# Maybe I'm just an uptight prude.......



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

......I dunno. But there's only so much non-bike-related soft porn I can tolerate on my local bike website. The webmaster, being a guy and all, doesn't seem to mind when other guys post clips and links to cleavage, ass, etc. Even in Off Topic, it gets to be too much IMHO.

Don't get me wrong (and I'm also annoyed by the fact that I feel compelled to post a disclaimer like this): In my daily life, I could care less. Men love ta-tas and hoo-hahs, such is life. Sex is faaan-tabulous and everybody should get it often. I've always been a proponent of more hot hunks in the media. There's never been enough eye-candy for the women.

But my job as a moderator involves......well, keeping things in moderation. If I feel that guys are using Off Topic as a forum to trade t&a photos and links, I'm probably not the only woman who feels that way. Women (mostly those new to the sport) feel alienated as it is, and they don't need to see topics akin to "Hey! Check out these bazongas!!" or whatever when they visit the site looking for info. 

I might not be so sensitive to this if things haven't already gotten out of hand before. The guys have posted hardcore porn links in the past. They post the softcore stuff routinely, and for some reason tonight I've found my breaking point. Tired of being ignored, I guess.

Some of the female "regulars" don't seem to object, but they're not the ones I'm concerned about. I don't notice the same amount of t&a around here, and it's what makes me comfortable.

So gals, what's your opinion? Should I simply check myself into the nearest convent or what??


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

Honestly, I can't say I've noticed it much. I tend to avoid the off-topic forum because invariably I'm irritated by what I read there... well voiced disagreements have their place, but the flaming just bugs me. From what I've noticed, most of what is posted on the off topic forum seems to be people sniping at each other about US politics. While I have a passing interest in what's going on, I'd rather read about politics on a news site where I can get the rest of the world's viewpoint (being a Brit in the US, I usually visit the BBC for that).

I've got to say though, I did notice one of the banner ads slapped across the top of this site was advertising something to do with erection difficulty. I get enough of that spam junk in my email (hello? why would they send that to a woman?). I do think that the advertising content of this site should be related to bikes and nothing else... I mean really, what has a medical supply site got to do with MTB? Well maybe if you crash and need surgery, but that's a bit of a tentative link.

So... while I haven't really noticed a lot of t&a shots being posted, I do look at this site at work, and it's not really work safe to have that kind of thing plastered all over. Maybe there should be a porn forum to go along with the 'Pete' forum that I never look at  

- Jen.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*{{{sigh}}}*

Maybe it has something to do with getting up @ 5:30am, having a bad day and still being awake @ midnight. I'll have to get some sleep and see if I'm still furious in the morning.......


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> So gals, what's your opinion? Should I simply check myself into the nearest convent or what??


I d think not wanting to see soft porn is OK. It gets so boring when they call you a prude or a femininist, when you complain about stuff that objectifies women. 
Are you talking about here (mtbr)? I saw that banner ad post in passion... and yeah I think it's juvenile to say the least... I think women are out numbered, and any woman that complained about soft porn would flamed from here to kingdom come. I can think of another mountain biking board that has a whole sub-section forum devoted to it, and I guess they just expect you to stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat.

I moderate at a completely different site, outdoors but not biking. What I really appreciate there is that all of us moderators are on the same page, and if there is a question about something, we discuss it in private and come up with an action plan that is agreeable to ALL of us. Unified action, if you will. We do run a fairly tight/clean ship... the level of flaming and ranting tolerated is very low, as is OT banter and polictics etc. Our regulars, 1000+ are very appreciative of how we keep things flame free, comfortable and welcoming for everyone.

I''m thinking that if you have volunteered to moderate at a certain site, you have a right to be part of the process of determining what the "flavor" of said site is. I for one think that there's nothing wrong with having a certain policy, as long as every one agrees about it, and enforces it. I'd support you. ;-) I mean, jeez, if the guys really want to share T&A shots, they can email them back and forth, they do anyway.

and no I"m not a pruce either.

formica


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## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

No, you're not alone. It gets real old, real fast and I'd bet that there are a lot more guys out there who think the same thing. Some days it bothers me more than others and I just pass over it but it can't always be avoided when its in the title.


