# 95 trek Y-22



## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

I plan on building this bike with newer components and would like to add disk brakes to the rear triangle. The research that I've done tells me that the triangle needs to be reinforced after adding the mounts. My question is: What would be my best approach to getting this done? (mock-up, materials, welding, etc) I do have some experience brazing, but dont think this is the best approach, as I think it would weaken the triangle.
All thoughts are welcome.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

96gfhkek said:


> All thoughts are welcome.


Remember you said that....

You'd likely ruin the arm, unless you paid a bunch of money, in which case, it's money ill spent, as modern FS bikes will be vastly superior, even entry level ones.

I'd not bother. Just run V's if you must redo the bike, but I think they often work best in this format,


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL! that's pretty cool. The build is for my girlfriend. She loves the color of the bike and the fact that its light is a plus. I was able to pick up the frame in almost immaculate condition.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Remember you said that....
> I'd not bother.


What he said. 
Modernizing an old full-suspension bike just doesn't make sense. If you want a modern full-suspension bike, you really need to start with a modern full-suspension frame.

If you really like that bike, you could maybe put a new short-travel fork on it and a disc up front (and just use a V-brake in back).


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm aware of all the inherent flaws of this frame, (pedaling efficiency, tail wag, etc) I figure it would be a great starting bike for my gf. I'm already starting my own FS build, just want to get her involved aswell.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Here are a few pics:
I'm actually really excited for this build!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Not a great bike. You really shouldn't.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Why? Its not like she's going to do jumps with the thing.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Then the extra work and money and possible problems of adding rear disc brakes doesn't make much sense, does it?


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

it does get extra points in my book just for being Red .


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Its a project bike to get my gf involved. The process of putting it together alone is worth it. Plus it will function perfectly for what its intended to be used for.

I plan to add a lockout fork and shock so that the pedal bob is minimal.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Buy this to add a rear disk brake.
http://www.woodmancomponents.com/catalog/categorie.php?cat=dis&lang=en


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

on a purely aesthetic level I love the frame, it brings out the magpie in me, I think you should focus on building light rather than modern, you have a fairly light frame and fork, build it up as a fully suspended single speed with some road cranks and nice light cantilevers - don't bother with a lockout, just run the shock pressure higher than you normally would - maybe 5% sag maximum - that will take some of the squishyness out of the rear end but still provide a little shock absorbtion whilst in the saddle.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Although if you do want a lightweight modern fork that would look really nice on that frame. 
This 80mm R7 Elite on clearance from Jensons is white with a silver crown and just a touch of red on it. A perfect match at a great price.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Always good to get someone into the sport. If you have any non-disc wheels and v-brakes around, I'd seriously stick with that. If not, I guess you're buying all those parts anyway, so adding a disc adapter isn't going to make too much of a price difference (though the wheels and brakes will cost a fair amount more). 

Single speed is probably not the way to get someone into the sport unless it's really flat where you live...


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

screw the aluminium rear triangle, braze her a sweet new cromo one and paint to match!!

after welding alum. you should b heat-treating it... lots of extra expense and wasted time.

just take all measurements off the old swinger, make one WITH disc dropouts, and the natural "liquid" curves of brazing will complement the front carbon monocoque :thumbsup: 
(instead of detracting from it as i feel the alloy swingarm does)

plus it plays to your strengths so why not?


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

That looks great, I too would just go with V-brakes, see if she likes riding and modify at a later date...be sure to post pics


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## JoelovesDirt (Apr 28, 2008)

byknuts said:


> screw the aluminium rear triangle, braze her a sweet new cromo one and paint to match!!
> 
> after welding alum. you should b heat-treating it... lots of extra expense and wasted time.
> 
> ...


+1 you're obviously on a mission to polish that turd. Spare no expense:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

banks said:


> Buy this to add a rear disk brake.
> http://www.woodmancomponents.com/catalog/categorie.php?cat=dis&lang=en


Great idea! Didn't even know that they made adapters for disk brakes. I did a quick search for brake adapters and decided to go with an a2z adapter as it doesn't use the bar connected to the lever mount.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

mechagouki said:


> on a purely aesthetic level I love the frame, it brings out the magpie in me, I think you should focus on building light rather than modern, you have a fairly light frame and fork, build it up as a fully suspended single speed with some road cranks and nice light cantilevers - don't bother with a lockout, just run the shock pressure higher than you normally would - maybe 5% sag maximum - that will take some of the squishyness out of the rear end but still provide a little shock absorbtion whilst in the saddle.


I'll definitely try adding more air to stiffen up the frame. Thanks for the tip


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

da'HOOV said:


> That looks great, I too would just go with V-brakes, see if she likes riding and modify at a later date...be sure to post pics


Being that I'm putting togerther a bike with all new parts for myself,and that its goning to take a while befor its completed. I want her to share that experiance aswell. We could always upgrade the frame even after the bike is put together.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

hey!! my option was the only one that was seconded!! (besides the "leave it the hell alone")
sweet...  

I'm with m-gouki, I liked these frames purely in a "oo'er guv'na" kinda way, if you've decided to pimp the hell out of it I still vote for FULLBORE crazy stuff... custom cromo rear triangle etc.

this thread should've had a poll.


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## archiver (Nov 2, 2009)

Isnt it funny how when people dont have an answer they insult your bike? 

The Y22 is probably one of best futuristic looking bikes ever made...especially in the natural carbon. And it performs quite well on just about anything. I suspect many of the naysayers are just not experienced with it and are just used to what they DO ride. Maybe their rides ARE better.....maybe not. 
I upgraded the front to a 203mm disc and its great for downhill at our local ski area.Do you need rear disc? Probably not, but the V brakes really %^^&* in comparison. I could see a problem with an inexperienced rider though with too much front brake! :madman: 
The rear brake is a bit tricky due to the frame offset and I haven't fully tackled that problem yet. It doesnt seem as if any adaptor like the woodman mentioned above, the A2zhttp://www.a2zcomponents.com/02products_04adapter_05.html,or Brake Therapy http://2btherapy.com/index.php/bikes/brake-therapy-conversion-kitwould work due to the offset...at least I havent asked them!
There are other threads around where brackets are welded and such but I'm not sure who could do this competently and at what price. Odds are I'll stick with the V brake in rear unlessone of those adaptors work!


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm pretty sure a Brake Therapy kit would work, they are custom made for whichever frame/hub they are to be used with aren't they?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

archiver said:


> Isnt it funny how when people dont have an answer they insult your bike?


You joined primarily to respond to this and tell us we shouldn't have an opinion beyond fawning love? :skep:

I reread this, (to make sure I wasn't an a$$ to start out with) most didn't come even close to insulting the OP, just offered opinions, which is what he asked for. He got advice and input directly related to his technical questions too. BTW? The OP took it all in stride too, nice work.

Sounds like he got pretty hooked up really.

What are you, his mom?

