# Jones Plus



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

has arrived......


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Sweet. I've been waiting to read a ride report on this bike.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Just a date with a can of Weigle's tonight!


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

SeaBass_ said:


> Just a date with a can of Weigle's tonight!


Ah, but she looks good standing there.


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

Which size did you get, and why?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

MauricioB said:


> Which size did you get, and why?


After speaking to Jeff numerous times, I settled on the 25" due to my preference for larger frames and being 6'3 with long arms and legs.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Got some assembly time this afternoon. Have to pick up some spacers from the LBS. Fork clamp tolerance on installation is very tight. I put a 5mm on the bottom to increase BB height but I'm sure I'll tweak it upon further assembly. Maybe 2.5 top and bottom and go from there. Front wheel will be built Monday. I went with the WTB Scrapers and Chronicles with a Hope 40pt rear hub and I'll be using the Jones 135/142 front hub. It'll be a 1x10 with a 32t NW oval ring, 11-36 cassette, XT clutch RD with some nice XT cranks and a trusty BBG bashguard. BB7's with a 203/180 combo for stopping. Threw my Eriksen Sweetpost on there as well.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

SeaBass_ said:


> Got some assembly time this afternoon. Have to pick up some spacers from the LBS. Fork clamp tolerance on installation is very tight. I put a 5mm on the bottom to increase BB height but I'm sure I'll tweak it upon further assembly. Maybe 2.5 top and bottom and go from there. Front wheel will be built Monday. I went with the WTB Scrapers and Chronicles with a Hope 40pt rear hub and I'll be using the Jones 135/142 front hub. It'll be a 1x10 with a 32t NW oval ring, 11-36 cassette, XT clutch RD with some nice XT cranks and a trusty BBG bashguard. BB7's with a 203/180 combo for stopping. Threw my Eriksen Sweetpost on there as well.


Sounds like a downright honest build. I'd be doing nearly the same thing except I wouldn't have the Sweet Post.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

Slow Danger said:


> Sweet. I've been waiting to read a ride report on this bike.


So have I...nice to see this bike has a dedicated thread now.

That looks like it will be a sweet build, looking forward to hearing what you think of it. Mine will be similar, but I'm going for offset double cranks and XT brakes.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Just waiting for the LBS to finish building my front wheel and for my chainring to arrive.

"The waiting is the hardest part" - Tom Petty.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

SeaBass_ said:


> Just waiting for the LBS to finish building my front wheel and for my chainring to arrive.
> 
> "The waiting is the hardest part" - Tom Petty.


I know the feeling, it took longer to liberate the frame and parts from the bureaucracy of customs than it did for it to be shipped from the other side of the world.

Anyway, we got one built up yesterday just in time to take it for a ride. It's surprising how it still feels like a Jones yet it's quite different to the spaceframe. It's definitely not slow handling (fortunately!), and it isn't quite so abrupt going over bumps. It seems to have lots of traction and seems to climb very well-not sure how much of that is the frame vs the plus tyres though. It seems to pick up and carry speed downhill pretty well too, though I haven't decided how much I trust the tyres yet...

I'm looking forward to learning more about the bike over the next few weeks.


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

morphosity said:


> I know the feeling, it took longer to liberate the frame and parts from the bureaucracy of customs than it did for it to be shipped from the other side of the world.
> 
> Anyway, we got one built up yesterday just in time to take it for a ride. It's surprising how it still feels like a Jones yet it's quite different to the spaceframe. It's definitely not slow handling (fortunately!), and it isn't quite so abrupt going over bumps. It seems to have lots of traction and seems to climb very well-not sure how much of that is the frame vs the plus tyres though. It seems to pick up and carry speed downhill pretty well too, though I haven't decided how much I trust the tyres yet...
> 
> I'm looking forward to learning more about the bike over the next few weeks.


Any further comments, you've had it for a couple of weeks now 

Did you get the 24" or 25"?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'm very curious to hear how those long chainstays affect the ease to lift the front.

How long is the seat tube on the 25" model?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> I'm very curious to hear how those long chainstays affect the ease to lift the front.
> 
> How long is the seat tube on the 25" model?


On my 25" frame, with the EBB at 6 o'clock, seat tube is just over 20".

The trails are melting by me so I have to wait for them to dry a bit before I get out. From just cruising around the neighborhood, it handles very nicely. Not as easy to pop the front as my Krampus but I still need to get used to it.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

martin_uk said:


> Any further comments, you've had it for a couple of weeks now
> 
> Did you get the 24" or 25"?


Haha yes, I've been meaning to write a bit more about this but I thought I'd wait until after the weekend so I can get a bit more time on the bike and confirm a few of the things I've been thinking about it.

As far as the bike itself goes, I'm really enjoying it. I can see why it would be a great bike for a long distance ride, but it's also great fun as a trailbike. It's surprisingly maneuverable for what is a pretty big bike (though I should probably say that one of the other bikes I spend a lot of my riding time on is a WFO9 which has a pretty similar wheelbase). At the same time it's very stable and confidence inspiring. The wide balance point that Jeff talks about is very noticeable-I'm still getting used to that and figuring out what works best.

The steering is actually pretty light, certainly lighter than a Spaceframe with a fat front. To answer seat_boy's question, I haven't had any problems lifting the front end with the long chainstays-none that I've noticed anyway. The bike climbs very well and rides a lot lighter than it really is.

I got the 24" one as that was what Jeff recommended for me. I'm about 6' tall and really like the fit of the steel Spaceframe-this feels very similar-I have a 70mm stem on both bikes. I might post up a bit more after I've done some more riding.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

morphosity said:


> Haha yes, I've been meaning to write a bit more about this but I thought I'd wait until after the weekend so I can get a bit more time on the bike and confirm a few of the things I've been thinking about it.
> 
> As far as the bike itself goes, I'm really enjoying it. I can see why it would be a great bike for a long distance ride, but it's also great fun as a trailbike. It's surprisingly maneuverable for what is a pretty big bike (though I should probably say that one of the other bikes I spend a lot of my riding time on is a WFO9 which has a pretty similar wheelbase). At the same time it's very stable and confidence inspiring. The wide balance point that Jeff talks about is very noticeable-I'm still getting used to that and figuring out what works best.
> 
> ...


Hi so how long is the seat tube on your 24" Jones Plus?

Has anyone got a few more photo's of the Jones Plus...

Just sold two bikes and about to buy a 29+

It's down to a Surly ECR or a Jones Plus?

Kiwi Pete


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi so how long is the seat tube on your 24" Jones Plus?
> 
> Has anyone got a few more photo's of the Jones Plus...
> 
> ...


Re. the seat tube length, unfortunately I am away from the bike so I can't measure it directly at the moment. However on Jeff's blog post about the Plus he says that the seat tube on the 24" frame is about 2" shorter than the 25" frame (I think SeaBass_ says that is 20" above). My guess would have been about 18" for the 24" frame before all that, oh well. I can get a more exact measurement in a few days.

There's also a few other pictures on Jeff's blog showing what the standover works out to be which might be useful.

Some images...not just one but two bikes...the black one is mine.

























I'm really enjoying the bike, it's a fun ride, which is what a bike should be. It's surprisingly good in tight singletrack (which I know is a hard thing to quantify on the Internet) i.e. doesn't feel clumsy or awkward like some bikes do. It also seems to carry speed well, probably because of the long wheelbase.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

*Rohloff Plus*

Hi *Morphosity*
Thanks the pines look a little like the tree's here in Taupo, New Zealand?
I have just sold two bike's and i'm going to build up a 29+ to ride in the up coming *Tour Aotearoa 2016*!
I have cut my list of bikes down to a *Surly ECR* and the *Jones Plus*
I have looked up the Jeff's blog etc, but i'm thinking that i'll be seating on the Top Tube? not over it?

I'm planning to run a Rohloff gearhub, XT brakes, and maybe Tubeless tyres?

By the way you bikes look great 

Kiwi Pete :eekster:


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi *Morphosity*
> Thanks the pines look a little like the tree's here in Taupo, New Zealand?
> I have just sold two bike's and i'm going to build up a 29+ to ride in the up coming *Tour Aotearoa 2016*!
> I have cut my list of bikes down to a *Surly ECR* and the *Jones Plus*
> ...


Thanks  the trees are actually reasonably close to Taupo, that picture is at Woodhill. That Tour Aotearoa looks like an awesome ride, it would definitely be a very cool thing to do.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either the ECR or Plus-both bikes seem like they would be well suited to a long distance ride like that. I'd buy the one that fitted me best.

That sounds like it would be a good setup-I would use tubeless tyres for a ride like that because I think they noticeably improve rolling resistance and the sealant should deal with small punctures.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi *morphosity*
Thanks for that in your photos I noticed the saddle is lower than in most photos of a Jones Plus! How high do you run with saddle? Just trying to get a better idea of fit for me.
The ECR is short top tube for me and I would have to run a M size ECR so start to like a Jones Plus more, as I can get my saddle back more than with a ECR.

Kiwi Pete


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi Pete,

I'm still working on the setup for the bike, but I found the saddle height in that picture to work well on singletrack. Unfortunately I don't know exactly what that height is as I wasn't particularly scientific when I set it up. If I was going to be riding a lot of gravel I'd probably want it to be 10 mm or so higher.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Well after riding a Demo Surly ECR
It's time to order a Jones Plus

Kiwi Pete


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

He was keen i called him too, so eventually i did. Well worth it. Skype is great for such occasions


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi thanks martin_uk 
I just phoned Jeff this morning and waiting on an email of the Plus with the saddle setup at my high. 
We will see ;-)

Kiwi Pete 😈


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

*New Jones Plus Coming*

Hi All,
Well I tryed emailing Jeff a number of time's and posted here about not working out if a *Jones Plus* would work for me?
Jeff and a few of you said to phone him! so last Saturday I phoned Jeff (Yes that was Easter Friday! in the USA) Jeff was so helpful asked a number off things and said i'll set up my _(Jeff's Jones Plus)_ to my saddle placement and bar's at the closest placement. Take some photo's and email them to me.
Well thanks to Jeff for his time in setting up his bike and taking the photo's I have *ordered* a Jones Plus 24" in Blue 
How I just have to wait 

Here are a few photo's that Jeff emailed me.

_*Kiwi Pete*_


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

Hey there Pete- how was the riding different? I am wanting one of the two and cant ride a Jones Plus. I demo'd an ECR last weekend and fit me just great. Just trying to get all the info I can. Thanks in advance.....

Timboat


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

I've owned two Jones bikes and have spoken to Jeff several times. I can't emphasize the importance of actually talking to him. In a world where we tend to shy away from actually verbal communication, Jeff is sort of old school. He'll spend the time with each customer to make sure you are completely comfortable with his product. He WANTS to talk to you.

That's a huge plus for me. He really is invested in his business and never seems "bigger" than the buyer.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

timboat said:


> Hey there Pete- how was the riding different? I am wanting one of the two and cant ride a Jones Plus. I demo'd an ECR last weekend and fit me just great. Just trying to get all the info I can. Thanks in advance.....
> 
> Timboat


Hi *timboat*, 
I have not rode a Jones Plus yet! have to wait for my *Jones Plus* frameset to come. 
But for me the *ECR* is not for me!
Why? 
Because with the standard offset seatpost and the saddle all the way back, my knees are in front of the pedals. 
Not good for a good bike fitting and when I'm planning to ride over 3000km's in one ride I need a good fit.
All I can say is phone Jeff ask Questions

Kiwi Pete 

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Trails were finally dry enough to get the Plus for a little 8 mile ride. The Plus rides like no other rigid bike I've ever owned (SIR9, Mukluk, Krampus). It's extremely confident in the rough stuff and corners beautifully. It jumps nicely as well and only shows its weight a bit in the climbs but that's more early season me than the bike.

I wound up setting it up as an SS with an Absolute Black 32t ring and a 20t out back, Thomson Dropper with a Brooks B17 (Comfortable out of the box!), BB7's, WTB Scrapers with a Hope 40pt rear hub and Chronicles, and Ergon's. Had a lot of fun on it. I did get a lot of weird looks at the trailhead when I was rolling by!


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Looking Good :thumbsup:

NZPeterG


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## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

My lbs had a 25" black in stock and I couldn't resist and had them put together a spec and start the process. The only thing I'm worried about is the sizing. I'm just at 6ft with a 32 inseam... The lbs had another jones (not plus) in stock and based it off of how I fit on that bike. Based on what I've read the cockpit is more upright so maybe that won't be the issue but I'm wondering what else to look out for as far as fit.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

dilutedq said:


> My lbs had a 25" black in stock and I couldn't resist and had them put together a spec and start the process. The only thing I'm worried about is the sizing. I'm just at 6ft with a 32 inseam... The lbs had another jones (not plus) in stock and based it off of how I fit on that bike. Based on what I've read the cockpit is more upright so maybe that won't be the issue but I'm wondering what else to look out for as far as fit.


I'm 6'2 with a 34 inseam and while the 25" looks big, it doesn't handle like a big bike. you really sit more "in" the bike rather than on it. I took mine on some techy stuff today for the first time and what I found is that for me, riding in the Northeast, it would be best to set the EBB at 12:00 and run a bashguard as I was getting a bunch of pedal strikes on rocks and chunking my 32t chainring going over logs. Jeff Jones advised running 170 cranks but I don't think the 5mm would make much of a difference for me. I'm running a 60mm stem with Loop bars, you might want to start with a 50mm, or order a 24" frame.


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

dilutedq said:


> My lbs had a 25" black in stock and I couldn't resist and had them put together a spec and start the process. The only thing I'm worried about is the sizing. I'm just at 6ft with a 32 inseam... The lbs had another jones (not plus) in stock and based it off of how I fit on that bike. Based on what I've read the cockpit is more upright so maybe that won't be the issue but I'm wondering what else to look out for as far as fit.


Are there shops w/Jones bikes in them? I thought it was almost a go see Jeff in OR thing or hope to get the right one by dialing it in over the phone.....


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## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

There are dealers.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

dilutedq said:


> There are dealers.


There are 3 that carry framesets - Cali, Illinois, and Maryland.

Dealers


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

Yes I went looking this morning already.... East Coast, south, west coast and mid west... nothing in the rockies. That might be a good place to put one. I will give Jeff a call and see what could be done. Then again, a good trip w/my fatty out to OR might be a good thing to do as well~! Would love to see the beach w/that. Thx for the replies


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

*New Jones Plus Here*

Well today my new *Jones Plus* 24" frameset came in the post 
How the fun of building start's

:thumbsup:

*Kiwi Pete*


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Well today my new *Jones Plus* 24" frameset came in the post
> How the fun of building start's
> 
> :thumbsup:
> ...


Got your can of Frame Saver?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SeaBass_ said:


> Got your can of Frame Saver?


Hi Thanks I have taking home my *Tectyl 506 HD* (frame save) 
Plus ordered a Headset too today  
Was going to order a Silver headset but one of the supplyer had a black one for sale at 70% off wholesale :eekster: so black it is (last set) 

_Kiwi Pete_


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi Thanks I have taking home my *Tectyl 506 HD* (frame save)
> Plus ordered a Headset too today
> Was going to order a Silver headset but one of the supplyer had a black one for sale at 70% off wholesale :eekster: so black it is (last set)
> 
> _Kiwi Pete_


Needed a bit of patience setting up the truss fork but everything else was cake.

However, if you are not going to run a front derailleur and want to plug the hole in the bottom of the BB shell where the cable guide goes, either install the guide anyway or use a shorter screw. If you use the supplied screw and tighten it all the way down, it will dig into the EBB and prevent you from adjusting it. I found that out the hard way!


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

So I actually had a chance to talk w/Jeff on his 29+ bike the other day. Great guy, even though on the busy side of things right now- kind enough to take the time to talk. He answered all questions, but for the folks that have had a chance to own/ride one, do you sit in the bike (like the ECR that I rode) or ride more on top of the bike (like the Krampus)? I will probably pull the trigger on one eventually, but wanted to know everyone's thoughts. Just had ACL surgery last Thursday and need a carrot/light at the end of the tunnel for later this summer. I told him that I would like to come out to OR and ride one (and a few of his others) and see. Thanks in advance for your input~! 
Tim


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I have a Krampus HT and a 25" Jones Plus. Totally different posture and ride but both are awesome. You sit in the Jones in a more upright position but it rips. Its the most capable and comfortable rigid bike I've owned. The Krampus is more of a full out attack, destroy all obstacles in its path beast, especially with a 130mm Float 34. The Jones feels like you should be moseying along with a cigar in your mouth but you're actually ripping along down the trail as it laughs at rocks that get in it's way. The Krampus is more of knife in your teeth as you sound your barbaric yawp and jump over boulders type of ride. Make sense?


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## joop (Dec 11, 2006)

SeaBass, did you not know all of us JJ riders smoke cigars all the time we ride and leave others in our smoke and dust


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

Seabass- Thanks- w/news like that might be out $4K sooner than thought~! Jeff said he is out of the 24" and would have to wait for the next production- but at 5 10-11" and shrinking I will still probably go out and ride one to see for sure.... Muchos again~!


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

joop said:


> SeaBass, did you not know all of us JJ riders smoke cigars all the time we ride and leave others in our smoke and dust


You sure that's a cigar?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SeaBass_ said:


> Needed a bit of patience setting up the truss fork but everything else was cake.
> 
> However, if you are not going to run a front derailleur and want to plug the hole in the bottom of the BB shell where the cable guide goes, either install the guide anyway or use a shorter screw. If you use the supplied screw and tighten it all the way down, it will dig into the EBB and prevent you from adjusting it. I found that out the hard way!


Hi *Thank's*
I'm going to leave the screw out so I have a drain hole at the BB.

Just oiled the inside of my frame and fork today how drying

*Kiwi Pete*
:thumbsup:


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Update
Frameset oiled
Headset fitted
Forks fitted
Ordering more parts










Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

I put my Jones Plus together last Friday and left Saturday for a 70 mile overnighter with a group of friends. I was thoroughly impressed. The bike was everything that Jeff said this bike would be. It just gobbled up singletrack, all loaded up, it was amazing. I can't wait to spend more time on it unloaded (I did get several rides on a demo rig at my LBS before I ordered it).

I came from a Krampus, but I never got along with it. The Jones is so stable without being slow and I prefer the ride of the Jones to the Krampus. Loved the low bottom bracket, I had it slammed all the way down and didn't have any issues with pedal strikes. I always felt I was way up in the air on my Krampus.

I set it up 1x with a 26t front and 11-36t cassette, which is how I set my Pug up. In the future I will probably go to a 2x with a 20/33t, because as I was getting tired I was wishing for a lower gear.

The WTB Scrapers\Chronicles are stout and super easy to setup tubeless, something I couldn't get to work on my Rabbit Hole\Knard setup.

The bike was easy to build, and I really like the Bushnell Ebb, it was easy to setup and not a single creek even after a very deep stream crossing.

Even though I don't frame saver my steel frames the ED coating is very nice to have.

The TRP Spyre brakes were nice and quiet, I'm glad I went with them over my BB7s. Since the truss fork is so stout I may upgrade to 200mm rotors in the front.


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## Fatalpine (Feb 23, 2012)

Is there some people riding a Pugs and a Jones+ and can explain difference confort and handling?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Fatalpine said:


> Is there some people riding a Pugs and a Jones+ and can explain difference confort and handling?


I had a Mukluk for a couple years before I got the Krampus and then the Jones. They're worlds apart. On the Muk, I always felt shaky on singletrack at speed because the 26x4.0's didn't like to turn. The Jones just rails turns. While both take a bit of effort to get rolling, the Jones carries its momentum much better. Comfortwise, the Jones comes out on top as well. I have a Brooks B17 on mine and it's like an ass hammock - pure bliss. The Jones surpasses the Muk in the Gnar as well, by a large degree.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

SeaBass_ said:


> I had a Mukluk for a couple years before I got the Krampus and then the Jones. They're worlds apart. On the Muk, I always felt shaky on singletrack at speed because the 26x4.0's didn't like to turn. The Jones just rails turns. While both take a bit of effort to get rolling, the Jones carries its momentum much better. Comfortwise, the Jones comes out on top as well. I have a Brooks B17 on mine and it's like an ass hammock - pure bliss. The Jones surpasses the Muk in the Gnar as well, by a large degree.
> View attachment 986338
> 
> View attachment 986339


I have a Krampus and 2014 Mukluk. They both rip in singletrack. I will give a slight edge to the Karmpus for overall comfort and ride. When I get the tires on the Mukluk low enough to give me a nice tire squish (about 9 PSI) I get a bit of self steer with the Husker Du's. At 10 PSI on the karmpus with Chupacabras I get zero self steer, and the tires have yet to break loose in a turn. 
The bikes were so similar to me that I converted the Krampus to single speed to make the two different.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

So my wife, who's not the most observant when it comes to my bikes, just saw me pedaling the Jones Plus around in the street with my 5 yr old daughter and asked "Is that another one of your bikes you scavenged from the garbage??"


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## wjphillips (Oct 13, 2008)

In a way, it's a backhanded compliment.


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

Fatalpine said:


> Is there some people riding a Pugs and a Jones+ and can explain difference confort and handling?


I have a Pug and I would say it's dramatically different then the Jones Plus. Considering my Pug and Jones weight pretty much the same and have the same drivetrain, the Jones is a significantly faster and more efficient bike. The Jones is much more capable in the rocky/tech terrain as well.

As for comfort, with the low bb of the Jones and the higher handlebar position I find it much more worthy of long distance rides.

I never really found my Pug all that comfortable for long rides.


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

Yesterday's ride. I put my Brooks b17 on the Jones but otherwise it's set up the same as in bikepacking mode. Just a little lighter and faster without the camping gear.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Jeff Stevens said:


> I have a Pug and I would say it's dramatically different then the Jones Plus. Considering my Pug and Jones weight pretty much the same and have the same drivetrain, the Jones is a significantly faster and more efficient bike. The Jones is much more capable in the rocky/tech terrain as well.
> 
> As for comfort, with the low bb of the Jones and the higher handlebar position I find it much more worthy of long distance rides.
> 
> I never really found my Pug all that comfortable for long rides.


Interesting. I tried a Jones [not the Plus] and owned a Pugs.

Liked the Pugs better and found it very comfortable for 10hrs or so a day in the saddle.

Haven't tried the Jones Plus and probably won't get a shot as they are so rare.

Considered going 29+ with the Pugs, but wanted "normal" wheels so built up a Krampus instead.


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

vikb said:


> Interesting. I tried a Jones [not the Plus] and owned a Pugs.
> 
> Liked the Pugs better and found it very comfortable for 10hrs or so a day in the saddle.
> 
> ...


I should clarify that the fit of the Pug might be mostly an issue for me. I have very long legs proportional to my height and a herniated disc in my lower back in the past. So for me the med Pug has a ton of seat post sticking out and 3" of headset spacers or when I ride a large I'm very stretched out and I get an achy back. It's a fit challenge that I have had with all of my Surly's (1x1, Big Dummy, Krampus, Pug & Pacer).

The Jones works very well for my fit issues.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Jeff Stevens said:


> View attachment 987338
> 
> 
> Yesterday's ride. I put my Brooks b17 on the Jones but otherwise it's set up the same as in bikepacking mode. Just a little lighter and faster without the camping gear.


How do you like the 24" frame? I was afraid it would be too small for me. Ive been happy with the 25".


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

The 24" fits me great. My LBS didn't get a 25" for demo so I couldn't compare, but based on the blog post on the Jones website, I think the standover on the 25" might be pushing it for me. I'm about 5'11". I have my 24 set up with about 30mm of spacers above the truss fork and a 70mm stem and it's perfect. I should probably be on a non setback post but my Erkisen Ti post is a setback so I'm using that for now because it's so compliant.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Jeff Stevens said:


> I should probably be on a non setback post but my Erkisen Ti post is a setback so I'm using that for now because it's so compliant.


I have the Brooks/Eriksen combo on mine now and love it.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

SeaBass, how does the Jones compare to your SIR9?

I feel like I'm stalking you in bikes: I've had a SIR, Krampus, and now a Mukluk. Among others.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> SeaBass, how does the Jones compare to your SIR9?
> 
> I feel like I'm stalking you in bikes: I've had a SIR, Krampus, and now a Mukluk. Among others.


Now if you tell me you had a Trek 69er or Gary Fisher Sugar I'll be really freaked out!
The SIR was my first "real" 29er SS but its been four years since I had it. I remember it being very stable and having a nice steel ride but it didn't handle switchbacks well. I had it built up at about 22 lbs with a Niner fork and Flow's.


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Well, I briefly had a Sugar 29er, until it cracked... no Trek 69er, though!



SeaBass_ said:


> Now if you tell me you had a Trek 69er or Gary Fisher Sugar I'll be really freaked out!
> The SIR was my first "real" 29er SS but its been four years since I had it. I remember it being very stable and having a nice steel ride but it didn't handle switchbacks well. I had it built up at about 22 lbs with a Niner fork and Flow's.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

SeaBass_ said:


> So my wife, who's not the most observant when it comes to my bikes, just saw me pedaling the Jones Plus around in the street with my 5 yr old daughter and asked "Is that another one of your bikes you scavenged from the garbage??"


Oh. My.


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## SteveM (Jan 13, 2004)

for information, the rack bolt holes on the seat stays fit a bottle cage perfectly


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

SteveM said:


> for information, the rack bolt holes on the seat stays fit a bottle cage perfectly


I noticed that too, but it points the bottles at an odd angle. I was already sizing up an adapter that would position the bottle vertical.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Jeff Stevens said:


> I noticed that too, but it points the bottles at an odd angle. I was already sizing up an adapter that would position the bottle vertical.


Hi
Vertical drink bottle's are ok on the road but come out when riding offroad at speed.
Having the bottle's angled helps the bottles stay.


----------



## SteveM (Jan 13, 2004)

velcro


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SteveM said:


> velcro


So true Steve


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

Three more hours of seat time on the MOCO Epic 25 mile loop and I'm really getting it dialed in. I flipped the stem to bring the bars up a little higher but angled them a little more, feels better on steep downs, but I'll probably play with the stack height over the next few rides. Otherwise it's just about perfect.

I have lost faith that the TRP brakes will ever be strong enough to stop this beast. I had a moment that really made me pucker my... Fortunately the bike just stuck it. I thought about going to 200mm/180mm rotors and getting more aggressive pads but now I'm thinking about Magura MT5 4 pistons. Seems like a good deal for a ton of breaking power.

I really notice how freakin stable this thing is at very low speeds. I'm not a great track stand person, but I really seem to be able to get through the low speed tech stuff without any issues. The geo of this bike really works well for me. It's going to be hard to ever throw a leg over my Pug again.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I got a couple hours in the saddle yesterday and realized again just how much I like this bike. From slow to fast to smooth to gnar, it handles it all with aplomb.
Jeff, I'm running BB7's with 203/160 combo and after a brief bedding process, she stops fine for me now. I'm 230 geared up.


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

Itching to take mine for its first ride. Just need to get the front wheel finished and decide if I'm going to run it geared or singlespeed


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

I've finally got a couple of rides under my belt on my shiny Blue Plus (25"). I can happily say that it handles exactly how I hoped it would.

I've been riding a 29+ front Stooge for most of winter and while I loved the 29+ upfront it shared a handling trait I remember from when I had a Yelli Screamy. Short chain stayed poppy fun but on crazyily fast downhills they are scarily sketchy and every little bump tries to throw you off. The Jones Plus has none of that. Sharing the long geometry of many FS trail bikes, the Plus is super stable and smooth at these speeds while giving up very little in the handling stakes. It takes an hour or so to get used to the long front but once dialled in it handles tight, twisty single track really well. The long chain stays only showing their downside when you want to manual or pop off every little trail feature. It's not that you can't get air, it's that airing of every little bump isn't going to happen without more effort or speed. In the air - stable, landing smooth.

This bike wants to go fast. Not in the way an XC bike does, that urges you to go faster, but when the going gets rough it tries to kill you. The Jones Plus wants fast but inspires with confidence.



SeaBass_ said:


> From slow to fast to smooth to gnar, it handles it all with aplomb.


Agreed

However, as an ardent single-speeder I think that for single track I'm going to run this bike with gears. It's hard to find a single gear that lets you power this bike up climbs (mine weighs a not unreasonable 28.5lbs with dropper and Chronicles) yet find all the speed that the bike wants on the downs. Next ride 1x10. If I was heading out for all day long distance cruising I'd happily stay single speed.

Oh, and at 6' 4" I can safely say the 25" is the perfect fit. I umm'ed and arr'ed between the two sizes but an glad I went bigger


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## vemeno (Nov 27, 2010)

martin_uk said:


> I've finally got a couple of rides under my belt on my shiny Blue Plus (25"). I can happily say that it handles exactly how I hoped it would.
> 
> I've been riding a 29+ front Stooge for most of winter and while I loved the 29+ upfront it shared a handling trait I remember from when I had a Yelli Screamy. Short chain stayed poppy fun but on crazyily fast downhills they are scarily sketchy and every little bump tries to throw you off. The Jones Plus has none of that. Sharing the long geometry of many FS trail bikes, the Plus is super stable and smooth at these speeds while giving up very little in the handling stakes. It takes an hour or so to get used to the long front but once dialled in it handles tight, twisty single track really well. The long chain stays only showing their downside when you want to manual or pop off every little trail feature. It's not that you can't get air, it's that airing of every little bump isn't going to happen without more effort or speed. In the air - stable, landing smooth.


Now that is a comparison I've been waiting for! Really interested in your thoughts on the differences between the two bikes. Seems like you prefer Jones.. Do you see your new Jones replacing the Stooge for all types of riding? At your height maybe the Stooge is to small for you? Or maybe those super short chainstays are not that important after all..  
These two are at the top of my list for next purchase (along with genesis longitude) or I might go custom and combine the two.. Will PM you for details if you don't mind.


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

i rode a Ti 29+ the other day at Evergreen MTB Festival and I was legitimately blown away by how well it handled and what an absolute blast of a ride it was. On a trail I regularly ride on my Stumpjumper 2014 FSR Comp, I was faster on the downhill with the Jones 29+ Ti than I was on the Stumpy, and I was substantially faster on ascents.

obviously it doesn't handle air as well as a FSR but on twisty, flowy singletrack, especially with roots and rocks, it performs like a beast, and the Ti one was a lightweight beast with heavyweight ability


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## joop (Dec 11, 2006)

Are you saying there was a full plus Jones in ti there? Prototype?


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## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

yeah, pretty sure. I know it was a Ti and the tire looked way larger than a standard and had ridiculous traction


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

I am definitely on (or maybe over) the upper limits of Stooge sizing but most of the time it wasn't an issue. 

In my view the design intentions of the two bikes are very different. The Stooge was designed to be a fun, rigid 29er that uses a 29+ tire to compensate for the the rigid fork and it does it very well. The problem I had with this is that the 29+ up front encourages higher speeds and that short chain stay bikes (well the two I've had) feel less stable at these speeds. The J+ plays to the strengths of 29+ - smoothness and stability - without sacrificing handling giving me more confidence to go even faster on the downhills. What it does sacrifice is that poppiness that short chain stays deliver. Something the Stooge (and I expect the Stache) have in abundance.

The Jones Plus delivers what I wanted from 29+ but without the Stooge I wouldn't have known that I wanted it.

No problems with a PM


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

Had an interesting issue when I put some gears on. I was installing 1x10 with a Wolf Tooth 42t at the back and a 32t at the front. A standard KMC chain with no links removed was too short to allow me to change into the lowest gear! Switched the 42 for a 40 and all is good.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

martin_uk said:


> Had an interesting issue when I put some gears on. I was installing 1x10 with a Wolf Tooth 42t at the back and a 32t at the front. A standard KMC chain with no links removed was too short to allow me to change into the lowest gear! Switched the 42 for a 40 and all is good.


I guess loooong stays, a BIG cog, and a 32t ring result in a really long chain! You could also run a smaller 30t ring if you want the lower gears back. Or find someone who took a couple of links off the same chain.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Just got my 3rd Rohloff to use on my Jones Plus. 
Why? Because I'm building it up for the upcoming *Tour Aotearoa* we sometimes have mud, plus the first 80kms is down the 90 mile beach! that's a good lot of sand 

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Just got my 3rd Rohloff to use on my Jones Plus.
> Why? Because I'm building it up for the upcoming *Tour Aotearoa* we sometimes have mud, plus the first 80kms is down the 90 mile beach! that's a good lot of sand
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


Geez, what does that wheel weigh fully assembled? Sounds like a cool Tour!


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

NZPeterG said:


> Just got my 3rd Rohloff to use on my Jones Plus.
> Why? Because I'm building it up for the upcoming *Tour Aotearoa* we sometimes have mud, plus the first 80kms is down the 90 mile beach! that's a good lot of sand
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


I'm Jealous. Congrats!

I think it's really great that Jeff utilized normal rear dropouts for the Plus, instead of going to a thru-axle setup like the newest Ti Spaceframes use, just for the reason of Rohloff compatibility. I have a feeling I'll eventually want to trade my Spaceframe for a Plus/Rohloff at some point, and need to keep an eye on things and do so before the dropouts change.


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

NZPeterG said:


> Just got my 3rd Rohloff to use on my Jones Plus.
> Why? Because I'm building it up for the upcoming *Tour Aotearoa* we sometimes have mud, plus the first 80kms is down the 90 mile beach! that's a good lot of sand
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


Lovely!
did you get the CC or the TS version?
By the way, some lazy question here, what is the seatpost size of the Jones+?
TIA,


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Bullit_cn said:


> Lovely!
> did you get the CC or the TS version?
> By the way, some lazy question here, what is the seatpost size of the Jones+?
> TIA,


Hi I got a CC version, the best thing about a Rohloff hub is that you can ran a QR
My 1st Rohloff was a TS and this was why I sold it after 7 years.
Sold it for more then a new one 

Seatpost size is as listed by Jeff is a 27.2mm

:eekster:


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

I went from the black Jones plus to the blue one in a matter of few weeks. Sold the black to a fellow rider, so went ahead with the blue. From stealth to bubble gum Gulf racing theme.

So now I have the 29 and 29+...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Why the switch? Personally, I like the stealth black better, but I would take either one!


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

So how does the Plus compare to the regular Jones?


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

I'm not sure myself there but since my friend wants to buy from me, he coming from a Krampus, I just decided to sell and just do a some sort of Gulf racing theme with the blue.

As long as I can help add one more rider to ride Jones I am happy.


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> So how does the Plus compare to the regular Jones?


It's hard to compare like for like since one is heavy with gears while the other is light and single. For nimbleness guess the SF felt more nimble since it's shorter and can turn without a big angle but at the same time the plus is nimble too in tight singletrail turns albeit you need a slightly outer angle to turn.

Climbing is hard to compare since one can use multiple gears while the other is just pure mashing but just maybe the plus felt more stable, same as going down the plus definitely feels more stable due to the long wb.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

mojak said:


> It's hard to compare like for like since one is heavy with gears while the other is light and single. For nimbleness guess the SF felt more nimble since it's shorter and can turn without a big angle but at the same time the plus is nimble too in tight singletrail turns albeit you need a slightly outer angle to turn.
> 
> Climbing is hard to compare since one can use multiple gears while the other is just pure mashing but just maybe the plus felt more stable, same as going down the plus definitely feels more stable due to the long wb.


The Plus has loads more stability and momentum. It's smoother too. I love the light and racey feeling of my Ti SF but when the going gets steep (down) or rough that's when I want the Plus. The SF makes a better SS too. I'm finding it harder to settle on the right ratio with the Plus.


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

martin_uk said:


> The Plus has loads more stability and momentum. It's smoother too. I love the light and racey feeling of my Ti SF but when the going gets steep (down) or rough that's when I want the Plus. The SF makes a better SS too. I'm finding it harder to settle on the right ratio with the Plus.


And the SF manuals and launches off stuff much easier


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## Clink (Oct 29, 2006)

martin_uk said:


> And the SF manuals and launches off stuff much easier


Martin what's the Plus like in tight, technical singletrackworld? I'm after a 29 plus to compliment my Stooge and looking at the Krampus and, if I can get past the £££, the Jones Plus.


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

Clink said:


> Martin what's the Plus like in tight, technical singletrackworld? I'm after a 29 plus to compliment my Stooge and looking at the Krampus and, if I can get past the £££, the Jones Plus.


 I haven't yet found anywhere that I think "I'd have cleared that if only the bike were shorter" though there have been occasions were my rear wheel ended up not quite where I'd expected.

The Plus is a lot more agile than you expect from the numbers. After a short adjustment time I find no issues at all at low speed. Not as nimble as the SF but Im sure some of that is the extra drag and weight of the Chronicle. At high speed I'm still learning, the problem isn't the bike, it's the momentum.

Not sure what you'd be looking for in a complementary bike?


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

Spent the day riding the Elizabeth Furnace area near Front Royal VA. I had a moment on a rocky faster section of the Massanutten Trail smashing the front wheel into a tombstone rock. On my FS29er I would have flown over the bars, but on the Jones Plus I just came to a hard stop. Only after I started riding again that I realized how awesome it was that I wasn't picking myself up off of a pile of rocks. Having that kind of confidence in my bike really lets me focus on having fun, especially when I'm tired and more prone to making mistakes.

With the new 200mm/180mm rotor combo I'm much happier with the braking performance. The next upgrade will be to 165mm cranks (170's are on it now).


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Yeah, they are beasts for sure! Why the 165s? You getting a lot of strikes with the 170s?


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

SeaBass_ said:


> Yeah, they are beasts for sure! Why the 165s? You getting a lot of strikes with the 170s?


Jeff recommends 165's and I noticed the switch from 175's to 170's for this build (my Krampus had 175's) has helped my knee pain post riding, significantly. Since I'm running Mr. Whirly's, all I need to do is buy the crank arms, so I figure it's worth the try to see if it's even better. I run my BB at the 6 o'clock position and while I do get rock strikes, it's not that bad and I prefer the stability of the lower BB.


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

SeaBass,

Could you comment on rigidity or how smooth the Jones Plus feels compared to your Krampus?

I owned an ECR with 710 Jones bars and it always felt really stiff when it came to rough surfaces. I currently own a Krampus with wide riser bars and was running it with an MRP stage 130. Found that the suspension fork allowed me to get too aggressive for what the frame was designed for. Installed the stock rigid fork and it seems to fit the character of the Krampus better. I simply slow down when things get too rough at speed. 

In rigid mode, I have found the Krampus is a smoother riding bike vs. the ECR. The rigid front fork also resists deflection under braking much better. I am guessing the Jones Plus is better in both of those area's than the Krampus?

Thanks,
Bubba.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

bubba13 said:


> SeaBass,
> 
> Could you comment on rigidity or how smooth the Jones Plus feels compared to your Krampus?
> 
> ...


I would have to say the Jones is the most comfortable capable rigid bike I've owned. It doesn't get bumped off line easily with the truss fork and 142mm thru axle front hub. Its more of an "In the Bike" position riding rather than the "On the Bike" position of the Krampy. I've really taken to the Jones Bars. The Krampy's front end was definitely easier to loft. Due to it's sheer size one wouldn't think the Jones capable of carving the way it does and it's surprising nimble to boot. It's just a blast to ride!


----------



## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

Anyone have any issues with tire rub on bontrager chupacabra's? I noticed while I was cleaning / lubing up the other day when I shifted to the lowest gear combo during parts of the rear wheel rotation it rubs. 

I'm on Dually rims, with a surly OD 39/26, and XT 11-36 casette. I apologize ahead of time I am not very mechanically inclined.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Surprised you're rubbing with 35mm (?) duallies. Do you have the 2.5mm spacer installed on the drive side?


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## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

45mm duallies. Your second question I'm going to have to apologize I don't know anything about a spacer. It was put together by my bike shop. Is this a spacer that would be placed on the surly od ?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes on the right side of BB

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Look for the spacer in the picture to be on the drive side of the bottom bracket, between the bottom bracket shell and the bottom bracket cup.

http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/OD_Crank_Inststructions.pdf


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## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

So instead of me trying to explain what I see I took a few pictures
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7g8byxgU_RLeVpIUXlTUFRVTHM&usp=sharing

Let me know if I need to get a better angle or if you can that there is or isn't a spacer.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Looks like the spacer is on the left side. Needs changing to the right hand side. 
Happy Riding 😎

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Looks like the spacer is on the left side. Needs changing to the right hand side.
> Happy Riding 😎
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


Yup. That moved your crank inboard which is causing the rubbing. Print out the instructions in the link I posted. Bring it back to your LBS, they should fix their mistake at no charge.


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## branwell (May 14, 2014)

Hi, I am enjoying reading your posts and interesting to hear of other Jones Plus owners. I have a black 25" frameset on order and am planning on setting it up as 2x10. I am planning on using the surly OD crankset with Shimano front and rear derailleurs. Can anyone advise what front derailleur they use and what method of attachment to the frame do you use? is a Problem Solvers Adapter required - similar to that used on the Krampus? thanks.


----------



## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

branwell said:


> Hi, I am enjoying reading your posts and interesting to hear of other Jones Plus owners. I have a black 25" frameset on order and am planning on setting it up as 2x10. I am planning on using the surly OD crankset with Shimano front and rear derailleurs. Can anyone advise what front derailleur they use and what method of attachment to the frame do you use? is a Problem Solvers Adapter required - similar to that used on the Krampus? thanks.


I have a similar setup (XT 2x10 with the OD cranks) and use a standard (i.e. frame clamp) XT top swing bottom pull front derailleur. I think the instructions I got from Jeff say that either top or bottom swing would work on a Plus, tyre clearance is not an issue on this bike unlike the Spaceframe.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

*A Last*

Well I have had my *Jones Plus* frameset for a few months and have been waiting on a pair of WTB Scraper rims (NZ wholesaler been waiting on WTB supplying some to NZ).
So today they came in the post to work, :thumbsup: Have my hubs waiting and just need the spokes to come how (Out of stock, but will be in stock in a few days) 
So my *Plus* may be one of only a few to be running a Rohloff Speedhub  
Why?
Because i'm riding in the Tour Aotearoa 2016 and we do have a little Mud in places etc.
Maybe a busy weekend :eekster:

Kiwi Pete :thumbsup:


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

just ordered mine today. will be using a Rohloff and Scrapers as well. why? going on a world tour starting next may.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Cool 

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Well at last I have the rims and have started building up my wheels 










Kiwi Pete from the road


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## branwell (May 14, 2014)

morphosity said:


> I have a similar setup (XT 2x10 with the OD cranks) and use a standard (i.e. frame clamp) XT top swing bottom pull front derailleur. I think the instructions I got from Jeff say that either top or bottom swing would work on a Plus, tyre clearance is not an issue on this bike unlike the Spaceframe.


My Jones Plus frameset has now arrived and slowly working through the build. Truss fork is on and looking good.
I am going to use the Surly OD crank having seen that most of Jeff's builds use this set up and I just realised that it is 73mm but the Bushnell EBB is 68mm, giving a bit of sideways slack. Presumably adding 5mm of spacers solves this? The OD crank already has a 2.5mm spacer on the driveside as standard and as per Surly instructions. 
Can anyone else with the OD crankset fitted advise how this is set up please?

thanks in advance guys.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Well yesterday was wheel building day for me.
Build up the pair, like the new WTB Scraper rim tape, it's how 50mm wide for a better seal.
Fitted with tyres (tubeless)
 









Kiwi Pete from the road


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I would call Jeff directly.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

branwell said:


> My Jones Plus frameset has now arrived and slowly working through the build. Truss fork is on and looking good.
> I am going to use the Surly OD crank having seen that most of Jeff's builds use this set up and I just realised that it is 73mm but the Bushnell EBB is 68mm, giving a bit of sideways slack. Presumably adding 5mm of spacers solves this? The OD crank already has a 2.5mm spacer on the driveside as standard and as per Surly instructions.
> Can anyone else with the OD crankset fitted advise how this is set up please?
> 
> thanks in advance guys.


Hi
All most all mountain bike cranksets are for 73mm BB's. 
So how do you run a 73mm BB on a bike with 68mm BB?
You put one 2.5mm spacer on the left side (non-drive side) and 2x 2.5mm spaces on the right side (drive side)
I hope this helps you.

How thats $5.00 thanks 

Time to do some more work on my Jones Plus 

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Kiwi Pete. Could you take a pic of your non drve side rear hub and chainstay? I want to see how you used the torque arm for the Rohloff. My frame has been shipped!
Thanks
Harry


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Harryonaspot said:


> Kiwi Pete. Could you take a pic of your non drve side rear hub and chainstay? I want to see how you used the torque arm for the Rohloff. My frame has been shipped!
> Thanks
> Harry


Haha
I'm going to be running a Monkey bone brake mount until the new 2016 Rohloff mounts come out.
Watch will make a better setup. 
The way I have it is a no no with Rohloff! But ok.
I have been running Rohloff gear hubs for over 10 years how 

I'll post a photo in a day or two. ..

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## branwell (May 14, 2014)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi
> All most all mountain bike cranksets are for 73mm BB's.
> So how do you run a 73mm BB on a bike with 68mm BB?
> You put one 2.5mm spacer on the left side (non-drive side) and 2x 2.5mm spaces on the right side (drive side)
> ...


Pete, thank you for this info. This is the final step in my build and am looking forward to completing and getting out on it. I hope to post some images of the bike when complete.

John (aka Branwell)


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

branwell said:


> Pete, thank you for this info. This is the final step in my build and am looking forward to completing and getting out on it. I hope to post some images of the bike when complete.
> 
> John (aka Branwell)


Hi John
O here I just had my Jones outside and photo the Rohloff/frame setup










Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Cool! Why is that not a good solution? Why would you replace it? Looks legit from the little I can see


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Harryonaspot said:


> Cool! Why is that not a good solution? Why would you replace it? Looks legit from the little I can see


Hi
It's in front of the axle which can let the axle move down out of the frame in a low gear going up a big hill.

Rohloff have a few new mounts coming out for 2016 and I can make one work for me.



Kiwi Pete from the road


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi All
A quick update, no brakes but looking like a bike at last 












Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Steel29er (Jul 1, 2008)

Love the build, stunning.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

1st Ride to work  
At last 










Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Arrived Friday. Built it up as a ss til my Rohloff rear wheel gets laced. Feels good so far. Using the second stem as a giant headset spacer til I decide where to cut the steerer tube


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> 1st Ride to work
> At last
> 
> [URL]http://images.tapatalk[/URL]
> ...


----------



## sbruton7 (Aug 8, 2011)

Kiwi Pete, which of the new Rohloff mounts will work with the inboard disc mounts on the Jones Plus? I have a Rohloff TS DB that I have been trying to decide what to do with. I have a regular Jones diamond frame with an Alfine 11, but it is a bit small for me. So, I have been thinking about the 25" Plus, but the inability to use the Rohloff with the inboard discs has stopped me.



NZPeterG said:


> Haha
> I'm going to be running a Monkey bone brake mount until the new 2016 Rohloff mounts come out.
> Watch will make a better setup.
> The way I have it is a no no with Rohloff! But ok.


----------



## davefj40 (Sep 18, 2008)

what did you guys use for headset spacers?


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SeaBass_ said:


> Nice Pete! Any way you can shorten that Rear Brake/Shifter cable housing?


Hi Seabass
Can you see the rear brake cable?
Can I shorten the shifter (_Rohloff_) cable's yes, Will I?
Sorry No!
Why?
Because I have build my Jones for Bikepacking, and the cables around my front Bag.....

Also with the cables routed right (a nice curve) it will shift far better 

*Note:* We in New Zealand run our brakes the right way around! Front Right, Rear Left........ *Like ALL Motorcycles*

*STOP*

_Do Not say it... Move on and go for a ride_ :nono:

*Kiwi Pete*


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

sbruton7 said:


> Kiwi Pete, which of the new Rohloff mounts will work with the inboard disc mounts on the Jones Plus? I have a Rohloff TS DB that I have been trying to decide what to do with. I have a regular Jones diamond frame with an Alfine 11, but it is a bit small for me. So, I have been thinking about the 25" Plus, but the inability to use the Rohloff with the inboard discs has stopped me.


Hi 
Here is a photo










So as you can see I have a Monkey bone (180mm) (brake mount).
With that I have a A OEM2 axleplate.

With your TS Rohloff hub you need a TS OEM2 axleplate.

Why did you get a TS Rohloff hub? 
My 1st Rohloff (over 10 years ago) was a TS but my last one and this one is a QR hub.

*Note:* i'm waiting on the 2016 PM Brake Bone coming later this year.
Why?
Because the OEM2 to PM Brake Bone will have the OEM2 pointing to the back of the bike as per the right way to run a Rohloff hub.... Wait and See 

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

davefj40 said:


> what did you guys use for headset spacers?


Hi Davefj40
I run Wheels Manufacturing Inc
Because they have size's from 1.5mm and up

Wheels Manufacturing Black Aluminum Headset Spacers

Have Fun Riding

*Kiwi Pete*


----------



## davefj40 (Sep 18, 2008)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi Davefj40
> I run Wheels Manufacturing Inc
> Because they have size's from 1.5mm and up
> 
> ...


Was wondering what size spacer in top and bottom on truss fork.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

davefj40 said:


> Was wondering what size spacer in top and bottom on truss fork.


