# Sram Eagle AXS is finally here.



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-wireless-eagle-axs-drivetrain-explained.html

Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

alexbn921 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-wireless-eagle-axs-drivetrain-explained.html
> 
> Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.


I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-wireless-eagle-axs-drivetrain-explained.html
> 
> Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.


You can 
https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-XX1-Eagle-AXS-Essential-Kit-1x12

All kits
https://r2-bike.com/SRAM_10


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

OneTrustMan said:


> You can
> https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-XX1-Eagle-AXS-Essential-Kit-1x12
> 
> All kits
> https://r2-bike.com/SRAM_10


Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!

Not in the USA.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's _great_. Especially if it has couplers.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> Sorry, we can't ship this item to your country!
> 
> Not in the USA.


#NewWorldProblems


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Darth Lefty said:


> It seems to me like Ultegra DI2 has been a lot more popular than XT. I'm not sure if that's true, just my impression. I think the same will go for etap and AXS. But Alex Nutt posted this on the MTB Tandems facebook group, and it made me stop and think about that. For a MTB tandem it's _great_. Especially if it has couplers.


The reason is that XT 11 speeds never got the effective ratios of sram and they have been late on 12speeds. For road use the cassette ranges and front derailuer usage do not seperate sram and shimano as much.

The best thing about wireless is the much cleaner set-up for both dropper and shifting. The long term response will be based on reliability/durability.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

It looks great and would be fantastic on a new build. It would be nice though if they had a package that also included a Quarq PM, as having to buy that on top makes for a really expensive groupset.

Hopefully it won't be long before the shifter and derailleur are available separately.


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

The price is nuts


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

David R said:


> Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.


I can hammer through regular eagle as quick as my finger will work the trigger... I imagine this is no different. From what I hear from a local tester it's pretty sick!


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Dale-Calgary said:


> The price is nuts


Finally SRAM has a shifting system to match the price of their cassettes!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Shifting threw the whole cassette or just a couple steps with 1 push is programmable.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

RS VR6 said:


> Lol...the price for the AXS shifter, derailleur and charger is almost the same at the eTap for road bikes. You get an extra shifter and front derailleur for less!


That's interesting, it's usually the other way around.


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

Okay I thought it was $1900 for just the derailleur and shifter but it's for the entire setup. 

Now I'm interested to add it to my x01.


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## Skyking1231 (May 1, 2018)

So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn’t matter what crankset you have. Is this correct? 

Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Skyking1231 said:


> So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn't matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?
> 
> Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.


Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Yawn

None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care? 

Extremely expensive (expected), guaranteed to fail on the first day of your epic Moab trip (good luck finding spare parts at a LBS), etc. 

I know some people are always going to be excited about new tech, but really where's the benefit? (go ahead, tell me how it weighs 35 grams less. Then I'll remind you that it works on a battery)

I'm holding out for the 14 speed version.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Yawn
> 
> None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?
> 
> ...


Simple: 
Because I Can.

Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Yawn
> 
> None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?
> 
> ...


Don't really care about the money (within reason) if it performs better. Besides after I get my discount and sell my used Eagle parts, the investment would be quite low.

That said, i'm wondering if I would be better served by the 11 speed short derailleur XTR. A bit lighter, simpler, and my understanding is that Shimano consistently shifts better. Thoughts?

Also, how will AXS do with my oval chainring?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Ok, I am using eTap now for three years. No failures and never had to adjust the derailures even after swapping out the cassette for conditions. No cables or housings to replace. No adjustments during a ride to get perfect shifting every time. I am running 50/34 and 11-32. Now with a 46/33 and 10-33, I get both lower and higher gears I am now using. Improves my range at both ends of the cassette. And only one tooth jumps 10-15 and 10-17 with the 10-28. While not a game changer, it sure makes things better. And yes it can make you faster. When I am accelerating on smooth hard pack, running through the gears at one tooth jumps keeps my cadence just where I produce the most power. Lastly, spending money is just setting your priorities. Besides once spent, you quickly forget about the cash but you have one hella of a group set. After I get and install the deal, I will be giving away my old eTap including the 11-25 and 11-32 cassettes minus the blippers as I am keeping them. Will you be the lucky recipeant of my old eTap?


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> Yep shifter and derailleur. No experience with sunrace. Now we wait for 3 months or more for the separate parts.[/QUOT
> 
> I was told yesterday that some individual parts are available now but ALL separate parts will be available no later than April 1st. Not the Shamono situation repeated I have been assured.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Can you get us a discount too? We are deserving!


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Once the shifter and derailleur are available separately, I would anticipate they are going to fly off the shelves. There are going to be a lot of individuals who already have Eagle that will make the jump.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Yawn
> 
> None of this will make any of you a better or faster rider. But it sure will make your wallet lighter. Not to say how you should spend your money, but why do you even care?
> 
> ...


Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.

I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.

Clearly I will not be an early adopter...


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers. 
Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.

Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

alexbn921 said:


> This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers....


I think that came out a lot funnier than you intended.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

93EXCivic said:


> Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.
> 
> I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.


advantages...
bigger gear range smaller jumps
no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
perfect shifts every time. 
Huge reduction in maintainance 
Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery
Cons...
mostly a one time expense, a big one however. I do not even recall what I paid for my first eTap as I forgot after a few weeks. Just numbers on paper till the number reaches zero. 
Need to charge the battery once a month. How many times do you charge your phone or GPS? More than once a month for sure.

yep, if you crash and take out the derailure it will cost you more. Since 1966 I only damaged one derailure in all my crashes. You can crash your bike and destroy it so I believe that is not a real argument.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.


sir, my hat is off you you! Riding in minus any degree is off my bucket list. My cars do not even work right a 20 below as I just discovered. So yes, no electrics in very cold weather but......you will never find me riding in those temps! Never! I plowed snow at -16 dergree F on a Gator last week which was fine but not bike riding. Whimp over and. out!


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

alexbn921 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-wireless-eagle-axs-drivetrain-explained.html
> 
> Too bad you have to buy the whole damn thing and can't get just the shifter and derailleur.


nme


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Streetdoctor said:


> I'm sure shifter/derailleur will be available soon.


I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. It being Shimano or SRAM. For the few among us who still use a double, or triple, or for roadies, yes it might, might, give a bit of a smoother and reliable action to change chain ring. But for 1x? My 11 speed XTR is completely transparent: the only sign that I changed cog is the difference I feel in my legs ...

The only place where I can see a minute advantage for electronics is with ergonomics. Give me complete flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing. The pod looks big, it hosts a battery, and quite disappointingly it does not seem to be adjustable.

Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Davide said:


> I am really not sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you. for the few among us who still use a double, or triple, front, yes it might give a bit of smoother and reliable actions but for 1x? My XTR is completely transparent.
> 
> The only place where I can see a minute advantage is with ergonomics. Give me completely flexibility for the position of a very small pod and I would be a tiny bit happier than now. This is not what SRAM is doing here. The pod looks big, it hosts a batter, and distressingly does not seem to be adjustable.
> 
> Weight is an unknown, but I doubt it is going to be lighter than a mech.


I use four blips on my ride and this is how I shift. You can put the blips anywhere you want. Many ways to shift this system. You can use Shimano electric shifter and time trail shifters if you like. As far as pros of these systems, they have already been stated. Don't like it, don't buy it. I am first in line! On your left!


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> This is a lot like the carbonated vs fuel injected on cars and then motorcycles. Or switching from mouses with balls to lasers.
> Less weight is far down my list compared to perfect fast shifts that never need to be adjusted. Also the effort to shift is something you don't think about, but very apparent when you ride electronic shifting.
> 
> Not for everyone. Cost sucks! I would not put it on a cold weather bike.


perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Davide said:


> I am really not so sure what a REAR electronic shifter does for you.


I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.


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## Dwj60423 (Mar 29, 2011)

Pedalon2018 said:


> perfect shift every time is what these systems are about. And no or almost no maintainance ever needed to keep it shifting that way. I have been on Di2 and Red eTap for three years. Never failed me once. No adjustment done even when swapping out the cassettes. Amazing systems. I was so opposed to electrics when Di2 first came out until.....I rode one. Now Only my Fatty Farley is still cable pull. These systems are great. I will never go back to spinning barrel adjusters, wrenching on my derailures, replacing cables or housings or loss of shift quality in mud and cold. On your left!


I'm with you - 16 months of eTap on my gravel bike (7,000 miles) with zero issues. It just works. Chunky/rocky gravel, and riding in temps down to 10's F with snow, ice and grit have not impacted the flawless performance.

I have had xx1 on my fat bike since Feb 2015. Ive ridden the hell out of it, and maintained it (sort of). However, it is getting more difficult to keep it running well. It does need a complete overhaul and new cables, but instead I will definitely upgrade the shifter, derailleur and cassette when the Eagle AXS components are available this Spring.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.

But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!

I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Cool, but I'd be about the last to use them on my fatbikes in -20 to -40°F temps. Don't want electrics hanging off the bike due to this, but for a majority of riders, I think this is a neat thing.


Holy Hell, -40 degrees.

Sometimes I ride by myself in like +48 degree weather and I imagine having a failure or crash and freezing to death overnight, even though I can usually see rooftops from the trails. Texans eh?


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## Dwj60423 (Mar 29, 2011)

DethWshBkr said:


> I just say though, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of a single battery for the system, like on the Di2.
> I cant see....but does the SRAM stuff give you any battery indication? Di2, there is ZERO excuse to run out of battery, as the display unit constantly shows your battery life. If you don't want display, you can have a wireless transmitter that makes your cyclocomputer display the battery life.
> I would assume SRAM has something similar, but who knows.


Yes, there are a couple of ways. The primary method is that each derailleur, and each shifter has a small indicator that lights up each time it is activated (green is good, red is low 5-15 hours left, and flashing red is less than 5-10 hours). I just get used to checking it every few days, and have never run out. Also, the batteries are small, and I always carry a fully charged spare in my saddle bag.

You can also pair the system to your Garmin and you will get a battery low message on the Garmin screen - I have never had the need for this.


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

DethWshBkr said:


> Having one bike XT Di2, one bike XTR Di2, and one Ultegra Di2.... electronic drivetrains are bulletproof. I have no issues with it in any weather either.
> I feel eshifting is more important on the mountain bike or cyclocross bike though. Mud and crap, or ice buildup to deal with, that the Di2 just doesn't care about.
> 
> But, that price is absolutely ridiculous!
> ...


It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Dale-Calgary said:


> It sounds great and I want it but I still think spending lots of money on the drivetrain isnt the best way to spend your money.


I agree with you. I love both systems but if I could not afford it or make it a priority, you will be fine . After all, old heads have been using cable pulls of some type since the mid 60's. But these systems keep the whole deal fresh and fun! So I drop the cash. Sorry folks in my will.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Pedalon2018 said:


> advantages...
> bigger gear range smaller jumps
> no replacement ever needed for cables and housings
> perfect shifts every time.
> ...


How is it a bigger gear range versus a regular 12speed?
No replacement for cables but need to charge batteries. 
Huge expenses and how much time do you spend a year messing with derailleurs?

As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.

I also am not overly picky over shifter feel or anything like that. As long as it gets in gear, stays in gear and puts down power.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

For me, I’ll be looking at how that rainbow XX1 AXS cassette finish wears after a few months. But the shifter, derailleur, and dropper are on my list for this summer. I’d love to run a clean cockpit with just two hydraulic brake lines.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Present eTap is 50/34 and 11-32. New 12 speed will be 46/33 and 10-33. Bigger range at both ends of the cassette. Boom


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> As far as crashing, I'd say it depends on what you are doing.


I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.

I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............

The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.

But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.

Perfect shifting that you never mess with during a ride................. sounds like every half-decent rear derailleur and shifter I have owned for the past two decades. 

And as far as having to replace cables.... Ever since I started running full length housing, I go several years between changing those... and that is pretty much always for some reason other than them being worn, like I am moving parts to a new frame. 

What I really have a hard time wrapping my head around is why bother with a wireless connection? What advantage does it offer over a wire when the two things that need to communicate with each other are bolted in fixed positions on the same object and only a few feet apart from each other? What is the point? Are you planning on going somewhere with the rear derailleur or shifter? Or is this so that the shifting still works after the bike is sawed in half? 

Whatever, to each there own. If it makes you smile, enjoy it. At some point the price will come down and someday we we won't have to live with the indignity of having our cables showing.



EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the rainbow chain and cassette.... I'm in.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> I've crashed way more times than I'd care to admit, damaged and broken many bike and body parts but over 30 years time I have never managed to break a derailleur. Anecdotal I admit but just saying that I wouldn't be afraid of spending money on one, if I had that sort of money that is.
> 
> I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous


I have broken one by smashing it on a rock and I know one of riding buddies just had to replace an Eagle.

I will try one when they are available for much much cheaper. I won't spend over $50-$75 on derailleur.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kapusta said:


> But that all goes out the window with 1X drivetrains.


The reports I've heard tout the ability to shift while out of the saddle and while sprinting, which admittedly you could do before but electronics apparently makes it much smoother and easier.

My 1x drivetrain shifts great and usually feels buttery smooth but 2 hours into a race I can sometimes barely move the lever because my hands feel like blocks of wood. Current drivetrains shift great and are very reliable IME but there's always room for improvement and component manufactures always need to boost profits. Time will tell.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

DOCRIGID said:


> it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!


Kind of like like my 'non-electrical' version


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think that would be hard to determine until you used it for awhile, lots of road riders who use electronic shifting say they would never go back to cables and it seems like the benefits for mtb would be even greater.


True, although I find it hard to see how this or Shimano's Di2 can improve on something that I only notice because my thumb applies a tiny pressure on a pod ...

Weight and lack of adjustable ergonomics to the side this is obviously the future. Twenty years from now I won't be riding any more but everybody who will will be on electric motor assisted bike and electronic everything!


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> All I know is that the 12 speed Eagle derailleur already seems more prone to being damaged out riding - either by sticks getting caught in the derailleur/wheels or smacking against rocks. It's already $110+ to replace an Eagle GX derailleur. I don't know what an AXS derailleur will cost to replace, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay the price.
> 
> Clearly I will not be an early adopter...


EXACTLY my feelings toward Eagle GX 12spd...I'm converting to Shimano 11spd next time I gobble up a stick and mangle another $110 derailleur.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

scatterbrained said:


> Simple:
> Because I Can.
> 
> Besides, that tie-dyed cassette and chain look sweet. Tie dyed (oil slick) is the new purple ano.


That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.

In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Gregg K said:


> I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.


OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Gregg K said:


> I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool. I bought eewing cranks because they're also cool. That's how the market works. I also like the idea of being able to adjust the derailleur using nothing more than the control unit. I don't want a dinner plate for a cassette, so I'll be waiting even more now for individual components to become available. Maybe I'm impractical, but I haven't waited with baited breath for just about anything this long.


after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Davide said:


> That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.
> 
> In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.


We buy stuff all the time cause we are manipulated by ads. And their excellent at that. Super Bowl ads did not sell for 5 million USD because ads do not work. But in the end we can justify anything we do otherwise we would be irrational. And who wants to be that?


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

kapusta said:


> OK, I guess any product that makes someone THIS happy can't be so bad.


All BS aside, if the group set did not sell for 2 thousand USD, most would buy the system. Eagle folks will be all over this when individual parts become available soon. Some already are. Not the derailures however.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Pedalon2018 said:


> after three years on both eTap and Di2, I never had to adjust the derailure front or rear. Even after I changed out the cassettes to a different range of gears. Spot on every time, even after 20,000 shifts. I know that number cause Garmin counts both and front and rear gear changes for you. The new 10-26 may be the right cassette for you. One tooth gaps from 10 to 19. Great for fast acceleration on hard pack.


Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

Gregg K said:


> Cables suck. My new build won't have one cable. Also, cool factor trumps everything. Can't get respect around here. /Dangerfield voice


You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Dale-Calgary said:


> You going old school pedal backwards to brake style?


Hoses. All hoses. I can still do brodies without cables, man.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Wireless electronic droppers sound pretty hot.


You guys are making me ill :^(


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kapusta said:


> You guys are making me ill :^(


Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Don't worry, you can still get 100% analog Hite-Rite dropper springs on e-bay or at vintage swap meets


Closer to the mark than you might think.

It would probably not surprise you to learn that I am still using the Gravity Dropper I bought in 2005.

I was very cutting edge in 2005.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And now you'll have to plug all your frame holes to keep water and crap out!


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

My bike computer stopped working at 0°F, but my cable XT worked perfectly. 
They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40°F or 20°F?

XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

HerrKaLeun said:


> My bike computer stopped working at 0°F, but my cable XT worked perfectly.
> They say batteries last for 25 hours when new. What about 3 year old batteries? What about when 40°F or 20°F?
> 
> XT also shifts perfectly in general, so don't really see the improvement here. And full cable housing with optislick cable is bulletproof through a lot of mud rides. Most imperfections seem to be hanger, cassette or chain issues anyway.


Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Some of us that ride in much colder temps will wait and see and use reliable cables in the meantime. Doesn't mean never, but it's safer to wait.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Davide said:


> That "Because I can" is a kind of a weak argument.
> 
> In general, nothing to do with SRAM, a sensible approach seems to be one in which you acquire objects if they give you some advantage. Otherwise some could buy, say, solid gold side stands "because he/she can". Free country, of course, you could do that. But coming back to the current topic the fact that you can buy something has nothing to do with how much or how little it is an improvement in respect to current offerings.


It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

I suspect Eagle AXS will shift as well as XTR 12, but without the wires. Nice for eagle owners since they'll have Shimano caliber shifting without the wires, nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS? 

If I had the bitcoin I would go with...


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

westernmtb said:


> nice for xtr owners since they'll have the best mechanical group on the planet at a significantly lower price than AXS?


Maybe, IF XTR ever gets released. :devil:


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

Moved


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Pedalon2018 said:


> Have you actually rode a bike for any substantial miles to judge for others? If you have not tried it, how can you fully understand the system? If you like it, buy it, otherwise keep riding.


A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.

I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride. 
but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.

I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies. So far it wasn't a problem since roadies already get long sleeves when it is 60°F and don't ride in actual cold. But an MTB groupset could realistically be used in the cold by regular riders.

electronic shifting solves the shifter wear (or cheap shifter, like NX) problem, the cable stretch and dirt problem. With high quality full cable housings the latter isn't a big problem. 
But it seems most people who have shifting problems suffer from bend RD hangers etc. and electronic shifters don't solve that problem.

To each their own. I'm sure those will fly off the shelves and soon they will come out with GX and NX versions that are more affordable. I'm also sure people will love them as long as they stay out of the cold.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted. 
If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

scatterbrained said:


> It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.


Well stated Sir.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

DOCRIGID said:


> it shifts as many times as you click, click 11 times it shifts 11 times, perfectly, everytime!


Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.

This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?

I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?




93EXCivic said:


> Agreed. Only advantage I can see is bar spins.





93EXCivic said:


> I guess not dealing with cables is nice but that seems to be offset by having to charge the batteries.




Eliminating cabling is probably my biggest draw to it to be honest. But on the flip side, to get rid of both cables on my bars I'd also have to dump another $800 into a friggin seat post. That is *NOT* gonna happen.

As for batteries, no biggie, assuming it can at least be charged via USB (either as is, or via simple adapter.) As it stands, my typical weekday ride (which goes into the night a bit) involves two lights (bar and helmet mounted), a wahoo elemnt bolt, trekz titanium headphones (the bone conduction type), and my phone. All of them happily get topped off after my rides by way of simple USB charging in my vehicle... ready to rock for the next ride. Adding one more battery to the list wouldn't kill me.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

kapusta said:


> Warning: Old man yelling at clouds..............
> 
> The biggest advantage (and only one I find compelling) of electronic shifting on road bikes is how they deal with the front derailleur. Namely, trimming it as you go through the rear cassette, and also (as an option) shifting the front along with the rear to provide tighter gear ratios. Not enough of an advantage to make me even consider owning it, but I do see the upside, there.
> 
> ...


AMEN!

(Except for the edited part where you lost me.)


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I'm curious to know what Di2 owners do in the cold. Not trolling, really curious. I read somewhere di2 is limited to -10°C (19°F), but not sure what % of capacity it has at -10°C and where it actually dies.


I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.

My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

scatterbrained said:


> It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.


Nice. Now I feel better about my 9 bikes and 5 guitars.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Personally I don't think Eagle shifts great. And I spend considerable time adjusting iit and having it adjusted.
> If AXS more crisp, consistent, with no crunch, and never a thrown chain while shifting under power to a lower gear (fairly common wiith Eagle), i'm in.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Really? I'm all for the electronic shifting but I've thrown a chain while shifting to a lower gear with eagle exactly zero times in about 10,000 miles. It sounds like you don't know how to adjust a limit screw. I wouldn't classify it as "fairly common". In that regard it's no different than any other derailleur on the market in the last 30 years.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

DethWshBkr said:


> I don't usually ride that cold, but I did do a 2.5 hour ride (8 miles road, 8 miles rail trail, 9.5 miles trail) and the average temp was 21 as low as 15.
> 
> My battery didn't change. I was at 3 bars of battery life, the ride ended with 3 bars of battery life.
> Did the same ride a week later, no change in battery. Bike was stored in the garage, average temp was 38-40.


The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

scatterbrained said:


> ... Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction...


True, but everybody does some sort of evaluation and calculation in establishing their level of satisfaction, and that's what many of these discussion in these forums are about. Price is certainly something that can figure in. I think most people, regardless of means, get satisfaction from getting a good deal or a great value.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

No AXS but have been riding eTap for 3 years along with Di2 so my experience is much more than those that never tried it. It just rocks. Cost and battery charging is the only downside. I always have two fully charged batteries on board besides the ones installed on the derailures. Never needed to use them. They are very light and hold their charge very well. If one does go dead, just put the good battery on the rear and off you go. No component is perfect but Red eTap is the closest you will get to one. I am sure AXS will be no different.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.

I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.
> 
> I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
> but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.
> ...





Pedalon2018 said:


> The Di2 battery is actually a pretty strong battery. Stays charged with very little lost in charge after 4 months of inactivity. I needed to have my Escalade ESV serviced because I no longer wrench in below zero temps. So I loaded up my ride in the back and drove to my Indy Tech. So I had a eight mile ride back home in minus 5 degrees F over rolling two lane. I shifted a lot of those miles. I was very cold but the Di2 acted like we were on our favorite trail in 80 degrees bliss. Got home and the battery still showed 5 bars. I know eight miles is not long but it is the most I will ever ride in those temps. It worked fine throughout the short but freezing ride.


Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.

ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

DethWshBkr said:


> Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.
> 
> ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.


The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

DethWshBkr said:


> Di2 also goes into standby. If you don't shift for a period of time, the system goes into standby mode. Pretty much ZERO batter consumption. Since the unit it then "woken" by a physical wired button push, it can sit in a zero consumption standby.
> 
> ANY wireless communicating system MUST maintain it's connectivity, so it will need to use battery, whether you are riding, or sitting in the garage.


Because Di2 is not wireless, the system is mostly dead till you call for a command. No need for Di2 to power up a wireless receiver while the bike is in motion. When you hit the shifter, you complete a circuit and the system shifts. No drain while underway except for the data it sends out to Garmin like battery level, what gear you are in or which chain ring you are in. Di2 or eTap go a very long time between charges and I know of no one who has run out of power. I am sure it happens but you must not be tuned into your bike if you let that happen.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Pedalon2018 said:


> The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.


Makes sense. Like my ANT cadence sensor that wakes up upon detecting revolutions.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

WHALENARD said:


> I'll take wireless shifting and droppers for sure. Wireless gearboxes, even better. The price though. As a guy who's been into RC for 40 years you can buy a much more complicated machine with far more working parts for $50.


Exactly. SRAM is the firstest with the mostest at the moment so they can enjoy the privilege of charging for well engineered but essentially nothing special technology. I'm gonna hang back and let market competition do its thing. When it's $500 for a mech and shifter, count me in!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> 800 greenbacks for a dropper post that weighs 600+ grams.
> 
> I think I'll stick with my planned BikeYoke Divine SL purchase instead.


Agreed. I'll take a wireless bikeyoke for $450 with no weight penalty though. Maybe in a couple years.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> A bike, yes since childhood in the 80's... if you mean electrically shifted bike, no. But I doubt you used AXS either. So we both are speculating.
> 
> I don't doubt AXS (or Di2) shifts really nice and everyone who has Di2 seems to love it. For whoever wants to spend the $, it sure seems nice. It looks Di2 has much longer battery life (some months?) compared to AXS. Maybe that is why shimano stays with a wired solution? the 25 hour (or fewer to be realistic) af AXS isn't really great for a critical component. I forgot to charge my bike computer and had ran out, no biggie since i still could ride.
> but the problem of battery degradation with age and cold is real and applies to all batteries. Unless SRAM could invent a battery that Tesla, Samsung et al couldn't, this is a 3 season drivetrain.
> ...





Pedalon2018 said:


> The eTap system does go to sleep if the bike is not moving. It has a sensor in the rear derailure that detects motion. Once it detects motion, the receiver stay active waiting for a command. So if you transport your bike any distance, best to disconnect the batteries. Now the drain is very very low but no need to discharge the battery for no reason. The battery is much smaller than the Di2 but still, I never ever came close to running out of power. I use to carry two fully charged spares but I am now down to just taking one spare. This year I will be not carry any. If a 2x system like mine, you always have a spare on the other derailure to use.


Good. it does make sense that they would have some sort of sleep mode but obviously I am not familiar with that.

As somebody else said especially with the di2, since I use the display on my mountain bikes, if you run out of battery, you are trying to do it. 
I did running experiment one time where my ultegra 6870 group was low battery power. I wanted to see how far I could go until it died completely. I only got about a half hour in, but I do believe my Garmin had indicated I was at 10%. 
I have never run out of battery on my scarp which has the XTR di2, but when it gets to one bar I charge it.
If in some stupid way you had to ride and you were only on one bar, if you leave it on charge for 30 minutes you gain if I'm not mistaken 35 to 40% battery life. So it is a very fast charge too, if it's an emergency.

But yeah running out of battery is like saying my tire ran out of air. If you are really not paying attention that much, then yeah you really don't need to ride di2 or etap but you need to seriously question your ability to walk and chew gum.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

Here's the killer app for the AXS derailleur- hack it and reprogram the shift stops for an 11-speed or 10-speed cassette. Install an alloy or Ti lightweight cassette and drop 1/4 to 1/2 lb. off the rear wheel.

In the future, logic could be incorporated into the derailleur programming using an ASIC that could vary derailleur movement depending on cadence to optimize shifting. Or momentarily overshift when shifting into a larger cog to optimize downshifting under load. Lots of possibilities.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Thoreau said:


> Except when hammering through the gears (at least for downshifting) with mechanical one long (distance, not time) push can run through 5 gears on Eagle.
> 
> This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?
> 
> I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows?


I expect this is similar to how other electronic shifters already are, you long press for a multi-gear shift. It's simple and effective. At least on my Archer setup, you can select how long the press is and how many gears to shift at once. It works quite well, I run it at a very short press for a 4 gear jump up or down. It never feels like there is a delay in how fast you can input the shifts, but you can get ahead of the derailleur. So tap for a single gear, slightly hold the tap for three. And a few long taps for the whole stack. Or as many quick taps as needed for a specific jump. It's better than a traditional shifter, although not as fast if you are really slamming through the gears. I expect AXS will prove to be faster than the Archer system.

As to some of the battery comments, yeah it's something that occasionally needs charging. It's not a big deal. As I understand it the AXS derailleur and shifter go to sleep when the bike is still, the derailleur wakes up and looks for the shifter if it senses movement. The shifter sleeps until you push the lever, that's probably a big part of why you can go a year or two on a coin cell. On my Archer setup, the shifter sleeps if it doesn't see the servo for more than several seconds. If you wake up the servo it stays awake until it has been motionless for 15 minutes, which is adjustable. Mine requires a button push to wake back up if you let it shut down, which works fine although I suppose auto waking would be more convenient at some cost in battery life. These modern little radios pair very quickly on an encrypted link and are quite stable.

I think this system looks to be very well thought out, and this is despite my having long been of the opinion that SRAM stuff often sucks to be blunt. I'm not going to run out and buy one but I might when it's gotten some more user feedback and is more widely available in individual components. I expect that it won't have some abilities that would be welcome but are unlikely to be provided, like being programmable for gear quantity and spacing. If they did allow that sort of flexibility I would be much more likely to buy in. I'm pretty happy running my Archer with XTR gear, I really want to try out the new Shimano cassettes more than this system.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Thoreau said:


> This is one area where I'm still a bit skeptical of the electronic offerings. The only way that system can go through multiple gears is based on time... how long you hold the button. In order to prevent accidental multi-shifts, it also has to have some sort of delay. So press/instance 1st shift... (some delay)... more shifts?
> 
> I think it'd be hard to strike a good balance between avoiding accidental multi-shifts vs. effective gear-dump speediness. I'm sure that it'll be hashed out. Probably via some sort of multiple-indent button click, or pressure-level sensitivity. But for now, who knows
> [/FONT]


With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2, one click = one shift, HOLD the button to shift until you release the button. Shift speed is adjustable.
You can make either shifter shift either derailleur either direction, or mix and match if you so choose (So the normal right shifter upshift button instead downshifts the front derailleur, and the normal right shifter downshifts the rear derailleur, or ANY combo you may want if you're really, really really strange like that!)

XTR and XT Di2, the shifter has two paddles, BOTH of which press forward only, and are close to each other. Both paddles have two clicks. You can program them to do whatever you want. 
For example, if you want to upshift (down the cassette) you push the one paddle. To downshift, you push the other paddle. (NOTICE I did not label the paddles)
Paddle Y, you have a small throw to engage the Y1 (first click), but if you push through, you get Y2 click.
Paddle X, small throw, X1 first click, push through, you get X2 click.

You can program it so X1 either does nothing, upshifts 1 gear, downshifts 1 gear, or downshifts multiple gears, or upshifts multiple gears. 
INDEPENDANTLY, you can make X2 do nothing, upshift 1, downshift 1, or up or downshift multiple.
You can do the same for the Y paddle.

Now, you can adjust the speed at which the derailleur moves as well. Very Slow, Slow, Normal, Fast, Very Fast. 
You can also set a limit on gear changes per paddle shift (IF you have a shift set for multiple gears) 2, 3, or unlimited.

In my situation, I have X1 being downshift unlimited gears, very fast. X2 Nothing. Y1 upshift unlimited gears, very fast, Y2 nothing. Then, to top it off, I have SyncroShift engaged, (which I programmed shift points that I liked based on my legs and how I like the ratios) so it will shift the front and rear at the same time based on the ratios I liked. All of this is seamless and smooth. Half the time, the only way I know it shifted the front, is because just before a front shift, the audible *beep beep* happens, and then 1/10 of a second later, the front shifts, and the rear shifts the opposite way at the exact same time. If I reach the end of my shifts, a single *beep* occurs to tell me I have no more gears (since there is no mechanical resistance feedback on the shifter like if you are the end of the cable throw)


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Any idea if the system can be programmed for 11 speed cassettes or a Shimano cassette? Since it's electronic, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, other than Sram wanting to sell more 12 speed cassettes.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

DethWshBkr said:


> With Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2...
> 
> XTR and XT Di2...


That's interesting, I didn't realize Di2 had so many options and push through 2nd lever functions.

It sounds like SRAM went with a simpler system.

From my experience, the simpler style works fine, but I can't say I wouldn't like to try the Shimano style. I can say that well-executed wireless has more appeal to me than more shifter setup options. I never seriously considered Di2 because it is overly complicated for what it does, even though I have never heard a complaint about the performance and I am confident I would like how it rides.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Any idea if the system can be programmed for 11 speed cassettes or a Shimano cassette? Since it's electronic, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to, other than Sram wanting to sell more 12 speed cassettes.


You answered your own question. It is very unlikely that they will ever open up the configuration to run non-Eagle cassettes natively. I wouldn't be shocked if they even shaded their tolerances away from Shimano 12sp cassette spacing, although they would never admit to it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Streetdoctor said:


> Really? I'm all for the electronic shifting but I've thrown a chain while shifting to a lower gear with eagle exactly zero times in about 10,000 miles. It sounds like you don't know how to adjust a limit screw. I wouldn't classify it as "fairly common". In that regard it's no different than any other derailleur on the market in the last 30 years.


I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly. 
Just try to be really gentle and thoughtful during shifts, but still have plenty of issues.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly.


Time to visit a new bike shop. :lol:


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't! Which is why I take my bike literally monthly for an adjustment which doesn't make it much better honestly.
> Just try to be really gentle and thoughtful during shifts, but still have plenty of issues.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Ya man that ain't right... I've setup about a dozen eagles..... after the initial break in I've found the B screw will move and you'll get a little cable stretch. (Maybe after 100 miles or so). Once I readjust it, it's basically set it and forget it and I don't touch it again until I have to replace cables. Perfectly quiet, perfectly smooth. Thinking about it now I've ran eagle on 7 of my personal bikes, plus 2 for my wife.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

HollyBoni said:


> Time to visit a new bike shop. :lol:


+1

actually he(she?) should learn to do that inc RD hanger alignment. Takes less time than dragging the bike to the LBS.
Plenty of tutorials on that, come back if help needed.

The only time one needs to re-adjust is after the cable broke in.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Gregg K said:


> The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.


This would not surprise me at all. The electronic shifting, as a consequence of being so ridiculously precise, is that it must mate with it's designed cassette.
I tested a Shimano Ultegra 11-32 cassette on my Scarp with the XTR Di2, instead of the XT 11-40 I had on. I wanted tighter ratios for XC racing, and since I had a 2x I still was way lower than I'd need with a 26/32!
It worked fine except for 2 cogs 2/3 of the way down. If I trimmed it to work ok there, it didn't work properly on the lower gears. As soon as I put the 11-40 XT cassette back on, shifting has been absolutely perfect.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

The derailleur system would have to be hacked and the programmed shift stop points would need to be redefined based on the cog spacing for the cassette you install. A PITA, but a fun project for someone who can figure out how to get into the system and reprogram it.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

scatterbrained said:


> It's not a weak argument. It's the perfect argument. Mtbing is a leisure activity. Recreational activities aren't justified based on some engineering or accounting spreadsheet, but simply on a basis of personal satisfaction. Where is the sense in spending tens of thousands of dollars restoring a noisy, slow, ill handling car that doesn't even have A/C? What about the massive expense of climbing Mt Everest? Where's the sense there? All of your rationalizations start at a comparative base of pitting one luxury item against another, making the entire effort moot. This isn't like comparing the cost and value of foodstuffs at a grocery store, or trying to find ways to save money on your electric bill. This is you trying to tell a consumer of a luxury good that they shouldn't purchase it because you don't see the value. Do you often hang out in art galleries shooing people away from art that doesn't meet your standards? When it comes to recreation, our purchases are dictated by our desires and disposable incomes, not a spreadsheet analysis.


If somebody is discussing the pro and con of item B vs item C and you come along and say "I'll buy C because I can" you are not making any contribution to the discussion. Which is fine, lot's of posts don't really make that much sense anyway. But you are not having a germane conversation, you are just expressing your joy at buying anything that shines and titillates you :thumbsup: which is of course more than fine. We monkeys, and crows, like shiny objects.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mlloyd007 said:


> The derailleur system would have to be hacked and the programmed shift stop points would need to be redefined based on the cog spacing for the cassette you install. A PITA, but a fun project for someone who can figure out how to get into the system and reprogram it.


This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.


It makes absolute sense that SRAM and Shimano make these systems proprietary; making these open systems would be a waste of their significant R&D investment. Nearly all technology companies operate the same way for good economic reason, so it's not an evil SRAM/ Shimano thing. That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. Not sure, however how widely distributed an alternate gear sequencing routine would be. It would surely void the warranty, so the consumer uptake of a hacked alternative would be quite slow. Interesting stuff however; options are good.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Velodonata said:


> This is what is so frustrating with SRAM and Shimano, they never want to allow these sort of options. I expect it would be extremely difficult to hack into this and make the shifting parameters user adjustable, even though it would be very simple for SRAM to make it so. Same thing with Shimano and Di2. The same app that is used for setting up the system now could easily incorporate settings for total number of cogs and individual spacing between cogs, and then you could have optimized shifting for any cassette you wanted to run that the derailleur could physically span. Simple for SRAM/Shimano, but a hacker would need to not only create a new app or interface for programming but figure out how to update the firmware of the components themselves to accept the changes. I don't see it ever happening, but I would love to be wrong.


I full agree with you with the following points.

SRAM Red eTap has two "approved" cassettes of 11-25 and 11-32 with two cranks to choose 53/38 or 50/34. Di2 XT also has two cassettes for 2x and 3 for 1x, 11-40, 11-42 and for 1x 11-46. Two cranks to pick, 26/36 or 28/38. Now with AXS you get a choice of three cassettes, 10-26, 10-28 and 11-33 with three chain ring choices, 50/37, 48/35 and 46/33. So at least you get an additional choices. That all said, you can put anything you want on your bike that you can get to work. The display on XT will be wrong and the read outs on Garmin will indicate wrong data but....so what. If you use Syncro shift on Di2, it will be burgered up but you can fool it to shift the way you want. Now I own all the approved cassettes for eTap and Di2 XT. They work perfectly. I have experimented with a few unapproved cassettes. They work too but not with the presision of the factory stuff. Most likely the way the cassettes and chain rings are engineered. That is the way it is for now. I am not unhappy with the choices but we always want more options. Safe Travels!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

mlloyd007 said:


> ...That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. ....


Are there any hacks likes this out there for road or mtb Di2 or road eTap? Those have been out for years and I'm not aware of any, though there may be.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sram could easily make this work for any 10-12 speed cassette. The chain might need more clearance and different jockey wheels. 10 speed chains are wider.
I don't see many aftermarket hacks on current systems and bet that you would basically have to write the software from scratch. Sram and Shimano would also be aggressive with law suits it you tried to sell the hack.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mlloyd007 said:


> It makes absolute sense that SRAM and Shimano make these systems proprietary; making these open systems would be a waste of their significant R&D investment. Nearly all technology companies operate the same way for good economic reason, so it's not an evil SRAM/ Shimano thing. That said, I have no doubt the SRAM system will be hacked, and likely in short order. Not sure, however how widely distributed an alternate gear sequencing routine would be. It would surely void the warranty, so the consumer uptake of a hacked alternative would be quite slow. Interesting stuff however; options are good.


I don't think they are evil, it is just personally annoying that it would be so easy and yet we will never have the option. It must make sense to them on some sort of business level, they would probably sell more shifters and derailleurs if they opened it up but not enough to offset the loss of cassette and chain sales. And perhaps they don't want poorly tuned systems out there making them look bad and causing support hassles. Shimano has yet to arrive to the party, but now offers what may be a truly superior cassette that could easily work very well on a slightly reconfigured AXS system. This alone is all the motivation they need to keep it locked down. And it may very well work acceptably with the new Hyperglide+ cassettes, but it will not shift the full range without some issues that can't be tuned out. It will be interesting to see how significant they are.

I disagree on the ease of hacking, I expect it will be difficult enough that there is unlikely anyone with the skills required who considers it important enough to tackle.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> Sram could easily make this work for any 10-12 speed cassette. The chain might need more clearance and different jockey wheels. 10 speed chains are wider.
> I don't see many aftermarket hacks on current systems and bet that you would basically have to write the software from scratch. Sram and Shimano would also be aggressive with law suits it you tried to sell the hack.


Yes, and it would probably work fine with about any cassette and an 11 speed chain. I have had no problems running chains a speed higher than the cassette in the past, sometimes it even works better.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

kapusta said:


> Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?


The conversation has included some references to road eTap components, since there will be some cross-compatibility. MTB will be the same as current Eagle offerings, I expect.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

kapusta said:


> Am I understanding what I am reading in this thread to indicate that 10-26, 10-28, and 11-33 are the only mtb cassette options with this system?


Those are the road cassettes...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Am i correct thinking they only allow specific cassettes because the RD moves laterally AND vertically to keep the B-gap consistent (or optimized)? 

An analog RD moves sideways and once the B-screw is set (based on a gap on the largest cog) the vertical location only depends on the lateral position. For example if the largest cog is 10T, the gap will be larger compared to an 11T as the smallest cog (exxample a n 11-50 or an 10-50 cassette). The disadvantage of that is slightly imprecise shifting (due to not always perfect gap). The advantage is i can use cassettes not originally intended. 

The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. Maybe it also over-shifts slightly and shifts back into pre-programmed position. Advantage is more perfect and fast shifting. But the disadvantage is it only works well with pre-programmed cassettes and not with 3rd party cassettes. 

Maybe I'm wrong here, but that may explain why they are sticklers on using specific cassettes.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

The derailleur is specific to the cassette and must be matched together. They move in both planes at the same time.
The shifters and derailleurs are cross compatible. So you can mix and match road and mountain bike parts anyway you want.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

HerrKaLeun said:


> ...The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. ...


No. B gap/radial spacing works the same as mechanical. The motor only moves the RD in the same direction as the cable does on the corresponding mechanical group.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

HerrKaLeun said:


> Am i correct thinking they only allow specific cassettes because the RD moves laterally AND vertically to keep the B-gap consistent (or optimized)?


Nope.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

alexbn921 said:


> The derailleur is specific to the cassette and must be matched together. They move in both planes at the same time.
> The shifters and derailleurs are cross compatible. So you can mix and match road and mountain bike parts anyway you want.


You can use any shifters, but you must use the same family of derailleur.

I have Ultegra Di2 8070 on my CX bike. But, I have XT derailleurs. 
You CANNOT mix derailleur family (mountain or road) (Ex - XTR rear, Ultegra front; or Dura Ace rear XTR front. 
I am NOT sure about running different grades of the same family (XTR rear, XT front)

The shifters are just a button. It really doesn't care. But, the programming of the derailleurs is the issue. The data and programming is stored in the battery of a Di2 unit.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

HerrKaLeun said:


> The way the electronic RD may work may be that the RD knows which exact cog is at what position and adjusts lateral and vertical position for a pre-programmed gap. Maybe it also over-shifts slightly and shifts back into pre-programmed position. Advantage is more perfect and fast shifting. But the disadvantage is it only works well with pre-programmed cassettes and not with 3rd party cassettes.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong here, but that may explain why they are sticklers on using specific cassettes.


I believe it works much more like a regular derailleur than you would expect. The critical dimension is cog spacing, the distance between cogs. It is unique to SRAM Eagle cassettes, and electronic or cable actuated, each shift will only move the derailleur that precise distance. The B-gap takes care of itself once set correctly, with electronic or the traditional derailleur. The new Shimano 12sp cassettes use slightly different spacing so if you set it perfectly for any gear, the other gears are going to be progressively further off center. If you set it for the 5 or 6 cog, it may be that it doesn't get far enough out of alignment to be a significant issue at the end cogs. That remains to be seen, but I believe this may have already been determined on regular Eagle parts as the Shimano cassettes are trickling out there. I have seen videos of the new Shimano 12sp derailleurs shifting on an Eagle cassette. Unfortunately these combinations are unlikely to work as well as the correct cassette with matching spacing, and anything less than perfect shifting is unacceptable for a system like this.

Changing the number of cogs is a much bigger problem because the spacing is further off and the system won't know there is a missing cog. As proven by the aftermarket systems like the Archer D1x, it is relatively easy to configure for number of cogs and precise inter-cog spacing via a well designed app. You could even run oddball combinations of cassette parts and variable spacing on an Archer setup with little trouble, so it is definitely within the capabilities of Eagle AXS and Di2 if they wanted to allow it.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Gregg K said:


> The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.


That would be what the Archer Components D1-X shifter would be good for.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

So I am watching the new SRAM AXS training (infomercials) through the shop training, and one thing that I haven't seen fully mentioned yet, is temperature.
According to this video, rear derailleurs "can" reject shifts and one of the reasons that it could reject a shift is temperature, and the example they stated was -15*C which is 5*F. I'll stop riding around 0* anymore, but hope to change that as I get back into shape, but wanted to share that tidbit of info.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> advantages...
> perfect shifts every time.
> Huge reduction in maintainance
> Cleans up bike with no cables running to derailures or handlebar or battery


Yes. Yes. And yes.



J.B. Weld said:


> I predict this thread will sound very dated 10 years from now when electronic shift systems are ubiquitous


Agreed.



Kuttermax said:


> Once the shifter and derailleur are available separately, I would anticipate they are going to fly off the shelves. There are going to be a lot of individuals who already have Eagle that will make the jump.


Me for one. The moment this happens.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

HollyBoni said:


> Time to visit a new bike shop. :lol:


I agree -- if your bike shop can't get your Eagle running perfectly then I'd try a different one.
Mine is silent up and down the cassette, and definitely doesn't exhibit what the poster described.
No question Eagle needs to be set up very precisely -- and I'd say far less margin for error than the many other drivetrains I've set up over the past 10 years -- but once it's dialled in it is fantastic.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

In my possibly ill-informed opinion, they could sell a boatload of these things by putting in the app some basic user adjustments to the cog spacing. Then anyone could buy this for any drive train, rip out their old stuff, bolt this on, and set it for their cog spacing and cog number, and hit the trail. But what do I know?


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

does anybody know if there was any change to the RD to address some of those stuck chain issues that a lot of people were seeing with the mechanical eagle RD? I can't really tell by the pictures and videos online


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Schulze said:


> In my possibly ill-informed opinion, they could sell a boatload of these things by putting in the app some basic user adjustments to the cog spacing. Then anyone could buy this for any drive train, rip out their old stuff, bolt this on, and set it for their cog spacing and cog number, and hit the trail. But what do I know?


For real, should be no problem to make it work for 11 spd... but then you won't need the $400 cassette, and that's a problem for SRAM.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Gregg K said:


> I've waited 5 years for this. No more cables. And it's fuking cool.


This. Order is going in tomorrow, for everything for an MTB.

Now. If they could make something that will shift a pinion box (servo/wireless shifter), they are welcome to my first(as yet un)born


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## CallumRD1 (Oct 10, 2018)

farfromovin said:


> For real, should be no problem to make it work for 11 spd... but then you won't need the $400 cassette, and that's a problem for SRAM.


SRAM does make a $100 12 speed NX Eagle 11-50 cassette that fits on a normal Shimano freehub and a $200 12 speed GX eagle 10-50 cassette for XD drivers...both of which are compatible with the new AXS wireless groupset.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Do we know USD pricing for the shifter and derailleur only?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Penny said:


> Do we know USD pricing for the shifter and derailleur only?


No and we won't for several months. Complete sets only at this time.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

alexbn921 said:


> No and we won't for several months. Complete sets only at this time.


Pinkbike were suggesting in 4 weeks, once the first orders of full sets were delivered.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Tom Howard said:


> Pinkbike were suggesting in 4 weeks, once the first orders of full sets were delivered.


We are still at least a month away from USA pre-order availability for the full sets. OEM will soak up the alot of the production too. 2 months for USA stores minimum. Maybe less from worldwide cyclery but still gonna be awhile while Sram milks the full sets. They will sell every one they make so they are not worried.

My XTR prediction back in October. 
https://forums.mtbr.com/shimano/2018-shimano-xtr-12-speed-1078845-post13847375.html#post13847375


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

alexbn921 said:


> We are still at least a month away from USA pre-order availability for the full sets.


That sucks. Mines due to arrive in 4 weeks. 😎 With the reverb the week before 😎😎 in the UK


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Skyking1231 said:


> So if you have an eagle cassette already. Than its just the shifter/controller and derailluer? Doesn't matter what crankset you have. Is this correct?
> 
> Here is a thought. Think a sunrace 12 speed cassette would work ? It worked on my eagle drivetrain.


I am curious about that as well. Only $100 for a 12 speed Sunrace and it fits on my Shimano driver.

If it works with Eagle and AXS works with Eagle, the Sunrace should in theory, work with AXS.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Penny said:


> I am curious about that as well. Only $100 for a 12 speed Sunrace and it fits on my Shimano driver.
> 
> If it works with Eagle and AXS works with Eagle, the Sunrace should in theory, work with AXS.


Correct. if it works with mechanical Eagle, it will work with Eagle AXS. Unless 'it' is a gear cable.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

So the Reverb AXS (besides the electronic part) is a new revision with a 500hr service interval. I haven’t heard anything about a new “normal” Reverb though? I know, not drivetrain related...


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Question! Can you use the rear (sprint) button with the reverb, so you can have derraileur and seatpost controled by one shifter(controller)?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> Question! Can you use the rear (sprint) button with the reverb, so you can have derraileur and seatpost controled by one shifter(controller)?


Yes/no. As long as you use the reverb button to shift up/or down, and then the opposite on the RHS shifter. What im saying is you have to have both 'shifters' to be able to do it, you cant do it all off one, as the RHS shifter only has two buttons (but 3 contact points, all 3 are on the same rocker)


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Oh! I didnt mention that are working like two buttons instead of 3 separate! You sure for that?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> Oh! I didnt mention that are working like two buttons instead of 3 separate! You sure for that?


Yes. if you watch the video closely you can see them rocking. Also, if you could do everything from one unit, SRAM would've made a big deal of it...


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Tom Howard said:


> Yes. if you watch the video closely you can see them rocking. Also, if you could do everything from one unit, SRAM would've made a big deal of it...


edit
deleted


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Gregg K said:


> The first question on my mind was whether or not AXS would work with an 11 speed cassette. I found a document for retailers that states it only works with 12 speed cassettes. Hopefully there's a workaround for this. If not, there will likely be a new set of 12 speed cassettes with close ratios, which sounds like a good thing to be honest, despite the extra weight. I'd love a 10-42 12 speed, give or take a tooth on each end.


Up to the point Shimano announced their failings. they were going to release an 11 speed cassette with the 12 speed spacing. Still need the new derailure. Now I do not know if and when that 11 cassette will ever be released.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

alexbn921 said:


> They are on a rocker, but are 3 separate buttons.
> You can do everything form one shifter.
> They specifically said it in the videos and right ups.


The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Tom Howard said:


> The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.


:madman:
Your right.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

alexbn921 said:


> :madman:
> Your right.


I know 

I really want to use LHS and RHS for up and down shifts, then sprint for the reverb, but I'm worried I'll try and do it on my bikes without it (yet) and give myself a nasty surprise...:eekster:


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Tom Howard said:


> The reviews say you can use the RHS pod to use the reverb, not control everything from one side. You'd still need to use the LHS one to shift up or down, whichever function you'd moved from the RHS. Pressing the sprint shifter down, raises the upper part of the paddle (traditionally the downshift (harder gear) lever. so if you did push it with your thumb, that rocker means it presses the sprint shifter down too (as well as raising the upshift part). 3 contact points, 2 buttons/functions.


I see, well I understood after watching a video.

For me, I don't need a sprint button (I'm no Nino!) but a bail out downshift gear. It looks like when you are going fast in a higher gear and slam in to a hard hitting climb and stand up, you can bump your pointer finger knuckle on the front side of the AXS shift controller, and this actually 'pushes' the top of the front toggle switch. So as long as I program the top of the back (faces rider) toggle switch to be my downshift button, I'll indeed get a downshift. I miss a few climbs here and there because I can't get in to that lower gear when I need to. Basically I was too late on the downshift cause I didn't know where I was going and I was moving fast in a high gear and couldn't get the shift done when I wasn't putting a lot of torque in to the cranks.

Now pushing the top button for a downshift is backwards from how all shifters are now, which have the downshift lever on the bottom instead. Not sure if this change will bother me, or maybe even be helpful?

Will the standard Type 2 Clutch in the AXS deal with oval front chainrings? Now that I think about it, maybe the oval chainring is the source of my persistent if slight, Eagle shifting problems?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Pedalon2018 said:


> Up to the point Shimano announced their failings. they were going to release an 11 speed cassette with the 12 speed spacing. Still need the new derailure. Now I do not know if and when that 11 cassette will ever be released.


The 11 speed, 450% range XTR using a lighter cassette and smaller and lighter medium cage derailer, combined with 2 teeth smaller front chain rotor for more anti-squat and more weight savings and a smaller chain, really seems like the ideal solution to me. Too bad it was cancelled.

I do use the 50T on my Eagle, but most of the time I can get bike in 2nd gear anyways. It's so low you have no momentum which comes with it's own difficulties. And I only grab 11-12th on a very few road sections so don't really care about having that much top speed.

500% range is cool but is more than I can utilize.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Suns_PSD said:


> ... maybe the oval chainring is the source of my persistent if slight, Eagle shifting problems?


With the rear wheel off the ground, turn you crank and observe how much the RD cages moves as the crank rotates. It should have very little if any movement. The chain goes 1/2 way around the ring so always sees the same number of ring teeth.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Very thorough run down from GMBN here.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

David R said:


> Wonder how it handles multiple quick shifts in a row? I've always been a bit rough with my drivetrain, even more so thanks to 1x and the need to often rapidly move up/down the cassette, and that's my main reason for sticking with Shimano 11sp at the moment. I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up if I can't grab a "thumbfull" of gears when I hit a steep pinch.


You may want to start reading actual riding reviews. They're off the charts!!! You can set up the controller to shift one gear at a time, two gears or keep shifting until you let off the controller. And reviews are saying it shifts perfectly even under load. I've had eTap on my road bike for over a year and it's incredible, AXS is even better, faster and shifts better under load with zero problems. SRAM said Nino shifts 20% more with AXS. This system just changed the game exponentially. "I'm not sure I'd be happy with this set up" is laughable. No, you wouldn't be happy...you'd be out of your skin ecstatic. Only hard part is the price. Once you have it you will NEVER..EVER...EVER even consider going back. It will transform your riding experience. Without question.


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

Its honestly so predictable and tireing to hear all the “wasted money” comments every time a higher end product is released. In every hobby that is about complely discretionary expenditures there is always a high end that is almost fetish like.

Mountian biking is getting more expoensive, but it is still a pretty accessible way to enjoy the benefits of an amazing entry level product and a bleeding edge product. Try doing that with cars, motorcycles, pianos etc.

Do you need the AXS tech to ride, nope. Is it expensive, yep. Does that mean its crap? Of course not. The fact that people are shifting more means they are able to stay in the powerband more of the time (think dual clutch tech in cars). For the pros this could be the difference between a podium finish or not. For the rest of us, it might just mean we are a little faster and enjoy perfectly timed shifts every time.

Perhaps we are able to shift sooner out of a corner as we are able to quickly shift right after the apex? That might not be a benefit to many riders, but some people will just love that efficiency.

But the reality is, bikes will become increasingly linked to data (shifting, pedaling, shocks) and it will make many riders much faster and for some increase the challenge. I have seen this first hand in cars. Data at the track is the difference between winning and losing. You need the talent, and you need to put in the hours, but the data gives you the math.

For some this will be amazing, others will be horrified and won’t use it.
There’s room for both views


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

Dude...you nailed it!
You bring up a really great point...increased shifting and staying the powerband. Huge! 
A buddy of mine ran into the SRAM team in Feb in Scottsdale when they were announcing Eagle AXS and they told him Nino shifts 22% more with Eagle AXS. 
Let people whine...I mean I guess suspension forks aren't necessary either but everybody has them. 
As soon as people try electronic shifting they'll want it immediately and never look back. 
My Eagle AXS is on order and was supposed to be here next week but shipping for SRAM has been delayed. It's killing me.



