# I was wrong about who's riding e-bikes...the speed freaks are now. By the ton.



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

2-3 years ago there was quite a debate about who is going to purchase an e-bike, what kind of rider they are...and most importantly how fast they will be tempted to go. The main concern was that people would ride them too fast, more accidents would happen between riders, other trail users would complain, and on and on. I was trying to reassure the worry warts out there that this hasn't really happened yet at least on a large scale, and for now it still has not. But the really good riders, as in the experts, the bros that like to downhill at 20+ mph, are now buying them more and more, and the sales are going exponential in the last several months. These are top of the line real trail/enduro bikes with electric power. That means they can shred basically anything, uphill or down. And those bikes are selling like crazy. I don't know what the tipping point was, why it's growing so fast now among the already fit riders. I guess it's just because the expensive e-bikes are so good they can't resist.

It used to be that whoever I followed, their bike was their bike and I didn't have to check if it was an e-powered 'activity' or a real ride. Now I have to check. Because they finish the ride, post it, and get 1/2 dozen KOM's and top 10s, and of course I want to see what happened, if they just finished a round of anabolic steroids or something. Nope, they bought a new e-bike. The posts were legit, they are recording it as an activity and not a mountain bike ride. So it's in a separate category. But just the fact that an otherwise healthy, fit rider, who 100% chooses an e-bike out of speed and performance and not because they have any health or fitness issues, is...well it's interesting. The ones that are still riding normal bikes and have no interest in e-power are lamenting that the 'crew' one by one is converting over. They sound defeatist, like oh well, nothing they can do about it. There are still mixed group rides between the two kinds of bikes, but now there are more and more exclusive group e-bike rides because the other guys can't keep up if the loop is over 15-20 miles long. So it's finally happening, for better or worse. Or really it's just happening and take it at face value; I don't see/hear/read about any huge difference trail impact-wise or more head-on crashes or anything. It's fairly benign on a practical trail impact level...for now. We'll see. 

I'm pro e-bike but I'm pretty neutral or ambivalent about it being used to shred singletrack. And those guys are shredding for sure, and having a blast. One guy that exclusively went over several years ago made a really funny reply when the lamenter said "Man the whole crew is going over to them." The reply was "The first hit is free." As in a drug analogy, once you try it you are hooked. And that's exactly why I'm going out of my way to not buy a really nice one for singletrack until I really need to. Because I'm sure it is addictive. That amount of performance I bet makes them feel on top of the world. They are talented, fit riders to begin with so it puts them in a world-class pro category immediately for performance.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

You're not wrong. Some of us still ride mountain bikes too...


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

richj8990 said:


> The reply was "The first hit is free."


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

The growth of e bike sales will become a problem for other trail users. Think of people walking on trails with their kids, or older trail users who can't get out of the way quickly. The solution is for trail managers to classify E bikes as motor bikes, because they are bikes with motors. There are many more miles of motorized trails and dirt roads in the wilderness than non motorized. E bikes should not be allowed on trails that are for non motorized use.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Ebikes are for real and they are here to stay. As an avid lifetime cyclist, it baffles me that someone would hate on another way to have fun on two wheels…
(Que the crybabies here)


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Smiles for miles said:


> The growth of e bike sales will become a problem for other trail users. Think of people walking on trails with their kids, or older trail users who can't get out of the way quickly. The solution is for trail managers to classify E bikes as motor bikes, because they are bikes with motors. There are many more miles of motorized trails and dirt roads in the wilderness than non motorized. E bikes should not be allowed on trails that are for non motorized use.


lm guessing youll see whats happening here, Trails will be seperated for Hikers and Bikes.
Its the only safe way.


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## Steel-Onions (Sep 3, 2021)

The near future of battery tech is interesting, faster charging, lighter, longer lasting, less enviromental impact, if ebikes start to use this tech i may be tempted one day >> Future batteries, coming soon: Charge in seconds, last months and power over the air


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> It used to be that whoever I followed, their bike was their bike and I didn't have to check if it was an e-powered 'activity' or a real ride. Now I have to check. Because they finish the ride, post it, and get 1/2 dozen KOM's and top 10s, and of course I want to see what happened, if they just finished a round of anabolic steroids or something.



Just enjoy your time out riding with your friends. Don't get so caught up in what other people are riding.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

To each their own. They aren't for me - yet - but that's just because my body isn't broken down to the point that I need one to continue to cycle - yet. Until then I'm not the target customer. I love going fast just like everyone else, but the biggest draw of any type of cycling for me is to get out and get away. As a human I'm aware of my charge level and can pack fuel. Remembering to keep a bike charged, or range anxiety on longer rides, is not on my to-do list. If anything I like the lighter/lesser-assisted bikes coming out now. I am also not above admitting that when Potbelly Pete with the meat sweats comes swerving past me on a trail after stopping at McDonald's for a Big Mac on the way there, I get irritated, but that's my own problem.

