# DVO diamond



## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Anyone looking forward for this fork? Im looking to replace my fox 34 next year on my mach 6. Tech sounds good, my friends love the emerald and jade on their dh bikes. 


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## SiSandroSi (Aug 27, 2013)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Anyone looking forward for this fork? Im looking to replace my fox 34 next year on my mach 6. Tech sounds good, my friends love the emerald and jade on their dh bikes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very much so. And while i should know better than buying a first generation product, I'm really tempted to preorder the Diamond. I like the OTT system over RS's way of adding tokens and the fact that it has externally adjustable high speed compression and provides easy access to the compression shim stack makes it a convincing package, at least conceptually.

The guys at DVO might stress this point a little too much, but they are not new to the suspension game and the fork is made by an experienced manufacturer.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, very much so.

Projected pricing is looking to be a bit more than a Pike in this country, but substantially less than a Fox, BOS or Marzocchi fork, it's going to be a pretty easy sell if it's as good as it looks.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

The green actually looks rad just hard to match up with my frame. 


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

SiSandroSi said:


> Very much so. And while i should know better than buying a first generation product, I'm really tempted to preorder the Diamond. I like the OTT system over RS's way of adding tokens and the fact that it has externally adjustable high speed compression and provides easy access to the compression shim stack makes it a convincing package, at least conceptually.
> 
> The guys at DVO might stress this point a little too much, but they are not new to the suspension game and the fork is made by an experienced manufacturer.


OTT is completely different than adding tokens. Adding tokens reduces spring volume to make a spring more progressive. OTT adds preload to the negative coil spring to adjust the coil to various rider weights and help small bump sensitivity.


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## SiSandroSi (Aug 27, 2013)

mullen119 said:


> OTT is completely different than adding tokens. Adding tokens reduces spring volume to make a spring more progressive. OTT adds preload to the negative coil spring to adjust the coil to various rider weights and help small bump sensitivity.


I know they are fundamentally different, but they are still two ways of modulating your spring curve.

I could never get the Pikes i tried to feel right when i experimented with tokens and air pressure- if i went for decent small bump sensitivity and the desired ramp up it would always be too wallowy in the mid stroke.

I haven't been on an OTT equipped fork yet, but if it is an effective way of influencing the beginning stroke while being able to run comparatively high pressures for a firmer mid stroke it would theoretically be pretty close to how i like my forks to feel.
With the dominance of air forks a lot of people seem to be counter acting a problem that lies in the spring curve by increasing compression damping.

Again, i haven't tried it yet, but it looks very intriguing on paper.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

SiSandroSi said:


> I know they are fundamentally different, but they are still two ways of modulating your spring curve.


You can also change the air volume on the Diamond by adding/removing oil in the air chamber, like on old Fox Floats.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Daxdagr8t said:


> The green actually looks rad just hard to match up with my frame.


It will be coming in black/black as well as green/black.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Fix the Spade said:


> It will be coming in black/black as well as green/black.


Sweet

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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Murdered out black even sweeter


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Just saw this. Hot damn!

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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

SiSandroSi said:


> I know they are fundamentally different, but they are still two ways of modulating your spring curve.
> 
> I could never get the Pikes i tried to feel right when i experimented with tokens and air pressure- if i went for decent small bump sensitivity and the desired ramp up it would always be too wallowy in the mid stroke.
> 
> ...


Just a suggestion. Set your air spring for sag, set the tokens for bottoming, and use the damper to tune out small bumps. Try setting the HSC stack to soft to handle chatter. If the HSC stack is already at the softest, try a lighter oil. You may need to reset the HSC stack when a lighter oil is used. The digressive effect of lighter oil is a good way to tue out harshness.


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## SiSandroSi (Aug 27, 2013)

Thanks bing, but I've only tested the Pike for several days and do not own one. The Pike doesn't have any external HSC adjustment though, don't you mean LSC since you are talking about small bumps and chatter?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

SiSandroSi said:


> Thanks bing, but I've only tested the Pike for several days and do not own one. The Pike doesn't have any external HSC adjustment though, don't you mean LSC since you are talking about small bumps and chatter?


the pike has a configurable shim stack, the manual will walk you through how to configure it. I meant hsc, which has to do with high speed hits like chatter. lsc is for holding the fork up against fork dive and pedal bob.

harshness is usually a spike in the initial stroke of the shock. the combination of the ports and the shims is possibly choking on the oil on high speed hits.

hope that helps.

edit: Ive confused the Boxxer's charger damper's shim stack adjustability with the Pikes. the Pike does not describe how to adjust the shim stack.

In this case, I would advise bleeding the charger damper and replacing the oil with one step down lighter viscosity to take out harshness. something like Torco RFF 5wt or equivalent. This is lighter than RS 3wt.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Anyone looking forward for this fork? Im looking to replace my fox 34 next year on my mach 6. Tech sounds good, my friends love the emerald and jade on their dh bikes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gonna dig up this old azz thread. I just bought a Diamond 27.5 from Jenson. Should take a couple weeks but I'm VERY excited to see this piece of kit. Pics and review to come...


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Well i got a 36 hehehe but there were tons of them last race in fontana. 


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Well i got a 36 hehehe but there were tons of them last race in fontana.


interesting... like, sponsored riders or most people went out and bought their own?

there's been very little noise on MTBR about this fork so I'm surprised that you saw a bunch of them.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Sponsored most of then on intense. A lot of riders used am bikes instead dh bikes and all of them ran dvo diamonds


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

ColinL said:


> interesting... like, sponsored riders or most people went out and bought their own?
> 
> there's been very little noise on MTBR about this fork so I'm surprised that you saw a bunch of them.


I've been looking every day to see when they went on sale. Jenson and CRC both listed them on Monday, and neither of them actually have any stock. Anyone out there riding the Diamond is factory supported.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> I've been looking every day to see when they went on sale. Jenson and CRC both listed them on Monday, and neither of them actually have any stock. Anyone out there riding the Diamond is factory supported.


Nah they have been on sale since jan. U just have to go through a lbs to get it ordered. I was on the waiting list on my lbs but decided to get a 36 intead.

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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

On paper it looks heavier than all competitors and it's more expensive than all except the Bos Deville and Float 36.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

ColinL said:


> On paper it looks heavier than all competitors and it's more expensive than all except the Bos Deville and Float 36.


Lbs quoted me $1100 for the diamond but i got my 36 float for $900

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## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

Its a sexy looking fork. Will 35mm stanchions be a happy medium? There is a guy on Ebay taking preorders for $999.99.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Yea it looks dope. Well the every other am forks are 35mm. I only got the 36 thinking ill never get a dh bike but i was wrong. Lol


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## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

The Jade Coil rear shock looks pretty nice to. Having both would make for a sick set up.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Cedric garcia runs that set up


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Nah they have been on sale since jan. U just have to go through a lbs to get it ordered. I was on the waiting list on my lbs but decided to get a 36 intead.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess my point was that nobody actually has them in stock. Meaning that anyone out there on one is factory supported.

On another note I got mine from Jenson with one of their 15% off codes, came out to $849


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> I guess my point was that nobody actually has them in stock. Meaning that anyone out there on one is factory supported.
> 
> On another note I got mine from Jenson with one of their 15% off codes, came out to $849


That is a pretty awesome deal

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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Mine will be here tuesday. Take the 36 off, transfer the crown race, and get it mounted up on my Mach 6. Hopefully get it out and about next weekend pending weather. Should be an interesting comparison.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Idaho said:


> Mine will be here tuesday. Take the 36 off, transfer the crown race, and get it mounted up on my Mach 6. Hopefully get it out and about next weekend pending weather. Should be an interesting comparison.


Damn post a pic. Yet to see a diamond on a mach 6

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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Mine will be here tuesday. Take the 36 off, transfer the crown race, and get it mounted up on my Mach 6. Hopefully get it out and about next weekend pending weather. Should be an interesting comparison.


Candid feedback will be very interesting, indeed.

Honestly, I will be very surprised if the DVO Diamond is an overall improvement from the 36, assuming you mean a 2015 Float 36. I could see it doing some things better and others not as well, and then riders may prefer one for or the other for those reasons.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Mine will be here tuesday. Take the 36 off, transfer the crown race, and get it mounted up on my Mach 6. Hopefully get it out and about next weekend pending weather. Should be an interesting comparison.


Where did you buy from? Jenson's saying they are expecting stock to arrive 5/15


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

We got our first in earlier this week. We'll be seeing more in a week or so.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> We got our first in earlier this week. We'll be seeing more in a week or so.


Damn, that's one sexy looking fork!


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Dirtmerchant: can you give us a scale shot? Also, I still have a wad of cash in my pocket for your first black one… Jensen still doesn't have any.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Max: Yep, I've got your name on a black/27.5"


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I got mine directly from DVO on a discount they give to military and got my name in the hat over 6 months ago to be on the preorder list with them. They had a few extra kicking around from the stock they brought back from overseas for sponsored riders and I got lucky to get one so early.

Here are the photos from today:























I only got about 3 miles in before I got a sidewall puncture and had to turn in for the day. At least I got in a few smaller jump lines, some rocks and plenty of roots. But here is what's what in my opinion.

The Diamond tracked better than any fork I have had over small trail chatter, successive roots, rocks, etc.... The OTT adjustment is pretty awesome. Additionally, the high speed compression hits I took today were managed very very well and the fork was extremely smooth. So far I would say it's easily better than my 36 RC2 in overall smoothness. I think the OTT feature greatly contributes to this. I am interested to see how it will fare in the long run and see if it is really this good or it's just the honeymoon phase at the moment.

Honestly right now it's making the Float X in the rear feel very underwhelming.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Looks awesome. I'm super stoked for this fork!


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Idaho said:


> I got mine directly from DVO on a discount they give to military and got my name in the hat over 6 months ago to be on the preorder list with them. They had a few extra kicking around from the stock they brought back from overseas for sponsored riders and I got lucky to get one so early.
> 
> Here are the photos from today:
> 
> ...


Time for a ccdb upgrade. That float x is really underperforming

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## jiker (Jul 2, 2004)

The fork Dirt Merchant posted above:

View attachment 985111


Here's my initial impressions (xpost from Knolly forum):
I haven't gotten the fork dialed yet, but the setup Ethan at Dirt Merchant did for me is certainly a good starting point. I was coming off a Lyrik, and I like my suspension supple with good ramp. The Diamond achieves this as is (much better midstroke), and I was able to crush the rocky technical section of trail I rode last night, but there's so much to play around with to get it set up perfectly, it's going to take a while. Right now, I can say its very smooth and supportive, but there is initial stiction when getting on the bike - once it's sagged, I dont feel it any more. The low speed compression is also very good - 6 settings: at 1 the fork will go into a full bob while pedal mashing, at 6 it's almost as stiff as the climb switch on the CCDBI, so great range there. I haven't played with the HSC yet. The rebound is just as effective as most forks. I'm really excited to tweak the balance of the fork pressure with the OTT though. I haven't played with it yet, but that's going to be the most interesting part - add enough pressure to sag properly, get the appropriate ramp, while being able to use all its travel, then dial in enough OTT to get the super smooth supple initial stroke. then just use the compression knobs to tame the ride where necessary. The only minor negative so far is there is a little bit of top out noise, but I think I got rid of most of it when I bumped up the rebound damping a click or two, so i'll keep my eye on it. I'll report back as I get more riding time.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

On your bit of stiction, get a q-tip and a little bit of fork oil and coat the stanchions lightly just above the seals. This is what DVO suggested to me when I was talking with them about initial setup and I have noticed no stiction at all on the fork.


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## jiker (Jul 2, 2004)

good tip, thanks! I'll do that before my next ride.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Idaho said:


> On your bit of stiction, get a q-tip and a little bit of fork oil and coat the stanchions lightly just above the seals. This is what DVO suggested to me when I was talking with them about initial setup and I have noticed no stiction at all on the fork.


that seems like really bad advice, to be honest. free oil on the stanchion will simply attract dirt. which of course will wear your stanchions and seals faster.

any stanchion treatment should be more like a polish and when it is wiped away there should be no residual liquid.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

ColinL said:


> that seems like really bad advice, to be honest. free oil on the stanchion will simply attract dirt. which of course will wear your stanchions and seals faster.
> 
> any stanchion treatment should be more like a polish and when it is wiped away there should be no residual liquid.


I figured the implied task was to then cycle the fork and wipe the excess oil off.... But yes, leaving extra oil on the fork will attract more dirt and lead to bad things.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Idaho said:


> But yes, leaving extra oil on the fork will attract more door


Not good.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

ColinL said:


> that seems like really bad advice, to be honest. free oil on the stanchion will simply attract dirt. which of course will wear your stanchions and seals faster.
> 
> any stanchion treatment should be more like a polish and when it is wiped away there should be no residual liquid.


That would be true if all forks didn't have dust wipers.


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## Colin+M (Feb 15, 2009)

Idaho said:


> I got mine directly from DVO on a discount they give to military and got my name in the hat over 6 months ago to be on the preorder list with them. They had a few extra kicking around from the stock they brought back from overseas for sponsored riders and I got lucky to get one so early.
> 
> Here are the photos from today:
> 
> ...


I'd send that Float X to Avalanche before I shelled out $$$ for a new DBair.


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## jiker (Jul 2, 2004)

Update after my first big ride on the Diamond and turning all its knobs:
This thing feels gooooood. Small bump compliance is awesome - cant wait to see what it will do on the brake bumps at the parks this summer. The bike feels very balanced with the CCDBI in the rear (although the CCDBI may need a volume ring - it's a tad soft and not as progressive as the Diamond). Stiffness, tracking and traction over all sorts of terrain was excellent - rocks, roots, sand, hardpack, babyheads, everything seemed easier (this was aided by the LB 38mm rims).

I had 2 nagging issues after my first impression posted above.
1) Stiction at the very top of the travel. I did as recommended here - fork oil on the stanchions, cycle the fork many times, wipe dry. This did not remedy the problem. I may have to talk to DVO on this. Again, it's only at the very top, once it's sagged, it's butter - I don't notice it at all on the trail, so it's not too big a deal.
2) Top out noise. This seems to have been a settings issue. after tweaking with the rebound and OTT, this went away.

The recommended settings in the manual were spot on for air pressure, compression, and rebound, but I currently have the OTT set to like 1 turn from max, which is like 3-4 full turns from the recommended value. I cranked it up to break the stiction but that was unsuccessful, and I didnt see any negative effects (reduced travel, etc), so i just left it there because it still felt good.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

GH28 said:


> That would be true if all forks didn't have dust wipers.


Say what?

Sticky, oil-impregnated dust is not good for stanchions. The wipers move it around.

It doesn't need to get past the dust seal to do damage to the fork. It's doing damage on the outside.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ColinL said:


> Say what?
> 
> Sticky, oil-impregnated dust is not good for stanchions. The wipers move it around.
> 
> It doesn't need to get past the dust seal to do damage to the fork. It's doing damage on the outside.


Agree


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

jiker said:


> Update after my first big ride on the Diamond and turning all its knobs:
> This thing feels gooooood. Small bump compliance is awesome - cant wait to see what it will do on the brake bumps at the parks this summer. The bike feels very balanced with the CCDBI in the rear (although the CCDBI may need a volume ring - it's a tad soft and not as progressive as the Diamond). Stiffness, tracking and traction over all sorts of terrain was excellent - rocks, roots, sand, hardpack, babyheads, everything seemed easier (this was aided by the LB 38mm rims).
> 
> I had 2 nagging issues after my first impression posted above.
> ...


Pull of the lowers be careful not to loose the oil (hold it in the correct angle).then take judy butter or something similar and lube the wipers from the inside.and if there are foam rings, check if they are well lubricated with oil. Many forks have too few or lack oil in tge stanchions completely.so ut could be possible here, too ;-)


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

For those looking to dial the tuning in a bit more with the fork, here are the highlights of my conversation with DVO today:

- Essentially use OTT as your LSC
- This means that the actual LSC knob is almost like a tune-able mid stroke. So crank it up for climbing, turn it back for trail. Hence the easily turnable knob.
- Start with less HSC than you think you need if any. The fork will break-in after several good rides and then adjust from there.

From these notes I've noticed how it relates with my experience. At least for me, I'll ride with the LSC in the "3" position and notice a distinct difference in moving from 3-4 where as you get that fine-tune adjustment with OTT. Also I am running the HSC compression open at the moment and have yet to bottom the fork out, but it's crazy how smooth the entire stroke has been so far. I'm not hucking huge drops, but 12 foot lip to landing doubles and 2-3 foot drop offs have yet to bottom this fork out for me.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm so excited about this fork, mine is in the mail and should be here on Monday!
I'll install it and snap a few pics and head out to break this mother in.
Updates to come!


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## Pelly_NH (Feb 15, 2005)

VitalMTB just posted a very positive review. The only thing that's bit disappointing (IMO) is the weight. With the Pike and the new Fox 34 being ~4lbs, seeing 4.8lbs takes this off my list. That's a good chunk of weight going up hills.

Really hope DVO does well with this though. Glad to see the original bomber crew back in the game.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Here is the link to the review:

DVO Diamond Fork - Reviews, Comparisons, Specs - Mountain Bike Forks - Vital MTB


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## BikeIntelligencer (Jun 5, 2009)

+1 went to their booth at Sea Otter. Impressive feeling fork but heavy and expensive. Plus way too much green, altho the black option fixes that.


ColinL said:


> On paper it looks heavier than all competitors and it's more expensive than all except the Bos Deville and Float 36.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

The weight is nothing compared to the performance across flat corners and off-camber and rough sections. Not even a close comparison to the other forks on the market which just bind like crazy in the same situations and become useless. Just did a 4000' climb on it coming off a Pike and didn't notice a thing while climbing except better tracking when pedaling up the loose gravely stuff.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Got mine yesterday. Build quality is top notch. The fork looks great in person. No stiction at all, but I do notice a slight top out knock when just pushing down and releasing. I didn't notice it while riding around on the street after installing it last night. I set it up with the DVO base tune for my weight. If the rain clears, hoping to ride today or tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to riding and tuning this fork.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Looks good. Got another several runs on jump lines today with mine and couldn't be happier! Also got several miles of trail in along with the jump lines and still great with successive bumps, ruts, roots and baby heads.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Mine showed up today, it's raining cats and dogs but I got the travel reduced to 140 and got it installed. The fork definitely looks and feels like a quality item! I'm excited to get out there and see how it compares to the PIKE it replaced. As far as the travel reduction it was pretty straightforward, though not as simple as like on the old fox vanillas for example. Totally manageable though


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Max, what bike is your Diamond installed on?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

661lee said:


> Max, what bike is your Diamond installed on?


SC Solo C


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)




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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

After reducing the travel to 140, the a2c is 531mm.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Your bike looks awesome, Max. :thumbsup:


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

661lee said:


> Your bike looks awesome, Max. :thumbsup:


Thanks man, yours too. You mentioned getting some different graphics- green would be sweet!


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Thinking about green, probably gonna try black though.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Even the fender is stylish.


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## giladgu (Jan 14, 2015)

in terms of stiffness, how does the diamond compare to the 36 or pike, or even the 34


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

WAY stiffer. The bushings are super loose in the Pikes which makes the noodle-y.


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

I got mine yesterday and took it for a ride on my local trails here in Norway. The conditions was extremly slippery with lots of rocks and roots.
There is only one thing to say: Love at first rockgarden! Started with base settings and it felt great right from the start. It blew my 2015 fox 36 out of the water! Looking forward to play with the settings and see how they work.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Awesome, nr7wave. I'm running the base tune as well. The Diamond is pretty amazing. I was on a Fox 34, and the Diamond is worlds better. Fore/aft stiffness is much better. Small bump compliance and mid-stroke support are so good. Oh, and it's smooth! Still waiting for the mud to dry out so that I can ride my really rocky and rooty trails. I'm going to experiment with a little less psi. So far I'm loving this fork.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm loving mine. I've since decided that my TBLTc with PIKE is out, and the Canfield Riot with Diamond is in. Don't get me wrong, the PIKE is a great fork, but just not quite up to the quality of the DVO.
Frame ships in August, should be built before the beginning of September!


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

nr7wave said:


> I got mine yesterday and took it for a ride on my local trails here in Norway. The conditions was extremly slippery with lots of rocks and roots.
> There is only one thing to say: Love at first rockgarden! Started with base settings and it felt great right from the start. It blew my 2015 fox 36 out of the water! Looking forward to play with the settings and see how they work.


I've got a Diamond on the way to me for the front of my Nomad. It was down to the DVO and the Fox 36, so I'm glad to hear that your stoked on the Diamond! I'm just curious in what ways in particular did the DVO perform better than the Fox?


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

It's not huge difference between the two forks. But the Diamond does everything a little bit better. Perhaps except for chassis stiffnes. Nothing beats the 36 in that department. I was out again yesterday and put to some more challenges. More roots and bigger rocks. A few small drops aswell. It is very composed all the time and I felt i could just increase my speed everywhere. I will be taking another ride on friday in more familiar terretories. I think there is a good chance that I will make some new Strava PR's.


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

Mine is sittin here since two days, but I can´t test it because the 15mm hub conversion kit is still missing


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

It just does everything the PIKE does, only better. I will say that the parking-lot stiction test makes the DVO seem not so plush but on the trail the stroke is super smooth and very controlled, much more so than the pike.


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. It makes me that much more excited for all my parts to arrive and for me to get my bike put together  Going for the DVO felt like a small risk relative to getting a known quantity like the Pike or the 36, but I kinda wanted to try something different... and it's a plus that its all black since I'm building up a matte black Nomad!

Sweet bike by the way! What shock are you running on the back?


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

I run the BOS S**toy with ti-coil. Fabulus shock, but it needs a service. My last trip out was with the new 2016 Fox float X2. First impressions are very good.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

nr7wave said:


> I run the BOS S**toy with ti-coil. Fabulus shock, but it needs a service. My last trip out was with the new 2016 Fox float X2. First impressions are very good.


X2 is out already?

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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Daxdagr8t said:


> X2 is out already?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I could get one tomorrow if I wanted it.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Rick Draper said:


> Yes. I could get one tomorrow if I wanted it.


How is it?

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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Daxdagr8t said:


> How is it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't have one as I have a ElevenSix but I was just saying I could get a Float DHX 2 if I wanted it


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Rick Draper said:


> I don't have one as I have a ElevenSix but I was just saying I could get a Float DHX 2 if I wanted it


Hahahaha aight. Interested in getting one

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I just bought a 2nd diamond in the 29er flavor for the Canfield Riot I'll be building up in August! So stoked on this fork.


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, the X2 is out allready. I got mine on thursday. First impressions are very good. No more mid-stroke wallow. It has very controlled damping. Very sensitiv in the first part of the stroke. Nothing near anything Fox has produced before.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

I've got a bit more riding time in on mine. I'm making small corrections with the OTT adjustment mostly. I may valve some HSC out of it at some point when it needs service but it's pretty golden for now.

I'm still blown away by the bushing smoothness. The 29/160 version should be the most prone to bushing bind out of any configuration just because of the leverage placed on them, but they're flawless. I just don't think about the fork on the bike now (E29) because it just does the same thing in every situation. Can't say that about the Pike it replaced.


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

Had my first real ride on the fork yesterday. Since I´ve never ridden a Pike or a current 36, I can´t compare it to those, but I own heavyly modded Lyrik and an Avalanche Boxxer. Since my Lyrik has a similar weight, and with it´s 170mm travel nearly the stack hight, I didn´t notice any difference in the balance of the bike. I´m still on my 26" wheels...

First impressions: I rode it with 125psi and 8full turns OTT wich gave me about 20% sag, 2 clicks lsc, 3 clicks hsc and 12 clicks lsr. With this setup the fork is super sensitive!!! 
Noway near any other fork I´ve ever ridden but given that the amount of OTT I´m using is outside the recommended maximum for my chosen pressure, there may be downsides that I haven´t noticed yet?!
The midstroke support is still far better than my stock Lyrik was. I used about 13cm to 14cm travel on a fast, medium rough trail. When I tried take a stone section as a step down and didn`made it, I used about 15cm travel on a scary impact. So it seams that the fork is gets fairly progressive at the end of its travel. Since I payed for 16cm of travel, I will try it with lower pressure and less OTT next time.

All in all, the fork feals verry composed and the amount of traction it provides is remarkable!

What`s a bit strange, is a "klonk" sound and a kind of hard feeling every time the fork tops out. I haven`t noticed something like that on any other fork till now. Additional, when the fork is fully extended, there is a verry small but noticable amount (noticable only in a parking lot test) of breakaway force. The strange thing about this is, that it doesen´t really feel like seal stiction or something like that and it occours only on the verry first mm of the travel. After that the fork cycles absolutly free and verry, verry smooth.
The combination of this topout noise and the stiction makes me think that it has something to do with the end-stop of the air piston?!


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

I heard/felt the "klonk" on mine as well. 2 more clicks of rebound damping and it doesn't do it anymore. I suggest you try adding some rebound damping on yours and see if it helps. Your excessive amount of OTT might be a contributer as well, but I'm just speculating on that one.


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

Mmmmhh....I would say that the OTT works in the opposite direction and should therefore smoothen the topout but I´ll give it a try...

As for the rebound...I´ll have to play with this setting also, but as the traction was so well, I´ll rather keep my settings instead of hesitating about the "klonk". The klonk-thing is only worrying me because the combination of the klonk and the stiction lets mi think that maybe there is a mechanical issue, like a missing bumper or something like that?!
Does yours also have this stiction?

Can you post your settings aswell?


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

I weigh close to 190 lbs ready to ride, so I went with the base settings in the manual for 180-199 lbs. I started with 128 psi, 6 rotations of OTT, HSC 2, LSC 1, Rebound 8. I tried 8 rotations of OTT, and it felt kind of weird, like the wheel was loose. I went back to 6. Yesterday, I lowered the psi to 125 and it felt the same way. I think it's just so sensitive that it freaked me out.  I'm gonna up the Rebound damping a little and see how that feels. Also, I checked my fork for that initial stiction you mentioned and mine does do that. Not sure what it is, but it doesn't bother me. Once it breaks through that the first time, it's butter smooth. I'm very impressed with the Diamond so far.


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

I´m between 165lbs and 170lbs with gear and 125psi to 135psi depanding on which pump I use (their scales differ a lot) so that may be the reason why I need "so much" OTT to achive proper sag?!
But as I said above, I will try less pressure and less OTT to achive more usable travel.

You are absolutly right! The initial stiction is no issue in terms of riding performance, but I´m still wondering where it comes from. It feels a bit like something is pinched in full top-out position?! As the damper-rod naturally has more travel than the spring-rod, my guess is, that it has something to do with the spring cartidge, but thats pure guessing...
When the its time to do the first service, I will solve this question and till now I will just enjoy the ride


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## subydoo (Feb 17, 2005)

*Diamond on SB6*

Just mounted the Diamond on my SB6, sure feels nice. Only a short ride, but it feels better than my 2015 36 just using base settings. Stoked!!

Only nit to pick is that there is no travel O-ring on the stanchion?? Did anybody get an O-ring? not the end of the world for sure, and an easy enough fix, but did not intend to tear it down right away!!


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

The green Diamond looks good! No travel o-ring on mine or my friend's Diamonds. The manual even shows it and calls it a sag o-ring.


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## Grizzy (Sep 12, 2009)

So most are running LSC at 2 clicks from open - in other words there's 6 more clicks of LSC to slow it down? 

Ive got a 2015 36 and I've got LSC maxed and can barely tell the difference between full closed and full open. its just WAY underdamped for working the bike in the rough - forkking dangerous...

Can the diamond get nice and stiff while still having a normal spring rate and some sag


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

661lee said:


> The green Diamond looks good! No travel o-ring on mine or my friend's Diamonds. The manual even shows it and calls it a sag o-ring.


Mine came with "sag o-ring".


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## jiker (Jul 2, 2004)

Grizzy said:


> So most are running LSC at 2 clicks from open - in other words there's 6 more clicks of LSC to slow it down?
> 
> Ive got a 2015 36 and I've got LSC maxed and can barely tell the difference between full closed and full open. its just WAY underdamped for working the bike in the rough - forkking dangerous...
> 
> Can the diamond get nice and stiff while still having a normal spring rate and some sag


There are 6 clicks of LSC in total, so if you run 2 from open, you have 4 left. And there is huge range even though there is only 6 positions - 1 gives you full plushness with some brake dive if you aren't watching your weight shifts. 2-3 is good to counter the brake dive while still being plush enough. 4-5 is decent for trail riding where you don't want to play with the knob very much, and 6 is like the climb switch on the CCDB - very little movement to any rider induced feedback, but still can soak up square edges at speed.

I generally keep mine between 2-4 depending on the terrain i'm riding. but will switch it to 6 for long climbs and 1 for long descents. Works better than any other fork I've tried (RS/Fox). And this is completely independent from the pressure/sag and OTT, so they did a great job isolating the settings.

Mine also did not come with the sag ring.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I spoke with the guys at DVO quite a bit about the compression settings on the fork and here is how it broke down in the most basic way to me.

Use OTT as the start of your low speed compression settings. 

Consider the low speed compression as a mid-stroke support / climb mode on 6

Adjust HSC accordingly but generally it will take quite a few hours to break in and give you need to add 1 or 2 clicks of HSC.

Hope that helps, maybe not....?


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## Sylvan.Being (May 28, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Use OTT as the start of your low speed compression settings.
> 
> Consider the low speed compression as a mid-stroke support / climb mode on 6
> 
> Hope that helps, maybe not....?


I'm confused as to how you would use the OTT as a low speed compression setting. Is the idea that more OTT = a more supple and plush, but more prone to diving fork; kind of like having less low speed compression dialled in? Therefore less OTT = a more supportive, but less supple fork; as in having more low speed compression?

I guess it makes a degree of sense, but it seems like a strange way to think about it as I thought the point of the OTT was more about giving riders some control over progression somewhat similar to using tokens in a 36 or a Pike...


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

The OTT controls how supple the fork is in the top 2" of travel. It does not have an impact on progression.


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## mantra (Feb 28, 2006)

661lee said:


> The OTT controls how supple the fork is in the top 2" of travel. It does not have an impact on progression.


With a lot of OTT, you can use more pressure (to achive a proper sag) which results in more progression...


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## mehukatti (Sep 21, 2005)

I have two rides on the Diamond and I have to say it feels really good. It's really plush and smooth, and there's almost zero stiction. It doesn't require much force to get it moving when OTT has been dialed in to optimal setting. I think in this respect it is even better than Pike. And its damping feels more sophisticated and controlled than Pike, and more importantly Diamond has better adjustability with separate low and high speed adjusters. I think this fork is a winner especially with the price hike of 2016 Pike in Europe which makes it the same price as Diamond. I even view the slightly higher weight positively because Pike is maybe too light for hard riding. We have fast enduro guys here that have destroyed Pike's bushings in a few months and many have problems with creaking uppers. And the bushings can't be changed, you have to buy new lowers for 300€ if one year warranty is over. If Diamond proves to be more durable then the slightly increased weight is actually a good thing, imo.


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## rhynohead (Jun 4, 2009)

Keep the reviews coming on the Diamond guys. Looking at a new build and searching for a fork. So many good forks out now, but I'm intrigued w the diamond and will probably go this route. But no frame yet, so taking my time researching


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I think I might go with a little less OTT on mine, every now and then the fork will hang up on square-edged bumps because it goes so easily into its travel. I think maybe adding a little more firmness to the top of the stroke will help the wheel up and over. I'll let you know how that goes. 

On another note, I just bought a 2nd Diamond, this time in green for my 29er build


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I spoke with the guys at DVO quite a bit about the compression settings on the fork and here is how it broke down in the most basic way to me.
> 
> Use OTT as the start of your low speed compression settings.
> 
> ...


 I only have three rides on mine & this seems to be the way to go.
Went down a trail today that was logged half way into it . Decided rather than walk back up to just pick a random line through the debris. I was really expecting an endo over the bars but was pleasantly surprised how I managed to stay on, mid stroke support & control was very good.
I also have an Avy Pike (full oil bath) , still early days but I think the Diamond could be the better fork . I know I still need to do a lot more miles to really compare them fairly.
I don't have any initial stiction like some others it's just smooth & controlled all the way.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

geo025 said:


> I only have three rides on mine & this seems to be the way to go.
> Went down a trail today that was logged half way into it . Decided rather than walk back up to just pick a random line through the debris. I was really expecting an endo over the bars but was pleasantly surprised how I managed to stay on, mid stroke support & control was very good.
> I also have an Avy Pike (full oil bath) , still early days but I think the Diamond could be the better fork . I know I still need to do a lot more miles to really compare them fairly.
> I don't have any initial stiction like some others it's just smooth & controlled all the way.


Yeah the second diamond I bought which was from a later production run has a lot more oil on and around the wipers, and seems to have less stiction


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

what's the tire clearance on the Diamond like?
would the 29er take a B+ tire, 27.5x3.0 or 27.5x3.25?


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Is it best to follow the DVO set up instructions or have you found through experience any differences from what DVO suggests?

Cheers


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

loamranger said:


> Is it best to follow the DVO set up instructions or have you found through experience any differences from what DVO suggests?
> 
> Cheers


Yes. Start with DVO's recommendations, they are very good. I've tweaked my settings a little bit, but I'm still within their recommended tuning range. Obviously, you will want to experiment a little with rebound damping and the OTT settings to see what suits you and your terrain.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

661lee said:


> Yes. Start with DVO's recommendations, they are very good. I've tweaked my settings a little bit, but I'm still within their recommended tuning range. Obviously, you will want to experiment a little with rebound damping and the OTT settings to see what suits you and your terrain.


Thanks. Hope I like it.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

savo said:


> what's the tire clearance on the Diamond like?
> would the 29er take a B+ tire, 27.5x3.0 or 27.5x3.25?


Got about 6mm clearance with a 2.35 HD, if that helps. So tighter than the Pike.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Man there just isn't a lot out there on these things. I'm looking to replace my 2011 Float36 rc2 with one of these in the next few months.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Do it. You will not be disappointed.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> Man there just isn't a lot out there on these things. I'm looking to replace my 2011 Float36 rc2 with one of these in the next few months.


Just do it.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

mehukatti said:


> I have two rides on the Diamond and I have to say it feels really good. It's really plush and smooth, and there's almost zero stiction. It doesn't require much force to get it moving when OTT has been dialed in to optimal setting. I think in this respect it is even better than Pike. And its damping feels more sophisticated and controlled than Pike, and more importantly Diamond has better adjustability with separate low and high speed adjusters. I think this fork is a winner especially with the price hike of 2016 Pike in Europe which makes it the same price as Diamond. I even view the slightly higher weight positively because Pike is maybe too light for hard riding. We have fast enduro guys here that have destroyed Pike's bushings in a few months and many have problems with creaking uppers. And the bushings can't be changed, you have to buy new lowers for 300€ if one year warranty is over. If Diamond proves to be more durable then the slightly increased weight is actually a good thing, imo.


I agree with your comments.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

rhynohead said:


> Keep the reviews coming on the Diamond guys. Looking at a new build and searching for a fork. So many good forks out now, but I'm intrigued w the diamond and will probably go this route. But no frame yet, so taking my time researching


There are some good choices now: DVO, 36 and BOS FCV would be on my list.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

661lee said:


> Do it. You will not be disappointed.


I'm not dissappointed, prefer to my Pike. I have not tried a 36 yet, that's supposed to be really good too.

DVO are coming out with 650b 110 and 650b plus sizes.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Went to Beech Mountain yesterday and did some lift service on my Diamond. Ran everything from the basic line to the pro DH course on it and it performed quite well. 

The biggest thing with this fork is knowing how to tune it and what the adjustments do. This fork has so much that can be done with it, it might feel like crap if you are twisting knobs and not fully understanding how they relate to one another and trail conditions. At least for me, the first time I rode it on the suggested settings it was good. But now that I have more time on it and have changed a bit, it feels much better.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Went to Beech Mountain yesterday and did some lift service on my Diamond. Ran everything from the basic line to the pro DH course on it and it performed quite well.
> 
> The biggest thing with this fork is knowing how to tune it and what the adjustments do. This fork has so much that can be done with it, it might feel like crap if you are twisting knobs and not fully understanding how they relate to one another and trail conditions. At least for me, the first time I rode it on the suggested settings it was good. But now that I have more time on it and have changed a bit, it feels much better.


Just for posterity...
Could you tell us what precisely you thought needed inprovement and what adjustments you made to get the sweet spot?

I'm running a tiny bit less OTT then recommended and a few less PSI. 
I did this because I found that when climbing, the bike would kind of hang up on bigger bumps because the fork was so plush. I think another way to deal with this problem is to run more OTT but use the LSC knob as a climb switch. I prefer a fork I can have one good setting and leave it rather than twist knobs depending on the terrain. I just find that I get lazy or forget to open up the LSC before a downhill.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Max,

As always, personal preference is the key here. From initial settings, I ended up adding up to 2 full turns of OTT to soften the fork up, so 12 clicks. I ride on a 2-3 LSC and a couple clicks of HSC. 

From speaking with the DVO guys, what they said has proven true (at least for me so far) with tuning the fork. And that is to think of OTT as not only initial sensitivity but also as your base LSC. Use the LSC knob as your "mid valve" so to speak. So crank to to 5-6 for climbing then back to whatever your flavor is for the rest. Then of course your HSC for high shaft speed hits, such as large drops, square hits, or braking bumps at speed.

Basically think of OTT as the beginning of the compression stroke and how soft you want that to be. Then think of the LSC knob as how firm you want the fork to be after it passes through the OTT zone. So in relation to fork shaft speed, OTT for slow/small bits, LSC for medium shaft speed hits, then HSC for the fast.

Lastly rebound, this is entirely personal preference. But also don't forget that as you tweak compression knobs, you may need to adjust your rebound to match. Additionally, many forget that the more air they add to the air spring, the more rebound that puts into the system so in-turn, more rebound damping is needed to compensate and keep the same feeling in the fork.

Hope all that makes sense....?


One factor to consider is also your rear shock. If that is out of balance it will almost always make your front end feel like crap. After getting my X2 put on my bike, it's feeling mint front and rear and balanced for a change versus chasing settings trying to get the front and back to place nice together.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Awesome, thanks for sharing. I kind of had imagined using the LSC as a platform, maybe I'll give that a try with a little more OTT.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Is the consensus that this fork is better than the new 36's? I have found that I prefer it to the Pike in 29er flavour.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I had one of the new 36's before the diamond. I do think it's a little better simply due to the OTT feature. Just having that to dial in all aspects of the compression stroke makes the difference to me. 

However in the defense of the 36, I only got about 5-6 rides on the 36 before swapping it out for the diamond so I never got it really reminded.


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## homey (May 24, 2004)

Just did my first ride on my new Diamond yesterday and I am impressed. I have it mounted on my hard tail 29er and running it at 140mm. I did a bit of tuning but got too excited to ride and just took it out without having everything set up super dialed. Whatever I did didn't ruin it too much because I had a blast on it. Reminds me a lot of the 140mm Pike on my Ibis but it's cool knowing that the DVO has more potential in it after I get to tweaking it a bit more. Overall, based on one ride, I can tell its at least as good as the Pike. Time will ultimately tell I guess though...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Anyone try fitting a Minion 2.5 in the 29er version? Will it fit?


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## mjb123 (May 6, 2011)

anyone know about the oil spec's and volumes for the diamonds. I have had mine since they first came out and was thinking of an oil change but am not sure what to buy.


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

I just upgraded the fork on my Nickel, from a Marzocchi 44 to a DVO Diamond.

Living close enough to DVO, I visited Ronnie and had him reduce the travel to 140mm. In the process, he dialed the settings based on a few comments. I like my suspension kushy.

My DH bike is out of commission as I rebuild the rear wheel, so what better way to inaugurate the new fork than taking it on a crazy downhill run for some shocking and gnarling?

Granted, this trail is more of a ride for survival than testing suspension, it certainly put the fork through it's paces. Shoulder high drops, jumps, boulders, steep loose sand, baby heads and corners.

Overall, the fork inspired much more confidence than the 44. Huge improvement on rigidity and ride height. The Diamond rides higher and doesn't dive like the 44. Tighter tolerances in the bushings of the DVO make the fork feel really solid without that typical clunk clunk. The DVO is just solid.

Suspension was butter straight out the box, but Ronnie put some extra sauce on the seals when he had it apart. Not changing a thing after Ronnie set up the fork, the suspension was super buttery and responsive. Feels really smooth over the loose baby heads. The fork felt great on the drops, too. 

Obviously, it's only 140mm and no DH fork, you can feel that, but the fork is a staunch SOB and feels ready for anything.

I will post pics later and update my thoughts as I get some more rides on the fork. So far, I'm really happy with the purchase.

Oh, and I should mention that the metallic lime green looks awesome in the sun! It takes me waaay back to my first real suspension fork, the metallic lime green Marzocchi Bomber Z2, 3" fork that started it all back in the 90's. It's a fitting color for the Marzocchi crew that founded DVO.


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

In case anybody is wondering, this is the green Marzocchi Z2 Bam, I was referring to in the above text. Not my bike not my pic.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Anyone try fitting a Minion 2.5 in the 29er version? Will it fit?


Barely clears the arch, 4-5mm, haven't checked it at full compression to check clearance on the crown. Fender rubs if its on. Haven't ridden it yet, wouldn't work on muddy trails but I may try it on a dry day - really like the tire.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

*Minion Clearance*

4-5mm Diamond. 9-10mm Pike.
Crown clears fine on DVO fork, going on the bike this weekend.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yeah, pretty much at the min


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Damn you mtbr uploader


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Haven't ridden it yet. Any issue with flex causing knob buzz? Planning to run it for a while any way since it's already on the Derby.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Flex is not going to cause tire buzz, there's plenty of clearance, at least with 30mm rims. In my experience carbon rims are very stiff anyway. The min clearance for the vertical is so when you bottom out, and the bottom of the tire compresses, and the top bulges, that the tire won't jam on the fork and throw you, which would end up badly due to all the forces and speed involved.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

So how can you tell you're not below the minimum clearance without going OTB? Looks like you've been riding it, 4mm enough? I like the tire a lot but would probably be happy with the 2.3 as well.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TheCanary said:


> So how can you tell you're not below the minimum clearance without going OTB? Looks like you've been riding it, 4mm enough? I like the tire a lot but would probably be happy with the 2.3 as well.


It's in the manual, 6mm.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Cool. Good to have a number. So, you not going to run the 2.5 on the Diamond then?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TheCanary said:


> Cool. Good to have a number. So, you not going to run the 2.5 on the Diamond then?


Here's what DVO said about it:



> Hi James,
> 
> A 2.5 tire is cutting it close but we have had several people run this size tire with a Diamond. Officially we can recommend a 2.35 to 2.40 tire. Since each tire manufactuer might differ slightly the only thing I can recommend is trying the 2.5 tire and make sure there is enough side clearance incase there is flex in the wheel.
> 
> ...


I'm running it because I have about 5mm vertical, so I think it's probably close enough. The minion 2.5 though is kind of the gold standard, to see the fork is not really designed with this in mind is disappointing. They run kind of small for 2.5s, but the widest wide rims are probably pushing them out quite a bit I'd imagine. There's plenty of side-to-side clearance on my build and I have a pretty stiff wheelset. The stock wheelset on my bike was like a noodle though, rear would rub the frame.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Yeah, side clearance looks fine and the Derby's are plenty stiff so I'll "run wut I brung" for now. Agree, a little disappointed with the clearance, probably have to find another fork if I want to play the 27.5+ game for this fall/winter.


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

Does anyone have any ride time on a diamond and a mattoc? Im curious how they compare in dampening and stiffness.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Enduro 29er, sweet setting for the Diamond on harder charging rough trails is a tad lower springrate (I'm running 115-120psi at 185-190# in gym clothes), and around 3 on LSC, medium OTT and normal rebound and HSC. Isn't AS plush on the first hit in a row as it would be with the 1 LSC setting, but through repeated deep hits the bike becomes way more stable.


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## Royale_With_Cheese (Feb 14, 2014)

Great discussion, guys. Ive got a 2016 Slash 8 Im setting up for a burly AM/DH rig. Im between the Diamond and the new RS Lyrik. Thoughts on 160-170mm set ups?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Royale_With_Cheese said:


> Great discussion, guys. Ive got a 2016 Slash 8 Im setting up for a burly AM/DH rig. Im between the Diamond and the new RS Lyrik. Thoughts on 160-170mm set ups?


Pretty sure 160 is tha max for the Diamond. At that travel setting it looks kinda spindly IMO, so if you're a bigger rider and/or are truly running DH I'd go with a 36. Just my opinion, but it seems like the fork is more geared as a beefy trail fork or true all mountain.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

So this thing isn't up to chasing gravity at the bike park? Ehh that stinks, guess I need to look into other forks. My bike will see bike park use and DH use and I'm like 235 ready to ride.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

dirtrider76 said:


> So this thing isn't up to chasing gravity at the bike park? Ehh that stinks, guess I need to look into other forks. My bike will see bike park use and DH use and I'm like 235 ready to ride.


It'll hold up, just might not be the best choice.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Yeah, I've been to Beech Mtn a couple times this year and their rock gardens are no joke. I had zero issue with flex in the fork and once I got the settings right compression wise, the fork was great over everything that the mountain had to offer from the green run to the pro DH course. The only thing holding me back was my ability and a wheel set I ended up making rotate in the shape of an S.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I had 100psi set when I got to the park, I was totally impressed with the way the fork handled the chunder, the faster I rode, the more it smoothed it out, felt well damped. 

Went off a jump, checked travel, was using ALL of it. Upped PSI by 10. Rode some more, lost a bit of the compliance from before, went off a drop, bottomed it noticably. Tried more HSC, noticed it turned the ride more into a jackhammer, backed it out, increased PSI by 10 again. This changed the ride again, by making it harsher, although not too terrible, but that "better as you go faster" feeling was gone. At this PSI it kind of sucks on any slower stuff and for trail riding. Although I understand stiffening it a bit for DH, I can't seem to get great compliance past the OTT travel AND still have it resist bottoming. Seems overdamped on HSC and maybe on HSR, but if it would just resist bottoming better, that would make me pretty happy. I'm not talking about dive and chassis movement, I'm talking about drops and jumps, not crazy hard, just what I'd consider moderate and where you should be able to set the fork up for a pretty good compromise. 

It's not junk or horrible, but it doesn't seem to like our roots on the 2K descent I did on Sunday, it was just not possible to get it very compliant, I emailed DVO, but they have about a 2 week turn-around on emails based on my last one. 

J


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## Royale_With_Cheese (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. Might have to go with the Lyrik.


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## lakekeman (Sep 12, 2008)

Jayem, you just need more progression in the air spring. You can add oil to the air chamber to decrease air volume.
So you can ride your smooth setting and have bottom out protection.

I would prefer this fork to the Lyrik for sure. Best feeling "enduro" fork on the market, imo. I have no problems running it in the bikepark, stiffness is fine and damping is outstanding.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Jayem,

Have you also tried messing with the OTT and low speed compression while changing those settings? Remember that as you add more air to the air chamber you are also needing additional rebound damping as well as the fork will spring back faster. Additionally, the low-speed knob is essentially a mid-stroke damping I've found and acts as the intermediate between the OTT and HSC.

OTT has a huge range of adjustment and can make that initial stroke much better, but it's almost like building layers. Dial in air pressure. Adjust OTT to make the initial stroke feel like what you want. Use LSC as your mid-stroke for braking smaller braking bumps and general terrain. Then finish with HSC for large hits, bigger braking bumps, and high-speed impacts. Hope that will help...?

I've been really happy with mine with everything from regular trail riding to bike park bits but maybe I am just riding some less gnarly or technical things than you are. Below is a video of some of the stuff I have ridden on the diamond (video isn't of me, just Beech Mountain in general).


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

THis is exactly what I thought. If you have a smaller volume air chamber, it will ramp up faster. This will allow you to ride with the PSI you prefer without having harsh bottoming.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Idaho said:


> Jayem,
> 
> Have you also tried messing with the OTT and low speed compression while changing those settings? Remember that as you add more air to the air chamber you are also needing additional rebound damping as well as the fork will spring back faster. Additionally, the low-speed knob is essentially a mid-stroke damping I've found and acts as the intermediate between the OTT and HSC.
> 
> ...


Yes, of course. The OTT can make the first 2" pretty nice, but transitioning to the rest of the travel ends up pretty harsh, especially at the higher PSIs.

I've literally tried every setting to try and get it to "break away" to high speed damping as easily as my pike does.

I'm not sure using the OTT as "LSC" is exactly valid. With traditional LSC, you can increase the damping to add more stability and adjust the high speed "knee", forcing more oil into the high speed circuit when it opens on a sharp hit. The OTT seems to just allow you to make the initial travel softer, which isn't really the same thing. Increasing actual LSC adds more resistance to dive and gives a little stability, but it doesn't take much on this fork, settings like 4-5 are usually much to harsh for most riding.

I'll try the oil level, it wasn't exactly something I could do on the mountain over the weekend, but it doesn't seem to be as well advertised as the other features.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Jayem said:


> I'll try the oil level, it wasn't exactly something I could do on the mountain over the weekend, but it doesn't seem to be as well advertised as the other features.


It's not advertised because it's not a new or unique feature, just one of the basic fundamentals of suspension tuning.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

max_lombardy said:


> It's not advertised because it's not a new or unique feature, just one of the basic fundamentals of suspension tuning.


Not exactly, many forks can not be adjusted in this way anymore, not really since the old full-oil-bath Marzocchis has this been "standard". Don't try this on a Pike, Fox or other modern fork, unless the manual explicitly says it's a tuning parameter.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Not exactly, many forks can not be adjusted in this way anymore, not really since the old full-oil-bath Marzocchis has this been "standard". Don't try this on a Pike, Fox or other modern fork, unless the manual explicitly says it's a tuning parameter.


you're right, adding oil in the positive chamber is not a good idea if the fork has a self-equalizing negative air spring (Pike, new fox 36&34...).

if the negative spring is a coil spring instead, like in the Diamond, oil in the air chamber should be nice.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I'll be interested to hear how this turns out. Hope it works for you as I've just been fortunate enough to only need to turn some knobs to get it feeling right where I'd like it.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

*Paid Spam*

http://http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=99871&title=dvo-diamond-29er-fork-140-160&cat=8


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## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

I have a few questions about the fork...

1. The HSC recommendation for my weight only recommends 2-4 clicks, but the knob is capable of much more than that... What is the point of all the extra beyond the recommended settings? What will I notice?

2. I do not need to service my fork now, but I noticed there are no videos or manuals on DVO's website, it just says "coming soon". Is there a different place to look?

Thanks in advance!


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

No other place to look for service videos that I know of, but there is a video for travel adjust which shows how to remove the lowers.


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## Palirojo (Sep 27, 2006)

Just got done with my second ride on the diamond and wanted to share my thoughts for those considering this fork. Previous fork was a manitou mattoc expert 27.5 and I had about 15 rides on that. I really liked the mattocs performance but swapped it out after having some QC issues with Manitou. Manitou's customer service is awesome but Im OCD about stuff and wanted piece of mind, plus found a great deal on a diamond, so I went for it. Bike is a black market roam 160mm travel with DVO jade on the rear.









Initial impressions off the bike were that the diamond is heavier but also stouter than the mattoc. Axle to crown and offset should be the same for both forks.

On the trail, it is awesome! The small bump sensitivity is impressive and was immediately noticeable in comparison to the mattoc. The other most noticeable difference is just a general feeling of improved confidence. Not sure if it is an increase in sensitivity, stiffness, dampening or what but I can run into sections much more aggressively now and I found myself looking for the more challenging lines for the fun of it.

Low speed range seems about the same between the two

High speed and rebound adjustment range is much better on the diamond. I never found myself wishing for more high speed dampening on the mattoc but I did want more rebound tunability (expert only has 4 positions of rebound adjusment).

The mattoc's axle is easier to remove and install (if you care about these things).

In conclusion, I would say they are both great forks but the diamond is going to be staying on the bike because it makes riding more fun.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

lakekeman said:


> Jayem, you just need more progression in the air spring. You can add oil to the air chamber to decrease air volume.
> So you can ride your smooth setting and have bottom out protection.


It looks like this would have to be done by removing the air cartridge, opening up the bottom by putting it in a shock vise and using the pin-spanners to open it, or by removing the valve core and possibly using a syringe or something similar. Given the lack of response by DVO, the lack of total information on it, and the difficulty by which you'd go about doing it (not impossible, but not just opening a top cap and pouring oil in), I'm not doing this for now. It doesn't seem to be an intended tuning parameter.

The thing is, when I get the fork feeling pretty nice, like now, it's because I've cranked the OTT past recommended, which seems to overpower the "step" I was getting as the fork was soft on some initial travel and then kind of hitting a wall, and it's at a pressure where I use all of my travel off of a moderate 4 foot drop. Not to a real nice transition, but not to flat either. Would like to see it around 1/2" of full travel with the same bump compliance, but doesn't seem possible.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm surprised DVO didn't respond to you. Did you try calling them?

I got emails back from Ronnie within a few hours on weekdays when I first was trying to get mine set up.


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## rehammer81 (Jun 18, 2010)

They have probably been busy with Eurobike and gotten a little behind in responding.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Palirojo said:


> Just got done with my second ride on the diamond and wanted to share my thoughts for those considering this fork. Previous fork was a manitou mattoc expert 27.5 and I had about 15 rides on that. I really liked the mattocs performance but swapped it out after having some QC issues with Manitou. Manitou's customer service is awesome but Im OCD about stuff and wanted piece of mind, plus found a great deal on a diamond, so I went for it. Bike is a black market roam 160mm travel with DVO jade on the rear.
> 
> View attachment 1012042
> 
> ...


I CANNOT COMMENT ON THE DIAMON IN GENERAL, unfortunately have not ridden one yet. But why are some people so fed up with the mattocs axle? It´s so easy to use. How can some people even put their clothes on every morning when they are not up to such a simple task? 
Do you still have it as spare or have you already sold it? Can give you a simple advice ;-)


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> I CANNOT COMMENT ON THE DIAMON IN GENERAL, unfortunately have not ridden one yet. But why are some people so fed up with the mattocs axle? It´s so easy to use. How can some people even put their clothes on every morning when they are not up to such a simple task?
> Do you still have it as spare or have you already sold it? Can give you a simple advice ;-)


Actually, I think he likes the Mattoc axle! But I hate it, so what is the advice?


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

I got a good deal, so I picked up a Diamond for my upcoming carbon Warden build


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Nice one!
I got one in green 29er flavor for a Honzo build I'm working on.
Here's my other one:


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

does anyone elses one make a rattle/clicking noise in the first part of the travel, as if its starting moving through the OTT onto the air?

I dont notice anything when ridding rough stuff, but over fast small stuff it had me wondering if my headset had come loose?


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, and I think it is quite common. The rattle get worse the more OTT you use. I have complained about it to my dealer, but they have yet to come up with a solution. 

Sent fra min E6553 via Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Hmm. Never noticed it, but I don't use a ton of OTT. even so this is still the best fork I've ever used


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

I have noticed that the rattle is more dominant at the start of a ride. After a while it gets less noisy. I Wonder if it has something to do with the oil in the fork leg dampen the noise when it's spread around after a while. I think I will try to add som more oil in the leg and see if it helps. The damping side of the fork is perfect!

Sent fra min E6553 via Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

max_lombardy said:


> Hmm. Never noticed it, but I don't use a ton of OTT. even so this is still the best fork I've ever used


Curious why you say it's the "best fork"? I've sent an email to DVO and I'm trying to understand why I have the issues I have. Could you explain what makes it so good? The main issue I have is through rough and choppy terrain, the fork is very harsh, this is with 5-7 turns of OTT. The high speed damping seems to ricochet off of impacts, rather than absorb them. Low speed stability is fine, but I've tried everything I can think of and the only thing that helps (but doesn't make it go away) is to lower the pressure, but then it bottoms easily. The fork is ok on smooth park stuff, but any roots or rocks and it seems to react poor. What makes it better than your other fork experiences (this may help me sort out my issues)?

I get the rattle too, it's most pronounced when starting or the fork hasn't been cycled for a while.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Jayem, what is your HSC set to?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

661lee said:


> Jayem, what is your HSC set to?


0 to 2 clicks. I've tried as much as 8 or so, but it seems to work "best" around 2, which is close to/same as the suggested setting. Gets a lot harsher overall with much more HSC. I usually have it set on 2LSC 2HSC.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Curious why you say it's the "best fork"? I've sent an email to DVO and I'm trying to understand why I have the issues I have. Could you explain what makes it so good? The main issue I have is through rough and choppy terrain, the fork is very harsh, this is with 5-7 turns of OTT. The high speed damping seems to ricochet off of impacts, rather than absorb them. Low speed stability is fine, but I've tried everything I can think of and the only thing that helps (but doesn't make it go away) is to lower the pressure, but then it bottoms easily. The fork is ok on smooth park stuff, but any roots or rocks and it seems to react poor. What makes it better than your other fork experiences (this may help me sort out my issues)?
> 
> I get the rattle too, it's most pronounced when starting or the fork hasn't been cycled for a while.


It's more plush than anything else I've ridden, and it feels more controlled in the travel. Like I can use all of the travel without ever notice bottoming out, and yet it rides high. It doesn't feel harsh in the rough choppy stuff like my Pike sometimes does. I'm not sure of my settings but I'll look into it and post back.


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

That's good to know, as it certainly feels better than the pike it replaced (under warranty) but the rattle was driving me crazy! just went out for a play in the local woods, but it had me stopping, checking the headset, the spokes, the break caliper etc.. probably made to sound worse due to the carbon frame effect.
hopefully I'll stop noticing it, or a fix is found.. 

Jayem - im running "nearly" smack in the middle of the base recommended settings at the moment, and your experience is the polar opposite to mine. I "needed" to run 2 vol spacers in the pike, and that felt really harsh, so I dropped to 1, ran more psi, felt better but still harsh, the diamond feels loads smoother, and i'm yet to bottom out, going to run it as is for a bit, as yet to really do anything big, but tempted to drop a few psi even.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

eandrew said:


> That's good to know, as it certainly feels better than the pike it replaced (under warranty) but the rattle was driving me crazy! just went out for a play in the local woods, but it had me stopping, checking the headset, the spokes, the break caliper etc.. probably made to sound worse due to the carbon frame effect.
> hopefully I'll stop noticing it, or a fix is found..
> 
> Jayem - im running "nearly" smack in the middle of the base recommended settings at the moment, and your experience is the polar opposite to mine. I "needed" to run 2 vol spacers in the pike, and that felt really harsh, so I dropped to 1, ran more psi, felt better but still harsh, the diamond feels loads smoother, and i'm yet to bottom out, going to run it as is for a bit, as yet to really do anything big, but tempted to drop a few psi even.


How much do you weigh?


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

About 85kg 90ish in riding kit I'd have thought.
(I'm 6'5")


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

So I never noticed the clicking until it was just mentioned. I had to go grab my bike and give it a test to see. Sure enough, in about the first 10-15mm of travel it clicks as you compress it. So I went for a spin and when I'm actually riding, I almost never hear it because it's just on the other side of the sag, so it's only when the fork is unweighted and then compressed.
So this is a Diamond I've only had for about 5-6 rides. I have another one I've been riding on another bike that I bought as soon as it was available last spring... This one does not click! Try as I may I can't replicate the sound with my earlier fork.


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

Well I've been told by the shop I ordered them from that this is not to be expected, and to send them back for either a refund or replacement...

This video show the noise striped from the bike with the steerer bung removed so all there is is the fork on the floor

https://youtu.be/e2DT0tjRJZ0

So same again giving them another shot.... Or 36s?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

max_lombardy said:


> So I never noticed the clicking until it was just mentioned. I had to go grab my bike and give it a test to see. Sure enough, in about the first 10-15mm of travel it clicks as you compress it. So I went for a spin and when I'm actually riding, I almost never hear it because it's just on the other side of the sag, so it's only when the fork is unweighted and then compressed.
> So this is a Diamond I've only had for about 5-6 rides. I have another one I've been riding on another bike that I bought as soon as it was available last spring... This one does not click! Try as I may I can't replicate the sound with my earlier fork.


it seems weird to me that you would not hear this in the course of normal riding. there are many times your suspension would go to full extension- jumping, step-down, lifting the front wheel, whoop-de-dos, and so on.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Well as I said, I had only put in maybe 5 rides on the fork. It was also a new bike, so I was really paying attention to a lot of other stuff, and TBH the noise isn't all that loud. I can hear it when riding on the blacktop, but it's easily overcome by the other noises of trail riding


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## subydoo (Feb 17, 2005)

eandrew said:


> Well I've been told by the shop I ordered them from that this is not to be expected, and to send them back for either a refund or replacement...
> 
> This video show the noise striped from the bike with the steerer bung removed so all there is is the fork on the floor
> 
> ...


Mine was making the same noise, could hear it riding and in the parking lot. Took the fork off the bike and could basically feel it.

Called DVO and spoke to JP about it, he mentioned a small cone shaped washer down in the negative spring area that they are no longer using and said to remove it. Surprise, mine did not have that one anyway.

I kept messing with it, took the damper cartridge out and while playing with it noted that every time it topped out it went clank clank, sounded metal on metal. I pulled it apart, not too difficult, and put a small o ring on the shaft for a rubber bumper at top out. Noise gone completely. 1000 miles later and still no noise.


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

The shop i bought mine from tells me that "its not normal" although obviously i'm aware others are experiencing it.

TBH its too loud for me to ignore, probably exaggerated by a large tubed carbon frame (and silky smooth riding style ;-) 

The shops words to me were that, whilst it might not be causing a functional problem now, it could lead to a bigger issue later.

whilst I'm sure this is just some ass covering rather than any in-depth technical knowledge of the product and the issue, Im sending it back in order to not take a chance with a warranty.

Id also be wary of opening it up and modifying it myself for these very reasons whilst under warranty.

I think as this seems common Ill give the 36s a go as a replacement, although im a little concerned about the harshness others are experiencing.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

This maybe the clicking I had when I was playing around with various travel settings.
I put it down to the OTT spring not seating properly (or being loose on a plastic retaining sleeve). If you look at the DVO video on travel adjustment you will see that the spring needs to be rotated with a bit of force into place.


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

Hmm, well maybe Ill give the DVO another chance, if the one the shop sends me develops this again Ill have a poke around inside before contacting them for assistance.

DVO never replied to my emails and UK based so don't fancy calling them :-(
Thanks for your advice guys, it gives me something to go one if i break them open.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

geo025 said:


> This maybe the clicking I had when I was playing around with various travel settings.
> I put it down to the OTT spring not seating properly (or being loose on a plastic retaining sleeve). If you look at the DVO video on travel adjustment you will see that the spring needs to be rotated with a bit of force into place.


I think most of us with the knocking have never done anything to the travel adjustment (meaning it's not user error).


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I reduced the travel on my first Diamond and that's the one that doesn't click. The new fork is straight out of the box and clicking like a pod of dolphins trying to corral a school of herring.


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## eandrew (Mar 19, 2015)

Is the clicking others are experiencing as bad as that I am?


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

eandrew said:


> Well I've been told by the shop I ordered them from that this is not to be expected, and to send them back for either a refund or replacement...
> 
> This video show the noise striped from the bike with the steerer bung removed so all there is is the fork on the floor
> 
> ...


I would not be happy if my new fork sounded like that.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Jayem said:


> The high speed damping seems to ricochet off of impacts, rather than absorb them.


I had a similar experience with mine. I found that my air pressure was too low. I upped my psi with OTT set to 8 or 9. I have LSC set to 1 for most riding. It feels great. In my experience, if the air pressure is too low, the fork feels kind of dead.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

661lee said:


> I had a similar experience with mine. I found that my air pressure was too low. I upped my psi with OTT set to 8 or 9. I have LSC set to 1 for most riding. It feels great. In my experience, if the air pressure is too low, the fork feels kind of dead.


If I lower the air pressure to around 100, it bottoms easily, especially with OTT 8-9, which induces the knock rather easily too. Raising the air pressure to where it doesn't bottom and setting the sag results in the very harsh high speed damping.

It's getting revalved right now, so I'm hoping for good things! They seem committed to making it work well.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Jayem, bummer to hear you're having troubles. Although it's good to hear they're helping you out... Did you just contact them and tell them what's up?

I remember you mentioned bottoming out, did you ever try adding oil to the air spring side? I notice I use all the travel on my fork but I never feel it bottom out. I think I have it set perfect for my weight and riding style, I'm still super stoked with this fork!


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Jayem said:


> It's getting revalved right now, so I'm hoping for good things! They seem committed to making it work well.


Cool. Let us know how it works out.


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## invol2ver (Jul 14, 2009)

So how bad is the tire clearance? I'm running a magic marry on 40mm derbys in the desert so quite a bit of volume and tire clearance is important


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

invol2ver said:


> So how bad is the tire clearance? I'm running a magic marry on 40mm derbys in the desert so quite a bit of volume and tire clearance is important


I don't know what that means, but I was running a 2.5 minion on 30mm rims and it worked fine.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

What sort of valving changes are you after with it?


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## invol2ver (Jul 14, 2009)

well rocks get flung up all the time and it will gauge the **** out of the lowers if the clearance is to small


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

GH28 said:


> What sort of valving changes are you after with it?


Already made the changes, but unable to test due to a wheel size change.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Shoot, won't fit my new large frame due to headtube too long and would be down to zero spacers likely.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Bummer. Must be a sign... Time to try the new Ohlins fork? Or BOS? I read they are opening service centers in the US now.


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## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

What frame has a headtube that long?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

GH28 said:


> What frame has a headtube that long?


It's not *that* long, but I'm going from a medium frame to a large Turner RFX, so it does add a little length there. The headatube area is massive in every dimension, not excessively tall, but again, going from a medium to a large frame does take some additional room. I could probably run the DVO with no spacers, but usually like to cut a fork (steerer) so I can put around 15-20mm of spacers in there, to give some flexibility with lowering or raising the stem. I'm waiting for a part for my headset, but putting everything together and measuring it seems to show that the DVO would just barely make it for the stem, and since the stem isn't even a full-contact type, I'd rather have the longer steerer and be able to get the overlap just right.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Soundsd like you never really got along that well with the DVO anyhow... What's your plan for the Turner? Those are supposed to be really sweet!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

max_lombardy said:


> Soundsd like you never really got along that well with the DVO anyhow... What's your plan for the Turner? Those are supposed to be really sweet!











Frame came with a Lyrik, but I installed my Pike's avalanche pistons into it the lyric charger damper. The avalanche stuff has a mid-valve and supposedly with this setup, it gets adjustable high-speed compression and low speed. I didn't have the greatest reliability with the charger damper, but the updated seal heads may make a difference. If not, I'll probably get the Avy open-bath damper for it Won't be able to test it for a few months until spring comes around though. Got a 26 140 shaft for my pike to bring it down to 100mm (it's a 29er) for my fatbike when I run 29er skinny wheels, and I have to sell the DVO. Shame, I do want to try it out with the custom valving, I have no reason to think it's not good. Was interesting that the DVO 29er had about the same axle to crown as the 170mm Lyric, just needed another half an inch or so of steerer to make it right.


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## mehukatti (Sep 21, 2005)

I have the clicking sound too in first part of the travel. I can just push the fork in small successive fashion and hear the clicking sound. Any official solution for this? I could consider pulling the damper and/or air spring apart by myself, BUT they still haven't published instructions for that.

Which part here is the one that they have removed from newer forks:

https://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/DIAMOND-COMPLETE-ASSEMBLY.jpg


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## piperpilot964 (Dec 28, 2014)

Not a removal...I understand they added a bushing. Call DVO, Ronnie is a great guy. He will explain.


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## mehukatti (Sep 21, 2005)

I contacted the local DVO importer where I bought the fork and turns out he was in DVO training this February where they went through this knocking issue and how to remedy it. He is currently servicing my fork so everything should be ok. So I'm still a happy DVO customer! 

His explanation of the problem, translated to English by me:

In rebound damping side there is a piston that is too slick and with shims causes a vacuum in first part of the travel when shim is trying to open, causing a clicking sound. He also said that this is a problem only in forks that are manufactured between certain dates. My fork was one of the first ones so I can imagine that new forks won't have this issue.


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## dranniK (Jan 25, 2016)

Anyone over 200 pounds riding a Diamond? I'm on the fence about getting either this or a Fox 36 w/ a Fit4


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

dranniK said:


> Anyone over 200 pounds riding a Diamond? I'm on the fence about getting either this or a Fox 36 w/ a Fit4


If you do get the 36 I'd opt for the RC2 damper. Just a thought.


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## dranniK (Jan 25, 2016)

max_lombardy said:


> If you do get the 36 I'd opt for the RC2 damper. Just a thought.


So are the Fit4 and Rc2 different?


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Yes, they are different. I'm right at 200 with my riding kit on, not over 200lbs though, close enough?


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## dranniK (Jan 25, 2016)

Idaho said:


> Yes, they are different. I'm right at 200 with my riding kit on, not over 200lbs though, close enough?


I ended up going with the Diamond anyhow. @ 200, how does the fork feel to you? Assuming you have it dialed in at your weight per the manual.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

The fork feels great to me. I've come to find over the year or so I've had the diamond that the real key is to find the balance between the OTT and the LSC. Then chase down your ideal rebound setting. What has helped me is thinking of the LSC as a mid-stroke setting while using the OTT as the initial stroke setting. Both are for LSC hits, but control different parts of the stroke. Hope that makes sense.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dranniK said:


> Anyone over 200 pounds riding a Diamond? I'm on the fence about getting either this or a Fox 36 w/ a Fit4


235 here and running one at 160mm on my Turner Burner. It feels slightly stiffer than the Marzochii 55cr I had on my 5 spot and I don't notice any difference in stiffness compared to the 2016 Fox 36 on my friends Burner. That said, a faster rider could feel a difference.


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## nr7wave (Jul 4, 2007)

I am 210 and running a 160 27,5 Diamond and a 170 For 36 RC2. The Diamond is better on the small stuff and the Fox is better on the fast and gnarly stuff. The Fox is definatly stiffer. The Fox is silent. The Diamond makes all kinds og strange noises. 

Sent fra min E6553 via Tapatalk


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

So, what are you guys using for the 15cc's of recommended 7.5wt oil when changing out the seals or adjusting the travel?


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Golden Spectro


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

rockman said:


> So, what are you guys using for the 15cc's of recommended 7.5wt oil when changing out the seals or adjusting the travel?


I was wondering the same... I always just use this 10wt Fox oil I have in the shed and never had a problem. Is there a legitimate reason not to?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Apparently Golden Spectro 125/150 is the equivalent of 7.5wt oil. DVO got back to me and said not to use RS oil or Maxima in any DVO product.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Adjusted the travel to 140mm. That's a bugger even with a heat gun and the right 30 mm shaft clamps. Not sure what "pin spanner" they use for the job but mine is pretty decent and I still gouged the air cartridge body cap. And with a thin-walled socket I also managed to mar the top cap. I'm not that ham-fisted and really how hard would it be to include a tool that fits the oddly shaped openings in the cap? E13 includes a bb tool in every bb and crankset they sell.

On a positive note the fork feels pretty good right from the get-go. Lost of mid-stroke support while still feeling quite supple at low speeds. Still dialing it in but pleased and no knocking or other unusual noises to report.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Hey guys, still torn whether the Diamond (27.5/160) is the one for me. Looking for an opinion from those running the Diamond on moderate to steep (10-18%) with very rocky (6-10" with tons of goat heads), rooty and loose terrain on 65.5-66.5 HA bikes? Those who ride very aggressively, charge hard, and push the bike hard into the corners. More techy based riding than jumpy, but lots of 1-4' drops and rock gardens at high speed. Fork would be going on a canyon Strive. Got a Lyrik and hate it, have had several pikes and older fox. 36 or Diamond sound like they are my best options...???


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Techspec360 said:


> Hey guys, still torn whether the Diamond (27.5/160) is the one for me. Looking for an opinion from those running the Diamond on moderate to steep (10-18%) with very rocky (6-10" with tons of goat heads), rooty and loose terrain on 65.5-66.5 HA bikes? Those who ride very aggressively, charge hard, and push the bike hard into the corners. More techy based riding than jumpy, but lots of 1-4' drops and rock gardens at high speed. Fork would be going on a canyon Strive. Got a Lyrik and hate it, have had several pikes and older fox. 36 or Diamond sound like they are my best options...???


What is it about the Lyrik that you hate? I don't mean to sound pedantic but it's a really well regarded fork, I can't help but wonder if it's set up right?

Between the Diamond and the 36 I'd honestly choose whichever one is a better deal. But there may be something you could do to your Lyrik to make it ride better...


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

max_lombardy said:


> What is it about the Lyrik that you hate? I don't mean to sound pedantic but it's a really well regarded fork, I can't help but wonder if it's set up right?
> 
> Between the Diamond and the 36 I'd honestly choose whichever one is a better deal. But there may be something you could do to your Lyrik to make it ride better...


The Lyrik (as with the Pikes) gets overworked in the really rowdy stuff and has poor small bump compliance. For those that have noticed, they get really harsh and start spiking during repeated high speed hits. The small bu,p compliance is not good on them either when trying to tune the fork for aggressive riding [The latter is what lead me to the DVO]. If running lower pressure and tokens, it's mid stroke support suffers. Running fewer tokes and higher pressure resolves mid stroke support but severely compromises small bump and low speed reaction. Lower pressures and more LSC has more support but degrades small bump dramatically as well. There's also the RS characteristic stiction which it exhibits anytime but when brand new or just after a service.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Hmm. Well the DVO is a much more linear fork out of the box than my Pikes have been. You should also be aware that if you need to tune the air spring on the Diamond, you'll be adding oil in the leg. Not as simple as throwing in a token, but not a huge ordeal either. It is also really tunable, and all the adjustments actually do a lot. I like the idea of their OTT stuff and it's really functional. I haven't spent a lot of time on the newest Fox stuff but the few rides I have done on it was really impressive. Small bump on both is better than RS, but I can't really fault the performance of my Pike either. It definitely feels a lot different but I like both forks a lot.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

rockman said:


> Adjusted the travel to 140mm. That's a bugger even with a heat gun and the right 30 mm shaft clamps. Not sure what "pin spanner" they use for the job but mine is pretty decent and I still gouged the air cartridge body cap. And with a thin-walled socket I also managed to mar the top cap. I'm not that ham-fisted and really how hard would it be to include a tool that fits the oddly shaped openings in the cap? E13 includes a bb tool in every bb and crankset they sell.


Yes. Everyone ought to be warned that adjusting travel on the Diamond is not an easy feat. Not at all comparable to swapping air shafts on a Pike or swapping spacers on a Float 36 or Stage. I take a deep breath every time shaft clamps are required. What else requires a 30mm shaft clamp!?!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Techspec360 said:


> Got a Lyrik and hate it?


Do this, better than any OEM fork I've used (mainly because it uses a tuned damper which relies on proven technology):


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah that's a great idea, I think the Pike has a great chassis as well. It seems a bit more refined than the DVO tbh. Also Fast makes a cartridge for the pike and Lyrik, I had been considering that as well..


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Yes. Everyone ought to be warned that adjusting travel on the Diamond is not an easy feat. Not at all comparable to swapping air shafts on a Pike or swapping spacers on a Float 36 or Stage. I take a deep breath every time shaft clamps are required. What else requires a 30mm shaft clamp!?!


Yes shaft clamps are a scary deal. These don't seem quite as detrimental being it's the outside, but on some usages, one slip and its junk....


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Do this, better than any OEM fork I've used (mainly because it uses a tuned damper which relies on proven technology):
> 
> View attachment 1080647


What aftermarket cartridge are you seeing the best results with? What additional adjustability are you gaining with these? Do the kits include any refinements for the air side?


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Yes. Everyone ought to be warned that adjusting travel on the Diamond is not an easy feat. Not at all comparable to swapping air shafts on a Pike or swapping spacers on a Float 36 or Stage. I take a deep breath every time shaft clamps are required. What else requires a 30mm shaft clamp!?!


Shaft clamp, vice, heat gun & *special pin spanner*. I clamped the stanchion & apllied heat... Put down gorilla strngth - wasn't moving... More heat. Tried again and managed to slip the spanner across the anodized fitting (arg). Ditched the spanner for a set of 90* needle nose pliers. Heat, gorilla strength and the fitting let loose with a crack. Either too much factory loctite or torque who knows. Either way it is work.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Techspec360 said:


> What aftermarket cartridge are you seeing the best results with? What additional adjustability are you gaining with these? Do the kits include any refinements for the air side?


It's not about adjustability. A fork can have all the dials in the world, but it doesn't make the damping work. Just because something says it has HSC and LSC adjusters doesn't mean you can run a lot of LSC and have it stable on the g-outs and terrain and still absorb the sharp edged hits. In most cases, I find these knobs to simply be "harshness increasers", as the useful adjustment is limited. Take my pike, running a good deal of LSC helped keep it from diving on DHs under hard braking and in scalloped braking bumps, but it also made it ride significantly harsher, spiking sometimes, etc.

