# transition Relay light weight Ebike



## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/transition-announces-new-lightweight-emtb-but-youll-have-to-wait-for-it-relay-2023.html



Now this is an ebike I would love to try! Said to be around 40lbs, using the Fazua motor 60nm of torque with a battery system designed to be removable dropping weight to around 35lbs. Rear travel 160 or 170mm, 29” wheels or muller.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

I have a Bafang M800 motor in a road bike that I would like to try in a carbon XC race dual suspension bike. It has a similar torque output, and is very smooth in the on/off transition. The 55nm of torque is certainly no kick in the pants though, nothing like the Shimano E8000 


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

As usual, Transition is always up to something interesting. Here's the new and upcoming Transition Relay. It's supposed to be a mountain bike and ebike mixed. Apparently you can yank the battery and ride it like a regular bike. Reminds me of the Specialized Levo/Kenevo SL to a certain degree. Thoughts?









Transition Bikes


Transition Bikes is a rider owned and operated mountain bike manufacturer from Bellingham Washington



www.transitionbikes.com




!


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Battery said:


> As usual, Transition is always up to something interesting. Here's the new and upcoming Transition Relay. It's supposed to be a mountain bike and ebike mixed. Apparently you can yank the battery and ride it like a regular bike. Reminds me of the Specialized Levo/Kenevo SL to a certain degree. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't "yank the battery" from either of the Specialized SL eMTBs without dropping the motor, which is a significant endeavor nobody wants to do on a regular basis. Also, the motor on those produce only 35Nm. You might be thinking of the Specialized non-SL eMTBs, which have trail-swappable batteries, but are full-fat (i.e. 50-lb class) and produce 90Nm.

This is more like a Orbea Rise (60Nm) except with a trail-swappable/omit-able battery, which is interesting in that the Fazua Ride60 motor in the Relay is 4.3lbs while the detuned Shimano EP8 in the Rise is 5.7lbs. The Ride60 system has a 430Wh battery, while the Rise has a 360Wh battery. So I'm going to guess that with the added hardware for an externally detachable battery, the Relay might be a feather heavier than the Rise w/battery, but 1-1.5lbs lighter without (not that you would ride a Rise without). I'm guessing a sans-battery weight of 36-38lbs.

It sounds like an interesting formula, but it remains to be seen if the Fazua Ride60 is going to be a good-performing, efficient, robust and reliable system.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

I like the concept and the look of the bike a lot. If the motor and system implementation works well on the Relay, I'll likely sell my Turbo Levo and get one.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Definitely interesting but it is annoying that Transition "announces" a bike that will not be available for like 9-10 months.

I was hoping there would be some Fazua Ride-60 bikes coming out since that was announced but I gave up waiting and got an Orbea Rise instead. That is proven with stellar reviews. The Ride-60? That has yet to be seen and I would not want to be a first-get customer.

This mid-power eMTB will be the future. I look forward to a 60NM trail bike, with removable battery for non eMTB days (let's face it - its going to take a long time for all US trails to open up to eMTB if ever) so if you can get a trail bike with battery in the 37lb range and then without battery for say 32lb that actually starts to become practical for single bike ownership that covers eMTB and those days when eMTB is not allowed.

For now I'll have my Rise H15 for eMTB days and my YT Izzo for amish days.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Even though it’s a ways out, this is the type of thing that would get me on a mullet e-bike. Looking forward to seeing first feedback on this, and maybe something in the future for me.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Food for thought:

Battery in the bike for the self-shuttle.

Battery out (and in a stable, close-to-the-body custom pack) for the down.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

I think the idea of removing the battery in order to have a 39 lb bike sounds pretty terrible, but if I were to ever buy an e-bike, it would be one of the lighter weight mid travel ones, for doing self shuttle runs. I think we’re still a ways out from maturity.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DtEW said:


> Food for thought:
> 
> Battery in the bike for the self-shuttle.
> 
> Battery out (and in a stable, close-to-the-body custom pack) for the down.


Like the EVOC battery backpack!


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I think this thing will be super popular. Even if the battery didnt come out I think it would still be popular, as I see the lightweight ebike market (sub class 1 so to speak) growing more in the future. 

I think when solid state batteries come out, this is when we’ll see more lightweight ebikes. Solid state batteries reportedly will have about three times the energy density for the same weight. 

Which means the battery could be three times larger in capacity to todays batteries (and the same weight),or the same capacity (in wh/hrs) and 1/3 the weight. And that to me is when things may start getting more interesting. 

Timing is still unclear. In the auto industry they’re saying somewhere in the 2025-2030 timeframe. But I don’t follow it all that closely. Just know the highlights.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

norcalbike said:


> I think the idea of removing the battery in order to have a 39 lb bike sounds pretty terrible, but if I were to ever buy an e-bike, it would be one of the lighter weight mid travel ones, for doing self shuttle runs. I think we’re still a ways out from maturity.


