# Install washer between pedal and crank?



## Reposado Man (May 31, 2005)

I never used to install a washer but my newest set of pedals came with them. Does it make a difference either way? Too esoteric?


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm curious too. Ive seen some new bikes in shops that do not have pedals installed, but have a couple washers wire tied to one of the crank ends...


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

I used them on my recent build only because the cranks came with them. Never used them prior to that with no issues.


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

Yes, use them. Lube the threads and use the washers to keep them from seizing up over time.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

I recently had a medical bike fit to make sure my bike fit was not the cause of ankle problems I've been experiencing. The technician made several adjustments to my fit one of which was to widen my stance on my pedals by placing a washer between my pedals and my cranks. This is unlikely to be relevant for everyone's bike fit so you may not need the washers from a bike fit stand point.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Truvative/sram, FSA and Race Face recommend and supply washers with there cranks. I believe shimano is indifferent on the matter and Campagnolo specifically says not to on there carbon cranks.

2 wheels, speedplay actually makes different length spindles for people like you. If a spacer is enough great. If you need more Q factor might be worth looking into.


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## m85476585 (Jun 7, 2007)

I have a set of Raceface cranks with washers, and the pedals seized so bad I nearly destroyed my wrench trying to get them off. The threads were greased on installation. The LBS installed them, so I don't know how tight they installed them to begin with. I have no idea if the washers contributed to the problem or not.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Bontrager XX Carbon-yup.

Shimano Deore/LX/XT/XTR-nope.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Shimano Deore/LX/XT/XTR-nope.


My SLX double cranks came with washers. Not sure why. I use them because they are there, but I wish that I knew the purpose.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

JonathanGennick said:


> My SLX double cranks came with washers. Not sure why. I use them because they are there, but I wish that I knew the purpose.


Same here: the carbon cranks came with washers so I used them.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

JonathanGennick said:


> My SLX double cranks came with washers. Not sure why. I use them because they are there, but I wish that I knew the purpose.





Berkeley Mike said:


> Same here: the carbon cranks came with washers so I used them.


I also had a set of SLX two ring cranks. I called Shimano tech. and they told me I should use the washers. The dual ring cranks have a steel insert for the pedal threads. I would imagine that the washers distribute the load against the aluminum face of the crank and prevent the inserts working loose. I would assume that carbon cranks also have an insert.

Ronnie.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Ronnie, did they specify that's only for the two-ring slx?


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

Nickbm3 said:


> Ronnie, did they specify that's only for the two-ring slx?


It is. Apparently because the SLX double has steel pedal inserts while the triple does not. Something about distributing the force of the steel insert is why they're needed from what I've read.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

Nickbm3 said:


> Ronnie, did they specify that's only for the two-ring slx?





stumblemumble said:


> It is. Apparently because the SLX double has steel pedal inserts while the triple does not. Something about distributing the force of the steel insert is why they're needed from what I've read.


I never asked the question in terms of any other crankset but the FC-M665 two ring cranks came with the washers tied to the ends of the cranks. I've used many other Shimano cranksets (LX, XT & XTR) and none of them came with washers. They were the only ones that have the steel inserts so I'd say that "stumblemumble's" assesment is correct.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks guys :thumbsup:


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

m85476585 said:


> I have a set of Raceface cranks with washers, and the pedals seized so bad I nearly destroyed my wrench trying to get them off. The threads were greased on installation. The LBS installed them, so I don't know how tight they installed them to begin with. I have no idea if the washers contributed to the problem or not.


It has been my experience that almost everyone installs their pedals too tight. Unless you have a set of flats that have resistance so they don't spin you almost need no torque to keep them on. I can get my pedals off with a small allen wrench yet have never had one fall off or seize on me (and I do grease them but have never used the washers).

When I was a shop mechanic we used a 18" hozan or park pedal wrench to put on and take off pedals. I think it contributes to manufacturers including the washers, you need to wrench to take off pedals that are seized or put on too tight and when you reinstall them the wrench allows way too much torque again.

