# Hope Tech V4



## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

Anyone on these yet? How do they compare to the M4s? Anywhere available to purchase in the states?


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

Only just released at Euro bike, so probably not available til next year. Meant to be the successor to the V2, so a whole hell of a lot more powerful than the M4.

Email Hope US to find out more.


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

Shalom said:


> Only just released at Euro bike, so probably not available til next year. Meant to be the successor to the V2, so a whole hell of a lot more powerful than the M4.
> 
> Email Hope US to find out more.


Hope says they were released last week. CRC appears to have them in stock. Might have to jump on a set.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

Go for it! Would love a ride report. Apologies - normally they take a while. Hence their seatpost is named Eternity....


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Oy I can't wait . . . I'll be on these for sure for my next build.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

OO7 said:


> Oy I can't wait . . . I'll be on these for sure for my next build.


Haha, definitely between these and the new Saints...


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

You can get them from hope in Texas right?


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Shalom said:


> Haha, definitely between these and the new Saints...


Saint's do indeed look the part, but I REALLY like the simplicity and adjustability of the Hope's. That and the lever ergonomics just fit me better.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

OO7 said:


> Saint's do indeed look the part, but I REALLY like the simplicity and adjustability of the Hope's. That and the lever ergonomics just fit me better.


I would agree with you there. And the Hope's are just plain sexy


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

OO7 said:


> Saint's do indeed look the part, but I REALLY like the simplicity and adjustability of the Hope's. That and the lever ergonomics just fit me better.


Plus they are completely rebuildable, you can get parts, customer service, etc...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

So whilst I was looking at bike pr0n... I came upon (sorry for pun) this on an Italian website:

























What gives? Hope's website lists the regular silver/black version and the all black "Stealth" edition only... nothing about any other colour combination.


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## carrlf (Mar 26, 2011)

those are nice, will have to get some when they are available


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I bet those are custom one-offs that company makes. Take the stock silver and blacks and you can have them anodized what ever color you want.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

StanleyJ said:


> So whilst I was looking at bike pr0n... I came upon (sorry for pun) this on an Italian website:
> 
> View attachment 729864
> 
> ...


They look like a special edition for one of their pro athletes. I forget who, but he has all red anodised Hope bits hanging from his bike.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

OO7 said:


> I bet those are custom one-offs that company makes. Take the stock silver and blacks and you can have them anodized what ever color you want.





Shalom said:


> They look like a special edition for one of their pro athletes. I forget who, but he has all red anodised Hope bits hanging from his bike.


Kill two birds with one stone... from what I ascertain from the Italian, this is an actual option. If they just colour-anodised the regular silver parts, then the laser etched stuff would be coloured too (see i9 "Black I"/"Red I" wheelsets, with "double dipped" hubs). Bit crazy to laser-etch them a second time (what with reverse engineering the etching, alignment, etc). Plus that isn't "all red", of whichever pro athletes is supposed to have on their bike. I fired an email off to Hope UK and see what they have to say for themselves about those strange V4s... if they reply at all.

In the meantime, I'd like to see a ride report. The V4s are supposed to be about 15% more powerful than the superseded V2 on the same rotor diameter. So V4+160mm ~= V2+183mm, V4+183mm ~=V2+203mm. V4+203mm = insane. That also means a V4 with a puny 160mm rotor (as the rotors across the range are common once more) is comparable to an M4 with 203mm rotors. Ouch.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Dart @ Hope UK said:


> Hi, we sometimes do a special run for some of our export companies, but
> unfortunately they aren't available in UK shops. Sorry about that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dart.


From the horses mouth... turns out DSB Bonandrini is the Italian distributor. Explains some gold, blue and gunsmoke coloured 1st Gen Tech X2s I saw in Hong Kong a few years back. Looks like you guys in the USA might get lucky if you give Hope USA a good nag? :thumbsup:


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> From the horses mouth... turns out DSB Bonandrini is the Italian distributor. Explains some gold, blue and gunsmoke coloured 1st Gen Tech X2s I saw in Hong Kong a few years back. Looks like you guys in the USA might get lucky if you give Hope USA a good nag? :thumbsup:


V4s ordered, should have them late this week or early next  I will be sure to report back comparing them to Tech M4s.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Just ordered mine as well. I will put my v2 and x2 on my new SLR.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

Would be keen to hear how they compare to M4 and maybe X2, but I guess that comparison would be obvious.

Oh, and pictures please :thumbsup:


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Will post when I get them. I honestly don't know why I am buying them. The V2 is good, but my old 6 piston ti was better. Not a little better, but a LOT better than the V2, no matter how much Phil at Hope tries to tell me that the V2 is more powerful. It's not. Don't get me wrong, the V2's are really powerful, but the old 6ti was unbelievable. But the hopes are just so good, I just never have any issues with any of them. Such a set it and forget it brake.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

mazspeed said:


> But the hopes are just so good, I just never have any issues with any of them. Such a set it and forget it brake.


Definitely agree with you there!


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

mazspeed said:


> Will post when I get them. I honestly don't know why I am buying them. The V2 is good, but my old 6 piston ti was better. Not a little better, but a LOT better than the V2, no matter how much Phil at Hope tries to tell me that the V2 is more powerful. It's not. Don't get me wrong, the V2's are really powerful, but the old 6ti was unbelievable. But the hopes are just so good, I just never have any issues with any of them. Such a set it and forget it brake.


Agreed. I love Hope brakes, honestly, other than wanting more power, there is no reason to replace my M4s, they just work. I have tried nearly all brakes, from Avid to Shimano to Formula, and I like Hopes the best.

I loved the Tech V2s, but I think some of your power comments came from the flexy caliper. I was told it was "tuned flex" which is what gave them such great modulation.

I am hoping the new V4 has the smooth power delivery of the M4s If the power claims are true, then this brake will be rediculous.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

That's what I am thinking TiSSer. I use the EBC reds on the V2's and the x2's as well and it helps. I think the V4's should be about 20 percent better, but will find out. Phil told me that I had to order new disc's as well, and I did, but will see if they are the same as the old ones. He did tell me at one time that the V2's took a wider disc, and it doesn't. If he does this again I won't be happy with him.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

The red and black ones look really slick.


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

mazspeed said:


> That's what I am thinking TiSSer. I use the EBC reds on the V2's and the x2's as well and it helps. I think the V4's should be about 20 percent better, but will find out. Phil told me that I had to order new disc's as well, and I did, but will see if they are the same as the old ones. He did tell me at one time that the V2's took a wider disc, and it doesn't. If he does this again I won't be happy with him.


He told me my M4 rotors would work. The pads are different however. I hope he was able to ship them out today so i have them for the weekend!


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

tiSS'er said:


> He told me my M4 rotors would work. The pads are different however. I hope he was able to ship them out today so i have them for the weekend!


Show a pic once you get them. I will do the same.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> Will post when I get them. I honestly don't know why I am buying them. The V2 is good, but my old 6 piston ti was better. Not a little better, but a LOT better than the V2, no matter how much Phil at Hope tries to tell me that the V2 is more powerful. It's not. Don't get me wrong, the V2's are really powerful, but the old 6ti was unbelievable. But the hopes are just so good, I just never have any issues with any of them. Such a set it and forget it brake.


From what I can ascertain about the V4 online is that pad area is greater than the V2, though the track-width is the same as X2/M4 (and thus use the same saw-tooth rotors). This means longer pads... just like the 6Ti, though obviously the 6Ti is 6-pot.

We know the V4 has a 18mm leading piston, with the other being a 16mm piston (straight off the M4). What are the 6Ti's piston diameters? Difference in mechanical advantage can be worked out from that and infer whether the V4 or the 6Ti is a stronger brake.


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

Any one in need of the new Hope stealth brakes or any other Hope product? Check me out on pinkbike mtb4life05
I can get any combination of brakes you want.
I also build these to order witch means I will make the braided lines to your exact length.
I am a small bike shop that just happens to carry the Hope line

Keep your hard earned dollars in the good old USA!


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

*Hope stealth*

I have a pair of EVO Tech M4's black w/red bore caps,red barrel adj's, and red reservoir caps.
that I will be selling if anyone is interested. Contact me through mtbr or pinkbike


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

No offence, but this is your 4th post and you have questionable rep. Not that rep makes a difference, but the post in itself is in question. I think I will get my new brakes though Hope.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

mtb4life05 said:


> Any one in need of the new Hope stealth brakes or any other Hope product? Check me out on pinkbike mtb4life05
> I can get any combination of brakes you want.
> I also build these to order witch means I will make the braided lines to your exact length.
> I am a small bike shop that just happens to carry the Hope line
> ...


C'mon man . . . buy some Ad space at least.


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

? Rep explain yourself. you must know something I don't


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## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

Has anyone figured out (or I may have missed it), do the V4's use regular rotors, or do they still use the vented/non-vented V2 type rotors?

Edit: Post 27 may just have answered this....

-Brett


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Carraig042 said:


> Has anyone figured out (or I may have missed it), do the V4's use regular rotors, or do they still use the vented/non-vented V2 type rotors?
> 
> Edit: Post 27 may just have answered this....
> 
> -Brett


Ditto. And on Hope's website, the Stealth edition brakes are shown with the V4 vented rotor... where the brake track looks the same as the Mono Mini/X2/M4 saw-tooth rotors. Which actually gets me wondering... would V4 vented rotors work* with X2/M4 calipers?

