# 900g 2010 Focus Raven Extreme frameset with BB30



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

might be my next bike

* Uses a number of elements found in the 2010 Izalco road frame that will be ridden by Team Milram
* Features FOCUS’ exclusive Integrated Cable Tunnel frame design which routes the rear brake and gear cables directly inside the top and down tubes.
* Because it has been designed as a separate channel that sits in a ridge on the outside of the top and downtubes, the Integrated Cable Tunnel used on Izalco & Raven frames helps to boost the frame’s stiffness and handling while also improving brake and shifting performance.
* Tapered headtube/steerertube for enhanced stiffness and steering precision
* BB30 bottom bracket design
* Elbowed ‘Comfort’ rear stays which have been engineered to increase the vertical compliance of the frame
* Comfort rear stays have been designed to accommodate a 2.4” wide rear tire
* Full carbon dropouts for decreased weight
* Post mount standard disc brake mount
* Will be available in four models (Raven Extreme, Raven Pro, Raven Expert, Raven)
* Raven Extreme features RockShox SID World Cup, SRAM XX, DT Swiss XCR 1350 wheelset, Continental Race King Supersonic tires
* Will be available in four sizes, SM through XL
* Will be available later this fall to riders in North America

FOCUS Raven Extreme
Frame: FOCUS Raven Extreme full carbon
Fork: Rock Shox Sid XX WC,R RL hydraulic LO 100 mm
Wheels: DT Swiss XRC 1350 carbon
Gear shift group: SRAM XX
Brakes: Avid Elixir XX, hydraulic disk-brake

does anyone here have a Focus hardtail? or have there been any German reviews/comparisons of the new Raven or last years model?


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

thats a nice race bike, the front looks like a Merida.


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## bmf102 (Aug 27, 2007)

Sign me up for one!:thumbsup:


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g 2010 Focus Raven Extreme Frameset*



wannabeRacer said:


> thats a nice race bike, the front looks like a Merida.


lol, seems to be quite a few similar frames with from that factory on the market!

forgot to post the full spec in my original post, here's "gras deaux"

2010 Focus Raven Hardtail

- fat upright chainstays with high tire clearance
- Oversize BB junction with BB30
- Tapered head tube
- Internal cable routing in downtube with build in reinforcement for the down tube
- carbon drop outs
- PM rear brake mount inside rear triangle
- 900g frame weight
- 6000 Euro under 9kg complete bike

what's posted here is all the info/pics i could find, if anyone knows when Focus usa is expected to be up and running i'd be glad to know - otherwise i'll try to source a frame from Europe

http://www.focus-bikes.com/news_archiv.asp?lang=english&active=3-1&CID=804


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

You are dropping 6000EURO for that bike? wow MTBiking prices are getting insane! And bikers are also insane accepting this continuous exponential prices growth! Hmm thinking well there’s 100’s of MTB manufacturers maybe because the bike business is good and all want a share of the money that the insane bikers are willing to drop, so they can show the latest bling to the friends. 
Anyone wants to bet on the manufacturing cost of this bike?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g 2010 Focus Raven Extreme Frameset*



sergio_pt said:


> You are dropping 6000EURO for that bike? wow MTBiking prices are getting insane! And bikers are also insane accepting this continuous exponential prices growth! Hmm thinking well there's 100's of MTB manufacturers maybe because the bike business is good and all want a share of the money that the insane bikers are willing to drop, so they can show the latest bling to the friends.
> Anyone wants to bet on the manufacturing cost of this bike?


i'll bite> $19.95 of materials with 4 hours labour? in a high-tech Taiwanese factory that exclusively manufactures similar looking high-end carbon bike frames?

stop flaming! + i'm not an effing poseur, insane perhaps yes - the wife thinks weight weenism gram counting is just crazy!

i need a lightweight BB30 uni carbon frameset to build a HT to flog on the miles of fireroads here & retire my 04 S-Works Epic

interested frame only, not bought a complete bike since a 1992 Marin Bear Valley SE

apparently the frameset should be available in the UK at the end of the month @ alot less than the 2010 S-Work SJ frameset i had been contemplating

cheers!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

And yet, you can get a completely stock Cannondale Flash for slightly more, and it will weigh an entire kilogram less.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

That's one sexy lookin' frame


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

I always liked Focus bikes - they had a nice and clean classic look. Now it's all gone. This bike looks like every other chineese overlydesigned goofyshaped specialized.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

If you need help getting the frame im UK based....


