# UPGRADE a bike that doesn't exist?



## monkey_on_a_rampage (Feb 23, 2008)

well i bought a brand new but old mongoose XR-850 and im wanting to upgrade everything on it cause i like the look of the frame and would like to do more with it but i cannot find anything that says mongoose has ever made an XR-850 all they have is a 250


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Probably has a lot to do with a Mongoose XR 850 being a Walmart labeled Mongoose and not a actual Mongoose Mountain Bike.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

monkey_on_a_rampage said:


> well i bought a brand new but old mongoose XR-850 and im wanting to upgrade everything on it cause i like the look of the frame and would like to do more with it but i cannot find anything that says mongoose has ever made an XR-850 all they have is a 250


Is it a DH/FR bike? If so, upgrade what you want to get it to the performance level you like and fits you style. Who cares if you can't find the model no. anywhere.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Pics?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

is this it?


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## monkey_on_a_rampage (Feb 23, 2008)

Yeah Heres a few pics on my Photo bucket check it out and let me know

https://s961.photobucket.com/home/Chaos987/index


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

highdell, that is a Crossway 450. Very nice commuter bike that is being sold at bike shops. Definitely not a dept. store Mongoose.

To the OP. The XR 850 is a department store branded bike. It will not be on the Mongoose website at all. It's probably similar in looks to this one here. These bikes are designed and made to be easily affordable by the masses. Just like if you want a DVD player, you could go and spend big bucks on one at an audio/video store, or you could just go to your local Walmart and pick up a $45 DVD player. For most people, the $45 will be fine. For others, they want more out of their audio/video equipement.










My advice would be to ride it till it dies and save up for a higher quality mountain bike with better components on it. Upgrades are not smart economically for that bike.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

holy tank-a-moly


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

frdfandc said:


> highdell, that is a Crossway 450. Very nice commuter bike that is being sold at bike shops. Definitely not a dept. store Mongoose.


yeah, It was a listed as a crossway *8*50 in a google search for 'mongoose 850', but no matter.
(http://www.mongoose.com/sgp/eng/mtn/Products/Mountain-Pavement/Details/2679-M9CRO8-Crossway-850 - I was checking all possibilities)
The OP's pic is OBVIOUSLY different


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

monkey_on_a_rampage said:


> Yeah Heres a few pics on my Photo bucket check it out and let me know
> 
> https://s961.photobucket.com/home/Chaos987/index


let me help:


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> My advice would be to ride it till it dies and save up for a higher quality mountain bike with better components on it. Upgrades are not smart economically for that bike.


Yep, disregard my earlier post. Not what I thought it might be  . Ride the crap out of it as is.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

They should label it Shimano sticker equipped.


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## Atari (Aug 25, 2009)

monkey_on_a_rampage said:


> well i bought a brand new but old mongoose XR-850 and im wanting to upgrade everything on it cause i like the look of the frame and would like to do more with it but i cannot find anything that says mongoose has ever made an XR-850 all they have is a 250


http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1150854
.discontinued bike of unk year..sold at one time from walmart


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## manoffew (Aug 21, 2009)

Atari said:


> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1150854
> .discontinued bike of unk year..sold at one time from walmart


Holy tank batman.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

wtf how much does that **** weigh? please tell me u didn't pay $500 for that garbage


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

louisssss said:


> wtf how much does that **** weigh? please tell me u didn't pay $500 for that garbage


geeze louissssssssssssssssss, why don't you learn to say what you mean and not hold back? I think he bought it used. It's his money and buying choice just like it's your choice to communicate like a db or not. But hey, I'm sure he has a thick skin and just feels all warm and fuzzy and will really enjoy coming here to get help with his foray into mtb-ing.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

Malibu412 said:


> geeze louissssssssssssssssss, why don't you learn to say what you mean and not hold back? I think he bought it used. It's his money and buying choice just like it's your choice to communicate like a db or not. But hey, I'm sure he has a thick skin and just feels all warm and fuzzy and will really enjoy coming here to get help with his foray into mtb-ing.


lol, okay!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

just go...


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

I actually had that bike as my last walmart one before I got my first real MTB. It weighs 38-44lbs and is pretty much junk as I was trying to do the same. Save up and get a real MTB as that one isnt even suppoost to be ridden off road if you read all the warnings.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

That frame does not look flexy


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Malibu412 said:


> Ride the crap out of it as is.


Or dont?

I really wouldnt recommend it. 
I'm not sure I'd quite go so far as to refuse to ride with anyone on one (which I do with anyone that refuses to wear a helmet) but I certainly wouldn't recommend taking it offroad. Fullstop.

There's a good reason that walmart 'gooses carry a warning sticker (see below) - its cus they're not "mountain" bikes, they're toy immitations that are designed to look the part not to last.









This is not an exaggeration - those things are dangerous.
It's not so much a matter of riding it to learn and hoping it doesnt fail - more a case of taking a risk riding it and hoping you dont get hurt when it does fail (which it will much sooner than you might think).


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

The suspension lasted me one 3ft to flat drop and was toast. the sad thing is that the closest I got to my last walgoose is my new Rize 4 that was 25 times as expensive but can do about 25 times as much without hurting you,


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

to the OP, don't let some of the comments here shame you into not riding your so called "garbage" bike.....as long as it pedals well, and you enjoy riding it...then you're winning.

some of the comments here presume so much, and really are a disservice to beginner riders who have genuine questions about a sport they're only just starting out in....

if potential new riders reading or posting here (with less than thick skin) took some of the snobbish comments thrown about here to heart....then they'd be intimidated into/ embarassed to be seen on the trails with anything less than a $3,000 ride. 

