# What kind of shoes should I wear? (no clipless)



## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't think I am quite ready to "clip in" and was wondering (after a 4 mile ride which had me slipping off the pedals) what is the best type of shoe for riding. More like a running shoe, cross trainer, hiking boot type or what.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

A lot of people riding flats like these shoes. The soles are made of sticky climbing shoe rubber.

fiveten


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## RaptorTC (Jan 22, 2012)

Teva Links are really popular too.
Teva The Links Lunar Rock - Zappos.com Free Shipping BOTH Ways

But as a general rule of thumb the skateboard/bmx type shoes usually do a pretty good job at gripping the pins on the pedals.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Skate shoe, BMX shoe, mountain bike shoe, something with a flat sole and that is stiff enough to support your foot. Your pedal choice is just as important so if you're running the stock pedals that came with your bike it might be worth considering upgrading those as well. 

I'm running DC skate shoes (for now) with Straitline pedals. If your pedals have enough grip you won't require the 5.10 sticky shoes. Of course, those shoes are awesome and if you have a bit of money to spend to improve your experience go for those or the Tevas.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Nothing will ever offer the grip of clip ins, so don't be fooled by anyone or anything claiming such. Without the physical connection of clipless, no shoe can do what riding clipless can.

With that said, there are shoes that will offer some grip, but don't think that you are going to completely stop slipping off of your pedals with these.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

TenSpeed said:


> Nothing will ever offer the grip of clip ins, so don't be fooled by anyone or anything claiming such. Without the physical connection of clipless, no shoe can do what riding clipless can.
> 
> With that said, there are shoes that will offer some grip, but don't think that you are going to completely stop slipping off of your pedals with these.


This is an ignorant statement. The only direction that clipless pedals offer more retention in is directly upwards. Of course, if you actually used good flat pedals with good shoes you would know that.

My feet don't bounce off pedals at all, ever. Not on my hardtail, not on my full suspension bike, not through rock gardens, not off jumps, it doesn't happen. However, you don't just walk onto a bike with flat pedals and expect to never get bounced off just like you wouldn't expect someone trying clipless for the first time to become an expert at entering and exiting the pedals. It's a skill which requires practice and once you become proficient at it, then there is no longer a debate about one having more grip than the other.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Even with me riding ordinary tenis shoes my foot never slipped ... try some good shoes ( i use 5.10 Impacts 2 ) with some nice platforms, have a reasonable good techique and your feet won't slip from the pedals.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

zebrahum said:


> This is an ignorant statement. The only direction that clipless pedals offer more retention in is directly upwards. Of course, if you actually used good flat pedals with good shoes you would know that.
> 
> My feet don't bounce off pedals at all, ever. Not on my hardtail, not on my full suspension bike, not through rock gardens, not off jumps, it doesn't happen. However, you don't just walk onto a bike with flat pedals and expect to never get bounced off just like you wouldn't expect someone trying clipless for the first time to become an expert at entering and exiting the pedals. It's a skill which requires practice and once you become proficient at it, then there is no longer a debate about one having more grip than the other.


The laws of physics are not ignorant. The physical connection to the pedals prevents your foot from slipping off, especially if you hit something, roll over something, etc, that you are not prepared for. This applies to sudden rainstorms, mud, snow, any type of wet condition, etc. You can call it ignorant, but the statement that a "sticky" shoe and a good pedal are equivalent to being clipped in is just as ignorant.

I am not saying that clipless are for everyone, but for someone looking for the ultimate "grip" there really is no other option.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

TenSpeed said:


> The laws of physics are not ignorant. The physical connection to the pedals prevents your foot from slipping off, especially if you hit something, roll over something, etc, that you are not prepared for. This applies to sudden rainstorms, mud, snow, any type of wet condition, etc. You can call it ignorant, but the statement that a "sticky" shoe and a good pedal are equivalent to being clipped in is just as ignorant.
> 
> I am not saying that clipless are for everyone, but for someone looking for the ultimate "grip" there really is no other option.


I'm not putting forth an argument, I'm telling you that you are wrong.

Grip from clipless pedals is, first off, not grip. It is mechanical retention. It actually means that you have more degrees of freedom than a flat pedal and it can be argued that a foot on a flat pedal actually has more grip than does a metal cleat rotating in a metal sprung holding fixture.