*I know the V4 vented rotor is a bit thicker, though this time round the difference doesn't seem as drastic as it was with the V2 rotor type.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

mtb4life05 said:


> ? Rep explain yourself. you must know something I don't


I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but you really need to do adverts though mtbr. Not only that, but how can you get deals on Hope that none of us can't get though their Texas distributorship? Also if you are a rep of Hope, I don't think they would take kindly to this type of advertising. 
Also you have done something to warrant a negitive rep, which is why you have a red dot under your name. 
Can you explain how you get deals with Hope?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> Ditto. And on Hope's website, the Stealth edition brakes are shown with the V4 vented rotor... where the brake track looks the same as the Mono Mini/X2/M4 saw-tooth rotors. Which actually gets me wondering... would V4 vented rotors work* with X2/M4 calipers?
> 
> *I know the V4 vented rotor is a bit thicker, though this time round the difference doesn't seem as drastic as it was with the V2 rotor type.


I should be able to answer this when I get mine in a few days.


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

My V4s came in today. Mounted them up to my existing 183mm floating M4 rotors. The rear brake was spongy, so I bled it (did the front as well). I would have bled it anyway since I like to run Motul RBF600. There was some air in the lines, but all is good now. I did destroy my rear rotor on Sunday's ride, but was able to true it up, so that may have played a bit in the mushy feeling lever as well. 

Mounting was easier than ever. The brake lines were the perfect length, so no cutting needed. I did pull the brake pads out and compare them the M4 pads, and they are slightly larger, but it is hardly noticeable to the naked eye. Hope sent me both organic and sintered pads, I left the organics in as I figured I would give those a try. I typically don't like the grabby initial bite that organics provide. 

I did spend some time running up and down the road, bedding in the pads. After about 10 runs per brake, I think I can make a few qualifications.

1. They are very powerful. Are they stronger than the V2s? It has been a while since I rode my Tech V2s with 203/183 setup, but I think so. They are more powerful than the M4s, and it comes on quicker. However, the modulation is excellent, and it doesn't feel like any modulation has been forgone to achieve the power. 

2. The organic pads feel very nice. They have a softer feel at the lever than the sintered pads do. Sintered pads seem to give a stiffer lever feel. So far, they are dead silent. That may change though with the dusty desert conditions I ride in. In the past, sintered pads have run quieter than organics. 

3. Setup was typical Hope. After working with Hopes, it was very quick. 

I am hoping to get out on the trail tomorrow and do a fair break-in. I will report back after some real time on them. Basically they feel like more powerful M4s, and that is exactly what I was looking for.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Nice. You take any photos of them yet?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Subscribed. Very interested in these brakes and anything Hope.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

If V4's on 183F/183R feel more powerful than V2's on 203F/183R, what with most of the braking done on bicycles with the front brake... then colour me impressed! Now just waiting for mazspeed to chime in to see how the new V4's fair against the "older but still better than V2" Mono-6Ti.

@tiSS'er: So it does indeed seem the V4 uses the same rotor (and thus track width) as the X2/M4? Eyeballing it, you reckon a V4 caliper will work with the 160mm and 140mm rotors? I have my reasons...


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> If V4's on 183F/183R feel more powerful than V2's on 203F/183R, what with most of the braking done on bicycles with the front brake... then colour me impressed! Now just waiting for mazspeed to chime in to see how the new V4's fair against the "older but still better than V2" Mono-6Ti.
> 
> @tiSS'er: So it does indeed seem the V4 uses the same rotor (and thus track width) as the X2/M4? Eyeballing it, you reckon a V4 caliper will work with the 160mm and 140mm rotors? I have my reasons...


I didn't take any photos as the lighting was pretty poor. What would you like to see?

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work with the 160/140 setup. I have a 160 floating rotor at home which I considered putting on to give me a bit more clearance in the rear.

I will be heading out tonight for a ride, I will report back with details.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> If V4's on 183F/183R feel more powerful than V2's on 203F/183R, what with most of the braking done on bicycles with the front brake... then colour me impressed! Now just waiting for mazspeed to chime in to see how the new V4's fair against the "older but still better than V2" Mono-6Ti.
> 
> @tiSS'er: So it does indeed seem the V4 uses the same rotor (and thus track width) as the X2/M4? Eyeballing it, you reckon a V4 caliper will work with the 160mm and 140mm rotors? I have my reasons...


Will let you know, I am getting them this week. :thumbsup:
I have really big tires now, 2.5 front and 2.3 rear on my HD so if the V4's are better, I will know right away.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I did promise a bleed write up. Mine is not as detailed as this would be. I do a few things differently, but this is spot on if you need to bleed your brakes.
Hope Technology - Brake Bleed (Tech lever) - YouTube


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

I got out last night for a short ride last night and came away impressed. The power was great, although not overwhelming. I feel as though the power is getting better with every downhill. It has been a while since I used Hope pads, and if I remember correctly they take a bit longer than most to bed in properly. Combine that with the fact that I am using older rotors and it makes sense. That being said, they are already very strong, and should get stronger with a few more rides. 

The beauty of the Hopes is the modulation. I ride in the desert where we have lots of sand, crushed granite, and loose conditions. Braking to me is more about control than flat out power. My concern with the V4s was that I was going to lose modulation over the M4. I actually think the modulation is better with the V4. You can dial in just the right amount of power and the power is very progressive. With the organic pads I feel like i get better feedback from the brake. The brakes were dead silent which is a plus. 

I can't wait to get some more time on them, but I think these are a great setup.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Sounds awesome... I assume you didn't put them on a weight weenie scale, though in just taking the old M4s off and putting the V4s on, are they lighter, much the same or heavier? I ask as the V2 with braided hoses was actually lighter than M4s with Tech levers + braided hoses. The extra heft of the V2 set up was the rotors. As the V4 now uses the same rotor as everything else in the Hope range... and the V4 is lighter than the V2 "as an overall setup" (says Hope), just curious how much difference there is with the M4?


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> Sounds awesome... I assume you didn't put them on a weight weenie scale, though in just taking the old M4s off and putting the V4s on, are they lighter, much the same or heavier? I ask as the V2 with braided hoses was actually lighter than M4s with Tech levers + braided hoses. The extra heft of the V2 set up was the rotors. As the V4 now uses the same rotor as everything else in the Hope range... and the V4 is lighter than the V2 "as an overall setup" (says Hope), just curious how much difference there is with the M4?


Sorry, I didn't weigh them. Weight really doesn't matter to me too much, more interested in performance and durability. The are certainly lighter then V2s simply due to the rotor.


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

The new V4s work great with the regular HOPE 203mm rotors. TiSSER pretty much described its performance when compared to the M4s - No modulation loss but improved bite.

Depending on front fork and front hub there might be some rubbing of the rivets on the inside of the fork brake mount if using HOPE's floating rotors (I experienced the following below for both HOPE 183 and 203mm floating rotors. Regular rotors no prob.

CK front hub with FOX 36 fork = rubbing

Hadley front hub with FOX 36 fork = rubbing

HOPE Pro 2 Evo front hub with FOX 36 fork = NO rubbing

There have been posts already regarding more severe rub if using HOPE vented floating rotors over the normal floating ones due to the slightly wider profile.

In any case, I contacted CRC as to when HOPEs new 2013 floating vented rotors and V4 pads would be out. Here's what they wrote:



> Thank you for your email.
> 
> The Hope V4's uses the same floating rotor as the V2. You can also use the standard Saw Tooth floating rotor used with the M4 and M6 caliper.
> 
> ...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

CRC clearly think we are fools and/or blind... Hope's own website shows the V4 vented rotor:

Stealth Tech Evo - Stealth Tech Evo Product Details

... and PinkBike show it (V4 vented) being much slimmer than the V2 monster, much more like the regular saw-tooth rotors:

in Wester Ross, Scotland - photo by cloverleaf - Pinkbike

Of course, V2 rotors would work... just would be carrying a lot of excessive unused steel!

Edit... Dart @ Hope UK replied in a record 7 minutes!:



> Hi, the V4 uses a different vented rotor to the older V2.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dart.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

mazspeed said:


> I did promise a bleed write up.


I need to bleed my brakes this week . . . can you remind me again what you do differently?

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## A MAN CALLED HORSE (Nov 3, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> Sounds awesome... I assume you didn't put them on a weight weenie scale, though in just taking the old M4s off and putting the V4s on, are they lighter, much the same or heavier? I ask as the V2 with braided hoses was actually lighter than M4s with Tech levers + braided hoses. The extra heft of the V2 set up was the rotors. As the V4 now uses the same rotor as everything else in the Hope range... and the V4 is lighter than the V2 "as an overall setup" (says Hope), just curious how much difference there is with the M4?


My front V4 weighed 320g on the Alpine digital scale. Thats lever, caliper and Goodridge hose- no bolts or mounts etc.

The brake it replaced was a last gen XT, the M775 and that weighed 280g - without braided hose. I think that would account for 40g. All in all, i think it's a good weight on the V4 for what you get.

Hope now send the brakes out with both types of pads which is a nice touch. I compared the pad size with some others i had and they are a lot bigger than the XT and almost identical to Magura Gustav in width and length.