Ease up on the broad generalizations: are walmart bikes really "Dangerous?" Do they instantly explode when they hit the trail b/c the frames are made of chinese noodles? i think not.....is it the best ride out there for whistler? probably not, but it will work decently for most trail riding if it fits and is maintained properly. Proclaiming its "dangerous" without explanation is thoughtless and unfairly influences those who may be impressionable while first learning the sport. 

Also, how can you call someone's ride "garbage" without ever seeing it, or riding one yourself, etc? would you call some stranger's ride garbage face to face on the trail? does the internet make you so bold to be rude like that? 

again, ease up guys.....there is room on the trails for all levels of skill and gear......comments with an elitist tinge can do more harm than good if thoughtlessly bandied about....


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

mwc1 said:


> to the OP, don't let some of the comments here shame you into not riding your so called "garbage" bike.....as long as it pedals well, and you enjoy riding it...then you're winning.
> 
> blah blah blah


no he'll be losing because when stuff goes wrong such as wheels taco-ing, forks breaking, handlebars snapping he will be in the hospital. i guess if u call racing to get hurt winning, then yea...


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

louisssss said:


> no he'll be losing because when stuff goes wrong such as wheels taco-ing, forks breaking, handlebars snapping he will be in the hospital. i guess if u call racing to get hurt winning, then yea...


As much as I hate to do it , I have to agree with louisssss on this one .


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> As much as I hate to do it , I have to agree with louisssss on this one .


+2, I have seen pictures and videos of similar bikes failing on a trail. I have also ridden a Walmart Next FS bike on a trail on my very first MTB Ride, I managed to not only put both *single wall* wheels out of tru to the point of needing to ride with out a back V-Brake, but my non drive side crank arm fell off. A week after that I was gifted a actual Schwinn Mountain Bike. The Whole thing was steel, rigid and single speed but man did that thing fly down the trail better than the Next.

What I find is funny is they sold that Mongoose for more than some actual Mongoose Brand Bikes. My Girlfriends 2001 Mongoose Rockadile is a Actual Mongoose and only went for just over 300 dollars and would be considered a solid bike even today.


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

louissssss, do you see most beginners hucking bikes like they're a pro downhiller? if they do, then they prolly deserve to get hurt based on the thoughtlessness of using a walmart bike on a pro downhill course.

you presume a lot about "beginners" and their riding habits....beginners generally don't put that much stress to taco a wheel or break a frame. beginner bikes will work for entry level riding (if maintained properly and it fits).....if your skill level demands better equipment, then so be it, there are plenty of bikes that are certainly capable of more punishment....but your comments simply label a bike "garbage" without regards to what the OP intends to use it for......


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

IF theop intends to go on any trails with it. It's garbage becuase I tacoed my gfs mongoose cheap going over a curb. There are logs and rocks on beginner trail.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

mwc1 said:


> louissssss, do you see most beginners hucking bikes like they're a pro downhiller? if they do, then they prolly deserve to get hurt based on the thoughtlessness of using a walmart bike on a pro downhill course.
> 
> you presume a lot about "beginners" and their riding habits....beginners generally don't put that much stress to taco a wheel or break a frame. beginner bikes will work for entry level riding (if maintained properly and it fits).....if your skill level demands better equipment, then so be it, there are plenty of bikes that are certainly capable of more punishment....but your comments simply label a bike "garbage" without regards to what the OP intends to use it for......


You make alot of presumptions yourself . I would venture a guess that beginners on crappy mountain bikes has driven more of them to other pursuits . Even the suggestion that a newb should attempt to ride that POS on a trail is absurd . :nono:


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## WadePatton (May 10, 1999)

mwc1 said:


> to the OP, don't let some of the comments here shame you into not riding your so called "garbage" bike.....as long as it pedals well, and you enjoy riding it...then you're winning.
> 
> some of the comments here presume so much, and really are a disservice to beginner riders who have genuine questions about a sport they're only just starting out in....
> 
> ...


dude, seriously have you seen one of these up close-or tried to work on one? i talked a young serious rider out of upgrading his, after i had to explain why i couldn't work on it and how some things couldn't be fixed.

to be fair, it _had_ sustained many boyish (not atb) miles. (i fixed his brakes, refused to sell him a fork, told him that shifting was pointless--the rusted out ferrous cables weren't worth replacing--to go singlespeeding.)

the you fellow *worked and saved* and he spent about $800 for 100x better bike.

yes_, the crew _has been a bit "rude" and could work on their socialization skills, but i must fully agree that taken off-road,_ that bike_ is likely to fail with consequences.

hope the op gets his money's worth and keeps riding. nothing personal at all, we just want the best for you.

cheers


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## carrot_top (Aug 22, 2007)

I also have to back up louissss on this one as well......i owned a wal-mart Next when i was about 12 or so....i wasnt hucking off of drops or doing anything crazy, in fact i was riding down the sidewalk when the stem somehow came loose from the steer tube....i hit the brakes, but they were too crappy to slow me down in time before i hit that tree....

