# 6 cogs on a SS hub -- best solution?



## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

on a thread today, Lynx wrote:



> Curious how come you went 2x4 instead of 2x5 or 6, since I think most SS hubs will allow at least 5 cogs if not 6? The SRAM PG990 and XT both in 34-11 have 6 cogs attached to the spider and fit right on with no mods - this is how I'm running my RIP9 using an SS/Trials Hope hub.


...which relates to a question I've had - what are the options regarding a 6 cog setup on a single speed hub? I've heard that an XT cogset can be modified by grinding to fit; sure enough, I took the 6 cog portion (34-17) of my XT cogs, placed it on my Hadley single speed freehub, and saw that I'd need to grind off several mm (2-3 mm) to allow the lockring to get threaded on there. So does the stack height on various SS freehub brands vary enough that some people (e.g. Lynx) can put the unmodified cog carrier on there no problem? I thought that Jones modified his XT cogs to fit on chris kings...?

my overall question here is what are some good options for getting 6 cogs on a SS rear hub, and comments about brand x vs brand y hubs (or cogs) are welcomed. I'm only interested in an aluminum cog carrier approach -- not wanting to get separate cogs and stack 'em up.

thx. Search function is useless for terms like '1X6' or '6 cogs' etc.


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## YoungerNow (Nov 10, 2006)

I just set up my Karate Monkey 1x6 using a Hope SS hub. I didn't use the carrier from a cassette, or buy individual cogs. Instead I disassembled an SRAM 950 cassette, which doesn't have a carrier for the bigger cogs; One long thin allen bolt holds them all together. I took out the 34t, 26t, and 11t cogs, and replaced the 13t cog with a 13t first-position cog, which has a serrated surface to mate to a lockring. I also had to get a larger lockring to work with the 13t cog. No grinding was required.

I found that I couldn't use a 34t as the biggest cog. The derailleur cage moves away from the axle as it moves inward towards larger cogs, and at the 6th cog position, it hadn't moved far enough to clear a 34t cog. A 32t cog *might* fit, but the 30t is working well enough that I'll probably just stick with that.


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## cocheese (Jan 12, 2004)

Somebody here showed me a workaround for the shortcomings of the search function. Go to Google. Type in "1x6 site:forums.mtbr.com". Viola!


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

different hubs have different width freehub bodies...
I've got a profile 5/6 speed hub... designed to handle 5 or 6 speeds.
Some "single speed" freehubs are just as wide as mine, some aren't 
(for example, my woodman ss freehub might have enough room for 3 cogs, but there's no way more could fit)

I'd love to tell you that you should be able to fit the same amount of cogs, but truth is, the freehub body is as wide as it is because your hub's manufacturer decided that the freehub must have X amount of space so you can somehow get the perfect chainline...
Wouldn't you know it, if a manufacturer decides to build a rear hub that'll allow a perfect chainline for the crank's chainring no matter whether you choose to run the granny or the big ring... means the freehub body is near as dammit 5 or 6 cogs wide! 
Nice fringe benefit for tinkerers... but unfortunately largely unintentional. 
As such there's no way to know why that one hub's 30mm wide and allows for 6 cogs whereas the next is only 28 and requires grinding (examples, not actual measurements).

Might I suggest an 8 speed xt cogset? 17-30 teeth in a 5 cog spread, slightly thinner than 6 cogs out of a 9 speed.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Here is the site that help me......*

http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=Six_Speed_MTB


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## matt_outandabout (Mar 29, 2006)

Buy 'old stock' 7sp hub and cassette? I know our local shop here in UK has old Hope 7sp hubs in....


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

As you said, I can get either the SRAM PG990 or Shimano XT cassettes to mount on my HOPE Pro2 SS/Trials hub without any modifications, I just use a 12 or 13t lockring to make sure I have good covereage over the spider end. I did look at the XT cassette and because the cogs go on recessed _(I guess to save weight)_ and the mounting parts is easily accessible it can be machine down another 4-5mm to allow the addition of another cog, therby letting me run 7 gears -_ the SS freehub has a very large "lip" compared to a normal freehub or I think it could easily run the 7 cogs without any mods_. I will be doing the mod to the XT cassette in the very near future and will post up my results, I will try to take some pics today/tonight of my setup and of both the XT and PG990 casettes etc for you.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

thanks for all the useful info. and yeah, i momentarily forgot about the google search trick. d'oh.

LyNx, I was concerned about whether the derailleur would clear the 34T ring when it's shifted outboard like it would be in this setup, but you've had no issues w/ that? I assume you just maxed on the set screw on the derailleur mount?

thx for posting pics.

i don't mind building a new wheel w/ a hope SS hub if that enables a simple, clean solution here. But I was hoping to make use of my flow / hadley SS wheel I already have built up.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Here's what I did with my Hadley SS hub*

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4788277&page=2

The above link shows what I did with my Hadley SS hub. I love it. :thumbsup:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Frorider, clearance was a bit of an issue using the stock Shimano adjustment screws, but I changed to the longer SRAM ones and had no problems since.

Re chain dropping...........yes and no. Initially on setting up and riding the wheel here at home in Barbados I had no issues except from the intial setup phase of tweaking the adjustments. Once I got to CO though after a couple rides I started having some ghost shifting and dropped the chain a couple times :skep: when I foudn out why, I felt a bit silly and relieved I hadn;'t suffered anything more drastic because of it - hadn't obviously torque the bolts good enough when I assembled the bike in CO and they had come loose so the wheel was wobbling in the drops causing all those issues.

As for the setup, I set the shifting up so that when I hit my last/easiest/granny gear_ (using a Rapis Rise RD)_ it is the last shift on the shifter and it can't shift anymore - the extra shifts are towards the high end and as set up I only get one additional shift.

Pics - Here are the pics I promised, in them you can see the clearance of the cassette to the spokes and the huge amount of space the cassette could come in if the spider was machiend down. 
Also you can see that I too have the 3mm or so overhang off the end of the freehub, but it hasn't proved to be a problem - _if you're happy with 6 cogs you could just mchaine off that little bit so it's flush._
Included pics of both the PG990 and XT M760 cassettes so you can see how differently the spiders are constructed and the material that could be remove from an XT to allow 7 cogs easily on the SS hub.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

thanks, those pics are helpful. So the extra length on the Hope freehub really works out nicely here, at least for setups & terrain where a 17T is acceptable as a small cog.

my 6 speed application would be on a turner sultan 29er, ridden on some pretty epic terrain in the sierra mtns (i.e. lotsa long singletrack climbs, at altitude) so I really don't want to go smaller than 32 T for the big cog. The front dual rings would be 22T/36T, since that's my standard setup and shifts well.

Since I don't have a Hope hub, it sorta leads me toward the 'build a cogset' approach of buying a 11-34 and a 11-32 PC 970, and building a 13-15-17-21-26-32 cogset that should fit on the Hadley freehub. $55 is not much at all to pay for this experiment. Guess I'll need a 13T endcog though, since I won't be using the 11's.

for a top-end gear, 36 - 13 will be fine for me. the 22 - 32 combo on the long steep sandy climbs will be less than ideal on those 5+ hour rides, but I can probably live with it.

I'm not sure 36 - 17 as a top gear would work for me around here, but perhaps it would. if so, long-term I might build up a wheel on the Hope SS hub (which is a nice hub for the money).

thanks all.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Glad the pics help.

Just as a comparo of sorts, I run a tripple crank using 24/34/46 and before I went to the SS/Trials hub was going to drop the 46 big ring and run a 24/38 ring combo - _maybe going to a 24/38 with the 34-17 combo would work out for you and then you'd have the spider and not individual cogs which can eat at the freehub body._

I rode that 24-34 granny/granny combo all over CO - _Crosier, Miller Fork, Coyote Ridge, Crested Butte 401, Monarch Pass including Rainbow_ - and although at times it was a bit of work on long sustained climbs I found it worked out quite well, all in all.


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

good point. I'll think about that option. Also note that one of the nice thiings about Hadley Ti hubs is you get the freehub durablity of steel, but at lighter weight; I thnk the individual cogs won't eat up the freehub much. Also, isn't it possible for me to bolt all the SRAM cogs together once I've reassembled them? that would also reduce the biting.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

sorry... ti freehubs are just as suceptible to gouging as aluminium ones.
my profile hub was good n gouged, took a while with a file to clean it up. that's why i'm going the spider'd route.

if it's a brand new hub then you'll be fine for a while, but keep an eye on it either way!


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

byknuts said:


> different hubs have different width freehub bodies...
> I've got a profile 5/6 speed hub... designed to handle 5 or 6 speeds.
> Some "single speed" freehubs are just as wide as mine, some aren't
> (for example, my woodman ss freehub might have enough room for 3 cogs, but there's no way more could fit)
> ...


But then you'd have to gethold of an old 8spd shifter as well. Besides, the whole idea here is to cram gears into a smaller space. 9 Speed gets you more cogs per mm of freehub body.

I have an SRAM casette with an carrier for the 3 largest cogs, I believe it's a 970..


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I will actually be taking the PG990 by the machinest and asking if there's a way to re-pin the cogs to the spider if I wanted to do some "work" on it. That way I could also change up the cogs to better suit my fancy, but still have them pinned to a solid carrier. With some of the lower cassettes you get 3 or maybe 4 cogs pinned together. Try an Xt cassette, you might just be able to machine down the back 4-5mm and be able to get it on the Hadley freehub - _there's at least 5mm to play with back there._



frorider said:


> good point. I'll think about that option. Also note that one of the nice thiings about Hadley Ti hubs is you get the freehub durablity of steel, but at lighter weight; I thnk the individual cogs won't eat up the freehub much. Also, isn't it possible for me to bolt all the SRAM cogs together once I've reassembled them? that would also reduce the biting.


Yes the idea is to get as many gears crammed on as possible so i agree with you sentiment - _9spd spacing makes it possible to get the 6+ if you play a bit_.


tjaard said:


> But then you'd have to gethold of an old 8spd shifter as well. Besides, the whole idea here is to cram gears into a smaller space. 9 Speed gets you more cogs per mm of freehub body.
> 
> I have an SRAM casette with an carrier for the 3 largest cogs, I believe it's a 970..


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

LyNx - does your PG990 have 6 gears pinned to the spider?

Good to see you experimenting on this and moving the knowledge base along - I moved my Hope/Flow wheelset to my Monocog Flight and am now back to the regular old 9 cogs w/ a King/Flow wheelset on the Sultan.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Problems...*

I have a milled XT with a 34t low gear and can't get the rear derailure's top jockey wheel to clear the cog's teeth. No amount of adjusting seems to fix this.

Any ideas?


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## Vortechcoupe (Nov 7, 2006)

Miker J said:


> I have a milled XT with a 34t low gear and can't get the rear derailure's top jockey wheel to clear the cog's teeth. No amount of adjusting seems to fix this.
> 
> Any ideas?


chain too long? are the front chainrings the same as you had before or smaller? what derailleur?


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

Miker J said:


> No amount of adjusting seems to fix this.Any ideas?


I assume you tried the b-tension screw?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yup, check out the 3rd pic down and you can clearly se the pins - same as the XT.


GreenLightGo said:


> LyNx - does your PG990 have 6 gears pinned to the spider?


What derailleur are you using? I get a bit of rubbing if I run granny/granny, but nothing to noticeable to annoy me. Actually noticed this today and did a little mod to help improve this......... I have several old RDs sitting around and after checking several of them I noticed that an old SIS LX had a further spaced part on it than the XT, swapped the part from the LX to the XT and now can adjust the RD further back using the B adjustment screw. Sorry don't know the name for the part, but it's the part on the inside of the derailleur that attaches to the internal spring that the attachment bolt goes through and gives pre-load as such and determines just how far you can "pull" the RD back using the B screw.

I attached an image showing the part I swapped, the red dot is the part and the green is the distance I am talking about. On the Xt it was about 14mm and on the old SIS LX it was about 20mm, so significant gain.

Hope some of this helps. You could also try shortening the chain a bit and see if that helps. I can't on my setup as I still use a big ring and actually one of the great things about this setup is I can run big ring/granny without having a bad chainline :thumbsup:



Miker J said:


> I have a milled XT with a 34t low gear and can't get the rear derailure's top jockey wheel to clear the cog's teeth. No amount of adjusting seems to fix this.
> 
> Any ideas?


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

byknuts said:


> sorry... ti freehubs are just as suceptible to gouging as aluminium ones.
> my profile hub was good n gouged, took a while with a file to clean it up. that's why i'm going the spider'd route.
> 
> if it's a brand new hub then you'll be fine for a while, but keep an eye on it either way!


i currently have 6 or 7 hubs w/ aluminum freehub, and 4 hadley Ti hubs, and have had no gouging issues w/ any of the hadleys but defintely have had gouges with some of the alu hubs/ cog combos.

a local shop specializes in 29er bikes; the head mechanic told me that his 29er gear bike uses a 6 speed version of the sram 970 cogset on a hadley SS hub, and he's had very good results, no gouging. since that is the same setup i was planning on running, i'm going w/ that.

he also mentioned that there's no need for a serrated end cog to engage w/ the lockring. as he points out, most of us single speeders are using the lockring adjacent to a smooth spacer, with zero issues.

so he just selects the 6 cogs he needs from teh 970 SRAM, tightens the lockring, and he's done.


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## jaghouse (Mar 21, 2004)

I am running a 1x5 setup with 8 speed spacing on a Hadley SS rear hub. I have noticed some gouging getting started on the cassette shell. Maybe a steel shell would fair better?. So if my Hadley eventually gets destroyed I will go that route or ditch the SS for 9 speed hub. SS wheels are so stiff though, would be hard to give that up.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

Tjaard said:


> But then you'd have to gethold of an old 8spd shifter as well. Besides, the whole idea here is to cram gears into a smaller space. 9 Speed gets you more cogs per mm of freehub body.
> 
> I have an SRAM casette with an carrier for the 3 largest cogs, I believe it's a 970..


true, my fault for not being perfectly clear, the suggestion for the 8 speed cogset was actually more in reference to people not getting the jockey wheels over a 34 or 32 tooth cog. 
All the new cogsets (barring the "dh specific" or roadie sets) end with a cog which seems to be too large for the deraileur to handle.
SRAM's dh- specific doesn't use a spider.

And I've got an xtr 8 speed shifter to match my 8 speed xt cassette and old school dura ace derailleur so no problems here!  
Hoarding... it's your friend!

Oh! there's always token's 1 piece cogsets... would just have to bandsaw off whatever gears you don't want! 
I've got one, shifts ok, HELLA light, not sure what sizes they run though, might be raodie only.


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## mtsmith (Oct 10, 2007)

I am trying to run this 1x6 setup on a Hope SS rear hub and using a Sram X9 shifter and X0 deraileur. I cannot mechanically limit the deraileur from overshifting (by accident) past the largest cog and into the spokes, without reducing its travel down to the smaller cogs. I just dont want to mess up and accidentally shift it one too many times, and end up with the chain gouging at the spokes when it gets stuck between the cog and the spokes. Has anyone else run into this problem with Sram rear deraileurs?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Check out Otterini's post about his troubles http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4788277&page=2



mtsmith said:


> I am trying to run this 1x6 setup on a Hope SS rear hub and using a Sram X9 shifter and X0 deraileur. I cannot mechanically limit the deraileur from overshifting (by accident) past the largest cog and into the spokes, without reducing its travel down to the smaller cogs. I just dont want to mess up and accidentally shift it one too many times, and end up with the chain gouging at the spokes when it gets stuck between the cog and the spokes. Has anyone else run into this problem with Sram rear deraileurs?


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## I am Dirt (Jan 19, 2008)

> Curious how come you went 2x4 instead of 2x5 or 6, since I think most SS hubs will allow at least 5 cogs if not 6? The SRAM PG990 and XT both in 34-11 have 6 cogs attached to the spider and fit right on with no mods - this is how I'm running my RIP9 using an SS/Trials Hope hub.


I was the person to which this question was originally asked on a different thread.

My initial answer was that my intent was different from those that are posting here. I normally ride single speed, but I've been sick and I needed a little bit of gearing to to ease up on the gear inches a little. I also wanted a bail-out gear (the granny) for some of the steep, rocky trails. Thjat made it so that a 17-23 cluster with 20 and 32 tooth chainrings is perfect.

I went through and took a closer look last night, and found that for the Chris King single speed hubs, the upper 6 cogs on an XT or SRAM carrier won't fit without being machined. The king hub uses its own lockring instead of the ones from Shimano or SRAM.

With that in mind, the hubs from Hope and Hadley would be better choices for more than 4 cogs.

Pete


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## mtsmith (Oct 10, 2007)

Yea, I had read that, but it seems like he fixed that problem by going with a Shimano rear deraileur. Im using a brand new X0 that i bought for this setup...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well then, from all the threads I've seen on this I'd have to say you're S.O.L. :skep: if you really want to make this work you might have to sell the SRAm stuff and go Shimano -_ simple as that_ .



mtsmith said:


> Yea, I had read that, but it seems like he fixed that problem by going with a Shimano rear deraileur. Im using a brand new X0 that i bought for this setup...


Thanks for the info on the CK freehub, should definitely help people out who are wanting to try this or already have the hub and were curious.



I am Dirt said:


> ........................I went through and took a closer look last night, and found that for the Chris King single speed hubs, the upper 6 cogs on an XT or SRAM carrier won't fit without being machined. The king hub uses its own lockring instead of the ones from Shimano or SRAM.
> 
> With that in mind, the hubs from Hope and Hadley would be better choices for more than 4 cogs.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

Just dropping by to let you know that I just built a Hope Pro II Singlespeed hub with the largest 6 cogs from a 11-34T XT cassette. The cassette goes right on, no problems. I had to use a 12T lockring from a M900/950 cassette though.

There were interference issues with the XTR shadow derailleur, though. Can't be used, because the derailleur body comes into contact with the 3 largest cogs. Essentially the cogs grow too big too quickly for the low profile design of the shadow.










I changed to an older M952 RD, which worked well. I needed to remove the plastic limit screw plate to allow the low limit screw to go in further to prevent overshifting into the spokes.

There is the tiniest bit of rubbing of the chain on the right seatstay of my Durance on the 17T cog, and only when the chain is being shifted. I might mill the back of the cassette spider to allow more clearance.


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## jaghouse (Mar 21, 2004)

joeadnan said:


> Just dropping by to let you know that I just built a Hope Pro II Singlespeed hub with the largest 6 cogs from a 11-34T XT cassette. The cassette goes right on, no problems. I had to use a 12T lockring from a M900/950 cassette though.
> 
> There were interference issues with the XTR shadow derailleur, though. Can't be used, because the derailleur body comes into contact with the 3 largest cogs. Essentially the cogs grow too big too quickly for the low profile design of the shadow.
> 
> ...


what are u running for a front ring??


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

Those that want to use SRAM can! My Dos Niner has been successfully setup to run SS Hope Pro IIs on 355s with the 6 gears riveted gears on the PG990. I'm using a long cage XO rr and XO grip shift front in a 1x6 config. You have to use a longer adj. screw and setup the grip shift at 9 working to 4.

pictures here

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=463303


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## mvi (Jan 15, 2004)

Is shimming (rings) behind the derrailleur bolt no option for clearance problems?


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

jaghouse said:


> what are u running for a front ring??


Standard XTR 3-ring crankset: 44/32/22.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

mvi said:


> Is shimming (rings) behind the derrailleur bolt no option for clearance problems?


Possibly, but it would defeat the purpose of the low-profile design. It was easier to pull an RD off one of my other bikes (actually, my wife's bike, heh heh)


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## Gunnar Westholm (Nov 2, 2005)

*6-cogs and Shadow*



joeadnan said:


> >>>>>>>>
> There were interference issues with the XTR shadow derailleur, though. Can't be used, because the derailleur body comes into contact with the 3 largest cogs. Essentially the cogs grow too big too quickly for the low profile design of the shadow.
> 
> 
> ...


I used a file to take of a bit material from the arm on my XT Shadow. Now the dérailleur works fine with 6-cogs and 34-T


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

I ran a 1x6 for a while and loved it. 









The best combo is to go with a PG990 11-32 not the 11-34. The bottom 3 cogs are loose on the 11-32 while the 11-34 only has 2 loose cogs. With the 11-32 you can choose your bottom two gears rather than just one gear make a more complete range. My gear combo ranged from 14-32, but you could do 11-32 if you wanted.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Wrong. On the 11-34 only 6 cogs are pinned to the carrier, 3 are loose _(9spd right)_. So maybe you meant the last 4 cogs are lose on the 11-32 and 5 are pinned.



1-bar said:


> I ran a 1x6 for a while and loved it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## winbert (Sep 22, 2005)

*DT Swiss 240s*

Bummer, tried this with a PG990 cassette on my DT Swiss 240s singlespeed hub and the carrier flange is too tall for the lockring to engage :sad:...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Not hard to solve at all, either A - take a file/grinder to the spider of the 990 so you can get the lockring on or B - take it to a machine shop and have them machine down the back. A is cheaper, although if you know somoene with a chase and face tool it's been mentioned that this will work to take the spider down.



winbert said:


> Bummer, tried this with a PG990 cassette on my DT Swiss 240s singlespeed hub and the carrier flange is too tall for the lockring to engage :sad:...


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

*how did you machine down the spider?*

For the people who did this, how did you machine down the inside of the spider on the (XT) cassette?

How did you clamp the cassette without damaging the cogs?


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

The XT cassette, when used with a Hope Pro II singlespeed hub, requires no modification. Just use the largest 6 cogs and you're good to go. I use a larger 12T lockring (from a M900 XTR cassette) as a 11T lockring will be too small.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

As Joe said, if you're happy using 6 cogs, you need to do nothing at all except put the cassette on, if however you want more, you need to machine the spider down about 5mm. As to how to do it, I took mine to machien shop and had it proffessionally done, but someone said they managed to use a facing tool -_ not something most have lying around._



joeadnan said:


> The XT cassette, when used with a Hope Pro II singlespeed hub, requires no modification. Just use the largest 6 cogs and you're good to go. I use a larger 12T lockring (from a M900 XTR cassette) as a 11T lockring will be too small.
> 
> 
> Tjaard said:
> ...


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

LyNx said:


> As Joe said, if you're happy using 6 cogs, you need to do nothing at all except put the cassette on, if however you want more, you need to machine the spider down about 5mm. As to how to do it, I took mine to machien shop and had it proffessionally done, but someone said they managed to use a facing tool -_ not something most have lying around._


I have been running the 6 spd on my Hope for a while now. I would like to go to 7 for three reasons:
1: I run 22-34 with 180 mm cranks up front, this means my tallest gearing becomes uncomfortable at about 14mph.
2: the 22 ring causes the chain to skip in evererything but the34t rear
3: I have cut a groove in the derailleur as deep as I dare, but the low litit screw still acts as a high limit screw a little bit, I can ride in the 17t, but there is a bit of rub.

