# What Downhill frames come in size XL?



## ripplemuncher (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm researching DH frames that come in size XL. I have found a few, but am probably missing some. Basic criteria is a top tube greater than 24". I would consider freeride or even beefy AM frames, but typically these bikes have full length seat tubes in XL sizing that can be 22" plus! Obviously a guy will not be able to lower the seat sufficiently for DH action so seat tube length should be 19" or less. Curiously a med (17") freeride bike has the same seat tube as a medium (17") DH bike. So average height riders have more than double the options. Travel should be at least 6" and head tube angle should be at least 67 degrees or slacker. The frame should be about 2005 or newer. Does not have to still be in production, but out of production ones will be hard to find.

What I have so far:

-Turner DHR XL (not longer than a typical size large)
-Giant Glory XL (not longer than a typical size large)
-Evil Revolt XL (not longer than a typical size large)
-Canfield Jedi 2010 XL (the only bike I have found that is longer in reach/front center than other L & XL sizes)

Please add to the list if you know one - thanks!

Added:

-Santa Cruz V10 (L)
-Yeti 303 (L)
-Rotec RL9 (L second longest bike I have found)
-Nicolai (custom sizing...)
-Superco Silencer (no specs available yet, but they are rumored to be offering a tall boy size in 2010)


NOTE: I have added some clarification to this list. I'm finding that size XL's are not any longer than size L. Manufacturers that offer S/M/L build their L the same size as an XL built by manufacturers that offer S/M/L/XL. The XL bikes are only the result of offering smaller size increments for short and average size people. They are not offering anything in addition for tall riders. The only exception I have found so far is the Jedi. The wheelbase is about the same as all the others (46.5) but the chainstays are 1" shorter, making for a front center that is 1" longer. A longer front center (or reach) is what taller riders need so as not to be cramped on the bike.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

longest bikes I can think of off the top of my head:

Glory DH
Intense M6
Santa Cruz V10
I hear the Yeti's are bigger as well.

a lot of times with DH bikes you can't go off the TT measurement alone. go ride it and get a feel. DH bikes often have whacked out seat tube angles that can throw off the TT measurement

personally, I ride a DH'ed out Giant Reign X (I believe its a 24.5" TT), and it fits me quite well (at 6'6" and a 33" inseam, so all torso). with the boxxer on it I've got a 65.5-66* HA and a 13.75" BB, 6.7" travel.


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## ripplemuncher (Dec 6, 2004)

Agreed, top tube dimensions are vague at best on DH bikes. I prefer the newer format for spec.ing length that Turner calls "reach" and Canfield calls "standing size". Now if everyone would agree on terminology and begin using it. For now, I look at wheelbase and chainstay specs to help interpret what is really going on with the TT dimension, but of course that varies with fork spec.

I believe the M6 only comes in large. I have tried one and it was too small.
The V10 only comes in large, but the specs put it pretty big for a large so I will ad it to the list! Same goes for yeti.

I'd really like to see a wheelbase in the 47-48 inch range. I know that is longer than what most folks consider acceptable, but it works well for me and the terrain I ride. Bur for tall guys looking for typical geometry in a larger size, this list should be helpful.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm 6'2" and ride a large Rocky Flatline. My buddy Colby is 6'7" and thinks it's a good fit. (I let him demo it for a weekend...) I can take some measurements if your curious. 

The industry is starting to use the terms "Reach and Stack." Pretty soon I think this will be the common terminology.


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## Paranoid_Android (Oct 11, 2006)

Rotec RL9


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## Captain Snakebite (Aug 17, 2004)

If you can still find one, Turner Highline, im 6'3" and the TT is 25" Almost a bit big, but i like how it feels.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

I checked out the Morewood Mini-DH bike they have (the linkage version) I don't remember the name at Interbike. It was a medium and I had plenty of room on it at 6'1. A large probably would have been too big for me. VERY cool bike.


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## tombigmac (Jul 18, 2009)

Is anything longer than a large Glory DH without going custom though? 25.3" TT!


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## Paranoid_Android (Oct 11, 2006)

tombigmac said:


> Is anything longer than a large Glory DH without going custom though? 25.3" TT!


They aren't actually. They measure them weird; like from the front of the head tube to the back of the seat tube, instead of centre to centre. They're a good 1.5" shorter. I looked into one for my last bike and they aren't big at all.


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## derekr (Mar 21, 2008)

All Nicolai frames come in XL; or you could go custom and get any size you want, http://www.nicolai.net/products/e-frames.html

Even if it doesnt list the XL dimmensions they are available.