The simple of the Avalanche cartridge is that it gives you valving and performance like you expect from a motocross bike. This technology is not secret or hard to produce, but most mtb suspension companies either don't even try to give you proper high speed and low speed circuits, giving you some dumb "climb" lever and then NO freaking stability or LSC for the "descend mode", or they are trying to accommodate a 130-230lb range of riders, which is insane. It's the proverbial "have your cake and eat it too". Many of us are convinced we can't have this, due to running OEM shocks, but really, you can have firm LSC that makes for a stable ride, like using your switch on the "trail" or even "climb" setting, and still have it work like a magic pillow when you come across a sharp bump.

More technically, there's a tuned compression stack, tuned for your weight, for your riding style, etc. There's a tuned rebound stack and a mid-valve, to help counter braking forces and keep the fork high in the travel. There's a hydraulic anti-bottoming cone that allows you to do big stuff without bottoming the fork or running excessively high pressure. The low-speed compression is firm and there is a lot of resistance to pushing down on the fork now at the same spring pressure, but you can just aim this thing at rock pikes and root complexes and it'll absorb it without kicking the front end or causing diving. Just stays composed. The faster you get, the smoother it feels. You can take roots and rocks at crazy off-camber angles, because it just "sticks". You get LSC and LSR adjustments, while HSC and HSR are adjusted via the stack arrangement. Typically, forks that claim to have this adjustment usually pre-load the shim stacks. While this does affect HSC, it's not the same as having a tuned stack and IME, makes the fork harsher without giving you a useful increase in HSC.

This also converts the fork to open-bath on the damper side, which simplifies maintenance and service and removes the pike/lyrik rebound-head seal issue. I didn't want to have to deal with that.

All in all, it's what I expect suspension to be. Having the tuned suspension front and rear is just insane (just got back from a ride). LSC to make the bike stable, give resistance when you need resistance, and still gobbles up roots and stuff like crazy, much better than before. The faster you go in the rough, the better it feels.

The DVO didn't work out for me. The technology seems to be correct, but it spiked a lot on high speed and getting any compliance out of it meant lowering the pressure so much that it would easily bottom. They revalved it for me, but I never got to try it, since I changed wheel-sizes. I still have the DVO and would like to sell it to someone that wants to try it (used 3 months, then the factory rebuild/revalve), but I couldn't be happier on the Avalanche Lyrik. It's the real deal.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Thank you for your response!

I couldn't have explained it more precisely on what I expect from my suspension and all your explanations make perfect sense to me. So I gather avalanche is the way to go, what did you use for the rear suspension are you also running a monarch on the rear?


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jayem said:


> It's not about adjustability. A fork can have all the dials in the world, but it doesn't make the damping work. Just because something says it has HSC and LSC adjusters doesn't mean you can run a lot of LSC and have it stable on the g-outs and terrain and still absorb the sharp edged hits. In most cases, I find these knobs to simply be "harshness increasers", as the useful adjustment is limited. Take my pike, running a good deal of LSC helped keep it from diving on DHs under hard braking and in scalloped braking bumps, but it also made it ride significantly harsher, spiking sometimes, etc.
> 
> The simple of the Avalanche cartridge is that it gives you valving and performance like you expect from a motocross bike. This technology is not secret or hard to produce, but most mtb suspension companies either don't even try to give you proper high speed and low speed circuits, giving you some dumb "climb" lever and then NO freaking stability or LSC for the "descend mode", or they are trying to accommodate a 130-230lb range of riders, which is insane. It's the proverbial "have your cake and eat it too". Many of us are convinced we can't have this, due to running OEM shocks, but really, you can have firm LSC that makes for a stable ride, like using your switch on the "trail" or even "climb" setting, and still have it work like a magic pillow when you come across a sharp bump.
> 
> ...


Sorry to get a bit off topic, but does this make any sense to you from your research? "It's the same mod as the stock Pike/Charger dampers usually get, FYI. Just remove the preload ring from the middle of the comp stack. Smoother transition into the HSC section.". I copied from some thread a while back and have been meaning to dig more into it. It was regarding the same topic of HSC harshness/spiking.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jayem said:


> It's not about adjustability. A fork can have all the dials in the world, but it doesn't make the damping work. Just because something says it has HSC and LSC adjusters doesn't mean you can run a lot of LSC and have it stable on the g-outs and terrain and still absorb the sharp edged hits. In most cases, I find these knobs to simply be "harshness increasers", as the useful adjustment is limited. Take my pike, running a good deal of LSC helped keep it from diving on DHs under hard braking and in scalloped braking bumps, but it also made it ride significantly harsher, spiking sometimes, etc.
> 
> The simple of the Avalanche cartridge is that it gives you valving and performance like you expect from a motocross bike. This technology is not secret or hard to produce, but most mtb suspension companies either don't even try to give you proper high speed and low speed circuits, giving you some dumb "climb" lever and then NO freaking stability or LSC for the "descend mode", or they are trying to accommodate a 130-230lb range of riders, which is insane. It's the proverbial "have your cake and eat it too". Many of us are convinced we can't have this, due to running OEM shocks, but really, you can have firm LSC that makes for a stable ride, like using your switch on the "trail" or even "climb" setting, and still have it work like a magic pillow when you come across a sharp bump.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response!

I couldn't have explained it more precisely on what I expect from my suspension and all your explanations make perfect sense to me. So I gather avalanche is the way to go, what did you use for the rear suspension are you also running a monarch on the rear?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Techspec360 said:


> running a monarch on the rear?


That's an avalanche tuned monarch+, it's like running the thing on the "climb" setting, but still having amazing bump performance on sharp edged stuff. Lots of compression support with no negative.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jayem said:


> That's an avalanche tuned monarch+, it's like running the thing on the "climb" setting, but still having amazing bump performance on sharp edged stuff. Lots of compression support with no negative.


Dang man, what your explaining is what I've wishing for years! Pays to spend some time digging. Thanks for all your explanations! Hopefully the avy stuff is still available.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

I'll just throw out a bone and say I'm pretty happy with the Diamond on my Ibis Ripley. While I don't doubt that Jayem is a suspension savant I don't notice what he describes. I just ride. I also liked the Pike on my V1 Ripley and I think the Lyrik solo air on my Turner RFX is killer. 

By all means go stick a $500 Avy cart in your $1100 Lyrik. For another $100 they will install it for you!

Back on topic, and despite the hassle involved adjusting travel, the DVO Diamond is a pretty dang good off-the-shelf fork.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

rockman said:


> By all means go stick a $500 Avy cart in your $1100 Lyrik. For another $100 they will install it for you!


Or get a nice take off or used fork and put the Avy stuff in and end up at relatively the same costs.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> Or get a nice take off or used fork and put the Avy stuff in and end up at relatively the same costs.


Or buy said fork with a frame for a big discount ($500) and use that money for the cart  Yeah, the fact that a DVO, Pike, Lyrik, Fox, costs at least $1000 and doesn't have custom damping or at least the parts and design that would allow for them to be easily set up as such, is ridiculous. For $1000, these things better lick my balls.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Or buy said fork with a frame for a big discount ($500) and use that money for the cart  Yeah, the fact that a DVO, Pike, Lyrik, Fox, costs at least $1000 and doesn't have custom damping or at least the parts and design that would allow for them to be easily set up as such, is ridiculous. For $1000, these things better lick my balls.


Well, you seem content to derail a perfectly fine thread about the DVO with your suspension speak so I'll play along. Avy is good stuff for sure. But in general I don't notice most of what you complain about regarding the Lyrik. The off-the-shelf forks are pretty good. However, on a short-ish travel bike like my Ripley 29r it's not the fork; rather it's the lack of shock options. Off-the-shelf forks generally do a good job of keeping up but the poor effing dampers on these bikes deal with a lot more energy and yet they have tiny air cans/negative spring, high IFP pressures, low oil volumes and very short strokes with very few adjustments. If anything it's not the fork holding back the 120-140mm bikes, it's the need for a higher quality damped rear shock.

Especially so, with all the DW-Link designs that create anti-squat. The pedal-induced extension of the shock counters the need for low speed compression dampening, right?. Therefore, to get the most out of these bikes which is exactly what Jayem is preaching you've got to nail the spring rate and for that you need high quality dampers with micro LSC adjustments. Or, the result is a loss of traction and a harsh ride. Not many options out there.

I don't doubt the Avy cart is good and I'd like to try it but I notice what the rear suspension is doing (or not doing) far more than the lack of performance from the stock Lyrik or the DVO. IMHO.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Or buy said fork with a frame for a big discount ($500) and use that money for the cart  Yeah, the fact that a DVO, Pike, Lyrik, Fox, costs at least $1000 and doesn't have custom damping or at least the parts and design that would allow for them to be easily set up as such, is ridiculous. For $1000, these things better lick my balls.


Anyone paying retail for these is crazy, there well known vendors on here that don't charge that. Not listing them, but I paid $800 for my Fox 36 when they were released.

I bought a new take off Fox CTD cheap since everyone hates them and sent it to Craig( he recommended it for my frame over the EVOL), combined cost as much as a new Shock.


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## Rey Recinto (Mar 15, 2005)

@rockman: 


"Especially so, with all the DW-Link designs that create anti-squat. The pedal-induced extension of the shock counters the need for low speed compression dampening, right?. Therefore, to get the most out of these bikes which is exactly what Jayem is preaching you've got to nail the spring rate and for that you need high quality dampers with micro LSC adjustments. Or, the result is a loss of traction and a harsh ride. Not many options out there."

Slightly off-topic though: 

What about the Diamond Topaz T3Air combined with Diamond Fork on a DW-Link RFX or 2013 DW-Link 5 Spot which relies on the "anti-squat" features..?

Care to share your thoughts on this bro?

Appreciate your inputs..


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Rey Recinto said:


> @rockman:
> 
> "Especially so, with all the DW-Link designs that create anti-squat. The pedal-induced extension of the shock counters the need for low speed compression dampening, right?. Therefore, to get the most out of these bikes which is exactly what Jayem is preaching you've got to nail the spring rate and for that you need high quality dampers with micro LSC adjustments. Or, the result is a loss of traction and a harsh ride. Not many options out there."
> 
> ...


I have no experience with the Topaz. I've posted about my trials and tribulations with the CC Inline in other threads but I still think it's mostly above the curve and offers the desired adjustability despite the reliability issues. I also tried the stock CTD that came on my Ripley and thought that mostly sucked. I had Craig do the Avy SST mod on it and it was substantially better at keeping the wheel glued to the ground but lost some of that pop that I really liked about the Inline. In contrast, I never could get the Inline to feel right in medium chop/rock gardens and blamed it on a restrictive high speed circuit.

The shock I liked best on my 5spot was a Push MX tune coil but the Push Monarch Plus was pretty dang close. That seems to offer more tuning options as well if it fits your frame. I now have an ElevenSix on my Turner RFX and it's amazing. I feel the same way about that shock as Jayem does about his avy cart for his Lyrik. I'm running a 170mm Lyrik on my RFX and it's a good match and I really have no complaints. I'm no top tier Enduro rider but do like to go fast even at my advanced age. Heck, he probably doesn't remember but I've even ridden with the Jayem.


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## Rey Recinto (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks rockman...I think the best choice would be the PUSH Eleven Six shock for the RFX...I am sure thought about the Eleven-Six on my 2013 5 Spot...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rockman said:


> I'm no top tier Enduro rider but do like to go fast even at my advanced age. Heck, he probably doesn't remember but I've even ridden with the Jayem.


My riding is better than my mind.. I could use a refresher. I think I rode with just about everyone in AZ though, well, except for the guys in Phoenix that never left Phoenix.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> My riding is better than my mind.. I could use a refresher. I think I rode with just about everyone in AZ though, well, except for the guys in Phoenix that never left Phoenix.


So true. Like MrWhlr. Anyhoo, we did a Double H as part of Sedona AZ spring fling back in 2009 or 2010. I was helping lead a singlespeed group and your group joined us. You were on a 6pack or some Turner frankenbike hybrid I think.

It's too bad you didn't get a chance to try the Diamond after sending it back. I'm really starting to dig this fork.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rockman said:


> So true. Like MrWhlr. Anyhoo, we did a Double H as part of Sedona AZ spring fling back in 2009 or 2010. I was helping lead a singlespeed group and your group joined us. You were on a 6pack or some Turner frankenbike hybrid I think.
> 
> It's too bad you didn't get a chance to try the Diamond after sending it back. I'm really starting to dig this fork.


Oh right, this frankenbike:


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Do this, better than any OEM fork I've used (mainly because it uses a tuned damper which relies on proven technology):
> 
> View attachment 1080647


I Do not your what you did. 
When Theo produce a fork with emohasis on servicing and tuning the shimstack by the user, why won' t you first try to adjust the shimstack to your needs before Stellung it and soending so much money in the avalanche combi? 
So you just Do not know it the fork Is really that bad and if you just Couleur have solved with a few dollars for shims .why send it for much money to a custom shim tuning? Dvo would have helped ans adviced you, which stack measurements Do use ;-)


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bansaiman said:


> I Do not your what you did.
> When Theo produce a fork with emohasis on servicing and tuning the shimstack by the user, why won' t you first try to adjust the shimstack to your needs before Stellung it and soending so much money in the avalanche combi?
> So you just Do not know it the fork Is really that bad and if you just Couleur have solved with a few dollars for shims .why send it for much money to a custom shim tuning? Dvo would have helped ans adviced you, which stack measurements Do use ;-)


Because I had a pike (pictured is my Lyric), it sucked in air multiple times from the rebound seal, so I didn't want to have to deal with that problem.

Because the avy cartridge comes with an anti-bottoming cone, for extra hydraulic bottom-out protection

Because the avy cartridge has much greater fluid volume and no bladder to worry about.

Because oil changes are easier and faster.

Because the piston ports are sized correctly, in addition to the shim stacks being correct.

Because shim-stack modeling is guessing to a large extent without the proper equipment and going in to take apart the fork and cartridge a bunch of times to re-do the shim stacks is dumb.

Lots of reasons.

As far as the DVO, no, I wasn't impressed by it's action, not compared to the stock pike. Blatant has a similar combination of forks as me and feels similar, that the Avy RS fork is far superior. DVO isn't the only one on the block, you can modify the Pike shim stack too, it just takes a few more steps to break down the cartridge. The DVO seemed like it had the capability, but it didn't come tuned right from the factory and didn't come with the ability to tune it right from the factory, especially odd because I'm pretty close to the "normal" mountain biker weight, 160-165lbs or so. It was the classic OEM "the faster you push it in the rough stuff the worse it feels" situation. OTT as "low speed compression" makes no sense, as less just makes it harsher, they were never able to answer my questions on their Q&A board about it. I was able to get it kind of smooth on flow-type trails with a massive amount of OTT, but anything rocky and there was a lot of spiking and harsh travel, no matter what damping settings I used. Of course I don't need much suspension for smooth flow trails though. Then of course I'm hoping that it'll work correctly if I send it back to the factory, which is what I had to do because I was getting the "knocking" problem, so it did get re-valved, but I moved to a different wheel size. If I had kept 29, perhaps if the Evil Wreckoning came out a few months earlier, I probably would have given it another chance with the factory re-valve. So the nail in the coffin was changing wheelsize, but one day I may hook it up, because the ride-height on the 29er 160 DVO is about the same as my 27.5 lyric 170, if I don't sell it first.

I expect high end suspension to blow my mind or have the ability to do so with minimal fuss.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Because I had a pike, it sucked in air multiple times from the rebound seal, so I didn't want to have to deal with that problem.
> 
> Because the avy cartridge comes with an anti-bottoming cone, for extra hydraulic bottom-out protection
> 
> ...


I read some of your reviews, on the Diamond, earlier in this thread. You complained about the lack of bottomout control but wouldn't take any steps or advice in rectifying the problem. I read the posts and thought adding oil above the positive piston is easy why not??? 
I purchased a Diamond and concur it can* eat travel. I removed the shraeder valve and syninged some oil...viola added bottomout control. There may be more reasons you like your Pike but your review of the Diamond stalled out.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I brought those concerns up with DVO, they didn't answer, so obviously they didn't say to add oil, a procedure not mentioned in the manual. What's the manual for if you have to do a bunch of stuff not listed in it? Why doesn't the spring curve work well from the factory? It seemed like a much bigger issue than making it more progressive, which requires you to run even more sag. That's like adding tokens. Doesn't fix damping.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Why doesn't the spring curve work well from the factory?
> 
> Because not everyone weighs an average 175lbs. nor is every bit of tuning spelled out in manuals. Hats off to RS for giving volume adjustments but its still an air... anyone remember coil performance? Getting the proper spring rate will always be a bit of a compromise just think of how many different air spring volumes Fox has come out with. Lets face it if forks were designed for optimal performance they would have more adjustments and weigh a ton & cost $$$.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

keen said:


> Jayem said:
> 
> 
> > Why doesn't the spring curve work well from the factory?
> ...


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## Josue (Sep 6, 2011)

Subscribed


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll throw my experience in the mix. 

I have a 15 Stumpy EVO. So far Ive ridden a Pike RCT3, 36 RC2, and the Diamond.

Pike was good out of the box, easy setup, typical pike. But, I blew up that fork. 

36 was a little more involved in the setup. I wasn't as Jazzed on the RC2 dampner on a all mountain bike, because standing climbing was horrid. Bobbed terribly. Sensitivity was on par with the Pike, not as good as the DVO. At high speeds, the 36 is amazing. Stiff, and composed. Just wish it had some measure of lockout or pedal platform for climbing. 

The DVO was tricky to setup. Tried factory recommendations out of the box, and rode. Blew through travel really bad when charging, but small bump was outstanding. Just riding along it felt nice, but was falling short on "pop" and was too linear.

So I bumped up the PSI gradually til I ended up 25psi higher, at 150. Maxxed the OTT, 2 clicks HSC, 2 LSC. That got me to 16% sag, and it feels amazing. I definitely feel this fork likes a little less sag. 

Impression is, after taking my time with setup and throwing the manual away, its amazing. Super supportive, sensitive, stiff, and overall feels good, and starts to disappear on the trail. I feel like I cant bottom it out, its very progressive. That, with fast rebound, makes it feel amazingly playful. 

Also, the HSC and LSC didn't feel very effective at 20% sag. 15% is way better all around. For reference, I'm 195, 5'7", aggressive rider. Overall, I love the fork. Its right at home on my Stumpjumper, I'll be hitting up the bike parks on it in the end of August.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

So I put a 35mm wheel set on with a DHF 2.5" wide trail up front and it barely squeaks in. When I stand and pedal though the tire rubs the fender. I might take it off and go down to 2.4 DHR or just remove the fender. Not sure if this tire is a bit too much for my style of riding.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I'd remove the fender as it does tighten the space up a bit. Give that a go before going through the trouble of swapping tires out.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Idaho said:


> I'd remove the fender as it does tighten the space up a bit. Give that a go before going through the trouble of swapping tires out.


Yeah I will definitely try that first but I may have bit off a little more than I can chew with this tire haha! I like big(ish) rubber but this is a little absurd. Like putting on combat boots and trying to run a 10K.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Tighten your spoke tension if you can, it helped with my E29 rear end. I know I ran the minion 29 2.5 in the diamond a few times, never any rub, but on a 30mm carbon rim.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Anyone running a Diamond on their SC Nomad v3? I noticed that the Diamond has a little more offset than the Pike which comes stock on the Nomad and wondering how that affects the handling.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

matadorCE said:


> Anyone running a Diamond on their SC Nomad v3? I noticed that the Diamond has a little more offset than the Pike which comes stock on the Nomad and wondering how that affects the handling.


Im running a diamond on mine. It replaced a 36rc2. Could not be happier. The diamond is everything a single crown should be.

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## bumblebeezack (Dec 16, 2010)

Just got one a couple of days ago. Came off a Mattoc Pro. Still tuning and running it in. Matches pretty well to the Vivd Air R2C.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

I've had my Diamond now for about a month. I weigh about 160 - 165 suited up, and am running near the suggested specs for the fork. So far it has been an amazing fork. It is super plush, and I have been running the low speed compresion mostly wide open. I've been running my Diamond with a P35 rim and a 2.35" Hans Dampf tire. I have about 3mm between the bridge and the tire at around 22 - 25 psi. This has caused some minor issues with debris getting caught. I plan to switch over to the redesigned Bonty XR4's in 2.4". I'm hoping they will fit.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

matadorCE said:


> Anyone running a Diamond on their SC Nomad v3? I noticed that the Diamond has a little more offset than the Pike which comes stock on the Nomad and wondering how that affects the handling.


It will make the steering a little quicker. I doubt you'd really notice.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

dubthang said:


> I've had my Diamond now for about a month. I weigh about 160 - 165 suited up, and am running near the suggested specs for the fork. So far it has been an amazing fork. It is super plush, and I have been running the low speed compresion mostly wide open. I've been running my Diamond with a P35 rim and a 2.35" Hans Dampf tire. I have about 3mm between the bridge and the tire at around 22 - 25 psi. This has caused some minor issues with debris getting caught. I plan to switch over to the redesigned Bonty XR4's in 2.4". I'm hoping they will fit.
> 
> View attachment 1104258


This is why im running a 29er DVO on my 650b emduro

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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

FastBanana said:


> This is why im running a 29er DVO on my 650b emduro
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Does the 650b fork have the same clearance issues?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes. Im running a size up on the fork because I like the greater offset amd clearance. 

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## miamia (Sep 6, 2014)

650b works very well with 2.8 Nobby Nic so it seems to have more clearance than the 29 pictured above.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

miamia said:


> 650b works very well with 2.8 Nobby Nic so it seems to have more clearance than the 29 pictured above.


Must be the boost version?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

max_lombardy said:


> Must be the boost version?


Probably cuz the non boost is tight with a 2.4.

Unless he means the 29er fits a 27.5+

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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Currently I have a 2.5 dhf on a blunt 35 in my diamond. It's snug but fine.had to remove the fender for this. Combo but I have a set of i9 enduro 305s on the way and I'm certain they will clear just fine with the fender


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## miamia (Sep 6, 2014)

I have normal 650b Diamond (non boost) and with 2.8 Nobby Nic there isn't any clearance problems. Rims are Easton Arc30 and those Nobby Nics are as big as they are claimed to be (true 2.8). 
Studded Fat Freddie 3.0 was too big for Diamond so I had to get another for winter time riding


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

miamia said:


> 650b works very well with 2.8 Nobby Nic so it seems to have more clearance than the 29 pictured above.


How about a pic.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> How about a pic.


Im skeptical. It barely fits a 2.4

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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

Blacked out / anodized DVO - Topaz & Diamond parts

Before








After


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## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

bumblebeezack said:


> Just got one a couple of days ago. Came off a Mattoc Pro. Still tuning and running it in. Matches pretty well to the Vivd Air R2C.


Why the change? I am running a Mattoc and very impressed with it.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Sick. I need a Topaz so I can do mines. I did mine in Gold.









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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

dvd31 said:


> Blacked out / anodized DVO - Topaz & Diamond parts
> 
> After
> View attachment 1104461


How did you do this?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Magic

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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Can anyone riding the topaz give some comparisons to other shocks that he has ridden, please? 
Really difficult to find any info on it


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## miamia (Sep 6, 2014)

Here is the picture of 650b Dvo Diamond with Nobby Nic 2.8


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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

FastBanana said:


> Magic
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Black magic  Parts were anodized.


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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

rollertoaster said:


> Im running a diamond on mine. It replaced a 36rc2. Could not be happier. The diamond is everything a single crown should be.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Did you had the new 2016 model of Fox 36? What didn't you like on 36?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

dvd31 said:


> Did you had the new 2016 model of Fox 36? What didn't you like on 36?


The fox was great for about one week after servicing it (multiple instances of this). After the initial week it got sticky in a hurry. I had a 2015 36 fwiw

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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

rollertoaster said:


> The fox was great for about one week after servicing it (multiple instances of this). After the initial week it got sticky in a hurry. I had a 2015 36 fwiw
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


I agree 100% that DVO is a smoother fork.

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## Iwan (Jul 18, 2007)

I had one on y Mercer Bikes Hungry Monkey - a 27.5" LT steel hardtail. It replaced the Pike I had on there before for a review. The Pike was good, but it felt like a bit of a compromise one way or another. Got the DVO and, like some of the other posters have said, took some time to dial to my liking. Although, the factory recommendations were getting it close.

When I got it to my liking it was like nothing else. What a great fork with great performance whether small bump, mid stroke or full travel. Review was published in the link below if anyone's interested to read.

Review: DVO Diamond fork


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Looks killer! Route that brake line inside the leg though...


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

miamia said:


> View attachment 1104543
> 
> Here is the picture of 650b Dvo Diamond with Nobby Nic 2.8


Looks like a lot more room than my dvo with HR 2 2.3


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

just fitted a set to my Nomad today, excited to get rid of the pikes and get these dialled in


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

That looks mean!


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I read a lot of reviews before I purchased the Diamond so I felt informed. I really liked the idea of the "OTT". What I wasn't accounting for was a not so controlled bottom out. I will admit most MTB suspension forks do lack a bottom out control (maybe Fox still employs a hydraulic bottom out control). Talked to DVO and they wanted me to adjust the OTT. This wasn't doing the trick and I went against their advice and added oil above the main air piston. Not a few cc's either maybe 30cc - Bingo! fork has a progressive end no more thud. I run their baseline settings, for my weight, plus the added oil and the fork has performed flawlessly all season long.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow, thats a whole lot of oil. More pressure didnt get you there? 

I just added 5cc. Im running 25psi over as well, will get to test it tomorrow hopefully.

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## bumblebeezack (Dec 16, 2010)

shiny said:


> Why the change? I am running a Mattoc and very impressed with it.


I've been running the Mattoc Pro for almost 3 years and I personally find the fork a little "twangy" as I came off a Marzocchi 55 Micro Ti before that. After a bit you will ignore that rearward deflection and will not notice it but it's definitely there.

The other thing is I find that in order to have the fork's initial travel as supple as I like, I have to fill it with a low amount of air (about 42 psi, and I weigh about 70kg ready to ride) and that means for me is that the fork doesn't have as much mid travel support and relies way too much on oil damping for support and I don't really like that transition where the air spring loses its "strength" and starts relying on the dampers to support your riding as you progress deeper into the fork travel.

On the other hand I pump 105 psi into the Diamond and yet the initial travel of the fork is far more supple compared to the Mattoc. The OTT works well in fine tuning that initial feel of the fork. I like the axle on the Mattoc though!


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> Wow, thats a whole lot of oil. More pressure didnt get you there?
> 
> I just added 5cc. Im running 25psi over as well, will get to test it tomorrow hopefully.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


More air pressure increased the spring rate and the ride was harsher. Years ago Marzocchi open bath forks were great for increasing the oil height to add spring rate progression, moto's do the same.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I had some bottoming issues on mine as well @200lbs geared uo i have found 10cc to be the sweet spot for preventing the thud while still getting full travel 

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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm 210 or so geared up depending on the kind of ride I'm doing and I've had no bottom out issues with the topaz or diamond. 


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

So I have the only white and gold DVO now.










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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I'm 210 or so geared up depending on the kind of ride I'm doing and I've had no bottom out issues with the topaz or diamond.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


230 here and the diamond is amazing. No bottom out issues.

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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

FastBanana said:


> So I have the only white and gold DVO now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that is nice work. I had considered Powdercoating the green bits orange to match my Nomad, but haven't taken the time to do it yet

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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Cant recommend powder. Too thick, get it anodized. 

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## EvilBkr (Mar 14, 2006)

I Replaced the Pike on my Transition Smuggler with a Diamond (And a Topaz replaced the stock RT3 at the same time). I actually found that the fork was fairly easy to dial in using the recommended base tunes on DVO's website. I'm about 170 lbs loaded and I ended up with 120 PSI, 10 clicks of rebound, 2 clicks of LSC, 2 clicks HSC, and five turns of OTT. The fork feels increbibly supple at the beginning of it's stroke, supportive in the mid stroke, and nicely progressive at the end. I have never bottomed it harshly (despite trying).

Don't get me wrong the Pike is a great fork, but the DVO is a step forward in my opinion.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

EvilBkr said:


> I Replaced the Pike on my Transition Smuggler with a Diamond (And a Topaz replaced the stock RT3 at the same time). I actually found that the fork was fairly easy to dial in using the recommended base tunes on DVO's website. I'm about 170 lbs loaded and I ended up with 120 PSI, 10 clicks of rebound, 2 clicks of LSC, 2 clicks HSC, and five turns of OTT. The fork feels increbibly supple at the beginning of it's stroke, supportive in the mid stroke, and nicely progressive at the end. I have never bottomed it harshly (despite trying).
> 
> Don't get me wrong the Pike is a great fork, but the DVO is a step forward in my opinion.


I completely agree with you. I've had 2 different pikes which are great forks but leaps behind the diamond. I have the same setup on my riot. And love both Dvos.

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## Snowsed341 (Jun 16, 2015)

Just wanted to mention and get more feedback.

I read an article where the Diamond had a 27.5+ Rekon mounted up on a standard 15x100 axle and had plenty of clearance. This was of course on a 29 sized fork.

Does anyone else have a picture of actual clearance. I am really thinking of building up a wheel set to run Rekons on my 5.5c as Rom3n in that thread is running the combo and loving it.

Here is the Article:

World's Funnest Bike Part III: Built ridden & reviewed&#8230; plus video! Now, SHOW US YOURS!!! - Cycling News non-stop


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So I'm still dialing in my Diamond, and I've got two things going on: I'm not reaching full travel even though my sag is in the recommended range, and the fork feels harsh when going fast over washboard/brake bump type terrain. I started with the base tune which felt pretty good, now I just need to dial in those two things and the fork will be perfect.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

matadorCE said:


> So I'm still dialing in my Diamond, and I've got two things going on: I'm not reaching full travel even though my sag is in the recommended range, and the fork feels harsh when going fast over washboard/brake bump type terrain. I started with the base tune which felt pretty good, now I just need to dial in those two things and the fork will be perfect.


Try unscrewing the top cap on the spring side and compress the fork, see if you get full travel. The air spring will be completely disengaged, so if it doesn't move all the way through the stroke it's clearly the damper. This happened to me and Ronnie had me send it in for a service. Full damper service and had it back in my bike within a week, no charge. Call em up.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

If it's not the damper it's clearly the air spring, you could try to dial back the HSC. Less pressure in the air chamber and less OTT should give you a more linear spring rate.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I just checked the fork by letting all the air out and it bottoms out no problem. I guess I'll back way off the HSC. I thought the OTT was just for the initial part of the travel?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

matadorCE said:


> I just checked the fork by letting all the air out and it bottoms out no problem. I guess I'll back way off the HSC. I thought the OTT was just for the initial part of the travel?


 That's exactly right. The idea being that more or less OTT will let you adjust the absolute air pressure while still achieving a specific sag measurement. So if you want run low pressure use less OTT and your fork won't sag too much.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)




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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

dubthang said:


> View attachment 1110845


Saw this and sent it to my girlfriend who is a mountain biker also and she loved it

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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

E13 TRS tires fit fine.


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## heybear_smooth (Dec 16, 2016)

Subscribed


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

2.8 Rekons fit in the 29er with tons of room









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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

may be a stupid question.... but.... do you turn the HSC clockwise to get it fully open / soft? LSC seems to be clockwise to get to '1', yet the manual states all dials/settings to be anti-clockwise to be fully open starting point.

Loving the fork but seems harsh over quick chunk.. maybe I've got the HSC maxed.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Pretty sure HSC is counter clockwise to open.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

FastBanana said:


> 2.8 Rekons fit in the 29er with tons of room
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have a pic of the whole fork with the decals? Looks pretty cool.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

661lee said:


> Do you have a pic of the whole fork with the decals? Looks pretty cool.












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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

:thumbsup:


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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

661lee said:


> Pretty sure HSC is counter clockwise to open.


so its the opposite direction to LSC?


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Overspeed said:


> so its the opposite direction to LSC?


Yes


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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

661lee said:


> Yes


thanks, finding the fork harsh over quick chunk no matter how much or little HSC I dial in. Played with different air pressures too, hands hurt on one particular trail.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Slow down rebound a touch?

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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

FastBanana said:


> Slow down rebound a touch?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


will try slowing down the rebound on the next ride, it rides great everywhere else.


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

I'm having the same problem with the fork being harsh over quick chunk. I have played with different air pressures and been through the whole range of OTT. Rebound is the only thing I have not messed with yet. I will try slowing the rebound also.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Have yall had other forks feel better? I think there is only so much to do over high speed chunck, before any fork is overwhelmed and youll feel it? 

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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

FastBanana said:


> Have yall had other forks feel better? I think there is only so much to do over high speed chunck, before any fork is overwhelmed and youll feel it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


had a pike previously, the hands actually hurt... will try relaxing my grip a bit also.


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

FastBanana said:


> Have yall had other forks feel better? I think there is only so much to do over high speed chunck, before any fork is overwhelmed and youll feel it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I guess I jumped on Overspeed's description of harsh. For me it's a spike. It spikes hard enough to throw me off lines I'm very familiar with. The same lines that other forks (Marz 66, Fox 36) have not had problems with. With those other forks I had issues with brake dive and peddle bob but not HSC spikes. Even on fire roads the stray rock that is hit causes havoc.

Everything else about this fork is great. If I can get rid of the spiking I will be very happy. 
If slowing the rebound doesn't help I'm going to ask DVO about a re shim of the high speed damper.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TerryLM said:


> I guess I jumped on Overspeed's description of harsh. For me it's a spike. It spikes hard enough to throw me off lines I'm very familiar with. The same lines that other forks (Marz 66, Fox 36) have not had problems with. With those other forks I had issues with brake dive and peddle bob but not HSC spikes. Even on fire roads the stray rock that is hit causes havoc.
> 
> Everything else about this fork is great. If I can get rid of the spiking I will be very happy.
> If slowing the rebound doesn't help I'm going to ask DVO about a re shim of the high speed damper.


Same problem I had. I would recommend sending it in to DVO for a revalve. I did that, I haven't used it since due to changing wheel-sizes, but they seemed eager to try and make it right.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I don't have any spiking issues on mine, but am a clydesdale, so need more high speed than most. Call DVO and speak to Ronnie. He will either explain how to reshim or have you send it in for a retune. Note that DVO is terrible at answering email, but amazing when you call. I literally had Ronnie offer to stay on the phone while I pulled the shim stacks on my emerald to retune it. 


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Thats awesome. Mine feels perfect on high speed too (i keep it failry open also) and I am 200 kitted up, and ride fairly aggressive. 

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm enjoying my Diamond, but given all the rain I installed the fender. It seems to have some oddly narrow points in there. I am using 2.35" tires, but they are Schwalbe so really more like 2.25", and the tire rubs on the fender. 

So much is right about this fork, to make a fender that has such little clearance seems like a pretty strange design mistake. 

Of course I will take it off in a week or so once we get sun again for the next 1,284 days here in SoCal.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Since you mentioned tight clearance with the fender, I'll ask- Anyone with a Diamond running a mudhugger?


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

On my bike I had a Hans Dampf on a Velocity P35 up front. I could not fit the fender on. I now have an e13 TRSr on the same wheel, and the fender barely fits.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I should have paid more attention- they specifically mention more clearance on the boost forks.


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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

anyone else's fork noisy? after compressing for a pump and lifting off its like a spring / matress type sound... pike was silent


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Jenson has Diamond 29/150 non boost on sale for $599. Both colors.
Ordered a black one.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> Jenson has Diamond 29/150 non boost on sale for $599. Both colors.
> Ordered a black one.


That's where I got mine 6 months ago. No problems yet.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Overspeed said:


> anyone else's fork noisy? after compressing for a pump and lifting off its like a spring / matress type sound... pike was silent


Contact DVO - there was damper shim issue that caused a click sound.


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

Cary said:


> I don't have any spiking issues on mine, but am a clydesdale, so need more high speed than most. Call DVO and speak to Ronnie. He will either explain how to reshim or have you send it in for a retune. Note that DVO is terrible at answering email, but amazing when you call. I literally had Ronnie offer to stay on the phone while I pulled the shim stacks on my emerald to retune it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tried slowing the rebound as FastBanana suggested. I slowly added 4 clicks. It did not help. After two clicks I had to start slowing the rebound in the rear. This made the bike too planted and dead feeling.

I just talked with Ronnie and I'm sending in to have him take a look at it and have it serviced. If it all checks out fine we will talk about a retune.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Sounds like the shim stack needs adjusting then for sure. 

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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

DVO lists the 29" Diamond Boost as 130-160 travel, is there anything keeping me from lowering it to 120?


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## freddok (Aug 8, 2013)

Losvar said:


> DVO lists the 29" Diamond Boost as 130-160 travel, is there anything keeping me from lowering it to 120?


I've the same question, but in the other direction... 160 to 170 on the same fork.
I've read on the Bike mag review is it possible ''with some internal tinkering''
DVO's New Forks and Shock | BIKE Magazine

I've not found any info nowhere. Some ideas ?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Contact DVO.


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## freddok (Aug 8, 2013)

:thumbsup:


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

freddok said:


> I've the same question, but in the other direction... 160 to 170 on the same fork.
> I've read on the Bike mag review is it possible ''with some internal tinkering''
> DVO's New Forks and Shock | BIKE Magazine
> 
> I've not found any info nowhere. Some ideas ?


Shortening it should be cool, other than the fact that there's only 3x 10cm clips included for travel reduction.

Extending it may or may not be possible but you'd have to ask DVO. It seems unlikely though, because the bushings are spaced ideally for a certain travel and extending them farther could mean the lower bushing is only partly engaged. Also the chassis isn't as sturdy as a 36 for example, and I think beyond 150mm travel it would start to get a bit noodley. Especially if you're a bigger rider.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Why would you lower it that much? Do you think you will notice 10mm? Dial the OTT in correctly, and use the extra 10mm for when you blow past it.


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

dubthang said:


> Why would you lower it that much? Do you think you will notice 10mm? Dial the OTT in correctly, and use the extra 10mm for when you blow past it.


It's going on a custom 29er hardtail meant for 120, just don't want to mess up the geo on a bike built specifically for 120 travel.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Why not check into a Sapphire. 100-140 travel.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> Why not check into a Sapphire. 100-140 travel.


And it's lighter.


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## Czar1 (Sep 26, 2016)

dubthang said:


> E13 TRS tires fit fine.
> 
> View attachment 1112272
> 
> ...


Hey dubthang,

Quick question for you, was planing to get the exact same tire. What internal rim width do you have and will the fender work with the E13 TRS tires? I have a Vredestein Bobcat on my 29er Diamond with 23mm internal width rims and I have almost no clearance less than the recommended 6mm.




















What does everyone else think is this too little clearance? I cant put the fender on without it rubbing.
Thanks!


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

If it doesn't rub I wouldn't worry.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

How good is the midstroke support without cranking in the lsc compared Rock a fox or rs? I hate the feeling of rushing into the hard end progression of a lyrik with 3 spacers. Otherwise it dives too much. 
Is this much better and how does it feel with the diamond?


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

buy vorsprung luftkappe. It cures initial harshness and "no midstroke support". Check graphs in luftkappe topic.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

nikon255 said:


> buy vorsprung luftkappe. It cures initial harshness and "no midstroke support". Check graphs in luftkappe topic.


I only HAD but do not still have a lyrik.only wanted to tell what I am looking for as I have a mattoc with IRT in my bike and am thinking about trying something new,instead of just taking another mattoc in my trailbike that is being built up.
So,how does the diamond behave in relation in that department?


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Diamond is great. Can be tuned to do almost anything you need. The one thing to bigger aware of, very light riders may need a different tune. Not an issue for me as I'm not light. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Im also curious of DVO. So far I calculated spring curve for Pike and LuftKapped Pike which I ride on and Suntour Epicon. Im not sure about Diamond but it uses negative coil spring, right? As I calculated it for Epicon (which also uses negative coil spring) volume of positive air spring, stiffness of negative spring and deflection at top out are important. All those got influence on midstroke support. Too stiff negative spring with little deflection causes stiff midstroke. Too soft negative spring with lot of deflection causes weak midstroke.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

bansaiman said:


> How good is the midstroke support without cranking in the lsc compared Rock a fox or rs? I hate the feeling of rushing into the hard end progression of a lyrik with 3 spacers. Otherwise it dives too much.
> Is this much better and how does it feel with the diamond?


IMO, the mid-stroke support is great, much better than the Fox 34 I was on previously. I run the LSC on the lightest setting 98% of the time.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I cannot stand wallow dive or mushy air spring as I weigh north of 200lb. I chose the Diamond specifically for the adjustable negative coil spring. I will say the fork has plenty of support - I didn't even have to change from DVO's baseline settings.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

keen said:


> I cannot stand wallow dive or mushy air spring as I weigh north of 200lb. I chose the Diamond specifically for the adjustable negative coil spring. I will say the fork has plenty of support - I didn't even have to change from DVO's baseline settings.


Ok thx, then I think, it will be another mattoc IRT or the diamond. Auron pcs and others are sourted out. 
Hope i get a good deal .


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Czar1 said:


> Hey dubthang,
> 
> Quick question for you, was planing to get the exact same tire. What internal rim width do you have and will the fender work with the E13 TRS tires? I have a Vredestein Bobcat on my 29er Diamond with 23mm internal width rims and I have almost no clearance less than the recommended 6mm.
> What does everyone else think is this too little clearance? I cant put the fender on without it rubbing.
> Thanks!


I run Velocity P35's. 35mm outer, and I believe the inside is just shy of 30mm. I can fit the fender with this setup, but it is too close for me to feel comfortable running it. When I had a Hans Dampf on the front, I had less than 3mm of clearance. It worked, but the underside of the brace is scarred. Never had a lockup moment, but things definitely squeezed through.


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## Czar1 (Sep 26, 2016)

dubthang said:


> I run Velocity P35's. 35mm outer, and I believe the inside is just shy of 30mm. I can fit the fender with this setup, but it is too close for me to feel comfortable running it. When I had a Hans Dampf on the front, I had less than 3mm of clearance. It worked, but the underside of the brace is scarred. Never had a lockup moment, but things definitely squeezed through.


Nice Thanks for the heads up! I think I will just go with the Maxxis Minion DHF 29" 2.30 Tire on the front and a DHR rear dont want to get new rims as well lol. Sucks because my bobcats are brand new and work great just too tight of a fit. Do you have any experience with the Maxxis tires?


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Czar1 said:


> Nice Thanks for the heads up! I think I will just go with the Maxxis Minion DHF 29" 2.30 Tire on the front and a DHR rear dont want to get new rims as well lol. Sucks because my bobcats are brand new and work great just too tight of a fit. Do you have any experience with the Maxxis tires?


I have the Maxxis fat tires on my Rocky Blizzard. They are ok. I really like the E13 tires so far. They seem to fit the fork well enough. I don't need the fender, and I'd rather run a great tire as opposed to a decent tire with a fender.


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## Czar1 (Sep 26, 2016)

dubthang said:


> I have the Maxxis fat tires on my Rocky Blizzard. They are ok. I really like the E13 tires so far. They seem to fit the fork well enough. I don't need the fender, and I'd rather run a great tire as opposed to a decent tire with a fender.


My only concern with the E13's which are my number once choice is the clearance with the brace, My wheels are only 23mm internal width so I feel like the wheel will ride a bit higher than yours and I would have the same problem as with the bobcats. How may mm clearance do you have with the E13's? Sorry for all the questions lol building a new bike so I want to make sure I get it right, already spent a small fortune.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

jkidd_39 said:


> Diamond is great. Can be tuned to do almost anything you need. The one thing to bigger aware of, very light riders may need a different tune. Not an issue for me as I'm not light.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


Define "very light." I'm 140lb.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Has someone ridden a proper set up Mattoc Pro WITH IRT and can give some info how both compare? Except weight and stiffness ;-) i know both have good dampers and service partners, but I' d like to know how they compare in midstroke support, sensitivity and composure in rough stuff, as the mattoc with IRT is a complete different beast than the single air version. 
Cheers


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

is the dvo diamond 650B boost has more tyre clearance than standard? 

Also how good is this dvo diamond compared to Pike/Lyrik?


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

rave81 said:


> is the dvo diamond 650B boost has more tyre clearance than standard?
> 
> Also how good is this dvo diamond compared to Pike/Lyrik?


Not sure about clearance but dvo blows the pike and lyric out of the water no comparison.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Raleighguy29 said:


> Not sure about clearance but dvo blows the pike and lyric out of the water no comparison.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Could you please measure the space of the fork?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

For anyone who is interested in getting more performance out of the diamond, try flipping the piston upside down in the compression assembly. It allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff. 
Also I've found that the air spring is too linear. I took a set of 32mm tokens and ground the top one down so it could be press fit into the top cap. Now I have an adjustable air volume system. I initially tried oil but it tends to migrate to the lowers over time and the fork starts using too much travel. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

rave81 said:


> Could you please measure the space of the fork?


I'd do it for ya guy but I don't have the boost version. You should call DVO.


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

FastBanana said:


> Sounds like the shim stack needs adjusting then for sure.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I got a hold of Ronnie and we had a good talk about the spiking I was experiencing. I sent it in and they gave it a service and they called me back and said the fork checked out fine. We talked some more about the spiking and he said they would adjusted the shim stack.

I have been riding the fork for a couple months now since Ronnie adjusted the shim stack and it feels great. The spiking is gone and I now running around 12 clicks of HSC (from full open). Cornering traction is also much better which I did not realize was suffering before the adjustment. I'm very pleased with the forks performance now.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

rollertoaster said:


> For anyone who is interested in getting more performance out of the diamond, try flipping the piston upside down in the compression assembly. It allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff.
> Also I've found that the air spring is too linear. I took a set of 32mm tokens and ground the top one down so it could be press fit into the top cap. Now I have an adjustable air volume system. I initially tried oil but it tends to migrate to the lowers over time and the fork starts using too much travel.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


I too found the air spring too linear. I asked DVO about adding oil to the air spring and they didn't entertain that option they suggested playing with the OTT and air pressures. It was a trade off going that route so I added oil. 35cc later I had some cushion @ the end of the stroke.
I had not used the bike much this winter but noticed the fork was too linear again and assumed my oil had migrated into the lowers. Pulled the lowers and there wasn't more than the other side. Turns out the fork was just low on air... havn't had an air fork lose air in years so I hope there isn't an issue here.
The Tokens sounds like a good idea!


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

rollertoaster said:


> For anyone who is interested in getting more performance out of the diamond, try flipping the piston upside down in the compression assembly. It allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff.
> Also I've found that the air spring is too linear. I took a set of 32mm tokens and ground the top one down so it could be press fit into the top cap. Now I have an adjustable air volume system. I initially tried oil but it tends to migrate to the lowers over time and the fork starts using too much travel.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


I was thinking I need a better way than oil to add volume to the air spring . 
The oil doesn't stay in the air chamber for long, so thanks for your input I'll give this a try along with the piston flip.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

FYI I have having trouble calibrating my shockwiz. I found that if I calibrate it at 0psi as per the instructions I get inaccurate readings. I believe that this is because the air piston is not physically attached to the negative spring / air spring rod. 

My solution is to calibrate with 5psi in the chamber to allow the piston to follow the rod and get an accurate volume measurement 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## Overspeed (Jan 9, 2017)

rollertoaster said:


> FYI I have having trouble calibrating my shockwiz. I found that if I calibrate it at 0psi as per the instructions I get inaccurate readings. I believe that this is because the air piston is not physically attached to the negative spring / air spring rod.
> 
> My solution is to calibrate with 5psi in the chamber to allow the piston to follow the rod and get an accurate volume measurement
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


what CR are you getting? I had 1.5 at 0psi

Will try 5psi


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm getting 3.6. 

BUT.... it's giving me bogus suggestions despite the calibration staying green. Keeps telling me to drop pressure and remove compression. It's feeling worse and worse. 
So we may need to fudge the compression ratio to get Decent results. 
I spoke with Ronnie today and we agree the ott (and mechanical negative spring) may be affecting the results of shockwiz. I'll keep everyone posted when i figure this out. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm beginning to think shock just isn't going to work on this fork. I get the worst tuning score just about when the fork feels best. 
My current setup :
Compression piston flipped (allows more lsc with smoother hsc blow off) 
123psi 2 tokens (20cc)
Lsc 3
Hsc 1.75 turns from fully open 
Fast-ish rebound 
Ott one turn out from fully sensitive 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

There's something to be said for tuning the fork to what rides good...


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## ^Marciano (Oct 1, 2009)

keen said:


> I too found the air spring too linear. I asked DVO about adding oil to the air spring and they didn't entertain that option they suggested playing with the OTT and air pressures. It was a trade off going that route so I added oil. 35cc later I had some cushion @ the end of the stroke.
> I had not used the bike much this winter but noticed the fork was too linear again and assumed my oil had migrated into the lowers. Pulled the lowers and there wasn't more than the other side. Turns out the fork was just low on air... havn't had an air fork lose air in years so I hope there isn't an issue here.
> The Tokens sounds like a good idea!


photo please


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Just finished reducing the travel to 140mm on my Non-boost Diamond. Was having trouble removing the green cap with the pin spanner a until I called DVO and they gave me some alternative directions. I hadn't seen them anywhere, so I thought I'd share. 

Essentially go at the top out spring from the other side. Clamp the 10mm shaft and remove the small green cap under the bottom out bumper with a wrench. Will need to use a heat gun to soften the thread locker. Next flip the cartridge over and clamp the 30mm tube near the green cap you were going to removed with the pin spanner. Use the 32mm socket (and heat gun ) to remove the top of the air cartiage and you can shove the whole internal assembly through the top. When going back together 5cc of fluid on top of the piston and 20cc below. 

Haven't gotten to ride the fork yet, but used the DVO base tune for the initial setup. I weigh 185lbs. DVO calls for 125-130psi at my weight but to achieve 15% sag I'm running only 100psi. Is this due to lowering the travel? As there is now a smaller air volume? Or is something not right? Would I use the same base tune or somthing different as the pressure is different? 

What is everyone running pressure/settings wise? 

Stats for reference :
Male 
5'11"
185lbs

Fork set at 140mm on size Large Canfield Brothers Riot (66.5°headtube).

Intermediate/advanced rider in the the northeast USA. Mostly rocky, rooty, singletrack on rolling hills.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Tuned for my liking my Diamond doesn't sag much. Run the base tune and see how the fork performs... don't fixate on the sag #'s.


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. 

Interesting about sag. Does this have to do with the coil negative spring? I have a Manitou minute with MARS air that is funky to set up the spring as it is air/coil hybrid. 

How did you determine the correct psi? Just by feel/dvo setup guide?


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

grok22 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Interesting about sag. Does this have to do with the coil negative spring? I have a Manitou minute with MARS air that is funky to set up the spring as it is air/coil hybrid.
> 
> How did you determine the correct psi? Just by feel/dvo setup guide?


I had a Manitou Minute 29 and despite its past popularity I thought the fork was way too linear.

I am really close to DVO's base tune. I would definitely hit the trails, running the base tune, before making any driveway assessments. I tune a suspension based on feel through trial & error of spring & damper adjustments. A suspension is all about control & compliance. Do make adjustments and note the effects on bike ride / control. I will say the DVO performed great @ the base tune & really didn't need major tweeking.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

So I just got mine installed. Base tune calls for OTT +4 turns. I really like the feel at +8 turns. Sag is still at 20%. Any negative effects from running more OTT? Aside from cranking it all the way up and making it wallow, obviously


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

No negative effects, I run 10-12 turns of OTT on mine.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

With all the pics of tire clearance on the non-boost version of this fork I'm nervous about ordering. I run a schwalbe magic mary on a stans flow MK3 that ends up being 2.45 width with rather tall knobs.

If I had cheaper hubs it wouldn't bother me to rebuild the wheel to something else but a new King hub is going to cost me $250 =/- not to mention the up-charge for the boost version.

I wonder if I could get the fork and "lightly" mount my wheel/tire to check clearance before installing?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

terrible said:


> With all the pics of tire clearance on the non-boost version of this fork I'm nervous about ordering. I run a schwalbe magic mary on a stans flow MK3 that ends up being 2.45 width with rather tall knobs.
> 
> If I had cheaper hubs it wouldn't bother me to rebuild the wheel to something else but a new King hub is going to cost me $250 =/- not to mention the up-charge for the boost version.
> 
> I wonder if I could get the fork and "lightly" mount my wheel/tire to check clearance before installing?


I know for a fact your tire will fit. My friend has that exact tire on his Diamond with the fender on and there are about 4mm of clearance. The tightest spots are under the fender, not the arch.

My 2.5 Minion DHF on 25mm-internal rims also clears with the same amount of space.


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

terrible said:


> With all the pics of tire clearance on the non-boost version of this fork I'm nervous about ordering. I run a schwalbe magic mary on a stans flow MK3 that ends up being 2.45 width with rather tall knobs.
> 
> If I had cheaper hubs it wouldn't bother me to rebuild the wheel to something else but a new King hub is going to cost me $250 =/- not to mention the up-charge for the boost version.
> 
> I wonder if I could get the fork and "lightly" mount my wheel/tire to check clearance before installing?


on the front, the boost spacing is purely a difference on the non disc side

change of axle is all you will need, not a complete new hub

we recently converted a hope pro 4 hub from 100x15 to 110x15, all it involved was a different hub end cap for the non disc side and a re-dish of the wheel


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

on my second set of Diamond's now and still loving them!

sold the green ones with the Nomad recently and silverfish sorted me out a good deal on the black 160's for the new Canyon


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

stevenEK9 said:


> on the front, the boost spacing is purely a difference on the non disc side
> 
> change of axle is all you will need, not a complete new hub
> 
> we recently converted a hope pro 4 hub from 100x15 to 110x15, all it involved was a different hub end cap for the non disc side and a re-dish of the wheel


The King hubs have a one piece axle that doesn't allow for end caps. I've looked into it and called a few weeks ago about having them make an axle that was 5mm longer on each side and then using one of the many 5mm 6 bolt rotor spacers. They suggested I buy the proper hub (at 270$)

But if I can fit my beloved magic mary on the non-boost I'd much rather go that route.

That leaves me enough money to also swap out the monarch+ for the dvo topaz shock at the same time. 

Thanks for the info y'all!


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

terrible said:


> The King hubs have a one piece axle that doesn't allow for end caps. I've looked into it and called a few weeks ago about having them make an axle that was 5mm longer on each side and then using one of the many 5mm 6 bolt rotor spacers. They suggested I buy the proper hub (at 270$)
> 
> But if I can fit my beloved magic mary on the non-boost I'd much rather go that route.
> 
> ...


I realise that regarding the end caps, i've worked on numerous ck setups and owned them too

What i'm saying is if you swap out the axle on your hub with the axle from the boost hub then voila - sorted. Both ck front hubs use nigh on the same body just the axle is 10mm longer on the non disc side

The extra length on the axle is on the non disc side since one of the big sellers of boost setups is running less dish for stronger wheels

The clearance on the non boost fork is not bad - i run a 2.3 minion dhf (much better than a mary btw) on 30mm internal rims and clears fine even in the scottish mud 

What i would like to see is either dvo or an aftermarket produce a longer more effective fender which mounts up like the standard one


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Wow that's awesome! I was not aware I could use the boost axle in the nonnboost CK hub!

That saves some huge hassle. As soon as my buddy gets back from the mountains I'm borrowing his axle to double check and that really opens some options on forks.

Thanks!


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

terrible said:


> With all the pics of tire clearance on the non-boost version of this fork I'm nervous about ordering. I run a schwalbe magic mary on a stans flow MK3 that ends up being 2.45 width with rather tall knobs.
> 
> If I had cheaper hubs it wouldn't bother me to rebuild the wheel to something else but a new King hub is going to cost me $250 =/- not to mention the up-charge for the boost version.
> 
> I wonder if I could get the fork and "lightly" mount my wheel/tire to check clearance before installing?


My Hans Dampf measures out the same on my 30mm iw wheels. No problems.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> My Hans Dampf measures out the same on my 30mm iw wheels. No problems.


I posted a pic on the previous page of my nonboost Diamond with a HD stuffed in it. I had about 3mm of clearance when it was mounted to a Velocity P35 rim.

I now have a E13 tire up front on the same rim, and it clears fine.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Hans and magic Mary will clear fine on a non boost diamond. (29mm inner width stans rims) 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

WTB Vigilante 29 Fast Rolling Light on a Light-Bicycle 38mm hoop. Not much clearance.

Had a Minion 2.5 on a Stans ZTR Flow hoop on earlier this morning for my first ride on the Diamond. It picked up rocks and scratched my brand new fork. Grrr I wish I had read about tire clearance last week before ordering.


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

sorted out the mud guard woes........

standard DVO one is a bit useless, swapped out for a Mudhugger shorty

Non boost 27.5 Diamond
Mudhugger shorty
30mm internal rims
2.3 Minion DHF tyre










plenty clearance! also running a full guard will mean the mud won't scrape away at the fork paint, less mud in the eyes and less mud collecting around the seals - perfect

frame is away for warranty hence the fork by itself, did test the wheel in and plenty clearance! will get a better pic soon


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## MyMilkExpired (Nov 1, 2010)

For those wondering about the boost version. Here is a 29x2.6 NN on i29 KOM.


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

I've been on an MRP stage fork for the last 2 years. It's pretty much flawless. Has anyone here ridden a Stage and a Diamond? I would love to hear how they compare. Very tempted by the Jenson USA sale for the 29er version. Love my Stage but itching to try something new.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

DirtDiggler said:


> I've been on an MRP stage fork for the last 2 years. It's pretty much flawless. Has anyone here ridden a Stage and a Diamond? I would love to hear how they compare. Very tempted by the Jenson USA sale for the 29er version. Love my Stage but itching to try something new.


I have a stage on my epo and full dvo on my riot. Both forks are incredible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I have a stage on my epo and full dvo on my riot. Both forks are incredible.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. How much do you weigh? Do you have any issues with bottoming out on the Diamond compared to your Stage? If you had to keep one fork which one would you keep?


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks. How much do you weigh? Do you have any issues with bottoming out on the Diamond compared to your Stage? If you had to keep one fork which one would you keep?


I weigh about 220 on the heavy side depending on the ride I'm doing that day. I've never had a problem with bottom out on either fork. I've had my riot to windrock downhill park and snow shoe. And if I had to keep one ...man that's a tuff one their both so good but I'd probably keep the dvo. It's just that much more supple off the top.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I weigh about 220 on the heavy side depending on the ride I'm doing that day. I've never had a problem with bottom out on either fork. I've had my riot to windrock downhill park and snow shoe. And if I had to keep one ...man that's a tuff one their both so good but I'd probably keep the dvo. It's just that much more supple off the top.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks man! That really helps. Just pulled the trigger on one. I weigh about 210 with gear and I tend to bottom out my Stage occationally. I got nervous because I read a bunch of complaints about this fork here and on PB and then realized 95% of the negative talk was from the same exact poster...ha ha! How are you liking the Riot?


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks man! That really helps. Just pulled the trigger on one. I weigh about 210 with gear and I tend to bottom out my Stage occationally. I got nervous because I read a bunch of complaints about this fork here and on PB and then realized 95% of the negative talk was from the same exact poster...ha ha! How are you liking the Riot?


I absolutely love the riot. I've had it to 2 bikes parks doing lift assist riding. And I've put about a 1000 miles on it and it's been awesome. I love it and my epo so much that I'm getting ready to add a balance to the fleet

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Is there a video on how to service the damper and air side of the diamond?


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Have lowered the air pressure from 127 to 115, set the hsc to 6 clicks from full open, lsc to 1, and 8 full rotations of OTT and the fork is more sensitive and compliant but still feels kinda harsh on medium size bumps.
Going in to DVO tomorrow to have Ronnie retune the internals on both the diamond and topaz to get more sensitivity and hopefully give me a plush ride that soaks up everything within reason and with just enough support and bottom out resistance with some pedaling efficiency at least with the climb switch on. On some small bumps it feels great and others it's not.
Don't really ride too aggressive anymore and want an all around plush ride on the trail so when doing slow climbs the suspension stays active with good traction but still handles descending.since I'm on the lower end of the air pressure and shock settings I'm thinking if they make the fork and shock more sensitive then I can use more air pressure and settings to put me closer to the middle of the specs and fine tune to my liking....


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

rollertoaster said:


> For anyone who is interested in getting more performance out of the diamond, try flipping the piston upside down in the compression assembly. It allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff.
> Also I've found that the air spring is too linear. I took a set of 32mm tokens and ground the top one down so it could be press fit into the top cap. Now I have an adjustable air volume system. I initially tried oil but it tends to migrate to the lowers over time and the fork starts using too much travel.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


I'm interested in doing this and ordered 32mm tokens for the air spring. I opened the damper up and pulled the compression assembly out...I'm confused as to what I would flip over. I played with the shims a bit...removed a couple from the beginning (2nd and 3rd) of the stack and put it back together. Are you talking just flipping the green part with the glide ring?

I am also struggling with getting and help from my shockwiz with this fork. I got to 100% once so far but it definitely didn't feel great...


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

marti163 said:


> I'm interested in doing this and ordered 32mm tokens for the air spring. I opened the damper up and pulled the compression assembly out...I'm confused as to what I would flip over. I played with the shims a bit...removed a couple from the beginning (2nd and 3rd) of the stack and put it back together. Are you talking just flipping the green part with the glide ring?
> 
> I am also struggling with getting and help from my shockwiz with this fork. I got to 100% once so far but it definitely didn't feel great...


Put the shims back in and flip the green piston upside down. Forget about shockwiz on this fork. About all its good for is setting hsc. 
I run either 2 or 3 for lsc (3 for smooth berms, 2 for rough stuff) 
Hsc about 2 turns in from full open. 
Rebound about 10 clicks from full open (if I run it much slower i get fatigue in my hands) 
Air is at 123 psi with 2.5 tokens.

I'm about 195-200 geared up and ride pretty hard/fast. I had a few hard landings this weekend that bottomed everyone in the groups dh forks. Not once did I feel a bottom out but I still used full travel.

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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

Cool thanks...what about ott? I'm about 165lbs and ride mostly rough trails and may still play with the shims a bit as well. I was surprised how easy it was to pull the compression assembly.


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

Vittoria Morsa 2.35 on same wheels


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## tyreed70 (Jan 7, 2010)

Snowsed341 said:


> Just wanted to mention and get more feedback.
> 
> I read an article where the Diamond had a 27.5+ Rekon mounted up on a standard 15x100 axle and had plenty of clearance. This was of course on a 29 sized fork.
> 
> ...


I have the same question.. Anyone try running 27.5 tires on a 29 non boost diamond?
If so I would imagine about 2.5 is as wide as you can go?


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Anyone ridden the new fox 36 2018. How does it compare to diamond? I'm still in decision stages which fork should I get. My factors are 
Availability of parts, service kit or rebuild kit ride quality, easy tuning or durability


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

rave81 said:


> Anyone ridden the new fox 36 2018. How does it compare to diamond? I'm still in decision stages which fork should I get. My factors are
> Availability of parts, service kit or rebuild kit ride quality, easy tuning or durability


The new 36 is the only other fork I'd consider beside the Diamond at the moment.

But, just wait a little for the Onyx SC. That'll be a 36 killer for sure.


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

Wonder when the Onyx SC is coming, think my Diamond feels a bit noodly


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

eicca said:


> The new 36 is the only other fork I'd consider beside the Diamond at the moment.
> 
> But, just wait a little for the Onyx SC. That'll be a 36 killer for sure.


Onyx is only announced as a dh fork...


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

rave81 said:


> Onyx is only announced as a dh fork...


Nope, Onyx single crown has been promised too, and it will be glorious!


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

marti163 said:


> Cool thanks...what about ott? I'm about 165lbs and ride mostly rough trails and may still play with the shims a bit as well. I was surprised how easy it was to pull the compression assembly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I generally run one turn out from max ott

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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Currently my OTT is maxed out, with my HSC 5 clicks from full open and running 105 psi in the air spring down from the recommended 127 psi. I weigh 180 and these settings gave me a more active fork.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

So I bought a used diamond fork. It seems in good shape until I opened it up to do a travel change. Whomever tried to remove the bottom cap (green) just about ruined the tool inserts. I'm guessing they didn't heat the lower part of the cartridge to loosen the lock-tight.

I was able to remove the air shaft from the top of the cartridge but I want to replace the green cap so I can do a normal service on the fork.

Has anyone contacted DVO about getting just that part instead of the whole air shaft kit ($110)?


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

You should just call them....
Speak to Ronnie, he personally worked on my fork and shock tune to get it to my liking. They are super helpful and will do whatever they can to get you taken care of.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Also, with the non boost version when I want to run 160mm travel should I leave one spacer on the air shaft?

Pulled them all off and the fork has a terrible top out.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

You might be better off sending it to DVO and let them do a full service on it.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Figured out a few things. Had a weird top out clunk and play in air spring. The PO had removed the green nut at the bottom of the air shaft to shove the negative springs up through the top of the chamber instead of removing the green spanner nut on the bottom. 

The green foot nut had backed off the air shaft and was letting the shaft move up and down in the lowers. Pulled apart (again) cleaned and lock tight'd the nut in the shaft and all is well.

Before if I would try to adjust the OTT it would loosen the air shaft instead of moving the OTT preload.

Heading out for a ride soon!

Also, What brand of oil are you guys using for the damper and splash oil in the lowers?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

I used 20cc of Golden Spectro 125/150 as splash oil in both legs (7.5wt equivalent). DVO also uses Golden Spectro and recommends not using RS or Maxima oil in any DVO product.


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

rollertoaster said:


> Put the shims back in and flip the green piston upside down. Forget about shockwiz on this fork. About all its good for is setting hsc.
> I run either 2 or 3 for lsc (3 for smooth berms, 2 for rough stuff)
> Hsc about 2 turns in from full open.
> Rebound about 10 clicks from full open (if I run it much slower i get fatigue in my hands)
> ...


I flipped the compression piston over Wednesday night and have 2 rides on the fork with the stock shim stack configuration and the flipped piston. For my weight (165-170)I liked the 1 position on LSC... a couple clicks of HSC, 117psi, one RS 32mm token and 7 turns OTT. This fork is amazing now! Thanks for posting the flipped piston idea. It's like a whole new fork!

I have been struggling to get this fork feeling like I want for nearly a year. It's been back to ronnie twice...one for the top out clunk issue and once for new uppers (creaking). Both times DVO's service was amazing and fast. Makes we want to buy a Topaz and I don't even need one!

BTW... did Ronnie tell you flip that piston over or did you just try it?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

marti163 said:


> I flipped the compression piston over Wednesday night and have 2 rides on the fork with the stock shim stack configuration and the flipped piston. For my weight (165-170)I liked the 1 position on LSC... a couple clicks of HSC, 117psi, one RS 32mm token and 7 turns OTT. This fork is amazing now! Thanks for posting the flipped piston idea. It's like a whole new fork!
> 
> I have been struggling to get this fork feeling like I want for nearly a year. It's been back to ronnie twice...one for the top out clunk issue and once for new uppers (creaking). Both times DVO's service was amazing and fast. Makes we want to buy a Topaz and I don't even need one!
> 
> BTW... did Ronnie tell you flip that piston over or did you just try it?


Ronnie gave me that tip. It can also be done on the lsc piston in the topaz but in the topaz it requires some additional shims to function correctly.
I'm glad you are enjoying the mods. I can't imagine a fork feeling much better than the diamond with these mods.

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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Really liking my diamond. Pulled things apart this weekend and did a lower leg "quick" service of new oil , cleaning the foam and tossing in some golden spektro oil.

Working really well and looking forward to hitting a lift access park in a week or two.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I saw a few mention using RS tokens in this fork. How do you do that?


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

Doug said:


> I saw a few mention using RS tokens in this fork. How do you do that?


I put a couple rounds of electrical tape around a 32mm rs token and gently pressed it into the top of the air cartridge. Too tight to fall down but loose enough to pull out with a hooked pick.

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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Any pics or a write up on flipping the piston? Mine is factory-tuned with super light compression (as in fully closed HSC feels like 1/3-closed on a normal fork) and it feels incredible. But, if it gets even better from here, why not?


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

eicca said:


> Any pics or a write up on flipping the piston? Mine is factory-tuned with super light compression (as in fully closed HSC feels like 1/3-closed on a normal fork) and it feels incredible. But, if it gets even better from here, why not?


It's possible that Ronnie may have flipped your piston as part of your initial tune. If you want to check you can pull the compression assembly and compare it to an image of a dvo compression loader on google(that's what I did to verify I hadn't flipped mine on accident). I haven't even been bleeding mine after pulling the compression assembly. Just topping off with 2.5 at oil(not much needed), and reinstalling the assembly with the bleed screw removed so oil flows out the top. I figure it's not drawing air down deeper as long as I don't cycle the fork while it's all open. So far so good.

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## Axa (Aug 26, 2009)

Have anyone else suggested to DVO that an integrated fender in the size of the muddhugger would be a sweet upgrade for this amazing fork!? Might happen if enough show interest for it..


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## piperpilot964 (Dec 28, 2014)

So cannot wait for my diamond to get back in my hands, its in for basic love and attention from Ronnie. Been ridding the Pike for about two weeks (I was lazy about shipping the DVO out) and gawwwd I miss my Diamond. The Pike is like a noodle in comparison, a trail fork trying to be something more. Just replaced my monarch plus with a Topaz and well, just about as evolutionary a change as the Diamond is over a Pike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

piperpilot964 said:


> So cannot wait for my diamond to get back in my hands, its in for basic love and attention from Ronnie. Been ridding the Pike for about two weeks (I was lazy about shipping the DVO out) and gawwwd I miss my Diamond. The Pike is like a noodle in comparison, a trail fork trying to be something more. Just replaced my monarch plus with a Topaz and well, just about as evolutionary a change as the Diamond is over a Pike.


Really? I ran both and chassis wise, they are damn near the exact same thing.

Did you have a special one-off 40mm Diamond or something?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Really? I ran both and chassis wise, they are damn near the exact same thing.
> 
> Did you have a special one-off 40mm Diamond or something?


Totem!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone got the correct torque specs for the top caps and footnuts? The manual and the torque list has conflicting figures (big difference) have asked Roni but not received a clear answer.


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

Who has ridden 2018 Fox 36 HSC/LSC float AND the DVO Diamond (boost or otherwise) and can provide direct comparison. Have Topaz out back and love it, think pairing with the Diamond would be good, but have heard so many positive reviews of the Fox 36 (especially 2018). DVO would be a couple hundred cheaper for me...


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

The 18 F36 is bad ass. I have a 170 RC. I like the new spring, and the damper is great. I run a fair amount of compression, and pressure a touch on the high side. Feels really supportive and really stiff.

Had a DVO Diamond in 2016, it was a more plush fork off the top, and a little less supportive. I added some oil to the air spring to firm it up. Ran the pressure about 20 psi higher than recommended. I didnt feel like the HSC did much, but I also didn't make any effort to change the shim stack. I have a boost 29er 160 on the way for a new build though. So I like it, but not as much as my Fox.

Really, just comes down to weather you like a plush fork, or a supportive/firm one.


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

Went with the 18 Fox 36. Tough choice, but I got a good deal on it. The Diamond looks awesome but I couldn't get the same deal on a boost Diamond, only standard so it wasn't going to work for me 

Still love my Topaz out back!


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

FYI worldwidecyclery has an awesome deal on the boost diamond right now. Buddy of mine bought a green version and the next week black was in stock so I bought one.

Still have my non boost diamond that's going on my niner ros.

I like that I don't have to use a spanner to open the air chamber on the boost version too. Just a 27mm open end.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

teK-- said:


> Anyone got the correct torque specs for the top caps and footnuts? The manual and the torque list has conflicting figures (big difference) have asked Roni but not received a clear answer.


No replies, does that mean none of the owners here have opened up their fork???


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

teK-- said:


> No replies, does that mean none of the owners here have opened up their fork???


It's called German tight

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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

teK-- said:


> No replies, does that mean none of the owners here have opened up their fork???


http://tech.dvosuspension.com/service-guides/diamond/torque-specs/


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

keen said:


> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/service-guides/diamond/torque-specs/


Yeah thanks but you will see that list is contrary to the figures shown in the service manual, which states the footnut is a whopping 25Nm, and the top caps to 20Nm.

After doing a service I would agree that the torque specs sheet showing 10Nm and 15Nm respectively, seems much closer to how tight they were assembled from factory. There is no way I would crank the footnuts to 25Nm.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

*Damper bleed service*

Does anyone know where to buy the 'oil catch container' ? Or something else that can be improv'ed as it seems it is just something that needs to keep the bleed screw area immersed in oil.

Maybe just tape a small open plastic ziplock bag around the top of the damper assembly and fill it with oil?


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

teK-- said:


> Does anyone know where to buy the 'oil catch container' ? Or something else that can be improv'ed as it seems it is just something that needs to keep the bleed screw area immersed in oil.
> 
> Maybe just tape a small open plastic ziplock bag around the top of the damper assembly and fill it with oil?
> 
> View attachment 1164553


I made one out of a pool plumbing fitting...but Ronnie said a cough syrup cup with the bottom cut out works well.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Sounds good thanks for your reply.


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

teK-- said:


> Sounds good thanks for your reply.


Ronnie did say they were working on making something available for purchase...but I don't think it is out yet.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Thinking about it further I reckon just cut a bit of inner tube slip it over the whole top part of the damper head and a zip tie around to hold. Will be just fine for a task that is only once every 100 hours


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

teK-- said:


> Thinking about it further I reckon just cut a bit of inner tube slip it over the whole top part of the damper head and a zip tie around to hold. Will be just fine for a task that is only once every 100 hours


Trickiest part was making sure whatever you use let's in enough light to find the bleed port. The one I made isn't tapered and made it more difficult. Cough syrup cup or a cut down funnel would probably be your best bet.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

marti163 said:


> Trickiest part was making sure whatever you use let's in enough light to find the bleed port. The one I made isn't tapered and made it more difficult. Cough syrup cup or a cut down funnel would probably be your best bet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah that makes sense. Nothing a torch can't fix! Or use a syringe to suck the level of oil down in the catchment area just until you can see the bleed port.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

rollertoaster said:


> For anyone who is interested in getting more performance out of the diamond, try flipping the piston upside down in the compression assembly. It allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff.
> Also I've found that the air spring is too linear. I took a set of 32mm tokens and ground the top one down so it could be press fit into the top cap. Now I have an adjustable air volume system. I initially tried oil but it tends to migrate to the lowers over time and the fork starts using too much travel.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Thanks for sharing.

To be sure, is this the part I am meant to be flipping? I assume it can be done just by undoing the nut at the bottom of the stack?

Once completed did you find you had to change your compression or rebound settings to compensate?

Cheers.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> To be sure, is this the part I am meant to be flipping? I assume it can be done just by undoing the nut at the bottom of the stack?
> 
> ...


Just the bottom piece. Carefully unscrew and remove the shims on the top of the piston and set on a clean towel. Remove the piston and flip. Put the shims back the way they came off and reinstall the nut.

I ended up with about 12 clicks of high speed after, versus 2 before. Keep in mind, the diamond also has a midvalve, so some high speed goes through that.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks for the tips. Have read all the comments in here re the piston flip and cannot wait to get it done! Just waiting for the 2.5w oil to arrive hopefully later in the week.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

teK-- said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> To be sure, is this the part I am meant to be flipping? I assume it can be done just by undoing the nut at the bottom of the stack?
> 
> ...


It only affects the compression circuit so rebound is the same. But yes it changes the settings a little bit.

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I tried flippin the piston and to be honest i hated it. far to much low speed compression for my liking. what you could try is flip the piston and remove the ring and center shim as this adds preload for the low speed.

after quite a few different setups i went back to the stock settings


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dlocki said:


> I tried flippin the piston and to be honest i hated it. far to much low speed compression for my liking. what you could try is flip the piston and remove the ring and center shim as this adds preload for the low speed.
> 
> after quite a few different setups i went back to the stock settings


Interesting. Are you the original owner? I wonder if your piston was already flipped from the factory or by someone else? Flipping the piston should increase flow through the high speed stack and cause it to open sooner, and in turn have less low speed compression. I also wonder if the standard stack has changed over time, as the stack in mine, and those which others have pulled apart don't use a ring shim, just a simple tapered stack.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Cary said:


> Interesting. Are you the original owner? I wonder if your piston was already flipped from the factory or by someone else? Flipping the piston should increase flow through the high speed stack and cause it to open sooner, and in turn have less low speed compression. I also wonder if the standard stack has changed over time, as the stack in mine, and those which others have pulled apart don't use a ring shim, just a simple tapered stack.
> 
> View attachment 1165291


I had one apart earlier. The one I had apart had a ring shim in the stack and had the piston with the face pointing up in that photo facing the check valve.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Rick Draper said:


> I had one apart earlier. The one I had apart had a ring shim in the stack and had the piston with the face pointing up in that photo facing the check valve.