If so, look out, he's dating a biker chick:thumbsup:

To the OP, I'd still not bother, but I'm a snob who likes my suspension to work all the time, and not change depending on where I am positioned on the bike. Those bikes were loved by some, enough that several other companies made high pivot SP bikes, but you'll note none do now. That's cause the design did weird stuff. One can adapt to anything it's true, but do you really want to spend a bunch of cash, doing irreversible work to a bike in such pristine condition, only to have it not work as well as it might? Thus preventing your GF from really getting into it? And will the fact that she has V's instead of discs, change any of that? Most of us here, deal with bikes that use cantis, and we stop any time we like. V's are a huge upgrade. Discs, while I love them, are the last thing I'd be permanently modifying an old frame to get. My wife who normally rides a FS bike with discs, had her first ride on an older HT I rebuilt for her, with V's. Not one complaint about lack of power, or control, all day, she did say they looked funny, but that was it  Save the cash, use old parts, get her out on it. When she decides she loves riding, buy her a classic old school Stumpy, and you'll get tons of input on it's restoration here. Or buy her a modern rig, that has useable travel, and watch her disappear down the trail in front of you.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> You joined primarily to respond to this and tell us we shouldn't have an opinion beyond fawning love? :skep:
> 
> I reread this, (to make sure I wasn't an a$$ to start out with) most didn't come even close to insulting the OP, just offered opinions, which is what he asked for. He got advice and input directly related to his technical questions too. BTW? The OP took it all in stride too, nice work.
> 
> ...


what Mendon said..
if i were on the OP's shoes i would buy the GF a surly 1x1, a pink 1x1, and build it w/ a pair of king wheels.
unless he wants the girl asking him how to set up her ride, every week. maybe that's the cool part of the project so i will stfu.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

I can take some criticism, so its all good. My mind is set on fixing up this bike with good parts. not the best, but good enough to swap the frame out in the future. Got a pace rc 39 for the fork. Enjoy the build and feel free to say whatever that doesn't make the mods mad.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

I should get the adapter by the end of the week and will post how it works. From what I've read it seems that as long as the dropout is smooth, it will work.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Got a couple more pics to share. Turns out that the adapter doesn't work so I'm going to have to find a way to have a bracket welded on there. I did a test fit and found out that there is a nice straight line parallel to the rotor that would work perfectly.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Just put vee's on it .


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Seriously what fun would that be?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)




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## JoelovesDirt (Apr 28, 2008)

Are you f-ing kidding? You're putting those parts on that POS frame? :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman:


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

He, he...The wheels are going on my frame. Just taking mesurments. Although?!


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

BTW- I dont think it's a POS. To help with the pedal bob I plan to get a dt swiss remote lock out shock.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

You wouldn't happen to have a cousin named Kyle, would you?


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hey man, i'm glad you're working on your project! It isn't what I would build, and frankly, it looks terrible to me, but I hope it makes you happy!


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

guys just let him build the freakin bike, his girlfriend will tell him that the bike isnt very awesome and then he will realize that he made a mistake, unless it turns out to be cool which in that case good find


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

nuck_chorris said:


> guys just let him build the freakin bike, his girlfriend will tell him that the bike isnt very awesome and then he will realize that he made a mistake, unless it turns out to be cool which in that case good find


I wouldn't build something i wouldn't ride.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

96gfhkek said:


> BTW- I dont think it's a POS. To help with the pedal bob I plan to get a dt swiss remote lock out shock.


For the price of the DT shock and remote you could buy her a decent new complete bike.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

shiggy said:


> For the price of the DT shock and remote you could buy her a decent new complete bike.


I don't get... Why is everyone so hell bent on knocking down this build?


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

96gfhkek said:


> BTW- I dont think it's a POS. To help with the pedal bob I plan to get a dt swiss remote lock out shock.


A lot of people who have own or ridden one with properly set up suspension or upgraded suspensions don't think its a POS. I have a disc adapter installed on my 98 Y-11 that I pick up from ebay for around $50 and its similar from disc therapy but its not mounted on the hub, instead its anchor onto the swingarm.

The Y bikes have its place in mountain bike history whether you like its URT suspension design or not. In fact the URT was adopted by most major bike producer from mid to late 90's but somehow the Y bikes got the most bad rap, perhaps its because its the most successfull in terms of sales. Its the first mass produce bike that bring carbon fiber and full suspension to the general market and be accepted and good enough for racers, instead of a novelty feature from boutique brands. Give it a few more years and people will recognized its significance in MTB history. Is it a classic? it should be, Is it collectible? not really in terms of volumn, Should you built up your frame?, you betcha! I have no problems keeping up with my pals on DW-Link, Horst Link, I-Drive and many other designs.

I have no reservation on upgrading on the fork or rear shock or any components as you can just switch over to any 4" travel XC bike when your done. Just remember don't installed a fork that is more then 100mm/4" of travel on the Y bike as it was originally design with 70-80mm forks. The rear shock size is 6.5" x 1.5" and easily obtain from all major shock makers.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

Below is a comment about Y bikes from a engineer who was involve with its design back in early 90's. It really put the Y bike in its contex and FS design evolution, enjoy.

"Such strong opinions, about a bike few have ridden, and even fewer have ridden properly (though no fault of your own).

By now most people know there were several rear ends intended to finish the Y bike, none of which made it to production. The MTB market died down quickly, and management could no longer see investing what it required to complete the bike. All that remain are a few prototypes, and the single-pivot production designs.

Nice to hear that those of you who've actually spent some time on them have nice things to say. Still, the Y was a fairly compromised production bike, and while every bike has setbacks and shortcomings, there are some fairly major ones at the bottom of most of the negative perceptions of this bike, then and now.

A few of them:

1. We designed the Y around a Risse shock. Marketing pulled a last minute switch to the Fox unit based on color. These shocks were longer, and screwed the geometry up. Also didn't have the same stroke, compression & damping properties. Put a Risse on your Y to feel it ride as intended...

2. ...in 1993. But only if you want the ride qualities we wanted in 1993. We also wanted front suspension that rode like it was locked out all the time, and if it moved, you didn't know it. The bike was designed around the Mag 21 (& not Treks own forks, since the design didn't originate there), but by the time it hit the market, it shipped with RS's new Judy, for a very mismatched feel front to back. Run it with a mag 21 to feel the ride as intended. ...in 1993.

3. To compare rides, ride the alternatives. ...from that same period. Spend some time on a Mac Strut AMP bike, or a high pivot Iron Horse or Boulder, etc... then get on the Risse/RSmg21 Y and compare. Only then will you get an idea for why the designer and the engineering team bothered to put all that time and effort into the project. It was a considerable step [in the direction XC FS was going at the time] further than anyone else had gone [at that time].

4. The Y was designed to be a FS XC race bike. It was not supposed to be plush and fully active, it was not supposed to be locked out by an over-tensioned chain with every pedal stroke. It was supposed to be more efficient than low pivots, more active than high pivots, and lighter (lets not forget, it was the early 90's) then either, but most importantly, by removing the major mechanical impact of pivot placement of the former systems, we sought to move as much of the feel and efficiency of the bike from the frame to the shock itself. This is acheived to lesser effect in the single pivot rear end, as there are still a couple mechanical hurdles left, but too, shocks back then were pretty crude, so the frames only rode as well as their clunky dampers. They had none of the stable platform trickery we have today that keep our favorite modern FS bikes from riding like pigs either. Try a new Fox with ProPedal on your Y for an interesting ride, if you're going to compare it with modern suspension goals, and having climbed off modern suspension bikes.

...then you'll just hate the geometry.

It's a bike that was rarely built right, and thus never reviewed right, now or then. Anyway, the time for single pivot urt's thankfully passed quickly.

As for being appropriate here, it's doubtful.

Carbon fiber
Mass Produced
Full Suspension
Looks weird

aren't going to win you many fans among retrogrouches. Post pictures of steel diamond frames. They never get tired of seeing those."


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

Few people in the US knows that the Y bike concept live on in Europe a few more years. The Y bikes didn't died out when Trek discontinued them at 2000.

Two European firms namely Fischer (not to be confused with Gary Fisher) and Bergwerk of Germany take the Y bike concept of Trek and develop it further from 2001-2003 from 4" travel XC version to 6" monster downhill bike called the Bergwerk Moonraker. They all switch over to single pivot design on the rear suspension instead of URT's but keep faithfull to the Y shape that won design awards throughout the world.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery from K-Mart bikes to 6" DH Carbon dream bikes and Y bikes impact on the market place is undeniable.

Fischer 4" XC Bike:





Bergwerk Moonraker's 2 Versions


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

Back to your questions, Converting Y bikes to Disc have been done many ways from A2Z adapters, custome welding to Disc Therapy type adapter but all involves modifying the adapter too. You have to cut some materials from the outer chrome color plate of the A2Z to clear the seat stays of the URT. The later 98-2000 URT's have built in 22mm Hayes disc mount which is no longer a standard. Yours is an early URT so dapters or welding is the only way to go. Some put later URT's onto early front frames to use the 22mm Hayes disc mounts. See pics.