The drive unit is 4.32 lbs and the battery is 5.07 lbs. If you think of the starting point of an Orbea Rise carbon (lighter battery but heavier drive unit), which can be at 40 lbs or even under with a lighter build, the Relay with battery removed should be pretty respectable.

Personally, this system if proven quiet, reliable with nice power delivery, is ideal for me. Just the right amount of power and battery. I also live where winters get very cold and need to keep my batteries in the house so removable is highly preferred. I believe Fazua has also stated that their systems are designed to be upgradable over time, a massive bonus compared to some others.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

sfr4dr said:


> The drive unit is 4.32 lbs and the battery is 5.07 lbs. If you think of the starting point of an Orbea Rise carbon (lighter battery but heavier drive unit), which can be at 40 lbs or even under with a lighter build, the Relay with battery removed should be pretty respectable.
> 
> Personally, this system if proven quiet, reliable with nice power delivery, is ideal for me. Just the right amount of power and battery. I also live where winters get very cold and need to keep my batteries in the house so removable is highly preferred. I believe Fazua has also stated that their systems are designed to be upgradable over time, a massive bonus compared to some others.


I guess my gripe isn’t with the modular nature of it, just can’t see myself taking the battery out to ride park laps or non-e trails.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

It will be overpriced like the Repeater….. $8,200 for a sram nx build…. Lol


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

MUSTCLIME said:


> It will be overpriced like the Repeater….. $8,200 for a sram nx build…. Lol


Crazy pricing these days for sure. Not sure there’s any way around it besides new analog alloy bikes or deals on used carbon. Does make me curious what this bike in alloy GX or XT will be.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

norcalbike said:


> I guess my gripe isn’t with the modular nature of it, just can’t see myself taking the battery out to ride park laps or non-e trails.


All-in-one products aren't for everyone. There are advantages and disadvantages compared to keeping separate-and-dedicated units.

But if the Relay turns out to be all that, aside from the more-obvious audiences (eg. those who have space constraints eg. city apartment dwellers, those looking to Marie-Kondo-minimize, those who only want to maintain one MTB, etc.), the Relay will also speak to the person ready for a MTB upgrade and is eMTB-curious, but is afraid of making the leap to becoming an "e-biker" and taking on all the baggage that the MTB community-at-large has saddled on the eMTBer (i.e. e-bikers are lazy, fat, cheaters, eMTB-prohibited trail poachers, etc.)... and that he might have also internalized (or even inflicted on others) to some degree. It gives him an "out" so that he doesn't feel like he has to be any of those things, but at the same time he also has the option to eMTB. Humans are truly wonderful rationalizers.

So yeah, it could be a huge hit as long as the core product isn't terrible and terribly-priced. It's a good concept that will speak to more than anybody expects.

There are parallels in the ski world in the form of dual-mode boots (eg. Dalbello Lupo) and bindings (eg. Salomon/Atomic Shift) that have been big hits despite the reality that many people use them primarily in one mode, and occasionally-if-ever uses them in the other mode. Having the option gives them the warm-and-fuzzies at the critical moment: the plopping-down of the credit card.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

I’m in the market for a lightweight E-bike, got excited when I saw this….until I saw the release date. The new Levo SL was supposed to be out already but it got pushed until mid September. Maybe Trek will be able to get the new Fuel EX-E delivered and beat everyone to the punch.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Should this thread be merged with that one?


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## dustyman (Feb 13, 2007)

This looks promising. I’ve been waiting for a light weight ebike from Santa Cruz, but they keep making them heavier with larger batteries. I don’t think most people ride for over 5 hours. New Heckler and Levo at 720 watt hours is huge.


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## underblu (Aug 24, 2021)

I definitely think that light weight MTBs are the way to go. I bought my 21 Heckler MX primarily because it was one of the lightest full power ebikes I could buy at approximately 45 lbs. I subsequently bought an Orbea Rise and I’m completely sold on lightweight bikes. I wouldn’t buy an ebike over 45lbs regardless of battery size and enjoy the nimbleness and tractability of both the Rise and the Heckler

The trend still seems to be longer and slacker with more travel front and back. And while extra battery storage is nice, Until they come out with a modular system I would take a bit less battery for a lighter bike. Especially in the down tube area. I think Orbea hit the sweet spot and the Transition looks promising.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

dustyman said:


> This looks promising. I’ve been waiting for a light weight ebike from Santa Cruz, but they keep making them heavier with larger batteries. I don’t think most people ride for over 5 hours. New Heckler and Levo at 720 watt hours is huge.


Agreed. They should get on it. No rattle trap EP8 either. Toss that thing in the bin. Put a system like the Ride60 in an updated V3 Hightower and it’d be perfect, except the cost.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

dustyman said:


> This looks promising. I’ve been waiting for a light weight ebike from Santa Cruz, but they keep making them heavier with larger batteries. I don’t think most people ride for over 5 hours. New Heckler and Levo at 720 watt hours is huge.



-I have been told there's something in the hopper but don't expect it this year......


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DMFT said:


> -I have been told there's something in the hopper but don't expect it this year......


