# Building in Root-Filled Terrain



## TheAtomicGoose (Sep 20, 2013)

Hi All,
I'm trying to build a backyard track, but I live in New England, and I'm having a really hard time digging as I hit a root every two seconds. I also don't have a pulaski, only an axe, but I'm afraid if I try to use the axe in the dirt that I'll destroy it. Any recommendations for how to deal with all the roots?

Thanks!


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Build over the roots? And get a Pulaski or similar tool. If we run into roots much larger than wrist sized we fill over them with dirt and make a small roller. Any roots smaller than that are cut out. Route the trail away from the trunk of trees and on the uphill side of the trunk to minimize their unearthing. Sometimes I use the wire of a pin flag to probe the soil and trace large shallow roots before digging.


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

Keep in mind that those roots are attached to a tree by you cutting them it compromises the structural integrity and health of the trees.
Older ones are more prone to the stress.
What Are the Dangers of Cutting Tree Roots? | Home Guides | SF Gate


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

If you're going to build any significant amount of trail, just get a good pulaski. Consider the notion that you might not want to cut out all of the roots you encounter. As mentioned, sometimes you can make rollers over larger ones, etc. - but also be aware that in spite of posts like TORQUE-29er's the odds of killing a tree that's in decent heath by cutting out a root is pretty low. I've constantly over the past two or three years heard more and more of this "Tree's will die if you cut more than one root out at X distance or if you cut a root out too close to the tree or .." - that sort of thing. But I ride trails built through thick woods all the time, and rarely have I seen a trail that was just lined with dead trees. In fact, that vast majority of the trees along the trail are quite healthy, and appear to be in more peril from being run into by passing riders than from any damage caused to their root systems. Just don't try to build a big cut out berm around a tree, and the tree should be find.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

It's New England; just gotta learn to love riding roots.

If you're trying to build something smooth in the yard like a pumptrack, I found it was best to call up and get a few truckloads of screened dirt. Trust me, your wrists will thank you.


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## TheAtomicGoose (Sep 20, 2013)

Thank you all! 

@aero: I can't really build around them, because I literally have an acre on which to build, and unfortunately it's completely flat. It's also very tree-dense, so routing the trail around the trees isn't really possible. 

@TORQUE-29er: I'll make sure to keep that in mind. 

@Cotharyus: well, you'll never guess what I'm trying to build: a cut-out berm. There isn't enough loose dirt to make one that's not cut out.

@slapheadmofo: I do like riding roots, but not when they're in a berm. I actually hadn't really thought about bringing in dirt, as there's no good place for them to dump it, but how much does a load of dirt cost?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

We're paying around $350 per 20yd load for screened loam (the nice stuff). Every shovelful is a thing of joy.

FWIW, I've found it's far better building UP than digging down around here if you're looking to end with something smooth and not filled with water on a regular basis.


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

Slapheadmofo that looks sweet:thumbsup:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks man, it's getting there. 80 yards and counting.

After building a small track in my yard using just the 'soil' on hand, I have sworn off ever trying to do any sort of pumptrackish build around here without getting the dirt delivered. Digging is just too brutal for the most part.

Working with nice 'clean' dirt though, is a treat. Holds up way better after a few seasons too - you don't get all sorts of rocks coming out of it all the time, packs and shapes easier, much better as far as future tweaking and moving stuff around over time or while getting things dialed in. (I moved some of those humps on the track 4 or 5 times before getting everything to work okay.)

OP, even if you're thinking more trail than pumptrack and you're not looking to pave the whole thing but want to just be able to sculpt certain stuff better or add a few fun things here and there, IMO, it's totally worth it to have a nice pile of brown stuff to throw around. Specially for something you're doing in your yard, cuz you want it to turn out sweet. Call around and see how much it would cost to get 10 yards dropped off. You'll be in psyched if you're looking to build berms and such. Screw roots and rocks - bury 'em!

Things get done a whole lot quicker too.


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## TheAtomicGoose (Sep 20, 2013)

Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near being able to afford dirt that expensive. That sure looks awesome though! The trees are also much larger and closer together where I'm digging, or did you cut all the big ones down?


