# Why take a fixed gear bike offroad?



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

http://www.63xc.com/faq/faq.htm#whytake

Why take a fixed gear bike offroad?
Anyone using a mtb fixie with flip-flop to retain the singlespeed option with the same cog?
Is using rear disk brake with a fixie oxymoranic?

With singlespeed (not a fixie) with rear disk brake how do you center the disk brake and move the wheel to adjust chain tension along the singlespeed horizontal drops (track ends)?

Can a standard drop-out frame with Surly Chain Tension device mounted work as a fixie?


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## MellowCat (Jan 12, 2004)

*why not?*

"Why take a fixed gear bike offroad?" - once you see an expert fixie rider offroad you'll know why. I'm still in awe from the last time I rode with a fixie expert offroad.

"Anyone using a mtb fixie with flip-flop to retain the singlespeed option with the same cog?" - sure

"Is using rear disk brake with a fixie oxymoranic?" - why bother?

"With singlespeed and rear disk brakes (not a fixie) how do you center the disk brake without a singlespeed horizontal drop out such as a frame with standard geared dropout?" - not sure I get what your asking...

MC


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## Lutarious (Feb 8, 2005)

*Raw Meat*

I use a flip flop ENO on my Bontrager with a smaller fixed gear compared to the free wheel. I don't tend to ride it very hard in fixed mode, and it feels better on the road to and from the trails, but I am always surprised how much power I get from the fixie. Such a direct connetion to the dirt. I love it. It's like eating raw meat.


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## FTM (Sep 14, 2004)

TrailNut said:


> http://www.63xc.com/faq/faq.htm#whytake
> 
> Why take a fixed gear bike offroad?
> Anyone using a mtb fixie with flip-flop to retain the singlespeed option with the same cog?
> ...


Because it's fun and much more control over technical terrain

flip-flop but fixed on both sides

not oxymoronic but unecessary. No rear brakes are needed for riding fixed offroad, you'll just end up skidding and tearing up the trails.

dunno, your question is oddly worded


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I ride on trails where I frequently need to pay attention to avoid pedals hitting rocks, stumps and even soft ground (gearie now, getting together a SS conversion). I _think_ a fixie would be more tricky there.


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## felixdale (Mar 15, 2006)

I have it on my SS but don't use it much. It's fine on the long non technical trails but on the woody, rooty stuff it slows you down a lot and the downhills are just a pain. I run the set-up below so can not use a rear disc anyway - I have rear V brake. Some might think a fixie is fine with no rear brake - I wouldn't do it offroad. The brake allows more control of the back end and is used a lot more off-road than you might think.


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## gabe (Mar 25, 2004)

Feel the trail, be the trail, keep pedaling not matter what happens, simple pure ridding......... I recently converted to fixie and now can't seem to enjoy anything else. Coasting just doesnt seem right anymore.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

I have a spare wheel that I throw on for shitake and giggles now and then. I even bothered to do a hundie on it last Sept. Why? Why not. It's interesting and challenging and stimulating and scary and fun and.... get the picture? 
I went with no brake in the rear, but some of the guys at the race had V's. Try doing this with just a front brake:









I have the option to flip my spare wheel, but it's fixed on that side too.
I don't take my feet off the pedals when I am just rolling around on the trails, but in a race scenario you have to do it if you want to win. Super scary stuff coasting downhill on a shinburger meat processor.


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## gabe (Mar 25, 2004)

MTB racing on a fixie? A "fixie class" would seperate the men from the animals, but a fixie in an open class would just be...........:madman:


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

gabe said:


> MTB racing on a fixie? A "fixie class" would seperate the men from the animals, but a fixie in an open class would just be...........:madman:


They didn't technically have a "fixie class" at Shenandoah, but there were enough of us that they did put it in the results.


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## 2xPneu (Jan 26, 2004)

gabe said:


> MTB racing on a fixie? A "fixie class" would seperate the men from the animals, but a fixie in an open class would just be...........:madman:


Not necessarily that bad, depending on the course, of...er...course.

I've been on a rigid FG with 34mm CX tires exclusively for the last couple of years, and recently built up a Rohloff hardtail 29er with 2.1 tires. I ride a course called the Piranha Pit in eastern NC, it's about 5 miles long, very rooty over the entire course, with a few fairly technical sections. On the fixie I have to walk up a couple of short steep hills, and usually dab here and there. My best time on a fixie is 31 minutes, it's normally in the 33-34 minute range.

