# Trail building bike?



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Until recently, I'd sort of ignored this idea. But recently, it hit home, and I'm looking for recommendations. We've all seen the Moots trail building (fat?) bike, but I'm not Bill Gates, I'm just a guy who builds trail. Does anyone have a recommendation for a solid setup for trail building and transporting tools? I'm thinking the bottom line requirements are:

1) Fat Bike - conditions may not always be ideal. This should help. (geared like a tractor will help too - outright speed is not a concern)
2) The ability to mount tool/chainsaw racks or easily fit a trailer
3) Priced like it will be used as a trail building tool, not a racing bike

Ideas for the actual racks would be a bonus. One of my biggest (or should I say weightiest) gripes is my chain saw. It is quite literally a pain to carry if you have to walk it in more than a half mile or so. 

Now, before someone asks why I don't just get a trailer, since that would cheaper than anything else, I'm not pulling a trailer with my SS, and my other bike would probably break if I put a trailer behind it. Ok, that's it. Let me have it.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

This is my Coconino trail work bike with an 8 speed IGH. I carry a hand saw, and I can strap a McCleod or other long handle tool if necessary, but this is my blow down clearing set up. Not a fatty but they are just a passing fad.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Agree, don't think you need a fatty for this, my KM has work fatastically for me lugging about 40lbs of gear strapped to it or on a rear rack, just use nice fat tyres tubeless, maybe a 29+ front.


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

I prefer my Fatbike as it has a frame bag and flat pedals, and I can fit a rack if needed. Flats are nice so I can wear work boots, frame bag is good for water , layers, work gloves, etc. I use a dakine builders pack to carry a saw or hedge trimmer. The pack gets awful heavy fast, that's why I like to use the frame bag, to reduce weight on my back. 

I suppose the fat tires aren't really necessary, just that it's already set up the way I want a "work bike". The fat bike does excel on unfinished trails, or areas where there is no trail yet. 

And fatbikes may be somewhat of a fad, but they aren't going anywhere. Fat bikes are here to stay.




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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I've been happy with trailers for hauling gear, especially if I'm leading a crew. I don't see any other way to carry 4 Pulaskis, 2 Macleods, 2 shovels and 4 buckets into the woods on singletrack. If I'm solo, I'll strap the Macleod to the frame with the head forward of the bar, and put a mattock and handsaw in my pack. We typically don't take a chainsaw in unless we're clearing a corridor on a new build, as the trees are skinny pine and easy to remove with the handsaw for the most part.

As to the bike, I usually take my hardtail [On-One 456C]. I have just about destroyed the rear rim, so I'll swap in something more burly. I don't see the point in taking my fat bike in for trail building, as the hardtail has lower effective gearing, front suspension [lots of roots and rocks on the trails], and I don't need to adapt a trailer to fit a 170 rear end. The hardtail is a blast on rolling singletrack, and getting a bit of air with a loaded trailer is quite an experience...


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^ Totally jk icj, I'm currently cued up for a custom 29+ that can handle 5" tires. A trailwork bike is basically a packing bike with some provisions for tool carrying. LyNx's setup is real practical and workable. I have added a frame pack, and sometimes a seatpack for bulky clothing or lunch and an extra six pack. The saw scabbard isn't noticeable while riding and is safe and convenient. I have been thinking of getting a shovel scabbard made for long handled tools, sometimes constantly strapping it on and off gets to be a drag.


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## casey (Jan 12, 2004)

Google "Moots Trail Maintenance Bike". May not be able to do everything but it's got the drool factor. It was built for the Denver NAHBS several years ago and was supposed to be donated to the Routt County Riders in Steamboat. Lucky dogs.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Dakine pack w/saw plus these combos would work great to get a handful of folks working.

We have a bob trailer but never seem to use it. The dakine pack though, its used all the time for nearly everything.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

casey said:


> Google "Moots Trail Maintenance Bike". May not be able to do everything but it's got the drool factor. It was built for the Denver NAHBS several years ago and was supposed to be donated to the Routt County Riders in Steamboat. Lucky dogs.


I've seen it. I think I addressed this in my original post?

Some thoughts now that I've had time to do more than just post a throw out question:

Fatbike, because a lot of what I'm riding into is either unfinished, or just not built. For instance, today I carried a saw 4.5 miles (chain saw, big ugly heavy beast of a thing, cuts like hell, but you pay for it in weight) to cut out a bunch of blowdowns across a new corridor that were too big to move with a mini-ex. It's serious stuff.

Absolutely will be on flats, my work boots don't have cleats on them.

