# Feel the BMX heat



## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

*Feel the BMX*

1981 Mongoose Kos Kruiser 26" nickel plated loop tail frame, wonder how this would go down repack did you guys see any of these? The decals are crazy reflective colours reminds of 1981 disco


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

That's cool. I'd ride it. 👍🏻


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## M-Train (Jan 12, 2008)

Sweet. That's from my youth. I wanted a Mongoose, DG, Redline or PK Ripper, but my parents wouldn't spend that kind of money on a bike.


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## bentforks (Feb 23, 2017)

What's up with the canti's, did you add them?


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

not sure at this point I took this bike completely apart and and gave it my usual bubble bath and didn't have to do much. The Mongoose museum people say there was never any 26" Kos's made with canti's. Dunno this bike in my non expert opinion I would say it is from the factory. Which begs my question why didn't cantilever brakes get to be an option on BMX/cruisers arn't they way better than the side pulls?


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## MrPatrick (Feb 3, 2017)

Seriously collectible bike right there. Look for it in BMX Museum web site.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Are you sure it's an '81?

They did a reissue in 2012 which was nickel plated and original style decals and all that, but with canti posts.

Sorry, not trying to be an ass about anything, just trying to work out why it has factory cantis. No idea why BMX had side pull brakes when cantis would have been a better option. Maybe because BMXers didn't need to stop. Gees, we tried everything. Cola on the rim, sandpaper the rim, road bike brake pads.

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Dear Grumpy, wow ya I think I opened a can o worms with this bike. The BMX museum front man won't mention name is upset at me asking if this bike is orig and what is its worth. Hell we have a special thread "whats it worth" Regardless I would never have given this bike a second look other than I am obsessed with very early mtb stuff, the beginning and how mtb evolved and the bmx cruiser is certainly a part in the beginning. BMX predates mtb {except for the Woodsie of course} and I respect that but BMXers seem bent on having there own cult club. I volunteered for many years in the 80's developing mtb racing and rules here in BC. We organized an association to include road/mtb/randonneurs do you think we could get BMX involved no way. They seem to want everything underground. No stores everything bought and sold thru swap meets.ads internet. Really the only crossover from BMX to MTB is the 26" cruiser class and that was dismissed as an old man's bike. And most of those had the shitty caliper brakes. So the fact that this bike had cantis and was a 26" bmx I was all over it. As you know I have restored many early Ritchey's after a while you get to know what is orig and what isn't this definitely 1981. The tires/pedals/cranks/m700 deerhead brakes/6mil brake cables that fit the slotted hangers/araya 7x rims and the ser# T1A = CoMo built in USA Jan 1981


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## MrPatrick (Feb 3, 2017)

The 2012 re-issue had V brakes as standard equipment.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

yes the reissue had different matt decals/fork drops/parts


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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

That is one rad bike! I wish I still had my Supergoose, I think it was a mid-late 80s and dad bought it for me from his coworker as my first "real" BMX bike. 

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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

The rear hanger looks kinda like the Ibis hand mount, The chain is aftermarket and I added the chair the rest as I got


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

more


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Love it!

Was wondering about the canti posts as well...never saw an og 'goose with them, but your frame certainly looks like it's possible.



It would look cool next to my old unknown BMX/MTB if you get bored with it...





Steve


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

rismtb said:


> I respect that but BMXers seem bent on having there own cult club. .....you get to know what is orig and what isn't this definitely 1981. The tires/pedals/cranks/m700 deerhead brakes/6mil brake cables that fit the slotted hangers/araya 7x rims and the ser# T1A = CoMo built in USA Jan 1981


Excellent! Not too fussed about the decals and components on it, I've seen guys put old school stuff on reissue frames, but the serial number is the money. If the serial number checks out then that's good news. Awesome news in fact!

Great news in fact. Strange thing to have cantis on a BMX, especially from the factory. Who knows, one of the crew may have built it for himself, wanting better brakes to ride trails. The back story on this one would be cool.