Hi Davefj40
It's up to the fit in the space you have?
Which headset etc.
If you can not work it out phone Jeff

All the best

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi Seabass
> Can you see the rear brake cable?
> Can I shorten the shifter (_Rohloff_) cable's yes, Will I?
> Sorry No!
> ...


Understood!
I don't know how the front brake came to be reversed here in the States. Luckily I've acclimated myself to deal with it whether on the motorcycle or bicycle.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

A quick update on photos



















Loving the ride so far, thanks Jeff 


Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Little bit about which side the brakes are on from Sheldon Browne:



> Which Brake Which Side?
> 
> There is considerable disagreement as to which brake should be connected to which lever:
> Some cyclists say it is best to have the stronger right hand (presuming a right-handed cyclist) operate the rear brake.
> ...


That is from this page:
Braking and Turning Your Bicycle


----------



## bjsp123 (Sep 12, 2015)

*Tall riders?*



martin_uk said:


> Oh, and at 6' 4" I can safely say the 25" is the perfect fit. I umm'ed and arr'ed between the two sizes but an glad I went bigger


I'm 6' 6" and I'm in two minds about whether the Jones plus 25 is likely to be long enough for me. I'm riding longish days along mucky but flattish terrain with a fair bit of tarmac, I'm not doing any technical stuff, so I like to be pretty stretched out.

Any thoughts on whether that's possible on the Jones? Probably would try and fit dirt drops rather than the H-bar, so as to get further forward.

To me the 29+ represents a chance to get a bike that's really big enough... love the Jones but would hate to wind up with a huge bike that still makes me feel too upright.


----------



## dilutedq (Nov 30, 2014)

anyone in here have any issues with hitch racks (not the top tube ones) and the jones plus? Even specifically the 25 if possible? I'm getting tired of shoving this thing in my car. 

I'm wanting to get something like the 1upUSA rack. It has a claim of supporting a wheelbase of 52in (axle to axle). According to jeff on his blog the 25 has a wheelbase of 47.44 for the 25. 

This would seem to answer my question but I just want to make sure they are both kind of speaking the same language. I've watched some videos and some bikes that have a definite smaller wheelbase look to already hit from end to end.


----------



## torosc (Aug 17, 2008)

dilutedq said:


> anyone in here have any issues with hitch racks (not the top tube ones) and the jones plus? Even specifically the 25 if possible? I'm getting tired of shoving this thing in my car.
> 
> I'm wanting to get something like the 1upUSA rack. It has a claim of supporting a wheelbase of 52in (axle to axle). According to jeff on his blog the 25 has a wheelbase of 47.44 for the 25.
> 
> This would seem to answer my question but I just want to make sure they are both kind of speaking the same language. I've watched some videos and some bikes that have a definite smaller wheelbase look to already hit from end to end.


Not sure about the measurements, but the 25 with Chupacabras on Scrapers fit perfectly on the 1upUSA. The wheelbase is not an issue at all, and the tires fit just barely, but without any squeezing.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

bjsp123 said:


> I'm 6' 6" and I'm in two minds about whether the Jones plus 25 is likely to be long enough for me. I'm riding longish days along mucky but flattish terrain with a fair bit of tarmac, I'm not doing any technical stuff, so I like to be pretty stretched out.
> 
> Any thoughts on whether that's possible on the Jones? Probably would try and fit dirt drops rather than the H-bar, so as to get further forward.
> 
> To me the 29+ represents a chance to get a bike that's really big enough... love the Jones but would hate to wind up with a huge bike that still makes me feel too upright.


Hi
Phone up Jeff and ask him.
Jeff is a great help about how a Jones Plus fits.
He asked me a lot about my setup, how I like to ride and the numbers off my old bike.
Then Jeff set up one of his bikes to my fit and sent me photo's to show this to me which was a great help to me (thanks Jeff)
All the best 

_Kiwi Pete_ :idea:


----------



## Ondamat (Sep 17, 2014)

Great thread all, I'm sipping single malt and admiring the very nice builds!

I have a few questions. I'm tossing up between the Krampus and the Jones Plus, being in Australia, I've ridden the Krampus and don't have access to a Plus to test but I'm sold on 29+ as a platform. I guess before I pull the trigger on a Krampus, I'd like to sound out the opinions of the Jone's crew.

I'm planning a Rohloff build to be used for bike packing and fairly technical single track riding.

The few questions I have about the Jones Plus are,

1) BB height. Has it affected anyone on gnarly, rocky trails? I ride some fairly rocky stuff so prefer a higher BB like the one the Krampus offers so I can pedal through rock gardens. Does the EBB provide enough flexibility in this regard?

2) Is it true that no dynamo hub is compatible for the Plus? For bike packing, especially in Australia, power generation on the run is very attractive. I know I can always throw a usb charger in the ample frame bag real estate the Plus offers but a dynamo hub would be nice on daily commuting duties or way out in the bush.

3) Cost. Kiwi Pete can probably sympathise as our currencies have taken a beating lately, if you're happy to share Kiwi Pete, what was the ball park figure on a Rohloff plus? By my figuring, it'd run about a grand more than a Rohloff Krampus. I'd be happy to spend that to support a small operation like Jeff's, especially given the widespread accolades he gets from his army of happy customers.

Thanks all,

ODM.

PS, Kiwi Pete, have you ever thought about coming across the ditch for this? cloudride

I know I'd love to the the Tour Aotearoa (although slowly so I can soak in the landscape and the beer!)


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Ondamat said:


> Great thread all, I'm sipping single malt and admiring the very nice builds!
> 
> I have a few questions. I'm tossing up between the Krampus and the Jones Plus, being in Australia, I've ridden the Krampus and don't have access to a Plus to test but I'm sold on 29+ as a platform. I guess before I pull the trigger on a Krampus, I'd like to sound out the opinions of the Jone's crew.
> 
> ...


Hi
My Jones Plus frameset cost me about $3000 NZ landed to my door, with NZ taxes etc.
Rohloff price in NZ is the lowest in the world. $1450 NZ
Full build cost? tryed not to count it up!

BB with the EBB in the low placement is great, if you need more just turn it up.

Yes I have seen about the Cloudride I have the Tour Aotearoa to ride first.

Is started the NZ Facebook group "Bikepacking New Zealand"

The Jones is a better bike then a Surly.

Have fun riding 

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Wait. What are these 29x3.25 tires doing in a Spaceframe:

Singletrack Magazine | Interbike 2015: Jeff Jones brings the Gnarwhal

Edit: ah, now that I actually read the article, looks like he's coming out with a Plus Spaceframe.


----------



## Ondamat (Sep 17, 2014)

Mr Jones now has a Ti version of the Plus. I mean come on, some of us wanna stay married!

Jeff Jones: Unintentional Home Wrecker.


__
http://instagr.am/p/7x0AOywUqs/


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

This discussion needs photographs:








(Jones Instagram)








(singletracks)

A couple of thougths:

1) Assuming this new "Plus-Minus" spaceframe follows the sizing of the other Plus models, that should make this equivalent, fit-wise, to about a 22" or 21" version of the 29, right? Seems to me that this will fit quite a few wives. So it could actually be a marriage SAVER! I, for one, am tired of swapping seatposts and stems every damn weekend so that my wife can "borrow" my 29 spaceframe. Retirement savings wrecker, perhaps.

2) Interesting that Jeff is putting so much energy into the long-chainstay Plus platform, and offering production models for both taller AND shorter riders... when all the begging and whining in the world hasn't gotten him to do that with the regular 29 models. Either he feels that the Plus is going in such a superior direction that he wants to focus on this, or the other Plus models have been such good sellers that he is finally caving to market demand a bit more. I still hope that the other Plus sizes might become available as Spaceframes and that the 29 becomes available in smaller and larger sizes, though.

3) I wonder if the truss fork for this new 23" Plus Minus spaceframe would be compatible with an existing 23" 29 frame! If so, it could really be useful. I've been experimenting with plus-sizing my spaceframe recently, to both positive and negative effect:









I put a 29 x 3" Fat-B-Nimble on the rear, and it is such a phenomenal improvement that I don't think I could go back to the 2.4". On the other hand, it was so much taller than my Big Fat Larry front that it messed with the steering and made it too quick for my tastes. So I just got a Knard 4.8 which properly matches the height of the rear, but now I've increased the trail so much that the steering has gone the other direction and is starting to feel like a typical fat bike. Assuming the new fork fits and has more offset, perhaps it could correct things?!


----------



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> The Jones is a better bike then a Surly.


I've had both and can attest for that.


----------



## Ondamat (Sep 17, 2014)

This all sounds excellent. If only Jeff could come up with a dynamo hub it would be the perfect bike packing rig. I guess USB chargers are the only way to go!


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Ondamat said:


> This all sounds excellent. If only Jeff could come up with a dynamo hub it would be the perfect bike packing rig. I guess USB chargers are the only way to go!


Hi Yes
I'm still looking in to a Dynamo hub but starting to think i'll stick with a none dynamo hub?
Because years ago I had a 2 speed Mountain Unicycle hub and after a UPD (Un Planned Dismount) crossing a puddle! wheel hub bearings seized
Had to unbuild my wheel and sent it off to Europe!

With a standard hub it's just a quick replacement of a few bearings
the cost of the Hub would buy a load of battreys for the Tour Aotearoa.

Having fun riding my Jones Plus 

Kiwi Pete
:eekster:


----------



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I'd like to get a hold of a Ti fork for the Plus!


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Ondamat said:


> This all sounds excellent. If only Jeff could come up with a dynamo hub it would be the perfect bike packing rig. I guess USB chargers are the only way to go!


Schmidt is coming out with a 150mm thru-axle version this month - at least for the North American market, through Peter White Cycles. Check it out here. Scroll down to "SON 28 15 150mm":

Bicycle Lights and Generators

I'd think that you could modify or change the end caps to work with the 142mm Jones fork. Peter could advise. If not possible quite yet, then its likely just a matter of time until Schmidt and/or Peter offers what you need. They seem to keep up with and support just about every new dropout standard that comes along, regardless of whether its good (135mm front-specific), annoying (Bluto 150mm thru-axle) or stupid (110mm Boost).

Please report back if you figure something out.


----------



## guttmjo (May 10, 2005)

Are the new Jones Plus framesets boost spaced in the rear only?
That's how I'm reading this:
Singletrack Magazine | Interbike 2015: Jeff Jones brings the Gnarwhal
I assume after tooling up for his 142TA hubs and forks, Jeff isn't interested in compromising the front for Boost compatibility. If the Schimdt 150 dyno can work with 142TA, will it make a less strong wheel than Jeff's hub?


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

guttmjo said:


> Are the new Jones Plus framesets boost spaced in the rear only?
> That's how I'm reading this:
> Singletrack Magazine | Interbike 2015: Jeff Jones brings the Gnarwhal
> I assume after tooling up for his 142TA hubs and forks, Jeff isn't interested in compromising the front for Boost compatibility. If the Schimdt 150 dyno can work with 142TA, will it make a less strong wheel than Jeff's hub?


I haven't seen any confirmation. On the Jones Facebook page there is a mention to watch his blog because he's going to release specifics soon.


----------



## guttmjo (May 10, 2005)

and here it is Jones Bikes ? Our new products at Interbike
I should have waited 15 minutes before I asked.
I'm still wondering about dyno hub options and compromises,


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

I really want a hub dynamo as well. I just looked at the Schmidt 150. I wonder if turning down the hub ends would foul up the spacing for the front brake. I really want to do this, but not sure if I want to be the guinea pig!


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Man, even though I'm near 6'0 tall, I'd like to take a spin on that new 23 Plus Spaceframe.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

An interesting alternative to a hub dynamo might be the Velological rim dynamo. Made in Germany. Not cheap. But nothing is.


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Schmidt makes so many versions of their hub it seems at some point they'll make a 142mm 15mm thru axle hub. They are already making a boost version, and they've been making the quick release fat bike front hubs for quite a while with both front and rear disc spacing. I would get in touch with Peter White and have him ask Schmidt about it.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Who else uses a 142 front hub? They won't make it to sell just a few . I don't know of anyone else using that hub spacing. Hence the Jones hub


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I've got one on the front of my Mukluk. Any fat bike with a thru axle on the front before the be compatible with the Bluto craze has one.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Welnic. What is it you have on your Mukluk?


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

A 142mm x 15mm front hub. It came with a 135mm QR hub. Then Salsa recalled some of the Mukluk forks. At that point you could upgrade to a Makwa carbon fork for the price difference. I did that, and changed out the end caps on my Hope Fatsno hubs to 142mm x 15mm. At one point there were only 135mm hubs on fat bikes, but quite a few went to thru axles since it does help with wrestling with the massive tires.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Thanks . I didn't realize that. I wondered how Jeff came up with that spacing. Still using 135 qr on mine


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Jeff originally went with a 135mm hub on the front so it would have a stiffer, better supported wheel. When people first started making fat bikes they had to go with a 135mm front hub just so the wheel and tire would fit into the fork. The difference between 135mm and 142mm is the 135mm uses a quick release and the 142mm uses a thru axle. Modern hubs can just switch from one to the other by changing the end caps, but Dynamo hubs have a little more going on inside than normal front hubs.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

This was linked above, but I will post it here again, as there a bunch of new stuff coming from Mr. Jones.

First is a steel Plus Spaceframe with 23" toptube.

Next, is a titanium version of the diamond Plus bikes, both 24" and 25", looks like with a titanium version of the Plus truss fork.

All the Plus frames will now have triple bottle mounts on the bottom of the downtube and rack mounts at the top of the seatstays.

Also, all Plus models will be Boost 148mm rear, Boo!

Jones Bikes ? Our new products at Interbike


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Lucky I got my Blue 24" Jones Plus then.









Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## Val Garou (Mar 12, 2008)

bikeny said:


> All the Plus frames will not have triple bottle mounts on the bottom of the downtube and rack mounts at the top of the seatstays.
> Jones Bikes ? Our new products at Interbike


I think that should say "will NOW have," not "will NOT have"


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Val Garou said:


> I think that should say "will NOW have," not "will NOT have"


Yes, you are correct. I fixed it in the original post. Thanks for catching that!


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

My Jones Plus update for comfort 

Sorry Update I have changed my H-Bars again to Salsa Bend2 !
Test in the morning????

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Update I have changed my H-Bars again to Salsa Bend2 !
> Test in the morning????
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


Blasphemy!!


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SeaBass_ said:


> Blasphemy!!


Haha



Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

New Salsa Bend2 handlebars fitted 










So new setup. 
With new handlebars I have more power, more comfortable, and my Jones Plus is how a load of fun.

I think the Jones Loop handlebars would be good if you have narrow shoulders. 
For me I need a 30 degree Jones Loop bar.



Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Tonight's ride having fun in the dirt 










Have how ordered a pair of Salsa Cowchippers 

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Update handlebar setup again  
Yes I have turned my Jones Loop bars upside-down and the fit is feeling a lot better.










Still have a pair of Salsa Cowchippers bars coming. 
But with my Jones bars in the lowest placement the setup may just work for me


Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## cansado (May 11, 2009)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi
> It's in front of the axle which can let the axle move down out of the frame in a low gear going up a big hill.
> 
> Rohloff have a few new mounts coming out for 2016 and I can make one work for me.
> ...


Kiwi Pete,

Have you had any trouble with the axle moving using the standard Monkey Bone?
I'm hesitating setting up my Plus.
I have the TS version of the hub and it doesn't look like they are making the new PM Monkey Bone axleplates for the TS hub. I only see the CC and A12 axleplates mentioned.

Thanks


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

cansado said:


> Kiwi Pete,
> 
> Have you had any trouble with the axle moving using the standard Monkey Bone?
> I'm hesitating setting up my Plus.
> ...


Hi Cansado
No so far 
All working great
I had a TS Rohloff for 7 years and sold it for more then a new one :thumbsup:
The new CC and A12 axleplates are still coming

Kiwi Pete 
:eekster:


----------



## cansado (May 11, 2009)

Thank you Kiwi Pete!


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Your welcome ☺

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## torosc (Aug 17, 2008)

Has anyone tried a fat front to match the 29+ in the back? It looked like everything out there would have lowered the front quite a bit until the Snowshoe XXL. But would that even fit the plus truss fork?


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

torosc said:


> Has anyone tried a fat front to match the 29+ in the back? It looked like everything out there would have lowered the front quite a bit until the Snowshoe XXL. But would that even fit the plus truss fork?


I think you're exactly right - there _will_ be a height discrepancy - especially if you use one of the bigger plus tires in the rear (and why wouldn't you?) I think about this question whenever I consider this bike too though, because I couldn't imagine NOT wanting a fat front. Some considerations and thoughts I've had:

- Remember that, up until 4.8 tires arrived on the scene, even the regular 29 frames had to make due with a fat front wheel diameter that was noticeably smaller than the rear. Especially if you were using a larger tire like an Ardent, which most people do. I think the ability to shim and fine-tune the headset/fork height helped to compensate for this, allowing you to correct the headtube angle and raise the front end by putting all the shims on the bottom. I imagine it works much the same with the Plus?

- There actually are some pictures on Jeff's website which show the Plus with a Bud in front. Some have a plus-size tire in back, and some a regular 29er tire - so that's an option too:









Even though the Bud is the tallest (non XXL) tire, most reports seem to suggest that it has exceptionally good steering characteristics. It sure is an awful lot of weight and tread for dry summer trails, though.

- Similarly, if you don't need the absolute biggest plus-size tire in back, the 3.0 Panaracer Fat B Nimble (which is actually about a 2.8) happens to be an _exact_ height match to the largest 26 x 4.8 tires. This, with the Knard 4.8, is the combination I'm running on my regular 29 frame:









However, I will definitely say that, compared to a slightly smaller-diameter and smaller-volume fat tire, this one is clearly starting to get "too" big and exhibit some negative consequences like self-steer and bounciness. I don't know if the Plus bike, with it's significantly greater fork offset/lower trail, would fix this. Based on this experience though, I tend to think the XXL would _not_ be a viable option.

- The most promising option, which I'm waiting on and I think will start to gain momentum pretty quickly, are 650b fat tires! If you haven't followed this, Bontrager/Trek already has a 3.8 tire out that is the same height as the biggest 26x4.8 tires, and a couple of 80mm rims, too. Some day, there will be even larger volume options. But even in the meantime, the 3.8 gains some of the needed height at a more ideal volume for a fat front.


----------



## torosc (Aug 17, 2008)

This is great information. Thanks. It's good to see I'm not the only one thinking about this, and I see another thread developing on this same topic. The 27.5 fat movement was something I was expecting too, and I'm glad it's starting to happen. I had not seen the trek offering before.

I really don't want to drop the front end of the bike any more. It looks like you are not a foreigner to being on the edge of what these frames can handle in terms of size. I am guessing any tire with a lower diameter than the Chupacabras I have will be detrimental. 

Unfortunately, I can't comment on how the new fork dimensions would behave with the fatter tires as I have very limited experience with anything larger than the 29+ selection.


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Changed my handlebars again to Salsa Cowchippers.

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

New tyres and a world of difference!
Making the Jones Plus a much better all round bike.

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

NZPeterG said:


> New tyres and a world of difference!
> Making the Jones Plus a much better all round bike.
> 
> Kiwi Pete from the road


Changed bars again???


----------



## sgtrobo (Aug 19, 2014)

torosc said:


> Has anyone tried a fat front to match the 29+ in the back? It looked like everything out there would have lowered the front quite a bit until the Snowshoe XXL. But would that even fit the plus truss fork?


I rode one this past summer like that. It was a ponderous beast to be honest. I think the ideal situation will be when (if?) Jones makes a Ti 29+, with the ibis 941 wheelset. I rode the Ti Jones conventional with Velocity Blunts and man it was pretty darn impressive


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

bikeny said:


> Changed bars again???


Yes I have!
And today I have charged my Stem to a 30mm longer one and at last i'm feeling like its a mountain bike.
I then checked my Bike fit info and I need to charge my stem to a 10mm plus longer one (100mm one)
I have been running a 60mm stem and how have a 90mm stem
It was a Epiphany :eekster:

Kiwi Pete......


----------



## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Ever considered to give you body some time to adapt to a new setup?
Sometimes we can't evaluate a new setup right away from trying it for a couple of rides, we need to insist a bit more.
Just my 2c


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes and I have. 
Wrong angle of Handlebars and to short stem Do Not work. 



Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

So a little more detail.
Having got the Jones 24" Plus bike I was thinking that the top tube is a little long for me!
Why? 
Because I'm only 172m tall, and all my older bike's with a 23" were just right size for me. 
How I have not been able to get comfortable and this was stopped me ride over 60 km's. 
How! 
I have moved my saddle all the way back
Put a longer stem on (30 mm's longer) at 90 mm and may test a longer stem to work for me. 
I have short legs and a long back for my size. 
I do help people with bike fit at my place of work! But it's hard to fit myself because I can not stand back and check my setup. 
I hope this helps you all. 
☺

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

These things look fantastic I'm a long time JJ fan but the Plus bike really looks to be the next level.


----------



## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

Still loving the Jones Plus. I switched to Surly 165mm cranks and SRAM GX1 rear derailleur with a Shimano XT 11-42T cassette.

After switching to the 165mm cranks, a 36T cassette wasn't enough because of the lost leverage. But now with the 42T rear I can really spin up hills. Also with the shorter cranks pedal strikes are few and far between (even with the ebb at 6 o'clock). I really like the shorter cranks. I've had zero knee pain since the switch.

I also switched the Jones Loop out for a Thomson Ti flat bar (12deg sweep). I just wanted to try it. So far on super technical terrain I like the flat bar a smidge better. For all other terrain I prefer the Jones bar.









I would also like to point out that I've had zero creaking from the ebb, even after riding through water deep enough to submerge it.


----------



## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

I would also like to point out how similar the geometry between the Jones Plus and the 1983 Specialized Stumpjumper is.

The Plus HTA is 67.5 and the Stumpy is 67.

The Plus fork offset is 76mm and the Stumpy is 76.2mm.

The Plus bb drop (lowest) is 88mm which gives a bb height of 299mm and the Stumpy is 298mm. 

The Plus chainstays are 19 inches and the Stumpy is 18 3/4 inches.

It's an interesting comparison and only the '83 Stumpy has this geo, by '84 Specialized went to a more conventional geo and stuck with it.


----------



## cansado (May 11, 2009)

Jeff Stevens said:


> Still loving the Jones Plus. I switched to Surly 165mm cranks and SRAM GX1 rear derailleur with a Shimano XT 11-42T cassette.


Jeff,

Thanks for the update.

Are you still running the 26T front ring on the Mr. Whirly and not experiencing any chain/tire rub with the new 11-42 cassette?
Looks like a Paul chain keeper too?


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Jeff Stevens said:


> I would also like to point out how similar the geometry between the Jones Plus and the 1983 Specialized Stumpjumper is.
> 
> The Plus HTA is 67.5 and the Stumpy is 67.
> 
> ...


Thanks for info  
Starting to like my Jones and an epiphany about the top tube being short then Jeff calls it.
How we a 30 mm longer stem I'm having fun.

Kiwi Pete from the road


----------



## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

cansado said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> ...


It's all still the same. Keep in mind I'm running the Surly MWOD 26t, so the ring actually mounts in the middle position of the Mr. Whirly, so there's plenty of clearance. The Paul chainkeeper doesn't technically slide low enough but I haven't dropped a chain yet.

One nice thing about running the 1x with a 26t is clearance when going over log and rock piles.


----------



## branwell (May 14, 2014)

Hi Guys, I am enjoying the ownership of the Jones Plus. I am curious if anyone has ridden it in half-fat mode, and was wondering what your thoughts are on it. I am currently looking a Halo Tundra fat front wheel which comes with a 142mm hub spacing as standard - so should fit perfectly. Also comes with adaptors which allow it to run 135mm hub spacing which will work with my wife's Jones Spaceframe - so seems like quite a versatile wheel.


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## cansado (May 11, 2009)

Jeff Stevens said:


> It's all still the same. Keep in mind I'm running the Surly MWOD 26t, so the ring actually mounts in the middle position of the Mr. Whirly, so there's plenty of clearance. The Paul chainkeeper doesn't technically slide low enough but I haven't dropped a chain yet.
> 
> One nice thing about running the 1x with a 26t is clearance when going over log and rock piles.


Thank you Jeff.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

branwell said:


> Hi Guys, I am enjoying the ownership of the Jones Plus. I am curious if anyone has ridden it in half-fat mode, and was wondering what your thoughts are on it. I am currently looking a Halo Tundra fat front wheel which comes with a 142mm hub spacing as standard - so should fit perfectly. Also comes with adaptors which allow it to run 135mm hub spacing which will work with my wife's Jones Spaceframe - so seems like quite a versatile wheel.


Scroll up to #187........


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## branwell (May 14, 2014)

SeaBass_ said:


> Scroll up to #187........


aha, I missed that. thanks for the heads up. I may stick with the 29er+ and get a set of tyres better suited to our climate (Scotland).


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

A quick update on my Jones Plus.
Now starting to fall for her! 
With the longer stem and new bar setup, I can now have a load more fun. 
I have replaced the seatpost and crankset. 
Running a AbsoluteBlack Oval chainring along with my Rohloff gear hub.










Kiwi Pete from the road


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

It's Christmas and riding time in the sun. 
Handlebar setup done..











Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks for all the info in this thread, folks. A 29+ ride will definitely be added to the stable in 2016 and after pondering all the options, it's going to be a _Jones Plus_, hands-down.

Now I just need to sell a few things, and quit obsessively going to his website on a daily basis....


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

So has anyone tried to fit a 27.5 x 3.8 fat tire in the Jones Plus fork? Seems like that would be the size of choice if one wanted a fat front on a Jones Plus.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

@bikeny- maybe, but it's 750mm diameter or so acc to Walt if memory serves, cf the 765-770mm of a 29+ such as a chupacabra or chronicle, not sure I'd be keen to run a smaller diameter front tyre compared to rear. Maybe that's just me! I think the plus truss version is 135 or 142 OLD and is longer -350 ish a-c - than the 'normal' so should fit a 27.5 Hodag easy. It fits a 26x4.8 also I believe. I need to get some spokes but soon will be running a Hodag on the front of my normal jones truss, TB rear- that should be pretty cool.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

bikeny said:


> So has anyone tried to fit a 27.5 x 3.8 fat tire in the Jones Plus fork? Seems like that would be the size of choice if one wanted a fat front on a Jones Plus.


Really! I can't believe that nobody has tried this and reported yet. Just a guess, but I'm assuming its' because:

1. It's kind of a costly experiment to build a second wheel with a still-expensive boost hub, for something you might not feel like you "need?"​
Still.... I understand that 3 1/4" tires front and rear feel pretty damn good but I can't help believe that, based on what we know from experiences with the regular 29, there wouldn't be something gained by re-distributing that total volume just a bit. 3 3/4" front and 3" rear seems like it could improve cornering and give you that same monster-truck-that-can-crush-any-obstacle feeling, without any downsides. Overall diameters would be a near perfect match.

2. Maybe people are afraid that the whole format will be a flash-in-the-pan, and that the tires won't stick around, or that there will be no other options?​
It's a shame that Trek didn't put out a couple of options right off the bat. A more supple for winter use would get better reviews than the Hodag, even though it's probably just about right for a fat front summer setup.

3. There really aren't any good rim options yet.​
If they were looking for rapid acceptance, this is where Trek really dropped the ball in my opinion. That tire doesn't look right at all on the Bontrager Jackalope rims. The profile is too square, and the rim looks as wide or wider than tire. Fine for maximizing winter flotation, but not great for cornering on loose dirt or for providing protection from rocks. The next best option still seems to be the Stan's Hugo, but there really needs to be something in between!



dRjOn said:


> maybe, but it's 750mm diameter or so acc to Walt if memory serves, cf the 765-770mm of a 29+ such as a chupacabra or chronicle, not sure I'd be keen to run a smaller diameter front tyre compared to rear. Maybe that's just me!


Fat-front rigs have almost always had a slight diameter discrepancy if using a big rear tire like an Ardent - which a majority of Jones bikes do/did. It still worked pretty well.

I thought the Hodag is actually 764mm diameter - at least that's the mfgr citation. If so, it is likely going to be a bit bigger than your rear tire... which is probably ok, too.



dRjOn said:


> I need to get some spokes but soon will be running a Hodag on the front of my normal jones truss, TB rear- that should be pretty cool.


What rim are you planning to use? Please post up when you finish! I'm going to do the same thing before spring, one way or another. But I'm biding my time and hoping somebody releases a decent 60-65mm rim first. Perhaps at Sea Otter?...


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

ill have to dig out the measurements Walt put up....im sure-ish rather than certain that was the (rough) diameter...If you look at the pics of it in the fox 34 bosst fork there is a lot of room, more than with a 29+, under the arch anyway. 

it is close, in terms of diameter to an ardent, say, but not close enough for me anyway. i ran a jones frame with an endomorph and/or nate with a 29 rear and disliked the effect of the front end drop. on the other hand , the 29+ on the front 29 rear seemed to be a benefical change...you've got to figure in the 'pneumatic' sag as well...i must lose a cm on the diameter on my fat bikes at working pressure...and i reckon this is a fair bit more than on 29 @22-25 psi as i run. 

im using a nextie 52mm rim. i believe they do a 27.5x60 or 65mm rim also? of course its not cheap - but for carbon its reasonable. my last coupel nexties were drilled a bit off, so i will be interested to get this one built up as it seems a step up in QC.

there was a rumor of maxxis doing 27.5x3.8" ish wasnt there? thats what i am hoping for anyway...though ive been impressed witht e recent bonty offereings. infact, isnt the big cheese doing tyre design ex of maxxis?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

ya...see here: walts instagram: i extrapolated a little...will measure once ihave the wheel up and running...


__
http://instagr.am/p/_TQcdoLy7j/


__
http://instagr.am/p/_BSI_pry70/

admitedly the hodag is new, but id estimate at least a cm difference there...

more here...
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fox-boost-34-vs-hodag-997791.html
walt mentions diameter ~750mm or so...

nextie 65: 
[NXT65BE-II] [Black Eagle II] 65mm Width Carbon Fat Bike 26" Rim Double Wall Hookless Tubeless Compatible 26-65mm | 34mm Depth | 550g | Tubeless | Tire 3.5"~4.8" | 3.5mm Rim Lip Thickness | [Black Eagle]


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Here is what I found as far as diameter:








Walt also mentions in a recent blog post that 26x5, 27.5x3.8, and 29x3 are all very close in diameter. You are right about the tires compressing under rider weight though. The 27.5x3.8 will compress more than a 29x3. I do think the riding diameters will be closer with this setup versus the fat front on a normal Jones (29x2.4 on a 50mm rim rear & 26x4 front).

I am hoping more 27.5 fat tires will be released in the near future, maybe even some slightly bigger 4.0" ones, that would be ideal!

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts when you get the wheel built up. And yes, I think that Nextie rim would be perfect.


----------



## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i'll update once i'm built up...im waiting for some fussy spokes and nips rather than more generally available stuff...so it goes! in some ways i hope it is a bit bigger, in some ways i'd be very happy with 750,,,its splitting hairs in terms of effect, but i kindof enjoy it! 

in a perfect world? a maxxis DHF single ply, exo, 3c 27.5x3.5 actual....hey! i can dream! ~


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

My bike budget has been on an upswing lately as I've been downsizing my fleet... until I got a message today from Jones that found an extra blue 25" Plus laying around. My budget is back in the red. Again.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> My bike budget has been on an upswing lately as I've been downsizing my fleet... until I got a message today from Jones that found an extra blue 25" Plus laying around. My budget is back in the red. Again.


Have Fun Building it


Kiwi Pete


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi, sorry if this has been covered but can anyone advise on what size the Plus' seat tube is? I'd like to fit a dropper if I decide on buying a Jones but need to know which ones are compatible? Many thanks.


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## cansado (May 11, 2009)

27.2 w/ 31.8 clamp


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Thank you


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## cansado (May 11, 2009)

You're Welcome!
Just rode mine for the first time today.
Snowshoe packed singletrack, felt great.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm seriously considering buying one, I'm waiting to see what the nsmb.com reviews says although my decision won't be solely based on this. I like the idea of ONE bike.


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

What took you [seat_boy] so long? 

Ryan


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

brief update. the hodag on the front matches a trailblazer on the rear of my Jones very well indeed. i like this combo a lot. I've mentioned before that using 29+ front/trailblazer rear pushd the geo pretty far and although it is a lot of fun, there were some unsavoury characteristics to deal with.









thats gone witht he hodag...

for more, blog post about it here.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

$$$$

It's a lot of money to spend for something that I can't test ride, and is a lot different from everything else I've had.



rcnute said:


> What took you [seat_boy] so long?
> 
> Ryan


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

My Jones Plus rides great, it just sucks on down hills with braking bumps.
Why?
Forks are just too stiff!

But I'm still riding my Jones Plus.


Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

NZPeterG said:


> My Jones Plus rides great, it just sucks on down hills with braking bumps.
> Why?
> Forks are just too stiff!
> 
> ...


That's interesting, can I ask what psi you're running in your tyres on these downhills?...


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

What are braking bumps?


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Bumps that you find on a well used trail where people have to be braking. Once they get started the way that bicycle reacts to them with the brakes on tends to make them bigger. This is just a picture that I found but it is a good example. They can get really big, and the bigger they get the more people get on the brakes.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Just J said:


> That's interesting, can I ask what psi you're running in your tyres on these downhills?...


Hi offroad riding tyre pressure are 10.5psi.
On the road I pump them up to 20psi.
Do you think 10.5psi is too high?
I do ride hard and fast on down hills 

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> $$$$
> 
> It's a lot of money to spend for something that I can't test ride, and is a lot different from everything else I've had.


My Jones is the only bike I bought new, complete and on blind faith, that worked.

Ryan


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi offroad riding tyre pressure are 10.5psi.
> On the road I pump them up to 20psi.
> Do you think 10.5psi is too high?
> I do ride hard and fast on down hills
> ...


I have no experience with a Jones Plus bike (yet!) but I have ridden the Trek Stache with about 15 psi and I tend to run my 27.5x2.8 Charge Cooker Plus bike with about 13psi so can't imagine that 10.5 would be too much for you?! I used to run 9 and 10 psi in my fat bike!


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I've hemmed and hawed about the Jones Plus for about a year now, but finally committed when they mentioned they found only leftover 25" frame, in blue. Scarcity breeds action:




















Not many miles so far, but it's mostly all good. It IS harder to get the front end to pop up, compared to my Karate Monkey, but it does seem to make up for that with a very nice balance between the wheels while climbing and descending.


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

Awesome. Hopefully it's a keeper.

Ryan


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## torosc (Aug 17, 2008)

Very nice looking. How tall are you if you don't mind me asking? It looks like you should be able to run a shorter stem and make it more nimble up front.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'm 6'3", currently running a 100mm stem. I like the fit this way, but I'm thinking about shortening the stem and applying a setback seat post to shift a bit of my weight rearward. But, it seems really comfortable now, so I need to ride it some more before I make changes.



torosc said:


> Very nice looking. How tall are you if you don't mind me asking? It looks like you should be able to run a shorter stem and make it more nimble up front.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> I'm 6'3", currently running a 100mm stem. I like the fit this way, but I'm thinking about shortening the stem and applying a setback seat post to shift a bit of my weight rearward. But, it seems really comfortable now, so I need to ride it some more before I make changes.


I'm 6'3 as well and my 25" (Blue,of course) is set up with a 100mm stem and an Eriksen setback post. I have really long arms so this set up works well. The bike is LONG so it takes a little more effort to wheelie.


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

Very nice. I ordered a 24" that is in the process of being built.


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## MacB (May 13, 2011)

bikeny said:


> Here is what I found as far as diameter:
> View attachment 1042113
> 
> 
> ...


If it helps I sort of keep track of my notes on this sort of stuff, going from the lowest in 700c/29 terms then you get diameters around 674mm at 700x23 up to 778mm at 700x77(29x3). A 700x40 tyre comes in around the 700mm mark so 29er tyres tend to range from 720-778mm or a variance of about 25mm in BB height from running 2" up to 3" 29er tyres.

For reference a 26x2" tyre is about 670mm and so is a 27.5x42mm tyre and both are pretty close to 700x23.

Interestingly if a road bike with a 70mm BB drop can run 700x23 then a 29+ frame like the Krampus with a 60mm BB drop could do so as well, though the trail number would be a lot lower. Even the ECR with an 80mm BB drop could run much smaller tyres for road and trail touring.

I've found the Jones geometry quite interesting, he's clearly gone to lengths at the front end to reduce the trail number from high 90s down to mid 70s by increasing the offset. This will mean with smaller slicks for road/touring use it would handle more quickly like a traditional tourer. Whereas the Krampus and ECR record trail numbers in the mid 90s with the 3" tyres.

Love to see some direct Jones+ v Krampus comparisons


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Switch over from Bikepacking adventure setup to light weight for quick light rides close to home.
Looking to buy a second Jones 


Kiwi Pete from the road


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## Jeff Stevens (Mar 31, 2011)

After spending a weekend at Raystown Lake last fall, l have been playing around with my setup. Raystown is very fast and not very technical, it's like a giant pump track.

I'm 5'11" and on the 24". Jeff Jones recommended me to be on a straight post and 90-100mm stem. The problem is I love, my Eriksen Ti setback post and with my weight set back I lose front grip on faster turns. First I played with tire pressure and now run 4psi less in the front then the rear. That helped a ton but didn't cure it.

My second change was to Thomson Ti 730mm bars with 12deg sweep. The bars move my weight a little more forward and cured the rest of the "understeer" problems that I was having.

So for now I ride the Thomson Ti bar on my normal weekend rides and I swap the Jones Loop bars back on for bike packing to gain the hand positions.











SeaBass_ said:


> I'm 6'3 as well and my 25" (Blue,of course) is set up with a 100mm stem and an Eriksen setback post. I have really long arms so this set up works well. The bike is LONG so it takes a little more effort to wheelie.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Well last night I was checking Jeff's website and found http://www.jonesbikes.com/f-a-q/
How I'm going to check and adjust my Jones Plus fit.
Check it out

☺

Kiwi Pete from the road


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

Can we get more comments from people who went from a diamond or spaceframe to a Plus? I love my diamond/unicrown but the grass is always greener.

Ryan


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

rcnute said:


> Can we get more comments from people who went from a diamond or spaceframe to a Plus? I love my diamond/unicrown but the grass is always greener.
> 
> Ryan


Hi Ryan
I'm now loving my Jones Plus so much that i'm planning to order a Jones 29 in a few weeks.

So if you would like to wait i'll do a full report once build

From 
Down Under the home of the best Mountain Biking in the World!
New Zealand


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## gulljammer (Oct 15, 2010)

Just wondering what you feel like you would gain from getting a Jones 29er? Is your Jones Plus missing something? I have never ridden any plus size bike, but I am very interested in the new Jones Plus.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

gulljammer said:


> Just wondering what you feel like you would gain from getting a Jones 29er? Is your Jones Plus missing something? I have never ridden any plus size bike, but I am very interested in the new Jones Plus.


Hi
As I said love my Jones Plus but with any plus tyres a little slower on tarseal cycle track's (just a little).
With my short legs my saddle in low and with the plus forks my handlebars are 50mm higher than the saddle! With the Jones 29 the bars would be level. 
Plus plus tyres cost more than standard 29er tyres and I ride over 3000 miles a year.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

gulljammer said:


> Just wondering what you feel like you would gain from getting a Jones 29er? Is your Jones Plus missing something? I have never ridden any plus size bike, but I am very interested in the new Jones Plus.


I have both a Plus and a Spaceframe although right now they are on the other side of the world. Both are great bikes but in my opinion there are a few important differences. As far as setups went I liked the Spaceframe best with a fat front tyre as this took the edge off bumps best, and had my Plus set up with a Knard rear tyre and Dirt Wizard front. Both bikes were set up 2x10 with mostly XT parts.

For a relatively long bike, the Plus is very nimble. I've taken it through some fairly narrow tracks (switchbacks, narrow tree lined singletrack) and never really had issues with the bike not being able to go around corners. It's also very good at carrying speed/momentum, or at least as much as a rigid bike can! The bike seems to plane over roots and small bumps better than any other rigid bike I've had/tried (Gryphon, Krampus, Ice Cream Truck) which I think is due to the long front end and fork geometry. It also has excellent climbing traction. This makes it good for long days out riding.

The Spaceframe is much more maneuverable (not surprising given that it's about 100mm shorter in the wheelbase than a Plus!) and would therefore be my choice if I knew I was going to be doing lots of low speed technical riding i.e. chutes/steeps with sharp corners before/during them, or lots of tight twisty singletrack. I would say they are fairly complementary if you can have both.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

morphosity said:


> I have both a Plus and a Spaceframe although right now they are on the other side of the world. Both are great bikes but in my opinion there are a few important differences. As far as setups went I liked the Spaceframe best with a fat front tyre as this took the edge off bumps best, and had my Plus set up with a Knard rear tyre and Dirt Wizard front. Both bikes were set up 2x10 with mostly XT parts.
> 
> For a relatively long bike, the Plus is very nimble. I've taken it through some fairly narrow tracks (switchbacks, narrow tree lined singletrack) and never really had issues with the bike not being able to go around corners. It's also very good at carrying speed/momentum, or at least as much as a rigid bike can! The bike seems to plane over roots and small bumps better than any other rigid bike I've had/tried (Gryphon, Krampus, Ice Cream Truck) which I think is due to the long front end and fork geometry. It also has excellent climbing traction. This makes it good for long days out riding.
> 
> The Spaceframe is much more maneuverable (not surprising given that it's about 100mm shorter in the wheelbase than a Plus!) and would therefore be my choice if I knew I was going to be doing lots of low speed technical riding i.e. chutes/steeps with sharp corners before/during them, or lots of tight twisty singletrack. I would say they are fairly complementary if you can have both.


Hi cool as just ordered a Jones Diamond unicrown frameset to go along with my Jones Plus 
 
Thanks 
Kiwi Pete

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2016)

bikeny said:


> Walt also mentions in a recent blog post that 26x5, 27.5x3.8, and 29x3 are all very close in diameter.


The first two are close in diameter. A 29x3 is about 18mm larger. A 29x2.5 would be the same as the first two if it existed, a 2.4 being the closest match.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi cool as just ordered a Jones Diamond unicrown frameset to go along with my Jones Plus
> 
> Thanks
> Kiwi Pete
> ...


Hey Pete, that sounds good, I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of the new bike once you get it built up :thumbsup:


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm totally interested in a Jones 29+ frame. I have a few bikes I could canabalise and get the bike up and running  What frame size would be good for me? I'm 6'. 

Thanks! 
Phil


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

I'm just under 6' and Jeff recommended the 24. Unless you have freakishly long arms, that's what I'd go with.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Fredsv said:


> I'm just under 6' and Jeff recommended the 24. Unless you have freakishly long arms, that's what I'd go with.


I believe Jeff himself is 6'-0", and that he designed the 23" 29 bike around himself. The 24" Plus is equivalent to that, so I'd say this is probably correct not matter what, at your height. Just as a comment though, In my experience, it's actually the _opposite_ condition that would make you want to size up to a larger bike/longer effective top tube in most situations (if you were between sizes, for instance). That is: long _torso_ but _short_ arms, proportionally for a given height.

The main thing I wanted to add though, is that you're not going to be able to cannibalize much from any other bike, that would be useful on a Jones. Maybe brakes, saddle, seatpost and some drivetrain parts at best. Headset, hubs (and thus wheels) are as specialized as you can get. And you really want the loop handlebar too, if you really want to experience it and understand it as a package. Not that this should discourage you, of course.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi all Jones Lovers and Owners
We now have a Jones Thread for all Jones

http://forums.mtbr.com/custom-builders-other-manufacturers/jones-jeff-jones-1006728.html


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

Ok, thanks for the advice. Yeah, its probably better to buy new anyway, more fun for sure.  

Does the Jones plus with the truss fork need a special head set? Also I can't find what width the rear drop outs have, 135mm?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

The truss fork uses a split compression ring on both the top and bottom cups. I've heard it's basically two top cups. Are top and bottom cups really any different apart from the compression ring? I'm not sure.

Current Plus frames are 135mm QR, but the upcoming new ones will be Boost. Sigh.



phil_rad said:


> Ok, thanks for the advice. Yeah, its probably better to buy new anyway, more fun for sure.
> 
> Does the Jones plus with the truss fork need a special head set? Also I can't find what width the rear drop outs have, 135mm?


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

*My New Plus*









This was delivered yesterday.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Fredsv said:


> View attachment 1058633
> 
> 
> This was delivered yesterday.


Beautiful. I've been kind of thinking of buying my wife a 23" spaceframe plus, and she would have dug the crap out of that brown color. But lime green... I just don't know.

Anyway, at least it's now a possibility!

Jones 23" Spaceframe Plus 148 TA PRE-ORDER - Jones Bikes


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

She would definitely stand out with a lime-green space frame.


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## Canyon_Calling (Mar 24, 2016)

I've had my Jones Plus for a little more than a year now and I've realized I'm tired of the double chainring I started with. I'm pretty sure I want to convert the Surly OD crank to a 1X10 using a 32T Wolf Tooth chainring and a Sunrace 10-42 cassette. I'm a little concerned about doing this due to chainline issues, thinking that there might be a wicked cross-chain on that granny gear. I'm curious to know if anyone has converted their OD to a 1X10 and how it has gone. 

I'm planning to speak with Jeff Jones tomorrow about this and also to discuss with my LBS. The 1X10 just seems so ideal for this bike, especially as since getting it my riding has shifted from almost entirely road biking to lots of singletrack and mixed use. I was eager to get the OD because I thought I'd do a lot of bikepacking, but it turns out I hate riding with a load too much for serious bikepacking! Consequently, the 39T ring is way too tall for most of my mountain rides, yet the 26 is only a climbing gear. This coupled with really terrible front derailleur shifting on the OD makes the simplicity of a 1X10 really attractive. 

If only Surly would make their 54 bcd narrow-wide rings in sizes other than 28T this would be easy! Or if I had enough cash to just buy a new dedicated 1X crank...


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

SRAM GX Boost w/ 32T ring for $95 @Jenson looks hard to beat:
SRAM GX 1000 Boost 148mm X-Sync Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA

I am happily running a 2x version on my Krampus.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I'm nor sure what your riding is like, but that 28t chainring might be perfect for the Jones Plus setup as a 1x.


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## Canyon_Calling (Mar 24, 2016)

Yeah as I said, 28t is too low for me. I have Plus and road wheelsets and need something with ≈25 - ≈85 gear inches in range. Starting to think I might eventually need to just buy the new thru-axle Jones at some point and have two 1X10 bikes, with the TA for the trails and current bike for the road. Jeff Jones genius will make you itch to burn wads of cash!


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

phil_rad said:


> Ok, thanks for the advice. Yeah, its probably better to buy new anyway, more fun for sure.
> 
> Does the Jones plus with the truss fork need a special head set? Also I can't find what width the rear drop outs have, 135mm?


Have a word with Jelle at singlespeed.nl, he can sort you out with the frame and headset. Think he has a 135mm left.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

martin_uk said:


> Have a word with Jelle at singlespeed.nl, he can sort you out with the frame and headset. Think he has a 135mm left.


I did, Jelle And I are friends, ride on the same team. He's going to hook me up with a blue 24" frame and fork, I think I'm going to put a Rolloff on it. 
I can't wait!


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

*Jones Plus Review*

Jones Plus Review - BIKEPACKING.com


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Ti Jones Plus is now available for preorder. I think I'll buy a lottery ticket tomorrow.


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## Dyloffroad (Jun 6, 2016)

Hi everyone, first post and hopefully I don't come off sounding too desperate from the start!

I have been lurking on the forums for a while, and have followed threads and read blog posts and online reviews on the Plus over and over. I have contacted a few people asking about the possibility of buying their Plus second hand, but no one will part with theirs (surprise, surprise!) I thought that, with the release of the Boost and Ti versions, I would finally create an account on here in the hope of reaching a wider audience who are now, perhaps, more likely to consider letting go of this unique creation with the idea of upgrading. I am only 179cm, or 5' 10.5", but I really think I would prefer the 25" for the massive frame bag capacity and in keeping with my preference for very short reach stems (I would run a 35mm extension with Jones Loops), stand over be damned! So, if anyone out there has a 25" frame set, especially a blue one, that they are looking to pass on to finance a newer version, or perhaps because it just wasn't for you, I would greatly appreciate it if you made contact with me.

Thank you


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi Dyloffroad 
You will love a Jones Plus 

I'm now having some much fun riding my new Jones Diamond but have not worked if I'm going to sale my Jones Plus or keep it.

Kiwi Pete from the Singletrack


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi Dyloffroad
> You will love a Jones Plus
> 
> I'm now having some much fun riding my new Jones Diamond but have not worked if I'm going to sale my Jones Plus or keep it.
> ...


I have a similar, but opposite quandary. I love my Plus but cant quite bring myself to selling my Spaceframe. When I ride it I still love it but find myself choosing the smoothness and all round capability of the Plus more often.


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## rollingout (Apr 14, 2015)

martin_uk said:


> I have a similar, but opposite quandary. I love my Plus but cant quite bring myself to selling my Spaceframe. When I ride it I still love it but find myself choosing the smoothness and all round capability of the Plus more often.


