# Kona Hot fork options



## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

Hello VRC. This is my first post and and I hope the content is suitable for this VRC forum. I have an early 90s Kona Hot, I am not 100% of the year, but it is definitely before they changed the logo in 94. Here is a photo:










The reason I write to you here is that I am looking at getting a different fork, to add some steerer tube for more bar height (this low-ish position is killing this old man). The fork that is on there is not the original Project 2, but one of the recent ones that Kona are making these days. I am looking at getting either another one of these, but also considering a Vicious Cycles fork for something a little nicer for this old classic. However there are slight differences in the specs for these (as far as I can tell) and I am wondering how much if any effect it would have on the handling if I went with Vicious. The length of the current Project 2s seems to be 410mm, but I cannot find what the offset is. The old catalogs for the bike show it as 1.65" (41.91mm). e.g.:

https://www.konaretro.com/showarticle.php?path=articles/catalogues/&id=1991

The closest Vicious has a length of 413 mm and a 38mm offset. So a little raise in the height, making the head tube angle a little slacker, and maybe more sensitive to handlebar input but also a little less offset making it a little less sensitive or stabler.

I know these differences seems really small but I throwing this out there anyway. I have read Keith Bontrager's article in Dirt Rag about this stuff but I see other posts here with this same Vicious fork being put onto bikes from this time period and wonder about your feelings after the swap, and after really riding em.

Thanks

j


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I have read Keith Bontrager's article in Dirt Rag about this stuff ...


Got a link for that? Looks like it's available only in print (or more accurately 'out-of-print'.)

I can't remember where I have this in my head from, but I think the old P2's were 395mm. Perhaps someone can verify.

Have you considered a stem with more rise? Coupled with a riser bar? I know it's a completely different (non period correct) esthetic, but if it gets you comfortable on your bike it might be worth thinking about.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@Jack0zilla, ahh that would make sense from looking at old photos and in that with the one on there is quite twitchy as it is. When I got the bike it already did not have the original fork. It had a Marzochiwith 80mm of travel, which handled terrible on there. 


Regarding what I have tried, yeah and no.I just took off a riser bar that also was not high enough. I am not exactly going for period correct but know I cut the steerer that is on there way to short to allow any ajustment for trying different bars etc. and want to re do it if possible. If I had the original forks I would be in a spot because I would want to keep em for sure.

Oh, and regarding the Bontrager article, it is unfortunately not online. The article is in issue 109, from august of 2004. It is a great talk on the subject of adding a longer fork to an old bike, with nice diagrams that make it easy to follow. I wish it were online as it seemes to be quite a good reference and before digging through boxes of back issues I tried to find it online for too long.


Thanks for taking time to read and comment. The help is greatly appreciated.

J


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> When I got the bike it already did not have the original fork. It had a Marzochiwith 80mm of travel, which handled terrible on there.


Ahhh! I didn't get that on the first reading. You know a new 410mm P2 is about $60 on a number of $ites? IMHO, a steal for a nice triple butted crmo fork. Probably less than any stem and bar that you'd actually want.

Never ridden a Vicious fork, I'm sure they're fine. Personally I don't like the look of the tapered blades on a frame that I "expect" to see straight legs on. (They look "off" to my eye on Bonty's and Kona's and such.) That's just my bias, which you are under no obligation to take on.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@Jak0zilla, naugh I hear ya on both and am happy for more opinions. I like the look of the Project 2 also, and I am used to it. But was thinking of the Vicious only as it is made in the US etc. But The Project 2 is still probably a safer bet. Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

Ahh so according to this post (well it was something that was sold someplace) the length probably was 395mm from axle to crown

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/649343/

So even the 410 we currently can get for the Project 2 is off. I also have a larger front tire than rear (the rear of the frame is very narrow and only 1.95 or so fit nice, at least if you want some mud clearance) so again raising it. I bet my handling is off as it is. Ugh.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

That front tire looks pretty beefy-- how big is it?

In addition to the slightly slacker handling due to the height and longer fork, the weight of that tire is probably contributing too. But if you are looking for comfort going back to 1.95 won't help either.....Hmmm.....conundrum!