Going from my memory (which is dangerous), it sounds like the piston was in the original position and the shim stack may have changed over time. I will have to pull mine apart and look at the stack and compare it to my sons just received Boost version.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Excuse my ignorance but what does a ring shim look like? If I pull mine apart and the shim stack is different from the photo should i avoid flipping the Piston?

The piston in the photo looks like it has a glide ring but later ones have an o ring. Not sure if this makes any difference.

My diamond is only a month old but no idea what the production date was.

Thanks.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what does a ring shim look like? If I pull mine apart and the shim stack is different from the photo should i avoid flipping the Piston?
> 
> The piston in the photo looks like it has a glide ring but later ones have an o ring. Not sure if this makes any difference.
> 
> ...


The photo is from when then they were introduced. A ring shim is a small shim with a thicker shim around it (think a small fender washer with a larger regular washer concentric with it). The purpose is to provide a little preload to the high speed stack and make it digressive.

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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Here is a photo of a ring shim. Please ignore the language about it effecting low speed. That applies when using a staged stack, which we don't have here.









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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks that makes sense. So the (presumably later revision) shim stacks with the ring shim, will have an earlier/softer transition from LSC into HSC?. Someone else also mentioned there is a mid valve and that some of the mid range flow will go through that as well.

In that case, is it still beneficial to flip the piston on the later stacks that have the ring shim? I should be able to eyeball the shimstack pretty easily when I remove the compression loader to do the bleed, so it is not too painful to abort the mission thereon.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

teK-- said:


> Thanks that makes sense. So the (presumably later revision) shim stacks with the ring shim, will have an earlier/softer transition from LSC into HSC?. Someone else also mentioned there is a mid valve and that some of the mid range flow will go through that as well.
> 
> In that case, is it still beneficial to flip the piston on the later stacks that have the ring shim? I should be able to eyeball the shimstack pretty easily when I remove the compression loader to do the bleed, so it is not too painful to abort the mission thereon.


Ive had two pairs of diamonds - and both have had the ring shim in.

For me - if you want the fork to descend better leave the piston in the stock position then remove the ring/centre shim, the downside is you loose the LSC settings 4/5/6 and the fork bobs more but its a beast of a bump eating fork. I ran my first pair of forks like this for the entire time i had them.

I tried flipping the piston and i didn't think it felt much different riding the fork apart for more LSC - which i didnt want.

my current pair im on a totally stock stack and i think its great. probably 75% of the riding is uphill in the UK so i use the LSC quite alot when climbing


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Cary said:


> Interesting. Are you the original owner? I wonder if your piston was already flipped from the factory or by someone else? Flipping the piston should increase flow through the high speed stack and cause it to open sooner, and in turn have less low speed compression. I also wonder if the standard stack has changed over time, as the stack in mine, and those which others have pulled apart don't use a ring shim, just a simple tapered stack.
> 
> yes im the original owner


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

*Confused!!*

Just trying to make some heads and tails out of all the different feedback posted about the piston-flipping mod.

Unfortunately it's making it hard to make a decision of what to change (if anything at all!)

At present I'm running 1 click LSC (the softest setting), and 1 click HSC. I'm happy with the amount of bobbing and don't feel the need to add more LSC even when climbing. My goal is is better LSC blowoff when I hit square edge bumps and tree roots. There are lots of tree roots where I ride and some I can hit hard enough to bounce the front wheel off line. My sag is correct and the fork is great and supportive in all other respects plus awesome for big g outs, jumps, rock gardens etc.

*Here is a summary of various comments I've found so far:*

*Flip piston :
*
- allows more lsc with easier hsc blowoff 
- Increases the amount of HSC you may have to run (up to 10 clicks more)
- Causes excessive LSC (possibly this interaction is only when the shimstack has the ring shim)
- increases flow through the high speed stack and causes it to open sooner, and in turn have less low speed compression. 
- Not much different riding the fork apart for more LSC

From what I can work out, flipping the piston allows you to run more LSC but it blows off easier into HSC part of the stack when you hit a fast bump. Would this be correct?

*
Ring shim:*
- It's purpose is to add preload to the LSC circuit
- It provides a little preload to the high speed stack and make it digressive.

I'm not sure what the verdict of this one is, as there are only 2 comments and they give opposing information. For my purposes I probably want to remove preload from the HSC stack?

Dlocki made a very intersting suggestion that might suit my needs?: "if you want the fork to descend better leave the piston in the stock position then remove the ring/centre shim, the downside is you loose the LSC settings 4/5/6 and the fork bobs more but its a beast of a bump eating fork. I ran my first pair of forks like this for the entire time i had them."

I wonder if for the later stacks with the ring shim, that Dlocki's suggestion is the best one, if the goal is to have a super plush fork that gives up a bit of efficiency?

Hopefully you guys can help me decipher all this, as I'm sure it will help many others too  TIA.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I live in the peak district in the Uk, its very rocky so we have lots of square edge bumps and mud. 

if you want more LSC blow off leave the piston in the stock orientation and remove the center and ring shim. 

The ring is 20x14x0.3
Centre is 13x0.15

make sure you bleed the cartridge best you can - when you have the cartridge back together and are cycling the cartridge make sure to adjust the LSC to max and cycle it and this will remove a ton of air that gets trapped.

Also make sure you dont trap the shim directly under the piston bolt and spring when putting them back together - test the by putting your finger nail under it and lifting it!!!!! IMPORTANT

Oil Wise - ive used Motul Factory line 2.5 which is very good and ive just put some Rock oil CVI 5 in as this is a local company so giving it a try.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> Just trying to make some heads and tails out of all the different feedback posted about the piston-flipping mod.
> 
> Unfortunately it's making it hard to make a decision of what to change (if anything at all!)
> 
> ...


Before getting too wrapped up, let me pull my early cartridge back apart and double check the stack. It is entirely possible I didn't see the ring shim in there when I had it apart, as I was just glancing at the stack when flipping the piston.

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

yer it should be the shim under the 21x0.15 shim on the piston face


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

teK-- said:


> Just trying to make some heads and tails out of all the different feedback posted about the piston-flipping mod.
> 
> Unfortunately it's making it hard to make a decision of what to change (if anything at all!)
> 
> ...


I didn't initially understand the flipping of the piston idea and first tried altering the stack two different times...the first time removing the ring shim and the second time a shim in the high speed portion of the stack. Both yielded ok results. Then I flipped the piston and found it better than both of the other mods.

It will depend on what you feel the fork is lacking in its current state. If you're happy with it then don't change anything. For me, the stock settings felt good in the neighborhood but when I took it to my test loop, the fork felt overwhelmed as the trails got roughest. With the piston flipped it feels pretty good on mellow trails and amazing in the rough...which is where I'm tuning for...

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Just did first service on the fork and bled the damper to get rid of some squishing noise in the rebound (probably a bad bleed from the factory).

However I couldn't work out how to undo the nut that keeps the compression stack together; everything just spins and so I can't get any purchase on the nut? What would you suggest I grab onto to stop the whole assembly spinning?

Here is a pic of my shimstack. Can't really tell if there is a ring shim in there...

At least I managed to give the damper a really good bleed and the fork is silent now. It feels much better on the trail too!


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

You need to remove the two small pins that are a 1.5mm Allen key on the black tube above it. Once these are out the full piston comes off.


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

There’s a spot to hold that rod with an 8mm Allen one you pull those pins and pull the rod out.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dlocki said:


> You need to remove the two small pins that are a 1.5mm Allen key on the black tube above it. Once these are out the full piston comes off.





marti163 said:


> There's a spot to hold that rod with an 8mm Allen one you pull those pins and pull the rod out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wait, so I don't need to pull the bolt off? I just put mine in a shaft clamp and removed the bolt, but it was on there pretty tight (used a heat gun to help).


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

No you still remove the nut. After you pull the 1.5mm pins you pull from the nut side and it comes free from the top cap/bladder side. Then if you look at the end of the rod opposite the nut there is a spot for a an Allen key (8mm iirc). No need for shaft clamps but that’ll work too.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks all for the clarification re disassembly. Haven't had time to give it another shot; have been too busy going out and enjoying the newly serviced fork!

When I open up the damper again I reckon I'd be able to do it a lot more efficiently and not even have to remove the damper cartridge from the fork; just the compression loader.

Also has anyone experienced this with their fork?

1) After a lowers service the fork rides very low in the travel, blows through travel easily. Even with the same air and OTT settings the fork doesn't extend to full travel. After the first ride everything seems to equalise and everything goes back to normal. Incidentally I had the exact same behaviour in an old Fox 34 fork I had which also used a coil negative spring.

2) The OTT setting drifts. E.g I can set it on 3 turns preload, and after a ride it has inceased itself to around 4 turns preload. If I leave it longer I have found it ended up at over 6 turns preload. I have tried setting the OTT with no air in the fork and then pumping it up afterwards, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. You would think that the preload would UNWIND itself if anything, not increase.


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

Glad I found this thread. Just got a Diamond 170 boost, and love all the tune-ability, but it was a little skitterish on the gravely stuff up to golf ball size. For reference, I've been riding coil forks since 2004. With my light weight and preference, a lot of shocks have too much LSC for my taste. Removing the ring shim made the LSC feel better. I'm a little confused from the previous posts on the piston flip. From the looks of the ports, flipping the piston gives the compression oil flow path larger ports to pass through, causing the shim stack open sooner ?. Is the LSC a bypass bleed port/orifice ?. 

Thanks for all who posted.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

BC said:


> Glad I found this thread. Just got a Diamond 170 boost, and love all the tune-ability, but it was a little skitterish on the gravely stuff up to golf ball size. For reference, I've been riding coil forks since 2004. With my light weight and preference, a lot of shocks have too much LSC for my taste. Removing the ring shim made the LSC feel better. I'm a little confused from the previous posts on the piston flip. From the looks of the ports, flipping the piston gives the compression oil flow path larger ports to pass through, causing the shim stack open sooner ?. Is the LSC a bypass bleed port/orifice ?.
> 
> Thanks for all who posted.


You are correct, flipping the stack should get it into the high speed stack sooner. Low speed is controlled by a needle (for any shock that doesn't use the piston and stack for low speed the low speed is controlled by bleed, whether a needle or opening a bleed port).

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Does the rebound knob add preload to the rebound shim stack or does it close a needle? From what I can see, it appears to close a needle.

Also, can you remove the compression damper without taking the fork apart? The service manual makes it look like you can take the top cap off, then remove the cartridge. That would make it easy to flip the piston or other shim related tuning.


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## marti163 (Feb 20, 2008)

Doug said:


> Does the rebound knob add preload to the rebound shim stack or does it close a needle? From what I can see, it appears to close a needle.
> 
> Also, can you remove the compression damper without taking the fork apart? The service manual makes it look like you can take the top cap off, then remove the cartridge. That would make it easy to flip the piston or other shim related tuning.


I have pulled the compression assembly with the fork on the bike. I added a bit of oil prior to reinstalling so that it pushed out the top and installed with bleed screw out.

It worked fine and I didn't have bleed issues the first couple times but did decide to pull the damper and do a full bleed after the third pull.

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Doug said:


> Also, can you remove the compression damper without taking the fork apart? The service manual makes it look like you can take the top cap off, then remove the cartridge. That would make it easy to flip the piston or other shim related tuning.


Don't think you'd be able to get a good bleed as the cartridge wouldn't be a full extension? For me once you have all the bits off the top cap removing the foot nut and getting the cartridge out is the more sensible option


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doug said:


> Does the rebound knob add preload to the rebound shim stack or does it close a needle? From what I can see, it appears to close a needle.
> 
> Also, can you remove the compression damper without taking the fork apart? The service manual makes it look like you can take the top cap off, then remove the cartridge. That would make it easy to flip the piston or other shim related tuning.


Pretty sure it is a needle. You can remove the cartridge without dropping the lowers.

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

dlocki said:


> Don't think you'd be able to get a good bleed as the cartridge wouldn't be a full extension? For me once you have all the bits off the top cap removing the foot nut and getting the cartridge out is the more sensible option


This is only to work on the shim stack or flip the piston, not do a full bleed. Its a lot easier this way, fork stays on the bike and all.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Anyone try the Fox Gold in the lowers? The viscosity is much higher, but it is much more 'sticky' than others from what I'm finding. For the function is serves, seems like it will be fine if not better than Spectro Golden.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doug said:


> Anyone try the Fox Gold in the lowers? The viscosity is much higher, but it is much more 'sticky' than others from what I'm finding. For the function is serves, seems like it will be fine if not better than Spectro Golden.


I should work well.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> Anyone try the Fox Gold in the lowers? The viscosity is much higher, but it is much more 'sticky' than others from what I'm finding. For the function is serves, seems like it will be fine if not better than Spectro Golden.


Yeah have had it in for a few rides now and it is good.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

If used fox gold for the past two years with no issues


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## M320 (Mar 22, 2013)

Diamond / Topaz combo on my Tallboy LTc


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Nice! Who did your decals?


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## M320 (Mar 22, 2013)

661lee said:


> Nice! Who did your decals?


Stikrd. You can go on a custom pick the colors you want.

https://www.stikrd.com/forks?bike_part=1&years=7&brand=105&model=424&quantity=12&page=1


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

Did the Piston flip this weekend (after the first mod of removing the ring shim) with a lot of ride time. I'm now very happy with the smooth operation/minimal LSC. Finally found an Air fork that is close enough to coil performance for my riding. Also, high speed damping is awesome. Great feel all around. Thanks ALL !!.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

BC said:


> Did the Piston flip this weekend (after the first mod of removing the ring shim) with a lot of ride time. I'm now very happy with the smooth operation/minimal LSC. Finally found an Air fork that is close enough to coil performance for my riding. Also, high speed damping is awesome. Great feel all around. Thanks ALL !!.


What kind of trails? Agreesive or more laid back riding style?


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

Very loose rocky terrain. It's more about traction and feedback than riding style. The trails I ride, LSC /lockouts are useless. Leaning into a turn is loose conditions, one little wheel hop from LSC cascades into the front wheel blowing out and crashing. Ultra smooth suspension is my preference.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

cool - so you removed the ring + center shim and also flipped the piston?

if i was riding pure DH on the forks them this would be the go to setup for me but i need some LSC support for my riding


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

dlocki said:


> cool - so you removed the ring + center shim and also flipped the piston?
> 
> Correct.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I've been trying to get my fork more sensitive as it's just too firm.
I weigh 190 and the chart says 115 to 120 in the air spring but I have it at 100 to 105, 1 click from full open on both the HSC and LSC. And the OTT to full soft and it's still too stiff.
Maybe I need to send it back to DVO and have them do these mods..?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

fxr man said:


> I've been trying to get my fork more sensitive as it's just too firm.
> I weigh 190 and the chart says 115 to 120 in the air spring but I have it at 100 to 105, 1 click from full open on both the HSC and LSC. And the OTT to full soft and it's still too stiff.
> Maybe I need to send it back to DVO and have them do these mods..?


I'm nearly the same weight and setup. I am also looking into options to soften it a bit. One option is to remove the ring shim to reduce HSC preload. I also have lighter oil I can try but that won't affect HSC much. Shim stacks don't perform much differently with viscosity changes.

I'm going to ask Ronnie what he suggests and I'll let you know.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Sweet, was thinking of calling as well but I'll wait to hear what you get from him...


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

What chart are you reading off? The dvo diamond owners manual shows a range of 125-130psi for a 190lb rider..

I'm 150lb and I run 110-115psi depending on terrain.

What I found is that some shock pumps are very inaccurate you may be best to use a good digital gauge like the Topeak ones which are designed for tyres but can also do Schraeder valves well over 100psi accurately.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Yep your right, was going off memory and mis quoted there recommendations. But that even makes my point more that the fork is too stiff. I'm using the pump that came with the diamond and topaz...


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I’d certainly say if they are too hard to try the ring shim mod. Then if they are still to hard - flip the piston with the ring shim out as this makes them really soft.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Soft would be nice...
Since I'm low on the air pressure and at the open side of LSC and HSC and OTT settings I could then use the settings and air pressure to get a desired ride.


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

fxr man said:


> I've been trying to get my fork more sensitive as it's just too firm.
> I weigh 190 and the chart says 115 to 120 in the air spring but I have it at 100 to 105, 1 click from full open on both the HSC and LSC. And the OTT to full soft and it's still too stiff.
> Maybe I need to send it back to DVO and have them do these mods..?


The mod makes a big difference. Before I did the mod, I wasn't sure if it was too much LSC (for me) or just inherent static friction of the air spring/seals. I've been riding coils forks since 2004, so was accustomed to super smooth. When I did the Mod on the DVO, I pulled out the air spring and compressed it by hand. There is very little resistance to movement, so the OTT works really well. After doing the mod, it's clear it was the LSC. Fork feels really good on the small stuff now. BTW, before the mod, I was running 20PSI lower than the recommended for my weight (140lbs) trying to get it smoother. After the mod, I'm back up to the recommended pressure. I've got it dialed great now. I can land from 4' fairly flat and use all my travel, but not bottom out, and still have it supple on the little stuff.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

So finally managed to get around to doing the piston flip mod.

Only removed the compression loader with the damper remaining in the fork, then the damper oil up to near full before putting the loader back in with LSC full open and bleed port open.

Here is a pic of my shim stack; I didn't pull it apart but didn't see any evidence of a ring shim. Thoughts?

Haven't taken out for ride yet but just going around the driveway and hitting a few square edge bumps etc it feels heaps more plush.

Thanks all for the tips and advice!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> So finally managed to get around to doing the piston flip mod.
> 
> Only removed the compression loader with the damper remaining in the fork, then the damper oil up to near full before putting the loader back in with LSC full open and bleed port open.
> 
> ...


You have to pull the shims apart to see a ring shim.

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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

Push


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

teK-- said:


> So finally managed to get around to doing the piston flip mod.
> 
> Only removed the compression loader with the damper remaining in the fork, then the damper oil up to near full before putting the loader back in with LSC full open and bleed port open.
> 
> ...


Have you ridden it yet? I have not heard from Ronnie. They are close to the fire so I hope that isn't affecting them.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

fxr man said:


> I've been trying to get my fork more sensitive as it's just too firm.
> I weigh 190 and the chart says 115 to 120 in the air spring but I have it at 100 to 105, 1 click from full open on both the HSC and LSC. And the OTT to full soft and it's still too stiff.
> Maybe I need to send it back to DVO and have them do these mods..?


I am experiencing the same with pressure. I weigh 220lb and I am running 120psi. Recommended pressure for my weight is 130-135psi.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I am going to open mine up and try one of two things:

Remove ring shim- this should reduce the HSC preload and use more travel, right? 

Flip piston- reduce LSC and go into HSC sooner. Softens up travel considerably. However does it reduce LSC too much? I use LSC to firm it up on the fire road climbs. Does it affect rebound at all? If flippingbthe piston uses bigger ports for LSC what kind of flow now uses the smaller normal LSC ports? On rebound does oil now use those other ports? Or is it designed to be a tuning option and oil only flows one way? I suspect I don’t understand the mechanics and design of the piston. Is there a diagram?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ed_284 said:


> I am experiencing the same with pressure. I weigh 220lb and I am running 120psi. Recommended pressure for my weight is 130-135psi.


I am 230 and originally was at 120. After pulling the lowers and greasing the seals and fresh bath oil, I ended up going up to 135psi and taking out a couple of turns of OTT.

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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doug said:


> I am going to open mine up and try one of two things:
> 
> Remove ring shim- this should reduce the HSC preload and use more travel, right?
> 
> Flip piston- reduce LSC and go into HSC sooner. Softens up travel considerably. However does it reduce LSC too much? I use LSC to firm it up on the fire road climbs. Does it affect rebound at all? If flippingbthe piston uses bigger ports for LSC what kind of flow now uses the smaller normal LSC ports? On rebound does oil now use those other ports? Or is it designed to be a tuning option and oil only flows one way? I suspect I don't understand the mechanics and design of the piston. Is there a diagram?


If you flip the piston, the low speed should stay the same, as it is controlled by the low speed needle (low speed bleed) and the high speed stack still has preload. The extra volume through piston will open the stack sooner, but it still has to overcome the preload. Removing the ring shim with the piston in either position will limit low speed compression as when you close the low speed needle far enough, it will force the fluid into the high speed stack that opens easier without the preload. Removing the ring shim should also change the compression curve from digressive to linear.

Keep in mind this fork also has a midvalve. The midvalve will handle a significant amount of high speed dampening. Rebound should not be significantly affected by flipping the piston as it is metered through the rebound piston, but is slightly affected by the low speed compression setting as oil bleeds both ways through the low speed needle as well as the rebound needle. A lot of bleed through the rebound needle is also likely part of the reason this fork doesn't have a firm low speed platform.

Unfortunately, without having a dyno or all the measurements to run through shimstacker to model the fork, we have to rely on general assumptions. I did see on DVO's Facebook page they have a new piston coming out for the Diamond.

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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Looks like a call to DVO is in order then.
I don't have the tools to do these mods at the moment so maybe I need to send it in.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Just called DVO and they said they were unaware of any new piston for the diamond...


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

I just posted on that Facebook discussion to ask them more about the piston upgrade... Stay tuned.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I don't do Facebook so I'll be waiting for your update.
Thanks in advance for posting..!!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

fxr man said:


> Just called DVO and they said they were unaware of any new piston for the diamond...


They made a post on September 26th and in the comments Bryson wrote: "Just testing different shim stack configurations and a new piston which is all upgradable."

I would assume as CEO Bryson would be in the know. It is also possible after further analysis DVO decided to not do a new piston or develop it further.

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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Cary said:


> I am 230 and originally was at 120. After pulling the lowers and greasing the seals and fresh bath oil, I ended up going up to 135psi and taking out a couple of turns of OTT.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks. How many hours did you put on before refreshing the lowers?

Regarding OTT, wouldn't you want to add more OTT if you increase pressure?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ed_284 said:


> Thanks. How many hours did you put on before refreshing the lowers?
> 
> Regarding OTT, wouldn't you want to add more OTT if you increase pressure?


Probably 75-100. Normally you would increase the OTT, but the fresh and complete greasing lowered stiction significantly, so less ott was needed.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Cary said:


> Probably 75-100. Normally you would increase the OTT, but the fresh and complete greasing lowered stiction significantly, so less ott was needed.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I too noticed the fork to be super soft immediately after a service but after maybe 2 rides I had to reinstate the previous air and OTT setting...


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Cary said:


> If you flip the piston, the low speed should stay the same, as it is controlled by the low speed needle (low speed bleed) and the high speed stack still has preload. The extra volume through piston will open the stack sooner, but it still has to overcome the preload. Removing the ring shim with the piston in either position will limit low speed compression as when you close the low speed needle far enough, it will force the fluid into the high speed stack that opens easier without the preload. Removing the ring shim should also change the compression curve from digressive to linear.


Certainly does alter the LSC - i tried it and hated it


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dlocki said:


> Certainly does alter the LSC - i tried it and hated it


Did you add some high speed preload with the external adjuster? If you run the high speed all the way open after flipping the piston, it can allow the stack to open early enough to limit the low speed.

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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Yes tried it first at my normal 6 click then backed it right off halfway round my local loop.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

So what's the answer...??
I need more sensitivity through at least the first half of travel. I don't really jump much at all and only do small drops of 1 to 2 ft. Occasionally and mostly trail ride and looking for a softer ride. So piston flip...?
Remove ring shim....? Or both..?
Was thinking since I'm running way below recommended air pressure and one click from fully open on both HSC and LSC and running OTT to its softest setting that if I did these mods that I could then use the OTT and compression settings, plus air to finally get dialed in.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

fxr man said:


> So what's the answer...??
> I need more sensitivity through at least the first half of travel. I don't really jump much at all and only do small drops of 1 to 2 ft. Occasionally and mostly trail ride and looking for a softer ride. So piston flip...?
> Remove ring shim....? Or both..?
> Was thinking since I'm running way below recommended air pressure and one click from fully open on both HSC and LSC and running OTT to its softest setting that if I did these mods that I could then use the OTT and compression settings, plus air to finally get dialed in.


My theory is that those running lower than recommended pressure and more than recommended OTT might be be causing the fork to suck down. I.e. the fork is not fully extending. Then once static riding weight is applied you are sagging too much. This takes the fork past its usual sensitive part of the travel off the top and you are effectively using part of the (supportive) mid range to start off with.

I have found this fork to like less sag than others I've used. 15% is good to keep it high in the travel, have good mid support and decent ramp up at the bottom given the air spring is so linear.

Measure your fork extension with no weight on the bike. If it's fully extended it should be 160mm from the top of the wiper seal to the bottom edge of the travel indicator ring. If you measure to the bottom of the crown it will be about 161.5mm.

For whatever reason if I run any less than 120-125psi even with 0 turns OTT i cannot get the fork to fully extend. It sits at around 158mm.

I wonder if the negative coil spring is too stiff for light riders?

Also my OTT setting seems to increase by itself during an ride. Roni suggested I start off with less given the low pressures I use but even with 1 turn it still winds itself up during a ride... not sure what answer is.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I’ve got 125psi in mine and they measure about 162. 8 turn of ott 

I’ve run diamonds for the past 2 1/2 years biggest difference I found was dumping the stock oil and bleed the cartridge properly. If you cycle the cartridge by hand and it’s not totally silent then it’s got air in. 

If you want them to be more supple do the ring shim mod. 

If that’s still not got you in the ball park then flip the piston aswel - which makes them Uber soft.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Bleeding the cartridge is not the easiest. DVO should have available to buy the bleed funnel needed. Great product but need to support aftermarket more.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> My theory is that those running lower than recommended pressure and more than recommended OTT might be be causing the fork to suck down. I.e. the fork is not fully extending. Then once static riding weight is applied you are sagging too much. This takes the fork past its usual sensitive part of the travel off the top and you are effectively using part of the (supportive) mid range to start off with.
> 
> I have found this fork to like less sag than others I've used. 15% is good to keep it high in the travel, have good mid support and decent ramp up at the bottom given the air spring is so linear.
> 
> ...


Running to low of pressure and too much sag is a real issue. This is a great fork, but really is tuned for aggressive riders. The faster and harder you push it, the better it feels. Both my Diamond and Emerald are this way and feel harsh if ridden slowly. This is in contrast to a Mattoc which is plush no matter how hard you ride, but doesn't have the lively feeling of a DVO.

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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

All I want for Christmas is my DVO suspension to be PLUSH...!! Lol


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

fxr man said:


> All I want for Christmas is my DVO suspension to be PLUSH...!! Lol


That's why I sold it.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I've read a lot of your post over the years and you seemed to have a really good grasp on how these suspensions work. But I can't afford to keep buying different set ups until I get one that seems to work well with my bike and riding style so I'm going to try what you didn't and give DVO the chance to help me get this more to my liking. I would have been interested in hearing your opinion on how the mods would have worked out for you had you tried them before you sold them. Hoping they can get it close or I might have to save up for something else..


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

fxr man said:


> I've read a lot of your post over the years and you seemed to have a really good grasp on how these suspensions work. But I can't afford to keep buying different set ups until I get one that seems to work well with my bike and riding style so I'm going to try what you didn't and give DVO the chance to help me get this more to my liking. I would have been interested in hearing your opinion on how the mods would have worked out for you had you tried them before you sold them. Hoping they can get it close or I might have to save up for something else..


Plenty of tuning option have been surgested in this thread. Get the tools out and Have a go.

I've tried all that have been listed and if you want them Uber soft remove the ring shim and flip the piston. If that's too soft put the piston in the stock position

If non of that works for you then you need to speak to dvo and see what they surgest

I rode mine today and it was -5c and they still felt amazing. Mine are currently running the stock shim stack but using rockoil fluid


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Yep ur right..
I really want to try those mods but don't currently have the tools so thinking I need to make a trip up to the DVO shop and have them go through the fork and shock. Hoping to get that done soon. Need to tool up so I can service these on my own.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Going to the dvo shop is probably your best option but getting the tools to do it yourself is great, Especially once you get the hang of stripping them


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

I did both mods and loving it now. Having it plush also allowed me run higher pressure and still be smooth. Very easy to mod with basic tools.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

What is rockoil fluid...? Stock shim stack so no ringshim mod...?
R u running your piston stock or flipped..?


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> Have you ridden it yet? I have not heard from Ronnie. They are close to the fire so I hope that isn't affecting them.


I wanted to give them a good ride before replying...

First ride was some fairly tame AM type trails whereby I ran 6 clicks of HSC as opposed to my usual 1. Overall it felt ok but I was pinging off small rocks and bumps etc. I gradually reduced the HSC 2 at a time and also tried reducing air pressure and increasing OTT but couldn't get the forks feeling nice by the time I reached the end of the ride.

Yesterday I ran exactly same settings as usual, that is, 115psi for 15% sag, 2.5 turns OTT, 12 clicks rebound (from full closed), 1 click HSC, full open LSC. Piston flipped with no changes to shimstack.

Rode on some proper DH trails with jumps, rock gardens, drops, and big tree roots. Forks felt amazing, well supported minimal tuck on braking, and super plush on hits. Might play around with rebound a little but overall very happy with the forks now.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

fxr man said:


> What is rockoil fluid...? Stock shim stack so no ringshim mod...?
> R u running your piston stock or flipped..?


Totally stock shim stack at the minute with piston in the normal position.

I've got a new pair of boost diamond that I'm fitting this week that I've just stripped and rebuilt that I have done the ring shim mod on so will run that for a while but to be honest I can strip the cartridge and have it back in - within 20 minutes

Rock oil is a uk based oil company


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## my02 (Aug 17, 2005)

I can’t see where the original suggestion came from however this is a note to say thanks to whoever suggested to use Rockshox tokens to increase ramp up. 

Mountainbike Suspension Centre in Stanmore, NSW, Australia put two tokens into my Diamond (no modification required – they were the “squishier” token). 

The fork had its first post-modification ride over the weekend on a mixture of roughish, fast singletrack and park style jumps, drops and berms. Even without too much fettling, the fork feels markedly improved. 

At 280lb - 290lb, I had been running 140-150 PSI and was fairly happy with it however with the addition of the tokens and a reduction to 120PSI, the SBC is way better but without any bottom out or obvious G outs. LSC was on 6, HSC around 3 full turns from full open and OTT is almost fully open.

The weekend’s riding is NOT typical for me, its generally slower, more technical singletrack with a few fast sections with hits up to 5ft. 

I’ll continue playing but so far the fork is much, much better.

Thanks!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I just finished the piston flip. Pretty easy. I won’t get to ride until Tuesday morning. 

However, when putting it back I had to add about 13ml of oil. I was careful not to spill any and only had minimal dripping from the top loader. I expected to need 5ml not 10+. If it was low on oil could that mean there is a leak into the lowers? The fork is about 11 months old and about 70 hours on it.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> I just finished the piston flip. Pretty easy. I won't get to ride until Tuesday morning.
> 
> However, when putting it back I had to add about 13ml of oil. I was careful not to spill any and only had minimal dripping from the top loader. I expected to need 5ml not 10+. If it was low on oil could that mean there is a leak into the lowers? The fork is about 11 months old and about 70 hours on it.


 I wouldn't be too concerned. I filled the damper almost to the top with oil then put the compression loader back in. That way I was sure as much oil as possible was pushed through the loader and minimise any air trapped inside.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I got one ride on the fork and it was not much different. However it was also 40F when I started riding. Thats 30F less than my usual rides here in SoCal, so that certainly will have had some effect.

I have three rides scheduled over the next 4 days so it will get a good work out and I may remove the ring shim after the next ride or two.

I have not seen a photo of the top of the piston, so here is mine from the stock orientation:


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi all! Ive had my Diamond seup at 150 for 2 months now. Love it. Its a tad more firm than my 2014 PIKE 160, but it rides great in high speed chunk (Tahoe, Sierra Nevada, Norcal fast rocky 2000-3000 ft decsents). Im 50 hours in, and ready for oil/wiper change. Has anyone tried to take off lowers only? The online manual says to pull out both cartridges, from the top of uppers, before pulling off lowers, which is very different than FOX\ROCKSHOX that I have worked on for many years. Seems like an extra step?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

hoolie said:


> Hi all! Ive had my Diamond seup at 150 for 2 months now. Love it. Its a tad more firm than my 2014 PIKE 160, but it rides great in high speed chunk (Tahoe, Sierra Nevada, Norcal fast rocky 2000-3000 ft decsents). Im 50 hours in, and ready for oil/wiper change. Has anyone tried to take off lowers only? The online manual says to pull out both cartridges, from the top of uppers, before pulling off lowers, which is very different than FOX\ROCKSHOX that I have worked on for many years. Seems like an extra step?


You should be able to, but it is nice to be able to wipe the cartridges down and only adds a couple of minutes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

My Diamond was custom tuned before they shipped it out to me. The HSC at max damping on mine feels like four clicks on my friend’s stock Diamond. 

Think it’s worth flipping the piston, even though I have zero complaints about how it rides? 

I’m 150lbs, running 105psi and the OTT is one full turn away from max. My hands used to get wrecked on high speed washboard stuff when I had a Pike. No problems on my Diamond.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Cary said:


> You should be able to, but it is nice to be able to wipe the cartridges down and only adds a couple of minutes.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


With mine the damper cartridge comes out with a bit of wriggling but on the air side I cannot get the cartridge out because it is obstructed by the handlebars. It will come down to how short a stem you run but personally I CBF taking off the bars or forks when I do a fork service, so I unscrew but don't take the air cartridge out fully.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> With mine the damper cartridge comes out with a bit of wriggling but on the air side I cannot get the cartridge out because it is obstructed by the handlebars. It will come down to how short a stem you run but personally I CBF taking off the bars or forks when I do a fork service, so I unscrew but don't take the air cartridge out fully.


You probably thought of it, but just loosen the stem so you can rotate the bars, the straighten and retorque.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

Hi Gents,
New diamond non boost here. The fork seems very stiff and I'm learning how to tune it (ya!). 

However, I'm a bit bitterly disappointed in the negative space above the tire. 2.4 tires are either no fit or barely fit with some risk in case you get a rock stuck in there. I've read here that minions 2.5 are very borderline and elsewhere that conti trail kings and vittoria gomas are no go. If you could list out any other tires that don't fit, I'd appreciate!

Andre


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

drdre said:


> Hi Gents,
> New diamond non boost here. The fork seems very stiff and I'm learning how to tune it (ya!).
> 
> However, I'm a bit bitterly disappointed in the negative space above the tire. 2.4 tires are either no fit or barely fit with some risk in case you get a rock stuck in there. I've read here that minions 2.5 are very borderline and elsewhere that conti trail kings and vittoria gomas are no go. If you could list out any other tires that don't fit, I'd appreciate!
> ...


I've got a Minion DHF 2.5 on Oozy 295 rims and it fits the fender with no issues.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Minion 2.5 WT here no problems on non boost fork with 29mm rims heaps of clearance.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

drdre said:


> Hi Gents,
> New diamond non boost here. The fork seems very stiff and I'm learning how to tune it (ya!).
> 
> However, I'm a bit bitterly disappointed in the negative space above the tire. 2.4 tires are either no fit or barely fit with some risk in case you get a rock stuck in there. I've read here that minions 2.5 are very borderline and elsewhere that conti trail kings and vittoria gomas are no go. If you could list out any other tires that don't fit, I'd appreciate!
> ...


How wide are your rims? A 2.3 HR2 barely fit my 19mm rims. On 26mm fits fine. The fender is definitely not suited to wide tires however.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

teK-- said:


> Minion 2.5 WT here no problems on non boost fork with 29mm rims heaps of clearance.


Forgot to mention.. I removed the shitty undersized fender and fitted a Marsh Guard style one instead.


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

Im guessing the boost version has a lot more room. I'm running a dhf 2.5 wt on 30mm rims with a lot of clearance.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Nobby Nic 2.35 on 30mm rims maybe have 6mm of clearance between tire and bridge. Rocks get stuck all the time and make noise hitting fender. Boost does have more room.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

29 x 2.5 Maxxis Shorty on Derby 35mm rim. Non boost fork, combo works fine. The fork arch is too close to tire though. Im not worried about it, 1 inch rocks have gone through that gap dozens of times (tires at 24 PSI). The bottom of fork arch is really scratched up after 55 hours of riding. Fork was on sale for $599, so Im not complaining.


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## drdre (Dec 15, 2005)

Tight : 
maxxis 2.5 shorty
maxxis 2.5 dhf
nobby nick 2.35
hands dampf

Ok
bontrager 29*4 team (2.3)
e13 trs
vredestein bobcat

no Go
conti trail kings
victoria goma

??
ardent 2.4
wtb trailboss
wtb breakout
bontrager se4 2.4
icon 2.35
specialized butcher
specialized purgatory
specialized slaughter


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Boy, all these threads lately from Fox/RS owners whose brand new forks and shocks were assembled improperly has me appreciating my Diamond/Topaz.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

DVO TOPAZ. I finally got around to adding 2 volume reducers to my Topaz, and lowered the pressure from 225 PSI to 210 PSI. I really like the feel of the rear shock set up now. I seem to like rear shocks set up this way, and I wish I had done this 2 months ago. My old FOX RP23 was also setup with giant volume reducer, and lower pressure. So much softer rear end, but ramp up help at the end of stroke. I am sold on the TOPAZ. Its great. This is on Canfield Riot. Sorry, I meant this for DVO TOPAZ thread.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

crimedog said:


> Boy, all these threads lately from Fox/RS owners whose brand new forks and shocks were assembled improperly has me appreciating my Diamond/Topaz.


It really sucks putting a fork on and having it work out of the box. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Inter71 (Jul 13, 2014)

crimedog said:


> Boy, all these threads lately from Fox/RS owners whose brand new forks and shocks were assembled improperly has me appreciating my Diamond/Topaz.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cary said:


> It really sucks putting a fork on and having it work out of the box.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Damn, not kidding here, I had a dream about my old DVO fork (that never worked great out of the box) last night, in the dream, there was a green anno paddle-shifter type switch on the right side of the top-cap just outboard of the cap, so kind of attached, but like a steering wheel where it's over to the side, about the size of your thumb, and when I pushed it, it made the fork a lot smoother. I couldn't do anything but push down on the fork in the parking lot in my dream, but it maybe it was the "piston flip" switch? 

Hopefully DVO has their valving better sorted these days.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Damn, not kidding here, I had a dream about my old DVO fork (that never worked great out of the box) last night, in the dream, there was a green anno paddle-shifter type switch on the right side of the top-cap just outboard of the cap, so kind of attached, but like a steering wheel where it's over to the side, about the size of your thumb, and when I pushed it, it made the fork a lot smoother. I couldn't do anything but push down on the fork in the parking lot in my dream, but it maybe it was the "piston flip" switch?
> 
> Hopefully DVO has their valving better sorted these days.


I know you didn't get along with yours and had reservations about purchasing one given your concerns. If I recall correctly, you never used it after DVO retuned it for you. I found flipping the piston made a huge difference in high speed compression and moved me to the middle of the range.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm only 175lb geared up and don't ride that aggressively so Ronnie had me remove a rebound shim from my Topaz and for the Diamond he had me remove the two ring shims behind the shim on the compression valve face as well as the two shims at the end of the stack. He said that I could flip the piston as well to soften it further but I thought that I should try it with the changes to the stack first. I never found it super far off just felt like I was out of range. Of course it's January in Massachusetts so it'll be a while before I can give it a proper go.

I do have to say that I'm very happy with my choice to go DVO, Ronnie has been awesome and not that I'm an expert but I've spent some time analyzing the oil flow in the Diamond and Topaz and everything seems to be top quality.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot to add that I damaged a part while disassembling my Topaz and Ronnie hooked me up. Not to mention all the time on the phone.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Have you guys seen the internals of the Emerald damper? Holy **** I want that in Diamond size.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cary said:


> I know you didn't get along with yours and had reservations about purchasing one given your concerns. If I recall correctly, you never used it after DVO retuned it for you. I found flipping the piston made a huge difference in high speed compression and moved me to the middle of the range.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Maybe, but the performance was unacceptable to me, not better than my stock pike RCs, which are not great either. If it takes flipping the piston, something is wrong IMO. Seems just like most OEM stuff, despite having a HSC adjuster, it is way too aggressively valved for HSC.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Maybe, but the performance was unacceptable to me, not better than my stock pike RCs, which are not great either. If it takes flipping the piston, something is wrong IMO. Seems just like most OEM stuff, despite having a HSC adjuster, it is way too aggressively valved for HSC.


Couldn't agree more. Hopefully in the next three weeks I can get back to DVO for some mods to get me sorted as I haven't had a chance to try the changes suggested in this thread.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Maybe, but the performance was unacceptable to me, not better than my stock pike RCs, which are not great either. If it takes flipping the piston, something is wrong IMO. Seems just like most OEM stuff, despite having a HSC adjuster, it is way too aggressively valved for HSC.


Shhh you need to drink the cool aid!


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Shhh you need to drink the cool aid!


I don't think he needs anymore koolaids.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Maybe, but the performance was unacceptable to me, not better than my stock pike RCs, which are not great either. If it takes flipping the piston, something is wrong IMO. Seems just like most OEM stuff, despite having a HSC adjuster, it is way too aggressively valved for HSC.


I would say it is because you didn't ride it hard enough, but I have seen the stuff you ride. I know they softened the dampening in the Emerald after the first year, not sure if they changed it on the Diamond. The early Emerald compression was super stiff, even for my 230 pound rear end.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## MrMentallo (Apr 10, 2013)

BC said:


> Im guessing the boost version has a lot more room. I'm running a dhf 2.5 wt on 30mm rims with a lot of clearance.


Very much so. I have a non-boost 29" and have Flow mk3's with a 29mm id and can run most 2.4 tires by a slim margin. It matters the manufacturer with 2.5 tires and how true to measurement they go WTB tires run big so they are a no go. The newer Schwalbe's run smaller so I can do a Magic Mary and a Hans Damph in 2.5. That's all I have tried so far.

BTW, I'm in Austin and used to run your crank mount bashguards back when you used to call your company Austin Machining. They used to take some serious damage with no worries. I used to carve the cloverleaf pool at Brushy Creek with a long travel hardtail and do coping grinds with no issues at all.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

MrMentallo said:


> Very much so. I have a non-boost 29" and have Flow mk3's with a 29mm id and can run most 2.4 tires by a slim margin. It matters the manufacturer with 2.5 tires and how true to measurement they go WTB tires run big so they are a no go. The newer Schwalbe's run smaller so I can do a Magic Mary and a Hans Damph in 2.5. That's all I have tried so far.
> 
> BTW, I'm in Austin and used to run your crank mount bashguards back when you used to call your company Austin Machining. They used to take some serious damage with no worries. I used to carve the cloverleaf pool at Brushy Creek with a long travel hardtail and do coping grinds with no issues at all.


My son is running the boost version. Maxxis 2.6 DHF on a 30mm internal rim. Lots of room leftover.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Anyone know of any aftermarket bolt-on (non-QR) axles for a non-boost Diamond?


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## EvilBkr (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm surprised that so many people are having problems with the compression stack on this fork mine was perfect out of the box. I generally run (from full open) 2-3 clicks of LSC and 2 clicks of HSC and anywhere from 115-120PSI for my 170lbs(ish) weight.

As others have noted this is a fork that likes to be ridden aggressively, it just gets better as terrain gets nastier and speeds get higher...YMMV.

I've been on my particular Diamond for over a year now. So when I replaced my Transition Smuggler with a Banshee Prime I figured that I should do a seal service (it was way past time) and extend the travel at the same time (140 to 150). As with any fork it's a simple task with the proper tools and the instructions. Travel change is also a very simple procedure. Long story short it feels even more amazing...incremental degradation doesn't register until everything gets refreshed.

Here I am almost a year and half on and it's still an amazing fork.

My settings (in the hope they can help somebody get setup):
Bike: Banshee Prime (large)
Rider: 165-175 (depending on beer and ride frequency)
Air-pressure: 115-120 (I prefer 120)
OTT: 7 turns from fully backed out
Rebound: 10-12 turns from full open (terrain dependent)
LSC: 2-3 clicks from full open (terrain dependent)
HSC: 2 clicks from full open

I don't use the full travel all the time, maybe once every 2-3 rides, but it's nice to know it's there when I need it.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

EvilBkr said:


> I'm surprised that so many people are having problems with the compression stack on this fork mine was perfect out of the box. I generally run (from full open) 2-3 clicks of LSC and 2 clicks of HSC and anywhere from 115-120PSI for my 170lbs(ish) weight.
> 
> As others have noted this is a fork that likes to be ridden aggressively, it just gets better as terrain gets nastier and speeds get higher...YMMV.
> 
> ...


I don't get it either. I think part of the problem is people doing the parking lot test by just pushing down on it. That **** doesn't work you have to ride it. I have five front and rear on my riot and mrp on 2 other bikes 2 stages and coil raze and just put a ribbon on another bike and if you do the parking lot push test they feel shitty and I've had people do that to my forks and and be like well it feels meh and I tell them to ride it through the woods and when they come back then they get it and they try to get there Fox or rockshox to feel the same which never works

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

EvilBkr said:


> I'm surprised that so many people are having problems with the compression stack on this fork mine was perfect out of the box. I generally run (from full open) 2-3 clicks of LSC and 2 clicks of HSC and anywhere from 115-120PSI for my 170lbs(ish) weight.
> 
> As others have noted this is a fork that likes to be ridden aggressively, it just gets better as terrain gets nastier and speeds get higher...YMMV.
> 
> ...


The fork is tuned for aggressive, fast riders. For slower riders, there is often too much high speed and they never get it to open up. It is not a plush fork at slow speeds, but it is so amazingly plush when pushed hard.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Long shot but has anyone seen any graphs of the compression curve for stock, piston flip and the ring shim removed? I expect it gets more linear as the force to use the HSC circuit drops. 

I know they do in house dyno testing but haven’t seen any data like what Manitou did.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I don't get it either. I think part of the problem is people doing the parking lot test by just pushing down on it. That **** doesn't work you have to ride it. I have five front and rear on my riot and mrp on 2 other bikes 2 stages and coil raze and just put a ribbon on another bike and if you do the parking lot push test they feel shitty and I've had people do that to my forks and and be like well it feels meh and I tell them to ride it through the woods and when they come back then they get it and they try to get there Fox or rockshox to feel the same which never works
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd have to agree with this.

Sometimes forks feel nice and plush in the carpark but they ride like crap. Or vice a versa. I prefer the second option.

Mine feels ok in the carpark and not great when riding at low speed, but when you crank the speed up a few gears is when the fork really shines.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

EvilBkr said:


> I'm surprised that so many people are having problems with the compression stack on this fork mine was perfect out of the box. I generally run (from full open) 2-3 clicks of LSC and 2 clicks of HSC and anywhere from 115-120PSI for my 170lbs(ish) weight.
> 
> As others have noted this is a fork that likes to be ridden aggressively, it just gets better as terrain gets nastier and speeds get higher...YMMV.
> 
> ...


Did you use the same pressures when travel was 140? I mean...if i change the travel i have to adapt the pressure or they are separate.
My 130 mm diamond (135 actually) Is very stiff at 120 PSI, i get around 18% SAG at 180 lbs...Is It ok?
I was used to have SAG in the 25-30% range.


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## EvilBkr (Mar 14, 2006)

davideb87 said:


> Did you use the same pressures when travel was 140? I mean...if i change the travel i have to adapt the pressure or they are separate.
> My 130 mm diamond (135 actually) Is very stiff at 120 PSI, i get around 18% SAG at 180 lbs...Is It ok?
> I was used to have SAG in the 25-30% range.


Interesting question. I'm using the exact same settings at 150mm as I was using at 140mm, but maybe I'll bring a shock pump and tease the air pressure up 5-10 PSI and see if I notice any difference in the performance. In general when I'm setting up my fork I go by trail feel rather than a static sag percentage. As others have mentioned parking lot feel is not necessarily going to dictate how a fork performs or feels on the trail.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

crimedog said:


> I'm only 175lb geared up and don't ride that aggressively so Ronnie had me remove a rebound shim from my Topaz and for the Diamond he had me remove the two ring shims behind the shim on the compression valve face as well as the two shims at the end of the stack. He said that I could flip the piston as well to soften it further but I thought that I should try it with the changes to the stack first. I never found it super far off just felt like I was out of range. Of course it's January in Massachusetts so it'll be a while before I can give it a proper go.
> 
> I do have to say that I'm very happy with my choice to go DVO, Ronnie has been awesome and not that I'm an expert but I've spent some time analyzing the oil flow in the Diamond and Topaz and everything seems to be top quality.
> 
> Edit: I can't believe I forgot to add that I damaged a part while disassembling my Topaz and Ronnie hooked me up. Not to mention all the time on the phone.


Do you have pics of the shims you removed? Also what was your Topaz issue that resulted in the rebound shim removal?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Techspec360 said:


> Do you have pics of the shims you removed? Also what was your Topaz issue that resulted in the rebound shim removal?


Pics of shims? Once you've seen one you've seen them all. If you want to tune yours pull out the compression valve assembly and give Ronnie a call, he'll tell you what you should do.

No issues with the Topaz, I just asked since I was on the phone already and he thought I could use less HSR due to the pressures I'd be running.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

marti163 said:


> I flipped the compression piston over Wednesday night and have 2 rides on the fork with the stock shim stack configuration and the flipped piston. For my weight (165-170)I liked the 1 position on LSC... a couple clicks of HSC, 117psi, one RS 32mm token and 7 turns OTT. This fork is amazing now! Thanks for posting the flipped piston idea. It's like a whole new fork!
> 
> I have been struggling to get this fork feeling like I want for nearly a year. It's been back to ronnie twice...one for the top out clunk issue and once for new uppers (creaking). Both times DVO's service was amazing and fast. Makes we want to buy a Topaz and I don't even need one!
> 
> BTW... did Ronnie tell you flip that piston over or did you just try it?


Quick question regarding using the RS 32mm token(s) for volume spacer. Did you have to disassemble the air spring to install it? It looks like it a complete assembly and not as simple as pulling the top cap off like the other brands?

Thanks!


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I've been on a flipped piston for a while but I still find it a little harsh at 4 or more clicks of lsc at hsc setting that I use.

So I had a thought...

I have removed the hsc preload ring, spring and the plate that presses on the spring and changes with adjustment. I added some more shims to the stack to get the same hsc support without the hsc preload assembly. I'm still working on the optimal stack (preloaded face shim vs non) but I think I'm pretty close to what I want already.

The result was a game changer so far for me. I can run 5 - 6 clicks of lsc and i have much more support in turns and less brake dive. At the same time it's less harsh. I can bury the front into turns and it seems to be riding higher in the travel.

I have 2 dampers so I can make a change to one and do a quick swap easily to test it out. I even filed the long tab down on the lsc adjuster so I can swap dampers without removing the adjustment knobs. 

Getting close to holy grail status on this fork. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

I have a question for those who have increased their travel on their Diamond Boost. They recommend using a 27mm wrench for opening the bottom of the air cartridge. Is there enough room to get a crescent wrench in there to do the job?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Ed_284 said:


> I have a question for those who have increased their travel on their Diamond Boost. They recommend using a 27mm wrench for opening the bottom of the air cartridge. Is there enough room to get a crescent wrench in there to do the job?


I think the first time I changed my travel I used a 27mm wrench and the second time an adjustable because it was closer. There is enough material to get a purchase on it with the adjustable but it takes more focus and time. I used some curved internal snap ring pliers to stop the middle from turning so I was already down a hand.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I ride a trail that has a fast DH section that is a mix of fast turns, rock filled ruts, brake bumps, chunky single track, and a few slow rock gardens to pedal through. 

If I open the LSC all the way on the fast DH so the brake bumps and rocky ruts are not so bad it feels good. However I then don’t has as much support in the turns. If I add some LSC the turns are better but it’s harsh in the slow rocky stuff. Especially the baby head rock gardens I have to pedal through. 

I did the piston flip and this helped. Next I think I’ll remove a ring shim. That should allow me to use the same LSC yet get into the HSC sooner, right? I do want LSC for the climbing that these SoCal trails require. 

I’m 190-195 all geared up. 150mm travel, 120PSI, 4 clicks rebound, 0 HSC, 0-3 LSC, 8 OTT.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doug said:


> I ride a trail that has a fast DH section that is a mix of fast turns, rock filled ruts, brake bumps, chunky single track, and a few slow rock gardens to pedal through.
> 
> If I open the LSC all the way on the fast DH so the brake bumps and rocky ruts are not so bad it feels good. However I then don't has as much support in the turns. If I add some LSC the turns are better but it's harsh in the slow rocky stuff. Especially the baby head rock gardens I have to pedal through.
> 
> ...


Can you elaborate what differences you noticed most with the piston flip? (Less HSC spiking, more LSC, less LSC, etc)?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Techspec360 said:


> Can you elaborate what differences you noticed most with the piston flip? (Less HSC spiking, more LSC, less LSC, etc)?


It got into HSC sooner. It didn't feel bad (nothing like a Pike RC spiking) but now feels better. It didn't reduce HSC much and I use the same amount of travel. If I remove the ring shim I expect less HSC and should use more travel or bottom out with same settings.

I sketched this up. X axis is velocity (mm/sec) and y is force. What I think these changes would look like on a dyno. I could be wrong:
Green = stock
Blue = piston flip
Red = piston flipped and ring shim removed (edit: this should probably be more linear)


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doug said:


> It got into HSC sooner. It didn't feel bad (nothing like a Pike RC spiking) but now feels better. It didn't reduce HSC much and I use the same amount of travel. If I remove the ring shim I expect less HSC and should use more travel or bottom out with same settings.
> 
> I sketched this up. X axis is velocity (mm/sec) and y is force. What I think these changes would look like on a dyno. I could be wrong:
> Green = stock
> ...


Right on. Thanks a bunch! Nice graph too, I like it.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Techspec360 said:


> Right on. Thanks a bunch! Nice graph too, I like it.


Flipped the piston today as well.... here's what I feel. LSC is increased, 1 feels like 2.5-3 clicks before. HSC blows off sooner/reduced slighly. Comparatively speaking 3-4 clicks now feels more like fully open did before. I appreciate the extra LSC however for the nasty rooty rocky stuff I ride, it's on the "too much" end of the spectrum. It's mangaeable if you're on it but there's not much forgiveness for the off camber gnarly slick roots, gotta be heads up for sure. Love the additional support in the turns and booters for sure, I image on a flowy or lift assisted buff ass trail this would be perfect or even wanting more LSC but for the PNW it's on the firm side. Good mod though appreciate everyone.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Techspec360 said:


> Flipped the piston today as well.... here's what I feel. LSC is increased, 1 feels like 2.5-3 clicks before. HSC blows off sooner/reduced slighly. Comparatively speaking 3-4 clicks now feels more like fully open did before. I appreciate the extra LSC however for the nasty rooty rocky stuff I ride, it's on the "too much" end of the spectrum. It's mangaeable if you're on it but there's not much forgiveness for the off camber gnarly slick roots, gotta be heads up for sure. Love the additional support in the turns and booters for sure, I image on a flowy or lift assisted buff ass trail this would be perfect or even wanting more LSC but for the PNW it's on the firm side. Good mod though appreciate everyone.


Totally agree.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dlocki said:


> Totally agree.


Ditto.

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I know mine feels like the HSC opens sooner, but maybe the LSC has increased and I didn't notice since I was so focused on reducing HSC. I did wonder how flipping the piston (which switches the larger and smaller ports for HSC/LSC) could reduce both HSC and LSC. It would make sense that it increases LSC (smaller ports now) and reduces HSC (larger port).


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Just spoke with Ronnie:

*Piston:*
-Flipping the piston reduces both HSC _AND_ LSC. 
-The normal position is 4 leaf clover side is blow off (face away from shim stack), square ports face shim stack
-said not to flip the piston and not change the stack. Only flip the piston if you are 135lb or under. Otherwise go with the shim stack mod.

*Reduce HSC: *
-remove top two shims below clamp shim, remove ring/centering shim
-change oil, I have Motorex (lightest stuff they make...2.5WT). Stock oil must be heavier.
-leave piston in the normal position

The recipe he gave me (195lbs on bike):
-125psi
-Full ott
-Normal Piston
-Remove top two shims (opposite piston face)
-Remove ring/centering shim
-Remove damper oil and replace with Motorex 2.5WT or similar ~14cps shock oil **NOT Maxima!**
-Check air piston oil level is at 5mm above the air cartridge [not sure I heard him right. There is no oil height measurement in the service guide but there is mention of 5cc of oil in the air cartridge], heavier oil is better here.

He also said they have some new stuff coming soon...coil single crown fork maybe?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Nice, thanks Doug. He gave me the same mods for my compression valving at 175lbs for reference. I told him I was running HSC wide open and don't go that hard.

Not sure what they are getting filled with in Taiwan but he recommended Driven SHX to me so that's what I picked up. I believe it's 2.5WT which is what the rebuild guide specifies.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

These shims= remove?

Shim Stack Photo by jagtech360 | Photobucket



Doug said:


> Just spoke with Ronnie:
> 
> *Piston:*
> -Flipping the piston reduces both HSC _AND_ LSC.
> ...


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Techspec360 said:


> These shims= remove?
> 
> Shim Stack Photo by jagtech360 | Photobucket


Yes


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> Not sure what they are getting filled with in Taiwan but he recommended Driven SHX to me so that's what I picked up. I believe it's 2.5WT which is what the rebuild guide specifies.


I had Motorex per Dougal and some other comments from Ronnie previously. He asked what oil I used and when I told him 2.5WT Motorex he said that was great stuff. Seemed like he really likes it as well as Driven SHX.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

crimedog said:


> Yes


Sweet. Will give it a try tomorrow!


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Techspec360 said:


> Sweet. Will give it a try tomorrow!


Felt pretty good but feeling a bit sticky, might be time for a lowers service....then reevaluate.

How often you guys servicing the lowers? This fork seemed to go way longer than any of the other "brands" I've had before starting to get some stiction. I've got around 175-200 miles on it and it's to the point where I can point quite a bit of weight on the bars before it breaks free (once partially compressed ~60mm give or take).


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Techspec360 said:


> Felt pretty good but feeling a bit sticky, might be time for a lowers service....then reevaluate.
> 
> How often you guys servicing the lowers? This fork seemed to go way longer than any of the other "brands" I've had before starting to get some stiction. I've got around 175-200 miles on it and it's to the point where I can point quite a bit of weight on the bars before it breaks free (once partially compressed ~60mm give or take).


I have around 100 hours or 600-800 miles on mine and never serviced the lowers. I'm due and should do that when I change the shim stack. However I want to ride it a few times with the new stack so I can feel that change. Then service lowers to see if that changes the feel any.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Some great info on this thread now.

keep it coming


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

I can confirm once you service the lowers the fork becomes super soft for the next 2-3 rides! So by changing the shimstack and riding it first you will have a pretty good indication of the true difference.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

anyone with dvo diamond 29 non boost 
with michelin rockR2 29 2.35 will have problem or not?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Not sure on that tire, but my 2.35 Nobby Nic on 30mm IW rims only leaves about 6mm of clearance between tire and bridge. I hear rocks hitting bridge all the time but no real safety issue. They usually dislodge after a few rotations.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Rngspnr said:


> Not sure on that tire, but my 2.35 Nobby Nic on 30mm IW rims only leaves about 6mm of clearance between tire and bridge. I hear rocks hitting bridge all the time but no real safety issue. They usually dislodge after a few rotations.


I have ztr flow ex with 25internal with revelation its ok but will upgrade to DVO diamong and maybe non boost 
thanks


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Darksoul said:


> anyone with dvo diamond 29 non boost
> with michelin rockR2 29 2.35 will have problem or not?


Non boost diamond and 26mm internal width rims with a 2.35 Hans Dampf (which is huge for a 2.35) worked but had 3 or 4 mm clearance. It was fine here in dry SoCal but would be a problem anywhere with mud.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

My new Norco Sight came stock with a 140mm Diamond boost. Fork seems well made and solid feeling. Won’t get a good ride in for a month or so due to winter.

Is it worth checking the bath oil in the lowers and greasing the seals before use? Or so they come pretty well lubed from the factory?


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

JoshM said:


> My new Norco Sight came stock with a 140mm Diamond boost. Fork seems well made and solid feeling. Won't get a good ride in for a month or so due to winter.
> 
> Is it worth checking the bath oil in the lowers and greasing the seals before use? Or so they come pretty well lubed from the factory?


Mine came well greased and with lots of bath oil from the factory. My standard practice is to run new forks for about 10 hours then change out the bath oil to remove all the particles generated from the bushes wearing in.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

JoshM said:


> My new Norco Sight came stock with a 140mm Diamond boost. Fork seems well made and solid feeling. Won't get a good ride in for a month or so due to winter.
> 
> Is it worth checking the bath oil in the lowers and greasing the seals before use? Or so they come pretty well lubed from the factory?


DVO is good about shipping them ready to run.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doug said:


> I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


Great video. Where did you get those syringes?

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Cary said:


> Great video. Where did you get those syringes?


Amazon. They have a number of kits for around $10.

I have a set hanging on my workbench: marine grease, EPX grease, Slickoleum. Very nice to have them so accessible and easy to dispense with no mess.

Just be prepared for the odd looks when people see your stash of syringes and needles. I'll never forget my mother's concerned, "what is this for?" when she first saw them.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> Amazon. They have a number of kits for around $10.
> 
> I have a set hanging on my workbench: marine grease, EPX grease, Slickoleum. Very nice to have them so accessible and easy to dispense with no mess.
> 
> Just be prepared for the odd looks when people see your stash of syringes and needles. I'll never forget my mother's concerned, "what is this for?" when she first saw them.


Ohmygoodness I had no idea what I was missing out on. Now if I can get myself to the arts store for some little grease brushes to live in my 1lb cans I'll be complete.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

crimedog said:


> Ohmygoodness I had no idea what I was missing out on. Now if I can get myself to the arts store for some little grease brushes to live in my 1lb cans I'll be complete.


Just ordered both on Amazon. Damm antiseize brushes.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


Excellent video Doug thanks for sharing! Wish we had your video when I first did the mod. It would have saved a lot of time


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

Doug said:


> I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been wanting to do this for a while now but had the fear of screwing something up. Your video makes it very clear on how to do it. Hopefully I can find the time to get it done before the weekend.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Glad people are finding the video useful. It’s very easy once you know what to do. I could probably do it all in under 10 minutes. After a few more rides I’ll do a full bleed and pull the cartridge. I may try the piston flip with the shim stack mod just out of curiosity. 

I got a ride in today on my test loop. 2.5 up a double track trail then down a mile or two of fast rutted double track with two miles of rocky single track that a bit of everything. 

Fork felt great. I ran it with threee clicks of LSC and bumped up the pressure to 125 (usually run 115 to 120) and it still felt great on the slow baby head rock gardens. One slow rocky corner was smoother even though I picked a bad line. It soaked up my mistakes more than it had.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Great video thanks!


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> Glad people are finding the video useful. It's very easy once you know what to do. I could probably do it all in under 10 minutes. After a few more rides I'll do a full bleed and pull the cartridge. I may try the piston flip with the shim stack mod just out of curiosity.
> 
> I got a ride in today on my test loop. 2.5 up a double track trail then down a mile or two of fast rutted double track with two miles of rocky single track that a bit of everything.
> 
> Fork felt great. I ran it with threee clicks of LSC and bumped up the pressure to 125 (usually run 115 to 120) and it still felt great on the slow baby head rock gardens. One slow rocky corner was smoother even though I picked a bad line. It soaked up my mistakes more than it had.


Glad you're enjoying it, it's all mud here and my bike is in pieces but I'm looking forward to trying mine out in the spring. I'm pretty sure that Ronnie told me to take the top two shim off and not the two under the top shim as your instructions dictate though. I've reached out to him just in case as I've put my damper back together with fresh oil and I don't want to take it apart for no reason.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> I'm pretty sure that Ronnie told me to take the top two shim off and not the two under the top shim as your instructions dictate though.


I did clarify with him that the top shim functions as a clamp shim and stays. You could take it out in place of one of the others, but that would give a bit more damping with the wider diameter.

The other detail I'm going to check is the oil in the air cartridge. I'll take the valve core out, drain the oil, then see what was in there. Would be 5-20mL. 5mL is factory spec. More will make the air more progressive a la tokens.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

crimedog said:


> Glad you're enjoying it, it's all mud here and my bike is in pieces but I'm looking forward to trying mine out in the spring. I'm pretty sure that Ronnie told me to take the top two shim off and not the two under the top shim as your instructions dictate though. I've reached out to him just in case as I've put my damper back together with fresh oil and I don't want to take it apart for no reason.


The top two shims affect the high speed, the two under the face shim affect low speed


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Rats. I'll see how I feel once I put my Topaz back together. Might as well do it while it's still cold and gross out.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dlocki said:


> The top two shims affect the high speed, the two under the face shim affect low speed


There is no low speed component in that stack. The stock stack is a linear stack with preload, which makes it a digressive stack. With the mod, it is a linear stack with a shallower rise in dampening.

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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Doug said:


> I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


FYI there is a much simpler way to access the shims without disassembling the compression loader to that extent.

Back the hsc adjuster out all the way. Lift the green hsc preload collar with your hands as far as possible and you will see a 10mm wrench flat machined into the shaft. Hold that with a wrench and release the main piston nut.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Cary said:


> There is no low speed component in that stack. The stock stack is a linear stack with preload, which makes it a digressive stack. With the mod, it is a linear stack with a shallower rise in dampening.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


This has to be the best explanation I have found so far, to describe the changes that are made as result of the mod. My earlier consolidation of all the various feedback received describing how the mod 'felt' on the trail, ended up as a huge mess!

After originally flipping only the piston, I went back in and have also removed the ring shim/centre shim. I left the other shims in place as I figured that it might reduce the HSC too much overall. Based on what Cary has said, I tend to think I made the right decision as I am fairly light 155lb ready to ride, but I can ride quite aggressively as well.

On the trail it feels absolutely amazing now. The fork feels super composed through the rough rocks but also supportive through the berms. It has really really changed the feel of the fork from stock, and gave just that extra bit of improvement I wanted after only flipping the piston.

EDIT: I forgot to credit Doug's graph here too, which seems to match my own experience of having done piston only, followed by the piston with the ring/centre shims removed:



Doug said:


> It got into HSC sooner. It didn't feel bad (nothing like a Pike RC spiking) but now feels better. It didn't reduce HSC much and I use the same amount of travel. If I remove the ring shim I expect less HSC and should use more travel or bottom out with same settings.
> 
> I sketched this up. X axis is velocity (mm/sec) and y is force. What I think these changes would look like on a dyno. I could be wrong:
> Green = stock
> ...


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doug said:


> I made the recommended changes to the shim stack. It is easy and to help others I recorded the process.


I noticed your bladder is "sucked in"....mine wasn't like that, it looked more full and slightly ballooned..? Any idea if that makes any real difference.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Techspec360 said:


> I noticed your bladder is "sucked in"....mine wasn't like that, it looked more full and slightly ballooned..? Any idea if that makes any real difference.


Good eye, I was wondering if anyone would notice that. As the shock goes through it's travel the bladder compresses in the Diamond. (Most other bladder dampers expand) There was still sufficient volume to avoid fluid lock, but I expect may have had a slight affect on the damping. Less air/volume in the bladder means it May have a slight progressive effect on the end stroke damping.

It was trivial to take off the clips, slip the green collars down and lift up the end to let some air suck in and get it back to full. You can tell when I reassembled it there is more air. Warning! Those clips come off easy and can really fly! One shot across my garage and landed in the pocket of my tool bag. Fortunately I heard it hit and knew where to look. But it was an "oh boy what have I done" moment.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> Good eye, I was wondering if anyone would notice that. As the shock goes through it's travel the bladder compresses in the Diamond. (Most other bladder dampers expand) There was still sufficient volume to avoid fluid lock, but I expect may have had a slight affect on the damping. Less air/volume in the bladder means it May have a slight progressive effect on the end stroke damping.
> 
> It was trivial to take off the clips, slip the green collars down and lift up the end to let some air suck in and get it back to full. You can tell when I reassembled it there is more air. Warning! Those clips come off easy and can really fly! One shot across my garage and landed in the pocket of my tool bag. Fortunately I heard it hit and knew where to look. But it was an "oh boy what have I done" moment.


To add to that, Ronnie suggested that I use some thick grease on the ends of the bladder so when I had mine apart I loosened it and dabbed some on.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doug said:


> Good eye, I was wondering if anyone would notice that. As the shock goes through it's travel the bladder compresses in the Diamond. (Most other bladder dampers expand) There was still sufficient volume to avoid fluid lock, but I expect may have had a slight affect on the damping. Less air/volume in the bladder means it May have a slight progressive effect on the end stroke damping.
> 
> It was trivial to take off the clips, slip the green collars down and lift up the end to let some air suck in and get it back to full. You can tell when I reassembled it there is more air. Warning! Those clips come off easy and can really fly! One shot across my garage and landed in the pocket of my tool bag. Fortunately I heard it hit and knew where to look. But it was an "oh boy what have I done" moment.


Ah yes, the good ole "what have I done moment"...! Glad you found the clip....usually happens to me with hard to source parts the night before a race it seems...


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> To add to that, Ronnie suggested that I use some thick grease on the ends of the bladder so when I had mine apart I loosened it and dabbed some on.


Did he have anything more to say about the air volume/pressure in the bladder? Their documentation doesn't say anything about it, but they do sell replacement kits. A review on Vital MTB is how I figured out how it worked and should not be sucked in lime mine.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> Did he have anything more to say about the air volume/pressure in the bladder? Their documentation doesn't say anything about it, but they do sell replacement kits. A review on Vital MTB is how I figured out how it worked and should not be sucked in lime mine.


He said that sometimes they can get pressurized (although I'm not sure how that could happen). Since it's just atmospheric pressure I wouldn't expect that (pressurization) unless you were high altitude. I could see it getting compressed based on assembly or if it had sucked in some oil on compression but that's just my thoughts.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

So I’ve tried the removal of two upper shims & ring/center shim, and prior to that tried the piston flip (with stock shims in). In both cases I’m still not getting the feel I would like. I’m still feeling too harsh during straight on impacts of roots and rocks on the larger size. It’s not that the “harsh” really bothers me, it’s just that the tire is deflected upward and gets really upset in the rock gardens at speed. Cranking up the LSC does make it more harsh but the deflected feel seems to remain the same, leading me to believe it’s originating between high and low speed (mid speed) circuit. After the mods not really changing what I’m feeling much I was wondering if I’m going to need to start modifying the base valve stack more OR do I need to get into the midvlave? Has anyone been into that guy?

I am a lighter guy, 175-180 geared, and do push it hard but the fork for me deflects too much on the large roots and rocks. On smooth trails I close the LSC and add a click or two of HSC but most of the stuff I ride is super rough. The piston flip seemed to provide biggest improvement to the harsh deflection (but the LSC got a bit to firm). And the shim removal really didn’t seem to change much to me.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

So, I went back and undid the piston flip, modded the shim stack (I removed the 16mm and ring shim), and documented the actual shims while I was in there. My observations after putting it together (I will be a while before I do a hard ride on it, I broke a finger and had the pins removed last month and still can't wrap it around the bars):

1) Removing the ring shim (and therefore preload) on the stack has significantly reduced the low speed dampening and the effect of the low speed adjustment. This is to be expected, as the preload on the stack holds the high speed slightly closed and forces flow through the low speed needle. Without it, the high speed stack can start to open immediately. A good explanation of the need for a certain amount of high speed to have the low speed adjuster is here, about 11:30 minutes in: 




2) The high speed adjuster is a little different on this fork than most. It does not preload the entire stack, rather it only adds preload to the shims that are larger than 18mm.

3) I am probably going to put the ring shim back in as I like the low speed adjustablity and instead experiment with going to a .1 19mm or 20mm shim in place of the .15. Also, it might be worth playing with the ring shim itself, moving to a .1 centering shim and .2 ring shim, which will decrease the preload a bit, but should have the low speed control more effective. Obviously, without a dyno or running it through shim stacker, I am just experimenting to find a setup I like.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Techspec360 said:


> So I've tried the removal of two upper shims & ring/center shim, and prior to that tried the piston flip (with stock shims in). In both cases I'm still not getting the feel I would like. I'm still feeling too harsh during straight on impacts of roots and rocks on the larger size. It's not that the "harsh" really bothers me, it's just that the tire is deflected upward and gets really upset in the rock gardens at speed. Cranking up the LSC does make it more harsh but the deflected feel seems to remain the same, leading me to believe it's originating between high and low speed (mid speed) circuit. After the mods not really changing what I'm feeling much I was wondering if I'm going to need to start modifying the base valve stack more OR do I need to get into the midvlave? Has anyone been into that guy?
> 
> I am a lighter guy, 175-180 geared, and do push it hard but the fork for me deflects too much on the large roots and rocks. On smooth trails I close the LSC and add a click or two of HSC but most of the stuff I ride is super rough. The piston flip seemed to provide biggest improvement to the harsh deflection (but the LSC got a bit to firm). And the shim removal really didn't seem to change much to me.


A few thoughts:

1) Have you pulled the lowers, changes the fluid and regreased the seals? It can make a huge difference.

2) Where are you with pressures? Running too low of a pressure lead to this feeling as you end up further in the spring curve where it stiffer. Try the recommended pressure, or no more than 10 psi lower, and go on to following steps before playing with the pressure.

3) Have you played with the OTT?

4) Rebound dampening can also have a profound effect on feel. Have you played with it?

5) Do not play with the mid valve. They are very touch and can cavitate easily if changed. Midvalve tuning really requires a dyno or extensive calculations.


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## torsp (Oct 9, 2012)

Is anyone having their rebound adjustment change during riding? I set mine at 9 from open and it will go to 5 from open after 2-3 hrs of riding, it's maddening.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cary said:


> So, I went back and undid the piston flip, modded the shim stack (I removed the 16mm and ring shim), and documented the actual shims while I was in there. My observations after putting it together (I will be a while before I do a hard ride on it, I broke a finger and had the pins removed last month and still can't wrap it around the bars):
> 
> 1) Removing the ring shim (and therefore preload) on the stack has significantly reduced the low speed dampening and the effect of the low speed adjustment. This is to be expected, as the preload on the stack holds the high speed slightly closed and forces flow through the low speed needle. Without it, the high speed stack can start to open immediately. A good explanation of the need for a certain amount of high speed to have the low speed adjuster is here, about 11:30 minutes in:
> 
> ...


I'm with ya on this.... The piston mod and the "Ronnie" mod mentioned in here (top 2 shims and ring/center removed) did not cut it for me. I too investigated further and confirmed what you have already mentioned, that the preloader contacts the 19mm shim, and therefor only preloads the 3 largest shims. I don't like this setup because it seems that increasing the "HSC knob" would essentially only increase the spike as the oil tries to go through the low speed port (and more through mid valve I suppose) until it overcomes the preload, instead of transitioning to the base stack earlier. Plus these 3 larger shims are essentially acting only against the preloader until significant oil flow occurs during a big hit at which time then utilizing the remainder of the stack. I understand this is completely as designed BUT to me this seems to create a mid-speed gap.

Since I wanted to avoid getting into the midvalve yet here's what I am going to try. I didn't have any shims handy so I made due rearranging the stock shims. I created a cross over to try to soften the mid-speed spike and help the transition to high-speed. Depending on how it feels, I may try the center shim (13mm) as the cross over instead of the 15mm.

>Shaft<
Clamp shim
16mm
17mm
15mm (cross over shim)
20mm (preloader contacts this shim)
21mm
>Piston<

I haven't gotten a good ride yet but initial tests confirm there is still use-able LSC adjustment, less spiking on harsh landings and when ramming into 4" square edged hits. Initially I feel like there is better mid-stroke support compared to both of the other mods. Will report back once getting out on the rocky/root infested trails.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Techspec360 said:


> I'm with ya on this.... The piston mod and the "Ronnie" mod mentioned in here (top 2 shims and ring/center removed) did not cut it for me. I too investigated further and confirmed what you have already mentioned, that the preloader contacts the 19mm shim, and therefor only preloads the 3 largest shims. I don't like this setup because it seems that increasing the "HSC knob" would essentially only increase the spike as the oil tries to go through the low speed port (and more through mid valve I suppose) until it overcomes the preload, instead of transitioning to the base stack earlier. Plus these 3 larger shims are essentially acting only against the preloader until significant oil flow occurs during a big hit at which time then utilizing the remainder of the stack. I understand this is completely as designed BUT to me this seems to create a mid-speed gap.
> 
> Since I wanted to avoid getting into the midvalve yet here's what I am going to try. I didn't have any shims handy so I made due rearranging the stock shims. I created a cross over to try to soften the mid-speed spike and help the transition to high-speed. Depending on how it feels, I may try the center shim (13mm) as the cross over instead of the 15mm.
> 
> ...


I didn't think about doing a crossover shim, but it may be a good idea in this application. I don't think the high speed adjuster has a huge affect on this fork.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

torsp said:


> Is anyone having their rebound adjustment change during riding? I set mine at 9 from open and it will go to 5 from open after 2-3 hrs of riding, it's maddening.


My rebound is OK however my OTT increases itself during a ride! Roni doesn't know what is causing it.


