# Camelbak Skyline 10 LR vs the usual long and narrow



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

In general, I hate waist straps when I'm riding. So much so that I cut them off my last pack, an Osprey Syncro 10. (Which is a great pack, btw.) For most rides, I've just put spares in a wedge pack, tools in a jersey pocket, and water in a bottle.

But I'm doing something a little different with my riding this year. I'm not planning to race and I live right next to a trail system with a lot of vert and lots of fun flow trails. So I picked up a longer travel bike with a dropper post and no room for a bottle cage. Now instead of storing most things on it, I'm storing nothing on it and wearing a pack.

My Syncro slides forward disconcertingly when I ride off big rock drops and over table tops and things.

I thought about just buying a new webbing strap for it, but I hate working backwards. Meanwhile, people are saying that fanny packs are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't really think I'd like to use one for MTB because of the waist belt issue, so kind of a non-starter for me. It's kind of intriguing, though, and makes sense - of course it should be better to have the weight lower and closer to my CG. And I'm not made of stone. I see all the banner ads splashed all over the place with Camelbak making something with the reservoir down low and a waist belt they put some real effort into. So I figured wtf, I'll give it a shot. Picked one up yesterday.

I started my ride this morning with the waist belt buckled. That didn't last that long once I started working. (Do most people wear these down around their hips or around their natural waist? Natural waist seems very corset-like to me, but maybe a little better for stability.) I had thought that might be the case, which is part of why fanny packs are a non-starter for me. If anyone's curious, the Skyline works fine worn with just the shoulder straps, and if you use the little stretchy thing to manage the waist belt, it doesn't hang down very far or get tangled up in your rear wheel or anything.

I did hit a little rolly stuff with the waist belt unbuckled, and the pack did slide around. Go figure. It wasn't any worse than my Osprey though. Or maybe marginally so.

Riding flow trails, it's more stable than my Osprey. More stable than an Osprey or other narrow pack with a good waist belt? I dunno. The Syncro has a terrible waist belt if you don't cut it off... But the Syncro breathes incredibly well and feels really light. I think the internal frame and the mesh panel have a lot to do with that. The Camelbak's not as good that way.

I can't buckle the waist belt without stopping, so, if you're like me about them, it makes the Camelbak a pack for rides with a certain amount of stopping and starting while the Syncro doesn't suffer from being used without stopping.

It was really interesting to ride with the Camelbak today. It made me feel fairly justified both in my choice of the Osprey for a big XC ride last year that I needed more than 1.5 L of water for and also in buying this for my local ride on this new bike that doesn't take a bottle.

Bottom line: at this point, I think I like the Syncro better for a long wheels-down ride, and the Skyline better if I'm planning to catch some air and ride off bigger things.

I'm a little surprised - I thought that the Camelbak might be Better At Everything or that it might be a total disappointment.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

You are going to hear a lot of recommendations from riders who haven't used a lot of packs. I've been using them almost all the time for 20 years and ride some pretty steep terrain where some pack will come up and hit you in the back of the head. Best fit was an old Ultimate Directions that sat very low but it wore out doe so went to a Ergon BX3 that is adustable enough to sit low on my 5'9.5" frame. It has a good waist belt that I leave a little loose and it stays down low where it belongs. I bought this before the low Camelbaks came out and If I where buying today I would seriously consider one. I always hated waist straps but when it's low, over the hips and a bit loose, I don't notice it. I would get a pack that sits low every time.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I was more trying to talk a bit about the pack for other people who are considering one.

Something I hate about a lot of reviews is that I don't feel like I know where the person is coming from. I feel like I read some that sound like the person has been mountain biking for about ten minutes, or they never leave the pavement. And it's been my changing use that drove this.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

The Skyline worked great for me.

I've been thru several Camels, and have an Osprey. They all work well but I just don't like packs. So, much so that I tape a tube and co2 to the bike and slip two Allens under a cut inner tube I've slid over my bar. Rides for two hours or less I don't carry water.

That said, I was on a trip out in Moab and had some long days in the saddle so I wanted a pack. Tried the Skyline and really liked it. A benefit not mentioned is that my back felt cooler than with a regular Camel, or at least I didn't get the usual sweat spot. Otherwise it worked as advertised. I'm ok with hip belts. One issue was that it didn't hold as much gear as I thought it would/should. The weight being lower helps a lot, not only for pack stability,but you feel the weight a lot less.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeah, funny how quickly they fill.

Alternatively, funny how much one's jersey pockets can hold. I went the other way on my XC bike - it's got a couple SWAT tools and I might get a pump bracket again. Though it's on 'B' bike duty for a while; who knows how I'll feel when I'm next targeting a race series.