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@yo-Nate-y, yeah, it is a monster (on this bike at least) 2.2. I will definitely be doing something with the tires after this exercise. It must be having an effect as you point out. I am really not a downhill type of person, and more of a long all day climbing type so worst case going back to 1.95 to round it out but maybe some middle ground will work out too. Like two 2.0 tires. I had a 2.0 in the rear before and it fit ok. A few spring races had me walking where I should have been able to ride, due to the tire being welded in there with mud and rocks, but I am not racing now either, so a walk is good for me. 

Thanks and your point is noted. I was doing almost anything and everything to ruin the handling of this bike (well I took off the Atom Bomb fork, that was a bit of a help actually).

So I am now looking at:

1) new Taiwanese Project 2 (are they made in Taiwan?)
2) Normal Tire setup (front and rear the same somehow)
3) maybe a lower height headset if that is possible (the FSA that is on it is pretty much thicker below the head tube than it needs to be probably)

But still I am looking at a rise from 395 (hope someone can confirm that this was the original height) to 410. Might not be too bad as I have worse now and am living with it. 

Ultimate goal is to be able to raise the bars that are on it a bit and allow for trying out different bars in the future if I want. 

Thanks again all

j


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I'd say try the matching (smaller) tire option first. The fork difference shouldn't be affecting handling all that much. 

As for raising the bars, Thomsons are great but don't have much rise. Why not try a different stem for more height? The current fork doesn't seem bad at all---then again, if the uncut steerer tube is what you are using to convince yourself you need a Vicious......well, I approve of that!

Another issue that might be the sweep on those bars. I imagine bike was designed to have a long/low set up. That gets you out further forward, so if your current bar set up could be putting you too far back. Maybe that lack of leverage accounts for some of the odd handling? In any case, maybe it would be fruitful to mess around with some bar/stem combos before going for the $$ fork.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Nice looking bike.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@yo-Nate-y hahaha, I do want a nicer fork but I really also want to fix the height issue, and dont really want a crazy tall stem if I can help it. The Vicious actually is quite different and I only chose that to look at as it was the only small builder made unicrown fork I could find that even remotely looked like the Project 2. 

@mechagouki, thanks. It is a little road worn but I have had this for a long long time and really have bonded with it. I would miss it terribly were it lost or stolen.


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

Maybe you want to play with this?: http://alex.phred.org/stemchart/Default.aspx

Cool toy.

Don't bother with trying to swap out HS's, you'll only buy a couple of millimeters.

Do you want to spend {Groovy/Waltworks/Eiglehart/etc.} money? A custom fork is an option. A pricey one, but an option nonetheless. If you want to throw the cash at it, I'll bet it's what would make you the happiest with the results. It's nicer to be able to put whichever stem you want on and not worry that it's the "wrong" one. Stems are supposed to make you comfortable on the bike, you shouldn't feel enslaved to particular rise/reach for handling reasons if it's not the reach/rise that lets you be comfy. (Could also just watch ebay, if you have the patience eventually anything you want will come around. With another scoop of patience it will come around at an affordable price.)

And as far as tires, I'd say it's worth the comfort you buy to ride the biggest tire you have fork clearance and emotional tolerance for. Nothing beats a 2.3 or better. Feels as good as some of the crappy old suspension forks out there, if not better.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

Oh man, now Jak0Zilla has done it. I looked at Waltworks site. Those are quite a bit of a departure from the classic Kona look but wow, wait time is only 6 weeks (projected), they are cheaper than Vicious non-customs and can be exactly the specs of the original but with a threadless steerer. Ugh. This is a major dilemma. Major dilemma.

The bars I have on it now are a bit of a departure though










so ... oh err umm eerr this is not good, thanks Jak0zilla  Gotta figure out if my frame really was the 395mm fork. Hope someone can confirm it.

Thanks again all

j


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Had a vicious fork. very good feel and handling but never got rid of some weird brake shimmy.. i had canti brakes btw and the shimmy was frightening.


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

That seems to be a 1993 Hot, size 16. 

I believe the 93 Hot had the same geometry as other 93 Konas, which means that it wasn't 'suspension-adjusted' - i.e., it was made for a 39cm Project 2 and, as you can see below, the head angle was a half degree lower for size 16 than bigger sizes. By fitting a 41cm fork, you have reduced this further to c69.3 degrees, which is quite slack for a rigid bike. However those way swept-back bars are having the same effect as a short stem, so that is counteracting the longer fork. If I were you, I would save my back and speed up the steering even more by fitting a riser stem and riser bar.