I just cant figure out how to do it:

When I went to a machine shop they said they couldn't clamp it. I am sending it to a different machinist, and was wondering about the way other people did it. 
I do work at a shop, so I do have a facing tool , but how do you hold the cassette when turning the facer?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

OK first up, not to sound better or holier, but if doing 14mph on 58 gear inches is uncomfrtable you really need to work on your spin and fitness - _I did the calc and on 58 GI 14mph=81 RPM which is not even slightly fast._

On to your problems.......
#1 - Dealt with, you need to get fitter  but a taller gear would also help, thus the 17t and/or maybe move to a 36t ring.

#2 - You have issues other than needing an additional cog on there, sounds like you've got something setup way out of whack, most likely your chainline or worn casssette/stretched chain. Also check your B-limit screw to make sure it's adjusted out to stop the top pulley from rubbing on the cogs - _I could run my 24 and 38 on all the cogs before I machined the cassette down and still now that it's machined._

#3 - Once again, weird, only thing I have done in that area is use a longer limit screw, which leads me to believe you're using a SRAM RD which have been known to be finicky to setup.

As to how to clamp it, I've no clue, I took mine to a proper machine shop that knows what they're doing, I advise the same of you. As to using the facing tool, can't remember how the guy said he did it.

Hope some of that helps, also search for this topic in al forums and you will find loads of other threads covering it with more info.


Tjaard said:


> I have been running the 6 spd on my Hope for a while now. I would like to go to 7 for three reasons:
> 1: I run 22-34 with 180 mm cranks up front, this means my tallest gearing becomes uncomfortable at about 14mph.
> 2: the 22 ring causes the chain to skip in evererything but the34t rear
> 3: I have cut a groove in the derailleur as deep as I dare, but the low litit screw still acts as a high limit screw a little bit, I can ride in the 17t, but there is a bit of rub.
> ...


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

Lynx,

My question was how to machine the cassette down. Still haven't had an answer to that.
Since I can't resist talking though let's go OT and talk about the other stuff.

1 81 rpm could sound right. I am neither fit nor fast spinner. However, 81 rpm on my road bike is just fine, even 90 rpm is comfortable for me. It's the fact of spinning 'into thin air' that is the problem, made worse by the longer cranks. So yes spinning 80 rpm up a hill is fine it's on the flat pavement that it feels weird.

2 You are right, the frame or hanger might be a tiny bit bent, this is always more obvious at extreme chain angles. I don't think it is wear on the cassette and the chain is still well within range. The B limit screw would be an issue on bigger cogs not smaller ones.
I do think chainline is at least a contributing factor, which is why I wanted to machine down the back of the spider to bring the cassette better in line with the chainrings.

3 Yes I am using SRAM, otherwise I wouldn't have had to cut out the space for the limit screw.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I can give the shop a call tomorrow and ask them how they did it/what mahicne they used to cut and clamp it etc. If I could remember the thread where the guy said how he used the facing tool I'd point you to it - think it was in the Niner forum or anbother one of these 6 cogs on an SS hub threads.


Tjaard said:


> Lynx,
> 
> *My question was how to machine the cassette down. Still haven't had an answer to that.*
> Since I can't resist talking though let's go OT and talk about the other stuff.
> ...


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

Tjaard said:


> I have been running the 6 spd on my Hope for a while now. I would like to go to 7 for three reasons:
> 1: I run 22-34 with 180 mm cranks up front, this means my tallest gearing becomes uncomfortable at about 14mph.
> 2: the 22 ring causes the chain to skip in evererything but the34t rear
> 3: I have cut a groove in the derailleur as deep as I dare, but the low litit screw still acts as a high limit screw a little bit, I can ride in the 17t, but there is a bit of rub.
> ...


I just used a couple of finger clamps to press down on the cassette. You're only cutting aluminium, so there aren't massive forces involved. If your machine shop can't figure that out, I'd suggest going elsewhere!


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

How much did you take of? Are you using the 15t or the 13 or 11t?
Did you take it all of the back or did you cut down the 'outside' as well to use a cog with attached spacer?


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

Tjaard said:


> How much did you take of? Are you using the 15t or the 13 or 11t?
> Did you take it all of the back or did you cut down the 'outside' as well to use a cog with attached spacer?


It was a couple of mm off the back on a M770 XT 11-34 cassette. The outer portion of the body was also machined flush with the 17t cog so I could then use the 13t, which as you say has a built in spacer. This gives me a 13-34. 7 speed, pics of the set up are on the other 6speed setup thread.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

so what is the point of cramming a cassette onto an SS hub?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

If you need to ask, don't worry 


alexrex20 said:



> so what is the point of cramming a cassette onto an SS hub?


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

LyNx said:


> If you need to ask, don't worry


if you have to run more than gear, don't worry


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

alexrex20 said:


> so what is the point of cramming a cassette onto an SS hub?


-only way to have both gears and a dishless wheel on a 135mm frame (besides a geared hub)

-a small cassette on an SS hub will have better chainline in either of the extremes than a full 1x9

-in the same way that that "limiting" yourself on an SS can be more fun and can make you a faster rider, "limiting" yourself to only a couple gear ratios can do the same. And if you want such a setup, why not make it look clean" on an SS hub instead of having a couple inches of spacers behind a cassette hanging out at the end of the hub. That would just look silly

edit: also, the Hope SS hub is one of the more popular for this and it has twice the engagement of a the regular Hope hub


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

alexrex20 said:


> so what is the point of cramming a cassette onto an SS hub?


Http://www.joeadnan.blogspot.com/2010/01/maverick-durance-one-year-on.html


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I've been poking around these threads (re 1x6 etc), and I just can't seem to diffinitivly find the answer to my question... Which is do SRAM PG990 32 tooth cassettes have 5 cogs pinned to the carrier instead of the 6 pinned cogs on the 34 tooth cassette?

I'm asking because the 32 tooth cassette has cogs that better match what I would like to run. So I'm trying to find out if I'll be running a 1x5 (ok) or a 1x6 (better but not necessary)...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Obviously your poking skills need some serious work or you'd have found the answer already  The PG990 32-11 has 5 cogs pinned to the spider.



Wish I Were Riding said:


> I've been poking around these threads (re 1x6 etc), and I just can't seem to diffinitivly find the answer to my question... Which is do SRAM PG990 32 tooth cassettes have 5 cogs pinned to the carrier instead of the 6 pinned cogs on the 34 tooth cassette?
> 
> I'm asking because the 32 tooth cassette has cogs that better match what I would like to run. So I'm trying to find out if I'll be running a 1x5 (ok) or a 1x6 (better but not necessary)...


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## girona (Oct 12, 2005)

Has anyone tried running 5 or 6 cogs on a WTB Single Duty hub?










I have a wheel built with this hub but unlike the Hope hub, it's got an alloy freehub and it's got a fairly wide lockring threaded on the freehub, taking up a lot of cog space.

Maybe it's only able to do 4 cogs... The new xtr cassettes would do, but at a hefty price.










any other possible and cheaper solutions?


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

I would like to know if anyone's done something like this with the WTB hub as well


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*partial cassettes can be had new*

XT, XTR, Ultegra and DA partials:
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=91815

and cheap too if you can make it work for your needs. :thumbsup:


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## girona (Oct 12, 2005)

*research*

OK, I'm in the process of figuring out for myself...

I took apart a SRAM 9 speed cassette to figure out how many cogs it would fit on a WTB Singleduty hub (will not use like this because of the possibility of the alloy freehub getting chewed up by the individual cogs):










Hub and lockring:









The splines are not like the Shimano ones. Here they seem to be the same profile all around, but the cogs will only fit a certain way. Just like in a Shimano freehub, but on the WTB there is no obvious pattern for it, in fact I almost gave up thinking that the diameter of the WTB freehub was slightly larger than that of a Shimano/SRAM cassette cog:



















It ended up fitting 4 cogs:



















Here is what it looks like with 5 cogs, no room for the lockring:










Possible solutions:

Use the 3 largest cogs from a 9sp 11-28 Saint cassette, the 21-24-28 cogs are on a spider, plus a wide base singlespeed cog (18 tooth cog).

Track down an UG or IG cassette and use the smaller thread-on cogs for an additional cog (using friction shifters).

???


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

If you had room for one more cog,you could put one of those 36 tooth cogs on,so it would be 7 speeds.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

We need 6spd specific derailers, or a retrofit part that increased the vertical sweep of the derailer. A logner hanger would also help, but that's not a real solution unless you don't want a cog smaller than 14t for instance, on the 11t position. 

11-13-16-20-25-32 would be my ideal 6-speed cassette. Add a 39 or 40t for a 7spd.
I had that one (crappy throw together) on a 26" rear wheeled commuter, 42 or 44t front ring. In terms of range, it aced it. A gear for everything. The bike was always (bar shifts themselves) fast, like a singlespeeder in each speed range.
29", I'd want a 32 or 34t front ring with that for allround goodness.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I just got done with mine.

* Hope Pro ll SS hub
* XTR 12-34 Cassette with the bottom 3 cogs dropped
* X9 trigger
* X0 short cage rear der.
* 2mm spacer in between hanger and der.
* slightly longer L screw in der. I got mine from ACE Hardware in the "Stainless Department"

This setup needs nothing modified, just creative thinking. All parts are stock... Works awesome



















Picture of the "spacer", aka, oil drain plug washer


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Nice setup. 

That XTR cassete really is the bomb. Unfortunately a tad too expensive for me.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

DiDaDunlop said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> That XTR cassete really is the bomb. Unfortunately a tad too expensive for me.


Go Ebay:thumbsup: Paid $60 for mine and it was like new!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I don't know, I looked at spacing out the RD like you did, but it just didn't seem like there was enough tread into the actual hanger for me, so I opted to not do it. Will be interesting to hear how it performs and lasts or not. Wondering if a replacement drop out could be offered with the spacer incorporated and deeper treads.



DFYFZX said:


> I just got done with mine.
> 
> * Hope Pro ll SS hub
> * XTR 12-34 Cassette with the bottom 3 cogs dropped
> ...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

It's a hollow bolt on the X0 so if it really worried you you could always run a lightweight screw through it and put a thin nut on the backside for extra bracing. There's still enough thread in there that I'm not too worried about it. Wouldn't run it if I was 1:1 shifting won't work without it spaced out on the hanger or the back of the cassette milled off. Gotta do one or the other to gain that 2mm...


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Today I recieved my hope SS hub. And I tried to install this setup:

Hope SS hub
XTR cassette 12-14-16-18-21-24
X-9 derailer. 

The frame is a steel el mariachi

I have 6 speed shimano XT setup (also Hope) on another bike and that works like a charm. 

But i cannot get this setup to work. There is the known problem with the L limit screw. But I can remove that screw and us the 1gear in my shifter to make sure the derailer cannot shift in mij wheel. 

But the problem is that the shifting is not accurate. I keep getting ghost shifts on the lower half or upper half of the cluster (depending on my adjustments). 

I have the strange feeling that my hanger is out of aligment. Anybody know how to check that of does anybody have an idea what the problem could be? My 9 speed wheel also had some ghost shifts on the upper half of the cluster (like in the 8 of 9th gear).


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

You *NEED* to space the derailleur out with a 2mm washer or it will NOT work. Look at my last picture. Between the der and the hanger is a silver washer. Pick one up, install it and it should work just fine


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Yeah I tried a washer. I dunno of its 2MM. 

What is the reasoning for that 2MM?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Because if you just use a standard cassette and don't macine down the freehub body the cassette will now sit roughly 3 cogs further outboard than on a normal 8/9 spd hub. With the cassette like this when the derailleur is on cog 1/biggest cog, it is actually situated to be on the 3rd largest cog and in most cases the chain/pully will tend to rub the cogs. If you machine down the cassette carrier then this isn't really necessary.



DiDaDunlop said:


> Yeah I tried a washer. I dunno of its 2MM.
> 
> What is the reasoning for that 2MM?


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

My cassette sits only 1 cog further outboard. I removed the top carrier (28-32) and the smallest cog (11).

Also my B limit screw has ample adjustment range to clear all the cogs.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well then, your idea of a bent hanger could be quite possible _(if it's a new frame I'd be a bit miffed, but **it can happen)_. Might not be the hanger, could be the RD, could have knocked it sometime and didn't realise or didn't think you'd hit it that hard. Another thing could be the spacing on the cassette, if it's brand new and everything else checks out, take a look there.

As I've stated numerous times before, no issues what so ever running a machined XT M760 cassette with 7 cogs. Only weird niggle I have is I have to shift to 8 if I want to use the 7th cog or I get a bit of skipping/roughness, but not enough for me to waste time on it.



DiDaDunlop said:


> My cassette sits only 1 cog further outboard. I removed the top carrier (28-32) and the smallest cog (11).
> 
> Also my B limit screw has ample adjustment range to clear all the cogs.


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## fraseot (May 30, 2007)

DFYFZX said:


> You *NEED* to space the derailleur out with a 2mm washer or it will NOT work. Look at my last picture. Between the der and the hanger is a silver washer. Pick one up, install it and it should work just fine


I have this setup working flawlessly without a washer. I have the following setup:
Superfly hardtail
DT240 SS Hub
5 cogs from XT 11-32 Spider (spider milled down a few millimeters)
15t Miche cog used as the "6th" cog
SRAM XO shifters 
SRAM XO RD (whatever size cage comes on the superfly) with custom limit (see picture)


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

fraseot said:


> I have this setup working flawlessly without a washer. I have the following setup:
> Superfly hardtail
> DT240 SS Hub
> 5 cogs from XT 11-32 Spider (spider milled down a few millimeters)
> ...


I'm using the 3 carriers(6 cogs) from an XTR cassette and a Hope SS hub so our equipment is completely different. With my setup, AND Lynx's for that matter, our der. hangers rub the big cog simply due to the spacing of our selected equipment. Ideally I'd like to go without a washer but not at the expense of machining down an XTR cassette to change the offset of the cassette inboard two millimeters:nono:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Ingenious Dude, well done on that mod :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



fraseot said:


> I have this setup working flawlessly without a washer. I have the following setup:..............SRAM XO RD (whatever size cage comes on the superfly) with custom limit (see picture)
> 
> View attachment 574796


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I wonder how this would work with something short cage like a DuraAce or Ultegra r/d? (I don't know what hacks I'd need to make, if any)

I am planning to do this on my Hope SS hub for a 1x6 Sir9. Just trying to figure out which derailleur to pull the trigger on. I am not looking to put huge cogs on the back either, probably the biggest will be a 22, give or take.


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## Evil Chocula (Jan 31, 2007)

boomn said:


> -only way to have both gears and a dishless wheel on a 135mm frame (besides a geared hub)
> 
> -a small cassette on an SS hub will have better chainline in either of the extremes than a full 1x9
> 
> ...


+If you own a SS hub, want gears but don't want to buy a new hub and rebuild the wheel.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

I nomitate this for thread of the friggin' decade!!!
:thumbsup:


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

nspace said:


> I wonder how this would work with something short cage like a DuraAce or Ultegra r/d? (I don't know what hacks I'd need to make, if any)
> 
> I am planning to do this on my Hope SS hub for a 1x6 Sir9. Just trying to figure out which derailleur to pull the trigger on. I am not looking to put huge cogs on the back either, probably the biggest will be a 22, give or take.


FWIW, on my Zaskar Hans Rey (26" street trials build) I'm running a Tiagra derailer on a Hope SS/Trials hub with 6 cogs (11-23) of a 8-speed Shimano LX HG70 cassette. It works fine, I have not had to do any derailer or freehub mods. The lockring is Chris King Ti 11T.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

track cog threads onto wtb ss hub perfectly, acts as your lockring. 
surly makes them in 3/32 as small as 13 teeth, so the potential for a large range 5 speed is there. 
problem is (at least on my surly track cog) the cog's width is ALL back-spaced, so you'd need to flip it backwards, run some loc-tite to keep it in place and a spacer between the flat edge and the next cog. which is hard because the threading on the freehub runs so far along that you basically need the bottom 3 cogs to be widebase or pinned.
I think if you can find a small (maybe 14 or 15 teeth) track cog, with teeth that're centered instead of all the width being on one side, it could work. 
Or if you grind the surly cog down to the right width.
Just sayin'...


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Hmm yesterday I straightened my hanger (it was bent) shifting goes a lot better now. I still get ghostshifts between the 3rd en 4th gear. It;s like the movement of the derailer is different. 

Anybody got some more tips? My LBS says that this usually happens between SRAM drivetrain and Shimano cassette. But I call bull excretement on that because I see more people doing this.


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## fraseot (May 30, 2007)

In my experience, ghost shifts are related to dirty cables, bent hanger/derailleur/cog teeth/chain, worn/loose derailleur pulleys, b-limit adjustment, or a combination of several of these. I've also seen ghost shifts with cable housings cut too short.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Has anyone gotten a 7-speed to work? I did a search and saw that people have tried and but no one has described a working setup.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

I don't think a 7 would work on my Hope SS hub. If I machined off the backside of the cassette that goes against the hub it might get me close but there's just not a lot of room left in there for an extra cog. I think I would be VERY close to hitting the spokes on the high side and doubt I could get the lockring on on the dropout side. A different kind of hub might work. I never say never with all the options out there


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*This*



fraseot said:


> I've also seen ghost shifts with cable housings cut too short.


and screwy barrel knob adjustments. I recently replaced my cable set thinking that it was worn out or dirty, but discovered later that the cable was actually jamming up in the derailler just past the barrel adjuster, and just before the cable retention screw. Not sure why it was sticky there, but I worked it open a bit more and then everything worked well.

Long story short, isolate each section of cable housing &/or cable "passages" for lack of a better word. You should be able to work the cable back and forth with very light pressure. If you figure out where it sticks, you'll need only to figure out why to fix it.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

*Read the thread!!!*

Yup, this would never work  guess some people haven't paid good attention or read this and other threads on this subject :madman: I have been running a 7spd setup now for about 1.5+ years and it works fine, the only issue I have which I'm not willing to take the time to sort is I need to shift to the 8th index to run the 7th cog (smallest 15t) without noise.

I even fit 8 cogs on there, but the chain just rubbed the drop outs and I didn't feel like bothering with it to get it to work, since a 15t cog is small enough for me.



> Has anyone gotten a 7-speed to work? I did a search and saw that people have tried and but no one has described a working setup.
> 
> 
> DFYFZX said:
> ...


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Holy crap! Those cogs are wedged in there! Good work I wouldn't mind having one more small cog. I may tinker around and see if I can pull it off over the off season...


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*miche*



fraseot said:


> I have this setup working flawlessly without a washer. I have the following setup:
> ...DT240 SS Hub
> 5 cogs from XT 11-32 Spider (spider milled down a few millimeters)
> ...15t Miche cog used as the "6th" cog


Hey, question on your set up. I see you're using the DT240SS hub. Yours has the alloy freehub body, yes? If so, is the Miche 15t doing any damage to it? I'm running nearly an identical set up, but that alloy free hub has left me a bit gun shy about adding any single cogs over the 5 I have on a carrier (Sram990 milled a bit). I think I even bought one of those 15t cogs a while back.

Thanks.


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

alexkraemer said:


> Has anyone gotten a 7-speed to work? I did a search and saw that people have tried and but no one has described a working setup.


Loads of people have, myself included on the other set up thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=573783


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Does anybody have pictures of the new low gear limit screw setup on an SRAM derailer? I noticed that this limit screw also acts as a high gear limit screw. I saw that one poster attached a new hook on the derailer body. Also I read that a user dremeld a part of the derailer. 

I wonder what solutions people use. I need that limit screw because otherwise I will shift between the spokes and the cassette. 

SRAM setup is surely more finnicky than the shimano setup. That worked flawless first time around.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Does anybody in here do machinist work? I want to have my Hope Pro2 SS hub body machined down and also have my new XT 770 11-34 cassette carrier machined down. I want to go for 7 gears, POSSIBLY 8, but I don't of know anyone locally and a Google search didn't help much. Anyone willing to do some work for me and accept payment through PayPal??? PM me if you're interested or know someone good who would do it for me I'm in the KC, MO area if that makes a difference.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Do you have a local shop with good tools and mechs who know how to use them? If you do then you can use a facing tool to do the job, just need to have 1/2 a brain and take your time. I personally have never done it, but there's a few who have and if I had the tool I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try. ON the M770 you'll also need to cut down the pins on the carrier that I assume Shimano put there to help catch dropped chains.



DFYFZX said:


> Does anybody in here do machinist work? I want to have my Hope Pro2 SS hub body machined down and also have my new XT 770 11-34 cassette carrier machined down. I want to go for 7 gears, POSSIBLY 8, but I don't of know anyone locally and a Google search didn't help much. Anyone willing to do some work for me and accept payment through PayPal??? PM me if you're interested or know someone good who would do it for me I'm in the KC, MO area if that makes a difference.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Has anyone done something similar with a Chris King SS hub?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

LyNx said:


> Do you have a local shop with good tools and mechs who know how to use them? If you do then you can use a facing tool to do the job, just need to have 1/2 a brain and take your time. I personally have never done it, but there's a few who have and if I had the tool I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try. ON the M770 you'll also need to cut down the pins on the carrier that I assume Shimano put there to help catch dropped chains.


I found a guy at work that is a closet machinist that said he'll give it a shot:thumbsup: I'll post results when I get it done...


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

okay so i just gave this a shot and ran into an issue.

hub- chris king universal iso disc single speed hub

the cassette body is bmx style where all the splines are the same size so my cogs from a cassette will not fit as one key is smaller then the rest.

bummer


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Someone in USA has been selling modified XT cassettes. He machines the spiders so that they fit Chris King SS freehub body.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Someone in USA has been selling modified XT cassettes. He machines the spiders so that they fit Chris King SS freehub body.


Select the cassette you want and pay thru PayPal. Easy:thumbsup:

http://waltworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/xt-cassette-mods.html


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Sjeez. changed to a 105 derailer and a very old LX shifter. Worked immediately. Not flawless. But I thinks thats just the new cables etc. 

Nice one SRAM. Maybe It works when I use an SRAM cassette.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

has anyone tried this?
using single speed cogs spaced out correctly and a 8 spd chain? thoughts on it?