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

That looks like a mighty small frame on display there. How hard would it be for manufactures to post the weight of each frame size.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> - fat upright chainstays with high tire clearance
> - Oversize BB junction with BB30
> - Tapered head tube
> - Internal cable routing in downtube with build in reinforcement for the down tube
> ...


Looks like they learned something from - 
Specialized, Canyon and Storck.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g BB30 2010 Focus Raven Extreme Frameset*

thanks Tiffster, might use it as an excuse to go visit my family & perhaps bring a frame back with me

i'm still researching the bike/brand & not fully committed. frustratingly i can't google-up any solid information on the 2010 Raven other than what i've plastered on here, or find any reviews of previous years cabon Ravens

last years medium bike had a 70.5 HT & 73.5 ST geometry which will suit me well for a replacement to an 04 Epic frameset

anyone here have any experience of Focus carbon hardtails? or know someone or read something informative? did the Focus mtb team ever win anything?(!!)

wrote to Focus last week, still waiting for a response any info would be much appreciated

best
cs

..............edit to change foto's of 08 + 09 Raven Extreme's for better ones.............


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Oooo, where bouts in England ?? 

Having done a similar thing myself you need to be "creative" at customs, if they see you have a new frame in your hand they'll charge you for it.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> Oooo, where bouts in England ??
> 
> Having done a similar thing myself you need to be "creative" at customs, if they see you have a new frame in your hand they'll charge you for it.


my mum's settled in Lincolnshire now, i was born in North Devon & have sisters in London and Manchester + family scattered about Canada and Wales

might just pack it really well & post it to myself - could be the best option! •˙¬)

(photo above is the 09 Raven Extreme complete bike)


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah that's what i did, posted to myself from myself, low value on the customs forms etc to avoid tax etc. 

Im in Scotland - should come for a ride  some propa hills....


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> Yeah that's what i did, posted to myself from myself, low value on the customs forms etc to avoid tax etc.
> 
> Im in Scotland - should come for a ride  some propa hills....


cool beans Tiffster & thanks for the tip

if your ever over in SoCal tap me up, i'm right by the Pacific but can see snow capped mountains in the far distance - if the wind blows away the smog!


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## dougal.s (Mar 13, 2006)

Focus don't sell frame-only, certainly not in the UK, and I can't see any frame-only when I look at their German site.

No doubt they'll do a cheaper full bike that can be stripped and parts sold though.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

paper-weight....to be verified


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Press release regarding Focus usa*

http://www.bike-eu.com/news/3403/derby-cycle-werke-establishes-us-subsidiary.html

News
Derby Cycle Werke Establishes US Subsidiary

CLOPPENBURG, Germany - Derby Cycle Werke has established Focus Bicycles USA, Inc. in order to start the US distribution of the German built Focus branded bicycles. Focus Bicycles USA, Inc. will handle all sales, marketing, distribution and customer service to support the brand, and will sell through a network of dealers across the US.

The exact location of the office and warehouse is yet unknown but will be along the west-coast. "With the entry into the US market we will further increase the international market share of Focus", said Mathias Seidler, CEO Derby Cycle Werke GmbH.

Derby Cycle Werke has hired Scott Rittschof as President of the new division who is also in charge of setting up the US office. Rittschof has served as Vice President of International Operations for PowerBar, based in Munich. He also owned and operated two retail stores in the San Diego area until last year. "We are convinced that we found the perfect partner for our US distribution. Scott Rittschof has the experience of working in the US bicycle market and has worked internationally", explained Seidler.

Focus has a long history in racing, having been founded by the legendary Mike Kluge, a former cyclo-cross world champion, World Cup mountain bike racer and multi-year German national champion in both disciplines. The company maintains its vision of building bikes by racers, for racers. Its product development team includes a number of accomplished racers, among them Product Manager and former German cyclo-cross champ Jorg Arenz, and works closely with current pros in gathering data and testing new products.