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

It's too bad the waist strap doesn't work for you. It's pretty integral to the whole lowrider system. I dislike most waist straps but the width of the skyline works for me and I really do forget I'm wearing it. The waist strap is a good place to store Gu or Energy beans for easy access! The pack can make your lower back pretty sweaty though.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I felt like buckling it for flow lines worked pretty well.

It would have been nice if the waist strap on the Skyline changed my mind about waist straps in general. But I wasn't necessarily expecting it to.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

anyone with lower back pain find these LR packs help with pain?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I can see how it would. I can't say I've noticed a difference, but I don't have any chronic problems with my back.

Another thing to do is just to take a critical look at what you have in your camelbak. Do you really need a pedal wrench? A million separate, full-sized tools? All 3L of water?

I was thinking about offloading my tubes and things onto my bike too, with an awesome strap or something, but couldn't find any locally and kinda ran out of steam.

I also notice that I need to sit a little more upright if I'm carrying a bunch of stuff on my back than if I have one or two items in jersey pockets and no pack.

Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Excellent review AndrwSwitch!

The syncro is the best pack I have ever owned but does indeed float up & hit the back of my head sometimes. I always wear a pack as I live for the big backcountry rides so I wear it on shorter rides as a matter of conditioning.

My syncro is wearing out & was considering the skyline. I think for me air flow trumps getting the weight low. While I haven't tried on the skyline it seems to me the width of the hip straps would be a factor in mobility/comfort. Guess I'll look elsewhere for my next pack.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

If you want a pack that will stay in place, I've got 4 letters for you: USWE. Check out their "no-dancing-monkey" technology. No more dancing monkeys. Seriously.

Here's a snippet from a "Singletrack World" review:

So whats it like in use? One word. FANTASTIC! Its a very comfortable pack to ride with-so comfortable in fact that its easy to forget you have it on. Most importantly for me there is NO movement with it on. I always found myself distracted by my CamelBak bouncing about over rough terrain and found it quite annoying. With the USWE pack there are no such issues. It sticks to your back like a limpet. Its big enough for most day long rides and the build quality seems tough without being heavy duty. The hydration system works very well and contrary to some reports seems robust. I had a big crash at speed and didn't burst or split it.
In conclusion I would go as far as saying its revolutionised riding for me! The bite-valve has a convenient clip on the harness to stop it flapping about-everything about this pack has been cleverly designed to work without intruding on the rider. Yes it is expensive, but so are most of the gadgets we buy for our sport! This is definitely one of those products where you get what you pay for.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I have ridden the original camelbak, the mule, mutliple hawgs, some other brands, the original lowriding bag (Packs | Wingnut wingnut split back) and then I just recently got a skyline 10. The skyline 10 is the closest I have found to the wingnut which as the gold standard for me. As a rigid rider who rides hard and technical terrain, I want a bag that is stable, strong and stays out the way. The wingnut always did this for me, had these great side pockets so I didn't have to take off the bag to get snacks or my camera and was stable and strong. The draw back was that it used a standard camelbak bladder which got top heavy in the lower rider sack.

The skyline has a weird shaped bladder that sits low and it much more stable in comparison to the already stable wingnut. It shares the same side pockets which holds my camera (fuji 110 waterproof thing) and snacks on the other side so I still don't have to take it off. It has a nice amount of pockets and storage areas and some external helmet clip deals.

Under technical riding it performs the same as the wingnut. It doesn't hit my helmet or bounce around which my mules and hawgs and especially the early camelbaks did exceptionally frequently and well. It can be ridden with loose waist straps without too much issue. The magnetic hose clasp is pretty cool but I rarely use that.

My only objection so far is occasionally it causes my jersey to bunch up under the pad and sometimes if feels a bit parachute like when I am off my bike. It is like a higher detailed, higher zoot wingnut, which for me was the gold standard.


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## JNKER (Feb 19, 2016)

BmanInTheD said:


> If you want a pack that will stay in place, I've got 4 letters for you: USWE. Check out their "no-dancing-monkey" technology. No more dancing monkeys. Seriously.
> 
> Here's a snippet from a "Singletrack World" review:
> 
> ...


I wish I heard about this company sooner. It pretty much spells out exactly what I want in a pack. Did you order yours directly from USWE?


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

I have two USWE packs and they're awesome, just as the above review describes. No bouncing, no side to side movement, just stays put. Plus they ride higher on your back, so your lower back and waist are exposed to airflow.

