# Trek scratch8, Giant Reign X1 or Specialized enduro evo (All 2011 models)



## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

I've narrowed my choice down to these three bikes. Which one should I get?

I would like people’s suggestions to how the bikes compare, i.e. different suspension styles, pedal/climb ability, ability to take big hits/downhill. 
I have been riding a 2007 sx trail for 3 years so comparisons to this bike would also be helpful.
Any views, information or opinions are welcome, no matter how biased. Also suggestions for other bikes are welcome.
I have a similar post in the AM forum but thought perhaps the people here would be better to tell me how they think these bikes would handle things when it gets bigger, rougher and faster.

I have a budget of £4000, maybe stretch to £45000 if the perfect bike is found.

Thanks for your help, I definitely need it.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Out of those, I've only ridden the new Enduro (not the Evo model). Whilst it's surely a capable bike, it still feels..."all-mountainy"...if that's a word. It's quite long and stretched out (sizing will come into play here of course), which you may or may not like. Coming off an SX Trail...I should imagine you'd notice it. Don't get me wrong, the bike felt great...but it's not a big hit bike, and not really a playbike either.

Cam McCaul was going to to take his Scratch to Rampage...so that's your answer on big hit ability...lol...

Probably, the Reign X sits somewhere between those other 2 bikes.

Not very helpful, but my 2 cents...nice list of bikes for sure...


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

If your budget stretches to 45000, you should be able to afford all of them!

I havent ridden them, but for a rule of thumb, the scratch and reign x will hover around the DH/FR end of the spectrum, and the Evo more around the all mountain (but with abit more gnar than regular all mountain)


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

@ Nick, lol indeed if I £45000 I would have no problem. I think I added one too many 0s.
And thanks, that's the kind of categorisation I was looking for.

Iceman, your info is also very useful.

I have also considered maybe getting an enduro evo as a do-it-all bike, them buying a bigger bike, next year. Then put the chunky bits from the evo onto the bigger bike and rebuild the evo as lighter enduro. 
Do you think there is enough difference between the enduro and scratch to warrant having both? Or do you think I would end up favouring and mostly using one?

Hmm, there's far too much choice of good bikes!


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

rob112 said:


> @ Nick, lol indeed if I £45000 I would have no problem. I think I added one too many 0s.
> And thanks, that's the kind of categorisation I was looking for.
> 
> Iceman, your info is also very useful.
> ...


There might be enough difference to warrant both, having not ridden a Scratch I can't offer any real insight. However, if you are down to 1 bike only (like me), then you just have to prioritize: if you want longer days in the saddle, with some ability to hit bigger stuff on the way, then go Enduro. If you want to make sure you can hit anything within your abilities (or even stretch the envelop from time to time), while apart from that it just has to pedal around every now and then when your mates force you out trail riding, then go with the Scratch. (in my case, I went with something equivalent to the Scratch...a bit more painful to haul around on longer rides, but up for any kind of abuse you can throw at it...just because that's how I ride most of the time...).

Be careful with moving parts around...the shock on the Evo may or may not turn out to be the same length as your next bike (probably won't be, if your next bike is a more heavy duty bike), I think the fork is a special edition on the Evo as well....wheel spacing (your next bike may well be a 150mm rear end...)...etc and so forth...


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Iceman pretty much nailed it.

I have test ridden a Scratch 9, and a 2010 S-Works Enduro.
I own a 2010 Reign X.

The Enduro and RX feel very similar - more trail/AM oriented, but that has alot to do with their set-up. On my RX I've run heavier wheels and tires, but never a full blown DH set-up.
The Scratch 9 was hard to classify - it felt more park/DH ready, but still pedaled fantastic, and could be a great trail bike, too.
I also test rode a 2011 Specialized SX Trail II - awesome bike, but it REALLY felt like a park/DH bike - I don't think it'd do the trail bike thing very well (ie: a 20-30 mile XC/Trail ride.)

I love my RX, but if I were buying right now, with no other bike, I'd be tempted to go with the Scratch.


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

I like Nick's description of the Scratch and the Reign X being more gravity oriented. With that said I just got to throw my leg over the Reign X and the Enduro this weekend. As much as I love my Giant Faith, the Enduro wins this bout.

