# How can I ship my ebike across the country? Lithium ion seems to be an issue!



## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

I seem to be hitting road blocks every way I turn! Bike flights won’t ship it, FedEx won’t ship it nor UPS. They all want the battery packed and shipped separately and by a certified hazmat handler. It came to my local bike shop from specialized all in one box via ground with no special treatment. Bought it in the hopes of covering some ground in Phoenix with my buddy but getting it there from Boston is posing a challenge!

Anyone ship theirs successfully? If so, how? 

Thanks!!!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Fedex will ship them. They just automatically say no because of all the cheap and dangerous chinese batteries out there. 

Along with whoever you talked to just doesnt want to deal with actually helping you. 

All it takes is proper packaging and lithium battery warning labels. Nothing more.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

RAKC - We don't care where the batteries are produced, but we do care that compliance with regulations are met, as ALL Lithium batteries present a very tangible danger due to the amount of energy contained within.

While the clerks at the shipping counters tend to be less than knowledgeable about hazmat requirements, this battery may not be shippable by the OP. Any Li-ion battery exceeding 300wh (100wh for air) requires full hazardous material marking and documentation, which can only be performed by certified hazmat shippers.

If it's a medium battery (100-300wh), it can be shipped without a hazmat contract, via ground only. Place the required lithium warning labels on the package and call it a day, but make certain you have a good bead on the proper markings, and pack according to the requirements as the fines for screwing up even lightly regulated materials can be unpleasant.

Relevant information starting with page 4...


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

Flamingtaco said:


> RAKC - We don't care where the batteries are produced, but we do care that compliance with regulations are met, as ALL Lithium batteries present a very tangible danger due to the amount of energy contained within.
> 
> While the clerks at the shipping counters tend to be less than knowledgeable about hazmat requirements, this battery may not be shippable by the OP. Any Li-ion battery exceeding 300wh (100wh for air) requires full hazardous material marking and documentation, which can only be performed by certified hazmat shippers.
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in!

I have seen that pdf. Like your saying the 504wh size of the battery seems to be the issue. I wish that the shippers would be more helpful suggesting a local hazmat packer.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Not trying to derail, but we seem to have knowledgeable people here, so if there's substantial fines, how do the OEMs get away with not shipping properly? Seems like a questionable business practice if you have a lawyers on call


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Harryman said:


> Not trying to derail, but we seem to have knowledgeable people here, so if there's substantial fines, how do the OEMs get away with not shipping properly? Seems like a questionable business practice if you have a lawyers on call


What makes you think they aren't shipping properly?


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## dkw (Jan 14, 2018)

I bought a spare 500 watt hour Bosch battery a few months ago, and it was shipped to my front door. The packaging seemed normal, but there was special labeling on the box.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Edit: brainfart. Please ignore.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

dkw said:


> I bought a spare 500 watt hour Bosch battery a few months ago, and it was shipped to my front door. The packaging seemed normal, but there was special labeling on the box.


The UPS rules for batteries shipped by themselves (e.g. not shipped with the bike) is a 30kg weight limit.

Most 500wH batteries weigh less than 4kg, so well under the limit.


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## dkw (Jan 14, 2018)

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now. Still wish there was a way to ship my whole bike internationally for vacations and such.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Deep Thought said:


> What makes you think they aren't shipping properly?


Because its a 504wh battery and the other posters said this:



BMJ said:


> It came to my local bike shop from specialized all in one box via ground with no special treatment.





Flamingtaco said:


> While the clerks at the shipping counters tend to be less than knowledgeable about hazmat requirements, this battery may not be shippable by the OP. Any Li-ion battery exceeding 300wh (100wh for air) requires full hazardous material marking and documentation, which can only be performed by certified hazmat shippers.[/URL]


I'd normally expect any of the larger companies to be on top of shipping regs to eliminate their liability. Just wondering if they are either not knowledgable or have some sort of waiver.