BlackPenquinn said:


> Its honestly so predictable and tireing to hear all the "wasted money" comments every time a higher end product is released. In every hobby that is about complely discretionary expenditures there is always a high end that is almost fetish like.
> 
> Mountian biking is getting more expoensive, but it is still a pretty accessible way to enjoy the benefits of an amazing entry level product and a bleeding edge product. Try doing that with cars, motorcycles, pianos etc.
> 
> ...


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

BlackPenquinn said:


> For the rest of us, it might just mean we are a little faster


You make good points and i'm not trying to get into a huge argument or anything like that, but this bit I just don't understand. I see this so much, especially in the roadie world.
For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

It's simple for me. It's cool and I like cool stuff. Why does anyone need to judge that? SRAM develops and sells it. I decide if I buy it. Why does anyone else need to care? Should I care that you buy what you buy? Makes no sense other than people have mental issues that manifest themselves in these stupid arguments. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

bogeydog said:


> It's simple for me. It's cool and I like cool stuff.


This. Mine should arrive tomorrow.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> You make good points and i'm not trying to get into a huge argument or anything like that, but this bit I just don't understand. I see this so much, especially in the roadie world.
> For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?


The benefit of going faster is to improve your body. As I aged, pushing big gears up big grades are over for me. The closer the gears the faster I can accelerate. The faster I go, I become more fit. And the benefit of keeping the whole deal fresh is priceless.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Pedalon2018 said:


> The benefit of going faster is to improve your body. As I aged, pushing big gears up big grades are over for me. The closer the gears the faster I can accelerate. The faster I go, I become more fit. And the benefit of keeping the whole deal fresh is priceless.


I meant what's the benefit of going faster for "free", not because of improved fitness. If you go faster because of more expensive equipment, how does that improve your body? Or did I misunderstand you? :aureola:

I'm not judging anyone, i'm just trying to understand people better. :cornut:


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

HollyBoni said:


> For someone that is not actually racing, why is it beneficial to be faster? If you save 10 seconds because of better equipment on your local singletrack loop, do you get more out of your ride, do you have more fun, or what's the actual benefit?


Fair question. The honest answer is it wont be for many riders. Your enjoyment level and the stopwatch don't always agree.

But, I think the efficiency and "feel" of it will be a major benefit for people. I think they will make the right combinations of skill, speed and shifting a few times a ride, at specific parts of the trail, and it will all just "click". For many the feeling of it all just "clicking" might be worth it.

I think AXS will create a more dialed in experience. All those tiny tenths of a second here and there add up to a more telepathic experience, and for some riders that has real value. For others, not so much.

At this point AXS is a luxury item. Its bleeding edge for our sport (Though arguably still pretty low tech), and like all new enthusiast tech, there's a law of diminishing returns. It's nearly impossible to justify if your aren't a pro.

But for those that can easily spend the money, it's available. The good news is the bike business does trickle down tech. So it will be more affordable soon.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The cost arguement always comes up when new tech is released for bicycles. It's just jealousy, plain and simple and unfortunate that they don't recognize that the trickle down effect will (and already has on their current ride) benefit them greatly as well. One of the most hilarious moments for me was in the comments section on PB after a $8k bike review, 1 grown man during an avalanche of price complaints exclaimed 'how am I ever going to buy 1 or these for each of my 3 kids? It's not fair!' with not a hint of irony. Ignore these people as they will always resent those that have more, ignoring intelligence, work ethic, delayed gratification, priorities and all the other things that made it possible. 

Any updates on AXS components being for sale as i'm ready to purchase?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

BlackPenquinn said:


> Fair question. The honest answer is it wont be for many riders. Your enjoyment level and the stopwatch don't always agree.
> 
> But, I think the efficiency and "feel" of it will be a major benefit for people.


Yeah, i'd buy it for the feel, and because I like geeking out on stuff and it's interesting, it simply works better etc. I just didn't really understand the being faster part.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

It’s not necessarily about just going faster. It’s about pedaling efficiency, always having a great cadence and the unbelievable ease of shifting gears. Perfect shifts. Every. Time. I know most people are going to say shifting with mechanical isn’t that hard or takes that much effort. It’s about like tapping an app on your iPhone. It’s that easy. They haven’t tried shifting with electronic. When you do you will be amazed at the ease and the minimal throw an electronic shift requires. It’s effortless. Once you try it you’ll see how much more effort mechanical takes even with new housing, cable and well lubed. The hardest part to swallow is the cost. The performance is unparalleled. Cars used to have stiff clutches and a shifter. Now they have paddle shifters and no physical clutch. It’s progress. I could go on and on. Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you’ll buy it immediately. Without question.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

JuanGrande said:


> ...Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you'll buy it immediately. Without question.


I can certainly afford it, but won't have it on my bike. Same is true on road bikes where I have ridden both Di2 and eTap a fair amount and where with an FD it would be significantly more consequential. There's no question about the ease and perfection of shifting, it's just not what I want. If I was competitive at racing, I'd consider it.

If I'm turning the rear wheel solely by my effort, I want to move the derailleur solely by my effort. Yeah, they're different things and will be viewed differently by different riders, but that's how I view it. And I haven't yet had to delay a ride because I'd forgotten to put my bike on the charger.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

JuanGrande said:


> It's not necessarily about just going faster. It's about pedaling efficiency, always having a great cadence and the unbelievable ease of shifting gears. Perfect shifts. Every. Time. I know most people are going to say shifting with mechanical isn't that hard or takes that much effort. It's about like tapping an app on your iPhone. It's that easy. They haven't tried shifting with electronic. When you do you will be amazed at the ease and the minimal throw an electronic shift requires. It's effortless. Once you try it you'll see how much more effort mechanical takes even with new housing, cable and well lubed. The hardest part to swallow is the cost. The performance is unparalleled. Cars used to have stiff clutches and a shifter. Now they have paddle shifters and no physical clutch. It's progress. I could go on and on. Just go try them at your LBS and see for yourself. If you can afford it, you'll buy it immediately. Without question.


 A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

If all I cared about was smoothness and ease I ride an eBike.

I simply do not want electronics, batteries, and a motor integrated into my bike. 

Especially not to solve a problem I do not have.

I guess we all love the sport for our own reasons.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

kapusta said:


> If all I cared about was smoothness and ease I ride an eBike.
> 
> I simply do not want electronics, batteries, and a motor integrated into my bike.
> 
> ...


I can dig this perspective. Sincerely. 
Do you leave your phone home as well?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

Lone Rager said:


> I can certainly afford it, but won't have it on my bike. Same is true on road bikes where I have ridden both Di2 and eTap a fair amount and where with an FD it would be significantly more consequential. There's no question about the ease and perfection of shifting, it's just not what I want. If I was competitive at racing, I'd consider it.
> 
> If I'm turning the rear wheel solely by my effort, I want to move the derailleur solely by my effort. Yeah, they're different things and will be viewed differently by different riders, but that's how I view it. And I haven't yet had to delay a ride because I'd forgotten to put my bike on the charger.


Haha that's hilarious. I've been riding eTap for nearly 18 months and not once have I had to delay a ride because my battery was dead nor had it been a problem in the middle of a ride. The batteries have massive battery life and a charge typically lasts a month or more. Thanks for sharing your opinion but your battery argument was extremely weak.

Being competitive at racing has nothing to do with it enjoying it. It's cool tech just like a suspension fork and carbon. Lots of people drive Porsche's that aren't race car drivers. It's called enjoying the fruits of your labor but by all means you stick with mechanical if that's your thing.

Have fun pushing those gears, replacing housing, lubing cables as well as adjusting your derailleur. All things electronic shifting NEVER need. I'm assuming you still use a rigid fork.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

JuanGrande said:


> I'm assuming you still use a rigid fork.


Rattling your brains out, getting wrist and shoulder pain is a bit different than pushing a mechanical lever.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I can dig this perspective. Sincerely.
> Do you leave your phone home as well?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


What does that have to do with my bike?


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.


Paddle shift is not a "Slush Box", that term started because of the torque converter style automatic transmissions, filled with fluids. They are a wholly different animal.

Most performance oriented paddle shifted cars now use use dual clutch transmissions. These cars ARE progress, the performance numbers clearly prove that. Humans cant perform perfect shifts in milliseconds.

Now, does that mean progress is more fun? Depends on what you are doing, in a race yes. On a back road, not always. My race car had a sequential transmission with straight cut gears. Flat shift on the way up, heel toe on the way down, the best of both worlds. That cost me 15k, so AXS seems like a bargain 

Having said that, the joy of heel towing and matching a rev with a wonderful manual transmission is in no way similar to the pedestrian act of pushing a bike shift lever. There is no art or joy in that.

Bikes are almost "paddle shift" at the moment, why not just make them even faster at shifting and put the joy into spinning the right gear at the exact right moment you want?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

kapusta said:


> What does that have to do with my bike?


Can you see in the dark? How do you know how far you've been? Point is plenty of people who bemoan electricity (be it ebikes or electronic gears/suspension/seatposts) will happily use lights or a garmin, or a phone to enhance/enable their rides. Plus a lot of the 'tech' on bikes now is far more advanced than what you find on an RC car, and people lap it up, because it's not electric, so more pure somehow.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Tom Howard said:


> Can you see in the dark? How do you know how far you've been? Point is plenty of people who bemoan electricity (be it ebikes or electronic gears/suspension/seatposts) will happily use lights or a garmin, or a phone to enhance/enable their rides. Plus a lot of the 'tech' on bikes now is far more advanced than what you find on an RC car, and people lap it up, because it's not electric, so more pure somehow.


What is your point? What you are going on about is between you and whoever you had that argument with. Nothing to do with me.

Who said I am anti-electricity?

I've got nothing against eBikes or eShifting. If it serves a utilitarian purpose I am open to them on a utility bike (may even do an electric conversion on my commuter this summer)

But I find them inelegant, uninteresting, and somewhat at odds with what I find compelling in the sport, which is in part leaving that stuff behind as much as possible.

But it has nothing to do with "high tech" vs "low tech".

Of course I am aware that a ton of tech (and computational power) goes into the bike I ride. But the results are mechanical solutions which I find very elegant. I like working with them, understanding them, maintaining them and modifying them That's part of why I love doing this.

As you said, I can't ride in the dark without a light, so I use one. Having my phone with me is good for emergencies and talking pictures, and perhaps finding my way if I don't have a map. So I take it.

So what?

Just because I don't want power assistance and computer electronics in every last nook and cranny of my life and passion does not mean I need to be Amish.

If eShifting floats your boat, get it. No argument here.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

TwoTone said:


> A slush box in a car is not progress, don't confusion them.


Really? Don't tell Ferrari that...they have paddle shifting in ALL of their cars and are known to have BY FAR best the best shifting system in the car business. All high end manufacturers have a similar system as do Formula 1 race cars so I guess they consider it progress.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

HollyBoni said:


> Rattling your brains out, getting wrist and shoulder pain is a bit different than pushing a mechanical lever.


It's all advancement and progress. You're just picking and choosing what you're in favor of. Racers have been using Di2 since 2009 and they use it because the top guys in the world use the best technology. Price isn't an issue. 
Someday when you get electronic shifting you'll see how much effort it takes to shift a mechanical shifter versus the effortlessness of an electronic shifter. You barely tap the controller and you get quick perfect shifts. Every. Time. Who wouldn't want that?
Stick with what you want but don't try to convince it's not better and an advancement.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

The AXS Eagle has landed! Pre-sales already up for motobecane's carbon AXS for $3600.

Save Up to 60% Off LTD QTYS *ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these SRAM AXS Eagle Wireless shifting 5.5 INCH/ 140mm Travel Carbon Fiber Full Suspension 27+ Boost Mountain bikes Carbon Fiber*ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these 5.5 INCH/ 140mm 

What do you think of the geo?


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

kapusta said:


> Just because I don't want power assistance and computer electronics in every last nook and cranny of my life and passion


Its funny, I'm pro AXS but don't like eBikes on trails. It's such a personal thing. For me the logic is simple, I ride bikes because they are mechanical experiences. The motor ruins that for me. i like my power multiplication to come from gears, not batteries.

But I feel like an electric shift is not making the bike any less mechanical. Its still just a mechanical gear being pushed by my legs


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

BlackPenquinn said:


> Its funny, I'm pro AXS but don't like bikes on trails. It's such a personal thing. For me the logic is simple, I ride bikes because they are mechanical experiences. The motor ruins that for me. i like my power multiplication to come from gears, not batteries.
> 
> But I feel like an electric shift is not making the bike any less mechanical. Its still just a mechanical gear being pushed by my legs


Sure, that is perfectly reasonable. To be fair, this is all pretty subjective. Some folks balk at eBikes, some at electronics like eShifting, some at suspension, some at gears, some at shuttling....

I cannot give any logical reason why eShifting should rub anyone else besides me the wrong way (nor do I want it to). I have my own sense of aesthetics for my enjoyment of the sport, but we don't all do this for all the some reasons.

I probably should have kept my _"Get off my lawn!"_ commentary to myself.

It is good when new toys make people happy.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

westernmtb said:


> The AXS Eagle has landed! Pre-sales already up for motobecane's carbon AXS for $3600.
> 
> Save Up to 60% Off LTD QTYS *ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these SRAM AXS Eagle Wireless shifting 5.5 INCH/ 140mm Travel Carbon Fiber Full Suspension 27+ Boost Mountain bikes Carbon Fiber*ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these 5.5 INCH/ 140mm
> 
> ...


So why exactly would I pay $3600 for that drive train when I can get it for $2000 elsewhere. The geometry on that frame is horribly dated.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

kapusta said:


> I probably should have kept my _"Get off my lawn!"_ commentary to myself.


Haa!
My post should have read eBikes, not bikes. gotta fix that.

The great thing about bikes today is there are so many ways to do it, so we can all find our own way. No need to get off your lawn


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

JuanGrande said:


> It's all advancement and progress. You're just picking and choosing what you're in favor of.


You're a bit mistaken, I have absolutely nothing against AXS and I would run it if I could afford it. The sus fork example was just a bit too much. :lol: A suspension fork was a much much bigger improvement. Again, actual physical pain vs a lever that's harder to push. Switching to a suspension fork from a rigid fork can completely change how and where you can ride your bike, while electronic shifting is just more convenient (or less convenient if you're afraid of electronics) and slightly easier to use. 
Yes it's an advancement but it's not that big of a deal as some people make it to be. The racer argument again... Yeah racers use it. So what? First of all, i'm pretty sure most of them ride whatever their sponsor puts on their bike. Their entire life is about training to be the fastest they can be and they're looking for marginal gains. But most of us on this forum are not racers i'm guessing.

Do you take performance enhancing drugs so you're the fastest when you go out riding for fun with your buddies? :lol: You know, some racers do it after all. Do you train full time? Etc...


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

> Do you take performance enhancing drugs so you're the fastest when you go out riding for fun with your buddies?


Caffeine? Sure, bucketfuls...


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Keep it "on-topic" guys.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Penny said:


> Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.


Should have mine Tuesday.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

bogeydog said:


> Should have mine Tuesday.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


How'd you order it?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Penny said:


> Anyone have an update on when we might see these in stock? Many sites sits mid-March, some say April.


 UK disti was saying they would ship w/c 4/3 for the reverb, w/c 11/3 for XX1 and w/c 25/3 for X01, and was showing as in stock on monday (for the stuff that should have been instock). I ordered a reverb and XX1 pretty much on release day, but nothing has arrived at the LBS yet


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Penny said:


> How'd you order it?


Probikesupply, speak to Mark. I preordered it long ago.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

bogeydog said:


> Probikesupply, speak to Mark. I preordered it long ago.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Sweet, I ordered online right when it was launched. I'll follow up with the shop. Can't wait to get it set up.

edit- Called the shop and they're shipping to me next week.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

A big shiny box has just arrived at my LBS :-D


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Tom Howard said:


> A big shiny box has just arrived at my LBS :-D


Nice O:
Let us know how the AXS really is.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> Nice O:
> Let us know how the AXS really is.


Hopefully installing mine tonight

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Is an upgrade kit available or not yet?


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## gorgebiker (Jan 26, 2015)

At the Sedona bike festival was told the upgrade kit will not be available until sometime during the summer. Played with the model they had there. Was really sweet. Very impressed.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Is this a marketing trick?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> Is this a marketing trick?


huh?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Tom Howard said:


> huh?


I mean, the whole group is available but the upgrade kit isnt!


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> I mean, the whole group is available but the upgrade kit isnt!


Not yet, but it will be. Some german sites are already selling separates (breaking the GS down themselves)


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I see, is it possible to name some, cause i'm looking for one set?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> I see, is it possible to name some, cause i'm looking for one set?


Typically, now I've gone to look, they've either sold out or SRAM have had a quiet word. Nothing coming up


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Np, thanks anyway 👌


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

im not going mad, promise. the link is below, but nothing behind it anymore. basically they were offering the mech, shifter and battery/charger for 1250EUR. which is cheaper than the full GS, but a bit ridiculous IMO

https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-X01-Eagle-AXS-Essential-Kit-1x12_1


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

r2 can't ship sram to the usa


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Tom Howard said:


> im not going mad, promise. the link is below, but nothing behind it anymore. basically they were offering the mech, shifter and battery/charger for 1250EUR. which is cheaper than the full GS, but a bit ridiculous IMO
> 
> https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-X01-Eagle-AXS-Essential-Kit-1x12_1


Thankssss


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

alexbn921 said:


> r2 can't ship sram to the usa


No but it shows that retailers are thinking about splitting the group themselves. If an EMEA retailer can do it, so can NA. If SRAM lets them...


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I saw this last night. They're calling it the essential kit. So this is the first price I've seen for just the derailleur. They had a delivery date on it that they've taken down. It was for April. So who knows at this point. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRE-ORDER-...726257?hash=item34024a58f1:g:wmwAAOSwotZcXZ2Q


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

That's too rich for me. Was hoping to get in closer to $1k.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Rode some rocky rooty ready coast single track today. AXS worked great. Very happy. Better then I thought. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

bogeydog said:


> Rode some rocky rooty ready coast single track today. AXS worked great. Very happy. Better then I thought.


Can you make a comparison to the normal X01 or XX1 Eagle?
I really like my X01 Eagle. Best drivetrain I ever had.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> Can you make a comparison to the normal X01 or XX1 Eagle?
> I really like my X01 Eagle. Best drivetrain I ever had.


I think as smooth but with added quickness and exactness.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

bogeydog said:


> Rode some rocky rooty ready coast single track today. AXS worked great. Very happy. Better then I thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Keep your day job cause product reviews are not your forte! Lol

Any additional detail you can provide? Shifting under load is my primary interest.

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

OneTrustMan said:


> Can you make a comparison to the normal X01 or XX1 Eagle?
> I really like my X01 Eagle. Best drivetrain I ever had.


I understand your feelings about the Eagle X01 but.....until you live with an electric shift system, you cannot fully appreciate the near perfect driveline they can provide. I am waiting for a blip Box for my 12 speed set up but have owned Red eTap for three years and Di2 for two years. Only the Fat bike is a cable pull deal. I am never going back. Yes the AXS is way more money than it should be but....I long forgot the silly money I paid for eTap. Crank, bottom bracket, two chainrings, two different cassettes,two derailures, blip box, blip buttons, extra batteries and shifters. So it is on to the 12 speed - electric.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> Keep your day job cause product reviews are not your forte! Lol
> 
> Any additional detail you can provide? Shifting under load is my primary interest.
> 
> ...


I do not have my AXS ready to roll but both the ETap and Di2 shift under load at both ends of the bike without any issues at all. It is one of the electric's advantage. I am sure the newest system is at least as good if not better.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Keep your day job cause product reviews are not your forte! Lol
> 
> Any additional detail you can provide? Shifting under load is my primary interest.
> 
> ...


There issue much more to say other than it works really well. Shifts under load worked too. Maybe a little less ratcheting than non AXS. Any specific questions?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm curious about the custom configurations. I've been hoping it isn't just two canned ones, but perhaps whatever the user wants. Like 3 fast clicks for the whole cassette, or 2 clicks to jump a number of cogs. 
I'm so anxious to get this. I'm still on Shimano Dual Control.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Gregg K said:


> I'm curious about the custom configurations. I've been hoping it isn't just two canned ones, but perhaps whatever the user wants. Like 3 fast clicks for the whole cassette, or 2 clicks to jump a number of cogs.
> I'm so anxious to get this. I'm still on Shimano Dual Control.


You can choose which what the paddle does. Upshift and downshift, how many gears 1, 2 or 3 at a time.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Gregg K said:


> I'm curious about the custom configurations. I've been hoping it isn't just two canned ones, but perhaps whatever the user wants. Like 3 fast clicks for the whole cassette, or 2 clicks to jump a number of cogs.
> I'm so anxious to get this. I'm still on Shimano Dual Control.


Pretty sure you only have 2 buttons. The third one is simply the backside of the top switch.

So since you need to be able to shift 1 gear up and 1 gear down, you have to make the buttons do that. Maybe you can make the downshift button drop 2 with every push and be happy with that?

Whatever you make the top button do, that's what the front switch is going to do as well. If your top button is programmed to initiate 1 downshift, well the switch on the front side is also going to initiate 1 downshift.

I wish the front button wasn't connected to anything else and could be programmed to do a totally different function, like 3 downshifts for when you have to stand and grind out an unexpected climb.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Pretty sure you only have 2 buttons. The third one is simply the backside of the top switch.
> 
> So since you need to be able to shift 1 gear up and 1 gear down, you have to make the buttons do that. Maybe you can make the downshift button drop 2 with every push and be happy with that?
> 
> ...


This is exactly how it is.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I got to ride a bike with AXS on it at a demo fair this last weekend. It was honestly an amazing setup. The way the bike shifts under full load is amazing. It just overall shifts like absolute butter. I was trying to trip it up by proving high, yet inconsistent loads while shifting and each and every time it just slotted into gear like a bolt action rifle. A lot of times, I had to look down to see if it had shifted because it was so smooth I couldn't really tell. I can't wait until you can buy the shifter/cassette separately... this will for sure end up on my bike.


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## The_Trail_Also_Rises (May 2, 2006)

Nice! Did you get a chance to test the AXS Reverb post?



minimusprime said:


> I got to ride a bike with AXS on it at a demo fair this last weekend. It was honestly an amazing setup. The way the bike shifts under full load is amazing. It just overall shifts like absolute butter. I was trying to trip it up by proving high, yet inconsistent loads while shifting and each and every time it just slotted into gear like a bolt action rifle. A lot of times, I had to look down to see if it had shifted because it was so smooth I couldn't really tell. I can't wait until you can buy the shifter/cassette separately... this will for sure end up on my bike.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

minimusprime said:


> I got to ride a bike with AXS on it at a demo fair this last weekend. It was honestly an amazing setup. The way the bike shifts under full load is amazing. It just overall shifts like absolute butter. I was trying to trip it up by proving high, yet inconsistent loads while shifting and each and every time it just slotted into gear like a bolt action rifle. A lot of times, I had to look down to see if it had shifted because it was so smooth I couldn't really tell. I can't wait until you can buy the shifter/cassette separately... this will for sure end up on my bike.


You mean Shifter and derailleur...right?
Other than that great review. Thanks.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Today I did a XC/ trail type ride with my wife and I noticed that whenever I down shifted my Eagle I was holding the shifter down to get exactly 2 down shifts and very rarely went for 1 downshift. That it was so natural, surprised me. Generally climbs in Central TX area are abrupt and tough. I suppose if I did more long slow road climbs I'd be more often just dropping 1 gear.

I don't know if AXS will double shift on a long hold. But if not, heck even if it will, I'd program my AXS to bang out 2 downshifts with 1 button push. A long hold would be great if it did 4 gear downshifts.

Take my $ SRAM!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

Any particular reason why riders on the EWS are still not using AXS? Di2 doesn't seem to have any users either.

Schurter, meanwhile, seems to have no problem with it at the Cape Epic.

https://marathonmtb.com/2019/03/15/bike-check-nino-schurters-scott-spark-for-the-2019-cape-epic/


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Verbl Kint said:


> Any particular reason why riders on the EWS are still not using AXS? Di2 doesn't seem to have any users either.
> 
> Schurter, meanwhile, seems to have no problem with it at the Cape Epic.
> 
> https://marathonmtb.com/2019/03/15/bike-check-nino-schurters-scott-spark-for-the-2019-cape-epic/


I would imagine trail side repairability. There was an interview with Rude a while back and if he was in serious contention he and his teammates would pack an extra brake, derailleur, cables, etc.

Schurter is in a different situation. Anything that requires a cable or derailleur change goes wrong and his chances of winning are 0. Enduro guys can repair and hustle to make the next cut off time between stages.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> I would imagine trail side repairability. There was an interview with Rude a while back and if he was in serious contention he and his teammates would pack an extra brake, derailleur, cables, etc.
> 
> Schurter is in a different situation. Anything that requires a cable or derailleur change goes wrong and his chances of winning are 0. Enduro guys can repair and hustle to make the next cut off time between stages.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I'd think it would be easier to replace a wireless derailleur than one with a cable. I'd imagine that for the little bit of shifting the EWS guys are doing during the timed segments of the stage that the performance gain isn't worth it. Can you imagine if you went down just right and knocked the battery off the rear derailleur? Good luck finding it in the mud or loam. Granted I'd like to think that the engineers at SRAM have thought of that, but I can see plenty of people still assuming that it will be an issue. Personally, I'm just waiting for SRAM to take my money already.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

scatterbrained said:


> I'd think it would be easier to replace a wireless derailleur than one with a cable. I'd imagine that for the little bit of shifting the EWS guys are doing during the timed segments of the stage that the performance gain isn't worth it. Can you imagine if you went down just right and knocked the battery off the rear derailleur? Good luck finding it in the mud or loam. Granted I'd like to think that the engineers at SRAM have thought of that, but I can see plenty of people still assuming that it will be an issue. Personally, I'm just waiting for SRAM to take my money already.


That's assuming someone is carrying one, a derailleur, though. There are weird equipment choices all over the EWS due to the rules and nature of the events.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

sam hill had a reverb axs and that was it!


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

*I own Eagle AXS*



minimusprime said:


> I got to ride a bike with AXS on it at a demo fair this last weekend. It was honestly an amazing setup. The way the bike shifts under full load is amazing. It just overall shifts like absolute butter. I was trying to trip it up by proving high, yet inconsistent loads while shifting and each and every time it just slotted into gear like a bolt action rifle. A lot of times, I had to look down to see if it had shifted because it was so smooth I couldn't really tell. I can't wait until you can buy the shifter/cassette separately... this will for sure end up on my bike.


I had Eagle AXS installed on my MTB last Wednesday and thought people should hear what I have to say about its performance.
For a frame of reference I have had Red eTap on my road bike for about a year and a half and I am exremely happy with it. It is a state of the art drivetrain. With that being said Eagle AXS (and I believe the entire AXS line) is NEXT LEVEL!!! eTap has an ever so slight delay in shifting gears but we are talking splitting hairs. AXS is like Formula 1 shifting for your bike. It shifts 2-3x as fast as my eTap and there is no delay, and I mean NONE, in shifting. Sadly, it makes my eTap feel obsolete. Even under full load. You ever so slightly touch the controller and as soon as you do the shift is perfectly executed and engaged. There is no tick tick whatsoever of it trying to settle in a gear. It's as smooth as butter, just shift, and the gear is immediately engaged. You hardly hear it and you do NOT feel it. When I was going downhill or on rougher trail I wasn't even sure it shifted because it's sooooo quiet and the chain is as well. Oh and if you just keep your thumb on the controller it will go through all 12 gears in less than two seconds. IT'S INSANE how good AXS is. I cannot say one bad thing about it other than the cost. It EXCEEDED my expectations big time! I was always fanatical to keep my cables lubed, new and new housing so I had smooth shifting. Even at the absolute best mechanical can ever be it is 3 levels or more behind AXS. You won't realize how much you struggled or the effort was with mechanical shifting until you try AXS. 
Yes, it is expensive. However, if you either have the disposbale income and/or riding is your thing in life...GET AXS!!!! It will blow your freaking mind! This technology is several levels above the next best thing. 
I came from XT M8000 1x, which took 3/4 lb off, and this took another half pound off my bike. 
I don't know what Shimano is working on but they are waaaaaay behind in the drivetrain department as of right now. Probably wishing they had licensed wired electronic shifting to SRAM but they didn't so SRAM came up with eTap and now AXS. Lucky us!
I just can't say enough good things about my experience with AXS right now and I've been riding and racing MTB for over 30 years. In my opinion there is no other drivetrain I'd even consider...wireless and shifts fast AF!
If you get an opportunity to try it on a bike DO IT! However, be prepared for what will happen...right then and there at that moment of time you will want AXS and you will have to have it. So be prepared to figure out how you're going to pay for it becasue you won't be able to get the performance and ease of it out of your head. Riding will never be the same.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> Can you make a comparison to the normal X01 or XX1 Eagle?
> I really like my X01 Eagle. Best drivetrain I ever had.


I wrote a review below. 
There is no comparison. None. AXS is so far above mechanical Eagle it's not even funny and I say that with MASSIVE respect for Eagle. It's a level or two above XTR Di2. AXS is seriously NEXT LEVEL stuff. 
Think F1 shifting for your bike. You may think your Eagle shifts but you ain't seen nothing yet! May be hard to get your brain around it until you actually demo and then you'll get it. And you will HAVE TO have it. It's F'ing insane good!!!


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

Pedalon2018 said:


> I do not have my AXS ready to roll but both the ETap and Di2 shift under load at both ends of the bike without any issues at all. It is one of the electric's advantage. I am sure the newest system is at least as good if not better.


It's waaaaaaaay better. Got it last Wednesday.


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

Sorry, no, it doesn't do that...it does all 12 gears in under 2 seconds. Haha. You can program it the way you mentioned or to keep shifting until you take your thumb off of the controller. Just got it last Wednesday. It's INSANE!


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## JuanGrande (Apr 6, 2015)

All top World Cup riders using Shimano have Di2. AXS will go to any one deemed to have it by the sponsor.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

JuanGrande said:


> I had Eagle AXS installed on my MTB last Wednesday and thought people should hear what I have to say about its performance.
> For a frame of reference I have had Red eTap on my road bike for about a year and a half and I am exremely happy with it. It is a state of the art drivetrain. With that being said Eagle AXS (and I believe the entire AXS line) is NEXT LEVEL!!! eTap has an ever so slight delay in shifting gears but we are talking splitting hairs. AXS is like Formula 1 shifting for your bike. It shifts 2-3x as fast as my eTap and there is no delay, and I mean NONE, in shifting. Sadly, it makes my eTap feel obsolete. Even under full load. You ever so slightly touch the controller and as soon as you do the shift is perfectly executed and engaged. There is no tick tick whatsoever of it trying to settle in a gear. It's as smooth as butter, just shift, and the gear is immediately engaged. You hardly hear it and you do NOT feel it. When I was going downhill or on rougher trail I wasn't even sure it shifted because it's sooooo quiet and the chain is as well. Oh and if you just keep your thumb on the controller it will go through all 12 gears in less than two seconds. IT'S INSANE how good AXS is. I cannot say one bad thing about it other than the cost. It EXCEEDED my expectations big time! I was always fanatical to keep my cables lubed, new and new housing so I had smooth shifting. Even at the absolute best mechanical can ever be it is 3 levels or more behind AXS. You won't realize how much you struggled or the effort was with mechanical shifting until you try AXS.
> Yes, it is expensive. However, if you either have the disposbale income and/or riding is your thing in life...GET AXS!!!! It will blow your freaking mind! This technology is several levels above the next best thing.
> I came from XT M8000 1x, which took 3/4 lb off, and this took another half pound off my bike.
> ...


Wow.

Will purchase as soon as components are available.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Installed mine tonight. Hopefully the snow will melt enough by next week to get out on a ride. First impressions are that this is going to be a game changer and will be on the majority of bikes in 5 years. The only downside I see is how far the derailleur sticks out.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

JuanGrande said:


> I wrote a review below.
> There is no comparison. None. AXS is so far above mechanical Eagle it's not even funny and I say that with MASSIVE respect for Eagle. It's a level or two above XTR Di2. AXS is seriously NEXT LEVEL stuff.
> Think F1 shifting for your bike. You may think your Eagle shifts but you ain't seen nothing yet! May be hard to get your brain around it until you actually demo and then you'll get it. And you will HAVE TO have it. It's F'ing insane good!!!


But, but, but, Sram is sheeet and Shomanshi da best 

Now jokes aside, thanks for your review.
Maybe I will get a chance to demo ride a bike with the AXS.

Still, I don't think I will buy one yet.
There are other upgrades that are more important for me right now.
Like better wheels, coil shock and so on.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Nice review. I have been on eTap for three years and two on Di2. Most folks will still say meh, not for me. I was in that camp till I tried the electrics. Now all in, most folks are not....until they try it for several hours. And this latest version is way too expensive but for those that set priorities differently, it is just numbers on a screen. When I get my blip box, I will be rolling electric 12 too. Ya done good.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Has anyone been able to make head-to-head comparison between AXS and Di2?

The ergonomics and connections are obviously different, but how is it when you compare the shifting performance, is one noticeably faster than the other? Other differences in the performance aspect?


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

JuanGrande said:


> I wrote a review below.
> There is no comparison. None. AXS is so far above mechanical Eagle it's not even funny and I say that with MASSIVE respect for Eagle. It's a level or two above XTR Di2. AXS is seriously NEXT LEVEL stuff.
> Think F1 shifting for your bike. You may think your Eagle shifts but you ain't seen nothing yet! May be hard to get your brain around it until you actually demo and then you'll get it. And you will HAVE TO have it. It's F'ing insane good!!!


Excellent review.
Sometimes I wonder how much better and smoother and faster shifting can get over XX1 Eagle -- I've been blown away since I switched to Sram. It is so so far ahead of the Shimano XTR 11 speed I came off of.
But being as good as you say it may be hard to resist the AXS upgrade once the shifter-derailleur combo become available.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Out of interest, those who've put some miles on now (or at least seen ones that have), how is the oil slick coating on the cassette/chain holding up?

Not had chance to fit mine yet


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## norty_mtb (Oct 23, 2007)

Verttii said:


> Has anyone been able to make head-to-head comparison between AXS and Di2?
> 
> The ergonomics and connections are obviously different, but how is it when you compare the shifting performance, is one noticeably faster than the other? Other differences in the performance aspect?


I have about 4 hrs on Eagle AXS and had xt di2 as well as xtr di2 in the past. The di2 is more intuitive when it comes to shifting. I never hit the wrong button with it. The AXS on the other hand takes some time to get used to the location and shape of the paddle. I've moved the switch up and down and find myself hitting the edge of the paddle often or shifting the wrong way. I'm sure it will become second nature after more time on it. 
Shifting is precise and quick like di2 but the bigger jumps make it seem not as smooth as the di2. They both shift great under load and are spot on.
Is it worth $2k to upgrade over cables? I'd say no mostly because of the ergonomics of it. Some riders will pick it up right away but in tight punchy singletrack, I had to think too much to hit the right part of the shift paddle. The beauty of electronic shifting for me is the thoughtless, ease of shifting when you are tired or in technical terrain with no missed shifts. I feel like I am trying to change my golf swing. It'll take time and reps. I'll report back when I can get on dry trails again.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm ready to buy AXS.

My only question is X01 vs XX1. The money isn't a factor, and I absolutely care about light weight. I've never destroyed a derailer but my Eagle is fairly scuffed up. 

Is the X01 really more impact resistant, or is it just less expensive?

Please advise. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

norty_mtb said:


> I have about 4 hrs on Eagle AXS and had xt di2 as well as xtr di2 in the past. The di2 is more intuitive when it comes to shifting. I never hit the wrong button with it. The AXS on the other hand takes some time to get used to the location and shape of the paddle. I've moved the switch up and down and find myself hitting the edge of the paddle often or shifting the wrong way. I'm sure it will become second nature after more time on it.
> Shifting is precise and quick like di2 but the bigger jumps make it seem not as smooth as the di2. They both shift great under load and are spot on.
> Is it worth $2k to upgrade over cables? I'd say no mostly because of the ergonomics of it. Some riders will pick it up right away but in tight punchy singletrack, I had to think too much to hit the right part of the shift paddle. The beauty of electronic shifting for me is the thoughtless, ease of shifting when you are tired or in technical terrain with no missed shifts. I feel like I am trying to change my golf swing. It'll take time and reps. I'll report back when I can get on dry trails again.


Thanks for the insight! Keen to hear further updates when you gather some more hours on the AXS...

When both/all compared products are already very good, this kind of small details that might tip the scale to one or the other direction, often are "lost" in the reviews if it is not direct head-to-head comparison...

- S


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm ready to buy AXS.
> 
> My only question is X01 vs XX1. The money isn't a factor, and I absolutely care about light weight. I've never destroyed a derailer but my Eagle is fairly scuffed up.
> 
> ...


XX1 has Ti bolts, a carbon mech cage and hollow cranks. XO1 has alu bolts/mech cage and solid cranks. Functionally, that's it. (edit, im not even 100% theres a difference in the cranks anymore)

XX1 does have the oil slick coating though, but that's just cosmetic.

XX1 groupsets ship with a 34t ring, XO1 a 32t.


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

I’m in the same boat. Is the difference mostly just cosmetic? Hmm...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm ready to buy AXS.
> 
> My only question is X01 vs XX1. The money isn't a factor, and I absolutely care about light weight. I've never destroyed a derailer but my Eagle is fairly scuffed up.
> 
> ...


For the non-AXS stuff they are both considered premium tier but for different purposes. One is XC oriented while the other is Enduro oriented. That's why I'm running X01 derailleur and cassette and a XX1 shifter and chain. I would imagine that carries forward.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> For the non-AXS stuff they are both considered premium tier but for different purposes. One is XC oriented while the other is Enduro oriented. That's why I'm running X01 derailleur and cassette and a XX1 shifter and chain. I would imagine that carries forward.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yes, but what makes XX1 "XC" and X01 "Enduro"? Is it because XX1 is less durable or because it's lighter? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

scatterbrained said:


> Yes, but what makes XX1 "XC" and X01 "Enduro"? Is it because XX1 is less durable or because it's lighter? Inquiring minds want to know.


The only real difference in weight is in the rear derailleur and crankset. Those are lighter in the XX1 but theoretically more durable in X01, the rear derailleur undoubtedly is, cranks would depend on person and type of riding if it really mattered.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

tuckerjt07 said:


> , the rear derailleur undoubtedly is,


i wouldnt go that far. the XX1 carbon cage will break if you hit it hard enough. but if you hit XO1 that hard, it might not snap, but it wont be the same shape as pre hit.

XX1 is just hyper optimised, money no object, 'this is the best we can do' type stuff. XO1 is still mega premium, but without the diminishing returns, such as a carbon mech cage and ti bolts, because of that, its a bit heavier, so they market it for somewhat harder use.

Functionally, no one will be able to tell the difference. If anything, its no more than a statement of intent of the bike its fitted to.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

The real weight difference on the derailleur is the XX1 is ...are you ready....12 grams lighter.
Cassete is same weight...just different coating.
Shifter is the same
Cranks are 36 grams difference.....but the lighter XX1 has a 34t and the XO1 has a 32T

So...for the extra $100....you save less than 50 grams (about the same weight as a wet fart)...but you get a colored cassette.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

the mayor said:


> So...for the extra $100....you save less than 50 grams (about the same weight as a wet fart)...but you get a colored cassette.


Wet farts are not pleasant tho.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

HollyBoni said:


> Wet farts are not pleasant tho.


Says you.
Are you a certified fart connoisseur?


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

the mayor said:


> The real weight difference on the derailleur is the XX1 is ...are you ready....12 grams lighter.
> Cassete is same weight...just different coating.
> Shifter is the same
> Cranks are 36 grams difference.....but the lighter XX1 has a 34t and the XO1 has a 32T
> ...


Yes, just under two ounces is not much or is $100. But if you saved 50 grams on each component we use, it starts to add up. The difference for me when I am in a grueling climb, making it to the top is mostly a head thing. I tell my self I have given myself some of the best and lightest equipment available so there is no excuse not to top the mountain. It actual drives me to the top. I am sure several ounces or more really do not make much difference but when I am struggling to continue, it helps me out to think it does.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

the mayor said:


> Are you a certified fart connoisseur?


No, and I didn't even know that was a thing, but now I finally figured out what I want to do with my life.

Thank you!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

the mayor said:


> The real weight difference on the derailleur is the XX1 is ...are you ready....12 grams lighter.
> Cassete is same weight...just different coating.
> Shifter is the same
> Cranks are 36 grams difference.....but the lighter XX1 has a 34t and the XO1 has a 32T
> ...


I'm a WW but that's really nothing. That number is for AXS correct?

I called sram and spoke to a guy, hopefully I don't get him in trouble, but basically he said it's just marketing speak, that XX1 is just as strong as X01.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

HollyBoni said:


> No, and I didn't even know that was a thing, but now I finally figured out what I want to do with my life.
> 
> Thank you!


Well this is embarrassing. Because you see the other day I was having a bowel movement and noticed my scale was right next to me.
.4# was the weight difference, But the scale only counts in .2s.
Now you know.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm a WW but that's really nothing. That number is for AXS correct?
> 
> I called sram and spoke to a guy, hopefully I don't get him in trouble, but basically he said it's just marketing speak, that XX1 is just as strong as X01.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


That is real weights of the AXS


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

HollyBoni said:


> No, and I didn't even know that was a thing, but now I finally figured out what I want to do with my life.
> 
> Thank you!


I will send you a bill for career counseling. You're welcome.
But....a little advice: You better know your $hit


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Well this is embarrassing. Because you see the other day I was having a bowel movement and noticed my scale was right next to me.
> .4# was the weight difference, But the scale only counts in .2s.
> Now you know.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


list that BM in grams.....or you will lose your WW status.


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## henry_i (Nov 24, 2006)

Posting here, hoping that I will get an email notification from this thread as soon as Sram releases the upgrade kit, I can't wait!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I think the price difference between XX1 & X01 when buying components will be minimal. It's $100 difference for the full drivetrain and that includes the upgraded cranks. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Really like the Eagle on my two bikes. Would like to get it when I can reasonably afford it on my XC bike. I crash my long travel bike too much.

A friend is selling his eTap as he ordered AXS as soon as it was announced. WIsh I could buy that off him :lol:


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> Really like the Eagle on my two bikes. Would like to get it when I can reasonably afford it on my XC bike. I crash my long travel bike too much.
> 
> A friend is selling his eTap as he ordered AXS as soon as it was announced. WIsh I could buy that off him :lol:


sidewalk, you can have my Red eTap when I get the AXS parts I need. It will have an 11-25 and a 11-32 cassettes but will not have the shifters or blip buttons as I need them but you get a blip box and both derailures. Keep you posted. I always planned on giving it away but was not sure how. Most likely the crank and chainrings. 50/34. All Red.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> sidewalk, you can have my Red eTap when I get the AXS parts I need. It will have an 11-25 and a 11-32 cassettes but will not have the shifters or blip buttons as I need them but you get a blip box and both derailures. Keep you posted. I always planned on giving it away but was not sure how. Most likely the crank and chainrings. 50/34. All Red.


If he doesn't want them I'll pay shipping.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Pedalon2018 said:


> sidewalk, you can have my Red eTap when I get the AXS parts I need. It will have an 11-25 and a 11-32 cassettes but will not have the shifters or blip buttons as I need them but you get a blip box and both derailures. Keep you posted. I always planned on giving it away but was not sure how. Most likely the crank and chainrings. 50/34. All Red.


I will ENTHUSIASTICALLY take that!


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Note made. Hopefully sooner than later. I think I saw a back up 
.,that noted too. Travel Safe All!


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> If he doesn't want them I'll pay shipping.


So noted!


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Been fitting my XX1 AXS this afternoon. The quality is very good, same as mechanical eagle just with electrics. Was nice to just fit the rear mech and put a shifter on the bar, no need to thread cables. Think I might get a Reverb AXS on order next!


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Rick Draper said:


> Been fitting my XX1 AXS this afternoon. The quality is very good, same as mechanical eagle just with electrics. Was nice to just fit the rear mech and put a shifter on the bar, no need to thread cables. Think I might get a Reverb AXS on order next!


You are so right. I own Di2 too but having no wires/cables at the shifters or derailure(s) made up for lack of adjustability on eTap. Especially with a switcher up front. Cleans up the bike so well. With electric brakes someday, could almost make my bike look like a single speed with 12 in the back.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Pedalon2018 said:


> sidewalk, you can have my Red eTap when I get the AXS parts I need. It will have an 11-25 and a 11-32 cassettes but will not have the shifters or blip buttons as I need them but you get a blip box and both derailures. Keep you posted. I always planned on giving it away but was not sure how. Most likely the crank and chainrings. 50/34. All Red.


So what exactly is different on Red E-tap from AXS?
Are you running Red E-tap currently on a mountain bike?
Is this really an upgrade worth making?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

Is it worth it to spend all that cash for one more gear? On paper, heck no. But on this one bike, I ride crushed hard pack limestone or smooth dirt fast and about 35-40 miles. At my age, I need close ratio cassettes and a double up front which allows me to accelerate faster and helps keeps me in my narrow cadence range. More gears can give you tighter ratios. Campy new 12 has really tight cassettes. So no, not really worth it but it seems we cannot take our cash with us so wth. Lastly, it keeps the whole deal fresh. And after 6 decades of riding, I need that some days.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My AXS arrives next week. My bike is down for some other repairs so I won't be able to report back until the following weekend. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

After reading the glowing reviews here I couldn't stop myself from ordering Eagle AXS. It will be going on my Trek Top Fuel. Will report back once received and installed.


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

soban said:


> After reading the glowing reviews here I couldn't stop myself from ordering Eagle AXS. It will be going on my Trek Top Fuel. Will report back once received and installed.


Great combo; jealous. Please update!


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

zgxtreme said:


> Great combo; jealous. Please update!


Thanks! BTW nice avatar! That's my son's bike


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

soban said:


> Thanks! BTW nice avatar! That's my son's bike


 sold my bike so he could have his for Christmas, waiting patiently to ride with him! Now to fit AXS on it  lol


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## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

How fast can you swap and set up on a different bike. Like is it feasible to have one wheelset, cassette, derailer, and shifter to share between 2 bikes. If this would be a 5-10 min swap between bikes, I’ll be buying one


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## Skyking1231 (May 1, 2018)

GatorXman said:


> How fast can you swap and set up on a different bike. Like is it feasible to have one wheelset, cassette, derailer, and shifter to share between 2 bikes. If this would be a 5-10 min swap between bikes, I'll be buying one


i see what you are getting at.

perhaps if the controller/shifter was held on with a clamp buckle (think of a ski boot).

but you would have to break the chain to get the derailluer off. I wouldn't want to do that all the time, even with the master link thing.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

GatorXman said:


> How fast can you swap and set up on a different bike. Like is it feasible to have one wheelset, cassette, derailer, and shifter to share between 2 bikes. If this would be a 5-10 min swap between bikes, I'll be buying one


If the chainstay lengths are different, or if one bike is full sus and the other is a hardtail that would screw things up. You'd also have the issue of breaking the chain. After you re-use a quick link a few times it gets super loose.

You could use two chains, since to take off the RD you can just take out the pulleys, although that's a bit of a faff. Although I don't know what would happen long term in terms of wear if you used two different chains with the same cassette.


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## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Skyking1231 said:


> i see what you are getting at.
> 
> perhaps if the controller/shifter was held on with a clamp buckle (think of a ski boot).
> 
> but you would have to break the chain to get the derailluer off. I wouldn't want to do that all the time, even with the master link thing.


It looks like shifter screws into standard sram shifter bar clamp to me, but wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't. The chain can be removed under 30 seconds with a set of masterlink pliers ($15).

I just don't see the option to just buy shifter and derailer right now...


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## codytaylor (Sep 3, 2010)

I asked a dealer yesterday when the components would be available to purchase separately and he said June-July and there were no preordering.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

codytaylor said:


> I asked a dealer yesterday when the components would be available to purchase separately and he said June-July and there were no preordering.


Sram told me by phone it would be about 6 weeks if everything goes correctly, earlier this week.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Sram told me by phone it would be about 6 weeks if everything goes correctly, earlier this week.
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


FYI......SRAM uses this calendar.
The rep meant to say 6 fire breathing monkey dogs


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Anyone (ideally in the UK) heard anything on the AXS reverb shipping dates?


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

codytaylor said:


> I asked a dealer yesterday when the components would be available to purchase separately and he said June-July and there were no preordering.


In Canada, my shop is saying they're being told Fall AT THE EARLIEST


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

jon123 said:


> In Canada, my shop is saying they're being told Fall AT THE EARLIEST


That's hilarious. Meanwhile European shops/sites already have them in stock and ready to ship.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

soban said:


> That's hilarious. Meanwhile European shops/sites already have them in stock and ready to ship.


Any links to those sites? I've only seen eBay


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

jon123 said:


> Any links to those sites? I've only seen eBay


German sites only have kits and they can't ship SRAM to the USA.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

It sounds like the sites that may have been selling parts separately were taking the kits apart and selling the pieces individually.

My local shop is installing mine setup this week. I ended up ordering an Eagle Quarq power meter, so will have an extra crank since SRAM isn't currently offering a bundle with a power meter for the MTB bike sets (they do offer this for the road sets). I'll likely put up the included Eagle crank on Ebay.

Really looking forward to getting out on it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Got my retrofit kit installed (it came from a part out) but won't get a ride in tlll probably Friday. 









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

jon123 said:


> Any links to those sites? I've only seen eBay


Well, the e-bay sites I've seen _are_ European. . . you can get a set without the crank from the Netherlands for $200 less than the full groupset here stateside. Tempting. . . . Of course, by the time it shows up you'll likely be able to get parts individually here. Still, I agree that it's frustrating that we can't get partial sets here but they can in Europe. We just went through this crap with XTR. . . Are they selling that much more in Europe than the U.S.?


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## Keithyk (Feb 3, 2016)

Anyone know if the sunrace 11-50 12 speed cassette compatible with eagle AXS? 

Current using Di2, and don’t really wanted to change the driver for a one teeth different 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Keithyk said:


> Anyone know if the sunrace 11-50 12 speed cassette compatible with eagle AXS?
> 
> Current using Di2, and don't really wanted to change the driver for a one teeth different
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 12 spd Sunrace works fine with the normal Eagle so the AXS should work too.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

jon123 said:


> Any links to those sites? I've only seen eBay


PMed


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Will I need a special adapter to mount the Eagle AXS shifter to Sram Ultimate Level brake levers or does it all fit like it should?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

All fits normally


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Tom Howard said:


> All fits normally


thanks ! matchmaker is the word i was looking for. I would assume the AXS shifter is matchmaker compatible.


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## ejh (Apr 1, 2007)

my Yeti ASRc is having XO1 axs installed now, hopefully the snow here in Colorado doesn't hang around long. I did just put Santa Cruz Reserve wheels and the 54 tooth ratchet upgrade too. I can't wait to get out on the trails and give it a workout


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Has anyone found any negatives about AXS yet?

Usually with new components (brakes, drivetrains, suspension, droppers, whatever) there's always some quibbles to write about.

I haven't seen or read ANYTHING even remotely negative about AXS yet. (Price I've heard people mention but I'm not counting that; it's not unreasonable to me)


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

The dropper is heavy.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Sidewalk said:


> The dropper is heavy.


Fair enough... but I was referring to the AXS Eagle drivetrain. 
Specifically: the shifter and derailleur. Shifting in general.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jon123 said:


> Has anyone found any negatives about AXS yet?
> 
> Usually with new components (brakes, drivetrains, suspension, droppers, whatever) there's always some quibbles to write about.
> 
> I haven't seen or read ANYTHING even remotely negative about AXS yet. (Price I've heard people mention but I'm not counting that; it's not unreasonable to me)


 *See Edit Below* The shifter is awful. The buttons are not intuitive, and it's so bulky that you simply can not get it in the correct position. I just spent 2 hours on mine for the 1st time, and there's no doubt it shifts beautifully, but as of right now there's no way I would have bought it knowing what I know now.
*** ON EDIT: I just did some photo research and have realized that I had used my old SRAM bar clamp because the AXS didn't arrive with one. But the AXS specific clamp has additional space to solve all the fitment issues that I'm experiencing. I have contacted my friend that parted out the kit and sold me the retrofit and sure enough he found the correct clamp in a box and is sending it right out. This 'should' correct the issue and solve the only problem I have with AXS.
As far as the improvement in shifting performance, well if you've ever ran an E13 cassette and then moved to Eagle, your familiar with how much smoother the Eagle shifted and operated, it's about that difference from Eagle to AXS. Pretty noticeable.

It's certainly for the rider that's already bought everything else out there to buy, I think it's slick but not going to make you any faster and should be pretty low on the priority list imo.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Has anybody used AXS and XTR m9100 that could compare both?


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> *See Edit Below* The shifter is awful. The buttons are not intuitive, and it's so bulky that you simply can not get it in the correct position. I just spent 2 hours on mine for the 1st time, and there's no doubt it shifts beautifully, but as of right now there's no way I would have bought it knowing what I know now.
> *** ON EDIT: I just did some photo research and have realized that I had used my old SRAM bar clamp because the AXS didn't arrive with one. But the AXS specific clamp has additional space to solve all the fitment issues that I'm experiencing. I have contacted my friend that parted out the kit and sold me the retrofit and sure enough he found the correct clamp in a box and is sending it right out. This 'should' correct the issue and solve the only problem I have with AXS.
> As far as the improvement in shifting performance, well if you've ever ran an E13 cassette and then moved to Eagle, your familiar with how much smoother the Eagle shifted and operated, it's about that difference from Eagle to AXS. Pretty noticeable.
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


That was quite the roller coaster. Glad the ergonomics worked out at the end by using the correct mount. Can you report if the height of the shifter is close to that of a mechanical one? Curious if it will smash on top tubes in event of a crash.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

jon123 said:


> Has anyone found any negatives about AXS yet?
> 
> Usually with new components (brakes, drivetrains, suspension, droppers, whatever) there's always some quibbles to write about.
> 
> I haven't seen or read ANYTHING even remotely negative about AXS yet. (Price I've heard people mention but I'm not counting that; it's not unreasonable to me)


There you go:


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

uzurpator said:


> There you go:


To save everyone 20 minutes: Click bait video headline where a grumpy bald guy is complaining about backwards (and possibly forward) compatibility of electronic groupsets. No mention of how the components perform.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

soban said:


> To save everyone 20 minutes: Click bait video headline where a grumpy bald guy is complaining about backwards (and possibly forward) compatibility of electronic groupsets. No mention of how the components perform.


You left out the part about the dark lighting because he just had his colon scoped....or something.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

soban said:


> No mention of how the components perform.


Now that is not true. I mentioned that they most likely perform admirably. Moreover the question was about general negatives of AXS. Forward/backward compatibility, or lack thereof _is_ a negative of AXS, considering SRAMs track record so far. Might not matter to you, specifically, but it does matter to me.

So - where is the clickbait?

EDIT: btw, if you want to get negatives about performance, send me a set. I _assure_ you that I'll find a laundry list of issues.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

uzurpator said:


> Now that is not true. I mentioned that they most likely perform admirably. Moreover the question was about general negatives of AXS. Forward/backward compatibility, or lack thereof _is_ a negative of AXS, considering SRAMs track record so far. Might not matter to you, specifically, but it does matter to me.
> 
> So - where is the clickbait?
> 
> EDIT: btw, if you want to get negatives about performance, send me a set. I _assure_ you that I'll find a laundry list of issues.