Now that SC is owned by the Dutch, perhaps they will go with Bosch like their other brands?


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Jack7782 said:


> Now that SC is owned by the Dutch, perhaps they will go with Bosch like their other brands?


-That's a possibility I suppose but Orbea has proven you can use the Shimano unit in a light package.
And as far as I know, the PON Group hasn't been all-about forcing their brands into "1 big box", churning out the same products with different names.
They certainly use their buying capital to mass purchase components etc.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DMFT said:


> -That's a possibility I suppose but Orbea has proven you can use the Shimano unit in a light package.
> And as far as I know, the PON Group hasn't been all-about forcing their brands into "1 big box", churning out the same products with different names.
> They certainly use their buying capital to mass purchase components etc.


As far as I can tell, EP8 RS is simply de-tuned and uses smaller battery packs. Why can’t Bosch or others do the same? Or better yet, why don’t they offer builds with smaller battery packs for us die- hard weight weenies?


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Jack7782 said:


> As far as I can tell, EP8 RS is simply de-tuned and uses smaller battery packs. Why can’t Bosch or others do the same? Or better yet, why don’t they offer builds with smaller battery packs for us die- hard weight weenies?


-I think within a Year or maybe slightly longer, we're going to see next generation Batteries that will crush current offerings across the board in all categories....


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

DMFT said:


> -I think within a Year or maybe slightly longer, we're going to see next generation Batteries that will crush current offerings across the board in all categories....


I thought I read somewhere that Fauza's goal is to have their systems be "upgradable". I'd like to confirm that because if so, I am pretty sure I'd snag this bike over any other, if the weight comes in near 40 lbs. The motor and gearbox is small and if I could pony up for a solid state battery weighing 2/3 less in a few years, I'd be down. Having a brand where upgrades are part of their design philosophy would be much better than a Specialized or whatever that goes obsolete in no time and you're stuck with it.

The only thing I don't like about this setup is I wish the downtube was smaller like the Orbea. More clearance is probably needed to have the removable battery.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

DtEW said:


> Food for thought:
> 
> Battery in the bike for the self-shuttle.
> 
> Battery out (and in a stable, close-to-the-body custom pack) for the down.


This doesn't make sense.
With the battery installed, your bike will be a lot more stable on the down

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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

rod9301 said:


> This doesn't make sense.
> With the battery installed, your bike will be a lot more stable on the down


If one rides like a passenger, sure.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I think these low power eMTB's are for people new to ebikes. It's natural to say, "I don't need that much power to help me when I'm climbing", and you'd be right, because the low gears multiply torque. Where "full power" really shines is on the downhill, when you're in a higher gear (that reduces torque) and there's a small rise in the trail, it helps you maintain your speed.

There is of course the weight argument, but that's really just a matter of adapting your riding style. Ride a 55 pound bike long enough, and you'll forget that it's 55 pounds or requires extra effort.


.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

_CJ said:


> Where "full power" really shines is on the downhill, when you're in a higher gear (that reduces torque) and there's a small rise in the trail, it helps you maintain your speed.


In my extremely limited eBike experience, the "I'm descending in a big gear and I need to put some speed back on" moment was one of the highlights for sure. 

But what I really came here to say is, I'm still waiting for then [email protected] Spur to be easily available. (To be fair, I haven't been aggressive with trying to get a frame since I'm pretty happy with my current bikes but every time I look, they're sold out.) What are the chances anyone will actually be getting the Relay in the "spring of 2023"?


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

_CJ said:


> I think these low power eMTB's are for people new to ebikes. It's natural to say, "I don't need that much power to help me when I'm climbing", and you'd be right, because the low gears multiply torque. Where "full power" really shines is on the downhill, when you're in a higher gear (that reduces torque) and there's a small rise in the trail, it helps you maintain your speed.
> 
> There is of course the weight argument, but that's really just a matter of adapting your riding style. Ride a 55 pound bike long enough, and you'll forget that it's 55 pounds or requires extra effort.
> 
> ...


Depends on how you ride. We have a mix of natural and flow trails where I live. On the flow and jump trails, I enjoy a 32 lb bike to easily whip, manual, front wheel tap, etc. Lots of 2-3+ bike length gapped doubles. Sure this could be done on a 50 lb bike but it’d take more speed and larger jumps because the bike reacts way slower. It’s just not near as agile or fun for that type of riding. I also ride a 220 lb KTM so I know how even heavier machines move as well. 


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

This is exactly the bike I want. I think Fazua 60 is brilliant. I want light weight for handling and ease of transport and lugging up steps to condo. Not sure I’ll wait though. Have an Orbea Rise M Team LTD ordered and currently trying a Trek E Caliber.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> This is exactly the bike I want. I think Fazua 60 is brilliant. I want light weight for handling and ease of transport and lugging up steps to condo. Not sure I’ll wait though. Have an Orbea Rise M Team LTD ordered and currently trying a Trek E Caliber.