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

People done it and it works fine as long as you have a steel freehub. It will tear the crap out of an aluminum freehub!


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Does shifting not suffer on a stack of SS cogs?


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I was wondering the same thing. I know the Surly cogs have a wide base as to not harm freehubs, and that base happens to be the correct width for 9spd spacing. They say it can be used for a multi-gear setup.

I was curious if the absence of any ramps would affect the shifting performance.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

*10 speed cogs*

Anyone using cogs from a 10speed cassette?
maybe you can easily fit 7 cogs?


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

savo said:


> Anyone using cogs from a 10speed cassette?
> maybe you can easily fit 7 cogs?


Probably more. 
Lynx showed that 8 9s cogs _almost_ fit. So I imagine that 8 10s cogs would fit well.

Lynx - any thoughts?


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## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

alexkraemer said:


> Probably more.
> Lynx showed that 8 9s cogs _almost_ fit. So I imagine that 8 10s cogs would fit well.
> 
> Lynx - any thoughts?


finally, a reason for me to buy a 10 spd shifter and cogset. a 1X8 FTW.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

nspace said:


> I was wondering the same thing. I know the Surly cogs have a wide base as to not harm freehubs, and that base happens to be the correct width for 9spd spacing. They say it can be used for a multi-gear setup.
> 
> I was curious if the absence of any ramps would affect the shifting performance.


how long you been riding?   (just kidding!)
probably shift a lot like pre-hyperglide days of non-cut-out/ramped cogs! 

I mentioned awhile back to someone who was running a 4 speed wide ratio cogset with ramped cogs, and told him to try and keep the ramped cogs for this exact reason.
but he was also running a seriously wide spread for 4 cogs (think he had 14-30 in 4 gears or somesuch?)

honestly, shimano were running cogsets, 14-28 5 speed, with no damn shift aids at all. 
yeah you'll lose some smoothness so reconcile that against the stronger/lighter/stiffer rear wheel (which is the great reason for the short freehub bodies)
I think you have to remember the speed and precision of rapidfire shifters compared to the thumbies that were prevalent in the days of unramped cogs.

really, there's no precedent for these combinations but that which we set.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

i think im just going to modify the cassette body. seems to be the easiest/cheapest route.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, as I have shown, with machining off 5mm off an older M760 XT cassette I fitted 8 cogs onto the freehub _(the last cog did not get onto the splines if I remember right, just caught maybe a tad, was a while ago) _so technically fitting 8 - 10spd cogs onto it using the same procedure should work easily, I just didn't want to spend any more time messing with it as a 34-15 range was good enough for me.



alexkraemer said:


> savo said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone using cogs from a 10speed cassette?
> ...


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

What cassettes are available to use without mods AND aren't attached to an alloy carrier. Just trying to weigh out my options. I don't really have a use for the larger cogs like 34T, probably the biggest I need is maybe a 24T for my setup. So road cassettes are a strong possibility.

I know there is the SRAM PC970, and the Miche 9-spd road casette. Are there any other worthwhile options to consider?


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

LyNx said:


> Well, as I have shown, with machining off 5mm off an older M760 XT cassette I fitted 8 cogs onto the freehub _(the last cog did not get onto the splines if I remember right, just caught maybe a tad, was a while ago) _so technically fitting 8 - 10spd cogs onto it using the same procedure should work easily, I just didn't want to spend any more time messing with it as a 34-15 range was good enough for me.


Lynx - thanks for the info, you've been an invaluable resource for this topic!

Frorider - I looked at the 10s cassettes out there, and it doesn't look like there is much that can be machined on the 10s cassettes, so 1x8 may not be feasible until the 10s cassettes get better options.

Does anyone have a 10s mountain cassette that they've seen in person to confirm this?

XT (CS-M771) - http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/CS/EV-CS-M771-10-3017_v1_m56577569830704675.pdf
SLX (CS-HG81) - http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/CS/EV-CS-HG81-10-3018_v1_m56577569830704674.pdf
PG-1050 - http://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/sram-pg-1050-cassette
PG-1070 - http://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/sram-pg-1070-cassette


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

LyNx said:


> Well, as I have shown, with machining off 5mm off an older M760 XT cassette I fitted 8 cogs onto the freehub _(the last cog did not get onto the splines if I remember right, just caught maybe a tad, was a while ago) _so technically fitting 8 - 10spd cogs onto it using the same procedure should work easily, I just didn't want to spend any more time messing with it as a 34-15 range was good enough for me.


Well I was wondering more about fitting 7 - 10spd cogs whithout machining nor modifying anything. Do you think it's possible? say a 17t to 36t cogs from an 11-36 CS-M771.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

*Works just fine*

There is no issue, works absolutely fine!

For whatever reason I felt especially kind this evening _(plus the bike needed a little cleaning)_, so pulled the rear wheel when I was done cleaning and installed 7 - 10spd cogs from a 25-12 road cassette and they fit fine - _would need about a 1-2mm shim to install between the lockring and last cog._

The real issue I see you running into is the B-limit screw adjustment and getting the pulley off the 36t cog, because as is it's quite PITA_ (you have to use longer screws or other ways)_ to get the pulley far enough back with 5mm machined off putting the 34/granny cog about inline with the 3rd cog position on a normal 9 spd freehub. Without machining the spider, you end up with your granny/36 cog where the 4th/23-25t cog would be.



savo said:


> Well I was wondering more about fitting 7 - 10spd cogs whithout machining nor modifying anything. Do you think it's possible? say a 17t to 36t cogs from an 11-36 CS-M771.


Here the "proof" pics.


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## veintinueve (Sep 21, 2005)

*question*

hey guys iam looking to do this set up but somebody knows if is posible to change the leng of the axle from 135 mm to 145 mm this is for a snow bike project so maybe hope hub chris king or another option thanks in advance


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

veintinueve said:


> hey guys iam looking to do this set up but somebody knows if is posible to change the leng of the axle from 135 mm to 145 mm this is for a snow bike project so maybe hope hub chris king or another option thanks in advance


Your axle length (specifically O.L.D.) is determined by your frame and can't be changed unless you modify your frame. The length of the freehub is also not readily changed, so I'm not sure I understand what you plan on modifying.

I ordered a 10s cassette today (Shimano XT) so I'll post pics when I get it (next week sometime) to see what sort of machining possibilities exist.


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

Here is mij solution:



















Works like a charm. Also the thumbie works great. I bought it to use it on my H-Bar.But that is on another bike for the moment.

The cassette is an XTR 32-12 with the top 2 cogs removed and the 12 tooth cog removed. Enough spread to ride here in the not so hilly Netherlands.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

will a sram 5 spd grip shifter work correctly with a custom 5 spd cassette made out of a p spd cassette?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

You let us know, OK 


veloreality said:


> will a sram 5 spd grip shifter work correctly with a custom 5 spd cassette made out of a p spd cassette?


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

LyNx said:


> You let us know, OK


alllriiiight :skep:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

As in, you work in a bike shop, get the parts, give it a try and let us know.


veloreality said:


> alllriiiight :skep:


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Ordered a 10s XT cassette from REI - should arrive by the end of the week. I'll post pics when I get the cassette.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Largest 3 cogs from the 10speed 11-36 cassette (28-32-36). It looks like there will be at least several millimeters that can be machined off the back. My hope hub is on the way, I'll post more pics when the hub gets in.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

WOW, that is a lot of excess behind there  Just remember 2 thigns though...1 - you have to figure out exactly how much to take off without having the cog pins hit the spokes and 2 - the 36t cog is going to generate a lot of torque on there, so be careful taking off too much, it could maybe even mark a SS freehub. Best way to decide how much to take off is to actually mount the cassette onto the built wheel and then eyeball and try to measure how much you can go before spoke/pin interferance, heck since it's 10spd you might not even need to take any off and still be able to fit maybe 8 on there (doubt it, but worth a try before machining it). Let us know when you're done and what happened.

Like that they double pinned the 36t cog, should help keep it straight. Allso like the fact that XTR 970 tech has made it down to XT already, using these multi pinned cassettes it's posible to have both a Mtn 7 spd setup and then drop the first cluster and have a road setup -_ with the XTR it's easier since they're only 2 cogs pinned to the carriers._



alexkraemer said:


> Largest 3 cogs from the 10speed 11-36 cassette (28-32-36). It looks like there will be at least several millimeters that can be machined off the back. My hope hub is on the way, I'll post more pics when the hub gets in.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

LyNx said:


> the 36t cog is going to generate a lot of torque on there, so be careful taking off too much, it could maybe even mark a SS freehub.


Since most SS freehubs are made of harder metals than aluminum, it's the cassette spider that's going to get marked, imho.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

True, silly statement since it's on an alu carrier, more accurately the integrity could be compromised :skep: No clue as I haven't ever done this, usually the spider holds 5 or 6 cogs, so torque is spread over a wider flange.


J. Random Psycho said:


> Since most SS freehubs are made of harder metals than aluminum, it's the cassette spider that's going to get marked, imho.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

LyNx said:


> WOW, that is a lot of excess behind there  Just remember 2 thigns though...1 - you have to figure out exactly how much to take off without having the cog pins hit the spokes and 2 - the 36t cog is going to generate a lot of torque on there, so be careful taking off too much, it could maybe even mark a SS freehub. Best way to decide how much to take off is to actually mount the cassette onto the built wheel and then eyeball and try to measure how much you can go before spoke/pin interferance, heck since it's 10spd you might not even need to take any off and still be able to fit maybe 8 on there (doubt it, but worth a try before machining it). Let us know when you're done and what happened.
> 
> Like that they double pinned the 36t cog, should help keep it straight. Allso like the fact that XTR 970 tech has made it down to XT already, using these multi pinned cassettes it's posible to have both a Mtn 7 spd setup and then drop the first cluster and have a road setup -_ with the XTR it's easier since they're only 2 cogs pinned to the carriers._


Lynx - thanks for the info. I will certainly post more pics when the hub gets here. Yeah, I'm annoyed that the 10speed stuff doesn't have a longer carrier with more cogs to address the torque issue, either from Shimano or Sram.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

LyNx said:


> As in, you work in a bike shop, get the parts, give it a try and let us know.


i decided not to run the gripshift but since i had the stuff i tried it anyways. i set it up with a 13.15.17.20.23 and a basic sram gripshift. it shifted flawlessly.

but here is my final set up 15.17.20.23. i still have to finish tinkering with the rear derailure though.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

veloreality said:


> i decided not to run the gripshift but since i had the stuff i tried it anyways. i set it up with a 13.15.17.20.23 and a basic sram gripshift. it shifted flawlessly.


If it was flawless, why not stick with it?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yup, would have to ask, how come you didn't keep the 5 cogs if it was working fine?



Wish I Were Riding said:


> If it was flawless, why not stick with it?
> 
> 
> veloreality said:
> ...


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

Has any one here gone from running 4-6 cogs on a SS hub to running a hub with a normal sized 9-speed freehub body? And if so, have you noticed a major loss of stiffness/strength/durability in your rear wheel? I was running a SS hope Pro II with a 6 speed cassette the entire time I've had a 29er, and I'm just now switching to a normal 9 speed freehub, so I dont have much to compare it to.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

*Got the hub in today*

The two 3-cog carriers plus the 11T cog fit without any problems. The spacing may not be perfect between the carriers and the 11T, but everything bolted together without any issues.

So, the gears that fit with no mods are: 36-32-28-24-21-19-11

In order to get a different final cog on, I will have to go one of 3 routes:
1. Machine off enough of the 36T side of the carrier (larger carrier, inner side) so that I can put the 17T or 15T cog in place.
2.Machine off enough of the 19T side of the carrier (smaller carrier, outer side) in order to fit a 17T or 15T cog in place
3. Machine off both carriers and shoot for 8 speed?

Lynx - which route would you recommend going?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

OK, I'm not realy understanding the problem here :???: You fitted the 11t cog on there fine, so why can't you just put the 15t cog in it's place? Unless they've drastrically changed how they do cassettes, every Shimano cassette I've had the 11t/12t normally comes with a shoulder on it for proper spacing, so that's why your shifting would be off, you have it most likely spaced twice as far out as needed. From your pic it looks like the splines of the hub are strill accesable for the 15t or 17t cog to go on there.

As to what would I do, well, me personally I would give it a try that way and see how you like it _(with the 17 or 15t cogs, not the 11)_ and not shell out cash for no reason. This is how I did it and came to the conclusion I needed at least a 15t cog so had the cassette machined behind the largest cog. It let me add the 15t _(on the 34-11 cogs are pinned down to 17t) _and it took the cassette back bringing the alignment closer to what a 9spd is and making it not so hard to get the pulleys off the cogs because of lack of B-limit screw adjustment.

Whatever you do, unless you do use a 11 or 12t cog, you'll need a 13t or bigger if you can somehow find one lockring.



alexkraemer said:


> The two 3-cog carriers plus the 11T cog fit without any problems. The spacing may not be perfect between the carriers and the 11T, but everything bolted together without any issues.
> 
> So, the gears that fit with no mods are: 36-32-28-24-21-19-11
> 
> ...


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Lynx,

The 17T and 15T are loose cogs that don't include an extended spine (they're pictured in the lower right corner of the 2nd picture). The 11T works because it has a deeper spline that tucks into the 13T cog. I'll play around with it some more this weekend and post more pics when I settle on a direction.

-Alex


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

LyNx said:


> Yup, would have to ask, how come you didn't keep the 5 cogs if it was working fine?


with the cassette i have handy will only allow my to use 4 cogs on the chris king hub i am now using. i was able to adjust my trigger shifter as listed below to work very well with the 4 cogs.


Slurry said:


> Has any one here gone from running 4-6 cogs on a SS hub to running a hub with a normal sized 9-speed freehub body? And if so, have you noticed a major loss of stiffness/strength/durability in your rear wheel? I was running a SS hope Pro II with a 6 speed cassette the entire time I've had a 29er, and I'm just now switching to a normal 9 speed freehub, so I dont have much to compare it to.


i ran a 5 spd on a geared cassette. i experimented with the cogs all the way against the spokes, in the middle of the body and and the end of the body and couldnt notice any bit of flex or strength difference.

here is my current set up:
Xt shadow long cage 
I removed both limit screws and the spacer between the screws and body
I installed a longer limit screw in place of the L screw. i tightened it down very tight and then hammered it with a punch to bend it toward the cassette so it will stop on the derailure body to avoid shifting too far. 
Then all i had to do was shift into the smallest gears on the shifter and tension the cable tight. 
It now shifts perfectly through all 4 gears with no extra click on the shifter while going down or up.



long limit screw bent toward the body while in the largest cog


the limit screw is floating while in the smallest cog becuase i tensioned the cable to not allow the derailure to shift any lower


flawless shifting
feel free to ask questions.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

*no mod 5 speed*

I just a new wheelset for my 650b bike and started playing around to see what I wanted to run on the back and found this to work with no modifications at all. Its a DT Swiss single speed hub and an M970 cassette. Only mod needed is a longer limit screw for the derailleur. Plus as an added bonus the DT Swiss cassette body has the wider slot to accept the one wide spline of a standard cassette so no filing needed. So while this may not be the cheapest option its certainly does seem to be the easiest. This setup gives me 15, 17, 20, 23, 26 cogs out back.


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

shanem said:


> I just a new wheelset for my 650b bike and started playing around to see what I wanted to run on the back and found this to work with no modifications at all. Its a DT Swiss single speed hub and an M970 cassette. Only mod needed is a longer limit screw for the derailleur. Plus as an added bonus the DT Swiss cassette body has the wider slot to accept the one wide spline of a standard cassette so no filing needed. So while this may not be the cheapest option its certainly does seem to be the easiest. This setup gives me 15, 17, 20, 23, 26 cogs out back.


Looks good. Very clean looking.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

shanem said:


> I just a new wheelset for my 650b bike and started playing around to see what I wanted to run on the back and found this to work with no modifications at all. Its a DT Swiss single speed hub and an M970 cassette. Only mod needed is a longer limit screw for the derailleur. Plus as an added bonus the DT Swiss cassette body has the wider slot to accept the one wide spline of a standard cassette so no filing needed. So while this may not be the cheapest option its certainly does seem to be the easiest. This setup gives me 15, 17, 20, 23, 26 cogs out back.


What if you encounter a steep hill???


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DFYFZX said:


> What if you encounter a steep hill???


frickin' stand up an mash them pedals!!!


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

Has anyone had any luck running any kind of multiple gears on a shimano DX hub? I can install a max of three regular cassette cogs with spacers (sans carrier) but this leaves me with no room for the lock ring. Not sure if the cogs were on some kind of carrier I might be able to carry the larger cogs behind the base of the splines. The DX has the same set-up as the WTB with the locking ring that threads on top of the splines and not into the hub body which really impacts available space. I would really like some gearing flexibility (even a little) but it almost looks like two cogs is the most I could get out of the DX hub unfortunately. Anyway if anyone has any feedback of experience with the DX chime in. Thanks


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

meltingfeather said:


> frickin' stand up an mash them pedals!!!


You said it!


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

N10S said:


> Has anyone had any luck running any kind of multiple gears on a shimano DX hub?


What's the DX freehub look like? I had to extensively machine an XT carrier to get 5 gears working on a very short freehub (which needed some machining as well):




















More info here

I am not sure how this would hold up to an adult mashing on the pedals though.


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## njbiker66 (Oct 23, 2005)

Here is mine. I messed around on the mill/ lathe of my buddies for a little while. It dose not take long to do once you get the hang of it.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

TigWorld said:


> What's the DX freehub look like? I had to extensively machine an XT carrier to get 5 gears working on a very short freehub (which needed some machining as well):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will get a picture of the hub posted a little later, but its very similar in spline length to what you have. Thats some great information on your project and I appreciate the input as that helps clarify what can be done with limited spline surface and creative machining. Thanks for sharing the details!


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

shanem said:


> I just a new wheelset for my 650b bike and started playing around to see what I wanted to run on the back and found this to work with no modifications at all. Its a DT Swiss single speed hub and an M970 cassette. Only mod needed is a longer limit screw for the derailleur. Plus as an added bonus the DT Swiss cassette body has the wider slot to accept the one wide spline of a standard cassette so no filing needed. So while this may not be the cheapest option its certainly does seem to be the easiest. This setup gives me 15, 17, 20, 23, 26 cogs out back.


What derailleur and shifter setup are you using for that? It looks great.


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

N10S said:


> Has anyone had any luck running any kind of multiple gears on a shimano DX hub? I can install a max of three regular cassette cogs with spacers (sans carrier) but this leaves me with no room for the lock ring. Not sure if the cogs were on some kind of carrier I might be able to carry the larger cogs behind the base of the splines. The DX has the same set-up as the WTB with the locking ring that threads on top of the splines and not into the hub body which really impacts available space. I would really like some gearing flexibility (even a little) but it almost looks like two cogs is the most I could get out of the DX hub unfortunately. Anyway if anyone has any feedback of experience with the DX chime in. Thanks


Shimano DX hubs are spaced for BMX bikes - 110mm - IIRC. You making a geared BMX bike? Dirt Jumper?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

N10S said:


> I will get a picture of the hub posted a little later, but its very similar in spline length to what you have. Thats some great information on your project and I appreciate the input as that helps clarify what can be done with limited spline surface and creative machining. Thanks for sharing the details!


My pleasure. I did also investigate modifying a PG990 which has 6 cogs on the carrier instead of the 5 cogs of the XT, but it would have been too wide.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

Slurry said:


> Shimano DX hubs are spaced for BMX bikes - 110mm - IIRC. You making a geared BMX bike? Dirt Jumper?


 No this Nuke Proof hub is actually 135mm and currently on a Bontrager Privateer MTB, but Nuke Proof used a shimano DX splined hub body when they built the hub.


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

I don't have close up pics in front of me but I was successful running a 1x6 setup for cross using the smallest 6 gears on a PG-980 cassette (11-23). Using a Dura-Ace RD and older XTR shifter. I just removed the black piece that houses the high/low limit screws which allowed me to screw it in further w/o a longer bolt. I did use a spacer behind the cassette to get a snug fit.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

floxy said:


> I just removed the black piece that houses the high/low limit screws which allowed me to screw it in further w/o a longer bolt.


How do the screws stay in place without locking action from that plastic piece -- did you threadlock them?


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

I need to get some plumbers tape or something on there. They are a little loose but have stayed so far.


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## confused (Oct 27, 2009)

Im trying to do a 6 speed cassette on a new Lenz PBJ. I removed the 15 and the 20t rings, machined off 2mm off the back of the large carrier, and running a 2010 Saint med cage deraill. I printed this forum out and gave it to the LBS that is doing the work and after messing with it for a few days they concluded that the saint derailleur wont work because it hits the big ring. They say they researched other derailleurs and found that an older model XT should work. Problem is I really want my Saint deraill to work, anybody have any ideas?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Did they try removing the cassette range adjustment spacer from Saint derailer?


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

shanem said:


> I just a new wheelset for my 650b bike and started playing around to see what I wanted to run on the back and found this to work with no modifications at all. Its a DT Swiss single speed hub and an M970 cassette.


Looks great, and with a b-wheel out back, that 26t will be nice indeed. I'm running this hub with a milled PG990 because I like the 5 cog carrier. Looks like the largest 4 cogs on yours share two carriers, so no issues there. I'd be concerned a bit about that fifth cog (15t) and damage to the free hub, but I always err to the cautious side with expensive hubs.

If you stick with this set up, it'd be great help to me (and probably others) if you'd pull it back apart for inspection after a few hundred miles, and report back.

And I'll say it again -- will someone make a decent narrow / SS hub compatible cassette already? :thumbsup:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Shimano and SRAm already do, they just provide a few more cogs than you'll need  Seriously! Problem isn't with the cassettes, you can take your pick of options, if you want 6 cogs, get a 34-11, if you want 5 get the 32-11. 
The problem lies in the derailleur hangers currently on the market for bikes, they do not allow you to move the derailluer and hence the pulleys far enough back to not contact the largest cog, if someone was to produce a hanger that dropped the RD 5mm that would probably take care of the probblem. Also they'd need to make the lip bigger (should do this anyways, cause current lips on hangers are shite) and maybe move the mounting hole back a couple MMs.



Entrenador said:


> ......................And I'll say it again -- _*will someone make a decent narrow / SS hub compatible cassette already?*_ :thumbsup:


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

sanjuanswan said:


> What derailleur and shifter setup are you using for that? It looks great.


Well on this bike on plan on running XTR M970 shifters and short cage rear derailleur. Up front will be SRAM XO 39/26 cranks and probably the SLX double front derailleur.