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## torsp (Oct 9, 2012)

That's not good, thanks for responding teK.


teK-- said:


> My rebound is OK however my OTT increases itself during a ride! Roni doesn't know what is causing it.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> My rebound is OK however my OTT increases itself during a ride! Roni doesn't know what is causing it.


Maybe dissemble, clean and apply some purple loctite to the internal threads. It will increase the resistance to turning, but not so much you can't adjust it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Cary said:


> Maybe dissemble, clean and apply some purple loctite to the internal threads. It will increase the resistance to turning, but not so much you can't adjust it.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks I was thinking something like that.

Maybe use loctite blue, because once I set the OTT I don't need to easily change it. Also it takes a reasonable torque to turn the setting by hand, yet it still loses its setting which means that purple loctite might not be strong enough.

Another idea is I wonder how the clicks in the adjustment dial are formed, and if it is those clicks which are meant to retain the OTT setting. If there is a spring and ball detent or a metal latch which presses against the adjustment dial notches, then perhaps it's too loose.

I've also wondered if I need to grease under the ends of the spring where it touches the end plates. Just thinking like with coil shocks where the preload collar can turn by itself due to the spring winding up during its natural range of motion. With coil shocks, greasing the collar or installing a thrust bearing can avoid this.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> Thanks I was thinking something like that.
> 
> Maybe use loctite blue, because once I set the OTT I don't need to easily change it. Also it takes a reasonable torque to turn the setting by hand, yet it still loses its setting which means that purple loctite might not be strong enough.
> 
> ...


I think you are all over it and will probably solve it when you open it up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I pulled my non-boost Diamond apart last night to service lowers and do a full bleed. While I was at it I decided to open the air cartridge and see how hard that step is. 

Not bad:
-shaft clamps to hold it in place but not needed
-heat gun to heat up loctite (1 minute and IR thermometer read 230+/-)
-old inner tube to grip the cartridge (all you need, but shaft clamps help)
-90degree bent nose pliers to turn the cap

I got it off with minimal force and very little marring of the cap. Had I put heat shrink wrap around the ends of the pliers it would not have left a mark. 

Heating the loctite is the key. Do that and it should be a simple process. Boost version has slotted cap so it’s even easier and a total non-issue.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Hi Doug whilst you had it apart, did you happen to notice how the OTT works? I am interested to know what gives the adjustment dial the "clicks" as you turn it. Thanks.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

teK-- said:


> Hi Doug whilst you had it apart, did you happen to notice how the OTT works? I am interested to know what gives the adjustment dial the "clicks" as you turn it. Thanks.


The detents or "clicks" are in the adjuster knob. Both the OTT and rebound use a knob with 18mm hex head with a 4mm hex that slides into the leg. These have internal parts that give the clicks.

The OTT doesn't use clicks but since these are similar design it was probably cheaper to make them both "clicky".


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> View attachment 1183727
> 
> 
> The detents or "clicks" are in the adjuster knob. Both the OTT and rebound use a knob with 18mm hex head with a 4mm hex that slides into the leg. These have internal parts that give the clicks.
> ...


Thanks Doug that is helpful. I may very well be able to fix my OTT issue by working only on the selector dial then. Maybe I will just set it in place from the outside using a couple of dabs of superglue lol.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

A full service is pretty easy. Most annoying part is the final bleed and getting air out. The cup method means oil gets all over. I also tried closing the bleed hole, cycle the shaft, open hole and inextricably oil. That works too but may not be as reliable at getting air out. I may 3D print a cup with fitting that goes into the bleed hole. That won’t be as messy potentially. 

Anyone else find a good solution?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> A full service is pretty easy. Most annoying part is the final bleed and getting air out. The cup method means oil gets all over. I also tried closing the bleed hole, cycle the shaft, open hole and inextricably oil. That works too but may not be as reliable at getting air out. I may 3D print a cup with fitting that goes into the bleed hole. That won't be as messy potentially.
> 
> Anyone else find a good solution?


Ha, no. I didn't end up finding a good "cup" so I cut a hole in a qt zip lock bag and taped it tightly around the cap. A little ghetto but whatever. Next time I'll do it before I insert the compression valving and bladder back into the cartridge though, that was the messiest part. The bag had enough structural integrity for just enough oil volume where I didn't have air sucked back into the system and once I put the bleed screw back in the cleanup was pretty easy.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> A full service is pretty easy. Most annoying part is the final bleed and getting air out. The cup method means oil gets all over. I also tried closing the bleed hole, cycle the shaft, open hole and inextricably oil. That works too but may not be as reliable at getting air out. I may 3D print a cup with fitting that goes into the bleed hole. That won't be as messy potentially.
> 
> Anyone else find a good solution?


I'm actually wondering if the bleed funnel from Shimano brakes would thread into the bleed hole. That would be a very nice solution... is anyone able to check?

The first time I did it I duct taped a ziplock bag around the top of the cartridge and used that as a reservoir to flood the bleed hole. But still spilt some.

Others have cut the bottom out of a small medicine cup and that seemed to fit reasonably well into the top of the cartridge.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Doug said:


> A full service is pretty easy. Most annoying part is the final bleed and getting air out. The cup method means oil gets all over. I also tried closing the bleed hole, cycle the shaft, open hole and inextricably oil. That works too but may not be as reliable at getting air out. I may 3D print a cup with fitting that goes into the bleed hole. That won't be as messy potentially.
> 
> Anyone else find a good solution?


I'm still interested in buying a boost diamond for my Knolly. I'd really like I fork I can do a full service on at home without to many crazy special tools and a decent online guide to follow. Does the DVO Diamond tick those boxes?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

buddiesconfusion said:


> I'm still interested in buying a boost diamond for my Knolly. I'd really like I fork I can do a full service on at home without to many crazy special tools and a decent online guide to follow. Does the DVO Diamond tick those boxes?


Definitely. Only 'odd' tools needed are flat edge 22 and 32mm sockets. Any fork will require similar sockets. Easy to make or just get the $60 kit from park.

I could probably strip it down and rebuild in under an hour next time.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

teK-- said:


> I'm actually wondering if the bleed funnel from Shimano brakes would thread into the bleed hole. That would be a very nice solution... is anyone able to check?


I tried that. The tip isn't long enough. Funnel hits the top cap before a good seal forms.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> I tried that. The tip isn't long enough. Funnel hits the top cap before a good seal forms.


But the thread is the same?

The bleed nipple off a shimano caliper is the same thread as their bleed funnel. If the thread is long enough on the nipple to screw into the damper cartridge, I could run a small length of pvc hose and into a syringe which would be a no spill solution.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

teK-- said:


> But the thread is the same?


Not sure. I'll try threading the bleed screw into the caliper threads to find out.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

teK-- said:


> But the thread is the same?
> 
> The bleed nipple off a shimano caliper is the same thread as their bleed funnel. If the thread is long enough on the nipple to screw into the damper cartridge, I could run a small length of pvc hose and into a syringe which would be a no spill solution.


The other thing I thought of trying was one of those cheap plastic syringes. The tip might be jammed in there (similar to how Magura levers are bled).


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I just cut the bottom of a Magura syringe off and slide it on. 


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Doug said:


> Not sure. I'll try threading the bleed screw into the caliper threads to find out.


Nope, not even close.. I don't see anything threading in there AND having a hole for oil flow (beyond a tiny and slow amount of flow if one found such a bolt).


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Cary said:


> I just cut the bottom of a Magura syringe off and slide it on.


I have a Formula syringe. It is 23mm but the ID of the damper is 20.5mm.

I'll try taping a bag to the cartridge. That seems like its effective, but not necessarily pretty or clean.

FYI, I took a paper towel and wrapped it around the cartridge and used a velcro strip to hold it in place. Then any oil that leaks out is caught thee. No drip pan needed and I just need to clean up the top of the cartridge. Seems like a waste of oil though...


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> I have a Formula syringe. It is 23mm but the ID of the damper is 20.5mm.
> 
> I'll try taping a bag to the cartridge. That seems like its effective, but not necessarily pretty or clean.
> 
> FYI, I took a paper towel and wrapped it around the cartridge and used a velcro strip to hold it in place. Then any oil that leaks out is caught thee. No drip pan needed and I just need to clean up the top of the cartridge. Seems like a waste of oil though...


Thanks for checking.

I'd be curious what they do at DVO. Surely with the amount of forks they must service they don't want to be wasting too much oil from spillage.

For now I'll just continue to duct tape a zip lock bag around the top of the cartridge, then wrap a towel around it to give it some structural support and contain any spillage. Once the whole catridge with towel is clamped in my workstand it all stays in place pretty well.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I use a large rubber electrical cable gland and cut the bottom off so its a tight fit over the cartridge. it works well but is still not the best way to do it.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I thought that DVO might have a better solution than the cup they show in the Diamond docs. Sure enough, the Sapphire (same damper) docs and video show a "Bleed Bottle":





Amazon has options from syringes to dispenser bottles.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

The tread of the bleed port is M2.5x0.45 

im going to have a bleed adapter made i think..


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

For anyone playing with shim stacks, I have attached a PDF of a spreadsheet of the stacks I have been playing with. I am 230 pounds and run 135 psi baseline. I originally had the piston flipped, which worked well except not quiet enough high speed on the biggest hits leading to some bottoming. The stack I am trying now is to restore the low speed control, and try to to shift more control over the stack to the high speed adjuster which loads the 19mm shims and larger. I am guessing that part of the suggested stack modification suggested by Ronnie is driven by trying to make it work for customers who don't have spare shims, but I have an assortment so have more flexibility.

View attachment 1184628


View attachment DVO Diamond Shim Stacks.pdf


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Cary, just for the sake of clarification what Ronnie told me was definitely to take out the 14 and 15mm shims as well as the ring and centering shims from the compression stack. I spoke with him a little while ago and asked for confirmation based on Doug's posts above and he confirmed with me. Maybe they were different recommendations based on our situations or maybe it's because I keep talking to him on Fridays and he's fried.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> Cary, just for the sake of clarification what Ronnie told me was definitely to take out the 14 and 15mm shims as well as the ring and centering shims from the compression stack. I spoke with him a little while ago and asked for confirmation based on Doug's posts above and he confirmed with me. Maybe they were different recommendations based on our situations or maybe it's because I keep talking to him on Fridays and he's fried.


I'm 190 geared up and wanted less HSC. I may have misunderstood what he told me. I don't expect the difference to be too much regardless. A narrower clamp shim would reduce HSC or at least rhe slope of the curve, right?

I would like to get some shims for tuning the Diamond more and my wife's Mattoc. Seem like a good investment to have around.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> I'm 190 geared up and wanted less HSC. I may have misunderstood what he told me. I don't expect the difference to be too much regardless. A narrower clamp shim would reduce HSC or at least rhe slope of the curve, right?
> 
> I would like to get some shims for tuning the Diamond more and my wife's Mattoc. Seem like a good investment to have around.


It's tough for a laymen like me to say what exactly a 16/17/19/20/21 stack would do vs a 14/17/19/20/21 stack. Since there's only 5 shims I would think that it would made a noticeable difference though (Ronnie thought so although he didn't specify how and I didn't press him because I had to go.) Maybe the hardest hits would have less damping and there could be too little?

Shims would be awesome to have on hand but they are not cheap either. The knowledge to go with them would be great too  I did get the same impression as Cary that Ronnie's suggestions are based around the shims that are in their components and I'd be curious if anyone gets suggestions for "non-standard" stacks but it doesn't seem like they want to go down that rabbit hole.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> I'd be curious if anyone gets suggestions for "non-standard" stacks but it doesn't seem like they want to go down that rabbit hole.


I did ask if they had Dyno charts from various stack (like what manitou did for the ABS+) but he just said to remove the shims. I'm sure they have tested different stacks, but that is definitely a rabbit hole to go down with consumers. They don't seem to talk about that.

This weekend on my first ride after a full rebuild I passed a group ending their ride. I noticed an unusual amount of dvo gear. Later when looking at strava I noticed why, it was Bryson and some other DVO guys testing the new stuff. Missed my chance for some trailside tuning tips!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> It's tough for a laymen like me to say what exactly a 16/17/19/20/21 stack would do vs a 14/17/19/20/21 stack. Since there's only 5 shims I would think that it would made a noticeable difference though (Ronnie thought so although he didn't specify how and I didn't press him because I had to go.)


https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/Manitou ABS+Tuning Guide.pdf

That has a few examples of shim stacks and dyno charts. Not applicable to the diamond per se but the theory is the same. Note the two in the linear series that differ only in clam shim size. 11 vs 13 mm makes a big difference. A 13mm clamp shim adds up to 50% more damping force at full LSC for this damper. The diamond doesn't have as much LSC so the difference likely isn't as much.

From that doc:

"Larger clamp shims increase the slope of the damping curve, so this enables a greater increase at high velocity vs low and mi-velocity. (Small bump compliance coupled with bottoming resistance.)

Adding more bending shims coupled with smaller clamp shim boost mid-velocity damping force without creating excess damping force at high stroke velocity. (More control with out undue harshness.)"


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Manitou uses a dished piston which takes the place of the ring shim. If you have removed the ring shim, only the linear stacks in the Manitou guide have any comparison. 
2) The diamond does not use a base shim. The 14mm shim is .15, base shims are much thicker. The size of the shaft where the bottom shim touches is the base shim. 
3) I like the new stack. It felt very plush but bob could be controlled with the low speed adjustment (not quiet as much as stock). It felt good with two turns of high speed, putting me in the middle of the adjuster. I need more time on it, but it is close for me. I may play with going to a .1 21mm shim and .15 20mm to add more low speed control. If I need more high speed for jumps and drops, I will add it to the 15 or 16 mm. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> This weekend on my first ride after a full rebuild I passed a group ending their ride. I noticed an unusual amount of dvo gear. Later when looking at strava I noticed why, it was Bryson and some other DVO guys testing the new stuff. Missed my chance for some trailside tuning tips!


Too cool! Jr I assume. I'd love to meet those guys. I listened to VitalMTB's interview with Sr recently and was pretty blown away. What a smart and all around awesome guy.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> Too cool! Jr I assume. I'd love to meet those guys. I listened to VitalMTB's interview with Sr recently and was pretty blown away. What a smart and all around awesome guy.


It was Sr. and a few others. There was a large group of about 10 riders waiting at the bottom of a very popular technical trail. I'd guess not all of them were with DVO but some others were and probably not listed on Strava. Looked like some of the engineers with their sponsored riders (I did recognize one local DVO sponsored rider). Probably some Topaz 2 and Onyx forks I could have gotten a peek at if I were more perceptive!

I listened to that podcast too and was also impressed. What they didn't mention is he has his MBA from Harvard!


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## tektek (Dec 3, 2007)

*Travel adjust 29" boost version - removing 27mm nut*

Hi all,

Just purchased a new 150mm 29" fork for my Evil, however having issues removing the 27mm nut, the shaft keeps spinning. I have tried using a snap pilers to hold the "green round with 3 holes" part and also using the spanner to hold the plug at same time as loosening the 27mm. Does anyone have an idea how to accomplish this task?


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/media/wysiwyg/Manitou ABS+Tuning Guide.pdf
> 
> That has a few examples of shim stacks and dyno charts. Not applicable to the diamond per se but the theory is the same. Note the two in the linear series that differ only in clam shim size. 11 vs 13 mm makes a big difference. A 13mm clamp shim adds up to 50% more damping force at full LSC for this damper. The diamond doesn't have as much LSC so the difference likely isn't as much.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing Doug, that Manitou guide is a gold mine!

There is some seriously good info being shared on this thread. Keep it coming everyone!


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

tektek said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just purchased a new 150mm 29" fork for my Evil, however having issues removing the 27mm nut, the shaft keeps spinning. I have tried using a snap pilers to hold the "green round with 3 holes" part and also using the spanner to hold the plug at same time as loosening the 27mm. Does anyone have an idea how to accomplish this task?


Do you have air in the cartridge? It'll help, a little. Supposedly. The first time I did mine I didn't have my shaft clamps yet so I wrapped a tube around the cartridge for grip, used an open ended 27mm wrench, and some internal snap ring pliers as a spanner and somehow had enough hands to break it free and take it off. Don't forget to let the air out after you break it free! I wouldn't call it easy but it wasn't too hard either.


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## tektek (Dec 3, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Do you have air in the cartridge? It'll help, a little. Supposedly. The first time I did mine I didn't have my shaft clamps yet so I wrapped a tube around the cartridge for grip, used an open ended 27mm wrench, and some internal snap ring pliers as a spanner and somehow had enough hands to break it free and take it off. Don't forget to let the air out after you break it free! I wouldn't call it easy but it wasn't too hard either.


Thanks for your response, I have over 120psi in the cartridge. I am following the DVO video. Did you use the internal snap ring pliers inserted the metal "round" part with 3 holes?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

tektek said:


> Thanks for your response, I have over 120psi in the cartridge. I am following the DVO video. Did you use the internal snap ring pliers inserted the metal "round" part with 3 holes?


Yes, exactly. There will be scratching but it doesn't matter. It's not as easy as in the video.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

So I thought I'd give the travel reduction a go. Looks simple enough in the youtube video....guess again.
Couldn't get the bloody lock ring to budge despite heating for several minutes (allthough with a very hot hair drier not a dedicated heat gun).
Bent the tool and got some nasty marks in the ring, but no movement....:madman:

Also I was a bit too eager pulling it all apart and lifted the white part which holds the small balls on springs. 
The first two I just lifted off, but the second set flew all over the place.
Thanksfully the springs are still in the white bit and I found the four balls.
But I also found a fifth smaller one??
You can see it in between the bigger ones in the picture.
I am wondering if this bit is actually off the fork or off something else?

For re-assembly what is the proper procedure? Just stick the balls in the springs and push back in place? Does the dial have to be pre-positioned in any particular way?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> Couldn't get the bloody lock ring to budge despite heating for several minutes (allthough with a very hot hair drier not a dedicated heat gun).
> 
> For re-assembly what is the proper procedure? Just stick the balls in the springs and push back in place? Does the dial have to be pre-positioned in any particular way?


The hair dryer wasn't hot enough. I heated mine to 250f (IR thermometer) andvit took a minute or so with a heat gun. I then used bent nose pliers.

When putting it back together just make sure the LSC dial is in the right position. Ie 1 when turned all the way clockwise.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

More heat, biggee pliers and sorted! 
Seem to have lost two of the small springs though. I swear yesterday they were all there....starting to suspect our son has been playing with daddys toys...
Hope i can get them as spares from Dvo.

Definitely sounds a bit more now than before I had it apart, slooshing kind of sound reminding me of old marzocchis.
And sometimes a slight sort of plopp noise (rubbery sound not metallic) just when breaking loose at start of a compression. Sounds familiar? I filled according to service guide 35 cc on damper side and 25 on air side 7.5 wt.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> More heat, biggee pliers and sorted!
> Seem to have lost two of the small springs though. I swear yesterday they were all there....starting to suspect our son has been playing with daddys toys...
> Hope i can get them as spares from Dvo.
> 
> ...


That sound is probably the OTT spring rubbing (and why it sounds like an old Marzhocchi which were coil/oil. Did you grease the OTT spring when putting it back together? They use a generous amount of Slickoleoum on it and when you pull it all apart it can get wiped off the surface of the spring as you handle it.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

crimedog said:


> It's tough for a laymen like me to say what exactly a 16/17/19/20/21 stack would do vs a 14/17/19/20/21 stack. Since there's only 5 shims I would think that it would made a noticeable difference though (Ronnie thought so although he didn't specify how and I didn't press him because I had to go.) Maybe the hardest hits would have less damping and there could be too little?
> 
> Shims would be awesome to have on hand but they are not cheap either. The knowledge to go with them would be great too  I did get the same impression as Cary that Ronnie's suggestions are based around the shims that are in their components and I'd be curious if anyone gets suggestions for "non-standard" stacks but it doesn't seem like they want to go down that rabbit hole.


I found this site that has shims, don't seem too crazy expensive if you know a few that you are looking for. Revalving Shims


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Techspec360 said:


> I found this site that has shims, don't seem too crazy expensive if you know a few that you are looking for. Revalving Shims


Yup that's Craig at Avalanche. That's who I'd buy from if I had the time to tune by trial and error.


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## tr1cky_k1d (Nov 19, 2007)

Doug said:


> That sound is probably the OTT spring rubbing (and why it sounds like an old Marzhocchi which were coil/oil. Did you grease the OTT spring when putting it back together? They use a generous amount of Slickoleoum on it and when you pull it all apart it can get wiped off the surface of the spring as you handle it.


Sounds like that should be it. To be honest there was not real grease visible on the spring, just fork oil (or so it seemed at least) but certainly the spring was less greasy after than before.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> Sounds like that should be it. To be honest there was not real grease visible on the spring, just fork oil (or so it seemed at least) but certainly the spring was less greasy after than before.


The fork is letting you know it needs service. Mine got really noisy even on small compressions. Pulled it apart and greased it noise gone. Put a giant wad of grease on it, it'll be quiet then.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

tr1cky_k1d said:


> Sounds like that should be it. To be honest there was not real grease visible on the spring, just fork oil (or so it seemed at least) but certainly the spring was less greasy after than before.


Strange. Mine looks like a Fox air shaft.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

crimedog said:


> Strange. Mine looks like a Fox air shaft.


Mine had the slickoleum gooped on. Several tablespoons worth. I was surprised how much. The DVO videos have pretty clean OTT springs so he doesn't make a mess in the video.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Don't mind the mess. Found a deal I couldn't resist and jumped on a green diamond for the LT. Is extending it out to 160mm pretty easy?









Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Has anyone tried lowering a standard diamond to 100MM?


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> Don't mind the mess. Found a deal I couldn't resist and jumped on a green diamond for the LT. Is extending it out to 160mm pretty easy?
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Easy if you can get the 27mm locknut off. I was unable to so I called DVO. They recommended going in the other way by removing the green ferule and top cap. If you use this method make sure you have shaft clamps and a heat gun.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Ed_284 said:


> Easy if you can get the 27mm locknut off. I was unable to so I called DVO. They recommended going in the other way by removing the green ferule and top cap. If you use this method make sure you have shaft clamps and a heat gun.


Thanks for the tip!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

TamiJean said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Boost and non-boost forks have slightly different air cartridges so check their videos for the basic methodology. 27mm lock but refers to the boost cartridge and many of us were successful in getting it off without heat.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

rollertoaster said:


> I've been on a flipped piston for a while but I still find it a little harsh at 4 or more clicks of lsc at hsc setting that I use.
> 
> So I had a thought...
> 
> ...


Coincidentally, I just contacted Roni seeking a recommendation for my setup. He suggested the same mod that you've already attempted.

I am 155Lb ready to ride, mostly downhill/enduro tracks, grade B amateur level (not super fast but not slow either).

He recommended:


Piston in stock orientation
Remove ring/centre shim
Remove 14mm shim
Remove 15mm shim
Remove the green preload collar, 
Remove the accordion spring that's above the preload collar

I questioned him on whether removing the collar and spring would effectively delete all function from the external HSC adjuster, and he confirmed it would be the case.

I will try it this weekend and report back.

He didn't mention anything about removing a plate that presses on the spring. What are your thoughts on on that; is it necessary?

Also how is your mod going since you've had more riding?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I removed the plate that presses on the spring also. It's not necessary, but no sense leaving it in there either. 

This is my current configuration
Rebound 
15 0.1 
10 0.1 x2
15 0.1 
12 0.1 

Compression w/ flipped piston
21 0.15 x2 
21 0.10 x2 
20 x 0.1 x2 
10 x 0.1 x2 
20x 0.15 
19 0.15 
17 0.15 
16 0.15 
15 0.15 
14 0.15

My thoughts on this :
Amazing. I have never been able to run anywhere near this amount of lsc before. Normally it ends up being harsh and losing traction. On my 160 diamond i am running the lsc at #5. It's firm and supportive, i can push into turns and ride the front end very hard. Brake dive has been drastically reduced.

I also have a 140mm damper which is running a similar (slightly firmer compression stack) lsc on #6. Also feels amazing but with a little firmer feel to match the reduced travel.

Currently I'm 185 lbs fwiw

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

rollertoaster said:


> I removed the plate that presses on the spring also. It's not necessary, but no sense leaving it in there either.
> 
> This is my current configuration
> Rebound
> ...


Yeah wow looks like U added 6 shims to make up for the loss do the HSC adjuster.

How many trial and error did you go through, to arrive at that stack?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

teK-- said:


> Yeah wow looks like U added 6 shims to make up for the loss do the HSC adjuster.
> 
> How many trial and error did you go through, to arrive at that stack?


Luckily this was only my second revision. I won't be changing it anytime soon. I'm fortunate enough to have a spare damper so I can swap them out easily when I make a change.

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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

teK-- said:


> Yeah wow looks like U added 6 shims to make up for the loss do the HSC adjuster.
> 
> How many trial and error did you go through, to arrive at that stack?


He also flipped the piston which significantly changes the high speed flow.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

teK-- said:


> Coincidentally, I just contacted Roni seeking a recommendation for my setup. He suggested the same mod that you've already attempted.
> 
> I am 155Lb ready to ride, mostly downhill/enduro tracks, grade B amateur level (not super fast but not slow either).
> 
> ...


I've been toying with the idea of removing the preloader prior to seeing the updates on this post....but looks like others are going that route as well.

Most recently I have run the base valve stack with the preloader in a few configurations but I always keep feeling like the preloader is the culprit to the mid speed spikes. The HSC seems to be on par but that area between LSC and HSC is where I am not happy. So what I tried most recently was remove the ring and center shim, also the 19mm (shim that the preloader contacts) so that it was only preloading the 21 and 20mm. I then added the 15 as a crossover followed by the 17 and 16 . With this configuration I was able to dial the low-mid speed using the preloader (found 1.25 turns in was happy spot before too spikey in the rooty stuff. However, this configuration feels better than any of the other mods I have done so far. I feel way more low-mid speed support and can really push it hard through the rough but it still gets a touch upset on the 4-6" chop.

___ 16
____ 17
__ 15
_____ 20 (preloader contact) 
______ 21

I left still feeling like the preloader was choking it off too much as flow increased but I really like the low to mid speed improvement. I know if I remove the preloader I am going to need more shims to support the low-mid speed part of the stack. SO I removed the preloader and went with this configuration. Since I don't have any additional shims handy, I will try this to see if it helps tame the mid speed spike, then tailor further from there.

___ 16
____ 17
__ 15
_____ 18 (out of Topaz, original 19 went in there)
______ 20
_______ 21

Need to take this out to see if it has enough low-mid support and what changes I notice in the 4-6" chop.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Techspec360 said:


> I've been toying with the idea of removing the preloader prior to seeing the updates on this post....but looks like others are going that route as well.
> 
> Most recently I have run the base valve stack with the preloader in a few configurations but I always keep feeling like the preloader is the culprit to the mid speed spikes. The HSC seems to be on par but that area between LSC and HSC is where I am not happy. So what I tried most recently was remove the ring and center shim, also the 19mm (shim that the preloader contacts) so that it was only preloading the 21 and 20mm. I then added the 15 as a crossover followed by the 17 and 16 . With this configuration I was able to dial the low-mid speed using the preloader (found 1.25 turns in was happy spot before too spikey in the rooty stuff. However, this configuration feels better than any of the other mods I have done so far. I feel way more low-mid speed support and can really push it hard through the rough but it still gets a touch upset on the 4-6" chop.
> 
> ...


Does your low speed control still work? I found without some preload on the stack (ring shim), I didn't have enough low speed compression.

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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cary said:


> Does your low speed control still work? I found without some preload on the stack (ring shim), I didn't have enough low speed compression.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Yea it sure does. All the way from 1-6 I can feel the change. Not sure if your flipped or not, but with the piston flipped which I tried and did not like, I felt way less change with the LSC adjustment. I'm running piston in stock configuration. FWIW the first mod I listed did a nice job of LSC support plus you could dial in the mid speed with the preloader. That may be an option for you. I liked it a lot but on the trails I ride, I am still looking for a bit more flow on those sharp roots/rocks. If I rode mostly buff with only occasional 2-4" sharp chop, I probably would have never looked back. Quite frankly I may end up back there anyway.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Can anyone comment how much exposed stancion they have in a resting position? I was told the boost version came 150mm but I measured the exposed stancion and it was just around 6.25 inches. by comparison my outgoing fork has just under 6.5 inches at 160mm. I know fox usually has more exposed stancion than said on paper. I don't want to crack this open to find out there are no spacers to take out.

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

TamiJean said:


> Can anyone comment how much exposed stancion they have in a resting position? I was told the boost version came 150mm but I measured the exposed stancion and it was just around 6.25 inches. by comparison my outgoing fork has just under 6.5 inches at 160mm. I know fox usually has more exposed stancion than said on paper. I don't want to crack this open to find out there are no spacers to take out.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


My non boost uses all the exposed stanction. Sounds like it is set up at 160mm. Take the air out and compress all the way to be sure how much travel it has.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Doug said:


> My non boost uses all the exposed stanction. Sounds like it is set up at 160mm. Take the air out and compress all the way to be sure how much travel it has.


Thanks I'll give that a try

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

I find if running any OTT at all it starts to suck down the length of the fork. With 1 turn OTT and 110psi I have 159mm showing which includes the height of the travel O ring (160mm travel version)


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

teK-- said:


> I find if running any OTT at all it starts to suck down the length of the fork. With 1 turn OTT and 110psi I have 159mm showing which includes the height of the travel O ring (160mm travel version)


Thank you

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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Still waiting for someone to buy my pike so I can buy a diamond. Out of curiosity why would you initially flip the piston? I’m about 200 pounds geared up and a decent aggressive rider.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

buddiesconfusion said:


> Still waiting for someone to buy my pike so I can buy a diamond. Out of curiosity why would you initially flip the piston? I'm about 200 pounds geared up and a decent aggressive rider.


The Diamond is tuned for aggressive riding. For some lighter and less aggressive rides less HSC is desirable. Flipping the piston is an easy way to reduce HSC and LSC. So it is smoother and doesn't spike in slow rough sections like rock gardens.

In your case out of the box it will probably feel perfect and be the best fork you've ever ridden.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

FWIW I cracked it open anyway and found there was a spacers in there. Took it out and with 130psi and 8 turns of OTT I measured 6.5 inches of exposed stancion. Thanks for those that helped out.

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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

teK-- said:


> Coincidentally, I just contacted Roni seeking a recommendation for my setup. He suggested the same mod that you've already attempted.
> 
> I am 155Lb ready to ride, mostly downhill/enduro tracks, grade B amateur level (not super fast but not slow either).
> 
> ...


Just thought I'd post pics to show the parts I removed (circled in green). Note I'd already removed the ring and centre shim previously and so they aren't shown.

Reassembled pic below.

Haven't gone out for a ride yet will report back!


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

TamiJean said:


> Can anyone comment how much exposed stancion they have in a resting position? I was told the boost version came 150mm but I measured the exposed stancion and it was just around 6.25 inches. by comparison my outgoing fork has just under 6.5 inches at 160mm. I know fox usually has more exposed stancion than said on paper. I don't want to crack this open to find out there are no spacers to take out.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


My 29 Boost is set at 130 mm and i have 135 mm of exposed stanchions. 125 PSI and 9 OTT.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Doug said:


> The Diamond is tuned for aggressive riding. For some lighter and less aggressive rides less HSC is desirable. Flipping the piston is an easy way to reduce HSC and LSC. So it is smoother and doesn't spike in slow rough sections like rock gardens.
> 
> In your case out of the box it will probably feel perfect and be the best fork you've ever ridden.


I'm gunna say no, I'm gunna say it's over damped in HSC like most OEM products as a "safety mechanism" to prevent a 250lb guy from blowing it out, which makes it kind lackluster for the rest of us. I'm 170lbs and it was harsh and spiked a lot at speed, I'm "aggressive enough" to usually place in top 10 or 5, so I don't think that's my problem. The fork has a screwy compression tune most likely for the same reason every other OEM (not custom tuned) product does. I mean, are you saying that everyone cracking the fork open are not aggressive riders? I seriously doubt that is true.

At some point maybe they'll revise the stack so it will be a little better for most of the riders using it.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

davideb87 said:


> My 29 Boost is set at 130 mm and i have 135 mm of exposed stanchions. 125 PSI and 9 OTT.


Thanks! That seems to mirror how it is now with the spacer removed

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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Jayem said:


> I'm "aggressive enough" to usually place in top 10 or 5,


Internet racing or real life? Class 11 riders deep?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I'm gunna say no, I'm gunna say it's over damped in HSC like most OEM products as a "safety mechanism" to prevent a 250lb guy from blowing it out, which makes it kind lackluster for the rest of us. I'm 170lbs and it was harsh and spiked a lot at speed, I'm "aggressive enough" to usually place in top 10 or 5, so I don't think that's my problem. The fork has a screwy compression tune most likely for the same reason every other OEM (not custom tuned) product does. I mean, are you saying that everyone cracking the fork open are not aggressive riders? I seriously doubt that is true.
> 
> At some point maybe they'll revise the stack so it will be a little better for most of the riders using it.


Well they did at your request but you sold it before riding it. It would have been interesting (and more informative) to hear your opinion on the damper after the mods.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I'm gunna say no, I'm gunna say it's over damped in HSC like most OEM products as a "safety mechanism" to prevent a 250lb guy from blowing it out, which makes it kind lackluster for the rest of us. I'm 170lbs and it was harsh and spiked a lot at speed, I'm "aggressive enough" to usually place in top 10 or 5, so I don't think that's my problem. The fork has a screwy compression tune most likely for the same reason every other OEM (not custom tuned) product does. I mean, are you saying that everyone cracking the fork open are not aggressive riders? I seriously doubt that is true.
> 
> At some point maybe they'll revise the stack so it will be a little better for most of the riders using it.


I'm 190 geared up and not too aggressive. It felt great out of the box for me. I opened it up to get a smoother transition from LSC to HSC since the slow rough stuff is where it wasn't as smooth as I'd like. If I were 10-20 pounds heavier and rode more aggressively (like this he person who I replied to) or faster trails I would not have changed a thing.

They market to the tuners so one size fits all is definitely not their intention. It is easy enough to change, but it would be great to have a tuning kit with shims, piston, and recommended shim stacks.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rockman said:


> Well they did at your request but you sold it before riding it. It would have been interesting (and more informative) to hear your opinion on the damper after the mods.


Agree that it would have been interesting (but I changed wheel-sizes), but not really forgivable to sell something that is in such dire need of opening up and revalving right out of the box.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Doug said:


> I'm 190 geared up and not too aggressive. It felt great out of the box for me. I opened it up to get a smoother transition from LSC to HSC since the slow rough stuff is where it wasn't as smooth as I'd like. If I were 10-20 pounds heavier and rode more aggressively (like this he person who I replied to) or faster trails I would not have changed a thing.
> 
> They market to the tuners so one size fits all is definitely not their intention. It is easy enough to change, but it would be great to have a tuning kit with shims, piston, and recommended shim stacks.


I'm 190 geared as well and i find it really good out of the box. I found the sweet spot for me is running a lot of OTT, HSC all open, 3 LCS and pressure and rebound as written on the manual for my weight.
Running 2-3 HSC was too much damping.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> I'm 190 geared up and not too aggressive. It felt great out of the box for me. I opened it up to get a smoother transition from LSC to HSC since the slow rough stuff is where it wasn't as smooth as I'd like. If I were 10-20 pounds heavier and rode more aggressively (like this he person who I replied to) or faster trails I would not have changed a thing.
> 
> They market to the tuners so one size fits all is definitely not their intention. It is easy enough to change, but it would be great to have a tuning kit with shims, piston, and recommended shim stacks.


Agree with this wholeheartedly.

If they released a shim tuning guide like the excellent Manitou one then that would be great. And/or @ shims service pack that gives the various extra shims that might be needed for some tunes.

FWIW Roni at DVO came back to me over several emails with advice on a shim stack for my application. His speed of reply was impressive considering he is the MD and probably has 1000x other things to do every day. He might save himself many more such enquiries as his company grows, by putting together such a guide.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Techspec360 said:


> I've been toying with the idea of removing the preloader prior to seeing the updates on this post....but looks like others are going that route as well.
> 
> Most recently I have run the base valve stack with the preloader in a few configurations but I always keep feeling like the preloader is the culprit to the mid speed spikes. The HSC seems to be on par but that area between LSC and HSC is where I am not happy. So what I tried most recently was remove the ring and center shim, also the 19mm (shim that the preloader contacts) so that it was only preloading the 21 and 20mm. I then added the 15 as a crossover followed by the 17 and 16 . With this configuration I was able to dial the low-mid speed using the preloader (found 1.25 turns in was happy spot before too spikey in the rooty stuff. However, this configuration feels better than any of the other mods I have done so far. I feel way more low-mid speed support and can really push it hard through the rough but it still gets a touch upset on the 4-6" chop.
> 
> ...


Here's my feedback regarding the preloader removed mod. I did not like it at all, it was way to on/off feeling. Here's how I picture it in my mind: there was still a bit of low speed support and adjust-ability with the LSC needle but when transitioning to the base stack it lacked that additional low speed support that was originally provided by the ring shim and also the preloader. It blew through travel during mild weight shifts/pumping etc. And then when the velocity picked up it pinged more on high speed (probably due to the lack of LSC shim/preloader support and the additional shim I added). It got "pogo'y" feeling. I hated it so much I ended up cutting my lap short and heading back to the shed.

For the time being I went back to my previous mod (below) minus one of the upper shims just to see if I could take away some of the mid->high spiking. This one seems to do pretty well for average trails but could use a bit more LSC support on the really steep descents and hard braking. I didn't really notice any affect on high speed hits with this configuration, which confirms what some people had stated before, that much of the HSC damping happens in the mid valve on this fork.

___ 17
__ 15
_____ 20 (preloader contact) 
______ 21

Overall, I am leading towards there being a feeling of a gap between the LSC and HSC damping that I would like to smooth out which I refer to as mid-speed with obvious reasons. I will continue to play with different configurations and update.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> I'm gunna say no, I'm gunna say it's over damped in HSC like most OEM products as a "safety mechanism" to prevent a 250lb guy from blowing it out, which makes it kind lackluster for the rest of us. I'm 170lbs and it was harsh and spiked a lot at speed, I'm "aggressive enough" to usually place in top 10 or 5, so I don't think that's my problem. The fork has a screwy compression tune most likely for the same reason every other OEM (not custom tuned) product does. I mean, are you saying that everyone cracking the fork open are not aggressive riders? I seriously doubt that is true.
> 
> At some point maybe they'll revise the stack so it will be a little better for most of the riders using it.


It really depends on the rider. At 230 pounds, I softened the HS stack slightly to get a usable HS adjustment range for me, but I am old, slow and half broken. My 150 pound, Cat 2 DH racer son, finds the stock stack perfect, is running the recommended pressures, and still needs 4-5 clicks of HS.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I took a field trip to DVO today. Plan was to ride some trails up that way, but rain ruined that. Ronnie wasn't around, or was busy so I didn't get to talk to him. Bryson was there for a bit before heading out to an event. A quick summary:
-The DVO guys are great. Super helpful and friendly.
-I asked about a tuning kit and Bryson said it could be great for some, but likely a problem for more...which then makes it a problem for them when people mess up their fork.
-They prefer to keep tuning on a per rider basis. They try and assess your wrenching skills, riding, trails to determine what tuning steps to recommend. So anything you see here is customized for that person based on what they said. If you need help they will do the tune for you if you send it in or are local and can come by.
-they have tech days with consumers and they said they would host one in a month or two. They show how to work on shocks and give tuning tips. Watch FB for details if you are local.
-The onyx single crown is looking good, they hope to have it out soon.
-The Giant team gear is looking nice.

I'm looking forward to another trip up there for the tech day or maybe a demo ride and custom tune while I'm there. Try showing up at Fox or RS HQ and getting service like the best bike shop you've ever been to.


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## TamiJean (Dec 24, 2013)

Had the first couple of rides on the diamond boost and wow. I understand it could be a honeymoon period but I must say that I "feel" like this is what I have been searching for. Stupid sensitivity that my 36 and even lyrik never had, strong midstroke support and so far, no issues with compression spikes. I should say that I have this set up for a 220 pound rider. Haven't weighed myself in some time and hopefully will be able to sub 200 by my first real race of the season. Anyways the takeaway is that it's awesome. 

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Doug said:


> I took a field trip to DVO today....
> -The Giant team gear is looking nice.


Giant and DVO are publicly showing off the goods now:


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

My diamond should be here Wednesday!! So stoked and glad to be off my pike. And I’ve got a new topaz on the back. Now if I could only finish this damn basement remodel so I can ride!!


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## mtbpark (Feb 11, 2013)

*DVO Diamond 29er 140mm Noise*

I have non-boost 29er 140mm diamond. It has about 5 rides and I have noticed that started to developing rattling noise when I hit small bumps. Usually, it is worst beginning of ride and when temperature is lower than 50 degrees F. Anyone has experienced same issue? I googled and found someone posted about some noise when temperature is low but do not indicate any about how he resolved other than new forks arrived and works great. I have tried to contact with DVO rep. via email but so far I received just one email back from the rep asking what is my setting. so far it has been a couple of weeks since I provided my response. I have sent a several email back to him asking for a suggestions and etc... so far no response.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

This was a known problem with the very first forks - it was the valve Shims sticking to the face of the piston. I’d just speak to dvo direct n they will sort it


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## mtbpark (Feb 11, 2013)

dlocki said:


> This was a known problem with the very first forks - it was the valve Shims sticking to the face of the piston. I'd just speak to dvo direct n they will sort it


Thanks!!! I guess, will have to phone them instead of email.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I've found them not very responsive to emails. But they do answer the phone


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## stamion (Apr 17, 2014)

No luck by email for me either. Although Ronnie replied a couple of times he proposed i contact the local dealer to help me tune my stack, which i did but he was not so eager to help (no surprise since i bought he fork online). Anyway, maybe i ll give DVO a call. At 190lbs and about 118 psi(recommended 125-130 by DVO) i get 20% sag but i never get to use the last 2-3cm of travel probably because of the stack stiffness. I did a full damper rebuild/bleed plus lower leg service and put 35ml of bath oil in the damper side and 25ml in the spring side as per manual (although Ronnie suggests 15ml in the video posted on youtube). Did a ride and although the fork should feel super plush it spiked mid travel and i used even less travel. Could this be the effect of too much oil in the lowers?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

stamion said:


> No luck by email for me either. Although Ronnie replied a couple of times he proposed i contact the local dealer to help me tune my stack, which i did but he was not so eager to help (no surprise since i bought he fork online). Anyway, maybe i ll give DVO a call. At 190lbs and about 118 psi(recommended 125-130 by DVO) i get 20% sag but i never get to use the last 2-3cm of travel probably because of the stack stiffness. I did a full damper rebuild/bleed plus lower leg service and put 35ml of bath oil in the damper side and 25ml in the spring side as per manual (although Ronnie suggests 15ml in the video posted on youtube). Did a ride and although the fork should feel super plush it spiked mid travel and i used even less travel. Could this be the effect of too much oil in the lowers?


Sounds like my experience with the fork. Mid stroke spikes and using 80% travel max.

I tuned the shim stack per Ronnie's suggestions and posted a video a few pages back. It has felt great since.


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## stamion (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey Doug, i ve seen the video, great stuff. You end up with a linear stack which is easy to tune in terms of stiffness but lacks the support at low speeds. I also doubt that the 14 diameter shim is the clamp shim. Clamp shims need to be thicker than 0,15 mm , usually above 0,3mm in order to provide a solid column for the rest of the shims to bend. I believe that the shaft at 11 mm diameter acts as the column in this stack. I ve tried reducing the thickness of all the shims following the ring/center shim (to 0,1mm) but i cannot say i felt any difference. I know that altering the stack in a proven modification is the way to go but considering that i haven't altered anything on the stack during the service it is odd that i get more spikes now that the fork is properly lubed. That is why i am wondering if this could be the effect of excess oil in the lowers.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Rngspnr said:


> I've found them not very responsive to emails. But they do answer the phone


I think a few of them were in Taiwan last week. Might have something to do with it...?


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

So I finally got my Knolly Endorphin set up like I initially wanted. I haven't ridden since late January due to a big basement remodel. In that time I put a new DVO topaz shock and DVO Diamond fork on the Endo. I went out for a two hour shake down ride since I also put on a taller bend Spank spike vibracore bars.

I had a 2015 Pike RCT3 on before and I just couldn't get the damn thing to feel like I wanted. This DVO diamond is bad ass! The initial stroke is what I wanted out of my pike. So smooth it just ate up the small water bars and roots we have everywhere at my local spot. Unfortunately I couldn't really put it through its paces as the idiot who recently bleed my brakes neglected to clean the rotors and both the front and rear brakes had no modulation (that idiot is me). So I couldn't attack like I wanted. Probably the best comment I could make is that after adjusting the HSC twice I forgot the fork was there. It just really worked!


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

stamion said:


> No luck by email for me either. Although Ronnie replied a couple of times he proposed i contact the local dealer to help me tune my stack, which i did but he was not so eager to help (no surprise since i bought he fork online). Anyway, maybe i ll give DVO a call. At 190lbs and about 118 psi(recommended 125-130 by DVO) i get 20% sag but i never get to use the last 2-3cm of travel probably because of the stack stiffness. I did a full damper rebuild/bleed plus lower leg service and put 35ml of bath oil in the damper side and 25ml in the spring side as per manual (although Ronnie suggests 15ml in the video posted on youtube). Did a ride and although the fork should feel super plush it spiked mid travel and i used even less travel. Could this be the effect of too much oil in the lowers?


He does take a day or two to reply but I've always received one. Also I suspect due to the volume of emails he receives, he sometimes forgets the earlier emails in a longer exchange (since he doesn't read all the way back to the start each time). Therefore it is vital that you structure your emails carefully and clearly so they are easy for him to punch out answers. Also worth reiterating key points from earlier emails in case he has forgotten .


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Sent my DVO Diamond to them, paid for damper service. Had them change travel from 150 to 160 since it was free with service. I was not originally loving the new feel on my Canfield Riot. Then, I realized they set up all of my settings to their chart. Once I got rid of rebound damping, I am loving it again! I guess I need more support steering into chunky turns. I just dont use much rebound damping (been riding since 1974). 2 clicks of damping. I have been loving the Diamond for 6 months, now I am loving the 160 travel. Awesome! Those guys were great, and very fast once my fork arrived in their shop.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ronnie was in Taiwan and now at Sea Otter. They are hit and miss on email, but better in recent times. They always pick up the phone. They have also recently hired some new people as they were spread thin as things grow. Great products and super nice people. 


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> My non boost uses all the exposed stanction. Sounds like it is set up at 160mm. Take the air out and compress all the way to be sure how much travel it has.


I've just done that with my Diamond boost (which now I think has 150mm travel), and a not-so-small quantitative of oil spew out of the schrader valve when it reached full compression. 
At least 2cc.
I wonder if there was too much oil, otherwise how could it use full travel?
Anyone noticed the same?
Does your Diamond use full travel?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

If anyone is looking for a Diamond (no affiliation):
https://facebook.com/groups/641601269247623?view=permalink&id=1941735049234232


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## ESP2026 (May 27, 2018)

https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mtbmx2026/18533329.html


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## ESP2026 (May 27, 2018)

*Diamond Shim Stack*

ｍｙDVO Diamond Shim Stack　＆　Set up

https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mtbmx2026/18533329.html


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

I just finished my new bike build and I went with a Diamond Boost. With 3 rides on it so far (2x 7 ish miles, and one 22 mile) and my initial impressions are that it is crazy smooth and responsive in the small stuff, but it has a lot of trouble using all of it's travel. The last 30% is just impossible to touch, or it happens very rarely. Too rare in my opinion, especially for the SoCal chunk we have here. My first thought was I have too much air and that the chart on DVO's site is wrong. But I'm running 10psi under the lowest recommendation for my weight with fully open low/high compression just to test. Maybe I need to run lower psi?

Thanks for your video Doug. I think I might do the shim stack mod if I can't get it to behave how I want with lower air pressure. I'm 180lbs ish, and ride average speed, on chunky/rough stuff so maybe I'm not "aggressive" or heavy enough?


----------



## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> I just finished my new bike build and I went with a Diamond Boost. With 3 rides on it so far (2x 7 ish miles, and one 22 mile) and my initial impressions are that it is crazy smooth and responsive in the small stuff, but it has a lot of trouble using all of it's travel. The last 30% is just impossible to touch, or it happens very rarely. Too rare in my opinion, especially for the SoCal chunk we have here. My first thought was I have too much air and that the chart on DVO's site is wrong. But I'm running 10psi under the lowest recommendation for my weight with fully open low/high compression just to test. Maybe I need to run lower psi?
> 
> Thanks for your video Doug. I think I might do the shim stack mod if I can't get it to behave how I want with lower air pressure. I'm 180lbs ish, and ride average speed, on chunky/rough stuff so maybe I'm not "aggressive" or heavy enough?


Where do you ride? What bike? What PSI? I'm the same weight and also in SoCal. I just tweeked my air to 118PSI. Before I did the shim stack mod I never got more than 125 out of 150. Now I can nearly bottom out on some hard fast rides.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Just fixed my post above, looks like imgur image hosting doesn't work here. 

Patrol Carbon. I ride Santiago, Aliso, Laguna, Whiting Ranch/Luge (Live next to trail head), Snow Summit, etc. 

I am pretty much running the same air. 110-120 ish. Btw, I haven't done the shim stack mod, its stock at the moment. The fork was listed as 170mm on Worldwidecycelry, but the stanchions seem a little short and are more closer to 160mm. I'm curious if there's a spacer pre-installed...but that's another thing! 

I'm going to try much less pressure on this weekend's rides and I'll see. I'm also in the boat of preferring to use more travel vs running stiffer fork. I don't mind bottom outs as much as some.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> The fork was listed as 170mm on Worldwidecycelry, but the stanchions seem a little short and are more closer to 160mm. I'm curious if there's a spacer pre-installed...but that's another thing!


Remove all the air and compress the fork. Then air it up and check The travel used. Should be 170 but if not it should be 160/150 due to 10mm spacers.

The air cart may have excess oil that makes it very progressive. You can drain that a few ways and add back the 5-10ml they recommend to start. One way is to open up the leg and pull the cartridge. This is what you need to do when making a travel change. So if you have to adjust the travel, you'll be able to check this oil level at the same time. The other way is to remove the air and then pull the valve core. Turn the fork (bike?) upside down and let the oil drain out of the air chamber. Measure how much came out. Add back 5 or 10ml (check their docs to see what is recommended for the Boost). You may be able to use less, than their docs state. This oil lubes the piston in there, but also adds volume to make it more progressive as you add oil. These forks are hand assembled so it could be there is more oil than should be in there.

I would not go below 115psi. Otherwise it would be too willowy and lack support. Better to keep the air spring right for you and mod the shim stack.

When you set up your suspension, try these tips from Dougal:
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-setup

I followed that and my suspension feels great.


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## Mutombo (May 5, 2006)

Anybody had an issue with the OTT dial being able to turn in both directions endlessly? I was trying to tweak my OTT settings fresh off a service for the first time since my initial setup and there is no "stop" on either end of the OTT dial. I can turn it endlessly in both the CCW and CW directions.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

OTT

yikes !

it may have unscrewed from the springs.

you will need to take it apart for sure, but I cannot find details in the 
actual OTT bits as all diagrams show the enitre assembly with no details on how OTT
connects inside

try letting all air out of shock and compressing it down, and then see if you can get the OTT to grab the thing it needs to screw into....


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## Mutombo (May 5, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> OTT
> 
> yikes !
> 
> ...


I'll give that a shot. Thanks.

Edit: no luck getting it to re-engage with the air out of the fork. I've got an email out to DVO and to my mechanic to see if they have any ideas.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

krau said:


> I just finished my new bike build and I went with a Diamond Boost. With 3 rides on it so far (2x 7 ish miles, and one 22 mile) and my initial impressions are that it is crazy smooth and responsive in the small stuff, but it has a lot of trouble using all of it's travel. The last 30% is just impossible to touch, or it happens very rarely. Too rare in my opinion, especially for the SoCal chunk we have here. My first thought was I have too much air and that the chart on DVO's site is wrong. But I'm running 10psi under the lowest recommendation for my weight with fully open low/high compression just to test. Maybe I need to run lower psi?
> 
> Thanks for your video Doug. I think I might do the shim stack mod if I can't get it to behave how I want with lower air pressure. I'm 180lbs ish, and ride average speed, on chunky/rough stuff so maybe I'm not "aggressive" or heavy enough?


How heavy are you? You might need to modify the HSC shimstack if you are light or /or aren't agressive rider


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Hello,

I need some advice on my current settings to make sure I am going in the right direction.

Rider weight - 225lb with gear
Fork - Diamond Boost 29 set at 160mm

I have been running the following settings for awhile but still looking for more plushness and bottoming resistance.

123psi (lower than recommened but getting appropriate sag)
HSC 3 (from all the way open)
LSC 2
R 6 (from all the way closed)
OTT 11.5

The other day I tried increasing LSC and reducing HSC and I like it better.

123psi (lower than recommened but getting appropriate sag)
HSC 1 (from all the way open)
LSC 3
R 6 (from all the way closed)
OTT 11.5

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Ed


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^if you like it and aren't bottoming it, any setting is good

but hsc 1 at your weight, have you taking it off any sweet jumps yet ?


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

@Doug 

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to try 115psi and some local trails on Saturday and see where it lies. Then I'll start with the oil draining/refill, then shim stack mod if that doesn't work. Also, I have already done the travel check technique you described. Its around 162mm ish. Ronnie said it might be from the OTT pulling in the stanchion a bit. For now I'll stick with it and check the airspring spacer eventually. How do you go about removing the valve core btw? I'm not at home so I can't inspect it to see. One more thing...how many travel adjust spacers did yours come with? Assuming it's the boost 170mm one.

@tek
I'm 180-185 ish. I guess I'm not "that aggressive" enough for how it's tuned maybe? My last bike had a Fox 32 150mm on it and I blew through the travel pretty easily, as expected, on my go-to chunky/steep trails. I'll be trying the shimstack mod if the other quicker fixes don't work out


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> ^if you like it and aren't bottoming it, any setting is good
> 
> but hsc 1 at your weight, have you taking it off any sweet jumps yet ?


Thanks. No issues bottoming and I normally have about an inch of unused travel on most trails with smaller jumps and drops. I will continue to experiment on more aggressive trails.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

krau said:


> @Doug
> How do you go about removing the valve core btw?


Just use a regular schraeder valve tool to remove the core. Same as a tire.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Well the fork was a bit better with 115 psi, but it definitely needs more air for more support. Shim stack mod coming on up! 

@Doug would you recommend shim stack mod AND flipping that little green piece? Or just one at a time?


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

krau said:


> Well the fork was a bit better with 115 psi, but it definitely needs more air for more support. Shim stack mod coming on up!
> 
> @Doug would you recommend shim stack mod AND flipping that little green piece? Or just one at a time?


Try in this order which will give the firmest>softest ride. (Each mod is cumulative and assumes the ones listed before it have already been done)

1 Remove ring/centre shim
2 Remove 14/15mm shim
3 Remove HSC adjuster collar/accordian spring (this will disable the HSC adjuster dial)
4 Flip piston

if you don't want to open up the damper 4 times, I could recommend doing 1 and 2 at the same time, followed by 3, and finally if you still want it softer on fast impacts then flip the piston.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Cool, thanks for the info. Is it okay to keep the collar/accordian spring HSC adjuster but also flip the piston? Basically doing 1,2, and 4, keeping 3 to keep HSC adjustment? Just curious. Originally planning on doing 1 and 2 only.

Also, in Doug's video, he adds oil before inserting cartridge and after cartridge through that hole. Is this damper oil or lowers bath oil? I was looking at the chart from a DVO oil thread and I was going to pick up some Driven SHX damper oil since this is what DVO uses apparently.


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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

Do you guya have room for a 2.35 magic marry? Non boost


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

ttchad said:


> Do you guya have room for a 2.35 magic marry? Non boost


I had a 2.35 Nobby Nic and it was tight. The arch has scratches from rocks and other stuff that would get jammed in the tires. Magic Mary is similarly large for a 2.35 so I would say...possible but hardly ideal.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> Cool, thanks for the info. Is it okay to keep the collar/accordian spring HSC adjuster but also flip the piston? Basically doing 1,2, and 4, keeping 3 to keep HSC adjustment? Just curious. Originally planning on doing 1 and 2 only.
> 
> Also, in Doug's video, he adds oil before inserting cartridge and after cartridge through that hole. Is this damper oil or lowers bath oil? I was looking at the chart from a DVO oil thread and I was going to pick up some Driven SHX damper oil since this is what DVO uses apparently.


Ronnie recommended that I do 1 and 2. If that wasn't enough he suggested doing 4 as well. He never mentioned 3. I've done 4 (worked but Ronnie said not to do that, starves the HSC or something like that). I've since settled on 1 and 2 and it feels great. I still use it with HSC wide open most of the time.

The oil is damper oil. I use Motorex, but Driven SHX is as good or better. Check out the "unofficial DVO oil" thread in this forum for all kinds of details.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

If you are running anything close to a Stan's flow rims then no way. I have a stock niner rim (23mm internal) and a Hans dampf and it's too close to be honest. But the boost fork has a TON of room .


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Sounds good. I'm just going to do the shims, and call it. I'm sure it'll work great. 

Yeah I got the SHX oil from that thread. I just wanted to double check. 

To the guy above asking about a 2.35 tire, I ran a 2.5 Minion DHF on a non-boost older Fox 32 fork with an internal 30mm rim and it was fine. Put a $10 fender on there and it'll protect against rocks and you're good to go. Not the same fork so take it for what it is. Hope that helps!


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

krau said:


> Cool, thanks for the info. Is it okay to keep the collar/accordian spring HSC adjuster but also flip the piston? Basically doing 1,2, and 4, keeping 3 to keep HSC adjustment? Just curious. Originally planning on doing 1 and 2 only.
> 
> Also, in Doug's video, he adds oil before inserting cartridge and after cartridge through that hole. Is this damper oil or lowers bath oil? I was looking at the chart from a DVO oil thread and I was going to pick up some Driven SHX damper oil since this is what DVO uses apparently.


My understanding of flipping the piston is it allows more oil to flow into the HSC stack and/or allows more flow earlier on. By my logic I would want the HSC stack to have sufficient flow through it, to avoid spiking. I.e. You don't want more flow into the stack than the stack will allow.

The HSC adjuster acts as a preload on only part of the stack. Even with it set on 0 clicks there is still some preload. Removing the accordion spring and green collar therefore removes all preload.

This is why I think the piston flip should be last, unless you want to run some clicks on the HSC adjuster. In my case I ran 0 and wanted it plusher.

Just try experimenting! That is all we are doing since none of us have a dyno at home haha


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

terrible said:


> If you are running anything close to a Stan's flow rims then no way. I have a stock niner rim (23mm internal) and a Hans dampf and it's too close to be honest. But the boost fork has a TON of room .


Good point. My 2.35 NN was on a 19mm internal rim (Sun Ringle Black Flag Pro). Now I have 26mm i9 Enduro wheels and would work better. I'm currently running a 2.3" HRII and it has plenty of room. However, the non-boost was criticized for its lack of clearance. So its not a wide tire friendly fork. Its even worse if you try and use the fender. that rubbed all the time with my NN. It had too sharp a curve on the inside.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

teK-- said:


> Just try experimenting! That is all we are doing since none of us have a dyno at home haha


Will do! You know, regardless of this fork not necessarily bottoming out the way I expect, it is still ridiculously smooth/plush. Completely changed my view of how smooth a fork can be. It was sort of a shock my first ride...no pun


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## Mutombo (May 5, 2006)

Update to my post above: My OTT knob was broken. DVO sent me out a replacement knob and it took 2 minutes to replace and get everything working again. Props to DVO for the awesome customer service.


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## stevenEK9 (Jan 6, 2015)

for anyone interested in the UK/Europe I have a 160mm non boost diamond for sale.....

Black
Mint lowers
Brand new uppers with un-cut steerer
Fresh full service

Comes with axle and fender, only selling as going for a 170 fork

after 450 gbp ONO

get me on here or on +447729909466


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

Can anyone post the amount of oil that is suggested for lowers/damper/cartridge for the boost model? 
I am fairly frustrated combing over the website and videos that show 15cc In lowers then the PDF’s say 25cc for lowers, it’s all getting a little confusing.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

i put 25cc into the air side lower and 35cc damper side - fox 20wt gold

Cartridge takes about 90cc but is bled when you fit the compression assembly 

use motorex 2.5wt oil in the damper.

Ive just sold my diamonds 3 years of using standard then boost ones. gone back to fox 36's


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

dlocki said:


> i put 25cc into the air side lower and 35cc damper side - fox 20wt gold
> 
> Cartridge takes about 90cc but is bled when you fit the compression assembly
> 
> ...


Thanks, I ended up using Motorex 4wt, from the unofficial oil thread. Fork feels really nice.


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## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

Hi all, I have a non-boost Diamond set at 150mm and lately it has begun making a hissing sound on fast compressions. It also feels wicked harsh on high speed chatter. I am not sure if these phenomena are related, or if the latter is just a tuning problem: the fork is new to me and I only just got around to sending it down any really rough stuff. It feels great on jumps and drops--never bottoms out--but on smaller fast hits I feel like it's going to rattle my hands off the bars. OTT doesn't seem to make either issue any better or worse, it just makes the fork ride lower in its travel as I turn the sensitivity up. The fork can't have more than 10 hours of riding on it. Anyone ever experience anything like this? 

For reference I'm 150 lbs with gear and currently have pressure set at 100psi, HSC and LSC damping all the way out, rebound at 14 clicks out from full slow. I ride rocky, rooty, steep New England singletrack at mediocre speed.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^add more rebound damping should take some harshness off small fast hits

the sucking sound is likely normal...all forks 'squick' a bit when the damper is awoken for burly duty

OTT should completely erase real small stuff like magic marker sized roots and edges, and stuff that is just 'trail noise' but any bigger you'll start to feel some


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

ryetoast said:


> Hi all, I have a non-boost Diamond set at 150mm and lately it has begun making a hissing sound on fast compressions. It also feels wicked harsh on high speed chatter. I am not sure if these phenomena are related, or if the latter is just a tuning problem: the fork is new to me and I only just got around to sending it down any really rough stuff. It feels great on jumps and drops--never bottoms out--but on smaller fast hits I feel like it's going to rattle my hands off the bars. OTT doesn't seem to make either issue any better or worse, it just makes the fork ride lower in its travel as I turn the sensitivity up. The fork can't have more than 10 hours of riding on it. Anyone ever experience anything like this?
> 
> For reference I'm 150 lbs with gear and currently have pressure set at 100psi, HSC and LSC damping all the way out, rebound at 14 clicks out from full slow. I ride rocky, rooty, steep New England singletrack at mediocre speed.


I'm about same weight as you. You need to run as little OTT as possible (I run 0 turns with 107psi). I also had to modify the shimstack as it has too much damping and preload for someone my weight.


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## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

teK-- said:


> I'm about same weight as you. You need to run as little OTT as possible (I run 0 turns with 107psi). I also had to modify the shimstack as it has too much damping and preload for someone my weight.


Just found the shimstack mod video, good stuff. I might try that if a few more rides of rebound and OTT tinkering don't help. Do you mean you run zero turns from all the way CCW/-, or zero turns from all the way from CW/+? (OTT is neg air spring preload, so the "+sensitivity" is more preload and the "-sensitivity" is less....?)


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

ryetoast said:


> Just found the shimstack mod video, good stuff.


Link please.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Wind out fully CCW


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

I am having an issue getting the correct amount of Sag in this fork, my Fox 34 I never had this issue. When I measure Sag at reccomended settings I am only getting about 15% and this is with OTT all the way to most sensitive values. 

I am 185 with gear, running about 125psi, 1 hsc, 1 lsc and cant seem to get full 20% Sag. I have knocked Psi down to 110ish and still not full Sag. 

Fork feels amazing, no real complaints and I did just preform a full service and change of oil in dampers and legs.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Branmuffiin said:


> I am having an issue getting the correct amount of Sag in this fork, my Fox 34 I never had this issue. When I measure Sag at reccomended settings I am only getting about 15% and this is with OTT all the way to most sensitive values.
> 
> I am 185 with gear, running about 125psi, 1 hsc, 1 lsc and cant seem to get full 20% Sag. I have knocked Psi down to 110ish and still not full Sag.
> 
> Fork feels amazing, no real complaints and I did just preform a full service and change of oil in dampers and legs.


Sag is overrated. It helps 90% of riders get a decent setup. However once you start tuning to your bike, trails, riding, and fit it's far less useful. If the fork feels good and handles well that's it. At 15% sag your HTA will be a bit steeper which is a good thing most likely.

With OTT all the way out you may not be getting full extension on the fork. That can happen with lower psi in the fork. You may have a few more mm of extension hiding that will boost your sag value.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Doug said:


> Sag is overrated. It helps 90% of riders get a decent setup. However once you start tuning to your bike, trails, riding, and fit it's far less useful. If the fork feels good and handles well that's it. At 15% sag your HTA will be a bit steeper which is a good thing most likely.
> 
> With OTT all the way out you may not be getting full extension on the fork. That can happen with lower psi in the fork. You may have a few more mm of extension hiding that will boost your sag value.


I agree sag is overrated; it should be only a rough starting point.

The only part I'm not in agreement with (or maybe I am reading your post incorrectly), is that with less sag the head angle is actually slacker. As sag increases, the head angle steepens.

Also with the OTT, with the lower pressures all you can do is wind the dial all the way out (minimum OTT). If with it at 0 turns you still aren't able to get full extension then the negative spring is simply too firm but there is nothing else you can do. E.g. with 106psi and zero turns OTT I only have about 158mm stanchion showing above the seals.


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

It seems odd that the negative spring would be this firm, atleast firm enough to prevent proper Sag for a person my size (6ft 2, 185 w gear) as I am typically on the larger end of riders.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Branmuffiin said:


> It seems odd that the negative spring would be this firm, atleast firm enough to prevent proper Sag for a person my size (6ft 2, 185 w gear) as I am typically on the larger end of riders.


You said "OTT all the way to most sensitive values. " which means you have wound it fully clockwise (maximum OTT). Your fork would be sucked down in that case, which means less than full extension and less than true sag.

What Doug said.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

teK-- said:


> The only part I'm not in agreement with (or maybe I am reading your post incorrectly), is that with less sag the head angle is actually slacker. As sag increases, the head angle steepens.


Yes, we are saying the same. What I left out is steeper relative to what? In this case the 20% sag target.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

if anyone has dvo diamond 29 boost black or green for sale in good condition and sell please send me a pm!
sorry for the off topic!

Im back when I installed the dvo diamond


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Branmuffiin said:


> I am having an issue getting the correct amount of Sag in this fork, my Fox 34 I never had this issue. When I measure Sag at reccomended settings I am only getting about 15% and this is with OTT all the way to most sensitive values.
> 
> I am 185 with gear, running about 125psi, 1 hsc, 1 lsc and cant seem to get full 20% Sag. I have knocked Psi down to 110ish and still not full Sag.
> 
> Fork feels amazing, no real complaints and I did just preform a full service and change of oil in dampers and legs.


Ride the fork with the psi that feels best. I am 225lbs with gear and run 123psi.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Branmuffiin said:


> I am having an issue getting the correct amount of Sag in this fork, my Fox 34 I never had this issue. When I measure Sag at reccomended settings I am only getting about 15% and this is with OTT all the way to most sensitive values.
> 
> I am 185 with gear, running about 125psi, 1 hsc, 1 lsc and cant seem to get full 20% Sag. I have knocked Psi down to 110ish and still not full Sag.
> 
> Fork feels amazing, no real complaints and I did just preform a full service and change of oil in dampers and legs.


What I found with mine is to check sag without pushing ring down onto wiper after getting on bike. I found that when I pushed the ring onto wiper while I was on the bike I was getting lower sag values. Basically push ring down before getting on bike then get off bike gently you'll see that the sag will be pretty close to where you want it. I think because the Diamond has better mid stroke support it rides a bit higher in it's initial travel. I also just set the fork the way it feels best for me without really checking sag. I check how much travel I've used on a ride and set air pressure to leave maybe 8-10mm of travel for bigger hits.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Is anyone getting some stiction in their fork more often than you'd think you should? I'm usually pretty good about rebuilds and fluid changes but it seems like this for gets sticky pretty quick after a rebuild.

It was suggested to me at dirt fest this weekend that I try another brand's 0w30 for lower bath oil instead of the 7.5 golden spectro I've been using.

The suggestion came from a suspension tuner when I asked his opinion. 

Usually if I can remember to do it I'll flip my bike upside down to let the lower splash oil lay against the foam rings and against the bottom of the seals. I don't do this more than once a week or for more than a night. Just trying to keep everything lubed up to prevent the stickies. On my previous pike that seemed to help some.


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

terrible said:


> Is anyone getting some stiction in their fork more often than you'd think you should? I'm usually pretty good about rebuilds and fluid changes but it seems like this for gets sticky pretty quick after a rebuild.
> 
> It was suggested to me at dirt fest this weekend that I try another brand's 0w30 for lower bath oil instead of the 7.5 maxima I've been using.
> 
> ...


Doesn't DVO specifically state not to use Rockshox or Maxima oil as it will swell seals? I don't recall 100% if it's maxima or another brand, I can dig for the email from Ronnie. ( found the email, he said to avoid maxima and rockshox)

I bought my fork used and it was slightly sticky at the top, after I refreshed the damper and lowers with new oil it has been nice and buttery.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Don’t use maxima oil in dvo forks - they told me this from the start. Motorex 2.5 in the damper and fox 20wt in the lowers.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

The 3w rock shox does have seal swellers but, the 0w30 does not.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

DVO uses and recommends 7.5 Spectro in the lowers and air cartridge.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Ed_284 said:


> DVO uses and recommends 7.5 Spectro in the lowers and air cartridge.


Sorry, that's what I meant to say. Been using the golden spectro 7.5 since the first rebuild.

I was google'ing oil specs and crossed my wires


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## sjonny (Sep 14, 2016)

Does any one have a diamond's o-ring size list for rebuilding?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Is there any more info on a volume spacer for the air chamber on the diamond? I thought it was something in the works but seems to have dropped off. I lowered pressure to 117psi and the fork is nice and active but on log drops and anything over 2' at speed I'm bottoming pretty regular.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

terrible said:


> Is there any more info on a volume spacer for the air chamber on the diamond? I thought it was something in the works but seems to have dropped off. I lowered pressure to 117psi and the fork is nice and active but on log drops and anything over 2' at speed I'm bottoming pretty regular.


The only option that i'm aware of is adding oil to the cartridge through the valve. I'm sure it's been covered in this thread, I think that DVO recommends 5cc? It seems as though you should run higher pressure and crank in more OTT. If you're unhappy with performance from there you probably need a revalve.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

crimedog said:


> The only option that i'm aware of is adding oil to the cartridge through the valve. I'm sure it's been covered in this thread, I think that DVO recommends 5cc? It seems as though you should run higher pressure and crank in more OTT. If you're unhappy with performance from there you probably need a revalve.


The damping is great right now and I'd hate to mess up a good thing. I'd rather get some ramp up with an air chamber adjustment.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

May I ask if there is someone as light as me who has modified the damping? I own a Diamond boost set at 150mm and I'm 61kg naked.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Any one on here having issues with brake rub due to lower leg flex?
My Diamond will cause the rotor to rub after going through tech areas that create a lot of lateral stress. I have to stop loosen the through axle and try to reset the wheel. Pretty annoying. Just wondering if any body else is experiencing this and what was done to prevent it.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Rngspnr said:


> Any one on here having issues with brake rub due to lower leg flex?
> My Diamond will cause the rotor to rub after going through tech areas that create a lot of lateral stress. I have to stop loosen the through axle and try to reset the wheel. Pretty annoying. Just wondering if any body else is experiencing this and what was done to prevent it.


I experience this time to time and it is related to pistons moving in the caliper from flex.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/2-reasons-why-your-disc-brakes-dont-work.html

I have had the issue with RS Pike and Diamond. Issue is not any worse with the Diamond. You may want to make sure your axle is tight enough and make sure your rotor is true.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

That's not a fork issue, that's a hub/brake issue.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Rngspnr said:


> Any one on here having issues with brake rub due to lower leg flex?
> My Diamond will cause the rotor to rub after going through tech areas that create a lot of lateral stress. I have to stop loosen the through axle and try to reset the wheel. Pretty annoying. Just wondering if any body else is experiencing this and what was done to prevent it.


29er or 27.5? Boost or non boost? Hub brand? Hub conversion? End caps? 203 rotor warping from heat? Rotor model, brake model? Maybe you give us more details.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Guys, I haven't waded though this whole thread. All I would like to add is that I had a rental bike (for free) while the bike I ordered was en route. I was so blown away by the rental bike that I cancelled my order and bought the top model of the rental bike. The rental bike had a Diamond on it. Wow. Mind blowing. Life altering. Seriously. Coming off a Pike RS for 3 years, the Diamond was like, well, a diamond...a 10 carat diamond. The only gripe I had was with its aesthetics. Man, that shade of green is soooooo not me. Whatever. It was nothing short of awesome. And on a low spec'ed model. Wow.

PS - I spent 3 solid years fiddling with that Pike. I did not touch the Diamond. I took it as is (although the LBS said they fiddled with it for me before I arrived, although who knows). Unless I just got lucky, presumably I could have dialled that thing in way further than where it was. And where it was was absolute gold.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

hoolie said:


> 29er or 27.5? Boost or non boost? Hub brand? Hub conversion? End caps? 203 rotor warping from heat? Rotor model, brake model? Maybe you give us more details.


29 model, non boost, DT350, no conversion, standard caps, 180 ice tech rotor, M8000 brakes. no heat issue.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Rngspnr said:


> 29 model, non boost, DT350, no conversion, standard caps, 180 ice tech rotor, M8000 brakes. no heat issue.


Same fork, converted old school I9 hub, Hope M4's and 160 Hope rotors, no issues here.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Your brake caliper is bolted to your lowers. Your lowers are clamped onto the hub. Your lowers are not flexing, and if they were they'd be taking the hub/rotor with them. Perhaps you need to adjust the thru axle?
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/setup/diamond/wheel-axle-installation/


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

The wheel is shifting in the fork legs. I have the axle so tight I can barely get it open. Could be an issue with the end caps on the 350 hubs. They don't sit tight like my hope pro4's do. Very frustrating.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Rngspnr said:


> The wheel is shifting in the fork legs. I have the axle so tight I can barely get it open. Could be an issue with the end caps on the 350 hubs. They don't sit tight like my hope pro4's do. Very frustrating.


Those end caps suck. DT makes a tool to fit on them so you can hammer them in, if there's play in the end caps then the hub is going to slide on the axle. Tightening the axle won't help.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

crimedog said:


> Those end caps suck. DT makes a tool to fit on them so you can hammer them in, if there's play in the end caps then the hub is going to slide on the axle. Tightening the axle won't help.


Thanks I'll try snugging down the end caps.


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## tirrorex (Aug 4, 2018)

Hello,
looking for advices on 27.5 boost 170mm dvo diamond versus fox 36.

Long story short i need a fork for a new bike which will be enduro/dh oriented.
Haven't riden in a while but i like to throw gaps and go full-speed on stairs/rock gardens.

Will i notice any difference between the two forks? weighting 92kg at the moment.


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## Branmuffiin (Jan 25, 2018)

Diamond is a beast but if you are not trail riding and mostly looking for a SC DH fork, either go with the 36 or wait for the DVO Onyx SC that is shipping soon. I have heard heavier riders complain of flex in the diamond but I have not experienced it.


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## tirrorex (Aug 4, 2018)

Branmuffiin said:


> Diamond is a beast but if you are not trail riding and mostly looking for a SC DH fork, either go with the 36 or wait for the DVO Onyx SC that is shipping soon. I have heard heavier riders complain of flex in the diamond but I have not experienced it.


what do you mean by sc ?


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

tirrorex said:


> what do you mean by sc ?


Single crown


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It 'twas about a half a pound heavier than my '14 Pike, but I think a lot of that was due to the OTT and spring-assembly, inherently heavier than the simpler Pike. Even though I took both to the park and DHed with them, neither felt all that solid doing so. I'd definitely want more fork (170lbs) for park stuff and gnarly DHs. I think the Lyrik/36 are in a slightly heavier class that is better suited to that kind of riding. Remember, it's not just torsional flex, but fore-aft that causes binding. Of course, all the fore-aft in the world doesn't help if the torsion isn't great, like the various inverted forks I've owned. I'd say the Diamond is "beefy enough" for a "light Enduro" fork and I wouldn't tell anyone not to get it, but you will know if you ride your bike harder than the average rider and take it down all the same DH runs as the guys on DH bikes. It may not be enough for that.


