# Rogue Hoe -- handle length?



## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

We are beginning a trail project here in Munising, and I am thinking to buy one or two Rogue Hoes. 

Egads! They come in different handle lengths. It's the angst of frame sizing all over again. 

Does anyone have experience using the different lengths? I can choose 40", 48", and 54". How to decide? Any wisdom on picking a good length is much appreciated.

Cost of these things is depressing, but I guess no worse than the typical bike part.


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## splitter_66 (Oct 19, 2004)

I have all sizes for the crew. Only the 54s get used. They are easy to choke down on if necessary.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

We have several 40", hickory, axe-handle style rogue hoes. We just got our first 54", straight, ash handled hoe. I do like the extra length, but it doesn't seem quite as rugged. I suggest you buy one of each and see what you like more.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

So I am 5' 9" with a 32" inseam. Should I go with a medium then? What about standover? When I'm goldbricking, I'll need to stand over the hoe, right?



I have some lower back trouble. Maybe in light of that the longer handle would be A Good Thing (tm). Then I might not need to bend over so much. 

Splitter, it is interesting that no one in your crew uses the smaller sizes. You have all three lengths available, and only the longer ones get used? Is that right?


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*40" here*

For our WI soils, loamy, clay, some sand, we prefer the 40" curved hickory ax style handles.


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## blum585 (Mar 28, 2012)

IMO the Axe Handle is always the best option for trail building... (cutting through roots and such), gardening, that's probably a whole different story...


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

I'm 5'8" and prefer the heavier 40" Rogue Hoe with the curved hickory handle. The blade is heavier than the models with the longer handles, and cuts dirt and small roots well. However, it probably is too short for someone much taller than me.

Walt


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## dhouskee (Oct 20, 2007)

40 axe handle style\length...the great thing about these rogue hoes is how easy they cut bench. They work better than a pulaski for removing dirt to get your bench and will cut roots if needed but I like having the pulaski with me to work in combination (keep your rogue hoe edge sharp and let the pulaski do the roots and rocks). I'd rather have the full chopping motion of a shorter rogue hoe than a longer one. The mcleod is a good finishing tool and great for tamping trail.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

Well if we're opening the conversation up to other tools....

I have a few tools stored out on a trail that I'm building. The collection includes a fire rake, a pulaski and a rogue hoe (40" handle). I really like having all three. I clear the duff with the fire rake, cut the soil/roots up with the pulaski, excavate the loosed soil with the rogue hoe, then finish with the fire rake and rogue hoe. Mcleod is a little better for finishing, but I can live with out it.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

Rogue hoe makes a lot of different models, what model are you guys talking about? I just bought a 70F with 60" handle.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

dhouskee said:


> 4The mcleod is a good finishing tool and great for tamping trail.


Isn't the Rogue Hoe essentially a McLeod? How are they different? They both are blades with a rake on one side.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

I think most of our rogue hoes are the 60A Pick-Hoe, but I rarely use the pick side of it. 

The rogue hoes are made from much thicker metal than a McLeod. They also come ground to a sharp edge. You can use them to dig, grub out sapplings and cut sod. A McLeod is wider, less sharp and lighter. It won't do any of those things well. A McLeod does a nice job of scraping/pushing dirt around to finish a tread and you can tamp with it. 

I find the rake side of the McLeod pretty useless for removing duff. It just seems to get hung up on everything. A nice sharp fire rake does a much better job because it cuts through the small roots easily.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

JDM said:


> I find the rake side of the McLeod pretty useless for removing duff. It just seems to get hung up on everything. A nice sharp fire rake does a much better job because it cuts through the small roots easily.


Hmmm....Perhaps I should get a fire rake too then.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

JonathanGennick said:


> Hmmm....Perhaps I should get a fire rake too then.


He is talking about a McLeod, get a Rogue Hoe, I have three.

Like the old Lays potato chip ad, one ain't enough; I have Rogue FB70H, 70HR54, and 80RH just given to try / evaluate, and see if we want more for the tool trailer.