The setup on my Soulcraft is similar but w/ White Industries cranks and rings(38/28). I found the SLX double front derailleur to work the best because it has a shorter cage allowing you to run further down the seat tube than a triple front. Basically you can get it closer to the smaller "big" ring and not have the cage hit your chainstays.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

Entrenador said:


> Looks great, and with a b-wheel out back, that 26t will be nice indeed. I'm running this hub with a milled PG990 because I like the 5 cog carrier. Looks like the largest 4 cogs on yours share two carriers, so no issues there. I'd be concerned a bit about that fifth cog (15t) and damage to the free hub, but I always err to the cautious side with expensive hubs.
> 
> If you stick with this set up, it'd be great help to me (and probably others) if you'd pull it back apart for inspection after a few hundred miles, and report back.
> 
> And I'll say it again -- will someone make a decent narrow / SS hub compatible cassette already? :thumbsup:


Well i set it up this way just to see what I could do with no mods. I'd love to keep the 15-26 as it appeals to me more than a 17-34. I'd have to take the cassette down to the machine shop to have work done on the third carrier to run the 17-34. I didn't think about that 5th cog tearing up my cassette body. that'd be a costly lesson. Can you even buy a single speed cassette body from DT Swiss? If I decide to run it as is I'll definitely check on it after some miles and post a follow up.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

shanem said:


> Can you even buy a single speed cassette body from DT Swiss?


At least it's listed in their spare parts catalog -- I'd contact the dealer.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

Do you know what the options are for 9spd road cassettes with 6 gears mounted on the carrier? Ultimately I'd like to go no bigger than 28 in the back.


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## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

Floxy what rear hub do you have on the Mary? I have a Ally ss and I do have a pg-980 in the tool box, the Ally has a pivot hub. thanks.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*hit or miss*



shanem said:


> Do you know what the options are for 9spd road cassettes with 6 gears mounted on the carrier? Ultimately I'd like to go no bigger than 28 in the back.


I'm using 18-32 (5 cogs) on the red pg990 carrier, and I'm running a 31/44 front ring combo, and there are some real upsides to this: The chainline is great in any gear, and the 31f/32r is a pretty usable combo -- occasionally I stand to climb, but not too often; and of course, I can keep using my affordable LX m582 cranks this way. This is the best I could come up with for use with the alloy freehub. Had I not scored a great deal on this hub, I think I'd have gone with one of the steel freehub options -- Hadley or Hope most likely. I say this because I have a few 11xx32 PG970 cassettes here, and without concern for damage to the freehub, you can make pretty much whatever cassette combo you like from it.

As for your interest in road cassettes: Everything I came up with had 2 or 3 cogs on a carrier, and the rest were individual cogs. There might be a way to use two different thin carriers (like yours) from different cassettes, like a 28/25/23 from a DA cassette, plus a 20/17 from an XTR (just made this up for example's sake). Last I checked, Cambriabike.com had partial Shimano cassettes for sale pretty cheap.

For now, you could skip that final smallest cog and just throw the appropriate spacer on there instead. Of course you'd lose some range, but you'd not have to worry about the damage either. Maybe do this until you find a better options?

Good luck.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

Entrenador said:


> I'm using 18-32 (5 cogs) on the red pg990 carrier, and I'm running a 31/44 front ring combo, and there are some real upsides to this: The chainline is great in any gear, and the 31f/32r is a pretty usable combo -- occasionally I stand to climb, but not too often; and of course, I can keep using my affordable LX m582 cranks this way. This is the best I could come up with for use with the alloy freehub. Had I not scored a great deal on this hub, I think I'd have gone with one of the steel freehub options -- Hadley or Hope most likely. I say this because I have a few 11xx32 PG970 cassettes here, and without concern for damage to the freehub, you can make pretty much whatever cassette combo you like from it.
> 
> As for your interest in road cassettes: Everything I came up with had 2 or 3 cogs on a carrier, and the rest were individual cogs. There might be a way to use two different thin carriers (like yours) from different cassettes, like a 28/25/23 from a DA cassette, plus a 20/17 from an XTR (just made this up for example's sake). Last I checked, Cambriabike.com had partial Shimano cassettes for sale pretty cheap.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input and research Entrendaor. The cassette parts from Cambria look like they may be able to help out but may get me no further than I am right now. I might be able to figure something out though. I have plenty of time as the riding season here is pretty much over. 
I know what I should do is just buy an 11-34 XT cassette and use the 17-34 gears all on one carrier. It would be the "safest" option for my hub and give me just a slightly easy climbing gear on this bike. My issue with cassettes is always the largest cog. The industry just keeps making them bigger. I long for the days when you could buy an XTR cassette in 12-28. I ride in the Northeast so we have some climbing to deal with but nothing I need a 22-34 or 24-36 to clean. I consider myself to be no more than an average rider and there's rarely a time when i have to drop down onto my small ring on triple front setup. On the same note I rarely use the bottom two cogs on a cassette and have never shifted into the big ring up front. So what appeals to me the most about these 2x5 or 2x6 setups isn't the better chainline, or dishless rear wheel, is that I know when i go for a ride I'm going to use every gear on my bike. My Soulcraft is a fully rigid steel bike w/ 26" wheels and a 2x6 setup and its the bike I enjoy riding the most and probably am fastest on. I shift more, use all my gears, and I think that results in more efficient and faster times.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Might I then suggest buying an XTR 34-11/12, comes with 2 cogs pinned to a carry, 3 sets, first 6 cogs, so you could just ditch the 34/30 cogs and use the 26-11 cogs  4 cogs pinned to carriers and then 3 loose.


shanem said:


> ...................... So what appeals to me the most about these 2x5 or 2x6 setups isn't the better chainline, or dishless rear wheel, is that I know when i go for a ride I'm going to use every gear on my bike. My Soulcraft is a fully rigid steel bike w/ 26" wheels and a 2x6 setup and its the bike I enjoy riding the most and probably am fastest on. I shift more, use all my gears, and I think that results in more efficient and faster times.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

LyNx said:


> Might I then suggest buying an XTR 34-11/12, comes with 2 cogs pinned to a carry, 3 sets, first 6 cogs, so you could just ditch the 34/30 cogs and use the 26-11 cogs  4 cogs pinned to carriers and then 3 loose.


That's the cassette I have right now. In my perfect world on a 9spd cassette I want to lose the bottom three cogs and the top 2. All the while have all the cogs pinned to one or more carriers. I almost have this setup now but Have one loose cog. It will work fine I just want to risk destroying the aluminum freehub shell w/ a single cog. Especially the DT Swiss ss hub as the cogs on carriers have more play than a regular hub with a full sized freehub body


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*Other option*

Sounds like you don't need more than one ring up front. What about running the 5 or 6 carrier-mounted cogs (XT or pg990), but with a larger single cog up front -- a 36t or 38t perhaps? This might get you in the range you want, with a high option of ~2:1, and you could be there without a front shifter or derailer. Of course you'd be running more teeth and more links than you might prefer, but then again the lifespan of the drive train will increase, and you'll save ~ 1lb by ditching the front shift mechanisms.

You'd want to check chainstay clearance for the larger front cog, or just run it in the outboard position, but with just five cogs in the rear, this wouldn't create any issues -- I should know, as I run my big ring up front and shift well into the larger cog range on my 3x9 bike all of the time; works great.


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

Entrenador said:


> Sounds like you don't need more than one ring up front. What about running the 5 or 6 carrier-mounted cogs (XT or pg990), but with a larger single cog up front -- a 36t or 38t perhaps? This might get you in the range you want, with a high option of ~2:1, and you could be there without a front shifter or derailer. Of course you'd be running more teeth and more links than you might prefer, but then again the lifespan of the drive train will increase, and you'll save ~ 1lb by ditching the front shift mechanisms.
> 
> You'd want to check chainstay clearance for the larger front cog, or just run it in the outboard position, but with just five cogs in the rear, this wouldn't create any issues -- I should know, as I run my big ring up front and shift well into the larger cog range on my 3x9 bike all of the time; works great.


Yeah I've thought about a single ring up front. I could certainly get away with it. I've been going over this and thinking about what I want out of it and think I'm just going to take the XTR cassette over to the machine shop and have them do the work so I can mount the three carriers and six speeds to this hub. I'm happy with the 17-34 on my other bike so it should serve me well on this bike. My gearing will be slightly different up front 38/28 vs. 39/26. I might want the slightly easier granny gear on this bike with the larger wheels. Who knows? I guess I won't until I try it. I do know that I'd like to be happy with something that I have now and not have to buy anything else. but..... Now I'm wondering if my short cage rear derailleur will handle the 39-34 gear?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

So for the 6 cogs to fit onto your hub it has to be machined? Seems that the Hope hub is the only one that'll fit 6 without any work.



shanem said:


> Yeah I've thought about a single ring up front. I could certainly get away with it. I've been going over this and thinking about what I want out of it and think I'm just going to take the XTR cassette over to the machine shop and have them do the work so I can mount the three carriers and six speeds to this hub. I'm happy with the 17-34 on my other bike so it should serve me well on this bike. My gearing will be slightly different up front 38/28 vs. 39/26. I might want the slightly easier granny gear on this bike with the larger wheels. Who knows? I guess I won't until I try it. I do know that I'd like to be happy with something that I have now and not have to buy anything else. but..... Now I'm wondering if my short cage rear derailleur will handle the 39-34 gear?


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

LyNx said:


> So for the 6 cogs to fit onto your hub it has to be machined? Seems that the Hope hub is the only one that'll fit 6 without any work.


I don't have my 17-34 XT cassette here but that may fit w/o maching. The XTR cassette definitely does need machining. Only on the first (smallest) carrier though. There's not much to take off the back of the largest two gears. How wide is the Hope cassette body? The DT is right around 1"


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

LyNx said:


> So for the 6 cogs to fit onto your hub it has to be machined? Seems that the Hope hub is the only one that'll fit 6 without any work.


I can confirm that the DT Swiss SS hub will fit only 5 carrier mounted cogs without machine work. Actually, I had ~5mm machined off the back of the PG990 32-18 carrier, and while there is a bit of extra room, it's not enough to add sixth free cog. Hope and Hadley both sound like better options for the multi-speed SS hub project due to the steel free hub, and because theirs are a bit wider (longer?).


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well I actually pulled off my SS Pro2 wheel last night to see how the XTR would fit and with the old, shoter threaded 12t lockring it was a no go, but with the 11t lockring it came with which has longer threads it would work - decided not to "waste" a perfectly new XTR cassette though.

As to measurements, I did actually put the calipers on it with lockring tightened down and got 24mm, but the lockring doesn't have to tighten all the way down, the carrier can overhang the shell a bit once your lockring has enough threads to catch and enough to hold it well. With this hub if I machined off the very little ridge at the back of the XTR it would sit flush with the end of the freehub.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Update on my Shimano 10speed adventures:
I got the large carrier machined last night (took 3mm off the back, there is about 1mm of clearance between the spokes and the nearest point on the cassette.

Using an SLX cassette I can get 7 cogs to engage the splines (all but the 15T) and an 8th that is connected via the pins, so (15/17/19/21/24) - (28-32-36) overall. The 15t cog shouldn't have any clearance issues, but I'm leary of running a cog that doesn't directly connect to the carrier splines.

With the XT cassette, I can get 8 cogs to fit as well, but I have to change the gearing to 
13 - 17 - (19/21/24) - (28-32-36) in order to get the 13T cog to engage the splines.

The LBS recommended going with the SLX route, as their concern was that the jump from 17 to 13 was too big and would make for poor shifting. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Note: the 15T cog is flat and you use a spacer between it and the 17T, whereas the 13T cog has the built in spacer and thus connects to the splines.


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

My setup goes 13t - 17t. The 4t jump isn't ideal, but it provides the best gear range for my 7-cog arrangement. Try it and see how it suits you would be my advice.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Seriously :skep: At what point is that a shift we need to be uber fast? When you're in that cog you're generally cruising. I can't foresee any issues other than it not being super fast. If you've got it, try it, that's the only way you'll know for sure. Personally, I find no need for anything so small cog wise running a tripple, now running a double could be and then I'd prob opt for the 13t anyways.



alexkraemer said:


> .......................The LBS recommended going with the SLX route, as their concern was that the jump from 17 to 13 was too big and would make for poor shifting. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
> Note: the 15T cog is flat and you use a spacer between it and the 17T, whereas the 13T cog has the built in spacer and thus connects to the splines.


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## agentorangemen (Aug 5, 2005)

alexkraemer said:


> Update on my Shimano 10speed adventures:
> I got the large carrier machined last night (took 3mm off the back, there is about 1mm of clearance between the spokes and the nearest point on the cassette.
> 
> Using an SLX cassette I can get 7 cogs to engage the splines (all but the 15T) and an 8th that is connected via the pins, so (15/17/19/21/24) - (28-32-36) overall. The 15t cog shouldn't have any clearance issues, but I'm leary of running a cog that doesn't directly connect to the carrier splines.
> ...


Is the RD going to have enough arc swing to clear the 36t at that point on the cassette? I think that may be the first failure mode rather than a poor shift from 13 to 17.

In other news, an 8 speed Dura Ace cassette with 4 cogs on a carrier (28t max) does not fit a Chris King SS freehub without machining the width of the carrier.

Walt's $120 machined XT cassettes seem to be the best deal for lack of hassle getting more gears on a CK SS hub.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

LyNx said:


> Seriously :skep: At what point is that a shift we need to be uber fast? When you're in that cog you're generally cruising. I can't foresee any issues other than it not being super fast. If you've got it, try it, that's the only way you'll know for sure. Personally, I find no need for anything so small cog wise running a tripple, now running a double could be and then I'd prob opt for the 13t anyways.


@Lynx - thanks for the info. That was my gut reaction as well. The shifting at that point is irrevelant, and I'll be running a 30T 1x drivetrain, so I'd rather have the 13T than the 15T. The LBS guys were also concerned that the 13-17t matchup would cause chain rubbing issues, but I'll install a chain on there and see if that's a legit concern.
@Nyquist - thanks for the info. I'll definitely give it a whirl and see if it's an issue.
@agentorangemen - by omitting 2 cogs, I'm running a 7.9mm width deficit. I've removed 3mm from machining and will likely use a 2-3mm washer/spacer, which reduces the deficit to 1.9-2.9mm, which the 2011 sram x7 RD should be able to handle.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

I had one additional thought that would be the best of both SLX/XT worlds - there is a 15T 10speed cog with a built-in spacer (part Y-1ZD 1500D from an ultegra CS-6600 cassette) that would be deep enough to engage the splines but would be 15T. If the LBS can order it, I'll give that route a whirl and see how things pan out.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

15T cog on the way, SS chainring arrives tomorrow. I'll have it setup by the end of the week and will post pics.
Final verdict for anyone planning on doing the modification with Shimano 10s stuff:
-remove 3mm off the back of the large cassette carrier. You could probably remove more with a 26" wheel, or a deep dish 29" wheel, but I didn't see the need to remove any more material
-Go XT route if you want to have 8 cogs engage on the spline, go SLX if you only need 7.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Meant to reply to this very imformative post - did not know they made a 15t like this. This is the sort of stuff this thread needs, only problem is with the 11-34 cassettes you'd then also need to machine off the lip to the front of the cassette as well.

Pics of the new setup when complete and let us know how it works.


alexkraemer said:


> I had one additional thought that would be the best of both SLX/XT worlds - there is a 15T 10speed cog with a built-in spacer (part Y-1ZD 1500D from an ultegra CS-6600 cassette) that would be deep enough to engage the splines but would be 15T. If the LBS can order it, I'll give that route a whirl and see how things pan out.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Just picked up the bike from the shop - haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Everything looks good, lots of clearance from the dropouts, the only possible issue is there is some rubbing on the 17T cog when the chain is on the 13T cog. The 15T hasn't come in yet, but it should fix that if it becomes a problem. I added a washer between the hanger and derailleur to space things out and there seems to be plenty of clearance. I'll post a ride report tomorrow.


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## knef (Jan 26, 2007)

8 speed with lots of clearance, looking good! How much room is there between derailler and spokes in the largest cog?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

That seems about perfect or at least will be when tyou get the 15t :thumbsup: How many gears do you really need on an MTB anyway?  With the spacer, you are confident enough with how much tread got into the actual hanger on the SRAM RD? I looked at that option with Shimano and kinda felt it was not enough, don't know about SRAM.



alexkraemer said:


> Just picked up the bike from the shop - haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Everything looks good, lots of clearance from the dropouts, the only possible issue is there is some rubbing on the 17T cog when the chain is on the 13T cog. The 15T hasn't come in yet, but it should fix that if it becomes a problem. I added a washer between the hanger and derailleur to space things out and there seems to be plenty of clearance. I'll post a ride report tomorrow.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

knef said:


> 8 speed with lots of clearance, looking good! How much room is there between derailler and spokes in the largest cog?


Never got out for a ride this weekend, so the ride report is still pending. There's about 1/4" of clearance between the inboard derailleur cage and the spokes.

Lynx - there was just over 1/4" of threading on the RD bolt , so I probably got 80% of the threads into the hanger.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Finally got a ride in. SOOO close to perfection. The shifting was perfect and everything was going well until I started getting ghost shifting. Turns out I've got a stiff link that needs to be addressed. I'll post back once I get the link fixed.


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## Quadzilla81 (Nov 13, 2010)

I found this for a first position 15t cog.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/160508750586?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Guys,

I'm seeing that you have gotten your hands on 10-speed parts already. Is it true that Shimano Dyna-sys cassette cogs are the same thickness as 9-speed cogs, and that Shimano Dyna-sys chains are the same width _between inner plates_ as 9-speed chains?


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

AMAZING! I love the setup (had to get a stiff link fixed, now I'm good). The shifting is super crisp and fast - I would highly recommend this mod to anyone looking to get a wide range of gears with a SS hub.

@J. Random - the only similarities that exist between Dynasys and other shimano stuff is that the C-C spacing is the same as other 10s components. Cog thickness, chain dimensions, etc is all different.
Short version - Dynasys cassettes require dynasys chains. Dynasys chains are compatible with 9s chainrings. The story gets more complicated for shifters and derailleurs.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

DT Swiss 240s with carrier from XT 11-34 (had it ground at a machine shop)


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

tedsalt said:


> DT Swiss 240s with carrier from XT 11-34 (had it ground at a machine shop)
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6H-CDvmDkvg/S_7Mu06AQ1I/AAAAAAAADxs/YlKftSl07DA/s720/IMG_0755.jpg


Hey, when you get a chance, can you post up a few more pics of this? Also, do recall how much you had taken off? Lastly, are all six of your cogs on the carrier, or just the largest 5?
Thanks.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

All 6 cogs of the carrier. I forget how much (was last summer), but I think I took the hub and the carrier to the machine shop so the guy would know how much I needed to have taken off. I'll post more pics in the next few days.


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## floxy (May 17, 2008)

Quadzilla81 said:


> I found this for a first position 15t cog.
> http://compare.ebay.com/like/160508750586?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


Any reason the Shimano 9 speed version wouldn't work on a SRAM cassette? I currently have a 1x6 with gearing for cross and i need to get a taller gear combo for the trails.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

XT 11-34 Carrier (6 cogs) on the DT Swiss 240s (with some machining on the big side)


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

floxy said:


> Any reason the Shimano 9 speed version wouldn't work on a SRAM cassette? I currently have a 1x6 with gearing for cross and i need to get a taller gear combo for the trails.


Cassette spacing differences between 9s and 10s stuff.


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

tedsalt said:


> XT 11-34 Carrier (6 cogs) on the DT Swiss 240s (with some machining on the big side)


Tedsalt - setup looks good. What's the final gearing?


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

Quadzilla81 said:


> I found this for a first position 15t cog.
> http://compare.ebay.com/like/160508750586?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


Q - Thanks for the link. I looked at the Miche stuff, but IIRC, the 15T 10s stuff integrates into the 2nd position cog to work properly, i.e. the built-in spacer thickness doesn't match up unless you've got the 2nd cog there as well.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

Running 2x6 using the Middleburn Duo crankset with 27/40 rings, and the XT 9-speed (11-34T) carrier 17-20-23-26-30-34. Working good for my purposes. I'm a clyde, so I'm just out to have fun!

alexkraemer - your setup looks nice. I may try something like yours down the road. Gotta get my cockpit issues ironed out first.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

tedsalt, what BB are you running with those cranks?


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

Phil Wood JISBRS13S Stainless Steel Bottom Bracket 68/73mm


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Cool on the 10speed stacks! 
I'm looking at possible geared setups for a I9 SS hub which would only take 5 9speed cogs. Sounds like with the 10 speed cassettes I might be able to get a 1x6 setup.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

nitrousjunky said:


> Cool on the 10speed stacks!
> I'm looking at possible geared setups for a I9 SS hub which would only take 5 9speed cogs. Sounds like with the 10 speed cassettes I might be able to get a 1x6 setup.


If you can get the 11-32T 9 speed carrier (5 cogs) to fit on the I9 SS hub w/o machining, you can get the 11-34T 9 speed carrier (6 cogs) to fit on the I9 SS hub w/ machining. That was my experience with the DT Swiss 240s.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

DFYFZX said:


> Does anybody in here do machinist work? I'm in the KC, MO area if that makes a difference.


Sorry, a little late here, but http://www.laynemachine.com/ in KCMO did this for me this last summer. Cost about $10 / carrier.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I'll let you guys know what fits asap, my builder was going to I9 either yesterday or today. He was taking his XT 10 speed 11-36 cassette with him to check fit. From what he measured yesterday, the 2 carriers will definitely fit on the I9 SS hub without any machining. An additional 7th loose cog may fit.
So I can get 19,21,24,28,32,36 on it and possibly the 17T cog as well. I'll post back once we know.


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

nitrousjunky said:


> I'll let you guys know what fits asap, my builder was going to I9 either yesterday or today. He was taking his XT 10 speed 11-36 cassette with him to check fit. From what he measured yesterday, the 2 carriers will definitely fit on the I9 SS hub without any machining. An additional 7th loose cog may fit.
> So I can get 19,21,24,28,32,36 on it and possibly the 17T cog as well. I'll post back once we know.


So you're one of the seven holding up my build!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

jncarpenter said:


> So you're one of the seven holding up my build!


LOL, nope I'm actually behind you in line (I think). I'm just trying to get all the decisions outta the way before the frame's finished. :thumbsup:


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

K, FYI the 2 carriers off a XT 10 speed cassette will fit fine on a I9 SS hub, might have to lightly skim the outside flange edge of the outside carrier if the lockring touches the dropout. It wasn't checked in a frame. So 6speed is a go. 
However you would have to mill enough of the back of the largest carrier to get the 7th cog on it, which is getting real close to the spokes. Given that the I9 spokes are aluminum, its probably better to play it safe with the 6 speed instead of 7 speed.