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## tirrorex (Aug 4, 2018)

Jayem said:


> It 'twas about a half a pound heavier than my '14 Pike, but I think a lot of that was due to the OTT and spring-assembly, inherently heavier than the simpler Pike. Even though I took both to the park and DHed with them, neither felt all that solid doing so. I'd definitely want more fork (170lbs) for park stuff and gnarly DHs. I think the Lyrik/36 are in a slightly heavier class that is better suited to that kind of riding. Remember, it's not just torsional flex, but fore-aft that causes binding. Of course, all the fore-aft in the world doesn't help if the torsion isn't great, like the various inverted forks I've owned. I'd say the Diamond is "beefy enough" for a "light Enduro" fork and I wouldn't tell anyone not to get it, but you will know if you ride your bike harder than the average rider and take it down all the same DH runs as the guys on DH bikes. It may not be enough for that.


You lost me at binding and fore-aft mate.

Thanks for the advices guys, while i will in fact do a bit of trail-riding, i will also definitly go pure dh on my future fork  hope 170mm of travel will be enough, but i guess that if the pro can do it so should i, cheers.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

tirrorex said:


> You lost me at binding and fore-aft mate.


Very long forks, like 150mm 29er forks, will see significant fore-aft flex unless extreme measures are taken to prevent it. This is one big reason we use 1.5 steerers these days and why bigger stanchions are used. People tend to think the axle makes a fork stiff, but IMO a 20mm vs 15mm axle is almost meaningless, the stanchions, crown, steerer, etc., have a lot more to do with the overall stiffness of the fork. The fore-aft flex is the difference between the fork binding a little and helping you pitch you over the bars, vs. going into the travel and absorbing the bumps.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Did a lower service, damper bleed and air cartridge re lube tonight. My fork gets a regular workout. I ride like I'm mad at my bikes and tend to bottom even at a little higher presure (I'm 185# geared up and running 122-124psi)

It's surprising to me how much of a maintenance hog these forks are. It doesn't bother me since I love to tinker almost as much as I love to ride. And after a month or two of riding the difference in break-away at top out is amazing after some new juice. 

After 200-225 miles does anyone else get darker lower oil out of the air side of the lower? I figure it's from the slick honey mixing with the 7.5 spectro oil but just wondering.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

bostik said:


> May I ask if there is someone as light as me who has modified the damping? I own a Diamond boost set at 150mm and I'm 61kg naked.


I've just tried the piston flip mod, with the rest unchanged. Only one ride so far, but good overall impression.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> I've just tried the piston flip mod, with the rest unchanged. Only one ride so far, but good overall impression.


DVO doesn't advise the piston flip alone. Ronnie said shim stack mod, then piston flip if that isn't enough.

Just the piston flip will choke the damper under some circumstances. I don't remember exactly when/how...rebound? Low speed compression? HSC?


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> DVO doesn't advise the piston flip alone. Ronnie said shim stack mod, then piston flip if that isn't enough.
> 
> Just the piston flip will choke the damper under some circumstances. I don't remember exactly when/how...rebound? Low speed compression? HSC?


I know that they don't advise it. I just want to try, considering that it seems that even people which weighs many kilos more than me are struggling with too much compression damping.

Low speed compression seems fine, from full open to closed the difference is 
noticeable.
High speed compression: I've ridden it full open and I think it's where I'll have to change setting. 
I hope this won't have a side effect on rebound as...
...I think that the rebound could be the problem they mentioned, as the piston flip means that its smallest holes are now used during rebound. A compare with the holes of the actual rebound piston could give a clue.
Actually I've turned the rebound full open, while before it was 8 click from full open (and now I've also some more psi), and it doesn't seem too fast: I've got to put more rides in to be sure it isn't too slow.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I have been riding this Diamond Non boost fork for a year now. Its awesome. But I may be in the sweet spot at 180 pounds (195-200 lb ready to ride weight). After sending in for damper service, DVO did a specific knob setup for me. It was a fail, and I went back to my normal personal settings. I use Almost all of the OTT, and no rebound damping. I found that the way I corner, I need alot of support in cornering. When I tried their setup, with more damping, I got too much fork dive, similiar to FOX CTD forks that I hated. I like this fork as much as my previous PIKE. DVO is legit for sure. I like the Pike, and I liked the Lyrik that I demo'd for 2 days in Seattle on a Rocky Mtn Slayer. As this last year of riding passed by, I tend to think I may buy another Diamond Fork on next build. After being on FOX for 15 years, and switching to Pikes for the last 4, that is a great job DVO did entering a pretty mature market. My next step would be to have a custom damper such as Avalanche.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

As Jayhem noted, I dont like the extra 1/2 pound vs PIKE/FOX. Tough competitors for sure. I also would like to test an MRP fork, but i never see any around.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Hello, Yesterday i tried to remove the compression damper but my 22 mm socket was spinning.
Should the socket engage the nut from the bottom? Mine stayed higher maybe because i needed a thinner wall socket.
What do you use?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

davideb87 said:


> Hello, Yesterday i tried to remove the compression damper but my 22 mm socket was spinning.
> Should the socket engage the nut from the bottom? Mine stayed higher maybe because i needed a thinner wall socket.
> What do you use?


Yes, you need a thin walled socket.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

If anyone knows where to get a 22mm thin walled socket, I'm all ears. I don't have space for a grinder otherwise I would get one and grind a few home Depot $2 ones down for others. 

A little update after riding the fork for a few months now:

I was going to do the shim stack mod, but I've had really good luck running slightly lower than recommended pressure from the weight/pressure chart. I'm running around 105-110, and I weight around 185. I decided to lower pressure to adjust bottom out resistance like the DVO guys talk about, which is how you treat these forks because of the lack of token system and the negative spring adjuster. Turns out my bottom out resistance/sag pressure needed is lower than their charts. When you hear those guys talk about adjusting the pressure, they say to do it for your bottom out and sag. I'd be curious what pressure people would be running if we took that tip, and never saw the recommended pressure chart...makes me think their chart is way off maybe? 

Fork is working insanely smooth. From SoCal techy chunky stuff to bike park jumps. I'm running no HSC (so far), 2 LSC for decends, 6 for climbs, max OTT, and I'm not sure about rebond, but it's much less (faster) than their recommended starting points. I found that this fork isn't violent or kicky like my fox was when the rebound is quicker so you can get away with faster.

I rarely bottom out or use more than 80% travel, usually only on small trail hucks and jumps into really chunky stuff on the landings. When I do, I don't notice or feel it, which tells me running this slightly lower pressure is working for me. I just notice the o ring at the end of the run or section of trail.

Hope that helps!!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> If anyone knows where to get a 22mm thin walled socket, I'm all ears. I don't have space for a grinder otherwise I would get one and grind a few home Depot $2 ones down for others.
> 
> A little update after riding the fork for a few months now:
> 
> ...


I am about the same weight and ride here in SoCal as well. El Prieto and the occasional trip to skypark. I run 118PSI now with the shimmstack mod and an angleset that slacked it out a bit. I can't imagine it getting any better. Similar settings as you. No HSC and adjust LSC based on terrain. Nearly all OTT and Rebound is also pretty fast.

I found that lower pressure made it too divey and too slow a natural frequency. Now with 118 it suooorts corners better and the shim stack mod makes it use travel as I would hope for.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Yeah I plan to up it a bit closer to 120 next and see how it behaves. I'm happy with how it soaks up the chunk, so I'll deal with a little more dive. It stays mid travel in the corners so far which is fine. I don't really notice it that much to be honest. Not sure what El Prieto is, but I rode the Luge last night and it was great in the corners. Skypark is another story, I turn up the LSC, and put more air in. Their trails are so insanely smooth up there and it's like a giant groomed pumptrack hahaha! Say hi if you see me up there, I'm on a blue patrol carbon and I'm there quite often


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> Not sure what El Prieto is, but I rode the Luge last night and it was great in the corners. Skypark is another story, I turn up the LSC, and put more air in. Their trails are so insanely smooth up there and it's like a giant groomed pumptrack hahaha! Say hi if you see me up there, I'm on a blue patrol carbon and I'm there quite often


El Prieto is by JPL/Rose bowl in the Mount Wilson area. It's a great ~1 hour loop or a great last downhill if you shuttle Mount Wilson. Lots of switchbacks and shaded dirt trail that is a bit more East Coast than most around here. It's one that DVO uses to tune their stuff.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hey all, 

I recently sent my Diamond to DVO for some warranty work. While they had it apart I asked if it would be possible to tune it to offer a bit more traction and plushness in the beginning of the stroke. They suggested doing a piston flip, and I decided to try it. After reading some replies here though, it sounds like a re-shim would have been a better idea. 

Regardless, for those who flipped their damper pistons, what adjustments did you have to make to your setup? From what I understand, it increases the usable range on the HSC/LSC adjusters and also affects rebound dampening, though feel free to correct me if that's not quite right. 

Thanks.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Phoenix864 said:


> They suggested doing a piston flip


Interesting that they've suggested the piston flip. It seems that before they weren't reccomending it, do they changed their mind?



Phoenix864 said:


> Regardless, for those who flipped their damper pistons, what adjustments did you have to make to your setup? From what I understand, it increases the usable range on the HSC/LSC adjusters and also affects rebound dampening, though feel free to correct me if that's not quite right.


May I ask what's your weight?
I'm 61kg and as I wrote in post #817, the fork seems nice even with all controls open. 
I've put 5 psi more as before I was trying to compensate too much damping with less air pressure.
I've ridden it only two times, nothing too challenging, so I'll need more rides to get to the right settings.
I think I'll end in cranking some rebound (but *less* than before the mod), and also some HSC (I've got 29 clicks to use...).


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Today i made the shim stack mod + piston flip. Let's see how it goes!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> Interesting that they've suggested the piston flip. It seems that before they weren't reccomending it, do they changed their mind?


It may be based on weight. With higher air pressure (spring rate) the rebound speeds increase at a given setting. I believe Ronnie said the rebound circuit could choke with just the piston flip. It seems reasonable with my (dangerously limited) understanding of how these work that the issues with just a piston flip would be exacerbated with higher air pressures.

They do recommend it, but only with/after trying the shim stack mod first. So its not a "don't" but more of a "not your best first step".


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

I weigh in the mid 150s with no gear, about 162-168lb with gear. I found the fork with the stock piston setup to be rather stiff, even when running air pressure on the low side and OTT on the high side of what DVO recommended for my weight. 

I called DVO up today and asked what the piston flip does to the dampening. As I understand it, they said that it allows oil to pass through the shim stack faster, allowing the HSC to be utilized sooner. The interesting thing is that the person I spoke with said that the flip should only affect HSC. I find this rather unusual as I would think less LSC, not HSC, would make the fork plusher in the beginning of its travel. 

As far as choking the rebound, would that come from the extra oil coming through after the flip? Seems a little counter intuitive, but definitely possible. 

The other possibility to this whole issue is that when DVO talked to me about the piston flip they also did the shim stack mod with it, as that seems to have been their recommendation in the past. I would find it rather unusual if they went against their own past advice for my rather normal case.


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

I got a Diamond 2017 150mm Boost 29er (from Chainreactioncycles) about a month ago and have ridden it about 10 times since. Straight out of the box the OTT was knocking, but has since quieted down. 

Now, though, there is some pretty heavy bushing play. Grap the front brake and wiggle the bike -> clunky sound and movement between the sliders and lowers. Grap the crown and the arch on the lowers and wiggle-> clunky sound and movement. Same for full and 50% extension. I just issued a warranty request to CRC, we'll see how that plays out. 

It was a great fork though, shame about this issue. At my weight (95kg ready to ride) the damping adjustment range is spot on, at least for my riding style.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Toni L said:


> I got a Diamond 2017 150mm Boost 29er (from Chainreactioncycles) about a month ago and have ridden it about 10 times since. Straight out of the box the OTT was knocking, but has since quieted down.
> 
> Now, though, there is some pretty heavy bushing play. Grap the front brake and wiggle the bike -> clunky sound and movement between the sliders and lowers. Grap the crown and the arch on the lowers and wiggle-> clunky sound and movement. Same for full and 50% extension. I just issued a warranty request to CRC, we'll see how that plays out.
> 
> It was a great fork though, shame about this issue. At my weight (95kg ready to ride) the damping adjustment range is spot on, at least for my riding style.


Yep - every pair I've had were the same straight out of the box. Deal straight with the importers and it will get fixed quicker - good luck if your in the uk as the importers are crap and carry zero spares. I waited 6 weeks for a set of lowers and the replacement set were worse than the first pair to be then told another 6 weeks wait. This is the main reason I sold up and went back to fox


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

I bought a set of DVOs to then have travel reduced and service guy showed me the cracked spring guide for the neg spring OTT. 
Ronnie kindly sent me one out asap from USA of course.
This might explain the clunk noise as the guide is like heatwrap to a Fox coil springed fork to keep it from rubbing away the inner of stantion tube.

I’ve still yet to get riding on mine due to waiting 3 months on a boost adaptor kit.

If I had to deal with crc regarding warranty, I would personally be talking to my cc co to reverse the payment if any foul play on crc’s part as crc are fairly aweful to deal with as I found out the other day.
They give it all that over phone then try to sell you something that should have come with the item. They had a chance to resolve a simple issue so in the end I called him a dumb irish **** and that I shall discuss directly with DVO themselves.

May seem harsh language but at that time I rang, I were being shifted from pillar to post via a couple of staff. Then fobbed off repeatedly so BAM! I’d swing for that potato stealing gypo if it weren’t for the fact he aint worth diddly ****. That and fact I’d have to travel to a shithole of a place to give him a slap.

I really sincerely hope crc reads thus and learns nect time to deal appropriately in CS as it lacked every drop of it.

Anyway I cannot wait much longer to ride the green wave of comfort. :-D


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Any advice on how to unthread the Black ring on the bottom of the air cartridge on the Diamond Boost?
I was going to do the air side service but there is no way to loosen it, It seems stuck...

Inviato dal mio PULP 4G utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

davideb87 said:


> Any advice on how to unthread the Black ring on the bottom of the air cartridge on the Diamond Boost?
> I was going to do the air side service but there is no way to loosen it, It seems stuck...
> 
> Inviato dal mio PULP 4G utilizzando Tapatalk


You need to hold the green inner part with a pair of snapring pliers while loosening the black lock ring. If not the whole assembly turns in place. On DVO's Youtube video Ronnie makes it look like it should just break free and come off but it doesn't. I had to do this for a travel change on a friends fork. The non boost version is different. You may also need to heat that ring to break it free it might have thread lock on it. I can't recall.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Rngspnr said:


> You need to hold the green inner part with a pair of snapring pliers while loosening the black lock ring. If not the whole assembly turns in place. On DVO's Youtube video Ronnie makes it look like it should just break free and come off but it doesn't. I had to do this for a travel change on a friends fork. The non boost version is different. You may also need to heat that ring to break it free it might have thread lock on it. I can't recall.


Much appreciated, thanks.
Yeah i was working following that video...

Inviato dal mio PULP 4G utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

You're welcome. Good luck!


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

The trick is to break that black nut loose before you let the air out. Don't take it off but just enough to get it to back off of the upper.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

terrible said:


> The trick is to break that black nut loose before you let the air out. Don't take it off but just enough to get it to back off of the upper.


Still using pliers + hex wrench?

Inviato dal mio PULP 4G utilizzando Tapatalk


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

No, I use a vice opened enough to grab the large black nut then spin the large upaper part of the cartridge. If you clean the cartridge with alcohol you can hrab it bare handed. There is no need for pliers or snap ring pliers. 

That nut is just there to stabilize the green cap. The snap ring inside the cartridge is what hold the green cap.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

And I agree with the above. Watch the dvo videos and it'll be much easier.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

Anybody wanna give me a little input on how to set up a 140mm Sapphire? It took me a bit of time to dial in my Mattoc, and this fork seems to have some big differences. Hard to get a baseline, aside from what's in the manual (which it seems like is never anywhere near what I eventually end up with).

I'm 190lbs ready to ride. I run about about 45-50psi in the Mattoc, with the rebound and high speed comp at full fast. Clearly I like it squishy.

I started with the DVO at around 60-70psi, and quickly realized that this fork is waaaay more squishy than anything else I've felt at that pressure. Was surprised to find that the manual indicates 110+. And the knobs have _so many clicks_, LOL.

Between this and the DBcoil, I'm gonna be tweaking this stuff FOREVER...


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

DVO's suggested settings are generally quite good so start there. Generally when setting up suspension you go spring, rebound, and then dial in compression and OTT. Knock off that full open business. More spring pressure means you need more rebound to slow it down, otherwise you lose traction.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

If the 'full open business' irks you, don't go in the Mattoc thread! There's quite a lot of us running those forks with stupid-low pressures and most of the dials at or near the minimum. It works for that fork.

I did a little testing tonight and ended up at about 95psi with like 8-9 turns of OTT. Of which my fork only seems to have about 10; not the advertised 14. Rebound ten clicks from closed, compression dials at 1 or 2 clicks in. Still feels plenty supportive and not overly fast. We'll see what happens.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

I don't know how the Mattoc is valved so it may be appropriate there. With the Diamond and most other suspension it certainly is not. Air pressure depends on the size of the chamber so it's hard to compare that. Usually when people run too low of an air pressure they are compensating for poor valving and trying to soften perceived harshness and then they have to throw in air spacers to try to control bottom out - not a good situation.

I weigh about 175lbs and I'm putting 115psi in my Diamond and running rebound 11 clicks from closed (out of 20). If I speed my rebound up by 1-2 clicks I can feel the loss of traction almost immediately. I'm only running 6 turns of OTT but I am playing with it right now. Since the OTT is preloading a (real) spring it will get harder to turn when you have pressure in the air chamber. If you want more, or just to verify, try without air in the fork.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^yeah OTT it is best to turn that knob after bumping out some air. turning it when aired up could be notchy and feel wrong


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

I went for a long ride today, and the fork felt great...from, like, a racer standpoint. Very composed, not _super_ harsh. But definitely a rude awakening for me. I did not manage to bottom it...clearly there is some serious ramp in those last 10-20mm.

I went ahead and lowered the pressure down to around 80 and removed some OTT to not make it feel too squishy in the early stroke. We'll see what happens.

Seems like this fork may just have too much compression damping. I was really having trouble in big chunk...instead of fully sucking up a big boulder, then instantly springing back to get the next one, I felt like I was just bouncing off of rocks. Not too slow or too fast rebound, more just too much resistance to compression. The fact that the factory manual indicated 1-2 clicks of compression for all rider weights is a bit telling...seems like they need a higher-flowing piston or softer shim stack, no?


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

phuchmileif said:


> I went for a long ride today, and the fork felt great...from, like, a racer standpoint. Very composed, not _super_ harsh. But definitely a rude awakening for me. I did not manage to bottom it...clearly there is some serious ramp in those last 10-20mm.
> 
> I went ahead and lowered the pressure down to around 80 and removed some OTT to not make it feel too squishy in the early stroke. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Seems like this fork may just have too much compression damping. I was really having trouble in big chunk...instead of fully sucking up a big boulder, then instantly springing back to get the next one, I felt like I was just bouncing off of rocks. Not too slow or too fast rebound, more just too much resistance to compression. The fact that the factory manual indicated 1-2 clicks of compression for all rider weights is a bit telling...seems like they need a higher-flowing piston or softer shim stack, no?


What about midvalve?


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

I'm unsure of the question? I know what a midvalve is, but I don't fully grasp the concept of why you do or do not want it.

It seems like with all forks I've used, it's a struggle to get enough rebound without getting an unwanted rise in compression damping. In this regard, the DVO seems like it is better than most. As I said earlier, I run my Mattoc with the damping turned way down, which hasn't really caused me any issues. But I would probably run more rebound if I felt it didn't compromise my high speed compression.

On another note, what's the feeling on stiction with the DVO's? My Sapphire seems like it is quite sticky off the top. I haven't been through this whole thread, so I don't know if people are changing anything to improve this on the Diamond (or Sapphire). This is definitely an area where the Manitou totally slaughters the competition; it was never bad, but after an upgrade to their newer low-friction seals, the thing glides absurdly well.

Those seals are straight from Manitou, so I don't know if there is an identical aftermarket part. I'd figure Dougal probably would've told us if there was. Also have no idea if said seals would work on a Diamond. Obviously the Sapphire needs something totally different, which I'll probably look into when I service the fork. That will be sooner rather than later, as I've learned not to trust factory assembly (thanks, lube-miser Rockshox).


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

A couple of the dvo forks I've seen really get a lot of help after the first couple rides and a lower service. Seems like they just don't put enough slick honey on the wipers. And I soak the foam rings in a baggy full of the spektro lower oil before putting them in.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

I've found DVO's assembly to be excellent and my Diamond and Topaz were super slick out of the box so I'm surprised to hear that.

Typically when you close a rebound adjuster you are moving up a needle, closing the LSR orifice. Not sure why you think this would change the compression damping characteristics on your Sapphire.

I don't know about the Sapphire but the Diamond definitely has a HSC stack that does what you described. They are tuned for racers but if you're going to pick a base tune that's a good one IMO. If you give them a call after getting comfortable with the fork they will likely offer you suggestions on re-shimming it (if you want to get in there) or offer to tune it for you while servicing the fork.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

tirrorex said:


> Hello,
> looking for advices on 27.5 boost 170mm dvo diamond versus fox 36.
> 
> Long story short i need a fork for a new bike which will be enduro/dh oriented.
> ...


There will be an new manitou fork in a few months with 27. 5 size up to 180mm of travel and 37mm stanchions and in 29 at least with 170mm.i think this thing will be worth a look, too, considering how good the mattoc is with hydraulic bottom out and irt air spring. But they did not tell a release date yet.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

crimedog said:


> Typically when you close a rebound adjuster you are moving up a needle, closing the LSR orifice. Not sure why you think this would change the compression damping characteristics on your Sapphire.


As I'm sure I've stated: I have a basic grasp of this stuff; better than your average joe. But I'm definitely not 100% on the theory behind everything, especially when it comes to how the rebound and compression assemblies interact. It would seem that fluid flow HAS to go through both, right?

All I can really vouch for is feel. Forks feel stiffer when I turn the rebound up. Not just less 'poppy,' but stiffer in a way that makes me feel small objects more. The front of the bike seems to rise more over a small obstacles, rather than compressing. I assumed this had to be due to some relationship between closing the rebound orifice and slowing down the flow of oil through the compression orifice and/or shim stack.

The DVO is less sensitive to it than my Mattoc. I also feel it a lot on my hardtail's MoCo fork, and it even seemed to be a thing on my Pike's Charger- which is surprising, given it was the the RC, aka 'mostly rigid fork,' aka 'orifice Pike,' since the compression shim stack was essentially useless.

BTW, I tried counting the OTT turns with the air spring empty: I'm still getting 10-11, with the last turn being very stiff and there DEFINITELY being no more after that. I'm not worried, since it seems to be working fine and 10+ turns of OTT would just be too much, anyhow. I think I'm on 9 right now, with 90-95psi. The fork sucks down and loses a fit of initial travel...unweighted, it's probably more like a 130 than the advertised 140 right now, and obviously I'm somewhat deep in the sag. But it is riding great, with decent small bump (for a short travel trail fork) and good enough support.

I'm to the point where if I wash out of a turn or otherwise lose control...it's my fault, not the fork's. If I bottom it...it's my fault, not the fork's. Only have had one hard bottom, which was into a steep, tricky V-shaped dip, probably five feet tall or so. Just can't expect a short travel fork to take all of my body weight weight being plowed into the front wheel at speed.

I'm curious as to what these forks use for a bottom-out bumper, and if they can handle the occasional thump? I'm not a fan of running a fork so stiff as to eliminate the possibility of bottom-out, which would essentially rob me of a lot of my travel on flowier trails.

I'm also not sure if all the visible stanchion is actually usable, though the 140 advertised travel would seem to indicate that it is. Even after I was pretty sure I had bottomed, the indicator ring was ~10mm from the top.

Overall this is a solid little fork, for damn sure. If anyone's building a 130-140 bike, I would highly recommend considering the Sapphire over a travel-reduced Diamond. The skinny stanchions are an absolute non-issue, and I'm honestly confused by the coming 32mm to 34mm change that has been announced. I suspect it is all marketing, and the actual stiffness will be relatively unchanged.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Rebound flow is totally separate from compression, there are two valves with check shims.

Did you get this setup guide with your fork?
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DVO-SET-UP-GUIDE_fork.pdf

Just for the record they recommend the following for 190lbs:
115-125psi
6-8 turns in OTT
6-12 clicks out rebound
3-5 clicks in HSC

I'm not saying that you should land exactly there but their recommendations are generally very good. If you're "out of range" it's probably a good idea to think about why. There's also some great general info about how the fork works.


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## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

I did not get that! Just the regular manual, which has a basic setup table. That's a very nice little guide.

I just don't buy into the concept that you need the same pressure for the same weight on all bikes in all scenarios. Lower pressure with more damping means more bump absorption with more control. If I can run 90-100 instead of 110-120, I don't see the downside. I don't see how more pressure with the damping backed off to 'smooth out' out the ride isn't counterproductive to handling.

It's the flip-side of manufacturers saying to run LESS pressure and then crank up the LSC to prevent dive...seems like a bandaid for a bad base spring pressure, either way...


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Generally when people run too low of a pressure it's because they are compensating for a lack of small bump compliance (see pike threads or people with fox air piston tolerance issues).

There's a reason every guide you see on setting up suspension has you set the spring rate first. The less sophisticated guides tell you to do it by sag and the more sophisticated ones like Dougal's: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-setup will have you do it by feel. That said, what sag do you end up at? I'm guessing it's pretty high.

Springs support your weight, damping slows down the compression/rebound. Yes, there are a range of spring rates that work. If you are running a higher one you'll need less damping and if you run less you'll need more. One is not better than the other, it depends on how/what you ride and the conditions. It's about balancing out the system. If you're not properly supported you'll be too deep into the stroke most of the time and you'll be bottoming out. If running a proper air pressure means that your fork is too harsh for you then you should talk with DVO about modifying the shim stack.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

I love my DVO!


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Anyone have an issue with Air Side Foot Nut coming apart? The foot nut would not torque down after oil change. I thought the female fitting inside the lowers was not seating. Eventually the foot nut came apart. I am really disappointed, as I liked this design better than crush washers on Rockshox/Fox. But I assumed the footnut was one piece. Damn. As it was spinning, it chamfered the fork lowers. I am concerned that a new Foot nut will not seal now. I will post back up after a new Foot nut arrives. Calling DVO tomorrow morning. What a bummer, I had tomorrow off.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I've had mine apart at least four times and no issues. If you call DVO they'll send you out a new one. I just called because when doing a full service on mine I noticed a cracked OTT spring guide they just sent me a new one. I don't think the chamfering should be a problem because the cartridge seats into the base of the lower leg that's why you have to use a dead blow hammer to get the cartridge loose.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

This was my 3rd oil change at home, plus they did full damper service/oil 60 hours before this. I agree with you on interior of fork, no problem. But as it turns out, these air side foot nuts are 4 or more pieces, and not bonded perfectly. I just posted this to make sure I am the exception, hopefully a new Footnut will seat properly on outside. Bottom of fork bottom is a bit scratched up, I may need to sand it smooth for seal, and follow up with 600 grit.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi all,

I've been dialing in my Diamond and have been having a difficult time getting full travel off the largest drops I do (3-4ft). DVO recommended flipping the piston and massively changing the dampening relative to what was normally recommend for my weight (170lb-ish geared). 

Lately I've been running 100ish PSI, 3 turns OTT, 1 click HSC, 1 click LSC, and 10 clicks rebound. The fork has felt good overall, if a bit soft in the beginning and midstroke. I've recently been wondering if going back to more air, OTT, and dampening might lead to a more composed fork. 

What settings have others in my weight range been running? I find it rather unusual that I needed to deviate so far from the recommended settings in order to use full travel. 

Thanks.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

How much travel is fork set to?


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

hoolie said:


> How much travel is fork set to?


Currently running at 140mm.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

DVO sent me a Foot Nut from another new fork, as they are backordered a few weeks. These guys take care of their customers. I am very happy with their customer service. Will post in a few days after I install new one. Running fork with a band aid solution now (works, but a time bomb). DVO takes caremof people for sure. Their product is great for me, maybe not for everyone, but they DO care. Good on them!


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Wow! 140 travel and you cant bottom it? Maybe eat more pies! J/k. My Pike 140 on another bike is lackluster after using this DVO diamond for a year (150-160 rides). Diamond is set at 160 travel. I still like the PIKE ok. Maybe you drop a tad more PSI. You are probably at the point where 1 or 2 or 3 psi is going to make or break you? Other tuning opinions will help. Have fun experimenting!


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Phoenix864 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been dialing in my Diamond and have been having a difficult time getting full travel off the largest drops I do (3-4ft). DVO recommended flipping the piston and massively changing the dampening relative to what was normally recommend for my weight (170lb-ish geared).
> 
> ...


Definitely run the proper pressure because you'll gain a lot more than you'll lose. Bottoming out just isn't that important. How much travel are you using, anyway? For guys like us the compression damping is too much, they are building these things for some serious riding. Did you talk with Ronnie and he suggested those mods? They had me remove the ring shim and the top shim off the stack and it's a lot more easy going.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

crimedog said:


> Definitely run the proper pressure because you'll gain a lot more than you'll lose. Bottoming out just isn't that important. How much travel are you using, anyway? For guys like us the compression damping is too much, they are building these things for some serious riding. Did you talk with Ronnie and he suggested those mods? They had me remove the ring shim and the top shim off the stack and it's a lot more easy going.


I'm using about about 80-90% travel on the biggest hits I take with my current settings. Previously, when using more OTT and pressure I was only getting 70-80%.

Actually, I sent the fork in for some warranty work and asked while the fork was apart what could be done to make it softer. They recommended both the piston flip and the settings I'm currently using.

I plan to try increasing OTT from 3 to 7 turns and increasing pressure from 100 to 120psi. Hopefully the fork will still be plush in the first few mm of travel, while firming up to a more linear curve later on.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

*Reply to post #833, above ⬆*

Wow! Just WOW! Remind me to Throw a potato at your ass if I see you on the trail! Just Kidding, I think that was a funny post. Reminds me of the Singlespeed forum, funniest forum on MTBR.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

*SPRING Guide*



Rngspnr said:


> I've had mine apart at least four times and no issues. If you call DVO they'll send you out a new one. I just called because when doing a full service on mine I noticed a cracked OTT spring guide they just sent me a new one. I don't think the chamfering should be a problem because the cartridge seats into the base of the lower leg that's why you have to use a dead blow hammer to get the cartridge loose.


How important is it to replace a cracked spring guide as it's only a thin plastic surround to neg coil that is like shrink wrap on coil springs to prevent inner leg rubbing so I believe...?


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this topic since I've been riding my diamond for a couple months now. I originally came to this thread wanting to know why I'm not using full travel when I expect to, and how shim stack mods worked.

I didn't end up modding it, and instead went a little lower pressure than the air pressure chart on their website says. Fork is great now. I rarely fully bottom it out, and when I do it's usually on larger jumps without smooth transitions or Huck to flat-rough stuff.

I just noticed last week that DVO put a new PDF guide to download for the 2019 Giant owners. It has a completely different air chart recommendation, for the same fork (Diamond). Their original chart puts me at 125-130 psi, where the new chart in the Giant manual for the same Diamond recommends 110-120 psi which is what I've found to work better. 110 is super plush, but a bit divey. 115 is perfect, with LSC at 3.

I would take a look at this manual:
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf

And see of those numbers work before modding your fork. Never hurts to try.

Also, another curious thought, the older air pressure guide on DVO's site came out originally for the non boost diamond, or it was there before the boost 170 version came out. I have the boost. Which is 170mm max, not 160. One could assume they're using a different air chamber setup maybe and that air pressure guide wouldn't technically work correctly for newer "boost generation" forks? Just a thought. Maybe we have been using an outdated air pressure chart that was intended for a shorter travel fork's air chamber.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Tinstigator said:


> How important is it to replace a cracked spring guide as it's only a thin plastic surround to neg coil that is like shrink wrap on coil springs to prevent inner leg rubbing so I believe...?


I don't think it's that important the only issue is the OTT spring will be noisy on compressions.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Rngspnr said:


> I don't think it's that important the only issue is the OTT spring will be noisy on compressions.


I'm going to have to look at mine now. Getting a little mechanical noise on g-outs and big hits.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

First ride yesterday after replacing mine. Fork is quiet now.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Just a heads up. I had an issue with my air piston at about 120 hours. $16 replacement and all is great again. DVO recommends replacing Air piston and damper service every 100 hours (evry 50 for oil / wipers). I pushed it too far, obviously. It WAS a crazy summer of riding big Mountains, and I hammered my bike the last few months.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I was talking to DVO about tuning and service today. I was told that if the bladder is at all compressed it will make the fork feel awful. It is too progressive and won't use all the travel. 

Before you do a shim stack mod or piston flip, check the bladder for any compression. It should be round and a long oval shape. if it is dimpled or compressed then remove the clips that hold in in place, and peel back the edge to let air in. 

See the video I posted a few months ago for an example of a compressed bladder. You can see it compressed in the beginning of the video and I fix it so at the end it looks correct.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Doug said:


> I was talking to DVO about tuning and service today. I was told that if the bladder is at all compressed it will make the fork feel awful. It is too progressive and won't use all the travel.
> 
> Before you do a shim stack mod or piston flip, check the bladder for any compression. It should be round and a long oval shape. if it is dimpled or compressed then remove the clips that hold in in place, and peel back the edge to let air in.
> 
> See the video I posted a few months ago for an example of a compressed bladder. You can see it compressed in the beginning of the video and I fix it so at the end it looks correct.


Good info, thanks. When I did mine I put a smear of waterproof grease on the bladder contact points. Since it took me a while to find, here's your video at the point showing the compressed bladder:


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

Toni L said:


> I got a Diamond 2017 150mm Boost 29er (from Chainreactioncycles) about a month ago and have ridden it about 10 times since. Straight out of the box the OTT was knocking, but has since quieted down.
> 
> Now, though, there is some pretty heavy bushing play. Grap the front brake and wiggle the bike -> clunky sound and movement between the sliders and lowers. Grap the crown and the arch on the lowers and wiggle-> clunky sound and movement. Same for full and 50% extension. I just issued a warranty request to CRC, we'll see how that plays out.
> 
> It was a great fork though, shame about this issue. At my weight (95kg ready to ride) the damping adjustment range is spot on, at least for my riding style.


Updating this story:

I got the fork back some time ago. It wasn't a slam dunk on CRC's side but thats another story. The things they reported that a DVO service center (I don't know which) fixed were new seal kit, new air piston kit and the OTT spring guide. Not exactly sure how that helped with the play in the lowers but the play is almost gone now and there's no more clunky sound.

I'm seriously impressed how good the fork is now that I got it dialled. 95kg ready to ride, I pretty much went with DVO's recommended base settings and just added about 10cc of oil to the air chamber to increase ramp up.


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## Ed_284 (Nov 28, 2017)

Great to hear! I love my Diamond. A big mistake I made with mine was not following their PSI recommendations for my weight (102kg/225lb) but a DVO employee was able to set me straight with a solid base tune. I feel finding the right PSI is the most important thing to getting this fork dialed.

I struggled for many months by increasing LSC (2 or 3), HSC, and even adding oil to the chamber while running 125psi. With the correct PSI (140psi) I am able to run the LSC at 1 and HSC at 5. Small bump compliance is awesome along with great bottoming resistance. Another mistake I made was initially running too much OTT. I initially went with max setting of 12 and now running 8. Too much OTT and LSC 1 are a bad combo.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

FYI anyone interested in a diamond. Jenson USA is having a sale of 20% off any one full price item. It knocks almost 200$ off a diamond.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Anyone here know what part of the damper shaft to sand, to stop clunking sound on rebound action? I am actually looking for the link, to find proper info on this modification. Thanks. I am still loving my DVO Diamond, after 200 rides. Its holding up well, but it did start to make a bit of a clunk sound, upon rebounding, if I hit "shoe box" sized rocks. Thanks. EDIT: 11/27/18 problem was determined to be $6 spring guide.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

hoolie said:


> Anyone here know what part of the damper shaft to sand, to stop clunking sound on rebound action? I am actually looking for the link, to find proper info on this modification. Thanks. I am still loving my DVO Diamond, after 200 rides. Its holding up well, but it did start to make a bit of a clunk sound, upon rebounding, if I hit "shoe box" sized rocks. Thanks.


Sounds like it might be the OTT spring. Have you done a service on the fork? I called DVO when mine started making noise and they said to do an air side service. The fork will also make noise if the spring guide is broken.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Yeah, service every 50 hours. I pulled OTT spring out 5 days ago and regreased it, hoping it would solve the issue. Still there. I can almost ignore it, but not quite. I found a Different MTBR thread, "DVO Diamond Clunk", has the info I think I need. Anyone else have this done, or did it themselves? Results? This is 2017 Diamond Non Boost, with about 200 rides. So it seems that Ronnie Dilan (DVO tech) mentioned that this happens "after some use". It did not happen until about 2 weeks ago. EDIT: 11/27/2018 problem was actually $6 OTT spring guide. Replaced.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Does anyone know about how much stanchion should be exposed per travel length? My supposedly 140mm Diamond is showing about 150mm of stanchion, even with high OTT settings (10 turns, 125psi). 

Thanks.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Phoenix864 said:


> Does anyone know about how much stanchion should be exposed per travel length? My supposedly 140mm Diamond is showing about 150mm of stanchion, even with high OTT settings (10 turns, 125psi).
> 
> Thanks.


1 cm more than the actual travel.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

hoolie said:


> Yeah, service every 50 hours. I pulled OTT spring out 5 days ago and regreased it, hoping it would solve the issue. Still there. I can almost ignore it, but not quite. I found a Different MTBR thread, "DVO Diamond Clunk", has the info I think I need. Anyone else have this done, or did it themselves? Results? This is 2017 Diamond Non Boost, with about 200 rides. So it seems that Ronnie Dilan (DVO tech) mentioned that this happens "after some use". It did not happen until about 2 weeks ago. EDIT: 11/27/2018 problem was actually $6 OTT spring guide. Replaced.


Where can i buy this spring guide online?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Phoenix864 said:


> Does anyone know about how much stanchion should be exposed per travel length? My supposedly 140mm Diamond is showing about 150mm of stanchion, even with high OTT settings (10 turns, 125psi).
> 
> Thanks.


My fork at 140 reads 143mm.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

davideb87 said:


> Where can i buy this spring guide online?


Contact DVO. It's not listed on the website but is available separately.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Rngspnr said:


> Contact DVO. It's not listed on the website but is available separately.


Thanks


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Welcome. They might warranty it for you. They did mine.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

davideb87 said:


> 1 cm more than the actual travel.





Rngspnr said:


> My fork at 140 reads 143mm.


Interesting, seems like it varies a bit. Either way, it sounds like I have a 140mm fork. Thanks for the info.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Could anyone tell me the inside diameter of the air cartridge?
I want to try a system to reduce the progressiveness of my Diamond, something like this:
ABS FORK - Adventure into the unknown with 'trouble-free' cycling solutions I Deaneasy 
or this:
Neopos - Formula
But I don't know if they'll fit
Thanks in advance


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

If you want to reduce the progressiveness then the easiest way is to alter the valving in the cartridge.


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## Shortyesquire (Jun 8, 2007)

bostik said:


> Could anyone tell me the inside diameter of the air cartridge?
> I want to try a system to reduce the progressiveness of my Diamond, something like this:
> ABS FORK - Adventure into the unknown with â€˜trouble-freeâ€ cycling solutions I Deaneasy
> or this:
> ...


Look up the SD components DVC. It's a dual chamber system similar to the Manitou IRT.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

dlocki said:


> If you want to reduce the progressiveness then the easiest way is to alter the valving in the cartridge.


thanks for your reply, but I don't understand how to alter the valving, could you explain?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> Could anyone tell me the inside diameter of the air cartridge?
> I want to try a system to reduce the progressiveness of my Diamond, something like this:
> ABS FORK - Adventure into the unknown with 'trouble-free' cycling solutions I Deaneasy
> or this:
> ...


We he first seems like a whole lot of buzzwords and not anything to back it up.

The second shows a chart with no data on the axis and minimal difference in the curve.

You can make the diamond more linear with less oil in the air cartridge. It comes with 10-15 cc in there. Remove the air, take out the valve core, turn bike upside down to drain, and then depending on how much was in there add back less...but at least the minimum needed for lubrication (5cc?).


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Shortyesquire said:


> Look up the SD components DVC. It's a dual chamber system similar to the Manitou IRT.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Thanks, I didn't know the DVC, I see that it's similar to the AWK. 
But, as the AWK, I don't see a DVO version, only RS and FOX, isn't it?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

dlocki said:


> If you want to reduce the progressiveness then the easiest way is to alter the valving in the cartridge.


Well, no.

That's not even a little true. Progressiveness has nothing to do with the dampening, and everything to do with the air spring.

You can get more support if that's what you mean.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

FastBanana said:


> Well, no.
> 
> That's not even a little true. Progressiveness has nothing to do with the dampening, and everything to do with the air spring.


thanks, your reply helped me to understand the dlocki's suggestion.
As you said now I'm interested only in the air cartridge behavior.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> You can make the diamond more linear with less oil in the air cartridge. It comes with 10-15 cc in there. Remove the air, take out the valve core, turn bike upside down to drain, and then depending on how much was in there add back less...but at least the minimum needed for lubrication (5cc?).


yes, you're right that it's better if I check the oil quantity before trying other things.
And thanks for the suggestion, I didn't thought to remove the valve core, I'll try this, way easier than dismounting the whole cartridge.



Doug said:


> We he first seems like a whole lot of buzzwords and not anything to back it up.
> 
> The second shows a chart with no data on the axis and minimal difference in the curve.


Well, I'm skeptical too, and I know, those charts and explanations are a call for a shitstorm.

But a friend of mine has mounted the first I've mentioned, on his Lyric, and the fork seems really more linear.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> Well, no.
> 
> That's not even a little true. Progressiveness has nothing to do with the dampening, and everything to do with the air spring.
> 
> You can get more support if that's what you mean.


"Progressive" can apply to both the spring (air or coil) and the damping system.

In this case "Less Progressive" can be either. I'm not sure what ride characteristic the OP wants to change. There isn't much that can be done on the air side. A shim stack tune can make the fork less progressive, linear, digressive. That isn't easy without a dyne and extensive knowledge of shim stacks. Fortunately DVO has both and a call to them is the next step in this case.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> "Progressive" can apply to both the spring (air or coil) and the damping system.
> 
> In this case "Less Progressive" can be either. I'm not sure what ride characteristic the OP wants to change. There isn't much that can be done on the air side. A shim stack tune can make the fork less progressive, linear, digressive. That isn't easy without a dyne and extensive knowledge of shim stacks. Fortunately DVO has both and a call to them is the next step in this case.


I confirm I'm interested in the air cartridge only. 
I think the DVO could be penalized by a smaller air chamber, due to the fact that it uses a cartridge inside the stanchion, instead of having the chamber inside the stanchion itself.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> I confirm I'm interested in the air cartridge only.


Can I ask why? What is you don't like about the fork? What do you ride and how aggressively?

Sorry, I work in IT and prefer to find out what the root issues are. Often there is a better, chapter, easier solution that may not have been considered.

I wanted mine to ramp up less and use more travel. Ronnie told me how to tune the shim stack to get what I wanted and it was pretty amazing how right he was. Not that hard to do either. It can seem daunting to open the damper, but once you do it you realize its pretty easy (and also essential to regular maintenance).


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Doug said:


> "Progressive" can apply to both the spring (air or coil) and the damping system.
> 
> In this case "Less Progressive" can be either. I'm not sure what ride characteristic the OP wants to change. There isn't much that can be done on the air side. A shim stack tune can make the fork less progressive, linear, digressive. That isn't easy without a dyne and extensive knowledge of shim stacks. Fortunately DVO has both and a call to them is the next step in this case.


Again, no.

Dampners cannot be position sensitive or specific. What you are referring to is speed sensitivity.

Basically, deep in the travel, the dampner behaves the same way as the top of the travel.

Check out Vorsprungs tuesday tune series, it explains how this works. Suspension fundamentals are key to understand before you start messing with everything.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

bostik said:


> I confirm I'm interested in the air cartridge only.
> I think the DVO could be penalized by a smaller air chamber, due to the fact that it uses a cartridge inside the stanchion, instead of having the chamber inside the stanchion itself.


You're looking for more progression right?

Bottom line, add some of the golden spectro fluid to the inside of the air spring to reduce the volume. Start with 5cc.

You can do this through the air valve, just remove the core.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> Can I ask why? What is you don't like about the fork? What do you ride and how aggressively?
> 
> Sorry, I work in IT and prefer to find out what the root issues are. Often there is a better, chapter, easier solution that may not have been considered.
> 
> I wanted mine to ramp up less and use more travel. Ronnie told me how to tune the shim stack to get what I wanted and it was pretty amazing how right he was. Not that hard to do either. It can seem daunting to open the damper, but once you do it you realize its pretty easy (and also essential to regular maintenance).


You're welcome, software dev here 

I'm 60kg naked, I'm not an aggressive rider, I prefer steep and rough trails (but pretty slow, with my limited skills), only small drops, small jumps.
At 90psi, the fork seems right in the first 2/3 of travel, both sensitivity and mid travel 'support'. I've tried 80psi, still seems acceptable, maybe too much diving under braking.
But at either pressures I'm struggling to use more than 110 mm of travel. Currently my Diamond boost is set at 150mm, but I want to try 160.

I've also started to play with the damper side, but I've noticed a thing that lead me to think that the air side is simply too much progressive: with the damper assembly removed, if I jump with all my weight on the handlebar, I can't compress the fork more than 105-110mm. And I'm really putting all my weight and strength in it.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

FastBanana said:


> You're looking for more progression right?
> 
> Bottom line, add some of the golden spectro fluid to the inside of the air spring to reduce the volume. Start with 5cc.
> 
> ...


no sorry, *less* progression. 
I'll remove the valve core and try to put the minimum quantity of oil inside.
Motorex 2.5w won't suit?

If, again, someone knows the inside diameter of the air cartridge, I may make an estimate of the minimum quantity of oil to cover the air piston.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

bostik said:


> no sorry, *less* progression.
> I'll remove the valve core and try to put the minimum quantity of oil inside.
> Motorex 2.5w won't suit?
> 
> If, again, someone knows the inside diameter of the air cartridge, I may make an estimate of the minimum quantity of oil to cover the air piston.


It only has the minimum from the factory.

Your issue sounds kinda bizarre to me, honestly.

With no dampner, and the appropriate spring rate, you should be able to get 75% bouncing in the parking lot.

However, not using all travel on an average ride is ok, depending on your style and you. There's no right answer for suspension setup.

On an average ride, I only use 75% travel. I only use the last bit in DH parks when I case something, or hit a rock going warp speed.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> Again, no.
> 
> Dampners cannot be position sensitive or specific. What you are referring to is speed sensitivity.
> 
> ...


Dampers can be progressive (or linear or digressive) as the force increases and affects shaft speed.

Practically speaking this affects the harshness feeling along with spring rate progression.








source: http://tech.dvosuspension.com/digressive-vs-progressive-damping/


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> You're welcome, software dev here
> 
> I'm 60kg naked, I'm not an aggressive rider, I prefer steep and rough trails (but pretty slow, with my limited skills), only small drops, small jumps.
> At 90psi, the fork seems right in the first 2/3 of travel, both sensitivity and mid travel 'support'. I've tried 80psi, still seems acceptable, maybe too much diving under braking.
> ...


Those forks are tuned for bigger, faster, more aggressive riders. I rode the same trails that they tune them on. Bryson Jr. rides one section in 2:40 and it takes me 3:45 at least. The longer technical section I'm 12minutes and he is 8 or under. The base tune is not right for you (or me).

Jumping on your fork with all your weight is actually not much force. Even with the damper in place you should not be able to bottom out your fork under your own weight and power. Riding forces are much higher. Hit a series of rocks at 20mph and you will generate more force and go deeper into the travel (depending on rebound settings). It is probably several times your body weight in forces hitting the damper.

Call Ronnie, he may suggest the same tune I did (video posted here).


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## Shortyesquire (Jun 8, 2007)

bostik said:


> Thanks, I didn't know the DVC, I see that it's similar to the AWK.
> But, as the AWK, I don't see a DVO version, only RS and FOX, isn't it?


Definitely a DVO version. I've got two of them. https://www.mountainbikesdirect.com.au/sd-components-dynamic-volume-chamber

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> It only has the minimum from the factory.
> 
> Your issue sounds kinda bizarre to me, honestly.
> 
> ...


The oil they come with is variable. I've read of some that were nearly dry, others 20-30ml or more.

He is getting 73% with no damper (110mm/150mm) so that is about right.

Using 100% travel is over rated and probably a sign of a bad tune/setup. You have 150mm of travel so you can use 130mm really well and 20mm for those moments of poor judgement.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

I want to thank you all for your comments, Doug, FastBanana and Shortyesquire.

You helped me to reason and I did some calculations and some tests (no outdoor test because of a bad flu).

I've verified that my air cartridge has a minumun of oil, so this is right for me.

The DVC system and those ABS fork tune and Neopos are not right for my use case. My calculations confirmed me that those systems are intended to substitute fork tokens, so if I add them I'll get more progressivness, not less.

The only system which could really reduce progressivness is a spring kit, not available for the Diamond.

Regarding the damper side, I may say that for now I've changed the stock oil with Motorex 2.5W and I've done the piston flip (thanks for the video guide, Doug). I may also remove the ring/centre shim and the 14-15mm shims next.ause

But what I've found is that lowering the pressure from 90psi to 80psi seems to really make a big difference. That (useless) test (jumping on the handlebar) gives me 135mm instead of 110. I didn't expect so much difference, it seems that under 90psi every psi will be very sensitive.

Actually I'm using 90psi because, from the DVO website:

Air Pressure Range: 90-170psi

so, 90psi seems already low for my 60kg naked.
But as you said "those forks are tuned for bigger, faster, more aggressive riders". If, as I hope, I'll become faster, some more psi will be a quick fix.

Actually the table seems a little strange. There are linear weight range, 20lbs each one, but pressure ranges are 10-10-15-5-5-5-5psi wide:

Rider Weight Air Pressure
120-139lbs | 54-63kg	90-100psi
140-159lbs | 64-72kg	100-110psi
160-179lbs | 73-81kg	110-125psi
180-199lbs | 82-90kg	125-130psi
200-219lbs | 91-100kg	130-135psi
220-239lbs | 100-108kg	135-140psi
[cut]

So I think that I'll do more tests, lowering the pressure under 90psi.
I'll keep you updated.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

bostik said:


> But what I've found is that lowering the pressure from 90psi to 80psi seems to really make a big difference. That (useless) test (jumping on the handlebar) gives me 135mm instead of 110. I didn't expect so much difference, it seems that under 90psi every psi will be very sensitive.
> 
> Actually I'm using 90psi because, from the DVO website:
> 
> ...


Keep in mind as you reduce your fork spring rate you will want to reduce your rear shock spring rate as well. Otherwise you get a see-saw effect where they are not balanced. What I do is this, per Dougal's great advice found on his SHockCraft site:

-open up the dampers all the way.
-gear up to riding weight
-go find a parking lot or other flat open space
-ride slowly and bounce up and down. Add air if the bike feels wallowy. Remove air if the bike feels too springy. This is hard to describe. But as he says, your in brain accelerometer will let you know when it feels right. There is also a range that will feel OK and your riding terrain, skill, and speed will dictate any tuning needed. 
-then video yourself riding in a straight line and compressing the bike by pushing through the pedals to make it as balanced as possible. The front and rear end should rise and fall equally. 120 or 240 fps video and frame by frame analysis really helps. 
-tune the Front and rear air pressure to get the spring rates such that your bike is balanced front and rear.

Getting spring rate right is priority #1. Everything comes after that. Sag can help get you close, but its not nearly the tuning tool that they make it out to be (They know it will get you close and 90% of riders are happy with that).

Then once you get spring rate dialed, find a rocky section of trail and ride that over and over. Tune rebound so it feels good and not harsh. Too harsh? Faster rebound to not pack up the suspension. Bike hard to control and stay on your line? Too fast rebound.

Once I did this my Diamond/Topaz felt even better and some fast sketchy stuff was so much easier I actually thought people had groomed the trail.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

To the people who have done the shimstack mod, did you take the same ones out that Doug did in his video? I wasn't sure if there was a specific setup for my weight.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> To the people who have done the shimstack mod, did you take the same ones out that Doug did in his video? I wasn't sure if there was a specific setup for my weight.


What is your weight?

If you are very light and/or ride mellow trails or not very aggressive/fast then the piston flip is a good second step to take along with the shim stack mods.


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

I'm 190, but I'm not riding mellow trails. Not insanely aggressive, just average I guess. I'm wanting to experiment and go back to my idea of the shim stack mod. I though running lower pressure would solve it, but I think I want to try another solution. Run high pressure for more support/less dive.

It just feels off. I'd rather start with just shim, and not flip the piston yet. Whats your weight? Was the mod you did specific to your weight?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

krau said:


> I'm 190, but I'm not riding mellow trails. Not insanely aggressive, just average I guess. I'm wanting to experiment and go back to my idea of the shim stack mod. I though running lower pressure would solve it, but I think I want to try another solution. Run high pressure for more support/less dive.
> 
> It just feels off. I'd rather start with just shim, and not flip the piston yet. Whats your weight? Was the mod you did specific to your weight?


I am 180 and 190-195 on bike. Shim stack tuning isn't very weight dependent. It adjusts how much force it takes to allow various shaft speeds via oil flow. So a 150lb rider at 30mph can generate more force than a 200lb rider doing 10mpg on the same trail and much more force if the lighter rider is in rougher trails.

Spring rate is far more about rider weight. You should use abiut the same air pressure on any terrain. Damper adjustments are how yuh tune to terrain. It's temptong to use air pressure but that's likely only going to solve one problem and introduce several more.

In your case the shim stack mod sounds right. It was suggested based on my profile: 190lbs, average agressiveness and speed, above average rough terrain. Good for people like me or faster lighter riders.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Doug said:


> I am 180 and 190-195 on bike. Shim stack tuning isn't very weight dependent. It adjusts how much force it takes to allow various shaft speeds via oil flow. So a 150lb rider at 30mph can generate more force than a 200lb rider doing 10mpg on the same trail and much more force if the lighter rider is in rougher trails.
> 
> Spring rate is far more about rider weight. You should use abiut the same air pressure on any terrain. Damper adjustments are how yuh tune to terrain. It's temptong to use air pressure but that's likely only going to solve one problem and introduce several more.
> 
> In your case the shim stack mod sounds right. It was suggested based on my profile: 190lbs, average agressiveness and speed, above average rough terrain. Good for people like me or faster lighter riders.


Shim stack tunes are very much weight dependent, in your example the faster/lighter rider would be producing a HIGE amount more damping, but it's pushing against a lighter mass, so that is a factor. Trail speed/aggressiveness does offset the tuning a bit but rider weight is the overriding factor


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## krau (Jan 18, 2018)

Yeah I tried to see how far I could go with just messing with air pressure but it's time to give in. Not sure if you remember but I posted months ago in this thread about this, but now I'm back to eat my words  doing some oil and seal maintenance so I might as well do the shim mod while the fork is getting worked on anyway.

I originally asked about weight because you mention in your YouTube video's description that Ronnie gave you a shim stack setting based on your weight. If it is indeed that dependent on weight, maybe I'll shoot them an email and ask if I should use a different setting.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug said:


> A full service is pretty easy. Most annoying part is the final bleed and getting air out. The cup method means oil gets all over. I also tried closing the bleed hole, cycle the shaft, open hole and inextricably oil. That works too but may not be as reliable at getting air out. I may 3D print a cup with fitting that goes into the bleed hole. That won't be as messy potentially.
> 
> Anyone else find a good solution?


I managed to insert inside the top cap a little plastic bottle (with the bottom cut open), which is a bit less than 28mm of OD, with a 1mm o-ring on the outside of the bottle, which I've pressed with my finger nails.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I was on phone with DVO guy, and he said that the cup from cough syrup bottle works, with bottom cut off. I have not tried it. Bostik ^^^^ how do you rate your bottle/o-ring solution? Works well?


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

hoolie said:


> Bostik ^^^^ how do you rate your bottle/o-ring solution? Works well?


I've used it with the fork mounted on the bike, in the pic the fork is bottomed out. 
While you press the oring there's a risk to damage it (I have a pack of them just in case), but for now it has survived two bleeds.
The bottle is sufficiently stable, but you must pay attention not to hit it.
Said that, it makes the bleed a breeze. You must still compress the fork slowly or cover the bottle mouth, otherwise it could spill out.
When done I remove the excess oil with a syringe and a hose.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Doug said:


> I am 180 and 190-195 on bike. Shim stack tuning isn't very weight dependent. It adjusts how much force it takes to allow various shaft speeds via oil flow. So a 150lb rider at 30mph can generate more force than a 200lb rider doing 10mpg on the same trail and much more force if the lighter rider is in rougher trails.
> 
> Spring rate is far more about rider weight. You should use abiut the same air pressure on any terrain. Damper adjustments are how yuh tune to terrain. It's temptong to use air pressure but that's likely only going to solve one problem and introduce several more.
> 
> In your case the shim stack mod sounds right. It was suggested based on my profile: 190lbs, average agressiveness and speed, above average rough terrain. Good for people like me or faster lighter riders.


Hmmm. Never took time to think about it that way. Great perspective.

All comes back to E=mc2 (2 is squared)


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

The easiest way I found to bleed to cartridge was go cut a strip for an old under tube and slide it over the damper that zip tie it tightly to the outside of the damper tube to make a cup. When you put the compression assembly back in slide it halfway in with the compression fully open then change it to fully closed - slide in abit more then open it fully up again.

Screw the assembly fully in them fill the tube about halfway up and pump the cartridge. Do this with the rebound wide open and fully shut. The same with the compression 

It’s a pain to bleed but this is the best way I found to do it. If you get all the air out the damper should be silent when cycling it by hand.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Would like to know if Diamond clears 29+ wheels?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Mebaru said:


> Would like to know if Diamond clears 29+ wheels?


What year and model? The first gen 29 models no way. Don't know about the later boost models.


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## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

would a 2018 boost diamond clear sufficiently a 29x 2.6 nobby nic (67mm wide)?

I'm currently using them on a 2014 non boost pike with just enough clearance.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi all,

I've been having some trouble getting decent sag on my Diamond and was wondering if anyone has experienced something similar before. I know sag isn't a really important tuning aspect, but I've only been getting 5mm or so of sag, way off the recommended 21-28mm sag for my 140mm fork. 

I've been running 110-120psi, 6 turns of OTT, and fully counterclockwise on the LSC at 180ish lb geared. I'm a bit worried that cranking up the OTT without raising psi might cause some stickdown, but would definitely like the fork to be more compliant in the early part of the travel. 

Thanks for any help.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Phoenix864 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been having some trouble getting decent sag on my Diamond and was wondering if anyone has experienced something similar before. I know sag isn't a really important tuning aspect, but I've only been getting 5mm or so of sag, way off the recommended 21-28mm sag for my 140mm fork.
> 
> ...


Are you putting in air with the OTT and the compressions set to 0?

I'm about 170, and I run 120psi in my fork. I have no issue with hitting the proper sag numbers. Perhaps there is something internally wrong.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

No, I haven't tried airing up the fork without any OTT or compression dampening. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I don't think anything is internally wrong, as the fork has been about the same since it was totally rebuilt by DVO last fall.


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Hi guys,
I've been riding a Diamond since last fall... a brand new one. And since the very beginning it has been producing loud sucking sound when extending back. Even small bumps produce this. I know some dampers do this (my previous Pike was deadly silent though) but this is really loud. The fork seems to work flawlessly though. Air in the cartridge or common habit?
Thanks!


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

I been riding one since october. It has a slight clicking sound when I pull up on it.
Any ideas what it could be?


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## chyu89 (Sep 26, 2009)

Hi guys,

I read Page 9 regarding the OTT spring guide. 

My diamond too have the bottom out clunking sound, especially when I tweak my OTT a little. The sound then went away when I play around with the OTT again, set it to minimum then to maximum, then back to my desire 7 full turns.

I wonder should I request my local dealer to fix the OTT spring guide too. I sent back to them, they seems like dont know what to fix.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

If the OTT spring guide is cracked the fork will make noise. I know from experience.


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## chyu89 (Sep 26, 2009)

After my last "reset" . The clunk went away. Maybe I am not supposed to dial the OTT with air inside as mentioned in other forum.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Phoenix864 said:


> No, I haven't tried airing up the fork without any OTT or compression dampening. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I don't think anything is internally wrong, as the fork has been about the same since it was totally rebuilt by DVO last fall.


 are you measuring sag seated or standing?

At 120psi I would suggest within a turn or 2 of max OTT, 6 turns is not enough. Try going to 10


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## chyu89 (Sep 26, 2009)

120 psi with 10 ott wont result a travel sucked down?


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> are you measuring sag seated or standing?
> 
> At 120psi I would suggest within a turn or 2 of max OTT, 6 turns is not enough. Try going to 10


I've been measuring sag standing. When I tried the fork without any OTT and lower PSI it was even stiffer. I'll give 10 turns a shot, it sounds like it should help quite a bit. I've been a bit hesitant to try high OTT due to DVO warning about stickdown from too much. Would a large increase in OTT require also an adjustment to rebound?

Thanks.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

I find 120psi can happily go to max OTT without sticking down but is about the crossover point ie any less pressure and you may find it starts to suck down a bit. So 10 turns should be no problem at all for 110psi or more but try it for yourself.

Also make sure the fork is serviced and there is no excess friction or binding. A sticky fork will prevent it from fully extending when the forces are that low


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I find 120psi can happily go to max OTT without sticking down but is about the crossover point ie any less pressure and you may find it starts to suck down a bit. So 10 turns should be no problem at all for 110psi or more but try it for yourself.
> 
> Also make sure the fork is serviced and there is no excess friction or binding. A sticky fork will prevent it from fully extending when the forces are that low


I tried 10 turns OTT and 115PSI. The fork aired up just fine and is showing 150mm of stanchion for a 140mm travel fork. On the trail the fork felt much better, much less harsh all around with better traction. However, I still have a good 20mm of stanchion I should be using, so I'm thinking to drop PSI a bit and reduce HSC. I'm running around 20mm sag now as well. I could also be getting more sag, but 20mm is far better than the 10mm or less I was getting before. Thanks for the recommendations!


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

chyu89 said:


> After my last "reset" . The clunk went away. Maybe I am not supposed to dial the OTT with air inside as mentioned in other forum.


My noise happens when i pull hard to manual, or pump hard and pull hard for a big jump. Also its more like a click than a clunk. Went out today and the noise was not there. I did not adjust anything.
Today was the first day its been cold and misty here. Other days were all hot. Not sure of that bears any relevance.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

riyadh said:


> My noise happens when i pull hard to manual, or pump hard and pull hard for a big jump. Also its more like a click than a clunk. Went out today and the noise was not there. I did not adjust anything.
> Today was the first day its been cold and misty here. Other days were all hot. Not sure of that bears any relevance.


I would contact DVO by phone someone always answers. Ask them about the click. I think I read somewhere in this thread that there is a click in the shim stack sometimes when the fluid is passing by.


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

Rngspnr said:


> I would contact DVO by phone someone always answers. Ask them about the click. I think I read somewhere in this thread that there is a click in the shim stack sometimes when the fluid is passing by.


I also believe it is this.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Techspec360 said:


> ___ 17
> __ 15
> _____ 20 (preloader contact)
> ______ 21
> ...


Hello, as I would like to try your mod, may I ask your weight?
Have you been satisfied with the mod?


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Any chance the HSC spike people are complaining about might be due to the weight of the spring seat resting against the shim stack? That weight will have inertia that will resist motion at high acceleration rates (HSC). Seems like other companies doing the spring loaded stack make a point of making that piece as small as possible or simply have the spring pressing directly on the stack without a seat. Is it possible to either remove that sleeve/seat all together, or flip it to the other side so it no longer moves with the stack?

Also, I'm failing to see the point of the stack preload ring shim when the HSC spring does essentially the same thing? It looks like it just sets a minimum amount of HSC and ultimately most people run with almost no HSC through the adjuster because that base preload is already too much.


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Having ridden diamonds for a number of years, the only spikes/harshness ive felt is when the ott on my new forks was binding and tightening up by itself and when i was playing with the air pressure and ran it too high. 

if you rotate the spring and guide it wont touch anything. you can remove it as has been discussed a few pages back but you obviously loose HSC adjustments aswell as making the fork softer.

If your forks are feeling harsh id drop the air pressure 5-10psi the base settings have changed to reflect this. 

failing that do the ring shim mod.

I think the forks are ace, i did stray to a new set of grip2 36's for 9 months and hated them so now firmly back on the D1's


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## wvtrailbiker (Jan 24, 2008)

A 1in plastic conduit to threaded fitting with the threads sanded off makes a perfect oil catch container for bleeding fits snug and no leaks.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Nice! 

I have a service interval coming up and was looking for something better than the cough syrup cup type method.


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## xeren (Aug 1, 2014)

Just got a DVO Diamond Boost, but it came in the wrong travel length from what I ordered. Does the Diamond Boost have the same air shaft clamp size as the nonboost, 30mm?

If so, any recommendations for a shaft clamp? Or is the boost version easier to open, could I just use a strap wrench in a pinch?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

xeren said:


> Just got a DVO Diamond Boost, but it came in the wrong travel length from what I ordered. Does the Diamond Boost have the same air shaft clamp size as the nonboost, 30mm?
> 
> If so, any recommendations for a shaft clamp? Or is the boost version easier to open, could I just use a strap wrench in a pinch?


The boost version doesn't need to be clamped as such, the green bushing pilot is similar to the non-boost you can hold with circlip pliers, but then there is a lockring you unthread so you can push the pilot down and release a snap ring inside the tube. Still heat it up to break the loctite though!

Some kind of clamp helps just to steady it (but not essential) so the park axle vise is fine, otherwise WSS make a really tidy clamp that includes the 30mm.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

xeren said:


> Just got a DVO Diamond Boost, but it came in the wrong travel length from what I ordered. Does the Diamond Boost have the same air shaft clamp size as the nonboost, 30mm?
> 
> If so, any recommendations for a shaft clamp? Or is the boost version easier to open, could I just use a strap wrench in a pinch?


Heat it up to melt the loctite. Then use an old inner tube to grip the shaft. I wrapped it flat a few turns, then twist it a few times to tighten it down. I was able to use my hands and no clamp or vice to hold it while I open it up with some 90 degree bent nose pliers. This was the non-boost version so boost would be even easier.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

*Long rampling, hope it works*

Flipped the spring/seat to see if maybe the seat being against the stack and it's associated mass is causing high speed harshness. Also curious if it's impacting flow through the LSC circuit. Removed the ring shim, 15x0.15 and 16x0.15 shims as well and moved the ring shim inner shim up in the stack to make it more normal tapered stack. Hoping the softer non-preloaded stack allows me to use more LSC and makes the HSC adjustment more usable. Was previously fully open on HSC and LSC. Could be a waste of time, but I thought I'd give it a shot.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I honestly found my diamond did much better in high speed hits (more composed, less harsh) when I ran more HSC. Coming from Fox forks that I always ran HSC full open, this was a new one for me


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Im ready after 1 year with my diamond 
service mode on
I like it with original stacks but I cant find what oil I can use?
Spectro golden or motorex its easy to find here in Greece

I read no maxima/rochshox ok!!!


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

I've used Motorex 2.5W.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Darksoul said:


> Im ready after 1 year with my diamond
> service mode on
> I like it with original stacks but I cant find what oil I can use?
> Spectro golden or motorex its easy to find here in Greece
> ...


DVO uses Golden Spectro. 125/150 is the equivalent of 7.5wt oil for splash lubrication.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

mike156 said:


> Flipped the spring/seat to see if maybe the seat being against the stack and it's associated mass is causing high speed harshness. Also curious if it's impacting flow through the LSC circuit. Removed the ring shim, 15x0.15 and 16x0.15 shims as well and moved the ring shim inner shim up in the stack to make it more normal tapered stack. Hoping the softer non-preloaded stack allows me to use more LSC and makes the HSC adjustment more usable. Was previously fully open on HSC and LSC. Could be a waste of time, but I thought I'd give it a shot.
> 
> View attachment 1250327
> 
> View attachment 1250326


Ideally you would do one of teose things at a time to properly feel the effects

Removing the ring shim is a good move, but moving the valve seat won't help much, in fact it might make the adjuster not work at all or at least very unpredictable. It's only short sections of the shims lifting a fraction of a mm so the mass isn't a problem but since the spring isn't flat the sections of shim with no spring touching it can lift much easier than before


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Ideally you would do one of teose things at a time to properly feel the effects
> 
> Removing the ring shim is a good move, but moving the valve seat won't help much, in fact it might make the adjuster not work at all or at least very unpredictable. It's only short sections of the shims lifting a fraction of a mm so the mass isn't a problem but since the spring isn't flat the sections of shim with no spring touching it can lift much easier than before


Jonny - don't suppose you have any dyno data on the ring shim mod? i ran this a few year ago in my first diamonds but found it abit soft. i'm temped to try it again but not sure what the trade off will be be compared to the standard valving and subsequently to up the psi or hsc?


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Ideally you would do one of teose things at a time to properly feel the effects
> 
> Removing the ring shim is a good move, but moving the valve seat won't help much, in fact it might make the adjuster not work at all or at least very unpredictable. It's only short sections of the shims lifting a fraction of a mm so the mass isn't a problem but since the spring isn't flat the sections of shim with no spring touching it can lift much easier than before


Agreed on both accounts and appreciate the feedback. I'm just a fiddlef%%ker and not really following the (complete) scientific approach of one variable at a time. "Make better" is about the only goal.

I don't think it will disable the adjuster as the sizing on the sleeve is pretty close to prefect for being flipped. It moves well enough in the adjuster body and properly locates the spring. Another 0.002" of clearance on the OD would probably be all it took to make it perfect.

I used the 17mm shim as the landing shim, basically trying to create a contact line around the shim stack that will then spread the load more evenly to the face shims. Not sure it will be enough, but we will (possibly) find out. I say possibly as that seems like something that might be very hard to feel and correlate anyway?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

dlocki said:


> Jonny - don't suppose you have any dyno data on the ring shim mod? i ran this a few year ago in my first diamonds but found it abit soft. i'm temped to try it again but not sure what the trade off will be be compared to the standard valving and subsequently to up the psi or hsc?


If I get some time I will do some runs to show the difference, but the main reason was to make tuning easier from then on - once you add preload its now a second variable ie adding shims above the ring will raise the knee and the slope of the curve together - its tricky to adjust them separately.


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## wrongway (Jul 26, 2005)

rpearce1475 said:


> I honestly found my diamond did much better in high speed hits (more composed, less harsh) when I ran more HSC. Coming from Fox forks that I always ran HSC full open, this was a new one for me


Hear, Hear! I did that to mine and noticed the same thing.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

wrongway said:


> Hear, Hear! I did that to mine and noticed the same thing.


Wait, let me see if I get this.

With more HSC the fork works better than HSC fully open? 
What about for lighter and not aggressive riders who cannon achieve full travel even if they try?

BTW, my Diamond (short offset) doesn't have clicks (indents) for HSC. Took the dial off and there wasn't any excessive amount of grease.


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## Grunta (Jul 24, 2016)

In regards to no clicks, it unfortunately seems to be a thing with dvo suspension I've noticed for some reason?

It's not the end of the world, but is rather annoying.


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## wrongway (Jul 26, 2005)

Zayphod said:


> Wait, let me see if I get this.
> 
> With more HSC the fork works better than HSC fully open?
> What about for lighter and not aggressive riders who cannon achieve full travel even if they try?
> ...


For me it does. It feels more stable; although I get slightly more trail feedback. I got 4 clicks on HSC and 4 on LSC. I'm using less rebound now, because I'm not usually getting full travel. maybe 80-85%. Air pressure is at the lower end of the recommended PSI.

Lighter and less aggressive riders may need less HSC/LSC, slower rebound, and less PSI than recommended.

Yeah, you can barely feel the clicks on the HSC knob, but they're there. I took my dial off to check as well.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Zayphod said:


> Wait, let me see if I get this.
> 
> With more HSC the fork works better than HSC fully open?
> What about for lighter and not aggressive riders who cannon achieve full travel even if they try?
> ...


Generally lighter or more aggressive riders will have relatively less HSC, but just because you aren't getting full travel doesn't mean you have too much HSC. in some instances you can get full travel with an overdamped fork, or not get full travel with an underdamped fork. It is more of a spring issue than damper.

HSC needs to be "just right", as in enough damping to absorb the bump energy and not overshoot, but light enough that the wheel can get out of the way. Too little damping can be equally as rough as too much so it is a mistake to assume that just because you aren't using all the travel or it feels harsh that you don't need more HSC.

The detent thing is more noticeable in the new onyx forks - they use a light plastic insert as a spring, so you are better off counting turns (from closed remember!) instead of clicks


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I noticed running more vs less HSC that the fork felt much more composed (less ''spikey'') on high speed hits. Not a huge difference in suppleness.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

Hi All

Apologies if this has been asked before but I couldn't find it as a i read through 5 of the 10 pages... Anyway... how do you all set Sag and Rebound? Do you back off all OTT and Compression Settings and set Sag and Rebound? Or do you dial the settings in and then set Sag?

I'm 225lbs geared and ride pretty aggressively. I'm finding that for 20% sag, I only need 100psi. Seems like this isn't right given that the suggested pressure for my weight is approximately 130/140psi. Even with the low pressure, the fork feels spikey when riding fast through chunky terrain.

My other settings are
OTT - 8 rotations
HSC - 4 rotations
Rebound - 11 rotations from full closed

Anyway... want to reset and start from 0 so that's why I'm asking how people go about setting up their forks.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Start with DVO's recommended settings for your weight and then adjust to your preferences. The recommended settings will get you pretty close. I found that you can't set sag like other forks where you would push the o ring down it gives a false sag reading.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

"Adjust to your preferences" - what do you mean? why would the regular method give you false sag reading?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

The key is to not look at sag as a "target" on any fork or shock, but just one indicator you can use. The OTT does affect the sag measurement you get, eg increasing OTT will increase sag.

With the DVO, you are best to start with air pressure based on their recommendations then add OTT until the point where it is pulling the static fork in to its travel, then back off a turn.Then ride it and if you find the fork is too soft or hard, adjust the pressure 5 or 10 psi and reset the OTT in the same method

sfmtber- For you I would start at the suggested psi of 130 then set OTT to the max (clockwise) setting. That shouldn't pull the fork down at that pressure. Then set rebound to suit


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> sfmtber- For you I would start at the suggested psi of 130 then set OTT to the max (clockwise) setting. That shouldn't pull the fork down at that pressure. Then set rebound to suit


Awesome! Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that method a try!

One more question if you don't mind. In my mind, the setting I'm looking for is such that the fork floats through the baby head chatter in a buttery way and remains composed during big hits/big holes so that at the end of a long fast descent, I'm not feeling any or minimal arm pump and the fork stays up in it's travel during braking or steep descents. Is this too much to be expected? With my current settings, the fork seems to be staying high but I do notice that I get brake dive and I do get alot of feedback through the hands especially as speed increases. Seems to be okay at slower speeds and on climbs through technical terrain, it seems to track the ground pretty well.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

I did the full service in the fork works nice and listen in all settings like before but I realized that I have 7 more clicks in rebound....
not 20 clicks but 27 clicks work well and listen like before....
what is went wrong in the service or his casual ...

I used motorex 2.5 ,7.5 oils and all the replacing parts
air piston
gaskets
and the green knob


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

mike156 said:


> Flipped the spring/seat...Removed the ring shim, 15x0.15 and 16x0.15 shims as well and moved the ring shim inner shim up in the stack....Was previously fully open on HSC and LSC.


Finally got a break in the rain that we have been having and got a ride in. I also added 5cc of oil to the air spring and dropped 5psi out. Again, changed a lot so... Just an initial impression here as I adjust things in to hopefully get the feel I'm after.

So far it's WAY softer... Feels like my old debonair pike with FAST damper. That's a good and bad thing as the stock diamond had way better support for pumping and berms but the pike was WAY smoother in the rocks and always easy on the hands. It's lost that support that it use to have but now it doesn't make my hands hurt.

I'm currently on "3" LSC and the HSC is 3 turns in from open. The LSC bleed is fully closed at "5" so I still have two more LSC positions left to see if I can get some of that support back.

Kind of crazy how different the fork feels now, just gotta find that "just right" damping.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just another ride with the mods, LSC set to fully closed and HSC 3.75 turns in and it's feeling pretty good on steep rough stuff. It's making my Float X2 feel pretty poor now. Used up all but 5mm or so of travel and the progression felt pretty good, another 1-2ml of oil might be just right on the spring side.

Needs more support though for the corners.

Might just put it back to stock other than flipping that spring/spacer to see if it was just the ring shim removal making all the difference or if it is the spacer making such a difference.