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

formica said:


> I d think not wanting to see soft porn is OK. It gets so boring when they call you a prude or a femininist, when you complain about stuff that objectifies women.
> Are you talking about here (mtbr)? I saw that banner ad post in passion... and yeah I think it's juvenile to say the least... I think women are out numbered, and any woman that complained about soft porn would flamed from here to kingdom come. I can think of another mountain biking board that has a whole sub-section forum devoted to it, and I guess they just expect you to stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat.
> 
> I moderate at a completely different site, outdoors but not biking. What I really appreciate there is that all of us moderators are on the same page, and if there is a question about something, we discuss it in private and come up with an action plan that is agreeable to ALL of us. Unified action, if you will. We do run a fairly tight/clean ship... the level of flaming and ranting tolerated is very low, as is OT banter and polictics etc. Our regulars, 1000+ are very appreciative of how we keep things flame free, comfortable and welcoming for everyone.
> ...


I work with mostly men, I work out at a gym with mostly men and I bike, which is a sport populated mostly by men. I hear all kinds of stuff that is probably tame compared to what gets said in the locker room, but I'm pretty used to it, and don't consider myself prudish. That said, I'd really rather not to see or read stuff that portrays women as sex objects, myself, though I know it'll probably always exist, like the Marzocchi girls. I agree with Formica that if, as moderator, you decide a mtbike forum is not the place for that type of discussion, it's not inappropriate to ask them to take those conversations elsewhere. Or give 'em a Men's Locker Room page and post a warning on the door. ;^P Women or more reserved folks would know better than to enter the T&A Zone.

It's tough to stand up for your ideals, especially when you're seriously out numbered, which is, I think, the situation Christine is in. Good luck, Grrrl!

Kathy :^)


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## MightySchmoePong (Jan 12, 2004)

*I think there's a difference between "Off Topic" and "Porn"*

I would assume that "Off-topic" means "Non-bike related", not a free for all where people can post absolutely anything they want. However, I think it's the owner of the boards perogative to determine what he views as appropriate. If the owner thinks that porn is OK, then perhaps that's not the best place for you to be a moderator.

Dave


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

To me it's kind of like sensorship. I don't want to give up my rights and trust others to tell me what I can and cannot watch, read, etc. I control the remote and I can change the channel. On the internet I can pick and choose the threads and topics I am intereted in and ignore the crap on my on.

With that being said, some forums should be highly moderated. The forum is usually there for specific information and idea sharing. Paid for and maintained by those with a specific agenda. And the majority of the participants agree to the level of moderation (like on this forum) In these cases I feel it is completely appropriate to moderate what is posted. That's one of the reasons I like this forum so much.

But I do sort of understand the flip side. Some folks really enjoy bating and arguing online with others. Some really get into the name calling, bashing, and never give in banter. Sometimes it's like whoever posts last wins. I get really tired of that crap too but usually I self police and just avoid those posters threads.

Back to the porn. Remember several months ago when someone posted the link back to the Passion site about a thread "How to get 30,000 views" ? It was a topless girl washing a bike. I could not help but think of the local bike forum porn thread that is nearly 150,000 views. I never look at it, probable never will. But on the flip side, this same bike forum has let a girl porn thread exist and it is actually currently higher in the active thread list. You have to get past the first page where the guys tried to "help" by posting but then it gets better. for those interested here's the LINK


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

let's get back to this:


> But my job as a moderator involves......well, keeping things in moderation. If I feel that guys are using Off Topic as a forum to trade t&a photos and links, I'm probably not the only woman who feels that way. Women (mostly those new to the sport) feel alienated as it is, and they don't need to see topics akin to "Hey! Check out these bazongas!!" or whatever when they visit the site looking for info.


Can you have a discussion with your other moderators and come to an agreement about what is acceptable? Some of your concerns are really valid about alienating visitors to your site. That is a loss of traffic, membership, local connection, potential riders, trail workers business etc.when people visit your *local bike website.* and maybe don't like what they see. If it's a club, what is allowed on the club site speaks for the club... is what is on the website appropriate?

I went to sleep thinking about this last night, again from the perspective of a moderator (someplace else). When certain behaviors are encouraged, discouraged, allowed or disallowed, you will automatically pretedetemine who is going to visit and participate, and who won't.

The whole soft porn thing bothers me because I consider sexuality to be something somewhat sacred and special, not something to be flashed around in a casual way. Don't even get me going on the oversexualization of our culture and young people in particular....