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## TURBOTWIST (Apr 11, 2010)

hope you will excuse my ignorance, its a long thread and i have jumped to the last page...
as far as obtaining sprockets goes, has anyone considered the 'Miche' brand? 
as far as i am aware, they sell not only individual sprockets, but also Shimano compatible 'Primato' cassettes which are rumored to be easily dismantled to yield all the individual sprockets. (whereas most other modern cassettes can only be partially dismantled?)


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

*36 tooth single?*

Does anyone know who makes a single 36 tooth cog? I know Action-tec makes does, but it was pretty expensive since it was Ti. I would like to use it on my 9 speed XT cassettes, then I don't have to machine down the extra part of the spider and I can get rid of the granny gear

thanks
DT


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## PanFry (Nov 9, 2007)

Bump


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

dtheo said:


> Does anyone know who makes a single 36 tooth cog? I know Action-tec makes does, but it was pretty expensive since it was Ti. I would like to use it on my 9 speed XT cassettes, then I don't have to machine down the extra part of the spider and I can get rid of the granny gear
> 
> thanks
> DT


I thought action-tec also made a steel version? I bought mine for $80 back in the day, and I don't think I could have gotten Ti for that price.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

----


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

After reading a few of these threads I decided to give it a go. 
-Hope Pro II Single Speed hub.
-Sram X.0 9 speed shifter and derailleur
-I put a 10mm flat washer between the derailleur and derailleur hanger
-I replaced the low limit screw with a longer one
-Unsure of the cassette, I had a bunch of old ones sitting around that I put together to make this.
I test rode it and the chain fell off the front ring going down a little 15" drop. I didn't have access to a Chain Watcher or chain guide and didn't want to put a derailleur on the front to act as a chain guide. Since I have an outer guide I ended up putting a reflector bracket on the inside of the chain to keep it in place. 30 mile mountain bike race and it stayed on. 

I ran it 6 speeds at the Cool Mountain bike race in Cool, CA this past Sunday. As shown it is 24.4 pounds. Killer fun and fast ride.

I put it back to singlespeed (magic gear) which I will run it as most of the time, 22 pounds.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

OK, I'll assume that you meant a 1mm falt washer, as A - the derailleur bolt isn't even close to long enough to do that ad you didn't say you replaced the bolt, and B your pics don't show that. So just for claritys sake please confirm it was a 1mm washer.


vuduvgn said:


> After reading a few of these threads I decided to give it a go.
> -Hope Pro II Single Speed hub.
> -Sram X.0 9 speed shifter and derailleur
> _*-I put a 10mm flat washer between the derailleur and derailleur hanger*_
> ...


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

LyNx said:


> OK, I'll assume that you meant a 1mm falt washer, as A - the derailleur bolt isn't even close to long enough to do that ad you didn't say you replaced the bolt, and B your pics don't show that. So just for claritys sake please confirm it was a 1mm washer.


10mm diameter, is sold as a 10mm flat washer. I didn't check the thickness but I'd say it's close to 1.5mm.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

OK, 10mm Dia makes a boat load more sense now  


vuduvgn said:


> 10mm diameter, is sold as a 10mm flat washer. I didn't check the thickness but I'd say it's close to 1.5mm.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

*hadley single speed 6 cogs.*

I got my hadley 135x12mm single speed hub and sram cassette in the mail today, I was able to put 6 cogs from the sram pg970 9 speed cassette on with no major mods (aside from removing a tiny bolt to break down the cassette). This 36h dishless wheel with ztr flow rims is going to be sweet on my 29er WFO. Looking forward to 2x6 hammerschmidt 11-36.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Good info, glad to hear, as I'm thiking my next wheelset will use Hadley hubs. Does it look like if you had an XT cassette and machined off soem of the carrier that it would fit 7 cogs? I'm thinking if it can fit 6 with no mods, it should work with a spidered cassette like XT, XTR/PG990 to get 7 or 8 cogs.



kitejumping said:


> I got my hadley 135x12mm single speed hub and sram cassette in the mail today, I was able to put 6 cogs from the sram pg970 9 speed cassette on with no major mods (aside from removing a tiny bolt to break down the cassette). This 36h dishless wheel with ztr flow rims is going to be sweet on my 29er WFO. Looking forward to 2x6 hammerschmidt 11-36.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

LyNx said:


> Good info, glad to hear, as I'm thiking my next wheelset will use Hadley hubs. Does it look like if you had an XT cassette and machined off soem of the carrier that it would fit 7 cogs? I'm thinking if it can fit 6 with no mods, it should work with a spidered cassette like XT, XTR/PG990 to get 7 or 8 cogs.


Actually scratch that, its 11-34, I just remembered I went with 34 so I could still use a med derailleur. Still not sure if I will have to do any mods to it to prevent the chain from rubbing on the frame on the tiny cog, but at least I know it fits. I don't think you would ever get 8 cogs on it, maybe 7 if you somehow modded a 10 speed cassette, I think with stock 10 speed spacing you would still only fit 6 cogs.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

When you've finished building the wheel, please post confirmation that the 6 still fit and if you wouldn't mind that pic showing how close the biggest cog is to the spokes -_ looks like there might be a bit more room to go closer to them, if you had a spidered cassette._ On my Pro2 with 7 cogs, the rivets are about 1mm away from the spokes, but it is machined to take 8 cogs if I so desired with some playing around to keep the chain from rubbing the frame on the smallest as you said. No need for a 36t here at least, right now I just switched to an XTR 32-11 and haven't had the time to take it to be machined, so running the stock 6 cogs pinned to the spider and use 24/38 rings.


kitejumping said:


> Actually scratch that, its 11-34, I just remembered I went with 34 so I could still use a med derailleur. Still not sure if I will have to do any mods to it to prevent the chain from rubbing on the frame on the tiny cog, but at least I know it fits. I don't think you would ever get 8 cogs on it, maybe 7 if you somehow modded a 10 speed cassette, I think with stock 10 speed spacing you would still only fit 6 cogs.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

6 cogs fit on the hadley ss hub and a WFO, all are functional and the chainline is perfect. Sill need to get the rear derailleur setup just right but right now the low and high gears function fine. I'll post some pics when I have time.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

This thread is great. A little confusing to follow if you don't keep up with it, but I am finally going to take the plunge. 

Just ordered up a bunch of parts. Going to build a custom cluster of cogs from a SRAM PG-970 11-23t DH cassette on a Hope Pro II SS hub. Going to set that up with a Dura-Ace bar-con shifter & Paul thumbie, with an Ultegra 6700 r/d. All of this will be going on a Sir9. My goal is to gear the bike so that I can ride it like an SS in the hills, but have a selection smaller cogs for hitting the flat sections of a race course. We'll see how it works out! Updates to follow.


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

In light of going less gears on a singlespeed hub. Has anybody tried how much gears will fit onto the Halo XCS hub?

http://www.halorims.com/products-details.php?id=HUHAX12K


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Got my PG-970 and did the same, albeit with a slightly tighter range.










21, 19, 17, 15, 12, 11, for now.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

nspace, watch out for chain wear with those small cogs..


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

DiDaDunlop said:


> In light of going less gears on a singlespeed hub. Has anybody tried how much gears will fit onto the Halo XCS hub?
> 
> http://www.halorims.com/products-details.php?id=HUHAX12K


No, but I'd be really interested in the outcome!


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Any tips on adjusting the L limit. 

My setup:

Hope Pro 2 SS hub with 11-21t range on the cassette
Derailleur is a Shimano Ultegra short cage

H limit was dead easy to set, I can't get the L limit set as it still shifts past the 6th cog. Is there a chance I need to find a longer limit screw for this setup?


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## shanem (Apr 15, 2008)

nspace said:


> Any tips on adjusting the L limit.
> 
> My setup:
> 
> ...


What are you running up front ? Pics?

I've always needed to get a longer limit screw. I get them at Lowe's. Not sure of the exact size but I think its an M6. I just take a regular limit screw with me and they have the little fit station where you can screw your's in to find the one you need. It is a a shame to put an ugly ass steel bolt onto a nice looking XTR derailleur though


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Chances are you might need a longer limit screw, if that's thre case then you need an M4 and they are available in allen head.


nspace said:


> Any tips on adjusting the L limit.
> 
> My setup:
> 
> ...


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Thx for the responses.

I dug through my collection of old bolts and found a bolt of the same size but longer. It was pretty old and a flat head but I cut it short with a pair of vice grips and ground it smooth. Worked perfect. I am hoping the ghetto screw doesn't stick out like a sore thumb but I can always put something different in there later.

Pics of the new build to follow sometime this week!


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

nspace, one of my setups is very similar to yours, except the derailer I'm running is a Tiagra. I had no problems with limit screws at all. The damn thing just keeps banging on the chainstay, but works well otherwise.


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## fraseot (May 30, 2007)

Selling my modified 6-sp der. See pic in post 23 on pg 2 of thread. PM if interested


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

J. Random Psycho said:


> nspace, one of my setups is very similar to yours, except the derailer I'm running is a Tiagra. I had no problems with limit screws at all. The damn thing just keeps banging on the chainstay, but works well otherwise.


Yeah its weird. I cranked the limit screw all the way and the cage didn't even budge. My ghetto screw that I found in my garage gave me a few extra mm's and it worked great. The derailleur is banging on your chainstay?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

nspace said:


> The derailleur is banging on your chainstay?


Looks like it. First the guide pulley runs into a cog (makes a loud noise too), then derailer body hits the chainstay. I even taped a piece of inner tube on there. The polish on derailer is dimmed where it touches the tape.

After years on SRAM and Shimano Shadow type derailers, this is a nightmare from the past. ) I used a Tiagra because there's a good chance of smashing it on this particular (urban) bike. Also have a Saint M800 (shortest cage) stashed -- going to rig it up when I have the time.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Just finished my Niner Sir9 1x6 build:


















I suspect I *may* need to go with a full blown chain keeper, but I know I am going to have to grind it down to fit on the White Industries cranks. I am going to see how the chain retention is with a short cage road derailleur, and my small cassette range before I invest in another component. Time will tell but I am excited to take this guy out on some trails.


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## es254 (Nov 19, 2005)

I have my Karate Monkey set up with a 2x6 using a Hope ProII and a PG990 cluster. I'm shifting with a Shimano XT derailleur and barcons on Thumbie mounts. This works great, with only needing to set the limit screw all the way in on the low side.
Also, with this set up, I regularly swap wheels to my 'road' setup using an XT rear hub. I actually move the cassette over (with the remaining 3 cogs) and adjust the L screw out. This lets me have a 2x9 with more range for my not so off-roadish trekking. 
Whole swap, including re-adjusting the brakes, takes under 20 minutes for both wheels.


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## frank85loo (Aug 9, 2011)

Go to Google. Type in "1x6 site:forums.mtbr.com". Viola!


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Three questions for you:

First: Who's on an Industry Nine hub? How many 10s cogs could I fit with no machining?

Second: I'm trying to figure the best way to build a 16-18-21-24-28-32 cassette (6 out of a 10s) using as much spidered cogs as possible. Any thoughts?

Third: My plan is to biuld a 2 x 6 Superfly 100, with 24-38 front and 16-32 rear. Any chance a short cage Sram RD could do the work? It would be 30t total (and it's the limit for the short cage), but there's also the suspension chain growth to manage.

Thanks!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Sorry, running a Hope Pro2 hub, no i9 experience. 
Running 24/38 rings and 32-16 XTR cassette, no problems what so ever using 9spd.
Running Shimano XT short cage RD with even a 34-15 cassette combo_ (7 cogs machined spider, well actually have 8 on there, but can't use smallest due to chain contacting dropout)_ and no issues, don't know how short the SRAM ones are.


savo said:


> Three questions for you:
> 
> First: Who's on an Industry Nine hub? How many 10s cogs could I fit with no machining?
> 
> ...


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks LyNx, 
I'm myself running a Hope Pro 2 with 6 cogs on my Yelli Screamy. Short cage X0 9s and single 32t up front.
Now I'm starting a new full suspended project, 2x6.
You're running 24/38 rings in front, what's your crank? is it a double or a modded triple? I'm thinking that a triple (inner and middle rings) would be too narrow in chainline.



LyNx said:


> Sorry, running a Hope Pro2 hub, no i9 experience.
> Running 24/38 rings and 32-16 XTR cassette, no problems what so ever using 9spd.
> Running Shimano XT short cage RD with even a 34-15 cassette combo_ (7 cogs machined spider, well actually have 8 on there, but can't use smallest due to chain contacting dropout)_ and no issues, don't know how short the SRAM ones are.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Not a chance, chainline using the granny and middle for a double on a triple crank is perfect, can use all 7 cogs, no issue what so ever with both rings, no rubbing on the FD or anything. When I get a chance I'll take a pic showing just how good it is. Crank is an older M760 XT, running 1 Dr side spacer on 73mm BB, Blackspire Super Pro rings. Same wheels and drive train will be going on the Prime I'm getting, only thing that'll change is longer chain, should be able to report on that in a few weeks if all goes to plan.


savo said:


> Thanks LyNx,
> I'm myself running a Hope Pro 2 with 6 cogs on my Yelli Screamy. Short cage X0 9s and single 32t up front.
> Now I'm starting a new full suspended project, 2x6.
> You're running 24/38 rings in front, what's your crank? is it a double or a modded triple? _*I'm thinking that a triple (inner and middle rings) would be too narrow in chainline*_.


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## veteran_youth (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow, late showing up to this thread (or maybe I checked it years ago and forgot....).

Anyway, I am currently running a Hope SS with 7 nine speed cogs running a full 11-34 spread. (11-13-17-21-26-30-34) The top 3 cogs are spidered from a Sram 980 cassette. The back of the carrier was milled down using a HS facing tool and a bunch of stuff lying around the shop and I just made it work. Not perfectly even but the chain runs fine. Not a whole lot of clearance between the cassette lockring and dropout, but plenty of room back to the spokes so I could face some more down if I was so inclined. Running a Saint Shadow SS r der and it did not require mods to limit, but did need a little bit filed off of the arm that the cable anchors to as it rubbed the chain shifting in the lower gears.

Also, to anybody having trouble limiting an X.O 9 spd der (I found that the longer limit screw won't necessarily work, as it will impede shifting in the higher gears), I came up with a workaround for a customer who bought a used Hope SS wheelset not realizing exactly what he was getting. I managed to use a Shimano Saint R der "mode converter" (see pic below) to create a 2nd tab for the limit screw to hit in the right spot. Required some fine (well fine for a hack bike mechanic) drilling and tapping but provided a fairly elegant and reversible solution to the problem. I only used one of the two bolts provided as it seemed sufficient. Have to be pretty precise in the placement of the converter or the limit screw will glance off of it and blow through the range behind the cassette. I didn't realize this going in but got very lucky with the placement, within acceptable margin of error. If any of this has already been gone over apologies!


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

There was a lot of useful info here that I used for my hub choice on a new 29er build, so I'll post this up to add to the resources on this mod. I think it's great, I can use 7spds across 12-32T. I ride SS but wanted the option of gears for bikepack trips or places where SS just wasn't ideal so I got a Hope SS hub and got cutting.

I cut down my first cassette using a facing tool but still had to finish by hand as the facing tool didn't locate inside the cassette body too well, it ended up cutting at a slight angle. Rotating it on the freehub let me find the error and file-scrape some material off till it ran true - a bit like truing a wheel. 
So the second cassette I did by hand from the start. Time consuming but not too much so. I posted some pics on flickr and grouped them as a how-to if anyone's interested in cutting down a cassette but short on pro-shop tools, link below.

Works great. I used a 9spd thumbie mounted under the bar. The old XTR mech needed a slightly longer limit screw as advised; screwing the original in all the way just about did it but a longer one is better + safer.


IMAG1070 by james-o, on Flickr


IMAG1051 by james-o, on Flickr


7 by james-o, on Flickr

How to do a cassette with a sharp-edged file, marker pen and a headset spacer -

Cut Cassette How-To - a set on Flickr


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

If anyone in the UK wants this cassette mod doing, I'll be happy to help you out as I have access to a full machine shop.


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## jeff smith (Jan 27, 2010)

Piece-a-cake! Did the conversion on a Singular Gryphon that I use for some commuting and XC/single track and found I was always looking for another gear so converted the Hope Pro 2 hub w/ SS 32x18 to a 36X17,20,23,28,30,34 (or what is the top end of an XTCS-M760 cassette). Matched that up with an old XTR M951 rapid rise, long cage der and some D.A. bar end shifters on the end of Salsa Woodchippers and it works flawlessly. Only modification was a longer 4mm screw in the der. to block off the ghost bottom three cogs. Also, using the lockring from the SS setup which is probably same size as a 12t. Running a White Industries ENO crank up front and am concerned about dropping the chain. So far, I've only run this set up on the street and not off-road. Anyone have any experience with chain guides on this crankset? I know WI is making a bashguard built on to their chianrings but I have an assortment of chainrings and at $70.00 for new ring and guard - that isn't an option. I'm lookin hard at the Paul chain guide.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I actually just run the 6 smallest cogs off that cassette on mine now. With the hammerschmidt I have no need for anything larger. Also, the shifting is a little smoother.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

jeff smith,
take a look at this big classic thread.

kitejumping,
what made you abandon 2x1? Absence of higher gears?


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

That's on my 29er xc / am / downhill bike. Still rocking 2x1 on the dj / trials bike.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

kitejumping said:


> That's on my 29er xc / am / downhill bike.


Wooow, you seem to be totally sorted! Where can I look at photos of this bike?


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## jeff smith (Jan 27, 2010)

nspace,
Pretty bike asd I like your set up but I got to ask a stupid question. What is holding that bike upright in the middle of the street?


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

nspace said:


> Just finished my Niner Sir9 1x6 build:
> 
> I suspect I *may* need to go with a full blown chain keeper, but I know I am going to have to grind it down to fit on the White Industries cranks. I am going to see how the chain retention is with a short cage road derailleur, and my small cassette range before I invest in another component. Time will tell but I am excited to take this guy out on some trails.


Nice!



jeff smith said:


> nspace,
> Pretty bike asd I like your set up but I got to ask a stupid question. What is holding that bike upright in the middle of the street?


Curious minds want to know!


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

james-o 
i see you are a fan of the upside shifter, this is part of 'phase 2 for me'. big fan of this when i spotted mike kloser doing this on his tricked out alpinestar at the world cup in aviemore in '89 and duly copied it and loved it. i was racing in the juniors. its always been a plan to go back to the good old days with paul/barcons set up on the new machine.

need a big spread of gears here but an 18 (or more radically a 12) but im loving the logic on this thread of single speed hubs with mod cassettes.

current set up with a jones 135mm front hub and a hope pro2 rear hub. this difference in the width of the spokes really clearly illustrates were strength can/should be added. the front is bullet proof, the back, weedy in comparision, not that ive noticed in riding yet but it is.

practically as well, a 10 speed block gets so chewed up in long grass compared to rides years ago on the same trail with a 6 or 7. throw in the debate on why we run the same gearing as a 26" and i reckon there is very strong case that this approach makes absolute sense.


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

Octavius, wow, you raced there? I have the video of that race somewhere! I watched it maybe 20 times, and we all copied Mike Kloser's shifters back then. 

The shifters work so well like this on the H-bar as they don't spoli that 'on the tops' climbing / cruising position. I have to be honest, in either position they're not that great to use compared to a trigger shifter, simply not as easy to hit the gears when you need. But they are simple and effective, I always liked thumbies despite the flaws. 
This set up may suit wider jumps in the gears, ie less changes and more SS-attitude riding - also less throw of the lever so easier access. I saw a really wide-ratio 4-spd on a Jones and that may be ideal - it was made up from Surly / Actiontec or similar 9-spd width cogs. Maybe with a few teeth filed down in the right places the shifting between a 14-19-25-32 would be ok?

My 12-32 mod worked well but only lasted a few rides until I went back to singlespeed. I'll try it with a 22-36 or 22/32 sometime as I'll need the gears for a summer trip.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

That appears to be a normal 9/10 spd freehub, get your hands on the SS/Trials version and see the difference, flange spacing is 1cm wider to the drive side, so dishless wheel - any wider flange spacing for 135mm drop-outs and it'd start to get a reverse/non drive side dish compared to a normal hub. I should be tearing down my rear wheel soon, but maybe not, but if I do I'll take a pic next to any "normal" hub I have laying around.



octavius said:


> ............................current set up with a jones 135mm front hub and a hope pro2 rear hub. this difference in the width of the spokes really clearly illustrates were strength can/should be added. the front is bullet proof, the back, weedy in comparision, not that ive noticed in riding yet but it is.
> 
> practically as well, a 10 speed block gets so chewed up in long grass compared to rides years ago on the same trail with a 6 or 7. throw in the debate on why we run the same gearing as a 26" and i reckon there is very strong case that this approach makes absolute sense.


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## Aaron1017 (Jun 1, 2010)

*My 1x6 setup worked flawless this past weekend.

Specs:*
Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials
SRAM PG-970 9spd casette
SRAM X7 Short Cage RD
SRAM X7 shifter
MRP 1.x Direct mount guide.

33T front chainring and 11-13-15-17-20-23 in the rear.

I could *NOT* adjust the L limit screw to stop the RD as it would interfere with the H limiting. Just had to be conscious and not attempt to shift past the 23T


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

Just set it up so when you shift past the smallest cog there is extra cable slack. That way the shifter won't let you shift the derailleur into the spokes.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Hey guys Im a little bit confused. As of now, how many 10 speed gears will fit on a hope pro II ss hub without modification? Howabout with a little machining? What are the best 10 speed cassettes for this application and why.

Thanks guys Im so lost reading this thread.


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## Fortyfour (Feb 23, 2010)

*I9 SS Hub*

I believe some people had inquired regarding the possibility of mating a 1x6 with an I9 Hub. So for those who inquired: I had a modified XT 9 speed cassette on hand and recently built this hub up. The backside was machined down and the pins ground as well. The problem with the I9 hub is that the drive side flange is significantly larger than what my original setup utilizing a DT Swiss 240S hub was. I had to space the cassette back out using a 5mm spacer. The cassette body is ~19mm in diameter which is about the same as my DT Swiss 240S - but the drive side flange created the interface problem between spoke/carrier. I will take some additional shots with an unmodified XT carrier shortly. But I do not believe an unmodified XT carrier will work with an I9 SS hub out of the box. More shortly.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Fortyfour said:


> I do not believe an unmodified XT carrier will work with an I9 SS hub out of the box.