Yep, BMX is it's own thing. I raced in the early-mid 80s and for a while, I collected and restored vintage BMX. I still enjoy BMX but my love of BMX really falls to the great bikes of the late 70s early 80s, like Mongoose, Redline, Diamond Back.... SE Racing, Patterson, Skyway... etc.

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks Grumps good to have a vtg mtb past BMX rider/collector's opinion on this. The BMX museum people are taking a hard look at 30 detailed pictures of the bikes welds to figure this out. They sent me pictures of the factory in California back in the day man they built a lot of frames almost half a million by 1981


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Gee, they looked after them really well in production, ha!

One thing that I didn't pick up on before was the cable stop for the rear brake. The 2012 reissue had v-brakes, so while it had canti posts, it didn't have the cable stop like yours. It would be a lot of work to take a reissue, braze on the cable hanger, remove the cable stops from the top tube, then replate it.

Again, the back story on this would be really interesting.

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

The last info I got from the museum is that if the canti's came from the factory the hanger would look like the following picture my Salsa has a similar scaled down version. The more I spend time with this bike the more I feel it's the homosapien link between cruisers and mtb's I know the timing doesn't good it's getting mighty close to april first.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

rismtb,

I play vintage BMX a bit....your frame has definitely peaked my interest.

That serial number makes me smile...gotta be legit.

Tomac started out racing MTBs on a converted 24" Mongoose.
I have the pic somewhere...always wanted to build a replica of it, but nice 24 frames are pricey




Steve


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I grew up on 20" Freestyle BMX in the late 80s, those geese were before my time, but I still liked everything BMX.

I'm subscribing to see what you find out about it. I was looking at the 2012 repops with the brake posts thinking someone could have added the cable guide for the cantis.

But the repop frame geometry is different, the seat tube is way more laid back on the OG KOS!


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

the museum states that the Mongoose factory "not sure on exact figures of just kos's, but factory was doing 10,000 frames per month (20+ welders and 3 shifts. from memory)
* the big pile of frames is 60 days of production"

The pictures the museum sent are from the archive of that time. Thats a lot of welding booths and a lot of production. One of those welders behind one of those curtains was a mtber with a bright idea.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

late last night I received confirmation that the bike is legit maybe this belongs in the Fairfax museum because its more of mtb than bmx


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

Very cool!


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

rismtb said:


> late last night I received confirmation that the bike is legit maybe this belongs in the Fairfax museum because its more of mtb than bmx


Awesome!

I'm having a hard time holding back posting that picture of Indiana Jones saying "That belongs in a museum!"


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Who confirmed it?


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Warren at the BMX museum he is the curator
* Yep its Jan 1981 frame
* all the decals look like my reproduction ones as the colors are slight variance to NOS ones (if there is one its usually all of them, also wrong placement tells me all are done)
* pretty much all parts on this bike are not factory spec parts (frame, forks, rims maybe tires are parts that would come on a genuine kos)
* not sure on exact figures of just kos's, but factory was doing 10,000 frames per month (20+ welders and 3 shifts. from memory)
* the big pile of frames is 60 days of production
* looks like nickel but ive seen **** tarnished chrome look like that. (take cranks out and look inside bottom bracket shell

cheers
waza


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks
again Warren it would be great to get more history on this
bike after reading the history on the factory I read this
line "Hoppy could inspect a frame and determine which
welder made it. It was like a handwriting analysis,
amazing" Is hoppy still around? could he identify the
welds and who did them? Also with such an organized factory
is there any record on ser # to models? You mentioned its
hard to tell how many 26" cruisers were produced in
81

Hoppy passed
yeas ago.Nope no recordsCompany sold
in 86


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

The pedigree of Mongoose is huge to fully understand a must watch is > HISTORY OF MONGOOSE: Know Your Roots < on UTube it's got Tinker and Johnny T in it. I have a newfound respect for BMX. I guess it crosses over in racing with mtb short track becoming popular and an Olympic event


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Another good one is Joe Kid on a Stingray.

Great doco, goes through the early days of kids setting up their dragsters and Schwinn Stingrays to race on local tracks, the early purpose built BMXes in the early to mid 70s, the explosion in the late 70s and early 80s, the start of freestyle and trick riding, the decline and the resurgence.

