# Anyone ever have an LBS be totally lost with their IGH?



## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

After having some concerns with drag and knowing I was coming up on my initial servicing. I dropped the bike off at the LBS for said service. I'd had 3 conversations with them before hand, so I knew they had the tools. 

So, I checked the bike in, came back the next day to check on it... and my bike was sitting on the showroom floor. Nothing had been done to the hub. They told me they took the wheel off, spun it, and put it back on.

I asked why, they said it seemed fine. I asked if they opened it up and they said no... So, miffed that my bike was left sitting in the showroom all day. I rode it home.

I calmed down for a few days and went back in to ask them if they COULD do the servicing I talked about. they stumbled a bit. then said they'd need to look up what goes into that (In spite of telling me that they could do it no problem, when I dropped it off) I told them I could tell them exactly what goes into it. I can also show them how to do it and what tools they'll need.

With that info they were able to give me a price.

I can easily do this work myself. I just don't want to buy the tools or bother the Miss with the mess. But I feel as though I might have to.hub is still not past its recommended servicing. but I like to do these a little early. given the moisture around here and my weight.

this is the most recommended LBS in the county. and I don't feel particularly confident in their abilities to handle this.


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## musikron (Jan 16, 2013)

I wouldn't pay them to performthe service, they are asking you how to complete the work, that gives me very little faith in their abilities to satisfactory complete the job.


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## scubaklook (Apr 20, 2005)

^ this

Do you have a co op or place that has open shop/diy hours? That way you can use their tools and not make a mess at home.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I can't think of any special tools req'd to service an Alfine 8. Nothing that is any sort of major investment.

You can do it outside if the smell of the ATF fluid is an issue. 

It doesn't take very long.

That LBS sounds clueless, but I have only ever encountered one LBS that was IGH savvy and the had Rohloff parts in their front counter so I knew they were odd balls.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

scubaklook said:


> ^ this
> 
> Do you have a co op or place that has open shop/diy hours? That way you can use their tools and not make a mess at home.


I'm an instructor at my local Co-Op, and I technically am able to go on any 5 hours in a day, but given the 16 mile commute and my job, I can't get in there as often as I'd like. I don't feel right making the Co-Op buy tools I know only I would use. I have made them get spoke tension meters and some other more specific tools. but I feel like making them get the wrench to smoothly take the side of this hub off, or the bearing tools (In the rare chance that I'd need them) would be excessive.

I am getting to the point, though. where I don't really see the need to support my LBS. As of late they charge above MSRP and treat me like a second rate customer because they know I am just as capable at doing the labor as they are.

But sometimes you just want to pay for the convenience. Which they are making not an option.

that being said, I am one of those jerks that is only ever satisfied with my own adjustments. as anyone who has ever learned to adjust cones from me can attest.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

You don't really need the wrench to take the dust cap off. Removed mine with a small flathead screwdriver and some patience.

It sounds like this is one of those things where your standard of quality is above the LBS because they just don't get that much exposure to this kind of product. Unfortunately it takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to admit "Yeah, I don't know how to handle this" after having initially promised competency.

They should have called you as soon as they realized they had no plan of action. My car mechanic does this when he encounters something goofy or just wants me to sit and wait on something I'm concerned about.

Generally I agree that most LBS outfits have little IGH exposure. A few in my area do, and one is *really* good at it, Freewheel Bike in Minneapolis.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Drew Diller said:


> You don't really need the wrench to take the dust cap off. Removed mine with a small flathead screwdriver and some patience.


+1 - same here. We've spent more time chatting about the service the it would actually take to do it.


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

A pair of slip-joint pliers will easily remove the dust cap - all that you need other than that are cone spanners. If you've got half an hour why not just do the job yourself?


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Andy R said:


> A pair of slip-joint pliers will easily remove the dust cap - all that you need other than that are cone spanners. If you've got half an hour why not just do the job yourself?


because I live in a one bedroom apartment with someone else, and I have been trying to be considerate of her due to the mess/odors.

that being said, Vik is right. I can do the job correctly in less than 45 minutes. I've put more work into typing in this topic than it would take to just do it myself.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I can echo the general knowledge level of most bike shops as far as IGHs go. They're not terribly common in the States, so most people feel no need to learn to work on them.

That said, not knowing how to work on Shimano hubs is unacceptable, considering they publish an industry-only site (a portion of it, really) that specifically deals with servicing their IGH models.

