# NOX Composites?



## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

Greetings--

I've been looking around at a wheelset upgrade for my XC ride. I came across an ad this morning (on MTBR) for Nox Composites. Looking around on their website, their rims looked like they could be a nice new options for carbon wheels/rims. (disclaimer-- I am not a wheel expert in the slightest!)

They look to be a _*very*_ new company, so I wasn't shocked when google just came up with their own website, and nothing else. I sent them an email this afternoon, and hope to hear back from them soon.

Anybody have thoughts on their rim designs?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey padrefan1982,

Hope we answered your recent questions, let me know if you have any more!

We are a pretty new company - we released our first carbon rim about a month ago, the XCR-29. This rim has been in development for a year and we've been prototyping and testing for about 8 months. The XCR-29 is unique in that it is very wide for an XC rim (23mm internal) and is asymmetric (2.4mm offset flip/flop design so the same rim can be used front or rear). We're big believers in asymmetrical rims and we have some stuff on our website explaining why they build into better wheels. Production rim weights are right around 385g.

Our rims are built with a unique mixture of 3K weave and unidirectional Toray prepreg fiber. We are wrapping the 3K weave around the bead lip to reinforce this area to rim strikes and also using the 3K weave to support drill holes. We also designed our rims specifically to be run tubeless with normal or "tubeless-ready" tires. No thick/heavy tape or rubber rim strips required. 

We're stoked about the rims and just trying to get the word out. All of our employees are engineers or geeky wheel builders, so marketing isn't our forte but we're trying! If anyone is near Knoxville, TN give us a call/email and we'll get you on some demo wheels! We're also looking to sponsor more Elite athletes (Cat 1/Pro), so check out our Grassroots Race Team.

Thanks
Brad
Nox Composites


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

Brad-- You answered all of them! I came up with one today that I'll be emailing you about later.

I'll answer my own question a bit, for others who are curious about NOX. I emailed NOX the same day I posted this topic with a bunch of questions about their rims and company. The same day, Brad offered to call me and discuss everything over the phone. When that didn't work due time issues, he answered all of my questions-- even some tough ones about the newness of their company, and gave me honest (even positive at times) feedback about competitors carbon wheels. Those things convinced me to pick up a wheelset with King hubs from them.

I won't claim to be any sort of expert on wheels, rims, spokes or hubs, but I was impressed by the amount of information to be found on their website, which I feel is a good thing for a new company to have out there. It was detailed and clear enough for me to understand, and has helped me feel pretty great about the wheels I've ordered. When I get some time on them, I'll be sure post my impressions for others.

Just to be clear-- _*I have no relationship with NOX whatsoever*_. Just a guy who's been pretty impressed by what I've seen so far.


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## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

Good to see more carbon rim options popping up. Especially US-built rims.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Hi Brad:

I also saw your ad here and visited your web site and was also quite impressed by what I saw -- not a wheel expert either, and your site did a good job explaining the whys behind your design. I am also glad to see that CF rims are becoming more affordable and commonplace. 

I have some questions:

I eventually want to get a good wheelset for my Trek Superfly AL Elite. I have been looking at Bontrager's Race X Lite. I have never actually ridden them, but I did ride Race Lite, and they are awesome. Your design is similar in that it has an offset spoke bed and bladed spokes. The stock wheels on my bike have the offset spoke bed -- it makes a lot of sense to me. I hardly ever have to true them. 

Ok, my questions :

1. Has any study been done on aerodynamic benefits of bladed spokes on mountain bikes. I am a pilot and understand that air drag is only 1/4th of what it would be if you were 15mpg as opposed to 30, but can't believe that it wouldn't shave a few seconds off a race. (Thanks for your web site for pointing out that bladed spokes are stronger. I didn't know that).

2. My stock wheelset has 28 spokes front/32 rear. I weigh let's say 180 lbs to be conservative. Would this be a good configuration for your wheels?

3. Do the hubs you carry use Centerlock rotors?

4. By bike currently has regular old Quick Release. Do you have thru-bolt options that would work with my bike? Can the hubs be converted to Thru-axle if I change stanchions or frame?

Thanks!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi Dennis,

1. I'm not aware of an aerodynamic study specifically for mountain bikes, but obviously it has an impact to some degree, especially when it's common for average speeds at XC races to be 16-19mph for pro riders and typically there are some extended fast sections (road starts, fireroad descents, etc.). So is it an aero advantage, yes.. is it something you could actually feel, I don't know.. but we don't default to bladed spokes because of aerodynamics, we do it for other reasons, primary weight while keep the wheel strong (like you said, they are stronger than an equivalent weight round butted spoke). They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.

2. I'd push you towards 32/32. We've done a LOT of testing and research about this. The wheel is a system. Just because you have stiff rims does NOT mean you can "save some weight" with less spokes. In fact, stiff rims will make flexy spokes more obvious to you when it comes to noticing deflection opposite of wheel loading. If you're on a 29er, you need all the lateral stiffness you can get, period. I promise you you'll be faster with a extremely solid feeling front wheel (a good carbon rim with 32 spokes) than you would be by saving ~20g to go with 28 holes. Even at 32 spokes we still have wheelsets under 1450g. And these are not noodle race day only wheels, these are extremely stiff wheels. Making stiff rims and wheels is really the primary reason we got into this.

3. No, but we will build with any hub you want. DT or Shimano are both good options if you want centerlock. You can even send in your existing hubs. Or of course you can buy our rims and have your local wheel builder handle it too. Our rims use standard spokes and standard nipples, so experienced wheel builders won't have any problems building with them. We're flexible (except for our rims.. which are stiff!) 

4. Yes, American classic has a 9mm thru-axle hub option. It's not a configuration we keep in stock but we can order it for you in just a few days. King does not offer a 9mm thru option. And again, we are happy to customize a build for you using whatever hubs you want. We like AC hubs because they are very light and have been reliable for us, and for those less concerned with weight, we feel like Kings are the best you can buy from a durability and engagement point of view.

And just for full transparency - our rims are not made in the US as someone noted above. We do final finishing, decals, QC and wheel building by hand in Tennessee. Unfortunately we wouldn't be able to sell rims of this quality at this price point if they were made in the US. It's something we looked into very hard, and it's a sad fact, but as many of you know, making carbon rims is a very labor intensive process. 

Thanks!
Brad
Nox Composites


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Cool. Im interested in sponsorship... Maybe my whole team too. 

I represent well, just winning the Us Cup East/SERC series as a cat 1 this season.

Ill shoot you an email!
John


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Just to add a bit to this thread, I recently set up a dealer account with NOX and received a set of rims to build and review for Singletracks (On Test blog post coming soon). The rims arrived early this week, it'll be next week before I get them built and on the trail.

The fit and finish is very nice. Consistent ERD measurements (tho my #s were different than their published number, as with ANY rim - always measure before buying spokes!). Mine were both right on target with weight - 383g and 385g. Schweeeet. They are VERY stiff, I'm looking forward to hitting the trails on 'em.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

I recently received a demo XCR-29 wheelset to try out. I haven't had a chance to ride them yet, but I'm VERY impressed with the design and the quality. I'll post up a review soon.


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

To add on some initial impressions. I got my wheels this week, but due to school starting back up (teacher) I haven't been abel to get much time on them... should get some trail time tomorrow, but what I've noticed already:


Rim quality is great from what I can tell. Look beautiful, and if you care about these kind of things, their decals should lift off easy (I like 'em though)
Tubeless tape was preinstalled, and the Nox rims were the fastest tubeless install I've done. What I didn't expect was that one of my tires would not hold a seal with the old Roval rim, but on a whim, I tried the tire on the Nox, and bam; sealed up first time. Rim width seemed to help with the install as well, as the tire beads didn't have to 'fight' for space with the valve stem.
They're stiff. I don't have a lot (read: no) of experience with other carbon rims, but these far exceed other nice aluminum rims I've run (ACs, Stans, etc) They kill the stock wheels they replaced-as they should!
Weight was right on. I picked up a complete wheels from them and the weight was with-in the range given on the website.
What I've noticed in 5 -7 miles I have on them is that I'm spinning faster gears, which is awesome. I was a full 1 mph faster on the short Strava trail section I have been able to ride so far. Only change has been the wheels.


None of this should be a surprise, I feel like, since these aren't cheap. But so far, I feel like they're worth every penny. I'll have more info on them when I get some real trail time during the labor day weekend.

Just my 2 cents.


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## gregorio (Sep 19, 2004)

I have been looking at Carbon wheels for my Carbon Superfly for over a year. There are certainly many good offerings and in the last 6 mos or so price points of many wheels have become more reasonable. I had almost decided on Enve but was hesitant due to price and width of their XC wheel (24mm out/18mm in). The AM wheel is a good width (30mm out/ 24mm in) and is still a few grams lighter with Chris King Hubs than Nox Composites. 

I have had Chris King hubs on all my bikes for over 12 years now and that availability is an important consideration for me with carbon wheels. Due to cost of carbon with the availability of building with CK I have also been considering going back with a Stan's rim. But now seeing Nox composites, their building philosophy, price and location ( I am in the south) I am going to put in my order for a set. When I receive the wheels I will provide an update and eventual review.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Got mine laced up finally. Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, 32H, Revolution spokes all around. 1,582g. I'll have some miles on 'em by the end of the week.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

That's some serious bling Dustin. Nice work!


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

You know,
There are some of us the still run our 26ers out there. Maybe not for XC, but I could be interested in a carbon rim.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> You know,
> There are some of us the still run our 26ers out there. Maybe not for XC, but I could be interested in a carbon rim.


Deflexion Racing

^^they're on Instagram too, username deflexionracing


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## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

When are the 650B rims available?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We are finalizing the 650B prototypes this week! Currently our AM-275 is running 27mm internal width and will run about 415 grams. We will have them available in about 2 months once they pass all our testing.

Other near-term plans include an AM-29 rim ~27mm internal width and bit beefier build and an XCR-275 rim at 23mm internal width and ~350ish gram weight. All rims will be asymmetrical.

We aren't anti-26 or anything, just starting with what has the highest market demand.

Brad
Nox Composites


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## Jab70 (Mar 23, 2007)

ok!! are you gonna make this am 29 rim big enough for chunky boys????


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Boy this has me thinking about a set!!

Would also be interested in saving some green by going with Revs or Supercomps.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

The rims look really nice and I'm stoked to see some more carbon rim options popping up. Nice going. :thumbsup:
I do have to make a couple of corrections to your claims about bladed spokes:


NoxComposites said:


> 1. I'm not aware of an aerodynamic study specifically for mountain bikes, but obviously it has an impact to some degree, especially when it's common for average speeds at XC races to be 16-19mph for pro riders and typically there are some extended fast sections (road starts, fireroad descents, etc.). So is it an aero advantage, yes.. is it something you could actually feel, I don't know.. but we don't default to bladed spokes because of aerodynamics,


From an aerodynamic perspective, you would be much better served by wearing an aero helmet than going for bladed vs. round spokes when they're running behind a 2.0(+) knobby mountain bike tire that is tearing up the air.


HillDancer said:


> (like you said, they are stronger than an equivalent weight round butted spoke).


While the extra step of turning a round spoke into a bladed one does add some amount of yield strength to the spokes, spokes do not fail by exceeding yield strength... not even close, and this "added strength" is not something that translates into wheels, so this claim is somewhat misleading.
The bottom line is that bladed spokes *do not* build a wheel any stronger _*or stiffer*_ than equivalent round spokes.
I will add that the additional surface area of bladed spokes makes them *much* more likely to encounter rock or stick strikes and the process that made them "stronger" also made them more brittle.



HillDancer said:


> They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.


I'll say that this is just wrong. Making a bladed spoke out of a round one does not change the elasticity of the steel, which is what would be required to produce the effect you claim. That said, since you seem fairly well versed, I'd entertain whatever it is that led you to this conclusion, even though it is incorrect.
I'm not at all trying to be combative, just helpful in getting what is already a pretty solid looking pitch to more factual accuracy, and I do recognize that there are many people in the bike industry that have mistakenly prescribed to these beliefs about bladed spokes.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites
> 
> They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.





meltingfeather said:


> I'll say that this is just wrong. Making a bladed spoke out of a round one does not change the elasticity of the steel,...


I think you two are talking about different things. Nox is referring to the ability of the spoke to resist bending, you are referring to stretchy-ness. The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.

If you don't care about aerodynamics, mount the blades sideways, or alternate 

Nox -- what is your philosophy on linear-pull spokes (or whatever you call it -- hubs that do not require the spoke to be bent)?

Wheel Building Philosophy | Nox Composites


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

DennisF said:


> The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.


That doesn't matter, for two reasons. One, the spoke can pivot in the hub flange, it's not a hard/fixed joint. But mostly, it doesn't matter because the spokes work in tension, not bending, so the elasticity is what matters. If you take a round spoke and flatten it, it still has the same cross section area (it's just a different shape) and therefore the same "stretch" for a given load.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

DennisF said:


> I think you two are talking about different things. Nox is referring to the ability of the spoke to resist bending, you are referring to stretchy-ness. The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.


I'm glad you mentioned this, because it is another misconception about bladed spokes, and really spokes in general; that spoke bending plays any role in a wheel's response to load (it does not).
dgaddis1 is right on.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

dgaddis1 said:


> That doesn't matter, for two reasons. One, the spoke can pivot in the hub flange, it's not a hard/fixed joint. But mostly, it doesn't matter because the spokes work in tension, not bending, so the elasticity is what matters. If you take a round spoke and flatten it, it still has the same cross section area (it's just a different shape) and therefore the same "stretch" for a given load.


I disagree with you. This bladed spoke is the fastest and strongest









Because it's *RED*


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

All spoke opinions aside I'm very anxious to hear and see more about these rims!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Ya, I don't want this thread to turn into a spoke debate. In the end, we make rims, not spokes so that's where we focus most of our attention. Who knows why people latch on to these small details with religious zeal, but I'll give the poor little cx-ray a bit of defense.

First, we are spoke agnostic. If you read our website and came away thinking we will ONLY build with cx-rays or other bladed spokes then you are taking it the wrong way. We frequently recommend other spokes based on the unique requirements of the rider/terrain. For racers, or riders wanting to save weight, we frequently do recommend the cx-ray for 2 reasons:

1. Sapim claims ~3x improved fatigue life for the CX-Ray versus the laser. Based on our own anecdotal evidence when compared to a laser (same weight butted spoke), we see less cx-rays break than lasers. Now before you all attack your keyboards with "but spokes don't break because they reach the end of their fatigue life!!!" ya ya, we know that, but the fact remains we've seen more lasers break than cx-ray. Not really sure why.. well, we do have some theories but let's save that for a different thread.
2. The additional cost is small compared to the overall cost of the wheelset, so we recommend the cx-ray over the laser if you are looking for a lightweight spoke (which almost all our customers are) because we feel it's more durable. Simple as that.

One more point is that it's much easier to build with a light bladed spoke versus a 1.5mm round spoke because you can hold the bladed spoke as you tighten the nipple. You don't have to deal with windup. Making the wheel builder's life easier usually results in a happy wheel builder, which results is a better build.

I know I dodged the claim of torsional stiffness... that claim is based on discussions with a DT swiss engineer. While we do respect this engineer, we also agree the math predicts the stiffness should be unchanged if a cx-ray is just a reshaped laser. So ya, we need to shake this out - we have an inquiry in now with DT and we'll reference the claim or at least substantiate it if DT has data to back this up. Keep in mind that a small change in torsional stiffness is not something you can "feel" on the bike. This is why we normally build 2X on 29ers - because while it sacrifices torsional stiffness it improves lateral stiffness.

Thanks guys,
Brad


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Who knows why people latch on to these small details with religious zeal, but I'll give the poor little cx-ray a bit of defense.


The zealotry seems always to be on the side of people who lack facts and/or knowledge. It's all pretty simple stuff from a structural and materials standpoint, though I recognize that materials and structural analysis are understood by a small percentage of the general population.
The allusion to religion is funny, because religion is based on faith, which is what you need to believe in something you don't understand or can't explain.
I assume these comments are aimed at me, since I'm the one that challenged your incorrect claims about bladed spokes.
Rather than offer any kind of explanation or justification, you've come back by suggesting fanatical obsession with details. Weak ass sauce, but whatevs. It seemed for a minute like you might know what you're talking about and I was hoping to maybe learn something... another day. 



NoxComposites said:


> First, we are spoke agnostic. If you read our website and came away thinking we will ONLY build with cx-rays or other bladed spokes then you are taking it the wrong way.


Bladed spokes are all you mention, and you sort of carry on a out the merits of them, so it doesn't seem like a crazy conclusion to arrive at, even though I hadn't read your website until just now and didn't mention it.
You also in this thread have touted bladed spokes as the best of the best.
"Spoke agnostic" vs. the "religious zealots" is funny, even if you got the roles reversed.


NoxComposites said:


> The additional cost is small compared to the overall cost of the wheelset, so we recommend the cx-ray over the laser if you are looking for a lightweight spoke (which almost all our customers are) because we feel it's more durable. Simple as that.


Lasers are $1 a piece. CX Rays are typically $3.50, which is $160 difference for 64 spokes. Small is subjective, but if you're doing it for the new reason of "easier to build" that seems like a hard sell on a wheel customer.
"Hey, spend 3x on spokes so I can have an easier time building with them." :skep:
I don't find Lasers/Revos to be that difficult to build with.


NoxComposites said:


> I know I dodged the claim of torsional stiffness... that claim is based on discussions with a DT swiss engineer. While we do respect this engineer, we also agree the math predicts the stiffness should be unchanged if a cx-ray is just a reshaped laser. So ya, we need to shake this out - we have an inquiry in now with DT and we'll reference the claim or at least substantiate it if DT has data to back this up. Keep in mind that a small change in torsional stiffness is not something you can "feel" on the bike. This is why we normally build 2X on 29ers - because while it sacrifices torsional stiffness it improves lateral stiffness.


:skep:
I've heard the same thing from a DT rep and agree that it is bogus.
If you don't agree and you do other things that compromise it (the 2x vs. 3x thing is correct), then it's kind of hard to understand why you would throw it out there, unless you're in the habit of blowing smoke, in which case it would also be difficult to take the anecdotal evidence of CX Rays lasting longer seriously.
Both Sapim and DT have the challenge of selling bladed products for the mountain bike market at a HUGE premium. They have to come up with some justification, and this is where this misinformation originates. I'd be skeptical of what they have to say unless it is backed up by something unbiased.

I still like your rims.
Good luck with it. :thumbsup:


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## JIMSLICK (Nov 19, 2012)

Man melting feather you should release some of that anger by going for a bike ride


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

JIMSLICK said:


> Man melting feather you should release some of that anger by going for a bike ride


lol
What a tired ass comment... and as comments like that so often are, way off the mark.
Why even waste the time?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Well this thread went south! Might as well go over to the cheap Chinese rim thread at least I get to see a bunch of broken rims.


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## gregorio (Sep 19, 2004)

*Received my wheels*

I received my wheels on Friday. I had them built by Nox Composites with Chris King hubs. The quality of the rim and the build is very nice. I have 2 rides on them consisting of 1 longish climb and a bunch of short punchy climbs with a lot of rocks and roots. Also some fast smooth single track with some good cornering. My observations thus far:

1. The wheels are very, very stiff. In corners, monster trucking down rocky steeps, and climbing.

2. They make my full squishy climb more like a hard tail.

3. They seem lighter than their advertised weight of ~1594g. I don't know if that is from the stiffness or what but they just seem light.

4. The wheels spin up to speed really quickly and hold speed well.

I am going on a 3 day mtb trip later this week and will put many more miles on this wheel set. I expect to be even more impressed with the quality, ride and price with this wheel set.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Greg, what is your opinion on linear-pull hubs/spokes?

TIA


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## gregorio (Sep 19, 2004)

DennisF said:


> Greg, what is your opinion on linear-pull hubs/spokes?
> 
> TIA


I am certainly not a wheel expert but will provide my opinion as you asked. J-bend spokes are easier to repair or adjust on the trail or at home and typically do not require proprietary tools and proprietary parts. From an engineering perspective (I am not an engineer) linear pull spokes seem to be a great option and seemingly would be under less stress at the hub. I have actually never broken a spoke at the J-bend, it has always been somewhere along the length of the spoke or at the nipple. I have had wheels with both linear pull spokes and J-bend spokes. All the hand built wheels with J-bend spokes have held up very well in comparison to some other wheels I have had in the last 15 years.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

*Well Done!!*

Received my Nox wheelset today and oh my these turned out sweet!! Very excited to get them out and pound the crap out of em!!


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## YogiKudo (May 12, 2013)

This is why OEMs mostly refrain from posting on MTBR. Nice job.


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## gregorio (Sep 19, 2004)

Great looking wheels bdundee! I have put ~90 miles mile on my Nox Composites wheels since receiving a couple weeks ago. I have ridden just about every type of terrain, smooth, fast and flowy, slow, rocky, rooty and technical and everything in between. I am really pleased with the overall performance. They are the stiffest xc wheels I have ridden to date, including 26ers. Tubeless setup with Ardent (f) and Ikon (r) was a breeze. Have fun putting them to the test!


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

YogiKudo said:


> This is why OEMs mostly refrain from posting on MTBR. Nice job.


Heh. Yes, sometimes it can be tempting to get into technical minutia that has little relevance.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Shipping this set out to a customer today. Polished silver White Industries hubs, silver Revolution spokes, black alloy nipples. Looks way better in person than my iPhone camera can capture. Going on a titanium Form Prevail, should look sweeeeet!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Those will look great on a Ti bike! You don't see those hubs very often but they are quite nice.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

I would love to see some 26 all mountain love from you guy's!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

These things are friggen fast


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

bdundee: what are your initial thoughts on the hubs? Also, thoughts on the Panaracers set up tubeless?

Bike and wheels look great!