To be fair it's pretty much implied he was asking about negative actual use reviews. Not some opinion piece.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

AXS is nice and besides my shifter issues it does click gears nicely. Not perfect however. One time on a climb I grabbed a bunch of gears and it resisted shifting until I reduced torque and then it shifted cleanly on a steep climb. Very nice. Another time in the same situation (I tried to downshift while already climbing something very steep) it did that thing where it began to throw the chain and I had to stop peddaling to keep from breaking a chain, and I found the chain cockeyed on the higher gears where it wasn't supposed to be. Some things don't change. 

Often (75% of the time) it shifts so quietly and with no change at all in the peddaling feel that i'm not totally convinced it shifted. But it did. 

It's darn good, but the value is still way behind other more effective and less expensive bike mods for me. Oval sprockets, good brakes, modern geo, Pepi's tire noodles, Avalanche tuned Rock Shox suspension, the exact correct tires for your needs, all will have a true and profound effect on your overall speed whereas AXS will not. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> AXS is nice and besides my shifter issues it does click gears nicely. Not perfect however. One time on a climb I grabbed a bunch of gears and it resisted shifting until I reduced torque and then it shifted cleanly on a steep climb. Very nice. Another time in the same situation (I tried to downshift while already climbing something very steep) it did that thing where it began to throw the chain and I had to stop peddaling to keep from breaking a chain, and I found the chain cockeyed on the higher gears where it wasn't supposed to be. Some things don't change.
> 
> Often (75% of the time) it shifts so quietly and with no change at all in the peddaling feel that i'm not totally convinced it shifted. But it did.
> 
> ...


This is similar to reviews I have heard locally. Doesn't seem worth it yet. I can't get over how hideous the shifter looks. It's huge. I also heard separate parts available in the US in July.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> To be fair it's pretty much implied he was asking about negative actual use reviews. Not some opinion piece.


I'm not sure how he can post a nearly 21-minute video about how awful AXS is without ever actually using it.



Suns_PSD said:


> AXS is nice and besides my shifter issues it does click gears nicely. Not perfect however. One time on a climb I grabbed a bunch of gears and it resisted shifting until I reduced torque and then it shifted cleanly on a steep climb. Very nice. Another time in the same situation (I tried to downshift while already climbing something very steep) it did that thing where it began to throw the chain and I had to stop peddaling to keep from breaking a chain, and I found the chain cockeyed on the higher gears where it wasn't supposed to be. Some things don't change.
> 
> Often (75% of the time) it shifts so quietly and with no change at all in the peddaling feel that i'm not totally convinced it shifted. But it did.


This was what I was really interested in - actual use.

I have to admit I'm a little surprised there were some hiccups and it wasn't perfect shifting throughout.

I ended up ordering so we'll see.



Streetdoctor said:


> I can't get over how hideous the shifter looks. It's huge.


Personally I don't see this at all - I think they've done a great job. Very neat/clean looking.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

The paddle looks like dumbo ears to me. Seeing it in person it looks way bigger than necessary and probably easier to break.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Streetdoctor said:


> This is similar to reviews I have heard locally. Doesn't seem worth it yet. I can't get over how hideous the shifter looks. It's huge. I also heard separate parts available in the US in July.


I have to agree.

For a new top of the line bike build and you don't have good parts on hand, yah I'd buy AXS. But for the nearly $1200 I spent to convert from Eagle XX1 (to be fair I can still sell the old parts and get the cost down) the improvement is just too minor. The derailleur with battery weighs more as well and is not in an ideal place. Having the 40g or whatever in a cable throughout the frame rather than having the same weight, but instead placed at the bar end and at the derailleur end just isn't a good trade off.

Eewings provides way more satisfaction, weight savings, and reliability for the same money for example.

And the shifter really isn't cool, it's a rather large lump of plastic in an odd place. Also, I didn't realize how natural choosing the correct number of shifts was with a mechanical, it was effortless. I'm sure I'll adapt in time to the electronic.

The new cable XTR should be looked at as it shifts great reportedly, but it's also lighter.

Just my honest opinion.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

I mostly use 
Blips to shift and I put them exactly where I want them.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I had 3 rides on AXS and decided to sell. Aside from the huge price difference from my 11 speed XTR I had two main issues. 

1. The shift action is very light. Almost too light. In rough terrain, it’s easy to tap too many times or accidentally shift in the wrong direction. I would much prefer the same paddle action and direction as my XT and just have the shifting be a bit lighter. 
2. The derailleur sticks out a couple inches further than my XT. It may be the same as regular Eagle but it’s just too bulky for a $600 piece of equipment. I scraped mine twice in the first two rides while making an extra effort to avoid tight rocks.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

> It may be the same as regular Eagle


i thought it was lower profile than regular eagle? The cage is definitely smaller.

A couple of INCHES wider than XT? the whole unit isn't 2 inches wide, surely?


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Tom Howard said:


> i thought it was lower profile than regular eagle? The cage is definitely smaller.
> 
> A couple of INCHES wider than XT? the whole unit isn't 2 inches wide, surely?


I don't know the exact measurements, but it definitely sticks out noticeably further than Shimano.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I will add that the reports of riders shifting 20% more on AXS seems about right to me. The upshifts are so smooth that I ended up grabing a shift where I otherwise would not have on many occasions. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## enjoi525 (Oct 11, 2013)

Can I run an XTR 12 speed cassette with Eagle AXS?


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

enjoi525 said:


> Can I run an XTR 12 speed cassette with Eagle AXS?


You should be able to. I say that because I know someone who runs XTR M9100 derailleur with SRAM cassette. The cog spacing is identical.


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## enjoi525 (Oct 11, 2013)

Which is the prefered chain Shimano or SRAM?


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## V1Rotate (Jun 29, 2017)

enjoi525 said:


> Which is the prefered chain Shimano or SRAM?


KMC.. or SRAM if I'm forced to choose between your two options


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

enjoi525 said:


> Which is the prefered chain Shimano or SRAM?


The chain should match the cassette, especially if you are going to run a 12sp XTR Shimano cassette. In which case you should also make sure your chainring is compatible with the 12 speed XTR chain.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I got to try out the system at sea otter this weekend. Overall feel was very good. The shifts where fast with no noticeable delay. The ergonomics of the shifter where just okay. The thumb portion was good, but the back and side parts need work. Almost need a more tactile feel too.
Overall it's better, but not worth upgrading too. I would get it for a new build, or if I FUBAR my current setup.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

alexbn921 said:


> I got to try out the system at sea otter this weekend. Overall feel was very good. The shifts where fast with no noticeable delay. The ergonomics of the shifter where just okay. The thumb portion was good, but the back and side parts need work. Almost need a more tactile feel too.
> Overall it's better, but not worth upgrading too. I would get it for a new build, or if I FUBAR my current setup.


I have small hands and I found it really difficult to use the back side button. I'm surprised they settled on this paddle design. I think there is definite room for improvement there.


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## V1Rotate (Jun 29, 2017)

Velodonata said:


> The chain should match the cassette, especially if you are going to run a 12sp XTR Shimano cassette. In which case you should also make sure your chainring is compatible with the 12 speed XTR chain.


Maybe I have bad luck but I've snapped more XTR chains (granted they were all 11 speed) than I would have cared to. I shouldn't be snapping chains with less than 1000 miles on them at 6'1" & 155 kitted up. Since running X01 12 speed Eagle for a while now I've used both the stock X01 eagle chain as well as a KMC X12SL and I can definitely say the KMC not only lasts longer but functionally is exactly the same as the SRAM chain. Wore out the X01 chain in about 500 miles (+.05 out of whack on the checker tool) and the KMC is going strong at 1000+


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

V1Rotate said:


> Maybe I have bad luck but I've snapped more XTR chains (granted they were all 11 speed) than I would have cared to... ...Wore out the X01 chain in about 500 miles (+.05 out of whack on the checker tool) and the KMC is going strong at 1000+


With Eagle it doesn't matter as much, but the new XTR cassette requires the matching chain to make full use of the new Hyperglide+ shifting gates built into the cassette. The guy asking the question had previously mentioned using a XTR cassette with AXS, which seems kind of pointless without the chain.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Penny said:


> I have small hands and I found it really difficult to use the back side button. I'm surprised they settled on this paddle design. I think there is definite room for improvement there.


I have large hands, and agree completely that the paddle design is pretty poorly thought out.

I'm 3 rides in and it's not intuitive yet but I'll keep at it.

Since adding the correct shifter holder it's better, but not intuitive and my ideal position still has clearance issues with my brake lever.

It shifts great, it really does. But my previous xx1 eagle also shifted darn good too.

Oh well.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

At the top is the old Eagle shifter clamp, at the bottom is the AXS specific one. 
This is a significant improvement in the location of my shifter, but it's still not a 100% where I want it, as there are still clearance issues with the brake if I put it exactly where I want it to be.
I think I'll adapt quickly.















Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> At the top is the old Eagle shifter clamp, at the bottom is the AXS specific one.
> This is a significant improvement in the location of my shifter, but it's still not a 100% where I want it, as there are still clearance issues with the brake if I put it exactly where I want it to be.
> I think I'll adapt quickly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


How hard is it to make a split clamp Sram? I hate having to remove everything to install shifters.

Can you overlay the clamps so that we can see the difference in placement?


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## V1Rotate (Jun 29, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> At the top is the old Eagle shifter clamp, at the bottom is the AXS specific one.
> This is a significant improvement in the location of my shifter, but it's still not a 100% where I want it, as there are still clearance issues with the brake if I put it exactly where I want it to be.
> I think I'll adapt quickly.
> 
> ...


If you know a mechanical engineer/drafter/anybody with access to a 3D printer (or have an in with a machine shop) I'm sure you could pretty easily create a new "matchmaker" that gives the exact position you're looking for. Considering it myself


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> How hard is it to make a split clamp Sram? I hate having to remove everything to install shifters.
> 
> Can you overlay the clamps so that we can see the difference in placement?


I think SRAM wants us to use the matchmaker, hence, this handlebar clamp design.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Shadow4eva said:


> I think SRAM wants us to use the matchmaker, hence, this handlebar clamp design.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right, but if they can make an Eagle cassette they can surely design a hinge into the bar clamp so you don't have to remove your grips to install.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

alexbn921 said:


> How hard is it to make a split clamp Sram? I hate having to remove everything to install shifters.
> 
> Can you overlay the clamps so that we can see the difference in placement?


Can't because I had to cut off my glue on grips and glue a new one on. I'll get another ride again tomorrow and continue to get it dialed in.

They should have made the shifter switches arranged identical to the XX1 shifter controller, not sure why they had to mess with this. Previously my thumb went right to the exact spot, now I have to shift my hand out in weird ways so that my thumb can even reach the buttons. Stupid. I'm sure it'll be fine in time.

Seriously, AXS is a want, not a need. There are better ways to spend your cash. If you don't have the absolute best frame for your needs, buy that first. Great wheels, tires, brakes, cranks, etc...all should be looked at first. That's my opinion.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Why won't the existing hinge matchmaker clamp not work?


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

tom tom said:


> Why won't the existing hinge matchmaker clamp not work?


Matchmaker clamp with SRAM brakes is hinged, but if you're using just a SRAM shifter or Reverb remote, those are standalone clamps with no hinges.


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## derek1387 (Oct 13, 2008)

So is the general consensus over cabled XX1 that AXS is a winner? What’s the real world weight savings when dropping cables and housings? Or negligible

Building up a new XC rig and was debating between AXS or XX1 cable.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

derek1387 said:


> So is the general consensus over cabled XX1 that AXS is a winner? What's the real world weight savings when dropping cables and housings? Or negligible
> 
> Building up a new XC rig and was debating between AXS or XX1 cable.


AXS is 5 to 15g less. Shifting is very very good. Shifter is only okay. New build and you got the money, do it. Not worth upgrading to.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

With the cable that came off my bike, I actually get that the AXS is 68 grams lighter all in.
I used the same cassette and chain, so no change there. 
The rear derailleur's (both xx1) weighed exactly the same before I added the battery which made the rear derailleur of AXS 24 grams heavier. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Sorry but AXS is dumb. That's my honest opinion. It doesn't do anything better than a cable Eagle system but it does do several things worse.
One of the very few MTB purchases I've ever regretted. 
And the controller/ shifter well and truly sucks.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> Sorry but AXS is dumb. That's my honest opinion. It doesn't do anything better than a cable Eagle system but it does do several things worse.
> One of the very few MTB purchases I've ever regretted.
> And the controller/ shifter well and truly sucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


DM me with a price if you are willing to sell mech, shifter and charger, and ship to the UK.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Sorry but AXS is dumb. That's my honest opinion. It doesn't do anything better than a cable Eagle system but it does do several things worse.
> One of the very few MTB purchases I've ever regretted.
> And the controller/ shifter well and truly sucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I like it. It isn't a huge difference, but mine shifts exact, doesn't hesitate, makes every shift even under load. However yes the trigger is different and take some getting used to. Sucks, no way. A needed upgrade from Eagle, no. But if I were coming from 1x11, a good choice.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> Sorry but AXS is dumb. That's my honest opinion. It doesn't do anything better than a cable Eagle system but it does do several things worse.
> One of the very few MTB purchases I've ever regretted.
> And the controller/ shifter well and truly sucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


The increased chain wrap on the cassette doesn't help shifting?


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Does anyone know if they just sell the derailleur and shifter separately.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

caRpetbomBer said:


> Does anyone know if they just sell the derailleur and shifter separately.


Not yet, but likely later this year.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

bogeydog said:


> I like it. It isn't a huge difference, but mine shifts exact, doesn't hesitate, makes every shift even under load. However yes the trigger is different and take some getting used to. Sucks, no way. A needed upgrade from Eagle, no. But if I were coming from 1x11, a good choice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Bingo

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive -- I bought it sight unseen -- but I was able to try it out yesterday for the first time. It's superb. Period. Every shift is exact - for someone like me who obsessives over shifting it's a beautiful system.

Personally I really liked the shifter. After reading some of the comments here I was surprised how much I actually liked it. I had always liked the look of it but it felt really nice overall, excellent quality, had a good tactile feel to the shifts themselves, and was very intuitive. And that's without even playing around with the programming.

Mechanical Eagle is phenomenal (by far the best shifting system I've ever used) and I would be totally content using my mechanical XX1/X01 Eagle for the rest of my riding days. I wouldn't buy AXS over say a really great frame, or light wheels, if I didn't' already have those. BUT if you have everything it is a REALLY really nice upgrade. And as bogeydog said, if someone was looking to buy a complete Eagle XX1/X01 groupo then I would highly suggest consider spending the extra for the AXS groupset.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Anyone know what Kate Courtney had issues with at both Sea Otter races? One of the race reports said she had mechanical issues related to shifting. Pinkbike shows her bike outfitted with the new AXS.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm not going to sell my AXS, it's not worth the trouble to remove it and I am getting use to the shifter finally and I had my best ride on it today. Plus just not willing to take a loss.
It just sounds a bit clunky when I shift. It's honestly the first shifter I've ever set up so i'm going to spend some time seeing if I can make it sound better. I struggled to make it sound any different when I tried trimming the rear derailleur when I first installed it. But maybe it's my set up? It seemed less clunky at first. 
I rode my wife's 11 speed yesterday and it shifted so perfectly and she loved how easy the buttons were to push on my AXS. If I don't just love AXS in like another month when I build her new bike I'm going to give her the AXS and just take her 11 speed I think. I like the ground clearance, low weight, and frankly the way it shifted and it's pretty much all the gears I need. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm not going to sell my AXS, it's not worth the trouble to remove
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


You hate it...but you like it?
You thought it shifted incredibly....but now it's clunky?
You thought you were shifting 20% more....have you spun on that too?
Make up your mind...will you?


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## codytaylor (Sep 3, 2010)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm not going to sell my AXS, it's not worth the trouble to remove it


Lol, there is literally no other group that is easier to remove than AXS.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Andy13 said:


> Anyone know what Kate Courtney had issues with at both Sea Otter races? One of the race reports said she had mechanical issues related to shifting. Pinkbike shows her bike outfitted with the new AXS.


She double podiumed, I'm guessing whatever issues she had were minor.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

codytaylor said:


> Lol, there is literally no other group that is easier to remove than AXS.


I'm that lazy! Don't want to put a cable back in, getting my money back out isn't a priority.

No really, I want to experience what others feel and I suspect adjustment has gotten off. It did seem to shift way nicer at first. It's pretty crunchy now. Maybe I expect too much just hammering the cranks while shifting.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

the mayor said:


> You hate it...but you like it?
> You thought it shifted incredibly....but now it's clunky?
> You thought you were shifting 20% more....have you spun on that too?
> Make up your mind...will you?


I'm definitely shifting more. Half the time it was in the wrong direction before but on today's ride it was only like 10% of shifts in the wrong direction. It's beginning to feel more natural.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

There hasn't been much time for people etc to mess with the AXS. Mine is pretty smooth. I think chain length is crucial. I programmed the trigger: up is easier gear, down harder. It takes getting used to. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

the mayor said:


> You hate it...but you like it?
> You thought it shifted incredibly....but now it's clunky?
> You thought you were shifting 20% more....have you spun on that too?
> Make up your mind...will you?


Yea cause nothing every changes with some time on it.


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

I've been running AXS for about two weeks now, with maybe 10 rides on it. I really like it so far. Of course if we're all discussing if the system is a necessary upgrade, it's not. It's definitely nice to have, and given the opportunity and the funds I would have this system on all my bikes. 

It took me about 20 minutes into a ride to get used to the shifter. I don't know why some people are having issues with it but I do agree it could probably be refined in future versions. The adjustment that worked best for me regarding the shifter when setting it up was to rotate it a little farther away from me than I normally do with mechanical shifters. 

Whereas before, I liked to have my shifter rotated in more towards me to compensate for the travel of the shifter trigger when making shifts, the AXS shifter works better and is more comfortable for me rotated out. Since all that's required now is a light push to change gears. 

I'm probably explaining this really poorly. haha. Well anyway, that's how I set mine up. I've literally not had to think about the setup since installing it. It's been through muddy wet trails, and dry dusty conditions. I have not had to make any adjustments. Shifting is crisp, and quick. Not having to deal with cables and housing and adjusting all of that is really nice. Not that any of those maintenance requirements were a big deal, it's just nice not having to think about it anymore. 

Granted, it's only been two weeks and 10 rides but it's a great start so far.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Kate was in the lead pack in both races until she had shifting issues. It was bone dry and non technical. She was on AXS. I would like to know what her issue was, in both races, since AXS is so new and she's the world champion. It may have been completely unrelated to AXS but it would be nice to know. I also think Kate may disagree that it was minor "since she double podiumed". I would think she would have preferred to be in the lead group sprinting for the finish rather than a minute down. No dis intended.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

bogeydog said:


> There hasn't been much time for people etc to mess with the AXS. Mine is pretty smooth. I think chain length is crucial. I programmed the trigger: up is easier gear, down harder. It takes getting used to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I went back and forth on the programming of the shifter switches as neither option felt natural. This led to some of my problems with just learning to shift the thing. 2 rides ago I decided that downshift on the up button was the closest to natural (seriously it's like 55/ 45) plus it had the added benefit of it allowing me to stand on a tough climb and push the button on the back and tag a triple downshift.

2nd full ride in like that and it resulted in far fewer wrong direction shifts.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Spent a good bit of time tinkering and found that my B tension was not optimized and might have even been pretty far off. I suspect this was the cause of my excessively crunchy shifting. It was the first time I ever put effort in to understanding what those driveline adjustment screws really do. 
Sorry SRAM engineer guys that might have cringed at my posts!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> I went back and forth on the programming of the shifter switches as neither option felt natural. This led to some of my problems with just learning to shift the thing. 2 rides ago I decided that downshift on the up button was the closest to natural (seriously it's like 55/ 45) plus it had the added benefit of it allowing me to stand on a tough climb and push the button on the back and tag a triple downshift.
> 
> 2nd full ride in like that and it resulted in far fewer wrong direction shifts.


So are you pushing the button up, to down shift, and pushing it down, to up shift?? Or are you pushing it up, to up shift, and down to down shift?


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

I just read some of the latest posts out of curiosity. I'm surprised by all of the mixed reviews. It seems like both ergonomics and reliability are potential issues. 

Also, I'm not quite on the same page about standard Eagle. I've always found sram mtb shifting to be a bit slow and clunky (as in loud), but reliable. I've never considered it be quiet and smooth, usually the opposite. 

I've found xt to be quieter and smoother (probably because of the small jumps in the first 10 cogs from 11-37). 

It looks like 2018 XTR is the smoothest shifting system out there now. I do like the idea of wireless though if they can work through the bugs.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

tom tom said:


> So are you pushing the button up, to down shift, and pushing it down, to up shift?? Or are you pushing it up, to up shift, and down to down shift?


Pushing up, to downshift. Just cause it's closest to where my old downshift button use to be.
It's silly but I had to create a mnemonic device just to remember which way to shift: 'Slow Up'. Witty I know. 
XTR is apparently very slick shifting, cable or not. The 11 speed 500% wide ratio with a short cage was very appealing to me for it's lower weight and better ground clearance, but then they cancelled that option. I also find the gears too close on a 12 speed generally and very often grab 2 gears.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> XTR is apparently very slick shifting, cable or not. The 11 speed 500% wide ratio with a short cage was very appealing to me for it's lower weight and better ground clearance, but then they cancelled that option.


Fortunately you didn't miss anything, the canceled 11-speed cassette was a 10-45.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

westernmtb said:


> It looks like 2018 XTR is the smoothest shifting system out there now. I do like the idea of wireless though if they can work through the bugs.


Im kinda on the same page as you. I've been getting some crunchy shifts from time to time on "old eagle". But, my chain has some gouges in the rollers and I have a few nasty marks on my cassette. I think my drivetrain has been eating rocks. 9 times out of 10 I get beautiful shifts, just sometimes the worn parts of the cassette and chain line up I think and it makes some noise when it moves cogs.
I want to like XTR m9100, but when I checked it out at the shop I just didn't like the feel of the shifter. Seemed flimsy and very plastic compared to my XX1. I was really unimpressed just by playing with it on the showroom floor.
So I just ordered a rainbow cassette and chain from Europe. I'll stick with mechanical for the time being. At least until that electronic dropper gets cheaper, my goodness. $2800 for a electric groupset and dropper is a tough pill to swallow when you already have Eagle and a nice dropper.


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

Is anyone running AXS with an E13 9-46 cassette?
If so, how does that work?


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

I think the answer is to use Etap blip shifters instead of that hideous dumbo ear thing.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

*XX1 AXS Impressions*

*Background:*
I have always been a Shimano guy. I had XTR M980 (3x9) on my 26er and then moved to XTR M9000 (1x11) on the current build (Trek Top Fuel). The new M9100 didn't intrigue me as much so I decided to try SRAM for once. At first I was going to go XX1 Eagle mechanical but then decided to go all out and get this newly released AXS. I found the cassette+controller+derailleur for $2000 CAD delivered to my door which was good.

I race XC throughout summer so this groupset will be going through some good beating. I will remind myself to leave a proper review by end of season.

*Setup:*
As we all know the setup for AXS is super simple. I watched SRAM's YouTube view multiple times to make sure no detail is missed. I love my oval chain rings so went with the 34T variant from SRAM. I collapsed my shock and measured the chain and measured 3 times before breaking it. B screw adjustment was verified.

I compared the included controller bar mount with matchmaker and ended up using matchmaker. This brings the controller really close to the bar so I don't have to move my thumb much to reach it.

*Impressions:*
I had two races on this setup and completely blown away by the performance. It is buttery smooth on both up-shifts and downshifts. Due to this incredible ease of shifting I find myself shifting a lot more compared to a mechanical setup. This allows me to keep a more consistent cadence and wattage. I managed to shift in scenarios which were simply impossible before eg. Downshift while out the saddle cranking 700+ Watts on a steep rooty climb.

Controller ergonomics are excellent with matchmaker. I do not have to move my thumb much to reach the shifter. Upwards motion to up-shift and downwards motion to downshift. So far no accidental shifts due to bumpy terrain. Even with my slammed stem position, the controller clears the top tube with ease while previous shifters scared it. The "hidden" sprint shifter is excellent and it allowed me to keep shifting and lay down a 1000+ W end of race sprint. Overall I find it intuitive compared to a mechanical level based shifter.

*Final Thoughts:*
I am very happy with the upgrade so far and did not find any negatives. Granted it is silly expensive but it cost me $500 CAD more than a XTRM9100 setup. This is initial impressions in a race situation so a more detailed review is to come at season's end.

Here's a video of shifting:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BwlO8sLBNhw/

Some shots:


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

Have you connected Blip shifters to this?
Do you have pics?
How do the Blips connect to this system? What size/length do you need?
How did you secure the blips to the bar?



Streetdoctor said:


> I think the answer is to use Etap blip shifters instead of that hideous dumbo ear thing.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

soban said:


> View attachment 1248720


Holy crap that is just waiting to get snapped off!


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

DethWshBkr said:


> Holy crap that is just waiting to get snapped off!


its exactly the same as every other SRAM mount. Heard much about them snapping? In any case, id rather the mount breaks than the shifter


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## V1Rotate (Jun 29, 2017)

Yes it sticks out off the bar a bit but given that it's situated basically behind the handlebar and well inside of the end of the bar it's going to be extremely tough to hit it on something directly enough to snap the mount off. IF you're able to accomplish that then you'd likely have snapped the mechanical shifter off as well and your day would be done anyway, plus you can easily source another sram matchmaker mount. I usually keep spares of what I consider "consumables" such as that in the toolbox anwyay


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## The Messiah (Apr 18, 2019)

The best group set I have ever run.

Shifts are impeccable, thumb wraps around the bar a lot more for better grip, slight movement of the thumb and you can shift, win win. It's just more ergonomic in every moment. I would never go back and as soon as I can buy a mech and a shifter I will do for the XC bike.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

So disappointing that we have become such lemmings that we not only accept this as "advancement" but we trip over ourselves praising it.

Poor chainlines, short life of chains and cassettes, and astronomical purchase and replacement prices are not "advancement". They are merely kicking the can down the road while separating us from our hard earned $.

When we can purchase a reliable drivetrain that lasts for 100,000 miles, with 10k mile service intervals -- and simple ones at that -- with a single, straight chainline and no derailleur to rip off the bike, then I'll get excited and happily throw my money at whomever produces it.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

mikesee said:


> So disappointing that we have become such lemmings that we not only accept this as "advancement" but we trip over ourselves praising it.
> 
> Poor chainlines, short life of chains and cassettes, and astronomical purchase and replacement prices are not "advancement". They are merely kicking the can down the road while separating us from our hard earned $.
> 
> When we can purchase a reliable drivetrain that lasts for 100,000 miles, with 10k mile service intervals -- and simple ones at that -- with a single, straight chainline and no derailleur to rip off the bike, then I'll get excited and happily throw my money at whomever produces it.


I agree with you to a point. This and XTR are the best. They function extremely well given the limitations.
The drive train you mentioned doesn't exist. The closest thing would be a gearbox and they are horrible. Yes they last forever and are simple to maintain, but weight far too much. You can't shift under load and efficiency is generations away from being competitive.
If your drive train existed I would happily throw my money at it instantly.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I've been on XT 11 speed for the past 4 years. I bought a used bike last year that had brand new GX Eagle and that lasted 1 ride before I ditched it for XT 11. I just don't need more useless range. When AXS came out I was intrigued, so a couple of days ago I got to try the New Forbidden Bike Company Druid with AXS. I didn't care for the shifter's ergonomics, or that the bottom of it up shifts. I know I would get used to the later but I would continue to dislike the former. I would like to feel more click on my thumb when I shift. It did shift very well and it should. I don't feel that it's enough of an advantage over my current setup, definitely not a game changer. And then there's the cost. Suspension components, wheels, tires and a quality dropper are all more important to my riding experience than a bit better shifting. This is the future though.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

alexbn921 said:


> They function extremely well given the limitations.
> 
> generations away from being competitive.


We can't get from A to Z if we keep throwing our money at A. A has known limitations that electronics not only don't address they don't even acknowledge.

If we start encouraging those that are looking hard at Z, we'll start moving through the generations and iterations it takes to get us there.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

mikesee said:


> We can't get from A to Z if we keep throwing our money at A. A has known limitations that electronics not only don't address they don't even acknowledge.
> 
> If we start encouraging those that are looking hard at Z, we'll start moving through the generations and iterations it takes to get us there.


What alternate drive train are you running? How does it work?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

mikesee said:


> So disappointing that we have become such lemmings that we not only accept this as "advancement" but we trip over ourselves praising it.
> 
> Poor chainlines, short life of chains and cassettes, and astronomical purchase and replacement prices are not "advancement". They are merely kicking the can down the road while separating us from our hard earned $.
> 
> When we can purchase a reliable drivetrain that lasts for 100,000 miles, with 10k mile service intervals -- and simple ones at that -- with a single, straight chainline and no derailleur to rip off the bike, then I'll get excited and happily throw my money at whomever produces it.


Got a pinion gearbox yet? (Assuming you want gears, if not then there's that other solution...)


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mikesee said:


> We can't get from A to Z if we keep throwing our money at A. A has known limitations that electronics not only don't address they don't even acknowledge.
> 
> If we start encouraging those that are looking hard at Z, we'll start moving through the generations and iterations it takes to get us there.


You wanna clue us in to what that Z is there, chief? Because you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how innovation works. Or you believe in wizards. At this point in time it would require magic, or possibly container ships full of cash, to create a gearbox drivetrain better than XTR or AXS. Like if you got the engineers from a couple of top F1 teams or something, and put no limitations on materials or cost, then maybe it could be done. Maybe. If it were possible to create a game changing drivetrain within the reality of the bicycle industry, either SRAM or Shimano or somebody would be doing it because the first one to get it right is going to own the marketplace for a while. We are not at fault for failing to support the current highly mediocre gearbox bikes. But feel free to ride one if you want to try to prove me wrong, I honestly hope you do. A derailleurless bike has always been a fine dream.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Legbacon said:


> I didn't care that the bottom of it up shifts. I know I would get used to the later


The buttons are programmable.

As for the range, that is user dependent. I use the entire range on my XC and Enduro.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Sidewalk said:


> The buttons are programmable.
> 
> As for the range, that is user dependent. I use the entire range on my XC and Enduro.


LOL, not sure why our bike is programmed backwards. I have a 28t up front and the demo bike has a 32t. I noticed the the jumps between gears on the demo felt larger, something I had never thought of before.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mikesee said:


> So disappointing that we have become such lemmings that we not only accept this as "advancement" but we trip over ourselves praising it.
> 
> Poor chainlines, short life of chains and cassettes, and astronomical purchase and replacement prices are not "advancement". They are merely kicking the can down the road while separating us from our hard earned $.
> 
> When we can purchase a reliable drivetrain that lasts for 100,000 miles, with 10k mile service intervals -- and simple ones at that -- with a single, straight chainline and no derailleur to rip off the bike, then I'll get excited and happily throw my money at whomever produces it.


For a lot of people (most?) 100,000 miles is 50 years or more, in other words a lifetime. Does anyone even keep the same bike for 50 years? It just doesn't seem realistic, or necessary for a mtb drivetrain to last that long.

I'm still a few steps behind on tech but I can replace 4 chains, 2 cassettes, and a chainring or 2 for about $200 which doesn't seem so bad in the grand scheme of things for a year of hard use.

I'm open to innovation but I'm pretty satisfied with my old tech drivetrain and overall it's been dead reliable for years, and if accepting refinements as improvements makes me a lemming then so be it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm pretty content with my AXS at this point. I often have to put a small amount of thought into the shift controller but after a weekend in Bentonville it's became a lot more intuitive.

Shifts darn well. I worked on the B tension a bit and it's no longer clunky.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Can anyone translate this. It looks like there are a bunch of customizations that look interesting. I can't tell if it's allowing different cassettes or what. And I took 6 years of Spanish. So much for retaining what I learned.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

So just fitted mine, with a reverb, but seem to have set both the mech and post as 'master' components in different systems. Meaning the app won't let me use them both as one system on the same bike, meaning i can't play with the button assignments. Does anyone know how to reset them? Manual and app don't make it obvious.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Tom Howard said:


> So just fitted mine, with a reverb, but seem to have set both the mech and post as 'master' components in different systems. Meaning the app won't let me use them both as one system on the same bike, meaning i can't play with the button assignments. Does anyone know how to reset them? Manual and app don't make it obvious.


I don't have mine yet but I did see one video where it mentioned setting the rear derailleur as the master component when there is more "AXS" than just a shift controller and derailleur. So reset everything and do it again? Let us know how it goes, I'll be running into the same problem soon.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Gregg K said:


> Can anyone translate this. It looks like there are a bunch of customizations that look interesting. I can't tell if it's allowing different cassettes or what. And I took 6 years of Spanish. So much for retaining what I learned.


Cool, didn't know you can add AXS as 'shifting' sensor on Garmin. Unfortunately, my Edge 520 doesn't have the option to select a single chainring up front and 12 speed at the back. Latest software version 12.90 is installed.

You don't need Spanish to understand the video 

I have 300km on my SRAM Eagle AXS / 6000hm of climbing. Very happy, shifting is very intuitive and ergonomics are great : I have the AXS shifter installed with the matchmaker of my new SRAM Guide G2 brakes. Your thumb nicely fits into the paddle design, the wings lock your thumb when up- or downshifting. No chainslap, shifting is smoother compared to mechanical, although shifting into the 36T cog is still a bit clumsy at times.

Friend of mine had bad luck though : installed his AXS group, after 30 minutes during setup shifter / derailleur died. No shifts, impossible to pair, no connection to the app on the phone. Replaced the battery from the shifter, no luck. Went to the shop, swapped battery of the rear derailleur, tried another shifter : nothing. The orange light of the rear derailleur kept blinking. Phoned SRAM Europe, agreement for exchange on the spot. No more issues so far. Wish they had some sort of troubleshooting / FAQ section online.

The app is rather limited, no statistics to view the number of shifts, most used cogs, factory reset, etc.

Comparison of the Eagle mechanical vs the AXS shifter. The AXS shifter has a lower profile. Although it looks very close to the grip, it doesn't bump into your hand. Thumb- position is spot on.


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

*First ride and I love it*

I really cant understand the negative comments. I'm sure they are being honest, but its so polar to my experience.

First ride out today (22 km) and it only took around 5 minutes to get used to the shifter. At no time was I ever confused, or reaching for a shifter that wasn't there.

That said I have a few bikes and a lot of different setups, so perhaps that has something to do with it:

In the winter I ride two bikes. One outdoor, one indoor:
Fatboy with Gripshift (good for frozen fingers)
NS Soda Slope, no gears, 26" indoor bike park dirt jumper

My Spring, summer and fall MTB:
My last bike was an Ibis HD3 (27.5) with SRAM XO1.
My new bike is a Ripmo (29") with SRAM XX1 AXS.

THOUGHTS:

Shifts are amazing. In my opinion an upgrade from my SRAM XO1 in every way. I preferred the way it felt.

I did find myself shifting more. 
Sort of like when I first went from tracking a 6 speed car to a sequential car. Not actually sure it will make me faster, but it is rewarding. Cars do so many shifts and cover so much ground in a single second, so shift speed really adds up to a lot of road. Not sure this phenomenon will translate to pedal power, as we cover so much less ground in a secon.)

There is a little sound when the motor shifts. When you are on the trail its sort of a squeak. That's the only clue and that is one of my negatives. It needs to give more feedback to the rider. Perhaps when I ride this bike more (brand new) I will just know.

When you click down there is a reassuring CLICK, but that's not there on the way up. They need more tactile response in the shifter for click ups. It's just silent

Same issue when you gear down for the granny gear. If you aren't listening for the little bit of motor whine there is no way of knowing you are on the smallest cog (other than the obvious "feeling"). I admit that would likely just become second nature as you get more familiar with your bike. (I was on my first 29er and an oval ring, so a few things to throw off the gearing).

My guess is version two of this will include some form of HAPTICS to give more feedback. The cable system has a lot more feedback.

But, I feel good about it and love the shifts.

Is it worth the money?
Depends on how much you make. It's not really needed and the non AXS kit is also amazing, but I do love it.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

farfromovin said:


> So I just ordered a rainbow cassette and chain from Europe.


Curious, what vendor did you order this from?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Curious, what vendor did you order this from?


Will be one of the resellers that is selling an 'essentials kit' where they've broken the full group down themselves.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

madskatingcow said:


> Cool, didn't know you can add AXS as 'shifting' sensor on Garmin. Unfortunately, my Edge 520 doesn't have the option to select a single chainring up front and 12 speed at the back. Latest software version 12.90 is installed.


I use the "Rear Gear" field from "Gears" menu and it works fine. Since we are 1x it doesn't make sense to show anything for front.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

soban said:


> I use the "Rear Gear" field from "Gears" menu and it works fine. Since we are 1x it doesn't make sense to show anything for front.
> 
> View attachment 1250315


Is there a way to see AXS rd battery level on the Garmin?


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

jon123 said:


> Is there a way to see AXS rd battery level on the Garmin?


Yes you can. This is what it looks like:

View attachment 208.bmp


On a separate note: Just wanted to discuss some cassette coating wear with everyone here. This is my first time using a SRAM drive train, is this level of wear normal? Everything is performing great but looks like that fancy oil slick coating is wearing off pretty fast. For reference I have 130KM/11 hours of riding. Thinking of pinging SRAM to ensure something is not terribly wrong.

PS. Battery life is very good! I still haven't charged it and it is roughly 80% remaining.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

soban said:


> On a separate note: Just wanted to discuss some cassette coating wear with everyone here. This is my first time using a SRAM drive train, is this level of wear normal? Everything is performing great but looks like that fancy oil slick coating is wearing off pretty fast. For reference I have 130KM/11 hours of riding. Thinking of pinging SRAM to ensure something is not terribly wrong.


Have you been riding in the mud? If so, yes. I've ridden 300km with mine, of which 140km in wet / muddy conditions. Looks the same, so did my XX1 gold cassette.


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

I only rode 6KM in mud and rest in dry conditions. Washed everything thoroughly afterwards. There was no wear observed after that ride. Otherwise I keep the cassette and chain very clean and lubricated.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

madskatingcow said:


> Friend of mine had bad luck though : installed his AXS group, after 30 minutes during setup shifter / derailleur died. No shifts, impossible to pair, no connection to the app on the phone. Replaced the battery from the shifter, no luck. Went to the shop, swapped battery of the rear derailleur, tried another shifter : nothing. The orange light of the rear derailleur kept blinking.


This is a little concerning. Any one else had or heard of this issue?


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

For those with reverb and drivetrain axs, SRAM has a quick pairing video:




Start the long presses till blinking lights at derailleur, then shift controller, then reverb, then reverb controller, and a single press back at the derailleur to end the pairing.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

BlackPenquinn said:


> ... It needs to give more feedback to the rider...My guess is version two of this will include some form of HAPTICS to give more feedback. The cable system has a lot more feedback....


That's one thing I never liked about electronic shifting riding Di2 and eTap. You click a little button and then it shifts. With mechanical, you're physically connected to and moving derailleurs. I'd didn't like the remote control aspect. Yeah, with actuators, electronics and software in the shifters and feedback from the derailleurs the haptics could be duplicated (kinda like fly-by-wire jets) but that's adding a heck of a lot of complexity. I realize this more than what you're asking for, which I believe is simply a tactile indication that the shift has occurred.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

> You click a little button and then it shifts


Thats a problem?

Seems to be similar to what is happening with enthusiast/sportscar gears. A few 'purists' harp on about the 'connection' a manual stick shift gearbox gives but, eventually, the vast majority buy paddle shift...


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## ejh (Apr 1, 2007)

got out for my 1st ride on XO1 AXS today. I didn't use the matchmaker system, it made the controller hit my thumb so used the clamp and put it inside the brake lever. it shifts great and I only shifted the wrong way once. I reversed the paddles from the original configuration, this way feels more natural to me. Coming from 1X11, 30X10-42 and going to a 32X10-50 I am liking the extra climbing gear. I will give more after saturday's race and how it works while I'm racing and can't think straight. But as of now I'm liking it a lot and should be getting out on it all week.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

soban said:


> Yes you can. This is what it looks like:
> 
> View attachment 1250770


I did this - the battery level. Worked like a charm. Thanks!
Also see that it counts number of shifts.


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

Lone Rager said:


> That's one thing I never liked about electronic shifting riding Di2 and eTap. You click a little button and then it shifts. With mechanical, you're physically connected to and moving derailleurs. I'd didn't like the remote control aspect. Yeah, with actuators, electronics and software in the shifters and feedback from the derailleurs the haptics could be duplicated (kinda like fly-by-wire jets) but that's adding a heck of a lot of complexity. I realize this more than what you're asking for, which I believe is simply a tactile indication that the shift has occurred.


That's one of my favourite features of di2 as I like the fact it moves enough to let you know you've pressed it but without needing the mechanical movement a normal shifter does which feels clumsy afterwards.


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

Three rides on mine and I’m in love with it. The shifting is so perfect and quick, I just love the experience. On one run I’m charging down a hill into a tight left, then uphill. Quickly shifting down is so satisfying and quick.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

have anybody seen the reverb axs measurement drawings for frame fit check? should be close to old reverb but I don’t want to make any bad assumptions... haven’t found anything on rockshox website


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

mfa81 said:


> have anybody seen the reverb axs measurement drawings for frame fit check? should be close to old reverb but I don't want to make any bad assumptions... haven't found anything on rockshox website


An AXS reverb is the same length as a regular one for a given drop.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

I have a Wahoo Bolt. I was able to get it to display the gear selection. I can either shown it graphically like the Garmin or a number. I have the graphic and found it very useful on the trail. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

bogeydog said:


> I have a Wahoo Bolt. I was able to get it to display the gear selection. I can either shown it graphically like the Garmin or a number. I have the graphic and found it very useful on the trail.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Picture please? Something like below?

I'm wondering : can you specify in gear configuration that you are using 1x12, the front chainring size and the size of each rear cog?

Using Electronic Shifting with the ELEMNT or BOLT :
https://wahoofitness.yonyx.com/y/conversation/?id=03610c70-bb5b-11e8-b169-bc764e11d2f4


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

madskatingcow said:


> Picture please?


I can take one tonight.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

UK Separates pricing released,

Mech £670
Shifter £200
Upgrade kit (above, plus charger and battery) £975

XX1 and X01 same price.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Haven't figured out battery level.









Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Great, thanks -

Can you specify in gear configuration that you are using 1x12, the front chainring size and the size of each rear cog?

Using Electronic Shifting with the ELEMNT or BOLT :
https://wahoofitness.yonyx.com/y/conversation/?id=03610c70-bb5b-11e8-b169-bc764e11d2f4


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Battery level is not existant. It's a complaint I've had for a while with the DI2. 
Wahoo REMOVED the DI2 battery level field a few years ago.

If you click your left side button
-scroll to whatever it shows on the component
- "more"
it should show battery life. 
On DI2, if your battery reaches 15% or lower, your screen will display an alert that your battery is low. Not sure how that will work for AXS, and it's multiple batteries.

Looks like the graphial gear display works the same as with the Di2 though!0


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

madskatingcow said:


> Great, thanks -
> 
> Can you specify in gear configuration that you are using 1x12, the front chainring size and the size of each rear cog?
> 
> ...


Yes

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## wooly88 (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks to this thread I didn’t even know my Garmin 520 could connect to my group. Now I can see what gear I’m in and what the battery level is. Awesome sauce.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Tom Howard said:


> UK Separates pricing released,
> 
> Mech £670
> Shifter £200
> ...


Have you got a link? I can't find this no matter how I search.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

I've seen emails from the distributor. Speak to your LBS.

I've preordered some stuff...


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## scyrway (Jul 21, 2016)

Universal cycles listed these items already, but not in stock. If you check their new arrivals.

$200 USD for the shifter 
$700 or $710 for the rear derailleur.
$1000 for the “upgrade kit” with battery charger shifter and derailleur.

https://www.universalcycles.com/new_products.php


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Had my first ride with AXS today. I really like the ergonomics, think SRAM nailed it. I ran the "controllers" much lower than traditional shifters/remotes but that's kinda due to the shape of the paddles. I never had a miss shift or shifted the wrong direction. I wouldn't say it shifts better than my mech Eagle (maybe a tiny bit) but it's way easier to shift. Just a blip of the thumb and the shift happened. Honestly, one of the huge benefits in my eyes is just getting rid of more cables. I like a quiet, simple bike. I guess it's not that simple if I gotta recharge batteries but you get what I mean.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

scyrway said:


> Universal cycles listed these items already, but not in stock. If you check their new arrivals.
> 
> $200 USD for the shifter
> $700 or $710 for the rear derailleur.
> ...


tks for the info! wondering when they are gonna have a charger available as well as extra batteries


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

mfa81 said:


> tks for the info! wondering when they are gonna have a charger available as well as extra batteries


It's the same charger and battery as SRAM Red.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

those buying AXS, are you able to get any deal? Found complete group for 10% but not more than that...

what are you guys paying on the axs if you don't mind sharing?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

18bikes in the uk were offering an X01 group for £1550, down from £1900, German sites as low as £1400, exchange rate dependant


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

wooly88 said:


> Thanks to this thread I didn't even know my Garmin 520 could connect to my group. Now I can see what gear I'm in and what the battery level is. Awesome sauce.


Yet another benefit of AXS.
I had no idea either this was a possibility when I got my AXS - but I love this feature. Use them both on my 520 now (gear and battery level).


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

farfromovin said:


> Had my first ride with AXS today. I really like the ergonomics, think SRAM nailed it. I ran the "controllers" much lower than traditional shifters/remotes but that's kinda due to the shape of the paddles. I never had a miss shift or shifted the wrong direction. I wouldn't say it shifts better than my mech Eagle (maybe a tiny bit) but it's way easier to shift. Just a blip of the thumb and the shift happened. Honestly, one of the huge benefits in my eyes is just getting rid of more cables. I like a quiet, simple bike. I guess it's not that simple if I gotta recharge batteries but you get what I mean.


What's the AXS Reverb like? I worry about trying it 

BTW - agree with all that you said about the AXS Eagle.

The controller is amazingly ergonomic. Very intuitive and well thought out. Quite literally within the first few shifts I was used it to and have never made an incorrect shift. Your thumb fits perfectly within the paddle.

* Please see EDIT below on this * I also wouldn't say the shifts themselves - overall - are a huge improvement over mechanical Eagle, but I thought mechanical Eagle shifted phenomenally. Shifts into the smaller cogs/harder gears I would say are better. Absolutely sublime.

BUT the shifting at the lever/controller is magnificent. Actually addictive. Just a tap on the paddle and it shifts. Not matter what the load or condition you're riding. I've heard Sram say they've found their riders shifts 20% more than with mechanical shifting. I can't say for sure it's 20%, but I'm definitely shifting more often with AXS because it's so easy.

As for the battery, I've ridden about 10 hours so far with TONS of shifting and my RD light is still green and the battery level on my Garmin is still showing full bars. Anyone concerned about having to regularly charge the battery, it's just not a concern.

There's no way I'd want to go back to mechanical shifting and cables and housing. Period. This is the future. And I'm guessing within a few years, once the technology trickles down, wireless setups will be ubiquitous.

I had been closely watching the prototypes and waiting for AXS in the several months leading up to its release and was expecting very good things. But I would honestly say it's exceeded my expectation. Sram has really thought through this system.

(And I didn't even touch on the wireless system. So clean looking and ridiculously easy to install)

EDIT: I spent some more time really fine tuning the micro adjust and found it made a significant improvement. I think there's now no question AXS shifts better than mechanical Eagle up and down the cassette - and definitely better than anything else I've ever tried.
Sram suggests adjusting the micro adjust by shifting to the 42 cog and eyeing the jockey wheel so it's centered. That didn't really work for me. What did - and again this is what worked for me - was adjusting it so it wouldn't shift into the next gear, like backing out the cable tension. Then clicking the micro adjust just enough that it shifts into the next gear.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

‘What's the AXS Reverb like?’

Brilliant. Click the button like the shifter and it’s up. No effort at all.

The only think I’m struggling with at the moment is I have the sprint button on the RHS controller to operate it, so that is taking a little time to get used to, but I took to the RHS Gear down, LHS Gear up straight away, and much prefer it.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Tom Howard said:


> 18bikes in the uk were offering an X01 group for £1550, down from £1900, German sites as low as £1400, exchange rate dependant


tks, unfortunately I'm in the us and they won't ship to the us :-(

some stores selling for $1750 on ponkbike both xx1 and x01 is the best I've found so far


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

jon123 said:


> What's the AXS Reverb like? I worry about trying it


The Reverb AXS valve opens so damn fast it almost catches me off guard. I just have to re-learn the hand eye brain coordination piece. 
But, just like it's AXS shifting counterpart, the ergonomics and performance of the controller is phenomenal. That, and it's silly easy to install.

I used to have a Reverb stealth on my hardtail as it was the ONLY internal post I could run do to my frame limitations. No way I could use an internal cable around the bottom bracket, kink city. For a moment I ran an external fox transfer which functioned well, but I didn't like the extra external cable and the mud that would jam up in the external cable junction on the seatpost.

I know Reverb is the post people love to hate, but this is a great setup for me.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

So far I've gotten several rides in on my Eagle AXS set up on an Air 9 RDO. Today was a really good test riding close to 4 hours of rolling XC singletrack with a ton of shifting.

One my first ride I had the shifter in the stock set up but then I reversed the paddles. I much prefer the reversed paddles. Feels more natural and I immediately stopped screwing up shift direction after the change.

The shifting is shifting is smooth and fast. No misshifts at all and there is no lag, something that SRAM wrestled with on their original wireless road groups. I have Di2 on my road bike and this feels comparable.

I did not have an Eagle mechanical set up, so I'm not able to make a direct comparison. I've mainly been running SRAM XX1 11 speed prior, but I did convert one bike last year to 12 speed with the TRS conversion kit. There is no comparison between that and the Eagle AXS set up. Way smoother and crisper on Eagle.

I am planning a couple long endurance races this year (Wilmington Whiteface, Leadville) and I inquired about BLIP compatibility. I thought a couple of BLIPS near the stem would be handy when using an aeroposition. Unfortunately Eagle AXS is not BLIP compatible. Either the BLIPS will work, or the stock shifter, but not both.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

My experience with XX1 AXS is much the same as others so some of these comments are naturally repetitive. But hopefully it helps others? 

I've moved from a GX 11-speed build, so it was a bigger jump, but I've ridden both triggers and gripshift with SRAM 10 and 11 speed. My own MTBs haven't had Shimano, but my wife's MTB does have 1x11 XT and I installed it for my dad on his bike.

Three big impressions about XX1 AXS:

To me the default down paddle to shift down and up paddle to shift up makes sense for several reasons - these are the directions you rotate grip shift, down is down, and there's a secondary button you can hit with your index finger that shifts up like Shimano. Climbing or sprinting, I find that using my index finger to upshift is kind of nice. But I do both.

Second: it does shift blindingly fast, without lag, but you're still operating a conventional drivetrain so some of the comments I have seen about downshifting under full power I think need some context. YES, you can do it- but you can do that on a cable-shifted drivetrain as well. In both cases, the torque you're applying at the cranks is not healthy for your cassette or hub. Powerful riders who do this often will break something sooner or later.

Third: it's kind of neat that you can sweep the whole cassette if you want. By default this is enabled - hold down the shift button and you go up or down the whole cassette, provided of course that you keep pedaling. This is like gripshift, but you have less feedback than gripshift. If you shift up or down 4 gears with gripshift you hear 4 pops and your wrist knows how far you turned the shift ring. With AXS, it's hard to tell whether you just downshifted 3 gears, or 4, but again I think you just keep pedaling and you stop when you're in the right gear based on your speed, traction, desired cadence, and so on. You can configure it to shift 1, 2, 3, or all gears with a held press and the default is all.

My next step is getting a bike computer that integrates with it. I don't race XC and thus I have little real use for a computer, but I do track my rides on a smartphone app. I'm considering the new Wahoo Elemnt Roam because I do use MTBProject when I explore new riding areas on trips, and if it works as advertised, that could be pretty useful. I hate it when I make a wrong turn and a planned 15 mile loop becomes 6, or worse, 25, unless I backtrack.

I don't know whether I can justify putting X01 or XX1 AXS on other bikes in my family fleet. This is the future but I don't see how it will ever become so inexpensive as to displace cable-operated drivetrains at the entry level. Mid-level, maybe so.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

ColinL said:


> My next step is getting a bike computer that integrates with it. I don't race XC and thus I have little real use for a computer, but I do track my rides on a smartphone app. I'm considering the new Wahoo Elemnt Roam because I do use MTBProject when I explore new riding areas on trips, and if it works as advertised, that could be pretty useful. I hate it when I make a wrong turn and a planned 15 mile loop becomes 6, or worse, 25, unless I backtrack..


it would be nice if you could grab that info using strava on your phone or something like that for those that use strava via smartphone and somehow show in the analysis of your ride


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mfa81 said:


> it would be nice if you could grab that info using strava on your phone or something like that for those that use strava via smartphone and somehow show in the analysis of your ride


it's a sensor so something like Garmin Connect should have all the raw data and could plot it on a graph of a ride. gear / gear ratio should be the same as anything else - cadence, power, speed, elevation.

that doesn't appeal to me but I can see how some would find it useful or interesting.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

HELP! I hope I'm just being stupid but... the inner sleeve on my xx1 cassette isn't spinning. I stick the tool in and even trying to put some force on it it won't rotate inside the cassette. any ideas on how to fix this?


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## soban (Sep 4, 2015)

djbutcher13 said:


> HELP! I hope I'm just being stupid but... the inner sleeve on my xx1 cassette isn't spinning. I stick the tool in and even trying to put some force on it it won't rotate inside the cassette. any ideas on how to fix this?


Don't worry, it just needs a real good amount of torque to rotate (like a lot). Make sure you are using a large enough wrench for extra leverage. I used a cassette tool mounted to a 15" bar to get it moving. Me and my friend went through the exact same thing. It happened to him for his brand new gold cassette. Apparently the new XX1 cassettes' lock rings are very stiff. I personally added a few drops of lube to help it rotate better in the future.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

holy moly you were right. Thank you. Ended up cracking it loose off the free hub with a chain whip and a long wrench. All the videos made it seem like it should just spin freely in there. Nope. Still very tight after cracking it loose but doable.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

I put the cassette tool in a vice, put the cassette on top, then used a big ol chain whip on the biggest sprocket.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

not sure I’m getting what you guys are talking since I’m still waititng for mine to arrrive! anybody has a good youtube link about this?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mfa81 said:


> not sure I'm getting what you guys are talking since I'm still waititng for mine to arrrive! anybody has a good youtube link about this?


several posts proceeding you are talking about difficulty removing a cassette. that is nothing about AXS, it has come up now and then since 2012 when XX1 11 speed and the XD driver / hub was launched. you are supposed to grease it when installing. if this isn't done you can have issues installing or removing. even if it is done, you can have issues. 

btw I wouldn't suggest applying massive force to the largest cog. I'd do middle of the cassette.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

what are you guys using to cover the frame cable routing ports? I saw some 3m adhesive a guy was using on vital bike check, still not sure what's the best, seems to work but looks kinda too much diy


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

mfa81 said:


> what are you guys using to cover the frame cable routing ports? I saw some 3m adhesive a guy was using on vital bike check, still not sure what's the best, seems to work but looks kinda too much diy


I just left mine open. The bike has black molded fittings in the holes anyway. Since I already had holes from the front derailleur cable anyway (was originally an XT 2x system) I don't think it makes a difference. Besides, it's carbon, it ain't gonna rust. Of course, once I get the AXS dropper then the frame will really be full of holes.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

mfa81 said:


> what are you guys using to cover the frame cable routing ports?


unintended benefit: the death of internal routing!


