# intense socom, SS or specialized demo



## waxyboarder09 (Jul 21, 2008)

so i am looking for a new downhill machine, i want a socom, SS or Demo. i am small like 5'2" so i was wondering what one would be best, i have talked to some people and they said the SS is better then the socom because it would fit better. but i wanted the socom. then the demo is sweet to but i was wanting the VPP suspension. i will be using this bike for mostly DH but a few 10 or less foot drops and jumps. anyways so what are you guys thinking.


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

The SS would be more than enough machine for ya... plus you'd have the coolest new bike on the block.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

SS would be nice but if you want the SoCom then get it....demo not even in the league with these 2 bikes


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## CountryBoy (Oct 24, 2006)

I would have to say I see more Demo's then SS or Socoms.....


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## SuperKat (Mar 27, 2005)

*Ss*

I don't know...I'm still in love w/ that SS. :blush:


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm in love with my SS, the Socom's quite a different bike though.........what do you want it for?


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## bettermanNZ (May 7, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> SS would be nice but if you want the SoCom then get it....demo not even in the league with these 2 bikes


Yeah the Demo will probably track straight, not flex like a slippery salmon, and maybe not break ... definately go the SS :skep:


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

bettermanNZ said:


> Yeah the Demo will probably track straight, not flex like a slippery salmon, and maybe not break ... definately go the SS :skep:


What's the problem with your SS?


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

all great bikes. The VPP tends to lock up under pedaling more - pedaling seems to put power into the wheel more direct, some people love it, some people don't like that it makes the rear not want to track rocks and forces you up and over them rather then "through" them. Both bikes can be set up really well without a crappy "over damped" feel. Both have great CS and great Geo. I lean towards intense because I like smaller companies, I specifically don't like specialized as a company (although I don't argue they don't make great bikes), but you can't go wrong with any of those


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

I have both an SS and a Socom. The both rock, but they're quite different. The SS is low, nimble, loves lippy jumps and flowy lines but can take some abuse on chunder. The SS works nicely on jump lines where you have to pump each tranny to keep it going. The suspension is there to smooth things out a bit, but there's no mistaking that it's a 6" bike. The SS manuals with ease and generally feels easy to move around. 

The Socom has a little taller BB, is a little longer and more stable. Top tube length is similar and mine, setup with a Fox 40 (dropped 15 mm in its crowns) and flush headset, has just a hair over 66 deg HTA. This is very similar to the 66.5 HTA on the SS. These are actual measured numbers from my bikes. So, despite the FRO (for race only) designation, the Socom's geometry works exceedingly well as an all around DH/FR bike. The Socom eats up the rough like good freeride bike (not so much like full-on DH racer like an M3/6). It jumps well, and it's longer wheelbase is great in the steeps. It took me a run or two to get the hang of cornering with the higher BB, but the benefit over big rocks and logs was immediate.

Of note, both of these bikes pedal extremely well and as a result both get used for some trail riding. The SS is considerably better in this respect, due simply to the seat tube angle. The Socom's seat tube angle is a little too slack to put the rider in a great position for climbing. The SS on the other hand, excels when serving double-duty as an all-mountain steed. That doesn't mean I don't pedal my Socom up some awfully big hills from time to time, just that the SS is a bit better in this respect.

So -
Lift served, steeps, DH, chunder, less polished jumps/drops - Socom
Pedal up or Lift, flowy, buff jump lines, some trail - Slope Style


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

Good call Err.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

The OP is looking for a DH machine, that puts the Demo and Socom on the top of the list. The SS is a sweet bike, but maybe not what the poster is looking for. 

Is budget a concern? All of these are pricey but great machines.


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

yea, are you more lenient towards:

Starting to go huge on jumps; I know your first post said 10ft gaps, but are you planning to go bigger, and bash through anything in your path? ...... demo

full on downhill racing, with some smaller like 10ft jumps to fly through, and fast speed riding through anything, on a pricey bike? ..... socom

smooth, bermy trails with smooth tabletops and doubles and banks, and then a rough dh run and race every so often? ..... ss


..........but if you're just 5'2, you're probably pretty light also, so the SS might be good for full on dh'ing etc.


.........also, the Demo and the Socom are kinda in the same category of mountain bikes, but the demo is like a BMW, while the Socom is like a Ferrari ... I think that's true for the prices too


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> yea, are you more lenient towards:
> 
> Starting to go huge on jumps; I know your first post said 10ft gaps, but are you planning to go bigger, and bash through anything in your path? ...... demo
> 
> ...


ha ha nice comparison between demo=bmw and socom= ferrari,its a no brainer now for sure go with the demo.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

Fit is most important. For 5'2" Small SS sounds better than Demo or Socom. I'm 5'10" and ride Small Socom and bike fits perfectly, so unless you like to go with a longer bike it may be too big for you.