Ordered from Chain Reaction Cycles.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

JNKER said:


> I wish I heard about this company sooner. It pretty much spells out exactly what I want in a pack. Did you order yours directly from USWE?


There are several places online that sell them. Forgot which one I used, but I have 3 of them and they all work great. People always ask what they are and how to get one as they see it doesn't move at all.


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## JNKER (Feb 19, 2016)

Ok. Chain Reaction it is. I just never think of ordering from them because I'm in the US. But, it looks like there's nobody here.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

^^^ Great pack, great price, California locale:

USWE - F4 Pro Enduro 3L Hydration Pack: BTO SPORTS


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## JNKER (Feb 19, 2016)

Ahh. Thanks. I just ordered this though. Can't wait.

USWE Patriot 9 Hydration Pack 2016 | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## McKenzie (Sep 1, 2015)

useport80 said:


> anyone with lower back pain find these LR packs help with pain?


Yep, I got one two weeks ago because I have lower back pain. The compression straps really help me out. Keeps the weight off of my back and on my hips. I'm really happy with how well it has worked for me.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I had a USWE and now have a Skyline. I'd say the USWE is a bit more stable (doesn't move at all, even on bigger jumps), but the Skyline is very notably cooler on my back. The problem with the USWE is it works by hugging the pack to you real tight, which traps in a lot of heat. In the end I was fine with trading a little bit of stability for being cooler


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been using a Skyline for a month or so now. I've been wanting a low rider pack for a while. I ordered a larger Wingnut pack a few years ago, but the process of actually getting the pack and dealing some fabrication problems I had with it was so painful I couldn't bring myself to try and order a smaller WN pack for day rides.

I saw the Skyline and was hoping it would be similar to the WN without the hassles of actually getting it and the QC issues I had with the WN.

*On the plus side:*

- the Skyline is well made
- holds enough water and gear to be dangerous
- it sits comfortably on my lower back/hips
- holds my arm/knee armour and helmet well for fire road grinds
- looks good
- bladder/bite valve quality is great
- side pockets are useful

*On the downside:*

- it's heavy/overbuilt for its size
- the weird shaped bladder is not going to be easy to replace unless CB has spares down the road when you need one
- the bladder is a bit of a PITA to load into the pack
- the pack isn't as stable as it could be...it could use some additional stabilizer straps from the pack to the waist belt
- waist belt comes loose each run and needs frequent adjustment [never had this issue on any other CB or other brand pack]
- sooner or later I'll lose the removable hose clip
- side pockets could be bigger [hard to get my P&S camera into the zippered pocket]

All in all it's a decent pack. I don't love it the way I had hoped, but it's the best option I've seen besides the WN packs.

If CB sticks with the concept I hope they make it wrap around the body a bit more and add some stabilizer straps.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

After having my Skyline for some time now, it's become my favorite lack by far.

I disliked riding with packs so much I rarely was using one for trips less than 2 hours. Usually I'd just go without water and pack and take my chances.

Since using the Skyline I find it fits and works so well I'm again using it on all my rides. Even the short ones.

Unlike Vic, I find dealing with the bladder very easy. Easier than many other packs I've owned.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My issue with loading the Skyline is that I carry a basic load on every ride [tools, pump, shock pump, windbreaker, InReach, and a couple energy bars]. You have to load the bladder from the rear on this pack as the bladder compartment is totally separate from the rest of the pack. So I end up disconnecting the hose and fishing it through the hose sleeve in the pack and then reconnecting it. With a bunch of stuff in the pack the bladder needs to be squeezed in. The odd shape needs to be tucked in a the top and the sides since the zippered "door" is smaller then the bladder.

On my other packs [Camelback & Gregory] I can just drop the bladder into a sleeve in the pack from the top and leave the hose connected. It takes less than half the time to load and since I don't have to disconnect the hose I don't end up with a couple squirts of liquid getting onto my pack or my car seats.

With my other packs I could also top up my bladder without taking it out of the pack which was nice.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Why do you remove the hose from your pack?

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Why do you remove the hose from your pack?


I live in a warm moist climate and put energy drinks in my bladder. If I don't remove the hose and flush it/dry it or store it in the freezer between rides I get mold growing in the tube which is not fun.

So typically I just pull the bladder and hose then throw it in the freezer between rides. When I want to use it again I add some water/mix and I've got icy cold goodness for my ride.


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## leathernuts (Jun 21, 2006)

vikb said:


> My issue with loading the Skyline is that I carry a basic load on every ride [tools, pump, shock pump, windbreaker, InReach, and a couple energy ........