Being that it is free, they really have no excuse on that front.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Agreed.

I've watched about 5 videos on servicing these hubs. read through several tech PDF's and then went and found a video (that I have since lost) illustrating the way these hubs work in an exploded CGI diagram/film.

Combining that with my mechanical experience/training in other films. I can safely say the Alfine 8 is not a hard item to fix. provided you understand the level of precision required to fix it.

It looks like it was engineered with the servicer in mind. many of the gears that have to be "timed" are color coded at the appropriate locations, and the whole unit opens so easily.

I'd rather be doing this than replacing a blend door motor in a modern car. those things are usually beasts.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I did the dip in my apartment using an amazon shipping box full of shipping paper to catch the drips. But since your hub is brand new, I'd just pour a capful of ATF into the left side and properly adjust the cones. You can do the dip in another 1K miles.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> I did the dip in my apartment using an amazon shipping box full of shipping paper to catch the drips. But since your hub is brand new, I'd just pour a capful of ATF into the left side and properly adjust the cones. You can do the dip in another 1K miles.


Good point. I didn't open my A8 for the first 5yrs...lol...and when I did it looked so good I didn't dip it. I just re-greased the bearings and buttoned it up. :eekster:

Just skip the service and ride the IGH. :thumbsup:


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

I've found most lbs's are lost quickly with anything outside of the cycling mainstream, and igh usually falls out of it. Most bike shop employees are kids working summer jobs.


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## Dan Burkhart (Mar 18, 2014)

vikb said:


> Just skip the service and ride the IGH. :thumbsup:


 The owner of this hub is wishing he had serviced it. He brought it to me this morning complaining it wasn't working and his bike shop didn't know how to fix it.
I said the only fix is a new hub.
Nexus 7


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Dan Burkhart said:


> The owner of this hub is wishing he had serviced it. He brought it to me this morning complaining it wasn't working and his bike shop didn't know how to fix it.
> I said the only fix is a new hub.
> Nexus 7


And you figure the OP's A8 is at risk of looking like that after 2 months of use?










This is the internals of my A8 after 5yrs including months of beach camping in Baja, 2 Canadian winters, Burning Man and other assorted abuse. I think the OP is safe to keep rolling after 2 months.


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## Dan Burkhart (Mar 18, 2014)

vikb said:


> And you figure the OP's A8 is at risk of looking like that after 2 months of use?


 No, not likely. The Alfine is sealed much better, but even so, if they are subjected to harsh weather or power washers, more frequent servicing is recommended.
The bike that came to me today had been stolen, and out of the owner's possession for some time. Of course, he has no idea what it was subjected to in the meantime.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

I want to do this maintenance for preventative reasons. I live in a super humid, super rainy place.

But also to fine tune the hub and get it to roll a little smoother. I am still easily within the window of time for that initial maintenance.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

Agwan said:


> I told them I could tell them exactly what goes into it. I can also show them how to do it and what tools they'll need.
> 
> I can easily do this work myself.


Seems like a good case of HTFU and do it yourself.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Did you actually read the thread? Cupcake?


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

nope got the part of could have, should have, would have and thought well why didnt you. hard to cry about something you are so willing to teach others to do.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

I see. So you admit to the ignorance with which you speak. Proud to be stupid. Good for you.

I haven't yet because (And this next part may seem a bit foreign to you) There is this woman I live with, I treat her quite kindly and I also get to have sexual relations with her.

ATF has a bit of an odor, and in a 1 bedroom apartment it is unpleasant. Because I am able to attract and keep a member of the opposite sex. I am also considerate of her comfort. Not wishing discomfort on someone you care for is an example of empathy. Not risking losing the security deposit with spilled ATF is an example of good judgement.

I'll do the servicing at some point in the near future, that point was also already stated.

you're not bright.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

so basically seems like a case of HTFU thanks for clarifying.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

P.S.sorry you can only afford a 1 bedroom apartment. please include your save an orphan donations link. I want to help you.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

You amuse me. feel free to continue.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

no need, you are already lost. thanks though, again HTFU. boom bop.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Yes. I will surely take the words of "Tha Dawg Catcher" to heart, you've truly cut to the quick of me.

I'm going to go successfully have sex with an attractive woman now. 

you hold tightly to those edgy acronyms of yours. They're quite gripping.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

k sounds good man.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

#swag.