I suggest you joine the Yahoo Y bike group:

https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/trekybikes/

You'll find way more helpful comments there then you'll find in here besides throwing you frame away 

Check out this site on more Y bike Info: https://cool386.tripod.com/trek/trek.htm


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

fjyang-Great info and pictures
Thanks!


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## JoelovesDirt (Apr 28, 2008)

fjyang said:


> Few people in the US knows that the Y bike concept live on in Europe a few more years. The Y bikes didn't died out when Trek discontinued them at 2000.
> 
> Two European firms namely Fischer (not to be confused with Gary Fisher) and Bergwerk of Germany take the Y bike concept of Trek and develop it further from 2001-2003 from 4" travel XC version to 6" monster downhill bike called the Bergwerk Moonraker. They all switch over to single pivot design on the rear suspension instead of URT's but keep faithfull to the Y shape that won design awards throughout the world.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point. The Y frame design is not at problem. It's where the bottom bracket resides.


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

Dude are you crazy? Sell your frame and parts and buy this instead.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/1455549064.html
Hawaiian Style rocks!!!!!!!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

fjyang said:


> Marketing pulled a last minute switch to the Fox unit based on color.


You know, I understand how marketing sometimes gets involved with things they shouldn't. If they said, "This bike is too expensive, we need some cheaper parts." or something like that, I understand. But to make what should be an engineering decision as a consequence of color, that truly boggles the mind. I have been in enough technical projects to abhor marketing, but never something so mortifying as that.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

Below are what others have done to mount disc on their Y bike URT's some crude, some vary professional so there's no shortage of options & creativity.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

Off topic, how many bike you know that a TV show is based off it? Remember Pacific Blue?


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Very nice! I really like the welded one a few pics down. Got a chance yesterday to check out the Yahoo group and saw some of those(awesome work). I'm gonna try my luck at fabricating a bracket here in the week or two. With a little luck it might turn out ok. I recall reading a post that a later Gray Fisher URT has disk mounts and that it would fit on the frame. Is there any truth to that?


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

Dude they just dropped the price. It's a steal!!!!!!!!
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/1456639015.html


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

fjyang said:


> Off topic, how many bike you know that a TV show is based off it? Remember Pacific Blue?


That's really not gonna help...


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

96gfhkek said:


> Very nice! I really like the welded one a few pics down. Got a chance yesterday to check out the Yahoo group and saw some of those(awesome work). I'm gonna try my luck at fabricating a bracket here in the week or two. With a little luck it might turn out ok. I recall reading a post that a later Gray Fisher URT has disk mounts and that it would fit on the frame. Is there any truth to that?


Gary Fisher's Joshua and Level Betty models are Trek Y bikes brothers using the same URT design's but they are constructed differently. If you look at Trek & Fisher's URT side by side you'll realized the Fisher's URT welds are on a different league then Treks. The welds quality and the way it layers/overlaps each other is amazing from a mass production bike standpoint and rivals custom builders welds I've seen. There are additional bracing at chainstays and details that's different then Trek's URT. They're both interchangeable so that is an additional source for your URT if yours broke and some Y bike enthusiast have liked the Fisher's URT so much that they drafted one onto their Y bikes.

Gary Fisher soldier on with URT bikes a year or 2 longer then Trek and just when Trek discontinued their Y bikes, Fisher updated the Joshua URT with IS Disc tabs that was just becoming the standard around that time. The late model 2000+ Fisher URT bikes are hard to come by and sometimes the price they fetch on ebay is more then Trek's carbon version which boggles me.

Also the late model URT's 98-00 from both Trek & Fisher have interchangeable rear shock plates to accomodate different shock length from 6.5"-7" eye to eye (without upseting geometry) for additional travel as Trek's Y-Glide & Fisher's Level Betty both are tauted "long Travel" (98 standard) w/ 100mm fork and 7" rear shocks. The last version URT from Fisher revert back to a fixed rear shock size of 6.5x1.5 but gained IS disc mounts, see below pics.


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## jeff spicoli (Jan 28, 2008)

fjyang said:


> Gary Fisher's Joshua and Level Betty models are Trek Y bikes brothers using the same URT design's but they are constructed differently. If you look at Trek & Fisher's URT side by side you'll realized the Fisher's URT weld are on a different league then Treks. The welds quality and the way it layers/overlaps each weld is amazing from a mass production bike and rivals custom builders welds that I've seen. There are additional bracing at chainstays and details that's different then Trek's URT. They're both interchangeable so that is an additional source for your URT if yours broke and some Y bike enthusiast have like the Fisher's URT so much that they drafted one onto their Y bikes.
> 
> Gary Fisher soldier on with URT bikes a year or 2 longer then Trek and just when Trek discontinued their Y bikes, Fisher updated the Joshua URT with IS Disc tabe that was just becoming the standard around that time. The late model 2000+ Fisher URT bikes are hard to come by and sometimes the price they fetch on ebay is more then Trek's carbon version which boggles me.
> 
> Also the late model URT's 98-00 from both Trek & Fisher have interchangeable rear shock plates to accomodate different shock length from 6.5"-7" eye to eye (without upseting geometry) for additional travel as Trek's Y-Glide & Fisher's Level Betty both are tauted "long Travel" (98 standard) w/ 100mm fork and 7" rear shocks. The last model URT from Fisher revert back to fix rear shock size of 6.5x1.5 size see pics.


Are you and 96gfhkek retarded? The Trek Y bikes and GF Betty's have the worst suspension designs ever made(along with the Klein Mantra). I should know I owned one of each.Thank god I was able to sell them before everyone figured it out. Are you sure encouraging 96gfhkek is such a good idea? If ignorance is bliss then you guys are????


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

fjyang said:


> Off topic, how many bike you know that a TV show is based off it? Remember Pacific Blue?


whooa, the same bikes that secret service uses to guard the white house!!? dang,


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

jeff spicoli said:


> Are you and 96gfhkek retarded? The Trek Y bikes and GF Betty's have the worst suspension designs ever made(along with the Klein Mantra). I should know I owned one of each.Thank god I was able to sell them before everyone figured it out. Are you sure encouraging 96gfhkek is such a good idea? If ignorance is bliss then you guys are????


Hey, I'm just trying to generate a good info. thread on Y bikes since almost every single one turn into a URT bashing galore S*&T. Its all relative what one think of a particular suspesion design,.

Why would anyone ride hardtails when you got full suspension bikes? Why bother updating any hardtails? its obsolete.

Why would you care to use Canti's when you got Disc brakes?

Why would you spend money to convert your bike into a single speed? Sillyer yet, lets turn it into a 29er single speed while we're at it. Would you drive a car or motorcycle with one speed transmission? Do you look cool with one speed car or motorcycle?

Why people spend top dollar on old components to create a period correct bike when you can upgrade to latest drivetrain for way less money?

The VRC forum is full of "Retarded" (as you put it) stuff/projects but some people just dig this stuff so who are you or I to judge? One mans trash is another one's holy grail. Its all relative.

If you look at what Klein Mantra's goes for on ebay, they go for more retarded price then Y bikes, heck the carbon version goes over $1,000 more then you care to ****.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

This is hilarious... I told her about this thread and now she jokes about building her a pos. The cool thing is she really doesn't care. We've never ridden a FS bike long enough to actually get a feel for it, so its going to be a new experience for the both of us. If the suspension is terrible even after the upgrades, at least we will have another bike to compare it to. We both like the frame so at the very least you can say that its more of a nostalgia build.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Exactly!!!


fjyang said:


> Hey, I'm just trying to generate a good info. thread on Y bikes since almost every single one turn into a URT bashing galore S*&T. Its all relative what one think of a particular suspesion design,.
> 
> Why would anyone ride hardtails when you got suspension bikes? Why bother updating any hardtails? its obsolete.
> 
> ...


