# where to get a custom unicycle frame built? In Canada if possible.



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

Hey guys, not sure if this is really the place to ask this but I bet you know a lot more of the frame builders than I do. I tried searching custom bike frame makers in Canada but got very few hits.

I am hoping to get a frame made with some oval CroMo tubing and the design I want involves some curves which rules out a couple unicycle frame builders that I already know of.

Any suggestions? Rick Hunter comes to mind since he has done unicycles in the past but I would love to do this in Canada if possible.


edit: I am pretty new to the idea of custom frames. I am thinking $300-$400 for a nice unicycle frame with gentle curves not based on any design previously built. Am I out to lunch on how much this will cost me?


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Hi Eric -

I would email every Canadian builder you can think of and ask. It's not that much different (other than the bearing holders instead of dropouts) than building a fork, so there should be some people willing to take it on.

I think you should probably expect to pay more than $500 if you want bent oval tubing. That's probably going to be a bear to do. Depending on the design, it could be a *lot* more, it's just a question of how much work it ends up being.

Good luck!

-Walt



ericpulvermacher said:


> Hey guys, not sure if this is really the place to ask this but I bet you know a lot more of the frame builders than I do. I tried searching custom bike frame makers in Canada but got very few hits.
> 
> I am hoping to get a frame made with some oval CroMo tubing and the design I want involves some curves which rules out a couple unicycle frame builders that I already know of.
> 
> ...


----------



## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

Honestly, I'm not sure you could bend oval tubing without kinking it, could you Walt? That would definitely be tricky.


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*You can, but...*

I mean, you can bend oval chainstays, so there's no reason you can't bend larger (I'm assuming the OP is talking about some variety of 4130 oval or streamline) stuff. The flatter the oval, the harder it'll be, though. Luckily most of the oval tubing I know of is .049" or thicker - that'll help with kinking problems some.

I'm assuming, of course, that you're bending the small axis. Otherwise, sheesh, that long axis would be hard to do unless you were willing too distort the tube like crazy.

The problem here is that most people would probably have to make a dedicated mandrel/roller/etc to do a bend for larger oval tubes. I'm guessing most builders (myself included) aren't set up to make this without building some tooling, in other words, so it's going to be pricey.

Eric, is this going to be a unicrown-type thing (ie, blades are bent directly to the seat tube)? Or are we talking about something more complicated?

-Walt



Francis Buxton said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure you could bend oval tubing without kinking it, could you Walt? That would definitely be tricky.


----------



## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I guess I was thinking about tighter bends than most try to put on oval stays and/or the "long" axis bend, but you're right. It sounds like a fun project, but an expensive one.


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks, I was not aware that oval tubes would be harder to bend than round, but I guess that sort of makes sense. yah I would want it bent on the small axis. I could probably go with round but thought that oval would be better for clearance near the hub and to keep the width in check when bulging out for uber-wide tire clearance.

for the crown I was thinking something sort of like an A with the seat tube sort of going through a unicrown to a horizontal bar that connects to the legs. I have never seen anything like it but I think it would make a great stiff unicycle crown and look sharp too. Not sure how well I described it, I can take a picture of a sketch if that helps.

After sewing two 26" tires together in an experiment I started thinking about the possibility of a truly high volume 29 and there just isn't a frame out there that can fit a 29 of endomorphic proportions.


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Function or aesthetics?*

If you want a smooth curve for whatever reason, then yeah, you'll need to find someone who can do a fairly tight bend in oval tubing. If you just want the "A-frame" shape, you could just have the builder cut/butt weld the oval sections at an angle. It would be plenty strong with the crossbar in there (I'm assuming the seat tube would extend down to the crossbar, not just be welded to the oval sections). That would be much, much easier (and hence cheaper) to do.

Nobody is going to make a 700c x 3" tire anytime soon. Why do you want such a monster? You'd need _huge_ cranks to go anywhere on a wheel that big at offroad speeds. Not trying to offend, just curious. Knee clearance is going to suck with that much tire crammed in there.

-Walt



ericpulvermacher said:


> Thanks, I was not aware that oval tubes would be harder to bend than round, but I guess that sort of makes sense. yah I would want it bent on the small axis. I could probably go with round but thought that oval would be better for clearance near the hub and to keep the width in check when bulging out for uber-wide tire clearance.
> 
> for the crown I was thinking something sort of like an A with the seat tube sort of going through a unicrown to a horizontal bar that connects to the legs. I have never seen anything like it but I think it would make a great stiff unicycle crown and look sharp too. Not sure how well I described it, I can take a picture of a sketch if that helps.
> 
> After sewing two 26" tires together in an experiment I started thinking about the possibility of a truly high volume 29 and there just isn't a frame out there that can fit a 29 of endomorphic proportions.