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

The bike now feels like a 26 inch in the fast twisty stuff :thumbsup:










dgaddis1 said:


> Shipping this set out to a customer today. Polished silver White Industries hubs, silver Revolution spokes, black alloy nipples. Looks way better in person than my iPhone camera can capture. Going on a titanium Form Prevail, should look sweeeeet!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mnyquist said:


> bdundee: what are your initial thoughts on the hubs? Also, thoughts on the Panaracers set up tubeless?
> 
> Bike and wheels look great!


Thanks! The Panaracers set up beautiful tubeless, very very tight fit and have been holding air great almost got them to seat with a floor pump but I didn't feel like working that hard. I know they are actually going to switch the line to tubeless ready soon but these had no sidewall leaks and really with some rims going hookless what does the bead really have to do with anything anyways. Maybe someone could explain that knows more.

As far as the hubs, I have been on I9's for a few years and love em. I know the Torch hubs have been giving a few fits but so was the last model when they first came out but I never had a problem plus they are very easy to take apart and service.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

slowandlow said:


> The bike now feels like a 26 inch in the fast twisty stuff :thumbsup:


Sweet ride!!


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

Thanx!


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## erwin.91 (Feb 27, 2007)

Have a set of 29er rims coming to Belgium, can't wait !!!


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## progolferv1 (Sep 4, 2013)

Wheels look very interesting. Trying to decide between these the Enve xc or the Easton ec 90. Any thoughts on those wheels? how the compare on ride and stiffness?


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

I just sold a set of Enve XC 29er wheels. I am building a new bike with the Nox rims and I9 hubs. I will report back as soon as the build is done. The Enve rims are great, no question, but I am interested to see how the Nox compare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Nox, what is your opinion on linear-pull spokes?

TIA.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

progolferv1 said:


> Wheels look very interesting. Trying to decide between these the Enve xc or the Easton ec 90. Any thoughts on those wheels? how the compare on ride and stiffness?


I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

bdundee said:


> ...Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.


+1 Easton makes great carbon parts, but their hubs have had issues. Would be nice if they sold just rims.

DT Swiss has some new carbon rims coming out soon too, but I'm not sure on pricing on those yet.


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## Shockbuster (Aug 19, 2010)

Keen to read the comparison between the Enve`s and Nox rims.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

DennisF said:


> Nox, what is your opinion on linear-pull spokes? TIA.


No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

bdundee said:


> I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.


There are some excellent choices these days. All brands mentioned make great stuff.

We've gone wider across the line (23mm XC and 27mm+ AM internal width) while trying to keep weight in check, and of course the primary difference is that our rims are asymmetrical. This point often gets overlooked, but it's an important feature. For a typical hub like a King or I9, our rims will build into wheels ~8% more stiff laterally (net) than an equivalent symmetric rimmed wheel by shifting the DS and NDS bracing angles.

The rim offset also equalizes spoke tension between the drive and non-drive side which will give you a more durable wheel that's less likely to come de-tensioned and out of true over time.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ? Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.

Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

madskatingcow said:


> Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ?


I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking?


madskatingcow said:


> Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.


This is true, but hopefully not much of a factor. 



madskatingcow said:


> Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering


In general I think asym rims have a solid theoretical basis, unlike much cycling gadgetry. Holy grail is a stretch that I don't think NOX is claiming. In general I think symmetrical rims are working fine, so there's not a lot of motivation for many manufacturers.
I posted up a comparative figure that showed the tension balancing result of my Bontrager Dusters once upon a time.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yep, no claims of holy grails being found here. meltingfeather is of course correct that symmetric rims are working out just fine, this is a small (but measurable) effect. 

Front and rear disc wheels are dished towards opposite sides of each other, so I think many manufacturers have tried to avoid two different rims (front and rear specific) in order to address this. We have too, which is why our offset is on the mild side - that way you can use the same rim front or rear by flipping it around. We didn't invent this idea and we aren't the only ones doing this, it's just something that (currently) makes us different from many other carbon mountain rims. It's all about small changes and optimizations that add up to a better wheel and ultimately a faster/stronger bike.


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## progolferv1 (Sep 4, 2013)

thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

progolferv1 said:


> thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic


I was wrestling with the same question. I also considered Hope Pro II. I am going with the I9. My reasoning was the engagement of the I9. Time will tell if I get annoyed by the sound of them (although I have Hope hubs on my fat bike, and they don't bother me.)

Also, I have had American Classic hubs in the past. I found them to be reliable and quiet. Engagement was just a little slow.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I've always enjoyed the sound and actually once you get tires on them they get a lot quieter, just a nice buzzing sound. And if you get them and you don't like the sound just don't stop peddling


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

meltingfeather said:


> I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking


I was thinking that with J-bend spokes, the spoke slightly bends against the hub-flange when mounted, causing stress at the flange, as well as at the nipples / rim because the spoke isn't 100% optimal aligned (reason they do asymetrical drilling). With straight pull spokes, there is no bending of the spoke against the hub flange, and the spoke can follow more it's optimal course. Just thinking


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.

madskatingcow, as I've said before we look at wheels/rims from the standpoint of maximizing lateral stiffness. We figure why would someone pay more for a carbon rim when you can get an aluminum rim of the same weight much cheaper? The answer is because they want a stiffer wheel! Durability comes into play too, but we see that as icing on the cake. 

There is only so much flange width you can work with, and to make the wheels as stiff laterally as possible you want your spokes to be as far toward the outside of the wheel as possible. J-bend spokes do create more stress on the J-bend and hub flange, but all modern hubs are designed to handle this stress. As far as stress at the nipple with bracing angles increase, that's true too - but this is something good wheelbuilders address already (they file the holes slightly as necessary to improve the nipple exit angle). What it boils down to is that the problems being "solved" by straight pull aren't really problems. That is, hubs aren't cracking, and modern j-bend spokes/nipples have been proven reliable. So why would you give up lateral stiffness to go that route? That's the logic we used when selecting hubs to offer our customers. We also like the fact that you can walk into any LBS and pick up a replacement J-bend spoke if needed.

Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

NoxComposites said:


> The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.


I agree on the bike I can hardly hear them.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!


I agree 100%.
A sort of irony in my posts is that, while I do discuss the minutia of the technical aspects of wheels out of interest and because there's so much misinformation out there, I'm of the general opinion (and my posts bear this out) that very little of this matters at all.
:thumbsup:


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.


Thanks.

I read in an old wheelbuilding book that the spoke holes in a hub will wear to a larger diameter over time. They apparently make little brass bushings to fix that problem when respoking wheels. Is that still a problem? If so, it seems that linear-pull would solve that.

Longevity is a big factor to me.

Who'da thought a "simple" wheel can be so complicated?


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

Ordered up some NOX composites myself to try. Having Dave at Speeddream build them.

Hadley hubs, XX1, Daves choice on spokes (he typically uses a heavier gauge on the disc and drive side and lighter on the non-drive and non-disc).

Probably a good two weeks out however...


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## Blk02 (Apr 15, 2006)

Have a few questions for NOX

1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box? 
2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
3) What kind of testing do your rims go through compared to Enve's test videos?

Thanks


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

*Quick Review of my Nox/Kings*

As the OP for this thread, now that I have a couple of months on my set, I figured I should share my impressions:
I'm no expert on wheels, and my impressions are of the standard King build that Nox is selling. I won't be able to talk about rims alone. With that said:

These are the stiffest wheels I've ever ridden. (I have ridden AmClassic All-Mountain, i9s with Arches... no Enves though) My Epic's rear wheel always seemed to have some "give" in it, but that feeling was gone the moment I installed the Nox wheels. I will say that I am running the front hub on just a 9mm QR, so when I find the cash I will be upgrading that-- but they are stiffer (in my mind) then other wheels I've run with 15mm thrus.

Along with being stiff, they are snappy. The limited power I put to the pedals makes the bike jump forward. I've also noticed I'm faster climbing up long forest road climbs-- one being around 10 miles, 3,000 feet. I'm sure thats a combination of the snap in the wheels and the lightness of them as well.

Tubeless has been stupid easy, and rock solid. I've had to use a compressor, but that's been my MO for all my tubeless installs.

I'm loving the King hubs. These are my first set, and I've only adjusted them once--the day they went on the bike. I'm a huge fan of the engagement (super helpful on my Epic with its lowish BB) and the famous "Angry Bee" sound.

I haven't needed to get in contact with the boys at Nox since my wheels arrived, but its worth noting again that every contact I've had with them was nothing short of outstanding. That alone, is worth the upcharge from the "cheap Chinese rims."

I was looking at Rovals or these, and now with a bunch of miles on the Noxs, I'm very confident I made the right choice for me.

Thanks for reading!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for the review padre!



Blk02 said:


> Have a few questions for NOX
> 
> 1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box?
> 2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
> ...


1) Because we don't currently offer DT 240s.  Possibly in the future.

2) I can't really answer that question completely as I don't know Enve's rationale for not having a weight limit. We think it makes sense to let riders know what kind of rider we had in mind when we designed the rim. So for example, the XCR-29 rim is recommended for XC riding for riders < 240lb. Does that mean it is going to break if someone 241lb rides it? No, but there is more to it than maintaining a large safety margin. We're also considering if the rim will build into a wheel that meets our high stiffness standards for the specified application. We don't want someone 300lbs riding one of our XCR rims because it won't give them the best riding experience - they should be on a beefier AM rim. And we are working on AM rims in all sizes now! The task of matching the rider with the right wheel components is something that good wheelbuilders are excellent at. Our weight limit helps those builders decide which of our rims to recommend for a given application.

3) A lot. Which is why it took us 8 months to release the XCR-29 and as of today we've been developing the AM-275 for 6 months and just now entering production phases. Static compression loading, static spoke pull-though, bead forces from tire, dynamic rim impact (built wheel, no tire) and dynamic wheel impact (built wheel with a 2.2 tire tubeless at various pressures). Destructive testing is done during development and periodically with samples pulled from production runs. Nondestructive testing is done with production samples with higher frequency. We also use our sponsored pro athletes to give final production candidates a good thrashing!

Thanks guys,
Brad


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

I got my Nox wheels with I9 hubs yesterday. I am using Rocket Ron SS front and rear. Front seated with a floor pump . I had to replace the tape on the rear, as it was cut and air was leaking.

I am going to ride this weekend. They look great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.

NOX Composites makes a solid rim :thumbsup:
Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel :thumbsup:


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

slowandlow said:


> I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
> An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.
> 
> NOX Composites makes a solid rim :thumbsup:
> Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel :thumbsup:


Glad you're still enjoying them!


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

*Ok kids, mine showed up finally.*

Finally got my hoops today. Had Dave at Speeddream lace these up. Always have felt he builds the best hoops out there and glad to have him lace these up.

Last year I tried the Enve AM's, this year had the Roval Trail SL 29ers. I like wider rims.

Wanted to like the Rovals, but kept snapping rear spokes off down at the head. Specialized and my local shop was GREAT about warranty.

Not doing the full review as of yet. But basics on these. Nox Composites 29ers, Dave's blend of spokes for my 190-205lb carcass. (2.0/1.8 drive side rear and front disc, 2.0/1.5 non drive and front non disc.

Hadley Hubs, XX1 driver body. Blue alloy nipples.

Weight - 900 rear (with tape and valve) 760 front (with valve and tape).

Initial impressions. Stiffer than the rovals. Definitely deeper than the rovals. I think they are a bit wider internally though both are listed 23.

Tubeless set-up - easiest I've ever had. Loved the definitive POP when inflating. Specialized were also pretty easy to set-up. The Enve were a bit harder.

Will do a more complete review after more miles.


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

Cool!
Will be interesting to see a first hand comparison against the other carbon offerings.

Nox XCR 29
2.0/1.5 Dt swiss
White Industries Hubs
Tape and valves.
912g Rear
743g Front


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Green Giant said:


> Finally got my hoops today. Had Dave at Speeddream lace these up. Always have felt he builds the best hoops out there and glad to have him lace these up.
> Not doing the full review as of yet. But basics on these. Nox Composites 29ers, Dave's blend of spokes for my 190-205lb carcass. (2.0/1.8 drive side rear and front disc, 2.0/1.5 non drive and front non disc.
> Hadley Hubs, XX1 driver body. Blue alloy nipples.
> Weight - 900 rear (with tape and valve) 760 front (with valve and tape).
> ...


Nice!! You got the best wheel builder in the world, well, IMHO.
Dave's wheels rock.


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

Yeah, put 20 miles on yesterday but playing hookey this AM to go out and hammer them some more before the snow flies here.

Dave is the best, or at least no one out there is better...


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## Napalm100 (May 26, 2013)

Hopefully NoxComposites will see this: any further information on an AM29 rim?

I might be really interested in an AM29! 

Thanks


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

Ok,

Will you guys consider 5 hours of ride time enough for an initial review and comparison to the Enve's and Roval Trail SL 29ers?

First a review. Last year I rode the Enve AM/DT 240/Sapim X-Ray spokes combo.

They were stiff, pretty light, and nice and wide. They were a pain to set-up tubeless with a few combos, and truing them (I knocked the rear out) was a royal pain in the ass as you had to pull the tire, tubeless tape, true them up, and re-install. I also don't love bladed spokes, but can go either way. 

Ride wise - stiff as could be (which I like on a dually at 195 lbs) and the width was great. 

Cost - astronomical, BUT U.S.A. built rims which is nice. 

Roval Trail Carbon SL 29er - Back in May after a couple months I loved them. 80% as stiff as the Enves, still a decent width, nice weight, same 240 style hubs and a good value. Cost no object I would steer enve over these, but considering cost, I felt the rovals are the better value. They are china built rims. In june... I started breaking rear spokes. EASY to replace with the straight spokes. Trued back up easily, but then I found the rear wheel to keep losing tension. Then the spoke breaking carosel started up. I broke at least 8 spokes this year. Mounting tubeless was easier than Enve, but not as easy as the NOX so far. 

Specialized eventually warranted the entire wheelset which was AWESOME. My local shop was GREAT about it. But, I did sell them and move on... I wanted a faster engaging hub again.

I still think the Roval's are a nice value and the warranty is great. They were stiffer than most alloy wheels I've ridden but not quite the Enve's. Lighter.

That brings me to the NOX/Hadley/Speeddream build.

I can't tell you a darn thing about long-term durability at this point. I jumped them today and pounded them pretty good but only have 5 hours on them. So far, so good.

Ride wise, I know they claim 23mm internal and in my rush to ride them I didn't bother to measure but they sure seem wider than the rovals which are also a claimed 23. I would need to measure them, but I'm 90% sure they are wider and deeper.

Tubeless set-up - best I've ever experienced. Specialized Ground Control 29 x 2.3 (a great tire) a bit tight to get on the rim, but the center channel helped on these. A bit of soapy water on the rim to help them bead up and they SNAPPED into place. Dead center also. No sagging bead etc.

Weight - lighter than the enve, and while I'm going from memory they are as stiff, or very, very close to it. I felt the same about the Rovals early on, but having just come off of those the NOX are stiffer, no question. Could also be Dave at speeddreams build.

Cost wise - these are a bargain and I was able to go with Hadley hubs (nothing wrong with DT swiss and the DT's are easy to work on and more easily switched between formats) but the faster engagement I do like. The little piece they use to make sure the valve stem is level is also a nice touch. I had no leaks through the spoke holes, and lost no pressure overnight. 

Small new company, which is a bit of a concern but I think these guys will be around for a while if they manage the business right. Assuming these are durable long term, they are a bargain.

If US built is important (and I prefer it myself) then the Enve's are very nice, but honestly I couldn't tell anyone to get the Enve's over the Nox at this point, cost considered. You could get a couple back-up rims almost for the same price. I also think internal nipples are a pain in the ass, but hopefully you won't need to true any of these up too much.

So, hopefully they hold up. Early on I was enamored with the bargain of the rovals. I've seen a few threads of spokes breaking on others, so I'm not isolated. No clue if it's the hub (could an angle be drilled wrong?) the spokes (bad batches do happen), or something else like the build. Can't rip specialized as they stood behind them.

Digging the Nox so far.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

BR is saying 24mm wide

Unboxed & Weighed: Nox Composites? Wide Carbon Mountain Bike Rims


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

bdundee said:


> BR is saying 24mm wide
> 
> Unboxed & Weighed: Nox Composites? Wide Carbon Mountain Bike Rims


The label at the valve hole says ISO 622 X 23.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Ronnie said:


> The label at the valve hole says ISO 622 X 23.


Yup mine do to but take this up with bike rumor

Claimed widths are 30mm outside/23mm inside/25mm depth. Ours measured in at just over 31mm wide and 24mm inside. That made the already monstrous Honey Badger look positively menacing. It didn't care.


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## bicyclemark (Feb 5, 2009)

I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

bicyclemark said:


> I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?


Try removing the valve core first, this lets a air flow in much faster. If it works, pump it up to about 30psi then take the pump head off the valve, stop the air with your finger, and put the valve core back in. You can get it back in without losing much air surprisingly.

If that doesn't work, use some soapy water to lubricate the tire bead and rim tape, which will make it easier for the bead to slip into place.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

dgaddis1 said:


> Try removing the valve core first, this lets a air flow in much faster. If it works, pump it up to about 30psi then take the pump head off the valve, stop the air with your finger, and put the valve core back in. You can get it back in without losing much air surprisingly.
> 
> If that doesn't work, use some soapy water to lubricate the tire bead and rim tape, which will make it easier for the bead to slip into place.


A couple other things to try if this doesn't work:

I've found that new, out of the box Schwalbes sometimes tricky to mount initially if the sidewall isn't straightening out all the way. I had this last weekend with a Rocket Ron when I was trying to get it to pop into place on an Enve AM rim. I ended up putting a tube in and mounting the tire and leaving it like this overnight. In the morning I took the tube out, put a little soapy water on the bead, and then it snapped right into place.

Using an air compressor helps a lot. The Lezyne Dirt Floor large volume pump is another option but the quick blast from a compressor is hard to beat.

I usually pop this tires into place first, and then remove the valve core and inject the sealant. Find this the easiest for me. I've used Stan's until recently. Now switched to Orange Sealant which has gotten very good reviews.

Separately - very intrigued by these Nox rims. Thinking of moving my Enve AM's from my Jet 9 RDO to my Rip 9 RDO and then putting a set of the Nox on the Jet 9 RDO. Would make for a nice comparison. Will post update in the future if I do this.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Kuttermax said:


> Separately - very intrigued by these Nox rims. Thinking of moving my Enve AM's from my Jet 9 RDO to my Rip 9 RDO and then putting a set of the Nox on the Jet 9 RDO. Would make for a nice comparison. Will post update in the future if I do this.


My Jet RDO is lovin them!!


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

bicyclemark said:


> I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?


What Nobby Nics? Do they have Tubeless Ready or Tubeless embossed on the sidewall? There are also Nobby Nic Performance Line tires which are not TLR. I have found that TLR Nobby Nics inflate as easily as UST tires on tubeless rims.


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

I seated the bead on my rocket Ron snakeskin with a floor pump, didn't even need to use soap....first time I didn't need to use my compressor with the core removed.

The rear was another story-same tire. Turns out, the tape had a cut in it. Had to put on a new layer of Stan's tape and the seated up easily.

As a side note, these rims are excellent. Stiff, wide (had Enve XC before) and fast.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

My new wheels: Nox with American Classic hubs. Front 15mm, rear 135x10mm.
Nox was very convenient in hubs choises. Rims look very solid!
Weight is 1475gr with rim strip and alloy AC valves. 
Brad from Nox Composites was very helpful on every demand which is very good promise in excellent customer service. Thanks.


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

trumpus said:


> Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?


I just built a set for a local customer using the Torch Classic hubs with Revolution spokes laced 3-cross. 1,565g. Great set of wheels...I didn't want to give them up haha.

IMO the width on these is about perfect for most folks. Wide enough to spread the sidewalls out a good bit, but not so wide to leave 2.2"ish tire's sidewalls vunerable. The wider NOX rims in the 29" flavor are gonna be a while I believe...


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## bicyclemark (Feb 5, 2009)

trumpus said:


> Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?


I had a pair built with the I9 Torch hubs in August and am very happy with them. I ride a Tallboy Ltc.


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## peter19ue (Nov 20, 2012)

how do these compare to the new Derby rims


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## peter19ue (Nov 20, 2012)

I also have a Tallboy Ltc and was wondering which hubs I should go with. Would you recommend on hub over another?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

There are lots of good hub choices these days, we currently build with I9 (our most popular hub by far), King or Hope for a bike like the Ltc. Other hubs to check out include Hadley, DT and E13.

We have some info here on the tech behind our rims if you're looking to compare them to other rims on the market: Technology Behind Nox Composites Rims | Nox Composites

We plan to stay at ~23mm inner for XC rims and ~27-28mm inner for AM rims for the foreseeable future. The only thing that would make us go wider is if tire manufacturers start to design tires specifically for use on wider rims. Besides ideal tire profile, there is also a balance between width and weight. We strive to keep rim weights as low as possible since it's one of the most noticeable upgrades you can make on a bike.

Development on the AM-29 has already started, but we are still thinking it'll be summer before we get the rim through testing and into production.


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## peter19ue (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply. I currently have ZTR Stans Arch Ex rims with Hope Pro 2 hubs on them but want to upgrade to carbon since I have a lot of wear and tear on the rims and spokes are starting to break. I weight 180lbs and primarily ride cross country trails in Northern California (Auburn, Downieville, and Tahoe) so the XC rims is probably my best option. Always wanted to try Chris King hubs and I plan on having Dave build the wheels so I'll wait to see what he recommends.


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## jeepboy_90 (Oct 15, 2011)

Anyone try the XC rims yet for cyclocross? 

@NoxComposit - have you guys received any feedback yet from racers?

Thanks


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, but tire selection is a bit tricky, you have to run a very wide CX tire for it to work. Narrow tires won't pop in the bead because the rim is so wide. Keep in mind typical CX rims are 16-18mm internal. 

We sponsor Brian Rogers, the 2011 and 2012 ultracross champ who is racing on them this season, also the div II XC collegiate champion, Wes Lamberson is racing CX on them.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

Does anybody have a long term review of these? And what is your intended use?