Cool stuff is the people involved with early BMX magazines and how many of them were involved in early days of Mountain Bike Action magazine. Also, the people who crossed over from making BMX stuff to making MTB stuff.

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

ya thanks that one is even a bit earlier, Scott seemed like the ultimate promoter to do do that tour thing, what a trip that must have been for everybody. I like the quote "we thought we were motorcycle riders on bicycles"


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

My first 'real" BMX was an 81 Supergoose. I was the king of the neighborhood with that bike...everyone else on Schwinn's or Huffy Thunder Roads. Some others had Hutc hand Redlines. I remember when the KOS Kruiser came out we all thought it was a BMX for old people. Supergoose got stolen, and I then replaced it with an 88 Californian Pro. I still have and ride that bike, but reeeaaalllyyyy wish I had the Supergoose.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

I can't imagine the offer's you've received.


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## rev106 (Jul 9, 2009)

wasn't the early Yeti's based of the Kos?


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

nope no offers although this is the only place I have posted the bike. The BMX museum is rebuilding their web site so I thought I would wait until then to post pictures to that crowd I think some including myself are a little stunned.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> Another good one is Joe Kid on a Stingray.
> 
> Great doco, goes through the early days of kids setting up their dragsters and Schwinn Stingrays to race on local tracks, the early purpose built BMXes in the early to mid 70s, the explosion in the late 70s and early 80s, the start of freestyle and trick riding, the decline and the resurgence.
> 
> ...


Also how many riders with BMX roots ended up on top of the heap when it comes to MTB competition, as well being major drivers in the sport's progression and diversification. Seems to me that the majority MTB icons have a strong BMX background.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I have always thought that MTB came out of BMX...even though I know that the true evolution were some roadie types taking their bikes off road. But for my whole area, any one who rode MTB in their adult life started on the BMX dirt trails and tracks...


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

I think the older set that were 20+ yrs old in the late 70's and early 80's when mtb was available didn't bmx they were kids bikes. The repack crowd were ballon tire hippies that wanted to go out there and be free on something that didn't break down. Over the years the BMX influence on mtb kinda took over. Remember finger bikes? WTF I thought little kids collecting these redick little things doing tricks with their hands. A couple of years later those same little nippers were doing the same tricks on the emergence slope style. Now the fastest growing thing for mtb is bike parks ramps jumps big air big hair hell maybe we are motorcycle riders on bicycles


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

rismtb said:


> I think the older set that were 20+ yrs old in the late 70's and early 80's when mtb was available didn't bmx they were kids bikes. The repack crowd were ballon tire hippies that wanted to go out there and be free on something that didn't break down. Over the years the BMX influence on mtb kinda took over. Remember finger bikes? WTF I thought little kids collecting these redick little things doing tricks with their hands. A couple of years later those same little nippers were doing the same tricks on the emergence slope style. Now the fastest growing thing for mtb is bike parks ramps jumps big air big hair hell maybe we are motorcycle riders on bicycles


I totally remember finger bikes...and still have mine somewhere in a box at home.

And your scenario is probably true for west coasters for sure. Here in Ohio in the 80's I only ever remember seeing "old people bikes" - i.e. Schwinn cruisers, and "kids bikes" - BMX. I don't remember seeing MTB's in stores around here till the late 80's. WE had to even special order most "upper level" BMX bikes, so things like the KOS Kruiser were never a reality around here.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

A little different in Australia. We had BMX in a huge way. Had all the big brands imported here in volume, like Mongoose, Diamond Back, Redline, and of course brands like SE Racing, Patterson, Haro. Cruisers were big as well. But we didn't really get the MTB thing happening until the late 80s.

As kids, we'd ride our BMXes around local tracks, but no back country rides. MTB hit here at a time when I was growing out of BMX and into road riding and then along came MTB, I could ride a bike off road again! Woohoo!

So for those that were a bit older than me, cruisers were a good compromise. Some added derailleurs and after a few years, we MTBs that were more hybrids with knobby tyres. Eventually some local brands starting doing MTBs at the same time that US brands were being imported, but they were pricey.