(this was the first day i had it too)

Now this could have been avoided if all the bolts were properly tightened before i went out to ride, but at 12, thats one of the last things you would think of.....but it still shows that the quality and reliability of these wal-mart bikes (as well as the people who assemble them) are questionable

My previous bike, a Diamondback coil X (which was _just_ above wal-mart quality), also suffered a catastrophic failure in the form of the rear triangle (right near the main pivot) developing a crack....luckily i noticed the the frame flexing more than usual before i went on any other trails and made it any worse

The only reason i thought of it as a "just above wal-mart quality" bike was that it was purchased at a (somewhat questionable) bike shop....but besdies that, the componentry wasnt much different, nor the frame design and material....and despite being assembled by a bike shop, it still failed in a way that could have ended up much worse if i hadent noticed first.....

this further backs up louissss's point that these bikes can and sometimes DO fail in ways that can result in injury.....

to the OP: I wouldnt suggest upgrading your bike...i wouldnt even suggest you take it on the local trails....If your serious about getting into mountain biking, the best thing you can do is save up and purchase a "real" entry level bike......sorry to rain on your parade....


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

mwc1 said:


> to the OP, don't let some of the comments here shame you into not riding your so called "garbage" bike.....as long as it pedals well, and you enjoy riding it...then you're winning.
> 
> some of the comments here presume so much, and really are a disservice to beginner riders who have genuine questions about a sport they're only just starting out in....
> 
> ...


Are Walmart bikes really dangerous?-----For riding off road, yes, very much so.

Do they instantly explode when they hit the trail?-----It's only a matter of time.

There is room on the trails for all levels of skill and gear?-----OK, on paved trails at the neighborhood park. But even there I wouldn't want to lug around a 45 lb bike.

Are we all elitist with $3,000.00 rides?-----Not even close.

Are we rude?-----No, just trying to save someone from being injured.

Are *your* comments a disservice to beginner riders?-----*YES*.


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

i hear you all, but i will ask this: is the issue of wallyworld bike usage on "real" trails a question of the bike failure due to its quality? or one of proper maintenance?

bikes are tools, and proper maintenance is a must for anything mechanical....i hear stories of, say, a slipped stem...but admittedly it appears to be one of failing to check your bolts before taking it out for a spin.....i also hear stories of tacoing wheels...but is it unheard of to check spoke tension before taking it for a serious ride....i hear about pedals stripping in the crank arm.....but did anyone notice that the spindle was loose and pedalling was shakey just prior? my examples, while not specifically directed and anyone in particular, points out that all tools, even prior to usage, require periodic inspection (and maintenance of course) to yield reliable and long lived device.....I understand that the average employee of walmart probably knows nothing of proper assembly, but that already is a well known fact here on the boards, and is not inherent to a fault with the bike itself.....


just to be clear, i don't state that walmart bikes are somehow immune from mechanical failure...what i did state was that dept store bikes, along with proper maintenance, is not a pipe bomb waiting to explode the first time it touches dirt.....

so then the question turns on the bike quality itself....is the unsuitability of wallyworld bike inherent in the bike itself? i mean, it has 2 knobby wheels, multiple gears, handle bars, seat, a 71 degree head angle, 175mm cranks, blah blah......so it rolls, steers, pedals like most other bikes....of course assuming all bolts are tight, bearings lubed, etc.
so what type of unsuitability are we talking about that is inherent to dept store bikes? frame failure? too heavy? ill fit? failure to shift? failure to brake? please enlighten me on how its unsuitable or "dangerous" for trail use....i hear generalizations that is unsafe, gonna break, etc.....but those comments seem predicated on "serious" riding that most beginners aren't engaged in (logs, roots were mentioned)........my comments are based on an assumption that there is a universe of people who ride bikes on all sorts of trails for many different reasons: from elderly folks who want to ride flat fire trails for a day out in the sunshine, all the way to kamikaze riders on crazy runs down Whistler..... i stated that a wallyworld bike would work for beginner riding, but not for crazy stuff......again, not all the folks here are racers, balls out downhillers, etc, and such generalized comments of the unsuitability of certain bikes to your world view and style of riding is shortsighted at best.....

so again, how is a dept store bike unsafe or unsuitable? its not gonna explode the first time you hit the trail, and while its not the finest most efficient ride out there, it will work for trail use of a certain point.....and while some here are way past that point of skill level, its not fair to casually judge a product/dissuade other individuals without regards to their needs solely within your notions of "the way it should be." the reality is that while we all would like nice rides, some of us simply cant afford the latest and greatest rig....if wallyworld is all you can afford, then so be it.....i will say to you: use it, have fun, maintain it and learn some skills, don't be discouraged or embarassed at the name brand stenciled on the frame, but be warned as to its limitations......but i wont go so far as to call your choice "garbage" or blindly state that it will break on you in the assumption that you ride like kurt sorge....i would like to see more people ride rather than staying at home worrying if their newly acquired bike is gonna disintegrate on a trail.....

im sorry that im so longwinded, but this issue rubs me the wrong way. and btw, i do ride a walmart bike.....i maintain my own gear, and know what its (and my own) capabilities are at all times....rant off


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

I actually did some DH on my walgooses but they would be lucky to last me a week before I had to get another, TO the OP just ride it till it breaks becuase by then youll be ready for a better bike


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

mwc1 said:


> im sorry that im so longwinded, but this issue rubs me the wrong way. and btw, i do ride a walmart bike.....i maintain my own gear, and know what its (and my own) capabilities are at all times....rant off


What are your capabilities?

What kind of riding do you do?

Where do you ride?

How much do you ride?