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

mfa81 said:


> what are you guys using to cover the frame cable routing ports?


My Pivot, despite being 2 years old, came with blanking plates for different systems (cable, Di2 and no cable) so only a couple of holes for me, which are by the head tube so not likely a ton of water will be getting in.

My 5010 is a V1, so all external routing, save for the dropper, but a rubber grommet sorts that.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mfa81 said:


> what are you guys using to cover the frame cable routing ports? I saw some 3m adhesive a guy was using on vital bike check, still not sure what's the best, seems to work but looks kinda too much diy


Measure the holes....then head down to your local hardware store. They will probably have a bin of plugs that will fit. I found mine at a local Ace hardware.
If your LBS is on the ball.....they should also have plenty ( or can get them)


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

I think some plugs is the best... will try to find some of these


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I had some auto trim plastic plugs lying around. The heads required a little trimming to fit but it looks sort of factory. 








Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## zgxtreme (Mar 25, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> I had some auto trim plastic plugs lying around. The heads required a little trimming to fit but it looks sort of factory.
> View attachment 1255379
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


 on the creativity, looks great.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Bought two full sets complete with crank-chain-cassette-derailleur-shifter. Installed one on Fiance's Trek RSL that was fitted with 12 speed GX. Wasn't impressed considering what I can get from a cable operated 11 speed XTR/SRAM XG-1195 cassette and race face next SL cranks.

Sent one back for a refund. Sorry, just not seeing this as a the game changer everyone is touting it to be, and in my area, 50T is a bit overkill too.

My two cents.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Anger said:


> Bought two full sets complete with crank-chain-cassette-derailleur-shifter. Installed one on Fiance's Trek RSL that was fitted with 12 speed GX. Wasn't impressed considering what I can get from a cable operated 11 speed XTR/SRAM XG-1195 cassette and race face next SL cranks.
> 
> Sent one back for a refund. Sorry, just not seeing this as a the game changer everyone is touting it to be, and in my area, 50T is a bit overkill too.
> 
> My two cents.


Its interesting to hear all opinions, none of which are wrong. I have two sets on order. I actually have zero expectations that my shifting experience will be positively impacted. Conversely, I think the full sweep double down shift when hauling ace into a punchy climb will suffer.

So why do it? Most of it comes down to preventative maintenance and repair. Here is where I think I will pick up some value:
1) death of internal routing...I change frames a lot. you may not, but see #2 
2) no broken cable or housing when/if the rear section gets caught on tree/rock, etc.
3) two less cables/housings to catch branches and twigs up front
4) internal deflection in the event of a der strike. less der hanger issues to worry about.

could be a miss on all of those points, but they seem to be reasonable expectations. and so goes the perils of being an early adopter.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Anger said:


> Bought two full sets complete with crank-chain-cassette-derailleur-shifter. Installed one on Fiance's Trek RSL that was fitted with 12 speed GX. Wasn't impressed considering what I can get from a cable operated 11 speed XTR/SRAM XG-1195 cassette and race face next SL cranks.
> 
> Sent one back for a refund. Sorry, just not seeing this as a the game changer everyone is touting it to be, and in my area, 50T is a bit overkill too.
> 
> My two cents.


So what does your fiance think? Her bike, after all.

My wife complains whenever her bike has the slightest issue shifting, and can't be bothered to learn what a barrel adjuster does. But that's not nearly enough reason for me to install AXS on her bike, at this point.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

ColinL said:


> So what does your fiance think? Her bike, after all.
> 
> My wife complains whenever her bike has the slightest issue shifting, and can't be bothered to learn what a barrel adjuster does. But that's not nearly enough reason for me to install AXS on her bike, at this point.


She doesn't care for it. My Fiance is basically the same with respect to the shifting, but she is learning how to fix and adjust. Fiance's fav setup out of many bikes, including this 12 speed AXS, is her all carbon fat bike with 11 speed XX1 grip shift, XX1 rear der, 10-42 XG-1195 cassette.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

tdc_worm said:


> Its interesting to hear all opinions, none of which are wrong. I have two sets on order. I actually have zero expectations that my shifting experience will be positively impacted. Conversely, I think the full sweep double down shift when hauling ace into a punchy climb will suffer.
> 
> So why do it? Most of it comes down to preventative maintenance and repair. Here is where I think I will pick up some value:
> 1) death of internal routing...I change frames a lot. you may not, but see #2
> ...


I look at it as my expensive passion, nothing wrong with spending a little excess here and there. I just decided one complete set was enough, based on a test run and Fiance's reaction. Not like it can go back used. hahaha.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Anger said:


> Bought two full sets complete with crank-chain-cassette-derailleur-shifter. Installed one on Fiance's Trek RSL that was fitted with 12 speed GX. Wasn't impressed considering what I can get from a cable operated 11 speed XTR/SRAM XG-1195 cassette and race face next SL cranks.
> 
> Sent one back for a refund. Sorry, just not seeing this as a the game changer everyone is touting it to be, and in my area, 50T is a bit overkill too.
> 
> My two cents.


But....but...it's the bestestest and you will shift 21.3729 % more according to all the marketing material!

Honestly....I agree 127.3792 % with you . And I own a marketing company...so you can trust my percentages!
I dumped a lot of cash on both AXS and XTR12.....if there's a difference from any of my other bikes....it's so tiny that it isn't even a thing.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

the mayor said:


> But....but...it's the bestestest and you will shift 21.3729 % more according to all the marketing material!
> 
> Honestly....I agree 127.3792 % with you . And I own a marketing company...so you can trust my percentages!
> I dumped a lot of cash on both AXS and XTR12.....if there's a difference from any of my other bikes....it's so tiny that it isn't even a thing.


lol thanks for making me laugh. Fiance did ride her Trek again yesterday and she does like it again now. I rode her bike with the AXS and I just didn't get it, apart from the cool factor, and cool costs money. We have the one setup now, which is fine. Sent the second one back unused. Just don't see the point in spending needlessly.

I did forget to mention I had to swap out her bottom bracket to SRAM's DUB, which displeased me. Her bike already had 2018 GX components on it, so WHY !!! But I digress.

I would have bought XTR12, but no way am I buying another rear hub driver "microspline"


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Anger said:


> I did forget to mention I had to swap out her bottom bracket to SRAM's DUB, which displeased me. Her bike already had 2018 GX components on it, so WHY !!! But I digress.
> 
> I would have bought XTR12, but no way am I buying another rear hub driver "microspline"


I don't even know where to start here.
First off...you misspelled DUmB....
It's the best standard....28.9mm is so much better than 24mm or 30mm.
But T47 is coming....which will also be so amazeballs
And hold off on buying XTR12....wait for XTR12 v2,1......that will be morerer the real deal and so revolutionary...that you will actually evolve into a new species.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

the mayor said:


> I don't even know where to start here.
> First off...you misspelled DUmB....
> It's the best standard....28.9mm is so much better than 24mm or 30mm.
> But T47 is coming....which will also be so amazeballs
> And hold off on buying XTR12....wait for XTR12 v2,1......that will be morerer the real deal and so revolutionary...that you will actually evolve into a new species.


I actually like the new DUB cranks.

The GX is pretty light and the price is ok for that. 
On the old GXP cranks have the axle on the drive site which makes changing chainrings kinda annyoing.
The new PF92 DUB is cheap and has a big press-in-surface.
Installation was easy and no creaking so far.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

OneTrustMan said:


> I actually like the new DUB cranks.
> 
> The GX is pretty light and the price is ok for that.
> On the old GXP cranks have the axle on the drive site which makes changing chainrings kinda annyoing.
> ...


SRAM does a great job, generally, innovating. There is meaningful technology in the AXS rear derailleur (how long until we drop the 'rear' in MTB vernacular?), as was in XX1 11 speed back in 2012, and the chain and tooth profile when 12-speed Eagle launched a few years ago.

So, Dub's revised design for maximum bearing _sealing_ and not just worrying about bearing _size_ makes perfect sense to me.

But the way in which they've done it, especially with the extremely non-standard with a 28.99mm spindle has the stench of intentionally creating differentiation just to prevent competition.

I would imagine that SRAM didn't like people using their crank arms on Race Face spindles. They want the whole bottom bracket and cranks to be SRAM, which makes sense because you don't want people bitching about their issues when using a frankenstein mix of parts, but it also makes sense to freeze competition out.

Personally, I don't really care. GXP was a cheap BB and Dub is a cheap BB. The cranks themselves have not changed price and I've always mated a SRAM crank and BB. Threaded GXP to threaded DUB was a non-event on my AXS equipped bike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ColinL said:


> SRAM does a great job, generally, innovating. There is meaningful technology in the AXS rear derailleur (how long until we drop the 'rear' in MTB vernacular?), as was in XX1 11 speed back in 2012, and the chain and tooth profile when 12-speed Eagle launched a few years ago.
> 
> So, Dub's revised design for maximum bearing _sealing_ and not just worrying about bearing _size_ makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> ...


They are kind of forced to, with the manufacturers that won't budge on BB92. BB92 doesn't leave enough room really for bearings and 30mm cranks. All the manufactures that designed and speced these bikes with 30mm cranks like the RF Next SL to keep the weight "competitive" are the most guilty here IMO. They knew what they were doing and should never have speced cranks that weren't designed for this special interface, but they did, and the rest is history...I don't blame SRAM as much for wanting to produce one axle that will work well for the 3 main standards (english, BB30 and BB92).


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

But the argument that 28.9 is better for bb92 vs 30mm is pretty weak, does it really make a difference for the bearings?!?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mfa81 said:


> But the argument that 28.9 is better for bb92 vs 30mm is pretty weak, does it really make a difference for the bearings?!?


I'm positive this has come up before in the dub-specific discussions. But the answer is right here in MTBR:
https://reviews.mtbr.com/deep-dive-into-srams-new-dub-system


> *What is the diameter of a DUB oversized spindle?*
> The diameter was reduced from our 30mm version just enough in order to allow for proper sealing with all standard BB configurations. We shrunk the diameter just enough to get the seals we wanted into each of our DUB platform bottom brackets. The spindle diameter ended up at 28.99mm.
> 
> *How is the same DUB crank able to fit into every BB shell standard without making any major sacrifices?
> ...


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

“sealing on the worst case BB (PF92)”

at least someone in the industry understand that!


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

I don't really care about all that stuff about bearings and so on.
I just hope that the DUB 92 will last long without any issues.

The only BB's I have destroyed so far are Shimano square tapered ones.
A lot of them. 
They are good for casual riding, but only a few hours of jumping and they are toast.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

anybody has any info on a deal for the reverb?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

mfa81 said:


> anybody has any info on a deal for the reverb?


Most of the EU/UK sellers have 10% off. LBS's should be able to match or beat that, depends how friendly you are with them I guess


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Tom Howard said:


> Most of the EU/UK sellers have 10% off. LBS's should be able to match or beat that, depends how friendly you are with them I guess


should have said I'm in the US so EU is a no go for me!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I say this with confidence: AXS , even when pricing comes down, is not going to replace cable actuated shifting.

Personally, I don't think it even shifts 5% better.

The only reason I'm keeping mine is because it's as good as Eagle, and I really disliked the shifter cable that my bike ran under the BB.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> I say this with confidence: AXS , even when pricing comes down, is not going to replace cable actuated shifting.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it even shifts 5% better.
> 
> The only reason I'm keeping mine is because it's as good as Eagle, and I really disliked the shifter cable that my bike ran under the BB.


Personally, I'm waiting for "AXS" edition frames to come out with only rear brake routing.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

farfromovin said:


> Personally, I'm waiting for "AXS" edition frames to come out with only rear brake routing.


I don't this is gonna happen soon, it's not like the 1x, still have shimano that will continue to have its fair share of the market


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I say this with confidence: AXS , even when pricing comes down, is not going to replace cable actuated shifting.


This is an interesting situation for top-tier and mid-range bikes, and eventually budget ones. Putting my "10 years in to the future" hat on

What about: 

when the cost of electronics drop hugely (Moore's law and improving battery tech due to e.g. phones and cars)
when R&D and tooling costs have been amortized & depreciated
when it's easier & thus quicker for manufactures to install & set-up bettery powered electronic shifting vs mechanical (which is how external BB's came to be)
when due to liability reasons, for worn or damaged or poorly-adjusted components, your bike "shuts itself down" and won't shift anymore until it's serviced e.g. chain or cassette replaced or der.hanger straightened (here in Australia we laugh about someone in the US suing over spilling McDonalds because the person spilt his/her coffee [and wanted a warning on the cup or some such]...but if that can happen then someone can sue a drivetrain manuf or bike co over an accident/incident. So, this is a way for manufacturers to protect themselves...and to drive sales of components and to drive traffic to LBS...so it's a win-win-win for the industry
if the reason that Shimano are late to the wireless party because they want to find a way to make it inexpensive and thus more accessible...and gazumping SRAM for a change?
if in the future to go to 13+ speed, or to make it easier to set-up 12 speed (a much complained about aspect of Eagle, especially the b-screw), the drivetrain fully set-itself up and maintain adjustment e.g. had another servo for the b-screw adjustment, further reducing the reliance on fallible and expensive humans


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

PuddleDuck said:


> This is an interesting situation for top-tier and mid-range bikes, and eventually budget ones. Putting my "10 years in to the future" hat on...


Some of those are already here, the main reason that AXS is so expensive is because it is a first generation release and it was intended to be a top level premium product. Mass produced electronics are already cheap and the technology will only get better as the cost comes down. Batteries will always have room for improvement but they are good enough and cheap enough now for these systems to be viable. Overall reliability is similar to traditional systems already, shifting quality is at least as good as a well set up cable system with fresh cables and housing, but with easier shift actuation and more flexibility. The only legit downsides are cost and needing to charge the batteries. Cost will come down, especially once Shimano gets with the program and updates to wireless. Batteries are already a pretty minor downside, more of a technogrouch issue, and will become less of one as time goes on. Getting rid of the longest cable run on the bike will never not be a good thing, as the tech matures and the tradeoffs fade away it will seem even more so and help push these systems further downmarket. There have even been fully viable add-on systems from small manufacturers for over a year now. Few people truly need wireless shifting, but the manufacturers will make sure that most riders eventually want it by continually improving the features and reducing the tradeoffs.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I say this with confidence: AXS , even when pricing comes down, is not going to replace cable actuated shifting.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it even shifts 5% better.
> 
> The only reason I'm keeping mine is because it's as good as Eagle, and I really disliked the shifter cable that my bike ran under the BB.


Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Mine couldn't be further from this. It may depend on what we each experienced before. I haven't owned & ridden recent XX1 or XTR. I went from GX 11 speed with 3 hard years on it to XX1 AXS and the shifting is way, way more than 5% improved. It's many times better.

It never fails to shift, or shifts slowly, if there's a soft press on the trigger or if the cable tension is slightly less than perfect or the housing has a sharp bend... Or anything else that can and does happen to cables. This should be obvious in both riding and in theory.?

The cable under the frame is also subjective, and honestly, laughable. How was it affecting performance?

My rear shift cable was internally routed through the lower tube but exited in front of the water bottle cage and was in the way. The bike looks cleaner without it, but that cable also really got in my way when re-inserting a bottle quickly while riding

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

ColinL said:


> Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
> 
> Mine couldn't be further from this. It may depend on what we each experienced before. I haven't owned & ridden recent XX1 or XTR. I went from GX 11 speed with 3 hard years on it to XX1 AXS and the shifting is way, way more than 5% improved. It's many times better.
> k


You're comparing a 3 year old worn out drive train to a new drive train?
Really?


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

i'm comparing 1500 mile old XX1 eagle to XX1 AXS. The difference is night and day. What will be interesting is when i put the individual new AXS mech and shifter on that cassette in a month or so. Ive no reason to think it'll be any less dramatic a change.

FWIW, my XX1 cable set up shifted beautifully, i stand by the night and day difference.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

But doesn't your Eagle shift perfectly already? I mean how much perfect-er can it be?

I work on my wife's bike often with Eagle and that thing shifts absolutely flawless. Honestly feels a little less clunky than my AXS. Maybe I have a B tension issue or something?

Someone above asked about the shifter cable running under my BB. To clarify it caused no harm. It just made my bike look unfinished to my eyes. My OCD I guess. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> But doesn't your Eagle shift perfectly already? I mean how much perfect-er can it be?


I don't have to think about performing the shift. I click a button, with no more effort than mouse click, and the shift is done. Thats regardless of conditions, regardless of how much power is going through the cranks. The only indication that a shift has happened, is the buzz of the motor, and a difference in feeling in my legs/speed.

That plus knowing that, the shift performance won't change over time due to cables etc.

Just because the previous thing was (very) good, doesn't mean it can't be made to perform better by going in a different direction. Its not a perfect analogy but its like comparing stick shift in cars, vs paddle shift. Clicking a paddle vs moving a stick though a H pattern, a human simply can't change faster, or more reliably than a computer, despite how good the manual gearbox might be.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

the mayor said:


> You're comparing a 3 year old worn out drive train to a new drive train?
> Really?


That's all you got out of my post, really?

I have ridden X01 mechanical quite recently. My gravel bike has Red.

I'm actually comparing XX1 AXS against every single cable-operated drivetrain I've ever ridden. There is no comparison.

Tom's analogy is a good one.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

PuddleDuck said:


> (here in Australia we laugh about someone in the US suing over spilling McDonalds because the person spilt his/her coffee [and wanted a warning on the cup or some such]


Only because you don't know a single thing about the case and as per usual go by what the "Press" told you.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

I've gotten some more rides in including an endurance race at Wilmington Whiteface and some more loops on local singletrack. Shifting continues to be perfect and I'm really pleased with the set up and forget aspect of the system. I had one minor issue after reassembly the bike after travel to Wilmington. I take the derailleur off in my travel bag to protect it, and when I put it back on in the somewhat poorly lit hotel room I didn't have it lined up quite right and the shifting was off. Loosing the derailleur from the hanger, and readjusting fixed the issue.

As I've continued to ride I am liking the shifter, but as mentioned earlier in the thread I flipped the buttons from default. With my cockpit setup everything feels super easy and natural now.

The most recent MTB Podcast https://www.mtbpodcast.com/ has a really good breakdown of Eagle, Eagle AXS, and the new Shimano XTR. I thought they did a really good job covering the different systems and the pro's and con's. It is definitely worth a listen and in general a great podcast to pick up some tips and tricks. I started using automotic ceramic sealant on my frames based on a tip earlier this year and it's been amazing.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Kuttermax said:


> The most recent MTB Podcast https://www.mtbpodcast.com/ has a really good breakdown of Eagle, Eagle AXS, and the new Shimano XTR. I thought they did a really good job covering the different systems and the pro's and con's. It is definitely worth a listen and in general a great podcast to pick up some tips and tricks. I started using automotic ceramic sealant on my frames based on a tip earlier this year and it's been amazing.


Hi Kuttermax,

Thanks for the tip about the podcast. Can you please tell us more about the "ceramic sealant" you use, and any tips for preparation and application? I've read that for automotive applications that preparation is important and takes up to a day!

My interest was piqued about doing this by the following article, which talks about a "bike specific" ceramic sealant.

https://bikerumor.com/2019/06/10/proteam-bicycle-care-ceramic-frame-coating-repels-dirt-water-more/


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

PuddleDuck said:


> Hi Kuttermax,
> 
> Thanks for the tip about the podcast. Can you please tell us more about the "ceramic sealant" you use, and any tips for preparation and application? I've read that for automotive applications that preparation is important and takes up to a day!
> 
> ...


At the risk of derailing this thread...

I mainly use Adam's Polishes products for cleaning and maintaining my cars. I've found a number of their products work really well on bikes to, such as their Waterless Wash (https://adamspolishes.com/shop/exterior/carwashing/adam-s-waterless-car-wash.html) which is awesome for quickly cleaning your bike after a ride.

The ceramic sealant/coating is a really tough, durable coating that attaches to your paint and forms a layer on top of it. It helps protect the paint, but also helps to keep dirt from attaches and makes it even easier to clean. For cars, it holds up really well even through car washes and day to day road abuse. Therefore is should really last a long time on a bike.

A bunch of companies make the sealants, but I went with Adams since I'm already familiar with their products and really trust in the quality. The ceramic coating needs to be applied when the bike is super clean, so you need to take the time to do this. If you have a brand new bike, that's probably the best. For cars, you use a clay bar to get the paint super clean.

The formulation seems to have changed. This is the kit I have and has enough to do many bikes: https://adamspolishes.com/adam-s-ceramic-paint-coating-kit.html

However now it looks like they went with a simpler spray on formula. I haven't tried it, but I suspect it is great. https://adamspolishes.com/ceramic-spray-coating-kit.html

I did my Trek Emonda road bike frame and my Niner Air 9 RDO frame (it was brand new) this past winter and everything is perfect. The mechanics at the Trek Store noticed it right away when I brought the bike in and asked me finish I put on. On my Niner, it has a bit more of a matte finish and I don't notice the coating as much, but cleaning the bike has been very easier (especially with the Waterless Wash spray).

Hope this helps.


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## PuddleDuck (Feb 14, 2004)

Kuttermax said:


> Hope this helps.


Indeed it does! This is awesome. I already use car polished and waxes on my bikes, now it's time to take it to the next level. I'll see what's available down here in Australia.

Interestingly the product in the bikerumor link says that it works well on matte finishes. Quoting _"For matte finishes, Proteam claims that it makes a deeper black, rather than the typical dark grey appearance."_


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> Personally, I don't think it even shifts 5% better.


I really don't understand how you can say this. 
I had a well set up mechanical XX1 - and have tried other very well set up mechanical XX1 drivetrains before I bought mine - and AXS shifting beats them in every way. It's not even close. Everything about it is better. Smoother. Faster. Easier.

I see you also said you thought your AXS set up was more "clunky" than your cable Eagle. Something seems very wrong to me in that case. Sometimes my AXS shifts so smoothly, so sublimely I can't get over it.

I was very, very happy with my mechanical Eagle set up. But this is a whole other level in shifting.


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## keb (Jul 5, 2017)

What's your experience with battery life of RD? I've been using AXS for about 40 hours of riding and I still have a full battery which is great given the stated 20-25 hours. I know it depends on the number of shifts but my XC terrain requires a fair number of shifts per ride, so beside excellent shifting of AXSt that's definitely another positive element (surprise) for me.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jon123 said:


> I really don't understand how you can say this.
> I had a well set up mechanical XX1 - and have tried other very well set up mechanical XX1 drivetrains before I bought mine - and AXS shifting beats them in every way. It's not even close. Everything about it is better. Smoother. Faster. Easier.
> 
> I see you also said you thought your AXS set up was more "clunky" than your cable Eagle. Something seems very wrong to me in that case. Sometimes my AXS shifts so smoothly, so sublimely I can't get over it.
> ...


I sincerely wonder if I don't have AXS set up poorly as it was my first drivetrain to ever set up. I followed the online tutorial. 
The gears/ pulleys are lined up very well, should they instead favor one direction or the other? 
Then I set the limits per the instructions. 
I dropped shock air pressure to get to 30% sag and used the little plastic tool to set the B tension. This one felt weird because it required the adjustment to essentially be backed all of the way out to be in range. 
The bike has a new cassette but the chain has lots of miles on it but still measures no wear, which has been my experience when using Molten Chain wax as I do. I can't help but wonder if the chain has wear in other ways not measurable with a chain wear tool? 
My AXS is just a hair clunky at times. My wife's Eagle (not set up by me) has absolutely no clunkiness, completely silent, at least on my short test rides. 
Not sure what to check. Advice?

Ps. Battery life is outstanding.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Can't help with installation - my LBS did mine. It is the first drivetrain that I haven't installed in the last decade. I was out of the country for 2 weeks and left my bike, and they quoted me $60 bucks to remove my existing drivetrain and install the dub BB and AXS. I laughed, they said AXS was dead easy, and I came back in 2 weeks and rode away happy.


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> I sincerely wonder if I don't have AXS set up poorly as it was my first drivetrain to ever set up. I followed the online tutorial.
> The gears/ pulleys are lined up very well, should they instead favor one direction or the other?
> Then I set the limits per the instructions.
> I dropped shock air pressure to get to 30% sag and used the little plastic tool to set the B tension. This one felt weird because it required the adjustment to essentially be backed all of the way out to be in range.
> ...


I used the tool to set be tension, but didn't sag the shock. I also used a new chain, on a new cassette. Ignoring the wear indication, how many miles were on that old chain?


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

I always use a new chain with a new cassette, chains are cheap compared to cassette so no reason to use the old chain unless it’s like new with just a few miles


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> I sincerely wonder if I don't have AXS set up poorly as it was my first drivetrain to ever set up. I followed the online tutorial.
> The gears/ pulleys are lined up very well, should they instead favor one direction or the other?
> Then I set the limits per the instructions.
> I dropped shock air pressure to get to 30% sag and used the little plastic tool to set the B tension. This one felt weird because it required the adjustment to essentially be backed all of the way out to be in range.
> ...


Have you played around with the micro adjust? It's basically the AXS version of cable tension. 
Too little and it won't shift into the next gear, or struggle to. 
Too much and it will feel AWFUL. I mean terrible, noisy, clunky. It's amazing the difference a few extra clicks can make. 
For me I found backing it off until it barely shifted into the next gear, then I added one click. Perfect. I've done that now for two frames.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Got a notification about a firmware update. First one I’ve seen:

We have recently released a firmware update for your XX1 or X01 EAGLE AXS™ Derailleur

The newest firmware version 2.4.2 fixes a critical bug that could render your derailleur in-operable.

Step 1 - update the AXS app to the latest version 1.2.6 (iOS or GooglePlay)

Step 2 - open the AXS app and connect to your XX1 or X01 derailleur to update to firmware version 2.4.2


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> This one felt weird because it required the adjustment to essentially be backed all of the way out to be in range.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


This seems off too. 
You should need to have a the b screw dialed in a fair bit to have the needed gap. 
I can't imagine having it backed out all the way.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jon123 said:


> Have you played around with the micro adjust? It's basically the AXS version of cable tension.
> Too little and it won't shift into the next gear, or struggle to.
> Too much and it will feel AWFUL. I mean terrible, noisy, clunky. It's amazing the difference a few extra clicks can make.
> For me I found backing it off until it barely shifted into the next gear, then I added one click. Perfect. I've done that now for two frames.


I have played with the micro adjust and honestly I could hear no difference at all. And I was really trying. 
Can you clarify what you mean by too much and too little, because your description of too much, while worse than it is, is also pretty accurate. 
Backing off until it barely shifted? Isn't it supposed to be perfectly aligned with whatever gear it's currently in? Or are you saying you intentionally have it off perfect alignment?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> I have played with the micro adjust and honestly I could hear no difference at all. And I was really trying.
> Can you clarify what you mean by too much and too little, because your description of too much, while worse than it is, is also pretty accurate.
> Backing off until it barely shifted? Isn't it supposed to be perfectly aligned with whatever gear it's currently in? Or are you saying you intentionally have it off perfect alignment?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Sram recommends setting the micro adjust by shifting into the 42T and basically eyeing the jockey wheel to see that it's centered.
That didn't really work FOR ME.
What I did - and have done on two frames now - is shift into the smallest cog and click the micro adjust so when shifting the RD will not shift or will struggle to shift into the next gear.
Then I add just enough clicks with the micro adjust until it shifts. Just one click at a time until it shifts.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

jon123 said:


> Got a notification about a firmware update. First one I've seen:
> 
> We have recently released a firmware update for your XX1 or X01 EAGLE AXS Derailleur
> 
> ...


I got that too, all excited ran to the garage to update my bike like a lunatic. Quickly realized it already updated to 2.4.2 when I installed it almost a month ago 5/21. So that firmware has been out.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

farfromovin said:


> I got that too, all excited ran to the garage to update my bike like a lunatic. Quickly realized it already updated to 2.4.2 when I installed it almost a month ago 5/21. So that firmware has been out.


Lol me too.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jon123 said:


> Sram recommends setting the micro adjust by shifting into the 42T and basically eyeing the jockey wheel to see that it's centered.
> That didn't really work FOR ME.
> What I did - and have done on two frames now - is shift into the smallest cog and click the micro adjust so when shifting the RD will not shift or will struggle to shift into the next gear.
> Then I add just enough clicks with the micro adjust until it shifts. Just one click at a time until it shifts.


Micro adjust further to the right, or further to the left (sitting behind the bike) while in the highest (smallest in diameter) gear?

Thx.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Even though my chain showed no wear using the wear gauge I replaced it anyways, and my AXS does shift much better. Also I have to admit I rode my wife's bike with standard Eagle and I sort of missed my AXS for the first time. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

Just installed mine (XX1 AXS), first test ride will come in the next hours.  Replaced a mechanic 1x11 XTR shifting with this one. Works like a dream - however, I always push the wrong button to shift up and down...  I think I'll switch the buttons with the SRAM AXS app.
Nevertheless, works much much better than my XTR. (Maybe the XTR derailleur or the XTR shifter was damaged, I don't know. It was not good at all by some reason, even if I spent hours and hours to find the root cause of the continuous rattling and weak XTR shifting performance.)

I read that below, you mentioned the new Firmware, so I've just updated the Firmware to 2.4.2. Do you know, what's new in this one?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

semmiho said:


> Just installed mine (XX1 AXS), first test ride will come in the next hours.  Replaced a mechanic 1x11 XTR shifting with this one. Works like a dream - however, I always push the wrong button to shift up and down...  I think I'll switch the buttons with the SRAM AXS app.
> Nevertheless, works much much better than my XTR. (Maybe the XTR derailleur or the XTR shifter was damaged, I don't know. It was not good at all by some reason, even if I spent hours and hours to find the root cause of the continuous rattling and weak XTR shifting performance.)
> 
> I read that below, you mentioned the new Firmware, so I've just updated the Firmware to 2.4.2. Do you know, what's new in this one?


There's no feature or functional change in 2.4.2. It simply removes a bug - apparently a bad one, but I haven't seen anyone here complain of a bricked AXS derailleur.

You can easily switch the shifting of the paddle, but the small trigger button on the front of the shifter will always be an upshift. By 'upshift' I always mean a harder gear. Yes, I know it's a numerically lower gear ratio and smaller cog, but I think there's a lot of precedent for calling it an upshift based on cars and other things in daily life with gears.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

ColinL said:


> There's no feature or functional change in 2.4.2. It simply removes a bug - apparently a bad one, but I haven't seen anyone here complain of a bricked AXS derailleur.
> 
> You can easily switch the shifting of the paddle, but the small trigger button on the front of the shifter will always be an upshift. By 'upshift' I always mean a harder gear. Yes, I know it's a numerically lower gear ratio and smaller cog, but I think there's a lot of precedent for calling it an upshift based on cars and other things in daily life with gears.


are you sure? seems like that's not correct, there are only 2 mechanical buttons, the front and upper shifters are the same then the lower shifter. there are not 3 separate buttons... said that that's how my current shift is, I haven't messed with change configuration, but if you look at the shifter using you finger to press the trigger and thumb to press the upper paddle all result in the same button being pressed


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

ColinL said:


> There's no feature or functional change in 2.4.2. It simply removes a bug - apparently a bad one, but I haven't seen anyone here complain of a bricked AXS derailleur.
> 
> You can easily switch the shifting of the paddle, but the small trigger button on the front of the shifter will always be an upshift. By 'upshift' I always mean a harder gear. Yes, I know it's a numerically lower gear ratio and smaller cog, but I think there's a lot of precedent for calling it an upshift based on cars and other things in daily life with gears.


Weird, as thats the button i use to actuate my reverb...

(its on a rocker with the upper 'button' but the actual button is under the part at the front of the shifter)


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Magura matchmaker gets my AXS shifter the closest it's been to ideal yet, though it's not perfect as it doesn't allow quite enough upwards rotation leaving me with no choice but to point the lever down a few degrees more than ideal. 
Still, it's pretty darn good. 









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/sram_spc_-_revg_-_noembargo.pdf

PAge 48.

Anyone know if the AXS inner cages are unique or are they cross compatible with the manual XX1?

Had an issue with a crazy chain couple weeks ago, bent the inner cage on an XX1.

3 11.7518.092.002 REAR DERAILLEUR INNER CAGE XX1 EAGLE AXS LUNAR INCLUDING SCREWS

3 11.7518.092.003 REAR DERAILLEUR INNER CAGE X01 EAGLE AXS POLAR INCLUDING SCREWS


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

ColinL said:


> There's no feature or functional change in 2.4.2. It simply removes a bug - apparently a bad one, but I haven't seen anyone here complain of a bricked AXS derailleur.
> 
> You can easily switch the shifting of the paddle, but the small trigger button on the front of the shifter will always be an upshift. By 'upshift' I always mean a harder gear. Yes, I know it's a numerically lower gear ratio and smaller cog, but I think there's a lot of precedent for calling it an upshift based on cars and other things in daily life with gears.


Thanks for the info!
During the first ride, I did quite a dozen of mistakes, shifted to the ligher gear instead of the harder and the other way around. Next day I switched the two button functions and now it's more comportable to my taste. Okay, after 10+ years on Shimano only, I definitely need some time and have to learn this thing.

During last weekend: I had a real-world testing (racing in Austria) in low temperatures, 120 kms w/ 3800m vertical ascent, continuous raining, wind... More than 6 hours out there. Apart from my body (massive hypothermic reactions during the last 1.5 hours...), everything worked perfectly, the AXS worked like a dream!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

(A bit out of topic) I'm thinking to get myself an axs upgrade next month, BUT i think that new xtr aint a bad idea also! While i really like the electronic shifting i heard so many positive things for new xtr, (smooth shifting etc)! Anyone tried both to compare the shifting quality for both?


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## steinline (Jun 28, 2019)

So, I'm building a Forbidden druid, and going to save some $$$ by using my old X01 11 speed mech and shifter and a new e-thirteen 9-46 cassette. I know ultimately I want AXS, and have to choose a post. I have a bike yoke slotted for the build (which is still not cheap @ $375 USD, but am thinking if I know I want AXS eventually, should I just pop for the AXS reverb now? 

Just not seeing much "long term" feedback on the AXS reverb yet, but it appears "all" of the old issues have been addressed, and the instantaneous reaction, and "light" action of the remote seem like great aspects of the unit (not to mention no wires, cables or hoses). I tend to be an early adopter with new tech, sometimes that approach is good, sometimes not...

Thoughts?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

My AXS upgrade kit is arriving tomorrow, any issues with installing it yourself? Any tips or tricks or is it straight forward. I know SRAM has a good AXS installation video, just wondering if they missed anything. 

Also, how are you filling in the holes for the old cables at the head tube and at the chain stay?


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

jon123 said:


> This is a little concerning. Any one else had or heard of this issue?


Yup, 3 weeks ago. LBS consulted SRAM. SRAM determined it was stuck in diagnostic mode. SRAM warrantied it with another unit LBS had in stock. SRAM noted it was the first failure they knew of in the way. Apparently it wasn't.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

ColinL said:


> There's no feature or functional change in 2.4.2. It simply removes a bug - apparently a bad one, but I haven't seen anyone here complain of a bricked AXS derailleur.
> 
> You can easily switch the shifting of the paddle, but the small trigger button on the front of the shifter will always be an upshift. By 'upshift' I always mean a harder gear. Yes, I know it's a numerically lower gear ratio and smaller cog, but I think there's a lot of precedent for calling it an upshift based on cars and other things in daily life with gears.


Bricked one 3 weeks ago.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

MI-XC said:


> My AXS upgrade kit is arriving tomorrow, any issues with installing it yourself? Any tips or tricks or is it straight forward. I know SRAM has a good AXS installation video, just wondering if they missed anything.
> 
> Also, how are you filling in the holes for the old cables at the head tube and at the chain stay?


no issues installing. I use carbon fiber imitation stickers to cover holes (ali express $1 a sheet) or I use black RTV. I am not a fan of the AXS system. Overpriced, and my 11 speed setups and my one 12 speed manual setups outperform it in every metric except for shifting speed, exp at the $1900 xx1 price point. I got $100 off, whuupetee doo. lol.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Anger said:


> no issues installing. I use carbon fiber imitation stickers to cover holes (ali express $1 a sheet) or I use black RTV. I am not a fan of the AXS system. Overpriced, and my 11 speed setups and my one 12 speed manual setups outperform it in every metric except for shifting speed, exp at the $1900 xx1 price point. I got $100 off, whuupetee doo. lol.


Paid $1,000 on the upgrade kit. You're crazy, went on a 3 hour MTB ride today and it was amazing and flawless. Even through the slick, sandy and rainy weather, every shift was spot on caked in mud. It's such an improvement and I'm loving the trigger shifter. Not to mention the long hold of shifting through the entire cassette.

Jury still out on long term performance, but I already can never go back to mechanical shifting, lol. It's akin to cutting the cord from my home phone when cordless came out.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

MI-XC said:


> Paid $1,000 on the upgrade kit. You're crazy, went on a 3 hour MTB ride today and it was amazing and flawless. Even through the slick, sandy and rainy weather, every shift was spot on caked in mud. It's such an improvement and I'm loving the trigger shifter. Not to mention the long hold of shifting through the entire cassette.
> 
> Jury still out on long term performance, but I already can never go back to mechanical shifting, lol. It's akin to cutting the cord from my home phone when cordless came out.


The dropper is the same way. Super ergonomic, easy clean install, and it's FAST to respond. The time delay from when you click the switch is imperceptible to me. It's stupid expensive, but it is a joy to use.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

numbnuts said:


> Yup, 3 weeks ago. LBS consulted SRAM. SRAM determined it was stuck in diagnostic mode. SRAM warrantied it with another unit LBS had in stock. SRAM noted it was the first failure they knew of in the way. Apparently it wasn't.


Wow. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised, obviously the failure rate was greater than zero, if they bothered to release new firmware.

I had my first issue last week, in the middle of a trip to Colorado. I have previously ridden AXS through mud, and I think it was even briefly submerged during a water crossing, but no problems until now. (During the crossing I was concentrating on getting across, not on exactly how deep in the water I was.)

We had finished riding the lifts at Copper Mountain (which, btw, sucked because there was no access to half of the mountain ) and were riding back down the path to Frisco. My bike had sat for about 15 minutes. I hopped on and tried to shift and it wouldn't respond either up or down on the paddle. Nothing from the front button either.

I stopped and got off, and pushed the button on the derailleur. Nothing.

Pulled the battery off the derailleur and waited a few seconds, then reinstalled. Pushed the button on the derailleur and it came to life with a green LED. Hmm.

Hopped on and continued riding. It's worked normally about 12-16 hours of riding since then. Has anyone else had an issue like that?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

ColinL said:


> I stopped and got off, and pushed the button on the derailleur. Nothing.
> 
> Pulled the battery off the derailleur and waited a few seconds, then reinstalled. Pushed the button on the derailleur and it came to life with a green LED. Hmm.
> 
> Hopped on and continued riding. It's worked normally about 12-16 hours of riding since then. Has anyone else had an issue like that?


On first setup the controller/shifter stopped communicating when I was trying to make micro-adjustments to the derailleur. Tried pressing the controller pair button and nothing, light wouldn't even come on. The derailleur was also making a constant ticking noise. Did a long hold on the derailleur, then on the controller, and was able to get it all re-synced without further issues. I think with most electronics we own, sometimes it just needs a "hard reset" to dump whatever issue it's having. Most common issues with phones, computers, Ipads, cable boxes, smart TVs, etc. can be solved by removing the power source for 1 min, then restarting everything. This may be the fix for AXS as well.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I got mine today, and took a short ride. Love it. I can't wait to really spend some time with this thing. It appears to be everything I was hoping for.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Whoops. I think I fixed what I had posted about.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Gregg K said:


> Whoops. I think I fixed what I had posted about.


?!? what was it?


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

mfa81 said:


> ?!? what was it?


I thought I had it, but no. Mine isn't waking from sleep.

I click the shifter, and nothing happens. I have to push the derailleur button to wake it, then it works.

edit- It just worked. Then I removed the shifter, thinking perhaps it's a low battery condition. I brought the shifter right up to the derailleur, and it didn't work. Don't know what's going on. Derailleur battery is totally charged.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Gregg K said:


> I thought I had it, but no. Mine isn't waking from sleep.
> 
> I click the shifter, and nothing happens. I have to push the derailleur button to wake it, then it works.
> 
> edit- It just worked. Then I removed the shifter, thinking perhaps it's a low battery condition. I brought the shifter right up to the derailleur, and it didn't work. Don't know what's going on. Derailleur battery is totally charged.


Definitely sounds better than a cable- good luck.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Gregg - 

Do you have the SRAM AXS app installed on your smartphone? If not, get it, and open it up then push the button on the derailleur to wake it up and ensure that you see the green LED on it.

In the app, discover and see what you get. If you only get the derailleur, and not also the shifter, you have an issue with the shifter pod which could be a low/dead battery, pairing issue, or something else. If you do see the shifter, it's normal for it to be greyed out in the app because the derailleur controls it.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

should just the shifter do the wake up or you also need movement?


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

ColinL said:


> Gregg -
> 
> Do you have the SRAM AXS app installed on your smartphone? If not, get it, and open it up then push the button on the derailleur to wake it up and ensure that you see the green LED on it.
> 
> In the app, discover and see what you get. If you only get the derailleur, and not also the shifter, you have an issue with the shifter pod which could be a low/dead battery, pairing issue, or something else. If you do see the shifter, it's normal for it to be greyed out in the app because the derailleur controls it.


Thanks! I called the bike shop, and they said they had the same problem with theirs, but it stopped when they got the app, and has been fine since. I downloaded the app, and so far it has been good. I'll see how it goes. And I appreciate the comment regarding the shaded out controller. I wasn't sure about that. But I was able to configure it, so it's good. Yay for now!

5 minutes later, and it's not working. argh


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

Got it!

My bike is being built on the stand. So it's totally stationary. But the way sleep mode works, until the derailleur is moved, the accelerometer doesn't wake it. So if I move the bike, or turn the pedals, it wakes right up. So it's all working as it should.


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## Calhoun (Nov 11, 2008)

MI-XC said:


> My AXS upgrade kit is arriving tomorrow, any issues with installing it yourself? Any tips or tricks or is it straight forward. I know SRAM has a good AXS installation video, just wondering if they missed anything.
> 
> Also, how are you filling in the holes for the old cables at the head tube and at the chain stay?


Not sure if these are universal, but the price is cheap enough to experiment with.

https://www.yeticycles.com/gear/parts/frame-plug-cable-port-kit-axs


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I had to trim the AXS shifter button because it was bumping my brake lever. 
Works well now.









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

So that's why all those Specialized pro's running Magura's ride mechanical XX1.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Suns_PSD said:


> I had to trim the AXS shifter button because it was bumping my brake lever.
> Works well now.
> 
> 
> ...


I can't quite put mine where i want it either. The elephant ear hits my brake clamp.

It's not the most ergonomic or intuitive design for sure.

Overall, the AXS rides well, it just feels like an unrefined prototype version of Di2. I did just find out the system transmits gearing data however, so you can have a visual display on your computer when riding. My first few rides on it, I was quite surprised there was no audible alarm as to you being in the extreme ends of your gearing. The visual capability makes that okay now.


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I've got a week of short rides on mine, and I absolutely love it.

I also think the shifter is a bit weird. I'm lucky that I totally like it. Even so, I have mine at a very steep angle so it misses the top tube in the event of a crash. It probably needs more adjustability to meet the various rider demands. It might have been better to just have two buttons instead of the thumb cradle thing.


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks for sharing the mismatch-related info with Maguras, good to know!

I installed mine on a Trickstuff Piccola with Trickstuff's Avid adapter and AXS shifter works perfectly with it. My only complain is that, I cannot fine-tune the angle of the AXS shifter because the Trickstuff adapter has a fixed position, so I can only rotate it together with the brake lever.

Nevertheless, I am very satisfied with the AXS' performance, shifts flawlessly and quickly. I've already done two hard races with it (Montafon M3 and Ischgl Ironbike 'Hard') where we had rainy & muddy conditions. I didn't have a single issue with the AXS, fortunately.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

semmiho said:


> Thanks for sharing the mismatch-related info with Maguras, good to know!
> 
> I installed mine on a Trickstuff Piccola with Trickstuff's Avid adapter and AXS shifter works perfectly with it. My only complain is that, I cannot fine-tune the angle of the AXS shifter because the Trickstuff adapter has a fixed position, so I can only rotate it together with the brake lever.
> 
> Nevertheless, I am very satisfied with the AXS' performance, shifts flawlessly and quickly. I've already done two hard races with it (Montafon M3 and Ischgl Ironbike 'Hard') where we had rainy & muddy conditions. I didn't have a single issue with the AXS, fortunately.


I have some Trickstuff brakes on order, thanks for confirming my presumption of crap adjustability with the combo clamps! I'm a little picky on brake lever orientation but AXS controller orientation is paramount for correct ergo. Looks like I'll be staying with separate clamps.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

farfromovin said:


> I have some Trickstuff brakes on order, thanks for confirming my presumption of crap adjustability with the combo clamps! I'm a little picky on brake lever orientation but AXS controller orientation is paramount for correct ergo. Looks like I'll be staying with separate clamps.


I have the Piccola, their adapters, and AXS. Works fine. But yes no adjustment in placement.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Third ride with AXS! Feeling much smoother than the mechanical and also i think they have made great job syncing the chain correctly to the two largest. I was like desynced it only once in three rides. Still trying to figure the correct position for the shifter. with the same mmx(right), shifter is more closer to hand compared to the mechanical shifter, so i ordered the left mmx. Also while the lower paddle fits great my finger and the movement of the finger feels physical, the upper one doesnt fit so good to my finger and i have a feel that the movement is a bit diagonical upwards. If i adjust the upper "correct" then the lower paddle goes the other way. Well maybe is a matter of practice!


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## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

turbo levo has gx. Can I use this or is it only for xx1?


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

As I posted earlier, I put Eagle AXS on a Niner Air 9 RDO that I built with Leadville in mind. I did the race last weekend.

Leading up to the race everything was working great. I preroad the course over three days and did a number of other shorter rides. The night before the race I recharged the derailleur battery and also had a spare battery that I left in my emergency bag with my pit crew. I had two Eagle chains and put a freshly waxed chain on for race day. 

One race day everything started out well. A little over three hours in I hit the long Columbine climb and had a major issue. Part way up the climb the system stopped shifting. I was in my 50T in the rear and wanted to shift up and no response. I hit the trigger multiple times but nothing, just dead. No motor noise, nothing. 

Shortly after this I noticed my heart rate was also no longer displaying on my Garmin 830. I was using a Whoop 3.0 HR strap and broadcasting HR via Ant+. It had been working fine but now at the same time the shifting stopped working I lost HR. My Garmin was still reading my Quarq PM which I think was synced over Bluetooth. 

I pedaled on and thought the battery must have died for some reason. I had my spare with my crew at the bottom of Columbine, so I figured I'd just finish climb in 50T. I go past as other riders used taller gears in the less steep sections where I was spinning out. Periodically I'd hit the shift button, but still nothing. 

As I got closer to the the top, there are some sections you have to walk. As I got back on my bike after one of the walking sections I reflexively hit the shifter and heard the whir of the derailleur motor. It shifted!! I looked down at my Garmin and heart rate was back. So crazy! 

I carried on and had no further issues for my 9 hour and 24 min race. I did not change the battery during my next stop with crew. 

Looking at my data post ride I had lost heart rate for just under 30 minutes, the same time that I lost shifting. 

What I can't figure out is what caused the loss of HR signal and also broke the connection between shifter and derailleur at the same time?? 

I'd like to reach out to SRAM and this information to their engineers because something was clearly wrong that caused interference that led to the problem, but I don't know who to contact. I will also let my LBS store know and see what they say.


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

Really strange, sorry to read you had this issue. These things can be so so annoying during a race...
I'm curious what'll be the enginers' answer, please keep us posted! 

Regarding mine: 1238 kms, 4 long races so far (Salzkammergut Trophy - dist 'B', Montafon M3, Ischgl Ironbike - distance 'Hard', Austrian nationals XCM - Classic), no issue.
Also measured the chain with ParkTool CC-2 and no measurable difference (rainbow chain). I'm using the 'dry' version from Squirt Lube.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Kuttermax.....did it happen under the powerlines?
I have had h/r monitors flake out under powerlines.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Kuttermax.....did it happen under the powerlines?
> I have had h/r monitors flake out under powerlines.


No powerlines around that I saw. I had also ridden the same area the week before with no issues.

Usually if there is interference you see things cut in and out. This was more like it was turned off like a switch, and then switched back on a half hour later.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

semmiho said:


> Really strange, sorry to read you had this issue. These things can be so so annoying during a race...
> I'm curious what'll be the enginers' answer, please keep us posted!
> 
> Regarding mine: 1238 kms, 4 long races so far (Salzkammergut Trophy - dist 'B', Montafon M3, Ischgl Ironbike - distance 'Hard', Austrian nationals XCM - Classic), no issue.
> Also measured the chain with ParkTool CC-2 and no measurable difference (rainbow chain). I'm using the 'dry' version from Squirt Lube.


Semmiho, what computer are you using?

I posted a month or so ago that I had my xx1 axs lock up trying to ride back from a day on the lifts, via the bike path. I did not have a computer paired at that time. (I had pre ordered a Wahoo Roam but it hadn't arrived yet. I do have it installed and paired to axs now.)

Fortunately for me, I just dismounted and removed the battery, and when I reinserted it axs started working again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Kuttermax said:


> No powerlines around that I saw. I had also ridden the same area the week before with no issues.
> 
> Usually if there is interference you see things cut in and out. This was more like it was turned off like a switch, and then switched back on a half hour later.


Huh....weird.
I put a few hundred miles on AXS,,,including a 6 hour race in rain and deep mud and water. No issues besides wearing out a chain.
But...I sold that bike a few weeks back.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Yeah, this is the exact info SRAM engineers need to analyze and push firmware/hardware tweaks as necessary. The standard for reliability has to be 100%. It’s probably that .1% of the time that it has issues but that’s too much imo. I’m sure they will continue to improve as they get more data/failed parts. Sucks it happened in a race though!


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Anyone know of a good email to contact SRAM at? I looked on website and couldn't find one.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Kuttermax said:


> Anyone know of a good email to contact SRAM at? I looked on website and couldn't find one.


Have the dealer who sold you axs contact sram. They don't sell direct to consumers, thus, they don't want to deal directly with consumers.

Also, I read your other post again and realized that you didn't try to pull the battery to reset the system. If it happens again, I'd certainly suggest that. I haven't had it happen to me again, but I did have the battery die before I was paired to my computer. Now I should get a warning.. Haven't ridden to failure again, yet, to test it out.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

I've had more riding time with this shifter, and I take back what I said above about it being weird. I rotated it to the position where I use my thumb for downshifts, and my forefinger for upshifts. I use the front of the shift paddle exclusively for upshifts. I have to say this thing is fantastic. I came from dual control, and at first kept pushing on my brake lever to change gears. Needless to say that was futile, and after changing the shifter position I find this to be totally fitting. Also what's nice is that there is almost no actual hand movement to initiate shifts. 

I have double shifted on occasions, but I've learned to be more decisive in the shifts, and then move away from the shifter.

It's nice when something turns out to be as good as expected.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Anybody tried shimano cassette/chain with axs derailleur??


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

cycloholic said:


> Anybody tried shimano cassette/chain with axs derailleur??


Yes I have it on mine, and It's no better than XO 10-50 with a Sram chain.


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

I got my AXS drive train on my new SB100. Love it. Perfect shifts all the time with no cable issues.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Well, I have thoroughly beaten the piss out of my XX1 AXS rear derailleur. I've broken the clutch cover off, and mangled two derailleur hangers. The unit itself looks like it has survived a war or three but it still shifts like a champ. I'm not sure if I should be impressed with it's durability or annoyed at how often it snags rocks.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Just ordered my X01 upgrade kit today! Excited to try it out, it's a big chunk to pay but mountain biking is seriously the only vice I have left so fcuk it!


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

scatterbrained said:


> Well, I have thoroughly beaten the piss out of my XX1 AXS rear derailleur. I've broken the clutch cover off, and mangled two derailleur hangers. The unit itself looks like it has survived a war or three but it still shifts like a champ. I'm not sure if I should be impressed with it's durability or annoyed at how often it snags rocks.


Got pics?


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Tom Howard said:


> Got pics?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Wow, you weren't kidding!


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Got mine installed today, wow. Setup and dialing it in was so simple, and the shifts are so crisp and easy. I’m coming off of mechanical GX Eagle.


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## paulc86 (May 18, 2017)

Thinking of making the leap. A little apprehensive. Talk me out of it. Either AXS XO1 or mechanical XX1. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

paulc86 said:


> Thinking of making the leap. A little apprehensive. Talk me out of it. Either AXS XO1 or mechanical XX1.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Having had mech and AXS XX1, the ergonomics of AXS is just phenomenal to me. If you got the cash, go AXS. Not having to move your hands very much while shifting is pretty beneficial for me. I can maintain a normal grip while riding, shifting, maneuvering obstacles and that's very nice.

That being said, it doesn't shift that much better than a well tuned mech eagle and you still have to have a straight derailleur hanger and a well positioned b gap.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

paulc86 said:


> Thinking of making the leap. A little apprehensive. Talk me out of it. Either AXS XO1 or mechanical XX1.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got out today for my first dirt ride with X01 AXS and I'm smitten. Hard to believe how easy it shifts, that was my biggest a-ha moment. Setup was dead easy. I really really like it. Yes, it was expensive but it's my passion so I'm always tinkering. Only
Thing I'll have to adjust to is my thumb position, I did brush it several times today and cause a shift, but that's more about my mechanics than the product.

Not a scientific answer, but hopefully helpful none the less.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

blaklabl said:


> I got out today for my first dirt ride with X01 AXS and I'm smitten. Hard to believe how easy it shifts, that was my biggest a-ha moment. Setup was dead easy. I really really like it. Yes, it was expensive but it's my passion so I'm always tinkering. Only
> Thing I'll have to adjust to is my thumb position, I did brush it several times today and cause a shift, but that's more about my mechanics than the product.
> 
> Not a scientific answer, but hopefully helpful none the less.


I made a MAJOR change in my shifter location. I ended up rotating it way more under the bars, and further outboard than I had originally thought. Huge difference in feel, and accessibility.

Its still not close to Shimano Di2 as far as shifting tactility, or smoothness, but it IS a nice system.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

DethWshBkr said:


> I made a MAJOR change in my shifter location. I ended up rotating it way more under the bars, and further outboard than I had originally thought. Huge difference in feel, and accessibility.
> 
> Its still not close to Shimano Di2 as far as shifting tactility, or smoothness, but it IS a nice system.


I'd love a picture if you could post one? I'm sure I'll experiment a bit but would like to see what you came up with. Thanks!


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## paulc86 (May 18, 2017)

blaklabl said:


> I got out today for my first dirt ride with X01 AXS and I'm smitten. Hard to believe how easy it shifts, that was my biggest a-ha moment. Setup was dead easy. I really really like it. Yes, it was expensive but it's my passion so I'm always tinkering. Only
> Thing I'll have to adjust to is my thumb position, I did brush it several times today and cause a shift, but that's more about my mechanics than the product.
> 
> Not a scientific answer, but hopefully helpful none the less.


