# 2021 Race Tires



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

It’s that time of year again. It’s a new year and here’s a brand new thread.

My fingers are crossed that racing happens in one form or another this coming season.

Instead of my usual Ikon, I’m super interested in trying an Aspen 2.4 on the front of my singlespeed with the tried and trusted Aspen 2.25 in the rear.

What are you guys and gals up to?


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## LegionX (Mar 4, 2015)

Very timely thread, was just getting ready to order tires today. Ran Aspen 2.25 last year, was considering Aspen 2.4 but concerned about my 25mm rim being too narrow. Ordering Racing Ray/Ralph 2.25 combo. How do the Aspen 2.4 run on narrower rims?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Does the Aspen 2.4 measure up bigger than an Ikon 2.35?

I'll probably be running a Fasttrak/Renegade Control combo again.
Almost half the price of Maxxis tyres here and more supple and faster rolling than EXO Ikons.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LegionX said:


> Very timely thread, was just getting ready to order tires today. Ran Aspen 2.25 last year, was considering Aspen 2.4 but concerned about my 25mm rim being too narrow. Ordering Racing Ray/Ralph 2.25 combo. How do the Aspen 2.4 run on narrower rims?


I tried the Aspen 2.4 on 25mm inner width rims and found that it made the tire too rounded which required more lean in the turns to get the bigger side knobs to hook up. I believe the 2.4 would be a much better tire on 29 to 30 mm inner width rims and that is exactly what it was designed for.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I'll be racing on 2.6s this year. The hardtail is way more comfy with the extra squish and I don't really notice much difference between the 2.4s I used to run. I'll be on Mezcals, though I wish there were more options. I really don't care for the Mezcal as a front, but the 2.6 Barzo is impossible to get your hands on these days.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Last year I ran Rekon/Aspen 2.25. I plan on buying 2.3 Fast Traks this year.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Seems a lot of rubber reformulations this year and tire weight has gone up across the board. I'm still hunting for a good front tire. I've settled on the Renegade 2.3 for the rear though. A reasonable 650 grams, tough over 1000 miles and still not worn out yet. I'll probably get another half season out of it. Pretty amazing considering my Aspen on the rear was toast at around 600 miles.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Stonerider said:


> I tried the Aspen 2.4 on 25mm inner width rims and found that it made the tire too rounded which required more lean in the turns to get the bigger side knobs to hook up. I believe the 2.4 would be a much better tire on 29 to 30 mm inner width rims and that is exactly what it was designed for.


As a counterpoint, I'm running the Aspen 2.4 rear (Recon Race 2.4 front) on 26mm internal rims and they are working great. Maxxis says 25-30mm rim acceptable (30mm recommended).


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I have a set of Icon's, a set of Aspens, and a Ralph/Ray. I will pick which tires I will use depending on the trails.


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## Chiselized (Jan 17, 2021)

Hi folks, first time poster here. I recently noticed the Renegades on Sarrou's bike. The shoulders look a fair bit chunkier than before.









Bike Check: Jordan Sarrou's World Champion Custom Specialized Epic - Pinkbike


Sarrou will be on Specialized for 2021, and they welcomed him to the team with a custom painted Epic.




www.pinkbike.com


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Chiselized said:


> Hi folks, first time poster here. I recently noticed the Renegades on Sarrou's bike. The shoulders look a fair bit chunkier than before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is running the new Control version of the Renegade...probably for training as the S-Works version is not very puncture proof. The latest Control version is a really, really nice tire though. It seems to roll well and hooks up well in the turns too.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> He is running the new Control version of the Renegade...probably for training as the S-Works version is not very puncture proof. The latest Control version is a really, really nice tire though. It seems to roll well and hooks up well in the turns too.


How's the 2.3 volume compared to say a Maxxis ikon or Rekon race 2.35?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

My Renegade Controls settled in at 2.33 and weighed around 655g. I've never owned the Ikon or Rekon Race so I can't say how they compare.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I'll be racing on 2.6s this year. The hardtail is way more comfy with the extra squish and I don't really notice much difference between the 2.4s I used to run. I'll be on Mezcals, though I wish there were more options. I really don't care for the Mezcal as a front, but the 2.6 Barzo is impossible to get your hands on these days.


 R2bike is showing 2.6 Barzos as being available later this month. They must be pretty popular!


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

I think there is a new maxxis Rekon 2.35 3c maxspeed , i saw it on the SC Blur TR model, no info on maxxis site


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Skarhead said:


> I think there is a new maxxis Rekon 2.35 3c maxspeed , i saw it on the SC Blur TR model, no info on maxxis site


Now that's a tire I'm interested in. Could be an OEM only tire though. I have some Rekon 2.4 with 120tpi that were OEM to Scott last year. Lighter and more supple than the 60tpi aftermarket version.

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## TommyL (Apr 18, 2012)

I'd love to get advice from this crew. I'm considering trying to do a race or two in the NW Epic Series this year. Never done a pure XC race before, though I've done my fair share of mountain bike racing in multisport settings, especially adventure racing.

I have a Tallboy 3 that I picked up in May. It came with an Aggressor rear and DHRii front. I quickly swapped out the Aggressor for a Minion SS and ran that all summer. It was quite fast. I've picked up some bargain tires here and there, with the thought of being able to pivot to a more XC setup down the road. Right now I am running DHR ii front and rear for the winter. It's obviously amazing for wet and technical trails. I am a very strong technical climber, but more tentative than some descending. So I think there's an argument for erring on the side of beefier tires.

I'm also not super familiar with any of the courses (I've ridden in Capitol Forest and Mission Ridge once each), so maybe beefy tires are overkill? I ride in Bellingham and the trails are twisty, rooty, technical.

So in my stable now, in addition to the DHRiis I have these tires:
Aggressor 2.3 - 965g
Minion SS 2.3 - 865g
Trail Boss light/fast 2.4 - 860g and 870g
Ikon 2.2 - 660g

A couple of F/R combinations I'm thinking about:

DHRii/SS - Worked great for me last summer and while not the fastest combo plays to my relative strengths/weaknesses.
TB/TB - I've not heard of anyone running a Trail Boss in the front. Only back. It seems like it might actually be slower because the lighter front is countered by slower back.
TB/SS - Potentially faster but am I asking for trouble with big side lugs on the rear but not front?
TB/Ikon - I just worry that the Ikon is not up to the task, especially at 2.2.
Buy another tire(s)

Obviously I can try these combos out (and will), but objectively testing lots of tire combos takes a lot of time! Would love to hear the thoughts of the group.


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## louit32 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm going to change my tires for my epic sworks with 29mm front rim and 25mm rear rim.

I want tires that roll fast, with a good protection for the summer.

my list is :

fast track front and rear control 2.3. (I'm scared with the braking and the climbing traction of a renegade)
racing ray/ralph 2.35 (the new model with tan sidewall)
maxxis : front: Rekon 2.4? rekon race 2.35? ardent race 2.35? rear: ikon 2.35? rekon race 2.35?

if you had compared theses tires , let me know. thanks.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TommyL said:


> I'd love to get advice from this crew. I'm considering trying to do a race or two in the NW Epic Series this year. Never done a pure XC race before, though I've done my fair share of mountain bike racing in multisport settings, especially adventure racing.
> 
> I have a Tallboy 3 that I picked up in May. It came with an Aggressor rear and DHRii front. I quickly swapped out the Aggressor for a Minion SS and ran that all summer. It was quite fast. I've picked up some bargain tires here and there, with the thought of being able to pivot to a more XC setup down the road. Right now I am running DHR ii front and rear for the winter. It's obviously amazing for wet and technical trails. I am a very strong technical climber, but more tentative than some descending. So I think there's an argument for erring on the side of beefier tires.
> 
> ...


Due to what you are used to and probably a desire for traction and to have fun. I suggest you buy 2 2.25 Rekon Races and a forkaster 2.35. The RR is like a Minion SS light.

Try the FK/ RR combo and also test your bike kn the RR/RR combo. Ride it foe a while and see if it figs your riding style.

Ive gone down this path coming from a pretty trail tire combo. Ive gone through a lot of combos. Making the transition was easy and has been great. Still able to charge hard on downhills on this combo.

Im racing and riding full time on a Rekon Race 2.25 combo front and rear. They come in at 670-700 grams each depending on the batch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

louit32 said:


> I'm going to change my tires for my epic sworks with 29mm front rim and 25mm rear rim.
> 
> I want tires that roll fast, with a good protection for the summer.
> 
> ...


I have not noticed that the Renegade is a worse braking tire than the Fast Trak. In fact, as a rear tire, the Renegade is more composed under hard braking when there is any lean in the bike. The FT will break away without warning whereas the Renegade is controlled and progressive. The Fast Trak _might_ be better in perfect straightline braking with no lean in the bike because it has slightly bigger knobs but I have not noticed any difference while riding. I prefer the Fast Trak as a front tire but the Renegade as a rear.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

TommyL said:


> I'd love to get advice from this crew. I'm considering trying to do a race or two in the NW Epic Series this year. Never done a pure XC race before, though I've done my fair share of mountain bike racing in multisport settings, especially adventure racing.
> 
> I have a Tallboy 3 that I picked up in May. It came with an Aggressor rear and DHRii front. I quickly swapped out the Aggressor for a Minion SS and ran that all summer. It was quite fast. I've picked up some bargain tires here and there, with the thought of being able to pivot to a more XC setup down the road. Right now I am running DHR ii front and rear for the winter. It's obviously amazing for wet and technical trails. I am a very strong technical climber, but more tentative than some descending. So I think there's an argument for erring on the side of beefier tires.
> 
> ...


Most of your tires are overkill for most of the series. If you are willing to buy new tires, I'd consider faster tires. Stotl is much like B'ham so run what you would up there (tire choice is so weather dependent there). Echo is non-technical so run your fastest setup (Trailboss front or SS front, Ikon rear), Devils Gulch, I'd go DHR front trail Ikon rear).


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

louit32 said:


> I'm going to change my tires for my epic sworks with 29mm front rim and 25mm rear rim.
> 
> I want tires that roll fast, with a good protection for the summer.
> 
> ...


Yep, the Renegade rear is very composed and smooth under braking.
It is also an excellent climbing tyre. Better climbing, rolling, gripping and compliance than an Ikon. The Ikon *compound* is grippier though.
Much cheaper than Maxxis too.
Mine is about shot at 3,000km. The climbing is still better than an Ikon, but the braking is getting dicey.


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## louit32 (Jul 20, 2014)

tick_magnet said:


> I have not noticed that the Renegade is a worse braking tire than the Fast Trak. In fact, as a rear tire, the Renegade is more composed under hard braking when there is any lean in the bike. The FT will break away without warning whereas the Renegade is controlled and progressive. The Fast Trak _might_ be better in perfect straightline braking with no lean in the bike because it has slightly bigger knobs but I have not noticed any difference while riding. I prefer the Fast Trak as a front tire but the Renegade as a rear.


thanks for the answer, I saw also a prototype tire during world cup event, it look like a renegade more grippy

here:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CF0Vrq7Ftnr/

or I'm wrong the current renegade is like that.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I think I know something about tires, then the new guy in my cat1 masters race group kicks my a$$ and wins by 5 minutes in mud/wet/slick on Thunder Burts. Aside from that, I'm very happy on Rocket Rons for mixed, and Forekasters (rear with Ardent front, or both) for really wet. I did really like the Mezcal for dry and some wet, but Ron's are quite a bit lighter, - Mezcal's seem to have a tougher sidewall, I'd probably run those if I were racing in mostly dry where I needed a tougher sidewall, and they feel SO fast to me. 

As for the nw epic series: 
Stottlemeyer can be peanut butter slick (a few years ago I passed a guy and just plain slid off the course into the bushes, nothing I could do), Capitol can get pretty wet and nasty slick too (there's that red-ish clay-mud in the upper parts, I have jerseys stained from 30 years ago!), - you're looking at a variety of conditions for that series. May can be really slick at Stottlemeyer, after that you're probably looking at dry for the other races, but you never know about Capitol, some heavy summer rain and it will be slick. If I were doing those, I'd go with rocket rons for Stottlemeyer, and probably Capitol, - and they would work for the East side courses too (but I haven't ridden those places). There's a race at Stottlemeyer on 3/28, I'm sure some of the trails will be the same, -that's a fun place for racing, it would probably be worth doing the 3/28 race as a pre-ride.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Mine is about shot at 3,000km. The climbing is still better than an Ikon, but the braking is getting dicey.


Just checked. 1,700km. Close enough


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

jimPacNW said:


> I think I know something about tires, then the new guy in my cat1 masters race group kicks my a$$ and wins by 5 minutes in mud/wet/slick on Thunder Burts.


I've got one of those guys here too (50-55 masters).
Completely worn Thunder Burt rear, but the compound feels like chewing gum.
Wet or dry I see him at the start and when he laps me...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Pirelli scorpion mtb xc Soft on front 
Pirelli scorpion mtb xc race on the back


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## tjkm (Jun 9, 2007)

louit32 said:


> I'm going to change my tires for my epic sworks with 29mm front rim and 25mm rear rim.
> 
> I want tires that roll fast, with a good protection for the summer.
> 
> ...


I have run 2.3 Fast Track F/R on my hard tail with no issues. The Gripton rubber compound rolls really well and I would run these again. I am on a Maxxis kick right now, but I seem to come back to the Fast Tracks at some point.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Vance72 said:


> R2bike is showing 2.6 Barzos as being available later this month. They must be pretty popular!


I got tired of waiting and picked up an Agarro for the front. More aggressive than I normally run for my race setup, but I still got my hands on a Mezcal for the rear so I'm satisfied.


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I’ve always been a Maxxis guy but I rode Vittoria Agarro’s all winter and liked them so much that I’m giving the 2.35 Mezcal’s a try on my singlespeed for technical endurance racing. It looks like the first race on them will be a super technical 50k in early May.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Anyone care to reveal how the Racing Ray/Racing Ralph in Schwalbe's new Super Race construction (tan sidewall) are holding up? Are they fast XC tires?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> Anyone care to reveal how the Racing Ray/Racing Ralph in Schwalbe's new Super Race construction (tan sidewall) are holding up? Are they fast XC tires?


Can't comment on the durability or speed, but some guy with the name "LoveMTB" on YouTube weighed and measured the 2.35 Super Races. They weighed in the neighborhood of 740-760 grams while being undersized (I think <2.30). That is a bit disappointing considering that the Renegade 2.3 weighs 650g and measures 2.33.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Anyone care to reveal how the Racing Ray/Racing Ralph in Schwalbe's new Super Race construction (tan sidewall) are holding up? Are they fast XC tires?


Armchair quarterbacking here. I don't know who in their right mind would race a 740 gram Tire without sidewall protection. Especially a skin wall one.

I mean, I have done it as a test, but it didn't end well in the B40 and got my first sidewall puncture ever.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

tick_magnet said:


> Can't comment on the durability or speed, but some guy with the name "LoveMTB" on YouTube weighed and measured the 2.35 Super Races. They weighed in the neighborhood of 740-760 grams while being undersized (I think <2.30). That is a bit disappointing considering that the Renegade 2.3 weighs 650g and measures 2.33.


I hear what you are saying but it's difficult to make a call on sizing without knowing wheel internal widths and tyre pressures.

Schwalbe tyres are getting heavier. I have the 29 2.35 Racing Ray and 29 2.35 Racing Ralph in non skin wall. Very fast rolling and grip well at 19psi front 18.5 psi back.

Not sure how durable a 650 gram 2.3 tyre is. I love a light tyre but would pass on that.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Vance72 said:


> Not sure how durable a 650 gram 2.3 tyre is. I love a light tyre but would pass on that.


My Renegades have lasted 1200 off road miles as a rear tire and I will probably get another half year out of it. So no issues with durabillity. My Maxxis Aspens lasted about 1/3 to 1/2 of that.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

tick_magnet said:


> My Renegades have lasted 1200 off road miles as a rear tire and I will probably get another half year out of it. So no issues with durabillity. My Maxxis Aspens lasted about 1/3 to 1/2 of that.


I was skeptical about the Fast Trak/Renegade 2.3 combo (many of my friends love them for local racing and riding) but so far, so good for me as well. 2 weeks on them and I'm really impressed - no visible wear, fast rolling, predictable drift, and no surprises. Great choice for me. Not too many sharp rocks here, to be fair, but tons of roots.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Cool good to hear. I will caution though that people avoid the tan sidewall Fast Trak. Those are very fragile for some reason. I cut one in two different spots. I will say they are supple and the ride is super sweet when - even better than the Renegades. But durability is a problem. It appears the new versions (the ones that explicitly say "Control" on the sidewalls) with the black sidewalls are tougher.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

tick_magnet said:


> Cool good to hear. I will caution though that people avoid the tan sidewall Fast Trak. Those are very fragile for some reason. I cut one in two different spots. I will say they are supple and the ride is super sweet when - even better than the Renegades. But durability is a problem. It appears the new versions (the ones that explicitly say "Control" on the sidewalls) with the black sidewalls are tougher.


Yes, mine are blackwall with the "Control" branding.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

tick_magnet said:


> My Renegades have lasted 1200 off road miles as a rear tire and I will probably get another half year out of it. So no issues with durabillity. My Maxxis Aspens lasted about 1/3 to 1/2 of that.


I stand corrected or educated! 1200 off road miles is very good. I'm not surprised the Aspens don't last that long with the amount of tread they have. Good race tire but not so good for training unless you can afford to replace them frequently.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Vance72 said:


> I stand corrected or educated! 1200 off road miles is very good. I'm not surprised the Aspens don't last that long with the amount of tread they have. Good race tire but not so good for training unless you can afford to replace them frequently.


I actually feel like the Aspen doesn't roll nearly as fast as these S works tires. Maybe it's just me.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

tommyrod74 said:


> I actually feel like the Aspen doesn't roll nearly as fast as these S works tires. Maybe it's just me.


I have never tried s-works but the weight looks very appealing. I usually pick my lines well and don't ride in rocky conditions so I may have to check some s-works out.

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

tommyrod74 said:


> I actually feel like the Aspen doesn't roll nearly as fast as these S works tires. Maybe it's just me.


I tried a 2.4 Aspen on the rear and it felt slow compared to the 2.3 Renegade Control. Needless to say it came off and I put a 2.3 Renegade back on.

We have to remember that we only have access to the 120tpi Aspen...not the 170tpi version Nino, Kate, and the other pros use. I'm sure their pro only version rolls faster.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> I tried a 2.4 Aspen on the rear and it felt slow compared to the 2.3 Renegade Control. Needless to say it came off and I put a 2.3 Renegade back on.
> 
> We have to remember that we only have access to the 120tpi Aspen...not the 170tpi version Nino, Kate, and the other pros use. I'm sure their pro only version rolls faster.


I would happily pay a premium to try out the 170 tpi. Nino if you are listening please sell me an old set!


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## xtrpickels (Mar 22, 2007)

I've been getting along well with 2.35 Racing Ray & 2.35 Thunderburts, both in Super Race during training in dry Front Range Colorado Conditions. 

The Thunderburt is surprisingly good for general fast-pace riding. 
I'm somewhat ambivalent toward the Racing Ray, it's best attribute is that it rolls well. 

Has anyone run a Racing Ralph as a front? Seen it under WC athletes, but haven't found much in these threads.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

Hi


xtrpickels said:


> I've been getting along well with 2.35 Racing Ray & 2.35 Thunderburts, both in Super Race during training in dry Front Range Colorado Conditions.
> 
> The Thunderburt is surprisingly good for general fast-pace riding.
> I'm somewhat ambivalent toward the Racing Ray, it's best attribute is that it rolls well.
> ...


I feel the same way about the Racing Ray as a front tire. Probably lacks the grip of a Rocket Ron but that only come in a 2.25. Good to hear about the Thunder Burt. Very quick tyre. I bought some when they first came out in 2.1. Keen to try 2.35 snakeskin.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Specialized bringing the different compounds to their XC tires. Fast trak getting a total revamp, looks more like a Vittoria Barzo now. Seen in the wild at the ProXCT last weekend in Fayetteville.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

How is that tyre called a Fasttrak?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

pinkpowa said:


> Specialized bringing the different compounds to their XC tires. Fast trak getting a total revamp, looks more like a Vittoria Barzo now. Seen in the wild at the ProXCT last weekend in Fayetteville.


I've been seeing some new looking Renegades on Instagram from Specialized's European based Pros. I wonder when they are going to announce to the public? Lots of S-Works MTB tires are out of stock on Specialized's website.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

I heard they're getting launched in June ahead of the Olympics.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

pinkpowa said:


> I heard they're getting launched in June ahead of the Olympics.


Does any one have an idea of weights. The fast track looks like it will provide some good grip up front.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I saw a new racing Ralph super ground hit the scale at 804 grams.


What the heck is going on? My 2017 Hans Dampfs were 805 grams. 

The new Super race seem to be mid 700s for a skinwall with NO snakeskin protection.

I have an order of 10 tires coming. Some are the old compound, some new super ground. I’ll get weights when they arrive. 


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

That first pic looks oddly like the old Ritchey Z-Max tread pattern from years ago... weird.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

I noticed that the Rons are widely on sale at the moment... I snaffled up a couple, as I love the Ron, but I wonder whether they've got a redesign coming up (hence shops unloading stock).

Based on above observations on weight, if they do redesign, a new one might be heavier (which would be a shame as the Ron is super light for the grip).

So, buy more lightweight Rons on sale to stock up, or possibly hold out for a new Ron that will have a better tread and/or come in 2.35?