I didn't get to try them on the trail but just from playing around in the parking lot the Enduro felt like it had a stiffer rear end with a more nimble feel. The Reign X was pretty soft in the rear which was a lot harder to pop but gobbled up the impacts I could find.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

rob112 said:


> Do you think there is enough difference between the enduro and scratch to warrant having both?


I think so, but it depends on where and how you ride. To me the Enduro is like an XC bike. These light "6 inch" bikes are so good as do-it-all bikes, 
I cannot see myself riding anything less. Mind you, I don't race, and love rough, agressive trails.

My RX is 29.5 pounds and I ride it for - XC - Trail - and everything but full-on gnarly DH.
The Scratch 9 was 34 pounds but really felt Park/DH ready - but with air shocks, could be a trail burner, too.


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks for all the comments; all really useful, especially as you guys have experience with riding the bikes.
Iceman, where would you fit your Morewood zuza in with these three?
I'm quite tempted by the evo, especially as it appears good value as well. If I were to go for the scratch I may find myself temped to go for the 9, which is close to £4500. That would blow any option to upgrade parts ect. and would mean a whole lot of saving again before getting another bike for the garage. Although I still need to make sure the scratch9 isn’t all the bike I need in one package.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

rob112 said:


> Thanks for all the comments; all really useful, especially as you guys have experience with riding the bikes.
> Iceman, where would you fit your Morewood zuza in with these three?
> I'm quite tempted by the evo, especially as it appears good value as well. If I were to go for the scratch I may find myself temped to go for the 9, which is close to £4500. That would blow any option to upgrade parts ect. and would mean a whole lot of saving again before getting another bike for the garage. Although I still need to make sure the scratch9 isn't all the bike I need in one package.


Closest to the Scratch, for sure. Especially the way I have set it up (Boxxer, Saint, Codes, etc). But it is probably less comfortable than the Scratch when it comes to pedalling, given it's very short TT. Also, with heavy duty wheels it feels like a bit of a pig on the climbs...from all accounts, a well-built Scratch should still climb reasonably well.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I personally love the feel of the Reign X over the other bikes. The Enduro to me seems a little bit more uphill-oriented than your other choices, but is still a fairly capable bike. If I were coming from an SX trail to an Enduro, I'd probably feel a little like I was riding a 'diet' version of the SX, not something equal to it. Enduros are rugged for sure, I just wouldn't want to take an Enduro off anything really big or pound a really rough trail with it as much as the other bikes. I'd personally take the Reign X. Great frame, very pedal-able (more than the SX for sure) and like was mentioned earlier, it eats up anything thrown in its path. I've seen them built up as sub-30 lb aggressive all mountain rigs that climb extremely well (thank that sweet maestro floating pivot suspension for that), and I've seen them fitted with dual crowns and raced on local DH courses. That versatility alone makes me lean toward it over the other choices. With your budget, you might be able to even get the RX, and the parts to swap out for bigger days vs more trail riding days. And Giant has a pretty nice lifetime frame warranty. Not sure if the other companies do, but they might.


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd stay away from the Scratch. It's a sweet bike, but there seem to be a couple problems with it.

First, it's in kind of a weird place, build wise. It's 170 rear, and very few bikes come with that amount of rear travel. There's probably a pretty good reason for that. They spec it with a Fox 36 at 160; even though Cam McCaul did a big promo on the Scratch with the new 36 at 180 I'm pretty sure running a 180 fork up front will void the warranty. It's big for AM riding and small for a dedicated gravity bike.

Secondly, Trek has been having a lot of problems with frames failing. Don't know why, but I bet you could find a few threads about Trek frames failing. That being said, Trek is pretty good about warranting a broken frame.

I have a 2007 Trek Session 77 as my gravity bike and a 2010 Remedy 8 as my every-day ripper. I love them both. I just don't think a Trek will be on my list in the future for reasons stated above.

That's just my two coppers. Cheers!


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

sambs827 said:


> It's 170 rear, and very few bikes come with that amount of rear travel. There's probably a pretty good reason for that


I don't know:
Giant Reign X 170mm
Pivot Firebird 167mm
Rocky Mountain Slayer 165mm
Heck, the 2011 Scott Genius LT is 185mm

150-170mm rear travel frames are where the design action is, a light "do-it-all" bike.
Everything I test rode was a great bike, just splitting hairs over personal preference


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## quickneonrt (Nov 11, 2004)

Another vote for the Giant Reign X. I have an 09 with a Lyrik solo air DH and DHX5 air on it and love it.