I can get AXS for about €150 more than the xx1. Pretty good deal I think

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pegleg81 (Aug 6, 2014)

MI-XC said:


> Also, how are you filling in the holes for the old cables at the head tube and at the chain stay?


I was told by the Specialized tent that the plug can be hard to find and that for the pros bikes they use a shaved part of an eraser at the pencil tip and black it out using a Sharpie.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Any auto parts supply place has plastic body panel things. They work fine. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

yeti also is making plugs for their frames, I'd think it would work for some other frames as well not just yetis.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

What sort of battery life is everyone getting?
I just had my first ever electronic shifting ride ruining failure due to dead battery.

I estimsted 8-9 hours on this last charge!


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

My experience is, led turns to red from green after ~15 hours of riding.

This Eagle AXS was one of my best MTB investments in the last 5 years (after the power meter).


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## gling (Apr 24, 2006)

Problem solvers sell these:

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...lOjkavY3vdHDv81Cvxv9twE17a8cYpCRoCimcQAvD_BwE

If they are a tad bit small, screw a small fastener in the back of it before installing to expand it a little bit more.

My only complaint about the AXS system aside from price is that I don't have a matching gold dropper post (with respect to my fork) anymore ?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

DethWshBkr said:


> What sort of battery life is everyone getting?
> I just had my first ever electronic shifting ride ruining failure due to dead battery.
> 
> I estimsted 8-9 hours on this last charge!


I ride about 2x/ week for about 2.5 hours, shift a lot, and am seeing a single charge last 2+ months easily.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

DethWshBkr said:


> What sort of battery life is everyone getting?
> I just had my first ever electronic shifting ride ruining failure due to dead battery.
> 
> I estimsted 8-9 hours on this last charge!


If you're truly only getting 8-9 hours then you have a faulty battery. I'd say I get 20+ hours. I also have a spare battery I always carry with me on every ride, they're only $50 and worth the piece of mind. When shifting before each ride, take a glance at the color of the light on the derailleur. If it's red then I wouldn't go out before it's recharged.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

MI-XC said:


> If you're truly only getting 8-9 hours then you have a faulty battery. I'd say I get 20+ hours. I also have a spare battery I always carry with me on every ride, they're only $50 and worth the piece of mind. When shifting before each ride, take a glance at the color of the light on the derailleur. If it's red then I wouldn't go out before it's recharged.


I would agree - seems like a faulty battery.
I'm easily getting the 20 or so hours Sram claims.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

The battery mine came with easily lasts 40 hours. Even when my app said critically low, it got me through 15 miles of singletrack and still didn't die. I have a backup I haven't tried yet. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

MI-XC said:


> If you're truly only getting 8-9 hours then you have a faulty battery. I'd say I get 20+ hours. I also have a spare battery I always carry with me on every ride, they're only $50 and worth the piece of mind. When shifting before each ride, take a glance at the color of the light on the derailleur. If it's red then I wouldn't go out before it's recharged.


I guess Ill try to see how long this latest charge lasts.

I charged it up before a relay ride/race two weeks ago. I have no idea what the battery was at before that charge. I show 5 rides including that ride, from 1 hour to 1.75 hours. So, I totaled up about 8 hours on my Strava.


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## steinercat (Apr 25, 2014)

farfromovin said:


> Had my first ride with AXS today. I really like the ergonomics, think SRAM nailed it. I ran the "controllers" much lower than traditional shifters/remotes but that's kinda due to the shape of the paddles. I never had a miss shift or shifted the wrong direction. I wouldn't say it shifts better than my mech Eagle (maybe a tiny bit) but it's way easier to shift. Just a blip of the thumb and the shift happened. Honestly, one of the huge benefits in my eyes is just getting rid of more cables. I like a quiet, simple bike. I guess it's not that simple if I gotta recharge batteries but you get what I mean.


What chainstay protector is that? Or is that just tape?

Thanks!


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## keb (Jul 5, 2017)

I get between 40-50 hours of XC riding time.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

steinercat said:


> What chainstay protector is that? Or is that just tape?
> 
> Thanks!


That's ESI silicone tape. It's not the best solution as it'll get chunked up from rocks every year, but it's not too speedy to replace.
https://www.jensonusa.com/ESI-Silicone-Tape-10-Roll


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## db3266 (Nov 7, 2014)

Would be interested to see pics of your shifter setup. I’ve played around with a few positions but not found one that I’m 100% happy with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ovenboi (Nov 20, 2009)

Hi Everyone,

I did some searches on the net but have not seen the problem I currently have.

I was hoping someone might be able to help.

I have Eagle AXS on my Mtb and still rode last night. This morning the rear derailer is "dead" no light when pressing the button. The controller lights up fine. App updated and when pressing "Connect" a Yellow light stays on on the derailer. No shifting no communication nothing. Even changed to a different battery.

I've had it for about 4 months now without any problem before - sending the derailer to the Agents tomorrow. Has anyone had this ?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Have you tried removing the battery and , first checking the charge, then reinstalling?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Have you tried removing the battery and , first checking the charge, then reinstalling?


Wouldn't changing the battery out to another one pretty much cover that? Again have to assume a person have the common sense to make sure the new battery was charged.


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## Ovenboi (Nov 20, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Wouldn't changing the battery out to another one pretty much cover that? Again have to assume a person have the common sense to make sure the new battery was charged.


I initially thought it might be a battery problem - took original battery and charged it again - no change - took another new battery and also no change.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Ovenboi said:


> I have Eagle AXS on my Mtb and still rode last night. This morning the rear derailer is "dead" no light when pressing the button. The controller lights up fine. App updated and when pressing "Connect" a Yellow light stays on on the derailer. No shifting no communication nothing. Even changed to a different battery


A friend of mine had the exact same issue. Worked fine, the next day the derailleur is dead, yellow light. Derailleur was replaced under warranty by SRAM.
From what I read, this is one of the reasons they updated the firmware. Were you on the latest version? My friend was on the stock version, right after the groupset was released.


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## Ovenboi (Nov 20, 2009)

madskatingcow said:


> A friend of mine had the exact same issue. Worked fine, the next day the derailleur is dead, yellow light. Derailleur was replaced under warranty by SRAM.
> From what I read, this is one of the reasons they updated the firmware. Were you on the latest version? My friend was on the stock version, right after the groupset was released.


I'm so glad I'm not the pioneer of new faults and someone have had it before  When the App did not connect I went and updated it to the latest version.

I was on the stock firmware and haven't had a chance to update it yet since there is no communication to the Derailleur. Thanks for the input it would be interesting to know
what is causing it though. Imagine you are riding a stage race and suddenly you are singlespeeding along.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Guys, I need some ideas. I would have never thought I have to ask around because of shifting problems.

On my old bike (HT), as well as on my new build (FS) - I have taken all components from the old bike - I've trouble with AXS shifting up from the smallest cog. This is very slow, takes a few revolutions. If I microadjust other gears are messed up.

* I've already played around with chain gap, does not help.
* As it occurs on both bikes somethin like a bent hanger or strange frame geometry can be ruled out. Crank is a perfect Boost chainline. Tried different cassettes (X01, GX, Garbaruk), all are stubborn on the smallest or second smallest cog

I have no idea what it could be else ...


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Have you tried backing out the B screw a bit?


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

quax said:


> Guys, I need some ideas. I would have never thought I have to ask around because of shifting problems.
> 
> On my old bike (HT), as well as on my new build (FS) - I have taken all components from the old bike - I've trouble with AXS shifting up from the smallest cog. This is very slow, takes a few revolutions. If I microadjust other gears are messed up.
> 
> ...


Just guessing, but perhaps it's the limit adjustment. I would bring it inward a bit and see what that does.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

quax said:


> Guys, I need some ideas. I would have never thought I have to ask around because of shifting problems.
> 
> On my old bike (HT), as well as on my new build (FS) - I have taken all components from the old bike - I've trouble with AXS shifting up from the smallest cog. This is very slow, takes a few revolutions. If I microadjust other gears are messed up.
> 
> ...


Check your hanger. it is most likely bent.
Next reduce your b screw gap.
last limit screws.


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## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

Ovenboi said:


> I'm so glad I'm not the pioneer of new faults and someone have had it before  When the App did not connect I went and updated it to the latest version.
> 
> I was on the stock firmware and haven't had a chance to update it yet since there is no communication to the Derailleur. Thanks for the input it would be interesting to know
> what is causing it though. Imagine you are riding a stage race and suddenly you are singlespeeding along.


Firmware updates for better RD reliability tells us we truly are at a different era of mountain biking. How time flies!


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

As pointed out in my initial post

* B-screw
* bent hanger

were checked and/or can be ruled out.

The limit screw is an interesting one. Followed the instructions in the SRAM manual (the process with backing it off 1/4 turn). And as a Di2 owner I'm a little bit weary of deviating from this as Shimano clearly states not to do so (battery life and so).

However, after reading this:

"_*So, get those limit screws tight, as that seemed to solve all of the problems*_"

https://bikerumor.com/2019/07/09/unboxed-sram-eagle-axs-xx1-xo1-actual-weights-install-notes/

After some iterative microadjusting and limit screw 1/100 turns I could solve the issue ... at least on the stand in the basement. Will see when I get out.


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

quax said:


> As pointed out in my initial post
> 
> * B-screw
> * bent hanger
> ...


I don't know how much experience you have with Eagle, but we can tell you that you can never rule out a hanger issue. I've straightened brand new ones.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

you mean replacing the hanger 3 times within 2 weeks on the old frame, and twice within one week on the new frame was not sufficient to get some certainty?

Riding Eagle basically since day 1, always found it finicky to set up. Mechanical or electronic. But I guess this is true with all new drivetrain stuff as tolerances get tighter and tighter.

First ride out, not entirely happy yet with the shifting.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

quax said:


> you mean replacing the hanger 3 times within 2 weeks on the old frame, and twice within one week on the new frame was not sufficient to get some certainty?
> 
> Riding Eagle basically since day 1, always found it finicky to set up. Mechanical or electronic. But I guess this is true with all new drivetrain stuff as tolerances get tighter and tighter.
> 
> First ride out, not entirely happy yet with the shifting.


have you used a derailleur alignment tool/gauge? Simply putting on new hangers and assuming that one of them will be straight, unfortunately, will not work.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Re-zero.

When I set mine up, it would not shift properly. 
AT ALL.

I found out that the "gear stepping" was off. In other words, gear 12 was not actually gear 12. It was "off".
I had to completely open up the limit screws, and shift until it would not shift any more towards the small cog.
Then, set the limit screw. Then go the whole way to the large cog, and set the limit. Then, follow the trimming procedure.


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## Bones2 (Jul 8, 2006)

Do I need to remove battery on long drives while on bike rack to prevent battery drainage? Will the battery drain while being bounced around on a car?
What “wakes” the shifter and derailler? Motion, spinning crank? Just pressing controller button while bike is sitting still does not seem to wake. 

Thank you!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

No. 
It's not jostling that wakes it, it's pressing the controller. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> No.
> It's not jostling that wakes it, it's pressing the controller.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Not on mine. It's when I rotate wheel that wakes it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Bones2 (Jul 8, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> No.
> It's not jostling that wakes it, it's pressing the controller.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


If my bike is still and off. Pressing the button does not wake it. Wheel needs to rotate first. I just don't know if bouncing around on a bike rack will activate it.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Bones2 said:


> If my bike is still and off. Pressing the button does not wake it. Wheel needs to rotate first. I just don't know if bouncing around on a bike rack will activate it.


just bouncing will wake it up, if the rd is out of the bike I remember shaking it would make it work again


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't think the AXS RD has either a 'jostling' sensor nor a wheel 'rotational' sensor. 
If you shake it hard enough off the bike I assume the over protection clutch gets activated as it thinks it's an impact. 
The led light on my RD comes on when I press my shifter button. 
I've also transported the bike all day in a truck with no issues with battery life. However being 'awake' (if it was even awake) probably doesn't use the batteries like actually shifting. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

There is definitely an accelerometer or another similar sensor. If the bike is stationary, you can "shift" all day long and nothing happens. 
Smack your seat hard, and it will shift. Rear wheel rotation has nothing to do with it.


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## Bones2 (Jul 8, 2006)

So then guess the question is how much battery drain is there when it’s on but no shifting. 
My assumption is minimal since the shifter battery that is much smaller last years. But I don’t know



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Bones2 said:


> So then guess the question is how much battery drain is there when it's on but no shifting.
> My assumption is minimal since the shifter battery that is much smaller last years. But I don't know
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Personally, I've ridden several days in a row without charging the battery. I've also ridden on a Sat., let the bike sit all week, and then taken it out the following Sat. Not that I make a habit of that, but I was relieved that the battery lasted.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

DethWshBkr said:


> There is definitely an accelerometer or another similar sensor. If the bike is stationary, you can "shift" all day long and nothing happens.
> Smack your seat hard, and it will shift. Rear wheel rotation has nothing to do with it.


You are right. Furthermore, I have very recent experience with EXACTLY the question that another user was asking - which is, does the RD engage if you have the bike on a rack.

The answer is YES! Last week I drove over 9 hours with the bike on the rack and the battery was dead upon arriving at the destination. I had only ridden two short rides on a fresh battery - maybe 3 or 4 hours of riding, at very most. There was no way those rides killed the battery.

This also explains why I've had wildly varying battery life. It's based on my distance from trails - the RD is alive much if not all the drive if you leave the battery in. Which I always had been, but won't any more. But if most/all my rides are from home I would see 30-40+ hours of life.

Kind of a nuisance but it's just another step I guess. Load bike on rack, remove battery, put in pocket. Unload bike from rack, install battery. It'll become routine.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ColinL said:


> You are right. Furthermore, I have very recent experience with EXACTLY the question that another user was asking - which is, does the RD engage if you have the bike on a rack.
> 
> The answer is YES! Last week I drove over 9 hours with the bike on the rack and the battery was dead upon arriving at the destination. I had only ridden two short rides on a fresh battery - maybe 3 or 4 hours of riding, at very most. There was no way those rides killed the battery.
> 
> ...


Lot of work just to eliminate wires that are run once and done.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

The longest I got out of my AXS battery was 25ish hours.
The shortest was 15ish....and that included a 45 degree 6.5 hour race in heavy mud.
Never gave it much thought as to whether it was awake in the vehicle.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

TwoTone said:


> Lot of work just to eliminate wires that are run once and done.


let's say that my wife agrees with you. that said, she can't be bothered to move the levers on her fork or shock from open to pedal mode... so I'm not sure you want to be in that camp. 

obviously cables work. it's been said ad nauseum here. also as been discussed why AXS is better. yes, there are drawbacks.


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

TwoTone said:


> Lot of work just to eliminate wires that are run once and done.


Yea it's so hard to disconnect a battery.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I took AXS on a 9 hour road trip, road 3 days in Bentonville, drove back 9 hours and I still didn't need to charge. Never removed my battery during that trip. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I have axs road group and get 40+ hours of shifting on the rear. Basically forever on the front as I only shifting about once a hour of riding. I did remove the batteries for a road trip just in case.
It only wakes up if u move it. No wheel sensors.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I took AXS on a 9 hour road trip, road 3 days in Bentonville, drove back 9 hours and I still didn't need to charge. Never removed my battery during that trip.


there's something else required to trigger the condition. perhaps axs needs to be awake, both shifter and RD, when the bike starts moving on the rack. if it goes to sleep before you move, maybe it stays asleep.

I loaded my bike last, and rode it to the rack, before my long trip. It was very likely awake when I rolled out of the driveway. On other rides, my bike will sit for more than long enough for everything to go to sleep, before I drive off.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

It wakes any time there is motion. If it didn't, it could not respond to the first shift.

I know with Di2, that is no issue, since the system is wired. 
However, with Di2, if you leave the bike mis geared (you shifted 2-3 times, but never pedaled) it does cause drain on the battery, as the motor is trying to shift the whole time, and is under load.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ColinL said:


> let's say that my wife agrees with you. that said, she can't be bothered to move the levers on her fork or shock from open to pedal mode... so I'm not sure you want to be in that camp.
> 
> obviously cables work. it's been said ad nauseum here. also as been discussed why AXS is better. yes, there are drawbacks.


While compared to cable sure, DI2 has had the crisp instant shifting everyone is raving about with AXS for years, but I get it- I've read for years how hard it was to run wires and find a spot for the battery.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Vin829 said:


> Yea it's so hard to disconnect a battery.


Sure if you think that's all this was referring to.


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## keb (Jul 5, 2017)

Maybe another perspective that I've noticed. I have gear number and battery indicator fields on my Garmin Edge. I would say that RD goes to sleep really quickly when you stop. But as soon as I move the cranks backwards a little bit (still standind, not riding), the Garmin notifies that it has found a "new" sensor (RD) - so it reconnects when pedalling back even though you are standing in one place. So I don't think that pressing the controller or moving the bike is necessary to wake up RD, it happens immediately when you move the cranks/chain. That would probably explain why battery can be drained when you have a bike in the car or on the rack. Due to slight movements of bike, the cranks move a little bit and that wakes up the RD?


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## dukduk (Aug 14, 2019)

Is the crank that comes with the XX1 AXS Quarq Power Ready? 8 bolt vs 3?


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

, 3 bolts


dukduk said:


> Is the crank that comes with the XX1 AXS Quarq Power Ready? 8 bolt vs 3?


Nope, 3 bolts


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

madskatingcow said:


> , 3 bolts
> 
> Nope, 3 bolts


I wanted a Quarq on my bike when I upgraded to AXS earlier this year and had to buy a whole new crank. SRAM is not offering a bundle at this time. Now that you can get the parts separately its 
less of an issue. However when I got mine it was still just the full bundles so I have a brand new XX1 crank that came with the upgrade kit. A Stages would have been a cheaper option but since this was my main racing bike for this season I preferred the Quarq.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

keb said:


> Maybe another perspective that I've noticed. I have gear number and battery indicator fields on my Garmin Edge. I would say that RD goes to sleep really quickly when you stop. But as soon as I move the cranks backwards a little bit (still standind, not riding), the Garmin notifies that it has found a "new" sensor (RD) - so it reconnects when pedalling back even though you are standing in one place. So I don't think that pressing the controller or moving the bike is necessary to wake up RD, it happens immediately when you move the cranks/chain. That would probably explain why battery can be drained when you have a bike in the car or on the rack. Due to slight movements of bike, the cranks move a little bit and that wakes up the RD?


Always glad to hear more input on this. My cranks do backpedal very easily if the bike is jarred. Only one or two teeth on the ratchet - but you can hear the clicking if you bump the bike stand in the garage, for example. That might be a differentiator for some bikes. Not saying this is a 'feature' just a possible difference.

Also, about the computer, my Wahoo Elemnt Roam doesn't show sensors going on/offline. Maybe your Garmin is configurable? - that seems like kind of a nuisance.

If my RD is asleep for a water or snack break, I get a blank on that field if it's on the current screen, and it will re-populate in about 3-4 seconds after I shift (which of course, wakes everything up). No notification about the sensor on the computer - just blank, then not blank.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I got an email from SRAM today announcing SRAM AXS Web beta testing. 


> What is SRAM AXS Web?
> 
> SRAM AXS Web gives you the ability to see stats from your AXS components. You will get deeper insights on how you and your bike are performing in your ride activities, receive notifications for rides, and have battery and service alerts pushed directly to your phone.











I signed up, but I can't actually participate yet because they only support Garmin bike computers and I use a Wahoo Roam. It says in the email they are adding additional vendors so we'll see how soon that happens.

There are a number of subscription services that do this data analysis, Strava Summit for example. I don't currently subscribe to any of those. Probably useful for someone racing, especially a pro. I'm curious but am not that serious and don't geek out on data.


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

ColinL said:


> I got an email from SRAM today announcing SRAM AXS Web beta testing.
> 
> View attachment 1284163
> 
> ...


How do you sign up for this?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Vin829 said:


> How do you sign up for this?


the link in the email I received looks like it's specific to me. it eventually lands at https://axs.sram.com/activities though.

you might have to be invited. whatever email you used to setup and register your AXS via the smartphone app. when you go into the AXS app on your phone, under the gear, you should see that email address.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

got one too.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

I didn't get any email but just signed up and connect with my garmin account, the website already shows my axs devices and bike profile from garmin, seems pretty sweet but I doubt it is actually useful


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## dukduk (Aug 14, 2019)

Anyone tried out that Sigeyi AXO?



Kuttermax said:


> I wanted a Quarq on my bike when I upgraded to AXS earlier this year and had to buy a whole new crank. SRAM is not offering a bundle at this time. Now that you can get the parts separately its
> less of an issue. However when I got mine it was still just the full bundles so I have a brand new XX1 crank that came with the upgrade kit. A Stages would have been a cheaper option but since this was my main racing bike for this season I preferred the Quarq.


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## Keithyk (Feb 3, 2016)

Hi guys, anyone here tried Eagle AXS with Sunrace 12 Speed cassette? Reason being I am hesitate to change the hub, currently using Shimano HG. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Question: Anyone use AXS with Edge 830 - I'm particularly interested in knowing if cassette gearing can be displayed on the GPS unit.

Got my AXS this weekend and couldn't be happier. Setup was simple. Shifts amazing and I definitely find myself shifting more than I did with my Eagle XO1 mechanical setup.

There are times when knowing what gear I'm in , without looking at the cassette, would be helpful and so perhaps it's time for me to upgrade my Edge 810 to an 830


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Question: Anyone use AXS with Edge 830 - I'm particularly interested in knowing if cassette gearing can be displayed on the GPS unit.
> 
> Got my AXS this weekend and couldn't be happier. Setup was simple. Shifts amazing and I definitely find myself shifting more than I did with my Eagle XO1 mechanical setup.
> 
> There are times when knowing what gear I'm in , without looking at the cassette, would be helpful and so perhaps it's time for me to upgrade my Edge 810 to an 830


Yep I use my AXS with my 830 and it works amazing. Will show me what gear and the battery level


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Vin829 said:


> Yep I use my AXS with my 830 and it works amazing. Will show me what gear and the battery level


Thanks! Time to upgrade


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Vin829 said:


> Yep I use my AXS with my 830 and it works amazing. Will show me what gear and the battery level


Agree. Works well with 830.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

With my Edge 520 the ride report always used to show me how many gears were used. This seems to be unavailable with the Edge 830.

The SRAM AXS Web beta testing website shows this information & more.

However, I have several issues

Elevation gain : 
AXS web app : shows for every ride 0m
Garmin connect : shows 1013m

Moving time : 
AXS web app : shows 04:17:18
Garmin connect : shows 03:33:59

Elapsed time: 
AXS web app : shows 04:22:53
Garmin connect : shows 04:07:57

Average speed: 
AXS web app : shows 16.7km/h
Garmin connect : shows 20.0km/h

Distance: 
AXS web app : shows 73km
Garmin connect : shows 71.21km

Gear usage : display in the AXS web app seems to be inconsistent
Sometimes I see 12 - 50T, other rides I see 14 - 50T.
I thought perhaps only the used gears were shown, but I see that for the ride with 12-50T, the 50T is listed as '--', so not used.
I have used the 10T yesterday, but it's not visible.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

^ Interesting and thanks for compiling.

I reckon I don't care as much about the data as you do. I'm really just interested in being able to view my gearing on the Edge in real-time.

I don't use a speed sensor and instead rely on the Headunit for my data. I know it's not the most accurate way to collect the data, but it's good enough for me.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

also works fine with 530, and there is the sram axs website you can connect your garmin connect account and look at the ride data related to you gear. it's pretty neat!


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

mfa81 said:


> also works fine with 530, and there is the sram axs website you can connect your garmin connect account and look at the ride data related to you gear. it's pretty neat!


Does the 530 show the gearing live on the unit, ie what cog you are in without having to look back at the cassette?


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

blaklabl said:


> Does the 530 show the gearing live on the unit, ie what cog you are in without having to look back at the cassette?


Yes


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

blaklabl said:


> Does the 530 show the gearing live on the unit, ie what cog you are in without having to look back at the cassette?


I'm assuming it's the same as Di2 with an Edge 520 where you can have a small data field where it shows the gear number or a larger one which has a graphic display to show the current gear:


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

My Wahoo Roam shows it as the graphic or number, not both. The graphic is pretty cheesy and not easy to quickly read, but I guess it's good to have options. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

One interesting thing.

I was curious how the Eagle AXS shifter works on an old 11-speed XX1 cassette, so I put an another wheel to my MTB, equipped with an XG-1195. (yes, please don't try this at home!)
Of course I didn't try to shift to the (non-existing) 50t cog. Nevertheless, shifting seemed to be perfect to all gears, even if spacing is slightly wider between the cogs on the 11-speed, as far as I know.
Chain was a gold SRAM XX1 Eagle chain. I didn't try under load.

Maybe if it would be possible to switch between 12-speed or 11-speed mode with the AXS app... That would be great, weight weenies would definitely love it!


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## dturcic (Sep 10, 2017)

Just from curiosity, in which gear do you leave eagle axs derailleur when not in use.
For mechanical it was best to leave it in smallest sprocket to reduce spring tension, but I think axs has reversed spring, so tension is lower in biggest 50t sprocket. Or am I wrong


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

dturcic said:


> Just from curiosity, in which gear do you leave eagle axs derailleur when not in use.
> For mechanical it was best to leave it in smallest sprocket to reduce spring tension, but I think axs has reversed spring, so tension is lower in biggest 50t sprocket. Or am I wrong


Whatever gear it was in at the end of the last ride


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

dturcic said:


> Just from curiosity, in which gear do you leave eagle axs derailleur when not in use.
> For mechanical it was best to leave it in smallest sprocket to reduce spring tension, but I think axs has reversed spring, so tension is lower in biggest 50t sprocket. Or am I wrong


You're wrong. It shouldn't be parked long-term in the largest cog, just like any other derailleur. Otherwise the gear selection doesn't matter for storage.


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## dturcic (Sep 10, 2017)

Ok, thanks 👍


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

If the spring that is loading the cage is made of steel and is *properly dimensioned*, it should not suffer from fatigue. The movement that the cage can make does(should) not exceed the "elastic area" of the spring, so the spring will always return to its original position and dimensions when released. There might be some micro cracks appearing over time and enough tensioning cycles that can cause "relaxation" of the spring, but I doubt that this would appear during a normal lifetime of a derailleur. So technically it should not matter in which position you keep the derailleur...


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Verttii said:


> So technically it should not matter in which position you keep the derailleur...


you could make that argument about any derailleur, not just axs. it's not going to break, but just looking at it fully extended, it isn't hard to imagine it being subjected to unnecessary stress. therefore, most people generally advise not to park in the largest cog.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

ColinL said:


> you could make that argument about any derailleur, not just axs. it's not going to break, but just looking at it fully extended, it isn't hard to imagine it being subjected to unnecessary stress. therefore, most people generally advise not to park in the largest cog.


But again, if the parts are *properly dimensioned*, this "unnecessary stress" should not cause any performance degradation, as the yield strength* is not exceeded. The stresses on dynamic situations are by far more stressing for the spring and other parts, than leaving the derailleur parked on the largest cog for a day/week/month/year...
_
* I'm not quite certain if this term is correct in english language... 
_


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## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Anyone else having clutch issues on their XX1 groupset? The picture below is chain slap from a simple bunnyhop on flat ground in the 5th smallest cog. The RD whipped around way more than it should IMO with the chain almost slapping on the ground. When I get in anything rough this groupset is looser and louder than the GX I have on my hardtail. This doesn't happen all the time, but definitely more often than not like 75/25


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

GatorXman said:


> Anyone else having clutch issues on their XX1 groupset? The picture below is chain slap from a simple bunnyhop on flat ground in the 5th smallest cog. The RD whipped around way more than it should IMO with the chain almost slapping on the ground. When I get in anything rough this groupset is looser and louder than the GX I have on my hardtail. This doesn't happen all the time, but definitely more often than not like 75/25
> 
> View attachment 1294903


what bike is that? it looks like you've bottomed out after doing a bunnyhop, which pretty much should never happen. this probably (definitely) isn't the right thread to get into shock setup, but it doesn't look right.

at any rate, your bike has chainstay growth under compression and a lot of pedal feedback, then I would wonder if your chain is so heavily loaded when you bottom out that the overload clutch engages and the derailleur tucks forward.


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## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

ColinL said:


> what bike is that? it looks like you've bottomed out after doing a bunnyhop, which pretty much should never happen. this probably (definitely) isn't the right thread to get into shock setup, but it doesn't look right.
> 
> at any rate, your bike has chainstay growth under compression and a lot of pedal feedback, then I would wonder if your chain is so heavily loaded when you bottom out that the overload clutch engages and the derailleur tucks forward.


Bike is a Ibis Ripley V4. Rear shock has higher pressure than recommended and a larger spacer. I rarely have hard bottomed on the trail, so I don't know if that could be it.

I didn't think about the overload clutch engaging, but it always does happen when I plow or jump into stuff that I probably shouldn't. I'm not a smooth rider and tend to ride heavy and I weigh 195lb without gear.

Admittedly the screenshot is from the video below where I was trying to replicate the issue


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

GatorXman said:


> Bike is a Ibis Ripley V4. Rear shock has higher pressure than recommended and a larger spacer. I rarely have hard bottomed on the trail, so I don't know if that could be it.
> 
> I didn't think about the overload clutch engaging, but it always does happen when I plow or jump into stuff that I probably shouldn't. I'm not a smooth rider and tend to ride heavy and I weigh 195lb without gear.
> 
> Admittedly the screenshot is from the video below where I was trying to replicate the issue


 By slowing the video down it looks like the chain is putting no force on the derailleur, yet it flops around as if it were being heavily forced. There's clearly something wrong with that derailleur. It almost appears to have no spring at all. If I could grab it by hand, I could tell immediately if it really has an issue. From this side of the screen it's just conjecture.


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## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Gregg K said:


> By slowing the video down it looks like the chain is putting no force on the derailleur, yet it flops around as if it were being heavily forced. There's clearly something wrong with that derailleur. It almost appears to have no spring at all. If I could grab it by hand, I could tell immediately if it really has an issue. From this side of the screen it's just conjecture.


Is this what the overload clutch does? Seems it might be going into overload mode too easily, which makes it flop around like that.

I'm going to see if I can get it warrantied by the shop I bought it from. SRAM has always been good with warranties through them.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

GatorXman said:


> Is this what the overload clutch does? Seems it might be going into overload mode too easily, which makes it flop around like that.
> 
> I'm going to see if I can get it warrantied by the shop I bought it from. SRAM has always been good with warranties through them.


took me forever to find a video, but no - the overload clutch does not do that. it does move but not like that!

https://www.pinkbike.com/video/498472/

Gregg is right. Something is wrong with your derailleur. You should work with the shop you purchased it from to get it warrantied.

Gregg's also right that I was just guessing before. That's because there was just the pic, the video helped tremendously. :thumbsup:


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## aland33 (Dec 10, 2016)

So I bought an AXS upgrade kit. I have XX1 cranks with P2Max power meter.
Would it be an upgrade to run the AXS system with a XTR 12-s cassette, XTR-chain and a Wolftooth hyperglide+ chainring over the sram cassette and chain?

I’m going to upgrade my wheelset so I have the possibility to choose a micro-spline hub. 

I would only do this if I gain something by mixing brands. Thinking of smoother shiftings under load together with wireless shifting. Best of both worlds or not?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm eager to hear the answer to the above question af well. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

aland33 said:


> So I bought an AXS upgrade kit. I have XX1 cranks with P2Max power meter.
> Would it be an upgrade to run the AXS system with a XTR 12-s cassette, XTR-chain and a Wolftooth hyperglide+ chainring over the sram cassette and chain?
> 
> I'm going to upgrade my wheelset so I have the possibility to choose a micro-spline hub.
> ...


There is no "smoother shifting" to be had once you move to AXS. It's a perfect shift every time unlike the mechanical XX1.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I've had AXS for 6 months or so and it certainly does NOT have the ability to shift flawlessly under full power as XTR is reported to be able to do.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

The "clutch" on AXS is no where as strong as normal derailleur. Could have something to do with the motor. Also it doesn't work as well under load like XTR but it's very accurate and great for important shifts at high speeds or when you just feel bent and don't want to deal with any BS


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Shifting under power is a terrible thing to do to any derailleur-equipped drivetrain. Don't do it.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

ColinL said:


> Shifting under power is a terrible thing to do to any derailleur-equipped drivetrain. Don't do it.


Tell this to the die hard Shimbois who always brag about how Shimano is a gazillion gorrilian times better and shifts even if you jump on the pedals.

I always pity those poor drivetrains that have such owners.
And pretty much any drivetrain can shift up amazing when going uphill if just at the right moment put less pressure on the pedals.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

OneTrustMan said:


> Tell this to the die hard Shimbois who always brag about how Shimano is a gazillion gorrilian times better and shifts even if you jump on the pedals.
> 
> I always pity those poor drivetrains that have such owners.
> And pretty much any drivetrain can shift up amazing when going uphill if just at the right moment put less pressure on the pedals.


Yet look at all the Srambois that excuse the slipping into sync as engineering.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

TwoTone said:


> Yet look at all the Srambois that excuse the slipping into sync as engineering.


I agree. 
That is just the same level of dumb.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Tell this to the die hard Shimbois who always brag about how Shimano is a gazillion gorrilian times better and shifts even if you jump on the pedals.
> 
> I always pity those poor drivetrains that have such owners.
> And pretty much any drivetrain can shift up amazing when going uphill if just at the right moment put less pressure on the pedals.


The XT/XTR 12 speed really doesn't care about power. I've tried to get it to complain about shifting under load and it just executes a smooth shift. It handles stuff that my X01 Eagle just does not accept.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## aland33 (Dec 10, 2016)

tuckerjt07 said:


> The XT/XTR 12 speed really doesn't care about power. I've tried to get it to complain about shifting under load and it just executes a smooth shift. It handles stuff that my X01 Eagle just does not accept.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


So back to my question then..

AXS XX1 with XTR cassette, chainring and chain will work? Anyone who have it and can tell how good it really is compared against "all SRAM"?

I have seen a Pivot Shuttle with this system AXS + xtr but I didn't find out how well it runs in the long term.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> The XT/XTR 12 speed really doesn't care about power. I've tried to get it to complain about shifting under load and it just executes a smooth shift. It handles stuff that my X01 Eagle just does not accept.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


it's your bike and your money, but there's no way that shimano has discovered some magical secret involving metallurgy or the shape and timing of the ramps.

more torque on the cranks = more torque on the teeth of the cassette as you shift = more wear.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ColinL said:


> it's your bike and your money, but there's no way that shimano has discovered some magical secret involving metallurgy or the shape and timing of the ramps.
> 
> more torque on the cranks = more torque on the teeth of the cassette as you shift = more wear.


Have you ridden their 12 speed stuff?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

ColinL said:


> it's your bike and your money, but there's no way that shimano has discovered some magical secret involving metallurgy or the shape and timing of the ramps.
> 
> more torque on the cranks = more torque on the teeth of the cassette as you shift = more wear.


The shift ramps and the instant release shifter are a large improvement. I have XTR and AXS. SRAM shifts under load because of the motor but it's still not like the shimano stuff. I actually think the cable actuation and instant release has a lot to do with the shift quality and perhaps not as powerful as a servo system.

SRAM also weakened the clutch on AXS for some reason I think perhaps the servo motor.

Shimano is working on a gearbox and that will bury sram as they don't have the money to follow suit. I like AXS and XTR for individual reasons.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

ColinL said:


> it's your bike and your money, but there's no way that shimano has discovered some magical secret involving metallurgy or the shape and timing of the ramps.
> 
> more torque on the cranks = more torque on the teeth of the cassette as you shift = more wear.


Shimano has figured out ramping to shift smoothly under load. But yeah being aluminum and titanium I don't think it will last long doing so.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Cerberus75 said:


> Shimano has figured out ramping to shift smoothly under load. But yeah being aluminum and titanium I don't think it will last long doing so.


The idea he has about increased wear is a bit of a misconception. The shift itself, if it is smooth, does not apply any more torque than when the cogs are fully engaged and one is pedaling. The reason bad shifts break things is due to shock load, ie the chain jumps up the ramps and slams home with a large amount of force. In a smooth shift scenario that shock load is not present.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

OneTrustMan said:


> Tell this to the die hard Shimbois who always brag about how Shimano is a gazillion gorrilian times better and shifts even if you jump on the pedals.


Please. It's hard to talk to a hyperbolic strawman.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm not worried about a bit of possible additional wear, I have yet to completely wear out a cassette and they aren't expensive anyways.
The facts are that reviewers keep stating that XTR shifts under power very well, that's huge. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

anyone care to share some pics of how they have there matchmakers set up please?

just wanting to find a semi normal position (I know everyones different) but it will give me some idea on what folk have settled with

its hard to trying to find the exact setup without constantly adjusting it


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

MI-XC said:


> There is no "smoother shifting" to be had once you move to AXS. It's a perfect shift every time unlike the mechanical XX1.


Yes there is! Its called Di2, and its been around for 5 or more years. AXS is nice yes, but its not nearly as refined as Di2.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> The facts are that reviewers keep stating that XTR shifts under power very well, that's huge.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


JRA podcast doesn't seem to share the same love for the new 12 speed shimano drivetrain as the people that are paid to review!


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

DethWshBkr said:


> Yes there is! Its called Di2, and its been around for 5 or more years. AXS is nice yes, but its not nearly as refined as Di2.


dura ace di2 was used by a few pro teams in 2008, consumer release in 2009. it's damn cool on a 2x drivetrain to shift sequentially if you want, and reliably shifting the front is also huge.

but on a 1x MTB? xtr di2 didn't show up until 2015. and the wireless module for it is just a controller. you still wire up the battery to the shifter to the derailleur.

it's great as a consumer to have options, but I for one can't see any fault in AXS. it shifts much more reliably for me than any cable-operated drivetrain. I don't have to figure out where to install a di2 battery or buy a frame made for it. and I don't need to cable anything.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

mfa81 said:


> JRA podcast doesn't seem to share the same love for the new 12 speed shimano drivetrain as the people that are paid to review!


I absolutely hated Shimano, hated working on it, hated the way it felt, hated all of it. That said I didn't have time to swap drive trains or a spare wheelset when my Oiz came in the day before a race so I was forced to ride it. I'm going to have to switch all my bikes to Shimano eventually before I break stuff with SRAM on it because the 12 speed Shimano is that smooth under power.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ColinL said:


> dura ace di2 was used by a few pro teams in 2008, consumer release in 2009. it's damn cool on a 2x drivetrain to shift sequentially if you want, and reliably shifting the front is also huge.
> 
> but on a 1x MTB? xtr di2 didn't show up until 2015. and the wireless module for it is just a controller. you still wire up the battery to the shifter to the derailleur.
> 
> it's great as a consumer to have options, but I for one can't see any fault in AXS. it shifts much more reliably for me than any cable-operated drivetrain. I don't have to figure out where to install a di2 battery or buy a frame made for it. and I don't need to cable anything.


It was one of the hardest things I've ever done- getting that battery in the steerer tube.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

ColinL said:


> dura ace di2 was used by a few pro teams in 2008, consumer release in 2009. it's damn cool on a 2x drivetrain to shift sequentially if you want, and reliably shifting the front is also huge.
> 
> but on a 1x MTB? xtr di2 didn't show up until 2015. and the wireless module for it is just a controller. you still wire up the battery to the shifter to the derailleur.
> 
> it's great as a consumer to have options, but I for one can't see any fault in AXS. it shifts much more reliably for me than any cable-operated drivetrain. I don't have to figure out where to install a di2 battery or buy a frame made for it. and I don't need to cable anything.


Yes, the AXS is really, really simple.

But people act like it's a quantum leap in drivetrain because it's electronic. 
That tech is very, very old on bikes.

I'll take my AXS over mechanical any day. But, it is not as good as Di2 in any way EXCEPT installation ease. That said, i have installed Di2 in 4 bikes, only one of which was actually designed for Di2, and it's not hard at all. (Admittedly confusing for what was needed the first time though) 
But as far as quality and performance, AXS is a super high quality New York strip. Di2 is a top end Filet.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

DethWshBkr said:


> Yes, the AXS is really, really simple.
> 
> But people act like it's a quantum leap in drivetrain because it's electronic.
> That tech is very, very old on bikes.
> ...


Ok. But I would rather have a well marbled strip than a filet any day of the week.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

timsmcm said:


> Ok. But I would rather have a well marbled strip than a filet any day of the week.


Looks I'm going to have to wait to go electronic. I'm more of a prime cowboy ribeye person.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

DethWshBkr said:


> Yes, the AXS is really, really simple.
> 
> But people act like it's a quantum leap in drivetrain because it's electronic.
> That tech is very, very old on bikes.
> ...


That's why I find reviews from people that haven't ridden DI2 kind of pointless.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Looks I'm going to have to wait to go electronic. I'm more of a prime cowboy ribeye person.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Don't wait. Go ahead and go electronic and have your cowboy ribeye. No one will be able to wipe the smile off your face.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

timsmcm said:


> Don't wait. Go ahead and go electronic and have your cowboy ribeye. No one will be able to wipe the smile off your face.


Holding out for Shimano to go wireless.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

The shifter on Di2 was really good, also I miss the display.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

DethWshBkr said:


> Yes, the AXS is really, really simple.
> 
> But people act like it's a quantum leap in drivetrain because it's electronic.
> That tech is very, very old on bikes.
> ...


I haven't tried Di2. I'm sure it's absolutely terrific.
My AXS is incredible. I've owned a lot of nice drivetrains (XTRs and mechanical XX1) over the years and AXS really is next level. It is so so smooth, quiet, consistent. A light tap on the button and it shifts perfect. The battery lasts forever, is tiny, and charges in under an hour. The system hooks up to my Garmin (battery percentage and gear) without any additional component.

I think one of the real joys of AXS is how clean the set up is. Aesthetically it just looks so good without the cable at the controller and the RD. Yes installation is a breeze (I mean ridiculously easy) but it's the lasting aesthetic quality I really enjoy too. Di2 can't match that - several cables from the bar and steerer tube, handlebar display/or extra junction box, and even an extra junction box for bluetooth to hook up to Garmin.

Di2 may shift that much better. I don't know. But I'll happily take this phenomenally performing system -- even if it performs SLIGHTLY less well -- to have the wireless advantage.

And FWIW, I think you can safely assume the next version of Shimano's electronic system will be wireless too.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

Hey gents,

Looking for some feedback on setup. I am running an axs x01 setup with a GX chain. Under medium to heavy load, in the middle of the cassette, I get a pretty nasty shift when downshifting. I would think that the chain line in the middle of the cassette should be the nicest shifting. Would love to hear if anyone else is experiencing this. If not, what can I adjust to fix this.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

lardawge said:


> Hey gents,
> 
> Looking for some feedback on setup. I am running an axs x01 setup with a GX chain. Under medium to heavy load, in the middle of the cassette, I get a pretty nasty shift when downshifting. I would think that the chain line in the middle of the cassette should be the nicest shifting. Would love to hear if anyone else is experiencing this. If not, what can I adjust to fix this.


have you teied micro adjusting? I forgot exactly how to donit, I believe you hold the sync buttong and shift sonit will do the micro adjustments for that gear you might tey that!

I'm also assuming it's all brand new at the time you installed


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

lardawge said:


> Hey gents,
> 
> Looking for some feedback on setup. I am running an axs x01 setup with a GX chain. Under medium to heavy load, in the middle of the cassette, I get a pretty nasty shift when downshifting. I would think that the chain line in the middle of the cassette should be the nicest shifting. Would love to hear if anyone else is experiencing this. If not, what can I adjust to fix this.


the first thing I would check is your derailleur hanger alignment. best to use a tool for this, or take it to a shop that has one. the park tool isn't too costly, especially given we're discussing AXS here.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

ColinL said:


> the first thing I would check is your derailleur hanger alignment. best to use a tool for this, or take it to a shop that has one. the park tool isn't too costly, especially given we're discussing AXS here.


New SB100. Not saying it can't be bent, seems unlikely.



mfa81 said:


> have you teied micro adjusting? I forgot exactly how to donit, I believe you hold the sync buttong and shift sonit will do the micro adjustments for that gear you might tey that!
> 
> I'm also assuming it's all brand new at the time you installed


I did the fine adjustment. Not sure if that is gear specific or one adjustment for every gear. We will see how it goes on my next ride. Thx!!


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

lardawge said:


> New SB100. Not saying it can't be bent, seems unlikely.


Most (over 50%) of new frames have slightly bent hangers.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> Most (over 50%) of new frames have slightly bent hangers.


Based on what exactly..? Estimated with intuitive approximation based on one sample..?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Verttii said:


> Based on what exactly..? Estimated with intuitive approximation based on one sample..?


30+ years of building and maintaining bikes. The interface of the hanger mount and the hanger itself need to have crazy tight tolerances to be "perfect out of the box". This is never checked at the factory as you need to install a wheel or have a special tool. Also wheels sit in the dropouts differently, so a perfect hanger might not be straight on your wheel combo.

There is only one right way to check alignment and thats with your full system installed and tightened down. Every bike needs to be checked! It doesn't matter if it's new or a fresh hanger has been installed.

I have only ever found 1 bike that was truly perfect out of the box and it was a 2009 Santa Cruz Chameleon, but the rear was basically the forged from solid aluminum.

Over the last decade I have had to straighten every hanged that came into my garage for service. It's the first thing I check on any bike and the key to smooth shifting.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Verttii said:


> Based on what exactly..? Estimated with intuitive approximation based on one sample..?


I've built 3 bikes in the last 3 or 4 months for me and friends and all 3 had a bent hanger, it's actually pretty common to have to adjust your hanger on a brand new frame, much more likely than having it perfect


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

alexbn921 said:


> 30+ years of building and maintaining bikes. The interface of the hanger mount and the hanger itself need to have crazy tight tolerances to be "perfect out of the box". This is never checked at the factory as you need to install a wheel or have a special tool. Also wheels sit in the dropouts differently, so a perfect hanger might not be straight on your wheel combo.
> 
> There is only one right way to check alignment and thats with your full system installed and tightened down. Every bike needs to be checked! It doesn't matter if it's new or a fresh hanger has been installed.
> 
> ...


Good info there. Whether being a pro mechanic or shade tree doing for yourself and friends, with new wide range bigger longer derailleurs, it is paramount that the hanger be spot on. The farther from the middle of the wheel the more a little off at the hanger the more it will be off with the big derailleurs. I am like you that is one of the first things I do to a bike is check the hanger alignment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

alexbn921 said:


> 30+ years of building and maintaining bikes. The interface of the hanger mount and the hanger itself need to have crazy tight tolerances to be "perfect out of the box". This is never checked at the factory as you need to install a wheel or have a special tool. Also wheels sit in the dropouts differently, so a perfect hanger might not be straight on your wheel combo.
> 
> There is only one right way to check alignment and thats with your full system installed and tightened down. Every bike needs to be checked! It doesn't matter if it's new or a fresh hanger has been installed.
> 
> ...


Bingo.
A sign of a good bike shop is watching techs unbox bikes and check the hanger on every bike, cheap or expensive.

And with the advent of 12 speed and long derailleurs......I have used my hanger tool more in the last 3 years than ever before. Zero room for error.

But yet....here we are


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

In this article: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the...-and-efficiency-tested/#most-durable-11-speed

The tests found that Shimano chains had notably less friction than Eagle chains.

The tester combined the Shimano chain with his own AXS and said this: "I have since ridden the XTR 12 chain on my Eagle AXS drivetrain," he said. "The Mspeedwax treatment is still silky smooth after nearly six hours of hard training - and whilst I don't have efficiency results yet, I will be shocked if the XTR chain isn't very fast. I also think that shifting is even a bit better than the already great Eagle chain - it certainly isn't worse."

Also Absolute Black makes GXP mount, but with Shimano teeth oval rotors. So in my case I can just bolt a Shimano specific rotor from AB right to my Eewing cranks.

So the point is that the ideal set up might be the AXS cassette, deraileur, and shifter, combined with a Shimano XTR 12 speed chain and an AB front oval rotor with Shimano teeth.

This appears to reduce friction and improve shifting over using the Eagle chain.

Anybody going to try it out? I'm not due at this time for these parts so I can wait this one out.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

I don't know, I am thrilled with mine. I had a little extra noise after I set it up originally, but my LBS dialed it in and it has been trouble free since. Love it.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> In this article: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the...-and-efficiency-tested/#most-durable-11-speed
> 
> The tests found that Shimano chains had notably less friction than Eagle chains.
> ...
> ...


The other side of this is that X01 and XX1 Eagle chains are reported to last longer than the XTR chain. I'm generally a Shimano guy, but on anything other than a HG+ cassette I am running an X01 chain. If I were racing, competitively, I might go with the slicker chain. And for the benefits of HG+ I would use the matching chain. Otherwise I'm going with the most durable chain if the functional differences are negligible.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> In this article: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the...-and-efficiency-tested/#most-durable-11-speed
> 
> The tests found that Shimano chains had notably less friction than Eagle chains.
> 
> ...


im already running it and have been around 3 weeks now, its absolutely superb

the shifting off the cassette and chain is next level IMO, (was running xtr 12 speed before), I did not under any circumstances want to lose the hyperglide so the only option was to run axs with shimano cassette and chain

its just unbelievably good, I cannot vouch for a comparison to sram cassette/chain on axs, but I can tell you that it works flawlessly with this combo and it is incredibly smooth

that said im totally converted to axs just off the mech/controller alone, its amazing tech and just shifts and works every time all the time, regardless of conditions, something I was never happy with in the sloppy winter we get here in the uk, shifting starts to go a stray once winter kicks in, It can all start of lovely and crisp on a freshly cleaned and lubed bike, but a few miles in a ride and that starts to deteriorate in terms of shifting performace. with eagle axs it just takes that problem away, it doesn't care if its wet, muddy, claggy, filthy, shitty, icy, snowy....it just shifts exactly the same, every, single, time!

so im converted on that alone, the bonus for me is ive kept the hyperglide, which just makes a all ready great system, even more slicker


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

Update on under load shifting issue. Spent some time playing with the micro adjuster, it is now spot on. Went out today and smashed a bunch of climbs. There were times when I couldn’t even hear it shift, I would just feel it was easier. Very very happy with this setup.


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## steinercat (Apr 25, 2014)

Didzy2009 said:


> im already running it and have been around 3 weeks now, its absolutely superb
> 
> the shifting off the cassette and chain is next level IMO, (was running xtr 12 speed before), I did not under any circumstances want to lose the hyperglide so the only option was to run axs with shimano cassette and chain
> 
> ...


I was thinking about this combo prior to setting up my XT M8100. While I'm completely happy with the XT now, I do miss the shifting feel of wireless SRAM (I have eTap on my road bike).

Maybe the AXS upgrade will be my next upgrade.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Do you need a Shimano chainring to match the chain or will a xx1 setup with a xtr chain work also?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk


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## magnil (Apr 28, 2013)

Eagle AXS was introduced in january, do you think we will see any new AXS stuff this january? New shifter or perhaps a cheaper version?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

magnil said:


> Eagle AXS was introduced in january, do you think we will see any new AXS stuff this january? New shifter or perhaps a cheaper version?


Rear derailleur is always going to be expensive. Shifter will have some updates, but I suspect it will be another year or so.

Rest of the system is compatible with all 12 speed eagle, so you could build a cheaper system with the upgrade kit.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

magnil said:


> Eagle AXS was introduced in january, do you think we will see any new AXS stuff this january? New shifter or perhaps a cheaper version?


I agree that not likely to be a cheaper version as you can intermix the controller and derailleur with cheaper Eagle drive train components. Personally I would like to see a controller on the left side for lockouts front/rear integrated with a dropper.


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## dturcic (Sep 10, 2017)

Any log for changes in new firmware 2.4.3.?


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## mikey95hd (Jan 9, 2020)

alexbn921 said:


> Rear derailleur is always going to be expensive. Shifter will have some updates, but I suspect it will be another year or so.
> 
> Rest of the system is compatible with all 12 speed eagle, so you could build a cheaper system with the upgrade kit.


I have a 11 Speed Sram GX, so since I would be going from 11 to 12, wouldn't it be better to get the Groupset?


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

Update on using Shimano XTR chain and cassette.

I am using it with a SRAM chainring which is attached to a quarq power meter. I waxed the chain and at first is went really well. I did a ride on it and have been using it on a trainer. This evening, I started hearing a drivetrain noise. It was a clunking. Turned out to be the chain staying attached to the chainring and getting pulled off. Everything is new with very little wear. I have roughly 60 miles since install.

Other than this little annoyance, the shifting is quiet under power. Not sure I am going to stick with it unless I can figure out the reason for the clunk. I may try a wolf tooth chainring to see if it helps.

I will update if I get it sorted.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

It's all over this thread- assume you're using the shimano q-link- don't.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

TwoTone said:


> It's all over this thread- assume you're using the shimano q-link- don't.


I am not. I'm using an Eagle link. It isn't hanging up on that link specifically. It might be the wax that is causing it. I am going to re-wax and see. If that's the case, I'm going to try other lubricants.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

Thinking of taking my AXS for a ride today. Its about zero Fahrenheit


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

lardawge said:


> I am not. I'm using an Eagle link. It isn't hanging up on that link specifically. It might be the wax that is causing it. I am going to re-wax and see. If that's the case, I'm going to try other lubricants.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm sure you've ruled this out, but if you have the chain and narrow-wide teeth misaligned, you'll get a lot of friction and noise, and a sticky chain, as the skinny links are forced onto the wide teeth.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

ColinL said:


> I'm sure you've ruled this out, but if you have the chain and narrow-wide teeth misaligned, you'll get a lot of friction and noise, and a sticky chain, as the skinny links are forced onto the wide teeth.


You would have to use a mallet to get the chain on if it was misaligned. Not sure what setup you have but what you are saying isn't possible.

Update on this. Re-waxed chain which solved the issue. As a note, this is my first time using actual wax (Mspeedwax) and I am not impressed with how long it lasts vs the amount of work.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lardawge said:


> ...and I am not impressed with how long it lasts vs the amount of work.


Every time I have tried wax lubes on a MTB I have been disappointed. Too much hassle for the limited benefits.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

vikb said:


> Every time I have tried wax lubes on a MTB I have been disappointed. Too much hassle for the limited benefits.


I am finding that out. I think it has to do with washing. As soon as you rinse the bike off, the wax is done. That's my theory at least.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

1) I use Molten Chain Wax exclusively on 3 bikes and it's awesome.
2) The wax is chunky for the first 5 minutes after install, but it's there for at least 200 miles afterwards.
3) Re-wax when the rollers are shiny, or it's squeaky sounding. No need before then.
4) You will get a thinner wax job if you boil the wax longer. It will be thinner and drip off a lot more. This will save you the 5 minutes of poor operation after a wax job and maybe even gets the wax in tighter spots.
5) You can have the chain misaligned on the pulley wheels and it'll make noise.
6) I find maintaining drivetrains with wax much easier. After the initial process, I pop off the chain, wipe it down very quickly with mineral spirits, and boil it in my pot that has wax in it. Everything lasts a long time, stays clean, low resistance, etc... Even riding 2-3x per week, I only re-wax my bike maybe every 6-8 weeks. On my wife and kid's bike it's literally a yearly job.

The point? Your chain problems are related to the mixing and matching of components or some other factor, not the wax.

Good luck!


