# Do do you use for protection? :-O



## linerider (Jan 20, 2004)

*What do you use for protection? :-O*

...while on rides alone.

My wife tends to go riding by herself a lot while I watch the kids at the trail head/parks and vise versa.
I always have a little worry that something may happen while she's out there on her own. Thought about strapping a pepper spray bottle to the frame or something like that.
When we are at MTB trails it's not as bad but when we are at trails by state/national parks it's a little worse because of all the freaks that just hang out around them.

Last week my wife found a very vulgar note on the trail talking about everything this guy is going to do to "her" and she kept going. Later I spotted some shirtless ******* hovering in and out of the trail woods - no bike.
So, you get what I'm saying here? I worry.

What do you use out there if anything?

Thx.
L.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I always take my cell phone and do my best to avoid creeps. But I live where there are regularly nekked runners on the trail and one park is known for lots of illegal activity including drug deals and casual male-male hook ups in the woods.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Mainiac, are you here in NY? Sounds like Van Cortlandt Park or Forest Park......

I have yet to hear any stories about women getting attacked during a bike ride; I *have* heard many many stories about women getting attacked by guys they know, especially exes. That's usually what happens.

One of our trails has a guy we've nicknamed "Sketchy," who lurks around w/o a bike or anything, dressed like he's just back from work. I've passed him and just said "Hi," as he's become a fixture of sorts.

When I ride where the characters are, I don't take any extra precautions except to be more vigilant. And I don't bring anything in particular on my normal rides- not even a phone. My advice would be to bring two extra tubes (preferably slime) and to keep riding- don't stop to read notes!!


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

i usually take my cell phone. and when i ride trails alone i try to ride trails where i feel safe. 

like Christine said, don't stop to read the notes. just keep riding. however, if it were me, i probably wouldn't ride that trail alone for a while. find someplace safer.

rt


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

CycleMainiac said:


> But I live where there are regularly nekked runners on the trail and one park is known for lots of illegal activity including drug deals and casual male-male hook ups in the woods.


 Where is that? East Side Providence river? When I lived in Providence (on the East side) I used to walk with my dog on a really small but nice trail network just behind my apt. on the river. Guys were constantly asking me (and I'm a guy) what time it was...I thought, "man, what the heck are people doing back here in the woods that they're so pressed for time?" It wasn't until some guys I worked with informed me that it was code for "let's get it on" that I started to realize exactly how many men (couples) would stand uncomfortably as I walked by...as if I had interrupted them. I really just thought it was a strange area until I finally learned that it was a hookup zone.

To bring this back on topic, my protection, and the protection for my 100lb then girlfriend, was our 110lb rot/lab mix. He's very aloof with people unless they approach me or my wife with a strange vibe, then he'll stand between the person and us. It really helped calm any worries I had about her being out on a walk when she had Atlas. I know he'd do his best to prevent anything bad from happening to a family member.


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## linerider (Jan 20, 2004)

*Not looking for trouble*

It's not like she found an envelope and opened it up etc. It was an open note tagged to a branch leaning into the trail.
your point is taken none the less.

I am still thinking of strapping MACE underneath the top tube. Any other ideas beside the phone which she carries?

L.



*rt* said:


> i usually take my cell phone. and when i ride trails alone i try to ride trails where i feel safe.
> 
> like Christine said, don't stop to read the notes. just keep riding. however, if it were me, i probably wouldn't ride that trail alone for a while. find someplace safer.
> 
> rt


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

the note thing creeps me out. Is the area patrolled at all, any authority that it could get reported to?

I don't have any advice. The trails here are pretty safe, lots of solo women hiking and riding. There is one are that we ride in that is a gay pick up zone.... haha, I don't have to worry about anything but it's pretty creepy to pass a guy in a three piece suit coming out of the bushes...

formica


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

If somebody left a note specifically for your wife, she needs to stay away from that place whe she's alone. Riding alone, she should always be on 'yellow alert' but in the case of a specific threat, all the bells and whistles should be going off.

Around here a serial rapist has been attacking single women, some in day light, at parks and jogging paths. I think the assaults are up around a dozen and range across the state over a couple hundred miles.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

linerider said:


> I am still thinking of strapping MACE underneath the top tube. Any other ideas beside the phone which she carries?