My 2 cents on this.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

^^^Agreed. I always just more than hand snugged my pedals and never had a problem. For reference the Point One Podiums actually specify an install torque of 133 in/lbs.


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

stumblemumble said:


> ^^^Agreed. I always just more than hand snugged my pedals and never had a problem. For reference the Point One Podiums actually specify an install torque of 133 in/lbs.


133 pound inch (15 newton meter) is a little more than snug.

Shimano's specified torque for all their pedals is somewhat higher:

"Tightening torque:
35 - 55 N·m {304 - 477 in. lbs.}"


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

rockcrusher said:


> It has been my experience that almost everyone installs their pedals too tight. Unless you have a set of flats that have resistance so they don't spin you almost need no torque to keep them on. I can get my pedals off with a small allen wrench yet have never had one fall off or seize on me (and I do grease them but have never used the washers).


While you don't need much torque to keep the pedals on, the long term problem of pedals which aren't firmly tightened down is fretting fatigue. Fretting fatigue happens when the thread surfaces along with the pedal/crank face interface move against each other from pedaling forces; pedals will not self-tighten enough to prevent this from happening. Over time this gradually wears down the threads in the crank and it can also cause stress fractures around the threads. The pedals will also slowly eat into the crank; they wear away a bit of the surface on the crank, tighten themselves in a bit further, and it keeps repeating until you have a nice lip around the hole.

And that's why you should snug the pedals down good & hard. It greatly reduces the amount of movement which can take place at the threads and puts the brakes on fretting fatigue.


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## FredNo (Aug 5, 2014)

Just looked at FSAs FAQs:

Do I need to use the pedal washers with my FSA crank?

Pedal washers need to be used with carbon fiber cranks. Pedal washers are designed to protect the crank material from stress or abrasion created with the pedal interface.

I put some on. BTW, my pedals were hard to get off, and I purposely didn't torque them on very tight. Maybe a washer would have helped with that, too.


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## Vertigo Performance (Oct 3, 2014)

Has anyone tried Anti-seize on the threads? 

Here's a thought..
When steel bolts are used on aluminium the two metal properties can seize together once the pedal begins to oxidize from the elements. This could fuse the pedal to the crank making it extremely difficult to get off.. The washer would prevent this seizing from happening..


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Vertigo Performance said:


> Has anyone tried Anti-seize on the threads?
> 
> Here's a thought..
> When steel bolts are used on aluminium the two metal properties can seize together once the pedal begins to oxidize from the elements. This could fuse the pedal to the crank making it extremely difficult to get off.. The washer would prevent this seizing from happening..


anti-seize would work, but I always grease pedal threads liberally. Grease is cheaper, and have never had a problem with my pedals seizing so long as I've used it.


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## FredNo (Aug 5, 2014)

I use just enough grease (Phil Wood Waterproof) on the threads so that they ooze, and a thin film on both sides of the washers.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

I stopped using the washers. I liberally coat the threads with lithium grease and don't over torque the pedals, I haven't had any issues. I also have never run with carbon cranks, but if I did I would definitely use washers (if required) and use a torque wrench to specs.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Vertigo Performance said:


> Has anyone tried Anti-seize on the threads?
> 
> Here's a thought..
> When steel bolts are used on aluminium the two metal properties can seize together once the pedal begins to oxidize from the elements. This could fuse the pedal to the crank making it extremely difficult to get off.. The washer would prevent this seizing from happening..


Yes, I use anti-seize on all threaded bolts/screws, especially pedal threads and bottom bracket threads. I find that it makes it easier to remove and seems to hold up better than typical bike grease. I use bike grease for smoothe metal to metal contact like headset to head tube.

I also use the pedal washers, they have come with either pedals that I have bought or cranksets, just makes it easier to remove the pedals.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh yeah, I buy the anti-seize at wal mart in the automotive section. It is a lot cheaper than the "bike brNded" anti-seize sold at bike shops and seems to be the same product.


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