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

FJSnoozer said:


> I saw a new racing Ralph super ground hit the scale at 804 grams.
> 
> What the heck is going on? My 2017 Hans Dampfs were 805 grams.
> 
> ...


I hear you on the weights. I've got a couple of slightly older compounds. 800 grams is making me question Schwalbe for xc tires. I don't ride rock gardens or any where too gnarly.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Crayefish said:


> I noticed that the Rons are widely on sale at the moment... I snaffled up a couple, as I love the Ron, but I wonder whether they've got a redesign coming up (hence shops unloading stock).
> 
> Based on above observations on weight, if they do redesign, a new one might be heavier (which would be a shame as the Ron is super light for the grip).
> 
> So, buy more lightweight Rons on sale to stock up, or possibly hold out for a new Ron that will have a better tread and/or come in 2.35?


I bought up some lightweight Ron's. Also ordered the new ROn super ground 2.25. It is now rated at 660. I will let y'all know what they come in at. Also, if they are wider than the old narrow Ron.

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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

What do folks think of the Fast Trak for racing? My 2.3's that came on my specialized epic are really light, and have good volume for a 2.3. My other options are Forekaster, Ardent Race, Ikon, and Aspen. Forekaster is a no brainer for me if things are really slick. I think the Ardent Race has more grip than the fast traks, and is more rugged, but heavier. The Ikons only seem good for dry, rocky conditions where I'd be worried to destroy the Fast Traks. And the aspen seems like only a good dry weather rear tire, but isn't any lighter than the Fast Traks.


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

I have a pair of rekon 120tpi terra tr 3c on order.. I will give yall a update after i get some time on thems both are 29 2.60


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I do like the Fasttrak front and Renegade rear for racing but the rockier it gets, the more I lean towards Maxxis.
Usually Ikon rear and either Ikon or Ardent Race front. The Maxxis rubber compound grips better, but the Specialized lug pattern digs better.

The Specialized tyres come in normal, Control and grid.
Grid seems a bit more of a heavier sidewall than EXO.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

le_pedal said:


> What do folks think of the Fast Trak for racing? My 2.3's that came on my specialized epic are really light, and have good volume for a 2.3. My other options are Forekaster, Ardent Race, Ikon, and Aspen. Forekaster is a no brainer for me if things are really slick. I think the Ardent Race has more grip than the fast traks, and is more rugged, but heavier. The Ikons only seem good for dry, rocky conditions where I'd be worried to destroy the Fast Traks. And the aspen seems like only a good dry weather rear tire, but isn't any lighter than the Fast Traks.


I really like the Fast Trak Control on the front as it is light, supple, grips relatively well, and rolls fast. That said, I now have a Ground Control on the front paired with a Renegade on the rear. The Ground Control is heavier but the cornering grip level is incredible. I can rail a turn so fast that the Renegade on the rear will start a little drifting action that's controlled by counter steering the Ground Control on the front. Fun!


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

FJSnoozer said:


> I bought up some lightweight Ron's. Also ordered the new ROn super ground 2.25. It is now rated at 660. I will let y'all know what they come in at. Also, if they are wider than the old narrow Ron.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I found that my older liteskin Rons (got from a friend who used them for a little while but didn't get on with them) actually measure 60mm on my IW 30 rims (they were 56mm on my old IW 21 rims) compared to the new superground which measure 57mm on the new rims... but the old ones might have had a bit of stretch so not a totally fair comparison.


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> I saw a new racing Ralph super ground hit the scale at 804 grams.


I had a Racing Ray super ground 2.35 come in at 800g against a claimed 750g

But the Racing Ralph super ground 2.35 came in at 700g against a claimed 750g

Averages lie!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Udyr said:


> I had a Racing Ray super ground 2.35 come in at 800g against a claimed 750g
> 
> But the Racing Ralph super ground 2.35 came in at 700g against a claimed 750g
> 
> Averages lie!


That's par for the course. That's why we buy a lot and then parse out the heavy ones to training use or potentially be sold.

I have a bunch of 830 gram Nobby nics that go on the enduro bike.

If I get 750 gram XC tires from Germany I am likely to just sell them on eBay. At that point, my wife will probably just switch to maxxis (if I can find non yellow!)

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

For 2021 my lineup (30.5mm internal rims on Berd spokes) is:

*Rocket Ron Addix 2.25* for muddy races (of which there have been quite a few)
*Vittoria Barzo 2.35 trail* compound for all others. I am about to do some old-school knob lopping on the center knobs with a tire groover.

_Wish list_: *Rocket Ron 2.35 or Vittoria Terreno 2.35*, those would be both awesome additions. Both are highly underrated treads.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

chomxxo said:


> _Wish list_: *Rocket Ron 2.35 or Vittoria Terreno 2.35*, those would be both awesome additions. Both are highly underrated treads.


A 2.35 Ron with a tread made for wider rims would definitely be a winner, I think.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

Crayefish said:


> A 2.35 Ron with a tread made for wider rims would definitely be a winner, I think.


A 2.35 Ron would be awesome and the Terreno looks very fast and would also be awesome as a 2.35.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Vance72 said:


> A 2.35 Ron would be awesome and the Terreno looks very fast and would also be awesome as a 2.35.


When I lined up with the Terreno 2.2, I got looks like I have a death wish, but it actually has remarkable climbing traction. The Terreno is the best semi-slick IMO in that it's very low profile in the center but has the biggest cornering knobs, compared with the Aspen and Thunder Burt.

I'm working on center knob-lopping some new Barzo 2.35s with a tire groover-you can also use bonsai trimmers. Just mounted them yesterday and did a roll-down test. After turning them into semi-slicks I'll try again to see if it made a difference. Starting weight is 760g.


































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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> When I lined up with the Terreno 2.2, I got looks like I have a death wish, but it actually has remarkable climbing traction. The Terreno is the best semi-slick IMO in that it's very low profile in the center but has the biggest cornering knobs, compared with the Aspen and Thunder Burt.
> 
> I'm working on center knob-lopping some new Barzo 2.35s with a tire groover-you can also use bonsai trimmers. Just mounted them yesterday and did a roll-down test. After turning them into semi-slicks I'll try again to see if it made a difference. Starting weight is 760g.
> 
> ...


What sort of volume did the Terreno have? Did it come up large, small or true to size?

The tire loppers sound like a good idea. Do you measure and mark them first or do you eyeball it? I'm interested to hear how it goes with the Barzo.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

chomxxo said:


> When I lined up with the Terreno 2.2, I got looks like I have a death wish, but it actually has remarkable climbing traction. The Terreno is the best semi-slick IMO in that it's very low profile in the center but has the biggest cornering knobs, compared with the Aspen and Thunder Burt.
> 
> I'm working on center knob-lopping some new Barzo 2.35s with a tire groover-you can also use bonsai trimmers. Just mounted them yesterday and did a roll-down test. After turning them into semi-slicks I'll try again to see if it made a difference. Starting weight is 760g.
> 
> ...


Let us know the final weight and the roll down test results.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Vance72 said:


> What sort of volume did the Terreno have? Did it come up large, small or true to size?
> 
> The tire loppers sound like a good idea. Do you measure and mark them first or do you eyeball it? I'm interested to hear how it goes with the Barzo.


You could lop knobs, or you could just buy Rekon Race and go train another hour on the bike and not waste your time 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

FJSnoozer said:


> You could lop knobs, or you could just buy Rekon Race and go train another hour on the bike and not waste your time
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hear what you say. I could always use an extra hours training. Fun though to experiment with tire lopping. The Barzo once it's lopped should have better shoulder knobs for cornering compared to the Rekon Race.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Lopped the tires today, took about 15 minutes per tire. Sorry been busy at work and it's been raining, had to ride the trainer. Will let you all know how it goes this weekend. 

The Rekon Race is not a bad tire, but I already own the Aspen and it's a pretty nice tire. Some of us race in the fast 40+ cat 1, not the slow 30 year old group, so we have to use every advantage


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> Lopped the tires today, took about 15 minutes per tire. Sorry been busy at work and it's been raining, had to ride the trainer. Will let you all know how it goes this weekend.
> 
> The Rekon Race is not a bad tire, but I already own the Aspen and it's a pretty nice tire. Some of us race in the fast 40+ cat 1, not the slow 30 year old group, so we have to use every advantage


I'm in the fast 40+ group too. Only I'm not that fast and we don't have categories so I am usually well beaten in my age group. Problem is the 50+ don't seem to slow down much if any.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

chomxxo said:


> Lopped the tires today, took about 15 minutes per tire. Sorry been busy at work and it's been raining, had to ride the trainer. Will let you all know how it goes this weekend.
> 
> The Rekon Race is not a bad tire, but I already own the Aspen and it's a pretty nice tire. Some of us race in the fast 40+ cat 1, not the slow 30 year old group, so we have to use every advantage


Good luck this weekend. This will be the only race I miss.

Don't worry, I'll be 40 soon enough and you can chase me, Rich and Barrett around. 

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Allright, the tests are in on the Barzo 2.35 roll-down test. *TLDR; summary*: they are now each 30g lighter and rolled 25-41ft farther over a ~1/4 mile test.

*The details*:

I did 5 roll-down tests each, before and after lopping the knobs. I ended up lopping the knobs with a bonsai trimmer because the cheap tire groover's tip didn't get hot enough, though it did melt my linoleum garage tile, lol. As stated, it only took about 15 minutes per tire, they came off cleanly and quickly. The weight loss of 30g per tire (60g total) is nothing to write home about, although I do think it brings a 2.35 closer to a competitive weight with my 2.25 Addix Rocket Rons (now 720g vs 630g).

The test was an asphalt hill of ~1/4 mile. ~1/8 of the hill was steep, the rest was false flat or flat in which I rolled to a stop and marked it. An unplanned factor was the wind: although it wasn't strong, I did have a light headwind at times both before and after, which spread some of the results. I scoffed at aero in XC but perhaps it's really a factor--a test for another day. Both tests were identical in setup, 30psi for both, because it was on asphalt and also because they were newly-setup tubeless.

The roll down tests after were consistently farther, at least 25ft with two tests coming in around 41ft farther. This was measured by toe-to-toeing it and then measuring the length of my foot, so not scientific, but an eye test clearly proved the advantage.

I also like how it squares off the tread. I believe in wider rims but I don't believe in "wide right." I have some heavy 39mm internal trail wheels in addition to my light 30.5mm carbon rims, and I just think the wider you go, the more volume and cornering control that you get, but that's a test for another day as well 

To answer a previous question: I do like the *Terreno 2.2*. I raced it mostly using old Valor rims which are 21mm internal, and it measured only 2.1" wide after extensive use. Perhaps a wider rim would give it more volume, but I believe a 2.35 would be killer in this model. Until then, the Barzos are my mullet tire: all business down the middle, party in the corners


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

I ran 2.35 Mezcals front and rear for the first time on my singlespeed at an extremely technical 50k the weekend before last. I felt like they were excellent in both rolling resistance and grip and will use them at the upcoming Trans-Sylvania Epic Stage Race in PA in a couple of weeks.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

It's a Sad day for Rocket Ron lovers. The new protected Ron is over 100 grams heavier.

New batch of tires just arrived. Some are the old Compound, some are the new Super Ground which is the Addix Snakeskin Evo replacement. I think that anyone who runs schwalbe tires because they are a light weight race tire will likely be switching to a different brand. Even the super race, which are the lite skin replacements are extremely heavy for tire without sidewall protection, so I don't even want to see what the new super ground 2.35 race tires weigh. I recon they will all be 750-820 grams. At least our wheelset a are getting lighter 

Racing Ray 2.35 Addix evo SS 
Weight 673, 677, and 721

Racing Ray 2.25 Addix Evo SS 
Weight 628 and 650

Racing Ralph 2.35 Addix Evo SS 
Weight 691g

Here we go with new compounds:

Racing Ralph 2.25 Super Ground 
Weight 733g. (That's right 733 for a 2.25 schwalbe race tire)

Rocket Ron 2.25 Super ground 
Weight 694 and 740g!

For reference, my past 10 rocket rom Addix all weighs between 596 and 605g. The sidewall feels thicker and had a different texture. I have not blown it up on a rim yet, but putting the carcass side by side with a 2.25 Ralph, it's still a much smaller volume tire than its brethren.


















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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

Thats a real shame! Glad I stocked up on a couple of pairs of old Rons on sale... Speedgrip SS at 662g and Speed LD at 515g


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

Thanks for the info FJSmoozer. That bicycle rolling resistance site rates the puncture resistance of the transparent skin Racing Ralph quite high. He gave it a score of 28 and an older Rickey Ron snakeskin was rated at 20. Higher is better. Apparently the casing on the old Ron’s was quite thin. 

I personally never had any problems with Rocket Ron in snakeskin.

The transparent skin Schwalbes have walls that are 3 x 67 tpi and are much tougher than the old lite skin.

Im disappointed by the weights too and will pronbably use a transparent skin Racing Ray and Racing Ralph. I have been pretty lucky with lack of flats and don’t ride super rocky areas but every one else’s mileage may vary.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

The Mezcal TNT at 708 grams (at least that's what mine weigh) isn't looking so bad now. They are also true to size. The Aspens also have more puncture resistance than these Schwalbes and come in at only 650g for the 2.25s.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> The Mezcal TNT at 708 grams (at least that's what mine weigh) isn't looking so bad now. They are also true to size. The Aspens also have more puncture resistance than these Schwalbes and come in at only 650g for the 2.25s.


I have to say, Aspen 2.25s are huge compared to a rocket Ron. And larger than most 2.25s out there. I also have had nothing but success with them. I think I only got one pluggable puncture in months of riding in Bentonville razor rocks. I retired the tire looking like this...

Although I am sticking with my Rekon races. Heavier, but a faster tire all around for me. Better Cornering/braking, same rolling. Mine are all 670-700.










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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Looks like you got your money's worth out of that Aspen. I have to say that I was entirely unimpressed with the Aspen as a rear tire (fast wear, crappy braking, average climbing, unanticipated drifting when braking, not very compliant), but I have been really impressed with it as a front tire. I've had one on the front for over a year and the grip is still pretty decent. It certainly likes to be leaned over with those big side knobs.

And like you, I've found them to be pretty durable even on rocky trails. I had one or two punctures that sealed immediately, but no rips or cuts.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

as mentioned before, the new Fast Traks and Renegades are out in time for the olympics:








Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5 | Specialized.com


The Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5 has become synonymous with fast and lightweight tires that are able to handle the most technical courses and the most grueling conditions. This model redefines what was thought possible with a cross-country tread design. Our Block-In-Block design uses a...




www.specialized.com













Renegade Control 2Bliss Ready T5 | Specialized.com


The Renegade Control 2Bliss Ready T5 is perfect for fast accelerations, climbing in hard-pack terrain and podium finishes. Our fastest-rolling cross-country tread receives an elevated shoulder height to confidently carry speed through turns. Our Block-In-Block design uses a taller adaptable...




www.specialized.com





Fast Trak looks like a Barzo/X King maybe a little shorter. Not sure about the new shoulder blocks on the renegades, anybody running these yet care to comment?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Thanks for posting. I'd be really interested in the weight of these tires. Spesh tires are usually 50-75 grams over the claimed weight. Nice too that they held the price constant.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Bikerumor just did a preview of these tires. The Control Fast Trak measured 2.31 and weighs 670g. Not bad if this ends up being representative of the version we get off the shelf. 








Specialized XC Tires get new block-in-block treads for Renegade, Fast Trak & Ground Control


Ready, set, race! Specialized' new XC tire lineup features updated tread patterns, rubber compounds, and casings for all out speed.




bikerumor.com


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## akmtnrunner (Dec 12, 2020)

I just took off a 2.4 XR3 from the rear that came with my new Top Fuel and replaced it with a 2.25 Mezcal. I can certainly say the Mezcal is noticeably bit faster on hard surfaces (pavement and hard pack) but I can't say with as much confidence it is so in the softer and mixed dirt. All dry condition so far this summer. The XR3 might have the suppleness edge though making for a smoother ride. No issue with either traction wise in the dry condition except for in loose deep gravel, which any xc tire would have issues with.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

Also new Schwalbe downcountry tire could be a good setup in that tweener use case some of us are in between XCO hardpack and back country gnar. I think other brands might be working on tires in this space as well...



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-schwalbes-new-wicked-will-tires.html


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

pinkpowa said:


> Also new Schwalbe downcountry tire could be a good setup in that tweener use case some of us are in between XCO hardpack and back country gnar. I think other brands might be working on tires in this space as well...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-schwalbes-new-wicked-will-tires.html


A 900 gram tire is not something that I'll be interested on any XC bike.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

tick_magnet said:


> A 900 gram tire is not something that I'll be interested on any XC bike.


I'm not sure what the hell Scwalbe are up to these days... I've always used them in my short cycling career as it's what the locals use, but these new tyres are just plain madness.

'Sits between the racing ralph and the nobby nic'... so that's a Rocket Ron then.

'810g for a super race'... so that's a Rocket Ron that ate half of another tyre.

Mind boggling. When I've exhausted my supply of old Rons, I'll definitely find a new brand.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

tick_magnet said:


> A 900 gram tire is not something that I'll be interested on any XC bike.


Agreed, but on the other hand a Schwalbe is not something I'll ever run on my XC bike after all the failures I've had (unless someone is giving me a new pair every race). Least durable brand in my experience, so maybe they've beefed them up to usable levels and that's the weight increase?


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

pinkpowa said:


> Agreed, but on the other hand a Schwalbe is not something I'll ever run on my XC bike after all the failures I've had (unless someone is giving me a new pair every race). Least durable brand in my experience, so maybe they've beefed them up to usable levels and that's the weight increase?


Never had a single puncture on my superlight Rons in 3 years... but to be fair the local terrain is not littered with shark rocks.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

pinkpowa said:


> Agreed, but on the other hand a Schwalbe is not something I'll ever run on my XC bike after all the failures I've had (unless someone is giving me a new pair every race). Least durable brand in my experience, so maybe they've beefed them up to usable levels and that's the weight increase?


Agree. But still, there has to be a more efficient way to get puncture protection without adding half a pound to a tire. I've had very few problems with my 650g Aspen Exos and Renegade Controls.


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## akmtnrunner (Dec 12, 2020)

Schawalbe's strategy here is questionable. They have a successful niche in the market and loyal followers. To cease their greatest competitive angle and offer what many other companies already do is . . . interesting.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I've never tried Specialized tires. Thoughts on running a 2.35" control casing Fast Trak front, Renegade rear? On a Blur Trail with the goal race of the year being Shenandoah Mountain 100k. Also, Annika Langvad has a good video about the new tires on her instagram reels.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

csteven71 said:


> I've never tried Specialized tires. Thoughts on running a 2.35" control casing Fast Trak front, Renegade rear? On a Blur Trail with the goal race of the year being Shenandoah Mountain 100k. Also, Annika Langvad has a good video about the new tires on her instagram reels.


I loved the old Renegade as a rear tire. Light, durable, tough and long wearing. I've got 1400 off road miles on mine as a rear tire and it refuses to wear out so I can try something new . I liked the Fast Trak too for the front though I like the Mezcal a tiny bit more.

That said, I haven't tried the new Fast Trak or Renegade yet and it seems like a pretty big redesign. I'm not sure why they made such a big change because I thought the old tires are pretty good. But XC bike geometry is changing fairly quickly so maybe the redesign is to be grippier to accommodate the more stable but worse cornering bikes?


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

pinkpowa said:


> Agreed, but on the other hand a Schwalbe is not something I'll ever run on my XC bike after all the failures I've had (unless someone is giving me a new pair every race). Least durable brand in my experience, so maybe they've beefed them up to usable levels and that's the weight increase?


I think/hope those days are in the past, I also know several guys who had to walk to the finish due to Schwalbe failures, but I heard that they were improved and bought a pair of Rocket Rons a year and half ago, and other than a flat because I didn't add enough sealant (nearly almost enough... - I had a puncture on that same course with Mezcals, but I had enough sealant that time) they have been great. They're light (610ish? in 2.25x29), and good in most conditions.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm running the Renegade/Fasttrak on my Anthem.
The longer and rockier the race, the more I'd be inclined to add CushCore XC or change from Control to Grid as the tyres are REALLY supple.

The rolling resistance is really low, but the rubber grip on rocks isn't up with Maxxis rubber levels.

The climbing traction is far above Ikon/Ardent Race levels.
I get a season out of a rear before climbing traction deteriorates even close to Ikon levels.
2 seasons at least from a front.



csteven71 said:


> I've never tried Specialized tires. Thoughts on running a 2.35" control casing Fast Trak front, Renegade rear? On a Blur Trail with the goal race of the year being Shenandoah Mountain 100k. Also, Annika Langvad has a good video about the new tires on her instagram reels.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

tick_magnet said:


> Looks like you got your money's worth out of that Aspen. I have to say that I was entirely unimpressed with the Aspen as a rear tire (fast wear, crappy braking, average climbing, unanticipated drifting when braking, not very compliant), but I have been really impressed with it as a front tire. I've had one on the front for over a year and the grip is still pretty decent. It certainly likes to be leaned over with those big side knobs.
> 
> And like you, I've found them to be pretty durable even on rocky trails. I had one or two punctures that sealed immediately, but no rips or cuts.