I'm pondering jumping over to the Plus frame but would need to sell my Spaceframe first. For tech and singletrack riding, which do you prefer?


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

rollingout said:


> I'm pondering jumping over to the Plus frame but would need to sell my Spaceframe first. For tech and singletrack riding, which do you prefer?


The steeper and rougher the riding the more I prefer the Plus. At the other end of the riding spectrum, the Plus has more room for bottles and bags if you're out for an epic. To my mind its a better all rounder and a better 'all mountain' bike.

My Ti Spaceframe is so quick though. Quick to steer, fast to accelerate and still incredibly comfortable for a rigid bike. Just not as comfortable as the Plus. As its one of the older ones I cant run a fat front so it can never give me the same grip that the Plus can. I think my Spaceframe is a better singlespeed too.

If I could only have one, it would be the Plus but luckily I dont have to make that decision


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

martin_uk said:


> The steeper and rougher the riding the more I prefer the Plus. At the other end of the riding spectrum, the Plus has more room for bottles and bags if you're out for an epic. To my mind its a better all rounder and a better 'all mountain' bike.
> 
> My Ti Spaceframe is so quick though. Quick to steer, fast to accelerate and still incredibly comfortable for a rigid bike. Just not as comfortable as the Plus. As its one of the older ones I cant run a fat front so it can never give me the same grip that the Plus can. I think my Spaceframe is a better singlespeed too.
> 
> If I could only have one, it would be the Plus but luckily I dont have to make that decision


Same as me...i have the diamond Plus and ti Spaceframe set up ss. The only thing stopping me from getting the SF Plus is more on the top tube length..

Jeff mentioned the plus SF has an even shorter reach compared to the 29er SF due to the slack angle. As my SF is already on 70mm stem n layback seatpost, I am afraid the plus SF might be too near a reach for me. Need to try one for size if I want to change to the plus SF.


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## rollingout (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks for the responses. I love the feel of the spaceframe whenever I go out as well. Taking (yet another) leap of faith with the Plus seems like odds are against me.

One other question:

What are the chances of 26 or 27.5 x 3.8" tires fitting in the back? If it will fit, I would readily get rid of my fat bike as well. On a couple of videos, Jeff is running Crux 3.25" tires. If they are true to size, maybe there is hope that fat tires will fit, especially if running a "skinny" fat like a Fat B Nimble.

Understandably, the issue might be tire clearance, but I mostly ride SS and would set it up with a King SS rear hub, which I may go 6-speed once in a while. Maybe with the Boost rear end, it won't be as much of an issue either way.


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## FrankZappa6 (Aug 9, 2010)

I have a soon to be 14 month old granddaughter who loves to explore everything - especially with her Grandpa . I just ordered a front mounted child seat and plan to put it on my HT Karate Monkey first for neighborhood and bike-path rides. I've promised the KM to my youngest, so I'm starting to think about the next bike anyway.

In looking ahead to light trail rides, is the JJ Plus the bike I'm looking for? The comments about stability, traction and comfort combined with a little plus sized cush sound pretty appealing. Other contenders would include another Monkey, an Ogre, an ECR or maybe a fat bike.

Here's a pic of the kiddie seat...is this a good match on a JJ Plus bike for Grandpa duty?


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## rollingout (Apr 14, 2015)

FrankZappa6 said:


> I have a soon to be 14 month old granddaughter who loves to explore everything - especially with her Grandpa . I just ordered a front mounted child seat and plan to put it on my HT Karate Monkey first for neighborhood and bike-path rides. I've promised the KM to my youngest, so I'm starting to think about the next bike anyway.
> 
> In looking ahead to light trail rides, is the JJ Plus the bike I'm looking for? The comments about stability, traction and comfort combined with a little plus sized cush sound pretty appealing. Other contenders would include another Monkey, an Ogre, an ECR or maybe a fat bike.
> 
> Here's a pic of the kiddie seat...is this a good match on a JJ Plus bike for Grandpa duty?


Jones/Plus is a nice bike, but for what you're looking to do, maybe too much? It does have the cool, retro look, so if that is worth it to you, it will handle what you can throw at it just fine. Also, the more upright position compared to your KM would be a "plus" as well. That said, getting something like a Surly Wednesday with a Jones bar (for the said upright position) would be a cheaper way to go. Or maybe an ECR or Krampus. More standard parts compared to the Jones, therefore, overall, cheaper.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

No-one gone for a (lime) green Plus??

I'm going for a boost 148TA/150 and it's either black or green (or, OMG it's yellow!)


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

bonesetter2004 said:


> No-one gone for a (lime) green Plus??
> 
> I'm going for a boost 148TA/150 and it's either black or green (or, OMG it's yellow!)


Wish green had been available last year


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Super pleased with my new ride.


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## pacerider (Oct 3, 2005)

Is that a standard green? the new green seems really yellow on the website


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

martin_uk said:


> Wish green had been available last year


I'm going yellow, er I mean green, well any other colour but black I mean

Now, what wheel combo...?


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I'm going yellow, er I mean green, well any other colour but black I mean
> 
> Now, what wheel combo...?


Light Bicycle 50mm rims with hope hubs


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

No, I had it powdercoated. This is a 2016 with the 142 rear, not the Boost, by the way.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

MrkT said:


> Super pleased with my new ride.


rear rack?


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## notequal (Nov 27, 2005)

TooSteep said:


> rear rack?


Looks like a Surly rear rack.


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Yeah, the ultimate goal for this thing is a 2+ year long touring free-for-all. I thought a seat pack would be really be pushing the limits for me, packing-wise. I'm thinking a pair of 32L Arkels back there.

and yes, went with the Surly. Clearance looked a little tight with the Tubus.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

martin_uk said:


> Light Bicycle 50mm rims with hope hubs


Thanks Martin. I'll look into these as I've ordered a 29 Scraper for the front, but also have a fat front planned


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## martin_uk (Feb 11, 2004)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Thanks Martin. I'll look into these as I've ordered a 29 Scraper for the front, but also have a fat front planned


I've never been tempted by a full fat front but would love to try a Hodag. Just can't justify a new wheel to try one tyre.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Here's my 25 boost plus


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Here's my 25 boost plus
> 
> View attachment 1097079


Nice! What's the front hub now? 150?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

SeaBass_ said:


> Nice! What's the front hub now? 150?


Thanks. Yup 150, with 148 rear - it's the future!


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Deleted


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Thanks. Yup 150, with 148 rear - it's the future!


Nah. 148 rear is already obsolete. Super Boost Plus is in now:

7 Reasons Not To Hate Super Boost Plus - NSMB.com


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

This is getting out of hand. I'm still completely happy with 100/135 QR axles. I would like my Jones better if it had a normal 100mm front axle, then I could easily interchange wheels.



TooSteep said:


> Nah. 148 rear is already obsolete. Super Boost Plus is in now:
> 
> 7 Reasons Not To Hate Super Boost Plus - NSMB.com


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

I have a question for Jones Plus bikepackers: what bags are you running up front? 

I just picked up the Bedrock Bags Entrada handlebar roll and it's fantastic... the manufacturing is super solid and the stability is incredible... BUT... it does not play well with my BarFly (now BroadFork) Banana Hammock, which sits in the loop area of the Jones H-Bar. Anyone running a successful loop bag/handlebar roll combo? I'd love to figure out how to get the two to coexist, but if push comes to shove, I'll probably keep the Entrada and forgo the loop bag.


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Mount your roll on the loop part of the bar. Should solve the problem


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Any opinions on fatness up front...?

I'd like to try it, but 

1) it's pricey to try

2) the front is heavy enough already

3) what really are the pros... and cons?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

MrkT said:


> ...I'd love to figure out how to get the two to coexist, but if push comes to shove, I'll probably keep the Entrada and forgo the loop bag.


I have the Banana Hammock as well, and love it. It's on my Jones Bar all the time....except when I go bikepacking, for the same reasons you cite. I don't think there is an easy solution to combine a loop bag that sits down inside the loop with a larger handlebar bag underneath wthout having some interference, that I'm aware of. However, I'm willing to forego the Hammock on multi-day trips when the space is more needed for other things. It's still a really useful bag the other 90% of the time.

Btw, the new green on the Jones Plus is _hawt..._ :eekster:


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Any opinions on fatness up front...?
> 
> I'd like to try it, but
> 
> ...


That's the first time I recall hearing the front end described as "heavy." Usually, I hear people say that it's "surprisingly light" feeling, considering the length of the chainstays. Interesting.

I keep waiting for feedback on this too though, because the 23" spaceframe Plus is still the bike my wife has her eye on, and she's hoping it will work with a fat front. Somebody who already owns one really needs to man-up and try it. 

I only have experience with the regular 29, which isn't heavy at all, so my thoughts may or may not be valid, but here they are anyway:

1) Yes it's pricey. But I don't think there's an advantage to going with the highest-dollar, weight-weeniest, most blinged-out option possible, and spending more than necessary. Something simple and reasonably priced like a Jones hub with an alloy rim (mulefut or surly) should be just fine. The fat front isn't about doing manuals over every obstacle as much as it is about a monster-truck-like ability to swallow them up and roll over and through them. And that's what makes it fun.

2) The biggest "con" I can see is that there are VERY FEW fat front tires that come close to the same diameter of a 29+ rear tire. Bud 26x4.8, Knard 26x4.8, Barbegazi 27x4.5 and Big Fatty 26x4.8 are the only ones I know of for sure. And even with those, you'll still need to use one of the _smaller_ 29+ tires in the rear if you want the diameters to match, which is what I've done. (I use a FBN 29x3 [which is really a 2.8] rear and a big fatty front.)

Though some might not like the idea of having to use a less-than-biggest-available rear tire, I think of it like this:

- As long as you can run the rear tire at a comfortable pressure (like 14 psi) and not get pinch flats, then it is adequately sized.

- After that, what you're doing is _re-distributing_ some of the total volume to the front, where you can really use it, for cornering traction and cheap-but-effective front suspension. Consider this diagram:​








One other thing to keep in mind, given the diameters we're talking about , is that you probably need to use a wider rim for your fat front than you might otherwise consider for a summer/trail bike - like 80mm. The really fat 26" tires I mentioned don't have a good profile on 65mm or narrower rims. So this does add a bit of weight.

Here's a thread I posted when I discovered the Big Fatty as a fat front. I settled on it because it handles/steers way better than the other 26 tires, and because I got tired of waiting for the Barbegazi 27. I am pretty happy. As a front, it isn't as nice as a slightly-smaller 4" tire paired with a 2.5 rear but, including the semi-plus size rear, it is better as a whole.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/good-interim-alternative-27-x-fat-format-1012914.html

The 650b Bari is now available, as well as a 650b mulefut rim I think, so that might be the best available choice. If I had a Plus frame, that's probably what I' do at this point. On the other hand and compared to my bike, I think the Plus has an even lower trail front geometry, so it probably handles better with these taller tires by design.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Excellent information there iamkeith. I agree that I never found the Jones front end to feel heavy, just the opposite. Disclaimer: I do not have a Jones Plus, and I no longer have my ti spaceframe. I did have the spaceframe setup as 27+ and also 29x2.4 rear and 29+ (FBN) front, which were the biggest tires I could fit on it. I also have a custom Waltworks frame with very similar geometry to the Jones Plus (shorter CS), and it has a Jones ti truss fork on it. I've run that bike as a 29+ (Chuppie, Trax Fatty), 26 fat (Hodag & Vanhelga) and also as a 27 fat (Hodag on Hugo rims). I will say that I usually like my bikes with matched front and rear tires, so I never tried 29+ rear and fat front, though I suppose I could. My first comment is that the 27 Fat setup blew away the 26 Fat setup, even with the undersized Hodag tires. At this point I see no reason to ever try 26x4.0 again. I can understand 26x5.0 for ultimate float on snow and sand, but that's not what the Jones is about. If you are going to try fat front, go right for 27.5 fat. Unfortunately, there is only one tire big enough right now, the Barbegazi 4.5, but it's a really good tire. But yes, that setup will probably be heavier than a 29+ setup, depending of course on what tire/rim combo you currently run.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Yes, great info thankyou

Please ignore the heavy front comment. I am coming from a Trek Stache with 16" dead CS's 29+ front and B+ rear. The whole bike feels super light in comparison (to pick up, not riding). The Plus front does feel heavy to pick-up (I have a Scraper rim and a Dirt Wizzard combo), but does not translate as such on the trail, which sees 80% of this bike's use

I've got half a dozen rides on the bike now (~3-5 hours each) and while I have 'gotten used to it' I am still seeing there's so much more to come

The very low BB and high front is a pretty cool feeling. The front's integration and synergy with the rest of the bike is also very obvious and inspires big confidence 

Since asking the above question the curious itching to try a fatter front is rescinding, especially given there's just one 27 tire available, so I don't think I'll be manning up to the podium any time soon... instead just enjoying the bike more 

Thanks again for the input guys


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

if it helps: the barbegazi 27.5x4.5 is a bigger diameter than my chronicle 29+ and chupa 29+ and the old knard 29+, just, but bigger. 

id never have thought about putting a 27.5x4.5 on the front of a jones plus - for me, it is more of a snow/sand/bog tyre, rather than a trail tyre, though it rolls well for its size and is grippy. i might nudge biff @ yeswerareontheweb.com about it ... (uk importer of jones stuff) i should be catching up with him soon. jeff might even have tried it, though it hink he's pretty sold on the 29x3.2 ish tyre, the name of which escapes me...


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

^ Your input very much is welcome, thanks. I think I've seen enough (thanks all for the great experienced info) and not ridden this bike anywhere near enough to just ride more the way it is and try the upcoming 29x3ish tyres


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

dRjOn said:


> ... though i think he's pretty sold on the 29x3.2 ish tyre, the name of which escapes me...


29x3.25 Duro Crux? 
Hwa Fong Rubber Ind. Co., Ltd.


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## JayCon (Jan 23, 2015)

I received my Jones Plus 148 TA frame this week and finished assembling the bike today. I've only managed an hour in the saddle because of a brutal storm system in the Pacific Northwest, but what I know, I like. A lot. At 6'5", I have ridden my share of ill-fitting bikes. Through last winter I rode a Surly Wednesday. Tried to make it work with 29+ tires, but struggled to keep the wheel stable in the dropouts. The Wednesday is a long bike, but it was difficult to get the front end high enough for my needs. Also, with the 55mm BB drop and the 29+ shoes, I felt perched way on top of the bike. I really like the Wednesday as a fat bike, but it wouldn't become the 2-in-1 package I was looking for. Read a lot about the J+ and decided to risk ordering the frame. I want the 2 x 29+ for major bikepacking adventures, and I'm pretty sure that 26 x 4.6 up front and 29+ in the back will answer my winter fat biking needs, given that winter here means mud and debris more than snow and ice.



Tall riders need not worry about the fit. The BB-center to saddle-top as pictured is 33.75, with an inch or two to play with on the seatpost (410mm). At the moment, I'm running a 90mm stem with about 30mm of spacers above the upper truss sleeve. I'll probably drop that to about 15mm, but I'll need more rides before settling on the fine-tuning.

I've never been in this position on a bike--feels almost like standing. It won't be for everyone, but I started smiling immediately. I suspect you could get the new Fargo pretty close to this geometry (with a Jones Bar), but I rode a Fargo down most of the Divide Route in 2015 and didn't love it. The Plus is expensive for steel, but when you consider that the EBB and TAs are included in the price, it's only a little expensive. I've had a variety of steel frames--road, commuter, and MTB--and this is the nicest one out of the box. Really a pleasure to build up.

My interest is in bikepacking and gravel riding, but even monster cross bikes are like paint shakers at my size (255), and this is the solution for me. Could not be more pleased.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Swapped out the winter tyres I had fitted on the initial build up as a, the weather here has been un-seasonally dry and has made for summer like dusty trails and b, I wanted to see how bigger volume, lighter tyres were like

So, off came the DW front and 2.35 Nobby Mic rear and in went Chronicle front, Chuppa rear

The whole bike felt lighter to pick up, especially the front. Rolling was faster as would be expected, and the biggest overall difference was cush and compliancey Much nicer

Here's a couple of shots from yesterday


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Those of you who have tried different bars from the JJ H, what have you settled on?

I am running an 800mm wide flatish bar, not having tried a H


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## Dyloffroad (Jun 6, 2016)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Those of you who have tried different bars from the JJ H, what have you settled on?
> 
> I am running an 800mm wide flatish bar, not having tried a H


Just to get the bike up and running initially I ran a 760mm bar (about the widest I feel comfortable using around here due to tight trees) with pretty standard dimensions, 9* backsweep and 15 or 20mm rise I think. With a 45mm stem my 25" Plus felt just like a downhill bike for me at 179cm (around 5' 10"), really long wheelbase and short reach with a tall front end meant I could just stand comfortably and ride into anything. Jumping actually felt ridiculously easy, especially long tabletops or gaps with flattish takeoffs, like a downhill bike it floats off lips rather than popping, so very different to the bike I'm coming from (Kona Honzo, which is very poppy and playful due to the short chain stay). I think I was really enjoying the predictability of the rigid fork not compressing on the takeoff.

For the past couple of weeks I have been running a Black Sheep Mountain Moustache (ooooh, ti!), which James told me was 738mm wide but is actually a touch wider than my 760mm bars(!) I haven't measured to see which is accurate. These, aside from drop bars, are my first 'alt bars'. I got them over the H Bar as I ride single speed, so the 78* backsweep in the outer 'hooks' feels awesome for climbing once you get used to being so upright. The bars are insanely flexy for me having always ridden alloy bars, but here is the thing: I'm finding the plus tyres (currently Chupas front and rear) very bouncy in any kind of technical terrain. I'm running around 12psi in the front I think on 35mm internal rims (Spank Oozy 395+, awesome rims, super stiff which made my first ever wheel build a piece of cake!), and any lower and I run into rim strikes. Although the 760mm straight bars meant I could ride the bike like a downhill bike I was getting into all sorts of trouble screaming into rock gardens trying to stay off the brakes and just getting bounced way off line. The added damping from the flexy Ti bar has helped a little, and I also haven't missed any loss in steering leverage or precision (in the braking position my hands look to be at roughly 45*, as on an H Bar) because I simply can't attack technical terrain at the same speed as I'm accustomed to on my hard tail.

Do take my experiences with a grain of salt as this is my first plus bike, and my experiences with tyres wider than 2.4" have been so far from my realm of experience that I haven't been hooked on them immediately as so many have. I also probably had overly high expectations of the Plus as a rigid bike with large, undamped tyres comparing it to my Honzo with a 2.3" Minion DHR2 and 120mm travel on the front, which is like a trail scalpel when the Plus feels like a machete!

With all that said, this bike is an absolute blast!!! It took a four day XC stage race for me to realise what the Plus is about: getting out on two wheels and exploring and, most of all, having a huge amount of FUN along the way. Plus tyres (for me at least) aren't precise enough for riding against the clock, but that has never really been my scene anyway. This bike is just such a joy to ride for mile after mile, cruising the flats in a bolt upright position while enjoying the view, pushing up the hills, and then dropping in and, as long as things aren't too rough, staying off the brakes and launching off every root, rock and dip in the trail while whooping with joy! Basically it is the klunker for the modern age I think, with a few performance upgrades and an extremely comfortable ride to boot. If anyone is interested, I feature in a couple of action shots in this online magazine's write up of the event:

Cape To Cape 2016 - Sundown Shootout: Top Guns Blazing Amongst the Pines - Flow Mountain Bike

I want the caption under the second picture of me to go on my grave stone, it describes me so well haha! 

So I think to conclude this long winded handlebar comparison I would go with some kind of alt bar for the Plus, it just seems to suit the bike's character better and encourages you to move your hands around on long rides, relieving stress in your wrists and also your back as your body position changes. And if you can rustle up the funds I highly recommend investing in some Black Sheep bars, James is awesome to deal with and will make you anything by the sounds of it, and the ride of his bars is very comfy. I was lucky in that he had exactly what I was after in stock and he gave me a great deal, so thank you James! I will be sticking with a straight bar on my hard tail when I want to chase my friends on fancy full sus bikes through toothy terrain. But when I think about all the things I love about cycling, and that make me truly happy during and after a ride, I could be quite content to have a Jones Plus as my only bike


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## Dyloffroad (Jun 6, 2016)

martin_uk said:


> The steeper and rougher the riding the more I prefer the Plus. At the other end of the riding spectrum, the Plus has more room for bottles and bags if you're out for an epic. To my mind its a better all rounder and a better 'all mountain' bike.
> 
> My Ti Spaceframe is so quick though. Quick to steer, fast to accelerate and still incredibly comfortable for a rigid bike. Just not as comfortable as the Plus. As its one of the older ones I cant run a fat front so it can never give me the same grip that the Plus can. I think my Spaceframe is a better singlespeed too.
> 
> If I could only have one, it would be the Plus but luckily I dont have to make that decision


Hi Martin, sorry to dig up this older post. I just thought I would add my thoughts on running the Plus as a single speed, and hopefully others can benefit from it.

On my hard tail with a 29 x 2.4 Ardent I was running a 32 x 19 gear. On the Plus I had to use a wide base cog with the aluminium free hub body on the Halo XCS hub I'm using, so I borrowed from a friend a 17t cog he had laying around just to get the bike up and running. So I jumped to 32 x 17 with 29 x 3 Chupas, and from 175 to 170mm cranks, which should be insanity, but somehow it works!!! The 29+ hoops roll so fast through most terrain that with any lower gearing I would be spinning out like crazy. Climbing is definitely hard, and I do have to get off and push at times, but, for me at least, that suits the character of the Plus very well; hop off, stretch your legs and smell the wildflowers as you wander leisurely up the climb, mentally preparing to hang on for the ensuing descent!

I am in Western Australia, which has no proper hills, so maybe my experience is irrelevant. The terrain is often steep though, it's just that the pinches are short, so if where you ride sounds similar (I think maybe some parts of the UK...?) then I highly recommend gearing UP and improving your hiking skills! 

As an apology in case this ends up a double post, here is an action shot. The Jones prefers to launch rock gardens than ride through them!

EDIT: I forgot to say a big thank you to all the people who patiently responded to all my questions regarding sizing, ride feel and component selection before I finally decided to give the Jones Plus a go, so thank you Eric (bikingtoplay), Martin (mbudd) and of course Kiwi Pete! And a huge thank you to Jelle at Singlespeed.nl for giving me a great deal on his personal 25" blue frame set when he upgraded to the gorgeous ti version. You are all legends, enjoy the ride!


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## UN-COG-KNEE-TOE (Mar 7, 2008)

...curious, how did you adapt the Rohloff to use on a 148mm Plus frame?


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## Dyloffroad (Jun 6, 2016)

UN-COG-KNEE-TOE said:


> ...curious, how did you adapt the Rohloff to use on a 148mm Plus frame?


Sorry in advance if this is not aimed at me! I am riding the first generation frame set with 135 x 10 rear and 142 x 15 front axles, and I just have it set up single speed at the moment with a Halo XCS rear and Hope Fatsno front hubs. I haven't seen anyone running a Rohloff on the second gen Boost frames yet, but I wonder if you could use the new version 142 x 12 Rohloff with some kind of spacing either side of the hub and a 148 x 12 axle? You would need to space the disc calliper too, but I wouldn't think that would be too hard, just use longer bolts and a couple of washers.

Otherwise I think there are still some 135mm spaced frame sets floating around internationally; I had mine shipped to Australia from the Nederlands! The only issue then is if you wish to run a dynamo and don't want to fork out the cash for a wider spaced fork (groan). I'm going to investigate the possibility of cold setting my 142 spaced fork out to 150 so I can run a dynamo for touring. I would think it would be doable since the truss is very stiff and square and not dissimilar to the rear end of the frame. Anyone else considered or even attempted this? I have cold set a frame before, but I got that for free and this frame cost me all my savings!!! My thinking is the main issue would be aligning the threaded through axle dropouts and keeping the brake mounts vertical. If it's only 4mm a side difference maybe things won't get too skewed...?


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## UN-COG-KNEE-TOE (Mar 7, 2008)

Dyloffroad said:


> Sorry in advance if this is not aimed at me! I am riding the first generation frame set with 135 x 10 rear and 142 x 15 front axles, and I just have it set up single speed at the moment with a Halo XCS rear and Hope Fatsno front hubs. I haven't seen anyone running a Rohloff on the second gen Boost frames yet, but I wonder if you could use the new version 142 x 12 Rohloff with some kind of spacing either side of the hub and a 148 x 12 axle? You would need to space the disc calliper too, but I wouldn't think that would be too hard, just use longer bolts and a couple of washers.
> 
> Otherwise I think there are still some 135mm spaced frame sets floating around internationally; I had mine shipped to Australia from the Nederlands! The only issue then is if you wish to run a dynamo and don't want to fork out the cash for a wider spaced fork (groan). I'm going to investigate the possibility of cold setting my 142 spaced fork out to 150 so I can run a dynamo for touring. I would think it would be doable since the truss is very stiff and square and not dissimilar to the rear end of the frame. Anyone else considered or even attempted this? I have cold set a frame before, but I got that for free and this frame cost me all my savings!!! My thinking is the main issue would be aligning the threaded through axle dropouts and keeping the brake mounts vertical. If it's only 4mm a side difference maybe things won't get too skewed...?


Thanks for your reply, yes i was actually asking NZPeterG how he got the Rohloff to fit the 148 Frame... perhaps he approached it as you stated. I'd like to know how the 148 frame and Rohloff are working.


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## Dyloffroad (Jun 6, 2016)

I'm almost certain Pete's frame was also a 135 x 10 spaced frame, all the blue frames are from the first generation before Jeff moved to Boost. I almost bought his frame actually but decided to go for the larger size haha  Pete has some good info regarding running a Rohloff on the 135 frames in the comments section of Cass Gilbert's review of the Plus on bikepacking.com, here is a link:

Jones Plus Review - BIKEPACKING.com

Perhaps Jeff could look at offering something along these lines for his frame, since the Plus is so well suited to off road loaded riding, where it makes so much sense to run a Rohloff:

Salsa Deadwood Rohloff - BIKEPACKING.com

Good luck figuring out the compatibility issues, I believe it is worth it to experience the Jones ride!


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## UN-COG-KNEE-TOE (Mar 7, 2008)

Dyloffroad said:


> I'm almost certain Pete's frame was also a 135 x 10 spaced frame, all the blue frames are from the first generation before Jeff moved to Boost. I almost bought his frame actually but decided to go for the larger size haha  Pete has some good info regarding running a Rohloff on the 135 frames in the comments section of Cass Gilbert's review of the Plus on bikepacking.com, here is a link:
> 
> Jones Plus Review - BIKEPACKING.com
> 
> ...


OK, thank for the info. I see now. I assumed the Plus frames have all been 148, i wasn't following along too closely on those. Thanks again.


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## Gormson (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi, there will be an 148 Boost Rohloff version out in january 2017. 

https://www.rohloff.de/de/produkte/speedhub-boost-a12-148mm/index.html


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

I bought a Jones Plus frame back in May and speed it with a Rohloff hub, I purposely bought a 2015 model with the 135 rear spacing for my Rohloff. I was impressed at how the bike rode, really inspiring for a completely rigid bike. Not so with the Rohloff, it made the bike feel sluggish, heavy. So I swapped it out for a new 1x11 shimano xt drivetrain. Now the bike feels snappier, more lively.
I've had the rohloff hub for about 6 years, I bought it used off a friend. Its been on four different frames of mine, a singular gryphon, niner sir 9, niner on 9 and the jones plus. Funny, on all of the steel frames the rohloff just didn't feel right, like I said before, slow sluggish and heavy. On the one 9 though it feels pretty normal. So thats where i'm going its going to go. 
I really like the plus, its amazing and fun to ride. I get a lot of weird looks when I ride it, most people here (Germany) have seen or have ever heard of Jones bikes, let alone a plus. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Happy trails! 
Phil
I probably put 600 km on it with rohloff.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Wow, this bike is F-A-S-T-!


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## Wilburtron (Jun 16, 2011)

Just curious - can 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags on 50mm rims fit in the new plus frame?


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## rosscopeco (Oct 23, 2006)

I asked this a couple of months ago on another forum and got a couple of helpful photos so not mine but here's a 3.8 Hodag on a 50mm rim...tight but a possibility if it's not too muddy.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I've been toying with the idea of getting a Jones plus. I like everything I've heard about these bikes, and the design/geometry/rider positioning jives with what I've come to find works for me. Anyway, I have some questions about the new 148TA frames vs the 135mm rear-spaced frames. Why the switch? The new rear axle is the Boost "standard" that many plus bikes are moving to, right? Is the 150 TA front the same as many fat bikes now run, or is it another proprietary front hub? I ask because I'm tempted by the sale on remaining 135 frames. I like the idea of being able to run standard rear wheels. On the other hand, the 150 front on the new 148TA would be nice if I could swap the front wheel with my Wednesday. Thanks!


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## JayCon (Jan 23, 2015)

One of the reasons I bought the Jones was the possibility of runnning a fat wheel up front. I thought I might get rid of my Wednesday's and use the Jones during fat bike season. Instead, I bought a Beargrease frame and switched everything over from the Weds. I did, however, use the 29+ front wheel that I sometimes ran on my Wednesday for the front on the Jones. I replaced the rear 177 hub with a Hope boost hub to complete the wheelset.

So, yes, the 150 front is a standard 15 x 150 fat bike hub. As for the rear, the boost "standard" hub gives better clearance for big meats on teh back. Let's just hope the "standard" holds. The fact that Shimano is producing boost cranks suggests that they think it's standard worth investing in. (Note that they don't produce any great bike cranks or hubs, which may indicate that they think fat bikes are a passing fancy.)


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

JayCon said:


> One of the reasons I bought the Jones was the possibility of runnning a fat wheel up front. I thought I might get rid of my Wednesday's and use the Jones during fat bike season. Instead, I bought a Beargrease frame and switched everything over from the Weds. I did, however, use the 29+ front wheel that I sometimes ran on my Wednesday for the front on the Jones. I replaced the rear 177 hub with a Hope boost hub to complete the wheelset.
> 
> So, yes, the 150 front is a standard 15 x 150 fat bike hub. As for the rear, the boost "standard" hub gives better clearance for big meats on teh back. Let's just hope the "standard" holds. The fact that Shimano is producing boost cranks suggests that they think it's standard worth investing in. (Note that they don't produce any great bike cranks or hubs, which may indicate that they think fat bikes are a passing fancy.)


Thanks.

A recent quest to find replacement bearings for my Wednesday's stock front hub opened my eyes to how much the exploding (pun intended) hub size market sucks. Right now for 150/177 hubs you can choose between cheap(ish) no-brand or OEM branded hubs (Formula, Novatech, etc) that don't last, or expensive boutique hubs (I9, Hope, etc) that don't last. I've got many 100/135 low-end Shimano cup-n-cone hubs that have survived countless miles in mud, slop, sand, underwater, etc that just keep on turning.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

cjbiker said:


> Thanks.
> 
> A recent quest to find replacement bearings for my Wednesday's stock front hub opened my eyes to how much the exploding (pun intended) hub size market sucks. Right now for 150/177 hubs you can choose between cheap(ish) no-brand or OEM branded hubs (Formula, Novatech, etc) that don't last, or expensive boutique hubs (I9, Hope, etc) that don't last. I've got many 100/135 low-end Shimano cup-n-cone hubs that have survived countless miles in mud, slop, sand, underwater, etc that just keep on turning.


You're right, It's a problem. But I wouldn't say the only options are super cheap or super expensive. There's the cheap stuff that works for some, but not for others. There's the name brand decent hubs that work for most, and then there's the super expensive boutique hubs. The middle category is small, but I think the best place to look. I would but Hope in there, but at the top would be DT Swiss. A set of their fat bike hubs can be had for around $300, which isn't bad for super high quality bombproof hubs.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

bikeny said:


> You're right, It's a problem. But I wouldn't say the only options are super cheap or super expensive. There's the cheap stuff that works for some, but not for others. There's the name brand decent hubs that work for most, and then there's the super expensive boutique hubs. The middle category is small, but I think the best place to look. I would but Hope in there, but at the top would be DT Swiss. A set of their fat bike hubs can be had for around $300, which isn't bad for super high quality bombproof hubs.


I hadn't looked into DT Swiss. Do they have freehub bodies with steel splines?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

cjbiker said:


> I hadn't looked into DT Swiss. Do they have freehub bodies with steel splines?


You cannot buy the hubs standard with steel freehubs, but they can be purchased aftermarket for around $90.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Here is an option to a Rohloff hub that gives you more hub spacing options.

The Kindernay XIV Hub: A 14 Speed Internally Geared Rohloff Competitor? - CyclingAbout


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

It's basically coming down to a choice of 3 bikes for me: old Krampus (my LBS has one available), the new Krampus when it comes out next spring, or a Jones. Plus the dark horse, a set of 29+ wheels for my Pugsley. 

The old and new Krampus are mostly the same. Subtle geometry tweaks and boost hubs vs 100/135. The Jones is vastly different in every way except tire size. The Pugs is somewhere in between?

My riding is mostly non-technical trails, some elevation, lots of rocks, mud, sand, roots, etc.


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## neilyo537 (Aug 12, 2011)

Quick question, any of you guys had any idea about the compatibility of 29 x 3.0 tire at the rear with 27.5 x 3.8 at the front? 

I'll be using the SF Plus.

Thanks.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

neilyo537 said:


> Quick question, any of you guys had any idea about the compatibility of 29 x 3.0 tire at the rear with 27.5 x 3.8 at the front?
> 
> I'll be using the SF Plus.
> 
> Thanks.


I'm not sure what you mean by 'compatibility'. They will both fit the Jones Plus. The problem is that 27.5x3.8 tire will be a good bit smaller in diameter than a 29x3.0 tire. That will mess up geometry: lower BB, steeper HTA and STA, etc. I don't think it would be ideal. Any idea if the fork will fit a 27.5x4.5 tire? That would be much closer in diameter to a 29x3.


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## neilyo537 (Aug 12, 2011)

Here is my first Jones












[ATTAC


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Im planning on building up a Jones Plus 135 soon. The frames are on sale and its cold here in Germany so I figured its a good time to build up a bike. I want to keep this bike simple and robust. Plan on building it up as a dinglespeed with BB7 discs. Brown frame with a mix of black and silver components. I already have a few components laying around. (Cogs, grips, peddles) But most parts will be bought new. Never built up a bike before so hopefully you guys can take a look at my shopping list a give some advice if I missed anything or if you’d recommend something that works well on a jones bike.

Questions like: 
What stem length did you guys start with? Im 5’10” and am thinking of starting with a 60mm stem.
Anyone running SS? If so what gearing are you using on these big bikes?
What the diameter of the headtupe for reaming? I may buy a reamer/facer cutters and build a tool.


Jones Plus 135 frame and truss fork, headset, 135f hub, H-bar $1374 ($225shipping to europe)	

Carbon Headset Spacers €10(Amazon)
Alum Jones H-Bar 710mm (included in price above) 
Raceface 60mm 6deg Stem €14.9 (Bike-Discount)

BB7 MTB 180mm Rear €49.95 (Bike-Component)
BB7 MTB 200mm Front €54.95 (Bike-Component)
Avid Speed Dial 7 Lever Pair €17.95 (amazon)
Avid Cable €3
Cable Donuts €1.5
Housing Ends	€0.95
Cable Ends €0.95
SRAM Housing €3

Surly OD Crankset w/ BB €309 (Bike-Component)
(The surly OD is a bit pricy and may not be good for dinglespeed. may change my mind.)
Shimano CN-NX10 1Speed Chain €4.95

Raceface ARC 40 Rim pair €199.8 (Bike-Discount)
DT Swiss Competition Spokes, two sets if I need two different lengths €109.8
Hope Pro 4 Trials SS Rear Hub, comes with spacers and is a bolt on i think €209.9 (Bike24)
Jones 135F hub (included in price listed with frame)
Stan's No Tubes 25mm Rim Tape (Lasts 2 29” rims) €13.9 (Bike-Discount)
Maxxis Chronicle 3.0 €129.8
29x3.0 Tubes €27.8
Katana Spoke Tensiometer €39.9 (Bike-Discount)
Park Tool Spoke Wrench	€10 (Bike-Discount)

Saddle, Don’t know which one yet €20estimate
Quick Release Seatpost Clamp €10estimate
Thomson Alum Elite Seatpost €69.9 (Bike-Discount)

Total build cost about €3043.80 (Will most likely go up another 20% with stuff I forgot, like paying to have the head tube reamed and faced at the LBS)


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

What stem length did you guys start with? Im 5’10” and am thinking of starting with a 60mm stem.

I started and stayed with a 60 on my 25" frame

Anyone running SS? If so what gearing are you using on these big bikes?

Ive done 30/19 & 32/20

What the diameter of the headtupe for reaming? I may buy a reamer/facer cutters and build a tool.

I Didn't need to do this. 


Alum Jones H-Bar 710mm

I started with the Loop Bar but changed to the Bend, which I like better because I can see my front wheel. 


BB7 MTB 180mm Rear €49.95 (Bike-Component)
BB7 MTB 200mm Front €54.95 (Bike-Component)
Avid Speed Dial 7 Lever Pair €17.95 (amazon)

Get the BB7S Calipers if you can 

Surly OD Crankset w/ BB €309 (Bike-Component)
(The surly OD is a bit pricy and may not be good for dinglespeed. may change my mind.)

OD is a bit weighty and has odd BCD's so your chainring options are limited. I had a set of XT Hollowtechs mounted for a while and they worked well. 


Shimano CN-NX10 1Speed Chain €4.95

SRAM PC850 with Powerlink is easier than messing with the shimano pins. 

Hope Pro 4 Trials SS Rear Hub, comes with spacers and is a bolt on i think €209.9 (Bike24)

I use the 10spd compatible Hope for the odd occasion that I run gears. 

Saddle, Don’t know which one yet €20estimate

Brooks C17!


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks for the advice SeaBass. I don't think ill get the BB7S, it looks like the only change is a bit lighter and has Stainless hardware. I never thought about not being able to see my front wheel with the H-bar. I can't on any of my motorcycles so hopefully it wont be a big deal for me. I crossed the OD Crankset off my list and am looking at XT 3x options. The XT FC-M782 is way cheaper and I should be able to mount two medium chainrings for a dinglespeed setup.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

If you're running a dingle, you'll be out of the saddle a lot. I felt that the Loop obstructed my view when I had to glance down when standing and going through the tight stuff so I switched to the Bend. It's your bike though! I started with BB7's on my Plus then switched to XT's. The BB's stopped me fine but the XT's stop me better.


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

So Ive ordered a Jones Plus in Brown. YAY! In this down time I'm having some custom parts machined. (Yes, I have access to a machine shop and its awesome.) Can someone tell me the inner diameter of the Jones Plus Steerer Tube? Is it thicker than a normal 1-1/8" steerer tube? Thanks for your help!


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

hi legopro87,

I'm also from Germany and I'm also building up a Jones Plus 148 TA at the moment. If you need some help or something like that please feel free to contact me.

Best regards Helmut


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## flatland (Aug 1, 2005)

*Jones Plus Green Machine*

Really like my Jones Plus!
The color, the way you sit in the bike, the way it handles...
It's not comparable (is that a word?) with any other bike I've owned (On-One Inbred, Niner One-9, Krampus, Singular Swift and Rooster etc.) in a positive way.

Untitled by daan bakker, on Flickr


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

flatland said:


> Really like my Jones Plus!
> The color, the way you sit in the bike, the way it handles...
> It's not comparable (is that a word?) with any other bike I've owned (On-One Inbred, Niner One-9, Krampus, Singular Swift and Rooster etc.) in a positive way.


It's definitely a unique capable ride that always puts a smile on your face. I've had mine going on 2 years now.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

*Another one rolling*

It's been rolling 2 weeks now, parts complete for a week. Only have to wrap the bars once I'm settled on the shifter/brake positions. No trails trials yet but I like how it rides on my daily commutes. Handles more stable, yet more responsive than my Krampus. Weird eh?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

seedub said:


> ?
> View attachment 1125502


Mine is so minimalist next to yours!


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

SeaBass_ said:


> View attachment 1125894
> 
> 
> Mine is so minimalist next to yours!


Wow, yeah yours is lean! Wish I was hard-core enough for SS. For me turns out that with commuting 5 days/50 weeks/yr and living 15 miles from downtown (for afternoon miles on weekends) that 95% or more of the total yearly miles is on city pavement. 1/3 if that is in the dark with traffic - ugh. Whenever I think about paring down what I commute with I remind myself that it's all prep for bikepacking (heavy) or trail riding which is all vert here. I can strip the fenders off in 20 min easy, bag of course less than 5. Dyno hub weight I'm stuck with, but wouldn't have it any other way. Love that capability.


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi there,

another Jones Plus from Germany 
An awesome bike - thxs a lot Jeff Jones for this great stuff!
Also thxs Charlie Hobbs from charliethebikemonger.com - probably the best bike shop in Swanage and far beyond!!

The only thing I have to do is just to wrap the Jones h-bar with handlebar tape, then I can start the first cycling tour!

best regards Helmut


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Im surprised to hear about all the Jones 29+ riders in Germany. I just moved here so some tips on where to ride would be awesome. Im located in South Berlin on the edge of Brandenburg. Not much to ride here but anything within a few hours train ride would be great. 

Finally finished my build. Went a little different then expected but happy with the way it turned out. Only problem is the spokes are too short by a few millimeters. They work for now. Will have to rebuild them with slightly longer ones before the nipples break. But until then I can at least go on a few short rides.

Major changes from what I posed above are a 3x XT crankset and a DT Swiss 350ss rear hub.


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

Hey seedub, Great build! 

If I may ask, how did you attach the Luxos to the fork? In a few weeks, I'll be working on putting those two pieces together myself...


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

*Dyno light mount w/ truss fork*



MauricioB said:


> Hey seedub, Great build!
> 
> If I may ask, how did you attach the Luxos to the fork? In a few weeks, I'll be working on putting those two pieces together myself...


Handlebar bracket, see link. Either it came with various thickness rubber mounting options, or I had some in my misc parts box from other light mounts. It is solid enough, and can easily be re-directed while riding for traffic or trail, or pushed back for protection within the truss fork. I don't know how this will work for BP though, I may have to move it back up to the HB when a sweet roll is mounted up.

R&M Handlebar Headlight Bracket


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

Sweet, thanks! It happens that I have an R&M in stock, but it for sure did not come with that rubber bit...I'll figure it out though.


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

legopro87 said:


> Im surprised to hear about all the Jones 29+ riders in Germany. I just moved here so some tips on where to ride would be awesome. Im located in South Berlin on the edge of Brandenburg. Not much to ride here but anything within a few hours train ride would be great.......


Hello Legopro, a beautiful Jones that you have built :thumbsup:
Check out the local bike forum here in the IBC.

Berlin und Umgebung | MTB-News.de

Here you should find tips where you can bike in Berlin and surroundings. I'm living in the south of Germany.

You can also buy the latest magazine "Radtouren". Inside is a good article about cycling tours in and around Berlin. Also links to the GPS data.









Regards Helmut


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

*First Ride*

3 pics from the first ride - amazing bike


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

edit


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

*Multispeed Crankset Options?*

I'll soon be taking delivery on a Plus 142, and planning to set it up 2x9. Do I have any option besides the Surly OD if I want to clear a Chupacabra on a RaceFace Arc 45?


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## flatland (Aug 1, 2005)

@MauricioB,

From the Jones Plus 135 faq:

Drivetrain notes for Jones Plus
Because of the wider tires on the Plus, there is less clearance between the rear tire and the chain. As a
result, triplechainring
(3x) and standard double chainring (2x) cranksets won’t work. We recommend using
the Surly O.D. cranks (73mm BB version) for 2x gearing (mountain double) on the Plus with a 10 speed
drivetrain, for which the Plus was designed. These cranks move the chainrings outboard, away from the
bike’s center line in order to give more tire clearance. For reference, standard mountain double cranksets
position the teeth of the inner chainring at approximately 43mm from the centerline of the bike, whereas the
Surly O.D. cranks put them at 51.4mm from the centerline. This gives the extra clearance that is needed.
As new standards come out, such as the “Boost” standard, there are more crank options that will, in many
cases work. For instance, a Shimano Boost crankset for mountain double (denoted by the addition of B2 to
the part number) moves the position of the inner chainring out to 45.8mm from the centerline, which gives
clearance for lowervolume
29x3” tires such as the Vittoria Bomboloni and Maxxis Chronicle, but not larger
volume ones such as the Bontrager Chupacabra. Because this introduces a gray area where some tires fit
and some don’t, we only recommend using the Surly O.D. cranks on Jones Plus frames.


So it's a bit of trial-and-error. If you don't have the Chupa's already maybe opt for the Chronicle's and boost crank?


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

(Not sure why, but my original post did not appear at the end of this discussion. Here was the question:

"I'll soon be taking delivery on a Plus 142, and planning to set it up 2x9. Do I have any option besides the Surly OD if I want to clear a Chupacabra on a RaceFace Arc 45?")



flatland said:


> @MauricioB,
> (...) So it's a bit of trial-and-error. If you don't have the Chupa's already maybe opt for the Chronicle's and boost crank?


Thanks for the reply, Flatland. I've read the stuff from Jones but was wondering whether the tinkers here had tried anything else or were aware of anything forthcoming.

I like Surly products generally, but 94/58 bcd? Really?

Given the amount of sand I end up riding, high-volume tires are a higher priority than perfect gearing. Very likely I'll end up with some flavor of Boost crankset and a 9 minus 1 cassette shimmed away from the hub. It's not like I spend much time in the 11 cog anyway.


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## rollingout (Apr 14, 2015)

MauricioB said:


> (Not sure why, but my original post did not appear at the end of this discussion. Here was the question:
> 
> "I'll soon be taking delivery on a Plus 142, and planning to set it up 2x9. Do I have any option besides the Surly OD if I want to clear a Chupacabra on a RaceFace Arc 45?")
> 
> ...


Boost is 96/64 bcd. OD crankset works for me. ~$125 shipped.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

MauricioB said:


> ...It's not like I spend much time in the 11 cog anyway.


I think that's the key consideration. I use a 1x11 (Shimano 11-42) on my 29x3.0 bike with a 28t ring upfront, and I don't miss the high gears. I just had a month of solid riding in Arizona and Utah and never felt like I needed either higher or lower gears.

Sheldon Brown's calculator says that 29x3.0, 28t by 11-42 gives 19.9 to 76.1 gear inches, which feels about right. 19.9 is a nice low granny gear, and about 1" more than you were getting with 2x systems a few years ago. The big question becomes if you feel you need more than 76" at the high end.

Using a RaceFace Cinch crankset, with the ring reversed outwards, I get a 57.5mm chainline - easily enough to clear a 3.0 Chupacabra.

Just some food for thought. Good luck.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Just so someone says it, you could always go with a square taper crank on a phil bb with whatever spindle length you needed - like we all used to do to solve this issue. Im pretty sure that the busnell eccentric bb has been used successfully for this. I cant remember which company it was that bought all the remaining midleburn inventory, but i think there's plenty available even in 3x10 config, so you could still do this in a very high end way if that's something you want.


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

Good ideas. Thanks all!


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Happened across this randomly just now, but here you go -

Some pictures of a square taper bb & middleburn crank, on a Jones, from a UK dealer's webpage. In this case, it's a 1x, but you can build it any way you want, obviously:

Page:

Keep Pedalling bike shop in Manchester. Surly, Bobbin, Jones, Ridgeback, Salsa, Genesis and a fully equipped workshop - Jones Space frame

Images:

https://www.keeppedalling.co.uk/s/cc_images/cache_2462412365.jpg?t=1445267392

https://www.keeppedalling.co.uk/s/cc_images/cache_2462412439.jpg?t=1445267441

Also, it looks like SJS Cycles is the one that bought the Middleburn inventory:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/middleburn/?geoc=US

This is certainly the way I would (or will) go if (or when) I get a Plus. Wasn't necessary on my 29 Spaceframe though - even with the shorter chainstays, 3x10, gearing and a 29x3 rear tire on a 49mm Dually Rim. I just used a basic XT, external bearing crankset. 
Kind of makes me think that real world clearances are somewhat more forgiving than theoretical or mfgr. minimimum clearances.

EDIT: Those might be X-type cranks after all - looks like Middleburn attaches them with a single, center bolt, so it's hard to tell the difference visually. The square taper cranks are further down the page and stock is pretty limited.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Square taper is boat anchor heavy though 

I used to be a big MB fan and ran a (Phil Wood) square BB, when I changed to lighter cranks and BB it noticeably changed the way the bike felt


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I've just swapped out my fat front, on my 29 Ti Spaceframe, for a 29 plus wheel. I'm using a 3.25 Duro Crux. All I can say is - just wow!

I've been running a fat front for 8 years and loved it, I tried a 3" knard, years ago, when it first came out and hated it, decent 3" tyres took so long to appear, that I forgot about the format. Then I saw a Crux, and it looked very interesting, good looking tread and nice and big, so I took the plunge and ordered one from Jef.