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

yo-Nate-y said:


> whooa, the same bikes that secret service uses to guard the white house!!? dang,


Its ment to be a tongue & cheek/humor link on Y bikes  From latest & greatest to POS in less then a decade.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

jeff spicoli said:


> Are you and 96gfhkek retarded?


:nono:

Lets keep it civil please, no need for name calling, particularly when it's referring to one that can't be helped.

I agree, Y bikes by my definition are less than awesome, and spending time and money to mount a disc in back is a waste. But that said, these guys are passionate, and taking bikes that most would toss, and using them, so let's just use our mental ignore function and leave 'em alone with their URT lovefest thread, okay?:thumbsup:


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

While I am not a fan personally I think it is great he is doing this build. Keep it going man!


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

*mumble grumble*
still say a brazed cromo rear triangle woulda been cooler!
*mumble grumble* 
just single speeded mechagouki's old schwinn sweet spot, nothing wrong with that....
*mumble grumble*
why i oughtta get offa my lawn you rotten kids!!!



(just trying to get grumpy enough to fit in) :thumbsup:


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## RIS (Nov 4, 2009)

Maybe we need a "This Old Bike" forum, because there are some old bikes that are not vintage/retro/classic enough to be collectible, so we just ride them instead.

My un-cool old bike experience:

I'm about three years away from my AARP membership. My wife is much younger than I, and was training for her first off-road Triathlon. About five weeks before race day, I decided to try it too. Then I got the flu and was sick in bed for a week. Once I was better, I dragged my bike out of the shed. I ordered tires, grips, brake pads, and a coil spring kit for the fork, because after 14 years, everything rubber had basically rotted off the bike. I lubed the chain and replaced a shift cable to get it shifting again, as well as replacing a couple of failed front wheel bearings.

Then I trained for four weeks. 

About 80 of us showed up on race day, including a bunch of ringers who had recently competed in the XTERRA World Championship. The photographer that took this picture just told me that I was in 7th place. I can't remember if this was before or after I passed the hard-tail rider on the ascent from the ocean. I'd like to have had a better bike to do my first Triathlon on, but there were plenty of racers on $6,000 bikes that finished behind me, and I don't remember any of them telling me that I should throw my bike in the dumpster.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Sounds like a fun event! Glad to hear you came in came in the top ten. I've never joined any event before, but maybe one day. Sure would be a good way to help stay focused on getting back in shape. Nice ride!


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

RIS said:


> I'd like to have had a better bike to do my first Triathlon on, but there were plenty of racers on $6,000 bikes that finished behind me, and I don't remember any of them telling me that I should throw my bike in the dumpster.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

reason you did so well is because the y-frame is aerodynamic!
UCI-banned!! 
who knew you were seceretly breaking out the retro-full-suspension version of EPO?


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## jjbod1 (Mar 26, 2009)

fjyang said:


> Hey, I'm just trying to generate a good info. thread on Y bikes since almost every single one turn into a URT bashing galore S*&T. Its all relative what one think of a particular suspesion design,.
> 
> Why would anyone ride hardtails when you got full suspension bikes? Why bother updating any hardtails? its obsolete.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: Could not of said that better myself.


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## hotdogger (Jul 12, 2009)

I enjoyed the thread, It is nice to see that the y bike can still generate a lot of interest.
I bought my Y22 new in 1995 and have been riding it 2 to 3 times a week ever since. Every part has been replaced except the frame, handlebar, and bar ends. I think Trek went a little too light on the components. In particular the fork, steering stem, and seat post. These parts were replace only after a year or two. I have been through many wheel sets and transmissions due to wear. The rear triangle was replaced under warranty after about 8 years due to a fatigue crack on the chain stay near the bottom bracket. I have a lifetime warranty and may end up using it on the frame if I live that long.
Recently I did what I thing will be the final upgrade for the bike. It has a new Fox fork, Crankset/transmission, and disc brakes/wheel set. The fork and brakes added another pound to the bike but it was worth it. The bike is great fun to ride on tight technical single track.
My style is crosscountry and I have no problem keeping up with the "modern" FS mountain bikes.
Check out the pics for my solution to the rear brake mount. I was lucky to get a swingarm replacement with a 22mm Haynes mount and made my own adapter.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Your bike looks sharp and that's really clever for the bracket! I've had no luck making a bracket for mine and am looking for a urt with disk mounts. I have been gathering more parts for the bike and just need a few more. I will post more pics when i get the chance.


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## Caffeine Powered (Mar 31, 2005)

I can't imagine it ending well for you and your GF once she finds out that you like dumping money down holes.

You might as well have a new rear triangle made to 29er spec and get a 29er fork.

Once she starts actually riding it, make damn sure the shock is adjusted properly and doesn't bottom out. Carbon Y frames break very quickly at the shock mount when the shock isn't working properly. A local who does endurance racing has had a Y since they came out. Trek warrantied the frame 3 times when they all broke at the shock mount. When they handed him the last replacement frame 3 years ago they told him there wouldn't be a next time. There were no more Y frames. He still rides and races it, but he admits the technology has been left at the trail side the season after he bought it. There are superior FS designs out there.

Honestly, leave it alone and just get her out on the trails. It's not doing her any good sitting there while you dork around getting a disc mount made.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

You should mount a kick stand on it.


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## gomer hardtale (Jul 2, 2008)

fjyang, you seem to be a fountain of info regarding Y bikes.
However, Pacific Blue was not "based "on the Y bike. Originally , SCHWINN homegrowns were featured(when it was good).
The Y bike dragged it down!

hahaha


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> You should mount a kick stand on it.


Not just any kickstand, a Cunningham.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

It's like your trying to invest in breast implants and longer legs on Rosie O'Donnel.

Lot's of work, you may get the desired results, but in the end, and after lot's of time and money...


... it's still gonna be Rosie. :eekster: 



V-brakes. They work.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Caffeine Powered said:


> I can't imagine it ending well for you and your GF once she finds out that you like dumping money down holes.
> 
> You might as well have a new rear triangle made to 29er spec and get a 29er fork.
> 
> ...


It seems to me that all of the shock mount failures are do to racing the bike and beating the sh.. out of it. The frame is practically new and neither of these circumstances will transpire. I will definitely make sure the shock is working properly. Thanks.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

cousineddie said:


> Not just any kickstand, a Cunningham.


Sorry no kickstand...but maybe a downtube mud guard.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

LOL! I kinda can't believe you are trying to put a disc brake on the back of this, never mind spending money on it, but hell whatever floats your boat.

If you want to get your girlfriend into the sport, why not just buy an inexpensive frame (either a hard-tail or suspension that works) and put all the nice parts you are assembling together on that? Putting her on an absolutely terrible suspension design will not exactly encourage her to keep riding. It is not a matter of opinion as to whether or not this suspension works, it is a matter of engineering. You stand up, suspension doesn't work, period. You pedal, the whole bike bobs ridiculously. I sold these bikes from when they first came out to when they were discontinued, and they were just a travesty of design. If you pump up the shock enough not to have terrible bob, it is essentially locked out and all you are doing in burdening your girlfriend with an extra 5 lbs of frame weight. If you want to build a bike for her, start it right.

