# The Battery Thread: 2013



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I thought it a good idea to start a thread on replacement batteries since a lot of people are considering changing or upgrading the battery for their light system. If you need information on batteries for a new light or just a replacement for the old one this is the place to ask questions. If you have links or suggestions on where to get good batteries ( or not so good... ) please feel free to post a suggestion.

For the sake of convenience most discussion will likely revolve around Li-ion batteries so I'm supplying a link to "Battery University" for people who might first want to read up on the technology. Regardless if you have posts or questions having to do with other battery chemistries please feel free to post up.

Likely there will be several conversations going on at the same time about different battery set ups. Just make sure you quote or mention "@" whoever you want to comment about. This will help keep all the conversations in order and avoid confusion.

*Vendors with special offers on batteries please feel free to post up. I'm going to try to keep a list of Links that offer compatible batteries that work with the standard MagicShine/Bikeray/Xeccon/Clone ...etc...connectors. The list will be right here in the first post. I'll try to update it every week or so if it becomes a popular thread. * Hopefully with people chiming in we will get quite a list going. If this works maybe get the moderator to make it a sticky. Thanks. CAt.

...................*THE BATTERY LIST*

Batteries will be listed in order of capacity, cell type and number, and voltage. To keep things more informative I've decided to issue alerts if any of the batteries listed have any disputed quality issues. The alert will look like this> ( ALERT) .
This doesn't mean if you buy one you will get a bad battery. It is just a warning. Buy at your own risk.



> High-Capacity 10000mAh Li-ion.........4 x 26650.........7.4 volts..........MS type connectors ( verified )
> ( ALERT)
> 
> Gemini 7800mAh Li-ion......6 x 18650 ( Samsung cells ) ....7.4 volts.....MS type connectors ( verified )
> ...


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

I have a couple Gemini Xera's that I use and have a few battery packs that I've put together. The most recent was this pack, All-Battery.com: AT: Tenergy Li-Ion 18650 7.4V 4400mAh Square PCB Protected Rechargeable Battery Module w/ 20AWG Bare Leads which seemed for the price a great deal. I soldered on a magicshine connector and all has been good. I get 14 hours of run time with the xera on low. (great for multiday bikepacking races where you inevitably end up riding long hours at night).
However, I was looking to build a 2 cell pack to mount on my helmet (to eliminate the weight of the extension cable) and saw these with Samsung cells All-Battery.com: AT: Samsung Li-Ion 18650 Cylindrical 7.4V 2800mAh Flat Top Rechargeable Battery w/ PCM Protection. Little more expensive, but higher energy density...
Thoughts on that? Is there a better source for these?


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## BallisticBatteries (Oct 28, 2006)

Im here also if any of you have some questions on batteries.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Raybum said:


> I have a couple Gemini Xera's that I use and have a few battery packs that I've put together. The most recent was this pack, All-Battery.com: AT: Tenergy Li-Ion 18650 7.4V 4400mAh Square PCB Protected Rechargeable Battery Module w/ 20AWG Bare Leads which seemed for the price a great deal. I soldered on a magicshine connector and all has been good. I get 14 hours of run time with the xera on low. (great for multiday bikepacking races where you inevitably end up riding long hours at night).
> However, I was looking to build a 2 cell pack to mount on my helmet (to eliminate the weight of the extension cable) and saw these with Samsung cells All-Battery.com: AT: Samsung Li-Ion 18650 Cylindrical 7.4V 2800mAh Flat Top Rechargeable Battery w/ PCM Protection. Little more expensive, but higher energy density...
> Thoughts on that? Is there a better source for these?


Good find if you have some DIY skills and the connectors. For people wondering where to get the connectors you just buy a MS type extension cord from almost anywhere for a couple bucks, cut the plug off that you need and splice the two sides together.

Interesting that All Battery is offering these at such a good price. A while back you had to kill to get a square four cell from All Battery. Still all things considered there are other good quality square four cell batteries available with the plugs already supplied. You'll see that once the list starts to get bigger. That two cell 2800mAh Samsung battery is a pretty good deal and will be hard to beat.

Thanks for posting those listings. Your recommendations are the first on the list > ( see post #1 )


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

I have the original Magicshine headlight, without a battery and could use a recommendation. I don't need the highest level of performance as this will be used for commuting. Two hr. at high power would be great.


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*Here is another option.*

Panasonic cell 4500 mah for 42.99 shipped.

Amazon.com: Panasonic Cell Open Light 4.5AH Li-ion Battery for MagicShine MJ-808, MJ-808E, MJ-816, MJ-816E, MJ-872 Bicylce Lights: Everything Else


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

texas said:


> Panasonic cell 4500 mah for 42.99 shipped.
> 
> Amazon.com: Panasonic Cell Open Light 4.5AH Li-ion Battery for MagicShine MJ-808, MJ-808E, MJ-816, MJ-816E, MJ-872 Bicylce Lights: Everything Else


Interesting link. The only thing that bothers me is the connector, which looks to be square. I own a MagicShine 808E which does not use a square connector. Tex, do you own one of these?



pigmode said:


> I have the original Magicshine headlight, without a battery and could use a recommendation. I don't need the highest level of performance as this will be used for commuting. Two hr. at high power would be great.


Well it all depends on how much money you want to spend. If you want to go cheap you could try something like this. I didn't put it in the " Battery list " because they don't list a capacity for the battery. It could be 4400mAh or maybe 4000mAh. If 4000mAh you should still get 2 hrs out of it. No telling what brand batteries these are. Buy one of these and you are rolling the dice. 

I've up-dated the battery list ( in post #1 ). A couple there you might be interested in.


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## POG (May 20, 2004)

I bought a couple of magicshines from geoman so was involved in the recall and received the replacement batteries. Never had a problem with the original batteries but one of the replacements died almost immediately - Sad because the casing/mount is really neat and now is just a chunk of useless plastic with a velcro strap. I ordered a replacement from ballistic batteries but haven't used it yet.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

POG said:


> I bought a couple of magicshines from geoman so was involved in the recall and received the replacement batteries. Never had a problem with the original batteries but one of the replacements died almost immediately - Sad because the casing/mount is really neat and now is just a chunk of useless plastic with a velcro strap. *I ordered a replacement from ballistic batteries but haven't used it yet*.


I just took a quick look-see at the "Ballistic batteries" website. Looks to be pretty much hobby batteries. They do offer a "replacement MagicShine battery" but the one in the photo they show looks like it is a 4 cell "flat pack", 
( rather than the typical square pack ). As long as you have no problem mounting a "flat pack" then it should work just fine.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I like the flat 4 cell packs for use with a helmet light. Fits more nicely than a 4 cell cube when carried in the jersey pocket. 

For those using individual 18650s, I'll give a shout out for the Callies Kustoms Panasonic 3400mA cells. They run my micro helmet light nearly twice as long as my *****fire "2600mA" cells. Much more expensive, but worth it IMO.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> I like the flat 4 cell packs for use with a helmet light. Fits more nicely than a 4 cell cube when carried in the jersey pocket.
> 
> *For those using individual 18650s, I'll give a shout out for the Callies Kustoms Panasonic 3400mA cells. They run my micro helmet light nearly twice as long as my *****fire "2600mA" cells. Much more expensive, but worth it IMO.*


Agree on all points. Yep a flat pack in a pocket or backpack works fine but if you mount on a frame it is not as easy as a square pack although back in the day I used to frame mount a flat pack 4-cell Nimh battery.

Yep, when it comes to using single cells the Panasonics hands down are the batteries you want to use. I bought a set of 3100's last year and they are worth the extra money beyond a doubt. This year I will likely buy a set of 3400's just so I have some extra cells. Besides all my other cheap/single 18650's are getting quite old. Time for some more better cells. :thumbsup:


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*connector is round not sequre.*



Cat-man-do said:


> Interesting link. The only thing that bothers me is the connector, which looks to be square. I own a MagicShine 808E which does not use a square connector. Tex, do you own one of these?


Here is the link again:Amazon.com: Panasonic Cell Open Light 4.5AH Li-ion Battery for MagicShine MJ-808, MJ-808E, MJ-816, MJ-816E, MJ-872 Bicylce Lights: Everything Else

I do have one of these. The connector is round not square, and is compatible with Magicshine lights. I think the picture shown is for a Lupine light which the same company also makes(here is a link to one of those: Open Light Systems LLC | Lupine 4.5 Ah (original 5.0 Ah) Li-Ion Battery - for all Lupine Lamp Heads (ideal for Lupine Betty, Wilma, Tesla, Piko, Edison & Nightmare) | Lithium Ion Batteries and Accessories for Lupine, Sigma, MyTinySun, MagicShine, Bik

Also the battery pouch that it came with seems nicely made. Only issue I have is it claims in the description to have a "waterproof rubber coating" , but like the picture indicates it is just shrink rapped. I plan on just using this inside my pack, so this isn't too much of an issue for me.


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## James Bass (Nov 29, 2012)

That 10000mah one says 8.4v on the website?


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

I've been using a Open Light System battery on my Betty for nearly two years without any issues. I use it most morning and it has been a great battery for me.
Here's a link I started a few years back on Open Light System:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/open-light-systems-688984.html

I know they now have a USA site, which will make buying a little easier for the North American gang.
I would not hesitate to buy another from these guys.
Woody


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

woody.1 said:


> I've been using a Open Light System battery on my Betty for nearly two years without any issues. I use it most morning and it has been a great battery for me.
> Here's a link I started a few years back on Open Light System:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/open-light-systems-688984.html
> 
> ...


This is the same brand as the amazon link above ($42.99 shipped).

Amazon.com: Panasonic Cell Open Light 4.5AH Li-ion Battery for MagicShine MJ-808, MJ-808E, MJ-816, MJ-816E, MJ-872 Bicylce Lights: Everything Else


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## lanceuppercut (Mar 9, 2010)

I decided to be a guinea pig and buy one of the 10000mAh batteries from Lt-Box. It did not work when I received it. I contacted their customer service and they had me send them a video of it not working hooked to a charger and a light. Next they told me to send it back and they said they would pay for return shipping. I informed them that return shipping costs as much as the battery itself. They told me there is a cheaper method to ship it back to China but they can't tell me exactly what that method is. My last request was that they refund my money or send a new battery. I haven't gotten a response yet.

I figured I should warn others not to buy this battery or anything else from Lt-Box. Here are some pictures with the shrink wrap removed.


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## POG (May 20, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just took a quick look-see at the "Ballistic batteries" website. Looks to be pretty much hobby batteries. They do offer a "replacement MagicShine battery" but the one in the photo they show looks like it is a 4 cell "flat pack",
> ( rather than the typical square pack ). As long as you have no problem mounting a "flat pack" then it should work just fine.


The one I received is a square pack - mounting it in one of my original magicshine battery pack holder thingys (only turned in the batteries for the recall).


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## Fuzzy Dunlop (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm no expert, but that battery looks as though it's leaking. Did you pay for ity on Visa? If all else fails, and Lt-Box refuse to refund your money, you could threaten to call your credit card company and dispute the charge for the battery. Merchants rightly fear this, since blacklisting from a card provider means loss of the ability to process credit card transactions from that company. However, as a first line of defense, I would still recommend diplomacy toward the merchant, and launching a dispute claim with Paypal. If Lt-Box are smart, they will be reasonable, and conclude that it's easier/cheaper for them to issue a refund rather than paying for the return of something that's broken and useless to them.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lanceuppercut said:


> I decided to be a guinea pig and buy one of the 1000mAh batteries from Lt-Box. It did not work when I received it. I contacted their customer service and they had me send them a video of it not working hooked to a charger and a light. Next they told me to send it back and they said they would pay for return shipping. I informed them that return shipping costs as much as the battery itself. They told me there is a cheaper method to ship it back to China but they can't tell me exactly what that method is. My last request was that they refund my money or send a new battery. I haven't gotten a response yet.
> 
> I figured I should warn others not to buy this battery or anything else from Lt-Box....


I going to assume you had a type error and are referring to the 10000mAh battery. I agree with *FuzzyD* on this, the battery looks to be leaking and would be hazardous to return. Send them another e-mail with a photo and explain that returning the battery could be considered illegal.

If you do decide to return the battery just send it at the lowest postal rate available which is "First Class Mail® International Parcel". This should cost about $11.60 USD for a one pound parcel. *Also, take a photo of the parcel with all the postage before you give to the post office. The Chinese like photos. It shows steps being done right.*

Keep in mind that they did offer to pay postage. Perhaps they can e-mail you the postage label ( which is the easy way to do it ). Also keep in mind that you did tamper with the product by taking off the shrink wrap. As such most companies are not under obligation to accept a return if the product was tampered with.

Send it back, let them give you a new one. If they don't credit your paypal or credit card you can complain to paypal or the card company. This is called doing the Chinese jig...yes it's a PITA but at least the people at Light box are working with you. My guess is the battery got exposed to excessive heat somewhere along the line. Hope the next one is better. Let's not blacklist Ltbox unless they don't follow through with their obligations. *( ** In response to your post I issued a warning on this battery ( see list post #1 ). If the issue is resolved please let us know. )*

*@JamesBass* > Yes, 8.4 volt is the peak voltage. _I am listing only the nominal voltages _but 8.4 volt is typical peak voltage for all 7.4 volt batteries. Some websites list the peak voltage others the nominal. That's just the way it is.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

POG said:


> The one I received is a square pack - mounting it in one of my original magicshine battery pack holder thingys (only turned in the batteries for the recall).


Okay, I'll edit the entry accordingly.

*Posted by Texas:*


> I do have one of these. The connector is round not square, and is compatible with Magicshine lights. I think the picture shown is for a Lupine light which the same company also makes(here is a link to one of those: Open Light Systems LLC | Lupine 4.5 Ah (original 5.0 Ah) Li-Ion Battery - for all Lupine Lamp Heads (ideal for Lupine Betty, Wilma, Tesla, Piko, Edison & Nightmare) | Lithium Ion Batteries and Accessories for Lupine, Sigma, MyTinySun, MagicShine, Bik
> 
> Also the battery pouch that it came with seems nicely made. Only issue I have is it claims in the description to have a "waterproof rubber coating" , but like the picture indicates it is just shrink rapped. I plan on just using this inside my pack, so this isn't too much of an issue for me.


Okay Tex, I'll take your word for it. It goes up on the list. Some people will like that it uses Panasonic cells. :thumbsup:


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## lanceuppercut (Mar 9, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> I going to assume you had a type error and are referring to the 10000mAh battery. I agree with *FuzzyD* on this, the battery looks to be leaking and would be hazardous to return. Send them another e-mail with a photo and explain that returning the battery could be considered illegal.
> 
> If you do decide to return the battery just send it at the lowest postal rate available which is "First Class Mail® International Parcel". This should cost about $11.60 USD for a one pound parcel. *Also, take a photo of the parcel with all the postage before you give to the post office. The Chinese like photos. It shows steps being done right.*
> 
> ...


I'll keep you posted. It seems there is a bit of a language barrier even via email so it's slow going in dealing with the problem. 
I didn't remove the shrink wrap until after I could feel that it was leaking. At that point I had decided there was no way I was going to ship it back and I'd rather just call it a loss.

I figure I've had good luck with the Chinese products and I'm about due for a bad one.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lanceuppercut said:


> I'll keep you posted. It seems there is a bit of a language barrier even via email so it's slow going in dealing with the problem.
> I didn't remove the shrink wrap until after I could feel that it was leaking. At that point I had decided there was no way I was going to ship it back and *I'd rather just call it a loss.
> 
> I figure I've had good luck with the Chinese products and I'm about due for a bad one.*


Been there....I've had a couple products belly up before there time. In my case one drop-in and one torch. Never bothered trying to return. For the money I spend I just called it a loss as well. Sooner or later we all roll a snake eyes...


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

file a paypal dispute and get your money back. The "take pics/ send it back/ who pays for postage" dance around is a delaying tactic so that you'll go beyond the 45 day Paypal dispute window or just give up. If you don't get a refund notice on sending them the pictures, file a dispute. Most Chinese firms pay up within days, if that.

In the meantime, make sure you store the battery outside, far from the house/ garage, until you can safely dispose of or recycle it.


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## Fuzzy Dunlop (Jan 3, 2013)

Come to think of it, new batteries shouldn't leak. A few MTBRers have made mention of Chinese vendors (allegedly) using rebuilt batteries (i.e. new casing, recycled cells). I wonder if this is the case with your battery? It'd be difficult to prove, but if the auction was advertising a new product, and they sent you recycled, that would be against eBay ToS.


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## lanceuppercut (Mar 9, 2010)

I bought it off their website using my Visa card, so no Paypal or Ebay to help resolve it. I sent them the pictures yesterday and they haven't responded. Up until then they had been returning my emails pretty quickly except over the weekend.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

go straight for the "I will reverse charges if I do not receive a full refund in 3 days" approach then. I know that we want to think only the best of people, but a lot of Chinese websites make a good living by knowingly selling cheap defective products and hoping that sorting out a refund is too much hassle. I've been through it several times - the communication is great, lots of back and forth, do this do that, ah I see! and so on, but they won't give you your money back until you force them to.

batteries like this, using recycled or scrap cells, are the reason behind that ban on sending li-ion batteries by air. They're clearly defective and the +ve tab to the PCB has either corroded or burnt through. This is no mishandling or postage defect. I'm sure they'll say "ah, but it was perfect when it left us, we only buy from super good factory" and they'll be lying.

next time, think about using Paypal. They may be "evil" but they're the lesser of two evils


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## spartacus001 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for posting this battery chart Can-man-do. 
This is helpful for anyone looking for a power pack replacement.
BTW do you know that size of the connector Jack for the MS light?
My version uses a 2.5mm


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

texas said:


> This is the same brand as the amazon link above ($42.99 shipped).
> 
> Amazon.com: Panasonic Cell Open Light 4.5AH Li-ion Battery for MagicShine MJ-808, MJ-808E, MJ-816, MJ-816E, MJ-872 Bicylce Lights: Everything Else


I'll give this one a try. The Xeccon battery on the list ships to HI for $20!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

spartacus001 said:


> Thanks for posting this battery chart Can-man-do.
> This is helpful for anyone looking for a power pack replacement.
> BTW do you know that size of the connector Jack for the MS light?
> My version uses a 2.5mm


No, sorry but I really don't know how these connectors are offically measured and typed. That is why I just refer to them as "MagicShine (MS) type" connectors. At least when I say "MS" type connectors most know what I'm talking about.

I did find a quick reference on the extension cord sold by D/X that calls them 5.4mm ( male/female ). The review mentioned they were MS compatible. I figure they are measuring the width of the male extension ( or the female opening ) which is about 5mm ( sorry I don't have a tool that will measure in tenths of a mm. )


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## jhymel (May 27, 2009)

Is there a reason the Gloworm battery isn't on the list? I only have a few rides on my X2s but the battery seems to run much longer than my GeoMan recall batteries ever did. I have yet to do a full run down on them so I don't have an solid run time but it's at least 2.5 hours with 40% left on the meter.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jhymel said:


> Is there a reason the Gloworm battery isn't on the list? I only have a few rides on my X2s but the battery seems to run much longer than my GeoMan recall batteries ever did. I have yet to do a full run down on them so I don't have an solid run time but it's at least 2.5 hours with 40% left on the meter.


 Right now I'm trying to find a battery that is built with Panasonic cells that is _high capacity._ The Gloworm battery fits the bill but the price ( $125.28 USD ) is out-of-this-world. :crazy: 
If I can't find another high-capacity Panasonic battery for a reasonable cost I will put the Gloworm battery on the list.


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Right now I'm trying to find a battery that is built with Panasonic cells that is _high capacity._ The Gloworm battery fits the bill but the price ( $125.28 USD ) is out-of-this-world. :crazy:
> If I can't find another high-capacity Panasonic battery for a reasonable cost I will put the Gloworm battery on the list.


It's $80 bucks plus shipping at action LED. Still not cheap but not out-of-this world : crazy:


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## spartacus001 (Aug 2, 2011)

If you are handy you might consider rebuilding your pack. 
I was able to get my dead pack working like new again. 
Here's how I did it.
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/dead-magic-shine-battery-pack-%96-revived-835523.html


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

sorry someone got a bad pack from LT-BOX, I received mine last week from LT-BOX and put down a healthy 2 hr ride last night with the 3*XML and the 4*26650 battery pack and works as expected. Frame strap on the pack's bag was nice, sat nice right above the rear shock, about center top tube and didn't move entire ride.

I think I finally don't need anymore lights LOL......see how long that will last.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

texas said:


> It's $80 bucks plus shipping at action LED. Still not cheap but not out-of-this world : crazy:


Thanks Tex. I was hoping to find one using the 3100 or 3400mAh cells but these will have to do for now.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

BallisticBatteries said:


> Im here also if any of you have some questions on batteries.


Sorry, I meant to ask you some questions but forgot. Can you tell me about the two Ballistic batteries I put on the list....what brand of cells are they and are they square packs?


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## jgmarcotte (Jan 30, 2010)

Action also has the Gemini 6-cell 7800mAh battery for $108. I've used this battery for about a year with my Olympia and Serfas True 1500, and it rocks.


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## OpenLight (Oct 17, 2011)

We offer the Magic Shine compatible batteries in 3 current sizes: 5.8Ah, 8.7Ah and 17.4Ah. Not the cheapest in the world, but high quality. The waterproofing is done under the shrink wrap with a silicone process to protect the cells and the circuit board. The 8.7 is the only size I currently have in the US, but we should be getting more inventory soon.

Open Light Systems Corporation | Batteries for MagicShine/ BikeRay -US site does not show the products that are currently out of stock.


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## POG (May 20, 2004)

POG said:


> The one I received is a square pack - mounting it in one of my original magicshine battery pack holder thingys (only turned in the batteries for the recall).


Thought I would report back that the battery I bought from Ballistic Batteries is working well to date.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Right now I'm trying to find a battery that is built with Panasonic cells that is _high capacity._ The Gloworm battery fits the bill but the price ( $125.28 USD ) is out-of-this-world. :crazy:
> If I can't find another high-capacity Panasonic battery for a reasonable cost I will put the Gloworm battery on the list.


Is that for your Gloworm? No problems running without the built in gauge?


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

*Bikeray's hidden treasure*



























Cat-man-do said:


> Right now I'm trying to find a battery that is built with Panasonic cells that is _high capacity._ The Gloworm battery fits the bill but the price ( $125.28 USD ) is out-of-this-world. :crazy:
> If I can't find another high-capacity Panasonic battery for a reasonable cost I will put the Gloworm battery on the list.


Hey Cat, since you had the Bikeray battery on the battery list and a ? if it's BAK inside, I decided to tear down one to find out for sure - we had one from a warranty claim which was water damaged. Always felt Bikeray batteries were better quality than the MS ones but didn't quite knew why. So now we know.

Xeccon Light may yet have Panasonic cells in some of their battery packs. We have extended the Xeccon 6600mAh batteries specials for US mtbr member's only. Posting Li-ion is now really beginning to be an issue. We'll keep an eye on USPS and more regulations from China.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

*It lives.*

Re-soldered the contact point which was corroded. Don't understand how that happened but it works now. Stuck it in a neoprene pouch for my personal use.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pigmode said:


> Is that for your Gloworm? No problems running without the built in gauge?


No, I don't use the Gloworm battery. Currently I use a 5200mAh Bikeray battery with the Gloworm. Rarely have I ever deeply discharged the battery. Most of my rides at night are usually less than three hours long. As such I never worry about running out of battery juice

I've never had a battery poop on me but that's because the Gloworm has a very good 300 lumen mode that I am more than happy to use most of the time.

My batteries are getting old though. When the spring arrives I will take my own advice and do a run-time test on my batteries. If I decide I need a new battery it will be a 4-cell with either Panasonic or Samsung ( 2800mah or higher ) cells.

I might also consider building my own 4-cell ( 6800mAh ) battery using Panasonic 3400mAh ( 18650 ) cells and using an old PCB from an old 4-cell pack. If I really had a need for longer run times I would probably go the DIY route.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Xeccon said:


> ..*Xeccon Light may yet have Panasonic cells in some of their battery packs.* We have extended the Xeccon 6600mAh batteries specials for US mtbr member's only. Posting Li-ion is now really beginning to be an issue. We'll keep an eye on USPS and more regulations from China.


Hey Len if you do get a couple batteries with higher capacity Panasonic cells please give me a shout.

Yeah, I'm beginning to worry if regulations will tighten with the shipping of Li-ion batteries. No problem though, if I order a battery from you just put a label on the outside stating, "Smoked Salmon" "Keep Cool".


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just received this battery from Kaidomain.
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905
It does NOT come with a bag or a charger.( So maybe the LTBox battery is a better deal...although one poster here got a bad one??)
It does have MS style connectors....and did run my 3X clone out of the box.
Weighs in a 400 grams on the nose.
Took about 3 weeks to arrive in Boston,MA
I will charge it up and get run times on Tuesday night...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Not impressed by the Kaidomain battery on the first try.
Charged it with with the charger that came with my 3x XML lamp ( maybe this is the problem?)
Got about 1.5 hours on high with the 3x lamp. It did sit in the car on a cold night...and the next evening....it only lasted another 30 minutes or so.( luckily, I brought the stock battery with me)
So about 2 hours on high.
I am going to order a MS charger from Action LED and give it another go.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Not impressed by the Kaidomain battery on the first try.
> Charged it with with the charger that came with my 3x XML lamp ( maybe this is the problem?)
> Got about 1.5 hours on high with the 3x lamp. It did sit in the car on a cold night...and the next evening....it only lasted another 30 minutes or so.( luckily, I brought the stock battery with me)
> So about 2 hours on high.
> I am going to order a MS charger from Action LED and give it another go.


That is so,"Not Promising". 

That battery should be at least be 7000mAh and giving you close to three hours on high. If it's not that is real bad. I think this is enough to earn it a warning.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Yup.

And just to be clear: I charged it( until green light came on),I rode it for 1.5 hours , shut it off and left it in the car...and then it died a about 1/2 into the next ride.

I am going to give it one more shot...otherwise it was a $25 d"oh!
Oddly...and earlier poster said he got good hours out of his without charging.
Hmmmmmm

I do have a multi meter. Is there a way to check the battery with it?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Yup.
> 
> And just to be clear: I charged it( until green light came on),I rode it for 1.5 hours , shut it off and left it in the car...and then it died a about 1/2 into the next ride.
> 
> ...


@Mayor....yes there is. You can check the voltage. Easier to do if you have a spare "male" plug with wires bared. It won't tell you though if the battery is bad or if the cells are unbalanced ( unless you tear it down and measure each cell separately ).

*Coming up soon*: Review of Xeccon's 6600mAh six-cell BAK battery ( hard shell version )....

*Other interesting battery stuff*: I noticed tonight that D/X is selling single Panasonic 18650 cells ( both protected and non-protected ). Some of the prices are pretty good. Hopefully these are the genuine product. Reviews of the 3100mAh cells were promising, 5 stars across the board. The 3400mAh cells are there as well albeit a bit more money.

First vendor to put together an affordable 4-cell Panasonic 6200mAh battery 
( or greater capacity ) wins.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> @Mayor....yes there is. You can check the voltage. Easier to do if you have a spare "male" plug with wires bared. It won't tell you though if the battery is bad or if the cells are unbalanced ( unless you tear it down and measure each cell separately ).
> 
> *Coming up soon*: Review of Xeccon's 6600mAh six-cell BAK battery ( hard shell version )....


Thanks for the info.

And please don't review anymore batteries. I'll end up buying another one. This light and battery thing is turning into a sickness. I might have to find a 12 step program....


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

*Report on the Xeccon 6600mAh Li-ion*

So I got my new Xeccon 6600 mAh Li-ion battery on Friday. I bought it for use in my Amazon special 1200 Lumen CREE XML T6 Bulb LED light. Shipping took about a week. The order seems to go on the Australian website, then they contact their North American distributor to ship the battery. It was $56.48 with shipping which took about a week. 
It is bigger than the old one, but that is to be expected. It took much longer to recharge than the old one, to be expected. Probably around 6 hours or so. 
I took my first ride on it last night. After the one hour mark I got some anxiety since that's all the longer the old battery would last. No issues with this new battery though and after my 2-hour ride it was still going strong. I left it on afterwards thinking I'd run it to empty so I knew how long it lasted. After 4 total hours of on time, I wanted to go to bed so I shut it down and hooked it back up to the charger. So it's life on high power with my light is > 4 hrs. It came with a pretty heavy duty velcro strap for securing it to the bike. It slid around a little bit at first but I cinched it up good and no more slipping. The electrical connection seems pretty secure.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*In reference to the above post:* I tested the Xeccon 6-cell ( hard shell ) 6600mAh battery last night before going to bed. It ran my Tri-clone lamp for 3hrs and 13 minutes on high before shutting down. That is about what I expected so very good IMO.

The battery was sent to me free of charge for testing purposes. I was told the "hard shell" set-up was a test to see how people like it. With the single wide Velcro strap it attaches very much like the batteries sold by DiNotte. ( soft pad contacts where the shell fits against the bike tube ) The outer shell looks very water-proof although there is no way to really test that theory without breaking the shell.

Not sure "when" these will be available to the general public. The website still sells the "soft pack" version. I'm sure Xeccon will chime in here with more details.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Looks like ewarnerusa also got a hard shell Xeccon?
Nice that you got 3 + hours on the tri clone. 
I'm going to give the Kaidomain battery another shot tonight...see if it goes more that 2 hours.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> *In reference to the above post:* I tested the Xeccon 6-cell ( hard shell ) 6600mAh battery last night before going to bed. It ran my Tri-clone lamp for 3hrs and 13 minutes on high before shutting down. That is about what I expected so very good IMO.
> 
> The battery was sent to me free of charge for testing purposes. I was told the "hard shell" set-up was a test to see how people like it. With the single wide Velcro strap it attaches very much like the batteries sold by DiNotte. ( soft pad contacts where the shell fits against the bike tube ) The outer shell looks very water-proof although there is no way to really test that theory without breaking the shell.
> 
> Not sure "when" these will be available to the general public. The website still sells the "soft pack" version. I'm sure Xeccon will chime in here with more details.


I'm confused as to what Xeccon is selling on their website, their pictures are pathetic. The $50 mtbr-special pack, is it a shrink-wrapped pack or a hard pack?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

varider said:


> I'm confused as to what Xeccon is selling on their website, their pictures are pathetic. The $50 mtbr-special pack, is it a shrink-wrapped pack or a hard pack?


Mine is a hard sided pack.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

ewarnerusa said:


> Mine is a hard sided pack.


Did you buy it through the link you posted, or did they hook you up like with they did with Cat-man-do? I definitely want a hard case battery, or at least a rubber coated one. $50 for a hard case, 6600 mAh, 6 month warranty, BAK cells, is probably the best deal right now.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

varider said:


> Did you buy it through the link you posted, or did they hook you up like with they did with Cat-man-do? I definitely want a hard case battery, or at least a rubber coated one. $50 for a hard case, 6600 mAh, 6 month warranty, BAK cells, is probably the best deal right now.


I just used the link from page 1 of this thread.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

ewarnerusa said:


> I just used the link from page 1 of this thread.


Thanks!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Well...test 2 with the Kaidomain battery
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905
And once again...only 2 hours with the tri clone.
Heavy battery pack without much juice.
I'm going to try to get my money back and buy the Xeccon battery.
Side note....my tri clone power button did turn red about 2 minutes before it shut off.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Hi All,

The MTBR Special on the 6600mAh battery extends to the hard shell battery for the *same price* - subject to stock availability. Please mention if you want the hard shell or neoprene pouch pack. In our experience, majority of mountain bikers do not like hard shell batteries like the Magicshine MJ-828. It looks good but isn't practical based on it's large size for a 4400mAh. However, the Xeccon 6600mAh is compact for a 6600mAh battery. Past feedback was most preferred to have smaller and more flexible mounting options with neoprene or soft packs. This is why we did not stock or mention this hard shell battery in our websites. We will now and will get some decent pictures soon - we have none. ewarnerusa's posting is the first time I've seen detailed pics of it.

Recent consensus is, everybody is looking for a decent quality, performance consistent, waterproof design and durable high capacity Li-ion battery...that's cheap. We have ordered these hard packs for Australia. With USA, we will supply these or the neoprenes ones base on your request - please mention it in the comments on checkout. They will be shipped from Bloomington IN as with all US orders. I will get Xeccon Light to standby more of these batteries.

We sent one to Cat for review since we're talking about batteries in this thread. We included it with the new UI Geinea set for the round 2 review. Personally, I have not seen or held these hard shell batteries. They look as robust as the MJ-6036 batteries. We prefer to let user reviews or tester's comments speak of Xeccon products rather than us telling you it's this or that good. Matt is an authority when it comes to batteries. We sent him some packs a while back to get feedback from the Li-ion guru. This is yet another independent review coming up whatever the findings may be. We are happy to send 2 of these batteries to anyone for their feedback so let me know on PM.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Attention Moderators: I've been locked out of my own thread*

*Attention Moderators: I just noticed that the "edit" option has been removed from my first post in this thread. In order for me to keep the thread current and up to date I need to be able to continue to edit the opening post so that links that are bad can be removed and good ones added. It was my hope when I started the thread that I would be able to continue to provide an easy and quick reference for people looking to upgrade their bike light batteries. I hope the thread is allowed to continue. Thanks in advance. *


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

The two batteries for user review are allocated first come first serve to the mayor and Ironbrewer. Get back to you guys soon.

Cat, you should send a PM to Gregg.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Battery question: Tonight I recharged the Kaidomain battery. When the green light came on on the charger...I unplugged it. Just for shitz n giggles...I plugged it in again and the red light stayed on for about 30 minutes before turning green.
Is this normal?
btw...the charger was the one that came with the tri clone.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Battery question: Tonight I recharged the Kaidomain battery. When the green light came on on the charger...I unplugged it. Just for shitz n giggles...*I plugged it in again and the red light stayed on for about 30 minutes before turning green.
> Is this normal?*
> btw...the charger was the one that came with the tri clone.


Hard to say for sure as I've never owned one of the batteries with the larger ( 26650 ) cells. More than likely the two parallel sides of the battery self-balanced "after" the first charge. This would likely drop the voltage down till the cells equalized. This could mean that the cells in the battery are not well matched. Hopefully adding the second charge will top the battery off and give you better run times.

Anyway, glad you mentioned this so others might try this as well. I would would even try it a third time after letting it sit for about 12hrs. It's quite possible that the battery sat in storage a good while before being shipped out. While Li-ion cells have a very low self-discharge rate it's conceivable that some of the cells might discharge at a faster rate if they are not properly matched.

*About the "Edit" issue:* I sent a PM to Francois. Hopefully I should hear something in a couple days.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

the mayor said:


> Battery question: Tonight I recharged the Kaidomain battery. When the green light came on on the charger...I unplugged it. Just for shitz n giggles...I plugged it in again and the red light stayed on for about 30 minutes before turning green.
> Is this normal?
> btw...the charger was the one that came with the tri clone.


From what I have read, it depends on the characteristic of the charge control chip in the charger. Some work like you are describing. When the battery reaches very near full charge voltage, ~8.4V in this case, the charge current drops to a very low value for a set period of time then stops the charge. Theoretically you might overcharge your battery if you repeatedly cycled through that "top off" period.

In an article I saw recently a manufacturer of charge controller chips was touting their smarter chip that would not perform the "top off" cycle if a fully or very near fully charged pack were reattached to the charger. It also prevented the "top off" cycle if a charged pack was already attached when the power to the charger was turned on.

The fact that it went for 30 minutes seems like a long time. There are differences in battery protection circuits and charge circuits that don't always mesh well. One pack and charger combo I set up for a customer would never show fully charged on the charger. I finally figured out that the pack PCB was shutting off the charge before the charger was done. Likely a tiny mismatch in voltage settings between the two circuits.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanks guys for the info.
I did the top off once(30 minutes)....unplugged and replugged and the light was red again. I let it charge for another 10 minutes before wondered if I am "tricking" the protection and it could over charge the battery.
I think I will try it after letting it sit per Catman's suggestion.
This is the 4th full charge cycle with the battery.

On a side note...I sent a email to Kaidomain telling them the battery is no where near as advertised, and I'd like to return it. I'm in a loop of "send us a video"request from them.
I'm torn between accepting that it was a $25 experiment that didn't work out....or sending them a video of me throwing it in the trash and opening a Paypal dispute


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

As per Cat man do's suggestion....I let the kaidomain 12000 mA 
battery sit over night.
As I said above: last night I gave it a full charge and unplugged the charger from the wall when it turned green. I then replugged it in...and the red light stayed on for about 30 minutes. Unplugged and replugged and the light turned red for 10 minutes and I was running out of time...so I unplugged it.
Let it sit about 20 hours.
Plugged it in and it stayed red for about 15 to 20 minutes.
Going to try and ride later....


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

*Bump charging?*

Mayor and Cat-man-do and Vancbiker,
Do you think this battery charging issue you're discussing is similar to "bump charging" a smartphone? I have done this a bit with my smartphone, but I don't bother anymore. I thought about it for my bike light battery but I've never tried it.
From the link:


> Ever since the Droid Incredible was first released, we have heard about bump charging, and many of us are left wondering what is it, and how does one accomplish such a thing? If you have ever taken your Incredible or Thunderbolt off the charger and noticed that nearly instantly you were down to 90 percent showing on your battery meter, and were puzzled.
> 
> Well, the device charges itself fully, but does not maintain that full charge, instead keeping around a 90- to 95-percent charge and showing full. So, people have begun bump charging their device to gain that last five to ten percent back. There are a few developers who are taking stabs at making custom kernels that will combat this, but that requires root, and flashing files, and all that jazz, so they have an alternative bump charging method, which goes as follows:
> 
> ...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I tried the "bump charge" with my Droid EVO.
I never noticed any longer run time...and if there was it was very small.
Spending 20 minutes to get 10 more minutes out of the phone didn't make much sense to me....


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

the mayor said:


> I tried the "bump charge" with my Droid EVO.
> I never noticed any longer run time...and if there was it was very small.
> Spending 20 minutes to get 10 more minutes out of the phone didn't make much sense to me....


I only mention it because maybe your Kaidomain battery and/or charger uses similar logic? Obviously I have no idea, but your description of what is happening sure sounds similar to what is happening with bump charging.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I honestly don't know either....or if the whole "bump charge" is just a myth.
All I do know is I get 1.5 hours out of the small stock 4400 battery...and 2 hours out of a supposed 12000 big battery.


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

What about this one?

Amazon.com: MagicShine Improved 2011 MJ-828 4.4AH Li-ion Battery with LCD Capacity Display: Everything Else


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I very much doubt that the cheap bike light charger has a very sophisticated charge control circuit. Doing something like the bump charge thing is likely just to very slightly overcharge the battery on the light. That extra little bit of energy stored probably adds a minute or so to your run time. I would not do that without monitoring the end of charge voltage. 

There is no way that I have found to get more than ~8000mA using four 26650s at 7.4v nominal. That requires the highest real capacity cells available. I very much doubt KD is using such cells.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

GoGoGordo said:


> What about this one?
> 
> Amazon.com: MagicShine Improved 2011 MJ-828 4.4AH Li-ion Battery with LCD Capacity Display: Everything Else


That is a good battery sold by Action LED...who is a contributor here.
When you buy from him or Xeccon ....there is good customer support.
Buy from Ebay, Kaidomain or DX.....you may or may not get a good battery. And in my case....lacking C/S from Kaidomain


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I doubt that any 4.4ah battery is sufficient enough to power the tri or quad XML LED. I think the Xeccon solution 6.6ah is better. Even my 2 yr old GEO 6.0ah does a good job, around 2 hrs on high and pretty consistently 2.5 hrs on medium, 2 LED's.

I wouldn't use any 4.4ah on the multi LED's unless it's designed by someone like a Dinotte who specifically runs less amps to get run time. The cheap lights aren't designed well enough to use a 4.4ah battery.

MB


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> *In reference to the above post:* I tested the Xeccon 6-cell ( hard shell ) 6600mAh battery last night before going to bed. It ran my Tri-clone lamp for 3hrs and 13 minutes on high before shutting down. That is about what I expected so very good IMO.
> 
> The battery was sent to me free of charge for testing purposes. I was told the "hard shell" set-up was a test to see how people like it. With the single wide Velcro strap it attaches very much like the batteries sold by DiNotte. ( soft pad contacts where the shell fits against the bike tube ) The outer shell looks very water-proof although there is no way to really test that theory without breaking the shell.
> 
> Not sure "when" these will be available to the general public. The website still sells the "soft pack" version. I'm sure Xeccon will chime in here with more details.


Cat,

Based on your experience, would you recommend gong with the Xeccon hard shell battery vs the soft shell?

Also, with the helmet light would the best option be to just carry the battery in a camelpak or something? New to the whole light and night ride scene. TIA!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

DRILLINDK said:


> Cat,
> 
> Based on your experience, would you recommend gong with the Xeccon hard shell battery vs the soft shell?
> 
> Also, with the helmet light would the best option be to just carry the battery in a camelpak or something? New to the whole light and night ride scene. TIA!


Both the "hard shell and soft pack Xeccon 6-cells have the same cells as far as I know. Choosing one or the other depends on your needs or riding style. The hard shell will shed water better as it looks very water-resistant. The hard shell probably adds some extra weight though. It also likely will get cold faster than than soft pack pouch.

If you're going to use the 6-cell battery to power a helmet light you would likely be better off with the soft pack ( since you can remove the battery from the pack ) but than again a minor issue as both will work.

As for carrying a battery for a helmet lamp most people tend to use 4-cell batteries. When using the 4-cell I carry mine in a back-pack ( Camelback style ) arrangement. Others carry theirs in a jersey pocket. Those people are best served if they use a flat 4-cell. On occasion I also use a two-cell and mount it to my helmet and on other occasions I just use a single cell torch. The lamp/battery set-up I use will depend on "where" I chose to ride and how long that ride will generally take.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

DRILLINDK said:


> Cat,
> 
> Based on your experience, would you recommend gong with the Xeccon hard shell battery vs the soft shell?
> 
> Also, with the helmet light would the best option be to just carry the battery in a camelpak or something? New to the whole light and night ride scene. TIA!


What helmet light are you running that's needs that much power and / or run time??


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

the mayor said:


> What helmet light are you running that's needs that much power and / or run time??


I'm a newbie to lights. I don't own one yet, but I'm in the market for one. I'm considering some of the Xeccon lights....any suggestions?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

DRILLINDK said:


> I'm a newbie to lights. I don't own one yet, but I'm in the market for one. I'm considering some of the Xeccon lights....any suggestions?


This is a battery thread...there are plenty of "What light do I want?" threads/
Xeccon makes nice lights though....and nice combo packages


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

So I was one of the lucky 2 who got free Xeccon 6.6 ah hard shell 6-cells battery packs. I recieved it very quickly. It is a bit bigger size wise than I thought it would be. It looks very well made and has a heavy guage wire coming out. Here are some pictures comparing it to a 4 cell clone soft battery pack.























































As you can see it is a bit heavier than the clone, but that is to be expected with 2 more cells, a hard case and the beefy velcro strap that comes with it. I am trying to wait till I receive my 3X XML t6 light head before I test it for longevity. I would have to run my 1x XML for too long.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

^ Yes....if you have a 1x XML light...the Xeccon will run it for a very long time. I have a Hi-Max XML U2 light...that with the stock battery, it ran 7 hours before I got bored and disconnected it.
I will be posting my Xeccon review after a few more cycles. Thanks for taking the photos...now I don't have to.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

So I tested my new battery with my new 3x XML T6 chinese clone light and got about 3 hours and 15 minutes out of it with the light on high. This is great for me. The light mounts very securely to my frame. The velcro strap that comes with it is great. Its very wide and holds great. I wouldn't use a battery this big for my 1x XML T6 light, but it rocks for my 3x. The 3 plus hours run time gives me about an hour cushion on most night rides I do. If I'm going to be out longer than that I would just go to low or medium output when I could.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

*ToBest Li-Po battery*

Runtime test with 4 sets of 3 x XM-L T6 lights and the 6000mAh rated Li-Po batteries came in at *Set 1 - 3 hours: 14 mins. Set 2 - 3 : 23. Set 3 - 3: 25 and Set 4 - 3: 26*. These are pretty similar runtimes with Xeccon 6600mAh's times using the same light heads. Are the ToBest Li-Po under-rated or the Xeccons Li-ion over-rated? The batteries were charged using our 2A charger with similar ambient conditions.

It is worth nothing this battery may be available for sale individually. We just need to have the connectors back to standard round. Most will be asking who is ToBest? Well, they are former Inton. They have split and while they share a couple of models like the NB-04 and NB-02, the new NB series are all from ToBest. We have suggested they change the brand name since it's doing their good products a disservice.


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi,

i havent seen this battery here, and since ai think It is the best battery for the price so far, sold by a USA seller, with a great guaranteed capacity, recomended for the triple and quad led lights.

Here it is, with 12 400 mah, and compact size and just 37 bucks! Check it out:

USA 8 4V 7 4V Battery Pack for CREE XML T6 SSC P7 12400mAh Capacity Guaranteed | eBay


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Lichitisky said:


> Hi,
> 
> i havent seen this battery here, and since ai think It is the best battery for the price so far, sold by a USA seller, with a great guaranteed capacity, recomended for the triple and quad led lights.
> 
> ...


Hard to beat the price! The seller also sells a smaller version ( 6200mAh ) that is half the size ( $19.95+shipping ). The only problem is the unorthodox size of the battery as they tend to be long and wide ( 96mm x 70mm ). Then if you don't have a Li-po charger you will have to buy one. The upside is the battery is setup with an extra lead for balance charging. I have no idea if the other plug is MS compatible. If you don't mind taking a chance on something sold on ebay roll them dice. :thumbsup:


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hard to beat the price! The seller also sells a smaller version ( 6200mAh ) that is half the size ( $19.95+shipping ). The only problem is the unorthodox size of the battery as they tend to be long and wide ( 96mm x 70mm ). Then if you don't have a Li-po charger you will have to buy one. The upside is the battery is setup with an extra lead for balance charging. I have no idea if the other plug is MS compatible. If you don't mind taking a chance on something sold on ebay roll them dice. :thumbsup:


Since he guarantees the capacity, I guees wouldent be a problem to buy this pack, charge it, and test its capacity right of the box. If it doesnt meet the description, can be returned and the money refunded.

Right now i cant give it a go, cuz Im in Brazil and the shipping costs as much as the item. When my brother gets to US I will maybe give it go.

I was just replied by the seller, who told me that the chemestry within this battery is the same used in 18650 batteries (Lithium cobalt). Its not a unstable as the Lipo ones. Wich is good. The conecter used is said to be compatible with the one used by magicshine 808, wich I think is the standard along the whole line os lights.

The bad part is having to buy a especial charger. But seams worth in the long run.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

In the description on this ebay battery, I don't think it said anything about a protection PCB.


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> In the description on this ebay battery, I don't think it said anything about a protection PCB.


Well noticed Vancbiker. I assumed it has one when i saw this part of this description:

Specifications:
Minimum discharge voltage (cutoff) = 6.0V, 3.0V per cell

Anyways, i sent a question about it and will soon let you know about this.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Hope the reply is that it has protection. I think it does not. Main reason for that is the statement about the "burst discharge rate" being limited by the wire size, not a PCB.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Hope the reply is that it has protection. I think it does not. Main reason for that is the statement about the "burst discharge rate" being limited by the wire size, not a PCB.


It may indeed have a PCB...the cutoff voltage is listed as 6 volts and the "continuous maximum discharge rate" is listed as 3.1A. I think there would have to be a PCB for it have have those limitations. Actually, I could wish for a little higher max. discharge rate.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Lichitisky said:


> The bad part is having to buy a especial charger.


We know the norm is to use a hobby charger like Turnigy to charge LiPo batteries. Stumbled upon charging it with standard chargers and they work fine - the NB-08 sets came with standard chargers. This was before I discovered it was LiPo inside the pack so it actually hit me much later. Been using our chargers with two LiPo packs I am using in for my helmet lights since. No problems and runtime is consistent.

Having said that, I would like to put out a disclaimer that eveyone should take steps to ensure they charge Lithium Polymer batteries with hobby chargers if possible and always charge when under supervision. When using standard chargers best to charge it in a can like a used paint can that's been cleaned out.


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> Hope the reply is that it has protection. I think it does not. Main reason for that is the statement about the "burst discharge rate" being limited by the wire size, not a PCB.


Just received the replay from the selller. Unfortunately, there is no PCB in it. He said it would limit the max pack capacity to the capacity of the lowest cell in it.

I asked him how much it would be to add the PCB.

Xeccon, I dont know much about batteries but he told me the chemestry os this cells is not the same of the RC toys, it would be the one used in the 18650, and cell phone.. Dont know if it changes anything.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I have a decent duratrax lipo charger, may give that eBay battery a shot. My Gemini Olympia runtimes have been lackluster in the cold and I feel like it it due to the current demand. My RC battery all have thick (14awg?) Wiring but is still flexible with silicone jacket. If someone sold a decent reasonably priced Rc battery to magic shine adaptor with heavy gauge wire I think it would be a hit. If they made one with a tap for a voltage meter it would be even better


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Does the Olympia have low voltage sensing? If not, I would hesitate using the ebay battery. It has nothing to prevent overdischarge.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Lichitisky said:


> Just received the replay from the selller. Unfortunately, there is no PCB in it. He said it would limit the max pack capacity to the capacity of the lowest cell in it.
> 
> I asked him how much it would be to add the PCB.
> 
> Xeccon, I dont know much about batteries but he told me the chemestry os this cells is not the same of the RC toys, it would be the one used in the 18650, and cell phone.. Dont know if it changes anything.


*Lichitisky*, please ask the seller how the battery cut-off works. They are listing a 6 volt cutoff. Perhaps each cell has it's own mini-PCB ( just like the protected 18650's ), then again perhaps they are just telling us the battery needs to cut-off at 6V but the user needs to supply their own cut-off source. If that's so then the ad is very deceptive.

If the battery has no actual cut-off control then people ( like me ) that have no voltage feedback indicators on their lamp are screwed. If you have the indicators then it should be no big deal, just wait till the indicators are blinking red and then stop using the battery.

Since my Gloworm X2 has no voltage indicators my only other option would be to hook my MS808E in parallel with the Gloworm and use the indicators on the 808E. Strange how I never thought of doing this before with my other batteries but it would be a good idea if I were taking a real long ride. (*Note, the 808E does not have to be on to use the indicators, just plugged into the battery )


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Lichitisky said:


> Unfortunately, there is no PCB in it. He said it would limit the max pack capacity to the capacity of the lowest cell in it.


A statement like the above could be interpreted to mean bad things about his product. To start, this could imply that the cells are not very closely matched. Battery protection PCBs are meant to protect individual cells in the pack. Mis-matched cell capacity in an unprotected pack will have some cells lower in voltage at the end of the discharge than the others. Possibly below the voltage where Lithium type batteries sustain damage.


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

*built 2 new battery packs*

I'm doing a 300 mile bikepacking race in a few weeks and decided I'd build up a few helmet mountable battery packs using the All-Battery.com: Total Power Solution for Every Battery Need samsung based cell, 2 cell packs. (All-Battery.com: AT: Samsung Li-Ion 18650 Cylindrical 7.4V 2800mAh Flat Top Rechargeable Battery w/ PCM Protection). Below are a few pics... For these races, I run a helmet mounted Gemini Xera on low (which is very adequate when you are in the middle of nowhere in AZ). The two packs I built each went 7 hrs 50 minutes...very impressive!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

My son uses a low voltage ALARM on his RC cars/planes, he says it should work for this battery.

Here is an example of a low voltage alarm(ebay), 7 4V 11 1v RC LiPo Battery Low Voltage Tester Checker Alarm Indicator New | eBay



Vancbiker said:


> Hope the reply is that it has protection. I think it does not. Main reason for that is the statement about the "burst discharge rate" being limited by the wire size, not a PCB.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> My son uses a low voltage ALARM on his RC cars/planes, he says it should work for this battery.
> 
> Here is an example of a low voltage alarm(ebay), 7 4V 11 1v RC LiPo Battery Low Voltage Tester Checker Alarm Indicator New | eBay


An audible alarm would be sweet provided you can turn it off once it goes off. This alarm seems to be set for low voltage ( 3.3volts ) That means it has to be wired directly to the cells. Not something the novice is going to have an easy time doing. Personally I'd rather deal with blinking warning lights.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

the alarm plugs directly into the charging connector on this previously mentioned ebay battery.



Cat-man-do said:


> An audible alarm would be sweet provided you can turn it off once it goes off. This alarm seems to be set for low voltage ( 3.3volts ) That means it has to be wired directly to the cells. Not something the novice is going to have an easy time doing. Personally I'd rather deal with blinking warning lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> the alarm plugs directly into the charging connector on this previously mentioned ebay battery.


According to the links you supplied the battery has a balance lead that has a "3" connection plug. The alarm looks to have "4" leads. Is there something I'm missing?


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## bamr33 (Jun 2, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> According to the links you supplied the battery has a balance lead that has a "3" connection plug. The alarm looks to have "4" leads. Is there something I'm missing?


Yep, you're missing that these alarms are designed to be used with 2-3 cell lipo batteries, so one pin is unused if you're only using 2 cell.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

DRILLINDK said:


> I'm a newbie to lights. I don't own one yet, but I'm in the market for one. I'm considering some of the Xeccon lights....any suggestions?


Anyone with our dental skills and tools should be able to DIY a light as good or better than anything you can buy. (I posted a simple step-by-step on the DIY forum).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Anyone with our dental skills and tools should be able to DIY a light as good or better than anything you can buy. (I posted a simple step-by-step on the DIY forum).


Nothing wrong with DIY ( although all of this is off topic ), Not everyone wants to fabricate their own light. A few years back when LED lighting was all new, DIY was the "IN Thing" because bike lights were more expensive ( and there were less to choose from). Then along came the MagicShine 808. As cheap as they were ( quality and price ) they still caught the attention ( and pocketbooks ) of a lot of people. Even the seasoned DIY'ers at the time had to concede that they couldn't make a light for that kind of money.

Things have changed a lot since those days. Now the Chinese lamps are even more inexpensive. For anywhere between $30-$50 you can get a decent light head ( if you choose wisely ) that will work and work good enough to do serious mountain biking. Your DIY light will be better ( depending on your design and skill level ) but no way will it be easier than just plunking down a handful of bills for a Chinese made lamp. Hard to justify the effort to do a DIY unless you really just want the satisfaction of doing it yourself. Nothing wrong with that if it's your thing.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Nothing wrong with DIY ( although all of this is off topic ), Not everyone wants to fabricate their own light. A few years back when LED lighting was all new, DIY was the "IN Thing" because bike lights were more expensive ( and there were less to choose from). Then along came the MagicShine 808. As cheap as they were ( quality and price ) they still caught the attention ( and pocketbooks ) of a lot of people. Even the seasoned DIY'ers at the time had to concede that they couldn't make a light for that kind of money.
> 
> Things have changed a lot since those days. Now the Chinese lamps are even more inexpensive. For anywhere between $30-$50 you can get a decent light head ( if you choose wisely ) that will work and work good enough to do serious mountain biking. Your DIY light will be better ( depending on your design and skill level ) but no way will it be easier than just plunking down a handful of bills for a Chinese made lamp. Hard to justify the effort to do a DIY unless you really just want the satisfaction of doing it yourself. Nothing wrong with that if it's your thing.


Yeah, sorry, off topic a bit. I did show how to make up a battery pack too.

The DIY build I showed is smaller and lighter than the Chinese ones, and the driver is more efficient. The housing is more of a kit than a home-brew.

The L-flex driver, or the newer less expensive Mobydrv, have a lot more flexibility than the ones in the Chinese lights. I like 5 even levels of brightness, with the ability to go up or down a level easily as opposed to the Chinese clicky on-off type. The low-voltage electronic switching should be more reliable. Also able to use the very latest Cree XML-2 with the nicest compact optic out there, for more output and a choice of beams.

DIY solder connections seem more solid than the Magicshine types too.

Here's the thread 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/easy2led-housing-external-switch-build-843100.html

It will cost a bit more, and take more time, but it's a better, smaller light, with excellent battery cells.
OK, no more hijack.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hard to justify the effort to do a DIY unless you really just want the satisfaction of doing it yourself. Nothing wrong with that if it's your thing.


I'll further derail this thread, apologies in advance. More than the satisfaction of doing it yourself for me, is getting exactly what I want. Just like many cyclists will spec their own build or swap parts around on a standard build we all have some particular preference.


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## SAVAGESAM (Jan 14, 2008)

Cat man do, sorry off topic. I purchased two magicshines (single XML) from GeoManGear right before they bellied up. I then purchased a clone from Amazon. I can't tell the difference, it looks Identical, so I assume I got a junk battery from Amazon. So far, no complaints. The price difference was so great I have to assume it's the battery. Long story...I just wanted to thank you for doing what you do and the review(s) for Leonard.


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## kittyloves2bite (May 10, 2013)

So I just bought two of these batteries and now know it does not have a pcb. I wanted to add a pcb to it but I can't find anything on how to choose a pcb. Does any one know which pcb I should order for this battery pack or better yet how to choose a pcb for battery pack. This is the light I'm going to run them with. SolarStorm 5000 Lumen 2x CREE XM-L U2 LED Bicycle Bike HeadLight found on ebay. I also ordered two lights, one for me and one for a friend. Sorry if this is off topic.

Thanks,
Megan


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## kittyloves2bite (May 10, 2013)

Heres the battery pack I ordered. USA 8 4V 7 4V Battery Pack for CREE XML T6 SSC P7 12400mAh Capacity Guaranteed | eBay. It didn't show up in my reply.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

kittyloves2bite said:


> So I just bought two of these batteries and now know it does not have a pcb. I wanted to add a pcb to it but I can't find anything on how to choose a pcb. Does any one know which pcb I should order for this battery pack or better yet how to choose a pcb for battery pack. This is the light I'm going to run them with. SolarStorm 5000 Lumen 2x CREE XM-L U2 LED Bicycle Bike HeadLight found on ebay. I also ordered two lights, one for me and one for a friend. Sorry if this is off topic.
> 
> Thanks,
> Megan


You could put one of these in line, Megan.
Protection Circuit LI ION LI PO Battery Pack 7 4V 8 4V | eBay


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> You could put one of these in line, Megan.
> Protection Circuit LI ION LI PO Battery Pack 7 4V 8 4V | eBay


My suggestion would be to ask the seller of the battery if it's possible to add a PCB to the battery FIRST. Since that battery is already built adding a PCB might require removing the shrink wrap and desoldering some of the wires. This is not something a novice will be comfortable with. Hopefully there would be a schematic drawing included with the PCB to help guide you so you know what wire goes where.