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

well here is my resume sir:
ive been on various forms of 2 wheels (pedal powered that is) since 1976. 
im a 9to5 zombie, so i ride mountain/trails on weekends (try to maintain 15+ miles per session), and started mountain biking in the early 90s.
I started in bmx in the early 80s, and i still ride bmx at skate parks 2-3 times a week. 
i aspire to AM riding, and really enjoy technical riding. I like the challenge of clearing a trail with the most obstacles. I like going up as much as coming down. I ride in Nevada, so the terrain is rocky desert. We have sharp rocks here....i studiously try to avoid falling on them.
I wrench on all of my bikes: road, mountain, bmx....whatever, and have done so since I blew up my first bike due to pigishly assuming that it didn't need any maintenance....my dad wouldn't buy me another one until i could prove i could maintain what i have.

i hope that it satisfies your curiousity as to my "capabilities"


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

mwc1 said:


> well here is my resume sir:
> ive been on various forms of 2 wheels (pedal powered that is) since 1976.
> im a 9to5 zombie, so i ride mountain/trails on weekends (try to maintain 15+ miles per session), and started mountain biking in the early 90s.
> I started in bmx in the early 80s, and i still ride bmx at skate parks 2-3 times a week.
> ...


Sorry, that doesn't fit. You'll have to find someone else to continue this conversation with.


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## PlasticBike (Sep 27, 2008)

mwc1 -

Yes, it will roll and steer, for now. It will NOT roll and steer like "real" MTBs (hubs are garbage and impossible to adjust properly, so is headset, plus the stems are often not "square", meaning that even when pointing in the right direction the front end won't be straight).

Unsuitability: I offer a free check-up to anyone bringing a department store bike into my shop - that does NOT mean I will work on it (if I see a catastrophic failure underway, I'm not going to accept liability by working on their bike), it means that I will doing a quick safety check. I've probably done this a hundred and fifty times, and at least thirty (probably more like fifty) times on brand-new, just bought down the street bikes. Often this happens when parents stop into my shop, suffer some serious sticker shock, and walk. I OFFER to look over their purchase, no charge (and no, this doesn't make money for me because I generally refuse to do "on the books" work on the bikes).

Here are the problems I found ON THE NEW BIKES that could be attributed to poor assembly:

Underinflated tires (<10 psi)
Undertightened fasteners (not even finger-tight in many cases)
Crooked stems
Forks backwards
Front wheel backwards (on a bike with "disc" brakes)
Crank arm loose enough to wiggle off by hand
Brake noodles unhooked
Controls not oriented correctly
Pedals loose
Pedals forced into the wrong side of the crankarm (found this on an adult's brand new bike when he came in to upgrade to clipless pedals [couldn't talk him out of it])
Missing axle nuts
Broken control cables
BADLY out-of-true wheels
BADLY out of adjustment hubs, BB, headset
Badly out of adjustment shifting
Evidence that the front dropouts had been bent and then "repaired" with pliers
Missing ferrules on cable housing
Missing crimps on cables

Fine. Poor assembly. Dept. store employees suck at building bikes. Let's look at what sorts of problems are inherent in the bikes themselves:

Problems I found on BRAND NEW BIKES that were symptomatic of dangerous product:

Cracking developing at major welds (top-to-head tubes, etc.)
Missing hardware at pivot point
Severely bent crankarms
Severely misaligned forks
Severely misalinged rear dropouts
Cracked rear triangle on several full-squish bikes
Broken V-Brakes
Broken control levers (shifters and brakes)
Rusted chain (on a bike that still had the tags on it?!?!)
7-spd shifter on 8-spd bike
Soft, low-quality fasteners (which had been stripped during assembly)
Incorrect cables
Mismatched cable / housing combinations
Many "adult" bikes have 1-piece cranks w/kid-size pedals (1/2" vs. 9/16)
Missing rivet(s) (no, not chainring bolts - rivets) from chainring/crank assembly
Single-wall rims coming apart at seam.
Nipples pulling through rims
Nipples cracking

Now, to be fair, these problems tended to cluster up - one bike may've made it through QC while the guy was at lunch. But even if that is the case, isn't it a little worrisome that the factory is producing bikes like that at all? And even if your bike has one of the more severe problems, CAN you still ride it? Sure. Depending on how you ride, how often, and how much you weigh, you might even get enough out of it to figure out whether or not the sport is for you.

The bikes that don't show any serious problems right off the bat - can you ride those? Sure. If that's what you can budget for a bike, that's what you can budget for a bike. Like you say, better to be riding SOMETHING than nothing. But at the same time, it's important to be aware of the quality of your ride. Many riders begin riding groomed gravel or paved bikeways, and a "good" department store bike can be fine for that (but will need nearly continuous maintenance to keep it from squealing like an abused cat). However, most riders build skills, build confidence, and build speed. Even on a paved trail, this becomes dangerous. The brakes on many of these bikes do not have sufficient stopping power to keep a rider safe at aggressive speeds (anything over 15mph, let's say) - no matter WHAT terrain you're on.

Then, of course, people don't want to spend their lives riding on the paved trail. They want to ride that dirt trail next to it, or that dirt trail that curves off into the woulds with the flowy bumps and the banked corners, or that trail that branches off alongside the stream over roots and rocks, or that trail there that flows down the gully over drops and ladders and gaps.

When does it become unsafe to ride that department store bike? I don't know...it depends on the bike and on the rider. If you take care of your own bike, understand how it works (most importantly, if you understand how to spot metal fatigue before the crack appears), check it over regularly, and ride conservatively, you may get some substantial miles out of your investment. Or not. You may find that you love the sport of cycling - you get outside, you get moving, you take in the gorgeous scenery, you make friends, etc. Or you just hate it because you can't get up that hill that all your friends can, or you have to unhook your brake halfway through every ride because your rim is rubbing. It really could go either way.