As a rear tire Aspens are amazing for the first 200km but once they get a bit of wear on them they have nothing. I have found seems to be case with all the low tread tires I have used over the years. Now I save my low tread tires as race day tire and just train on knobbier tires. Makes me feel like I have an extra gear on race day.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I just mounted up a 2.35 Specialized Control Fast Trak/Rengade Combo. They're measuring a hair over 2.25" on my 25 internal wheels. A bit disappointing as I was looking for something bigger than my 2.25/2.2 Rekon/Ikon setup. I'll give them a few rides but it's tempting to do a 2.4 Rekon/Aspen.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

csteven71 said:


> I just mounted up a 2.35 Specialized Control Fast Trak/Rengade Combo. They're measuring a hair over 2.25" on my 25 internal wheels. A bit disappointing as I was looking for something bigger than my 2.25/2.2 Rekon/Ikon setup. I'll give them a few rides but it's tempting to do a 2.4 Rekon/Aspen.


Did you weigh these new Fast Trak and Renegades? Just curious whether the actual weight exceeds claimed like the old ones. As for width, they will probably stretch. My Renegades started around 2.28 or something like that and are now at 2.34.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> Did you weigh these new Fast Trak and Renegades? Just curious whether the actual weight exceeds claimed like the old ones.


I did not weigh them. If I pull them off at some point I will. Specialized's 30 day return policy is pretty nice, going to at least run them for a bit and see how I like them.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Cool, let us know what you think of them. I loved the old ones - there is no way I would choose the Aspen (at least the 2.25 120tpi) over them but these new ones look like a major redesign.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> Cool, let us know what you think of them. I loved the old ones - there is no way I would choose the Aspen (at least the 2.25 120tpi) over them but these new ones look like a major redesign.


It'll be a good comparison. I like the 2.25 120tpi Aspen as a rear tire. Running it front and rear on my hardtail right now and it's wildly fast for the weird mixed use rides I do on that bike.


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## JeffHNY (Dec 22, 2020)

Been through testing a bunch of tires while I get my endurance up to speed. 6 months in after only riding recreationally about 25 years ago. I ride a hardtail that was a trail bike but converted to more XC by taking 2 deg from the headtube. Sits about 25lbs, so not too bad. On 29' x 27mm IW wheels. Anyways onto the tires. 

I ride on northeast gravelly and rooty trails. Not much elevation change. I noticed some people with wider tires were running pretty well at a local time trial. After testing 29 inch 2.25 Wolfpack race tires, 2.4 XR3, 2.35 Ray/Ralph combo and 2.6 trail tires I noticed there was a substantial difference in the speed I could carry with the 2.6 tires around corners and over the rough stuff. Being that those were 35% heavier I was on mission to find something lighter. Low and behold I noticed a recent UCI race (I think) was won with a rider on Kenda Booster Pro. I also noticed they had a 2.6. All I can say is it's the best purchase I've made for the bike, arguably outside of of the fox SC and a set of carbon wheels I built. The difference in levels of fatigue at the end of a TT is substantial as well as the gains in speed. Not the best climbers but do the job and there aren't many options in the size. So highly recommended for anyone who's running a hardtail and can fit them. Weight is 775 grams. R/R's were under 700 for reference.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> As for width, they will probably stretch. My Renegades started around 2.28 or something like that and are now at 2.34.


They measured 2.35 this morning. Nice.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I can't wait to try the brand new S-Works Fast Trak 2.35 on the front of my XC bike. It looks like it might provide better cornering traction than the old Fast Trak.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

That's a bold statement. I don't know your setup but I might take those 2 degrees back out of the old bike, 67* is the mode these days.

The lightest 29x2.6 I know of is the Bontrager XR2, 745 grams. I've tried one of those. Interesting experiment if you cared to time it vs your 2.2s -- 2.4s on your local loop and share the results.



JeffHNY said:


> Been through testing a bunch of tires while I get my endurance up to speed. 6 months in after only riding recreationally about 25 years ago. I ride a hardtail that was a trail bike but converted to more XC by taking 2 deg from the headtube. Sits about 25lbs, so not too bad. On 29' x 27mm IW wheels. Anyways onto the tires.
> 
> I ride on northeast gravelly and rooty trails. Not much elevation change. I noticed some people with wider tires were running pretty well at a local time trial. After testing 29 inch 2.25 Wolfpack race tires, 2.4 XR3, 2.35 Ray/Ralph combo and 2.6 trail tires I noticed there was a substantial difference in the speed I could carry with the 2.6 tires around corners and over the rough stuff. Being that those were 35% heavier I was on mission to find something lighter. Low and behold I noticed a recent UCI race (I think) was won with a rider on Kenda Booster Pro. I also noticed they had a 2.6. All I can say is it's the best purchase I've made for the bike, arguably outside of of the fox SC and a set of carbon wheels I built. The difference in levels of fatigue at the end of a TT is substantial as well as the gains in speed. Not the best climbers but do the job and there aren't many options in the size. So highly recommended for anyone who's running a hardtail and can fit them. Weight is 775 grams. R/R's were under 700 for reference.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Any other race king fan here?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

cycloholic said:


> Any other race king fan here?


Certainly. I use the 2.2 Race King Protection and they roll really fast.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Exactly!! 2.2 RK protection!! They do not advertising it so much like maxxis or Schwalbe do but I think is the tire to go for most of the cases in hardback! Fastest, lightest, super durable and with higher profile (although width is only 2.2) they are quite tall to help with extra damping.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Last time I used the Race King was the previous version around 2018. I really hated that tire because it was not compliant at all (I had it on a hardtail) and it bounced off of every trail imperfection. To be fair, I haven't tried the current version yet. Did they improve the compliance of the tire?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Well, it is a hard pack tire for XC. If you ride on loose over hard or wet, then is not the tire to recommend!


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

Anybody have any experience with Rekon Race 2.4wt vs Mezcal TNT 2.35? I'll be running them on rims with a 25 mm internal width. Typical eastern PA riding conditions.

I'm currently on 2.2 Ikons. Last year I was on 2.25 Aspens. No real preference between the two.

I have the Rekon Races already but my shop has the Mezcal's in stock and I could exchange the Rekons for them if I wanted to. Weight is about the same for both so that is not really an issue. Just looking for some opinions.

Thanks


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## dustmonkey (Dec 31, 2020)

I'm a big fan of the rekon/rekon race tires paired with dissector out front. Yes, the dissector is a lot of tire, but the additional confidence in loose-over-hard conditions proves out in my segment times. I dont have a strong preference between the rekon/rekonrace. I like them best when they are worn down almost to a slick in the middle with the knobs on the edges. Once you get used to managing your rear-end traction (lack of) in the climbs, and skiing the rear-end dh, this is a very fast setup. 

I prefer a 2.25/2.3 rear w/ a 2.4 front.

22lb hardtail w/ SC32 on either 23mm iw or 27mm iw wheels. IME tire profiles on 23mm are more fun, 27mm are faster.

Mezcal tires (not TNT) are the only ones that have flatted on me in years. Random bad luck probably, but I gave up on them.

Tire availability is hit and miss. I keep 2 spares of all my consumable items on-hand. Tires, sealant, pads, chains. When I use a pair, I order a pair, always keeping 1 in my garage. It takes all the urgency and compromise to get replacements out of the equation.

EDIT: Previous to the rekons I ran Ikons. IMO the Rekon is a superior tire.



Mucker said:


> Anybody have any experience with Rekon Race 2.4wt vs Mezcal TNT 2.35? I'll be running them on rims with a 25 mm internal width. Typical eastern PA riding conditions.
> 
> I'm currently on 2.2 Ikons. Last year I was on 2.25 Aspens. No real preference between the two.
> 
> ...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Glad to have found this thread.

I'm a tire nerd for certain but usually on the AM side of bikes but I'm now building a weight weenie Spur for the local XC & trail rides. I want the new (projected) 24# Spur to be fast, real fast and I've never had this style of bike nor tires.

Even on the AM side of the equation in very rocky conditions, I feel people go with too much tire most of the time and I find I can run a bit faster tires and still go quite fast with few downsides. Heck, I once mounted a Mezcal on the rear of my AM bike and really found the traction acceptable and with the low rolling resistance I was able to fly pretty good. BTW, I'm a heck of a fan of Vittoria, Schwalbe, & Tioga tires.

As such, I don't think I'll need the highest traction for this XC/ trail application even though I'll take what I can get. So I started off by ordering the new Ray 2.35 / Ralph 2.25 combo as a starting point. Rims are 29mm ID front & 26mm ID rear, when they are completed. Would add that if the weight is in the 700-800 gram range that would make me a bit more comfortable than a weight in the 650 gram range as it's very rocky here and I hate walking a bike out.

What tires would you guys recommend to go one step further in the 'trail' direction or for me to try next? Was thinking Barzo/ Mezcal.

Please advise.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Glad to have found this thread.
> 
> I'm a tire nerd for certain but usually on the AM side of bikes but I'm now building a weight weenie Spur for the local XC & trail rides. I want the new (projected) 24# Spur to be fast, real fast and I've never had this style of bike nor tires.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not,

Magic Mary front, Nobby nick rear. Try to find the older snakeskin evo ones if you can.

Magic Mary's of old came in at 900 grams even. Nobby nics we're all 750-850. This combo is plenty fast and super fun.

This combo is far better than a minion/aggressor combo or other such trail combos. I could race many races on that setup and it actually rolls fast on pavement. It's my preferred combo in Sedona. We actually have it on an Sworks enduro for my wife. 36IW Nox wheels!

I have not tried the new Hams Dampf, but is use to like it a lot as a front. The MAgic Mary seems as fast and has more grip at the limit. It transitions way faster to the shoulder than a minion which has a dead spot.

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions. 
I do have experience with both of those tires and although they have some desirable qualities and don't roll terrible, they both have too much void to work particular well where this bike will be operated, basically on rocky hard pack. 
Also, want something more to the light fast trail side of the equation. 

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The Barzo 2.35 is perfect for hero dirt and mud and has won world champs in those conditions.

I seem to remember you're in Arizona? Like in West Texas (real West Texas, like Big Bend or El Paso), I'd never go out with anything less than a 2.35 with sidewall protection. The Mezcal is a good shot for dry desert conditions, but I'd suggest that you wouldn't want a 2.25 rear--the extra volume of wide tires will smooth your ride and make you faster than all the deflection from smaller tires.

Now if you really wanted to try something interesting, try a 2.6 (They make a Mezcal in this size):






Comparison of Four 29×2.6″ Tires | FAT-BIKE.COM







fat-bike.com





It would be interesting to race the epic El Paso Puzzler marathon on Mezcal 2.6s, I think the reduction of deflection would be worth it, even with a ton of steep climbs and altitude.



Suns_PSD said:


> Glad to have found this thread.
> 
> I'm a tire nerd for certain but usually on the AM side of bikes but I'm now building a weight weenie Spur for the local XC & trail rides. I want the new (projected) 24# Spur to be fast, real fast and I've never had this style of bike nor tires.
> 
> ...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm in Austin TX.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Ah ok, easy going there 



Suns_PSD said:


> I'm in Austin TX.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> I do have experience with both of those tires and although they have some desirable qualities and don't roll terrible, they both have too much void to work particular well where this bike will be operated, basically on rocky hard pack.
> Also, want something more to the light fast trail side of the equation.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


I have a 140mm bike that I have setup more on the XC side of trail. I fave been quite happy with a 2.4 Rekon on the front and 2.35 Ikon on the rear. I like the way the bike balances with that combination.

the 2.4 Rekon with the EXO+ casing is a good all around tire


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## claystrick (Nov 13, 2008)

tick_magnet said:


> Looks like you got your money's worth out of that Aspen. I have to say that I was entirely unimpressed with the Aspen as a rear tire (fast wear, crappy braking, average climbing, unanticipated drifting when braking, not very compliant), but I have been really impressed with it as a front tire. I've had one on the front for over a year and the grip is still pretty decent. It certainly likes to be leaned over with those big side knobs.
> 
> And like you, I've found them to be pretty durable even on rocky trails. I had one or two punctures that sealed immediately, but no rips or cuts.


Yea I've found the same for Aspen in the rear. Very quick wear. I have found the Aspen 2.4 in the front works great tho.
I'll prob try Icon or Recon in the rear.

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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> I do have experience with both of those tires and although they have some desirable qualities and don't roll terrible, they both have too much void to work particular well where this bike will be operated, basically on rocky hard pack.
> Also, want something more to the light fast trail side of the equation.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Well I live on the Greenbelt. What you really need to try is a forkaster FR. That combo hooks better than most everything in our two conditions 1. blown out, loose and dusty AF 2. Wet limestone. They will hands down save you ass on wet limestone. Also, if you ride black dirt like SATN, and peddlers pass, the forekaster knobs really fight and dig hard when it gets to that scorched earth cracking phase. Far better than the Nic hooks. Sorry I forgot you were in Austin when you asked.

I basically have the same style bike ( 2020 top fuel) as my Daily. It's 22.5 pounds with Rekon Race 2.35s. 
The side knobs are plenty for me. Ive transitions my rigid and the top fuel to those tires after much experimentation. I am running the tan wall 60tpi and they are super reliable.

When I just want the most grip which is fitting for that bike, I go forekaster FR. It gives me a stupid level of climbing traction on the dusty rock ledges. The only real downside is the casing is not high volume. It gets its width from the tread.

Other options: The forekaster/ Rekon race combo is nice and very quick. What I have not tried yet is the Rekon/Rekon race combo. I also don't have a wide enough wheel to try a forekaster 2.6.

My typical rides are a 30 mile GB ride hitting the good stuff. Nightly rides long training rides to Walnut, Ken's/jester, occasional brushy, lakeway and race laps on Georgetown.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Well I live on the Greenbelt. What you really need to try is a forkaster FR. That combo hooks better than most everything in our two conditions 1. blown out, loose and dusty AF 2. Wet limestone. They will hands down save you ass on wet limestone. Also, if you ride black dirt like SATN, and peddlers pass, the forekaster knobs really fight and dig hard when it gets to that scorched earth cracking phase. Far better than the Nic hooks. Sorry I forgot you were in Austin when you asked.
> 
> I basically have the same style bike ( 2020 top fuel) as my Daily. It's 22.5 pounds with Rekon Race 2.35s.
> The side knobs are plenty for me. Ive transitions my rigid and the top fuel to those tires after much experimentation. I am running the tan wall 60tpi and they are super reliable.
> ...


Can't speak, obviously, for your terrain. Although I really like the Forecaster, I find the casing to be pretty thin and vulnerable to tears.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> Well I live on the Greenbelt. What you really need to try is a forkaster FR. That combo hooks better than most everything in our two conditions 1. blown out, loose and dusty AF 2. Wet limestone. They will hands down save you ass on wet limestone. Also, if you ride black dirt like SATN, and peddlers pass, the forekaster knobs really fight and dig hard when it gets to that scorched earth cracking phase. Far better than the Nic hooks. Sorry I forgot you were in Austin when you asked.
> 
> I basically have the same style bike ( 2020 top fuel) as my Daily. It's 22.5 pounds with Rekon Race 2.35s.
> The side knobs are plenty for me. Ive transitions my rigid and the top fuel to those tires after much experimentation. I am running the tan wall 60tpi and they are super reliable.
> ...


Heck, we are practically neighbors. I live in Shady Hollow about 10 minutes South of the GB and ride many of the same trails you do. Surprised we haven't ridden together and we should get together. I just resigned from 1 position I held and my previously insane schedule has just opened up, a lot. Where do you start at typically? I often start behind Specs, the old Toys-r-Us, or at TC.

My intention is to ride my Evo for most of the fun offshoots of the GB and use the new Spur at SATN (which I can access from my home) and other smoother rides with my family, including probably Bentonville.

I think it's rad that you have a 22.5# trail bike and I'm certain you can move real well on it. I don't do 30 GB miles, not on my Evo. Those are tough miles! For me, not sure I want to try my hardest on Rudy's Shoot (for example) on my WW Spur. Also tire issues are real on those trails, and tires that survive those conditions under clumsy me, I feel will make the Spur a lot less lively which isn't what I'm looking for.

As far as the Maxxis recommendations, I will definitely check them out. Thanks for the knowledgeable suggestions. That said I've found I really prefer the compounds (if not the patterns) of Continental/ Schwalbe/ Vittoria tires so I tend to lean towards those products these days.

What other tires have you tested for your really fast trail bike?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> Can't speak, obviously, for your terrain. Although I really like the Forecaster, I find the casing to be pretty thin and vulnerable to tears.


I have found to be true at race pace only when pressures are too low. For riding it doesn't matter because I just dynaplug everything in seconds. It is much more prone to pinch flats when on narrow wheels that punch right on the gap between the transition lugs. I triple flatted the tire as a rear in two races and one was my only XC DNF ever because I was out of air. I do flat a lot less than most, but I have thousands of miles on tens of forekasters at this point.

I Have torn. like 1-2 sidewalls in my life. One I swear was a hidden metal shank in a homeless camp! I don't ride between objects much and that helps.

I just really have no issues with Exo anywhere. Austin/Bentonville/Sedona are my stomping grounds. Austin limestone is a little polished, but it tends to get people just like other places.

One of my favorite races is on Lake Georgetown which has 50 miles of this:










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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Heck, we are practically neighbors. I live in Shady Hollow about 10 minutes South of the GB and ride many of the same trails you do. Surprised we haven't ridden together and we should get together. I just resigned from 1 position I held and my previously insane schedule has just opened up, a lot. Where do you start at typically? I often start behind Specs, the old Toys-r-Us, or at TC.
> 
> My intention is to ride my Evo for most of the fun offshoots of the GB and use the new Spur at SATN (which I can access from my home) and other smoother rides with my family, including probably Bentonville.
> 
> ...


I'm technically downtown, and pop in at zilker entrance.

I would definitely try a Forekaster, Rekon race 2.35 combo and see how you like it on SATN. I mis understood and though you wanted a more aggressive combo for the 120 bike.

Ive run Schwalbe NN HD, MM. my wife is on the Ray/Ralph 2.35 combo and is loving it. She shreds every ride I do. She is loving the traction of the ralph on the rear (far more than the Nic she says) she was cursing the Nic in that wet season we just had. Meanwhile I was forekasters and cleaning everything. It took much convincing to get her to try the 2.35 ralph since she had been on either a 2.25 Nic or Ron for the past 3 years at all times. We have had heated arguments over it  not sure is LMN experiences this?

When I'm Sedona, I've gone to a Mary/Nic combo or a Minion2.5/(2.3 aggressor or 2.4 ardent rear). The ardent is what we all know it is. I hate the aggressor. It's slow, heavy, doesn't hook and is highly overrated. I find the forekaster to not grip well in NM high desert or alpine kitty litter. Next trip I'll try a minion/Rekon tanwall combo.

Ive also tried:
Aspens: don't brake well enough for bombing the greenbelt side trails, they are fine and reliable for me in Bentonville. 
XR2: old and new design. It's a poorly designed narrower version of the recon race. 
Teravail ehline skinwall. Far lighter than advertised, waaay narrower than advertised. Vague and too thin on the sidewall for my liking and for riding in Bentonville. We spend many weeks there each year.

They all survived the greenbelt for me. In 200 rides, I've rarely had an issue with tires there. Pinch flatted one forekaster bombing Jedi, and a tear under the bridge in sweet 16 due to broken glass or a bum's shank. 

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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I guess they are preparing something at Continental.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> I have found to be true at race pace only when pressures are too low. For riding it doesn't matter because I just dynaplug everything in seconds. It is much more prone to pinch flats when on narrow wheels that punch right on the gap between the transition lugs. I triple flatted the tire as a rear in two races and one was my only XC DNF ever because I was out of air. I do flat a lot less than most, but I have thousands of miles on tens of forekasters at this point.
> 
> I Have torn. like 1-2 sidewalls in my life. One I swear was a hidden metal shank in a homeless camp! I don't ride between objects much and that helps.


Man, I have probably torn 20 sidewalls in my life. It is so common around here. We just have some trails that have razor blade rocks on them. There was one trails that I actually stopped riding all together, good trail but after destroying 4 tires in a 6 week period I decided it wasn't worth it.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I saw on instagram that Kerry Warner is testing new Maxxis tires. Curious what they are.


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## BradOlsen84 (Jul 15, 2013)

cycloholic said:


> I guess they are preparing something at Continental.
> View attachment 1937424


Ohh man, Hope that's a fast rolling with good side knobs for a front tire. I love the RaceKings but on the front its pretty sketch here in BC's dust bowl.

Anyone have any suggestions on their favorite front tire in dry and dusty trails?

B


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

BradOlsen84 said:


> Ohh man, Hope that's a fast rolling with good side knobs for a front tire. I love the RaceKings but on the front its pretty sketch here in BC's dust bowl.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on their favorite front tire in dry and dusty trails?
> 
> B


I've recently tried the current/updated version of the Race King (Protection). They do hook up far better than the old version, it seems shortening the intermediate knobs has helped a bunch, but they still can struggle on dry/dusty trails.

Once I added Rimpact inserts tand aired down the front to 16 PSI, it impressed me with great grip in everything but mud, I'm really quite impressed. I run the rear at 21 PSI, I WAS able to flat the tire but I was trying really, really hard to flat so I knew the limit...and it took quite a lot. The somewhat narrow (true) 2.2" width is a bit off-putting, but it really doesn't negatively impact the ride once I added the inserts.

I've set a number of PRs on these including some very technical trails, and my fitness is terrible right now. However, I'd like to see an updated front with the cornering knobs moved further out on the casing to better grip at really high lean angles for rock solid confidence...it looks like Pidcock may be riding something like that in the picture above.


