# WTB i23 vs Velocity Blunt SS for bikepacking. Or something else?



## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm building a 29er dynamo wheelset for my Fargo and I'm trying to decide on rims. I'd like to do some weekend bikepacking, and possibly a little on-road touring of the BRP. I don't anticipate any heavy singletrack use, mostly just washboarded/rutted forest roads, and smooth trails. 

My LBS loves the Blunts, but I'm not so sure. I've been running Frequency i23's on my XC 29er with zero problems so far. I do like the width of the Blunt SS (26.6 inner width) but they seem like more of a lightweight XC rim. I'd probably go with 32h, and straight gauge spokes to save some money.

I'm 170 lbs. and would be carrying maybe 30 lbs. of stuff, hopefully less. I've been slowly buying ultralight backpacking gear which I would use on the bike. 

Any advice or other rim suggestions?

Also, anyone using an Alfine dynamo hub? Looking at the DH-S501.


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## mdilthey (Dec 15, 2014)

Something else. Easton Arc 30mm, 32H. They're wonderful. Just as wide as the blunts internally, stronger (in my opinion) because of better welds, and symmetrical spoke lengths.

FWIW, my bike shop hates Velocity.

Oh yeah, do NOT skimp on spokes. Double butted DT Swiss are waaaays tronger than straight gauge, that's where the strength of your wheel comes from. A flexible double-butted spoke with a narrower center is way more resilient and will lead to a better performing, stronger wheel.

Invest in spokes, period. Take your time and save for an extra couple weeks if you have to. Better to do it right the first time!


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Feedback on the Blunt SS seems to be pretty positive overall. You could also consider the Flow EX or the Blunt 35 if you are looking to go wider, but you will have a bit of an increase in weight over the i23 you have now. After I started getting cracks at the nipples on my i23 hoops I decided to give the Blunt 35s a shot. I have been thrilled with their performance...easy to setup setup tubeless, never had to retention after my initial build about two years ago, and zero issues despite the abuse of my less than stellar line selections on very rooty trails.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. Too many choices! Not sure if the shop can order the Easton's, I'll check. Don't really want to go as wide as 30mm though. I'll only be running 2.35's or smaller.



mdilthey said:


> Double butted DT Swiss are waaaays tronger than straight gauge, that's where the strength of your wheel comes from.


What about Wheelsmith butted spokes? LBS uses them.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

A1an said:


> After I started getting cracks at the nipples on my i23 hoops I decided to give the Blunt 35s a shot. I have been thrilled with their performance...easy to setup setup tubeless, never had to retention after my initial build about two years ago, and zero issues despite the abuse of my less than stellar line selections on very rooty trails.


 Have you used either of these with a load on the bike? How much do you weigh if you don't mind my asking?


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

fwiw I've used Blunt 35 / P35s on a loaded MTB for many thousands of miles on dirt roads, Alpine tech, the lot. As many mlkes of general unloaded use also. No issues at all aside from some rim dings from low pressures and rocks/roots. They're not the best finished rim and expensive for the quality imo but they've been fine, easy to bend back the dings and no issues for tubeless. I'm 75kgs. 

For loaded riding I'd go for wider, reliable rims first and weight second. I'd not want to go much under 30mm internal width personally, even for 2.2s. WTB make good rims generally but I've not put the miles on any myself.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

cackalacky said:


> Have you used either of these with a load on the bike? How much do you weigh if you don't mind my asking?


Used the 35 laced to Hope with DT Comp spokes and a 2.4 Ardent on the front of my loaded rigid on a couple rides (two shorter loaded shake down rides and one long weekend bikepacking trip). No problems at all and I'm hovering in the mid 180s.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've got Blunt 35's on two of our all mountain rigs. Done years of rooty/rocky BC riding with them and they are in near perfect shape.