"Focus bicycles like those ridden by Team Milram in this year's professional road peloton will reach the US market by this summer. The German-engineered and assembled road, mountain, cyclocross and time trial/triathlon bikes will deliver the highest quality and technology at prices that guarantee high value to the consumer", says new Focus USA President Rittschof, "

Published @ 10-05-2009


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> Yeah that's what i did, posted to myself from myself, low value on the customs forms etc to avoid tax etc.
> 
> Im in Scotland - should come for a ride  some propa hills....


where are you in Scotland? been on hectic assignments to Glasgow & Edinburgh but still have to explore Scotland properly

after a few years in the desert out here, i honestly miss foggy muggy mossy dampness & cold wind, read a great review about mtn biking in the remote highlands & the Isle of Skye where the trails are/were still mossy (at the time of the article!)

likewise, don't hesitate to let me know if there's something available stateside that you need & i can help speed thing up in anyway

best
cs


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

You've been over to Edinburgh !? Gotta visit if your over soon then.That's where i am but Scotland is fairly small so driving to the Highlands isn't exactly difficult although i've no need as i have a hill range about 5 miles from my house  

Maybe we can swap, having lived in Scotland im feed up of constant rain, howling wind - that's in the summer too!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g 2010 Focus Extreme Hardtail frameset*



dougal.s said:


> Focus don't sell frame-only, certainly not in the UK, and I can't see any frame-only when I look at their German site.
> 
> No doubt they'll do a cheaper full bike that can be stripped and parts sold though.


argh noooh! ....i thought the nifty high modulus carbon Raven Extreme was a frame option for the 09 on the German website on request from dealers? perhaps not then, and the 08 Extreme frameset for sale on revbikes.fr for €1869? ($2,678.72) 2008 is a long time ago now.

when its up & running, Focus usa will probably also want to just shift complete bikes also, have emailed Wiggle UK about a frame only purchase - keeping my fingers XX'd framesets might be available in this err economic climate


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> You've been over to Edinburgh !? Gotta visit if your over soon then.That's where i am but Scotland is fairly small so driving to the Highlands isn't exactly difficult although i've no need as i have a hill range about 5 miles from my house
> 
> Maybe we can swap, having lived in Scotland im feed up of constant rain, howling wind - that's in the summer too!


very nice, if we swapped you'd soon enough get fed up of day after day of cloudless skies, inviting surf & bikini'd volley ball girls chasing balls all over the beach

at the last count there was 8 mountain lions prowling about in the Santa Monica mountains just minutes from our flat, occasionally getting growled at helps me get great times on climbs!

SoCal is a great place to visit... but the constant threat of mega earthquakes, months long 100º heatwaves, really terrible traffic/commuting, chronically polluted air that literally kills thousands a year, a forest fire season that makes the air even worse! and rocket fuel in the tap water can make it not so fun at times.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh yeah sounds terrible mate, dunno how i'd cope with that....

We don't have lions, just neds to put up with


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g 2010 Focus Extreme Framest with BB30*



Le Duke said:


> And yet, you can get a completely stock Cannondale Flash for slightly more, and it will weigh an entire kilogram less.


thanks

alot lighter + BB30, but i don't like Cannondale lefty forks, would'nt mind testing a flash to see if i like the new forks

graphic are too flashy for my taste (perhaps appropriately though)


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> Oh yeah sounds terrible mate, dunno how i'd cope with that....
> 
> We don't have lions, just neds to put up with


neds? ...thought you had haggis's scampering about & getting in yer spokes!


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## moto367 (Nov 20, 2006)

culturesponge said:


> SoCal isa great place to visit but the natives can sometimes be very odd/distant/rude & many of them drive about with guns in their gloveboxes - must be the schooling (or lack of it)


HA HA!!! Yep, sounds just like SoCal.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> thanks
> 
> lighter perhaps, BB30 as well, but the fork is only half there! after owning 21 Vespa's i prefer my mtn bikes to have a more balanced front end & *best performing suspension* (i don't like Cannondale lefty forks)
> 
> i like the design & features of the new 2010 Focus Raven Extreme, those clean lines + internally routed cables give the new frameset a uniquely clean look


Then why are you posting pictures of bikes with RockShox and DT Swiss forks?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*900g Focus Raven Extreme frameset with BB30*



Le Duke said:


> Then why are you posting pictures of bikes with RockShox and DT Swiss forks?