The Crux is so much faster, nimbler cornering and accelerates faster. I've been smashing Strava times. But here's the thing, it seems at least as comfortable as a 4.8" JJ!! And without the bouncyness. Well, now I'm itching to try a Saceframe plus, just need to sell a few things and raise the cash 

The only fly in the ointment, is I keep getting pinch flats from jumps, pressure is at 11/12 psi, so I'll have to try and tubeless the Rabbit hole rim


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Futon River Crossing said:


> I've just swapped out my fat front, on my 29 Ti Spaceframe, for a 29 plus wheel. I'm using a 3.25 Duro Crux. All I can say is - just wow!


Interesting. Did you move headset shims around, to compensate for the taller front wheel and geometry change?

You're lucky if the 23" Plus will fit you. If Jeff came out with a 25" spaceframe Plus, I'd sell most of my bikes and be done.


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

No moving of shims! I'm far too lazy for that kind of thing  

Honestly, I've had all kinds of tyres on it, the original (and really awful) endomorph, 3.8 Larry, Nate, Husker Du, BFL, Bud, and 4.8JJ. Mostly paired with either a Weirworlf 2.55, Ardent 2.4 or Racing Ralf and a Beaver in winter. So a vast variety of diameter combinations. All the tyres change the way the bike rides, I just see it as fun stuff to play with. I also adjust the angle of the H bars - which can slow, or speed up the steering feel, as required.

I actually think the Spaceframe Plus will fit me better than the 29 Spaceframe.

I'm going to give Jef a ring, as I have a few questions, such as why there is a bunch of tube manipulation on the seat/chainstays on the steel 29 Spaceframe - but not on the plus, also, if he has plans for a Ti Spaceframe Plus.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

neilyo537 said:


> Here is my first Jones
> View attachment 1120647
> View attachment 1120646
> [ATTAC


How are you liking it with the straight bars? Any urge to try a Jones bar instead?


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

The Torture Never Stops, Whats that you have mounted on the underside of your down tube? Looks like a homemade anything cage. I'm looking around for a big bottle cage to carry around my 40oz Hydroflask. There are a few options out there but always looking for new ideas. Nice build by the way. Completely black is a good look.


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi legopro87, it's a King Cage Many Things Cage!

Greetings Helmut


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## flatland (Aug 1, 2005)

Somebody tried 27,5+ plus wheels/tires in his Jones Plus?


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I now have a 2.6 Nobby Nick on the rear, pared up with the Crux up front. This is a near to full plus I can get my 29 Ti Spaceframe. Both now setup tubeless (first time tubeless!). This is a great combination, PR times are tumbling


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Futon River Crossing said:


> I now have a 2.6 Nobby Nick on the rear, pared up with the Crux up front. This is a near to full plus I can get my 29 Ti Spaceframe. Both now setup tubeless (first time tubeless!). This is a great combination, PR times are tumbling


Jones site says "not tubeless ready" for the Crux. (Duro Crux Tire - Jones Bikes) You disagree?


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

*For Sale: Jones 25*

Double Post


----------



## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

*For Sale: Jones 25" Titanium Plus complete bike build Jones/XT*

Decided not to sell and ride this beast around the world. Thanks Harry!


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

I disagree. Riding around the world on my Jones plus. Would love to have ti.... but you have to make your own way.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Yeah, it looks to me that thing is already built for rtw fun. Maybe swap tires and go nuts.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

TooSteep said:


> Jones site says "not tubeless ready" for the Crux. (Duro Crux Tire - Jones Bikes) You disagree?


I've been running the 27+ version of the Crux tubeless for 2 years without issue.


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks for the info about the King cage. I ended up buying the Blackburn Outpost cage. It will fit my Hydroflask a little better and at half the price. Its not Ti though, bummer.

Boris-159, That Ti Jones Plus looks like an awesome touring rig. I'd ride that for a rtw trip. But I understand trying to sell everything and making the hard decision to sell your dream bike. I sold everything I owned a year ago to start my trip. That included motorcycles, all my bikes and a business I started. It was tough but Im glad I did it and have no regrets.


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## gulljammer (Oct 15, 2010)

boris_159 said:


> Hello Fellow Jones riders. Unfortunately, I'm selling my 2017 Jones Plus Titanium 25" after only a few short months. Long story short, I've had some big life changes and it looks like my wife and I are going to be able to ride around the world sooner than we thought. Unfortunately, an $8,000 bike is not very condusive to this task for reasons that should be obvious. Part of our trip is selling everything we own stateside and my dream bike is part of that.
> 
> I've had the bike less than a year, I didn't spare any expense on this build. It is full XT with everything Jones that he makes. Additionally, I'm including a Jones Revelate Designs frame bag and the brand new bags that attach to the truss fork (No Pics yet). I'll be keeping the rest of my revelate kit for my around the world bike.
> 
> ...


Hey Boris, just curious how tall are you? Looking at the length of the seat post and steerer tube I would guess 6'5". Maybe you should consider a dirty sixer for your epic journey.


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## flatland (Aug 1, 2005)

Last Sunday I did the Mill Man Trail 100km in Luxemburg with my Jones Plus.

It did perform very well, not as fast in descending compared with the full sussers or fatbikes (but I think that is just me not the bike) , but climbing performance was great of course I've got tired but when climbing I had the feeling I can go on forever, the upright position makes you less tired I think?

The only drawback are the pedalstrikes, I will turn the EBB more to the upper position the next ride.

Untitled by daan bakker, on Flickr

Untitled by daan bakker, on Flickr


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

TooSteep said:


> Jones site says "not tubeless ready" for the Crux. (Duro Crux Tire - Jones Bikes) You disagree?


I've setup my Duro Crux tubeless - on a Rabbithole too, also my first time with DIY tubeless. So I'd say - it's definitely doable!


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## joop (Dec 11, 2006)

boris_159 said:


> Hello Fellow Jones riders. Unfortunately, I'm selling my 2017 Jones Plus Titanium 25" after only a few short months. Long story short, I've had some big life changes and it looks like my wife and I are going to be able to ride around the world sooner than we thought. Unfortunately, an $8,000 bike is not very condusive to this task for reasons that should be obvious. Part of our trip is selling everything we own stateside and my dream bike is part of that.
> 
> I've had the bike less than a year, I didn't spare any expense on this build. It is full XT with everything Jones that he makes. Additionally, I'm including a Jones Revelate Designs frame bag and the brand new bags that attach to the truss fork (No Pics yet). I'll be keeping the rest of my revelate kit for my around the world bike.
> 
> ...


Ygm (from worlddancephoto)


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

Jones Carbon H-Bar for sale from my Jones Plus.

Jones Carbon H-bar - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## cansado (May 11, 2009)

Sent you a message through the add.
Not sure if that's the way to do it.
I'll take them if still available.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

sent you a PM


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

In case anyone is wondering, I weighed my Jones Plus dinglespeed build. Im not a weight weenie but its cool to know the weight when comparing to other bikes.

It weighed 14.19kg loaded with a bag, tools and blackburn cage. Which is how it normally is.
It weighted 13.09kg with that stuff off.

Its not even close to a lightweight build and I'm not running tubeless. I think I could get it lighter with a few mods but I probably won't. It rides great the way it is.


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## jfboat (Feb 10, 2016)

Putting my 2015 Jones Plus 135 25" in black up for sale. I can't seem to figure out why my photos are flipped upside down. They work fine on other forums. I have tried to correct multiple times.

2015 Jones Plus 135 - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Link with non-flipped pics:
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2188868/


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## 772268 (Jun 8, 2014)

Hello All.

Can someone help me out! I'm inclined to put a Jones truss Ti fork onto my current Ti frame, and I need a measurement to see how / if it will be doable for me.

I need a measurement which will tell me how far apart the two mounting locations are on the Truss, ..as in... where the fork actually bolts onto the steer-tube. I need to know the measurement 'BETWEEN', as well as the measurement 'on the other side' of the bolt-on circlets.

I was considering buying a Ti frame and fork set from Jones, but I'm not willing to pay what's being asked for the Ti frame and fork made in Taiwan, at least not right now. I might pay what's being asked if it were made in USA by People in the USA, but not otherwise. Not for that price. Additionally, the way I ride, I like my current frame, which has a very nicely low downtube, and I find that My knees are often times in the exact spot that the downtube of the 24 Diamond frame is located...which would have me bashing my knees into the down tube like what used to happen to me years ago when I'd been riding a hardtail. My current bike is a 29plus and the wheelbase is little less than an inch shorter than the Jones. I alraedy have a high / almost standing stet up on my current bike where I also run a 40mm stem. Also, I am currently running a suspension fork. I don't think I really need the suspension fork anymore with the plus size tires, in fact, I find myself riding a lot of times with the fork pretty near locked out, and though I have a lot more feedback from the front end, I can actually feel the fork flexing somewhat when locked out. May as well go with a rigid fork.

My first choice is to try the Jones truss fork, but my second choice is to mount a Salsa fat-bike carbon fork...which is doable.

Greatly appreciate someone taking a few measurements for me to see if what I have in mind is viable.

Thanks!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Skrool said:


> Hello All.
> 
> Can someone help me out! I'm inclined to put a Jones truss Ti fork onto my current Ti frame, and I need a measurement to see how / if it will be doable for me.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, that isn't going to work. All Jones frames are non-suspension corrected, therefore the A-C distance of a Jones fork is way shorter than a suspension or suspension corrected rigid fork. I'm not positive about the Plus fork, but the standard Jones fork has an A-C distance of 435mm, whereas a suspension fork will be upwards of 480mm, depending on travel. It would change your bikes geometry way too much.


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## 772268 (Jun 8, 2014)

*Thanks for the input!*



bikeny said:


> Unfortunately, that isn't going to work. All Jones frames are non-suspension corrected, therefore the A-C distance of a Jones fork is way shorter than a suspension or suspension corrected rigid fork. I'm not positive about the Plus fork, but the standard Jones fork has an A-C distance of 435mm, whereas a suspension fork will be upwards of 480mm, depending on travel. It would change your bikes geometry way too much.


Thanks for taking the time to give me some input. Very much appreciated. Perhaps I might consider building up a steel version of the Jones...which is more fairly priced. But I sure will miss the feel of my current bike....which is Titanium.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Skrool said:


> Thanks for taking the time to give me some input. Very much appreciated. Perhaps I might consider building up a steel version of the Jones...which is more fairly priced. But I sure will miss the feel of my current bike....which is Titanium.


I hear you on the titanium ride, I am a fan as well...

Keep an eye out for used stuff as well, as they do pop up from time to time. Right now on Pinkbike there's a standard 29er steel Jones with truss fork complete build for less than 2K, a complete 25" Jones Plus for $3K, and a Plus frame/fork for $1100.


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

...


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

Gotta say, I really, really like it so far. 2x9, SON hub, Spykes. Never have I had a bike rip single track like this one with a full camping setup!

View attachment 1142718


View attachment 1142719


View attachment 1142720


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I should have an invoice for my Brown 24" Jones Plus 135qr tomorrow and hopefully it will ship out quickly. I've been working hard (and severely downsizing my "hoard" of cool vintage bike inventory) to swing this after all of lifes other responsibilities and today was finally the day I called Jones.

One thing I'm trying to do is build this up with a bunch of parts that have been around in my collection for a while; it was tough enough to swing the frame purchase.

My question for everybody riding one is, do you like having 180/203 rotors up front? or do you think 160 on light mtn biking would be enough. I was planning on using some Hope Mono Mini's that I have, but forgot that they are the older ones with IS mount, and I haven't found an IS to IS adaptor. The other thought was that I could sell these and some Formula R1's (which I also like, I know I'm odd) I have and probably get some ZEE's


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Jason Rides Bikes said:


> I should have an invoice for my Brown 24" Jones Plus 135qr tomorrow and hopefully it will ship out quickly. I've been working hard (and severely downsizing my "hoard" of cool vintage bike inventory) to swing this after all of lifes other responsibilities and today was finally the day I called Jones.
> 
> One thing I'm trying to do is build this up with a bunch of parts that have been around in my collection for a while; it was tough enough to swing the frame purchase.
> 
> My question for everybody riding one is, do you like having 180/203 rotors up front? or do you think 160 on light mtn biking would be enough. I was planning on using some Hope Mono Mini's that I have, but forgot that they are the older ones with IS mount, and I haven't found an IS to IS adaptor. The other thought was that I could sell these and some Formula R1's (which I also like, I know I'm odd) I have and probably get some ZEE's


You should be fine with 180 front and 160 rear. IS to IS adapters do exist, though they are harder to find theses days as most brakes are post mount. A quick Ebay search yielded this:

DP Brakes I.S. Mount to I.S. 180mm Front Disc Brake Caliper Adapter BMA09 NEW | eBay

I have a soft spot for those Mono Minis as well...


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

Jason Rides Bikes said:


> My question for everybody riding one is, do you like having 180/203 rotors up front? or do you think 160 on light mtn biking would be enough. I was planning on using some Hope Mono Mini's that I have, but forgot that they are the older ones with IS mount, and I haven't found an IS to IS adaptor. The other thought was that I could sell these and some Formula R1's (which I also like, I know I'm odd) I have and probably get some ZEE's


I have 203f/180r rotors on my Jones Plus and would choose this setup again if I built another one up since the bike carries speed well and seems to take quite a lot of stopping.

But in your situation (assuming you already have rotors) I would probably build the bike up with 160's and then put bigger brakes on if I decided I liked the bike and wanted bigger brakes.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Jason Rides Bikes said:


> I should have an invoice for my Brown 24" Jones Plus 135qr tomorrow and hopefully it will ship out quickly. I've been working hard (and severely downsizing my "hoard" of cool vintage bike inventory) to swing this after all of lifes other responsibilities and today was finally the day I called Jones.
> 
> One thing I'm trying to do is build this up with a bunch of parts that have been around in my collection for a while; it was tough enough to swing the frame purchase.
> 
> My question for everybody riding one is, do you like having 180/203 rotors up front? or do you think 160 on light mtn biking would be enough. I was planning on using some Hope Mono Mini's that I have, but forgot that they are the older ones with IS mount, and I haven't found an IS to IS adaptor. The other thought was that I could sell these and some Formula R1's (which I also like, I know I'm odd) I have and probably get some ZEE's


How much do you weigh? I've 160 mm rotors front and back on my Krampus, I'm 5'7"
And weigh 150 lbs. were I larger, l would get bigger rotors.


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## Fredsv (May 12, 2004)

I'm 185 lbs and I use a 203/180 combo with TRP Spykes. I have never felt that I had too much braking power with the plus-size tires.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Those running the Jones Plus 135 (or 148, I'll take options) with a double, particularly the Surly O.D. crankset, what front derailluer are you using? I tried running a direct mount with a direct mount adaptor but I don't quite have enough throw. I'll either get a different adaptor with more offset or a different front derailleur but I'd like to know what particular model is working for those running it? Thanks!


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## sdsyver (May 8, 2013)

MauricioB said:


> Gotta say, I really, really like it so far. 2x9, SON hub, Spykes. Never have I had a bike rip single track like this one with a full camping setup!
> 
> View attachment 1142718
> 
> ...


Want one so bad. New year maybe?!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Has anyone had success or failures with mounting a strong rear rack to their Jones Plus? If so, how have you mounted it? There's just the one bolt between the seatstays. It would probably be fine for normal stuff like bikepacking and groceries, but Ill occasionally carry a second passenger on it too.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

legopro87 said:


> Has anyone had success or failures with mounting a strong rear rack to their Jones Plus? If so, how have you mounted it? There's just the one bolt between the seatstays. It would probably be fine for normal stuff like bikepacking and groceries, but Ill occasionally carry a second passenger on it too.


I never realized the Jones didn't have rack mounts on the top of the seatstays. As versatile as his frames are, that kind of surprises me. That single hole on the seatstay bridge is for fender mounting. As you said, for a light load it should work fine. Your best bet though is to get one of these to add mounts up there for a rack:








When you say a second passenger, how big of a passenger are you talking about?


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks or the tip Bikeny. Ill probably get one of those adapters but I really like my salsa quick release. Maybe I can make something similar that mounts on the seat stays... I was pretty surprised it didn't have mounting hardware there too.
The second passenger would be my wife. We've got a small folding bike we take on short trips to local restaurants with her on the back. She's not a big cycling fan and I don't mind the extra exercise. Luckily, the little folding bike has a massive rack thats part of the frame. It only takes about 30 seconds riding the folding bike to really start missing and appreciating my Jones Plus.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi All
At the start of this post I got one of the first Blue Jones Plus 24" bike's that I build up, loved, and sold because it was too big for me!
Well that was not the end for me.
I bought one of the new Jones 23" Spaceframe Plus bike's
Here she is





































Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

Carbon H-Bar for sale

Jones Carbon H-Bar - MTBR Classifieds


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

Here's my 148 LWB
Just finished this morning. I need to bleed the rear brake as I got some air in the line when I cut it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kGmScI7sVflC32qa2

Contemplating a fat front since we got some snow and more coming I'm sure


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

Jeff told me that a 27.5 fat front is better than a 26 fat front with 29+.
I need help deciding whether to go 27.5 or 26 front.

I am running WTB Ranger right now 3"


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

belopsky said:


> Jeff told me that a 27.5 fat front is better than a 26 fat front with 29+.


Sounds like Jeff already gave you your answer.


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Sounds like Jeff already gave you your answer.


Yes, but 27.5 rims in 80mm are slim pickings..


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I would not go 26 Fat in the front of a Jones Plus with a 29+ rear wheel. It will drop the front end down too much mess up the handling. You don't need to go with an 80mm rim, something in the 65mm range would be fine as well, especially for trail riding.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

belopsky said:


> Yes, but 27.5 rims in 80mm are slim pickings..


80mm rims are easy. Bontrager and done. Unfortunately, it's 60-65mm rims that are slim pickings, and THAT'S what you really want, in order to minimize weight and to achieve a proper, rounded tire profile for steering on dry trails.*

I think there's only a stupid-expensive carbon fiber option at this point in time, but I may have missed some recent offering. After initial hopefulness for the 27 fat platform as a fat front, I eventually gave up for lack of a rim. But now that Jones is offering the long wheelbase Plus in a large size WITH standover clearance of a spaceframe, I guess I'm going to have to start searching and saving again.

(* on the other hand, the only 27 fat tires that currently get anywhere near as tall as a 29 plus tire are also really wide. So 80mm is probably fine, and definitely worth doing if it's one of your TWO front wheels.)


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Nextie Black Eagle 65 is ~$290 shipped
Sun Mulefut 65SL would be ~$150 but currently OEM only (Rocky Mountain Suzi Q)

What tire are you looking at? A Barbegazi should be good on an 80mm rim (Jackalope or Mulefut). For a Hodag I'd look at 50-65mm but it won't be as tall as a 29+ rear.


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

waiting to hear back about the fatlab 55mm rim right now so we'll see


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

1mile ride to work:

wow, love it. need a different seat. perhaps a selle w/ longer rails..


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## D_Man (Jan 7, 2004)

So for those of you who bought a complete from Jeff: does the standard "base model" plus bike (full XT, thomson, no carbon, etc) tend to run around 4K?

Just playing around with budgets and upgrades in my head to see how far things will stretch.


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## flatland (Aug 1, 2005)

Does it still make sense to ride with Maxxis Ardent 2.4 tires on i45 rims? Like they (Jones) did back in the days?


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

flatland said:


> Does it still make sense to ride with Maxxis Ardent 2.4 tires on i45 rims? Like they (Jones) did back in the days?


By "back in the days," you mean like 2014 - 2015? I'm not sure anyone can remember that far back! ;-)

Joking aside, here are my thoughts, having used that setup and having experimented quite a bit:

I think that combo yields a really good tire shape, and it handles very well. Rim is not too wide for the tire at all.

Best thing is that the overall diameter is a good match to most 26×4.5 ish tires, so a rear pairs well with a fat front. Jeff kind of pushes the 3" (or bigger) 29+ front right now, which probably DOES make a better all-around choice, but there's still nothing quite like the invincible feeling a fat front gives you. If most of your riding is on rough, twisty, technical trails, it's still probably hard to beat.

Where i ran into frustrations with the 2.4 Ardent was that it didn't have quite enough volume. But I'm on the big side at 6'2" and 200, before carrying any gear. Somene lighter would have better luck. The wide rim allows you to use a reasonable rear tire pressure (like 14 psi) to improve traction and eliminate the harsh edge of what is still a rigid, short-chainstay frame - but at the expense of LOTS of rim strikes and pinch flats. Tubeless would make sense here.

I settled on a tire that's about 2.6 (actual - not labled) because it has just enough volume to eliminate rim strikes, still fits the frame, and can still just barely be matched for diameter with the biggest of fat 26 tires. But the taller wheels did affect the handling a bit, and it's not quite as perfectly tuned as it was with the ardent and/or smaller fat tire.

The new iterations, with slacker headtubes and more rake, might be optimized for slightly taller wheels? I don't know for sure.

My current dream, now that Jones is finally building the 29+ LWB spaceframe that I've long wanted, is to get one of those with matched 29x3 wheels for certain conditions, and to keep my steel 29 (pre - swb designation) but switch it back to the smaller, better-handling ardent / BFL setup for my designated trail shredder... and to lose a bit more weight.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I think it depends on what bike you are talking about, as well as your local terrain.

This thread is about the Jones Plus, and I would say on that bike, it makes sense to go bigger. If you are talking about the older frames or what he now calls SWB, that setup could still make sense. Although now that there are some 29x2.6 tires available, those would be interesting to try on a SWB Jones. Those would actually help raise the BB a bit, which was one of my issues when I had an original Jones Spaceframe.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

bikeny said:


> I think it depends on what bike you are talking about...
> 
> This thread is about the Jones Plus, and I would say on that bike, it makes sense to go bigger.


My answer should have been clearer, but -yeah this.

Edit: it's ineresting though, that Jeff only seems to post pictures of 27 plus tires on the new SWB, which is now technically also a "Plus." I'd choose the bigger diameter of the 29 ardent over a 27 plus tire any day. As i noted, a 29x2.6 fits even the OLD spaceframe! So i can't see a downside to using 29 x i45 rims on a new SWB. You could always get a bigger tire if you don't like the ardents.


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Frame mod question.
Has any Jones Plus owner modded their frame for; belt drive, internal routed dropper post, s&s coupler, random brazeons...? If so how did it go? DIY? Post pics please.

Reason for asking is I’m thinking of eventually converting mine to belt drive and also thinking an internal routed cable mod would be cool. (Though I think the EBB probably ruins the internal cable plan) I’m also just curious to see the results of your frame mods.


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## Looptail (Mar 15, 2018)

legopro87 said:


> Frame mod question.
> Has any Jones Plus owner modded their frame for; belt drive, internal routed dropper post, s&s coupler, random brazeons...? If so how did it go? DIY? Post pics please.
> 
> Reason for asking is I'm thinking of eventually converting mine to belt drive and also thinking an internal routed cable mod would be cool. (Though I think the EBB probably ruins the internal cable plan) I'm also just curious to see the results of your frame mods.


Belt Drive:
Cycle Monkey converted an early Plus (LWB; 135 mm rear end) to Rohloff hub & Gates belt drive:
The Monkey Lab: Jones Plus Bikepacking Bike with Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 and Gates Carbon Drive

and here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/this-jones-plus-touring-bike-fat-tyres-will-conquer-almost-trail/

On my 29er Diamond, the drive-side chain stay has a round cross-section just in front of the rear dropout (coincidentally, the perfect location for a belt drive coupler).

[edit] Doh! the same place shown on the Cycle Monkey conversion [edit]

All other parts of the chain stays and seat stays are heavily manipulated (nowhere near round in cross-section), so it would be more difficult to machine a belt coupling to match the shape of the adjacent tube.

Frame couplers:
The Jones down tube is pretty big, so installing S&S couplers would depend on the available coupler sizes (in steel or ti). 
In this post from 2014, Jeff states that the Ti down tube was 1.75 inches diameter ("The down tube is a big 1-3/4 inch diameter custom butted tube").
That size is produced by S&S Machine. However, they can only be inserted into straight tubes with round cross-section. Fine for the Diamond frames, but probably not an option for the Spaceframe owners (the central top tube curves up to meet the seat tube, so I guess S&S couplers are a no-go there).

Dropper Post:
External:
You could route the dropper cable externally by using the existing bosses on the down tube, then drill a hole in the seat tube. As the seat tube is bent, I *_guess_* it's not butted (or at least not super-thin). So the wall thickness will likely be fine for drilling a hole to route a dropper cable. Also, many bikes have derailleur mounts or bottle-cage hole on the seat tube, with no ill effects.
(* I am not an engineer!  *)

Internal:
I guess this means going through the down tube, bottom bracket, and seat tube?

Down tube routing:
My down tube already has eight holes (3 bottle mounts and one Crud Catcher mount) in it as standard. So drilling out one of those (or adding another one) for dropper routing wouldn't appear to be a big deal.

However, the down tube IS butted, so I'm totally guessing whether that would work. But my local framebuilder (who builds road bikes using wafer-thin tubing) reckoned the Jones tubing was "nothing special" (i.e, pretty robust and designed to survive a beating, as opposed to the heavily butted, ultra-light, name-brand tubing that he uses for road / gravel bikes).

So I doubt that adding one more hole as a cable port (in a sensible location) would cause the down tube to implode!

Bottom Bracket routing:
The lightweight version of the Bushnell EBB (which I guess most of us have, prior to the new generation of SWB and LWB plus bikes with Jeff's own design of EBB) doesn't look good for routing cables, as you say.

The new Jones EBB has less material in the centre, so it might work (depending on how it's positioned) 
Jones Bikes Blog â€" The Jones Plus SWB is Coming!

But other EBBs (including Phil Wood, Niner BioCentric, and Wheels MFG) produce EBBs with really very little material in the centre of the shell, *possibly* allowing cable routing into the seat tube irrespective of where the EBB is positioned...?

Other braze-ons:
I'm still annoyed that my Diamond 29er doesn't have full mudguard eyelets like the new SWB frames (it has a seat stay bridge but no chain stay bridge; no upper rack mounts; only one "shared" set of lower mudguard / rack mounts -- totally minimal by Jones standards!). But another local Jones owner has found a way around that (zip ties, I think!), so it's not such a big deal.

The most recent frames have all the braze-ons one could wish for. But adding them to older frames (steel or ti) is no big deal. I'm sure the frames could withstand any braze-ons that you might want to use (the chain stays, in particular, are the beefiest on any bike I've ever owned).

As with most things Jones-related: If you're unsure, ask Jeff.

With a steel bike (but not Ti, of course), the biggest problem of adding braze-ons would be the heat-damage to the powder coat. The powder (and welding) on mine are exceptionally good for a mass-produced frame (although I've seen some more recent Jones that seem to be slightly less impressive in terms of both welding and finish).

It's strange, but although the bike itself is unique, a large proportion of them are built exactly the same: Maxxis tyres, Jeff's bars, Thomson stem and seat post, XT group set -- yawn! It seems like few owners dare to even deviate from using Jeff's bars, let alone really customise their bike. But let's face it, one size frame and one width bar is not going to be optimal for riders of all sizes, no matter how hard you want it to. As a result, my personal bike deviates substantially from the cookie-cutter Jones spec... but then I'm STILL experimenting with set-up and riding position.

But to me, custom frame mods or paint damage just provides an excuse for an awesome custom colour. I have seen a couple of repainted Jones on the Singletrack site (one in eggplant purple with a straight-blade fork, part of a batch that were made for Jeff by Vicious Cycles; the other in pistachio green, owned by Biff the EU Jones importer).

HTH


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Looptail said:


> Belt Drive:
> It's strange, but although the bike itself is unique, a large proportion of them are built exactly the same: Maxxis tyres, Jeff's bars, Thomson stem and seat post, XT group set -- yawn! It seems like few owners dare to even deviate from using Jeff's bars, let alone really customise their bike. But let's face it, one size frame and one width bar is not going to be optimal for riders of all sizes, no matter how hard you want it to. As a result, my personal bike deviates substantially from the cookie-cutter Jones spec... but then I'm STILL experimenting with set-up and riding position.
> 
> HTH


Ok. Now I'm really curious Looptail. How is your Jones setup?

By the way, thanks for the awesome detailed response. A lot of good points I hadn't thought about regarding tubing wall thickness, shape and diameters. I also fully agree with you about how frame mods (like added braze ons) are just a good excuse for having a custom color.

I think for now I'll end up avoiding S&S couplers and will just do an external routed dropper post. But I definitely see myself doing added braze ons for better rack mounts and adding a coupler for future belt drive.

Also, I just read the article about the new SWB. That new EBB design looks awesome!


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## Looptail (Mar 15, 2018)

legopro87 said:


> Ok. Now I'm really curious Looptail. How is your Jones setup?
> 
> By the way, thanks for the awesome detailed response. A lot of good points I hadn't thought about regarding tubing wall thickness, shape and diameters. I also fully agree with you about how frame mods (like added braze ons) are just a good excuse for having a custom color.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it was a bit of a "brain dump".  
But we are all here to nerd-out about bike details, so I hope it helps the discussion in some way.

Basically, my weird setup is the result of me struggling for a few years to get the standard 29er to fit me. A combination of:
Long femurs (but a Brooks saddle with short rails -- Doh!), short arm reach, and a preference for an upright riding position.

So I found the flat H-bars (prior to the new 2.5 riser version) and the lack of different size options (for both the frames and bars) to be quite limiting ergonomically (i.e, MY ergonomics, nobody else's).

You can adjust the reach to the bars by sliding your hands along the grips, but that also affects the effective grip width. And that relationship is fixed because the bars all use the same sweep and (importantly) the same width for the central section.

In turn, the overall bar position can be adjusted by changing the stem, but that affects your body position and weight distribution in relation to the frame, and also changes the steering response.

Then there's saddle height / set-back in relation to the main hand position on the bar. This is a combination of saddle height / angle / seatpost set-back / and bottom bracket position. Of course, the BB position can be adjusted... but I run my bike singlespeed. So the BB position is dictated by the gearing choice. The BB ends up where it needs to be in order to tension the chain, not where it needs to be for my ergonomics... So yeah, the bike-fit challenge is real! 

Then there's the fork. Or forks. Four of them! Three with standard Jones geometry, and one with less offset, which gives basically the same steering trail on the "classic" 29er (with a 70-degree head angle) as the revised "SWB Plus", which has (or will have, when it arrives) a slacker head angle (69 degrees).

This whole process means that I've been through multiple stems, bars, and forks, and my resulting setup is not "100% Jones". But it works best for me.

I'll post more about this at some point, if/when I work out how to explain my various ergonomic needs and my obsession with experimenting.

The shorter explanation is: I should probably be riding a LWB Plus, rather than a 29er diamond.

Until then, I see we are almost neighbours. Let me know if you're heading to the Berliner Fahrradschau this weekend...? 
:thumbsup:


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Just posted my one-year review (link) of the 29 x 3 WTB Ranger tire. Not the biggest, or the knobbiest, but it's my (current) favorite all-around tire for my 135 Plus.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf alternative to the Jones/Revelate frame bags? I have a 24" (135/brown) Plus, and was hoping to find something compatible that costs less than the $200 Jones/Revelate bag.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Could maybe look at a Blackburn Outpost...they are usually in the $60.00 range.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf alternative to the Jones/Revelate frame bags? I have a 24" (135/brown) Plus, and was hoping to find something compatible that costs less than the $200 Jones/Revelate bag.


Hi a std Revelate frame bag fits great.
I had one on my Jones Plus 24" and before you ask I can't remember the size?
Maybe it was the XL.

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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

After reading this entire thread and anything else I could find on the Jones Plus, I have drunk the Kool-Aid and pre-ordered a medium Ti Spaceframe Plus LWB. Also a pair of Jones Carbon rims and a pair of Onyx Hubs. The rest of the build will hopefully be parts I have on my Gnarvester currently. There will be pictures once I get some fingerprints on the Titanium. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

id like to throw this out here

i have the new, spaceframe, lwb in the lime green, set up as 32x21 single speed right now that i'd like to sell. i just dont think i will get to riding it as much as my other 4 bikes.

Jones 23" Spaceframe
15x150mm front
12x148mm BOOST rear

Thomson stem
Thomson seatpost
Jones H Bar 710
ESI grips
Deore XT M8000 brakes
Deore XT M8000 BOOST crank
SLX 32t chainring
21t cog
Brooks B-17
DT Swiss 15x150mm front hub
Shimano M8000 12x138mm rear hub
Race Face ARC45 rims
WTB Ranger 29x3 tires


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Stray Mutt said:


> After reading this entire thread and anything else I could find on the Jones Plus, I have drunk the Kool-Aid and pre-ordered a medium Ti Spaceframe Plus LWB. Also a pair of Jones Carbon rims and a pair of Onyx Hubs. The rest of the build will hopefully be parts I have on my Gnarvester currently. There will be pictures once I get some fingerprints on the Titanium.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Congrats and look forward to hearing your thoughts

Since getting mine 2 years ago (25" Plus LWB) I haven't looked at another bike - sounds like a good marriage?


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## Bizman (Oct 11, 2010)

I just saw this thread and thought I would post my thoughts. I have the Jones Plus 29er and took delivery around the end of July 2017. It has 135mm spacing that I needed to have them add the Xtracycle LEAP extension to make a cargo bike, the only one I know of its kind.

This bike has been awesome! It is the most comfortable 2 wheeled bike I have. It has the carbon loop bars, XT 10 sp drive train, wtb ranger tires, arch 45 wheels. After getting it I added the Bafang BBSHD motor as I would be using it as a cargo bike and for deliverys for my work. Over all though, I rarely use the motor as it pedals so nicely, even with the weight of the motor and battery!

I always wanted to write Jones and tell them they should not only market these bikes towards mountain bikes but also rails to trails (RTT). I am not a fan of RTT but did a ride with a friend for his 62nd b-day. I actually rode 76 miles and could have done more. Jones has designed the bike to be very comfortable with a more upright riding position where you can look around and see the sights, never used the motor at all!

I did not get the triangle bag and my Bafang came with a battery bag that is allot like the Jones bag, but allot less money. This bag would work well and could be purchased from Luna. They have 2 bags, one with Velcro straps and one you use wire ties. I opted for he wore tie model and it has more room and others preferred it. I needed the most room to fit the 20 ah battery.

All I can say is that I think the posters who have ordered one will be very happy! Jones bikes was very good to work with and did a great job building with my specs to add on the LEAP extension! I hope you all are as happy as I was with my Jones Plus bike and now if I could only have a TI model without the extension for riding trails.  These are super comfy well designed bikes. Sorry to go on but I love my Jones bike!

I will try a picture, hope it comes out:


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## yetiasx (Feb 6, 2006)

*jones plus 148 ta*

loving my jones plus bike its really comfy bike i just like to keep riding it all the time


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Here's mine with newly fitted Crux (very good tyre)


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Very nice. What's the actual width on the Crux?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Very nice. What's the actual width on the Crux?


Cheers. Nike rides so well

Crux - I get 83 across the knobs and 79 across the carcass


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

nice build bonesetter2004 - like it!


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

The torture never stops said:


> nice build bonesetter2004 - like it!


Thanks Torture

10 PSi seems best for the Crux up front

Anyone running them front and rear?


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

My spaceframe is supposed to ship this week. I got the Jones C- Rims last week and built them up this weekend with Onyx hubs and CX-Rays. Really stout rims and one of the easiest wheel builds I've ever done. Now just waiting for the frame to put them on.


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

Stray Mutt said:


> My spaceframe is supposed to ship this week. I got the Jones C- Rims last week and built them up this weekend with Onyx hubs and CX-Rays. Really stout rims and one of the easiest wheel builds I've ever done. Now just waiting for the frame to put them on.


That sounds good. Please send pictures if you have it there....


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

First actual ride today. Took all week to put it together, I had to buy new brakes because my XT lines were too short and that was a great excuse to pick up a set of XTR race brakes. But now it's complete. 
What a sweet ride. Fast , slow, ripping, twisty, it's just comfortable doing whatever. I like it!

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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

^ that looks well nice 

Yes, comfort is somewhat of a theme of Jeff's bikes

My Plus LWB is super comfortable, not to mention super capable in all situations. Enjoy


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## The torture never stops (Aug 31, 2008)

Stray Mutt said:


> First actual ride today. Took all week to put it together, I had to buy new brakes because my XT lines were too short and that was a great excuse to pick up a set of XTR race brakes. But now it's complete.
> What a sweet ride. Fast , slow, ripping, twisty, it's just comfortable doing whatever. I like it!


very nice bike :thumbsup: - enjoy the rides with this beauty and allways happy trails
Greetings from Germany :winker:


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## tucsonturtle (Feb 12, 2015)

*New Ti Jones Plus LWB Spaceframe*

I drove from AZ to Oregon to meet Jeff and pick up my new Jones Plus LWB Ti Spaceframe a couple of weeks ago, the bike is amazing. Far exceeded my high expectations. I went with the carbon bars and Jeff's carbon rims (29x3.25 Buldozers front and rear). I've been riding a Salsa Bucksaw (full sus fat) for the past 2 years and this bike is even more comfortable and does everything better than any bike I've ridden.

Currently riding Az White Mountains and will head back to the desert in October. As always, the bike is more capable than I will ever be but I can't imagine a trail or dirt road where it wouldn't set PRs on Strava. The comfort, handling and confidence riding this bike is incredible. I just can't say enough positive things about it.

BTW: I'm 59 years old (it was my birthday present) and have previous "issues", surgeries (3 shoulder, 3 wrist, 1 elbow, 2 knee, C-spine, L-3/4 fusion) and I've ridden the Jones on a 4 1/2 hour 40 mile ride (4,000 ft elevation gain) and felt like I'd just gotten on the bike. Mountain biking doesn't have to hurt!


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere, but it looks like Jones is offering the Plus SWB as a complete bike now for $1800.

Jones Plus SWB Complete Bicycle - Jones Bikes


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

cool to see this release. being 5'7'' with a 29'' inseam the SWB looks sweet. with parts laying around the garae i think I can put one together for cheaper than the complete. with this back on my radar let the parts scrounging begin.


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

Has anyone set up a Jones plus (LWB) with a Rohloff aside from the cyclelab article with the belt dive and cutting the frame? I see Rohloff makes a boost version of the speed hub for thru axles called the A12. After months of bikepacking through Asia and Europe and constant cleaning of mud from the dive train I'm considering switching if it's possible.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

boris_159 said:


> Has anyone set up a Jones plus (LWB) with a Rohloff aside from the cyclelab article with the belt dive and cutting the frame? I see Rohloff makes a boost version of the speed hub for thru axles called the A12. After months of bikepacking through Asia and Europe and constant cleaning of mud from the dive train I'm considering switching if it's possible.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Hi
Yes I did on my 1st Jones LWB 3+ year's ago.
The new is straight forward to fit a Rohloff too.
Just run the gear cables along with the rear brake hose/cable.
You local roll off agents will be able to put you on the line of setup.
Do you have an questions?









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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

A friend just dropped off a Jones Plus frame to get built. It will be my first time building one. I'm excited to set up the truss fork. Building the wheels tonight. I'll post pics as it goes together.


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

NZPeterG said:


> Hi
> Yes I did on my 1st Jones LWB 3+ year's ago.
> The new is straight forward to fit a Rohloff too.
> Just run the gear cables along with the rear brake hose/cable.
> ...


Thanks for the info Peter! What model plus do you have and which Rohloff model did you use? Mine is the Ti 25" with the boost spacing.

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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

boris_159 said:


> Thanks for the info Peter! What model plus do you have and which Rohloff model did you use? Mine is the Ti 25" with the boost spacing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Hi
As I said it was a 3+ year old Jones LWB 24".
Are you asking about axle standard?
If so 3 year's ago Jones LWB's only had a 135mm Q/R.
So I used a standard 135mm Q/R Rohloff Speedhub.
So now all new Jones are 148mm TA!
So you need a A12 Rohloff Speedhub.
And as I said phone your countries Rohloff dealer/agent.
Why because they have a special tools to test frame TA sized dropouts and supply the need parts!
Do not try shopping for the best price around the world (best price is in little old New Zealand) you need the support to setup a Rohloff with a TA frame.
I have run Rohloff hubs for over ten years 1st one 7 years and sold it for more than a new one!
All the best.

P

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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Ok. I lied about the pics. I was wrapping up the build last night and ran into a snag. Am I missing something or is it just a small flaw?
I was installing the rear brake and the caliper adapter doesn't fit between the mount and the rotor. I tried a few different ones I had on hand and none fit until I found the one I had machined down a little to use a front spaced hub on a rear spaced fat bike fork a long time ago. That one fits fine. This is on a 135 spaced plus frame. I built the wheel with a Bike Hub Store 135 hub. I'm using Shimano brake parts throughout. 
Other than that, the bike went together perfectly. I wasn't able to get good pics of it in the basement so I'll get a few when I get home and can take it outside.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I am a peepee. I had the end caps reversed on the rear hub. All fixed now. I weighed the bike without pedals. 28.5 pounds. Pretty good for a steel bike with 40mm rims and 29x3.25" tires.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

NYrr496 said:


> I am a peepee. I had the end caps reversed on the rear hub. All fixed now. I weighed the bike without pedals. 28.5 pounds. Pretty good for a steel bike with 40mm rims and 29x3.25" tires.


That's good news
Enjoy your new bike 

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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Pics!!

I did partially re-do my Jones lately, swapped the 26/39 rings off the O.D. crankset for a *gasp* 20/33!! Since I'm running 11-36 in back, and with my 2 year old not getting any smaller the 26/36 low gear was really tough to continue trail riding with her. Only went about 6 gear inches lower, but hopefully it'll make the current trails more managable. Next week we are going to attempt a "new" trail; as in a new trail with the trailer in tow, one I last rode 4-5 years ago. My hope is the lower gear will just allow me more "bailout" gear and still be able to spend most of the ride in the mid range of the cassette (and yes, primarily running the 20T ring...)








Sorry, buddy cut off the front half, but that is the Jones Plus 135, with my heavily modded trailer in the shop picking up a fat tube. We had just finished ~8miles on Betasso Preserve and were then running a few errands in downtown Boulder


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Props for riding Betasso with that trailer.


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## taehome (Aug 11, 2009)

Where does the little person put there feet?


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Rests them for the most part on the beam. They can dangle as well without issue. I'm working on a net type of thing that will act as a partial fender/mostly foot rest


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

So this is the Medium I built up for a friend. Truss fork, SS, 29x3.25" tires on 40mm Raceface Arcs...

Nice bike. I rode with him for the maiden voyage. That bike sticks to the ground like a magnet. Never slipped the rear tire once. It was pretty amazing.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Can someone measure the front center on a 25" Jones Plus LWB? I'm curious how it compares to a modern slack/long ETT bike.

Thanks!


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## Cheqpeddler (Jan 27, 2018)

*Standover Height*

I'm 6' 1/2" and waffling between a 24 and 25. I like that the 25 would have higher stack height and a larger space for a frame bag for bikepacking.

But I don't want to get a frame with not enough standover height.

Any advice/ experience from the group on standover clearance?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Cheqpeddler said:


> I'm 6' 1/2" and waffling between a 24 and 25. I like that the 25 would have higher stack height and a larger space for a frame bag for bikepacking.
> 
> But I don't want to get a frame with not enough standover height.
> 
> Any advice/ experience from the group on standover clearance?


Phone up Jeff with your saddle height etc.
Jeff is very helpful and happy too put you on the right size.

All the best.

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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

NZPeterG said:


> Phone up Jeff with your saddle height etc.
> Jeff is very helpful and happy too put you on the right size.
> 
> All the best.
> ...


Seconded. Jeff knows his bikes better than anyone and his sizing recommendations were spot-on for me.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Seconded. Jeff knows his bikes better than anyone and his sizing recommendations were spot-on for me.


I had a talk with him today. Interesting guy and right to the point. I've sorta had my eye on one the LWB plus for a while. I'm looking toward putting together a dedicated mountain bike this year and came to the realization that Surly just isn't working for me. Surprisingly, when I spoke with Jeff he was pretty adamant that a medium was the way to go. I have an 80cm SH, my PBH in bare feet is 91. I was really surprised. I feel like this puts me on another fit something like my old L Krampus which had a mile a post showing and 5cm of spacers and bars that were still a tad low. Still, a large seems like it would put me where I am now, on a bike that's a bit too big.

Thoughts? Experience? Picture of a medium with a similar saddle height and truss fork? Thanks!


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

dfltroll said:


> I had a talk with him today. Interesting guy and right to the point. I've sorta had my eye on one the LWB plus for a while. I'm looking toward putting together a dedicated mountain bike this year and came to the realization that Surly just isn't working for me. Surprisingly, when I spoke with Jeff he was pretty adamant that a medium was the way to go. I have an 80cm SH, my PBH in bare feet is 91. I was really surprised. I feel like this puts me on another fit something like my old L Krampus which had a mile a post showing and 5cm of spacers and bars that were still a tad low. Still, a large seems like it would put me where I am now, on a bike that's a bit too big.
> 
> Thoughts? Experience? Picture of a medium with a similar saddle height and truss fork? Thanks!


So, you're going to second guess Jeff on here?

I'd recommend you go for an XL

Seriously, you need to get a Jones, to 'get' the whole Jones thing


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Not exactly what you want to see, but here's my old size large (25" Plus equivalent to the current Large LWB), saddle height = 32"/81.cm for my 36"/91cm PBH, bars just about level with the saddle. I'm 6'3":











dfltroll said:


> I had a talk with him today. Interesting guy and right to the point. I've sorta had my eye on one the LWB plus for a while. I'm looking toward putting together a dedicated mountain bike this year and came to the realization that Surly just isn't working for me. Surprisingly, when I spoke with Jeff he was pretty adamant that a medium was the way to go. I have an 80cm SH, my PBH in bare feet is 91. I was really surprised. I feel like this puts me on another fit something like my old L Krampus which had a mile a post showing and 5cm of spacers and bars that were still a tad low. Still, a large seems like it would put me where I am now, on a bike that's a bit too big.
> 
> Thoughts? Experience? Picture of a medium with a similar saddle height and truss fork? Thanks!


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> Not exactly what you want to see, but here's my old size large (25" Plus equivalent to the current Large LWB), saddle height = 32"/81.cm for my 36"/91cm PBH, bars just about level with the saddle. I'm 6'3":
> 
> View attachment 1219903


But this illustrates my concern perfectly. I'd be shooting for a SH only 1cm shorter with the bars in practically the same place. I'd likely use it with a short stem and a 0 set-back post. SO height might be a bit tight but that's less of a concern.

Looking through the copious amounts of info on Jeff's site, it seems originally he was riding both but settled in on the med.

Part of me is temped to just go for it and try the M but I don't want to have to deal with resale if it's not quite right.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

And if I do go with a Jones Plus, once I decide on size, then I need to decide on a fork...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

dfltroll said:


> And if I do go with a Jones Plus, once I decide on size, then I need to decide on a fork...


Why wouldn't you just put a truss fork on it?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

You have to decide truss or unicrown.

I sold my blue Jones above last year, but I've been missing it since. I ordered it's replacement this morning, black LWB size large, unicrown fork. I like the normal looks of the unicrown better, and it's cheaper. And I won't have to deal with people saying, "that fork must flex to absorb shock."



NYrr496 said:


> Why wouldn't you just put a truss fork on it?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

The medium is the same size as the original Jones. You could see if you could find one of those used. They're not quite as in demand, as they don't have the tire clearance of the newer models.



dfltroll said:


> But this illustrates my concern perfectly. I'd be shooting for a SH only 1cm shorter with the bars in practically the same place. I'd likely use it with a short stem and a 0 set-back post. SO height might be a bit tight but that's less of a concern.
> 
> Looking through the copious amounts of info on Jeff's site, it seems originally he was riding both but settled in on the med.
> 
> Part of me is temped to just go for it and try the M but I don't want to have to deal with resale if it's not quite right.


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## Cheqpeddler (Jan 27, 2018)

dfltroll said:


> I had a talk with him today. Interesting guy and right to the point. I've sorta had my eye on one the LWB plus for a while. I'm looking toward putting together a dedicated mountain bike this year and came to the realization that Surly just isn't working for me. Surprisingly, when I spoke with Jeff he was pretty adamant that a medium was the way to go. I have an 80cm SH, my PBH in bare feet is 91. I was really surprised. I feel like this puts me on another fit something like my old L Krampus which had a mile a post showing and 5cm of spacers and bars that were still a tad low. Still, a large seems like it would put me where I am now, on a bike that's a bit too big.
> 
> Thoughts? Experience? Picture of a medium with a similar saddle height and truss fork? Thanks!


Before ordering my Jones Plus LWB frame I read every review I could find online. In a couple I read the comments at the end of the article.

https://nsmb.com/articles/jones-plus-long-term-review/
Jones Plus Review - BIKEPACKING.com

In the comments of these two articles both of the testers (one 6'2" and the other about 6') said they were both aware that Jeff Jones rides a 24" and recommends that size. One even said he called JJ up and he recommended a 24" but the guy went with a 25" anyway - both of the reviewers went 25" - and were still very happy.