As mentioned the bigger issue becomes trail access. A e-bike is in fact a motorized vehicle I do think they need to be treated as such.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

richj8990 said:


> *That means they can shred basically anything, uphill or down*.


Nobody is "shredding" the climbs on a class 1 emtb....

Are they going faster than a normal bike uphill? Yes, they are, but I'd argue the average speeds that emtbs climb at doesn't come close to the category of "shredding". 

Maybe if you live in Florida and consider a 4% grade steep, then yes, maybe they'll "shred" that.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

20mph on downhills? That's nuts!!!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Wow, this news is so exciting that I'm gonna take a nap. 💤


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> It used to be that whoever I followed, their bike was their bike and I didn't have to check if it was an e-powered 'activity' or a real ride. Now I have to check.


No.
No you don't.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> No.
> No you don't.


My concern for e-bikes is that if I buy one, I may get lazy and underperform on my fitness. I rode a Specialized Turbo and it was the most fun I ever had on two wheels. But if I head out on one of my bikes, I know that at the end of the day my (was 283 when I started) 180 pound body was the sole reason I climbed 2,000 feet, traveled 30 miles with no help.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Ducman said:


> Just enjoy your time out riding with your friends. Don't get so caught up in what other people are riding.


All my friends shifted over to ebikes. The normal crew whittled down from 20+ to >3.
Good to be back riding with the guys, all on ebikes.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> My concern for e-bikes is that if I buy one, I may get lazy and underperform on my fitness. I rode a Specialized Turbo and it was the most fun I ever had on two wheels. But if I head out on one of my bikes, I know that at the end of the day my (was 283 when I started) 180 pound body was the sole reason I climbed 2,000 feet, traveled 30 miles with no help.


I know, when you get tempted and select turbo or boost - others are doing proper intervals and basically suffering. I say hold out as long as you can, because once you cross over to the dark side, you will never turn back.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> My concern for e-bikes is that if I buy one, I may get lazy and underperform on my fitness. I rode a Specialized Turbo and it was the most fun I ever had on two wheels. But if I head out on one of my bikes, I know that at the end of the day my (was 283 when I started) 180 pound body was the sole reason I climbed 2,000 feet, traveled 30 miles with no help.


Ebikes won't do anything to your fitness and will build more core/upper body strength.
I ride just as hard and just as long, I just go further and hit more DH trails.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Jack7782 said:


> I know, when you get tempted and select turbo or boost - others are doing proper intervals and basically suffering. I say hold as long as you can, because once you cross over to the dark side, you will never turn back.


There is zero reason you can't do intervals on turbo. Pick a normal 6 minute climb and smash it out in 2. Rail the decent and do it again.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> Ebikes won't do anything to your fitness and will build more core/upper body strength.
> I ride just as hard and just as long, I just go further and hit more DH trails.


I get that but …that is you. I am pretty sure when I am hot and tired still ten miles from the truck, I would use max boost to get home and if I ever had a throttle on a bike, I 
Know I would get fat.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Pedalon2018 said:


> I get that but …that is you. I am pretty sure when I am hot and tired still ten miles from the truck, I would use max boost to get home and if I ever had a throttle on a bike, I
> Know I would get fat.


'When you look at the dark side, careful you must be. For the dark side looks back'
- Yoda


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

unsurprising, the arms race begins


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Personally, I think ebikes are a great addition to the cycling realm. Just look at Europe. 

My one problem with them is they are so damn heavy I can barely lift it off the ground to rack it.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I just bought a new RZR side x side. I’ve been driving it on the mtb trails. I know you’re not supposed to but it seems fine to me and I think people are being ridiculous by saying side x sides shouldn’t be allowed on the trails. Personally I think that people are just jealous that I’m having more fun than them. So what if my side x side does more damage to the trails than ebikes? Trails are public and I should be allowed to enjoy them too. 

I’m just going to keep driving my side x side on the trails until it becomes normalized and people stop complaining about it.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I’m just going to keep driving my side x side on the trails until it becomes normalized and people stop complaining about it.


I was basically told I was just a whiner for making a post about a dirt bike riding UP an MTB jump line in a location where dirt bikes are illegal.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sidewalk said:


> I was basically told I was just a whiner for making a post about a dirt bike riding UP an MTB jump line in a location where dirt bikes are illegal.


Whiner.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I just bought a new RZR side x side. I’ve been driving it on the mtb trails. I know you’re not supposed to but it seems fine to me and I think people are being ridiculous by saying side x sides shouldn’t be allowed on the trails. Personally I think that people are just jealous that I’m having more fun than them. So what if my side x side does more damage to the trails than ebikes? Trails are public and I should be allowed to enjoy them too.
> 
> I’m just going to keep driving my side x side on the trails until it becomes normalized and people stop complaining about it.