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)

2.2 xr1 rear. 2.6xr2 front. Chromag samurai. Dry hard pack.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BradOlsen84 said:


> Ohh man, Hope that's a fast rolling with good side knobs for a front tire. I love the RaceKings but on the front its pretty sketch here in BC's dust bowl.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on their favorite front tire in dry and dusty trails?
> 
> B


Ardent Race works really well in these anti-grip conditions we have right now. Well, at least as well as a tire can work. That or an Assegai.


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## Rikidc (May 30, 2010)

cycloholic said:


> I guess they are preparing something at Continental.
> View attachment 1937424


sorry for the off topic, but where is fork lockout cable coming from?


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## Gawdzilla (Sep 23, 2020)

Hey, Not race tires yet, but looking for some advice in general for faster tires. My bike came with 2.35 Forekaster F/R. I may keep one for the front but would like something faster for the rear and maybe front as well. I was looking at a 2.35 Rekon Race for the rear and perhaps F/R but not sure about that. I was also looking at the new Renegade and Fast Track Combo from Specialized, however they do not seem to be available where I am as of yet. I would prefer to stick with a 2.3-2.4 width

Where I ride (southern Ontario) is for most of the year very dry to slightly tacky with a fair amount of rocks and roots. Most trails are not used in muddy wet conditions so I rarely need to be concerned with a tire that excels in those conditions, or if I really can just put the Forekasters back on..

Honestly the more I read the more confused I get as there is just to much info out there..

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated, Cheers


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I would try the new Fast Trak, Renegade or a Mezcal. I've never tried the Rekon Race but I'm not all that impressed with the Aspen. I haven't tried the new Schwalbes but they seem really heavy even without sidewall protection. Another tire I was unimpressed with is the Race King. Really fast on asphalt but not so fast on rooty singletrack because it bounced so much.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Gawdzilla, a fastracks rear pairs up nicely to a forecaster front. It is a good, fun combination to ride. Barzo is even more fun with the forecaster front but in my experience is it's flat prone

Evolution Training Cycles


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Gawdzilla said:


> Hey, Not race tires yet, but looking for some advice in general for faster tires. My bike came with 2.35 Forekaster F/R. I may keep one for the front but would like something faster for the rear and maybe front as well. I was looking at a 2.35 Rekon Race for the rear and perhaps F/R but not sure about that.


I'd go to a 2.4 Rekon as the next step. A Forekaster to a Rekon Race is a huge jump. The Rekon is in the middle.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Hey guys, purchased $180 worth of Schwalbes best but realized they are probably a bit to XC race for my new DC build. Although I have to say that Mike Levy was hauling ass on them in the cross-country/ down country shootout on PB..
Front is a Racing Ray Super Trail 29 x 2.35 & the rear is a Racing Ralph Super Trailv29 x 2.25.
$130 shipped for the pair, lower 48 states.
















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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

Did Oramm this yeah, super hot with a few downpours mixed in. Rode Vittoria Mezcal 2.6 front 19psi and Rekon 2.4 rear 22PSI. I'm around 230 and had zero issues with flats or the roots on Heartbreak. The combo is probably a tad slower than my normal Mezcal F/R combo, but I wanted a tire I completely trust on rear.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I put my Mezcals back on the fs bike, 29x2.25, they are fast!, quite a bit heavier than the Rocket Rons I had on there (mezcals are appx. 730g ea, but with a pretty robust sidewall). I really like the Mezcal in dry.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Very tempted by a Mezcal/Barzo combo but difficult to find Barzo's over here.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

The 2.35 mezcals are usually within 10g of the 2.25 Mezcals in my experience, but definitely blow up bigger. something to consider.


jimPacNW said:


> I put my Mezcals back on the fs bike, 29x2.25, they are fast!, quite a bit heavier than the Rocket Rons I had on there (mezcals are appx. 730g ea, but with a pretty robust sidewall). I really like the Mezcal in dry.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I really like my 2.25 Mezcals. Decent weight at 708g and I'm always positively surprised by my Strava times with them. They also feel really well damped in the front. You can feel them give a little on trail chatter and maintain traction rather than bounce and lose traction. The Fast Traks and Mezcals are my favorite front tires for their compliance and ability to stay glued to the ground when hitting small roots and loose sticks on the trail.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, purchased $180 worth of Schwalbes best but realized they are probably a bit to XC race for my new DC build. Although I have to say that Mike Levy was hauling ass on them in the cross-country/ down country shootout on PB..
> Front is a Racing Ray Super Trail 29 x 2.35 & the rear is a Racing Ralph Super Trailv29 x 2.25.
> $130 shipped for the pair, lower 48 states.
> View attachment 1941193
> ...


My wife is loving that combo on her epic in the Greenbelt. She likes the climbing traction of the Ralph over the Nobby Nic.

I would go with a 2.35 rear though for your application and float on the rocks.

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> My wife is loving that combo on her epic in the Greenbelt. She likes the climbing traction of the Ron over the Nobby Nic.
> 
> I would go with a 2.35 rear though for your application and float on the rocks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If they don't sell they will be fun as heck to test out and compare the speed difference to some other tires.
If buying again, maybe I'd buy the 2.35. The thinking was that this set up was for ultimate speed though, and this should be it. However the bead to bead measurement (tires spread flat while uninstalled) between the 2.25 & 2.35 I have on the shelf is only 3/16" difference so pretty small.

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## JeffHNY (Dec 22, 2020)

chomxxo said:


> That's a bold statement. I don't know your setup but I might take those 2 degrees back out of the old bike, 67* is the mode these days.
> 
> The lightest 29x2.6 I know of is the Bontrager XR2, 745 grams. I've tried one of those. Interesting experiment if you cared to time it vs your 2.2s -- 2.4s on your local loop and share the results.


Sorry for the late reply. Bike is a 2021 model, trail bike. Hit up some mountains out west the past month and it was sokid. If I lived out there a hardtail wouldn't even be a consideration for Colorado and Utah. For local riding the steeper angle is needed. I'd take more if I could get it.

I have a XR2 2.5 in a 27.5 that I tested in the rear. That size gives me the 2 deg extra slack back plus the lower MOI for general trail rides. Similar climbing to the Kenda with maybe a slight advantage in loose over hard climbing but the Kenda has better cornering. I'd bet it would be close time wise between both tires in same sizes on hardpack but Kenda wins for anything else. The XR3 has the XR2 center tread but is slightly heavier so reasonable testing has been done. A full suspension bike may have different results than I.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I've ridden over 400 authentic trail miles on my set of Kenda Booster Pro 2.4 29" tires. I'm into the idea that a fast rolling tire as well as a grippy tire needs a flexible casing and the Booster Pro has that. And low and behold -- it rolls insanely fast but still has plenty of traction (for climbing) and corners well due to the knobs. In corners it has a very controllable drift, something I'm not usually comfortable doing but with these tires it just works, so I'm willing push harder into corners. I absolutely roll faster on these tires than I did on the predecessor Schwalbe Racing Ray (front) and Racing Ralph (rear) combo -- I roll away from people now on downhills that I wasn't before. I have the tubeless ready versions without the extra sidewall protection (remember, flexible casing means lower rolling resistance) and they weighed 625 and 630 grams. They've resisted punctures and sidewall damage as well as any tire I've used, riding in the Rocky Mountains and sagebrush-shard-armed prairies of the intermountain west. I had been using PTN R-Evolution rim protection in the Schwalbes and initially set up the Booster Pros without them. But after a 100 miles I added the rim protector to the rear rim so I could run the rear at the PSI I wanted without banging the rim or folding the tire in hard corners -- works like a charm! Don't miss the rim protection in the front as I can run the psi I want without banging the rim or folding the tire in hard corners.

And they're very competitively priced (~$65 a tire).

But if it matters to you (and in the end it didn't matter to me) these tires on a 24 mm internal width rim are most definitely not 2.4", but rather 2.2" even after several weeks being inflated.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

New S Works 2.35 Fast Traks, 640g, 60mm on 29mm rims. Very impressed with grip and rolling, a good improvement from the previous version.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Salbutamol bass said:


> New S Works 2.35 Fast Traks, 640g, 60mm on 29mm rims. Very impressed with grip and rolling, a good improvement from the previous version.


So it grips better in the corners than the previous version? I'm interested in it as a front tire to go with my Renegade in the rear.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Stonerider said:


> So it grips better in the corners than the previous version? I'm interested in it as a front tire to go with my Renegade in the rear.


Yes


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Having ridden 2.25 aspens for a few years i'm eager to try something new.

For front tyre i've been looking 
*new S-works fastrak 2.35 with 615g claimed weight
* Conti Cross king racesport 2.2 or 2.3 with 565g and 675g weights

and for rear 
*new renegade control 2.35 with 645g claimed weight
*conti raceking protection 2.2 with 615g weight

Have heard some mixed reviews about conti tyres, looks like the "older" models weren't really supple altough being 180tpi and have heard horror storries of leaking sealant and so on, but what about the newer models ?

Specialized new range seems to be very competitive,very few reviews out there but everybody says new fast trak is really good tyre, not so good reviews on the renegade on the other hand ?


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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

I’m 90% I’ll be running Mezcal 2.6f and 2.35 rear at Marji this year. They quickly are becoming my favorite tire on my SS! If the weather looks nasty I’ll probably run 2.4 Rekon rear. The Mezcal just rolls so fast to me.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> Have heard some mixed reviews about conti tyres, looks like the "older" models weren't really supple altough being 180tpi and have heard horror storries of leaking sealant and so on, but what about the newer models ?
> 
> Specialized new range seems to be very competitive,very few reviews out there but everybody says new fast trak is really good tyre, not so good reviews on the renegade on the other hand ?


Both of the new World Champion XCC (short track) Gold medal winners, Blevins and Sina, were running the new Renegade tires. I guess they are fast enough for a 20 minute race in dry conditions. You're conditions may vary. I've been running the last generation 2.3 Renegade Control on the rear of my hardtail and love it. I tried a 2.4 Aspen but it was a lot heavier and did not spin up as fast so I took it off after about a month and went back to the Renegade. I just bought to new 2.35 Renegade Control to have ready once my 2.3 finally wears out. I can't wait to try it out.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Stonerider said:


> Both of the new World Champion XCC (short track) Gold medal winners, Blevins and Sina, were running the new Renegade tires. I guess they are fast enough for a 20 minute race in dry conditions. You're conditions may vary. I've been running the last generation 2.3 Renegade Control on the rear of my hardtail and love it. I tried a 2.4 Aspen but it was a lot heavier and did not spin up as fast so I took it off after about a month and went back to the Renegade. I just bought to new 2.35 Renegade Control to have ready once my 2.3 finally wears out. I can't wait to try it out.


With fast trak in front it looks to be a setup to ride all season, renegade up front may be too slick for some races ?

Did you buy T5 or T7 ones? From reviews it appears that T5 may roll little bit faster but has less grip, especially in wet


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> With fast trak in front it looks to be a setup to ride all season, renegade up front may be too slick for some races ?
> 
> Did you buy T5 or T7 ones? From reviews it appears that T5 may roll little bit faster but has less grip, especially in wet


I bought the T5 for the rear. I may get a Fast Trak S-Works 2.35 for the front for next spring. I now have a 2.3 Ground Control on the front which will serve me well this fall once the leaves start falling.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Raikzz said:


> For front tyre i've been looking
> *new S-works fastrak 2.35 with 615g claimed weight
> * Conti Cross king racesport 2.2 or 2.3 with 565g and 675g weights
> 
> ...


The old Protection tires were really stiff. The old Race Sports were really supple, and didn't damp enough of impacts to hold a line well (great for smoother, straighter, faster races though).

The new Protections are less stiff (a layer removed under the tread vs the old) and npretty awesome. I run them with Rimpact inserts @ 16/21 PSI, and they well damped and role really fast. They also corner remarkably well with the revised Race King tread design. They're near perfect. They measure a true 2.2 (on my 30mm internal rims), but I do wish they were a 2.3 or a 2.4.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Stonerider said:


> I bought the T5 for the rear. I may get a Fast Trak S-Works 2.35 for the front for next spring. I now have a 2.3 Ground Control on the front which will serve me well this fall once the leaves start falling.


Had a look of specialized factory riders and looks like they only touch s-works casings for short tracks, and looks like fast trak also get's very little use, mostly riding renegade control T7 and swapping between T5 for some races


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Mongoguy said:


> I'm 90% I'll be running Mezcal 2.6f and 2.35 rear at Marji this year. They quickly are becoming my favorite tire on my SS! If the weather looks nasty I'll probably run 2.4 Rekon rear. The Mezcal just rolls so fast to me.


I ran 2.35 Mezcals f/r for MG ? in 2019 and they were perfect. 2.6 is probably overkill.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

MI-XC said:


> I ran 2.35 Mezcals f/r for MG 💯 in 2019 and they were perfect. 2.6 is probably overkill.


I don't think the 2.6 Mezcal is overkill, I'm local to the area and ride the trails often.

I've raced 2.35/2.60 combo of the Nobby Nic to 3rd in the Marji out and back in 2019, 4.8's to a buckle in 2018, & a 2.4/2.2 X-King/Race King combo to a buckle in 2017.

I've enjoyed the larger tires more than the smaller tires at Marji, they are more forgiving late in the race and take out a lot of root impacts better than 2.35, large tires help your bike's suspension filter out the subtle impacts of these trails.

I'd recommend riding whatever you're comfortable with, as long as they're reasonably fast rollers...and the 2.6 Mezcal fits that criteria.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

I like the mezcals for that race too, but the 2.25 variety.

Evolution Training Cycles


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

After a very wet July and part of August things finally drying up for good September races in New England. Swapped to 2.4 Aspen front and rear. Both tires pretty close to factory weight spec (717g, 722g). When mounted looked very small, but after one ride tires measuring right at 2.4. The volume is pretty amazing, very supple ride. Really bring the pressure down versus my prior race setup (AR 2.35/Ikon 2.25) to 23psi front/26psi rear. 
First impressions of shakedown ride (trail mix of fireroad, hard to medium loose singletrack, lots of small rocks). Avg pace: 11.1mph
Pretty wild such small knobs do the job but felt pretty comfortable loading pretty good into corners. More feedback and not muted like my AR. 
There was some greasy rocks and expected to slide but nope, held its line. Better than the Ikon but not as good as the AR. 
Acceleration with larger tire felt OK, Ikons much better initial bite and power transfer. But once your moving at a good clip, Aspens just had crazy momentum. Saw this during the fireroad sections, soft pedaling and holding good pace. 

Next two races feature 1) tons of rocks, roots, bit of gravel and pavement. 2) quarter fireroads, quarter loose over hard and rest rock garden hell. Ran these races past few years on AR/Ikon, AR/AR, AR/Aspen 2.25, Rekon/Rekon 2.25. Have 2 more rides before deciding final setup (pending the weather).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Reading Bicycle Rolling Resistance tests the Contintal Race King appears to be the fastest XC race tire. 

Anyone spend time on it and can provide a review?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Recent test or one of their older ones?


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> Reading Bicycle Rolling Resistance tests the Contintal Race King appears to be the fastest XC race tire.
> 
> Anyone spend time on it and can provide a review?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


I just put on Race King RaceSport 26x2.2 (477&478g) tires on my vintage bike this past weekend. The RaceSport should be even faster than the ProTection ones that Bicycle Rolling Resistance tested. Also put 97g Conti Supersonic tubes in them. They are rockets for sure, much faster than my former 29er hardtail was with carbon Rovals and slower Specialized tires (Purgatory 2.3/The Captain 2.2) run tubeless, at least on smoother trails. The rolling resistance benefit easily outweights the negatives of an extra 2.5 lb bike weight and smaller tires on the vintage bike vs. the 29er. Just one ride on one of my easy loops that I always ride easy (L1) with these new tires and I strava PRed on just about segment using the vintage 26er vs. the 3 years of riding the same loop maybe two dozen times per year on the 29er.

I didn't need strava to tell me they rolled fast though. Probably not just me, but I think rolling resistance is one of the easiest things to feel on a bike. Things just feel draggy with every pedal stroke. I could tell when I put the previous Panaracer Fire 2.1s on the vintage bike (ages ago) that I had suddenly lost a LOT of speed, like at least one gear.

I don't race so I can't really provide many relevant comparisons. You guys provided good feedback on Race Kings in general earlier in this thread (liking them vs. not liking Cross Kings as much...). I try to stay out of mud/try to stay clean if it rains, so slowing down on purpose (tires not limiting), don't get punctures, so these tires fit my wants (primarily easy speed) better than any other. Plus Pidcock won gold on a version of the Race Kings.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

MattMay said:


> Recent test or one of their older ones?


They have recent rolling resistance tests on Mezcals, Racing Ralph's & the Race King which are all major contenders obviously. 
The Race King is actuality MUCH faster whereas other top tires are grouped together pretty closely. 
But not sure how that will translate to actual trail riding where overall handling matters, not just a smooth drum test at too high of air pressure. For my purposes (trail riding) the loss of tire volume moving to a 2.2, is unappealing. But I could certainly see slapping on the Race King for a race.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I haven't ridden the latest Race King but in 2018, I had Race King Protections and while they rolled fast on pavement, they sucked on the trail. They don't damp roots or other trail imperfections well at all so you ended up with the tire bouncing over stuff rather than conforming. That slows your momentum. Off-road rolling resistance is about momentum and not just a smooth drum. I was measurably faster on Fast Traks on the trail, but not on the road ride to the trails. Having said that, it appears Pidcock is testing a prototype so there might be a new version out soon.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> Reading Bicycle Rolling Resistance tests the Contintal Race King appears to be the fastest XC race tire.
> 
> Anyone spend time on it and can provide a review?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


See my post prior page regarding the V2 Race Kings.

_The old Protection tires were really stiff. The old Race Sports were really supple, and didn't damp enough of impacts to hold a line well (great for smoother, straighter, faster races though).

The new Protections are less stiff (a layer removed under the tread vs the old) and npretty awesome. I run them with Rimpact inserts @ 16/21 PSI, and they well damped and role really fast. They also corner remarkably well with the revised Race King tread design. They're near perfect. They measure a true 2.2 (on my 30mm internal rims), but I do wish they were a 2.3 or a 2.4._

I'm not sure I'd enjoy them without the inserts allowing me to run them at these low pressures, I haven't tried. Inserts are 90g a piece. I bought the Race Kings for race day, but found I like them enough to leave them on as daily drivers for some pretty technical trails.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

brentos said:


> See my post prior page regarding the V2 Race Kings.
> 
> _The old Protection tires were really stiff. The old Race Sports were really supple, and didn't damp enough of impacts to hold a line well (great for smoother, straighter, faster races though).
> 
> ...


I'd like to test the Race King and I run a rear insert as well so no problem there, but admit that 2.2 is an awfully small rear tire.

The volume difference between a true 2.2 & the true 2.3 I run now (Mezcal 2.35) can be a lot more than .1" even sounds like.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Jenny Rissveds won the World Cup XCC short track race Friday using the new Specialized Fast Trak tires. It looked like the other Specialized racers were using the Renegade.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Combo of the two is my current and preferred setup. Renegade rear, Fastrak front, 2.3s.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

MattMay said:


> Combo of the two is my current and preferred setup. Renegade rear, Fastrak front, 2.3s.


2.3 so old models?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

The old Renegade is an amazing tire. It's so supple and cushy while being long wearing. It's only weakness is that it's not as good as a front tire as the Fast Trak. It appears the new ones are being used much more frequently as a front tire by the Specialized racers but I hope they didn't compromise the awesome rear wheel characteristics of the old Renegade.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I guess?









Made for riders, by riders. | Specialized.com


From seasoned pros and weekend warriors, to kids and commuters—if you ride, we’re for you. We believe bikes have the power to change lives. This simple truth drives us to be—and do—better.




www.specialized.com


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

That's the new Fast Trak? It looks like it would make a good rear trail tire for a quick DC bike. 
Anyone have experience in this regard?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

MattMay said:


> I guess?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is new model Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5 | Specialized.com


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Currently running 2.25 aspens front and rear. Seems to roll pretty fast and has surprisingly good traction for dusty midwest terrain. Any suggestions for a even faster rolling setup?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Raikzz said:


> This is new model Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5 | Specialized.com


Then I'm old school. Still like the combo, plus, yknow, tanwall.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

utmtbrider said:


> Currently running 2.25 aspens front and rear. Seems to roll pretty fast and has surprisingly good traction for dusty midwest terrain. Any suggestions for a even faster rolling setup?


Thunder Burts, Renegades, XR1


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Guys/ gals, what's that German brand of direct to consumer mountain bike tires I've heard good things about? They are from the guy that apparently mixes compounds for Schwalbe, Continental & others.

Thanks.

Edited: Found it, Wolfpack.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Fast Trak 2.3 (Front/Rear) is my Option1 and Ikon 2.35 (F) Aspen 2.25 (R) is plan B. From my experience I believe Plan A to be lighter and fast rolling but more delicate. Would you agree? I also think the maxis pair is superior in wet weather, albeit neither is much to write home about.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Fast Trak 2.3 (Front/Rear) is my Option1 and Ikon 2.35 (F) Aspen 2.25 (R) is plan B. From my experience I believe Plan A to be lighter and fast rolling but more delicate. Would you agree? I also think the maxis pair is superior in wet weather, albeit neither is much to write home about.