Now, MTB is a huge sport here. Also BMX clubs are thriving with kids aged 5 up to guys in the 50s riding. I still love BMX and I dig that it has such a wide appeal, as does MTB.

Grumps


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## Cycle&Surf (Sep 8, 2016)

there are quite a few KOS Kruisers converted for MTB use out there. The most famous rider for the MTB crowd is probably Frank The Welder who ran Kamikaze with his Sturmey Archer drum brake equipped KOS, shown here:








here is one with Cantis








pretty sure that the KOS of the op is later converted and either re-chromed or nickeled afterwards.
A closer look at the canti bosses may help to verify...
i personally don't think that Mongoose were doing them in the factory like this, especially these things were selling quite good at that time and i doubt the guys would have taken the time to build specials/prototypes like this.
And not to forget MTB was still quite small back in 1981...
the drilled holes in the rear dropouts were probably done to mount a rear rack or similar equipment which was a must-have at that time 

btw Tinker Juarez was also racing a KOS Kruiser in the BMX cruiser class bitd :thumbsup:


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## Cycle&Surf (Sep 8, 2016)

just re-read and the op says nickel plated so it's even more clear that this isn't the factory finish as they only came in chrome in the early days.
my '81 KOS is still wearing it's factory chrome on the frame 

btw how wide is the rear on the Canti Kos above? Normally they were spread to 120/126mm from the stock 110mm BMX width.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

The rear drops are 120mm interesting that there are 2 holes on each plate on the rear and one on each side of the the fork drop plates in a place it would be hard to mount a rack/fender. Mongoose museum curator chap {Warren} mentioned that nickel was an option for the KOS. How hard is it to take chrome or nickel plating off I have no idea.


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## Cycle&Surf (Sep 8, 2016)

your frame is made in January 1981, that's for sure but nobody exactly know when these came available as a complete bike because in the beginning there was only a frame and fork set offered.
The 1981 catalog may say "Available with brilliant chrome plating, durable chip resistant nickle or a selection of beautiful yet tough epoxy finishes" and show a chrome Moosegoose and a chrome KOS F/F set below but also the next sentence is "Certain models limited to certain finishes".
So i wouldn't say that the KOS was available in nickle and i've not seen any proof (catalogs/advertising/magazine tests) that it was actually. I've seen some wearing what appeared to be their og candy blue and red paint, though

i think bitd it wasn't really complicated or expensive to get a frame redone in either chrome or nickle.
And it was quite common to get a 26" BMX frame equipped with cable hanger, canti bosses and all the bells and whistles you needed to go for multigear-offroad adventures or just to be cool/different bitd


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Thank you for your input. I am no BMX expert but would love to know roughly how many 26" Kos Kruisers were made? in what years and aprox value of this bike and does the added brakes and bosses decrease the value? thanks in advance


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## Cycle&Surf (Sep 8, 2016)

i guess nobody knows how many they made but they only made them from 1980 until 1982 and from my understanding at some point in 1982 the name changed into Two-Six because Jeff Kosmala left Mongoose.
i think the 120mm rear, the canti bosses, the drilled holes and the cable stops are actually decreasing the value but you can still give it a try in the museum. 
maybe worth finding out what bars you got there because this could be big money for some people. Also both headsets would be worth quite a lot but unfortunately you got the upper part from the one and the lower part of the other...
i can help you with the roundabout value of some stuff but you can also look at ebay for completed auctions/sold items.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

I am not really interested in splitting up, it looks to me like the bike was someone's
battle axe and put away with care possibly over 30yrs ago judging by the condition of rubber and build parts. I am not a single speed guy but I do like the geometry. Thanks for passing on what you know about numbers.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