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

Cotharyus said:


> If you're going to build any significant amount of trail, just get a good pulaski. Consider the notion that you might not want to cut out all of the roots you encounter. As mentioned, sometimes you can make rollers over larger ones, etc. - but also be aware that in spite of posts like TORQUE-29er's the odds of killing a tree that's in decent heath by cutting out a root is pretty low. I've constantly over the past two or three years heard more and more of this "Tree's will die if you cut more than one root out at X distance or if you cut a root out too close to the tree or .." - that sort of thing. But I ride trails built through thick woods all the time, and rarely have I seen a trail that was just lined with dead trees. In fact, that vast majority of the trees along the trail are quite healthy, and appear to be in more peril from being run into by passing riders than from any damage caused to their root systems. Just don't try to build a big cut out berm around a tree, and the tree should be find.


Cotharyus, are you an arborist? Cutting A root may not necessarily harm the tree however it does create a wound that opens up the tree to pathogens. As an arborist I've seen plenty of trees die from cut roots as well as topple over, this doesn't happen overnight it takes years for the tree to decline. I also understand that sometimes you'll need to break a few eggs to make an omelet, so cutting roots is sometimes a necessary evil when building trail. To compensate for root loss it's recommended to prune the canopy of the tree. You may also want to disinfect the Pulaski or other cutting tools so not to spread the Diseases from tree to tree.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TheAtomicGoose said:


> Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near being able to afford dirt that expensive. That sure looks awesome though! The trees are also much larger and closer together where I'm digging, or did you cut all the big ones down?


No, we actually just took a lot of brush and quite a few smaller trees. Nothing bigger than maybe 6" diameter, and even then, we tried to limit the cutting to just pines as much as possible. Having some shade is nice while riding and helps keep things from getting too dried out. Plus trees are fun to ride around - we tried to keep all the ones we could.

If buying dirt isn't in the cards now, have you scouted your property and maybe done a little searching for spot that might be okay for dig pit? It's more work, but if you pick a decent spot (and have good luck), once you get down past the upper layer of roots and rocks you can likely produce some decent stuff on your own. Lots of variables though, and LOTS of shovel time. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.


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## TheAtomicGoose (Sep 20, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> No, we actually just took a lot of brush and quite a few smaller trees. Nothing bigger than maybe 6" diameter, and even then, we tried to limit the cutting to just pines as much as possible. Having some shade is nice while riding and helps keep things from getting too dried out. Plus trees are fun to ride around - we tried to keep all the ones we could.


I totally agree that trees are nice to have around while riding...In the little area of woods behind my house that I can build in, there's lots of 15"+ diameter trees which are 50-100ft tall, so they're hard to dig around. There's actually a guy who owns a golf course on a massive amount of land that's only ~3/4mi through the woods. I should ask him if I can build on his land! That way I can find an area with sparser trees. My only concern is bears, since I'll be building by myself, but not much I can do about that...I did once see 5 bears on that guy's property.

Those pictures look gorgeous...It does sound nice to have some excess dirt. I (for now) am looking to build something between trail and pumptrack, with a few jumps/rollers but mostly just an area where I can ride a little singletrack, since a ton of the stuff around me is doubletrack. I also would love to get better at building...I did a trail crew in the White Mountains last summer and it was awesome. Obviously, building bike trails is different from building hiking trails, but still a good skill to have.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TheAtomicGoose said:


> I also would love to get better at building...I did a trail crew in the White Mountains last summer and it was awesome.


Cool - thanks!

Whereabouts are you? Is there any local trailbuilding going on? More NEMBA chapters have been springing up farther and farther north the past number of years, maybe you can team up with some other riders/builders and work on something cool on a bigger scale?


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

TORQUE-29er said:


> Cotharyus, are you an arborist? Cutting A root may not necessarily harm the tree however it does create a wound that opens up the tree to pathogens. As an arborist I've seen plenty of trees die from cut roots as well as topple over, this doesn't happen overnight it takes years for the tree to decline. I also understand that sometimes you'll need to break a few eggs to make an omelet, so cutting roots is sometimes a necessary evil when building trail. To compensate for root loss it's recommended to prune the canopy of the tree. You may also want to disinfect the Pulaski or other cutting tools so not to spread the Diseases from tree to tree.