Not had chance for a decent ride yet, but just up and down the road trying to bed them in and they feel nice and strong.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

A MAN CALLED HORSE said:


> My front V4 weighed 320g on the Alpine digital scale. Thats lever, caliper and Goodridge hose- no bolts or mounts etc.
> 
> The brake it replaced was a last gen XT, the M775 and that weighed 280g - without braided hose. I think that would account for 40g. All in all, i think it's a good weight on the V4 for what you get.
> 
> ...


Errrm. Wow! Tech V2s were 343g... and Tech M4s with braided hoses were/are 352g. So Tech V4s, even with braided hoses are about the same weight as Tech M4s with black lightweight hoses. Yet obviously more (though very controlled) power. And literally just ~30g heavier than Race M4s. Crazy! 

Looks like Hope will have to do some revisioning and extra CNC work on their M4 and possibly X2... with more finning and moving the hose inboard. Otheriwse, if you were using Tech levers... may as well just use a V4 if an X2 isn't up to scratch!


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## A MAN CALLED HORSE (Nov 3, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> Errrm. Wow! Tech V2s were 343g... and Tech M4s with braided hoses were/are 352g. So Tech V4s, even with braided hoses are about the same weight as Tech M4s with black lightweight hoses. Yet obviously more (though very controlled) power. And literally just ~30g heavier than Race M4s. Crazy!
> 
> Looks like Hope will have to do some revisioning and extra CNC work on their M4 and possibly X2... with more finning and moving the hose inboard. Otheriwse, if you were using Tech levers... may as well just use a V4 if an X2 isn't up to scratch!


Just dug up some old weights of my own for comparison (not that i'm a w.w. or anything, you understand!- just weigh stuff out of interest)

front Tech V2 (old style) - 330g

front Tech V2 (newer style with smaller calliper) 300g

front Tech M4 (plastic hose) 270g

front X2 Pro 210g

So, going off my scale, the V4 is around the same weight as the original V2 (which uses heavier discs) and a tiny bit heavier than an M4 with the same hose.

I have the V2 203 disc at 200g and the M4 203 disc at 170g. This would make the new V4 and outgoing V2 the same weight to within 10g.

So Hope's claim about the V4 being lighter overall is true. ha ha.

Bear in mind my scale only goes to the nearest 10g i think.

Anyhow the weights might be interesting but it's how the brake performs that really matters of course :thumbsup:


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Ah... thanks for the correction/update.  Indeed don't really care +/- 30g or so... considering they'll be stopping a mass a couple orders of magnitude greater (60kg~200kg... tandem teams!) that's moving at a fair rate of knots.


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## wfoacman (May 5, 2009)

Where's the review? Spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

wfoacman said:


> Where's the review? Spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know.


They're from Hope . . . you know they are going to be badass. :thumbsup:


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

wfoacman said:


> Where's the review? Spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know.


I only got one more ride on them and I am impressed. I am sill running the organics and I think they are still bedding in. It seems that every time I grab them they are getting stronger. So strong in fact that i am considering dropping a rotor size. With the organics, I I initially felt that the modulation was better than the M4s with sintered pads. With more time, I think I am missing some of the modulation at the very beginning of the stroke. Most likely this can be remedied with more time, and me simply using less pressure on the lever. I am still trained on my M4s. If that doesn't work, I will try the sintered pads that Hope sent me. I have always felt that sintered pads give you more linear braking, where organics are more grabby initially.

Not an apples to apples comparison, but I do have 2012 Shimano XTs with icetech pads and rotors on my 29er. The V4s are significantly stronger and smoother. I couldn't say that about my M4s.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

OO7 said:


> They're from Hope . . . you know they are going to be badass. :thumbsup:


Almost ruined my laptop on reading that... don't drink whilst reading MTBR forums! 



tiSS'er said:


> So strong in fact that i am considering dropping a rotor size.


You're running 183mm front+back right? You thinking of dropping down to 160mm just on the back or on the front as well(!!)? Mind if I ask what weight you are "ready to ride"? Because that sounds like seriously strong brakes! :thumbsup:


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## wfoacman (May 5, 2009)

OO7 said:


> They're from Hope . . . you know they are going to be badass. :thumbsup:


Indeed, believe me, I know, Hope is dope. I have about 6 pairs of old M4, Mono M4's and two pairs of Tech EVO M4's. "Hope Brake Junkie" I'm 250 lbs. RTR, I'm running 203 front and 183 rear. I love the Tech M4's but, the ability to possibly run 183 front and 160 rear with the V4's does peak my interest as does the feedback on different pad compounds.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Just to clarify, are they dumping the V2?

I'd love a V4-183/V2-160 setup . . . .


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## wfoacman (May 5, 2009)

OO7 said:


> Just to clarify, are they dumping the V2?
> 
> I'd love a V4-183/V2-160 setup . . . .


I don't see them.

Brakes - Disc Brakes


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

OO7 said:


> Just to clarify, are they dumping the V2?
> 
> I'd love a V4-183/V2-160 setup . . . .


Yes, the V2 is dumped. The 160mm fixed trials rotor will work on the V2 (same basic caliper design)... though considering the improvements on the V4 over the V2, what's wrong with V4 with 183mm/160mm rotors?

As the Hope brake range now use the same rotor across the range, I hazard an educated guess that the 140mm rotor will work too. Would be ace if someone can try this on their V4? :thumbsup:


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I personally like the simplicity of a 2-POT design. Fewer moving parts to foul up . . . .


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Finally got them hooked up. These things are pretty light, and very grippy. Will take them out today or this weekend.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

@Mike: What size rotors you got front+back on there? They look like 183mm/160mm, though wouldn't want to ass-u-me.

Edit: I see mount "C" up-front, so that's a 203mm... so 183mm out back? Looks mighty small... though that could just be the longer V4 caliper! :thumbsup:


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Yep, 203 front 183 rear.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> Yep, 203 front 183 rear.


That's a pretty long caliper to make the back look like a 160mm.  Now go out and ride! :thumbsup:


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## fahza29er (Jun 26, 2012)

Yep those are sweet, I am getting the raw ali ones myself over the winter with the rotors as well. Red I hope to match my red Hope hubs.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I just now noticed that the banjo bolt has been repositioned and so has the bleed nipple. I like it. MUCH smarter design.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> That's a pretty long caliper to make the back look like a 160mm.  Now go out and ride! :thumbsup:


Will do my man, will do. :thumbsup:


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## fahza29er (Jun 26, 2012)

wow I dint even notice you said V4 not M4 I didn't even know they made a V4, my LBS didn't either nor did his supplier LOL, they do now though, waiting on a price for these bad boys. I think I am also geting the stem and seatpost clamp, going all red hope.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

They just came out with the V4. It's Brand new.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Wow, these are VERY powerful once you bed them in. Very very impressed. Maybe on par with the 6ti.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> Wow, these are VERY powerful once you bed them in. Very very impressed. Maybe on par with the 6ti.


That is impressive, considering the physical size difference between the Mono6 and V4 calipers!


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Not a ton of difference. Pad area is close to the same though.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

mazspeed said:


> Not a ton of difference. Pad area is close to the same though.


If I'm not mistaken, it uses the same pads as the M4, so pad area is...........identical.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

the-one1 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, it uses the same pads as the M4, so pad area is...........identical.


Well, if that is the case, the Hope really must be smoking some strong crack to issue new part numbers for their V4 pads (organic: HBSP303, sintered: HBSP303S) when the M4 ones, which in turn are the same as the Mono M4 pads (organic: HBSP130, sintered: HBSP130S)... would have sufficed.

Pads -

Not to mention defy Physics in having a stronger brakes than not just the V2, but the 6-pot Mono6 as well... all with just increasing the lead piston diameter from 16mm to 18mm.


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

I read in some threads that some people think that Shimano Saint and Formula The One are more powerful than Hope V2, but since these V4 should be more powerful too, do you think V4 has more power than Shimano and Formula or not?

p.s. I still don't understand if the only difference between M4 and V4 are (one) piston size and pads.

(sorry if I made some grammatical mistake, english it's not my main language  )


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Overdrive_FR said:


> I read in some threads that some people think that Shimano Saint and Formula The One are more powerful than Hope V2, but since these V4 should be more powerful too, do you think V4 has more power than Shimano and Formula or not?
> 
> p.s. I still don't understand if the only difference between M4 and V4 are (one) piston size and pads.
> 
> (sorry if I made some grammatical mistake, english it's not my main language  )


The V4 pads and the M pads are different, but I cannot tell you how much different as I have never had any of the m stuff, but was told the pads are different.

The shamino brakes are very good, I have a set of XT's on my tranny and they work great. Not really super powerful, but a great brake none the less. A true 1 finger brake, but I would not use it for downhill or heavy AM use if you weigh over 200 pounds. The new saint coming out looks pretty good, but I have never tried it. They have had a lot of issues during pre-production, but I don't know if that's all sorted out. Shamino is a good company and I'm sure it's a good brake, but I have no experience with the saint. The formulas are junk, flat out junk. You should never consider formula brakes. Do a search here on them and you will know why.
I have had some in the past and could never sell them. Had to throw the overpriced formulas "The One's" in the trash which pissed me off because their CS is terrible and won't fix or help with their issues. They know they produce a crummy brake, and don't seem to care. $400 online buy, 2 weeks later I put them in the garbage can. I have run Hope's pretty much for the past 8 years or so, but tried things here and there to try stuff out, and there is no better brake in the biking world than Hope. Period.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Looks like the pads ARE larger. It's not the same pads as the Hope M4/Shimano m755.


