# Sunrace 11-50 cassette



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

FYI SunRace Launches 11-50T Cassette!

http://singletrackworld.com/2017/03/exclusive-sunrace-launches-11-50t-cassette/

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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

crisillo said:


> FYI SunRace Launches 11-50T Cassette!
> 
> Singletrack Magazine | Exclusive! SunRace Launches 11-50T Cassette!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Old news

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s.../sunrace-11-speed-11-50-cassette-1041491.html


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

wish it came with 42/46/50 low end...


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

rideit said:


> wish it came with 42/46/50 low end...


11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42 and 50T.

Something else is going to give then. When you go to 50t there are going to be larger gaps. This cassette is not for everyone, but at least Sunrace is giving us some options. 11-40, 11-42, 11-46, and now 11-50.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I was thinking I will try it with a 34 T CR, but 34/42 is too tall for most climbing around here, which would force me into the 50 more than (I think) I would like.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

rideit said:


> wish it came with 42/46/50 low end...


It is actually the same as Eagle on the low end, and well spaced. Your wish is very narrow, nobody will ever make it. Those big cogs need a lot of teeth between them to have reasonable gaps.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

So will my SRAM X01 RD be compatible?


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

Junersun said:


> So will my SRAM X01 RD be compatible?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was actually thinking, that since the Eagle stuff is X-Actuation, just like the 11-speed MTB kit from SRAM, wouldn't an Eagle derailleur work with 11-speed cassette and 11-speed SRAM MTB shifter?

-Ed


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

EddNog said:


> I was actually thinking, that since the Eagle stuff is X-Actuation, just like the 11-speed MTB kit from SRAM, wouldn't an Eagle derailleur work with 11-speed cassette and 11-speed SRAM MTB shifter?
> 
> -Ed


Yep sorry I should have clarified, will my 11 speed X01 RD work?

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I went ahead and bought one off ebay. First ride on it today. Shifts well with m8000 and a wolf tooth link. Slight delay between 42&50 but not too bad.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Junersun said:


> Yep sorry I should have clarified, will my 11 speed X01 RD work?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I want to know, too.

Will a XX1 or XO1, non-Eagle, 11 speed RD handle an 11-50?

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Saw this on Wolf Tooth's site
_
SRAM 11 speed rear derailleurs can only handle *49t* as a max cog size._

49T GC Cog for SRAM and SunRace 11-speed ? wolftoothcomponents.com

Garbaruk seems to be making a cage for SRAM 11sp so that it can take a 50T.
_
SRAM (11-50T cassette)11-speed SRAM rear derailleur with Garbaruk rear derailleur cage (coming soon)
_
11-50T Cassette - Garbaruk Lightweight Components


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yeah, I sent the Garbaruk guys an email about their cassette a long time ago, and they told me I'd need their new cage, too. No new info on the cage for a while now. 

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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

Do you guys think an M8000 Long Cage work with the 11-50s?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

No. Definitely not.

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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

So the Garabuk or Shark cage would be required?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

crisillo said:


> FYI SunRace Launches 11-50T Cassette!
> 
> Singletrack Magazine | Exclusive! SunRace Launches 11-50T Cassette!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In a little while one will not be able to use anything else but stupidly heavy wide-range cassettes: 526 grams! More than a pound for a cassette, for a drive train that is heavier than a dual by a chunk!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Davide said:


> In a little while one will not be able to use anything else but stupidly heavy wide-range cassettes: 526 grams! More than a pound for a cassette, for a drive train that is heavier than a dual by a chunk!


I'd get a Garbaruk. Twice the cost, just under 60% of the weight.

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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

Not certain on the weight it adds, but I have been very happy with my 11 spd XT setup.

Picked up a new XT build kit for a good price, the rear D was a direct mount so I needed to pick up the knuckle to connect to hanger, found someone locally that was selling a 11 spd Goat Link, so that got added on.

94 BCD XT cranks (175mm), with 32t cog, using an 11-42 cassette, picked up the OneUp 50t Shark kit (50t cog, with cage arms and 18t cog (replacing 17t + 19t). Yes, you have to take your rear d apart to change the cage arms, but it is pretty easy to do.

Shifting into 50 takes a little longer than other shifts, but is still good and smooth. I am climbing a lot of stuff in the 2nd and 3rd gear (42t & 37T) with the 32 front and when I need to rest and spin the 50t is a great bail-out.

Of course it could be lighter, but the simplicity of the system, no dropped chains, super quiet and reasonably cheap is worth the extra bit of weight as compared to the SRAM Eagle 12 speed cost.

I mention the OneUp stuff as I believe the big difference on simply going to a 11-50 cassette with a stock Shimano 11 spd rear D is that the amount of tension on derailleur by cranking in the b-tension screw puts a lot of load on the derailleur. The One up cage arms, and perhaps the goat link, allow the 50t cog to be used with pretty much normal b-tension settings.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Davide said:


> In a little while one will not be able to use anything else but stupidly heavy wide-range cassettes: 526 grams! More than a pound for a cassette, for a drive train that is heavier than a dual by a chunk!


You really think so? If this cassette is 520 grams, but a common 2x 11-36 cassette is ~200 or more, you're at a difference of ~320 grams even if you have a really nice lightweight 11-36 cassette. An X9 (fairly common) front shifter alone is 240 grams, so now you are at an offset of 80 grams. You telling me a front derailleur, cables and 24t inner chain ring is less than 80 grams? Even if they were, it still doesn't support the big difference you are claiming. I won't even factor in the fact that many 2x11 systems are still using 11-42 cassettes.

If anything, even with this brick of a cassette, the 1x should still be equal to. Or marginally lighter.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> If anything, even with this brick of a cassette, the 1x should still be equal to. Or marginally lighter.


Maybe: the weight penalty for running a front derailleur in respect to the lightest 1x available (SRAM XX1 1042) is around 200-250 grams, depending on how many speed you are running with the dual. 500+ grams for the cassette eliminates any weight gain and one of the reasons to go 1x.

I personally think 1042, or 942, eleven speed is quite optimal for 1x. Good compromise between range, weight, and shifting performance. 1050, 1150 seems a bit silly with the absolutely huge ring and long hanging rear derailleur ... but hey: bigger is better, right?


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Davide said:


> 500+ grams for the cassette eliminates any weight gain and one of the reasons to go 1x.
> 
> I personally think 1042, or 942, eleven speed is quite optimal for 1x. Good compromise between range, weight, and shifting performance. 1050, 1150 seems a bit silly with the absolutely huge ring and long hanging rear derailleur ... but hey: bigger is better, right?


Weight saving is more of a positive side effect of 1x drivetrains. I think most people would actually still run 1x if they were indeed heavier than a 2x system.

The main purpose of this cassette is to offer a competitive product for riders how're still rocking a shimano freehub that is limited to smallest cog size of 11T and looking for a cassette that offers competitive range to Srams 10-42. Talking about 9T cogs, you're mixing XD driver cassettes with Shimano compatible cassettes. 1x12 with 10-50 cassette is the future and should be pretty common in less than five years.


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## kylerodland (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm wondering the campatibillity of the 50t with SRAM 11 speed derailleurs. I've read that it works with X1 and above. Wolf Tooth says that their 49T cog works with all SRAM drivetrains. I can't help but think that is that the upper pulley wheel isn;t low enough. Right? If the upper pulley wheel of the a GX derailleur was swapped out to a 11t or even a 10t that it would clear that 50T cog. 

Has anyone done this? Any insight?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

kylerodland said:


> I'm wondering the campatibillity of the 50t with SRAM 11 speed derailleurs. I've read that it works with X1 and above. Wolf Tooth says that their 49T cog works with all SRAM drivetrains. I can't help but think that is that the upper pulley wheel isn;t low enough. Right? If the upper pulley wheel of the a GX derailleur was swapped out to a 11t or even a 10t that it would clear that 50T cog.
> 
> Has anyone done this? Any insight?


Also interested.

Garbaruk makes a sub-300g 11-50 11s cassette. I'd love to run one but don't want to have to switch to a Shimano drivetrain plus new cage to do it.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

kylerodland said:


> I'm wondering the campatibillity of the 50t with SRAM 11 speed derailleurs. I've read that it works with X1 and above.


All Sram 1x rear derailleurs have the same geometry to enable interoperability with the cassettes, whoever says the 50T only works with X1 and above is talking BS.

I haven't tried it myself yet but am pretty sure it will work due the X-Horizon principle. Just keep an eye on chain length, too long and it won't clear the 50T cog, too short and it'll clear but bust the derailleur hanger on full suspension bikes under full compression, there might be a narrow sweet spot to hit.

The Shimano 11speed rear derailleur seems to work too but I'd still favor the Sram in this regard.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Steel Calf, I'm not doubting you, but as the saying goes, seeing is believing. 

I want to see proof that you can run a non-Eagle XX1 or XO1 RD on a 50t cog.

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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

garbaruk tried, they say 49 max


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

syl3 said:


> garbaruk tried, they say 49 max


They also said they were coming out with a cage for XX1/XO1 RDs. More than two months ago.

I want to give them my money but no word on the cage.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

syl3 said:


> garbaruk tried, they say 49 max


Yes they tried, they tried so hard, how convenient that they failed but can now sell you a special cage for that one last tooth.

Garbaruk sounds like "garbage" to me.

Remembers me on the shock pump air loss hoax to convince riders they need a better pump than the standard fox/rock shox with a special valve.


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

Steel Calf said:


> Yes they tried, they tried so hard, how convenient that they failed but can now sell you a special cage for that one last tooth.
> 
> Garbaruk sounds like "garbage" to me.
> 
> Remembers me on the shock pump air loss hoax to convince riders they need a better pump than the standard fox/rock shox with a special valve.


If memory serves me right, Wolftooth also feels that 49T is the max for SRAM.

If anyone knows for a fact that I'm wrong, please correct me.

-Ed


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Wolftooth says the Sram derailleur works with their 49T ring but that doesn't imply that 49T is the max. Goddammit it's just one tooth!!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

softbatch said:


> Do you guys think an M8000 Long Cage work with the 11-50s?


I'm using a medium cage M8000 and goat link. It works and shifts fine.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

Steel Calf said:


> Yes they tried, they tried so hard, how convenient that they failed but can now sell you a special cage for that one last tooth.


except they dont sell that cage yet.


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## Ulysses-31 (Sep 2, 2013)

Has anyone tried running one of these cassettes with a M8000 GS (med cage) derailleur? Or is a SGS (long cage) required?


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Have a 2x10 Shimano drivetrain with Sunrace 11-42 Cassette. Need much lower gearing and don't want to use less than 32t front. 

This option looks like it could work and save me $$ instead of going to Sram Eagle.
However, there seem to be too many uncertain compatibility issues with derailers and possible alignment problems with my present BB. Will need to buy too many other components to get it to work.

Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get an E-Thirteen TRS Race 11 Speed Cassette.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

grizfish said:


> Need much lower gearing and don't want to use less than 32t front.


ok you wanna keep your 32T?
Eagle: 32 / 10-50
Sunrace: 32 / 11-50

Think about it: If 32/11 is fast enough for you as you said Sram Eagle won't give you any better climbing gear either but the Sunrace solution with a Sram GX derailleur and shifter will be 1/3 of the cost!


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Steel Calf said:


> Wolftooth says the Sram derailleur works with their 49T ring but that doesn't imply that 49T is the max. Goddammit it's just one tooth!!