When I first rode the course on the geared, suspended, fat tired bike I thought I'd destroy my fixie times, but I was actually about the same. Now that I've got some time on the geared bike my times have come down some, but not nearly as drastically as I would have thought.

When I ride fixed with a group, I can normally keep up pretty well (this is on rooty east coast singletrack).

So although you'd probably not be on the podium in an open race, you might do better than you think. This assumes, of course, you're riding in a class whose cardiovascular fitness and bike handling skills are roughly equivalent to yours...RC


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

clip-less pedals (I have a pair of Atac Z-controls) or platform pedals?


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*29er fixie ridgid?*



2xPneu said:



> Not necessarily that bad, depending on the course, of...er...course.
> 
> I've been on a rigid FG with 34mm CX tires exclusively for the last couple of years, and recently built up a Rohloff hardtail 29er with 2.1 tires. I ride a course called the Piranha Pit in eastern NC, it's about 5 miles long, very rooty over the entire course, with a few fairly technical sections. On the fixie I have to walk up a couple of short steep hills, and usually dab here and there. My best time on a fixie is 31 minutes, it's normally in the 33-34 minute range.
> 
> ...


have been tempted to buy a Kona Unit 29er steel or a Suryly Karate Monkey. The Monkeys' 5.5# heavy, but fits wide 2.7" tire. Don't know how wide a tire the Unit can go.

If I can find a standard 26 steel frame that'll fit WTB Timberwolf Race 2.5" single speed dropouts for about $500~600 I'd buy it. I'm still an irrational weight weenie, still deluding that I'll get to my fittest weight someday soon.

racing a fixie sounds crazy cool.


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## 2xPneu (Jan 26, 2004)

TrailNut said:


> clip-less pedals (I have a pair of Atac Zs) or platform pedals?


I use ATAC Z-controls.

Nice to have some pedal area to help you catch the pedal if you clip out when you hit a root/rock.


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## gabe (Mar 25, 2004)

Here is my 29" (700c) fixie......It weighs about 21lbs and with 35mm tires it's a rocket though I did build it with clearance for a wider 2.3" tire but I think that would slow it down quite a bit and since it's all steel the ride is not that harsh but like everything else it's all relative.


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## mrsalty (Feb 7, 2006)

*Hijack!*

What cog are you using for the 'fixie' portion.
Did you drill it yourself (if so, how)??
Washers for spacers??

Thanks,
C.



felixdale said:


> I have it on my SS but don't use it much. It's fine on the long non technical trails but on the woody, rooty stuff it slows you down a lot and the downhills are just a pain. I run the set-up below so can not use a rear disc anyway - I have rear V brake. Some might think a fixie is fine with no rear brake - I wouldn't do it offroad. The brake allows more control of the back end and is used a lot more off-road than you might think.


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## whatthedillyo13 (Jul 12, 2006)

I rode FG brakeless in the Chequamegon Fat Tire 40...some crazy down hills really slowed me down. Really really fun though. Knowing or pre-riding the course would really help on a fixie.
Setup: Bianchi SASS, Profile BMX Cranks, Velocity Deep V's w/Phil fixed rear and XT front, Jeff Jones curved H Bar XC. Bomb proof bike. I love the ride!!!!!!!!

Do IT!


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

*Fixie Monkey*



TrailNut said:


> have been tempted to buy a Kona Unit 29er steel or a Suryly Karate Monkey. The Monkeys' 5.5# heavy, but fits wide 2.7" tire. Don't know how wide a tire the Unit can go.
> racing a fixie sounds crazy cool.


I am just starting to ride my fixed KM. I have both a front and a back disk brake on it - using an adapter on a Surly flip/flop. Don't try this unless you have access to a lathe - the side-side spacing has to be fixed (ha).

My 45" gear seems to be working out, but we'll see how it goes over time. Riding trails is a challenge but still very much fun. I haven't HAD to use the brakes yet, so the rear is on sched for bye-bye. Front disc stays, even if for emergency use only.

On my gearies, I am comfortable with a standard flat bar - but I can see that a wider bar is going to be almost a necessity for a fixie.