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

What's about ride the new V4 vented disc, which has standard track width, with a non-Hope caliper, do you think it's possible?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Overdrive_FR said:


> What's about ride the new V4 vented disc, which has standard track width, with a non-Hope caliper, do you think it's possible?


Hey Overdrive, I am not sure what you're asking. The v4 disc is standard size if that's what you meant. I was told it is different, but it's the same as any other 203mm 180mm etc. I hope that helps. You can use other discs for that brake if you want, although I did have issues with Shamino ice tech rotors in the past.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> Hey Overdrive, I am not sure what you're asking. The v4 disc is standard size if that's what you meant. I was told it is different, but it's the same as any other 203mm 180mm etc. I hope that helps. You can use other discs for that brake if you want, although I did have issues with Shamino ice tech rotors in the past.


I think he's asking about the rotor thickness. The regular (fixed & floating) Hope ones 2.0mm. The weight-weenie XC ones were 1.8mm. The vented V2 rotor was something like 3.0mm. Most calipers physically don't have the space to fit a V2 rotor unless the pads were (really) worn down. No idea about the V4 vented rotor's thickness...


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> I think he's asking about the rotor thickness. The regular (fixed & floating) Hope ones 2.0mm. The weight-weenie XC ones were 1.8mm. The vented V2 rotor was something like 3.0mm. Most calipers physically don't have the space to fit a V2 rotor unless the pads were (really) worn down. No idea about the V4 vented rotor's thickness...


I think that's for the vented rotors only, not the standard ones they sell. I'm pretty sure


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

StanleyJ said:


> I think he's asking about the rotor thickness. The regular (fixed & floating) Hope ones 2.0mm. The weight-weenie XC ones were 1.8mm. The vented V2 rotor was something like 3.0mm. Most calipers physically don't have the space to fit a V2 rotor unless the pads were (really) worn down. No idea about the V4 vented rotor's thickness...


yes that's what I mean...

I think the V4 vented rotor thickness will be the same as the V2.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> I think that's for the vented rotors only, not the standard ones they sell. I'm pretty sure


Yes, the V2 fixed and regular floating are also 2.0mm thick.

As for the V4 vented rotor... the perspective is tricky. If the steel is 1.0mm, and the gap is roughly the same size, that would end up being the same as the V2 vented rotor.... 3.0mm.

Though only a tiny bit thinner at say 0.7mm, that would make the overall width 2.1mm. Pity don't have one to hand and a set of vernier calipers!


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

sorry for spamming, but this thread seems to catch the essence of Hope users in this community.

I'm interested in getting Stealth V4's for SX Trail as I use it as a lite DH machine and I think they will be perfect for that.

my question is whether you guys think would Stealth X4 be good for S-Works Enduro? I think they'd be perfect, but just wanted to hear the expert opinion - and which rotors should I get for the job? sorry for this brief thread hijack and thanx for the answers.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

ashas said:


> sorry for spamming, but this thread seems to catch the essence of Hope users in this community.
> 
> I'm interested in getting Stealth V4's for SX Trail as I use it as a lite DH machine and I think they will be perfect for that.
> 
> my question is whether you guys think would Stealth X4 be good for S-Works Enduro? I think they'd be perfect, but just wanted to hear the expert opinion - and which rotors should I get for the job? sorry for this brief thread hijack and thanx for the answers.


You don't mention your "ready to ride" weight, though Hope's website suggests Enduro/Light DH to use something like 203F/183R with the V2. Given that the V4 is even stronger than the V2, whilst there's no such thing as being "over-braked" (especially with the modulation Hopes have), I think for your usage, 183F/160R will be plenty with the V4 front & back. tiSS'er said he's considering dropping a rotor size down...


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

hey StanleyJ, I've made a mistake.
I wrote Stealth X4 and meant X2, not V4

I read that these new Stealth X2 are great for AM riding, but seems to me Stealth M4 are superior to them, as the chart shows.

I'll be defo running 203 front and 183 in the back as I really like the look of big rotors. maybe I won't need that much power but who cares - I just love the looks.

V4 might be overkill and there's no V2's anymore, so I think I'll go for Stealth M4's as they seem to be spot on for enduro riding.

I'm around 95 kg in full gear.



StanleyJ said:


> You don't mention your "ready to ride" weight, though Hope's website suggests Enduro/Light DH to use something like 203F/183R with the V2. Given that the V4 is even stronger than the V2, whilst there's no such thing as being "over-braked" (especially with the modulation Hopes have), I think for your usage, 183F/160R will be plenty with the V4 front & back. tiSS'er said he's considering dropping a rotor size down...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

ashas said:


> hey StanleyJ, I've made a mistake.
> I wrote Stealth X4 and meant X2, not V4
> 
> I read that these new Stealth X2 are great for AM riding, but seems to me Stealth M4 are superior to them, as the chart shows.
> ...


Last year's V2 are still stocked, though they are a heavy and very full-on DH brake (because of the huge 20mm brake-track disc). For non-DH, they are for tandem teams or very heavy/hard riders whom cook "normal" brakes for breakfast.

X2 will probably be under-braked for you, even with 203mm rotors front and back. If you care about weight and don't mind mixed calipers (different pads!), you can run M4 on the front and X2 on the back. There's also has the choice of Race levers (with reach but no bite point adjust) rather than chunky Tech levers.

Going Tech M4 with braided hoses... there isn't much difference in weight between that and the V4, the V4 is a bit of a no-brainer in that case, what with the better heat dissipation and tidier hose routing.

For reference, I'm ~70kg and run Race M4's with 183mm front+back on a 29er AM hardtail... and it's easy 1-finger braking. Handy when you have tired arms!


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

StanleyJ said:


> Last year's V2 are still stocked, though they are a heavy and very full-on DH brake (because of the huge 20mm brake-track disc). For non-DH, they are for tandem teams or very heavy/hard riders whom cook "normal" brakes for breakfast.
> 
> X2 will probably be under-braked for you, even with 203mm rotors front and back. If you care about weight and don't mind mixed calipers (different pads!), you can run M4 on the front and X2 on the back. There's also has the choice of Race levers (with reach but no bite point adjust) rather than chunky Tech levers.
> 
> ...


which one you'll advice for an heavy DH rider (~110kg fully equipped), considering braking power and heat management:

- Tech V2 front/rear with V2 vented rotors
- Tech V4 front/rear with new V4 vented rotors

?


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## hmpoliveira (Mar 13, 2010)

Anyone already using the new vented rotors (V4)?? Any idea about the weight??


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

hmpoliveira said:


> Anyone already using the new vented rotors (V4)?? Any idea about the weight??


A touck more than the V2. Not much at all.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

StanleyJ said:


> Last year's V2 are still stocked, though they are a heavy and very full-on DH brake (because of the huge 20mm brake-track disc). For non-DH, they are for tandem teams or very heavy/hard riders whom cook "normal" brakes for breakfast.
> !/QUOTE]
> 
> The V2 uses the standard rotor, so it's the same weight as the others. The V2 caliper is not that heavy, at least to me. Although I have not put them on a scale.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

The only thing to make the V2's heavy is the actual rotor as the track is deeper due to the size of the calliper catching on the rivets on the standard floating rotors.


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

mazspeed said:


> A touck more than the V2. Not much at all.


Is the new V4 vented rotor available in the shops?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Overdrive_FR said:


> Is the new V4 vented rotor available in the shops?


The V4 will take both vented and non vented. Not sure if their in the shops yet. Not around my area.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

mazspeed said:


> The V4 will take both vented and non vented. Not sure if their in the shops yet. Not around my area.


CRC said "middle of November". I asked them why it isn't already on the website so as to set up an in-stock notification... they said "we'll look into it".

So we patiently wait... :madmax:


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I just order direct.


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

StanleyJ said:


> CRC said "middle of November". I asked them why it isn't already on the website so as to set up an in-stock notification... they said "we'll look into it".
> 
> So we patiently wait... :madmax:


Thanks.

What do you think about this? :



Overdrive_FR said:


> which one you'll advice for an heavy DH rider (~110kg fully equipped), considering braking power and heat management:
> 
> - Tech V2 front/rear with V2 vented rotors
> - Tech V4 front/rear with new V4 vented rotors
> ...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Overdrive_FR said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What do you think about this? :


I think you answered your own question, unless you for some reason prefer the simplicity of 2-pot vs. 4-pot... or you see somewhere which have V2's at a nice discount, want something a bit cheaper and don't care about the extra weight over a V4. :skep:


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

StanleyJ said:


> I think you answered your own question, unless you for some reason prefer the simplicity of 2-pot vs. 4-pot... or you see somewhere which have V2's at a nice discount, want something a bit cheaper and don't care about the extra weight over a V4. :skep:


I asked because I didn't know if the heat management of the V4 was better than V2's, considering the extra track height of V2 rotors (-> more dissipation area)...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Overdrive_FR said:


> I asked because I didn't know if the heat management of the V4 was better than V2's, considering the extra track height of V2 rotors (-> more dissipation area)...