If you want 8" bike, while I will not consider Demo for myself (not fan of linkage driven single pivot bikes  ) Small Demo would fit better IMHO than Socom


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

*clarify and reiterate*



Stalk said:


> Fit is most important. For 5'2" Small SS sounds better than Demo or Socom. I'm 5'10" and ride Small Socom and bike fits perfectly, so unless you like to go with a longer bike it may be too big for you.
> 
> If you want 8" bike, while I will not consider Demo for myself (not fan of linkage driven single pivot bikes  ) Small Demo would fit better IMHO than Socom


The demo is Horst link, not linkage driven single pivot, which feels really good. Very active during pedaling and braking forces.

I agree with fit being the most important aspect here. Look at sizing and your abilty to fit comfortably first and foremost. All have adequate amounts of suspension travel, especially considering your weight. All the quality travel in the world means nothing if you can't ride it comfortably.


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## FreerideMonkey7 (Oct 12, 2007)

Err said:


> So -
> Lift served, steeps, DH, chunder, less polished jumps/drops - Socom
> Pedal up or Lift, flowy, buff jump lines, some trail - Slope Style


Thats funny I actually use my SS for what you described the Socom is better for. I mostly ride lift served, some steep sections, a lot of rocky and rooty downhill, and some of the jumps and drops are less polished... and i love it:thumbsup:

i could contro the SS better than say a sunday and i actually feel more confident on it dh-ing than i do on the medium sunday i rode for a day. i'm thinking maybe the sunday wasn't set up right for my weight ( bought 130lbs) i have my SS set up pretty stiff also (400lbs spring for my weight, 350 or 375 would be much better for me in dh).

oh and it jumps incredibly great and its jjust so much fun sessioning dirt jumps over and over again:thumbsup:

if you're light ( which i assume you are) and you dont mind pumping and picking lines(which you should anyway) and you want that light, flickery, but controlled feel, go SS.

If you're really not a fan of FR, and all you do is nasty dh, than maybe something like a socom or demo would be better, or maybe even a santa cruz V-10.:thumbsup:


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

Socom and SS has pretty much the same top tube length at each size interval. The seat tubes are a little shorter on the SS. The listed top-tube length is effective which takes into account the Socom's more slack STA and thus the larger number. The geo results in a fairly roomy cockpit for a given size along with excellent stand-over. I find the fact that I'm neither cramped in my reach to the bars nor busting my balls on the toptube all the time to be a real bonus. But, I have a longish torso and shortish legs, stacked about 5'8" all together.

FreerideMonkey7 - Dude, that's one of the things that so rad about the SS. It'll take the chunder all day if you're willing to throw down on it. I love the SS for its versatility. But, the Socom measures in with a slightly longer wheelbase along with another 2" of travel. And back-to-back through the chunder, the Socom is def a bit faster. On the smooth though, I can't currently match the pace that I can take on the SS on my Socom. The low BB and slack HTA make for infallible handling weather you're pinning it or boosting big jumps.

I've abused this pic a bit, but here's a shot of the SS in action -









No action shots of my Socom for some reason but here's a pic right after I got her assembled -


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## fteesee (Jul 22, 2008)

idk about the ss but i have a socom and absolutley love it except for that it dented like twice so :/. but the demo is not even a comparison


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## FreerideMonkey7 (Oct 12, 2007)

yeah, the socom is defenitly a faster bike when it gets rocky, gnarly, nasty, but I'm fine with the way the SS performs in those type's of trails and I'll sacrifice that for some jump performance:thumbsup:

Yeah I've seen both those pics before and that socom came out beautiful and that jumo looks so much fun:thumbsup:


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## fteesee (Jul 22, 2008)

yeah i was also kinda thinking about getting a ss as like a small travel bike too


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

aenema said:


> The demo is Horst link, not linkage driven single pivot, which feels really good. Very active during pedaling and braking forces.


I guess I should have whinked more    but let's be honest from technical standpoint. 
The chainstays are directly connect to shock, so it's even not a linkage driven which makes it more limited in terms of controlling leverage across the travel. 
The pedaling capabilities are driven by axle path vs. BB area. While Demo indeed features longest distance between chainstay pivot and axle the path is still on closer to the SP/4Bar design, don't belive? Check Turner website to TNT vs. Horst animation. I have ridden all listed there bikes Demo, SS and Socom and Demo is most sluggish bike to pedal.
The Horst linkage on Demo only drives Caliper position against the wheel so in effect acting as fancy floating brake mount. Not by accident Kona Stinky with Dope (floater) rode similarly to Demo in my limited experience (1 day on each of resort riding)

Said all that Demo is perfect bike for DH since all suspension treats could be easily adopted by modifying Center of Mass (CM) or in another words riding style, hence why everyone would swear for particular design they use and there are many designs to choose from.