Me for the last 20 years "I’m just going to keep riding my MTB on the trails until it becomes normalized and people stop complaining about it." It never worked.

Me now "I’m just going to keep riding my eMTB on the trails until it becomes normalized and people stop complaining about it."

Still going to follow the same mantra of don't be a dick while doing it.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

mudflap said:


> Personally, I think ebikes are a great addition to the cycling realm. Just look at Europe.
> 
> My one problem with them is they are so damn heavy I can barely lift it off the ground to rack it.


Do some strength training. I promise you in what seems like no time you'll get strong enough to lift 55 pounds a couple feet off the ground to get it on a rack.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

MX9799 said:


> Do some strength training. I promise you in what seems like no time you'll get strong enough to lift 55 pounds a couple feet off the ground to get it on a rack.


Said the guy who needs a motor to get up the hill.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Pedalon2018 said:


> I may get lazy and underperform on my fitness.
> 
> I rode a Specialized Turbo and it was the most fun I ever had on two wheels.


My thoughts on performance v. fun

1. It's okay to not perform if you're not getting paid to do so. Doing a hobby just for fun is 100% okay.
2. "Most fun you've ever had" is a strong argument for doing something.
3. If you continue having the most fun you've ever had then you're likely to keep doing it a lot, which would in turn lead to fitness.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MX9799 said:


> Do some strength training. I promise you in what seems like no time you'll get strong enough to lift 55 pounds a couple feet off the ground to get it on a rack.


Or you could find a 4th grader and ask them to do it for you.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Pedalon2018 said:


> My concern for e-bikes is that if I buy one, I may get lazy and underperform on my fitness. I rode a Specialized Turbo and it was the most fun I ever had on two wheels. But if I head out on one of my bikes, I know that at the end of the day my (was 283 when I started) 180 pound body was the sole reason I climbed 2,000 feet, traveled 30 miles with no help.


Which has exactly what to do with worrying about what someone else is doing?


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## mixmastamikal (Jun 14, 2010)

I have both and tend to ride my standard MTB more but as for the fitness part I would have to say the E-bike lets me sneak in a ride when I otherwise would not have had the time. I know on limited time I will still be able to cover a decent amount of ground and get some good downhill so it pushes me to get out a little more.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

mudflap said:


> Personally, I think ebikes are a great addition to the cycling realm. Just look at Europe.
> 
> My one problem with them is they are so damn heavy I can barely lift it off the ground to rack it.


Exactly. It become a self fulfilling deal in that if you get an electric, you now need the motor to up grade due to the ridiculous weight.


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

I use to race XC back in the late 80's to early 90's....then I got into RC Airplanes for 20 years....now I just got my first new bike in 25 years and it has batteries. At 70 years old, I don't need to apologize to anyone....It's great to be riding again even if I have some pedal assist....I slow down for Hikers when on fire roads and chat them up to be pleasant as I pass by....but after seeing how many Mt Bikers want access to single track, that will have to develop as One-way trails for safety, I see eBikes as well as "Analog" bikes growing even more with more trail access!


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## TRP (Mar 21, 2021)

Well this is shocking. The people who got into mountain biking because it's fun are ditching them for ebikes because they are more fun, in their opinion of course. The purist douche bags are mad because other people are having fun in a different way but use some bogus argument about trail damage and too many new people on trails.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Or you could find a 4th grader and ask them to do it for you.


Good idea. I'll look for you next time I'm loading up.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Said the guy who needs a motor to get up the hill.


When did I ever say I "needed" the motor to get up the hill?


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

MX9799 said:


> Do some strength training. I promise you in what seems like no time you'll get strong enough to lift 55 pounds a couple feet off the ground to get it on a rack.


This may or not work for ALL humans in their 60s-90s - you included 😜


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

MX9799 said:


> When did I ever say I "needed" the motor to get up the hill?


I suppose nobody "needs a motor to get up the hill" in the same way that nobody "needs" a little blue pill to make their wee-wee hard.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

D. Inoobinati said:


> I suppose nobody "needs a motor to get up the hill" in the same way that nobody "needs" a little blue pill to make their wee-wee hard.


Exactly now you get it


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## MtnBkrBob (Aug 15, 2007)

I think E-bikes are here to stay. Forty years of MX and mountain biking have left me with fractured vertebrae, herniated disks and many concussions. I no longer look for PRs or KOMs. I just want to make it around the trail. For me, it seems like E-bikes have allowed me to turn back the clock and I can once again enjoy the ride.


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## R3aPerCr3W (11 mo ago)

Ducman said:


> Just enjoy your time out riding with your friends. Don't get so caught up in what other people are riding.



True to the letter ,, and the comments about having KOM and what not in Strava ... oh come one my recording for Strava are my own achievement I dont have to compare it with others ... heck people can start the recording button and ride a Harley Davidson for that matter and how is that I am concern with that ? 

To each its own ... 