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## W84dirt (Jan 21, 2013)

I just installed a pair on my Ibis Ripley, with CK hubs, and simply couldn't be happier! Granted this is my first set of carbon hoops, but WOW, the ride quality is unbelievable! 
Spectacular quality, and oh so STIFF! Also, it's always nice to see some competition in bike bling, because it's the consumer who wins! Highly recommended!!!


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

OldHouseMan said:


> Does anybody have a long term review of these? And what is your intended use?


I don't know if 4 months and a few hundred miles count, but here's a quick review:

I have the 29er rims with CK hubs (9mm front, 142 rear)--built from Nox directly. Long story short, I love the rims. They have been rock solid from day 1. They replaced the stock wheels, and what I've noticed the most were two things: Lower rotating weight has been helpful on long slogs of a climb, and in tight, twisty single track I've been able to carry more speed, and regain it when its lost. The other thing I've loved is the stiffness, especially up front: even though I'm using a 9mm hub, I really don't have any need to upgrade to a thru-axle. These wheels (to me) feel just as stiff, and track just as well any 15mm alum wheels I've used. On the OEM wheels, I was able to detect some 'softness' in the rear, but that's gone now.

The only thing I'd change if I could go back in time is replace the CK hubs with I9s... and that's only because the limitations of the King hubs if I ever want to go XX1. But as is, the Kings have been great as well. Love the sound, and the engagement.

Just for reference-- I have no other experience on carbon rims, but have spent time on I9s and AmClassics. Most of my riding is in the PNW--I'm an XC, wheels on the ground, but plow through anything kinda guy, and I'm 6'3", riding weight is 215ish pounds.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Has anyone ridden these and also ridden the LB carbons and/or rims like Spec/Enve/Reynolds? Very intriguing rims, as I'd rather have a bit more QC than the direct from China approach, but struggling to justify the 3X price difference. Especially considering the lifetime warranty of the Specialized Carbon Control (not to mention Spec has been around long enough for the warranty to carry weight). 

There's certainly a need for rims that are somewhere between the direct from China bottom end and get a second mortgage to afford Enve top end.

Aside from rim pricing, built wheels look to be a bargain. I'd also be interested to see an 27.5 version of your XCR


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

ACree said:


> Has anyone ridden these and also ridden the LB carbons and/or rims like Spec/Enve/Reynolds? Very intriguing rims, as I'd rather have a bit more QC than the direct from China approach, but struggling to justify the 3X price difference. Especially considering the lifetime warranty of the Specialized Carbon Control (not to mention Spec has been around long enough for the warranty to carry weight).
> 
> There's certainly a need for rims that are somewhere between the direct from China bottom end and get a second mortgage to afford Enve top end.
> 
> Aside from rim pricing, built wheels look to be a bargain. I'd also be interested to see an 27.5 version of your XCR


I've built a handful of sets of the Light-Bicycle rims. Feedback has been good. One issue folks have had, however, is getting tires set up tubeless, it's sometimes really difficult to get the bead seated initially. Multiple layers of tape help. The NOX rims are much better in this regard, and also have the asymetrical design, which I like.


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

ACree said:


> Has anyone ridden these and also ridden the LB carbons and/or rims like Spec/Enve/Reynolds? Very intriguing rims, as I'd rather have a bit more QC than the direct from China approach, but struggling to justify the 3X price difference. Especially considering the lifetime warranty of the Specialized Carbon Control (not to mention Spec has been around long enough for the warranty to carry weight).
> 
> There's certainly a need for rims that are somewhere between the direct from China bottom end and get a second mortgage to afford Enve top end.
> 
> Aside from rim pricing, built wheels look to be a bargain. I'd also be interested to see an 27.5 version of your XCR


Yes,

I've owned Enve, Roval, and the Nox.

Enve - nice, but a pain in the ass to true. I knocked my AM rear rim a bit out, and with the internal nipples - pain in the ass to true up. I also struggled at times to set them up tubeless (but they always did seal eventually). Nice, very stiff wheelset.

Specialized (had the trail SL's). Set up tubeless great, stayed true but I kept busting rear spokes like crazy. I've never broken spokes like that. Specialized was great about warranty and sent me a completely new set. (replaced even the front when the rear was my only issue).

Nox - so far set up tubeless as easy as the Specialized and I really like them. Only got them in October though and have about 250 miles on them.

If I was starting over however - I'd pick the Nox thus far. Using Hadley hubs this time, which have been nice. That said, would like to see King get that XD driver done.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

I am glad these are getting great reviews, I hope you guys are doing well and that you can see your way into making some 400gr 26 in all mountain wheels. As far as I can tell only Light Bike and enve are currently making 26 in carbon rims. Until then I will just have to sit around and look at the pretty photos.


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## rjkowski (Oct 14, 2009)

NoxComposites: can you give a little more detail about using these for CX? Specifically, how wide would I need to go to get the tire bead to seat well, 35mm or more? I have a set of stans iron cross rims on my CX bike, but I weigh 200 pounds and these rims feel 'noodly' to me. I'm thinking of swapping over to some Nox xcr-29 rims to stiffen things up.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

rjkowski said:


> NoxComposites: can you give a little more detail about using these for CX? Specifically, how wide would I need to go to get the tire bead to seat well, 35mm or more? I have a set of stans iron cross rims on my CX bike, but I weigh 200 pounds and these rims feel 'noodly' to me. I'm thinking of swapping over to some Nox xcr-29 rims to stiffen things up.


You'll be fine with 33mm and wider tires. How many spokes did you go with on your Iron Cross wheelset?


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## rjkowski (Oct 14, 2009)

My front and rear Iron Cross wheels are both 32 spokes.


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## kevinboyer (Jan 19, 2012)

Any chance these will ever be sold as a rim only option? 

edit: I guess if I would have looked a little closer I would have seen the rim only opton. :madman:


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## Scott forty G. (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks to all informative reviews. I initially thought about purchasing the Light-Bicycle carbon rims but after some serious consideration i think Nox might be the one for me. So, i am really considering on unloading of these goodness.

My concern with Nox carbon rims is the terrain i like to ride in. Typically, Socal and Tucson area where you will find some of the nastiest terrain to ride that has plenty of rocks in different shapes and sizes. A lot of the times these rocks are striking the rims.

I do have some questions for Nox before i make a decision.

This is the kind of riding i would be doing on them.





How well do these rims do on loose rocks, square edge rocks, baby head rocks, how do they do on Chunk? 
What is the warranty on the rims?
What is your customer service like?
Thank you


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm also evaluating these wheels. All I can tell you Scott Forty G is that I've had Easton Haven carbons and now (2) sets of Enve's (one AM and now XC's) and they handle that chunk just fine. Of course, the rims can't get scratched up but they are still very true and I've had zero issues. I have a friend that rides the LB rims and while he's a much more "careful" rider than I am, he's had no problems either. I just can't foresee there being an issue with the NOX wheels either.

I will say, that like another poster above, that I have had some issues setting up some tires tubeless on the Enve's. Never had that issue with the Eastons. Everything I've read about the NOX wheels has said they are easier to set up that Enve's when going tubeless.

Nobel was pretty nice yesterday eh? Best dirt I've had out there in a while!!


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Anything is going to break, however sounds like these are pretty durable. According to NOX they only have had one failure and it was just a chip to a side wall. 
Man, I really like to ride bikes, and I liked the song in the video, but that trail looked like the opposite of fun. i have to believe there are some better options in California.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

As an alternative, Derby's are on sale right now for $299


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> As an alternative, Derby's are on sale right now for $299


What a classy move........


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

ACree said:


> Has anyone ridden these and also ridden the LB carbons and/or rims like Spec/Enve/Reynolds? Very intriguing rims, as I'd rather have a bit more QC than the direct from China approach, *but struggling to justify the 3X price difference*. Especially considering the lifetime warranty of the Specialized Carbon Control (not to mention Spec has been around long enough for the warranty to carry weight).
> 
> There's certainly a need for rims that are somewhere between the direct from China bottom end and get a second mortgage to afford Enve top end.
> 
> Aside from rim pricing, built wheels look to be a bargain. I'd also be interested to see an 27.5 version of your XCR





YaMon said:


> What a classy move........


YaMon- please show me where this is a thread started by, managed or sponsored by NOX? This is a forum where people trade information. Several other brands have already been mention in this thread itself.
Some people have been mention price, so I mention an alternative that happens to be on sale.

Funny how you go on long rants in other threads, but what I just did you find fault with.


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## Scott forty G. (Dec 25, 2009)

Let me know if you get the NOX i would love to see them in person.

Yeah Nobel was primo yesterday. Did i run into you up there or ? I took 3 people up there yesterday that has not been there before after a small scare they all kicked ass.



k2rider1964 said:


> I'm also evaluating these wheels. All I can tell you Scott Forty G is that I've had Easton Haven carbons and now (2) sets of Enve's (one AM and now XC's) and they handle that chunk just fine. Of course, the rims can't get scratched up but they are still very true and I've had zero issues. I have a friend that rides the LB rims and while he's a much more "careful" rider than I am, he's had no problems either. I just can't foresee there being an issue with the NOX wheels either.
> 
> I will say, that like another poster above, that I have had some issues setting up some tires tubeless on the Enve's. Never had that issue with the Eastons. Everything I've read about the NOX wheels has said they are easier to set up that Enve's when going tubeless.
> 
> Nobel was pretty nice yesterday eh? Best dirt I've had out there in a while!!


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Still no 26 in rims though eh?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

bridgestone14 said:


> Still no 26 in rims though eh?


No rim brake compatible either. Go figure...

:band:


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

I love the bikes I have and none of the marketing utr test riding I have done has convinced me I need a larger size wheel. Or maybe I just like a bike with stiff wheels that is quick in the corners, and jumps easier over a bike that is quick through a rock garden. 


:thumbsup::cornut::drumroll:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> YaMon- please show me where this is a thread started by, managed or sponsored by NOX? This is a forum where people trade information. Several other brands have already been mention in this thread itself.
> Some people have been mention price, so I mention an alternative that happens to be on sale.
> 
> Funny how you go on long rants in other threads, but what I just did you find fault with.


[/I]

I believe the name of the thread is NOX Composites.....just saying, real class move.... You come across as that guy that buys Cheap Chinese Carbon and goes into your LBS and ask them to install it, and then ask for a discount......


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

YaMon said:


> [/I]
> 
> I believe the name of the thread is NOX Composites.....just saying, real class move.... You come across as that guy that buys Cheap Chinese Carbon and goes into your LBS and ask them to install it, and then ask for a discount......


Shows what assuming does, I'm actually that guy that has a frank discussion with the owner of my LBS. I have flat out told him I'd rather support him than an online shop, however I'm not rich and can't just throw money away. I've bought 2 bikes, and 90% of my stuff through him. I go in, say I see this item for this much online, how close can you come. I normally end up paying a little more, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what online shopping does in another hobby.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Shows what assuming does, I'm actually that guy that has a frank discussion with the owner of my LBS. I have flat out told him I'd rather support him than an online shop, however I'm not rich and can't just throw money away. I've bought 2 bikes, and 90% of my stuff through him. I go in, say I see this item for this much online, how close can you come. I normally end up paying a little more, but I'm ok with that. I've seen what online shopping does in another hobby.


The specs on a NOX rim vs. a Derby rim are completely different....not even in the same zip code. There was no reason to mention them....The more and more I do my research the more I realize that most "buyers" do not know about these threads. People that come on here, do so several times a day......so when you see 100,000 views, there really is not that many people out there that know about these threads. I was in a bike shop in N. Georgia last week and he had no clue who Derby was. Every bike shop I have ever gone to and asked if a hookless, 35mm, 40mm rim was a good idea.....I got a big NO !!

I think Derby made a huge mistake by not doing enough diligence before he entered the market. He tried to sell through online sales and then through bike shops and due to his initial price, he was locked into place and could not increase it to give the bike shops enough margin. Do you know why he is still offering the "special". He also misjudged the size of the marketplace that wanted wide, hook less rims......to date he has sold about 300 x 29" rims.....the volume is NOT selling through the internet, it is and will always be with the bike shops. Thank god, the Chinese Mfrs cannot enter this market because every one of them do not carry insurance. No smart bike shop would risk a lawsuit over cheap Chinese carbon. In addition, the Chinese Mfr's cannot sell it low enough for a bike shop top compete with their online sales. They would have to sell a $165 rim for $120 each, and that is not going to happen....

LB, IPlay, Nextie are all trading companies. At the present time they are manufacturered by one factory......I know, I have their address and even sent someone there. The manufacturers of the large bike companies are the closest held secrets out there. Yet some stupid people think LB manufacturers for the big names......Ha, Ha, Ha....


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> What a classy move........


Like youre one to talk about class?

Every thread you enter is with the intent to troll. Even in Derby's own thread you obnoxiously began questioning the need and safety of his design, and then post in other threads about how you think its a flawed design.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Lets keep it civil people. I think the Derbys look interesting. Specialized goes hookless and they get pretty solid reviews.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

bridgestone14 said:


> Lets keep it civil people. I think the Derbys look interesting. Specialized goes hookless and they get pretty solid reviews.


There is no talking reason with some of these folks. Find a thread with carbon in the title and Ya mon is on there saying all this stuff over and over and arguing with likely some of the same folks he's arguing with here. Ya mon is either the greatest public service announcer in mtb history, or he has a product/s to protect and has found himself in a position where he thinks ranting on mtbr is the best way to do that.

Edit: btw, Ya Mon's rant about Specialized hookless rims coming in 5, 4, 3,....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

SandSpur said:


> Like youre one to talk about class?
> 
> Every thread you enter is with the intent to troll. Even in Derby's own thread you obnoxiously began questioning the need and safety of his design, and then post in other threads about how you think its a flawed design.


Be patient, look and see what happens......100 people do not make experts. Specialized does something to reduce costs and everyone jumps on this like it is an engineering feat.......

By the way, I do wish Derby the best. But I can also see what mistakes he made and it is now very difficult to undo.....it is clearly obviously you do not run your own business.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

YaMon said:


> Specialized does something to reduce costs and everyone jumps on this like it is an engineering feat.......


3, 2, 1... Man, I didn't even get a chance to finish counting.


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> Be patient, look and see what happens......100 people do not make experts. Specialized does something to reduce costs and everyone jumps on this like it is an engineering feat.......
> 
> By the way, I do wish Derby the best. But I can also see what mistakes he made and it is now very difficult to undo.....it is clearly obviously you do not run your own business.


Yea, its sooooooo _clearly obviously_....


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

YaMon said:


> Be patient, look and see what happens......100 people do not make experts. Specialized does something to reduce costs and everyone jumps on this like it is an engineering feat.......
> 
> By the way, I do wish Derby the best. But I can also see what mistakes he made and it is now very difficult to undo.....it is clearly obviously you do not run your own business.


I'll take the advice of a well respected wheel builder who rides some epic chuck on Derby's over your ranting.

Point being what I did by mentioning an alternative isn't nearly as classy as your rants on other threads.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Slow Danger said:


> 3, 2, 1... Man, I didn't even get a chance to finish counting.


Yes, such a revolutionary change that every rim manufacturer has adopted it. Let's see, it reduces weight, saves them money.....they clearly must not be seeing something you obviously are.....

Specialized, Derby, LB.....yes.

Enve, Reynolds, Sram, Atomik Carbon, NOx Composites, Stans, Azonic, and every other rim manufacturer.....NO.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> Yes, such a revolutionary change that every rim manufacturer has adopted it.


Uh... they came out _*last year*_.


YaMon said:


> Let's see, it reduces weight, saves them money...


You forgot to mention that the rim walls are significantly stronger and more impact resistant... and the fact that what Specialized did with the cost savings was enter the market with a $1,200 complete carbon wheelset with DT internals... all backed by Specialized warranty. Convenient omissions. 


YaMon said:


> Enve, Reynolds, Sram, Atomik Carbon, NOx Composites, *Stans*, Azonic, and every other rim manufacturer.....NO.


Have you looked at the "hook" on a Stan's rim in the past few years?

Your "arguments" are ridiculous. All they do is demonstrate your bias.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> Uh... they came out _*last year*_.
> 
> You forgot to mention that the rim walls are significantly stronger and more impact resistant... and the fact that what Specialized did with the cost savings was enter the market with a $1,200 complete carbon wheelset with DT internals... all backed by Specialized warranty. Convenient omissions.
> 
> ...


WOW....Just about every rim manufacturer gonna jump on this one.......still waiting......Those guys at Specialized sure know how to market....you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people....Oh lookie, it don't fall off the wheel, so it must be good....when riders like Thomas Vanderham and Steve Smith start using those rim designs I will take note....


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> WOW....Just about every rim manufacturer gonna jump on this one.......still waiting......


They may not... and it may be a horrible idea, but the fact that every other rim manufacturer has not jumped on board by the next model year after their introduction is not a strong argument... it's weak as dog s**t, actually. :thumbsup:


YaMon said:


> when riders like Thomas Vanderham and Steve Smith start using those rim designs I will take note....


I hate to point out the obvious, but both Smith and Vanderham are freeriders on 26" wheels, which aren't available in hookless carbon. You make more sense with every post.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> They may not... and it may be a horrible idea, but the fact that every other rim manufacturer has not jumped on board by the next model year after their introduction is not a strong argument... it's weak as dog s**t, actually. :thumbsup:
> 
> I hate to point out the obvious, but both Smith and Vanderham are freeriders on 26" wheels, which aren't available in hookless carbon. You make more sense with every post.


So I just had this thought in my head and I can't stop laughing.....The scene takes place in a Courtroom. Melting feather is suing LB because the carbon rims he bought failed and he has injured himself......

Judge: So let me get this straight...The (plaintiff) Melting Feather is suing Light Bicycle because he intentionally sought out the cheapest Chinese made rim, rode it in a sport that is considered dangerous, it failed and you were injured....is that correct??

Mealting Feather: Yes, judge...that is correct.

Judge: Case Dismissed !!!!

BWaa Haaa, Haaaa


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

I hate to point out the obvious, but both Smith and Vanderham are freeriders on 26" wheels, which aren't available in hookless carbon. You make more sense with every post. [/QUOTE]

You are so correct....I have to ask him the next time I speak to him....
Rocky Mountain - YouTube


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## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

YaMon said:


> So I just had this thought in my head and I can't stop laughing.....The scene takes place in a Courtroom. Melting feather is suing LB because the carbon rims he bought failed and he has injured himself......
> 
> Judge: So let me get this straight...The (plaintiff) Melting Feather is suing Light Bicycle because he intentionally sought out the cheapest Chinese made rim, rode it in a sport that is considered dangerous, it failed and you were injured....is that correct??
> 
> ...


Its unfortunate that too much of what you post takes place in your head and not reality....


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

YaMon said:


> So I just had this thought in my head and I can't stop laughing.....The scene takes place in a Courtroom. Melting feather is suing LB because the carbon rims he bought failed and he has injured himself......
> 
> Judge: So let me get this straight...The (plaintiff) Melting Feather is suing Light Bicycle because he intentionally sought out the cheapest Chinese made rim, rode it in a sport that is considered dangerous, it failed and you were injured....is that correct??
> 
> ...


Make up your mind! First you're talking Specialized, which has a presence in the US and warranty, then you default to the cheap Chinese rim and suing them.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Slow Danger said:


> There is no talking reason with some of these folks. Find a thread with carbon in the title and Ya mon is on there saying all this stuff over and over and arguing with likely some of the same folks he's arguing with here.


I mean there is literally nothing to be done. You can't shame them into stopping. This back-n-forth will go on for pages. Better to just give this thread up for dead and start a new thread about NOX rims/wheels.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> You are so correct....I have to ask him the next time I speak to him....


Not sure what your point is... but to point out the obvious (again) the Element in that video, even though it is an "XC" bike, has 26" wheels. It's also not his usual bike, but a gimmick ride for a RM marketing vid.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

YaMon said:


> So I just had this thought in my head and I can't stop laughing.....The scene takes place in a Courtroom. Melting feather is suing LB because the carbon rims he bought failed and he has injured himself......
> 
> Judge: So let me get this straight...The (plaintiff) Melting Feather is suing Light Bicycle because he intentionally sought out the cheapest Chinese made rim, rode it in a sport that is considered dangerous, it failed and you were injured....is that correct??
> 
> ...


You are a moron.

Remember that all your posts about trying a get rich quick scheme marking up cheap Chinese carbon rims are still around.

How's the lacrosse stick business going? Are those customers you call idiots snatching your cheap Chinese carbon lacrosse sticks up and making you rich off of mark-up... a peddler's game?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

YaMon, you are pissing me off. Could you please go ride your bike more often and leave this forum to people who are looking for USEFUL informations and ****ing tired of reading your **** over and over again ?


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

My Nox wheels have been great and so have the Derbys with 20psi and 2.4 tires. No tires falling off yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martinizer (May 2, 2011)

Has anyone been able to mount WTB tires on the NOX rims? I'm pretty interested in the NOX but not sure i'm willing to give up my Vigilantes. The BikeRumor review said they were unable to mount a set of Bee lines. But that was the 29er and a different tire.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

I haven't tried a set of WTB tires myself, but I'm guessing the TCS versions will be too tight, for the 29er wheel at least. The AM-275s might take the TCS tires. Hopefully NOX will chime in on their experiences.

This thread needs more pics! Last two sets I've built, within a gram of one another at 1514g and 1513g. I9 Torch Classic hubs and Shimano XTR hubs.





I've got a set of the AM-275s on order for a customer, just waiting on the parts. Lacing them up to some orange I9 hubs!!


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Just got my first pair of AM-275's in for a customer. I like 'em!! Fat and beefy for sure. Both weighed in right at 400g each. Here's a few pics, with some Stan's rim sections for comparison.





This is an Arch EX, it fits completely inside the bead hooks on the AM-275 rims.


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## Bailey44 (Dec 30, 2010)

I wanted to try NOX but I never git a response from them when I reached out to ask some questions. I tried voicemail and email.

I ended up going a different direction.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

YaMon said:


> I was in a bike shop in N. Georgia last week and he had no clue who Derby was. Every bike shop I have ever gone to and asked if a hookless, 35mm, 40mm rim was a good idea.....I got a big NO !!