The 70HR54 has replaced my trusty 4 tine McLeod, I still sometimes want a standard 6 tine McLeod, but the 70HR54 now can handle about 80% of what I want to build / maintain / repair. And an occasional pulaski or pick mattock, sometimes a rock bar, sometimes a doublejack, power hedger, loppers, chainsaw, BoB, beloved R5....... Gotta have a stock of tools!


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

slocaus said:


> The 70HR54 has replaced my trusty 4 tine McLeod, I still sometimes want a standard 6 tine McLeod, but the 70HR54 now can handle about 80% of what I want to build / maintain / repair. And an occasional pulaski or pick mattock, sometimes a rock bar, sometimes a doublejack, power hedger, loppers, chainsaw, BoB, beloved R5....... Gotta have a stock of tools!


Well, we are just getting started up here. The 70 is what I'm after. Looks like a McLeod, but appears much heftier. I've never had luck with the rake side of a standard McLeod, and the chopping side isn't all that great either. I'm hoping the Rogue Hoe version does better.

The person in charge wants us to just rake first, so he can ride and be sure he's happy with the flow before we bench. That's why I'm thinking to pick up a couple of those fire rakes.

Eventually I'll develop a stock of tools, but that will need to happen over time.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

I have tried 4 different rogue hoe models and I like all of them. I haven't tried the new rake/hoe pictured above, but it looks like a good one to try if you can only get one tool.

Sometimes running a roughed-in section gives you a better feel for flow than riding it because it can be hard to go fast enough to do a good test on a bike.


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

*If you only have...*

...one tool to carry then the 70H (40" curved "axe" handle) is the way to go. It takes a little to get used to but it's an amazingly capable tool. It'll do the work of a McLeod and a mattock; it digs better than a McLeod and can scrape far better than a mattock.

The main "trick" I learned is that when the digging gets tough (rocks, roots) swing the tool rotated 45 degrees so the corner "points" can cleave deep. I also try to keep the side edges sharp and use them for cutting through roots.

Well worth the money IMHO...


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## BonkedAgain (Aug 23, 2005)

What's all this talk about raking, and roots, and stuff like that?... You people must live where things grow! We don't deal with much of that here in the arid west. Out here it's mostly about moving dirt. My favorite tools are Pick Mattock, Shovel, McLeod.

I tried to get our tool guys to take a look at Rogue Hoes and they basically said Meh. They weren't interested.  Oh well, someday I will give them a try.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

I'm in New Hampsire. We've got lots of roots and rocks to play with.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

70H mostly around here. 40" curved handle. The rest of the Rogue remain in the truck most of the time. Can't go wrong with this classic.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

The 70H is my favorite, too. The 40" axe-style handle just feels nice, and you can swing the thing pretty hard if you need to cut roots or small trees.


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## R900 (Feb 23, 2012)

Mine came today, so I ran out to the trail and did a little work. The 54" seemed great for general hole filling, bench repair, tapping, and root cutting. I think if I was cutting a big bench, the 40" curved handle might be perfect. I was very pleased to walk the trail with one tool and make a lot of simple repairs.


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## TrailYoda (Feb 23, 2009)

Johnathan,

I've been building for over 15 years and have a vast amount of tools and as in any "tool box" situation there are some tools that are better suited for different tasks. 

But you can't go wrong with the Rogue Hoe, it is a quaility tool that works great for bench cutting trail. When I have gone to other club workday's folks always try the RH and want one.

Since you are just starting out, the first three tools you are going to want are, Rogue Hoe 70H, a pulaski, and a McLeod. I have the RH's 55H, 70H and 80H all with the 40" hickory handle which is a very good handle and will be a great length for your height.. The majority of the 12 Rogue Hoes I've gotten are the 70H. Which are the best all around size and weight for the average person. I only got 2 - 55H's for a few of the women and the smaller guys to use.

A friend of mine is building some trail on his farm and I recommended that he go with a pulaski and the 80H and skip the McLeod. This is an effective combination and since you only have two hands it is easier to carry and use just two tools. The 80H has a big head and can move a lot of soil like a Mcleod but can cut easily through roots that a Mcleod just can't handle. 

If you are an IMBA member you can call Phyllis on the phone at 417-962-5091 and I think she will give you a discount off of list price on the tool(s) you purchase.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice. I'm going to order up some 70Hs. I think I'm going to buy four, at least, to supply my son and his friends. The rest of the crew will have to fend for themselves.