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## felixdale (Mar 15, 2006)

mrsalty,

I used a cheap pressed steel cog that came with a SS converter kit. These are quite easy to drill. Mine is an 18 tooth. You need a standard 6 bolt dics to mark it up - lay the disc on top of the cog and center it up - make sure of this - eye up the centre edges of the cog against the centre circle of the disc and measure the distance in three places to check it is in the middle. Hold tight and draw the 6 round circles where the bolts go. Centre punch these and then using good quality HSS bits drill the holes. 2mm first all the way through and then a 5.5mm to finish. De-burr with a 7mm or similar and that's it. Mine ended up spot on - just take some time and care - worth a try for a few £'s (or $'s!). Especially if it is not for you. The washers are just to perfect the chainline.


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## FrozenK (Mar 17, 2005)

TrailNut said:


> have been tempted to buy a Kona Unit 29er steel or a Suryly Karate Monkey. The Monkeys' 5.5# heavy, but fits wide 2.7" tire. Don't know how wide a tire the Unit can go.
> 
> *If I can find a standard 26 steel frame that'll fit WTB Timberwolf Race 2.5" single speed dropouts for about $500~600 I'd buy it. I'm still an irrational weight weenie, still deluding that I'll get to my fittest weight someday soon.*
> 
> racing a fixie sounds crazy cool.


Surly 1x1?


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

*Not for me*

I have been riding for the past few months with a fixed cog. I have taken it on a few trails and found it to be not much good for any trail with tight corners or obstacles. Maybe with a lot of practice a guy could get good at it but I'd like to see how a fixed bike goes over logs or through tight turns with rocks or roots on the inside of the turn.

I am skeptical about the claims of more control or better power.

On the other hand it is a thrill and you do have to be much more alert and careful.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm going to give the other two questions you asked a shot:

_With singlespeed (not a fixie) with rear disk brake how do you center the disk brake and move the wheel to adjust chain tension along the singlespeed horizontal drops (track ends)? you have to have a frame that has an adjustable disc mount. There might be other ways

Can a standard drop-out frame with Surly Chain Tension device mounted work as a fixie?_ NO. you can't use a tensioner for a fix gear.


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## 2xPneu (Jan 26, 2004)

Traktor said:


> Maybe with a lot of practice a guy could get good at it but I'd like to see how a fixed bike goes over logs or through tight turns with rocks or roots on the inside of the turn.


Bingo. It takes a lot of practice and a lot of just taking a deep breath and going for it. Get the momentum up and you can clear a lot of obstacles, including logs. You've gotta learn to reposition the pedals by unweighting the rear wheel to momentarily stop the drivetrain to clear stuff like logs and roots and rocks. Sometimes called skidding. And if it's too technical, just walk.


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## tryjordan (Dec 8, 2005)

*single speed to the next level*

You become part of the bike!


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## Mikey_C (Mar 8, 2005)

anyone who claims the fixie helps them better at technical stuff or makes them faster does it for the same reason NYC messengers ride fixie with no brakes for the response of people saying they are wacky or like to be different factor or need an excuse when they do something stupid like hit a taxi when they cant slow down fast enough. THe purpose of fixed gear is to eliminate the mechanical locking mechanism and have direct power transfer. It is also very effective at teaching a rider to have a smoother more efficient pedal stroke which can benefit any rider. But riding a fixed gear on technical mtn trails is asking to get hurt. If you ride faster on a fixie than you do with a freewheel its because the wheel is pushing your pedals and your momentum which often is beyond the riders ability and can lead to crashes and falls. Even more significant is the need to rachet your crank to avoid rocks roots or even flat land on a tight turn. On a fixed gear you are forced to lift your rear tire off the ground or hit your crank/pedal on the obstruction. Neither of which are safe. 

The momentum argument is often given as a means of 'helping a person learn to hit logs or tech sections'. Its not momentum to get you to clear logs its speed, control and experience. So substitute momentum with the combo of speed and some balls and you will become a much better rider. 

So if you want to mux it up and be different ride a fixie, but stay away if you looking for a means to improve your tech skills.

Ready for flames. But I just could not sit on the sidelines and listen to people giving advise that makes mtn biking even more dangerous.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Mikey_C said:


> But I just could not sit on the sidelines and listen to people giving advise that makes mtn biking even more dangerous.


Mtn biking is dangerous???
I'm out.

I won't bother arguing the messenger bit. Some guys are on them for all the wrong reasons. They get their's soon enough.