As for the danger that E bike pose to the narrow trails separation of the trail will be good. From my home to travel to the trails I need to use normal roads with sea of traffics and what not I cant expect the traffic to stop just for me to use the road can I ?


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## R3aPerCr3W (11 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> No.
> No you don't.


This is just like "I just bought Marlin 7 " and when I open up my insta heyy there is a new Scott 2022 up in the line up ... maybe I go buy that as well .. owhh wait ...


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> unsurprising, the arms race begins


we're just trying to get your panties in a bunch. luckily it doesn't take much...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> we're just trying to get your panties in a bunch. luckily it doesn't take much...


thong brah. or is it a brah thong?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

richj8990 said:


> *I was wrong…*


You had me at…
=sParty


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> Still going to follow the same mantra of don't be a dick while doing it.


It's truly remarkable how often that policy solves most problems.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> thong brah. or is it a brah thong?


Manties?


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## itsky (Jul 26, 2011)

Why don’t ebikers just buy real dirt bikes?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

itsky said:


> Why don’t ebikers just buy real dirt bikes?


I’ve got both ebike & dirt bike.
Heck, got all three if we’re including pedal bikes, too.
Several of the pedal variety — road, long- & mid-travel mountain, singlespeed mountain.
Before retiring, I commuted to/from work on a bicycle, too.
They’re all fun. Just about everything with 2 wheels is fun.
=sParty


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

itsky said:


> Why don’t ebikers just buy real dirt bikes?


Broaden your horizon brah.


Sparticus said:


> Just about everything with 2 wheels is fun.
> =sParty


What he said.


My Levo SL is a dirt bike and so is my Stumpy!


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

itsky said:


> Why don’t ebikers just buy real dirt bikes?


you act like plenty of us don't already. some of have street bikes also. bikes are fun. who knew?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

there are 2 kinds of ebikers.

the ones who have manners/trail etiquette and the ones who don't. 

ebikes change the speed differential equations. other trail users expect bikes coming downhill to go fast. they _don't_ expect bikes going uphill to be going very fast. when they do, problems arise unless the rider is paying attention to this fact and takes steps to prevent a negative encounter. 

this is going to be the biggest reason that land managers will treat ebikes differently.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. 

People that like the thrill of riding on trails or off road. And, people that like exercise. Natural conflict when they encounter each other? 

Rider 1: "You are doing bike riding wrong!"
Rider 2: "Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my fun."

To me, ebikes will be handy for when I worry about how I'll get back from max range of my ride. For when I've ridden past the Bingo Fuel range of my body or joints.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> there are 2 kinds of ebikers.
> 
> the ones who have manners/trail etiquette and the ones who don't.
> .


actually this holds true with all bikers 

it dont matter if you have a motor or not


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Harold said:


> there are 2 kinds of ebikers.





cmg said:


> actually this holds true with all bikers
> 
> it dont matter if you have a motor or not


correct. just 2 kinds of bikers regardless of the style of bike...


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> correct. just 2 kinds of bikers regardless of the style of bike...


The kind that stop to ask if you need help (when you are fixing a flat) or the ones that blow by without even saying hello


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

cmg said:


> actually this holds true with all bikers
> 
> it dont matter if you have a motor or not


Yes it does and he already explained why.


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

I actually always stop when I see a biker or hiker that may need assistance......It's the only right thing to do...and yes my new bike has batteries...


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> I don't see/hear/read about any huge difference trail impact-wise or more head-on crashes or anything. It's fairly benign on a practical trail impact level.


What was the point of this post again?


.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

_CJ said:


> What was the point of this post again?


OP -"Man the whole crew is going over to them." The reply was "The first hit is free." As in a drug analogy, once you try it you are hooked. And that's exactly why I'm going out of my way to not buy a really nice one for singletrack until I really need to. Because I'm sure it is addictive.

The point as I read it is - one has to have the mental toughness not to test-ride Ebikes - because they are a (bad) addiction


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

jeremy3220 said:


> Yes it does and he already explained why.


Manners and Etiquette........like anyone on a trail, with or without motor


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmg said:


> Manners and Etiquette........like anyone on a trail, with or without motor


and those with a motor have to take extra care or they create more problems than those without a motor...since it seems you can't quite grasp it.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> and those with a motor have to take extra care or they create more problems than those without a motor...since it seems you can't quite grasp it.


just so l grasp it properly........
would that be Manners and Etiquette?
much like anyone............


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

cmg said:


> just so l grasp it properly........
> would that be Manners and Etiquette?
> much like anyone............


Your grasp is improper.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

cmg said:


> just so l grasp it properly........
> would that be Manners and Etiquette?
> much like anyone............


no. it's quite ok for non motorized bike riders to be total douchebags. i mean, just read this thread and you can see it's pretty clear...