How much of a safety concern is your average department store bike? Well, if you're one of the people that came into my shop with a cracked frame right out the door (or even a year or two on), you know that it's a pretty big concern. A cracked frame can result in SERIOUS injury, even if you are just coasting on over to the ice cream store (that just happens to be my favorite off-road trail). Missing pieces from your suspension linkage means that at any moment, that little bump that you feel as you roll over the 2" transition from driveway to bike lane could toss you into traffic. Cracked brakes (not levers, the brakes themselves) can leave you coasting into a busy intersection. Having a pedal fall off can sometimes be funny, unless it results in slicing your leg open on your chainring.

And let's say that your bike doesn't have any of these obvious problems when you first pick it up - if you are not carefully checking your bike over every ride, if could easily develop them over time. And yes, even IF you never leave the ground, never stand up to pedal, and never need to grab a handful of brakes. If, God forbid, you happen to try mountain biking on your bike (as the dual-suspension design seems to imply you will), you never know what a 9 inch drop (and yes, I would say that most beginners will be capable of riding a 9" drop, whether from flat to flat or in the form of a jump) is going to do to your frame or suspension.

To be honest, I am more than happy to do a little under-the-table work for people bringing in bikes for their kids (or themselves) to get out and ride on - if I can make their rides safer by tightening a few bolts and setting up the bike correctly, I feel like I did a good thing. But I would never ever compare the reliability, enjoyment, performance, or (most importantly) _*SAFETY *_of a department store bike to an entry-level ride from an established brand. Furthermore, I would encourage them to only ride as far from the parking lot as they can comfortably walk back, and to always have a riding partner.

Strangely enough, I actually think that department store bikes often work out OK for kids learning to ride - kids don't weigh much, and so their bikes are subjected to MUCH less stress than an adults bike. They are also not likely to be as discerning as adults, ignoring clicks and squeals, poor shifting, slow braking, etc. They will also probably not be riding as far (I'm talking younger kids here, 8-10) as an adult, which further reduces the wear on the bike.

I heartily believe that putting an adult on a department store bike is like putting a 165 pound man in a PowerWheels - yes, it will sort of hold him (for a moment, at least), but it is CLEARLY not meant to put up with his weight, and definitely won't be very capable of getting him around town.

And no, I won't ride with adults on department store bikes. I don't want to be stuck walking out with someone who broke a crankarm just pedaling along, or waiting for an airlift of someone who broke their handlebar going off a 1' jump.

Finally, in case you were wondering, I don't think I've ever made money off of my free safety checks (directly or indirectly). usually I end up tightening a few fasteners, pumping up some tires, straightening a stem, and then I tell the rider to be careful. If the rider asks about upgrades or repair services, I tell them that every time they think about spending money on the dept. store bike, they should instead put that money in a jar marked "bicycle fund". Since these folks are usually not so well off financially, I know they're never going to come to my shop (or most any other LBS) for a new bike, but if they put those pennies in the jar, they'll be on their way to picking up a 2-3 year old Hard Rock or Avalanche 3.0 off of Craig's list, often times for only a little more than they spent on the dept. store bike.


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## Sanoske312 (Aug 4, 2008)

louisssss said:


> no he'll be losing because when stuff goes wrong such as wheels taco-ing, forks breaking, handlebars snapping he will be in the hospital. i guess if u call racing to get hurt winning, then yea...


OK first off louis I've sat back long enough and watched you give some serious bad advice. I personally wouldn't buy the bike if i had a choice, but he already bought it and hes still a beginner from what I've read so far. I grew up around bike shops and have seen plenty of "walgoose" bikes that have held up to trail riding.

My advice to the OP is pretty much the same as mwc1. As long as you don't plan on doing jumps with the bike it should hold up fine as a light trail bike/commuter. I ride with a group of completely diverse riders who own some very expensive bikes but there is 1 teenager who rides with us who rides a walgoose that he thrashes and the bike keeps going strong. so all this elitist **** isn't necessary. My best advice to you is ride it till you break it and just enjoy riding cause that's what its all about. And if you decide to get another bike just look around look around there is a lot of helpful information on this site (there is also a few dumb-asses).


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Sorry, that doesn't fit. You'll have to find someone else to continue this conversation with.


im sorry, what about my answer makes you say this? do you find my resume of "capabilities" as falsehoods? you opened this line of questioning sir, then desire to leave the "conversation." what gives?

to plastic bike, i respect your opinion. It is thoughtful and based on experience. though my personal experience differs from yours (that is w/ my wallyworld schwinn s30), and i shall stand by my initial opinions that a bike is like any other mechanical device out there: there is a sliding scale in the range of use, durability, feasibility, and all of this is affected by the owner's intentions with regards to it.....
i never said that a dept store bike is liked sliced bread....only that its capable of off road usage if tempered with intelligent intentions from the purchaser/owner: maintain it, know its limitations, know your limitations, be intelligent when making the decision on which model, (ie look out for cracks in the welds on a new bike, or other such glaring defects in the bike) ..... i think in this we agree.....
what i rail against is thoughtless knee jerk comments about bike quality that completely negate human intelligence from the equation of the bike/rider interface.