A shoe in contact with a pedal produces multiple points of contact using deformation of the shoe to conform with pins as the grip. Given the proper shoe/pedal interface (and you don't have to be running the highest end stuff to get great grip) you can easily match the "grip" offered by a clipless system when the system is placed under the range of forces experienced in cycling. If you were to, say strike a foot on a pedal with a hammer to the toes then you would obviously see a difference in "grip" but those forces are not in the realm of cycling forces. And if you were to strike your foot in that fashion, would you rather have your toes smashed or have your foot slide backward off the pedal?

Again, the only way that a clipless pedal has more "grip" is when pulling directly upward, which is a pedaling movement that you should never be using anyway.

There are plenty of reasons for people to choose one pedal over the other, grip is not one of those reason. Being unfamiliar with the pedals, how to grip properly, and how to ride flat pedals are not reasons to claim that flat pedals have inferior grip.


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## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

danielsilva said:


> Even with me riding ordinary tenis shoes my foot never slipped ... try some good shoes ( i use 5.10 Impacts 2 ) with some nice platforms, have a reasonable good techique and your feet won't slip from the pedals.


I have little doubt that you are correct in that my technique has some room for improvement (to put it mildly), I was just wondering what was the best bet or if it even made a difference.


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## Caffeine Powered (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm not going to get sucked into the argument. I'll simply say for cross country riding clipless is better than toe straps/clips is better than open pedals.

If you're looking for footwear for cycling and an MTB shoe isn't to your liking, look for a shoe with a stiff sole. Flexible soles will stress your foot (the arches) and you will feel it on longer trail rides.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Atl-Biker said:


> I have little doubt that you are correct in that my technique has some room for improvement (to put it mildly), I was just wondering what was the best bet or if it even made a difference.


I should have been more explicit to whom i was directing my reply ... i was replying to TenSpeed and not to you.

And yes, a good pair of shoes does make great difference ! I never sliped from my Superstar CNC Mag's with ordinary shoes but i could feel them "floating" on the pedal. After i started using the Impacts i instantly noticed that the shoe was more secure, with Impacts i simply can't move my foot unless i force my foot away from the pedal.

They are a bit expensive but to me the price is totally worth it.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

I've been riding flats (again) for about 5 years now, after about 5 yrs on clipless. I have never purchased flat-specific shoes.

It has been several years since I've had any pedal bites, and never really have had problems keeping on the pedals. I've ridden in gym shoes, which have worked fine, although the lack of sole bed support leaves my feet tired after a long ride. The last couple of years, I've just worn low top lite hiking shoes w/ a good foot support (currently using Vasque something or others). I'm not saying they are as good as 5.10's or comparable shoes, but they have worked just fine for me, and I can wear them for activies other than riding. Plus they are obviously the best choice for extended hike-a-bike!


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## ElwoodT (Mar 13, 2011)

A skate shoe with stiff soul and a flat bottom/thread. Vans don't work for me because the pin gets lost in the waffles. I never loose contact on my HT. On my ridgid I have to pick cleaner lines to keep feet on the pedals and the front wheel on the ground.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

more important question- what kind of PEDALS are under those shoes? the cheap, flimsy pedals that come with most mountain bikes are not really meant to be a long-term part of the bike, just something to be replaced with your personal choice of real pedals.

I didn't read all the bickering over pedals above, but I will say that going to a clipless shoe/pedal system is the best thing I have ever done for my riding. I feel naked without being clipped in. I would rather ride a bike with bald tires than ride flats. based on _my_ experience, it's absurd not to clip in for common xc type riding. your experience may be different, but you won't know until you try.

if you need help with finding places to ride or working on you bike in Atlanta (assuming that's where you are), PM me.


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## Meowhead (Jan 15, 2012)

Definitely get some GOOD pedals to replace the stock ones and a stiff soled shoe...running shoes have too much flexion. I use a bmx/skate type shoe and get nice grip


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

*cleats*

My way was to bite the bullet, take a couple of falls, and get used to the cleated shoes. I used strap clips for years on road bikes but can be a DISASTER on a mountain bike. Get cleated mountain bike shoes with multiple release cleats and just get used to them.