I just built up some new 29er bikepacking wheels and used Bluent 35s with Hope hubs. I haven't used them in anger yet, but I expect the same great performance from them.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Excellent, thanks for the info! Are you guys using 32h or 36h Blunts? Vik, I'm a big fan of your blog, great reading...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cackalacky said:


> Excellent, thanks for the info! Are you guys using 32h or 36h Blunts? Vik, I'm a big fan of your blog, great reading...


Thanks for the kind words.

I only use 32H on all my bikes. I've never had an issue with spoke breakage and using commonly available parts is just easier.


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## evenslower (Sep 26, 2005)

I might be the only person on the planet who is a little disappointed in my Blunt SS rims. I'm on my 3rd rear rim after having a set built up about 10 months ago, 29er, 32h with DT swiss revolution spokes, Hope hubs, running Maxxis Ardents and Ikons. Have to run the rear at 25 PSI to be extra cautious about rim strikes, was running 20-22 with other rims, because rim strikes are easily catastrophic. Managed to bend the bead hook over and ruin the rear twice now and both the front and rear have dings currently. I think they're just soft. I'm no clyde, 170 lbs and riding a rigid singlespeed so not exactly taking the gnar lines either. Been MTBing 20 years or so, couple thousand miles a year, been on lots of different wheels. 

That said a buddy has same but built on 26inch wheels and not the same experience at all. I've scratched my head over my experience quite a bit.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

32 on mine as well.


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## JayPee (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm happy with my Blunt SS's on my trail bike but for any kind of touring/bikepacking I like welded and machined rims with eyelets. I'll echo what others have mentioned as well, use butted spokes, they provide an element of resiliency straight-gauge can't match.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

cackalacky said:


> ...
> 
> What about Wheelsmith butted spokes? LBS uses them.


Whatever your LBS is comfortable with is good. Definitely butted, though. Makes for a stronger, more durable wheel.

32 spokes is fine. 36 is getting to be limiting in finding rims.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

I have the WTB Frequency Team i23's on my Fargo, with XT hubs, and I love them. Stiff and strong, and super easy to set up tubeless.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Again, thanks everyone, this has been very helpful. I think I'll forgo the Blunt SS and either go with the wider Blunt 35 or some WTB's. I've also been pleased with my Frequency's and I see they come in 25 mm now. WTB Asym's are even wider at 29mm and have eyelets.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, I'm going to step outside what you're asking about and say since you've liked your WTBs, why not give the new Asyms a look, either the i25 or i29, the i29 weighs less than a Blunt35 and I'd be more inclined to think it stronger than the Blunt. They're also running about the same or cheaper than the Blunts. Asym will also build a stronger wheel with it's offset spokes holes, improving spoke bracing angles both front and rear.

On the rim width thing, for the few additional grams you'll gain, you'll gain so much more additional support for your tyres, especially loaded.


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

I used to be an hardcore 36H defendant but then got tired of having to dig to find 36h components.

Been riding with 32h Flows EX for some months, bikepacking, commuting and beating the crap out of them with no problems.


I now feel that 36h are mostly a relic from times with weaker materials/designs and very narrow hard tires


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> I now feel that 36h are mostly a relic from times with weaker materials/designs and very narrow hard tires


Agreed.

I do think it's important to get a human you trust to tension your wheels when they get built up. If that's done right they shouldn't need much attention through their life on your bike.


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## mdilthey (Dec 15, 2014)

vikb said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I do think it's important to get a human you trust to tension your wheels when they get built up. If that's done right they shouldn't need much attention through their life on your bike.


Bingo. Tension, quality of the dish, etc. matter much more than materials strength, IMO. A master wheelbuilder can get a decent wheel out of straight-gauge spokes and a basic hub/rim, but a robot can't get a great wheel out of the best materials known to man.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I get all my wheels built by a human that lives in my town. I don't need enough new wheels to become proficient myself and the cost to get a wheel built is ridiculously low.