Eric already answered the question, so I appreciate the info.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Harryman said:


> I'd normally expect any of the larger companies to be on top of shipping regs to eliminate their liability. Just wondering if they are either not knowledgable or have some sort of waiver.


We have no way to know if a shipment is in violation if there are no markings, labels, or paperwork indicating hazardous content. Most employees are only trained in recognition of hazmat markings and internal acceptance labels/markings. They forward these shipments to employees trained to check documentation, markings, labels, and outer packaging, but these employees are not in customer facing locations.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

EricTheDood said:


> The UPS rules for batteries shipped by themselves (e.g. not shipped with the bike) is a 30kg weight limit.
> 
> Most 500wH batteries weigh less than 4kg, so well under the limit.


No, no, just, no. The 66Lb (30Kg) limit is for the WHOLE PACKAGE.

UN3480 - _SMALL_ Li-Ion Batteries or Cells Alone - 66LbG for *PER PACKAGE*, 20Wh limit *PER CELL*, 100Wh limit *PER BATTERY*.

UN3480 - _MEDIUM_ Li-Ion Batteries or Cells Alone - 66LbG for *PER PACKAGE*, >20 <60Wh *PER CELL*, >100 <300Wh *PER BATTERY*.

UN3480 - _LARGE_ Li-Ion Batteries or Cells Alone - 70Lb *PER PACKAGE*, >60Wh *PER CELL*, >300Wh *PER BATTERY*.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

EricTheDood said:


> Step 1: only ship via ground. Don't even bother trying to air ship batteries.
> 
> Step 2: UPS rules on ground shipping lithium batteries:
> 
> ...


dkw bought a 500wh battery, BMJ is trying to ship a 504wh battery. Both of those batteries exceed the 100wh for which you selected DOES NOT EXCEED in your flow decision. Are you just pointing out the requirements to ship without a hazmat contract? I covered that in my first post.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Flamingtaco said:


> dkw bought a 500wh battery, BMJ is trying to ship a 504wh battery. Both of those batteries exceed the 100wh for which you selected DOES NOT EXCEED in your flow decision. Are you just pointing out the requirements to ship without a hazmat contract? I covered that in my first post.


Brainfart on my end. Thanks for catching that.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

FME ordering for myself or friends, the rules delineated above are not being satisfied by some large companies and mid-size ones too.


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Harryman said:


> Because its a 504wh battery and the other posters said this:
> 
> I'd normally expect any of the larger companies to be on top of shipping regs to eliminate their liability. Just wondering if they are either not knowledgable or have some sort of waiver.
> 
> Eric already answered the question, so I appreciate the info.


The manufacturers have a dangerous goods contract. The regulations being discussed here are mostly regarding shipping without one, the consumer route.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Deep Thought said:


> The manufacturers have a dangerous goods contract. The regulations being discussed here are mostly regarding shipping without one, the consumer route.


Thanks; didn't realize that type of "waiver" was available.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

fos'l said:


> FME ordering for myself or friends, the rules delineated above are not being satisfied by some large companies and mid-size ones too.


Just to clarify, a dangerous goods contract is not an exemption, it is a requirement to be able to ship more highly regulated materials. Shipments that require diamond labels, shipping papers, etc. Without a dangerous goods contract, you can ship dry ice, batteries, and consumer commodities, with limits to the amount that can be shipped per package.

I cannot comment on the shipments you have seen, but yes, some companies do not satisfy the requirements we have discussed, and other requirements as well. We catch these shipments at times due to poor packing (contents falling out) or damage to the outer carton that reveals the contents. We also watch out for flag words while processing exports, as shippers are required to declare the full content of their shipments.

The VAST majority of people do not know that hazardous materials (aka dangerous goods) are ubiquitous. Their main exposure has been liquid haulers displaying diamond labels, and failure videos on youtube. "Oooh, chemicals! That stuff probably explodes!". They don't know the difference between combustible, flammable, and explosive. They don't know what a diamond label signifies. They don't know that they are surrounded by
materials in their homes, even in their pockets, that are hazardous enough to have special regulations for transportation.