*Mystery solved*

I would like thank all persons giving info on this Kos Kruiser. Toby who is part of Vancouver mtb history was around from the very beginning. A talented rider from the west side {westpoint cycles} part of of the small group from that shop who went on to weld his own creations [UFO bikes}. Here is his email Hey Rob, Ya I put those bosses on
.I can tell by the hanger, as I did quite a few of that
style. Though it was long time ago It could have been a guy
named Darrel . I knew a few people who had Kos cruisers back
then they sold them at Caps in Saperton. When Caps was an
amazing store full to the rafters with kids bikes, crappy 10
speeds and trick high-end bikes all in one place (slightly
after this bike would have been purchased they had a swack
of Mountain goat fillet brazed with smoke paint--RAD! So if
I'm wrong the bike could of also come from Jacks in
Bellingham another shop who GOT cruisers-Or perhaps
P.D.'s on Oak St. Anyways It was definitely Converted by
me and probably in the late 80's,I can't remember
but I could have had it nicked as I had a good relationship
with one of the platers in town and plated Quite a few bikes
in nickel. Though all this said it definitely could have
been Rods bike as he had canties put on a few. We all loved
cruisers but we all hated the shitty brakes. Cant's and
Mathenhouser (SP) (Finned) where the way to go. Kos
cruisers have the best wheelie capabilities of any bike I
know. RAD!

Toby
If you look at
the curved tube for the hanger ,the space between the stays
has been filled up with brass to help attach the hanger and
to make it look nice .(this would never happen at the
factory as everything was TIG welded).
Ya
the Bmx Cruiser defiantly led the way for Mountain bikes 
.I had a DG cruiser that I had grafted a 5 speed cog set
onto in order to ride in the mountains ,as did many others.
The ARAYA Rims in 26" mad it possible for the clunkers
and later the custom builders to build mountain bikes .Do
you think anyone would of built a nice mountain bike and put
steel Schwinn wheels on it--na. Oh and what about tires
,There was several tires that were made for BMX cruisers
that went on to have a happy life after BMX cruisers died
and were reborn as Mountain bike tires (Mitsubishi comp
3-rad tire) Oh That sloping top tube on Mountain bikes so
original (I had one in 1979-26" bmx cruiser)

Toby


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I used to have this sticker on my Jofa helmet when I was a kid:


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I have always thought that MTB came out of BMX...even though I know that the true evolution were some roadie types taking their bikes off road. But for my whole area, any one who rode MTB in their adult life started on the BMX dirt trails and tracks...


That´s my understanding as well..


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Tomac started out racing MTBs on a converted 24" Mongoose.
> I have the pic somewhere...always wanted to build a replica of it, but nice 24 frames are pricey


Here's the pic. From the Fat Tire Flyer.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

rismtb said:


> The ARAYA Rims in 26" mad it possible for the clunkers
> and later the custom builders to build mountain bikes .Do
> you think anyone would of built a nice mountain bike and put
> steel Schwinn wheels on it--na.


This bike was built on Schwinn steel rims, because in 1978 that's all there was. It represents the first actual "mountain bike" that was built for that purpose, i.e. not modified from something else such as a BMX cruiser or a 40-y.o. Schwinn.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

interesting posts thanks for that. The length of that seat post on that 24 is whopper long can't imagine it didn't last long before bending the way he rode. And yes the 1st Breezer creation that came from hippies in the hills. What did the younger BMX up an comers think of the bomber crowd at the early race's? I know as soon as anybody rides a mtb all the time you get fit. So when the racing got serious there was a lot of bragging rites if you won. I also have learned that the BMX cult was into hot chicks and partying too. Nobody was taking hippy breaks or hacky sacking for that matter after thing got serious in racing. I believe the true heart of mtbing is still the same as the beginning... adventure with the ability to go anywhere on fat tires.


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## Mr Crudley (Jan 27, 2006)

Greatest thread ever. 

I never knew about the canti'ed Kos Kruisers. Good thing since my old Mongoose with the Shimano Tourney brakes and KoolStop pads stopped mediocre even at the best of times. Stopping is overrated when you are kid and your shoe on the chain stay and back tyre worked as an emergency brake.

No doubt in my mind that MTB came partly from the 26" BMX cruiser. 
As BMX kids got bigger then it would be natural choice.

That Kos is a keeper. Enjoy it, they are such cool bikes that I've wanted to have one in my garage. Even the Moosegoose is strangely loveable. 

All of the cruisers and MTB's have a charm about them that carbon fibre just won't do.


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