It's a beautiful frame. Does it have the fluted/ribbed Tange Ultimate Ultrastrong down tube? I can't quite make it out from your picture. These two pages are from the US-only version of the 1993 catalogue, which is not on the web anywhere - I think I have them courtesy of Mechagouki, to whom I offer my thanks once more.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@anthonyinhove THANKS, I had actually just found your post in this thread at retrobike( http://www.retrobike.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=308448&sid=e984260d1d799477c437bae9694f7189 ) with part of this catalog, but the specs were missing. Thanks. Would love to have copies of the entire thing.

I am actually not worried about spending the cash to get it right, and I would rather have a longer steerer so I could try other bars and stems, and still have the height I want. The riser stem I have on it, is a 15 degree rise Thomson as it is and that is about and much stem like that that I think I could take. I had a standard riser on it with that too and it was still way to low. I cut that steerer too low for sure. After seeing that other thread (mentioned above) I mailed to Tom Teesdale to see if he remembered the specs for the forks that went on these, but I imagine he is too busy to respond to questions about frames from nearly 20 years ago.

Oh yeah and it has the fluted down tube, and is Tange tubing. It has a TET stamped on the bottom bracket too.

So going off this chart for the offset really helps. Some said the length of these were 395mm and you mention 390. Is it written down somewhere I wonder.

Thanks for the reply and double thanks for that image of the Hot specific catalog. I had always wondered as the Hot was not in the 93 catalog.

j


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@anthonyinhove I checked the size based on this chart and it is a 16" BTW, you nailed that


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

Ok, time for an update. A lot has happened. With leads and info from all of you here, and a thread that @anthonyinhove was in at retrobike, I ended up contacting Tom Teesdale at T.E.T Cycles ( http://tetcycles.com/ ) for the specs for the 93 fork. He responded and sent me specs (attached to this post). He also mentioned that he could make a fork for me. So I went that route. I now have an order in with Tom for a unicrown fork for the Hot, that should be correct for it, but give me more steerer as I wanted. His prices and turn around totally rock BTW.

Oh, he also mentioned that he rides a 93 Hot himself and his has 93 XT/XTR on it. How cool is that. Check out TET Cycles, he is building some cool stuff these days as well it seems.

I also tried the 2.2 WTB Worverine that is on the front, on the back and it fits, OK (wont be perfect in mud but ...). So I am getting one for for the rear to level it out even more.

Thanks to all for your input.

j


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## c2w (Jul 27, 2009)

*a little more feedback?*

[email protected] I am curious as to how your custom Teesdale fork turned out? How did you find the ordering process? Any comments on fork ride quality, welds, paint quality, etc. would be helpful.

The Project 2 fork mounted on my 1994 Kona Explosif measures 400mm ATC (axle to crown), which is odd as the original fork was around 412mm. This makes the bike angles a little too steep.

I bought a new Kona Project 2 410 ATC only to find out later from Kona Tech that the offset is 45mm, which is a fair bit more than the original 39mm. Somehow it didn't feel right, so my search continues.

Tom's custom forks sound great, but before ordering I was hoping for a bit more feedback on your experience.

Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@c2w, so far the fork is perfect. I think I post the image I got from Tom, with the specs for the original forks, hope you saw that. I just told him which year of Hot I had and asked for the fork to be made in the right size and offset for that. The build quality of the fork is great, but I did not exactly order paint. The base fork comes as a flat black, which is like a primer look really. I wanted that look so I did not order the glossy paint. So I cannot say. But what I got I am happy with. The handling of the bike improved greatly and I got more steerer tube so I could put on different bars (like flat bars, Jones H-Bar, or risers, etc.) and that is what I was after. The ordering process from TET is great really, but you have to give it some time. I would say from the time I start talking with Tom, till I got the fork was a little more than 3 weeks. He will order the materials for the fork after you have placed an order and made a deposit, and then he sends updates via email at each step. Like, ordering material, starting building, sending for paint, shipping. It was all very pleasant and we get to chat with Tom as well. He is an interesting and nice person. Main thing though is that the bike is now as it should have been. So contact him, and tell him the year and model of your Kona and he will make it right I think. Isn't it cool that Tom rides an old Kona Hot himself? He has all the period correct drivetrain and brakes on his though. thought that was so cool to hear.