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

#htfu


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

#whowillhavethelastword


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

#thoughtyouweregoingtosuccesfullyhavesexwithsomething?


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

#werebothverylimberandwaitingforthegoat


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

#rideitlikeaIGHcutitloosetomorry


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

#heyidonttellyouwhotovotefor


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## Tha Dawg Catcher (Jan 5, 2012)

#dontdowhatitellyoutododowhatyouaresupposedtodo


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

#goesanddoesthething


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

Agwan said:


> There is this woman I live with, I treat her quite kindly and I also get to have sexual relations with her.
> 
> ATF has a bit of an odor, and in a 1 bedroom apartment it is unpleasant. Because I am able to attract and keep a member of the opposite sex. I am also considerate of her comfort.


Sounds like time for some of this ......


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Tha Dawg Catcher said:


> P.S.sorry you can only afford a 1 bedroom apartment. please include your save an orphan donations link. I want to help you.


What do you have against one bedroom apartments?


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

In all seriousness though. I've got the wheel listed here for 300 dollars. all parts included. I need to find out if it's okay to post a paid spam in here, because thus far all I've gotten is scammer emails.

I really don't want to ebay this thing. They gouge sellers fiercely.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Agwan said:


> ...I'm going to go successfully have sex with an attractive woman now....


For her sake, I hope you're better at that than you are at working on bikes, otherwise she's in for a big disappointment


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm so good at working on bikes I'm a part of an organization that asked me to train others to fix bikes. So that insult doesn't really bother me.

Heck, I can fix a modern car, nothing about a bike is challenging. After working on a few manual transmissions, this hub is not at all scary.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Agwan said:


> ...So that insult doesn't really bother me....


It's called a "ribbing" or a "joke".


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

10/10 perfect use of video.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Didn't expect this kind of garbage in this sleepy little subforum, enjoy the negative rep, Tha Dawg Catcher.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

yeah. It wasn't the best approach.

I really wanted to sell this wheel system and get some 105 instead. but my add here is nearly out. and I've had zero luck on ebay and craigslist.

Seems like I'm going to have to suck it up and service it myself. I find it alarming that I seem to be the only mechanic in town (Or the whole county) not terrified of servicing these things.

I will try to not get ATF on the kitchen counter.

I am interested to know why people are afraid to separate the internals. my research shows that they're "timed" with blue dots on the planetaries?


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

Agwan said:


> Seems like I'm going to have to suck it up and service it myself. I find it alarming that I seem to be the only mechanic in town (Or the whole county) not terrified of servicing these things.
> I will try to not get ATF on the kitchen counter.


If you're "so good" (your words) that you train others then -
a) Why don't you train them to service Alfine hubs at the same time as doing your own?
b) Do it where you do your training then you won't have to risk spilling ATF in the kitchen (it easily wipes up, BTW)

Simples.....


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

I train others because I am staff at a bike Co-Op. a position I was asked to take after volunteering there for about 4 days. I'm considering doing the wheel work at said Co-Op. but things tend to walk away if you blink too long (Bye-bye, XT derailleur.) Also, while I technically have access to our shop whenever I want. it's a long commute and the community center we are inside keeps random hours. So it's a bit of a gamble. I may still try to do the work there. if I do I'd like to do it in a position where we can all learn about these hubs.

I already gave two LBSes detailed instructions on this VERY easy process. I allowed them to ask questions then let them know I would hold no ill will against them if they didn't feel comfortable with the work.

both shops said they were comfortable with the work. both shops just took the wheel and more or less stared at it.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Just pour a capful of ATF in the left, non-drive side, that's the same as a dip when it's a new hub. No fuss, no muss, happy SO.


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## Agwan (Feb 16, 2011)

Finally got down to the Co-Op (I moved a little bit ago, the Co-Op in this state is a bit of a drive away now) and did a full dip. no dissasembly of the guts. but a good, by the books cleaning and dipping. the hub was barely greased at all. I didn't over grease it. but I made sure the races and bearings had solid coverage.

checked my bearings and races and everything looked great. no shavings or pieces anywhere. 

Quicker, quieter shifts. substantially less drag. It's really shaping up! I think I might like the gearing a bit more if I swap my 16t for an 18t.

Everyone at the new Co-Op was like "WOAH, look at that!"

Which to be fair is like, 60% of why I bought the thing.

I'm also told that they wear in to be even smoother. this thing has barely 300 miles on it. I'm excited to see where it's at in another 700.


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