I also called Jeff up to ask about size before I ordered (I'm still geeking out a bit that I actually talked to Jeff Jones - how many bike companies can you do that?). I'm 6'1" and he strongly recommended a 24" but after re-reading the linked reviews I went with a 25". Sure Jeff Jones knows his bikes better than I ever will. But I know me better than Jeff Jones ever will. I think a 25" will better suit my comfort needs (I have neck issues and high stack helps) and riding style.

Disclaimer: I just ordered a frame and don't yet have the funds to buy everything to build it up yet so it might turn out that I'm wrong. So don't take my word for it - read the reviews about size.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Anyone know, does Jeff have plans for more LWB Spaceframes in 24 ?


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Anyone know, does Jeff have plans for more LWB Spaceframes in 24 ?


Why?
The Spaceframe is at it's best in titanium.
The steel is at it's best as a diamond frame.
I have had a 24" (which was the smallest at the time) and now I have a 23" Spaceframe LWB which looks good but the diamond rode better and was a little bit lighter.
I would love to have a Titanium Spaceframe LWB 23" for the ride it's designed to work with comfort.
A Jones is all about the ride and not the look.
If you're interested in only the look and not the ride? phone up Jeff Jones and ask.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> You have to decide truss or unicrown.
> 
> I sold my blue Jones above last year, but I've been missing it since. I ordered it's replacement this morning, black LWB size large, unicrown fork. I like the normal looks of the unicrown better, and it's cheaper. And I won't have to deal with people saying, "that fork must flex to absorb shock."


Ahaa.


----------



## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

Cheqpeddler said:


> Before ordering my Jones Plus LWB frame I read every review I could find online. In a couple I read the comments at the end of the article.
> 
> https://nsmb.com/articles/jones-plus-long-term-review/
> Jones Plus Review - BIKEPACKING.com
> ...


One of those reviews I had seen, the other I hadn't, so thanks. Yeah, I'm really sorta torn on this. To further complicate things... I've been eyeing the Tumbleweed Prospector. There's some things I really like about it but... I'm sorta looking for a dedicated mountain bike and I think the Jones is more along those lines. Decisions, decisions...


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

dfltroll said:


> One of those reviews I had seen, the other I hadn't, so thanks. Yeah, I'm really sorta torn on this. To further complicate things... I've been eyeing the Tumbleweed Prospector. There's some things I really like about it but... I'm sorta looking for a dedicated mountain bike and I think the Jones is more along those lines. Decisions, decisions...


Look I have had 3 Jones and work in a Mountain Bike Shop.
I love the LWB for hard core mountain biking and the old Jones 29" (now the SWB) is great but not as good for hard core single tracks.
I still ride fully mountain bikes for work and ride the demo's.
So I own a Jones LWB Spaceframe 23 and have a new Ritchey Ultra as my second bike.

A Jones is just so much fun and if you have any questions just phone Jeff and ask.
I have Jeff over the years a number of times
He's always helpful.
Also this is two great podcast interviews with Jeff that I have learnt so much more about Jones is setup.

All the best

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

I spoke with him again and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on a unicrown LWB frameset. I want something unique, capable and fun and that pretty much seems like the Jones.

Thanks everyone here for all the help and sharing your experience.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> You have to decide truss or unicrown.
> 
> I sold my blue Jones above last year, but I've been missing it since. I ordered it's replacement this morning, black LWB size large, unicrown fork. I like the normal looks of the unicrown better, and it's cheaper. And I won't have to deal with people saying, "that fork must flex to absorb shock."


Do you still have parts laying around for putting it together? That'll be the tough part for me, getting it together. I may likely go SS at first.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

dfltroll said:


> I spoke with him again and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on a unicrown LWB frameset. I want something unique, capable and fun and that pretty much seems like the Jones.
> 
> Thanks everyone here for all the help and sharing your experience.


I have been thinking to change my Jones LWB Spaceframe to a Unicrown fork for a better ride.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I picked up the wheels earlier in the summer on ebay. I was sorta planning on getting the frame, and they were too good to pass up: front is a Nextie Jungle carbon rim, DT 350 hub, WTB Ranger tire, and XT rotor ($200 shipped), and the rear is a Bontrager Line wheel, just 30mm wide internal, but that will work fine, $50 or so.

Once I had the wheels, I guess it was only a matter of time. I'm hoping the lighter front wheel will alleviate my previous issues with 29+ bikes, the heavy inertia feel of the front wheel when I make a fast turn.

I also have a Soma Osprey bar (Jones H bar knockoff), that will probably get traded for a Jones Loop when my bike budget recovers. Hoping my old Suntour XC Pro square taper crank will fit, probably going single speed as well, at least at first. A pretty budget/mixed up mutt build, at least until I sell off some other bikes. Then I might go to a new 11 speed build.



dfltroll said:


> Do you still have parts laying around for putting it together? That'll be the tough part for me, getting it together. I may likely go SS at first.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I figured that much. A bit heavier, less compliance 
I bought one of the original steel spaceframes from 2011, when there were no size choices and no diamond frame. The look is unique and I like it.
I got it. The other Jones thread explains it exactly. Thanks


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> You have to decide truss or unicrown.
> 
> I sold my blue Jones above last year, but I've been missing it since. I ordered it's replacement this morning, black LWB size large, unicrown fork. I like the normal looks of the unicrown better, and it's cheaper. And I won't have to deal with people saying, "that fork must flex to absorb shock."


Has your frame arrived? Will you be able to get it together soon?

After all this I ended up hitting pause on picking up the Jones frame. I did sell yet another one of my bikes, my Cross Check. In the process of selling my Ogre. I did order a Crust Evasion frame as I continue to desire a drop bar dirt worthy bike. My intention is still to put together a dedicated mountain bike, and likely a Jones but I'm just holding off for now. Heading into winter I'll get more use out of the Crust.


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

dfltroll said:


> I spoke with him again and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on a unicrown LWB frameset. I want something unique, capable and fun and that pretty much seems like the Jones.
> 
> Thanks everyone here for all the help and sharing your experience.


Good call. I'd get one o' them if I didn't already have the Jones 29er and Stooge B plus.

Ryan


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

rcnute said:


> Good call. I'd get one o' them if I didn't already have the Jones 29er and Stooge B plus.
> 
> Ryan


Hey Ryan, could you share a few words on those bikes compare?
Cheers


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Got it Thursday, built it Thursday, rode it Friday. And Saturday. And today (took Sunday off for a family trip).










The short version of my impressions is that you should click over now and buy one. You can read my longer build and ride description here.

I liked my first Jones, but had a few niggles with it and sold it. I like this one better, and I think it's a keeper. I have a lighter front wheel (carbon wheel), and that seems to keep the steering lighter, even at high speeds. This has a been a concern for me on other 29+ bikes I've had. And the Jones is just so good at everything, it's a great mountain bike AND a great utility bike AND a great gravel bike. It's like the honors/starting QB/Eagle scout/nice guy that we all wish we could've been.



dfltroll said:


> Has your frame arrived? Will you be able to get it together soon?
> 
> After all this I ended up hitting pause on picking up the Jones frame. I did sell yet another one of my bikes, my Cross Check. In the process of selling my Ogre. I did order a Crust Evasion frame as I continue to desire a drop bar dirt worthy bike. My intention is still to put together a dedicated mountain bike, and likely a Jones but I'm just holding off for now. Heading into winter I'll get more use out of the Crust.


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## CGrr (Aug 30, 2010)

^ You must be really tall. I’m 5’8.5” when I wake up in the morning and 5’8” at the end of the day and would be concerned about the LWB being more bike than I want to deal with. Is that the 24 or 25?


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Hey Ryan, could you share a few words on those bikes compare?
> Cheers


There's something that the Jones has in terms of handling that the Stooge doesn't, but I can't put my finger on it. A touch more responsive up front and the back tracks a little better rounding turns. As time goes by I am liking 27.5x2.8 so the Stooge is the one that usually gets ridden. If anyone is interested in taking the Jones off my hands drop me a line.

Ryan


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

That's the 25"/Large model. I'm 6'3" with a 36" pubic bone height, saddle set at 32" from the bottom bracket.



CGrr said:


> ^ You must be really tall. I'm 5'8.5" when I wake up in the morning and 5'8" at the end of the day and would be concerned about the LWB being more bike than I want to deal with. Is that the 24 or 25?


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## CatfishRacing (Nov 30, 2009)

Hey Ryan, hit me up off list.
[email protected]
Thanks.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> That's the 25"/Large model. I'm 6'3" with a 36" pubic bone height, saddle set at 32" from the bottom bracket.


Your bike looks great. So I sold off more stuff, got the Evasion built and now back to looking towards setting up a Jones LWB in 2019. After reflecting on my Evasion fit, the way the Ogre fit and looking at your Jones, I can't help but think that when the time comes I'll go with a large. Here's a picture of my XL Evasion I'll post elsewhere about this beast.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

dfltroll said:


> Your bike looks great. So I sold off more stuff, got the Evasion built and now back to looking towards setting up a Jones LWB in 2019. After reflecting on my Evasion fit, the way the Ogre fit and looking at your Jones, I can't help but think that when the time comes I'll go with a large. Here's a picture of my XL Evasion I'll post elsewhere about this beast.


The Evasion looks greeat! Do you prefer the rear bag to a front mounted rack/bag? 
What size tires are you running? Looks like a fun ride.

~mike


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

senor_mikey said:


> The Evasion looks greeat! Do you prefer the rear bag to a front mounted rack/bag?
> What size tires are you running? Looks like a fun ride.
> 
> ~mike


The tires are Surly 26"x2.5 ETs on WTB i35 Asym rims. The tires measure out to 2.6. My plan is to run 2.8 Rangers next summer or maybe even 3.0. It'll apparently fit 3.0 but I think the clearance would be tight. Looking on IG and elsewhere, lots of folks are running27.5x2.8.

As for the bag... I've had that one for a little over 10yrs and it works pretty well. I used to run a Berthoud front bag on my bike when I was randonneuring but sold it off. I might look more towards a front rack and basket combo. We'll see. I have a Surly 24pack rack I might be able to mount up.


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## davidmcowan (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm very seriously considering pulling the trigger in the next day or so as I've been in search of one bike to do everything. Based on reviews and reading here, I'm convinced it will do my bidding while mnt biking, riding gravel, and occasionally bike packing. Anyone here have reports on how a Jones Plus serves as a regular commuter? Winter warrior? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm hoping to sell off the rest of the quiver and focus on the simplicity of one bicycle for awhile.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

If I had to downsize to one bike (from six), my Jones LWB would be it. It's a fine mountain bike, but comfortable on the road as well. It's at least as good of a utility bike as my Rivendell Clem Smith. Probably not the ticket for fast group road rides, but I don't do those.



davidmcowan said:


> I'm very seriously considering pulling the trigger in the next day or so as I've been in search of one bike to do everything. Based on reviews and reading here, I'm convinced it will do my bidding while mnt biking, riding gravel, and occasionally bike packing. Anyone here have reports on how a Jones Plus serves as a regular commuter? Winter warrior? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm hoping to sell off the rest of the quiver and focus on the simplicity of one bicycle for awhile.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I would also be in a similar camp. I bought the Jones Plus 135 (now LWB) after having a child and realizing that I didn't need the FS/HT bike anymore. It was my choice to replace the bikes that saw limited use anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to build up a second wheelset even, maybe a lighter weight one that you could run a faster roller tire, like a Vee Speedster, or even go skinnier in the 29x2.3/4 range, although the Maxxis hookworm is nice, it is HEAVY.


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

davidmcowan said:


> I'm very seriously considering pulling the trigger in the next day or so as I've been in search of one bike to do everything. Based on reviews and reading here, I'm convinced it will do my bidding while mnt biking, riding gravel, and occasionally bike packing. Anyone here have reports on how a Jones Plus serves as a regular commuter? Winter warrior? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm hoping to sell off the rest of the quiver and focus on the simplicity of one bicycle for awhile.


I have an SWB, and with winter set in I've been forced to stick to pavement and gravel for the last month or so. If I had to make due with only one bicycle this would definitely be it due the comfort/capability, but it's not a spritely bike on pavement with 3" Maxxis Chronicles.

Compared to my "road" bike - a Salsa Vaya that's not exactly light - I average 3-4mph slower on the pavement on the Jones. That's partially the bike and MTB gearing and partially the fact that the Jones makes it comfortable to just cruise along the pavement and not be in a hurry if you want.

I think if I was going to own just the Jones, I would invest in a second wheelset with more road-oriented tires for pavement. That way you could swap over and save your knobbies from getting worn out on a daily commute.


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## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

I've been commuting on a SWB Spaceframe since October. I have over 400 miles on it and it is fantastic. Am I slower than on my gravel bike? Sure. Do I arrive at work or home less fatigued and more relaxed? Absolutely. 

In a couple years when I move back to the mountains I'll put some knobby tires on it and be ready to enjoy the single track. My commute this morning was pretty slushy but I barely noticed it. It really is a great all around ride.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

^ I think you echo the core of Jones in 'great all round'


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

In the trail, bike touring and bike camping. This is the only bike i have now.









Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm liking the SWB so far (after ditching Chronicles) as a mountain bike, but I'd want something lighter and sportier if I was forced to pick one do it all. But I have more than ten bikes in the garage (I forget how many exactly), so consider the source...

Ryan


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

Anyone experimented with a 27.5x3.0 or bigger? Will it change the bike feel dramatically?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## davidmcowan (Feb 4, 2014)

essjss said:


> I've been commuting on a SWB Spaceframe since October. I have over 400 miles on it and it is fantastic. Am I slower than on my gravel bike? Sure. Do I arrive at work or home less fatigued and more relaxed? Absolutely.
> 
> In a couple years when I move back to the mountains I'll put some knobby tires on it and be ready to enjoy the single track. My commute this morning was pretty slushy but I barely noticed it. It really is a great all around ride.


Essjss, what kind of tires do you roll for commuting? I'm thinking two wheelsets.

Also, anyone set theirs up fixed gear? My commuter has been fixed in winter to help deal with the Minnesota nastiness, i'd likely aim for the same on this bike if it is possible. Anyone have thoughts on how to do that?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

rcnute said:


> I'm liking the SWB so far (after ditching Chronicles) as a mountain bike, but I'd want something lighter and sportier if I was forced to pick one do it all. But I have more than ten bikes in the garage (I forget how many exactly), so consider the source...
> 
> Ryan


What did you replace your Chronicles with - those WTB's in your pic?


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## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

davidmcowan said:


> Essjss, what kind of tires do you roll for commuting? I'm thinking two wheelsets.


I'm on Schwalbe G-Ones in 27.5x2.8". So far they are really nice for getting around town and they set up tubeless no problem. A second wheelset would be fantastic. Maybe before I need the off road tires I'll be able to afford that.


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## rcnute (Jul 31, 2006)

bonesetter2004 said:


> What did you replace your Chronicles with - those WTB's in your pic?


Yep, Trail Boss in front and Ranger in the rear.

Ryan


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## simen (Oct 21, 2004)

Mine. After 3years without my first Jones Spaceframe 29 I had to take this one. SWB was an option but most of my rides these days are endurance or bikepacking rides. Feels longer, more stabile and so comfortable.


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## phil_rad (Dec 28, 2007)

Although I enjoy riding my other bikes I probably would pick my Jones Plus as the "one" bike to do it all. I don't participate in group road rides either. Mostly gravel/all-road riding, MTB geared and SS, hardtail and a fully. I'm getting old too 

Phil

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

seat_boy said:


> Got it Thursday, built it Thursday, rode it Friday. And Saturday. And today (took Sunday off for a family trip).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does that have the Bushnell EBB or the new pinch-bolt shell?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Bushnell. I would have preferred the pinch bolt style, maybe that's only on the SWB?



cjbiker said:


> Does that have the Bushnell EBB or the new pinch-bolt shell?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

seat_boy said:


> Bushnell. I would have preferred the pinch bolt style, maybe that's only on the SWB?


Seems like they're phasing the new BB in. Some colors/sizes/configurations have it. Hopefully when I'm ready to pull the trigger, it will be available with the unicrown fork.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

cjbiker said:


> Seems like they're phasing the new BB in. Some colors/sizes/configurations have it. Hopefully when I'm ready to pull the trigger, it will be available with the unicrown fork.


My LWB I have just received has the pinch type


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

bonesetter2004 said:


> My LWB I have just received has the pinch type


Unicrown or truss fork?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

cjbiker said:


> Unicrown or truss fork?


Truss


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Truss


The truss is way cooler, but the absence of proprietary parts and simpler installation has me leaning toward the unicrown fork.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

davidmcowan said:


> Essjss, what kind of tires do you roll for commuting? I'm thinking two wheelsets.
> 
> Also, anyone set theirs up fixed gear? My commuter has been fixed in winter to help deal with the Minnesota nastiness, i'd likely aim for the same on this bike if it is possible. Anyone have thoughts on how to do that?


You might be able to use your current hub/wheel with a disc-fixie cog. There used to be a few more vendors (e.g., TomiCog), but a 5 second google search yielded only VeloSolo:









https://www.velosolo.co.uk/disccog.html


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

cjbiker said:


> The truss is way cooler, but the absence of proprietary parts and simpler installation has me leaning toward the unicrown fork.


Front hub is a fat bike hub

Choose your rim

I run with the 3.25 Crux which is a great all-round, all-year tire


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Front hub is a fat bike hub
> 
> Choose your rim
> 
> I run with the 3.25 Crux which is a great all-round, all-year tire


I was referring to the headset as proprietary. Maybe not 100% accurate, but it's not a part you'll find everywhere. The unicrown fork takes a 150mm fat bike hub, too.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

cjbiker said:


> I was referring to the headset as proprietary. Maybe not 100% accurate, but it's not a part you'll find everywhere. The unicrown fork takes a 150mm fat bike hub, too.


You use two 'tops' for the HS
Or a Jones one

The benefits of the truss fork are quite significant


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Did a nearly full strip down of my brown Plus 135 last week. Rebuilt the wheels today, lost 250ish grams between the pair of wheels, will try to get pics tomorrow. Unsure of exact direction the rebuild will take right now


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

I have a question.

Does 150x15mm dynamo hub (PD-8X-150) fits on a 148x15mm truss fork? 
Or should I go with PD-8X-110 with a hub convrrsion kit adapter 110x15mm to 148x15mm?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

I think you are confused about the Front hub size. The current Jones bikes all use a 150x15 front axle. The rear is a 148x12. There is no 148x15 now or in the previous models.

What bike are you looking to put a Dynamo on?


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

essjss said:


> I think you are confused about the Front hub size. The current Jones bikes all use a 150x15 front axle. The rear is a 148x12. There is no 148x15 now or in the previous models.
> 
> What bike are you looking to put a Dynamo on?


Yes you are right. Its 142x15mm.

So looks like i have to get the adapter then.

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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

rasidi said:


> Yes you are right. Its 142x15mm.
> 
> So looks like i have to get the adapter then.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


You are still confused. All current Jones forks are 150x15. The hub you mentioned will work without any adapters.


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

bikeny said:


> You are still confused. All current Jones forks are 150x15. The hub you mentioned will work without any adapters.


Haha .. maybe this man confused me ..

https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-135-142-f-hub/

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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

rasidi said:


> Haha .. maybe this man confused me ..
> 
> https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-135-142-f-hub/
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


That hub is for the older Jones forks that were 135 or 142.

Once again, all current Jones forks are 15x150.

What fork do you have?


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?

1. Headset?
2. Steerer tube? What length?
3. BB?
4. Derailleur hanger?
5. Thru axles?

Going by the picture on the website: I would say everything but the headset on my list. What additional parts might one need, e.g. spacers for the truss fork?

If I want to run 29' x 3.0 wheels and a 2x crank, do I need a Surly OD crank? My intended use is for a bikepacking rig. Okay, it looks like I was reading an old owner's manual, and the new owner's manual says:



> *Drive train notes*
> Your Jones Plus frame is designed around the Boost standard, and must be used with a Boost crankset. Boost cranks position the chainrings 3mm farther outboard than standard cranks, and are key to getting proper tire clearance with 27.5 x 3" tires on the Jones Plus SWB and 29 x 3" tires on the Jones Plus LWB. As long as you use Boost cranks in a double (2x) or single (1x) chainring configuration, you can use any style of drivetrain and combination of gears on the bike. In addition to the Boost crankset, you will need a 148x12mm (Boost spacing) thru-axle rear hub. This combination allows us to use cranks with a low Q-Factor (also known as tread), while being able to use tires up to 3.25" wide.


Thanks.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

happyriding said:


> What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?
> 
> 1. Headset?
> 2. Steerer tube? What length?
> ...


Yes, you get everything but the headset on that list. I assume by BB you mean the eccentric BB shell though. It's probably best to order the headset from Jeff too. In terms of headset spacers I can't remember what is included - from memory it can be helpful to have a few thinner (1 and 2.5 mm) spacers in addition to some taller ones to get the fit with the truss fork right.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

happyriding said:


> What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?
> 
> 1. Headset?
> 2. Steerer tube? What length?
> ...


You will need a headset, order one at the same time as the frame from Jones, as it's not a standard headset.

You will need a bottom bracket to match whatever crank you want to run. As stated in that paragraph you attached, you can run any Boost crank you want.

It comes with the thru axles.

All the info you asked for is on the website:

https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-steel-plus-lwb-diamond-frame-with-steel-truss-fork/


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> In terms of headset spacers I can't remember what is included - from memory it can be helpful to have a few thinner (1 and 2.5 mm) spacers in addition to some taller ones to get the fit with the truss fork right.


Okay, I'll order the spacers.



> It's probably best to order the headset from Jeff too.





bikeny said:


> You will need a headset, order one at the same time as the frame from Jones, as it's not a standard headset.


Yep, I'm planning on doing that.



> You will need a bottom bracket to match whatever crank you want to run. As stated in that paragraph you attached, you can run any Boost crank you want.


I thought the EBB was a bottom bracket, lol.



> It comes with the thru axles.
> 
> All the info you asked for is on the website:
> 
> https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-steel-plus-lwb-diamond-frame-with-steel-truss-fork/


Well, on that page it says:



> Fork Specs:
> ...
> ...
> TA Bolt required, but not included.


So does the frame and fork come with both a rear and front thru axle? Or, do I need to order a front thru axle?

No frame bags in stock.


----------



## WonderBoy (Apr 18, 2004)

Looks nice! Medium I guess, and how tall are you if I may ask. 182 myself and torn between medium and large...


----------



## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

WonderBoy said:


> Looks nice! Medium I guess, and how tall are you if I may ask. 182 myself and torn between medium and large...


I'm 6'0" tall with a average ratio of leg to torso. On a Plus LWB Spaceframe. It's a 24 which I think is medium in Jones. Jeff said he is my size and he made the 24 for himself so it would be perfect for me. He's right.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

happyriding said:


> Okay, I'll order the spacers.
> 
> Yep, I'm planning on doing that.
> 
> ...


That's weird about the thru axle. Right at the top of that page it says the following:

This is a frame, fork, EBB (eccentric bottom bracket), front and rear TA bolts, water bottle bolts, clips, and standard derailleur hanger.

Give him a quick call to be sure, but thru axle frames and forks generally come with the required thru axles.

As for the bottom bracket, sounds like you need to educate yourself on what an EBB is. It's an Eccentric Bottom Bracket which allows the location of the bottom bracket to be rotated giving adjustment to the BB height and chainstay length. You still need to provide the actual bottom bracket, which mounts into the EBB and will be matched to whatever crankset you end up getting.

I would suggest giving Jeff a call before ordering. He is very responsive and will take the time to talk you through everything you need to know.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> That's weird about the thru axle. Right at the top of that page it says the following:
> 
> This is a frame, fork, EBB (eccentric bottom bracket), front and rear TA bolts, water bottle bolts, clips, and standard derailleur hanger.


I just noticed that myself. That text is in a bigger font than the text below it, so the bigger text must be determinative!

Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Thru axles are definitely included in the package

It would be mad if they were not


----------



## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

happyriding said:


> I just noticed that myself. That text is in a bigger font than the text below it, so the bigger text must be determinative!
> 
> Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?


NZPeterG recommended me an XL Revelate Ranger Frame Bag for a 24" Jones Plus. My only guess is you go bigger for a 25", I think but the biggest Revelate has is an XL.









Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Thanks bonesetter2004! Thanks for the picture rasidi!

What about a wheelset recommendation? I was thinking of running 29 x 3.0 tires, like Maxxis Chronicles, so I need a fat rim. The Jones C rims are awful pricey, and they are out of stock anyway. I'm really hard on rear hubs and rims, so I need something durable. I plan on running a Schmidt dynamo hub in the front (SON 28 15 150mm) so no prebuilt wheels for me.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

I went Scraper i50 

3.25 Crux front which i run all year round, and same rim rear, Chronicle occasionally going more mud eg Surly mudhugger


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I went Scraper i50


Are you sure those aren't i45? According to the WTB website, the widest rim they offer is i45.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Sorry yes. i45


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

I'm another 6' 3" rider (there are several that posted to this thread). What stem length/seat post combo would people recommend with the Jones Loop bar (710mm)? The only thing I have to go on is:



> The Jones H-Bar works best when the main
> grip area is approximately the same height as
> the saddle, and far enough back toward the
> saddle to allow you to sit very upright when holding the rearmost portion of the grip area, so that you have easy access to the front positions
> as well. To achieve this, _*you may need a significantly shorter and/or higher rise stem*_.


Is there a geometry chart somewhere for the 25" LWB?


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Is there a geometry chart somewhere for the 25" LWB?

No!

Phone up Jeff Jones and talk with him.

A Jones bikes are not a standard bike and geometry is very different. 

All the best.


Sent from my SM-T590 using Tapatalk


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

davidmcowan said:


> I'm very seriously considering pulling the trigger in the next day or so as I've been in search of one bike to do everything. Based on reviews and reading here, I'm convinced it will do my bidding while mnt biking, riding gravel, and occasionally bike packing. Anyone here have reports on how a Jones Plus serves as a regular commuter? Winter warrior? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm hoping to sell off the rest of the quiver and focus on the simplicity of one bicycle for awhile.


I'm in Minnesota; as a commuter I would not ride the Chronicles- they are rather slow and you'll notice it. Its pretty good in winter though, although this year everything has been dicey with all the snow. I've got mine set up with a Rolhoff. Despite what Jeff says about them the Rolhoff is da bomb. In snow the ability to shift *right now* is the difference between going or falling over.



happyriding said:


> Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?


I just got the Revelate bag that Jeff sells off of his website. I got the fork bags too. I rode the Plus on the Tour Divide last year. It was faster than my Cutthroat I took the year before! I tried like crazy to get a seat bag that wouldn't rub against the rear wheel and could actually hold some stuff; gave up and went with a Tubus frame and Rogue Panda panniers, which were designed for bikepacking abuse.

The Revelate bag worked great despite plenty of rain, mud and dust on the Divide. Revelate made the fork bags too; they worked fine as well. One thing I really liked about them is they solved the water bottle problem as the bags are equipped with a proper sized pocket for bottles. Being inside the bag they couldn't rattle out on some of the descents and there was still plenty of room for food.

I kept my water pump, first aid kit and repair kit in the top pocket of the frame bag. A spare tube and a water bottle went in the bottom. The frame bag matches up with the Revelate gas tank so it all went together nicely.

Due to a resolution error in my Garmin I got off route on the first day and didn't discover the error until the end of the nest day when wifi was around. So I bypassed Koko claims and took the Elk River Trail to Fernie instead. Lots and lots of single track, and the Jones rules in single track even loaded up. It was raining a lot too but the Jones was really sure footed. Overall one of my favorite bikes. One thing I really noticed is that on this trip no hand tingling, no knee problems, no joint issues at all. Comfort is a big deal on long trips and the Jones might be one of the most comfortable bikes I've ridden.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> I just got the Revelate bag that Jeff sells off of his website.


Not in stock, unfortunately. 



> I tried like crazy to get a seat bag that wouldn't rub against the rear wheel and could actually hold some stuff; gave up and went with a Tubus frame and Rogue Panda panniers, which were designed for bikepacking abuse.


What about a smaller frame so that you can get the seat high enough for a seatbag? Like this bike:









Or, are you already on the smallest frame? Without a seatbag, did you run a dropper post? What wheels/tires did you run for the TD?



> I rode the Plus on the Tour Divide last year. It was faster than my Cutthroat I took the year before!


More. Please. More. Kit, stories, pictures, whatever.


----------



## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

I think I'm gonna get a non-roll type bag fro the front. ie: Fabio chest or jumbo jammer from roadrunner. I think either would fit well on a h-bar with truss fork. The jones truss bags are def great. The seat boner bags are great but when they get out back to far they wag hard. one that either has a frame (ie: porcelain rocket) or hugs the psot work best IMO.


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## CatfishRacing (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm guessing that was Ralph from St. Paul, MN.
I read about his bike before the Grand Depart here.
Tour Divide Rigs 2018 - BIKEPACKING.com
I thought that was a great page.
Definitely got my mouth watering.
I wish there was more info (and pictures) though.


----------



## CatfishRacing (Nov 30, 2009)

I can't see the link in my last post but I clicked on the space and it worked.
I'll try to edit from a PC later.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Not in stock, unfortunately.
> 
> What about a smaller frame so that you can get the seat high enough for a seatbag? Like this bike:
> 
> ...


Jeff was adamant I was on the right size, but a smaller frame would have allowed a seat bag. Usually if you have a frame too big, you have fit issues but I had none. Jeff doesn't like seat bags- he likes added weight to be down lower if possible. I was running a Thudbuster and that is part of the reason the seat bag didn't work out.

He insisted that the Chronicles were a fast tire. I was assembling the bike in the spring of 2017 and at the time that might have been the case (the bike was not ready in 2017- that year I took the Cutty). I found them frustratingly slow on pavement. He also insisted that about 11 pounds was right in the front and a little more in the rear; that wasn't right for me either. I trained with the full gear (fork bags, frame bag, gas tank, panniers and trunk bag) and found that I just needed more air to make the bike go. By the time I headed out to Calgary, I had 13 psi front and 16 psi rear. But even that proved to be too low and added a few more psi while on the ride. The bike was about 55 pounds with water fully loaded.

On gravel and dirt the Chronicles did just fine- when coasting on descents others on 2.2s and the like were no faster but the difference was I hardly had to slow down for the bumps. I'm running 203mm rotors front and rear with BB7s. I don't like hydraulic brakes for the Divide; I've had hydraulics freeze up on me in the past; in the middle of nowhere that's not a comforting thought. The Jones stops faster than any other bike I've ridden and the 203s help significantly with the pad life.

Progress was slow as I was riding with a friend and right away on the first day I realized that the trip was going to be about preserving the friendship over the next few weeks. If you plan to race the Divide, don't plan to ride with a friend! He only had about 60 miles a day in him and took well over an hour in the morning to pack up!

On the third day we took the single track from Elkford to Fernie (known as the Elk Valley Trail). A huge time suck but the Jones really proved itself. We had caught up a number of other riders the first day and were still with them on that day too. On that day I discovered that where most people were walking their bikes up steep grades, I could clip in and pedal, and although I was not a lot faster, I was faster, so from then on I rode over passes that two years before had me HAB.

Regarding clipless, its to your advantage to move the clips back so you're a bit more forward on the pedal. You can make more power and less troubles with knees.

The only mechanical I had was shift cables that frayed inside the Rohloff shift housing. There's not a lot of clearance in the housing and the cables were rubbing against it. They have to be trim and tight enough that this does not happen! I replaced the cables in Ovando.

This year I'm out on the Divide again. I'm using Jones carbon bars this time- they are supposed to be more comfortable because of how they deal with vibration. Hopefully I have plenty of time to sort that out. The snow is still here! If Jeff ever gets his carbon rims back in I think I'll go with those too. Its a lot of cash for a slight loss in weight, but if there is going to be a weight reduction, that's the best place to have it. Jeff maintains that they don't make that much difference, but he's basing that on constant speed. On the Divide you are rarely moving at a constant speed, you're always accelerating and de-accelerating. So the longer you're on a ride, the more that will make a difference.

The first year I went out, I carried far too much water. Until you get to Butte, you are better off just carrying maybe 2 1/2 bottles of water and pumping water before you run out. The first year I carried a liter bottle of water over 350 miles before I opened it up, and there was surface water everywhere!

Another tip- if you can make it to Wise River and still be going strong, you've got the Divide in your back pocket. There are no significant passes until you get past the Tetons at that point and Wyoming has only two passes (both are high though). So getting out of Montana isn't that hard at that point (as long as you don't encounter peanut butter on the Bannock Trail) - once you get to Idaho your chances of completing the ride are significantly higher.

Most people scratch well before that. Knee problems are common along with hand and neck issues. This is where the Jones shines- The upright riding position helps with the neck and hands. Make sure you err on the short side with the cranks; my inseam is 30" so 170s are about as long as I can manage. In 2017 the Cutty had 175s and I had knee problems- but I had no issues at all in 2018. It pays off on longer rides like this to spend the time to make sure all your fit issues are sorted: they all interact! For example, if your cleats aren't set right, sooner or later it will affect your hands. On a short trip its probably not a big deal but on longer trips small things add up. So its worth it to spend the time to make sure everything is right.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> I think I'm gonna get a non-roll type bag fro the front


.
What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?



> Tour Divide Rigs 2018 - BIKEPACKING.com
> I thought that was a great page.


Yep, I've already poured over it.



> This year I'm out on the Divide again...The snow is still here!


Right now?!! NoBo or SoBo? Who would be crazy enough to start SoBo this early in the year? There was 3" of snow in Phoenix, AZ ten days ago!



> Jeff doesn't like seat bags- he likes added weight to be down lower if possible.


That's generally the same thought with road touring bikes, but I thought the whole idea behind bikepacking seatbags was to be as narrow as possible, for single track, which I guess is irrelevant for most of the TD.



> I don't like hydraulic brakes for the Divide; I've had hydraulics freeze up on me in the past;


From cold temps? I hadn't thought of that. I was wondering why so many people use BB7's. I thought they were crazy because I've never cut a hose on XT hydraulic brakes, which I assumed is why they used BB7's.



> On that day I discovered that where most people were walking their bikes up steep grades, I could clip in and pedal, and although I was not a lot faster, I was faster, so from then on I rode over passes that two years before had me HAB.


Hah! I was riding a steep hill a year ago on my full suspension mtb, and I slowly churned by a 70 something hiker, and she looked at me as I passed, and she said, "That's as fast as you can go??"



> Regarding clipless, its to your advantage to move the clips back so you're a bit more forward on the pedal.


I have size 14 feet, and I always ram the cleats as far back as they can go, and as far as I can tell they are never positioned far enough back, but my knees don't seem to mind.



> Knee problems are common


Do you think that's from lack of training, i.e. not enough climbing miles, or running gears that aren't low enough?



> hand and neck issues.


Along with back aches, I get those on long rides, too.



> Make sure you err on the short side with the cranks;


I've used 175mm cranks my whole life on road bikes, touring frames, and mtbs. I can't imagine switching to something shorter. Leonard Zinn believes tall people should be taking advantage of the leverage in their legs by running 180's-190's.

What tires are you running this year if not Chronicles? What length stem are you running?


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> .
> What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?


You can make it happen. I don't like the weight up that high- tried it.



> Right now?!! NoBo or SoBo? Who would be crazy enough to start SoBo this early in the year? There was 3" of snow in Phoenix, AZ ten days ago!


No- training now- if I can get outside. Leaving in June.



> From cold temps? I hadn't thought of that. I was wondering why so many people use BB7's. I thought they were crazy because I've never cut a hose on XT hydraulic brakes, which I assumed is why they used BB7's.


No- from dirt contaminating either the caliper of the master on the brake lever. I've had both happen. The Divide has a lot of that sort of thing.



> Do you think that's from lack of training, i.e. not enough climbing miles?


No- people do this thing on single speeds, the record being around 15 days. Knee problems arise from incorrect seat placement, incorrect handlebar placement, incorrect cleat placement and cranks that are over-long.


> Along with back aches, I get those on long rides, too.


This last year I was with a guy that hit a bump while descending the Galton Pass; when he came down on his saddle the hit re-injured an old back injury and he was out of the race just like that. I ride with a Thudbuster- its a lot easier on the back. 


> I've used 175mm cranks my whole life on road bikes, touring frames, and mtbs. I can't imagine switching to something shorter. Leonard Zinn believes tall people should be taking advantage of the leverage in their legs by running 180's-190's.


It they are really tall they can do that. But the most important part about the leverage is the knee. Think about how hard it is to hold a standing pose with your knees bent at 90 degrees and stand up, as opposed to when they are only bent at 45 degrees. You actually have more leverage, more ability to push the crank down if its too short as opposed to too long.

The industry really doesn't like to talk about this topic and there is a lot of misinformation! But if a person needs a different seat height and frame size it should follow that the crank size is just as important. The problem is that you might be fine on longer cranks for a day or two, but try that for a week or two and see how you feel! So the industry gets away with it.

https://ridefar.info/2017/02/crank-length-and-comfort-for-long-distance-cyclists/

What tires are you running this year if not Chronicles? What length stem are you running?[/QUOTE]

The stem is 70mm and I'm experimenting with some Vitorria Bombolonis. I tire that is just a little faster is all I am looking for and the Vitorrias are supposed to shed mud pretty well...


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Do TD riders use dynamo tail lights? Where do they attach them if not using racks?


----------



## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Salubrious said:


> No- people do this thing on single speeds, the record being around 15 days. Knee problems arise from incorrect seat placement, incorrect handlebar placement, incorrect cleat placement and cranks that are over-long.
> 
> This last year I was with a guy that hit a bump while descending the Galton Pass; when he came down on his saddle the hit re-injured an old back injury and he was out of the race just like that. I ride with a Thudbuster- its a lot easier on the back.
> 
> ...


I think the slack seat tube on the Jones bikes can help, too. This allows the rider to sit further back and recruit the glutes and hamstrings more, instead of just using their quads, which is harder on the knees. Most other modern mountain bikes have seat tubes that are way too steep for bad knees, in my opinion.


----------



## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

happyriding said:


> .
> What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?
> 
> Handle bar rolls obviously work well with the truss fork, I am just interested in a more practical user friendly setup.
> ...


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

wilson1417 said:


> happyriding said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


I ran into the convenience thing too. That's why I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking. They are much easier to use. I keep my sleeping system in them. Completely waterproof, don't move around and really really tough, but you need a rack. The Tubus is the best I've seen. What's nice about this setup is it puts more weight in the rear and the bags aren't any wider than my legs so wind drag isn't a thing. The weight in the rear is handy if you have to do some HAB since pushing the bike over a rock or log is harder if the rear of the bike wants to come up! Obviously the panniers don't interfere when doing HAB.

The rack also allows for a trunk bag so my setup looks more like a traditional touring system except that everything employs dry bag closures and the like. With a trunk bag, a frame bag isn't essential- you can get by with a Revelate Tangle bag and use the frame space for water. It looks like I'm carrying a lot of stuff on my bike, but my bags aren't tightly packed so I have plenty of room for food. Definitely handy if you discover that your expectations of when you're getting to a town aren't going to be met!


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> The seat boner bags are great but when they get out back to far they wag hard. one that either has a frame (ie: porcelain rocket) or hugs the psot work best IMO.


From what I've read, PorcelainRocket's Mr. Fusion seatbag is pretty hard to obtain.



> I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking.


I just realized that with a seatbag, you cannot get off the back of your seat for steep technical descents, so panniers seem like they have an advantage in that regard as well.



> If Jeff ever gets his carbon rims back in I think I'll go with those too


What's the story with those rims, i.e. when are they in stock? I'm trying to determine if the carbon rims would be a better investment than a Ti frame.


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> What's the story with those rims, i.e. when are they in stock? I'm trying to determine if the carbon rims would be a better investment than a Ti frame.


Depending on who you talk to, weight on the circumference of a wheel is worth about double what it is elsewhere on the bike, or maybe 3x, again depending on who you talk to.

The Ti frame is about 4 pounds lighter than the steel isn't it? If that is the case, a set of carbon rims are worth about 1 pound on the frame as opposed to aluminum, since there is about a 1/4 pound difference between an alloy rim (WTB Scrapers) and Jeff's carbon rims.

When you're climbing that's where the weight of the bike really makes a difference. despite that I'm sticking with the steel frame for now- in order to get a TI frame, I have to get a boost spacing Rohloff as well, and I'm just not up for it. But if you're not planning a Rohloff, then the TI frame makes more sense than the carbon rims.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Salubrious said:


> Depending on who you talk to, weight on the circumference of a wheel is worth about double what it is elsewhere on the bike, or maybe 3x, again depending on who you talk to.
> 
> The Ti frame is about 4 pounds lighter than the steel isn't it? If that is the case, a set of carbon rims are worth about 1 pound on the frame as opposed to aluminum, since there is about a 1/4 pound difference between an alloy rim (WTB Scrapers) and Jeff's carbon rims.
> 
> When you're climbing that's where the weight of the bike really makes a difference. despite that I'm sticking with the steel frame for now- in order to get a TI frame, I have to get a boost spacing Rohloff as well, and I'm just not up for it. But if you're not planning a Rohloff, then the TI frame makes more sense than the carbon rims.


Your analysis make some sense, but your weights are way off. Comparing weight between a medium Ti diamond frame with Ti truss fork vs. medium steel diamond frame and steel truss fork, the Ti setup is 1.75 lbs lighter. The difference for a large will be a bit more, but nowhere near 4 pounds.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Here are the weights for a 25" (Large) LWB:


```
5.52 lbs  -- Ti frame
2.52 lbs  -- Ti truss fork
----------
8.04 lbs  

6.83 lbs  -- steel frame
3.08 lbs  -- steel truss fork
----------
9.91 lbs
```
So, the Ti frame with truss fork is 1.87 lbs lighter than the steel frame and fork.

Carbon rims are an extra $1180, while the Ti frame and fork are an extra:


```
$4,250 -- Ti frame and fork
- $1,375 -- Steel frame and fork
  ---------
  $2,875
```


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Here are the weights for a 25" (Large) LWB:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Dang! In that case the rims seems the better option to me.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Does anyone have any idea when the Jones C-rims may be in stock?


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> Dang! In that case the rims seems the better option to me.


Hold on there! I found this article: Cycling science: Do light wheels beat a light frame?

which claims:



> In reality, mass saved from the rims of wheels is likely to be less than 10% more beneficial than the same mass saved from the rest of the bike.


----------



## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Salubrious said:


> I ran into the convenience thing too. That's why I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking. They are much easier to use. I keep my sleeping system in them. Completely waterproof, don't move around and really really tough, but you need a rack. The Tubus is the best I've seen. What's nice about this setup is it puts more weight in the rear and the bags aren't any wider than my legs so wind drag isn't a thing. The weight in the rear is handy if you have to do some HAB since pushing the bike over a rock or log is harder if the rear of the bike wants to come up! Obviously the panniers don't interfere when doing HAB.
> 
> The rack also allows for a trunk bag so my setup looks more like a traditional touring system except that everything employs dry bag closures and the like. With a trunk bag, a frame bag isn't essential- you can get by with a Revelate Tangle bag and use the frame space for water. It looks like I'm carrying a lot of stuff on my bike, but my bags aren't tightly packed so I have plenty of room for food. Definitely handy if you discover that your expectations of when you're getting to a town aren't going to be met!


Unfortunately Nick at Rogue Panda is not making panniers anymore, hold on to those things! I always wanted a pair from him but never pulled the trigger. However for the Jones Truss fork the Jones for bags looks great!. Seems that there are plenty of other small pannier options, the sweet spot size seems to still being figured out.


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Hold on there! I found this article: Cycling science: Do light wheels beat a light frame?
> 
> which claims:


Yes- as I mentioned- it all depends on who you talk to 

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=7559

I've been trying to get my head around the TI frame question as well. To me it boils down to cost- I basically have to build up a new bike to get that 1.87 pound advantage...


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Salubrious said:


> Yes- as I mentioned- it all depends on who you talk to
> 
> https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=7559
> 
> I've been trying to get my head around the TI frame question as well. To me it boils down to cost- I basically have to build up a new bike to get that 1.87 pound advantage...


Pricey grams


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

It's not just the grams. Ti has that nice springy "supersteel" feeling. On a fully rigid bike it's worth something. At least that's how I justified the extra coins.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Oh, you said it was just down to the grams...

Well, the springy supersteel thing is a bone (er) of contention if you mean comfort

Ask Jeff (and others' experience) and they will tell you a steel LWB has way more comfort


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> Ti has that nice springy "supersteel" feeling. On a fully rigid bike it's worth something. At least that's how I justified the extra coins.


I started off with a 59cm steel road bike, after getting a professional fit by a guy who was 6' 8" and about 270 lbs. I was skeptical about buying a frame that size, but the fitter assured me that was my correct size. After building up the bike, it became readily apparent to me that the bike was waaay too small for me. After trying longer and higher and higher rise stems, I moved on to a 66cm (C-C) Ti road bike, and that springy Ti feeling is pretty amazing.

And Ti does not rust! I hate putting framesaver on steel bikes: it's toxic and it creates a terrible mess.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

For those riding 25" LWB frames and Jones H-bars, can you post your saddle height, the setback of your seatpost, and stem length? I want to try and extrapolate an approximate stem length for my saddle height of 83cm. I don't know whether I should be trying a 100cm stem or a 50cm stem. I want the bars to be level with the saddle, and the more you raise the saddle height and bars, the shorter the cockpit becomes because the seat tube angle is 71 degrees and the head tube angle is 67.5 degrees.

Thanks.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'm almost exactly your size (82cm saddle height). Here's my 25" Jones LWB, straight block post, 60mm stem, 65mm of spacers under the stem, 170mm cranks. The bars are just about exactly level with the saddle:











happyriding said:


> For those riding 25" LWB frames and Jones H-bars, can you post your saddle height, the setback of your seatpost, and stem length? I want to try and extrapolate an approximate stem length for my saddle height of 83cm. I don't know whether I should be trying a 100cm stem or a 50cm stem. I want the bars to be level with the saddle, and the more you raise the saddle height and bars, the shorter the cockpit becomes because the seat tube angle is 71 degrees and the head tube angle is 67.5 degrees.
> 
> Thanks.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

seat_boy! I've read this entire thread several times and your setup and SeaBass_'s setup are the ones I've been paying the most attention to. So you went from a 100mm stem to a 60mm stem? Did you ever try a setback post like you mentioned?


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

1. Jones H-bar pack? The shallow one, the deeper one, or neither?

2. Grips: Kraton standard, Kraton soft, or EVA foam?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

On my original blue Jones, I briefly tried a shorter stem with a setback seatpost, but I really didn't like it. There wasn't enough weight on the front, and I found myself sliding forward on the saddle all the time.

I might switch to a longer stem as I get more fit and flexible over this summer, but I'm enjoying the more upright position of the shorter stem for now.



happyriding said:


> seat_boy! I've read this entire thread several times and your setup and SeaBass_'s setup are the ones I've been paying the most attention to. So you went from a 100mm stem to a 60mm stem? Did you ever try a setback post like you mentioned?


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## timboat (May 6, 2010)

Hey all- so just reading most of this thread that i am subscribed to, I look like I would fall into the 24"/med frame for the LWB (5' 11"). I am wondering what the actual measurement from axle to axle would be for this fine machine? I have a bunch of $$ invested in ti Mukluk, which is very capable of just about anything (less single track). I really like the fact that the Jones is a longer bike, and being so would think it would track better and not be as squirrely as a shorter wheel based bike. They were talking about this when I saw a post on the newer Salsa Black borrow. So then would it be worth it to change horses to a Jones..... thinking out loud.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

timboat said:


> Hey all- so just reading most of this thread that i am subscribed to, I look like I would fall into the 24"/med frame for the LWB (5' 11"). I am wondering what the actual measurement from axle to axle would be for this fine machine?



Wheelbase
24" LWB: 1175mm or 46.26″
25" LWB: 1205mm or 47.44″


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

seat_boy,

Are your 170mm cranks (and EBB position?) helping with pedal strikes?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Yes. I keep the bottom bracket near the top position as well, for that reason.



happyriding said:


> seat_boy,
> 
> Are your 170mm cranks (and EBB position?) helping with pedal strikes?


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## mbudd (Oct 14, 2008)

I'd get the Jones (Revelate Ranger) frame bag from Jones himself. I got the larger frame bag for my Jones Plus LWB 25" and the fit is perfect.



rasidi said:


> NZPeterG recommended me an XL Revelate Ranger Frame Bag for a 24" Jones Plus. My only guess is you go bigger for a 25", I think but the biggest Revelate has is an XL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

mbudd said:


> I'd get the Jones (Revelate Ranger) frame bag from Jones himself. I got the larger frame bag for my Jones Plus LWB 25" and the fit is perfect.


Perfect. Lots of space for lots of stuffs.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Salubrious said:


> I was assembling the bike in the spring of 2017 and at the time that might have been the case (the bike was not ready in 2017- that year I took the Cutty).


By Cutty, do you mean a Salsa Cutthroat? If so, can you compare your Cutthroat to your Jones Plus?


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

rasidi said:


> NZPeterG recommended me an XL Revelate Ranger Frame Bag for a 24" Jones Plus. My only guess is you go bigger for a 25", I think but the biggest Revelate has is an XL.