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## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

*Compression Shim Stack*

I first tried the modified stack with the removal of 15x.15, 16x.15, 13x.15, and 20x14x.3. I kept the piston in the stock position. I flushed the cartridge oil and replaced the seals. My bladder was very compressed when I opened the cartridge up and my stanchion are showing wear from the bushings.

The fork felt much smoother with the service but the spike was still there and there was not enough support on really hard g-outs and a really hard hit where I came up short on a small gap across a deep rut. Both instances caused me to bottom out hard and over the bars I went. I have hit both of those instances bad before but the fork had enough compression support to absorb the hit and keep me upright. I had pretty much figured this setup was not going to cut it but I wanted do some kind of change for the first time and feel how it made the fork feel.

So I ordered some shims to be able to replicate the shim stack that Rollertoaster had success with. I only did the compression stack and piston flip but not the rebound stack. I'm not sure what the stock rebound stack configuration is. When I did this change I only pulled the compression loader and not the entire cartridge. My bladder had deflated a small amount and was not as full as it was when I did the first change.

I have had two rides with this and really liked it. No more spike from high speed chuck and the big hit support is still there. Like Rollertoaster stated it's firm and supportive with reduced brake dive. The only downside is the HSC adjustability is gone but I was never able to use it anyway. I previously had to run it wide open or the spiking would get worse.

I weigh 175 lbs. and ride in socal
140mm fork
Air pressure: 123 PSI
LSC: 3-4
Rebound: 9 turns in for closed
OTT: 2 turns in from least sensitive
10cc of added oil in air chamber


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Somebody should do a sanity check on my idea above about flipping the HSC spring and sleeve. I'm starting to think it has less to do with the mass of the spring seat and more to do with the spring seat blocks the LSC port in the stock configuration.

I put the ring shim back in and so far, it's feeling pretty good. Trail was more flow/jump/berm so I can't say much about the chunky stuff yet. It still has less support on the LSC side then the original setup, but it's much improved over the last setup. The biggest thing though setting it apart from stock is LSC is now on 3 without any harshness where even on 1 it was harsh in the stock setup.

HSC is full soft right now. Next ride I'll likely add some HSC in just to see how it reacts.

Summary of changes from stock:
Swapped position of HSC spring and seat
Removed 16mm and 15mm shims to avoid them binding on the spring
Changed fluid to WPL 2.5wt
Added 5ml of oil to the air spring side


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I’m currently looking into buying a Dvo diamond. Searching I noticed there are stores listing the fork as diamond and diamond D1. 
One shop has listed a diamond 29/27,5+ with boost spacing and 44mm offset for a good price and model year 2019.
Is there a difference between a diamond and a diamond D1?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

cYbernation said:


> I'm currently looking into buying a Dvo diamond. Searching I noticed there are stores listing the fork as diamond and diamond D1.
> One shop has listed a diamond 29/27,5+ with boost spacing and 44mm offset for a good price and model year 2019.
> Is there a difference between a diamond and a diamond D1?


It's branding. I'm not aware of any differences in the damper between models. Those models are:

DVO Diamond non-Boost: D1 damper, 51mm offset, 100mm hub spacing
DVO Diamond Boost: D1 Damper, 51mm or 44mm offset, 110mm hub spacing
both are available in 27.5 or 29 size, only the boost is 27.5+ compatible

The D1 damper is also used in the Saphire 32 and 34. That fork is just a bit lighter and not as stiff for more Trail/XC use. However still quite stiff.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

cYbernation said:


> I'm currently looking into buying a Dvo diamond. Searching I noticed there are stores listing the fork as diamond and diamond D1.
> One shop has listed a diamond 29/27,5+ with boost spacing and 44mm offset for a good price and model year 2019.
> Is there a difference between a diamond and a diamond D1?


D1 is the damper model, DVO has two dampers for the Diamond, the D1 and D2. The D1 is the fully featured damper with low and high speed damping adjusters, full range of OTT adjust, and rebound. The D2 is the less expensive simplified damper, with only low speed compression, 3 positions of OTT, and rebound. The D2 is currently only available as OEM, so chances are whatever Diamond you're looking at is a D1 model.


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## james.stoup (May 8, 2015)

Seemingly my OTT dial likes to adjust itself during the ride. I had mine set at 7, and when I did a reset on my fork today, it adjusted it 3 more turns. While not a massive issue, has anyone found a good fix to keep the adjuster from moving? I don't have a massive issue with checking every ride, but it'd be nice for it to be a set and forget adjustment considering it does require a 5mm hex.


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## Grunta (Jul 24, 2016)

My dvo onyx sc does that too. I'll set it to 8 and it would wind itself in/out to max turns.

I was fortunate when speaking to JohnnyC7 (the suspension lab) about some tuning help, I mentioned this problem and he sent me down a plastic cap he had manufactured to prevent the ott from turning 


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Any one else encounter a lot of stiction from the dampner side? 

With the lowers off, actuating the dampner by hand, it feels rough. Low miles on the fork, hasn't reached the service interval yet. Its noticeable.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Yep, with a brand-new fork. It got better after breaking in (50 kms or so).

By the way, guys have you got any secret tip for using the full travel? I am fat and not doing big jumps, just regular max 1 meter gaps... set my fork to proper 20% sag, OTT maxed (pressure is 145 psi), been playing with compression etc. but no matter what I do I cannot reach full travel, I have still got like 25mm reserve. I know this is an enduro hammer, not suitable for casual riders, but still.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I just installed my new diamond. Everything went smoothly, the only thing that is concerning me, is that I hardly feel any clicks on the hsc dial. Is there something wrong?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

goobak said:


> Yep, with a brand-new fork. It got better after breaking in (50 kms or so).
> 
> By the way, guys have you got any secret tip for using the full travel? I am fat and not doing big jumps, just regular max 1 meter gaps... set my fork to proper 20% sag, OTT maxed (pressure is 145 psi), been playing with compression etc. but no matter what I do I cannot reach full travel, I have still got like 25mm reserve. I know this is an enduro hammer, not suitable for casual riders, but still.


if i was you - id remove the ring and inner shim from the compression stack. this makes them softer but not too soft. if you read back through this thread, it has a number of tried and test compression valving modifications.

its a pretty simple task but shout up if you have any concern's


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

cYbernation said:


> I just installed my new diamond. Everything went smoothly, the only thing that is concerning me, is that I hardly feel any clicks on the hsc dial. Is there something wrong?


no thats how they are, you get used to it. i count rotations rather than clicks


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

dlocki said:


> if i was you - id remove the ring and inner shim from the compression stack. this makes them softer but not too soft. if you read back through this thread, it has a number of tried and test compression valving modifications.
> 
> its a pretty simple task but shout up if you have any concern's


Ah will try this! I thought this was just for very light riders (which I am not, I am over 100 kgs).


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

goobak said:


> Ah will try this! I thought this was just for very light riders (which I am not, I am over 100 kgs).


ok - as a quick test then. why don't you drop say 5 psi out of the fork and run abit more sag and if you are then starting to bottom out start to go in on the compression damping? if this doesn't help then alter the shim stack?

DVO guides say to set you air pressure for mid to bottom out so maybe try this before altering the shim stack.

As a rough guide i ran 125psi in my diamonds and im 83kgs . ive just got some Onxy SC's that i will be fitting this weekend


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

dlocki said:


> ok - as a quick test then. why don't you drop say 5 psi out of the fork and run abit more sag and if you are then starting to bottom out start to go in on the compression damping? if this doesn't help then alter the shim stack?
> 
> DVO guides say to set you air pressure for mid to bottom out so maybe try this before altering the shim stack.


I tried already but I am too afraid of geometry changes to be honest. I will look through the thread about the shim stack, I already did a bleed on my fork so I guess altering the shimstack is 5-10 minutes job?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

Let some pressure out and back the ott off to maintain the 20% then? 

I really wouldn’t be worried about maintaining the geometry?


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Ah yes, the OTT gambling. I set it to max and forgot, just as the DVO guide told me. Thanks for hints!


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

I can’t tell if you are taking the piss or not?


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

dlocki said:


> I can't tell if you are taking the piss or not?


Taking the piss? Sorry I am not native speaker... this means if I am angered? If so... of course I am not, I am grateful for hints what to try.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

goobak said:


> I tried already but I am too afraid of geometry changes to be honest. I will look through the thread about the shim stack, I already did a bleed on my fork so I guess altering the shimstack is 5-10 minutes job?


You should check to see if I'm loosing my mind or not. Flip the HSC spring and spring seat around so the spring is against the valve stack instead of the seat. That's all I've got going on in my diamond now on the damper side and it seems like it made a massive difference. I now use like 3 turns of HSC and move the LSC between 1-5 depending on the trails I'm riding. 1 for smashing, 5 for buff jump lines and 3 for more typical single track.

Other than that, I was having trouble using all the travel on most rides, but then a couple times it would bottom very harshly. I've added like 7mL of oil to the airspring and it has made a very nice improvement in the airspring side. I'm now down like 10 psi lower but have had zero harsh bottom outs since.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

goobak said:


> Taking the piss? Sorry I am not native speaker... this means if I am angered? If so... of course I am not, I am grateful for hints what to try.


Taking the piss means to be sarcastic or to joke about something. How have you been liking the fork at max OTT? I've been rather afraid to increase my OTT much past the recommended values due to the possibility of suck-down. Does your fork still show all its travel?


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I did my first test ride yesterday with my new diamond.
I’m super impressed with how it rides. Super supple and planted but still feels active. The damping feels so much better compared to my Lyrik


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

*shim destroyed... where it belongs?*

Hey guys,
I think I am in deep troubles. Leaving tomorrow for one week biking trip so I went for shim stack modification.
I did everything following this video 



.
But while reassembling, when putting the compression part on the bladder part this shim fell off somewhere. It doesn't belong to the shimstack (it seems to be thinner than shims) and it is destroyed. "Folded" and ripped in one "fold". I am not able to find any exploded view or photo of the compression unit which displays this shim. Can anyone please help me with this?

Edit: I watched closely the flick and the only shim which could be right this one is there:
https://i.imgur.com/BUXQY3c.jpg
The one inside the chamber in the shaft with bladder.
Am I right?


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Phoenix864 said:


> Taking the piss means to be sarcastic or to joke about something. How have you been liking the fork at max OTT? I've been rather afraid to increase my OTT much past the recommended values due to the possibility of suck-down. Does your fork still show all its travel?


Nah, I was not sarcastic at all.
OTT is another mystery of my fork. I cannot get past 11 full turns (yes, I released the air before cranking the knob up). Yes, the fork is extended to its max with OTT maxed too.
Anyway I modified the shimstack today (just shims, left the piston default) and I was able to reach full travel on 20% sag, all compressions on max open - this was something I was not able to achieve before. I will surely have to play with HSC because the fork is probably too hungry for travel now but simple tests around the house were very satisfying.



mike156 said:


> You should check to see if I'm loosing my mind or not. Flip the HSC spring and spring seat around so the spring is against the valve stack instead of the seat.


Ah I got to this too late... I already modified shimstack.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

So I'm having a tough time dialing in my fork. I keep reading on this forum about the fork being super supple and planed but mine seems overly harsh/stiff. I don't really get that planted/supple feeling and seem to feel anything bigger than small root, shallow braking bumps, or baby head sized rocks. Seems like the fork is spikey on fast hits and doesn't provide that hover bike feel that I've felt on the Lyric or the new Fox 36 Grip 2. Am I just expecting too much from the DVO?


Here's what I'm running
Me: 220lbs riding weight
Pressure: 120 psi (as measured by my shock pump)
Rebound: 4-6 clicks from full slow
HSC: None
LSC: 3
OTT: 8 full turns

Fork stays up in it's travel well and it only bottoms out when I hit anything really big at speed but it's the initial couple of inches that seem harsh. I've tried increasing and decreasing OTT and have gone to 9 clicks on rebound (per instructions by DVO as they said it may be that the OTT is no recovering fast enough at 4 clicks from full slow) but there doesn't seem to be much difference.

Any ideas/suggestions? I've sent the fork back to DVO twice and they say the fork is working as expected.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

sfmtber said:


> So I'm having a tough time dialing in my fork. I keep reading on this forum about the fork being super supple and planed but mine seems overly harsh/stiff. I don't really get that planted/supple feeling and seem to feel anything bigger than small root, shallow braking bumps, or baby head sized rocks. Seems like the fork is spikey on fast hits and doesn't provide that hover bike feel that I've felt on the Lyric or the new Fox 36 Grip 2. Am I just expecting too much from the DVO?
> 
> Here's what I'm running
> Me: 220lbs riding weight
> ...


Have you tried it with the LSC set to 0? I don't remember where my HSC is set, but I know it is not 0. The fork gets a whole lot softer with out any LSC, and the HSC can be used to fix the spikey feeling.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

dubthang said:


> Have you tried it with the LSC set to 0? I don't remember where my HSC is set, but I know it is not 0. The fork gets a whole lot softer with out any LSC, and the HSC can be used to fix the spikey feeling.


I have. I've tried with no LSC and obviously with no HSC.

How can you use HSC to fix spikey feeling? If I add HSC, wouldn't that make it more spikey since it'd be dampening compression on high speed hits, i.e. making it harder for the fork to compress.

And finally... when you guys say "buttery" or "supple", does that mean you're not feeling the trail chatter? When I say I'm not feeling the fork being "supple", I mean that I can feel the trail chatter. I would expect the OTT to gobble this stuff up. Or am I wrong?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

sfmtber said:


> If I add HSC, wouldn't that make it more spikey since it'd be dampening compression on high speed hits, i.e. making it harder for the fork to compress.


Yes.


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

I did the piston flip and removed a ring shim. Worked out great for me, but Im 140 lbs. Really smoothed out the small trail chatter.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

sfmtber said:


> So I'm having a tough time dialing in my fork. I keep reading on this forum about the fork being super supple and planed but mine seems overly harsh/stiff. I don't really get that planted/supple feeling and seem to feel anything bigger than small root, shallow braking bumps, or baby head sized rocks. Seems like the fork is spikey on fast hits and doesn't provide that hover bike feel that I've felt on the Lyric or the new Fox 36 Grip 2. Am I just expecting too much from the DVO?
> 
> Here's what I'm running
> Me: 220lbs riding weight
> ...


How are you 220 and running 120psi and not bottoming it out on pebbles?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

FastBanana said:


> How are you 220 and running 120psi and not bottoming it out on pebbles?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Exactly my point!

Maybe my shock pump under reads OR there's something going on with fork OR I ride light of foot...


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

By the way, what is recommended way to set sag? Do I set it by going with recommended pressures on DVO website OR by measuring sag? If the latter, should I back off OTT, HSC, and LSC before setting sag?


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

sfmtber said:


> So I'm having a tough time dialing in my fork. I keep reading on this forum about the fork being super supple and planed but mine seems overly harsh/stiff.


Was solving exactly the same "problem" (putting it into quotation marks because I know the problem is me, not the fork - it is really designed and set for aggressive fast shredding, I am not this kind of rider (yet)). I did a shimstack modification (without the piston flip) and it feels like a completely different fork now. It is buttery smooth - but the drawback is it loves it's travel much more than before. I have already ended with HSC set to 18 clicks and still could use more.

What is your sag? The pressure seems to be very low considering your weight. I realized this fork works better with shallower sag (I ended with 17 percents +-) than with deeper.

Regarding your question about measuring the sag: general consensus is "fork fully opened and measure in aggressive stance" but this topic usually leads to a flamewar .


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

sfmtber said:


> How can you use HSC to fix spikey feeling? If I add HSC, wouldn't that make it more spikey since it'd be dampening compression on high speed hits, i.e. making it harder for the fork to compress.


You are right. I was misunderstanding what you meant by spikey.



sfmtber said:


> By the way, what is recommended way to set sag? Do I set it by going with recommended pressures on DVO website OR by measuring sag? If the latter, should I back off OTT, HSC, and LSC before setting sag?


You need to measure the compression on the stanchion with the rubber ring. Open the fork all the way, and then sit on the bike. Measure the amount of sag. Play around with the total amount of sag to meet your preference. You may find you want a bit more or less.

I run about 118 psi in my fork and I am 165 pounds. Perhaps your fork is already too compressed to feel supple due to the lack of air.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

dubthang said:


> You are right. I was misunderstanding what you meant by spikey.
> 
> You need to measure the compression on the stanchion with the rubber ring. Open the fork all the way, and then sit on the bike. Measure the amount of sag. Play around with the total amount of sag to meet your preference. You may find you want a bit more or less.
> 
> I run about 118 psi in my fork and I am 165 pounds. Perhaps your fork is already too compressed to feel supple due to the lack of air.


How much sag do you get at 118 psi? 25%? 30%


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

sfmtber said:


> So I'm having a tough time dialing in my fork. I keep reading on this forum about the fork being super supple and planed but mine seems overly harsh/stiff. I don't really get that planted/supple feeling and seem to feel anything bigger than small root, shallow braking bumps, or baby head sized rocks. Seems like the fork is spikey on fast hits and doesn't provide that hover bike feel that I've felt on the Lyric or the new Fox 36 Grip 2. Am I just expecting too much from the DVO?
> 
> Here's what I'm running
> Me: 220lbs riding weight
> ...


I've been running very similar settings, though I weight about 40-50lb less (180lb-ish). At 115-120PSI, 8 turns OTT, 6 clicks HSC, full open LSC, and rebound 6 out from full fast, I find the fork to be acceptably compliant while being very supportive.

I would highly recommend trying more PSI and OTT. Don't worry too much about going over the recommended OTT, going 2-3 turns over shouldn't result in any suck-down. I would also recommend slightly more rebound, just in case. It's an easy adjustment to make, so I would recommend experimenting.

I would recommend trying 130psi, 12 turns OTT, rebound in the middle (10 clicks from either side), and opening up compression. Something to note, if I remember correctly DVO's online base tune guide has the LSC adjustment backward. To open HSC turn the dial counterclockwise, to open LSC turn the dial clockwise (if I remember correctly, maybe someone else can confirm).


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> I've been running very similar settings, though I weight about 40-50lb less (180lb-ish). At 115-120PSI, 8 turns OTT, 6 clicks HSC, full open LSC, and rebound 6 out from full fast, I find the fork to be acceptably compliant while being very supportive.
> 
> I would highly recommend trying more PSI and OTT. Don't worry too much about going over the recommended OTT, going 2-3 turns over shouldn't result in any suck-down. I would also recommend slightly more rebound, just in case. It's an easy adjustment to make, so I would recommend experimenting.
> 
> I would recommend trying 130psi, 12 turns OTT, rebound in the middle (10 clicks from either side), and opening up compression. Something to note, if I remember correctly DVO's online base tune guide has the LSC adjustment backward. To open HSC turn the dial counterclockwise, to open LSC turn the dial clockwise (if I remember correctly, maybe someone else can confirm).


Why would you recommend more PSI? Wouldn't that "increase the spring stiffness" since I'm adding more air to the same given volume. I would think that that would make the fork stiffer since it would have more air?


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## heybear_smooth (Dec 16, 2016)

If you run too little PSI the fork will be spending more time further into the travel where the spring rate increases rapidly. This ramp up can create a harsh feeling fork. Running more PSI will allow you to ride higher in the travel where the air spring doesn't ramp up so quickly creating a less harsh feeling fork.


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## sfmtber (Aug 30, 2004)

that makes sense. thanks for the explanation!


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

Would adding oil in the air chamber be an option too? It would have the same effect as tokens on other forks.
I know there is a limit on how much you can add to a Diamond fork though


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## heybear_smooth (Dec 16, 2016)

Adding oil could be an option in some instances, in this case I'm not sure if that is the right option. The air pressure seems a little low for the rider's weight so adding oil may increase the harshness the rider is experiencing.


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

There was a post above about not being able to get the full 14 turns of OTT. I'm having the same problem on my fork. With no air in the fork or with the spring removed I can only get 11 turns. At the top there is two nuts above the travel spacers. It looks like the jam nut is getting stuck on the sleeve/spring seat. Has anyone else had this problem and been able to fix it?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

neil_240 said:


> There was a post above about not being able to get the full 14 turns of OTT. I'm having the same problem on my fork. With no air in the fork or with the spring removed I can only get 11 turns. At the top there is two nuts above the travel spacers. It looks like the jam nut is getting stuck on the sleeve/spring seat. Has anyone else had this problem and been able to fix it?


Update: I just spoke to Ronnie and this is actually a normal behaviour. Newest internals have got modified thread design and there are just 11 turns on OTT.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I have a few rides with my new diamond under my belt now.
I’m pretty happy with it, but today I noticed that there is a lot of friction in the beginning. Sometimes I really had to push down hard to get it going.
After that it feels buttery smooth again.
Anything I can try?


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

cYbernation said:


> I have a few rides with my new diamond under my belt now.
> I'm pretty happy with it, but today I noticed that there is a lot of friction in the beginning. Sometimes I really had to push down hard to get it going.
> After that it feels buttery smooth again.
> Anything I can try?


Give it more time. Had the same behaviour when the fork was new. It wasn't "push down hard" though, but the fork was sticky. Give the bike rest overnight upside down, it helps too.


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## james.stoup (May 8, 2015)

cYbernation said:


> I have a few rides with my new diamond under my belt now.
> I'm pretty happy with it, but today I noticed that there is a lot of friction in the beginning. Sometimes I really had to push down hard to get it going.
> After that it feels buttery smooth again.
> Anything I can try?


Bushings need to wear in, or you're a little dry and a lowers oil refresh will make you happy.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

james.stoup said:


> Bushings need to wear in, or you're a little dry and a lowers oil refresh will make you happy.


I looked at the manual. Do I really have to unscrew the cartridges at the top for pulling the lowers? 
Or can I just do it like with every other fork?


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

cYbernation said:


> I looked at the manual. Do I really have to unscrew the cartridges at the top for pulling the lowers?
> Or can I just do it like with every other fork?


Same as other forks


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

If Motorex 2.5wt is great for the damper I guess their 7.5wt fork oil is fine for the lowers, right?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Zayphod said:


> If Motorex 2.5wt is great for the damper I guess their 7.5wt fork oil is fine for the lowers, right?


I would go supergliss for the lowers if I was using Motorex


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I would go supergliss for the lowers if I was using Motorex


Strangely Supergliss is not available near me. If a bit thicker oil is better, then what about their 15wt (68.9 cSt) one?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Zayphod said:


> Strangely Supergliss is not available near me. If a bit thicker oil is better, then what about their 15wt (68.9 cSt) one?


Can these guys not supply? https://motorex.bg/

I would go 10wt Motorex if using fork oil.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Can these guys not supply? https://motorex.bg/
> 
> I would go 10wt Motorex if using fork oil.


They import it per request with a minimum order of 5 liters which is way too much for the intended use.

If it does make that big of a difference then I could order 1L from somewhere else after all, otherwise I could pick 10wt locally.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Got DVO on my new Ripmo. Should be fun!


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Hi all. New to the forum and DVO...

I got my DVO diamonds the other day, and there were some surprises that I didn't expect...

I'm from Namibia, and had to travel to South Africa to buy these forks. 
My first fork had stiction, and was quite notchy through it's travel, especially the top portion. (My replaced 2019 Fox Float 34 were much much smoother.)
The HSC compression dial had a lot of vertical play, so much so I could almost see past the o-ring seal. Also, the HSC dial had no discernible clicks. I had the fork exchanged, and the replacement had paint damage on the crown and a 2cm vertical scratch on the air side stanchion down to the silver... This fork had no stiction, and the stanchions were "wet" when cycled through the travel.

I got the original fork back as I didn't want a scratched fork, and I was returning to Namibia very soon.

Now I'm back in Namibia, had the fork on my bike by Monday afternoon. Wednesday I decide to check the lowers for oil, and so I pulled them off and virtually nothing came out; About 5cc from the damper side and nothing from the air side. Just residual oil could be seen inside. Also, barely a trace of grease around the dust wipers.

While doing the lowers on a brand new fork  , I noticed the seal at the base of the rebound damper was popping out.










I put together the fork and filled the legs with oil. Contacted DVO USA and South Africa... I've only heard back from South Africa, who said I can return the fork for a warrantee rebuild, which was a response that didn't help me much right now.

So today, unable to resist, I pulled the lowers again to attempted popping the seal back in. Good thing I did since it had come out a little more since riding my bike yesterday. I wasn't prepared to disassemble the damper and do a bleed, so I used a thin nylon tool and painstakingly massaged the seal back in... 
Some small miracle later, lots of time, and saw fingers too, the seal is back in. I could see that cycling the damper shaft before hand was causing damper oil to leak through the seal.

Now the fork is working great, with no stiction and is butter smooth, be it 4 days on my bike and already with the inevitable tool marks.

I've got to say I'm rather surprised by what I've read here and experienced so far with DVO. I was expecting much much more, and it's really put some of my FOX issues into perspective. Yes, I love how the Diamond feels while riding, and that it's relatively simple to service fork. I greatly prefer it to my fox 34, but, I'm seriously doubting the quality control and this throws my intention for upgrading to a Topaz T3 Shock out the window. DVO USA have yet to reply to my mails...

Also, just how much shaft speed do I need to feel any changes to the HSC damping? Yes, I'm a noob, and I can feel the LSC dial has a much smaller affect on the damping than my Fox 34 with the basic FIT GRIP damper which virtually locked the fork at the closed position. I don't have fast chunky descents where I live. I've ridden over some severe corrugation, and I might be imagining a more spiky feedback in the HSC closed position, but I'm not positive since I cannot do consistent runs across the area. The Diamond is certainly less spiky than my Fox 34 though.

I'm about 214lb, 145 PSI, OTT is at 9 (out of 11) Rebound is at 11 from slowest. HSC is at 4 clicks from wide open, and LSC is at 1.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The HSC and LSC did almost nothing in mine until I flipped the HSC spring/collar. My post is in this thread from May 7 2019. I pulled out some shims but on June 9 I had put the shim stack back with just the collar/spring still flipped.

If you aren't afraid of opening the damper, you can simply pull the compression loader out the top without taking apart anything else. Super easy to bleed too. Worth a shot anyway as it made a very noticable difference on my Diamond. Like I mention in the post, my thoughts is that the spring collar blocks oil flow out of the LSC port. Flipping the spring opens up the flow path to the LSC port and makes the fork work like it's supposed to. After this chance, setting LSC to 1 makes the fork very soft, fully closed makes it feel just like it did in stock form.

Also at 145psi, I would expect OTT to be maxed out.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Thank you, Mike.

I'll take a look at your post, but I'll probably consider the procedure a little later when I feel like tinkering. Right now the fork feels super smooth and soft.

I was at 130-135 psi, but I was using a lot of my travel on not too serious g-outs and I like a fork with mid range support without getting very hard at the bottom. The 145 psi and OTT seems like a good fit for me, by feel alone. Bear in mind that both my shock pumps read very different pressures, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are both wrong. Differences can be as high as 15 psi.

I've been fiddling between 8 and 10 rotations of OTT. Still dialling it in. A slight chest cold is keeping me from doing a proper cycle... these forks have only done some 40km. So early days still!



mike156 said:


> The HSC and LSC did almost nothing in mine until I flipped the HSC spring/collar. My post is in this thread from May 7 2019. I pulled out some shims but on June 9 I had put the shim stack back with just the collar/spring still flipped.
> 
> If you aren't afraid of opening the damper, you can simply pull the compression loader out the top without taking apart anything else. Super easy to bleed too. Worth a shot anyway as it made a very noticable difference on my Diamond. Like I mention in the post, my thoughts is that the spring collar blocks oil flow out of the LSC port. Flipping the spring opens up the flow path to the LSC port and makes the fork work like it's supposed to. After this chance, setting LSC to 1 makes the fork very soft, fully closed makes it feel just like it did in stock form.
> 
> Also at 145psi, I would expect OTT to be maxed out.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

I’m replacing the upper seals and oil in my diamond. My last fork was a Pike and I used some PVC to install the seals. Are the diamond seals flangeless like the fox ones and need a proper seal driver?


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

They are regular seals (not the flangeless seals) - https://dvosuspension.com/product/seal-kit/

I have had really good luck with the seal tools from https://www.ebay.com/usr/mtnbiker4life


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

M_Zimelka said:


> I was at 130-135 psi, but I was using a lot of my travel on not too serious g-outs and I like a fork with mid range support without getting very hard at the bottom. The 145 psi and OTT seems like a good fit for me, by feel alone. Bear in mind that both my shock pumps read very different pressures, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are both wrong. Differences can be as high as 15 psi.


I was having similar issues with bottoming out and adding 7mL of oil into the air spring made a big difference.

I get you on the pumps, my last one had serious non-linearity/offset issues and basically read zero until 40psi.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

I did the lower leg service a few days ago and noticed that the damper shaft wasn’t running smooth through it’s travel, it felt rough in the last part.
Should I completely rebuild the damper?


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

buddiesconfusion said:


> I'm replacing the upper seals and oil in my diamond. My last fork was a Pike and I used some PVC to install the seals. Are the diamond seals flangeless like the fox ones and need a proper seal driver?


I 3d printed a tool and was able to insert them with hand pressure. If you have access to a 3d printer I can send you the file


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

spaniardclimber said:


> I 3d printed a tool and was able to insert them with hand pressure. If you have access to a 3d printer I can send you the file


I'll look around and see if I can find a 3dprinter


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

buddiesconfusion said:


> I'm replacing the upper seals and oil in my diamond. My last fork was a Pike and I used some PVC to install the seals. Are the diamond seals flangeless like the fox ones and need a proper seal driver?


I always just pop the new seals in the freezer for a couple of hours and then just push them in by hand. 
Have done this on multiple forks over the years and have never needed a seal driver of any sort.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

Do I have to turn the rebound all the way to fast and unwind the negative spring before pulling the lowers?


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

cYbernation said:


> Do I have to turn the rebound all the way to fast and unwind the negative spring before pulling the lowers?


I didn't have to do it, nor saw it stated in the user manual (mine is the non boost btw)


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I have not posted here in a few months. Sold my Canfield Riot, bought an Ibis Ripmo! Its a little bit better here and there, I love it! New bike has a FOX Factory 36 Grip II. Its great. I swore off FOX in 2013, after hating CTD. Rockshocks Pike was my fork on a few bikes until I bought a DVO Diamond in 2016. I Beat that thing down, it never failed, it was awesome! Replaced it with a new DVO Diamond last year. Awesome! There are a few things I miss about my DVO Diamond. Its a point and shoot fork on advanced technical DH trails. The support at high speed is fantastic on the DVO, probably better than my new Grip II. There is not much about the FOx that I like better than DVO. Its lighter, its slightly more plush, but it dives a little bit more than I like, however, it does not bottom out unpredictability. Grip II is a great fork. At 150 hours I am supposed to get it serviced, and this is where I will really miss the DVO Diamond, as DVO is easily fully serviceable at home. Anyhow, I rode a Lyrik and it was pretty fantastic. Fox 36 is great. DVO is great, and I will probably buy another Diamond in the future. Its a good time to be a Mt biker! If I could have chosen a DVO Diamond on my complete bike purchase, I would have. Now that I have ridden Fox for 20 rides or so, I think DVO is competitive with Rockshox/ Fox as a performance leader. Especially for aggressive riding style, which I am every few rides (some rides are just chill, now that I am in my 50's). The Fox products are very refined, maybe over engineered, but my new fork is really nice. If you are riding a DVO and wondering if you are missing out on the latest and greatest from FOX, you aren't missing out on anything really. With luck 
I will not get stanchion creak, which I had before, and FOX warrantied. DVO Diamond was flogged 200 days per year and zero problems. A bad DVO footnut was actually caused by over tightening (online torque spec on DVO site was innaccurate). So enjoy your DVO !


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

hoolie said:


> I have not posted here in a few months. Sold my Canfield Riot, bought an Ibis Ripmo! Its a little bit better here and there, I love it!
> 
> If I could have chosen a DVO Diamond on my complete bike purchase, I would have.


I got a Canfield Riot a few weeks ago. A bit of an experiment vs my Tallboy LTc. The Riot is definitely the better bike for me, but certainly heavier. They are real sleepers and hold up very well. I'ver ridden the 2020 Hightower, Ripmo, Ripley, Smuggler, Primer, and a few more. The only bike I prefer is the Ripley and maybe the Hightower (too plush imo) and that may be due to the reduced offset fork. A short offset Diamond is my next upgrade.

Have you seen the new Ripmo AF (aluminum)? DVO Spec'd Ripmo starting at $2999. Thats crazy cheap. That could very well be my next bike, but I do like the CBF pedaling of the Riot. I just wish the reach were 500mm like the Ripley and other 2020 bikes.

I agree that the DVO stuff holds up well against the Fox/RS offerings. I don't see a need to constantly refine suspension. If it works...leave it alone. The only improvements I could see them making are to make it lighter, but not at the expense of stiffness or durability. l


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

hoolie said:


> I have not posted here in a few months. Sold my Canfield Riot, bought an Ibis Ripmo! Its a little bit better here and there, I love it! New bike has a FOX Factory 36 Grip II. Its great. I swore off FOX in 2013, after hating CTD. Rockshocks Pike was my fork on a few bikes until I bought a DVO Diamond in 2016. I Beat that thing down, it never failed, it was awesome! Replaced it with a new DVO Diamond last year. Awesome! There are a few things I miss about my DVO Diamond. Its a point and shoot fork on advanced technical DH trails. The support at high speed is fantastic on the DVO, probably better than my new Grip II. There is not much about the FOx that I like better than DVO. Its lighter, its slightly more plush, but it dives a little bit more than I like, however, it does not bottom out unpredictability. Grip II is a great fork. At 150 hours I am supposed to get it serviced, and this is where I will really miss the DVO Diamond, as DVO is easily fully serviceable at home. Anyhow, I rode a Lyrik and it was pretty fantastic. Fox 36 is great. DVO is great, and I will probably buy another Diamond in the future. Its a good time to be a Mt biker! If I could have chosen a DVO Diamond on my complete bike purchase, I would have. Now that I have ridden Fox for 20 rides or so, I think DVO is competitive with Rockshox/ Fox as a performance leader. Especially for aggressive riding style, which I am every few rides (some rides are just chill, now that I am in my 50's). The Fox products are very refined, maybe over engineered, but my new fork is really nice. If you are riding a DVO and wondering if you are missing out on the latest and greatest from FOX, you aren't missing out on anything really. With luck
> I will not get stanchion creak, which I had before, and FOX warrantied. DVO Diamond was flogged 200 days per year and zero problems. A bad DVO footnut was actually caused by over tightening (online torque spec on DVO site was innaccurate). So enjoy your DVO !


have you serviced your air spring? Usually negative is full of grease.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Has anyone sent their diamond back to DVO for new bushings? Fork is a touch short of two years old and is starting to get some play.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

What does 2 yrs mean? Ride on weekends only? Thats only like 180 hours.Or, Ride 5 days a week x 2-3 hours? That would be 400-500 hours.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

hoolie said:


> What does 2 yrs mean? Ride on weekends only? Thats only like 180 hours.Or, Ride 5 days a week x 2-3 hours? That would be 400-500 hours.


Two to Three times a week. I ride like an ass. Everything is a jump, like to hit stuff, 100mph into rocks. I haven't been nice to it when it comes to riding but my maintenance is on-point.

I notice the play when popping off stuff. The fork has a little "jiggle" that comes from the lowers floating around on the uppers due to a slight gap in the bushings.

It's not affecting the performance of the fork at all (that I can tell) but I can't stand play, noise or rattling on anything in my bike. But If I have new bushings installed that could create some stiction that could make the fork harsh.

I'd love to having bushings with grease ports drilled through the lowers with spiral grooves in the bushings for fresh lube to be forced in with a needle gun. But that's me....


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

FYI. I called dvo and spoke with Ronnie. He said there are riders out there with 1K plus hours on the fork with no bushing issues. He suggested double checking my OTT spring insulator on next rebuild. 

And then.....they are sending the parts no charge. You can not even complain about these guys. Awesome service and great products.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

My Diamond had a cracked OTT spring guide and would make a rattling sound on compressions. DVO warrantied the parts and sent them no charge.


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## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

I just picked up a closeout Giant reign 1 adv, have one ride on the DVO and it feels awesome! Anyone know how to adjust the internal OTT? I can't find it mentioned anywhere on the net.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

rotaholic said:


> I just picked up a closeout Giant reign 1 adv, have one ride on the DVO and it feels awesome! Anyone know how to adjust the internal OTT? I can't find it mentioned anywhere on the net.


Plenty of info here

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/setup/diamond/


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## rotaholic (Feb 17, 2013)

spaniardclimber said:


> Plenty of info here
> 
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/setup/diamond/


Some great info there, but nothing that mentions how to change internal OTT. These forks are D2 not D1 and are oem spec. I will tear them down and maybe make a video for people.


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## gsfino (Sep 5, 2018)

I just got my DVO Diamond on my new Ripmo AF. .... Question, the HSC makes no audible clicks. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm guessing my settings based on a percentage of the 5 rotation it makes vs the 29 clicks I can't hear.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

The HSC on Diamond's is a very subtle click...so subtle that I can't always tell that it made 1 click, 2 clicks, etc.

I tend to go by the relative positioning of the words on the HSC collar and and adjustment would be like an eighth of a turn kind of a deal if that makes sense.


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## gsfino (Sep 5, 2018)

Got it. Thanks


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Look up the beryl instructions for how to change the internal OTT


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Just an update:
The guys at DVO were nice and helpful but it's been a slow two months for them to send me some parts. I finally received a replacement damper end cap and a few other service bits, complementary of DVO USA. Even a handy 3D printed bleed cup! So I'm happy and even with the initial experience and long wait will probably still buy the DVO Topaz for the rear shock when my Fox needs replacing.

I've done 1100km (guessing 60-65hours) with the forks so far, and my wrists and arms are thankful... no more fatigue and pain from small bumps. But where this fork shines is when it gets faster and rougher, it soaks up bumps with such ease and just keeps the wheel planted. Day and night difference to my 2019 Fox 34 Float.


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

Only a few hours left for DVO cyber monday sale, everything is 25% off!
Beryl for $299?!?!? Yup. I have one I bought for just a bit more in a previous sale and it is rigid and plush. New PRs on all the steep stuff with the upgrade. Go get em!


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## guim (May 2, 2006)

Damn! Too bad they didn't have any Beryl 29 or I'd have bought a second one!


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Hello and happy new year everyone.

After many iterations, I'm pretty satisfied with my current setup (I'm a lightweight and not aggressive rider):
- flipped piston
- removed green preload collar and spring
- removed ring shim
- only shims kept: 13-17-21mm


Now the question for the new year  is: does anyone has looked into the mid-valve? It requires more disassemble and actually I even don't know if it has a compression shim stack or not.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

The mid valve is a plain free-flowing check valve


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

Anyway to bump the Diamond up to 170mm?


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

fiveo said:


> Anyway to bump the Diamond up to 170mm?


I believe all boost Diamonds can go 150-170mm via the internal spacers. Is yours an older model?

I recently acquired a used DVO Diamond boost. Coming from a debonair Yari, the difference is huge. Not very noticeable on smooth trails and/or softer ground, but when the rough stuff starts the fork shines. I had serious arm pump issues on steep rocky trails that took me more than 6 mins to finish. First ride with the Diamond I went down a very bumpy, new to me trail that took me 13mins to clear and my arms were almost fresh. It would have been a total white knuckle ride on the Yari, maybe with a break in the middle for recovery.

Biggest diference is how it handles repeated hits at speed. It just tracks the ground whatever the terrain and allows to stay in control in situations that I couldn't before. I actually find mysef recalibrating my braking habits because I'm moving forward instead of geting bumped up & down over obstacles. Suddently the front end of my hardtail got faster and the rear has trouble keeping up!

Customer service looks ace too, sent them an e-mail the other day and got a reply from Ronnie 3hrs later. Their suggested base settings are working fine for me so far, only had to play +/-1 click of rebound so far.

Not a big fan of the green ano myself, but my wife was impressed with the finish, and she couldn't care less about bikes and components.

I haven't ridden top end RS and Fox forks, but I really couldn't have asked anything more from the Diamond.


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

Thanks for the info!


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

It would seem my four month old Diamond has developed bushing play. 
Four months of gentle trail riding... 

I have a list of minor annoyances with this fork, that are certainly in the shadow of how well this fork behaves on the trail, but with my initial troubles I had which I reported here too, together with this bushing play, I'm now fairly put off enough to go back to Fox. 

Disappointing.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi ,I can’t achieve 160mm on my Diamond,even if I left all the air out and give it a tank on the handlebar I just can squeeze 150mm out of it,The o-ring stops at about 1cm from the crown,am I missing something?


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## james.stoup (May 8, 2015)

bullit43 said:


> Hi ,I can't achieve 160mm on my Diamond,even if I left all the air out and give it a tank on the handlebar I just can squeeze 150mm out of it,The o-ring stops at about 1cm from the crown,am I missing something?


Sounds like your bladder burped air. This makes the fork extremely progressive and you run into the issue you have. Rebleed and open up the bladder to equalize it and you'll be good to go. Or send it to DVO for warranty/service and they'll take care of it.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

james.stoup said:


> Sounds like your bladder burped air. This makes the fork extremely progressive and you run into the issue you have. Rebleed and open up the bladder to equalize it and you'll be good to go. Or send it to DVO for warranty/service and they'll take care of it.


Thank you James,the fork is fine,after contacting DVO they say the fork has a bottom out bumper that prevents harsher bottom outs,i´m managing to squeeze 155mm,so it´s not a 150mm travel reducer inside the fork that´s preventing it to achieve full travel,as for the chain guide i took off the 4mm inner spacer from the non drive side of the BB and put a 2.5 as SRAM specs to use on the drive side on the outsideand the guide now orks fine with the appropriate space to the bottom link.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I just got a non Boost Diamond and it comes with an axle that has a QR lever. Is there a bolt thru axle with will work with a non Boost Diamond?

Thx.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

There is no non-qr axle for the non-boost forks. I called last year when I still had one and asked.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

They told me the same thing when I ordered the fork over the phone. I was hoping that there is a third party company that makes one.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

You could try here.
https://robertaxleproject.com/what-axle-do-i-need/


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

^^ I sent them an email and no go...but thanks for the suggestion.

I do have another question about the open setting. Which way is open on the compression knob...and which way do I turn the OTT knob + or - for the open setting? I'm just going to start with their base tune. I'm about ~150lbs with gear.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> ^^ I sent them an email and no go...but thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> I do have another question about the open setting. Which way is open on the compression knob...and which way do I turn the OTT knob + or - for the open setting? I'm just going to start with their base tune. I'm about ~150lbs with gear.


I'm sure someone with more knowledge will come along but in meantime, from recollection...

Open for both low and high compression should be counter clockwise if I recall correctly. The outer green low speed dial should have 5 settings?

OTT is a preload spring, pretty sure + means more preload.

I think I broke an OTT sleeve by winding the OTT with the fork aired up. You might want to adjust the OTT without pressure in the fork.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ok...so turn the HSC knob to the left for full open. The LSC has six clicks. 

I did read the warning on the fork leg about letting the air out to adjust the OTT. I watched their video on adjusting the OTT a few times and it was still about as clear as mud on which direction to turn the dial for a lighter weight rider.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> Ok...so turn the HSC knob to the left for full open. The LSC has six clicks. I did read the warning on the fork leg about letting the air out to adjust the OTT. I watched their video on adjusting the OTT a few times and it was still about as clear as mud on which direction to turn the dial for a lighter weight rider.


 With fork upside down it should be clockwise to add preload. I'd start with setting at the half way point. Pretty sure you have to count the rotations of the wrench, perhaps going from full counter clockwise (no load) to full clockwise full preload to get an idea of the range.

I think there was a video specifically about adjusting OTT.

Edit here-


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ok..so according to the video as a lighter rider I need less sensitivity. So turn the dial towards the minus sign.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

The LSC dial is backwards, ie clockwise is the softest setting and the window should align with the 1


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ok so I set my OTT at about 4 full rotations from the minus sign. I guess the part that confused me was thinking that the lighter you are...the more sensitivity you need...but its the opposite of that. With the air out of the fork...I kept adding sensitivity and the fork started sucking down. I'm running about 96psi of air. 

I'm a super noobercorn with this.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I recently got my diamond exchanged since the old one had developed terribly bushing play causing it to get kinda stuck in the first part of the travel.
The new one behaves kinda weird. 
It feels overly progressive, harsh and kinda dead.
I’m really feed up with this fork. 
I’m using mostly the same settings as before. 
Any suggestions what I could try?


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

cYbernation said:


> I recently got my diamond exchanged since the old one had developed terribly bushing play causing it to get kinda stuck in the first part of the travel.
> The new one behaves kinda weird.
> It feels overly progressive, harsh and kinda dead.
> I'm really feed up with this fork.
> ...


I run 10psi less than recommended for my weight.

Give it time to break in too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jdadour (Aug 6, 2019)

To perform the shim stack mod, is it required to replace the oil or top it off? or are you just able to take it out, and put it back in with no issue?

Also, per the standard mod (removing the ring/center shim and the top two shims), how does that effect the LSC and the adjustments on the LSC knob?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

racefit said:


> I run 10psi less than recommended for my weight.
> 
> Give it time to break in too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I did. I tried running the minimum for my weight and it was still too firm. I kept going down until I was able to get the 20% sag.

I rode it for the first time yesterday and I'm pretty happy with the way the fork performs. It feels really smooth and supple. I used their base tune with the exception of the air pressure. I really like the OTT. I'm using about three full turns of the OTT from least sensitive.

The Diamond also feels like it rides higher up in its travel compared to the Yari it replaced.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Good day, chaps!

This forum is a gold mine, it's helped me a lot so far. 
DVO themselves do a terrible job at replying to their emails and when they do its like they only read part of the email and barely answer anything I was asking...

Another addition to my Diamond troubles was that the LSC got stuck at 6, frozen... I sent several emails and I got only one email back and it didn't even cover how to trouble shoot it.

If this stuck LSC lever happens to you, then here is the problem I found on my fork.
If you take the damper out of the cartridge, take it apart by removing the shim stack, you'll see that the LSC port??? that increases or decreases oil flow is guided in place by a pin. This pin is screwed in, and was loose on my fork and therefore got stuck on the golden portion of the damper. (so sorry, I don't know the appropriate nomenclature for these parts)


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Hi again...

I need to ask a question here about the damper and some fine tuning help with the shim stack... 

I would greatly appreciate advice from those that know more than I do... I think I understand the crude basics of the shim stack, and I have a vague idea which parts affect the feel of the LSC and HSC, but I'm not certain.

Overall, the stock configuration for me feels adequate, but I can't help think I can get it a little smoother over the really small chatter. Ideally I would like some support when dialing the LSC to 6, like it does for me at stock, but I feel like the 1 LSC setting still proving a little hard until the forks get into the HSC mode. When I'm going fast and hard, I feel very comfortable with the HSC settings, and the fork isn't harsh, but then my HSC is usually set between open or around 8 clicks in...


What I've tried so far:

1) Removed the ring shim: For me the LSC support is less, which is fine, although LSC 6 setting is an unfortunate loss. HSC feels fine. Not much riding on this setting.

2) Ronnie's shim stack mod, removing the top two shims and the ring shim. Piston in original position.
Similar feeling as above, but HSC seems softer too. The fork is very comfortable. LSC dial feels to do virtually nothing, and the HSC dial does feel different at both extremes, and I'm happy somewhere around the middle. Differences between extremes are subtle, and I'm also arguably inexperienced to be so finely tuned to my bike. 



Am I understanding the concept correctly, that the LSC needs to overcome some force to open the HSC circuit, and that removing the ring shim effectively reduces this initial force? Also, that the green preload cap also applies a, well, preload to the shim stack that effectively has the same affect?

Basically is there a way to make the LSC setting of 0 even "lighter". And HSC a tiny bit lighter too, but not really necessary as I feel it's very comfortable in the stock configuration? Would the correct term be making it less digressive?


I'm a bit confused as to how some of the suggested modifications may translate into the feel on the bike... It would help if I could better understand how the shim stack works and where changes may translate into riding feel.

For instance, the one modification on post #637 by Techspec360; 
Where the 15mm shim is put between the 17mm and 20mm shims, and removing the 19mm and the ring shim... 

Or how removing - or was it flipping? - the preload collar would change the feel, and having just the spring contact the shims. (Can this damage the shims and does the spring line up perfectly on one shim?)

I'm feeling a bit lost and at risk of confusing myself, hehehe. 
Any suggestions? As it is, Ronnie's shim stack mod feels like I'm loosing too much LSC and would really like some support when set to 6. My fork is currently set with this configuration.


Additional info:
Weight with kit: Around 198 lb ( I was 220 6 months ago when I started with the Diamond)
travel:160mm
Air Spring: 125-130 PSI
OTT: 9 out of 11
Rebound, 9 clicks from slowest.
LSC 0
HSC: 2 full rotations from open


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

M_Zimelka said:


> Hi again...
> 
> I need to ask a question here about the damper and some fine tuning help with the shim stack...
> 
> ...


To be brutally honest some of the suggestions here haven't been dyno tested or don't have a lot of logic behind them. I would try a few changes yourself and be prepared to make several changes, including harder and softer, and go back to the starting configuration if you get lost. So source some extra 0.15 or .2mm shims and get stuck in
Removing the preload ring only is a good start though. Makes it less complicated

Also bear in mind with the lsc open the bypass is huuuuge so the shim stack isn't doing much until very high speeds!


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The theory is the spring collar is blocking the LSC oil flow path. Flipping the spring and collar position, IMO just makes the fork work how it was supposed to. It makes the LSC much softer on the "1" setting but the highest setting feels the same as before the switch... Because the highest setting completely closes the LSC port. In stock form, the LSC adjustment does nothing because the flow path is blocked either way. If you pull it apart, just look at the path the oil has to take through the LSC circuit and it becomes pretty clear the collar is blocking the flow path.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> To be brutally honest some of the suggestions here haven't been dyno tested or don't have a lot of logic behind them. I would try a few changes yourself and be prepared to make several changes, including harder and softer, and go back to the starting configuration if you get lost. So source some extra 0.15 or .2mm shims and get stuck in
> Removing the preload ring only is a good start though. Makes it less complicated
> 
> Also bear in mind with the lsc open the bypass is huuuuge so the shim stack isn't doing much until very high speeds!


Thank you!

Unfortunately, finding these shims would prove difficult in Namibia, and would probably need importing from EU or USA. Thats something for another time. Perhaps some suspension tuners in South Africa might have. Anyways. Lockdown has that option struck out.

I'm driving myself mad trying to learn more about the feel of the forks while riding, and trying to feel my way through the adjustments.

Yes, the LSC port is large, but the moment I touch the shim stack the LSC feel changes completely, so its got to have at least a little bypass through the HSC circuit???

First, I tried flipping the spring and collar. This didn't work on my damper as it doesn't quite fit and moves with resistance in the upper assembly.

I then tried removing the collar and spring, and obviously with that the HSC adjustment option went out the window and also the difference between LSC 1 and 6 was hardly noticeable.

I then tried removing just the top two (small) shims from stock config.
Then just the last top (small) shim. (not the clamping shim or whatever that's called) Both these affect LSC feel a little, especially at position 6.

I've now settled on the stock shim configuration with exception to the piston, which I've flipped. This has softened up the HSC and LSC just a tiny bit. I have less LSC support at 6 that stock, but arguably still enough. Perhaps this comes closer to what I want. Dunno 

I think I'll ride the piston flip configuration now down some chunkier high speed stuff and see if I like it.



mike156 said:


> The theory is the spring collar is blocking the LSC oil flow path. Flipping the spring and collar position, IMO just makes the fork work how it was supposed to. It makes the LSC much softer on the "1" setting but the highest setting feels the same as before the switch... Because the highest setting completely closes the LSC port. In stock form, the LSC adjustment does nothing because the flow path is blocked either way. If you pull it apart, just look at the path the oil has to take through the LSC circuit and it becomes pretty clear the collar is blocking the flow path.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'm using Motul Synthetic 2.5W oil, and 
I don't suspect the collar is providing much resistance to flow here. Unfortunately on my damper the green collar doesn't fit into the upper assembly properly, and when HSC adjuster is increased the tight fitting collar creates resistance and often doesn't come back when decreasing the adjuster again.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Look at the LSC port though and notice where it dumps oil. It's dumps it inside of that spring collar. Where can the oil go from there?

It has two places it CAN go, between the collar and the adjuster on the smaller inside clearance, or it can lift the collar and squeeze between the collar and the shims. Those are the only two places the oil can go.

The clearance between the collar ID and the adjuster was like <0.1mm, if I recall, it's quite small. Even then, I think it had to make it around a couple other pieces to make it into the other side of the basevalve. Most likely, it's lifting the collar off the shim stack a bit, adding some pressure to the top of the shim stack at the same time.

Yes, I think my collar did the same so I hit it with a little scotch Brite and that was all it took too make it move freely.

Other option would be to machine some oil holes into the side of the collar. This would probably be the best answer, if you are comfortable doing that.

Maybe something else changed. Maybe I tweaked a shim or something. But with an otherwise stock damper (ring shim in, piston faced the correct direction, etc) it had a dramatic impact on performance. It actually made the adjusters work and I would ride with the LSC on 4/5 for jump trails and 2 for rough stuff. In stock form, 1 or 5 on LSC made no difference, it was harsh no matter what setting I used. 1 after this change made it too soft to be usable.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It also seems worth pointing out that the compression assembly they used in the vital MTB review of The diamond matches what I'm saying.

https://m.vitalmtb.com/photos/featu...930/Tested-DVO-Diamond-Fork,91777/bturman,109

Image number 14 of 34 if it doesn't take you directly to. Notice shim seat is significantly shorter and doesn't block the oil flow through the LSC port. Either those were prototype parts, or they changed the design at some point.

Also, the emerald and the Sapphire uses the short seat as well. Although it might not have the same troubles either way as it's a different base valve.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Thanks Mike.

I didn't inspect if that closely, but didn't see any blindingly obvious issue, but I'll certainly take a closer look again when I have the damper out again. 

I think your idea with drilling holes in the collar is a very good idea. It would also decrease its weight and therefor the have less inertia to overcome.

I've had about enough bike tinkering for a day or two, so I'll perhaps try getting the collar to fit better next time.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

mike156 said:


> It also seems worth pointing out that the compression assembly they used in the vital MTB review of The diamond matches what I'm saying.
> 
> https://m.vitalmtb.com/photos/featu...930/Tested-DVO-Diamond-Fork,91777/bturman,109
> 
> ...


Nice find!

I'll take a look and see. Interesting stuff!


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

FWIW, the inertia was my initial thought and why I swapped it originally. I also changed the shim stack at the same time though. After seeing it worked, I tore it back apart to see if there was another way to approach it. Also I wanted to put the shim stack back to stock to see if it was the stack change or the flip of the parts making the difference. That's when it dawned on me that it was blocking the oil flow. I agree, drilling like 4-6 oil flow holes, like 1/4" diameter around the outside would probably be the best answer. I had some concern with the spring sitting on the shim stack as it's ID was the same as one of the shims OD and I could see it possibly binding up on the shim. It's also not completely flat so it could put uneven force on the shims.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

I know this is the Diamond thread, but I’m looking at the great deals DVO is running right now and torn between a used 18+ pike/lyric or a new Diamond. What’s your guys thoughts? I’m on a fox 34 now and want stronger and better rock garden feel/ small bump. My 34 has bad bushings and it only 3 years old.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, the inertia was my initial thought and why I swapped it originally. I also changed the shim stack at the same time though. After seeing it worked, I tore it back apart to see if there was another way to approach it. Also I wanted to put the shim stack back to stock to see if it was the stack change or the flip of the parts making the difference. That's when it dawned on me that it was blocking the oil flow. I agree, drilling like 4-6 oil flow holes, like 1/4" diameter around the outside would probably be the best answer. I had some concern with the spring sitting on the shim stack as it's ID was the same as one of the shims OD and I could see it possibly binding up on the shim. It's also not completely flat so it could put uneven force on the shims.


Interesting, yours must be first gen, I know they changed it at some point.

This is the latest version, with a huge gap between everything


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

desertwheeler said:


> I know this is the Diamond thread, but I'm looking at the great deals DVO is running right now and torn between a used 18+ pike/lyric or a new Diamond. What's your guys thoughts? I'm on a fox 34 now and want stronger and better rock garden feel/ small bump. My 34 has bad bushings and it only 3 years old.


Are these the Charger 2 RTC3 series of Pikes/Lyrics? I had a Charger 1 RTC3 Pike before moving to the Diamond - I was not a fan of that fork. It was pretty hyped up, but I found it pretty harsh and impossible to bottom out at recommended pressures, and overly soft at lower pressures. The basically non-existent compression adjustments did not help at all.

The Diamond is a good fork, though I wouldn't describe it as plush. I've always had issues with stichion/getting sag - when sitting on the bike in the parking lot the fork basically does not sag at all, and it is extremely difficult the compress it by pressing on the bars. That said, I can't say how much of that really affects the fork's on-trail performance.

The spring/compression adjustments on the Diamond are far better than on the Pike I had - though I am a little confused by DVO's base tune. If you want to get the most out of the fork, it sounds like reshimming the damper really helps.

At low speeds, the Diamond is a little harsh. However, when you pick up speed the fork really comes into its element. Where on the Pike I was just getting bounced around, the Diamond tracks well and remains composed. Definitely more of an aggressive fork in its base tune. However, I've heard that shim stack modifications can be made to make the fork much plusher.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Phoenix864 said:


> Are these the Charger 2 RTC3 series of Pikes/Lyrics? I had a Charger 1 RTC3 Pike before moving to the Diamond - I was not a fan of that fork. It was pretty hyped up, but I found it pretty harsh and impossible to bottom out at recommended pressures, and overly soft at lower pressures. The basically non-existent compression adjustments did not help at all.
> 
> The Diamond is a good fork, though I wouldn't describe it as plush. I've always had issues with stichion/getting sag - when sitting on the bike in the parking lot the fork basically does not sag at all, and it is extremely difficult the compress it by pressing on the bars. That said, I can't say how much of that really affects the fork's on-trail performance.
> 
> ...


How many turns OTT? Diamond's are not known for being harsh at all.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

springs said:


> How many turns OTT? Diamond's are not known for being harsh at all.


7 turns OTT, 110psi. Next time the fork gets opened up for a damper service I'm going to look into some shim stack mods. I've just never been satisfied with the plushness of the fork overall.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Phoenix864 said:


> 7 turns OTT, 110psi. Next time the fork gets opened up for a damper service I'm going to look into some shim stack mods. I've just never been satisfied with the plushness of the fork overall.


Given your pressure you must be quite light? Definitely email Ronnie for some advice on what mods to suit.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

springs said:


> Given your pressure you must be quite light? Definitely email Ronnie for some advice on what mods to suit.


170ish lb ready to ride, so kind of on the lighter side. When the time rolls around I definitely will get in touch with DVO to get some mod recommendations.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

JohnnyC7, it was a 2019 fork based on the serial number. I think the clearance was around 1mm on the shaft but I haven't had the fork for almost a year now though so couldn't say exactly how much clearance was there. Even with clearance, the oil has to make a 90 degree turn out the orfice then spread out around that clearance between the shaft and collar. It's going to have some pressure drop.

Like I said originally though, if would be sweet if somebody else tried it out. Maybe I was smoking crack. Maybe it was a placebo effect.

There seems to be a lot of people that swear the Diamond is insanely smooth. There also seems to be a number of people that say it's harsh. I feel like I've experienced both of these conditions on the Diamond. There appears to have been a change to this component at some time. Seems worth looking into.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

So the harshness is not something everybody feels? I keep hearing these forks are super smooth but some say not. I don’t mind messing with settings at all, even re valving. If I got a used Pike I’d end up putting a charger 2.1 in it and newest debonair probably.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I did my second ride with the Diamond and did not feel any "harshness"...at least not any more than a Fox 34 or a Yari. I'm still making adjustments on the fork. Think I have three full turns of the OTT + 3 clicks based on the booklet that it came with. I have the HSC wide open and have the LSC at either 1 or 2. Rebound at 12 or 14 clicks from full slow. Fork needs more tinkering.

Initially following DVO's guide for air pressure...their base numbers for my weight was way too high. I was not able to get anywhere close to the 20% sag for my fork at 130mm. I'm just under 140lbs with no gear on. I think its in the low 90 psi range right now. I have to reattach the pump to see. It loses about 4psi each time I connect and reconnect my digital pump.

What I did find combing through the older threads that there seems to be a different guide than what came with my fork.

The newer instructions (for Giant's bikes) has lower air pressures and different numbers for the OTT. The guide says 6 clicks for one full turn of the OTT...but on the setup guide from Giant...it says 5...and the max full turns for the OTT is now 11 vs 14 in the booklet that comes with the fork. I guess DVO made some changes to the damper since the insturctions originally came out?

Here is the newer version,
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf


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## jdadour (Aug 6, 2019)

RS VR6 said:


> I did my second ride with the Diamond and did not feel any "harshness"...at least not any more than a Fox 34 or a Yari. I'm still making adjustments on the fork. Think I have three full turns of the OTT based on the booklet that it came with. I'm going to tinker with the fork some more.
> 
> Initially following DVO's guide for air pressure...their base numbers for my weight was way too high. I was not able to get anywhere close to the 20% sag for my fork at 130mm. I'm just under 140lbs with no gear on. I think its in the low 90 psi range right now. I have to reattach the pump to see. It loses about 4psi each time I connect and reconnect my digital pump.
> 
> ...


Yes, I also found conflicting setup information for the Diamond on their website. The tech site shows different info than that guide you posted, heres the link:

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/setup/diamond/

When i talked to them last week about my setup, at 170lbs I told them I was running 105 psi (per what that guide says), and they said thats too low and to be around 120-125 psi per what the tech site says.

I'd give them a call and chat with them.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I'm going to give them a call. The good thing is that their HQ is about 10 mins from me. I was thinking about having them modify the shim stack for lighter riders. I should have mentioned that when they did the travel reduction for me.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Interesting, yours must be first gen, I know they changed it at some point.
> 
> This is the latest version, with a huge gap between everything
> View attachment 1324461


Mine looks like this... When everything is together, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of oil movement except for it having to take a sharp turn.

I've taken a nice long ride with the shim in stock configuration, but with the piston flipped... no thanks, it makes the LSC 1 feel weird, and offers no support at 6. HSC is also softer. I'm not going to pretend to understand this anymore :crazy: All adjustments I've made have just deteriorated the LSC feel.

Anyways. I've switched everything back to stock. Perhaps if I'm up to it I'll play around with oil viscosity, as I have a few different oils in the cupboard...

I still feel that, even thought he LSC port is large, there seems to be a huge amount of influence to LSC when tinkering with the HSC shim stack. I don't get it. Perhaps the green collar is designed to create some back pressure???

I don't see myself holding onto the forks for that long... The busing play and the lack of after sales support is irking me. I can get better after sales support from FOX, with easier to access spares too. At least considering my location.

I also adjusted the travel on my fork, and since then the spring makes a weird sound sometimes. The guide isn't cracked, and everything is greased up nicely and everything is tight. All bolts on my fork were either loctite locked or over tightened to the point where they were near impossible to open. The air shaft ring was seriously difficult to get off even with another pair of hands.

My fork is under 1 year old, and looks like its been through hell. The paint is made of cheese, and chips off at the sight of a rock or tool. My stanchions have several pinholes of silver from small stone strikes. Not very impressed and DVO doesn't seem to care.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Did you try adding HSC in? I had to add ~2 turns of HSC to make everything feel right as the fork was very soft after.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Yup...

Basically, LSC at around 6 and HSC almost at max offered some support but not much. 
For basic trail riding, LSC at 3 or 4, with HSC somewhere in the middle was ok. Anything faster felt too plush but not necessarily smoother on high frequency chatter, so to speak.

I think the default settings are so far the best, and I have no issues when going fast and going over the rough stuff... I've gone full circle it seems, hehehe


Going from LSC 1 And HSC wide open to LSC6 and HSC fully preloaded, has less pronounced change in feel than a quarter turn of my FOX 34 GRIP damper's compression dial. 
Hard to say if even comparing Diamonds against Diamonds is an objective thing to do since there may be design changes within the same line of forks...


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

What you are saying I think falls in line with what I felt. The sweet spot for me with the collar flipped was LSC 4/5 on jumps and 2/3 on normal trails with HSC at like 2 out of 4 turns. Either way, it sounds like flipping the collar made a big difference, just hard to say it's the right difference, lol.

It didn't have the support that the stock setup did though for sure. Ultimately, trying to get that support while still being plush was what made me move to a different fork. My DVO did feel pretty plush to me, however I did make another change at the same time and it might have made a lot of the difference.

The additional change I made was adding (I think) 7ml of oil to the air spring and then reduced the air pressure like 10psi. The oil acts as a volume spacer to increase progression. With the original higher pressure, I would get metal on metal bottom outs occasionally. With the oil and softer air pressure, I no longer got the harsh bottom outs. I imagine the lower air pressure was a lot of the plush feel.

Give the oil a shot. Might pair well with the firmer stock valving.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Also, in fairness, comparing one diamond to the next would be like comparing a 2014 Pike to a 2019 Pike. Year to year changes happen.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Yeah, I do feel like a more progressive air spring would be nicer, but my trail riding doesn't really call for it since I don't get close to bottoming out most of the time.

But I did at 5ml of FOX Gold into the air spring a few months back... perhaps I'll add more. 

DVO mentions to add air for mid and end stroke support, and adjust OTT for the top... I feel this isn't the magic bullet if I were riding steeper terrain, as even simple g-outs will eat through the travel far too quickly. But for trail riding it suits me fine, as I can use higher than recommended air pressure to keep me high in the travel for support and prevent diving, but have OTT to prevent the fork feeling harsh over high frequency small chattery stuff.

I think OTT on its own to be a little over rated and find the air spring could be more progressive, especially for gravity riding. My Fox 34 without Tokens is more progressive.


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Yes, except with Fox and RS, year to year models usually come with an onslaught of marketing to document the changes and convince buyers than their old forks are now redundant... DVO seems to do it silently.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Is it normal to hear squish sounds when compress my fork while the bike has been sitting upside down for some time? Is this just from the oil from the lowers or it may be something else?


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

You could have some air in your damper, which will make that sound if the forks have been inverted for long enough for the air to migrate to the bottom and then back up when you have the forks the right side up again. 

A bleed is pretty simple, although a bleeding cup makes this much easier. Some users here posted DIY bleeding cups made from cough medicine bottles that fit well.


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## Chino Farias (Jan 8, 2020)

Hey guys! one question.

I set up my OTT at 6 turns and after a few rides (maybe 4 rides) I checked the setting and found that my OTT had almost 8 turns. So basically the OTT set up changed and I didn't even touch it.

Anyone experienced the same issue? any thought about it?

Thanks!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Chino Farias said:


> Hey guys! one question.
> 
> I set up my OTT at 6 turns and after a few rides (maybe 4 rides) I checked the setting and found that my OTT had almost 8 turns. So basically the OTT set up changed and I didn't even touch it.
> 
> ...


Someone on the Pinkbike forum has the same issue. Maybe it's you and you're trying over here?
Last two pages of this thread. https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=193962&pagenum=147

Someone gave him a person to contact and said it was a matter of taking the OTT out and regressing with a very heavy grease when reassembling.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Just got my Diamond and checking it out, is the high speed compression dial extremely hard to turn on all of them? It’s far from easy to turn almost hurts my fingers trying to turn it.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

desertwheeler said:


> Just got my Diamond and checking it out, is the high speed compression dial extremely hard to turn on all of them? It's far from easy to turn almost hurts my fingers trying to turn it.


The HSC dial is the same way on mine - I expect that's just the way it is on the Diamond. I heard of DVO recommending people wear gloves to help provide some padding/better grip when turing the dial.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Mine is pretty stiff too. In DVOs video...they said you can use the LSC knob to help turn the HSC.

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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Mine was as well, taking the adjuster apart and adding some grease to the plastic piece inside helped a lot on mine.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Got my Diamond Boost last Friday. Same "issue" with my HSC dial. Called DVO, they said the indents are very faint with the new setup they're using and they "might" break in over time so that you can feel them.

They said each full rotation of the HSC dial is 6 clicks of HSC. Hope that helps.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> Mine is pretty stiff too. In DVOs video...they said you can use the LSC knob to help turn the HSC.


Yes, I do like that too


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Got the Diamond on and cant wait to ride. Initial impressions are its travel is way smoother than my 34. Initial sensitivity doesn't seem as plush yet but I've heard they need to break in a bit. I weigh 230 geared up so I'm running 135 psi to start, 10 turns OTT, 5 ish HS 1 lsc, 10 rebound. Gonna test it in the morning.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

It definitely needs some time to break in but it is silky smooth once it does! It soaks up rock gardens far better than any fork I've ridden once I got the HSC dialed in. I don't use a whole lot of OTT for my weight but it's a great feature to have for softening up small bump compliance without compromising your air pressure.


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

So I think I need to do a damper rebuild/bleed. I have had this fork for 2 seasons. Have done lower service and oil. Racing enduro. Last season it seemed pretty good until the end of the season. Not it's just firm through the entire travel. I just have neglected it too long.

Is it just me or are there not Diamond damper rebuild kits for sale anywhere?

It would actually be nice to send it in to DVO and have the pros rebuild. Anyone gone this route? Long turn around times?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

This is all that you need to do a full service for a Diamond.


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

Rngspnr said:


> This is all that you need to do a full service for a Diamond.
> View attachment 1331057
> View attachment 1331059
> View attachment 1331061


Nice. Got new seals and air spring part coming in the mail, BUT looks like everywhere (even direct at DVO) is sold out of damper end caps.

Does something internally actually wear out or is it mainly to replace that black rubber o-ring?

Bad idea to do the rest of a full service MINUS replacing that part which is not available?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

There is a seal on the inside for the damper shaft. When I serviced my fork I inspected it and it looked fine, but that is the one part that they recommend replacing when doing a damper service. I would call or email DVO and ask them if they can get you one.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

On my third ride and it’s getting better but still feels harsh on bigger hits. I’m not sure if it needs more air and les HSC. Small bumps feel good but my bike feels crazy unbalanced now with my custom tuned dpx2. 


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

just got a ripmo af and about to drop the lowers on my diamond there 3 rides old just to check oil levels and lube the fork seals with slickoleum as heard a few come dry from the factory, hoping i dont spill any oil (if its even in there) but if i do can i use spectro 5sae in place of the 7.5wt they recommend as i already have it around ? also have supergliss 100k and hot pink damper oil from dougal but thats to light first time on dvo the diamond feels promising.


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

Recently I bought a Diamond to replace my old fork. Loving it so far, and looking at getting the bits I need to do the first lower service since I'm getting a lot of riding in at the moment. 

Do the dust seals/foam rings need replacement every 50 hours?

The website says 50 hours for 'remove lowers, clean/inspect bushing and change oil' which suggests no.

The 'How to Change Oil and Seals' document suggests you change seals when you change oil.

The seals are hard to get at the moment, and most overseas vendors won't ship here to Australia for some reason. I'd be happy to clean them and just change the oil, but would like to do it by the book. 

Alternatively, are there any generic seals that fit the Diamond?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

aiv23 said:


> Recently I bought a Diamond to replace my old fork. Loving it so far, and looking at getting the bits I need to do the first lower service since I'm getting a lot of riding in at the moment.
> 
> Do the dust seals/foam rings need replacement every 50 hours?
> 
> ...


I haven't had my Diamond long enough to even do a lowers service but I wouldn't bother replacing seals at 50 hours. Some dirt usually works past seals and it's good to get that cleaned out and relubed even if you aren't due to replace anything.

Edit: Apparently I have 93 hours on mine after checking my Strava equipment stats. Seems like I'll be servicing my fork today lol


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

Thanks Dave. That was the approach I used with my old fork. I'd replace the seals every second oil change (or so) from memory.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I would replace the air spring "puck" at 2nd oil change, per maintenance schedule. $18. Mine leaked at 130(?) hours, fork would not hold air. Other than that, it was fantastic fork, it was ME skipping that maintenance schedule, not DVO problem. I will buy another Diamond at some point.


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## ookie_chow (May 7, 2020)

Does anyone experience sucking or squishing noises with their Diamond? Mine is brand new and is making noise on pretty much every rebound.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

That's a pretty normal sound for any fork as the oil gets forced through the piston/shim stack.

If there's a loss of damping there might be some air in the damping chamber from a poor factory bleed but thats pretty unlikely. Air mixing with the oil will also effect the compression damping as well as rebound.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Mine has done it since new.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

So, quick question here. After some have reported their Diamonds to have no oil, I thought I would pull mine apart to see if mine had any. Turns out the damper side had some and the air spring side had none. When I pulled it apart it looked like the air spring side had a bunch of Slickoleum or similar around the bottom bumper. Cleaned stuff up a bit, threw it back together with 35CC/25CCs of oil in their respective sides and started pumping the air spring back up. Something seemed off because I was at 85psi and it felt like it took a long time to get there. Stopped at 85psi then thought I'd pedal around in front of the house doing bunnyhops trying to see how it felt when suddenly the top main seal on the air spring side blew off! At first I thought I just didn't bleed air out of the lower but then thought that would have to be quite a bit of pressure in the lower leg to blow the main seal out. 

The air spring is now pumping air into the lower leg, great. Pulled it all back apart, put the seal back in, put 10CCs of oil in both sides and tried charging it with air, still pumping air into the lower leg and badly. I can insert a ziptie between the seal and stanchion, pump air in and listen to the air escape. 

My question is, how on earth could the air spring go from working pretty good to horribly bad in the matter of 15min to tear the lowers off, add the "proper" amount of oil and re assemble? 

Did I add too much oil? The little syringe I used was about the size of my pointer finger and had 10mL as the largest graduation. After a google search it looks like 35CCs is the same as 35mL so I did 3.5 pointer finger fills of oil in one side and 2.5 finger fills of oil in the other. Does this sound right? 

I am at a loss but I know the air spring is bad, just don't know how it got to that point from working decently.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

False alarm! I pulled it all back apart, pulled the air spring assembly out, charged it up separately of the fork and it didn't leak any air so I left about 60psi in it, re assembled the fork, put 15cc's of fluid in both sides, torqued the OTT/rebound adjusters in (while upside down), put wheels back on and cycled it and it feels normal again. A little more rattly possibly due to the lack of Slick Honey in the negative air spring assembly but good to go again. 

So how much oil is correct? DVO site says 35CC/25CC, Ronnie says 15CC in some video I saw on their youtube channel. Also was I measuring it properly with the 10mL graduated syringe?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

bdreynolds7 said:


> False alarm! I pulled it all back apart, pulled the air spring assembly out, charged it up separately of the fork and it didn't leak any air so I left about 60psi in it, re assembled the fork, put 15cc's of fluid in both sides, torqued the OTT/rebound adjusters in (while upside down), put wheels back on and cycled it and it feels normal again. A little more rattly possibly due to the lack of Slick Honey in the negative air spring assembly but good to go again.
> 
> So how much oil is correct? DVO site says 35CC/25CC, Ronnie says 15CC in some video I saw on their youtube channel. Also was I measuring it properly with the 10mL graduated syringe?


That rattly sound might be a broken OTT spring guide. Had that happen to mine.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Yeah, I wouldn't think this fork should make any rattling sounds. Mine certainly doesn't and feels great.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

The fork will also rattle if there's not enough slick honey on the OTT spring. DVO recommends heavily coating spring with slick honey.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Pedaled around this morning, no rattle. Fork is so magical it fixes itself Lol


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

I can't for the life of me open the air cartridge to change the "puck" and grease the air spring. Like I have heated the threads with a heat gun etc just like DVO says. Nice and hot but not the point where I am melting anything. Using a pin spanner I cannot get the damn cap to budge. WTF? If anyone can please respond ASAP. I have my fork totally apart and need to put it back together to go on a short trip. Thanks!


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

M_Zimelka said:


> It would seem my four month old Diamond has developed bushing play.
> Four months of gentle trail riding...
> 
> I have a list of minor annoyances with this fork, that are certainly in the shadow of how well this fork behaves on the trail, but with my initial troubles I had which I reported here too, together with this bushing play, I'm now fairly put off enough to go back to Fox.
> ...


Then get one of the new Mezzer pro batch with overworked casting, where they solved the bushing issue. This fork is the best stock fork I ever had and the new casting comes with ports to do some greasing in a while or pressure release


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

What will running different oil levels change in the fork? I have 15ccs in the air spring side and 25ccs in the damper side.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Just want to add another data point... my new Diamond (stock on my Ripmo AF) had next to no oil in the air side (just some slickoleum looking stuff here and there) and maybe 10ml in the damper side. I’m sure some of the oil was up in the fork coating surfaces, but very little drained out when I knocked the lowers loose and the foam rings seemed dry. 