Trek should be releasing the new Fuel EX-E anytime now, so says my local Trek dealer. It’s using a motor from TQ though, there isn’t much info on them so who knows how reliable they’ll be.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OU812 said:


> Trek should be releasing the new Fuel EX-E anytime now, so says my local Trek dealer. It’s using a motor from TQ though, there isn’t much info on them so who knows how reliable they’ll be.


Has TQ developed a new lightweight system? The TQ 120 NM system (i.e.Haibike Flyon) looks to be high power, not low weight etc,









Haibike® FLYON ePerformance System | Model overview


Whether in terms of integration, digitalization or performance - Haibike FLYON sets new standards in the high-end sector. Discover the first Haibike-own ePerformance system and our powerful FLYON bikes.




www.haibike.com


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jack7782 said:


> Has TQ developed a new lightweight system? The TQ 120 NM system (i.e.Haibike Flyon) looks to be high power, not low weight etc,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it’s something new, the motor looks tiny in the promo stuff I’ve seen. It doesn’t say anything about torque numbers though, just it has a 360Wh battery and it uses some new designed transmission that’s supposed to be super quiet and compact. Apparently Trek did a bunch of testing in an anechoic chamber and the noise is barely noticeable.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OU812 said:


> I think it’s something new, the motor looks tiny in the promo stuff I’ve seen. It doesn’t say anything about torque numbers though, just it has a 360Wh battery and it uses some new designed transmission that’s supposed to be super quiet and compact. Apparently Trek did a bunch of testing in an anechoic chamber and the noise is barely noticeable.


Oh the old small battery trick -I agree it better be more than that


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

_CJ said:


> I think these low power eMTB's are for people new to ebikes. It's natural to say, "I don't need that much power to help me when I'm climbing", and you'd be right, because the low gears multiply torque. Where "full power" really shines is on the downhill, when you're in a higher gear (that reduces torque) and there's a small rise in the trail, it helps you maintain your speed.
> 
> There is of course the weight argument, but that's really just a matter of adapting your riding style. Ride a 55 pound bike long enough, and you'll forget that it's 55 pounds or requires extra effort.
> 
> ...


My bad shoulders won’t forget and my back sure the heck won’t when lifting on/off my rack. I‘ve now been on my Rise for a year and I have zero interest in a 50+ pound bike, but that’s me. I’ve never wanted or needed more power on the steepest of climbs.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Ripbird said:


> My bad shoulders won’t forget and my back sure the heck won’t when lifting on/off my rack. I‘ve now been on my Rise for a year and I have zero interest in a 50+ pound bike, but that’s me. I’ve never wanted or needed more power on the steepest of climbs.


Yep! Last weekend I rode for half a day with two buddies. One Levo SL, one regular Levo and one Rise. The regular Levo was the least favorite in the group, weight being the main reason. That and we never felt short on power on any of the bikes nor did we even come close to using up the battery on any bike.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Ripbird said:


> My bad shoulders won’t forget and my back sure the heck won’t when lifting on/off my rack. I‘ve now been on my Rise for a year and I have zero interest in a 50+ pound bike, but that’s me. I’ve never wanted or needed more power on the steepest of climbs.


Not needing "full power" on climbs is exactly what I said. It's on the downhill that it really shines. 20 pounds too heavy? To each his own I guess. I'll take the trade.


.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

_CJ said:


> Not needing "full power" on climbs is exactly what I said. It's on the downhill that it really shines. 20 pounds too heavy? To each his own I guess. I'll take the trade.
> 
> 
> .


Fore sure. I'm not sure what 20 pounds too heavy means, but the Rise suits my needs perfect. If someone gave me 15k to buy any Ebike today, it would be another Rise as no other Ebike interests me.


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

OU812 said:


> Trek should be releasing the new Fuel EX-E anytime now, so says my local Trek dealer. It’s using a motor from TQ though, there isn’t much info on them so who knows how reliable they’ll be.


Maybe that is what will be announced July 12 Trek Bikes - The world's best bikes and cycling gear | Trek Bikes


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> Maybe that is what will be announced July 12 Trek Bikes - The world's best bikes and cycling gear | Trek Bikes


Yeah, I was able to get my hands on some press material. It’s a 50nm TQ motor with a 360wh battery. Supposed to be dead silent too. The Trek pages accidentally went live here in the UK and someone grabbed some screen shots with pricing, the 9.9 AXS bike is £13,200 here!


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

OU812 said:


> Yeah, I was able to get my hands on some press material. It’s a TQ motor with a 360wh battery. Supposed to be dead silent too. The Trek pages accidentally went live here in the UK and someone grabbed some screen shots with pricing, the 9.9 AXS bike is £13,200 here!


That is a hefty price point. Any info on bike weight. Battery removable?


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> That is a hefty price point. Any info on bike weight. Battery removable?