Then again you need to know just how many cells are being used in the build. I figure the battery might have 8 cells. Maybe that's why there is no PCB.

Lastly, if this is truly a 12400mAh battery and you are going to use it with a lamp like the Solarstorm X2, chances are you will never come close to using all the battery power in one ride but that's my take on it. Without a PCB the biggest worry would be short circuit protection. I don't remember now if the listing on that battery included a fuse. If not you could certainly add one without too much fuss ( assuming one understands basic electronic wiring ).


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Also protect the pack. Those LiPos are fragile and potentially explosive.


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## kittyloves2bite (May 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> My suggestion would be to ask the seller of the battery if it's possible to add a PCB to the battery FIRST. Since that battery is already built adding a PCB might require removing the shrink wrap and desoldering some of the wires. This is not something a novice will be comfortable with. Hopefully there would be a schematic drawing included with the PCB to help guide you so you know what wire goes where.
> 
> Then again you need to know just how many cells are being used in the build. I figure the battery might have 8 cells. Maybe that's why there is no PCB.
> 
> Lastly, if this is truly a 12400mAh battery and you are going to use it with a lamp like the Solarstorm X2, chances are you will never come close to using all the battery power in one ride but that's my take on it. Without a PCB the biggest worry would be short circuit protection. I don't remember now if the listing on that battery included a fuse. If not you could certainly add one without too much fuss ( assuming one understands basic electronic wiring ).


I already ordered them or I would have done that... =/ I've done soldering and heat shrinking before. So that is no big deal to me. Here is what the sell says about the battery pack.

You are buying (1) one 8.4 volt, 91.8Wh, 12400mAh battery pack for the Cree XML-T6 LED or SSC P7 headlight. It can also be used with any device that runs on 7.4 to 8.4V voltage.

This is a very large pack capable of providing 30W continuously. It can run a 10W light for more than 9 hours or a 30W light for more than 3 hours. I build the battery pack myself, in my spare time as a hobby. Shipping from Houston, Texas via USPS Priority Mail so it will arrive quickly in as little as 3 days.

Specifications:
Maximum charge voltage = 8.4V, 4.2V per cell
Minimum discharge voltage (cutoff) = 6.0V, 3.0V per cell
Guaranteed capacity = 12400mAh
Energy content = 91.8Wh (7.4V x 12.4Ah)
Continuous discharge rate = 0.33C or 30W (limited by the wire size. I can use thicker wires but it won't be as flexible.)
Pack weight: 18 oz total including connectors and shrink tubing
Pack dimension: 96 x 70 x 32mm [3.8 x 2.8 x 1.26in]
Main connector for charging and discharging = 5.5 x 2.1mm female power jack, center pin is positive (+), housing is negative (-)
Balance connector = JST 3-pin

Details: Unlike other 8.4V pack, this battery pack is built with a 2s JST connector. This 3-pin connector lets you manage each of the two cell groups independently. The 3-pin connector can be used with any RC balance charger to ensure exact balance between the cells. Pack capacity and longevity are maximized when the cells are in balance.

Construction: This battery pack is built with four (4) HPPN787196 high quality cells manufactured in S Korea or in Japan. The configuration is 2s2p (2 groups of cells in series, 2 cells per group). Each cell is fully tested and capacity is matched before assembly. The battery pack is tested again after assembly.

Pack capacity test:
Balance charge the pack to 8.4V (4.2V per cell)
Discharge at 4.1A (0.33C) until 6.0V (3.0V per cell)
Any pack that has less than 12400mAh is discarded.

12400mAh or 91.8Wh is the minimum capacity of the pack.

The pack will be shipped at the proper storage voltage, 7.6V to 7.8V. It needs to be charged up to 8.4V before use.

The Coca Cola can in the pictures is for size perspective/comparison only. It's not included in this purchase.

Thanks for looking.

And just so everyone is clear the battery Im talking about is the one in post #85 Page 4... I don't think I can add links yet or I would.

The fuse sounds like a good idea but I want the pcb to cut the battery off so I don't discharge it to much. I ordered one of the Imax bc ac chargers to charge the battery.


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## kittyloves2bite (May 10, 2013)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Also protect the pack. Those LiPos are fragile and potentially explosive.


Yeah the explosive part I really don't care for lol. The pcb you said to use will work with that light? I don't know enough to know if the pcb and the led driver need to match at all for it to work. I also don't know what driver the solarstorm has... i have to wait till the light gets here to rip it apart.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*4 - cell 18650 battery/ battery holder*

I thought this was a great find so credit to *Kir* and to *HakanC* for pointing out this very interesting battery / serviceable battery holder. 

Oh how I wish these were sold years ago.  Right now I have all the batteries I could want so no point in me buying one. Not sure if the plug is MS compatible but likely it is. If I hear differently I'll let you know. Someone be kind enough to give HakanC another greenie ( since they won't let me give him another and he only has one..). Very nice that he pointed out that the battery/holder is sold separately. To whom it may be concerned, these will sell out fast. If you want one buy NOW.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Cat those Kaidomain battery packs come with built in PCB, is it ok to use PROTECTED 18650 batteries, or must I rather use unprotected cells? (I have some protected 18560 Panasonics off intl-outdoor.com)
I would like to charge the pack with my old Magicshine charger or possibly buy a generic Chinese charger.
Thanks!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> Cat those Kaidomain battery packs come with built in PCB, is it ok to use PROTECTED 18650 batteries, or must I rather use unprotected cells? (I have some protected 18560 Panasonics off intl-outdoor.com)
> I would like to charge the pack with my old Magicshine charger or possibly buy a generic Chinese charger.
> Thanks!


If the holder uses a circuit ( PCB ) to protect the batteries "unprotected batteries" would be the better way to go. Not a big issue but I'd go with unprotected cells.

Since it was mentioned that the holder is not designed to be taken apart constantly, I would think it a good idea to charge the batteries using a standard 7.4volt 4-cell charger. While it is nice to be able to take the cells out and either charge them separately or switch them with others, *I found that changing out cells on a 4-cell holder to be quite tedious. ( * Note, I own a 4-cell holder just not this particular one ) If you can keep the cells inside the housing and charge them without taking them out that is the easier way to go.

User beware though, cell holders can be problematic. Springs and contacts can lose their tension over time. This could cause unexpected power outages. Every once in a while it will necessary to make adjustments and to deoxidize the contacts.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

_CAT:"Since it was mentioned that the holder is not designed to be taken apart constantly, I would think it a good idea to charge the batteries using a standard 7.4volt 4-cell charger."_
Is there a specific generic Chinese charger that you would recommend? I don't trust my old Magicshine charger, currently made my own 4 protected 18650 cell battery pack that requires me to remove the cells and charge them separately from the pack. This can get a bit tedious, so would prefer an external 8.4volt charger.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> _CAT:"Since it was mentioned that the holder is not designed to be taken apart constantly, I would think it a good idea to charge the batteries using a standard 7.4volt 4-cell charger."_
> Is there a specific generic Chinese charger that you would recommend? I don't trust my old Magicshine charger, currently made my own 4 protected 18650 cell battery pack that requires me to remove the cells and charge them separately from the pack. This can get a bit tedious, so would prefer an external 8.4volt charger.


Oddly enough the only chargers I've ever had a problem with are the one's designed to charge single 18650 cells. I've had two of those go up. Never had a problem with any multi-cell 7.4 volt charger. If you live in the USA you could just order one from ActionLED and be done with it. The cheaper generic Chinese chargers I'd stay away. from if I were you. Nothing wrong with the MagicShine chargers as long as it is one of the ones sold with the newer models. If you have one of the original models then yeah, I wouldn't trust that either.

( edit * Goatman, If you still live in South Africa you could order a charger from Xeccon Revolution. Just make sure you get one with the right wall plug. ) :thumbsup:


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## BallisticBatteries (Oct 28, 2006)

I second what Cat man do said!!!


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

First: Ordered the 4400Ah 4 cell battery and 1a charger for Xeccon, and got a message they could not complete order and were sending a refund, without specifying any reason why. Both items are indicated as in stock.

EDIT: Just got notice the problem is shipping batteries by air ( I live in HI).

Are the magicshine batts/chargers at Action of the same quality/safety?

Second: Would the 2a charger be appropriate or even better for such batteries? Advantages, disadvantages?

Third: Below is a steel case for a circular saw I'm thinking about using for indoor charging. Any thoughts on that, and maybe a possible need for venting to relieve possible compression?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pigmode said:


> First: Ordered the 4400Ah 4 cell battery and 1a charger for Xeccon, and got a message they could not complete order and were sending a refund, without specifying any reason why. Both items are indicated as in stock.
> 
> EDIT: Just got notice the problem is shipping batteries by air ( I live in HI).
> 
> ...


The air courier for Xeccon probably doesn't ship directly to Hawaii. Likely there is no air relay from continental USA to Hawaii. Anything ordered from ActionLED should be fine.

About the charger; would need to see the link. If this is a charger designed to charge a 7.4 volt battery then I'm assuming that the current splits in the parallel battery configuration and each cell sees 1A. This is the maximum recommended charging current for 18650 cells and should be fine. If you want fast charging, this should work.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

pigmode said:


> First: Ordered the 4400Ah 4 cell battery and 1a charger for Xeccon, and got a message they could not complete order and were sending a refund, without specifying any reason why. Both items are indicated as in stock.
> 
> EDIT: Just got notice the problem is shipping batteries by air ( I live in HI).
> 
> ...


Hi Pigmode, thanks for the updated clarification. We did reply you with an explanation within minutes of the order. Sometimes our updates end up in the JunkMail folder. We communicate and talk a lot. I don't think anybody doubts that. Shipping Lithium batteries by air has been a real challenge since Jan this year. There were problems and restrictions before but it suddenly became a real problem with IATA after the fires in the Boeing 787 Dreamliners. Since then the requirements goal post has been shifting so erratically that now most carriers out of China like DHL, FedEX, UPS will send the items back the moment they detect Li-ion inside. Things are going to get worse, not better.

Currently the problems are sending from China, and worse, if it's heading to the USA. To other countries it's easier, for now. If it's shipping just a battery pack by itself, forget it. Nobody will legitimately ship it for you. It used to be ok if sent in a set, now that's out too. It can only be sent if it's installed in the equipment. Lets see when this changes.

We were able to send items ordered lately by mtbr members in the US mainland because we've send the items without batteries and raided Bloomington IN's battery stock to power those lights. I am sure at least one customer will acknowledge this on mtbr soon. USPS is getting very restrictive too so I don't necessarily agree it will be easier for a US seller to ship to HI by air. We have plans to deal with this enduring problem soon.

2A chargers charge twice as fast but 1A is just a little bit better for the batteries. A slow TLC charge is good for Lithium batteries. Having said that, we supply 2A in AU. Riders have no patience with overnight charging. The aim is a full charge in about 3-4 hours for a 6600mAh pack.

Coincidental but your charging enclosure looks very much like the box used to house the Lithiums in the Dreamliners. An old paint can will suffice if I was to suggest one. Personally I don't use them. I just charge them under supervision. Charging Li-ion is generally safe but bear in mind this is also dependent on the charger and protection circuit working 100%. It may not have anything to do with the batteries persay. I think the Dreamliner demonstrates no matter how much state-of-the-art tech the plane has, the whole thing got undone by possibly small faulty circuit boards.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*New Samsung and Sanyo 18650's : Fasttech super deals*

In keeping up to date on the battery world I noticed yesterday that Fasttech is quickly drawing a lot of attention from people in the portable LED lighting world. Fasttech is offering lots of things at really decent prices.

These Samsung protected 3000mAh cells are just an example. A month ago I paid $11 for "one" Panasonic unprotected 3100mAh cell ( plus shipping ). Fasttech has these Samsungs for $13.31 FOR TWO ( no shipping cost ). That's too good a deal to ignore. They also sell a lot of other 18650 cells made by both Samsung and Sanyo. These are not knock-offs these are the real deal, at least that is what I'm hearing from different forums on the net.

Lots of goodies being sold over at Fasttech AND AT DECENT PRICES. If you buy 18650's from them just be sure you don't order the Samsung cells that have the *4.35 peak voltage* upgrade UNLESS you have the special charger to charge the cells. Yes, Fasttech sells those too. Matter of fact I may decide to try those out myself. The charger cost about $8 so not a big deal. For the time being though I'll likely stick to cells that peak out at 4.2 volts. If you're into torches or 18650 cell holders, Fasttech is the new player on the block for LED Lighting/supplies.

I have a feeling this might be one of the reasons why Xeccon has decided not to use Panasonic cells..:ihih: Hopefuly this type of competition in the battery world will help lower prices on the Panasonic's as well. :thumbsup:


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks for the update, Cat! Just bought a flashlight to use with my recycled laptop cells, but if I did not have these, I would buy those 2 for sure. Also, buying a nice solid case (saw it somewhere, cant remember where...maybe kd?) to store 4 of those 18650 cells is a great option for me. Cheap, good cell holder with very good cells and plenty of runtime on a not so bulky battery holder.


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## Biobanker (Jan 30, 2010)

*Warning!*



Cat-man-do said:


> I thought this was a great find so credit to *Kir* and to *HakanC* for pointing out this very interesting battery / serviceable battery holder.
> 
> Oh how I wish these were sold years ago.  Right now I have all the batteries I could want so no point in me buying one. Not sure if the plug is MS compatible but likely it is. If I hear differently I'll let you know. Someone be kind enough to give HakanC another greenie ( since they won't let me give him another and he only has one..). Very nice that he pointed out that the battery/holder is sold separately. To whom it may be concerned, these will sell out fast. If you want one buy NOW.


I decided to try this - the page shows that it will ship in 1-3 days but my order confirmation shows that it is back ordered.

BEWARE!


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

That was the holder I was referring to in my last post lol. Thanks for reminding me - it is saved now, in case I ever need one.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> That was the holder I was referring to in my last post lol. Thanks for reminding me - it is saved now, in case I ever need one.


Like I said before, stuff like this sells fast. You might have to wait a couple months to get it but it will come. I just hope it's worth the wait.


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## Biobanker (Jan 30, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Like I said before, stuff like this sells fast. You might have to wait a couple months to get it but it will come. I just hope it's worth the wait.


So it seems, but I need a battery now! What would you order to power a 1st gen Magic Shine 816 (the bar mounted triple LED so-said 1400 lumen)?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Biobanker said:


> So it seems, but I need a battery now! What would you order to power a 1st gen Magic Shine 816 (the bar mounted triple LED so-said 1400 lumen)?


If urgency is the main issue Action LED has a good reputation for getting stuff out fast to people in North America. This is a good battery, quality cells, the only other thing to worry about is duty fees to Canada.


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## Biobanker (Jan 30, 2010)

My backordered battery with holder (http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564) has apparently shipped.

I will let you all know 1) if it arrives and 2) how it works when it does. For $17, cant hurt to give it a go I figure!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Ok guys,
I will try to do the job and post a review on this hyped battery holder from Kaidomain: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564

First some photos to get a feeling.... :eekster:


























Ok, now the facts:
1. Plug is not Magicshine compatible! :madman:
2. 18650 cells inside are crap - whole pack got about 2500mAh (instead the mentioned 4800mAh!) - I was expecting this, so not a problem from this side!
3. discharge cutoff measured at 4,8V
4. I was not able to test the overcharge cutoff :nono: - tested until 8,8V then aborted the test
5. wouldn't say it is dive proof but should withstand some rain
6. screws shouldn't be opend too often - screw holes are not the best

Would say it is sturdy battery holder with some cons - but it should do the trick for us DIY'folks!

PS: mayby the overcharge protection test can be done from someone who has hopefully more luck......


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## Biobanker (Jan 30, 2010)

My battery also arrived.

How are you handling the plug? I want to connect it to Magicshines...and although I can get power to the light, it is not the correct plug.

Not sure how I would check the overcharge protection. That makes me worried!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

cut the cable and solder a magicshine compatible onto it!
Other possibility I can think of is to totally pull out the existing cable from the battery compartment and connect a magicshine cable by soldering it to the green pcb!

anyone tested the overcharge protection yet?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Received the same battery pack from Kaidomain, tried to charge it on my Imax.
Charging went to 0.4A current and then protection pcb in battery pack activated ("connection break" on display). Thats usually a sign of unbalanced battery.
Quickly opened it, measured voltage on cells...one pair was at 4.28V, another at 3.98V. Thats the overcharge protection at 4.3v and it works on my battery pack.
So basically one pair has way lower capacity than another and gets overcharged. If you try to use it like this - you'll quickly kill overcharged pair and since second pair is not getting charged to maximum capacity you'll get ~2000-2500mAh total capacity. If only these packs came with balance lead...

Gotta measure capacity of each cell and post the result here in a few days, but yeah - consider this a battery holder, not a battery pack. It really needs a quality cells replacement.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Kir said:


> Received the same battery pack from Kaidomain, tried to charge it on my Imax.
> Charging went to 0.4A current and then protection pcb in battery pack activated ("connection break" on display). Thats usually a sign of unbalanced battery.
> Quickly opened it, measured voltage on cells...one pair was at 4.28V, another at 3.98V. Thats the overcharge protection at 4.3v and it works on my battery pack.
> So basically one pair has way lower capacity than another and gets overcharged. If you try to use it like this - you'll quickly kill overcharged pair and since second pair is not getting charged to maximum capacity you'll get ~2000-2500mAh total capacity. If only these packs came with balance lead...
> ...


Kir,

If you could post some possible solutions and or some suggested replacement cells, it would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Well thats easy.
$10.58 Authentic Sanyo UR18650FM 18650 2600mAh 3.7V Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$8.59 Authentic Samsung ICR18650-26F 18650 3.7V 2600mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$8.78 Authentic LG ICR18650B4 18650 3.6V 2600mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - min capacity 2500mAh / random color / with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
Any of these cells will give you about 5000-5200mAh battery. Sanyo will hold a higher voltage under load, recommended for 3-4 XML lights or for using 2 lights with 1 battery pack.

If you want higher capacity then use these:
$14.79 Panasonic NCR18650B Rechargeable 3400mAh 3.7V 18650 Lithium Batteries 2-pack - authentic cells / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$12.74 Panasonic NCR18650A Rechargeable 3100mAh 3.7V 18650 Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - flat top / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$11.66 Panasonic NCR18650 Rechargeable 2900mAh 3.7V 18650 Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - authentic cells / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
Only Panasonic cells have capacity higher than 2600mAh while still using 4.2v charge voltage. 3400mAh is the highest capacity 18650 atm, but they're expensive.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Hey Kir great prices. Is FastTech reliable? I was looking through their site for a good 2S2P battery holder with good and reliable overcharge and discharge protection. Anybody have any ideas for where to get one.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Very reliable, its one of the best sites with electronic components. You may find these batteries a bit cheaper on aliexpress, but fasttech offers more choices and guaranteed quality. Also use "BLF" or "CPF" coupon at checkout for small discount 
$6.15 2S2P 7.4V 18650 Holder with Battery Build-in PCM Protection Circuit Module at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping - holder.
$4.15 2S1P 2*18650 7.4V Holder Case Battery Li-Ion PCM Protection Circuit Module - max. battery length 67mm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping this one may also work, i use protection PCB from them for building my battery packs.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kir said:


> $6.15 2S2P 7.4V 18650 Holder with Battery Build-in PCM Protection Circuit Module at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping - holder.
> $4.15 2S1P 2*18650 7.4V Holder Case Battery Li-Ion PCM Protection Circuit Module - max. battery length 67mm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping this one may also work, i use protection PCB from them for building my battery packs.


Yea Fasttech has proofed itself as a reliable seller!

Hey Kir, these protection pcb's from the holders - how reliable are they?
Heard somewhere that they die after some time or just stopped working?
Considering to use this holders more often! (have already some on my desk...) :eekster:
But if the pcb is known to be not that reliable it doesn't make sense...:madman:


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

But under the specs it says

"Over charge detection voltage 4.25V±0.025V"

that doesn't seem like it would work for a 7.4 volt setup. Does it detect charging on individual cells??


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

They work fine for me, haven't had any of them die yet.

And yes, of course they detect voltage on every cell in series - thats the point of protection pcb. Even chinese batteries have same pcb in them with 3 wires like this:
https://i.imgur.com/BeotWhX.jpg
Wire on the left is used to detect voltage on each pair of cells.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

The cheap battery pack starts to look a little expensive when you factor in new cells, pcb and lead - you end up paying $17.40 for the aluminium box.

I am thinking I might just modify one of these 1pc 18650 Battery Case 2 x Parallel Connection DIY Case | eBay to be 2s1p, add a pcb, some 3400 Panasonics and a magicshine lead & you are good to go


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

New pcb? New lead? This battery pack already had protection pcb built-in. And of course it has power lead, you may add the balance lead though - but it cost 50 cents or so.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

find_bruce said:


> The cheap battery pack starts to look a little expensive when you factor in new cells, pcb and lead - you end up paying $17.40 for the aluminium box.
> 
> *I am thinking I might just modify one of these 1pc 18650 Battery Case 2 x Parallel Connection DIY Case | eBay to be 2s1p, add a pcb, some 3400 Panasonics and a magicshine lead & you are good to go*


Look Bruce, you don't want to do that. Makes no sense to buy the best batteries available and then slap them into a piece of plastic junk. You'd be better off buying the cell holders from Fasttech or BatterySpace. Personally I don't like the 4 cell flat packs. I'd buy two of the 2-cell series packs, glue them together to make a 4-square and then wire them in parallel using a MagicShine type connector. Secondly you have to add a strap to keep the cells from falling out. Then just buy a cheap battery bag from almost anywhere.

Like I said before, ( having used a cell holder before ), it seems like a good idea at first because you can buy 18650 cells separately at really decent prices. The problem is that you will really get tired of removing the cells if you want to charge them separately. You can try charging them like other ( soldered ) packs but don't be surprised if that doesn't work so great. Since the cells in holders are connected only by friction there can be slight voltage drops at the contact points if the cells are not making really good contact with the connectors. This could throw off the balancing action of the PCB. This is why if you use holders it is better to charge the cells separately. After a while it will become a PITA. So much easier to just plug something in. Then again maybe I'm just lazy.

Anyway, you won't really see a price advantage until you start to buy your second set of batteries. Of course that's only if you continue to use the holder.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I'll second Cat's remarks. My experience with battery holders using coil springs, while limited, was poor. The spring allows the battery to bounce off the fixed contact and break the circuit. Depending on your light that makes it turn off or switch modes or maybe just flicker. If you want to use holders get the ones available through Digikey. They have a formed springy sheetmetal contact on each end of the cell. I use 3 packs made with them and never had a problem. More money than the ebay ones, but I am certain you'll be happier with the performance.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

A few quick points

I agree it is preferable to solder a pack rather than using springs - I was referring to the kaidoman box above which also uses springs.

I would prefer to use 2 quality cells to get 3400 mAh than 4 crappy ones to get 4400 mAh. YMMV

CatMan wiring 2 series holders together is the wrong way round - much better to get 2 parallel holders and wire them in series - for the reasons touched on in this thread

Kir the reason for changing the cable is that the plug is different from the typical magicshine plug.

Personally I would not be happy with a PCB like that tested by Whitedog1 & failed to recognise overcharge at 8.8v YMMV


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Cut off 0.5cm of extra rubber from plug and it becomes macigshine compatible. All these lights use 5.5x2.1mm connectors, just the shape is a bit different.
My battery charger is very reliable so i don't care about overcharge protection (which was actually working on my battery pack).


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kir said:


> Received the same battery pack from Kaidomain, tried to charge it on my Imax.
> Charging went to 0.4A current and then protection pcb in battery pack activated ("connection break" on display). Thats usually a sign of unbalanced battery.
> Quickly opened it, measured voltage on cells...one pair was at 4.28V, another at 3.98V. Thats the overcharge protection at 4.3v and it works on my battery pack.


after this info and


find_bruce said:


> Personally I would not be happy with a PCB like that tested by Whitedog1 & failed to recognise overcharge at 8.8v YMMV


i disassambled the battery pack again and manually disbalanced (4,2/3,8v) the cells! :nono: Then rebuild the pack and connected it to a magicshine carger.
And...... it quickly cuts off charging after connecting - so I assume that there is some working overcharge protection!! :eekster:
Can not explain why in the other test with my Hobby charger the voltage goes up to 8.8V without shutdown! (maybe because i did the test in NiMh mode....:madman

Hey Kir any Info according the capacity measurements?


Kir said:


> Gotta measure capacity of each cell and post the result here in a few days, but yeah - consider this a battery holder, not a battery pack. It really needs a quality cells replacement.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Measured 2 cells so far, 1100 and 1150mAh at 1A discharge to 3V. 
4 x 18650 Battery Set for Bicycle Light-in Charger from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com - i bought it from ali and they actually specify "2400mAh" capacity, so it was expected 
Still a good holder though, just don't forget to replace the cells.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks, for the info and the find on aliexpress!!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Kir said:


> If you want higher capacity then use these:
> $14.79 Panasonic NCR18650B Rechargeable 3400mAh 3.7V 18650 Lithium Batteries 2-pack - authentic cells / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
> $12.74 Panasonic NCR18650A Rechargeable 3100mAh 3.7V 18650 Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - flat top / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
> $11.66 Panasonic NCR18650 Rechargeable 2900mAh 3.7V 18650 Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - authentic cells / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
> Only Panasonic cells have capacity higher than 2600mAh while still using 4.2v charge voltage. 3400mAh is the highest capacity 18650 atm, but they're expensive.


I bought the Panasonic 3400mAh batteries off Fasttech and they did NOT fit into the Kaidomain holder....I tried many times and eventually had to reinsulate them as the shrinkwrapped plastic had torn off in places. I also removed any sharp edges on the thread channels of the battery holder. The balancing wire also came off it's soldered end.
This project has been a failure for me, wish I had known that these expensive batteries would not fit before I bought them....:madman::madmax:

Fasttech is certainly a reliable reseller.

Thanks to Kir for all the useful info posted!!!


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

That sucks - thanks for sharing this information. So they came with a larger diameter than typical cells?


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

The cells that were already in this battery holder fitted fine.
The new Panasonic 3400mAh ones did not fit.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

NCR18650B have 18.4-18.6mm diameter, so they're just a bit over the spec. 
But they DO fit in kaidomain holder, here is a pic:

You have to carefully insert them as there is very little space on the sides, but they do fit nicely.
And you have to use only original panasonic flat top cells! Protected ones will be too long, button-top ones will have second layer of shrink tube and will be too wide to insert into the holder.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Thanks for the photo Kir, those are the exact same Panasonic batteries I tried to fit.
I should have been more careful....
Agree, must be flat top to fit too.
Might just order some narrower diameter cheaper 18650's and try again!
Fasttech does list the diameters of cells and the 3400mAh Panasonic's are the widest.


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks for all this very useful information Kir - I am planning to do the same upgrade after I receive my new light and hope to have more luck than goatman.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

confirmed - NCR18650B do fit nicely! I also have them in the holder!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Good news Whitedog I think I should have been more careful during the fitting process!
Have ordered some 2900mAh narrower diameter Panasonics off Fasttech that I will fit instead...


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## lessizmore (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi 
I am having a few question regarding this yellow aluminum battery holder sold on Aliexpress. When asking the seller about the battery size, the seller told be the batteries cannot be removed? Is it true? Does someone ordered it from this website? 
However it is possible to change the batteries, does 18.4x69mm batteries fit in this holder?


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## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

Kir said:


> NCR18650B have 18.4-18.6mm diameter, so they're just a bit over the spec.
> But they DO fit in kaidomain holder, here is a pic:
> 
> You have to carefully insert them as there is very little space on the sides, but they do fit nicely.
> And you have to use only original panasonic flat top cells! Protected ones will be too long, button-top ones will have second layer of shrink tube and will be too wide to insert into the holder.


Hi Kir,
nice combination! I plan a similar setup when i receive my light. Which kind of charger do you use for those pricey batteries?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

I use Imax B6 for all my li-ion batteries, but you can use any charger like the standart chinese chargers for these lights - usually they work fine.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I know this has been asked before but where can I get 18650 Panasonics and feel comfortable they are the real thing.

Thx


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Fasttech.com, search for "panasonic 18650"


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Has anyone tried using only two batteries in this? Making it a 2S1P.


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## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

Kir said:


> I use Imax B6 for all my li-ion batteries, but you can use any charger like the standart chinese chargers for these lights - usually they work fine.


Thanks for the infos! So there should be no danger of burning, melting or exploding batteries with the standard chinese charger? ;-)

In a earlier post you mentioned to add a balance lead to this battery pack. I´m a totally noob on this topic... how can I make this?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

pucked up said:


> Has anyone tried using only two batteries in this? Making it a 2S1P.


It will work, but why do you want to do this?



tish! said:


> Thanks for the infos! So there should be no danger of burning, melting or exploding batteries with the standard chinese charger? ;-)
> In a earlier post you mentioned to add a balance lead to this battery pack. I´m a totally noob on this topic... how can I make this?


No, the worst thing that could happed is overcharging of cells if you leave it connected to the charger for a long time - but protection PCB in the battery pack should prevent it. Still you should disconnect it from charger when its finished charging (green led lights up on charger), don't leave it connected.

Balance lead will look like this (another battery pack with NCR18650Bs that I made for my friend):

You have to solder it inside the battery pack to the protection pcb and cut a small hole in the plastic to route the wires. I can make a picture that shows where you have to solder the wires, but you'll need some soldering skills for this - points are tiny


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Balancing charge is not required too often: in my practice, the battery comes out of balance after ~1 - 1.5 year of use. As for the holder mentioned above - I don't see any point drilling it to add balance leads: it it not a battery pack but just a holder, and IMHO it's more logical to periodically charge the cells in common 4-slot (or 2-slot) charger...


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Kir said:


> It will work, but why do you want to do this?


I have more lights than batteries and sometimes when out on a group ride I would split the batteries up into two's so that new riders can come along. This way it saves me from buying 2S1P holders. I tend to buy only 2S2P holders from fasttech w/PCB which can be used as a 2S1P. Even with only 2 Panasoncis 3400am I can still get over 3hrs run times on high with the lights I've made.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

-Archie- said:


> Balancing charge is not required too often: in my practice, the battery comes out of balance after ~1 - 1.5 year of use. As for the holder mentioned above - I don't see any point drilling it to add balance leads: it it not a battery pack but just a holder, and IMHO it's more logical to periodically charge the cells in common 4-slot (or 2-slot) charger...


Problem is - this pack is not made for constant opening. Soft aluminium profile and steel screws don't mix very well, threads in central part will be stripped very fast.
And besides balance lead is very useful on its own. I use it to quickly check remaining battery capacity with this and simular checkers:
HobbyKing Daily - HobbyKing Cellmeter - YouTube

And btw here is another very interesting battery case:
Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
I don't think that it was mentioned on this forum yet. Its pretty simular to Fenix BT20's case, but made for 4 batteries and looks sturdy enough. I ordered 2 of them for testing.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> Problem is - this pack is not made for constant opening. Soft aluminium profile and steel screws don't mix very well, threads in central part will be stripped very fast.


Well, that's make sense...


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## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

> No, the worst thing that could happed is overcharging of cells if you leave it connected to the charger for a long time - but protection PCB in the battery pack should prevent it. Still you should disconnect it from charger when its finished charging (green led lights up on charger), don't leave it connected.
> 
> You have to solder it inside the battery pack to the protection pcb and cut a small hole in the plastic to route the wires. I can make a picture that shows where you have to solder the wires, but you'll need some soldering skills for this - points are tiny


Thanks! For the beginning I'll stay with the original battery holder and always have a look at the green light of the charger ;-)

BTW: Very nice battery holder to which you refer. Maybe I'll order me one as well...


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Kir said:


> And btw here is another very interesting battery case:
> Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
> I don't think that it was mentioned on this forum yet. Its pretty simular to Fenix BT20's case, but made for 4 batteries and looks sturdy enough. I ordered 2 of them for testing.


Nice find Kir!! 
Have some update too - found the alu holders in different colour and cheper Price:
too bad that all of these alu holders are not magicshine compatible!!
- High Quality blue color Rechargeable 8.4v 4*18650 4400 mAh battery pack for solarstorm X2 bicycle bike light of battery set-in Rechargeable Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
- High Quality Rechargeable 8.4v 4*18650 4400 mAh bicycle light battery pack for solarstorm X2 bike light of battery set-in Rechargeable Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com

Magicshine compatible:
- waterproof rechargeable 8.4v 4*18650 5200 mAh battery pack for bicycle liahg bike light,headlamp,headlight of battery set-in Rechargeable Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
- waterproof 6400mAh 4*18650 8.4V Rechargeable 18650 Battery Pack for Bicyle Light with Magic protection bag+free shipping-in Rechargeable Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com

They have a nice claimed capacity - but this should be tested.....

Kaidomain has the black holder as well now:
- http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S022419


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> ...And btw here is another very interesting battery case:
> Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
> I don't think that it was mentioned on this forum yet. Its pretty simular to Fenix BT20's case, but made for 4 batteries and looks sturdy enough. I ordered 2 of them for testing.


Nice find Kir. I like the look of this one. I'd get one but I'd like to use paypal. Since I'm in no hurry I might have to wait till someone else is doing the selling.

If anyone out there sees another vendor selling these with the paypal option please post up.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Kir said:


> And btw here is another very interesting battery case:
> Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
> I don't think that it was mentioned on this forum yet. Its pretty simular to Fenix BT20's case, but made for 4 batteries and looks sturdy enough. I ordered 2 of them for testing.


Wow shipping kills this deal for me. $15 to ship? I like the case and willing to try it but will wait until another vendor sells them with better or free shipping.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pucked up said:


> Wow shipping kills this deal for me. $15 to ship? I like the case and willing to try it but will wait until another vendor sells them with better or free shipping.


Actually the price isn't bad. The other places just include the shipping with the listed price. If you really want one badly and don't mind dealing with the credit card info I suggest you go for it. Just don't expect to get it real fast.


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## Scoobylight (Apr 28, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Actually the price isn't bad. The other places just include the shipping with the listed price. If you really want one badly and don't mind dealing with the credit card info I suggest you go for it. Just don't expect to get it real fast.


Will this battery holder take the longer protected decent batteries i.e. around 69 mm. I need longer battery life for my ssx2


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Scoobylight said:


> Will this battery holder take the longer protected decent batteries i.e. around 69 mm. I need longer battery life for my ssx2


Why would you want to use "protected" batteries? They are not designed nor intended to work in this configuration - that is the why they have a different PCB for 2sXp packs.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Scoobylight said:


> Will this battery holder take the longer protected decent batteries i.e. around 69 mm. I need longer battery life for my ssx2


the holder has already a pcb istalled to protect the batteries!
So you should use unprotected 18650 cells - longest runntime you will get with panasonic ncr18650b-3400mAh!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Scoobylight said:


> Will this battery holder take the longer protected decent batteries i.e. around 69 mm. I need longer battery life for my ssx2


longer batteries don't give you longer runntime :nono: 
but newer chemistry or lately released batteries will :eekster: :thumbsup:


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> Problem is - this pack is not made for constant opening. Soft aluminium profile and steel screws don't mix very well, threads in central part will be stripped very fast.
> And besides balance lead is very useful on its own. I use it to quickly check remaining battery capacity with this and simular checkers:
> HobbyKing Daily - HobbyKing Cellmeter - YouTube
> 
> ...


Kir,

have you noticed that the case you mentioned has a picture of a triple led Solastorm.... maybe its the standard case that comes with that light.... should be a great one to mod the side leds optics for flood and leave the center one for throw... Dont you think? Similar set up you use with your singfire but ina much smaller form factor.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Kir said:


> And btw here is another very interesting battery case:
> Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
> I don't think that it was mentioned on this forum yet. Its pretty simular to Fenix BT20's case, but made for 4 batteries and looks sturdy enough. I ordered 2 of them for testing.


Very cool! Has anyone seen a 2-cell version of this (like the Fenix BA4C case that comes with the BT20)? As far as I can tell, no one sells the BT20 case separately.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Lichitisky said:


> Kir,
> 
> have you noticed that the case you mentioned has a picture of a triple led Solastorm.... maybe its the standard case that comes with that light.... should be a great one to mod the side leds optics for flood and leave the center one for throw... Dont you think? Similar set up you use with your singfire but ina much smaller form factor.


Yes, its a case for SolarStorm X3. I actually noticed the SSX3 and posted link to it on another forum, then some guys from this forum asked seller to make separate listing for battery case only. 
I ordered 2 cases and will post impressions here when I'll receive them.

SSX3 could work as flood-throw combo if you'll replace optics in side leds, but imo this is a better choice:
1Set Cree XML T6+2xCree XPE R2 LED Bicycle Light 4 Mode 1200 Lumens Rechargeable intelligent Power Indicate LED Bike HeadLights-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
Clone of niteye B30, TIR lenses on the sides for floor and reflector in center for throw, nice optional remote control. Expect kinda crappy battery though, but still worth it for $70. 
The only bad thing about it is XP-E leds on the sides, but it should be possible to replace them with XM-L.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Kir said:


> Yes, its a case for SolarStorm X3. I actually noticed the SSX3 and posted link to it on another forum, then some guys from this forum asked seller to make separate listing for battery case only.


Is there a link to this? Or is it the same one from Ali Express?


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> Yes, its a case for SolarStorm X3. I actually noticed the SSX3 and posted link to it on another forum, then some guys from this forum asked seller to make separate listing for battery case only.
> I ordered 2 cases and will post impressions here when I'll receive them.
> 
> SSX3 could work as flood-throw combo if you'll replace optics in side leds, but imo this is a better choice:
> ...


OMG that looks nice!

The build quality looks great but, one thing turns me down right away: the leds.

This lamp uses a not so efficient XML t6 and even worse, 2 XPE R2. Would this bring down the lumens count when compared, for example, with the SSx3 or Nitefire HERO2?

Another thing is.... the mount. The famous brands that uses this type os mount are known to be great. But the "Chinos" version... not so good.

Do own or have taken a look at this lamp? Is it good, quality wise? How do you think iT would compare to SSx3 and Nitefire HERO2 regarding to power output and overall quality?

From what you have seen what is the best, cost efective light for the BARS (not using any headlamp with along with it), with 2, 3 and 4 leds?

Catman Could answers this last one for me as well?


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## Lichitisky (Feb 25, 2013)

You guys think this would be great battery holder or the USB plug would be a problem? The screw looks solid in this... better than the one we saw in Kaidomain?!?!

TrustFire 4000mAh 4 x 18650 Battery Power Bank w / USB Output + EUA Plug Power Adapter - Frete Grátis - DealExtreme


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Lichitisky said:


> This lamp uses a not so efficient XML t6 and even worse, 2 XPE R2. Would this bring down the lumens count when compared, for example, with the SSx3 or Nitefire HERO2?
> 
> Another thing is.... the mount. The famous brands that uses this type os mount are known to be great. But the "Chinos" version... not so good.
> 
> Do own or have taken a look at this lamp? Is it good, quality wise? How do you think iT would compare to SSx3 and Nitefire HERO2 regarding to power output and overall quality?


It uses XPE leds on purpose since this version doesn't have brightness adjustment for leds. So you have 3 modes - center led only, side leds only (low-brightness mode with low current from battery), center + side leds. 
It won't be as bright as SSX3 but you may be able to replace side leds with XML if you need same brightness.
I don't have it yet. And anyway lets keep the discussion of bike lights in another topics, this one is about batteries 



> From what you have seen what is the best, cost efective light for the BARS (not using any headlamp with along with it), with 2, 3 and 4 leds?


Best OR cost effective? These things are kinda different 
Cost effective is solarstorm x2 since you can get it for $25-35. Best...well for me its Singfire SF-530.



> You guys think this would be great battery holder or the USB plug would be a problem? The screw looks solid in this... better than the one we saw in Kaidomain?!?!


It won't work with most lights due to 5v output (too low for 8.4v lights and too high for 4.2v lights) Its made for this light only:
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1446903
You can probably find a few other chinese lights with usb input, I've seen them on aliexpress - but its still a very unusual battery pack. The whole idea behind it is the ability to recharge your usb gadgets on the ride using its usb port.


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## JakeS (Jan 20, 2008)

Kir said:


> It uses XPE leds on purpose since this version doesn't have brightness adjustment for leds. So you have 3 modes - center led only, side leds only (low-brightness mode with low current from battery), center + side leds.
> It won't be as bright as SSX3 but you may be able to replace side leds with XML if you need same brightness.
> I don't have it yet. And anyway lets keep the discussion of bike lights in another topics, this one is about batteries
> 
> ...


I think this battery outputs 8.4v from the charging socket and 5v from the usb. If so, it's multi purpose.
I can't see the usb plug carrying enough current to power those 3 xml2 leds.
If true, it could be a cool solution.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

I am thinking of building a battery pack for my SSX2. I haven't used it yet, but I don't expect too much from stock batteries since the price was $32...

I've gone through posts in this and some other topics and to sum it up, I have to buy housing. There are 3 contenders:
1.) 2S2P 7.4V 18650 Holder with Battery Build-in PCM Protection Circuit Module
2.) 4 x 18650 Battery Set for Bicycle Light
3.) Solarstorm portable water-proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case

Which one to choose? Since 1 and 3 are cheaper and batteries in 2 are probably crap am deciding between 1 and 3. 3 has better, waterproof housing, so 3 wins.
Did I miss something?

Once I have housing I only need 4 good batteries and we are ready to go. I will order batteries that Kir mentioned in this post.

Edit: hmm like someone already mentioned postage price for Solarstorm housing is crazy. It looks like I will have to wait for other stores to get them.


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## snownrock (Oct 2, 2013)

Kir, or anyone else.

Can you please confirm that the favourite battery holder, link:

High Quality Rechargeable 8.4v 4*18650 4400 mAh bicycle light battery pack for solarstorm X2 bike light of battery set-in Rechargeable Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com

Works with (connects to) the Solarstorm X2, the Solarstorm X2 review thread is inconclusive.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

JakeS said:


> I think this battery outputs 8.4v from the charging socket and 5v from the usb. If so, it's multi purpose.
> I can't see the usb plug carrying enough current to power those 3 xml2 leds.
> If true, it could be a cool solution.


Dual outputs...hmm, this could work. Gotta order it to test.



> Which one to choose? Since 1 and 3 are cheaper and batteries in 2 are probably crap am deciding between 1 and 3. 3 has better, waterproof housing, so 3 wins.
> Did I miss something?


1 is just a holder, you'll have to solder connector to it and use some kinda of bag to store it.
2 is tested and proven to work great. Even if batteries are crap its still worth it at $13
3 - we don't know anything about it yet and its more expensive, so its hard to say



> Works with (connects to) the Solarstorm X2, the Solarstorm X2 review thread is inconclusive.


It will work but it won't be waterproof like original SSX2 connector and you'll have to cut off a few mm of extra rubber from it to fully insert it into SSX2 connector.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Kir said:


> 3 - we don't know anything about it yet and its more expensive, so its hard to say


If the batteries in the other pack for $12 are not useful it is cheaper in case that you don't have to pay postage. You've also mentioned that 2 is not made to be open to often. Solarstorm version looks (on pictures) better in that respect and connector is probably fully compatible with SSX2.

I agree option 2 is probably worth it. With original and that battery you can probably get enough of power for a few hours.


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## snownrock (Oct 2, 2013)

Snakes said:


> 2.) 4 x 18650 Battery Set for Bicycle Light
> 3.) Solarstorm portable water-proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case


Are the Magichsine/Clone battery chargers suitable for use with these packs or can anyone recommend anything better? Especially if I'm going to be putting high quality 3400mAh Panasonic cells in these cases.

Thanks
Tom


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## ruffrydah (Oct 3, 2013)

Hi all,
Just got a Solarstorm X2 from some seller on ebay. The light is great, however the battery pack is terrible. After charging all day and attaching it to the light, the indicator leds go from 3 leds to 2 after only a few seconds on low beam. After doing some research on this site, I realized that I probably got a dud since mine has the blue shrink wrap. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good "plug and play" battery upgrade for this light? I don't want to get into soldering and buying separate cells, etc. Also would still like to use the "waterproof connector" functionality if possible. I apologize if someone has already answered a similar question... I'm trying to decide whether to pay the money to return the light to China or bite the bullet and buy a new battery pack for it.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

*Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Packs*

I bought two of these Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Packs last week from Amazon, tried them last night for two hours on my basic china lights( 1 triple XML & 1 single XML), worked great. Decent pouch, velcro attachment. $17ea + 2day free shipping for Prime members.











ruffrydah said:


> Hi all,
> Just got a Solarstorm X2 from some seller on ebay. The light is great, however the battery pack is terrible. After charging all day and attaching it to the light, the indicator leds go from 3 leds to 2 after only a few seconds on low beam. After doing some research on this site, I realized that I probably got a dud since mine has the blue shrink wrap. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good "plug and play" battery upgrade for this light? I don't want to get into soldering and buying separate cells, etc. Also would still like to use the "waterproof connector" functionality if possible. I apologize if someone has already answered a similar question... I'm trying to decide whether to pay the money to return the light to China or bite the bullet and buy a new battery pack for it.


----------



## ruffrydah (Oct 3, 2013)

patski, thanks for the suggestion, that sounds like a decent deal, especially with free 2 day shipping!


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey guys, I think I'm going to order a Solarstorm x2 head only and the Solarstorm battery pack that Kir found (Aliexpress.com : Buy Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light from Reliable Other Batteries suppliers on Shenzhen Blackshadow Technology Co., LTD). The only thing I'm unsure about is if I fill the battery pack with some nice cells, what charger can I use to charge them while they're in the pack? Anyone know a seller which sells just the charging cable?

Edit: I found the solarstorm charger on lightsmall, the charger (like all the bike pack chargers) is a 8.4v Li-po charger. My question now is: if I use normal 3.7v 18650s in the 2s-2p formation that will make the pack 7.4v (I think). Does that mean that an 8.4v charger will somehow overcharge the cells?

Cheers!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Lord Marmaduke said:


> Edit: I found the solarstorm charger on lightsmall, the charger (like all the bike pack chargers) is a 8.4v Li-po charger. My question now is: if I use normal 3.7v 18650s in the 2s-2p formation that will make the pack 7.4v (I think). Does that mean that an 8.4v charger will somehow overcharge the cells?


18650s are 3.7V nominal and 4.2V fresh off the charger so 8.4V charger is correct for 2S setups.


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks that's great


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> I bought two of these Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Packs last week from Amazon, tried them last night for two hours on my basic china lights( 1 triple XML & 1 single XML), worked great. Decent pouch, velcro attachment. $17ea + 2day free shipping for Prime members.
> 
> View attachment 836866


Looks like a good deal on a 6-cell as long as the cells are actually 2200mAh. Heck, even if they are only 1600mAh it wouldn't be a bad deal.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Is there another way to get the SolarStorm Waterproof battery box?

What is the best way to charge the used 18650 cells balanced?

I prefer to order me a Nitecore i4 Charger, but it is not charging in a balanced way, right?


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

If you live in the UK/Europe you can email me at ollyboyd[at]hot mail.co.uk , I have some of the Solarstorm waterproof battery boxes arriving soon. I think shipping to USA might be a bit expensive though.

Edit: I still have a few left if anyone's after one.


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## Dazzi (Jul 3, 2013)

*Battery,s for gloworm x1*

Hi all im looking for battery packs to use for my gloworm x1 in a dusk to dawn race was thinking of buying 2 xeccon samsung 8.4v 5200mAH will these be suitable. how much run time do you think i will get from a pack thanks inadvanced. DAZZA


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Where is everyone getting the appropriate connectors for these battery packs to go with their lights?

Example:
Dinotte lights?
Niterider lights?
Light and Motion lights?
Gemini?
Exposure lights???
Lupine lights???

I don't currently own any of those light heads from any of the manufactures mentioned above.... I am curious to know what I will need additionally, if anything, if I were to buy one of these packs and put Panasonic batts in there myself etc. 

Thanks


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Dazzi said:


> Hi all im looking for battery packs to use for my gloworm x1 in a dusk to dawn race was thinking of buying 2 xeccon samsung 8.4v 5200mAH will these be suitable. how much run time do you think i will get from a pack thanks inadvanced. DAZZA


Assuming Gloworm's stated runtime of 4.5 hours with their 5800mAh then the 5200mAh should give you 4hr 5mins. For racing, suggest you allow 30min reserve with any battery after you've done a pre-race runtime test. This 30 mins can be used up in bike repairs, slower pace, midstops and any variations with ambient temp, charger or any irregularities. So assume the runtime to be 3.5 hours with the Xeccon 5200.

This battery is only available for AU at the moment.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

This might have been mentioned here but I'm being lazy right now but was wondering if any of you have any inside info on the link. Looking for Panasonic 18650's flat top 3100 and don't know if these are real or might be fake. Was curious if anyone might have some info. They do ship from China which makes me nervous I guess.

2pcs Panasonic Flat Top 18650 3100mAh Li ion Rechargeable 3 7V Battery | eBay

Thx


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## BallisticBatteries (Oct 28, 2006)

we have a couple different kinds of packs that will work for ya.


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## JakeS (Jan 20, 2008)

mb323323 said:


> This might have been mentioned here but I'm being lazy right now but was wondering if any of you have any inside info on the link. Looking for Panasonic 18650's flat top 3100 and don't know if these are real or might be fake. Was curious if anyone might have some info. They do ship from China which makes me nervous I guess.
> 
> 2pcs Panasonic Flat Top 18650 3100mAh Li ion Rechargeable 3 7V Battery | eBay
> 
> Thx


These would be the same and from a known reliable seller.
$12.30 Panasonic NCR18650A Rechargeable 3100mAh 3.7V 18650 Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - flat top / 2-pack at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

For those not wanting to use their credit card on Aliexpress for the SolarStorm x2 battery case, just get a pre-paid credit card and use that. I don't see why that wouldn't work. Although you will be hit with a loading fee, $2 - $5 I believe. If the cases pan out (when the slow boat gets those cases to Kir) I may being doing that, unless others start getting the cases (ebay, fasttech, dx, lightmalls). Just a thought!


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## lstone84 (Nov 15, 2012)

*LT-Box?*



Cat-man-do said:


> I thought it a good idea to start a thread on replacement batteries since a lot of people are considering changing or upgrading the battery for their light system. If you need information on batteries for a new light or just a replacement for the old one this is the place to ask questions. If you have links or suggestions on where to get good batteries ( or not so good... ) please feel free to post a suggestion.
> 
> For the sake of convenience most discussion will likely revolve around Li-ion batteries so I'm supplying a link to "Battery University" for people who might first want to read up on the technology. Regardless if you have posts or questions having to do with other battery chemistries please feel free to post up.
> 
> ...


So the first battery on this list links to the LT-Box site. It has lights w/ 6000 lumens for under $100? Do you know if this site and these products are legit? These deals seem crazy. Thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lstone84 said:


> So the first battery on this list links to the LT-Box site. It has lights w/ 6000 lumens for under $100? Do you know if this site and these products are legit? These deals seem crazy. Thanks.


Some of the Chinese website make crazy lumen claims. Basically you have to try to ignore that. Doesn't mean the lights won't work they just won't be as bright as the stated output.

The prices on batteries from Lt box are very low. Word of warning, you usually get what you pay for when it comes to batteries. I would suggest that if you are a casual night rider, ride one to two hours at a time and only ride a hand full of night rides a year you might be able to get by with a cheap battery. Otherwise for folks who are more serious about their night riding I will always steer them elsewhere.

There are some good looking deals on Lt Box. So far there has only been a couple people complain about the batteries from LT Box. That's not really unusual because there's always going to be someone who didn't like what he bought from the Chinese vendors. Roll the dice and you might get lucky.

While I might personally be willing to take a chance on a cheaper light system when it comes to batteries I want something I can be sure will give me the run-time that I need. That's the one issue I won't compromise on.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com

"Sorry, this item is no longer available!"

Doh!


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

patski said:


> I bought two of these Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Packs last week from Amazon, tried them last night for two hours on my basic china lights( 1 triple XML & 1 single XML), worked great. Decent pouch, velcro attachment. $17ea + 2day free shipping for Prime members.


how do you know these are any less sketchy than the ones that come with the SSX2? I also don't want to solder a pack together. the ones you linked are the only ones I've seen that are ready to go. but don't want to be buying ones that can explode like the originals.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Does somebody know if the Hope Vison bar mount, is fitting for the SSX2 and other bike lights from China?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Do you mean this hope mount?



I use them with my Magicshine clone lights. There are some minor mods required, but it works really well.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Yes. Thats all I want to know! Thank you!!!


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box rechargeable battery case used for bike light-in Other Batteries from Electrical Equipment & Supplies on Aliexpress.com
> 
> "Sorry, this item is no longer available!"
> 
> Doh!


Available again...


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## Vilendank (Oct 4, 2013)

Is there any argument against using these video camera battteries? SONY NP-F330 Battery * Replacement NP-F330 Batteries for NP-F330
I may be mistaken (and please correct me if I am wrong), but most of these lights run off of the 7.2v-8.4v range, so building & wiring a case would be the only real hurdle.

Edit: also, as an aside, has anyone sussed out a successful LifePO build? I understand their voltage is different, but couldn't that be limited with the PCB?

Cheers


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

WHY would you want to use video camera batteries? Yes, they will work...but why?
Its much easier to buy a proper battery or battery pack.
LiFePo will work, most of these lights can actually handle up to ~12v on input - but battery indicator won't work properly and you'll get much lower capacity from 18650 lifepo cells. Its only worth doing if you're riding in the winter...and even then its not worth it imo.


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## Vilendank (Oct 4, 2013)

It was just curiousity, plus the simplicity of having less batteries to keep track of when charging, etc. 
I am still sorting out the details for getting a battery pack for my Jexree owl clone, I am really loving the sturdy look of the battery that comes with this one: 1 Set UltraFire UF 22B LED Bike Light 1500Lumens 3 Mode 2XCREE XM L T6 LED Waterproof Bicycle Front Light-in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
I talked to the seller but I may have overcomplicated things, but I believe extra battery packs can be purchsed with the light. One would have to change the plug, obviously, but that's a cinch.

Out of curiousity, Kir, have you tinkered with your Jexree Owl at all? I seem to remember reading your review but I can't seem to find it again. I would like to purchase the "Bat" version and put some neutral floody lights as side lights and a strong cool xm-l2 for the middle. I hoping this combination will give me lots of immediate up-front visibility with good depth perception and still let me see whats coming 1-200 metres ahead of me. I would be interested to read your thoughts on how to achieve this, but perhaps for another thread....


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Metal cases are not worth it imo, they're huge and heavy.
Jexree Owl - not yet, and haven't made any reviews too. And "bat" is not available, my order was cancelled as supplier apparently stopped making them 

PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme








If anybody want this battery pack - here is your chance to get it, paypal payment available too.
Be warned though that it doesn't have any protection pcb in it, I just received my pack from aliexpress. Basically its a direct clone of Fenix BT20's pack, just for 4 cells. There is no low-voltage cutoff or any cells monitoring so you have to use protected cells or rely on your light's battery indicator.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Kir said:


> Be warned though that it doesn't have any protection pcb in it, I just received my pack from aliexpress. Basically its a direct clone of Fenix BT20's pack, just for 4 cells. There is no low-voltage cutoff or any cells monitoring so you have to use protected cells or rely on your light's battery indicator.


Would a protected cell fit in the case as they are roughly 5mm longer than a unprotected battery? Also, do button top and/or smooth top work?

I don't see this as a deal breaker just so long as people are aware. Unless I'm missing something?

Thanks!


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## tekkamaki (Mar 3, 2007)

Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors

Just got 2 of these from amazon- seems functional for $16 and 2 day prime shipping. This one is bigger than the standard 4 cell packs that come with the cheap chinese lights. Will be testing with a triclone, 808clone and MJ872.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

ordered a magicshine charger on ebay from action led lights. you know how you get those messages at the bottom saying "People who shopped for this item also looked at"

this battery pack was there:
Battery Pack for MagicShine Bicycle LED Light Lamp MJ 872 MJ 856 MJ 858 MJ 868 | eBay

they claim its "real 5800 mAh". I looked through the feedback and didn't find any complaints for magicshine batteries at least.


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## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

Kir said:


> PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does it fit to the Ultrafire D-50 or do I need an adapter for it?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Kir said:


> Basically its a direct clone of Fenix BT20's pack, just for 4 cells. There is no low-voltage cutoff or any cells monitoring so you have to use protected cells or rely on your light's battery indicator.


If this is a direct clone of the Fenix BT20's would that mean it will not fit MS connectors?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

AFAIK, Fenix uses opposite male/female connector's arrangement, so in that sense its definitely not direct clone...


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

The SolarStorm battery connector does work with MagicShine style lighthead connector. The battery pack that came with my X2 works with my Xeccon S-12. Obviously I use the SS battery pack with the SS light, and the Xeccon pack with the S-12, but I have tested that they both connect to will work with each other's battery packs.


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey guys, Solarstorm battery boxes are here!!  I'm going to be doing a full objective review tonight including all measurements, teardown and pics. I have one soaking in the bath just now  I'll email those who asked me to put one asside for them later tonight. All I'll say now is that they are really nice quality and match the quality of the head unit.

Until later, Ollie


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey, sorry this has taken so long. Had to use a combination of my parents' decade old iMac and my android to upload the pics which was painful. I'll put more up tomorrow when I'm back in Dundee and email everyone who has emailed me previously.

Disclosure :I have some of these for sale. This is an objective review but just to you know.

So the case is nice quality, it's seriously strong, I think it would be impossible to break it even by stamping on it whatever plastic they used is good for the job. The manufacturing tolerances are very good. The lid and body come together tightly. The lid is lined with rubber which you can see in the photo to seal it against the body. There is an o-ring between the tightening knob and the lid to prevent water ingress. I don't know what the 'loop' of plastic on the side is for, you could pass webbing through it but I don't know why you might want to.

The connector is threaded for the X2's barrel nut.

The springs are nice quality and are firm.

There is no protection circuit so protected batteries or batteries charged in a separate charger must be used.

Panasonic protected cells will fit but it will be a tight squeeze.

It will take flat top batteries.

The cable looks like it could be fairly easily replaced by another of the same gauge.

All in all I'm really happy with it. Just need some decent batteries now.

MEASUREMENTS TO COME TOMORROW.

Cheers, Ollie

imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

The circuit board is interesting in that there are spaces for components that weren't installed. Looks like there is a surface mount (T260) fuse, hopefully a resettable one. A little disappointing to hear that Panasonic protected cells will be a tight squeeze, since those are the cells I was planning on using... how tight a squeeze are we talking about? Tight enough to put dents in the protection board plate on the negative end?