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

So I have been battling this fork trying to get a good ride out of it. I weight about 230 geared up and not an aggressive rider but ride rocky terrain so I like smooth. I've tried 135 and 0-3 turns of HSC, 10 OTT and doesn't feel supportive enough and spiked on harder hits but used 95% of travel. Kept having this weird loosing control feeling when I would get deeper into the travel? I tried 130 with 7 turns OTT and 4 turns hsc not as spikey but less supportive. Gonna try 140 with 0-1 turn hsc and 13 OTT. any suggestions? I'm wondering what to do with this thing I'm kinda stumped on this.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

desertwheeler said:


> So I have been battling this fork trying to get a good ride out of it. I weight about 230 geared up and not an aggressive rider but ride rocky terrain so I like smooth. I've tried 135 and 0-3 turns of HSC, 10 OTT and doesn't feel supportive enough and spiked on harder hits but used 95% of travel. Kept having this weird loosing control feeling when I would get deeper into the travel? I tried 130 with 7 turns OTT and 4 turns hsc not as spikey but less supportive. Gonna try 140 with 0-1 turn hsc and 13 OTT. any suggestions? I'm wondering what to do with this thing I'm kinda stumped on this.


Sounds like your spring rate is to soft. Damping doesn't do much for "support" but LSC can help a bit.

I think going to 140psi is a good move but I think you should try less OTT. Start at about 4 turns from fully out with LSC on 1 and HSC open. Make sure the staunchions are clean and lubed to reduce stiction. If you still want smoother bump sensitivity try 5 turns of OTT. If you get to 8 turns I think something else is probably wrong. If the damping is still to firm you might need to mess with the shim stack or flip the piston.

What's your rebound setting? How many miles are on the fork and is it due servicing?


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Fork is new pretty much, barely 100 miles.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

desertwheeler said:


> Fork is new pretty much, barely 100 miles.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the fork feels pretty sticky to need so much OTT there might not be enough or any bath oil in the lowers to keep the bushings and seals lubed. There's been a pretty good number of reports of new diamonds not having any bath oil.

Especially at 230lbs it should need much OTT to feel nice and smooth on small bump compliance. To much OTT can force it to operate to low in the travel.

If your rebound damping is to slow it might be packing out on repeated hits which will cause a sketchy/wallowy kind of feel.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

I’ll check the bath oil today.  Heading out now or a long ride. All I have is fox 5 and 20wt tho. Rebound if anything has been set a bit fast at times.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

desertwheeler said:


> I'll check the bath oil today. Heading out now or a long ride. All I have is fox 5 and 20wt tho. Rebound if anything has been set a bit fast at times.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


20wt will be perfect. A lot of people use Fox gold 20wt. I used Belray 7wt fork oil since I have a quart laying around.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

That sketchy feeling deep in the travel can be from the front and rear not really matching. Are you using a similar amount of travel on the rear? If the rear is stiffer (damping or spring rate), it can force your weight forward on bigger hits.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

mike156 said:


> That sketchy feeling deep in the travel can be from the front and rear not really matching. Are you using a similar amount of travel on the rear? If the rear is stiffer (damping or spring rate), it can force your weight forward on bigger hits.


I'd say it's softer. Felt a lot better at 140 on my 30 mile xc ride today. Still needs a bit more progression and less HSC maybe only ran a couple clicks in it today. Think I'm at 10 OTT kept adjusting on the ride 7-8 wasn't enough 13 felt too much.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

So the rear seems to have less hsc than the front but doesn’t bottom out. The feeling i think I was getting was it was going real deep in the travel and the rear wasn’t. It didn’t feel like that today but I had one hit that was dang close to a bottom out. So still needs some adjusting.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

desertwheeler said:


> So the rear seems to have less hsc than the front but doesn't bottom out. The feeling i think I was getting was it was going real deep in the travel and the rear wasn't. It didn't feel like that today but I had one hit that was dang close to a bottom out. So still needs some adjusting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sounds like a soft spring rate. If you're riding around low in the travel like that you just need more air pressure.

Air pressure is not something to change for bottom out resistance regardless of what Fox and Rockshox try to suggest. Find a spring rate that feels good and gives you the support you need. Bottom out resistance and general suspension performance is done with damping.

You can fudge things a little like run less pressure to help it feeling softer but dial in some HSC to prevent bottoming out on bigger hits. But you'll lose support in bermed corners and G-outs which will make the front end wander around low in it's travel.

This is the smoothest fork I've ever ridden for rocky terrain and I weigh 160 geared up with 5 turns of OTT, 2 on LSC and 11 on HSC at 115psi. I'm thinking you might be lacking bath oil to keep the bushings and seals lubed forcing you to run so much OTT for small bump compliance.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Fajita Dave said:


> That sounds like a soft spring rate. If you're riding around low in the travel like that you just need more air pressure.
> 
> Air pressure is not something to change for bottom out resistance regardless of what Fox and Rockshox try to suggest. Find a spring rate that feels good and gives you the support you need. Bottom out resistance and general suspension performance is done with damping.
> 
> ...


Hopefully gonna top off the oil today and see if it helps the stickiness. The pressure felt good just the one hard hit. Completely different terrain from my home trails so I'll have to compare there. My home trails are way rockier than what I rode today.

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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

Do I really have to pull the cartridges to check the oil In The lowers or can they stay in?


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

desertwheeler said:


> Do I really have to pull the cartridges to check the oil In The lowers or can they stay in?


No you can pull the OTT and Rebound pieces out to check oil. But be aware you'll likely end up draining whats in there and putting in new stuff. It makes a mess


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> That sounds like a soft spring rate. If you're riding around low in the travel like that you just need more air pressure.
> 
> Air pressure is not something to change for bottom out resistance regardless of what Fox and Rockshox try to suggest. Find a spring rate that feels good and gives you the support you need. Bottom out resistance and general suspension performance is done with damping.
> 
> ...


Are you running Fox 20wt oil? If so, how much of it?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Are you running Fox 20wt oil? If so, how much of it?


I use Belray 7wt in the lowers just because I still have a quart of it. I also used DVO's specs of 25cc in air side and 35cc in damper side. I just serviced my diamond for the first time recently so I don't know well it will keep the bushings and seals lubed between services.

I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using Fox gold 20wt for the fork lowers. Heavier oil should stick to the staunchions a bit better for it to draw up through the bushings to keep everything lubed. As long as the bushings aren't so tight it squeezes the 20wt off.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

I’ll try the 20wt and see. I plan to take the lowers off and soak the rings and grease the backside of the wipers.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

My ride got cut way short due to my cassette falling apart on me. But the fork feels a bit stiffer now with the fox oil in it but smoother at the same time. The oil was 2 different colors as it came out of the lowers too. Didn’t feel bad but I need more miles to tell for sure.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> I use Belray 7wt in the lowers just because I still have a quart of it. I also used DVO's specs of 25cc in air side and 35cc in damper side. I just serviced my diamond for the first time recently so I don't know well it will keep the bushings and seals lubed between services.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using Fox gold 20wt for the fork lowers. Heavier oil should stick to the staunchions a bit better for it to draw up through the bushings to keep everything lubed. As long as the bushings aren't so tight it squeezes the 20wt off.


That's kind of what I'm hoping the 20wt does. I can flip my bike upside down overnight and the fork feels awesome the next day (no stiction) but after a couple days it'll go back to being sticky in the first bit of travel. I noticed when riding to the park yesterday that sitting on my seat with the dropper post down, sometimes I can push on the handlebars and the fork won't move until I stand up on the pedals and force it down. I feel like you can really chase the OTT around constantly if the upper bushings and seals aren't holding any kind of lubrication, maybe that's why I feel I can't find the "set it and forget it" tune. Or maybe I just need more oil? Only have 15CCs in the air chamber side and 25CCs in the damper.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Found the thread with people using Fox or WPL 20wt in Diamond lowers.
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/dvo-suspension-oil-list-semi-official-1054924.html


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> Found the thread with people using Fox or WPL 20wt in Diamond lowers.
> https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/dvo-suspension-oil-list-semi-official-1054924.html


Glad I ordered Fox Gold 20wt for mine!


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

25CCs of Fox Gold 20wt in my Diamond now, so far so good. Feels nice and buttery off the top all the time. Hopefully it keeps everything in there lubricated sufficiently!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bdreynolds7 said:


> 25CCs of Fox Gold 20wt in my Diamond now, so far so good. Feels nice and buttery off the top all the time. Hopefully it keeps everything in there lubricated sufficiently!


Sweet!

Did you find a good setup now too?


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

bdreynolds7 said:


> 25CCs of Fox Gold 20wt in my Diamond now, so far so good. Feels nice and buttery off the top all the time. Hopefully it keeps everything in there lubricated sufficiently!


Two weeks after I added some Gold 20wt to my bone dry Diamond and I'm still amazed by the difference. I was considering switching the fork before...

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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Did you find a good setup now too?


Going to retune again and see what I can get it to do.


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## NorthwestAir (Mar 29, 2010)

Getting ready to do a basic lowers service before summer season, and going to order fresh seals from the DVO site. But I cannot locate a place to buy the seal install tool for the DVO seals. Rockshox sells their fork seal install tool on Amazon for $21. I assume that will work as long as I get the 35mm diameter version? TIA

Also I need to buy flat faced sockets to remove the cartridges and footnuts. This is going to be an expensive job!


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I'm partial to this 35mm fork seal tool - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fork-Wiper-Seal-Installation-Press-Tools-for-32-34-35-36-40-MM-Forks/303190186951

Putting the seals in the freezer for a couple of hours before install also helps to allow them to go in easier.

If you look around on Ebay you can find a variety of 32mm flat sockets for the top caps.

I'm more of a fan of the flat socket than the flat fork top cap wrenches out there.

Maybe it was just the one I was using (top cap wrench) but it seems like you get much better control with a flat socket especially if you put a hand on top of the socket to hold it nice and flush while turning in whatever direction is needed.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I have a Fox 34 seal driver and it works with Rockshox 35mm seals too. Don't see why it won't work with DVO 35mm seals.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

The Amazon white Rockshox seal driver would also work just fine I think.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

Well, it took me approx 4 days to get through all 1174 posts (as of now) on this thread. I just installed a new DVO Diamond D1 and have 3 rides on it (5ish hours). Overall impressions coming from a 2015 Pike with a Luffkappe, I'm pretty happy. It seems a common trend here that the base recommendations are a good starting place, but most people don't end there. I ride pretty aggressively (or so I think so) and bottomed out pretty harshly last night on a road gap that I never hit bottom of my Pike on. I'm not sure where to take the tune from where I am at.

Here is where I have settings now:

Rider weight: 155lbs geared up.
PSI: 115
Rebound: 9 clicks from full fast
OTT: 5 full rotations
HSC: 2 clicks
LSC: 2 clicks

So do I add more air to prevent bottom out? Should I dial up the HSC more?

I will say this fork really shines when you're charging. The mid and end stroke support is incredible and blows my Pike away in that area. 

Would love to hear some thoughts and suggestions!

EDIT: I also read back on this thread about modifying the shim stack. I couldn't really decipher what that does to the fork's behavior. Can someone further elaborate on what that mod does to the fork?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

deno85 said:


> Well, it took me approx 4 days to get through all 1174 posts (as of now) on this thread. I just installed a new DVO Diamond D1 and have 3 rides on it (5ish hours). Overall impressions coming from a 2015 Pike with a Luffkappe, I'm pretty happy. It seems a common trend here that the base recommendations are a good starting place, but most people don't end there. I ride pretty aggressively (or so I think so) and bottomed out pretty harshly last night on a road gap that I never hit bottom of my Pike on. I'm not sure where to take the tune from where I am at.
> 
> Here is where I have settings now:
> 
> ...


I'm 160 geared up and ride aggressive too. After a recent rebuild here's where I'm at it you wanna try my setup. All clicks are from full open.
120psi
Rebound 8 clicks
OTT 4 turns
HSC 13 clicks
LSC 2 clicks

If I'm going somewhere with fast rock gardens I'll drop to 11 clicks HSC and 1 click LSC and it's perfect.

Before my rebuild I was running a little less pressure and sometimes less HSC. Since it's much smoother after the full service I upped the psi and HSC a little. I don't think you'll need to mess with the shim stack. That's mostly been people who need less HSC than full open.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> I'm 160 geared up and ride aggressive too. After a recent rebuild here's where I'm at it you wanna try my setup. All clicks are from full open.
> 120psi
> Rebound 8 clicks
> OTT 4 turns
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. Clearly I'm quite low on HSC for how I ride. I'll try a bit more PSI and HSC like your settings and see how that works.

I have all the oil and slickoleum already to do a service. Would you recommend doing that even with it being new? Do you think since you did a service that the fork feels better than when you got it? I saw some posts that people did service right away due to the excess amount of grease and wanting to put better oil in? I ended up grabbing the WPL oil that Ronnie recommends.


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

Pretty sure I broke my OTT. Rode the other day and lower speed there was no give in the fork like riding with a basketball for a front tire. Only 17psi in the front tire so that wasn't the issue. (Big tires and wide ass rims).

Today I went to check the OTT and 1/6 of a turn clockwise (not a lot of force) and it kinda popped like it was stuck. Now the OTT spins both directions infinitely. Still waiting on DVO to get back to me, but any way to "ghetto rig" this IE take out air assembly and adjust the OTT by hand that way then put back in lowers?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ouch...were you adjusting the OTT knob with air in the leg? I’ve found that the more air in the leg...the harder it is to turn the OTT dial. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

RS VR6 said:


> Ouch...were you adjusting the OTT knob with air in the leg? I've found that the more air in the leg...the harder it is to turn the OTT dial.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I had air in the fork. Realize now that was a no-no.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

deno85 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Clearly I'm quite low on HSC for how I ride. I'll try a bit more PSI and HSC like your settings and see how that works.
> 
> I have all the oil and slickoleum already to do a service. Would you recommend doing that even with it being new? Do you think since you did a service that the fork feels better than when you got it? I saw some posts that people did service right away due to the excess amount of grease and wanting to put better oil in? I ended up grabbing the WPL oil that Ronnie recommends.


Ride update! What you suggested, Fajita Dave was almost perfect. My ride this morning was the same trails I rode on my last ride so it was great to compare. The added HSC adjustments made the fork ride a little higher, felt poppier and I only blew through the travel when I needed it to. A few more clicks here and there and I think I have this thing dialed. So happy that I got this fork. Here is where I'm at now:

Rider weight: 155lbs geared up.
PSI: 115
Rebound: 9 clicks from full fast
OTT: 5 full rotations
HSC: 10 clicks
LSC: 2 clicks

I still feel a bit of stiction, but I may not have given it enough time to break in yet. I may also do an early oil change because I'm nerd and love to service my suspension


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## Whiteroom_Guardian (Jan 13, 2013)

OTT footnut broken. New one on the way. Damn.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

deno85 said:


> Ride update! What you suggested, Fajita Dave was almost perfect. My ride this morning was the same trails I rode on my last ride so it was great to compare. The added HSC adjustments made the fork ride a little higher, felt poppier and I only blew through the travel when I needed it to. A few more clicks here and there and I think I have this thing dialed. So happy that I got this fork. Here is where I'm at now:
> 
> Rider weight: 155lbs geared up.
> PSI: 115
> ...


Awesome! The harder you ride this fork the better it gets! Almost like its thanking you for flogging it.

I wouldn't service it yet. Maybe the lowers since some people have been getting theirs with no or very little bath oil. I don't see any reason to do full service until you get to the manufacture spec of 100 hours.

For the lowers I used Belray 7wt that I had laying around but I've already had a tiny bit of stiction since the thin oil doesn't stick to the stauntions and seals as well. People seem to be happy with Fox Gold 20wt but claiming it makes the LSC feel more firm but super smooth. I used WPL 2.5wt for the damping chamber and it feels great. Going to buy WPL 20wt for lower oil soon.


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

deno85 said:


> Ride update! What you suggested, Fajita Dave was almost perfect. My ride this morning was the same trails I rode on my last ride so it was great to compare. The added HSC adjustments made the fork ride a little higher, felt poppier and I only blew through the travel when I needed it to. A few more clicks here and there and I think I have this thing dialed. So happy that I got this fork. Here is where I'm at now:
> 
> Rider weight: 155lbs geared up.
> PSI: 115
> ...


Almost the same weight here too. I have about 25 hrs on my new Diamond using close to the DVO recommended settings. So far pretty happy it, but always wondering if it can be better.

So I tried your settings out today. I'm not an aggressive rider, but it was definitely an improvement from where I was before. It was more plush through the chunk (not a lot of it around here though) and when jumping to flat. It also removed more trail chatter. My local trails have a lot of erosion in berms, where previously it felt like I was getting bucked off at times, but it was a lot more planted today.

The main difference with these settings from the recommended base tune is the HSC. I always thought being at the lighter end of the spectrum that I should be close to full open (which I was), but closing it off (to 10 clicks at least) seemed to do the trick. I'll continue tweaking, but feel like this was a minor breakthrough today.

Thanks for the info deno and Dave.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

aiv23 said:


> Almost the same weight here too. I have about 25 hrs on my new Diamond using close to the DVO recommended settings. So far pretty happy it, but always wondering if it can be better.
> 
> So I tried your settings out today. I'm not an aggressive rider, but it was definitely an improvement from where I was before. It was more plush through the chunk (not a lot of it around here though) and when jumping to flat. It also removed more trail chatter. My local trails have a lot of erosion in berms, where previously it felt like I was getting bucked off at times, but it was a lot more planted today.
> 
> ...


In my experience riding to deep in the travel can cause a skipping or wollowy kind of feel especially in berms. HSC won't really give you support through high G loading like on a berm or jump face but can make a huge difference in braking bumps and other chattery stuff (which you also have in berms). If you want to keep tweaking maybe try adding 5psi but drop the HSC 2 clicks.

Once the travel goes past 50% suspension gets stiffer and there's less travel left to deal with terrain. If your setup has you pushing that deep into the travel over minor terrain it won't perform well. I think a lot of people make the mistake of setting up their suspension to soft for comfort with general riding but performance deteriorates quick when they start to push a little on downhills. Having rebound to slow can cause similar issues when the suspension packs out deep in the travel.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

I got from my LBS my fork and mechanic find 1 shim cracked any of you can find something like this?or its first time in ME 藍 ?
I will go to find the shim and will replaced it its not big deal!
Its the shim 16x1.5 I think!

its not from the shim stack!
he find it out of shim stack because he going change only the blader with new one!


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I'm a light rider (135 lbs) and not getting full travel in my diamond despite correct sag and not running any hsc . I opened the damper and my shim stack was slightly different than the tutorial I found on this thread: 












Mine didn't have a ring shim. Here is what my shim stack looked like:








I removed the shims shown on the left of the image below









Has anyone talked to DVO about proven stack mods for lighter riders? I'm going to phone Monday but could modify tonight if anyone has the info. Thanks


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Stock shim stack has been great for me so I can't help you out. I'm sure DVO will have a good setup for you to try out!


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

I have been playing with mine the whole time and think I found a nice setup. But it's weird to me. So I liked the ramp up at 137 psi sag was too little with hsc at 4 clicks no lsc. It felt good but too high in the travel. I went to 135 and it blows through the travel and has that weird feeling. So I'd crank the hsc 2.5 turns and it get like it spiked real bad on harder hits. I turned the lsc to 3 and it doesn't have that spike anymore. Feels pretty dang good now. My front end doesn't get light like it did before at 137-140psi. I just though it was interesting that turning the LSC up got rid of the spike when the HSC kicked in. I'm no suspension expert either tho. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Talked to Ronnie at DVO today. As soon as I said my Diamond damper didn’t have a ring shim, he knew I was talking about an Ibis. Must be a specific shim stack for them.

For lighter riders he said that you should keep the shims as is (don't remove any), and just flip the piston so the rounded clover shaped holes are against the shim stack.

He also said that when bleeding the damper it is important to compress the fork 10mm before you put in the bleed screw. He said that this is especially important for lighter riders.

Going to give it a rip tonight to see how it feels.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

desertwheeler said:


> I have been playing with mine the whole time and think I found a nice setup. But it's weird to me. So I liked the ramp up at 137 psi sag was too little with hsc at 4 clicks no lsc. It felt good but too high in the travel. I went to 135 and it blows through the travel and has that weird feeling. So I'd crank the hsc 2.5 turns and it get like it spiked real bad on harder hits. I turned the lsc to 3 and it doesn't have that spike anymore. Feels pretty dang good now. My front end doesn't get light like it did before at 137-140psi. I just though it was interesting that turning the LSC up got rid of the spike when the HSC kicked in. I'm no suspension expert either tho.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's pretty interesting. When I went to 15 clicks of HSC I felt like it was spiking but I didn't try LSC any firmer than 2. Somewhere between 11 to 14 clicks is perfect for me anyway but I might try LSC a little higher and see what happens.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Ripbro said:


> Talked to Ronnie at DVO today. As soon as I said my Diamond damper didn't have a ring shim, he knew I was talking about an Ibis. Must be a specific shim stack for them.
> 
> For lighter riders he said that you should keep the shims as is (don't remove any), and just flip the piston so the rounded clover shaped holes are against the shim stack.
> 
> ...


Seems like Ibis wanted a softer factory tune! Good luck with the piston flip and report back how it feels! Take your time with the bleed. It takes a while for smaller bubbles to work there way to the top.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I think I might do the piston flip too. DVO is 10 mins away...I just might have them do it of your results are favorable.

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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Ripbro said:


> He also said that when bleeding the damper it is important to compress the fork 10mm before you put in the bleed screw. He said that this is especially important for lighter riders.


this sounds really strange to me :skep:


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bostik said:


> this sounds really strange to me :skep:


Shaft takes up space as it goes up into the damping chamber. To much fluid can cause a hydro lock kind of situation or at least the rubber bladder will be maxed out and can't expand further before full travel is reached causing damping to firm up.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Fajita Dave said:


> Shaft takes up space as it goes up into the damping chamber. To much fluid can cause a hydro lock kind of situation or at least the rubber bladder will be maxed out and can't expand further before full travel is reached causing damping to firm up.


If I recall correctly, the bladder on the DVO gets compressed. Maybe that kind of hydro lock could happen if the bladder is already compressed during the bleeding.

Otherwise, I've never done that compression before closing the bleed port, I'm 65kg, and I've used full travel (Diamond boost at 160mm) a week ago (in my best 2020 save, actually).

But I've done the piston flip and removed some shims.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

The tutorial I was originally following showed a shim stack with a ring shim behind the face shim:








The shim stack in my diamond on my ripmo AF looks like this:








If anyone has kids and is bleeding their fork, a modified mega block with some electrical tape worked well for a bleed cup.








I rode the fork on some moderate trails today and it felt great. Time will tell, but so far so good.


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

Hi, anyone know where I can get the new topaz graphic file? I emailed dvo support with no success. I have tried again tho. I want to change the ghost graphics to a green and black


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

riyadh said:


> Hi, anyone know where I can get the new topaz graphic file? I emailed dvo support with no success. I have tried again tho. I want to change the ghost graphics to a green and black


Have you ever checked out Slik Graphics? They make custom DVO decals: https://www.slikgraphics.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

Yes, I have. I wanted rs coil decals to a specific size and Emma said that its not worth her time spending on designing a new graphic. Also they dont have any topaz on display on their site.
I have someone locally who can do they graphics I want. We just need the new topaz graphic. He did say that he will try and recreate it tho.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

riyadh said:


> Hi, anyone know where I can get the new topaz graphic file? I emailed dvo support with no success. I have tried again tho. I want to change the ghost graphics to a green and black


I've got some I didn't use for a recent bike build. Not sure if this is what your looking for?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bostik said:


> If I recall correctly, the bladder on the DVO gets compressed. Maybe that kind of hydro lock could happen if the bladder is already compressed during the bleeding.
> 
> Otherwise, I've never done that compression before closing the bleed port, I'm 65kg, and I've used full travel (Diamond boost at 160mm) a week ago (in my best 2020 save, actually).
> 
> But I've done the piston flip and removed some shims.


You seem to be correct the bladder does compress! I didn't pay that much attention to it when I had it apart.

Either way if there's to much fluid as the shock shaft moves up into the damping chamber there might not be enough space for the excess fluid. Depending on how much that bladder can compress. Pushing out some extra fluid might cause the bladder to expand a little at full travel. Which might make the initial stroke softer as the bladder is trying to pull oil up through the valve. Could make it better for light riders but that's just speculation on my part.


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## yeetmondubes (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi all, I have a new-ish (10-15 hours?) Diamond D1 that is buzzing when fully compressed or fully extended. The buzz kind of sounds like the tire is rubbing on something, but I’m almost certain that is not it. I sent it in to DVO and they thought it was because the internals were possibly too dry (not enough oil or grease). Got it back and rode it today and the problem is still there. I’ve previously tried tinkering a bit with settings but nothing changes. I’m 145 pounds and running 110psi... Any suggestions?


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## riyadh (Feb 13, 2015)

rockman said:


> I've got some I didn't use for a recent bike build. Not sure if this is what your looking for?
> 
> View attachment 1342471


Awesome thanks man. Got someone to do mine.


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## NorthwestAir (Mar 29, 2010)

Lowers Service question- has anyone performed a basic lowers service on their Diamond WITHOUT removing the air spring and damper cartridges? The instructions mention to remove them, but I don't understand why. It seems like it would be possible to remove lowers and whatnot while keeping the cartridges installed. TIA


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

NorthwestAir said:


> Lowers Service question- has anyone performed a basic lowers service on their Diamond WITHOUT removing the air spring and damper cartridges? The instructions mention to remove them, but I don't understand why. It seems like it would be possible to remove lowers and whatnot while keeping the cartridges installed. TIA


I just serviced my wife's diamond. Might as well take them out, clean, inspect and set aside. I guess you could remove the lowers without much issue, but reinstallation may be challenging. Another alternative is to slap the nuts with a hammer to make space, drain fluid, and flip fork to refill?? I did a seal change, so I just followed DVO's instructions which included removing the carts. It was really easy - so easy that I don't think taking a shortcut would be worth it.


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## NorthwestAir (Mar 29, 2010)

thanks for that chuckie. You are correct it seems pretty easy, I guess I am being cheap by not wanting to purchase a special 32mm socket to remove the cartridges until a full on service is needed. but yeah, might as well get on with it. thanks again


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

NorthwestAir said:


> I guess I am being cheap by not wanting to purchase a special 32mm socket


I just filed one


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

NorthwestAir said:


> Lowers Service question- has anyone performed a basic lowers service on their Diamond WITHOUT removing the air spring and damper cartridges? The instructions mention to remove them, but I don't understand why. It seems like it would be possible to remove lowers and whatnot while keeping the cartridges installed. TIA


Dropped the lowers to check oil on my diamond (only had 10ml in the damper and nothing but goo in the air spring). You don't need to remove the cartridges, just be careful when you drop the lowers to not scratch anything. Just go slow and steady.


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## desertwheeler (Sep 1, 2009)

I did mine without removing them.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

It's easier to reinstall the lowers into the seals without the damping and spring shafts in the way. Otherwise it's still good to take them for cleaning incase anything got past the seals.


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

NorthwestAir said:


> thanks for that chuckie. You are correct it seems pretty easy, I guess I am being cheap by not wanting to purchase a special 32mm socket to remove the cartridges until a full on service is needed. but yeah, might as well get on with it. thanks again


oh yea those flat sockets... I got the 6 pack from park tool a few years ago when I started working on my own forks. You might be able to source a flat spanner for 10-15 bucks - I used one at first but the sockets are superior.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Those flat sockets aren't that expensive. If you get the "Unior" brand...they are under $10. It might seem expensive for one socket...but it'll keep you from messing up the black finish on the air cap.:cornut:

The one thing I did notice is that the DVO caps are a bit taller than the Fox and Rockshox ones. In DVO's maintenance videos...I don't recall hearing Ronnie saying that you specifically need a flat ground socket.


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

RS VR6 said:


> Those flat sockets aren't that expensive. If you get the "Unior" brand...they are under $10. It might seem expensive for one socket...but it'll keep you from messing up the black finish on the air cap.:cornut:
> 
> The one thing I did notice is that the DVO caps are a bit taller than the Fox and Rockshox ones. In DVO's maintenance videos...I don't recall hearing Ronnie saying that you specifically need a flat ground socket.


I didn't need one for the bottom 18MM nuts, but the top one is needed for sure.


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## reginald (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Guys, what are the symptoms of a deflated bladder that some have mentioned?

I'm feeling a little bit like a hypochondriac with this 160 diamond fork . Its on my 2 month old ripmoAF, i dropped lowers after a few rides to verify that there was oil in there. [there was oil, i drained and refilled to spec]

All in all, it just doesn't feel agreeable to me yet, I see some rave reviews about the fork. 
i'm only feel kind of beat up after some chunky rides. I'm only moderate on the aggressiveness scale, but would expect to be using more travel on some of the poor form nose dives i've done.

at 0 psi, i can push it down to about 7mm of stanchion left. that seems to be as expected. When riding i always seem to be around 1.5-2" of travel its not using. 
i'm about 170lbs riding weight.

I started 115 psi- 4 OTT-1HSC 1 LSC, 10R from closed --still about 1.5 unused travel

I just rode at 95psi-2 OTT.-4HSC 1 LSC, 16R from closed-- i think it seemed harsher in this lower psi setting... still about 1.75" travel not used.

I'll probably try this lower PSI and back down HSC to 1 next.

Any thoughts on this? Does this sound strange enough to encourage taking it down to see if the bladder is collapsed?

thanks-
RB


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## yggi (Mar 25, 2019)

Hello.
Is anybody else here in the forum having "rebound" issues? My old Diamond (2017) works like a charm! The rebound sweetspot for mixed trail/jump/technical riding is at 12 from fully open. I really struggle with my new one (2019) though ... I ran it fully open on my Stumpjumper EVO, 
and the fork still had no "rapid recovery" after a big compression. I tried more air pressure, which made it better, but that messed up everything else. 120-125 is actually fine for me (86Kg with gear). I then sent it in for a "service" and a "tune"! Apparently, other customers were also complaining about the rebound being too slow! Now that i got it back, it feels better, but i still need to ride it max 3 clicks from fully open!!! They didnt give me details about what they did with the fork, i wasnt able to get through due to Corona ... At the moment, i run the fork with 120psi, 2-4 LSC depending on terrain, 6clicks HSC, 5 turns of OTT! Any suggestions on how i could improve the "pop" ? More OTT will probably make it more plush, but won't affect rebound (and i like to feel the terrain, too much OTT gave me confort, but lees feedback) More HSC will probably make it "dive" less, so that the rebound won't have to be that fast - this will be my next "test" ! And if it doesn't work, il will probably send it back to service for "another" tune ... Any suggestions? 

UPDATE: I checked how many clicks of "rebound" i have ... and ... there are only 11 clicks in total ... voilà! Haeh? Why? Now i need to find out if its because of the "tune" ... or if anything else is "broken" ... There should be around 20 clicks, i have 24 clicks on my old Diamond!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

yggi said:


> Hello.
> Is anybody else here in the forum having "rebound" issues? My old Diamond (2017) works like a charm! The rebound sweetspot for mixed trail/jump/technical riding is at 12 from fully open. I really struggle with my new one (2019) though ... I ran it fully open on my Stumpjumper EVO,
> and the fork still had no "rapid recovery" after a big compression. I tried more air pressure, which made it better, but that messed up everything else. 120-125 is actually fine for me (86Kg with gear). I then sent it in for a "service" and a "tune"! Apparently, other customers were also complaining about the rebound being too slow! Now that i got it back, it feels better, but i still need to ride it max 3 clicks from fully open!!! They didnt give me details about what they did with the fork, i wasnt able to get through due to Corona ... At the moment, i run the fork with 120psi, 2-4 LSC depending on terrain, 6clicks HSC, 5 turns of OTT! Any suggestions on how i could improve the "pop" ? More OTT will probably make it more plush, but won't affect rebound (and i like to feel the terrain, too much OTT gave me confort, but lees feedback) More HSC will probably make it "dive" less, so that the rebound won't have to be that fast - this will be my next "test" ! And if it doesn't work, il will probably send it back to service for "another" tune ... I hope my text is not too confusing, i need to work on my english skills ;-) Any suggestions? Help


My Diamond is 2018 so not sure if they changed anything for 2019. I'm thinking you don't have a rebound issue but you need higher psi. I'm 72kg and run 120psi. With to soft of a spring (low psi) it can have a similar feel as slow rebound. Try 130psi and 1 click lower on LSC than you normally would. Let us know how it works out!

HSC won't fix fork dive, shaft speeds for fork dive are to slow to open up the HSC valving. The fix for fork dive is higher psi. More LSC can help a little.

Your English is good!


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## yggi (Mar 25, 2019)

Thx for the tip! (86Kg was with full gear & water, i weigh around 78Kg) I could try 125/130 with a little more OTT ... hmm 

BTW, I just wrote a small UPDATE: i checked total clicks, and i actually only have 11 clicks of rebound in total ... now i have to find out why - if it is because of the "tune" - or because something is off/broken ???


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

yggi said:


> Thx for the tip! (86Kg was with full gear & water, i weigh around 78Kg) I could try 125/130 with a little more OTT ... hmm
> 
> BTW, I just wrote a small UPDATE: i checked total clicks, and i actually only have 11 clicks of rebound in total ... now i have to find out why - if it is because of the "tune" - or because something is off/broken ???


That could definitely be your problem. Mine has 24 clicks. I typically have it set 8 from full open.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

reginald said:


> Hi Guys, what are the symptoms of a deflated bladder that some have mentioned?
> 
> I'm feeling a little bit like a hypochondriac with this 160 diamond fork . Its on my 2 month old ripmoAF, i dropped lowers after a few rides to verify that there was oil in there. [there was oil, i drained and refilled to spec]
> 
> ...


I would open up the damper and see if the bladder is compressed, mine was slightly. The diamond has a specific shims stack for Ibis that is different from stock. Ronnie said that if I wasn't getting full travel, to flip the piston and try running a little less pressure, but watch to ensure your fork isn't sucking down. He didn't recommend removing shims. I like the fork more after doing the flip, and I use more travel. I'm only 135lbs, run it at 85 psi, no OTT, no HSC, and 1 LSC.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

reginald said:


> Hi Guys, what are the symptoms of a deflated bladder that some have mentioned?
> 
> I'm feeling a little bit like a hypochondriac with this 160 diamond fork . Its on my 2 month old ripmoAF, i dropped lowers after a few rides to verify that there was oil in there. [there was oil, i drained and refilled to spec]
> 
> ...


i had a similar experience like yourself, im 165lb and found at 110psi 7 ott no lsc or hsc rebound smack in the middle the fork was OK but over small braking bumps and roots it beat me up abit plus i didnt have enough mid stroke support, i contacted the dvo rep here in NZ and he said try 130 psi max OTT honestly feels so much better, still tinkering with it but i feel if the ott is soft enough it tends to beat you up abit plus once your over 120psi or something you can run max ott maybe give it a shot worked for me.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

Also if you wind the ott to max let all the air out first! I'm finding the fork better in the current set up better but still wanting more mid stroke support today I cranked one full rotation of hsc and left lsc off and hasn't made much difference, going to try open up the fork and inject 5cc of extra oil on the air side to create progression like a token would. But seriously do try more air max ott I've found it much better


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Doesn’t max OTT suck the fork down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> Doesn't max OTT suck the fork down?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I thought but apparently after a certain psi max ott is OK I think it was around 115psi 120 but I'm not entirely sure


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## Canadmos (Aug 1, 2005)

I seem to be experiencing a top clunk on my Diamond, with the air pressure up around 140psi.

Is there any way to reduce it? As long as the front wheel is tracking the ground, I can't feel it. But yank on the bars, hope around or do a manual to get the front wheel over a log or something and I can feel it clunk.

With that high of pressure in the fork, the rebound doesn't seem to slow down much at all if I close the dial all the way. Does that point to a problem?


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## NorthwestAir (Mar 29, 2010)

Canadmos said:


> I seem to be experiencing a top clunk on my Diamond, with the air pressure up around 140psi.
> 
> Is there any way to reduce it? As long as the front wheel is tracking the ground, I can't feel it. But yank on the bars, hope around or do a manual to get the front wheel over a log or something and I can feel it clunk.
> 
> With that high of pressure in the fork, the rebound doesn't seem to slow down much at all if I close the dial all the way. Does that point to a problem?


when I first got my diamond (slightly used from a buddy), i noticed the same sensation. i was most noticeable when just pressing down on the bars from a stand still, or riding around the driveway. it seemed to fade away when on trails, oddly. Since then, my fork settings have changed so much, and I don't notice the top out sensation at all! I am 205 pounds, running 150 psi, 8-ish turns of OTT, 6 clicks of HSC, 2 clicks of LSC, and rebound is nearly fully closed (odd, but i like it this way). Not to say that nothing is wrong with your fork, maybe it needs service, but just sharing my experience, which has improved over time, oddly.


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## ookie_chow (May 7, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> I'm 160 geared up and ride aggressive too. After a recent rebuild here's where I'm at it you wanna try my setup. All clicks are from full open.
> 120psi
> Rebound 8 clicks
> OTT 4 turns
> ...


The HSC you're running surprises me, since DVO recommends like 2 clicks for your weight. Wouldnt this much HSC just prevent you being able to get full travel? Also, your 13 clicks are rotating the knob clockwise, right??


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## Canadmos (Aug 1, 2005)

NorthwestAir said:


> when I first got my diamond (slightly used from a buddy), i noticed the same sensation. i was most noticeable when just pressing down on the bars from a stand still, or riding around the driveway. it seemed to fade away when on trails, oddly. Since then, my fork settings have changed so much, and I don't notice the top out sensation at all! I am 205 pounds, running 150 psi, 8-ish turns of OTT, 6 clicks of HSC, 2 clicks of LSC, and rebound is nearly fully closed (odd, but i like it this way). Not to say that nothing is wrong with your fork, maybe it needs service, but just sharing my experience, which has improved over time, oddly.


I think it might have been my shock pump.

I actually just got a new Topaz in the mail, and there seems to be a 40-50psi difference in the pump that came with the new shock and my own. So I'm guessing the Diamond had way too much pressure in it.

I pumped it up to 140 according to the pump that came with the Topaz and while I could feel it topping out a bit, it was no where like how it was.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

ookie_chow said:


> The HSC you're running surprises me, since DVO recommends like 2 clicks for your weight. Wouldnt this much HSC just prevent you being able to get full travel? Also, your 13 clicks are rotating the knob clockwise, right??


13 clicks from full open so yes clockwise. Sometimes drop to 11 for one place I ride due to high speed rock gardens. Also riding a little bit higher psi at 120. Yes, I use all of the 160mm travel I have and still 160 to 162Lbs geared up.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I spoke to Ronnie about not getting full travel. He actually told me to run higher air pressures at around 120. I'm 142lbs before gear. My fork is set at 130mm on an Evil Following. Currently at about 96psi...no HSC and 2 on the LSC. I think I have my rebound set at 3 past their recommended setting. Three full rotations of the OTT. I'm really thinking about flipping the piston in the damper.


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## ookie_chow (May 7, 2020)

RS VR6 said:


> I spoke to Ronnie about not getting full travel. He actually told me to run higher air pressures at around 120. I'm 142lbs before gear. My fork is set at 130mm on an Evil Following. Currently at about 96psi...no HSC and 2 on the LSC. I think I have my rebound set at 3 past their recommended setting. Three full rotations of the OTT. I'm really thinking about flipping the piston in the damper.


Yeah I'm in a similar boat. Need to play with adjustments more. I'm 160 lb running 115 psi and down to 0 HSC. But the sag is perfect (32mm) at that pressure. Are you getting good sag at 120 psi?


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

RS VR6 said:


> I spoke to Ronnie about not getting full travel. He actually told me to run higher air pressures at around 120. I'm 142lbs before gear. My fork is set at 130mm on an Evil Following. Currently at about 96psi...no HSC and 2 on the LSC. I think I have my rebound set at 3 past their recommended setting. Three full rotations of the OTT. I'm really thinking about flipping the piston in the damper.


Did he say why to run higher pressure? It would allow you to run more OTT but you wouldn't have much sag. Im 135lbs before gear and have a 160 diamond and run 85 psi, 1 HSC, 1 LSC with a flipped piston. The piston definitely made the suspension softer and more compliant at low speed. However I did a small jump and landed a bit hard and blew through the travel and it bottomed with a clunk. Made me wonder if I should run more HSC, flip the piston back or run a bit higher pressure. Still don't have it figured out.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

It was a pretty quick phone call and I didn't ask why...but he said he is the same weight as me. I set my air pressure by sag...which is about 24mm for a 130mm fork. He did mention that if I am having issues getting full travel I can bring the fork in and they can do something for me.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

I'm 145ish geared up. Have a new Diamond on my v3 5010 set at 150mm. I have it set to ~118psi, 10 clicks of rebound, 1 turn of OTT, 6 clicks of HSC and ride on LSC 1 for trails/3 for jumps. Fork feels great. Try not worrying about SAG #'s.


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## amillion3 (Aug 16, 2007)

DVO Diamond 160mm on a Ripmo AF.

Pulled off the lowers to check/add oil. Had maybe 8-10ml in the damper and basically none in the air side (2ml max). Pulled uppers all the way out to look inside, nothing seemed unusual. 

Added Fox 20wt per specs (25ml air / 35ml damper) and reassembled. Shame on me, I assembled the whole bike before testing all the adjustments worked properly. OTT, HSC, LSC and air pressure all worked normal. 

The rebound knob won't budge, either way. Any ideas what to check? I'll call DVO on Monday if I can't figure it out.

I really didn't want to do this service in the first place, it's brand new, with maybe 8 miles on it. Hopefully I didn't shoot myself in my foot trying to service it myself. 

On the plus side, it seems to ride much better with enough oil in it.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

It is a bit of a pain but what if you remove the lowers and insert the rebound adjuster in the leg (damper side) and see if that makes a difference?

The idea being that this isolates the lowers connection as I'm thinking it might be that the rebound is too far open or closed and hard to turn to get it started.

If the adjuster isn't in fully the rebound won't turn also which the removal would test.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

By leg I mean the damper cartridge, need more coffee...


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

amillion3 said:


> DVO Diamond 160mm on a Ripmo AF.
> 
> Pulled off the lowers to check/add oil. Had maybe 8-10ml in the damper and basically none in the air side (2ml max). Pulled uppers all the way out to look inside, nothing seemed unusual.
> 
> ...


From another thread:

Word of caution if you drop the lowers... I bought some Fox Gold and dropped the lowers on three bikes and replaced them all within the new oil. Had about 10ml stock in each leg of Diamond. When I tightened everything up the rebound was frozen. I loosened, retightened and still stuck. 

Long story short, after several calls to DVO I am now sending my fork in. Apparently the needle inside the rebound cartridge can stick when tightening and if you cant get it loose by inserting a 4mm Allen key into the leg you are screwed. I was told you need to hand tighten the foot bolt and then make sure the rebound knob turns freely before torquing to spec. Makes sense, but I didn't know this and didn't see it in the DVO oil change directions either, so heads up if you are planning to drop the lowers as something that seems so simple can cause a big issue


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Ripbro said:


> From another thread:
> 
> Word of caution if you drop the lowers... I bought some Fox Gold and dropped the lowers on three bikes and replaced them all within the new oil. Had about 10ml stock in each leg of Diamond. When I tightened everything up the rebound was frozen. I loosened, retightened and still stuck.
> 
> Long story short, after several calls to DVO I am now sending my fork in. Apparently the needle inside the rebound cartridge can stick when tightening and if you cant get it loose by inserting a 4mm Allen key into the leg you are screwed. I was told you need to hand tighten the foot bolt and then make sure the rebound knob turns freely before torquing to spec. Makes sense, but I didn't know this and didn't see it in the DVO oil change directions either, so heads up if you are planning to drop the lowers as something that seems so simple can cause a big issue


This happened to me too. Torque value for that nut was like 25nm in the manual I had. Guess it was printed wrong, should be 10 or something.


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## amillion3 (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks SilentG. I tried that, didn't seem to make a difference. I also had little motivation to go work in the garage, as the heat index is over 100 degrees here in Nashville TN! :eekster:

I think I am here now. Seems like I didn't tighten/check in the proper order. I'll call DVO tomorrow and likely send this off to them.

Thanks for the quick replies, I do appreciate that!



Ripbro said:


> From another thread:
> 
> Long story short, after several calls to DVO I am now sending my fork in. Apparently the needle inside the rebound cartridge can stick when tightening and if you cant get it loose by inserting a 4mm Allen key into the leg you are screwed. I was told you need to hand tighten the foot bolt and then make sure the rebound knob turns freely before torquing to spec. Makes sense, but I didn't know this and didn't see it in the DVO oil change directions either, so heads up if you are planning to drop the lowers as something that seems so simple can cause a big issue


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## Softsand (Mar 21, 2020)

*Army Green Diamonds*

Hi. I have picked up a lightly used Diamond fork originally off a Intense Special edition that seemed to have been 2017 or 2018.

This has 150mm travel. The latest forks are adjustable from 150 to 170. Anyone know if these older forks are the same ?

If nor, can I change it ?


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

Softsand said:


> Hi. I have picked up a lightly used Diamond fork originally off a Intense Special edition that seemed to have been 2017 or 2018.
> 
> This has 150mm travel. The latest forks are adjustable from 150 to 170. Anyone know if these older forks are the same ?
> 
> If nor, can I change it ?


The Diamond non-boost fork travel can be configured to 140mm, 150mm and 160mm.

The Diamond Boost 27.5 version has a minimum travel of 140mm's, and a max travel of 170mm's. The Diamond Boost 29 version has a minimum travel of 130mm's and a max travel of 160mm's.

Info taken from dvo site


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Hi all, very often I remove the wheel from my DVO Diamond boost to load the bike in the car. 
I am not very satisfied with the quick release of the thru axle. I've even considered to change it with an axle without QR but it doesn't exist for the Diamond. Modify it doesn't seem easy or feasible at all. 
It has the problem I've always had with similar QR design, it's too exposed to the dirt and it gets stuck. 
Lubrication doesn't seem to help and maybe it's even worsening. It's even not really easy to clean.
Back in the days Shimano QR where the only I really liked. But now I don't have an alternative for a fork which I really like, otherwise.
How do you like it? Have you got some tips? Better lubricate or not? Using what?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bostik said:


> Hi all, very often I remove the wheel from my DVO Diamond boost to load the bike in the car.
> I am not very satisfied with the quick release of the thru axle. I've even considered to change it with an axle without QR but it doesn't exist for the Diamond. Modify it doesn't seem easy or feasible at all.
> It has the problem I've always had with similar QR design, it's too exposed to the dirt and it gets stuck.
> Lubrication doesn't seem to help and maybe it's even worsening. It's even not really easy to clean.
> ...


They do make bolted axle for the Diamond boost. 
https://dvosuspension.com/product/bolted-axle/

I have the same issue with my QR (non-boost Diamond). I get the tension set right with the QR lubed but it gets hard to open or close the lever after a few rides. I just wipe it down and put a really thin coat of chain lube on it when it gets tight.

If I had the option to use the bolted axle I'd probably just leave the wrench in my car and use that.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Fajita Dave said:


> They do make bolted axle for the Diamond boost.
> https://dvosuspension.com/product/bolted-axle/


thanks, I didn't found it in the past!

now I just have to find a shop that sells it in Europe


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> View attachment 985130
> 
> 
> Max: Yep, I've got your name on a black/27.5"


Can anyone confirm the actual measured weight of a Diamond D1 boost 29? The picture above is of an older non-boost 27.5 model at 4.83 lbs. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the weight of the current model. I might need to buy a scale just to do this! I want to compare it with the 36 and Lyrik. Thanks guys!


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

sfr4dr said:


> Can anyone confirm the actual measured weight of a Diamond D1 boost 29? The picture above is of an older non-boost 27.5 model. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the weight of the current model. I might need to buy a scale just to do this! I want to compare it with the 36 and Lyrik. Thanks guys!


Should be around 2150g - PB found the 27.5 version to weight 2104g (listed 2100g), so I would guess the listed 29er weight is pretty accurate.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

27.5 Boost on all three

2019 Diamond D1








2018 Lyrik w/debonair upgrade and DSD Runt
HC97 Damper 








Avy damper


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## amillion3 (Aug 16, 2007)

amillion3 said:


> I think I am here now. Seems like I didn't tighten/check in the proper order. I'll call DVO tomorrow and likely send this off to them.


Just following up on this.

Seems like it was in fact, user error on my part. Talked with Rob at DVO and he was understanding and told me to ship it to him. He had it back in the mail 2 days after getting it. Very satisfied with the customer service from DVO on this matter. :thumbsup:

Installed it last night and it certainly rides more like I expected it to from the start.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

amillion3 said:


> Just following up on this.
> 
> Seems like it was in fact, user error on my part. Talked with Rob at DVO and he was understanding and told me to ship it to him. He had it back in the mail 2 days after getting it. Very satisfied with the customer service from DVO on this matter. :thumbsup:
> 
> Installed it last night and it certainly rides more like I expected it to from the start.


What exactly was the user error if you don't mind me asking? Did the rebound adjuster tighten when you tightened the nuts for the lowers?


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## amillion3 (Aug 16, 2007)

I think that was it. It appears to be the same/similar issue that kragu and PNWbike ran into.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

mike156 said:


> 27.5 Boost on all three
> 
> 2019 Diamond D1
> View attachment 1352911
> ...


Interesting. Per Rockshox, the Lyrik should be about 2005g with the stock damper so that's pretty close to your 2084g with a different damper. Did you ever weigh it with the stock damper? At 2336g for the Diamond, that puts it about 0.73 lbs heavier than the Lyrik, which is interesting for sure! Thanks for the info.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

There is a DSD Runt on there as well as a 180 to 203 caliper adapter. The diamond doesn't have the brake adapter. The Runt is 104g vs 21g for the stock cap. The adapter and hardware is 17g.

Didn't find a picture of the stock setup, but with the HC97, no adapter, and the stock air cap, it would be 1988g. Steerer cut to like 6-3/4" I think.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Good to know. That's a full 348g or 0.77 lbs difference. Thanks a ton!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The Diamond also has the fender and fender hardware if were counting every part.:cornut:

There doesn't seem to be much third party support for DVO forks. Is it that there isn't enough DVO forks out there...or do they not take well to third party mods...or both?


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

A few questions regarding my diamond 160mm. My ott adjuster appears to be tightening by itself as I ride. I am 135lbs and have my OTT fully backed off, but after a few rides I have 5 or 6 rotations. I have flipped the piston, run 1 LSC and 1 turn of HSC, pressure 85 psi. I looked through this thread and have seen this mentioned however I couldn’t find the fix.

Also occasionally on larger high speed hits it sounds (and feels) like my fork has bottomed out but I still have about an inch exposed between the green travel indicator and the top of the stanchion. 

any insights are greatly appreciated


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## Stickyface (Jun 11, 2018)

I havent read through any of this. I have a diamond. I freaking hate it. It has no small bump, so chattery, and still bottoms out. I am a bit drunk right now and just want to find a way to make this work for me. I read another person talking about how they love their diamond. What am I doing wrong? I am on a ripmo af, weigh 160lbs so run it at about 125 psi considering gear and water on the back, 2 click hsc and 1 lsc. Rebound ive expiremented wide open (from other ripmo ppl) and up to 8 clicks. I ride a lot of park type stuff with big jumps so I need the support but just riding a transfer trail my arms are chattering off. I've compared videos from my riding to others and my bars are chattering so much more. I'll delete if I'm too stupid right now to ask for legitimate help but, Anything is appreciated. Love my topaz btw. Lol.

Edit. I've run from zero to 8 turns of ott. I feel like ott makes the initial stiction so so so bad. I have to try to break it loose.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Stickyface said:


> I havent read through any of this. I have a diamond. I freaking hate it. It has no small bump, so chattery, and still bottoms out. I am a bit drunk right now and just want to find a way to make this work for me. I read another person talking about how they love their diamond. What am I doing wrong? I am on a ripmo af, weigh 160lbs so run it at about 125 psi considering gear and water on the back, 2 click hsc and 1 lsc. Rebound ive expiremented wide open (from other ripmo ppl) and up to 8 clicks. I ride a lot of park type stuff with big jumps so I need the support but just riding a transfer trail my arms are chattering off. I've compared videos from my riding to others and my bars are chattering so much more. I'll delete if I'm too stupid right now to ask for legitimate help but, Anything is appreciated. Love my topaz btw. Lol.
> 
> Edit. I've run from zero to 8 turns of ott. I feel like ott makes the initial stiction so so so bad. I have to try to break it loose.
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I'd start by maxing out the OTT.... but it sounds like you might want to skip straight to calling DVO. Pretty sure they will help get things sorted.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I second calling DVO. Probably due for a lowers service. Even if yours is new there have been Diamonds coming with little to no oil in the fork lowers which will make for a harsh ride.

For park riding you'll probably want to be between 10 to 15 clicks of HSC. For jump lines LSC on 3 or 4 is good and helps you pump the transitions to carry more speed. Of course this is after the chattery issue is fixed.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

125psi is pretty high for 160lbs. I think that's what I was running and I'm 200lbs.

Add 7-10ml of oil to the air spring. This works the same as adding tokens to other forks and increases progression (bottom out resistance) to the fork. Initially I had to run around 135psi and was still getting hard bottom outs. After adding the oil, I was able to drop to 125psi but not bottom out. I'd also look at a lowers service to make sure everything is well lubed.

With the oil, you'll probably want to start about 10psi lower. Adjust the OTT until the fork starts sucking into the travel, then back it off a half turn or so. Should make it have almost zero initial breakaway.

I've also put a bunch of stuff in this thread about the damper side. I went from riding it with minimum HSC and 1 on LSC to 2-3 turns of HSC and 3-5 on the LSC after the changes I made. 

Its a bit more work to get into the damper though and then bleed it. I'd try the lowers service and oil on the air spring first.


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## Stickyface (Jun 11, 2018)

I like the idea about adding oil as a token. The reason I run a bit more pressure is from bottom outs.I have serviced the lowers twice, once checking the bladder to see if it was sucked in too. They were bone dry in the beginning.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Stickyface (Jun 11, 2018)

EatsDirt said:


> I'd start by maxing out the OTT.... but it sounds like you might want to skip straight to calling DVO. Pretty sure they will help get things sorted.


I did try the max ott once. For some reason it always feels more stiff off the top to me. Like the stiction to get it moving increases with more ott.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Stickyface said:


> I did try the max ott once. For some reason it always feels more stiff off the top to me. Like the stiction to get it moving increases with more ott.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Have you taken the air side apart to make sure nothings wrong with the OTT spring or adjuster? What's your rebound set to? I remember seeing someone have an issue where the rebound adjuster wouldn't come out the last 10 clicks after he did a lower service causing a harsh ride from packing out.

If you mess with it yourself it's probably best place to start with removing both air and damper cartridges but leave the lowers on the staunchions. If they aren't sliding smooth and freely than friction is the problem. Check for excess play and binding in the bushings. After that check out the air side is working smoothly and nothing is wrong with the OTT. If you still don't find an issue there might be a damaged shim in the damper.

125psi sounds about right for aggressive riding. I'm 160 geared up and typically run 118. Had to bump it up to 122 at the downhill park last week with an extra click of HSC to stop bottoming.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Fajita, you running any oil in the spring side?

Increasing the OTT should definitely make the initial breakaway and about the first 1/4 travel softer.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

mike156 said:


> Fajita, you running any oil in the spring side?
> 
> Increasing the OTT should definitely make the initial breakaway and about the first 1/4 travel softer.


I used a thin coat of slickoleum in the spring side rather than the 5cc of oil DVO says to use. Not sure how it will work out long term but figured it shouldn't be much different than the Topaz air piston.


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## Stickyface (Jun 11, 2018)

Fajita Dave said:


> Have you taken the air side apart to make sure nothings wrong with the OTT spring or adjuster? What's your rebound set to? I remember seeing someone have an issue where the rebound adjuster wouldn't come out the last 10 clicks after he did a lower service causing a harsh ride from packing out.
> 
> If you mess with it yourself it's probably best place to start with removing both air and damper cartridges but leave the lowers on the staunchions. If they aren't sliding smooth and freely than friction is the problem. Check for excess play and binding in the bushings. After that check out the air side is working smoothly and nothing is wrong with the OTT. If you still don't find an issue there might be a damaged shim in the damper.
> 
> 125psi sounds about right for aggressive riding. I'm 160 geared up and typically run 118. Had to bump it up to 122 at the downhill park last week with an extra click of HSC to stop bottoming.


I'm just not confident enough to really analyze what's going on, I think. Every time I even service the lowers I have two little kids running around the garage making it harder. Maybe ill just drop it off somewhere after a fall. Lol.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The oil is more to take up space then anything. 5-10cc helps with the bottom out. The DVO setup makes for a pretty linear spring. Might be worth a try if you are having bottom out issues even when the air spring is supportive every where else. 

I agree, without the oil, I feel like I would have had to run 145-150psi to avoid hard bottom outs, which was way too firm every where else.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

mike156 said:


> The oil is more to take up space then anything. 5-10cc helps with the bottom out. The DVO setup makes for a pretty linear spring. Might be worth a try if you are having bottom out issues even when the air spring is supportive every where else.
> 
> I agree, without the oil, I feel like I would have had to run 145-150psi to avoid hard bottom outs, which was way too firm every where else.


I'm not sure how putting oil in the bottom of the air cartridge under the piston would help with bottom out resistance? I was having some bottoming issues at the bike park. My normal trails don't have so many drops and jumps with hard hits. The linear action is excellent on my typical trail rides. I'm due for a lower service soon so I'll put the 5cc of oil in the air cartridge to see how it compares.

Edit: Definitely had a dumb moment there when I did my full service haha! The oil will be on top of the piston so yeah that will reduce air volume and increase spring progression for sure. That explains my bottoming issue at the park.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

mike156 said:


> 27.5 Boost on all three
> 
> 2019 Diamond D1
> View attachment 1352911
> ...


Just curious, what are your thoughts on your modified Lyrik vs the stock DVO? Ride quality, suppleness, etc. Thanks!


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Stock, the diamond had great support in corners but was pretty harsh in chattery terrain. It would also bottom out very harshly on hard hits despite being very firm. That was with LSC on 1 and HSC full soft.

I covered it earlier in this thread, but after I flipped the HSC spring and seat, added 7cc of oil to the spring, and dropped air pressure some it made the fork WAY softer but stopped the bottoming. After that, running on like 2 turns of HSC and then 3-4 on LSC felt pretty great. It was still down a bit on the support in corners compared to stock though.

Compared to that, the modified Lyrik matches the stock DVO support in corners but isn't harsh in chattery stuff. Its still pretty firm though. Its also lighter.

I'm also trying out the Mezzer Pro, when ever I get around to putting it on.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't had many issues with the Diamond's ride quality overall. As mine is currently setup, it's not quite as plush as my Lyrik demos. Diamonds have some bushing play. I've had two and it can be felt while moving the bike around but can't be felt on the trail. I know a certain amount of play is designed into all forks so not really concerned about it. Also, it's a bit heavier. I've demo'd a few bikes with 2018 and 19 Lyriks. They were good and very supple over chatter, easier on the wrists. I did experience some diving but not much time went into the demo setup. I haven't been on a 2020 Ultimate with the updated damper and air spring but am really considering getting one for the above reasons. Any thoughts on the Diamond vs 2021 Lyrik Ultimate?


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I feel like the diamond is behind. The Onyx SC though might be a more interesting comparison. I think the Onyx is actually lighter than the Diamond, while also being stiffer and having all the other features of the diamond?

I'm hopeful the Mezzer makes the Lyrik irrelevant though...

If it can match the performance of my current fork, I'll be super happy. It is 150g lighter, has a built in fender, and will be about $450 cheaper. Matching the performance though is the only way I'll be keeping it.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Oh man, getting into the other brands, Manitiou, Formula, Marzocchi, MRP, etc would get super confusing for me, especially without some demos! I'm sure there's some good alternatives to the big 2, especially when you dive into the aftermarket mods to the air chamber, damper or coil conversions. I don't do well when deciding from that many options, especially when I haven't researched them at all yet! It sounds like you've really dug into it! The Mezzer, if stiffer, lighter and can match the ride quality of a Lyrik....... now that's interesting! Some people have even told me to get a take-off Yari for dirt cheap then mod it out.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

*Ripmo Tune*

Anybody her know if the Ripmo AF forks have a different (lighter) compression tune than the regular forks? I've bought two Diamonds, one off of a Ripmo AF and the other wasn't. Long story short, I am running significantly lower pressure & more OTT on the non-RipmoAF diamond to get near the same travel usage, and I think I'd like a lighter compression tune with higher spring rate. Thanks in advance.


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## Stickyface (Jun 11, 2018)

This might make sense with their "traction tune" stuff. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> Anybody her know if the Ripmo AF forks have a different (lighter) compression tune than the regular forks? I've bought two Diamonds, one off of a Ripmo AF and the other wasn't. Long story short, I am running significantly lower pressure & more OTT on the non-RipmoAF diamond to get near the same travel usage, and I think I'd like a lighter compression tune with higher spring rate. Thanks in advance.


I believe Ripmo does use a lighter tune on the Diamond.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Man this is the second time this has happened. Decided to pull the Diamond apart last night and soak the felts in 20wt Fox Gold. Did all that, added 30cc's of the same oil in the lowers, put the OTT and rebound adjusters back on, went to pressurize the air chamber and it was pressurizing the lower leg! Got to 100psi and the air side main seal blew out. How on earth can you get into a situation where the lower is getting pressurized? Makes no sense. I torqued everything down after I was done adding oil just like the manual states and can think of no logical reason why the lower would pressurize. :madman:


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> Anybody her know if the Ripmo AF forks have a different (lighter) compression tune than the regular forks? I've bought two Diamonds, one off of a Ripmo AF and the other wasn't. Long story short, I am running significantly lower pressure & more OTT on the non-RipmoAF diamond to get near the same travel usage, and I think I'd like a lighter compression tune with higher spring rate. Thanks in advance.


Does the Ripmo come with a manual? I ask that because Giant also uses DVO forks. The setup guide in their manual is a bit different than the one that comes with the Diamond if you buy just the fork. I used the Giant setup guide vs the one that came with my fork.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Man this is the second time this has happened. Decided to pull the Diamond apart last night and soak the felts in 20wt Fox Gold. Did all that, added 30cc's of the same oil in the lowers, put the OTT and rebound adjusters back on, went to pressurize the air chamber and it was pressurizing the lower leg! Got to 100psi and the air side main seal blew out. How on earth can you get into a situation where the lower is getting pressurized? Makes no sense. I torqued everything down after I was done adding oil just like the manual states and can think of no logical reason why the lower would pressurize. :madman:


Just as a follow up to this, I believe I found the issue. If I pull the fork apart, it helps to NOT remove all the air pressure first. If I remove all the air pressure, the fork compresses and puts the air piston in a bad spot in the air chamber thus allowing air to pass by and pressurize the lower leg after assembly. Don't know if that is normal but to me either the air chamber was machined improperly or if its by design, I believe the air chamber should be the same inside diameter all the way through so the air piston never encounters a "loose" area. Messaging with DVO to determine if this may be a warranty item or not.

The arrow is pointing to the "loose" area where the air piston (inside) gets to and allows air to pass by thus pressurizing the lower leg.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

RS VR6 said:


> Does the Ripmo come with a manual? I ask that because Giant also uses DVO forks. The setup guide in their manual is a bit different than the one that comes with the Diamond if you buy just the fork. I used the Giant setup guide vs the one that came with my fork.


there's this https://assets-ibiscycles-com.s3.amazonaws.com/files/Ripmo_AF_SetUp_D6.pdf

its under the Setup tab on https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripmo-af


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The Giant guide is a bit more detailed,

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

RS VR6 said:


> The Giant guide is a bit more detailed,
> 
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf


oh yeah, that's way better, did using it to set up your diamond work out ok?


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

mike156 said:


> The oil is more to take up space then anything. 5-10cc helps with the bottom out. The DVO setup makes for a pretty linear spring. Might be worth a try if you are having bottom out issues even when the air spring is supportive every where else.
> 
> I agree, without the oil, I feel like I would have had to run 145-150psi to avoid hard bottom outs, which was way too firm every where else.


I'm thinking about trying this as I've done everything to try and stop bottom outs. Funny, I just watched a video today of Remi Metallier dropping his bike off at VORSPRUNG and asked them to do this.

To confirm, I am adding oil into air cartridge? Where you normally put 5cc of oil and NOT the Lowers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

deno85 said:


> I'm thinking about trying this as I've done everything to try and stop bottom outs. Funny, I just watched a video today of Remi Metallier dropping his bike off at VORSPRUNG and asked them to do this.
> 
> To confirm, I am adding oil into air cartridge? Where you normally put 5cc of oil and NOT the Lowers?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I figured it out, and added 7cc of oil to the air cartridge last night. I'm heading up to the road gap I always bottom out on tonight to see if it made a difference for me! Fingers crossed.

Also, this was the first time I opened up my fork since getting it. I can report that my lowers were almost dry like many others have noticed. I had no oil come out of the damper side, and had maybe 5cc come out of the air side. I got that all topped up so it should run even better now!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

deno85 said:


> I figured it out, and added 7cc of oil to the air cartridge last night. I'm heading up to the road gap I always bottom out on tonight to see if it made a difference for me! Fingers crossed.
> 
> Also, this was the first time I opened up my fork since getting it. I can report that my lowers were almost dry like many others have noticed. I had no oil come out of the damper side, and had maybe 5cc come out of the air side. I got that all topped up so it should run even better now!


Good luck! Can easily drain or add oil by taking the shrader valve out and injecting it through there. Won't be as precise sense you can't wipe out the old oil.

Did my 2nd lowers service a few days ago after 70 hours of riding. Added the 5cc of oil back in the air spring. For the air side lowers it seems like a lot of oil gets stuck up around the OTT spring and it came out grey. Can't imagine it's getting up the staunchions to lube the bushings and seal from there so I went up to 30cc. Haven't ridden it yet.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

deno85 said:


> I figured it out, and added 7cc of oil to the air cartridge last night. I'm heading up to the road gap I always bottom out on tonight to see if it made a difference for me! Fingers crossed.
> 
> Also, this was the first time I opened up my fork since getting it. I can report that my lowers were almost dry like many others have noticed. I had no oil come out of the damper side, and had maybe 5cc come out of the air side. I got that all topped up so it should run even better now!


Ride update: I'm happy to report that adding oil to the air cartridge solved my bottom out problem. It was nice to not hear that bottom out 'clack'. I may have to tweak a few clicks here and there and maybe drop 5-10psi.

Next test will be Whistler Bike Park tomorrow 🤘

For anyone wondering where I'm at with this fork here it is:

Rider: 150lbs geared up
Fork: 2019 DVO Diamond D1 - Running at 170mm
Bike: 2015 Commencal Meta V4
Riding Style: Pretty Aggressive (Big hits and I like going fast)

PSI: 120 (may drop this 5-10)
HSC: 3 clicks
LSC: (2 or 3 depending on what I'm riding)
OTT: 4 full rotations
Rebound: 9 clicks from full fast

Changes: Added 7cc of oil to air cartridge to help add more ramp and prevent bottom outs.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

deno85 said:


> Ride update: I'm happy to report that adding oil to the air cartridge solved my bottom out problem. It was nice to not hear that bottom out 'clack'. I may have to tweak a few clicks here and there and maybe drop 5-10psi.
> 
> Next test will be Whistler Bike Park tomorrow
> 
> ...


I'm 160lbs and Dvo suggested to remove the ring shim and flip the piston, although I'm not a super aggressive rider.
Haven't tested it yet as I did the change yesterday.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

deno85 said:


> Ride update: I'm happy to report that adding oil to the air cartridge solved my bottom out problem. It was nice to not hear that bottom out 'clack'. I may have to tweak a few clicks here and there and maybe drop 5-10psi.
> 
> Next test will be Whistler Bike Park tomorrow
> 
> ...


Does this 7CCs of oil get added to the area between the air charge port and piston? What weight? Maybe I missed it


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Does this 7CCs of oil get added to the area between the air charge port and piston? What weight? Maybe I missed it


Correct, you can either remove the valve core and put oil in that way, or if you're doing a service, take out the air cartridge, remove the OTT spring and piston and then add oil that way. Manual says to use 7.5wt. I have WPL 2.5wt and the viscosity is similar to other 7.5's so that's what I used.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Does this 7CCs of oil get added to the area between the air charge port and piston? What weight? Maybe I missed it


He added it to the air cartridge so yes it's between the shrader valve where you add aair and the oil sits on top of the air piston.

DVO doesn't specify what weight oil to use here. I assumed it's their recommended oil for lowers which is 7.5wt but probably doesn't matter much. Adding oil will reduce the volume in the air cartridge which will cause the air spring to ramp up deeper in the stroke just like a volume spacer.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Slick! I'm going to try this. Though I haven't found hard bottom on the fork in a long time and only once or twice. Just another thing to tune


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Does anyone make aftermarket seals for the Diamond?


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

Zayphod said:


> Does anyone make aftermarket seals for the Diamond?


I think not


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Zayphod said:


> Does anyone make aftermarket seals for the Diamond?


Wondering this too. I believe Fox and Rockshox uses the same seals. I could swear that the SKF green seals for the 34 and 35mm stanchions are the same. I've bought both. Maybe it'll fit the Diamond too.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> Wondering this too. I believe Fox and Rockshox uses the same seals. I could swear that the SKF green seals for the 34 and 35mm stanchions are the same. I've bought both. Maybe it'll fit the Diamond too.


They won't, the diamonds seals have a smaller OD than others.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

I've had my Diamond for about 2.5 years now. Despite all the time with the fork, I've never been able to make it feel entirely 'good.' The fork consistently feel sticky and notchy in the beginning of the travel - even with high OTT and low PSI I can barely get any sag. If I proceed to press hard enough on the fork it will compress about 30-40mm, but the travel between 10-30mm seems virtually untouchable. 

The fork is also pretty harsh - my hands get sore basically every time I do a rougher ride. At high speeds it's fine, not exactly plush but remains supportive and high in the travel. At low speeds it feels as if the fork is barely compressing for hits, with lots of feedback being translated to my hands.

I'm pretty disappointed by the fork's base tune. I practically cannot use the HSC and LSC adjusters because the fork is already valved so stiffly internally. I tried to change that, but long story short things didn't go as I planned and only mod was the damper fluid being changed to Redline Like Water. The change is certainly a small improvement, but the issues still persist. 

After all this I'm feeling pretty disappointed with the fork. Coming from similarly harsh 2016 Pike RCT3 I was really looking forward to a large improvement with the Diamond. If anyone has some further recommendations regarding getting proper sag and softening the fork up I'm all ears. Here's what I've tried:

Rider weight 170-180lb ready to ride.

Current: 110PSI, 7 turns OTT, 2 clicks HSC, 1 on LSC, 12 clicks rebound (from clockwise). 

Previous: 120PSI, 10 turns OTT, 2 clicks HSC, 1 on LSC, 10 clicks rebound. 
100PSI, 3 turns OTT, full open HSC and LSC, 12 clicks rebound.

Going to try: 120PSI, 10 turns OTT, full open HSC and LSC, 14 clicks rebound.

All three setups show pretty similar sag and compliance behavior.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

You can always try flipping piston. 

I'm about 150 lbs geared up. The travel is set at 130mm on an Evil Following. So far its been pretty good for me. I think DVO would rather set up the fork on the stiff side vs having it too soft. It did take me several rides to get the fork close to where it feels good. Its been four months and I'm still making adjustments on the fork. I'm not a super hard charger and would prefer a softer tune.

Initially I used DVO's base settings in the user manual...the fork was really harsh. I could not come close to using full travel. I later came across Giant's setup guide. I then went from their base settings. I think at some point I'm going to drop the fork off at DVO and have them lighten up the tune on the damper.

~150lbs geared up.

90-ish psi
OTT @ 4 turns
Rebound @ I think 14 turns from full slow
HSC and LSC full open.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Phoenix864 said:


> I've had my Diamond for about 2.5 years now. Despite all the time with the fork, I've never been able to make it feel entirely 'good.' The fork consistently feel sticky and notchy in the beginning of the travel - even with high OTT and low PSI I can barely get any sag. If I proceed to press hard enough on the fork it will compress about 30-40mm, but the travel between 10-30mm seems virtually untouchable.
> 
> The fork is also pretty harsh - my hands get sore basically every time I do a rougher ride. At high speeds it's fine, not exactly plush but remains supportive and high in the travel. At low speeds it feels as if the fork is barely compressing for hits, with lots of feedback being translated to my hands.
> 
> ...


Have you ever done a lowers service? I assume you did when you tried to modd the damper but you can also do that leaving the lowers installed. You seem to either have an issue with no bushing lubrication or your bushings were to tight from the factory and they didn't catch the issue before sending it out.

You can easily check if the lowers have a bunch of friction sliding on the staunchions. Just remove the air and damper cartridges and leave the lowers on. From here the lowers should slide very smooth and easily on the staunchions. After doing this even if it's not the problem you my as well slide the lowers off to clean them and soak the foam rings in oil before reassembling with fresh lower oil. Or you can just reassemble and send it to DVO for service.

I think it's pretty unlikely you have a damping problem unless something is causing the shims in the compression loader from getting pushed open.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> You can always try flipping piston.
> 
> I'm about 150 lbs geared up. The travel is set at 130mm on an Evil Following. So far its been pretty good for me. I think DVO would rather set up the fork on the stiff side vs having it too soft. It did take me several rides to get the fork close to where it feels good. Its been four months and I'm still making adjustments on the fork. I'm not a super hard charger and would prefer a softer tune.
> 
> ...


I just find it funny how even DVO recommends nearly entirely open compression settings in their base tune. I mean, 29 clicks HSC and hardly anyone uses more than 10 clicks - most people don't seem to go beyond 5 or 6. 6 clicks of LSC and hardly anyone goes further than 3.

Thanks for the settings advice - just for fun I might try 100psi with 5 turns OTT and adjust compression as necessary to help support the fork. Would you say there is a risk of the fork sucking down at 100psi with 5 turns OTT? If I can't get decent sag with that setup than something must be mechanically wrong with the fork.



Fajita Dave said:


> Have you ever done a lowers service? I assume you did when you tried to modd the damper but you can also do that leaving the lowers installed. You seem to either have an issue with no bushing lubrication or your bushings were to tight from the factory and they didn't catch the issue before sending it out.
> 
> You can easily check if the lowers have a bunch of friction sliding on the staunchions. Just remove the air and damper cartridges and leave the lowers on. From here the lowers should slide very smooth and easily on the staunchions. After doing this even if it's not the problem you my as well slide the lowers off to clean them and soak the foam rings in oil before reassembling with fresh lower oil. Or you can just reassemble and send it to DVO for service.
> 
> I think it's pretty unlikely you have a damping problem unless something is causing the shims in the compression loader from getting pushed open.


I have not done a lowers service - I'd love to try, but I don't have much of a workspace and have always been afraid of damaging something. The fork has been worked on by a highly regarded local shop which specializes in suspension. According to them, the fork should be good mechanical condition. The fork has just seen a full lowers and damper service, so I'm assuming lubrication is alright for now.

Tight bushings do sound like a very possible culprit - I hope that the shop would have mentioned if they noticed tightness/friction in the stanchions/bushings, but it's possible that's the problem and they never bothered to mention anything.

However, I sent the fork back to DVO in the fall of 2018 for a creaking crown. They replaced the CSU to fix the creaking and did a full service along with it. I would have hoped they would have caught tight bushings during the service, but it's possible they missed it as well. Next time the fork gets opened up for a lowers service I check and see how the bushing fit is.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Do not use lower pressure to make a fork softer. Pressure (spring rate) is there to support your weight and thats it. While there's a range to work in it's not a substitute for correct damping and going either to high or to low will make a fork harsh and ride poorly. 

I'm 162 riding weight and use 120psi, 10 to 14 clicks HSC, and 9 clicks of rebound from full open. There's no way you should be under 120psi at 180lbs. To have as much stiction at initial stroke as you describe there needs to be either something wrong with the bushings causing friction or somehow the damping circuit is being shut as if you had the LSC set to 6.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> Do not use lower pressure to make a fork softer. Pressure (spring rate) is there to support your weight and thats it. While there's a range to work in it's not a substitute for correct damping and going either to high or to low will make a fork harsh and ride poorly.
> 
> I'm 162 riding weight and use 120psi, 10 to 14 clicks HSC, and 9 clicks of rebound from full open. There's no way you should be under 120psi at 180lbs. To have as much stiction at initial stroke as you describe there needs to be either something wrong with the bushings causing friction or somehow the damping circuit is being shut as if you had the LSC set to 6.


fajita dave, do you have any recommendations on getting a more plush end range of the travel? I have it so the initial and mid are great, but whenever I get into the end part of the travel its almost an abrupt stop. I'm not getting into the last inch of travel when riding (blue/blacks at speed) unless I air down and manually force it down.