No idea on weights, the info I have doesn’t show any weights. The battery is removable though. Should be at dealers sometime in October, I just looked again and the cheapest one over here starts at £7100 and that’s with SLX/XT stuff.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OU812 said:


> No idea on weights, the info I have doesn’t show any weights. The battery is removable though. Should be at dealers sometime in October, I just looked again and the cheapest one over here starts at £7100 and that’s with SLX/XT stuff.


I hope it loses the key


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jack7782 said:


> I hope it loses the key


No key, the battery slides out the bottom of the downtube.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Regular Fuel is 130/140 travel right? Not the same category as the Relay. I’ll be in the market for 150-160 rear with 160-170 front. 40 lb target weight.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> That is a hefty price point. Any info on bike weight. Battery removable?


Just looked back through the info and found the weight 18.4kg without the extender. The extender is only 160wh so I don’t see it weighing too much.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

sfr4dr said:


> Regular Fuel is 130/140 travel right? Not the same category as the Relay. I’ll be in the market for 150-160 rear with 160-170 front. 40 lb target weight.


The fuel EXe will be 150 front 140 rear, perfect trail bike. I’m leaning more towards the Pivot Shuttle SL now though, depends on what comes available first. The new Levo SL is coming in September so I’ll give that a look too. I’ve heard rumors of other brands dropping light E-bikes next year so it’s going to be interesting for sure.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

OU812 said:


> I think it’s something new, the motor looks tiny in the promo stuff I’ve seen. It doesn’t say anything about torque numbers though, just it has a 360Wh battery and it uses *some new designed transmission* that’s supposed to be super quiet and compact. Apparently Trek did a bunch of testing in an anechoic chamber and the noise is barely noticeable.


Are you saying this new motor includes the bike's transmission, as in to replace the cassette/ derailleur?

Anyways, I've remained pretty anti-ebike because our trails are poor fits for them with poor line of sight and multidirectional usage, even though I'm an unimpressive climber.

Must admit that these new lightweight e-bikes, for the big days on the really rough trails where there is never other people and riding backwards is all but impossible, is really appealing.

I'd of course keep a 130 pedal bike for most riding.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

OU812 said:


> The fuel EXe will be 150 front 140 rear, perfect trail bike. I’m leaning more towards the Pivot Shuttle SL now though, depends on what comes available first. The new Levo SL is coming in September so I’ll give that a look too. I’ve heard rumors of other brands dropping light E-bikes next year so it’s going to be interesting for sure.


Good trail bike but I need more for where I live. I hadn’t seen the new Shuttle. I like it. I’m leaning towards a Horst link bike but would consider another DW Link if I can put a coil shock on it. The updated Levo SL will probably be great as well. Lots of good choices coming up. Just need to have the money ready to go!


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

OU812 said:


> Just looked back through the info and found the weight 18.4kg without the extender. The extender is only 160wh so I don’t see it weighing too much.


Thanks very much. If the battery is removable, I would be very interested in this bike at that weight. The travel is enough for my riding and I'm going to go try out Trek fuel and/or fuel ex to see if I like the handling. Probably cancel the Rise I have ordered and definitely returning the E Caliber I've been riding. Starting to look like there will be options in the Super Light category. Yeah! Hopefully won't take too long to get one this year. I prefer to buy Trek with their 30 day return option after you actually get to use the bike for a while.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> Thanks very much. If the battery is removable, I would be very interested in this bike at that weight. The travel is enough for my riding and I'm going to go try out Trek fuel and/or fuel ex to see if I like the handling. Probably cancel the Rise I have ordered and definitely returning the E Caliber I've been riding. Starting to look like there will be options in the Super Light category. Yeah! Hopefully won't take too long to get one this year. I prefer to buy Trek with their 30 day return option after you actually get to use the bike for a while.


Battery is definitely removable, comes out at the bottom down near the motor. I’m guessing something like the Levo, pop off the skid plate and undo the bolt and it slides out. I rode the Rise, liked everything about it but it felt dated to me. It did make me change my mind about buying Keneno SL though, 60nm is perfect for me. The Fuel is 50nm so it should be just as good too.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Are you saying this new motor includes the bike's transmission, as in to replace the cassette/ derailleur?
> 
> Anyways, I've remained pretty anti-ebike because our trails are poor fits for them with poor line of sight and multidirectional usage, even though I'm an unimpressive climber.
> 
> ...


It still has a cassette/derailleur, TQ developed a super compact drive system that they call a transmission.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OU812 said:


> It still has a cassette/derailleur, TQ developed a super compact drive system that they call a transmission.


Does it share ‘technology’ of Flyon in any way or is it completely new system? You seem to have the inside scoop


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The folks thinking a removable battery is somehow beneficial clearly have not used an ebike for trail riding or simply don’t need an ebike.

Unless you’re doing pure DH, ie the motor acts as your shuttle, an ebike for trail riding is meant to be ridden with the battery in place.

Folks looking for a shuttle bike should get a higher powered unit, an SL ebike is not enough boost for laps.