Hope's phenolic pistons do a pretty good job of keeping the hot pads from transferring heat to the caliper+brake fluid. Then the fact V4 calipers have CNC machines finning, which increases surface area for heat dissipation. And lastly, nothing actually stops you from using a wider track rotor (X2/M4/V4 = 13mm, Mono 6 = 16mm, V2 = 20mm) if you so wish... you just can't go the other way.


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

StanleyJ said:


> Hope's phenolic pistons do a pretty good job of keeping the hot pads from transferring heat to the caliper+brake fluid. Then the fact V4 calipers have CNC machines finning, which increases surface area for heat dissipation. And lastly, nothing actually stops you from using a wider track rotor (X2/M4/V4 = 13mm, Mono 6 = 16mm, V2 = 20mm) if you so wish... you just can't go the other way.


There isn't any issue if using a V2 vented rotor with V4 caliper, there's 7mm that are not "used" by the caliper??
( I mean issues like non uniform rotor's consumption or wrong rotor geometry for V4 pads)


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Very tempted to upgrade my special edition v2 EVO brakes for a set of these. I'm not even sure why. Although I do rip through rear pads. I don't drag the rear so I wonder if it's just not getting hot enough. Maybe a v4 on 160 would work better.

Are people happy dropping a rotor size up front going v2 to v4 or should I stick at 203?


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## nurbos (Aug 3, 2011)

Just got my v4 with vented v4 disc, pics and weight on Monday :ihih:


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## Overdrive_FR (Nov 4, 2012)

nurbos said:


> Just got my v4 with vented v4 disc, pics and weight on Monday :ihih:


where do you get vented v4 disc?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Hope, texas.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

has anyone tried the V2 back to back with the V4?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

onzadog said:


> has anyone tried the V2 back to back with the V4?


I have. I had/have the same levers, just replaced the V2's in front and x2's in the rear.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Did you stick with the same size rotors? I'm going to drop from a 183 to a 160 on the rear to see if it reduces pad wear but not sure whether to stick with 203 up front or drop to 183. 

How did you find they compare?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I did, but went up one size in the back from 160 to 180 and now run 2 v4's. They are very powerful brakes. I would say about a 20 percent or so improvement up front, and 100 percent out back. One finger power, great modulation, and zero issues with reliability. Just a real solid, well-engineered brake from Hope.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Do you think you'd have been happy with 160 on the rear?


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

No, not for me. I am 215-220 and on downhills running the x2 which is more of a xc brake it was not enough, but the 180 with a v4 is much more than enough.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm just trying to gauge what size rotors I need. I'm about the same size but think that my V2 183 on the rear might be too much.

Also thinking of putting them on the wife's bike as well but she seems more than happy with X2 183/160.

Thanks for your help.


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## nurbos (Aug 3, 2011)

These brakes are Insane!

on my scale:

Front 321gr, with sram clamp and Ti bolts 326gr
Rear 356 gr, with sram clamp and Ti bolts 361gr

V4 Vented disc 245gr
Floating disc183mm 148gr

Ti Mounting bolts 15gr x 2

Total = 1110 gr

// got the V4 Vented from my local hope dealer, before that i spoke with hope to be sure that it's available.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Well I have always been of the opinion that too much is just enough. I'm running the V4 in the rear because the modulation is so darn good, and that's part of the "too much is just enough" thinking. What bike are you running, what kind of hills are you riding?


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

nurbos said:


> These brakes are Insane!
> 
> on my scale:
> 
> ...


This is useless without bike-pr0n photos... :thumbsup:



onzadog said:


> I'm just trying to gauge what size rotors I need. I'm about the same size but think that my V2 183 on the rear might be too much.
> 
> Also thinking of putting them on the wife's bike as well but she seems more than happy with X2 183/160.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Hope haven't updated this yet, so extrapolate V4 numbers by multiplying V2 numbers by 1.15 (as Hope say they are "about 15% stronger")... http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/2012Brakeselectorp2.pdf

So comparable brake strength is as follows:

Tech X2 with 203mm rotors = Tech M4/Race X2 with hypothetical ~190mm rotors = Race M4 with 183mm rotors = Tech V2 with ~160mm rotors = Tech V4 with ~140mm(!!) rotors.

Assuming <183mm rotors even fit into a V4 caliper without fouling anything (you never know!)... if you don't want to feel "overbraked", you can drop some weight by going down a rotor size. Wifey with 160F/160R or 160F/140R (if the back is either IS or PM140) on V4's will feel much like Race X2/Tech M4's on ~203F/183~203R.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I normally share that opinion. Get the biggest brakes you can and just don't squeeze so hard. That theory works on the front but the rear is eating pads at an alarming rate. I think this is because it's not generating enough heat to re-cure the pads and is friction braking rather than adhesive braking.

It's this whole issue which is making me think of switching to v4 across all the bikes in the family. The easy option would be for hope to make a 160 floating rotor for the v2. I know they do the trials rotor but I think with all that cut out, it will still eat pads.

The wife is currently running x2 183/160 and very happy with them. I was thinking of getting her v4 160 front and 140 rear. Should look really cute. Just wonder if a v4 would fit a 140. The caliper is wider so would it clear the spokes?

Only want all brakes the same so I have to keep fewer pads and seal kits as spares. Anyone tried the v4 with a 140 out back?

Cheers.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

onzadog said:


> The wife is currently running x2 183/160 and very happy with them. I was thinking of getting her v4 160 front and 140 rear. Should look really cute. Just wonder if a v4 would fit a 140. The caliper is wider so would it clear the spokes?
> 
> Only want all brakes the same so I have to keep fewer pads and seal kits as spares. Anyone tried the v4 with a 140 out back?
> 
> Cheers.


I think you'll have to be our guinea pig, onza dog. :thumbsup: The calliper won't have issues clearing the spokes, otherwise, they wouldn't work with Hope Hoops or any other hoops!

I drew up outlines of the 4 Hope sawtooth rotor sizes with a 13mm brake track... as you can see, the arc gets tighter with the smaller rotors. I can say with confidence 160mm saw-tooth rotors wouldn't be an issue... however with the smaller 140mm one, what might happen is that the top edge of the longer pads _might_ overhang the rotor and won't get worn. If it is an issue, it would just need to be chipped/sanded off every once in a while.

The other thing is that smaller rotors will get hotter, quicker (what we're actually "wanting")... which means it will also spike to higher temperatures. For this reason alone I would use floating rotors only with the V4, more so at smaller (<183mm) sizes, as a functional calliper but warped rotor still equals dead brakes!


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Interesting exercise. From looking at that, I think they give a sizeable common area so it might work. There's only two ways to find out though. Print that out life size and offer up a pad, or buy the brakes and a 140 rotor.

However, easier way to get the pads is with the brakes!


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

\scroll for pics
\scroll for pics
\scroll for pics
\disappointment
\end.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

onzadog said:


> Interesting exercise. From looking at that, I think they give a sizeable common area so it might work. There's only two ways to find out though. Print that out life size and offer up a pad, or buy the brakes and a 140 rotor.
> 
> However, easier way to get the pads is with the brakes!


Or you could pop Hope an email/Twitter and see what they say... I've used up my personal quota of no more than 1 question per month... so I don't get "oh no...it's 'im again!".



OO7 said:


> \scroll for pics
> \scroll for pics
> \scroll for pics
> \disappointment
> \end.




Disgraceful isn't it?


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Had a chat with Hope this evening. They've not tried the V4 with 160. The thought of trying it with a 140 was totally alien to them. Guy I spoke to didn't even think the A mount would fit around the caliper to take a 140. They recommend using nothing smaller than 183 with the V4 caliper.


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

onzadog said:


> Had a chat with Hope this evening. They've not tried the V4 with 160. The thought of trying it with a 140 was totally alien to them. Guy I spoke to didn't even think the A mount would fit around the caliper to take a 140. They recommend using nothing smaller than 183 with the V4 caliper.


I guess I can understand there point of view, taking into account the intended user group of the V4. If smaller rotors (ie 140mm) are being considered, the M4 should be plenty powerful enough.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

onzadog said:


> Had a chat with Hope this evening. They've not tried the V4 with 160. The thought of trying it with a 140 was totally alien to them. Guy I spoke to didn't even think the A mount would fit around the caliper to take a 140. They recommend using nothing smaller than 183 with the V4 caliper.


Good point... there's quite a bit of space required to fit the leading piston...









... and the Hope mounts are here: http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/HopeBrakemounts2012.pdf

...and some M4's for reference:









Looks like 160mm may be the smallest (if that fits!), unless the rear mount is PM140 (if the calliper clears the stays!). Mounts from other manufacturers may provide required clearance... bit of a wild shot finding one that would work. Alternative is a custom mount, which rotate the calliper relative to the rear axle, backwards a bit... so as to clear the chunky V4.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Didn't someone on here try it with a 160 on the rear? Can we get pics of that?


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I've been having a look at the Hope adaptors with regard to fitting V4 calipers to smaller rotors. It looks like the A mount, for IS on the rear to 140mm doesn't have enough room to accommodate the lead piston bulge on the mount.

Has anyone got an F type mount for 160 rear rotor to IS mounts? Would you be kind enough to offer it up to a V4 caliper and let us know if it kits? Failing that, could someone with a V4 tell me how far the caliper extends below the mounting faces?