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Lord Marmaduke said:


> MEASUREMENTS TO COME TOMORROW.


Yes please! Thanks for the information!

I'd like to know if these cell's will fit in the case.

$11.01 Sanyo UR18650ZT 18650 2800mAh Protected Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-pack) 2-pack - protected at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
$9.53 Authentic Samsung ICR18650-26F 18650 3.7V 2600mAh Protected Rechargeable Lithium Batteries 2-pack - 2-pack / with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Thanks


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## wadegreene (Jun 28, 2007)

So would it be safe to use this battery Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors on my Serfas 1500? I want to get a spare battery with more capacity. It's the same connectors as my magic shine knock off with essentially the same charger. Will using a 8.4v vs 7.4v battery pack fry the driver on the light?


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

tekkamaki said:


> Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors
> 
> Just got 2 of these from amazon- seems functional for $16 and 2 day prime shipping. This one is bigger than the standard 4 cell packs that come with the cheap chinese lights. Will be testing with a triclone, 808clone and MJ872.


looking forward to the results.


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## tekkamaki (Mar 3, 2007)

rode for almost 2 hours tonight in the fog.
Ran the MJ872 on high most of the ride, seems to be much better battery life than the cheap 4 cell batteries. I did not go into blue until about an hour in, i never hit yellow or red. I always end up in yellow or red on similar rides with the smaller 4400 mah batts. So far so good.
on a side note the pouch is a bit looser than that of the smaller battery. The extra weight was no biggie.



Gabe3 said:


> looking forward to the results.


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## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Sorry for being slow with emails guys! I'll send them now. I have an essay due on Friday and my time management is terrible! So without further ado here are the measurements and all pics. If you want one in the UK just paypal me [email protected] £12 (sent as goods) with your address in the paypal address bit and I'll send them out the next day (email me for combined postage). I have more on their way arriving tomorrow so there are enough to go round.
If you want one with Panasonic batteries I'm afraid you'll have to wait 

Album is here -> Battery Box - Imgur

More details of fit and finish are in my previous post.

Dimensions
With nylon case
53mm depth
56.5mm width
118mm height

Bare box
Height 109mm
Depth (including strap loop) 50.6mm
Width 49.1mm

Cable thickness 4.19mm

Width of the tunnely hole thing on the side you could use for webbing: 18.4mm
Max thickness of webbing you could use: 3mm

Max width of battery that would fit 18.60mm
Max battery height with springs fully compressed=total height of compartment-(height of compressed springs+height of the lid's protruded battery contacts)
=72.51mm-(1.60+1.11)=69.8mm

I've repeated the battery length measurement many times so Panasonics will fit JUST. Of course the lid has 7.87mm over overlap with the case body so the fit isn't crucial but it would be nice to get the lid fully tightened.

I have destroyed my case in the name of testing to get pics of the circuit board at the bottom. It is stuck to the bottom with those sponge sticky pads. You would need to heat it with a hairdryer to remove it without damaging your case.

The length of cable from tip to base is 52cm.
I can also confirm that the box does support the use of just two batteries in series.

I would describe the soldering as robust 

The box's connector fits the X2s perfectly.

Cheers, Ollie


----------



## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks Ollie for all the great information!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Lord Marmaduke said:


> ...The length of cable from tip to base is 52cm.
> *I can also confirm that the box does support the use of just two batteries in series.*
> 
> I would describe the soldering as robust
> ...


To people who don't know; reason this ( highlighted ) is so important is because it means you really don't have to worry about lack of a PCB if you chose to go that route. When your lamp becomes noticeably dimmer you can stop, drop out the 4 cells and replace them with just two fresh cells. This should be enough for you to get back to your starting point without too much problem. Just remember with just two cells going you will have half the run time. Still, all said you can carry as many spare cells as you think necessary.

On a planned 3 hour ride just 4 good Panasonic's should get you through ( assuming you don't run high 100% of the time ). On a 4 to 5hrs ride bring a couple extra cells and you should be fine. I ran my Gloworm X2 on low using an old MS two cell battery (2200mAh? ) and it ran for over 4 hours. If I had used a medium setting I might have gotten maybe 2 hrs. With better cells likely a bit more.

@Lord Marmaduke, thanks for all the info on this battery holder. :thumbsup:


----------



## rvanderwerf (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks for that, I'll try a 4 pack of unprotected panasonics off amazon and change them in nitecore i4 charger. I'm hoping with these boxes, decent cells, and a external charger I'll have an affordable and bright setup (2 of the x2's xml2, one helmet one bar).



Cat-man-do said:


> To people who don't know; reason this ( highlighted ) is so important is because it means you really don't have to worry about lack of a PCB if you chose to go that route. When your lamp becomes noticeably dimmer you can stop, drop out the 4 cells and replace them with just two fresh cells. This should be enough for you to get back to your starting point without too much problem. Just remember with just two cells going you will have half the run time. Still, all said you can carry as many spare cells as you think necessary.
> 
> On a planned 3 hour ride just 4 good Panasonic's should get you through ( assuming you don't run high 100% of the time ). On a 4 to 5hrs ride bring a couple extra cells and you should be fine. I ran my Gloworm X2 on low using an old MS two cell battery (2200mAh? ) and it ran for over 4 hours. If I had used a medium setting I might have gotten maybe 2 hrs. With better cells likely a bit more.
> 
> @Lord Marmaduke, thanks for all the info on this battery holder. :thumbsup:


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Ok, pretty happy with this pack, 2.5 hr ride thurs night with an 3xml and a 1xml on high, any easy way to make this pack waterproof? rains coming in on Monday night... :thumbsup::thumbsup:



patski said:


> I bought two of these Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Packs last week from Amazon, tried them last night for two hours on my basic china lights( 1 triple XML & 1 single XML), worked great. Decent pouch, velcro attachment. $17ea + 2day free shipping for Prime members.
> 
> View attachment 836866


----------



## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

> any easy way to make this pack waterproof?


Put it into a condom/rubber glove then zip-tie it tightly shut


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Lord Marmaduke said:


> Put it into a condom/rubber glove then zip-tie it tightly shut


Nice. Get glow in the dark ones so it's easier to find in the backpack. I now use Glad Wrap for the bared batteries I've skinned. Works great. Add some duct tape will further protect it.

On another funny note. Just when we think we've seen it all with Li-ion batteries, the last pic in this blog takes the cake over the missing 18650 cell in a 4 pack we've seen here.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

We know emitters no matter how small they are. Yet we don't know much about what's really inside battery packs offered from NR to fleabay. We tend to get very little information even from higher-end manufacturers. Most won't even tell you the emitters they are using. Lupine seems to be the exception here. We know they are using XM-L2 for their new R14s and they use Panas cells. Gemini is using Samsung and Gloworm uses Panas.

With a new year around the corner, we are ready for Battery Thread 2014. Lets know what we're getting. We may be able to carry forward info to next years thread if manufacturers have not changed suppliers. I will include MS this time. MSDS are from HP which uses these same cells for their laptops etc.

MJ-6008 - 2 x BAK B18650CA. Found here at FastTech. MSDS here.
MJ-6002 - 4 x BAK B18650CA. Same as MJ6008. 2 cells more 
MJ-6030(may be phased out) - 4 x Samsung ICR18650 28A. Found here at FastTech
MJ-6036 - 6 x B18650CA. Same as MJ-6002. 2 cells more.

Xeccon BAK 2200 - 2 x 18650C4. Found here at AliBaba. MSDS here.
Xeccon BAK 4400 - 4 x 18650C4. Same as 2200. 2 cells more.
Xeccon BAK 6600 - 6 x 18650C4. Same as 4400. 2 cells more.
Xeccon Samsung 5200 - 4 x ICR18650 26F. Found here at FastTech. MSDS here.
Xeccon Samsung 7800 - 6 x ICR18650 26F. Same as 5200. 2 cells more.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

mtbRevolution said:


> MJ-6030(may be phased out) - 4 x Samsung ICR18650 28A. Found here at FastTech


Thats interesting.
Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)
These batteries have to be charged to 4.3v to get full capacity and I'm pretty sure that standart MJ chargers will only charge them to 4.2v 
And 4.2v charge will actually give only 2400mAh per cell, so its kinda pointless to use them instead of normal 2600mAh cells.


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Kir said:


> Thats interesting.
> Test of Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple)
> These batteries have to be charged to 4.3v to get full capacity and I'm pretty sure that standart MJ chargers will only charge them to 4.2v
> And 4.2v charge will actually give only 2400mAh per cell, so its kinda pointless to use them instead of normal 2600mAh cells.


Thanks for bringing that up. That clears questions I've had with this battery. Is the 4.3v charge by design or just plain oddity?


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

mtbRevolution said:


> Is the 4.3v charge by design or just plain oddity?


By design, of course:
Cylindrical Rechargeable Battery | ICR 18650-28A Li-Ion Battery - Samsung SDI Official Site

Most of battery manufacturers (except Panasonic) use increased voltage for modern high-capacity cells...


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

What's the best way to seal this or will a nylon pouch suffice?

A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay


----------



## Lord Marmaduke (Oct 5, 2013)

Gharddog03 said:


> What's the best way to seal this or will a nylon pouch suffice?


No! You REALLY want that totally waterproof. I would suggest a rubber glove ziptied tightly shut inside the pouch.


----------



## 1nterceptor (Jun 6, 2013)

Need a waterproof battery pack? This may work for you.
I dropped the whole thing in a pitcher of water to test how 
it handles getting wet. They sell the battery pack separately.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ont-rear-light-combo-885244.html#post10780807


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Gharddog03 said:


> What's the best way to seal this or will a nylon pouch suffice?
> 
> A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay


One step closer to everyone's dream of an affordable 6800 mAh 4-cell battery pack!


----------



## sankaman (Apr 19, 2009)

steelhmr said:


> One step closer to everyone's dream of an affordable 6800 mAh 4-cell battery pack!


Pardon my ignorance, but what is that extra cable/wire for?


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Gharddog03 said:


> What's the best way to seal this or will a nylon pouch suffice?
> 
> A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay


Its supposed to be shrinkwrapped, you need 66-70mm shrink tube for that:
12ft 66mm Heat Shrink Tubing Tube Wrap RC AA 18650 Battery Make | eBay
But you really need to provide additional protection from water, something like a rubber glove/balloon, few layers of adhesive tape, plastic bags - basically anything that can seal it from water.

2nd wire is JST connector, usually used on R/C models.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> Its supposed to be shrinkwrapped, you need 66-70mm shrink tube for that:
> 12ft 66mm Heat Shrink Tubing Tube Wrap RC AA 18650 Battery Make | eBay
> But you really need to provide additional protection from water, something like a rubber glove/balloon, few layers of adhesive tape, plastic bags - basically anything that can seal it from water.
> 
> 2nd wire is JST connector, usually used on R/C models.


Thank you:thumbsup:. Might give it a go. Panasonics for 34$ don't think you can go wrong. Maybe I'll heat shrink and put in a water bottle. I'm assuming you can charge it through the plug and the JsT end? I'm into RC planes and have a lipo charger so either way it should work.

Or maybe this one 
Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 7800mAh Waterproof Battery for MagicShine LED Bike Light | eBay


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It uses this PCM from the same seller, so it should cut off at 3.0V/cell - nice if you won't like to damage the cells.


steelhmr said:


> One step closer to everyone's dream of an affordable 6800 mAh 4-cell battery pack!


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> I'm assuming you can charge it through the plug and the JsT end? I'm into RC planes and have a lipo charger so either way it should work.


Typically the primary charge is through the plug and the balance charge is through the JST using a hobby charger.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

For balance charging those cells and every 2S cell pack you need a 3 wire connector.



Vancbiker said:


> Typically the primary charge is through the plug and the balance charge is through the JST using a hobby charger.


----------



## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

So the $34 Panasonic battery will charge fine on a MS charger, or is balance charging needed for it to be worth it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

kroe said:


> So the $34 Panasonic battery will charge fine on a MS charger, or is balance charging needed for it to be worth it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should work. I just sent the seller a question to confrim since I will be charging it using a gemini charger.

Question-

Can you use duck tape and seal the battery back? Will this damage the pack in any way??? I think duck taping will help avoid the solder points breaking off and any tugging on the wires.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Balance charging is the proper way to charge such battery packs, but its not really needed if you're using high-quality cells like these panasonic ones. It will charge fine on MJ charger.

Yes, you can use tape/rubber to cover and seal the battery pack. Just use something that is waterproof and resistant to wear.


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> Balance charging is the proper way to charge such battery packs, but its not really needed if you're using high-quality cells like these panasonic ones. It will charge fine on MJ charger.
> 
> Yes, you can use tape/rubber to cover and seal the battery pack. Just use something that is waterproof and resistant to wear.


Thanks. Kir.:thumbsup:


----------



## aquaport (May 10, 2004)

*Just A Quick Question About The Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box*.

Do I need to pull the batteries to charge them?

And if not, what would a good recommended wall adapter be to compliment it?

Thanks,


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

aquaport said:


> *Just A Quick Question About The Solarstorm portable water proof 4*18650 battery box*.
> 
> Do I need to pull the batteries to charge them?
> 
> ...


Action-LED-Lights ? Magicshine 1.8A Charger - MJ-6012

Action-LED-Lights ? Gemini 1.8A Charger

These should work


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

This looks like a nice 2cell pack. For those looking for a light helmet pack. 
1 Sanyo 18650 2S1P Li ion Battery Pack Output 7 4V 2600mAh w PCM Inside Plug | eBay


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Gharddog03 said:


> This looks like a nice 2cell pack. For those looking for a light helmet pack.
> ****************17BnVNn


???


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Just pulled the trigger on one of these. See how fast shipping is and the quality of the pack. 
A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay

I contacted the seller and asked him to remove the JsT plug.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Damn, I just found this bad boy
A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 9300mAh Li ion Battery 6 3100mAh Cells to 2S3P w PCM | eBay


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Should get good run times with this:eekster:
1x Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 10400mah Battery Pack with PCM 8Cells to 2S4P w Plug | eBay


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

BTW this seller sells pretty good stuff - I got a PCB for 4S pack from him and works OK so far (cuts off at 3V/cell - so good to go with li-po).


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> BTW this seller sells pretty good stuff - I got a PCB for 4S pack from him and works OK so far (cuts off at 3V/cell - so good to go with li-po).


Sweet. Good to know. Thanks.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Lord Marmaduke said:


> Put it into a condom/rubber glove then zip-tie it tightly shut


I may still have to do that but now I'm trying the plasti dip...


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> Damn, I just found this bad boy
> A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 9300mAh Li ion Battery 6 3100mAh Cells to 2S3P w PCM | eBay


So, why the dual leads???


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> So, why the dual leads???
> 
> View attachment 844490


this goes back years but likely it is because there are some batteries that have a separate charging lead.should be no big problem in actual use.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> this goes back years but likely it is because there are some batteries that have a separate charging lead.should be no big problem in actual use.


I just wanted to add a little more to my previous comment; After looking at the ad it looks like the circuit board is designed for Li-Po batteries. The extra lead might be a balance lead...not sure really. I'd ask the question of the seller.

Would I buy one of these?...No....Not when I see the seller selling other el-cheap-O batteries claiming over-rated mAh WHICH as most people know are nothing but crap batteries. If you are going to sell batteries you either sell the good stuff and nothing else or you sell the Crap stuff and nothing else. If you lie to me about one product you sell how do I know you aren't doing something shady with the other more reputable product?.. Food for thought.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

But lightmalls, fasttech, kd and dx they all sell mixed battery stuff. Which extra lead do you mean? Balance lead for 2S pack must have 3 wires - to drain power e.g. to prevent overcharge of some cells.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just wanted to add a little more to my previous comment; After looking at the ad it looks like the circuit board is designed for Li-Po batteries. The extra lead might be a balance lead...not sure really. I'd ask the question of the seller.
> 
> Would I buy one of these?...No....Not when I see the seller selling other el-cheap-O batteries claiming over-rated mAh WHICH as most people know are nothing but crap batteries.


There's no difference between LiPo and LiIon battery: electrochemically, it is the same thing. Small connector is for charger, not balancing: it is one of common standards used in RC-world. You may just cut it off if unneeded: it doesn't affect battery operation in any way. As for seller - hunk_lee / A-OK battery is very reputable: I myself (and my cycling club mates) ordered several of his items, all of them were of high quality.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

^ +1 as I wrote about A-OK already. Li-po is tough power source and little dangerous chemistry when deep discharged. Li-po cells doesn't have high voltage sag as li-ion and voltage drops very slowly.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> But lightmalls, fasttech, kd and dx they all sell mixed battery stuff. Which extra lead do you mean? Balance led for 2S pack must have 3 wires - to drain power e.g. to prevent overcharge.


I have a distrust for e-bay vendors. That said I don't buy battery packs from anyone anymore unless I know the brand and mAh rating of the cells in the pack. I might buy lights from the Chinese web sites but I don't like their battery packs. Separate cells? that's another issue. Websites like fasttech, K/D and DX have a reputation to uphold. If they advertise something as , "Panasonic"..."Samsung"...etc...they better be the real deal.

E-bay dealers...if they get bad rep. they can just change names and start over.



MK96 said:


> .... *Which extra lead do you mean? *Balance led for 2S pack must have 3 wires - to drain power e.g. to prevent overcharge.


The photo showed an extra ( male plug ) coming from the PCM. Not quite sure what it's used for but years ago I bought a 6-cell battery that had an extra lead that I believe ( bear with me, I forget it was so long ago ) it was used to charge the battery. I can't remember what type plug was used. Somewhere in my man cave this battery is hiding or I'd give it a quick look.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

I am ebay buyer. I always buy the seller not the item. And with about 13,000 transactions and 99.7 % feedback. I don't think there's much to worry about. To each their own. :thumbsup:


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## tobel (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi!
I have the Solarstorm 2x cree xml U2 led light but the batterypack sucks. It runs out of juice in less than an hour on full power. I have read a lot of posts in this thread but I don´t really get it when it comes to putting together my own batterypack. Could someone please tell me if the combination below is compatible. I want to charge the batterypack with the batteries in the case if it is possible. Is this a good setup or am I missing something important here?

The case:
Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay

The batteries:
$16.86 Panasonic NCR18650A 18650 3100mAh 3.7V Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - min capacity 2950mAh at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you fit these cells inside you are OK and if the case has its own PCB, you don't need to buy protected cells.


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## rvanderwerf (Feb 27, 2011)

Not sure where you are located - but that's the setup I am going with. I am waiting for the x2 to come in (ordered 2), and ordering the panasonic cells (3400mah)off amazon (4 for 38 shipped 2 day). With all the customs issues around export of batteries, I ordered just the light heads from overseas.


----------



## tobel (Nov 5, 2013)

I´m not sure that the case has its own PCB. If not, is it ok with protected cells? Is it ok to charge them while the cells are still in the case?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

yes, it will work as a dual protection, but protected cells are usually slightly longer. yes, you can charge them while they are in case.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

tobel said:


> I´m not sure that the case has its own PCB. If not, is it ok with protected cells? Is it ok to charge them while the cells are still in the case?


There is no protection pcb in this case so I recommend to use protected cells in it. That will give you overcharge/overdischarge protection and short-circuit protection if you'll accidentally insert cells in the wrong order.


----------



## tobel (Nov 5, 2013)

Ok, thanks all for your replies!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tobel said:


> Ok, thanks all for your replies!


If you look at the plug on the cell holder it is set-up with the same threaded plug used on most of the SSX2's. Should work fine with either protected or non-protected cells.

Personally I would use non-protected cells. I say that because the ( friction contacts ) tend to cause small voltage drops. This effect increases over time ( with oxidation of the contacts ) and will eventually cause the protection circuit to kick in prematurely. Not really a big issue if you clean the contacts regularly but if you don't want that to happen you can use non-protected cells. Of course with non-protected cells you run the danger of over-discharging the cells. Either way your choice.

Another reason not to use protected cells is that if one cell cuts off prematurely it will switch over to two cell operation and you won't even know it. Not the ideal situation. I'd rather go with non-protected cells and use my own judgement when the lamp starts to dim.

Sooner of later someone is going to sell one of these with a built in voltage indicator. When that happens these will sell like hot cakes.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Personally I would use non-protected cells. I say that because the ( friction contacts ) tend to cause small voltage drops. This effect increases over time ( with oxidation of the contacts ) and will eventually cause the protection circuit to kick in prematurely. Not really a big issue if you clean the contacts regularly but if you don't want that to happen you can use non-protected cells.


What do you mean? How bad contacts can affect cell's PCB operation?


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

patski said:


> So, why the dual leads???
> 
> View attachment 844490


Anyone know where you can buy a nylon pouch for these 6 cell packs?


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Probably need to get creative. Maybe look at camera/accessories bags.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Cycling Bike Bicycle Waterproof Frame Pannier Front Cell Phone Tube Bag Case -- BuyinCoins.com
Topeak® Cycling Accessories ? Products - Bags > Top Tube Bags
These bags work pretty well.


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

This one looks sweet 
Topeak Water Proof Tri Dry Bag:Amazon:Sports & Outdoors


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Anyone tried these Trustfire cheapie packs? The mAh claims should of course be taken with a grain of salt.  The silicone encased "4400 mAh" 4 cell version looks _very_ similar to the Magicshine MJ-6002 pack.

There's also a shrink-wrapped 6 cell version with 8400 alleged mAh.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

zuuds said:


> Anyone tried these Trustfire cheapie packs? The mAh claims should of course be taken with a grain of salt.  The silicone encased "4400 mAh" 4 cell version looks _very_ similar to the Magicshine MJ-6002 pack.


I've measured that battery (supplied with TrustFire TR-D008 light): real capacity was 3278 mAh.


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> I've measured that battery (supplied with TrustFire TR-D008 light): real capacity was 3278 mAh.


Hmmm, 3278 is 49.6% of 6600, so assuming the "8400" mAh 6 cell pack is similarly exaggerated, that one would would really be 4171 mAh, or slightly less than the Magicshine pack with 4 BAK cells.


----------



## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

zuuds said:


> Hmmm, 3278 is 49.6% of 6600, so assuming the "8400" mAh 6 cell pack is similarly exaggerated, that one would would really be 4171 mAh, or slightly less than the Magicshine pack with 4 BAK cells.


That is a rather big assumption - they don't measure the capacity & exaggerate it so much as dream up a number & double it. Any relationship to actual capacity is purely coincidental


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Trustfire batteries are probably the best ones from chinese batteries. I've had about 10 of them and they all had at least 3700mAh capacity, usually about 4000mAh.
But unlike -Archie- I measure the full capacity of the battery, i.e. discharging to protection pcb cutoff and not simply to 6v.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

If the "trusted" trustfire is genuine then yes, but you can easily get a cloned one  Mine TFs run great in torch - but I have genuine 4000mAh.


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

find_bruce said:


> That is a rather big assumption - they don't measure the capacity & exaggerate it so much as dream up a number & double it. Any relationship to actual capacity is purely coincidental


zuuds, Bruce is 100% correct. This has been stated over and over and over again in this and other forums. The battery lottery odds are stacked against you in this manner. 1 - Shipping lithium delay or rejection. 2 - What are your chances getting good cells when you receive it? 3 - Reliability & safety. 4 - Warranty.

The Golden Rule applies more than ever. If it seems too good to be true it probably is. Also, if it's all good today, doesn't guarantee it will be tomorrow. Greed always gets the better of men.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am guessing you're from Cape Town. If so you're certainly better off getting batteries from Extremelights. They have good battery packs that caught my eye here. I don't know them from a bar of soap but I suspect they are OEM customers of Xeccon. If so, you can expect the 4400mAh to be BAK cells. At R350, that's just USD34. The Panasonic 6800mAh pack at R685/USD 66 is too good to be true. I'm worried!

However, they are an established legitimate business who have to play by the rules like this charger compliance problem they seem to be facing. Going through their website with FB page, product range etc should assure you product authenticity and warranty. The odds are now stacked in your favor.


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

mtbRevolution said:


> zuuds, Bruce is 100% correct. This has been stated over and over and over again in this and other forums. The battery lottery odds are stacked against you in this manner. 1 - Shipping lithium delay or rejection. 2 - What are your chances getting good cells when you receive it? 3 - Reliability & safety. 4 - Warranty.
> 
> The Golden Rule applies more than ever. If it seems too good to be true it probably is. Also, if it's all good today, doesn't guarantee it will be tomorrow. Greed always gets the better of men.
> 
> ...


I'm from California, so you're about 10,000 miles off.  You're right, it's just a question of how much quality do you want to pay for. For your basic 4-cell magicshine-type pack, it seems the main choices boil down to:

*Price/ Brand/ Cells/ mAh*
$10/ generic ebay, DX, etc./ mystery/ mystery

$20/ Trustfire/ Trustfire/ 3300-3700ish

$35/ Magicshine/ BAK/ 4400 actual

$35/ Hunk Lee/ Panasonic/ 6200 (?)

$55/ Gemini/ Samsung/ 5200 actual

$89/ Gloworm/ Panasonic/ 5900 actual

So far the Hunk Lee battery looks very promising, you get the same Panasonic cells as the Gloworm pack (so it's probably more like 5900 than 6200 mAh), but give up the warranty, nice case/pouch, domestic shipping, etc.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Zuuds,
A year ago I bought a 3x XML light that came with a battery that only lasted about 1.5 hours ( my rides tend to be over 2 hours)
I dropped around $30 on a Kaidomain battery that came wiht no pack or charger...and only ran about 2 hours.( and run time got shorter after each charge)
I ended up with a Xeccon hardcase from Leonard/ mtbrevolution that runs over 3 hours...and still going strong.
If I was going to do it over...I would try to find the light head seperate and buy a good battery.


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

zuuds said:


> I'm from California, so you're about 10,000 miles off.  You're right, it's just a question of how much quality do you want to pay for.


Here's hoping I don't come back as a Minuteman.

You've done your homework. The cells you listed are reliable. While Panasonic will give you longer runtime to weight ratio, the another important question is how long are your average rides. If you say about 3 hours then the Gemini Samsung 5200 will do the job. We have similar batteries with neoprene pouches heading to CO next week.

If you want to trade a sure thing with cheaper higher capacity Panasonic packs with no waterproofing protection or pouch, unknown shipping time and impossible to return warranty should it go south then its your choice. I will most defintely take Archie's word Hunk Lee is legit but can anyone say he's test each battery he gets from his suppliers, or his supplier's suppliers.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

mtbRevolution said:


> We have similar batteries with neoprene pouches heading to CO next week.
> 
> If you want to trade a sure thing with cheaper higher capacity Panasonic packs with no waterproofing protection or pouch, unknown shipping time and impossible to return warranty should it go south then its your choice. I will most defintely take Archie's word Hunk Lee is legit but can anyone say he's test each battery he gets from his suppliers, or his supplier's suppliers.


Cool, the more options the better! As you point out, a lot more unknowns (and less goodies) with the Hunk Lee packs, but they're about $20 cheaper than the Gemini packs, so depending on one's risk tolerance, it could be worth the gamble. But if you can pick up a brand name pack on sale and there's only a $5-10 price difference, then it's a no-brainer to go with the brand name pack.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Very surprised and appreciate that so many people talk about my products!
The two connectors infact from same position marked P+~P-. Someone want to charge the battery when they use the battery at same time. Keep one if you only need DC socket. The finally product has PVC tube to protect inside parts.
Welcome to: Cable Wire, For Laptop Notebook items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

HunkLee said:


> Very surprised and appreciate that so many people talk about my products!


Thank you for good service, and welcome onboard!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

So whatever someone wanted to ask about cells and stuff now he can do it


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Kir said:


> PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.

You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.


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## Bettega (Oct 7, 2011)

pucked up said:


> If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.
> 
> You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.


Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Bettega said:


> Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?


If you go back a few post, I think Kir confirmed that the protected NCR's do fit. I don't have this case, but I do have the similar one from the BT20 and protected cells fit.

I like this case and may pick up a couple.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

pucked up said:


> If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.
> 
> You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.


Hey, nice find!
The panasonic NCR18650B with 3400mAh are just a few bucks less than at fasttech - Klick for link! (coupon *bgf113*)

get the protected one its here (coupon *bgf120)

**I just hit the button** :eekster:*


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Wow, nice find, thanks.
Anyone knows if they would fit into this box: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564
Since box has protection circuit I need unprotected batteries, right?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Snakes said:


> Wow, nice find, thanks.
> Anyone knows if they would fit into this box: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564
> Since box has protection circuit I need unprotected batteries, right?


The flat top unprotected cells fit in that box.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Whitedog1 said:


> Hey, nice find!
> The panasonic NCR18650B with 3400mAh are just a few bucks less than at fasttech - Klick for link! (coupon *bgf113*)
> 
> get the protected one its here (coupon *bgf120)
> ...


FYI...This is a good price if you need the batteries now. If you can wait, the price for these cells has gone as low as $12.30/pair (flat top unprotected) during one of their Wallbuys group buy.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Anyone know of a similar 2 cell holder ? ie like Fenix BT20's pack, without having to buy the whole light


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

pucked up said:


> FYI...This is a good price if you need the batteries now. If you can wait, the price for these cells has gone as low as $12.30/pair (flat top unprotected) during one of their Wallbuys group buy.


when will this happen again?
how do we notice that wallbuy?


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Hmm, my holder (like this one) is not working anymore after I've opened it...
I've checked all 4 cells, they are fine, but there is no electricity from whole pack. I've checked all wires and all element, everything looks ok. Any suggestions what could be wrong?


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Whitedog1 said:


> when will this happen again?
> how do we notice that wallbuy?


Don't know. You'll have to keep your eye on the BLF deal thread.

how do we notice that wallbuy? Huh?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Bettega said:


> Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?


Its a tight fit and you may not be able to fully close the top cover but they will work.



> I've checked all 4 cells, they are fine, but there is no electricity from whole pack. I've checked all wires and all element, everything looks ok. Any suggestions what could be wrong?


1) Observe the polarity markings on pcb when inserting the cells, this is very important!
2) After opening/closing the pack you have to reset protection pcb by connecting it to the charger.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Kir said:


> 2) After opening/closing the pack you have to reset protection pcb by connecting it to the charger.


Kir, thank you very much.
Connecting it to charger did it :thumbsup: . I was connecting it to charger to see if light on charger turns on - if battery pack is working, but didn't try to put charger into power socket.
After connecting it to power socket it is working again.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

These look killer. Appears he has some diY packs too. 
Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 6800mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S2PM | eBay
Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay
Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 13600mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S4PXM | eBay


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Thank you!
The final battery will be heat shrinked by PVC tube to protect it from short circuit. Just show connect material. Don't use the battery with poor connect material and mode, as it maybe short circuit and with poor electronic performance.


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Questions:

Do people here making battery packs use protected cells or add protection circuits? If the later any recommended circuits

Has anyone found a good twin/2x 18650 waterproof battery holder?

Lastly can anyone recomend a good source of cheap mj extension/y cables for making battery packs.

Thanks


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

steviemidnight said:


> Do people here making battery packs use protected cells or add protection circuits? If the later any recommended circuits


The latter, of course. Browse eBay: normally there's plenty of them; just read the descriptions...



> Lastly can anyone recomend a good source of cheap mj extension/y cables for making battery packs.


The cheapest source I know of, is DealExtreme.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

We made battery pack with PCM inside. The PCM can protect Li-ion battery from over-discharging, over-charging, short-circuit etc. Like below linked items:
items in A-OK battery store on eBay!

For the battery holder, like this:
Protection Circuit Module PCM-7.4V LiIon 18650 2S2P LPo items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks pal


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HunkLee said:


> We made battery pack with PCM inside. The PCM can protect Li-ion battery from over-discharging, over-charging, short-circuit etc. Like below linked items:
> items in A-OK battery store on eBay!
> 
> For the battery holder, like this:
> Protection Circuit Module PCM-7.4V LiIon 18650 2S2P LPo items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


Hi HunkLee, Welcome to MTBR "Lights and Night riding forum". I see that you're a vendor of batteries. Nice prices on your website. I hope you have permission from MTBR to post and list your website on the forum. The vendors who post on MTBR have to pay a fee to carry ads or to post links. Approved vendors get to post on the forums as well. If you haven't contacted one of the moderators to attain "Approved vendor status" you may want to do that so they don't remove your posts. If you are already an approved vendor for MTBR than by all means WELCOME.


----------



## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

patski said:


> I may still have to do that but now I'm trying the plasti dip...
> 
> View attachment 844489


Ooooh! i'm going to try this


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Gharddog03 said:


> Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.


Nice find! Seriously looking forward to your write up.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.

I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.

I really just needed the batteries. It's been over 3 weeks.

I read others have had this issue. Do you eventually get the batteries.

Thx


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mb323323 said:


> Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.
> 
> I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.
> 
> ...


I also ordered some batteries from Fasttech and have been waiting. Current tracking indicates:

"The item (trackingnumber) was posted on 6-Nov-2013"

mb, do you have tracking info, if so, what is the status of yours?

I haven't contacted Fasttech yet, I placed my order on Oct. 23 (2 days over 3 weeks).

edit, perhaps I shouldn't have included my tracking number, removed.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.
> 
> I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.
> 
> ...


If you're buying loose cells, Amazon's probably a better bet. A few bucks more, but you avoid the infuriating delays.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

zuuds said:


> If you're buying loose cells, Amazon's probably a better bet. A few bucks more, but you avoid the infuriating delays.


I ordered 36 batteries total.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

My status just says in transit but I sent an email to F/T and they explained the issue. I've been waiting since 10/20.

I'll wait a bit longer and if same issue.

Based on F/T response to my email, it's as though they know these orders can't be filled but they are just trying anyway to see which will go thru.

F/T response to me. "Since your package contains batteries, which are not allowed by Hong Kong Post due to aviation security reason, we believe your package is now waiting for inspection. Therefore, we will found the tracking status remains "acceptance". If your package is caught and returned to us, we will arrange refund for you."


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Sorry I'm a beginner and don't know how to begin.
I'd like to know who should I contact for ads. details?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Sorry I'm a beginner and don't know how to begin.
> I'd like to know who should I contact for ads. details?


Contact Us


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Hunk lee will you be making a 2S1P panasonic 3400mah battery packs in the near future?


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

*Have prepared*



Trd620 said:


> Hunk lee will you be making a 2S1P panasonic 3400mah battery packs in the near future?


Have prepared but not list yet. Maybe tomorrow.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Thank you!
> *The final battery will be heat shrinked by PVC tube to protect it from short circuit.* Just show connect material. Don't use the battery with poor connect material and mode, as it maybe short circuit and with poor electronic performance.


This battery will come heat shrinked? Or are you talking about a different unit?

Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 6800mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S2PM | eBay


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Did two run times on high using a gemini duo at work. Temperature 44-35 degrees. First run time was 3:29 second was 3:27. Very impressed with this 4 cell Panasonic 6200 mah.

Great battery HunkLee.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.


Cool. 2 cell Panasonic packs would also be appreciated.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Gharddog03 said:


> Did two run times on high using a gemini duo at work. Temperature 44-35 degrees. First run time was 3:29 second was 3:27. Very impressed with this 4 cell Panasonic 6200 mah.
> 
> Great battery HunkLee.


Looks like a good set-up. :thumbsup:

*@HunkLee*....Someone also mentioned wanting a 4-cell 2S2P set-up using Panasonic 3400mAh cells. I'll second that request. There is also a market for a 2-cell ( 3400mAh ) two series pack that so far not too many vendors seem to sell. A number of people here like to run two cell packs on their helmet or run two cell packs for smaller rear lamps. Make them and they should sell, particularly since there seems to be some problems with getting batteries from the other side of the world at the moment.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

^ Thanks for jumping in--a 3400 mAh 2 cell would be lovely. Would order immediately.


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## dirkfh (Jan 20, 2004)

Got my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee in 6 days from China to California. Same pack as shown by Gharddog03 below except pack is green. Charging now.


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mb323323 said:


> My status just says in transit but I sent an email to F/T and they explained the issue. I've been waiting since 10/20.
> 
> I'll wait a bit longer and if same issue.
> 
> ...


The item (tracking number) was returned to sender on 18-Nov-2013.

Doh!


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Yeah, they simply can't send batteries from China. I'm assuming loose cells only but not really sure as I have a 6 cell on order. Hopefully that will actually arrive. Might be day light savings time again by the time it does arrive tho. Haha.

Here's Fasttech response.

As you may have noticed that there was no tracking updates for your package during the past few weeks. After confirming with HongKong Post, we've confirmed that your package was failed to pass through the x-ray check and has been returned. This was caused due to current strict inspection of the aviation security.

Your package has just been returned to us. Considering the risk of being returned/delayed again, we are going to make a refund for your order. Because there is too many orders being affected, the refund will be done within 24 hours. Your understanding would be highly appreciated.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

What's the typical expected lifetime of a good 4x18650 pack? I purchased a couple of the Gemini 5200mah packs last year. I've been using them on average 3 times a week, for 1.5-2.5 hours per ride. I recharge after every ride. The batteries are kept in a climate controlled area. I'd guess I've got 200 charge cycles in them so far.

I've noticed recently that my battery indicator on my lights are now getting into the 'warning' range 1.5 hours or so into a ride. I definitely feel I've got my $'s worth as they've been flawless and still last 2+ hours on high on my MJ872 clones. I want to replace them as the warning lights make me nervous on longer rides. 

Is this life range typical? Better than average, worse than average?


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

mb323323 said:


> Yeah, they simply can't send batteries from China. I'm assuming loose cells only but not really sure as I have a 6 cell on order. Hopefully that will actually arrive. Might be day light savings time again by the time it does arrive tho. Haha.
> 
> Here's Fasttech response.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, well I still need the batteries and on their website it says:

"US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post.
Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."

So, I'm hoping they resend the order. Guess I'll see what happens! Which will come first, Christmas or batteries!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.


hey, just want to mention that your plug is not compatible in terms of waterproofness for most bike lights guys are using here!
Maybe you should consider to use a magicshine style plug! 
Or would that be an option as a special request when ordering?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TechniKal said:


> What's the typical expected lifetime of a good 4x18650 pack? I purchased a couple of the Gemini 5200mah packs last year. I've been using them on average 3 times a week, for 1.5-2.5 hours per ride. I recharge after every ride. The batteries are kept in a climate controlled area. I'd guess I've got 200 charge cycles in them so far.
> 
> *I've noticed recently that my battery indicator on my lights are now getting into the 'warning' range 1.5 hours or so into a ride. * I definitely feel I've got my $'s worth as they've been flawless and still last 2+ hours on high on my MJ872 clones. I want to replace them as the warning lights make me nervous on longer rides.
> 
> Is this life range typical? Better than average, worse than average?


If you're starting to ride in colder weather this is the reason your voltage indicators are changing sooner than expected. If you're still riding at ambient temperatures than perhaps your batteries are losing some capacity. If you routinely discharge your batteries into the red zone ( on your indicators ) that will speed up the aging process of the battery.

Seems you ride at night very often. When you start planning longer rides you might want to do a test discharge on full .. ( or whatever power level you usually ride at ) so you KNOW how long the battery will last. If you do this make sure you use a fan to keep the lamp cool. Do this a couple times a year ( or when in doubt ) and you should be fine.

If you are riding in colder weather and plan to do so regularly it would be better to use a battery with more capacity. ( doing this helps deal with the voltage sag issue experienced in colder weather. Hope this helps.

*Pigmode commented:*



> ...Thanks for jumping in--a 3400 mAh 2 cell would be lovely. Would order immediately.


Turns out he has one on his website. Order just placed.  I'll report on how long it takes to get to me...( Maryland, EAST Coast USA ).


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

*HunkLee*, a couple of stupid questions please!

* What is the cutoff voltage for these packs?*
NCR18650B seem to have no problem going down as low as 2.5V per cell - if the protection board cuts the battery pack off at, say, 3.0V then there's no benefit in the 3400mAh capacity because they will only be mine if the battery pack does discharge down to 5V...

*Does the battery pack PCB support balancing?*
I am asking because I see no balancing wire coming out of the pack, and if a pack of 8 cells goes out of balance it will really be a great pity.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

discharging down to 2.5V doesn't provide much more mAh compared to 3.0V cutoff!
I measured 100-200mAh but you will rapidly reduce your cycles (lifetime) when discharged that far!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Panasonic 3400 should go to 2.7V under load. But I prefer 3.0V by Li-ion, by Li-po 3.0-3.3V, Li-fe about 2.8-2.9V.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you're starting to ride in colder weather this is the reason your voltage indicators are changing sooner than expected.


I'm in Texas, so cold is relative. We've had a few nights where it gets into the 40s f, but usually it's 60df or higher.

I ordered a couple of the magicshine 5600mah packs from Action-LED-Lights (and a Gemini Duo lamp). We'll see how those hold up compared to the Gemini packs I've been using. Considered just getting new Gemini packs, but the magicshine are slightly higher capacity, hardshell, and have a mounting system that would seem to work better on my stem - at the same price.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Capacity drop caused by ambient temperature is quite real thing, but mostly noticeable on really cold days (close to freezing and below).

Maybe, your batteries are already out of balance: most bike lights & chargers are unable to correct that - and once started, effect will increase with each charge/discharge cycle, unless you fix that issue by any appropriate method.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> discharging down to 2.5V doesn't provide much more mAh compared to 3.0V cutoff!
> I measured 100-200mAh but you will rapidly reduce your cycles (lifetime) when discharged that far!


Yes I saw the tests, but if I am to pay extra for the extra 200mAh of capacity then I would like to have what I am paying for.

Say, Samsung 2600 mAh batteries are much cheaper and you don't have to discharge them to 2,5 to get those 2600 mAh, but but we are talking about NCR18650B now, so why not use them to their full potential - especially if we have to pay for that extra potential?

Would still be interested to hear about balancing options for these batteries.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Anyone know how much capacity is lost at 30-40 degrees F (0-5 C) compared to 80? 30 degrees is about the coldest I have to deal with in Northern California.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Depending on how your light is set up, you could lose much brightness running down to 5V. A dual XML in series configuration has a Vf of ~6V at 2A. At 5V you wont be getting much current through the LEDs.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

That's no problem as long I don't have to ride in the forest in total darkness - that's when the last extra 200mAh really count.  Besides, the lights I use aren't driven that hard.

Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> Hmmm, well I still need the batteries and on their website it says:
> 
> "US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post.
> Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."
> ...


Please post back on how it works for you. I had one order come through with hkpost and another get caught and returned.

I would like to get some protected panasonics and they have the best price.


----------



## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

MegaVolt said:


> That's no problem as long I don't have to ride in the forest in total darkness - that's when the last extra 200mAh really count.  Besides, the lights I use aren't driven that hard.
> 
> Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?


Do you have a link to the graphs you are referring to, because every one I have seen shows the cell falling off a cliff at around 3v - eg lygte-info.dk & shows a difference of ~300 mAh capacity at .around 3.4v.

The real difference is that, in very rough numbers, you are paying a 25% increase in price for a 10% increase in capacity. To me it is not worth it unless you need that very last bit of capacity.


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

tested this 6 cell battery pack sold by TangsFire on amazon. lasted 3 hrs 20 mins on high with a solarstorm x2

Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors

i'm impressed. this will replace the original 4 cell pack that came with the light that lasts 1 hr.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

MegaVolt said:


> Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?


because we are discharging the 3100mAh cell down to 3.0v and the 3400mAh cell also - thus we gain some capacity over the 3100mAh cell!


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

*find_bruce*

When I wrote 'graphs' I meant Panasonic PDF's:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE54.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/ACA4000CE254-NCR18650A.pdf

A little about myself. 
My usual bike rides are 2 or 3 days long, and I don't usually have a chance to charge batteriess en route. My batteries's usual discharge rate is 1C. The difference between 3100 and 3400 for me is 200-300mAh.

And trust me, when you're in the forest and it's not full moon 5V from 2s3p battery is much much better than cutoff at 3.0V per cell, so every bit of help counts.


*Whitedog1*
Unfortunately, 3100 and 3400 show pretty much same capacity when discharged to 3.0V at 1C.

*Re: Temps vs Capacity*
See the PDF's I posted links to - they show discharge curves at -10C, 0C, 10C, 25C and even at 45C and 60C - that sort of gives an idea what to expect at 1C.

*HunkLee*
Sorry for being a pita, but what's the cutoff voltage for these packs?
Will the battery PCB balance the pack since there's no balancing wires coming from it?

Everyone - apologies for a long post - I know I talk too much, I always do my best to keep it short and I always lose...


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## Mr.Grumpy (Oct 26, 2012)

ljracer said:


> Please post back on how it works for you. I had one order come through with hkpost and another get caught and returned.
> 
> I would like to get some protected panasonics and they have the best price.


My order was returned to sender and refunded. I've since re-ordered and it's in the "packaging" phase. The only shipping option was SpeedPost (4 - 9 days) so cost has jumped a bit per pair.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

I ordered a couple of the Hunk Lee 6200 mAh packs. At my request, he removed the second JST connectors from the packs. They arrived 8 days after I ordered them (to California), and were very well packaged. So far so good! I have not had a chance to try them out yet. The female plugs are compatible with the magicshine type plugs, but they do not have the plastic shroud, so they do not connect as tightly, and the connection is not waterproof. I have some magicshine extension cords and heatshrink tubing on order. Even factoring these additional costs in, they should be a great value.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Mr.Grumpy said:


> My order was returned to sender and refunded. I've since re-ordered and it's in the "packaging" phase. The only shipping option was SpeedPost (4 - 9 days) so cost has jumped a bit per pair.


Thanks to a tip from another user in the yingding clone thread..

I checked wallbuys. they have Protected Panasonic 3400's on sale for $15 (for 2 cells). Free shipping....

They claim they can ship batteries without problem on their front page..So i am rolling the dice.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

From what I see there is that 45 and 60 deg. C is the same curve. Or am I missing something?  Generally lithium cells under higher temperatures improve their capacity, so there is a bit of increase. Also in -10 deg. C li-ion/li-po at 4.2V might be overcharged, usually 4.1V in minus temp is OK.



MegaVolt said:


> When I wrote 'graphs' I meant Panasonic PDF's:
> http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE54.pdf
> http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/ACA4000CE254-NCR18650A.pdf
> *Re: Temps vs Capacity*
> See the PDF's I posted links to - they show discharge curves at -10C, 0C, 10C, 25C and even at 45C and 60C - that sort of gives an idea what to expect at 1C.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ljracer said:


> Thanks to a tip from another user in the yingding clone thread..
> 
> I checked wallbuys. they have Protected Panasonic 3400's on sale for $15 (for 2 cells). Free shipping....
> 
> They claim they can ship batteries without problem on their front page..So i am rolling the dice.


That is a VERY GOOD price for two Panasonics. Maybe too good. Hope I'm wrong. Let us know how well the cells work when you get them.

I just checked the website. Looks like this is a "Promotional" price. No telling how long it will last. Two unprotected cells normally going for $17.26 That's still not a bad price for two Panasonics. Glad to see some good prices on the good stuff. :thumbsup:


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Do you see the listing as we have list?


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Very good question and very good reply from Whitedog1!
Really no more capacity from 3V to 2.5V, as the discharging curve at the end of discharging is almost vertical. Deeply charging and discharging reduce cycle life of the battery. Like over eated and over hungry. I'd like mail its specification to you if you tell me your mailbox.



MegaVolt said:


> *HunkLee*, a couple of stupid questions please!
> 
> * What is the cutoff voltage for these packs?*
> NCR18650B seem to have no problem going down as low as 2.5V per cell - if the protection board cuts the battery pack off at, say, 3.0V then there's no benefit in the 3400mAh capacity because they will only be mine if the battery pack does discharge down to 5V...
> ...


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## rvanderwerf (Feb 27, 2011)

what charger are you using to charge these? At this point ive just bought loose pannys with the panovo case for mt solarstorm x2, charged in my nitecore i4. This looks like a good cheap backup, just need a means to charge it.



Gabe3 said:


> tested this 6 cell battery pack sold by TangsFire on amazon. lasted 3 hrs 20 mins on high with a solarstorm x2
> 
> Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors
> 
> i'm impressed. this will replace the original 4 cell pack that came with the light that lasts 1 hr.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

For a 7.4V Li-ion battery pack, need 8.4V charger, use a higher current charger to reduce charging time. Like this:
A DC8.4V 1A Intelligent Charger for MagicShine bike LED 7.4V Li-ion Battery USL items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

HunkLee said:


> Very good question and very good reply from Whitedog1!
> Really no more capacity from 3V to 2.5V, as the discharging curve at the end of discharging is almost vertical. Deeply charging and discharging reduce cycle life of the battery. Like over eated and over hungry.


There's one thing: the specification of cell's manufacturer. For abovementioned Panasonics, voltage range is 4.2 to 2.5 volt, no more or less. It is not overcharge or overdischarge, it is normal working cycle...



> I'd like mail its specification to you if you tell me your mailbox.


I'm pretty sure most people here prefer to see that information published openly.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Thank you! If you have any question about the battery, pls. contact us freely!


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HunkLee said:


> I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...


I think there is a waiting period for being able to post photo's for new members. You might contact the moderators to ask if they will waive this restriction. I'd like to see your photos so you get my thumbs-up.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...


try hosting it on a image hosting site and then post the link.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Gharddog03 said:


> Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.


Meanwhile, one my mates received the same battery from HunkLee / A-OK battery:

A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay

It comes without secondary charge connector (as requested) and wrapped in black shrink tube:










I've measured it's capacity in both "8.4V to 6.0V" and "8.4 to 5.0V", because of recent discussions about its PCB module cut-off voltage.

I have to say, it's excellent high-quality battery, and PCB does not prevent discharging it to the full range specified by manufacturer. In numbers, when discharged to the 6.0V by 1A current, measured capacity is 5946 mAh. Discharge to the 5.0V gives 6170 mAh.

Below you can see voltage-by-time and capacity-by-time curves of the latter regime.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, trying to sift through 16 pages of people nerding out about batteries taught me three things:
1. Some of the batteries that come with cheap Chinese lights suck, and some don't.
2. A "good" replacement battery will put you into the price range of a genuine Magic Shine light.
3. I don't know anything more useful about batteries than I used to.

So, If I'm worried about buying a light that comes with a shrink wrapped battery, am I better off buying one that comes with something like this:







Since it appears you can open the battery up and inspect it or theoretically replace the cells with something like this:







Help me Obi Wan Kenobi


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Archie-

Thanks for the testing:thumbsup:. I have been very impressed with my pack. I have this one coming.

Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Meanwhile, one my mates received the same battery from HunkLee / A-OK battery:
> 
> A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay
> 
> ...


Nice work, Archie. Likewise to Mr. HunkLee.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Oh no, don't replace it with this camouflage :nono: :eekster: Just go for Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, XTAR, Keepower, Sony 18650's



jm2e said:


> Since it appears you can open the battery up and inspect it or theoretically replace the cells with something like this:
> View attachment 849161
> 
> Help me Obi Wan Kenobi


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

MK96 said:


> Oh no, don't replace it with this camouflage :nono: :eekster: Just go for Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, XTAR, Keepower, Sony 18650's


So, I'm a bit confused. 
Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides? 
Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
Please address the specifics of my question. I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

-Archie- said:


> I've measured it's capacity in both "8.4V to 6.0V" and "8.4 to 5.0V", because of recent discussions about its PCB module cut-off voltage.


So...what is the actual cut-off voltage on this protection PCB? 2.5v? 2.3v? Lower?


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

jm2e said:


> So, I'm a bit confused.
> Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
> Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?


Case is MUCH better than shrink wrapped batteries as you'll be able to insert good quality cells in it.
Just don't use any ***fire batteries, these grey Ultrafire ones have about 1700-1900mAh capacity.
Buy only Panasonic/Samsung/LG/Sanyo cells, they're the best atm.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

jm2e said:


> So, I'm a bit confused.
> Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
> Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
> Please address the specifics of my question. I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.


You can buy whatever batteries you want. If you like short rides, running your lights on low power, imaginary cell ratings and heavy packs that may explode when a drop of water hits them, just buy the cheapest batteries you can find.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

jm2e, the case you posted is very good. The battery you posted is trash  The only usable ****fire cells with 2400mAh are these:

$8.53 TrustFire TF 18650 3.7V 2400mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery (2-Pack)

$9.71 TrustFire TF18650 3.7V 2400mAh Protected Rechargeable Lithium Batteries 2-pack - 2400mAh actual capacity at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

$8.78 TrustFire TF18650 3.7V "3000mAh" Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - 2400mAh actual capacity at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

but they might not fit the case. So you can easily end up with something like this:

$9.94 Authentic Sanyo UR18650FM 18650 2600mAh 3.7V Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - unprotected / with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

$11.67 18650 2600mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery(Sanyo Battery Cell)-Red(2-Pack)

Each chinese ****fire or no-name brand might have problems like explosion, shortcircuit, overheat, malfunctioned PCB, some flour instead of full sized cell inside  low capacity etc ...

But the light you posted from Kaidomain should have pack at about 3-4000mAh - so you don't need to replace anything for some time. I have 2 x 880 clones, but packs still didn't arrive so can't tell you the actual capacity.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jm2e said:


> So, I'm a bit confused.
> Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
> Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
> Please address the specifics of my question. * I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.*


About your first question: If you want to know which is better that would depend on two things, the cells being used and secondly just your point of view. Personally I like soldered battery packs with good cells and good plug connectors. On the other hand cell holders can work almost just as well and give the user the option of being able to use any 18650 cell they choose. One down side to cell holders is that all the battery contacts are through friction contact only ( spring metal contacts ). I much prefer the soldered contacts of multi-cell packs with PCB's. Another issue might be that the cell holder is not as weather proof as a well protected sealed battery pack. If you carry the holder in a battery pouch probably not a major issue.

I've used cell holders in the past without too much problem but since I chose to charge my cells separately I found it wearisome to remove the cells every time I wanted to charge the cells. You can of course charge the cells in the holder with a regular 4-cell charger as long as the holder has a compatible connector plug and PCB.

About your last statement which I highlighted: You can buy cheap 18650 cells and they will work. As long as you know how long they will last when using your lamp that is the real issue. Prices though on the better 18650 cells with higher capacity have come down. That said I can't see any reason not to buy some decent cells, even if they cost a couple bucks extra per cell. For what I paid for my old red Ultrafire ( 2600mah ) cells years ago I can now buy Samsung or Sanyo. I was going to provide some links but I noticed that Fasttech ( which has some good prices on loose cells ) has sold out of almost all the good stuff. I guess batteries are getting harder to get with all the shipping restrictions.

There's a big cost difference between buying an inexpensive Chinese made lamp and a brand made lamp. Brand name costing maybe 4X as much or more. With 18650 cells...not the same issue. Cheap low capacity cells maybe $7 for two. For better cells maybe $12 for two....SO....$10 extra for 4 better cells is a super deal for added peace of mind. Knowing where to pinch the pennies and where not to pinch pennies can be important once you start riding back in wood at night.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I just clicked an ad for BikeBling's light sale and I can't believe how expensive the major brands are. $220 for a 6 cell battery, $115 for a 3 cell and $35 dollars for an extension cord were some of the prices that really stuck out.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Panasonic 10200 mah arrived. Again build quality is top notch. Mr. Hunk Lee is putting out some nice battery packs at a very reasonable prices. I'll be doing some run times at work with my gemini lights. 
Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Well...his prices are reasonable but not really that good.
If you have a spot-welding machine (like i do ) you can make such battery packs for about $50. 
Cells are ~$7.5 shipped (and thats a retail price, it should be lower for bulk purchases in china) so $45 for cells and another $5 or so for nickel strip, protection pcb and connector.
Still nobody except him offers such batteries so I guess its not a bad choice. But if you have loads of friends or live in huge city with many cyclists - it could be worth it to invest $300 or so into the spot-welding machine to make such batteries yourself for a lower price.

Just for example:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> So...what is the actual cut-off voltage on this protection PCB? 2.5v? 2.3v? Lower?


To test that, deep overdischarge or desoldering of PCB is required - so, giving the fact the battery is not mine, it was not an option. My intention was, to check whether PCB will allow to handle specified voltage range , and it does that without problem.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Kir said:


> If you have a spot-welding machine (like i do ) you can make such battery packs for about $50.


And if you have battery manufacturing plant, you can have it even cheaper!  But most people here IMHO are ordinary consumers looking to buy the battery, not to start mass production...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Hi Guys. I see all pros are here. I would like to get a battery pack. A big one *2S4P*.

I have been eyeing with this: 1x Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 10400mah Battery Pack with PCM 8Cells to 2S4P w Plug | eBay

But his also looks sexy except for the incredible price: Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 13600mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S4PXM | eBay

Is the later that much better (I mean the price difference)?

Also will welcome any other kickass 2S4P pack suggestion. Also a question in my mind is (might be minimally better for balancing). To have 2 2S2P separately and then connect them in parallel with Y cable, but separate them when charging. Feel free to let me know if the idea is nonsense

Also no spot-welding machine, so either case or pre-packed with PCB is required.

P.S: I am planing to seal it all in a bike water bottle somehow and make it waterproof.

Thank you.
Alex


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Everybody - but how are you going to balance all these 2S batteries from Mr. Hunk Lee?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

No way really, unless they/we ordered the pack with extra leads from each cell. Like the RC lipo-s. From what I am reading, I am sure that Lee would do it if requested. That mod is really not much work or material. As he is going to solder anyway (putting the pack together) adding a 1mm lead at the same time should be no biggie.

But not many of us might even have balancing chargers.
I am not flying a RC Jet, so not really keen an squeezing every drop if juice out of these.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*oalex100*, the 2P4S and 2S4P batteries are very different (and incompatible) things.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah, I know. My bad, thank you for pointing out my mistake. I meant 2S4P. Just wrote it wrong way. The links were correct. Fixed now. 

BTW: does any of you live in Germany?


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> Also a question in my mind is (might be minimally better for balancing). To have 2 2S2P separately and then connect them in parallel with Y cable, but separate them when charging. Feel free to let me know if the idea is nonsense


This is a good and a proven method - here's a typical example (not quite the capacity you need but should give you an idea). Most balancing chargers have balancing current of 200mA-300mA, so balancing a 4P pack will take ages.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Fixed now.


Ok. 

As for batteries - both are IMHO good ones, but giving not-so-big price difference, I'd personally prefer the latter.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Ok.
> 
> As for batteries - both are IMHO good ones, but giving not-so-big price difference, I'd personally prefer the latter.


The later cost 1/3 more. Isn't that big? I mean am I really going to be 1/3 better off asper real life use. Will they run close to that longer?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> The later cost 1/3 more. Isn't that big?


In pure numbers - yes. But for less than $20 difference, you'll get the maximum currently available capacity: if you really need that, twenty bucks isn't looking so big...