Thanks for the suggestion. I sent Revelate an email, and they said they wouldn't recommend a Ranger for a 25" Jones Plus. Their recommendation: get a Jones frame bag.

Can you explain your handlebar setup in the picture here:

https://forums.mtbr.com/custom-buil.../jones-jeff-jones-1006728-4.html#post13891454


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

happyriding said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I sent Revelate an email, and they said they wouldn't recommend a Ranger for a 25" Jones Plus. Their recommendation: get a Jones frame bag.
> 
> Can you explain your handlebar setup in the picture here:
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/custom-buil.../jones-jeff-jones-1006728-4.html#post13891454


The Revelate Sweetroll strapped in the back (for clothing). Remember to include additional block-spacers for Jonesbar.

Then a 1.5 men tent (1.5kg) sits infront/atop of the Sweetroll. The vestibule goes into one of the fork bag and the tent poles, stakes, floor mat are in the framebag.

A big shopping bag to consolidate the saddle pack, handlebar packs, and anything fork packs for easy transport. It separates the hoodie and the slippers.

The camouflage net is for covering my face when i sleep in the open and for general wash.

Then finally the Revelate Pocket for snacks and electronics.

I was gifted the fork side bags (anything bags) and keep the alcohol stove, pots, and the vestibule. The side bags have straps for the truss fork legs and held up by paracord.

The setup for my last South Korea (Seoul to Busan) trip.









Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

That setup looks great.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> By Cutty, do you mean a Salsa Cutthroat? If so, can you compare your Cutthroat to your Jones Plus?


On flat ground the Cutty was faster. I took it to a mtb park and realized that if I wanted to have fun with it I would need a suspension fork. So I installed the one Salsa recommends. This really helped out a lot- otherwise the bike was a handful and my hands weren't up to it. Now I should note that at the time I was not playing around with air pressure all that much. But one time while running the Firestarter I was riding the local river bottoms all fat dumb and happy and suddenly found myself in a bush by the trail. In the fading light I had missed a branch laying across the trail. It was not that big, (maybe 2" in diameter) but it took me off the bike. So this influenced my thinking to get a suspension fork as well. That sort of thing in the middle of nowhere could be really bad if luck were not on your side.

But shortly after I got back from the TDR I finished my Jones build. On the single track I could easily go faster than I could with the Cutty. I also found I could climb easier and faster, despite the Jones being a good 12 pounds or heavier. Descents proved to have similar speed as the Jones was simply easier to control- I didn't have to use the brakes as much.

I built my Jones with 203 rotors front and rear with BB7s and its got the most powerful brakes of any bike I've ridden. I don't know what Salsa was thinking with the rotors on the Cutty, but they need to make them bigger. If nothing else, the brake shoes last longer. By the time I got to Helena on the Cutty in 2017 they were done.

Finally, the Jones is more comfortable. Even though I had the Woodchippers up pretty high and despite my working on bike fit for weeks, on the TDR I experienced hand and elbow issues (my elbows tend to get tendonitis) as well as my neck was complaining. A lot.

The Jones was way more comfortable! While riding day after day for twice as long as I could manage on the Cutty, I didn't have any injuries at all. No numbness, no tingling, just a sore butt on occasion. I'm still working on the saddle thing but if no luck it will be the WTB Speed again this year.

So the direct comparisons in my case are in favor of the Jones: faster and more fun in single track (loaded or not), better climbing and descents, more comfortable, but slower on flat ground, especially pavement. I suspect a lot of the latter has to do with the Maxxis Chronicles; they are pretty noisy on pavement so that might be part of the speed issue. The Cutty had Teravail Sparwoods, which worked well on the TDR in general. It'd be nice if there was a tire like that in a 2.8" but 29+ is pretty limited. My biggest concern about the bike is that 29+ will die out, but that doesn't seem to be happening.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Thanks rasidi!


> Remember to include additional block-spacers for Jonesbar.


Uhm...what does that mean?



> On flat ground the Cutty was faster.


How much of the Divide looks like this:







(photo by TD winner Josh Kato)


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

happyriding said:


> Thanks rasidi!
> 
> Uhm...what does that mean?


https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/handlebar/JonesLoopBarKit

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> How much of the Divide looks like this:
> View attachment 1245491
> 
> (photo by TD winner Josh Kato)


There are places like that in the Great Basin (this photo was taken just before entering the basin), between Lima and Island Park and so on. The reason the Cutty was faster was the tires and whether that is the case on gravel and such is really variable depending on moisture, how hard packed the surface is, how recently it was graded and so on. For this reason I've been looking at different tires that might be faster on hard pack than the Chronicles without giving up a lot on other surfaces. I can tell you though when you get into peanut butter its going to stop you no matter what you're riding. Because of the variable terrain, its hard to say what tire width is optimal for the whole route but the people that have been winning have been on narrower tires, although too they also have been going with far less sleep.

Josh is great with a camera!


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Salubrious said:


> So the direct comparisons in my case are in favor of the Jones: faster and more fun in single track (loaded or not), better climbing and descents, more comfortable, but slower on flat ground, especially pavement. I suspect a lot of the latter has to do with the Maxxis Chronicles; they are pretty noisy on pavement so that might be part of the speed issue. The Cutty had Teravail Sparwoods, which worked well on the TDR in general. It'd be nice if there was a tire like that in a 2.8" but 29+ is pretty limited. My biggest concern about the bike is that 29+ will die out, but that doesn't seem to be happening.


You may want to check out the 2.8" Teravail Coronado. The tread is more aggressive than what's found on the Sparwood, but it rolls better than Maxxis' Chronicle.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> You may want to check out the 2.8" Teravail Coronado. The tread is more aggressive than what's found on the Sparwood, but it rolls better than Maxxis' Chronicle.


Thanks! I've been looking at the Vee Rubber Speedster and Bombolini; another to add to the list. Have you ridden this tire? Compared to the Chronicles, how noisy is it on pavement?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Salubrious said:


> Thanks! I've been looking at the Vee Rubber Speedster and Bombolini; another to add to the list. Have you ridden this tire? Compared to the Chronicles, how noisy is it on pavement?


The Coronado is definitely smoother/quieter than the Chronicle. I have Coronados on my Jones (135 Plus) and really like them. The only Speedsters I've ridden are the 26" versions on my single-speed BMX rig (haven't tried the Bomboloni). Another tire worth considering is WTB's Ranger. The light/supple 29 x 3.00 are surprisingly quiet on the road.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> The Coronado is definitely smoother/quieter than the Chronicle. I have Coronados on my Jones (135 Plus) and really like them.


What is it you like about the tire- rolls easier, apparently- anything else?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

happyriding said:


> How much of the Divide looks like this:
> View attachment 1245491
> 
> (photo by TD winner Josh Kato)


One hell of a lot.

But what, specifically, do _you_ see in that picture that you're asking about?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Salubrious said:


> What is it you like about the tire- rolls easier, apparently- anything else?


The light/supple version feels much livelier w/o drastically reducing volume/footprint. My experience with the Chronicle, however, has been somewhat limited.


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## Stubby44 (Sep 28, 2017)

Long time lurker here. This thread really has me interested in a Jones bike. It is neat to see the builds everyone is doing! Keep it coming!


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

mikesee said:


> But what, specifically, do _you_ see in that picture that you're asking about?


Flat gravel roads is what I see, and I was trying to figure out whether an XL Salsa Cuthroat with 2.2 Maxxis Icons would be a better bike for the Tour Divide than a large(25") Jones Plus with 3.0 tires. Salubrious likes his Jones Plus better. I read a review elsewhere where the guy switched to a Cutthroat and walked more sections than a previous attempt but knocked two days off his time. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether it's even valid to compare times across different years due to differences in weather.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

happyriding said:


> Flat gravel roads is what I see, and I was trying to figure out whether an XL Salsa Cuthroat with 2.2 Maxxis Icons would be a better bike for the Tour Divide than a large(25") Jones Plus with 3.0 tires. Salubrious likes his Jones Plus better.


My gut reaction is that 3" tires are too heavy, slow, and just generally overkill for the divide route. It's largely like that pic -- flat gravel/dirt, with some (potentially a lot, depending on the year and the season) mud ruts and washboard sprinkled in.

The only caveat is if you don't care about pace -- if you're taking, say, 2 months to do the route. I still don't see a benefit to 3" tires, but at that pace who cares?


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

> I can tell you though when you get into peanut butter its going to stop you no matter what you're riding.


What do you do then?


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Flat gravel roads is what I see, and I was trying to figure out whether an XL Salsa Cuthroat with 2.2 Maxxis Icons would be a better bike for the Tour Divide than a large(25") Jones Plus with 3.0 tires. Salubrious likes his Jones Plus better. I read a review elsewhere where the guy switched to a Cutthroat and walked more sections than a previous attempt but knocked two days off his time. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether it's even valid to compare times across different years due to differences in weather.


Weather plays a huge role! If you're leaving with the Grand Depart, its likely that you might not be able to go as fast as later in the year- like in August. But there is more light and that is why the GD is in June. You might want to see if you can find out what the weather was like on the two rides that guy did.

If there is a lot of rain, wider tires are helpful unless it goes to peanut butter. Some spots on the route are notorious for that and other spots it just doesn't.

Your age and physical state has a lot to do with it IMO/IME. I'm older and have enough injuries (the most serious being in my back) so comfort of the bike to me is paramount. But a younger person without physical ailments can do better on a bike like the Cutty since they can put up with more discomfort- neck issues, hand tingling, that sort of thing- its a harsher ride. Tire pressure of course plays a role and how well the bike is set up to fit you is a big deal- get something a little off and you might not notice it over 4-5 days of riding, but over a couple of weeks it might be an injury taking months to heal.

The newer Cutty is a little better set up than my 2016 version- the Sram Eagle is more common on them and they take slightly larger brake rotor diameter now. But they still have that press fit bottom bracket  For me to make a Cutty work I'd need to change out the bars and cranks and probably install a Rohloff. I don't like the brake rotor limitation- its harder on brake shoes and the Divide is hard on brake shoes as it is. I also don't like hydraulic brakes- had too many problems with them.

On an ultra endurance event comfort is really important. The simple fact is being able to ride longer days can make a difference if you are not the fastest rider. @mikesee makes a good point about tire width- I've really been debating this issue but for me it appears that I will be able to ride longer if I go with the wider tire simply due to comfort (although the VRS thing that Salsa has is nice). The Jones allows you to adjust the bracket height to allow for lower volume tires but one thing you can't count on with the Divide is hard packed light gravel like in your photo (this was taken just prior to entering the Great Basin; the race departs from the GDMBR in the Basin where a bit of single track is added- single track that seems to exist only because of the TDR). To me this tire width issue can be helped a little by looking at the 27.5+ tires which are quite popular on the Divide. The 29+ size has better rollover and so greater comfort. Finding the ideal pressures for a giving set of terrain is going to take some fiddling as its different depending on how much weight is on the tires- you, your kit and all the food and water.

Regarding the peanut butter, if you get stopped by that quite often you are reduced to HAB; it can be pretty frustrating. I found the additional float to help- but if it gets soft enough you're going to have to get off the bike.

I don't agree with Mike that 3" tires mean you're reduced to 2 months  You're considered in the race if you can do 100 miles a day or better and that's no problem with 3" tires. I'm likely doing 2.8" tires this year. The Divide is anything - there are flat areas, but it might help to see how much climbing is done over a 100 mile area that's 'flat'  Even the Basin has places so steep you have to HAB. Again, the advantage of the Jones IME over the Cutty is its a better climber, better descender, better on single track and overall more comfortable.

The big deal on the Divide isn't what bike you're on! Its about how well you manage things- your equipment, your physical state, your supplies, your expectations, your spiritual and mental state. If you do that well you'll do well. Suck at any one of them and you could be out.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Thanks bonesetter2004! Thanks for the picture rasidi!
> 
> What about a wheelset recommendation? I was thinking of running 29 x 3.0 tires, like Maxxis Chronicles, so I need a fat rim. The Jones C rims are awful pricey, and they are out of stock anyway.


FWIW Jones seems to have the C rims back in stock.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Anyone have a 24" Plus LWB frameset to sell? (diamond w/ truss fork) Looking for an older 135mm frame.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

2:01 said:


> Anyone have a 24" Plus LWB frameset to sell? (diamond w/ truss fork) Looking for an older 135mm frame.


I'm selling mine - latest boost and pinch type BB...


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I'm selling mine - latest boost and pinch type BB...


What are you asking for it?

Update: Looks like bonesetter is in UK. I am in the States.


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

That's my baby. Plus 135 in steel, Gates/Rohloff drivetrain. I'm going to be selling my other bikes, because the Jones just gets used for everything. Just curious where you guys think the money would be best spent. My short list includes carbon hbars, ti truss fork, carbon rims and dynamo front hub. I don't have the cash to do all of that though. Just wondering where you think I'd get the most bang for the buck.

Right now, the bike is used to commute to work, trails, gravel, dirt, and shorter bikepacking trips, but next February I'll be leaving my job and just touring for 18 months or so. Probably 95% stealth-camping and 5% fleabag motels. All kinds of weather, and as much unpaved riding as possible.

So what upgrades would you suggest?


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

MrkT said:


> View attachment 1247361
> 
> 
> That's my baby. Plus 135 in steel, Gates/Rohloff drivetrain. I'm going to be selling my other bikes, because the Jones just gets used for everything. Just curious where you guys think the money would be best spent. My short list includes carbon hbars, ti truss fork, carbon rims and dynamo front hub. I don't have the cash to do all of that though. Just wondering where you think I'd get the most bang for the buck.
> ...


Experience would say always wheels first. Nice carbon rims to reduce the rotational mass. Then maybe ti fork. Then other carbon bits.

Having said that. You're going on tour. I would rather just stick with what you've got now, since it looks like you've got a nice set up. Then save the cash for the tour. Seriously, weighing your bike down with 70lbs of touring gear, half a pound saved here and there doesn't make sense--especially at the cost. Save your money.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

MrkT said:


> View attachment 1247361
> 
> 
> That's my baby. Plus 135 in steel, Gates/Rohloff drivetrain. I'm going to be selling my other bikes, because the Jones just gets used for everything. Just curious where you guys think the money would be best spent. My short list includes carbon hbars, ti truss fork, carbon rims and dynamo front hub. I don't have the cash to do all of that though. Just wondering where you think I'd get the most bang for the buck.
> ...


I'm not a fan of dynohubs myself. I hear of them failing quite often on the Tour Divide. IMO you are better off with a battery that has a solar panel on it, one that has dual USB outputs. You can charge it when you get to the occasional motel. I'd carry a dual output charger for that but make sure its padded well so vibration doesn't kill it. I run the battery on my handlebars right by my gps.

I'd make sure you have a spare belt BTW. They're light and if you break one you can be really screwed. All it takes to break one is a rock that lands just right (maybe dripping off of your tire in muddy conditions) and goes between the belt and the rear sprocket. The belt will snap instantly. I'm a big fan of the Rohloff- bring a little bottle of lube for it if you see dust clinging to the spokes. Oil does manage to work its way out of them over time and miles.

Depending on the terrain you cover, you might consider a dropper post, as you can do that since you have a rack. I run a Thudbuster so a dropper is out of the question for me.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

MrkT said:


> So what upgrades would you suggest?


1. Proper leather saddle.

2. Good battery-powered headlight if you don't already have one, for night riding.

3. Whitewater boat of your choice.

4. College or retirement savings account.

Seriously - I totally understand the draw of spending money on bikes but, if it's already everything you need - and it sounds like it is - then why bother? I find nothing heavy feeling about the steel truss fork, so I could never justify a Ti one. Same thing with an expensive but fragile plastic handlebar or rims which are the embodiment of low return-on-investment. Enjoy perfection, build up some patina and the street cred that goes with it, and be poised to take advantage of something really important when it comes along. That's my feeling anyway - YMMV.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

2:01 said:


> Anyone have a 24" Plus LWB frameset to sell? (diamond w/ truss fork) Looking for an older 135mm frame.


pm'd


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Aside from the Jones and Hope Fatsno hubs, are there any other options for 142mm front T/A hubs?


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

If you can find the salsa hubs that came stock on the beargrease that hub works very well.


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## GregMun (Feb 18, 2019)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Aside from the Jones and Hope Fatsno hubs, are there any other options for 142mm front T/A hubs?


The only ones I am aware of are the pricey Industry Nine Hydra Fatbike Hubs

https://wheelbuilder.com/industry-nine-hydra-classic-fatbike-front-hub/

and a company in Germany, Tune. They are a little less expensive but you would have to order them from one of the German/European shops

https://r2-bike.com/TUNE-Hub-front-Fat-King-15x142-mm-Thru-Axle


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Thanks for the hub tips. Looks like Hope's Fatsno can be had for less than a Jones 142/135.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

I just finished rebuilding my wheels with Jones C rims, bladed spokes and Vee Rubber Speedsters. 

My old wheels had WTB Scrapers and Maxxis Chronicles. The new wheels are a little lighter, but they are a lot faster. They steer different from the self steer of the Chronicles so that's taken a bit of getting used to. The Speedsters are 2.8" rather than 3.0". There's a lot less noise from the pavement now. I've ridden on hard pack and they're fine- I plan to do some single-track soon to see how they work. If they seem to be holding up I'll be riding the Speedsters on the Divide this June.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Salubrious said:


> You're considered in the race if you can do 100 miles a day or better and that's no problem with 3" tires.


Ha! You TD riders are hard core!



> I'm not a fan of dynohubs myself. I hear of them failing quite often on the Tour Divide.


Have you heard of a SON dynamo hub failing? I did a 3,500 mile self supported road tour on a SON hub, and I left my front and rear lights on all day, and I didn't have any issues. Not the same terrain as the TD, though.



> I just finished rebuilding my wheels with Jones C rims, bladed spokes and Vee Rubber Speedsters.


Nice!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

iamkeith said:


> 3. Whitewater boat of your choice.
> 
> 4. College or retirement savings account.
> 
> Seriously - I totally understand...


#winning.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

happyriding said:


> Ha! You TD riders are hard core!
> 
> Have you heard of a SON dynamo hub failing? I did a 3,500 mile self supported road tour on a SON hub, and I left my front and rear lights on all day, and I didn't have any issues. Not the same terrain as the TD, though.
> 
> Nice!


If you're out there with no other particular activity in mind it really isn't that hard. Its all a mental game. You do have to be good at management- especially your expectations but physical, mental, equipment and so on. If you can do that. you can do well. You don't have to be in perfect shape physically because the mental aspect is so important.

I've heard of several Sons failing. On the Tour Divide inevitably you encounter mud, dust and rain. For some reason the bearings in dynohubs don't seem to hold up as well- keeping mind that hub failures in general are more common on the TDR.

I use a solar powered battery that has dual USB outputs and can be recharged via a mini USB port. It has about 12 amp hours so it takes about 2 weeks to make a dent in it, assuming that I'm charging my GPS every day and my lights about once every three days. I honestly think batteries such as this ($25.00 on ebay) have eclipsed dyno hubs.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> keeping mind that hub failures in general are more common on the TDR.


There is no evidence for this.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

mikesee said:


> There is no evidence for this.


How many blog posts and YT videos do you need to see? Maybe read a few editions of the Cordillera (www.lulu.com search on "The Cordillera")... Ultraendurence events like the TDR, AZT, CDT and so on are hard on components. I think you are looking for proof, not evidence- there's plenty of evidence!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> How many blog posts and YT videos do you need to see? Maybe read a few editions of the Cordillera (www.lulu.com search on "The Cordillera")... Ultraendurence events like the TDR, AZT, CDT and so on are hard on components. I think you are looking for proof, not evidence- there's plenty of evidence!


I build wheels for a living, full time. I get a lot of requests for wheels specifically for the events you mentioned. I've also ridden and raced the events you listed, and many, many more.

For the past 10+ years I've built a few dozen dyno-hub wheelsets per year for people going to race these events.

A few dozen per year x 10+ years = a few hundred dynohubs out there.

I have yet to hear of a single failure. Not one.

Clearly there are lots more dynohubs out there that I haven't seen or touched, and thus that I will never hear about. But if there was a pattern of failure it would apply across the board, and there's no evidence of any pattern. None.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2018TourDivideRace/
Scroll down until you see the Shimano dynohub; read Nelson Carters' comment, but look at the opening comments too- there is a reason they are commenting about reliability as a thing. That is by no means the only comments about dynohubs failure that have been discussed on Facebook- there are 4 separate groups plus an endurance bikepacking group and this topic comes up multiple times.

So now you've heard about it. There isn't this sort of discussion about regular front hubs FWIW. I was trying to find a YT video for you to look at as well, I think it was Paddy Rast that posted several and in one he says 'that sound' is the dynohub falling apart. Didn't have time to find which one though.

I get that you've not heard of failure of dynohubs prior to this but if you stay active on the Facebook or other related ultra endurance events this topic will turn up soon enough.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Salubrious said:


> if you stay active on the Facebook


I get direct 1 on 1 feedback from the people for whom I build wheels. There have been zero reports of SON dynohub failures.

Does that mean no one has experienced a failure? Nope, it doesn't, nor am I suggesting otherwise. It means that failures continue to be exceedingly rare.

You're suggesting that people riding a crappy gravel road with an overblown reputation are experiencing more failures than people riding other gravel roads, or actual trails. I'm telling you that ain't so.

If I took what I read on Toolbook as gospel I'd have a very different view of the world. You seem to subscribe to some version of that view.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

> You're suggesting that people riding a crappy gravel road with an overblown reputation are experiencing more failures than people riding other gravel roads, or actual trails. I'm telling you that ain't so.


Actually, I never said anything like that. BTW/FWIW the Son has the reputation of being one of the more reliable hubs used on the Divide. But if you're saying that the wheels you make are all getting the same sort of use and mileage as seen on the Divide, I'd doubting it. Some of it is precisely because they are indeed quite often crappy roads (but with spectacular scenery), but trail riders, at least around here, are careful to stay off trails when its raining or snowing. That doesn't happen on the Divide- particularly on the race- you just go no matter the conditions. Unless you're in a similar event where there is rain, its a good bet that your customers are waiting for a better day or forecast.

I don't take everything I read on Facebook as gospel, FWIW. In this case Google is your friend- "dyno hub failure tour divide"... If you get into reading any of the blogs on the event, you'll read about hub failures even more. BTW, 'hub failure' in this case can also mean that the hub is simply not charging properly, even though its bearings are fine.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Is the steel Jones Plus LWB being phased out? The website says:



> Jones Steel Plus LWB Diamond frameset Steel Truss Fork *Limited Colors*


The only colors available are red and gray.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

happyriding said:


> Is the steel Jones Plus LWB being phased out? The website says:
> 
> The only colors available are red and gray.


No
Jeff only orders 25 bikes of each colour at a time.
Always Black and a 2nd colour opinion. 
So he is out of Black 
The Grey is an old colour and Red is the new colour.
Order the red.
I'm disappointed with my Jones because it's boring dangerous black.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Chain rub and Packing Tips*

Has anyone else had any issues with Chain Rub running an 2x11 setup? I've had this issue as long as I've had the bike and my Wife's Plus space frame is suffering from the same problem. I've emailed Jeff but still haven't received a response yet.

When I'm in the granny in the biggest gear it is either rubbing on the tire or damn close. This, as you might imagine is exceptionally troublesome while bikepacking in the middle of nowhere when it starts raining and I need to stop every 3 minutes because my chain is so caked with mud from the tire that It is destroying my drivetrain.

My bike is a Ti 25" Jones Plus. Setup is Shimano XT 11 speed derailleur, shifters, crankset and cassette (11-42) DT Swiss 350 rear Hub.

My Wife's setup is similar except with a Shimano XT rear hub.

So far I've tried moving the spacer washer on the axle with little to no success. I really don't want to run a smaller tire as 3.0 is kind of one of the main reasons I wanted the bike in the first place. Has anyone else had this issue and found a reasonable solution?

Also, was wondering if anyone had any creative tips for packing such a gargantuan bike for international airline travel. We've tried everything from creating frankenstien boxes from multiple bike boxes to mattress bags but still haven't found a reasonable solution that compares to simply turning the front wheel around and dropping the seat and turning the handlebars like a "normal' bike. The truss fork is a huge ass pain in this regard. Has anyone had success removing the fork and packing in a creative way? I tried once but nearly lost all the ball bearings from the headset. Any suggestions?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

I'm guessing 'go 1x11' is the wrong answer?

I had a 25" LWB Plus and now a 24" and run 1x with no issue


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I'm guessing 'go 1x11' is the wrong answer?
> 
> I had a 25" LWB Plus and now a 24" and run 1x with no issue


I wanted to do that originally but the XT crankset 96 BCD limits me to a minimum of 30T for the outside chainring which is incredibly too hard for the kind of fully loaded multi month mountain riding we are doing.


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## mbudd (Oct 14, 2008)

Boris_159
I feel your pain. I just put up with the rubbing, but wasn’t in the position you are in. For me the rubbing only happened while climbing steeply. Some suggested solutions that I have considered:
- switch to a 11-46 or larger cassette, with the intention being that you almost never need to use the largest cog and so your chain is s little further from your tire. 
- remove a small cog (eg, 13 tooth) and put it between the 42 tooth and the spokes, and then adjust the derailleur so that it won’t go onto that cog. 
- switch to square taper bottom bracket with a spindle that it slightly wider. Nothing wrong with square taper, and will probably even last longer. Those bottom brackets are cheap so you can experiment to find the best compromise of chainline.
I hope that helps.


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## mbudd (Oct 14, 2008)

Repaint repaint repaint!!!


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

mbudd said:


> Boris_159
> I feel your pain. I just put up with the rubbing, but wasn't in the position you are in. For me the rubbing only happened while climbing steeply. Some suggested solutions that I have considered:
> - switch to a 11-46 or larger cassette, with the intention being that you almost never need to use the largest cog and so your chain is s little further from your tire.
> - remove a small cog (eg, 13 tooth) and put it between the 42 tooth and the spokes, and then adjust the derailleur so that it won't go onto that cog.
> ...


The cog swap idea is intriguing. I might actually give that a shot. I used the 11t cog once just to see what it felt like (Didn't care for it... Why pedal down a hill?) Now to find a chain whip somewhere on this tiny island I call home 

The more I fiddle with this problem, the closer I'm getting to buying a Rohloff and calling it a day.


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## GregMun (Feb 18, 2019)

boris_159 said:


> The cog swap idea is intriguing. I might actually give that a shot. I used the 11t cog once just to see what it felt like (Didn't care for it... Why pedal down a hill?) Now to find a chain whip somewhere on this tiny island I call home
> 
> The more I fiddle with this problem, the closer I'm getting to buying a Rohloff and calling it a day.


I have been more or less lurking on this thread because I am considering a Jones. I also want to run 2x and this news is a little disconcerting. There is one clarification that I did not see in your description of your drivetrain. The XT crankset you are using is boost, right?


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## mbudd (Oct 14, 2008)

That’s a good point. I should add that my Jones Plus has the original 135mm rear spacing and that the newer frames are less likely to have this problem. I’ve used a square taper crankset for a few years. Currently I’m using a Surly OD crank and it’s wotking pretty well.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

boris_159 said:


> Has anyone else had any issues with Chain Rub running an 2x11 setup? I've had this issue as long as I've had the bike and my Wife's Plus space frame is suffering from the same problem. I've emailed Jeff but still haven't received a response yet.
> 
> When I'm in the granny in the biggest gear it is either rubbing on the tire or damn close. This, as you might imagine is exceptionally troublesome while bikepacking in the middle of nowhere when it starts raining and I need to stop every 3 minutes because my chain is so caked with mud from the tire that It is destroying my drivetrain.
> 
> ...


Are you running a boost crankset or non boost crankset?
Looks to me your running the wrong cranks. 
I'm running 2 x11 and all is good. 
If you do have a boost crankset then is your elliptical bottom bracket centred?
Now I have had 3 Jones and one thing is not to email Jeff and the team. 
It's best to phone up and Jeff is very helpful always. 
Yes phoning is painful when not in the USA, I know all too well because I live in New Zealand. 
All the best.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

boris_159 said:


> The cog swap idea is intriguing. I might actually give that a shot. I used the 11t cog once just to see what it felt like (Didn't care for it... Why pedal down a hill?) Now to find a chain whip somewhere on this tiny island I call home
> 
> The more I fiddle with this problem, the closer I'm getting to buying a Rohloff and calling it a day.


Have you considered a spiderless crank for 1x? I think that would let you run a 26t chainring, this may be a possibility if you don't need high speed gearing.

Personally I would prefer a 1x12 drivetrain to a Rohloff given that the Rohloff would likely work best if the frame was modified with extra mounting and cable bosses.

My own first gen Plus, like mbudds, used to have an offset double and did have some chain rubbing in the lowest gear and tended to collect mud though it kept going surprisingly well even then. Because I'm not too concerned with having a really wide gear range for bikepacking and because I use a dropper post on this bike I converted it to 1x11 XT last year which works well. It has about 5 mm of clearance to a 3.0 Ranger. Newer frames have at least as much - I helped set up a 25" Plus Ti spaceframe with Eagle 12 speed and don't recall it having clearance tight as that shown in your photo. If you want I can check with the owner and find out exactly what the clearance is like. I also set up another steel Plus (newer with Boost spacing) as 1x11 with XT (11-46) and that also seemed to have acceptable clearance (from memory about 5 mm from a 3.25 bulldozer).


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the help guys.

I checked the cranks just to be sure and yes they are both Shimano XT Boost. (Jeff installed the ones on my Wife's bike from the factory).

Both bikes are 148 boost rear.

I've tinkered with the EBB and it is centered if not cheating a little bit towards the drive side on my Wife's which Jeff set up.

I'm looking at 2 options I think. 

Option A: Buy 2 new crank sets and run the smallest (26t?) Cog in the front on a direct drive setup. Speed is not an issue for us. Our style is to tour slow and drink beer at the first bar we pass in every town so pedaling downhill is a rare occasion unless we're being chased by a bear or a crazy raccoon.

B: Say, "screw it" Drop the $3 grand and get 2 Rohloffs and never have to worry about drive trains again.

After 4 straight days in the middle of the hills of Hungary with no bike shop for hundreds of miles, stopping every 10 minutes to clean half a pound of mud out of my chain, I think I'm inclined to just go for the Rohloff if I can find someone to make this happen. it looks like a touring specific shop in Bangkok is a Rohloff dealer. 

Obviously this is literally 10x the price, but We've got some touring in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia on the horizon and I really don't want to be dealing with drive train issues in those kind of places. I think maybe the Rohloff would alleviate the problem of parts availability in third world countries also since a single speed chain should be available anywhere. 

Still not sure if the Rohloff is a possibility, although it looks like some folks have had some success on this forum. Anyone had one on a Ti Frame?

Once again, thanks for the help. This community is awesome!


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## GregMun (Feb 18, 2019)

Morphosity suggested that the frame might need extra mounting and cable bosses. That doesn't seem to be the case with the diamond steel Jones that Cycle Monkey built up for a customer.

https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/jones-plus-lwb-29-trail-bike-rohloff-speedhub-50014

They basically piggybacked the cabling onto the brake run and the torque arm of the Rohloff mounts on the brake mounts. It doesn't look like that big of a deal to do the installation. As to whether it can/should be done with the titanium frame, I dunno. Jeff or Cycle Monkey would probably know.

That setup is beyond my means if I decide to get a Jones. I'm still wondering about why there is a clearance issue with 3" tires and the correct boost setup.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

boris_159 said:


> The more I fiddle with this problem, the closer I'm getting to buying a Rohloff and calling it a day.





morphosity said:


> Personally I would prefer a 1x12 drivetrain to a Rohloff given that the Rohloff would likely work best if the frame was modified with extra mounting and cable bosses.


I set up my Jones Plus with a Rohloff. Routing the cables is no worries. Last year on the Tour Divide I encountered peanut butter mud, enough to completely jam the wheel and stop it. The drivetrain was making some frightening sounds. But it was undamaged and I'm still running that chain, which measures out good.

Reliability (and gear range) is the main reason to have a Rohloff. Heaven help you if you ever break one- you may well have to replace the wheel- but as long as you keep it lubricated its quite durable! Bring extra oil and a bit of Teflon tape for the oil plug- else oil can make its way post it.


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## GregMun (Feb 18, 2019)

Salubrious said:


> I set up my Jones Plus with a Rohloff. Routing the cables is no worries. Last year on the Tour Divide I encountered peanut butter mud, enough to completely jam the wheel and stop it. The drivetrain was making some frightening sounds. But it was undamaged and I'm still running that chain, which measures out good.
> 
> Reliability (and gear range) is the main reason to have a Rohloff. Heaven help you if you ever break one- you may well have to replace the wheel- but as long as you keep it lubricated its quite durable! Bring extra oil and a bit of Teflon tape for the oil plug- else oil can make its way post it.


So is your Jones a thru axle boost? It sounds like the setup for thru axle bikes with Rohloff hubs is not just get it and plug it in:

https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/tech-talk-rohloffs-through-axle-a12-hubs

I did not realize before that there are no "true" thru axle Rohloff hubs. They are all adaptations of the 135mm quick release hub.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

boris_159,

Thanks for posting about your 2x Boost problems. I'm in the same position and feel the same way as:



GregMun said:


> I have been more or less lurking on this thread because I am considering a Jones. I also want to run 2x and this news is a little disconcerting. There is one clarification that I did not see in your description of your drivetrain. The XT crankset you are using is boost, right?


Why 2x? To climb big mountains!

What are the chainring sizes on the 2x Boost crank you are running? On my mountain bike's XT 24-34 Boost crank, there are two spacers that go on the drive side between the crank and the BB. If you post the exact model of your crank, e.g XT 8000 24-34 crank, I can take a look at the Shimano tech docs for you.

Also, what tire is that? 3.0 Maxxis Chronicle?

WTF? No one else posted about their chainrub issues?! I think the idea should be to help other cyclists be informed buyers--no surprises when they get the bike.



> but We've got some touring in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia on the horizon


Awesome trip!



> B: Say, "screw it" Drop the $3 grand and get 2 Rohloffs and never have to worry about drive trains again.


Too `eavy!


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

GregMun said:


> Morphosity suggested that the frame might need extra mounting and cable bosses. That doesn't seem to be the case with the diamond steel Jones that Cycle Monkey built up for a customer.
> 
> https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/jones-plus-lwb-29-trail-bike-rohloff-speedhub-50014
> 
> ...


I stand corrected, though this is the one I was referring to which they had added cable and mounting bosses to:

The Monkey Lab: Jones Plus Bikepacking Bike with Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 and Gates Carbon Drive

Looks like they split the chainstay on both those bikes too, obviously not needed if you use a chain.


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## GregMun (Feb 18, 2019)

morphosity said:


> I stand corrected, though this is the one I was referring to which they had added cable and mounting bosses to:
> 
> The Monkey Lab: Jones Plus Bikepacking Bike with Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 and Gates Carbon Drive
> 
> Looks like they split the chainstay on both those bikes too, obviously not needed if you use a chain.


Yep. You are also correct. It looks like Monkey Lab is getting a little more efficient in their Jones builds with experience. That or the first one was more particular in what they wanted.


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## boris_159 (Apr 28, 2008)

happyriding said:


> boris_159,
> 
> Thanks for posting about your 2x Boost problems. I'm in the same position and feel the same way as:
> 
> Why 2x? To climb big mountains!


Yup, sometimes all day for weeks at a time. Mashing is not something I'm too keen on, I like my knees and I've already got arthritis in my early 30's so I'll spin all damn day 



> What are the chainring sizes on the 2x Boost crank you are running? On my mountain bike's XT 24-34 Boost crank, there are two spacers that go on the drive side between the crank and the BB. If you post the exact model of your crank, e.g XT 8000 24-34 crank, I can take a look at the Shimano tech docs for you.
> 
> Also, what tire is that? 3.0 Maxxis Chronicle?


I am running an XT M8000 34-24 Boost Crankset with the spacers both on the drive side. No washers on the chainrings. I've even got the EBB slightly cheated to the drive side (Flush with the frame on the right) but the issue remains. I'm running a DT Swiss 350 rear hub and my Wife is running an XT Hub. Her clearance is ever so slightly wider, but still unacceptable if riding in the mud. Tires are Maxxis Chronicles.

I'd like to continue to help with this discussion in case anyone else runs into this problem and will check back and answer anymore questions and let you know if I figure out a solution.

However, personally I'm waiting to hear back about the Rohloffs and if that doesn't work out for some reason, I'm going direct drive 1x11 with a 24 or 26 tooth chainring up front. I don't need to go fast and pedaling down a hill is dumb 

Also considering re-speccing to 1x10 for parts availability in the developing world if the Rohloff doesn't work out.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

boris_159 said:


> I'm going direct drive 1x11 with a 24 or 26 tooth chainring up front.


I've run 24 x 10-44 and 11-46 11 speed, and 26t x 10-50 12 speed. Plenty of range to spin up steeps and still cover gobs of ground on the flats.


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## gonzo1034 (Nov 28, 2005)

The cheapest and easiest fix, re-dish rear wheel a few mm off center towards non-driver side and run a 12 speed chain. That should create more clearance. Also Surly makes boost cranks with greater chainline clearance.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

GregMun said:


> So is your Jones a thru axle boost? It sounds like the setup for thru axle bikes with Rohloff hubs is not just get it and plug it in:
> 
> https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/tech-talk-rohloffs-through-axle-a12-hubs
> 
> I did not realize before that there are no "true" thru axle Rohloff hubs. They are all adaptations of the 135mm quick release hub.


I got my frame on sale in early 2017. Its 135mm dropouts in the rear- no through axle. I had seen a Rohloff on a fatbike a couple of years ago- glad to hear it was an adaptation- since if anything else it would have been heavier. This is one reason I didn't get a new frame (I was considering TI) since I would have to have gotten a new hub as well and I simply wasn't down. So finding out that there is an adapter system is a good thing- I can consider a TI frame again... maybe next year...



happyriding said:


> Why 2x? To climb big mountains!
> 
> Also, what tire is that? 3.0 Maxxis Chronicle?
> 
> WTF? No one else posted about their chainrub issues?! I think the idea should be to help other cyclists be informed buyers--no surprises when they get the bike.


I ran the Chronicles up till early this spring. No chain rub. With regards to gear range, I concur. On the first day bikepacking you might be fine with less range, but after a few days and fatigue setting in you are looking for lower gears.



> Too `eavy!


When you add up the difference of derailleurs, extra chain and the like, the difference isn't profound. But you get for real instantaneous shifting, which is really nice in singletrack; if you get what that is about it simply allows you to be faster. Rocks can't snap the hanger, indexing is handled by the hub not the shifter, so mud can't mess with you in that regard; lots of advantages. They do have more drag, and need about 500 miles to really break in. But once you ride with one for a while it can be hard to go back to derailleurs.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Salubrious said:


> But once you ride with one for a while it can be hard to go back to derailleurs.


I had two Rohloffs for about a decade. I sold them and went back to derailleurs and SS setups. No issues making the transition away from IGHs.

For the riding you are talking about Rohloffs make sense. High mileage use in all weather is key to getting your money's worth from these hubs and the pros out weigh the cons in that application.

A lot of people buying Rohloffs do so overlooking/underestimating the downsides and without the real need for what that IGH has to offer so they end up disappointed.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

^^ +1


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

I’ve been playing mind ping pong over the last several days on whether to order a Ti or Fe Plus LWB frame. Both diamond and truss fork. For those that have experience on both, care to comment on whether you think it’s worth the $3k upcharge for the Ti? I know, subjective. But what do you think? To Looks so beautiful. But I won’t cry as much if I dent a steel frame.


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## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

stremf said:


> I've been playing mind ping pong over the last several days on whether to order a Ti or Fe Plus LWB frame. Both diamond and truss fork. For those that have experience on both, care to comment on whether you think it's worth the $3k upcharge for the Ti? I know, subjective. But what do you think? To Looks so beautiful. But I won't cry as much if I dent a steel frame.


I own a Fe Plus LWB, and have had a few rides on a Ti Plus Spaceframe (so not exactly your comparison but close) with a really nice build on it - Jeff's carbon wheels, nice hubs, Eagle, all the good stuff. That is probably the nicest bike I've ever ridden, but it's certainly not twice as good a bike that my steel Plus is. The main differences beyond looks were that I thought the Ti bike had a softer, smoother ride (not sure if that was from the frame or the wheels though I'd say the frame) and was noticeably lighter.

IMO the steel bike is 95%-98% of the bike for considerably less cash. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Hello all! I’m curious if anyone else has a jones complete and finds it extremely comfortable, but my legs get worked riding it way more than the fat bike single speed I was riding before? Are the chronicles that slow rolling, the wheels that heavy, or the bike doesn’t fit me. It is too small in my opinion even though medium was the recommendation. I’m 6’1” with 35” inseam. 

My wife loves it so I’m happy for that. I just can’t believe that a fat bike with Edna’s feels like way less work to ride for me. I’m definitely a fan of 29+ over 27.5+, based on my experience. 27.5+ is extremely slow. Or is it just me?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Maybe just you. Every fatbike I've ridden feels like it's dragging an anchor behind it compared to my Jones.

Actually, every fatbike I've ridden was considerably improved by a 29+ conversion, where I was able to try both wheels.

I can't comment on the Chronicles as I haven't used those.



RFrahm said:


> Hello all! I'm curious if anyone else has a jones complete and finds it extremely comfortable, but my legs get worked riding it way more than the fat bike single speed I was riding before? Are the chronicles that slow rolling, the wheels that heavy, or the bike doesn't fit me. It is too small in my opinion even though medium was the recommendation. I'm 6'1" with 35" inseam.
> 
> My wife loves it so I'm happy for that. I just can't believe that a fat bike with Edna's feels like way less work to ride for me. I'm definitely a fan of 29+ over 27.5+, based on my experience. 27.5+ is extremely slow. Or is it just me?


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

I have a Chronicle 29x3 @ 122 psi on the rear of my Plus trussed LWB (Crux up front @10.5 psi)
and the combo just flies


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

But you have the 29+ Jones right? That is a completely different bike. The bike is just too small for me and I wasn’t sold enough (at all really) on 27.5+ to order the large. I am planning to have a 29+ set built for my Wednesday. I was just surprised that I felt like I rode 50 miles even if I only did 10. I rode the Jones for almost 1000 miles before handing it over to my wife.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

I loved 29+ on my ECR but the front wheel flexed way to much for my liking. Jones definitely has it right using 150 spacing for the front with the big wheels. Wish I could ride the LWB for a while to test. Can’t justify the $ without a proper trial.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Yes, mine's the 150 spaced 'fat bike hub' and I am running Scraper i45's
all that a big bolt through axle makes for a super strong wheel and whole front feel

No flex going on there

Supremely comfortable ride (Loop bars)


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Very nice. Glad you enjoy your real Jones bike. I enjoy riding the Jones I have. I bought the medium on the recommendation knowing it would likely be too small. I knew my wife would like it so that part of the plan worked out. Just wish there was a 29+ option for the complete (cheap version) for those of us with a Surly budget.


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

RFrahm said:


> Hello all! I'm curious if anyone else has a jones complete and finds it extremely comfortable, but my legs get worked riding it way more than the fat bike single speed I was riding before? Are the chronicles that slow rolling, the wheels that heavy, or the bike doesn't fit me. It is too small in my opinion even though medium was the recommendation. I'm 6'1" with 35" inseam.


I'm on the medium; I'm 6'. I found the Chronicles to be really slow, except in single track. I went with Jeff's recommendations on air pressure, and simply found them to be too low. But I think Jeff weighs less than me and is a considerably more aggressive and powerful rider. Plus he's got a lot more downhill sort of riding available in his neck of the woods. I don't- I'm in Minnesota. By adding air pressure it helped, but what really made the difference was going to a different set of tires. If I lived where there was a lot of single-track mountainous descents and that was going to be my deal for the day, I'd have kept the Chronicles, but I do a lot of long distance bikepacking. So I installed a set of Vee Rubber Speedsters. I might have gone a bit to far in the other direction, but they are a whole lot easier to ride. I'm just hoping they hold up to sharp rocks. I've not dialed in the air pressures yet but they appear to want more pressure (they are 2.8" instead of 3") but only by a couple of pounds.

If anyone is looking for a set of gently used Chronicles, I have a pair for pennies on the dollar.

The Chronicles had a bit of self-steer; the Speedsters are almost the opposite- if you turn they want to turn more. Both take a bit of getting used to.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Check out the Teravail 2.8 Coronado tires. Good flotation/volume, but less rolling resistance than the Chronicles.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Salubrious said:


> I'm on the medium; I'm 6'. I found the Chronicles to be really slow, except in single track. I went with Jeff's recommendations on air pressure, and simply found them to be too low. But I think Jeff weighs less than me and is a considerably more aggressive and powerful rider. Plus he's got a lot more downhill sort of riding available in his neck of the woods. I don't- I'm in Minnesota. By adding air pressure it helped, but what really made the difference was going to a different set of tires. If I lived where there was a lot of single-track mountainous descents and that was going to be my deal for the day, I'd have kept the Chronicles, but I do a lot of long distance bikepacking. So I installed a set of Vee Rubber Speedsters. I might have gone a bit to far in the other direction, but they are a whole lot easier to ride. I'm just hoping they hold up to sharp rocks. I've not dialed in the air pressures yet but they appear to want more pressure (they are 2.8" instead of 3") but only by a couple of pounds.
> 
> If anyone is looking for a set of gently used Chronicles, I have a pair for pennies on the dollar.
> 
> The Chronicles had a bit of self-steer; the Speedsters are almost the opposite- if you turn they want to turn more. Both take a bit of getting used to.


I've always thought Knards rolled pretty well. I've used it on forest road rides. Then again, if I were using the bike for strictly touring on (packed)dirt, I'd probably opt for something like Surly ET's in 29x2.5 size.


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I have a Chronicle 29x3 @ 122 psi on the rear of my Plus trussed LWB (Crux up front @10.5 psi)
> and the combo just flies


Do you have the Boost rear spacing? If so, would you post a picture of chain clearance at the tire? Do you have the same problem with clearance as boris_159 (a few posts above) ?


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

happyriding said:


> Do you have the Boost rear spacing? If so, would you post a picture of chain clearance at the tire? Do you have the same problem with clearance as boris_159 (a few posts above) ?


Sorry I missed this
Yes, I do have boost rear spacing and althought the chain is close to my 3" wide Chronicle, I have never had a problem, even in thick claggy UK winter mud


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Sorry I missed this
> Yes, I do have boost rear spacing and althought the chain is close to my 3" wide Chronicle, I have never had a problem, even in thick claggy UK winter mud


How close? What crankset are you using? That middle pic by boris_159:

https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/jones-plus-955601-7.html#post14086022

seems ridiculous for a bike that supposedly was designed around 29 x 3" tires.


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

happyriding said:


> How close? What crankset are you using? That middle pic by boris_159:
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/jones-plus-955601-7.html#post14086022
> 
> seems ridiculous for a bike that supposedly was designed around 29 x 3" tires.


Here ya go



http://imgur.com/gftoeHp


Crankset is Simano XT single ring 30T


----------



## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

I do not understand the problem you're having with your Jones!

Is the chain close to rear tyre in lowest gear?

Yes like on all plus bikes. 

How close 4mm which is normal for all the plus bike I have worked on in the last 7+ year's as bicycle service manager working on 90% mountain bike everyday.

If you're after more room fit a Surly 2x crankset like that come on the 1st Jones plus bikes and on Surly 1st 29+ bike made.

It seems like you're are making a up deal about this?

It's not a problem!

Yes I do have a Jones. 

My Jones is a 148 LWB Spaceframe with Shimano XT 2x 11 boost spacing.

I live in muddy New Zealand (it's winter) and it's not a problem. 

Now just go for a ride and enjoy you bike.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Rich007 (Oct 20, 2004)

Hey gang,

I need your advice, please. I have chance to get my hands on a 2017, I believe, Jones Plus bike, steel, 24" frame, which fits me really well... It's locally built, demo/floor model, so it has some test miles but nothing crazy... Diamond frame, truss fork, Jones bar, Thomson stem, Shimano SLX hydro brakes and a SLX rapid shifter, 1x10 gearing, Raceface crancks, Surly rims, Jones hubs (front is 135/142-f... I'm guessing they are thru axle, at least up front), Panaracer 29x3.00 tires, no name seat post, Ergon seat and a Jones bag for the Jones bar... That's as much as I paid attention to during my first test ride... Was offered when new for around $2,800... I can get it for $2K now... Do you think it's worth it???

I took it for a ride and it's just amazing, climbing standing up and in a saddle is just smooth and easy... Stiff truss fork is amazing, too, confident rapid braking... Really nice. I'm really starting to get what the whole "Jones vibe" is about I tried it on pavement and dirt and it fits my less aggressive, more touring riding style super well, with just enough kick and room for some fun hitting air...

If I get it now, I'll be using it mostly for commuting and leisurely rides just the way it is, maybe switch the seat for Selle Anatomica H2...