I guess I shouldn't feed the troll, but this comment made me roll my eyes. As someone who lives in N Georgia I have yet to find a LBS that has much of a clue on anything other than the latest from Trek or Specialized. And they usually aren't too up to date on those. Most give you a blank look if you ask about something "exotic" like a King headset.

Wait for Trek or Specialized to copy Derby's rim design and every bike shop you visit will tell you it is the best thing ever...


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I got great customer service every time I emailed Nox with questions and the wheels have been working great. 
The Derbys have been nice too. Both are built with the new Hope hubs. I had a few too many beers one night and ordered up a storm. Sold the narrow EC90s and the Crest wheels. Stiff and wide 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I am 99% sure these will be my next wheel!
WoW

I love the website customizing cart so I can pick what I want for a good price and get the color I want too!


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

Trail_Blazer said:


> I am 99% sure these will be my next wheel!
> WoW
> 
> I love the website customizing cart so I can pick what I want for a good price and get the color I want too!


Good choice! Love my wheels from them!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Trail_Blazer said:


> I am 99% sure these will be my next wheel!
> WoW
> 
> I love the website customizing cart so I can pick what I want for a good price and get the color I want too!


I just received my 27.5 Nox wheel set this week as well. Had them built up by Dave at Speed Dream. They will be going on a Pivot Mach 6. Aside from their stickers, I'm super impressed so far.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

martinizer said:


> Has anyone been able to mount WTB tires on the NOX rims? I'm pretty interested in the NOX but not sure i'm willing to give up my Vigilantes. The BikeRumor review said they were unable to mount a set of Bee lines. But that was the 29er and a different tire.


FWIW, I had my Pivot Mach 6 built up yesterday and the mechanic said the Nobby Nic went on the front w/o too much effort but the Continental Trail King was a biatch to get on. On the flip side, it aired up with a hand pump no problem.


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## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

k2rider1964 said:


> I just received my 27.5 Nox wheel set this week as well. Had them built up by Dave at Speed Dream. They will be going on a Pivot Mach 6. Aside from their stickers, I'm super impressed so far.


I've been on a set of Speed Dream built NOX 27.5 wheelset for a month........very impressed with the wheels. Dave builds great wheels period. First thing out of the box were those stickers are cheezy......they are to thick. I will eventually take them off. Another note was the Neo Motos were really difficult to install.....part of it was my technique.


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

dgaddis1 said:


> I've got a set of the AM-275s on order for a customer, just waiting on the parts. Lacing them up to some orange I9 hubs!!


I wanna see the orange ones!!


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## myitch (Jan 25, 2004)

I tried putting on a set of Schwalbes; HD up front and NN rear. Dang, friggin fight and I finally won after much sweat and effort. I had put them on with tubes to seal up the tape.

THEN, tried taking off the NN. Well, after 30 minutes of more sweat and raw skin then when putting them ON they FINALLY came off. And that was w/o sealant. Whats it going to be like with sealant? I had to use a cloth-covered screw driver just to get my plastic tire iron in there and work it around to break the bead. This is NOT going to be fun on a trail-side repair.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Not sure about your technique, but I put RR's on, it was easy with soap in a spray bottle and a very low budget compressor. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I haven't had to take any tires off, so I can't comment on that, but I hope I don't have the troubles you have had. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## myitch (Jan 25, 2004)

I did use soapy water. I'm not talking about trying to get the bead to seat. I had trouble just getting the tire onto the rim. But taking it off was worse. 

Anyone else have this problem? I mean it's a real secure bead hook but this is by far the most difficult tire removal I've ever had.


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## Cusco (Aug 21, 2011)

I mounted a pair of Schwalbe Thunder Burts to my Nox wheelset about a week ago. Was a bit of a PITA but not terrible by any means. Tires seated no problem using just a floor pump (presta core removed). No reason to try to take the tires off at this point so I don't know how difficult removal will be. My experience has been that once a Schwalbe tire has been inflated and used a bit they stretch out and come off easily.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

myitch said:


> I did use soapy water. I'm not talking about trying to get the bead to seat. I had trouble just getting the tire onto the rim. But taking it off was worse.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem? I mean it's a real secure bead hook but this is by far the most difficult tire removal I've ever had.


Make sure you're using the correct technique, lots of people still don't know the best way to get tires on tubeless rims. As you get the bead over the sidwall of the rim, push it down into the center channel. The center channel is a smaller diameter than the bead shelf, so it's not nearly as tight a fit. When removing the tire, before pulling it off the rim, push the beads down into the center channel.


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## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

dgaddis1 said:


> Make sure you're using the correct technique, lots of people still don't know the best way to get tires on tubeless rims. As you get the bead over the sidwall of the rim, push it down into the center channel. The center channel is a smaller diameter than the bead shelf, so it's not nearly as tight a fit. When removing the tire, before pulling it off the rim, push the beads down into the center channel.


That's the correct technique. It took me thirty minutes to figure it out after it wouldn't go on the "old" way. I also used some Uncle Dick's bead slip.........


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## myitch (Jan 25, 2004)

Can someone humor me and take a tire off? I can't be the only one seriously. 

I used Stan's 25mm tape to be more specific too. It's pretty thin, not like Gorilla tape which Nox does not recommend due to it's thickness. 

This was a used Schwalbe too BTW.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Bailey44 said:


> I wanted to try NOX but I never git a response from them when I reached out to ask some questions. I tried voicemail and email.
> 
> I ended up going a different direction.


I've asked several questions by email and gotten quick responses. Both through the form on their website and via direct email after that. Though post sale responsiveness to problems is the true test (I haven't purchased yet).


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

jeffrey j said:


> I wanna see the orange ones!!






We used brass nipples for better corrosion resistance. Industry Nine Torch Classic hubs. 15mm front axle, 142x12 rear axle, XD driver. 1,577g even with the heavy nipples. NOX decals removed for a cleaner look.

Every bike needs more orange IMO!!


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

Want...no NEED these for my SB95c. When will the wider rims be ready!?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey all,

We have had a few people submit questions lately via our support webform where they had a typo in their email address so we when we responded it bounced. Try emailing us directly at [email protected]. We respond to almost every email within 24 hours. Of course you can call us too 1-888-545-1282 9-5pm EST.

Schwalbe tires work great in our experience. Several of us here and many of our test riders and racers are using Schwalbe without a problem. The bead is designed to snap in tightly and resist breaking (so no burping). As far as removal, you should find that after a few days of stretch removal will be quite a bit easier.

AM-29 rims should be ready around June 1.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

mtnbiker4life said:


> were those stickers are cheezy......


You're crazy, the new decals are awesome! 

But we know decals are a personal thing, that's why we put them on top of the clearcoat and use non-permanent adhesive so they come off cleanly.


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## Tracer29er (Feb 20, 2012)

Hey Nox,
Thanks for the update about the AM-29's. I will be contacting you in the next week or so with a few questions and hopefully get some on order!!


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Any word on when the xc 27.5 will be available?


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Just ordered a set of xcr29 with king hubs. Looks like at least 2 weeks out before I will get them.
Pretty excited to get them. Now waiting on the weather to break.

Any more reviews out there?


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

Ordered a set of XCR-29's on King hubs as well about 3 weeks ago...got an email from Nox 2 days later saying that the order for my hubs has been placed and another email would follow when hubs are received and my wheelset's in the build queue. That second email hasn't arrived yet. Wonder if it's a King availability issue? I know they periodically experience parts scarcity.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

What color hubs did you order?


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

Black


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

ah give them a call, they are a small company sometimes people don't have the staff to make things happen in a timely manner.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Same here.
I think they are waiting on a rim shipment


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Tree said:


> Same here.
> I think they are waiting on a rim shipment


^^This. I've had several people contact me the last few weeks trying to find a set of rims in stock somewhere. They're selling them faster than they can get them in! But availability should improve soon I'm told.


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

Guess I'll ring them up tomorrow...although I'm still waiting on the frame and the fork. This just in time inventory in the bike industry is driving me to drink!

Alright, you got me...I'd be drinking either way.


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

El Castigador said:


> Guess I'll ring them up tomorrow...although I'm still waiting on the frame and the fork. This just in time inventory in the bike industry is driving me to drink!
> 
> Alright, you got me...I'd be drinking either way.


They're worth the wait... I promise! Love the performance of the rims, and the fact that they're coming from good people doesn't hurt!!


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

Yeah, whatever...my before and after pictures on the biggest loser will be more dramatic at least, having waited 3 years to build my XC bike. So...I got THAT going for me.


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## maindog (Mar 4, 2014)

Any news about the XCR-275? And when the AM-275 is going to be back in stock? And what are the minor improvements? Thanks.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Anyone have luck getting there order?
I ordered a set of wheels 4 weeks ago and have not heard a thing.
Was told about I should see them in about 2 weeks when the order was placed.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Give us a shout if you would like an accurate update. We are starting to catch up a bit now. Apologize for being in a backorder situation for so long, but I assure you we are sending out rims/wheels daily and as fast as we can. We have and are continuing to expand capabilities to prevent this from happening in the future.

Since everyone else in the industry seems to be announcing the same thing the last few days, we too have gone hookless on the AM-29 and AM-275. The test/fea data is just too hard to deny, we can make a much stronger bead by dropping the hook. More info on our website. Also updated widths and weights posted. 

XCR rims will continue to keep a small hook so you can safely use these for applications where you occasionally want to run a bit higher pressure (gravel/road/cx).


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

I ordered on March 10 and was told it would be 1-2 weeks for hubs. Didn't hear anything and asked again 2 weeks after that, was told rims were out of stock and on the way. Asked again yesterday, was told rims were expected this Friday and wheels would be built as soon as rims were in. I've gotten prompt responses when I've contacted NOX.



Tree said:


> Anyone have luck getting there order?
> I ordered a set of wheels 4 weeks ago and have not heard a thing.
> Was told about I should see them in about 2 weeks when the order was placed.


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## sroc3 (Feb 28, 2014)

meltingfeather said:


> You are a moron.
> 
> Remember that all your posts about trying a get rich quick scheme marking up cheap Chinese carbon rims are still around.
> 
> How's the lacrosse stick business going? Are those customers you call idiots snatching your cheap Chinese carbon lacrosse sticks up and making you rich off of mark-up... a peddler's game?


:cornut:


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

What's the eta for the am29?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

ACree said:


> I ordered on March 10 and was told it would be 1-2 weeks for hubs. Didn't hear anything and asked again 2 weeks after that, was told rims were out of stock and on the way. Asked again yesterday, was told rims were expected this Friday and wheels would be built as soon as rims were in. I've gotten prompt responses when I've contacted NOX.


Thanks, your wheels are scheduled to be started tomorrow Acree. Again, sorry for the delay. It's frustrating for us too, we hate to not meet our expected ship dates. FWIW, we are keeping the ETA on the website as accurate as possible and stock levels are getting better.

For those guys that we slipped delivery dates on, we'll throw some swag in for you.

AM-29 (hookless 29mm wide internal) and AM-275 (hookless 28mm internal) rims are in full production now. We expect first batches to arrive in stock April 25 to May 1.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

NoxComposites said:


> Thanks, your wheels are scheduled to be started tomorrow Acree. Again, sorry for the delay. It's frustrating for us too, we hate to not meet our expected ship dates. FWIW, we are keeping the ETA on the website as accurate as possible and stock levels are getting better.
> 
> For those guys that we slipped delivery dates on, we'll throw some swag in for you.
> 
> AM-29 (hookless 29mm wide internal) and AM-275 (hookless 28mm internal) rims are in full production now. We expect first batches to arrive in stock April 25 to May 1.


Can't wait. I will have some happy customers knowing they are almost available


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## dcpowpow (Sep 1, 2006)

Can someone explain the differences between hookless and the hook bead ?
Hookless seems like a bad idea to me. How does the tire stay on ? Just by friction ?
What happens when the air gets too low ? Does it burp easier ?


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

dcpowpow said:


> Can someone explain the differences between hookless and the hook bead ?
> Hookless seems like a bad idea to me. How does the tire stay on ? Just by friction ?
> What happens when the air gets too low ? Does it burp easier ?


The hook does little to nothing in regards to tire retention. The kevlar bead maintains the ID of the tire, and therefor the tire on the rim, not the hook.

It will not burp easier. On a carbon rim, the hook is machined in, whereas the hookless requires no machining, and doesnt harm the integrity of the carbon layup, resulting in a stronger rim.

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Right on Banana, with modern tires, the beads are so strong that they don't stretch much at all. The hook isn't used to "hold on" the tire, especially when we are talking about relatively low-pressure applications like mountain biking with large volume tires. For example, car/motorcycle/lawnmower/etc rims have been hookless for a long time. 

Many CF rim manufactures have always know that creating a hook in a carbon rim creates a weak spot. I can't speak for other manufacturers, but the changes in layup that we've made by going hookless leads to a DRAMATIC improvement in bead strength and delamination resistance. It's more than just getting rid of the upside down "J" shape (that is sometimes machined out), it's a whole change in the composite layup and how the rim is constructed. Fiber is strongest when it's continuous and a hookless bead allows us to do a seamless layup in the bead area. The benefits regarding durability are pretty great, which is why you are seeing it spread like wildfire as more and more manufacturers realize the benefits. 

With that said, we do feel like you shouldn't go over 45psi as it's possible with some weaker bead tires out there you could get a bit of stretching at higher psi. That's why we are keeping a small hook on our XCR rims, to allow you to run higher pressures for certain types of riding with no fear of blowing off a tire. We also have had no issues with the XCR bead strength so don't see a specific need to change it at this time. But for the AM rims and the kind borderline downhill stuff people are calling AM these days, they need all the strength they can get, and guys on 35mm wide rims will probably never run more than 45psi, so it just makes sense to go hookless in these applications.


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## dcpowpow (Sep 1, 2006)

Ok, thanks for the great explanation of hookless.
It does seem stronger and better for carbon for sure.
I agree, I cannot ever imagine my PSI above 28.
So, now I will wait for the hookless version of the NOX rim : )


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Right on Banana, with modern tires, the beads are so strong that they don't stretch much at all. The hook isn't used to "hold on" the tire, especially when we are talking about relatively low-pressure applications like mountain biking with large volume tires. For example, car/motorcycle/lawnmower/etc rims have been hookless for a long time.
> 
> Many CF rim manufactures have always know that creating a hook in a carbon rim creates a weak spot. I can't speak for other manufacturers, but the changes in layup that we've made by going hookless leads to a DRAMATIC improvement in bead strength and delamination resistance. It's more than just getting rid of the upside down "J" shape (that is sometimes machined out), it's a whole change in the composite layup and how the rim is constructed. Fiber is strongest when it's continuous and a hookless bead allows us to do a seamless layup in the bead area. The benefits regarding durability are pretty great, which is why you are seeing it spread like wildfire as more and more manufacturers realize the benefits.
> 
> With that said, we do feel like you shouldn't go over 45psi as it's possible with some weaker bead tires out there you could get a bit of stretching at higher psi. That's why we are keeping a small hook on our XCR rims, to allow you to run higher pressures for certain types of riding with no fear of blowing off a tire. We also have had no issues with the XCR bead strength so don't see a specific need to change it at this time. But for the AM rims and the kind borderline downhill stuff people are calling AM these days, they need all the strength they can get, and guys on 35mm wide rims will probably never run more than 45psi, so it just makes sense to go hookless in these applications.


So...when I ordered my "hooked" wheels from you guys a month ago, they were the cat's a$$, but now the machining of the bead hook compromises the integrity of the layup and introduces a possible delamination site?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

El Castigador said:


> So...when I ordered my "hooked" wheels from you guys a month ago, they were the cat's a$$, but now the machining of the bead hook compromises the integrity of the layup and introduces a possible delamination site?


uh... learn how to read.


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

meltingfeather said:


> uh... learn how to read.


Touché...reading this thread on my phone and didn't see the last paragraph. My bad.

Edit: that was supposed to say "touche" with an accent on the e

Edit 2: now it appears correctly, dumb phone.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

El Castigador said:


> Touché...reading this thread on my phone and didn't see the last paragraph. My bad.
> 
> Edit: that was supposed to say "touche" with an accent on the e
> 
> Edit 2: now it appears correctly, dumb phone.


lol :thumbsup:


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

El Castigador said:


> So...when I ordered my "hooked" wheels from you guys a month ago, they were the cat's a$$, but now the machining of the bead hook compromises the integrity of the layup and introduces a possible delamination site?


I think this was already said, but XCR is remaining hooked due to reasoning above.

We don't machine the bead hook, but yes, the hookless design is less likely to delaminate from a rock strike. We would have never sold the AM-275 with a hook if we didn't feel it was strong enough, this is just an evolution to improve the product for the specific application.

If anyone has problems with a hooked AM-275 (aka the cat a$$ version) then we'll be more than happy to replace it with an AM-275 hookless (aka super cat a$$ version).

All AM-29s on the market will be SCA versions.


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## bonzoo (Jul 23, 2013)

Can you clarify if the rims offered by Kappius Components are NOX rims? Design looks kinda familar


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

bonzoo said:


> Can you clarify if the rims offered by Kappius Components are NOX rims? Design looks kinda familar


Different internal width, different ERD, bead hook looks different... I'd say no.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

bholwell said:


> Different internal width, different ERD, bead hook looks different... I'd say no.


Exactly. Only similarities are the asymetrical design and the fact that they're carbon.

The Kappius are wider (than the XCR), lighter, and more expensive.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> All AM-29s on the market will be *SCA versions*.


Y'all should really trademark that before someone else does!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

No, we have no relationship with Kappius. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" 

The Kappius 29er rim and Nox XCR-29 are actually pretty similar in dimensions. They just use a non-standard way of measuring internal width. If you measure the XCR-29 rim the way they do it is 26mm wide internal and 31mm external. The difference in weight is because we have more material in the bead for rock impact durability and the XCR-29 is ~5mm deeper for more lateral stiffness.


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## bonzoo (Jul 23, 2013)

Thank you for the clarification  I was just wondering since lots of the features seem pretty similar...


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## gandhi (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm looking for a carbon rim with asymmetrical design for my gravelgrinder/cyclocross/road bike and the NOX XCR-29 rim is the only one I've found and I like the looks and reviews of it so far. 

I run 30 mm Grand Bois Extra Léger when I'm on the road and Challenge Grifo XS 32 mm för cyclocross and gravel. Today I use the Velocity A23 OC rims with 23 mm outer width (tubeless ready).

There is a trend in road cycling of going for wider rims in order to reduce the "light bulb profile" of the tire which gives better handling in curves. I also find the comfort increasing when getting a wider footprint and being able to run lower pressure. 

Will the XCR-29 rim be too wide for my 30 mm tires? I've seen 23 mm wide road rims paired with 23 mm road tires. Can I assume that a 30 mm wide rim can be paired with a 30 mm tire then? And is there an upper tire pressure limit on the XCR-29 rim?

/K


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

It will depend on the individual tire whether it will actually seat or not, but in general running a 30mm tire on a 30mm (external) rim will not give you good handling results. The engineer who designed that 30mm tire probably never intended it to be ran on a 30mm rim. I'd recommend you go with a 40mm+ tire (for example Clement X'Plor 700x40 or similar) for gravel applications. Max pressure is listed as 60psi but if your tire is listed higher than that you can safely go up to the tire's limit.

The same benefits are found off road, actually it's more pronounced since tire rubber hysteresis losses are a much bigger factor off road (much more tire deflection with trail chatter than on a smooth road).


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## gandhi (Jun 8, 2005)

Ah, thanks. 
Do you have any plans for a narrower cyclocross rim? Say, 25-26 mm outer width.
/K



NoxComposites said:


> It will depend on the individual tire whether it will actually seat or not, but in general running a 30mm tire on a 30mm (external) rim will not give you good handling results. The engineer who designed that 30mm tire probably never intended it to be ran on a 30mm rim. I'd recommend you go with a 40mm+ tire (for example Clement X'Plor 700x40 or similar) for gravel applications. Max pressure is listed as 60psi but if your tire is listed higher than that you can safely go up to the tire's limit.
> 
> The same benefits are found off road, actually it's more pronounced since tire rubber hysteresis losses are a much bigger factor off road (much more tire deflection with trail chatter than on a smooth road).


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> The same benefits are found off road, actually it's more pronounced since tire rubber hysteresis losses are a much bigger factor off road (much more tire deflection with trail chatter than on a smooth road).


Huh?
The comfort benefit of lower pressure is more pronounced off-road because of hysteresis?


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Are you guys gonna be releasing a hookless rim design soon? Less weight, higher strength, easier manufacturing... there doesn't seem to be a downside. It would be nice to see a rim lighter than a Crest. That would make the upgrade to carbon a bit easier to swallow. Stiffness is nice, but at 160lbs I'm not crushing the Crests. Or it seems that any lack of stiffness isn't holding me back... I'd expect you could make a carbon rim both lighter and stiffer then the Crests. They seem to be the benchmark for performance/dollar in xc/marathon. I expect carbon rims to cost more, no problem there, but I'd also like to see them be lighter. I'm thinking maybe hookless rims would help get you there. I'm sure you guys have talked about it. Are there downsides that aren't being mentioned?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

DLd said:


> Are there downsides that aren't being mentioned?


One big one I can see is the increased amount of acceleration and speed you will gain with light, stiff carbon wheels. Are you really ready for those types of gains?


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Don't focus on just the weight. The XCR rims are MUCH stiffer, as you mentioned, and also wider. And because they're stiffer and stronger than a Crest you can use lighter spokes (which saves weight) and still end up with a very stiff wheelset. It's easy to say the Crests are stiff enough, but once you ride some stiff carbon wheels, it's hard to go back. I've got a set of American Classic hubs laced to Crest rims with DT Swiss Comp spokes, and I've got a set of Hope hubs laced to Nox XCR rims with DT Swiss Revolution spokes. The AC/Crest combo is a handful of grams lighter thanks to the very light hubs, but the Hope/Nox combo is WAY more fun to ride thanks to the stiffness - the bike feels a lot more planted and stable in the corners than it does with the Crest rims. Riding is believing.

