# Is grease Ok to use on titanium bolts?



## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

I want to fit ti bolts on my bikes. I’ve bought a ti bolt kit that gives me all the bolt sizes I need.

I plan on using regular park tool grease on all the bolts, including rotor bolts and calliper bolts.

I’ve done a lot of reading and opinion seems divided on the use of grease, Loctite or ti-prep anti-seize compound.

Is grease OK to use for the brake rotor and calliper bolts or should I continue to use blue loctite in these locations with ti bolts?


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I see no reason not to use an application of grease on a Ti bolt or screw wherever necessary as long as it is torqued to appropriate spec like any other fitting on a bike should be. Critical fasteners on brake systems like rotors should receive a threadlock compound and be torqued appropriately. Ti is lightweight but doesn't have any mystical locking powers. I would proceed as if it were any other material. A dab of grease or lock compound assures it's holding and then coming back out when you need it to without or limiting any corrosive action brought on by indifferent metals or reactions.

I'm curious what arguments you have seen in favor of NOT using a grease, loctite, whatever?


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## Reconnaissanceman (Oct 4, 2018)

Grease and loctite have opposing uses you know—loctite is to make sure you can’t get the bike apart and grease makes sure you can. 

Seriously though, and assuming this is on an aluminum frame, a thin film of grease is fine almost everywhere as long as the fastener has tension on it, loctite isn’t needed. Set screws that don’t have tension should have blue loctite. If you want something permanently fastened use red loctite. Excessive torque is also possible with grease vs dry bolt, so be careful. 

Titanium fasteners are a good choice for aluminum frames because they defeat dissimilar metal corrosion.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Reconnaissanceman said:


> ...loctite is to make sure you can't get the bike apart ...


Not usually. Loctite thread locker and retaining compounds are most often used to help ensure things don't come apart on their own while still allowing disassembly or service. Different types are available so that level of retention, different fastener sizes and different applications can be accommodated. Loctite also manufactures anti seize.

Ti fasteners can gall so specific anti-seize is usually recommended. Grease is way better than nothing.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Ti prep (copper anti-seize) would be my vote, but last time I messed with Ti bolts was before Y2K. Sold all over...something like this:

https://www.jbtoolsales.com/loctite-37533-copper-anti-seize-lubricant-tube-1-oz/


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## X83 (May 14, 2018)

If you're a weight weenie grease is just extra mass that’s not required on a bicycle.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Oh My Sack! said:


> I'm curious what arguments you have seen in favor of NOT using a grease, loctite, whatever?


I would guess the argument is not in favor of fitting it dry, but using anti-seize. There's basically no valid reason to ever dry fit a bolt. I've seen Ti bolts gall, that bond being way stronger than a t-25 head. 
Grease is better than nothing, but unless you're willing to remove your rotors regularly and re-apply, anti-seize is better.


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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks everyone.
So grease is OK, as is ant-seize.

Specifically, is loctite (blue) also ok and provide the necessary anti-galling?


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

db3266 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> So grease is OK, as is ant-seize.
> 
> Specifically, is loctite (blue) also ok and provide the necessary anti-galling?
> ...


Grease is not ok. You need to use a copper based anti-seize for titanium threads. Especially if you're threading it into aluminum where it loves to swap molecules and will basically weld itself in there. Thread retainer doesn't provide the same level of anti-corrosion properties and it's going to be on the same level as grease. If you're going to run ti bolts just do a bolt check once every couple weeks to make sure they're still torqued.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I would not compromise the strength of the fasteners holding my brake rotors to the hub regardless of what kind of magic pixie dust was installed on the threads.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> I would not compromise the strength of the fasteners holding my brake rotors to the hub regardless of what kind of magic pixie dust was installed on the threads.


You may be thinking of Aluminum bolts. Ti are fine for most things on a bike (as long as they don't weld themselves to something).