But I want to take it bikepacking next year, something nice and wild. I did Great Divide twice and want to maybe hit the "Wild West bikepacking route" (https://bikepacking.com/routes/wild-west-route/). So, I might want to install Rohloff later, some rear rack for lite bags in addition to a seat bag, not so sure about dynamo hub up front (the weird front hub spacing doesn't bother me as much) as I have been having great success just charging with Voltaic solar panels (https://www.voltaicsystems.com/)...

So, the question is, get this bike now, even though it's an older frame (no pinch bolt EBB and weird front and rear hub spacing), at great discount, enjoy it, and have it "upgraded" to Rohloff next year??? Or, wait and get a new bike, with the latest Jones LWB frame, built next year, complete with Rohloff, but for more than 2x - 2.5x the cost??? I'm not so sure the newer frames are that much better and worth the premium over this deal...

TIA

PS: Giving myself 2-3 weeks to see how strongly I feel about it then and if it's the same as today, I might just jump on it.


----------



## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

Rich007 said:


> So, the question is, get this bike now, even though it's an older frame (no pinch bolt EBB and weird front and rear hub spacing), at great discount, enjoy it, and have it "upgraded" to Rohloff next year??? Or, wait and get a new bike, with the latest Jones LWB frame, built next year, complete with Rohloff, but for more than 2x - 2.5x the cost??? I'm not so sure the newer frames are that much better and worth the premium over this deal...
> 
> TIA
> 
> PS: Giving myself 2-3 weeks to see how strongly I feel about it then and if it's the same as today, I might just jump on it.


You've seen the Complete bike that is now for sale right? IMO the hub spacing is a big enough deal to just get a complete instead of paying slightly more for a bike thats a few years old. If the shop were to knock the price down it would become less of an issue to me. But I don't think I'd get a used bike for a higher price than a brand new one with essentially the same spec.


----------



## Rich007 (Oct 20, 2004)

essjss said:


> You've seen the Complete bike that is now for sale right? IMO the hub spacing is a big enough deal to just get a complete instead of paying slightly more for a bike thats a few years old. If the shop were to knock the price down it would become less of an issue to me. But I don't think I'd get a used bike for a higher price than a brand new one with essentially the same spec.


Thanks essjss.

Sorry for my roundabout rambling making my point confusing...

Yes, I can get a complete Jones Plus bike right now for $2,000, with specs as mentioned in my previous post above... Yes, a bit older and demo bike but a complete bike, ready to ride out of the shop...

If I bought a new bike right now directly from Jones, effectively the same bike with more or less the same components, shipping, taxes, etc. would cost me almost $4,000, give and take!!! Yeah, I get a newer frame, with pinch bolt EBB and more common hub spacing, maybe better rims and tires, but is it worth it the difference???

What I'm really asking: Is the new frame that much better??? Did you guys have any issues sourcing components for the older Jones Plus frames when something needed to be replaced??? How much simpler it really is to convert the newer Jones LWB frame to a Rohloff rather than the older frame???

Here is a pic:









Hope I made it bit clearer, thanks


----------



## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

This is the complete bike I was referring to:

https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/

It retails for $1799 plus shipping. Is is NOT an identical frame to the ones you buy separate and doesn't have the EBB (which could affect a Rohloff setup). But it is a great deal to get into a Jones bike.


----------



## Rich007 (Oct 20, 2004)

essjss said:


> This is the complete bike I was referring to:
> 
> https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/
> 
> It retails for $1799 plus shipping. Is is NOT an identical frame to the ones you buy separate and doesn't have the EBB (which could affect a Rohloff setup). But it is a great deal to get into a Jones bike.


That's the reason I'm not looking at it Not being able to upgrade it to Rohloff is a NO-GO right there. Plus, LWB that I'm looking at has a frame that has been heat treated, meaning more durable for day in day out loaded riding, 29+" wheels (the SWB complete bike ships with 27.5" only) and let's not forget, it has the truss fork (SWB ships with unicrown fork only)!!!

Those are just a few things why I prefer the original LWB bikes over the new complete SWBs. Yes, the SWB is a great deal but just not for me... Not looking for a starter bike Thanks though.


----------



## morphosity (Mar 3, 2011)

Rich007 said:


> Thanks essjss.
> 
> Sorry for my roundabout rambling making my point confusing...
> 
> ...


I would get the older bike for $2k, that sounds like a pretty good deal. I seriously doubt you would notice the hub spacing when you're riding the bike. Unless you want a dynamo hub it's probably not a concern on that point. Not sure how difficult it would be to get another 142 mm front hub in the unlikely event you managed to destroy it though they are on Jeff's site now.

While the pinch bolt EBB is simpler, there's nothing wrong with a Bushnell IME (touch wood). That said I am paranoid when it comes to looking after the ones on my bikes - make sure they are put together correctly, keep them scrupulously clean and use a torque wrench in addition to being careful when installing them.


----------



## essjss (Aug 16, 2008)

Rich007 said:


> That's the reason I'm not looking at it Not being able to upgrade it to Rohloff is a NO-GO right there. Plus, LWB that I'm looking at has a frame that has been heat treated, meaning more durable for day in day out loaded riding, 29+" wheels (the SWB complete bike ships with 27.5" only) and let's not forget, it has the truss fork (SWB ships with unicrown fork only)!!!
> 
> Those are just a few things why I prefer the original LWB bikes over the new complete SWBs. Yes, the SWB is a great deal but just not for me... Not looking for a starter bike Thanks though.


I get it now (I was reading early in the morning- I should wait to post until after coffee). To echo morphosity, as long as you don't care about the hubs then it does sound like a good deal. As you know, the BB is critical for the Rohloff and you probably won't find a frame that is newer / cheaper.

I'm about to head out on a 5 day trip with my SWB Spaceframe and have no reservations about the bike, the loading, or the comfort over the coming 500km.

In other words, welcome to the cult.


----------



## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Being shorter, the SWB was really appealing when it was released. The reality about the complete is that one would want tubeless tires thus you could count on spending an additional $140 after purchase bringing ones price to just shy of $2k. After dilegently shoping the used market for a wheelset and crankset I was able to build a SWB with the Nicer frame(heat treated/butted tubing, EBB and a truss fork) for a little over $2k. If one considers the few likely upgrades they would make to the complete you could have the nicer bike for a tad more $ if not the same amount, just spent on the front end. Upgrades it seems most would consider are tubeless tires $140, 1x11 drive train $?, Seat of choice $75(brooks). Personally the 150 front hub makes sense. I gotta say I'm really digging this bike!


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

Rich007 said:


> Thanks essjss.
> 
> Sorry for my roundabout rambling making my point confusing...
> 
> ...


That's the bike I have and I paid nearly that just for the frame. I think this is a great deal. I'm running a Rohloff and don't see myself going back to derailleurs. So the spacing works out. The front hub doesn't concern me either- the way the MTB industry adopts and drops standards there will be something new next week anyway... 

If you plan to just ride, this bike is a good deal. If you plan to own the latest and greatest, don't buy a mountain bike...


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

When I was doing the math in my head, I spent about $2000 for my Jones LWB:

- $1100 new LWB frame + unicrown fork (I like the unicrown better, it just looks cleaner)
- $250 front wheel (Nextie carbon rim/DT swiss 150mm hub) from ebay
- $50 Trek boost rear wheel from ebay, slightly dinged
- $70 Altus hyrdo brakes, they work fine
- $300 SLX 11 speed drivetrain, new, when Chain Reaction Cycles still sold Shimano
- $60 Chinese Ti post
- $60 Soma bar

and a few other bits. So you can build your own for about the same price, but if you like everything on that bike, it's pretty reasonable.

Eric



Rich007 said:


> Thanks essjss.
> 
> Sorry for my roundabout rambling making my point confusing...
> 
> ...


----------



## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

...and a Jones bag for the Jones bar. Add that in!


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

happyriding said:


> ...and a Jones bag for the Jones bar. Add that in!


Or a Surly, which in the UK is half the price


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## rasidi (Apr 19, 2006)

.. and I exchanged my Surly ECR with a Jones LWB 135 .. one on one .. with the same setup .. happy ever since

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

https://blog.jonesbikes.com/something-new-from-jones-bikes/

Really intrigued to sell my Krampus for this...


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

loren90 said:


> https://blog.jonesbikes.com/something-new-from-jones-bikes/
> 
> Really intrigued to sell my Krampus for this...


Hmm...I've got to say if this was available when I bought my SWB Complete I probably would have got it instead since I was coming off a Stache and really like 29+. That said, I love the way my SWB rides and handles so well I have no intention of selling it, and no budget to add to the stable. I am really glad Jeff decided to introduce the LWB as a complete model though. It will get more people on these amazing machines.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

I definitely would have gone that route over the SWB. Oh well. I went back to shorter chainstays and am very happy. I imagine the LWB is even less playful than the SWB...


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Jones LWB and car racks.*

So last year I was really close to pulling the trigger on a Jones. Got hung up on sizing a bit and ultimately ended up going with a Crust Evasion. I'm super stoked on the Evasion. My bike quiver is down to 2--Evasion and Surly Big Dummy. The BD is going. I'm decided on a Jones. The SWB is quite intriguing after reading the Bikepacking.com review. But now I see there is a complete LWB that's a nice price.

I'm curious about the LWB and car racks. Any issues? I just a cheap one that's strapped to the back of my car (Kia Sol). Would the LWB be too wide I need to invest in a real rack.

As for sizing... uggh. If I were to get a SWB, I'd definitely go with a L. Probably would if I got a LWB although I could likely fit a medicum and that's what Jeff recommended when I spoke with him last year. For reference, I'm 6' but with a tall/long PBH of 91cm and saddle height of 80cm. I think I'd rather ride a bigger bike and get the bars up without a stack of spacers.

Thanks in advance for any responses.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

dfltroll said:


> So last year I was really close to pulling the trigger on a Jones. Got hung up on sizing a bit and ultimately ended up going with a Crust Evasion. I'm super stoked on the Evasion. My bike quiver is down to 2--Evasion and Surly Big Dummy. The BD is going. I'm decided on a Jones. The SWB is quite intriguing after reading the Bikepacking.com review. But now I see there is a complete LWB that's a nice price.
> 
> I'm curious about the LWB and car racks. Any issues? I just a cheap one that's strapped to the back of my car (Kia Sol). Would the LWB be too wide I need to invest in a real rack.
> 
> ...


Not sure about the LWB and a rack, but you should definitely go for large if ou get the SWB. I have similar measurements and went medium on the recommendation and it's too small. Seatpost is out just over 12" spacers to the top and it feels like I'm going over the bars when standing to pedal. It's a tiny bike. Fortunately my wife loves it and it fits her at 5'8" perfectly. I too am tempted by the LWB complete now, but I will likely just get a 29+ wheelset for my Wednesday.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

No problem fitting my LWB on my trunk rack. It also fits on my Yakima roof trays, as well. Barely.

With the front wheel removed, I could fit it in the back of my Civic if I folded down the seats. That would also probably work for your Soul.



dfltroll said:


> So last year I was really close to pulling the trigger on a Jones. Got hung up on sizing a bit and ultimately ended up going with a Crust Evasion. I'm super stoked on the Evasion. My bike quiver is down to 2--Evasion and Surly Big Dummy. The BD is going. I'm decided on a Jones. The SWB is quite intriguing after reading the Bikepacking.com review. But now I see there is a complete LWB that's a nice price.
> 
> I'm curious about the LWB and car racks. Any issues? I just a cheap one that's strapped to the back of my car (Kia Sol). Would the LWB be too wide I need to invest in a real rack.
> 
> ...


----------



## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

seat_boy said:


> No problem fitting my LWB on my trunk rack. It also fits on my Yakima roof trays, as well. Barely.
> 
> With the front wheel removed, I could fit it in the back of my Civic if I folded down the seats. That would also probably work for your Soul.


I have put my Big Dummy in it with the rear and passenger seats down. That's great to know about the trunk rack. Makes me want to go with the LWB all the more.


----------



## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

One more question, seat_boy, maybe you could chime in--what's the ST and TT lengths of a large LWB. I'm thinking ST is 20" and TT is 25", right?


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

dfltroll said:


> For reference, I'm 6' but with a tall/long PBH of 91cm and saddle height of 80cm. I think I'd rather ride a bigger bike and get the bars up without a stack of spacers.
> .


Keep in mind that, if you get the complete, you're going to need a stack of spacers just to get the stem on a unicrown fork to match the height of the stem on the top of a truss fork.



RFrahm said:


> Not sure about the LWB and a rack, but you should definitely go for large if ou get the SWB. I have similar measurements and went medium on the recommendation and it's too small. Seatpost is out just over 12" spacers to the top and it feels like I'm going over the bars when standing to pedal.


If you haven't already, you should try shifting the saddle WAY back, and shorten the stem. Go further than you think you should, and give yourself a chance to really adjust to it. The jones doesn't work well with the currently-fassionable saddle-forward fit, so dropper posts - wih zero setback - are pretty hard to make work too.

Otherwise, I agree with the Large recommendation. I'm between 6'1" & 6'2" with an 87 cm pbh and ride an older 29 (swb) from before the large frames were available. I'm basically waiting until he offers a steel, LWB base, space frame because I need the standover clearance. You're lucky, @dfltroll, that you don't.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

iamkeith said:


> Keep in mind that, if you get the complete, you're going to need a stack of spacers just to get the stem on a unicrown fork to match the height of the stem on the top of a truss fork.
> 
> If you haven't already, you should try shifting the saddle WAY back, and shorten the stem. Go further than you think you should, and give yourself a chance to really adjust to it. The jones doesn't work well with the currently-fassionable saddle-forward fit, so dropper posts - wih zero setback - are pretty hard to make work too.
> 
> Otherwise, I agree with the Large recommendation. I'm between 6'1" & 6'2" with an 87 cm pbh and ride an older 29 (swb) from before the large frames were available. I'm basically waiting until he offers a steel, LWB base, space frame because I need the standover clearance. You're lucky, @dfltroll, that you don't.


Thank you, I even bought a saddle with longer rails to get further back. Jones wouldn't tell me the setback of the stock post but said he didn't recommend more. I rode the bike for about 1000 miles and really wanted to love it. Even with the post all the way back my knee pretty much hits my feed bag off the bar and stem. It's just an extremely short cockpit and I have unusually long femurs. Also the frame is tiny so a framebag isn't going to fit much. Whichever I was surprised by since I thought he said they had Moreno space than most, not being suspension corrected. Nice and stable bike though!


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

I think the main decision for me will be complete SWB or LWB. Both have their appeal.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

A couple of Jones Pluses rolling out of Brush Mountain Lodge on day 18 of the Tour Divide:

https://www.dotwatcher.cc/race/tour-divide-2019

Look at:


```
Tour Divide Day 18
```
and scroll down to the heading:


```
Back at Brush Mountain Lodge the racers 
are still coming through
```
For those not following the race, the climb over a high Colorado pass after leaving Brush Mountain Lodge was the scene of an epic snow storm last week that knocked the two leaders out of the race--and stranded a chase group at the Lodge for a couple of days due to weather, snow, and mud.

The leader of the race was averaging 200 miles/day, and after a quick stop at Brush Mountain Lodge to resupply, he set off again, and at 1am after breaking trail up the pass in deep snow, he arrived at the top of the pass, but he got lost in a blizzard when neither of his gps units would function. After spending 3 hours at the top of the pass in the blizzard, he had to retreat back down to Brush Mountain Lodge, and the next day he scratched from the race. He said the experience was too harrowing for a city boy.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

PSA: The Rapha frame pack (size large) is a near-perfect fit on my Jones 135 Plus frame (24" ETT). Not the cheapest bag on the market, but really well made and quite spacious for a half-size bag.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Does anyone know of a bolt-on thru-axle that's compatible with the 142mm truss fork? I have the stock Jones QR thru-axle, and I'd really like to find a bolt-on version.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Does anyone know of a bolt-on thru-axle that's compatible with the 142mm truss fork? I have the stock Jones QR thru-axle, and I'd really like to find a bolt-on version.


There are a couple of the Paragon Machine Works ones, that should work. I had gone down this route a few months ago after breaking my stock Jones skewer (since fixed it), and taken many measurements and found 2 of the options that would have worked. I still want to do this, I may revisit/remeasure it this week. My reason for starting it, is that the stock Jones F-Hub with the stock skewer always has a tiny bit of play in it. Everything is seated fine, it is an issue with my skewer not compressing enough. I switched to a Salsa 142 front hub from an older beargrease and the play is gone.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Redlands R&C said:


> I switched to a Salsa 142 front hub from an older beargrease and the play is gone.


Interesting. Wonder if I can find a part number for that thru-axle.


----------



## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Interesting. Wonder if I can find a part number for that thru-axle.


Took me a while with school starting and still settling in with the house.
So, the reason I started looking for different axles was the smaller bolt that holds the Jones skewer "lever" in place broke one day as I was heading out for a ride. I also, as previously mentioned, always had the slightest bit of play in the stock Jones hub, nothing to worry about, but drove the mechanic in me nuts. Also as mentioned, with the Salsa Beargrease hub, it wasn't an issue, but that was after the skewer breaking.
I had the wheel off today, and revisited the measurements and will update later with PMW part numbers that "should" work.

Stock Jones 142 Truss fork - 22mm thick dropouts, 142mm hub spacing for 164mm overall length. Depth of the stock threads is 9.5mm.
Stock Jones 142 Thru axle - 149mm "smooth" axle length, with 16.23mm of threaded portion, for a total length of 165.23.

Now, there is a "slight" cam effect with the lever, but it is very slight. There is also a spring loaded cap (for lack of a better word), but it also doesn't seem to push too hard so doesn't really help with pre-load of the hub assembly. Also, with it being 1.23mm longer than the hub+dropout dimension, it seems to me that it may bottom out somewhere; similar to when there isn't enough spacers above the steerer tube for headsets.










According to Paragon Machine Works website, these skewers should work, https://www.paragonmachineworks.com/replaceable-parts/axles-skewer/front.html?skewer_length=289

But! they are also very adamant about not guaranteeing fit on anything other than their products, so be sure to look at the schematics which they have available by checking under the "features" of each skewer and you can view the PDF diagram/dimensions for all the skewers.

EDIT::
I am leaning towards trying out PMW skewers #SK4027/4028 or #SK4032/4033.
The difference between the two numbers in each case is 7 millimeters: i.e. 4027 is overall 160mm length, while 4028 is 167mm length.
So, for example, SK4027 is defined as being for a 135x15mm front hub, but has nearly sufficient length for the Jones Truss fork. Given that my current skewer sticks out about 1.5mm, when fully tightened the 160mm length skewer would be recessed in the fork, but still engaging about 7mm of threads. The other option is to get one of the 167mm overall length skewers and take up ~3mm of the overall length with spacer/washers. I could always use 2 or 3 pedal washers on the non-drive side of the skewer, that should split the difference and still allow for ample engagment of threads without sticking out the other side like is currently happening.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

This is really good info--thanks for posting it.

Were you able to determine if the 160 mm or 167 mm skewer was the correct length?


----------



## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Just submitted an order for one of each length. Will post back later this week with my experiment and thoughts!


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Redlands R&C said:


> Just submitted an order for one of each length. Will post back later this week with my experiment and thoughts!


Cool. Looking forward to the results.


----------



## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Ok, so my video editor is making me pay for service now.... I've uploaded 4 videos to youtube documenting my experiment. Was hoping to keep it as one slightly less boring video, but them's tha brakes!

Here are links to my findings...

















I will keep both axles with me I think when I ride for a while, and maybe I'll swap them out at stops, just to see if anything happens.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Thanks again for doing this and posting the videos. Much appreciated.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Redlands R&C said:


> Ok, so my video editor is making me pay for service now.... I've uploaded 4 videos to youtube documenting my experiment. Was hoping to keep it as one slightly less boring video, but them's tha brakes!
> 
> Here are links to my findings...
> 
> ...


You could determine if the 142mm axle's threads are bottomed-out by measuring how much of the axle protrudes beyond the fork/dropout. Then install the axle with the wheel removed.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

The PMW skewers have 17mm of thread on them. The 142mm axle has 3mm of thread exposed, so that leaves 14mm of thread inside the Jones dropout.

From my initial measuring and guessings, I know the disc side dropout is 16mm thick, with 9mm of threading and 7mm of non threaded. So, the axle is not bottomed out, and is indeed fully engaged!
I did check this last night, but with a sick toddler the last 2 nights totally forgot to post up until I saw the reminder.


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

This year I made it to Brush Mountain Lodge before I ran out of time.

Yesterday that bike got stolen. Brown Jones Plus with Jones C Rims and Rohloff hub. I'm sick...


----------



## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Salubrious said:


> This year I made it to Brush Mountain Lodge before I ran out of time.
> 
> Yesterday that bike got stolen. Brown Jones Plus with Jones C Rims and Rohloff hub. I'm sick...


Damn what state is this in?


----------



## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

Minnesota. Its the only one in the state.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How does the Plus frameset perform with steep climbs?


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

It's an excellent technical climber, IME. The long wheelbase gives you a huge sweet spot to balance between weighting the front and rear wheels.

It's baffling to me when people claim short chainstay bikes climb better, because of... less chainstay flex? I'm not sure what the rationale is. But look at a hill climb motorcycle, it has a long rear center to put the power down and not flip out. Jones LWB does the same thing, just not quite so much power 



Funoutside said:


> How does the Plus frameset perform with steep climbs?


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

seat_boy said:


> ...It's baffling to me when people claim short chainstay bikes climb better, because of... less chainstay flex? I'm not sure what the rationale is. But look at a hill climb motorcycle, it has a long rear center to put the power down and not flip out. Jones LWB does the same thing, just not quite so much power


Rationale is, you can get more of your weight over the rear wheel. Especially when standing and climbing. For moderate climbs, doesn't matter. For loose and steep climbs, short stays with the wheel tucked up under you pays dividends.

Also, you can't compare a powered vehicle to a human powered bicycle. Dirt bikes and sleds have long rear ends so you don't end up on your back from all the power output.

Regarding the Jones LWB, I don't have personal experience with one. But with multiple bikes in the 450mm+ chainstay lengths, you have to keep your butt way back to keep the rear from sliding out (when standing and climbing). Can't imagine how 19" of chainstay length would climb...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

stremf said:


> Rationale is, you can get more of your weight over the rear wheel. Especially when standing and climbing. For moderate climbs, doesn't matter. For loose and steep climbs, short stays with the wheel tucked up under you pays dividends.
> 
> Also, you can't compare a powered vehicle to a human powered bicycle. Dirt bikes and sleds have long rear ends so you don't end up on your back from all the power output.
> 
> Regarding the Jones LWB, I don't have personal experience with one. But with multiple bikes in the 450mm+ chainstay lengths, you have to keep your butt way back to keep the rear from sliding out (when standing and climbing). Can't imagine how 19" of chainstay length would climb...


Well put.

The steeper and looser the climb, the less the Jones geometry makes sense.

For gravel roads -- pfft, anything works.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Do you know how the SWB compares for climbs?


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

SWB "Climbs like a Goat" is what my wife says everytime she rides it. Building her up one at the moment. Great bike!


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## richardjohnson (Sep 12, 2016)

Funoutside said:


> Do you know how the SWB compares for climbs?


I am not sure how close my steel diamond is to the SWB geometry but it'll climb most anything and generally limited by my HP. Only place it annoys me is wet leaves but show me bike that climbs steep trails on that.

However I am limited to a 29x2.4 so there you go.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Thank you, very informative to know.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Mike, you always pipe in to knock the Jone's LWB geo. How much time do you have on one? I've ridden Jones and conventional geo bikes, and the Jones is a better technical climber. The balance is so much better, it's not even close. On a steep hill with a conventional bike, I have to hover over a very narrow balance point between rear traction and the front wheel unweighting too much. On the Jones, this point feels three feet long.

Caveat: I'm 6'3", so the rear wheel is relatively more under me than for someone who is shorter.



mikesee said:


> Well put.
> 
> The steeper and looser the climb, the less the Jones geometry makes sense.
> 
> For gravel roads -- pfft, anything works.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

I spent a year on one of Jones' SWBs and my LWB works noticeably better on climbs that were difficult on the SWB.


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## Aquaholic (Jan 13, 2004)

The LWB works quite well for me [Even on the steep and loose stuff]. But, I wouldn't bludgeon anyone with my opinion on it. You really have to try it for yourself. Don't base your opinion entirely on #'s and geometries, alone..


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

seat_boy said:


> Mike, you always pipe in to knock the Jone's LWB geo. How much time do you have on one? I've ridden Jones and conventional geo bikes, and the Jones is a better technical climber. The balance is so much better, it's not even close. On a steep hill with a conventional bike, I have to hover over a very narrow balance point between rear traction and the front wheel unweighting too much. On the Jones, this point feels three feet long.
> 
> Caveat: I'm 6'3", so the rear wheel is relatively more under me than for someone who is shorter.


I've never owned one.

I've borrowed two belonging to good friends and riding partners. They use them for gravel rides and commuting -- they seem suited to that. The position is upright. Comfy.

To call them good technical climbers is, IMO, to fundamentally misunderstand what technical means in terms of climbing.

Can they go uphill? Sure. Are they adept when the climb is at the limits of steepness and traction, and then a ledge or rut or boulder is thrown at you? Good. God. No.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Aquaholic said:


> The LWB works quite well for me [On the steep and loose stuff]. But, I wouldn't bludgeon anyone with my opinion on it. You really have to try it for yourself. Don't base your opinion entirely on #'s and geometries, alone..


Where is this? Cause i'd be riding similar, but with more sand on the trails.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Aquaholic said:


> The LWB works quite well for me [On the steep and loose stuff]. But, I wouldn't bludgeon anyone with my opinion on it. You really have to try it for yourself. Don't base your opinion entirely on #'s and geometries, alone..


These trails look fun.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Aquaholic said:


> The LWB works quite well for me [On the steep and loose stuff]. But, I wouldn't bludgeon anyone with my opinion on it. You really have to try it for yourself. Don't base your opinion entirely on #'s and geometries, alone..


As matter of transparency, do you ride for Jones? Sponsored? Any ties? I've seen your pictures on quite a few Jones blog posts.


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## Aquaholic (Jan 13, 2004)

Funoutside said:


> Where is this? Cause i'd be riding similar, but with more sand on the trails.


San Diego and surrounding area.



stremf said:


> As matter of transparency, do you ride for Jones? Sponsored? Any ties? I've seen your pictures on quite a few Jones blog posts.


Jeff and I go way back. Early on,when he was doing custom frames, I was on #14 of his Spaceframes. We share similar philosophies and riding styles.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Had a feeling it was SoCal. Thank you.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Aquaholic said:


> The LWB works quite well for me [Even on the steep and loose stuff]. But, I wouldn't bludgeon anyone with my opinion on it. You really have to try it for yourself. Don't base your opinion entirely on #'s and geometries, alone..


First, I love the images of you riding the Jones and really putting it through some stuff! It is great.

Second, I agree with how you put the answer to the question. It really is up to the rider to try it and figure it out. I do enjoy my Jones LWB a whole bunch, I used it as my primary MTB/tow-bike for 18months and it was good. But for my current riding skills and the fact that 95% of the time I am towing on the trails, it isn't as good as my Pugsley. So, of course, I have a specific idea of what I want/need in a bike; but on top of that I also am fully aware of my limitations as a rider. I'm sure one of my former co-workers could ride my two bikes back to back and come to a different conclusion as I have.

That's the beauty of bikes. Everybody has different ideas, wants, needs, and what works for me, won't work for everyone, and vice versa.

The other beauty (that many fail to miss) is that the rider DOES need to learn how to handle the machine they are on and that will require different skillsets. You wouldn't drive a loaded semi-truck the same way you drive a Corvette or even a Honda Accord (although some try). It is about knowing your machine and handling it appropriately.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Ordered one of the 142 mm PMW thru-axles and it fits great.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

From this guy.....








To THIS GUY!!!:thumbsup:








Not a plus'er, however, that Hookworm measures 2.7"+ on the mulefut, so I bet a 2.6" on a 35mm rim would be bang-on perfect.
Pretty much just a frame swap, I moved everything over from my Plus to this Spaceframe. Will have to change the cog on the back, as currently I'm halfway between links, so dropping it one tooth (or adding, who knows) to get rid of the slack.

This is to at least get it ridable, but I will be changing it up just not sure how yet or what I want to accomplish with it.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How do you like the new frame so far? What made you change frames?


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Lust, haha. Just time for a change I suppose. I literally only got it today, soon real time on it yet. Definitely noticed the shorter wheelbase in the yard though.
Off topic/sidenote, on the surly and salsa trade group on Facebook, one of those 2016 Salsa deadwood that were looking for is up for sale.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

Hey ballers-

I think I am at the juncture of my life where I might actually pull the trigger on getting a Jones as a carrot for pushing through knee rehab. I am like 75% that Jones riders are maniac cultists and almost everyone who talks about riding one does so like they don't have a gag reflex.

My current whip that gets the most mileage is a Krampus. Is it worth getting a Jones? Which one should I get?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

umarth said:


> My current whip that gets the most mileage is a Krampus. Is it worth getting a Jones? Which one should I get?


Krampus is way, way, way more fun to ride than a Jones. If by "fun" you mean getting sporty on engaging trail.

If I already had a Krampus and wanted something "else" to help me push through knee rehab, I'd get a Stache. Funnest hardtail on the planet.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I've had a Krampus, a Stache, and a Jones. I still have the Jones and like it the best. It's just a super versatile, very balanced bike. The Krampus just felt kind of heavy and stiff, while the Stache didn't leave much impression on me at all.

One thing to think about, though, is how much you like suspension. A Jones frame locks you into riding rigid.



mikesee said:


> Krampus is way, way, way more fun to ride than a Jones. If by "fun" you mean getting sporty on engaging trail.
> 
> If I already had a Krampus and wanted something "else" to help me push through knee rehab, I'd get a Stache. Funnest hardtail on the planet.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I probably could have written mikesee's response for him. Stache is cool, but I am not into aluminum frames.

I do ride rigid 95% of the time, so the Jones doesn't really represent a compromise. Thanks for the responses!


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

umarth said:


> Hey ballers-
> 
> I think I am at the juncture of my life where I might actually pull the trigger on getting a Jones as a carrot for pushing through knee rehab. I am like 75% that Jones riders are maniac cultists and almost everyone who talks about riding one does so like they don't have a gag reflex.
> 
> My current whip that gets the most mileage is a Krampus. Is it worth getting a Jones? Which one should I get?


The Jones rules in singletrack. I can get through my local loop faster on the Jones than I can on full squish (its a better climber but you can still bomb the descents). Its a pretty versatile machine and the most comfortable bike I've ridden. I went 1600 miles on the Tour Divide with it and didn't have even numb toes.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

umarth said:


> I probably could have written mikesee's response for him. Stache is cool, but I am not into aluminum frames.
> 
> I do ride rigid 95% of the time, so the Jones doesn't really represent a compromise. Thanks for the responses!


Are you looking at SWB or LWB? SWB is nice. Handles very well, climbs good, very playful geo. Fat front wheel and I did most trails in Moab. 
I can't wrap my head around the LWB for my type of riding. For dirt touring, makes sense. But riding the things got to be like trying to race a school bus. I would like to try one eventually.






But right now, I'm riding a Pugsley with Krampug wheels. With 445mm chainstay length, not super fun down the twisty trails.

One reason I got rid of the Jones was the heft. Stiffness, I didn't mind. And heft, going rough DH type trails, was good as well, as it kept the bike more on course than a lighter bike. But anywhere else, I slowed me down too much. Nope, didn't have $600/Jones rim to thrown down either. 
I had a Krampus too. That was hefty as well. But not bad. If I had to choose, I'd rather get the Krampus back (since it's cheaper and don't use proprietary front hub/weird mix of headset) and build up a nice set of wheels.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm open to LWB and SWB. I'm in Oregon and there are a lot of wide open trail where I am not sure the LWB would be a problem. One of my favorite things about the Krampus is that once I'm heading downhill the wheels get going faster and faster, powering through uphills and the longer wheelbase keeps things really stable. This review is always in my head.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

umarth said:


> This review is always in my head.


That review was from 2016. You should reach out to the author and see how he's feeling now that the new bike stoke has worn off. If he still loves the bike several years later that gives you a lot more confidence in his review. If he sold it already and is crushing on something else you can adjust your take on his review accordingly.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

But Vik, with that logic, every bike magazine review ever would be basically worthless. Shocking! 



vikb said:


> That review was from 2016. You should reach out to the author and see how he's feeling now that the new bike stoke has worn off. If he still loves the bike several years later that gives you a lot more confidence in his review. If he sold it already and is crushing on something else you can adjust your take on his review accordingly.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> But Vik, with that logic, every bike magazine review ever would be basically worthless. Shocking!


Sorry I thought that was the author's person bike like Aj's G1. If it's not than I don't have any expectation he'd keep the bike.

That said if it's just a test bike that would definitely factor into my assessment of the review. Doesn't make a magazine review worthless, but I definitely pay attention to what bikes these reviewers actually buy and keep for themselves vs. what they ride temporarily just to write up.

Same goes on MTBR with user reviews. It's easy to spout unicorn farts about how great some bling is when you are only keeping it for a few weeks or months. Again that doesn't make them worthless, but it does factor into how much confidence I put into the opinion.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

It is a valid point- generally I don't like getting reviews from people with new anything because it usually is an unreliable source. I also don't see many Jones for sale, which can be explained somewhat by the number Jeff sells, but also some content owners.

But I am leaning towards just putting a few bucks on the Krampus.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

umarth said:


> It is a valid point- generally I don't like getting reviews from people with new anything because it usually is an unreliable source. I also don't see many Jones for sale, which can be explained somewhat by the number Jeff sells, but also some content owners.
> 
> But I am leaning towards just putting a few bucks on the Krampus.


Are you close to Medford? May be worth a trip to the HQ. Take your Krampus with you and do a back to back test. I know he's got several demos available.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

Not particularly close to Medford, but posting on this thread didn't totally sell me on the swap, so I'll have either drive down there sometime in the spring/summer or keep an eye out for a demo opportunity.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

umarth said:


> I'm open to LWB and SWB. I'm in Oregon and there are a lot of wide open trail where I am not sure the LWB would be a problem. One of my favorite things about the Krampus is that once I'm heading downhill the wheels get going faster and faster, powering through uphills and the longer wheelbase keeps things really stable. This review is always in my head.


A review is a piece of opinion formed by one's perception. Your perception may lead to your agreement or not since one individual sees it in a different light than another. My advice, since you are fairly close to Jonesville is to make a day trip of it and test ride a couple bikes. As was mentioned, bring your current bike along for the side by side testing that brings out more detail.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

BansheeRune said:


> A review is a piece of opinion formed by one's perception. Your perception may lead to your agreement or not since one individual sees it in a different light than another.


Is this Kyrie Irvings mtbr handle? Medford is over four hours away, so no day trip.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

umarth said:


> Is this Kyrie Irvings mtbr handle? Medford is over four hours away, so no day trip.


So it becomes an overniter...
Still worthy to check out a bike that's gonna dent the ole piggy bank.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I've been kind of burned out by mountain biking lately. Another year, same old trails. Since most of my mileage is running around locally, I decided to build the Jones up to match that purpose:










Big slicks, higher gearing, lower bottom bracket, narrower bars, and of course a basket and kickstand. The Soma clamp on kickstand turned out to be crap, but the basket is a wonderful way to carry stuff when running errands. It was fast, fun, and comfortable riding like this.

But in the end, I missed having my Jones as a mountain bike, and I generally prefer to ride it over my Trek Fuel. So back to knobbies:


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## LinnK (Oct 29, 2019)

Hi guys,
Here's my 2016' Jones Plus LWB 135mm in singlespeeed setup


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Anyone found a bar mitt or pogie that works well with Loop bars?


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Just saw these on youtube as the video came out today. Russ from pathless peddled uses it on his Jones. https://www.amazon.com/Bar-Mitts-Ro...7a657f13d6fc6ed1958991f054e5f9&language=en_US


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Why do people keep talking about Winter when it's Summer time.
I never understand why Christmas cards of snow when it's summertime come on its snows in the middle of winter in the middle of the year
Time to lay down out of the Sun.
Happy summer all

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Finally pulled the trigger.*

So I finally pulled the trigger on a Jones LWB frame. I had been thinking about this for a while and everything kept coming back to getting one. What pushed me over the edge was the purchase of a Rivendell Appaloosa frame this past summer. I impulsively bought it, had some regret and didnt do anything will it until earlier this month when I finally built it up. It's a great bike that reminded me how much I love an upright position and the long stays are really nice. It's even longer than a Jones. The downside is that the clearance combined with the low BB height make for lots of offroad pedal strikes. And then there's the canti brakes.

I think one reason I waited so long on the Jones was being between sizes. 6' tall with a 90.5 pubic bone height and a saddle height between 80 and 81 depending on shoes put me in-between sizes. I did speak to Jeff himself and he was adamant about a medium but... I know myself and know how I fit a bike and would rather be on a bike that's too big than too small.

It'll probably be at least 2 months until I've got this together. Just in time for thoughts about springtime riding. Being as I'm in OR (Portland), it's not like it's a great time for trail riding anyway.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*wheels & rims...*

Wondering if folks have any thoughts or experience running 29x2.6 tires? 3.0s always seemed like overkill. 2.8s seem limited. But there are a fair number of 2.6s which on a 35mm rim and the BB set to the highest position might be a nice for all but the most technical terrain.

As for rim size... I was thinking i35 but then again, do I just do i40s and 3.0 tires and set the bike up as intended...


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Wow, almost 5 years since I started this thread and the Plus is still my favorite bike!


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

SeaBass_ said:


> View attachment 1300819
> 
> 
> Wow, almost 5 years since I started this thread and the Plus is still my favorite bike!


Yes it's been a number of years, do you still have your Jones LWB?
I sold my 1st Jones LWB because it was too big for me and Loved my 2nd Jones diamond unicrown 29"er sold it by accident to fund my 3rd Jones LWB Spaceframe. 
I must love Jones bikes? But for the grade 4 plus Mountain Biking riding I do a Titanium SWB would suit me far better. 
Happy riding and all the best for the new year. 
It's time to go ride and enjoy Summer

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## ericjayowsley (Jan 26, 2015)

I'm ready to finally scratch my Jones itch. I started my biking passion on an old Raleigh 3-speed. I then acquired a fatbike and took up mountain biking. Many years later, having oscillated between rigid steel singlespeeds and carbon fiber full-suspension wonder-bikes, I've always been aware of the Jones as this unique platform that might meld the special qualities of those first two bikes -- all-day comfort and monster truck ability.

Just put my Ibis Ripley up for sale and am going all-in on the Jones LWB. I've always been keen to "find" my bike through the used market, preferably in frame only form and then outfit with components I've carefully acquired over the years. I've located two 25" Jones LWB framesets used. One is the newer 148/150 rear/front hub model with the original Bushnell EBB, the other is a 135/142 model from 2017. Both are in exceptional condition. The older model is actually a bit more expensive but comes with a decent quality wheelset that I would use as a second road/gravel pair, as I intend to build my primary wheelset with the Jones C-Rims and an Onyx rear hub.

The question for this forum is whether Jones owners see a real benefit in embracing the Boost rear end (or the 150mm front hub). There's a part of me that likes the notion of investing in the Boost frame for the simple fact that if I ever move on from the Jones, perhaps I could repurpose my wheels. That said, a 148/150 combo built around 50+mm rims and 3.0 tires are not going to actually transfer to any bike but a Jones. So if portability isn't a selling point, it comes down to performance, color, and the second wheelset. I like both colors. I would probably make use of the second wheelset, but this will be my singletrack mountain bike 90%+ of the time. So, please advise, 148 or 135? is there a real benefit in the Boost rear-end of the LWB?

Thanks,
Eric


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Hi Eric (from another Eric),

I first owned a Jones with the truss fork and the older 135/142 wheels. Now I have a newer 150/boost with the unicrown fork, both are 25" LWB. I don't notice any performance difference in going from one wheel to the other, but practically speaking, it's much easier to find wheels for the newer standards. I ended up getting my front and rear wheels individually from ebay for not much money. So I would recommend the newer frame, unless the wheels on the older one are really compelling for the price.

Eric


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## ericjayowsley (Jan 26, 2015)

Thanks for the info, Eric. Boost seems more future-proof and perhaps more readily available. 135 allows for interesting hub options like IGH, dedicated singlespeed or even coaster brake. I wouldn't say that any of those rear wheel possibilities are strong desires of mine, but part of what I love about platforms like the Jones is the ability to reconfigure in many ways. That's something modern full-suspension bikes just don't allow for. In a way, that ability to completely rework the drivetrain to keep things interesting is a form of future-proofing from getting bored. Haven't pulled the trigger, yet, but soon. Thanks, again.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

I have a Plus with 135 rear and 142 front spacing. It rides just fine, but I'd have more parts choices and better tire/chain clearance with Boost spacing. That said, the price on the 135/142 frameset was too good to pass up.


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## Moof123 (Jul 1, 2019)

Funoutside said:


> Just saw these on youtube as the video came out today. Russ from pathless peddled uses it on his Jones. https://www.amazon.com/Bar-Mitts-Ro...7a657f13d6fc6ed1958991f054e5f9&language=en_US
> 
> <snip>


Thanks for posting that! I'd kept my Kona Unit with a Jones Bar setup on the sideline for winter commuting due to no pogie solution. I tried to fit the flat bar pogies on, no go. But I already had those drop bar Bar Mitts on my commuter cross bike, so I can give this a go for zero cost. Thanks again!


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I’ve had my 142/135 Plus SS for going on 5 years and since it still checks all the boxes for me, I have never felt the need to go to the Boost frame. The only thing I would want to change would be to get a Ti truss fork but the 142’s seem to be non existent at this point.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

By the end of the week my Jones LWB should be rolling. I'm definitely glad I went with the large over the medium. It's an interesting bike. I ended up going with i35 rims as I was considering going with smaller tires--2.6 or 2.8--but ended up going with 3.0 Rangers. Drivetrain is SLX and brakes are XT hydraulics. The only decision left is whether to go with a set-back post or a straight post.


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

ericjayowsley said:


> So, please advise, 148 or 135? is there a real benefit in the Boost rear-end of the LWB?


My experience of plus tyres and a 142mm/135mm spacing, albeit not Jones, is that of the chain rubbing the tyre with my eagle setup. Eagle rear cassette is 1-2mm further inboard at the rear, but to have the extra 3mm would be a welcomed improvement / requirement for a new bike.


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## ericjayowsley (Jan 26, 2015)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> My experience of plus tyres and a 142mm/135mm spacing, albeit not Jones, is that of the chain rubbing the tyre with my eagle setup. Eagle rear cassette is 1-2mm further inboard at the rear, but to have the extra 3mm would be a welcomed improvement / requirement for a new bike.


Thanks, all, for the feedback. Boost seems like the way to go.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

I have a new-to-me Jones LWB diamond frame and truss fork on the way and need a wheelset to go with it. Finding a 150mm front/148mm rear combo is not that easy.

Does anyone have suggestions (or an extra wheel/wheelset)?


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

I may have a wheelset, let me check later tonight. I believe I have a set built up with Jeff's carbon rims, what brand of cassette are you looking for and are you looking for that level of wheelset? I may also have just a front wheel built up with a 50mm rim if memory serves from when I was running a fat front setup on my Jones.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

You won't find any normal wheelsets built this way, but you could look for a 29+ FAT bike front wheel that is pre-built and then try to "match" the rim onto a pre-built rear wheel that is boost spaced. That would be the easiest way and the closest to a "set" you would find prebuilt.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Redlands R&C said:


> You won't find any normal wheelsets built this way, but you could look for a 29+ FAT bike front wheel that is pre-built and then try to "match" the rim onto a pre-built rear wheel that is boost spaced. That would be the easiest way and the closest to a "set" you would find prebuilt.


Jeff must be selling piles of these bikes, because I build about one wheelset a week with 150 f/148r for them.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

mikesee said:


> Jeff must be selling piles of these bikes, because I build about one wheelset a week with 150 f/148r for them.


I think so, just this morning on the way to campus I saw a shiny new red one, and last week I think I saw a black one. I almost mentioned you as a good option, but I know you are busy with moving stuff 
Mikesee will build you a great wheelset too.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a spare wheelset, DT Swiss 350 6 Bolt Hubs 150/148 DT Swiss Comp Black Spokes, Duroc 40 Rims. Built to put Vee Speedsters on and use for pavement and gravel. I used them twice.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Stray Mutt said:


> I have a spare wheelset, DT Swiss 350 6 Bolt Hubs 150/148 DT Swiss Comp Black Spokes, Duroc 40 Rims. Built to put Vee Speedsters on and use for pavement and gravel. I used them twice.


Sent you a PM. Thanks!


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

jfkbike2 said:


> I may have a wheelset, let me check later tonight. I believe I have a set built up with Jeff's carbon rims, what brand of cassette are you looking for and are you looking for that level of wheelset? I may also have just a front wheel built up with a 50mm rim if memory serves from when I was running a fat front setup on my Jones.


Don't seem to have the fat front wheel I remember, getting old and must have sold it. But I am fairly certain I have a Jones built wheel set around his front hub and DT rear with XD driver and his carbon rims. If anyone is interested let me know as it is not where I am at the moment but can have my son take pics. I know it still has rotors, tires etc... on them. If not serious please don't make me put family through hoops to get details. Thanks


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## Burgerdoodle (Feb 29, 2020)

I recently built up a Jones LWB! The bike rides great. I feel really comfortable in the riding position, and the long wheel base has been fun for me to get use to. I have been riding the bike exclusively on technical singletrack, and it has performed really well compared to the past three rigid 29ers that I have ridden. 

Here are my thoughts on the Jones LWB after 5-6 rides:

-The bike corners well. It is very confidence inspiring. Some of this could be due to the larger tires (29x2.8), although I think the stability of the long wheelbase helps. I have always been a little slower around corners than others I ride with, so I have really appreciated this.

-I was initially concerned that it would be difficult to lift the front wheel up and over obstacles (rocks, logs etc). while it does take effort to lift the front end I have been able to successfully get the bike up and over everything that I could on my last bikes, and on the flipside when climbing really steep slopes it is easier to keep the front wheel on the trail without popping unwanted wheelies.

-I have the pinch bolt style EBB which has performed well. I set it up in the 12 o'clock position mostly to avoid pedal strikes.

-I don't know how much the truss fork increases stiffness compared to a single crown, but it does look cool!

Overall thrilled with the bike, and I'm looking forward to riding it as much as possible.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Well after not riding my Jones LWB Spaceframe for over 15 months (been riding and training on my Bikepacking bike)

I have rebuild her and been out riding in this lockdown, Please Note: this is Ok if staying close to home in New Zealand.

I'm enjoying the riding all over again and too think I had been trying to sell her off how lucky am I to still have her.

Was thinking to replace my Jones frameset with a SWB frameset, but now thinking maybe I just look at upgrading the forks to a set of Titanium Jones LWB ones now that are now available?

Yes the tyres are not 29+ anymore as was too slow riding, but planning to change from the 2.3"×29"er tyre's to the all new Specialized Fast Trak 2.6"×29"er tyre's once the lockdown is over.

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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Burgerdoodle said:


> I recently built up a Jones LWB! The bike rides great. I feel really comfortable in the riding position, and the long wheel base has been fun for me to get use to. I have been riding the bike exclusively on technical singletrack, and it has performed really well compared to the past three rigid 29ers that I have ridden.
> 
> Here are my thoughts on the Jones LWB after 5-6 rides:
> 
> ...


Fitting a 3.25" Crux up front was 'the sweet spot' for my LWB (3" Chronicle rear)
It means I can keep the Crux up front all year round. Made a fair difference after having a 3" front before

The set-up does everything well, just need to dial in the right PSi. +/- 1 psi
10.5 front 12 rear


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I don't know if this has been covered here before, but what's the consensus on the frames used on the Plus LWB completes? I recall reading in a review of the SWB complete that the frame was somewhat down-spec in comparison to the frame-only option. The LWB complete frame is listed as being butted 4130. The regular LWB frame is listed as butted, heat-treated 4130, with a tapered top tube. The complete bike frame doesn't appear to have an EBB, either. That doesn't bother me, as I have no intention of running single-speed or IGH, and not having that complication is a plus. Are there any reasons to spend the extra on the regular frame and build it myself, rather than buy the complete?

Edit - I found this quote from the Bikepacking.com review of the Plus SWB complete: "So, what’s different from other Jones bikes, you might ask? First off, the 4130 chromoly tubing is not heat-treated like that of other Jones frames, so in order to maintain the same strength, it’s inherently heavier."

Is that real, or just marketing babble? Are the complete frames really heavier? Are they less springy/supple?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I believe you're correct, the complete frame is not heat treated. So probably slightly thicker walls, a bit more weight, a bit stiffer/less responsive. And no EBB. And maybe fewer braze ons. I think the frame is made in Taiwan and the bike is assembled in China.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

seat_boy said:


> I believe you're correct, the complete frame is not heat treated. So probably slightly thicker walls, a bit more weight, a bit stiffer/less responsive. And no EBB. And maybe fewer braze ons. I think the frame is made in Taiwan and the bike is assembled in China.