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## BikeSnob (Feb 14, 2005)

*Tell me this...*

What, if any, would be the terrain limitations of riding a fixed gear offroad? 
What about riding style limitations?
I am finding it difficult to visualize shredding down a technical trail at high speed, carving turns, hitting drops, etc. on a fixed gear bike!

I hate to say this, cuz you guys are gonna get mad, but riding fixed off road seems silly unless its mostly flat where you live.


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## thadthetroll (Jan 22, 2004)

*umm,well i just...*

I love riding these fixies offroad. I live in Western North Carolina and ride the trails in Pisgah so its steep,rocky,rooty east coast.
The fun on a fixie for me comes from the control..meaning it is absolutely necessary that i remain in control of the rear wheel,pedal placement,and steering all the time. I find i have to be "on it"all the time which doesnt mean going balls out for speed.
I`d say riding fixed makes me a better rider cause it forces me to focus.
I do really agree with a comment another rider made as he just kinda stared.."it`s just not right"


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

thadthetroll said:


> I love riding these fixies offroad. I live in Western North Carolina and ride the trails in Pisgah so its steep,rocky,rooty east coast.
> The fun on a fixie for me comes from the control..meaning it is absolutely necessary that i remain in control of the rear wheel,pedal placement,and steering all the time. I find i have to be "on it"all the time which doesnt mean going balls out for speed.
> I`d say riding fixed makes me a better rider cause it forces me to focus.
> I do really agree with a comment another rider made as he just kinda stared.."it`s just not right"


nice bikes (and Element's cool, I have one also)

since i already have a "beater" single-speed (perfect townie) now
I'm yearing for a fixie fix, should be NP around my hills. I'll aways have a geared bike


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*Okie*



KavuRider said:


> I'm going to give the other two questions you asked a shot:
> 
> _With singlespeed (not a fixie) with rear disk brake how do you center the disk brake and move the wheel to adjust chain tension along the singlespeed horizontal drops (track ends)? you have to have a frame that has an adjustable disc mount. There might be other ways
> 
> Can a standard drop-out frame with Surly Chain Tension device mounted work as a fixie?_ NO. you can't use a tensioner for a fix gear.


t'anks
looks like i'll be frame shopping...


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## Singlespeedpunk (Jan 6, 2004)

Mikey_C said:


> <snip> for the response of people saying they are wacky or like to be different factor or need an excuse when they do something stupid like hit a taxi when they cant slow down fast enough. <snip> But riding a fixed gear on technical mtn trails is asking to get hurt. If you ride faster on a fixie than you do with a freewheel its because the wheel is pushing your pedals and your momentum which often is beyond the riders ability and can lead to crashes and falls. Even more significant is the need to rachet your crank to avoid rocks roots or even flat land on a tight turn. On a fixed gear you are forced to lift your rear tire off the ground or hit your crank/pedal on the obstruction. Neither of which are safe.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


To be honest in my experience full-suspension, disc brakes and body armour are more likely to make someone ride outside their limits and crash badly than a fixie. Fixies limit you, they are not easy....if you looking for easy stay home or buy a motor bike! 

Remember the fixies mantra: "Calm Down"

Alex


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

Singlespeedpunk said:


> or buy a motor bike!


That really winds up guys who ride offroad motorbikes hehe (I don't though....but I know it does from experience with ppl who do).

I riode fixed on my pomp sometimes. I haveb't done it enough to be truely comfortable, and I certainly need good brakes at both ends.

I was hitting pedals enough at the race this weekend just gone with gears/freewheel lol. I am sure most of you guys would kick my ass in a race (much like many of the solo singlespeeders were doing ). I think I would get pretty frustrated riding fixed offroad.

On the pomp I can feel it stretching the muscles out spinning away on descents even if I rein it in a bit with the brakes.

fixie bikes do look real nice though...beautifully simple.

Stu


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

> With singlespeed (not a fixie) with rear disk brake how do you center the disk brake and move the wheel to adjust chain tension along the singlespeed horizontal drops (track ends)? you have to have a frame that has an adjustable disc mount. There might be other ways


there are other ways, you absolutely *do not* need an adjustable disc mount! i have no problems whatsoever adjusting my disc on my horizontal drops (i use avid bb7's, lots of adjustibility). there are times when the disc sweep is not 100% engaging, but i ride DH/FR stuff on mine and never have a problem with braking, just wears the pads a bit weird.