That said, all the wild downhill types here in the northern part of the grant state of confusion use platform pedals with really rough grip on their surface. But, they're young and crazy.


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## aaronsteven (Jan 9, 2012)

Meowhead said:


> Definitely get some GOOD pedals to replace the stock ones and a stiff soled shoe...running shoes have too much flexion. I use a bmx/skate type shoe and get nice grip


Are they good for running too ?
I need some good specially for running and walking and they should be comfortable as a have back pain!


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## KootenayKuz (Oct 14, 2011)

Check out the Five Ten Sam Hill Shoe! I have them and love them. Get a shoe designed for the purpose. As for clipless or not...that is a debate that will go on forever. I simply don't have enough skill to get out fast enough...so quality platform pedals (e.g. Shimano DX) are for me!


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## uzyrmind (Nov 17, 2011)

Tystevens said:


> I've been riding flats (again) for about 5 years now, after about 5 yrs on clipless. I have never purchased flat-specific shoes.
> 
> It has been several years since I've had any pedal bites, and never really have had problems keeping on the pedals. I've ridden in gym shoes, which have worked fine, although the lack of sole bed support leaves my feet tired after a long ride. The last couple of years, I've just worn low top lite hiking shoes w/ a good foot support (currently using Vasque something or others). I'm not saying they are as good as 5.10's or comparable shoes, but they have worked just fine for me, and I can wear them for activies other than riding. Plus they are obviously the best choice for extended hike-a-bike!


I wear my low hikers too, mainly because they are waterproof and still have a good stiff grip on the pedals ....and least importantly I don't have to change shoes when I get to work:thumbsup:


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

I rode with DC skate shoes for almost 10 years in bmx and mtb while on flats, got a pair of 510s last summer and will never ever switch back. HUGE difference. I still use clipless on my road bike and on super long rides on the mtb.

I think clipless are better, no doubt about it. Personally i enjoy hitting all the optional drops and jumps, and i do not like jumping in clipless, so i ride flats.



zebrahum said:


> This is an ignorant statement. The only direction that clipless pedals offer more retention in is directly upwards. Of course, if you actually used good flat pedals with good shoes you would know that.
> 
> My feet don't bounce off pedals at all, ever. Not on my hardtail, not on my full suspension bike, not through rock gardens, not off jumps, it doesn't happen. However, you don't just walk onto a bike with flat pedals and expect to never get bounced off just like you wouldn't expect someone trying clipless for the first time to become an expert at entering and exiting the pedals. It's a skill which requires practice and once you become proficient at it, then there is no longer a debate about one having more grip than the other.


No ^ THIS is an ignorant statement. Lift your foot up on the upstroke with flats - YOUR FOOT COMES OFF? WHAT?

Lift your foot up on clipless - energy to the cranks.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

aaronsteven said:


> Are they good for running too ?
> I need some good specially for running and walking and they should be comfortable as a have back pain!


no, a shoe that is stiff enough to ride in comfortably is probably not being to be great for a lot of walking, and even worse for running. buy some comfy running shoes and buy some riding-specific shoes. if you ride in flexy shoes that are made for running, your feet are going to hurt even worse from pedaling. this is why cycling shoes are made as stiff as they are.

I ride in Specialized mtb shoes with cleats and Shimano SPD pedals, and I run in Columbia trail runners. If I wanted to ride on flat pedals (although I would rather shoot myself in the face than waste time doing that), i would get the stiffest flat skate shoes I could find.


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## huffster (Nov 14, 2011)

uzyrmind said:


> I wear my low hikers too, mainly because they are waterproof and still have a good stiff grip on the pedals


A couple other advantages to this option are:
1) if you are truly mountain biking in mountains there will be an occasion to "hike-a-bike". Hiking boots are good for this...so I hear

2) I have found hiking boots to be a godsend in cold weather riding.

This advice is coming from someone who has equal allegiance to flats and clips. I change in/out all the time based on the situation.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

While At Rome said:


> No ^ THIS is an ignorant statement. Lift your foot up on the upstroke with flats - YOUR FOOT COMES OFF? WHAT?
> 
> Lift your foot up on clipless - energy to the cranks.