If somebody jumps her from behind a bush or something, the phone's only going to be useful for reporting the crime. It won't prevent it.

Get something that's at least 10% Oleoresin Capsicum - higher % is better. Buy at least two and practice spraying one at trees or something just to know how to use and get some idea of it's range (don't be down wind when you're trying it). It probably makes more sense for her to carry it on her person instead of the bike. If somebody knocks her off the bike, she won't be able to get it.

Might want to look at something like this. Bad thing about them is you have to be in contact with an assailant to use it. http://www.personalsafetyplus.com/category_Batons_Kubotans-407.html

Of course, many would suggest riding with Mr. Smith & Mr. Wesson. They even have titanium weight-weenie specials.


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## TwistedCrank (Aug 6, 2004)

My wife carries a small pepper spray quickdraw-style on her Camelbak. She also carries a cell phone and checks in on the long rides (usually a "Hi honey I'm on dirt and you're at work hah hah"). She's very cautious (overly so I think but I do support her comfort). She also doesn't stop for strangers - after all most runners/riders/hikers are pretty self-supporting. The greaseballs around here are pretty easy to spot on the trails.

The note thing is pretty freaky and I think my wife would consider not riding alone for a period of time as a result. I'd support that.


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## linerider (Jan 20, 2004)

Thanks for the info. I do not know much about Pepper spray so it comes in handy.

No, the note was not intended specifically at my wife or it did not appear that way - no specific mention to lead her to believe that.

As for S&W protection, that just too heavy for us weight weenies...just kidding. She'd carry a cannon if it was the only way. TwistedCranks advise about carrying pepper spray on her body instead of bike does sound good though.

We'll also stay away from that trail for a few weeks. It is a County Park so it is "technically" monitored but fat chance. This is a dirt road area not the pretty/easy to travel paved park road so they don't venture that way - or at least I have never seen them around. It's a shame because there are not that many trail choices to begin with.

Thanks again.
Linerider



mbmojo said:


> If somebody jumps her from behind a bush or something, the phone's only going to be useful for reporting the crime. It won't prevent it.
> 
> Get something that's at least 10% Oleoresin Capsicum - higher % is better. Buy at least two and practice spraying one at trees or something just to know how to use and get some idea of it's range (don't be down wind when you're trying it). It probably makes more sense for her to carry it on her person instead of the bike. If somebody knocks her off the bike, she won't be able to get it.
> 
> ...


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

nope, not the north east, Austin Texas. Where the slogan Keep Austin Weird is taken very seriously. There have been nekked runners on the greenbelt for years, they normally just startle riders but are harmless. the park with the illegal activity is actually better with the infusion of mtb'ers. Austin is very liberal in some ways and stupid conservative in others.

check this site for some of our normal weirdness. http://www.keepaustinweird.com/home.html

Leslie has been around for years, the Art in Public Places is awesome.

Sorry for the post hijack, but I agree, the note thing should maybe be brought to the attention of the cops.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

linerider said:


> No, the note was not intended specifically at my wife or it did not appear that way - no specific mention to lead her to believe that.


That makes things better but it still means there's at least one sicko stalking the area. Most likely he's a wanker hiding in the bushes but you never know. The price of being wrong is high.



linerider said:


> As for S&W protection, that just too heavy for us weight weenies...just kidding. She'd carry a cannon if it was the only way.


Only 11 oz.!



> It is a County Park so it is "technically" monitored but fat chance.


Shame there isn't a local women's karate team you could get to 'troll' the trail!


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## Shannon-UT (Mar 26, 2004)

My dad insisted that when we got to college my sisters and I take some kind of self defense course. I took one (I think hapkido). However, I envision my arms turning to limp noodles if I were ever to try to punch someone. None the less, I was given the tools to defend myself if it were to come to that.

Other than that, I try to ride places I feel safe, where families take their kids. I don't own a cell phone or pepper spray. Honestly, the incidences you described on the trail would freak me out.

I tell someone where I'm going and when I'll be back.


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## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

Personally I would never ever ride with a gun. Guns are made for one reason: to kill. I hope none of you will ever want to kill a person. If it came to that, I would quit riding and that is not a decision I take lightly.