Shock pump? Seriously asking so please don't think I'm being smart, but have you ever needed it? I could see if you have a new bike and dialing it in, but as your normal riding gear seems excessive? Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

leathernuts said:


> Shock pump? Seriously asking so please don't think I'm being smart, but have you ever needed it?


Yes it's been used a fair bit. I lead group rides regularly and it seems like I am always patching up people's bikes or people. I don't use it often on my own bike, but I have adjusted my suspension on rides...usually start of the season or when I am travelling.

I've only had to do emergency evacuations of people 3 or 4 times and only once where I needed the InReach, but I still carry it and a first aid kit.

As it stands I am one of the faster climbers/descenders on the rides I go on so stripping down my pack by taking out stuff like the shock pump doesn't seem particularly useful. Carrying it doesn't bother me and I don't need to be faster. It's nice to be able to fix a problem right away so that it's not a drag for several hours on the ride.

Given how little space there is in the Skyline - 10L including water it's not like I really have that much stuff with me.


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## leathernuts (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks Vic! Makes sense. I can definitely see the use in group rides. I'll have to check out the inReach, not familiar with it. 


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

leathernuts said:


> Thanks Vic! Makes sense. I can definitely see the use in group rides. I'll have to check out the inReach, not familiar with it.


Here is a InReach review:

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/delorme-inreach-se-review-880260.html


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## shoopow (Oct 12, 2015)

There is no difference in my experience, but I usually only get pains when I slack off on core exercises.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just updating my Skyline 10R review after a year. My comments from last July still agree with my current thoughts on this pack. I got a Wingnut 3.0 lumbar style pack and after a few months of use I like it better than the Skyline in almost everyway.

So I sold my Skyline to a buddy as I won't be going back to it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Just bought a black and orange Skyline LR10 today. I have previously used HAWGs, Mules and, most recently, a Volt (which is the predecessor to the Skyline).

Wow. The Skyline is vastly superior to my Volt, which I believe was the first low rider offering from CamelBak (the Volt only lasted a year or two before being discontinued). I bought my Volt in 2015.

The Skyline seems to address every single nit I had with the Volt, which was the best hydration pack I have used to date:


wider waist strap
lower riding pack
fleece pocket for phone/glasses
a better bladder (hopefully...I could never get the remaining 10% of water out of my Volt)
an included tool roll
a magnetic clip for the hose
armour straps at the bottom
two side pockets, one of which is non zipper (hopefully easier to use than the two zippered side pockets on my Volt, which required me to fully remove the entire pack in order to access them -- edit #1 -- see comments below...the side pockets are not big enough to hold my phone...dammit)
higher volume and easier drawing water (hopefully...sometimes my Volt was a bit of work to draw water from)
and on and on.

The fit and finish and level of detail on the Skyline is miles above that of the Volt. Comparing the two, the Volt looks like it was a hurried design, marketed as an "Enduro pack" (Mark Weir did a video ad for it) to try to take advantage of the Enduro craze that was sweeping the industry at the time.

The only apparent drawback I can see with the Skyline relative to the Volt is that I did like the double zippered pocket system on the Volt (albeit, which is much less sophisticated than the single, heavily organized pocket on the Skyline). Related to this, my Volt holds significantly more stuff than the Skyline (not counting the 3 L bladder in each, the Volt has 10 L of capacity, vs. 7 L in the Skyline). On a positive note, however, this will force me to carry less crap that I don't need when I bike.

I will update this post once I get sufficient mileage in with the Skyline. For now though, this looks like a supreme winner.

As an aside, the hassles vikb referred to above with the Skyline's bladder will not impact anyone who uses water only in the Skyline. With my Volt, disconnecting the hose at the bladder and storing the bladder only in my fridge, was a blessing. It took me 5 seconds to remove or replace the bladder, not ever having to deal with the hose (except to disconnect to reconnect it). I loved it, and will equally love the same design on the Skyline. I do agree with vikb about the side pocket size though - could be bigger... Just compared the side pocket sizes - the ones on the Volt are WAY bigger. I could easily get my 6S+ iPhone in the Volt side pockets, but there is no possible way on the Volt. In fact, my phone just barely fits in the fleece pocket, which will require me to take off my pack every time I want to take a pic. Dammit.

Edit #2 - I stumbled across the following thread by Finch Platte:

http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/questions-owners-camelbak-skyline-10-lr-1012897.html

I agree with FP. Those compression straps inside the "caves" on the waist band are super non-user friendly to loosen. Wow. They are the exact same design as on my Volt. Horrible design. I never used them. Maybe that is why I could never get the last bit of water out of my bladder...


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