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## ripplemuncher (Dec 6, 2004)

Paranoid_Android said:


> They aren't actually. They measure them weird; like from the front of the head tube to the back of the seat tube, instead of centre to centre. They're a good 1.5" shorter. I looked into one for my last bike and they aren't big at all.


Agreed. Check the wheelbase and chainstay dimensions and you will see they are close to most other bikes with around a 24" top tube.



derekr said:


> All Nicolai frames come in XL; or you could go custom and get any size you want, http://www.nicolai.net/products/e-frames.html
> 
> Even if it doesnt list the XL dimmensions they are available.


True. Added to the list. Although, that is a tough one due to the unfavorable currency exchange rate, potential communication barrier, and reports of Germans not having much interest in 'customer service'. Still, I'm a huge fan of Nicolai and his constant pressing forward with ideas.



Captain Snakebite said:


> If you can still find one, Turner Highline, im 6'3" and the TT is 25" Almost a bit big, but i like how it feels.


This would be great candidate, but the 20" seat tube and 6" head tube is just too tall.


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## Paranoid_Android (Oct 11, 2006)

The Ventana El Cuervo has a HTT length of 24.9" and they also do custom builds for a little extra. 

P.S I ride a large Rotec RL9, I'm 6'7" and it's perfect for me. I wouldn't want it shorter or longer, and I tend to prefer long bikes.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

Maybe Canfield can make you a custom frame???


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## MaxBS (Mar 30, 2008)

If you have the money to spend then definetly go for a custom Nicolai. You can build it to your specs completely, but yeah expensive!!


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## snojcb (Sep 28, 2007)

I spoke with David Turner today about the possibility of getting a XXL DHR. His reponse is below:

=========================
From: DT [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: XXL DHR

Hey JC

If you order 20 I will build them. Deposits required.

Thanks for the interest.

David Turner
=========================

So the only way we'd see a true DH bike for tall riders is if we join together and make a bulk order.

J. C.


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## pmaddy (Feb 27, 2006)

Large Vp-Free has a 24 inch top tube and I believe in 2006 they had an XL as well.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Khemical said:


> Maybe Canfield can make you a custom frame???


I don't think they do custom bikes since they have their bikes built in Asia (not that there is anything wrong with that), they aren't really a builder.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I'll chime in on this old thread. There's only one DH frame that I came across recently that might actually work well for a 6'2 + rider that doesn't favor BMX style fittings. Canfield Forumla 1 Jedi , check out the geo. chart :

http://www.canfieldbrothers.com/products/formula-1-jedi

Make sure you click on XL geometry. The measurment vertical of the BB intersected by the HT line of 18" is one of the best ways to determine a bikes size for a taller rider. TT lengths can mean next to nothing due to seat tube placement & angles.


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## snojcb (Sep 28, 2007)

*Reach and Stack*

Yea, that's actually the off-the-shelf frame I'm leaning toward right now. I'm riding a Large 2007 V-10 now. It's just too small for me. When I'm in "attack" position, my hands are very close to my knees. It's almost like a tricycle. I'm 6'5", by the way.

I broke out the crosshair laser level tonight and measured the stack and reach for my V-10. It's got a 15.5 reach and a 23.7 stack. Upgrading to the Jedi with an 18" reach would be a welcome change!

If I could find someone to make a custom frame even longer (for not much more money), then I'd be all over that instead.

J. C.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

FTW industries is making an XL frame now in the f-bomb model. Ordered mine about a month ago, can't wait! 18inch reach, dialed geo, and adjustable! Ridiculously light and stiff as well. (I'm 6'7" btw)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2oj8Mv_-...AGY/EV_AbLsUwM4/s1600-h/FB-10-4-geo-chart.gif


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I am only 6'2" long legs and am having trouble finding a DH bike.... looking at geo came to the same conclusion as the OP that the few XL bikes I could find where the same size as the large bikes from other companies.

large Intense 951 (friends 09) and large Giant Glory (store '10) where to small, felt like I was to far forward over the front hub even in the attack position.... might be fine coasting down steeps where I could get way back but anywhere I had to pedal my knees would be in/over the bars.

any more recommendations? I am going to look into the Jedi but it doesn't look like that would available for this coming season (and pushing the limit $$$)


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## Rubberneck Goose (Aug 24, 2008)

If you don't mind having slightly less travel, you can build an XL Knolly Delirium for DH/Freeride purposes. 