That all said, this bike has an important place in MTB history. I am in no way advocating throwing it away or leaving it to die. Why not build it up with some period correct parts (you can get a lot of nice XT stuff from the late 90's for pretty cheap on the bay) and keep it for yourself? Do the build, but do it right. Disc brakes on a frame not designed for them are a recipe for disaster, especially on a frame known for breaking. The fisher joshua's that used the same rear end had cracked URT triangles all the time. Seriously PITA to warranty back in the day because they changed/discontinued the bike so quickly.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> LOL! I kinda can't believe you are trying to put a disc brake on the back of this, never mind spending money on it, but hell whatever floats your boat.
> 
> If you want to get your girlfriend into the sport, why not just buy an inexpensive frame (either a hard-tail or suspension that works) and put all the nice parts you are assembling together on that? Putting her on an absolutely terrible suspension design will not exactly encourage her to keep riding. It is not a matter of opinion as to whether or not this suspension works, it is a matter of engineering. You stand up, suspension doesn't work, period. You pedal, the whole bike bobs ridiculously. I sold these bikes from when they first came out to when they were discontinued, and they were just a travesty of design. If you pump up the shock enough not to have terrible bob, it is essentially locked out and all you are doing in burdening your girlfriend with an extra 5 lbs of frame weight. If you want to build a bike for her, start it right.
> 
> That all said, this bike has an important place in MTB history. I am in no way advocating throwing it away or leaving it to die. Why not build it up with some period correct parts (you can get a lot of nice XT stuff from the late 90's for pretty cheap on the bay) and keep it for yourself? Do the build, but do it right. Disc brakes on a frame not designed for them are a recipe for disaster, especially on a frame known for breaking. The fisher joshua's that used the same rear end had cracked URT triangles all the time. Seriously PITA to warranty back in the day because they changed/discontinued the bike so quickly.


Do you think that the ride quality would be much different than a hardtail with the suspension locked out? Sure wouldnt be enough to dissuade a person from getting into the sport.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

96gfhkek said:


> Do you think that the ride quality would be much different than a hardtail with the suspension locked out? Sure wouldnt be enough to dissuade a person from getting into the sport.


If you pump the suspension up enough to negate the horrible design, then yes, it will be similar to a hardtail that is locked out, with a couple exceptions.

1) The geometry on that bike is designed with sag in mind, so pumping up the shock so it doesn't move will not allow the bike to get into its sag. As such, the geometry will me MUCH steeper than a comparable hardtail. The result of geometry that is too steep? A forward weight bias, sketchy handling, and a misplaced COG. It will not handle like a hardtail because a hardtail would have correct geometry and none of these problems.

2) Geometry and handling issues aside, pumping it up enough to negate the rear end might pedal like a hardtail, but a it will pedal like a hardtail with a 5lb weight attached to the frame because that frame weights a hell of a lot more and a nice, cheap, aluminum hardtail. It is also a hell of a lot flexier.

In short, by pumping up the shock like you are planning the bike would compare to a hardtail like this: The y-bike will have terrible and skittish geometry, it will weigh a lot more, and it will flex (laterally) a lot more. It will be nothing like riding a hardtail except for the fact that the rear end won't move on either. As I said before - if you are gonna do it, do it right. Build her a good bike for HER, and then build this up as a fun piece of MTB history for yourself.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

And as to the part about dissuading someone from getting into the sport: A flexy, heavy, sketchy handling bike is EXACTLY the kind of thing that dissuades someone from riding.


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## Caffeine Powered (Mar 31, 2005)

KDXdog said:


> It's like your trying to invest in breast implants and longer legs on Rosie O'Donnel.
> 
> Lot's of work, you may get the desired results, but in the end, and after lot's of time and money...
> 
> ...


I don't want to go there but I must... Nobody rides Rosie for a reason.

If you'd give up on the disc brake mounts your GF would be riding by now. What do you have to say to that? As for stopping power, our road tandem has XTR V-brakes and it has no problems slowing our 300# combined weight down from 50 mph safely and without drama.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> If you pump the suspension up enough to negate the horrible design, then yes, it will be similar to a hardtail that is locked out, with a couple exceptions.
> 
> 1) The geometry on that bike is designed with sag in mind, so pumping up the shock so it doesn't move will not allow the bike to get into its sag. As such, the geometry will me MUCH steeper than a comparable hardtail. The result of geometry that is too steep? A forward weight bias, sketchy handling, and a misplaced COG. It will not handle like a hardtail because a hardtail would have correct geometry and none of these problems.
> 
> ...


That is well put and makes sense and am sure that after a season of riding that the handling issues would become apparent (maybe even sooner). However I still have this frame and that while adding disk brakes is not a necessity, just thought it would be fun.
Ultimately if she doesnt like the handling of the frame, we can change it.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Caffeine Powered said:


> I don't want to go there but I must... Nobody rides Rosie for a reason.
> 
> If you'd give up on the disc brake mounts your GF would be riding by now. What do you have to say to that? As for stopping power, our road tandem has XTR V-brakes and it has no problems slowing our 300# combined weight down from 50 mph safely and without drama.


Still not riding weather where I can take out my kids aswell. Plus I'm still getting parts for my FS bike if you must know.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

96gfhkek said:


> Ultimately if she doesnt like the handling of the frame, we can change it.


How will she know that it's the frame and not the fact that she just didn't like riding experience in general? I think that's what everybody is trying to say. Maybe it will be so heavy and uncomfortable that she will be turned off to the activity rather than that particular tank of a bike..

First impressions are important and negative ones tend to stay with you.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> How will she know that it's the frame and not the fact that she just didn't like riding experience in general? I think that's what everybody is trying to say. Maybe it will be so heavy and uncomfortable that she will be turned off to the activity rather than that particular tank of a bike..
> 
> First impressions are important and negative ones tend to stay with you.


She could try riding my bike for a comparison.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

96gfhkek said:


> She could try riding my bike for a comparison.


You are not getting it. She shouldn't be trying one poorly set up bike compared to one that you have built to fit you. She should not have to try a poorly set up bike at all. You should set up a bike for HER, built with her dimensions and skill level in mind, and let her learn from there. If she gets into the sport, she will learn what she likes and doesn't like and can upgrade as necessary.

You have gotten pretty much the same answer from every informed poster in this thread. Don't build the bike up like this for your GF and skip the disc brakes. You want to get your GF riding? Build her (or just buy her) a nice entry level bike with friendly geometry that fits her body. You want to build up this Y Bike? Do it, but do it for yourself for fun. It is just a mistake to think that you can make a terribly engineered 11 year old bike prone to frame failure into some awesome modern rig to get your GF into riding. As I said before, if you are gonna do it, do it right.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Go for it!:thumbsup:


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> You are not getting it. She shouldn't be trying one poorly set up bike compared to one that you have built to fit you. She should not have to try a poorly set up bike at all. You should set up a bike for HER, built with her dimensions and skill level in mind, and let her learn from there. If she gets into the sport, she will learn what she likes and doesn't like and can upgrade as necessary.
> 
> You have gotten pretty much the same answer from every informed poster in this thread. Don't build the bike up like this for your GF and skip the disc brakes. You want to get your GF riding? Build her (or just buy her) a nice entry level bike with friendly geometry that fits her body. You want to build up this Y Bike? Do it, but do it for yourself for fun. It is just a mistake to think that you can make a terribly engineered 11 year old bike prone to frame failure into some awesome modern rig to get your GF into riding. As I said before, if you are gonna do it, do it right.


With all due respect... i believe it is you and other people that aren't getting it. While I do appreciate your adamant point of view of how things should be done by the book and that you believe its the most efficient method that would save us aggravation down the road, Its not the only method of getting someone involved with the sport.

Believe it or not there is a value in figuring something out for yourself and that is the approach that my girlfriend and I are taking.

-wasting money? hardly,most everything can be resold or reused.
-wasting time? again not really, if you dont like something it can be fixed.
-Jeopardizing ones safety? That's really hard to believe.
-worrying about my girlfriend not liking the sport because of the bike we picked? Ha! thats a good one


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

96gfhkek said:


> -wasting time? again not really, if you dont like something it can be fixed.