My friend has the 49 with sram gx and it shifts not that great, i wouldnt run the 49 or 50 on anything but shimano with the shark arm and if it still sucks the 11 speed goat as well.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

solarplex said:


> My friend has the 49 with sram gx and it shifts not that great, i wouldnt run the 49 or 50 on anything but shimano with the shark arm and if it still sucks the 11 speed goat as well.


Damn it I'm about to order the 11-50 cassette and have a Sram GX rear derailleur! Maybe better use a Shimano rear derailleur?

How did you make the GX derailleur clear the 50t cog? Shorter chain length + more b-screw?


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Pardon me, should have been more complete with my "bite the bullet" remark.

Looking for the increased range, but decided going to a huge 50t rear, from my present components would be too costly. Can get the range with the e*13 9-46 but will need to go 30t in the front with less expensive rear changes. Just didn't want to replace the 32t I already have.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Steel Calf said:


> Damn it I'm about to order the 11-50 cassette and have a Sram GX rear derailleur! Maybe better use a Shimano rear derailleur?
> 
> How did you make the GX derailleur clear the 50t cog? Shorter chain length + more b-screw?


The LBS did it and i believe b screw. So it clears and goes into the 49 fine but now with the b screw maxed its sloppy in the other cogs.

I had the same issue with my 11-42 10 speed, you can make it work with the b screw but it would only single click into the 42 you couldnt multi click into it without it locking up. I put the rad cage on and it was a bit better but then the goat link as well made it like butter.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

solarplex said:


> with the b screw maxed its sloppy in the other cogs.


that's exactly what I'm worried about. The maxed out b-Screw reduces chain wrap on all the smaller gears.

So 11-50 does not work well with a Sram 1x11 derailleur

Now the following options are on the table:

Sram 1x derailleur with 11-46
vs.
Shimano 1x derailleur with 11-50 (which does work well according to numerous reports and YouTube videos)

I could buy either combination for nearly the same price but prefer Srams shifter design

The 11-50 cassette is 16% heavier than the 11-46 for 8% more range which equals about +1/2 gear


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Steel Calf said:


> that's exactly what I'm worried about. The maxed out b-Screw reduces chain wrap on all the smaller gears.
> 
> So 11-50 does not work well with a Sram 1x11 derailleur
> 
> ...


I went to a 30t being i have the xd driver and have enough speed with the 10t. With and 11 its painfully slow even on my fatbike. I commute casually in the 11 on it in winter to the trails.

I was telling him to go to the one up mini cluster as he has dt hubs and a 11-46 shimano cassette. Then he would have 10-46 with less b screw.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I found this video showing a GX derailleur with a sunrace 11-50






doesn't look that bad?
the b-screw isn't even turned in all the way

chain looks nearly too long on the smallest cog, maybe the 11-50 ist just too extreme


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

In this thread a poster said that Hope recommends SRAM 11sp derailleurs for their 48T. I don't think a stock Shimano 11sp derailleur will take a 50T better than a SRAM. You just might be better off trying your GX derailleur. Shimano have never been that great at going past their max teeth count without some third party help.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/hope-10-44-cassette-1027297.html


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

RS VR6 said:


> In this thread a poster said that Hope recommends SRAM 11sp derailleurs for their 48T.


thanks but that's weird because all 1x Shimano derailleurs are officially compatible with a 46T cog so choosing Shimano for a 2teeth bigger cog would be more logically than choosing a Sram derailleur which was designed with a 6T smaller cog in mind.

Most videos on YouTube show a Shimano derailleur working with the 11-50 cassette, however it's unclear whether adjustments have been done on these derailleurs (b-screw, special cage) to make them compatible.

I think I'll abandon that whole 11-50 idea and just settle on the 12% lighter, 50% cheaper and with 8% less range equipped 11-46 cassette.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

All this cross compatibility stuff seems to be hit or miss and depending on your individual setups.

Wolf Tooth says that the SRAM 11sp can go up to 49T. For Shimano they recommend their derailleur cage. They do offer this 49T add on for Shimano and Sunrace cassettes. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com...cogs/products/49t-gc-cog-for-sram-and-sunrace

I think there is a good reason why there are third party aids for Shimano derailleurs, but not SRAM. You can force the 11sp Shimano derailleur to work with cogs above a 46T...but it just won't work that well. It's just like their 10sp derailleurs. You can get them to work with a 42T cog...but the shifting performance will degrade.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Steel Calf said:


> I found this video showing a GX derailleur with a sunrace 11-50
> 
> 
> 
> ...


after taking a closer look on my computer it appears as this only works because the whole derailleur is turned about 30° degrees backward by using a longer b-screw or some other modification:

at the 50T cog








at the 42T cog








at the 11T cog








So yes it works, but only be significantly reducing chain wrap on the smaller gears.

I also found this
11-50T Cassette - Garbaruk Lightweight Components









so 48T is the "tipping point" for both shimano and Sram, going further necessitates some sort of hack, either a custom cage or b-screw adjustment.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Sram 1x11 derailleurs based on the X-Horizon pinciple have a greater flexibility to cope with bigger cogsizes than Shimano has but once you hit the limit here you have to turn the whole cage around the cassettes lower vertex to gain additional clearance


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Dude shorten your chain a link at least, will work fine and be in better shape. Unless your pictures are of a long travel with heavy chain growth you can loose a link or 2 anyway.

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## pjames12 (Jan 29, 2017)

Man. Was thinking about pulling the trigger on a Sunrace 11-46t, and then I saw this and got excited about the possibility of 11-50t. But I also am running SRAM GX, so now I'm disappointed. Now I'm wondering if I should wait til someone makes some modification for my GX to work with the 11-50t or just get the 11-46t...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

That's not even 2 full teeth smaller on the chainring. So your wanting to go at least 8t more on the cassette (assuming you have a 42t right now). Just get the 46t and go 2t lower on your chainring. Problem solved vs trying to run some "hack" for the drivetrain.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

that's a good point.

28/46 is as low as 30/50 but you're loosing ~1/2 gear at the top end.










I've to say I prefer the bigger gear steps on the 11-50 cassette, on the 11-46 the jumps are getting too narrow towards the low end (36 -> 40 wtf??)

Another Question is if 28/11 is enough top speed? It's like loosing my fastest gear on my current Sram 30 / 10-42 setup


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Might as well go with the e13 9-46 and run a 28T. You get the 9 instead of the 11. Its expensive...but you pretty much get what you want...and don't have to worry about your GX derailleur not being able to take the 46T. The 9-28 is slightly faster than the 10-30.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

title of this thread is "sunrace 11-50T Cassette"

If a XD driver was possible on my rear hub I wouldn't bother with this Sunrace stuff and just buy a Sram XG1150 10-42 cassette


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Apparently...neither will work for you. So you're SOL.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

H'mmm, time to go look in the parts bin and dig out that 53t chainwheel, attach it to the side of the cassette, replace the lower pulley wheel from 13t to 15t for more chainwrap and well......

I never dreamed you would ever put chainwheel sized cassettes on a bike 30 years ago....

Carry on.

Eric


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Steel Calf said:


> title of this thread is "sunrace 11-50T Cassette"
> 
> If a XD driver was possible on my rear hub I wouldn't bother with this Sunrace stuff and just buy a Sram XG1150 10-42 cassette


Just found out that my rear hub cannot be retrofitted with an XD driver.
So, going to bite the bullet again and get a new CF wheel with better hub. Old one is from an Intense low end build. It was OK, but is alum and has compatibility issues.

I appreciate the education received from RSVR6. Some may consider his comments to be pulling this thread off topic a bit, but he introduces a very logical approach to expanding the range of a 1X.

Thanks for the other comments also. They introduce different perspectives even though some are not applicable to my component set or the terrain where I ride.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

going with a smaller chainring front doesn't expand the range, it just shifts it towards the lower gearing spectrum. If you need really low gearing wait for cheaper 1x12 groups to arrive this year.

In fact, on most full suspension bikes a smaller chainring will increase anti squat and thus amplify pedal feedback, it's better not to go below 30T as modern frames are usually optimized for 32T chainrings.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

That I could see being an issue for FS frames designed around 1x and that's the only time there is a concern with that. Not a problem on hardtail.

And I know it doesn't widen the gear range. I was just offering the simple solution if lower gearing is the main issue.

Lower cost 12 speed just means more folded cassettes and such. We've kind of hit, likely surpassed the limit of innovation using current affordable materials and having it make any form of sense. Needing range that wide 2x is a much better and more reliable solution.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

RAKC Ind said:


> Lower cost 12 speed just means more folded cassettes and such. We've kind of hit, likely surpassed the limit of innovation using current affordable materials and having it make any form of sense.


I'm not aware of any folded 12 speed cassettes so far and Srams in house testing shows that the 1x12 drivetrains actually have a better wear behavior than 1x11.

Looking back what has happened the last few years it's very unlikely that innovation will just come to a sudden stop because you say so.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Steel Calf said:


> I'm not aware of any folded 12 speed cassettes so far and Srams in house testing shows that the 1x12 drivetrains actually have a better wear behavior than 1x11.


12 speed market penetration is minuscule and is only available as a halo product. Pleb tier 12 speed is going to weigh a ton ( just like the sunrace cassette discussed here - which is almost 600 grams ) or wikk be susceptable to random self destruction. You can't cheat reality and engineering principles behind it all.



> Looking back what has happened the last few years it's very unlikely that innovation will just come to a sudden stop because you say so.


What innovation did we get in the last 30 years that was not rehashing of old ideas? Indexed shifting, dropper posts, workable rear suspension and maybe 1xX. There isn't much to 'innovate' here.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

uzurpator said:


> 12 speed market penetration is minuscule and is only available as a halo product.


I understand that 1x12 is just too expensive and thus a "halo product" for you people in eastern Europe but that doesn't count for the wealthier part of the western world. Of course you wanna talk it down because you can't have it.

I see enough riders with 1x12 drivetrains already and it should be a mainstream product here within 2 years when cheaper X1/GX groups are released.

To stay a little bit objective here, the sunrace 11-50 cassette is 519g which is clearly NOT "close to 600g" and even lighter than a Sram NX 11-42 cassette.

Talking about innovation,
1x11, 1x12, Boost, 27.5, 27.5+, Fatbikes, Pike, dropper posts...
probably all existed 20 years ago like you pointed out in another thread and nothing has really changed or was innovated here, you have that very opinion and I'm not gonna argue with you.


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

Having the latest and greatest is a pipe dream. 

Something new and better will always come out. 

If people can afford a 1x12 all the more power to them. 

I see no benefit for my local trails so I'm sticking with a 1x10. 

I would be interested with a 1x12 with closer spaced gearing. Like a 1x12 10-44


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Each to their own. I prefer going to a 9-46. Not just for a wider range, but the small rear tooth cogs only get used on the way to or from the trails, where they are definitely needed in my situation. It could cause me to go for a smaller front ring, but that's not an issue because Push custom tuned my 11-6 shock to perfection. But that's me. I'm just an old fart, learning to customize a bicycle for my own needs. Went to a 1X11 to simplify matters and reduce handlebar clutter and real estate. I don't want more gears and special chains and other special things in order for a system to be usable.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

1x anything isn't innovation by any stretch. I'm not saying innovation is going to stop but there hasn't been any true innovation in drivetrains in forever except that of the electronic systems.

Removing front rings is backwards, single front ring dates back to when pedals were moved off the front wheel.