I spent a fair amount of my younger years doing tree work. I know enough to know that ANY break in the bark opens a tree to infections, etc. I also understand how roots support a tree, and why, and even that different trees put roots out in different ways and are affected differently by having them cut. For what it's worth, most of the time you put a trail through the woods, and go by a tree and take a root out, it's usually just that - a root, if it's a big one. It can be dozens of smaller (under 1 inch) roots, but even with a machine, on average, per tree, root damage is below the threshold that weakens a tree. Also, when I cut roots, I cut them UNDER ground, and cover the cut over. As I pointed out to a park manager that told me I could build trail along a (cleared, briar filled) pipe line corridor once rather than in the woods, the point is for the trails to go through the woods. So the survival of the trees is a pretty big deal. My record is pretty as far as trees living, so I don't view it as much of a big deal when I'm building. Maybe though, my record is good because of the consideration I give the situation without really thinking about it due to my background?


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

I built my share of trails in old growth plantation and the best way (time, cost and labor-wise) is to raise the thread by adding dirt. Barely 3-4in in the center of the crown will ensure the roots will be protected and you won't have any issue of cutting roots or creating a typical north-eastern situation of root infestation to the point where the trail is unrideable.


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## TheAtomicGoose (Sep 20, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> Cool - thanks!
> 
> Whereabouts are you? Is there any local trailbuilding going on? More NEMBA chapters have been springing up farther and farther north the past number of years, maybe you can team up with some other riders/builders and work on something cool on a bigger scale?


I'm in Western Mass (near Northampton, if you know where that is). As far as I know, no trail building mountain bike or otherwise, is going on in the area. I'll check to see if there's a local chapter of NEMBA, great suggestion!


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## UncleTrail (Sep 29, 2007)

When you pile dirt up around trees like that you are slowly suffocating them to death. Probably not a big issue in NE though.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I hadn't thought that would be any sort of an issue in general - can you clarify?
Something to do with creating more impervious surface over the root systems?
Thx.


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

If the tree depends on rain water for survival, the extra soil might not allow sufficient moisture to reach the root system. The saguaro cacti in Arizona get almost all their moisture from the top couple if inches and will die if they are placed even a couple inches too deep. Trees typically breath through their foliage, so that's what I think he is referring to.


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## UncleTrail (Sep 29, 2007)

Coldfriction said:


> If the tree depends on rain water for survival, the extra soil might not allow sufficient moisture to reach the root system. The saguaro cacti in Arizona get almost all their moisture from the top couple if inches and will die if they are placed even a couple inches too deep. Trees typically breath through their foliage, so that's what I think he is referring to.


Roots need Oxygen. The water is an issue also as is the soil compaction and water infiltration, but plants need oxygen at their roots else the roots shrivel up, rot and die.

Healthy Roots and Healthy Trees

"The addition of only 4 to 6 inches of soil over an existing root system drastically reduces the amount of oxygen and water available to the roots"

I only know this too well as my first summer job in college I spent the entire summer unburying trees a supervisor in the company I worked for buried with about 8' of soil and then the City denied building permits until we uncovered the roots and built wells around each tree. It was a long, hot summer and I learned how to work the ass end of a shovel well.


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

Good to know. I wonder how species dependant that is.

If you want some if the best soil structurally for fill material for use other than a pump track or dirt jump course, ask for "aggregate base course." It'll have some larger rocks in it than the screened loam mentioned above, and will therefore be more of a pain to shovel around, but it also should be a bit more free draining and breathable for the trees. It'll cost more than the loam as well because it goes through a more refined process of mixing different soil sizes together. I'd imagine $25/yd is what you'd expect to pay. Use loam for pump tracks and dirt jumps.


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought this was pretty interesting..Why Trees Are Even More Awesome Than You Think | True Activist


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

TORQUE-29er said:


> Cotharyus, are you an arborist? Cutting A root may not necessarily harm the tree however it does create a wound that opens up the tree to pathogens. As an arborist I've seen plenty of trees die from cut roots as well as topple over, this doesn't happen overnight it takes years for the tree to decline. I also understand that sometimes you'll need to break a few eggs to make an omelet, so cutting roots is sometimes a necessary evil when building trail. To compensate for root loss it's recommended to prune the canopy of the tree. You may also want to disinfect the Pulaski or other cutting tools so not to spread the Diseases from tree to tree.


Over my 25+ years of trail building I've built lots of trails and cut out lots of roots and have yet to see a tree die because you've cut a small percentage of their roots. Trees get limbed, blazed, and cut all the time, by humans, wildlife and weather. None of that means I think a trail builder should just wantonly chop roots or branches without reason, but neither do I think one should shy away from doing what you need to do to build a sustainable trail (often when you leave roots, people just go around them and widen the trail) that fits the goals in your trail plan.


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