# Ibis Avion?



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Im not quite sure what this one is. I think its been repainted. I dont think its a Mojo. It doesnt have the hand job. Tight wheelbase, Type II fork, very light gauge tubing. Any Ibis fanatics know what this thing is? I think its an 87 or 88 based on the parts.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*can you show some details?*



Fillet-brazed said:


> Im not quite sure what this one is. I think its been repainted. I dont think its a Mojo. It doesnt have the hand job. Tight wheelbase, Type II fork, very light gauge tubing. Any Ibis fanatics know what this thing is? I think its an 87 or 88 based on the parts.


drop outs? the ibis logo is new, as is the head badge( i may be wrong, i'm not very schooled on ibis)... the seat collar could belong to an early mojo. it looks so pretty...


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

colker1 said:


> drop outs? the ibis logo is new, as is the head badge( i may be wrong, i'm not very schooled on ibis)... the seat collar could belong to an early mojo. it looks so pretty...


...looks like an old ibis custom (type2 fork, stem, headbadge (in sterling silver? - very rare and expensive))...nice bike.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Avion was made in Japan*

The Avion models were made for Ibis in Japan. We sold a bunch back in the late '80s / very early '90s. Very nice bikes. But after a year or two of dealing with asian sourcing, Scot pulled back all frames to the US. The SS model (ss stood for setting sun - so yeah, Ibis was one of the first to make a ss) was the model that followed the Avion - there was an Avion SS model briefly after the Avion and then it was just shortened to SS. I'm pretty sure the Avion models had that seat lug. SS models had no lugs and were tig welded with the welds smoothed. The Mojo followed the SS and were the first models to regularly have the hand-job. Here's a pic of mine below.

That decal looks newer than 87/88. The '80s Ibis frames had a simple script "ibis" on the d/t. Similar to the d/t decal on mine, but without any background. Your decal looks like an early Mojo decal set on an older frame. The Avions also did not have a metal head badge - just a decal. I don't think the metal head badges showed up until the Mojo era.

And one more thing. It has a straight t/t. My SS has a sloping t/t and it's from '91. Avions and prior were straight t/t. I think all Mojos had a sloping t/t too.

That does look like a Type II fork. Potts, Cunningham, and Ibis would make a Type II fork for the right dough - they were at least $200 retail.

If you really need to know more about that frame, post some better detail shots and I'll ask Scot to take a look.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Oops, ya youre right. The Avion is the imported model. This one is made in Sebastopol, (according to Scot, I talked to him a long time ago about this one but didnt want to bug him more on it, he even dug up the original buyer for it back then but couldnt give me a year as his records didnt have that info) and actually has the little Sebastopol decal on the left stay. But it has been repainted thats why I was wondering what it was called. So what was the US made bike called back then? The tubing is quite thin, its got a short 41" wheelbase, and the stem clamps on kinda threadless style. Thanks for the info.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*I think they were just called customs*

I actually just got an e-mail back from Scot. Custom is what he referred to it as. Does it have machined reinforcement rings on the head tube - it looks like there are? What's the serial number?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> I actually just got an e-mail back from Scot. Custom is what he referred to it as. Does it have machined reinforcement rings on the head tube - it looks like there are? What's the serial number?


Yes, it has the headtube rings. I think its #575 if memory serves.......


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Custom*

with that s/n and the rings, it's definitely a custom with newer decals. Custom was simply the model name.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> with that s/n and the rings, it's definitely a custom with newer decals. Custom was simply the model name.


So is the headtube badge an update or was that original back then? Do you know?

Also, what do they call that style of stem attachment. Kinda interesting. Pretty sure the LD stem attached this way too right?


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> So is the headtube badge an update or was that original back then? Do you know?
> 
> Also, what do they call that style of stem attachment. Kinda interesting. Pretty sure the LD stem attached this way too right?


The flat stems were just "Ibis Stems". The LD was the only one with a name and reflective of their sense of humour. It looks like your stem attaches to a plug that is brazed into the steerer tube - very clean and light option to a typical quill stem of the day. My LD is the same type.

There was much less emphasis on names of frames and parts back then. Back in the '80s an Ibis frame was an Ibis frame and they were all pretty much made to order. A stem was a stem...

I think all the decals and h/t badge are updates. They were just decals way back when the frame was made. I don't remember seeing h/t badges until Mojos came out. I certainly would have opted for a badge on mine in '91. Mine is a simple decal.

Here's a message from Scot - "My records show that as being originally sold to S A. It's a bit of an oddity as it's shown as a 17.5, we normally did 16, 18 and 19. Probably built in 88."


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

...ibis custom with ld stem.....


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Sweeet!!!*



huelse said:


> ...ibis custom with ld stem.....


Very nice! Is that a Sante rear derailleur?


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Very nice! Is that a Sante rear derailleur?