Truly what innovation is there in making chain links and cassette cogs thinner so you can cram more back there??? Nothing that takes more than grade school knowledge is needed for that. The only thing becoming better is the more affordable costs of the higher end alloys needed to make the system affordable and last a respectable amount of time. No innovation by the bike industry done there.

Innovations in tires have made fat bikes much more desirable. Innovations in suspension design have made riding more fun for us. Boost spacing isn't innovation, that's just common sense matter, wider tires and more supported wheels require wider hub spacing.

As for srams claim of better wear characteristics vs 11 speed, sorry but that's a funny point. That was a "marketing koolaid" point for 11 speed. Do some digging around here. Every point you make was made for 11 speed a couple years ago 

As for the folded cogs, someone linked several threads, posts and pics I think earlier in this thread of people folding the big cog.

No the small independent companies are the ones doing the actual innovation. They are the ones that started this entire 1x wide range craze. They made the extended cogs, they designed the derailleur cage changes needed for make it work and so on. Sram and shimano have done NOTHING. Hope, absolute black, wolf tooth, etc, they did all the innovating to fill the needs of riders. Sram and shimano saw the money to be made and didn't like he small companies taking it all. So now we get new drivetrains with every changing compatibility issues.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Srams 1x11 X-Dome cassettes do have a better wear characteristic than previous 10 speed cassette designs, in 90% of the cases it's the 42T aluminium cog that wears prematurely and can easily be exchanged to double the lifetime of the cassette.

Saying the cogs on a 1x12 drivetrain must be thinner and thus be prone to folding is both factually wrong and your personal guess because it's the spacing that's changed, you obviously don't know anything about the development that was done by dozens of Sram engineers in Schweinfurt over the past years and thus cannot value any of their work or understand the significance it poses for ordinary riders out there.

Nevermind, this thread is about the Sunrace cassette, a heavy low budget wide range cassette for all the suckers out there that are stuck with a Shimano free hub and need more range.

Go blow your unfunded phantasies about the evil, non innovative Sram company somewhere else, along with Shimanos "highly successfull" electronic shifting, yes electronics, that's what we eventually all needed on our bikes.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Steel Calf said:


> I understand that 1x12 is just too expensive and thus a "halo product" for you people in eastern Europe but that doesn't count for the wealthier part of the western world. Of course you wanna talk it down because you can't have it.


I was suspecting you are just trolling, now I am convinced.
Sure hun, that's the deal.



> I see enough riders with 1x12 drivetrains already and it should be a mainstream product here within 2 years when cheaper X1/GX groups are released.


Anegdotal evidence is anegdotal. SRAM's product portfolio is structured in a classic halo-mainstream-budget fashion and halo products are meant for a specific, narrow band of people.

Eagle _is_ a halo product.



> To stay a little bit objective here, the sunrace 11-50 cassette is 519g which is clearly NOT "close to 600g" and even lighter than a Sram NX 11-42 cassette.


I double checked and in fact - I am in error here. The first release I read about this cassette stated 591 grams as weight. Obviously a typo. 520 grams is still obscenely heavy.

However. Jump from XX1 to eagle XX1 increased cassette weight by 33%. Expect similar increase in mainstream cassettes.

This chinese edition full steel 11-50 cassette is 660grams: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZTT...32812608548.html?spm=2114.01010208.8.9.pE0mUQ



> Talking about innovation,
> 1x11, 1x12, Boost, 27.5, 27.5+, Fatbikes, Pike, dropper posts...
> probably all existed 20 years ago like you pointed out in another thread and nothing has really changed or was innovated here, you have that very opinion and I'm not gonna argue with you.


Not a speck of innovation there - except for droppers. Boost especially is not an innovation.

In my times trolling meant something.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Steel Calf said:


> title of this thread is "sunrace 11-50T Cassette"
> 
> If a XD driver was possible on my rear hub I wouldn't bother with this Sunrace stuff and just buy a Sram XG1150 10-42 cassette


I figured it out. Budget wide range shimano free hub sram 11-50.

Gx 11 speed shifter. Gx eagle 12 speed derailleur and the sunrace 11-50 cassette. Boom.

I figure as a 11 speed gx is $150 cnd a 12 speed shouldnt be too much more.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

solarplex said:


> I figured it out.
> 
> Gx 11 speed shifter. Gx eagle 12 speed derailleur and the sunrace 11-50 cassette. Boom.
> 
> I figure...


yeah you figured out a lot

I wasn't aware that the Sram Eagle 12speed derailleur is compatible with a Sram 11 speed shifter, as cog pitch and derailleur ratio are both different on the 12 speed group. Theoretically if both are shrunken proportionally it could lead to exact same amount of cable pull and thus shifter compatability but I doubt that as it would be a huge coincidence.

Maybe come back again once you figured that out too.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Steel Calf said:


> yeah you figured out a lot
> 
> I wasn't aware that the Sram Eagle 12speed derailleur is compatible with a Sram 11 speed shifter, as cog pitch and derailleur ratio are both different on the 12 speed group. Theoretically if both are shrunken proportionally it could lead to exact same amount of cable pull and thus shifter compatability but I doubt that as it would be a huge coincidence.
> 
> Maybe come back again once you figured that out too.


Aa far as i know the shifter dictates the movement of the rear derailleur 100%. The shifter should index the derailleur the same as if it was 11 speed.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

did you even read what you just quoted?

The Eagle chain is narrower because cog pitch of the cassette is smaller.

derailleur shift ratio * cable pull = cog pitch

so if cog pitch is 10% smaller, derailleur shift ratio has to be 10% smaller too for giving exact same cable pull in the shifter. Possible but not very probable. Maybe you should educate yourself a little before drawing premature conclusions here.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Steel Calf said:


> did you even read what you just quoted?
> 
> The Eagle chain is narrower because cog pitch of the cassette is smaller.
> 
> ...


Stop spreading FUD. As per SRAM both 11 and 12 speed 1x groups use X-Actuation pull ratio - so you can run Eagle mech on 11 speed cassette with 11 speed shifter.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

uzurpator said:


> both 11 and 12 speed 1x groups use X-Actuation pull ratio


so you're 100% sure it'll work just based on a single marketing term given by the very same company that equally says that eagle "is not backwards compatible in any way with previous 11 speed drivetrains" ?

look I'm not saying it doesn't work either as I don't know but I wouldn't order a 220$ derailleur based on an educated guess


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Steel Calf:

And a sram gx 10 speed mountain derailleur isn't supposed to work with sram Rival road shifters according to sram. But guess what, they work flawlessly together.

If you actually read up on Sram specifications, x-actuation is the derailleur. All x-actuation derailleurs are cross compatible for mountain. Just like the previous "exact actuation" systems. This is why there is some cross compatibility. The shifter completely determines from there how far the derailleur travels both per shift and total available shifts. If shifter is not for x-actuation then it won't have correct shift points. But speeds have 0 to do with jt.

Would you please stop with the very rude replies to people's posts that have vast knowledge of these matters versus what marketing all manufacturers use because they don't want you to mix and match, they want you to buy a whole group set.

I have sram on 2 bikes. And Sram will straight up tell you that 11 speed road and mountain are not compatible with each other. Which they are not, 11 speed road is exact actuation, mountain is x-actuation. But they won't tell you that speed don't matter it depends on the version on. Exact actuation is cross compatible regardless of speeds or mountain vs road. Same with x-actuation. I'm staring at 2 bikes that say your posts are incorrect and the others like UZ are 100% correct.

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I think it would be interesting to know if the new Sram 1x12 got indeed the exact same derailleur ratio as 1x11, however a Shimano derailleur costs about 1/5 and is prooven to be compatible with the sunrace 11-50 cassette so why bother in the first place?

and yes I'm aware about exact-actuation cross compatability but we're getting off topic here and it doesn't say anything about 11/12speed interoperability either


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

It's x-horizon x-actuation system so yes they are cross compatible. Just have to use the proper shifter that matches cassette speeds.

I'm trying to find the chart again (can't remember where I saved it) its how I sorted out making sram Rival hoods work for an extended mountain cassette to be 1x on my road bike. It shows each sram and shimano RD pull ratios. But yes it's there and yes the cross compatibility is there for the RD.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

http://www.bike.bikegremlin.com/2016/05/18/bicycle-rear-derailleur-compatibility/

Here you go, scroll down to sram derailluers. Mtb 11 and 12 speed for x-actuation

Still trying to find the full chart...

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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

RAKC Ind said:


> Still trying to find the full chart...
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


I'm only aware of this which is the most comprehensive article covering the topic and helped me a great deal when upgrading an older roadbike
http://blog.artscyclery.com/science...ce-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/

but it doesn't say anything about 1x12 derailleur ratio and I haven't seen it anywhere yet, according to Sram cable pull of the 1x12 shifter is less which would offset the tighter cog spacing and indicates a possible 1x11/1x12 derailleur cross compatability but wouldn't bet my money on it either

If this works and a cheaper 1x12 sram derailleur was available I could mix it with the sunrace 11-50...


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd rather see a 10-46 xD driver cassette. Better gear spacing, weighs less, no stupid derailleur hacks, less chain length/slap and more gear range. You can do this with a Sunrace (or Shimano) 11-46 and the OneUp 10T shark cluster, but you need a DT or Hope hub.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

That's the exact same way it's been done with sram for a long time. They had 1:1 which was 7-8-9 speed (just change the shifter) then exact actuation for 10s mtb which is also used for their 11s road as well.

Sram doesn't want people to mix group sets so they won't openly tell you. But if you research the "technology" for the rear derailleur it's cable pull ratio never changes regardless of speeds. Instead it's literally nothing more than a change in cable pull or gaps between clicks inside the shifters. All it takes is a change in "wheel" (don't know correct term) inside the shifter. Add an extra notch and put them slightly closer together.

To be honest they aim for people like you (no disrespect at all, takes a lot of research to figure this all out and those that know are the minority by far) that have no idea. So they can run high profits with nothing more than a change in the notches inside the shifter and change in the name printed on t and the derailleur. Only cost they have for retooling and designing is the new cassette.

And two things will always hold true which is why they can brag about "better wear":

Any cog (front or rear) will last longer by having more teeth engaged. So a 50t cog will out last a 20t cog (when materials are the same) every time.

Tighter spacing of the cassette reducing lateral forces exerted on the cogs as chain is able to stay closer to a straight line. And since the extreme ends of a cassette are used the least the center cogs are closer to center chainline.

One thing Sram has beat everyone on is the chains designed around 1x systems. Since they are well engineered to flex laterally better than other chains it reduces stress and wear on the drivetrain. Also why they are the "fix" more often than not for back pedal chain dropping issues. Better shifting characteristics under lateral load and designed to flex laterally with less force.

Sram is good but overrated. They don't have years and years behind their designs. They simply we're the first to make product lines filling a demand that only the independent small companies where doing first. Then decided adding gears to increase range while maintaining the closer gear spacing of 10s systems instead of the larger gaps and funky shifting issues of doing "hacks"

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## pjames12 (Jan 29, 2017)

Okay, I'm trying to sort through all this. I am currently running a SunRace 11-42 cassette, GX RD, X1 shifter, GX chain.

It is believed in this thread (based on X-actuation) that I could replace the SunRace 11-42 with the SunRace 11-50, replace the GX RD with an Eagle X01 RD, and it will work with the 11sp X1 shifter I'm currently running?

IF that is the case, what chain would I need to run? Are the Eagle RDs only compatible with 12sp chains? If that is the case, would the 12sp chain work with an 11sp cassette (I think it would, but just another issue). 