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Jack7782 said:


> OP -"Man the whole crew is going over to them." The reply was "The first hit is free." As in a drug analogy, once you try it you are hooked. And that's exactly why I'm going out of my way to not buy a really nice one for singletrack until I really need to. Because I'm sure it is addictive.
> 
> The point as I read it is - one has to have the mental toughness not to test-ride Ebikes - because they are a (bad) addiction


Bad? okay, whatever you need to tell yourself. 

The condescension in statements like these are just so tiring..."I'm not going to buy one until I _need_ _to_", "I don't _need _an ebike yet". 

Newsflash, most people don't need them, they're just more fun, more versatile. I never needed ratcheting box end wrenches, or an impact wrench, but God damn if don't wonder how I ever got along without them every time I use them. ebikes are just a better tool for the job. Simple as that.

.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> Newsflash, most people don't need them, they're just more fun, more versatile.




For some, yes. For others, no


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Faster more experienced riders are always required to safely pass slower riders.... That goes for almost all motorsports and including mountain biking....


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> For some, yes. For others, no


*most*

mōst

_determiner_

greatest in amount, quantity, or degree.

.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> *most*
> 
> mōst
> 
> ...






Thanks, always wondered about the definition of that word


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

_CJ said:


> they're just more fun, more versatile.


Uhhh...okay...

🤪


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

_CJ said:


> I never needed ratcheting box end wrenches, or an impact wrench, but God damn if don't wonder how I ever got along without them every time I use them.


Totally, those are the bomb. People that think they need them with flex heads though, sheesh  Maybe one day when I'm too old and can't bend my wrists that well but until then I gotta earn my wrench turns, thank you very much!


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

nilswalk said:


> Totally, those are the bomb. People that think they need them with flex heads though, sheesh  Maybe one day when I'm too old and can't bend my wrists that well but until then I gotta earn my wrench turns, thank you very much!


What about those e wrenches, though?
Oh wait, they have a motor, completely different thing. Don’t even belong in the same tool box.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmg said:


> just so l grasp it properly........
> would that be Manners and Etiquette?
> much like anyone............


_more _than everyone else


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

I read the comparison about power tools and I am not anti- e bike in any way but I’m not in a rush to finish my rides. Power tools are to get a job done faster and more efficiently. I like to enjoy my rides and to actually see the nature around me. I’ve ridden a high dollar e bike and it was very impressive but I just don’t need one since I’m an ex bmx-er that jumps and hucks off of everything. I have gone back and forth about buying one but I literally have like 9 bikes and I really don’t need the extra weight, also my out of shape a$# needs more exercise anyway, lol.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> no. it's quite ok for non motorized bike riders to be total douchebags. i mean, just read this thread and you can see it's pretty clear...


you raise a good point


Harold said:


> _more _than everyone else


lm no ebiker, but l dont see why any groups manners or etiquette needs to be "more" than another groups, with 'respect' for each other we will all go happily on our own merry way.

Westcoasthucker does raise a good point though........


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmg said:


> lm no ebiker, but l dont see why any groups manners or etiquette needs to be "more" than another groups, with 'respect' for each other we will all go happily on our own merry way.


ebikers need to make a greater effort to slow down when encountering other trail users, at least in climbing and flat terrain where the motor is likely to be providing power.


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

Why can’t people ride what they want to ride without someone else’s opinion? Everyone out there is out there with different goals and intentions. I ride regular o’le mountain bikes that you have to pedal hard to make them go hard but I couldn’t care less what anybody else is riding as long as they are actually outdoors having fun.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Tommy E said:


> Why can’t people ride what they want to ride without someone else’s opinion? Everyone out there is out there with different goals and intentions. I ride regular o’le mountain bikes that you have to pedal hard to make them go hard but I couldn’t care less what anybody else is riding as long as they are actually outdoors having fun.


must be nice to ride by yourself on private property, eh?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> ebikers need to make a greater effort to slow down when encountering other trail users, at least in climbing and flat terrain where the motor is likely to be providing power.


so Manners & Trail Etiquette then?
the same as everyone else with or without a motor? with or without a bike? with or without a dog? with or without 
................


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

Harold said:


> must be nice to ride by yourself on private property, eh?


Nope, I’m on heavily frequented trails but it doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t seem to bother anyone else what other people are actually riding. One guy used to hit the trails on a suron electric dirt bike that did like 50mph. I actually got him hooked on mountain biking by lending him a bike and he now rides a yeti.


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

I think this has turned into this -


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

_CJ said:


> ebikes are just a better tool for the job. Simple as that.


Cuz biking uphill is just a job. Just like work but better scenery. EMtbs just make that crappy job pass by faster; instead of the clock, I can watch the drain indicator.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

I'm not dealing with more complex bikes until I need them. I'm not dealing with batteries, shocks, throttles, switches, linkages, and chargers until fate makes me. That it is more capable and therefore a better tool doesn't hold water with me.