Maxxis for rocks or wet roots. The rubber compound is better.
FastTrak front/Renegade rear (not s-works or grid) for fast rolling.
No ramps on the Specialized knobs so they climb better given a surface they can dig in to.
More cush from the Maxxis pair, but also more weight (and toughness).


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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

My go-to race options:
Option1: Fast Trak/Renegade 2.3 sworks - very very fast and light but still has grip in wet - no rocks allowed 
Option2: Wolfpack Speed 2,4 F/R - more grip and security - still light (660gr)
Option3: Continental MountainKing Protection 2,3 F/R - very good grip and tough sidewalls - for rocky stage races in central europe but still quite light
Training option: Front Schwalbe 2,35 Racing Ray/Rear Maxxis Aspen 2.4WT - I don't know why - just have them - trying to use them up and then buy more wolfpacks.

Specialized control tires are pointless crap in my humble opinion - cheap T5 compound - so no traction, heavy but with thin sidewalls (same as sworks) - it's magic how they achieve that - and usually much heavier than indicated.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Looking for some input here: 

Rocky, rooty, with some steeps/chutes. Some proper "BC/XC" and potentially wet. I can live with an Ikon on the back, but think I want a little more security out front. Mud shouldn't be much of a problem, but definitely willing to sacrifice a bit of drag to keep my face off the ground. Have 27 and 30mm front wheels available. 

I've got the good old DHF hanging in the garage, and a DHR2 WT (some like as a front)--I actually found this lying on a local backroad. But I suspect what I'd want is something between the Ikon and these heavy-duty options.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sounds Forekaster territory?


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Rekon 2.4? It’s smaller than the 2.35 Ikon though (not sure which one you’re running out back). 

Just got in from 56km of greasy Vancouver Island XC riding with a Rekon MaxTerra 2.4 up front and a MaxSpeed 2.4 Rekon Race in back. Served me very well. Fast enough and grippy enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Rekon 2.6 on the 30mm if you’re running a 2.35 Ikon in the rear. 2.4 Rekon if you’re running a 2.25 Ikon.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Looking for some input here:
> 
> Rocky, rooty, with some steeps/chutes. Some proper "BC/XC" and potentially wet. I can live with an Ikon on the back, but think I want a little more security out front. Mud shouldn't be much of a problem, but definitely willing to sacrifice a bit of drag to keep my face off the ground. Have 27 and 30mm front wheels available.
> 
> I've got the good old DHF hanging in the garage, and a DHR2 WT (some like as a front)--I actually found this lying on a local backroad. But I suspect what I'd want is something between the Ikon and these heavy-duty options.


Under that criteria, I run a Nobby Nic 2.6 up front. It's the old, pre-tank weight, version though.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Looking for some input here:
> 
> Rocky, rooty, with some steeps/chutes. Some proper "BC/XC" and potentially wet. I can live with an Ikon on the back, but think I want a little more security out front. Mud shouldn't be much of a problem, but definitely willing to sacrifice a bit of drag to keep my face off the ground. Have 27 and 30mm front wheels available.
> 
> I've got the good old DHF hanging in the garage, and a DHR2 WT (some like as a front)--I actually found this lying on a local backroad. But I suspect what I'd want is something between the Ikon and these heavy-duty options.


Is this for a race? You couldn't pay me to race any XC event on a minion ever.

I'll second the Forekaster as a front. Test the 2.35 or 2.6. They are the bees knees for wet stuff. Not pure mud though. Max party and speed for me is forkaster front and Rekon race rear.

Forekaster far better than a Nobby Nic in the wet. Nobby Nic is better in pure kitty litter. High desert style dirt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Looking for some input here:
> 
> Rocky, rooty, with some steeps/chutes. Some proper "BC/XC" and potentially wet. I can live with an Ikon on the back, but think I want a little more security out front. Mud shouldn't be much of a problem, but definitely willing to sacrifice a bit of drag to keep my face off the ground. Have 27 and 30mm front wheels available.
> 
> I've got the good old DHF hanging in the garage, and a DHR2 WT (some like as a front)--I actually found this lying on a local backroad. But I suspect what I'd want is something between the Ikon and these heavy-duty options.


What is the race? I was think the Back-40 but that was last weekend.

I actually raced a DHF in one stage of single track six a couple of years ago. It was the 7-summits stage, with a 1700m of climbing and 2500m of descending I thought the front grip might be an advantage. Didn't make much of a difference on the descents but ironically I was climbing really well that day.

As mentioned a 2.35 Forecaster would be the logical choice. The 2.4 Rekon might be good, I have been using one all summer on my trail bike and like it it. But I haven't ridden it in the wet yet.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

I used a Hans Dampf 2.35 Snake Skin with a Pepi's Rokline Noodle at 13 psi on the front for the Back 40. I prerode with a 2.35 Nobby Nic, but wanted something that would blunt more of the impacts for the rocky downhills. Traction with either was not the issue.
I wish there were more race courses like the Back 40. So much fun, and a mtn bike equivalent of decathlon (xc + dh + enduro + trials +... and possibly for a few frustrated individuals - bike toss)


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

It's not a race bike so not exactly race tires but I hurt myself last weekend running my 'fast' tires on a Spur when I lost the front on a downhill. As a result I ordered a new Hans Dampf Snakeskin 2.35 & a WolfPack Trail 2.4 to test up front.

Quite excited to test the WolfPack actually.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

The regular snakeskin HD is surprisingly faster front. I used to race with it for years on the front. As I went from Cat 3 to cat 1. My first ever cat 1 race was a 4th place finish with HD/NN. I had just come back from Sedona and was too busy to change it. 

I imagine it’s a lot heavier these days with the current compounds, but so is everything else. New Rocket ron 2.25 are 735g!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ccm said:


> I used a Hans Dampf 2.35 Snake Skin with a Pepi's Rokline Noodle at 13 psi on the front for the Back 40. I prerode with a 2.35 Nobby Nic, but wanted something that would blunt more of the impacts for the rocky downhills. Traction with either was not the issue.
> I wish there were more race courses like the Back 40. So much fun, and a mtn bike equivalent of decathlon (xc + dh + enduro + trials +... and possibly for a few frustrated individuals - bike toss)


That looked like a really cool event. On my list for next year, would have done it this year but out easy right now.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> The regular snakeskin HD is surprisingly faster front. I used to race with it for years on the front. As I went from Cat 3 to cat 1. My first ever cat 1 race was a 4th place finish with HD/NN. I had just come back from Sedona and was too busy to change it.
> 
> I imagine it's a lot heavier these days with the current compounds, but so is everything else. New Rocket ron 2.25 are 735g!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know about the HD2 Snakeskin. They are still easy to get, however are discontinued. 
The Wolfpack trail 2.4 looks like an HD2 Snakeskin but with ramped center lugs. And the brand is owned by the guy that designed Addix & Black Chili.

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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

LMN said:


> What is the race? I was think the Back-40 but that was last weekend.
> 
> I actually raced a DHF in one stage of single track six a couple of years ago. It was the 7-summits stage, with a 1700m of climbing and 2500m of descending I thought the front grip might be an advantage. Didn't make much of a difference on the descents but ironically I was climbing really well that day.
> 
> As mentioned a 2.35 Forecaster would be the logical choice. The 2.4 Rekon might be good, I have been using one all summer on my trail bike and like it it. But I haven't ridden it in the wet yet.


In Mission, BC:






Bear Mountain — Fraser Valley Bike Races







www.fvbr.ca





The second half of the long course is on Red Mountain. The trails there are very "old school" no-flow. Lots of fun, but you need to be on your game.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Any up to date opinions on the Schwalbe Thunder Burt 2.35 in the newest version as a dry rear tire?

Have searched for reviews but they are all very old (circa 2013).

Please advise.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

That’s a pretty extreme tire to run if you have just removed your racier tires for more traction. 


It also wouldn’t be very good for our current conditions in Austin. I would use it as a race day only tire on somewhere that is hardpack and not loose. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> That's a pretty extreme tire to run if you have just removed your racier tires for more traction.
> 
> It also wouldn't be very good for our current conditions in Austin. I would use it as a race day only tire on somewhere that is hardpack and not loose.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hear your point but those side lugs look awfully grippy.
Anyways, they don't really have the sizings, casing, and compounds that I desire so I'll skip on this one.

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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I know we tend to over-think it in terms of tire choice (I'm guilty as well), but in all honesty, you won't notice a huge difference in speed between any of the good XC tires. I'd just look for the best deal among Mezcals, Aspens, Forekasters, Fast Traks, Renegades, etc. With regard to Schwalbes, I can't justify spending $85-$90 per tire when a fabulous tire like the Fast Trak can be had for $60. The only tires I really dislike are Continentals - they roll well enough but their ride quality kinda sucks.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm still struggling to find the right tires for my Spur.

As I upgrade my tire traction to suit my needs I'm finding I might end up with a Spur that doesn't roll any better than my Enduro bike but it's frankly a lot worse doing most other things I do with my bikes.

I'm trying very hard to find that fine line of just enough traction with the fastest rolling setup. It's important that I make a conscious decision to not try and do the same thing with this bike that I do with my big bike.

Have 2 new Schwalbes on the shelf I'm not going to use (Ray & Ralph if anyone is interested $120 shipped) and 3 other tires currently on order. Tested an Agarro up front today and didn't like. 

Ps. Have a Mountain King on the way so hopefully I don't experience that harshness.


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm still struggling to find the right tires for my Spur.
> 
> As I upgrade my tire traction to suit my needs I'm finding I might end up with a Spur that doesn't roll any better than my Enduro bike but it's frankly a lot worse doing most other things I do with my bikes.
> 
> ...


You thought about trying a wolfpack race on the rear with their trail tire on the front? I have two of the race tires but haven't mounted them yet. Looks like a nice tire though.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm still struggling to find the right tires for my Spur.
> 
> As I upgrade my tire traction to suit my needs I'm finding I might end up with a Spur that doesn't roll any better than my Enduro bike but it's frankly a lot worse doing most other things I do with my bikes.
> 
> ...


Tell me the combos you have tried. I have some tires you could try, or could send you combos.

With the conditions right now, I would run your bike with a forekaster front, and a 2.25 Rekon race or even Aspen. The Aspen doesn't brake for **** and will skip and lift in the Greenbelt. You will end up riding in your front tire a lot with the rear slipping off the ground in downhills. A new Rekon race rails if you are good at leaning. If you aren't great with bike body separation. You may struggle with most semi slicks in our loose over hard and moon dust.

Forekaster > Nobby Nic on that Scorched earth black dirt SATN. And in moon dust.

Based on your feedback of combos, you should also try a set it and forget it combo of just forekaster/forekaster. Just be careful with psi. The casing is narrow so it needs more air to prevent punch flats. This combo feels slower and buzzy on the street, but it will rip and grip on our dirt. Both of these combos will really fit that bike.

Also dont benchmark tires vs a minion. You can't ride a bike without enduro tires with the same laziness of body English and lean.

It sounds like you already tried my wife's combo, which she shreds on, but it didn't work for you. So some of these racier combos may just not be for you for a while and that's OK. 50% Barton Greenbelt, 20% walnut, 30% (Flat Rock brushy wherever we are racing, SATN&#8230;in that order)

Ive ridden this bike up and down Sedona at the same speeds as when I was on a revel rascal and 2020 primer. I just change my shoes on my Top Fuel to a Minion or magic marry front and whatever rear tire I have around (preferably a NoNo) add my dropper and it's ready to party.

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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm still struggling to find the right tires for my Spur.
> 
> As I upgrade my tire traction to suit my needs I'm finding I might end up with a Spur that doesn't roll any better than my Enduro bike but it's frankly a lot worse doing most other things I do with my bikes.
> 
> ...


If you want to run faster tires, you may have to change your bike setup and play with different stem angles and handlebar height. There is no way you can run a rear biased setup like an enduro bike with an XC tire on the front and maintain consistent grip. I run a front biased setup and my stem angles are anywhere between -17 and -25 and rarely washout even with an Aspen in the front. When I'm on the -25 stem, I hardly ever washout at all even when tired and my technique gets sloppy. The tradeoff is that I'm less comfortable descending on the -25 so you gotta find your comfort zone which will be different for everyone. I try to use the most front biased setup I can without loosing confidence on the descends, at least on my XC bike.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

100% ^

I had to drop my stack height 10mm this weekend and it made a drastic difference. 


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Race next weekend. 1 hour rough, not technical climb, 20min rocky descent and another hour of other bits after.
Weather dependent I'm looking at 2.35 Purgatory's or a CushCore XC'd FastTrak/Renegade combo.
Test riding it this afternoon in the dry on the Purg's.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

When I was riding it felt like about 80% pace. Compared to last years race I was 8% slower on the climb, 14% slower on the descent (Ikons + CC XC last time).
The descent was in way worse condition than last time. Our most recent rains and lockdown means a crumbly top surface with fist sized loose rocks everywhere that haven't been pushed aside by riders yet. No clean line at all on a 20min descent.
FastTrak/Renegade would be brilliant on the climb but too dangerous on the descent.


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## R332 (Jul 26, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> If you want to run faster tires, you may have to change your bike setup and play with different stem angles and handlebar height. There is no way you can run a rear biased setup like an enduro bike with an XC tire on the front and maintain consistent grip.


Thoughts on going with a longer stem vs lower bar height to help weight the front tire? I am already at 55mm saddle to bar drop and don't want to go lower but I could probably live with a 10mm longer stem.

Since this is a tire thread ... I am running i29 wheels with the latest version 29x2.35 Racing Ray and Racing Ralph (both are claimed 750g) and I find they provide excellent traction over mixed surfaces (not mud) and have fairly low rolling resistance but I would gladly move to different tires if I could get the same traction and rolling performance at sub-700g. Is that too much to ask?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

R332 said:


> Thoughts on going with a longer stem vs lower bar height to help weight the front tire? I am already at 55mm saddle to bar drop and don't want to go lower but I could probably live with a 10mm longer stem.
> 
> Since this is a tire thread ... I am running i29 wheels with the latest version 29x2.35 Racing Ray and Racing Ralph (both are claimed 750g) and I find they provide excellent traction over mixed surfaces (not mud) and have fairly low rolling resistance but I would gladly move to different tires if I could get the same traction and rolling performance at sub-700g. Is that too much to ask?


Go with the new 2.35 Fast Trak Control front and 2.35 Renegade Control rear for similar traction and rolling resistance but they are both under 700 grams (670). The men's and women's winners at Cape Epic were running these tires this year.


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## marvinmartian (May 14, 2009)

A related question for people on this thread...I have an Aspen and a Rekon Race that i scored as part of a team/club deal last year but have yet to use them. Planning on riding them this year. It seems that a lot of people use that combo with the Aspen up front; how would people in this forum run them? Just by non mounted looks the Rekon Race seems like it should go up front, but my opinion on that may change once they are mounted to rims and I get a better idea about the profile and side knobs of each


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## R332 (Jul 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Go with the new 2.35 Fast Trak Control front and 2.35 Renegade Control rear for similar traction and rolling resistance but they are both under 700 grams (670). The men's and women's winners at Cape Epic were running these tires this year.


Which versions are you suggesting as an upgrade to my RR / RR combo?

FRONT
*Fast Trak GRID 2Bliss Ready T7*
*Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5*
*S-Works Fast Trak 2Bliss Ready T5/T7*

REAR
*Renegade Control 2Bliss Ready T5
Renegade Control 2Bliss Ready T7*


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

marvinmartian said:


> A related question for people on this thread...I have an Aspen and a Rekon Race that i scored as part of a team/club deal last year but have yet to use them. Planning on riding them this year. It seems that a lot of people use that combo with the Aspen up front; how would people in this forum run them? Just by non mounted looks the Rekon Race seems like it should go up front, but my opinion on that may change once they are mounted to rims and I get a better idea about the profile and side knobs of each


I won the same combo. I ran Rekon race front and Aspen rear until I rode the chevrons completely off the aspens out in Bentonville during the initial lockdown. I did two Texas races before that as well on that combo. 

I went with the Rekon race front for the better corner knobs. 

After this thorough test, I landed on a Rekon race F/R combo. The Aspen just will NOT brake well enough for as fast as I wish to go down hill and late brake. It skips and lifts too easily so I end up just riding out DH switches on a Nose wheelie anyway. 

I never put the Aspen on the front as I don’t see it as acceptable for a front in loose over hard/Scree. But that is all hearsay. Ive been toying with the notion of trying it out for hardpack trails and courses. 

It’s hard to move away from what’s working until it stops working. Ive gone through about 10 rekon races since trying it out and have put about 7k miles on them on various bikes. 


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

R332 said:


> Which versions are you suggesting as an upgrade to my RR / RR combo?
> 
> FRONT
> *Fast Trak GRID 2Bliss Ready T7*
> ...


Front Fast Trak Control 2Bliss Ready T5
Rear Renegade Control 2Bliss Ready T5

This is what I have for use...I was tempted to try the S-Works Fast Trak on the front but was worried about punctures as it is very supple and very light.


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## marvinmartian (May 14, 2009)

FJSnoozer said:


> I won the same combo. I ran Rekon race front and Aspen rear until I rode the chevrons completely off the aspens out in Bentonville during the initial lockdown. I did two Texas races before that as well on that combo.
> 
> I went with the Rekon race front for the better corner knobs.
> 
> ...


I should probably just try them myself and see what happens. i am in GA and we get a lot of loose over hard pack unless it has rained in the last few days. Probably more of a specific course decision than a general way of running them as well. Some courses here are relatively flat and some have some faster downhills so it is not really a one size fits all proposition anyway


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just put a pair of Rekon Race's on the Anthem and they do roll well. The front feels a little heavy though, as though the pressure is way too low, but it's my usual 18f/20r psi. Will try 20f/22r next.
They feel like the Maxxis version of a Fasttrak/Renegade combo, but heavier, slightly less climbing traction and better rubber compound.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Just put a pair of Rekon Race's on the Anthem and they do roll well. The front feels a little heavy though, as though the pressure is way too low, but it's my usual 18f/20r psi. Will try 20f/22r next.
> They feel like the Maxxis version of a Fasttrak/Renegade combo, but heavier, slightly less climbing traction and better rubber compound.


Which size? I bought both the 2.4 and 2.25 last summer and I actually prefer the smaller one. At least out back. Great tires. Nice and plump with a really fast feel. I also felt the 2.4 seemed somehow “draggy”.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

PlanB said:


> Which size? I bought both the 2.4 and 2.25 last summer and I actually prefer the smaller one. At least out back. Great tires. Nice and plump with a really fast feel. I also felt the 2.4 seemed somehow “draggy”.


2.25
OE take offs (white Maxxis logo) from a new bike that got ridden once and "ahh! not enough grip!"
100g heavier than the 2.3 Renegade Control and 50g heavier than the 2.3 Fasttrak Control.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> I won the same combo. I ran Rekon race front and Aspen rear until I rode the chevrons completely off the aspens out in Bentonville during the initial lockdown. I did two Texas races before that as well on that combo.
> 
> I went with the Rekon race front for the better corner knobs.
> 
> ...


I have never really fallen in love with the Rekon Race. I find they only really work well when it is hot and performance on them drops rapidly with wear. I run them, but only because I have what seems a life time supply of them.

I haven't used the 2.35s or 2.4s yet. I have some waiting to be used but I am trying to wear through my collection of 2.25s first.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> I have never really fallen in love with the Rekon Race. I find they only really work well when it is hot and performance on them drops rapidly with wear. I run them, but only because I have what seems a life time supply of them.
> 
> I haven't used the 2.35s or 2.4s yet. I have some waiting to be used but I am trying to wear through my collection of 2.25s first.


I order tires 10 at a time because I hate paying retail or being without tires. 

I have about 25 tires in my truck organized in Tupperware  I’ve doubled back in the trail to go get a brand new tire for a fallen soldier several times, or bailed people out at races. 




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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

LMN said:


> I have never really fallen in love with the Rekon Race. I find they only really work well when it is hot and performance on them drops rapidly with wear. I run them, but only because I have what seems a life time supply of them.
> 
> I haven't used the 2.35s or 2.4s yet. I have some waiting to be used but I am trying to wear through my collection of 2.25s first.


I'm using the 2.35 Rekon Race with 30mm internal width rims. I really can't complain about them for XC conditions. They came on my bike so I didn't weight them but I think claimed they are kinda heavy (750g range). Other than that...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Raced on the Rekon Races today. *Very* similar feel to the Renegade/Fasttrak except heavier and better rubber.
They'll stay on for next weekends race and then the next weekend after that I'll hopefully get to try them on rocks & roots.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

First ride on new 2.35 Fast Trak Control front and 2.35 Renegade Control rear. I'm impressed with the cornering grip of the new Fast Trak and the Renegade does what the Renegade does (rolls fast). I'm running them on 29ID rims which gives good sidewall support.


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## Unbrockenchain (Aug 21, 2015)

So Specialized has eliminated a lot of tires with Control casing. I was looking for just a bit more of aggressive front tire if I wanted to put Fast Trak on rear and all there is is the Ground Control. Claimed weight is like 845 grams. Maybe Forekaster 2.35 front/fast trak rear?


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

LMN said:


> I have never really fallen in love with the Rekon Race. I find they only really work well when it is hot and performance on them drops rapidly with wear. I run them, but only because I have what seems a life time supply of them.


It's the tire of choice in the Maxxis line for Bentonville/NWA I'd say. Seems to handle this terrain very well. I've raced Vittoria Barzos & Mezcals in Oz Trails Off Road on a Hardtail (SS) and Full Suspension geared bike, and zero flats 3 years in a row.