The interesting thing about the internet is that there is so much to choose from... don't like one board? There's sure to be another one that is more to your taste. That's how I ended up here. ;-) But when a board is a local portal, as compared just a place to get together, I think there are a lot more things to consider.

just my two cents as usual.

formica


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

I regularly post on another forum, and have on more than one occasion felt the need top tell other guys not to post certain stuff. These forums are for everybody. It's not a boy's club, and it's not a men's locker room, and I don't need or want to see that kind of stuff on a bike site. It's the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to be friends with a lot of guys. I'm all for T & A, but if I want to see it, I know where to find it. I don't need it in my face, and I don't need it scaring off any women that might potentially want to contribute to the forum.

My two cents as a guy.

Edit: Oh, in case you were wondering, that's not actually me in the avatar.


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## poacher (Jul 1, 2003)

*I guess I'm an uptight prude too*

I agree with what you gals have said. I ride with guys and have guy roommates ect.. and they are... well they are just guys. I am usually not bothered, but I got flamed the other day when I read Francois's post over in passion... (don't get me wrong, I think Francois is great). Of course I did not object because the regulars to the forum would have roasted me. I guess I should be used to the way guys are, but I hit a point sometimes were I just get disgusted. Thanks, I just needed to vent, since I could not the other day


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

So, if indead you did get roasted, toasted, and fried, are there no guys who hang out over there that would come to your rescue and stand up for you. If not, that's pretty sad. I'm a landscaper, and post on a lawn service forum where a lot of the guys are, to put it mildly, ********. Even those guys know how to control themselves. Sure I, and a few others, have to take the risk of speaking out when certain fools start degrading women or minorities on a forum that's related to our profession, but it pays off when we do. If nobody is gonna say anything to those guys for fear of getting flamed, then it's not gonna change. I wish I had time to keep up with all that goes down on these forums you talk about. I have no problem getting flamed. You shouldn't either.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*thanks, "guys"!*

Yesterday I was pooped and in a bad mood, when I saw one of the guys at my local site (not MTBR) post a link to something on beer.com. He tried to tie it into a bike discussion, but it was a lame attempt.

I had already allowed one ongoing thread that featured women in thongs, and happily ignored it for a few weeks. Then one day, I felt compelled as moderator to check it out, as the topic never seemed to die out as I'd been hoping it would. A few of the women on the site loved this topic for some reason, which doesn't help my case any!! Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled by the sight of women's (term used loosely, if they were in fact over 18) ass cheeks spread out in-your-face style. I dunno, doesn't turn me on.

Locking the thread proved to be unpopular- even the (male) webmaster didn't want to do it, he just gave me the green light to do it myself  Guess as the male, it makes you even LESS popular to close down those things. He would have to be >>gasp<< GAY to want to close it down, right?!

So anyway. That was over a week ago. So when I saw the latest link in Off Topic last night, after a very long and trying day in Real Life, I went apesh!t. And as expected, people cried "censorship," they whined about "having a little fun," they complained that they couldn't have "camaraderie," etc.

The webmaster responded by putting up a Women's Lounge, which I found entirely unnecessary and a bit condescending. One of my bike buds mentioned that the site is gonna turn into The View.  It's like they don't even know me.

Things have calmed down a bit, I even apologized for my initial reaction. Did you ever see that Dilbert comic, where people are walking around the office in bathrobes/jeans/naked, and the caption says, "Casual Day Has Gone Too Far"? That's how I feel about it. I had to become a bee-otch just to be heard, because things were getting a bit out of hand.

Hell, I ain't no prude. I originally wanted at least one or two hot man pictures posted for every hot female picture. But that would just turn into a pissing contest, I knew.

The site doesn't have to become like The View; I just don't want it to feel like a strip club. Gives me the creepy-crawlies just thinking about it.

So now I'm stressed about my virtual life, which is where I used to escape the stress of my REAL life! Silly, huh??


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Hmmm, so there's a porn thread for women? I'll have to check out that link  No need to link it to bikes, though. Or are there photos of male riders?

Hot photos of well-known riders wouldn't bother me: As I said on our local site, we ride to stay fit. We want to stay fit to remain attractive (oh yeah, healthy too, yeah right whatever!) We want to be fit, attractive, healthy and sexy. Women new to the sport could use a little encouragement along the lines of, mud + sweat = sexy. The stripper photos do the opposite, reminding would-be biking women that mud + sweat probably = butch lesbian in the minds of men (not that there's anything.....oh you know.)