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## PlasticBike (Sep 27, 2008)

mwc1 said:


> to plastic bike, i respect your opinion. It is thoughtful and based on experience. though my personal experience differs from yours (that is w/ my wallyworld schwinn s30), and i shall stand by my initial opinions that a bike is like any other mechanical device out there: there is a sliding scale in the range of use, durability, feasibility, and all of this is affected by the owner's intentions with regards to it.....
> i never said that a dept store bike is liked sliced bread....only that its capable of off road usage if tempered with intelligent intentions from the purchaser/owner: maintain it, know its limitations, know your limitations, be intelligent when making the decision on which model, (ie look out for cracks in the welds on a new bike, or other such glaring defects in the bike) ..... i think in this we agree.....
> what i rail against is thoughtless knee jerk comments about bike quality that completely negate human intelligence from the equation of the bike/rider interface.


True story. As the saying goes, "your mileage may vary" - in fact, the most embarrassing ride of my life happened a couple years ago in Tahoe. I wasn't used to the altitude, and I was riding a new trail (down from Marlett to Spooner). I got SHREDDED by some overweight and VERY drunk locals (I found out when I met them at the bottom - nice guys) riding BORROWED 24" dept. store bikes. Very humbling. But, all the same, I would say that this is an exception rather than a rule. And, once again, let's do all remember that BICYCLING is what's important here.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Look at the one on the right compared to the one on the left. They're the same thing , right?

Depends on who you ask. Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, they would all tell you no, there is nothing at all similar between the two except maybe the shape. One is a real guitar, and one is a toy that looks like a real guitar.

Bikes are no different. Except no one has ever lost teeth by playing a toy guitar.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Man, where did I put that beating a dead horse smiley...? I think we get "it" about toy imitations looking like the real deal.

Now, just a thought: save your wit and wisdom for some other poor sap who dares to come in here with a walgoose or tarforge and let this one die.

I will sleep better tonight knowing the "save people from themselves" force is strong here.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

...........


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

Sanoske312 said:


> OK first off louis I've sat back long enough and watched you give some serious bad advice. I personally wouldn't buy the bike if i had a choice, but he already bought it and hes still a beginner from what I've read so far. I grew up around bike shops and have seen plenty of "walgoose" bikes that have held up to trail riding.
> 
> My advice to the OP is pretty much the same as mwc1. As long as you don't plan on doing jumps with the bike it should hold up fine as a light trail bike/commuter. I ride with a group of completely diverse riders who own some very expensive bikes but there is 1 teenager who rides with us who rides a walgoose that he thrashes and the bike keeps going strong. so all this elitist **** isn't necessary. My best advice to you is ride it till you break it and just enjoy riding cause that's what its all about. And if you decide to get another bike just look around look around there is a lot of helpful information on this site (there is also a few dumb-asses).


hey boy, u sure my advice isn't good? read the stickers that come on those piece of **** mongooses. NOT FOR OFF ROAD USE. pls don't cry now


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## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

i rode my walgoose in the trails around here for 2 years and its still up and running, so not all of walgoose break. and that walgoose also ways 40 pounds.


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

louisssss said:


> hey boy, u sure my advice isn't good? read the stickers that come on those piece of **** mongooses. NOT FOR OFF ROAD USE. pls don't cry now


chill out louissss......at the very least in deference to the OP
but hey, if the OP's bike didn't come with that "sticker" (the pic seems to bear that out) , then his bike DOESN'T suck by your logic!


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

fine by me! let him ride it

PICS OF NEW FACE AFTER RIDE so i can laugh!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

louisssss said:


> fine by me! let him ride it
> 
> PICS OF NEW FACE AFTER RIDE so i can laugh!


you wanna laugh at someone's broken face? (implied)
what a dick


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## carrot_top (Aug 22, 2007)

mwc1 said:


> i hear you all, but i will ask this: is the issue of wallyworld bike usage on "real" trails a question of the bike failure due to its quality? or one of proper maintenance?
> 
> bikes are tools, and proper maintenance is a must for anything mechanical....i hear stories of, say, a slipped stem...but admittedly it appears to be one of failing to check your bolts before taking it out for a spin.....i also hear stories of tacoing wheels...but is it unheard of to check spoke tension before taking it for a serious ride....i hear about pedals stripping in the crank arm.....but did anyone notice that the spindle was loose and pedalling was shakey just prior? my examples, while not specifically directed and anyone in particular, points out that all tools, even prior to usage, require periodic inspection (and maintenance of course) to yield reliable and long lived device.....I understand that the average employee of walmart probably knows nothing of proper assembly, but that already is a well known fact here on the boards, and is not inherent to a fault with the bike itself.....
> 
> ...


Theres a reason why wal-mart bikes are so cheap....its because their made with low quality material (without too much in the line of quality standards), and assembled by people with little training...

i would say that my rear swingarm breaking is a good example......and it was a failure that could not have been avoided with proper maintenance.....and i only rode on beginner and intermediate trails (very little elevation change, barely any rocks or roots, bypasses for every somewhat difficult obstacle) at the time.

you also need to take into account that people progress; they get better at riding the little fireroads and beginner trails and want to start moving on to the harder stuff......most wal-mart bikes (even if properly maintained) were already pretty stressed from the easy trails, anything more only makes the chance of something breaking even greater.

and then theres the people who buy wal-mart bikes.....a majority of whom are usually young and have very limited knowledge in the way of bike maintenance. So the chances of them actually going through an overview of their bike, checking all the bolts for tightness, inspecting and greasing the bearings, and even small things like cleaning and lubing the chain are pretty small.