Disclaimer: I do understand pointless of the discussing bike designs over internet and only doing it just cause I'm bored


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

Err said:


> Socom and SS has pretty much the same top tube length at each size interval. The seat tubes are a little shorter on the SS. The listed top-tube length is effective which takes into account the Socom's more slack STA and thus the larger number. The geo results in a fairly roomy cockpit for a given size along with excellent stand-over. I find the fact that I'm neither cramped in my reach to the bars nor busting my balls on the toptube all the time to be a real bonus. But, I have a longish torso and shortish legs, stacked about 5'8" all together.
> 
> FreerideMonkey7 - Dude, that's one of the things that so rad about the SS. It'll take the chunder all day if you're willing to throw down on it. I love the SS for its versatility. But, the Socom measures in with a slightly longer wheelbase along with another 2" of travel. And back-to-back through the chunder, the Socom is def a bit faster. On the smooth though, I can't currently match the pace that I can take on the SS on my Socom. The low BB and slack HTA make for infallible handling weather you're pinning it or boosting big jumps.
> 
> ...


Err wot size Socom you riding as i am same height w/ short legs?


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

Stalk said:


> I guess I should have whinked more    but let's be honest from technical standpoint.
> The chainstays are directly connect to shock, so it's even not a linkage driven which makes it more limited in terms of controlling leverage across the travel.
> The pedaling capabilities are driven by axle path vs. BB area. While Demo indeed features longest distance between chainstay pivot and axle the path is still on closer to the SP/4Bar design, don't belive? Check Turner website to TNT vs. Horst animation. I have ridden all listed there bikes Demo, SS and Socom and Demo is most sluggish bike to pedal.
> The Horst linkage on Demo only drives Caliper position against the wheel so in effect acting as fancy floating brake mount. Not by accident Kona Stinky with Dope (floater) rode similarly to Demo in my limited experience (1 day on each of resort riding)
> ...


one day of testing isnt really gonna show the benefits,and if you would have had your thinking cap on you would of realised that the demo is nothing like the stinky,horst link is in no way a glorified dope system the horst link is still plusher and much better at tracking than a stinky yeah the dope works but comparing the 2 as equals is a bit lame and shows your lack of testing abilities or feel for a bike.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

Stalk said:


> ...hence why everyone would swear for particular design they use ...





Stalk said:


> ... it pointless of the discussing bike designs over internet ...





konut said:


> ... horst link is in no way a glorified dope system the horst link is still plusher and much better at tracking than a stinky...


Sorry, thinking caps are not at large in my McDonnalds joint :skep:


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## irish_sloth (Nov 23, 2007)

I had a '06 bighit and now a Socom, I dont know about a demo, but my Big Hit felt like a Limo on turns, and you couldnt pedal it at all. The Socom tuns really nice and pedals nice too, I havent really tested it enough but on rock gardens I feel really confident with the socom....
thats my 2 cents


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## fteesee (Jul 22, 2008)

the only problems i have had with my socom is the weak metal.
it has dented twice! both in the down tube and one is like 3/4 of an inch deep!
it succckkkkssss


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

fteesee said:


> the only problems i have had with my socom is the weak metal.
> it has dented twice! both in the down tube and one is like 3/4 of an inch deep!
> it succckkkkssss


The Socom's are weak. Very weak in comparison to a Demo. Demo's are pretty stout bikes that can be built light, Socom's are very light bikes that aren't very stout. But then again the Socom IS intended for racing hence the FRO (for racing only) stickers that they place on the bike, that possibly explains the usage of lighter weight (and potentially weaker) tubing. The Demo however has cold forged bits all over the place (cold forged aluminum is MUCH stronger than simple aluminum tubing or cnc'd pieces because it uniformly aligns the grain of the material).

Socom- race on it, it's light but nowhere near as strong as a Demo. Very use specific but gawd [email protected] is it fast. I love them, I drool when I see them, but I'd probably break one. The intention of this bike is for it to be beat to [email protected] in a race season and then replaced with a new one for the next season. Sprinting ability and light weight is the goal here, not long term durability.

Demo- Race it, freeride it, abuse the poop out of it and it'll keep coming back for more. It might be a bit heavier but it'll last much longer.

And to the guy that says the Demo is a sluggish pedaler, well that's all a matter of suspension setup. You might say that you had it set up perfectly... but obviously you didn't, they pedal remarkably well when they're set up properly.