It's a shame that she has been put in this position. Riding is supposed to be fun. How can she have fun if she is scared for her life? She needs to change the situation. You either get rid of the threat with the police, comunity patrol, etc.. or unfortuantly she may have to ride somewhere else.


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*Don't carry anything either*

I used to carry pepper spray but I took it out of my bag one day and forgot to put it back in. I generally ride where I know lots of other riders and the park is pretty safe. I rarely ride alone in the summer.
I personally wouldn't carry a gun because I would probably just wreck and injure myself with it. That being said, I see nothing wrong with having a gun for personal defense. I would never want to harm or kill someone but if someone breaks in my home I have something for them. I will defend myself if I can and if someone gets killed while attacking me or endangering me ~ tough sh$t. don't attack people


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## Mr.Bob (Jan 6, 2004)

formica said:


> the note thing creeps me out. Is the area patrolled at all, any authority that it could get reported to?
> I...


A written threat should absolutely be reported to the appropriate authority. Use that fancy camera phone and take a picture of it . I know it doesn't really help with your immediate concerns but at least it will put on record problem areas which may get addressed in the future. Yes, it's slim but if you don't point it out the chance is zero.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

Maida7 said:


> Guns are made for one reason: to kill.


That's simply not true but it is a nice slogan the gun control people are fond of.



> I hope none of you will ever want to kill a person.


Deadly force is never supposed to be used except when there is NO alternative. The extent to which one would go to protect themself is strictly an individual decision. However, I could have no higher level of contempt than for one who stood by and watched a loved one be seriously injured or killed because they were unwilling to act.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I ride alone a fair bit but don't feel the need to carry any kind of weapon, mostly because the weirdest weirdo I've ever seen on the trail was a bright white 300lb guy wearing no shirt and flip-flops on a 95 degree day in the desert! (That was not a nice image).

I guess I'd be tempted to carry some mace or something if there were known weirdos in the area, but more likely than not I'd just report it to the correct authority and ride faster. I would absolutely not resort to carrying a gun, either on the trail or anywhere else. While guns aren't just for killing (I shoot clay pigeons and targets with mine), I would never want to carry one on the trail under any circumstances. If I was so afraid of going out that I felt the need to carry a lethal weapon, I'd find somewhere else to ride or take up road biking... I have no need for that kind of paranoia in my life.

- Jen.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

mahgnillig said:


> If I was so afraid of going out that I felt the need to carry a lethal weapon, I'd find somewhere else to ride


That is without a doubt the wisest solution.


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## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

Even if you never fire it, a gun is designed with the ability to kill. If you have a gun and use it to protect yourself from an attacker It is foolish to think that you will not kill the person. That was what the gun is designed to do: kill the person. I would like to avoid killing people and thats why I chose not to have a gun. Call me crazy but it's my decision and I chose not to kill people.


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## brownieinSC (Apr 19, 2004)

*I really do not like violence either*

I don't like movies where people are being hurt, that have blood and guts, boxing or any form of causing some one or thing pain (or death of course). I get pale and dizzy when I see gross things and can't get them image out of my head. That said, I still would keep myself and my loved ones safe. 
If I did not feel safe on a trail I would personally just choose not to ride there. Normally I worry more about wrecking and no one being around to help. Not that I wreck a lot or anything  
I do feel a little more vulnerable in places where there are horseback riders, close to busier roads, etc but if I thought someone was going to get me I would ride at a different park. or as someone else suggested become a roadie (which makes me nervous because of the cars!)


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## janderson (May 31, 2005)

*I don't carry anything...*

... even though my hubby tries to get me to carry a can of mace to protect my little self. My rationale is that since I'm not exactly a skittish person, the chances of me actually holding my "weapon" while being attacked are slim to none. And what good does a can do me while safely waiting in my purse or camelbak? With the amount of stuff I tend to carry around it could take hours to find it. 

I am more comfortable relying on myself - I'd suggest ongoing self-defense and/or martial arts classes to anyone. Kickboxing (my choice) is a great cardio workout, plus I know I'm not afraid to throw a punch or a kick. Some Vee Arnis Jitsu helps, too 

Just my $0.02...


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

The only time I ever seriously considered getting a gun, was when a guy at work suddenly became obsessed with me. Those are the kinds of people that are the most dangerous statistically, not random strangers or perverts in the woods. He eventually committed suicide, though- sad, but a relief.