That's been proven in several studies to be an inefficient method of pedaling. Yep, you can do it, but it's not a sustainable use of your muscles. The down stroke is the power stroke which uses the large groups of muscles that are designed for that sort of motion, that muscle group can be accessed by either clipless or flat pedals.


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## Crash Test Dumby (May 3, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> That's been proven in several studies to be an inefficient method of pedaling. Yep, you can do it, but it's not a sustainable use of your muscles. The down stroke is the power stroke which uses the large groups of muscles that are designed for that sort of motion, that muscle group can be accessed by either clipless or flat pedals.


Its just not worth the time Zeb, clipless is like a cult, the followers wont be swayed. While there are many great members here on MTBR definitely 3 of those I trust the most would be you, Mimi and Andrwswitch. You and Mimi have both switched back to flat pedals and even a young racerboy like Andrw admits the pedal on the upstroke thing is overstated. Whatever, til today I have avoided this subject and I wont get dragged into the arguments, but just had to chime in this once. :madman: and I will probably regret it.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Crash Test Dumby said:


> Its just not worth the time Zeb, clipless is like a cult, the followers wont be swayed. While there are many great members here on MTBR definitely 3 of those I trust the most would be you, Mimi and Andrwswitch. You and Mimi have both switched back to flat pedals and even a young racerboy like Andrw admits the pedal on the upstroke thing is overstated. Whatever, til today I have avoided this subject and I wont get dragged into the arguments, but just had to chime in this once. :madman: and I will probably regret it.


I see the cult as the people that swear that some sort of skate shoe and pedals that look like they could chew right through your leg are equal to being clipped in. It simply is not the same, nor will it ever be the same. I am not going to argue about this upstroke, because I really try not to do that. I don't feel like it is an efficient way to pedal, and do not want to rely on that in any situation.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Crash Test Dumby said:


> Its just not worth the time Zeb, clipless is like a cult, the followers wont be swayed. While there are many great members here on MTBR definitely 3 of those I trust the most would be you, Mimi and Andrwswitch. You and Mimi have both switched back to flat pedals and even a young racerboy like Andrw admits the pedal on the upstroke thing is overstated. Whatever, til today I have avoided this subject and I wont get dragged into the arguments, but just had to chime in this once. :madman: and I will probably regret it.


I hear ya, preaching to the choir and the zealots outside with the pitchforks and torches.

I'm not [trying to] bash clipless, it is a viable option for everyone and it should be a personal decision of which to use. I do tend to get a bit worked up when people are bible thumping clipless as the way and the truth and the only option. So here's my turn, continued:

It was, for a long time, that the only perceived option to toe-clip pedals was to go clipless. In that situation there was an improvement in efficiency and, in my opinion, in safety. Those pedals had poor grip, small platforms, and were usually kind of cheaply made. The only thing that kept you on the pedal was the basket which you frequently had to crank down too hard. Power Grips; actually can't complain about those, they were a good solution to the problem at hand. So you either had a strap attaching your foot to a pedal or you had clipless pedals. Your flat pedal options were shin destroying bear trap pedals that really didn't offer a ton of traction. So there we were, bike shops know what they sell and they were selling their best options. Bear trap pedals were pretty poor options so they didn't show up at most shops leaving you to choose from the toe-clip pedals that probably came with your bike or a set of clipless pedals. The smart option here is clipless pedals, no doubt.

The road side of the industry leaked in telling everyone about "pedaling circles" not actually explaining that that doesn't mean to "pull" on a pedal but instead to unweight your leg to aid in the circular motion because the dead weight of your back leg impedes the downward force exerted by the front leg. How many people have been told this when they pick up their clipless pedals from the shop? Likely no one; it takes research into pedaling techniques or having a personal coach to help you with pedaling form.

Now we sit at a turning point in cycling technology, flat pedals are actually being engineered and developed for the express purpose of grip while simultaneously we have a crop of amazing new shoes using tread patterns and rubber compounds created and employed just to keep your feet stuck to a pedal. With this evolution we have transformed the flat pedal from a bear trap horror show into a viable pedal option. For those who have made an honest attempt at riding a good pedal/shoe combo the consensus is that there is no great disadvantage to making the switch. Primarily you loose a little bit of efficiency because of the the stiff sole and metal interface of a clipless pedal is very efficient. This is why people who race will probably never make the switch; when you're suffering at mile 30 (or hell, mile 3) you need all the help you can get!