How do you get time back once it's gone?
I believe you're missing out on a Nobel Prize



96gfhkek said:


> -worrying about my girlfriend not liking the sport because of the bike we picked? Ha! thats a good one


Actually that's a very valid point. If it doesn't worry you, fine.
I know a lot of people that are disinterested in cycling because of garbage bikes they started riding on and then just gave up and went onto running, swimming, rock climbing, etc as other forms of exercise.

* please, please, please let this thread die. I can't stand another day of Y bikes


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Take a little heat. My god, people were trying to help you.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

96gfhkek said:


> -wasting money? hardly,most everything can be resold or reused.


Yes, everything can be resold for less than you paid for it. But its you money, you must value things different from me.



96gfhkek said:


> -wasting time? again not really, if you dont like something it can be fixed.


You cannot get time back that you have spent, so yes, when it does not work, you will have wasted that time.



96gfhkek said:


> -Jeopardizing ones safety? That's really hard to believe.


Pumping up a shock to lockout pressure and then riding it in a frame that was known for breaking at the shock mounts? Yeah, you won't be putting any extra stress on the frame :rollseyes: You may be in love with the bike but that does not change the fact that it was a poor design that is prone to breakage.



96gfhkek said:


> -worrying about my girlfriend not liking the sport because of the bike we picked? Ha! thats a good one


You have got to be kidding me. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen completely turned off from the sport due to terrible equipment setup, only to discover later they actually enjoyed it when put on a bike that is appropriate for them.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> You should mount a kick stand on it.


Really? Like every one is trying to help. I never asked whether I should build it or not. Feel free to say what you want, you voice your opinions and I'll voice mine. After all thats what the forum is for right? I think your misinterpreting the tone of my post. Let the people who like the style of bike enjoy the thread.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I said people were trying to help. I didn't say I was.

My thoughts are: it's a crappy bike. Dump it. I wouldn't put somebody I cared about on that piece of crap.

There. Now I'm trying to help as well.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Shayne said:


> How do you get time back once it's gone?


Yeah, like the time we've all wasted on this thread.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

Your purpose in this thread has become abundantly clear. You came on, very excited about the frame you just got which - as far as you remembered from back when you were mountain biking in the late 90's - was a good frame. You came asking for "advice" when what you expected was for everyone to cheer you on and rave about your awesome project. When informed people actually gave you good advice, you discovered that almost all of it runs completely counter to what you had been planning. This has happened in every thread you have posted both here and in the frame building forum, where people basically told you "you have got to be kidding me, you are in way over your head." Now exposed as being relatively ignorant of bike setup and compatibility, you are trying to rationalize against the good advice you have been given because it is not what you wanted to hear, and you just can't understand why everyone doesn't love this ridiculous project.

Look, its your money and time, nobody can tell you how to spend it. If you want to build a messed up bike for your woman, go for it, you are the only one here who will have to deal with the aftermath. If you want to try to weld a disc brake bracket on the aluminum rear triangle - with NO welding knowledge or experience - again, go for it, although it will be sad to see that frame get destroyed. Your time, your bike, your woman, do whatever you want. But please do not argue against good advice from people who know more than you, and next time don't bother asking for advice unless you plan on taking it. Asking for help and then rejecting it is not the right way to attract cheerleaders.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> I said people were trying to help. I didn't say I was.
> 
> My thoughts are: it's a crappy bike. Dump it. I wouldn't put somebody I cared about on that piece of crap.
> 
> There. Now I'm trying to help as well.


That's funny. Ill take everything you guys say under advisement.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> Your purpose in this thread has become abundantly clear. You came on, very excited about the frame you just got which - as far as you remembered from back when you were mountain biking in the late 90's - was a good frame. You came asking for "advice" when what you expected was for everyone to cheer you on and rave about your awesome project. When informed people actually gave you good advice, you discovered that almost all of it runs completely counter to what you had been planning. This has happened in every thread you have posted both here and in the frame building forum, where people basically told you "you have got to be kidding me, you are in way over your head." Now exposed as being relatively ignorant of bike setup and compatibility, you are trying to rationalize against the good advice you have been given because it is not what you wanted to hear, and you just can't understand why everyone doesn't love this ridiculous project.
> 
> Look, its your money and time, nobody can tell you how to spend it. If you want to build a messed up bike for your woman, go for it, you are the only one here who will have to deal with the aftermath. If you want to try to weld a disc brake bracket on the aluminum rear triangle - with NO welding knowledge or experience - again, go for it, although it will be sad to see that frame get destroyed. Your time, your bike, your woman, do whatever you want. But please do not argue against good advice from people who know more than you, and next time don't bother asking for advice unless you plan on taking it. Asking for help and then rejecting it is not the right way to attract cheerleaders.


Boy you have some imagination...When I asked about welding a bracket and got a condescending remark, I dropped it. Doesnt take away from the fact that if someone had an answer they should have been able to post it. Believe me I understand what you saying and dont need for you to jump on the bandwagon. I also dont need for you to keep trying to convince me otherwise.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

You are the kind of guy who would come into my shop with a ridiculous plan for upgrading a bike, and wanting to know what we thought of it. We would be honest, despite the fact that we could make money on it, and tell him point blank it is not worth it. We would give him advice about alternatives, explain why his original plan was not going to work, and steer him towards a better path. This type of customer was always insistent on doing it his way, so after coming in and getting advice he would always disregard it and ask how much it would cost to go with his plan. Frustrated at his chosen ignorance, and anticipating a gross waste of our time, we would quote him a ridiculous price for the job. We figured if he is dumb enough to pay what we are asking then he is too stupid to know the difference with the performance of the finished product, so who cares. 9 time out of 10 they had us do the work, and then usually came back in a couple months later to change to one of the original things that was suggested.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

96gfhkek said:


> Boy you have some imagination...When I asked about welding a bracket and got a condescending remark, I dropped it. Doesnt take away from the fact that if someone had an answer they should have been able to post it. Believe me I understand what you saying and dont need for you to jump on the bandwagon. I also dont need for you to keep trying to convince me otherwise.


You asked people in the frame building forum to walk you through with "baby steps" how to weld and then heat treat aluminum. You are in so far over your head you should have an air tank.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Something about horses, and drinking water comes to mind.....


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> You are the kind of guy who would come into my shop with a ridiculous plan for upgrading a bike, and wanting to know what we thought of it. We would be honest, despite the fact that we could make money on it, and tell him point blank it is not worth it. We would give him advice about alternatives, explain why his original plan was not going to work, and steer him towards a better path. This type of customer was always insistent on doing it his way, so after coming in and getting advice he would always disregard it and ask how much it would cost to go with his plan. Frustrated at his chosen ignorance, and anticipating a gross waste of our time, we would quote him a ridiculous price for the job. We figured if he is dumb enough to pay what we are asking then he is too stupid to know the difference with the performance of the finished product, so who cares. 9 time out of 10 they had us do the work, and then usually came back in a couple months later to change to one of the original things that was suggested.


That's awesome! So how much will you charge me to swap out frames when im ready?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

apat13 said:


> You asked people in the frame building forum to walk you through with "baby steps" how to weld and then heat treat aluminum.


Wasn't following this one that closely. Really???

This is like giving your wife the keys to the car that you just allowed some random neighborhood 10 year old to do a brake job on.

Would you really do that?

Bring her out here, and ask her if she wants to ride a bike that you cut your welding teeth on, and then mention that aluminum welding is way sketchier than say, steel, where you at least have a margin of error and failure mode such that you don't get hurt or die, usually....:skep:


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

96gfhkek said:


> That's awesome! So how much will you charge me to swap out frames when im ready?


I think it would be at least a $350-$450 job. Those Trek Y-Bikes have a lot of special things that need to be done, and my guys are the only ones in town who know how to do it. I gotta warn you, it will take a few weeks and most likely come in over budget, but it will be done exactly how you want.

Oh, and make sure not to tell ANYBODY you got that done here.....I don't want my shop name attached....I mean....uhhh.....I don't want anyone to steal your awesome idea!