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

Stalk said:


> Sorry, thinking caps are not at large in my McDonnalds joint :skep:


you say its pointless discussing,but you compared a demo to a stinky,and i suggest a change of job if mcdonalds doesnt like its staff to think. :thumbsup:


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## DirtGash (Mar 1, 2008)

If you want to DH why in the hell would you even consider a SS frame/bike? A true DH bike has DH specific geometry for doing what it does best...downhilling. Last time I checked no DH pros use a stupid SS frame for DHilling.

As far as designs goes... Horst linkage is way superior to the VPP. Intense's biggest mistake was dropping the Horst and going with the VPP.

Personally if you're looking at a true DH rig, forget the Socom and Demo and get a Norco DH rig. They use the Horst linkage but unlike Specialized they have a true DH bike...


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

The SS is huckable, yum.


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

DirtGash said:


> If you want to DH why in the hell would you even consider a SS frame/bike? A true DH bike has DH specific geometry for doing what it does best...downhilling. Last time I checked no DH pros use a stupid SS frame for DHilling.
> 
> As far as designs goes... Horst linkage is way superior to the VPP. Intense's biggest mistake was dropping the Horst and going with the VPP.
> 
> Personally if you're looking at a true DH rig, forget the Socom and Demo and get a Norco DH rig. They use the Horst linkage but unlike Specialized they have a true DH bike...


"Last time I checked no DH pros use a stupid SS frame for DHilling."

Is the OP a Pro then?

I use my SS for Dh-ing and its great, it's no Sunday / M3 but then my SS kicks their ass when i hit up the jumps / 4Cross / trails, whereas they need a second rig to do that stuff.
You come across as very ignorant and obnoxious in your post, with things like "as far as design goes...."
Exactly what authority do you have to judge that Intense made any mistakes?
Can you prove Horst is better than VPP?

Last time i checked no 'Pro DH' champions use Horst!!

But they do use VPP!!:thumbsup:


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

Orange-Goblin said:


> Last time i checked no 'Pro DH' champions use Horst!!
> :


Not yet... but I'd wait for the 09 season, there might be some surprises. People need to realize that it's not really about the bike, but all about the rider.:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

you guys are all arguing about some reeeeeeeeealy nice bikes...you can't do bad with either......just personal pref and riding style

personally, if he's on an unlimited budget, I might go for the socom .... unless the guy weighs like 90lbs....then the ss


but the guy who started this thread,and who we're trying to help out, still has just one post.....


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

his dudeness said:


> Not yet... but I'd wait for the 09 season, there might be some surprises. People need to realize that it's not really about the bike, but all about the rider.:thumbsup:


I ABSOLUTELY agree, i was just using that as a retort to his ignorant statement really. Peaty on VPP, Hill on DW Link, and Gee Atherton use's a flipping single pivot, so what does that tell you!
Its all about the rider, every Pro's bike is SOOO tuned to the rider that any differences in pivot/link design are almost irrelevant. VPP suites me well, but its different for everyone.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Different Strokes, Different Strokes!!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Orange-Goblin said:


> I've said it before and i'll say it again, Different Strokes, Different Strokes!!


"you'll have yours, I'll have theirs, and They'll have mine... and together we'll be fine!"


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

Orange-Goblin said:


> I ABSOLUTELY agree, i was just using that as a retort to his ignorant statement really. Peaty on VPP, Hill on DW Link, and Gee Atherton use's a flipping single pivot, so what does that tell you!
> Its all about the rider, every Pro's bike is SOOO tuned to the rider that any differences in pivot/link design are almost irrelevant. VPP suites me well, but its different for everyone.
> 
> I've said it before and i'll say it again, Different Strokes, Different Strokes!!


Boo yah


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## SuperKat (Mar 27, 2005)

*Different Strokes*

Let's start it from the beginning! 

"Well the world don't moooooooooooooooooooooooove....."


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## Summit (Mar 25, 2004)

Since the OP seems to have disappeared, I'll hijack 

Got an opportunity to pick up an Intense of some sort. Probably won't do a gravity bike until next season, but I'm curious about braking. Some people say VPP is more affected by braking than FSR/Horst. True? I REALLY hate brake squat/jack/whatever, which is why I love my Demo - it just doesn't get bothered by braking bumps, etc...just tracks straight and true, with full use of suspension even under brake feathering. Does VPP lock up under braking? I've ridden an SS and I LOVED it but didn't get on a steep enough track to really tell how the suspension was affected by braking.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

If you wonna know the detailed answer try to search on Intense forum where quite a lot of information was spilled out. 

In short, VPP track very well while going over bumpy surface. On the smooth surface VPP would stiffen up but much less than Single Pivot bikes. 
The trick is that stiffening on the smooth is neccessary for the neutrality on the bumpy, since rear wheel contact point would travel longer distance vs. Center of Mass (Rider going stright while contact point curving around obstacle).


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