Like that calendar that was put out featuring female riders in the buff, fine! The focus is on how biking has sculpted their bodies. It's not about eating disorders, starvation, questionable sexual history, stripping, prostitution or cosmetic enhancements.

I suspect that nobody will want to ride with me anymore, 'cause now they think I'll go ape if they so much as say "boobies." Ah, whatever, riding solo is fine too!!


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## poacher (Jul 1, 2003)

Bikehigh said:


> So, if indead you did get roasted, toasted, and fried, are there no guys who hang out over there that would come to your rescue and stand up for you. If not, that's pretty sad. I'm a landscaper, and post on a lawn service forum where a lot of the guys are, to put it mildly, ********. Even those guys know how to control themselves. Sure I, and a few others, have to take the risk of speaking out when certain fools start degrading women or minorities on a forum that's related to our profession, but it pays off when we do. If nobody is gonna say anything to those guys for fear of getting flamed, then it's not gonna change. I wish I had time to keep up with all that goes down on these forums you talk about. I have no problem getting flamed. You shouldn't either.


You may never have encountered "Pete the a-hole" and his B!tch D.J. They would flame for sure, then it would turn in to a thread about how cool pete is.. 
As I said, 98% of the time I could care less, but it irks me when I see it displayed as if we gals aren't even here... heck I might be okay if there were some equalization show some hot fellas... but as Christine stated it would probably turn into a pissing contest. I appreciate your encouragement, I know there are a lot of really super guys out there. Perhaps next time I'll chime in.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Christine said:


> Yesterday I was pooped and in a bad mood, when I saw one of the guys at my local site (not MTBR) post a link to something on beer.com. He tried to tie it into a bike discussion, but it was a lame attempt.
> 
> I had already allowed one ongoing thread that featured women in thongs, and happily ignored it for a few weeks. Then one day, I felt compelled as moderator to check it out, as the topic never seemed to die out as I'd been hoping it would. A few of the women on the site loved this topic for some reason, which doesn't help my case any!! Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled by the sight of women's (term used loosely, if they were in fact over 18) ass cheeks spread out in-your-face style. I dunno, doesn't turn me on.
> 
> ...


It might help if your co-moderator, site owner acknowledges ownership of the decision making, instead "letting you handle" it without comment, which I see as a copout and makes you a target.

formica


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

Local forums are a strange bag. People seem so much more likely to say things online that they would never say in person. But, when you know the folks behind the screennames, it gets to you so much more.

Personally, if I were in your position (which I ain't), I'd relinquish my moderator status. Then again, I think the job of moderating sucks. People will ***** no matter what you do.

When the soft core got a little out of hand at a local website, I found my own strategy. See, it's not the photos themselves that bother me so much. It's sitting at work, clicking on a page, and suddenly having half naked chicks splattered across the screen (which inevitably happens right when someone else is walking by).

So, if they post chicks in thongs, I'd just toss up a dude thong. I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I think they got the point.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*best idea yet*



catzilla said:


> L
> 
> So, if they post chicks in thongs, I'd just toss up a dude thong. I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I think they got the point.


that is such a great idea!!! I was thinking, counteract each bazoonga thread with a discussion of the merit of pads vs. tampons vs the keeper, but that is so much better....

better yet, post lots of guys in chaps. With dog collars.

formica


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

Christine said:


> Hot photos of well-known riders wouldn't bother me: As I said on our local site, we ride to stay fit. We want to stay fit to remain attractive (oh yeah, healthy too, yeah right whatever!) We want to be fit, attractive, healthy and sexy. Women new to the sport could use a little encouragement along the lines of, mud + sweat = sexy. The stripper photos do the opposite, reminding would-be biking women that mud + sweat probably = butch lesbian in the minds of men (not that there's anything.....oh you know.)


Bravo! Well put!


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*lol*

Ok if I may step up to the mic.... "tap tap tap" Is this thing on? Testing 123. testing 123....

Christine you are not a prude, you are a person with morals and those are things that are being left in the dirt. As a guy, a husband, a father, and a brother of five sisters I think I can chime in on this.

We have a few situations here. First of all I would just like to point out that if Americans became a lot more less uptight about nudity it wouldn't be that big of a deal, like the Euro's. Second, too objectify is bad taste but to artfully display is fine. Third, to worry about what they think of you is ok but don't let it become the focus of your objective. Four, if you want to see men in the same light I encourage you ladies to bring it on. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Ladies maybe I am crossing the line and I ask for a little slack on this but this is your forum... So have fun with it.... If you don't like guys coming in here lock us out... Who cares about the jerks that cry all the time... They are just jealous of the types of relationships women can have...