> I mean am I really going to be 1/3 better off asper real life use. Will they run close to that longer?


For cost-capacity ratio, Sanyo is a winner here, of course. Panasonics won't run 1/3 longer.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

oalex100 - I guess I'm too old to buy Sanyo - too much negative experience in the long run. I own several Lenovo laptops (wife (Frankenpad), dad (Frankenpad), daughter (T60) and myself Frankenpad and x61 T9300). Lenovo used sony, sanyo and panasonic in their batteries. All sanyo and sony batteries are long dead. Panasonic ones are still going strong even when the cycle count is nearing 1,000 and the age is 3 and 4 years.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MegaVolt said:


> Lenovo used sony, sanyo and panasonic in their batteries. All sanyo and sony batteries are long dead. Panasonic ones are still going strong even when the cycle count is nearing 1,000 and the age is 3 and 4 years.


That's correct (the same experience here), but I believe it's some problems in battery management controllers implemented. In other places I've seen, Sanyo are performing well and long. On the other hand, when their service life is ended, they're fading quite quickly, not steadily.

As for long-term durability, my personal favorite is Samsung: never seen "sudden failure" on them...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah, I guess I should look for Samsung options too. I didn't see any on Lee-s site.
Long lasting is a valid argument. +10% total capacity is not.
So Megavolt almost had me convinced now, but if you are sure Archie then I am back again to square one.
Where can I get reliable Samsung packs?
P.S: I live in Hungary 20 bucks IS a big deal, unfortunately.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Where can I get reliable Samsung packs?


For example, here:
Enerpower Samsung ICR18650 26F 2S2P 7 2V Mit Kabeln Open End PCB 2A 38 48Wh | eBay

Please note: if you're looking for the pack to be used with existing 8.4V charger, do not buy batteries made of Samsung cells with capacity greater than 2600 mAh. ICR18650-26 is the last 4.2V model in their range.



> P.S: I live in Hungary 20 bucks IS a big deal, unfortunately.


Ok, it makes sense.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

But 2 of this cost more than the Panasonic which has greater capacity generally and overall (at least the 2S4P that I linked).
About charger, I don't have any yet, will other what ever you guys recommend for me.

Did you link German for any particular reason? I mean are you German or live there? If yes, then I would PM you about something else.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Did you link German for any particular reason?


No.



> I mean are you German


No.



> or live there?


No.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

*oalex100*- the two packs you were picking from were initially Sanyo 8 cells 10400mAh and Panasonic 8 cells 13600mAh, and you were not sure you wanted to justify the $20 difference.

Why don't you then pick a Panasonic 6 cells 10200mAh battery then? It's only $5 more expensive but almost 100g lighter compared to the Sanyo 8 cells pack.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MegaVolt said:


> *oalex100*- the two packs you were picking from were initially Sanyo 8 cells 10400mAh and Panasonic 8 cells 13600mAh, and you were not sure you wanted to justify the $20 difference.
> 
> Why don't you then pick a Panasonic 6 cells 10200mAh battery then? It's only $5 more expensive but almost 100g lighter compared to the Sanyo 8 cells pack.


On paper that is a very convincing point. Thank you.
This way I don't have to worry about the questionably Sanyo quality mentioned.
My only concern is Can the Pana really produce the same amount of juice as the Sanyo with 2 less cells. Isnt this something to do with discharge to 2.5v vs 3v. If the light cutoff at 3v then I wont gain anything.
Also if the pana mAh is higher do I need a different charger all will the same one charge the two to different levels?
Appreciate you answers in advance.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Guys, there is no way to properly balance charge parallel cells. You need to split the pack to do that properly. It doesn't matter if it is 2P or 4P pack, the balancer will always see the highest voltage of the cell - the better one from the parallel connection.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Guys, there is no way to properly balance charge parallel cells. You need to split the pack to do that properly. It doesn't matter if it is 2P or 4P pack, the balancer will always see the highest voltage of the cell - the better one from the parallel connection.


...what?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Just an update on this battery that I tested back in post #45 of this thread
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S020905

It now runs my 3x clone about 1 1/2 hours.....so I've lost about a 1/2 hour of run time.

In the meantime.....the Xeccon / MTBRevolution 6600 hardcase battery is going strong and hasn't lost any run time.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

MK96 said:


> Guys, there is no way to properly balance charge parallel cells. You need to split the pack to do that properly. It doesn't matter if it is 2P or 4P pack, the balancer will always see the highest voltage of the cell - the better one from the parallel connection.





Kir said:


> ...what?


Sorry MK96 but you have the wrong end of the stick.

It is not actually possible for parallel cells to become unbalanced - once you wire them together, they will maintain exactly the same voltage, at all times.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Also if the pana mAh is higher do I need a different charger all will the same one charge the two to different levels?


Panasonic uses "classic" 4.20V voltage for full charge: this is one of main reasons why it's so popular as a replacement cell for other equipment. You don't need to use special charger: existing one will do fine.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Technically if one cell from the parallel connection fails, they will maintain voltage, but not the capacity.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

MK96, you're perfectly right but this is not about 'life sucks and then you die', this is about balancing. If one member (no matter what capacity, no matter how many parallel cells) of the 2S battery goes out, the battery is going down. Sometimes life does suck and this can happen to any battery, Panasonic or Sanyo. That is why buyng a 2S(no-matter-how-many-P) battery that does not allow balancing is only a great idea when of one wants to prove life does suck.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks MegaVolt, probably I explained it the wrong way. If 1S from the 2S (no matter how many P's) cells die, battery has half of the former voltage and PCB shuts it down. If one cell from the 1S of the 2S battery dies, it will maintain the voltage, but the capacity will be lower - PCB kicks in earlier because the 1S with one failed cell won't provide the needed current for as long as the second - the good - 1S ... That was my idea at the beginning. So wiring cells parallel brings this cons. Cells can go down anytime.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Gharddog03 said:


> Archie-
> 
> Thanks for the testing:thumbsup:. I have been very impressed with my pack. I have this one coming.
> 
> Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay


I have to ask.
Although these may be good batteries....at these prices, why would you buy these over one from Xeccon?Mtbrevolution or Action LED that come with a case and customer support?


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

MK96 - yes any cell can fail, but that would be an accident rather than a system problem.
Yes accidents happen. But not every time - that's why so many of us are still alive.

An unbalanced battery, however, WILL go bad (usually within a year), and this is something to consider no matter what cell quality.

There is no such thing as all cells in a battery with exactly the same internal resistance that will stay the same for good.

Any battery made of cells in series will go out of balance.

That is why it is very important to know if the PCB that comes with a battery supports balancing or not, and if a battery has balancing wires or not.

This is a simple fact that works no matter how good your cells/soldering is, etc. With no way to balance a pack, the cells and soldering quality is just the packaging that sells and not the real deal because few of these unbalanced batteries are going to last more than a year of active use.

Rather than buying an xS battery that does not allow balancing one should consider getting two xP packs, combine them for their 2S purposes and charge separately as two 1S packs.

I did provide a link of how it is done in the RC world where battery life is short and you don't have to wait for a year to see that your money went down the drain because you cannot balance your packs. Here it is again: Air Craft - Electric R/C Aircraft World Shop

The link is only for illustration purposes - I am not associated with that online store, and I intentionally picked a link to the product that is of no interest to anyone here because it's heavy and small capacity.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

the mayor said:


> I have to ask.
> Although these may be good batteries....at these prices, why would you buy these over one from Xeccon?Mtbrevolution or Action LED that come with a case and customer support?


Can you point to any examples? I've briefly surfed ActionLED site: they don't have anything even close to the abovementioned 10200 mAh battery. The biggest I can find there, is MagicShine 6600 mAh - the cost is $72.95 + $18.60 shipping to Estonia. Meanwhile, 10200 mAh from A-OK is $68.00 + $2.95 shipping...


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

I had to cut the test short but got 4.5 hours using my Gemini Olympia on high with the 10200mah. Damn good batteries!:thumbsup:


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> Meanwhile, 10200 mAh from A-OK is $68.00 + $2.95 shipping...


Is that 10200mAh battery really 10200? How long will it actually power a multi LED light?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

MegaVolt said:


> Any battery made of cells in series will go out of balance.


Yes, definitely. But either PCB has balancing capablities or you can add a balancing connector to the pack - but in these packs it is a difficult task (take the heatshrink tube off, ...) Actually that was the main reason I went to Li-po & custom Li-ion packs from 26650 cells.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

the mayor said:


> Is that 10200mAh battery really 10200?


I think, yes.



> How long will it actually power a multi LED light?


About twice as long, if compared to 5100 battery.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MegaVolt said:


> An unbalanced battery, however, WILL go bad (usually within a year), and this is something to consider no matter what cell quality.


According to my personal experience, the problem of 2s battery coming out of balance is a bit exaggerated. Typical MS battery starts to develop it after two- to three years of use - and often, its service life at that time is near the end anyway.

While all of my self-made batteries are equipped with balance leads, two of MS ones (currently in heavy use) lack it, as I've decided to add them later, when/if capacity drop will indicate that balancing is required. Still waiting...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> I think, yes.
> 
> About twice as long, if compared to 5100 battery.


I read that as: you don't know.


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

the mayor - surely you don't mean to say that Archie doesn't know if a double capacity battery will power a light twice as long.

Are you doubting the capacity of NCR18650B stated by Panasonic or do you mean that these batteries are fakes?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

MegaVolt said:


> the mayor - surely you don't mean to say that Archie doesn't know if a double capacity battery will power a light twice as long.
> 
> Are you doubting the capacity of NCR18650B stated by Panasonic or do you mean that these batteries are fakes?


Unless Archie has the battery and has tested it.....he is guessing.
If you believe everything that every company prints about their product....good luck with that.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

the mayor said:


> Is that 10200mAh battery really 10200? How long will it actually power a multi LED light?


No way to know unless one has the info on how much power the particular "multi LED light" draws.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I wonder, what kind of answer one may expect asking questions like "actual runtime of multi-LED light"...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Unless Archie has the battery and has tested it.....he is guessing.
> If you believe everything that every company prints about their product....good luck with that.


Mayor you gave me a good chuckle but I agree. If you buy a battery to prolong your run time at some point you will have to test the endurance of the battery unless you have the equipment designed to do a mAh discharge test.

Here's the thing; Who really wants to do a run time test ( on high ) with a 10200mAh battery? :idea: ...not me said the flea. :smilewinkgrin:

Depending on what lamp you use it could take a REALLY LONG TIME.
For something like a SSX2 clone on high perhaps 5-6 hrs (?) Like was said, no way to know for sure unless you do the test.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> I wonder, what kind of answer one may expect asking questions like "actual runtime of multi-LED light"...


There is no answer. 
There is also no answer to the real capacity of a battery until you test it.
But we both know that.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Mayor you gave me a good chuckle but I agree. If you buy a battery to prolong your run time at some point you will have to test the endurance of the battery unless you have the equipment designed to do a mAh discharge test.
> 
> Here's the thing; Who really wants to do a run time test ( on high ) with a 10200mAh battery? :idea: ...not me said the flea. :smilewinkgrin:
> 
> ...


Last winter I got a single LED lamp from Hi-Max. I put it on the porch with a fan, had a few Manhattens and fell asleep. It was still running 6+ hours later.
I tested the same battery with the SSx2 I got and it was still running at 3 1/2 hours.
Done.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

MegaVolt: Can you point to any retail bike light battery pack that has a protection PCB with the balance function built in? In the year and a half I've been reading here, I have not seen even one mentioned.

Casting about on the net, I've only come across three PCBs with a post charging balance function. They call it "Equilibrium" rather than balancing. [PCM-L02S20-265, PCM-L02S10-760(2S), and PCM-L02S06-336]. Technically I know nothing about this stuff, so maybe one of the battery experts can tell us if any of those are appropriate, or suggest other ones.

The sub $100 hobby chargers seem to handle the balance function after charging. The +$100 models have balance starting at various states during the charge cycle. I doubt many on here (especially those discussing relatively inexpensive packs) are willing to buy that level of charger. It seems like only the serious RC guys, who also bike are making that kind of investment.

I've also seen this inexpensive cell checker & balancer over on on HobbyKing and wondered if it would be worth modding into a pack (or just adding a JST connector so it could be used occasionally.) It would seem to be an economical approach for those that want to use the standard "wall wart" MS style bike light chargers.

The first mention of Hunk Lee / A-OK battery was in post 248 on this thread. The battery linked to in that post had a JST connector. People asked what the extra wires were for. As per post 380, Mr. Lee seems to be quite responsive and will add or remove connectors on request.

Your link to the packs on Aircraft World may have made immediate sense to an RC guy, but it was just two packs and some wires to me. Your concept of charging parallel packs independently, and connecting them in series for use may be valid. I think it is beyond most of the guys on here who just want plug their pack into a single charger, then take them off the charger and ride.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ian_C said:


> MegaVolt: Can you point to any retail bike light battery pack that has a protection PCB with the balance function built in? In the year and a half I've been reading here, I have not seen even one mentioned.


AFAIK, Lupine batteries (at least, SmartCore series) have that circuitry. Probably, other high-end brands also implement that, but for price typically asked for such equipment, I see no point ordering that.



> The sub $100 hobby chargers seem to handle the balance function after charging. The +$100 models have balance starting at various states during the charge cycle.


Why do you think so? Even cheap Turnigy charger does that during charge...



> I doubt many on here (especially those discussing relatively inexpensive packs) are willing to buy that level of charger. It seems like only the serious RC guys, who also bike are making that kind of investment.


Balancing chargers are dirt-cheap nowadays. Just for example:
B3AC 7.4V/11.1V 2S/3S LiPo Balance Charger - Black (2-Flat-Pin Plug) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Just saw this "special promotion" today on WallBuys.

3400mAh NCR18650B Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery(Panasonic Battery Cell)-2 pack $15 - Free Shipping


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## MegaVolt (Feb 7, 2004)

Ian_C - I am new to the world of 2S. Most of my LED life was happily spent in the realm of P7 and MC-E - I made two 8P batteries and used a simple DX charger for them.

I bought two EL34's DIY kits and I still use this light set as a backup light because it has the best beam I've seen for forest use - 'no bright spot side spill' eye torture - just a cone of light directed where I need it.

At some point I realized that my preparations for a two days' ride start two days in advance even though my extrawheel is fully packed: it simply took more than 24 hours to charge a pack with an 1A charger. I then ordered a 4-channel Turnigy charger and three 6,000+mAh lipos that had no problem with 5 amps charging current. (I usually take three batteries with me (one for myself, one for my wife, plus a backup battery)).

By the time I noticed )) the whole new class of 7.2 V bike lights I also started seeing complaints of these batteries going out of order (moste often because they would go out of balance) within a season of active use. This was discussed on all bike forums and was hard to miss.

When it was my turn to go from 3.6V to 7.2V, I took two lipos and put them in series.

I have seen Panasonic cells keep 80% of their nominal capacity for 4+ years of regular use in old Lenovo batteries and I am not going to spend $200 on, say, Mr. Lee's batteries with top notch cells that will fail on me in two years because of a design flaw.

*One very important thing to consider is balancing current*. Most of smart RC chargers (including those up to $100) will have 200mA or 300mA balancing current. That basically means that your 5,000+ mAh 2S battery * take another 5 hours to balance once it's finally charged*.

So having two separate batteries to charge separately and the right 'wire harness' is a much much better idea to me than dealing with a balance wire/balancing PCB when it comes to todays' capacities of 5,000+ mAh. I also think that getting a high capacity 2S battery made of good and expensive cells that could work for years but will go out of balance in the first (or second) summer is a real shame and an offense to the manufacturer of those cells (be it Sony, Samsung, Sanyo or Panasonic, whatever... tastes do differ).


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Guys are there still issues with shipping batteries from China by airmail?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I believe yes. I asked for quote for express shipping from hunk lee and eas told its not possible. Also the place where I ordered my lights told me he could only ship with no battery. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Guys are there still issues with shipping batteries from China by airmail?


Yes but it depends on the vendor doing the shipping as to how they are dealing with it. Some say that they just can't ship batteries... period. With others they will ship to another location first and then ship by air. At best it is a hit or miss roll of the dice if you are buying the stuff from China. I'm still waiting on my Hunklee battery. Should be here sometime this week.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...I'm still waiting on my Hunklee battery. Should be here sometime this week.


! ( Woo-Hoo! ) My Hunk Lee 2-cell ( 3400mAh Panasonic ) battery is here! Got it Thursday. I have it on the charger as I write. I should note here that the shrink wrap on the cells has open areas so if you plan to use it without any kind of bag it would be a good idea to add some more shrink wrap, duck tape, plastic dip...or whatever. I think he probably does this so the buyers can see the cells and verify that they are indeed Panasonics.

FYI....took 16 days to get to me. That's the same amount of time a D/X shipment takes to get to me so no surprises there.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> shrink wrap on the cells has open areas so if you plan to use it without any kind of bag it would be a good idea to add some more shrink wrap, *duck tape*, plastic dip...or whatever.


Here's my duct tape job from yesterday.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Wow that seems fast. Good for you!
I ordered a bike mirror 30 days ago and the tracking only now says that it left Singapore a few days ago.
Especially with the Xmas traffic. I don't have much hope that my stuff will arrive this year.
The light is here (Jexree Owl), 2 of them actually, but no way to use them till I get the other stuff. To make things worst, I ordered every thing from a different supplier (no one had all 4 part that I needed).
For battery I got from Banggood.com that someone else linked earlier (with the coupon). Much cheaper than Hunk Lee. 8-cell (3400mAh Panasonic) Protected Ended up costing $50. Hunk Lee has basically the same pack 13600mAh for $86 (not the protected cell, but a soldered protection circuit).
As this is a high capacity pack, I didn't want the cheapest chines charger (most are just 1A), but rather got a Magicshine charger clone that does 1.8A ( MagicShine MJ 6012 Replacement Charger for MagicShine LED Bike Headlight | eBay ).
Considering the long run. I had a wild idea. I used to RC way back and remember how important balancing was. Batteries didn't last long and every extra MINUTE that you could fly your plain mattered (I had a jet for example that was 8 minutes max with one charger, but it did go up to 100mph). Anyway, back to the topic. With my limited knowledge of electronics, especially batteries. I considered that balancing would indeed be useful for bike light packs, however certainly not as much as in the RC LiPos case.
Charging this 13.6A cell would take forever (see MegaVolts explanation a few post above this post), so would be a drag to do after every ride. However I think I would get more or less the same result if I did it once a month or once every 2 months. With that I would still get the same end results. That is a relatively balances pack at any given time. But without the downside of 24+ hours charging after each ride.
I decided not to solder the cells together, but rather get 2 of the waterproof 4-cell container mentioned somewhere in the tread ( Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay ). Yes I know that protected cell is a tight fit, but it can fit.
This way I don't need to solder balance wires, I don't need extra shrink warping and waterproofing.
I just use the box as normal (light and charge) and if I want to balance, then I open it and take out the cells.
Also it makes the system completely reconfigurable. I can replace the cells individual if any/all go bad.
All I need to buy now is a reliable but cheap balancer (maybe the B6).

TO sum it up, I believe this a way better route that Hunk Lee. To make a direct comparison:


 a.) Hunk Lee *13600mAh Panasonic 8-cell pack*, with protection circuit and simple shrink wrap-----------*$86*



 b.) *13600mAh Panasonic 8-cell*, with individual cell protection and *with* 2x 4-cell *solid waterproof casing* with Velcro bike attachment included---------------$50+ (2x $13) = *$76*

The later not only being cheaper, but has a case and bag that is waterproof and is reusable/reconfigurable (with new cells), practical forever. I almost went the Mr. Lee route, but *Dir* brought my attention to the fact that that his (Hunk Lee) options are not as cheap as they are made out to be.

P.S: I want to say thank you to all you guys. You were all great help!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

... I gave up having 100's of various chargers about 2 years ago. I bought LogicRC Emperor - was quite expensive utimate and universal solution, but charges everything and can be connected to a PC to put out some data from dis/charge process. It handles ni-cd/mh, li-ion/pol/fepo4 stuff, it has a 20 programs memory, 2 channels, etc. It can be powered from a spare/old laptop dc power source up to 600W DC power source in case you like to charge your lipo quickly just some minutes before ride. And I do balance charge everytime I charge li-xxx cells. I gave cheap chargers that came together with chinese lights to my friends as a spare.

@oalex100 this pannovo DX case is a nice 18650 cell solution for everyone, so you took a good choice. There are tons of balancers at hobbyking.com - choose one you like.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

MK96 said:


> ... I gave up having 100's of various chargers about 2 years ago. I bought LogicRC Emperor - was quite expensive utimate and universal solution, but charges everything and can be connected to a PC to put out some data from dis/charge process. It handles ni-cd/mh, li-ion/pol/fepo4 stuff, it has a 20 programs memory, 2 channels, etc. It can be powered from a spare/old laptop dc power source up to 600W DC power source in case you like to charge your lipo quickly just some minutes before ride. And I do balance charge everytime I charge li-xxx cells. I gave cheap chargers that came together with chinese lights to my friends as a spare.
> 
> @oalex100 this pannovo DX case is a nice 18650 cell solution for everyone, so you took a good choice. There are tons of balancers at hobbyking.com - choose one you like.


I have one of those nice hobby chargers from all-battery that I use and has the port for balancing packs through a separate connector but none of my litho packs have that extra port. How are you balance charging your packs with your charger?

Do you really need to balance every time or can you do it every 4-5 charges?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I can take my 26650 cells out of the pack, put it in 1P config and balance charge them using jst-xh connector and charge leads. My li-po battery has balance connectors, so there is no problem. Even if the pack doesn't have balance connector, you can add one of your choice. Of course you need access to either the cells and nickel strips welded to the cells or to the PCB and solder the connector to PCB.

I use to balance every charging, but even every 4-5 is OK. Balance charging should take care of that all cells are worn equally.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> ... I gave up having 100's of various chargers about 2 years ago. I bought LogicRC Emperor - was quite expensive utimate and universal solution, but charges everything and can be connected to a PC to put out some data from dis/charge process. It handles ni-cd/mh, li-ion/pol/fepo4 stuff, it has a 20 programs memory, 2 channels, etc. It can be powered from a spare/old laptop dc power source up to 600W DC power source in case you like to charge your lipo quickly just some minutes before ride. And I do balance charge everytime I charge li-xxx cells. I gave cheap chargers that came together with chinese lights to my friends as a spare.
> 
> @oalex100 this pannovo DX case is a nice 18650 cell solution for everyone, so you took a good choice. There are tons of balancers at hobbyking.com - choose one you like.


Thanks for the advice MK. Do you have the 712B or the 702?. Its definitely one hell of a charger. Very epic! Price is high too. If I was still actively RC-ing, I would consider it, but that is still far in the future and technology moves so fast. I mean mostly the extra high speed charging that you are capable of with that beast.
Now that you mention it. I do like the option to be able to analyze cells once in a while. I have all kinds of rechargeable in the house hold. Also some times I see (in local) for sales ads, some folks selling Samsung cells for $4. There are only two possibilities: a.) they are fake, b.) they are ripped from some overstocked or stolen laptop pack, etc.
Obviously I would only be interested in such if its option (b). However I wont be able to tell till I analyze them.

For me I am considering something like the below. It can match the Emperor in everything,, except output, dual channel and probably quality. However it has extra features which might be fun. For example apart from USB for PC control and analysis, it has build in Bluetooth control via smart-phone. It has apps for both Android and Iphone.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know how practical this is, but it seems fun. The reviews about it seem ok. User too say its ok on forums that I have read. Its $80 or less so not too pricey. Emperor is over $300 I believe.









Here is the product page: SKYRC 6x80+ Blue Version Charger

Here is a nice video: Overview of the Skyrc 6x80 + Bluetooth Function - YouTube


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## Vilendank (Oct 4, 2013)

Just thought I'd mention that the cord for my pannovo case broke it's shield at the female connector. No undue abuse was directed at the lighting system, but it has been subjected to ≥-10c climate, so it is likely that the low temps stiffened the plastic too much to flex, resulting in the break. Not a big deal as I was going to replace the connection anyway.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah the temp will do that. I also plan a changing the cords and connectors on both the case and lamp. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have emperor 702 - the older one and was something about $200 in local shop. But that skyrc 80w charger seems to be a good and much cheaper alternative with a lot of features and ac/dc power choice.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

$200 is a very very good price. I am in the EU and it is ~$300 the places I looked. We are doomed with high VAT (19-30% depending on which country) but the most frustrating is the 1 euro = 1 dollar according to most global/branded manufacturers pricing, however the value of 1 euro is more than 1 dollar. This way almost always end up paying way more for everything, but getting the same product.

I did some more research yesterday and one great charger that is getting very good review it the new one top of the line from iCharger. The iCharger 308 Duo and the big brother 4010 Duo. Make sure to check it out, its a 2013 model, so has all the bells and whistles.

Product page: ProgressiveRC - iCharger 308Duo

RC racers Forum discussing it: ICHARGER 308 Duo - R/C Tech Forums

I am really tempted, but can justify it + a Power adapter. Soonest I would restart RC is 2 years. Till then it would just be Li-ion cells (bike) and some AA NiMHs for random stuff in the house. The later being a very rear occasion.

@All: Apologies for going a bit off topic. Promise its the last one or close to it


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

MK96 said:


> I can take my 26650 cells out of the pack, put it in 1P config and balance charge them using jst-xh connector and charge leads. My li-po battery has balance connectors, so there is no problem. Even if the pack doesn't have balance connector, you can add one of your choice. Of course you need access to either the cells and nickel strips welded to the cells or to the PCB and solder the connector to PCB.
> 
> I use to balance every charging, but even every 4-5 is OK. Balance charging should take care of that all cells are worn equally.


I don't mind striping the shrink wrap off my packs and soldering on a balance port. Going to each cell is doable but if I can go strait to the PCB board that would be much easier. Do you know of any good resources or DIY on how to add a balance port? If I need a special PCB for that then I'm not opposed to just buying everything and making my packs from scratch. I tried learning how to make my own packs a few years ago but got very confused on what PCB I needed to use for my 2cell vs 4cell vs 8cell packs and just bought some cheapish from All-Battery instead with no balance port because I didn't know it was important.

On a related note do the Nice hard shell Gloworm light packs have some kind of auto balancer feature built in or am I going to screwed with those going out of balance as well?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vilendank said:


> Just thought I'd mention that the cord for my pannovo case broke it's shield at the female connector. No undue abuse was directed at the lighting system, but it has been subjected to ≥-10c climate, so it is likely that the low temps stiffened the plastic too much to flex, resulting in the break. Not a big deal as I was going to replace the connection anyway.
> View attachment 852597


I just noticed in you picture that you have some "greed" rubber for strapping the light. I guess those are not the ones you revived with the light (I got some black). Did you find it lacking? Where did you get those ones? Are they noticeably better?

I know I hate when I go over some bad roads (especially the ones with those little square paves) and the bike rattles like hell and the light move forward so I need to readjust them.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You either need a balance charger that will do the balance charging or you need a PCB with balancing capability. I went for balance charger and I am using jst-xh balance connectors and simple protection PCB with 3V cutoff. For 2S pack the connector has 3 wires no matter how much xP pack it is, so 2S4P, 2S2P and 2S1P have just 3 wires. For 4S pack it is 5 wires conn, etc ... I buy the connectors & wires in our local shops - they are really cheap also on ebay. DYI for balance charging was referred many times here on the forums I think from this source and I found also a very good one here. I would add this connector to the packs mentioned in this thread if I had them to charge them properly.



RojoRacing53 said:


> I don't mind striping the shrink wrap off my packs and soldering on a balance port. Going to each cell is doable but if I can go strait to the PCB board that would be much easier. Do you know of any good resources or DIY on how to add a balance port? If I need a special PCB for that then I'm not opposed to just buying everything and making my packs from scratch. I tried learning how to make my own packs a few years ago but got very confused on what PCB I needed to use for my 2cell vs 4cell vs 8cell packs and just bought some cheapish from All-Battery instead with no balance port because I didn't know it was important.
> 
> On a related note do the Nice hard shell Gloworm light packs have some kind of auto balancer feature built in or am I going to screwed with those going out of balance as well?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Basically you only need one more wire, to be able to balance the pack for our 2S setups (as MK96 explain) no matter how many P.
Why I say 1 more only, is that you can get the other 2 (of the 3 total) by cutting into the mains, that you already have.
I dont know if I am explaining this well. If you can get one extra wire to unto the pack (where the 2 cell s meet in series) and bring that out. Then you are basically good to go.
Many hobby balance chargers can charge even without the main connected (just the balancer). So its e very simple job to cut into the two main (+/-) and then derive two wires from there and the third one from the pack as I explained. And you have your 3 pole adapter that you can connect to the balancer.
If its not clear I can draw you a picture.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Just keep smiling I am in the EU too  Found Emperor for about $205 here without shipping, but use google translate ;-)



oalex100 said:


> $200 is a very very good price. I am in the EU and it is ~$300 the places I looked. We are doomed with high VAT (19-30% depending on which country) but the most frustrating is the 1 euro = 1 dollar according to most global/branded manufacturers pricing, however the value of 1 euro is more than 1 dollar. This way almost always end up paying way more for everything, but getting the same product.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> Just keep smiling I am in the EU too  Found Emperor for about $205 here without shipping, but use google translate ;-)


Hahah. Where in EU, UK?
Very good find. Slovakia is just beside Hungary so shipping can't be much. I have to confess I was only looking at prices for the 712B (not the old model) yesterday and I was finding 200GBP.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I just got it! I bought mine here! But the 2x300W version, now they have 2x500W for a nice price. Raytronic is (almost) the same as Fusion(and I have Fusion).


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

Vilendank said:


> Just thought I'd mention that the cord for my pannovo case broke it's shield at the female connector. No undue abuse was directed at the lighting system, but it has been subjected to ≥-10c climate, so it is likely that the low temps stiffened the plastic too much to flex, resulting in the break. Not a big deal as I was going to replace the connection anyway.
> View attachment 852597


Where can you get replacement connectors from?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

mark__gti said:


> Where can you get replacement connectors from?


Here you go Bro. Waterproof DC Jacket Connector Electrical Male/Female DC Connector for 5050 3528 | eBay









However these: 10 Kit 2 Pin Way Waterproof Electrical Wire Connector Plug | eBay







are more solid and no need for "_screwing_" around (they have a click-lock mechanism as you can see), also you can use what ever cable you like with them (as in good quality). No the el-chepo that is attached to the Magicshine version that brakes at negative temperature.
The down side is you have to change the plugs on everything involved (battery, charger and lights). They don't really cost money as you can see (10 pcs kit for ~$3). The Magicshine ones a way overpriced. Its just the hassle of soldering new mains and **** into all the appliances involved.
I am still contemplating if which route to go. The later will last longer I think.


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

How 'Waterproof'n do the connectors have to be? i received a Yinding light over the weekend and it has crap connectors


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I personally don't think you can short those due to rain. Only thing to consider is corroding on the long run, if it get moist at random. Thats just my humble and illiterate opinion. You better get some answers from some of our expert forum mates.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I have a dumb question:

If you put 4 x 3100 mAh single cells into a 4 pack adapter/holder do you end up with a 12400 mAh pack?


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## mark__gti (Nov 17, 2013)

derekbob said:


> I have a dumb question:
> 
> If you put 4 x 3100 mAh single cells into a 4 pack adapter/holder do you end up with a 12400 mAh pack?


No, you end up with a 6200 may pack


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

it depends how are the cells wired: series/parallel?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

mark__gti said:


> No, you end up with a 6200 may pack


No :nono:, he could end up with 12400 if he went all parallel (3.6V). He never said he needed 7.4V.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

TBH I don't even know what voltage I need. I'm looking to get some high capacity packs to run 2 x 2013 Gemini Olympias for 2 to 3 hours on high. I don't mind running two packs but one would be ideal.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

derekbob said:


> TBH I don't even know what voltage I need. I'm looking to get some high capacity packs to run 2 x 2013 Gemini Olympias.


And you don't bother to check? I know I am lazy, but JEzz.

Its 7.4V like more Bike light. Connected in parallel to the pack. You will need nothing less than 3400x*8* 2S4P (aka Panasonic) to drive those on high for the time you want. Or you could get two separate packs of 2S2P same cells (making it 6800 each pack) and drive the lights independently. You can buy some pre-made packs from Hunk Lee. As recommended by folks on this tread, just read back.

May I ask, what you need two of those for on constant high continuously?


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

oalex100 said:


> And you don't bother to check? I know I am lazy, but JEzz.
> 
> Its 7.4V like more Bike light. Connected in parallel to the pack. You will need nothing less than 3400x*8* 2S4P (aka Panasonic) to drive those on high for the time you want. Or you could get two separate packs of 2S2P same cells (making it 6800 each pack) and drive the lights independently. You can buy some pre-made packs from Hunk Lee. As recommended by folks on this tread, just read back.
> 
> May I ask, what you need two of those for on constant high continuously?


I don't need two of those for on constant high continuously, but I would like to be able to head out for a 4 hour ride and not worry about running out of juice. I know its overkill, but I'm a light junkie. Thanks for the advice, I have been looking at HunkLee batteries, they look sweet.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Fwiw I have been running the olympia about 3 hours on high give or take on the 6 cell Gemini battery, the older 8400? Mah version that came with the 8.7v charger. The catch to all this is that the runtime drops drastically in cold weather. What gives you 3 hours in 70 degree ambient temps will give you 2 in brutal cold. I am not sure if this is a concern where you live but a definite issue for me.

If you are settled on a single pack the large hunk lee pack looks promising but I tend to habe issues with the high current draw of the olympia not playing nice with a second light and y cable. I feel that two packs will be a better bet plus its safer should something go awry with one


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

derekbob said:


> TBH I don't even know what voltage I need. I'm looking to get some high capacity packs to run 2 x 2013 Gemini Olympias for 2 to 3 hours on high. I don't mind running two packs but one would be ideal.


*D-Bob also followed and said this;*



> I don't need two of those ( Olympia's ) for on constant high continuously, but I would like to be able to head out for a 4 hour ride and not worry about running out of juice. I know its overkill, but I'm a light junkie. Thanks for the advice, I have been looking at HunkLee batteries, they look sweet.


Since you want to run two high powered lamps it is really hard to give advise but I will try. I think there are two ways to look at this; you can run two lamps on high with the biggest / highest capacity cells available then hope you get 4 hours OR you can use smaller batteries and use just the amount of light that you really need.

One Olympia using a high capacity 4-cell run on high might get you two to two and half hours run time. Now if you run the lamp with the same battery but kick it back to a nice 600-700 lumen range you might get close to that 4 hour mark.

If I were going to use a two Olympia set up ( on the bars ) I would likely do the following.....Find me a really high capacity 7.4 volt Li-Po battery capable of handling a very high current output or find a high capacity Panasonic 6-cell setup....step two, hook it up to a Y-cable to the Olympia's. ...#3, set one Olympia on a nice 300-400 lumen level and just let it run. Then I would use the other Olympia ( as normal ) to add or lessen the amount of light that I might need at any given moment.

Using the lamps this way when both lamps are on the 400 lumen setting you end up with an actual 800 lumen output BUT it is a MORE efficient 800 lumen. And so it goes, a 400+1500 high level gets you near 2000 lumen. That's a lot of light. If you want max output for that fast down hill you can always switch both to high but if it were me I think once you get into the 2000 lumen range it really won't make much of a difference but that is just my opinion.

Summing up, if you run both lamps within a reasonable output ( ~ 600-800 lumen combined output ) at least 80% of the time you should be able to get a 4 hour run time if you have a good battery set-up and know how to use it.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm currently running 2x MJ6030H 5600mAh batteries which work great but a single unit to take their place would be awesome.
I'm thinking of something like this:

Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 13600mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S4PHM | eBay

I currently have enough light stuff to ride anywhere I'm able with plenty of light so it's on the back burner.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

I have two Olympia's and my 6030h can not handle the two Olympia's on high. To much draw. The Olympia's will immediately start flashing red. I tried the hunk lee 10200mah and they run good. I usually run my Olympia's at 80% to be safe. Hunk Lee batteries are sweet.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

^as these guys have said, dialing the output of the high setting to 80 percent give or take isnt all that noticable and makes a big difference. When its cold I scale back to 80 and it brings my runtimes back


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Go for high current discharge Li-po and flashing will go away. These cells holds the same capacity even when discharged by 30C current. But you will have some other issues - the space the cells will take, probably the charger to charge it and maybe some more. But nothing that can't be solved.

I use that one for about a year:











Cat-man-do said:


> *D-Bob also followed and said this;*
> If I were going to use a two Olympia set up ( on the bars ) I would likely do the following.....Find me a really high capacity 7.4 volt Li-Po battery capable of handling a very high current output ...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Lol big heavy stuff. Miss those RC days.

Still I consider it too much of a risk and can see that thing exploding right between your legs. I would only risk it in a solid container, that a tree branch can't pierce during a fall. Easy way to go impotent.  

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is in a bag with some pads and insulation - thermal also, so branch can't hurt it. And it is not very heavy - about 350g for battery & bag under my saddle. It won't explode between my legs, it is protected with 3V cutoff & monitored with very noisy RC lipo alarm. As we have a baby now I like security


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

BTW dont lipo's have much less recharge cycles than Li-ion? 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

They are widely used not only in android cell phones, so if you handle it with care they last as long as li-ion.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I'm not sure about the number of recharge cycles on Li-po's so that is a question I'll have to look up. As far as a Li-Po battery getting punctured....ehhh....not likely to happen but if the battery is "hard cased" or protected in some way it shouldn't be an issue. The real issue would be finding a good solution to mounting the dang thing as Li-Po's tend to be be oddly shaped and usually don't come with a standard MS type connector plug. The advantage of Li-Po of course is that they are generally capable of supplying a higher output current than standard Li-ion packs. Not usually an issue unless you want to power more than one high powered lamp off of one battery.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I hope that I won't have current draw problems with my 2 owls.+another 350mA that i need for something else. I don't know what they need on high. But I don't think 2x 2S2P 3400 Panasonic should have a problem with that. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

MK96 said:


> You either need a balance charger that will do the balance charging or you need a PCB with balancing capability. I went for balance charger and I am using jst-xh balance connectors and simple protection PCB with 3V cutoff. For 2S pack the connector has 3 wires no matter how much xP pack it is, so 2S4P, 2S2P and 2S1P have just 3 wires. For 4S pack it is 5 wires conn, etc ... I buy the connectors & wires in our local shops - they are really cheap also on ebay. DYI for balance charging was referred many times here on the forums I think from this source and I found also a very good one here. I would add this connector to the packs mentioned in this thread if I had them to charge them properly.


Ok so I looked at your first link and it was super helpful so thanks. One thing ill still ask is according to the link each 7.4v LILO pack only has two battery cells and each of these cells can have multiple individual cells to increase your overall battery capacity. So in the diagram for wiring up a balance connector you only need to go to each battery pack cell and not necessarily each individual cell. This is nice because its much simpler then I had thought but makes me me wonder why the individual cells on one side of the pack don't become imbalanced among themselves?

Also if I get individually protected cells do I still need to wire in a pcb?

For those of you that have LIPo packs with a balance connector what do you do with it while the pack is mounted on the bike? I kinda need this stuff to be water resistant if no proof. I normally just pasti dip all my packs after they are shrink wrapped but I'm not sure what to do with the exposed balance connector.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes 7.4V li-po/li-ion has 2 cells and more can be wired parallel to them and you need just 3 balancing wires. About the imbalance among the cells in parallel connection ... well it should not happen, but you never know. I wrote some tech ideas in this thread recently. On the other hand parallel connection is widely used in notebooks where you can have 12 cell battery in 3s4p config and cells are balanced & worn quite properly. But these cells are not a cheap stuff and their internal resistance should be nearly the same - but that is only what I am thinking about.

Individually protected cells don't need to be attached to any PCB, they have each their own PCB already.

my li-po's home is in this bag under the saddle wih some extras but from an other seller - this one has never arrived. The bag is capable of accomodating 2 of those 8000mAh li-pos still protecting them well. It might not be water proof, but seems to be water resistant and suit my needs. The balance connector uses my li-po low voltage warning alarm that aslo monitors each cell threshold and can be set from 2.8 to 3.6 (I use 3.0).



RojoRacing53 said:


> This is nice because its much simpler then I had thought but makes me me wonder why the individual cells on one side of the pack don't become imbalanced among themselves?
> 
> Also if I get individually protected cells do I still need to wire in a pcb?
> 
> For those of you that have LIPo packs with a balance connector what do you do with it while the pack is mounted on the bike? I kinda need this stuff to be water resistant if no proof. I normally just pasti dip all my packs after they are shrink wrapped but I'm not sure what to do with the exposed balance connector.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Good ideas with the lipos. But I'll stick with using them for my planes.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> BTW dont lipo's have much less recharge cycles than Li-ion?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


After doing some searching their doesn't seem to be a a big difference in cycle life between Li-Po and Li-ion ( unless I'm missing something.. ). Reading up on it though I did find some interesting facts. Rarely do Li-ion batteries arrive to the consumer at their listed capacity. This was no surprise to me but I thought others might find it interesting.

When it comes to "how many *cycles will a Li-battery get"?, the usual answer is , "Somewhere between *300-500 cycles. ( * from 4.2volt to 3volt...full discharge ) That's because there are a variety of factors that play into determining what the useful life of a battery is. Those factors are as follows:

1) _DoD_...otherwise known as _Depth of Discharge_. The deeper the discharge the faster the battery will age. If you routinely do a 50% DoD you can double the amount of useable discharge cycles ( *according to Battery University ) Still, other factors play a part in determining this issue as well.

2) High storage or operating temperatures along with extreme current drains also factor in to shortening the batteries useable life span although Li-Po is known for being able to handle both higher charge and discharge rates when compared to standard Li-ion technology.

2) Peak Charge. Peak charge for Li-batteries is 4.2 volts per cell. Battery life can be extended if the battery is only brought to 4 volts. Doing this though lowers the useable capacity of the battery by about 30%. For most people this is not a practical way to extend battery life BUT once again it has a lot to do with the starting capacity of a battery, the expected DoD and how well the user chooses to otherwise, "baby", their battery.

Interestingly, Battery University had graph of a typical single Li-Po cell cycle run down. Starting with new Li-po cells ( 88-94% of listed capacity ) At 250 full discharge cycles the actual starting capacities dropped to between 73-84% of the initial starting capacities. BU went on to explain that most manufacturers of batteries over-rate their batteries. No surprise there. Personally, I would consider anything within 80% of ( new battery ) initial capacity a quite useable battery.

Summing up, a lot depends on the needs and opinion of the user as to just what constitutes a useable battery capacity. If you have a battery with a larger initial capacity and rarely discharge it fully you should get many years of useable life from your Li-ion, Li-po battery. Learning how to baby the battery a little to extend the "useable life" can't hurt.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I wouldn't write it better  Great explanation.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Just an FYI

I bought one of those 19 dollar delivered cheap batteries, 6.6ah 6 cell. 

I tested it on my Dinotte XML-3 and it ran 2:05 on high before the light flashed red and another 1/2 hour before it went out. Just to make sure, I plugged it into a cheap 1 XML clone and it still ran it though the light head was on red.

So I'm guessing the battery is actually about 4.0ah as the original Dinotte batteries were 4.4ah (4-cell) and ran the light head on high when new about 2:20 before they flashed red. I never discharged them. They are on their 3rd season and now last about 1:20 on high before they go red.

So I'd say w/ the cheap batteries you can do a fast figure of 60% of the stated AH as actual.

For 19 bucks delivered, I guess if I can get 2 seasons I'm doing good.


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## synodbio (Mar 21, 2013)

Car battery failures are the most frequent motoring problem, so how do you avoid them?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Has anyone tried the first battery listed in cat-man-do's table at the beginning of this thread? Its from what I believe to be a china seller (light box) and uses 4x 28650 cells. I doubt it comes close to rated capacity but even if its 60 or 70 percent its still a cheap option for those who need extended run times but dont care about the weight. It is currently on sale for 22 dollars so I may give it a try


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Received my Panasonic NCR18650B 7.4V 3400mAh from Hunk Lee in 12 days. Can't ID the cells through the wrapping.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Since we were also talking about balance charging our packs, I have a reliable source of various PCBs and some of them have balance charging capabilities: Protection Board for 2 Packs 8 4V Li ion Lithium 18650 Battery O P 7A w Balance | eBay

I don't use PCBs with balance charging Those who would like to just have to swap their PCBs for something similiar I posted here. There is a lot of stuff with led indications etc ... If you do balance charging use a powersource of about 1A, because the heat will dissipate from the PCB when balancing.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Hi MK, 
I was considering something similar, but only after I already ordered protected cells. So no longer useful for me. However I will maybe go this route the next time. 
I have to confess I am not sure how well this things do compared to a high end balancing charger. Either one has to be underwhelming or the other over hyped. They can't both be just as good I feel. Things like precision and whatnot. 
Anyway I think we are already over doing it. We were all able to go down the same trail with similar speed 5-10 years ago and most of use did not have 1-2000 lumens. Hell we were happy with 10th of that with halogen and NiMH cells.
Few years from now we might be looking back and laughing at lithium as power source. Who knows. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

pigmode said:


> Received my Panasonic NCR18650B 7.4V 3400mAh from Hunk Lee in 12 days. Can't ID the cells through the wrapping.


Don't doubt us, we never cheat anyone in the world, as we want to do long-term business with worldwide customers.
PVC heat shrink tube can protect inside battery and PCM from short-circuit and water in. Also looked nice than nade.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Both my packs from HunkLee have performed flawlessly.:thumbsup:


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Thank you!
We will list such battery pack with cells from Samsung, Panasonic, Sanyo etc as well as by 26650 4500MAH.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I haven't tried them, my 2S PCB from this seller meets the exact specs given by them, so I suppose the other PCBs are woking also as advertised.

Aaaaaaah yes, the good old times on a hardtail with stiff front fork and alkaline/ni-mh halogen light  Technology makes a giant leaps todays ...



oalex100 said:


> I have to confess I am not sure how well this things do compared to a high end balancing charger. Either one has to be underwhelming or the other over hyped. They can't both be just as good I feel.
> 
> Anyway I think we are already over doing it. We were all able to go down the same trail with similar speed 5-10 years ago and most of use did not have 1-2000 lumens. Hell we were happy with 10th of that with halogen and NiMH cells.
> Few years from now we might be looking back and laughing at lithium as power source. Who knows.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> Has anyone tried the first battery listed in cat-man-do's table at the beginning of this thread? Its from what I believe to be a china seller (light box) and uses 4x 28650 cells. I doubt it comes close to rated capacity but even if its 60 or 70 percent its still a cheap option for those who need extended run times but dont care about the weight. It is currently on sale for 22 dollars so I may give it a try


Yes, that battery is very tempting isn't it. Just keep in mind that it is the one battery I issued a warning on ( see post #16 and the following photo's that accompany it ).

Could of been the guy just got a bad one. If someone else wants to roll the dice on one I'd love to read about how well it might work. Just keep in mind that this battery is a little big and little heavy. It will need a good size pouch to fit the battery.



synodbio said:


> Car battery failures are the most frequent motoring problem, so how do you avoid them?


This is of course OT; If you keep your car more than 4 years replace the car battery before the cold season on the fifth year. If your car battery is still working after five years you got more than your moneys worth. After 5 years just replace it before it dies ( which it will and usually at the worst possible time ) 

Quick tip, if you buy a used car be sure to check the battery BEFORE you drive it off the lot. If it looks old have the dealer replace it. Doing this will save you a tow bill as used car dealers like to scrimp on things like batteries.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Gharddog03 said:


> Both my packs from HunkLee have performed flawlessly.:thumbsup:


V

I plan to order the 6800 mAh pac next. Could wish these used magicshine connectors, but oh well.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

pigmode said:


> V
> 
> I plan to order the 6800 mAh pac next. Could wish these used magicshine connectors, but oh well.


*I really don't get you guys...*

Why not make your own pack? *Cheaper*, *better* (waterproof case and Velcro pouch too, so you can easily attach it to your bike) and you end up with *Magicshine connector*. Also can replace cells individually on the long run or just remove them for balancing.

2x 2 pcs (4 total) Protected Panasonic 3400 (6800mAh) Link (only $16.5 use *coupon* "*bgf120*" at checkout) = *$33* (_Just to be clear, this is exactly the same batter as the one you are considering, only individual protection and not a single circuit one. So quality and capacity are the same._).

1x Panovo 18650 *waterproof* Battery Pack Case Link = *$13*

That is a total of *$43*! (*instead of $48* that you are planning to spend on the Hunk Lee version)

*Please explain to me* how this is better??? Any option you look at (no matter what capacity you go for), my recommendation above still turns out cheaper. It is an honest question. You are not the first person with similar intentions recently here, so I must be missing something. That is why I ask.

Don't get me wrong, Hunk's packs have been perfect. I even considered it initially (We even had correspondence). But then Dir brought it to my attention that they are not as good of a bargain (as best price/value option available) as one might initially think. So you see, you have a WAY better alternative and you even save some bucks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> *I really don't get you guys...*
> 
> Why not make your own pack? *Cheaper*, *better* (waterproof case and Velcro pouch too, so you can easily attach it to your bike) and you end up with *Magicshine connector*. Also can replace cells individually on the long run or just remove them for balancing.
> 
> ...


You make some good points but being BETTER is not about just shaving a couple bucks. Some people like "convenience" and so go wtih a pre-made Hung lee type battery. Those people already have the battery bag and charger. The issue here is "choice". When you have choice you get what you want and spend what you want. Choices are good.

Yes, you can buy separate cells and make your battery. Helps if you have a spot welder but it can be done without one...OR...you can use the cell holders. Since these cells holders are popping up all over the place I might just give them a try ( again ) myself.

*@Hunklee*....I'll second the request for the better MagicShine type connectors that have the rubber shield. The connectors with the shielding just seem more secure. A secure connection is better and more preferable. Provide these and you will sell more batteries.

That said, I just noticed that the connectors you use work perfectly with my old DiNotte 600L. Not sure if DiNotte still uses the same type of connectors but if they do consider this a heads-up to people who have the newer DiNotte type lights.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

@cat
But I never said that it was better cause it is cheaper. I clearly stated that it was cheaper AND better. Cheaper as in money. Better as is practicality as listed (Waterproof, solid, bag, option to switch cells if the need arises, magicshine connection, etc. ).
And there is NO soldering involved. You just screw on the top once.

I am not sure why you brought the question of charger up, you need one either way.

You say I make a good point. Well thank you, but I am sorry, YOU don't. We could be talking of choice if were deciding between a BMW or a LEXUS. However in this case I don't see any PROs for one of the options (not a single one). What convenience are you talking about? As a matter of fact you have to spend time and materials to try and make the pre pack moisture proof. 
And yes choices are good, but you make them based on something. You have the choice of buying cheap packs too (half the price). You don't see me recommending that.
My exact question was to understand the choice as I can't see even a single viable/rational aspect on why to go for the more expensive one, when you obviously don't gain anything. Remember we are not talking about clothes here.

Don't get me wrong. If you made your choice in the past. When the better alternative was not known to you, then I have no questions. The people I question are the ones making the decision now. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> @cat...
> 
> You say I make a good point. Well thank you, but I am sorry, YOU don't. We could be talking of choice if were deciding between a BMW or a LEXUS. However un this case I don't see any PROs for one of the options (not one). What convenience are you talking about? As a matter of fact you have to spend time and materials to try and make it moisture proof.
> And yes choices are good, but you make them based on something. You have the choice of buying cheap packs too (half the price). You don't see me recommending that.
> ...


When I spoke of _convenience_ I was implying that some people really don't want to fuss over something like a battery. They want something ready to go right out of the box ( so to speak ) A pre-built battery ( like the Hunklee set-ups ) are pretty much ready to go. Since making the battery more weather resistant is basically a choice the user can use as is or can put it in a battery bag, wrap it in plastic or whatever. Some people don't ride in rain. ( Yeah, I know...rain happens )

Like I've mentioned before in some of my past posts I've used cell holders before but not these new 7.4 volt ones made in China. For me the main advantage of a cell holder is that you can charge the cells individually (if you so wish ) although if you have a 4 cell 7.4 volt charger you can use that as well. When I used the one I have I just got tired of fussing with the holder as the cells tended to move around a bit causing the lamp to go out on occasion. Getting it dialed in was a chore. Hopefully the Chinese ones won't be like the one I had.

Anyway, that was my choice but at the time but I didn't have a 7.4 volt holder, mine was for 14.8 volts ( all cells in series ) and I didn't own a 14.8 volt charger at the time. I had to charge each cell separately. Anyway, I ended up not using that lamp anymore so now I'm back to using pre-assembled 7.4 volt batteries. I like pre-assembled stuff because it's easy. If I get one of those 7.4 volt holders and end up liking it I might just change my choice of set-up. Either way I'm not spending a boat load of money so if the holders work and I have no mounting problem with my bike I will go with it.

Anyway like I said before you made some good points and have given the readers some more options which are always good to have. Thank you for that. Hope this explains my position better.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Dear Cat,

I hope I didn't come out offensive or anything like that. I understand about the hassle of the 14.8v pack and so on. Having to take out all the cells after every use to charge, would indeed be an inconvenience. However in the case I made you don't need to do the above.

Coming back to the *convenience* part, I still think that its a bit far-fetched to say that it is in anyway *inconvenience*, that upon receipt of the parcel, one has to (only once) pop in the cell in the case and screw on the the lid.
You cant be serious calling that inconvenient. Its like saying that pressing the button to turn on the bike light when you go riding is inconvenient. I understand are trying to rationalize a decision, but this (saying it's_ inconvenient_) is going a bit too far.

These Panovo cases are not 2 days old. They have been ordered, used and reviewed by other forum mates. Someone was even nice enough and took it completely apart a made photos for us to see (I can link it if need be). So its not really a risk or blind decision. The plastic is not going to rust away or anything.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Recommend a 4 cell charger too, if you can--I'll need one of those as well. So this battery pack has *proven* to not short under offroad conditions?



oalex100 said:


> *I really don't get you guys...*
> 
> Why not make your own pack? *Cheaper*, *better* (waterproof case and Velcro pouch too, so you can easily attach it to your bike) and you end up with *Magicshine connector*. Also can replace cells individually on the long run or just remove them for balancing.
> 
> ...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Nitecore intellicharger i4 might be OK, it doesn't do balance charging. It is about $19-22 and charges also NI-MH cells.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pigmode said:


> Recommend a 4 cell charger too, if you can--I'll need one of those as well. So this battery pack has *proven* to not short under offroad conditions?


I can't speak to this myself but I've not read yet of anyone having any problems. A four cell holder has the advantage of being more versatile. With it you can use any brand / capacity battery you wish. You can also carry spares with you on a ride. Add to that you only need two cells to make it work so start with four cells when you leave for the ride and carry two cells for back up. In essence you have a 4-6 or 8 cell battery depending on how many cells you want to carry.

The only question I have has to do with the small voltage drops associated with friction battery contacts. Those might have a cumulative effect on how well the charger charges the battery if using a 4-cell charger. Now before you poo-poo this thought according to Battery University just a *0.2volt difference in peak voltage ( *per cell ) of a battery equates to 30% of the initial capacity ( of that cell ). Chargers are voltage sensitive. They will detect every voltage drop in the circuit and stop charging when all those voltage drops reach 8.4 volts. How much of a problem this might be, I don't know but it is food for thought. Now if you can charge the cells individually you have a way around that problem "IF" indeed there is a problem.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm wondering about connectors. I have both kinds and the ones that lock together are more waterproof(shower tested cat?) but maybe the cable strain means they don't last as long. Yes I know I'm not supposed to pull on the cords. 

Hunk do you have a non ebay store? PM please.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks. Further comments, anyone?



Cat-man-do said:


> I can't speak to this myself but I've not read yet of anyone having any problems. A four cell holder has the advantage of being more versatile. With it you can use any brand / capacity battery you wish. You can also carry spares with you on a ride. Add to that you only need two cells to make it work so start with four cells when you leave for the ride and carry two cells for back up. In essence you have a 4-6 or 8 cell battery depending on how many cells you want to carry.
> 
> The only question I have has to do with the small voltage drops associated with friction battery contacts. Those might have a cumulative effect on how well the charger charges the battery if using a 4-cell charger. Now before you poo-poo this thought according to Battery University just a *0.2volt difference in peak voltage ( *per cell ) of a battery equates to 30% of the initial capacity ( of that cell ). Chargers are voltage sensitive. They will detect every voltage drop in the circuit and stop charging when all those voltage drops reach 8.4 volts. How much of a problem this might be, I don't know but it is food for thought. Now if you can charge the cells individually you have a way around that problem "IF" indeed there is a problem.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

oalex100 said:


> These Panovo cases are not 2 days old. They have been ordered, used and reviewed by other forum mates. Someone was even nice enough and took it completely apart a made photos for us to see (I can link it if need be). So its not really a risk or blind decision. The plastic is not going to rust away or anything.


This was not with the Panovo holder so just a general heads up.

My experience with holders that have a spring on one end of the cell and a fixed contact on the other is that a good hit causes one or more of the cells to "bounce" on the spring and lose contact momentarily. Depending on what light one is using, the results of this loss of contact will vary. The light I was using when I discovered this would go into a fast flashing mode for a few seconds after contact was regained. Very unsettling in a fast rough rocky trail section! I have found that the orientation one mounts a single spring holder makes a big difference in how much jarring it takes to break contact. Mounted more or less horizontally like a top tube mount it takes a crazy hit to lose the contact. Bottle cage mount and it lose contact easier. Vertical mounting like to the seat post and it loses contact pretty easily.

I have found that holders with a spring contact on both ends of the cell do not suffer this problem. Soldered/spotwelded packs also do not suffer this problem. Though I personally use holders with springs on each end of the cells, when I sell a light it gets a soldered/spotwelded pack. I do not want the possibility that someone's light blinks out or changes modes in the middle of a rough section.

I'm curious to know if anyone has really put one of the Panovo cases to the test. I would probably use one the next time I build a light if it does not have any chance of losing contact. I don't really want to buy one just to test though.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

With this case, Protected cells are such a tight fit, that I am 110% sure that it's impossible for any shorts to happen as neither battery or spring can move.

As the 2 before me, I have yet to try the case. Mine should arrive this week or next. 
My advice is for you to write pm to members that DO have the case. You can tell them from the comments they made earlier. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@Hunklee*....I'll second the request for the better MagicShine type connectors that have the rubber shield. The connectors with the shielding just seem more secure. A secure connection is better and more preferable. Provide these and you will sell more batteries.