I weight 195 with gear and run:
133 psi
10 ott
rebound 10 clicks from open
15-18 hsc
3 lsc

I've worked my way to the 2-3 turns of hsc, any less for that psi feels harsh all around. Any recommendations would be appreciated, cheers!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

So the fork feels good everywhere except the last inch of travel? If you remove all of the air from the fork can you get the fork fully compressed with the seals right up to the crown?

Have you tried less LSC? 

Assuming nothing is wrong with your fork and you tried opening up your HSC and LSC the last inch of travel is typically pretty hard to use on an air fork as pressure builds deeper in the travel.

The air piston should have 5cc of oil on top of it. If there's more oil the air pressure will ramp up more toward the end of travel making it harder to bottom out. You could try 2 or 3cc on top of the piston and make sure it's lubed pretty well with Slickoleum.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> So the fork feels good everywhere except the last inch of travel? If you remove all of the air from the fork can you get the fork fully compressed with the seals right up to the crown?
> 
> Have you tried less LSC?
> 
> ...


thanks FD. Yeah the fork feels really great probably first 2/3rds, the top 1/3 is stiff and tough, with the last inch impossible. If I let the air out it does bottom out, fender hits crown,

I've tried less lsc and don't really notice any difference. Next time I have it rebuilt I'll ask for less oil on top and see if that makes a difference. I know the fork has to ramp up as it gets to the top, just wish it didn't feel so abrupt as it gets into that top. I'd love to get the same cushion as it ramps into that last third that I get in the first 2/3rds, but maybe that's not possible. Most trails its not a big deal, but on a continuous chunky downhill, it can be a jarring. Appreciate the advice!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

It might be a good idea to call DVO. They could suggest a different shim arrangement or have some other ideas about what could be causing it. I have no doubt they've seen everything that could possibly happen with these forks.

My Diamond has felt pretty linear compared to every other fork I've ridden so it does seem a bit strange.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

Dvo recommended removing the the shim inside of the shim, which is the shim after the 22mm, from the stack. I’ll give it a shot next rebuild!


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> Anybody her know if the Ripmo AF forks have a different (lighter) compression tune than the regular forks? I've bought two Diamonds, one off of a Ripmo AF and the other wasn't. Long story short, I am running significantly lower pressure & more OTT on the non-RipmoAF diamond to get near the same travel usage, and I think I'd like a lighter compression tune with higher spring rate. Thanks in advance.


An update on the Ripmo AF vs. Stock compression damper - I called DVO to ask about any differences and they said that Ripmo compression tune was the stock compression tune. Guess I'm gonna have to pull the two forks out to see if the previous owner did anything. to the shim stack


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> An update on the Ripmo AF vs. Stock compression damper - I called DVO to ask about any differences and they said that Ripmo compression tune was the stock compression tune. Guess I'm gonna have to pull the two forks out to see if the previous owner did anything. to the shim stack


When I phoned DVO about modifying the damper due to being light weight, they told me to just flip the piston. They didn't recommend removing any shims as shown in one of the how to videos in this thread. This is what a stock diamond stack looks like on a Ripmo AF. No ring shim, etc.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

Ripbro said:


> When I phoned DVO about modifying the damper due to being light weight, they told me to just flip the piston. They didn't recommend removing any shims as shown in one of the how to videos in this thread. This is what a stock diamond stack looks like on a Ripmo AF. No ring shim, etc.


I was told to flip the piston and remove the ring shim, but I had one.
Mine is a first version of the non boost Diamond.
To be honest I haven't noticed much difference, I think I'm just one of those people that don't notice these kind of changes?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

spaniardclimber said:


> I was told to flip the piston and remove the ring shim, but I had one.
> Mine is a first version of the non boost Diamond.
> To be honest I haven't noticed much difference, I think I'm just one of those people that don't notice these kind of changes?


Do you know what the differences are between the non and boost versions of the Diamond? There are two different sets of instructions on their site for travel change. I have the non boost and my fork leg says "D1" on it just like the boost versions. I bought it in March 2020...but I think its a 2019 model.


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

RS VR6 said:


> Do you know what the differences are between the non and boost versions of the Diamond? There are two different sets of instructions on their site for travel change. I have the non boost and my fork leg says "D1" on it just like the boost versions.


No idea, when I bought mine there was just one version.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

RS VR6 said:


> Do you know what the differences are between the non and boost versions of the Diamond? There are two different sets of instructions on their site for travel change. I have the non boost and my fork leg says "D1" on it just like the boost versions. I bought it in March 2020...but I think its a 2019 model.


The internals are a lot different when it comes to the way the air spring and OTT spring are held into the bottom of the uppers. The boost version doesn't use the spanner holes to remove the spring rod. The boost version uses a large nut, an externally threaded guide and a small c-clip to hold the internals in.

In other words, not swap-able.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

terrible said:


> The internals are a lot different when it comes to the way the air spring and OTT spring are held into the bottom of the uppers. The boost version doesn't use the spanner holes to remove the spring rod. The boost version uses a large nut, an externally threaded guide and a small c-clip to hold the internals in.
> 
> In other words, not swap-able.


Anyone have pictures of this? I need to service the spring side but there isn't a boost service PDF.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Boost travel change vid
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/service-guides/diamond/diamond-boost-travel-change/

If you watch that he shows you how to get the OTT out. Once that's out all you have to do is remove the top cap from the leg to get the positive air piston out.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

Anyone have experience with the fork stiffening up on a long downhill with a lot of big hits? I don’t mean packing down, the hits are spaced far enough for the fork to rebound. I’ve had this happen quite a bit, start off soft and after a series of big hits fork starts feeling tough, then a couple minutes on a flat section and feels fine on hits again.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Mine has gotten a little stiffer on long rough descents but nothing to cause any issues. I'm riding a pretty firm setup anyway so I don't think it would be as noticeable.


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## ecbp (Sep 27, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> Mine has gotten a little stiffer on long rough descents but nothing to cause any issues. I'm riding a pretty firm setup anyway so I don't think it would be as noticeable.


Thanks, glad to know it's not just me, I probably feel it more since I'm trying to run softer settings. It's not unrideable, maybe just a little more pronounced than my last fork.


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## Shorsey (Nov 6, 2019)

*Rebound wont turn*

I followed dvo website instruction for lower service and the rebound adjustment is stuck. I have seen a few have this problem but I can not find the thread. I have paused on rebuilding until I figure it out. Anyone shed any light on this? It was stuck with the footnut finger tight, did not get to the point of torquing down.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Shorsey said:


> I followed dvo website instruction for lower service and the rebound adjustment is stuck. I have seen a few have this problem but I can not find the thread. I have paused on rebuilding until I figure it out. Anyone shed any light on this? It was stuck with the footnut finger tight, did not get to the point of torquing down.


From another thread:

Word of caution if you drop the lowers... I bought some Fox Gold and dropped the lowers on three bikes and replaced them all within the new oil. Had about 10ml stock in each leg of Diamond. When I tightened everything up the rebound was frozen. I loosened, retightened and still stuck. 

Long story short, after several calls to DVO I am now sending my fork in. Apparently the needle inside the rebound cartridge can stick when tightening and if you cant get it loose by inserting a 4mm Allen key into the leg you are screwed. I was told you need to hand tighten the foot bolt and then make sure the rebound knob turns freely before torquing to spec. Makes sense, but I didn't know this and didn't see it in the DVO oil change directions either, so heads up if you are planning to drop the lowers as something that seems so simple can cause a big issue


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Ripbro said:


> When I phoned DVO about modifying the damper due to being light weight, they told me to just flip the piston. They didn't recommend removing any shims as shown in one of the how to videos in this thread. This is what a stock diamond stack looks like on a Ripmo AF. No ring shim, etc.


Update: Pulled the damper apart and the shim stack had only 5 shims so I'm guessing the previous owner already removed a couple. I still have yet to open up the ripmo damper, I probably won't bother until winter settles in. I did notice a fair bit of friction from the end cap compared to the replacement one so hopefully it was friction feeling like damping.

Also as seen in the pic my bladder looks pretty deflated and required closing the bleed screw with the damper pistion ~100mm from bottom out to allow enough air in the bladder for the bladder to compress. I didn't think to look at this before I took it apart so I could have been adding some unwanted ramp up near bottom out.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

I just bought a used Diamond (about half an hour after posting my "which $500 fork" thread, haha) and I have some questions, maybe you all can help or comment.

Will the 29er version fit a 27.5x3 tire?

The 29er version is supposed to be adjustable 130-160. I need to reduce it. I'm putting it on a hard tail that's rated for a max of 130, to start with. I'm not understanding what this does to the springs, though, as there is only one set of recommended settings. It seems like you would run out of preload for the negative spring, and there's no change to its spring rate, while the positive spring should get more pressure.

Tokens are such a normal part of tuning for other brand forks but there's no native option here. It seems like it should still be useful but only a few people have talked about modifying some other brand tokens and most don't mention it. Do you feel like it's a missing ingredient or just accept it as part of this fork's operation?


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## M_Zimelka (Sep 20, 2019)

Just to answer the tyre size question.

I've run my Stumpjumper with the Diamonds installed with 29x2.6" wheels and tyres and also 27.5+ x3.0" wheels and tyres no problems.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Ok travel change has no effect on how the OTT spring works. The travel spacers go above the top out spring which is inside of the OTT spring on the air shaft. DVO doesn't use tokens which is what I like about DVO. I think tokens are a band aid for poor engineering. On a DVO fork you can add 5ml-15ml of 7.5 oil right into the air cartridge through the Schrader valve to act like tokens. On my gen1 Diamond 29 I had a Minion DHF 2.5 on it with 5mm clearance. Depending on tire it can be tight.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Darth Lefty said:


> I just bought a used Diamond (about half an hour after posting my "which $500 fork" thread, haha) and I have some questions, maybe you all can help or comment.
> 
> Will the 29er version fit a 27.5x3 tire?
> 
> ...


When you decrease travel there's a couple things that happen. Setting a certain PSI at top out will yield a lower spring rate on the shorter travel fork (setting PSI for a 130 fork is like 160 fork 30mm into its travel) so you will most likely need additional air pressure compared to the suggested settings.

Now for OTT, adding turns adds preload by moving the spring toward the top. When you decrease the travel you're pulling the piston away from the negative spring, reducing the preload. So to get a similar behavior in the beginning of stroke you will need to add OTT, bring the spring closer to the piston at top out.

Add to this the fact that you're riding a hardtail and don't have rear suspension to absorb any impact - putting more force onto the fork.

What I ended up doing when swapping a diamond from a 140 full suspension to a 130 hardtail is upping the pressure from 125 to 135 and adding a few turns of OTT (though I like a relatively firm spring in the end of stroke). I would take the suggested settings, add some PSI and OTT and then tune from there. (As a note I weigh ~170)


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Thanks about the tire size.

"travel change has no effect on how the OTT spring works"... But that doesn't make sense. The spacers put the negative spring 30mm further up its travel at top out. That seems like it should have a direct effect on the sag point that the preload should not have enough reach to counter.

I'm still wrapping my head around the pressure side. There's no negative air so maybe it doesn't need to get more pressure if it's shorter? With the length needed for the negative air assembly, the piston should go a lot higher and the positive side ramp up a lot faster than a dimple style, so maybe that can explain the lack of tokens.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

There is no negative air chamber. The negative preload is controlled by the OTT spring. In the image the OTT is the big spring, the top out spring sits underneath the OTT on the air shaft. When you change travel you pull the OTT spring down to access the top out spring. You pull the top out spring down to insert the travel spacers then reverse procedure. The spacers just shorten the distance the air shaft travels they have no effect on the OTT preload. The OTT preload is adjusted by the hex head on the end of the airshaft. You can see the threads where the picture is circled farthest left.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm 240# geared up these are my settings for the V1 Diamond I have.
PSI 115
OTT 9.5 turns (max)
HSC 3/4 turn
Rebound 8 clicks
Never needed to add oil for mid stroke support or ramp up.
This is a totally different animal then RS or Fox
Unlike RS the air side is a self contained cartridge
I'm not a fan of the RS solo air, it's a fast inexpensive way to make fork set up simple for people
I had a Revelation dual air as my first fork which was a pretty good design IMO
You controlled the negative spring by using your pump to add air to get the travel moving initially it was a very tunable fork once you understood it 
BTW always release the air pressure before turning OTT spring or you can damage it


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Thanks for the setup.

I think you can see what I'm saying though. Since the travel spacers are between the perches of the negative spring, the travel of the negative spring is also reduced and it only uses the softer part of its travel. So the negative spring's force at top out at 130mm travel is 30mm x spring rate less than it is at 160mm travel. A fork that has the same setup at 130 as 160 should have only 10mm sag instead of 40 because that's still the same ride height where the forces balance out. Something needs to change and there doesn't seem to be enough travel in the OTT preload to change it. But a much lower pressure seems like the wrong answer too because a shorter travel bike is going to bottom it sooner.

I'm trying to figure out from pictures if the negative spring is always in compression (seems likely but it looks too short), or if it goes into tension, or if it "lifts off" part way through travel (which sounds like it would be jarring, so probably not).


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Can't comment about the negative spring load with travel reduction but I'm certain you're seriously over thinking it.

I will say air pressure is NOT an adjustment for bottom out resistance or any sort of damping adjustment what so ever. You have HSC and LSC adjustments, use them. I imagine you'll be running very close to the same pressure as you would at full 160mm travel since the volume of the cartridge isn't reduced all that much by the travel adjustment. If you still find that a more progressive spring rate is needed just add a few CC of oil on top of the piston to make the spring rate more progressive. Just take the shrader out and add it in like someone further up said.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> ... but I'm certain you're seriously over thinking it.


Hi, welcome to the MTBR suspension forum! 

I got a note back from a tech at DVO who did not make any sweeping pronouncements but on his own bike with a 130 Diamond he's max OTT and -20 psi on the air vs his 160 settings


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Quoting from another thread

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/suspension-fork-spring-curves-1091063.html












ninjichor said:


> For example, would you have guessed 3A is a DVO Diamond with its off-the-top coil adjustment? 3B and 3C use air for the negative spring. There's a clear difference between them.
> 
> Look at 3A's travel at the 100mm mark. It gets slightly regressive there. Not curious why that is?


I am guessing that's where the negative spring lifts off and stops having any effect. Would that be a jarring transition if it's a stronger mismatch? Which makes me wonder about the people who earlier in this thread have complained about what they thought was the damper, especially when they were chasing it far away from the factory recommendations. Or on the other hand maybe you could call this "mid stroke support"


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I get what you're saying that as travel changes the OTT spring rate would also change when the airshaft is in motion. I don't how much that change would be. At full extension/top out the OTT preload is the same regardless of travel setting. Did you happen to ask DVO this question? All that I know is that the OTT effects initial stroke which would lead me to believe once the airshaft is in motion the OTT no longer has any effect on how the fork feels. I could be wrong though.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

I’ve been following this thread since post 1 and seem to now be suffering from my OTT self adjusting during riding. 

I remember seeing other experiencing this but can’t find it digging through the thread. 

Does anyone know the solution to this? It seems to have started happening since my last lowers service. I normally run 3 turns of OTT and after a few rides it’ll have spun itself to 10 rotations. Very frustrating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

deno85 said:


> I've been following this thread since post 1 and seem to now be suffering from my OTT self adjusting during riding.
> 
> I remember seeing other experiencing this but can't find it digging through the thread.
> 
> ...


1. call DVO and they can send you a cap that is designed to keep the OTT from self adjusting.

2. DVO also said you can service the OTT spring and apply liberal amounts of grease to the threads. see step 61, http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/onyxSCfull-service.pdf


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks for info. I did apply liberal amounts of grease to the OTT as suggested. 

I’ll send an email to DVO for the cap. Great to know they have a solution. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

deno85 said:


> Thanks for info. I did apply liberal amounts of grease to the OTT as suggested.
> 
> I'll send an email to DVO for the cap. Great to know they have a solution.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i did question him how grease prevents it from backing out, but didn't get a straight answer. thanks for confirming that it doesn't work. to be clear you aren't just talking about the grease on the spring right? that's just to quiet it down.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

chowfon said:


> i did question him how grease prevents it from backing out, but didn't get a straight answer. thanks for confirming that it doesn't work. to be clear you aren't just talking about the grease on the spring right? that's just to quiet it down.


Correct. I did liberal amounts to both the threads and spring itself. I also don't understand how grease would stop it from happening. Maybe a loctite, but I'd be too afraid to try that. Hah.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I haven't had the OTT move yet but plan on using a tiny bit of threadlock when it does happen. I'm sure it wouldn't be good to get any residue into the piston but I can't see it doing any major damage besides needing to replacing the piston itself. I would max out the OTT, put a very small amount of threadlock on and return it to 0 turns. Even if you adjust it later the existing threadlock should keep it more secure than clean threads. A wicking threadlock like Loctite 290 would probably be good but you probably won't break it loose again if you use to much.

I imagine DVO wouldn't approve otherwise they'd be recommending it.

I saw somewhere a person drilled through the foot nut and put a pin through it. Definitely a secure solution but I imagine most people wouldn't want to do it.


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

chowfon said:


> 1. call DVO and they can send you a cap that is designed to keep the OTT from self adjusting.


Anyone more details on this? Or pictures? It doesn't appear on their website. I'd call them but I don't think DVO will send to Australia. Might see if my local dealer can supply one.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

aiv23 said:


> Anyone more details on this? Or pictures? It doesn't appear on their website. I'd call them but I don't think DVO will send to Australia. Might see if my local dealer can supply one.


I heard back from their support via email. They just created a 3D printed part that slides on to the OTT nut. They can either mail you one, or they gave me the 3D printer file if you know someone with a 3D printer.

I also found another one searching the depths of the internet, so there are 2 you can try.

From DVO: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvv2w13xvrbgbog/OTT CAP.STL?dl=0

From a Google Search: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582081

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback, email sent to DVO for an OTT "locknut". Updates as I have them.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

watermonkey said:


> Thanks for the feedback, email sent to DVO for an OTT "locknut". Updates as I have them.


Just did the same.

When I originally got my Diamond D2 a few months back, I set the OTT at 3 turns. Decided to check the pressure/rebound/OTT on the fork last week, OTT was almost fully maxed out. :skep:

Other than that, I can't say anything bad about the fork. I rode a friends bike, '19 Bronson, with a new Fox 36 on it and honestly, if I were blind folded it would be very, very hard to tell the two apart.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that the OTT spring is twisting while compressing and decompressing causing everyone's' OTT to max out. I keep grease under the seat of the spring and I don't have any issues with the 4 DVO forks I've owned.


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

deno85 said:


> I heard back from their support via email. They just created a 3D printed part that slides on to the OTT nut. They can either mail you one, or they gave me the 3D printer file if you know someone with a 3D printer.
> 
> I also found another one searching the depths of the internet, so there are 2 you can try.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've seen the google version before, but I thought I read it broke in operation. Will try the DVO one though.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Heard back from Support. They're sending me a cap for the OTT knob.

That's why I love DVO. Not even 24hrs later and already sending out the part. Last time I tried talking to FOX about my DPX2, it was almost a week before I even got an initial response.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

chadbrochills said:


> Heard back from Support. They're sending me a cap for the OTT knob.
> 
> That's why I love DVO. Not even 24hrs later and already sending out the part. Last time I tried talking to FOX about my DPX2, it was almost a week before I even got an initial response.


Sweet! Their CS has been top notch for me too dealing with some delays with getting a Jade shipped to me. I had to change address for when the shock does end up shipping. Also added a bunch of stuff to the order, got help deciding what spring rate I need for the Jade and they were always quick and really easy to work with.

On topic of 3D printed stuff from DVO I bought a bleed cup from them for my Diamond. It needed a bit of cleaning up but it's perfect. Far better than trying to rig something like a cough syrup cup to fit as a bleed cup. I don't think it's listed on their site but if you need a bleed cup they'll make you one.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I had the OTT tightening on me as I ride as well. DVO send me a cap, but the fit wasn’t great and I lost it after a few rides. It’s tough to get to fit well and I had tried to use some tape to further secure it but no luck.

They suggested greasing the threads in ‘top hat’ portion of the OTT assembly. The grease they use is Huskey Lube-o-seal which is a food grade ptfe synthetic grease. I haven’t done this yet, but will tackle it in the dark and dreary depths of winter when I service the fork.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

My used Diamond arrived and seems functional. Prior owner clearly got something stuck behind the arch and it and scratched the stanchion which ate the wiper. He polished out the stanchion. 27.5x3 Nobby Nic fit fine in the 29er boost arch. Just bolted it up to my bike as-is and it's sat for a week. Rode today. No real notes yet except it seems like about the same amount of spring and damping, but more composed than the budget fork it replaced. Conditions here in California's elbow are dryyyy and I felt like that was more obvious, so maybe it's acting stiffer in torsion. Did no setup work, much less change the travel. The sag was about right ish to begin with and I didn't do anything that would bottom it.

It all seems to be working. Wipers are out of stock on DVO website. Might send it for service, might not...

I'm still kind of scratching my head how the negative spring only has preload adjustment. Seems like for different travel and rider weights there should be different springs or at least spacers. But if I don't bother changing travel it's not a problem? It's way beyond the rating for my frame but my riding is not up to the level of the fork so the frame is probably fine


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## shib (Sep 20, 2020)

Hi, I'm running a fairly new Sapphire 34 D1 but as its compression internals are the same as the Diamond I figured maybe somebody can help me out here:

The LSC adjuster started to drag the HSC adjuster with it today. Was working perfectly the other day, and today it's completely messed up. I can't set the green LSC without also turning the black HSC knob, and if I hold the HSC with my other hand, I can set the LSC more or less easily in the 6-4 range, but when approaching 2 it gets totally stuck. I think I could force it to 1, but doing so would also need me to clamp the HSC knob with something. So in general I can't use the LSC quick dial anymore because it screws my HSC settings up completely. I unscrewed the adjusters and they move freely and independently from each other when not sitting on top of the damper cartridge (it's the newer assembly that doesn't come off in multiple parts), but when put back on, LSC is stuck again.

Any ideas what caused this? I didn't do anything to the fork after the last ride other than cleaning the bike as I always do, with muc-off and a low pressure water hose.

I sent an email to DVO also, but figured maybe someone has had the same problem and can help me out.

Thanks!


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have had a Diamond but not a Sapphire...it may be that one or more of the little detent balls under the adjusters are missing.

If they are missing the knobs will drag and the symptoms you are describing sound pretty similar to that.


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## shib (Sep 20, 2020)

Thanks, I'll check that again - the new Sapphire has a newer adjuster setup that doesn't come off in single parts, i.e. the detent balls shoud be firm inside the adjuster, but I will have a look.

Meanwhile, Geoff from DVO got back to me and he thinks the internal LSC mechanism is bent, requiring a replacement + service. He asked me to get in touch with the german distributor to check with them how to proceed.

As I only have one single bike (I know, I know...) I hope the fork can be repaired swiftly, even though I don't expect that in the current times of high demand vs. low supply. Might have to source a used backup fork somewhere...


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Ripbro said:


> I had the OTT tightening on me as I ride as well. DVO send me a cap, but the fit wasn't great and I lost it after a few rides. It's tough to get to fit well and I had tried to use some tape to further secure it but no luck.
> 
> They suggested greasing the threads in 'top hat' portion of the OTT assembly. The grease they use is Huskey Lube-o-seal which is a food grade ptfe synthetic grease. I haven't done this yet, but will tackle it in the dark and dreary depths of winter when I service the fork.


Got the cap yesterday. I can see why you lost yours, I'm not sure it'll survive a single ride. lol. Seems to be on good, but I'm not too confident it's going to stay there. I ride a ton of rocky/rooty stuff and some big jumps. We'll see.


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## phrider (Jul 1, 2016)

chadbrochills said:


> Got the cap yesterday. I can see why you lost yours, I'm not sure it'll survive a single ride. lol. Seems to be on good, but I'm not too confident it's going to stay there. I ride a ton of rocky/rooty stuff and some big jumps. We'll see.


DVO sent me the same cap for my Sapphire 34 probably two months ago and while it hasn't fallen out, it doesn't do anything. I tested it multiple times and my OTT keeps winding up. The fork is a tank at nearly 2100 grams yet I'm trying to fix it with the equivalent of a soda bottle cap.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

I just got a Diamond D1 and excited to get it running!

I removed the air upside down before setting OTT, but a few drops of oil came out. I guess this is less than 1 ml, is it an issue?

If I am not mistaken, that is 5wt oil used for progressiveness right? Seeing as I weigh 190lbs, I might want to add some anyway?


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

olivierhacking said:


> I just got a Diamond D1 and excited to get it running!
> 
> I removed the air upside down before setting OTT, but a few drops of oil came out. I guess this is less than 1 ml, is it an issue?
> 
> If I am not mistaken, that is 5wt oil used for progressiveness right? Seeing as I weigh 190lbs, I might want to add some anyway?


Yea that oil takes up volume in the air chamber effectively making the the air spring more progressive. I would not worry about it for now. You'll know if you want to add oil after a few rides. Adding oil would make the end stroke firmer. So later on if your sag is good but you're bottoming out too much, then add oil 5ml at a time.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Anyone know if you can use Rockshox 35mm wiper seals on the diamond? I would imagine they're all the same..


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I think so

Like this:










I'm not sure about the RS flangeless seals. I mean they are seals and 35mm and a pain to install at times but there may or may not be a reason why DVO doesn't use them.

It may not matter tbh so long as they are legit brand 35mm seals.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> Anyone know if you can use Rockshox 35mm wiper seals on the diamond? I would imagine they're all the same..


Nope the ID of the seal area in the lowers is different.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

I had my first ride on the Diamond just using recommended settings, and it felt pretty good. Time to start experimenting.
I have OTT maxed out to 12 turns, although it was a bit vague to feel the last click, hoping it doesn't have to be EXACTLY full rotations from closed? I weigh 90kg/ 198lbs with kit and hope I won't get the OTT turning issue mentioned here (does it turn to more or less OTT? If more, I have no problem...)

I did notice that the fork felt a bit harsh on bigger hits, but I don't want to reduce HSC for a softer feel as I want to maintain bottom-out resistance (now on 2 rotations). 125psi and 12 rotations of rebound.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

olivierhacking said:


> I had my first ride on the Diamond just using recommended settings, and it felt pretty good. Time to start experimenting.
> I have OTT maxed out to 12 turns, although it was a bit vague to feel the last click, hoping it doesn't have to be EXACTLY full rotations from closed? I weigh 90kg/ 198lbs with kit and hope I won't get the OTT turning issue mentioned here (does it turn to more or less OTT? If more, I have no problem...)
> 
> I did notice that the fork felt a bit harsh on bigger hits, but I don't want to reduce HSC for a softer feel as I want to maintain bottom-out resistance (now on 2 rotations). 125psi and 12 rotations of rebound.


125psi might be a little low for your weight. I'm running 120psi at my 160ish lbs riding weight. With a little more pressure you shouldn't need as much HSC. After 12 clicks of HSC from open it does start to get really firm.

You might want to ease up on the OTT. I was using 6 turns but I dropped it to 3 turns. Gave up some of the small bump compliance but it performs better downhill making the full travel more effective rather than making the initial stroke to soft.

I haven't had any issues with my OTT turning on its own but it did get pretty easy to turn. On last full service I threaded it all the way down and put a little bit of blue thread lock on it before threading it back up. If any of the hardened thread lock gets loose after adjusting the OTT it probably won't be great if it gets onto the air piston but I'm not to concerned about it.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> 125psi might be a little low for your weight. I'm running 120psi at my 160ish lbs riding weight. With a little more pressure you shouldn't need as much HSC. After 12 clicks of HSC from open it does start to get really firm.
> 
> You might want to ease up on the OTT. I was using 6 turns but I dropped it to 3 turns. Gave up some of the small bump compliance but it performs better downhill making the full travel more effective rather than making the initial stroke to soft.
> 
> I haven't had any issues with my OTT turning on its own but it did get pretty easy to turn. On last full service I threaded it all the way down and put a little bit of blue thread lock on it before threading it back up. If any of the hardened thread lock gets loose after adjusting the OTT it probably won't be great if it gets onto the air piston but I'm not to concerned about it.


Hmm, I will look into adding more pressure then.

The user manual explicitly states to tune HSC in full rotations and not clicks though... And 2 full rotations is the minimum they recommend for my pressure. Or is everyone tuning in clicks?

May also experiment with less OTT, but I love small bump compliance. And if I do go to a higher pressure, not sure I'd lowe*r *OTT!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

The clickers are pretty difficult to feel and hear on their damper so they probably just started saying turns instead. There are 6 clicks in a full turn though. Going one full turn is a huge change. One or two clicks is pretty noticable. All it does is put more spring pre-load on the shim stack making it stiffer.

If you try a higher pressure definitely keep your OTT where it is so you have a good comparison. Going to 130psi should let you make HSC a few clicks softer which will feel better on bigger hits. Spring rate is definitely not a damping adjustment and shouldn't be used as one but spring and damping do work together. You need to find the right spring rate for what you do and adjust damping from there. If your spring rate is to soft you'll need firmer damping and you'll rider lower in the travel where the spring ramps up making it harsh.

Oh yeah and don't worry about going past the last click on the OTT. Just don't tighten it like you would a bolt. It's just a threaded shaft in there. The clicks are just an indicator for how far you've gone.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks for that information! Still need to get around to tuning it.

Out of curiosity, what settings are those of you at/ just under 200lbs running (and for which terrain)? I want to setup my fork to handle everything from XC to bike park, which I know is asking a lot...


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Been very happy with the Diamond at 130psi and only one full rotation of HSC from closed!

I do find the included mudguard bordering on useless, unfortunately Mudhugger and similar mudguards don't have bolt-on versions for DVO. Any tips on a larger, bolt-on mudguard for the Diamond?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

olivierhacking said:


> Been very happy with the Diamond at 130psi and only one full rotation of HSC from closed!
> 
> I do find the included mudguard bordering on useless, unfortunately Mudhugger and similar mudguards don't have bolt-on versions for DVO. Any tips on a larger, bolt-on mudguard for the Diamond?


I'm with you on the mudguard. We have a lot of sandy, dusty soil most of the year so mudguards help keep the wiper and stanchions free of abrasive material. The DVO fender does a pretty poor job.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Lol...that fender is there for looks. I put it on and never took it off...but yeah...it don't do much.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Dear DVO, 

Please give us a better mud guard. Make it and we will come!


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Has anyone legit figured out the OTT knob spinning itself in? 

Also curious what DVO charges for a rebuild on this fork? Mine is about a year old now and I've only added oil to the lowers/soaked the felts so maybe its time for a rebuild...


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I used some blue thread lock on the OTT shaft. If you're still trying different OTT settings that's probably not a great idea. As you turn it to adjust some of the dry thread lock might flake off and get suspended in the grease and oil. I have no idea if that would even scratch or damage anything but it's not ideal either way. If you don't need to adjust the OTT then the thread lock won't be going anywhere.

I have no idea what DVO charges but it's easy to do yourself on this fork! It does take some specific tools and mechanical skills though. There is also the risk you might knick something like I did to the damper shaft during my last Topaz service.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> I used some blue thread lock on the OTT shaft. If you're still trying different OTT settings that's probably not a great idea. As you turn it to adjust some of the dry thread lock might flake off and get suspended in the grease and oil. I have no idea if that would even scratch or damage anything but it's not ideal either way. If you don't need to adjust the OTT then the thread lock won't be going anywhere.
> 
> I have no idea what DVO charges but it's easy to do yourself on this fork! It does take some specific tools and mechanical skills though. There is also the risk you might knick something like I did to the damper shaft during my last Topaz service.


I've had the air spring apart before, wasn't bad to do but if I tear into it again I want it to be fixed. Was digging through service manuals last night and it looks like they recommend grease on the part where you put Loctite. Makes sense so OTT is easy to adjust but I'm still curious whats causing it to turn by itself. Has to have something to do with the spring not having enough grease on the ends which puts more friction on the end caps and turns the adjuster...


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bdreynolds7 said:


> I've had the air spring apart before, wasn't bad to do but if I tear into it again I want it to be fixed. Was digging through service manuals last night and it looks like they recommend grease on the part where you put Loctite. Makes sense so OTT is easy to adjust but I'm still curious whats causing it to turn by itself. Has to have something to do with the spring not having enough grease on the ends which puts more friction on the end caps and turns the adjuster...


I read where they recommend a huge amount of grease there too along with on the spring. I can't see how slickoleum is going to prevent the threaded interface from turning with no torque on it. I imagine something like a nylon lock nut but built into it would help a lot. Under spring tension that's constantly loading and unloading during a ride I can definitely see the OTT backing itself off on its own if there's no resistance holding it in place. The clicker at the bottom apparently isn't enough to hold it.

I didn't put much grease on my OTT spring but I did make sure the top and bottom were pretty well lubed for where the spring seats. I'm not sure if it would really matter.

Other people 3D printed a cap the clamps onto the foot nut and prevents the OTT from turning. I think DVO makes a version of that which you can get from them.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Fajita Dave said:


> I read where they recommend a huge amount of grease there too along with on the spring. I can't see how slickoleum is going to prevent the threaded interface from turning with no torque on it. I imagine something like a nylon lock nut but built into it would help a lot. Under spring tension that's constantly loading and unloading during a ride I can definitely see the OTT backing itself off on its own if there's no resistance holding it in place. The clicker at the bottom apparently isn't enough to hold it.
> 
> I didn't put much grease on my OTT spring but I did make sure the top and bottom were pretty well lubed for where the spring seats. I'm not sure if it would really matter.
> 
> Other people 3D printed a cap the clamps onto the foot nut and prevents the OTT from turning. I think DVO makes a version of that which you can get from them.


Ya I've seen the caps, kinda cool. May have my bro print one out for me.

The weird thing to me is the fork didn't do this when I first got it which tells me something is worn out, has grease or doesn't have grease where it should. Some dudes on Pinkbike have gone to more extreme lengths to keep it from spinning...










Yes that's a spoke lol. Cotter pin would also work. I'm just having a hard time with drilling a hole in my fork


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

On second thought, I'm doing a cotter pin. Probably the easiest solution and still leaves the fork adjustable once the cotter pin is removed. I'll just have to live with adjusting it in half turn increments.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Well that was easy. Drilled a hole a little bigger than 1/16 and slid a piece of 1/16 stainless TIG filler rod in. Looking forward to OTT staying in place now!


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Has anyone legit figured out the OTT knob spinning itself in?
> 
> Also curious what DVO charges for a rebuild on this fork? Mine is about a year old now and I've only added oil to the lowers/soaked the felts so maybe its time for a rebuild...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

bdreynolds7 said:


> On second thought, I'm doing a cotter pin. Probably the easiest solution and still leaves the fork adjustable once the cotter pin is removed. I'll just have to live with adjusting it in half turn increments.


I thought about doing that too but I honestly haven't had the OTT self adjust yet. Just more of a preventative thing for me to take care of a known problem.

For drilling a hole through the adjuster like that photo I would have used safety wire. Safety wire is only about .8mm so you won't need such a large hole. On track motorcycles a lot of things need to be safety wired to pass inspection so very common place to secure nuts, bolts, and oil filters.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Forgot the pic


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

DVO uses Lubeoseal synthetic PTFE grease on the ‘top hat’ threads that holds the OTT spring. They recommend greasing those threads with that grease if the OTT adjuster starts moving on its own. Mine does and I’ll be giving it a go in the next week or two. Nervous about getting inside to the air spring but I’ll see how it goes.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Ripbro said:


> DVO uses Lubeoseal synthetic PTFE grease on the 'top hat' threads that holds the OTT spring. They recommend greasing those threads with that grease if the OTT adjuster starts moving on its own. Mine does and I'll be giving it a go in the next week or two. Nervous about getting inside to the air spring but I'll see how it goes.


I think the hardest part is not nicking the air shaft, once you do, you're screwed. Good luck! To me it seems adding grease to that will just make OTT want to spin even easier but let us know how it works. I'm digging my pinned setup lol


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Should there be visible stanchions (10mm) when fork is fully compressed, even without air?

I thought I had an 10mm spacer in mine, but today I received it back from a full service and the guys told me there were none and the fork was already in max travel. Also, the fork rebounds to about 159-160mm of visible stanchions (even with OTT at 0), but if I grab the ark and the crown, I can manually pull it to 170.

Is this 'normal' or something is wrong with mine? It was like this from the beginning and I always thought that's because of the spacer inside, but nope.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

With no air in the fork can you push it down the remaining 10mm? On my non-boost diamond the dust wipers will bottom out on the fork crown but it won't stay down unless 100% of the air is bled and there's no pressure building up in the lowers.

When fully extended is this with your normal air pressure? If set to 170mm travel you won't have 170mm of exposed staunchion until the fork is fully aired up. Even then if your OTT is set with to many turns the OTT will compress the fork a little bit.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Can't get those 10mm even if I hold down the valve core when i'm compressing the fork - there is a hard stop at the bottom, so it's not oil or grease. 

I usually run 120psi, but I have tried with 150psi and even then the fork doesn't fully extends by itself. As for the OTT - I haven't used more than 6 turns and I've seen people here running close to max with the same pressure without any suction problems due to cranked OTT.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Zayphod said:


> Can't get those 10mm even if I hold down the valve core when i'm compressing the fork - there is a hard stop at the bottom, so it's not oil or grease.
> 
> I usually run 120psi, but I have tried with 150psi and even then the fork doesn't fully extends by itself. As for the OTT - I haven't used more than 6 turns and I've seen people here running close to max with the same pressure without any suction problems due to cranked OTT.


That's pretty weird, I'd contact DVO about that one.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

My non boost is set at 130 and I can completely compress the fork with it aired out. I don’t think I can get it to stay fully compressed though.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Kind of useless to post in a 70 pages long linear thread, but I just got a new Diamond and for now all I have to say is: finally, finally, finally a fork that can be tuned! It seems to work great but I'll post something more after a dozen rides or so.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Take your time with setting up the fork. I was used to Fox and Rockshox fork where I can set them up fairly fast. The Diamond took a lot more rides to dial in.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

Spend some time on their recommended settings, for me they were very close to what I have ended up with. Bear in mind that OTT allows running higher pressure If you want a more supportive fork without compromising traction of comfort, so the possibilities are endless.

Contrary to my previous fork that had only LSC, rebound, air and tokens to adjust, the Diamond was easier to dial because there's a wider happy window and the effect of each knob is easily felt.



RS VR6 said:


> Take your time with setting up the fork. I was used to Fox and Rockshox fork where I can set them up fairly fast. The Diamond took a lot more rides to dial in.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm on my second Diamond and one of the things I noticed right away with my first one is how a couple of PSI difference can make the fork feel completely different. Recently matched a Topaz with the Diamond. A winning combination.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> Take your time with setting up the fork. I was used to Fox and Rockshox fork where I can set them up fairly fast. The Diamond took a lot more rides to dial in.


We are all different, and my experience is the opposite ... I was never really able to set up Fox or Rockshox forks (or shocks for that matter) to my liking, especially on the long run. The only exception being a Pushed Vanilla 2004 that I still remember with fondness.

The Diamond is instead pretty much right on over the whole spectrum just using the suggested setting for my weight. The fork it still braking in (fifth ride will be tonight), but I don't expect surprises. I love how fine tunable it seems to be, and being able to adjust the negative spring is the big plus. I was tempted to get a Formula Selva R, that has adjustable negative and positive chambers, but the lack of availability and the set and forget advantage of the coil won.

It is paired with a Topaz, and together they REALLY make my IBIS HD3 a better bike.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I've said this to many people, but the idea of a dimple to automatically set your neg/pos pressure is ridiculous. It's just a cheaper way to manufacture forks. I had a Revelation dual air that aside from having a basic damper was a pretty tunable fork because it had a neg air side that you inflated for the beginning stroke. I'm on my second diamond and will be a DVO rider for the foreseeable future.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Rngspnr said:


> I've said this to many people, but the idea of a dimple to automatically set your neg/pos pressure is ridiculous. It's just a cheaper way to manufacture forks. I had a Revelation dual air that aside from having a basic damper was a pretty tunable fork because it had a neg air side that you inflated for the beginning stroke. I'm on my second diamond and will be a DVO rider for the foreseeable future.


Yeah, i know what we should do, we should install a fixed rate coil spring with only preload adjustment instead


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Rngspnr said:


> I've said this to many people, but the idea of a dimple to automatically set your neg/pos pressure is ridiculous. It's just a cheaper way to manufacture forks. I had a Revelation dual air that aside from having a basic damper was a pretty tunable fork because it had a neg air side that you inflated for the beginning stroke. I'm on my second diamond and will be a DVO rider for the foreseeable future.


I disagree, an adjustable negative spring only allows you to run less pressure than the positive or else it sucks in to its travel. So it isnt a useful tuning feature at all, neg volume and dimple position are more useful for performance.

Plus history has shown that as soon as you add an extra air spring adjustment the average persons brain melts and they can't set it up well at all. Thats why the big brands only use 1 valve these days


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## rete (Sep 23, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I disagree, an adjustable negative spring only allows you to run less pressure than the positive or else it sucks in to its travel. So it isnt a useful tuning feature at all, neg volume and dimple position are more useful for performance.
> 
> Plus history has shown that as soon as you add an extra air spring adjustment the average persons brain melts and they can't set it up well at all. Thats why the big brands only use 1 valve these days


Still, you have that choice of running 5psi more negative and giving up some usable negative travel while gaining a softer initial stroke. Dual air springs, like that Revelation's, can also be easily tuned to get more negative air volume and initial suppleness balanced with actual travel, and since they adjust with travel spacers you have flexibility outside the manufacturer's intentions. The same can't be said for springs that rely on an air transfer port. You're stuck with a fixed measurement from bottom of stanchion to dimple and must work within that constraint.

Melting brains, well.... There's a massive circular thread near the top of this forum right now that shows you don't need adjustable negative air to get that.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

rete said:


> Still, you have that choice of running 5psi more negative and giving up some usable negative travel while gaining a softer initial stroke. Dual air springs, like that Revelation's, can also be easily tuned to get more negative air volume and initial suppleness balanced with actual travel, and since they adjust with travel spacers you have flexibility outside the manufacturer's intentions. The same can't be said for springs that rely on an air transfer port. You're stuck with a fixed measurement from bottom of stanchion to dimple and must work within that constraint.
> 
> Melting brains, well.... There's a massive circular thread near the top of this forum right now that shows you don't need adjustable negative air to get that.


Haha coil spring brain melted

In my opinon, port position and negative volume is MUCH more effective than just negative pressure. I think manitou's Dorado Air did it best through


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

rete said:


> Still, you have that choice of running 5psi more negative and giving up some usable negative travel while gaining a softer initial stroke. Dual air springs, like that Revelation's, can also be easily tuned to get more negative air volume and initial suppleness balanced with actual travel, and since they adjust with travel spacers you have flexibility outside the manufacturer's intentions. The same can't be said for springs that rely on an air transfer port. You're stuck with a fixed measurement from bottom of stanchion to dimple and must work within that constraint.
> 
> Melting brains, well.... There's a massive circular thread near the top of this forum right now that shows you don't need adjustable negative air to get that.


On my Revelation Dual Air I would air the negative side until the lowers just started to move and that was the sweet spot for me. The ability to adjust the negative side allows the fork to be more supple at the beginning of the stroke and to absorb all the small chatter. I've never ridden an RS fork that feels as good as a Diamond does. Sorry not convincing me otherwise about solo air. I have a buddy that has a Pike that he has done multiple mods to it to get it where he likes it. He rode my bike and the first thing he said was I can't believe how supple that fork is. Same buddy also tried to upgrade one of his RS forks with a debonair air shaft only to find out that the new air shaft equalized the pressure in a different point of travel causing the fork legs to suck down. I would go with DVO or Manitou over Fox or Rockshox any day.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Haha coil spring brain melted
> 
> In my opinon, port position and negative volume is MUCH more effective than just negative pressure. I think manitou's Dorado Air did it best through


So changing port position is literally no different than adjusting air pressure, given set negative volume at top out. Setting the equalization port location (as opposed to separate pos / neg pressures) just makes it so that the positive / negative pressure ratio doesn't change for the folks who don't check their air pressure often.

Edit: had a couple beers tonight


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> So changing port position is literally no different than adjusting air pressure, given set negative volume at top out. Setting the equalization port location (as opposed to separate pos / neg pressures) just makes it so that the positive / negative pressure ratio doesn't change for the folks who don't check their air pressure often.
> 
> Edit: had a couple beers tonight


Not if you also change the length of the shaft. The manufacturers can use it to tune the rate of the negative spring if the sealhead is fixed


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I disagree, an adjustable negative spring only allows you to run less pressure than the positive or else it sucks in to its travel. So it isnt a useful tuning feature at all, neg volume and dimple position are more useful for performance.
> 
> Plus history has shown that as soon as you add an extra air spring adjustment the average persons brain melts and they can't set it up well at all. Thats why the big brands only use 1 valve these days


Nonsense. Being able to adjust the negative spring is a godsend. Especially with the coil set and forget system used by DVO. Like everything else you have to use it correctly.

Fox and RS do their thing, including, in the case of RS, marketing useless upgrades every single year. They do unwillingly promote a whole industry of "tuners" and "after market" mods promising to fix the problems with their forks. Really: I'd take any fork with real adjustability over their offers any time.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I don't understand why this is such a problem in mtb. There's plenty of people who knew nothing about suspension (including myself) in motocross. Plenty of adjustability and we just played with it until you learned what worked by trial and error. Custom tune for the individual and specific use is very common but not restricting adjustability with the reasoning that people are to dumb to have it.

Having the OTT has been great to get the initial stroke dialed in. I'm sure there are plenty of people who misuse it but that's on them for not putting in effort learning how to use it. Then you have the people who just roll with factory suggestions and don't care either way.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

spo0n said:


> Yeah, i know what we should do, we should install a fixed rate coil spring with only preload adjustment instead


According to some people OTT doesn't work. If you've never ridden a DVO fork you can't really comment about it. The baseline settings are actually very close and typically only need some minor tweaks. Let me also say that I am not a fanboy of any particular brand I ride what feels the best "to me". I think that there are a lot of people out there that don't have the ability to feel what the suspension is doing and just tune as best they can, nothing wrong with that at all if it works for you that's all that really matters. I also prefer a suspension product that doesn't require me to buy something additional to change travel. Why is it that DVO isn't constantly coming up with some new greatest technology like Rockshox. Every year the new Rockshox products are even better than the year before how can this be?


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

I have ridden a DVO diamond. I also think coil negative springs can work. But just preload isn’t a sufficient adjustment when you are changing positive spring rate


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

Looking for suggestion on suspension oil for the lowers. I plan to change the travel on my Sapphire (34mm stanchions). The lowers need to be removed. I read you need to fill 25ml of 7.5W but I don't see any specific brand noted other than NOT Maxima. Spectro Golden Cartridge looks easy to source. Motorex is more exotic, more expensive.

Suggestions?


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

There are quite a number of people recommending 20wt (Fox Gold) oil for the lowers. I am going to try it myself as well. Apparently very supple (who doesn't want that!) and fine as long as you aren't planning on biking in temperatures very far under freezing.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I use Spectro.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

So I put 20wt Fox Gold into the lowers of my Diamond D1 (35cc damper side, 25cc air side) but the fork now rests at 155mm and not 160mm. I always have OTT maxed out.

Only pumping it up to 150psi makes it extend to 160mm (I run 130psi). What could be wrong here?

Edit: might simply be too much OTT. Backed out from 12 to 8 turns and now reading 160mm. Despite the recommended OTT being max for my 130psi/ 195lbs


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I saw a hint on DVO Facebook fan page that DVO plans to release either a single crown coil fork or a conversion kit for their existing forks. I hope it is both and hope it is soon.


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## Smashquatch (Apr 29, 2016)

Is that something new on the front of Remy Metailler's bike?


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

turns out it's just a new adjuster


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I wonder if that will be compatible with the current forks?


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Sounds like it is but you need a new top cap to make it work.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I think I experienced the OTT "wind in"...lol...or was it wind out.

I noticed that my fork was feeling a bit squishy and the top out when decompressing was a bit soft. My air pressure was ok...then I decided to turn my OTT knob back out. It felt like a lot more than my usual 15 clicks. I went back out to least sensitive and turned in 15 clicks. The mushy feeling is gone and the firm top out has returned.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

RS VR6 said:


> I think I experienced the OTT "wind in"...lol...or was it wind out.
> 
> I noticed that my fork was feeling a bit squishy and the top out when decompressing was a bit soft. My air pressure was ok...then I decided to turn my OTT knob back out. It felt like a lot more than my usual 15 clicks. I went back out to least sensitive and turned in 15 clicks. The mushy feeling is gone and the firm top out has returned.


Is the new adjuster designed to fix this issue?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I don’t think so. They need to redesign the foot nut so that it has a mechanism to stop the 5mm OTT bolt from rotating. Until then, the only solution is the 3D printed cap. Some have said rebuilding the OTT spring and using marine grease fixed the problem.


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

I know this is the DVO Diamond thread. I have a question about the Sapphire. I do not see a dedicated Sapphire thread.

I picked up a lightly used Sapphire (34mm). Before using it I changed the travel from 130mm to 140mm by removing a spacer. The fork feels great. I came off a Fox 34 Performance. So that's my reference. I notice a slight clunk during rebound. Feels very similar to a loose headset. The easiest way to reproduce is simply pulling up on the handlebar. I don't need to pull to the point where the front wheel leaves the ground. Also noticed the fork produces a squishy fluid noise. I mostly notice this sprinting. I'm did read some threads about the clunk and others wrote about it essentially the same way I'm experiencing it but I didn't find any real answers.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Grande said:


> I know this is the DVO Diamond thread. I have a question about the Sapphire. I do not see a dedicated Sapphire thread.
> 
> I picked up a picked up a lightly used Sapphire (34mm). Before using it I changed the travel from 130mm to 140mm by removing a spacer. The fork feels great. I came off a Fox 34 Performance. So that's my reference. I notice a slight clunk during rebound. Feels very similar to a loose headset. The easiest way to reproduce is simply pulling up on the handlebar. I don't need to pull to the point where the front wheel leaves the ground. Also noticed the fork produces a squishy fluid noise. I mostly notice this sprinting. I'm did read some threads about the clunk and others wrote about it essentially the same way I'm experiencing it but I didn't find any real answers.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Ask DVO directly.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Grande said:


> I know this is the DVO Diamond thread. I have a question about the Sapphire. I do not see a dedicated Sapphire thread.
> 
> I picked up a picked up a lightly used Sapphire (34mm). Before using it I changed the travel from 130mm to 140mm by removing a spacer. The fork feels great. I came off a Fox 34 Performance. So that's my reference. I notice a slight clunk during rebound. Feels very similar to a loose headset. The easiest way to reproduce is simply pulling up on the handlebar. I don't need to pull to the point where the front wheel leaves the ground. Also noticed the fork produces a squishy fluid noise. I mostly notice this sprinting. I'm did read some threads about the clunk and others wrote about it essentially the same way I'm experiencing it but I didn't find any real answers.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


If you don't seat the white plastic sleeve on the OTT spring correctly then it will rattle around.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Grande said:


> I know this is the DVO Diamond thread. I have a question about the Sapphire. I do not see a dedicated Sapphire thread.
> 
> I picked up a picked up a lightly used Sapphire (34mm). Before using it I changed the travel from 130mm to 140mm by removing a spacer. The fork feels great. I came off a Fox 34 Performance. So that's my reference. I notice a slight clunk during rebound. Feels very similar to a loose headset. The easiest way to reproduce is simply pulling up on the handlebar. I don't need to pull to the point where the front wheel leaves the ground. Also noticed the fork produces a squishy fluid noise. I mostly notice this sprinting. I'm did read some threads about the clunk and others wrote about it essentially the same way I'm experiencing it but I didn't find any real answers.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


DVO is great about answering questions on the phone.

The clunking sound is probably the OTT spring. Maybe it isn't seated correctly. They can also be noisey if they aren't greased.

It's pretty normal to have some slushy sound on rebound but the damper could also have air in it. They're easy to bleed but you'll need a funnel that fits on top of the damper and 2.5wt shock oil.


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

Can anyone suggest a grease for the OTT/negative spring unit for a Sapphire. I'm specifically referring to that gray barrel at the end of the unit. The plastic grey barrel is threads onto the rest of the unit. This is the piece that rotates when you adjust the OTT at the bottom of the left leg. DVO suggested PTFE synthetic grease and specifically Huskey Lube-O-Seal which is apparently used in automotive bushings. I'm not sure where to source that and from what I see the smallest amount they sell is a big tube that goes onto a grease gun.

Any equivalents here?


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

To DVO Diamond D1 29" 160 mm owners/users :
is there any kind of list of known "problems" with that fork?


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

Grande said:


> Can anyone suggest a grease for the OTT/negative spring unit for a Sapphire. I'm specifically referring to that gray barrel at the end of the unit. The plastic grey barrel is threads onto the rest of the unit. This is the piece that rotates when you adjust the OTT at the bottom of the left leg. DVO suggested PTFE synthetic grease and specifically Huskey Lube-O-Seal which is apparently used in automotive bushings. I'm not sure where to source that and from what I see the smallest amount they sell is a big tube that goes onto a grease gun.
> 
> Any equivalents here?


I've seen them recommend Slikoleum for the Diamond. Can't see the Sapphire being different?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

After a year of abuse, I believe my Diamond has developed a creaky CSU. Going to talk to DVO to see if this is a warranty item. It's seen a bit of hard use  Anyone have a fix that has worked to cure the creak?


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Does someone have photographs of the diamond compression and rebound piston from both sites? 
Are they of the same design as the ones from the onyx?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

bansaiman said:


> Does someone have photographs of the diamond compression and rebound piston from both sites?
> Are they of the same design as the ones from the onyx?


Not sure if I have photos handy but they are the same


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Not sure if I have photos handy but they are the same


Ah great to know they are the same. But still would be happy to see the design of both pistons


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

From a diamond:


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ripbro said:


> From a diamond:
> View attachment 1944838
> 
> View attachment 1944839


Thank you. But I am interested in the REBOUND PISTON also. 
If it is asmilar nice design or only some small holes


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## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

looking for a new fork and wanted to try a dvo. will this be significantly better than my lyrik ultimate + acs3 coil combo? I somehow don't like the lyrik when hitting rough rocky descents. i know this is a diamond thread but i'm thinking of onyx sc.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

kimochi said:


> looking for a new fork and wanted to try a dvo. will this be significantly better than my lyrik ultimate + acs3 coil combo? I somehow don't like the lyrik when hitting rough rocky descents. i know this is a diamond thread but i'm thinking of onyx sc.


I thought the biggest upgrade from my pike to the diamond was the air spring, I could never get the debonair spring to feel supportive enough in the early / mid stroke without going above a useable spring rate. If you've already converted to a coil then maybe you already fixed that problem. I think the damping is a matter of preference, the DVO is generally regarded as more suited to hard charging riding, I had the older charger damper (A2 RCT3) and thought both were fine. I just picked up a ripmo AF this year and don't have a ton of time on the Onyx but it's just a bit stiffer than the diamond, I think it's worth the weight penalty for a longer travel bike.


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## JankyEric (Aug 1, 2021)

Made one of these bleed cups for my buddy Myles Trainer and he figured I should list them for sale. Maybe if you service your fork you'll be able to ride like him? 
3D printed in Bellingham. Shipped worldwide.









Oil Catch Container / Bleed Cup for DVO Suspension Fork Service


DVO "oil catch container" for DVO Diamond damper service. This bleed cup is placed on the top of the damper and acts as a reservoir for bleeding the damper. Compatability: Hexagon - Diamond and some "older" Onyx Round - Onyx Check the top of your damper to confirm.




jankcomponents.com












Cheers!
Eric


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## motomc (Jan 17, 2004)

JankyEric said:


> Made one of these bleed cups for my buddy Myles Trainer and he figured I should list them for sale. Maybe if you service your fork you'll be able to ride like him?
> 3D printed in Bellingham. Shipped worldwide.
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know if that bleed cup will work for the Onyx SC?


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have one on the way for my Onyx SC and will report back in a couple of days.

Was changing travel yesterday and the service manual mentioned pulling cartridges.

I have owned a Diamond so this made sense and I discovered that the Onyx doesn't have a damper cartridge, at least not a full length cartridge so...

Bleeding lowers was easy and ready for cup to finish it off. Tried a cut down cup from a cough syrup bottle but it just made a hellish mess as the seal wasn't quite good enough.

Stopped, cut losses, ordered a cup after seeing this post and also ordered one from RNoksDesigns | Etsy as a hedge bet.


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## JankyEric (Aug 1, 2021)

motomc said:


> Do you know if that bleed cup will work for the Onyx SC?


I believe so! Both forks use a 32mm hex on the top cap. Also based on them using what appears to be the exact same funnel in both service guides.

https://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/onyxSCfull-service.pdf


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## JankyEric (Aug 1, 2021)

silentG said:


> I have one on the way for my Onyx SC and will report back in a couple of days.
> 
> Was changing travel yesterday and the service manual mentioned pulling cartridges.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your order! Just shipped it.


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## bostik (Dec 11, 2017)

JankyEric said:


> Thanks for your order! Just shipped it.


Hello, sorry to bother you, but as I'm located in Italy, the shipping costs almost 2 times the bleed cup. Any chance that you may arrange a less expensive shipping option (even if slower) for such inexpensive items?


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

does anybody have the thread dimensions of the bleed screw?


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## JankyEric (Aug 1, 2021)

bostik said:


> Hello, sorry to bother you, but as I'm located in Italy, the shipping costs almost 2 times the bleed cup. Any chance that you may arrange a less expensive shipping option (even if slower) for such inexpensive items?


Thanks for your interest! I don't know of any less expensive shipping options unfortunately. But I am open to suggestions.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Cup arrived really quickly and is nicely made.

It doesn't fit my Onyx as it has a six point fitting at the bottom like a socket.

I have one of the newer (running change maybe?) Onyx SC which has a circular fitting for the bleed cup.










Cup:










Bottom of the cup:










That's the way it goes and I'm happy to support someone making something like this which I find pretty cool as that isn't something I have the skills or setup to do myself.

In looking at the Diamond service manual the bleed screw for the Onyx SC vs Diamond looks different.

Diamond looks more like a small cylinder shape where the Onyx one is more of a tapered head.

DVO should be able to tell you the thread pitch on it for the Diamond I would think.


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## JankyEric (Aug 1, 2021)

silentG said:


> Cup arrived really quickly and is nicely made.
> 
> It doesn't fit my Onyx as it has a six point fitting at the bottom like a socket.
> 
> ...


Bummer! If you can snag a measurement of the inner circular part on the ONYX I would be stoked to print you an updated version.


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Awesome, grabbing calipers and equipping safety squints!


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Over the winter I built up a new Ripley with a DVO Diamond D1 and Topaz. I’m probably 8 rides into the setup process and I’m loving the Topaz. The fork so far I haven’t found the same comfort from.

Reading through this entire thread I’ve noticed something that might apply to me. There have been several Clydes who run lower psi than recommended. I’m guessing this could be because we are also tall, which puts more weight over the rear wheel. I’ve noticed the same thing in my motocross machine settings over the last 25 years. I’m 6’3” and 218lbs.

With my Diamond setup so far I’ve been all over the map. Starting with their recommended setting which were too stiff I’ve been moving softer. I keep going back to be sure if the progress I feel. But I’ve hit a point where nothing I do is fixing the issue I have which is lack of plushness in the first half of the stroke.

I’ve gone from 130psi, OTT11, R12, and multiple HS and LS comp setting to now 100psi, OTT8, r16 etc. 
Even at this pressure I am not using full travel though I’m getting close, the top of the stroke feels somewhat good but overall I’m looking for a more plush linear stroke. (The fork will bottom against the crown if I remove the air).
I don’t know where to go from here, but I’m going to try going back up on air a bit and then experiment with the OTT maxed out.
Guessing I’ll end up working the shim stack at some point though. Any suggestions are welcome, thanks.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I’d highly recommend dropping the lowers if you haven’t already. My fork from new had a slickoleum oil mix on the ott side and barely any oil in the damper side. Take it apart, oil the rings, lube the seals and bushings with slickoleum and add oil to the lowers. I like fox gold, DVO uses 7.5 wt stock.

Set your OTT, at your weight, you will likely use all rotations of OTT (all the way clockwise) Adjust OTT without any air in the fork.

Now fill up the air side. For a starting pressure I’d try 125 psi. See how much travel your using while riding. I like to have about 15-20% in reserve, and only use full travel on rides where I hit my biggest features.

Once you have your air pressure dialed you can fine tune your OTT. The ott should not cause any travel loss. If you pick up your front end, you should have full travel (ie the fork isn’t being sucked down by the ott spring). If you notice you can pull on the lowers, to reveal more of the stanchion your running too much ott. Air down the fork and back off the ott a bit. Ideally you want the air pressure and ott perfectly balance, so that the ott is just helping you into the travel.

Save adding HSC for last. You should only be adding 2-3 rotations of HSC if needed.

Doing that has got me the best performance so far out of the fork. I’m still not 100% happy with it in some situations (fast chunky trails), but it’s the best I’ve been able to get it.

Im 60kg and run 95 psi. 100 psi seems way too soft for you.

Try all that and see how it goes


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

A few general notes about running the diamond at lower travel (<160mm). The recommended settings are based on the fork at 160mm of travel so the recommended pressures will be low for running the fork at 130mm on the Ripley to get the same spring force at bottom out. In turn, the OTT spring is further away from the piston at top out, so you will likely want to run a higher OTT number than DVO recommends.
Echoing Ripbros advice I would 1st recommend doing a lowers service at a minimum, it probably will make sense to disassemble the air spring to make sure that is all lubed up and slick.
Even 125 psi seems very low for your weight running the fork at 130/140mm travel. I ran a diamond on my last bike @ 140mm travel and had the pressure at 125 psi for my 185ish lb rider weight. I suspect that you're running too low of a pressure and relying on the springs progression to hold you up, making the fork harsh since you're not using all the travel.
My recommendation is to start with a higher PSI (140?), set the OTT to max and then unwind it until the fork stops sucking down into its travel at rest (remember not to adjust the OTT with air in the fork). Unwind the LSC and HSC all the way and see what you get. For rebound you can start with DVOs setting, but use the air pressure not rider weight. I found these numbers to be slow (too much damping) but in the general ball park and a decent starting point.


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## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

My apologies, totally missed that you were running it on a ripley, and at lower travel. My recommendations were based on running it at 160 mm. I don't have any experience with running it with less travel.


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ripbro, thank you very much for that detailed advice. I’ll give that all a shot and report back.


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Whatsupcountry, thank you too. When I’ve run the fork at 130psi I’m leaving two inches of unused travel (my fork is set at 140mm). I’m a smoother style rider but pretty aggressive as well. I’m left thinking my height puts my weight further back than average or that my fork might need some service (although it is new). I’ll study what Ripbro said and do the lower service and see if that changes it and brings it more in line with the norm.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hellion1 said:


> Whatsupcountry, thank you too. When I’ve run the fork at 130psi I’m leaving two inches of unused travel (my fork is set at 140mm). I’m a smoother style rider but pretty aggressive as well. I’m left thinking my height puts my weight further back than average or that my fork might need some service (although it is new). I’ll study what Ripbro said and do the lower service and see if that changes it and brings it more in line with the norm.


Leaving two inches makes it a 90mm fork! That's a lot you're leaving on the table.


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Exactly! If I run the fork at 100psi I can use pretty much all the travel but it still feels too firm in the first half of the stroke. Going back to my original post, reading this entire thread there were several guys even heavier than me with the same issue. They never mentioned their height but I’m wondering if that’s got a lot to do with it (taller rider, seatpost way up there putting more weight over the rear and less into the front). 

I’m riding today. I’m going to try going back up to 120-125psi and max the OTT and see how it feels. If that doesn’t work I’ll research how to service the lowers to try and slick everything up in there.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

hellion1 said:


> Exactly! If I run the fork at 100psi I can use pretty much all the travel but it still feels too firm in the first half of the stroke. Going back to my original post, reading this entire thread there were several guys even heavier than me with the same issue. They never mentioned their height but I’m wondering if that’s got a lot to do with it (taller rider, seatpost way up there putting more weight over the rear and less into the front).
> 
> I’m riding today. I’m going to try going back up to 120-125psi and max the OTT and see how it feels. If that doesn’t work I’ll research how to service the lowers to try and slick everything up in there.


Try higher pressures. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

I’ve tried all the way up to 130 and 11 on OTT.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Call DVO and speak to Ronnie or one of the other techs they can help you with settings over the phone. I'm 225# running about 115 psi the other settings I can't remember but I have my fork at 150mm and leave about 10mm of travel on my typical rides. I started at DVO's recommended settings for my weight and made some small adjustments to get it where I like it and it feels the same as the rear does.
Here's a good video that I used to set up my suspension;


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

Rngspnr, you’re in line with what I’m finding. You’re a little heavier than I and run 10psi more than my best setting so far. How tall are you?

Today I tried 130 psi with max OTT and it was so firm it just wouldn’t budge on small stuff like roots or softball size rocks. Went back to 105 and it’s fairly good but still not plush. Go down to 100 or below and you can feel that you’re riding too low into the travel.

Guess I’m to the point where I need to open it up and make sure everything is lubed up properly. I don’t feel like this is the issue though because when you air it down and cycle it in the garage it feels very smooth.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Im a bit pudgier than you at 5'10". I will say that setting initial sag is a bit different than with other brands. What I do to set sag is get into the attack position to load the fork and get off the bike as carefully as I can and take my reading from there. These forks are very pressure sensitive and a couple pounds either way can make them feel weird. What I can tell you is that you should try to get your fork to feel the as close as your rear shock as possible. I've had three FS bikes and have had to swap to a different rear shock due to being a Clyde to get the mid stroke support that I need and then tune my fork to feel as close to the rear as possible. Most FS bikes come with a rear shock that is tuned for riders in the 150-180# range. I am beyond that range so aftermarket shocks work best for me. I'm at max OTT as recommended by one of the guys at DVO other than that my settings are pretty close to DVO's recommendation aside from me setting the fork according to the video I posted. If you are very plush at the rear it could possibly be making your fork feel harsh compared to your rear shock. I try to tune my suspension as close as I can to the frequency that feels right to my body. I know this sounds like some guru kinda **** but I do know when I get on a buddies bike whether it feels good or not. Just a final point once you get your front/rear feel correct you'll instantly know. I hope you can get this fork to feel good because once you do you'll really enjoy it. Current bike is a medium Revel Rascal with fork set at 150mm with a DVO Topaz at the rear and it's by far the best set up I've had. Also once again I suggest giving DVO a call and discussing this with them, they are great about helping with tuning their products and also one of the few companies that encourage people to do their own service/tuning.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

hellion1 said:


> Rngspnr, you’re in line with what I’m finding. You’re a little heavier than I and run 10psi more than my best setting so far. How tall are you?
> 
> Today I tried 130 psi with max OTT and it was so firm it just wouldn’t budge on small stuff like roots or softball size rocks. Went back to 105 and it’s fairly good but still not plush. Go down to 100 or below and you can feel that you’re riding too low into the travel.
> 
> Guess I’m to the point where I need to open it up and make sure everything is lubed up properly. I don’t feel like this is the issue though because when you air it down and cycle it in the garage it feels very smooth.


Have you checked your bushings?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hellion1 (Nov 2, 2020)

If you put say 75psi in the fork you can tell that everything works smoothly. There’s no bushing play and no stiction. I might just be a strange case here but I do know what I like. Been mountain biking since 87’ and racing moto since 78’. I want the fork to feel linear. It should move easily in the first half of the stroke and naturally progress near the end of the stroke. As it is, it only moves freely at 100psi and even then it’s still not bottoming, comes about 1/2” from it though.

I’ll do a service to make sure everything is lubed up and in its proper place, I’ll report back if I find anything.


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## wab1234 (Jun 24, 2015)

Well after pretty well reading most of the 1450 posts and a year of tinkering I have finally found the magic setup! I have a 160mm Diamond D1. I ride aggressive angled hardtails and was finding compression spiking in stock configuration. With a hardtail on fast bumps or loam holes, the ride was very harsh. Plush is a relative thing but done right, a decently tuned fork can mute a lot of the feedback coming from the hardtail end. IMHO, the suspension dynamics on a hardtail is complex. As the fork goes over the bump, the fork compresses, the rear hits the bump milliseconds later, forcing the rear up and pushing the handlebar forward and down. The fork is having to work much harder to not give the rider feedback through the bars to your hands and arms. Anyway, I figured to counter this feedback, I would do a piston flip and shim mod to open the circuit more. Still harsh and spiking. I then, put the piston to the stock position, which improved the ride somewhat. I left it there for 6 months. I recently got a Kona Honzo ST and one day rode it fast on some rough logging road. The fork was so harsh that I couldn’t brake anymore from hands being numb. I started looking for another fork as a replacement throwing in the towel, but I decided to reread the forum on my harshness issue and decided on full tuning restart keeping in mind to tune for a hardtail. Return to the stock shim tune, piston in the modified position, more air for a sag of 15%, less OTT, faster rebound. Oh. My. God! Finally the fork rides sublime! More mid support but still getting full travel, better grip and I have way more confidence hitting single and double blacks! Here’s my setup information that I’m very happy with.

Piston flip
Return to stock shim stack
19% sag - 31mm
OTT - 8 turns from open
Air - 120-130 - use 125psi
Rebound 15 clicks from closed
HSC - 1/2 turn from open
LSC -4 (5 on steep grades over 40% with root steps)


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

wab1234 said:


> Well after pretty well reading most of the 1450 posts and a year of tinkering I have finally found the magic setup! I have a 160mm Diamond D1. I ride aggressive angled hardtails and was finding compression spiking in stock configuration. With a hardtail on fast bumps or loam holes, the ride was very harsh. Plush is a relative thing but done right, a decently tuned fork can mute a lot of the feedback coming from the hardtail end. IMHO, the suspension dynamics on a hardtail is complex. As the fork goes over the bump, the fork compresses, the rear hits the bump milliseconds later, forcing the rear up and pushing the handlebar forward and down. The fork is having to work much harder to not give the rider feedback through the bars to your hands and arms. Anyway, I figured to counter this feedback, I would do a piston flip and shim mod to open the circuit more. Still harsh and spiking. I then, put the piston to the stock position, which improved the ride somewhat. I left it there for 6 months. I recently got a Kona Honzo ST and one day rode it fast on some rough logging road. The fork was so harsh that I couldn’t brake anymore from hands being numb. I started looking for another fork as a replacement throwing in the towel, but I decided to reread the forum on my harshness issue and decided on full tuning restart keeping in mind to tune for a hardtail. Return to the stock shim tune, piston in the modified position, more air for a sag of 15%, less OTT, faster rebound. Oh. My. God! Finally the fork rides sublime! More mid support but still getting full travel, better grip and I have way more confidence hitting single and double blacks! Here’s my setup information that I’m very happy with.
> 
> Piston flip
> Return to stock shim stack
> ...


I found out with my first Diamond that if your set up doesn't feel right to go back to factory recommended settings and start over with tiny adjustments. The one thing I know about the two I've had is that they are pretty sensitive to small PSI changes.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

I found it interesting swapping my diamond from my full suspension bike to my hardtail. Went out with the normal settings and was bottoming out hard on fairly mild features With the same travel (140) I had to up the psi by about 10%, add a click or two of LSC and less OTT and rebound. I think because all the energy is going into the fork you need to run a harder setup and speed up the rebound so the fork can recover and preserve the geo.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

Owners of Diamond D1 29 and 203 mm rotor, please tell me: is there a brake adapter 4holes for caliper ??


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

ka81ua said:


> Owners of Diamond D1 29 and 203 mm rotor, please tell me: is there a brake adapter 4holes for caliper ??


This is the one I have on mine.









Amazon.com : Shimano F203P/P Disc Brake Adaptor : Bike Brake Mounts And Adapters : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : Shimano F203P/P Disc Brake Adaptor : Bike Brake Mounts And Adapters : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

Rngspnr said:


> This is the one I have on mine.


Could you, please, take a photo of your setup there?
Thank you!!

and some specs: name of caliper, rotor,...


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

Rngspnr said:


> Amazon.com : Shimano F203P/P Disc Brake Adaptor : Bike Brake Mounts And Adapters : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : Shimano F203P/P Disc Brake Adaptor : Bike Brake Mounts And Adapters : Sports & Outdoors
> ...


strange... 
I got the same one on my Marzocchi 350 NCR with 160 mm PM, and I've got Shimano Saint M820 caliper with Magura MDR-P 203 mm rotor, and it all fit perfect..

Diamond D1 29 has 180 mm PM, so, how can this adapter fit?.. hmm...


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

My D1 has 160mm post mounts. I use the SRAM/Avid version of that adapter (40mm) for a 200mm rotor.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

flgfish said:


> My D1 has 160mm post mounts


now I'm confused...
for some reason I was thinking that Diamond D1 29 boost 160mm 44mm black, and DVO has 180 mm PM ... But, now I see - BRAKE MOUNTING Direct Mount 160mm





Diamond D1 – DVO Suspension







dvosuspension.com





sorry to disrurb you guys, I guess my mistake...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, that explains my confusion too


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

flgfish said:


> My D1 has 160mm post mounts. I


what version d'you have ? Newest (with decals like on official DVO right now) or previous or ... ?


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

as one of you (I hope) - near-future owner of the newest Diamon D1 - would be very greatfull for any recommendations/tips/advices/usefull-tech-information/experience in using that fork.
Like, as I understood - adjusting OTT possible ONLE after letting all the air out of air-spring.

etc..


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

ka81ua said:


> what version d'you have ? Newest (with decals like on official DVO right now) or previous or ... ?


Mine came on a Fezzari in May 2022. Decals look like the current version.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

ka81ua said:


> Could you, please, take a photo of your setup there?
> Thank you!!
> 
> and some specs: name of caliper, rotor,...


Here's my set up.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

Need some hep with fork, please..

Brand new out of the box DVO Diamond D1 29" boost 160 mm.
OTT - 3 full turns from Wide-Open.
Inflated it with 120 psi. 

So, I measured travel with ruler - ~163 mm.
Pushed fork down, let it go up. Measuring travel - it's 155 mm. I pull the crown up and it goes, till ~163 mm.

WHY ?


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

ka81ua said:


> Need some hep with fork, please..
> 
> Brand new out of the box DVO Diamond D1 29" boost 160 mm.
> OTT - 3 full turns from Wide-Open.
> ...


Do the same test with ott at wide open. It's possible that the amount of ott you used relative to 120psi is enough to suck it down a little. (Normal). The more turns of ott, the more preload on the negative spring. Btw even at 0 turns, there's still some amount of negative spring engaged. 

Secondly, a new fork may need bushings broken in, so you may have a little more drag right now,preventing the fork from getting to full extension in your test.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

chowfon said:


> a new fork may need bushings broken in,


could you, please, explain it ? Do I need to do any kind of service about it ?..

Thanx!


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## chowfon (Jun 2, 2009)

ka81ua said:


> could you, please, explain it ? Do I need to do any kind of service about it ?..
> 
> Thanx!


the bushings may be a little tight because they are new. just ride the bike/fork and that should 'break it in'.

however, if you are concerned that everything is tight because of lack of oil.. then you can perform a lower leg service and confirm if there was oil in there to begin with. hopefully you have new oil on hand to complete the service.


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## chuzzle (Oct 23, 2020)

I'm not sure if this is tight bushings or needing an out of the box service (which would be annoying as the fork is brand new and I don't want to dump more money into it new lol..).

Compression isn't smooth. You can feel and hear friction and it kinda feel notched (almost a paper on metal sound). It gets full travel and the sag set up correctly but just isn't smooth at all.

I haven't taken it out you due to this and not wanting to ride on a potentially dry fork.

I've been riding a Sapphire 34 for the past 2 years and that has been super smooth with no stiction.

What are the signs of tight bushings vs no oil?


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

chuzzle said:


> I'm not sure if this is tight bushings or needing an out of the box service (which would be annoying as the fork is brand new and I don't want to dump more money into it new lol..).
> 
> Compression isn't smooth. You can feel and hear friction and it kinda feel notched (almost a paper on metal sound). It gets full travel and the sag set up correctly but just isn't smooth at all.
> 
> ...


Contact DVO they'll get you sorted out.


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## chuzzle (Oct 23, 2020)

Rngspnr said:


> Contact DVO they'll get you sorted out.


I've done that. They said 'Ride it more and get back to us if a few good rides doesn't resolve it'. I'll check back in after some riding.


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## chuzzle (Oct 23, 2020)

It got a bit better with a couple of rides but I decided to check lowers and the damper side was mostly dry. After servicing it is just as smooth as the Sapphire.


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## maxants33 (4 mo ago)

Great thread.
I just got a DVO diamond D2.
Only been on one short ride. Yet to dial in the air pressure and settings.
Bit concerned to read how many people found their forks were not very well oiled from new

Question; did most owners find their DVOs were dry inside? Would you suggest just stripping and adding oil as a default measure on a new DVO fork?
Many thanks!

Edit: my flat is too small for a fork teardown. Sadly means I cannot just pop it open and check. Would be a local bike shop job...


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