Oh and Christine I had to laugh so hard at your references to the female anatomy. I love women, I think they are the most beautiful creatures on this earth. Do I look at my wife the same way? Yes because everyday she becomes more beautiful. Do i look at those pictures? Yes I am human, not just because I am a guy. Do I wish I was objectified or gazed at by ladies "Uh yes" I am a guy...

So in the end I think the point I am trying to make here is that there is a fine line for everything but the one line that counts the most is your own. Once you cross your boundaries you have done nothing to solve the problem.

Cheers ladies

Oh, if I thought seeing me dressed or undressed would help any of you I would post a picture but I don't think your medical would cover the damage I would do to you...

You know, now that I think about that, I must get my wife to the doctors I think her eyesight is bad....

-Dude


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

I must admit that I'm rather insulted by the webmaster's immediate reaction: He put up a ladies' only lounge, complete with password for the women on the board. 

So the guys get upset that they're locked out; they get pissed at the women for demanding this; the women are like "WTF? We didn't ask for this." I really don't understand what he was thinking by doing that, hoping we would go away? Assuming we would need to protect our delicate sensibilities? Gimme a break.

Now, the women are asking me in the Lounge what I've been doing with my free time, is it due to a BF, etc. I resent being shuffled into a locked room where gossip is starting to take place just because I took a valid stand as a moderator!!

Jeezus, why is it so difficult for guys to understand: Women want to mountain bike just like they do. Women enjoy the camaraderie and don't mind bawdy talk. 

But when it comes to constant photos of unnaturally-sexed-up women, it creeps us out. Being around horny men makes us feel vunerable, for obvious reasons. Maybe it's millions of years of instinct telling us, "dangerous situation" or something. Just an immediate thought.


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*hmmmmmmmmmm*

Well Christine I think I would be insulted also if it was his decision and not discussed with the group. As for the locker room way of thinking, take this obstacle and turn it into an opportunity. That might lead to a great sense of self awareness. You might find some new friends. The only other options is to bail on your moderator duties and not visit the board for a while.

Guys do understand that women want to mountain bike, road bike, skydive, rock climb etc etc.... What I think is being missed with this is that drama tags along. I am not saying you brought it with you, but it does appear more with gals than just guys. All my sisters tell me the same thing. I asked a few tonight, if you had the choice to ride with all girls or all guys what would it be..... They said all guys but it would be nice to have a few girls along. The meat of the conversation came down to drama. They felt as though women have an ability or need to make the male feel like they are needed by acting helpless, when in fact it is doing to opposite. I also believe that you are either in or your out. You go with the mindset of taking care of yourself and don't rely on anyone else, but if you get help that is fine.

Now as with everything else in life if someone or something is given an inch they will try to take a yard. You give the opportunity to be objectified and you will be. You give the impression of being one way, people will judge you based upon that. Women allow this to happen. They are the ones going after the money and fame of being on the wall of every jock soaked freshmen. It's not the guys issue that college gals, some younger some older want to be on "Girls Gone Wild". How about Janet Jackson having a wardrobe issue on national tv, or the monday night football intro. It's not the guys that are trying out for the girls part.

I don't understand why a women in this day and age should feel vulnerable at all. You hold all the power when it comes down to it. You hold the key to success, to family, to a new life, to sex, to money etc etc..... When people start to realize it takes themselves and not others in life to make life that is when insecurities of self evaluation will diminish. Until this behavior stops people will never feel as thou they measure up. Look, men think about sex every 3 seconds and women think about it every 30 minutes. Don't you think it becomes exhausting as a male to think about it all the time but never get it until we are allowed too. It's like the dog that waits for his master all day so they can play ball, only to have the master feed him then go to bed. Men are like dogs: All that we want is some attention from the one that interest us, feed us and let us play... We will guard you and take care of the homeland.... Yes women are like cats, they only want attention from the one that they care about when they want it. They will get it when they want it and not only when it is given. Cats like to pretty themselves more than dogs. Dogs play in the mud and sleep outside. Cats poop in a box that is freshly scented....