Many thanks.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

I cobbled this up in Photoshop borrowing one of mazspeed's images. Whilst a V4 won't clear a Hope 160mm F mount... looks like a North Shore Billet one will:









Fits "like a glove" in fact. :thumbsup:

PS: CRC link... North Shore Billet Mount Adaptor Rear IS 160mm | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, you've gone to a lot of trouble there. Really appreciate that.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

'Twas a 2 minute hack job... I'm curious as to whether it really works out in real life!


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

It still looks incredibly close doesn't it. In fact, possibly close enough to scare me away from the upgrade I had in mind. Should work fine on a post mount 160 frame just fine.


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## mishgun1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Does anyone know if its possible to use Hope V4 with Shimano 180 ice tech rotors?


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

onzadog said:


> It still looks incredibly close doesn't it. In fact, possibly close enough to scare me away from the upgrade I had in mind. Should work fine on a post mount 160 frame just fine.


I think you'd be just fine with that combo (Hope V4+NSB mount). The gap (~1mm) is bigger than an M4 on a Hope F mount (it touches).

If it really turns out (which I doubt) the mount needs some material removing, it'll be a lot less than hacking a chunk off the F mount...

I hazard a guess you're itching to upgrade your own bike... get said NSB mount at the same time, when it arrives check for fitment. If it works, get another set of V4's for your missus. Everyone's a winner*! 

*As an aside, no idea if NSB would even entertain the idea of custom one-offs... however if anyone, they're the ones that could make that magic rear IS51mm->140mm mount that could clear the calliper and frame... which was actually what you originally wanted?



mishgun1 said:


> Does anyone know if its possible to use Hope V4 with Shimano 180 ice tech rotors?


http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/shimano-ice-tech-rotors-non-shimano-system-824472.html

... though I don't see the point of the un-finned ones vs. stock Hope rotors, and if you're talking the finned Saint one, that's 203mm only, though Hope themselves have a vented one. The Saint one is a fair bit cheaper, mind you. Plus my inner-biketart insists on pretty coloured alloy carriers that Hope have.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

mishgun1 said:


> Does anyone know if its possible to use Hope V4 with Shimano 180 ice tech rotors?


I had trouble using the ice techs on my v2's. The rivets on the tech hit the caliper. I don't know about the v4.


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

I was at my countries (Croatia) Hope distributor and finally saw V4's in person.
these are some really serious brakes.

weghted them (lever, braided hose, caliper, pads, bleeded.. everything - just put them on bike and ride) - rear 380g, front 355g.

my 2010 Elixir R's are around 370g - and Elixir's look like made from plastic compared to V4's! I thought V4's were gonna be heavier. I'm getting them for sure!

Also - I was thinking of getting Race M4's - but those are small!
I thought those were a childs version of the brakes - I kid you not. they really are super small - for all those of you thinking of getting them. if you're gonna order it from the Internet, go see them in person first because there's a chance you won't like them when you see them.

saw rotors are the same weight as Avid's G3 - 150g, if anybody wanted to know, and V4 vented rotor is not that heavier. didn't weight it, forgot. held in hand V2 and V4 vented rotors, and V4's are lighter (not really a surprise as V2 has huge braking area because bigger pads).


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I hate the people keep writing without posting pictures, dammit! I need some bike pr0n!


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

sorry buddy, my mobile phone is crappy. no good photos with it.
all my money goes to bike parts now (and I ain't even kidding), so new fancy mobile is on hold.
but be sure, when I get V4's there'll be plenty of those photos to drool on.



OO7 said:


> I hate the people keep writing without posting pictures, dammit! I need some bike pr0n!


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

OO7 said:


> I hate the people keep writing without posting pictures, dammit! I need some bike pr0n!


Maybe I will post something from my new go pro 3


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

I need Wiggle to hurry up and list these so I can see what damage they would do to my wallet.


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

V4's with saw rotors and adapters will damage me and you for about 600€'s if you're in Europe. don't know the pricing overseas, but can't be lower, only higher. w/ vented rotors even more.

and I have two bikes. yikes!



6thElement said:


> I need Wiggle to hurry up and list these so I can see what damage they would do to my wallet.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

ashas said:


> V4's with saw rotors and adapters will damage me and you for about 600€'s if you're in Europe. don't know the pricing overseas, but can't be lower, only higher. w/ vented rotors even more.
> 
> and I have two bikes. yikes!


*ahem* +EUR60 if you want the Stealth black ones both ends.









The vented rotors will be expensive... though for whatever reason, CRC still isn't listing the V4 one, only the V2 one?


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## ashas (Jan 22, 2009)

yup, Stealth is the one I was talking about.
if you gonna go with 2-piece saw's, than that's 15 to 25 €'s more.

everything all together - 570 - 610€'s depends on where you get them and what kind of deal you get, and how the currencies convert those days.

and yes - funny CRC doesn't stock vented V4 rotors yet. from what I read somewhere, they're gonna start listing it in February.



StanleyJ said:


> *ahem* +EUR60 if you want the Stealth black ones both ends.
> 
> The vented rotors will be expensive... though for whatever reason, CRC still isn't listing the V4 one, only the V2 one?


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

ashas said:


> if you gonna go with 2-piece saw's, than that's 15 to 25 €'s more.


I already had the two-piece sawtooth rotors in the basket already... so ~470EUR for a silver set of V4s... ~530EUR for Stealth V4s.

There are a few discount codes floating online, so can take a bit more off... may have to split the order a bit, eg: 3 separate orders of... front brake, rear brake, rotors + adaptors.

The vented rotors will be +90EUR each though, if the V2 vented rotor price is anything to go by. :madmax:


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

Can anyone tell me what specific bore cap tools are required for the V4 bore caps? I've got red bore caps but my shop wasn't able to get the tools so I need to order them?


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

The M4 tool is the same for V4's


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## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

From the Hope website:
HTTCTA	BORE CAP TOOL - MM6 SMALL
HTTCTB	BORE CAP TOOL - MM6 LARGE / MM4 SMALL
*HTTCTC* BORE CAP TOOL - MONO M4 LARGE/TECH X2 AND *V4*
HTTCTD	BORE CAP TOOL-MONO MINI/TECH V2
HTTCTE	BORE CAP TOOL - MONO TRIAL


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

SRALPH said:


> Can anyone tell me what specific bore cap tools are required for the V4 bore caps? I've got red bore caps but my shop wasn't able to get the tools so I need to order them?


Where did you get the custom caps for the V4? I was told by Hope US that they don't have them available? though this was a while ago, so maybe they've released them now?


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

*Hope Tech V4 bore caps and bore cap tool*



Shalom said:


> From the Hope website:
> HTTCTA	BORE CAP TOOL - MM6 SMALL
> HTTCTB	BORE CAP TOOL - MM6 LARGE / MM4 SMALL
> *HTTCTC* BORE CAP TOOL - MONO M4 LARGE/TECH X2 AND *V4*
> ...


Hey thanks - saw that but is it the same tool for both caps being as the two caps differ in size?


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

007 said:


> Where did you get the custom caps for the V4? I was told by Hope US that they don't have them available? though this was a while ago, so maybe they've released them now?


My local shop ordered from the Canadian distributor (NRG in Nelson, BC). They took several months to arrive...and then arrived without the tool to install them. I also picked up the red lever blades and master cylinder lids which were in stock at my shop when I bought the brakes.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

I have a V4 caliper and measuring calipers before me, and can say that the 8-spline recesses on both caps measure the same.


Mine is all black and I'm not going to swap the caps


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## rhynohead (Jun 4, 2009)

*V4's still a good choice*

This seems to be the best thread on the V4's, wanted to see if the v4's were still working out for users? I'm planning on a pair for my DHR, 203F/183 r at 175 lbs rtr. Right now I've got a pair of elixir r's that are crap, even after several bleeds. I've got some x2's on my trail bike and love the modulation of the brake, so I was thinking of going with the V4's on the dh bike. I'm also looking at the saint 820's, but have no experience w shimano brakes and reading through these threads, the newer saints have some issues. I'm basically looking for a brake that'll handle annual trips to N*/mammoth and several trips to Snow Summit. Opinions?


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## nurbos (Aug 3, 2011)

Over one year with mine, 203ventedF/183R/ 230lbs. 
The organic pads can fade on long steep tracks, however the sintered are solid (but they lag the strong initial bite). In terms of reliability, no issues what so ever. After eating several trees and lots of rocks, they are going strong. The bleeding process takes around 2 min with no special tools.
Compared to my elexirs.. well there is nothing to compare.
If you want reliable strong brakes with great modulation and can justify the price, v4.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Not one single problem, changed pads once and kept going. Greatest brake ever.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Your levers are Tech Evo, guys?


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## dusse123 (Jan 7, 2014)

Im in the same boat as rhynohead, my formula r0's broke on me leaking dot fluid onto my sixc bars eating into the carbon, to say I'm pissed off is a massive understatement. If I can get them warrantied I'm going to go for either the new shimano saints or the tech3 v4's. I've got the new XT's and love them but the hopes look really good too, any advice from someone's who's tried both? Anyone got a weight for the tech3 v4's without any hardware?


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## geoya (Jun 25, 2014)

dusse123 said:


> ... Anyone got a weight for the tech3 v4's without any hardware?


just in case you still need this info)


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

Someone way back in the thread asked about an IS rear adaptor for 160mm rotor. A late model Avid 20mm IS adaptor will work with the V4 caliper, but the trailing corner of the outboard pad needs to be ground off for full adjustment range clearance.