I agree that martial arts and such makes for a better weapon than a gun. What are the odds that, during a struggle, you'll be able to get into your CamelBak and unlock a gun? Without the attacker using it against you?? No thanks.

Just keep in mind, statistically, a woman is more likely to get killed by her own husband/BF/ex than anybody else. Keep the mace at home and have a great ride


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## EJ_92606 (Jul 11, 2004)

linerider said:


> It's not like she found an envelope and opened it up etc. It was an open note tagged to a branch leaning into the trail.
> your point is taken none the less.
> 
> I am still thinking of strapping MACE underneath the top tube. Any other ideas beside the phone which she carries?
> ...


I think that pepper spray or mace is a good idea, although I would suggest she clip it onto a camelback strap rather than on the bike, so that if someone jumps out of the bushes and knocks her off her bike, she will have easy access to it.


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## VT Mike (Jan 12, 2004)

janderson said:


> And what good does a can do me while safely waiting in my purse or camelbak? With the amount of stuff I tend to carry around it could take hours to find it.


Camelbak makes a cell phone holder that attaches to the strap of a Camelbak, so it would be right on your chest. It's the perfect size for a can of pepper spray. If you're going to carry one, it needs to be quick and easy to get it.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

brownieinSC said:


> I personally wouldn't carry a gun because I would probably just wreck and injure myself with it. That being said, I see nothing wrong with having a gun for personal defense. I would never want to harm or kill someone but if someone breaks in my home I have something for them. I will defend myself if I can and if someone gets killed while attacking me or endangering me ~ tough sh$t. don't attack people


Same here. I feel pretty safe around here, but if I did feel the need to arm myself, I sure wouldn't be worried about the harm I'd inflict on someone who attacked me. We had some friends around here who had some drug addicts try to break into their house w/a crowbar and machete this winter (VERY out of the ordinary, but it goes to show it can happen anywhere). Luckily the cops got there just before they broke the door down, but the only weapon they had for self defense in the house was a bat and they were scared to death. Shortly after that my husband went and bought a shotgun. I had said no for years, but that changed my mind.

Anyway - I'd report the note, avoid the trail for a while and start carrying pepper spray at a minimum. Sorry you're having to deal with this.


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## Talisman (Apr 5, 2004)

Pepper spray if in a handy location works on dogs pretty well. I have never had a problem with people when mtn biking, but have been attacked by dogs twice when riding past houses that resulted in a fall and skin puncturing bites. I love dogs, but biters are the exception.

I realize there are many opinions on carrying firearms, but if you are carrying a lethal weapon for protection you better be ready to kill someone as lethal weapons can escelate pretty minor situations into tragedies. Carrying the psychic weight of even a 'justified' death of another human at your hands isn't easy and would be made worse if there were other options. I own firearms, but it would never occur to me to 'pack heat' while riding.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

> However, I could have no higher level of contempt than for one who stood by and watched a loved one be seriously injured or killed because they were unwilling to act.


I'd have a much higher level of contempt for the person doing the attack.

I commute to work alone a few times a week and don't carry a cell phone or pepper spray. There are frequently people on the trail, and it's pretty open (not many trees) so I am aware of people before I get close to them. Most of the time when I ride in the wilderness I take my fiance or a friend, but more because I'm afraid of hurting myself than of someone else hurting me.

If I encountered a note like that, though, I'd most definitely report it.


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

linerider said:


> ...while on rides alone.


1 - I do occasionally carry a pistol while I'm riding. It's a right PITA, but some of my friends were shot at recently on my "happy-hour" bike trail.

2. - Spyderco Delica. NAYY. I had a larger spyderco for a while, but it was a little large for one-handed opening. That serrated edge will slice right through to bone with no effort at all.

3. Self-defense training.

4. Lots of practice with the above. This is the most important part. Weekly, if not *daily*, practice with whatever you decide is essential.



linerider said:


> Last week my wife found a very vulgar note on the trail talking about everything this guy is going to do to "her" and she kept going.


I do hope you reported this to the appropriate authorities?

gabrielle (yeah, I'm a little freaky about this, I have my reasons.  )


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## pinkhuffy (Feb 13, 2005)

*counterassault.com*

My husband bought me a jogger fogger on www.counterassault.com It is better than other pepper sprays becuase it can do a mist rather than a wimpy stream. There is also the bear size.