The majority of issues occur when a company starts shipping hazmat, starts shipping a new hazmat, gets a new employee, or has a low frequency..

1) New hazmat shipper. If you've never shipped hazmat, it's likely you do not know that you can't just breakout the bottles from that pallet of fryer cleaner you just received and ship out to your customers in umarked cartons. You don't know because you're a $9.50/hr shipping clerk and no one has told you otherwise, because the shipping department head is a $10.50/hr employee that was trained by the previous $10.50/hr shipping manager and does nothing to further his/her knowledge because $10.50hr.

2) New hazmat material. Shipping a new material that has different marking/labeling requirements than what you have shipped to date usually results in violations. Most companies that ship hazmat to end users only carry a handful of regulated materials, and they get in a knowledge rut of what they ship. See #4.

3) New employee. Most companies that ship hazmat to end users only send two employees to training, because $$. When one of their two trained employees departs for greener waters, they often will not send a replacement to training until they get notice their remaining employee is departing, leaving them with a freshly trained employee that has to learn the ropes on their own.

4) Frequency. We've got a handful of hazmat contracts at my operation that ship a handful of hazmat per year. If you don't use it, you lose it. Due to this, many take pictures of how their package should appear, which works fine, until the regulations change, or they get a new hazmat and think they can just duplicate the other package with the correct diamond label, or they think the same weight limit applies, etc.

All of this said, there are exemptions to marking and labeling requirements that the shipments you have seen may be in compliance with. Some are general exemptions that any can use, others are granted by the DOT/FAA to the shipper. The packages you saw may have had exemption markings or labels you did not recognize. For example, a carton may have a pre-printed DOT-E exemption number on one side.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

FT, thanks for the information.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

So, here’s where I’m at. FedEx and ups wont touch it unless it’s prepared by a hazmat certified packer. There’s one an hour from me but they want the spec sheet from specialized. Specialized sent me the spec sheets but for the smallest 420wh battery they make. Wrong paperwork so now I’m waiting on the correct info. In the mean time “Bikeflights.com” says that I can take an online hazmat course for proper packing, labeling and handling of lithium ion batteries and be allowed to ship it all through them if I certify. The course is a 90 minute course that runs $200-. Certificate is good for three years. Once I get the proper paperwork from specialized I’ll be able to find out how much the third party hazmat people will want round trip so I can make the next move. 

Such fun!!!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BMJ said:


> So, here's where I'm at. FedEx and ups wont touch it unless it's prepared by a hazmat certified packer. There's one an hour from me but they want the spec sheet from specialized. Specialized sent me the spec sheets but for the smallest 420wh battery they make. Wrong paperwork so now I'm waiting on the correct info. In the mean time "Bikeflights.com" says that I can take an online hazmat course for proper packing, labeling and handling of lithium ion batteries and be allowed to ship it all through them if I certify. The course is a 90 minute course that runs $200-. Certificate is good for three years. Once I get the proper paperwork from specialized I'll be able to find out how much the third party hazmat people will want round trip so I can make the next move.
> 
> Such fun!!!


Crazy! I hope to heck's sake that someone figures out a kind of bicycle that you can just take with you on the plane or ship without all this hassle. Like one without a battery and stuff.


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## KiwiPhil (Jun 2, 2008)

vikb said:


> Crazy! I hope to heck's sake that someone figures out a kind of bicycle that you can just take with on the plane or ship without all this hassle. Like one without a battery and stuff.


Not as Crazy as someone that keeps coming back into the Ebike threads, just to wind people up and make out that he is some kind of hero!!!!!!! How about letting people ask and answer legitimate questions without your stupid statements? Grow up will ya.....some people are interested in this and sick of theads being derailed by clowns like you!!!



vikb said:


> I wear my normal day-to-day underwear. Synthetic boxer briefs.