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks for all your replies.
It’s definatley between the reign x and enduro evo. I’m liking the 2011 reign x0 apart from the air shock and the air 160mm fork, if only it came with a DHX RC4 and a van 180 RC2 fork then it may well be perfect.


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## quickneonrt (Nov 11, 2004)

don't knock air forks the Fox Floats and the Rock Shox Lyrik solo air are awsome forks. I was an air hater also till I started using them.
the 160mm is a little too short a 170mm is better suited/matched to the Reign X. I bought my frame only and built it the way I wanted. Now if RS would only come out with the Vivid Air in a high tune for it.

FSR can't compare to Maestro. I have owend many fsr bikes until 2010 I switched to a 2010 Glory and a 2009 Reign X.
FSR was the sheeet before pedal platforn rear shocks, now with the advancement in rear shocks and suspension designs, fsr is just mediocre


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

Now I've almost made up my mind, either reign X1 or enduro evo. 
Those points on air sus are interesting, I think it's just a silly stereotype I have that air shocks/forks are for xc bikes.
Do you think the X0 would be as good downhill and taking drops/jumps as a coil sprung RX, i.e. the X1?


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## quickneonrt (Nov 11, 2004)

rob112 said:


> Now I've almost made up my mind, either reign X1 or enduro evo.
> Those points on air sus are interesting, I think it's just a silly stereotype I have that air shocks/forks are for xc bikes.
> Do you think the X0 would be as good downhill and taking drops/jumps as a coil sprung RX, i.e. the X1?


I ride my Reign X with air fork and air shock at Diablo. It handles everthing there with ease. I can ride everything I rode on my Glory there without issue.
I had an 07 Enduro SXT that I loved kept it when I put together my Demo and Glory but when i built up the Reign X I imediately sold the SXT. The Reign just does everything better, climbing, decending, rock gardens. I will admit I would prefer a coil rear on it but I don't want to add weight. i may have the DHX Pushed over the winter or see if RS will do the Vivid air in the high tune to fit my Reign X.
I enjoy riding my Reign X at Diablo so much I sold my Glory so I can get money together for a different full on DH bike.


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

Interesting!
Thanks. Giant Reign x I think it is then. Now I just need to decide whether to get the X0 or the X1, which is £1000 cheaper and I think looks better. I don't think I can get a frame only in UK so can't really build a custom one. Will probably get the X1 and update things over the year I think. Then I can decide if i'm going to make it more hardcore and get a lighter trail bike, or make it lighter and get a full on hardcore DH/FR bike.


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## 1soulrider (Jan 21, 2004)

I just rode a '11 enduro evo and a '11 reign x at ODD, found the reign to feel more capable in the rough than the evo.
The evo pedaled great and the geometry felt really nice, but the rear suspension got overwhelmed when pressed hard.
The reign inspired more confidence when ridden hard in tech terrain, the rear suspension felt more up to the task of going fast through the chop than the evo.


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

From what people have said I think the reign x provides more options. The Enduro evo will never be able to be as hardcore as the reign x can be and the scratch will never pedal as well or be as good a trail bike as the reign x can be. Depending on how you build it the reign x appears to be best do-it-all bike of the three bikes I have been considering.


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

1soulrider,
You mention that the evo pedals great, is that great compared to the reign x or did the reign x pedal great to?
Also, what version of the reign x did you try, was it coil or air?


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## quickneonrt (Nov 11, 2004)

1soulrider said:


> *but the rear suspension got overwhelmed when pressed hard.
> The reign inspired more confidence when ridden hard in tech terrain, the rear suspension felt more up to the task of going fast through the chop than the evo*


*The absolute truth!* The ReignX handles the chop so much better. I find far less pedal strikes peddaling my ReignX through gnarly rockgardens then I did with any of my fsr bikes, even though i have longer cranks on the X. 170mm compared to 165mm on all my fsr bikes
The ReignX pedals great and feels like it has more travel then it does

I owned 03 Bighit, 04 Demo9, 07 SX-Trail, 08 Demo8 and 09 Demo7 so i was an fsr lover until I bought the 2010 Glory then I built the ReignX. Now i don't think I will ever go back to specialized


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## quickneonrt (Nov 11, 2004)

rob112 said:


> From what people have said I think the reign x provides more options. The Enduro evo will never be able to be as hardcore as the reign x can be and the scratch will never pedal as well or be as good a trail bike as the reign x can be. Depending on how you build it the reign x appears to be best do-it-all bike of the three bikes I have been considering.