No matter what, I see this as being a "new bike" thing for me. Here's why:

Light weight FS XC rig. No provisions for racks, it's fragile (I've broken the frame once, thanks) and I don't want to strip stuff off it when I want to go embarrass the guys who post crossfit sessions at the gym or long rides at places an hour away on days I do workdays 10 minutes from their house but they don't have time to show up.

SS: All kinds of rack provisions. But it's my most used bike, and frankly, getting this thing on a soft, unfinished trail, or in slick leaves on a grade where this is no trail yet, while packing a saw or tools or pretty much anything else, not my idea of fun. Also, I don't really want to take the racks off and put them back on every time I want to take the aforementioned embarrassment a step further to outright shame.

A fatbike with a 22/36 crank and an 11-36 cassette is going to be plenty of gearing. Also, a fatbike isn't going to be as much of a handful, or potentially create as much work to do if you ride it in over soft, unfinished trail.

The majority of the time, I'm packing stuff in and out and working by myself. For workdays, I suppose it might help to have a trailer, but honestly with a fat bike and a decent rack setup, I should be able to move most of what I need, most of the time. From my standpoint, I don't really need another geared 29er (unless it's an Intense Carbine, but I don't think I'd want to but racks on that.....) and I don't have a fatbike....which could potentially be nice in this area. I'll throw this out there.

Access Chinook Bravo Fat Bike - 2015

Anyone know anything about that? Because that's about the right price range. Heck, I even have a set of BB7's and SD7's I can put on it when it shows up if those brakes suck. But then the question about racks remains. Are people running custom racks, or is there a preferred rack someone makes?


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## icecreamjay (Apr 13, 2004)

One issue with a Fatbike is that it's difficult fitting a trailer. The wide rear hubs don't play nice with trailer hardware. Fitting racks should be much easier.

I don't know if the chinook you linked to has rack mounts. 

I also have to recommend the dakine builders pack. You can carry a chainsaw in it and use whatever bike you want. 




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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I'd look at the surly pugsly ... in my pic a bit overloaded, was end of the trail work season and had to get tools out before hunting started up... I did pedal that thing that way for about 3 miles...

Pug has 135 hub so if you elect to attach a trailer via hub shouldn't be an issue, and comes with brazeons for rack options galore...

I often use it to preride a possible line even before working the tread.. something you could probably do on a normal bike, but the float of the fat and the way you can crawl over stuff.

the fat tires also aid in balancing the bike when it's overloaded with tools ...


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

icecreamjay said:


> I don't know if the chinook you linked to has rack mounts.
> 
> I also have to recommend the dakine builders pack. You can carry a chainsaw in it and use whatever bike you want.


The Chinook apparently has rack mount hardware front and rear. Of course, these reports are sometimes unreliable at best.

That Dakine pack does look like a nice option. I may end up with one regardless of what I do about a bike, but I nearly had a heart attack when I looked one up on Amazon real quick using my phone last night. Seriously, they wanted $700 for one. Of course, that makes pricepoint's $159 feel like a real bargain ....


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## C.P. (Sep 17, 2005)

The Dakine Builder Pack is a good place to start, it's very well thought out with pockets for MSR fuel bottle/water bottle, chainsaw sleeve & roll up file/tool/nail bag, first aid kit, cell phone, etc. It's not very practical for riding with long handled tools, however you can hike with long handled tools in the tool sleave. 
I know you said no trailer, but it's worth mentioning: If I need to bring long handled tools in by bike, I tow a modified B.O.B. trailer, yes with my Single Speed....In as much as it would be cool to have a purpose built trail building bike, I find just having a simple (SS is the most simple!) reliable mtb with traditional 135mm QR rear end that you can attach a B.O.B. trailer skewer to is the easiest to deal with when trail building is on the mind. I dont always tow the trailer, but I almost always use my SS for trail building transportation (unless I am running a big group of trail builders). I retrofitted the B.O.B. trailer with a 29er trailer fork, & cut & mounted some BMX rims which I modified and made into tool racks (the BOB/IMBA tools racks suck IMO). I can get to/from trail build spots with more tools in tow, faster than any other way I've tried thus far...