The biggest bummer about riding an ebike is the weight on the downhill, even an extra five pounds is a ton.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> The folks thinking a removable battery is somehow beneficial clearly have not used an ebike for trail riding or simply don’t need an ebike.
> 
> Unless you’re doing pure DH, ie the motor acts as your shuttle, an ebike for trail riding is meant to be ridden with the battery in place.
> 
> ...



Ben, you're usually pretty sane but I don't get this:

_"..on the downhill, even an extra five pounds is a ton."_
completely contradicts
_"Folks looking for a shuttle bike should get a higher powered unit, an SL ebike is not enough boost for laps"_

Can you explain this logic a little better for us slow people?


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jack7782 said:


> Does it share ‘technology’ of Flyon in any way or is it completely new system? You seem to have the inside scoop


The Flyon is the only other bike using TQ stuff so I would think they’re probably pretty similar.


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

My interest in a removable battery is strictly for easy transport-lifting up stairs and onto roof rack. I need a bike 37 lbs without battery and preferably much less.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Personally I'd like a removable battery because my garage can sit at 45 degrees F in winter. I'm guessing that's not good for battery storage. Also saying a Levo SL isn't good for laps really doesn't factor in people's fitness level. I ride an analog bike 3 days a week in Tahoe/Truckee with all rides starting at 6,000'. When I last demo'd a Levo SL, I felt like the bike basically rode itself uphill. I could do laps on that thing for 4-6 hours and barely feel worked. Sure it wouldn't be link a full fat but I have zero interest in anything that heavy.

Anyways, really getting interested in the Ride 60 system. Watched some more videos on it last night, including a factory tour. I'm very curious to see what other "light enduro or long legged trail" bikes come out with this. One thing I was wondering, how will these things get repair if needed with the company being in Germany? I wonder if they have US based service centers. Also curious if they will follow an "upgradable" design philosophy. It'd be awesome to be able to swap out motors and batteries down the road if they come up with any really big improvements using the same mounting points.


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

sfr4dr said:


> Personally I'd like a removable battery because my garage can sit at 45 degrees F in winter. I'm guessing that's not good for battery storage. Also saying a Levo SL isn't good for laps really doesn't factor in people's fitness level. I ride an analog bike 3 days a week in Tahoe/Truckee with all rides starting at 6,000'. When I last demo'd a Levo SL, I felt like the bike basically rode itself uphill. I could do laps on that thing for 4-6 hours and barely feel worked. Sure it wouldn't be link a full fat but I have zero interest in anything that heavy.
> 
> Anyways, really getting interested in the Ride 60 system. Watched some more videos on it last night, including a factory tour. I'm very curious to see what other "light enduro or long legged trail" bikes come out with this. One thing I was wondering, how will these things get repair if needed with the company being in Germany? I wonder if they have US based service centers. Also curious if they will follow an "upgradable" design philosophy. It'd be awesome to be able to swap out motors and batteries down the road if they come up with any really big improvements using the same mounting points.


Also like Fazua for their modular concepts. fairly quiet. But curious why Trek is not using for Fuel EX since a number of their e bikes already use Fazua. Battery tech will continue to improve greatly given the impetus from autos. I’m not one to keep buying whole new bikes but love upgrade component path.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

-I think another part of the beauty of an easily removable battery is in places that use USFS land, Commercial Shuttle Co's have been told no ebikes. Remove the battery, voila! Pedal-bike!!
At least this is/has been the case in Southern-Oregon per a friend who owned a Shuttle Company....


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

edj said:


> Thanks very much. If the battery is removable, I would be very interested in this bike at that weight. The travel is enough for my riding and I'm going to go try out Trek fuel and/or fuel ex to see if I like the handling. Probably cancel the Rise I have ordered and definitely returning the E Caliber I've been riding. Starting to look like there will be options in the Super Light category. Yeah! Hopefully won't take too long to get one this year. I prefer to buy Trek with their 30 day return option after you actually get to use the bike for a while.


Here you go, he’s been riding it for about a month now.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

OU812 said:


> Here you go, he’s been riding it for about a month now.


What a beauty. The battery removal, display, etc. Very slick. Nicer than the current Rise or Levo SL. It'll be up to the Relay, Shuttle SL or next Levo SL to match this level of refinement. Hate to say it but this makes the Relay look a bit clunky.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

sfr4dr said:


> What a beauty. The battery removal, display, etc. Very slick. Nicer than the current Rise or Levo SL. It'll be up to the Relay, Shuttle SL or next Levo SL to match this level of refinement. Hate to say it but this makes the Relay look a bit clunky.


Specialized currently has the best display/integration out there, it would be hard to beat their system.