The Hope F180 of course works.










If the caliper is placed way outboard in its adjustment, and a rotor thicker than 2mm is used, a corner of the outboard pad may contact the Hope adaptor as with an AVID adaptor, but less of the backing plate corner needs to be removed for clearance.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks for the updates guys. Anyway the cable routing suggested by V4 and E4 calipers is.. unconventional.


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## speed6 (Aug 21, 2014)

Dear all, need big help as i'm lost, just bought the Cannondale Trigger 27.5 Team Carbon Edition 2015 and want to replace the front and rear brake disc system with a Hope V4 or E4.

Could someone guide me best place to purchase for best price and customer care.

Which parts are needed exactly and if the floating rotors will fit the lefty and frame.
Can i use the mounts that came with the bike since i will be using the same rotors size?

Thanks in advance


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

Check me out on pinkbike. mtb4life05
Under brakes then type Hope
I'm an authorized dealer for them.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

Jumping in here, as I am looking at the new Tech3 V4's - these will be replacing a set of Magura MT6's. Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts. The main points I get, are they (Hope) are all easily re-buildable, reliable, and durable - all of which are huge plus points in my book. I am tired of the MT6's (I may be the guy with the one set that not 100%) - another bike of ours is running MT2's with no issue. But its time to move on. Just wanted to know if anyone has had issues or other gripes.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Nope, been running Hope's for years. Great brake and mine just had the pads changed to the better after market pads, but other than that, perfect. All the problems that Formulas have, the Hopes don't.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

mazspeed said:


> Nope, been running Hope's for years. Great brake and mine just had the pads changed to the better after market pads, but other than that, perfect. All the problems that Formulas have, the Hopes don't.


What brand pads are recommended?

Thanks for the reply.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Uberbike is good. I used to run EBC red pads and if you can find them, get them, but I have yet to find them recently. I do not like the stock pads and after you use any of these 2 after market ones, you will know why.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

mazspeed said:


> Uberbike is good. I used to run EBC red pads and if you can find them, get them, but I have yet to find them recently. I do not like the stock pads and after you use any of these 2 after market ones, you will know why.


I guess then that being the case to not even start with the stock pads, get the aftermarket Ebc's and bed the brakes with those would probably be a safer bet to begin with.

What bleed kits are you all using? I have maguras, and avids kits.


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

drbelleville said:


> Jumping in here, as I am looking at the new Tech3 V4's - these will be replacing a set of Magura MT6's.


I know the Magura MTs were originally sold for any application XC-DH, but the jump to the V4's will be a big one. Are these going on a DH bike? If not, you might want to look into the E4 or maybe even a combo E4 front/x2 rear.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

One of good things about Hopes is they don't need a special bleed kit.. just a syringe with tight fitting tube for caliper and perhaps another syringe with tube for convenient adding of fluid to MC.

I bind lever to handlebar and pull on the caliper syringe a lot. This seems to eventually draw out all air from caliper, just keep MC fluid level topped up as it lowers a bit under the vacuum, unlike most other brake brands. Takes me less time than the classic way of repeatedly squeezing lever and using drain bottle at caliper.


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

My experience is more favorable with OE pads. Hope V4 pads are made by Galfer BTW. The metallic sintered (no image below) is a big gripper, just a bit noisy and transmits lots of heat to the caliper. The organics are available in three compounds via aftermarket resellers or direct from Galfer, only the black G1053 is available from Hope direct. In addition to the metallic pad, the OE kit will come with the organic black G1053, or (lucky) red G1851. The green G1554T has a Kevlar component, it is more fade resistant than the black, less grabby than the red, but wears a bit more rapidly than the other two organic compounds. The green pad is quietest of the Galfer pads.










I had a mixed experience with Uberbike's Race-Matrix compound, some good, some scary fade, but I've not used this pad with the larger vented rotor yet. It is a very quiet pad though.










Bleeding tools needed: T10 torx, 8mm open/box end or line wrench, evacuation tube for nipple and receptacle for used fluid. To bleed the Tech3, set the master reservoir near level, remove lid, top-off fluid direct from brake fluid container, place tube on bleed nipple and route to catch bottle, open nipple, pull lever & hold, close nipple, repeat; don't allow reservoir fluid level to drop below a third volume. No need for syringes, vacuum bleeding is ok, but not necessary, it really is that simple. The other tip is to roll the lid diaphragm on to the reservoir rather than dropping in. There are plenty of videos on-line including Hope's web site for bleeding earlier models, the Tech3 is one step simpler.

The V4 has its advantages, the main one being its room for thick rotors, like the 3.3mm thick big daddy V4 vented.










Differential piston sizes promotes even pad wear and reduces noise. V4 caliper body has increased heat capacity too. In my experience there is no such thing as over-braked. The downside of the V4 is limited pad compound availability. Example, I like SwissStop green pads for all-around use, but they're not made for the V4.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

HillDancer said:


> Bleeding tools needed: T10 torx, 8mm open/box end or line wrench, evacuation tube for nipple and receptacle for used fluid. To bleed the Tech3, set the master reservoir near level, remove lid, top-off fluid direct from brake fluid container, place tube on bleed nipple and route to catch bottle, open nipple, pull lever & hold, close nipple, repeat; don't allow reservoir fluid level to drop below a third volume. No need for syringes, vacuum bleeding is ok, but not necessary, it really is that simple. The other tip is to roll the lid diaphragm on to the reservoir rather than dropping in. There are plenty of videos on-line including Hope's web site for bleeding earlier models, the Tech3 is one step simpler.


I can't consistently manage topping off from bottle without overfill or having some fluid run along the outside of bottle. This is very annoying, syringe top up is so much more repeatable, and you can also easily extract fluid with it when you're doing the initial fill from caliper side.

I also find it takes both longer to get the air out with the classic method, and I can get more air out with syringe (granted it's a very approximate estimation made by observing number and size of bubbles coming through caliper tube and air volume the caliper syringe ends up with at atmospheric pressure).

Overall, for me, syringe method is significantly faster and more predictable as to how long will it take, and much less messy.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

drbelleville said:


> I guess then that being the case to not even start with the stock pads, get the aftermarket Ebc's and bed the brakes with those would probably be a safer bet to begin with.
> 
> What bleed kits are you all using? I have maguras, and avids kits.


Bleeding the Hope's are very easy. Hope's website has a tutorial on how to do it with video step by step instructions. I don't use bleed kits personally.


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## mtb4life05 (Sep 21, 2009)

I second ncfisherman. I have been building and selling Hope brakes for the last 6 years or so now and have not had a single failure or any problems worth noting.
You won't go wrong with Hopes


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

ncfisherman said:


> I know the Magura MTs were originally sold for any application XC-DH, but the jump to the V4's will be a big one. Are these going on a DH bike? If not, you might want to look into the E4 or maybe even a combo E4 front/x2 rear.


Sorta'. These are going on my ASR-7, which is my trail bike. It's already running a Totem RC2DH and a Cane Creek DB Coil, so I need some great brakes to keep me on track. The MT6's have not provided that for me reliably .


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

drbelleville said:


> Sorta'. These are going on my ASR-7, which is my trail bike. It's already running a Totem RC2DH and a Cane Creek DB Coil, so I need some great brakes to keep me on track. The MT6's have not provided that for me reliably .


Sounds like the V4's will fit right in with that build. I was assuming the MT6's were on a XC or lesser travel trail bike.

Can't go wrong with Hope.


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## nightjjr (May 18, 2011)

I was wondering if someone found a PM PM 180 adapter for the V4's.

All of them just won't fit because the calipper is way too big 

Any solution?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Is there much interference? IMHO there shouldn't be. Maybe take a beefy adapter and carefully file down the offending area on it?

Edit: this is not related but I'd look for a 4-bolt adapter rather than 2-bolt.


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## nightjjr (May 18, 2011)

Actually is like 3 to 4mm interference. I am scared that the adapter could brake if I file it down that much


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Ouch. That's huge.

I only suggested filing it down because when I apply a V4 caliper to a 160 mm PM mount on a Manitou Circus lowers, the interference is maybe 0.5 mm and I'd fix it by DIN 988 washers without risk of having part of pad material ride in the air outside of rotor brake surface.

Hope makes 183 mm PM-PM adapters, maybe take a file and a facing tool to one of these.. removing ~1 mm from its mount surfaces should still leave room for caliper, and the adapters are beefy enough for some filing in the middle if the need arises.

PS
Then again, Specialized have been using 2 cylindrical spacers instead of a PM-PM adapter on some of their bikes. But I'm not sure about trying this on a bike that justifies running V4.

Does your adapter look like this?









Or more like this?


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Hope now makes 180mm rotors and PM adapters. Announced at Eurobike this past year. Call them direct:

Eurobike 2015 Part 2 ? Carbon Production, Discs and Rims | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England


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## nightjjr (May 18, 2011)

007 said:


> Hope now makes 180mm rotors and PM adapters. Announced at Eurobike this past year. Call them direct:
> 
> Eurobike 2015 Part 2 ? Carbon Production, Discs and Rims | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England


Thanx, I will contact them, I didnt know this


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## nightjjr (May 18, 2011)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Ouch. That's huge.
> 
> I only suggested filing it down because when I apply a V4 caliper to a 160 mm PM mount on a Manitou Circus lowers, the interference is maybe 0.5 mm and I'd fix it by DIN 988 washers without risk of having part of pad material ride in the air outside of rotor brake surface.
> 
> ...