good point!... perhaps i should have photoshopped in Magura Durin's over the Focus product photo's, again i'm not interested in a pre-built bike just a frameset

i posted the last 2 years Crow Extreme's to demonstrate how chuffing brilliant the new frame looks in comparison

Focus Germania never bothered to reply to my email, Focus UK still have only info for 2008 bikes on their cobwebby site, Wiggle UK (Focus's UK distributor) responded to say they deal with complete Focus bikes only and won't have the 2010 models in for some time, finally it looks like Focus usa are a victim of the recession/depression and a non starter

a flash frameset with a decent fork might be an option after all, hope to have better luck with MSC


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## bmf102 (Aug 27, 2007)

Ok so how does one go about getting this frameset in the US?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

bmf102 said:


> Ok so how does one go about getting this frameset in the US?


framesets seem to be unavailable, looks like just complete bikes for 2010 - please correct me if anyone knows differently

unless you have friends/connections in Germany, the only option stateside seems to be to wait for Wiggle UK to stock the 2010 Focus Raven Extreme bike, purchase that then when it arrives keep the parts you want/need & sell the rest

Focus usa is supposed to be up and running soon, well they have a twitter account working

....................edit.................

Focus Deutschland responded to a 2nd email with the following information

Subject: AW: 2010 Focus Raven Extreme frameset
Date: 3 September 2009 05:00:49 PDT

Dear Alex,

thank you for your email.

We offer also only the frame of the "Raven Extreme". Please contact our FOCUS office in Carlsbad regarding the availability in the U.S.:

Focus Bicycles USA, Inc.
6353 Corte del Abeto, Suite B106
Carlsbad, CA 92011
Phone: 760-707-5070

Best regards

Derby Cycle Werke GmbH
Fitzner, Natalia
Empfang
Siemensstrasse 1-3
49661 Cloppenburg
Germany

Tel: +49 (0) 4471 966 0
Fax: +49 (0) 4471 966 44 845
Mob:

E-Mail: [email protected]
Internet: http://www.derby-cycle.de


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*2010 Focus Raven Extreme @ Eurobike*

there's some photos of the 2010 Focus Raven Extreme @ Eurobike 2009

http://www.forum.light-bikes.de/showthread.php?t=9721

spec looks spot-on, well apart from those glamorous white Race Kings & FSA componants


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

*????*

Any updates? Anyone ride it yet? Price? Availability?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

i'm out of the running for one now, was a nice daydream though

the 2010 Raven Extreme won a gold award @ Eurobike

if you want info give Focus a shout on the blower (phone)

Focus Bicycles USA, Inc.
6353 Corte del Abeto, Suite B106
Carlsbad, CA 92011
Phone: 760-707-5070


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Looks great. I doubt it weighs 900g though.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Anyone interrested in a Raven frame ?


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

Details Please.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I can source new Raven Extreme framesets if someone is after one.


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

Tiffster said:


> I can source new Raven Extreme framesets if someone is after one.


I sent you a pm. Are the Raven frames the same for all models? extreme, pro, etc


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I've no idea to be honest. I could most likely get the Pro frame too, i know i can definetly get Extreme's.


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## mr_fox (Feb 4, 2008)

Tiffster said:


> I can source new Raven Extreme framesets if someone is after one.


How £much£? Can you confirm weight? and warranty?


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

Very interested Tiff, I'll drop you a PM.


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## bmf102 (Aug 27, 2007)

PM sent


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't confirm weight, but if i bought one i could put it on the scales first to check etc and take some pics.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

I just bought a hardtail frame that weights 2730g. Transition TransAm.

It is paired with a 5.3lb 150mm fork.

I guess I should be forbidden from reading this thread.


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## TabascoJoe (Aug 22, 2007)

Thats a nice looking frame. Altho my next MTB will be a Ti, I wouldnt mind one at all if I were in the market for a Carbon frame.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

the extreme is one hot looking bike.

a more polished version of my Sworks HT!


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## evil zlayo (Apr 22, 2007)




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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

Hey Tiffster, any updates for us????????