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

I found an envelope, a piece of string and a pen, punched some numbers into excel and started drawing.

This is what I came up with










It didn't really turn out like I was expecting. The crown was much tighter than I was visualizing as was the curve of the legs but I really like its nice simple look. It was too tight for the A to really be feasible so now I am thinking some gussets would do nicely.

I was also thinking of a wider radius curve but I just drew what looked good to me then measured the string to my "scale/grid" and it measured to a radius of about 230mm or 9" Is that too tight to do easily?

My goal was to design it to work and look good with all those wheel sizes I may want to use in the frame. It might be a bit premature to really be talking about getting a frame built, I should probably build the 32" wheel and try out my idea for a crank-mounted disk brake (so I can use the same brake with various wheels) before getting too deep in this.



Walt said:


> If you want a smooth curve for whatever reason, then yeah, you'll need to find someone who can do a fairly tight bend in oval tubing. If you just want the "A-frame" shape, you could just have the builder cut/butt weld the oval sections at an angle. It would be plenty strong with the crossbar in there (I'm assuming the seat tube would extend down to the crossbar, not just be welded to the oval sections). That would be much, much easier (and hence cheaper) to do.
> 
> Nobody is going to make a 700c x 3" tire anytime soon. Why do you want such a monster? You'd need _huge_ cranks to go anywhere on a wheel that big at offroad speeds. Not trying to offend, just curious. Knee clearance is going to suck with that much tire crammed in there.
> 
> -Walt


Aesthetics is definitely part of it, If I am going to have a custom one of a kind frame built I would like to have a frame that I think is beautiful. The other reason for wanting the curve is to keep the frame as knee friendly as possible.

I mostly want the 29x3.5 for winter use on semi-packed and loose snow. I use a 26x3 and my last few rides I ended up walking quite a bit since I just did no have the float to stay on-top of the snow. I am also sort of a pedal masher and would like a bit of a higher gear which = bigger wheel in unicycle speech. I have a pair of 165mm cranks that I think would work great for this wheel as well. It would be about the same torque on a 29X3.5 as using 145mm cranks on a 26x3 which I find to be a nice length for not overly technical riding.

I was really looking for suggestions for possible builders when I started this thread but your comments and observations have been invaluable for me.


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*A few more thoughts*

First off, good luck finding a builder (I don't mean that as snark, I really hope you can find a local/Canadian person to do it for you). This is going to be a project that will cost you $1k+, I'm guessing, especially if you have very specific requirements about the look.

Second, I may be telling you things you already know (I'm a very poor offroad unicyclist, but I've built a decent number and have friends who are huge muni geeks), but:

-You're going to want more tire clearance, thicker blades/legs, or both, IMO, to avoid rubbing the tire all over the frame, especially when turning. I'm sure you've ridden 29" muni setups and buzzed the frame with the tire - the wheel starts flexing around a lot, no matter what. In this case, the frame is so tall that it's going to be a flex issue there as well, so I'd do minimum 1" short axis on the oval tubing to make it stiff enough to ride well.

-I don't think you'll get that much more float out of a 700x3 homemade tire than a standard 26" Endo. If anything, you might think about taking a page from the old-school Iditabike book and running double 700c rims/tires. This would of course require a pretty funky hub, but that's not actually too hard to do if you have access to some machine shop equipment and a beefy hub to modify.

-Curious, but why do you need a brake for flattish snow riding? If you want to go huck the gnar, go 26" or 24" and use a different frame. I mean, it sounds cool, but you only really need a brake for serious DH or trials, in my limited experience. This frame is going to sacrifice lots of things to get your massive tire clearance - it's never going to be a do-it-all kind of setup. Just IMO, as always.

Keep us updated. Seems like a neat project.

-Walt


----------



## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I'll assume that you have looked at the Surly Conundrum, but I'll throw it out there anyway. You said you're riding a 26x3, but the Endo is a 26x3.7, which I would think would give you your desired float.

Looking at the Endo frame, it's got arched oval tubing. Sounds to me that you either want the Conundrum or a 29" version of it.

http://surlybikes.com/frames/conundrum_frame/


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

walt: do you mean over $1000 just for the frame? or the entire unicycle?

You are probably right about the tire clearance. I have not ridden a 29 before but I have experienced tire rub offroading with a 36 which had quite a bit of tire clearance but skinny little double tubes for legs (what is now called the Nimbus Nightrider frame).