HA HA .... look everyone, Superman does really wear normal underwear lol


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I think it's pretty legitimate to point out that there is a solution to shipping a bike for vacation that doesn't involve hazmat procedures. I'm not saying you shouldn't ride a motorized bike to your heart's content at other times, but if it gets that difficult to travel with an electrified bike it is an option to ride one of those old fashion human powered rigs for the time you are away from home.

As a suggestion to solve the problem in this OP it's not a totally crazy thought.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

vikb said:


> I think it's pretty legitimate to point out that there is a solution to shipping a bike for vacation that doesn't involve hazmat procedures. I'm not saying you shouldn't ride a motorized bike to your heart's content at other times, but if it gets that difficult to travel with an electrified bike it is an option to ride one of those old fashion human powered rigs for the time you are away from home.
> 
> As a suggestion to solve the problem in this OP it's not a totally crazy thought.


I'm looking forward to covering a lot of ground in the AZ area over my 6 days out there. My knee is good for 7 miles at best on the first day with a non powered bike. That leaves me trail side the rest of my visit. Having experienced locally how much less discomfort I have riding longer distances and multiple days in a row with an ebike, I'm excited to bring this opportunity with me.

My local bike shop suggests I find an ebike dealer out there to rent one for the week. Probably can and I imagine it'll cost the same monetarily but with out the frustration. If I can figure this out, I've always preferred to be on my own steed.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

Besides, I’m a stubborn problem solver. Maybe my frustrations working this out will smooth things out for others.


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## KiwiPhil (Jun 2, 2008)

vikb said:


> I think it's pretty legitimate to point out that there is a solution to shipping a bike for vacation that doesn't involve hazmat procedures. I'm not saying you shouldn't ride a motorized bike to your heart's content at other times, but if it gets that difficult to travel with an electrified bike it is an option to ride one of those old fashion human powered rigs for the time you are away from home.
> 
> As a suggestion to solve the problem in this OP it's not a totally crazy thought.


This thread was not about shipping standard MTB's around, and people dont need the likes of yourself to state the obvious. BMJ stated he wanted to get his EMTB shipped, and i'm in no doubt that he has the intellegance to figure out that he could quiet easily ship a standard MTB.
Your comment was nothing but a flippant remark to derail the thread, and now your suggesting it was a legitimate point........please, your doing nothing but trying to cover up your stupid remark.


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## KiwiPhil (Jun 2, 2008)

BMJ said:


> Besides, I'm a stubborn problem solver. Maybe my frustrations working this out will smooth things out for others.


Its a very good question BMJ, and I would think many, like myself, are interested in the answer.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BMJ said:


> My local bike shop suggests I find an ebike dealer out there to rent one for the week. Probably can and I imagine it'll cost the same monetarily but with out the frustration. If I can figure this out, I've always preferred to be on my own steed.


You don't need to rent a bike. You only need to rent a battery. Find a local dealer for your brand and see if they'll hook you up.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

BMJ, is your bike an OEM or DIY. Reason is that ebikesca produces <100 w-h battery modules that can be shipped by air AFAIK, then "grouped" into a battery pack. It would be easy to hook them up to a DIY system since (I think) they employ easily-found Andersen's for connectors.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

Specialized levo bike. The brains are in the battery.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BMJ said:


> Specialized levo bike. The brains are in the battery.


So rent another Levo battery. Are Spesh e-bike dealers renting these bikes? If so they have batteries as well.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Rent on site? Or just pedal on site?


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

Got this quote this morning to pack and ship the battery “one way” by a hazmat certified shipper per fedex request. Double that for round trip.

“Hi Jay,
We can ship this for $295.00

Thank you.
Rick 

Craters and Freighters of Boston”

Looks like I may take the online training course “bikeflights.com” recommends. Or source a rental battery’s at the other end.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Thanks for the info. If my wife and I decide to e-MTB someplace else (legal of course), guess we'll drive there and bring our bikes with us or rent bikes there. I realize this isn't feasible for you.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

My shop is still insisting I shop it as a regular bike and not claim it’s ebike status. I’ve decided to bite the bullet and take the online certification that “bikefights.com” requires to do this the right way.