Yvette


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

This fits quite nicely in my wife's camelbak and is quite effective in significantly reducing severe threats of many kinds. Like horsepower, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it....


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## Easy Rider (Aug 4, 2004)

Maida7 said:


> Even if you never fire it, a gun is designed with the ability to kill. If you have a gun and use it to protect yourself from an attacker It is foolish to think that you will not kill the person.


You have either never been around guns, or you have way too much faith in their abilities. You do not absolutely drop dead the instant you are hit buy a bullet. People who are willing and prepared to defend themselves or family with a gun have trained to STOP the attacker as quickly as possible. Killing is not the goal, it may indeed be the outcome. Of course owning a gun is your choice, it is a huge responsibility. For me it is a burden worth bearing. I do not fit the "victim" mentality.

People, do not overestimate your pepper spray as well. Pepper spray has little affect on some people.

Whether you carry a gun, knife, pepperspray, or whatever the best thing you can do is put distance between you and an attacker. When I say distance I mean get far away, out of sight. That is your first priority. You have no idea how vulnerable you are when someone is within 20 feet of you. I promise you will not have time to get to any weapon.


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## xcdemon (May 19, 2004)

I have to butt in on this thread...
I used to train in thai-style kickboxing and streetfighting. Most fights are over in well under ten seconds. If someone flying tackles you from the bushes, you most definately will not have time to take off your Camelbak, dig around for your gun, and fire it. Take a crash course in street fighting... they teach you to fight in all scenarios (not just a controlled ring environment). You can maybe even get them to give you a bike-related private (you get beat up enough riding it, right? Well, you can probably use it to inflict damage on an attacker, too).
I ride regularly in what is now known in our group as the "cruising" area; lots of men, greased up, pantsless, and ready to go. Although it's pretty bizarre to come around a corner and see a guy fully commando, they're harmless. I just ride prudently and DON'T STOP for anything other than a co-rider crash.
I grew up in the woods (our property butted up against a local park that was about 1000 acres of wilderness in a small town), and our fair share of wierdos stumbled into backyard BBQs, etc. However scary, smelly, and nuts-looking they may be, they are generally harmless, and it's my personal theory that they lurk in the woods because normal society doesn't really accept them. I'm not suggesting you give them a hug and a cup of soup, here, just don't assume every freaky-looking guy is going to attack you.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

What she said!

I can't stand how many women I know simply refuse to do anything on their own for fear of this stuff. I have always done stuff by myself- jogging at the local H.S. track at night; hiking in the mountains; traveling overseas; riding my bike and attending races.....the idea is that if a guy can do it on his own, there's no reason why a woman shouldn't. 

In 20+ years, I've had a couple of scary experiences, but that's all they were- scariest was when I was 14 years old, out for a run (main street, broad daylight), and a van pulled up alongside. Three guys in the front seat immediately started yelling out the things they'd like to do to me. I just about-faced and started jogging in the opposite direction, so they couldn't continue following alongside me. That lasted barely 10 seconds.

Another time, just a few years ago, a car full of teenage boys pulled up during a walk at night. It was a residential side street, quiet 'burbs, not far from my house. What's funny is that they started the usual litany of obscene chatter, but their car was so deliberately macho-loud that I pretended I couldn't hear them. "What? WHAT??? Sorry, can't hear you.....WHAT??"


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*speed is your friend....*

OK, I just want to chime in really quickly.. I have several female friends that ride. I constantly worry about them since we live in such an urban area and often ride through the streets to get to the trails. The best piece of advice is to not ride alone. That said, riding alone is sometimes a necessity. Your best friend is your fitness. If you were attacked, your only defense is to do *whatever it takes* to get away and then run. (Bite, scratch, kick, SCREAM, pinch, headbut, punch, poke....) Leave your bike there if you have to and haul a$$. (Bikes are replaceable, YOU are not.) If you are a rider you have a better chance of getting away from some freak/mangler who doesn't train. Use your fitness to your advantage. "Run Forrest...! Run!!!"