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## Henchman (Sep 22, 2008)

Focus' product manager says frame is actually 1100g to 1280g depending on options/size. Still a cool frame though.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

Henchman said:


> Focus' product manager says frame is actually 1100g to 1280g depending on options/size. Still a cool frame though.


i expected that one. frame looks like a carbon copy of the sworks frame and mine is 1100g


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## $eboss the frenchy (Jun 23, 2004)

ok, but the weight it's for Raven Extreme frame ? 

because I buy a Raven (model around 2200€) Pro to keep only the frame! but what the difference weight between frames?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I can get frame's - but there not cheap!


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## $eboss the frenchy (Jun 23, 2004)

what frame?? extreme?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Yup.


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## $eboss the frenchy (Jun 23, 2004)

already 3000€?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

For just the frame ? No, there a lot cheaper than that.


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## $eboss the frenchy (Jun 23, 2004)

only frame


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

PM if you want a price.


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## Gijs (Sep 21, 2005)

can somebody post any geometry data?
I can't find it anywhere...


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Few weeks ago i bought focus raven extreme 09 large frame and weighted it

It is 1125 gramms with seat clamp + 4 bolts for bottlecage
Also, there is another frame weighted - raven extreme 08 xl - 1140 (frame, without clamp and bolts)


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## $eboss the frenchy (Jun 23, 2004)

http://veloptimal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28523&start=0


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

great write up, photos + video from interbike here:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/11/04...-raven-extreme-carbon-hardtail-mountain-bike/

"Frame only weight has claimed 1,075g" - that sounds more plausible, shame i can't go back and change the title of this thread

....edit to add geometry info on wiggle . co . uk (seemed to be nowhere else).....

Geometry (2010 Raven Series)
Size	With	B	C	D	E	F	G	H	I	J
S/44	440	580	71°	73.5°	425	38	115	470	38	1058
M/48	480	595	71°	73°	425	38	130	470	38	1068
L/52	520	610	70.5°	73°	425	38	140	470	38	1089
XL/56	560	625	70.5°	72.5°	425	38	150	470	38	1099


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Sorry for this....*

I'm terribly sorry to interrupt you guys praising a new superlight frame on the horizon...BUT there is NONE from Focus!

According to german BIKE magazine that just did a comparison test on several 2010 high-end hardtails the Focus frame weighs a hefty *1267g* (size 48cm) !! Stiffness is said to be ok but nothing special and comfort level is rather low compared to other bikes. But the frame price of 3000 Euro is just way too high for what you get.

As i already pointed out many,many times we should always take printed numbers with a grain of salt.

Shown below the different numbers for the tested bikes...there's others that should have been WELL under a Kilo as well but as you can see they too aren't as light as promised.

BUT if Focus wouldn't have announced such a low number early noone would have taken note of their frame.

Shown below in the blue coloured weight-columns from left to right:
Komplett = Total weight of bike with 350g Pedals installed
Rahmen = Frame weight
Laufräder = Weight of wheelset incl. tires/tubes/cassette and skewers
Gabel = Weight of Fork

The other graphic shows the STW and stiffness numbers
blue: STW (stiffness to weight relationship)
red: actual stiffness measured (N/m per millimeter of "flex")


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## kentkreitler (Jul 29, 2006)

Why do they never inculde the Giant XTC Advanced SL in such Lightweight test? My frame in large weighed in at 1140 g that is better than most in that test.


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## evil zlayo (Apr 22, 2007)

this frame? 
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64915


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

kentkreitler said:


> Why do they never inculde the Giant XTC Advanced SL in such Lightweight test? My frame in large weighed in at 1140 g that is better than most in that test.


oh well - meanwhile my 2005 Scott Scale is 5 years old and still only weighs 1002g....it seems all the hype and progress in carbon technology in recent years still hasn't gone much farther than what Scott already offered 5 years ago. No wonder they didn't change a thing on the actual Scale:thumbsup:


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## chucky2 (Apr 4, 2009)

die cannondale flash ist viel stiffer dann die scott
auch die tomac x type ist stiffer


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

chucky2 said:


> die cannondale flash ist viel stiffer dann die scott
> auch die tomac x type ist stiffer


Who the hell cares if a frame is stiffer? It has to be stiff enough to give a good ride, that's it! Storck is a prime example that excessive stiffness is NOT what you want in a HT because it can translate in a unforgiving and uncomfortable ride. Once again ALL testers complained about the stiff and harsh ride the Storck offers. No good trait at all!