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> 1) I use Molten Chain Wax exclusively on 3 bikes and it's awesome.
> 2) The wax is chunky for the first 5 minutes after install, but it's there for at least 200 miles afterwards.
> 3) Re-wax when the rollers are shiny, or it's squeaky sounding. No need before then.
> 4) You will get a thinner wax job if you boil the wax longer. It will be thinner and drip off a lot more. This will save you the 5 minutes of poor operation after a wax job and maybe even gets the wax in tighter spots.
> ...


Thanks for your lengthy reply.

Good to see positive feedback on waxing.

I am not blaming it on the wax, I am stating that I re-waxed and the noise went away. It could be that the tolerances between the SRAM chainring and the chain are to tight. Wax helps lubricate it enough to quite it down. Unfortunately, I added waxing and experimenting with mixing drivetrains at the same time which makes it hard to say what is what.

Given your feedback, it might be worth going back to SRAM and seeing if the wax performs the same or if that solves the problem. I have a freshly waxed X01 chain and clean cassette ready to rock.

As far as I'm concerned, once you are setup to wax, it's easy to re-wax. The initial cleaning is the most difficult part.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

lardawge said:


> *You would have to use a mallet to get the chain on if it was misaligned. Not sure what setup you have but what you are saying isn't possible.*
> 
> Update on this. Re-waxed chain which solved the issue. As a note, this is my first time using actual wax (Mspeedwax) and I am not impressed with how long it lasts vs the amount of work.


Glad you got it solved, but you're absolutely wrong about it. Way back, years and years ago with my first SRAM 1x11 drivetrain, I had the chain misaligned for about 2 minutes after replacing a worn chain. It WILL go on wrong, and it will make a ton of noise.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

ColinL said:


> Glad you got it solved, but you're absolutely wrong about it. Way back, years and years ago with my first SRAM 1x11 drivetrain, I had the chain misaligned for about 2 minutes after replacing a worn chain. It WILL go on wrong, and it will make a ton of noise.


Lol. Ok.

Since it is crystal clear you have not seen a modern SRAM drivetrain, please go to your local LBS and try to misalign a chain on a x-sync 2 chainring. Let me know how that goes.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

madskatingcow said:


> [/LIST]
> [*]Gear usage : display in the AXS web app seems to be inconsistent
> 
> Sometimes I see 12 - 50T, other rides I see 14 - 50T.
> ...


Any luck with your SRAM app showing your 10T usage?
I have 5 rides with my AXS XX1 and it has't showed the 10t usage yet in my ride summary.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm sure this is impossible, but I'd like to run the 11 speed XTR cassette in conjunction with my AXS derailleur. Pretty sure this is not possible because the AXS derailleur is the long style and of course it shifts 12x, not 11.

Would be awesome to combine my AXS shifting components, with some shortened links to make it a mid length derailleur, with an AB Shimano rotor on my GXP cranks, and then swap over to Microspline on my hub (available) and run the 10-45 Shimano cassette and the HG chain.

Any chance of this existing?


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## 04 F2000SL (Jun 17, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm sure this is impossible, but I'd like to run the 11 speed XTR cassette in conjunction with my AXS derailleur. Pretty sure this is not possible because the AXS derailleur is the long style and of course it shifts 12x, not 11.
> 
> Would be awesome to combine my AXS shifting components, with some shortened links to make it a mid length derailleur, with an AB Shimano rotor on my GXP cranks, and then swap over to Microspline on my hub (available) and run the 10-45 Shimano cassette and the HG chain.
> 
> Any chance of this existing?


It's kind of preset for the 12 speed x dome cassette. The shop didn't even set my limit screws and I never noticed until i looked one day then i tightened them in. Its plug and play performance for sram on sram


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## bigb73 (Oct 11, 2007)

Riding today and I had a OH S#*T moment. Riding along at a pretty good pace and caught my pedal and rear der on a log or stick or whatever. Pedal made me jerk a little the I heard my rear der make the shift noise. Skipped a gear or two on the next crank then all was good. Sram just saved me $700.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Chicane32 said:


> Any luck with your SRAM app showing your 10T usage?
> I have 5 rides with my AXS XX1 and it has't showed the 10t usage yet in my ride summary.


what about the garmin app?

just curious because I have a Wahoo Roam, and this is still only supported on Garmin. but in my Wahoo app as well as Strava, I see some 10T usage. not every ride, certainly.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Chicane32 said:


> Any luck with your SRAM app showing your 10T usage?
> I have 5 rides with my AXS XX1 and it has't showed the 10t usage yet in my ride summary.


yes, I have! I opened a support case for this a while back, after which the issue was resolved.

Keep in mind you have to configure your bike in the AXS app and define the drivetrain. Next, whenever you upload data to the SRAM app it will not show you the 10T-50T. Key is : for each uploaded ride, you have to select the bike you used. I have two bikes with AXS, so perhaps if you have only one defined in the app it's assigned by default.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

madskatingcow said:


> yes, I have! I opened a support case for this a while back, after which the issue was resolved.
> 
> Keep in mind you have to configure your bike in the AXS app and define the drivetrain. Next, whenever you upload data to the SRAM app it will not show you the 10T-50T. Key is : for each uploaded ride, you have to select the bike you used. I have two bikes with AXS, so perhaps if you have only one defined in the app it's assigned by default.


Yes I have the Eagle drive train defined under my only bike and I have to add the bike after each ride like you mentioned. It shows the 10t, but no data next to the 10t gear. I've tried both, custom drive train (adding each gear size teeth) and SRAM Eagle 10-50 and the data hasn't shown up for either next to the 10t.

I now have 7 rides from a new full charged battery, about 12-14 hours and my battery life on Garmin 830still shows 4 bars. Still waiting to see 3 bars(does this battery life symbol actually work?) My derailleur still has a solid green light. Impressive battery life I would say.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Has anyone ever gone backwards and back to traditional Eagle? I like my AXS a lot but really wonder if it’s necessary. I never sold my Eagle drivetrain shifter and derailleur and it keeps taunting me. It was definitely an impulse purchase and I can probably get 80% of my $$ back and that’s acceptable to me. Just curious if anyone else has ever felt the same?


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

blaklabl said:


> Has anyone ever gone backwards and back to traditional Eagle? I like my AXS a lot but really wonder if it's necessary. I never sold my Eagle drivetrain shifter and derailleur and it keeps taunting me. It was definitely an impulse purchase and I can probably get 80% of my $$ back and that's acceptable to me. Just curious if anyone else has ever felt the same?


Not one bit. I have mine set to shift 2 gears with one push and that and being able to see what gear I'm in on my Garmin without having to look back and my cog was well worth my $900. Not to mention having to push my thumb an 1 1/2" with each up shift is another good reason to go AXS.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Me either. Zero remorse with AXS.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Fair enough. Was just a question.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I went thru a period where I thought AXS was silly after I had already used it, but I've became pretty attached to it at this point. Like anything, you get use to what ya got. 
My dream is that SRAM will create a 10 speed version with a matching wide ratio cassette, ditch the Eagle pie plate, and have a shorter AXS derailleur. Just want to improve ground clearance, reduce weight, and shift 20% less on an average ride. 
I totally get that 12 speed and the Eagle gear in particular for OEM bike builds is necessary because they never know the terrain, abilities, or fitness of the purchaser. But I only click in to my Eagle gear accidentally and it usually hinders my climbing progress and I usually shift back to 2nd right away. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Anyone having issues with the AXS app? I installed my AXS drivetrain today (already had a Reverb AXS). My phone/app finds all 4 pieces (reverb/controller, rear derailleur/shifter) but the app assigns both the Reverb and the rear derailluer as "the master" device. And it wont' let me add both pieces to my bike profile, just one or the other.

Anyone else ran into this issue or have suggestions? I've looked at the SRAM zendesk for help, google-fu, etc no luck.

Thanks for any help.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

rscecil007 said:


> Anyone having issues with the AXS app? I installed my AXS drivetrain today (already had a Reverb AXS). My phone/app finds all 4 pieces (reverb/controller, rear derailleur/shifter) but the app assigns both the Reverb and the rear derailluer as "the master" device. And it wont' let me add both pieces to my bike profile, just one or the other.
> 
> Anyone else ran into this issue or have suggestions? I've looked at the SRAM zendesk for help, google-fu, etc no luck.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


just a guess but since you already had the reverb before they might have an issue wanting the rd to be the master, you probably need to do a factory reset on the pairing and redo the full pairing starting eith the rd -> controller -> reverb -> controller, that's what I'd try.

I'm not sure how to reset the pairing, maybe just redoing the full pairing would fix this


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Chicane32 said:


> Yes I have the Eagle drive train defined under my only bike and I have to add the bike after each ride like you mentioned. It shows the 10t, but no data next to the 10t gear. I've tried both, custom drive train (adding each gear size teeth) and SRAM Eagle 10-50 and the data hasn't shown up for either next to the 10t.
> 
> I now have 7 rides from a new full charged battery, about 12-14 hours and my battery life on Garmin 830still shows 4 bars. Still waiting to see 3 bars(does this battery life symbol actually work?) My derailleur still has a solid green light. Impressive battery life I would say.


I have the same problem as you, no data for the 10T, I also only have one bike in the app with axs. not only data but I rode my bike yesterday and paid close attention to my use of the 42 and 50t cogs, the app says I used both about 8m each when in fact I used only the 42t for about 3 or 4m and never used the 50t, so to me their gear data is completely out. I can't even think what exactly it is doing wrong, the data doesn't make any sense


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

mfa81 said:


> just a guess but since you already had the reverb before they might have an issue wanting the rd to be the master, you probably need to do a factory reset on the pairing and redo the full pairing starting eith the rd -> controller -> reverb -> controller, that's what I'd try.
> 
> I'm not sure how to reset the pairing, maybe just redoing the full pairing would fix this


Yes, that's what I did just now, and worked. Made the RD the master, then paired the other 3 up with it. Thanks for the help!


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

rscecil007 said:


> Anyone having issues with the AXS app? I installed my AXS drivetrain today (already had a Reverb AXS). My phone/app finds all 4 pieces (reverb/controller, rear derailleur/shifter) but the app assigns both the Reverb and the rear derailluer as "the master" device. And it wont' let me add both pieces to my bike profile, just one or the other.
> 
> Anyone else ran into this issue or have suggestions? I've looked at the SRAM zendesk for help, google-fu, etc no luck.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


You need to pair all devices in a single pairing session. Example:

1. Begin the pairing session at the rear derailleur. Press and hold the AXS button until the green LED blinks
slowly, then release.

2. Next Press and hold the AXS button reverb until the LED blinks quickly.

3. Next Press and hold the AXS button left controller until the LED blinks quickly.

4. Next Press and hold the AXS button right controller until the LED blinks quickly.

5. Press and release the AXS button on the rear derailleur to end the pairing session, or wait 30 seconds for the pairing session to time out.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Yup, exactly what I did Tom. Thanks for the help!


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## dukduk (Aug 14, 2019)

Anyone have the Zirbel Ring shifter?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Really considering going back to just an 11 speed.

The AXS Deraileur weighs 350g and the 12 speed Cassette weighs 358g.

The 11 speed cassette weighs 264 g and the derailleur weighs 241 g. That's a 203 gram weight savings just ridding myself of a gear that I don't even use, all coming directly off the rear wheel. That's basically .5# savings plus improved ground clearance. I'd gain around 30 grams back in cable but it's locating in the frame instead of the rear wheel.

Hoping that SRAM will offer a program to run the AXS derailleur as an 11 speed and some different cage components to convert it to a short cage.

Am I dreaming?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> Really considering going back to just an 11 speed.
> 
> The AXS Deraileur weighs 350g and the 12 speed Cassette weighs 358g.
> 
> ...


yes, you're dreaming. I cannot see any reason why SRAM would go back to 11 speed. they have 7 speed for DH and just purely for argument's sake, if they went to fewer gears for e-mtb specific, why 11? why not 9 or 10 with an ultra-wide ratio cassette?

second item. I do care somewhat about weight. I know there are weight weenies with bikes that don't leave the MUP, and there are weight weenies who love their carbon seatposts while the rest of us try to figure out if we can make a 200mm dropper work.  for most people riding challenging terrain, droppers are must-have and they're worth the weight.

the reason I mention that example is because to me, AXS is worth the weight. the 50t cog is worth the weight (over 42) even though there are many trails that I never even use my 42... but there are a few that I use the hell out of my 50!

I honestly would never even contemplate looking up the math that you did because I'm going to have a 50T, and I never noticed any additional weight of AXS. What I noticed is that I never, ever have to turn a barrel adjuster to get my shifting sorted out, I never hear the shift cable rattling around on choppy terrain (other cables still do, of course) and shifts are FAST and perfect every time.

most of the comments I've seen about switching away from AXS, to me, read like buyer's remorse. it is absolutely expensive. there are MANY great, trail-worthy MTBs available that cost less (whether new or used) than AXS does. so I get it. to me it's worth it. to you? maybe not, go back to 11s. it's all good and the only one riding your bike is you, so do what suits you.


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## Mingui 666 (Nov 17, 2019)




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## jet9rdopilot (Nov 10, 2012)

I regards to this new Sram usage app. I have the remote and RD paired. Down loaded the AXS app to Android phone. Enter all ride profile info. My bike, Brand, Model, Year, Bike weight, Rider height, Rider Weight, etc. Bike setting, 34 front chain ring, 10-50 rear cassette. Must pair Garmin 520 edge. Menu>settings>sensors>add sensor. Gamin connected to Sram app
It comes up with a picture of a chain ring and a number. Click on it, asks for details. inputted 34 front, 10-50 rear and each gear in that 10-50 range.
How does the RD, remote, app, Garmin all talk to each other?
I got it all to work. But, God only know how. 
It takes about a day for all info to show up in SRAMID virus Garmin connect.
Thanks for any info.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

jet9rdopilot said:


> I regards to this new Sram usage app. I have the remote and RD paired. Down loaded the AXS app to Android phone. Enter all ride profile info. My bike, Brand, Model, Year, Bike weight, Rider height, Rider Weight, etc. Bike setting, 34 front chain ring, 10-50 rear cassette. Must pair Garmin 520 edge. Menu>settings>sensors>add sensor. Gamin connected to Sram app
> It comes up with a picture of a chain ring and a number. Click on it, asks for details. inputted 34 front, 10-50 rear and each gear in that 10-50 range.
> How does the RD, remote, app, Garmin all talk to each other?
> I got it all to work. But, God only know how.
> ...


mine shows up pretty quick after a ride, you connect the rd as a sensor to your garmin unit which grabs data during your ride and uploads it to sram once you are done the same way it syncs to strava


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Has anyone had an issue with the paired components not showing in the web page in the 'My Bikes' info? I paired the 4 components in the app but only the 2 controllers show on the web page?

I've tried deleting a bike profile and adding the 4 paired components to a new one in the app, but even though the web page shows the new bike profile it still only has the two controllers. 

(The RD is shown as the master in the setup on the app)

TIA


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Chicane32 said:


> Yes I have the Eagle drive train defined under my only bike and I have to add the bike after each ride like you mentioned. It shows the 10t, but no data next to the 10t gear. I've tried both, custom drive train (adding each gear size teeth) and SRAM Eagle 10-50 and the data hasn't shown up for either next to the 10t.
> 
> I now have 7 rides from a new full charged battery, about 12-14 hours and my battery life on Garmin 830still shows 4 bars. Still waiting to see 3 bars(does this battery life symbol actually work?) My derailleur still has a solid green light. Impressive battery life I would say.


Have you been able to fix your 10T cog issue?

I still have the exact same problem, my 10T cog never shows as used during a ride. Another thing I can't figure out how to collect is data about my reverb activation, it was supposed to show how many times I used the dropped based on the screenshots I've seen!

Has anybody been able to get the reverb activation data on the web/app?


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

mfa81 said:


> Have you been able to fix your 10T cog issue?
> 
> I still have the exact same problem, my 10T cog never shows as used during a ride. Another thing I can't figure out how to collect is data about my reverb activation, it was supposed to show how many times I used the dropped based on the screenshots I've seen!
> 
> Has anybody been able to get the reverb activation data on the web/app?


Nope, I joined the Facebook AXS group and someone posted on there that there is a Garmin update that will fix this issue, but I never looked into it. I checked my Garmin and it shows that it's up to date, so I never went further. I will look for this comment on the group and copy/paste if I can find it.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

Here's the update link and the conversation from this group that apparently worked. Let me/us know when you try and I will do the same.
https://www8.garmin.com/support/dow...dV07qZO3hO3yQ1rcv-33dEWdJftG7d-wSDZoUBUkJfD14


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)




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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Early adopter of AXS here. 
It's never needed any adjustment or work at all.
Gotta say, i wasn't impressed at first, but don't think that I could ever go back to cable operated again. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

thanks for the info. That's a little scary, official garmin releases are already pretty buggy, I have to think if I really want to install a beta version


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Chicane32 said:


> Here's the update link and the conversation from this group that apparently worked. Let me/us know when you try and I will do the same.
> https://www8.garmin.com/support/dow...dV07qZO3hO3yQ1rcv-33dEWdJftG7d-wSDZoUBUkJfD14


okay, I couldn't resist! It does fix the problem and I can see my 10T usage now.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

mfa81 said:


> okay, I couldn't resist! It does fix the problem and I can see my 10T usage now.


Cool. Why is the beta version risky vs any other? I'm not keen on the difference in software, that's why it's my wife's job, who is the computer nerd.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Chicane32 said:


> Cool. Why is the beta version risky vs any other? I'm not keen on the difference in software, that's why it's my wife's job, who is the computer nerd.


well it's a beta, not officially released to the public and still issues to be solved, but my small test ride it worked pretty well and I'm glad to have complete and good axs stats!


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## dturcic (Sep 10, 2017)

Today after 7 months of everyday bike ride, CR2032 battery on AXS shifter unexceptionally died. 
There was a message on Elmnt that battery on gear selection was low, after 1min shifting is not working.
I swapped battery from HR belt to shifter and continued my ride.
Last time I checked the shifter LED was green about one week ago.
It should go RED and then you have about 1 month ...


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

Does anyone know the voltage of the RD battery when it goes from green to red? I’m at 7.76v and its still green. Been carrying a spare with me on rides just to see how low I can get it


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Is there anyway to run an 11 speed SRAM cassette with AXS? I was an early adopter of AXS and do really like it. 
I don't get much use out of the Eagle gear and the 100 gram savings off the rear wheel of the X01 11 speed is appealing to me. 
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The next posts are a condensed version of some SRAM AXS comments I made on another thread that will hopefully be helpful.

I'm using a SRAM Eagle AXS XX1 shifter and rear derailleur but still running a Shimano XTR M9100 10-51 cassette and Shimano XTR M9100 chain. To fit the SRAM shifter I used a Wolftooth MM-ISEV matchmaker shiftmount to attach it to the Shimano XT M8120 brake lever

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com...ts/products/shiftmount?variant=14423010803747

You can't slide the SRAM Eagle AXS shifter fully inboard as the shift lever will touch the edge of the mount. It's ok like this for me but to go anymore inboard would mean cutting the matchmaker up.









To setup the gears were straightforwards. I left the chainlength the same as it had been with the Shimano XTR M9100 derailleur, took the slack out with the B tension screw and that's about all it took to get the AXS shifting nicely on the Shimano 10-51 cassette. The extra 1 tooth size difference over a SRAM cassette doesn't seem to make a difference and the electronic shifting is smooth up and down the cassette. In the bottom gear you can backpedal the cranks all day and the chain isn't going to fall off.

(It was revealed with the release of the SRAM 10-52 Expansion cassettes that SRAM AXS was designed to work with a 52 tooth largest rear sprocket all along.)









This picture shows the rear derailleur and shifter connected in the SRAM AXS app. To fine tune the gears tap on the derailleur and that will take you to the micro adjust page









On the adjustment page you have a display showing the adjust point of the gears and what gear you're in. This is a live display so to set the gears you have this page of the app showing next to where you're working on the bike.









You then do a micro adjust by holding the small AXS button on the underside of the shifter and tapping the shifter in the direction you want to adjust. It starts at 15/31 and you can then move it in one step increments until the gears are smooth. This is really nice as you can see exactly what change you're making and the effect it's having on the gear alignment. With the set numbers there's far less guesswork than indexing a cable shifter by feel.

The SRAM AXS shifters connect via ANT+ to a Garmin or Wahoo bike computer. This picture shows what this looks like on my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt with the graphical gear display, and also gear number showing. This is a live display and changes as you ride to show the gear you're in.









To set the detailed gear sprocket numbers in the Wahoo app tap on the sensor, choose configure gear ratios and then manually enter your chainring size and 
sprockets.

For my bike this is a 34 tooth front chainring and Shimano XTR M9100 12 speed 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51 sprockets. (A SRAM Eagle XX1 12 speed cassette is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50 sprockets )

















With this setup the gear you're in and your gear shifts are saved into the ride .fit file. It doesn't show in Strava but you do get a summary in the Wahoo app or your choice of analysis software post ride. This is what it looks like in WKO4 for a short 20 minute section of a ride up a climb. Click on the pictures for a larger version. In this graph the purple line shows what gear I was in. I actually changed gear 102 times (a gear shift on average every 12 seconds! ) for just this short 20 minute section of the ride. Over the full 3 hour ride I changed gear 740 times.:eekster:









When the gear shifts are grouped together for the climb this is the pattern that it shows:









I don't seem to like the 34x33 tooth gear for some reason!

You can see from the table that I didn't use the bottom 34x51 tooth gear either, even on the steepest 15% gradient section. This is something I've been finding all the time on this bike, including with the XTR derailleurs previously, that the 2nd from bottom gear 34x45 tooth gear tends to feel nicer and is quite close in speed to the bottom 34x51 tooth gear so I'll stay off the bottom gear as much as I can unless it's a really steep climb. It's probably something to do with the worse chainline at the extremes of the 12 speed cassette.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

As a test I ran the SRAM AXS rear derailleur battery down to completely flat (whilst carrying a spare battery! ) so I could get an idea of how many hours to expect in future.









On the rear derailleur you have an LED that lights up with each shift. This LED light also doubles as a battery charge indicator.

When the LED is Green that means the rear derailleur battery is between 100% and 25% charge.
When the LED is Red that means the rear derailleur battery is between 25% and 15% charge.
When the LED is Flashing Red that means the rear derailleur battery is below 15% charge. (It's Flashing Red according to the SRAM website but looks Orange).

https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...-derailleur-or-replace-the-shifter-batteries-

With the SRAM AXS gears connected to a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt computer the battery reading on the computer only shows as Good until you reach below 15% charge (Flashing Red LED). There is no warning from the bike computer when the rear derailleur battery goes below 25% charge (changing from a Green LED to a Red LED).









This is the onscreen low battery warning that appears on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt when the rear derailleur battery is below 15% charge (Flashing Red LED). It appears riding and then if you dismiss it also at the end of the ride and when you next turn the bike computer on also. You don't get repeated pop ups whilst riding.









This table is the summary for the battery life from the SRAM XX1 AXS Eagle rear derailleur from fully charged to fully flat where the gears would no longer work. This was with a brand new battery and mostly in fairly mild temperatures (usually between 15c (59f) and 25c (77f) ) so close to best conditions. The bike was only ridden, no car journeys transporting it (the AXS battery can be woken up from sleep mode and deplete if left connected during car journeys).

My main takeaway from running the battery down to flat is that the rear derailleur battery life at 35.68 hours and 8,493 rear shifts lasts longer than I was expecting it to. The visual difference between Red and Flashing Red LEDs is very hard to make out however, particularly with sunglasses on, and being on the rear derailleur the LEDs require you to be looking directly at them. When it gave an onscreen warning on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt there were only around 2 hours (500 shifts) remaining which is less than a comfortable margin. I'm intending to make a habit of replacing the battery with a fresh one probably once every fortnight.

One thing to note is my average shift frequency of between 14 and 16 seconds. I haven't got anything to compare that with so don't know if that's a lot or not much at all.

Someone who shifts a lot more frequently than I do might see shorter battery life whilst someone who shifts less frequently could see a longer battery life. There could be other factors, such as if you were to shift frequently under load perhaps (requiring more motor force per shift to move between sprockets? ) that might see the battery life reduced too.

----------------------------------------------------------------
*
SRAM Eagle AXS Shifter Battery Life Update 12 September 2020 *









https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...-I-get-from-a-fresh-set-of-shifter-batteries-

According to the SRAM website the CR2032 battery in the shifter is supposed to last for about 2 years before needing replacing.

The brand new Duracell CR2032 battery in my SRAM Eagle AXS shifter lasted 200 hours riding (a little under 4 months total time). At around a shift every 15 seconds that's roughly 48,000 rear shifts before the battery went flat. There was no warning at all of this beforehand riding on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt.

I only noticed because I was at home and by chance had the bike upside down looking at the cassette sprockets and saw there was a red light on the underside of the shifter (completely invisible unless the bike is upside down). I had it connected to the SRAM AXS app via bluetooth to check the micro adjust settings and that bluetooth connection seemed to finish it off completely. Soon after taking the app screenshot above the shifter was non functional. If I'd taken it out for the next ride without seeing that I'd have been left with a dead shifter very early on.:eekster:

It wouldn't have been a terminal issue. If this had happened mid ride I could have taken the CR2032 battery out of the bike's front wheel speed sensor and put that battery into the SRAM Eagle AXS shifter to get the shifter working again. The SRAM Eagle AXS rear derailleur also has a manual override (by pressing the AXS button on the rear derailleur) which will manually downshift to a larger sprocket so I could have used that to get back up the hill to my house if needed also.

One press of the AXS button on the rear derailleur will shift to a smaller rear sprocket.
Two presses of the AXS button on the rear derailleur will shift to a larger rear sprocket.

----------------------------------------------------------------









This graph shows the part of today's ride where the SRAM AXS rear derailleur battery went flat and would no longer shift at all. It was broadcasting its gear information to the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt via ANT+ to the bitter end. This was one thing I'd wondered about - whether it would go to a power saving mode at some point and drop the connection

I stopped, paused the ride, put a fresh battery into the rear derailleur and then set off again. Hot swapping the battery mid ride didn't affect the recording on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt and you can see how the graph continues on as before, including gear shifts (the purple line) as soon as I set off. This was something I'd really wanted to make sure of as sometimes batteries in a sensor going flat mid ride can cause all sorts of issues with the recording, such as the bike computer locking up altogether and having to be rebooted (Garmin Edge 520 and a flat speed sensor battery being an example).

In general I've been really pleased with the SRAM AXS gears so far. The battery life seems good, they shift gear well and they've survived three heavy rainstorms (so wet there were rivers of water pouring out of my shoes post ride) without any problems.


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## butchog (Sep 23, 2010)

*sunrace cassette*



Keithyk said:


> Hi guys, anyone here tried Eagle AXS with Sunrace 12 Speed cassette? Reason being I am hesitate to change the hub, currently using Shimano HG.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i am using the new xtr 12 speed
cassette with fhe axs rear D. works fine


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## cleanneon98 (Jul 12, 2014)

Bit late to the party here but got AXS X01 coming for my 2020 FUEL EX 9.9, as well as the dropper. Still a bit concerned with breaking the derailleur since its so pricy, read through this entire thread but most posts are older, any newer experience with durability? Anyone else broken one? I've only heard of two getting broken so far it seems and most say these AXS derailleurs are way tougher than their mechanical brothers.

Any encouraging advice appreciated LOL


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Man, I’m running an X01 AXS on my MTb Tandem and have utterly smashed the **** out of it such that I’ve snapped two hangars on two different occasions. Was so worried it would be f’d each time...nope. Perfect still a year later and several thousand hard miles on an off-road tandem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cleanneon98 (Jul 12, 2014)

Also any practical difference in the cage design around the lower jockey between XX1 and X01? XX1 seems to "cover" more, not sure what the practical purpose is.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Does anyone know if I can use a inner cage from a standard eagle mechanical mech on my sram axs mech? 

I’ve managed to bugger my inner up on my axs, and only quick way of getting riding again is a standard gx eagle or similar? Are the cages a different length or anything odd? Do the bolt holes line up the same to match the outer?

Any help appreciated as I’m desperate to get this sorted for the weekend


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Didzy2009 said:


> Does anyone know if I can use a inner cage from a standard eagle mechanical mech on my sram axs mech?
> 
> I've managed to bugger my inner up on my axs, and only quick way of getting riding again is a standard gx eagle or similar? Are the cages a different length or anything odd? Do the bolt holes line up the same to match the outer?
> 
> Any help appreciated as I'm desperate to get this sorted for the weekend


Check the SRAM spare parts guide. You have to dig for it, but it's on their site. If the part number is the same then yes you're good to go.

However it certainly WON'T be the same for an older derailleur (GX or anything) that only supports the 50T cassette. When AXS came out last year, it had a different cage and supported the 52T at that time, even though the 52T just arrived recently.

That they knew the 52T was coming and chose not to put it in the AXS build kits last year, like the one I bought, is pretty annoying I guess.


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## JasperGr (Sep 3, 2015)

Or not if you don’t need a 52 


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

JasperGr said:


> Or not if you don't need a 52
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


... I haven't personally tried it, but I would not recommend replacing an AXS derailleur cage with any older SRAM cage that only supports the 50T. It seems very likely to me that it would be different and could cause issues.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Can anyone help diagnose my problem please?

I’m running axs with shimano xt cassette and xtr chain and xtr chainset

Everything shift absolutely lovely but

When in the biggest cog every sort of other revolution of cranks I get this odd tick/click noise just once as the chain goes round 

Now if I get the micro shift up a few clicks it goes away, but then when I’m in 5th biggest cog it then does the click/tick on that gear albeit more so 

Every single other gear is absolutely fine 

I’ve set up b tensions both sagged and non sagged using the axs gauge, limit screws are all correct, chain length seems ok, I’ve tried different Set of jockey wheels

If I do it very slowly in the stand you can kinda see it looks like where the chain releases from the cassette but I’m not sure it’s that or if it was why?

Any ideas? Luckily I don’t use the big cog much so I set it up to make no noise on the 5th cog as I use that much more but it’s frustrating all the same 

I really do wish the rear mech had a auto trim function where it would find the perfect setup itself


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I get the same clicking running XTR chain with AXS on a Leonardi cassette. 
My set up is too bastardized to really know exactly what the cause of my clicking is. 
Like you, it only happens in the upper gears, unlike you I spend most of my time in those upper gears. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Interesting! Have you figured out a fix or tried any alternatives? 

It’s done it now on xt and xtr cassettes for me, and always run xtr chains on them 

Wonder if it’s worth trying a xt chain instead 

Annoying as hell, maybe it’s the minute diffrence in spacing over sram cassettes?! 

If I don’t sort it out I’m going to sack shimano off and just go full sram everything which is annoying


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> Can anyone help diagnose my problem please?
> 
> I'm running axs with shimano xt cassette and xtr chain and xtr chainset
> 
> ...


The largest rear sprockets on a Shimano XT or XTR 12 speed MTB micro spline cassette are made from aluminium. On my used XTR M9100 10-51 tooth cassette, that's been in use all year, it doesn't make any additional click or tick on the largest rear sprocket.

The teeth I'd look at are the "sharkfin" shape ones next to the upshift ramps (the points where the cassette is shaped to shift up from the 45 tooth onto the largest 51 tooth sprocket.) Those teeth by the upshift ramp are the ones that are visibly worn down and shiny on an old cassette so I'd suspect that's where to start.

Once you identify exactly which teeth are causing the tick, where the chain doesn't quite mesh with the sprocket, I'd use a metal file and smooth the problem teeth edges down until the ticking is gone. You'd get the same thing over time from riding, as the aluminium sprockets bed in but that should get rid of it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Didzy2009 said:


> Interesting! Have you figured out a fix or tried any alternatives?
> 
> It's done it now on xt and xtr cassettes for me, and always run xtr chains on them
> 
> ...


At one point it seemed like it was all in the derailleur pulleys, and maybe it is as the lower is SRAM specific. 
I know this, when I wear these parts out I'll almost certainly go back to an Eagle chain. I've got too many mixed parts in mine and now I don't know where to look to fix it. Lots of creaking too.
Any XTR compatible pulleys out there available that I can bolt to the AXS derailleur?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

WR304 said:


> The largest rear sprockets on a Shimano XT or XTR 12 speed MTB micro spline cassette are made from aluminium. On my used XTR M9100 10-51 tooth cassette, that's been in use all year, it doesn't make any additional click or tick on the largest rear sprocket.
> 
> The teeth I'd look at are the "sharkfin" shape ones next to the upshift ramps (the points where the cassette is shaped to shift up from the 45 tooth onto the largest 51 tooth sprocket.) Those teeth by the upshift ramp are the ones that are visibly worn down and shiny on an old cassette so I'd suspect that's where to start.
> 
> Once you identify exactly which teeth are causing the tick, where the chain doesn't quite mesh with the sprocket, I'd use a metal file and smooth the problem teeth edges down until the ticking is gone. You'd get the same thing over time from riding, as the aluminium sprockets bed in but that should get rid of it.


if i microadjust so the 5th cog makes no tick/click then all the shifting is absolutely spot on

if i microadjust so the biggest cog makes no tick/click then the shifting down the cassette is slow and struggling to get in some gears around 5/6/7 etc

so to me im thinking that the problem lies on the biggest cog somehow? its a slx cassette im running now, but ive had this on my xtr cassette too, again not from new with a new chain but as it wears further down the line

i can microadjust so all the gears work perfectly and get rid of the noise on the 5th cog, but if i do it the other way to get rid of the noise on the biggest cog, the gears go to pot on the way down so it just feels like its a problem specifically on the top cog? any thoughts? slx has a alloy top cog the rest are steel


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

WR304 said:


> The largest rear sprockets on a Shimano XT or XTR 12 speed MTB micro spline cassette are made from aluminium. On my used XTR M9100 10-51 tooth cassette, that's been in use all year, it doesn't make any additional click or tick on the largest rear sprocket.
> 
> The teeth I'd look at are the "sharkfin" shape ones next to the upshift ramps (the points where the cassette is shaped to shift up from the 45 tooth onto the largest 51 tooth sprocket.) Those teeth by the upshift ramp are the ones that are visibly worn down and shiny on an old cassette so I'd suspect that's where to start.
> 
> Once you identify exactly which teeth are causing the tick, where the chain doesn't quite mesh with the sprocket, I'd use a metal file and smooth the problem teeth edges down until the ticking is gone. You'd get the same thing over time from riding, as the aluminium sprockets bed in but that should get rid of it.


I actually think you were spot on with this

I found the culprit, one tooth on ramp but, but not a finned one a tall one, basically the chain sits on top of the tooth as it goes around, every rotation it catches on the same tooth, in the same place, very odd it's only one place

I could file the tip of the tooth down or try and bend it inwards more

I cannot physically get the mech any further over via the low limit screw so it's not that, and if I microshift it to remove the tick it just creates the tick on cog 5 and all the gears are slow to shift

So the problem clearly is this tooth on the big cog, very odd though any ideas why it's just one tooth? It doesn't look any different than any other tall tooth on the cassette

If I removed this one tooth or enough for it not to touch then shifting would be perfect through out

I'm struggling to see how or why, I guess the hanger could be slightly out but then my shifting is perfect bar this click everything looks straight mech wise too

I've got a few pics but don't know how to upload


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## johnzm (Feb 10, 2020)

i am also running a mix of components and have a tick-
garbaruk cassette(microspline), pulleys, chainring
XTR chain
i get a tick that is either on the lower end of gears or the higher end, depending on where i micro adjust(one step in micro adjust makes the tick go away up top, and appear a few gears down). i am typically in the middle of the cassette so i cannot get rid of it entirely. 

i've got another wheelset with a 12 spd XT cassette and it has the same issues, so im fairly certain for me its a result of minute differences in spacing on the cassette vs programmed spacing on the derailleur.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

*AXS XX1 micro-adjustment be like...*

Hi there, I'm the latest convert, coming from 11-speed XX1 to AXS XX1, also picked up the AXS Reverb dropper a few weeks back.

First of all, 11-speed XX1 lasted a long time--I'm still on my original cassettes with only slight sharkfinning. I'll feel no guilt handing off my old 11s XX1 to a new owner; I re-greased the pulleys a few months back and the derailleur was good to go. X0 10-speed cassettes filed down to daggers pretty quickly, by comparison.

AXS micro-adjustment is absolutely amazing, or should I say, exactly what I expected. I've never had a derailleur that I could take off the bench and get fine-tuned so it'd work perfectly on the trail in all gears--and I still don't.

I did have to micro-adjust most of the gears, but once I did--perfection in every gear, and that's a first. I love how you can adjust it while you're riding, since most of the tics happen then; uphill, downhill, backpedaling.

I struggled with an 11-46t e.Thirteen cassette initially, probably could have gotten it working, but now I have an XX1 11-50t and it's terrific. I went with an KMC gold 12s chain and it's working perfectly.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> I actually think you were spot on with this
> 
> I found the culprit, one tooth on ramp but, but not a finned one a tall one, basically the chain sits on top of the tooth as it goes around, every rotation it catches on the same tooth, in the same place, very odd it's only one place
> 
> ...


To add pictures write a new post or edit your post in a web browser, scroll down to the bottom and click on Upload Images. At the top right when you click on Add Files there's a small + underneath that lets you include multiple pictures in one post.









A SRAM 12 speed MTB cassette and a Shimano Microspline 12 speed MTB cassette don't have exactly the same spacing. It's very close but isn't identical, which is why there's that little bit of extra tweaking needed.
*"
12 speed Shimano cassette spacing 3.55 mm
12 speed SRAM cassette spacing 3.65 mm

when cassettes aligned by first cog, mixing accuracy 0..+1mm
when cassettes aligned by middle cog, mixing accuracy -0.5..+0.5mm"* _000_

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152690









My description of what happens.

The Shimano sprocket teeth profiles are designed to work together to guide the chain smoothly up and down between sprockets. If the chain is slightly offcentre, not perfectly indexed and centred on the middle of the sprocket, then the teeth profiles will act together with the offcentre chain as though you were starting a gear shift.

The tooth profiles on the cassette immediately before the problem tooth will guide the chain across as though it was beginning to shift, but then the chain isn't quite far enough over so instead of doing an actual shift it will reach the end of the shift ramps on that part of the cassette and revert back to a more centred position on the sprocket again. The chain is then more centred and quiet right up until it hits the same shift ramps with the next rotation of the cassette when it starts all over again giving that repeated ticking noise.

I'd suggest filing the tooth down, rather than bending it.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Hi there, I'm the latest convert, coming from 11-speed XX1 to AXS XX1, also picked up the AXS Reverb dropper a few weeks back.


How many times have you been shifting gear per ride? If you have the SRAM AXS gears paired up to a newish Garmin Edge or Wahoo Elemnt bike computer it saves the number of shifts in the recorded .fit file.

The Di2 stats website works with SRAM AXS gears or there's a gear shifts chart data screen you can add in WKO5. It's also saved in the Wahoo Elemnt Companion app ride summary (but not Garmin Connect or Strava)

https://www.di2stats.com/

I did a 4 hour 40 minute ride the other day and during that ride changed gear 1,344 times, a gear shift every 12 seconds.:eekster:


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## johnzm (Feb 10, 2020)

Maybe we should all post a comment on this issue to see if we can get some action from sram
https://sram.uservoice.com/forums/923374-sram-axs-mobile/suggestions/38804131-trim-option-per-gear


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

johnzm said:


> Maybe we should all post a comment on this issue to see if we can get some action from sram
> https://sram.uservoice.com/forums/923374-sram-axs-mobile/suggestions/38804131-trim-option-per-gear


 wth, Sram far more advanced than Shimano, how could this be missing? :thumbsup:


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

At first, an interesting topic: AXS drivetrain durability.
I installed a complete XX1 Eagle AXS drivetrain in 2019, beginning of July. Did several races, including muddy ones and used my MTB for training, practicing, KOM-hunting, fun riding, doing interval trainings, etc.

Accodring to my Strava logs and my service sheet that I use for record the updates to my bikes (including km-data), there is *6441 km* in my AXS Eagle groupset and there is only 0.2-0.25mm in the chain! This is incredible, with 11-speed XX1 I could reach 2800-3000 kms only, until *0.7*mm in the chain... I measured it with Parktool CC-2 (which is not so good for 12-speed chains) and control-measured with the new Parktool CC-4.
For lubricating the chain I used Squirt Lube only.

Shifting is still crisp and nice from day #1, no issues at all, no fine-adjustments. This AXS just doing its job, and doing it pretty well. 

Oh, regarding shifting: any of you use AXS Eagle with Blip Box + SRAM MultiClics?
A really nice solution I've just seen here, see how the BlipBox is hidden in the Newmen stem and the stealth looking with that Darimo handlebar... Really nice!  
Video and more: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=163355


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> wth, Sram far more advanced than Shimano, how could this be missing? :thumbsup:


Because the XX1 cassette spacing remains the same across the whole range? Adding a trim per gear will just be confusing for many users and definitely cause a lot more shifting issues due to misalignment. 
If they add it, perhaps they can add it in 'advanced mode' or something.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

WR304 said:


> To add pictures write a new post or edit your post in a web browser, scroll down to the bottom and click on Upload Images. At the top right when you click on Add Files there's a small + underneath that lets you include multiple pictures in one post.
> 
> View attachment 1363121
> 
> ...


wow impressive informative reply - and absolutely spot on id

i think your incredibly accurate with all of that assessment, it definitely is the ramp profile, or more specifically the longer tooth rather than the finned ones, its hard to say why its just the one specific one though, as there are a fair few all around the cassette, but this one gets the hit every time, marks on it to prove it.

hopefully these pics will show, although very hard to actually see on the photos

only thing im starting to think is - the cassette was brand new and the chain was a month old, so the chain was more worn than the cassette - i wonder if it meshed on the teeth of the older cassette first, then when i tried it on the new cassette the teeth are'nt worn enough to mesh it properly? like you say probably just riding it will eventually wear it down, but a quick fix with it being only one tooth would be to grind it down

do you think it is the cause? or could it still be a bent hanger/mech or something? shifting is absolutly perfect in every gear, bar the tick on the biggest cog caused by this 1 tooth, surely if the mech hanger/mech was bent then more shifting problems would occur, or id have problems with more than just one tooth?

as said i cant adjust the mech over any more via the low limit screw, so its as far as it can go, and its as far as it can micro shift wise, because otherwise 5th cog clicks/ticks more and shifting becomes poor going down the cassette


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

dturcic said:


> Today after 7 months of everyday bike ride, CR2032 battery on AXS shifter unexceptionally died.
> There was a message on Elmnt that battery on gear selection was low, after 1min shifting is not working.
> I swapped battery from HR belt to shifter and continued my ride.
> Last time I checked the shifter LED was green about one week ago.
> It should go RED and then you have about 1 month ...











https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...-I-get-from-a-fresh-set-of-shifter-batteries-

According to the SRAM website the CR2032 battery in the shifter is supposed to last for about 2 years before needing replacing.

The brand new Duracell CR2032 battery in my SRAM Eagle AXS shifter lasted 200 hours riding (a little under 4 months total time). At around a shift every 15 seconds that's roughly 48,000 rear shifts before the battery went flat. There was no warning at all of this beforehand riding on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt.

I only noticed because I was at home and by chance had the bike upside down looking at the cassette sprockets and saw there was a red light on the underside of the shifter (completely invisible unless the bike is upside down). I had it connected to the SRAM AXS app via bluetooth to check the micro adjust settings and that bluetooth connection seemed to finish it off completely. Soon after taking the app screenshot above the shifter was non functional. If I'd taken it out for the next ride without seeing that I'd have been left with a dead shifter very early on.:eekster:

It wouldn't have been a terminal issue. If this had happened mid ride I could have taken the CR2032 battery out of the bike's front wheel speed sensor and put that battery into the SRAM Eagle AXS shifter to get the shifter working again. The SRAM Eagle AXS rear derailleur also has a manual override (by pressing the AXS button on the rear derailleur) which will manually downshift to a larger sprocket so I could have used that to get back up the hill to my house if needed also.

One press of the AXS button on the rear derailleur will shift to a smaller rear sprocket.
Two presses of the AXS button on the rear derailleur will shift to a larger rear sprocket.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> wow impressive informative reply - and absolutely spot on id
> 
> i think your incredibly accurate with all of that assessment, it definitely is the ramp profile, or more specifically the longer tooth rather than the finned ones, its hard to say why its just the one specific one though, as there are a fair few all around the cassette, but this one gets the hit every time, marks on it to prove it.
> 
> ...


Is this the same SRAM Eagle AXS setup you've had since the end of 2019? You posted a bit ago about needing to replace the inner cage of your rear derailleur. Did the gears work better before doing that?

I was looking at my gear indexing (see post above! ) and on my bike the 4th from smallest rear sprocket has a little "tinkle" noise to it (no jumping only a little noisier) so that's where the difference between a Shimano and SRAM cassette is on my gears, with the largest rear sprockets being totally smooth.

The Micro adjust setting on the rear derailleur is at 14/31 per the SRAM AXS app for my bike with a Shimano 10-51 cassette. Have you tried screwing the high limit screw (10 tooth sprocket) in more as that could possibly be slightly too far out for the gear steps.


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## dduk (Jun 4, 2007)

I see it's been asked already, but haven't seen an answer so I apologize if it's already been addressed. Is there sufficient micro-adjustment in each gear to allow the AXS derailleur to work with 11-speed cassette spacing?


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

WR304 said:


> Is this the same SRAM Eagle AXS setup you've had since the end of 2019? You posted a bit ago about needing to replace the inner cage of your rear derailleur. Did the gears work better before doing that?
> 
> I was looking at my gear indexing (see post above! ) and on my bike the 4th from smallest rear sprocket has a little "tinkle" noise to it (no jumping only a little noisier) so that's where the difference between a Shimano and SRAM cassette is on my gears, with the largest rear sprockets being totally smooth.
> 
> The Micro adjust setting on the rear derailleur is at 14/31 per the SRAM AXS app for my bike with a Shimano 10-51 cassette. Have you tried screwing the high limit screw (10 tooth sprocket) in more as that could possibly be slightly too far out for the gear steps.


Well....ive been doing some testing ....

so over the weekend, i went back to a full sram setup - got a new freehub cassette and chain

still not working correctly, was expecting it to instantly cure the off shifting problems with clicks/ticks etc

but nope pretty much the same, but in some senses worse at shifting!

click was still apparent along with it trying to skip (like a new chain on worn cassette type slip in the biggest cog only), and if i adjusted the microshift enough to kinda get that sorted in the biggest cog, it just did not want to shift down at all in the middle of the cassette

so given that, that was with a full sram setup, what the hells going on? jockeys have side to side play but not a great deal more than my friends axs, everything is new bar the mech itself, and of course the only other thing left is the hanger - i actually swapped it out for another one, and still the same (although that was used too so i cant confirm its straight either)

weirdly though - in the work stand it shifts absolutly fine in ever gear, no clicks, no hesitation, no anything in any cog

ive set it up with b tension sagged and unsagged, makes no difference when im on the bike, it still clicks and tries to come off in the big cog and still struggles to shift down the middle of the cassette

but why in the stand is it perfect? sure a bent mech hanger wouldnt even allow it to work in a stand?

has anyone got any ideas?? only thing thats left thats not new is the mech itself, got a few marks on it but still as far as i can tell in the stand its shifting perfectly!

im at my wits end with it, ive got a trip away this week too and cant have it not shifting or failing to engage top cog all week


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

dduk said:


> I see it's been asked already, but haven't seen an answer so I apologize if it's already been addressed. Is there sufficient micro-adjustment in each gear to allow the AXS derailleur to work with 11-speed cassette spacing?


I haven't personally tested it, but I highly doubt this would work properly and I wouldn't suggest it. My wife's bike is 11 speed with boost and so I could in theory put her wheel on my bike. But I think that would be a big waste of time. 

Micro adjustment will not change the fact that the derailleur moves each time enough for a 12 speed cassette spacing. By definition you are going to have an issue shifting somewhere. You could possibly tune it to shift badly in the middle of the cassette instead of badly in the smallest and largest cogs. But you're kidding yourself if you think you could make it shift smoothly into all 11 gears.


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## dduk (Jun 4, 2007)

ColinL said:


> I haven't personally tested it, but I highly doubt this would work properly and I wouldn't suggest it. My wife's bike is 11 speed with boost and so I could in theory put her wheel on my bike. But I think that would be a big waste of time.
> 
> Micro adjustment will not change the fact that the derailleur moves each time enough for a 12 speed cassette spacing. By definition you are going to have an issue shifting somewhere. You could possibly tune it to shift badly in the middle of the cassette instead of badly in the smallest and largest cogs. But you're kidding yourself if you think you could make it shift smoothly into all 11 gears.


Thanks that's what I was looking for. I was hoping there was enough micro adjustment in the system to conform to 11 speed spacing, and then remember not to shift into the 12th gear.

I guess there hasn't been enough demand for someone to have into AXS to allow for 11 speed usage.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

dduk said:


> Thanks that's what I was looking for. I was hoping there was enough micro adjustment in the system to conform to 11 speed spacing, and then remember not to shift into the 12th gear.
> 
> I guess there hasn't been enough demand for someone to have into AXS to allow for 11 speed usage.


It should work actually, you may be in luck, give me a bit to test and I'll post a video, since I have new AXS and old 11 speed still on a wheel. SRAM 11 and 12 speed spacing are the same--I used an Eagle shifter with my 11 speed XX1 for several years. All you'd have to do is tighten down the upper limit screw.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

chomxxo said:


> It should work actually, you may be in luck, give me a bit to test and I'll post a video, since I have new AXS and old 11 speed still on a wheel. SRAM 11 and 12 speed spacing are the same--I used an Eagle shifter with my 11 speed XX1 for several years. All you'd have to do is tighten down the upper limit screw.


Good to know. I thought spacing was different.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Didzy2009 said:


> so over the weekend, i went back to a full sram setup - got a new freehub cassette and chain
> ...
> weirdly though - in the work stand it shifts absolutly fine in ever gear, no clicks, no hesitation, no anything in any cog
> 
> ...


If the indexing works properly in a workstand, where the bike is raised up off the floor and there is no weight on the rear wheel, but not when riding with the full rider weight applied then there's a few things to look at.

Although you replaced the freehub and cassette it doesn't sound like you've tried an entire different wheel? In order for the gear indexing to work well the rear derailleur and cassette sprockets need to be parallel and aligned with one another, which is what checking the rear derailleur hanger alignment is trying to ensure too.

If the shifting is ok with no weight on the rear wheel, but bad when the bike is ridden, then something is shifting out of alignment as a result of the rider weight. Even though the rear derailleur stays in place the cassette sprockets are possibly shifting their alignment in relation to the rear derailleur, which then affects the gear indexing.

The things that could cause this would be:

- The rear hub wheel bearings (if the bearings have some play the wheel will go slightly off when weighted).
- The interface between the rear wheel, thru axle and frame dropouts (if the entire wheel is shifting in the frame when the rider sits on the bike).
- With a full suspension bike there could be some play in the rear suspension pivot bearings (when the rider sits on the bike the rear suspension could twist to one side, rather than compressing evenly, which would affect the wheel alignment).

The starting point would be to put an entire spare wheel in and see if the same thing happens.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

cheers the reply and help again 

as regards to wheel - it was brand new at the end of march this year, i had freehub off at the weekend so got to inspect the insides of the hub, and bearings are fine, theres no play or movement in the wheel at all, the freehub i replaced (microspline had a rougher bearing than normal but again nothing major)

thats the frustrating thing for me at the moment, it feels brand new and utterly crisp in the stand, so it is working as it should, just not when weighted

as for H & L screws, ive wound them in until they just touched then backed off a 1/4 but im wondering if thats not somehow right now!? maybe backed off too much so its struggling to drop down?

ive got a mechanic friend having a full look at it tonight, hes gonna test the hanger, ive got the newest b tension tool, so i will make sure its setup up right for sag with him before i leave the bike with him, as its incredibly hard to do that alone 

as for pivots/bearings and the likes everything seems spot on ive had a cascade link in just recently so not a bearing issue (it was doing this before the cascade link too)

ill hopefully manage to get something sorted - hes a good mechanic and knows im anal about stuff so he will want to get it sorted for me, least i will find out for definite if its the hanger which ive no way of checking myself


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

You have to set the B- tension sagged, and it makes a difference. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> You have to set the B- tension sagged, and it makes a difference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


done it both ways its made no difference

though one thing does confuse me

is it sagged in climb mode or sagged in open mode?? surely for most gear changes youd want the b tension set it in sag in a climb mode more so given thats when youd use your gears the most? in open mode your generally descending so right down the bottom of the cassette and usually unweighted? so sag is irrelevant for shifting purposes?


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## PJohnston (Jan 26, 2014)

I had the clicking only on the largest gear when I set it up. I have full XT other than the AXS. I set B-tension farther out than whats recommended. I kept bumping it out a quarter turn at a time until it stopped. The noise disappeared and has worked flawlessly for over 1200 miles of single track. I would have to put the tool on it to see where it ended up.

This is on a Santacruz Blur.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Wondering if anyone regrets something with their AXS yet - like battery life, broken derailleurs or something like that. Even small regrets haha.


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

boubla said:


> Wondering if anyone regrets something with their AXS yet - like battery life, broken derailleurs or something like that. Even small regrets haha.


Nope. Nothing. One of the best things ever. Next level would be stock AXS with Shimano level smoothness and on-power shifting.

The race is on Shimano, SRAM... If you are listening. Make it, we'll buy it. Or steal it. From a friend, of course. I'm not a criminal.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

I wouldn't say "regrets" no. It's a fine, high end drivetrain. Just not my favorite. But, not regretable!


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

boubla said:


> Wondering if anyone regrets something with their AXS yet - like battery life, broken derailleurs or something like that. Even small regrets haha.







The only issue I have with it is that I can't currently justify the cost to add it to any other bikes in my garage. That said, I have only one MTB, so we're talking about my wife's bike and my son's. They're making due with cable shifting until SRAM brings this down to a GX-level trim. :thumbsup:


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

ColinL said:


> The only issue I have with it is that I can't currently justify the cost to add it to any other bikes in my garage. That said, I have only one MTB, so we're talking about my wife's bike and my son's. They're making due with cable shifting until SRAM brings this down to a GX-level trim. :thumbsup:


I take it you wouldnt trust AXS with your family, so it can't be that good.. kidding


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

*New AXS owner here having issues*

Hello,

New AXS XX1 owner here coming from 1X11 XX1. Still having issues with shifting after my 12th ride. When I micro adjust to eliminate hesitation that occurs when shifting up the cassette (from lower gear to higher) the chain will for, an unknown reason drop out of 1st gear to 2nd (ghost shift) when under moderate to heavy load. It does not ghost shift between any other gears, just 1st and 2nd.

When I attempt to correct by micro adjusting toward 1st gear I then get massive hesitation from about 5th gear all the way to 12th.

In case you are wondering the high and low limit screws are set properly and it is definitely not a excessive cross-chain issue since my chainring is about 2mm from contacting my chain stay as it is...my ring can't get any closer to the frame.

It appears to help "some" but not fully when I adjust the B screw clockwise but honestly the same tail chasing occurs....e.g. it will stay in 1st gear but at the price of miserable hesitation when shifting up.

Any advise welcome. Thanks


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> Hello,
> 
> New AXS XX1 owner here coming from 1X11 XX1. Still having issues with shifting after my 12th ride. When I micro adjust to eliminate hesitation that occurs when shifting up the cassette (from lower gear to higher) the chain will for, an unknown reason drop out of 1st gear to 2nd (ghost shift) when under moderate to heavy load. It does not ghost shift between any other gears, just 1st and 2nd.
> 
> ...