Unmodified XT 9spd carrier (5 cogs) do fit the I9 SS hub, I have both them and tried, no pics unfortunately. I'm willing to fit 6 10spd cogs on it for my next build, hoping to be able to do it with no machining at all. Tried with an Ultegra road cassette and it works, as long as the smallest is a first position cog. Now I'm waiting to build a 16-19-22-26-30-34 10spd cassette.

EDIT: Just seen that Fortyfour's pictured hub is a classic I9 hub. Mine is instead an I9 wheelset with alu spokes, so it's a bit different.


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## Fortyfour (Feb 23, 2010)

savo said:


> EDIT: Just seen that Fortyfour's pictured hub is a classic I9 hub. Mine is instead an I9 wheelset with alu spokes, so it's a bit different.


That's good to know. So their proprietary I9 SS hub works then. I'll post up pics of the classic with a non-modified XT 9spd cassette.


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## bushwanker (Oct 2, 2005)

*Cassette cutting*

Great thread with lots of info; wanted try this as an alternative to winter SSing and having an old XT cassette with worn out smaller cogs, it was only a matter of making some room for one extra cog to fit, since ideally I needed a bit higher than 18t for roads and such. Being a cheap ass and no lathes around, I came up with this:






Worked out better than expected, I had to put one 1mm spacer behind the 6-speed cluster because rivets/tabs on the big cog were slightly contacting the spokes without it.

1x7 speed karate monkey specs:

Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials
XT M750 9-s cassette carrier (cut down) + DX cog =>15-34 rear cluster.
XTR RD-M970 Rapid rise RD
SRAM Rocket 9-s trigger shifter
32T ramped front chainring and Brand-X bash ring.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Looking at my Chris King singlespeed hub, I'm not sure how a setup with any standard cassette would work because I can't find a space on the cassette body for the larger spline that standard cassettes have (you know how they are all small except that one fatty). 

I'm hoping that makes sense. 

I know people aren't machining down that larger spline (male part) on the cassette to fit the hub...Or are you? I'm assuming the Hope has a proper spacing for that big one on their SS hub body and the King doesn't.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

appleSSeed, yes, machining cassette spiders to fit CK SS freehub body has been done many times. Take a look there, for instance. It's been mentioned in this thread too, if I recall correctly.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Ahhh. Thanks man. I've read this thread a million times as actually had that Waltworks page bookmarked. Didn't know about grinding the "key cog" down though. Thanks!


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

savo said:


> Unmodified XT 9spd carrier (5 cogs) do fit the I9 SS hub, I have both them and tried, no pics unfortunately. I'm willing to fit 6 10spd cogs on it for my next build, hoping to be able to do it with no machining at all. Tried with an Ultegra road cassette and it works, as long as the smallest is a first position cog. Now I'm waiting to build a 16-19-22-26-30-34 10spd cassette.


Got an XT 10spd cassette and tried with the 2 carriers (6 cogs) on the I9 hub. It works, closed with his 11t lockring.

But now a new problem: XT rear derailleur does not clear the spokes! You can see the picture, it's taken with a 1mm washer between mech and hanger (otherwise it would not clear even the 34t cog). 
Do you think a different Shimano derailleur could work? XTR? 
I think Sram would have no problem but I have Shimano triggers.


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## Fortyfour (Feb 23, 2010)

*I9 Traditional Hub*

Clarification: I had a previous season's XT cassette where the pins on the carrier were a bit longer than they are now. Post grind, they fit just fine. Darn close! But fits. The newer carriers have lower profile pins and fit sans modification. (which I found out when I replaced my drivetrain recently...)


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

LyNx said:


> Good info, glad to hear, as I'm thiking my next wheelset will use Hadley hubs. Does it look like if you had an XT cassette and machined off soem of the carrier that it would fit 7 cogs? I'm thinking if it can fit 6 with no mods, it should work with a spidered cassette like XT, XTR/PG990 to get 7 or 8 cogs.


Did you ever do this?

The Hadley Ti def needs the full carrier.. I want the SS version of this hub but I need that 11T!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

For the person who asked, sadly no, financially I haven't been able to afford that 2nd wheelset I was wanting with the Hadley hubs, but my Pro2 set is still going strong. Am hoping that sometime in early 2013 I'll have the $$ to be able to get the Hadley set.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Just a bump and an update.
For kicks I tryed to see how many 10 speed cogs would fit on my Hope pro 2 ss hub.

I fit 7 cogs withoud modification on from my road bikes cassette 1070 sram. I used 23 21 19 17 15 13 12.

I am fairly certain that with a little machining, 3 mms or so, I can fit an eighth. 

When I score a gearplug for my jabberwocky, I will try the same with an XO twist shifter and a sram derailleur of sort. Ill use my road racing cassette for now to keep the cost down(that **** is lame anyway). Will post the result.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Unless something's radically different between 9 and 10 spd you should actually quite easily be able to fit 8 9spd cogs on the Hope SS/Trials freehub, so fitting 8 10spd shouldn't be an issue. Again FYI, I had 5mm machined off my 9spd XT M760 cassette to make 8 cogs fit - didn't work, but they fit, stuck to using 7 instead of going through the hassle to make the 8 work.

I'd love to use some 10spd cogs, but they don't make a RR 10spd RD, so would have to try using a 9spd RR RD with the 10spd cogs and chain and right now not a top priority for me.



Sheepo5669 said:


> Just a bump and an update.
> For kicks I tryed to see how many 10 speed cogs would fit on my Hope pro 2 ss hub.
> 
> I fit 7 cogs withoud modification on from my road bikes cassette 1070 sram. I used 23 21 19 17 15 13 12.
> ...


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

LyNx said:


> Unless something's radically different between 9 and 10 spd you should actually quite easily be able to fit 8 9spd cogs on the Hope SS/Trials freehub, so fitting 8 10spd shouldn't be an issue. Again FYI, I had 5mm machined off my 9spd XT M760 cassette to make 8 cogs fit - didn't work, but they fit, stuck to using 7 instead of going through the hassle to make the 8 work.
> 
> I'd love to use some 10spd cogs, but they don't make a RR 10spd RD, so would have to try using a 9spd RR RD with the 10spd cogs and chain and right now not a top priority for me.


You dont think you could use a standard derailleur as long as your cassette stack was pretty close? 2 tooth jumps instead of 4 or 5?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I want to use the RR (rapid rise) RD because I like the way it shifts, that the spring pulls the chain to the easiest gear when no shifter is attached, so is easier on my thumb, nothing to do with tooth jump. Questioning if the 9spd RD will work with 10spd chain and cogs as I know that they say the new 10spd stuff has different cable pull, although they say the old 10spd bar shifters would work, they're $$$.



Sheepo5669 said:


> You dont think you could use a standard derailleur as long as your cassette stack was pretty close? 2 tooth jumps instead of 4 or 5?


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## alexkraemer (Jul 30, 2007)

8 speed is super easy. See this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/8-cogs-ss-hub-working-flawlessly-1x8-glory-677358.html

8 cogs (10 speed) on a Hope SS hub. Removed 3mm from the carrier, spaced out the derailleur and good to go. I went with Sram shifting.


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## zerodish (Jun 17, 2006)

I ran into the jockey pulley problem when I started building dishless wheels. First you need to move the derailer out this can be done by putting a 2mm spacer on the derailer fixing bolt it is 10mm so an axle spacer will work this is the most you can do without risking damaging the derailer hanger. If this is not enough you can pull the derailer back i saw one person use a spring I used a string attached to the fender strut. Or you could just buy a Shimano megarange derailer which will work without modification. 48_tooth_cog | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## zerodish (Jun 17, 2006)

There are still a few 33 teeth Ritchey cogs available Gear-To-Go Tandem Bicycles these are offset and function as their own spacer. I suggest something like a 33 23 20 17 15 13 I've tried to have larger cogs made offset like the Ritchey but no one wants to do it.


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## morphintra (Jul 28, 2012)

I just finished a 1x7 drive chain:

1. DT Swiss SS hub
2. SLX 10sp 34 - 11, 3mm shaved off flange on inside spider
3. Punch out the 3 rivets joining the main sprocket 'clump' on the SLX 10sp 34 - 11 (easy)
4. Punch out the 3 rivets joining the main sprocket 'clump' on the SLX 10sp 32 - 11 (more expense)
5. Mix the 22t and 18t from the SLX 10sp 32 - 11 with the 15t from the SLX 10sp 34 - 11, re - rivet the resulting cluster if you want to go easier on the cassette freehub body splines 
6. Add the 13t from the SLX 10sp 34 - 11

= 13 15 18 22 26 30 34

This was my best solution for good range and fairly even ratios....

Add Sram XO Type 2 short cage

= Strong, light, reductionist, purist, clean, snappy, and so on...

I have an inkling that the Hope SS freehub body might be very slightly longer than the equivalent DT Swiss. If so, you guys could probably stretch to 8 with no odd ratio jumps?


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

For the record,
I never got the eighth cog working. I would have had to machine off too much material to engage the splines.

Now I have 1x7 with a XX shifter and sram force rear derailleur. The low limit would interfere with the high limit so I actually shaved off part fo the derailleur where it was causing iterference. Couldnt get a file in but I could get the tip of a knife. The AL was so soft it would shave off a little at a time.

Now its working flawlessly. My gearing is 34 front ring with 25,23,21,19,17,15,13 in the back.

I am wishing I had some granny gear though.


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

Sheepo5669 said:


> For the record,
> I never got the eighth cog working. I would have had to machine off too much material to engage the splines.
> 
> Now I have 1x7 with a XX shifter and sram force rear derailleur. The low limit would interfere with the high limit so I actually shaved off part fo the derailleur where it was causing iterference. Couldnt get a file in but I could get the tip of a knife. The AL was so soft it would shave off a little at a time.
> ...


A couple of questions about this setup, as I want to do something similar with an American Classic SS hub. I have a SRAM 1070 36-11 casssette, but the top 4 cogs are hooked together, which seems good, except that I want my biggest cog to be 25 or 26, so it won't work for me (I could put the remaining single 6 cogs on, but then my biggest cog would only be 22). No problem, I can just buy a 1070 road cassette, but I'm curious if anyone knows how many of the cogs are pinned together on say the 11-25, 11-26, 12-25, or 12-26 SRAM 1070 cassettes?

Also, I'm worried about the single cogs that aren't pinned digging into the body of my hub. (I know the hub from which I removed my 36-11 1070 cassette showed some markings from the lower cogs). I guess there isn't really much I can do about this, and if I want to use a 1070 cassette to build a 1X6 or 1X7 (depending on how many cogs fit on my AC ss hub), I'll just have to accept the fact that the cogs are going to do this? I can't seem to find a 10 speed cassette that would allow me to get the gears I want in 6 or 7 cogs (26 or 25 to 13 or 11) without just using single un-pinned and un-spidered cogs, which seem like they will dig into the free hub body under use.

Someone should really manufacture a 6 or 7 speed cassette with this gearing with 10 speed spacing to fit on ss hubs. I would think that more people on hardtails with either a rigid fork or lockout would be interested in being able to run something like 26-12 with 7 cogs on a less dished wheel. 32/33/34 ring with a 26 cog seems like a plenty low gear for those who prefer to stand while climbing - I can't see many situations where you'd even want anything lower unless you wanted to be able to sit down and spin more, which works better on an fs bike anyway unless the trail is smooth. I'm actually not as concerned with using the ss hub (except for the convenience that I already have a nice wheel with an ss hub) as with having better chain line then you get at the extremes with all 10 cogs and a single chain ring.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

If anyone is looking I have a barely used, XT, 9 speed cassette, professionally machined down to 6 cogs if anyone is interested. Pm me.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

MarkJ70 said:


> A couple of questions about this setup, as I want to do something similar with an American Classic SS hub. I have a SRAM 1070 36-11 casssette, but the top 4 cogs are hooked together, which seems good, except that I want my biggest cog to be 25 or 26, so it won't work for me (I could put the remaining single 6 cogs on, but then my biggest cog would only be 22). No problem, I can just buy a 1070 road cassette, but I'm curious if anyone knows how many of the cogs are pinned together on say the 11-25, 11-26, 12-25, or 12-26 SRAM 1070 cassettes?
> 
> Also, I'm worried about the single cogs that aren't pinned digging into the body of my hub. (I know the hub from which I removed my 36-11 1070 cassette showed some markings from the lower cogs). I guess there isn't really much I can do about this, and if I want to use a 1070 cassette to build a 1X6 or 1X7 (depending on how many cogs fit on my AC ss hub), I'll just have to accept the fact that the cogs are going to do this? I can't seem to find a 10 speed cassette that would allow me to get the gears I want in 6 or 7 cogs (26 or 25 to 13 or 11) without just using single un-pinned and un-spidered cogs, which seem like they will dig into the free hub body under use.
> 
> Someone should really manufacture a 6 or 7 speed cassette with this gearing with 10 speed spacing to fit on ss hubs. I would think that more people on hardtails with either a rigid fork or lockout would be interested in being able to run something like 26-12 with 7 cogs on a less dished wheel. 32/33/34 ring with a 26 cog seems like a plenty low gear for those who prefer to stand while climbing - I can't see many situations where you'd even want anything lower unless you wanted to be able to sit down and spin more, which works better on an fs bike anyway unless the trail is smooth. I'm actually not as concerned with using the ss hub (except for the convenience that I already have a nice wheel with an ss hub) as with having better chain line then you get at the extremes with all 10 cogs and a single chain ring.


I have an 11-23 11-25, and 12-27 1070 cassettes. All three have the 3 big cogs spidered together.

If you want to use your current cassette install one of these after your 22t and lose your 11t
Miche Shimano 25t Middle Position Cog 10 Speed - harriscyclery.net

They shift okay at best but they are also cheap.

Your single cogs wont dig in any more than they would on a standard freehub.

Hope this helps!

BTW, i upgraded to a DT swiss 240 geared hub and a X0 derailleur. Finally rocking 10 speeds.


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

Sheepo5669 said:


> Your single cogs wont dig in any more than they would on a standard freehub.


True, I'll just notice it more as I tend to swap cogs more on an SS hub. Thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll consider just getting another rear wheel with a geared hub - those extra cogs don't weigh that much and could come in handy at times.


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## BigE610 (Oct 24, 2007)

been reading this thread and i really want to try this. I have a fargo and a ss el mariachi. i cant afford a new wheelset right now so i was thinking of making the fargo a 6 speed by putting gears on my ss wheel set. it currently is set up with hope pro 2's. 

Can I use the 9 speed cassette thats on my fargo currently. Its a low end shimano. It shouldn't be a problem switching it back to ss when i need it right? 

pretty excited about this. just trying to get my shopping list in order. 

stock fargo 3
shimano deore xt rd
microshift bar end shifters.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

It's not that easy. Not all the Shimano cassettes completely dissassemble. My 11/34 9 speed SLX has the 3 big cogs on a carrier. The 3 next cogs are riveted together but you can drill out the rivets with no issues. The 3 smallest are individual. Lastly, you need a locking smallest top gear cog, which you'll need to source if you choose to run any cog other than the top gear on your donor cassette.

My example isn't as complex as running 6. I didn't like the chainline on my nine speed so I moved the cassette outward by 5 mm or so using spacers and dropped my 11 tooth in the process. My cassette thus became an 8 speed but I needed to replace the 13 tooth with a 13 tooth locking cog from an Ultegra cassette.

A locking top gear cog has the indentations that the locking ring mates with. If you don't know what I mean, have a look at any cassette's top gear.

Shimano makes top gears in 11, 12, 13, and 14 tooth. The 11 tooth uses an 11 tooth lockring. The others use the regular sized lockring. 

You'll also need a few spacers to make it all work out.

Drew


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

*6 speed with ZEE*

I just did this setup with Shimano Zee der and shifter. The Zee stuff seems really nice in general.

I used a 10 speed cassette up until my biggest, 26t, cog which is an 8 speed. It shifts fine though...I am thinking the width of 8, 9 and 10 speed cogs themselves might be the same, it just comes down to the spacers in between...could anyone confirm? That could make this a lot easier and cheaper when its time to replace cogs.

LEFTOVERS AND WANTS: I have the spidered portion of a sram 1070 cassette...4 cogs with 36t max cog if anyone could use it. If anyone has a 28, 30, or 32 tooth cog lying around they dont want, I'd be interested to give me a hair more range

Photos of my setup below. As you can see in the last pic the only downside of my setup is that the cable fastener is a little too close for comfort to my spokes. I think I'll be OK since I mostly use this for XC and skatepark and hopefully wont bash the der on anything.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

It seems Shimano chose to decrease cog spacing over making 10 speed cogs narrower. A very good move I think.

I like your setup, except the dangling lower chainguide pulley. Take a look at the likes of Bionicon chainstay-mounted chain guide. Specialized have been putting that on their rigs recently.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

J. Random Psycho said:


> It seems Shimano chose to decrease cog spacing over making 10 speed cogs narrower. A very good move I think.
> 
> I like your setup, except the dangling lower chainguide pulley. Take a look at the likes of Bionicon chainstay-mounted chain guide. Specialized have been putting that on their rigs


Its SRAM cassette so I don't know about shimano cogs...I mean in my pic the 8spd cog looks as wide as the 10s...

I actually considered the bionicon guide for this project but they just dont look up to the job, esp for single ring up front since they are not close enough to ring and allow for lateral movement. also look a bit on the flimsy side to me

The top guide and pulley mount independently on that guide so I did take your advice to tuck it up behind the ring :thumbsup:


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

ride the biscuit said:


> I am thinking the width of 8, 9 and 10 speed cogs themselves might be the same, it just comes down to the spacers in between...could anyone confirm?


I read up a bit on this, and the cogs do have different widths.

The difference between 9 and 10 speed spacing is 0.2mm for cog width and 0.2mm for spacer width, per cog and spacer. 8 speed cogs have same width as 9 speed but use ~0.5mm wider spacers

although slight, it might be just a bit too much to, say, use all 8 or 9 speed cogs with 10 speed spacers and 10 speed mech. If you did that with full 10 cogs, you'd be 2mm off at the 10th cog; 1.2mm off for this custom 6 speed. No idea what 1.2 mm would do to shifting quality

If shifting didnt suffer, this would be a good route because the cogs are cheaper and stronger

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Frame and Cassette Spacing Crib Sheet


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## textbookonewk (Apr 17, 2009)

Great thread!

I could use a little help on Shifter/Derailleur selection.

I plan on running a machined XT m750, 12-15-18-21-24-28-32 (7speeds) on an American Classic SS hub. While I haven't got the cassette in my hands yet, I am confident it will fit (correct me if I'm wrong.) I would really like to run a SRAM Type 2 RD which only comes in 10sp obviously. Can I run a Type 2 RD with a 9 speed shifter? Any other options/suggestions to run the Type 2 other than to start with a 10sp cassette?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Wow. I have not experimented that far. What I have successfully done is run a 9-speed Shimano trigger and derailer over a 8-speed cassette. I achieved it with a straight-cased 9-to-8-Shimano Jtek Shiftmate gizmo which I had mounted right next to shifter, so that (slightly) multiplied cable throw would be fed through the housing, that is, to reduce errors in the signal.

7- and 8-speed cassetes are spaced the same.

Shimano Shadow+ 10-speed RDs multiply cable throw by about the same number as SRAM 9-speed RDs. Because of this they can be used with SRAM 9-speed shifters over 9-speed cassettes.

So if you take a 9-speed SRAM shifter, attach a 9-to-8-Shimano Jtek Shiftmate to it, connect the cable to a Shadow+ RD, you may be able to shift it over a 7- or 8-speed cassette.


I'm not sure if such a trick (even if it succeeds from what I have sketched above) would play out with Type2 RD, regardless of shifter choice. Theoretically speaking, it shouldn't. But Type2 works on the same principle as Shadow+ I think. Personally I like Shimano mountain RDs more since 9-speed Shadow came out.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

textbookonewk said:


> Great thread!
> 
> I could use a little help on Shifter/Derailleur selection.
> 
> I plan on running a machined XT m750, 12-15-18-21-24-28-32 (7speeds) on an American Classic SS hub. While I haven't got the cassette in my hands yet, I am confident it will fit (correct me if I'm wrong.) I would really like to run a SRAM Type 2 RD which only comes in 10sp obviously. Can I run a Type 2 RD with a 9 speed shifter? Any other options/suggestions to run the Type 2 other than to start with a 10sp cassette?


You will need to purchase a 12 tooth top gear, and a 15 tooth gear. The XT M 750 you are planning on using doesn't come with either. You cannot use the 12 that comes with the cassette because it is not the top gear cog (it is 8th) which is the 11 tooth 9th gear.

The 750 comes in 3 versions

aq 11 12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32 This is the one you want to use

as 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34

ap 12 14 16 18 20 23 26 30 34

You can use almost any shimano 15 tooth and almost any 12 tooth (as long as it's a top gear), and could get each from the as and ap versions of the xt m750. You could also use Ultegra, LX or some other models for these two gears.

You will also need the regular lockring for 12 and bigger top gears. The 11 tooth lockring is considerably smaller.

BTW, Shimano makes top gears in the following sizes 11, 12, 13, 14.

When I converted my SLX 34/11 to eight speed I dropped the 11 tooth and replaced the 13 with an Ultegra 13 tooth top gear. Worked out great.

As for shifters I'd just go with regular Shimano 9 speed stuff. I picked up NOS XTRs for $130 a few years back.

You could check the compatibility sticky in the drivetrain forum too. The answers are definitely there.

Your spacing is still 9 speed, you are just losing two cogs.

I've run a JTek too, when I still used 8 speed cassettes and it works fine but not quite as nice as full XTR.

The only reason I dropped one cog off my nine speed was to improve the chainline. Worked wonderfully.

Drew


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## textbookonewk (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. I have the cassette part covered. Dru stated exactly what my plan is. Just waiting on parts to come in, then I will modify the cassette myself.

My back up plan will be to go with standard 9sp shifter/derailleur, but I would really like to make a clutch type derailleur work. After riding the new xx1, I don't ever want to go back to a noisy drivetrain. Thanks to J. Random, I did a little research and stumbled across this thread...

http://forums.mtbr.com/shimano/zee-licious-799094.html

Looks like a Shimano Zee RD paired with a SRAM 9sp shifter is the ticket. I plan on pairing that with an XX1 crank, and 10sp chain which also reportedly works well together. Talk about a frankenbike. If this all works out, all my boxes will be ticked.