I have done a bit more research on frame building and tube bending and if this would really take $1000 to get built I might try my hand at it myself. I am usually pretty good at budget DIY. It probably wouldn't be as good as if a real pro did it really would be *my* frame. I will have to see if I can use the shop at the fire base I work at in the summers though.

I am going to build up a wheel and tire to see how I like 29x3 and see if I want to go wider or not (the whole point of the custom frame is to fit something wider than 29x3). I will be using a 50mm Uma rim from speedway and a KH 36" frame. I would be using the same technique I used here for building the 29x3. This is something I really should have done before getting all excited about a custom frame.

About the Conundrum, that is partially where I got the idea of oval tubing from to keep the overall width down. I suppose a modified conundrum frame with the legs extended a few inches would work but I do think they are sort of ugly and a skinnier taller wheel would look out of place in a frame like that. There I go with aesthetics again...

Thanks again guys, this thread has been a great reality check. Maybe I am just going bush crazy, heading down into civilization for a day tomorrow, that might also help :thumbsup:


----------



## zipzit (Aug 3, 2005)

ericpulvermacher said:


> ...I have done a bit more research on frame building and tube bending and if this would really take $1000 to get built I might try my hand at it myself. I am usually pretty good at budget DIY. It probably wouldn't be as good as if a real pro did it really would be *my* frame....


Warning, Danger, Danger Will Robinson...

That's a very steep, slippery slope. As others here have said (and I too didn't believe...) it will likely cost you more to build your own than it would to spend the $1000 on a custom. The little stuff adds up.. there's the tuition for the welding class at the local community college, those tools you always wished you had, more welding equipment, a place to work and a decent bench to work on, etc... the die grinders that were on sale at the local tool warehouse that you didn't really need, just wanted, that now require carbide bits, half round files in every size, a new set of insulated coveralls to work in the unheated garage.. this stuff just adds up. Heck, I just put an ebay bid in on a clamping ammeter, so I can better calibrate my arc welder.. that welding class I took woke up a sleeping giant. Not to mention that I also took the beginner machine shop class 101 that was offered the same day as the welding class. I find myself, perusing Ebay and Craigslist for a used lathe, bridgeport and TIG welder... this is addicting... don't really need 'em, just want 'em. YMMV....

Again, proceed cautiously...

-zip


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

zipzit said:


> Warning, Danger, Danger Will Robinson...
> 
> -zip


Yah I am in trouble aren't I? Probably won't tackle this until summer 2011.

I sewed up a tent for myself a few years ago and just the materials cost me more than a comparable tent. But I ended up with a tent that met all my criteria of what a tent should be, if it it was a tad heavy.

I still have a 18' Kevlar canoe to fix up (internal ribs all busted), The rear leafs on my truck to beef up, a better soft-shell jacket to sew up, and maybe a bridge hammock that I could work on in the mean time. If I did end up building the unicycle frame I think a cargo bike frame would be next so I could liberate my Hahana from the Xtracycle that has lived on it since 2007. I have a tendency to go a bit heavy on some of my projects, I think it is genetic/my moms fault 

Oh and I should probably finish the wheels first.


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Um, just for the frame.*

A complete Surly is almost $1000 with halfway decent parts. Having a custom frame (for which you have very specific look/aesthetics requirements, which is always a huge warning sign for a builder) will cost you a lot. I'd guess $1k, but it could be a bit less or quite a bit more, depending on the builder.

So build it yourself! And post here when you do!

-Walt



ericpulvermacher said:


> walt: do you mean over $1000 just for the frame? or the entire unicycle?


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

*Success*

Jogi from Triton Bikes contacted me about the wide 29" tires I was planning to make. He could get me a frame made and I could make him a tire. I made two tires and the one that turned out better went to Germany and he sent me out this custom made beauty.

No fancy curves, just his tweaked the design of his triple mount frame by raising the crown, adding a disk tab and loosing the Magura bosses for a 24" wheel.

All and all I am really happy with it.


----------



## Triton Bikes (Jan 6, 2010)

Hi Eric!

Congrats on a new unicycle 

If you ever get a photo of you on a Triton unicycle - please email it to me for collection 

Thanks,

Dmitry

Triton


----------



## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Dude! More pics of the tire please?!?! Th unicycle looks sweet, and props for following through on your 'crazy' idea.


----------



## TobysTurtles (Nov 1, 2005)

*My Muni*










My Homebuilt 24" Muni: 3" Tubeless Nokon tire on a double wide rim, Avid mechanical Disc Brake, Floating Hand Brake, internally routed cable, Extra Wide- Custom 36 spoke axle/hub with external BB bearings, 165 mm crank arms, reinforced seatmast.