You can build the ReignX light for am/fr use or build it heavy duty for fr/dh use.
There are several guys that have gone as far as put boxxers on the RX and dh wheels for dh the switch to a single crown and lighter wheels for am. Also can use a front mech wih an E-13 DRS or a Gamut dual ring guide for more versitility


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

rob112 said:


> From what people have said I think the reign x provides more options. The Enduro evo will never be able to be as hardcore as the reign x can be and the scratch will never pedal as well or be as good a trail bike as the reign x can be. Depending on how you build it the reign x appears to be best do-it-all bike of the three bikes I have been considering.


The Reign X has a head angle of 67 degrees, and a seat tube angle of 72.5 degrees.
The Scratch has a head angle of 66 degrees, and a seat tube angle of *75* degrees. (that is a huge difference)

That SA number is one of the things I like about the Scratch. When I first test rode it, I thought, sure It'll be a great bike, but it'll "feel" heavy, and not pedal well. Well, I was wrong - if you can get past the weight, it really pedals like a XC bike. That seat angle keeps you over the pedals like a racer weenie, but as soon as you stand in the "attack position" the 66 degree HA turns the bike into a DH monster  
That said, the RX pedals great, too.

Like I said before, I LOVE my RX, but of all the bikes I've recently tried, the Scratch 9 was the only one I REALLY didn't want to give back 

Some more comments on the RX: I feel the geometry is really dialed with a 160mm fork, but I love a low bottom bracket. If you find you constantly hit the pedals, a 170mm fork would be perfect. 180mm on the RX I feel would be pushing it, unless it was a dedicated gravity rig.

Both are very versatile bikes. Tough decision :thumbsup:


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

deoreo,
With a similar build, weight etc. do you think the scratch pedals as well as you reign x?


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

rob112 said:


> With a similar build, weight etc. do you think the scratch pedals as well as you reign x?


I'd give the edge to the Scratch. They do, both, pedal extremely well, but that SA does make a noticeable difference.

And I currently have my RX set-up more "trail" ready with Roval Traverse EL wheels, and S-Works tires, set-up tubeless - it weighs in at 29.5 pounds.
Set-up like this it's my"XC" bike, I'll take it on 25 mile rides with steep climbs...no problem...


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

That is a very nice bike mate. Looking at that makes we want to put an advance order in for a 2011 RX0 now.
I think my main concern is if the scratch may be too much bike when i'm not hitting the jump/drop spots or downhill. However, I suppose I could buy a scratch 9, which will be all the bike I need for FR/DH and the buy lighter bits, 160mm air fork, air shock and lighter wheels to swap in when I know i'm going to be doing more xc/trail riding.
I think I'm over the enduro evo, but still a toss up between the scratch and reign x.
Come down to wether I buy a reign x0 and then later get bits to make it more hardcore for big days, or get a scratch 9 and then get bits to make it lighter for xc/trail days.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

rob112 said:


> Come down to wether I buy a reign x0 and then later get bits to make it more hardcore for big days, or get a scratch 9 and then get bits to make it lighter for xc/trail days.


Yep, either would be perfect for what you're looking for.
A few more things I recall about the Scratch - ABP works as advertised - drag the brakes thru a rock garden at speed = super smooth, no brake jack (not that this is really a problem on the RX, either, but if you're really agressive on the brakes in the chunder you can feel a hint of "packing-in" on the rear.) 
Also the 142x12 rear axle is very slick in use, not as "fiddly" as the 135x12

And to throw a monkey-wrench in this, have a real close look at the 2011 Rocky Mountain Slayer - on paper it looks good, too.
http://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_102+SLAYER_70.html?BIKE=947&CATID=1&SCATID=60&Y=2011


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

What put me off the scratch was someone on another thread saying it was like a 'heavy marshmallow' This made me go more towards the enduro and reign x, as everyone says these pedal well. However after your review/comparison of the reign x and scratch I think the marshmallow comment may be a bit misinformed. Especially as you ride a reign x, your comments on the scratch seem very objective.
I can see how the SA on the scratch would make pedalling more comfortable, thanks for pointing that out.
So just to clarify, do you think the scratch would out accelerate the reign on the flat? With same build, weight etc. I suppose I’m asking, if the suspension on the scratch is as efficient/rigid as the reign x? Or is it just the SA that makes it more comfortable to pedal?
Apologies for the 20 questions on this thread and thanks all for baring with me and being so thorough in your answers so far.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

'heavy marshmallow' - funny  
I don't have the info right in-front of me, but the frame weight with the same shock is nearly the same for the Scratch and RX.