As much as im making it seem, im not 100% against wal-mart bikes....without them, many of us would have never been introduced to the sport....but when you ask mtbr's who did start off with a wal-mart bike why they no longer ride one now, many will probably say something along the lines of "it broke" or that "it wouldnt handle the kind of riding i do".....

.....now what im trying to do is to spare the OP from spending time and money on upgrading a bike that isnt worth it. Rather, i would suggest that he keep his bike the way it is now, continuing to use it at his own risk, and save up to buy a proper mountain bike....one that doesent have a sticker on it that says its "not intended for off-road use", one that was designed and built to be used on the trails.....


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

highdelll said:


> you wanna laugh at someone's broken face? (implied)
> what a dick


yep its sometimes funny, esp when they deserve it


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

louisssss said:


> fine by me! let him ride it
> 
> PICS OF NEW FACE AFTER RIDE so i can laugh!


:nono:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

louisssss said:


> yep its sometimes funny, esp when they deserve it


Louissssssssssssssssssssss , please apologize to the O.P. That comment is completely unwarranted .


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

harry2110 said:


> I actually did some DH on my walgooses but they would be lucky to last me a week before I had to get another, TO the OP just ride it till it breaks becuase by then youll be ready for a better bike


IF it doesnt break you (which it very well might do).

What if the turd of a shock explodes (and its not even unlikely enough to be a stupid example)?
What if the turd of a frame snaps?
What if either wheel tacos under fairly normal use?

ALL of these examples are neither particularly uncommon/unlikely with a walgoose on even mild trails. On top of that, they're touch-and-go for some really serious injuries.
NONE of them is anything but very unlikely with a $3-500 hardtail from your lbs or even (shudder to be suggesting this given the owner...) a similarly priced BD bike.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> ...........


I prefer this one:


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

MiniTrail said:


> you are an ass hole louisssss
> if there was ever any doubt before this erases it
> 
> karma baby


He didnt make the point particularly well, but in a sense I agree with him.

I dont want the OP to get hurt (the whole reason that I'm trying to prevent him from riding something dangerous), but if he's really going to do it, he kinda deserves whatever is coming.

OK I hope (even if he rides it) that he doesnt get hurt when it fails, but I'm not hopeful.
Sometimes an "I told you so" can be funny, even if its painful for the victim (for example, riding with a friend who insisted on running superskinny tires with superhard compounds on wet woodwork and inevitably went down hard and cut his face - we laughed together about it after)


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

mwc1 said:


> some of the comments here presume so much, and really are a disservice to beginner riders who have genuine questions about a sport they're only just starting out in....


And some of the comments here (eg: yours) are highly irresponsible.

Trying to tell anyone that riding a dangerously-badly made bike is a good idea is irresponsible.
Telling them that its not fail-prone is a lie.
To label any genuine concern as "elitism" is a combination of the two.

Sometimes the truth hurts - but its still free and should still be handed out.
*That thing is dangerous. Do not ride it offroad.*

Is it clear enough?


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

EnglishT said:


> And some of the comments here (eg: yours) are highly irresponsible.
> 
> Trying to tell anyone that riding a dangerously-badly made bike is a good idea is irresponsible.
> Telling them that its not fail-prone is a lie.
> ...


e-t, you should actually read my posts in its entirety....i think you jump to conclusions without really reading what i have written....

frankly speaking i find your comments (both to me and the OP) to be supremely condescending, no matter how much you proclaim it to be "genuine concern"........your intolerance is showing my friend.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

mwc1 said:


> e-t, you should actually read my posts in its entirety....i think you jump to conclusions without really reading what i have written....
> 
> frankly speaking i find your comments (both to me and the OP) to be supremely condescending, no matter how much you proclaim it to be "genuine concern"........your intolerance is showing my friend.


Ok...
So having read all of your posts (which I have), finding nothing but assertion and anecdote, it seems pretty easy to dismiss all of it as hot air.

For several reasons..
For starters, beginner riders are not really going to look for cracks and they're not going to know how it should be put together (because the chances are, it wasn't really right when they got it).

For a rider who knows how to handle a wrench (and knows how it should be together) it can be perhaps made to live a bit longer, but unexpected frame/shock/wheel failures would still be far from a surprise.

Compared to a fairly cheap (3-500) hardtail:
Performance is considerably worse - partly because suspension performance is rubbish and partly because they're seriously heavy (not solid, that would require proper design - throwing more metal at a frame doesnt make it more dependable).
Reliability is considerably worse - not only is the frame very badly built (and likely to fail) but the parts thrown on them are of poor quality and poorly assembled. 
Fun is less - mostly because of the significant extra weight and the knowledge (if you've talked to anyone who has a clue what they're talking about) that the bike cannot handle proper riding and should be treated more gently than a bike should need to be.
Value is less (for the reasons above).

Etc...

An experienced rider (such as yourself, if your claimed experience is true) generally knows the advantages of a quality bike that is actually designed to go offroad (not neccessarily talking "elitist" 3k+ bikes either - even a quality 500buck hardtail is atleast designed to go offroad). 
With the added maintainance required to polish the turd (since it needs far more attention than a proper bike would - yes, I did say proper, as in properly designed and built up with proper parts designed to be used offroad), effectively that kind of crappy bike is only really feasible for someone with knowledge of working on bikes, which only really comes with experience. Ignoring, ofcourse, for a minute the fact that no matter how well you keep it running, its still gonna fail on you long before a proper bike would.

ERGO: there is no real rider that you could sensibly recommend it to - a beginner wont know how to keep it running (even IF they're incredibly lucky/smart and move onto a better designed bike BEFORE it catastrophically fails) and an experienced rider is going to know that they're better off getting something that can cope with being used offroad.