I've got a set of the new "down country" Vittoria Syerra 2.4's on the way, still an 800g+ tire but might be a durable and fast solution here. The biggest thing is going from 60tpi from 120tpi on their whole line, hopefully they bring that casing to other XC treads in the line (Terreno/Mezcal please!).


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Unbrockenchain said:


> So Specialized has eliminated a lot of tires with Control casing. I was looking for just a bit more of aggressive front tire if I wanted to put Fast Trak on rear and all there is is the Ground Control. Claimed weight is like 845 grams. Maybe Forekaster 2.35 front/fast trak rear?


That should work well for better front grip. If you can get past the fact that your front tire will be narrower than your rear.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Wouldn't mind trying a Forekaster front and Rekon Race rear, but it's hard to find a Forekaster here.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Wouldn't mind trying a Forekaster front and Rekon Race rear, but it's hard to find a Forekaster here.


Truly my favorite combo for a 100-120 bike


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I have been running Aspen 2.25s front and rear for the entire season. In two of my races the front washed out, once on the climb and once on the descent. Granted neither effected my race time by more than ten seconds but still was unnerving and made me not trust my front tires traction. Any recommendations for a tire that has a little better front end traction but still in the 650g tire weight?


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

utmtbrider said:


> I have been running Aspen 2.25s front and rear for the entire season. In two of my races the front washed out, once on the climb and once on the descent. Granted neither effected my race time by more than ten seconds but still was unnerving and made me not trust my front tires traction. Any recommendations for a tire that has a little better front end traction but still in the 650g tire weight?


I'd like an answer to this also (650g, good traction.
So far all I can find are these (maybe?).


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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

Wolfpack Speed 2,4" 660gr or Wolfpack Race 2,25" 650gr or Specialized Fast Trak Sworks 2,35"


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

utmtbrider said:


> I have been running Aspen 2.25s front and rear for the entire season. In two of my races the front washed out, once on the climb and once on the descent. Granted neither effected my race time by more than ten seconds but still was unnerving and made me not trust my front tires traction. Any recommendations for a tire that has a little better front end traction but still in the 650g tire weight?


I still really like the old Ikons. They have been around forever but they still do good a job of juggling, grip, weight, rolling resistance, reliability and durability.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Truly my favorite combo for a 100-120 bike


Found a Forekaster 2.35 this morning. Will get to test it in the race tomorrow


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Found a Forekaster 2.35 this morning. Will get to test it in the race tomorrow


Let us know how the tire and race goes. Good luck!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

utmtbrider said:


> I have been running Aspen 2.25s front and rear for the entire season. In two of my races the front washed out, once on the climb and once on the descent. Granted neither effected my race time by more than ten seconds but still was unnerving and made me not trust my front tires traction. Any recommendations for a tire that has a little better front end traction but still in the 650g tire weight?


I have experience with a 2.4 Aspen and a 2.35 Fast Trak Control on the front. The Fast Trak has better cornering grip and weighs a lot less than the Aspen. So I'm certain the 2.35 Fast Trak would corner better than the little 2.25 Aspen.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

utmtbrider said:


> I have been running Aspen 2.25s front and rear for the entire season. In two of my races the front washed out, once on the climb and once on the descent. Granted neither effected my race time by more than ten seconds but still was unnerving and made me not trust my front tires traction. Any recommendations for a tire that has a little better front end traction but still in the 650g tire weight?


The Aspens corner well when leaned but my biggest problem with them is that they don't seem well damped so if the front wheel hits little loose branches or roots, the front end often bounces a bit and looses traction. The Fast Traks are so compliant and well damped that they don't seem to have this problem. I sort of like Mezcals too and they give you a little bit of warning before they let go.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Kirsa said:


> Wolfpack Speed 2,4" 660gr or Wolfpack Race 2,25" 650gr or Specialized Fast Trak Sworks 2,35"


Not sure if you are in the states, but a company called Presta is the US distributor and are basically scam artists. 
I was very excited to try Wolfpack tires, ordered a tire, they shipped the wrong tire intentionally (they hand wrote on the invoice that they were out of the tire I ordered so just dropped another one in the box instead), I requested a refund/ return shipping label/ correct tire shipped by email several times with no response. 
I then did a charge back on my CC which they are currently protesting. 
Unfortunately until I can buy a Wolfpack tire from somewhere else, it's not an option. 

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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Not sure if you are in the states, but a company called Presta is the US distributor and are basically scam artists.


Yea I'm in Europe/Estonia  and I am bying from them directly: https://wolfpack-tires.com/?lang=en
Sorry to hear that buying wolfpack tires in states is problematic.


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> Not sure if you are in the states, but a company called Presta is the US distributor and are basically scam artists.
> I was very excited to try Wolfpack tires, ordered a tire, they shipped the wrong tire intentionally (they hand wrote on the invoice that they were out of the tire I ordered so just dropped another one in the box instead), I requested a refund/ return shipping label/ correct tire shipped by email several times with no response.
> I then did a charge back on my CC which they are currently protesting.
> Unfortunately until I can buy a Wolfpack tire from somewhere else, it's not an option.
> ...


I


Suns_PSD said:


> Not sure if you are in the states, but a company called Presta is the US distributor and are basically scam artists.
> I was very excited to try Wolfpack tires, ordered a tire, they shipped the wrong tire intentionally (they hand wrote on the invoice that they were out of the tire I ordered so just dropped another one in the box instead), I requested a refund/ return shipping label/ correct tire shipped by email several times with no response.
> I then did a charge back on my CC which they are currently protesting.
> Unfortunately until I can buy a Wolfpack tire from somewhere else, it's not an option.
> ...


Man that sucks. I bought one wolfpack tire from them. I guess I got lucky they had it in stock. Got another one from bike tires direct in Portland but their wolfpack options are limited right now.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I appreciate all the input. Seems like the specialized fast trak os what I should go with since its difficult to get wolfpack tires here in the US. Just curious does anyone have input on the renegade vs an aspen? Is it faster rolling?


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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

utmtbrider said:


> I appreciate all the input. Seems like the specialized fast trak os what I should go with since its difficult to get wolfpack tires here in the US. Just curious does anyone have input on the renegade vs an aspen? Is it faster rolling?


560gr sworks renegade 2,3" is faster than 2,25" aspen non-exo(595gr). But aspen is better front tire - better cornering grip. Renegade is better rear tire.
605gr sworks fast trak 2,3" has similar grip/weight/rolling resistance than non-exo aspen. 650gr exo aspen is slower than other 3 but obviously more secure.
Haven't tried control renegade.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Let us know how the tire and race goes. Good luck!


I went to the Forekaster because the Reckon Race wasn't going to be enough on the front for the forecast rain before and during the race.
It rained last night but the granite sands drained really well and there were only 2 small patches of mud on the whole course.
The Rekon Race would have been perfect.
The Forekaster didn't have anything to get it's teeth into and the knobs felt a little long and slow.
It rained 20min after the end of the race 

If it had rained during the race it would have been perfect. Not to mention cooler...


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

utmtbrider said:


> I appreciate all the input. Seems like the specialized fast trak os what I should go with since its difficult to get wolfpack tires here in the US. Just curious does anyone have input on the renegade vs an aspen? Is it faster rolling?


I have been using Aspens and Renegade Controls (old version not the new T5 version) over the last two seasons. The Aspen is a better front tire. But as a rear tire, the Aspen is really pretty mediocre. I honestly can't find any upsides to it. Crappy braking, easy to lose the rear end when cornering, not compliant over roots and bounces all over the place even at low pressures, and wears out in about 500 miles. I've never experienced a tire that is so decent on the front and so crappy as a rear. I don't understand it. No wonder the pros had them develop a 170tpi version because the 120 version is essentially useless as a rear tire.

The Renegade is everything the Aspen is not as a rear tire. Good braking, lots of control and predictability, super compliant with minimal bounce over roots, and will last 1500 miles before you need to replace it. The compiance also makes it really fast over rough terrain off-road, 

The Aspen 2.25 and the Renegade control 2.3 weighed about the same on my scale (around 650g). The Aspen measured out to exactly 2.25 and the Renegade was about 2.34.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

tick_magnet said:


> I have been using Aspens and Renegade Controls (old version not the new T5 version) over the last two seasons. The Aspen is a better front tire. But as a rear tire, the Aspen is really pretty mediocre. I honestly can't find any upsides to it. Crappy braking, easy to lose the rear end when cornering, not compliant over roots and bounces all over the place even at low pressures, and wears out in about 500 miles. I've never experienced a tire that is so decent on the front and so crappy as a rear. I don't understand it. No wonder the pros had them develop a 170tpi version because the 120 version is essentially useless as a rear tire.
> 
> The Renegade is everything the Aspen is not as a rear tire. Good braking, lots of control and predictability, super compliant with minimal bounce over roots, and will last 1500 miles before you need to replace it. The compiance also makes it really fast over rough terrain off-road,
> 
> The Aspen 2.25 and the Renegade control 2.3 weighed about the same on my scale (around 650g). The Aspen measured out to exactly 2.25 and the Renegade was about 2.34.


That isa fantastic comparison! Sounds like I will give a renegade a go on the rear.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

Some data point:
30mm ID rim:
Wolfpack MTB Cross 2.4 as front tire-> Perfect as front tire so far.

Wolfpack MTB Speed 2.25 as rear tire-> *Tread pattern is too narrow*. Side knobs are clearly inside the widest point of the tire casing and thus the tire lose traction in corner easily when leaned. Avoid put 2.25 Speed on 30mm ID rim.

Wolfpack MTB Race 2.25 as rear tire-> Tread pattern is wider than MTB Speed 2.25 with more outward and taller side knobs. It works fine on 30mm ID rim. Traction is nice. However, it feel slightly slower than MTB Speed. *Maybe, because side knobs are being used to roll on flat ground with 30mm ID rim*.

Wolfpack MTB Speed 2.4 as rear tire -> Now, we're rolling! The tire has rounded shape where side knobs barely touch the ground on straight line. And side knobs sit wide enough that it function well leaned over in corner using 30mm ID rim. And it's fast.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

My trails have moved to fully leaf covered. I picked up my first Forekaster 2.35 to try. Going to pair it with a Rekon 2.25 rear. REI has a members coupon that works for 20% on Maxxis, just FYI.


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## joecx (Aug 17, 2013)

Anyone interested in some tires I have 1 new Aspen 2.4 and a Rekon Race/Aspen 2.4 combo that have less than 10 hour in sandy hard pack and in great condition. PM with any reasonable offer.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I'd like to see the XC WT offerings expanded a bit. 

And tanwall, please. :^)


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Dear maxxis,

I’d be in heaven with a tan wall forekaster to go with my Rekon race.

I also think maxxis is missing out in lots of $$ not having a tan Aspen. 

Sincerely, 

Snoozer


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## BikeRider775 (Dec 1, 2021)

LMN said:


> I still really like the old Ikons. They have been around forever but they still do good a job of juggling, grip, weight, rolling resistance, reliability and durability.


I agree. I run Ikons on my XC bike and they just work. I put a premium on reliability and durability.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

BikeRider775 said:


> I agree. I run Ikons on my XC bike and they just work. I put a premium on reliability and durability.


Pretty soon, every XC tire is going to be heavier than the giant 2.35 ikon. 

Heck even new Aspens are far heavier than my old Ikon. That was heavy in 2016 terms. 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Pretty soon, every XC tire is going to be heavier than the giant 2.35 ikon.
> 
> Heck even new Aspens are far heavier than my old Ikon. That was heavy in 2016 terms.


That is the reality of our new XC bikes. As capability has increased tires have had to thicker and tougher to match. 

It is crazy that we are now racing with tires north of 700 grams.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

A 2.2" Rekon Race is heavier than a 2.35" Ikon.
I like the Rekon Race's, but I'd still be running the Fasttrak/Renegade combo if I could get them locally.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> A 2.2" Rekon Race is heavier than a 2.35" Ikon.
> I like the Rekon Race's, but I'd still be running the Fasttrak/Renegade combo if I could get them locally.


Ive had 12 2.25 Rekon races and all were between 670 and 707 except for 2. My last batch of 60tpi tan walls we re heavy at 720.

Every ikon 2.35 I have ever owned was 735-745g

This is comparing all EXO, because I don’t have any trails I race/ride on where I wouldn’t run EXO. 

My 2.35 tan wall 2.35s Rekon Race were all around 770 (I bought a box of 6. )


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

735g for my Ikon 2.35's
740 & 755g for my OEM take-off Rekon Race 2.25's.



FJSnoozer said:


> Ive had 12 2.25 Rekon races and all were between 670 and 707 except for 2. My last batch of 60tpi tan walls we re heavy at 720.
> 
> Every ikon 2.35 I have ever owned was 735-745g
> 
> ...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Ive had 12 2.25 Rekon races and all were between 670 and 707 except for 2. My last batch of 60tpi tan walls we re heavy at 720.
> 
> Every ikon 2.35 I have ever owned was 735-745g
> 
> ...


Interesting that the Ikon 2.35 is now a comparable weight. Those 2.35s are my favorite all around tire. They are the goto tire for the rear of the my light trail bikes.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

LMN said:


> Interesting that the Ikon 2.35 is now a comparable weight. Those 2.35s are my favorite all around tire. They are the goto tire for the rear of the my light trail bikes.


What do you pair it with up front? The Ikon’s gigantic casing complicates things, for me, at least aesthetically. It’s bigger than my favourite 2.4s… Maybe a 2.5 DHF?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

PlanB said:


> What do you pair it with up front? The Ikon’s gigantic casing complicates things, for me, at least aesthetically. It’s bigger than my favourite 2.4s… Maybe a 2.5 DHF?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really like the 2.4 Rekon on the front, or a 2.3 DHF. 

The 2.5 DHF is too much tire for a light trail bike IMHO. Plus the 2.5 doesn't balance well with Ikon, I find if I over grip the front tire I end up chasing the back of the bike (but I am guilty of under weighting the rear tire).

And really a 2.35Ikon is actually not a bad front tire. 2.35 Ikons front and rear would be my set-up for something like ST6 or BC bike race.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> 735g for my Ikon 2.35's
> 740 & 755g for my OEM take-off Rekon Race 2.25's.


Yeah, OEM white label maxxis are not the same and are usually heavier. I have seen the oem Aspens2.25 approaching 700g where the 120tpi standard yellows are 645ish. 


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## WithOrWithout87 (Jul 2, 2020)

FJSnoozer said:


> Yeah, OEM white label maxxis are not the same and are usually heavier. I have seen the oem Aspens2.25 approaching 700g where the 120tpi standard yellows are 645ish.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a pair of white label Ikon 2.35s hanging in my shed that are 780-790

which sucks because it’s my front tire of choice with Aspen 2.25 rear


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

WithOrWithout87 said:


> I have a pair of white label Ikon 2.35s hanging in my shed that are 780-790
> 
> which sucks because it’s my front tire of choice with Aspen 2.25 rear


I'm tempted to try an Ikon 2.35/Rekon Race 2.2 combo once it drys out enough to remove the Forekaster (good but slow rolling) on the front.


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## WithOrWithout87 (Jul 2, 2020)

NordieBoy said:


> I'm tempted to try an Ikon 2.35/Rekon Race 2.2 combo once it drys out enough to remove the Forekaster (good but slow rolling) on the front.


Let me know how you like this combo.

Id like to try the Rekon Race in the back but it doesn’t seem like it would be much of a change from the Aspen. Just a little heavier.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

WithOrWithout87 said:


> Id like to try the Rekon Race in the back but it doesn’t seem like it would be much of a change from the Aspen. Just a little heavier.


New I can't really tell much a difference between the RR and the Aspen. The Aspen is a bit better in the wet than new, but the RR sets a super low wet conditions performance bar. But I feel the Aspen gives up grip with wear way quicker than the RR.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Maybe it was just me and my lack of skills or my narrow 22mm ID rims but I tried the 2.35 Ikon as a front tire and didn't like it. I found it didn't give me any warning before it would wash out in the front in corners. Some tires will give you a little warning...maybe the 22mm rims made the profile of the big 2.35 too round?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Maybe it was just me and my lack of skills or my narrow 22mm ID rims but I tried the 2.35 Ikon as a front tire and didn't like it. I found it didn't give me any warning before it would wash out in the front in corners. Some tires will give you a little warning...maybe the 22mm rims made the profile of the big 2.35 too round?


I think your assessment is bang on.

I wouldn't describe the Ikon as a tire that wants you to get the bike on edge and carve turns. In the Maxxis line-up probably the Arden Race or Forecaster are best XC tires for this. What I found was the 2.35 Ikon made it easier for me to hit some lines that had tricky entrances. I think size combined with small side knobs allows this, I find the 2.4 Aspen to be similar.


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## WithOrWithout87 (Jul 2, 2020)

LMN said:


> I think your assessment is bang on.
> 
> I wouldn't describe the Ikon as a tire that wants you to get the bike on edge and carve turns. In the Maxxis line-up probably the Arden Race or Forecaster are best XC tires for this. What I found was the 2.35 Ikon made it easier for me to hit some lines that had tricky entrances. I think size combined with small side knobs allows this, I find the 2.4 Aspen to be similar.


Which tire do you think corners better in front? Aspen 2.4 or Ikon 2.35?

I’ve thought about going 2.4 Aspen front and rear. It seems like this is far and away the most popular tire combo with fast riders


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

LMN said:


> I wouldn't describe the Ikon as a tire that wants you to get the bike on edge and carve turns. In the Maxxis line-up probably the Arden Race or Forecaster are best XC tires for this. What I found was the 2.35 Ikon made it easier for me to hit some lines that had tricky entrances. I think size combined with small side knobs allows this, I find the 2.4 Aspen to be similar.


This was my Ikon experience as well, couldn't understand why people liked em I just ended up on the ground too often. Switched from those to Gripton Renegades and gained cornering traction which blew my mind. I'm the Vittoria fanboy here but the new Maxxis like Rekon/Ardent Race and Forekaster look like a great improvement over the old ones like the Ikon.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

WithOrWithout87 said:


> Let me know how you like this combo.
> 
> Id like to try the Rekon Race in the back but it doesn’t seem like it would be much of a change from the Aspen. Just a little heavier.


Significantly different braking characteristics. Aspen skips all over the place on any loose over hard. The chevrons rip off the tire casing and things get even worse from there. 


Rekon races wear more steadily, but the short knobs still don’t last a long time as a rear tire. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

My Anthem has a ForeKaster/Rekon Race combo at the moment.
For hard pack racing, RR's front and rear went very nicely, the side knobs worked well in the corners and they rolled FAST.
Was coasting behind people who were pedalling some sections.
The Forekaster is much slower, much more grip in any conditions that let the knobs dig a little, but weigh the same.

My Unit has a Fasttrak/Renegade (both gripton control) combo.
Lighter (noticeably so), roll as well, VERY supple, not as much cornering grip as the RR on the front.
Better climbing traction, not as good in the wet.

I prefer the Specialized price, weight and suppleness.
I prefer the Maxxis rubber compound and robustness (Grid is more EXO+ level and too much IMO).

Will be interesting to try the Rekon Races on the Unit. Could be the perfect tyres for what I use it for.


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## goofyarcher (Jul 12, 2020)

Check the Wt of max terra. They are very light

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## oab1 (Apr 18, 2018)

Does anyone know of an equivalent tire to a bontrager xr3 from the other major manufacturers?

I'm thinking Barzo, Rekon race, or fast trak? I have been really happy with the new XR3 front in Socal, but they aren't available right now and I want to try some skin walls.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Rekon Race front & rear, Fasttrak front - Renegade rear.
Barzo - Mezcal combo is similar to Forekaster - Rekon Race.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I know its unlikely but has anybody used conti race kings, maxxis aspens, and the new Specialized renegade? Wondering how these super fast xc tires compare.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Actually, I have used them all. The continental is the fastest rolling, but definitely the most fragile. Light weight but prone to being torn open on rocks. Not so much the sidewall, but the area on the surface between the tread blocks.

The renegade rolls almost as fast, not as grippy as the continental nor as grippy as the Aspen. Good all around tire, but the T5 compound in the control tire is not super grippy. Surprisingly robust over rocks, much more so than the continental.

The Aspen is an interesting mix of the two, a little less quick rolling than the renegade, excellent ride feel with a well damped carcass, not as traction-y as the continental. Poor braking traction on the rear. Also surprisingly durable.

My ideal tire would be if continental would release the Race King in a 2.4 inch version with a slightly beefed up carcass. I may try the 2.2 front and rear next year with a Cushcore in the rear. This tire is a freaking weapon as far as the rolling speed is concerned and the traction is more than sufficient. I just am tired of DNFing races.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

tommyrod74 said:


> Actually, I have used them all. The continental is the fastest rolling, but definitely the most fragile. Light weight but prone to being torn open on rocks. Not so much the sidewall, but the area on the surface between the tread blocks.
> 
> The renegade rolls almost as fast, not as grippy as the continental nor as grippy as the Aspen. Good all around tire, but the T5 compound in the control tire is not super grippy. Surprisingly robust over rocks, much more so than the continental.
> 
> ...


Wow fantastic review of each tire! Sounds like I will be grabbing a set of race kings. How are they traction wise conpared to the Aspen? I had multiple races last year where the front end broke loose with an Aspen up front.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

utmtbrider said:


> Wow fantastic review of each tire! Sounds like I will be grabbing a set of race kings. How are they traction wise conpared to the Aspen? I had multiple races last year where the front end broke loose with an Aspen up front.