FAQLoad - Bolt Tuning - replacing heavy steel bolts with titanium, aluminum and carbon fiber


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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

twodownzero said:


> I would not compromise the strength of the fasteners holding my brake rotors to the hub regardless of what kind of magic pixie dust was installed on the threads.


Meaning you wouldn't use Ti rotor bolts?

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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

twodownzero said:


> I would not compromise the strength of the fasteners holding my brake rotors to the hub regardless of what kind of magic pixie dust was installed on the threads.


Ti is fine for this application.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I cracked the heads on titanium rotor bolts without much effort. They really didn't seem very strong to me at all. Maybe just bad bolts but for the sake of a few grams I'd rather stick with something I know I can trust.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> I cracked the heads on titanium rotor bolts without much effort. They really didn't seem very strong to me at all. Maybe just bad bolts but for the sake of a few grams I'd rather stick with something I know I can trust.


Not all titanium bolts are created equal. On one hand there's the cnc cut bolts that look the part and are light but they break and strip pretty easily. On the other end there's the forged bolts with rolled threads that are very reliable.


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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

I’m buying mine from Ti-Springs so I expect them to be amongst the best out there .


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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

customfab said:


> Grease is not ok. You need to use a copper based anti-seize for titanium threads. Especially if you're threading it into aluminum where it loves to swap molecules and will basically weld itself in there. Thread retainer doesn't provide the same level of anti-corrosion properties and it's going to be on the same level as grease. If you're going to run ti bolts just do a bolt check once every couple weeks to make sure they're still torqued.


Thanks. I very regularly check over the bikes 

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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

In response to all your answers, I’m going to buy the Park Tool anti-seize and use it on all bolts and not use thread lock on anything. I’m not using Ti for the pivot or shock bolts at the moment.


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## Reconnaissanceman (Oct 4, 2018)

customfab said:


> Grease is not ok. You need to use a copper based anti-seize for titanium threads. Especially if you're threading it into aluminum where it loves to swap molecules and will basically weld itself in there. Thread retainer doesn't provide the same level of anti-corrosion properties and it's going to be on the same level as grease. If you're going to run ti bolts just do a bolt check once every couple weeks to make sure they're still torqued.


Since the OP has made his decision the rest of the discussion is academic, but it's a great topic to consider with much riding on our choices of fasteners. Dissimilar metal corrosion, galvanic corrosion and bimetallic corrosion are different terms for the same effect, and are more likely in salty environments, less likely in others (urban, mechanized, aviation, etc.). Titanium and aluminum are quite compatible and have low potential for corrosion when in contact with each other. By comparison titanium and carbon have high potential for corrosion, whether or not the threads are coated.

Source: http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/bimetallic_20071105114556.pdf , page 7.

Copper and moly based compounds are not necessarily good choices to combat dissimilar metal corrosion.

Cheers,


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

All six titanium bolts on my front rotor eventually worked themselves loose. I didn't notice until the loose rotor started rubbing. These bolts were coated in anti-seize and torqued to spec. I would suggest thread-locker over anti-seize and checking the torque every few months. If corrosion has occurred, you'll find it long before it becomes a problem.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Customfab is right about using specific antisieze on Ti, especially going into aluminum. 

I'm not light enough to warrant being a weight weenie so I just run steel Shimano rotor bolts with the factory blue loctite that comes on them. Never had one back out ever. 

More years ago than I care to count, I spent a couple of seasons building performance marine engines. Every bolt on those engines received blue Loctite AND safety wire. They took forever to build. One thing I always noticed though was when they came apart, the Loctite sealed out the elements and the threads looked like brand new. This was steel bolts on cast iron and aluminum.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

LOCTITE 2432 - Threadlocker - Loctite

http://www.wdarc.org/Loctite Guide.pdf

Both pretty interesting.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Loctite calls for their metal free, black formula anti-seize for titanium.

https://www.all-spec.com/loctite-anti-seize

I've always used copper (without issue) but will probably switch on the upcoming build.


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