This evening was our first work bee, btw. It was a screaming success. Of the people whom I personally tried to recruit, six of them showed up. We had maybe 15 altogether. No one really thought to count. 

It looks like the 70H is all I really need. That, and maybe some more leaf rakes. I had thought to also buy some fire rakes, but now I'm not so sure. 

Hey, I should post up some photos. Let me go and grab them off my phone...


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

*Some photos*

We'll begin with the Goldbrickers. LOL! Really though, these guys had just met and were taking a well-earned break.









There's a small sapling stump that you can't see well. This kid chopped dozens of mostly half-inch to two-inch saplings.









Raking.









More raking.









A few of the older workers.









So there you have it. Munising's first singletrack work bee.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

The model 60A w/ curved hickory handle and tool is it. Now move on to buying your clinometer and heavy duty 50 - 100 ft tape measure.

You said you're just beginning. Trust me when I say you want those items, and add IMBA's trail text book to share with others even you think you know it all.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

bitflogger said:


> TNow move on to buying your clinometer and heavy duty 50 - 100 ft tape measure.


Not my department. The guy leading the project has a clinometer. He's done all the layout. The rest of us are labor. My interest right now is on tools to get the work done.



> You said you're just beginning. Trust me when I say you want those items, and add IMBA's trail text book to share with others even you think you know it all.


Several of us have the book. I actually have *both* IMBA guides.

Edit: I've actually helped with some rerouting and maintenance on Bruno's Run, a system a few miles away. So I'm not totally new to trail work, though I would not say I'm very experienced either. I haven't ever bought tools before though. Bruno's is Forest Service, so we just use their tools on their trail. But now we are building on city land, so we need our own tools.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

One last question before I place my order: Why do I care about the hoe being sharp on three sides? The 70H is sharp on three sides. The 55H is sharp on the bottom only. 

I can't imagine hitting anything with the side of the hoe. Is there some reason for three-sided sharpening that I am ignorant of? Clue me in fellas.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

JonathanGennick said:


> One last question before I place my order: Why do I care about the hoe being sharp on three sides? The 70H is sharp on three sides. The 55H is sharp on the bottom only.
> 
> I can't imagine hitting anything with the side of the hoe. Is there some reason for three-sided sharpening that I am ignorant of? Clue me in fellas.


I'm not positive about this, but I think it's so it cuts into the ground a little better. The whole side isn't sharpened; it's just an inch or two.

FYI, Rogue hoes are awesome for cutting through small sapplings like the one in your picture. I think it's often easier to take them out with the hoe than an axe.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

s0ckeyeus said:


> I'm not positive about this, but I think it's so it cuts into the ground a little better. The whole side isn't sharpened; it's just an inch or two.


That makes sense. And I've already placed the order, so too late now to change. I ordered up four of them. Shipping sure costs on that heavy stuff. Used to be you could get a ho for two bucks...



> FYI, Rogue hoes are awesome for cutting through small sapplings like the one in your picture. I think it's often easier to take them out with the hoe than an axe.


I tend to agree, by the looks of things, and I look forward to making the experiment.


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

JonathanGennick said:


> One last question before I place my order: Why do I care about the hoe being sharp on three sides? The 70H is sharp on three sides. The 55H is sharp on the bottom only.
> 
> I can't imagine hitting anything with the side of the hoe. Is there some reason for three-sided sharpening that I am ignorant of? Clue me in fellas.


It's good for when the digging gets tough (dried clay, compacted gravel); swing the tool with it twisted 45 degrees and now you have a pointed tool. (Albeit a 90 degree point) Also good for getting behind small rocks to pry them out of the ground.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

No 70Hs in stock this week, so I changed my order to some 60As. They were a close, second-choice. On the one hand, I'm not always fond of combining two tools into on. OTOH, that spiky tip on the back side might come in handy.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

*They are here!*

Don't they look delicious?

Am a little worried I should've held out for the seven-inch model (without the spike). Six inches looks a bit narrow in person. I'll know soon enough though. Can't wait to sink one into something besides my back lawn.


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

Don't worry. They are really all great tools and the differences aren't that big.


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