All that said, I'd love to see a lighter rim offered too.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

dustyduke22 said:


> One big one I can see is the increased amount of acceleration and speed you will gain with light, stiff carbon wheels. Are you really ready for those types of gains?


So Crests and Nox XCR-29 rims are both 380grams. You're saying I'll see increased acceleration and speed simply because the Nox are carbon? Interesting hypothesis.

Anyway, I was asking about downsides to hookless, not carbon. I don't doubt that the nox are stiffer, btw.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

dgaddis1 said:


> Don't focus on just the weight. The XCR rims are MUCH stiffer, as you mentioned, and also wider. And because they're stiffer and stronger than a Crest you can use lighter spokes (which saves weight) and still end up with a very stiff wheelset. It's easy to say the Crests are stiff enough, but once you ride some stiff carbon wheels, it's hard to go back. I've got a set of American Classic hubs laced to Crest rims with DT Swiss Comp spokes, and I've got a set of Hope hubs laced to Nox XCR rims with DT Swiss Revolution spokes. The AC/Crest combo is a handful of grams lighter thanks to the very light hubs, but the Hope/Nox combo is WAY more fun to ride thanks to the stiffness - the bike feels a lot more planted and stable in the corners than it does with the Crest rims. Riding is believing.


This^^^ I've been on Nox for awhile now and these things kill it compared to the Arch/i9 set I was on before. Acceleration and cornering are just awesome, point and go with no deflection at 190 pounds. I have a set of hookless Light Bikes on my fatty and too soon to tell if there will be any disadvantages but they sure mount up tight.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Agree with all about the benefits of carbon rims. I have them on my 26'er. At about 1250gms for the set they're amazing.

I was more interested in hearing about what nox has up their sleeve and if an advance like hookless is something they're considering to up their game, or if they think hookless is hype and has some heretofore unknown downsides.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

DLd said:


> Agree with all about the benefits of carbon rims. I have them on my 26'er. At about 1250gms for the set they're amazing.
> 
> I was more interested in hearing about what nox has up their sleeve and if an advance like hookless is something they're considering to up their game, or if they think hookless is hype and has some heretofore unknown downsides.


They are already doing hookless in their AM rims.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We don't think hookless is hype. There are real advantages to bead strength and we've measured them in the lab. The ONLY downside is a limit in maximum pressure. But we're hearing more and more people tell us they'd easily trade a 45psi limit for lighter/stronger mountain rims. So given that feedback, that is the direction we're taking for our future mountain rims.

Our AM/Enduro rims ARE hookless and have been for a while now. Our AM-275 rim has a 3.5mm bead, which is one of if not the burliest on the market. The AM-29 has a 3mm bead.

We are in final testing stages of a racing, pure XC 29er rim now. This rim is hookless and will push the limits of strength/stiffness at very low weights by using more T800 fiber and a hookless bead with our overwrap construction (no seams near the bead edge). Look for that rim to start shipping in about 1.5 months.

This thread needs more pics! Here are some pics of the Pivot Enduro Team who helped develop the hookless rims on the World Cup Enduro Circuit (these are from South America) and from some local terrain.


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## maindog (Mar 4, 2014)

What about the XCR-275? Any news? Postponed for later? Thanks!!!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We are working that rim too, but the race 29er rim will be ready first.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Awesome! Perfect timing. Looks like I should be able to get a set in time for the Grand Junction Off-Road!

Nice pics btw.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

I've got a really cool set on deck, I'll post pics once they're built up. AM29 rims, King hubs, mix of black and white spokes.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

I've only had my Nox XCR-29's a short time, but I've become a huge fan. Stiffness = check. Good weight = check. Durability = so far, so good, no complaints.

Recently won the California State XC Championship in Open Single Speed on a set! (hard to see the Nox logos due to dirt). Love em....looking forward to see what you guys come out with next.


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## slashy (Dec 7, 2005)

any beans to spill on the 29er race rim ? dims ? offset ? will it have the anti burp bumps ? target weight ? price ?


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

AM29 rims, Chris King hubs with the new XD driver, mix of black and white Sapim CX-Ray spokes with red alloy nipples. Built for enduro racing!


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

*Real vs declared weight. WTF?*

A bit disappointed:


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## gcohen (Jun 13, 2006)

I just ordered a set of am-29/i9 wheels for my intense spider 29 comp. I have enve am's on my carbine 27.5. I'm looking forward to the comparison. I'll post pics and feedback in a couple of weeks.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

jadis3 said:


> A bit disappointed:


Hi, please contact us, we'd been happy to swap this rim out for you. As I'm sure you're aware, manufacturing variances leads to different weights for each rim. Assuming your scale is accurate, this is out of spec and we'd replace it for you. Spec on the XCR-29 is 380 +/- 10g.


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Hi, please contact us, we'd been happy to swap this rim out for you. As I'm sure you're aware, manufacturing variances leads to different weights for each rim. Assuming your scale is accurate, this is out of spec and we'd replace it for you. Spec on the XCR-29 is 380 +/- 10g.


 Thank you for the opportunity, great service.


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## Tuono (Apr 24, 2013)

*Nox Rims with some chris kings. I think i may try some... ...green ones*

"Because it's *RED"
*I disagree. I believe that Green is much faster- the trick is finding it!
Green= Fast.


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## gcohen (Jun 13, 2006)

AM-29's laced to i9 hubs. 








My bike shop was very impressed with the rims and really liked the guys at Nox.

I'll get a few rides in and report back how the compare to my enve am's.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

So, when is the hookless 29'er XC rim coming out? Send a mail to Nox about 2 months ago, never got a reply


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## gcohen (Jun 13, 2006)

Was able to get a short ride in this morning. First impressions are these wheels rock. Super stiff, quick acceleration, and track amazing. I'm running nobby nic 2.35's on my Enve AM 27.5 wheels and the nobby nic 2.25's on the Nox AM-29 are wider.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Our latest demo bike build:


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## newportl (Apr 20, 2010)

gcohen said:


> AM-29's laced to i9 hubs.
> View attachment 905746
> 
> 
> ...


Looking forward to the report. These are on the list. I have a set of Derbys on CK on my SS, and I want to try out the Nox rims on some i9s next.


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## gcohen (Jun 13, 2006)

I've ridden them a half a dozen times now. They are great. I'm running approx. 20psi tubeless on rocky rooty north east trails. I'm 210lbs and I have not had an issue. These wheels look and act the part!! Very satisfied and zero regrets choosing them over another set of Enve's


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## crlavoie (Nov 10, 2010)

gcohen said:


> I've ridden them a half a dozen times now. They are great. I'm running approx. 20psi tubeless on rocky rooty north east trails. I'm 210lbs and I have not had an issue. These wheels look and act the part!! Very satisfied and zero regrets choosing them over another set of Enve's


Same here. I've had my AM29's about a month and they have been amazing. 20 PSI seems to be the sweet spot on Nobby Nic 2.25 in the rear and about 18 up front on a 2.35. Had my LBS order them from Nox and the build quality was excellent. The guys at Nox were great to deal with as well. Without a doubt, I'll be buying another set for my next rig.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

This thread needs more pics!!!


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

crlavoie said:


> Without a doubt, I'll be buying another set for my next rig.


I really like what NOX is doing as well. Haven't seen any in person but they're at the top of the list to replace some Nancy Wides that I'm not super stoked on.


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## mpconway (Sep 1, 2010)

Just recevied my xc 29 with ac hubs and 142 rear axle last week. First ride was a 60 miler in Marin and here are first impressions:

Super Stiff
superior braking.

Upgraded from a pair of Stans Crests

excited to race these this weekend at the lake tahoe 100k


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## brightride (Jul 27, 2013)

newportl said:


> Looking forward to the report. These are on the list. I have a set of Derbys on CK on my SS, and I want to try out the Nox rims on some i9s next.


Loving my AM29s on I9 hubs, best bike upgrade I've ever made. I run them at 16-17 PSI for my 150 lbs on 2.3 tires. Fantastic corning traction and steering precision. My bike feels much more composed on jump landings. Specialized tires mounted up easily tubeless, hold air well, and have stayed true. Riding on them for 2 months.


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

brightride said:


> View attachment 909090
> 
> 
> Loving my AM29s on I9 hubs, best bike upgrade I've ever made. I run them at 16-17 PSI for my 150 lbs on 2.3 tires. Fantastic corning traction and steering precision. My bike feels much more composed on jump landings. Specialized tires mounted up easily tubeless, hold air well, and have stayed true. Riding on them for 2 months.


What I need to hear - this is my planned build (all black).


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## tom_e (Aug 9, 2005)

Stoke to be riding my set soon on a 2014 Trek Remedy - I just received a full build of 27.5 on CK XX1 hubs. 

Following this thread, their price point, and race results really moved me to purchase over other brands/options. NOX appears to be scaling with demand pretty well.

Timing was very prompt once parts arrived (~1 wk + 4 days shipping from TN to CA). CK XX1 hubs had to be ordered, which took 2wks to arrive. Their packing list showed hubs ordered a few hours post my online order. Not everything can be amazon prime'd and drone-dropped on my doorstep.

I received an email confirming 1) my initial order 2) parts arrived & into production 3) shipping.

Boxed wheelset was a little lightly packaged. Fed-Ex did a number on the box, but the wheels look like they arrived without damage.

Will report back once I get tires mounted and some miles on my local trails.


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

I am at 10 months on my 29er Nox laced up by Dave at Speeddreams.

Best wheels I have ever owned. I like them better than the Rovals and the Enve AM 29ers.

Great hoops thus far.


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## robbieracer1 (Jul 31, 2014)

Green Giant said:


> I am at 10 months on my 29er Nox laced up by Dave at Speeddreams.
> 
> Best wheels I have ever owned. I like them better than the Rovals and the Enve AM 29ers.
> 
> Great hoops thus far.


Great to hear! Dave is completing my 27.5 wheels today. I'm going with Chris King hubs, should be a great setup on my Tracer T275...


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## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

Uh oh

Still haven't got the package yet, hopefully everything is alright.

Been waiting almost a month now


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

mattwright999 said:


> Uh oh
> 
> Still haven't got the package yet, hopefully everything is alright.
> 
> Been waiting almost a month now


You Canadians with your beady eyes and your flappy heads...

Jk, hope everything is ok with your shipment...their packaging seems suited only to best shipping case scenario unfortunately.


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## robbieracer1 (Jul 31, 2014)

mattwright999 said:


> Uh oh
> 
> Still haven't got the package yet, hopefully everything is alright.
> 
> Been waiting almost a month now


Bummer, I hope everything is okay...


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Any word on those new hookless XC 29'er rims?


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## Kalamath (Mar 23, 2010)

Green Giant, I'm curious, what makes the Nox better than the Enve AMs you tried? I'm on a set of those right now and hands down, best wheels I've ever had under me. I've been eyeing Nox for a second, lighter weight wheel set for summertime conditions.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Well for starters Kalamath the nipples are external making tweeks really easy.
Should you need to make one.....

That's all I got.

Watching this thread closely.....


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

I love my Nox am 29er rims, but I have to say their shipping, packaging leave a lot to be desired. I have worked for ups for years and there is no way I would ship something I wanted to make it there in good shape like they do. I had one of my boxes completely destroyed. Wheel had some marks but no breaks so I kept them. I probably should have sent the one back but I was ready to ride. Waited forever to get my Hope trials single speed hub. Nox, step up your packaging - we will gladly pay for it.


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## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

Just picked up my package today. Unfortunately it looks like my end caps on the hubs were damaged

I was surprised to see that there was no support at all for the rim in the box. The rim arrived only in a plastic bag and placed into the box.

Both my rims were shipped separately and this is my first rim to arrive the other one should be here late next week. I have a feeling Im going to end up with the same damaged box and end caps on my front rim

Im going to send NOX an email today and hopefully they can send me new end caps.

The good news is my Maxxis HR2 tires went on without any effort and they aired up using a floor pump with no sealant. No air leaks! (will add sealant later)

I may bring the rim down to the LBS and have them look at it quick just to make sure everything is good

Sorry for the crappy phone pics, its hard to see the damage. The end caps are dinged up and scratched.

I will take some better pics once the other rims arrives. Cant wait to get out and ride these!










































































w/ I9 Hub with XD driver


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

Kalamath said:


> Green Giant, I'm curious, what makes the Nox better than the Enve AMs you tried? I'm on a set of those right now and hands down, best wheels I've ever had under me. I've been eyeing Nox for a second, lighter weight wheel set for summertime conditions.


The Nox set up tubeless easier than the Enve for sure. I actually managed to knock my rear AM Enve out of true (though Dave at speeddreams didn't build the Enve's).

Found that the internal nipples were a pain on the enves for 2 reasons. 1. Had to take the tape off to true them up. 2. The aluminum nipples (which have now been changed, corrosion issues).

The Enve's rode great and were stiff just like the Nox.

Either way, I'd have Dave build up the wheels. The bladed spokes I believe are stock by both Enve and Nox and don't add anything other than weight and a pain in the arse factor. I also think that offset spokes make sense.

The Enves are absolutely a nice wheel, I just like the Nox better, and from a price standpoint there is really no comparison on bang for the buck.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

I've been running Nox XC-29 rims since late April, approximately 400 mostly trail miles since then. Absolutely the easiest rims to mount up tubeless I've ever used (comparing to Stan's Arch's, WTB i19s, and Shimano XTR UST), and the only rims that could be inflated tubeless with a floor pump. Very positive snap as the bead seated. Mine were built on Hope hubs, with Comp spokes by the Nox guys. I did find a few loose spokes on the rear last week, which is quicker than I've experienced with other builders like Stans or QBP building, but didn't take long to true back up.

These are my first carbon wheels and I've been very happy with the ride. I do think the difference over aluminum is frequently exaggerated in reviews though. From what I've seen, I would buy Nox again.


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## tom_e (Aug 9, 2005)

Just a couple light trail rides so far but loving really the inner width and handling characteristics. Here's a couple photos. I know the trail looks like a dirt sidewalk


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## robbieracer1 (Jul 31, 2014)

Just got my NOX wheels today, built by Dave (Speeddream)...

Front - 783 grams
Rear- 941 grams


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

@Tyrone, congratulations. Tell us more about your gearing setup on that winning bike.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Shipped this set out this week - burly build for a client weighing in around 250lbs. AM275 rims, Chris King hubs with the stainless steel freehub body upgrade. Instead of the usual lightweight spokes I used the Wheelsmith DB14's instead, a bit heavier gauge than Revolutions or CX-Rays or Aerolites for an extra dose of stiffness. Brass nipples. 1,837g if my memory is good. Bombproof and built to take a beating!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

mattwright999 said:


> Just picked up my package today. Unfortunately it looks like my end caps on the hubs were damaged
> 
> I was surprised to see that there was no support at all for the rim in the box. The rim arrived only in a plastic bag and placed into the box.


I just want to say that this is NOT how we ship wheels. I believe what happened in this case was the box was ripped open during shipping and the wheel supports fell out and were not replaced by the carrier (that box has clearly been through the ringer!). When wheels leave our shop they are fully supported in the box by cardboard inserts both vertically and laterally and also placed in a plastic bag for scratch protection. Shipping damage has been extremely rare.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

You might better get back in there and tell your shipping guy to start doing a better job. Mine had nothing in the box except a wheel in a plastic bag.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Well, we don't really have a shipping guy (I wish!). I suppose it's possible someone zoned out and shipped your wheels without the protective inserts, in which case we screwed up - and please contact us if there is any damage whatsoever to your wheels and we'll take care of you.

I can tell you that is not the way they are supposed to be shipped. I snapped some photos this morning of our wheel shipping box. This is a pretty standard wheel box design across the industry and does a good job at keeping the hub axles and freehub body centered and away from the sides of the box. We've had VERY few issues including shipping wheels all over the world.

(note protective plastic bag is not included in these pics)


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Just an FYI, my wheels came nicely packed, in great shape and have been running great ever since. Very happy customer.


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## slashy (Dec 7, 2005)

how are the xc light rims coming ?


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## bsbworldcup (May 3, 2011)

My experience with NOX Composites:


Great wheel
Great Price
Fast, stiff, and light
Excellent customer service
Already saving up for the AM29 set

And they look damn good on my wife's Yeti SB75.


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## keith n (Aug 29, 2014)

Is there any eta on the Nox 27.5 xc rim?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Just a few weeks away now. Sorry for the delays, it's taken some time to get these lightweight rims right!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

NoxComposites said:


> Just a few weeks away now. Sorry for the delays, it's taken some time to get these lightweight rims right!


Awesome news! I'll be among first to order/pre-order&#8230;


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## keith n (Aug 29, 2014)

Your timing is perfect, can't wait to order Nox 27.5 rims xc w/ck hubs for my new ride.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

NoxComposites said:


> ...it's taken some time to get these lightweight rims right!


btw, just how light are they&#8230;can you reveal ballpark rim weight? If not, can we assume about the same weight difference as between the 29 xc an am rims?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Our target weights for production rims are 340g for race 29er and 320g for race 650b.


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## gandhi (Jun 8, 2005)

Do you have an estimate on rim width on the "race 29er"? I'd like to use it for a cyclo cross/gravel grinder wheelset.



NoxComposites said:


> Our target weights for production rims are 340g for race 29er and 320g for race 650b.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

NoxComposites said:


> Our target weights for production rims are 340g for race 29er and 320g for race 650b.


Awesome, thank you!


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## keith n (Aug 29, 2014)

Nice only 320 grams for the 650b rims. I would like to know inner and outside width of my future rims.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Any more info on the new rims with better spoke hole angles? Please give update, Thanks.
650b and 29er lighter rims for XC


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

Have to say that I have had a big improvement by riding Nox wheels vs good alu wheels. 
Worth the price. 
Thanks to "a small business owned and operated by cyclists".


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## maindog (Mar 4, 2014)

Skyline 275 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Cool! 

Nox, when will the 29s be available?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

maindog said:


> Skyline 275 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels


The Skylines sound great, but slight ouch...$1800 built out the door...$400 more than my Nox AM-275s.


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## Huck N Fell (Jul 6, 2008)

MattMay said:


> The Skylines sound great, but slight ouch...$1800 built out the door...$400 more than my Nox AM-275s.


I think they have a script problem on their website. It shows $479 for a single rim, but then when you add it to the cart the price for one rim jumps to $958.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Definitely an error. Doesn't happen when you use drop down to order a build.


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

MattMay said:


> The Skylines sound great, but slight ouch...$1800 built out the door...$400 more than my Nox AM-275s.


Yeah, hopefully that's an error. The $20 increase in per/hoop price certainly doesn't account for the $400 uplift for a wheelset.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I think I got the early adopter special last year...they were running a limited offer before year end on the AM275 now that I recall. Still, my invoice was like $1400 with shipping. Enough of a diff to make me pause before I hit "order" button now! I got spoiled.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

maindog said:


> Skyline 275 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels


Nice, hopefully this means the Skyline 29's will be showing up soon.


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## slowandlow (Jun 6, 2004)

Full year on the NOX rims (~1200 miles) and not a single issue....

Many dings, scratches, crashes, and ohh sh!!!!!!t moments but still true and sound.

Love em :thumbsup:


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Fairwheel Bikes is showing the AM275s at $382.50/rim ($67.50 off) if you're in the market for great 35mm carbon rims!

https://fairwheelbikes.com/nox-asymmetric-carbon-mountain-rim-p-6094.html


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Coming in few weeks !!*

I like the new Teocalli, should be a great do it all 29er rim. 26mm inside and 31mm outside. NOX also offers Lilly Percision nipples in any color, the best nipples you can get. I'm still desiding of the new graphics, I don't know if I like them!!


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## gandhi (Jun 8, 2005)

So, hookless Skyline means that cyclocross and gravelgrinding is out of the question? Can one run pressures up to 6 bar (30 mm road tires) on these hookless rims?
/K


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Had a set of XCR 29s/Hope Pro2, for a year. Found them not quite as good as narrower, hooked Easton EC90 XC, which I still love(solely my opinion). YMMV....


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Not a fan a Easton or Hope, try to get parts for Easton hubs. Good luck!! The bearings in newer Hope hubs suck, local bike shop will not sell them any more. Just my 2 cents!!


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## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

These Teocalis will be perfect on my Anthem SX! This is my next purchase for sure.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

dgw7000 said:


> I like the new Teocalli, should be a great do it all 29er rim. 26mm inside and 31mm outside. NOX also offers Lilly Percision nipples in any color, the best nipples you can get. I'm still desiding of the new graphics, I don't know if I like them!!


So is the Farlow a revision or just re-naming of the AM275? I am looking at picking up some Nox wheels for my Nomad3, and don't want to buy old tech.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

davemk said:


> So is the Farlow a revision or just re-naming of the AM275? I am looking at picking up some Nox wheels for my Nomad3, and don't want to buy old tech.


Just ordered the Skylines. I don't even see Farlow, where is that? Just the three different 27.5s: 35mm AM275, 32mm Teocali, 29mm Skyline.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

The image above has the Farlow listed instead of the AM275 but the specs look almost identical. Hence my question, is it a new rim or just a new name?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The Farlow is new as NOX will confirm, just call them and ask. When I did they always answer all my questions, good people!!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> The Farlow is new as NOX will confirm, just call them and ask. When I did they always answer all my questions, good people!!


No the Farlow is the AM rim renamed, already talk to them.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The rim is not the same, it has a better design.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> The rim is not the same, it has a better design.


Nothing was mentioned on the phone about a redesign, just changing the name to line up with other names.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

davemk said:


> The image above has the Farlow listed instead of the AM275 but the specs look almost identical. Hence my question, is it a new rim or just a new name?


What's weird is they don't have that image on their site...must be an ad somewhere, or catalog? Curious,. I Googled Nox Composites Farlow, got a page Noxcomposites.com/farlow29 and got "access denied."


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

MattMay said:


> What's weird is they don't have that image on their site...must be an ad somewhere, or catalog? Curious,. I Googled Nox Composites Farlow, got a page Noxcomposites.com/farlow29 and got "access denied."