I'll second that request too!!








The other connectors he uses are not waterproo and also don't fit to most of the light out there


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I have been using a panovo case in my jersey pocket for helmet light. No issues. Case is a game changer for me. Love it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Some questions about the Panovo battery holders: Anyone who owns one of these can you provide some feedback about how well they work when mounted to the bike's top tube?
( which is where I would likely mount one ) I'm also wondering what type of 18650 cells you are using, flat top or button top? I ask this because when I use 18650 cells in torches sometimes the flat top cells don't work as well. I figure this phenomenon might carry over to something like a cell holder. As such it is real important to know so you know which type of cell is likely to work better.

Back when I was using a cell holder I only had button top cells. Since then I have purchased the better Panasonic cells which tend to be flat top ( although button tops are available but harder to find ). I've had problems using flat top cells but thankfully I've always been able to make them work. However I figure with these new cell holders that it MIGHT be a factor. Any user feedback would be most welcome.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

ljracer said:


> I have been using a panovo case in my jersey pocket for helmet light. No issues. Case is a game changer for me. Love it.


I would expect having the holder in a pocket to be quite forgiving. I'm mostly interested in how it works when mounted to the seat post. In my experience that is the most likely place to cause a connection failure. It is also my preferred mounting location.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Flat top panasonics 3400s in mine


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> I would expect having the holder in a pocket to be quite forgiving. I'm mostly interested in how it works when mounted to the seat post. In my experience that is the most likely place to cause a connection failure. It is also my preferred mounting location.


Honestly it clamps down with a lot of force. I dont see them moving. But just my observation. I mount my bar batteries in a water bottle.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Who can sale such connector? I will look for it in China market too.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Just contact us by fmabattery(at)hotmail(dot)com for details. Thank you!


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Pls. tell me what kind of connector you wanted, all kinds of...


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Put a magic tab on the top of positive of battery.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HunkLee said:


> Who can sale such connector? I will look for it in China market too.


To buy these you might have to do what everyone elso does, just buy the extension wires and cut the plug off that you want. There is also the "Y" extension cords have two female plugs. Prices range from $2 to $3 each USD.

I'm sure that there are part warehouses that probably sell these separately. You might have to ask over in the DIY section. Someone over there probably has a better answer. Real important though that the quality of the plug/wire not be real *cheap ( * an inferior product )
Inferior plugs will have the wire crack and create open circuits which is not good if you want to maintain a customer base.

The ones you currently use at least look to have strong wire which should hold up over time. If you can find out where MagicShine and Xeccon get their's from you should be good. I'm currently using one of the Xeccon extension wire/connectors for my helmet lamp and it is a real nice looking extension, very sturdy/shielded connector.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> To buy these you might have to do what everyone elso does, just buy the extension wires and cut the plug off that you want. There is also the "Y" extension cords have two female plugs. Prices range from $2 to $3 each USD.


While those are compatible, they are not the screw-on (I mean as in no tread or screw cap on it) waterproof type that don't come off on its own from vibration on bike.
If you are going to do it, then do it right.

















You have these on lots of popular Chines lights (eg Solarstorm X2), so why make compromise again with sub-par solution.

BTW: You know who has compatible plug for these lights at now extra cost??? ....... Yeap, you guessed it, the wateproof cases discussed earlier.  why fight the best solution when its staring you in the face. As I have said numerous times, its not just cheaper, but better too in *yet again* another way...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> While those are compatible, they are not the screw-on (I mean as in no tread or screw cap on it) waterproof type that don't come off on its own from vibration on bike.
> If you are going to do it, then do it right.


Lamps that use the screw-on connector sleeve are recent variations from the original MS battery set-ups. While I'm sure there are people who might want a battery with that type of set-up it is not likely not what the majority of bike light users would want since the MS type connector has been around much longer.

Personally I own both types. The original MS type male plug ( lamp side ) works best with the original "shielded" type female plug. While the lamps with the screw on sleeve work best with the threaded female counter part they also work well with the MS shielded type connector as I have noted before. I personally am using the screw on sleeves with the MS type connectors. I screw the plastic sleeve onto the outer rubber of the MS type female connector and find it gives a very tight hold. No, it likely is not water proof but as long as it doesn't pull apart too easily I'm satisfied with the connection.

The current connector plug used with the Hunklee batteries are relatively loose. I'd be happier with either the threaded or MS type female connector as both seem to provide a tighter fit ( regardless of the type of male connector ).


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

I found only 5.5mm 
5 set Waterproof Cable Black 5.5X2.1mm DC Power Connector Male to Female 15cm-in CCTV Accessories from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Very good find artemha. I only wish that there would be a version where you could use your own (high grade) wire. The real DIY variant.
I guess this one is the usual cheap wire that might break in cold weather. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## Brooks04 (Jun 1, 2004)

ljracer said:


> Flat top panasonics 3400s in mine


Are you using protected panasonic 3400s in this holder?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

... and not only high grade silicone wire but also thicker one that is able to pull more current than 2A like this from ali. I bought a wire and a simple 5.5/2.1 male connector in local shop because I need a wire that pulls about 6-7A for my light without overheating that wire too much. It is not waterproof but since it is a temporary solution till I find some waterproof connectors it works well. It seems I will replace all connectors on all my bar lights 



oalex100 said:


> Very good find artemha. I only wish that there would be a version where you could use your own (high grade) wire. The real DIY variant.
> I guess this one is the usual cheap wire that might break in cold weather.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> I need a wire that pulls about 6-7A for my light without overheating that wire too much.


Aside from wire gauge, I doubt that use of common 5.5/2.1 connectors for such currents is good idea. Even high-quality ones are typically rated at 5A max:
DC Power Connectors | Mouser


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

How about the ones all over ebay? I ordered a pair to check out, but havent gotten my batteries, so its still in the box. These red bit ones can take up to 2.5mm wires, so AMP draw can't be a problem. I too am considering rewiring everything on the long run. Lights, battery case, charger. However I am getting the feeling that there is going to be too much soup in the meat. Story of our life right? 

Genuine AMP 3 Way Pin Superseal Electrical Waterproof Connector - 1.5-2.5mm Wire | eBay









PS: _The 3 pole is not a mistake for me. I want to have option for Balance charging (2S setup). So I never have to open case till batteries die on me._


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Brooks04 said:


> Are you using protected panasonic 3400s in this holder?


Unprotected at the moment. I have a bunch of protected ones on a slow boat from china.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes you are right, but as a temporary solution in freezing temps works acceptable, I knew the best max is about ~5A.



-Archie- said:


> Aside from wire gauge, I doubt that use of common 5.5/2.1 connectors for such currents is good idea.


I like that one, but ordered today a 2 wire version since cell checking is done on separate wires to accomodate 2-3-4S setup. I think it would be quite big because of 2.5sqmm wire - it is similar to one used with xenon headlights on cars.



oalex100 said:


> How about the ones all over ebay?
> 
> Genuine AMP 3 Way Pin Superseal Electrical Waterproof Connector - 1.5-2.5mm Wire | eBay
> 
> ...


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## artemha (Nov 20, 2010)

artemha said:


> I found only 5.5mm
> 5 set Waterproof Cable Black 5.5X2.1mm DC Power Connector Male to Female 15cm-in CCTV Accessories from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com
> 
> View attachment 856685


Spark 80CM cable for SX5 serie
hkequipment - Spark 80CM cable for SX5 serie


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## Rocky Raccoon (Jul 26, 2013)

I have many lights but all have different battery connectors and I would like to change them so they have the same type.
The screw on type seems to be nice.
Would this do?

A Pair Waterproof Power Connector Plug 2pin LED Cable | eBay

slightly cheaper than the ones mentioned above.

How about this one? Even cheaper...
LED Light Strips DC Male to Female Connector Waterproof Cable 2pin Transparent | eBay

Thanks


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

That is a 24AWG wire, so it isn't convenient for stronger lights.


artemha said:


> I found only 5.5mm
> 5 set Waterproof Cable Black 5.5X2.1mm DC Power Connector Male to Female 15cm-in CCTV Accessories from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com
> View attachment 856685


So mine 2 wire connectors are here, definitely they are quite large, borrowed from automotive headlights  3 wire would be even bigger.



oalex100 said:


> How about the ones all over ebay?
> Genuine AMP 3 Way Pin Superseal Electrical Waterproof Connector - 1.5-2.5mm Wire | eBay
> View attachment 856784


Also the battery pack from KD for the MJ-880 clone was finally delivered by boat to me  It contains the same cells as the one Kir has. I would expect the same capacity. All cells charged to 3.82V. But the case is definitely not for frequent opening/closing, one might want to replace the 8 screws for 4 longer ones going through the case with 4 nuts on the opposite side. If the pack is really close to 4.2Ah measured by Kir it is a cheapo option for a replacement pack and should be added to the options list.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Just got my protected panasonic 3400s from wallbuys. Ordered 11/24. Arrived on 12/31. Ordered 6. 

5 are good. 

#6 is now an unprotected cell. Each cell was wrapped in bubblewrap and packing tape and I nicked the bottom edge of one with a knife which let the pcb come loose. 

It didnt work after rewrapping it. Some bad connection.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

ljracer said:


> Just got my protected panasonic 3400s from wallbuys. Ordered 11/24. Arrived on 12/31. Ordered 6.
> 
> 5 are good.
> 
> ...


I am getting fed up with Banggood's, they my cells haven't arrived in over 35days. Mean while every other part that I ordered since then has arrived.
I am considering asking for a refund and getting them from elsewhere. Was Wallbuys the next cheapest you could find?
Funny that they have the unprotected for a higher price than the protected ones. I am playing with the thought of leaving out the protection. If both the light and charger has cutoff (so no possible over charge or over drain), then its not really needed is it?

I am not sure I get you. Did you mistakenly damage the protection (while unpacking) or was it loose/bad already?


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

oh,there is a faulty battery from wallbuys? did u complain in paypal ?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

oalex100 said:


> I am getting fed up with Banggood's, they my cells haven't arrived in over 35days. Mean while every other part that I ordered since then has arrived.
> I am considering asking for a refund and getting them from elsewhere. Was Wallbuys the next cheapest you could find?
> Funny that they have the unprotected for a higher price than the protected ones. I am playing with the thought of leaving out the protection. If both the light and charger has cutoff (so no possible over charge or over drain), then its not really needed is it?
> 
> I am not sure I get you. Did you mistakenly damage the protection (while unpacking) or was it loose/bad already?


Wallbuys was pretty cheap when I purchased. 2 for $15 i think.

I did damage the wrapping a little. It seemed that it should have been trivial to repair. I have plenty of shrink tape for rewrapping 18650s. However it wasnt making a good connection.

Im not filing any complaints. I got a good deal. And i can still use the cell.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

ljracer said:


> Wallbuys was pretty cheap when I purchased. 2 for $15 i think.


That is indeed much cheaper than BG. I got mine for $17 for 2 (that is after BG coupons). When I checked then and even now, Wallbuys is giving me the same 17 bucks: see

How did you get yours that cheap?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

oalex100 said:


> That is indeed much cheaper than BG. I got mine for $17 for 2 (that is after BG coupons). When I checked then and even now, Wallbuys is giving me the same 17 bucks: see
> 
> How did you get yours that cheap?


When I purchased them they had a special. I posted it in this thread back in November.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Happy New Year!
Good news, we have get some waterproof DC5.5/2.1 connectors samples, will list in our store tomorrow, welcome to our ebay store and have a view!


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

ljracer said:


> When I purchased them they had a special. I posted it in this thread back in November.


Devastating news for me. I asked about my package of 8 batteries (ordered 30th Nov) and they say its probably lost and are giving me a full refund. AAAHHHRRRRR. Those were tha only things missing from my set up. I sold my old light 2 months ago. So now I have to order from somewhere else and wait for who know how long to get them (if I am lucky).
Truth be told it might have to do with the blocking of batteries at HK and Sing port.
But am very dissatisfied with BG for using a service that only updated tracking info after 10 days.

*Anyone know of an on going good deal let me know.* I am looking to buy *un*protected Panasonic now.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

*Panasonic NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh*

Amazon has decent deals with FREE two day shipping if you're a prime membah... Free shipping over $35 anyway, US shipper.

Amazon: Panasonic NCR18650B 18650 Battery 3400 mAh

edit: there is a 30 day "free trial" so you can sign up for *Prime* and cancel if you dont' want it.. 



oalex100 said:


> *Anyone know of an on going good deal let me know.* I am looking to buy *un*protected Panasonic now.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

patski said:


> Amazon has decent deals with FREE two day shipping if you're a prime membah... Free shipping over $35 anyway, US shipper.
> 
> Amazon: Panasonic NCR18650B 18650 Battery 3400 mAh
> 
> edit: there is a 30 day "free trial" so you can sign up for *Prime* and cancel if you dont' want it..


Unfortunately I am in the EU. So that would be amazon.co.uk and its very expensive there http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-N...r=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=4pcs+Panasonic+NCR18650B

That is roughly $50 plus another $15 at least for shipping and that is for just 4pcs. So way over $115 bucks for the 8pcs I need. Definitely not worth it. Compared to the less than half it cost from China even with shipping. Even hunk Lee pack is cheaper than amazon (EU).

Thanks anyway.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Have list some DC5521 waterproof connector in our ebay store!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Transparent ones look interesting


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

The seller was in Berlin, here it is on Amazon.de mit Kostenlose Lieferung.
Panasonic NCR18650B_X4 Li-Ion

How much was it from HunkLee?



oalex100 said:


> Unfortunately I am in the EU. So that would be amazon.co.uk and its very expensive there http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-N...r=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=4pcs+Panasonic+NCR18650B
> 
> That is roughly $50 plus another $15 at least for shipping and that is for just 4pcs. So way over $115 bucks for the 8pcs I need. Definitely not worth it. Compared to the less than half it cost from China even with shipping. Even hunk Lee pack is cheaper than amazon (EU).
> 
> Thanks anyway.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> Transparent ones look interesting


I am not sure about the maths... How many amps max would those 0.5mm2 wire handle well?


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

cheeper still, http://goo.gl/Y8Mwjn



patski said:


> The seller was in Berlin, here it is on Amazon.de mit Kostenlose Lieferung.
> Panasonic NCR18650B_X4 Li-Ion
> 
> How much was it from HunkLee?


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

patski said:


> How much was it from HunkLee?


Just divide that price by 2 as its for 8 cells (and this is WITH protection and soldering and shipping).
BTW I got my money back from Banggood today.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

oalex100 said:


> I am not sure about the maths... How many amps max would those 0.5mm2 wire handle well?


All I know is that most 0.5mm² cable can handle 3A @ 300v


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I just received my cells ordered from Bang good! I ordered two Panovo cases and 8 cells December 18th. The case took about a week and the cells about 2 and a half weeks. I have a question:

Should I charge the cells individually to make sure they are balanced? I have protected Panasonic cells. I only have a magicshine and a gemini charger. I would need to buy a new charger to balance the cells.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I was just my bad luck then. I am considering ordering from them again. Maybe this time I get lucky.

We are in the same shoe. Only I got my panovo but not the cells. Anyway I wouldn't bother with balancing them now. Maybe every 3 months if fine (to take out of case and use other charger). You might consider getting and intelli charger 2 or 4 cell. This nitecore one come highly recommended and is cheap too: Nitecore I4 Intellicharger 4 Slot Universal Li ion Ni MH Ni CD Battery Charger | eBay

And don't forget you can use it ffor your NiMH needs too.
*Just make sure you get V2* (first version had some problems)!

V2 review


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Ardufruit also sells waterproof 4 core connectors that would be good for a battery and external switch connection to your housings

Waterproof Polarized 4-Wire Cable Set ID: 744 - $2.50 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

derekbob said:


> I just received my cells ordered from Bang good! I ordered two Panovo cases and 8 cells December 18th. The case took about a week and the cells about 2 and a half weeks. I have a question:
> 
> Should I charge the cells individually to make sure they are balanced? I have protected Panasonic cells. I only have a magicshine and a gemini charger. I would need to buy a new charger to balance the cells.


Adding to what Oalex100 said; If you have a good 7.4 volt charger you should have no problems as long as the cell are well matched. To be on the safe side it wouldn't hurt to own a good charger that will charge all the cells in parallel ( giving each cell a separate but equal charge ). The Charger Oalex100 recommended looks like a good one. Another similar one is the XTAR XP4 which comes with home and car charger cords.

Lastly to folks into the race scene they might be interested in a "Fast" 4 cell charger. Those are available too although I don't have a link at the moment.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Thanks for the advice guys. I bought a XTAR XP4 for 37 bucks before I saw the link for Nitecore I4. I'm not too bummed because I can use the car charger for camping. I actually need more chargers for nights when I loan out a set of lights.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can read it here and also do some calculation also (wire resistance and voltage drop allowed on the other end).



brad72 said:


> All I know is that most 0.5mm² cable can handle 3A @ 300v


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> You can read it here and also do some calculation also (wire resistance and voltage drop allowed on the other end).


Thank you so much for that. Very handy.
I shows that is can handle about 9 Amps max (for the 0.5mm2 wire). I used 1 meter cable and 8 V DC for the calculation. That is enough for 2 x (insert whatever high-amp-1000000lumen-triple-cree-uber-XXXXl-Led-light of you choice).


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You are welcome *oalex100*! Just you have to take into account the end of the discharge cycle what is usually about 6V and more amps if the driver doesn't dim the headlight. That is actually my case of powering 2 x 7 XM-L with a total of [email protected] and ending with [email protected]



oalex100 said:


> Thank you so much for that. Very handy.
> I shows that is can handle about 9 Amps max (for the 0.5mm2 wire). I used 1 meter cable and 8 V DC for the calculation. That is enough for 2 x (insert whatever high-amp-1000000lumen-triple-cree-uber-XXXXl-Led-light of you choice).


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## neabue (Jan 5, 2011)

I just picked up one of the PANNOVO 18650 battery cases and plan to use it with some unprotected samsung batteries I have laying around as a backup battery pack. I have read through this thread but am still not sure of everything I need to be aware of using these (unprotected) batteries with the case. I noticed Cat makes a case for using non-protected cells here and on using cell holders in general here.

I understand not to over-discharge them, so will power off when the light starts to dim.

Also, since there's no short-circuit protection, to be careful entering batteries correctly and if measuring voltage with a multimeter.

Can unprotecteds be charged while in this pack w/o a PCB using a regular magicshine charger or one of those included with the cheap chinese clones, or do you have to only use an external cell charger? I didn't know if these typical magicshine battery pack chargers would cut off when they are done charging, or include some kind of over-charge protection? What else do I need to be aware of?

thanks, and sorry if any of this was covered earlier, but wanted to be sure before I go forward!


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Thesd MS and clone chargers are all supposed to stop charging once cell is at 4.2V. You know most packs that are included with these light have no protection. If the chargers didn't stop charging then everyone of them would have been destroyed on their first charge.
Also most lights have low voltage cut off too. That in not just go dim, but actually stop at around 6V. So generally speaking, with normal usage one wouldn't over discharge or overcharge.
Of course malfunctions are another story but that could happen to even protected cells. 
As a matter of fact as I got my money refunded, I ordered again. Only this time unprotected ones. All that I will be relying on is the light built in cut off and the MS charge. That is with never leaving the panovo case. 

And then once every 3 months I will take them out of the panovo pack and balance charge them. With some plugin 2 or 4 cell li-ion charge as discussed 2 post above this one. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Thesd MS and clone chargers are all supposed to stop charging once cell is at 4.2V. You know most packs that are included with these light have no protection. If the chargers didn't stop charging then everyone of them would have been destroyed on their first charge.
> Also most lights have low voltage cut off too. That in not just go dim, but actually stop at around 6V. So generally speaking, with normal usage one wouldn't over discharge or overcharge.


Not quite so. MS and clone chargers are not monitoring cell voltage: they're monitoring total battery voltage and stop charging at 8.4 volt (often, a bit higher). So, as the cells are not absolutely identical, it is possible for the 2S battery to have, for example, one cell at 3.9 V and second at 4.5 V: output voltage will remain "normal" 8.4V in that case.

The same is true for discharge: even if the light head will switch off at 6.0V, the case when one cell is at 3.47 and second is at 2.53 is still possible.

In other words, measurement of total battery voltage can not be used to prevent overcharge or overdischarge. It's the protection PCB business (either embedded into battery pack, or attached to the each cell)...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes, obviously I meant to write 8.4V. That is why i said its how its supposed to work. Identical (quality Panasonic) cells should not go out of balance in short periods for no reason. That is having 1 with 3.9 and other with 4.5 is series. That would take time to happen under normal circumstances. Hence what you discuss IS a malfunction. Even the low quality cell packs take a year to really go out of balance that way.
You do know many of the cheapo lights that have "free" packs included (eg SS X2) have no protection. It is a viable option. But yes it can go wrong just as every thing can. 
My suggestion (which i myself am going to use) i consider is quite reliable.
Identical quality cells charged with (not the cheapest) MS 8.4 charger. And then balanced out once in 2-3 months (with another charger). 
Don't tell me it's likely to go bad this way. Of course there is always a safer option to every thing. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> Identical (quality Panasonic) cells should not go out of balance in short periods for no reason. That is having 1 with 3.9 and other with 4.5 is series. That would take time to happen under normal circumstances. Hence what you discuss IS a malfunction.


In factory-assembled battery - yes, but for separate cells with unknown initial state of charge, it's quite possible.



> You do know many of the cheapo lights that have "free" packs included (eg SS X2) have no protection. It is a viable option.


For several years of budget chinese lights use, I've never seen that. Can you provide any example?



> My suggestion (which i myself am going to use) i consider is quite reliable.
> Identical quality cells charged with (not the cheapest) MS 8.4 charger. And then balanced out once in 2-3 months (with another charger).


At least, do it other way around: charge cells equally first.



> Don't tell me it's likely to go bad this way.


Ok, I won't say that.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> In factory-assembled battery - yes, but for separate cells with unknown initial state of charge, it's quite possible.


Everything is possible  However I do intend to check them all with my MM before putting them in the pack.



> For several years of budget chinese lights use, I've never seen that. Can you provide any example?


I stand corrected. Excuse my ignorance. I was really sure I got that from somewhere, but it turns out I am wrong and you are right. Will teach me not to write on forums too early in the morning from smart phone and still in bed.
How the hell do they make that happen. Give you a "working" LED light with all the bell and whistles for $27 and still able able to include a battery pack with 4 cells *and even have a PCB circuit soldered in it*??? I know the cell are $3 a piece XXXXFIRE but still, they work more or less (1-2 hours). And those selling them still make money. Incredible are, these Chinese magicians.



> At least, do it other way around: charge cells equally first.


I see that as a good as a very good idea/recommendation. It makes a lot of sense, thank you.



> Ok, I won't say that.


You know I meant "more likely to work well than to go wrong". That is the odds are not stacked against me. Are they?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Guys if you are not using protection, you should at least add some cell monitoring with an alarm like that one - dirty cheap also on ebay:

On-Board Lipoly Low Voltage Alarm 2s~3s

There are also some other options, like voltmeter included instead of alarm, 2S-4S option, ...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> Guys if you are not using protection, you should at least add some cell monitoring with an alarm like that one - dirty cheap also on ebay:
> 
> On-Board Lipoly Low Voltage Alarm 2s~3s
> 
> There are also some other options, like voltmeter included instead of alarm, 2S-4S option, ...


I did buy this for exactly this reason. I tough it would be good not just for "safety" but also to be able to estimate roughly now much time I have left on the packs when taking off for a ride and if I need to take it upstairs to charge before my next trip, when putting the bike away. In my case I extimate I will be needing to charge only every 3rd ride or so, so I need some indication when to charge and not just when the indication on the light goes red.

Its waterproof too, so very good for bike option. Looks much nicer in real life too so I really recommend it (even if you have protected cells I feel its quite useful, unless you always drain your batteries more that half way on most of your rides). Will install somewhere visible (probably handle bar, next to the main switch).


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> I did buy this for exactly this reason.


They're totally different things. External voltmeter connected to the battery output is unable to monitor cell's voltages, while device mentioned by *MK96 *does exactly that job.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

oalex100 said:


> You know I meant "more likely to work well than to go wrong". That is the odds are not stacked against me. Are they?


Most likely, it will work Ok, at least initially. But, as I understand, you're planning to put separate cells into holder, correct? Then, even with high-quality and well matched cells, chances are for example, that contaminated or corroded contact surfaces, or weakened contact springs, will cause minor difference in the currents flowing across particular cells - what in turn results in different levels of SOC. Of course, next charge in the multi-bay charger will fix that, but once again: without protection (or monitoring) module, you'll never know for sure, whether you're safe or not...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Again that is if it's out of balance no? Else my option would be fine I think. 
On another note, one would need 1 for each P of those no? That is in my case 2S4P would need 3-4 of those connected to monitor voltage on individual cells. Also would need a qay to disconnect when not in use (even if passive draw is minimal). My last problem would be that is starts to screem at 3.3V which is fine for lipo, but I have no problem going 2.8-2.9 with li-ion. So generally the alarm woudl be too early and wouldn't indicate a problem yet fof li-ions.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Just single alarm module is enough: it's connected to the each segment of battery (note 4-pin connector). But fitting relatively big PCB could be problematic, as probably there's no free space left inside holder loaded with cells.

IMHO, for such a setup, separate protected cells are most convenient way to go...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I was under the impression that the 4 pin was included due to 3S compatibility. Anyway as I said I consider 3.3 to high for li-ion application.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

*Crazy idea*

Ok guys here is something. I just had a crazy stupid idea from all the discussion that we have been having. I need your input as I am not sure I have the idea right.

I made a drawing to better explain what I mean (see below). And a quick reminder before I get warned that technical malfunctions are a possibility on planet Earth. I KNOW.
What I want to find out is if the basic idea is viable giving normal quality and functionality?

So the idea is a sort of "passive" balancing technique. As I mentioned before, I am going for a 2S4P setup which I made the basic drawing of. Normal charge is using the MS/Gemini 1.8A charger to connect to the mains (+/-) and get charged. What I thought of was. What would happen if I installed switched (*A,B,C*) to the setup and right before and after each charge I would turn all 3 on for about 30 mins (NOT DURING CHARGE OR USE). Actually I could even leave it ON right after a charge and only switch them back OFF when I go to use them on the bike.
I hope you can follow me. Considering that the cells are normal (As in no major defects) wouldn't this be a good way of keeping them balanced (practically all the time)?
Say one of the cell slightly goes out of balance during a use, then when I turn on the switched then the parallel connection should rebalanced all of them right?

Examples:
A. if Cell 1,2,3 (first row) are at 3.5V after a use and cell 4 is at 3.2V. Then turning on the switch after a short time (without external charger) they would *equilibrate-out* themselves. So 1,2,3,4 would all be ~3.4V.
B. if after a charge cycle 1,2,4 are at 4.2 (so charger stops charging) and cell No.3 is only at 3.9V. Then turning on the switches and leaving if st for a while would make them all *level-out* (maybe this is a better word) around ~4.1V.

I even consider the examples extreme, as if its done most of the time, then such differences can not happen between a such a short while. I used those numbers to simple demonstrate my meaning. I guess more real life would be in the 0.001V range of difference and only builds up over a long period to higher figurs. However with this method it wont even have a chance.









Important points:
1. If this is a viable option, then I will not need a second (balance) charger.
2. Obviously if 1 cell becomes faulty then bad things can still happen. I would consider it good practice to check all cells individual Voltage with multimeter at least once a month. Also the fix (single) voltmeter on the bike would give me some indication if there is critical failure as I would probably notice a sudden ~1/8th difference to what I am used to. The emphasis is on "sudden" as I know ambient temperature does account for variation in capacity.
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY: I need to devise a method to guaranty that I never mistakenly leave any of the switches turned on when I connect it to the charger.
_4. Don't worry about the Panovo case right now._

I feel no. 3 is the critical issue. But I already have an easy 100% fix in mind. 

So, what do you think? _Suddenly at the end now I am having second though, like my basic electronics knowledge has failed me and the whole idea is a huge short circuit (plus explosion) waiting to happen._ :nono: _Do I need a second set of switches to disconnect the upper and lower row when doing this passive balancing? I know parallel cells will balance themselves out without a problem. Its just the simultaneous serial and parallel variation that I am unsure of._


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Basically the wiring should be designed some other way, see the link and do your calculations there: R/C Calculations. There should be no switches since the empty cell doesn't make the circuit/pack to fail.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

oalex100 said:


> 3. MOST IMPORTANTLY: I need to devise a method to guaranty that I never mistakenly leave any of the switches turned on when I connect it to the charger.


Nothing bad will happen by leaving all of the switches turned on - that is the way a good battery is wired up as per the post below


MtbMacgyver said:


> This is actually the best way to wire to wire a 2s2p pack. If you don't connect the parallel cells together, then they won't stay in balance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





oalex100 said:


> So, what do you think? _Suddenly at the end now I am having second though, like my basic electronics knowledge has failed me and the whole idea is a huge short circuit (plus explosion) waiting to happen._ :nono: _Do I need a second set of switches to disconnect the upper and lower row when doing this passive balancing? I know parallel cells will balance themselves out without a problem. Its just the simultaneous serial and parallel variation that I am unsure of._


You are close, oh so close. You are correct when you say that parallel cells will balance themselves without a problem. Where you have gone wrong is misunderstanding which cells can go "out of balance" - the problem is with cells wired in series. So wired correctly (ie switches all closed) the top 4 cells are in parallel & will all have the same voltage in a range of say 3-4.2V. Similarly the bottom 4 cells are in parallel & will all have the same voltage in a range of say 3-4.2V. The problem is that the top cells may not have the same voltage as the bottom cells.

To give you a wildly exaggerated example just say the top cells were 0.5V lower than the bottom cells. You attach a charger to the pack - the top cells are now 3.95V while the bottom cells are 4.45V. The pack voltage is fine - 8.4V, but the bottom cells are dangerously overcharged. Same problem on discharge - pack if fine at 6V, the bottom cells are 3.25V but the top cells will be 2.75V (dangerously discharged)


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK and Bruce thank you very much. I guess I had it all mixed up with led wiring mode.
So the switches will be replaces with fix connection.

Bruce in this case, you are saying that its not single cells that go out of balance but the rows of cells, which is still a problem either way.

Would another "passive" balancing methodology possible be the following:

Cells in upper row: A1 A2 A3 A4.
Cells in lower row: B1 B2 B3 B4.

How about if every 2 weeks I swapped 2 cells from row a to row b and vice verse. So it would look like this:

Cells in upper row: A1 B2 A3 B4.
Cells in lower row: B1 A2 B3 A4.

Was lazy to draw another diagram, but am sure you get what I mean.
What do you think? Am I correct in assuming that this way the rows should also stay balanced more or less. _That is till I have a serious cell malfunction or a fatal bike accident or an alcohol overdose._<---_ meant as a stupid pun for the worry warts_ :madman:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

O-100, I think you may be giving more attention to the issue of balancing than is necessary. Adding to what find_bruce said ( which looks correct ) ...

Usually when batteries are built the cells used are tested and matched for compatibility ( before being used in the build ). The more cells used the more important the issue. In electronics rarely are all things equal. That is why it is so important to have the cells matched as close as possible _before_ you build the battery.

If you really want to have all cells that are all completely charged at their maximum peak voltage you have to charge them ALL in parallel at 4.2 volts. The kicker is even if you do that, different cells can still discharge at different rates ( depending on the differences of internal resistance within each cell ). As long as there are no big differences in voltage/discharge rates between the cells you are going to be fine. The only way to know that though would be to take all the cells out and measure their voltage individually once you have discharged the battery. When or if you find a bad cell you replace it. ( or replace the whole battery if it has neared the usual life expectancy ). Hope this helps.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you really want to have all cells that are all completely charged at their maximum peak voltage you have to charge them ALL in parallel at 4.2 volts.


It would be better to charge them in series (hobby charger) or each cell independently (nitecore i4). Parallel charging could not charge each of the cells equally due to various internal resistance as you mentioned it correctly.

@oalex100 you just need the wiring either from the find_bruce's post or the link I wrote, nothing more to work out ;-)


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

what to do with a home-made 2s[xp] pack is: test test and test again, back and forth, forever

run it, use it. and all the time, get out the voltmeter and check each cell separate from the rest, and watch what is going on with them over time, until you have it fully understood.

takes all the guesswork out when you put in the extra testing time after each
use as well as each charge

if i were to build my own packs I would have a test-pack/bench with a multiple switch that I could flip to a) disco all cells, and b) switch-connect them each to an individual bank of voltmeters. bang, all volts read, cell discharge/charge state known...no guesswork. it would also let me know if my cell supply is good or tainted. cheap voltmeters are a few bucks a dozen


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> It would be better to charge them in series (hobby charger) or each cell independently (nitecore i4).* Parallel charging could not charge each of the cells equally due to various internal resistance as you mentioned it correctly.*
> 
> @oalex100 you just need the wiring either from the find_bruce's post or the link I wrote, nothing more to work out ;-)


Yes true but there there are ways around it. When charging in parallel when the battery reaches it's first peak charge it will stop charging. If there is a cell that is not up to par it may not reach full peak charge. After the cells sit a while they will self balance if they are still in parallel. This will lower the voltage. Then you charge again. You can keep topping off the charge until all cells are close to peak charge. Obviously not the best way to go about it but can be done. As you said the best way is to charge each cell independently via a cell charger with a separate charge circuit. The good cell chargers do that. ( like the i4 ).


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

*Panasonic*

Just a heads up for anyone looking to purchase currently:

Panasonic cell are still on sale at Banggood. That is the below coupons still work. You can use that as many times as you like. My shipment got lost (not their fault obviously but post office). They refunded me and I purchased from them again. Right for the past 2 weeks I haven't found any cheaper source than them. Obviously this are 2pcs sets.

Panasonic Unprotected 3400mAh flat top still $14.95 with code bgf113
Panasonic Protected 3400mAh button top still $16.50 with code bgf120

Also Wallbuys ha a promotion for 3400 unprotected button top but its VERY limited stock. $15


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I just checked over on the Fasttech site and looks like they have restocked on their ( single 18650 cell ) batteries. Competitive pricing...:thumbsup: Shipping might still be a problem though.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't know if this is the right place but I'm looking for a 18650 6 cell nylon pouch with 2x straps, I have been looking everywhere but can find one, also looking for 2 cell 18650. if anyone can point us in the right direction that would be great


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey guys,,, I'm hoping someone could give me some feedback on Open Light Systems. Four days ago I sent them a couple of emails inquiring on the battery packs for Lupine and haven't heard back. Are they a really busy company and I should be more patient, or is there anything else going on with them that should end my inquiries? Thanx in advance!! Cheers!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Trd620 said:


> I don't know if this is the right place but I'm looking for a 18650 6 cell nylon pouch with 2x straps, I have been looking everywhere but can find one, also looking for 2 cell 18650. if anyone can point us in the right direction that would be great


Somewhere in this thread someone posted an Amazon link to a cheap 6-cell battery. D/X also sells these but shipping batteries from China is sketchy these days. Look at it this way, if you buy the bag they give you the battery for free. ....or, email them and they will give you the SKU# for ordering just the bag.


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

UltraFire battery is the worst batteries I have seem, the fake Capacity and bad quality ,if u do not believe ,u can search them in BLF , there are many members test it


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Relic38 said:


> UltraFire battery is the worst batteries I have seem, the fake Capacity and bad quality ,if u do not believe ,u can search them in BLF , there are many members test it


Yes, I know it's a cheap crappy battery. I would expect actual capacity to be somewhere around 4500-5000mAh. For the money (~$18 ) not a bad deal. FWIW I was only linking the battery because it came with a bag that fit the bill.

I'll also add that years ago i used to use single cell Ultrafire Red cells ( 2600mah ) for my torches. At the time those rated *decently over on CPF. ( *not quite 2600mAh but near enough to satisfy most people ) For the money they weren't a bad deal at the time. Of course the better cells are now available at better prices. Still, I figure it shouldn't be too hard for someone to make a cheap "real" 2200mAh cell. I've noticed that D/X in the last year has tried to improve on their batteries. The people who bought the cheap Amazon 6-cell reported good things so I suppose they were satisfied with what they bought. Personally If it were me I would want to get at least 6000mAh out of a 6-cell battery. Then again if you're only spending $18 it is hard to be picky.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Relic38 said:


> UltraFire battery is the worst batteries I have seem, the fake Capacity and bad quality ,if u do not believe ,u can search them in BLF , there are many members test it


real ultrafires are fine, you just need to know exactly who is selling the cells, which is hard to do...

I had a box of 50 ultrafire 2400 unprotected and they are all identical and 100% perfect in every way. each cathode cap is laser engraved and was in it's own mylar bag. all of them ran on a load tester within 6% of each other

ultrafire is the #1 most counterfeit cell and TONS of fakes are everywhere


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mine lifepo4 cells from D/X arrived OK last week shipped with tracking RQ......SG. So D/X should be fine.



Cat-man-do said:


> D/X also sells these but shipping batteries from China is sketchy these days.


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Mine lifepo4 cells from D/X arrived OK last week shipped with tracking RQ......SG. So D/X should be fine.


 SG means Singapore post ,but as I know this one can not ship pure battery, are u sure your tracking number is this one ????


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

*Till now we can ship pure battery.*



Relic38 said:


> SG means Singapore post ,but as I know this one can not ship pure battery, are u sure your tracking number is this one ????


As safety reasons, pure battery especially for Lithium battery don't shipped smoothly. For USA buyer, we may don't ship by Epacket (By China post office and USPS) as too much parcel returned by airport. We have special way to ship them till now. We packed very well and reliable as we know short-circuit is very dangerous in airplane. We also hope every buyer suggest your seller to pack battery well, and use good quality not cheaper battery products. Some poor quality battery caused burning in airplane last year.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I shipped some of my GoPro adapters to England (listed as bicycle parts on the Customs form) yesterday and was asked at the USPS office if the package contained lithium batteries in any form. Seems every shipper is cautious about lithium batteries at this time.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, SG is Singpost and with this tracking number came my order with 4 lifepo cells :skep: It is probably a hit or miss but this was a hit for me :thumbsup:



Relic38 said:


> SG means Singapore post ,but as I know this one can not ship pure battery, are u sure your tracking number is this one ????


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Can the battery packs be shipped or will those be stopped as well.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hard to say, I think they could be shipped via SG Post also but probably not from everyone.


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## Relic38 (Sep 6, 2013)

but as I know wallbuys use Sweden post to ship pure battery ,and they claim it is 100% safe.
what is wrong ???


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

A little off topic, but still about batteries
Well I am in a sort of spot and would like some advice from people with similar experience.
As you know I have ordered Panasonic 18650 from Banggood. This item got lost. Made purchase Nov 30th and tracking was showing "item accepted in Singapore" even on 16th January. Banggood tought it was obviously lost and refunded me promptly. Even tough I was pissed, I decided to give them another chance. A bought the same goods from them and hope that this time it will arrive.
Now, 17th Jan., what do I see on tracking report (which I check everyday, just for the hell of it). The item (the lost one) has arrived in my country!. Maybe it came by ship even though I payed for airmail.:madman:
So now I have been refunded and my new order is on the way and this one seems to be here (too). I do not need them both. Shipping back would definitely cost me a lot. Half the price of the goods, so I don't think that Banggood would really want to pay for the return shipping.
I am not a cheat (so don't intend to steal from them) and they were nice to refund me promptly (unlike Dealextreme which sent me a defective item and has had me begging for someone to look at my ticket for many days now, told me a lies and only decided to comment on the ticket after I opened paypal dispute. All this for a $2 item; anyway buyers beware, you can see DX all the complaints on DX forums). Anyway back to the point. What should I do? I dont need the extra cells, but I can't wont pay for return shipping. We get packages everyday so I can't say I wont accept it. Postal service here doesn't let you look at item before your sign for it. Also I don't know what happens if I don't sigh for it. Then they still make claim with paypal.
Any of you had any similar experience?
My best idea so far has been to try and sell them (if indeed I do get them) and then send the money to Banggood. However I am not a trader so am not sure if I can sell it. Any, all advice is welcome.


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## jimmybjj (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm not nearly as informed as most posting information on this thread, but i thought i would share what i found, someone may find some interest in it. I bought a Panasonic 6200mah 2s2p from ebay's hunk_lee. I requested that he include a balance connector. Order took about 3 weeks to florida. The batteries packaging looked like the ebay ad with the exception that it said samsung on the label. I cut the shrink wrap off, the cells were indeed panasonics. The balance connector was added but soldered up completely wrong, he didn't charge for the connector. The main connector was magicshine sized connector but not the waterproof variety.

Received batteries at just over 7.2v
charged to 8.4v
discharged to 3.0v
resulting in 5764 mah or about 93% of capacity as measured by my icharger 106b+

I'm pretty happy with what i got considering a battery university article states "...All 11 pouch packs show a starting capacity of 88–94 percent..." I could have done without having to cut open the shrink wrap to verify the battery brand and resoldering the balance connector.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

FWIW, the capacity of modern Panasonic cells is specified for discharge to the 2.5 volt, not 3.0...


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

I think Lee (or someone else that purchased from him) indicated previously that the protection he is using, cuts of at 3v.
Anyway as I believe Archi is trying to indicate. That means you had an extra 200mAh left in the cells. So that should make your percentage even higher. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Exactly. I've recently tested HunkLee's 6200 Panasonic battery bought by my mate in November 2013: the protection PCB allowed to discharge it to the 5.0 volt without problem (i.e., 2.5 volt per cell) with resulting capacity of 6170 mAh:










Excellent pack! :thumbsup:


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Was that the integrated factory protection on the cell or an external circuit?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "external" in that case. There's no integrated PCB on Panasonic cells: protection is to be added by pack assembler. In abovementioned case, it was the original PCB installed in the battery.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

PCB might be modified by Hunk_lee to suit proper cell cut-off voltage, e.g. 3400 mAh Panasonic will cut-off @2.5V, Sanyo 2600 mAh @3V, ... I just wonder why the balance leads were soldered the wrong way


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

Obviously an unintentional mistake, albeit a serious one, as in bad things could have happened (imagine a novice trying to balance that thing).
Probably one of the staff or Lee himself working overtime.
Anyway an unfortunate lesson to learn from this is to check (that is if you still dare to buy from him). However some might not like to have to cut off the shrink wrap, when its already been paid for.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Readily-available PCBs typically have wide range of triggering voltages: I've seen many samples with lower limit of 2.4 volt, so probably he's just selected appropriate one for Panasonic range.

As for balance lead, I hope it will fix that in later batches.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

I ordered two packs from him with balance leads on the 10th. I'll report back how the balance leads are connected once they get here.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

jimmybjj said:


> The balance connector was added but soldered up completely wrong, he didn't charge for the connector.


Were the wires soldered to the wrong points (red +, black -, yellow common) or were the wires just in the plug in the wrong order?


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## jimmybjj (Jan 25, 2013)

robs31 said:


> Were the wires soldered to the wrong points (red +, black -, yellow common) or were the wires just in the plug in the wrong order?


Colors were soldered to the pcb the correct way, they were not in the right sequence at the plug.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

This thread has been a great resource for many throughout last year. Anyone second a 2014 thread?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mtbRevolution said:


> This thread has been a great resource for many throughout last year. Anyone second a 2014 thread?


Hey Leonard, what's up...

I've toyed with the idea of doing a 2014 version but right now with there still being issues with getting batteries shipped from *overseas sources It would make no sense to list batteries that still might not be available without major delays. Hopefully that will change as more *OS vendors figure a way around the air mail regulations.

In the mean time a lot of people are looking for vendors able to ship within the continental U.S.A.

BTW, are you still able to supply batteries to the U.S.? Last I heard you had someone in the U.S. that was shipping batteries for you. Is that still something that is an option for people looking for batteries?


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hey Leonard, what's up...
> 
> I've toyed with the idea of doing a 2014 version but right now with there still being issues with getting batteries shipped from *overseas sources It would make no sense to list batteries that still might not be available without major delays. Hopefully that will change as more *OS vendors figure a way around the air mail regulations.
> 
> ...


Valid point on the shipping challenge. No carrier will declare they accept, ship and deliver lithium batteries without issues. We will be the first in line if there was. It's still pretty much hit and miss. We've tried it all - HK, China, Singapore, Swiss, Swedish, EMS etc. Yes today, no next week, yes again in 5 weeks time. We will see more misses when they tighten the noose around lithium shipments.

We still have hard and soft shell Samsung 7800mAh batteries stored in Colorado. They come with adapter cable to make them fully MS-type compatible. We truly value Mike's professionalism - hat off to you Sir. He dispatches at the snap of a finger then sends me pic of the parcel with USPS tracking number clearly in view, which we forward on. Transit time is within 4 days.

We've ordered Xeccon's Panasonic packs for post CNY delivery. We will have 2-cell 3400, 4-cell 6800 and 6 cell 10,200mAh packs. Price will be higher than Mr.Lee's since we have higher guaranteed shipping cost, neoprene pouches, fully waterproof connectors and cables and most of all, mtbRevolution's capacity guarantee and Xeccon's warranty. We are considering sending some for the US market but need to gauge interest before doing so.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

How serious is the shipping issue really? I mean currently. 
Who here hasn't received their shipment? Say from December onwards. 
I bought 5 separate 18650 packages, all ordered and payed for on different days and all arrived with no problems. Only as written before the first pack took 45 days to arrive but i guess that due to xmas. 
All other (4) packages ordered in January arrived within 2 weeks and thisvis Hungary mind you. So usually slower than US or even UK. 
All shipments came from Banggood. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

BG claims they have no shipping problems with li-xxx cells.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

oalex100 said:


> How serious is the shipping issue really? I mean currently.
> Who here hasn't received their shipment? Say from December onwards.
> I bought 5 separate 18650 packages, all ordered and payed for on different days and all arrived with no problems. Only as written before the first pack took 45 days to arrive but i guess that due to xmas.
> All other (4) packages ordered in January arrived within 2 weeks and thisvis Hungary mind you. So usually slower than US or even UK.
> ...


Hi oalex, do you still have the battery packaging/s. If yes can you please post a close-up pic of it/them, front and back.

You can read about the hits and misses in this CPF thread.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

mtbRevolution said:


> Hi oalex, do you still have the battery packaging/s. If yes can you please post a close-up pic of it/them, front and back.
> 
> You can read about the hits and misses in this CPF thread.


Yes, I do have the packaging. However I am not sure about posting my address and tracking number and stuff on a public forum. Is there anything in particular that you want to know about it? I can write down for you any specific info that you might need. Like which post they used or what they declared it as, and so on...

BTW I did go trough the topic that you linked and it too confirms my suspicions. As of December till date, everyone there too is confirming that they do get their order and as a mater f fact in a timely manner.
Someone even posted that Wallbuy actually has a post up (somewhere) that most of their buyers have been positively indicating that they are receiving their cells. So shop with confidence. Also Fasttech is again shipping cells (they stopped completely last year). So everything is pointing in the same (good) direction).

So its more HITs now as I said, just read from mid December post till now. I couldn't find any miss.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

MK96 said:


> BG claims they have no shipping problems with li-xxx cells.


So does Wallbuys. Quote from CPF forum: _wallbuys site notice : Now more and more customers give us good feedback and receive their battery orders after 20 working days, so there is no battery issue in wallbuys now. any problem send a email to us_


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

oalex100 said:


> Yes, I do have the packaging. However I am not sure about posting my address and tracking number and stuff on a public forum. Is there anything in particular that you want to know about it? I can write down for you any specific info that you might need. Like which post they used or what they declared it as, and so on...
> 
> BTW I did go trough the topic that you linked and it too confirms my suspicions. As of December till date, everyone there too is confirming that they do get their order and as a mater f fact in a timely manner.
> Someone even posted that Wallbuy actually has a post up (somewhere) that most of their buyers have been positively indicating that they are receiving their cells. So shop with confidence. Also Fasttech is again shipping cells (they stopped completely last year). So everything is pointing in the same (good) direction).
> ...


Sorry should have mentioned I didn't expect your personal details out in the open. It should be blacked out. Ok, just wondering how the packages are declared. Is there a lithium warning sticker and li-ion cells in the description or are they described as gift and replacement parts. We ordered something from FT for research which we received a few days ago. It's a torch with lithium battery inside but described as I stated.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

The declaration just says charger
I guess they just found the easy way and also port authorities got tiered of the strict screening. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

oalex100 said:


> ....So its more HITs now as I said, just read from mid December post till now. I couldn't find any miss.


I summarized the same thing. Vendors are finding ways around the airline restrictions but this doesn't necessarily mean that shipping is going to be "business as usual" from every company/vendor. Just before the fall holidays I had an order from D/X that didn't arrive because of a battery issue. I had to contact D/X and have the order sent without battery. On the other hand the battery sent from Hunklee came without delay. Kaidomain on the other hand has an order being sent to me as I write. Seems to be on it's way but I have at least a couple weeks to wait to see if there are any delays.

Still, if my order arrives in a timely manner I'm not going to assume that we are quite "out of the woods" concerning shipping issues. For that to happen I need to hear or read that the international Airlines are coming to their senses and realizing that the shipping of Li-ion batteries "is" in fact no great threat. Likely almost everyone who travels by air nowadays carries a cell phone, lap top or tablet that uses Li-ion cells. That said, there is no way in h*** that the airlines are going to prohibit those devices. If they did the public would have a mass conniption fit in response.


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## oalex100 (Jun 21, 2011)

*Ready*

At long last, bike/setup is 99% ready. Thank you guys. You saved me from possible short circuits

Details


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Slightly out of context but I've received or have incoming a two cell Xtar charger, and a Panasonic 3400 mAh XCR18650B (protected) battery. This for a small light for EDC pack carry. 

Would like to have gotten the smart Xtar charger, but maybe later.


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## aa019456 (Feb 6, 2014)

I have several L&M units and two of them are older Stella 120's both having battery issues taking and holding a charge. $28 each (parts + labor) at Batteriesplus, working like brand new... battery capacity of the replacements are a step higher than the original cells. Took about 3 days.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Another li-ion cells from DX left China using RQ....SG tracking. Seem that every seller tries to find out how to pass the "rules" successfully.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

robs31 said:


> I ordered two packs from him with balance leads on the 10th. I'll report back how the balance leads are connected once they get here.


Got my packs from Hunk Lee (2S1P 3400, 2S2P 6200) and yes, the balancing leads were not in the correct order. I would like to note that I had previously purchased some balancing leads elsewhere that were also not in the correct order, so not sure what the deal is. The good thing is it's an easy fix. Simply pull the pins out of the connecter and put them back in the correct order, no need to open the pack and resolder. I tested the capacity of both packs and they were close to the stated capacity. My charger discharged them down to 3.1v per cell and then charging stops at 8.2v, so obviously not the full range, but gave me a good indication of where they would be with a full charge. I requested the packs come with the new screw type connectors. I also requested that he add the male end of the connector so I could change out my lights plugs, and he included them and the balancing leads at no extra cost. The packs were packaged very well and arrived in 3 weeks to California through Singapore post. Overall I'm very pleased with the product and the service. Would surely recommend if your looking for a pack.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

*If add a 3P balance connector is necessary?*

Thanks for your supporting of our products and service!
If add 3P balance connector is necessary, we can update the design of our battery pack. The cells from Panasonic/Sanyo has very good complance in performance. So charge by 8.4V charger from P+~P- is enough. But I don't know if the cells have difference in performance among same pack after 300cycles.


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## Hyperocity (Feb 5, 2014)

Can someone lead to me to a batter holder for the bottle cage?


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Another li-ion cells from DX left China using RQ....SG tracking. Seem that every seller tries to find out how to pass the "rules" successfully.


Difficult to ship battery to worldwide countries. But ship to USA no problem now.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ok, I ordered a "Hunk-Lee" battery off of eBay for a cheap-o 808 XM-L2 clone I bought. I got the following:

Samsung LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 4400mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light 2S2P 22F | eBay

I should have read up/emailed this guy - does this not have the proper MS-type connector? Are these waterproof?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Cells sit in a heatshrinked tube - non waterproof. After all you can e-mail him to quote the mods you need.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I already ordered it..bummer! Thanks for the info though...if I order another I will talk to him...or just go through Action LED!


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Ok, I ordered a "Hunk-Lee" battery off of eBay for a cheap-o 808 XM-L2 clone I bought. I got the following:
> 
> Samsung LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 4400mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light 2S2P 22F | eBay
> 
> I should have read up/emailed this guy - does this not have the proper MS-type connector? Are these waterproof?


I believe that it is a ms-type connector. It is a quality product for a great price if everything I have read is correct. It was not misrepresented in anyway. I also believe that it comes with a neoprene pouch with velcro to attach it. You could always plastidip it to get it mostly waterproof.

The original ms connectors are water resistant not water proof. To get a waterproof connector, you would need a screw connector with o-ring or something similar.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Great info iron..thanks. I wasn't insinuating that he misrepresented it, just that I didn't do my homework. I just was hoping it wasn't like the kid of connector that are MS-type but don't snap together.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

robs31 said:


> Got my packs from Hunk Lee (2S1P 3400, 2S2P 6200) and yes, the balancing leads were not in the correct order. I would like to note that I had previously purchased some balancing leads elsewhere that were also not in the correct order, so not sure what the deal is. The good thing is it's an easy fix. Simply pull the pins out of the connecter and put them back in the correct order, no need to open the pack and resolder. I tested the capacity of both packs and they were close to the stated capacity. My charger discharged them down to 3.1v per cell and then charging stops at 8.2v, so obviously not the full range, but gave me a good indication of where they would be with a full charge. I requested the packs come with the new screw type connectors. I also requested that he add the male end of the connector so I could change out my lights plugs, and he included them and the balancing leads at no extra cost. The packs were packaged very well and arrived in 3 weeks to California through Singapore post. Overall I'm very pleased with the product and the service. Would surely recommend if your looking for a pack.


The order of balance connector are not only one type. Depanding on the order of balance charger, two orders charger are.
But re-order action is simple. Just press the metal down and pull wire out, then let the metal clip a little up, then insert in the correct hole.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Great info iron..thanks. I wasn't insinuating that he misrepresented it, just that I didn't do my homework. I just was hoping it wasn't like the kid of connector that are MS-type but don't snap together.


Some of my thoughts:

The battery I received from Mr. Lee had a connector compatible with ( other ) MS type connectors....BUT.....the connector does not include the rubber outer shield usually included with other MS type connectors. Without this shield it is very easy for the two connectors to come apart. I'm not saying it can't work but a tighter connection is more desirable in my opinion.

I should also mention that the wire included with the ( Lee ) connector is also quite short. Judging from the photos on Mr. Lee's website this looks to be a standard length of wire used on his other batteries as well. In comparison to other batteries I have, the others have connection wires that are at least twice as long.

Since Mr. Lee seems happy to comply with requests I would suggest that anyone ordering a battery from Mr. Lee consider how they wish to mount the battery and the length of wire needed to reach the lamp with your intended mounting solution. If you need the screw-on type connectors you should ask for those. If you want shielded MS type connectors I would ask for those as well. Otherwise you will get the standard set-up which might not work as well as what you want.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Sorry. We should pay much more attention to waterproof performance! How longer of the DC socket wire you wanted? If a 3P balance connector is necessary?


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

My experience w/ any of these cheaper options (battery/light head) are the connectors. They just don't stay together. They are so bad that they are almost unusable unless you tape them together.

I have the Dinotte XML-3 dual and it came w/ an extension cord so what's I've done is used that extension to connect the light head to the battery. The Dinotte extension creates a nice solid connection.

You will more then likely have to mod the connectors some way.

Just my experience.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Got it today. Will use my extra MS extension cable to splice in a better end. What comes on it is not secure.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Shipping battery parcel to worldwide countries become more difficult now. Even this, we ship to a USA customer just take 3 weeks, (Order at Apr.16, received at May.3), the USA customer still give us a negative feedback, we are in China, not in USA. It is unfair to us. Catch such a case, we very disappointed, one of me said refuse to ship to USA. But one said don't hurt most USA customers as they are good and support our ebay business forever! How should we do!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*HunkLee*, don't worry, and just keep your business running!  We all know about current troubles with lithium shipping, and you're doing great job finding the ways for successful delivery. Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> *HunkLee*, don't worry, and just keep your business running!  We all know about current troubles with lithium shipping, and you're doing great job finding the ways for successful delivery. Thank you! :thumbsup:


+1!......Mr. Lee, The informed consumer here in the USA knows about the troubles with efforts to ship Li-ion batteries from China to the USA. Before airline regulations began to ban Li-ion batteries, normal shipping times from China took anywhere from two weeks to a month. With new regulations in effect no doubt there will be additional delays as you try to find carriers that will accept your shipments. There will always be people who do not like to wait. It is unfortunate that you have to deal with logistical shipping problems ( and angry customers who don't know all the facts ) but such is life.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

HunkLee sells some quality packs at a reasonable price!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Xeccon 4-cells; Panasonic and Samsung; Great Price!*

Okay, I was browsing through the Xeccon website tonight and couldn't help but notice that down on the very bottom of their battery list is a 4-cell 6800mAh Panasonic battery....all set to go! $46.00 USD! That is one great price on a weather sealed Panasonic battery, pouch with good connectors. Me thinks Leonard might be giving Hunk Lee a run for the money. 

Now what doesn't make sense is that in the product description it mentions that the battery is only available to people in Australia???:skep: If true why is it listed on the USA site and listed as $46 USD?? Sort of a mixed message there if you catch my drift. Anyway, I tried the on-line chat thing but got no response. I might have to send Len an e-mail.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay, I was browsing through the Xeccon website tonight and couldn't help but notice that down on the very bottom of their battery list is a 4-cell 6800mAh Panasonic battery....all set to go! $46.00 USD! That is one great price on a weather sealed Panasonic battery, pouch with good connectors. Me thinks Leonard might be giving Hunk Lee a run for the money.
> 
> Now what doesn't make sense is that in the product description it mentions that the battery is only available to people in Australia???:skep: If true why is it listed on the USA site and listed as $46 USD?? Sort of a mixed message there if you catch my drift. Anyway, I tried the on-line chat thing but got no response. I might have to send Len an e-mail.


Hi Cat, sorry I missed you on the chat-thing.

We ordered the 3400mAh cells a while back. We then had the 3100s which went out the door like the flux capacitor fitted DeLorean. The 6800 is by far the most popular because of weight : size : price ratio. The 2-cell 3400 is the next and while I thought the 10,400 would be the go, it actually wasn't an attractive proposition for most. In Australia, besides the racing guys, most buy the packs from us to power their, you guess it - Yindings and Solarstorms.