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

I always thought it would be a cool feature on a purpose-built trail work mountain bike to have the seat tube interrupted by an oval of tubing so you could run the handles of long tools from the rear rack up under your seat tube. This would keep the tools out of the bike's cockpit. However, it would mandate a cut-to-fit seat post.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

C.P. said:


> The Dakine Builder Pack is a good place to start, it's very well thought out with pockets for MSR fuel bottle/water bottle, chainsaw sleeve & roll up file/tool/nail bag, first aid kit, cell phone, etc. It's not very practical for riding with long handled tools, however you can hike with long handled tools in the tool sleave.
> I know you said no trailer, but it's worth mentioning: If I need to bring long handled tools in by bike, I tow a modified B.O.B. trailer, yes with my Single Speed....In as much as it would be cool to have a purpose built trail building bike, I find just having a simple (SS is the most simple!) reliable mtb with traditional 135mm QR rear end that you can attach a B.O.B. trailer skewer to is the easiest to deal with when trail building is on the mind. I dont always tow the trailer, but I almost always use my SS for trail building transportation (unless I am running a big group of trail builders). I retrofitted the B.O.B. trailer with a 29er trailer fork, & cut & mounted some BMX rims which I modified and made into tool racks (the BOB/IMBA tools racks suck IMO). I can get to/from trail build spots with more tools in tow, faster than any other way I've tried thus far...
> 
> View attachment 945825


I like the idea of simple, aka the SS, I'm a fan of them, but our hills around here would mean I'd have to change gearing to pull the trailer around. We don't have any long hills, they're all short, only 100 feet of so of elevation, but even on the trails, our climbing grades are always on the steep side. It takes all I have to get just the bike up some of these hills, so the trailer would likely be a show stopper on the SS. Still, I have a notion that being a passible welder, if I had a fat bike with a solid rack on it, I could probably come up with a way to make a trailer mount to it.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Personally I would think on a budget a trailer would be the most ideal way to carry what you need. First thought is it might suck on the hike-a-bike but being able to separate and take two trips might be easier than carrying 50 pounds of bike up. Also being able to swap from one bike to the other for certain conditions might be nice.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Cotharyus said:


> I've seen it. I think I addressed this in my original post?
> 
> Some thoughts now that I've had time to do more than just post a throw out question:
> 
> ...


If you want to use your fat bike, use your fat bike. Since you're the one riding it, you don't need to justify it anyone. Other people have other ideas and other experience that have worked for them.


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## Dave_schuldt (May 10, 2004)

When strapping sharp tools to bike you just have to hope you don't crash!


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

I will affirm that a fat bike is an excellent choice for the reasons you mention. I have a Pugsley that has become my work bike and hooks up to a standard BoB trailer or custom Wraith "Rob" trailer (uses standard 29er BoB yoke). Some of these overloaded bikes look a bit dangerous!

Dakine donated a builder's pack to us and it is fantastic when you only need a chain saw, but for a group of 4 to 6 people a trailer is a sound way to go. It will make you strong pulling a load around too.

Cheers!


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

radair said:


> I will affirm that a fat bike is an excellent choice for the reasons you mention. I have a Pugsley that has become my work bike and hooks up to a standard BoB trailer or custom Wraith "Rob" trailer (uses standard 29er BoB yoke). Some of these overloaded bikes look a bit dangerous!
> 
> Dakine donated a builder's pack to us and it is fantastic when you only need a chain saw, but for a group of 4 to 6 people a trailer is a sound way to go. It will make you strong pulling a load around too.
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks for the input. Thats a sick looking trailer. Also, how'd you get Dakine to donate a pack to you? Just ask?


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

got to have the right saw for the job.
We get some big trees in Idaho.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I use a standard Krampus set up as a SS. Flat land 'round these parts, so the ss works juuuust fine. The bigger tires allow me to clear the corridor a bit, then ride test lines. The 135 spacing lets me easily tow a trailer. I've strapped tools to the bike itself, but for more than one person working, it isn't feasible. The above strap jobs look a bit....sketchy. If you want a fat bike to use, I'd get the Pugsley. Keeps the 135 spacing so you can use a Bob with getting a custom yoke made. That'll let you go even further with out a trail



> #trailbuilding machine at rest. #surly #krampus #singlespeed
> 
> A photo posted by @martini_ss on Oct 10, 2014 at 5:51am PDT


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Cotharyus said:


> Thanks for the input. Thats a sick looking trailer. Also, how'd you get Dakine to donate a pack to you? Just ask?


The rep lives locally and is a mountain biker. Didn't even need to ask, he just said he had a pack for us. I inquired about a group buy but got no response.

The trailer rides very nice with a 24" x 3" Kujo - it rolls the roots without getting launched like the 16" wheeled BoB trailer.