I'm perhaps willing to give this a shot and report back IF all I need is the cassette and RD. If not, I'm just going to get the SunRace 11-46.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

if there's a XD driver for you hub available I'd go that route, the 11-50 solution offers only 8% more range over the 10-42 but is more expensive and heavier


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Steel Calf said:


> if there's a XD driver for you hub available I'd go that route, the 11-50 solution offers only 8% more range over the 10-42 but is more expensive and heavier


The way you phrased this is very misleading. 454% gear range vs 420% gear range is a pretty big and noticeable difference.


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## pjames12 (Jan 29, 2017)

I have Shimano hubs, so no XD driver unfortunately. So the debate for me is basically if the increase in range gained by 11-50 is worth having to buy a different RD (and it potentially not even working) instead of just going 11-46.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Lindahl said:


> The way you phrased this is very misleading. 454% gear range vs 420% gear range is a pretty big and noticeable difference.


saying 11-50 has +34% range is what sounds misleading to me when you effectively only gain 8% which equals +1/2 gear! Not a big difference IMO

same wit the difference between a 11-46 and 10-42 cassette which is only 0,4% in range yet people think it's much more


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Steel Calf said:


> saying 11-50 has +34% range is what sounds misleading to me when you effectively only gain 8% which equals +1/2 gear! Not a big difference IMO
> 
> same wit the difference between a 11-46 and 10-42 cassette which is only 0,4% in range yet people think it's much more


I'd suggest stating the gear ratio range instead.

And 8% is definitely more than half a gear. A full gear is ~11%. 8% is very noticeable when climbing.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

In the road world "a gear" is somewhere around 8-10%. In the mtb "a gear" is closer to 15-20%.

42 to 50 is a 16% difference - so, a single gear.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

on a 10-42 cassette with 420% range one gear jump on average = 15.4%

sunrace 11-50 cassette = 16.3%
eagle 1x12 10-50 = 15.8%
Shimano 11-36 = 14.1%


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> In the road world "a gear" is somewhere around 8-10%. In the mtb "a gear" is closer to 15-20%.
> 
> 42 to 50 is a 16% difference - so, a single gear.


Your missing the small cog though. 10 vs 11t, so changes the range of the cassette overall.

4t is about equal to 2 teeth on the front (for a generic and simple way to get an idea) but the bigger you go in the rear the less of a difference you feel. A 36 to a 40 is more noticeable than a 42 to a 46 at least IME. How much that actually holds true I don't know, just know what my legs and lungs tell me.

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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

RAKC Inc.

I'm not missing anything 

Humans respond to relative difference between gears, not absolute differences. That is why most cassettes are composed to have somewhat equal relative size differences between neighbouring cogs. This is called, as I recall 'logarithimc progression'. Obviously cogs can't have fractional sizes, so it is never perfect, but it is very well approximated.

That is why 36->40 feels like a less more of change then 42->46. In the first case there is 10% difference, in the second case it is 8%.

In the same vein = 10->12 is 20% difference - this is massive. 42->50 is just 16%, so it feels closer together.


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Steel Calf said:


> on a 10-42 cassette with 420% range one gear jump on average = 15.4%
> 
> sunrace 11-50 cassette = 16.3%
> eagle 1x12 10-50 = 15.8%
> Shimano 11-36 = 14.1%


Spew numbers all you want but 36 to 40 is 11%. This is a huge jump when I'm climbing and makes a pretty big difference in what I'm able to climb.

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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Your missing the small cog though. 10 vs 11t, so changes the range of the cassette overall.
> 
> 4t is about equal to 2 teeth on the front (for a generic and simple way to get an idea) but the bigger you go in the rear the less of a difference you feel. A 36 to a 40 is more noticeable than a 42 to a 46 at least IME. How much that actually holds true I don't know, just know what my legs and lungs tell me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


I do my own mix and match cassettes and have tried many different combinations. Your observation is consistent with my experience. I have consistently found is that I prefer closer ratios in the higher gears (smaller rear cogs) and wider % spacing in the lower gears. In the lower gears, you've got more torque multiplication and less wind resistance, so acceleration is faster and can quickly recover from a change in cadence.

I do find that an 11-12 shift up top is really nice, especially when running a big chainring. When you are in a high gear at a relatively steady speed and battling the wind, a big % drop can be killer. Low speeds not so much. For that reason I generally go with a progressive spacing with bigger % changes in the lower gears.


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## Steisak (Jun 3, 2017)

For one year i have run the xt 11-46 cassette with the one up 50T kit including the Cage and absolut Black oval 34 up front that would act like an 36. This setup is awesome, the big gaps between the sprockets just help you Shift fast up and down. I allso opened my m8000 trigger and cut out the stopper so that it would Shift two steps at a time. Yes it could be done in these too, like the old ones . The Cage along with the shimano cassette makes this the most crisp skifting bike i have ever ridden. I save 150g over the 2x11. My cassette is allso 500g

The Cage is a must for the chrisp shifting, the distance from the jockeywheel to the small cogs would be too Great and make for a finnicky setup. It would be bad, been there done that.

9 - 42 would be the same as this 11-50 range.

Sheldon Brown has this gearcalculator I use to compare different cogs.

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

pjames12 said:


> It is believed in this thread (based on X-actuation) that I could replace the SunRace 11-42 with the SunRace 11-50, replace the GX RD with an Eagle X01 RD, and it will work with the 11sp X1 shifter I'm currently running?





solarplex said:


> Gx 11 speed shifter. Gx eagle 12 speed derailleur and the sunrace 11-50 cassette. Boom.
> 
> I figure as a 11 speed gx is $150 cnd a 12 speed shouldnt be too much more.


Just wanted to report back that we have now tested it and a Sram 1x12 derailleur indeed works with a 11speed sunrace 11-50 cassette and Sram 11 speed shifter. Sram kept the derailleur ratio with its 12 speed groups and is working with lesser cable pull in the 12 speed shifter. I find this decision a bit irritating as it worsens the shifting ratio and makes the setup of these new 12speed groups more sensible to alterations in cable tension.

Unfortunately an affordable Sram GX 12 speed derailleur won't be available for the next two months and if you're on a 1x11 Sram 10-42 setup right now a full 12 speed upgrade is the better solution as the 11-50 doesn't fit on the XD driver and only sports 8% more range.

So the number of people for whom this combination actually makes sense is quite small.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

It works for everyone that doesn't have an XD driver though. That's a HUGE number.

Truly it doesn't matter if pull ratio was changed at derailleur or not the cable issues wouldn't be any different. They have already added a ridiculous pulley to the RD. A lot more to deal with than cable tension issues which is going to be there on 11s or 12s. Systems are already getting insanely tight on tolerances.

Your starting to see why going more cogs in the rear is a bad idea. 11s is already touchy, 12s more so.

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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Good discussion guys!

Many thanks to steel calf and RAKC Ind. 

Parts are on the way. Will let you know how my setup works out.


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## MegaTega (Oct 23, 2007)

*SunRace 50t with a GX DR and Absolute Black 32t Oval - Works Great*

After reading the discussions on various threads about whether or not the Sunrace 50t Cassette will work with GX and not finding any definitive answers, unless I just missed them, and a lot of neigh sayers about it. I went for it and purchased it and an Absolute Black 32t Boost Oval for my Devinci Hendrix 27.5+ Boost FS bike. It all went on without an issue - well I had already replaced the rear hub to a Hope Pro4 Shimano freehub. Put it all on and got a new KMC 11 speed chain with 118 links. Removed 2 links from the chain, backed the B screw on the GX DR all the way out and it Shifts smooth. Loving it...


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

MegaTega said:


> backed the B screw on the GX DR all the way out and it Shifts smooth. Loving it...


Thank you for your contribution but having the b-screw turned all the way in is not what I call an optimal solution for just another 8% gear jump compared to a 46T cog

You have an interesting upgrade path though, the upcoming 12speed Sram GX derailleur has got the same shifting ratio and will thus work with a 11speed cassette and shifter


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## MegaTega (Oct 23, 2007)

Yep.... but for me that 8% gain made a difference since I upgraded to the 32t front cog/50t cassette from a 28t front cog/46t cassette it was more about going faster(for me) with a similar effort/feel - even if it is in my head. Which I was going for. Regardless of the percentage increase, it works and I wanted to share the fact as others out there may come across this.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Interesting. So you gained one top speed gear (+15%) but lost one third of a climbing gear (-5%)

I intend to run something in the middle, 30 / 11-46


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## MegaTega (Oct 23, 2007)

Well, I'm going to see as it's a 32t oval which according to AB feels like a 30t with the power of a 34t. I'll find out by testing it on some long climbs and see how the legs do. If it's too much I'll drop to the 30t oval and if that doesn't work I'll throw the 28t back on and see if I can climb a tree  LOL


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

Slightly off topic, but I think the solution is a 10-46T cassette, which no one seems to make. I don't need/want the inefficiency of a 9T (ethirteen), but do want 46T instead of 48 or 50T, so I can still use my XT GS derailleur. That would yield 460% range and be perfect for 1x11. The whole setup would be lighter as the cassette is smaller than a 50T, there's no need for a larger derailleur cage, and I could keep the 30T front ring because of the 10 instead of 11T cog.


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

SikeMo said:


> Slightly off topic, but I think the solution is a 10-46T cassette, which no one seems to make. I don't need/want the inefficiency of a 9T (ethirteen), but do want 46T instead of 48 or 50T, so I can still use my XT GS derailleur. That would yield 460% range and be perfect for 1x11. The whole setup would be lighter as the cassette is smaller than a 50T, there's no need for a larger derailleur cage, and I could keep the 30T front ring because of the 10 instead of 11T cog.


Exactly. Sunrace or XT plus hope/dtswiss hubs plus oneup shark cluster can make 10-46, but it'd be nice to see an xd version of it for the other hubs. I usually wear out my 11T long before other gears, so being able to replace the shark cluster for $45 would be sweet.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

I wasn't aware of the OneUp shark cluster. Nice interim option.


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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

http://ingrid.bike/prodotto/46t10/

Italian made 10-46, anyone? A bit too spendy and I'd like to see a review of shifting performance.

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## blady74 (Jun 12, 2017)

Hi,
Is possible (with success)- in outline Sram 1x12 derailleur, 11speed sunrace 11-50 cassette and Sram 11 speed shifter- change trigger shifter to road double tap shifter.
Thanks in advance. 
Regards


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

No, double tap 11 speed only works with 10 speed mountain derailleur. 11-50 won't work as 10 speed derailleur won't work with the 50t.

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## blady74 (Jun 12, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> No, double tap 11 speed only works with 10 speed mountain derailleur. 11-50 won't work as 10 speed derailleur won't work with the 50t.


Thanks a lot. 
So, trigger shifter pull ratio is not equel to double tap shifter pull ratio (_I have got SRAM double tap 10 speed with SRAM 10 speed mountain derailleur and it works fine_).
Regards.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

SikeMo said:


> Ingrid | Cassette 46T10
> 
> Italian made 10-46, anyone? A bit too spendy and I'd like to see a review of shifting performance.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


That thing is made of aluminum man...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

thesmokingman said:


> That thing is made of aluminum man...


So is the high end sram cassettes.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> So is the high end sram cassettes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No. The only part of them that is AL is the biggest cog.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> No. The only part of them that is AL is the biggest cog.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I read something about certain ones being one big piece of aluminum.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> I read something about certain ones being one big piece of aluminum.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


They are one big piece of steel with an aluminum cog press fitted to them.