I was on the phone with them this week. She said they are in the middle of updating the site.

The new pre-order rims have Project 321 hubs as an option, the AMs don't, things like that.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

I just got off the phone with Kaysee at Nox Composites. She specifically said that the Farlow is the AM275 rim, it is just a new name.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> No the Farlow is the AM rim renamed, already talk to them.





davemk said:


> I just got off the phone with Kaysee at Nox Composites. She specifically said that the Farlow is the AM275 rim, it is just a new name.





dgw7000 said:


> The Farlow is new as NOX will confirm, just call them and ask. When I did they always answer all my questions, good people!!





dgw7000 said:


> The rim is not the same, it has a better design.


So how is this a new rim and better design?

Love the internet, people posting things they know nothing about.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TwoTone said:


> So how is this a new rim and better design?
> 
> Love the internet, people posting things they know nothing about.


He meant better designed decal. :arf:


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The spoke holes are done at better angle, after I talk to Brad again will pass on what he say's. Just to make sure it wasn't a dream. He also told all the new models are using the new drilling's and some other improvements which make the rims stronger. All the info I have came from Brad, I also said I'm on the fence about the decal !!
Sounds like I'm not the one passing wrong info, call and walk to the designer of the wheels not who ever answer's the phone.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

The new rims are new, not just re-named and re-decaled versions of the existing. They aren't drastically different because they're evolutions of the current offerings, improvements, no clean-sheet new designs. Spoke holes are now drilled at an angle, no seams in the carbon layup near the bead/sidewall, and a little more offset in the spoke bed.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

The changes to the Farlow rims compared to the AM are extremely minor. The Farlow rims are coming out of the same molds as the AM rims. Primary difference is angled drill holes and some subtle improvements in layup. It's really mostly a re-branding and new decal design. If you have AM-29 or AM-275 rims I wouldn't feel like you're missing out on anything.

The Teocalli and Skyline are however entirely new rims.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

NoxComposites said:


> The changes to the Farlow rims compared to the AM are extremely minor. The Farlow rims are coming out of the same molds as the AM rims. Primary difference is angled drill holes and some subtle improvements in layup. It's really mostly a re-branding and new decal design. If you have AM-29 or AM-275 rims I wouldn't feel like you're missing out on anything.
> 
> The Teocalli and Skyline are however entirely new rims.


Thanks for the clarification. I'm trying to decide between the Farlow with I9 wheelset (29mm internal) vs the Ibis 741 wheelset (35mm internal), can you give me your insight on why you decided to stay under 30mm for your AM rim and what advantages/disadvantages you see with the super wide rims? Price is similar, Nox is a few hundred more but have nicer hubs. Thanks


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

It's pretty simple, to go wider would make the rim heavier and we don't like heavy rims. It's always a trade off, but we feel like 29mm is wide enough to put a huge smile on your face and yet keep you from regretting your rim choice halfway up the first climb. 

I think our pricing with Hope hubs and Sapim Race spokes is getting very near the Ibis price point if you're looking for a kick a$$ wheelset on a budget.


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

Just got my set of the AM275 Rims on King hubs (The new wheels were announced earlier this week after mine had shipped, always my luck  )

they're quality pieces good looking and 2.4 Maxxis Ardent TR Tires went on pretty easily with a little bit of soapy water and aired up no issues at all. The one minor disappointment is the rims weigh 131 grams more than they were quoted at. (Weight on the web site is 1598 grams with king hubs, When I ordered a few weeks back there were no options for spokes so I'm assuming I got the same kit, and mine are 1729 grams, that includes Rim Strips and valve stem, but I'm not believing those are 131 grams total!).

Riding them the first time last night they feel good I'll report back after I've had them a while.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Nice. Though, 131 grams are a pretty big delta, assuming same spec. Did you contact Nox about it?



gremlin said:


> Just got my set of the AM275 Rims on King hubs (The new wheels were announced earlier this week after mine had shipped, always my luck  )
> 
> they're quality pieces good looking and 2.4 Maxxis Ardent TR Tires went on pretty easily with a little bit of soapy water and aired up no issues at all. The one minor disappointment is the rims weigh 131 grams more than they were quoted at. (Weight on the web site is 1598 grams with king hubs, When I ordered a few weeks back there were no options for spokes so I'm assuming I got the same kit, and mine are 1729 grams, that includes Rim Strips and valve stem, but I'm not believing those are 131 grams total!).
> 
> Riding them the first time last night they feel good I'll report back after I've had them a while.


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

131 grams does seem a bit off. My original AM275's (with bead hook), I9 hubs, tape, and valve stems came in at 1600 grams, +/- 10 grams as it's been over 6 months since I've had them on the scale. 

They've been working out really nice so far though. Wide, stiff, and nice feel, but friends have complained about how loud the I9 rear hub is! Doesn't bother me and it's also a good alert for other riders/hikers/dogs.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd get the new Teocalli (with American Classic hubs maybe for ultimate weight savings) as I don't ever really ride super aggressive trails. Live in FL and travel to NC/SC, but that's it. Think the 26mm internal would be fine and weight saving are always nice to me.


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

Haven't contacted NOX yet, I should probably do that, I wasn't going for ultimate light weight clearly or I wouldn't have gone kings, but I did really want King hubs, I've always lusted after them, so this was a bit of a dream build on my wheels. These are the original AM275 AFIK as they were all that was on the site 3-4 weeks ago when I ordered them. I weighed them on a park scale


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

gremlin said:


> Haven't contacted NOX yet, I should probably do that, I wasn't going for ultimate light weight clearly or I wouldn't have gone kings, but I did really want King hubs, I've always lusted after them, so this was a bit of a dream build on my wheels. These are the original AM275 AFIK as they were all that was on the site 3-4 weeks ago when I ordered them. I weighed them on a park scale


Are the spokes bladed (CX-Ray) or round (Sapim Race)? If they are Race, that would explain the bulk of the weight difference. You certainly should contact them.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Per Nox website, the ~1,598g weight appears to be based on using CX-Ray. Given the number of variables/components involved, I really can't see a max variance of +50 grams. Hence, I'm wondering what Nox has to say.



pdlhrd said:


> Are the spokes bladed (CX-Ray) or round (Sapim Race)? If they are Race, that would explain the bulk of the weight difference. You certainly should contact them.


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

My guess is you're correct I don't have the Sapim CX Spokes, I looked at my receipt and they say nothing about spokes, I don't think the order tool had spokes when I ordered them, so I assumed I was getting what they listed and that may not have been the case.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Check your spokes...do they have the aero/flat profile?



gremlin said:


> My guess is you're correct I don't have the Sapim CX Spokes, I looked at my receipt and they say nothing about spokes, I don't think the order tool had spokes when I ordered them, so I assumed I was getting what they listed and that may not have been the case.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

gremlin said:


> My guess is you're correct I don't have the Sapim CX Spokes, I looked at my receipt and they say nothing about spokes, I don't think the order tool had spokes when I ordered them, so I assumed I was getting what they listed and that may not have been the case.


I noticed that change on their site when I was considering getting wheels from them about a week or so ago. 1st time, there wasn't a choice, a few days later there was.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Park hanging scales are not accurate enough to begin with, they only read out to +/- 28g (1 oz) resolution. So first use a more accurate scale and see where you really are. Weights are based on published hub weights with a real-world check (in this case we probably did an I9 build as a baseline). As you probably know, most hub manufactures list weights based on best-case scenario, and depending on the end-cap config, freehub, shell version (LD vs. SD for Kings) you can add easily some weight over the published hub weights and hence be off from our published wheelset weights. We also don't include tape or valves in our published weights even though these do come installed on wheels. I'd say between the hub weights possibly being more than the advertised weight, the park scale rounding up to the next oz and the weight of tape/valves, the mystery is solved. Our rim weights are spec'd +/- 10g and we don't see much/any variance in spoke weights.

BTW, there is no weight difference between the AM rims and the Farlow rims. Like we said before, they are essentially the same rim. Anyone who wants to "convert" their AM rims to the new Farlow graphics/decals can do so, we have those available on the website now.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

You have CX-Ray spokes unless you specifically requested something different, we have used CX-Rays for all builds by default. We recently added the Sapim Race option as a great way to save $130 for those who aren't weight weenies or for those looking for even more stiffness.


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

Yes, I'd agree that scale may not be the most accurate either. If you factor that in, end caps, tape/valve stems (35 grams*), decal weight (20 grams?...mine never had decals*), and I9 vs. Chris King hub weight (50 grams*) you pretty much have the difference from what mine weigh. 

*All my weights are approximate guesses as I'm not the most hardcore weight weenie...only a 3 or 4 on a scale of 10!


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

jeffrey j said:


> *All my weights are approximate guesses as I'm not the most hardcore weight weenie...only a 3 or 4 on a scale of 10!


Scale might be off...probably closer to 10 than 1 (sweet wheels btw ; )


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

Ha! I do have my days where I relapse back to my old self!


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

The spokes on my wheels are in fact bladed just checked. So not sure I'll have to contact NOX and see if they have an idea of why the discrepancy


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Do you have a kitchen scale? If not, maybe borrow one. For example, I weighed my new Maxxis Ikon 29x2.35 tire yesterday. With the hanging/brand cardboard, 725g. Without the card, 699g. Didn't realize a small piece of card would weigh 26g.



gremlin said:


> The spokes on my wheels are in fact bladed just checked. So not sure I'll have to contact NOX and see if they have an idea of why the discrepancy


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

justaute said:


> Do you have a kitchen scale? If not, maybe borrow one. For example, I weighed my new Maxxis Ikon 29x2.35 tire yesterday. With the hanging/brand cardboard, 725g. Without the card, 699g. Didn't realize a small piece of card would weigh 26g.


Absolutely, here ya go, I weighed the only thing I had in the same sort of order of magnitude the drive side crank arm from an X1 with a wolfs 30T ring on it. I weighed the paper towel in both cases:















As you can see from this small, and one sample test my scale seems relatively accurate. OR at least consistent.

Sorry for the orientation they appear correctly on my desktop I'm guessing the upload doesn't respect the rotation EXIF metadata

I'm having trouble finding anything in a quick search on the king web site for the weight of their hubs, I found one chart which seems to indicate about 438g for the pair, but the I9 site definitely says 435, this doesnt' jive with NOX's King build weighing more than I9 so they must have found a different value somewhere.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

gremlin said:


> Absolutely, here ya go, I weighed the only thing I had in the same sort of order of magnitude the drive side crank arm from an X1 with a wolfs 30T ring on it. I weighed the paper towel in both cases:
> 
> View attachment 930451
> View attachment 930452
> ...


What chart, looking at the King website, the lighter 15mm F 164g with a 142 R 325g should come in at 489g total.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

gremlin...use this chart. I'm not sure which CK hubs you have.

Hub Specs | Chris King Precision Components


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

justaute said:


> gremlin...use this chart. I'm not sure which CK hubs you have.
> 
> Hub Specs | Chris King Precision Components


Yup that was the one I was using, will have to go look at the hubs to determine which one, the ones I added up were the classic mountain


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

hmmm...I would've thought yours is the ISO Disc model in the lower table.



gremlin said:


> Yup that was the one I was using, will have to go look at the hubs to determine which one, the ones I added up were the classic mountain


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

justaute said:


> hmmm...I would've thought yours is the ISO Disc model in the lower table.


That is likely correct, whatever they are they were the ones offered from the NOX site, I Just had them build wheels from their site. Not sure if they just added the difference from a set of I9's they built or just measured one a while ago and there's that much variation in CK's hubs, and sapim spokes or whatever. Interesting how they go about the measurements.


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

Just for future reference...if anyone wants more of a custom/personalized build, I used forum member 'dgaddis' (Dustin Gaddis of Southern Wheel Works) for my build and he was fantastic. He listened to what I was looking for, for my trails/riding, and built up a set of fantastic wheels for me. Little things like using brass nipples to avoid corrosion on these FL trails is something I never would have thought of.

He kept me informed of when each part showed up, and got them finished/shipped quick once everything arrived. If I recall, he actually weighed each part individually when he was getting stuff in, then weighed the whole wheel set before he shipped them out. Super nice guy and rims have been bullet proof!


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

gremlin...did you ever contact Nox? Just curious.


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

justaute said:


> gremlin...did you ever contact Nox? Just curious.


I did not contact them but a rep responded on this thread and said the following:



> Park hanging scales are not accurate enough to begin with, they only read out to +/- 28g (1 oz) resolution. So first use a more accurate scale and see where you really are. Weights are based on published hub weights with a real-world check (in this case we probably did an I9 build as a baseline). As you probably know, most hub manufactures list weights based on best-case scenario, and depending on the end-cap config, freehub, shell version (LD vs. SD for Kings) you can add easily some weight over the published hub weights and hence be off from our published wheelset weights. We also don't include tape or valves in our published weights even though these do come installed on wheels. I'd say between the hub weights possibly being more than the advertised weight, the park scale rounding up to the next oz and the weight of tape/valves, the mystery is solved. Our rim weights are spec'd +/- 10g and we don't see much/any variance in spoke weights.


So I can't assume a direct response would be any different, I did prove the scale is consistent with a kitchen scale I own, so it doesn't seem like the +/- 1 oz is likely affecting it, and still it's off by more than that, these are nearly a half lb more than expected. My Kings are 15mm front with a 142/12 rear so that should be nearly the lightest set, if they do this from published weights I kind of get that, but they should then validate against built sets as they build them and do some sort of average would be more accurate.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Back of the envelop I'd have expected your wheels to weight ~1676g with tape & valve stems. If you're at the high end on the rim weights on both rims then ~1696g.

CK SD Front 32	172.3
Nox AM275	420
CK ISO Rear 32 12x142	326
Nox AM275	420
Sapim CXRay (64)	279.0
Sapim Polyax Alloy 14mm (64)	21.8
Stans Tape & Valves	37
1676


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Therein lies my curiosity in that the Nox listed weight is estimated to be ~1,598g. If the estimate is in the ball-park of 1,650g, then the variance is understandable. Not that it's a big deal.

I like the way Southern Wheelworks does his build; he weighs all the components before he puts them together.



seleniak said:


> Back of the envelop I'd have expected your wheels to weight ~1676g with tape & valve stems. If you're at the high end on the rim weights on both rims then ~1696g.
> 
> CK SD Front 32	172.3
> Nox AM275	420
> ...


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

*Skyline 27.5 Real World Weights*

I received my Skyline 27.5 rims yesterday, and immediately weighed them. I ordered them with Industry 9 hubs (SRAM driver on rear).

Weights include tape and valve stems/caps, weighed on Feedback digital hanging scale (see pics):

Front: 650g
Rear: 770 g

THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL!! I now have all I need for the one-bike quiver, which is my SC 5010. I have the AM275s already, so what I've done is built two wheelsets, complete with brakes and cassette, for easy no-hassle switching. In the summer I spend time at Mammoth where my kids live, and will xc race (old man master) and all-mountain/enduro/light dh in the same day. So...

AM/Enduro setup: Nox AM275 wheels, Specialized Butcher 2.3 front, Purgatory 2.3 rear (tires combined 1775g).

XC: Nox Skyline 27.5 wheels, Pro-Ti rotor bolts, Maxxis Crossmark 2.1 front and rear (499g per tire).

The difference is a shade over 1.5 lbs of rotating weight, which you can really feel over the course of a day of peddling.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi guys, a few comments from the thread.

1. Yes we did have a pricing error on the website which has been fixed. 
2. We are working on refining all listed weights. I do think the published Farlow 275 weights were low, so we have updated those. The rest seemed very close but we are doing real-world weights as we ship wheels to back up those numbers. Published weights are for 32h builds without tape/valves. 28h builds are generally 40-50g less for 2 wheels.
3. Just to reiterate, the AM-275/AM-29 are now called the Farlow. It is the same rim (i.e. same molds), but the Farlow does have angled drill holes, hence the increase in pricing. 
4. FWIW, the Elite/Feedback scale is more accurate than the Park one (10g resolution versus 28g)!
5. More pics of all rims/wheels are coming!

Any more questions, post here or shoot us an email [email protected]. Thanks guys!


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## gremlin (Feb 13, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Hi guys, a few comments from the thread.
> 2. We are working on refining all listed weights. I do think the published Farlow 275 weights were low, so we have updated those....
> 4. FWIW, the Elite/Feedback scale is more accurate than the Park one (10g resolution versus 28g)!


So I take it from this my weights were probably more accurate, that's a little disappointing as getting to that weight is one of the reasons I went with your wheels. As for the scales being more accurate, I'm not so sure about that, as I demonstrated with my pictures I had two scales (a mid to high end digital kitchen scale) and my park scale weighing close to the same, and it's not like we were possibly off more than an ounce, the claimed weights however were off significantly more than the scale resolution.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Interesting. I'm going to contact my builder about the spec.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

gremlin said:


> So I take it from this my weights were probably more accurate, that's a little disappointing as getting to that weight is one of the reasons I went with your wheels. As for the scales being more accurate, I'm not so sure about that, as I demonstrated with my pictures I had two scales (a mid to high end digital kitchen scale) and my park scale weighing close to the same, and it's not like we were possibly off more than an ounce, the claimed weights however were off significantly more than the scale resolution.


Yes, however I suspect the weights you saw on our website were for a 28h build. We originally listed the best-case weight scenario (28h, no tape or valves). We've since decided that's a little misleading since 95% of what we build is 32h so the weights now are for 32h builds. 28h builds save appx 60g per wheelset. Rim weights do vary +/- 10g, so if you are on the unfortunate end of the rim specs, you could end up with net difference of 60g (32h build) + 20g (rim tolerance) + 20g (valves/tape) = ~100g over what was listed a few weeks ago.

Based on our scales, King hubs are appx 70g heavier than the new I9 Torch in common configs. King hub weights do vary quite a bit depending on the axle config and freehub so depending on your setup that could account for the extra ~30g.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> I'm still desiding of the new graphics, I don't know if I like them!!


I like the old rim decals much better.

I've got a set of 650b Teocallis with P321 hubs coming soon from Project321.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Does anyone have new picts of the new decals in color like blue?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Decals are subjective, we can't make everyone happy, but I can tell you the new ones are much higher quality and look really really cool on the bike. We'll get some full bike pics up. Custom colors are available if the white isn't your thing. And our decals are easily removable if you want to go stealth.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> Does anyone have new picts of the new decals in color like blue?


I'd like to see the new decals done in the same color scheme as the old ones which fade from light grey to black. The new ones are too white and bright but not a deal breaker for me. I can hardly wait to try them out.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

FWIW...I was told $50 for decals of other colors.



JNG said:


> I'd like to see the new decals done in the same color scheme as the old ones which fade from light grey to black. The new ones are too white and bright but not a deal breaker for me. I can hardly wait to try them out.


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## ebenke (Sep 1, 2008)

justaute said:


> FWIW...I was told $50 for decals of other colors.


Same here, I contacted NOX the other day...the do custom colors. Very cool...

EBenke


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

justaute said:


> FWIW...I was told $50 for decals of other colors.


Not trying to bash NOX, but considering you can get custom colors from Slik Graphics for $25, $50 seems pretty steep considering.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> Not trying to bash NOX, but considering you can get custom colors from Slik Graphics for $25, $50 seems pretty steep considering.


100% agree. My view is more like give a $50 discount if you want your stickers to stay on. Obviously there must be those willing to pay. I tend to de sticker things as I prefer the clean look. Though I've been too lazy to take the suckers off my nox wheels.


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

For the love of crap, it's this kind of sh1t that punctuates everything that's what's wrong with this industry. "My stickers don't match my kit". Oh the humanity.


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## movingmountain (Jun 6, 2004)

Exactly!!!


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

El Castigador said:


> For the love of crap, it's this kind of sh1t that punctuates everything that's what's wrong with this industry. "My stickers don't match my kit". Oh the humanity.


1st world problems


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

El Castigador said:


> For the love of crap, it's this kind of sh1t that punctuates everything that's what's wrong with this industry. "My stickers don't match my kit". Oh the humanity.


^props. Whole new meaning to "sticker shock."


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

El Castigador said:


> For the love of crap, it's this kind of sh1t that punctuates everything that's what's wrong with this industry. "My stickers don't match my kit". Oh the humanity.


[IMG alt="Smiley"]https://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif[/IMG] [IMG alt="Smiley"]https://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif[/IMG] [IMG alt="Smiley"]https://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif[/IMG]


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Here are a few custom colors from the line today:


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I like them, a pop of color but not over the top!!


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## ebenke (Sep 1, 2008)

Which wheels are those pictured? The decal graphics look different.


EBenke


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

Just got a short test ride on my Teo29/I9s. I'm pleased so far, however, the trails are a bit unique today. Poor weather selection...








These landed at 1568g (731 front, 837 rear) with tape & stems. Tubeless install for Spec Ground Controls was flawless. I quickly noticed they are more stiff than the Crest/Hope/DTComps they replaced (as expected) and are about 125g lighter.

Can't wait to get in some real miles on these!


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

pdlhrd said:


> Just got a short test ride on my Teo29/I9s. I'm pleased so far, however, the trails are a bit unique today. Poor weather selection...
> View attachment 938807
> 
> 
> ...


Nice build! What's she weighing?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Nice bike! Can't remember if we posted this in this thread, but we are running two Czars in our demo fleet. Great bikes.


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Nice bike! Can't remember if we posted this in this thread, but we are running two Czars in our demo fleet. Great bikes.
> 
> View attachment 938808












More Czar/Nox love...awesome bike, awesome wheels!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

NoxComposites said:


> Nice bike! Can't remember if we posted this in this thread, but we are running two Czars in our demo fleet. Great bikes.
> 
> View attachment 938808


I was thinking my Nox might need something new to go along with em. Czar hmmmmmmm........


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

El Castigador said:


> Nice build! What's she weighing?


It's a slight bit under 25lb. Large frame, 120 Revelation.


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

pdlhrd said:


> It's a slight bit under 25lb. Large frame, 120 Revelation.


Sweet! My XL is right at 27lbs with a 120mm Pike, dropper, and heavy 8"/7" Hope V2's. Absolutely LOVE that rig...soooooo fast!