I'm 6' 5" and ride an XL Delirium that is set up for any kind of riding you can throw at it. If you want to stiffen up the front end you can throw a Fox 40 on and lower it down to 7" so it doesn't tweak your front end geometry. I considered the 40, but ended up putting a Fox Van 180 RC2, which I am completely happy with!

Just something to consider:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks, thats now on the short list.

Your 6'5"... I am 6'2" wish I could ride one just to make sure.

also seems like there may be a long wait for a frame (like all the high end smaller companies)



Rubberneck Goose said:


> If you don't mind having slightly less travel, you can build an XL Knolly Delirium for DH/Freeride purposes.
> 
> I'm 6' 5" and ride an XL Delirium that is set up for any kind of riding you can throw at it. If you want to stiffen up the front end you can throw a Fox 40 on and lower it down to 7" so it doesn't tweak your front end geometry. I considered the 40, but ended up putting a Fox Van 180 RC2, which I am completely happy with!
> 
> Just something to consider:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Evo. (Feb 3, 2009)

I know some people dislike like kona, but the new Operator DH has a large frame with TT of 24.5, chainstay 17.3 and a wheelbase of 48.5. For some reason they don't list the seat tube height or reach...


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## legendMKI (Aug 6, 2010)

How about a Banshee Legend Mk II

Top tube is 24,75 and wheelbase is 47,3

I ride a L Legend MKI and i am 6´2" it fits me perfect. 
I dont think there is much changed from the MKI to the MKII in regards to TT lenght. 

Christian


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## Nagaredama (Aug 2, 2004)

Specialized Demo and the Canfield Brother's Jedi are the longest DH frames you're going to find anywhere. The FTW XL is probably slightly longer.

Since the seat tube angles on DH bikes are so slack the top tube measurement is useless.

I'm 6'5" and if a manufacturer doesn't list I use the front center measure to give me an idea how much of the bike is in front of the bottom bracket. Obviously this measurement is effected by different head tube angles. Since the head angle of most DH bikes are in the same range the front center measurement is a good supplement for the reach when that number isn't provided.


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## Evo. (Feb 3, 2009)

Nagaredama said:


> Specialized Demo and the Canfield Brother's Jedi are the longest DH frames you're going to find anywhere. The FTW XL is probably slightly longer.
> 
> Since the seat tube angles on DH bikes are so slack the top tube measurement is useless.
> 
> I'm 6'5" and if a manufacturer doesn't list I use the front center measure to give me an idea how much of the bike is in front of the bottom bracket. Obviously this measurement is effected by different head tube angles. Since the head angle of most DH bikes are in the same range the front center measurement is a good supplement for the reach when that number isn't provided.


So, would a frame with a front to center of 31.3 be considered long for a large frame?


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

That is actually my first choice if I can find one to try, I have a Marz 888 already so I could go with the Operator FR for $2600... much better price for a park bike for me.

I think I need to hit a bunch of stores and sit on some bikes, maybe I am confusing too low bars with too short cockpit? I borrowed a couple DH bikes for a run but my only real big bike riding experience was on my Gemini Marz 66 fork (high BB and not slack by todays DH standers)

If i have some local buff trails that I could use a big bike on I would be all over the Knolly DT... I think it would be a blast on both but since I have a trail bike I want a bike just for the lift parks it may be a bit much (and a really long wait) ....

Great thread, will help me locate some possibilities



Evo. said:


> I know some people dislike like kona, but the new Operator DH has a large frame with TT of 24.5, chainstay 17.3 and a wheelbase of 48.5. For some reason they don't list the seat tube height or reach...


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks, I had not looked at Banshee.

The Demo would be an option and think I will be able to track one down for fit



Nagaredama said:


> Specialized Demo and the Canfield Brother's Jedi are the longest DH frames you're going to find anywhere. The FTW XL is probably slightly longer.
> 
> Since the seat tube angles on DH bikes are so slack the top tube measurement is useless.
> 
> I'm 6'5" and if a manufacturer doesn't list I use the front center measure to give me an idea how much of the bike is in front of the bottom bracket. Obviously this measurement is effected by different head tube angles. Since the head angle of most DH bikes are in the same range the front center measurement is a good supplement for the reach when that number isn't provided.