Noticeably better traction. Still a race tire. They deserve a 2.3 or 2.4 update.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

On the rolling resistance website the Race King isn't just a little faster than the other XC race tires, it's a lot faster whereas the others are all grouped together. 
I'd love to rock one on my Spur however my terrain is much too rocky. 

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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Suns_PSD said:


> On the rolling resistance website the Race King isn't just a little faster than the other XC race tires, it's a lot faster whereas the others are all grouped together.
> I'd love to rock one on my Spur however my terrain is much too rocky.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Yeah, my individual observations jive with those data. For example, the renegade and Aspen feel very similar to each other as far as rolling resistance is concerned. The Racing Ralph feels a little faster than those. The continental feels nothing like any of them, it is noticeably faster and it’s not subtle.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

tommyrod74 said:


> Yeah, my individual observations jive with those data. For example, the renegade and Aspen feel very similar to each other as far as rolling resistance is concerned. The Racing Ralph feels a little faster than those. The continental feels nothing like any of them, it is noticeably faster and it’s not subtle.


Your info is super helpful and appreciated. Considering it is quite a bit faster and doesn't sacrifice traction I am surprised it isn't a more popular race tire. I have literally never seen anybody in my local races use Conti tires.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

utmtbrider said:


> Your info is super helpful and appreciated. Considering it is quite a bit faster and doesn't sacrifice traction I am surprised it isn't a more popular race tire. I have literally never seen anybody in my local races use Conti tires.


Remember that while traction is good (and surprisingly decent even in somewhat wet conditions), it's still a race tire, and very light. Also, it's an older design (though updated a couple of years back), so probably off the radar for a lot of people.

Of course, Pidcock rode them to a gold medal in Tokyo...


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

utmtbrider said:


> Your info is super helpful and appreciated. Considering it is quite a bit faster and doesn't sacrifice traction I am surprised it isn't a more popular race tire. I have literally never seen anybody in my local races use Conti tires.


Shhhh...Combined with inserts to facilitate lower pressure, they are my cheater tires and super secret weapon. Don't let the secret out. 

The revised tread pattern looks much like the old version, but works far better. I agree a 2.4 would be perfect for XC racing.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

tommyrod74 said:


> Remember that while traction is good (and surprisingly decent even in somewhat wet conditions), it's still a race tire, and very light. Also, it's an older design (though updated a couple of years back), so probably off the radar for a lot of people.
> 
> Of course, Pidcock rode them to a gold medal in Tokyo...


Pidcock used a prototype version at the Olympics which is rumored to be wider than the current 2.2 offering (which is a narrow 2.2 to begin with).


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> On the rolling resistance website the Race King isn't just a little faster than the other XC race tires, it's a lot faster whereas the others are all grouped together.
> I'd love to rock one on my Spur however my terrain is much too rocky.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


That website is complete BS. I’ve done back to back testing multiple times in tires they say are 25 watts apart. On trail and pavement. 

He tests a tire with who knows what controls and with a tube in them. He also doesn’t test them at real MTB pressures, doesn’t get them dirty before test. 

Every brand tire is shipped with its own unique coating. Living in a high rise with concrete floors this is extremely noticeable. A maxxis tire is practically stuck to the floor and hard to move when first installed as it digs into polished concrete. The Schwalbe of all types, rocket Ron - magic Mary have a greasy coating (assume it helps with dry rot) that glides across the floor. 


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The Race King is amazingly fast. 


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

utmtbrider said:


> Your info is super helpful and appreciated. Considering it is quite a bit faster and doesn't sacrifice traction I am surprised it isn't a more popular race tire. I have literally never seen anybody in my local races use Conti tires.


Here in Sweden the original Race King was a super popular tire when it came out (must be 10+ years ago), very fast rolling with a high air chamber. As tubeless became more popular Schwalbe took over and many German bike brands started to have Schwalbe on the bikes when they delivered them, so people continued with Schwalbe. The old Continentals were not that easy to setup tubeless either with leaking side walls.

@tommyrod74 what version are you running, is it the Protection or Racesport version?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

MessagefromTate said:


> Pidcock used a prototype version at the Olympics which is rumored to be wider than the current 2.2 offering (which is a narrow 2.2 to begin with).


If true, that means Continental already has the mold for a bigger Race King. Why aren't they making them available to the public? I have the 2.2 Race King Protections on my rigid Scott Scale hardtail and use it for chunky gravel. They are indeed fast. But I like a bigger tire for singletrack and currently use 2.35 Fast Trak front, 2.35 Renegade rear on my Epic hardtail.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I'd be interested in trying a new big volume Race King. I did not like the 2018 version. The carcass was terrible - stiff, bouncy, and not compliant. It was fast on smooth surfaces but would cost you tons of momentum on roots and rocks.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Skier78 said:


> Here in Sweden the original Race King was a super popular tire when it came out (must be 10+ years ago), very fast rolling with a high air chamber. As tubeless became more popular Schwalbe took over and many German bike brands started to have Schwalbe on the bikes when they delivered them, so people continued with Schwalbe. The old Continentals were not that easy to setup tubeless either with leaking side walls.
> 
> @tommyrod74 what version are you running, is it the Protection or Racesport version?


Protection. The sidewalls are fine; the tread area is where it is flimsy.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> That website is complete BS. I’ve done back to back testing multiple times in tires they say are 25 watts apart. On trail and pavement.
> 
> He tests a tire with who knows what controls and with a tube in them. He also doesn’t test them at real MTB pressures, doesn’t get them dirty before test.
> 
> ...


The tests certainly could be ran better and be more applicable to our usage. Pressure and of course a bumpier drum that more closely matched off-road terrain would be helpful. That said I've found his measurements congruent with my own observations.

Yes, the Maxxis tires are very draggy for the first 20-30 minutes of ride time, it's quite noticeable to me.

Mountain Bike Tires Test Results | Bicycle Rolling Resistance


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> The tests certainly could be ran better and be more applicable to our usage. Pressure and of course a bumpier drum that more closely matched off-road terrain would be helpful. That said I've found his measurements congruent with my own observations.
> 
> Yes, the Maxxis tires are very draggy for the first 20-30 minutes of ride time, it's quite noticeable to me.
> 
> Mountain Bike Tires Test Results | Bicycle Rolling Resistance


Ive even run the Schwalbe big ones on his list. They are not 25 watts faster than anything on concrete. I’ve gone up and down his list of tires and ridden them up and down S walnut. Over and over expecting free speed and getting nothing. 

No one rides on diamond plate steel. 

Not to mention the manufacturing hairs on a Schwalbe affect friction significantly. This guys site is a waste of time and too many people use it as gospel. 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Ive even run the Schwalbe big ones on his list. They are not 25 watts faster than anything on concrete. I’ve gone up and down his list of tires and ridden them up and down S walnut. Over and over expecting free speed and getting nothing.
> 
> No one rides on diamond plate steel.
> 
> ...


It is really easy to get suckered by something that sound like a good study. All of have had that happen to us at some point.

I know when I first when I first saw this guys data I was excited and then after diving into it just a little bit I found that it wasn't actually matching my real world experience. Then I looked at how he tested and it became pretty clear why his data is flawed. He test every tire no matter what the size or casing at the same pressure. In the real world we set our pressures to match the tire size and casing. 

And never mind the fact that pavement and dirt data are different.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

tick_magnet said:


> I'd be interested in trying a new big volume Race King. I did not like the 2018 version. The carcass was terrible - stiff, bouncy, and not compliant. It was fast on smooth surfaces but would cost you tons of momentum on roots and rocks.


The 2020 version casing was updated significantly and only has the Protection layer on the sidewalls, no longer under the tread, and much less dead than the old version. You can run LOW pressures with these tires still, which I think is awesome for root compliance and lowered rolling resistance on soft surfaces.

Again, I love the new version with inserts. Regarding the width. The casing isn't narrow, it's a true 2.2, if not a hair bigger. But the tread width is less than that, at about 2.1.

They aren't perfect, but I find that I rarely feel like taking them off the bike once I've put them on the bike.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

brentos said:


> The 2020 version casing was updated significantly and only has the Protection layer on the sidewalls, no longer under the tread, and much less dead than the old version. You can run LOW pressures with these tires still, which I think is awesome for root compliance and lowered rolling resistance on soft surfaces.
> 
> Again, I love the new version with inserts. Regarding the width. The casing isn't narrow, it's a true 2.2, if not a hair bigger. But the tread width is less than that, at about 2.1.
> 
> They aren't perfect, but I find that I rarely feel like taking them off the bike once I've put them on the bike.


what inserts do you run with these, and how much do they weigh? I honestly have zero experience with running tire inserts, but would consider it if it allowed me to run these tires with no worries of flatting.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

My last bike came with Aspens, I really wasn't impressed with them in my area. Rear would spin on the steep stuff, front just didn't have bite leaned over. Put on a Ra/Ray combo and felt good again. Raced that all last year.

Doing the local winter series this year, will try and swap tires a few times with what I have for some comparisons. Looking forward to seeing if my positive experience on the Ikons was just a fluke or not, but I liked them a few years ago.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Sidewalk said:


> My last bike came with Aspens, I really wasn't impressed with them in my area. Rear would spin on the steep stuff, front just didn't have bite leaned over. Put on a Ra/Ray combo and felt good again. Raced that all last year.
> 
> Doing the local winter series this year, will try and swap tires a few times with what I have for some comparisons. Looking forward to seeing if my positive experience on the Ikons was just a fluke or not, but I liked them a few years ago.


Same here planning on trying out some Race Kings. I had the same experience with aspens, super easy to break loose and very unpredictable.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Trying a 2.25 Mezcal XC-Trail rear to compare to the Ikon 2.25 on the FS SS to try and keep good rolling but with better standing climbing.
It's faster rolling, but at the same pressure (20psi) is about the same for traction which surprised me as there's no ramping on the leading edges at all.
Will try at 18psi next time to see if compliance increases or it just gets squirrely.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

tommyrod74 said:


> what inserts do you run with these, and how much do they weigh? I honestly have zero experience with running tire inserts, but would consider it if it allowed me to run these tires with no worries of flatting.


I'm running Rimpact inserts and am quite happy with them. From memory, they're about 90g per insert.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Trying a 2.25 Mezcal XC-Trail rear to compare to the Ikon 2.25 on the FS SS to try and keep good rolling but with better standing climbing.
> It's faster rolling, but at the same pressure (20psi) is about the same for traction which surprised me as there's no ramping on the leading edges at all.
> Will try at 18psi next time to see if compliance increases or it just gets squirrelly.


It just got squirrelly.
Tried a 2.35 XC-Trail Mezcal on the front at 18psi and they are REALLY fast.
Should be a good dry condition combo and as it gets wetter, a Forekaster on the front.

The 2.25 Mezcal measures up at 57.6mm on an i25 rim.
The 2.35 Mezcal measures up at 56.3mm on an i25 rim.
The 2.25 has been on for a few days so I hope the 2.35 stretches a bit...


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I really liked the Mezcal when it was new. But as it wears a little bit, front end grip is getting a little drifty. The knobs still look good and square so I'm a bit confused about why it doesn't stick like before. Maybe it's psychological. I'd be interested to hear about your experiences after a few miles on them.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Sidewalk said:


> My last bike came with Aspens, I really wasn't impressed with them in my area. Rear would spin on the steep stuff, front just didn't have bite leaned over. Put on a Ra/Ray combo and felt good again. Raced that all last year.
> 
> Doing the local winter series this year, will try and swap tires a few times with what I have for some comparisons. Looking forward to seeing if my positive experience on the Ikons was just a fluke or not, but I liked them a few years ago.


That’s my wife’s go-to combo! Everything from racing to trail riding. I can tell from riding with her that the racing ralph has a significant climbing traction advantage over any of her other tires, even back to back with the Nobby Nic some how. 

She just loves that Ray front as well. It really shows in her cornering speed and results in a lot less braking when I tailgate her. 

We are reallly bummed that the new versions are about 70 grams heavier, but that’s just a cost of business.

We did find over time that she needed a little more psi to prevent rim strike/flats in races. (That’s one of her specialties). Surprisingly she runs 18/20 FR.) I also think the new specialize rovals she is in are light years better than the previous version (strength/pinch flat resistance) but I haven’t talked her in to dropping psi. She’d rather just win finish and try to win, and I can’t blame her. 


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

tick_magnet said:


> I really liked the Mezcal when it was new. But as it wears a little bit, front end grip is getting a little drifty. The knobs still look good and square so I'm a bit confused about why it doesn't stick like before. Maybe it's psychological. I'd be interested to hear about your experiences after a few miles on them.


I've noticed the same with Vittoria tires in general and wonder if the higher traction graphene is only a surface layer that gets worn away easily. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## Hrodulf (12 mo ago)

For me this year, 2x Maxxis Ikon 2.2 as being the best compromise on my tracks (hard pack, loose over hard in the summer, wet / slightly muddy in the winter, early spring).

I have also tested 2.25 Rekon Race f/r, also a great tyre in most of the situations I have tested them. But... I found them wearing fast and the Ikon's being simply faster. I like the side grip of the RR compared with the Ikon's though.

I also tested the 2.25 RR rear with Rekon 2.25 Maxx Speed front. The Rekon on the front is really scary once it is even slightly wet or humid on the trails !! The Rekon washed out twice with no warning at all resulting in a crash. That were the only times I've crashed in 2021...

Ardent 2.25 Front, Ikon 2.2 rear. Another great combo. Fast and with the Ardent you really can lean a lot in fast corners with your body weight. Great tyre ! But a bit too much knob for where I ride or my needs. 

Forekaster 2.2 front, Rekon Race 2.25 rear. Great combo in wet... But also in loose over hard / loose / sandy conditions. Basically the Forekaster performs on everything besides hard pack. I love the Forekaster. It is a very versatile tyre. If I would not racing, the Forekaster / Rekon Race would be my go-to combo.

The Forekaster, Ardent and Rekon I have used were true to their advertised weight. The Rekon Race and Ikon were overweighted.

The Ikon's I have been using are the black 120TPI ones and I am currently riding the Dark Tan Wall 60TPI ones. I do not notice any performance differences or difference in suppleness at all between 120TPI and 60TPI.

All tyres I have been testing or still being used are EXO.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> That’s my wife’s go-to combo! Everything from racing to trail riding. I can tell from riding with her that the racing ralph has a significant climbing traction advantage over any of her other tires, even back to back with the Nobby Nic some how.
> 
> She just loves that Ray front as well. It really shows in her cornering speed and results in a lot less braking when I tailgate her.
> 
> ...


Does the Ralph/ Ray combo work for you as well, or are they tires that work better for a lighter rider?

Thx. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Does the Ralph/ Ray combo work for you as well, or are they tires that work better for a lighter rider?
> 
> Thx.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


I think they would have way more grip that what I have. 

I’m super tempted to try them out, but I’m too vain to give up maxxis tan walls.

To me, 2.35 Schwalbe casings have been unbelievably reliable. 2.25 are a little more punch flat prone for as hard as We ride the greenbelt. 


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> The 2.25 Mezcal measures up at 57.6mm on an i25 rim.
> The 2.35 Mezcal measures up at 56.3mm on an i25 rim.
> The 2.25 has been on for a few days so I hope the 2.35 stretches a bit...


The 2.35 stretched - It's now 57.2mm.
The 2.25 is still wider


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> I've noticed the same with Vittoria tires in general and wonder if the higher traction graphene is only a surface layer that gets worn away easily.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


That's really interesting. I'll have to monitor that.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> The 2.35 stretched - It's now 57.2mm.
> The 2.25 is still wider


I heard this was a thing with Vittoria sizing...crazy that the 2.25 is wider than the 2.35. How does the factory mess that up?


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> I heard this was a thing with Vittoria sizing...crazy that the 2.25 is wider than the 2.35. How does the factory mess that up?


QC/Tolerances.

2.25" = 57.15mm
2.35" = 59.69mm

A 5% + or - is almost 3mm making the smaller size to be possibly larger than the other


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> The 2.35 stretched - It's now 57.2mm.
> The 2.25 is still wider


Which color sidewall tires did you get? I have the grey/trail versions and they set up wider than 2.2 icons on 25mm rims. 

A friend of mine purchased some 2.35 mezcals and said they were really narrow as well. I need to check with him and see which version he purchased.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> The 2.35 stretched - It's now 57.2mm.
> The 2.25 is still wider


I have a healthy suspicion of marketing. 
Five years ago if you made a tire that was a 2.35 you labelled it as a 2.25 because a 2.35 was too big for XC racing. Now if you make a tire that is a 2.25 you label it as a 2.35 because a 2.25 is too narrow for XC racing.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

LMN said:


> I have a healthy suspicion of marketing.
> Five years ago if you made a tire that was a 2.35 you labelled it as a 2.25 because a 2.35 was too big for XC racing. Now if you make a tire that is a 2.25 you label it as a 2.35 because a 2.25 is too narrow for XC racing.


Or you finally make a true 2.35 call it a 2.5 WT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Or you finally make a true 2.35 call it a 2.5 WT


In all seriousness, I never actually measure tire size. I use a rather simple criteria, does the tire work well. And I don't believe this is actually tied to tire width as much as is believed.

One trend that our larger labelled tires have is much bigger knob size. The knob size between a 2.2 Rekon Race and a 2.35 Rekon Race is significant, casing size not so much. I think it is that significant increase in knob size that makes the 2.35 RR a much better tire. This is pattern that I have noticed across a lot of different tires.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

> NordieBoy said:
> 
> 
> > The 2.35 stretched - It's now 57.2mm.
> > The 2.25 is still wider





Stonerider said:


> I heard this was a thing with Vittoria sizing...crazy that the 2.25 is wider than the 2.35. How does the factory mess that up?


I've been using Mezcal 2.35 for years (about 6 sets of tires) and they have all measure 2.35 +/- 0.02mm. The trick with the 2.35 Mezcals is to inflate them to max PSI (50+ PSI) and let them sit a day or 2 in warm/hot conditions. Ideally in the sun or a warm garage during summer. In the winter, a warm room then cover them with blankets should do the trick. When I've mounted 2.35s brand new they always measure around 2.25 using electronic calipers, but after the above procedure stretch to 2.35. For some reason the 2.25s don't usually require stretching. This is on 24.5 and 26.5 id rims (Synthesis XCT 11). The tires measure the same even though they have different id.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Deleted by poster.


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## mrtahiti80 (Nov 6, 2021)

Odered two Syerra's. I weight 195lbs and around 210 wet. I ride aggressive and I ride as hard as my dv9 allows me. Over the years I've found that even though low pressures feel great, I seem to tear and puncture tires easily when I get the rear too low. I haven't had many punctures in the rear to be of significance.

At $79 these tires better hold up at least a year. Crazy how expensive tires are.

Anyways...I'm planning to inflate the rear from 32psi to 35psi and front 25 to 28psi



https://www.vittoria.com/us/en/tires/mtb-xc/syerra


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## Travis McOuat (Jan 14, 2015)

Hexsense said:


> Some data point:
> 30mm ID rim:
> Wolfpack MTB Cross 2.4 as front tire-> Perfect as front tire so far.
> 
> ...


Hexense - really good run down on the Wolfpack tires. I have ridden the 2.25 race, the 2.25 speed and the 2.4 speed.

The race is junk, from a handling perspective. I simply can't imagine why they would put the side knobs inside the transition knobs. Makes for very poor cornering, and that's where it counts right? Traction is good when climbing or braking in a straight line. Cornering inspires little confidence.

The speed is a whole-nuther animal. Awesome tire. I run 2.25 on 30mm IW rims. I mounted the 2.4 f/r and it was ok. I notice the lighter feel of the 2.25. I found no difference in cornering, or possibly I liked the 2.4 a bit less. Seems weird, but that was my feeling. The 2.4 also seems a bit slower with more drag - again the opposite of your experience, but it probably just riding style and conditions. I will note that speed rolls poorly on pavement, IMO, compared to Rray/rara or Aspen. Once you hit dirt though it all changes. Grip is very good and cornering is as good as you can expect on this tire - as good or better than competitors. My second wheelset runs 2.1 Aspens. 3rd currently running 2.25 rray and rara. I much prefer the old 2018 rara, especially on the turns. The treat pattern of the wp speed is very similar.


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## Travis McOuat (Jan 14, 2015)

FJSnoozer said:


> I think they would have way more grip that what I have.
> 
> I’m super tempted to try them out, but I’m too vain to give up maxxis tan walls.
> 
> ...


FJ Snoozer,

I'm running the rray/rara 2.25 right now. Very fast, but not as good in the corners as the old rara. I'm perplexed by the "triangle" shaped side knobs as opposed flat edged knobs on most xc tires. I read there is some theory behind it and many riders like these tires, but they are not for me unless it's hardpack - but then I'll ride a lighter tread tire like Aspen or even Thunderburt. So, I have them mounted on a wheelset and I'll continue to check them out.

Another weird thing is the minimum psi of 29. I used the Schalbe pressure calculator and it gave me 29f/31r, which seems insane. I am usually at 18-22 depending on the tire. However, I think they are designed to ride at higher pressures and the side knobs to seem to grip more, the ride is rough though.

Just my 2 cents.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

New bike I've picked up for racing has Specialized Ground Control T5 2.35 F+R. It's a long time since I raced but on the dozens of hundred milers I raced I was pretty much always on 2.2 Ikon's F+R.