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

pdlhrd said:


> Just got a short test ride on my Teo29/I9s. I'm pleased so far, however with the trails are a bit unique today. Poor weather ApproximateThese landed at 1568g (731 front, 837 rear) with tape & stems. Tubeless install for Spec Ground Controls was flawless. I quickly noticed they are more stiff than the Crest/Hope/DTComps they replaced (as expected) and are about 125g lighter.
> 
> Can't wait to get in some real miles on these!


They look great! Got my Teo 29/I9 combo ordered the other day too, but in 28h configuration with brass nipples. Probably be similar weight range. Approx how long did these take to arrive?


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

El Castigador said:


> Sweet! My XL is right at 27lbs with a 120mm Pike, dropper, and heavy 8"/7" Hope V2's. Absolutely LOVE that rig...soooooo fast!


The Pike is compelling. It's always a fine line between weight control, yet burly enough to still be fun...


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

jeffrey j said:


> They look great! Got my Teo 29/I9 combo ordered the other day too, but in 28h configuration with brass nipples. Probably be similar weight range. Approx how long did these take to arrive?


They took about 6 weeks but I pre-ordered them before the rims were in stock. I would expect they should be much quicker now. Took about 2.5 weeks to arrive once I received the email that they had entered their "build queue".


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

Sweet! I've got dgaddis over at SWW building mine up, so hopefully I can get close to the 2.5 week mark. Sucks that it snowed where you are when you got the wheels. Are you in a location where it will clear up before full-on winter sets in, or are you having to wait until spring to ride?


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## rangerbait (Jul 15, 2007)

pdlhrd said:


> The Pike is compelling. It's always a fine line between weight control, yet burly enough to still be fun...


I was a little concerned with putting a Pike on it at first, but it doesn't feel over forked at all.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Teo 29s have been hugely popular and we didn't get quite the yield we were expecting from the last production batch, so we are running a bit behind on those rims. Working on getting caught up!


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## pdlhrd (Jun 6, 2006)

jeffrey j said:


> Sweet! I've got dgaddis over at SWW building mine up, so hopefully I can get close to the 2.5 week mark. Sucks that it snowed where you are when you got the wheels. Are you in a location where it will clear up before full-on winter sets in, or are you having to wait until spring to ride?


I'm in Boise, Id. Our local trails vary from ~2800-7600ft. The upper elevation trails are all closed now but our lower trails, <3500, are usually rideable throughout the winter. March ends up being the toughest month due to spring rain & muddy trails.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Finally have had some time on my set, so wanted to throw up my thoughts. This was my first carbon wheelset, and I am really blown away by how much a difference these make. Between the additional stiffness (which is was shocking to me) and being able to run slightly lower PSI due to the wider rim, my bike rides completely different, obviously in a much better way. Really happy I did this, and the folks at Nox couldn't be nicer or more friendly to deal with.

This is the only decent pic on mine I have here at work. Details - Farlow rims, King hubs (20 TA front, 142 w/stainless hubshell rear), brass nips, Sapim D-light spokes. I think the total weight was 1874g with the tape and valves. 

FYI, I was coming off a set of Kings laced to Flow EX's with Sapim Race spokes and brass nips.


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm currently building up a Tallboy LT and need to re-lace my King hubs (used on my old Blur) to 29er hoops. I'm considering Nox rims, but the price difference between Stans Flows and the Teocalli is pretty big. Can anyone comment on how much of a difference they found when switching from aluminum rims to carbon on a 29er?

Thanks in advance.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

cburdick1 said:


> I'm currently building up a Tallboy LT and need to re-lace my King hubs (used on my old Blur) to 29er hoops. I'm considering Nox rims, but the price difference between Stans Flows and the Teocalli is pretty big. Can anyone comment on how much of a difference they found when switching from aluminum rims to carbon on a 29er?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


This was just posted before your post and about sums it up for me. 
They should be lighter too.

Finally have had some time on my set, so wanted to throw up my thoughts. This was my first carbon wheelset, and I am really blown away by how much a difference these make. Between the additional stiffness (which is was shocking to me) and being able to run slightly lower PSI due to the wider rim, my bike rides completely different, obviously in a much better way. Really happy I did this, and the folks at Nox couldn't be nicer or more friendly to deal with.


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hmm. Perhaps if I had read more carefully I would have seen that. Sorry for the redundancy.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Considering Teocalli and Farlow for primarily aggressive trail-riding and occassional enduro racing in Texas (rocks). I weigh about 200 lbs and ride relatively aggressively.

Any recommendation as to which I should choose? Reasons?

Thanks.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

I'd recommend the Farlow for Enduro racing at 200lbs. The extra stiffness and width seems more appropriate for racing where the climbs aren't timed. That's the exact kind of riding we had in mind when we designed the Farlow. Light enough for long climbs, but really shines on techy trails and downhills. 

One thing to consider if that with a 29mm inner width, you may get by with a 2.3" tire versus needing a 2.5" on a 20mm rim. We find the carcass really opens up on the wide rim. One of our demo/test bikes is a Pivot Mach 6 with Farlows, 2.3 DHF on the front and 2.3 DHR2 on the rear and it's an amazing amount of traction and really not that heavy.


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Deleted.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the quick input. Just to be sure -- you still recommend the Farlows even if I plan on only doing a couple of enduros?



NoxComposites said:


> I'd recommend the Farlow for Enduro racing at 200lbs. The extra stiffness and width seems more appropriate for racing where the climbs aren't timed. That's the exact kind of riding we had in mind when we designed the Farlow. Light enough for long climbs, but really shines on techy trails and downhills.
> 
> One thing to consider if that with a 29mm inner width, you may get by with a 2.3" tire versus needing a 2.5" on a 20mm rim. We find the carcass really opens up on the wide rim. One of our demo/test bikes is a Pivot Mach 6 with Farlows, 2.3 DHF on the front and 2.3 DHR2 on the rear and it's an amazing amount of traction and really not that heavy.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

At 200lbs I would try to talk you into the Farlow mostly for added stiffness and width. The Teo is a great trail rim and would be fine at your weight too (and it's pretty damn wide too). It comes down to how much of a weight weenie you are and what part of your riding are you looking to improve most (climbing or descending). Everyone's priorities are different so there is no easy answer.

Here are some pics of a 2.3 DHF mounted on a Farlow 275. That's actually an Ikon 2.35 on the rear in these pics. And for those interested, this is a good example of our custom decals - these are black fill, red stroke.


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

I would go with the Farlow too. I currently use the AM27.5 (very similar, just older version) and they are great. Rock solid, stiff, and I GUARANTEE if you get the Teo you're going to wonder what it's like to have the slightly wider rim. Teocalli is what I've got coming for my hard tail 29er, where I want a little lighter weight (I didn't want as narrow as the Skyline) but don't think I'd get those if I just now ordering wheels for my SC 5010...

BTW Nox, THANK YOU for the stickers for my 275's!!! I'll bet that Pivot is sweet shredding down the Washing Machine, and it looks light enough to make the climb getting there not too terribly brutal either.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks. Mine will go on a AM (plus a couple of enduro a year) hardtail, which is the reason I'm having the Teo/Farlow debate.



jeffrey j said:


> I would go with the Farlow too. I currently use the AM27.5 (very similar, just older version) and they are great. Rock solid, stiff, and I GUARANTEE if you get the Teo you're going to wonder what it's like to have the slightly wider rim. Teocalli is what I've got coming for my hard tail 29er, where I want a little lighter weight (I didn't want as narrow as the Skyline) but don't think I'd get those if I just now ordering wheels for my SC 5010...
> 
> BTW Nox, THANK YOU for the stickers for my 275's!!! I'll bet that Pivot is sweet shredding down the Washing Machine, and it looks light enough to make the climb getting there not too terribly brutal either.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

jsutaute,

See my original post a page or so back with regards to my thoughts on the Farlows I just built. I'm your weight as well. I'm runnign the same tires Nox mentioned above (DHF, DHR2). The stiffness and the traction on these is unreal, and they are still light for what they are. You can't go wrong with the Farlows IMHO, you'll be more than pleased.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

yah...Farlow is where I'm leaning. Even though the new wheels are going on a hardtail, and I want to "save" some weight, the incremental weight of Farlow (~100g) doesn't seem much. My hardtail is not a feather-weight XC machine, anyway. Of course, always prefer lighter to heavier.

Thanks again.



rscecil007 said:


> jsutaute,
> 
> See my original post a page or so back with regards to my thoughts on the Farlows I just built. I'm your weight as well. I'm runnign the same tires Nox mentioned above (DHF, DHR2). The stiffness and the traction on these is unreal, and they are still light for what they are. You can't go wrong with the Farlows IMHO, you'll be more than pleased.


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## maindog (Mar 4, 2014)

NoxComposites said:


> Here are some pics of a 2.3 DHF mounted on a Farlow 275. That's actually an Ikon 2.35 on the rear in these pics. And for those interested, this is a good example of our custom decals - these are black fill, red stroke.
> 
> Does the Ikon look bigger than the DHF? I have AM27.5 rims with an Ikon at the rear and a DHR 2 2.3 at the front and the Ikon looks bigger and taller...


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## jeffrey j (Jul 10, 2010)

justaute said:


> Thanks. Mine will go on a AM (plus a couple of enduro a year) hardtail, which is the reason I'm having the Teo/Farlow debate.


Well since it's a hard tail, the extra volume of the Farlow might be nice? I ALMOST got the Farlow's for my 29er hard tail, but weight was my main goal with that bike. My SC 5010 with XX1, KS Lev dropper, CC DBInline, and pedals mounted only weighs 25.5 lbs right now, so you could still end up with a pretty light bike using the Farlow.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

That would seem to be be the rationale for the Farlow. A bit more volume, thus a bit lower air pressure in the tires. I'm thinking that would provide more, however small, traction and cushion on the hardtail for those couple of enduro races I want to do.

An AM-hardtail can always use more traction and cushion.  I just hope the "logic" here is sound.



jeffrey j said:


> Well since it's a hard tail, the extra volume of the Farlow might be nice? I ALMOST got the Farlow's for my 29er hard tail, but weight was my main goal with that bike. My SC 5010 with XX1, KS Lev dropper, CC DBInline, and pedals mounted only weighs 25.5 lbs right now, so you could still end up with a pretty light bike using the Farlow.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

maindog said:


> Does the Ikon look bigger than the DHF? I have AM27.5 rims with an Ikon at the rear and a DHR 2 2.3 at the front and the Ikon looks bigger and taller...


Yes, the Ikon 2.35 is a higher volume tire for sure.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They look really good, I love the stealth look!!


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the pics. You need to flip the bike around, or rotate the wheels ~45 degrees clockwise, so we know the brand is NOX, not XON or OXN. 



NoxComposites said:


> At 200lbs I would try to talk you into the Farlow mostly for added stiffness and width. The Teo is a great trail rim and would be fine at your weight too (and it's pretty damn wide too). It comes down to how much of a weight weenie you are and what part of your riding are you looking to improve most (climbing or descending). Everyone's priorities are different so there is no easy answer.
> 
> Here are some pics of a 2.3 DHF mounted on a Farlow 275. That's actually an Ikon 2.35 on the rear in these pics. And for those interested, this is a good example of our custom decals - these are black fill, red stroke.
> 
> ...


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Embrace the asymmetry!


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

^^ Black Friday sale special for MTB members?! Planning on waiting until next summer unless you can make me a deal I can't refuse now! 
Also, can you do builds with Hadley hubs? Didn't see them on your list.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## depeche4 (Dec 2, 2012)

those look so wicked. Are those wheels anymore than the original 27.5's? I love the fact that there is no weight restriction. At 210 and a hard rider, that is very attractive.


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## RSAmerica (Aug 24, 2012)

**SOLD****
Nox Composites AM-275 Carbon Fiber Rims/Chris King Hubs Mountain Wheels set

See the MTBR Ad Here:
Nox Composites AM-275 Carbon Fiber Rims/Chris King Hubs Mountain Wheels set *New* - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Rims: Nox Composites AM-275 Carbon Fiber (27.5" / 650B) Internal Width 29mm 
(Same rim as Farlow 275, NOX just changed the name in October '14)

Hubs: Chris King ISO 15mm Front/QR Rear, 32 Hole, Color - Pewter 
(King ISO hub are Convertible to different axle standard)

Spokes: SAPIM CX-RAY
Nipples: SAPIM Aluminum

Wheels built by Dave Thomas www. speeddream.com, one of the top wheel builders.
Lacing is Dave's super strong and light 2 cross / 3 cross build. (Front: 3 cross rotor side / 2 cross non-rotor side Rear: 3 Cross Drive side/ 2 cross non-Drive side) Dave has been building my wheels since the '90s. His wheels are bullet proof!

I got the wheels the beginning of November and used them a 1/2 dozen times.
The wheel set has super precise handling, is stiff and the wide rim has great grip cornering and climbing.
The wheel set is just over kill for my XC riding. Great for an all mountain aggressive rider.

I paid $1,700 for the wheel set.
Price $1,300

Nox Composites AM-275 Carbon Fiber Rims/Chris King Hubs Mountain Wheels set *New* - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## depeche4 (Dec 2, 2012)

you ship to canada? do you have the rear adaptor to 142x12?

dave


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## RSAmerica (Aug 24, 2012)

Shipping is Additional USA and Canada. You will have to get the adaptor from King.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Really digging the new Teocalli's. I've built two sets recently, one with White Industries CLD hubs, 32H, Revolutions and alloy nipples, 1,505g. Another with I9 hubs, 28H, Revolutions and brass nipples, 1,515g.

The improved nipple angle makes building much easier as the tension gets high.


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## seking (Jan 12, 2013)

Liking the Teos on my Ripley. They have handled some pretty chunky trails very well.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

I have the xcr 29s, and while the wheels are nice, they are an absolute pain in the ass to set up tubeless. The tape won't stick in the rim channel and the speed evolution valves don't seal the valve holes worth crap. What set-up are you all using?


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

G-Choro said:


> I have the xcr 29s, and while the wheels are nice, they are an absolute pain in the ass to set up tubeless. The tape won't stick in the rim channel and the speed evolution valves don't seal the valve holes worth crap. What set-up are you all using?


I have XCR 29s, built by Nox, and sent to me with tape and valves installed. Set up was the easiest I've done. That was with Specialized 2bliss Ground Controls, 2.3 S works front, 2.0 Control rear.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

ACree said:


> I have XCR 29s, built by Nox, and sent to me with tape and valves installed. Set up was the easiest I've done. That was with Specialized 2bliss Ground Controls, 2.3 S works front, 2.0 Control rear.


This was my experience as well, but I used a racing Ralph and a knobby Nick.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

My wheels were not built by nox and did not come with valves or tape installed. So I've had to do that part myself. Still, it shouldn't be as difficult as it has been. 

Is nox's rim tape any different from stan's?


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

NOX appears to use some type of TPP tape and strongly discourages "thick" rim tape. See top of page 2.

TPP tapes are usually pretty thin (e.g. Kapton @ 1mm). I don't have my NOX yet so I can't tell you whether Kapton would work, but I can tell you Kapton is much thinner than the Stan's I have.

http://www.noxcomposites.com/sites/default/files/nox_instructions.pdf



G-Choro said:


> My wheels were not built by nox and did not come with valves or tape installed. So I've had to do that part myself. Still, it shouldn't be as difficult as it has been.
> 
> Is nox's rim tape any different from stan's?


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Knockoff of Nox? Just saw these NOBL 29"/700c Matte - 36mm | NOBL Wheels | Online Store 1st rims I've seen that seem to have all the features of Nox. Knockoffs?

If so, copy and raise the price is a unique strategy.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/nobl-carbon-wheels-900202.html



ACree said:


> Knockoff of Nox? Just saw these NOBL 29"/700c Matte - 36mm | NOBL Wheels | Online Store 1st rims I've seen that seem to have all the features of Nox. Knockoffs?
> 
> If so, copy and raise the price is a unique strategy.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Good find. I remember that thread now that I see it again. I remember thinking they ewe rent doing anything special with what looked like normal LB rims. The current rims look nothing like LB though.



justaute said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/nobl-carbon-wheels-900202.html


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

G-Choro said:


> I have the xcr 29s, and while the wheels are nice, they are an absolute pain in the ass to set up tubeless. The tape won't stick in the rim channel and the speed evolution valves don't seal the valve holes worth crap. What set-up are you all using?


On my XCR's I'm using Stan's tape and valves, and I send out all customer builds set up the same way. No issues.

Clean the rim off before installing new tape.

Stretch the tape tight, and push it down into the center channel. I do a bit at a time, so stretch out a foot or so, go back and press it down (press hard), then continue working around the rim.

Here's a tip for getting valves to seal: instead of cutting an "X" for the valve to go through, poke a hole in the tape. I use a pick to start a hole, then a philip's screw driver to enlarge the hole. Makes for a tight-ish fit with the valve, and no rip in the tape that could grow and cause you to lose a seal.

EDIT: Also make sure you're using a wide enough tape. With the XCR use 25mm, for the Teocalli's and Farlows/AM I use 27mm.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks. I'll give it another go.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The key is all in the prep, clean inside of rim with 3m scruff pad. Clean than with rubbing alcohol, wipe dry with paper towel. Put rim back into your upside down bike or truing stand. Start at valve overlap 8 inches, also make sure rim and tape are warm not cold. Work hard at stretching tape as you go around getting air out along the way, I use cotton cloth pushing it hard into tape as I go around. Overlap another 8 inches, cut clean with scissors. Use cloth again going around so all is firm in place, I than heat my pointed awl with torch and make a perfect whole for valve.

The reason your valve is not sealing is because your tape job is faulty!!


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

I've scuffed and cleaned the rims, but according to stan's installation instructions was cutting an "x" in the tape for the valve hole. Sounds like using an awl might be the way to go.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Agreed, almost anytime you get air coming out around your valve, it is bc air is getting under the tape and into a spoke hole somewhere and then out the valve hole.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Fixed! The awl approach was perfect. I actually used a small soldering iron. Now they are holding air even before adding sealant. 

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

I just got a set of Teocalli 275 wheels with P321 hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.

*The Good*
With stans yellow tape and valve stems the front wheel weighs 706g and rear is 812g, The hubs are 15mm thru axel front and 12x142 rear.

*The Bad*
I mounted a set of 2.25" Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires. If I didn't have an air compressor I never would have got them on!

*The Very BAD* *Correction*
After mounting them they didn't look as wide as the hans dampfs I have mounted on some ARCH EX rims. I measured and was right. On the Teocalli rims the Hans Dampf tires are 3/16" of an inch narrower, measured from the outside of the knobs at the widest point of each tire.
The Teocalli rims made a 2.25" tire into a 2.06" tire. Somehow the extra 5mm of internal width has shrunk the width of my tire. Exactly the opposite effect I was looking for.
I have since put the old Hans Dampf tire on the new Teocalli Rim and it measures exactly the same width. Either the old Hans Dampf stretched over time or the new damps are just narrower.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

JNG said:


> I just got a set of Teocalli 275 wheels with P321 hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.
> 
> *The Good*
> With stans yellow tape and valve stems the front wheel weighs 706g and rear is 812g, The hubs are 15mm thru axel front and 12x142 rear.
> ...


Not possible. I'm not sure what your issue is, but the rims aren't to blame.


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## RSAmerica (Aug 24, 2012)

"The Very BAD

After mounting them they didn't look as wide as the hans dampfs I have mounted on some ARCH EX rims. I measured and was right. On the Teocalli rims the Hans Dampf tires are 3/16" of an inch narrower, measured from the outside of the knobs at the widest point of each tire.

The Teocalli rims made a 2.25" tire into a 2.06" tire. Somehow the extra 5mm of internal width has shrunk the width of my tire. Exactly the opposite effect I was looking for. :madman:"

It's because the Stan rims have very low side walls, the NOX rim side wall is very tall. Stan has a patient on the low sidewall rim. The low side wall allows the tire to bulge out over the rim.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

JNG said:


> I just got a set of Teocalli 275 wheels with P321 hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.
> 
> *The Good*
> With stans yellow tape and valve stems the front wheel weighs 706g and rear is 812g, The hubs are 15mm thru axel front and 12x142 rear.
> ...


Take the tire you measured on the Arch off and put that tire on the Teocalli at the same psi. If you just threw on a brand new tire, they can effectively 'stretch' for several hours to days as you leave it inflated, and riding on/breaking in the tire will aid in this process happening even quicker.

If you want to get an accurate measurement on the change in effective width, best to put the same tire (not the same model, but the actual tire itself) on both rims, same psi on both.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

NoCoMTB said:


> Take the tire you measured on the Arch off and put that tire on the Teocalli at the same psi. If you just threw on a brand new tire, they can effectively 'stretch' for several hours to days as you leave it inflated, and riding on/breaking in the tire will aid in this process happening even quicker.
> 
> If you want to get an accurate measurement on the change in effective width, best to put the same tire (not the same model, but the actual tire itself) on both rims, same psi on both.


Thanks. This weekend I'll take off the old Hans Dampfs and try them on the Teocalli wheels to see.


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## RSAmerica (Aug 24, 2012)

FYI, I had a set of NOX AM275 29mm internal width build up and mounted the same 2015 Nobby Nic tire and tire was only .080 wider them when mounted on my Stan Crest with 21mm internal width. Even tho the rim is 8mm 0.315 wider. It's because the Stan's rim has a very low sidewall.


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## RSAmerica (Aug 24, 2012)

Also at the same rear tire pressure of 23 psi I would feel the NOX rim bottom out much more then with crest rim.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

I think I may have found my answer in this article:
WIDE rims

With the wider rims the tread sits flatter so the knobs on the edge of the tire do not flare out as much.


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## challybert (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm on 29 external / 23 mm internal carbon rims (EnveM60) Thus far I have no complaints and I'm listening closely to the ongoing wide 26-28/29 internal and the superwide +30mm internal. Learning a bit everyday.