JK


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Christine said:


> What she said!
> 
> I can't stand how many women I know simply refuse to do anything on their own for fear of this stuff. I have always done stuff by myself- jogging at the local H.S. track at night; hiking in the mountains; traveling overseas; riding my bike and attending races.....the idea is that if a guy can do it on his own, there's no reason why a woman shouldn't.


Totally agree. And I think 99% of self defense is common sense and assertively standing up for yourself. Don't look and act like a victim and they'll find an easier target.

Several years ago I went to Oktoberfest with some other girls. And it's crowded with REALLY drunk guys and while trying to push through crowds there's about a 99% chance you're going to get groped - you just swat away hands, be assertive and keep moving through the crowd and it's fine. But the other girls I was with kept getting stopped and would look at me and literally squeak out a little "Help" like they're a mouse or something. Good grief. All it takes is saying "LEAVE ME ALONE" like you mean it. (And it doesn't matter if they don't understand English - your tone speaks volumes) If you giggle and say "Oh, don't do that" in a little whisper like you're a fragile flower - they think you want them to do it again. Hell, I start to wonder if you want them to do it again. What is that??? These were girls that I lifted weights with, ran with - they're athletic women who somehow can't stand up for themselves at all. And I'd have to go over and grab them and tell the guy to leave them alone. If you're not naturally assertive, you probably NEED a self defense class where they teach you how to be to stay out of trouble.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

I spent $$$ getting my cousin's wife's bike all fixed up as her wedding gift, and the only time she rode it was with me. Once.

It's now been dying a slow death locked out on the back porch. Not even convinced they'll bring it with them during their move across town. If my *cousin* rode a bike, she'd be on it all the time, I'm sure. This is a lousy neighborhood for driving and parking, which makes it great for biking.

When I mention stuff to her like a bike ride along the beach, she sounds interested. If I ask to borrow her bike (a very comfy cruising mtb) she's all, "Why don't you ask ME to come?" Okay, come with my group for a night ride to the beach. Of course she doesn't come. I guess the trick is to convince my *cousin* first  

Stuff like a 10k run piques her interest as well, but I'm not going to work around her schedule just so she has a partner for each and every run. This is the kind of thing that rips my knitting.


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## Ethanol (May 8, 2005)

i always carry a cellphone and a knive, they both serve dual purpses, one is to call in to my parents that i'm ok or to call a friend if they went too far up the trail and i dont know what path to take, and the other is to call 911 if one of us gets hurt or if theres some stalker, as for the knive, i always carry a fint/magnesium block so if you ever ger stranded and lost somewhere you can build a fire if u have to stay the night, and the other reason is for defence.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Just got back from the gym, which is about a half mile or so from my house. Left there around 1:15am after most of the stores had closed.

Yeah, it's a bit seedy in town that time of night, everybody hanging out in front of the bars, the quiet streets making you stand out to other people walking around. But I was keeping my ears and eyes open.

I think it also helps to keep an irregular schedule. If you're always coming/going at the same exact time every day, your movement becomes too predictable. If you only go to the gym after midnight every now and then, not such a big deal.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*wrecks are a bigger concern*



Maida7 said:


> Personally I would never ever ride with a gun. Guns are made for one reason: to kill. I hope none of you will ever want to kill a person. If it came to that, I would quit riding and that is not a decision I take lightly.


I'd be perfectly content to shoot someone to protect myself, but given the odds, I am clearly much more likely to accidently shoot myself or a buddy while riding and crashing than to have the opportunity to shoot a bad guy.

More riding buddies is a good answer.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*yikes!*



gabrielle said:


> 1 - I do occasionally carry a pistol while I'm riding. It's a right PITA, but some of my friends were shot at recently on my "happy-hour" bike trail.


Where do you LIVE?


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*too funny!*



Christine said:


> Another time, just a few years ago, a car full of teenage boys pulled up during a walk at night. It was a residential side street, quiet 'burbs, not far from my house. What's funny is that they started the usual litany of obscene chatter, but their car was so deliberately macho-loud that I pretended I couldn't hear them. "What? WHAT??? Sorry, can't hear you.....WHAT??"


I love this! Next time maybe I'll pretend not to speak English.

Y'know, I've always jogged / walked / ridden alone at any time of day or night no matter where I've lived. My only concession has been in the bad areas at night I always took at least one dog. My dogs, btw, are not small and tend to not appreciate strangers.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> but given the odds, I am clearly much more likely to accidently shoot myself or a buddy while riding and crashing than to have the opportunity to shoot a bad guy.