I've zero experience with Specialized tyres. The Ground Control look okay for a lighter weight trail bike tyre, but a little weighty out back for racing 100 miles on. Do I stay Specialized and put a 2.35 Fast Track on the back or revert to an Ikon?


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

I like the 2.35" Renegade front and rear, but a more conservative choice would be Fast Trak front/Renegade rear.


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

6thElement said:


> New bike I've picked up for racing has Specialized Ground Control T5 2.35 F+R. It's a long time since I raced but on the dozens of hundred milers I raced I was pretty much always on 2.2 Ikon's F+R.
> 
> I've zero experience with Specialized tyres. The Ground Control look okay for a lighter weight trail bike tyre, but a little weighty out back for racing 100 miles on. Do I stay Specialized and put a 2.35 Fast Track on the back or revert to an Ikon?


If they're fitted already, why not given them a try? Better than asking the subjective option of someone else


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

You can always try them. I find them too much for racing, a great training or trail bike tire.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

6thElement said:


> New bike I've picked up for racing has Specialized Ground Control T5 2.35 F+R. It's a long time since I raced but on the dozens of hundred milers I raced I was pretty much always on 2.2 Ikon's F+R.
> 
> I've zero experience with Specialized tyres. The Ground Control look okay for a lighter weight trail bike tyre, but a little weighty out back for racing 100 miles on. Do I stay Specialized and put a 2.35 Fast Track on the back or revert to an Ikon?


Great for out of the saddle climbing on the rear. Roll better than they look like they should too.


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## oab1 (Apr 18, 2018)

I just installed the new specialized ground control / fast trak T5 combo on my bike. I like the ground control alot so far. The fast trak is a little underwhelming as a rear tire , I don't think it is as well suited out back as it might be up front.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm back on my 'old' Mezcals so far this year (2 races), they feel very fast, good grip in most all conditions (some wet, roots, rocks, and also packed, and marbles), - I imagine they're not as good in heavier mud, I have a 'mud bike' (my old hardtail) for those days with Forekaster rr and 2.35 Ardent fr. I should probably put the Rocket Rons back on the fs race bike, they are really light, about 610g per tire, about 120g less than my Mezcals. The Rons are fast too, I have those on some carbon wheels for my hardtail that I used for a cyclocross race last October, I think I got 4th with that bike in Cat1/2 45-54, - so they're 'proven' fast on grass, 'loosepack' and pavement. Yeah, next race is more punchy up/down, I'd probably benefit from the lighter tires for that one, I guess I'd better put the Rons back on...


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

jimPacNW said:


> I'm back on my 'old' Mezcals so far this year (2 races), they feel very fast, good grip in most all conditions (some wet, roots, rocks, and also packed, and marbles), - I imagine they're not as good in heavier mud, I have a 'mud bike' (my old hardtail) for those days with Forekaster rr and 2.35 Ardent fr. I should probably put the Rocket Rons back on the fs race bike, they are really light, about 610g per tire, about 120g less than my Mezcals. The Rons are fast too, I have those on some carbon wheels for my hardtail that I used for a cyclocross race last October, I think I got 4th with that bike in Cat1/2 45-54, - so they're 'proven' fast on grass, 'loosepack' and pavement. Yeah, next race is more punchy up/down, I'd probably benefit from the lighter tires for that one, I guess I'd better put the Rons back on...


I think the old Rons are unbeatable personally... super light, fast and decent enough grip even in mud. And most importantly for me, they break out very controllably... with Ralphs I'd be on floor, with Rons I just drift it.


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## darth tracer (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm running the GC front and rear at the moment for a lot of training miles, I'm thinking that I may just keep it up front and go Fast track in the rear for a little more speed. 




NordieBoy said:


> Great for out of the saddle climbing on the rear. Roll better than they look like they should too.


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Considering bicycle rolling resistance's data is probably naccurate what are the fastest xc combos f/r for hardpack and loose over hardpack? Im mainly considering race king 2.2s f/r and racing ray 2.25/thunder burt 2.1s


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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

Running Vittoria Barzo 2.35 front and Mezcal 2.35 rear. Fantastic combo for me here in Eastern PA. I run that combo on both single speed and suspension rigs. Was a little apprehensive about a 2.35 front but it’s been killer for me.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

Travis McOuat said:


> Hexense - really good run down on the Wolfpack tires. I have ridden the 2.25 race, the 2.25 speed and the 2.4 speed.
> 
> The speed is a whole-nuther animal. Awesome tire. I run 2.25 on 30mm IW rims. I mounted the 2.4 f/r and it was ok. I notice the lighter feel of the 2.25. I found no difference in cornering, or possibly I liked the 2.4 a bit less. Seems weird, but that was my feeling. The 2.4 also seems a bit slower with more drag - again the opposite of your experience, but it probably just riding style and conditions. I will note that speed rolls poorly on pavement, IMO, compared to Rray/rara or Aspen. Once you hit dirt though it all changes. Grip is very good and cornering is as good as you can expect on this tire - as good or better than competitors. My second wheelset runs 2.1 Aspens. 3rd currently running 2.25 rray and rara. I much prefer the old 2018 rara, especially on the turns. The treat pattern of the wp speed is very similar.


Maybe I like 2.4 and you like 2.25 on 30mm IW rim because we use different tire pressure?
I guess I find the cornering knobs of 2.25 to be too far inboard while cornering because I use 18psi on my rear wheel, which fold more and thus require more outward knobs.
I'd assume if you use higher tire pressure that'd change the load-on effective tire shape and knob location in a positive way.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Crayefish said:


> I think the old Rons are unbeatable personally... super light, fast and decent enough grip even in mud. And most importantly for me, they break out very controllably... with Ralphs I'd be on floor, with Rons I just drift it.


The old rons don’t exist any more. New rims are weighing in 130 grams heavier, which makes them almost a worthless trade off. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Travis McOuat said:


> FJ Snoozer,
> 
> I'm running the rray/rara 2.25 right now. Very fast, but not as good in the corners as the old rara. I'm perplexed by the "triangle" shaped side knobs as opposed flat edged knobs on most xc tires. I read there is some theory behind it and many riders like these tires, but they are not for me unless it's hardpack - but then I'll ride a lighter tread tire like Aspen or even Thunderburt. So, I have them mounted on a wheelset and I'll continue to check them out.
> 
> ...


Ive ridden both and old RARa are piece of crap compared to the new tires on our terrain. Our trails are either hardpack clay, all rock, or true loose AF over hard. 

We run them at normal psi below 20 psi just like any other tire. I don’t know what minimum psi you are referring too, but it isn’t necessary. If you ran them at those high pressures, that makes since why you wouldn’t like them. Any tire would be terrible compared to a properly aired race tire. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I put the 'old' 2.25x29 Rocket Rons back on for the race yesterday; damp 'loamy' dirt course with a few roots, - super happy with those tires for that course, great grip (confidence) and speed. These are the 610g -ish model.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

First race of teh season under the belt on the new Pireli Scorpion XC RC 2.2 Light. 
Superb tyre, so much grip and rolls like its always going downhill


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Brad said:


> First race of teh season under the belt on the new Pireli Scorpion XC RC 2.2 Light.
> Superb tyre, so much grip and rolls like its always going downhill


Any experience with durability of yet?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

They’re brand new and just completed their first race weekend. They come off tomorrow and the training tyres go back on. Generally Pirelli scorpion Mtb last well with the exception of the rear specific tyre. It’s high on grip but low on durability


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## akmtnrunner (Dec 12, 2020)

Brad said:


> They’re brand new and just completed their first race weekend. They come off tomorrow and the training tyres go back on. Generally Pirelli scorpion Mtb last well with the exception of the rear specific tyre. It’s high on grip but low on durability


Brad, how do these relate to more popular XC tires that you know?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

akmtnrunner said:


> Brad, how do these relate to more popular XC tires that you know?


Akmtrunner I’ve used quite a few of the popular race tyres like the Vittoria Mezcal, Maxxis Rekon Race, Pirelli Scorpion XC H , Schwalbe Racing Ray + Ralph as well as kenda Booster Pro SCT and Hutchinson new Python.
My previous benchmark was the Rekon Race with the Pirelli XC H second. The Schwalbe combo is lighter but punctured more easily. The grip on the Mezcal falls away after a few hundred km but even when new there still feels like there is a bit of slip before they bite similar to the Python. 
the Kenda Booster Pro are the most durable I’ve used but they come up a little short on volume and grip when really pushed hard. They’re a great training tyre.
The Rekon has a nice balance, the transition across the tread blocks was the best till I got the new Scorpion XC RC. I also kept the Rekon for race day only and they lasted well for a full season. My initial impression of the XC RC was similar to the Rekon but that there is a better trail feel and climbing traction. The XCRC is a newer design so I’d put it ahead of the Rekon and XCH with the Schwalbe combo next. Booster Pro would be my fave training tyre but it’s been out of stock for almost a year .


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad, 
What's the difference between the XC RC and XC RC Team? 
Also, how supple is the tire compared to the others you've used, like the Mezcal, Booster and Rekon Race?

Thanks


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> Brad,
> What's the difference between the XC RC and XC RC Team?
> Also, how supple is the tire compared to the others you've used, like the Mezcal, Booster and Rekon Race?
> 
> Thanks


No real difference to the team version other than yellow graphics.
The Lite version is in same supplenes as the Schwalbe Race casings and Kenda TR casing but tougher and a little heavier so I suspect a little more rubber


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Brad, how is the sizing coming up on the Pirelli Scorpion? Assume you have the 2.2"?

Think I'm going to try this tire when my Mezcal is ready for replacement on the rear, but likely in the 2.4"

Thanks


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The 2.2 measures a little over 2.2 on my 27mm internal width hookless rims. On my hollow gram 23 TR wheels they measured 2.2 exactly. I’m picking up the 2.4 Lite when they arrive hopefully in the next shipment


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I got the new Schwalbe racing ray / ralph superground in 2.35 combo. Put them on i25 rims at 21/25psi with Tubolight SL inserts. I am not fan. They squirm in corners. Not sure what they "right" PSI will be. I'll probably try 27/22 and call it good until they wear out. I measured their weights at Ray - 746. Ralph - 710g and I did appreciate how they felt going up. But, not really a fan of the squirm. 


I prefer the Barzo / Mezcal TNT combo that I have run in the past. The Schwalbe rubber compound is nice though.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Been running the Ralph/Ray for a while now, the rear is about toast, front is still working great. I forgot I had a brand new Burt I got on clearance and my next big race is all (likely all) hard pack and rock in Utah, so I think I am going to toss that Burt on. I will save the two Boosters I have for after that.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I got the new Schwalbe racing ray / ralph superground in 2.35 combo. Put them on i25 rims at 21/25psi with Tubolight SL inserts. I am not fan. They squirm in corners. Not sure what they "right" PSI will be. I'll probably try 27/22 and call it good until they wear out. I measured their weights at Ray - 746. Ralph - 710g and I did appreciate how they felt going up. But, not really a fan of the squirm.
> 
> 
> I prefer the Barzo / Mezcal TNT combo that I have run in the past. The Schwalbe rubber compound is nice though.


I’ve not used the super ground casings yet but I do find that any tyre with additional puncture protection tends to feel a little loose probably due to some inconsistency in moulding and casing deformation as it absorbs the impacts when compared to a tyre that has a uniformly thick casing like the race or lite versions. Schwalbe tend to have softer rubber too that lends itself to more deformation as you load the tread up. I’ve heard good things about cushcore so will give that a try when my local shop has stock again


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## Crayefish (Apr 4, 2021)

cassieno said:


> I got the new Schwalbe racing ray / ralph superground in 2.35 combo. Put them on i25 rims at 21/25psi with Tubolight SL inserts. I am not fan. They squirm in corners. Not sure what they "right" PSI will be. I'll probably try 27/22 and call it good until they wear out. I measured their weights at Ray - 746. Ralph - 710g and I did appreciate how they felt going up. But, not really a fan of the squirm.


The Ray at the front was squirming too you reckon? I always found squirm unavoidable at those low pressures with 2.25s on IW21s. Maybe similar for your 2.35s on IW25s. Now that I'm IW30s, squirm is a thing of the past down to 18 psi.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The front - I didn't notice as much. I was wondering about that internal width also. I have a set of i28/i30 rims that I could also use. That might be enough. I haven't noticed squirm on Vittoria's tnt casing with i25, but that might just be the extra 40-50gs per tire is enough to keep it from happening.



Brad said:


> I’ve heard good things about cushcore so will give that a try when my local shop has stock again


I wouldn't recommend Cushcore (unless you want to run Cushcore pro). The XC version is still 150gs per wheel and doesn't really seem to do much. The Cushcore Pro is great, but it's around 270g per wheel. 

I have had better luck with Tubolight HD (90g) and Tannus Armor Tubless (150gs). I only have a couple rides on the Tubolight SL's but, initial thoughts are they might not be enough (based on the squirm I was feeling). Which probably isn't a surprise, I weigh 190 pounds and ride a hardtail.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Man some of you guys are running some heavy tires for XC racing...750 grams plus 90g inserts. I hope these are wide open courses where you don't have to spin those big tires up to speed out of slow corners often. I can tell a big difference in a 750 rear tire versus a 650 rear tire as far as getting back up to speed.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My courses usually have descents follow by climbs. Very few slow corners. Inserts are an everyday quality of life improvement (The tubolight SLs are significantly lighter than 90gs - I think they are like 30-50gs) for a hardtail and the larger volumes (2.35+) also are a big improvement. I don't want to change tires "just for race day". So, I am usually running the same training / racing tires. But, I am not racing at the pointy end. I am a sport / low-end-of expert racer. If I get dropped due to a flat, I am never catching back on.


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## mark674 (Jan 8, 2020)

I just swapped out my rear tire from a Maxxis Aspen 2.4 to a Specialized Renegade 2.35 T5 on a 29mm width rim and thought I'd share my first impressions. Without a scientific measurement, the Renegade definitely feels like it rolls faster, and it grips maybe a little better on straight line climbs on loose over hard pack (riding trails in Phoenix and Prescott). The Aspen definitely corners better. Volume wise, the Renegade seem a LOT further off from the Aspen than 0.05". I need to do some more experimenting with pressure on the Renegade to see how it performs at lower psi. My initial take is that I'd rather ride the Aspen if the trail has sketchy corners, but I'd take the Renegade for a XC race if I'm looking for a faster rolling and slightly lighter tire.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

mark674 said:


> I just swapped out my rear tire from a Maxxis Aspen 2.4 to a Specialized Renegade 2.35 T5 on a 29mm width rim and thought I'd share my first impressions. Without a scientific measurement, the Renegade definitely feels like it rolls faster, and it grips maybe a little better on straight line climbs on loose over hard pack (riding trails in Phoenix and Prescott). The Aspen definitely corners better. Volume wise, the Renegade seem a LOT further off from the Aspen than 0.05". I need to do some more experimenting with pressure on the Renegade to see how it performs at lower psi. My initial take is that I'd rather ride the Aspen if the trail has sketchy corners, but I'd take the Renegade for a XC race if I'm looking for a faster rolling and slightly lighter tire.


The 2.35 Renegade definitely spins up faster than the 2.4 Aspen...my experience.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Stonerider said:


> The 2.35 Renegade definitely spins up faster than the 2.4 Aspen...my experience.


Same here, it's noticeable.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My 2.4 Aspen measured 2.55 on an i28 rim. It had a ton of volume. Which seemed a little bigger than I was after for an XC tire.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I too have taken to running inserts in my DC bike.

Tubolights weigh about 72 grams as I recall and I had some on the shelf.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Anyone try the new Thunder Burt 2.35s? Teammate had one on the front, 2.25 TB rear. They've always been narrower than spec but not a bad choice. Think I'll try them when my current race tires wear out. Ironic that Schwalbe now has the heaviest compounds.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just picked up a Rekon Race 2.35 for the front.
Next race is next Thursday...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> One trend that our larger labelled tires have is much bigger knob size. The knob size between a 2.2 Rekon Race and a 2.35 Rekon Race is significant, casing size not so much. I think it is that significant increase in knob size that makes the 2.35 RR a much better tire. This is pattern that I have noticed across a lot of different tires.


Just measured up a Rekon Race 2.2 OEM compared to 2.35 and the knob sizes and spacings are identical dammit.
The bead to bead carcass width is 3mm wider on the 2.35.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Just measured up a Rekon Race 2.2 OEM compared to 2.35 and the knob sizes and spacings are identical dammit.
> The bead to bead carcass width is 3mm wider on the 2.35.


I wonder if the 170tpi ones are different? All my 2.2 Rekon Races are 170tpi.

Or my old eyes are playing tricks on me.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> I wonder if the 170tpi ones are different? All my 2.2 Rekon Races are 170tpi.
> 
> Or my old eyes are playing tricks on me.


The OEM are 60tpi.
The 2.35 is 2.5mm wider after 1 ride across the tread and the carcass than the 2.2.
Tread blocks are identical 
Just as bad braking on the rear as the Mezcal, but more confidence cornering at the front.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> The OEM are 60tpi.
> The 2.35 is 2.5mm wider after 1 ride across the tread and the carcass than the 2.2.
> Tread blocks are identical
> Just as bad braking on the rear as the Mezcal, but more confidence cornering at the front.


They are pretty terrible under braking, not the worst I have ridden. That title goes to the cross mark 2. I blew through more corners in 10 minutes than I do in a year with those things.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> They are pretty terrible under braking, not the worst I have ridden. That title goes to the cross mark 2. I blew through more corners in 10 minutes than I do in a year with those things.


I skidded the back to a stop yesterday after spotting an interesting track going down a fire road and was surprised how long it took to push the bike back up past the skid mark.
But I think most XC biased tyres may have had an issue with that surface.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

cassieno said:


> I got the new Schwalbe racing ray / ralph superground in 2.35 combo. Put them on i25 rims at 21/25psi with Tubolight SL inserts. I am not fan. They squirm in corners. Not sure what they "right" PSI will be. I'll probably try 27/22 and call it good until they wear out. I measured their weights at Ray - 746. Ralph - 710g and I did appreciate how they felt going up. But, not really a fan of the squirm.
> 
> 
> I prefer the Barzo / Mezcal TNT combo that I have run in the past. The Schwalbe rubber compound is nice though.


Short update on my Racing Ralph - it lasted approximately one ride. I tore a knob off the casing (never done that before). Super glued it back on and went on a gravel ride. But, unwilling to keep riding this tire. Back to a good old Mezcal.


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## mrtahiti80 (Nov 6, 2021)

Seems like plenty of people like the mezcal. Gonna go for 2.35 front and rear for my next tires. Thanks guys and gals


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm enjoying it greatly as a rear and it does everything I need a XC/ DC bike to do. Mezcal comes highly recommended.

Still waiting on an update on the Scorpion XC 2.4 as a comparison.


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## mrtahiti80 (Nov 6, 2021)

They're cheapish compared to other tires at $54 too. Nice.What psi are you running? What's your weight? What front tire are you running?


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

So I was visiting Durango, CO this past week and went into Mountain Bike Specialists. I was looking at the Fast Trak and Renegades and asked about weight differences between the Control and S-Works versions. The shop guy said “Let’s weigh them! There’s an old guy in town, goes by the name Ned Overend, who‘s always coming in here wanting to weigh tires and parts, so we’re use to it”. I’m an old guy too, and I have seen the back of his jersey very briefly in races in the 80s, so they read me right and I walked out with an S-Works Fast Trak T5/T7 2.35 (620 grams) and a Control Renegade T5 2.35 (670 grams). The Control Fast Trak 2.35 was 680 grams, but I opted for a more flexible casing of the S-Works on the front. All were pretty close to the advertised “approximate weight”. I’ve liked the old Fast Trak so expect the new one on the front and the Renegade on the back (likely with an insert) will serve me well for the Gunnison Growler and Laramie Range Epic and a few random XC races in the Rocky Mountain region.


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## shagster (Oct 30, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I'm enjoying it greatly as a rear and it does everything I need a XC/ DC bike to do. Mezcal comes highly recommended.
> 
> Still waiting on an update on the Scorpion XC 2.4 as a comparison.


I've been a long time user of Mezcals with the occasional "test" of new tires. I recently began trying out a set of the Scorpion XC H 2.4 and really enjoy them so far. They do not seem to roll as fast as Mezcal on certain terrain but the grip / traction is more reliable and they seem generally more comfortable. I have to run really low pressure in the new scorpions though, something around 18/16 PSI with my weight around 175 lbs.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Am i the only one that i dont like a wider thus heavier tire?! When riding more than a 700gr tire i feel like my 100mm sid sl struggling with flex front and back. I guess this is why they start to use 34/35mm forks. 2.2 or 2.25 at 600ish grams is the sweetspot for my taste! Sticked to rking/rking or cking/rking last years.


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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

mrtahiti80 said:


> Seems like plenty of people like the mezcal. Gonna go for 2.35 front and rear for my next tires. Thanks guys and gals


I'm a huge fan of the Barzo/Mezcal combo in 2.35, christ they roll fast. I did Marji this year with Mezcal 2.6F and 2.35 rear and combo was outstanding for me. 
Had trouble finding a Barzo 2.6 in stock, but I found a good deal on a Maxxis Icon 2.6. The Icon 2.6 with Mezcal 2.6 combo really surprised me on my ss rig, Icon actually seems to corner better for me


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I've been riding my Spur with the Mezcal rear exclusively and hopped back on my SJ Evo with a Martello rear that previously felt pretty fast and it felt like I was pedaling through molasses. Sheesh.


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