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

The Trek looks very promising. More advanced Tech than the Rise with removable battery a big plus. I will probably order the 9.8 XT Version. Weighs abt 40 lbs and battery abt 4 lbs so with the battery out (for transport or acoustic) 36 lbs. I will probably substitute slightly smaller/lighter tires. Otherwise stock looks more than sufficient for my riding. Price is $9200 vs comparable Rise M Team LTD at $11,500. Happy to save over 2 grand and Trek dealer is 10 mins away vs. Orbea over an hour.
Local Trek dealer said bikes will be available November or possibly earlier.
I'd love to see a comparison test video of these two bikes.
Trek website. Fuel EXe | Trek Bikes


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

edj said:


> The Trek looks very promising. More advanced Tech than the Rise with removable battery a big plus. I will probably order the 9.8 XT Version. Weighs abt 40 lbs and battery abt 4 lbs so with the battery out (for transport or acoustic) 36 lbs. I will probably substitute slightly smaller/lighter tires. Otherwise stock looks more than sufficient for my riding. Price is $9200 vs comparable Rise M Team LTD at $11,500. Happy to save over 2 grand and Trek dealer is 10 mins away vs. Orbea over an hour.
> Local Trek dealer said bikes will be available November or possibly earlier.
> I'd love to see a comparison test video of these two bikes.
> Trek website. Fuel EXe | Trek Bikes


I think pricing between the two bikes you have listed is actually closer based on the actual components spec. The M-Team is now 10,500, but doesn’t come with Carbon wheels. It also comes with XTR 9120 brakes and a Fox 36 G2 fork. All XTR drivetrain which obviously brings up the cost difference, but sheds weight.

Where as the $9200 Trek has a Lyrik Select+ which is a lower end fork compared to a Fox 36 Grip 2. Edit; looks like the XT price with the spec listed is 8,700 and 9,200 with some upgrades, but not sure what they are. Notice the yellow model is 500 more that the other 2 colors, but the spec doesn’t change from what I can see.

I think the Trek is better compared to the Rise M10 at 9,100. The M10 has a better fork, same XT brakes, but has a SLX cassette and chain. Same XT shifter/ derailleur. M10 and M-Team both come with the same alloy Raceface wheels. Now you will probably get better warranty/ customer service from Trek.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Ripbird said:


> I think the Trek is better compared to the Rise M10 at 9,100. The M10 has a better fork, same XT brakes, but has a SLX cassette and chain. Same XT shifter/ derailleur. M10 and M-Team both come with the same alloy Raceface wheels. Now you will probably get better warranty/ customer service from Trek.


There are Trek dealers almost everywhere so that kind of goes without saying. I like the Trek geo better except for the HA but I'm a minority in that department since I think sub-65 is too slack for a trail bike.

I thought I read is was 64.5 HA. Getting old I guess.


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## edj (Mar 31, 2010)

Ripbird said:


> I think pricing between the two bikes you have listed is actually closer based on the actual components spec. The M-Team is now 10,500, but doesn’t come with Carbon wheels. It also comes with XTR 9120 brakes and a Fox 36 G2 fork. All XTR drivetrain which obviously brings up the cost difference, but sheds weight.
> 
> Where as the $9200 Trek has a Lyrik Select+ which is a lower end fork compared to a Fox 36 Grip 2. Edit; looks like the XT price with the spec listed is 8,700 and 9,200 with some upgrades, but not sure what they are. Notice the yellow model is 500 more that the other 2 colors, but the spec doesn’t change from what I can see.
> 
> I think the Trek is better compared to the Rise M10 at 9,100. The M10 has a better fork, same XT brakes, but has a SLX cassette and chain. Same XT shifter/ derailleur. M10 and M-Team both come with the same alloy Raceface wheels. Now you will probably get better warranty/ customer service from Trek.


Hi. I compared to Rise MTeam LTD as that’s the only Rise I’m considering and actually ordered. Bike weight is critical for me and the LTD is only Rise I can easily lift onto my roof rack and haul up stairs to my condo Although TREK EX E 9.8 is 40 lbs vs 36-7 for Rise the battery is easily removed for transport bringing weight to 36 lbs.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

My local Trek dealer has 2 large 9.9s built on the showroom floor, they have a small 9.8 and a medium 9.9XTR waiting to be built. I asked about ordering a yellow medium 9.9 AXS bike and he said August if I ordered today. I really want to see what the Pivot Shuttle SL is going to do before I make up my mind. The Relay isn’t even in the picture for me since I can’t buy until spring 2023


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Scott2MTB said:


> There are Trek dealers almost everywhere so that kind of goes without saying. I like the Trek geo better except for the HA but I'm a minority in that department since I think sub-65 is too slack for a trail bike.
> 
> I thought I read is was 64.5 HA. Getting old I guess.


We both read 64.7 in multiple reviews, so you are still seeing okay. Now Trek shows 65/65.5 on their site, but as expected on day 1 not all info is 100% accurate.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

The Fuel, Relay and future Levo SL won’t rattle like the EP8-RS though.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

sfr4dr said:


> The Fuel, Relay and future Levo SL won’t rattle like the EP8-RS though.


Shimano may 'rattle' - but you will be getting freeshift and autoshift sometime soon


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

sfr4dr said:


> The Fuel, Relay and future Levo SL won’t rattle like the EP8-RS though.


Do you own one (Rise)or have you ridden one?


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

Ripbird said:


> Do you own one (Rise)or have you ridden one?