Do you want to sell your old 11 speed? Looking for a good price on one for a future build. 
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

No, I might need it if I can't make AXS work properly.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

AXS is amazing, I've had it since it was first released. You'll get it dialed quickly. 
It's important to set B- tension with the bike sagged. 

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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> Hello,
> 
> New AXS XX1 owner here coming from 1X11 XX1. Still having issues with shifting after my 12th ride. When I micro adjust to eliminate hesitation that occurs when shifting up the cassette (from lower gear to higher) the chain will for, an unknown reason drop out of 1st gear to 2nd (ghost shift) when under moderate to heavy load. It does not ghost shift between any other gears, just 1st and 2nd.
> 
> ...


happy to (try) to help. but first, let's clear up exactly which gear is ghost shifting but my advice will be wrong if it my assumption is incorrect.

by 1st gear, you mean the 50T right. (Or 52, if you have a very recent build kit.) and it's coming down into the 42 on its own, right?

several things to look at.
1. chain length. take a pic of the bike when it's shifted into the biggest cog and post it here. that will be strong evidence whether the chain could be too short.

2. model of bike. if the chain is just barely long enough when it's in a stand, if your bike has a chainstay length that grows as it compresses, you could have issues ghost shifting if you hit a bump while in the largest cog. (this certainly isn't the issue if you have a hardtail  )

3. b screw adjustment. the kit comes with a red translucent plastic tool that allows you to set the b screw. it must be done when you're on the bike, so it's mandatory to have another person help you with this. if it's not the chain length, I bet it's this.

4. derailleur hanger out of alignment. this honestly should've been my #1 but here you go. check this first. if you don't have a tool, you need to get one. eyeballing it is often wrong, and you can make it more wrong trying to align it without a tool. I have the Park Tool device shown here, but I know there's other good ones on the market as well.


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

ColinL said:


> happy to (try) to help. but first, let's clear up exactly which gear is ghost shifting but my advice will be wrong if it my assumption is incorrect.
> 
> by 1st gear, you mean the 50T right. (Or 52, if you have a very recent build kit.) and it's coming down into the 42 on its own, right?
> 
> ...


Had the same issue trail side. Found out the hanger was bent.

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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

ColinL said:


> happy to (try) to help. but first, let's clear up exactly which gear is ghost shifting but my advice will be wrong if it my assumption is incorrect.
> 
> by 1st gear, you mean the 50T right. (Or 52, if you have a very recent build kit.) and it's coming down into the 42 on its own, right? Yes, 50T. I consider the 50T 1st gear
> 
> ...


xxx


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

free image upload


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> Hello,
> 
> New AXS XX1 owner here coming from 1X11 XX1. Still having issues with shifting after my 12th ride. When I micro adjust to eliminate hesitation that occurs when shifting up the cassette (from lower gear to higher) the chain will for, an unknown reason drop out of 1st gear to 2nd (ghost shift) when under moderate to heavy load. It does not ghost shift between any other gears, just 1st and 2nd.











From your picture (the bike on the left) I'd say your chain is too short. In the picture above my bike (on the right) shows the angle of my SRAM AXS rear derailleur in bottom gear. From the intersection of the red lines (drawn from the lower jockey wheel through the derailleur stop pin) the derailleur on your bike is being pulled tighter, which could result in ghost shifting in the largest sprocket when the suspension compresses..

It looks like it probably needs an extra link adding to your chain length, possibly two links but most likely one link, so that the chain and derailleur isn't pulled as tight.


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

I just removed one chain pair of links (the minimum amount possible) right before this photo because I thought it was too long. It could not be any longer than one more link than shown here because I had the B screw almost all the way to the wall and with that only barely got tension on the chain when in the small cog.


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

*Eagle XX1*

Welcome to mechanical Eagle XX1. 
I experienced the same issues- This eventually made me move to XTR 12 speed.
The cable spools up as you go through the travel. This makes it shift poorly either up or down- you choose.
None of this happens on AXS.



Stumpjumper61 said:


> Hello,
> 
> New AXS XX1 owner here coming from 1X11 XX1. Still having issues with shifting after my 12th ride. When I micro adjust to eliminate hesitation that occurs when shifting up the cassette (from lower gear to higher) the chain will for, an unknown reason drop out of 1st gear to 2nd (ghost shift) when under moderate to heavy load. It does not ghost shift between any other gears, just 1st and 2nd.
> 
> ...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> I just removed one chain pair of links (the minimum amount possible) right before this photo because I thought it was too long. It could not be any longer than one more link than shown here because I had the B screw almost all the way to the wall and with that only barely got tension on the chain when in the small cog.


Have you got an oval or round front chainring?

The pictures below show my bike in its top and bottom gears, along with the position of the b tension screw on the rear derailleur. This is with a 34 tooth round front chainring and 10-51 tooth 12 speed cassette.









2020 Orbea Oiz SRAM AXS 34x51 tooth bottom gear (chain backpedals in bottom gear without coming off or jumping)









2020 Orbea Oiz SRAM AXS 34x10 tooth top gear (the chain is tensioned and not slack).









2020 Orbea Oiz SRAM AXS b tension screw adjustment position


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

UPDATE. 

Took my bike to LBS the is past Saturday and they installed new chain to proper length and adjusted the B screw with their red Template, not my purple template that came with the package although I believe they are the same. 

Test ride today and everything is working well. No more pulling out of 1st gear when simultaneously climbing and compressing rear suspension.

One notable point I would like to make I believe did not help me in correcting this problem on my own. I have found 3 different opines on how you adjust the B gap and all 3 were on good authority:

1. SRAM video on you-tube: Compress suspension 100% and then apply template for B-gap adjustment

2. Nov 2020 issue of Mountain Bike Action Page 81: Sag bike to 30% to adjust B gap. 

3. LBS: Don't sag sh--. Adjust B gap at zero sag.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> UPDATE.
> 
> Took my bike to LBS the is past Saturday and they installed new chain to proper length and adjusted the B screw with their red Template, not my purple template that came with the package although I believe they are the same.
> 
> ...


That's good that it's working ok now.

I'd count the number of links in the chain, and then write it down with the other setup notes for your bike (front and rear suspension pressure, number of clicks of rebound and compression damping, saddle height etc), so that whenever you fit a new chain in future you can look it up and use the same chain length each time.

Regarding B tension screw position the 12 speed Shimano rear derailleurs have a printed mark on the inside of the cage to show where the derailleur should sit. It would be much easier if SRAM did the same on theirs too! The SRAM template isn't any use with a Shimano cassette.

For my bike I set the B tension screw by eye at zero sag. I suspect it might vary a bit by bike as a short travel bike, such as a 100mm travel Pivot Mach 4 SL or a 100mm travel Orbea Oiz, likely isn't going to have a great deal of difference between zero sag for the rear suspension and the sagged position of the rear suspension with a rider onboard.

In contrast something with more travel, such as a 170mm rear travel Specialized Enduro, will have a greater difference between zero sag for the rear suspension and the sagged position of the rear suspension with a rider onboard. On a longer travel bike it might need that sag difference to be taken into account to a greater extent for the gears to shift smoothly.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

SRAM have actually brought out a new B gap adjustment tool and method to go with their new 10-52 cassettes. They have a few new setup videos about this on Youtube when using a SRAM Eagle cassette.

Original SRAM Eagle B tension screw red tool video











SRAM Eagle B tension screw white tool video (new set tool)











SRAM Tech: Eagle Rear Derailleur Adjustments setup tips (second half of video detail including method to measure SRAM Eagle B tension screw gap if you don't have the tool available, set to 3mm per the video).


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## Stumpjumper61 (May 25, 2011)

LOL. They had to redesign their gap tool. Gee, I wonder if it was because no one could figure out how to use it???!!! Clearly the redesigned one is a more accurate and way more user friendly. Ordering today.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> LOL. They had to redesign their gap tool. Gee, I wonder if it was because no one could figure out how to use it???!!! Clearly the redesigned one is a more accurate and way more user friendly. Ordering today.


I tried the new white plastic tool, not more user friendly at all. Even a bit clumsy in use.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-sram-axs-paddle-in-finale-ligure.html

It looks like an update to the SRAM AXS shifter paddle should be released soon. As it's just the plastic paddle it should hopefully be retro fittable onto the existing SRAM AXS shifter.


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> UPDATE.
> 
> Took my bike to LBS the is past Saturday and they installed new chain to proper length and adjusted the B screw with their red Template, not my purple template that came with the package although I believe they are the same.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity, which method did they use? I assume 3.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

dduk said:


> Thanks that's what I was looking for. I was hoping there was enough micro adjustment in the system to conform to 11 speed spacing, and then remember not to shift into the 12th gear.
> 
> I guess there hasn't been enough demand for someone to have into AXS to allow for 11 speed usage.


Sorry for so long in getting back to this. Yes it works perfectly. This is AXS XX1 12s with a 10-42 11 speed XX1 cassette. No changes other than 4 clicks of micro adjustment due to a different hub. I didn't even set the limit screw but the derailleur didn't go over the cliff on the 12th click, it may have detected that.






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## bremmick (May 21, 2008)

*X01 AXS Rear Unrespovise*

Anyone have issues with their rear derailleur go completely unresponsive on a ride? Out on a ride this evening and everything is running fine, fresh charged battery and about four miles in derailleur goes completely unresponsive. No lights. Press button and nothing. Battery out and in and nothing. So I descend to Park City base and right as enter the parking lot it starts shifting again. Whole way down it would shift.

Yesterday I day update the firmware to the latest...2.8.1.

Really ruined my ride.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

bremmick said:


> Anyone have issues with their rear derailleur go completely unresponsive on a ride? Out on a ride this evening and everything is running fine, fresh charged battery and about four miles in derailleur goes completely unresponsive. No lights. Press button and nothing. Battery out and in and nothing. So I descend to Park City base and right as enter the parking lot it starts shifting again. Whole way down it would shift.
> 
> Yesterday I day update the firmware to the latest...2.8.1.
> 
> Really ruined my ride.


I had something similar happen after a firmware update. It actually didn't complete the firmware update, but I didn't realize it and tried to go for a ride. The derailleur wouldn't do jack crap until I got it done. So that's what I would check. Open the AXS app and see if the firmware install is done.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

chomxxo said:


> Sorry for so long in getting back to this. Yes it works perfectly. This is AXS XX1 12s with a 10-42 11 speed XX1 cassette. No changes other than 4 clicks of micro adjustment due to a different hub. I didn't even set the limit screw but the derailleur didn't go over the cliff on the 12th click, it may have detected that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is this happening?

I thought the Eagle cassettes fit 12 shifts in the same space as the old 11 shifts, meaning the indexing for AXS wouldn't work on an 11 speed cassette?

Furthermore, wouldn't you at least have to set the limit on the low (big end) so AXS doesn't try to shift into a nonexistent 1st gear and send your chain into your spokes?

So confused because this is my dream set up but everyone I asked said it was impossible.

Please advise.


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## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

Do all versions of the XX1 and XO1 AXS rear derailleur work with the 10-52 cassette? That seemed to be what reviewers reported when the 10-52 came out. But over at jensonusa they list an XO1 AXS rear derailleur as not compatible with the 10-52. https://www.jensonusa.com/SRAM-X01-Eagle-AXS-Rear-Derailleur. I'm about to buy an XX1 AXS RD and want to make sure there's not two versions since I may use a 10-52 down the road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

Stumpjumper61 said:


> LOL. They had to redesign their gap tool. Gee, I wonder if it was because no one could figure out how to use it???!!! Clearly the redesigned one is a more accurate and way more user friendly. Ordering today.


just to be clear the "new gap tool" is as far as I could see only for 10-52t cassettes and not 10-50t.

Another way to adjust the b-gap that is perhaps easier is to just put a 3mm hex wrench between the pulley and the cassette cog (also recommended by sram). I like their idea of trying to make a tool, because many get this wrong and it does affect shifting - but for many of us the 3mm gap measure works just as well.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> How is this happening?
> 
> I thought the Eagle cassettes fit 12 shifts in the same space as the old 11 shifts, meaning the indexing for AXS wouldn't work on an 11 speed cassette?
> 
> ...


Lol, I went to the trouble to make a video because I knew there'd be questions and maybe disbelief. TLDR; it just works man.

Correction: The 12 speed doesn't shift in the same space as 11 speed. It adds one more space for the 12th cog further into the wheel dish.

I should also mention that I used a 12-speed Eagle shifter for years with XX1 11-speed. Always shifted well.

As for the limit screw, definitely you'll want to set this, but I thought it was interesting that I didn't and the derailleur may have detected it. Haven't tested it enough to confirm.


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## Chuck Johnson (Aug 5, 2020)

boubla said:


> just to be clear the "new gap tool" is as far as I could see only for 10-52t cassettes and not 10-50t.


It works for both.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

chomxxo said:


> Lol, I went to the trouble to make a video because I knew there'd be questions and maybe disbelief. TLDR; it just works man.
> 
> Correction: The 12 speed doesn't shift in the same space as 11 speed. It adds one more space for the 12th cog further into the wheel dish.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-sram-axs-paddle-in-finale-ligure.html
> 
> It looks like an update to the SRAM AXS shifter paddle should be released soon. As it's just the plastic paddle it should hopefully be retro fittable onto the existing SRAM AXS shifter.


The new style SRAM AXS shifter paddle has been officially announced now.

EC-AXS-ROCK-A1

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ec-axs-rock-a1

The individual plastic paddle (not the whole shifter) is product code *EC8290000* and costs £20 GBP.

I've got one on order for my bike but it isn't due in stock until 28 October 2020.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Biggest gripe was the lever. Have one ordered too.


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## steinercat (Apr 25, 2014)

TazMini said:


> Biggest gripe was the lever. Have one ordered too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where did you pre-order from?

I just ordered the groupset, but won't get my frame till end of Nov. I may as well change the paddle before then.

Thanks!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

steinercat said:


> Where did you pre-order from?
> 
> I just ordered the groupset, but won't get my frame till end of Nov. I may as well change the paddle before then.
> 
> Thanks!


I ordered the new style shifter paddle from my local bike shop.

There's a review with more pictures of the updated paddle here:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-axs-rocker-paddle-upgrade-kit-review-2020.html

Regarding SRAM AXS shifter paddles there's a look at Nino Schurter's Scott Spark here which shows how he has a customised front button. It's extended so that it is easier to reach when riding:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-...d-kate-courtneys-supersonic-scott-sparks.html


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## steinercat (Apr 25, 2014)

WR304 said:


> I ordered the new style shifter paddle from my local bike shop.
> 
> There's a review with more pictures of the updated paddle here:
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I placed a pre-order with WW Cyclery.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

chomxxo said:


> Sorry for so long in getting back to this. Yes it works perfectly. This is AXS XX1 12s with a 10-42 11 speed XX1 cassette. No changes other than 4 clicks of micro adjustment due to a different hub. I didn't even set the limit screw but the derailleur didn't go over the cliff on the 12th click, it may have detected that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi there, so it looks like this is working with 11 speed? Did you have to go into the app or is it fine the way it is? Interested in replicating the same. I love AXS on my road bike so I wouldn't mind getting on the MTB, but I have a fresh 11s cassette I don't want to lose and don't need the wider gears.


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

WR304, How is the shifting with the Shimano cassette? Was considering doing this on one of my bikes but chickened out in the end and went with a Sram cassette.


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## lardawge (Sep 13, 2019)

mopartodd said:


> WR304, How is the shifting with the Shimano cassette? Was considering doing this on one of my bikes but chickened out in the end and went with a Sram cassette.


I have been running a shimano xtr 10-51 cassette with zero issues for 600 or so miles.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

mopartodd said:


> WR304, How is the shifting with the Shimano cassette? Was considering doing this on one of my bikes but chickened out in the end and went with a Sram cassette.


The updated SRAM AXS shift paddle is still on back order so I haven't got that yet.

Using SRAM AXS shifters with a Shimano 12 speed cassette and chain works well for me. 

If you look back through the last few posts of this thread you can see some of the possible issues that could arise with a ticking on one or more sprockets on the Shimano cassette. The spacing is very slightly different between SRAM 12 speed MTB and Shimano 12 speed MTB but it is possible to get it close.

This is quite an interesting thread about clicking / ticking on SRAM cassettes and modifying the teeth slightly to stop it. Although that's about SRAM with a Shimano cassette some of the teeth on that can do exactly the same thing. You'd just take some metal off to stop the ticking if needed.

https://forums.mtbr.com/sram/eagle-cassette-tolerance-clicking-1087072.html

.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Those new shifter paddles are cool, gotta get me one soon.



Suns_PSD said:


> Thank you!





sandwich said:


> Hi there, so it looks like this is working with 11 speed? Did you have to go into the app or is it fine the way it is? Interested in replicating the same. I love AXS on my road bike so I wouldn't mind getting on the MTB, but I have a fresh 11s cassette I don't want to lose and don't need the wider gears.


Follow up: I actually rode the 11-42 11-speed cassette today on a trail wheelset while I was awaiting my second 12-speed cassette for my AXS XX1 equipped bike. I can confirm two things:

1). other than a few clicks of microadjust to account for a different wheel hub, the shifting was just the same and reliable.

2). If you shift into 12th gear with an 11 speed cassette, it will definitely dive into the spokes. So you'd have to set the limit screw. Might save some people money to keep their old cassette a while longer or on a backup wheelset.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I just got an email from SRAM AXS saying that AXS web has just added support for Wahoo head units. Originally they only supported Garmin with that feature.

I'll check it out but most of my riding is sadly on the trainer this time of year...


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## tirrorex (Aug 4, 2018)

Hi guys,
so i could really use your help with setting this up.
My context is a 2019 santa cruz nomad with a x01 sram axs (on a gx eagle cassette, chain and cranks).

edit : so i figured something that was wrong with my setup (clearly i didn't watch the video close enough), the only thing i have left is the micro-adjust to remove some clicking noise on the top half of the cassette.
Any tips for that?
I've seen people complaining that they could only get one half of the cassette right for the shifting


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

ColinL said:


> I just got an email from SRAM AXS saying that AXS web has just added support for Wahoo head units. Originally they only supported Garmin with that feature.
> 
> I'll check it out but most of my riding is sadly on the trainer this time of year...


Connected and I see AXS web has imported some of my history, but interestingly, not my ride from yesterday. Also see that sometimes I have gear data, and sometimes not. In Wahoo, of course, all activities have gear data.

Leading me to conclude that SRAM's web components and/or integration to Wahoo is a little less than perfect.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

My new style SRAM AXS paddle shifter turned up today. I've put it on the bike but haven't ridden it yet, hopefully tomorrow.

The new style AXS shifter paddle has four points you can press, compared to the original AXS shifter paddle that has three points you can press (the actual AXS electronic shifter only has two switches so you don't get any more options there, just an extra point to press on the shifter paddle)

It seems to have three distinct shifting styles you can use:

It can be used like a SRAM cabled shifter push the big button with thumb for a lower gear - push the small front button with thumb for a higher gear

It can be used like the older Shimano Rapidfire shifters push the big button with thumb for a lower gear - pull the front button with index finger for a higher gear

It can also be used as a rocker where you rest the length of your entire thumb along the long big button and press each end to change up or down

First impressions are that although I've criticised it in the past I much prefer the original AXS shifter paddle layout to this new one. It could be down to position of the shifter on the bars and needing to change its angle more (I'm using a Wolftooth matchmaker mount which is bit limited for adjustment). I need to do a ride and see what happens.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

WR304 said:


> My new style SRAM AXS paddle shifter turned up today. I've put it on the bike but haven't ridden it yet, hopefully tomorrow.
> 
> The new style AXS shifter paddle has four points you can press, compared to the original AXS shifter paddle that has three points you can press (the actual AXS electronic shifter only has two switches so you don't get any more options there, just an extra point to press on the shifter paddle)
> 
> ...


So you don't like it? I'd have ordered one but can't find somewhere to order from yet.

I have my current AXS shifter set up so that down-click shifts into an easier gear, up-click harder, the opposite of the defaults, but closer to analog. I don't like the pointy end I feel in up-clicking. Might even shave it off like Nino's mechanic apparently did:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-...d-kate-courtneys-supersonic-scott-sparks.html

Hey so how do these blips get set up--it's implied that Kate Courtney's bike syncs dropper post and suspension lockout? That would be pretty cool.

Regardless I'd like to try my AXS dropper with a blip instead of an individual paddle, as that would free space to put my cable fork/shock Fox lockout in the Left Matchmaker spot.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> So you don't like it? I'd have ordered one but can't find somewhere to order from yet.
> 
> I have my current AXS shifter set up so that down-click shifts into an easier gear, up-click harder, the opposite of the defaults, but closer to analog. I don't like the pointy end I feel in up-clicking. Might even shave it off like Nino's mechanic apparently did:
> 
> ...


The really big issue with the new style AXS shifter paddle for me is that if you intend using it as a rocker (resting your thumb on the long button) in order to shift the upper part of the rocker it means pushing with your thumb joint, not your thumb the actual joint, which is painful even just doing it once or twice let alone thousands of times. If you look at the Mike Levy video and picture here you can see he's pushing through his thumb joint to shift too:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-axs-rocker-paddle-upgrade-kit-review-2020.html?trk=rss

This is a good article with detailed pictures showing how the SRAM AXS blip box is mounted for a AXS dropper seatpost on a Scott Spark:

https://mbaction.com/best-bike-hacks-a-better-dropper-seatpost/

The SRAM AXS blip box is wrapped in foam and hidden inside the frame downtube.









The wire to the blip box is then run out to the grip where the blip is embedded inside the grip.









This is the SRAM AXS compatibility map (click on the picture for larger version)

pdf: https://www.servicearchive.sram.com...77_rev_b_compatibility_map_axs_components.pdf









You'd have a blip box for the seatpost and the MTB Eagle AXS right hand shifter for the gears. You'd set them up as two separate systems that weren't wirelessly linked to each other (Etap AXS blip box + Reverb AXS seatpost as one major component and then MTB Eagle AXS right hand shifter + Eagle AXS rear derailleur as another major component so you'd have two different "bikes" visible in the AXS app that work independently of one another).


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## bigb73 (Oct 11, 2007)

$310 for the Blip Box and $110 for the buttons.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

WR304 said:


> This is a good article with detailed pictures showing how the SRAM AXS blip box is mounted for a AXS dropper seatpost on a Scott Spark:
> 
> https://mbaction.com/best-bike-hacks-a-better-dropper-seatpost/
> 
> The SRAM AXS blip box is wrapped in foam and hidden inside the frame downtube.


I constructed the foam box from the foam panel inside the SRAM AXS groupset box. It's the ideal thickness, put it together with doublesided adhesive tape as it's not easy to find suitable, strong enough glue. You have to squeeze the box a little when inserting through the bottom of the headtube.
The heat shrinking tube is 6.4mm in diameter. First you have to slide the blip cable through, second the brake hose. I'm using a Di2 rubber insert for the frame cover.

Box is put inbetween downtube and the inserts for the bolts of the frame covers.
The curve of the backside of the blip button is larger than the handlebar. At first I tried 2 layers of double sided adhesive tape for putting logo's on cars and installed it inside the grip like the pro's do but the button moved easily after using it a couple of times and I found it very irritating as you are touching it all the time.
So I installed it on top of my handlebars, between grip and lockout with self adhesive velcro for putting tools on the wall, see third image.

To guide the cable along the handlebar, I used a piece of innertube from a racing bicycle. Note : easiest is if you slide it onto the handlebar before installing your (brakes and / or) grips.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

With a SRAM AXS blipbox there's also the option of using the Zirbel WE01 twist shifters:

https://www.zirbel.ch/en/ajax/produ...roduct&cHash=d45759d00aac0f9d08fe60d5b111b401

They wire into it in the same way as a SRAM blip but have a two position switch so you could have a shifter on either side of the handlebars, replacing both of the AXS wireless shifters entirely (AXS rear gears and AXS dropper).

This video is of a super nice 2021 Specialized S-Works Epic which shows an MTB AXS blipbox and shifter installation. The shifters in this video are SRAM multiclics (fast forward to 2 minutes 48 seconds in the video for the SRAM AXS section).


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

It took me a few rides to try and get a feel for the new style SRAM AXS paddle shifter. After 7 hours riding with 1,526 gear shifts on the new style shifter, and then switching back to the original AXS shifter paddle for a 2 hour ride today, I think I understand what the differences are enough to say what works and what doesn't for me.









This picture shows the SRAM AXS shifter unit with the paddle removed. There are two buttons on the shifter and the paddle pivots on the highlighted point to press a button for a gear shift. The button function can be reversed in the SRAM AXS app.









This picture shows a SRAM X-1 cable operated trigger shifter, the SRAM AXS original paddle shifter and then the SRAM AXS new style paddle shifter at the bottom.

The SRAM X-1 cable operated trigger shifter is the reference position of the buttons. The small button (red dot) upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket and the large button (green dot) downshifts to a larger rear sprocket. This layout is standard on both current SRAM and Shimano cable operated trigger shifters and in terms of muscle memory totally automatic for me. I never ever make a misshift riding a bike on this shifter layout due to having had lots of practice.

The SRAM AXS original paddle shifter shows how I have it configured (the button functions can be reversed). The upper button (red dot) upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket and the bottom button (green dot) downshifts to a larger rear sprocket. In comparison to the cable shifter the bottom button location (green dot) is in exactly the same place as it would be using the cable shifter whilst the top button (red dot) is pulled back and up compared to the trigger shifter.

The SRAM AXS updated paddle shifter shows how I have it configured (there are several different permutations of buttons you can use). I was trying to emulate a trigger shifter so the small button (red dot) had to upshift to a smaller rear sprocket, exactly like on a cable operated shifter. This meant swapping the button function in the SRAM AXS app.

This is where the limitations of the two button and rocker pivot show up. With the small button (red dot) emulating the trigger shifter button it means that the bottom of the large paddle (red dot) also has to function as an upshift to a smaller sprocket whilst just the top of the large paddle (green dot) downshifts to a larger rear sprocket. The position of that green dot shows why I was having so many misshifts as it doesn't mirror the position of the large button on a cable operated trigger. It's actually close to where the red dot (upshift to smaller rear sprocket) is with my setup on the original SRAM AXS paddle, that I've been riding with for the last 6 months or so. Apart from the small upshift button (red dot) the other buttons on the new style AXS shifter paddle have the opposite function to what I've been used to. They're the opposite of a cable operated trigger shifter function also so my muscle memory is way off.









This picture shows the front buttons on a Shimano Deore XT M8000 2 way release cable operated trigger shifter and the front button on the new style SRAM AXS shifter. The red and green dots show the upshift and downshift function here also.

The Shimano Deore XT M8000 2 way release trigger shifter upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket when the small button is pushed. It also upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket when the front button is pulled with a finger.

The SRAM AXS new style front shifter has been extended compared to the original shifter paddle so that is very accessible and easy to pull. When the SRAM AXS small button is configured to upshift to a smaller rear sprocket however the front button will downshift to a larger rear sprocket instead, the opposite of what a Shimano 2 way release trigger shifter does. The original SRAM AXS shifter front button in my setup upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket, mirroring the Shimano front trigger function.

If that all sounds confusing and mismatched with the function of a cable operated trigger shifter it is! Trying to remember what button does what on the new AXS shifter paddle whilst riding saw me doing plenty of misshifts, usually downshifting to a larger rear sprocket when I wanted to shift up to a smaller rear sprocket instead. With practice and lots of concentration I was getting better but anytime I started riding automatically I was making frequent shifting errors.









This ride graph is a good example of what this looked like. I was riding uphill in the 34 x 33 tooth gear and wanted to upshift to the 34 x 28 tooth gear, speeding up. Instead I pressed the wrong button and ended up in the 34 x 51 tooth bottom gear, losing speed instead of gaining it! There are lots of those shifting mistakes all throughout my last few rides. :eekster:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Bike Rumor did a comparison article about the new style SRAM AXS shifter paddle here. Don't take the shifter paddle apart in the middle of some woods if you can help it as the spring would be easy to lose in those leaves on the ground! :

https://bikerumor.com/2020/11/10/review-sram-eagle-axs-rocker-paddle-upgrade-installed-worth-it/











It wasn't the main point of the review but what I found quite interesting was their comments about the original SRAM AXS paddle shifter.

_"Honestly, I never loved the ergonomics of the original AXS paddle shifter. The upper half sits considerably higher than any mechanical shifter lever, and the whole things sits a bit farther behind the bar, too. Meaning, thumb movements are exaggerated and require more effort.

And, no matter which way I made it work through the AXS app, I couldn't consistently remember which way shifted up or down. Because it's hard overcoming 15+ years of muscle memory, amiright?"_ *Bikerumor*

The SRAM AXS shifter unit is a rocker that pivots up and down (see my first picture in the post above with the paddle removed) so it doesn't seem to be physically possible to make a shifter paddle that can exactly mirror the button placement of a traditional cable operated trigger shifter, which is what would be most natural and require the least adaptation. What I was hoping for with the new style SRAM AXS shifter paddle would be that it would be more like a traditional shifter but it's limited by the shifter unit layout so can't do that.

Shimano have their Deore XT and XTR Di2 electronic shifting, which doesn't have an identical layout to a cable operated trigger either, but does have a closer layout than the SRAM AXS shifter with two separate buttons. It makes me wonder if Shimano have a patent on the button layout for an electronic MTB shifter that stopped SRAM being able to use that style layout for their AXS MTB shifter? I wouldn't be surprised to find that was the case.









For choosing a SRAM AXS shift layout, and then not consistently remembering which way shifts up or down, it is so annoying to have that issue, super stressful! I was really struggling with the new style shifter paddle but not the original shifter paddle.

The method I decided on with the original SRAM AXS shifter paddle was that the bottom of the paddle should downshift to a larger rear sprocket, and then the top of the paddle should upshift to a smaller rear sprocket. In this configuration the front button on the SRAM AXS shifter also upshifts to a smaller rear sprocket so that two out of the three buttons function like a cable shifter and I only had to learn the changed position of the upshift button.

up = upshift 
down = downshift

The way I thought of this was that gripshift goes the same way with its sequential shifting - twist up for an upshift and twist down for a downshift, as does Shimano dual control (I always used to really like those shifters even if no one else did  )

I thought it would be easiest for me to learn and remember that shift pattern automatically when I was focusing on riding, as even under pressure just thinking of Up and Down is enough to know which button to press to not make mistakes.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Had AXS since new, still have to think about which button to push.

It's not a great design. It's clunky and large. 

Have the new trigger on order, hoping it helps.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> Had AXS since new, still have to think about which button to push.
> 
> It's not a great design. It's clunky and large.
> 
> Have the new trigger on order, hoping it helps.


You are hard to please. I feel just the opposite, I think it is a great design, small for what it has going on, clunky I am not sure what you mean by that other than the sound it makes when shifting, that is a very well made steel cassette that is light and resonate, amplifies the sound. I love it. Outstanding piece of kit.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Agreed. AXS is fantastic. I switch between trail and race wheelsets and it’s just a matter of 2 clicks of micro adjust before it’s dialed in again.

My derailleur battery ran out for the first time today. As anticipated I was able to swap out the AXS seatpost battery and finish the ride.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The switch is physically too large to fit next to a brake lever. I've trimmed my switch, tried different mounts, it's just... passable.
The shifting itself is very nice.


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## philstone (Mar 14, 2011)

I’ve got the new shifter. Had a few mis-shifts with the original style, but the new one is far better. Haven’t accidentally shifted the wrong way since. It’s far more like the original mechanical setup. 


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## marathonman22 (May 20, 2011)

ColinL said:


> I had something similar happen after a firmware update. It actually didn't complete the firmware update, but I didn't realize it and tried to go for a ride. The derailleur wouldn't do jack crap until I got it done. So that's what I would check. Open the AXS app and see if the firmware install is done.


Yup same problem here... just that I do not yet have it working !
Any idea how to make it work ?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

marathonman22 said:


> Yup same problem here... just that I do not yet have it working !
> Any idea how to make it work ?


It's been over a year since that happened to me, but what I recall was that I restarted my phone and started the AXS app, and logged in. Then I installed the battery in the derailleur and it resumed the firmware update.

It's probably possible to 'brick' the firmware. If that did happen, you would need sram to help. You have to go through whatever dealer sold you the component affected to open a claim with sram; you can't do it directly as an end-user. Sram isn't in the end-user support business, they support their dealers.



Suns_PSD said:


> The switch is physically too large to fit next to a brake lever. I've trimmed my switch, tried different mounts, it's just... passable.
> The shifting itself is very nice.


I am trying to visualize your issue and I fail. Here's my bars, this is just a crop of a pic I took yesterday - it's easier to do than going into the garage right now and taking a new pic. My brake levers are set up for 1-finger operation which puts them relatively far inboard of grips. This leaves plenty of room for the AXS shifter pod. I happen to have it as far towards the center as possible because I have a fairly long thumb and it needs to be there, but it works well, as you might imagine my index finger and thumb are in proportion. 

... So what is your issue? Are you trying to mount the AXS shifter on the other side of your brake lever clamp, perhaps?


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

I need some help guys, please have a watch of this vid

http://www.youtube.com/shorts/uQBnp-Tcrn0

I have been struggling with my mech and shifting in the top cog (biggest)

Chain length is perfect done with fully air out of shock so it's not that, all limit screws and b tension spot on

However I cannot stop it skipping of jumping every so often in the biggest cog regardless of setup and yes mech hanger has been checked and checked again

The video shows the mech without the chain on but shifted into the biggest cog, as you can see there is a hell of a lot of play in one pivot like the bolts moving, I cannot confirm if this is normal so if some one could kindly test for me It would be greatly appreciated... it doesn't look normal to me at all as none of the other pivot areas have this movement but I don't know if it's normal

When I push the slack pivot in the mech cage looks parallel to the mech, when I let it flop down it sits obviously off centre, I'm guessing this is where my problem lies with the big cog and shifting band skipping as it's constantly slack due to that pivot????

Any thoughts or advice appreciated just really need to know if anyone else's mech does that movement shifted into the biggest cog but with no chain on

Hoping somebody can shed some light


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## Gregg K (Jan 12, 2004)

*Not normal.*

There is zero play in mine. And one would expect that from a thousand dollar shift group.



Didzy2009 said:


> I need some help guys, please have a watch of this vid
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/shorts/uQBnp-Tcrn0
> 
> ...


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Thought not, very worrying as I've really looked after this mech with the price it being

I had it november last year and this pin in video has worked it's way out, sadly it's not something you can just screw back in tight

it's actually sticking out at the top, all the other pins/pivots are firmly down in place, so you can easily see why there would be a lot of play in the biggest cog

Circled green it should be flush, it's not and there's no way of screwing it back in, no head on it and it's circlipped in underneath, the amount of flex/slop it's creating only when the mechs in the biggest cog is unreal without a chain in place so it's obvious it's gonna affect it when shifting and that's the cog I'm having constant headaches with


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

^^ Yuck. SRAM should warranty replace that without any questions. However, my experience is that they're not responsive to end-users at all. They will want you to go back to the SRAM dealer who sold you the kit and request the warranty replacement through them.


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## Didzy2009 (Jan 18, 2009)

Yep pretty pants, hopefully it’s a one off, I was amongst the first that had it as far as I know, we’ll certainly over a year ago adopter so fingers crossed it’s just the first batch, given where it is there’s nothing really anyone can do to make it happen in the first place, guess it’s just worked it’s way loose 

Have got the receipt and shop have kindly offered to send it off for me, this will be sram uk so not sure how long it will take but I’ll certainly be off the bike for a few weeks I’m sure, a bit gutting really but these things happen least it’s still in the warranty period is all I can say


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

Any thoughts on SRAM holding the current pricing levels (lower)(steady)(increasing) on the full group into next summer from the current $1400? I ordered my second set last week at a price $1399, significantly less than the $1900 I paid last year. I want a third set for a new build that won't be ready till summer.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

BillyBicycle said:


> Any thoughts on SRAM holding the current pricing levels (lower)(steady)(increasing) on the full group into next summer from the current $1400? I ordered my second set last week at a price $1399, significantly less than the $1900 I paid last year. I want a third set for a new build that won't be ready till summer.


not sure what you bought for $1399... can you elaborate?

for a while now, the kits have been shrunk down considerably. they only have shifter, rear derailleur, 1 battery, and the charger. which is all you need to upgrade an existing bike, but for a complete build you would be short the cranks, chain and cassette that used to be included in the kit when it was $1999.

at any rate, in my opinion, we won't see the price come down from $1,000 for the upgrade kit until/unless sram releases a lower-trim / cheaper option. X1 or GX level. presumably this would have a heavier, cheaper rear derailleur but I don't really see how they could make the shifter cheaper and still functional (unlike the mechanical groups).


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

ColinL said:


> not sure what you bought for $1399... can you elaborate?


"full group". crank, cassette, chain, der, shifter. I paid $1900 for my first set late last year, $1399 last week. thinking about picking up two more for new builds. But I hate having parts sit around devaluing.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

BillyBicycle said:


> "full group". crank, cassette, chain, der, shifter. I paid $1900 for my first set late last year, $1399 last week. thinking about picking up two more for new builds. But I hate having parts sit around devaluing.


ah, so you did find a pretty good deal. yet you haven't linked it here for others to enjoy. 

did your full group come with the 50t or 52t cassette?


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

ColinL said:


> ah, so you did find a pretty good deal. yet you haven't linked it here for others to enjoy.
> 
> did your full group come with the 50t or 52t cassette?


50T. Google is your friend  and I don't want to get any dealer in trouble for that pesky MAP crap. if it's online, doubt the price is below MAP.

I ordered two more sets for new chiner 120mm travel full squish builds. I'm not satisfied with the delivery times of new bikes from the traditional bike makers. Deliveries extend into "June" and that is "pending further delays".


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

BillyBicycle said:


> so anyway, you basically said what again about the pricing @ 1399 vs this summer?


I am not sure if the full groups are officially discontinued, or perhaps if it's just that the resellers I use aren't stocking them any longer.

at any rate, I see only the $1000 (list) kits that I mentioned above. I do not see any more of the $1900 full groups offered at Jensen, Competitive Cyclist, Universal Cycles, and so on.

honestly the full group doesn't make sense and never did. people who already had eagle xx and were early adopters had a spare set of cranks, chain and cassette they didn't even need. I didn't have that problem because I moved from 11 speed to 12 when I got axs. :thumbsup:

for new builds, there's nothing stopping anyone from buying xx cranks and cassette. or gx, whatever they prefer for their budget. and you can do that when you are able to buy the shifter & RD separately of everything else.


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## BillyBicycle (Jul 4, 2016)

ColinL said:


> honestly the full group doesn't make sense and never did.


mkay lol. makes total sense to me. Opinions may vary.

It is a nice group set all in one place at a reasonable price (if it's on sale and that is relatively speaking) for new builds.

I'm done with cable shifting for the foreseeable future on my builds. I tried to resist the wireless and built many 11 speed XTR bikes, but I drank the coolaid.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

BillyBicycle said:


> mkay lol. makes total sense to me. Opinions may vary.
> 
> It is a nice group set all in one place at a reasonable price (if it's on sale and that is relatively speaking) for new builds.


well your $1399 price is pretty insane, so yeah, of course that's great. you've found a great deal on some aging stock someone had and is desperate to unload at/below cost. (other option is that it's grey market..)

what I meant is that when $1900 was the only option, it created a barrier to entry. now that we have the $1000 option more people can (and presumably will) buy it because you could pair it with sx cranks, gx chain, and gx cassette for a LOT less than $1900. or, obviously, add it to any existing 12-speed Eagle bike.

...actually I just put that into my cart on universalcycles because I was curious, and it's $1335. thereby emphasizing what a great deal you got on the xx1 kit. :thumbsup:


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I want to convert my AXS to a wide ratio 11 speed utilizing the new E13 Helix 11sp cassette. Although I've been burned by E13 products before, in spite of their excellent customer service. I find 12 speed gears too close together and never need 1st gear anyways. Furthermore, when I accidentally select 1st gear, it kills my momentum. 
So to verify, 11 speed & 12 speed spacing is identical, so I can just adjust my low side limiter to prevent AXS from attempting to shift into my now nonexistent 1st gear on the Helix?
Please advise. 

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My AXS was working fine and went dead. I then replaced & swapped my batteries, held down buttons, etc. But it is completely dead!
Any advise?

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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> My AXS was working fine and went dead. I then replaced & swapped my batteries, held down buttons, etc. But it is completely dead!
> Any advise?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Try deleting app. Reinstall and reconnect. Worked for mine

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

bogeydog said:


> Try deleting app. Reinstall and reconnect. Worked for mine
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I spent 2-3 hours googling, searching docs, messing with it none of it worked. 
But THAT worked. Thanks so much!

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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> I spent 2-3 hours googling, searching docs, messing with it none of it worked.
> But THAT worked. Thanks so much!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I figured it over the summer. Spoke directly with SRAM and they were ready to warranty it. But I tried this and it worked. Been fine since.

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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I want to convert my AXS to a wide ratio 11 speed utilizing the new E13 Helix 11sp cassette. Although I've been burned by E13 products before, in spite of their excellent customer service. I find 12 speed gears too close together and never need 1st gear anyways. Furthermore, when I accidentally select 1st gear, it kills my momentum.
> So to verify, 11 speed & 12 speed spacing is identical, so I can just adjust my low side limiter to prevent AXS from attempting to shift into my now nonexistent 1st gear on the Helix?
> Please advise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Remember to have read somewhere that this would be bad for the shift motor in the derailleur. Have not tried it myself though... so only hear-say.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> I want to convert my AXS to a wide ratio 11 speed utilizing the new E13 Helix 11sp cassette. Although I've been burned by E13 products before, in spite of their excellent customer service. I find 12 speed gears too close together and never need 1st gear anyways. Furthermore, when I accidentally select 1st gear, it kills my momentum.
> So to verify, 11 speed & 12 speed spacing is identical, so I can just adjust my low side limiter to prevent AXS from attempting to shift into my now nonexistent 1st gear on the Helix?
> Please advise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Yes that will work just fine, as I documented earlier in this thread.

Insert Ryan Reynolds "but why?" gif

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

chomxxo said:


> Yes that will work just fine, as I documented earlier in this thread.
> 
> Insert Ryan Reynolds "but why?" gif
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So let's talk about that.

1) The extra gear on the 12 speed from an 11 speed is it the high gear (the small one) or the low gear (the big one)? If I threaded on a standard 11 speed cassette would I have additional space from 1st gear to the spokes, or conversely more space from the 11th gear to the chainstay?
2) You indicated that you made no changes at all to your AXS and swapped to 11 speed. I see no indication at all that AXS has the ability to adjust for this change. Were you adjusted correctly before? Maybe there are no ramps on your 11 speed 1st gear so even though AXS has tried to shift over to a non-existent even lower gear, with no ramps in the 1st gear to push the chain off maybe the chain just clings and can't shift?
3) Just to test my AXS 11 speed theory I adjusted my AXS derailleur low speed limit adjustment to prevent it from going in to the 1st gear on my 12 sp cassette. This worked fine EXCEPT that when I tried to begin upshifting again the AXS thought it was in a 12 sp 1st gear so it took 2 shifts for the derailleur to move from the now 2nd gear to 3rd gear, which in my future arrangement would result in 2 shifts to go from the 1st gear to the 2nd gear on my 11sp cassette . That's unacceptable.
4) So an idea a friend passed to me was to simply trim the AXS over to where it's natural stopping point was 1st gear on my 11sp cassette, and do the high speed limiter to prevent AXS from grabbing the very highest gear. The reasoning is simple: I hit 1st/ 2nd gear most rides a few times so the double AXS shift would be cumbersome on the low end. However on the high end I shift into the very top gear only a couple of times per year so the double shift required on that end wouldn't present an issue and is unlikely to occur at all as I'm unlikely to be looking for an even higher gear.

As to the question as to why an 11sp: I run 30T front for the high AS that it gives my bikes. I currently run a Leonardi 9-48 cassette and I find the 1st gear (the 48t) too low to climb anything at all. Whenever I accidentally grab the 1st gear it often results in an unsuccessful technical climb due to, too low of a bike speed. Furthermore I very often have to upshift 2x immediately in a row. I'll upshift, make 2-3 pedal rotations, and have to upshift again. The theory is that with the Helix 9-46 I would maintain all of the gear range I need and with less shifts overall on a ride. Also saving 45 grams on the rear cassette starts to matter when one considers that this is unsprung weight.

Lastly, I'd never purchase a cassette with more than 1 Aluminum cog, been burned on that before. The Helix 11 speed only gets 1 Al cog where-as the 12 speed version gets 2 Al cogs.

Yes, It' incremental improvement, but improvement none-the-less.

This would all be easier if SRAM would just release an 11 speed program available on the app.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

OK perhaps I shouldn't have asked 

Yes as documented, the 12th gear is an addition inwards to the spokes, the low gear, the big one. No spacing differences.

I myself don't like the connection interface for e.13; to use a technical term I think it's janky, but to each their own. I do enjoy the fact that you can keep old 11-speed cassettes for multiple wheelsets if you want to.



Suns_PSD said:


> So let's talk about that.
> 
> 1) The extra gear on the 12 speed from an 11 speed is it the high gear (the small one) or the low gear (the big one)? If I threaded on a standard 11 speed cassette would I have additional space from 1st gear to the spokes, or conversely more space from the 11th gear to the chainstay?
> 2) You indicated that you made no changes at all to your AXS and swapped to 11 speed. I see no indication at all that AXS has the ability to adjust for this change. Were you adjusted correctly before? Maybe there are no ramps on your 11 speed 1st gear so even though AXS has tried to shift over to a non-existent even lower gear, with no ramps in the 1st gear to push the chain off maybe the chain just clings and can't shift?
> ...


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Thinking of buying a AXS dropper for my new bike. I carry an extra battery in my pack so that decreases the difference in weight between a Bike Yoke. Anyone have any issues with theirs or regrets or thoughts?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

bogeydog said:


> Thinking of buying a AXS dropper for my new bike. I carry an extra battery in my pack so that decreases the difference in weight between a Bike Yoke. Anyone have any issues with theirs or regrets or thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No Ragrets! Seriously it's a great post. Adds about a pound to the bike over a lightweight rigid, but if you choose to swap between for XC racing, it's the only option. I started to get worried about its reliability but turns out I'd overtightened the seatpost clamp bolt. After I'd loosened it the post continued working flawlessly.

Love the option to swap batteries between derailleur and post too. Besides a backup in the field (which I've needed once due to forgetting) I cycle between them weekly to minimize the charging of both batteries: swap post battery to derailleur, charge derailleur battery, put on post.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Experts: new longer CS bike but with my entire old drivetrain including the chain, is this derailleur too stretched forward while in 1st gear? Seems to shift fine. 
Thanks









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## Boner Champ (Mar 31, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Experts: new longer CS bike but with my entire old drivetrain including the chain, is this derailleur too stretched forward while in 1st gear? Seems to shift fine.
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


Let all the air out of your shock, try to compress the suspension all the way, and you'll find out.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Lazy Squirrel said:


> Let all the air out of your shock, try to compress the suspension all the way, and you'll find out.


Added 2 links from a new chain I had. 4 links made the chain way loose in 12th gear.

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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

Just wondering if any of you AXS owners are using a Shimano 12 speed cassette and chain?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Vin829 said:


> Just wondering if any of you AXS owners are using a Shimano 12 speed cassette and chain?


Yes, and it works incredible! But I can't compare it to SRAM shifting. When I got my AXS shifting, I went straight to Shimano 12sp. Cassette and chain. XT 51/10 1st and now I'm on XTR 45/1, again perfect fast shifts. I decided to go this route based off this: A Mismatch Made in Heaven: XTR/AXS | BIKE Magazine


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## Vin829 (Mar 29, 2019)

mtbbiker said:


> Yes, and it works incredible! But I can't compare it to SRAM shifting. When I got my AXS shifting, I went straight to Shimano 12sp. Cassette and chain. XT 51/10 1st and now I'm on XTR 45/1, again perfect fast shifts. I decided to go this route based off this: A Mismatch Made in Heaven: XTR/AXS | BIKE Magazine


 Great to know. But some of the comments state that the narrow wide of the jockey wheels in the derailer don't play nice with the shimano 12 speed chain?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Vin829 said:


> Great to know. But some of the comments state that the narrow wide of the jockey wheels in the derailer don't play nice with the shimano 12 speed chain?


I've gotten well over 2k miles without noticing any issues with the jockey wheels. I forgot to mention my brother did the same thing with his AXS and at the same time. No issues at all with shifting Between he two of us. Maybe when my cassette wears out, I'll try Sram cassette.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Vin829 said:


> Great to know. But some of the comments state that the narrow wide of the jockey wheels in the derailer don't play nice with the shimano 12 speed chain?


The HG+ chain has a heck of a lot of friction/ binding and noise with the AXS N/W jockey wheel. I grinded my wide tooths down a fair bit using hand tools and that plus another 50 miles or riding on it or so all was well. 
I just don't notice any special shifting or anything however, but then I just have the Shimano chain, not the cassette.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Vin829 said:


> Great to know. But some of the comments state that the narrow wide of the jockey wheels in the derailer don't play nice with the shimano 12 speed chain?


I was trying to work that out as on my bike there has been no noticeable issue with the meshing between the SRAM AXS narrow wide jockey wheels and Shimano XTR M9100 12 speed chain. The chain runs smoothly on the jockey wheels and has from the very beginning. I've had a few chains on there and no problems.

I've got a SRAM AXS XX1 rear mech. There is also the SRAM AXS X01 rear mech, maybe that's different somehow perhaps?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Love the option to swap batteries between derailleur and post too. Besides a backup in the field (which I've needed once due to forgetting) I cycle between them weekly to minimize the charging of both batteries: swap post battery to derailleur, charge derailleur battery, put on post.


Something to watch out for if you're swapping the AXS batteries round frequently is that the battery design is the same as on the older SRAM Etap battery. The small plastic tab on the bottom of the removable battery is fragile and can snap off if you're not very careful when fitting and removing the batteries.









SRAM ETap Battery Flaw? - Weight Weenies







weightweenies.starbike.com





What I do is try and hold the battery in place whilst undoing the latch, so that it doesn't drop out by itself, to protect the plastic tab.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

That's troubling, I'll keep that in mind. I just rebuilt my mountain bike and now I'm going to rebuild my gravel/road bike with AXS. I'm thinking Force 1 brifters but a X01 AXS derailleur, giving me the option to go with a big cassette in the rear but also serving as a backup derailleur for the MTB. As far as I've read, there should be 100% compatibility between AXS road and MTB. My road wheels would be running a 10-32 or 10-36 cassette.

On my obsolete gravel wheelset I'd like to use a traditional spline driver (11 tooth) instead of XD, something like a NX PG-1230. I'd prefer a smaller cassette, be nice to see a (10)11-38 or (10)11-40 for gravel bikes.



WR304 said:


> Something to watch out for if you're swapping the AXS batteries round frequently is that the battery design is the same as on the older SRAM Etap battery. The small plastic tab on the bottom of the removable battery is fragile and can snap off if you're not very careful when fitting and removing the batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

WR304 said:


> Something to watch out for if you're swapping the AXS batteries round frequently is that the battery design is the same as on the older SRAM Etap battery. The small plastic tab on the bottom of the removable battery is fragile and can snap off if you're not very careful when fitting and removing the batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what 'frequently' is but I own 2 batteries and swap them about every week and leave the other on the charger in my rear console in my suv so it's always ready to go. I have never had an issue dropping one, and have not observed any wear on the tabs.

I'm not sure about the axs reverb, or the etap road/gravel applications, but on the axs mtb derailleur the battery kind of stays in place even after you unsnap it. It won't easily fall out when replacing it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The updated lever design is SO MUCH better than the original. 
It's 90% perfect to me now (original was pretty bad) and once I get my TS brakes with the very small band clamp, I'll finally be able to position my AXS lever perfectly. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

ColinL said:


> I'm not sure what 'frequently' is but I own 2 batteries and swap them about every week and leave the other on the charger in my rear console in my suv so it's always ready to go. I have never had an issue dropping one, and have not observed any wear on the tabs.
> 
> I'm not sure about the axs reverb, or the etap road/gravel applications, but on the axs mtb derailleur the battery kind of stays in place even after you unsnap it. It won't easily fall out when replacing it.


In that Weightweenies thread I linked it seems to vary how long they last. The start of that thread is from way back in 2017 blaming it on a bad batch of batteries but then it's still an ongoing issue at September 2020. It's one of those things, like the loosening pivots on Didzy2009's AXS rear derailleur a few posts back, that might not happen to everyone but is worth being aware of as a possible issue as the drivetrain gets older. 

The pictures of broken batteries in that thread give an idea of why they can potentially break at that point. If you look at the battery design it's a thin plastic tab on the bottom that sits in a metal slot on the rear derailleur. That plastic battery tab is unlikely to wear but it is thin and any twisting force, such as putting the battery in and out of the slot at an angle instead of sliding it in carefully, will put strain on the tab.


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

Best damn $25 upgrade. Always fought the old paddle design and the new one just works.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

TazMini said:


> Best damn $25 upgrade. Always fought the old paddle design and the new one just works.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where does one buy the new paddles?


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Does anyone know when Gx axs will release? Maybe 2022?


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## TazMini (Jun 21, 2019)

chomxxo said:


> Where does one buy the new paddles?











SRAM AXS Rocker Paddle Upgrade


The newly redesigned Eagle AXS Rocker Paddle gives the rider a traditional, familiar interface for their cutting-edge electronic control. Effortless electronic shifting paired with a more traditional feeling actuation allows riders who are new to using AXS quick integration and provides another...




thelostco.com





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

I tried shifting with the new paddle to get a feel of it in one of my LBS and that side paddle sticking out jabs into the side of my thumb when it’s not on the paddle. I like the smoother contour of the main paddles, but I would take my Dremel to that little side paddle.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for the link, ordered my rocker and just installed it, very clean and nice.

A bit of forced upgrade/late Xmas present, my Lightning Cranks broke and I just ordered new a XX1 Dub crankset. The AXS part of this discussion is the new Quarq AXS-enabled power meter that is coming with it, I'll be interested to see how that integrates into the app.



TazMini said:


> SRAM AXS Rocker Paddle Upgrade
> 
> 
> The newly redesigned Eagle AXS Rocker Paddle gives the rider a traditional, familiar interface for their cutting-edge electronic control. Effortless electronic shifting paired with a more traditional feeling actuation allows riders who are new to using AXS quick integration and provides another...
> ...


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I got a bike with axs yesterday. I have teo questions. One what are prople using to plug the frame ports and two why does sram suggest setting the limit screws up so wierd?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

I haven't tried the new shift paddle but I have always gotten on well with the original after some tinkering with the placement, both distance from my grip and the especially the angle of it. 

And it looks to me like your thumb could easily slip off the new one, so if you find yourself shifting on fast, rocky trails, perhaps it's not the best. or perhaps it's wonderful? It's good to have the option.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

If anyone happens to like the original clicker, be happy to sell you mine for a reasonable cost.