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## FTM (Sep 14, 2004)

BikeSnob said:


> What, if any, would be the terrain limitations of riding a fixed gear offroad?
> What about riding style limitations?
> I am finding it difficult to visualize shredding down a technical trail at high speed, carving turns, hitting drops, etc. on a fixed gear bike!
> 
> I hate to say this, cuz you guys are gonna get mad, but riding fixed off road seems silly unless its mostly flat where you live.


None really ina an XC context, just up to the skill level of the rider.

I can't ride technical trails fast, but I don't really care to.

Difficult to visualize because I can't, nor do I care to, shred.

It is silly, but then so are people driving their bike to the top of a mountain to ride down then drive back up to get the car. Most recreational activities are silly if you really think about it. I like being silly, much better than being cool.


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## smarty (Apr 14, 2005)

The thing that has always bugged me about riding fixed off-road is the skidding (a necessary part of braking and pedal placement with a fixed gear). I have always been taught that skidding is very bad for trails (Kona's old mantra: "Skid in your shorts, not on the trail"; see generally IMBA). 

How is it possible to be one with the bike/nature/God/mothernature when that one is trenching up the trails?


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## FTM (Sep 14, 2004)

Who said skidding was necessary? If you're skidding with your rear wheel (fixed or free with a brake) you are doing something wrong. I can slow and stop without skidding no problem by using a combination of resistance pedaling and my front disc brake.


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## thadthetroll (Jan 22, 2004)

*Yep...what FTM said*



smarty said:


> The thing that has always bugged me about riding fixed off-road is the skidding (a necessary part of braking and pedal placement with a fixed gear). I have always been taught that skidding is very bad for trails (Kona's old mantra: "Skid in your shorts, not on the trail", see generally IMBA).
> 
> How is it possible to one with the bike/nature/God/mothernature when that one is trenching up the trails?


Fixed riding is all about control,control,control...the only time that i skid is in a sudden panic stop,but then on fs/ss/dh isnt that the same thing...it seems i had to skid on my Rm7 much more than im doing on the fixie..
It seems that the "fixie " folks are thought of as weird,foolish,silly,unpractical but then it seems only a few short years ago that was the same thought towards singlespeeders which is now very mainstream as much as i hate to admit it.
I`ll make a prediction that in 2-3 years offroad fixie riders will be just about as mainstream as singlespeeders are now and i hope that will not be the case . It seems most"fixed gear" posts get a lot of interest these days...


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

smarty said:


> The thing that has always bugged me about riding fixed off-road is the skidding (a necessary part of braking and pedal placement with a fixed gear).


"Fixie off-road = skidding" : is a common fallacy - because messengers do it, doesn't mean mtb'ers do it. While you _can _skid, it's alot easier to skid with a rear brake.


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## JAK (Jan 6, 2004)

*because you can.....*



TrailNut said:


> http://www.63xc.com/faq/faq.htm#whytake


I have a Spot CX, midge bars, front '95XTRcanti, 2 cages and a 42 X 17/21 flipflop. This last summer I rode it all week and my SS29 on weekends. It was hella fun and productive for me. Made my knees strong...made my skill level increase...made my brain freak-the-fuk-out in my skull. 42x21 worked for most ups and 42X17 worked for riding to the T-head as well as the decents. Our 3 in town riding areas are super conducive to the fixed wheel riding experience. The added challenge of fixt brought me back to my Judo days when I was a youngster....in other words you are always engaged and you can work with macines 'inertias'(for lack of a better term) to achieve lines, speed and feel whilst working sections of trail. At first I was apprehensive cuz I didn't want to go out and lay-skid on our local trails. I learned that while decending a simple touch/tap on the front brake will take just enough weight off the back wheel and allow you to make spin/stroke mods while at speed...this allows for more comfort and proper pedaling through corners. I got the idea while following Rudi on the first descent at the CreamPuff a couple years ago. 63XC is a cool site, but don't be fooled...a 63" gear in the MountainousWest is a tad too tall...

Giv'er


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## mikebowyer (Mar 7, 2006)

im going to start riding singlespeed, rigid, fixed, and blindfolded.

im going to be the craziest m0thafrucka out there, and people are going to be all like "don't you need eyes on teh trail" and i'm going to look at that guy and say "n00b I am more one with the trail than you'll ever be, I don't need no stinkin' eyes I use the force"

same argument


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## xmynameisdan (Aug 16, 2006)

There's a blind guy who does downhill....

n00b.


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