I am using a 183 hope adapter with an 180mm Ice Tech Rotor. It doesn't use all the surface of the rotor, so I guess I am loosing brake power.

I am going to contact hope to check if L adapter will fit.

Thankyou very much for your help.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

The new type Hope adapter should solve it then. I wasn't aware of it either. And I just didn't expect the 183 mm adapter to need 3-4 mm filing down, after all the 180 mm rotor is only 1.5 mm smaller by radius than a 183 mm.


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## tangrip9 (May 24, 2011)

Hey yo, just looking for some opinions on Hopes. I currently am running E4's on my Evil Following but I am building an Evil Wreckoning and I'm trying to decide between E4's and V4's. I do love my E4's, hands down the best brakes I've ever ridden. I am 230lbs and with 160mm of travel The Wreckoning will be a downhill-ish 29er. I will still climb on the bike but it's really being built for the more aggressive trails that Northern California has to offer. Looks like the V4's are about 80grams heavier per side, only come with the braided hoses and are about $50 more per side..........opinions???


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

That's easy:

V4 Front
E4 Rear

I ran an M4-F and an X2-R (both on 183mm rotors) in SoCal and it was a splendid setup.


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## Mauri (Mar 17, 2010)

Go with either V4 on both ends or as stated above V4 front, E4 rear. V4 comes with same modulation but it has a lot more power in it. And the best thing is (at least for me) that the power comes out way easier on V4s. You don't have to pull the lever with full force them to get the power out. That was the reason I swapped from E4 to V4. I felt the E4 were a bit underpowered and I needed to pull the lever way too much for my taste to get the full power out. Thats not a problem with V4.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

I wanted to ask, are the two piece (non saw) rotors the best choice for the v4's or is there another.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

V4 (unlike the v2) runs the same rotor as e4 and x2. Your choice of floating or non floating. There's also the v4 vented which, due to being a triple thickness, will only fit the v4 caliper.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

onzadog said:


> V4 (unlike the v2) runs the same rotor as e4 and x2. Your choice of floating or non floating. There's also the v4 vented which, due to being a triple thickness, will only fit the v4 caliper.


Are they the best, considering a "narrow rotor" requires more piston travel? And then would one advise against Magura rotors,I only ask as I have a new set of 180/180 rotors as spares.


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

"Best" depends on needs and/or aesthetics (weight weenie-ism). The V4 Vented has excellent thermal capacity, great bite with appropriated pad compound, and mine run true. In 203mm size, most rotors have a bit of deviation out-of-the-package, and will deviate from true a little more after repeated heat cycles. The minor minus for the stable hunk of dual rings and wire center is weight.










Currently I have a Magura Storm rotor up front in 180mm, and had it in 203mm, so no problem with function, but the V4 Vented will return for the riding environment where it excels. On my IS bracket a .9mm shim is needed under the caliper at each end for optimal use of the Vented friction ring area, the Storm 203mm rotor is swept to the edge without shims under the caliper. I currently have a 1.8mm thick rotor on the rear, piston extension is not an issue.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

How do I relieve the hose twist / tension, I installed the front brake and the hose has a twist in it, and will not allow the hose to be routed cleanly.


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

How To Videos | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England Brakes > Shorten a brake hose shorten; note the master is unclamped from handlebar and unwound. With a little try & error the optimum start position for least windup can be sorted. The end point will be different with the master unclamped, so test for tension before final bolt-up.


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## drbelleville (Jun 11, 2008)

I have a pre-bled set is it of any difference? Got it figured out, loosened the outer ferrule around the hose at the master cylinder, thus let me take the twist out of the line, as it was rubbing the stem and bars. Looks correct now.


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

Restate the question if I misinterpreted. As long as the hose isn't turned downward for a long time with it disconnected, so a significant amount of fluid escapes, it won't need to be immediately bled again. The how-to video link was only for a short section, which demonstrated unclamping the master and turning/untwisting it with the sleeve loosened, not the bleed process.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

*Lever position at bite point being dependent on lever pull speed.*

I'm seeing strange behavior on a pair of Tech 3 V4 brakes with *thin* braided hoses. This must be the new kind of braided hose coming from Hope; it's 5 mm in diameter and it fits through the same shroud nuts that work with the plastic hose.

The brakes are freshly and thoroughly bled so air can be ruled out. Either way, the behavior does not look like air in the system.

The strangeness is in how bite point is being reached in different parts of lever travel depending on what speed the lever is being pulled with. If you pull the lever slowly, it goes nearly to the bar before the pads engage. After this the feel is firm and normal braking can be done.

However if you pull the lever quickly, several times in a row, the bite point starts to happen much further away from the bar. Like in previous case, the feel is firm starting from that position, and braking can be done as usual. The useful range of lever motion past engagement is the same.

Once you release the lever and wait a few seconds, the system resets itself and you can again reproduce both cases.

This manifests on both brakes but is more pronounced on the rear, especially if the BPC adjustment isn't all the way in (minimum MC piston travel).

I have also checked a pair of Tech 3 E4 with plastic hoses for this effect and, since I knew what to look for, the effect also showed up, although at a much smaller magnitude. I do have a guess as to what's going on but first I'd like to hear the experience and opinions of others.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

what you are describing sounds exactly like air in the system, or possibly a dodgy piston seal.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

J. Random Psycho said:


> The brakes are freshly and thoroughly bled so air can be ruled out. Either way, the behavior does not look like air in the system.
> 
> The strangeness is in how bite point is being reached in different parts of lever travel depending on what speed the lever is being pulled with. If you pull the lever slowly, it goes nearly to the bar before the pads engage. After this the feel is firm and normal braking can be done.
> 
> ...


Definitely air in the system. Little nooks and crannys in the lever and caliper often retain air-bubbles unless you move them about, up and down, inverted, and so on, to make the bubbles travel to the lever and then to the reservoir. It's either that or you got bad seals. Check for wetness around master cylinder seal, pistons and line fittings.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Air was my first guess as well, once the guy described this behavior over the phone. But when I tested them on his bike myself, two observations contradicted this. First, the lever is never mushy at the end of travel. Only travel to bite point changes depending on pull speed, but not travel after bite point. Second, the reset happens without change in lever body position in space (as opposed to the typical air presence symptom where the reset to mushy feeling happens when bike is turned upside down and the lever is pulled).

The levers are dry on the outside on all four sets I tested. I also forgot to add that the Tech 3 V4 set is new, and the E4 set has been in frequent use since they were released by Hope. The V4 set has been bled twice and very thoroughly.

My current best guess involves primary MC piston seal action (part HBSP109). Since it's asymmetric it may let fluid bypass itself on the way back when the piston is pushed by return spring. If this happens on the stage of piston travel where the expansion reservoir is cut off the line, this results in extra fluid being present in the closed part of the system. Further, when the reservoir is reconnected to the line as piston returns, the extra fluid attempts to flow back but the lever is pulled again quickly enough so that some of this extra fluid remains trapped in the closed part.










The thin braided hose might be a factor in why this behavior is most noticeable on the rear V4 brake, if its inner diameter is smaller than that of the standard Hope black plastic hose.


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## hah72215 (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm looking at buying the V4's, but read somewhere that they are better suited for the thicker vented rotor. So I was thinking of going V4 front (203mm vented)/E4 rear (185mm standard floating) to get the same lever feel. 

Anybody run 2 V4's with the vented and non-vented rotor and able to get the same lever feel? 

That is, if I go for 2 V4's, I don't want to have the lever have to be pulled closer to the bars on the rear (non-vented) rotor. 

First Hope brakes for me, so looking for any advice. Thanks in advance!


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

They're an open system so self adjust. The other thing is that the adjustment on the tech 3 lever would allow you to match the feel anyway.

I'm a big believer in running the same caliper front and rear as its easier then to keep pads and seals in stock.


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## hah72215 (Mar 31, 2008)

Cool, thanks! Any opinion on the expensive vented rotor vs standard floating rotor? Worth the weight/cost? 

I weigh 240lb naked, and these are going on my Foes Mixer Trail, 6" travel front/rear do it all bike. Not too terribly worried about the extra weight. But cost is adding up.


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## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

There's something to be said about smaller brakes generating more heat and working better (to a point). If you're a brake dragger, go larger. If you're pretty rapid and only brake when you need to, you can down size a bit.

I used 180/160 E4s on a Turner rfx in verbier for my 210 lbs. I had to work them hard but they never let me down. I now step up to 203/180 for alping holidays and using 180/160 for local stuff with E4 calipers.


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## hah72215 (Mar 31, 2008)

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I need to start going on "alping holidays".


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## bik3603 (Oct 12, 2018)

*Cap removal tool for free (if you have a 3D printer)*

I created my own tool. It worked for me. I printed it using PLA filament on a makerbot printer. It took 12 minutes to print. Both caps were very tight (looked like there was locktite on them). The tool worked fine. If you don't have a printer, there might be a maker space nearby.

Here is a link to the file:https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3152059


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

That's one part black magic and two parts cheating!


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