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

apat13 said:


> I think it would be at least a $350-$450 job. Those Trek Y-Bikes have a lot of special things that need to be done, and my guys are the only ones in town who know how to do it. I gotta warn you, it will take a few weeks and most likely come in over budget, but it will be done exactly how you want.
> 
> Oh, and make sure not to tell ANYBODY you got that done here.....I don't want my shop name attached....I mean....uhhh.....I don't want anyone to steal your awesome idea!


LMFAO..Nice! seriously though...She's just going to do regular trail riding.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 5, 2009)

Nice red Y frame. Ain't nothing wrong with giving and old bike a new life. 

These URT bikes make for good fireroad riding in the present day. I rode one for a year back in the hey days when URT where the thing. The design was bad for the out of saddle rough spots, but seated riding was just fine and felt cush.

As for the rear disc, you could try the Chasertech adapter that someone posted earlier, the yellow/black Y bike several post above. It's about $50, but it looks like he/she had to dremel out a section to accommodate for the welds.

But if it was my decision, I'd keep it V-brake in the rear. Simple and it works. With these disc adapters, wheel removal can be finicky.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Wasn't following this one that closely. Really???
> 
> This is like giving your wife the keys to the car that you just allowed some random neighborhood 10 year old to do a brake job on.
> 
> ...


Yes I did. just trying to get a answer. Instead I got the thread closed. What a shame.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

holy cromoly said:


> Nice red Y frame. Ain't nothing wrong with giving and old bike a new life.
> 
> These URT bikes make for good fireroad riding in the present day. I rode one for a year back in the hey days when URT where the thing. The design was bad for the out of saddle rough spots, but seated riding was just fine and felt cush.
> 
> ...


Thanks... I'll look into that! Right now I'm wondering if I could just mould a bracket that just lays on top of the seat stay and locks in to the dropout. Then have it machined out of aluminum. Who knows if I'll ever get around to having it done, but it doesnt hurt thinking abuot it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Funny stuff. 

These are fine bikes for a girl starting to ride. For a serious rider that hauls as$ down hills and knows suspension, this is not the bike. Travis Brown went fast on his Y bike in XC races and I betcha he could still beat each and every one of us on his Y bike.

That said, I've despised URT's from the very beginning for the huge flaw of not working while standing, but seriously, they're not really that bad unless you are a serious rider who loves downhills. For average XC riders (ie most) these are fine bikes. And if she really digs the looks, I think it'd be a fine choice. When she starts racing sport class DH and talking about suspension action (or lack thereof) through the stutter bumps while standing, look for a modern rig.

And yes, I have spent time on one. Had to borrow one one day while on vacation. 

What does a bare frame weigh, anyway? Always wondered that since it seems common to hear that they're light.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

Going downhill sucks!


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## jager7 (Sep 29, 2008)

to 96gfhkek:

if you insist upon discs, just use one of the bolt on adapters. 

I just picked up a y-11 off craigslist for my girlfriend, and she LOVES it. She's ridden more than I have in the last month. Gonna swap out some more parts, and if she gets real serious, we'll go to a different frame, but she admits part of why she likes it is the look. Fine by me, atleast she's riding


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## NeverFree (Nov 8, 2009)

96gfhkek, curious what bike are you building for yourself? any pics/parts spec.


Thats great you want to get your gf into riding. Thats great you want to build a bike with her.

As far as why you are adamant about getting a rear disc brake on that bike I'm lost.

The riding you described her doing will be more than handled by a v-brake. and if you are so inclined buy a disc fork and put a mechanical disc brake on the front.

There now your problem is solved and its a MUCH safer solution than trying to weld Aluminum when you have little experience doing so.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

NeverFree said:


> 96gfhkek, curious what bike are you building for yourself? any pics/parts spec.
> 
> Thats great you want to get your gf into riding. Thats great you want to build a bike with her.
> 
> ...


Check my profile for my bike. Just want to add them to the rear 'cause the front fork will have them. By no means is this a make or break deal for her to ride. If I dont get a bracket made by the time we're ready to ride, then yes I will put on v brakes in the rear. We both never put together a bike before and it just seems fun to do(no more, no less).


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi 96gfhkek, cool-looking frame, and it seems to be in great shape.

Just a quick question - why do you want disc brakes at all, even on the front?

Disc wheels are heavier, the brake systems are usually more expensive, and replacement parts are more expensive as well. Does your girlfriend really need some added braking power for her cross-country rides?

I'm 190 lbs and my hardtail has XTR V-Brakes, which I've never really had a problem with. They're light, have great braking power and are more than enough for 99% of the riding I do. I also own 2009 XT hydro disc brakes on my full suspension, and find them overkill unless I'm bombing down a steep hill.

Think about sticking with the V-brakes. You can find XTRs used online, and you have many more options for inexpensive, high-end rim brake-specific wheelsets - I recently saw a pair of XTR hubs laced to Mavic 517 rims in great shape for <$80 on craigslist.

Good luck with the build, and hope you and your girlfriend enjoy your new bikes. I know there's something very rewarding about riding a bike you built yourself vs. getting something pre-assembled from a shop.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

We tried JTM we tried to explain all this really. Kind of tunnel visioned on this one.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

jtmartino said:


> Hi 96gfhkek, cool-looking frame, and it seems to be in great shape.
> 
> Just a quick question - why do you want disc brakes at all, even on the front?
> 
> ...


Just having fun with the build. Thanks for the kind words.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Got a couple more pics to share.








I figure this was mandatory for the bike

...and here is the crank. Going with a 1x9 set up. 








Still need to get a BB.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Vintage gems!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

The second worthwhile post in this thread!!


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Too bad the link didn't go where I was hoping.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

96gfhkek, 

In terms of rear disc brake, the easiest and fastest way is to mount an adapter like many other Y bike owners have done. If you still want a weld on version, as i remember Cambria bikes used to sell IS tabs for the rear and you just need to find a weld shop locally and have them do it for you. Heat treated after welding is "ideal" but sometimes its just not practical. I also ride motorcycles and know many rider who race too and they sometimes have to repair a crack frame or swingarms and there is no way they're going to remove the engine/carbs/electricals just so they can heat treat the welds. Same thing applied to car builders. Proper preparations of the bonding surface is more critical.

Built up your bike and ride, only then you'll know and judge for yourself the pro's and con's of a Y bike or URT from Y bike haters and enthusiast. There is a lot of hype and marketing in bike tech/suspension design, like hubs for example and the battle for 15mm or 20mm size. Just to put things in perspective, my 750cc motorcycle which makes 115hp got 15mm front axel and 20mm rear and it handles the horsepower fine. The latest motorbikes move up to 25mm axels front and rear but they make 180hp and go up to 170mph. Average cyclist makes 1/2-3/4hp on a good day and to say we need 15mm or 20mm hubs is beyond me.

Same thing with steer tube size. People now are pushing for 1.5" steer tube as standard but i know there are some motocross bikes that still use a 1" steer tube size and it handle 15 feet drops just fine.

Cycling, in the end is about legs and fitness. I keep up with friends on climbs on his $5,000 Specialized Epic and the other guy throw up half way on his DW-Link bike. You can't buy performance on bikes like you can with motorcycles or cars. Set up is critical on Y bike rear end, 5psi up or down will make a difference so try different settings and take notes. I think what you'll learn in the process of built up from a bike frame (components & setup) will be more valuable then whether its a Y bike or Yeti.


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## mudlover71 (May 20, 2006)

Go for it! You da man!!!!!! Can't wait to see the finished product........Rock on gfhek or whatever your name is:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: "I am Smart SMRT"- Homer Simpson


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## racerwad (Sep 17, 2005)

fjyang said:


> Few people in the US knows that the Y bike concept live on in Europe a few more years. The Y bikes didn't died out when Trek discontinued them at 2000.
> 
> Two European firms namely Fischer (not to be confused with Gary Fisher) and Bergwerk of Germany take the Y bike concept of Trek and develop it further from 2001-2003 from 4" travel XC version to 6" monster downhill bike called the Bergwerk Moonraker. They all switch over to single pivot design on the rear suspension instead of URT's but keep faithfull to the Y shape that won design awards throughout the world.
> 
> ...