It is the ability of the manufacturer to create a stiff frame with enough compliance that makes a frame stand out. Sure C'dale is pretty good but the Scott Scale was and still is rated a frame with perfect mix of stiffness and compliance. Even the "weakest" frames in that comparison test (Trek Elite 9.9 and Orbea) offer enough stiffness that none of the testers had any complaints! Yet at the same time the Trek was one of the least forgiving frames with the pretty bad comfort...

The Cannondale Flash already has 2 major flaws:
According to the german distibutor they had to change the crankset as the SL cranks would make for chainsuck...the now mounted cranks have a wider Q-factor than other dual-ring cranksets as well !
The seatclamp is not able to clamp the seatpost thight enough and has to be replaced with a much sturdier one. And since it has a custom 30,0 size you can't just use a different clamp either.

Besides that - it costs 8000 Euro / 12000 $....c'mon:nono:


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

Nino
did they compare the Raven Extreme frame or the Raven Pro frame?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

scarsellone said:


> Nino
> did they compare the Raven Extreme frame or the Raven Pro frame?


The Extreme!

There's a Video of that test here:
http://video.bike-magazin.de/bikeclips/test

They also had Florian Vogel and Wolfram Kurschat doing timed laps on all bikes. The course was a typical cx-racecourse and they took intermediate times of uphills,downhills etc...all measured with the same tires and with a Powertap rear wheel where they could measure the Watts needed. Each rider did a timed lap on 4 different bikes per day...that's 2 days of testing.

As always pretty a scientific approach by the germans...


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

why was the Scott Scale not on the list?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

scarsellone said:


> why was the Scott Scale not on the list?


They didn't test it. You could as well take the numbers from 2008 as they had the same test-procedure that year too...with its numbers that frame would still rank in the middle of the actual 2010 frames just above the Merida!


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

nino said:


> The Cannondale Flash already has 2 major flaws:
> According to the german distibutor they had to change the crankset as the SL cranks would make for chainsuck...the now mounted cranks have a wider Q-factor than other dual-ring cranksets as well !
> The seatclamp is not able to clamp the seatpost thight enough and has to be replaced with a much sturdier one. And since it has a custom 30,0 size you can't just use a different clamp either.
> 
> Besides that - it costs 8000 Euro / 12000 $....c'mon:nono:


The flaws on the Flash aren't a big deal. Certainly they're less hassle than the Scott's cable routing, front derailleur type, the old fat and heavy seatpost/clamp or the new integrated seatpost.
Be honest Nino, you and most other Scott owners do some serious tweaking on your Scott frames.
The Flash was designed by ex Scott employee Peter Denk so you can take some pride in that.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

limba said:


> The flaws on the Flash aren't a big deal. Certainly they're less hassle than the Scott's cable routing, front derailleur type, the old fat and heavy seatpost/clamp or the new integrated seatpost.
> Be honest Nino, you and most other Scott owners do some serious tweaking on your Scott frames.
> The Flash was designed by ex Scott employee Peter Denk so you can take some pride in that.


Well-the Scales cablerouting is not much different than it is on many other bikes.On my old V-Brake Scale it sucked as i would have extremely long housings also for the brakes....but with discs it is pretty much the standard way cables are mounted on most bikes.We weight-weenies don't like it but it is designed to have continous housings for best mud protection. It is still a minor flaw compared to the weird rear brakehose routing on the Flash...the rear hose goes underneath the BB and makes an odd loop right behind the chainstays. They must have been drinking a lot of beer when designing that routing of the brakehose!

E-Type front derailleurs on the Scales are only a pain for us weight-weenies but that can be resolved easily using regular style derailleurs, also ultralight road derailleurs.The Flash on the other hand has that weird new front derailleur design/standard(direct mount)...nothing i would want on my bike as well.No way to mount anything light at all since the seattube is oval and has all kinds of different shapes...so for now you ar stuck with stock direct mount derailleurs that all weigh around 120g AND on top of that you need a special adapter to make it fit the Flash frame---->out of the window goes the weight advantage of the Flash frameset.

The integrated seatposts on Scales are for nothing-agreed ! But you have the option to get those frames with regular seatposts too so it's basically your choice. Some like the optics of it but for me that's a gimmick which has absolutely no benefit and just adds weight.