And what odds would those be? Unless you're riding with your finger on the trigger or you have a VERY defective firearm, it's not going to discharge because you crash.

(except maybe in the case where you're using a firearm that's the mountain biking equivalent of a Huffy bike)


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

What MidAtlantic meant, is that statistically, more kids and people are shot accidentally by each other (or while cleaning/playing with a gun) than intruders or attackers.

I never read or hear about people actually using a gun for its intended purposes successfully. Like, "Some guy broke into my house, so I reached under my pillow, fired a warning shot and he was outta there." 

More like, "A four-year-old found the gun and while showing it to his friend, shot him point-blank." WAY too often.


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## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

Christine said:


> What MidAtlantic meant, is that statistically, more kids and people are shot accidentally by each other (or while cleaning/playing with a gun) than intruders or attackers.
> 
> I never read or hear about people actually using a gun for its intended purposes successfully. Like, "Some guy broke into my house, so I reached under my pillow, fired a warning shot and he was outta there."
> 
> More like, "A four-year-old found the gun and while showing it to his friend, shot him point-blank." WAY too often.


a four year old, a thief, an animal in the woods, whatever

Guns are designed to kil things. If you equip yourself with a gun for self defense you must expect that you will kill somebody. Killing another person is a very serious thing. Even if you want to kill the person, It is an act that may haunt you for the rest of your days. Acidental killings are posible as well. However small you think the risk, is it worth it?


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

Christine said:


> I never read or hear about people actually using a gun for its intended purposes successfully. Like, "Some guy broke into my house, so I reached under my pillow, fired a warning shot and he was outta there."
> 
> More like, "A four-year-old found the gun and while showing it to his friend, shot him point-blank." WAY too often.


The defensive use articles are there. Usually 3 sentences somewhere in the back of the paper. A kid getting killed makes front page news nationally but one side of the issue sees no media bias in selective reporting. Quite simply defensive firearm use NEVER gets anywhere close to the coverage accidents and tragedies get.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

Maida7 said:


> Guns are designed to kil things. If you equip yourself with a gun for self defense you must expect that you will kill somebody.


 



> However small you think the risk, is it worth it?


You, then, are perfectly willing to sacrifice your own life for the well being of a crack addict willing to smash your head in for whatever he thinks you may or may not have in your wallet? How about spending the rest of your life with severe permanet disability because some slime pervert gets off on beating women nearly to death before raping them with enough force to destroy them physically?

You are free to make your own choices either way. I am suggesting to you that there are, unfortunately, others in the world who do not share your view of right and wrong and those people tend to prey most on those they see as weak and easy targets. Prey and predator is the way of all life.

As far as guns go though and however tragic their misuse can be, the chances of a firearm being used in anyway to harm another human being are far smaller than you're led to believe. I worry far more about getting run over in the grocery store parking lot by some moron on a cell phone not paying attention to their driving.


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## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

_"you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one"_

_"all we need is love"_

_"all we are saying is give peace a chance"_

_happiness is a warm gun_ 

Seriously, I agree don't act like a victim and defend your self if you are atacked. But don't kill people


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

mbmojo said:


> You, then, are perfectly willing to sacrifice your own life for the well being of a crack addict willing to smash your head in for whatever he thinks you may or may not have in your wallet? How about spending the rest of your life with severe permanet disability because some slime pervert gets off on beating women nearly to death before raping them with enough force to destroy them physically?
> 
> You are free to make your own choices either way. I am suggesting to you that there are, unfortunately, others in the world who do not share your view of right and wrong and those people tend to prey most on those they see as weak and easy targets. Prey and predator is the way of all life.
> 
> As far as guns go though and however tragic their misuse can be, the chances of a firearm being used in anyway to harm another human being are far smaller than you're led to believe. I worry far more about getting run over in the grocery store parking lot by some moron on a cell phone not paying attention to their driving.


I used to have a somewhat irrational fear of firearms, but came to understand that it's partially out of ignorance fueled by the media. In the last ten years, I've met numerous people that own guns that they use primarily for hunting ( they feed their families with game) and law enforcement. My son was mentored in upland game hunting by one of these people, went through a hunter safety course, and it was a real education for all of us that were unfamiliar with firearms. My core politics haven't changed but I've certainly had my mind opened to the concept of responsible firearm use and ownership.