Why hasn't anyone else noticed post #47 that referenced this post? Just because a bike has a similar Y shape doesn't reflect at all on how it is going to ride. These are high and low monopivots. Comparing these bikes to a URT is like comparing a Horst Link to a DW-Link bike because they are both shiny and have round wheels on each end. These bikes are nothing like the Trek Y bikes. It kind of erodes any credibility fjyang is attempting to give based upon his "expertise" on these kinds of bikes. BTW, the reason the Y bike has been so heavily imitated is because it is cheap to build and requires no engineering, not because it is a good design.

Anyhow, OP, you asked for all thoughts and it seems like you've gotten them. I look forward to the finished product. And, I'm interested in the total amount of money and time you've invested. Just curious


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

I haven't spent much time on the bike as Im still getting parts. Seems like I've spent more time on the thread. I'm around a grand so far and I'll break down the price and parts when its completed.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

jager7 said:


> to 96gfhkek:
> 
> if you insist upon discs, just use one of the bolt on adapters.
> 
> I just picked up a y-11 off craigslist for my girlfriend, and she LOVES it. She's ridden more than I have in the last month. Gonna swap out some more parts, and if she gets real serious, we'll go to a different frame, but she admits part of why she likes it is the look. Fine by me, atleast she's riding


That's what its about! Awesome!!!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

96gfhkek said:


> I'm around a grand so far and I'll break down the price and parts when its completed.


Inflation! 

Hurry up and weld that sucker up! :thumbsup:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

racerwad said:


> Why hasn't anyone else noticed post #47 that referenced this post? Just because a bike has a similar Y shape doesn't reflect at all on how it is going to ride. These are high and low monopivots. Comparing these bikes to a URT is like comparing a Horst Link to a DW-Link bike because they are both shiny and have round wheels on each end. These bikes are nothing like the Trek Y bikes. It kind of erodes any credibility fjyang is attempting to give based upon his "expertise" on these kinds of bikes. BTW, the reason the Y bike has been so heavily imitated is because it is cheap to build and requires no engineering, not because it is a good design.
> 
> Anyhow, OP, you asked for all thoughts and it seems like you've gotten them. I look forward to the finished product. And, I'm interested in the total amount of money and time you've invested. Just curious


Good points, but I thought I saw earlier in the thread that someone did mention the fact that these Bergwerks (or whatever) were not URT's like the Trek.


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## mudlover71 (May 20, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Good points, but I thought I saw earlier in the thread that someone did mention the fact that these Bergwerks (or whatever) were not URT's like the Trek.


I believe post 46 covered that, at least for those in the know anyway.


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## racerwad (Sep 17, 2005)

Right, the guy that posted the pics said that they weren't URTs but that since they shared the Y shape, they must also be awesome. It just seemed like an inane argument.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

racerwad said:


> Right, the guy that posted the pics said that they weren't URTs but that since they shared the Y shape, they must also be awesome. It just seemed like an inane argument.


yeah, some funny stuff here. another good one is that based on the premise that imitation is flattery, Magna and Next also use the Y shape.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Magna and Next also use the Y shape.


And no doubt have sold more "Y bikes" than Trek could have ever imagined to.
It truely is a timeless design.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I've seen NEXTs with triple triangles too - for shame.


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## ChipV (Jun 6, 2005)

I've still got my Y 5.0 Rasta edition hanging on my garage wall. Sure, some modern bikes are worlds better, but it was a great bike back in the day and I never had any issues with it. 

One thing most folks don't know is that the high end Y-bikes came with a rear shock that had a remote lock out. IMO, that was essential to make the bike perform like it should as an xc/ race bike. Bascially, if you came to a climb, you clicked the lock-out and treated the bike like a hardtail. When you were going downhill or sitting and spinning, you kept the shock open. If you spent any time on the bike, you learned how to ride it and switching the shock on & off became second nature.

There was a comment about sag. If you used the lock out as intended, you got a steeper head angle for climbs, where you need it. On downhills, you got a slightly slacker HA because of sag (which was minimal). Someone said something about just getting an aluminum hardtail. Funny thing- everyone I knew who had Y-bikes (or ano of the other FS bikes at the time) switched to them from alluminum hardtails. URT suspension may not be great, but it was still world's smoother than solid 6061. 

I think it is pretty cool what the OP is doing. I would HIGHLY reccomend a rear shock with a lockout, though. In fact, I would not even bother with the bike without one.


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## edallmighty (Sep 27, 2011)

Great thread...very informative..I just picked up a Y22 to rebuild and I plan on putting some high end parts...I'm doing it mainly out of nostalgia. Think 68 mustang rebuild or a ducati cafe racer....the bike looks sweet and is timeless (I'm a designer by trade)....money is not a problem I can easily get a new one but where's the fun in that...I plan on taking pictures and starting a blog  lol


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Good luck on your build!

I'll try posting the finished pics when I get a chance.
Post the link to your blog. I'd love to see it.


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## mpaulb1386 (Sep 21, 2011)

Cool build my first real mtb was a trek y11. Always a special place in my heart for those bikes.


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## adroit 96' (Sep 16, 2011)

OMG I remember these....I worked at a Schwinn/Trek/Klein/GT/Raleigh dealership part time then. I sold plenty of Y bikes and Mantra's and oh boy, the look of disappointment on customers faces when knowing we were shop employee's and could have any bike we wanted, that none of the shop employee's rode URT's and rode hard tails lol.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Here is a picture of the bracket I made.









One of the shock,









The cables tied up,









The grip shift that's used to control the shock,









The fork that I rebuilt









And one of the front of the bike before I connected the fork lockout to the other grip shift.









That's most of the pictures I got so far. Enjoy


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## GoBuffs (Dec 7, 2009)

96gfhkek said:


> Here is a picture of the bracket I made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if I'm correct it has grip shifters for the lockouts AND a trigger shifter for the rear derailleur? And super expensive parts? And it's for your beginner girlfriend? And you have more $$ than sense? And you're a complete idiot? Sorry that last one was rhetorical.


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## 96gfhkek (Oct 18, 2008)

Yes, it has gripshifters for the lockouts and a trigger shifter for the rear derailleur. It's fun as heck to ride too! I had to test ride it a few times to make sure it was safe before i gave it to my lady.  

The sad part is that the lockout for the fork stopped working after a short while of using it. The problem is that the stock cable has a permanently fixed locking key attached to it. Pace doesn't sell longer cables, so I had to drill out the old cable from this "key" and attach the new one. I just crimped the new cable on and this wasnt strong enough, so come this winter I'll pull it apart again and solder it. Hopefully this will do the trick.


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## Bluerider74 (Oct 8, 2011)

This is cool to see that people still like this bike. I have a 1997 cream y22 I'm putting back to riding condition. I bought it new in 1997. I was wondering if anyone has tried to put bigger tires on this bike? I'm wondering if 2.35 on front and 2.25 on the back will fit. My y22 is all original parts. Thanks


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## DoDoBird (Dec 10, 2011)

I put some 2.2's frt and bck on my Y-22 no prob.


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## _lele_ (Nov 17, 2014)

fjyang said:


> Below are what others have done to mount disc on their Y bike URT's some crude, some vary professional so there's no shortage of options & creativity.


I would revive this thread posting a link to my recent "upgrade" that is made of 2014 components on a 1997 Y frame.

https://forums.mtbr.com/general-dis...e-disc-brake-adapter-925770.html#post11595817

Just to add myself to the list of retarded guys as we are named here


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