I was just referring to those "Flash"-flaws as they ask 12000 $ and you still get a bike with some important flaws. In the german ww-forum there is quite a bit of ranting on the Flash right now. All the hype is a bit vanished also because the weight isn't as low as it was expected. Still-the Pro testers liked the C'dale and Merida the best in that test. Those two definitely offer great bikes in 2010.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Can we have a link to the German WW forum? I can't read/speak it but I'm still interested in having a look around.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

limba said:


> Can we have a link to the German WW forum? I can't read/speak it but I'm still interested in having a look around.


Here you go:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=411763

A Flash with "real" tires (Rocket Ron 2,25") and Pedals weighs ca. 8,2 Kilos.

It seems as XTR PM rear brakes cause some fitting problems:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6408658&postcount=198
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6409834&postcount=201

The mounted 27,2 seatpost weighs 221g BUT is a main part of the frames bump absorbing qualities....so it's basically not the frame but mainly the heavy seatpost giving you that "comfortable" ride they praise.
On top of that it comes with a USE-clamping mechnism which isn't suitable for all saddles.You could not mount a Tune Concorde/Becker Carbon saddle for example.

Here's the mentioned announcement of the specification change of the cranks because of chainsucks.It should have come with some FSA Carbone doubles:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6502273&postcount=341

The rear brake hose routing:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6510804&postcount=361

The direct-mount derailleur with needed adapter.Without this adapter the direct-mount derailleurs can't be mounted on the Flash (can you spell added weight on top of an already heavy derailleur?):
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6550966&postcount=520

The modified/reinforced 30,0mm seatclamp:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=6556287&postcount=534


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nino said:


> Here you go:
> http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=411763
> 
> A Flash with "real" tires (Rocket Ron 2,25") and Pedals weighs ca. 8,2 Kilos.
> ...


why are you making me think about a different frame for my winter project :nono: :madman:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Limon said:


> why are you making me think about a different frame for my winter project :nono: :madman:


sorry for that!

If i had to choose a frame now i guess it would be the Merida or still the Scott Scale (which i know suits me just perfect) I haven't ridden a Merida yet but it really seems to offer the perfect base for a weight-weenie rocketship. The C'dale has just too many custom- and special-standards for my likings. I don't like it when i'm forced to use a given part (fork,stem,front hub,crank,front derailleur,seatclamp,seatpost come to my mind).


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Thanks for the info Nino.


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## jzbig (Apr 25, 2009)

Im pretty shure we will se a new and lighter HT frame from Scott next year


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes. Hopefully they ditch the integrated seatpost and use the double chainring XTR.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

limba said:


> Yes. Hopefully they ditch the integrated seatpost and use the double chainring XTR.


The integrated seatpost is already gone except on the RC version.All others do have regular seatposts now...


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## Sandal (Feb 26, 2004)

nino said:


> oh well - meanwhile my 2005 Scott Scale is 5 years old and still only weighs 1002g....it seems all the hype and progress in carbon technology in recent years still hasn't gone much farther than what Scott already offered 5 years ago. No wonder they didn't change a thing on the actual Scale:thumbsup:


i rode two Scales for last couple of years. 1040 & 1042 for frame and around 8kgs for a bike. quite WW. indeed, very nice and light frames. however early this year i had a chance to demo ride a 2008(09) Raven Extreme frame. i don't have the scientific data for its stiffnes etc., but i could feel IN 100 METERS!!! that it rides better, especially for acceleration. i borrowed the bike from a friend again couple weeks ago and retested it again with about 2 hours of riding (using my wheels) on my favourite 13km loop. indeed, it accelerates better and rides better overall!

well.... believe it or not, but week or so ago my Scale frame cracked on the chainstay :madman: i interpreted it as a sign for 2010 Raven and now you are about to disappoint me so much, Nino.  :skep: i can't believe that manager on Eurobike explicitly lied about 1100 weight, while it's 1260! i think there's an error somewhere. i NEED to see the pic on the scales. if it's that bad indeed i'll go pick some of the "old" Raven FAST before they're instinct.  "old-type" ones are up to 1100g in M veryfied for Extreme and 1260 for "younger" version that i had a chance to weigh myself.

or shall i go look for Merida?...


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## DamDam (Dec 29, 2009)

edit


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DamDam said:


> edit


Insightful first post.