Just ordered a new road bike, found a great deal on the Pro's Closet with 2x Red Etap AXS. I'd also considered a new Specialized Tarmac SL7 Pro with Force 1x AXS. I really wanted 1x AXS, with maybe the option to swap out the derailleur to X01, but I'll at least be able to share batteries and manage all of my shifting stats in the app.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Got out on my first ride with axs the past weekend. Love the shifting its a game changer for me. But when descending the deraileur was very noisy compared to a standard eagle mech. Has anyonee else experienced this or have a solution? Its like since it has no cable the deraileur can pivot backwards very easily.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Mmmm no I haven't experienced that. After all there's no cables to slap around on the frame either. The clicking and whirring of the electric motors is an acquired taste, I think it's cool but others may not. 

I will say that even against the instructions of the included derailleur height guide, I find that AXS shifts better with the derailleur a little closer than advised to the largest cog. My XX1 cassette shifts well regardless, but I have a GX cassette on my trail wheelset that was a little reluctant to shift one way, regardless of micro-adjustment. It became more reliable once I took the adjustment screw down a few more milimeters.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

J_Westy posted a link to this detailed cassette and gear compatibility Google docs spreadsheet in another thread:









Bicycle Cassettes & Drivetrains


Cassettes USE THESE,Brand,Model,Freehub,Materials,Teeth,Cost ($),Range,Weight (g),St.Dev,Key,Min,Max,Sprockets Tot.,Al,Ti,1,2,3,4,5 ,,,,, Brand,No results, adjust filters.,,,,, No results, adjust filters. - - , Trickstuff,,,,,, Freehub,,,,,, XD ,,,,,, # Sprockets,,,,,, 11,,,,,, # Teeth Max,,,,,...




docs.google.com





It gives an idea of which combinations of cassettes should work with a SRAM AXS rear derailleur. The column to look at is "sprocket pitch measured" (the distance between the centre of each sprocket in mm). The closer that sprocket spacing measurement is to a SRAM Eagle 12 speed MTB cassette sprocket spacing (3.65mm) the more likely it is that the shifting will work acceptably with a SRAM AXS setup.










Per this spreadsheet a 12 speed MTB SRAM Eagle cassette has a sprocket spacing of 3.65mm
A 12 speed MTB Shimano cassette has a sprocket spacing of 3.55mm (a difference of 0.10mm)
A 11 speed MTB SRAM cassette has a sprocket spacing of 3.9mm (a difference of 0.35mm)
A 11 speed MTB Shimano cassette has a sprocket spacing of 3.9mm (a difference of 0.35mm)

It's not a combination many people are likely to use but a 11 speed Road Shimano cassette has a sprocket spacing of 3.69mm (a difference of 0.04mm) so you can run a 11 speed road Shimano cassette in a otherwise SRAM Eagle MTB drivetrain and it should shift well.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

While I'm sure the above data collected was thorough, I have to say this conflicts with my real-world tests. I used a 12 speed Eagle derailleur for a couple of years with 11-speed XX1, and as videos show in this thread, an AXS XX1 12 speed derailleur shifted flawlessly with an 11-speed XX1 cassette. Perhaps I should get out the calipers myself and test those sprocket pitches. This was not my idea; I've read elsewhere that the sprocket pitches for SRAM 11 and 12 speed are the same, as is the cable throw.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

This is a bummer. I just ordered an 11 speed E13 Helix cassette with the goal of running 11 speed on my AXS because it was indicated that this was just fine. Was under the impression that the cassette spacing between the cogs was identical.
Turns out that this is not the case.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

chomxxo said:


> While I'm sure the above data collected was thorough, I have to say this conflicts with my real-world tests. I used a 12 speed Eagle derailleur for a couple of years with 11-speed XX1, and as videos show in this thread, an AXS XX1 12 speed derailleur shifted flawlessly with an 11-speed XX1 cassette. Perhaps I should get out the calipers myself and test those sprocket pitches. This was not my idea; I've read elsewhere that the sprocket pitches for SRAM 11 and 12 speed are the same, as is the cable throw.


Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk
Bust the calipers out.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

OK taking a deep breath, let's look at this data again. This is partly due to our inexperience with what sprocket pitch (diameter) is. It's the amount of the pulley that is angled from the top--not really a big deal.









Take a look at these numbers, all the way down to 10 speed. Exactly the same derailleur ratio for 11&12s (1.12), exactly the same sprocket width (1.6) for 10 through 12 speed. This is why 11 and 12 speed SRAM work together. Also, with the correct cable pull (shifter upgrade), you can (allegedly) use SRAM 10 speed derailleurs with 11 or 12 speed. I haven't tested this myself but have the parts to do so.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

WR304 said:


> J_Westy posted a link to this detailed cassette and gear compatibility Google docs spreadsheet in another thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is the be deraileur pitch the distance between the cassette and the upper jockey wheel?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

chomxxo said:


> OK taking a deep breath, let's look at this data again. This is partly due to our inexperience with what sprocket pitch (diameter) is. It's the amount of the pulley that is angled from the top--not really a big deal.
> View attachment 1913333
> 
> 
> ...


honest question, no snark intended.. did you post this in the wrong thread?

because I have no clue what this matters for axs or why would we care. the derailleur and shifter both have to be axs or e-tap. once that's done, you have 12s compatibility. between sram's road and mtb cassettes, and the sizes of chainrings available, why would anyone care about 10 or 11 speed cassettes and derailleurs? especially derailleurs, they are useless with axs (this thread)?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ColinL said:


> honest question, no snark intended.. did you post this in the wrong thread?
> 
> because I have no clue what this matters for axs or why would we care. the derailleur and shifter both have to be axs or e-tap. once that's done, you have 12s compatibility. between sram's road and mtb cassettes, and the sizes of chainrings available, why would anyone care about 10 or 11 speed cassettes and derailleurs? especially derailleurs, they are useless with axs (this thread)?


I for one desire to run a wide ratio 11 speed cassette with my AXS.

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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> OK taking a deep breath, let's look at this data again. This is partly due to our inexperience with what sprocket pitch (diameter) is. It's the amount of the pulley that is angled from the top--not really a big deal.
> 
> Take a look at these numbers, all the way down to 10 speed. Exactly the same derailleur ratio for 11&12s (1.12), exactly the same sprocket width (1.6) for 10 through 12 speed. This is why 11 and 12 speed SRAM work together. Also, with the correct cable pull (shifter upgrade), you can (allegedly) use SRAM 10 speed derailleurs with 11 or 12 speed. I haven't tested this myself but have the parts to do so.





utmtbrider said:


> Is the be deraileur pitch the distance between the cassette and the upper jockey wheel?


That Google docs spreadsheet isn't mine. For that measurement a clearer description would be "sprocket spacing" or "cog spacing". It is the distance between the centre of each sprocket in mm. I edited the previous post to show this. 

In order to double check the measurements in that Google docs spreadsheet you can use a digital caliper and carefully measure the distance in mm between the centre of one sprocket and an adjacent sprocket on a cassette at home. If you have a cassette with loose sprockets it's the width of 1 sprocket + 1 spacer together.

The differences in sprocket spacing are worth knowing because the amount that a SRAM AXS rear derailleur moves per button press cannot be adjusted. If you want to use a non SRAM Eagle cassette (eg: a Shimano MTB 12 speed cassette with SRAM AXS) the closer that sprocket spacing is to SRAM Eagle the better the shifting should be.

When you're talking about small differences in spacing the derailleur does have some tolerance built in. If you take the tension off the chain of a SRAM AXS rear derailleur and give that upper jockey wheel a wiggle from side to side there's a bit of intentional free play in the jockey wheel. This free play allows the upper jockey wheel to self adjust its position, so that even if the alignment between rear derailleur and a sprocket is slightly off it can still run.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm sorry but I think that just made for more confusion. I get what you're trying to do here and be helpful, but let's be really clear (possibly to contradict what you said): 11 and 12 speed SRAM are indeed compatible, and the data shows that their sprocket spacing is exactly the same.



WR304 said:


> That Google docs spreadsheet isn't mine. For that measurement a clearer description would be "sprocket spacing" or "cog spacing". It is the distance between the centre of each sprocket in mm. I edited the previous post to show this.
> 
> In order to double check the measurements in that Google docs spreadsheet you can use a digital caliper and carefully measure the distance in mm between the centre of one sprocket and an adjacent sprocket on a cassette at home. If you have a cassette with loose sprockets it's the width of 1 sprocket + 1 spacer together.
> 
> ...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> I'm sorry but I think that just made for more confusion. I get what you're trying to do here and be helpful, but let's be really clear (possibly to contradict what you said): 11 and 12 speed SRAM are indeed compatible, and the data shows that their sprocket spacing is exactly the same.


You can make cassettes with small differences in spacing work due to the built in tolerance of the rear derailleur. A small difference in sprocket spacing doesn't automatically mean incompatibility.

As always with this type of thing there's no need to take my word for it as you can use a digital caliper and measure a few cassettes to verify if what is in the spreadsheet is correct or not.

I've just measured a 12 speed 10-52 tooth SRAM X01 cassette, a 12 speed 10-51 tooth Shimano XTR cassette and a 11 speed 10-42 tooth SRAM XG-1150 cassette. The sprocket spacing for the ones I have here match up with what is entered in the spreadsheet.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

WR304, That'd be fine to do if the data and the real-world testing didn't already agree with me 

Which cassettes have the *exact same derailleur ratio* in the data "Extent the derailleur moves for a given amount of cable pull"? (1.12):
*SRAM 11 and 12 speed MTB.*

Which cassettes have the *exact same sprocket width (1.6)*: *Shimano 10-12 speed Road and MTB, SRAM 10-12 Road and MTB.*

Sprocket Pitch is defined in the sheet as "Distance between the center of each sprocket (mm)": the measured distance of .25mm between 11 and 12 speed SRAM MTB. Frankly I think this is a misnomer.

If there was different spacing between 11 and 12 speed SRAM MTB, *why would the derailleur ratio of 1.12 be exactly the same?* It wouldn't, it would be different. Which other cassettes have this exact same derailleur ratio? * None*.

And for your example, *the derailleur ratio is widely different for Shimano 11 speed road cassette*: 1.4, a difference of .3mm.

Here's an *E.thirteen product that allows you to convert to 12 speed using 11 speed components*:





E*Thirteen Trs+2 Speed Upgrade Kit | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com





From the sheet, we can also see that *SRAM 10 and 11 speed road are 100% compatible*, with exactly the same cable pull, derailleur ratio, sprocket width, and sprocket pitch.

The smoking gun here is the width of the cassette. You'll see that the 12 speed MTB has a cassette width of 41.8 and a sprocket pitch of 3.65. That should mean that the cassette should be 40.15mm wide but it isn't, it's 41.8mm. For an 11 speed MTB cassette with a 3.9 sprocket pitch, it should be 39mm wide but it's 40.8. I don't think what you perceive the sprocket pitch to be is what it actually is 












WR304 said:


> You can make cassettes with small differences in spacing work due to the built in tolerance of the rear derailleur. A small difference in sprocket spacing doesn't automatically mean incompatibility.
> 
> As always with this type of thing there's no need to take my word for it as you can use a digital caliper and measure a few cassettes to verify if what is in the spreadsheet is correct or not.
> 
> I've just measured a 12 speed 10-52 tooth SRAM X01 cassette, a 12 speed 10-51 tooth Shimano XTR cassette and a 11 speed 10-42 tooth SRAM XG-1150 cassette. The sprocket spacing for the ones I have here match up with what is entered in the spreadsheet.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Really don't think the derailleur pull is a measure of the gear cluster spacing because the derailleur moves on a parallelogram not just horizontally. This allows the shifter to have all the same length levers with just something to manage the number of clicks internally.

I just measured/ compared an 11 speed Helix vs a 12 speed Leonardi cassette. It's not easy to measure such small differences accurately, so what I did was grab the 10 speed cluster from the Helix (the 1st Al gear wasn't installed) and match the clusters up. The low gear of the Helix to the high gear of the Leonardi.

It's my belief that 10 gears on the 11 speed Helix lines up very closely with 10.5 - 10.6 gears on the 12 speed. What I'm saying is that the 11 speed cassette is about half a gear wider than the 12 speed by the time you go across 10 gears.
How significant is that? Don't know. If you centered the derailleur on 6th gear (on an 11 speed) you'd only be about 1/4 of a gear off at either end. Plus the 12 speed chain is more narrow so this probably gives you some additional wiggle room.

That said I was pretty excited about converting my 12 sp AXS to an 11 sp but I don't want to just throw money at something that might work poorly and then I can't return. Not sure at this time how to proceed.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Neither of those are SRAM cassettes. You guys would make me waste more time proving something that's already clear as day in the data and testing...reminds me of some of the marketing reps I work with...sorry I'm headed to Big Bend Ranch for the weekend. Maybe next week.


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## obikeo (Jun 22, 2016)

So I just received my AXS upgrade kit, but they sent me XX1 instead of the XO1 I ordered. From what I can find the only real difference is some carbon instead of aluminum bits on the derailleur. Is that correct? I ordered XO1 because I feel it might be slightly more durable and since it is going on an aluminum trail/enduro bike I thought that would be more appropriate. They have offered to exchange it or give me a credit of $40 (what it would cost in shipping to return/replace) and just keep XX1.
So I guess my questions are is there anything else different between XX1 and XO1 that I might not be aware of and is XO1 more durable?


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I for one desire to run a wide ratio 11 speed cassette with my AXS.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


but... why?? is 10-52 not enough? and if it's "too much" ... who cares? on my average ride I will use one or two gears more than 80% of the time. I use 2 or 3 gears a little. I need the full range at times, though, absolutely. and what harm has it done me to only need 5 of my 12 gears on most of my rides? I have to say, it's zero.

so... is it not enough range?
sram has engineers and test equipment and concluded a decade ago (yes) when they launched 11 speed xx1 10-42 cassettes that 9 tooth cogs do not work. they bind because the circle made around 9 teeth is too small, which makes the chain angular, and you can feel it and it lowers your pedaling efficiency. it's right here: SRAM XX1: Component development and details

but that didn't stop e13, sunrace and others from doing it anyway. why? because no one reads, and will quickly assume that 9 must be better than 10. sram are just fools for not doing it first, right?

if it's cost - I wholeheartedly agree that the xx1 10-50 or 10-52 cassette is overpriced. yet I have one on my bike, anyway. if I dislike the cost of replacing it, I can use a cheaper sram cassette, all the way down to sub-$90 11-50 12 speed sunrace.

if it's ratios - first of all I disagree that 10-52 is anything resembling close-ratio, but if I shift and it's not enough, what do we do? keep shifting!

I truly do not understand why anyone cares about 10 and 11 speed cassettes once you have an AXS derailleur and shifter. there's no justification for it other than being different for the sake of being different. and if you don't have an AXS derailleur and shifter, then you don't have AXS and you're definitely posting in the wrong thread.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Well, here might be an exception and possible answer as to why. 

On my gravel bike which sees double duty as my road bike I run a hybrid SRAM drivetrain because I want a single chain ring and wireless shifting. So it’s Force etap AXS brake levers/shifters and out back I run the XX1 AXS mountain bike derailleur with the XX1 10-50 cassette. I never use the 50, and I wouldn’t mind dropping some weight off the bike. I have an X01 11-speed 10-42 cassette that on my scale weighs 262g vs the 363g 10-50. 

I haven’t tried swapping cassettes, didn’t know I could, but if you’re telling me it’ll work I’d gladly give it a go.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ColinL said:


> but... why?? is 10-52 not enough? and if it's "too much" ... who cares? on my average ride I will use one or two gears more than 80% of the time. I use 2 or 3 gears a little. I need the full range at times, though, absolutely. and what harm has it done me to only need 5 of my 12 gears on most of my rides? I have to say, it's zero.
> 
> so... is it not enough range?
> sram has engineers and test equipment and concluded a decade ago (yes) when they launched 11 speed xx1 10-42 cassettes that 9 tooth cogs do not work. they bind because the circle made around 9 teeth is too small, which makes the chain angular, and you can feel it and it lowers your pedaling efficiency. it's right here: SRAM XX1: Component development and details
> ...


Here is my take on it, right or wrong:

10-52 using 12 gears is more close ratio than 9-46 using 11 gears. For AM riding I have wanted to test wider spaced gears for sometime just because I double shift often or just pedal a rotation or 2 before the next shift is needed. On smoother terrain I can understand while dialing in the ideal cadence makes sense. But in my terrain my speed goes from fast, to slow, to fast again often and quickly.

Currently my aftermarket rear cassette goes from 9-48. When I accidentally click in to 48 it's annoying cause the bike moves too slow to have momentum. But the 2th gear on that cassette (39t I think) is a bit too high of a gear for the toughest of climbs. I do genuinely need the 48t from time to time but a 46t will work as well in those situations. I wish I could just bolt on an XX1 11speed cassette and save 120 grams. but the 42t isn't quite enough for these chicken legs.

If I could actually reduce the number of shifts on a ride by 20%, I feel that's a notable performance advantage. Saving weight, better ground clearance, and just looking a little less stupid than the pie plate 52t are just bonuses.

As far as the 9t usability, it's quite literally a coasting DH type of gear. Yes the 9t can feel a slight bit notchy (as can the 10t btw) but for such limited usage that doesn't matter to me.

It's not a cost issue, and I quite like my Leonardi rear cassette and it even matches my bike, but it has began to squeak something awful so I've began to look at other options.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> WR304, That'd be fine to do if the data and the real-world testing didn't already agree with me
> 
> Which cassettes have the *exact same derailleur ratio* in the data "Extent the derailleur moves for a given amount of cable pull"? (1.12):
> *SRAM 11 and 12 speed MTB.*
> ...


SRAM AXS is a wireless electronic drivetrain. There is no cable and therefore no cable pull or derailleur shift ratio. SRAM AXS uses an electric motor that moves the derailleur a pre programmed distance with each shift. This shift distance was typed in by someone at SRAM and is not user changeable.

In order to determine what casette sprocket spacing is most likely to work with SRAM AXS the measured sprocket spacing (i.e. Shimano MTB 12 speed 3.55mm, SRAM MTB 12 speed 3.65mm, SRAM MTB 11 speed 3.9mm) is the best guide to base decisions on.

Although cable pull and derailleur shift ratio can be used as an alternate way to calculate sprocket spacing (in a cable actuated drivetrain) this Art's Cyclery blog post explains why it is still preferable to use the measured sprocket spacing of the cassette itself where possible.

_"The precision of measuring equipment leads to as much as a 3.24% difference in calculated and measured values." _*Art's Cyclery

Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility*

In order to calculate the theoretical width of a cassette there are two known values: the sprocket spacing (3.65mm for a SRAM MTB 12 speed cassette) and the sprocket width (1.6mm for a SRAM MTB 12 speed cassette). The sprocket spacing is equal to 1 sprocket plus 1 spacer so 3.65mm - 1.6mm = 2.05mm which is the width of 1 spacer.

In a 12 speed cassette there are 12 sprockets (each 1.6mm wide) and 11 spacers (each 2.05mm wide).

The theoretical width of a SRAM MTB 12 speed cassette would be

(12 x 1.6mm) + (11 x 2.05mm) = 41.75mm

Round that to 1 decimal place and it gives a theoretical cassette width of 41.8mm.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

MattMay said:


> Well, here might be an exception and possible answer as to why.
> 
> On my gravel bike which sees double duty as my road bike I run a hybrid SRAM drivetrain because I want a single chain ring and wireless shifting. So it's Force etap AXS brake levers/shifters and out back I run the XX1 AXS mountain bike derailleur with the XX1 10-50 cassette. I never use the 50, and I wouldn't mind dropping some weight off the bike. I have an X01 11-speed 10-42 cassette that on my scale weighs 262g vs the 363g 10-50.
> 
> I haven't tried swapping cassettes, didn't know I could, but if you're telling me it'll work I'd gladly give it a go.


sram makes a 10-36 road 12 speed cassette. only in red but hey, it's cheaper than the xx1 eagle cassette.

when eagle was rumored but not yet released, I expected sram to launch with a 10-42 12 speed cassette with closer ratios for xc racers. they didn't, and still haven't, so I guess their factory xc racers don't see the need.

_if_ they did such a thing the obvious place to do it is the small end. 10-11-13 would be helpful but then you have to change every gear, or you have a large % change somewhere else.

anyway. you guys are looking for a problem that doesn't exist.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Welp, mounted up a Helix 11 speed on to my AXS and it shifts beautifully, dare I say better than the aftermarket 12 speed cassette that came off.
Lining up the 2 cassettes teeth to teeth it's clear to me the 11 speed has more space between the gears, about 1/2 between 2 cogs by the time you get across 10 clusters, but by the time you center the chain on 6th gear it doesn't seem to effect anything on the ends.
Will report back when I know more.

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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Ran an experiment today: put a modified XO1 11-speed cassette (swapped the standard 42 with a Wolftooth 46 cog) on my gravel bike equipped with Force AXS shifters, Eagle AXS Mtb derailleur, 10-50 cassette, and Eagle 12-speed chain.

Didn’t change a thing other than the cassette. Same Eagle Mtb chain. Didn’t touch the b screw, didn’t adjust the shifters, didn’t touch the limit screws. 

Result: it worked pretty darn good. One cog, I believe the 21 sounded a bit off. 

Anyway, I was surprised. Makes me think that with some limit screw tweaking it would work. Not sure about the chain. And not sure I want to do this in general.

Edit: Forgot to mention I have i9 road hubs, and they work for both 11 and 12 speed XD cassettes by way of a 1 mm spacer they include ( use it for 11 spd, remove for 12 spd)...goes to the note above about cassette widths.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Suns_PSD said:


> Welp, mounted up a Helix 11 speed on to my AXS and it shifts beautifully, dare I say better than the aftermarket 12 speed cassette that came off.
> Lining up the 2 cassettes teeth to teeth it's clear to me the 11 speed has more space between the gears, about 1/2 between 2 cogs by the time you get across 10 clusters, but by the time you center the chain on 6th gear it doesn't seem to effect anything on the ends.
> Will report back when I know more.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


Looking forward to what you learn!


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

MattMay said:


> Ran an experiment today: put a modified XO1 11-speed cassette (swapped the standard 42 with a Wolftooth 46 cog) on my gravel bike equipped with Force AXS shifters, Eagle AXS Mtb derailleur, 10-50 cassette, and Eagle 12-speed chain.
> 
> Didn't change a thing other than the cassette. Same Eagle Mtb chain. Didn't touch the b screw, didn't adjust the shifters, didn't touch the limit screws.
> 
> ...


You have held the cassettes in your own hands and measured them. You know the cog spacing is not the same. You know that the derailleur moves a precise amount which matches the sram 12 speed cassette.

I believe you, certainly, that the derailleur will shift the 11 speed cassette. So if that's what we are defining as 'working' then yes you've already proven that, as have others.

BUT-
It will never shift as smoothly as the 12 speed because the derailleur's movement does not match the cog spacing, AND, somewhere in that 11 speed cluster you will have at least one gear and probably 2 or more, that have some noise because the chain is not perfectly lined up. It'll be slightly inboard or out enough to make noise. That noise also comes with friction.

You get to pick which gears make noise by using micro-adjust. And maybe it's a gear you rarely use, and don't care. But if you want it to work perfectly, the same as 12 speed cassette, you really are fooling yourself.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

So on my 11 sp cassette the chain was snagging just a hair while in 11th gear (9t). Basically once a rotation one chain roller pin would hook on the very edge of 10th gear before dropping down. Just 2 micro trim adjustments corrected this however with seemingly no downsides anywhere else in the cassette.
Suspecting that the narrow XTR chain I'm running assists with the small misalignment which equates to about a 1/4 of a cog pitch at either end, that said I can not visually see any misalignment at either end nor measure with my feeler gauge the chain trying to ride too close to the next cog.
The only thing I'm noticing on my wide ratio 11 speed is that if B-gap is set as SRAM recommends, it's still a fast shift but it's a louder upshift as the chain seems to fall further. I'm no expert at setting up drivetrains and have a hard time detecting small differences.
I have no doubt that the 11-speed cassette spacing is not ideal for the 12-speed derailleur but I think running the narrow 12-speed chain essentially covers that up. I think if you tried to throw an 11-speed chain on there you would start to really notice issues.
One last thing, on my road test this Helix 11 speed cassette combined with my Axs can take an absolute full power upshift or downshift in a way that a stock 12 speed Sram cannot in my experience.

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Helix 11 speed operates perfectly on AXS. Shifts better than I ever recall Sram 12 speed or Leonardi 12 speed shifting.
Wide Ratio is real! In my head it was a great idea; in reality in my terrain the larger gear gaps are significant. Found I was upshifting too soon based on the previous closer ratio gears and found myself straining more that usual and now needing to make a concerted effort to spin each gear out a little further. Also noticed I'm a tad in between climbing gears on the steepest climbs. 46t was a little too low whereas 2nd gear 39t felt a bit too high at times.
Surely I'll work the gearing out. Basically I need to increase the bandwidth of the rpm I pedal at.

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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Gotta go with ColinL on this one. No reason for me to trade perfect shifting for something less than...just to lose 100g. I’m sure the Helix is great, but a SRAM X01 11-spd cassette isn’t. It’s ok, not great. There’s a reason SRAM designed things the way they did. Not gonna mess with or second guess that.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

That 11sp Helix on my AXS not only has great gear ratios for AM riding, but in fact is the best shifting set up I've ever operated, by a good margin.

Regarding the gear ratios, by the second ride the wider gaps became natural feeling, I just notice needing quite a bit fewer shifts overall. The thing I was doing on 12 speed where I'd shift, pedal a rotation or 2, and already need another upshift is just gone. Perfect. Exactly what I wanted. And the 46t first gear is a great climbing speed for me. Can go up anything for any amount of time, but still has a bit of momentum to clear ledges. Also doesn't drop when pedalled backwards.
The shifting quality, and I acknowledge that my varying (complete lack of) set up skills are a contributing factor, is phenomenal. Nearly Hyperglide like. So good even when under power. I'd say it shifts just as fast and consistently as HG+, but with just a bit more noise, mostly because of the larger distance the chain has to drop under an upshift.
The end result is more than I ever hoped for. If this thing holds up, and it should with only 1 Al gear, E13 hit it out of the park.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Told you so WR304 and Suns_PSD

We can still be friends 


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> That 11sp Helix on my AXS not only has great gear ratios for AM riding, but in fact is the best shifting set up I've ever operated, by a good margin.
> 
> Regarding the gear ratios, by the second ride the wider gaps became natural feeling, I just notice needing quite a bit fewer shifts overall. The thing I was doing on 12 speed where I'd shift, pedal a rotation or 2, and already need another upshift is just gone. Perfect. Exactly what I wanted. And the 46t first gear is a great climbing speed for me. Can go up anything for any amount of time, but still has a bit of momentum to clear ledges. Also doesn't drop when pedalled backwards.
> The shifting quality, and I acknowledge that my varying (complete lack of) set up skills are a contributing factor, is phenomenal. Nearly Hyperglide like. So good even when under power. I'd say it shifts just as fast and consistently as HG+, but with just a bit more noise, mostly because of the larger distance the chain has to drop under an upshift.
> The end result is more than I ever hoped for. If this thing holds up, and it should with only 1 Al gear, E13 hit it out of the park.


Nice to hear that this combo works well!

On which end you have the "extra gear" set to on the AXS? Or I mean that you have now 11 cogs but 12 gears on the AXS, does the extra click try to move chain out from the smallest or the biggest cog? And I presume you have prevented chain jumping off the cassette with the limit screws? How does the RD behave when it hits the mechanical limiter, does it just try to push beyond the limit screw, or is there some kind of (torque) limitation on the RD servo motor that stops it on the mechanical limit..?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Verttii said:


> Nice to hear that this combo works well!
> 
> On which end you have the "extra gear" set to on the AXS? Or I mean that you have now 11 cogs but 12 gears on the AXS, does the extra click try to move chain out from the smallest or the biggest cog? And I presume you have prevented chain jumping off the cassette with the limit screws? How does the RD behave when it hits the mechanical limiter, does it just try to push beyond the limit screw, or is there some kind of (torque) limitation on the RD servo motor that stops it on the mechanical limit..?


I trimmed AXS to where 1st gear on AXS lines up with 1st gear on the Helix.
Then I focused on centering the chain on 6th gear (when AXS is in its 6th gear as well) so that any cog spacing issues would be split up to either end of the cassette and since I spend most of my time towards the middle of the cassette anyways 1 trim adjustment from there was required to get rid of the tiniest snag of a chain roller pin end while in 2nd gear.
Then used the high limit to prevent AXS from shifting into 12th gear.
On the stand when I try to shift into 12th, it makes no noise at all but will then require 2 downshifts to go from 11th to 10th as AXS is thinking it's shifting from 12th to 11th first and the derailer doesn't move at all, then from 11th to 10th where it shifts perfectly.
Practically speaking on the trails, I'll never try to shift into a higher gear than 9t so I won't encounter this issue. But even if I did it's on the end of the cassette that won't ruin a climb or anything.

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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Alright, good stuff @Suns_PSD !


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I've had no issues at all with my SRAM XX1 AXS shifting, until last Saturday.

On the last hill of the day I shifted into the 34x51 bottom gear and then was stuck in bottom gear unable to shift back onto a smaller rear sprocket. The rear derailleur just made a chirping noise rather than the "vvvtt, vvvvtt, vvvtt" noise it usually makes with each rear shift. It wouldn't move onto a smaller sprocket again despite lots of pressing of the shifter. At least I was almost home so rode up the hill slowly. 

When I got home I took the rear derailleur off the bike and with no chain fitted it was working again throughout the full range of motion of the rear derailleur! I soaked all the rear derailleur pivots in penetrating oil to make sure they were lubricated and not stuck. The shifter has a fresh CR2032 battery and the rear derailleur has a fully charged rear battery with green lights all round and off the bike it seemed to be working normally with the usual "vvvtt, vvvtt, vvvtt" each shift so all the electronics were fine.

Thinking it would be ok I then put it back on the bike with a chain fitted. The linked video is of the rear derailleur after I had lubricated all the pivots and put it back on to test. This video needs to have the sound on so you can hear the noise the rear derailleur is making. I had shifted up onto the largest rear sprocket and was pressing the shift paddle repeatedly throughout the video. Rather than shifting down again the rear derailleur is making that repeated chirping noise over and over.









SRAM XX1 AXS Derailleur Stuck Bottom Gear Noise.MOV







drive.google.com





Removed from the bike again after that video it shifts up and down again with no issues. With a chain fitted and in bottom gear this rear derailleur under tension won't change down onto a smaller sprocket anymore however. I think it's possibly a mechanical issue with the small gear teeth inside the motor slipping or jamming when the derailleur is under tension.

I haven't heard of anyone else having experienced this exact issue with a SRAM XX1 AXS rear derailleur before but if it does happen whilst out riding I think that removing the chain tension, then trying to shift to a different gear and not using the bottom gear again, might be enough to get the gears working enough to finish the ride.

According to the box the SRAM XX1 AXS upgrade kit I have was manufactured Week 32 2019.

I purchased it new May 2020 and it had been in use between 16 May 2020 and 10 July 2021. According to the WKO5 summary this rear derailleur has done 135,769 rear shifts, 594 hours 55 minutes moving time across 191 rides.

Although the issue is with the rear derailleur in the 34x51 bottom gear according to the statistics I only actually spent a total of 5 hours 47 minutes and 17 seconds (0.97% of the total ride time) in bottom gear.


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## K4izen (Feb 2, 2021)

Posting here to subscribe to this thread. I am a bee’s duck away from purchasing a GX AXS kit to replace my XTR M9100 and XT M8100 cassette combo (XTR chain) Main problem is not enjoying my ride, as the derailleur requires adjustments after every ride (or up to three rides at its best). After long troubleshooting I may surrender towards this path.

Any recommended upgrades that people find really useful? Perhaps upgrading to after market jockey wheels?


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

@WR304 are you on the latest firmware version?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Mmm, that's disappointing to see...

I agree with your assessment that the gears may be a tad stripped and slipping. Haven't seen that problem myself with AXS XX1 nor AXS Red. I think you have sufficient cause for a warranty claim. Perhaps you could get an AXS GX derailleur to spell you.

To answer the other poster, I've been through a couple of upgrades after myself with friends and there's always a little break-in period with AXS where it's not quite right, but then one gets the derailleur fine adjustments and B-screw right and then it's perfect. Still quite worth the plunge, definitely.



WR304 said:


> I've had no issues at all with my SRAM XX1 AXS shifting, until last Saturday.
> 
> On the last hill of the day I shifted into the 34x51 bottom gear and then was stuck in bottom gear unable to shift back onto a smaller rear sprocket. The rear derailleur just made a chirping noise rather than the "vvvtt, vvvvtt, vvvtt" noise it usually makes with each rear shift. It wouldn't move onto a smaller sprocket again despite lots of pressing of the shifter. At least I was almost home so rode up the hill slowly.
> 
> ...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

madskatingcow said:


> @WR304 are you on the latest firmware version?





chomxxo said:


> Mmm, that's disappointing to see...
> 
> I agree with your assessment that the gears may be a tad stripped and slipping. Haven't seen that problem myself with AXS XX1 nor AXS Red. I think you have sufficient cause for a warranty claim. Perhaps you could get an AXS GX derailleur to spell you.
> 
> To answer the other poster, I've been through a couple of upgrades after myself with friends and there's always a little break-in period with AXS where it's not quite right, but then one gets the derailleur fine adjustments and B-screw right and then it's perfect. Still quite worth the plunge, definitely.


The front shifter firmware is 2.3.0
The rear derailleur firmware is 2.8.1

I took the rear derailleur to the bike shop today. The issue was repeatable when not fitted to a bike just by holding the rear derailleur apart by hand. It couldn't do an upshift (towards a smaller rear sprocket) under any hand pressure at all, just chirping like in the video instead of shifting. It's being sent back to SRAM under warranty for a replacement.

That's actually a bit of a shame because I would have liked to open it up to see what has gone wrong inside. 










This picture shows my faulty XX1 AXS rear derailleur. This picture was after I had cleaned it up and the parallelogram pivots were soaking in penetrating oil.

The motor is the unit in the middle of the rear derailleur. The motor arm is at the bottom of the motor and is what moves the derailleur under load. I think it's something mechanical inside this motor that has gone. All the pivots seem tight with no play and there was no external damage at all that I could see anywhere.

I've read of other AXS MTB rear derailleurs failing by being completely dead and unresponsive, which is possibly an electrical problem, but this derailleur seems to be fine electrically. It can still shift with no load on, pair up to the SRAM AXS phone app etc so that doesn't seem to be the problem.

This video of the internals of a SRAM Etap road derailleur motor shows the small gear teeth inside the motor. It's these moving that give it that "vvvtt" noise with each shift. For my faulty SRAM XX1 AXS rear derailleur I think that there's some issue with these gear teeth that is stopping it shifting properly.

THIS VIDEO ISN'T MY REAR DERAILLEUR


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

As an update on this the faulty SRAM XX1 AXS derailleur was sent back under warranty and the replacement new one arrived today. I was expecting it to be months before receiving a replacement but it only took a couple of weeks! 

One thing to note with any SRAM AXS warranty returns is that you should only send the faulty derailleur back by itself. Remove the rechargeable AXS battery and hang onto it because that isn’t included with a replacement.


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## K4izen (Feb 2, 2021)

Loam Wolfs Review of the GX AXS just dropped


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

SRAM have an online website where you can upload your rides to look at the gear shifting stats:

SRAM | AXS

The user login for the SRAM website is the same as your SRAM AXS smartphone app login that is used for bluetooth firmware updates and showing the micro adjust position of the rear derailleur.

What the website shows, that the smartphone app doesn't, is individual component statistics. This looks to be stored within the rear derailleur and is transmitted to the smartphone app when the components are paired via bluetooth. When displayed on the website this includes a full count of every shift that the rear derailleur has ever done! It's clearly not reliant on any external data (such as using a Garmin to ride and upload rides).










This picture shows the statistics for my broken SRAM XX1 AXS rear derailleur in the SRAM AXS website. This is the derailleur that broke and was sent back under warranty.

According to the website this rear derailleur did 146,420 rear shifts during its life. If you look up a few posts at my table in Post #932 the total rear shifts I did outdoor riding with a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt connected and recording the ride was 135,769 leaving a difference of 10,651 rear shifts unaccounted for. That needs investigating.

In February I did 11 hours initial position setup with my 2021 Specialized Epic sat on the turbo trainer in the garage. Those turbo trainer rides were recorded into the Fulgaz cycling app on an iPad so had no gear shifts recorded but were virtual rides so I would have been using the gears and shifting as I would outdoors. At a shift every 15 seconds that would explain where 2,640 of the unrecorded rear shifts have come from.

That still leaves 8,011 unrecorded rear shifts. I'd guess a big chunk of that could possibly be bike setup related - riding the bike round the block without being fully kitted up and recording the ride and also checking gears or equipment at home - shifting up and down through the gears with the bike stationary. That could add up quite a bit over the course of a year.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Following on from the previous actuation count post I was trying to work out why the SRAM rear derailleur actuation count was so different to the WKO5 reports.

There are a few different programs and websites that can look at the number of shifts within a .fit file

I loaded the same ride .fit file into the SRAM AXS Website, Di2stats, and WKO5 to see if they were reporting the same number for shifts.

SRAM | AXS

di2stats.com: analyze your shimano di2 shift data

Di2stats and WKO5 both had a total of 1,174 rear shifts but the SRAM AXS website for the same .fit file had a total of 1,286 rear shifts which is 112 more!










I think this difference could be down to what is counted as a shift. For the rear derailleur a single actuation is likely going to be classed as being the move from one sprocket to the adjacent sprocket.

For WKO5 this isn't actually the case. A Garmin or Wahoo bike computer records its .fit file at 1 second intervals so the gear position is being recorded once per second. If the gear sprocket changes from one second to the next that is counted as one gear shift in the gear report. So long as the sequential shifting is done one clear shift button press at a time this will pick up each individual shift matching the number of actuations counted by the rear derailleur.

With SRAM AXS there is the option to enable multishifts however, which I do have enabled. This is where holding down the shift button will keep shifting across multiple sprockets and this option is quick, being able to move the chain across multiple sprockets within 1 second.










This WKO5 graph is a very small extract of a ride showing a multishift. The purple line shows the rear sprocket being used and the first few shifts between sprockets are nicely spaced out so each shift will be recorded at 1 second intervals. I then did a multishift, shifting rapidly from the 21 tooth sprocket through the 24 tooth sprocket straight to the 28 tooth sprocket.

This multishift would count as 2 actuations for the rear derailleur actuation count (21 to 24 tooth is 1 actuation then 24 to 28 tooth is 1 actuation) but for WKO5 this only counts as 1 gear shift (21 to 28 tooth). If you take my missing 8,011 actuations and divide it by the 191 outdoor rides I did that would only require me to do roughly 42 of these multishifts each ride over the year to make up the difference. I think that explains why the overall totals are so different between the derailleur actuation count and my summary as I was really struggling to see how I could have done an additional 8,011 rear shifts just riding around the block.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here's a picture of the actuation count for the brand new rear derailleur that I got under warranty. This has only been tested to make sure it works (I put my backup AXS parts on the bike after the rear derailleur broke so this is a spare at the moment).

This is really handy to have as it shows that a brand new AXS rear derailleur should have an actuation count of around 0 to begin with. I'd wondered if perhaps they underwent extended testing at the factory so would start with an actuation count much greater than 0 but it doesn't look like that's the case.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> View attachment 1363541
> 
> 
> https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...-I-get-from-a-fresh-set-of-shifter-batteries-
> ...


The SRAM AXS shifter CR2032 battery life is one of those things I keep meaning to write an update about but don't always get round to. I've been changing the shifter batteries more frequently, not running them down to flat, which is why it's taken over a year to do a follow up post.

I had a completely flat battery in the SRAM AXS shifter today. Of course it happened mid December on a Sunday afternoon +3c ride in freezing fog up in the Cotswold hills close to getting dark. Just about the worst time possible as everything was soaking wet, filthy and I had to stop and open up the battery compartments of the shifter and speed sensor to swap batteries.

As with before there was no advance warning on my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt V2 bike computer that the CR2032 battery of the shifter was running low and needed replacing. The status light is under the shifter so invisible unless the bike is upside down.

The last time I had a completely flat CR2032 shifter battery it had done 4 months*, 200 hours riding, roughly 48,000 rear shifts*.

This time the flat CR2032 shifter battery had done close to 5 months,* 242 hours riding, 57,027 rear shifts* so a little more than the other time.

I'm going to make a point of changing the shifter battery regularly at 3 month intervals from now on I think, rather than leaving it to whenever I remember.


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## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Hey, first world problem here. Been running GX AXS since it came out. Love it and have been very happy. Wife bought me XO1 AXS kit for Xmas (happy accident). Anyone who would put the X01 on the bike and sell the GX or just send it back and use the 800 for something else. It’s on a 2021 stumpy Evo S5.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I had a strange AXS issue today. It’s worth mentioning in some detail here as it’s the very first time I’ve had this.

Timeline for the last few days:

Tuesday: took bike down to bike shop in car, put fresh fully charged AXS battery in the XX1 AXS rear derailleur after getting back home, green lights all round and gears working

Wednesday: 3 hour ride no gear issues, bike put away cleaned and dry in garage post ride

Thursday (today): I set off from home and the AXS electronic gears are dead from the very beginning of the ride. I got about 20 metres down the road and over the first cattlegrid before realising I was unable to change gear and had to u-turn and go home to troubleshoot why the bike wasn’t working.

My initial thought was that the CR2032 battery in the shifter might be flat but that wasn’t the case. It had a green light on the shifter.

My next thought was that it might be a pairing issue so I tried manually pressing the AXS button on the rear derailleur to see if it would shift between sprockets. Pressing the rear derailleur AXS button did nothing and there was no response or lights from the rear derailleur.

I then unclipped the rechargeable battery from the rear derailleur and clipped the same battery back into place. There was a green light on the rear derailleur, showing the battery still had charge, and the gears worked normally straight away! As I was short of time I was straight out of the door and the AXS gears worked properly throughout a 3 hour ride with no more issues.

Looking at it a bit more closely this evening it’s possibly a problem with the contacts on the battery and the two metal prongs on the rear derailleur. I have two batteries that I rotate and I’ve had these batteries since mid 2020. They get swapped out roughly every 3 weeks I’d guess.

I’ve sprayed some Caig Deoxit D5 electrical contact cleaner on the contacts of the battery and pins of the rear derailleur, cleaned some dried mud out of the top clip of the battery and will keep an eye on it.


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## AdmChr (Oct 10, 2009)

WR304 said:


> I had a strange AXS issue today. It’s worth mentioning in some detail here as it’s the very first time I’ve had this.
> 
> Timeline for the last few days:
> 
> ...


What firmware do you have installed on your derailleur? I remeber SRAM sending out a memo that 2.17.0 was buggy causing it to not to wake up from sleep mode occasionally and become nonresponsive, pulling the battery and reseat it, then everything would be fine. If you haven;t already, I'd install the latest 2.19.5 FW and see if that helps. If not, maybe that bug still exists for some people in the latest FW as well.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

AdmChr said:


> What firmware do you have installed on your derailleur? I remeber SRAM sending out a memo that 2.17.0 was buggy causing it to not to wake up from sleep mode occasionally and become nonresponsive, pulling the battery and reseat it, then everything would be fine. If you haven;t already, I'd install the latest 2.19.5 FW and see if that helps. If not, maybe that bug still exists for some people in the latest FW as well.


The SRAM AXS firmware updates are so infrequent that I hadn't even checked for new ones in ages! Thanks for mentioning it! 

The rear derailleur was on firmware 2.8.1 up to now. I've just updated it to firmware 2.19.5 via the AXS app this evening.

After cleaning the battery contacts yesterday the gears were ok riding today (still on the previous 2.8.1 firmware for this ride). Hopefully it will keep working properly.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

WR304 said:


> The SRAM AXS shifter CR2032 battery life is one of those things I keep meaning to write an update about but don't always get round to. I've been changing the shifter batteries more frequently, not running them down to flat, which is why it's taken over a year to do a follow up post.
> 
> I had a completely flat battery in the SRAM AXS shifter today. Of course it happened mid December on a Sunday afternoon +3c ride in freezing fog up in the Cotswold hills close to getting dark. Just about the worst time possible as everything was soaking wet, filthy and I had to stop and open up the battery compartments of the shifter and speed sensor to swap batteries.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. Where do you find the accumulated numbers for your AXS-products?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Trond said:


> Thanks for the update. Where do you find the accumulated numbers for your AXS-products?


Have a look at Post #939 of this thread a page back.

You first have to connect the SRAM AXS mobile app to the drivetrain components by bluetooth, whilst logged in with your SRAM user account. This uploads the details to SRAM.

You then login to the SRAM AXS website (link below) with the same SRAM user account via a web browser.






SRAM | AXS







axs.sram.com





In the device details on the web page it gives the details for each component including the number of actuations.

For the detailed splits of ride time and shifting I made myself a report in WKO 5 that shows the gear shift totals and filter it between two dates for rides in that time period.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Have a look at Post #939 of this thread a page back.
> 
> You first have to connect the SRAM AXS mobile app to the drivetrain components by bluetooth, whilst logged in with your SRAM user account. This uploads the details to SRAM.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I looked in there yesterday, and couldn’t find it  

My XO rear derailleur shows shifts, but my GX reports nothing. That’s interesting.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Trond said:


> Thanks. I looked in there yesterday, and couldn’t find it
> 
> My XO rear derailleur shows shifts, but my GX reports nothing. That’s interesting.


Does the GX AXS rear derailleur use the same firmware version number as the XO1 AXS rear derailleur? I haven’t got a SRAM GX AXS derailleur here to check but I thought they were the same internally?

After updating the firmware to the latest 2.19.5 version on my XX1 AXS rear derailleur yesterday I set off riding today and managed a few hundred metres, before promptly u-turning and heading back home again…

The electronic gears were shifting but then the chain was skipping and rattling on the rear sprockets. The indexing was way off on the gears.

Having updated the firmware the day before I had a good idea of what had most likely happened. As soon as I got home I connected the SRAM AXS mobile app to see what the micro adjust number was. There are 31 small adjustment steps available to fine tune the indexing and the factory default middle setting before any fine tuning is 15/31.

Sure enough the micro adjust setting of my rear derailleur was 15/31. Updating to the latest firmware had also meant the micro adjust indexing had been reset to the factory default setting, which explained why the gears weren’t shifting properly as they were no longer indexed. I changed it back to 18/31, the correct setting for this rear derailleur, and the gears were back working again.

Normally it’s never necessary to touch the micro adjust settings after first setup whilst using the same frame and rear wheel. With this derailleur I had indexed it way back last summer, and used those micro adjust settings without issue ever since.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

SRAM AXS Firmware related. Apparently it’s possible to roll back an AXS firmware update if needed using these steps:

*“Disconnect the battery, and hold the axs button while installing the battery. Now go back to the axs app and it will say to update the firmware or something. I just did this to move from 2.17 to 2.7.3”*









Rollback option for broken firmware (like the latest one)


The application should allow you to rollback the firmware to a previous version. I just installed a version that was confirmed to have an issue with components waking up, and I cannot rollback to a previous version.



sram.uservoice.com





It’s not something I’ve needed to do yet but might be useful.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Does the GX AXS rear derailleur use the same firmware version number as the XO1 AXS rear derailleur? I haven’t got a SRAM GX AXS derailleur here to check but I thought they were the same internally?
> 
> After updating the firmware to the latest 2.19.5 version on my XX1 AXS rear derailleur yesterday I set off riding today and managed a few hundred metres, before promptly u-turning and heading back home again…
> 
> ...


Hi,

Yes, they are both on the same firmware #


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm beeing tired of Shimano deraillers and their crapy clutch,how is the clutch holding on on AXS GX? Have it loose tension?tanks guys


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## oldfartwannabembker (Jul 31, 2021)

Trond said:


> My XO rear derailleur shows shifts, but my GX reports nothing.


Did you findout why your axs GX was not showing an actuation count and did you manage to get it to show it ?

The reason I am asking is because my new out the box 2021 axs xx1 is also not showing an actuation count.

My 2020 axs xx1 that was on my previous bike did show an actuation count total.

UPDATE -
I have just now realised that battery voltage data is also missing from both my axs xx1 mech its axs xx1 controller...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

oldfartwannabembker said:


> Did you findout why your axs GX was not showing an actuation count and did you manage to get it to show it ?
> 
> The reason I am asking is because my new out the box 2021 axs xx1 is also not showing an actuation count.
> 
> ...


You've got further than me! My SRAM AXS app is refusing to update information to the web page. The rear derailleur is stuck showing firmware 2.8.1 and a Last Updated date of July 2021 on the web site, even though it was updated to 2.19.5 months ago and has been connected via Bluetooth to the app several times since then too.

There is some kind of sync working as I was able to change the bike profile picture on the web site, which then eventually updated the picture on the AXS app, but not the derailleur information.


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## oldfartwannabembker (Jul 31, 2021)

WR304 said:


> You've got further than me! My SRAM AXS app is refusing to update information to the web page. The rear derailleur is stuck showing firmware 2.8.1 and a Last Updated date of July 2021 on the web site, even though it was updated to 2.19.5 months ago and has been connected via Bluetooth to the app several times since then too.
> 
> There is some kind of sync working as I was able to change the bike profile picture on the web site, which then eventually updated the picture on the AXS app, but not the derailleur information.


Thats another strange issue there mate. I'm just wondering whats going on with mine and if its FW issue with my axs or my new axs has a fault, missing data in it. Also interesting aswell as abit worrying that the paddle shifter is also missing the battery V information.

Lastnight I even deleted the axs app and downloaded it again and logged back in and no chance. 
Today I text a mate to ask him if his kit is showing the actuation count and bat V information and he said it is. He bought his axs xx1 groupset in January 2020.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

oldfartwannabembker said:


> Thats another strange issue there mate. I'm just wondering whats going on with mine and if its FW issue with my axs or my new axs has a fault, missing data in it. Also interesting aswell as abit worrying that the paddle shifter is also missing the battery V information.
> 
> Lastnight I even deleted the axs app and downloaded it again and logged back in and no chance.
> Today I text a mate to ask him if his kit is showing the actuation count and bat V information and he said it is. He bought his axs xx1 groupset in January 2020.


I tried removing all the bikes and devices from the SRAM AXS app, which seemed to work as they disappeared from the app and website, but when I paired up the rear derailleur and shifter the website went straight back to the July 2021 date and still saying firmware 2.8.1 (it’s on the newest firmware) so it hadn’t updated.

If your gears are working ok on the bike I don’t think it’s going to be a fault with the gears themselves. It’s either the SRAM AXS website or the SRAM AXS app.


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## oldfartwannabembker (Jul 31, 2021)

WR304 said:


> It’s either the SRAM AXS website or the SRAM AXS app.


That's what I would of thought but for the fact my 2020 axs xx1 was also uploaded onto both the axs sram app and my axs.sram.com web account so I could update it to 2.19.5 FW before I sold the bike last month.


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## oldfartwannabembker (Jul 31, 2021)

Quick update.
This is the response a friend got from sram when he messaged them and asked them why the Actuation count and Battery Voltages information was missing on some axs kits.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

oldfartwannabembker said:


> Quick update.
> This is the response a friend got from sram when he messaged them and asked them why the Actuation count and Battery Voltages information was missing on some axs kits.
> View attachment 1983508


Thanks for posting that. It explains why the actuation count doesn't work! 

The SRAM AXS battery life is something I've been increasingly noticing. I have two of the rechargeable SRAM AXS rear derailleur batteries, both of which have been in use since 16 May 2020. I rotate them so have one battery in use and a fully charged spare to hand in case it needs a swap in a hurry. Between them they've done 1081 hours riding and it's difficult to say exactly but I'd guess each battery has been recharged maybe 50 times.











This table was from June 2020 and shows how long a fully charged rear derailleur battery was lasting when brand new.

Two years later there's significant rechargeable battery degradation. I'm getting maybe 14 hours out of the same battery before the red light comes on on the rear derailleur now compared to the 26.65 hours of a new battery. That's 12.65 hours less per charge, a 48% decrease in battery life.

On the plus side at least they're replaceable. It's not like a mobile phone with a sealed internal battery fortunately.

With the CR2032 battery in the AXS paddle shifter they never last anywhere near two years. I had a low shifter battery warning on Wednesday, having not followed my own advice of making a point to change the battery every 3 months. 4 months per CR2032 battery is consistently about the limit for me it seems.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Side note on AXS batteries: there is an aftermarket option, for $20 (vs 50+ OEM) on Amazon, and you can get 2 plus a extra charger for about the same price as just one OEM battery. Just bought for backup, because having backups with two AXS bikes gets pricey. 

No clue if they’re as good as OEM, but the reviews if real look good.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

MattMay said:


> Side note on AXS batteries: there is an aftermarket option, for $20 (vs 50+ OEM) on Amazon, and you can get 2 plus a extra charger for about the same price as just one OEM battery. Just bought for backup, because having backups with two AXS bikes gets pricey.
> 
> No clue if they’re as good as OEM, but the reviews if real look good.


Let us know if they burst into flames, lol


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Thanks for posting that. It explains why the actuation count doesn't work!
> 
> The SRAM AXS battery life is something I've been increasingly noticing. I have two of the rechargeable SRAM AXS rear derailleur batteries, both of which have been in use since 16 May 2020. I rotate them so have one battery in use and a fully charged spare to hand in case it needs a swap in a hurry. Between them they've done 1081 hours riding and it's difficult to say exactly but I'd guess each battery has been recharged maybe 50 times.
> 
> ...


As a continued update on the AXS battery life as at 1 September 2022, another 3.5 months on from that previous post the 2 year old AXS batteries are continuing to get worse. I’ve been having to swap them over and charge them more than once a week. 

The most recent usage was 4 rides totalling 12 hours moving time for the battery going from fully charged to a critical low battery warning appearing on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt head unit and the double red flash warning on the rear derailleur light.

On today’s ride I set off with the battery light showing green on the rear derailleur (I checked before setting off because the original intention was to do a longer ride than I actually did), only to have the derailleur go from green (at least 25% battery charge) all the way to double flash warning within just 3 hours of riding. I wasn’t that far from the end of the ride by then fortunately so got back before it died.

At this point I think I’m going to have to retire the old AXS batteries and start using some new AXS batteries instead. The increased risk of a flat battery mid ride using these old batteries is getting too high to discount any longer.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

WR304 said:


> As a continued update on the AXS battery life as at 1 September 2022, another 3.5 months on from that previous post the 2 year old AXS batteries are continuing to get worse. I’ve been having to swap them over and charge them more than once a week.
> 
> The most recent usage was 4 rides totalling 12 hours moving time for the battery going from fully charged to a critical low battery warning appearing on the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt head unit and the double red flash warning on the rear derailleur light.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I have 4 batteries myself, and although I haven’t been as thorough as you I have a growing feeling that the two oldest ones are not in top shape. Don’t last as long, and they also seem to drain fast when cold.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

This is a cool looking 3rd party shift paddle replacement for the current SRAM AXS mtb shifter.

The ad-biking SRAM AXS Quickshifter






Sram AXS QUICKSHIFT – AD Biking







www.ad-biking.com





Unlike the SRAM paddles this is a 2 piece split shifter paddle so that the buttons work either way. It appears to give the same shift functionality as a Shimano trigger shifter with AXS! I’m seriously thinking about buying one to try.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

WR304 said:


> This is a cool looking 3rd party shift paddle replacement for the current SRAM AXS mtb shifter.
> 
> The ad-biking SRAM AXS Quickshifter
> 
> ...


I want one!


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