(Sorry about the poor quality repost photo- I'm on my netbook. More photos on request)


----------



## TobysTurtles (Nov 1, 2005)

Happy Hunting-


----------



## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm very curious about the external BB...


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

Dmitry: once I get all three wheels (26, 29, 32) how I want them I will be glad to take some pics and send them to you. I ride alone so riding pics are pretty scarce. If you want any of the pics you see just e-mail/PM me and I will send you higher quality versions.

I am loving this frame so far

Sean: here you go
























I will post up more info on the thread I started a long time ago about sewing tires together in the fat forum.
The tire is 81mm (3.2") wide at the casing and 83mm at the widest point on the tread.

Toby:
That thing is awesome. Love the internal routing and disk brake. There is an outfit in the states that is making disk brakes for unicycles now so I am just going to use one of their rotors. I really think that disk is the way to go.

How do you like that free-floating break? I tried that and felt like the seat wanted to shoot out from between my legs when braking and would end up grabbing the seat handle with my other hand. I ended up just mounting the brake lever under the saddle like everyone else.

Also curious to hear what you all did with your hub. It looks great.

Jerry: just incase you were talking to me and you were serious I took a pic of the bearing holder for you.








The frame just clamp onto the wheel bearings. Pretty standard.

I got the 32" wheel done and am fairly happy with it. It looks down right anaemic compared to the big fat 29
















Oh and for S&G my Carbon Fibre seat base with the handle I pieced together from all sorts of odds and ends


----------



## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

TobysTurtles said:


> My Homebuilt 24" Muni: 3" Tubeless Nokon tire on a double wide rim, Avid mechanical Disc Brake, Floating Hand Brake, internally routed cable, Extra Wide- Custom 36 spoke axle/hub with external BB bearings, 165 mm crank arms, reinforced seatmast.


----------



## TobysTurtles (Nov 1, 2005)

My redesigned design centers around the need for a wider tire (Ideally 3", on a double wide rim) and frame that would safely accommodate while providing Oregon mud clearance. I also wanted a wider pedal based (Wider is FANTASTIC, adding stability, comfort and less knee stress for climbs) and needed space for a disc rotor. I enjoy the simplicity and engineering or external BBs, using them for pivots on DH bikes- and had wanted to try them as main Uni bearings. Split clamps have inherent weakness not desirable in wet mountain environments. The hub itself consists 2 x 36 spoked flanges, a center spacer, a disc rotor flange and a split ISIS BB Axle. Other than the axle, and BB cup shell, Disc brake and rim/tire, everything else is handmade from 4130 aircraft tubing leftovers (Gotta do something with scraps right?). As for dropping the tire- the left leg is split and double sleeved, with reinforcing. Removing the tire requires removing the cranks, BB cups, and dropping the left leg out. It is a pain, but the alignment is always dead on, providing ultra smooth rotation. For this reason, I made homemade slime and rely on a completely tubeless tire that will self-seal if punctured. You don't appreciate the benefits of a tubeless system until you've run a tubeless 3" muni over freeride ladders. Rounding out the system is a custom seat mast (Think newer road bikes- except much stronger) that eliminates stress areas that cleans up and strengthens the yoke junction. And lastly, the floating hand brake, which I find is superior to the seat brake system, but takes getting used to. I can quickly disconnect the floating lever if needed but haven't actually found a need to. I did design a wireless floating brake that fits nicely into the leg, eliminating the cable and housing (remembering to clear the cable during crashes is important), but Rain + Wireless Model Airplane Controllers = Low reliability. The Avid 5 caliper proved too effective, but dunking the pads in mineral oil helped (not something you hear everyday), and I can scream down the steepest trails in full control. 

Thats about it- except I am planning a single sided unicycle that will probably make this one seem normal. As a full time teacher I haven't had much time lately to play or weld. Maybe by July?

Oh- altered old 165mm cranks provide massive climbing potential that get to speed quickly. And I've long since replaced that cheap Torker seat with something respectable. I really should upload newer photos.


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

Wow, that is awesome! Good work on the hub, I figured you modified a front disk hub to fit on the ISIS axel.

A wireless remote brake is a pretty cool idea.

If you ever make that one sided unicycle get on over to the unicyclist forums and post some pics. Heck the one you have right now would generate some conversation.

Thanks for sharing

ERIC


----------



## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

*Surly*

Can't you buy one from Surly?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

How about Russia?
http://tritonbikes.com/


----------



## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How about Russia?
> http://tritonbikes.com/


In Soviet Russia, unicycle rides you

Yah I got one hence the post up there ^^^ I am really happy with the frame that they made fore me. I was a bit concerned about hitting my knees on the crown but it hasn't been an issue

We also discussed the Surly Conundrum...


----------