My "intolerance" (as you call it) is for stupidity, irresponsible advice and suicidal f**kwittedness.
In all respects, you have fully earned it in this thread (nothing personal).
If you really must give bad advice (like this), you really should learn not to be offended and sarcastic when you're called out on it, time and time again (as you have been here).


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

monkey_on_a_rampage said:


> well i bought a brand new but old mongoose XR-850 and im wanting to upgrade everything on it cause i like the look of the frame and would like to do more with it but i cannot find anything that says mongoose has ever made an XR-850 all they have is a 250


All the pissing back and forth about whether the OP should buy this bike is pretty pointless seeing as he already owns it. Equally as retarded is the assumption that since one wally-world bike folded like a cardboard cutout then this one will to. I'm not in any way recommended wally-bikes, but they are not all the same.

To the OP I would say this: Have the bike checked out by someone who knows what they are doing. If they give it the OK, go ahead and ride it, just be smart about not expecting it to do more than XC riding. Don't go hucking and jumping this thing.

DO NOT waist money upgrading this thing. Despite what you may think of the look of this frame, it is not worth of dropping more money into. You would be MUCH better off just buying a better complete bike with better components than upgrading everything on this. Buying a cheap bike and upgrading everything is the most expensive way you can get a nice bike. And in your case it would not even be that great a bike because the frame is basically a turd. Not saying you can't enjoy the turd for now, but once you reach the point where you can appreciate any upgrades, you will also appreciate a better frame.

So, enjoy the bike for now, and save your upgrade dollars for another bike.


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## mwc1 (Sep 21, 2009)

EnglishT said:


> Ok...
> So having read all of your posts (which I have), finding nothing but assertion and anecdote, it seems pretty easy to dismiss all of it as hot air.
> 
> For several reasons..
> ...


e-t, you know very little about me, but yet feel confident enough to question my veracity so as to conveniently pidgeon hole me into the category of "suicidal f**kwittedness." its a surprise that i'm still alive despite all my shortcomings that you have pointed out. well i guess there is still hope for the stupid i guess.......

your arguments only present, yet again, your intolerance and condecending mindset. you glibly assume that every mart-bike is waiting to explode (your proof being even less than anecdotal), and that beginners are too stupid to know the first thing about shopping or maintenance (that is if you weren't there to champion their safety), and therefore your campaign of "education" is to essentially ban such "dangerous" devices from those would otherwise kill themselves on it. You go way beyond "trying to save people from themselves," right into the realm of fear mongering and demogoguery.....i was wrong, elitism is the least of your worries.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

mwc1 said:


> blah blah
> 
> blah
> you glibly assume that every mart-bike is waiting to explode (your proof being even less than anecdotal),
> blah blah more crap


what are you saying??

probably not every cheap mongoose will explode, but why even take the chance? admit that they have a higher than than say... a hardrock for $400. Why even risk hurting your nuts or your face?


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## Drakken_11 (Dec 21, 2009)

*Not as bad as it seems*

I rode a Mongoose XR-500 from 2000 until this past Aug. It held up well. Rattled a little more than I would have liked. The thing that got mine was a stick getting hung and ripped off my Rear Hanger. It wasn't replaceable. Stupid on their behalf.
From the pic it looks like it has ProMax disc calipers. Those things are noisy, but they work. If you upgrade the shocks (Mozo ?) you will need an adapter for the brake caliper to fit onto it. You should be able to get one at a local bike shop. You can find a Rock Shox Dart2 online for $79. But your gonna hear alot of smack on here about it.
You might also want to upgrade the Rear Shock. Looks like a DNM shock. They can be a little stiff. And there are better options out there.
I would also do something about the Crankset. Might have a Shimano UN-52 Bottom Bracket. Mine is still as smooth as ever.
You can lighten your load a little by buying lighter parts. I bought a Titec Hellbent gold seatpost in 7075 alluminum from Cambria for about $20. Its for a rebuild I'm doing. It's a little lighter than the one from my old XR-500. 
That is a Wally Bike! Coming from someone who knows. Iv'e never seen one that looks like that though. Hey, it will get you out there. Isn't that what matters most?? If you don't plan on racing with it or trying some crazyAzz Drop offs, you'll be fine. Most guys on here are Gear-Snobs. Don't worry about it. Not everyone can afford the Ferrari of the bike world. 
Oh yeah, Take off those [email protected] reflectors. (if you haven't already)


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

^nothing wrong with a Dart 2, but the bike is not worth upgrading.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Drakken_11 said:


> I rode a Mongoose XR-500 from 2000 until this past Aug. It held up well. Rattled a little more than I would have liked. The thing that got mine was a stick getting hung and ripped off my Rear Hanger. It wasn't replaceable. Stupid on their behalf.
> From the pic it looks like it has ProMax disc calipers. Those things are noisy, but they work. If you upgrade the shocks (Mozo ?) you will need an adapter for the brake caliper to fit onto it. You should be able to get one at a local bike shop. You can find a Rock Shox Dart2 online for $79. But your gonna hear alot of smack on here about it.
> You might also want to upgrade the Rear Shock. Looks like a DNM shock. They can be a little stiff. And there are better options out there.
> I would also do something about the Crankset. Might have a Shimano UN-52 Bottom Bracket. Mine is still as smooth as ever.
> ...


I don't think the OP is around anymore--probably out riding or moddin' his wallygoose and having fun.


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