I don't have enough quality time on a Scratch to make a definitive comment on its suspension performance. I felt it was as efficient/rigid as the RX, but this does spotlight the possible achilles heel - the bearings at the ABP pivot. I don't think it'll be a problem, but ABP is somewhat new.

A steep SA like the Scratch is definitely more efficient - no doubt - more comfortable, that's subjective. I love it. It was something I liked about the Enduro, as well, and I feel it is the way forward in geometry for this style of bike.

Like I said above, I fully expected to find the Scratch to be just another "cool" bike, but was in fact blown-away by it - very impressive. And to put that in perspective, I thought the Remedy 9.9 was "meh"  just another bike :thumbsup:


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## rob112 (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks for your help guys. Trek scratch 9 air it's going to be.
Decided on the 9 air because the coil 9 is 1x9 and I would like to have a 2x9 crank and cassette. Also, the 9 air in black and red is looking really nice!
I went for the scratch over the reign x because I think it will give me better options if I decide to build it up bigger and tougher in the future, e.g. big fork.
Again thanks for your advice and not just saying "ride them and then see what you like".
I will of course try to ride, or at least sit on one, before I buy, but I think the scratch 9 air is the bike for me.


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## castnblastut (Jun 8, 2008)

Bought a 10" RX1 about two weeks ago, switched the 160mm RC2 for 2011 180mm and put on a pair of folding 2.5 Minions. This was to replace my ASX as my "heavy bike." In short I rode Southern Utah rock gardens that I would consider FR/light DH all last weekend and put in a 4 hour XC/singletrack ride today. Only thing I changed between rides was a few clicks on the fork's preload.

Mine weighs in at 34lbs. It's just as capable as the the 41lb ASX on downhill and in a totally different league on ups. The RX seems to have a smaller sweet spot for staying over the center of the bike and keeping the wheels balanced, just a matter of getting used to the feel. Never got to ride the Remedy (although definately considered it), but I did ride the SX Trail and am glad I went with the RX.

Buying new bikes is fun:thumbsup:


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

rob112 said:


> Also, the 9 air in black and red is looking really nice!


Most important part of the decision! 

Was going to say, budget for a dropper seatpost, then saw the spec, and that it comes with one, stock - sweet!
You're gonna love it! :thumbsup:


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

nice, post it when you get it : )


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

rob112 said:


> Thanks for your help guys. Trek scratch 9 air it's going to be.
> Decided on the 9 air because the coil 9 is 1x9 and I would like to have a 2x9 crank and cassette. Also, the 9 air in black and red is looking really nice!
> I went for the scratch over the reign x because I think it will give me better options if I decide to build it up bigger and tougher in the future, e.g. big fork.
> Again thanks for your advice and not just saying "ride them and then see what you like".
> I will of course try to ride, or at least sit on one, before I buy, but I think the scratch 9 air is the bike for me.


Sounds rad. I know I like my session alot, hope that carries over.


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## preston_pwr (Sep 10, 2010)

*Just got a 2011 reign sx*

Hey

Read most of the posts here and there is alot of useful info. Have to agree with most of them. To me the scratch is a full on FR bike. The stock endro=AM and the evo and reign x are more gravity bikes that can be ridden on any trail type. I was just in the market for a new bike and I am a very gravity orientated rider. Ride lots of flowy downhill trails and fr trails nothing to hardcore just 6ft drops and 15ft gaps. Was looking at the 2011 reign x1 but did not like the air suspension. That is when I saw the Reign SX good geo for every thing, coil sprung and great parts for the price. The bike rips on nearly any thing pointed downhill. I just did some shuttle runs over the weekend and the only track i had a problem with was our national downhill track in NZ. It is in poor condition so it got away from me abit. May just have been my poor skills tho. But it is still a sick bike. It is around 35lbs but can still be riden uphill even with the single ring. So if you have the same riding style as me and after a fun bike i highly recommend it.

Happy trails


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