Guys are smart but act dumb. Girls are smart and we know it but stop trying to act dumb. If women want this to stop they have to make it stop... Because like I said we are the dog and if you keep throwing the ball we will chase until we are dead.

-Dude

Disclaimer: I, we, you, he, she, they, them, me, guys, girls are being used in the thread only to help make the point and is in no means meant or directed to any person reading this or likely to read this.


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## DutchGrrl (Oct 30, 2004)

*My Opinion...*



> Hallo Christine,
> 
> I must say first, I am not an American and so my opinions may be slightly counter to the "norm" found herein. That said, in my land and elsewhere in Europe, it is generally accepted that sex sells and men shall be men. They are, of course, subject to visual stimuli in an almost addictive manner.
> 
> ...


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## kept man (Jan 13, 2004)

Been following this thread.

I can't believe the solution was to put up another forum. That's retarded.

I do think it makes it clear that the issue here is not some explanation about male sexuality, or an apology for it, or a lack of understanding the perspective of female mountain bikers.

To even start to address those issues or discuss them - or to have them listen to (or I daresay, even ask for) your opinion would require maturity ... and that appears to be exactly what's lacking. A women's specific forum is the internet equivalent of putting a "No gurlz a-loud" sign up, and telling you to play in your own treehouse.

When the spazzy 8-year-old boys I work with start freaking out because they think the new 15-year-old volunteer working with us has "great boobs" it's kinda pathetic. When it's grown men doing exactly the same thing, it's that much more pathetic. And embarassing, to me. It's got nothing to do with 'just being a guy' ... it's got to do with how you deal with being a guy - and 'just' plain old being a person, in any setting.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*dude*

I know what you're saying, but very often while on the trail, when it comes to doing a repair or even trail maintenance, a guy will step in and *insist* on either helping, doing it himself or dare to show us the "right" way. We get a little miffed, and letting the guy do the work is our revenge!!  I do plenty of riding on my own, and if my repair skills kinda suck, it's not b/c I'm a girl, it's b/c I don't practice enough wrenching. Not that I haven't taken classes and bought the books....if need be, I'll call it a ride and have the shop do it right.

As for the sexuality thing, that really was a thought off the top of my head: I was trying to give guys a sense of what the vunerability feels like around porn, and as I was typing, the evolutionary thought came to mind. Just a theory on why we get so bothered.

Can't speak for all women, but every 30 minutes? Hmmm. I definitely think about sex more than that.....but not as much as I think about food, I'll give ya that much!

Regarding the male sex drive: In the words of Elaine Bennis, "I don't know *how* you guys walk around with those things...." :lol:


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

..."like a scared turtle"...

One of my favorite episodes.


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

Dude said:


> Oh, if I thought seeing me dressed or undressed would help any of you I would post a picture but I don't think your medical would cover the damage I would do to you...


You mean that's not you in that avatar?

Kathy ;^P


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*what Lucky said*

"I do think it makes it clear that the issue here is not some explanation about male sexuality, or an apology for it, or a lack of understanding the perspective of female mountain bikers.

To even start to address those issues or discuss them - or to have them listen to (or I daresay, even ask for) your opinion would require maturity ... and that appears to be exactly what's lacking. A women's specific forum is the internet equivalent of putting a "No gurlz a-loud" sign up, and telling you to play in your own treehouse."

Seriously!! Luckily, there are a few other guys that DO seem to get it over there.

Thanks for "listening" to me go on about this, even though it's virtual reality I feel rather hurt. And silly for reacting the way I did, but nobody listens otherwise.


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*Two more cents*

Christine,

Ok so from the "gasp" male side of things this is really a catch twenty two for us. If we don't help you we can be viewed as "He was a jerk and didn't even help" or we could help and be viewed as "he just insisted on doing it". So when I step away and take a long look at it, it comes down to the biggest fear a lot of people have; and that is communication. Taking what is said for what it is worth. No means no and not yes, yes doesn't mean no it means yes, and can you assist me doesn't mean I want to go home with you. I can only assume your skills are up to par as you say and being the father of a daughter I sure hope she at some point in her life develops those skills also. I really want her to be able to go on a date in an evening gown, have the car have carburetor problems and she gets out, rips the carb off and rebuilds it right there while the guy is in the car. She gets in and they continue on... My point being that "Girls should and do rock".