I have ridden several. Two of my friends have them. They're great bikes for many and I know the rattle is not harmful or abnormal for their design but I'm OCD about rattles. I've demo'd a Levo SL and their motors "whine" but that noise doesn't bug me. Seemed more like a hum. The Levo SL has zero rattles. Noisy and/or heavy motors all seem like teething problems to me, with ebikes still somewhat in their infancy. There's plenty of motors that are quiet, even in SL bikes like the TQ in the new Fuel Ex-e. I believe the new Ride 60 Fazua is also fairly quiet and no rattles. In a few years, my guess is it'll be a rattle-free and 'mostly quiet' motor world. Brands just need to catch up.


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## OU812 (Sep 19, 2011)

sfr4dr said:


> I have ridden several. Two of my friends have them. They're great bikes for many and I know the rattle is not harmful or abnormal for their design but I'm OCD about rattles. I've demo'd a Levo SL and their motors "whine" but that noise doesn't bug me. Seemed more like a hum. The Levo SL has zero rattles. Noisy and/or heavy motors all seem like teething problems to me, with ebikes still somewhat in their infancy. There's plenty of motors that are quiet, even in SL bikes like the TQ in the new Fuel Ex-e. I believe the new Ride 60 Fazua is also fairly quiet and no rattles. In a few years, my guess is it'll be a rattle-free and 'mostly quiet' motor world. Brands just need to catch up.


That’s the shimano rattle, 8 of my riding buddies have various models of bikes all with the EP8 motor. All but 1 of them have that rattle, it’s pretty common. There’s even a few well known YouTubers riding shimano ebikes and you can hear the rattle in some of their videos.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

Jack7782 said:


> Shimano may 'rattle' - but you will be getting freeshift and autoshift sometime soon


This feature will not be backwards compatible.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

REZEN said:


> This feature will not be backwards compatible.


Seems like it would just be a programming thing. EP8 and E8000 are already DI2 compatible, all it would need is a signal to say shift, that comes from some algorithms using wheel speed, cadence, crank torque, maybe something else, and all those are already being measured. I guess we’ll see, but I do like the idea, especially if they make it tailorable to rider preference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

^Shimano already stated these features will not come to the EP8/EP8000

My guess is the motor does not have the connections to the motor, IE NOT forward thinking. Maybe they did, but are not going to pay their programmers to spend more time on a product they consider finished.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

REZEN said:


> ^Shimano already stated these features will not come to the EP8/EP8000
> 
> My guess is the motor does not have the connections to the motor, IE NOT forward thinking. Maybe they did, but are not going to pay their programmers to spend more time on a product they consider finished.


There are smart guys out there, if Shimano doesn’t do it, someone else will. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RxBike (Jun 30, 2018)

Anybody heard additional information on the Relay? What price point do you think we are looking at? Similar to the repeater? As with other manufacturers, transition prices continue to go up and up....


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Why would someone want xtr on an e bike?

It will not last long as all and it's really expensive to replace

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

rod9301 said:


> Why would someone want xtr on an e bike?
> 
> It will not last long as all and it's really expensive to replace
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


Possibly I'd regret this decision, too soon to know, but one of the reasons I want a low power e-bike is that I want to continue to use my lightweight high quality parts. I currently experience very little driveline wear even though I destroy tires at an alarming rate. Maybe it's the wax lubricants?

I'll almost certainly run a SRAM 11 speed on my own lightweight e-bike.

Once you add the big motor/ battery, well a lot of other parts start gaining weight as well to deal with those extra forces.

It's my goal to get very close to 40#s ready to ride in a big travel mid-power e-bike.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

RxBike said:


> Anybody heard additional information on the Relay? What price point do you think we are looking at? Similar to the repeater? As with other manufacturers, transition prices continue to go up and up....
> 
> View attachment 2001934
> 
> View attachment 2001935


What's funny is that you can watch lightweight e-bike reviews from over seas and watch the Relay cruising along in several videos. They are certainly out there.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

Battery said:


> As usual, Transition is always up to something interesting. Here's the new and upcoming Transition Relay. It's supposed to be a mountain bike and ebike mixed. Apparently you can yank the battery and ride it like a regular bike. Reminds me of the Specialized Levo/Kenevo SL to a certain degree. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you have exactly this in Lapierre eZesty for a year or 2 (just less travel) - you can remove battery and motor and your bike is about 16kg then


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

This is just a photo of my TV I took today while watching a GEMBN youtube video, it's in the opening credits.

The thing is, I have seen the Relay in several of their videos now, at least one about 2 months old.

So the Relay clearly exist for outlets to test.

Anyways, the Relay is likely to be my next bike, but I've officially hit my price limits on bikes so money is going to matter for really the first time for me. I'd pay up to about $6.8K for a frame only, maybe a bit more for a sh*tty complete with throw away parts. CF frame only being considered.

Anyways, Spire Geo, Fazua 60 motor, full coverage frame protection... this is most likely the bike for me. This or the updated Spesh Levo SL.


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