So,... I'm not getting an ebike until I need one. Nice that the tech is being test piloted by someone. It should be pretty cool tech by the time I need an ebike. Just surfing the Trek rail webpage and trying to find other ways to say "until I need an ebike." Maybe wait until I need an ebike,...for the wife.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

How ‘bout this weather!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

cmg said:


> so Manners & Trail Etiquette then?
> the same as everyone else with or without a motor? with or without a bike? with or without a dog? with or without
> ................


Now you are purposely trolling and close to getting warning points for doing so.

Harold made it very clear that the difference is eBikes "can" travel faster uphill and on flats then a pedal bike can because of the assist, that fact is not up for debate. Because they "can" do that, those that do, do that have to be more cautious on uphill sections of Multi use trail. Unless someone is pro, they are going to climb at a slower pace and have much more time to negotiate traffic with other riders, pedestrians and equestrians. 

The point he was making was simple. On uphill and flats eBike riders have to practice good behavior as if they were travelling downhill. That means being aware of your speed and how other trail users will perceive that speed when they might not be used to a Emountain bike going uphill at 10 to 15mph where the pedal mountain bikes they are familiar with max around 4 or 5 mph.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

ZX11 said:


> I'm not dealing with more complex bikes until I need them. I'm not dealing with batteries, shocks, throttles, switches, linkages, and chargers until fate makes me. That it is more capable and therefore a better tool doesn't hold water with me.
> 
> So,... I'm not getting an ebike until I need one. Nice that the tech is being test piloted by someone. It should be pretty cool tech by the time I need an ebike. Just surfing the Trek rail webpage and trying to find other ways to say "until I need an ebike." Maybe wait until I need an ebike,...for the wife.


That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing 👍

In the meantime, I am entering week 5 of this…


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> How ‘bout this weather!


Meh.

Wednesday was 62F and the last of the ice and snow had just about melted away.
This morning we got a foot of snow and it's 14F again.

😖


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

mtnbkrmike said:


> That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing 👍
> 
> In the meantime, I am entering week 5 of this…
> View attachment 1972072


Sweet fat bikes. Studded? Nice, you have a back up in case the first one's battery dies or the bike needs maintenance.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

ZX11 said:


> I'm not dealing with more complex bikes until I need them. I'm not dealing with batteries, shocks, throttles, switches, linkages, and chargers until fate makes me. That it is more capable and therefore a better tool doesn't hold water with me.


Are you on a rigid single speed? I did that for about a day. Too harsh of a ride for me.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Nat said:


> Are you on a rigid single speed? I did that for about a day. Too harsh of a ride for me.


Rigid ten speed. Hence me browsing the Trek Rail. And I rode with a guy on a Trek Rail. Nice. The rigid is grab and go. 

Post relates to the idea that a fully loaded bike is by definition a better tool than a simple bike. The right tool for the job is a better tool. That right tool may be the simple bike.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Cuz biking uphill is just a job. Just like work but better scenery. EMtbs just make that crappy job pass by faster; instead of the clock, I can watch the drain indicator.



Such a sad outlook on riding (imo) Can't relate to that even remotely.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> Now you are purposely trolling and close to getting warning points for doing so..


you're kidding me?
Meh whatever



Klurejr said:


> Harold made it very clear that the difference is eBikes "can" travel faster uphill and on flats then a pedal bike can because of the assist, that fact is not up for debate. Because they "can" do that, those that do, do that have to be more cautious on uphill sections of Multi use trail. Unless someone is pro, they are going to climb at a slower pace and have much more time to negotiate traffic with other riders, pedestrians and equestrians.
> 
> The point he was making was simple. On uphill and flats eBike riders have to practice good behavior as if they were travelling downhill. That means being aware of your speed and how other trail users will perceive that speed when they might not be used to a Emountain bike going uphill at 10 to 15mph where the pedal mountain bikes they are familiar with max around 4 or 5 mph.


so basically you agree with me? 
if you read and comprehend my posts you will see l was agreeing with Harold, except making the point that all trail users need to act appropriately, not just ebikes

but whatever, wield your power and l guess lll see you lot later


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## urnso2 (Sep 10, 2007)

I bought a Levo ebike for fun and exercise. Primarily because the good trails are a few miles away from my house and I have limited time to ride. The Levo allows me more time on the technical trails I enjoy riding.

With exception of uphills the Levo isn’t faster (top speed) than my other bikes. The pedal assists tops out at 20 mph on my Levo and 18 mph on my wife’s Kenevo. I’ve gone faster on my SX Trail and hard tail. I haven’t noticed any increase in impact on the trails. If anything, the “traction control” on the pedal assist results in less tire slip on steep climbs. I also I get good exercise with the Levo because I ride more often.
Range anxiety and maintenance haven’t been an issue. You can still pedal with a dead battery but I almost always get tired myself before it dies. My only failures have been tires, rims, pedals and derailleurs; just like on my other bikes. Cost is the biggest con and weight is another.