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## SikeMo (Mar 17, 2013)

I guess that's why it's so light, but durability at that price?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

SikeMo said:


> I guess that's why it's so light, but durability at that price?


Full alu cassettes are not known for their durability.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Hi,

Does anyone know if the recently released One Up 10-12-14/10-13-15 11-Speed Cluster , designed for Shimano 11-42 (not even the 11-46 Shimano cassette is mentioned within their compatibility range, although it should work), has compatibility with a Sunrace 11-46 cassette (or perhaps even 11-50)? Used with SunRace 11-46, it would render a decent 460% range, without the weight penalty of the 11-50 (60g though). I came across only one review, found inside an online-shop:

"One thing puzzles me about this - why is it aimed at 11 speed? If I had an 11 speed groupset with my DT swiss hub I'd have fitted a Sram 10-42 cassette by now. So I've fitted this to 10 speed - here with Sunrace 11-42 cassette. The shift ramps don't quite line up, although 15-18 retains the same step between cogs which may help? One up do offer a complicated way to build a 10 speed cassette, which is their 18t to replace 17&19 in the XT 11 speed cassette - starts to get expensive though! Unless this fitting becomes a bit more standard, with whole cassettes available I expect I've headed down a moderately expensive dead end. NB I can't measure any difference in cog spacing between 10 speed and 11 speed, but may need slim spacer over whole cassette? I note the centre nut on this unit doesn't have the usual serrated anti-slip arrangement, so not sure if it will stay tight."

Has anyone tried this OneUp upgrade with the 11-46 Sunrace? Any thoughts?

Thank you!


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## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Alex.Grecu said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know if the recently released One Up 10-12-14/10-13-15 11-Speed Cluster , designed for Shimano 11-42 (not even the 11-46 Shimano cassette is mentioned within their compatibility range, although it should work), has compatibility with a Sunrace 11-46 cassette (or perhaps even 11-50)? Used with SunRace 11-46, it would render a decent 460% range, without the weight penalty of the 11-50 (60g though). I came across only one review, found inside an online-shop:
> 
> ...


I don't know why it wouldn't be. Spacing is standardized and the cogs on the Sunrace are separated in that range.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Lindahl, thank you for the answer.

I will present some ideas, please take into account my pure mechanical experience with these issues equates 0, so anything I speak, I do it out of pure theory and presumptions.

What combination would you find more favorable?

1. A SunRace 11-46 cassette, with added 10t cluster from OneUp, resulting in an 10-46 cassette. Here in Europe it will cost 140 euro, cassette + 11-14 cogs; cluster cogs have no weight penalty; derailleur x01 11sp., GX 11 sp. shifter (I will have them, almost new, at a very decent price, x01 price comparable to the GX eagle rear der);

2. A SunRace 11-50 cassette, GX Eagle rear derailleur (new), gx 11 sp. shifter (cassette 100 eur, GX Rear 100 eur, for comparison).

1st variant has as advantages (theoretically, at least): 100g lighter than the Eagle setup, shorter cage less prone to damage, taken as granted that the cluster will work with the Sunrace casette, bigger range as well (460%); around 30 euro more expensive though;

- a additional issue would be: 30t or 28t; how much would a 28t REALLY affect the antisquat etc? I'm aware it's dependable on linkage design, CS lenght etc.

2nd variant, 100g heavier, lesser range (454% - neglectable difference with 
no. 1); future proof (future upgrade to 12x possible, perhaps when 11-50 wears out?), around 30 euro cheaper; same as no. 1 - all granted, that the GX Eagle indeed works with 11 speed shifter (will take RAKC Ind's and SteelCalf's statements as granted, and as only reliable sources - can't afford to experiment using my own budget).

Which do you see as the better option? Thank you!

P.S. Of course I run a Shimano Freehub.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If you already have a SRAM 11s RD, get a new Garbaruk RD cage when they come out. 

And, they make a light (300g) 11-50, 11s cassette for a reasonable price.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Le Duke said:


> They are one big piece of steel with an aluminum cog press fitted to them.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


None of mine are steel. Aluminum spiders with steel cogs except the big one. Both sunrace and shimano. Sram went steel core?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

300 miles on mine, so far so good. Running a m8000 with goat link.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you for the feedback? Has the shifting in the 42 and 50 cog improved? Do you run a mid cage RD? Thank you!

P.S. Any backpedal issues in the larger cogs?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Alex.Grecu said:


> Thank you for the feedback? Has the shifting in the 42 and 50 cog improved? Do you run a mid cage RD? Thank you!
> 
> P.S. Any backpedal issues in the larger cogs?


Yeah, shifts well. Take your time setting it up, and tighten when the new cable stretches. I don't have backpedaling issues, which I'm surprised. Its on a Canfield Riot, short stays and not boost.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm using a medium cage M8000 and goat link. It works and shifts fine.


Is that the regular goatlink or the goatlink 11 your using? Reason I ask is because I want to try this cassette when I upgrade fully to 11 speed and am ordering a med cage M7000 but already have the original goatlink. Thanks.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

noose said:


> Is that the regular goatlink or the goatlink 11 your using? Reason I ask is because I want to try this cassette when I upgrade fully to 11 speed and am ordering a med cage M7000 but already have the original goatlink. Thanks.


Goatlink 11


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Cerberus75 said:


> Goatlink 11


Okay I see the cassette calls for a SGS/long cage so I'll get one of those instead. Hard to find them in M7000 so I will probably order the M8000 SGS. Thanks


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Here is the sunrace derailleur compatibility chart in case anyone is interested. Odd they don't include the mid cage GS derailleurs as they work for many of the listed cassette options. https://www.ison-distribution.com/uploads/sunracecompatablitychart.jpg


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

noose said:


> Here is the sunrace derailleur compatibility chart


That chart is pretty confusing. The Sram X1 11speed derailleur is supposed to work with 11-50 cassette, the GX unsure and the NX doesn't work? Aren't all Sram 1x derailleur supposed to have the same detailleur geometry??

Why include no Shimano GS derailleurs?
They do have the same pulley offset and even enough capacity for the biggest 11-50 cassette

If this is an official sunrace chart they should get their **** together and try it out themselves instead of putting question marks in the colum. I mean they want to sell the cassettes so give us the information!


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

SikeMo said:


> Slightly off topic, but I think the solution is a 10-46T cassette, which no one seems to make. I don't need/want the inefficiency of a 9T (ethirteen), but do want 46T instead of 48 or 50T, so I can still use my XT GS derailleur. That would yield 460% range and be perfect for 1x11. The whole setup would be lighter as the cassette is smaller than a 50T, there's no need for a larger derailleur cage, and I could keep the 30T front ring because of the 10 instead of 11T cog.


I asked sram about that for gx and x1 and leave eagle as xo and xx1 and they then released eagle gx.

10-46 sram cassettes would be awesome. I would run a 32T and have the speed I want for gravel grinding and fireroads and still climb. Also lighter than the GX eagle cassette too. (I run a 30t with 10-42 X1)

If only someone would make one with an xd driver. All steel. Replaceable 46t alum cog....around a gx cassette cost.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I don't know if it was actually answered earlier, too much bickering about who knows more, but I just swapped out the my X0-1 for the SR 50t cassette and it works fine with X01 RD. The last pic is the B-screw bottomed out witch is too much. I used a new xx1 chain at 112 links. Had a little problem dialing in the shifting perfectly, but I'm pretty sure the hanger is a little bent and waiting for a park tool to align it properly. :thumbsup:


































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like a Sram GX with 11-50 cassette?

It would be interesting to know how you made this work!

As you don't say a lot maybe you can post pictures of smallest gear + pulley clearance (already done), biggest gear, b-screw setting


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Yep, bent RD hanger! Got the tool, all tuned up and shifting clean and crisp. Very quiet also, once all is aligned.

































Third pick is the B-screw, and it's not bottomed out at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## B.Colett (Feb 26, 2012)

Do you have any information or pictures of what you modified to make the shimano shifter trigger dual click instead of single? I opened up my XTR 11 speed shifter and couldnt see any stopper to remove.
Thanks!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Are you using your thumb or index finger shifting. Double click only works with using your thumb for all of your shifting. And no mods needed to do it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## B.Colett (Feb 26, 2012)

Steisak said:


> For one year i have run the xt 11-46 cassette with the one up 50T kit including the Cage and absolut Black oval 34 up front that would act like an 36. This setup is awesome, the big gaps between the sprockets just help you Shift fast up and down. I allso opened my m8000 trigger an cut out the stopper so that it would Shift two steps at a time. Yes it could be done in these too, like the old ones . The Cage along with the shimano cassette makes this the most crisp skifting bike i have ever ridden. I save 150g over the 2x11. My cassette is allso 500g


See steisak's post on the lower/bottom of page 1 of this thread. He describes modifying his M8000 shifter to make the index finger shifting double click. I know the thumb does this but when I am riding rough trail the index finger is a better option to double click. Shimano does the weirdest things..


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

B.Colett said:


> Do you have any information or pictures of what you modified to make the shimano shifter trigger dual click instead of single? I opened up my XTR 11 speed shifter and couldnt see any stopper to remove.
> Thanks!


Here is one of the threads on making the M8000 multirelease in both directions.
http://forums.mtbr.com/shimano/xt8000-1x11-rear-shifter-multirelease-only-works-one-way-998311.html


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

In the smallest cog you are "all in", I'd be suprised if you didn't lose your chain often.

On my Hendrix I'm running a AB 26t oval and a Sunrace 11-46, it runs perfectly and I've never lost my chain even at the park.

You should check out the Hendrix thread on Devinci, good info there on "overshocking" the Hendrix. I'm running a longer stroke DB Inline, increased rear travel from 110mm to 125mm, only cost $300. Combine the increased rear travel with a 130-140mm travel fork and you got a fine little trail rocket.

Honestly, with Eagle GX running $500 for a complete groupo, I'd go there if I needed more range.

BTW, I had a bent tooth on one of my Sunrace cassettes (got four), an inside cog, didn't strike anything. I believe it was due to shifting under power, so be careful with these budget cassettes.



MegaTega said:


> After reading the discussions on various threads about whether or not the Sunrace 50t Cassette will work with GX and not finding any definitive answers, unless I just missed them, and a lot of neigh sayers about it. I went for it and purchased it and an Absolute Black 32t Boost Oval for my Devinci Hendrix 27.5+ Boost FS bike. It all went on without an issue


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## Herpnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

I currently run a 30/ 11-46 Sunrace with a GX set up and I love it. 

Now my brother wants to swap his 2x 22/36 11-36 to a 1x with the same range and this cassette seemed to be a good starting point. From what I read here can I confirm that I have to go SRAM and even the long cage Shimano derailleur wont cut it with out modification? 

Thank you MegaTega for confirming this works with a GX drivetrain


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## B.Colett (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm using a 11-50T garbaruk cassette with their shimano cage mod. From what I read the long cage shimano will go up to 48 or maybe 49T but not 50. After modding my mid cage XTR to super long cage, I think the shimano long cage wouldn't pull all the extra loose chain in, then with a maxed out B tension to compensate, it would shift horribly also. Mine isn't maxed out, and slightly more turned in B caused some pretty poor mid cassette shifting. Now it's very good. Still tweaking it. Overall this cassette works great and if you haven't bought sunrace yet I'd recommend it, save half a lb.. Maybe do the double click shifter mod on your shimano shifters too.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

The Garbaruk site now has XD cassettes in 10-46, 10-48, and 10-50. I'm thankful for forums like this because otherwise I would have never known about this brand or their products. Pretty awesome especially since they're also offering the derailleur cage extension for a nominal fee. 