7 speeds on a SS hub, compact short cage clutch type mech, no chain control device needed, and a very quiet drivetrain. Of course I probably could have gotten to this with a 10sp cassette also.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

textbookonewk said:


> no chain control device needed.


I'm not so sure. Zee is great and all but I'm sure I would still drop chain going fast over roots and rocks

I first rode mine without a chain stay protector to see how quiet it was and I did hear the chain ping against the frame a few times...could have been the top, but I think it isn't fail safe


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

OK, so I am going to make everyone's head hurt with this compatibility question! I really like the idea of the new shadow plus rear derailleurs, BUT, I am still in the dark ages of 8 speed (yes, I like the dark ages!) I've been running 6 8 speed cogs on my Hope Pro2 SS hub for while and it works great. So How do I get the benefits of Shadow plus, but keep my 8 speed spacing???

Here is what I cam up with: Buy a new Shimano Zee FR rear derailleur and mate it to an SRAM 8 speed shifter. If need be, I can play with some spacers where the cable attaches to the derailleur. Any opinions, should I give it a try? Maybe I should ask this in the Drivetrain forum instead.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

That's worth a try I think. But you're relying on always having a good 8-speed SRAM shifter as a spare, and they are no longer made.


If I got to building a geared bike these days (not going to -- happy with my SS), I'd simply go 10-speed spacing with Zee RD and Saint shifter. On Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials of course.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

J. Random Psycho said:


> That's worth a try I think. But you're relying on always having a good 8-speed SRAM shifter as a spare, and they are no longer made.
> 
> If I got to building a geared bike these days (not going to -- happy with my SS), I'd simply go 10-speed spacing with Zee RD and Saint shifter. On Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials of course.


I ride SS most of the time as well, but for endurance rides/races it's nice to have some gears.

I just looked into shifter options, and SRAM actually still makes X4 speed shifters. I'm sure they are not XO quality, but they are under $30 for a set!

If I was starting from scratch, I might do the same. But I really like my custom Ritchey & Boone 6 speed titanium cassette!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

friction shifters 
for example - suntour power thumb shifters
or some Shimano Bar End Shifter with Paul Components Thumbies
Some shimano bar end shifters can be friction shifters and mounted to flat bars with paul thumbies
Badfinger Straight Up Track Sweet Tuesday Morning Actual Recording From Vinyl - YouTube



J. Random Psycho said:


> Wow. I have not experimented that far. What I have successfully done is run a 9-speed Shimano trigger and derailer over a 8-speed cassette. I achieved it with a straight-cased 9-to-8-Shimano Jtek Shiftmate gizmo which I had mounted right next to shifter, so that (slightly) multiplied cable throw would be fed through the housing, that is, to reduce errors in the signal.
> 
> 7- and 8-speed cassetes are spaced the same.
> 
> ...


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## LIV2RYD (Jan 17, 2006)

I am a SS but I recently put together an option for certain rides/times of year. I run a Sram Force 10 sp road der with a shimano ultegra 11-23 cassette on my DT 240 SS hub. I simply strip out the gears that I wont need for the ride. Early season rides include 16/17/18/19/21/23. Later season or TT/racing events I run 13/14/15/16/17/18. The 19-23 is on a single carrier so these have to be run together, the rest are individual cogs. I call it SS with options. Works killer and doesn't need a chainguide up front with my XX1 crankset/chainring (32T).


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

LIV2RYD,
that sounds thought out.

Why do you run a road derailer, is it because its guide pulley stays closer to a narrow-range cassette at all cogs?

And how do you lock the cassette when 16T is the smallest cog, do you run a thin extra spacer that fits between cog and lockring?

And what lockring(s) do you use?


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## LIV2RYD (Jan 17, 2006)

Random, you nailed it. The Sram Force top pulley travels very close to the cassette thru its range. This allows you to run your chain tight. When in the top gear, the pulleys are almost horizontal. The SForce also has a very strong spring which is a big reason this setup works so well.

My local shop set me up with the lockring.


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## LIV2RYD (Jan 17, 2006)

Here are some pics of my setup. Ran my first TT of the season yesterday and went with 13,15,17,19,21,23. This setup is bombproof and with the XX1 crank/32 chainring, no guide is needed. One note, you must add a stop to the end of the lower limit screw which i fabbed out of an old derailleur piece. its bascially a threaded shaft which threads onto the end of the limit screw. This prevents my 10 sp XX shifter from overshifting. Takes a little imagination and some time but its easy with a few simple tools (grinder, hacksaw).

It takes a few minutes to remove and convert back to my 10 sp setup if I feel the need for more gears.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Meanwhile in the Nukeproof shelter...

They finally have released the Short Cassette (SC) version of 135 mm Generator rear hub. It's intended for 12 mm thru-axles and is claimed to be able to fit 6 9-speed cogs or 7 10-speed cogs. There's still 30 POE, and the freehub body (and the toothed surface) is made of steel, at least that's how I understood the description on their site.

I mailed them a question, whether the SC can be converted to 142x12, like their full-cassette 12x135 Generators.

Hub looks attractive, I think it fills the niche left by Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials.

Info from their site:










7075 alloy main hub body
7075 alloy sub axle
3 x Sealed 6902 & 1 x sealed 15268 bearings
*Steel cassette carrier with 30T steel ratchet
6 pawls with leaf springs*
32-hole
International Standard 6-bolt disc brake interface
Width: 135mm
67mm flange diameter
Spoke PCD 58mm, spoke hole diameter 2.3mm
Left side Axle edge-to-flange diameter: 35.5mm
Right side Axle edge-to-flange diameter: 37mm
End of axle to disc mount face: 15.3mm
New graphics for 2013
Designed to fit frames with 135mm x 12mm thru-axle hub spacing. Short Cassette body is designed for use with 7x10speed cassette cogs or 6x9speed cassette cogs

I take the bold section as, the mechanism is the same as in full-cassette Generator, but freehub body, into which the toothed surface is integrated, is made of steel instead of aluminum. To be sure, I asked them to confirm this in aforementioned email.

What confuses me is the yellowish tint of the freehub. I'd say it's anodized aluminum, because for steel to look yellow, it must have zinc chromate conversion coating, as far as I know. But such coating doesn't typically look that uniform.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well I see no reason why the slide through 10mm QR axle wouldn't work same as on the normal hub. I happen to have just gotten a set of the 2012 normal ones and built them up for my rigid, like them a lot, freehub has a nice light buzz to it and good engagement. I picked them up on closeout for less than a Pro2 SS/Trials hub, even with the axle conversion, ends caps etc. If you hear back from them let us know, as I haven't found them to be very quick with responding to inquiries.



J. Random Psycho said:


> Meanwhile in the Nukeproof shelter...They finally have released the Short Cassette (SC) version of 135 mm Generator rear hub. It's intended for 12 mm thru-axles and is claimed to be able to fit 6 9-speed cogs or 7 10-speed cogs. There's still 30 POE, and the freehub body (and the toothed surface) is made of steel, at least that's how I understood the description on their site.
> 
> I mailed them a question, whether the SC can be converted to 142x12, like their full-cassette 12x135 Generators.
> 
> ...


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

The full-cassette rear Generators are great hubs!
(I'm building a 26" wheelset right now for a customer, and it's Generators/WTB Frequency i23/Sapim Race/brass nipples.)

I will post their answer if it arrives. )


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, they seem really nice, good quality, especially at what I paid for the pair. Only thing I didn't like was the fact that they yellows between different products didn't match - got a Warhead bar first and liked the yellow with my blue Monkey, saw the hubs on sale and so decided to order them to "match" as I needed a set, however the yellows don't match. These will definitely be on my radar again when I need hubs, pity they don't do 29er complete wheels.



J. Random Psycho said:


> The full-cassette rear Generators are great hubs!
> (I'm building a 26" wheelset right now for a customer, and it's Generators/WTB Frequency i23/Sapim Race/brass nipples.)
> 
> I will post their answer if it arrives. )


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Well, here's their answer!



> Thank you for your enquiry. The SC hub can be converted to 142x12 with the Syntace converter kit. The SC hub also uses the same pawl and spring design as the other hubs.


Cool! :drumroll:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I really wish they would offer the slide in adapter to convert from 12mm to 10mm QR as a 12-10mm bolt on option - can't see it would mean anything more than not boring out the current axle and then just extending the length and adding threads. My current one is setup with the new hollow axle and end caps for 135x10, but I'm thinking I'm going to drill out the slotted pieces to run a DT Swiss RWS skewer instead of the QR.


J. Random Psycho said:


> Well, here's their answer!
> 
> Cool! :drumroll:


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah, it's strange that they don't have true 10 mm options, like thru-bolt and bolt-up.

Atomlab offers a nice looking 12x135 mm steel axle with 10 mm bolts, although I haven't seen one live and I wonder if it's strong enough, with those threads cut into 1 mm wall.










Speaking of DT RWS thru-bolts, do you prefer these to Hadley thru-bolts? I have both and kind of like Hadley more, because it looks much cleaner. But DT has more nice parts to it, like serrated steel rings and the rubber o-ring which helps the nut to stay on the bolt.


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## jave-mtr (Jan 4, 2007)

Digging this old thread back up for a question:
Most of the six sprocket setups here are using older components. I keep hearing that the newer Shadow+ derailleurs will not work properly with this setup because their top pulley is positioned closer to the cassette and the pulley will bump into the sprockets when shifting. Supposedly this is an inherent problem that can't be changed with adjusting the derailleur.
Is anybody successfully running something like a Saint short cage Shadow derailleur in a 6 speed setup on a SS hub? Please let me know your experiences! Thanks


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

It's a potential problem with any derailleur. The biggest cogs have been moved outwards by such a conversion and the B screw can only accommodate this to a certain degree.

My conversion wasn't too severe as I only removed one cog from my 9 speed cassette. I dropped the 11 tooth and moved the cassette outwards by roughly 5 mm. Doing so put my 34 tooth in the location where the 30 tooth normally sits, and the derailleur shifts fine. 

However, if I had dropped two cogs, the 34 tooth would be in the position where the 26 tooth sits and that might be a problem for my derailleur. Who knows?

Drew


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

jave-mtr said:


> Digging this old thread back up for a question:
> Most of the six sprocket setups here are using older components. I keep hearing that the newer Shadow+ derailleurs will not work properly with this setup because their top pulley is positioned closer to the cassette and the pulley will bump into the sprockets when shifting. Supposedly this is an inherent problem that can't be changed with adjusting the derailleur.
> Is anybody successfully running something like a Saint short cage Shadow derailleur in a 6 speed setup on a SS hub? Please let me know your experiences! Thanks


I'm running a six speed configuration with a SRAM type 2 XO. The newer 10 speed derailers are designed to accommodate a 36t cog and in regard to the XO the cage pivot is located above the upper pulley rather than being concentric to it so the upper pulley swings away from the cog set further as it is downshifted rather than the straight line prescribed by the parallel links.

I had a much easier time with the 10spd XO than I did with a 9spd Shimano m972.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

Jon Richard said:


> I'm running a six speed configuration with a SRAM type 2 XO. The newer 10 speed derailers are designed to accommodate a 36t cog and in regard to the XO the cage pivot is located above the upper pulley rather than being concentric to it so the upper pulley swings away from the cog set further as it is downshifted rather than the straight line prescribed by the parallel links.
> 
> I had a much easier time with the 10spd XO than I did with a 9spd Shimano m972.


If you can find my post you'll see I did it with zee. You may be limited in your max tooth size. Currently my max tooth is 29t....I have room for bigger cog but I don't know how much more room...if someone wants to send me a 32t cog, I will happily do some testing


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## Nyquist (May 12, 2005)

> Digging this old thread back up for a question:
> Most of the six sprocket setups here are using older components. I keep hearing that the newer Shadow+ derailleurs will not work properly with this setup because their top pulley is positioned closer to the cassette and the pulley will bump into the sprockets when shifting. Supposedly this is an inherent problem that can't be changed with adjusting the derailleur.
> Is anybody successfully running something like a Saint short cage Shadow derailleur in a 6 speed setup on a SS hub? Please let me know your experiences! Thanks


I run a 9sp Saint M810 der. with a Hope SS hub and 7 cogs off a 770 XT cassette, works well with just a washer between the der and the frame to space it out a fraction.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Just for reference, just fit the six smallest cogs off of a SRAM PG950 on a Hope SS hub with zero problems. All 9 cogs are held together with one bolt, so you can skip cogs if you want. I did not try it with a deraillier yet- that's the next step. It gave me a 12-24 range, so combined with a 32 front, it would be an improvement for my aging knees over SS.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Please humor me with my question. I want to set up my bike 1x6. I have a Hope SS Trials rear hub, a modified XT 9 speed rear cassette and a nice friction thumb shifter. What rear derailleur will work best with the least modification?


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

pulsepro said:


> Please humor me with my question. I want to set up my bike 1x6. I have a Hope SS Trials rear hub, a modified XT 9 speed rear cassette and a nice friction thumb shifter. What rear derailleur will work best with the least modification?


Not sure what would work best since I've only tried my zee RD with this setup, but I'll report on that. EDIT: I have done ZERO modification to my shifter/der.

It works great, but I will say that with a zee, the max tooth largest cog you can get is probably around a 31 or 32t. I have a 30t largest, and that fits comfortably...I dont know exactly how big you can go, a little but not a TON of extra room beyond 30t.

There is another slight downside to using shimano RDs (zee for sure) which is that the cable clamp sits far out from the der body and gets close to the cogs and spokes at various times throughout the range. As long as youre watching out for this, you can get your cluster spaced such that it is not an issue, and the zee is so stout and tucked away I'm not too worried about banging/bending it into my spokes.

There have been times when I was starting out with this setup where I thought I was stupid for committing to such a customized setup since you give up some future flexibility for the nicer rear wheel setup. But with my latest iteration (mavic en521 rim on hope pro2 ss, 28t spiderless N/W wolftooth chainring, MRP top guide, 12-30t rear cluster, zee RD on a devinci dexter), I have been absolutely loving it!!

Good luck!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

pulsepro said:


> Please humor me with my question. I want to set up my bike 1x6. I have a Hope SS Trials rear hub, a modified XT 9 speed rear cassette and a nice friction thumb shifter. What rear derailleur will work best with the least modification?


Hard to say which one will work best. The most important question is what is the largest cog on your cassette? If it's 36 or 34, I'm not sure what will work. Smaller than that and pretty much any 8 or 9 speed Shimano der. will work. The only mod might be the need for a longer limit screw on one side.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Sweet setup, RTB!


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Sweet setup, RTB!


Thanks!! Actually since Bikeny's post reminded me, I did grab a longer screw for my high limit. I didnt really need it and ran without for a while...I'd say grab one if you remember next time youre at HW store but you can probably set up without it just fine.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

bikeny said:


> Hard to say which one will work best. The most important question is what is the largest cog on your cassette? If it's 36 or 34, I'm not sure what will work. Smaller than that and pretty much any 8 or 9 speed Shimano der. will work. The only mod might be the need for a longer limit screw on one side.


Right now, I'd like to run a 34 as my largest cassette. Hmmm


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Newest SRAM X5 9sp med rear d (think it's 13') has a ton of clearance, think they've updated for 36t. Gripshift...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, I've been successful running first a Rapid Rise XT M760 RD and now XT M770 RD using 32/34 biggest cogs and the only "mod" I did was use a longer limit screw and B-tension screw.



pulsepro said:


> Please humor me with my question. I want to set up my bike 1x6. I have a Hope SS Trials rear hub, a modified XT 9 speed rear cassette and a nice friction thumb shifter. What rear derailleur will work best with the least modification?


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## veteran_youth (Nov 21, 2006)

pulsepro said:


> Please humor me with my question. I want to set up my bike 1x6. I have a Hope SS Trials rear hub, a modified XT 9 speed rear cassette and a nice friction thumb shifter. What rear derailleur will work best with the least modification?


Saint M810 here.....was running w 7spd 11-34 (couple big jumps in there) and it was ok but had to file a little off the cable anchor arm or it would rub the chain when shifting in the larger cogs. Could almost get away with the existing limit screw but subsequently replaced. Hope pro II trials, F Pauls/DA barcon mounted upside down on RH side.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Atomlab offers a nice looking 12x135 mm steel axle with 10 mm bolts, although I haven't seen one live and I wonder if it's strong enough, with those threads cut into 1 mm wall.


With M10x1 threads the tap drill would be 9 mm, the outer diameter of the thread is 10 mm so that leaves 1 mm of untouched wall.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Coincidentally I found another one yesterday, but it uses thinner bolts and reduces to what looks like 10 mm at ends:

135mm Rear Conversion Axle | SUNringlé


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## larsbaby (Apr 11, 2005)

LyNx said:


> Shimano and SRAm already do, they just provide a few more cogs than you'll need  Seriously! Problem isn't with the cassettes, you can take your pick of options, if you want 6 cogs, get a 34-11, if you want 5 get the 32-11.
> The problem lies in the derailleur hangers currently on the market for bikes, they do not allow you to move the derailluer and hence the pulleys far enough back to not contact the largest cog, if someone was to produce a hanger that dropped the RD 5mm that would probably take care of the probblem. Also they'd need to make the lip bigger (should do this anyways, cause current lips on hangers are shite) and maybe move the mounting hole back a couple MMs.


OMG this is GENIUS! I've been tinkering with my setup for months (hope singlespeed hub, 9 speed XT shadow RD, 17-34 XT 6 cog spider) and despite using a washer at the RD hanger, I still have to adjust when the cable stretches to adjust out the extra click.

My setup has shifted fine, though I think it would shift better with a non-shadow, as I sometimes get contact in the bigger cogs if I shift up too quickly or do multiple clicks, and my longer b-screw definitely slows down shifting a little.

I never once thought of just having someone at a machine shop make me a derailleur hanger - spacing it away would help with the clearance issues and I could probably run a normal b screw...


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

larsbaby said:


> OMG this is GENIUS! I've been tinkering with my setup for months (hope singlespeed hub, 9 speed XT shadow RD, 17-34 XT 6 cog spider) and despite using a washer at the RD hanger, I still have to adjust when the cable stretches to adjust out the extra click.
> 
> My setup has shifted fine, though I think it would shift better with a non-shadow, as I sometimes get contact in the bigger cogs if I shift up too quickly or do multiple clicks, and my longer b-screw definitely slows down shifting a little.
> 
> I never once thought of just having someone at a machine shop make me a derailleur hanger - spacing it away would help with the clearance issues and I could probably run a normal b screw...


Exactly right. My 6-speed solution is gathering dust, due to lack of such a derailleur hanger. I wishfully thought about CNC fabricating a suitable hanger, but I'm stuck at the design step.


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm running a SRAM XO 10spd rear derailer. The hanger pivot is above the upper pulley rather than concentric with it and it perscribes an arc as it swings instead of just a straight line following the paralell links.

Basically the 10spd stuff is meant to go up to a 36t and can accomodate a larger sixth position cog. I have a 14t-28t cassette and didn't add any B tension at all. I don't think I would have a problem going up to a 32t whereas 28t is the limit with my other bike using a 9spd Saint derailer.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

can someone remind me...isnt (or wasnt) there someone making custom cassettes for this application?

I think if you were willing to have tighter gaps among the small cogs then wider and wider the last 2 or 3 cogs you could get a nicer range with a med cage XT shifter?

Basically, really really loving my setup for the trails I specifically built this setup for but recently rode it up a new and unrelentingly steep trail where my 28t front 12-29t cluster just wasnt quite enough and had me walking up 2 of the sustained pitches, and thinking about a future improvement that would be more friendly with that one trail. I currently have zee der

I'd love either cheapo or full on elegant solutions to get me just a bit more range, and would be good to know just how much T capacity the existing zee der has

and lastly, i cant say enough how much I've loved this setup on my fast XC bike (still has an old pike up front so it can rumble too...bit of split personality). there is something to be said about setting up your gearing just a little harder than you can currently ride comfortably...ride it a number of times over a couple weeks and all of a sudden youre comfortable AND riding faster...

wouldnt need a ton more range; I bet a 32t large cog would be more than enough for it


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

jave-mtr said:


> Digging this old thread back up for a question:
> Most of the six sprocket setups here are using older components. I keep hearing that the newer Shadow+ derailleurs will not work properly with this setup because their top pulley is positioned closer to the cassette and the pulley will bump into the sprockets when shifting. Supposedly this is an inherent problem that can't be changed with adjusting the derailleur.
> Is anybody successfully running something like a Saint short cage Shadow derailleur in a 6 speed setup on a SS hub? Please let me know your experiences! Thanks


Yep, just gotta share my (newly) successful 6-speed configuration....

Hadley 135*10 Single-Speed hub
 Modified PG-990 cassette with 6-cogs and machined spider
 Saint RD-M810, with ~2.5mm spacer (NB. this bit's the secret-sauce)!!! 

BTW, I've had all these components gathering dust in the shed for ages, but got disheartened when I couldn't make sufficient clearance between cogs and the top jockey-wheel. But yesterday I fitted a magic 'spacer' under the RD, and now it runs smooth as a baby's bottom. Awesome!


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

hootsmon said:


> Yep, just gotta share my (newly) successful 6-speed configuration....
> 
> Hadley 135*10 Single-Speed hub
> Modified PG-990 cassette with 6-cogs and machined spider
> ...


I subscibed to this thread a ways back and followed along, glad to hear it finaly came together for you-congrats!


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Jon Richard said:


> I subscribed to this thread a ways back and followed along, glad to hear it finally came together for you-congrats!


Thanks  In fact it's turned out so good I reckon it warrants some nice close-up pictures. Will post 'em soon.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

ride the biscuit said:


> can someone remind me...isnt (or wasnt) there someone making custom cassettes for this application?
> 
> I think if you were willing to have tighter gaps among the small cogs then wider and wider the last 2 or 3 cogs you could get a nicer range with a med cage XT shifter?
> 
> ...


I just setup my fat bike as a 2x6 (32/22x11-34) using Shimano twist tooth 6-sp cogs and spacers and an 11T (9-sp) small cog and lockring. Too wide for a SS/trials cassette hub, but fine on a 8/9/10-sp with spacers. SunTour Accushift 6-sp barend shifter (dropbars) and a 6-sp chain.
Works perfectly. Ratio jumps are fine on the trail, but not so good if doing long road sections--but it is a trail/fat bike, so I do not care.


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## thook (Jan 2, 2012)

Just happened across this thread while google surfing for a completely different reason. After reading through the entire thread in one evening, it got my wheels spinning for ideas.