People complained about bikes with suspension and disk brakes. For me, I enjoy using technology to improve my riding experience. I like seeing different bikes and try to be polite as possible on the trails.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

ZX11 said:


> Sweet fat bikes. Studded? Nice, you have a back up in case the first one's battery dies or the bike needs maintenance.


Re battery and maintenance:

We rode for 5+ hours in minus 18C temps 2 days ago and we each had 3 of 5 bars of battery power left.
Once I replaced all the SX and NX garbage hanging off these bikes, life has been good. Really good.
The bikes have basically been maintenance free, despite having been ridden lots (including daily for the past 4+ weeks, usually more than once a day). The only thing I have done is replace the brake pads on mine. That’s it. Not even so much as a single adjustment of anything has been required.
My Druid on the other hand has been like a semi-exotic sports car, in terms of both performance _and_ maintenance.

EDIT: I checked my data. The actual ride time was closer to 4 hours.

And also, there is one issue with both bikes - noises. When we first got them 1.5 years ago, I think that they had been assembled by a team of imbeciles. I have never had bikes with more mysterious noises. Not surprisingly, I think most were coming from the motor mounts and headset. My daughter’s bike had to be fully disassembled and reassembled before the noises were eliminated. Thankfully, this has now been addressed but the loads on the motor mounts and headset do concern me (mostly because mechanical noises seem to drive me more insane than others).


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## swannycg (Jul 5, 2019)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> Ebikes are for real and they are here to stay. As an avid lifetime cyclist, it baffles me that someone would hate on another way to have fun on two wheels…
> (Que the crybabies here)


Couldnt agree more! Always haters.


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

Soon we will also see many fat and unfit bikers. In fact I have seen a husband and wife in my neighborhood who can hardly walk but they also have e-bikes.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Stanceslao said:


> Soon we will also see many fat and unfit bikers. In fact I have seen a husband and wife in my neighborhood who can hardly walk but they also have e-bikes.


We already have lots of fat and unfit bikers…


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Stanceslao said:


> Soon we will also see many fat and unfit bikers. In fact I have seen a husband and wife in my neighborhood who can hardly walk but they also have e-bikes.


Good for them.
Better than riding the couch.
=sParty


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

cmg said:


> you're kidding me?
> Meh whatever
> 
> 
> ...


You purposely repeated harold and left out the only part that was a difference, thus implying there is no difference. You know what you are doing and you even try to do it with me.

The Subtle prodding of other users no matter the topic is what leads to all out flame wars, and that is exactly what you were doing.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> The Subtle prodding of other users no matter the topic is what leads to all out flame wars, and that is exactly what you were doing.


thats a two way street, and l wasnt the only one on it ;-)

to sum up; lm happy that folks of all persuasions* are out in nature, l just hope we all have respect for each other so bad interactions are minimised


* except horse riders, IME they're f...wits and do more damage than any bike (with or without motor)


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

Klurejr said:


> You purposely repeated harold and left out the only part that was a difference, thus implying there is no difference. You know what you are doing and you even try to do it with me.
> 
> The Subtle prodding of other users no matter the topic is what leads to all out flame wars, and that is exactly what you were doing.


Good god you are amazingly blind to who is prodding here. What sub- forum is this???


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

downcountry said:


> Good god you are amazingly blind to who is prodding here. What sub- forum is this???


careful, we'll both get an enforced break, but at least you see it too


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

Can't we just all get along ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ;-)...Can't everyone have an opinion without bashing folks who disagree with yours?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Good for them.
> Better than riding the couch.
> =sParty


Couch surfing is best done Saturday at 8am. Coffee and woodworking shows on PBS 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Wow…as a noob to this forum I see more bickering here than the local playground. Weird.

When Im out riding everyone gets along and helps each other out on the trail, regardless of who is riding what. I come on here and its the complete opposite. Instead of “get off my lawn”, its “get off my trail” here.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> We already have lots of fat and unfit bikers…


Hey! I resemble that remark!


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Stanceslao said:


> Soon we will also see many fat and unfit bikers. In fact I have seen a husband and wife in my neighborhood who can hardly walk but they also have e-bikes.


So….isnt that a good thing? Wouldnt an ebike allow them to get out and exercise where they otherwise wouldnt?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Good for them.
> Better than riding the couch.
> =sParty


Wha? Now we gotta share the trails with eCouches?


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

cmg said:


> thats a two way street, and l wasnt the only one on it ;-)
> 
> to sum up; lm happy that folks of all persuasions* are out in nature, l just hope we all have respect for each other so bad interactions are minimised
> 
> ...


Meh. All in good humor.

He loves dogs but hates people in padded bike shorts (the real f...wits).


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chazpat said:


> Wha? Now we gotta share the trails with eCouches?


5years? 12years? 

I never thought I'd see side x side's proliferate to the extent they have. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chazpat said:


> Wha? Now we gotta share the trails with eCouches?