I was talking to the pediatrician once about my sons "hyper activity" and he looked at me and said this: Dude, all that testosterone running around in that little body what do you expect... They can't focus long enough to think..... This does change with time but the sad thing about it, men and women can never time it right. Men reach their sexual prime at eighteen or nineteen and women in their late thirties to forties. Men start to lose the sexual drive in their late thirties and forties. So the two never seem to find common ground and this starts at birth.

Yup 30 minutes for a women... The funny thing about what you said was that in the study food was the primary thought of most women. So the real question should be if women think about food during sex.

As for Miss Bennis, It is very difficult too be judged by something that really only performs for a few minutes but we are. DutchGrrl makes some very valid points about "suggestive" vs "porn" and the place it has in society. American and British culture promote this type of behavior everywhere. We as a society have not learned how to deal with it yet, will we ever? Yes because I think the European influence in America with start to take hold in several years and times will change. I am not saying that you should except what they did or are doing based on that but in the whole realm we have bigger fish to fry.

And for Lucky: I take the fifth....


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## spartacus (Aug 2, 2004)

For the record. I am the one at the other forum that started the "thong Thursday thread". This is the thread that caused the controversy. I do not mean to intrude in this sub forum, But if you will. I would like to state that at the time when I started the thread I thought it was a good way to ease the tension that was being formed from the political forum. There was a lot of bickering going on and I though it would ease the tension. We (the group that I ride with do a lot of joking about everything including thongs. We account for well over 1/2 the posting at the forum that Christine's a moderator at) Joke a lot about thongs, the Men and women I ride with, so I thought it would definitely ease the tension and didn't at the time think it was inappropriate. *NOTE: I would like to add that I believe it did ease the tension. There was no insult intended with the thong thread. It just escalated and I have to admit that the twins was a little much (sorry Christine), But there was NO nudity posted. Mostly girls in bikinis. I believe that one girl posted a guy in a Speedo in that thread, which I did encourage more of. We are not a bunch of pervs as you guys are probably beginning to think. Our rides flow exactly over to the forum as we act when riding. Just a bunch of goof balls having fun. Most of us are not toads when it comes to riding we can hold own, but fun is priority. I do not think I ever met Christine and I still encourage her to come ride with us so she can see how we are the same as we appear on the forum. If at all I offended anybody at vision I am truly sorry. But this is the real me....a goof ball till I die. I also would like to add that the forums owner had told me in a post not even 2 hours before it was locked that it was a safe thread....which put him in a bad spot.
Note: I will not respond to this post, With repect, This is a womens lounge. if you would like to contact me for my opinion feel free to PM me


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

I have no problem either way - if I don't want to look at porn I don't open up threads that sound like that's what they're about. A moderated community can be nice - it keeps things organized and easy to stay up to date. It takes a lot less time to find the specific info you're looking for.

But I'm an adult - I can read what I want and ignore the rest. And I pretty much assume men like looking at boobs and such. I can block users if they post stuff I don't want to see in inappropriate places or attack people or whatever it is that makes me wish they weren't there. As long as it's posted in an appropriately titled thread so I can make an educated decision - post whatever you want. I don't care.


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## turdburgle (Aug 4, 2004)

Hey, could you post a link to that forum. I'd like to check out some of these photos


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Spartacus- had somebody asked, "Who started that thread?" I wouldn't have been able to answer. So it's truly nothing personal.

Connie- it's easy to ignore the threads, which I did for a long time. But IMO they made the site look cheesy as hell. I can overlook a picture here and there, but when guys start to equate "easing the tension on the board" with t&a, I get pretty fed up. Didn't help MY tension levels any.

My goal is to incorporate more women into the mtb realm, and by giving an inch the guys took a mile. They simply need to peek at a different website to "ease the tension" (which sounds like a euphamism for jerking off.......{{{shudder}}} )

I just hope this subject doesn't come up on the Thanksgiving morning ride. Sick to death of explaining my position, shouldn't be this difficult.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

oops double post sorry


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## Zonic Man (Dec 19, 2003)

I like looking at pictures of tits and ass.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> But IMO they made the site look cheesy as hell. I can overlook a picture here and there, but when guys start to equate "easing the tension on the board" with t&a, I get pretty fed up. Didn't help MY tension levels any.
> 
> My goal is to incorporate more women into the mtb realm, and by giving an inch the guys took a mile. They simply need to peek at a different website to "ease the tension" (which sounds like a euphamism for jerking off.......{{{shudder}}} )
> 
> I just hope this subject doesn't come up on the Thanksgiving morning ride. Sick to death of explaining my position, shouldn't be this difficult.