I think the idea of 6/7spds on an SS hub is fantastic given the benefit of a stronger and potentially lighter rear wheel. Man....leave it to mtb'rs to push the envelope, right? Anyway, the only reservation I'd have is with such wide ratio gaps with some of the set ups I've seen here. I like the idea of having fewer gears to skip through in the rear. With STI and a 9spd cassette, I find myself either skipping over certain gears much of the time to get through the range to where I want to be or sometimes not having an in between gear where I'd like it to be....ie, in the cruising range. The latter is mainly on the road, though. So, then it occurred to me to employ a half step set up with a granny. On that note, I wonder if anyone would be generous enough to give me pointers on appropriate gear to achieve my goal? I'm not opposed to mod'ing gear, if need be, btw.

Anyway, two hypothetical set ups here:

#1) Chainrings: 38/34/20
Cassette (9spd spacing): 11-13-16-20-25-30

OR!

#2) Chainrings: 38/34/24 or 22
Cassette (9spd, again): 11-13-16-20-24-29-34

Neither are really pure half step set ups, but still utilize the same advantage in critical areas of the cruising range for road use. Plus, the percentages when in the granny gear still remain relatively small steps. Of course, much of the time I won't need to half step particularly off road; I can just stay on the 34t chainring and drop to the granny on challenging climbs. Yes....mostly I'm a spinner. 

So, what does anyone think? Doable? I would think so given what I've seen others doing. But, what suggestions would anyone have?

TIA....

ps. This idea is with using Dura Ace bar ends on a dirt drop bar.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

thook said:


> Just happened across this thread while google surfing for a completely different reason. After reading through the entire thread in one evening, it got my wheels spinning for ideas.
> 
> I think the idea of 6/7spds on an SS hub is fantastic given the benefit of a stronger and potentially lighter rear wheel. Man....leave it to mtb'rs to push the envelope, right? Anyway, the only reservation I'd have is with such wide ratio gaps with some of the set ups I've seen here. I like the idea of having fewer gears to skip through in the rear. With STI and a 9spd cassette, I find myself either skipping over certain gears much of the time to get through the range to where I want to be or sometimes not having an in between gear where I'd like it to be....ie, in the cruising range. The latter is mainly on the road, though. So, then it occurred to me to employ a half step set up with a granny. On that note, I wonder if anyone would be generous enough to give me pointers on appropriate gear to achieve my goal? I'm not opposed to mod'ing gear, if need be, btw.
> 
> ...


Find my threads about 2x5/6-sp.
You get better shifting with 6-sp(ish) cog spacing. I used a Shimano 9-sp RD and SRAM shifters.


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## thook (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay. Cool. Found the thread. Had to use google, though. Wow.... Mtbr search function sucks. 

Anyway, gotta a couple of questions, but I'll reread/study your thread, first. Tomorrow.

Thanks!


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

thook said:


> Okay. Cool. Found the thread. Had to use google, though. Wow.... Mtbr search function sucks.
> 
> Anyway, gotta a couple of questions, but I'll reread/study your thread, first. Tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks!


Please ask your questions in the other thread.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Where is this other thread that you speak of?

Thanks!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

NWS said:


> Where is this other thread that you speak of?
> 
> Thanks!


 what about photos of the spacer?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

NWS said:


> Where is this other thread that you speak of?
> 
> Thanks!


This is the main one
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/yes-i-am-going-10-speed-495936.html

I have done several other versions since.

Basically the same setup with a SRAM 10-sp trigger shifter. Required only minor cog spacing changes.

A 1x5, wide ratio/wide cog spacing with a friction shifter, on a standard cassette hub.

A 2x6, 32/22x11-34, on a standard hub. Using Shimano 6-sp cassette cogs and spacers except for the 11t 9-sp cog and lockring. Shimano 9-sp RD and SunTour 6-sp Accushift Bar-Con shifters.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

chrisx said:


> what about photos of the spacer?


What spacer?


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## thook (Jan 2, 2012)

shiggy said:


> Please ask your questions in the other thread.


See other thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-am-going-10-speed-495936-3.html#post11496879

Thanks!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Quote Originally Posted by chrisx View Post
what about photos of the spacer?
What spacer?

the spacer from post 326



hootsmon said:


> Yep, just gotta share my (newly) successful 6-speed configuration....
> But yesterday I fitted a magic 'spacer' under the RD, and now it runs smooth as a baby's bottom. Awesome!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

the rd moves side to side, and up and down. A spacer would be needed to get full downward position on a single speed hub. How to solve this problem, and make a large cog useable on a single speed hub?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

chrisx said:


> Quote Originally Posted by chrisx View Post
> what about photos of the spacer?
> What spacer?
> 
> the spacer from post 326


This is what I see as post #326 


J. Random Psycho said:


> Coincidentally I found another one yesterday, but it uses thinner bolts and reduces to what looks like 10 mm at ends:
> 
> 135mm Rear Conversion Axle | SUNringlé


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

hootsmon said:


> Yep, just gotta share my (newly) successful 6-speed configuration....
> 
> Hadley 135*10 Single-Speed hub
> Modified PG-990 cassette with 6-cogs and machined spider
> ...


this 326

i read axle photo as 321


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

chrisx said:


> this 326
> 
> i read axle photo as 321


Which points out that using the post numbers is useless, and why quoting works.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

The down side of using a derailleur with a single speed hub is losing the largest cogs. I studied the idea for a while, until I realized this. If someone knows how to make a spacer that moves the derailleur the same distance as the flange moves... .. . Without the spacer, the derailleur will not be able to accommodate the larger sized cogs. When I realized this I abandoned the idea, until this problem is solved.

I would like to have a bike with interchangeable wheels. Front and back would both have 135 mm rear hubs. A single gear on one, and 5 or 6 cogs on the other.

Lynyrd Skynyrd Am I Losin' - YouTube


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

chrisx said:


> The down side of using a derailleur with a single speed hub is losing the largest cogs. I studied the idea for a while, until I realized this. If someone knows how to make a spacer that moves the derailleur the same distance as the flange moves... .. . Without the spacer, the derailleur will not be able to accommodate the larger sized cogs. When I realized this I abandoned the idea, until this problem is solved.
> 
> I would like to have a bike with interchangeable wheels. Front and back would both have 135 mm rear hubs. A single gear on one, and 5 or 6 cogs on the other.


Hmmm...I have been using 11-32, 12-32, and 11-34 5-sp cog stacks for years. My Shimano RDs work fine.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Um yeah, going on 6 years now on my Hope Pro2 SS/Trials hub with 6 or 7 cogs and no issues except needing the longer limit screw and B-Limit screw ut:



shiggy said:


> Hmmm...I have been using 11-32, 12-32, and 11-34 5-sp cog stacks for years. My Shimano RDs work fine.
> 
> 
> chrisx said:
> ...


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Hmm, I may have theorized incorrectly. 
What are you using for a crank set? Is the middle ring on a XT 770 far enough out? More specifically, I want a 1 x 5. 28 teeth in the front sounds better. I could live with a 32, 34.


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## Beezle Bug (Oct 18, 2011)

My lovely Jones, equipped with a Acros SS hub (I'm from Germany, Acros produces right next to my home) and my evolving riding are longing for gears for the really steep stuff and the way to get there. I'm planning to butcher a SRAM PG 950 cassette to get 11-17-26-34. 
My problem is, how to get it shifted. Due to the shadow+ technology and the damping of the RD-cage, I'd really love to use a Saint 10x RD with the 10x Saint shifter. 
Could I simply use some 10x spacers (2.35mm) to build the cassette or won't this work ? 
As far as I know and read, a 10x RD won't work properly with 9x spacing (due to different parallelogram kinematics).

Please excuse my English and thanks a lot for enlightenment :thumbsup:


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Beezle Bug said:


> My lovely Jones, equipped with a Acros SS hub (I'm from Germany, Acros produces right next to my home) and my evolving riding are longing for gears for the really steep stuff and the way to get there. I'm planning to butcher a SRAM PG 950 cassette to get 11-17-26-34.
> My problem is, how to get it shifted. Due to the shadow+ technology and the damping of the RD-cage, I'd really love to use a Saint 10x RD with the 10x Saint shifter.
> Could I simply use some 10x spacers (2.35mm) to build the cassette or won't this work ?
> As far as I know and read, a 10x RD won't work properly with 9x spacing (due to different parallelogram kinematics).
> ...


suntour power thumb shifters
The old friction shifters are what works. Above mentioned being the best. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 cogs they don´t care. As a bonus they last through a few bike frames.

Triger shifters ruined the drive train. They can NOT JUMP A BIG GAP.
11, 15, 20. 28, 34, 40, is possible with a friction shifter. The triger shifter needs the numbers closer together.

I still wonder what crank set has a smaller size ring that far out


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I run HT2 cranks, no issues at all. Don't understand the " Far enough out" comment/question. Basically running an SS/Trials hub, your cassette starts where a 150mm x 12 full freehub cassette would start and they have no issues running with a standard 68/73 BB shell, actually gets you much better chainline.


chrisx said:


> Hmm, I may have theorized incorrectly.
> What are you using for a crank set? Is the middle ring on a XT 770 far enough out? More specifically, I want a 1 x 5. 28 teeth in the front sounds better. I could live with a 32, 34.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

Beezle Bug said:


> I'd really love to use a Saint 10x RD with the 10x Saint shifter.
> Could I simply use some 10x spacers (2.35mm) to build the cassette or won't this work ?
> As far as I know and read, a 10x RD won't work properly with 9x spacing (due to different parallelogram kinematics).
> :


I think it would work with 10speed saint shifter and der using 10 speed spacing in between cogs. Especially since you will only be using 4 cogs

it would be great if you could borrow a friend's 10 speed gear to test it, but here is why I think it will work:

The spacing width of cog + spacer in a Sram 9 speed setup is 4.34mm. The spacing width of cog + spacer with 9 speed Sram cogs and 10 speed shimano spacers (each 2.35mm) is 4.15mm.

That is a difference of 0.19mm per cog, or 0.76 over your 4 cogs. I think being off less than 1mm, you will be able to get it to shift alright

Set it up to distribute the 0.76mm gap evenly over your smallest and largest cog such that on the smallest cog the derailer wheel is 0.38mm to the right of the smallest cog and the same amount to the left of the largest

OR just find a 10 speed cassette you can chop up


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## Beezle Bug (Oct 18, 2011)

chrisx said:


> suntour power thumb shifters
> The old friction shifters are what works. Above mentioned being the best. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 cogs they don´t care. As a bonus they last through a few bike frames.
> 
> Triger shifters ruined the drive train. They can NOT JUMP A BIG GAP.
> ...


Thanks for your reply, friend! Thought already about the Dia Compe ENE shifters (seem to work pretty good on a Jones bar). Do you happen to know if they also work with top normal RDs ?


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## Beezle Bug (Oct 18, 2011)

ride the biscuit said:


> I think it would work with 10speed saint shifter and der using 10 speed spacing in between cogs. Especially since you will only be using 4 cogs
> 
> it would be great if you could borrow a friend's 10 speed gear to test it, but here is why I think it will work:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your detailled reply! I searched for hours for 10speed cassettes WITHOUT spider systems for the biggest cogs - without success. Therefore I thought about using the SRAM PG 950 or 970. XT 9 speed also has the four biggest cogs on a spider, and I'd like also a smaller gear (11 or 12) to get to where the action is ;-)


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

LyNx said:


> I run HT2 cranks, no issues at all. Don't understand the " Far enough out" comment/question. Basically running an SS/Trials hub, your cassette starts where a 150mm x 12 full freehub cassette would start and they have no issues running with a standard 68/73 BB shell, actually gets you much better chainline.


I have a 135 mm hub not a 150.

It may be time for a new crank set. I would prefer one that uses a Shimano bottom bracket, the same as my xt 770 cranks. It would be nice to have a 28 tooth chain ring in the center position for a 1 x 6 set up.

At the moment I have a xt tripple. If I put the chain in 22 11, I am cross chaining a lot. If I use 32 11, I am cross chaining a little. If I use 46 11, the chain is almost straight.

Idealy 22 32, would be straight chain line, on a 3 x 9, shift to 22 34 would move chain 4mm? off straight. 22 30 should move chain 4mm? off straight the other way.

So, apparently a 34 tooth cog, or what ever your largest cog is on a single speed hub, has the same chain line as about a 22 tooth cog, or a center possion cog on a 9 speed cassette.

I would like to have a 28 tooth chain ring, and 11, 15, 20, 28, 34, 40. How does a person move the 28 tooth chain ring further away from the bottom bracket to avoid the massive cross chaining? On a tripple crank set, I would expect the 32 tooth center ring to have a straight chain line about the 34 cog on the 1 x 6. cross chaining 4 cogs while less than ideal is doable.

side note; kneel down next to your bike with your nose next to your rear derailleur. pull the derailleur cabel with your hand. watch the pulleys get closer to the ground and further from the hub as it moves inward. Would a spacer or a very thick hanger make it eaiser to shift into a 40 tooth cog.

Sweet Tuesday Morning - Badfinger - YouTube


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

chrisx said:


> It may be time for a new crank set. I would prefer one that uses a Shimano bottom bracket, the same as my xt 770 cranks. It would be nice to have a 28 tooth chain ring in the center position for a 1 x 6 set up.


Tough call to combine Holowtech 2 combatible BB and a 28T ring in middle position. It's either abandon HT2 BB and go to Truvativ GXP BB with a removable spider crankset (AKA, X.9, X.0) running a 28T ring-spider such as MRP Bling Ring etc (there's also a bashguard-spider solution by Blackspire), or use Widgit 28T chainring mounted on 64 mm BCD holes, with any HT2 triple crankset.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

All I was saying is that running an SS hub, the first cog is about the same position as it is on a full freehub 150 one. As to using a 28t ring in the middle position, don't see why not except to find one with 104 BCD. Only one I could find was the Shimano XT M785 one


chrisx said:


> I have a 135 mm hub not a 150.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

LyNx said:


> As to using a 28t ring in the middle position, don't see why not except to find one with 104 BCD. Only one I could find was the Shimano XT M785 one


You'll never find a 28t with 104 BCD...


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Lynx, that Shimano 28T ring mounts to 64 BCD holes on FC-M785, and resulting chainline is likely too far inboard for 1xN, especially with narrow freehub. Besides, it's intended for front derailer. The smallest chainring one can run at 104 BCD is 30T and there are several small and medium scale makers of these.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, was wondering about that as I always "knew" that they didn't offer it in that BCD, but didn't pay attention to it being greyed out, didn't know if it was something I hadn't seen before. Yes, actually quite a few 30t 104 BCD rings out there, have thought of making my own mini compact triple using one along with a 24t and 38t to have smaller jumps in shifting, but honestly not worth it, 24/38 works fine for me.


savo said:


> You'll never find a 28t with 104 BCD...





J. Random Psycho said:


> Lynx, that Shimano 28T ring mounts to 64 BCD holes on FC-M785, and resulting chainline is likely too far inboard for 1xN, especially with narrow freehub. Besides, it's intended for front derailer. The smallest chainring one can run at 104 BCD is 30T and there are several small and medium scale makers of these.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

shiggy said:


> using Shimano twist tooth 6-sp cogs and spacers


What does this mean? Regular "ramped" cogs? Where did you get these?

Also How do you think this spacing compares to 7-8-9-10? A lot more tolerant to everything or just a bit?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

car bone said:


> What does this mean? Regular "ramped" cogs? Where did you get these?
> 
> Also How do you think this spacing compares to 7-8-9-10? A lot more tolerant to everything or just a bit?


It means the cogs are NOS from before ANY cogs or rings were ramped ( or "preworn" as I have called them).

The wide spacing (physical distance) is HUGELY more tolerant of cable tension and debris in the works.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

shiggy said:


> It means the cogs are NOS from before ANY cogs or rings were ramped ( or "preworn" as I have called them).
> 
> The wide spacing (physical distance) is HUGELY more tolerant of cable tension and debris in the works.


Ok good to know man. Do you use special 6sp chains too?

I'm running 8sp cassettes and spacing/cogs now with 6 cogs in total. but 6sp sounds even better. I'm experiencing much better performance with the 8sp standard than the 9sp.

A few days ago I looked up the current 8sp sram cassettes and they are made out of **** steel. even unhardened 4130 would be about twice as good. So I'm thinking about having cogs machined out of hardened cromoly like 1500mpa or so. Unramped.

what is the spacing between cogs and what is the thickness on the 6sp standard? Or is there even a 6sp "standard"?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

car bone said:


> Ok good to know man. Do you use special 6sp chains too?
> 
> I'm running 8sp cassettes and spacing/cogs now with 6 cogs in total. but 6sp sounds even better. I'm experiencing much better performance with the 8sp standard than the 9sp.
> 
> ...


I use a basic 6-speed chain. Nothing special about it.

Of course there are standards for the cog spacing.
http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
Scroll down a bit.


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## divernick (May 6, 2011)

I have been an exclusive SS rider for the past 4 years. On One Inbred with Flows on Hopes (SS hub)
Now I'm building a Cotic Solaris and don't have the budget for a new geared wheelset. So 1x6 it'll be:

34T NW ring
9-speed MTB shifter, probably a Deore
Dura-Ace 7800 RD
6 cogs and spacers from a 9-speed cassette, what tooth-counts still to be decided.

The only thing I can think of that may be a challenge is the RD pulley contacting the larger cogs.

After reading this thread I can't wait to give it a go.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

divernick, for 9-speed I'd go SRAM. I think they still make X7 in 9 speed.


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## divernick (May 6, 2011)

*1x6 Cotic Solaris*

All ready to roll


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

yeah??


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## zerodish (Jun 17, 2006)

An update I've now hit 100000 miles on gearing systems I designed. These can be found on google and flickr by searching zerodish. I'm now using a Shimano high flange hub which is 53 mm between the flanges this allows 8 cogs with 9 cog spacing on a standard 7 cog cassette with no dish and without grinding down the cassette. The 39 tooth Schwinn chainring made into a rear cog is 2.5 mm thick it shows no wear and no deformation at the splines. This is mild steel less strong than 7075 T6 aluminum. The cogs are 12 13 15 17 20 24 30 39. The front is 20 36 42.


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## divernick (May 6, 2011)

So on my Solaris I discovered a few things.

Using a 10-spd Dura Ace RD with a 9-speed chain I could not avoid the chain skipping in cogs smaller than 13T. So 13T is my smallest usable cog.

The ratios currently on the bike are 13-15-19-23-30-34. I have found the jump between 15-19 too big, so I plan on revising the ratios. The lightest gears also get very little use, and I've never had to use the 34 on local trails.

Next attempt will be: 13-15-17-19-23-27

Also, I have not once dropped a chain, running a NW 34T chainring without a clutch RD.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

*6 cogs on a Hadley SS hub*

Really chuffed with this 2x6 setup; it's tough as nails.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

Hootsmon...what is your stepping, and what do you think the max range is for nice gear changing? May go this route one day if my 1X8 experiment makes me happy


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

That's just the standard 6 pinned cogs of an XT cassette and that's really all you need 38-17 will get you 20mph @ 104 RPMs, and 25mph @ 130 RPMs.



finch2 said:


> Hootsmon...what is your stepping, and what do you think the max range is for nice gear changing? May go this route one day if my 1X8 experiment makes me happy


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

thanks Lynx...I'm not up to date on cassettes as I haven't used anything 9 and above on a mtb for probably 6 years. Been rohloffing and SSing mostly. Is that a 9 spd cassette, 6 pinned like you say, with 3 loose small sprockets removed? No machining? Sounds like a neat option. Will this work on a hope trials hub? Not sure if all these hubs are exactly the same or slightly different. I am guessing the hope is a good bang for buck. Hadley look good though. CHeers.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes it should work on a Hope SS/Trials with any cassette lockring. Running 6 8-speed cassette cogs on it is also possible but you want a strong lockring with long threaded part. There are cheap Taiwanese steel ones and then there are the majestic looking Chris King Titanium ones.

What I like about Hope SS/Trials is that it's bolt-up. A very elegant wheel retention solution.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

No guessing, yes that combo will work, it is exactly what I was running for the past 6 years. The 34-11 9spd XT cassette has 6 cogs pinned to the alu carrier and the 32-11 only has 5, if you do machine the alu carrier you can safely fit 7 cogs on there. I ran the 32-11 option for a good while because it gave me a slightly better high gear of 38-16, which take 122 RPMs to do 25MPH as compared to the 38-17 on the 34-111 cassette which takes 130 RPMs to do 25MPH.

Last year though I got a Phantom and initially ran the same SS/Trials wheel I had run on my previous 4 bikes with 6 cogs, then towards the end of the year I figured I'd give a 150mm rear a try and get to run a full 9spd cassette and haven't looked back since. All the BS about needing to run an 83mm BB to get a good chainline with a 150mm rear is such hogwash and now I am thinking of moving down to a 36/24 ring combo since I'n not limited in my high gear selection from the abbreviated cassette.



finch2 said:


> thanks Lynx...I'm not up to date on cassettes as I haven't used anything 9 and above on a mtb for probably 6 years. Been rohloffing and SSing mostly. Is that a 9 spd cassette, 6 pinned like you say, with 3 loose small sprockets removed? No machining? Sounds like a neat option. Will this work on a hope trials hub? Not sure if all these hubs are exactly the same or slightly different. I am guessing the hope is a good bang for buck. Hadley look good though. CHeers.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Well they have updated the hub recently, and I have not checked part catalogs to see if the freehub bodies are the same or not, thus the doubt.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks guys, lots of good info there.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Has anyone tried a Shimano Zee M640 derailleur with this setup?

My SRAM's low limit screw becomes a high limit screw, as some others have noted, so I want to switch to something by Shimano.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I know this is an old thread, but seems like the best place to ask. Has anyone got measurements of the usable cassette area of various singlespeed hubs? I saw a picture of a Hope showing 24mm length, but I have not been able to find anything else. Seems like the King is on the short side and the Hope is on the long side. Anyone have a hub handy they can measure? I'm especially interested in the Hadley and DT Swiss hubs.


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## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

With a lot of filing on a shimano 9speed, cassette, I can get 7 cogs on a hope and 6 on a hadley, which I think is the same as king.
no idea about DT though


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

NWS said:


> Has anyone tried a Shimano Zee M640 derailleur with this setup?
> 
> My SRAM's low limit screw becomes a high limit screw, as some others have noted, so I want to switch to something by Shimano.


I set my DH bike up with that derailleur shortly after asking about it here, and it works fine. Just forgot to post about it until now.


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