I asked Mike of CO a while back if we should consider sending Panasonics to him so we can do batteries only for ConUS. That was towards the end of the night riding season for the northern hemisphere so we left it. Cost of these batteries with shipping (still an issue) is costly. We do have a one-up over Mr Lee - the packs are covered by an extra silicone boot - even for the 6-cell, and the converters are 100% MS-type waterproof connectors. We are not really competing with him though. For now, the 6800 at AUD 46 is below the $50 free delivery threshold. Anyone interested can shoot me an e-mail. We can upgrade the battery pack with these Panasonics which we have in our office in China. Our Spiker 1211s and most recently S12s are fitted with XM-L2 U2.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Leonard

Do your batteries still fit magicshine lights or do you now need the converter you mention?

Tim


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Wombat said:


> Leonard
> 
> Do your batteries still fit magicshine lights or do you now need the converter you mention?


Hi Tim, Xeccon's square connectors fit MS-type connectors as they are. They will be water resistant but if you want them waterproof then the 30cm converter cable should be added.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mtbRevolution said:


> ...I asked Mike of CO a while back if we should consider sending Panasonics to him so we can do batteries only for ConUS. That was towards the end of the night riding season for the northern hemisphere so we left it. Cost of these batteries with shipping (still an issue) is costly. We do have a one-up over Mr Lee - the packs are covered by an extra silicone boot - even for the 6-cell, and the converters are 100% MS-type waterproof connectors. We are not really competing with him though. For now, the 6800 at AUD 46 is below the $50 free delivery threshold. Anyone interested can shoot me an e-mail. We can upgrade the battery pack with these Panasonics which we have in our office in China. Our Spiker 1211s and most recently S12s are fitted with XM-L2 U2.


@mtbRev....Having 4-cell batteries with the 3400mAh Panasonics available to the USA market would be a big plus. My bet is that if you had these stocked with your US supplier you would be selling so many you wouldn't be able to keep them on the shelves ( if priced as well as your others.  ).

@Wombat...Having used the Xeccon batteries with the squarish connector plug myself I think some clarification is necessary. The metal connector on the Xeccon battery is actually round, just like with any other Mshine type battery. What's squarish on the plug is the rubber shield. Strange as this might seem, it works perfectly well with any lamp I own that calls for a Mshine type batttery. ( * The exceptions are: DiNotte...which doesn't work with any Mshine type battery without modding save the Hunk Lee's ) And, The Mshine type batteries that use the "screw on" connectors.

Truthfully, I don't know if any of the standard Mshine type batteries I use have connectors that are fully waterproof. Almost all the ones I own, ( except the Hunk Lee ) are very well shielded though. The square "Xeccon" ( female ) plugs work so well with my standard ( round/male ) lamp plugs that I really don't see there being a real issue ( or need for an adapter ). The fit is very tight and looks very"weather-resistant" to me if not completely "water-proof. I will also say this about the new Xeccon ( squarish) plugs; Used in combo with the matching Xeccon lamps... The fit is so smooth and tight I would bet money that they are water-proof to 1 meter.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks for the advice Leonard and Cat.

Tim


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Leonard- just told me that Panasonic batteries are not available to US, only if you buy a light. Also noted by Cat the square connectors do work perfect with MS and SS lights, I have last year BAT and Samsung batteries from Xeccon and still going strong. 

I also still feel Serfas bike lights are the best to can buy for the money, from the light head to the battery, switch, connectors all first class. Try to find a deal on one.


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Battery packs? 
I have some decent batteries that i would like to use in a 4 and 6 cell setup.

Any recommendations on cases would be great. This appears to be the best one out there. A little pricey but looks solid.
PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

I've been unable to find a 6 cell case?

also for the people out there making there own do you.
A: Whats the best way to make sure batteries are paired? (i can source some good quality lenovo laptop batteries last set i got all 8 were great and have kept voltage without an issue)
B: Protection circuits. do you buy the protection PCBs and if so any recommendations as i really don't know where to start on this.
C: Leads and where to buy them from

Just as reference I want to have a 6 cell so i can run two Yinding dual XML's from.

Thanks in advance


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

steviemidnight said:


> This appears to be the best one out there. A little pricey but looks solid.
> PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> I've been unable to find a 6 cell case?


This is a very good case if you have your own cells. I have a couple for the lights I've made.

Right now this case is sold out at DX.

I don't think there is a 6 cell case holder yet.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Just a quick question that is sure to be beating a dead horse, did a search, please dont sue me. Picked up a couple of lights from Amazon (assuming they may be "slightly" better than random ebay vendors). The brand is securtiying and they came with battery packs, how long do I need charge these? And how long is too long before it becomes dangerous? I already ordered a Panasonic pack for my head lamp which will be in my backpack and I will use the cheep batteries for the bar lamp with the pack mounted to the frame. Another question is I live in Switzerland (220v) but I bought these since Im in the U.S at the moment. I am assuming the charger should be able to convert 220v and I will check once I receive the package. I doubt the conversion should be a problem but I am worried about charging the cheap batteries. Any help or links to threads that have already covered this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Edit; one pack is 6400mAh and the other is 4800mAh

Amazon.com : SecurityIng® 3X CREE XM-L T6 LED 3800Lm LED Headlight Headlamp and Bicycle Light (Generic Packaging) : Bike Headlights : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : SecurityIng® 4 Modes Waterproof 2800 Lumens Cree XM-L U2 LED Bicycle Light & 4800mAh Battery Pack & Charger, Cree U2 LED Bike Lmap Light, Super Bright Lighting Lamp Bike Light CREE LED Flashlight Torch for Outdoor Sports Like Camping, Ri


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Hi Swissam, a couple of options - (1) use the chargers that come with the lights or (2) buy use the buy a hobby charger - eg see this thread & this website.

Check when you get your hands on the charger, but AFAIK all chargers use switchmode power supplies and should be compatible with 110-240 V, you just need an adaptor to use the correct plug. You should not have to remember which charger belongs to which battery as either charger should charge either battery.

Personally I prefer to use a hobby charger but the vast majority of people just use the charger that comes with the light.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

find_bruce said:


> Hi Swissam, a couple of options - (1) use the chargers that come with the lights or (2) buy use the buy a hobby charger - eg see this thread & this website.
> 
> Check when you get your hands on the charger, but AFAIK all chargers use switchmode power supplies and should be compatible with 110-240 V, you just need an adaptor to use the correct plug. You should not have to remember which charger belongs to which battery as either charger should charge either battery.
> 
> Personally I prefer to use a hobby charger but the vast majority of people just use the charger that comes with the light.


Thanks for the tip. Just wondering if these chargers have an automatic shut off once fully charged. Ill wait until tomorrow as I dont want to leave it on all night. How long do these battery packs normally take to charge up?


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Getting a 2 cell 18650 light set up via slow boat (MS 816 clone ) that use individual cells in a cradle , my question is that when I upgrade cells do I have to have Protected cells ?


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Battery case link identical to the Pannovo ( In Stock )

Wholesale Cheap Solarstorm BC-01 4*18650 Rechargeable Battery Case Used For Bike Light Online - Buyalleasy.com


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## randan (May 18, 2005)

Is there a battery case that i can fill with 2x18650 cells? For my Yinding light I use at the moment the Pannovo 4x18650 battery pack with some Panasonic cells. As my nightrides are normally very short (about an hour or so) I want a lighter, less bulkier battery case that I can fill with only two 18650 cells.

I am looking for a case similar to this case on the left from Fenix:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Swissam said:


> Thanks for the tip. Just wondering if these chargers have an automatic shut off once fully charged. Ill wait until tomorrow as I dont want to leave it on all night. How long do these battery packs normally take to charge up?


All chargers for Li-ion batteries are designed to shut off once the full charge has been reached. Most batteries are shipped with a 40% charge. Should take about 3-3.5 hrs. for the initial charge. When fully depleted the battery might take 5-6hrs to recharge. I highly recommend charging in a safe place and under supervision. Anyway most chargers have an LED indicator that will change from red to green when the battery is charged. Once charged it is a good idea to remove the battery and charger from the wall power outlet. I say this but only because i know that sometimes a voltage surge in line voltage can damage cheap electronics.

*@ C.M.S*. > About the protected cells; Not a big issue if you know when to switch out batteries.

*@ randan* > Don't know if there's a cheap 2-cell ( series ) holder but at least you have the one sold by Fenix that should work as long as the plugs are compatible. Option two is to just buy a two-cell ( 2-series ) battery. I bought one from Hunk Lee ( ebay vendor ) using Panasonic batteries for a good price although if you choose this option you will need to weather proof the battery ( which is not too hard to do ) The Hunk Lee connectors ( though not the best ) work fine depending on what type of connectors you have.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

randan said:


> Is there a battery case that i can fill with 2x18650 cells? For my Yinding light I use at the moment the Pannovo 4x18650 battery pack with some Panasonic cells. As my nightrides are normally very short (about an hour or so) I want a lighter, less bulkier battery case that I can fill with only two 18650 cells.
> 
> I am looking for a case similar to this case on the left from Fenix:
> 
> View attachment 927506


I'm sure you can use the Pano's with two cells. It won't be less bulky, but will be lighter.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> All chargers for Li-ion batteries are designed to shut off once the full charge has been reached. Most batteries are shipped with a 40% charge. Should take about 3-3.5 hrs. for the initial charge. When fully depleted the battery might take 5-6hrs to recharge. I highly recommend charging in a safe place and under supervision. Anyway most chargers have an LED indicator that will change from red to green when the battery is charged. Once charged it is a good idea to remove the battery and charger from the wall power outlet. I say this but only because i know that sometimes a voltage surge in line voltage can damage cheap electronics.
> 
> *@ C.M.S*. > About the protected cells; Not a big issue if you know when to switch out batteries.
> 
> *@ randan* > Don't know if there's a cheap 2-cell ( series ) holder but at least you have the one sold by Fenix that should work as long as the plugs are compatible. Option two is to just buy a two-cell ( 2-series ) battery. I bought one from Hunk Lee ( ebay vendor ) using Panasonic batteries for a good price although if you choose this option you will need to weather proof the battery ( which is not too hard to do ) The Hunk Lee connectors ( though not the best ) work fine depending on what type of connectors you have.


Which ones are recomended for the lighting n00b that I am ?


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

C.M.S said:


> Which ones are recomended for the lighting n00b that I am ?


A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay

Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 3400mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S1PM | eBay


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

These Xeccon batteries look pretty nice, comes with a nice soft case, shipped from the US... great price.

Xeccon Panasonic 4-cell 6800mAh Ultimate Li-ion Battery



Gharddog03 said:


> A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay
> 
> Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 3400mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S1PM | eBay


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> These Xeccon batteries look pretty nice, comes with a nice soft case, shipped from the US... great price.
> 
> Xeccon Panasonic 4-cell 6800mAh Ultimate Li-ion Battery


Patski, I have one of the Xeccon Ulitmate 6800mAh batteries. It is definitely the best packaged battery you can get for the price. Unfortunately living in the USA you might not be able to obtain one at the moment as the last I heard they ( Xeccon ) weren't selling these ( aftermarket ) to the USA due to shortage of stock ( inside the USA ). 
If you want one you might have to contact Leonard from Xeccon and check on availability.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Well, I't let me add it to the "cart," didn't click "buy" tho....



Cat-man-do said:


> Patski, I have one of the Xeccon Ulitmate 6800mAh batteries. It is definitely the best packaged battery you can get for the price. Unfortunately living in the USA you might not be able to obtain one at the moment as the last I heard they ( Xeccon ) weren't selling these ( aftermarket ) to the USA due to shortage of stock ( inside the USA ).
> If you want one you might have to contact Leonard from Xeccon and check on availability.


----------



## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> All chargers for Li-ion batteries are designed to shut off once the full charge has been reached. Most batteries are shipped with a 40% charge. Should take about 3-3.5 hrs. for the initial charge. When fully depleted the battery might take 5-6hrs to recharge. I highly recommend charging in a safe place and under supervision. Anyway most chargers have an LED indicator that will change from red to green when the battery is charged. Once charged it is a good idea to remove the battery and charger from the wall power outlet. I say this but only because i know that sometimes a voltage surge in line voltage can damage cheap electronics.
> 
> *@ C.M.S*. > About the protected cells; Not a big issue if you know when to switch out batteries.
> 
> *@ randan* > Don't know if there's a cheap 2-cell ( series ) holder but at least you have the one sold by Fenix that should work as long as the plugs are compatible. Option two is to just buy a two-cell ( 2-series ) battery. I bought one from Hunk Lee ( ebay vendor ) using Panasonic batteries for a good price although if you choose this option you will need to weather proof the battery ( which is not too hard to do ) The Hunk Lee connectors ( though not the best ) work fine depending on what type of connectors you have.


Your right, thanks. Took about 3hrs to charge on 220, the charger was warm but never got too hot nor did it explode and burn my house down. I did however order two Panasonic packs from hunk_lee on ebay but I will keep the cheapo chargers as they look identical to the ones on hunk_lee's page. I tested the lights out on a friends farm in the middle of nowhere and these lights (ones I listed above) light up the whole field and will be more than enough for trial riding. I'm hoping I won't run into too many problems once I get the upgraded battery packs as these lights seem to be well built. I spent a little over $100 for both set ups (including upgrading the battery packs) and so far I'm more than happy with them. Now I just need to mount them and go ride....one the rain stops.


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## Viva Borracho (Aug 8, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> @mtbRev....Having 4-cell batteries with the 3400mAh Panasonics available to the USA market would be a big plus. My bet is that if you had these stocked with your US supplier you would be selling so many you wouldn't be able to keep them on the shelves ( if priced as well as your others.  ).
> 
> @Wombat...Having used the Xeccon batteries with the squarish connector plug myself I think some clarification is necessary. The metal connector on the Xeccon battery is actually round, just like with any other Mshine type battery. What's squarish on the plug is the rubber shield. Strange as this might seem, it works perfectly well with any lamp I own that calls for a Mshine type batttery. ( * The exceptions are: DiNotte...which doesn't work with any Mshine type battery without modding save the Hunk Lee's ) And, The Mshine type batteries that use the "screw on" connectors.
> 
> Truthfully, I don't know if any of the standard Mshine type batteries I use have connectors that are fully waterproof. Almost all the ones I own, ( except the Hunk Lee ) are very well shielded though. The square "Xeccon" ( female ) plugs work so well with my standard ( round/male ) lamp plugs that I really don't see there being a real issue ( or need for an adapter ). The fit is very tight and looks very"weather-resistant" to me if not completely "water-proof. I will also say this about the new Xeccon ( squarish) plugs; Used in combo with the matching Xeccon lamps... The fit is so smooth and tight I would bet money that they are water-proof to 1 meter.


Maybe I had too many post ride beverages last night, but I can't envision how the fit between the "square connector" on the battery pack can have a tight fit with a MS type "Round" connector.

Is anyone able to post a picture of this connection. I would like to purchase one of the Xeccon Samsung Battery packs as a replacement pack for my MS, Gemini, and SolarStorm lights.

Xeccon Samsung 8.4V 5200mAh Li-ion Soft Shell Battery

Thanks for any help.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

I PM'd Leonard, these are currently NOT avail in the US, he's looking into it, will ping me when/if a decision is made. Hopefully he'll post to the community...



patski said:


> These Xeccon batteries look pretty nice, comes with a nice soft case, shipped from the US... great price.
> 
> Xeccon Panasonic 4-cell 6800mAh Ultimate Li-ion Battery


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Viva Borracho said:


> Maybe I had too many post ride beverages last night, but I can't envision how the fit between the "square connector" on the battery pack can have a tight fit with a MS type "Round" connector.
> 
> Is anyone able to post a picture of this connection. I would like to purchase one of the Xeccon Samsung Battery packs as a replacement pack for my MS, Gemini, and SolarStorm lights.
> 
> ...


I'll try to get some photos during the weekend. Xeccon also has the adapters 
( square to round ) FWIW. If you needed an adapter I wouldn't think that they would cost more than a couple bucks but like I said before works fine without it.

The Xeccon 5200mAh battery should work very well with any lamp using 1-2 emitters. For years I ran my Gloworm X2 using 3yr old Bikeray 5200mAh batteries ( BAK cells ) and never had a problem. The Xeccon's with Samsung should be even better and as a side note the Samsung 2600 cells should be lighter than the Batteries built with the heavier Panasonic cells. Not that it is that much difference but I can feel the weight difference ( in my hands ) when holding the Panasonic 4-cell built with 3400mAh cells.


----------



## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

If you're looking to order batteries from China, word is that most vendors (DX, Fasttech, Walbuys, etc) are having issues shipping them out. Especially to North America. Shipping companies have deemed these batteries as hazardous and highly explosive. It'll be hit and miss when ordering from them.

Your best bet is to order within North America, price is higher, but at least you'll receive your order.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Where are all these vendors like fasttech , DX , and others that sell individual high quality panasonic cells in particular for a very discounted price based out of ? And are they authentic ?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

C.M.S said:


> Where are all these vendors like fasttech , DX , and others that sell individual high quality panasonic cells in particular for a very discounted price based out of ? And are they authentic ?


China...as far we know they are authentic. They buy in bulk so can sell for less.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

This pack came with an SSx2. I'm having a hard time understanding what configuration this is? Seller description is 8.4V 6400mAh. On the sides of the batteries it states "IRC18650 3.7V", only other marking are the + and - symbols. I can find the IRC models in 1600, 2200 and 2400mAh. Samsung makes a pink IRC18650 model in 2600mAh. These must be the Purple People Melters.

























Edit: I don't know what it looks like...


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Someone effed up building that battery. It should be a 2S2P configuration. The mAh rating advertised as 6400 is using Chinese mAh which really equates to about 2000-4400mAh in reality.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> Someone effed up building that battery.


:lol:

As in 'its not configured properly'? Because the configuration does not look like anything I've read about yet.

Edit: I had the battery charging for four hours today, after testing today. The light on the supplied charger is green, so I guess that means the charger thinks it is full. I set the multimeter to DCV200 and the battery reads 8.4V on the MS power plug. My multimeter is nothing special($12 harbor freight), its amperes setting is 1.5V 4A, and gives a reading of 23.8.

[SSx2]If I were to balance the Trustfires I linked and build a 2S/2P pack, what PCM would I want to buy; through huck_lee or or will this one work


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Aren't the left side batteries are the Pos terminals and the right side are the Neg.



Vancbiker said:


> Someone effed up building that battery. It should be a 2S2P configuration.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

This is the middle wire of the 2S 3 wire setup on the photo. You can clearly see that one cell of three should be reversed. There should be two positive and 2 negative cell terminals if you want a proper 2S2P setup. The wiring here is wrong!


----------



## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

MK96 said:


> This is the middle wire of the 2S 3 wire setup on the photo. You can clearly see that one cell of three should be reversed. There should be two positive and 2 negative cell terminals if you want a proper 2S2P setup. The wiring here is wrong!


The setup looks very wrong from everything I've read over the last week, what I want to establish is if this is even a type of battery configuration? We know it's not 2S2P, so what is it, just bad assembly?

With a 2S2P configuration, I think I need a PCM that will handle 7.4V with 8A Maximal continuous Discharging current? Will this PCM work for x4 18650 protected 3.7V, 2300mAh Trustfires in 2S2P configuration, to run the SSx2?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is a 2S1P and the rest 2 cells are useless in that config, IMHO


----------



## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Okay, pulling it open again to see what PCM was used, since I didn't flip it and get a pic last time. Though, I'm going to drain it again before I do.

Edit: 58f and raining out. Placed light behind house out of the rain with a sheetmetal bucket to capture the light, light is set on high. Put battery to MM before test, DCV reads 8.4v; (1.5v/4.0mA) setting reads 23.8... I need my friend to get back in town so I can use his analyzer... I got phone recording time to cut off. Will report how long it last.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

MK96 said:


> This is the middle wire of the 2S 3 wire setup on the photo. You can clearly see that one cell of three should be reversed. There should be two positive and 2 negative cell terminals if you want a proper 2S2P setup. The wiring here is wrong!


I see, it should be like this,* yes?*


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Almost  One red wire on this picture should get two plus cell faces and the other two minus faces. The biggest problem here is that three cells are plus oriented and one minus. Two/two would be OK. You need to split this pack or rearrange one cell - the topmost cell should be enough.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

MK96 said:


> Almost  One red wire on this picture should get two plus cell faces and the other two minus faces. The biggest problem here is that three cells are plus oriented and one minus. Two/two would be OK. You need to split this pack or rearrange one cell - the topmost cell should be enough.


I'd pull one of mine apart but they've all been plastidipped....


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Panasonic (green) with a silver NCR 18650b 3400 mah 3.7V made in China sticker on it isn't authentic is it !


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yep, you'd need to wrap & plastidip 'em again


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## steviemidnight (Apr 2, 2009)

Being that i missed out on the Waterproof case (thanks C.M.S) i kind of thoughts i don't need it. The 2 cheap 4 packs i have to date have survive just wrapped in sandwich bags.

My new thoughst are just use 
2 of these
A Battery Holder/Case for Li-ion 18650 17670 battery 2S1P w/PCM output:6-8.4V | eBay

or create a pack using these:
5 Pcs Black Plastic 1 x 3.7V 18650 Batteries 2 Pin Battery Holder Case | eBay
i'm just confused over protection circuits. do i need them? Being that i plan to use and charge batteries in my nightcore charger


----------



## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

MK96 said:


> Yep, you'd need to wrap & plastidip 'em again


Are you using the spray can?


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

pigmode said:


> Are you using the spray can?


I dip them directly into the can, Performix 12213 Plasti Dip Black - 22 oz. Dip Can


----------



## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

C.M.S said:


> Panasonic (green) with a silver NCR 18650b 3400 mah 3.7V made in China sticker on it isn't authentic is it !


I bought 2 of those so called Panasonic's 3400mah (via China) and the run time on my Ultrafire XML U2 is about 30-40 min before light output starts to diminish. So I would say they are fake.

Guess I'll just pay the freight and get the real ones but where do U buy so that U know they are real.

MB


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Callies Kustoms. Genuine, but expensive.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

mb323323 said:


> I bought 2 of those so called Panasonic's 3400mah (via China) and the run time on my Ultrafire XML U2 is about 30-40 min before light output starts to diminish. So I would say they are fake.
> 
> Guess I'll just pay the freight and get the real ones but where do U buy so that U know they are real.
> 
> MB


 US Source (ships international now, except that shipping Li-Ions will be a problem I believe) and BLF member: Moutain Electronics .

-Garry


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Okay. Battery stripped 'again'...










Flipped one battery for a proper 2S2P configuration. So then I decide that I need to test every cell. Okay, so two of the cells did not show a charge on DCV200, switch to DCV20 to look for really low voltage... None! Either the two batteries that were not wired correctly have deceased, or they have never been charged. At full the battery pack is 8.4V, 2380mAh. At cutoff the battery pack is 2.83V, 1170mAh.

So I try to see if the i4 will tell me anything. I stick one battery in and in about 60s it tells me the battery is fully charged. When I remove the battery from the charger and test it, it shows (DCV200)1.6V. The charge wont climb any higher and the charger says it's done charging in less than one minute. Okay, so lets try the other battery in the i4 and see what I get. After 60 seconds of being in the charger, the charger is not reading that there is a battery in the charge port, the light does not even blink as it does when reading batteries, so I figure that the cell that was pointed out as needing flipped by you guys, is a dead cell, and all it has been doing is restricting current since it is the battery connected to the positive terminal with all the other batteries behind it.

So I'm going to set aside the two working pink 18650's for now(which actually have a tight rating to each other; well matched) and wire my Trustfire 2300mAh(rated 2500mAh) batteries in 2S2P. Though, I need to find those "U" shaped ribbons, or any battery building ribbons(don't really know the name) like the ones a few pages back, because I've called all the battery and hobby stores in town and no-one sells the supplies for building batteries, except for shrink. Though there are plenty of shops that will build you one 30% more than online cost.

Checking the number on the PCM, it is in fact a 8A protective circuit.

I took all my trustfires and charged them one-by-one. Between all four Trustfires(using friends analyzer) there is no more than a .16V difference between the lowest charge and the highest charge at full battery, and there is no more than a 68mA difference in two of the cells. Seems safe?

So my biggest issue right now is locating a place, either on the net, or within 25 miles of me, where I can buy ribbons for making battery packs. Links and answers are greatly appreciated!

Vancbiker, if you have any of the ribbon in your stock, I would gladly trade you some beer and/or money for 5" in ribbon?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

pdxmark said:


> Vancbiker, if you have any of the ribbon in your stock, I would gladly trade you some beer and/or money for 5" in ribbon?


Sorry, don't have any of that. I either buy pre-made packs online or use battery holders. Those factory connections are spot-welded with a special machine. There have been a few posts from folks that were able to get that done at local batteries plus type shops. There have also been posts where folks have soldered the connections to the cells. Unless you are quite proficient at soldering electrical connections, I would not advise doing that. It would be easy to kill a cell by overheating it during the soldering.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Forgot to add...

If you need to re-configure a pack in the future, do not pull the spot welded tabs off the cells. Cut them apart leaving a half inch or so of the tab attached to the cell. Then you can easily solder new connections to the remaining tab without risk of heat damage to the cell.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pdxmark said:


> View attachment 933214
> 
> 
> .


After looking at this photo and knowing what lamp the battery was sold with, I feel at this point I would have to tear the shrink wrap off of every cheap Chinese battery I own just to make sure I don't have one of those. It is very obvious from the photo that only one cell is on the positive side when there should be two ( assuming two cells in parallel connected in series ( positive to negative ) to the other two parallel cells ). This scares the crap out of me. Someone must of left their glasses home that day before getting to the assembly line.

@pdxmark, If I were you I would contact the vendor to get a new battery...AND, if you got this from an e-smay vendor I would lodge a complaint with e-smay.

( Edit; I just removed the shrink wrap off of one of my cheap batteries. No problems with mine. Actually the connections look much better than the one that pdxmark has. Anyway, still a good idea to check it if you own and actually use one of these. Personally, I only use the cheap batteries for testing and that very rarely.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> I just removed the shrink wrap off of one of my cheap batteries. No problems with mine. Actually the connections look much better than the one that pdxmark has. Anyway, still a good idea to check it if you own and actually use one of these. Personally, I only use the cheap batteries for testing and that very rarely.


Are you just going to get a large 2" wrap like this? Will 2" fit?
10' Black Polyvinylchloride Heat Shrink Tubing

Will clear work? That could be interesting.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Somewhere on one of these forums, I saw a battery pack photo with a hollow tube in place of one of the cells... 



pdxmark said:


> Okay. Battery stripped 'again'...


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> Are you just going to get a large 2" wrap like this? Will 2" fit?
> 10' Black Polyvinylchloride Heat Shrink Tubing
> 
> Will clear work? That could be interesting.


Truthfully, I've never used heat shrink tubing that large before and I don't own a heat gun. I just know if you use it that it will have to be big enough to get the battery inside "before" you shrink it.

If I were going to use this battery outside I would likely just replace the shrink wrap with black duct tape which sheds water very well. Then if I wanted it to be completely bullet-proof I might use the "Plastic dip" product or try a can of "Flex Seal" and apply that over the tape. I've never used PD or FS before so I have no idea if they are worth the money. Many people on this forum have used Plastic dip, never heard if anyone has ever tried what I suggest.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> After looking at this photo and knowing what lamp the battery was sold with, I feel at this point I would have to tear the shrink wrap off of every cheap Chinese battery I own just to make sure I don't have one of those.


You guys are making me "want to know more," so stripped one of my Amazon 6Cell packs, all ok.... I think..


----------



## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> After looking at this photo and knowing what lamp the battery was sold with, I feel at this point I would have to tear the shrink wrap off of every cheap Chinese battery I own just to make sure I don't have one of those. It is very obvious from the photo that only one cell is on the positive side when there should be two ( assuming two cells in parallel connected in series ( positive to negative ) to the other two parallel cells ). This scares the crap out of me. Someone must of left their glasses home that day before getting to the assembly line.
> 
> @pdxmark, If I were you I would contact the vendor to get a new battery...AND, if you got this from an e-smay vendor I would lodge a complaint with e-smay.
> 
> ( Edit; I just removed the shrink wrap off of one of my cheap batteries. No problems with mine. Actually the connections look much better than the one that pdxmark has. Anyway, still a good idea to check it if you own and actually use one of these. Personally, I only use the cheap batteries for testing and that very rarely.


I will lodge a complaint; mostly because I'm worried that another of theses batteries might get into the hands of someone who is not so understanding of modding or testing and buys one to just use, wherein the battery melts down and someone gets seriously hurt. 
-Actually, I think I'll lodge a complaint in the form of a video.-

I'll look at getting one of those 2S2P battery boxes. The trustfires are protected cells, so is it necessary to buy a battery-box with a PCM?

You guys, wow, I appreciate you responses very much. Don't know what I would do without you guys... _Most likely get seriously hurt, or just end up wasting my money_!


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

No, you don't need a box with protection, but you might run into a situation where protected cells are too long for a case. I bought the Pannova case to run protected cells in (though I also use 2 unprotected cells in it while testing lights). 

-Garry


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yep  No prob here...



patski said:


> You guys are making me "want to know more," so stripped one of my Amazon 6Cell packs, all ok.... I think..
> 
> View attachment 934053
> 
> ...


----------



## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

There a difference between Sanyo battery packs vs panasonics ? I notice that the Sanyo mah ratings are lower ( 5800 vs 6400-6800) so I take it panasonics generally give longer run times ?


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, in a 2S2P battery pack running a light that doesn't have huge current draw (90-95% of lights I'd say) you'd get more runtime out of the Panasonics. The sanyo cells (depends on exactly which cell though) generally keep a higher voltage during discharge which helps greatly in single cell applications (i.e. flashlights pulling 3A+ from the cell). Running cells in parallel greatly reduces that voltage sag, so in "normal" lights you wouldn't notice it as an issue.

Well known battery & charger tester HKJ has a nice "18650 Comparator" to compare voltage sag and capacity at various current levels. There are also links to the full reviews of the cells. Note that some of the cells are listed by a brand name, so for instance if you are looking for testing of a Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh you'd choose either the Keeppower 3100 or the Redilast 3100. The "brand name" is just the manufacturer who added a protection circuit and/or wrapped the OEM cell for retail use. Another tidbit, Panasonic owns Sanyo now.

-Garry


----------



## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

garrybunk said:


> Yes, in a 2S2P battery pack running a light that doesn't have huge current draw (90-95% of lights I'd say) you'd get more runtime out of the Panasonics. The sanyo cells (depends on exactly which cell though) generally keep a higher voltage during discharge which helps greatly in single cell applications (i.e. flashlights pulling 3A+ from the cell). Running cells in parallel greatly reduces that voltage sag, so in "normal" lights you wouldn't notice it as an issue.
> 
> Well known battery & charger tester HKJ has a nice "18650 Comparator" to compare voltage sag and capacity at various current levels. There are also links to the full reviews of the cells. Note that some of the cells are listed by a brand name, so for instance if you are looking for testing of a Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh you'd choose either the Keeppower 3100 or the Redilast 3100. The "brand name" is just the manufacturer who added a protection circuit and/or wrapped the OEM cell for retail use. Another tidbit, Panasonic owns Sanyo now.
> 
> -Garry


 Thank you for that insight .
The reason I asked is bc I might try to run two light units on my bar with a MS Y adaptor / one battery pack .


----------



## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

C.M.S said:


> Thank you for that insight .
> The reason I asked is bc I might try to run two light units on my bar with a MS Y adaptor / one battery pack .


Hi!

I just did that yesterday with two Solarstorm X2 clones and a set of four protected 2600 mAh Sanyo 18650 batteries within a Pannovo case with little success. Lights went to power save mode in no time, I assume the voltage drops too much. The original battery pack that came with the lights did work in the same task, but I doubt the burn time would be anything useful.

About the Pannovo case, Buyalleasy refunded my month old order of one looking the same just today with no further information, seems like they are not available anymore despite being in stock at the time of placing the order.

Happy trails!

JK


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

C.M.S said:


> There a difference between Sanyo battery packs vs panasonics ? I notice that the Sanyo mah ratings are lower ( 5800 vs 6400-6800) so I take it panasonics generally give longer run times ?


Adding to what Garry said ( who was spot on ) there are other batteries as well ( like the Sanyo's ) that have different voltage/current curves when used in single cell applications.
Other than some of the IMR type cells that have better current discharge capabilities Panasonic is starting to address this issue by offering some *"hybrid" versions* of their previous NCR offerings. Check out these Panasonic 2900's over on Orbtronic. Very interesting. I was thinking of buying a couple of these myself ( for torch use ).

If you're powering two lamps ( with multiple emitters on each lamp ) it's no surprise that the voltage is going to drop rapidly. Your best bet in that application would be to use better capacity cells in a 6-cell or a larger Li-po battery.

I own three higher capacity batteries myself. When my Solarstorm XT40 arrives and the other 6-up Chinese lamp I ordered I will test these out to see how long they will power the lamps and then report back.


----------



## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Adding to what Garry said ( who was spot on ) there are other batteries as well ( like the Sanyo's ) that have different voltage/current curves when used in single cell applications.
> Other than some of the IMR type cells that have better current discharge capabilities Panasonic is starting to address this issue by offering some *"hybrid" versions* of their previous NCR offerings. Check out these Panasonic 2900's over on Orbtronic. Very interesting. I was thinking of buying a couple of these myself ( for torch use ).
> 
> If you're powering two lamps ( with multiple emitters on each lamp ) it's no surprise that the voltage is going to drop rapidly. Your best bet in that application would be to use better capacity cells in a 6-cell or a larger Li-po battery.
> ...


Much appreciated on your insight and advise in that Cat , thank you .
Been thinking about getting this 
Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

patski said:


> These Xeccon batteries look pretty nice, comes with a nice soft case, shipped from the US... great price.
> 
> Xeccon Panasonic 4-cell 6800mAh Ultimate Li-ion Battery


Hi all, we currently have a handful of Panasonic 4-cell 6800mAh ready to ship from Colorado. Comes with square to round 
5.5 x 2.1DC connector adaptor cable. We had to adjust the price a little due to double handling and shipping. Free shipping over USD 68 delivered via USPS within ConUS 2-3 days.

Also please consider our other batteries like the Samsung 4-cell 5200mAh and 6-cell 7800 in hard or soft shell.


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

Cold weather has come, so my truck battery decides to give me a bad time. Flushing battery since plates look good, but D-water is low. Hope this works and can charge it to needed cold weather cranking Amps and not have to splurge on new truck battery.

Any suggestions would be great!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

pdxmark said:


> Cold weather has come, so my truck battery decides to give me a bad time. Flushing battery since plates look good, but D-water is low. Hope this works and can charge it to needed cold weather cranking Amps and not have to splurge on new truck battery.
> 
> Any suggestions would be great!


The colder the climate you live in the more important it is to have a good battery set-up on your vehicle. Good rule of thumb; after 5 years replace the battery.

In you don't have a sealed battery you can check ( and fill ) the fluids. Next important step is to make sure the positive and negative poles are clean and the cables are clear of oxidation. Spray a little WD-40 on the terminals when done to dissipate any water. If you still have doubts take the battery down to the local parts store and ask to borrow a battery tester.

Anyway, thanks for your post. It helped remind me that my car battery is near five years old and I have a feeling it is going to be a really cold winter. I might drop in a new battery just for the hell of it. Last thing I need to hear at 3:00 in the morning is, ...rrrruh....rrrruh....rrrruh.....click,click, click, click,click.......Yep, we've probably all been there before. :yesnod:


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

I have a Gemini Olympia 2100 on the way (light head only) and Jim @ action highly recomended a 6 cell . Can't I get away with a 6800 mah 4 cell pack from hunk_lee and have great run time ?


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

C.M.S said:


> I have a Gemini Olympia 2100 on the way (light head only) and Jim @ action highly recomended a 6 cell . Can't I get away with a 6800 mah 4 cell pack from hunk_lee and have great run time ?


Assuming your light eats as much power as my Gloworm XS 2200 then you should be able to get about 2 hrs if you switching it high for the fun stuff and low for the climbs. I just ordered an 8cell 13600 mah(long style) for my XS so I can get in some 4-5hr night rides. I'll use the 6800 for my gloworm x2 1500 which normally only gets run at 70% for the fun stuff so it lasts a long time.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

RojoRacing53 said:


> Assuming your light eats as much power as my Gloworm XS 2200 then you should be able to get about 2 hrs if you switching it high for the fun stuff and low for the climbs. I just ordered an 8cell 13600 mah(long style) for my XS so I can get in some 4-5hr night rides. I'll use the 6800 for my gloworm x2 1500 which normally only gets run at 70% for the fun stuff so it lasts a long time.


What's your run times on the x2 with the 6800 ? I'm going to get that light next most likely .


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

C.M.S said:


> What's your run times on the x2 with the 6800 ? I'm going to get that light next most likely .


Hard to say since I only ever run it with a 4400 or 5600 and I'm always switching the intensity every change in trail(love the remote button). I'd say up to 3hrs with the 5600 would be a good guess.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

RojoRacing53 said:


> Hard to say since I only ever run it with a 4400 or 5600 and I'm always switching the intensity every change in trail(love the remote button). I'd say up to 3hrs with the 5600 would be a good guess.


:thumbsup:

Btw , your custom lenses for the xs looks bad ass !


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

C.M.S said:


> I have a Gemini Olympia 2100 on the way (light head only) and Jim @ action highly recomended a 6 cell . Can't I get away with a 6800 mah 4 cell pack from hunk_lee and have great run time ?


I can't see why not. You just have to remember that no matter what battery you get if you run the highest mode full time you aren't going to get great run times. The Olympia includes a variable 10-level sub menu for custom setting the modes. This means you can set low and medium to levels that not only suit your preferences but also to levels that can extend run time if you so choose. Like most people you will choose the maximum output for high. If you buy the Hunk Lee battery you might not like the standard connector. Not sure if he can substitute a normal MS type connector but if you order one you might want to ask first. ( _* I have no axe to grind against the HL batteries but I'd rather have a Xeccon battery set to go with proper connectors and weather proofing/battery bag ready to go for a few buck$ more._ )

The suggestion to buy a good six cell battery is only warranted if you tend to run higher levels of output when not really needed. Looking over the Xeccon website they have a 7800mAh 6-cell using Samsung cells for around $48 USD. ( super deal IMO ) If they have these at their Co. shipping center you could have it in less than a week. They also have a 6-cell using the best Panasonics but those might not be available in the USA.. .My opinion though is if you use a battery at least 6000mAh or over you should be fine if you're doing typical 3 hr night rides and switching only to the highest output for the fast stuff.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

C.M.S said:


> I have a Gemini Olympia 2100 on the way (light head only) and Jim @ action highly recomended a 6 cell . Can't I get away with a 6800 mah 4 cell pack from hunk_lee and have great run time ?


Not sure what you consider great run times but my olympia when new (with fresh batteries) would go 2:20 on a 5200 (4 cell) and 4:00 on a 7800 (6 cell) [Gemini batteries]. My Guess for the HL 6800 would be approx 3:30.
Mole


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> I can't see why not. You just have to remember that no matter what battery you get if you run the highest mode full time you aren't going to get great run times. The Olympia includes a variable 10-level sub menu for custom setting the modes. This means you can set low and medium to levels that not only suit your preferences but also to levels that can extend run time if you so choose. Like most people you will choose the maximum output for high. If you buy the Hunk Lee battery you might not like the standard connector. Not sure if he can substitute a normal MS type connector but if you order one you might want to ask first. ( _* I have no axe to grind against the HL batteries but I'd rather have a Xeccon battery set to go with proper connectors and weather proofing/battery bag ready to go for a few buck$ more._ )
> 
> The suggestion to buy a good six cell battery is only warranted if you tend to run higher levels of output when not really needed. Looking over the Xeccon website they have a 7800mAh 6-cell using Samsung cells for around $48 USD. ( super deal IMO ) If they have these at their Co. shipping center you could have it in less than a week. They also have a 6-cell using the best Panasonics but those might not be available in the USA.. .My opinion though is if you use a battery at least 6000mAh or over you should be fine if you're doing typical 3 hr night rides and switching only to the highest output for the fast stuff.


Is the xeccon battery good to go out of the box connector wise , or do I need to specify what I have (Gemini) ?


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

It will come with a adapter that fits perfectly with Gemini. Great battery!


C.M.S said:


> Is the xeccon battery good to go out of the box connector wise , or do I need to specify what I have (Gemini) ?


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Just ordered a Xeccon 7800 :thumbsup:


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Prolly wrong thread but U guys (and girls) know the run time on the X2 w/ the 2 cell battery. I'm thinking of retiring the 501b Ultrafire and upgrading to the X2 but only if I run the battery attached to the helmet as well. Looks like the sell different set ups w/ the 2 cell. Is there a light head clone to the X2.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Prolly wrong thread but U guys (and girls) know the run time on the X2 w/ the 2 cell battery. I'm thinking of retiring the 501b Ultrafire and upgrading to the X2 but only if I run the battery attached to the helmet as well. Looks like the sell different set ups w/ the 2 cell. Is there a light head clone to the X2.


mb; What drop-in are you using in your 501B? I know it's off topic but depending on what you say I'll send you a PM if I think I might have a better solution for you.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

My 501B is an XML U2. I actually really like it but have had 2 now and both flicker but I think that's because the battery is not fitting correct. And the real run time is about 30 min+ a few for the real high setting. And that's with Panasonics 3400's however, those might be fake. I just don't really know.

I was going to just buy a new one w/ the XML2 and purchase 2 new batteries from a better source, a way cheaper option as I am a big fan of no wires on the helmet. However, I was thinking X2 as I saw one in person the other day and was quite impressed.

Thx for the help.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> My 501B is an XML U2. I actually really like it but have had 2 now and both flicker but I think that's because the battery is not fitting correct. And the real run time is about 30 min+ a few for the real high setting. And that's with Panasonics 3400's however, those might be fake. I just don't really know.
> 
> I was going to just buy a new one w/ the XML2 and purchase 2 new batteries from a better source, a way cheaper option as I am a big fan of no wires on the helmet. However, I was thinking X2 as I saw one in person the other day and was quite impressed.
> 
> ...


I've tried the dedicated bike light with two-cell approach on the helmet before and just couldn't get used to the weight. It can work if you can handle the additional weight of the batteries.

About the 501b; Yes I've had problems as well running the better Panasonics. I think the problem lies in the fact that the Panasonics I have are all flat top batteries. I can get them to work but I really have to fiddle with them. If I use "button top" cells have no problems.

I was going to suggest getting a true, "3-mode" XM-L2 drop-in from Customlites. The only problem with the Customlite drop-ins is that they might not work well with your 501b torch host. It turns out there are two kinds of 501-b hosts; One with a plastic insert between the drop-in and battery and one without. You need the one "without" in order to run the better Customlite drop-ins. Problem is finding the host without the insert. I actually have both but I found the host without the insert on Manafont. Sadly, Manafont no longer exist. You can buy 501-B hosts almost anywhere but they don't specify if they have the insert or not. Lighthound might have them "without" but you might have to ask if you can't tell from the photo.

I know how you feel about your 3400's. I recent bought a couple 3100's on sale and when they came they look so much different than the others I have. Seems they put a clear plastic coating on the cells now. I have a real hard time getting these cells to work properly in any of my torches. They work but sometimes I really have to fight with them which is a real PITA. Next time I buy separate cells I might look for the "button top" versions which never gave me any problems.

( * Nice thing about the Customlite drop-ins is that you get to chose the reflector , the driver type and the LED. The only thing I didn't like was that the reflector they gave me me a horrible beam pattern so I used one of my old reflectors which gave me a much better beam pattern for bike use. Unfortunately the Customlite drop-ins are not cheap. ) Hope this is helpful.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

There are so many types of single-18650 XM-L torches available nowadays, with good thermal management and compact size... Why use ancient 50x designed for halogen bulbs, with inferior cooling, and have additional troubles finding & modifying dropins? :skep:


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## UltimateAtrophy (Aug 24, 2012)

robs31 said:


> Got my packs from Hunk Lee (2S1P 3400, 2S2P 6200) and yes, the balancing leads were not in the correct order. I would like to note that I had previously purchased some balancing leads elsewhere that were also not in the correct order, so not sure what the deal is. The good thing is it's an easy fix. Simply pull the pins out of the connecter and put them back in the correct order, no need to open the pack and resolder. I tested the capacity of both packs and they were close to the stated capacity. My charger discharged them down to 3.1v per cell and then charging stops at 8.2v, so obviously not the full range, but gave me a good indication of where they would be with a full charge. I requested the packs come with the new screw type connectors. I also requested that he add the male end of the connector so I could change out my lights plugs, and he included them and the balancing leads at no extra cost. The packs were packaged very well and arrived in 3 weeks to California through Singapore post. Overall I'm very pleased with the product and the service. Would surely recommend if your looking for a pack.


So ordering from Hunk Lee like 7 months later i get this 2s2p battery pack. I wasn't expecting the extra leads. I suppose that for another type of charger? I order the generic magic shine lights http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QQX3C4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and have the generic charger that attaches to the plug.

1) Can I charge these batteries with that charger? 
2) Is there a way to test it is balanced correctly without dismanteling the connector? That connector looks pretty stuck in (see pic).
3) What recs do you have to a good li po charger?

Thanks,
UA


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Ordered a set of batteries from hucklee on the 13th and got them here in CA today. Nice quality wire with an odd screw style connector and opposing male connector with bare leads incase I want to modify my headlight to this style connector. I'll pasti-dip the packs to water proof them. I'll use the magic shine rubber battery straps on the large pack secure it to the bike. For the small pack some simple velcro to my road bike steering stem should be enough for commuting.


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## E-Rawk (Jun 6, 2011)

Anyone have experience with this particular battery from Hunk Lee?

Rechargeale Li ion Battery 7 4V 9AH for MagicShine LED Bike Light Waterproof F | eBay


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Rojo-13.6 holy sh1t......:eekster:

E-rawk- I'm sure it will perform well. Damn good price...:thumbsup:


You can email hunk lee and he can ship out a battery without any additional leads!!! Good quailty packs from hunk Lee.....


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## E-Rawk (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks Gharddog03! Got 4 MJ-808-L2 bodies, a couple helmet mounts,wide angle lenses and some extra cables headed my way as well as 6 of those batteries. 

I never thought I would regret my wife getting into mountain biking, but now I've realized I just have to double my order on EVERYTHING. All in all though, its pretty awesome. Now to figure out how to mount those Hunk Lee batteries on the bikes for the bar lights....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

E-Rawk said:


> Anyone have experience with this particular battery from Hunk Lee?
> 
> Rechargeale Li ion Battery 7 4V 9AH for MagicShine LED Bike Light Waterproof F | eBay


Well, after reading your last post about buying 4 of the 808-L2's, why would you want this battery? That thing is a brick! The person buying that battery is likely powering a lamp with a true 5000 lumen output! Your best bet is to buy 4 good 4-cell set-ups and yes Hunk Lee sells those too. If you run a 5200mAh battery with a single emitter lamp you should be good for close to 3hrs. Since you need the battery bags for frame use I would buy at least two of those sets from MTBrevolution since their *5200mAh Samsung batteries ( soft pouch ) come with a really nice frame pouch for the battery. *They also are priced very well too. The other two batteries, since they are for the helmet lamps, don't really need a pouch if you're holding them in a hydration backpack.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Well I just pulled the shrink warp off my 2cell pack I revived last night to check the cells individually for ballance after their first full charge. 4.051v on the first and 4.051v on the second, well I guess I can't ask for better then that :lol: 

Is that unusually balanced or the norm for a hunklee battery pack with Panasonic cells? I'm wondering if I should even bother pulling the wrap off the 8 cell pack to check it. What do you guys think?


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## E-Rawk (Jun 6, 2011)

Cat, 

The big cells are more for bikepacking and night races as well as some overnight rides that I have planned in the coming year. The group I ride with will often start a gravel century around 6pm and ride all night. Plus I figure theres no kill like overkill.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

E-Rawk said:


> Plus I figure there's no kill like overkill.


Damn Straight! Nothing succeeds like excess!


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

E-Rawk said:


> Cat,
> 
> The big cells are more for bikepacking and night races as well as some overnight rides that I have planned in the coming year. The group I ride with will often start a gravel century around 6pm and ride all night. Plus I figure theres no kill like overkill.


The more the better :thumbsup:

Have you seen this one ?

Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Ok so I need a little education from the experts. When I bought my first high end lightset(lupine betty) years ago it came with a trick little smart charger then would start the charge at 2.5amps and as the battery would reach capacity it would ramp down to as little as 0.1amps to top it off. Last year when I bought my current Gloworm lights I bought a nice hobby charger that does the same thing as my lupine charger but has more adjustments and range. I was also led to believe larger batteries or maybe packs can handle a larger current draw. So when cranking up that Betty to full power your going to want at least a 4 cell pack to handle the amp draw. I've also seen max charge current in the spec pages of battery packs and they seem to vary but I've never really pay much attention to the correlation. 

So the actual question I have is should you charge a 7.2v 3600mah pack at a lower current then a 7.2v 13600mah pack? The reason I'm asking is that 13600mah 8cell pack took 5hrs to charge at 2.5A and it was only half empty. If I can safely with no ill effects bump up the current to say 5A and let my smart charger ramp down from there as it sees fit then that'll cut my charge time in half.


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## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

*Li-ion Charging Rate*

Hello!

Charge and discharge rates of over 1 C increase capacity fade of Panasonic 2900 mAh Li-ion NCR 18650 cells significantly according to a NASA test. I would not worry of a 5 A charge current with a 13.6 Ah battery pack.

Good rides!

JK


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Here's a good selection of batteries.

items in store on eBay!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

E-Rawk said:


> Cat,
> 
> The big cells are more for bikepacking and night races as well as some overnight rides that I have planned in the coming year. The group I ride with will often start a gravel century around 6pm and ride all night. Plus I figure theres no kill like overkill.


Yes, I assumed as much, however.... Assuming you typically do shorter rides; How much run time do you actually need for those "typical night rides? _The point I'm making is that it makes more sense to buy smaller battery packs but more of them_. That way when you do your typical rides you have batteries that weigh less and can be split up to use any which way you want ( bar light-helmet light-loaners to friends...etc ). I understand you like the idea of over-kill, but truthfully, how much overkill do you need for your typical rides?

There are other advantages to doing it this way.

1) smaller batteries charge faster. If you have a charger for each battery this will speed up prep time.

2) For your century you can still mount multiple smaller batteries to your frame even if they aren't plugged in so really it is no difference...however...when you run the first battery to depletion you will know just how long the next battery will last IF they are the same Ah rating ( **assuming you rotate your batteries during the year so they all see equal use during your typical rides. )

Anyway, to me it just makes more sense. Why buy a huge ( heavy ) battery that will likely only be used for the century-all-nighter? Certainly it would make no sense to use a battery like that on a typical 3hr night ride when a good 4-cell will do it without problem ( for most people ). That would be like filling a 2 liter hydration bladder to the brim with water to do a 2hr ride, who would do that ( unless you live in a desert )? Lastly, two 4-cell 5200mAh batteries are equal to 10.4 Ah. Two 4-cell 6800mAh ( Panasonic ) batteries are equal to 13.6 Ah. Not to mention you could also make a Y-connector and run two packs ( in parallel ) at the same time. Anyway, I'm just throwing these ideas out there as food for thought.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, I assumed as much, however.... Assuming you typically do shorter rides; How much run time do you actually need for those "typical night rides? _The point I'm making is that it makes more sense to buy smaller battery packs but more of them_. That way when you do your typical rides you have batteries that weigh less and can be split up to use any which way you want ( bar light-helmet light-loaners to friends...etc ). I understand you like the idea of over-kill, but truthfully, how much overkill do you need for your typical rides?
> 
> There are other advantages to doing it this way.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree with what cat is saying and it's what I've always done. The only reason I went with the 13600 pack is for a bit of simplicity on the longer rides but mostly for my 24hr racing. In the 24hr races you after you exhausted you body in the first 12hrs stopping for just a few minutes will drop your body tempeture tremendously so if you can keep your pit stop shorter by just a minute or two it will make things more plesant. I know it sounds like splitting hairs but I've done a lot of endurance a races and once I figured out how to get my total stopped time down to less then 3 mins in a 12hr and less then 30 on a 24hr I found my resulting performance gains were huge.

But don't worry to much on what packs you buy now because batteries for MTBers are like shoes for women, you can never have to many


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Hunk Lee batteries: Solarstorm and Magicshine Connectors*



Gharddog03 said:


> Here's a good selection of batteries.
> 
> items in store on eBay!


*In keeping with the subject of the Hunk Lee batteries: *

I noticed in the HL e-bay store front that he does sell the Solarstorm type connectors. This means if you request it, he can put one of these on the battery you want ( if you need the threaded female connector ). On the other hand I don't see a "standard Magicshine type connector" ( with rubber sleeves ). He does however have a type of connector that is similar. I believe these are what he usually puts on the battery if you don't specify.

Since I have a couple of the cheap Solarstorm type batteries ( Chinese ) I decided tonight to try to use one with a standard ( male ) Magicshine type connector. Interestingly the two seem to work together without too much problem. To make it work I was able to slide the male ( MS ) end into the hard plastic outer piece of the female SStorm side. It actually fits quite tightly, so tightly in fact that I am able to let the lamp hang by the wire without coming apart, even when I shake it. The only lamp not able to work with the SS connector was my Manta Ray D003 which has a slightly longer male end. As such if Hunk Lee doesn't have the true MS connectors I think I'd rather order the SStorm type ( which seems to work better than his standard connectors ). Just keep in mind that if you do use the SS female side with male MS that eventually the plastic might stretch and become loose over time. Add to that there is no guarantee that water can't get into the connection as there is no rubber shielding. More food for thought.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

<JK> said:


> Hello!
> 
> Charge and discharge rates of over 1 C increase capacity fade of Panasonic 2900 mAh Li-ion NCR 18650 cells significantly according to a NASA test. I would not worry of a 5 A charge current with a 13.6 Ah battery pack.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply
So after some research I figured out what "C" means for each differnent sized battery.

C is generally the capacity divided by 1 hour, so for my 13600mha(13.6Ah) battery it would be 13.6 amps . Hence eg. 'charge at 1C' can be stated, independent from the capacity of a battery. So I'll lay a few examples out for those of you that aren't so good at algerbra.

4400mah(4.4Ah): 1c=4.4A
5600mah(5.6Ah): 1c=5.6A 
6800mAh(6.8Ah): 1c=6.8A, 0.5c=3.6A, 0.75c=5.1A
13600mAh(13.6Ah): 1c=13.6A, 0.5c=6.8A

So if the limit is 1c then we can assume anything less is extra safe at preserving your battery performance in the long run. So if I charge my batteries at 0.5c which is only half of the maximum recommended then that would be a charge rate of 6.8A on my 13600mAh battery and 3.6A on my 6800mAh batteries.

All this is fine and dandy but keep in mind these little 22ga and sometimes small battery lead and charger lead wires can only handle around 5A or current(I could be off) so exceeding that would also not be recommended.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

In reference to above ^^. ; From what I've read about Li-ion batteries...

A single standard 18650 (3.7 volt ) cell can be safely charged at around 1A. However it is usually recommended to charge at around 500ma ( or 0.05A ) per cell. For standard cells less is better as this helps the cell not to age as fast. 

Regardless you can charge Li-ion cells at a higher rate. I forget now what the safe maximum is ( maybe 2A per cell ) but you have to know that doing so will age the cell very fast if you do it on a regular basis. That said there are people who fast charge their batteries, particularly racers if they don't have lots of back up batteries. There are hobby chargers that will fast charge a battery but usually there is a limit to the number of cells depending on the charger. Personally I have no desire to fast charge as I'm usually in no hurry.

Battery technology is slowly changing. More Li-ion batteries are beginning to use hybrid technologies. This said the current standards will likely change and charging times will eventually become safer for faster charging.
( I'm not a battery Guru per say but this what I've read about from people who seem to know what they're talking about.  )


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

I used a cheap Chinese (good 6 cell) pack on my new Gemini light head and the connection come to find out was loose and in turn would make the light flicker and turn off , had to take a small piece of paper , fold it some and wedge it in the pack connector to make it tight with good connection before I hit the trail head ( not ideal at all) so I'm wondering if the HL packs use the same as the cheap Chinese ones . 
My other pack however is a Xeccon ( 6800 6 cell ) . The connection on that is rock solid very snug . 
So with all that said I would highly recomend looking into Xeccon packs at mtbrevolution ! About the same price as HL's and best of all when I ordered my Xeccon ( on a Saturday) I had it in Hand by Tuesday ..


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## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

*Li-ion Health Concerns*



RojoRacing53 said:


> So if the limit is 1c then we can assume anything less is extra safe at preserving your battery performance in the long run. So if I charge my batteries at 0.5c which is only half of the maximum recommended then that would be a charge rate of 6.8A on my 13600mAh battery and 3.6A on my 6800mAh batteries.


Hey!

To be extra safe with capacity preservation I would go down to C/5, one fifth of 1 C, charge rate, that's where the capacity fade seems to level out if you look at the NASA test paper page 11. To boot there are few other things to note in keeping Li-ion cells healthy. Battery University has a nice article of Li-ion battery care taking. Avoiding deep discharges, fridge storing and partial charge off-season storing are easy to arrange and extend Li-ion battery service life.

Enjoyable night rides!

JK


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

<JK> said:


> Hey!
> 
> To be extra safe with capacity preservation I would go down to C/5 charge rate, that's where the capacity fade seems to level out if you look at the NASA test paper page 11. To boot there are few other things to note in keeping Li-ion cells healthy. Battery University has a nice article of Li-ion battery care taking. Avoiding deep discharges, fridge storing and partial charge off-season storing are easy to arrange and extend Li-ion battery service life.
> 
> ...


Not sure but C/5 seems to mean something totally different then 1C or even 5C. That nasa data is confusing since there's no explanation of what C/5, C/10, C/1 even mean. Unless they mean something odd like C=1C and C/5 is like 1C divided by 5 so it's like 0.2C. I'm just guessing at this point.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you have a charger for each battery this will speed up prep time.


Anyone who has been buying CCC(cheepchineescrap) for the last couple of years, like moi...

Will have a whole drawer full of chargers... :madman:


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Will this Action LED Lights - Brilliant lighting for all your biking & outdoor sporting activities. work for normal common batteries ?
I have 6 cell packs so just wanted a faster charge time than the 1.8's action sells .

But then again I still have one of those wall chargers the cheapo's come with ..