I'm trying to remember if I have ever had a spoke issue in all these years. I don't remember one.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Asym hoops do look nice. Really can't go wrong either way here.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

The guy that built my Frequency i23/Hope wheels will be building these. I've had no problems for the few years I've had them. Good to know that I don't need to worry about 36h, none of the WTB rims come that way. Just need to decide on rim width, 25 or 29.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)




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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Update: 
Just put in an order at my LBS for Asym i29 rims and butted spokes. I'm going to also order an SP PD-8 dynamo hub instead of the Alfine. It's almost 6 oz. lighter and has standard 6 bolts for the rotor. Any recommendations on a rear hub? I was thinking DT Swiss 350.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm a fan of Hope hubs since they offer decent weight, great reliability, and ease of service at really good prices (especially now with the holidays approaching).


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

cackalacky said:


> Update:
> Just put in an order at my LBS for Asym i29 rims and butted spokes. I'm going to also order an SP PD-8 dynamo hub instead of the Alfine. It's almost 6 oz. lighter and has standard 6 bolts for the rotor. Any recommendations on a rear hub? I was thinking DT Swiss 350.


Asym i29's are great rims. Good choice.

Hard to believe there's that big of a difference in the weights of the two dyno hubs. I have the Alfine and although I never weighed it I can't recall it having been notably heavy in the hand. Has performed without a hiccup on my cargo bike, year round, for 3+ years and counting.

DT 350 rear hubs are very hard to beat. Light, inexpensive, easy to maintain (yet rarely need maintenance), and easy to convert to/from QR/thru axle, or Shimano 10/SRAM 11. Best bang for the buck hub on the planet IMO.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Asym i29's are great rims. Good choice.
> 
> Hard to believe there's that big of a difference in the weights of the two dyno hubs. I have the Alfine and although I never weighed it I can't recall it having been notably heavy in the hand. Has performed without a hiccup on my cargo bike, year round, for 3+ years and counting.
> 
> DT 350 rear hubs are very hard to beat. Light, inexpensive, easy to maintain (yet rarely need maintenance), and easy to convert to/from QR/thru axle, or Shimano 10/SRAM 11. Best bang for the buck hub on the planet IMO.


Thanks for the info. I'm sold on the DT Swiss, but now having second thoughts about the SP hub. It looks like the hub flanges on it are centered within the axle, which would negate the advantage of the asymmetrical rim. I think the Alfine may have more of an offset, but not sure. Or if it even truly matters much. As far as the weight difference, I was just going off of what their websites said.


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

I have exactly that combination, SP dyno front, DT 350 rear.
It just plain works and wont break the bank


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

*Update*

I've had these built up for a while, finally got them on the bike. WTB Asym i29 rims with a DT Swiss 350 rear and Shimano Alfine dynamo hub up front. Wheelsmith butted spokes and brass nips. The Alfine only comes in centerlock, so I got the 350 to match. I like the easy rotor install. Will be ordering up a dyno light soon. Can't wait to take them out for a long ride.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

A1an said:


> I'm a fan of Hope hubs since they offer decent weight, great reliability, and ease of service at really good prices (especially now with the holidays approaching).


I can't recommend them as a clyde. They have a problem of breaking under high torque.

If you're small and pack light, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you're somewhat big/heavy and are going to climb some steep terrain, be wary.


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## tekhna (Oct 5, 2008)

Bringing a thread back from the dead: 

Stay away from WTB KOMs for bikepacking. Got a half dozen hairline cracks at the spoke nipples.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

tekhna said:


> Bringing a thread back from the dead:
> 
> Stay away from WTB KOMs for bikepacking. Got a half dozen hairline cracks at the spoke nipples.


If it's not too late, stick a *good* tensiometer on every tight-side spoke and report back. Curious if over or uneven tensioning is what caused this.


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## tekhna (Oct 5, 2008)

mikesee said:


> If it's not too late, stick a *good* tensiometer on every tight-side spoke and report back. Curious if over or uneven tensioning is what caused this.


My mechanic/wheelbuilder (who did not build these wheels, these are a stock build) noticed that spoke tension was uneven and then noticed the cracks. I don't remember what he said was the likely culprit though.

He was pretty horrified that KOMs would come stock on a bike built for offroad touring but YMMV.


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