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## Evo. (Feb 3, 2009)

Ray Lee said:


> That is actually my first choice if I can find one to try, I have a Marz 888 already so I could go with the Operator FR for $2600... much better price for a park bike for me.
> 
> I think I need to hit a bunch of stores and sit on some bikes, maybe I am confusing too low bars with too short cockpit? I borrowed a couple DH bikes for a run but my only real big bike riding experience was on my Gemini Marz 66 fork (high BB and not slack by todays DH standers)
> 
> ...


Good luck finding a shop that stocks DH/FR bikes around us (Pittsburgh).

Although, you might be in luck.

I am going up to Trek of Pittsburgh tonight to order a Operator FR in large (if the price is right). I am upgrading to a 2011 RC2 DH Totem, 2011 SRAM X.9 derailleur / shifter. With a single crown fork, I feel like I have more options with stem length. The Operator FR has the same frame as the DH.

I know it will take some time to come in, but you are more then welcome to sit on it and ride it around if you want.

Let me know

BTW, I am 6'3.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

That would be perfect, I do not live in Pittsburgh anymore but all summer I travel for work (and will be in Pittsburgh several times) I now live in NJ... I miss Pittsburgh (7 Springs and Dr. J) but at least I am a few hours from Diablo now)

It would be great to hear your feelings on the bike... your tall and ride the same spots I do/did :thumbsup:

I am also more attracted to the FR model, I had no problem with the 180mm 66 on my Gemini and I have the 888 if I want to try it.



Evo. said:


> Good luck finding a shop that stocks DH/FR bikes around us (Pittsburgh).
> 
> Although, you might be in luck.
> 
> ...


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## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

legendMKI said:


> How about a Banshee Legend Mk II
> 
> Top tube is 24,75 and wheelbase is 47,3
> 
> ...


I'm 6'4" with a long torso and the L Legend Mk2 fits me perfectly with a Burgtec 60mm direct mount stem. They actually slightly lengthened the Mk 2 over the Mk1.
The new Carbon V-10's have a 25.2" TT as well, I guess that once they went carbon they couldn't simply do custom frames for Peaty so they actually had to go production in a frame size that fits him.


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## cSquared (Jun 8, 2006)

We make the ONE in a XL-

8" travel- 10lbs with shock/coil.
DH geo-


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## chugachjed (May 20, 2010)

My 08 SX Trail is an XL. I'm 6'2" and it's big enough that I can ~comfortably ride AM on it. Seems like the Spec bikes are long.


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## bug-rex (Jun 10, 2009)

Trek Session 88 comes in an XL too.


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## codename47 (Oct 20, 2008)

I ride XL Sx Trail 08 and it's monster at wheelbase (124cm=48.8" real measurement). I see that Jedi is "only" 46.7"


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon comes in a XL.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

dhtahoe said:


> Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon comes in a XL.


or just buy the magical 2010 V10 in large that fits riders up to 6'6" :madman:

2010 aluminum large for riders 5'10-6'6
reach 16.5
http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/v10/#sizing.php

2011 carbon large for riders 5'10-6'3
Reach 16.7 in 10" mode
http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/v10_carbon/#sizing.php


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

dhtahoe said:


> Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon comes in a XL.


HA ha. I hoped on one of those this weekend. It's just a tiny bit bigger than a medium FTW fbomb.


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## burgundy snake (Dec 12, 2007)

Be wary of TT measurments. TT for a DH bike is even more misleading than ETT(VTT) lengths. Reach is the most accurate for comparison and sizing. Case and point, you can take the same bike, and effectively and increase the ETT(VTT) by simply putting thowing on a longer fork to rake it out, and simutaneously reduce the Reach, while the TT will remain constant. Similarly, a bike with a more slack ST Angle will have a longer ETT than a bike with a more upright STA and identical Reach.

The Jedi is the longest bike, followed by the Demo and V10. I'm 195.6cm (6'5") and personally would not want to ride a DH bike with less than a 450mm reach. Hypothetically If Peat is 6'3" and rides a 434, if you're 6'4" or taller WHY would you want to ride a shorter ETT for DH? DJ sure, but that is a different thread. 

It really boils down to buy what is available even if you feel like a bear on a tricycle, get 20 guys with $ who will through down for an XXL (or custom) to make it worth the nonrecurring cost of the same manufacturer, get sponsored, or buy/build custom if you have the means. :madman: 

Reach of common DH bikes

-Jedi- .... Demo .... V10c(8.5) ... DHR ..... Legend MK II
18.0 ...... 17.60 ..... 17.1 .......... 16.7 ..... 16.3
457.2 .... 447.0 ..... 434.3 ......... 424.2 ... 415


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