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## peteuga (Dec 10, 2004)

*Beach Crusier Tool Machine*









Get a beach cruiser from a pawn shop or somewhere then put a rear rack on the bike, the rack pictured is from a kid carrier. Next mount a 2x4 to the rack with a chainsaw blade sleeve and secure with radiator straps. Now you can easily carry a chainsaw with just one bungee strap. If you want to carry two additional tools Home Depot / Lowes sells a "U" shaped thing(notice the orange thing near the rear radiator strap) what will screw into the 2x4 and will hold a hand tool. The only draw back to this is the tools can't be too heavy or the "U" will bend, works fine with a Rogue Hoe, not with a heavy pickax. The bike is geared really low. If you want to be really bad ass you can add a polka-dot water bottle holder.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

radair said:


> custom Wraith "Rob" trailer (uses standard 29er BoB yoke). !


Nice! Now you just need a Grunt to haul it!

:thumbsup:


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Using a Dakine Builder's pack to carry saw & safety gear, and my Ti HT for my bikepacking gear and carrying the extra fuel in the pannier end pockets.

Details on this 2 night bikepacking/trail clearing trip from last late spring:

*CHILCOTIN CHAINSAW GANG*
Chilcotin Chainsaw Gang | The Mountain Bike Life


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Old thread resurrection.

I'm google-fooing for ideas to outfit a trail work bike and this is one of the "newer" threads on the subject so I figured I'd add to it. I just bought a new '17 Karate Monkey Plus bike with a Boost frame and it's working out very well as a mule for my BoB trailer on the trails but for those lighter, faster moving days, I want to be able to get a couple-a-few tools on the bike itself. I've got a rack set-up so far but I'm looking to incorporate a means to get a steel bow rake on it, still. I think I have a plan that will involve the handle oriented of the back of the bike.

Today, I received a pair of new Shimano SH-XM9 SPD equipped hiking boots so I don't have to carry in boots, now. I had to get them and my tools dirty so I got a couple hours out in the rain today in working on some new trail on a small network close to to home. The boots and rack are awesome! More work tomorrow on the backside of our storm front.

Anybody have some new versions or additions to their working bikes?


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Nice. I keep expecting to see a Big Fat Dummy build up running around here soon.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

OMS, I like the tubing bolted to the wrack to give some proper support to the tools, think I'll use that next time I'm heading out to do some trail work, not sure though if I'll pull the old Monkey from commute duty or just use the new Unit. BTW, thanks for the resurrect, a thread worth keeping alive.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

It occurred to me, looking at these bob trailers, that it wouldn't be hard to modify a wheelbarrow to work as a bike trailer. You'd have a trailer to haul tools, a cooler, etc., and then have something to haul dirt up & down the trail at the work site.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

I think this is the appropriate use for an e bike at least, or even a small moto, like some of the 200s suzuki has made over the year. You mention speed not being an issue, but when I have to get 5 miles in, work, and be at the school at 2:30 to pick up the kid, it does become a factor.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^So how much faster would you go on that ebike?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm 56. I just bought this rigid Monkey and I'm running 1x with 11-46T. I'm having no trouble riding this mule and towing my BoB with up to 8 tools including an 8" tamper up some pretty steep and techy sections of trail and 10 miles roundtrip is a non issue. I don't need no steeeeenking eBike! :nono: :lol:

Motos are not an option on our trail networks. Not without some very special allowances that would likely be too time consuming to chase.


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## Bentpushrod (Nov 8, 2015)

Here's my Big Fat Dummy trail machine on the Maah Daah Hey.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Bentpushrod said:


> View attachment 1212831
> Here's my Big Fat Dummy trail machine on the Maah Daah Hey.


That's what I'm talking about!


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Bentpushrod said:


> View attachment 1212831
> Here's my Big Fat Dummy trail machine on the Maah Daah Hey.


Hells yeah! We're bikers so we got legs...


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## Wildfire (Feb 4, 2004)

This is not for purists, but I've been using a Rokon Scout 2-wheel-drive motorbike for hauling tools and fuel on singletrack trails. The motor thing may be an issue for some land managers but many will permit it on a case by case basis if it's for trail maintenance or construction. It's actually pretty low impact: with only a fairly quiet 200cc/7HP 4-stroke engine and 25" x 8" tires run at 4 psi, it's definately not a go-fast machine and is tread-friendly (I use it for "riding in" newly built trails, too). It's geared super low, gets about 50 MPG, has front and rear racks for tools, and can also haul a trailer or drag a groomer for winter fat bike trails. Horses for courses.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Wildfire said:


> This is not for purists, but I've been using a Rokon Scout 2-wheel-drive motorbike for hauling tools and fuel on singletrack trails. The motor thing may be an issue for some land managers but many will permit it on a case by case basis if it's for trail maintenance or construction. It's actually pretty low impact: with only a fairly quiet 200cc/7HP 4-stroke engine and 25" x 8" tires run at 4 psi, it's definately not a go-fast machine and is tread-friendly (I use it for "riding in" newly built trails, too). It's geared super low, gets about 50 MPG, has front and rear racks for tools, and can also haul a trailer or drag a groomer for winter fat bike trails. Horses for courses.