If I were to run a 10-48 OR a 10-50 along with a corresponding derailleur cage item, do you guys think the XTR or X01 is a better derailleur to deal with the range?


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> If I were to run a 10-48 OR a 10-50 along with a corresponding derailleur cage item, do you guys think the XTR or X01 is a better derailleur to deal with the range?


Sram 11 speed derailleur. Their derailleur, cassette and shifter design is clearly superior to current Shimanos 11 speed offerings. The Sram derailleur can take bigger hits without getting destroyed, the shifter is faster both up and down shifting and the cassette is lighter. The only reason left for Shimano is pricing IMO


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Steel Calf said:


> Sram 11 speed derailleur. Their derailleur, cassette and shifter design is clearly superior to current Shimanos 11 speed offerings. The Sram derailleur can take bigger hits without getting destroyed, the shifter is faster both up and down shifting and the cassette is lighter. The only reason left for Shimano is pricing IMO


......but I'm referring to the Garbaruk cassette, not the SRAM cassette. 
Unless you were just referring to the fluency in general?


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

the Gabaruk cassette is based on the Sram cassette design, otherwise it wouldn't fit the XD Driver body


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Steel Calf said:


> the Gabaruk cassette is based on the Sram cassette design, otherwise it wouldn't fit the XD Driver body


:thumbsup:
I was leaning X01 because I do like the cage lock feature. Cool beans, thanks


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Yes! Thankful for help from others on this forum.
Impressed with weight and especially cog sizes. Larger 3 cogs (36 42 50) and smaller 4 cogs (10 12 14 16) same as Eagle. Jump from 30 to 36 similar to E13 jump from 33 to 39, which isn't a problem. Also spacing of 16 19 22 similar to E13 14 17 20. Rest of spacing looks great considering their 11 speed has same range as Eagle 12 speed.

I ordered Garbaruk XD cassette in 10-50 yesterday.

Don't know much about SRAM DR.

Have been happy with XTR DR and my E13 9-46 cassette. Like the way it rotates along with lateral movement between cogs. Also like adjustable tension. Shouldn't be necessary to extend the cage much to reach the 50 cog. Have the long cage and expect their extension to a bit too much. Will find out next month.


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## B.Colett (Feb 26, 2012)

...deleted*


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

grizfish said:


> Yes! Thankful for help from others on this forum.
> Impressed with weight and especially cog sizes. Larger 3 cogs (36 42 50) and smaller 4 cogs (10 12 14 16) same as Eagle. Jump from 30 to 36 similar to E13 jump from 33 to 39, which isn't a problem. Also spacing of 16 19 22 similar to E13 14 17 20. Rest of spacing looks great considering their 11 speed has same range as Eagle 12 speed.
> 
> I ordered Garbaruk XD cassette in 10-50 yesterday.
> ...


If you ordered the XD cassette, time for you to get to know the SRAM derailleur =)


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> If you ordered the XD cassette, time for you to get to know the SRAM derailleur =)


If that's the case, then why can't you use an SRAM 11sp derailleur on the Eagle? The shifter controls cog spacing, not the derailleur. Sounds like the SRAM 11sp derailleur can't handle the 50t Eagle cog. 
Can you show me how my assumption is incorrect?


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

grizfish said:


> If that's the case, then why can't you use an SRAM 11sp derailleur on the Eagle? The shifter controls cog spacing, not the derailleur. Sounds like the SRAM 11sp derailleur can't handle the 50t Eagle cog.
> Can you show me how my assumption is incorrect?


your assumption is correct. Theoretically the 11speed Sram derailleur could shift all 12 gears of a Eagle cassette if coupled with a 12speed Sram Eagle shifter as Sram's 11speed and 12speed derailleurs have the same pull ratio (X-Actuation). However the 11speed derailleurs cannot handle cogs sizes above 46T and that's where the Gabaruk cage comes into play.

I personally wouldn't bother with a 11 speed Gabaruk 10-50 cassette and get a 12speed Sram Eagle instead.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Steel Calf said:


> I personally wouldn't bother with a 11 speed Gabaruk 10-50 cassette and get a 12speed Sram Eagle instead.


At 4-5x the cost?!?!
Pfft.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Garbaruk have released the 11 speed rear derailleur cage for Sram NX, GX, X01, needed for a 50t cog shift (available since July); 70$ on their website; Garbaruk 11-50 cassette 200 eur here in Europe, Sram cage 60 eur; GX Eagle upgrade kit (w/o crankset and bb) 300 eur; so, if we do the maths, basically the Garbaruk combo makes sense for extistent shimano freehub users and some consistent weight savings; anyone in need for range and moderate weight savings will probably be interested in GX Eagle;

I can hardly see the motivation in acquiring a Garbaruk Sram cage, since already the GX Eagle RD sells under 100 eur, and, accordingly to this thread, it matches 11 sp SRam shifters;

11-46 cassettes still offer, both in their Sunrace (convenient price) and Garbaruk versions, a useful bailout cog for 11x setups;

SteelCalf wasn't the Sram 11x RD supposed to work up to 49t cogs? I remember reading last year some intro article on PB on Hope's new carbon enduro bike and it was specced with an 10-48 cassette and a Sram X01 RD if I remember well


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

As I can see on the Garbaruk website, they offer a 10-46 cassette, which I find an ideal option for current 1x users; Indeed, SteelCalf (I keep addressing to you, because you were the one evaluatingmodt often the RD capacity issue), within this thread, Garbaruk suggest the acquiring of an Sram RD cage for the 11-48t cassette


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I run a 11speed Sram GX derailleur with a sunrace 11-46 cassette on a hardtail and it's already pretty tight compared to the full 12speed GX Eagle setup on my full suspension bike. That being said you can probably go up to 48T when running a very short chain to max out the pulley clearance, that strategy won't work on a full suspension bike when chain growth comes into play that would tear your dropout apart in a worse case scenario (full travel use at lowest gear)

Furthermore, some people here seem to forget that the cassette is the most important factor when it comes to shifting quality under pedaling power (there's a lot of R&D involved) and I doubt that a 11speed Gabaruk Frankendrivetrain can match a clean 12speed Sram Eagle setup in this regard, thus we're just comparing apples with oranges here


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> At 4-5x the cost?!?!
> Pfft.


Cost is about even:

I bought the 12speed GX Eagle upgrade kit (cassette, shifter, rear derailleur, chain) for 320€

A 10-50 Gabaruk cassette would cost you >200€ alone and you'll still need either the Gabaruk cage or a 12speed GX Eagle derailleur for another 100€


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Steel Calf said:


> Furthermore, some people here seem to forget that the cassette is the most important factor when it comes to shifting quality under pedaling power (there's a lot of R&D involved) and I doubt that a 11speed Gabaruk Frankendrivetrain can match a clean 12speed Sram Eagle setup in this regard, thus we're just comparing apples with oranges here


Can I ask how you came to this conclusion?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

It appears the Garbaruk is one solid piece of aluminum, which concerns me about durability and the need to replace specific cogs eventually. I'm tossing around between the Garbaruk and e*13....


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you for the extra insight; I, for example, could not afford at the present moment to constantly invest 150 eur in a cassette (given the limited lifespan, compared to RD and shifter; 150 eur cheapest GX Eagle cassette, as I found it, usually average GX Eagle cassette price lies at 170 eur), so keeping it Sram 1x11, 11-46 is a good compromise for me; I am not a strong rider, so I need the 30-46 and prefer giving up at the other end; going lower than a 30t chainring can interfere with the suspension, so the 46 cog is welcomed; a cheaper, 10-46 cassette, in the 60-80 eur pricetag, would be very well received I think (you could expand an 11-46 with OneUp's 10t cluster, but the price of the cassette (60 eur Sunrace) + the cluster (85 eur cluster+freehub) lies near to the price of an GX Eagle cassette)


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Anyway, GX Eagle pricing will drop by December-January I guess


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Steel Calf said:


> I run a 11speed Sram GX derailleur with a sunrace 11-46 cassette on a hardtail and it's already pretty tight compared to the full 12speed GX Eagle setup on my full suspension bike. That being said you can probably go up to 48T when running a very short chain to max out the pulley clearance, that strategy won't work on a full suspension bike when chain growth comes into play that would tear your dropout apart in a worse case scenario (full travel use at lowest gear)
> 
> Furthermore, some people here seem to forget that the cassette is the most important factor when it comes to shifting quality under pedaling power (there's a lot of R&D involved) and I doubt that a 11speed Gabaruk Frankendrivetrain can match a clean 12speed Sram Eagle setup in this regard, thus we're just comparing apples with oranges here


Hope Enduro Prototyp HB 211 mit Carbon-Lenker und 10-48-Kassette in der neusten Version [BFS 2017] 10-48 on a full sus; I am curious how they get along; XX1 RD


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Steel Calf said:


> Cost is about even:
> 
> I bought the 12speed GX Eagle upgrade kit (cassette, shifter, rear derailleur, chain) for 320€
> 
> A 10-50 Gabaruk cassette would cost you >200€ alone and you'll still need either the Gabaruk cage or a 12speed GX Eagle derailleur for another 100€


I just ordered a Garbaruk 10-50 with Shimano RD cage. Full cost with shipping to California is $285. I happen to prefer my existing Shimano DR and shifter.

I'm an old fart and need a granny gear larger than my 46t because going to a smaller chainring is throwing off my power moves in the other gears. My analysis could be wrong, but I do not want to spend more for the lowest tier Eagle. It's sort of like fords and Chevys. I like Chevy and Shimano.

If it doesn't work, then maybe I'll go to a 12 speed. Already have an XD driver, but really don't want to go there.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

If I'm buying a $200 cassette + RD cage, I'm not running GX parts. You guys constantly comparing quality aftermarket options to bottom-of-the-line OE parts is a bit disingenuous


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

GX isnt bottom of the line, its actually mid level like shimano slx/xt. Meant to replace X9. NX is bottom of the barrel SRAM in the new stuff (equal to x4/x5)

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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> GX isnt bottom of the line, its actually mid level like shimano slx/xt. Meant to replace X9. NX is bottom of the barrel SRAM in the new stuff (equal to x4/x5)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


GX and Garabuk considerable weight differences. 
The GX eagle cassette is $195 here in the States, Gabaruk is $40 more. 
I don't understand the argument you guys keep throwing out other than penny-pinching


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Im not throwing out any arguement, was just clarifying GX place in Sram Drivetrain hierarchy.

Personally anything north of around $100 for a cassette I think is rediculous. 

And its comparing apples to oranges here.

Garabuk is 11S

The GX cassette is 12s, nothing that hits 50t in 11s. 100g more weight

Sunrace has an 11-50 for $125 11 speed, just north of 500g.

So not really penny pinching there. 12 speed you need more parts so its actually more costly in the end. Need shifter and chain at the vary least.

So the cost ends up being a wash between the options. 12s shifter for the gx route is $40. And still need some mod for the RD to clean up shifting to match. Or just a new derailluer.

Not sure why its a debate with that in mind. Penny pinching for those of use that aren't obsessed with saving every gram, sunrace cassette works out the best for 11s to get that range. Even with a cage, goat link or whatever option to expand derailluer, its way cheaper than the other options by far. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Sram has a proven record of producing long lasting cassettes with excellent shifting quality under load, even beating Shimano IMO.