I edited my post just as you were replying. Bikepacking.com says pretty much the same thing. Thanks!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> I believe you're correct, the complete frame is not heat treated. So probably slightly thicker walls, a bit more weight, a bit stiffer/less responsive. And no EBB. And maybe fewer braze ons. I think the frame is made in Taiwan and the bike is assembled in China.


The bike is the frame so I would never cheap out on that as you can't easily upgrade that later like you can with parts that wear out like tires or a drivetrain. On a rigid bike the quality of the frame is key to the ride quality so it's even more important.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

vikb said:


> The bike is the frame so I would never cheap out on that as you can't easily upgrade that later like you can with parts that wear out like tires or a drivetrain. On a rigid bike the quality of the frame is key to the ride quality so it's even more important.


Good advice, thanks!


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

I built up a frame/fork SWB for not much more than a complete. I used parts I had and slowly acquired the parts I wanted to use over time when prices were right. Personally it was the better option for me to save a bit and invest on the front end to get a better bike rather than trying to upgrade as i go and still have the inferior frame.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

wilson1417 said:


> I built up a frame/fork SWB for not much more than a complete. I used parts I had and slowly acquired the parts I wanted to use over time when prices were right. Personally it was the better option for me to save a bit and invest on the front end to get a better bike rather than trying to upgrade as i go and still have the inferior frame.


That's usually what I do to build a bike, but if I get a Jones LWB, I think I'm going straight for the good stuff and building it with XT/SLX 12 speed. I've had great results with RaceFace ARC rims, so I would use those again. I'm a BB7 retrogrouch, but I hear good things about TRP Spykes. Ergon grips and saddle to match my other bikes. I might have a seatpost I can use. I haven't added all this stuff up yet, but I'm guessing close to $3k for the whole bike.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Pretty basic question, but what type of chain (and # of links) are you all running on the LWB? I'm building one up with XT 11-speed parts (32T chainring and 11-46T cassette) and the standard Shimano XT 116 link chain is too short to allow shifting up to the 46T cog. 

Wondering if there's an off the shelf chain, or if I need to splice additional links in.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

LBIkid said:


> Pretty basic question, but what type of chain (and # of links) are you all running on the LWB? I'm building one up with XT 11-speed parts (32T chainring and 11-46T cassette) and the standard Shimano XT 116 link chain is too short to allow shifting up to the 46T cog.
> 
> Wondering if there's an off the shelf chain, or if I need to splice additional links in.


I run 120-link SRAM chains with an 11-46t cassette, SLX rear derailleur, and oval 28t absoluteBLACK ring.


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## brucer63 (Jan 13, 2009)

Just splice in additional links.

If it helps any, on my Diamond Ti Plus 148 TA (LWB), I'm running XT 11-speed, 26/36T chainrings and 11-42T cassette, XT Shadow+ GS derailleur, and a 118 link Shimano CN-HG701-11 chain. The chain comes as a 116 link, and I have a "donor chain" that I use to splice in the extra links.

-Bruce


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi Shimano made two lengths of XT 11 speed chain.
I just picked this up from my work and fitted to my Jones LWB Spaceframe, I had to cut it a number of links shorter. 
I run my bike 2×11 









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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Those 138L chains seem to be hard to come by! I gave up, took the bike to my LBS, and they spliced a piece of chain in for me. Glad they opened back up yesterday for service/repairs. Awesome guys who always remind me that I'm not half the mechanic I think I am.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I run my Plus LWB Spaceframe 1x12 Eagle with a 32T chainring and I’m pretty sure I took 2 links off a normal chain when setting it up. 


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

LBIkid said:


> Those 138L chains seem to be hard to come by! I gave up, took the bike to my LBS, and they spliced a piece of chain in for me. Glad they opened back up yesterday for service/repairs. Awesome guys who always remind me that I'm not half the mechanic I think I am.


Yes they are special order and I preorder a few to have a one to two in stock. 
Happy pedaling and enjoy 

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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Has anyone tested a 27.5 x 3.8 front setup on a Jones Plus yet? It seems like running a fat front on the Jones 29 was fairly common, but I can't find many (any?) examples of folks running a fat front on a Plus model, specifically the LWB.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

LBIkid said:


> Has anyone tested a 27.5 x 3.8 front setup on a Jones Plus yet? It seems like running a fat front on the Jones 29 was fairly common, but I can't find many (any?) examples of folks running a fat front on a Plus model, specifically the LWB.


When I had my Plus, I had contemplated that, so I emailed Jeff about his. His recommendation was that a 27.5x3.8/4.0 would be smaller in diameter than 29x3 (depending on the tire models chosen of course) and that it wouldn't be recommended. He did however say that 27.5x4.5" would be a closer match diameter wise, so if I was to go that route he suggested the bigger crop of 27.5fats.
Hope that helps. I never got around to trying it so I can't say from personal experience other than the email conversation.


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## tenberg (May 13, 2012)

Stray Mutt said:


> I run my Plus LWB Spaceframe 1x12 Eagle with a 32T chainring and I'm pretty sure I took 2 links off a normal chain when setting it up.


I also have a Large Plus LWB 1x12 Eagle with a 32T chainring and I only took of one link. I used a SRAM 12 speed chain.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Lunch ride on my Plus.


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## mauricer (Apr 15, 2011)

hi there,

i have a LWB Plus (posting pix later) and wanted to check whether it is possible to run a Rohloff hub on it without having to make any adjustments on the frame (structurally)? Maybe someone who is running a Rohloff can give some insights.

Thanks

Moritz


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

mauricer said:


> hi there,
> 
> i have a LWB Plus (posting pix later) and wanted to check whether it is possible to run a Rohloff hub on it without having to make any adjustments on the frame (structurally)? Maybe someone who is running a Rohloff can give some insights.
> 
> ...


Hi

If you look at the start of this post or look up the review of the Jones LWB on www.bikepacking.com and look at the comments at the bottom of the post you will see close up photos of my 1st Jones LWB and 1 other.

So if you have one of the 1st few batches of Jones made they had quick release rear hubs and fitting a Rohloff was very simple.

The new Jones LWB and SWB have a thru axle and the only difference is you need the phone your Rohloff agent in your country and they sent out a special measuring kit to work out which kit you need to fit a loft into a thru axle frame.

Once your have done this it's a simple fit and go riding.

Rohloff hub's are great and I have run them on a number of my mountain bikes, the 1st hub I had for 7 years and 15,000 kms plus of riding than sold it for more than a new one!

Happy riding

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## mauricer (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks Peter. I thought as the frames still use IS mounts on the chainstays the existing monkey bones wouldn't work - only with brakes mounted on the seat stays. But i will get more deeper into it. I know that Rohloff for Thru-Axles are available, but you need that space where the hubs can have lock in which the monkey bone provides.


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## mauricer (Apr 15, 2011)

Here is the bike BTW....super happy with it.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

That's a beauty, very nice


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

mauricer said:


> Thanks Peter. I thought as the frames still use IS mounts on the chainstays the existing monkey bones wouldn't work - only with brakes mounted on the seat stays. But i will get more deeper into it. I know that Rohloff for Thru-Axles are available, but you need that space where the hubs can have lock in which the monkey bone provides.


Hi again 
So here is the link about the Jones https://bikepacking.com/bikes/jones-plus-review/

Now here are a few photos of a Rohloff in the early Jones LWB (my old Jones is the blue one) the black Jones has the new Rohloff mounting I was waiting on when photographed 









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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

What do the folks here think of the drop bar Jones Russ from Path less pedaled has done to his bike.


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

Funoutside said:


> What do the folks here think of the drop bar Jones Russ from Path less pedaled has done to his bike.


We I think Jeff Jones designed the bike as a whole with a pair of Jones bars as part of the design. 
But I have loved and not liked my Jones over the years. 
My 1st Jones I tried a set of drop handlebars for a week and then moved onto a set of MTB handlebars for a few more weeks. 
After this I moved back to my Jones Loop handlebars and the bike was better but not right so I phoned Jeff (and I live in New Zealand) and changed my bike adjustments as per Jeff's talk. 
Then my Jones LWB rode so much better as one that I know ride my 3rd Jones LWB and it's a Spaceframe small for a better fit. Only a 24" and 25" were available on ordering my 1st Jones. 
If you're interested in a drop bar bike buy a Salsa Fargo. 
Happy riding

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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm not into it, but I'm not into drop bars in general. I've tried various drop bar bikes and placed them on numerous bikes and never really liked them. I also find it funny how folks with drop bars sit on the hoods 90% of the time. Like I said i've tried them and have ended up here on a Jones SWB, love it!


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*It's a keeper.*

So I finally got out for a proper mountain bike ride on my Jones LWB. It was great. Climbed quite well, rolled with authority through twisty track and rolled over roots and rocks holding it's line although, I imagine, isn't a replacement for a full-squish bike.

I put on a PNW Components dropper post and wow, that sure is a game changer. I can't stress enough how blown away I am by the difference it makes on technical terrain and switchbacks.

I hate wearing a hydration pack so I'm glad it can hold plenty of water on the bike.

As for sizing, I can see how a medium might be doable but still glad I went with a large. I've got 4cm of spacers below the stem and will likely drop it down a bit more but we'll see.

Looking forward to more riding.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Last week I was at the bike shop grabbing a real nice Specialized Sirrus to flip. As I was packing it up, they wheeled out a SWB Jones and asked if I knew anyone that wanted it. I figured Id grab it and flip it as well... It was too small for me or my son. It would fit my wife but she wouldnt appreciate it. I offered it up to a couple that asked me to build them bikes. I was hoping the wife would take it and then I only have to search out a frame and parts for one bike. They showed a pic to their mountain biking son in law who shot it down because it didnt have a dropper post, suspension fork or Boost spacing. HA! It DOES have Boost spacing, dope. 
Anyway, they turned it down. I sent a pic to another friend that already has a LWB Jones. He sucked it right up. I met him at the trail and we went for a ride, him on the Jones, me on my Krampus. I could not believe how that Jones handled turns. Amazing bike. My son wants one now. 

Back to the first people... Theyre gonna be sixty. Their son in law is probably thirty. It bugs me when people dont see both sides of mountain biking. Not everyone needs the latest carbon gadget. Fifteen years ago, I was into FS and all sorts of fancy crap but now I know better. Ill ride a rigid plus bike any day on any trail. 
That SWB Jones complete build may be a little basic but it sure does kick ass. 
Anyone know what kind of rims those are on there?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

NYrr496 said:


> Back to the first people... Theyre gonna be sixty. Their son in law is probably thirty. It bugs me when people dont see both sides of mountain biking. Not everyone needs the latest carbon gadget. Fifteen years ago, I was into FS and all sorts of fancy crap but now I know better. Ill ride a rigid plus bike any day on any trail.
> That SWB Jones complete build may be a little basic but it sure does kick ass.
> Anyone know what kind of rims those are on there?


My wife and I are close to 60. She rides a carbon full-sus rig (dropper post, Boost spacing) and I ride a Jones Plus (no dropper, 135 q/r spacing). Her bike works for her and mine works for me (although I would like to get her on a small spaceframe if the standover is right).


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> My wife and I are close to 60. She rides a carbon full-sus rig (dropper post, Boost spacing) and I ride a Jones Plus (no dropper, 135 q/r spacing). Her bike works for her and mine works for me (although I would like to get her on a small spaceframe if the standover is right).


Don't get me wrong, I know people sixty plus with some plenty trick bikes. These people are also beginners. The trails they plan on riding are pretty tame. I know them pretty well. They aren't looking for fancy. Rigid plus will suit their needs perfectly.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Hello! I was curious what size your bike is? One on eBay I’m looking at that looks identical on head tube size. He says it’s a large with 29” standover. So it seems like it’s not a large.. Thanks!


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Found my answer looking at more posts.


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

Reading all your comments makes me wish it was easier to get a Jones in UK! I have been looking for one for a while but nothing happened and I am not ready to pay import duty! I may end up buying a Bombtrack Beyond+ ADV


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## NZPeterG (Mar 31, 2008)

teddyuk said:


> Reading all your comments makes me wish it was easier to get a Jones in UK! I have been looking for one for a while but nothing happened and I am not ready to pay import duty! I may end up buying a Bombtrack Beyond+ ADV


Hi everything import into almost any country has import duty, just go and order one and enjoy. 
I have imported three Jones frameset into New Zealand and it's very straight forward. 
It's all part of life the Bombtrack has import duty build into the price. 
Happy pedaling and enjoy

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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Interesting about the Bombtrack as their frame price was reasonable competitive(fork is another story).


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

teddyuk said:


> Reading all your comments makes me wish it was easier to get a Jones in UK! I have been looking for one for a while but nothing happened and I am not ready to pay import duty! I may end up buying a Bombtrack Beyond+ ADV


Speak with Keep Pedalling in Manchester.


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> Speak with Keep Pedalling in Manchester.


Thanks, I will do


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> Speak with Keep Pedalling in Manchester.


I wrote to few shops linked as sellers on Jones website. The common reply has been Jones is direct only these days


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Figured this thread needs a bump. I broke down and ordered the LWB complete. I figure that it will be perfect for towing my daughter around and just generally riding it everywhere. Also not be extra concerned about dings when locking it up when out and about like some lighter tubing bikes I’ve had. I have 50 or so miles on it so far and it is definitely comfortable. Different for sure, but comfortable. 

I’ve mostly done one short cruises with the trailer and sandy dirt road exploration and the bike handles very well. I ended up with the speedsters because the T fatty bike was out of stock. They tend to want to keep turning but I’m getting used to it. Going to take more riding to adjust to it and give a fair review but I’d say it’s favorable for now. 

I am having trouble with the front wheel, it’s about 1/4” out of dish to the drive side and a bit out of true as well, still waiting to hear back from Jones about it. Hope to hear back soon or I’ll just take it to my local shop. Been waiting to set it up tubeless till this is figured out.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

New still in the box Jones LWB med. complete. Listed in the classifieds if anyone or you know anyone that is interested.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

So my LWB complete issue seems to be a crooked fork, not the wheel. Still waiting to hear back. Seems they must be overwhelmed with business right now! At least it is rideable, even if it pulls a bit to the right.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

If any 135/142 Plus owners are looking for a second set of wheels, I'll be unloading mine. WTB KOM Lite i45 rims, Hope front/Shimano XT rear hubs, Sapim DB spokes. Shoot me a PM if interested.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Has anyone had to deal with Jones on a warranty issue? Another week (with a few emails and a couple messages left) and still no call, email, picking up the phone. Starting to get a little irritated.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I no longer have my Jones, but I always got quickest response time when I called directly.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Thank you. Yes, they do not email. I have called. Several times. I’ve left messages because they do not answer the phone. When I have talked to them, it has been “can you send us pictures of (whatever)” then, nothing. No answer, no call back.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

I was contacted finally! Now, I get to send the fork back. On my dime. And if it’s messed up, they will send me a new one. Fantastic since my bike is my car. Makes me miss doing business with larger companies (or smaller ones with ethics) that would send me a new one and I send back the defective one after. I really like my jones, but I’m not feeling anywhere near the warm and fuzzies from my experience.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I've built a few Jones bikes for people. I get the same story from each person when they bought their framesets from Jones. They call because that's what it says to do on the website. Three different people all told me Jeff Jones got on the phone with them and complained that he can't get any work done because he's always on the phone. Dodo.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Sounds about right. Oh well. Hopefully I will get the new fork next week. I didn’t get a response to my asking for a discount on the heat treated one as an option. I’d have really liked the upper eyelet for a rack mount! 

Side note, damn UPS is expensive! I had no boxes at all so I thought I’d go to them to box and ship it. $63 and the guy gave me a discount on everything! Crazy.


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

A lot od shops in UK stopped to deal with Jones for these reasons! He is not an easy person recently


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

That’s a shame to hear. Maybe they have just become too big with the complete bikes and need more help. I was trying to be patient because of Covid and all. Having to go without a bike for a week and a half or so just sucks!


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

It took a little while but Jones is sending a new fork. Not only that, they are sending the heat treated one! So that helps make up for the shipping cost at least! I’m looking forward to riding it and having it ride straight so I can give an honest review.

The only thing I have noticed so far is that the rear end bucks a decent bit on unsuspecting bumps. I will have to get used to how it rides and go from there.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Hope it's okay to post this here, but I've put my Jones LWB truss bike up for sale on FB. Love the bike, but I can't ride rigid on my trails anymore. 

Just in case anyone is looking...


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Jones #2 arrived today (Plus SWB Spaceframe w/truss fork).


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

Congrats on Jones #2. I love my LWB and could see putting together a SWB. Hell, I could even see putting together a 2nd LWB.

I got out on my LWB earlier this week. Such a great bike. I do sorta wish I had gotten the truss fork. I didn't think I'd love it this much. The PNW dropper post is great and I would strongly recommend it.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

Wish I could test ride one.

Thinking about getting a Krampus once 2021 models become available. Anyone ever compare a Jones to a Krampus?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Count me as another one waiting to hear back about a fork-related issue.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Count me as another one waiting to hear back about a fork-related issue.


Took a while but they got a new one to me. It is slightly off to the other side but the ride isn't affected. I looked at my wife's SWB and it is off as well. Can't believe I never tried to send it back. I'm honestly questioning the quality of the product now though.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

In my case, the brake mount is not perpendicular to the axle. It splays outward, which means you can't center the caliper w/o the caliper hitting the rotor.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Is that the truss or unicrown?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Truss


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Ouch! Hope they get it sorted quickly. Took almost a month of me calling to get mine. Stay on them! I think they need more help.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

LBIkid said:


> Hope it's okay to post this here, but I've put my Jones LWB truss bike up for sale on FB. Love the bike, but I can't ride rigid on my trails anymore.
> 
> Just in case anyone is looking...


Link?

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## Moof123 (Jul 1, 2019)

RFrahm said:


> Ouch! Hope they get it sorted quickly. Took almost a month of me calling to get mine. Stay on them! I think they need more help.


Given the premium frameset price that is really disappointing to hear. I'm thinking of getting a LWB frameset as a winter build to tinker on, maybe I'll wait a bit till they get things figured out better.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Just spoke to them and they've been w/o power and internet access. Considering what's going on in Oregon right now, my issue pales in importance.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

toadmeister said:


> Wish I could test ride one.
> 
> Thinking about getting a Krampus once 2021 models become available. Anyone ever compare a Jones to a Krampus?


I demo'd a couple SWB Jones bikes back in 2012 and then decided to buy an OG green Krampus instead. I love the Krampus and still have it. I have not ridden any of the newer iterations of Jeff's bikes and I have not ridden the new Krampus.

It's been a while since those demo rides. I don't recall anything wrong the SWB bikes I just wasn't blown away or motivated to buy one after the demos. My friend who owned the SWB bikes sold them and moved onto something else.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Just spoke to them and they've been w/o power and internet access. Considering what's going on in Oregon right now, my issue pales in importance.


Ouch. Might explain why they haven't answered my Email.

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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I'd possibly be in the market for a used LWB spaceframe. My wife said the other day, "so you don't have any Jones bike now?" (which I haven't for some time) and of course that got my head thinking again.....


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

*LWB Plus for an older rider?*

Jones curious here....

I have a 29+ ECR that has been taken over by my 72 year-old father. He loves the thing and I've only changed the contact points and the stem to raise the Jones loop bar a bit higher. Otherwise, while he has another bike (an '87 Nishiki, also with a Jones bar!) he almost exclusively rides the ECR on bike paths around town, usually 8-16 mile rides with the occasional dirt detours.

For a long time though, I've been intrigued by Jeff's bikes and builds and lately have been considering selling the ECR and building a LWB Plus. My question is whether or not it is worth getting rid of the ECR to build a Jones. I expect the more upright nature of the Jones would be more comfortable but having never seen one in the wild, I am unsure.

As it is, I figure my father has another easy decade of riding ahead of him. He jokes about getting an e-bike when he turns 80, and if that's his plan, I want to make sure he's still riding until that day comes. Thanks!


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

If he loves the ECR and is comfortable on it, why change?



nowhereyonder said:


> Jones curious here....
> 
> I have a 29+ ECR that has been taken over by my 72 year-old father. He loves the thing and I've only changed the contact points and the stem to raise the Jones loop bar a bit higher. Otherwise, while he has another bike (an '87 Nishiki, also with a Jones bar!) he almost exclusively rides the ECR on bike paths around town, usually 8-16 mile rides with the occasional dirt detours.
> 
> ...


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

nowhereyonder said:


> Jones curious here....
> 
> I have a 29+ ECR that has been taken over by my 72 year-old father. He loves the thing and I've only changed the contact points and the stem to raise the Jones loop bar a bit higher. Otherwise, while he has another bike (an '87 Nishiki, also with a Jones bar!) he almost exclusively rides the ECR on bike paths around town, usually 8-16 mile rides with the occasional dirt detours.
> 
> ...


That's awesome about your dad. Hope I'm riding and healthy in my 70s and still riding into my 80s. I imagine I'll need an Ebike by than.

Personally I feel biking is the closest thing I'll ever find as being my fountain of youth.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

seat_boy said:


> If he loves the ECR and is comfortable on it, why change?


Good question- I think it's moreover that I don't know how much more comfortable the Jones would be over the ECR in terms of riding position, but when it comes to reviews of Joneses it's always "comfortable."

The ECR is not quite that comfortable. Yes, it's like riding a sofa all day, but the stack and reach especially with the Jones loop bar is a bit short and long. It's fine in the dirt when you're moving your position a bit more, but when in a bit more constant position like he does over the bike paths, his arms are extended and he's a bit slouched. For both of us, the only part of the handlebar that gets used is the rear most, which makes the rest of it redundant.

I'd also say that dad generally doesn't know what he's missing; everything he's riding now I've kinda forced upon him, which is usually met with initial reticence which gives way to full enthusiasm within a spin around the block. He's had two other bikes in his adult life: the old Nishiki and a target Schwinn. The ECR is so far ahead of them that he really likes it, but again, I think the Jones could be even better.


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

toadmeister said:


> Personally I feel biking is the closest thing I'll ever find as being my fountain of youth.


He detached a retina a few years ago and his girlfriend at the time really wanted him to start "acting his age." The eye's good now and she's out of the picture so now it's easier for him to obsess over his strava numbers.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

I would seriously consider the jones LWB complete for him! The one thing I will say, I thought my ECR was a bit portly, the LWB feels quite a bit more so. That doesn’t come into play as far as feel, but after a few miles of a real grade, it matters. Flying downhill on the jones LWB can make up for the extra work on the ups though. 

I’m still in the trial stage with mine. I rode the SWB complete for about a 1000 miles before deciding I needed a larger size. The LWB is a completely different bike. Extremely capable in a different way. The complete will need better brakes. Unless the rides have mellow hills. On hills that last for miles like I’ve been on, they are almost a death sentence. Fortunately, the jones is super stable!


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

This thread needs pics.


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

RFrahm said:


> I would seriously consider the jones LWB complete for him!


Thanks RFrahm, glad to hear! Could you expound a bit more on the differences between the feel of the LWB and SWB? I'm leaning towards the LWB since he seems to very much like 29+ and most of his rides do not have much elevation gain and loss.

Great photos- love the sunset one and look forward to more days on trails like that.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

If 29+ is the only size you ever want to run, the LWB is great! The handling is far better than the ECR. The ECR did feel like it put down power better in my opinion. The jones feels soft like it absorbs more of the power. I ran my ECR single speed quite a bit and I’m not it sure I do go that way with the jones (even if I had the EBB). 

THe SWB is an amazing bike. It has more versatility with wheel and tire sizes. It rides more playful and is plenty stable. If those things are cared about, go for the SWB, great bike. 

I almost feel like the LWB complete feels too heavy to enjoy if the terrain gets steep with a load. I also haven’t found a comfortable pedaling position. I say it is great because it is, as a mountain bike. So far, for me, it climbs like I’m towing a small village. I’m not as out of shape as this bike makes me feel. I can still recommend the LWB highly, even if I’m still on the fence.


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

RFrahm said:


> I say it is great because it is, as a mountain bike. So far, for me, it climbs like I'm towing a small village.


Oof. Is this at all a function of tires or tubeless set up? Do you think the power absorption could be a factor of the Complete's tubing not being heat treated?

Interesting points otherwise. I'm on the fence about the SWB vs. the LWB. On the one hand, 27.5+ is more future proof than 29+. On the other, I have some 29+ Duro Cruxes sitting around collecting dust....


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

It is definitely heavy tires as a factor. But mostly that if I move forward and get power, I get numb hands. But this is completely my experience, not the normal it seems. As my second jones, I feel they are both a bit slow and steady. Nothing wrong with it, just my findings. Super comfortable and capable bikes, just slow and heavy. That doesn’t bother everyone! At higher speeds, I find the LWB to be a serious Cadillac. Smooth as silk. At low speeds just cruising, I find it can buck a decent bit at the rear. 

I have a lot of positive to say about them, but I think people don’t tend to bring up the negative here. If I had to choose one, I’d go SWB with 29x2.6. Then you have options from there. 29x3 can’t be beat for rough babyhead boulder track though. So if that’s what you ride, LWB all the way!


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

RFrahm said:


> I have a lot of positive to say about them, but I think people don't tend to bring up the negative here. If I had to choose one, I'd go SWB with 29x2.6. Then you have options from there. 29x3 can't be beat for rough babyhead boulder track though. So if that's what you ride, LWB all the way!


I feel as though I read that a few times on all the bikepackingdotcom reviews- that the LWB is a great bike, smooth and a better mountain bike of the two, but if forced to go with just one then the SWB is where it's at.

If I could get him to ride one I think I'd have him sold. A lack of demos means some blind faith....

Thanks for your take!


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

What’s the frame difference between the complete bikes and purchased frames? Did I hear somewhere that the only the purchased frames are heat treated?

Wondering if anyone can comment on the “feel” difference between heat treated and non? I understand the metturalurgical differences, just not what it feels like to a rider and if it’s of value to me.

I’d ask Jones directly if I was able to talk with them.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

toadmeister said:


> What's the frame difference between the complete bikes and purchased frames? Did I hear somewhere that the only the purchased frames are heat treated?
> 
> Wondering if anyone can comment on the "feel" difference between heat treated and non? I understand the metturalurgical differences, just not what it feels like to a rider and if it's of value to me.
> 
> I'd ask Jones directly if I was able to talk with them.


The complete also doesn't have the eccentric BB. So you can't do the BB adjustments to have higher or lower or more forward/backward BB. that will have some impact on riding. but in general, there should not be much of a difference. the complete has cheap components, and the cheap(er) frame. I don't see the benefit, really. you can buy a complete for $2K, or buy the frame and get nicer components for $2.2K give or take and get a better bike. The complete would make sense if it was a really cheap bike as a starter Jones, but once you spend $2K on a bike, you want good things.

The whole thing about Jones is the frame, so that isn't the part I would cheap out on. A steel bike is heavy to begin with, no need to make it even heavier.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

HerrKaLeu said:


> The complete also doesn't have the eccentric BB. So you can't do the BB adjustments to have higher or lower or more forward/backward BB. that will have some impact on riding. but in general, there should not be much of a difference. the complete has cheap components, and the cheap(er) frame. I don't see the benefit, really. you can buy a complete for $2K, or buy the frame and get nicer components for $2.2K give or take and get a better bike. The complete would make sense if it was a really cheap bike as a starter Jones, but once you spend $2K on a bike, you want good things.
> 
> The whole thing about Jones is the frame, so that isn't the part I would cheap out on. A steel bike is heavy to begin with, no need to make it even heavier.


Thanks for input. I did know about the BB but glad you mentioned it.

I'm leaning towards buying the frameset and truss fork as I want to do install higher spec drivetrain and brake component's.

Still wondering about the heat treatment.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

*Swb ftw*

Been riding a SWB for 18 months now. Absolutely love it!

I went with the nicer frame with EBB and a truss fork. I built it up with parts that I had procured over a year or two. I knew what I wanted and slowly bought parts when it was what I was looking for at the right price. My build with frame and fork was around $2,500. For me this made more sense than buying the complete for only a little less. I'm not tall at 5'7" so the SWB makes sense, but I still would love to throw a leg over a LWB.

Based on the review by Cass, a guy who owns both SWB and LWB, who is tall and who spends hundreds of days on the bike he prefers the SWB.

I've bike packed on mine, ride gravel and ridden miles on local single track and the SWB does all superbly. I have a "trail bike" with a fork and a dropper etc too but the SWB is pretty amazing.

Here is the long term review from Cass for reference. Check out his IG account for photos of this bike all over the world. Feel free to ask any questions and if anyone is in Flagstaff and wants to test ride a medium SWB holler. https://bikepacking.com/bikes/jones-plus-swb-complete-review/


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

wilson1417 said:


> Based on the review by Cass, a guy who owns both SWB and LWB, who is tall and who spends hundreds of days on the bike he prefers the SWB.


That's the problem with Cass. He says things like this which makes me question my decisions:
_
I actually prefer the LWB for trail riding, but if it was only one bike&#8230; it would likely be the SWB because it suits my lifestyle better. (Of course, I'd need to try the Ti LWB Spacefame to really know.)
_
And says things like this:

_Overall, I prefer the LWB as a mountain bike. Its sense of 'Jonesness' feels more obvious and it's truer to how I interpret the Jones vision of a perfect rigid mountain bike. Every time I ride it, I'm reminded by how its geometry makes it unique. Its 76mm fork offset serves to quicken the steering and kick the front wheel far out in front of you, magically meshing with its long wheel base and a relatively slack, 67.5° head angle. When I jump on the SWB, these telltale signs are there but they're not as immediately apparent. You could argue this as a pro or a con, because whilst the SWB is definitely a Jones through and through, I don't think it requires the same amount of shift in muscle memory to tune into. The LWB always takes me a moment to adjust to.
....
The Colorado Trail is pretty hard going in places.... In my opinion, the LWB is better suited to that kind of riding, given its larger diameter tyres, longer wheelbase and extra fork offset.
....
And yet&#8230; having had access to both bikes, I've found myself gravitating more towards the SWB more than the LWB for both day to day use .... and overseas trips. It's easier to box or bag and all things being equal, a little lighter. With the choice of 27.5+ or 29×2.6, it could be more 'futureproofed too, depending on the availability of 29x3in rubber in the coming years.

_For the most part, I think Cass' style of riding matches to my own fairly well in terms of terrain and trails, so he's helped conflate the decision (For those who don't know, his blog, while no longer maintained, is a bikepacking treasure and always worth a read). I already have an "overseas" bike as he calls it, as well as something to take down the CT again, so that is not a selling point here.

I have no idea how you Jones owners decided.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

After talking with Cass, I decided to give the LWB a try. I honestly like the bike quite a bit. Other than it feels like a power robbing slug. Extremely stable but slow, unless pointed downhill, then it’s not far off from a suspension bike in my opinion. 

The SWB isn’t much lighter, but it feels fun and playful. I had the medium and it was definitely too small. Despite jones saying otherwise. The large LWB is giving me my first case of hand numbness, no matter what I have done. I never had that issue with jones bars before and have set them up on three bikes. No idea what is up there. 

I highly recommend both of them in their own way. But I’d go for the SWB in a large if I had it to do over. 100mi in and I have the LWB listed to be honest. I truly feel at 36lbs unloaded with no pedals it is too heavy to enjoy. While the SWB at 34lbs feels much lighter in comparison. Just my experience so far.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

RFrahm said:


> After talking with Cass, I decided to give the LWB a try. I honestly like the bike quite a bit. Other than it feels like a power robbing slug. Extremely stable but slow, unless pointed downhill, then it's not far off from a suspension bike in my opinion.
> 
> The SWB isn't much lighter, but it feels fun and playful. I had the medium and it was definitely too small. Despite jones saying otherwise. The large LWB is giving me my first case of hand numbness, no matter what I have done. I never had that issue with jones bars before and have set them up on three bikes. No idea what is up there.
> 
> I highly recommend both of them in their own way. But I'd go for the SWB in a large if I had it to do over. 100mi in and I have the LWB listed to be honest. I truly feel at 36lbs unloaded with no pedals it is too heavy to enjoy. While the SWB at 34lbs feels much lighter in comparison. Just my experience so far.


Where you got it listed?

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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Local Palm Springs Craigslist for now. I’m not sure I am serious about selling it yet but thought I’d see if there was interest. I’m not sure I want to deal with shipping this beast yet!


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How much does the Ti models weigh complete?


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

I think the SWB Ti Cass is riding is just over 24lbs. All Ti and carbon build, as good as it gets.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

RFrahm said:


> Local Palm Springs Craigslist for now. I'm not sure I am serious about selling it yet but thought I'd see if there was interest. I'm not sure I want to deal with shipping this beast yet!


Thanks, found it. I'm in the Midwest so I can't swing by to test ride unfortunately 

Problem for me is finding one locally to even test ride!

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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

toadmeister said:


> Thanks, found it. I'm in the Midwest so I can't swing by to test ride unfortunately
> 
> Problem for me is finding one locally to even test ride!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry! It would be great if there were more around to test ride. It really is a unique ride that I don't think ink can be appreciated till it's pointed downhill in the rough. Seriously confidence inspiring. It actually likes to catch some decent air! I feel that's what it is for, mountain biking. It's pig on the road (to me). I'd probably keep it if I could have multiple bikes. And I might still keep it.


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

Anyone have a medium SWB or LWB around Fort Collins they'd be willing to let someone test ride?


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## sharp21 (Jul 25, 2014)

I bought my medium SWB on faith and absolutely love it. While definitely heavier than the 23lb bike I came off, it doesn't feel like it. Where I used to get battered around now my avg times are faster but feel a lot more relaxed. It just floats over everything I ride.

I'm planning on upgrading the brakes and adding a dropper post, because this thing is a wheelie machine. Dream upgrade are the truss fork and a lighter wheelset, but that's probably wishful thinking.

I'm looking for a kickstand that integrates nicely if ya'll have any recommendations!


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Sending my truss fork back to Jones for inspection, etc. Despite trying multiple brakes, rotors, and IS adapters, the caliper cannot be centered over the rotor w/o the caliper hitting the rotor (i.e. brake mount is not perpendicular to axle). Bums me out, but what's going on in Oregon is way more serious than my minor inconvenience.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Oddly, for a mountain bike, I tried a kickstand on my Jones. All I can say is I don't recommend the Soma kickstand that clamps on the chainstay:












sharp21 said:


> I bought my medium SWB on faith and absolutely love it. While definitely heavier than the 23lb bike I came off, it doesn't feel like it. Where I used to get battered around now my avg times are faster but feel a lot more relaxed. It just floats over everything I ride.
> 
> I'm planning on upgrading the brakes and adding a dropper post, because this thing is a wheelie machine. Dream upgrade are the truss fork and a lighter wheelset, but that's probably wishful thinking.
> 
> I'm looking for a kickstand that integrates nicely if ya'll have any recommendations!


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Sending my truss fork back to Jones for inspection, etc. Despite trying multiple brakes, rotors, and IS adapters, the caliper cannot be centered over the rotor w/o the caliper hitting the rotor (i.e. brake mount is not perpendicular to axle). Bums me out, but what's going on in Oregon is way more serious than my minor inconvenience.


Has the caliper mount been faced? I had the same issue on another fork with weird amount of powdercoating. The LBS faced it and problem solved.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

nowhereyonder said:


> Has the caliper mount been faced? I had the same issue on another fork with weird amount of powdercoating. The LBS faced it and problem solved.


No, it hasn't been faced. I'm hoping that's all it needs (I ran the same caliper and IS adapter on my old Jones w/o issues).


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## sharp21 (Jul 25, 2014)

seat_boy said:


> Oddly, for a mountain bike, I tried a kickstand on my Jones. All I can say is I don't recommend the Soma kickstand that clamps on the chainstay:


I do a lot of varied riding, with single track maybe once a week. The convenience factor of a kickstand outweighs the nerd factor for me.

Although I suppose I could look into some kind of floor stand...

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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Check out the click stand. As long as you always ride with some sort of storage they work great!
Click-Stand Home Page


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Word from Jones is that my fork's brake mounts need facing. That'll hopefully get done next week.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Received my fork from Jones yesterday, and facing the brake mount fixed the alignment issue. No problem aligning the caliper, but my brake would probably benefit from cleaning and a bleed.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Jones has got to be losing his mind that all of the three and three and a quarter inch tires are becoming extinct.


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## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Maybe that'll put him over the side to do a full fat bike... I email and ask every few years. A steel space frame for 26x5 and 29x3 would be amazing.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Glenngineer said:


> Maybe that'll put him over the side to do a full fat bike... I email and ask every few years. A steel space frame for 26x5 and 29x3 would be amazing.


Ooooh yes! !


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> Jones has got to be losing his mind that all of the three and three and a quarter inch tires are becoming extinct.


Well, yaaaa!!!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Glenngineer said:


> Maybe that'll put him over the side to do a full fat bike... I email and ask every few years. A steel space frame for 26x5 and 29x3 would be amazing.


Hell yes.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Jeff built a fat bike many years ago. Back when the fat front was a big deal. Of course there weren’t any 5 inch tires available. There’s a video, I suppose if you dig way back. He probably still has the bike he doesn’t sell any of his prototypes. 


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Can anyone recommend a feed/bar bag that works well with short stems (70mm) and Loop bars? Nothing too big, just something to carry a standard-sized water bottle.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Can anyone recommend a feed/bar bag that works well with short stems (70mm) and Loop bars? Nothing too big, just something to carry a standard-sized water bottle.


I use the Revlate feed bag and it holds a water bottle well, I use on the other side a Bedrock Tapeats for my bearspray can. The Bingo Components B1 or Rockgeist Spacelink are headset spacers are nice attachments are nice but at $20+ a spacer they are not needed that bad.


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## Moof123 (Jul 1, 2019)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Can anyone recommend a feed/bar bag that works well with short stems (70mm) and Loop bars? Nothing too big, just something to carry a standard-sized water bottle.


My Revelate feed bag lives on the left side over by the front brake lever. I don't have the super long grips, so there is enough of a space to lash the 2" wide velcro on, then a narrow piece of one-wrap goes around the loop of my H-bars. Not perfect, but plenty decent.

My Mag Tank 2000 is wide enough that even a good sized stem would not prevent the feed bag and mag tank from squishing each other if it was mounted on the stem.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Oveja Negra Chuckbucket*

I use the Oveja Negra Chuckbucket and really like it. I also have a 70mm stem. ON makes solid stuff. I also have one of their hip packs and really like it.

https://www.ovejanegrabikepacking.com/collections/handlebar-bags


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Jones inventory.*

Anyone have any idea on when Jones will have frames back in stock? Seems like they're out of almost everything. I did email them but the response was pretty vague. I get it they'r'e busy and probably being bombarded by emails.

I really curious as to whether they're going to do a steal LWB spaceframe.

I imagine the next batch of SWB completes will be kitted out similar to the complete LWB with SRAM stuff.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

dfltroll said:


> I really curious as to whether they're going to do a steel LWB spaceframe.
> 
> I imagine the next batch of SWB completes will be kitted out similar to the complete LWB with SRAM stuff.


I had asked a while ago about a steel LWB, and this was their reply - "Hello J****,
The Steel LWB has never been available in the Spaceframe version. They are available in Titanium. Here is a link to that frameset: https://jonesbikes.com/jones-titanium-plus-lwb-spaceframe-with-titanium-truss-fork/

The options available are shown in the chart below. Our Steel LWB Diamond frames come in Medium and Large."

So we just have to start pinching pennies!  The SWB spaceframe can fit a 29x2.6"right? I may consider that, but further down the road when some extra funds show up.


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

To a 5’7” high man would you suggest the 23 LWB spaceframe or the SWB? I would use both with 29x2.6, for long all day gravel/off road week end rides, and some easy MTB trail weekdays rides. Thanks


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Steel LWB*



Redlands R&C said:


> I had asked a while ago about a steel LWB, and this was their reply - "Hello J****,
> The Steel LWB has never been available in the Spaceframe version. They are available in Titanium. Here is a link to that frameset: https://jonesbikes.com/jones-titanium-plus-lwb-spaceframe-with-titanium-truss-fork/
> 
> The options available are shown in the chart below. Our Steel LWB Diamond frames come in Medium and Large."
> ...


They show a steel LWB frame on their website, but only in size small. They also do a medium steel SWB. On an older blog post he mentions that more sizes of steel spaceframes will be available in the future. I get it that maybe the design doesn't work in larger sizes. I asked them about it and just got this vague answer that I could sign up for updates on products. Also, apparently there's no plan to change the seat tube diameter which I get, but options for 27.2 droppers are pretty limited.

Here's the link for the steel LWB:
https://jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-lwb-spaceframe-with-steel-truss-fork-size-small-only/


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

SWB is more versitile IMO. Perfect gravel, touring, bikepacking bike that can handle offroad rides. I'm 5'7" with short legs and dig the M SWB. 29+ bikes can be pigs to get up to speed.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

I rode a Plus LWB for almost three years and replaced it with an SWB Plus. The LWB was better at high-speed descents, but the SWB feels much "sportier," and is a better all-around machine (at least for me).


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## teddyuk (Aug 26, 2012)

@wilson1417 and @GRAVELBIKE thanks


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

dfltroll said:


> They show a steel LWB frame on their website, but only in size small. They also do a medium steel SWB. On an older blog post he mentions that more sizes of steel spaceframes will be available in the future. I get it that maybe the design doesn't work in larger sizes. I asked them about it and just got this vague answer that I could sign up for updates on products. Also, apparently there's no plan to change the seat tube diameter which I get, but options for 27.2 droppers are pretty limited.
> 
> Here's the link for the steel LWB:
> https://jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-lwb-spaceframe-with-steel-truss-fork-size-small-only/


Yeah, I kind of wrote off the spaceframe for these reasons. I can't afford Ti and I'm too tall for the "S" steel version. And if you ride where the spaceframe is useful and you need the standover it allows, you also want a decent dropper. that probably wasn't the case when it was originally designed, but nowadays a 150+ mm dropper is standard for a single track bike.

The diamond frame IMHO has too high standover for single track. At least for riders like me that sometimes get stuck over rocks etc. So that limits Jones use for me to touring/gravel use.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Any recommendations for packs/bags that fit the Spaceframe and still allow use of a bottle cage (top side of downtube)? The full-size Revelate bag looks nice, but I don't want to give up the bottle cage.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Any recommendations for packs/bags that fit the Spaceframe and still allow use of a bottle cage (top side of downtube)? The full-size Revelate bag looks nice, but I don't want to give up the bottle cage.


Not what you are looking for but I go full roadie and use the King Cage top stem cap cage adapter.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Any recommendations for packs/bags that fit the Spaceframe and still allow use of a bottle cage (top side of downtube)? The full-size Revelate bag looks nice, but I don't want to give up the bottle cage.


I'm assuming your SpaceFrame is the same/similar to my 12 year old model, and if so, I can only imagine a bag being razor thin (i.e., useless) if it still allowed a cage inside the triangle 

I did see these Cyclewerks cage adaptors which allows you to mount them to the side of frame bags, but I'd be afraid they'd hit the cranks or even your legs because of the low mount position of the cage on this frame... but maybe it's just my imagination.










What I've done was just use a partially filled bladder in my SpaceFrame triangle pack, mounted cages to my Truss fork, or use a feedbag.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

I decided to go with Jones' Revelate-made bag and install some bottle cages on the truss fork.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

Has anyone put the Jones Truss fork on a random steel frame?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> I decided to go with Jones' Revelate-made bag and install some bottle cages on the truss fork.


Have to say that the Revelate pack is surprisingly capacious.


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## ironacct (Jan 2, 2012)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Have to say that the Revelate pack is surprisingly capacious.


+1 I usually carry a tube, pump, rain jacket and a 24oz bottle in the main compartment with room to spare. FWIW, the bottle is pretty easy to access on the fly. The zipper works well one-handed.


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## RFrahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Anyone interested in a Jones/Revelate frame bag for the size large LWB? Message me if interested! Bag was used for an overnight trip but is like new.


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## nowhereyonder (Nov 29, 2016)

This thread is pretty dormant, much like Jones's stock. But what the heck.

In Sept 2020 I inquired in this thread about a Jones LWB to replace a Surly ECR, a bike I loved, for my father. I decided to try the Jones Flavor-Aid and started amassing budget parts thinking a a diamond frame LWB frame with a unicorn fork would show up at some point. Bitex hubs, Rabbit Holes, 11 speed SLX, BB7s, Duro Cruxs and a RF Aeffect crank. Other than the crank, I picked up everything secondhand or on sale with the expectation that the frame would be in stock in late 2020. In early spring 2021 I laced up the wheels thinking, "_any day now_." Ha.

I gave up and started looking at PB and ended up finding a steel SWB spaceframe for an amazing price with some fun accouterment: Hope/Duroc wheels, a Terevail 3.0/ Maxxis 3.8 combo, sram eagle NX, Magura hydraulics and a fancy ti Jones loop bar. Brought it home and took it for a spin. 









It's been set up since how I thought dad would like it with the 29" wheelset and some faster rolling Surly ET's. I made a lace up/ bolt on frame bag with a fabric he chose.









It still does fine in the dirt and rocks except where maybe some front squish would be appreciated. 









The best part was the gamble of switching dad's favorite ECR for a Jones completely paid off, even if it wasn't the bike I was expecting. The SWB as it is setup is his favorite bike to date. Every ride brings smiles, and when I ask what could be changed or upgraded, he has no suggestions. It's perfect. 








Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread for the inspiration.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

Glad it worked out for you! I too, drank the Jones kool-aid sight unseen but on a Titanium Plus LWB right off the boat in 2018 and out of five MTB’s it’s the only one I ride. I’m glad I haven’t been trying to source the parts for that build in the past year! Enjoy.


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## ironacct (Jan 2, 2012)

Nice! Good to hear another Jones success story. Three years in and still in love with my SWB. Incidentally, for anyone else gathering parts, I just bought new wheels for my SWB, so I've got a 29+ spare wheelset. DT 350s laced to WTB i40 Scrapers. Shoot me a note if there's any interest.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Anyone know of a medium Diamond/Truss for sale anywhere?


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## Salubrious (Dec 21, 2015)

Rolling Mountain Pass south of Silverton on the Colorado Trail


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## Degen_Foiler (11 mo ago)

My 6 year old Jones LWB. Medium frame. Thomson bars, stem and seatpost. Brooks C13 saddle. Paul’s Klampers. Roswheel large frame bag. Derby rims/I9 hubs. Shimano 12 speed. Raceface Atlas pedals. Fast and capable.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

beautiful bike and scenery! what british island?


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## Degen_Foiler (11 mo ago)

fishwrinkle said:


> beautiful bike and scenery! what british island?


Hog Bay Park, Bermuda.


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Not a plus, but I'll keep it going with my 29er spaceframe









27.5 x 4 up front, 29x 2.4 out back


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## Nomad77 (May 21, 2021)

Mine preride yesterday, left the phone on my workbench so no ride pics 🤦‍♂️


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## Etu (10 mo ago)

I have had my Jones for several years. Great all around bike. Does great for all the trails around the SF Bay Area.
The ride quality and the geometry is really interesting, even a bit confusing now that I recently got a standard FS trail bike. Experimenting with shorter reach and taller stack to see if I can get it even more capable on the trails.


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## Etu (10 mo ago)

Has anyone tried replicating the Jones ride quality in a suspension frame, either hardtail or FS? I figure a part of the magic sauce is the relatively short trail from the long rake fork, along with a short reach that puts you upright, all in a long wheelbase package - not quite what you find on a off the shelf bike these days with steep seat tube angle and slack head tube angle.


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

My SWB complete still going strong after four years. Strongly considering getting some 29" wheels built up, as 27.5x3.0 selection is dwindling. Plus, since I'm using the bike more for mixed terrain these days, I'd probably be happier on narrower tires. I'd considered throwing something like 27.5x2.5 Extraterrestrials on, but I'm not sure if I want the BB any lower.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Go with a 29er wheelset?


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Etu said:


> I have had my Jones for several years. Great all around bike. Does great for all the trails around the SF Bay Area.
> The ride quality and the geometry is really interesting, even a bit confusing now that I recently got a standard FS trail bike. Experimenting with shorter reach and taller stack to see if I can get it even more capable on the trails.
> 
> View attachment 1984892


Looks like an excellent set up as is. I don’t know if I’d add more stack, as it seems like the bars are at or above the saddle already. Maybe adjust reach if you feel too stretched out.

What’s the bike weigh, by the way?


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

If anyone has a medium Diamond/Truss LWB frameset or complete, I’d be interested. Especially if it’s the old mustard yellow/brown color.


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## Etu (10 mo ago)

2:01 said:


> Looks like an excellent set up as is. I don’t know if I’d add more stack, as it seems like the bars are at or above the saddle already. Maybe adjust reach if you feel too stretched out.
> 
> What’s the bike weigh, by the way?


I started with shortening the reach and then increased the stack. I have short arms so bringing the bar closer has put me at the edge of an upright position before the front gets too light. This change has made the front feel smoother, minimizing harshness over chunkier terrain which encourages you to ride a bit faster, but then since everything comes through the legs, you can end up going at pace where your legs can't soak up the bumps adequately. Makes you wonder what a little bit of rear travel would do to this bike, other than not making it a Jones?

It weighs somewhere around 28lbs.


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## Ondamat (Sep 17, 2014)

Took a few years of patience but damn was it worth the wait! Love this thing.


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