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## DamDam (Dec 29, 2009)

Okay I just wanted to say I will post a picture of an Extreme Frame in "M2, when I will Recive mine at the end of january. As far as I was informed the "real" extreme frames won´t be avialible before january 2010!


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

raven expert M - https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7pIG_QuZhz4/SDvR4ER_1kI/AAAAAAAAAWg/gcHZZJYkEuA/s1600-h/DSC00863.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7pIG_QuZhz4/SDvR_UR_1lI/AAAAAAAAAWo/GfJYKisZgCQ/s1600-h/DSC00862.JPG

So extreme should be lighter... and that's the old model...

I saw up that the fork for Cannondale is 1414 grams? I guess that they are a bit wrong...


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## DamDam (Dec 29, 2009)

I have a 2010 FOCUS Raven Pro bike in medium as a Testbike right now and even this frae weighs in at 1247g (including the tube liners, so it should be at app. 1230g).


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## joe90mccall (May 31, 2004)

Couple of questions.

- I see the 2010 Raven Pro has n XT crainset, how is this working with the BB30 BB?
- Anyone know the diameter of teh seatpost?


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## barbe rousse (Feb 3, 2010)

31,6


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## Sandal (Feb 26, 2004)

finally i had a chance to tauch new Raven frame and bike. Frame alone in XL (21.5-22'') is 1250g. didn't have a chance to weigh M size, as the bike arrived assambled. 8.5 without pedals btw, with 2.2 tires and the boat anchor 200g tubes. Quite nice! so frame alone might be in about 1100g benchmark in comparison to XL's weight.

meanwhile i got old Raven in M and L sizes for me and my wife, they are 1060 and 1130g repectfully. 90g more than my L size scale, but i can live with that as long as the bike is still under 8  And again, old Raven does ride better than my other Scale, amazing! 

i hope to give old and new Ravens a trial ride soon to compare them as well and will comment back again. 

cheers!


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandal said:


> finally i had a chance to tauch new Raven frame and bike. Frame alone in XL (21.5-22'') is 1250g. didn't have a chance to weigh M size, as the bike arrived assambled. 8.5 without pedals btw, with 2.2 tires and the boat anchor 200g tubes. Quite nice! so frame alone might be in about 1100g benchmark in comparison to XL's weight.
> 
> meanwhile i got old Raven in M and L sizes for me and my wife, they are 1060 and 1130g repectfully. 90g more than my L size scale, but i can live with that as long as the bike is still under 8  And again, old Raven does ride better than my other Scale, amazing!
> 
> ...


Any new insight on the Raven?


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## joe90mccall (May 31, 2004)

I have been riding the Raven Pro for a few week, very very good frame.....dont have a weight though. See pic below, I have switched to raceface next carbon chainset and 1*9, rides real well. Getting Raven Extreme on friday, so excited about that, I'll post more when I have it built 

http://focusmtb.blogspot.com/2010/04/team-bike-raven-pro.html


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

evil zlayo said:


> this frame?
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64915


That's not really fair. I saw those pictures of the cracked Giant XTC Advanced SL frame too, but I couldn't find any others. It's not frame that's infamous for cracking like the Orbea Alma.


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

joe90mccall said:


> I have been riding the Raven Pro for a few week, very very good frame.....dont have a weight though. See pic below, I have switched to raceface next carbon chainset and 1*9, rides real well. Getting Raven Extreme on friday, so excited about that, I'll post more when I have it built
> 
> http://focusmtb.blogspot.com/2010/04/team-bike-raven-pro.html


Nice, very nice!
How much would the frame cost?


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## joe90mccall (May 31, 2004)

Raven Pro, not sure, only comes as a complete bikes, Raven Extreme, I beleive its €3000!!


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## joe90mccall (May 31, 2004)

Got the Extreme going. Pics and short description here. F me the bike is quick.....feels very light. Must weight the frame for you all if I strip it down complete.

http://focusmtb.blogspot.com/2010/06/new-upgraded-race-hartail-raven-extreme.html


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Looks faaaaast!


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## Markoj (Sep 26, 2008)

Mine Focus Raven Pro 2010 frame in size "M" with BB30 adaptor to standard thread weights 1341g (without seatpost clamp,headset)


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