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

E-Rawk said:


> Thanks Gharddog03! Got 4 MJ-808-L2 bodies, a couple helmet mounts,wide angle lenses and some extra cables headed my way as well as 6 of those batteries.
> 
> I never thought I would regret my wife getting into mountain biking, but now I've realized I just have to double my order on EVERYTHING. All in all though, its pretty awesome. Now to figure out how to mount those Hunk Lee batteries on the bikes for the bar lights....


Here's how I mounted my 13600mAh pack under the bottle cages with the Magicshine Rubber battery straps from ActionLed. You'll notice I also pasti-dipped my packs to waterproof them. This keep the extra weight lower on the bike and away from the top tube where your knees are passing by, I tend to catch the straps when pedalling out of the saddle and just looks cleaner.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Looks good Rojo. Are the straps tight enough around the battery??


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

Gharddog03 said:


> Looks good Rojo. Are the straps tight enough around the battery??


If you notice the grey between the strap and battery that's 3m double sided tape( same used for gopro mounts. You need a little extra on the OD which these bare battery packs. They fit perfect on the magicshine and gloworm packs as well as others I'm sure. They are surprisingly stretchable so you can even fit a 6 cell pack into these 4 cell straps. The 6 cell straps work good for bare 8 cell packs in the wide configuration.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

RojoRacing53 said:


> You'll notice I also pasti-dipped my packs to waterproof them..
> View attachment 944417


Looks great! Did you dip or spray?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just tore down a battery pack which shows wrong configuration (end has 1 positive and 3 negatives). Upon further investigation I believe 2 of the cells are dummy cells! Just measure 0.00v across them! This is a typical cheap Chinese pack that came with a light. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Makes you wonder what some sellers are thinking? You get the light with a cheap battery, the light doesn't work, you complain to eBay and get the light for free. Or the seller has to resend a better battery? With the time to file a complaint extended, it doesn't make sense and it costs the seller money


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> I just tore down a battery pack which shows wrong configuration (end has 1 positive and 3 negatives). Upon further investigation I believe 2 of the cells are dummy cells! Just measure 0.00v across them! This is a typical cheap Chinese pack that came with a light.
> 
> -Garry


Which battery pack?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It came with a light GearBest sent me to review. I'll bring it up in the review (hope to post it in the near future. 

Oh, and the two working cells are way out of balance (3.64v and 3.95v). Light still performs the same off my Pannova case, other than runtime. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Which light? It truly is a crapshoot with those cheapo battery packs. Thank God for forums like this or the China crapshoot would be much much more of a gamble.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's this one: 3600LM Cree XM-L2 x 3 LEDs 18650 LED Bicycle Headlamp with 3 Adjustable Modes-28.98 and Free Shipping | GearBest.com Mobile

-Garry


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

matto6 said:


> Looks great! Did you dip or spray?


Dip 
It goes on super thick but 30 mins later when I starts to dry it all tightens up and becomes rather thin, I used 3 coats.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

garrybunk said:


> It's this one: 3600LM Cree XM-L2 x 3 LEDs 18650 LED Bicycle Headlamp with 3 Adjustable Modes-28.98 and Free Shipping | GearBest.com Mobile
> 
> -Garry


Looks like a nice light ..


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Does anyone have any experience with this particular battery?

Action-LED-Lights - MJ-6008 2200mAh Waterproof Battery

It's the Magicshine MJ-6008. A 2 cell 2200mAh pack, says it uses BAK(Bikeray?) cells. I just pieced together my first light setup after lurking here the past couple weeks and was hoping this battery will serve me well for my first setup. I ended up pre-ordering the "new" Yinding light head, and got this battery to run it. My night rides would be just a quick loop or two around my local spot, in my mind I was thinking 90 minutes of run time should be plenty for my needs(most of my riding is done during the day, night rides are more of a novelty thing, not a necessity for me). I'm pretty set on a 2 cell setup so I can mount the battery and lamp on my helmet without feelings completely like a bobblehead. From the pictures, the battery seems well made, although I know it's really what's inside that counts. So just wanted to ask if anyone had any first hand experience, or if someone more knowledgeable on the subject than I, could give me a rough estimate on run time and an opinion of overall quality of the battery pack. Thanks in advance.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

BAK cells are quite good ones. Magicshine use them for years. It is true 2200mAh. 
Giving Yinding would run with more than 2A to the leds, you are going to get about 1h runtime on full. Don't know what your trail looks like, but if it is bouncy I don't recomend puting batteries on the helmet. It is another 100gr+ on the head your neck would need to support. On drops this weight multiplies for the moment.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

+1 on what ledoman said. I have one of the 2-cell MS batteries. If you're going to run this with a Yinding lamp it will drain the battery quite fast if you use high most of the time. That said it should run for at least 50-60 on high. If you switch between medium and high and use high only when needed you should be able to get that 90 minutes without too much problem. 

The strategy I use when using a "light-weight" helmet setup is to only use the the helmet lamp when needed. When used in combo with a good bar set-up this is no big problem. I can milk a single 18650 cell using a single emitter torch and make it last two hours by just using medium 90% of the time. Than again if you ride with the helmet lamp off and turn the helmet lamp on only when needed ( assuming you have a bar lamp on ) you should be able to prolong the available battery power of the helmet lamp even more.

The 2-cell 2200mah Bak battery should work fine but for most people using a lamp with more than one emiitter I would usually recommend at least a 2600mAh 2-cell battery. The higher the Ah rating the better off you are since you only are using a two cell power source.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks for the replies guys. Good to know I got a quality battery. I did sent mtbrev an email asking about their Xeccon 2 cell 3400mAh pack, only about ten bucks more than the MS and it comes with Panasonic cells. Hopefully they have one in their Colorado facility, 3400mAh on a 2 cell pack would be nice. I can't wait to get everything and start experimenting!


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

csermonet said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. Good to know I got a quality battery. I did sent mtbrev an email asking about their Xeccon 2 cell 3400mAh pack, only about ten bucks more than the MS and it comes with Panasonic cells. Hopefully they have one in their Colorado facility, 3400mAh on a 2 cell pack would be nice. I can't wait to get everything and start experimenting!


Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 3400mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S1PM | eBay


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

csermonet said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. Good to know I got a quality battery. I did sent mtbrev an email asking about their Xeccon 2 cell 3400mAh pack, only about ten bucks more than the MS and it comes with Panasonic cells. Hopefully they have one in their Colorado facility, 3400mAh on a 2 cell pack would be nice. I can't wait to get everything and start experimenting!


Unfortunately Xeccon doesn't offer panasonic cells for the USA . Just the Sanyo's .


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Gharddog03 said:


> Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 3400mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S1PM | eBay


That's an awesome deal. I was aware of the Hunk Lee packs, but was weary because I have heard of longgg shipping times from China to the US. I guess now that I have the MS 2200mAh pack to hold me over, I can deal with a long wait time to get a second pack. What would you suggest doing to waterproof the pack?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

C.M.S said:


> Unfortunately Xeccon doesn't offer panasonic cells for the USA . Just the Sanyo's .


Actually the cells are Samsung ICR 18650 26F's. While these cells don't have the capacity of the Panasonic's they are capable of delivering a decent output current ( up to 5200ma ). I figure these should work well with a small helmet lamp that draws maybe 3A.

If you buy a HunkLee you have to worry about waterproofing the battery and making sure the connectors are compatible. Yes, it can be done but with the Xeccon battery you get a waterproof battery ready to go OTB as long as you aren't using a SStorm lamp. BTW I think the 2-cell Samsung 2600 2-cell is ~ *$20 USD, not a bad price and you get it within days. ( *not sure about shipping cost )


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've measured Samsung ICR 18650 26F's cells and they are the best price/performance cells on the lower price side. Up to 3A they can deliver true 2500-2600Ah, but they don't behave well over that mark. At 5A discharge curve bounce down and up. 
Since we are mostly using 2S2P packs it can deliver 6A without problem. 2S1P packs can be still good for 2 led lights, but not optimal for more. If I take a look at "KD2" light it pulls 1.7A which is peace of cake for those Samsung cells.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Actually the cells are Samsung ICR 18650 26F's. While these cells don't have the capacity of the Panasonic's they are capable of delivering a decent output current ( up to 5200ma ). I figure these should work well with a small helmet lamp that draws maybe 3A.
> 
> If you buy a HunkLee you have to worry about waterproofing the battery and making sure the connectors are compatible. Yes, it can be done but with the Xeccon battery you get a waterproof battery ready to go OTB as long as you aren't using a SStorm lamp. BTW I think the 2-cell Samsung 2600 2-cell is ~ *$20 USD, not a bad price and you get it within days. ( *not sure about shipping cost )


My bad , I meant Samsungs in my previous post not Sanyo .
I have a Xeccon (Samsung)7800 mah 6 cell pack and I'm very pleased with the run times , I run my Gemini Olympia *1477* off it and can easily ride 2 plus hrs and still be green on the light head button .
I purchased the soft shell and used 3M wide packing tape and taped the ends and used 3M weather adhesive ( Gorilla Snot) and ran a small bead inside where the wire goes into the shrink wrap to better water proof it .


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## Chrisonabike (Mar 29, 2013)

C.M.S said:


> Unfortunately Xeccon doesn't offer panasonic cells for the USA . Just the Sanyo's .


I think MTBRevolution occasionally ships the Panasonic batteries to the U.S. The batteries were available as an MTBR special a couple of months ago. I am hoping they get more in sometime soon. The lack of waterproofing of the Hunk Lee batteries scares me. No matter how hard I try it ends up raining during my night rides.

Has anyone tried the 5600 magicshine battery from Action LED. For $56 in a waterproof case it seems like a pretty good deal.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*review of new Solarstorm battery case*

Just posted the review of new Solarstorm battery case:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...tant-4-x-18650-battery-case-bicyc-943638.html


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

C.M.S said:


> Unfortunately Xeccon doesn't offer panasonic cells for the USA . Just the Sanyo's .


We had problems sending the last lot of Panasonic batteries only for the US. We ended up sending sets with 2 batteries per set which are just fulfilling pre-orders. Please contact us if you require these batteries, especially the 4-cell 6800s.

Xeccon only fits Samsung, Panasonic and BAK cells in their batteries. They do not use Sanyo or other branded (or non-branded) cells in their battery packs.

BTW the MS 5600mAh battery is actually only 5200mAh in reality. The particular Samsung ICR18650-28A cells within requires a 8.5V (not the standard 8.4V) charge to get to the maximum capacity. A runtime test will prove this.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

mtbRevolution said:


> We had problems sending the last lot of Panasonic batteries only for the US. We ended up sending sets with 2 batteries per set which are just fulfilling pre-orders. Please contact us if you require these batteries, especially the 4-cell 6800s.
> 
> Xeccon only fits Samsung, Panasonic and BAK cells in their batteries. They do not use Sanyo or other branded (or non-branded) cells in their battery packs.
> 
> BTW the MS 5600mAh battery is actually only 5200mAh in reality. The particular Samsung ICR18650-28A cells within requires a 8.5V (not the standard 8.4V) charge to get to the maximum capacity. A runtime test will prove this.


I am completely satisfied with your 7800 samsung 6 cell packs ;-) 
However I wouldn't mind a 6800 Panasonic 4 cell pack .


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

Chrisonabike said:


> Has anyone tried the 5600 magicshine battery from Action LED. For $56 in a waterproof case it seems like a pretty good deal.


I've used these for the last year to power my helmet and bar lights. They've performed great, and I really like the mounting system - works great for mounting on the stem. I ride at night a lot, so have 120+ charge cycles on the batteries and they are still holding up fine with no major reduction in capacity.

On the Hunk Lee batteries, I notice many are advertised as " waterproof". Does that not mean they'd hold up to a little water exposure? I understand the connectors aren't as secure, but they guy seems to be reputable and has a track record of delivering what he advertised, so I'm curious as to what his definition of "waterproof" is....


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

I know ledoman commented on the price/performance ratio for the Samsung cells a few posts back. I've seen it in other threads too.

The Tim Taylor-esc "More Power" side of me was screaming "But I was a pack with the Panasonics 3400 cells!"

This afternoon I actually priced it out. You can get four Samsung 2600 cells for under $16. That would make a 5200 pack. Four 3400s are $33.40 and would make a 6800 pack.

With the volume discount, eight Samsungs are $29.48, and would give you 10400 mAh of juice. That's quite a cost savings over the Panasonics, with a lot more power for less money. Either carried as four spare cells, or spend another $10 for a second SolarStorm BC-02 and you'd be golden with many hours of night riding goodness. With a second battery box, you've got backup redundancy too! With the new Yinding purchase, one of my current lights will become the backup lighthead in the pack.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

mtbRevolution said:


> BTW the MS 5600mAh battery is actually only 5200mAh in reality. The particular Samsung ICR18650-28A cells within requires a 8.5V (not the standard 8.4V) charge to get to the maximum capacity. A runtime test will prove this.


Yes Samsung 2800 and 3000mAh cells are 4.35V not 4.20V. In order to get full capacity you need to charge them higher. In the pack this would be 8.70V. Now if you have standard protection circuit it would not allow you to charge it that high. On the other hand those cell would have longer lifecycle as they are only aprox. 90% charged.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

csermonet said:


> That's an awesome deal. I was aware of the Hunk Lee packs, but was weary because I have heard of longgg shipping times from China to the US. I guess now that I have the MS 2200mAh pack to hold me over, I can deal with a long wait time to get a second pack. What would you suggest doing to waterproof the pack?


You can wrap them with self-fusing silicone tape (Home Depot).
I do that then armour them with some heat-shrink tubing.
Plasti-dip would work too, but is messy and toxic to breathe so it's an outdoor job. I actually paint the open ends of the heat-shrink sealed battery with a bit of plasti-dip for double sealing.


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## Conquer (Nov 29, 2014)

Hi there,
can you suggest me which battery should i buy? I'm waiting for new head unit to come (Yinding).
I was looking for those packs:
4500mAh External Battery Pack for Headlight Flashlight (6 x 18650 Battery)-12.64 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
$10.23 8.4V 4400mAh 2S2P 4*18650 Rechargeable Li-Ion Battery Pack - DC port 5.5mm / 500 times rechargeable at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023357


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

None of them!! Get the Hunk lee from ebay.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

dgw7000 said:


> None of them!! Get the Hunk lee from ebay.


Yes ^


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Or at least get the Solar Storm battery case, some good name brand protected cells (unless you are familiar with dangers of li-ions), and a good name brand charger.

Probably easiest to go the Hunk Lee route though. Just be sure to get a proper Li-ion charger to go with it. 

-Garry


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Get the charger from Actionledlights.com. The Gemini charger Is what I use.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Has anybody ever tried to use the rubber cover that comes with some cheapo battery packs to waterproof a decent one? 

I would be very interested if we could buy these rubber covers separately for 4-cell and especially 2-cell battery packs. It would solve a lot of problems.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I would say those rubber covers are usable. I have only one from HD-016. You would need to desolder cable from the PCB, pull it through the hole and solder it again. The cable should be thick enough (anyway).

Would you try to find those covers and protection circuits for cheap?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I would be very interested if we could buy these rubber covers separately for 4-cell


They were available on eBay for some time:
New Waterproof 2S2P Battery Pack Bag 4X 18650 XML 2 U2 T6 Bike Light Headlight | eBay

Probably, it's possible to find them from other sources, too...


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

The battery rubber covers are no longer available on eBay, and don't seem to be around elsewhere.

Anybody know if you can get the casing off this one for re-use?
MJ-6008 7.4V 2200mAh BAK Lithium-Ion Battery | Magicshine Canada


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> The battery rubber covers are no longer available on eBay, and don't seem to be around elsewhere.
> 
> Anybody know if you can get the casing off this one for re-use?
> MJ-6008 7.4V 2200mAh BAK Lithium-Ion Battery | Magicshine Canada


Oh cat crap, I've got one of those somewhere but can't find it at the moment. I also have a Xeccon 2-cell version and yes you can open it up.

My gut tells me that logically the MS version is the same because there has to be a way to get the battery inside. I'm sure they don't mold the rubber with the battery inside..

I never thought about using the rubber cover on these batteries before for another battery. That's an interesting idea. I'm gonna put that on a back burner if I decide to go HLee 4-cell....and speaking of HLee...>

...Has anyone done a discharge comparison using any of the Hunk Lee batteries. I'm just wondering since so many people seem to be buying the HLee batteries. Dang it, I need to get me a hobby charger with a discharge/Ah readout function.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> Dang it, I need to get me a hobby charger with a discharge/Ah readout function.


I JUST got me a new hobby charger for Christmas and am learning how to use it, BUT I don't own any Hunk Lee batteries! At this point I can't even be certain my discharge results are accurate - I will be doing more testing soon. I would be willing to test a battery pack or two if someone wants to mail theirs to me.

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I tested some of the Hunk Lee packs made with Panasonic 3400s and they were very close to the capacity listed.

I wish Hunk Lee could sell the rubber casings as well- then we'd really have something easy for the less DIY types rather than plasti-dip or wrapping in self-fusing silicone tape then heat-shrink.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea, I just Plasti-dip my H-Lee 4 cell Pan. 3400. It takes about 3 dippings to seal really good. The great thing about the dip it does not add a lot of thickness to battery, so putting it in my backpack is easy and space saving.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

This is my new favorite 2 cell battery it came with the Fenix BT20 light I just got off ebay for 51 bucks. I wanted to try the Fenix lights but I really wanted that 2 cell battery case so I could try my new Callie's Kustoms 3600MAH cells. These cells kick ass, 2 hours on high last night ride with no problem. This 2 cell combo will out perform some 4 cell packs, but you will pay for them "pricey". I wish I could find a good 4 cell case then just add your own cells.
The Fenix light by the way is really nice, well made but heavy. The bottom base has a nice built in swivel. Its definitely a true 750 Lumen light, maybe more. Jim at Actionled also sells this light.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> Yea, I just Plasti-dip my H-Lee 4 cell Pan. 3400. It takes about 3 dippings to seal really good. The great thing about the dip it does not add a lot of thickness to battery, so putting it in my backpack is easy and space saving.


What did you wrap it in first- anything for strain relief or a pre-coat?
Plasti-dip stinks and is toxic to breathe indoors, so hard to do in Canada in winter, even though it works really well.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

No need to do anything but dip it, I just dunk it in slow-out slow. Let dry over night, than 2nd and 3rd time. Totally sealed and waterproof. Hunk Lee does a great job making the battery. Especially for the price, quality of build and cells.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

dgw7000 said:


> No need to do anything but dip it, I just dunk it in slow-out slow. Let dry over night, than 2nd and 3rd time. Totally sealed and waterproof. Hunk Lee does a great job making the battery. Especially for the price, quality of build and cells.


Careful not to yank on the cord. If it shorts it can catch fire.

I like to have it attached more firmly than just plasti-dip and soldered connections- I usually wrap tape around it and then around the battery, or I bond it with Plumber's Goop.

I suppose a zip tie embedded in plasti-dip might be strong enough.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I tested some of the Hunk Lee packs made with Panasonic 3400s and they were very close to the capacity listed.
> 
> I wish Hunk Lee could sell the rubber casings as well- then we'd really have something easy for the less DIY types rather than plasti-dip or wrapping in self-fusing silicone tape then heat-shrink.


I bet if someone contacts him and requests the rubber casings he might be able to come up with them ( although I'm sure they will cost extra ).

I don't know if I'd be willing to mess with Plastic dip. The self-fusing silicone tape works but is bulky. Another option is to use Duck tape. Comes in a variety of colors and looks to be pretty water resistant. Combo black Duck tape with some black plastic electrical tape and I think it should work pretty good.

Just make sure water has no way to travel down the power cord to enter the battery and you should be good to go. Some clear silicone sealant where the cord enters the battery should do the trick.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anybody here familiar with this NEW Waterproof 6*18650 Battery Set For LED Bicycle Lights(8.4V 6600mAh) from Lights-Box?









I'd get it just for the waterproof case, it's the same type comes with MagicShine save that they use rectangular connectors in their 6-cell - LT's looks like it's round and would fit the TrustFire TR-D014 7-LED over at DX. Yeah the same lighthead is also available in a package with its own waterproof battery pack from TrustFire, which might be slightly less of a risk, but the belted rubberized LT case is just so far superior to the TF woven nylon/velcro pouch. Love the one that came with my MagicShine 816.

So whaddya think guys, is Lights-Box okay to deal with? Don't see this unit for sale anywhere else. Thanks.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

My buddy has that with his Magicshine light and says its too big and does not like the straps, that's all I know about it!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> I bet if someone contacts him and requests the rubber casings he might be able to come up with them ( although I'm sure they will cost extra ).
> 
> I don't know if I'd be willing to mess with Plastic dip. The self-fusing silicone tape works but is bulky. Another option is to use Duck tape. Comes in a variety of colors and looks to be pretty water resistant. Combo black Duck tape with some black plastic electrical tape and I think it should work pretty good.


There are different self fusing tapes. The one I use is thin and very flexible, and very waterproof. It's not all that tough, so I like to place a layer of heat shrink tubing over top.

Duck tape will be a lot sloppier.


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

can anyone steer me in the direction of a 4x18650 battery pack with quality batteries, and a flat configuration, rather than square? ideally the connection would be threaded to match the solar storm lights.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

I was going to say Hunk Lee will build what you want. Then I looked at his store. He already builds what you want with Sanyo cells. If you wanted it with Samsung, or Panasonic batteries, I'm sure he'd do that too.

A Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 5200mah Battery Pack with PCM 4Cells to 2S2P w Plug | eBay


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah it's too bad hunk_lee hasn't offered any packs inside a case yet. Maybe we should all request that. I'd really like a flat 4-pack too, to fit more comfortably inside an inner jacket pocket. Don't feel secure handling packs without the rubberized boot.


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## murrdogg11 (Apr 4, 2010)

Ian_C said:


> I was going to say Hunk Lee will build what you want. Then I looked at his store. He already builds what you want with Sanyo cells. If you wanted it with Samsung, or Panasonic batteries, I'm sure he'd do that too.
> 
> A Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 5200mah Battery Pack with PCM 4Cells to 2S2P w Plug | eBay


Right on, thanks!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Noticed over the last year or so that my Gemini 6 cell packs have been giving crappy runtime, even worse than the 4 cell packs that I got around the same time. It's especially noticeable in cold weather. Does anyone think it's worth getting a case and one of the 4 cell chargers people have posted and trying to balance out the cells? I'm wondering if it can be a balance issue more than worn out cells since the 4 cell packs seem ok and it's just the 6 cells that are performing badly .


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

It could be either cells out of balance or degraded cells. If you're planning to disassemble the pack and test actual capacity of each cell - most logical way IMHO is, to buy so-called "hobby charger"...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I have this :
Traxxas Ez-Peak Plus 6-Amp LiPo/NiMH Charger (TRA2933) | RC Planet

From when I used to have RC cars. Is it use able at all?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes of course. If it is accurate enough, then is perfect to balance your pack. Or alternatively you can charge each set of 3 in parallel as one big 4.2V cell.
Anyway, before charging check the voltages of each set to see how it differs and recognize this is a problem or not.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You could also rig up something like this if you are careful enough and know what you're doing:










This could be done with two cells in parallel or cells individually.

Just checking your cells for balance could be done like this:


















-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

manbeer said:


> I have this :
> Traxxas Ez-Peak Plus 6-Amp LiPo/NiMH Charger (TRA2933) | RC Planet
> 
> From when I used to have RC cars. Is it use able at all?


Sure! You may also add standard balancing leads to the pack, as the charger supports it.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Looks like I will be ripping into boxes until I find my RC stuff. Hopefully still have all the attachments. I do have a DMM so I will probably dig into the packs this weekend and see what I'm dealing with


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, this is the first step you should do, to see voltages of each set (of 3 prallel cells) in the pack.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Got my 4 pcs. 2600mAh Samsungs from FT today shipped using NL post with a message from Euro-Circus administrative meaning it was processed by customs office  At least we have stickers for almost everything


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Is there any disadvantage to re soldering batteries using wire and not the metal straps that they originally come with?


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes. Overheating will damage cell's inbuilt insulation/protection elements, and degrade it's capacity.

In many datasheets, soldering is explicitly prohibited by cell's manufacturers.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yep, should be spot-welded in all cases.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Crap, looks like I'm going to have a hard time putting them back together then


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Not really. Just cut the metal strips connecting the cells, not tear them off - so, each cell will have short tabs attached to it. After measurement/testing, you can safely solder them back (use additional wires as necessary), without risk of overheating the cell.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for the tip. Luckily I only opened up a cheapo China battery so far and didn't get into the decent ones yet. On another note, is it common for cells to not register voltage at all? This cheap battery just died mid ride once and I just checked, no voltage at all on any of the cells. Seems odd. I checked a cr123 that I had sitting around just to make sure it wasn't my meter


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

You're welcome. I've seen completely dead Chinese cells, but it's highly unlikely all of them will die simultaneously. What namely battery you're talking about? Common 4-cells 2p2s one?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> Thanks for the tip. Luckily I only opened up a cheapo China battery so far and didn't get into the decent ones yet. On another note, is it common for cells to not register voltage at all? This cheap battery just died mid ride once and I just checked, no voltage at all on any of the cells. Seems odd. I checked a cr123 that I had sitting around just to make sure it wasn't my meter


Hmmm...I doubt this will do anything but for the hell of it hook the battery pack up to the charger for a couple minutes and then recheck the cells. Could be the cells might be protected and are shutting down because they were depleted. A protected 18650 will register zero volts if the ( on-board ) PCB has shut it down. A quick exposure to charge voltage should re-set if that is the case. Once reset then check the voltage on each cell with the Mmeter. If this doesn't work I don't know what to say.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

You hit the nail on the head. It was a 15 dollar China battery so I guess whatever cells that they happened to strip from whatever they stripped them from happened to be protected. Few mins on the charger reset them

Edit- maybe that's why the battery died so abruptly without the indicator lights ever showing it running down, if a bum cell was in series I guess the pcb would prevent voltage from passing through it, right?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> You hit the nail on the head. It was a 15 dollar China battery so I guess whatever cells that they happened to strip from whatever they stripped them from happened to be protected. Few mins on the charger reset them
> 
> Edit- maybe that's why the battery died so abruptly without the indicator lights ever showing it running down, if a bum cell was in series I guess the pcb would prevent voltage from passing through it, right?


Hard to say what was going on with the voltage indicators. If the battery stopped working before going to red ( or blinking red ) that would tend to indicate the battery was still charged. A possible cause for the shut down might be an intermittent short somewhere in the power cable. Because PCB's have short circuit protection as well a short will shut a battery down real fast. Sometimes the area around the plugs go bad. Cold weather tends to bring these problems out because the cold makes the wires stiff.

You might want to charge the battery half way and then measure the voltage on each cell to see how closely matched they are. Then wait a couple hours and measure again to see if there is a drop in any of the cells. If you notice an unusual amount of self discharge it might be time to replace the pack.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Get yourself some 4 pcs of 2600 Samsungs @ Fasttech and a nice Solarstorm box @ Gearbest, all in all for $23-24. And you'll get a 5200mAh/7.4V pack. All your troubles with strange cells anomaly will be gone forever ;-)



manbeer said:


> You hit the nail on the head. It was a 15 dollar China battery so I guess whatever cells that they happened to strip from whatever they stripped them from happened to be protected. Few mins on the charger reset them
> 
> Edit- maybe that's why the battery died so abruptly without the indicator lights ever showing it running down, if a bum cell was in series I guess the pcb would prevent voltage from passing through it, right?


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I was thinking of getting those boxes in hopes that I could salvage 2 sets of 4 from my old 6 cell Gemini packs. The plot thickens at this point because from what I remember mine are actually 4.35 volt cells and from what I can tell the solarstorm pcb will cutoff before they reach full charge



MK96 said:


> Get yourself some 4 pcs of 2600 Samsungs @ Fasttech and a nice Solarstorm box @ Gearbest, all in all for $23-24. And you'll get a 5200mAh/7.4V pack. All your troubles with strange cells anomaly will be gone forever ;-)


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

2600 Samsung shall be 4.2V, 2800 as well, only 3000 and up shall be 4.35V.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

2800 mAh Samsung ICR18650-28A is a 4.30V cell.


----------



## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Get yourself some 4 pcs of 2600 Samsungs @ Fasttech and a nice Solarstorm box @ Gearbest, all in all for $23-24. And you'll get a 5200mAh/7.4V pack. All your troubles with strange cells anomaly will be gone forever ;-)


Quick question - is it ok to then also charge the four cells while in the battery box or should they be taken out and charged individually in a charger such as the Nitecor I4?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> 2800 mAh Samsung ICR18650-28A is a 4.30V cell.


Now that I learned something new, thanks for the info!



juergenor said:


> Quick question - is it ok to then also charge the four cells while in the battery box or should they be taken out and charged individually in a charger such as the Nitecor I4?


You can charge the cells in the box if you have quality brand cells (Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, ...) and charge them separately after 5-10 charge cycles in the box. Just check 'em occasionally with a DMM.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Didn't realize how cheap those cells were on fasttech. Def seems like a good way to go. Are there any 6 cell holders out there? Would like to be able to extend the runtime a bit. The last (8400? ) mah Gemini packs were perfect when they were new


----------



## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Now that I learned something new, thanks for the info!
> 
> You can charge the cells in the box if you have quality brand cells (Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, ...) and charge them separately after 5-10 charge cycles in the box. Just check 'em occasionally with a DMM.


Thanks - that is helpful. I have panasonic cells - spares me some time. Thanks for this great advice.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> > Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
> > 2800 mAh Samsung ICR18650-28A is a 4.30V cell.
> 
> 
> ...


One of the things I've noticed while shopping for good 18650's on Fasttech is that they list certain Samsung cells that are designed with slightly higher peak voltage, usually 4.3-4.35 volts. When deciding what to buy the buyer needs to be aware not to buy this type of cell "IF" they are intending to buy the typical 4.2 volt peak 18650 type Li-ion cell.

Nothing wrong with using the cells with the higher peak voltage but if you are using a conventional charger you won't get the maximum capacity from the cells. To charge these cells to the higher voltage you will need a special charger that can be set for the higher charge.

You can still charge the cells with a normal charger, no problem with that but you won't get the best run times. On the up side if you undercharge the battery there is a better chance that the battery will last longer ( age less ), particularly if you tend to charge and store the battery at full charge.

* For people who aren't aware; all Li-ion cells will list the _nominal voltage at 3.7 volts_ ( although some are listed as 3.6 volts ) The _"Peak voltage" rating is always higher and for typical cells are listed as 4.2 volts_. Only the newer special cells list the higher 4.35 volt peak voltage. Right now not too many manufacturers are making these. The only ones that I've come across are made by Samsung although I think Panasonic might have a version as well ( someone correct me on that if I'm wrong ).


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

The XTAR VP2 charger Mike got that deal on for us at GB has voltage input selection.

Output: DC 3.0/4.35v
3.0v/3.2v LiFePO4 Battery Charger (Charges to 3.2v)
3.6v/3.7v Li-ion Battery Charger (Charges to 4.2v)
3.8v Li-ion Battery Charger (Charges to 4.35v)

Now where was that coupon again?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Interestingly enough, when I checked their site, the vp4, which looks identical seems to have a fixed 4.2 cutoff and not the adjustable output like the vp2. Not the end of the world but I like the idea of 4 bays


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

One problem with those selectable voltage chargers is that you may forget to switch it back to 4.2v when charging 4.2v cells. That would or at least could be extremely dangerous. These 4.3/4.35v cells are great for single cell flashlights to keep battery voltage higher than the vF (forward voltage) of the LED, but I don't think they're so useful with bike lights. LG also has 4.35v cells. Interestingly enough, some cell phones use 4.35v batteries.

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> One problem with those selectable voltage chargers is that you may forget to switch it back to 4.2v when charging 4.2v cells. That would or at least could be extremely dangerous.-Garry


I agree, unless you know you'll only ever be using it to charge one single voltage of cells and will never have to change the setting again it's not worth the risk.

Already have eight 4.2v unprotected Panasonics heading my way so am ordering the XTAR VP4 with the single voltage.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

As far as we know, there are no six cell battery boxes. But you could carry two extra cells and load them in the box when the other four are done. Or better yet, get two full sets of the Samsungs, giving you 10400 mAh for just under $30. Carry the extra four, and swap when needed.

The VP2 is considered a better charger than the VP4.
Review of Charger Xtar VP2
Review of Charger Xtar VP4

With four cells, the VP4 drops the current and lengthens the charge time. Charging two sets of two cells works out to be about the same time


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Ian_C said:


> The VP2 is considered a better charger than the VP4.
> Review of Charger Xtar VP2
> Review of Charger Xtar VP4
> 
> With four cells, the VP4 drops the current and lengthens the charge time. Charging two sets of two cells works out to be about the same time


Only "advantage" of the XTAR V2 is its ability to charge different voltages of cells. But as Garry mentioned above, you have to set the voltage manually and if you forget... well, you don't wanna forget. If you're only charging 18650 4.2v cells, it's less of a PITA to use XTAR's single voltage 4-cell charger then their quick charge 2-cell and have to switch them out to fill a 4-cell battery case. And the 4-cell charger is only four dollars more, so it's worth it to me for advoiding the little headache of the VP2. My three cents. ;-)


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Here's the deal that was posted. With the coupon code the VP2 is much cheaper than a few bucks and the lowest price that I have seen.

It's the SolarStorm battery box for $9.99
Solarstorm New 2S2P 8.4V 2000mAh Dual Water-resistant 4 x 18650 External Battery Pack for Bicycle Light Digital Device-11.28 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: New2S2P

The XTAR VP2 for $25.79
Xtar VP2 2-Slot Intelligent LED Monitor Li-ion Battery Charger with Car Charger Used as Power Bank - US Plug-34.09 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: XVP2S

The Nitecore i4 for $17.98
EU Plug: New Version Nitecore i4 Intellicharger Digi Charger with Indicator for 26650 22650 18490 - EU Plug-21.77 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
US Plug: New Version Nitecore i4 Intellicharger Digi Charger with Indicator for 26650 22650 18490 - US Plug-21.77 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: NVNCM

This way you have a choice of a 2 cell or 4 cell charger. The XTAR should charge 4 batteries faster than the Nitecore. There are more expensive options yet both are good budget options.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for laying that all out. I will probably order both chargers and use the vp2 specifically for 4.35 volt cells, this way I won't need to worry about forgetting to switch. Charging time isn't a huge concern for me, but being around to switch pairs of batteries too often will be inconvenient. However, I am wondering if a set of fully charged 4.35v cells will cause any problems with the battery holder PCB thinking they are 9 recharged or something is a miss.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

manbeer said:


> Thanks for laying that all out. I will probably order both chargers and use the vp2 specifically for 4.35 volt cells, this way I won't need to worry about forgetting to switch. Charging time isn't a huge concern for me, but being around to switch pairs of batteries too often will be inconvenient. However, I am wondering if a set of fully charged 4.35v cells will cause any problems with the battery holder PCB thinking they are 9 recharged or something is a miss.


I will check, unless someone can confirm, that the XTAR VP2 resets when unplugged. My small XTAR resets to the lower output when unplugged.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

GJHS said:


> I will check, unless someone can confirm, that the XTAR VP2 resets when unplugged. My small XTAR resets to the lower output when unplugged.


if that's the case then it will be just fine having the one, hopefully it is true of the vp2


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

*Too slowly open in China.*


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just received my 6 cell pack from xeccon. Haven't had a chance to try it yet but it looks really nice...thicker wire than most I have seen with a silicone jacket and thick neoprene pouch. Very impressive for the price!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

HunkLee said:


>


Hey, welcome Hunk Lee! Fantastic to have a reputable battery supplier here. I was one of the first MTBR guys to order batteries and chargers from your eBay store, years ago, and you were always able to meet my custom requirements.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

The charge voltage on the VP2 is not set in software. It has a physical switch. It will not reset when unpluged.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

ZEFAL All Weather Bicycle Bag Top Tube Ride Bag Easy to Mount 4 Keys Phone Money | eBay

Went clothes shopping with the mrs yesterday at a local store that sells all kinds of random clearance stuff and this caught my eye. I paid like 6 bucks for it and can confirm that it nicely fits two 6 cell packs or three 4 cell packs in a nice location to keep wiring tidy. Good if you run multiple handlebar lights and a tail and prefer separate batteries for each. All in all I couldn't be happier, it's of nice quality and fits like a glove


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Andddd I just adopted a new dog so I probably won't get to check out my new xeccon pack for a couple weeks. Trying to get him adjusted to his new home


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Just in case you missed it, GearBest says they can get the illusive Fenix BA4C 2 Cell Battery Case for 18650 batteries.

If you're want one go to the linked thread and express your interest.
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/fenix-ba4c-case-found-946922.html


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## ChanceG (Nov 17, 2014)

Does anyone know where I can get a 8 cell/8x18650 holder from? Nylon for mounting to your bike from???


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Not sure if this should be in a separate thread but was wondering if anyone who is familiar with both the XTAR VP2 and the Opus could let me know if they prefer one over the other? So far the Opus looks like it provides the features I need (4.35v charging) like the vp2 but with 4 bays


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You realize the OPUS's 4.35v switch is hidden inside, right? I cut a hole in the bottom of mine for access, but haven't used it. It's probably not a switch that can withstand a lot of use. Also dangerous to forget to switch it back.
There were also issues with the voltage calibration of the OPUS and opening it up to remove jumper solder blob was required to "fix" it (i.e. it terminated charge at about 4.15v instead of 4.20v prior to the fix). 
Lots of info on the OPUS over at BudgetLightForum.com, just be sure to look at the v.2.1 threads. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

In my research the VP2 is a much better charger than the Opus. 
VP2 review
Review of Charger Xtar VP2

Here's the review on the Opus 
Review of Charger Opus BT-C3100 V2.1

People like 4 bay chargers yet they seem much slower than the 2 bay chargers


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok never mind, the vp2 will probably be a better fit for what I need. Garry, I saw in some of your pics that you had the Opus and when I saw that it also offered 4.35v I figured it may be a feasible 4 bay alternative. Looks like vp2 it is, trying to take advantage of the gb anniversary special and put together an order


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

manbeer said:


> Ok never mind, the vp2 will probably be a better fit for what I need. Garry, I saw in some of your pics that you had the Opus and when I saw that it also offered 4.35v I figured it may be a feasible 4 bay alternative. Looks like vp2 it is, trying to take advantage of the gb anniversary special and put together an order


With Coupon XVP2S, the VP2 is 25.79
Xtar VP2 2-Slot Intelligent LED Monitor Li-ion Battery Charger with Car Charger Used as Power Bank - US Plug-34.09 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

I'm not sure if the sale makes it more or less. It's the VP2 without car cable


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That's awesome, it's definitely less than the sale price would be. Thanks 



GJHS said:


> With Coupon XVP2S, the VP2 is 25.79
> Xtar VP2 2-Slot Intelligent LED Monitor Li-ion Battery Charger with Car Charger Used as Power Bank - US Plug-34.09 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
> 
> I'm not sure if the sale makes it more or less. It's the VP2 without car cable


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

manbeer said:


> That's awesome, it's definitely less than the sale price would be. Thanks


Just keep in mind that it doesn't include the car charging cable. If you need it PM me


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

GJHS said:


> With Coupon XVP2S, the VP2 is 25.79
> Xtar VP2 2-Slot Intelligent LED Monitor Li-ion Battery Charger with Car Charger Used as Power Bank - US Plug-34.09 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
> 
> I'm not sure if the sale makes it more or less. It's the VP2 without car cable


That code is coming up as expired.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I will confirm tonight and try and see if May can extend it, if you can wait.

There was also a deal on the Nitecore i4 for $18. That one too?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Not sure about eb1988, I'm in for a vp2 though. Oddly enough all the items that I wanted to use the anniversary coupon for are already discounted though and if I apply the code it ends up being more instead of just not applying. It's an odd system


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You guys have me tempted to pickup that VP2 with the discount too! Ugh!

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

ok VP2 people write [email protected] and she will help.


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

This is a huge friggin' thread, no way I'm reading through it. I just want to know if I can use a Magicshine compatible battery with a Cygolite light head. MS: 7.4V, Cygolite: 7.6V (for Tridenx). If I can, does anyone know where I can find an adaptor? Grassyass.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anyone familiar with this 8.4V 6x18650 Rechargeable Waterproof Battery Set with Pouch For LED Bike Lights (Samsung 2800mah Cell Inside)? Good silicone/rubber boot, crappy nylon bag. At around $32 doesn't sound too bad a deal, if they're legit. Thanks.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

The price looks attractive, if it's indeed genuine. But Samsung 2800 is 4.3V cell, so you'll need special charger to obtain full capacity.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> But Samsung 2800 is 4.3V cell, so you'll need special charger to obtain full capacity.


.

You could think of it as some additional overcharge protection (i.e. charging to 8.5v would still be safe), however you will lose capacity. I think the 2600mAh Samsung will end up with more capacity from 4.2v / 8.4v. I know this is the case with the Sanyo 2600 vs the Sanyo 2800 4.3v cells.

-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> The price looks attractive, if it's indeed genuine. But Samsung 2800 is 4.3V cell, so you'll need special charger to obtain full capacity.


Ooh, thanks for the heads-up, Archie. Yeah so would need 8.6V charger (which AFAIK doesn't exist) because it's a sealed pack and the cells can't be charged individually. Oh well, cells last longer if not charged to full capacity  - though perhaps the difference here of just .1V would not be significant in that regard.

Other thing I'm wondering about, as the cells themselves are unprotected, does the case include overcharge protrection? Doesn't say on LM, so am assuming the worst. At least the newer MagicShine chargers I've got lying around seem to be calibrated pretty well, and just about all light heads being manufactured nowadays include over-discharge protection. So nothing to worry about, huh? 

Anyway, haven't found a higher quality six-pack listed anywhere else, and certainly not at that price.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> .
> 
> You could think of it as some additional overcharge protection (i.e. charging to 8.5v would still be safe), however you will lose capacity. I think the 2600mAh Samsung will end up with more capacity from 4.2v / 8.4v. I know this is the case with the Sanyo 2600 vs the Sanyo 2800 4.3v cells.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks Garry, LM does have a similar six-pack made with SamSung 2600, for only $29.79.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I would venture to guess that if that pack has overcharge protection it will be a standard 8.40v protection type and NOT setup for 8.6v. This has been the case with protected individual cells (4.30v cells are having 4.20v protection circuits on them).

-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> I would venture to guess that if that pack has overcharge protection it will be a standard 8.40v protection type and NOT setup for 8.6v. This has been the case with protected individual cells (4.30v cells are having 4.20v protection circuits on them).
> 
> -Garry


Yeah, the title says 8.4V. So maybe that means there _is_ overcharge protection? Or just that there is no way to charge a pack to 8.6V. Most likely though LM being careless. Eh, I'd go with the 2600 pack anyway, based on your previous observations.

Thanks again Garry.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

HKJ's 18650 Comparator has the Samsung 2800mAh tested from 4.2v (as well as a test from 4.30v too which is NOT shown below) and so I compared it to the Samsung 2600's and the 2600's do come out on top (higher voltage during discharge too) - 3A discharge shown:










-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> HKJ's 18650 Comparator has the Samsung 2800mAh tested from 4.2v (as well as a test from 4.30v too which is NOT shown below) and so I compared it to the Samsung 2600's and the 2600's do come out on top (higher voltage during discharge too) - 3A discharge shown:
> 
> -Garry


Thanks again for that. Funny but I was specifically thinking about discharge rate when looking around for a six-pack, because the intended use would be to power either multiple-emitter or multiple light heads.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> Ooh, thanks for the heads-up, Archie. Yeah so would need 8.6V charger (which AFAIK doesn't exist) because it's a sealed pack and the cells can't be charged individually.


You're welcome! As for charger - I have never seen 8.6V (and 8.7V are quite rare, too), but it isn't difficult to make one, or use lab PSU instead.



> Other thing I'm wondering about, as the cells themselves are unprotected, does the case include overcharge protrection? Doesn't say on LM, so am assuming the worst.


I'm pretty sure protection is included.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> I would venture to guess that if that pack has overcharge protection it will be a standard 8.40v protection type and NOT setup for 8.6v.


Most likely, PCB have some margin: they're typically triggered not exactly at 4.2V but at some higher value.



> This has been the case with protected individual cells (4.30v cells are having 4.20v protection circuits on them).


Can't say for 4.3V cells, but 4.35V protected Samsungs I'm using are equipped with PCBs that definitely allows me to charge them to the full voltage...


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> Can't say for 4.3V cells, but 4.35V protected Samsungs I'm using are equipped with PCBs that definitely allows me to charge them to the full voltage...


Interesting, I've not heard of any, though I see few actually tested and posted about.

-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> I'm pretty sure protection is included.


Well I would certainly _hope_ so, Archie!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Anyone familiar with this 8.4V 6x18650 Rechargeable Waterproof Battery Set with Pouch For LED Bike Lights (Samsung 2800mah Cell Inside)? Good silicone/rubber boot, crappy nylon bag. At around $32 doesn't sound too bad a deal, if they're legit. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 965456


Don't know where all the talk of 2800mAh cells came from as the original post ( above ) is linked to a battery using 2600mAh Samsungs. As for protection, as far as I know all battery packs include a PCB with protection, it's just how it's done.

Now if this battery is using real ( brand-spanking-new ) Samsungs than this is a very, very good deal. This 2S-3P set-up would be an actual 7800mAh battery ( 6 cells )! Excuse me for being pessimistic but this is almost too good to be true. My gut tells me something is not right here. I'm hesitate to believe this battery is using true Samsung cells, regardless of what wrapper might be on the cells themselves.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Oops*



Cat-man-do said:


> Don't know where all the talk of 2800mAh cells came from as the original post ( above ) is linked to a battery using 2600mAh Samsungs. As for protection, as far as I know all battery packs include a PCB with protection, it's just how it's done.
> 
> Now if this battery is using real ( brand-spanking-new ) Samsungs than this is a very, very good deal. This 2S-3P set-up would be an actual 7800mAh battery ( 6 cells )! Excuse me for being pessimistic but this is almost too good to be true. My gut tells me something is not right here. I'm hesitate to believe this battery is using true Samsung cells, regardless of what wrapper might be on the cells themselves.


Sorry Cat, my mistake trying to insert the link. Came out inactive first time, edited in wrong link on second attempt but it's fixed now. Thanks for the heads up.

Buy 8.4V 6x18650 Rechargeable Waterproof Battery Set with Pouch For LED Bike Lights (Samsung 2800mah Cell Inside) , from for $31.75 only in Main Website. Worldwide Free Shipping!

Yeah, does sound too good to be true, because same [genuine] six cells loose would sell for a bit more. But had heard LM had a good reputation on its batteries and couldn't find any name brands in a six pack of that mAh elsewhere. Anyway because of the whole charging issue it doesn't look like such a great deal now, at least not for me.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Only $44.95 for a Sanyo 2S3P pack from Hunk Lee: A Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 7800mAh Battery Pack with PCM 6Cells to 2S3P w Plug | eBay

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

So, speaking of overcharge protection...

Weirdest thing just happened. Had been comparing the SS X3 I just picked up from the PO with my KD and YD, attaching to two different battery packs: new SolarStorm + unprotected Panasonics, and older MJ-828 (one with the built-in, touch-illuminated voltmeter.) After which, figuring the 828 battery pack would have the more reliable overcharge protection, plugged that one back into my cheapo generic Chinese 1A charger, and the SS/Panny pack into my trustworthy 1.8A MagicShiner. While charging, noticed the 828's back-lit touch display coming on every now and then, which I attributed to the rocking of my rickety old work table while I mashed my key board. Anyway, after a few minutes the MagicShine charger's LED turned green, while the cheapo charger remained red. Display on MJ-828 connected to it read 8.5V. Yikes! Disconnected el cheapo, which goes back green. Back lit display on battery goes out, won't come back on anymore. Tried letting it rest, discharging some more, recharging, nada. Will still power lamp just fine. P*sses me off is that I just ordered a second MJ-818 tail light, comes with another MS charger and very same MJ-828 battery pack. Hope the new one is not as tempermental; display on my old unit had always been fiddly but attributed that to my own propensity for carrying static charges, not so good for electronics.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> So, speaking of overcharge protection...
> 
> Weirdest thing just happened.


IMHO, what you've described is quite normal operation of MJ-828 protection. Max charging voltage for such cell is typically 4.20 +/- 0.05 V, so total voltage of 8.5 V is within allowable range: not sufficient for the PCB to triggering.

As for the voltmeter display failure - it's totally separate module, not related to the protection PCB at all. Maybe its life just ended, or some poorly soldered wire disconnected inside. You may open the case and inspect it.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> IMHO, what you've described is quite normal operation of MJ-828 protection. Max charging voltage for such cell is typically 4.20 +/- 0.05 V, so total voltage of 8.5 V is within allowable range: not sufficient for the PCB to triggering.
> 
> As for the voltmeter display failure - it's totally separate module, not related to the protection PCB at all. Maybe its life just ended, or some poorly soldered wire disconnected inside. You may open the case and inspect it.


Well the MJ-828 had never registered above 8.4V before. On its own MagicShine charger, would take about fifteen minutes at least to get from 8.3V to 8.4. Last night on el cheapo, shot up to 8.5 within five minutes, though the charger's LED was still lit red. Couldn't tell if the MagicShine PCB had cut off, the display itself gives no indication whether the cells are charging other than by the progression of it digits. And I had no intention of waiting around to see it go to 8.6V!

Ran down the 828 a bit over night, this morning the backlight still seemed dead. Plugged it into the MagicShine charger, no improvement. Switched it over to the cheapo charger and ta-da, display lights up again. Unplug from charger, after few seconds display turns off, as it should. Touch the capacitive area and it lights back up. But this time after it goes out again my fingers can't trigger it back on. Fifteen minutes later seemed to be working a bit better, just need to touch it very gently and swipe across from left to right like on an iPhone - which is NOT how it's supposed to work. Connect it back to cheapo, again lights up, 8.2V. Switch over to MS charger, LED goes red, but 828 display doesn't light up in response and won't to my touch either. Back to cheapo charger, display again lights up, grudgingly responds to my touch couple times there after then kaputsky.

New MS setup ordered on Amazon last week is now scheduled for delivery yesterday. Should it ever arrive, will be able to test out all three chargers on both old and new battery packs, see what gives.

Thanks Archie!

Edit: Okay, now something _really_ weird is going on. Reconnected battery pack to el cheapo, try to monitor cut off. LED still red, touch display reads 8.5V. Illumination stayed on for few minutes, finally went out though charger still red. Fine. Bit later and display has become hyper-sensitive, turns on just by me hovering finger tip over it, not even touching. Then just by breathing on it. Next, I simply turn to look at the gosh darned thing and bang!, on, 8.5V. While still illuminated, switch over to MS charger, says 8.4V. Display konks out but comes back to life on el cheapo. Now lights up by touch when connected MS but to NOT el cheapo, whose indicator is still red... Attaching quickly prevents display from illuminating, connecting slowly at sharp angle and display turns on. So perhaps a little short or something in MJ-828 female end? Staying at 8.5V, el cheapo LED green when viewed from directly above, gradually turning from red to orange to yellow when seen from the side. So guess red LED has gradual fade out after green LED comes on; they don't both fit perfectly together under the little observation hole in the charger case so are not each entirely visible at the same time. But now finished charging on el cheapo, connected to MagicShine charger the 828 lights up 8.5V if I slide my finger across real slow. Disconnected from charger, display is dead again...


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

That's strange: I've never seen on my MJ-828 "automatic" activation of backlight upon charger's connection. It seems to me, voltmeter's electronic is damaged: maybe, by using that cheap charger. If there's heavy pulsations and strong voltage spikes coming out of that charger, it's possible that sensitive circuits related to the touch sensor are affected.

BTW, it's not uncommon for the Chinese chargers to have such voltage and current spikes: the policy of saving every cent often leads to missing components involved in voltage rectification and spike suppression. Once upon a time I've bought cheap Ni-Zn charger and found this:
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img845/2148/pcbup.jpg
(no filtering capacitors, inductors substituted with jumpers, etc)

When connected to the mains, it blocked TV reception in my home!  After putting required components in place, it works perfectly...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> That's strange: I've never seen on my MJ-828 "automatic" activation of backlight upon charger's connection. It seems to me, voltmeter's electronic is damaged: maybe, by using that cheap charger. If there's heavy pulsations and strong voltage spikes coming out of that charger, it's possible that sensitive circuits related to the touch sensor are affected.
> 
> BTW, it's not uncommon for the Chinese chargers to have such voltage and current spikes: the policy of saving every cent often leads to missing components involved in voltage rectification and spike suppression. Once upon a time I've bought cheap Ni-Zn charger and found this:
> (no filtering capacitors, inductors substituted with jumpers, etc)
> ...


Yeah Archie, I've been interchanging chargers on that MJ-828 for years. Not sure now which of my two Chinese cheapos down here had been part of that repetoir, they're molded a bit different at the plug though share the exact same label. One behaves just like MS charger, other is the outlaw which reached 8.5V on the MJ-828. But that battery pack has been very fickle ever since I got it two years ago. On more than on occassion, PCB must have jumped on its own, leaving me with dead lights upon connection. Backlight was always difficult to activate as well. Figured that was just because 828 was mounted so low on the frame, had to lie down beside it to read the display. Will attach the new battery pack further up and just hope that it behaves better than the old one. Should be receiving an updated charger as well; one that came with my XM-L2 MJ-816 this past autumn was larger and heavier than the previous generation, so assume the electronics had been improved upon.

Thanks again Archie!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

You're welcome! Hope your new battery & charger will be fine.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Sorry Cat, my mistake trying to insert the link. Came out inactive first time, edited in wrong link on second attempt but it's fixed now. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Buy 8.4V 6x18650 Rechargeable Waterproof Battery Set with Pouch For LED Bike Lights (Samsung 2800mah Cell Inside) , from for $31.75 only in Main Website. Worldwide Free Shipping!
> 
> Yeah, does sound too good to be true, because same [genuine] six cells loose would sell for a bit more. But had heard LM had a good reputation on its batteries and couldn't find any name brands in a six pack of that mAh elsewhere. Anyway because of the whole charging issue it doesn't look like such a great deal now, at least not for me.


Well, if you had a hobby charger the extra voltage required to reach full capacity wouldn't be an issue. None the less, even if you used a standard charger you would still have a very nice high capacity battery even if it couldn't reach a full charge. Providing of course it is using actual Samsung cells. I figure if you end up buying a battery with an actual capacity near 7000mAh ( for the listed price ) you win. If it's actually over 8000mAh you win the jackpot. 

Could be the Chinese are just cleaning house of the stock pile of older batteries they have laying around so perhaps these are indeed Samsung cells. If you really think it's worth a shot go ahead and roll the dice. You might very well end up a winner.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> You're welcome! Hope your new battery & charger will be fine.


Well the good news is that the P.O. just delivered the new MagicShine MJ-818 Bicycle Tail LED Bike Light 2011 version with improved MJ-828 LCD battery pack and charger and the battery and charger work fine. Tail light bit of a lemon though. LEDs function properly but bezel has the infamous rough operation and catching at points that has apparently plagued this design since inception. Was lucky on the first one I bought two years ago, the bezel on it has always rotated very freely, can spin it round and round with ease. This one not so much. Hope Brightstone Sports lets me exchange just the lamp and hold onto this battery.* Even freezing cold off the truck the touch display responds right away - 7.0V. Guess I'll allow it to warm to room temperature before charging.

*They did.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Yeah, does sound too good to be true, because same [genuine] six cells loose would sell for a bit more.(


Eight Samsung 2600s on FastTech are $29.48.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Tail light bit of a lemon though. LEDs function properly but bezel has the infamous rough operation and catching at points that has apparently plagued this design since inception. Was lucky on the first one I bought two years ago, the bezel on it has always rotated very freely, can spin it round and round with ease. This one not so much


That light uses magnets in the ring to trigger an internal switch for changing modes. What I've seen suggested is to ignore the ring, and just use an external magnet. Try one from a wired bike computer, fridge magnet, or a neodymium unit.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Ian_C said:


> Eight Samsung 2600s on FastTech are $29.48.
> 
> That light uses magnets in the ring to trigger an internal switch for changing modes. What I've seen suggested is to ignore the ring, and just use an external magnet. Try one from a wired bike computer, fridge magnet, or a neodymium unit.


Yeah Ian, the 2600s are certainly a much better deal than the 2800mAh ones, which are around 40% more expensive per pair and can't even reach their full voltage on most chargers. Can't find 2600mAh in a six-pack on FT though, would feel a lot more confident ordering from them than through LM. At least both companies offer expedited shipping for cheap on their batteries.

Do have spare spoke magnets but would be kinda of a PITA having to fish around with one, especially while wearing heavy gloves. Anyway, bought this package fully aware of its potential pitfalls and their remedies, this is my second go with it. Still have the first 818 on my cargo 'bent upstate, took the included MJ-828 down with me to the city and after two years it's still running strong, despite the wonky LED display. Figured at $55, this package was worth it for the battery pack and charger alone, was like getting the tail light tossed in for free. But my plan to take the light head apart and glue down the circuit board has so far been thwarted, can't manage to unscrew the diffusing lens in the center, tape won't stick. Anyway, if I can't take care of the problem myself, am confident Brightstone Sports will - They're like one of the best vendors on the face of the planet. But all that's the subject for an entirely different thread!

UPDATE: Brightstone Sports emailed me an RMA for the iffy light head; I get to hang on to the good battery pack and charger.


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## christoski (Jun 20, 2014)

*Hunk Lee batteries*

Hello everyone,

First off, holly giant never ending thread batman! I've been combing through the posts for hours and needless to say I'm overwhelmed!

I'm considering getting some lights for my mountain bike since the riding season is all too short, especially up here in the great white north! I'm thinking of getting a SolarStorm X2, but I'm having some trouble figuring out the differences between a few of the Hunk Lee batteries. Besides the capacity and battery brand can someone kindly illuminate me on the differences between these (pardon my noob-ness):

MagicShine LED Bike Light 7 4V Li ion Battery 5200mah by Samsung 26F 2S2PX | eBay

Samsung LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 5600mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light 28A 2S2P | eBay

A Panasonic 18650A 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2PX w PCM In | eBay

Panasonic LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 5800mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light NCR 2S2P | eBay

I'm ideally looking for something that would last me around 2-2.5 hours using max brightness about 75% of the time. Does anyone have suggestions for which of these (or others) would be the optimal choice? Lastly, would this be a good charger for any/all of the above? MagicShine Bike Light 7 4V Li ion Battery Charger 8 4V 1A Smart Auto Stop USB | eBay

Thanks!

Ps has anyone heard any updates on battery shipping times/options to Canada? I'm guessing I'll need to have it sent via boat due to the recent restrictions on Li-Ion?


