# M1-Sporttechnik Fires First Salvo in HP Wars



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

The German company known for expertise in materials technology produces a $10K or so mid-drive MTB that goes 46 mph. Holy HP, Batman. They've tried to establish a US market for their bikes, but I don't think this will help.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

It'll help hasten the classification of them as motorcycles


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

It doesn't look that different than the e-MTB they've been selling for years tbh. Same specs, same very high price tag.

Id worry more about Luna selling bikes that will ruin it for emtbers than those guys.

https://lunacycle.com/luna-fusion-crusher-2/


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

life behind bars said:


> It'll help hasten the classification of them as motorcycles


KJ; just want to point out that this inane statement mentions e-bikes as motorcycles. Totally against your rules, but after all, we treat those against e-bikes differently.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fos'l said:


> KJ; just want to point out that this inane statement mentions e-bikes as motorcycles. Totally against your rules, but after all, we treat those against e-bikes differently.


No it does not, it points out that escalating power levels inches them closer to motorcycle status. Get a clue.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fos'l said:


> KJ; just want to point out that this inane statement mentions e-bikes as motorcycles. Totally against your rules, but after all, we treat those against e-bikes differently.





life behind bars said:


> No it does not, it points out that escalating power levels inches them closer to motorcycle status. Get a clue.


lbb is correct, his statement is not that they are currently classified as motorcycles, nor is he directly calling a class 1 or class 2 eBike a motorcycle, but that he thinks this sort of high powered bike will lead to such bikes as being classified such.

As far as I can tell lbb is not insinuating that class 1 and class 2 eBikes will be classified as Motorcycles because of super high powered eBikes that are being sold.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

KJ:
1) It's what I expected and predicted.
2) You get a clue. Those bikes are already classified as mopeds, so nothing will change. It took the CA legislature and the governor's signature to create the current regulations. What do you think it will take to change them?


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## KiwiPhil (Jun 2, 2008)

life behind bars said:


> It'll help hasten the classification of them as motorcycles


I agree with you here LBB. And I honestly hope that high powered Ebikes DO get classified as, or similar to Motorbikes (if that is what your referring to). Sometimes the negativity which comes with the extreme (i.e. High powered ebikes), helps the masses become more aware of that the lower classified (class1 ebikes) are not the concern that some think they are.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

KiwiPhil said:


> I agree with you here LBB. And I honestly hope that high powered Ebikes DO get classified as, or similar to Motorbikes (if that is what your referring to). Sometimes the negativity which comes with the extreme (i.e. High powered ebikes), helps the masses become more aware of that the lower classified (class1 ebikes) are not the concern that some think they are.


Agreed, this is a big point that the proponents of Pedelec eBikes need to make clear when they attend land management meetings to get a spot at the table for making decisions about access. Make it clear to the governing bodies that bikes with the ability to get up to 46 MPH probably should not have access to MUT, and show the clear difference between such a bike and a class 1 pedelec.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

These bikes powerful as they seem to be are still about one horsepower (850w, 120 nm of torque). What kind of stupidity would begin to classify them as motorcycles? As stated, they're mopeds; nothing needs to be pointed out; they're illegal on trails. BTW, the way e-MTB's are selling in OC, it's going to be a long time before we can get enough people together for a meeting, if ever.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

For that kind of money, I'm getting one of these. 39 extra HP goes a long way. :thumbsup:

https://www.altamotors.co/redshiftmx/#redshift-mx


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fos'l said:


> These bikes powerful as they seem to be are still about one horsepower (850w, 120 nm of torque). What kind of stupidity would begin to classify them as motorcycles? As stated, they're mopeds; nothing needs to be pointed out; they're illegal on trails. BTW, the way e-MTB's are selling in OC, it's going to be a long time before we can get enough people together for a meeting, if ever.


Mopeds are regulated to 28 mph everywhere that I am aware of, not 46 mph. They have more motorcycle dna than moped.


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

*California is all that matters...*

...since that's where I live.

Regarding mopeds in CA from here comes this:

_406.
(a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is a two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor that produces less than 4 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

(b) Every manufacturer of a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in this section, shall provide a disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing insurance policies may not provide coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their insurance company or insurance agent to determine if coverage is provided. The disclosure shall meet both of the following requirements:

(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point boldface type on a single sheet of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.

(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital letters:

"YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS BICYCLE. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT."_


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

*Oooh talk dirty to me...*

First I've heard of a "R-pedalec"; apparently they're "unlimited" in the euro scheme of things. (Germany anyway)






I don't sprechen German but I think I got all the points the dude was making.

Was that one of those "airbag" reactive helmets he was wearing?


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Harryman said:


> It doesn't look that different than the e-MTB they've been selling for years tbh. Same specs, same very high price tag.
> 
> Id worry more about Luna selling bikes that will ruin it for emtbers than those guys.
> 
> https://lunacycle.com/luna-fusion-crusher-2/


$250 to upgrade to 2500watts, who would do that?
Nice that they show a person with no helmet and shorts riding a bike that they don't have to pedal, blowing the doors of other riders. At least these guys are making it easy for us.


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