This is an old shimano deore xt derailleur with old ultegra cage. frame no. is 522 and it has the sterling silver headbadge (must be original item from late 80s, the frame was not upgraded or repaited....)...


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

lower pic is from firstflight's avion with a similar lug...


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

...and the thing that happend to some l.d.stems...


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Oh yeah*



huelse said:


> This is an old shimano deore xt derailleur with old ultegra cage. frame no. is 522 and it has the sterling silver headbadge (must be original item from late 80s, the frame was not upgraded or repaited....)...


I had that same Ultegra derailleur on my Ibis for a while - and before that a 600EX. The Sante was like a pearl white finish anyway now that I recall.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

ssmike said:


> I had that same Ultegra derailleur on my Ibis for a while - and before that a 600EX. The Sante was like a pearl white finish anyway now that I recall.


...this one? i've never seen in reality...i hope to get some pictures of my own ibis frame no. 757 next time, maybe you can help me dating it...


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Yep, that one*



huelse said:


> ...this one? i've never seen in reality...i hope to get some pictures of my own ibis frame no. 757 next time, maybe you can help me dating it...


The entire Sante group was really beautiful. Very artsy. Fillet brazed's frame is 575 and that was made in '88. If you have 757 - that's pretty good, we've got 575 and 757, what are the odds of that - and they made several hundred a year, your's was probably made in 89/90. I can find out for sure.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

huelse said:


> ...this one? i've never seen in reality...i hope to get some pictures of my own ibis frame no. 757 next time, maybe you can help me dating it...


huelse - 757 was originally an SS model (made in 89) sold to Kogler - the German distributor at the time. The poop from Scot is that the Japanese Avion was stopped in 88 (after only being made for a year) and was followed by the SS model.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

ssmike said:


> huelse - 757 was originally an SS model (made in 89) sold to Kogler - the German distributor at the time. The poop from Scot is that the Japanese Avion was stopped in 88 (after only being made for a year) and was followed by the SS model.


Thanks a lot, I hope I can post some pictures this week.
And at the end of this month i will change the frame for a bigger size frame of the same model in the same color (after 4 years of hunting i got the original stem (painted to match salsa, a bit lower than my old one, so I need a longer steering tube and a friend want's to change his frame for a smaller one ), frame no. was similar. These frames have no model name stickers, they're just black with a very fine all-neon-splatter on it. It only shows the normal ibis and headtube stickers, and on the left chainstay a fat white 'made in usa' sticker. So, we were never sure what models they were. 
Thanks again.
Falk


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

anytime. model names were not very prevalent back then. bikes were bikes. frames were frames and stems were stems.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

...did some pictures this week....ss no.757....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

huelse said:


> ...did some pictures this week....ss no.757....


Very cool. I like the interesting build. Looks like a fun bike. Cant see the dropouts, is that a Koski fork?


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

very sweet-looking bike, there. i myself am a fan of the black and silver look.
and what was the santé group? who made it?
tim


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

uphiller said:


> very sweet-looking bike, there. i myself am a fan of the black and silver look.
> and what was the santé group? who made it?
> tim


Sante was an artsy group Shimano made probably around 88 or so. Pearl white, and smooth lines. I think it was about the same quality level of Ultegra but with a more expensive finish. It was priced in between ULtegra and Dura Ace if I remember correctly.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Very cool. I like the interesting build. Looks like a fun bike. Cant see the dropouts, is that a Koski fork?


...yes, fork is a koski model with 3d-like dropouts, not every skewer works...sorry, no pictures from that end...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*just wanted to post mine*

here she is:


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## J-7 (Apr 5, 2004)

For colker1.

I just bought the exact same frame as in your picture. It is missing the seat tube "Moron Tubing" decal. Could you post or e-mail me a close-up shot of it so I know what it looks like. I want to try and track one down.

Also, where and what year was that frame made? Where is the serial number stamped?

Thanks for the help. I'm thrilled with my purchase and I really want to learn a little more about it.

Rod


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## OregonMTB (Sep 1, 2004)

*And here is SS 1263*

Time to resurect an old thread.

Here is my SS #1263--the black one

And the blue frame is the older of my two mojos. It is number 4099 and is currently being built up into a retro-ugly bike. I will post pics when I am finished.


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## patpend2000 (May 11, 2004)

Here's my MOJO, currently in SS form with a WI ENO and a halson Inversion fork with speedsprings


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

patpend2000 said:


> Here's my MOJO, currently in SS form with a WI ENO and a halson Inversion fork with speedsprings


is that an Ibis bar? Man I have always lusted after one of those.

Will Horton


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> is that an Ibis bar? Man I have always lusted after one of those.
> 
> Will Horton


Will, that appears to be a 
Jones H-Bar

The only other "Ibis bar" I've seen is a drop bar. Is there another?


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## lml1x (Jan 13, 2004)

*an excuse*

just looking for an excuse to show off my ibis


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