Listen; ride clipless, ride flats, ride with your damn legs taped to the ends of the cranks if it makes you happy just ride your bike. I'm simply trying to turn the tide of misinformation that everyone spews because it's what they heard or read. Guess what everyone: you don't have to ride clipless pedals to become a better rider, you don't have to ride flat pedals to become a better rider, but you could probably benefit from giving both an honest try and maybe mixing it up once in a while. After 10+ years of clipless riding, it's nice to feel free on a bike again. Will I go back to clipless? Maybe, depends on what I'm feeling. Since I keep writing all these rants about flat pedals I think I should spend some time on clipless in the upcoming season to make sure I still feel the same way I did when I first switched 2 years ago. Who knows what'll happen?

Long days at work and no riding make z... something... something.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

interesting case for platforms, Z. i come from a bmx freestyle background, so riding platforms seemed inevitable for me. but i went from riding a bmx bike directly to riding a SS rigid mountain bike (which is not unlike a bmx bike in some respects) and I think that, in my case with riding SS, being clipped in is the only option. I rode with some nice platform pedals for a while and then went clipless. i suggest that everyone try each method, but I think that the advantages of being clipped in outweigh the advantages of platforms, so 

I ride a rigid chromoly fork and a single-speed drivetrain, and most people think that's insane.

however, I am going to throw my DK Distorsion pedals (need to find some shin guards first) on my Karate Monkey and give that a try on my local familiar trails next time I go riding. expect a report back soon.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Listen; ride clipless, ride flats, ride with your damn legs taped to the ends of the cranks if it makes you happy just ride your bike. I'm simply trying to turn the tide of misinformation that everyone spews because it's what they heard or read. Guess what everyone: you don't have to ride clipless pedals to become a better rider, you don't have to ride flat pedals to become a better rider, but you could probably benefit from giving both an honest try and maybe mixing it up once in a while. After 10+ years of clipless riding, it's nice to feel free on a bike again. Will I go back to clipless? Maybe, depends on what I'm feeling. Since I keep writing all these rants about flat pedals I think I should spend some time on clipless in the upcoming season to make sure I still feel the same way I did when I first switched 2 years ago. Who knows what'll happen?


Amen. There is no such thing as an absolute "better" for any purpose. Ride what makes you feel most comfortable, not what people on MTBR, the bike shop, or trail make you think you should wear.

And I'll just say this -- I've seen more riders suffer from the negatives of clipless (usually going clipless before having bike skills) than I have seen benefit substantially from them. Just last month I was on a ride with a relative and his friend. The poor dude crashed 3 times on a very easy trail -- once because he stalled out on a climb and couldn't unclip (landed ribs-first on a stump, wasn't pretty), once because he couldn't clip out fast enough in a slow tech section, and I'm not sure why the third one happened -- I wasn't behind him anymore by that point as it happened on the downhill side of the ride. I don't know how long the guy had been riding or what his experience was. But he sure wasn't reaping many benefits from his clipless pedals -- I was right with him on the climbs, with my 32# bike and platforms, and I didn't go home bruised and muddy!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

^noobs should start with their pedals loose. the clamping mechanism on the pedal is spring-loaded on SPD type pedals, so it's adjustable. start loose so you can clip out more easily.


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## James_spec (Jul 28, 2011)

Dang people, the topic is about shoes. What's with the arguments? Clipless, flat shoes, isn't it all just preference?


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## Atl-Biker (Feb 8, 2012)

I appreciate all of the reply's. I didn't intend for this to become a clipless vs. not argument (hence the title). 

What would be a good newb starting point for new pedals? Once again clipless is not an option as I am still leaning and don't want to kill myself.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Atl-Biker said:


> I appreciate all of the reply's. I didn't intend for this to become a clipless vs. not argument (hence the title).
> 
> What would be a good newb starting point for new pedals? Once again clipless is not an option as I am still leaning and don't want to kill myself.


Wellgo MG-1, Kona Wahwah are both well liked inexpensive options. If your budget is wide your choices for pedals will be as well. I find it's hard to beat Straitline for grip.


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