Sunrace cassettes are cheap but heavy and shifting isn't nearly as good under load. There are dozen of reports indicating that Hope and E13 cassettes don't shift that well either

Many new bikes come equipped with Sram GX Eagle 1x12 for 2018 which should bring prices down on the long run while 11speed 10-50/11-50 cassettes will stay a niche product


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## grizfish (Oct 24, 2011)

Pinkbike article:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/gx-eagle-srams-new-wallet-friendly-12-speed-drivetrain.html

"The GX Eagle cassette uses SRAM's Full Pin design, where the stamped steel cogs are held together with stainless steel pins, rather than being machined out of one piece of steel billet, à la the XX1 Eagle casette. Total weight for the cassette is 448 grams, and it retails for $195 USD."

Garbaruk 11 speed 10-50 Cassette is 320 grams for $240. So, that's what I'm getting because I happen to like my XTR shifter and DR. IMO the 10 cog is a big plus over the 11 cog. 
11-speed Cassette - Garbaruk Lightweight Components


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

grizfish said:


> Pinkbike article:
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/gx-eagle-srams-new-wallet-friendly-12-speed-drivetrain.html
> 
> "The GX Eagle cassette uses SRAM's Full Pin design, where the stamped steel cogs are held together with stainless steel pins, rather than being machined out of one piece of steel billet, à la the XX1 Eagle casette. Total weight for the cassette is 448 grams, and it retails for $195 USD."
> ...


I think I'm going to get the same cassette setup but with X01 RD/shifter and their longer cage


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Steel Calf said:


> Sram has a proven record of producing long lasting cassettes with excellent shifting quality under load, even beating Shimano IMO.
> 
> Sunrace cassettes are cheap but heavy and shifting isn't nearly as good under load. There are dozen of reports indicating that Hope and E13 cassettes don't shift that well either
> 
> Many new bikes come equipped with Sram GX Eagle 1x12 for 2018 which should bring prices down on the long run while 11speed 10-50/11-50 cassettes will stay a niche product


I dont shift under load if at all possible, kind of MTB 101. Unload to shift. The ones doing that I bet are the same ones bending cogs.

Personally Ive been loosing faith in SRAM. My fat bike i have to play with the barrel adjuster anytime the temperature changes much. Thought maybe something wrong with cable housing. Switched it and cable, nope. Ok maybe just old frame flexing a lot under my fat a$$. Then i wanted 1x11 on my road bike. Sram rival 1 with gx rear derailluer. Literally EXACT SAME problem. All brand new drivetrain too.

Shimano never an issues

Sunrace cassettes have the back pedal issue worse than any. But for cost vs weight compared to others Im fine with it.

Not to mention I dont have to deal with XD drivers. Sram set ups just overall cost more. I get theres advantages to sram and the Eagle drivetrains do look cool (though the gold 50t cog is a bit much) and those ive met with them like them so far, the more budget offerings do work rather well for the vast majority.

And those offerings wont be "niche" for a long while. Sunrace probably sells 20 cassettes aftermarket for ever eagle 12s that even touches a bike.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> It appears the Garbaruk is one solid piece of aluminum, which concerns me about durability and the need to replace specific cogs eventually. I'm tossing around between the Garbaruk and e*13....


No, it's steel with an AL big cog.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Since when can you replace individual cogs on any cassette these days. At best you can replace clusters if you can find them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

RAKC Ind said:


> Then i wanted 1x11 on my road bike. Sram rival 1 with gx rear derailluer. Literally EXACT SAME problem. All brand new drivetrain too.


that combo can't work due to Rival 1 group having different pull ratio than GX (Exact-Actuation vs. X-Actuation)

Shifts under load shouldn't be common practise when riding but they do happen


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Steel Calf said:


> that combo can't work due to Rival 1 group having different pull ratio than GX (Exact-Actuation vs. X-Actuation)
> 
> Shifts under load shouldn't be common practise when riding but they do happen


Gx 10 speed rear derailluer, yes it can, been riding it for 7 months now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

RAKC Ind said:


> Gx 10 speed rear derailluer, yes it can, been riding it for 7 months now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


the 10speed GX works with 42T rear cog but only with b-screw maxed out which is not recommended as it has negative effects on chain wrap, yet again we're mixing 10speed with 11speed here...


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ok we're getting way off topic here. But your incorrect on the b-limit matter. Difference between what you read or discuss and me looking right at it having been riding it for months.

Anyway back onto the sunrace cassette.

Which Im seriously considering for my fat bike. Beginning to understand why guys have such low gearing in the winter. We havent had crap for winter in 2 years but a lot of flooding (which means mud) stupid low gearing is the difference between having to try and walk in it or being able to stay up on the bike and crawl through it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

So back on topic...

I just installed the Sunrace CS XM80 11-50t cassette, with a new KMC chain, Shimano medium cage derailleur (M8000 GS) and the Wolftooth Goatlink 11. Actual cassette weight was 517g including spacers and lockring. 

I came off a 11-45 setup using a 11-40 XT cassette with the OneUp 45T. I was going to buy the Sunrace 11-46 as a replacement without the Shimano's annoying 37-46T jump, but decided to get the extra range from the 11-50T to let me run a larger chainring for a greater fraction of my riding. 

Shifting is pretty good, though downshifting through three gears at once feels a bit clunkier than the Shimano/OneUp setup. My B-limit ended up in the middle of the range using the stock B-screw, even with a chain intentionally one link too long (I like to switch between a 30t and 34t chainring without breaking the chain). 

Backpedaling is pretty good. I can occasionally get it to drop off the 50T in the workstand but not while sagged riding on the trail. That's on a Canfield Balance (420mm chainstays) with a 30T AB oval spaced as inboard as the frame allows. 

The "right" answer for me is probably a smaller chainring and a lighter cassette with a 9T/10T on an XD-driver, but converting a Hadley hub is more expensive than I think it's worth. For now I'll accept the slightly higher unspring weight in order to get the range.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you for the valuable info, Garbaruk produces a 11-50 almost integral steel cassette, weighing 295g, at the cost of something above 200$. They have now 10-50 and 10-46 options also available. So roughly about 200g (0.44 lbs) unsprung mass goes away.

One slightly off-topic question: does, in your experience, a smaller chainring alter the normal suspension functionality (higher anti-squat, harsher feel during pedaling)? I know it depends upon a lot of variables, eg. CS length, travel, leverage ratio etc, but I personally feel an amount of change in harshness after a swap from a 36t to a 30t (2x 22/36 to 1x 30/11-46 conversion). I wonder if it is just placebo or some changes might have occurred. Harshness in suspension occurs during pedaling in flat, the climbing was taking place with the 22t anyway.

I raise this problematic in the light of lazarus' ideea, smaller cassette with smaller chainring. Where can one find the balance between optimum suspension functioning and decent gear range? I can choose a 28 chainring, paired with a 10-46, and come near to Eagle's 32t 10-50 offering, perhaps at lower weight. But is it worth it when considering possible suspension issues (while pedaling ofc)? I absolutely talk from the view point of a weaker rider, who definitely is in search not of only a granny gear, but of 2-3 favorable steps up there. Ty


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

Alex.Grecu said:


> does, in your experience, a smaller chainring alter the normal suspension functionality (higher anti-squat, harsher feel during pedaling)?


yes, depending on what your frame is optimized for in the first place. Google for the linkage design blogspot website und look up your bike to get an idea.

My Giant Trance 2015 frame works best with a 32T chainring, I can definitely feel less pedal kickback compared to the 30T I ran before with 1x11 setup.

I elaborated on this topic once somewhere else on this forum, interesting that someone else has the same thought. In fact the improvement in suspension performance was my main motivation upgrading to Eagle, not the range.


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Steel Calf said:


> yes, depending on what your frame is optimized for in the first place. Google for the linkage design blogspot website und look up your bike to get an idea.
> 
> My Giant Trance 2015 frame works best with a 32T chainring, I can definitely feel less pedal kickback compared to the 30T I ran before with 1x11 setup.
> 
> I elaborated on this topic once somewhere else on this forum, interesting that someone else has the same thought. In fact the improvement in suspension performance was my main motivation upgrading to Eagle, not the range.


Thank you so much for the response. Been in many places:
- AS and suspension behavior articles, 
- if I am not in doubt some threads in the forum (with some comments of you included there), but somehow they only partially dealt with my issues (one general piece of advice - not given by you though- was for the asking guy to stop thinking, because differences are minimal - he had the same 30t vs 36t dilemma);
- on linkagedesignblogspot
- andrextr, who told me a 28-30t will lead to near 100% AS (only after changing the CR with a 30t I understood that near 100% AS is not what I want for my style, I pretty much enjoy an active suspension);

I think the change in my case is not radical, but till noticeable; I will have to run back, a couple of times, with the 36, to see if there indeed is any difference; 32t on Eagle progressively starts to form itself as a solution in my mind;34 on Eagle is to much for me, as is 32 on 11-46, 27.5 wheeled. 2x10 is not so bad, but I can't ignore the 300g weight saving (that with the not so light Sunrace 11-46) that came with the shift (plus simplified cockpit, clearance etc).


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I can tell you that I felt an immediate improvement upgrading from 30/10-42 to 32/10-50 

If you want a most active suspension AS numbers below 100 and above 80 are to be preferred, a 32T should work well with your frame and should still give you a quite low 32/50 climbing hear


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## Alex.Grecu (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you very much, your answer is very useful and clear, exactly what I was looking for, a sweet spot between pedaling efficiency and active suspension. 

And yes, 32/50 is easier to pedal by a few fractions, than 30/46, so plenty enough.

Ty again


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## crondula (Feb 26, 2006)

*Sun 11-50 with XT SGS*

I have been successfully running with all "stock" Sunrace 11-50, XT M8000 SGS (short cage) and Race Face CINCH 26T 1x, 27.5 Santa Cruz Bronson without issue for several months over many conditions. The Sunrace cassette has a better gear spacing layout than the Shimano, so when you moved between gears on the Sunrace it felt more natural and not some weird jumps like the Shimano would have.

I upgraded from a Shimano 11-46 setup, I have a lot of technical climbs in my area and wanted something that was a little easier on my knees.

For those contemplating derailleur mods, I found they were not needed. OneUp, Wolf and others push their derailleur mods along with the big cogs, in my case, the new system worked as well as the Shimano did. I was able to get by adjusting the b-screw and chain length once the 11-50 was installed.


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

blady74 said:


> Hi,
> Is possible (with success)- in outline Sram 1x12 derailleur, 11speed sunrace 11-50 cassette and Sram 11 speed shifter- change trigger shifter to road double tap shifter.
> Thanks in advance.
> Regards


You can just use a 1X long cage road derailleur; I installed the CSMX80 11-50 on my road bike with Rival 1 Long Cage; shifter is Force 1 HRD. Shifts perfectly through all cogs, without noise or hesitation, and I didn't even have to turn the B-screw all the way in. What it DID need is a Wolf Tooth RoadLink.









-Ed


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> I dont shift under load if at all possible, kind of MTB 101. Unload to shift. The ones doing that I bet are the same ones bending cogs.
> 
> Personally Ive been loosing faith in SRAM. My fat bike i have to play with the barrel adjuster anytime the temperature changes much. Thought maybe something wrong with cable housing. Switched it and cable, nope. Ok maybe just old frame flexing a lot under my fat a$$. Then i wanted 1x11 on my road bike. Sram rival 1 with gx rear derailluer. Literally EXACT SAME problem. All brand new drivetrain too.
> 
> ...