Here are some photos of my bike, the one outside that is color is from before, with the current project 2, then the others are all with the new TET fork.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaysonlorenzen/sets/72157624937506351/


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Just to chime in on TET Cycles- I had Tom make me a custom frame several years back- my req's were simple, 16" chainstays with clearance for a big tire; reinforced disc mount. He designed and fabbed the disc mount himself, sending me geometry drawings of the frame as well, and in six weeks I had the frame I wanted. He charged me literally half of what other custom builders were demanding. Great guy, and great working with him.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

That came out great---really nice looking bike and I am glad you were able to rehab it into something you can continue to enjoy.

I really like both of my bikes that Tom built (a Fisher and a Brave). He'd definitely be a good go-to for something custom down the line.


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## c2w (Jul 27, 2009)

@[email protected], thanks for taking the time to share your experience. Your Kona Hot looks great with that fork.

Talking to Tom, he seems like friendly, knowledgeable guy, but I hoped to see what some of his forks look like before ordering.

I will be ordering one right away. I don't mind waiting a bit for a quality custom fork at the price Tom is asking.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

@y-nate-y, thanks I know it is not exactly restored, but I only ever had the frame really and so it has always kind of been a bit of this and that, but it is all solid stuff, with as many hand made components as I could get (some pre QBP Salsa, some Paul's, Thomson, Jones), and it rides great. I agree and have liked all the older bikes that I have seen that Tom built and also would go to him for a custom in the future if I could do so. 

@c2w thanks and as I was just saying it is not original exactly like yours is but I am diggin it. BTW, I had only seen your reply via email before and had not seen the photo till now. AWESOME!!! That is so clean and original looking. Love it.

@uphill, I feel the same as you. The level of service we can get from Tom is amazing. His quality is up with the best I have seen and the turn around way better than anything else I looked at.Oh, and pricing too. The fork I got was over a hundred less than the best price I had found before going to TET. 

Thanks again all for the help and comments through this thread.


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## c2w (Jul 27, 2009)

@ [email protected] Thanks for your PM. Apparently, I can't send PMs until I have made 10 postings. I am glad to hear that your TET fork is working out so well.

I wound up ordering two forks; one with eyelets and one without. The forks are a good fit for my 1994 Kona Explosif. They seem fairly stiff, but have a decent amount of compliance. I like the flat black paint and straight tapered legs. The paint does seem a bit fragile, as there were a number of spots on the dropouts and fork legs that had worn through to bare metal by the time I received them. At least flat black is relatively easy to touch up. Tom recommended Kylon flat black for touch up. They both came in a touch over 1000g uncut with 278mm steerer.

Specs: ATC Length: 412mm, Rake: 39mm, Material: True Temper #1125FB unicrown fork blades tapering to 20mm, WT: 1.2mm/.8mm. 

It wound up taking two months to arrive on my doorstep, which is quite a bit longer than he had estimated. A month after ordering he wrote to say that he would be able to begin working on the forks. He had been very busy with a recumbent tandem trike with a 13' sail attachment. I know that is pretty tough to visualize. Luckily, he sent me a photo of the trike. It is quite something. I can imagine a project like that might take a bit longer than anticipated considering the complexity.

The only problem is that I can't make up my mind whether my Kona should be a rigid mountain bike or commuter...

Happy trails.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

c2w, thanks for the update. The TET you got looks great, and perfect on the bike. I too like the flat black. My paint is not shiny on the bike, and I did not want the fork to look newer than the bike. Also the original kona forks came in flat colors, sort of. Sorry to hear that yours took longer but I think it was worth it. To be able to have the guy that made our frames (in the 90s), make us a new fork is just so amazing to me, and at such fantastic prices.


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## LARRYJO (Aug 7, 2007)

Not sure if you have found a fork or not but i do have 2 early P2's that will have a longer steerer then what you have.
Send me a PM if interested.
BTW, I have owned 4 TET hots and this is my latest.


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## mrjustin007 (Jul 22, 2008)

Here is mine - I searched for a fork for a few months and found one that was non-suspension corrected, but it was disc only, So I built mine in a neo-retro motif. The frame was rough and was missing the cable stops, so I had them replaced and had the frame & fork powercoated. Now I just need decals . . .


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2010)

mrjustin007, Larryjo, diggin the photos. Larryjo that is some awesome retro colors you got there, love it. So cool that so many people have rescued or just kept their old Konas. I hope more post their photos here.


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