I only ride analog couches.


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

rtonthat said:


> So….isnt that a good thing? Wouldnt an ebike allow them to get out and exercise where they otherwise wouldnt?


I NEVER said it's a bad thing .. I was just stating what I think will be the new norm, and what I currently see. I never bash or berate anyone. In fact when I see fat people on the trails, I use them as my inspiration, if they are willing and can do it, I MUST too, even though I'm not that fat.


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

rtonthat said:


> Wow…as a noob to this forum I see more bickering here than the local playground. Weird.
> 
> When Im out riding everyone gets along and helps each other out on the trail, regardless of who is riding what. I come on here and its the complete opposite. Instead of “get off my lawn”, its “get off my trail” here.


I sometimes share the same sentiment on this forum  . But it's just a forum where people can have rant and "SOME" form of freedom of speech (bar politics especially when "they" don't agree with what you have to say). Forums, just like chat rooms (remember yahoo chat/msn chat?) are not to be taken very personally.

I'm also new to mtn biking, and I see different types of people on the trails. Some are courteous and very helpful, some are A-holes and snobbish... but as long as I do my part, being polite, helpful, courteous on the trails, I feel good... the A-holes, their attitude is their problem and not mine.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Stanceslao said:


> …I never bash or berate anyone. In fact when I see fat people on the trails…


🤔


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## Stanceslao (Nov 5, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> 🤔


So how do you want me to describe fat people?


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Gravitationally challenged?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Stanceslao said:


> Soon we will also see many fat and unfit bikers. In fact I have seen a husband and wife in my neighborhood who can hardly walk but they also have e-bikes.


oh, the horror...

Contemptuous much?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Since I got my ebike, I only broke a couple of personal Strava records and I haven't taken any local KOMs. My body is so shot to hell that I can barely ride my ebike. I'm actually riding slower on my ebike than my regular bikes (except on gravel sections). I may end up just gravel pounding my Levo more often seeing it's the only thing that doesn't aggravate my body.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Now you are purposely trolling and close to getting warning points for doing so.
> 
> Harold made it very clear that the difference is eBikes "can" travel faster uphill and on flats then a pedal bike can because of the assist, that fact is not up for debate. Because they "can" do that, those that do, do that have to be more cautious on uphill sections of Multi use trail. Unless someone is pro, they are going to climb at a slower pace and have much more time to negotiate traffic with other riders, pedestrians and equestrians.
> 
> The point he was making was simple. On uphill and flats eBike riders have to practice good behavior as if they were travelling downhill. That means being aware of your speed and how other trail users will perceive that speed when they might not be used to a Emountain bike going uphill at 10 to 15mph where the pedal mountain bikes they are familiar with max around 4 or 5 mph.


Honestly, When I go out hiking with the wife on the OC trails by the beach, I’ve never even been close to get hit by an uphill rider. But many times, when trail points down and we’re heading up, is when we almost get hit! 

As always, it’s the downhill speed differential that is the issue and will always be. People with bias against Ebikes should really stop trying to make this a point. 

You’re previous thread on the speed of climbing ebike, was entertaining at best. I’ve changed a few of my ebike rides to normal bike on Strava and guess what? I can’t even make the top ten on climbs. I guess if I were to ride turbo, I could at certain sections hit double the speed of a regular bike. But honestly, it’s rare. 

I’ll try to moderate more often in this forum. It seems like a lot of non-ebikers are coming back into the ebike forum. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

mtbbiker said:


> Honestly, When I go out hiking with the wife on the OC trails by the beach, I’ve never even been close to get hit by an uphill rider. But many times, when trail points down and we’re heading up, is when we almost get hit!
> 
> As always, it’s the downhill speed differential that is the issue and will always be. People with bias against Ebikes should really stop trying to make this a point.
> 
> ...


Wow, you completely missed the point of both the post you quoted and the last thread I started. 

But welcome back?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Wow, you completely missed the point of both the post you quoted and the last thread I started.
> 
> But welcome back?


Thanks for the welcome back! And no I definitely did not miss the point of your posts. You road an ebike from a perspective of someone against Ebikes with a point to be made. 

When you want to go on a real ebike ride and off of fire roads, come to Greer Ranch and I’ll show you around. I guarantee you won’t be averaging 15mph up hill and I bet you’ll be dead tired by the time we are done. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

No, I rode an eBike cause I wanted to see how fast they were after decades of being told they are not much faster. I loved it, I want one and I will get one as soon as I can afford it. I am not against them, not sure why you think I am. You and many others are just upset that I revealed to mtbr that they are indeed capable of going much faster than pedal bikes uphill. I dont think that is a problem at all, especially for the area I rode it.

But still many see that as some sort of threat. Just admit they are faster and move on to more important issues. You act like if you admit they are faster then something bad might happen.... just embrace it as a fact and move on.


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