I can get away with stuff like that on some properties. What I can't get away with yet is the price tag on it. After the last job, I'm looking at a used TW 200 with some racks on it to get in and out of the woods a little quicker where I can run something motorized.

Have you seen the tank wheels for the Rokon? Do you think they'd be useful for trail building applications (especially where you've got equipment that needs fuel out on the trail) or is it easier just to pack fuel cans in and out?


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## Wildfire (Feb 4, 2004)

Cotharyus said:


> I can get away with stuff like that on some properties. What I can't get away with yet is the price tag on it. After the last job, I'm looking at a used TW 200 with some racks on it to get in and out of the woods a little quicker where I can run something motorized.
> 
> Have you seen the tank wheels for the Rokon? Do you think they'd be useful for trail building applications (especially where you've got equipment that needs fuel out on the trail) or is it easier just to pack fuel cans in and out?


Well, you have to pay the made-in-the-USA (New Hampshire) premium and almost all parts are made in-house so they are pretty spendy new. The company has been around since the early 60's and the design hasn't changed much since then. I got mine used in newish condition for about the cost of a nice new bicycle but yeah, still a hit on the wallet but seems worth it now. They pop up on Craigslist every now and then. I looked at the Yamaha too but it's not all-wheel-drive and I plan on doing some winter trail grooming.

I've seen the tank wheels but haven't figured out how you're supposed to transfer the fuel into your excavator or whatever without having some kind of pump along. Also they are supposedly tricky in stream crossings because they catch the current while the spoked wheels let some through. They do allow the bike to float on its side across deeper streams but I don't really see that as something that I want to try. I just use a 5 gallon fuel can strapped on the rear rack which will run the miniex for three days.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Wildfire said:


> Well, you have to pay the made-in-the-USA (New Hampshire) premium and almost all parts are made in-house so they are pretty spendy new. The company has been around since the early 60's and the design hasn't changed much since then. I got mine used in newish condition for about the cost of a nice new bicycle but yeah, still a hit on the wallet but seems worth it now. They pop up on Craigslist every now and then. I looked at the Yamaha too but it's not all-wheel-drive and I plan on doing some winter trail grooming.
> 
> I've seen the tank wheels but haven't figured out how you're supposed to transfer the fuel into your excavator or whatever without having some kind of pump along. Also they are supposedly tricky in stream crossings because they catch the current while the spoked wheels let some through. They do allow the bike to float on its side across deeper streams but I don't really see that as something that I want to try. I just use a 5 gallon fuel can strapped on the rear rack which will run the miniex for three days.


No doubt the Rokon is worth every cent if you have a suitable application for it. I'm still not sold on the TW idea, but my "local" rokon dealer appears to not exist anymore, and it'll take some sort of bargain to put me on one. Still, climbing a mountain may work nearly as well on a TW as a rokon, but coming back down the Rokon will be the sure footed horse.

Good tip on the tank wheels and stream crossing. Hadn't thought about that side of it. I did a double take when you mentioned running 3 days on a 5 gallon can of fuel. That's about 1 day on a larger machine. Still, there's something to be said for how tight you can leave a trail with those little machines. Good stuff man!


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## Spindelatron (Aug 15, 2006)

any long term reviews about using a Rokon as a single-track trail maintenance/building machine? any maintenance issues? They seem kind of bomb proof to me judging by how many of the earlier 1970s-80s models are still around. Do you know of any trail associations that use one regularly?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I missed this thread back in the day, but I used this Yuba Mundo as a trail work machine for a while. Eventually, I got the packable Trail Boss tools, a nice pack and just use my regular bike.


















Trail Boss USA | Packable Trail Building Tools & Accessories


Packable trail building tools for the worlds most dedicated trail builders.




trailbossusa.com


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## Danhikeski (Jun 30, 2021)

These do seem like a year round great trail machine, there HQ’s is only 30 miles from my house, and about that far my entire life, 46 years. I owned a 4 wheeler for a few years, snowmobiled and put a little over 12,000 miles on a Yamaha xt250 (way better than the TW, but TW would be better for trail use like this) too, I have never seen a Rokon on the trail, and maybe a handful IRL. They are a hunters dream from what I’ve been told.

woohoo! Post number 100!


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