Most people would be surprised to learn just how many people they know have permits for legal concealed firearms.


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

Christine said:


> I never read or hear about people actually using a gun for its intended purposes successfully. Like, "Some guy broke into my house, so I reached under my pillow, fired a warning shot and he was outta there."


/me raises hand

Now you have.  Except it wasn't under my pillow...does that still count? 

gabrielle


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

MidAtlanticXCer said:


> Where do you LIVE?


A place with lots of usually non-dangerous drunk ********. 

gabrielle


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## wheeliegirl (May 1, 2005)

I would report the creep. Who knows how many other women he has approached, assulted, etc. Imagine if it was a little girl? 

Gun ownership is a contoversial subject, no doubt.

I do have a conceal carry permit. I currently own 4 pistols. And I actually enjoy target practicing. But I was also disappointed that the assualt weapons ban was allowed to expire. So I am not one of the far right NRA'ers.

I usually do not carry any on the trail because more times than not, it is illegal - especially in Natl Parks. But I have carried while hiking in areas where permitted, which is very rare. I typically carry mace, a cell phone and a knife. I am usually alone either hiking or mtb'ing. IMHO the greatest danger for me - is getting injured on the trail. But I always let someone know where I am going and what time I will be back. I also use the cell phone to 'check in'. 

If you decide to carry or own a pistol, take a safety class and learn how to shoot and learn how to clean, break down the gun, operation, etc. I know women who have owned guns and never fired them - let alone know how to chamber a round.

Most quality hand guns will not fire when dropped. A good hand gun has a design that would not allow for accidental firing. Secondly, carrying a pistol with a round in the chamber could allow for accidental discharge - playing with gun, cleaning, etc.

If you own a gun for self-protection - the greatest barrier for many is knowing that it will be used for self-defense - i.e. killing or maiming someone. It should be serisouly considered. 

In addition, a gun can also be taken away from you and used against you - especially if you are not ready to use it.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

One common theme in this thread seems to be fear. The reason is that fear sells newspapers. How many times so far this week/month/year have you heard or read on the news about the next thing that's gonna kill you? One moment it's terrorists, the next it's hantavirus, the next it's chlorine in Splenda and the next it's the creep on the street corner who wants to steal your gun and shoot you with it.

Of course people should feel safe doing what they enjoy, and they should take precautions in order that they do feel safe, but we can't all be wrapped up in cotton wool for our whole lives. I firmly believe that the culture of fear is mostly dictated by the media... because it sells. When you compare the likelihood of being murdered while riding your bike to something like getting cancer or heart disease, you are far less at risk on the bike. The trouble is, cancer and heart disease don't sell papers, whereas loonies with guns do.

Like others have said, for me the greatest fear I have while out riding trails is that I'm going to fall and hurt myself badly. Statistically that is way more likely than someone jumping me from behind a joshua tree.

mbmojo: I think we can all see from the direction that this thread has taken that you are a big advocate of carrying a gun. To each their own... some people like them, some don't. I own guns and I like to shoot at targets, but I don't feel it necessary to carry one for self defence so I don't. It is true that the original design and purpose of all firearms was to kill, but that clearly is not the case anymore (I've never killed anything with mine). However, trying to convince someone that doesn't like guns that they are wrong and should carry one is never going to work, so please stop trying to belittle Maida7 for her (or his?) view.

- Jen.


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

mahgnillig said:


> mbmojo: I think we can all see from the direction that this thread has taken that you are a big advocate of carrying a gun.


Not necessarily. I personally would never ride in a place where I felt a need for one and I avoid places and situations where safety is at risk. I know that there are situations where people are put in situations where deadly force is going happen and it becomes a matter of which party it's going to happen to. Outside of some small social groups and some communities, they are rare for the most part.



> ...so please stop trying to belittle Maida7 for her (or his?) view.


It was not my intent to belittle anybody and I apologize if I came across that way. So many times I encounter people who are just 'sure' of firearm facts but all they are doing is echoing the factoids of the gun control lobby and like most facts from any side of a political issue, the smallest truth is often strectched into something absurd and very inaccurate.


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