Currently waiting on the link from their partner in this “labelmaster” to proceed. I’ll let you know how it goes.🤞🏻


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

Well, that was a pain in the butt but I passed certification with a 95%. Whoohoo! 

Now I’ve just got to get my certification linked to my “bike flights” account and hopefully good to go.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Here's the 'solution' for those wanting to ship e-bike batteries in the future:

Make arrangements to ship the battery via ground service. Ship to a LBS to hold for you, or the hotel, or whatever.

Shipping Li-ion batteries that are greater than 300wh via Ground Service:

Use internal cartons for each battery that protects the terminals from shorting.
Use an outer carton that satisfies UN Spec PGII requirements.
Apply a class 9 label (or new class 9 Li-Ion battery label) to the outer carton,
Up to 70lbs per package.

No contract required, no training required, use the saved dough to buy a second battery so you don't have any downtime while the other battery is in transit.

Be sure to double-check the rules right before you ship. The labeling requirements have evolved quickly the past two years, and while we are probably settling in on the final revision for a number of years, rules can change at any rime, and shippers are responsible for knowing the requirements, even those that are shipping non-contract dangerous goods.


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

So my bike with battery is in route to AZ and should arrive Monday.

Shipped with Bikeflights and their labeling. Super cost effective! Cost me $67. Each way before insurance. They even picked it up at my house. To maximize things even more I loaded up the box with all my gear and extras. Came in at 92 pounds! No need to pay for checked luggage fees when I board the plane.

Ups and fedex wanted near $180- each way before insurance. The savings covered the online hazmat course that bikeflights required.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Glad you were able to get this resolved so you can ride. Maybe some future date they will standardize battery packs for e-bikes and you can easily rent one at most any bike shop.


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## baldtp (Aug 5, 2020)

*Huge appreciation!*

really want to thank Flamingtaco and BMJ...you have shed more knowledge on how I am going to get my 2 e-bikes from Atlanta to Sydney then about 25 people in the shipping business.

Looks like I need to take the certification because the battery on my Rocky Mountain is incorporated int eh tube and you have to almost taket he bike completely apart to get to it...I could do that easily but putting it back together is another story 

Hoping the laws have not changed since this 2018 thread


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

AFAIK, current regs require a HAZMAT broker (or take the course) to ship >300 wh. Plus, it can't go by air. A large fine for infractions (I've heard $50,000).


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Honestly you should also consider buying a battery at the destination location, using it, then selling it in the same country. Unless you have some bizarre brand, you should have zero problems finding a shop who can do that for you. And the cost and complexity will be FAR less than shipping your battery.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Honestly you should also consider buying a battery at the destination location, using it, then selling it in the same country. Unless you have some bizarre brand, you should have zero problems finding a shop who can do that for you. And the cost and complexity will be FAR less than shipping your battery.


100% concur. I learned the hard way

I had to pay $568 to ship a battery from CA to HI because I had to use a special hazmat shipper - and there were only 3 hazmat shippers in the entire state of CA that are licensed to do small shipments etc. (this was about a year ago)

Also people laugh when you seek an ocean going vessel to take your dinky shipment ha ha


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> 100% concur. I learned the hard way
> 
> I had to pay $568 to ship a battery from CA to HI because I had to use a special hazmat shipper - and there were only 3 hazmat shippers in the entire state of CA that are licensed to do small shipments etc. (this was about a year ago)
> 
> Also people laugh when you seek an ocean going vessel to take your dinky shipment ha ha


Sounds like battery rentals could be a good business opportunity! Hmmm....


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## hypermaniac (Jun 2, 2008)

Flamingtaco said:


> Here's the 'solution' for those wanting to ship e-bike batteries in the future:
> 
> Make arrangements to ship the battery via ground service. Ship to a LBS to hold for you, or the hotel, or whatever.
> 
> ...


Is this still valid? Does one need to be hazmat certified to prepare the packaging or can i do it without taking the online course? Thanks for the info anyways!


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