The GX 2x10 long cage doesn't work nearly as well as their 1X road long cage derailleurs. I am running the 10-speed 11-46 cassette from SunRace on my gravel bike with old Force shifters (plus a Wolf Tooth RoadLink), and the shifting performance isn't nearly as good as the setup in my previous post right above this one.

-Ed


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## blady74 (Jun 12, 2017)

EddNog said:


> You can just use a 1X long cage road derailleur; I installed the CSMX80 11-50 on my road bike with Rival 1 Long Cage; shifter is Force 1 HRD. Shifts perfectly through all cogs, without noise or hesitation, and I didn't even have to turn the B-screw all the way in. What it DID need is a Wolf Tooth RoadLink.
> 
> View attachment 1161005
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Ed!!!
So I need sth like this:
Wolf Tooth Roadlink > Components > Frames > Hangers & Dropouts | Jenson USA
But now I think about Ethirteen 9-46 Cassette with above mentioned outline. 
Regards


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

blady74 said:


> Thanks a lot Ed!!!
> So I need sth like this:
> Wolf Tooth Roadlink > Components > Frames > Hangers & Dropouts | Jenson USA
> But now I think about Ethirteen 9-46 Cassette with above mentioned outline.
> Regards


The e*Thirteen will work fine, yeah, except the cassette costs twice as much, and it especially costs more if you don't already have xD driver bodies (I don't have xD on a single wheel set, personally).

-Ed


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## blady74 (Jun 12, 2017)

EddNog said:


> The e*Thirteen will work fine, yeah, except the cassette costs twice as much, and it especially costs more if you don't already have xD driver bodies (I don't have xD on a single wheel set, personally).
> 
> -Ed


Thanks once more.
Do your think E13 will work with Rival long Cage without Wolf tooth adapter?
Regards 
Marek


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

blady74 said:


> Thanks once more.
> Do your think E13 will work with Rival long Cage without Wolf tooth adapter?
> Regards
> Marek


It should work because I was running CS-M8000 11-46 with Rival 1 long cage and no RoadLink before I upgraded to CSMX80 11-50.

-Ed


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## blady74 (Jun 12, 2017)

EddNog said:


> It should work because I was running CS-M8000 11-46 with Rival 1 long cage and no RoadLink before I upgraded to CSMX80 11-50.
> 
> -Ed


Thanks once more Ed.
I really appreciate your help.
Regards 
Marek


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi all I have some questions related to this thread. Want to go 1x 11 with sunrace 11-50 cassette and as cheaply as possible. I saw that @megatega ran it with gx der, wasn’t clear on wether that was 11 speed der or the new 12 speed with 11 speed shifter. I’m pretty sure the 12 speed works fine with 11 speed shifter, but should I run an 11 or 12 speed chain?
Or, if the 11 speed gx der works fine, could save a few bucks there. I have a gx 1x 11 der on my other bike with a 46t cog, plenty of room left on b screw and if I just turn the der by hand to mimic its position at max b screw looks like tons of room, after all the 50t cog is only .32” larger radius. Is that your setup, megatega? Anyone? Does this work good enough? Thanks.


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

dwyooaj said:


> Hi all I have some questions related to this thread. Want to go 1x 11 with sunrace 11-50 cassette and as cheaply as possible. I saw that @megatega ran it with gx der, wasn't clear on wether that was 11 speed der or the new 12 speed with 11 speed shifter. I'm pretty sure the 12 speed works fine with 11 speed shifter, but should I run an 11 or 12 speed chain?
> Or, if the 11 speed gx der works fine, could save a few bucks there. I have a gx 1x 11 der on my other bike with a 46t cog, plenty of room left on b screw and if I just turn the der by hand to mimic its position at max b screw looks like tons of room, after all the 50t cog is only .32" larger radius. Is that your setup, megatega? Anyone? Does this work good enough? Thanks.


I have no problems running their road 1X long cage derailleurs with a SunRace CSMX80 11-50 cassette. I believe their 11-speed GX long-cage should work as well. You may want to combine with a GoatLink, as I needed a RoadLink to run the 11-50 with the Rival 1 long cage.

-Ed


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

If I need to add a goatlink to the 11sp der, might as well just get the 12 speed with no goatlink. Think ive already decided on the 12speed der with 11 spd shifter and cassette. Should I run an 11 spd or 12 spd chain with that setup?


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

dwyooaj said:


> If I need to add a goatlink to the 11sp der, might as well just get the 12 speed with no goatlink. Think ive already decided on the 12speed der with 11 spd shifter and cassette. Should I run an 11 spd or 12 spd chain with that setup?


My guess is you may want to go with an 11-speed chain in case the outer chain width works better for the spacing on an 11-speed cassette for downshifting up to larger cogs, but at the end of the day, it probably isn't a huge difference either way. Arguably, the 11-speed chain might be a little bit stronger?

-Ed


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well, I did it. Sunrace 11-50 cassette, sram gx eagle der, gx 11 speed shifter, 30t chainring and 11 spd chain. Only problem is it doesn’t want to upshift from the 42t to the 36t. Everything else shifts great. Anyone have any ideas? Maybe eagle der isn’t best for 11 speed? I’ve always thought the shifter sets the tone not the der.


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## HBoni (Oct 28, 2017)

dwyooaj said:


> I've always thought the shifter sets the tone not the der.


It's one thing how much cable the shifter pulls and it's another thing how much the derailleur travels sideways for that amount of cable pull.

I can't find any data about 12spd. SRAM says 12spd stuff uses X-Actuation like 11spd mountain stuff so in theory your combo should work. Or maybe they slightly revised the ratio and forgot to tell us.


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

HBoni said:


> It's one thing how much cable the shifter pulls and it's another thing how much the derailleur travels sideways for that amount of cable pull.
> 
> I can't find any data about 12spd. SRAM says 12spd stuff uses X-Actuation like 11spd mountain stuff so in theory your combo should work. Or maybe they slightly revised the ratio and forgot to tell us.


No, they didn't change it. It definitely works, as I've seen other people combine 12-speed and 11-speed shifters and derailleurs from SRAM in different configurations on MTBs.

-Ed


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## underpickled (Jan 25, 2019)

EddNog said:


> You can just use a 1X long cage road derailleur; I installed the CSMX80 11-50 on my road bike with Rival 1 Long Cage; shifter is Force 1 HRD. Shifts perfectly through all cogs, without noise or hesitation, and I didn't even have to turn the B-screw all the way in. What it DID need is a Wolf Tooth RoadLink.
> 
> View attachment 1161005
> 
> ...


SUPER curious about this... based on the cage position when it's on the 11t, do you think it could handle the slack of a 10t?
I currently switch between 2 wheelsets (10-42t for road, 11-46t for gravel). I was wondering if it was possible to put an 11-50t on the gravel wheelset and still be able to switch them out.


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## underpickled (Jan 25, 2019)

Also, did you follow SRAM's big-big + 4 half-link chain sizing for this setup or did you make it a link shorter to keep the chain path clear of the top jockey wheel when it's shifted into the 11t?


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

dwyooaj said:


> but should I run an 11 or 12 speed chain?
> .


Both will work on a 11s cassette


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## jlalou (Jun 1, 2007)

underpickled said:


> Also, did you follow SRAM's big-big + 4 half-link chain sizing for this setup or did you make it a link shorter to keep the chain path clear of the top jockey wheel when it's shifted into the 11t?


I'm also interested to hear the answer to this - attempting a 11-50 Sunrace setup with 11 speed GX shifter and derailleur and there's too much slack on the chain when in the 11-34 combo when using the big-big +2 chain length method, so chain keeps dropping.


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## underpickled (Jan 25, 2019)

jlalou said:


> I'm also interested to hear the answer to this - attempting a 11-50 Sunrace setup with 11 speed GX shifter and derailleur and there's too much slack on the chain when in the 11-34 combo when using the big-big +2 chain length method, so chain keeps dropping.


I think your problem here is the chain wrap capacity of your RD. It's hard to say without knowing your big ring size, but it sounds like your setup probably needs >50 teeth of wrap capacity and I think the 10/11 GX RD (at least the ones that support multiple chainrings) supports up to 47 teeth of wrap (I think I read that somewhere a while ago, so I'm not 100% sure, but I'd be shocked if any RD supported more than that).
I think you need a smaller rear cassette if you're running a 2x drivetrain. Sunrace makes 11-46, 11-42, 11-40, 11-36, Garbaruk makes 11-48 (probably still too big) and 11-46.
You could try using Garbaruk's replacement cage for SRAM RDs. It is supposed to improve clearance and I *think* capacity, but I don't know by how much.


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## underpickled (Jan 25, 2019)

This is slightly off topic, but since anyone interested in 11-50 cassettes is not already running Eagle and looking for increased range, I think this is relevant.
Basically, if you have a Force 1 or Rival 1 RD, it looks like you can combine parts of it with an Eagle RD and retain road shifter compatibility, but get the clearance and wrap of the Eagle RD. It does NOT give you 12s for free, since your shifters would still be 11s, but then you can run 10/11-50t Garbaruk cassettes and 11-50t Sunrace cassettes without too much trouble (though this will only work for 1x setups)
Original forum link here: https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=207007

If you have Rival 1, the OP solution won't work because the cable pulley/barrel component is part of the upper assembly. You'll have to use the solution in the comments, which involves switching in the clutch/cage (or just the cage) assembly of an Eagle GX. I have a Rival 1, so I'm going to attempt this.


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## jlalou (Jun 1, 2007)

I could only find posts on google saying it doesn't work. In the end it was a simple solution - I didn't need the Rapide derailleur hanger extender that I got with the cassette and chain - removed that and everything working perfectly now! Running 1x11 with GX 11 speed X-horizon (1x) RD and GX 11 speed gripshift, 11-50 Sunrace cassette and 34 tooth chainring. Had to add 2 links to the chain after I shortened it too much - but I think it's still shorter than the big-big + 2 links chain length method. And the B-screw is only half way in. Very excited to have it all working now!


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

underpickled said:


> This is slightly off topic, but since anyone interested in 11-50 cassettes is not already running Eagle and looking for increased range, I think this is relevant.
> Basically, if you have a Force 1 or Rival 1 RD, it looks like you can combine parts of it with an Eagle RD and retain road shifter compatibility, but get the clearance and wrap of the Eagle RD. It does NOT give you 12s for free, since your shifters would still be 11s, but then you can run 10/11-50t Garbaruk cassettes and 11-50t Sunrace cassettes without too much trouble (though this will only work for 1x setups)
> Original forum link here: https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=207007
> 
> If you have Rival 1, the OP solution won't work because the cable pulley/barrel component is part of the upper assembly. You'll have to use the solution in the comments, which involves switching in the clutch/cage (or just the cage) assembly of an Eagle GX. I have a Rival 1, so I'm going to attempt this.


How'd this work out for you? I run Rival 1 long cage derailleurs currently on my road and gravel bikes and I am looking to get better shifting on the cassettes I run (everything from 11-46 to 9-50).

-Ed


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Just run a A Shimano M7100 derailleur on your 11sp works great. Im doing it now. For the price of Garbaruk you might as well buy an eagle 12s cassette and be done. Sunrace cassettes are hit and miss on quality, but generally work pretty well.


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