If it were me....
1. I'd put up a sticky post saying something like " the moderators have decided that soft porn, bazongas, booty, sexual innuendo ( whatever ) is not longer considered accpetable and any further posts will be deleted. There have been complaints, and the goal is to keep this a mountain biking board where *everyone* feels welcome." Me, being somewhat of a smartass at times, would also add something like " if you really need a fix of T&A to make it through the day, there are 1,278,345,766 other websites you can go to" Period, end of sentence, no discussion. No need to explain yourself. Just refer people back to the sticky if they whine about it. They WILL get over it. No need to explain yourself in person either. Dotn get sucked into explainations, justifications etc. Just state the facts. No one needs to know how many complaints, either, that's none of their business.

Look at it this way: You stepped up and volunteered to be a moderator.
They didn't. The way I see it, that automatically gives you more say.

If I were questioned in person about it... one of two things would happen. I'd either still refer people to the sticky saying, the new policy has been posted on the board and it's not up for discussion, or, I'd say something like "I take being a moderator seriously, that means considering everyone's needs, not just the needs of one user group. Would you like to volunteer?." Or, "there were enough complaints that this is not up for discussion". Period. Then, don't discuss it anymore, ask them what their favorite kind of pie is.

If I were there I'd back you up 100% on this. My experience with 4-5 years of moderating a busy outdoors board has shown me that clean, somewhat on topic discussion is appreciated by a lot of people. It's also shown me that folks are willing to cooperate once they know what the rules are. Some people will get away with whatever they can, much to the discomfort of others.

formica


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

DutchGrrl said:


> > Hallo Christine,
> >
> > I must say first, I am not an American and so my opinions may be slightly counter to the "norm" found herein. That said, in my land and elsewhere in Europe, it is generally accepted that sex sells and men shall be men. They are, of course, subject to visual stimuli in an almost addictive manner.
> >
> > ...


Its amazing how well folks in other cultures can present our language to us, yet we can't even find their country on a map!

I was in the Navy for three years and we toured the beaches of Europe. Even at 22, I was stunned how the other sailors reacted to the topless beachgoers...like they had never seen anything like it before. It just shouldn't be such a big deal, but in America, it is.

That being said, I can understand the perspective of any individual who visits a website for one purpose only to be bombarded by another. I was offended by the E.D. ads! Maybe that's something for the roadie site...I don't know. So for us, maybe we just need to look past it. It's not prudish to be offended and the ads and threads should show respect for everyone. But something my fiancee always says to me, and it seems to hold true in practice, "it's only as big a deal as you make it".


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## ZOOM (May 14, 2004)

*Here is my vote against porn on MTBR.*

I'm with Christine and everyone else who is against any type of porn or off color content on MTBR. I have a hard enough time concentrating on the trail as it is, I don't need images of a naked woman jumping into my head while negotiating the technical stuff, that would be ugly!!. I am all for light hearted friendly bike content but not the light minded stuff that contains naked women (or men for that matter). Call me a prude I'm proud of it!!!


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*My vote*

Keep the bike sites on topic. Like Formica said there are like a billion porno sites. I don't come to mtbr for an anatomy lesson. Seen enough of the human anatomy both inside and out (having been an OR RN). to last a lifetime  Besides I have an 11 year old son who is getting into mtbing and sometimes likes to look at the posts with me. I'd like to see the site kept clean.

Donna


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Agreed. My son is 12 and likes to check out the photos and it would be nice to not have to worry about the porn. Thankfully MTBR is pretty clean (although I don't look at the DH forum, so I'm not sure what that one is up to) and it's easy enough to preview posts before I let him look, but some boards are peppered with the soft porn (and worse) in such a way that I can't really monitor it as a parent.

For me it's a difficult line to walk. Having a artistic background I can appreciate the nude calendar of the mountainbiking women, but the garish thong pics and such certainly don't fall into that category. Given that some cannot discern the difference it may be best not to include any of it on a board such as this, but catering to the lowest common denominator is always sad.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

Zonic Man said:


> I like looking at pictures of tits and ass.


As alluded to be4 go to:

bikemojo.com/speak

under the raspa forum just look for the matrix reloaded thread.

soozy mite like the 007 thread the women folk have put up.


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