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

My thought was two sets of Samsung 2600s and one Solarstorm case. That give you 10400 mAh with known quality batteries for under $40. Or add another $10 for a second case if you don't want to change the batteries out on the trail.


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## christoski (Jun 20, 2014)

christoski said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> First off, holly giant never ending thread batman! I've been combing through the posts for hours and needless to say I'm overwhelmed!
> 
> ...


Oh, I almost forgot one of the most important things! Would the above combinations be "safe" in the sense of over charging/discharging the batteries? It appears the batteries are "protected", but I wasn't sure if that was enough (i.e., do I need to watch the charge/discharge like a hawk to make sure they don't get damaged, or worse, explode?)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

christoski, Ian offers good advice regarding the Solar Storm case and 2600mAh cells. Look for unprotected flat tops, as the SS case includes a PCB. You needn't worry about delivery times from China on batteries, as they will be offered with two week expedited shipping for ~$5 per order. But Amazon and some other NA vendors are not that much more expensive and of course might ship even faster. Dunno about that hunk_lee charger, it is not MagicShine brand per se. You can get the genuine 1.8A Magicshine MJ-6012 Li-ion Battery Charger from Brightstone Sports or Action-LED through Amazon. Its LED will turn from red to green and will switch to reserve mode once the battery pack reaches 8.4V.

A couple interesting all-in-one deals there as well you might want to consider, if available as well in CA:

Amazon.com : Mudder® CREE XM-L L2 2-LED 1200LM 3-Mode Flashing 10-Level Brightness Adjustable Rechargeable Headlamp with Battery Pack & Charger Set for Outdoor Cycling, Hiking, Camping : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : SecurityIng Waterproof 1800 Lumens 4 Modes LED Bicycle Light Special Disign Long or Short Range Lighting Modes Super Bright Lighting Lamp Bicycle Headlight LED Headlamp Flashlight Torch with 8.4V Rechargeable Battery Pack & Charger : Spo

Don't have any experience with either of the above myself but if you are not going to operate them on High all the time you might just get enough run time out of them. Just remember, batteries tend to drain fast in the cold.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Hunk Lee's batteries are pretty well protected electronically, but not waterproof.
All the packs you show are good, it's basically a matter of spending more for a pack with more power (There are more subtle differences in discharge curve but you can scroll up in the threads for that)

Any Li-ion battery can explode on charging, although it's rare.
Get a charging bag or charge them in a cookie tin, in a metal sink or on a tile or concrete surface and don't leave the hours with them charging. 99.9% of the time that's overkill, but I have 3 friends who had batteries blow.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> christoski, Ian offers good advice regarding the Solar Storm case and 2600mAh cells. Look for unprotected flat tops, as the SS case includes a PCB.


I'd recommend use protected cells with SolarStorm box. Its "protection" is a joke, and is unable to actually protect the cells due to design flaw.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'd caution against buying a Solar Storm X2 as the majority of them have been junk (complete lack of heatsinking). 

-Garry


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## christoski (Jun 20, 2014)

Ian_C said:


> My thought was two sets of Samsung 2600s and one Solarstorm case. That give you 10400 mAh with known quality batteries for under $40. Or add another $10 for a second case if you don't want to change the batteries out on the trail.


May I ask where you're sourcing these at this price point? Hunk Lee is ~$19 CAD ($15 USD) per pair + shipping ($16/13, CAD/USD). Amazon.ca has similar pricing for anything reputable (e.g., samsung, panasonic) albeit cheaper shipping ($8 CAD). And so far I've only seen the SS case on Bandgood for $15 CAD. Sadly with the current exchange rates and additional shipping costs, things tend to be more expensive up here. 

Regarding using individual cells and a case rather then pre-soldered packs, in some earlier posts, people commented on concerns about unbalancing charges and the general annoyances of having to remove them from the case every time to charge. Also, there was mentions of problems due to poor contact from the springs and corrosion issues. All that said, that was my original plan but people seemed to like the soldered packs better. Now I'm not sure anymore.



andychrist said:


> christoski, Ian offers good advice regarding the Solar Storm case and 2600mAh cells. Look for unprotected flat tops, as the SS case includes a PCB. You needn't worry about delivery times from China on batteries, as they will be offered with two week expedited shipping for ~$5 per order. But Amazon and some other NA vendors are not that much more expensive and of course might ship even faster. Dunno about that hunk_lee charger, it is not MagicShine brand per se. You can get the genuine 1.8A Magicshine MJ-6012 Li-ion Battery Charger from Brightstone Sports or Action-LED through Amazon. Its LED will turn from red to green and will switch to reserve mode once the battery pack reaches 8.4V.
> 
> A couple interesting all-in-one deals there as well you might want to consider, if available as well in CA:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the rely. I think Amazon might actually be cheaper in my case (per above). The genuine chargers won't ship to Canada (selection on hobby/DIY electronics is rather limited from Amazon.ca), but it looks like ordering from Brightstone directly could work. However, if I'm going with individual cells, would it not be better to use a separate multi-bay charger, or are the advantages fairly negligible?



Ofroad'bent said:


> Any Li-ion battery can explode on charging, although it's rare.
> Get a charging bag or charge them in a cookie tin, in a metal sink or on a tile or concrete surface and don't leave the hours with them charging. 99.9% of the time that's overkill, but I have 3 friends who had batteries blow.


That actually seems like a lot of blown batteries. That or you have at least 300 batteries between you and your friends, and even that would only be 99% safe. Thanks for the reply. 



-Archie- said:


> I'd recommend use protected cells with SolarStorm box. Its "protection" is a joke, and is unable to actually protect the cells due to design flaw.


Good to know.


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## christoski (Jun 20, 2014)

Ian_C said:


> My thought was two sets of Samsung 2600s and one Solarstorm case. That give you 10400 mAh with known quality batteries for under $40. Or add another $10 for a second case if you don't want to change the batteries out on the trail.


"May I ask where you're sourcing these at this price point?"

...Just saw your previous post about getting them from FT, oops.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Anyone looking for cheap loose cells (unprotected) check out these Sanyo 2,600mAh's for $8 a pair at FastTech. Similar or possibly a hair better than the Samsung 2,600mAh's: $8.00 Authentic Sanyo UR18650ZY 2600mAh Rechargeable Li-Ion Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - minimum capacity 2500mAh / 3.7V at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Due higher voltage curve Sanyos are better if you want to maintain highest output in dual leds lights as long as possible toward the end. Samsung has real 2600 capacity so they should run a little bit longer with lower output at the end. All in all both are good cells.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

One more addition to *ledoman* comments: in my practice with 2600 mAh cells mentioned above, Samsung have significantly longer lifespan than Sanyo.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, did you mean runtime or lifetime? I'm not familiar with all English words.

I can also add that Samsungs 2600 (pink) are suitable up to 3A per cell while Sanyos can stand higher currents. Not that Samsung won't work, but it will have odd discharge curve. At least with the ones I've got chance to test.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Archie, did you mean runtime or lifetime? I'm not familiar with all English words.


I mean lifetime. Samsungs are performing strong for years; their capacity fades and internal resistance increases very slowly. Sanyo's death OTOH is typically very quick, with rapid loss of capacity and steep increase of impedance.

Can't say how many cycles exactly they survive, but overall impression is like above. I myself switched from Sanyo to Samsung because of that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Interesting. I've never gone that far. Anyway, for an average night cyclist any of those two should be good for 5 year usage given you treat them properly. If you use them once a week this would be 250 cycles in 5 years. I doubt anyone (or very few) is doing twice that much which would be 500 cycles. I agree aging and wrong storing would degrade capacity somewhat. Still not that much if you compare with laptop battery packs.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Anyone looking for cheap loose cells (unprotected) check out these Sanyo 2,600mAh's for $8 a pair at FastTech. Similar or possibly a hair better than the Samsung 2,600mAh's: $8.00 Authentic Sanyo UR18650ZY 2600mAh Rechargeable Li-Ion Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - minimum capacity 2500mAh / 3.7V at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
> 
> -Garry


Yep, and while there might be better batteries the Sanyo's are decent batteries. Four of those in a cell holder to power your typical 2 emitter lamp should yield pretty good run times. For years I ran my gloworm X2 on a 4-cell 5200mAh Bak battery ( 4 x 2600mAh cells ) and had no problems. If you want cheap and good, at $16 for four cells I would say that's a pretty good deal, especially if you are on a budget.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I feel like I'm either crazy or there was talk of a trustfire out there, maybe a 4 up, that came with decent (samsung?) Cells or something like that. Not sure if I just got a couple different products mixed up but I'm seeing if that is legitimate or not


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

These 2600mAh Samsungs are also ~$8/pr unprotected.

$7.86 Authentic Samsung ICR18650-26F 18650 3.7V 2600mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

manbeer said:


> I feel like I'm either crazy or there was talk of a trustfire out there, maybe a 4 up, that came with decent (samsung?) Cells or something like that. Not sure if I just got a couple different products mixed up but I'm seeing if that is legitimate or not


Maybe you are thinking of the six-packs I posted about from LightMalls claimed to be assembled from SamSungs.

Buy 8.4V 6x18650 Rechargeable Waterproof Battery Set For LED Bike Lights with Pouch (Samsung 2600mah Cell Inside) , from for $29.79 only in Main Website. Worldwide Free Shipping!

The ones with 2800mAh cells sold for less than the lowest price you'd find for three loose pairs, and those using the 2600mAh Samsungs came to only a bit more than buying loose. But LM only showed pictures of the packs in their nice rubber boots; who knows what you'd actually be getting. I was tempted but passed.

Coincidentally, I did purchase a "6600mAh" TrustFire through Amazon over a year ago and it still seems pretty good. Construction comparable to MagicShine, rubber boot inside a slightly padded, rubberized case, heavier duty cable than on those SolarStorm boxes (see below), water-proof connector. Can't say anything about its real capacity, is on my commuter so never had to run it over an hour or so and always recharge between use. Kinda get the impression though that the "TrustFire" Amazon is selling now might not be the genuine article - says "by Generic," and IIRC one I purchased read "by TrustFire."

Amazon.com : TrustFire 6400mAh 8.4v Rechargeable Battery Pack for Bicyle Light or Headlamp : Bike Headlights : Sports & Outdoors


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*High Cut-Off?*

So I've had this Amazon.com: MagicShine Improved 2011 MJ-828 4.4AH Li-ion Battery with LCD Capacity Display: Industrial & Scientific for a couple of years or so, the back-lit voltage read out that had been giving me tons of grief is at last working fine again. But battery shuts off at what it shows as 6.8V. Isn't that a little too high a threshold? Could it be due to the age of the cells, or that they are no longer correctly balanced? Or just a finicky PCB? A 5V cut-off might be shaving too close to the bone but I'd at least expect to be able to draw the thing down to 6V. Perhaps though the PCB has a separate and more accurate way of determining the cells' voltage than that of the voltmeter display?

New MJ-828 came with the MJ-818 [tail light] package I just repurchased, will have to see how far down that one will let itself go. Meanwhile, any insights would be most appreciated, thanks.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If I remember correctly I encountered a similar issue during my testing of the GearBest 3x light I reviewed when charging the stock battery pack. It turned out that the cells were out of balance (badly in my case) and the charge was stopping when the higher voltage cell had reached +/- 4.20v, but the measured DMM voltage of the pack would read low due to the lesser voltage cell affecting the overall total voltage. It could be something similar going on here as well. Can you open up the pack to measure individual voltages? Rebalancing them isn't too hard:










Or is it possible that you are measuring / seeing the voltage of the pack after the load has been removed (i.e. after cutoff) and not the voltage under load?

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks Garry. Yeah I suspect the cells are not balanced. The voltmeter is built in, reading doesn't change from when the lamp is running to disconnect & start of recharge. Guess I could take the pack apart but would be a PITA the way MagicShine built that case, not really supposed to be user serviceable. Even the screws are individually sealed. O-rings don't like to stay in place during re-assembly either, grrr.

BTW what _is_ a reasonable/standard cut-off volatage?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm not sure what 8.4v packs are usually set to cut-off at, but generally 4.2v drivers cut-off at 2.8v or 3.0v for single cells, so 5.6v to 6.0v for two in series seems right. The cut-off is under load too, so the cells would bounce back up a bit after cut-off.

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah that would make sense. Am seeing 6.8V cut-off under load, if the built-in voltmeter is reliable at all (and I've no reason to believe it is. This is MagicShine here.)

Thanks Garry.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You have a DMM to measure across the DC power connector to check the Magicshine's display?
-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> You have a DMM to measure across the DC power connector to check the Magicshine's display?
> -Garry


Nope. And it ain't worth buying one just for the MJ-828, especially not for use down here in the city. Might consider getting a DMM for my workspace upstate, once weather permits me to spend time up there again.

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Nope. And it ain't worth buying one just for the MJ-828, especially not for use down here in the city. Might consider getting a DMM for my workspace upstate, once weather permits me to spend time up there again.
> Thanks for the suggestion!


From memory I get about a 1/2 a volt difference between my battery's display and what my hobby charger shows. I don't know which is correct, but guess the charger is likely to be more accurate. You may also find a difference between the display and PCB's cutoff.

I'll check tonight and update with actual figures. I've got 2 of these batteries, both pretty old.

Edit

One battery shows 8.0 and the charger shows 8.4, while the figures for the other one are 7.6 on the battery's display and 7.8 on the charger. So not as large a difference as I remembered.

Tim


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PE..._SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=Panasonic+ncr18650

for anyone looking for loose 18650s, amazon has unbranded (seem to be confirmed as authentic) panasonic ncr18650b's (3400mah) on sale for 19.99 per set of 4 with free 2 day for prime . This is the best price I have seen if they are indeed genuine and the fact that they ship free 2 day makes them an even greater bargain. I ordered 2 sets of these and one of the labled version for 8 dollars more. Will see how they do.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

If the picture is correct, they're looking like Sanyo UR18650 standard color shrink-wrap (now owned by Panasonic, but anyway)...


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Sanyo battery combined by Panasonic. The logo display as Sanyo or Panasonic.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

*4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh*

Protected or unprotected? link to main(non-mobile) site, Amazon.com: 4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh: Electronics



manbeer said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PEMH9HG/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?qid=1428285485&sr=8-11&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=Panasonic+ncr18650
> 
> for anyone looking for loose 18650s, amazon has unbranded (seem to be confirmed as authentic) panasonic ncr18650b's (3400mah) on sale for 19.99 per set of 4 with free 2 day for prime . This is the best price I have seen if they are indeed genuine and the fact that they ship free 2 day makes them an even greater bargain. I ordered 2 sets of these and one of the labled version for 8 dollars more. Will see how they do.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> Amazon.com: 4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh: Electronics
> 
> for anyone looking for loose 18650s, amazon has unbranded (seem to be confirmed as authentic) panasonic ncr18650b's (3400mah) on sale for 19.99 per set of 4 with free 2 day for prime . This is the best price I have seen if they are indeed genuine and the fact that they ship free 2 day makes them an even greater bargain. I ordered 2 sets of these and one of the labled version for 8 dollars more. Will see how they do.


Yeah, they look like Sanyo's but are listing the Panasonic type #. So Sanyo has merged with Panasonic, didn't know that. Anyway, the reviews on Amazon are favorable. Can't beat the price. If you have a cell holder these are right up your alley.

@Patski; I think they are non-protected. The product description warns the user to supply a PCB when using the cells for multi-cell packs.

Could be that Panasonic is using up some of the old Sanyo materials along with their own batteries. Makes sense to me.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

If the aesthetics matter, they just dropped the price of the green, labled ones to 24.49 for 4. I paid 27.99 a couple days ago

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C26OWGS/ref=pd_aw_sim_e_3?refRID=1A7GH06JP14GJMZCMR2G

oddly enough, even though they seem to be a different seller they both link to the same place to buy a spot welder in the description and the descriptions are identical


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Glad that hunk Lee chimed in and confirmed that they are legitimate. Now if we can only find someone to take on the chore of making a decent 4 and 6 cell holder...I nominate hunk lee!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

manbeer said:


> Glad that hunk Lee chimed in and confirmed that they are legitimate. Now if we can only find someone to take on the chore of making a decent 4 and 6 cell holder...I nominate hunk lee!


I concur, just bought a 2cell from him, fast-ish shipping "considering."

Biggish ride with the 2cell on my helmet running my Gloworm X2, over an hour on high.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Since he has knowledge of batteries, presumably access to the gold mine of manufacturers in China, and listens to those on this forum, I feel like he could make out well coming up with some nice holders for those of us using loose cells...


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Looks like the red Sanyo-sonic cells that are on sale for 19.99 for a set of 4 are actually a NEWER version of the venerable ncr18650 and may even be slightly better. I urge anyone in the market to grab them while they can, the price is just over half of fastech's price and they come in 2 days. I will do a full charge/discharge on them in the next couple days and see how they stack up. Fwiw I have another set of normal green ncr18650s coming that I will test them back to back against

Wholesale Panasonic-Sanyo NCR18650BF ? 18650 Battery Bro - Trusted Wholesale Battery Supplier


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Bah- don't ship to Canada.



manbeer said:


> Looks like the red Sanyo-sonic cells that are on sale for 19.99 for a set of 4 are actually a NEWER version of the venerable ncr18650 and may even be slightly better. I urge anyone in the market to grab them while they can, the price is just over half of fastech's price and they come in 2 days. I will do a full charge/discharge on them in the next couple days and see how they stack up. Fwiw I have another set of normal green ncr18650s coming that I will test them back to back against
> 
> Wholesale Panasonic-Sanyo NCR18650BF ? 18650 Battery Bro - Trusted Wholesale Battery Supplier


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Bah- don't ship to Canada.


but I do! If you want me to send you a case of "salt water taffy" just pm me. I'm serious though


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Pretty impressed, I just did a full discharge to cutoff and recharge to test the capacity of one of my 3 year old 5200mah Gemini 4 cell packs (panasonic cells) and it still clocked in at 5065 mah according to my traxxas easy peak plus. This is after over 100 charge and discharge cycles and much abuse (stored at full charge, left in car in extreme temps, sometimes not being touched for months etc

Pretty good if you ask me!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, it's Panasonic overall. If you think what is going on with the cells in laptop battery packs, yours is still lightly used.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

True, I always forget about the fact that 18650's aren't specifically used for lights.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, I've teared down many used (left aside as unusable) laptop packs and some has still usable cells in it even after 10 years from production. Of course the capacity is much lower and the differences between cells are sometimes to big to use them in 2S2P packs, but some are just nice and still has up to 80-90% of capacity. Tipical in a 6 cells (3S2P) packs one pair has gone bad and the other two are still usable. I'm using iCharger 106B+ to test them and plot discharge curves so I can see how pairs of cells compares. It is very time consuming job and I'm doing it during winter only. That way I can find the good pairs or single cells which are much better than any cheapo chinese ones and they can still last for another few years.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

manbeer, im enjoying those cells, plan on ordering more as I can afford it, another set this weekend at least along with a couple little things. Gotta find a decent pair of panasonic protected in the states too for the fenix case so I can ride at night without my hydropak for the short stuff.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> manbeer, im enjoying those cells, plan on ordering more as I can afford it, another set this weekend at least along with a couple little things. Gotta find a decent pair of panasonic protected in the states too for the fenix case so I can ride at night without my hydropak for the short stuff.


glad to hear it, i bought 4 sets total which i really shouldn't have BUT i know that i will use them in the future and i will never find a better deal on a legitimate 3400mah cell at 5 bucks a piece shipped. I plan to do a capacity test over the weekend vs the regular ncr18650 which i have loaded up in another identical case, hopefully both pcb's are consistent.

So i got to thinking, i DO have these 6 cell gemini packs that i mentioned in a previous post. I got them at the same time as my 4 cell which still holds almost full capacity after 3 years. The 6 cells have about the same amount of use but the capacity seems dismal in comparison. So i got to thinking that these are out of balance and when i checked, they are reading fully charged at 8.4v, which would be right but they are the 4.35v version and the supplied chargers are 8.7v. Wondering about installing balancing leads but do you think if i do that and balance all the cells to the normal 4.2v, then top off with the provided 8.7v charger that i would stay somewhat in balance?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya if u install balance plugs, let the charge go till done (better to have at about half capacity first, gives charger more time to balance things out) then top off you should be perfectly fine, might bring considerable life back into the pack.

Balance charging for sealed packs seems to be something these companies aren't getting the point of. Any lithium based batteries unless perfectly matched and balanced prior to building the packs, is needed. That's why laptop batteries you find crap cells and good ones, not matched and not balance charged beyond assembly.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah, assuming that i got these the same time and used the same amount as the 4 cells which are perfect, both having panasonic cells, and both 6 cell packs exhibiting the same behavior, i can only come to the conclusion that its a balance issue. They were good for a while but after the first year or so capacity started dropping


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

The price wars are back! I've watched these drop 3 times in price in the past week. Last week I purchased a set for 28 dollars, then the red ones went on sale, now these dropped twice

17 shipped for 4 ncr18650b's

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NCR...UTF8&qid=1428967640&sr=8-1&keywords=ncr18650b


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Wow. Now Hunk_Lee needs to start buying his batteries from Amazon....



manbeer said:


> The price wars are back! 17 shipped for 4 ncr18650b's
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NCR18650B-18650-Battery-mAh-4pc/dp/B00C26OWGS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428967640&sr=8-1&keywords=ncr18650b]Amazon.com: Panasonic NCR18650B


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Seriously, can only assume that we are gonna see something new and improved from panasonic and those in the know are pushing them out for wholesale - ish pricing. Either way I'll grab a few more sets but I'd stay tuned. The companies probably don't really say much before releasing a newer battery so they don't diminish the value of products using their flagship cells from other companies. I'd imagine it wouldn't be good practice to say "hey, we're about to come out with 3600 mah cells or whatever when companies have big stock of packs containing the older ones they are trying to sell


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Someone from Pearland TX order some waterproof connector, we really don't know why take about one month to delivery it by USPS postmen. He give me a negative feedback and destroy my confidence.
I really want to say, it is not our default. We ship the items almost same day when we get payment, we can do noting after shipped. But we can reship or refund if someone can't get it in time.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Someone from Pearland TX order some waterproof connector, we really don't know why take about one month to delivery it by USPS postmen. He give me a negative feedback and destroy my confidence.
> I really want to say, it is not our default. We ship the items almost same day when we get payment, we can do noting after shipped. But we can reship or refund if someone can't get it in time.


Don't worry about it. Not everyone can be pleased all the time and it's hard dealing with postage overseas. Considering that, you have very good feedback and everyone speaks well of you, so I wouldn't let it get to you


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

manbeer said:


> The price wars are back! I've watched these drop 3 times in price in the past week. Last week I purchased a set for 28 dollars, then the red ones went on sale, now these dropped twice
> 
> 17 shipped for 4 ncr18650b's
> 
> Amazon.com: Panasonic NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh-4pc: Electronics


To bad Amazon doesn't ship anything to my country  Or is this to good to be true? $28 was just below normal price.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

........I think hes in a price war against the guy selling the real/new Panasonic cells for 19.99 for a set of 4. This price, Im debating on buying a set to see if they are as good as the red ones. BUt the red ones at $20 for 4 that say panasonic 3400mah are correct, tested and proven by manbeer and myself. Look new but only time will tell.

edit: screw it I bought a set, $3 cheaper than the red ones, and since they are "fullfilled by amazon" if they test poorly Ill just send them back get my money back. But if good I just nailed a set of panasonics DIRT CHEAP!

Ledoman, what country you in???? Me or manbeer would be willing to help you guys out that cant get amazon since we get free shipping to our homes (and arrive in 2 days)


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Don't want to publish it, but it's in EU. Take a look source of my pictures.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not going to lie, had to look it up on a map, barely remembered that country was there,lol. Is it difficult to get Li_ion cells shipped to you?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No, I can get them from China, but not from Amazon. :-( The other thing is EU customs, same rools implemented more or less strictly. We can discuss more in private.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I should have plenty of batteries for a while except 1 more set of protected for son to use with fenix case on his helmet. 2 sets of 4 the red Panasonics from amazon, 1 set of 4 the normal green Panasonics will be here Thursday, a pair of keep power Panasonics, and my pile of Chinese cells. China cells I just burned down to protection kicking in on the case going to recharge tomorrow see what the actual capacity is of them.

Balance charged all my good cells and ready for the weekend now . Holy crap good cells (and 20ga connectors at cases and light heads now) make a nice difference in output. Not huge but enough I noticed.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey what is another good (but not so dang expensive for 2 cells) pair of protected cells. My son won't need 3400mah cells for a yinding as our rides together are 30-45mins.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NCR...TF8&qid=1429122166&sr=8-1&keywords=ncr18650pf


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Hey what is another good (but not so dang expensive for 2 cells) pair of protected cells. My son won't need 3400mah cells for a yinding as our rides together are 30-45mins.


For the kids...ehhh, I might just go with a cheap Chinese 4-cell battery. Forget where I saw them but someone had a cheap battery with Samsung cells....maybe 20 some dollars.

If I had kids rather than get them a dedicated bike light ( if less than 12 yrs old ) I might just buy them some decent multi-mode torches/torch holder and couple those with some cheap 2600mAh Ultrafire cells ( $4-$5 each ) which always worked fairly well for me when I was using them. Anyway, that way they not only have a bike light but a torch for when off the bike. Doesn't hurt to kill two birds with one stone.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Xeccon has a 2 cell pack w 2200mah BAK cells for 18.95 or you can get it with the kick ass geinea 1 tail light right now for like 36 bucks as a set


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> ........I think hes in a price war against the guy selling the real/new Panasonic cells for 19.99 for a set of 4. This price, Im debating on buying a set to see if they are as good as the red ones. BUt the red ones at $20 for 4 that say panasonic 3400mah are correct, tested and proven by manbeer and myself. Look new but only time will tell.
> 
> edit: screw it I bought a set, $3 cheaper than the red ones, and since they are "fullfilled by amazon" if they test poorly Ill just send them back get my money back. But if good I just nailed a set of panasonics DIRT CHEAP!
> 
> Ledoman, what country you in???? Me or manbeer would be willing to help you guys out that cant get amazon since we get free shipping to our homes (and arrive in 2 days)


Let me know how those green batteries test out. I bought a set but have no good way to test it. Planning on using these batteries in the case that came with my mudder light but using them for the BT40s


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

manbeer said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NCR...TF8&qid=1429122166&sr=8-1&keywords=ncr18650pf


Those aren't protected but another decent deal for sure. If fenix case was protected it wouldn't matter then.

Cat: I have a set of ultrafires or whatever they are supposed to be Sanyo cells but they are total crap, turn my yinding on high and voltage drop is horrible. Think they are about good for running a single emitter flashlight lol, maybe.

Pwu: Ya ill do a run on them through my bc6 charger when they get here tomorrow. Just did it with my china cells and god they are half what is posted lol.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok I received the Green panasonic batteries today that manbeer linked. I tried putting them in the battery case that came with my mudder light and ran into a small issue. The green batteries came with a clear sticker that said "18650 3.7V/3400mAh" on it. When I put the cells in the case with the sticker, they were tight and barely fit in the case. But then what happened is that since they are so tight, they compresses the spring on the bottom of the case and would not pop up so when I put the cover on, they didn't make contact with the terminal. I had to take the cells back out and remove the sticker. Once the stickers were removed the cells fit much better.

Another question I have, is there any way I can easily tell if these cells might be fake? I got these on Amazon but the seller was "Urban Source" and fulfilled by Amazon. I also noticed today that the price went to $47.98 from Urban source but another seller "eBatteries Warehouse" is selling them for $27.50


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

They are legitimate, they do fit tight, had to sort of tap it around to seat them well. In the future I may put some silicone spray around it


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

manbeer said:


> They are legitimate, they do fit tight, had to sort of tap it around to seat them well. In the future I may put some silicone spray around it


Thanks! Good to know. Once I took those clear stickers off they fit pretty much perfectly. Enough room to slide up and down but not enough to move around side to side.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Holy crap can't even find the listing for the green ones at all anymore. Closest from urban source is 6 for $47.99.

The same place that lists the red cells also cells the green ones but for normal pricing for Panasonics. Thinking red ones are "OEM" spec, as in for laptop batteries, instead of the normal Panasonic loose cell look.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey guys, if your wanting Panasonic cells better grab them now.

Green ones (set of 4) are still $19.99 on prime, red have gone up to $25 . And yes they are the real ones, I own 2 sets of red and just ordered my second set of green ones.

Get them before they go back up to $30-40 a set of 4


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Green ones are now 20.99, pricing seems to be on the rise


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

lol I caught my last set at the perfect time lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Price is back up, ncr18650b is now 35, the bf or reds are 30


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Glad I got 2 sets of each!!! Keeppowers for protected pair hurt enough lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just picked up a set of these to try out last week. "3000mah" protected 18650s from eachine which are cheap on Amazon. Bought 2 to use in my Fenix case and tested them at 27xx which isn't rated capacity but not bad either. The only real issue is that the protection circuit doesn't play nice with high amp draw, pretty much 3 amps will trip it. Not bad for 14 bucks a pair if you need protected cells for a smallish light


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Found keeppower protected Sanyo cells on amazon prime for $17.50 a pair

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Q5...ower+18650&dpPl=1&dpID=41OgXDaX33L&ref=plSrch


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

So so sorry for asking this without ready all the thread and not doing any research yet...I just came here to ask If anyone know of a good light with a battery shaped to fit inside the steerer tube? I have a lefty fork. I might be shopping for a light soon and it would be cool if I can find something like that...sorry again

Forgot to mention: I'm also looking for the lightest and brightest!

Is it asking too much? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

battery for that purpose, doesnt exist. No demand for it. People want their setups off their bikes mostly except for night riding. Not to mention the risks involved in trying to keep the battery in place and not falling down through.

As for lightest and brightest, one of those things cant do both. With lights the heat management is the most important thing. The lighter the weight, the less heat the case can handle. Which means emitters cannot be driven as bright. More light equals more heat, so more light means more weight and size.

Now the best where get the most light for the size and weight is the Glowworm XS/gemini duo or their clone, the Yinding. Well those are the lights i know of that weigh the least versus their light output. For the battery packs there is no way to be a weight weenie about it. They weigh what they weigh. The less they weigh, the lower the capacity means the less run time possibly lower performance. but that weigh variation in in no way noticeable by anything but a scale or in your hands.

But this is the battery thread, go through the threads in this sub, about every light that exists and is commonly used iis covered in its own thread usually. But being a weight weenie about a light set up.....not one of those things you can be that way. If you want to night ride, you add a pound to your set up, no way around it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

duplicate post (stupid phone)


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks Tigris99. Yes I was asking too much about 'lightest and brightest'...lol, it makes sense that both things don't come together. As for keep the light on the bike I still believe I could have a very nice setup, with the battery hidden in the steerer nice wire routing, but still easy to take off if I want.

Reason why I'm so positive on this is because I have been able to create custom 3d printed parts...and I have ideas in mind to create such solution!

How about those Di2 batteries for seatpost or steerer...can they be adapted for lights? Anyone ever tried that with success? (I know...I need to do research...just hard to find time)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Di batteries haven't been out long enough and for most its far too expensive to have anyway, much less simply experiment with a battery.

But stuffing a battery in a steerer tube takes alot more than you think, need to seriously do research into lights and their batteries before attempting it.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Di batteries haven't been out long enough and for most its far too expensive to have anyway, much less simply experiment with a battery.
> 
> But stuffing a battery in a steerer tube takes alot more than you think, need to seriously do research into lights and their batteries before attempting it.


Or, alternative batteries on the same shape?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nothing out there because truly what's the point, just buy a light that contains the batteries as well if your worried about hiding the batteries.

cool ideas, ya, but not something that will be practical just due to run time alone. And no way of putting a battery in a steerer tube in 99% of bikes out there, the star nut is in the way.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Nothing out there because truly what's the point, just buy a light that contains the batteries as well if your worried about hiding the batteries.
> 
> cool ideas, ya, but not something that will be practical just due to run time alone. And no way of putting a battery in a steerer tube in 99% of bikes out there, the star nut is in the way.


Yeah...it would be great for lefty's since the starnut is quite useless. The upper lefty clamp holds everything together.
I'll eventually start doing some research on that and see if I can find something reasonable.

Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

What is the size of the steerer tube?









****


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

There have been a few guys on the DIY forum put the super caps and related circuitry for dynamo lights in the steer tube.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

scar said:


> What is the size of the steerer tube?
> 
> View attachment 991646
> 
> ...


230mm length, 24.4mm ID on top, 22.5mm ID Tapering half way to bottom.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

andrepsz said:


> 230mm length, 24.4mm ID on top, 22.5mm ID Tapering half way to bottom.


yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Thanks scar....its a cheap battery:
LiFePO4 18650 Battery: 6.4V 1200mAh (Long, 7.2Wh, 4.2Arate ) with PCB & Polyswitch

now I need to research connection types and voltage compatibility with the lights out there.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

How about this Li-ion - Li-Ion 18650 Battery: 7.4V 2600 mah (19.24 Wh, 2x18650) Battery Stick with PCB / 4" wire

•••••


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

scar said:


> How about this Li-ion - Li-Ion 18650 Battery: 7.4V 2600 mah (19.24 Wh, 2x18650) Battery Stick with PCB / 4" wire
> 
> •••••


even better! more more!

I'm trying to find how does that compare to a standard light battery....or Di2 battery for charging cycle and longevity


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

I have put super caps and related circuitry for my DIY dynamo lights in the steerer tube. The main thing is stopping it from bouncing up & down or wobling about. Easy with the light weight of electroncis, a little harder with the extra weigtht of batteries, but should still be easy enough, esp if you have access to a 3D printer.

2 x 18650 batteries will fit in your steerer - ie what scar linked to. 4 x 18650 won't, as you are not some sort of freakish giant.

Do you have a carbon steerer ? If not, replace the star nut with something like this so you can run the cable up through the cap.








The alternative is running the cable back out through the hole at the bottom of the steerer. Speaking of which you will also want to check that your steerer has a hole at the bottom that is big enough that you can get the battery out if required.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

find_bruce said:


> I have put super caps and related circuitry for my DIY dynamo lights in the steerer tube. The main thing is stopping it from bouncing up & down or wobling about. Easy with the light weight of electroncis, a little harder with the extra weigtht of batteries, but should still be easy enough, esp if you have access to a 3D printer.
> 
> 2 x 18650 batteries will fit in your steerer - ie what scar linked to. 4 x 18650 won't, as you are not some sort of freakish giant.
> 
> ...


Excellent tip for everyone out there! pretty cool!

I don't use star nut at all. I use a home made long threaded rod with two 1 1/8 cap on both ends and a nut to pre load everything together, tight everything up, remove the rod...and that's it.

How about just one Li-Ion 18650 Battery: 7.4V 2.6Ah, do you think that would be enough to feed the light for a decent time?

Yes, I have a carbon exp prototype Lefty steerer.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Depends on what light. The battery is 2.6Ah, which means 2600mA provided for 1 hr. But that doesn't count voltage drop along the way. So ya you'll get 1 hr run time but light will slowly start dimming at half way through and at 45-50mins ull be really low on power, low on light.

If you use a light that pull 1.5 amps for instance, then run time and maintained output will be increased but you loose total amount of light to start with.

Its a balance of what you need for light and run time. Can't believe there isn't li-ion cells that are a bit bigger than 18650 that would work better for this project.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Depends on what light. The battery is 2.6Ah, which means 2600mA provided for 1 hr. But that doesn't count voltage drop along the way. So ya you'll get 1 hr run time but light will slowly start dimming at half way through and at 45-50mins ull be really low on power, low on light.
> 
> If you use a light that pull 1.5 amps for instance, then run time and maintained output will be increased but you loose total amount of light to start with.
> 
> Its a balance of what you need for light and run time. Can't believe there isn't li-ion cells that are a bit bigger than 18650 that would work better for this project.


Thanks a lot! so 2x of those would be ideal! thanks again


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

andrepsz said:


> even better! more more!
> 
> I'm trying to find how does that compare to a standard light battery....or Di2 battery for charging cycle and longevity


I know nothing about Di2, but a quick google suggests the battery is 7.4v 500 mah.

I am not going to comment on your steerer set up as that is way outside any knowledge I have. Suffice to say you should have no difficulties getting the battery in and out.

With only 2 cells, which is all you can fit in the steerer, you are always going to be limited for capacity. 2600mah is a decent enough battery for 2s1p & probably better than the cheapest 4 cell (2s2p) batteries around. If you want more capacity you could get as high as 3400 mah using panasonic cells, but you would need to assemble it yourself or ask someone like Hunk Lee if he would assemble this battery so the cells are arranged end to end not side by side.

Do you have enough battery capacity, is an eternal question and the answer is, it depends. As Tigris says how long do you want it to run for and at what power do you want your lights ?

2 may well be great, but where are you going to stick the second one ?

Some people extend their run time by running the light on medium or low when going uphill & only use high for downhill. Another way to think about it is figure out how long you want to ride for, add a bit for contingencies (getting lost, enjoying yourself etc) & then run the light at whatever setting will give you than time.

While I think of it, you will also need to waterproof the battery. Plasti dip or self fusing silicone tape are the easiest options.

Tigris there are bigger Li-ion batteries - 26650, ~4500 mah, but they are ~26mm in diameter x ~65mm long. In reality like 18650 batteries they tend to be a bit bigger in each dimension. They are too wide to fit in a steel or alloy steerer. My WAG is it won't fit carbon either but andrepsz could measure the ID of his steerer to see - it would need to be at lease 26.2mm in dia.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

find_bruce said:


> I know nothing about Di2, but a quick google suggests the battery is 7.4v 500 mah.
> 
> I am not going to comment on your steerer set up as that is way outside any knowledge I have. Suffice to say you should have no difficulties getting the battery in and out.
> 
> ...


My current steerer is 230mm length, 24.4mm ID on top, 22.5mm ID Tapering half way to bottom, but I have a carbon steerer in the mail coming to me soon!

Thanks find_bruce, I'm having a hack of class on batteries here! Never spent time to understand this before. 
That Panasonic cell is nice but don't fit on my project, unless I change my mind and put outside somewhere...but I still want to keep things hidden and cool looking.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

looking for a 6 cell pack to power a BT40s on extended rides and for possible use of a BT70 if I decide to buy one. Anyways I was looking at the Gearbest pack but it seems none of them are brand name cells. MTBrevolution only carries packs with square profile plugs but they do offer an adapter and come with a case. Then there is this hunk Lee pack but with no case. Magicshine LED Bike Light Battery LI ION 7 4V 9000mAh BY Samsung 30A Waterproof | eBay

So my question is will the MTBrevolution packs have any voltage losses due to the adapter? Or should I just go with the hunk Lee pack? I would prefer to have a case for extra protection even though the 6 cell pack will go in a saddle bag with an extension cable. Any 6 cell cases available? What would you do?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Swissam said:


> Any 6 cell cases available? What would you do?


http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...terproof-bicycle-battery-packs-gb-982688.html


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Swissam said:


> So my question is will the MTBrevolution packs have any voltage losses due to the adapter?


The adaptor cable is 30cm long with 5.5x2.1DC pins. There shouldn't be any measurable losses using the adaptor cable. You can still use the square profile plug with your light if you dont want to use the adaptor cable.

We have some Panasonic 10200mAh soft neoprene packs heading to Colorado. We will be able to ship from there in 2 to 3 days time. Another couple of days to you if you're in continental US.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

We also haven't the plastic shell, it need design and mold in factory and have MOQ requirements. But our PVC tube and other package material can prevent water come into the inside of battery pack.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I believe he's Swiss 



mtbRevolution said:


> The adaptor cable is 30cm long with 5.5x2.1DC pins. There shouldn't be any measurable losses using the adaptor cable. You can still use the square profile plug with your light if you dont want to use the adaptor cable.
> 
> We have some Panasonic 10200mAh soft neoprene packs heading to Colorado. We will be able to ship from there in 2 to 3 days time. Another couple of days to you if you're in continental US.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes I would need to add the PCM doesn't have to be neccessary balancing one. Anyway I would go with the higher current ones as they have less resistance and are more apropriate for the BT70 type of lights. 
Hunk Lee has some - HERE. Take a look detailed description of each where you can see *Maximal continuous Discharging current*. Be aware of *Over charge detection voltage*, some are for 4.30V cells - like this.


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## HunkLee (Nov 6, 2013)

Who can tell me why you don't buy battery from us now?
Hunk_Lee.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

HunkLee said:


> Who can tell me why you don't buy battery from us now?
> Hunk_Lee.


I can't answer for others, only my own opinion...The major issue is the standard connector you use. While it does work with the Magicshine type connectors used on most Chinese made bike lights it is not as good as the original Magicshine type connector ( with the protective rubber sleeve ). The one you provide has no protective sleeve and is not as tight a fit with the standard MS male connector. Most other bike battery sources use the original Magicshine type connector ( or one that works better ).

Another minor issue is that when a person buys a battery sometimes they have no battery pouch in which to mount it to their bicycle. Your website does not provide ( or sell ) the battery pouch. That means the buyer of your battery will have to find an outside source for a battery pouch so they can mount the battery to their bike.

Otherwise I see no reason not to buy a Hunk Lee battery. People who already have a battery pouch can save a little money if they buy from you. You also take special orders so that is a big plus. You also can provide a Solarstorm type connector so people with those lamps have a very good battery source.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

MK96 said:


> I believe he's Swiss


I'm Swiss American buddy! Hence "swiss" "am". Which means I live and work in Switzerland but still pay U.S taxes. Only U.S and Zimbabwe taxes it's citizens abroad. But that's another topic for the WTF thread. Lol
Anyways I didn't know both vendors were members here, that's pretty cool actually. As I mentioned this 6 cell pack will go in a saddle bag so it will be more prone to splashing and rock strikes. Best to get a hard case me thinks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mtbRevolution said:


> ...We have some Panasonic 10200mAh soft neoprene packs heading to Colorado. We will be able to ship from there in 2 to 3 days time. Another couple of days to you if you're in continental US.


That's good to know. With the more powerful lamps more people are going to be using 6-cell battery packs.

Just to let you know I expect to receive the Nitefighter BT70 within a couple days. I'll be testing it with the Xeccon 6-cell ( hard shell ) battery you gave me a year or so ago. ( 6600mah ? ) I'll be posting up how it all works in the thread already started on the BT70.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Y


Cat-man-do said:


> I can't answer for others, only my own opinion...The major issue is the standard connector you use. While it does work with the Magicshine type connectors used on most Chinese made bike lights it is not as good as the original Magicshine type connector ( with the protective rubber sleeve ). The one you provide has no protective sleeve and is not as tight a fit with the standard MS male connector. Most other bike battery sources use the original Magicshine type connector ( or one that works better ).
> 
> Another minor issue is that when a person buys a battery sometimes they have no battery pouch in which to mount it to their bicycle. Your website does not provide ( or sell ) the battery pouch. That means the buyer of your battery will have to find an outside source for a battery pouch so they can mount the battery to their bike.
> 
> Otherwise I see no reason not to buy a Hunk Lee battery. People who already have a battery pouch can save a little money if they buy from you. You also take special orders so that is a big plus. You also can provide a Solarstorm type connector so people with those lamps have a very good battery source.


+1. 
I have two Hunk Lee 4 cell packs which works great but I can't fit them in any of my 4 cell cases. So it goes in the back pack and is used for my helmet light. Because of this (packs not fitting in other cases) I would rather buy a pack that comes with a case already. And since most cases have a short attachment band they do not fit on modern carbon bikes that have larger top tubes. Even if they did fit I might not want a pack attached directly to the frame beacuse of wear marks and scratches (I paid dearly for that carbon frame and I want to keep it looking nice). This is why I'm putting the 6 cell in a saddle bag.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

HunkLee said:


> Who can tell me why you don't buy battery from us now?
> Hunk_Lee.


also can not speak for others but when reading here in the forums it is possible to get a feeling what are the problems guys have to struggle with!
Additionally i use several of your batteries already - so I can speak from my Point of view:

- wrong battery connector (not waterproof to magicshine style connector) :eekster:
- the connector has the same dimensions - thus can be plugged togehter with the magicshine lights *but it is not waterproof.*
- so much People here have *already asked *about the correct connector - but still the wrong one is equipped!
- so everyone without soldering skills can not use your packs due to the wrong connector (and the other guys here have additional work to make it fit!)
- no battery pouch available from you (as Catmando said) is another minor drawback! At least for 2s2p and 2s3p packs you can list useable packs for biking!

+ very responsive (as we see here in the Forums) and also per email!
+ wants to help - but doesnt reach the Goal.
(example: asked for a Extension cable for his threaded connector and this one was listed: DC5 5 2 1 Male to Female Extension Cable for Bike Light Connection L 100cm | eBay Which does not suit the threaded connector nor the magicshine in therms of waterproofing! :madman:
+ makes great battery packs with good cells at normal Prices!

*what to do now hunk_lee:*
1. equip your packs with magicshine compatible waterproof plugs







1a. or at least give us the possibility to order with different connector
- your Standard threaded connector
- real magicshine type connector (as pictured above)
- another type.....

2. list a real (waterproof) Extension cable for your types of connectors!
- for your threaded style connector







- for the "new" magicshine style connector







- any other type needed? .......

3. maybe list battery pouches as well (soft pouches which did not scratch the Frame!!)

ok, hope that helps to improove your good Service hunk lee!
cheers


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

ledoman said:


> Yes I would need to add the PCM doesn't have to be neccessary balancing one. Anyway I would go with the higher current ones as they have less resistance and are more apropriate for the BT70 type of lights.
> Hunk Lee has some - HERE. Take a look detailed description of each where you can see *Maximal continuous Discharging current*. Be aware of *Over charge detection voltage*, some are for 4.30V cells - like this.


I have two little kids, a job, and a wife...in that order,lol. 
I used to be a DIY guy but these days,


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

mtbRevolution said:


> The adaptor cable is 30cm long with 5.5x2.1DC pins. There shouldn't be any measurable losses using the adaptor cable. You can still use the square profile plug with your light if you dont want to use the adaptor cable.
> 
> We have some Panasonic 10200mAh soft neoprene packs heading to Colorado. We will be able to ship from there in 2 to 3 days time. Another couple of days to you if you're in continental US.


Just wondering why your 6 cell 10,200maH packs are for AUS only and not the E.U or U.S?
Also this pack Xeccon Samsung 8.4V 7800mAh Waterproof Li-ion Hard Shell Battery says it comes in a soft shell case but is pictured with a hard shell. But appears to have a soft shell attachment case?


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> That's good to know. With the more powerful lamps more people are going to be using 6-cell battery packs.
> 
> Just to let you know I expect to receive the Nitefighter BT70 within a couple days. I'll be testing it with the Xeccon 6-cell ( hard shell ) battery you gave me a year or so ago. ( 6600mah ? ) I'll be posting up how it all works in the thread already started on the BT70.


Eagerly awaiting this review.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

OK, I get it now 



Swissam said:


> I'm Swiss American buddy! Hence "swiss" "am". Which means I live and work in Switzerland but still pay U.S taxes. Only U.S and Zimbabwe taxes it's citizens abroad. But that's another topic for the WTF thread. Lol
> Anyways I didn't know both vendors were members here, that's pretty cool actually. As I mentioned this 6 cell pack will go in a saddle bag so it will be more prone to splashing and rock strikes. Best to get a hard case me thinks.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

mtbRevolution said:


> We have some Panasonic 10200mAh soft neoprene packs heading to Colorado. We will be able to ship from there in 2 to 3 days time. Another couple of days to you if you're in continental US.


Do you also ship this batteries to EU customers? :skep:


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

I have a HunkLee 2 Cell that works great with my Gloworm XS, no connector issues, lasts over an hour on mixed intensity. Arrived in Sacramento in around 9 days.

I had a 2cell MS pack from Action that dissipated quickly but has a great case, stretchy velcro strap that will even attach to the back of my helmet.

If Mr. Hunk could start selling these packs in 2/4/6 cell sizes he would clean up.



Cat-man-do said:


> I can't answer for others, only my own opinion...The major issue is the standard connector you use. While it does work with the Magicshine type connectors used on most Chinese made bike lights it is not as good as the original Magicshine type connector ( with the protective rubber sleeve ). The one you provide has no protective sleeve and is not as tight a fit with the standard MS male connector. Most other bike battery sources use the original Magicshine type connector ( or one that works better ).
> 
> Another minor issue is that when a person buys a battery sometimes they have no battery pouch in which to mount it to their bicycle. Your website does not provide ( or sell ) the battery pouch. That means the buyer of your battery will have to find an outside source for a battery pouch so they can mount the battery to their bike.





HunkLee said:


> Who can tell me why you don't buy battery from us now?
> Hunk_Lee.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

patski said:


> *I have a HunkLee 2 Cell that works great with my Gloworm XS, no connector issues, lasts over an hour on mixed intensity. Arrived in Sacramento in around 9 days.*
> 
> I had a 2cell MS pack from Action that dissipated quickly but has a great case, stretchy velcro strap that will even attach to the back of my helmet.
> 
> If Mr. Hunk could start selling these packs in 2/4/6 cell sizes he would clean up.


I have the Hunk Lee two cell as well. For comparison I just now tried the connector with a cheap Chinese D/X lamp, a Nitefighter BT40S and a Gloworm X2. The D/X connector barely held. Both the BT40S and the X2 were a little better but about the same...stays put but a good tug and it easily comes apart without problem....As long as you don't get the wires caught on a bush it should be fine. Still, I'm not comfortable with the connector plugs coming apart that easily. ( I sometimes ride through some tight areas with high grass and thorn bush....I have the scratches on my arms and legs to prove it. ).


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

HunkLee said:


> Who can tell me why you don't buy battery from us now?
> Hunk_Lee.


I have bought dozens of excellent batteries from you. Only issue is that the buyer needs to waterproof them. I think you would have a huge market if you could sell 2-cell and 4-cell packs with a silicone jacket as a few others do, like the ActionLED one here:
MJ-6008 2200mAh Waterproof Battery - Action-LED-Lights


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> I have the Hunk Lee two cell as well. For comparison I just now tried the connector with a cheap Chinese D/X lamp, a Nitefighter BT40S and a Gloworm X2. The D/X connector barely held. Both the BT40S and the X2 were about the same...stays put but a good tug and it easily comes apart without problem....As long as you don't get the wires caught on a bush it should be fine. Still, I'm not comfortable with the connector plugs coming apart that easily. ( I sometimes ride through some tight areas with high grass and thorn bush....I have the scratches on my arms and legs to prove it. ).


You could improve it a lot with a sleeve of heat-shrink tubing.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> You could improve it a lot with a sleeve of heat-shrink tubing.


Over the connector?


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I have a 6 cell hunk Lee battery that I use for long rides and races, powering a gloworm x2 helmet lamp. I just attached a normal magicshine extension cord to the battery and secured it with a couple of wraps of electrical tape. It's worked fine that way for bunches of mtb rides for over a year now. Shrink wrap would have been less ghetto, but I didn't have any handy. I still use hardshell magicshine 4 cells for bar lights because the little rubber band mount system on those works great for mounting the battery across my bars in front of the stem.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

patski said:


> Over the connector?


Yes, plug both parts together, and use a shorter end over the male end, with more heat shrink tubing over the female end..


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Yes, plug both parts together, and use a shorter end over the male end, with more heat shrink tubing over the female end..


I'm not sure I understand the "heat shrinking" of the connectors. If you use heat shrink tubing on the connectors how do you get them apart?

I think if I had a larger Hunk Lee battery and wanted the MS type connectors I would just go ahead and cut into the battery heat shrinking, find the place where the wire is connected , desolder and then just solder in a section of MS wire/connector...OR...option two, just splice in the MS connector to the wire already there. Still, I'd rather have the battery come as wanted.

Of course if you are into temporary fixes you can just use some electrical tape to keep both connectors together but that would get old real quick.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm not sure I understand the "heat shrinking" of the connectors. If you use heat shrink tubing on the connectors how do you get them apart?
> 
> I think if I had a larger Hunk Lee battery and wanted the MS type connectors I would just go ahead and cut into the battery heat shrinking, find the place where the wire is connected , desolder and then just solder in a section of MS wire/connector...OR...option two, just splice in the MS connector to the wire already there. Still, I'd rather have the battery come as wanted.
> 
> Of course if you are into temporary fixes you can just use some electrical tape to keep both connectors together but that would get old real quick.


I'm talking about non-adhesive heat shrink tubing. If you extend the tube over the knurled end of the female part and only the smooth part of the male connector and then shrink it, you get a nice water-resistant seal that can pull apart with a "pop".
Sorry, crazy busy, no time for a How To pic series, but maybe later.


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## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Best idea would be to get an extension cable, cut it to lengths you want and solder the red and black wires to the +/- points of the lighthead and battery. Clean, simple and waterproof.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I'm talking about non-adhesive heat shrink tubing. If you extend the tube over the knurled end of the female part and only the smooth part of the male connector and then shrink it, you get a nice water-resistant seal that can pull apart with a "pop".
> Sorry, crazy busy, no time for a How To pic series, but maybe later.


I've got some good size heat shrink tubing home, I'll give it a try when I get home. What I don't have however is a small controlled heat source which will make things a lot harder.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

A lighter lol. Your dont have a lighter for starting a grill???


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

i shrink all of my cables and plugs with a lighter! :yikes:
only battery packs are shrinked with a heat gun! :eekster:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I have a heat gun, I use it for pack shrink only.

I wish I could find a good shrink sleeve for using paired silicone wire (think how its done in RC, add outer sleeve). Deans connectors are the ultimate in low resistance and really water proof connector between light head and battery is a myth. Dont need it. Just need a secure connector that wont come apart.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> A lighter lol. Your dont have a lighter for starting a grill???


Yeah I have a cheap lighter for emergency power outages. I have candles too so the candle should work and leave my hands free to handle the item. Now to find my shrink tubing...


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I have a heat gun but also a small butane torch. The torch is easier for heat shrink on tubing. Get heat shrink tube just a bit bigger than the wide end of the connection.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is an old thread, but many might be subscribed. Just to inform you about new battery packs.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ck-kaidomain-com-reasonable-price-995303.html


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thank you ledoman for this info!
It is great to sum the new Infos here in this thread - but discuss in the speacial threads!
Nice pack kaidomain is offering here..... are they doing this upon your initiative?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes somewhat. They have done a batch for special customer and I've urged them to make it wide avalaible. They listen to me and used 20AWG cables and 6A protection module, so even higher powered lights should work fine. 
Also 6 and 8 cells version are in the production.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Gearbest has them listed now, working on stocking them (if they don't already have some in stock).


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

if you mean this Pack: 8.4V 6800mAh 4 x NCR18650B Rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack-22.37 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

on the Pictures there is only a 22AWG cable attached! :eekster:
(thus in the discription they write 20AWG!) :skep:

Edit: but the Price is amazing!! :thumbsup: :rockon:


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

FMA LiIon Battery Pack 26650 2S1P 7 4V 4500mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light HT | eBay

My current battery pack is an 8.4v pack. I see that this pack is 7.4v. I am looking for a replacement pack for my Solar Storm headlight. Is this compatible? Any adverse effect with the voltage difference?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

They are the same regarding voltages. 8.4V is max. voltage and 7.4V is nominal voltage (avereage) to use in caclulations. When coming Li-ions into questions only cells in series counts. Vast majority bicyce packs is 2S.


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Thanks


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Cat, can you hit this link to Hunk Lee battery and scroll down and see if you think the second connector will work w/ DiNotte. It's hard to tell.

Yes, the Gearbest battery is a deal it seems like at 22 bucks but are we really getting that battery as described or something else, a fake or really a 2 cell w/ 2 fake cells, etc.

Thx

MB

Samsung LiIon Battery Pack 7 4V 5600mAh for MagicShine LED Bike Light 28A 2S2P | eBay


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

FYI, I'm just doing preview of the 2S2P KD battery pack with Panasonic NCR18650B cells. Currently working on pictures....


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> FYI, I'm just doing preview of the 2S2P KD battery pack with Panasonic NCR18650B cells. Currently working on pictures....


Can't wait to hear.

BTW, this HLee flat pack looks handy for a Jersey pocket, any idea what the second lead is for? Seems a bit dangerous. Protected Li ion Battery 7 4V 6200mAh by Panasonic 18650 Cell 2S2PB w PCM bms In | eBay


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

He does some weird stuff with his batteries and still can't get the connectors right for what is needed for bike lights.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Yes - i can confirm this! 
I had several attemts to get him to the right connector, over several orders, mails, Pictures and so on....
.... but he still did not manage to get the right waterproof connector on his packs or at least as an Option in his connector list!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Since Kaidomain has now really good and (weather) sealed 2S2P pack with right connector, there is no need to "playing games" with HL. There might be same or similar pack avalaible from GB, too.

Here is the link to the thread I'm working on -> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ck-kaidomain-com-reasonable-price-995303.html


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Anyone tried using Sub C batteries with bike lights? if so, how big of mAh they can go?

Is something like this could work?
Panasonic Battery Sub C 1 2V 3000mAh Soldering Lug Z Shape Aku Battery | eBay

I'm considering stacking them up inside the Steerer tube of my bike, but I would need to figure it out how the create the connections.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. Let stay for a moment here, regardless there is new battery thread. I should post it here.

Yes I think it is possible to use those cells stacked, but there are few things to tell/ask.

1. If the chemistry (don't want Li-Ion) is of main concern then good Ni-Mh can be used
2. Energy wise Li-Ion are much better. For example same 3000mAh Li-Ion cell has 3.7V nominal and weigts 45gr while this Ni-Mh has 1.2V and weights 58gr. So the ratio is higher than 3/1.
3. You would need to stack from 3 to 6 Ni-Mh cells (depends on light and driver) which would be long from 135 to 270mm while Li-ion would be from 70-140mm. 
4. To stack them I would use capton tape to isolate wiring and nickel or copper stripes and solder to the tabs.

Hope it helps.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well since its been brought up: 26650 cells, 5000mah. Enough said


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah, but his goal was "I'm considering stacking them up inside the Steerer tube of my bike" so the diameter is in question (and length also). Of course personaly I wouldn't put any batteries anywhere into the bike.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Me neither. I'd have to double check my measurements but I believe 2 stacked 26650 will fit in steel steerers. 

But if bike is used during cold weather, doesn't matter the cell chemistry, not going to work well. 

To many issues just makes it a bad idea unless you live in a warm climate and want to leave the batteries there permanently. I hate the idea, but it may work for him.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. Since we already about New Year I would suggest to start using new thread from now on.

Happy and Safe New Battery Year!

*PLEASE START USING NEW BATTERY THREAD** ->

**http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/battery-thread-2016-beyond-997165.html*​


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