I ride trails....lots of pedal up with short descents to yet another short technical uphill followed by another technical flowy downhill. The tires I run are generally 2.3/2.35 sized...Butcher Control/DHF/DHRii front; Slaughter / Ikon /DHRII rear. I have not been displeased with the performance of these tire on my present 29exteral/23 internal rims.

So, given the type of trails/conditions I ride routinely, how will mounting these same tires on a Farlow 29 internal or Ibis 741 35 internal improve things, again given the trails I ride. My riding is not up a fire road to get to a long down hill section. Might be that neighter are right for me and the Teocalli may be a better fit, albeit ony 3mm wider.


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

JNG said:


> Quote Originally Posted by NoCoMTB View Post
> Take the tire you measured on the Arch off and put that tire on the Teocalli at the same psi. If you just threw on a brand new tire, they can effectively 'stretch' for several hours to days as you leave it inflated, and riding on/breaking in the tire will aid in this process happening even quicker.
> 
> If you want to get an accurate measurement on the change in effective width, best to put the same tire (not the same model, but the actual tire itself) on both rims, same psi on both.
> ...


Turns out that the old Hans Dampf is wider across the treads by over 1/8". Either the new Dampfs are just narrower or the old tire stretched over time.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Building up new bike with my new NOX am29 wheels. Just wondering from those who might also ride with NOX wheels and ride on trails with loose chunky rocks that often kick up and ding rims, how has durability been? My alum rims have always held up fine. They have silver marks as anodization is marred from rock hit, but no denting. Thinking about using some protection film like on carbon frame. Thoughts? Anyone have a rim that has taken some rock hits on sides?


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

My experience has been that they are extremely durable, and while they still get scratches, they are more resistant to the cosmetic rock rash you are speaking of than aluminum rims.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Good to hear. Thanks for feedback. Hope others can chime in and echo same and I'll relax.


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

I have the original NOX XC rims. They have been solid. They've held up well to rock/trail strikes. I don't even think about it when dropping into a a section of loose rock and junk--the 100mm Reba's what's holding me back. I wouldn't bother with any protection film personally. No engineer, but I get the feeling that if something destroys these rims, it would have nuked an alum. rim. You'll love them!


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Just got my set of Nox Farlow AM's. Had them built up with I9 hubs. Mounted them to my Nomad 650b and hit the trail. The stiffness is immediately apparent and they performed flawlessly over many types of terrain. Very impressed thus far


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## _tarzan (Aug 10, 2014)

JNG said:


> Turns out that the old Hans Dampf is wider across the treads by over 1/8". Either the new Dampfs are just narrower or the old tire stretched over time.


Some Schwalbe tyres streches out over time, I've seen the Rock Razor stretch frighteningly much.

Just sold my Roval Control Carbons, had the Crests before them (the Crests were flexy as hell at 1560g!). Now I'm trying to decide between the Skyline and Teocalli. My riding is primarily trail riding with an aggressive touch. Sometimes I do jumps and drops I probably shouldn't do on a short travel bike. Then again, at times I race XC and marathon and with my next 29er maybe even an odd enduro event from time to time. But, my weight is only 140 lbs (64kg).

Will those Skylines take that occasional beating I give them and is the difference to teocallis basically less stiffness? Another important question, are the skylines stiffer than Roval Control Carbons?


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## ebenke (Sep 1, 2008)

Sounds like I ride like you. I'm going from Roval XC Trails to Derby hoops. We ride lots of AM technical stuff. I'm more concerned with stiffness than ultra light weight.

PS - Out west NOX are nearly impossible to source and the Derbys run about $120 less. However NOX were my first my choice.


EBenke


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hello all. I picked up my Teocalli 29er wheelset from the shop yesterday.

They are laced to a set of King hubs that I've had for 8 years or so. Don't remember which spokes / nipples. 

Weights:

Front with 15mm axle 736g / 1lb 10oz
Rear with 142x12 axle 885g / 1lb 15.2 oz

That's 1621, or just a bit less than Nox lists on their website (1628). Though I don't have an alu rimmed wheelset around to compare them with, they feel super light, much lighter than I expected, and certainly lighter than the 26" King/Mavic UST wheelset that I had this past season. 

Wont get any rides on them for a while as I'm building the bike up as cash becomes available, but I'll post a review as soon as I get some time on them.

Happy new year.


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Loving these Farlow Wheels with I9 hubs. I did remove the decals for the stealth look though


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

attaboy said:


> Building up new bike with my new NOX am29 wheels. Just wondering from those who might also ride with NOX wheels and ride on trails with loose chunky rocks that often kick up and ding rims, how has durability been? My alum rims have always held up fine. They have silver marks as anodization is marred from rock hit, but no denting. Thinking about using some protection film like on carbon frame. Thoughts? Anyone have a rim that has taken some rock hits on sides?


Had my Nox Farlows for about 3 weeks now. I've got about 10 rides in so far and can't say enough about them. I ride lots of rocks and chunk as well as regular groomed trails. Based on my experience so far I would say you will love them and their durability.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

Just bought a new bike and decided to go with the Teocalli 27.5 wheels. Seemed like a good in between. 

What tire pressures has everyone been running on these? I know they are not supe-Ibis wide but it seems like they should be fine running somewhat low pressure. 1st set of carbon rims, have been babying them and would like to test the low pressure waters.

I am running about 20 PSI right now, I weigh 170 with gear...


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Dickbrown said:


> Just bought a new bike and decided to go with the Teocalli 27.5 wheels. Seemed like a good in between.
> 
> What tire pressures has everyone been running on these? I know they are not supe-Ibis wide but it seems like they should be fine running somewhat low pressure. 1st set of carbon rims, have been babying them and would like to test the low pressure waters.
> 
> I am running about 20 PSI right now, I weigh 170 with gear...


I'm 185, and run 20 rear and about 18-20 front depending on ride. I have the Farlow AM wheelset. I could definitely go lower if needed.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

I'm about 205 geared up, and I've been being pretty cautious with my new Farlows, but maybe I need to try lower after reading this. 

I've been running 23f, 26r with 2.3 Maxxis Minion DHF/DHR2 combo.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Dickbrown said:


> Just bought a new bike and decided to go with the Teocalli 27.5 wheels. Seemed like a good in between.
> 
> What tire pressures has everyone been running on these? I know they are not supe-Ibis wide but it seems like they should be fine running somewhat low pressure. 1st set of carbon rims, have been babying them and would like to test the low pressure waters.
> 
> I am running about 20 PSI right now, I weigh 170 with gear...


I think you're in the low pressure waters already.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

cnitram said:


> Loving these Farlow Wheels with I9 hubs. I did remove the decals for the stealth look though


So you take the stickers off your wheels and forks but leave the QC stickers on your disc rotors? Interesting.

Thread jack: How do you like the DB Air CS? on your Nomad?


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

Anyone get conti x-king or the new vittoria tnt tires to bead up on their Nox rims? no matter how much air i throw at them they struggle to seal. Even brought them to the LBS to see if they could do it with all of their gear and they couldnt get them to seal either. Seems the bead is too tight and the rim too deep and wide.

I have no issue with Specialized, bontrager or maxxis tires seating on these even with a floor pump.

btw, i have over 6000 miles on my nox wheels done up by Super Dave of speed dreams and these wheels are as true as they were the day i bought them.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Dang, u ride a lot? That's some miles. Good to hear tho since Dave did my wheels as well. 

Schwalbe Hans dampf and maxis on mine with no issues. But on the phone, Dave specifically mentioned MKs, but not other two u mentioned, as good with NOX rims. Which rim do u have? I'm guessing the originals with hooks given miles. 

.


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

attaboy said:


> Dang, u ride a lot? That's some miles. Good to hear tho since Dave did my wheels as well.
> 
> Schwalbe Hans dampf and maxis on mine with no issues. But on the phone, Dave specifically mentioned MKs, but not other two u mentioned, as good with NOX rims. Which rim do u have? I'm guessing the originals with hooks given miles.
> 
> .


so yeah probably the originals. Just wondering if there was any trick to getting them to seat. kind of limited with tire choices with maxxis ikons being the goto tire.


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

Daves done two sets of wheels for me, both bomb proof. 

Even fixed the I9 hub on one of them the same day a LBS screwed up the wheel by stripping the freehub for the cassette.


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Yep, have ikon on the rear. Mine are farlows. Might give Dave a call about his experience with those. He said he runs a set of original NOX rims.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

seandm said:


> Anyone get conti x-king or the new vittoria tnt tires to bead up on their Nox rims...........
> btw, i have over 6000 miles on my nox wheels done up by Super Dave of speed dreams and these wheels are as true as they were the day i bought them.


6000 miles with a tyre like an Ikon and considering an X-King? What are your trails like?


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> 6000 miles with a tyre like an Ikon and considering an X-King? What are your trails like?


Not the same tire, same wheelset. Been on about 10 different tires in that time. Just would like to be able to mount the vittoria barza or x-king that i have.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

I realise that I was just wondering what sort of trails you have that you run Ikons. How many miles per year do you average? I am averaging about 80 km per week (or was until I blew my knee up skiing) but most of that is Whistler Black and Double Black ie straight up and very tech down. eg: Micro Climate Mountain Bike Trail - Blackcomb, Whistler | Trailforks


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> I realise that I was just wondering what sort of trails you have that you run Ikons. How many miles per year do you average? I am averaging about 80 km per week (or was until I blew my knee up skiing) but most of that is Whistler Black and Double Black ie straight up and very tech down. eg: Micro Climate Mountain Bike Trail - Blackcomb, Whistler | Trailforks


Ikons front and back even. PHoenix area and almost 5k miles yearly for the last 2 years all on the same mtb.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

100 miles per week, that is some dedication. Nice effort. Never ridden near Phoenix. Ikons, I am guessing that your trails are pretty buffed and fast mostly?


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> 100 miles per week, that is some dedication. Nice effort. Never ridden near Phoenix. Ikons, I am guessing that your trails are pretty buffed and fast mostly?


correct and like sand paper when you crash.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Well hopefully you can get those X-Kings mounted up, the Black Chilli rolls fast and sticks like a sticky thing so hopefully will help keep you from getting scuffed up.

Race King Protection BC 2.2" on my Jackal
Mountain King II 2.4" Protection BC on my Nomad 
Trail King 2.4" Protection BC on my V-10.
Have run MKII 2.4" front and X-King 2.2" rear in the past but it is a little sketchy for our steeps and rocks.

Been lurking here as a set of Nox Farlows on DT240S hubs has a destiny with my Nomad.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

Ikons are exceptionally good tires, though technically XC/Race tires, they handle chunk pretty well considering their low weight and tread profile. They also seem to be the go-to tire for guys winning the likes of AZT & CTR...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The new 29x2.35 Icon is much bigger than the 2.2. The side knobs are huge and the tire has great grip here on the East Coast. The tire is huge !!


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Looks a little like a cross between the Ignitor (got on okay with this but not sticky enough) and the Advantage (liked it alot, but again no soft compounds and no 650B versions).

Also looks a lot like my Mountain Kings.

Forgot that Maxxis developed a wider version so Jared Graves could destroy trail with it.


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## Maxis Gamez (Mar 27, 2014)

Any updates guys? How are you guys liking the rims?

Thanks!


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Maxis Gamez said:


> Any updates guys? How are you guys liking the rims?
> 
> Thanks!


Love em. No regrets!!!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yep. Nuff said.


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## jgusta (Oct 9, 2004)

Maxis Gamez said:


> Any updates guys? How are you guys liking the rims?
> 
> Thanks!


Holding up wonderfully with thin, bladed spokes with only two trues in past 7 months of hard, regular use. Cracked two other brand carbon rims of similar dimensions in only 3 months time on same bike, trails, tires prior to getting the NOX.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

LOVE mine. Will def try to get another set for my next build.


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## dreich88 (May 13, 2012)

Can anyone offer advice on the Skyline vs. Teocalli 29? I'm thinking of putting these on a Cannondale Scalpel for XC racing / trail riding in rocky central PA. 

I'm trying to understand why anyone would go with the Skyline over the Teocalli, considering there is only an 80g difference between the two as a set (40g each rim).

Would the Teocalli be too wide to run something like an Ikon 2.2? This is the only thing I can think of that would steer me towards the Skyline.

Any input is appreciated!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

40g per rim is actually pretty large margin in the bike world when you are talking about rotational weight. Consider that the extremes between our lightest XC rim and heaviest AM rim is only ~90g! For pure XC riders and racers, the Skyline is the perfect rim, it's strong and plenty wide for this type of riding. If you spend most of your time trail riding with an occasional race, then the Teo is made for you. The Teo is definitely not too wide to run a 2.2. For most casual riders, the extra width of the Teo wins out, but because XC races are typically won on the climbs, rim weight (even 40g per rim) is critical to those guys/gals.


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## dreich88 (May 13, 2012)

Gotcha, thanks! Considering the Teocalli is still way lighter than my current wheelset (Stan's Arch EX), I think I'm leaning towards towards them over the Skyline.

Any more input from others is appreciated!


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## dreich88 (May 13, 2012)

Here's another thing I just thought of: I only weigh 130lbs, so maybe I would be able to get away running the Skylines without giving up much in the way of stiffness? Too many choices! lol


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Another cool option is use both, use the lighter skyline on the rear for better feel at the pedals and the wider Teocalli up front to improve stick in the corners. I have a set like that in the queue for a customer who races some but didn't want to go totally weight-weenie.

Also, going to a 28H Teocalli vs a 32H Skyline only adds ~32g (for the 29er at least), so that's a great option for lighter riders who want the wider rim.

Also, totally unrelated, here's a cool set I laced up this weekend. Custom decals to match the customers Rocky Mountain Altitude Rally Edition.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Nox Composites have fairly firm views as to why they build their wheels with 32 holes. @dgaddis1 What are your views on surviving a trail with a broken spoke on a 28 spoke wheel?


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> Nox Composites have fairly firm views as to why they build their wheels with 32 holes. @dgaddis1 What are your views on surviving a trail with a broken spoke on a 28 spoke wheel?


Well, there's always a bit of a gamble to play when you start cutting spoke count, but you could say the same about using *only* 32 spokes instead of 36, or 40, or 48. 32 is the new normal after all. Whether or not you get some rub with a broken spoke has a lot to do with your own personal set up too. On my personal bike (an ~09 Jabberwocky) my current wheel/tire/gear combo barely fits (32x19 which lets me nearly slam the axle forward in the dropouts, Nox XCR rims, 2.2" Ikons). I'm pretty sure even with 32 spoke wheels if I broke a spoke I'd get some rub. But, hey, what are you gonna do. I don't worry about it.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

Just swapped my rear tire on my 27.5 Teo's. These are my first hookless rims. Are their tricks to getting the tire to seat up. Could not do it via floor pump, using Spec tires, which I have always been able to seat with a floor pump. Couldnt get it on at the gas station either. Finally got it done at the LBS where it took the mechanic and me to get it on. 

I guess you just need a compressor... and 4 hands.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Dickbrown said:


> Just swapped my rear tire on my 27.5 Teo's. These are my first hookless rims. Are their tricks to getting the tire to seat up. Could not do it via floor pump, using Spec tires, which I have always been able to seat with a floor pump. Couldnt get it on at the gas station either. Finally got it done at the LBS where it took the mechanic and me to get it on.
> 
> I guess you just need a compressor... and 4 hands.


Tubeless, while completely worth the hassle, is a major hassle to set up sometimes. Here's one tip for stubborn tires: set them up with a tube, let them sit for a few hours. Deflate the tube, unhook only one bead, and remove the tube, now re-inflate the tire.

Remove the valve core.

The problem is you can get three of the same tire, and they'll all act differently. I've had Specialized tires that set up super easily, and some that didn't. I've had Maxxis tires that were the same way. One night I mounted up one TR Maxxis tire and one non-TR, the non-TR inflated immediately, the TR was a major pain. Other TR Maxxis tires set up without an issue. WTB's TCS tires are known to not work with Stan's rims, they're too tight and most folks can't even get them onto the rim. A local customer of mine set up a set on his and didn't even need a tire lever to mount them, he said it was the easiest tubeless experience he's ever had.

In other words: YMMV.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks, I am going to try the valve core trick next time. That's the one thing I haven't ever thought of doing!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's the way I do it every time, take core out use my air gun with rubber tip. Burst of air works perfect!!


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## Maxis Gamez (Mar 27, 2014)

Nice update guys. Anyone else? Looks like positive reviews!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

attaboy said:


> Yep, have ikon on the rear. Mine are farlows. Might give Dave a call about his experience with those. He said he runs a set of original NOX rims.


I run the original NOX wheels as well. I normally run Schwalbe tires and they seat up just fine. However, the Rock Razors were a very poor performer on the slickrock in St George so I bought a Conti Mountain King 2.4 and the shop had holy hell getting that tire to mount up. Took 'em forever.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

I know there aren't many guys left on 26 in wheels but in chance NOX will be producing a 26 in all mountain wheel anytime soon?


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

bridgestone14 said:


> I know there aren't many guys left on 26 in wheels but in chance NOX will be producing a 26 in all mountain wheel anytime soon?


They just posted a sneak peak of new rim on their facebook page, so maybe... or maybe not?


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## jrj1011 (Oct 20, 2010)

Dickbrown said:


> Thanks, I am going to try the valve core trick next time. That's the one thing I haven't ever thought of doing!


Hey, just another trick I have used with tough to seal tires: I will throw a tube in and inflate it for a few minutes or overnight. This has solved tough to seat tires 100% for me. I have been able to get the tire to inflate with a floor pump every time afterward using this method. I tend to switch tires and wheels often so this has been a great time saver.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

jrj1011 said:


> Hey, just another trick I have used with tough to seal tires: I will throw a tube in and inflate it for a few minutes or overnight. This has solved tough to seat tires 100% for me. I have been able to get the tire to inflate with a floor pump every time afterward using this method. I tend to switch tires and wheels often so this has been a great time saver.


Hey thanks, I have done that but never over night. Will def try that out on the next new tire.


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## Maxis Gamez (Mar 27, 2014)

Dickbrown said:


> They just posted a sneak peak of new rim on their facebook page, so maybe... or maybe not?


This is for road bikes.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm debating between the teo and the farlow and would love to hear suggestions. I'm ~180lbs without riding gear. The wheels will go on an SC bronson. Currently running a magic mary front and the new nobby nic rear (2.35). I ride in and around santa cruz, CA on a mixture of rooty steeper trails and a few smoother flowier trails. Typical rides have 2-5ft drops.

FWIW, I've run 26'' mavic 819 and a stans arch ex and had them hold up pretty well. They're battle scarred but still going. Currently running some wtb ST i25 rims until I settle on the nox rims.

I like the weight of the teocalli... Not sure if strength is an issue for how and where I ride. 25mm IW is the widest rim I've ridden so I just don't know to what extent the width of the farlow will improve anything.


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Farlow no question. I'm running mine on a Nomad 27.5


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

Because of the strength, width, both?


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Yes. The Farlows are awesome on the Nomad. I have 2 buddies that ride Bronson's and they too are getting Farlows. I'm sure you could get away with the Teo but IMO the Farlow is better suited for AM


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

Cool, I've been leaning farlow.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

saucerboy said:


> I'm debating between the teo and the farlow and would love to hear suggestions. I'm ~180lbs without riding gear. The wheels will go on an SC bronson. Currently running a magic mary front and the new nobby nic rear (2.35). I ride in and around santa cruz, CA on a mixture of rooty steeper trails and a few smoother flowier trails. Typical rides have 2-5ft drops.
> 
> FWIW, I've run 26'' mavic 819 and a stans arch ex and had them hold up pretty well. They're battle scarred but still going. Currently running some wtb ST i25 rims until I settle on the nox rims.
> 
> I like the weight of the teocalli... Not sure if strength is an issue for how and where I ride. 25mm IW is the widest rim I've ridden so I just don't know to what extent the width of the farlow will improve anything.


There is only about a 30 gram difference between the 2 rims. If you are wanting to try a wider rim without going crazy-wide, the Farley is a great choice. That being said, I am riding a pair of 25mm internal width carbon hoops and am really digging the profile the rims give the tires.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

saucerboy said:


> I'm debating between the teo and the farlow and would love to hear suggestions. I'm ~180lbs without riding gear. The wheels will go on an SC bronson. Currently running a magic mary front and the new nobby nic rear (2.35). I ride in and around santa cruz, CA on a mixture of rooty steeper trails and a few smoother flowier trails. Typical rides have 2-5ft drops.
> 
> FWIW, I've run 26'' mavic 819 and a stans arch ex and had them hold up pretty well. They're battle scarred but still going. Currently running some wtb ST i25 rims until I settle on the nox rims.
> 
> I like the weight of the teocalli... Not sure if strength is an issue for how and where I ride. 25mm IW is the widest rim I've ridden so I just don't know to what extent the width of the farlow will improve anything.


To me, Bronson = Farlow. Just my opinion though, and I ride a tallboy with XCR-29's, so take it for what it's worth.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

dustyduke22 said:


> There is only about a 30 gram difference between the 2 rims. If you are wanting to try a wider rim without going crazy-wide, the Farley is a great choice. That being said, I am riding a pair of 25mm internal width carbon hoops and am really digging the profile the rims give the tires.


Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I see a 70g/rim difference. 350 vs 420?


ACree said:


> To me, Bronson = Farlow. Just my opinion though, and I ride a tallboy with XCR-29's, so take it for what it's worth.


I can see that. I have a buddy riding farlows on a mach 6 and he has good things to say.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

saucerboy said:


> I'm debating between the teo and the farlow and would love to hear suggestions. I'm ~180lbs without riding gear. The wheels will go on an SC bronson. Currently running a magic mary front and the new nobby nic rear (2.35). I ride in and around santa cruz, CA on a mixture of rooty steeper trails and a few smoother flowier trails. Typical rides have 2-5ft drops.
> 
> FWIW, I've run 26'' mavic 819 and a stans arch ex and had them hold up pretty well. They're battle scarred but still going. Currently running some wtb ST i25 rims until I settle on the nox rims.
> 
> I like the weight of the teocalli... Not sure if strength is an issue for how and where I ride. 25mm IW is the widest rim I've ridden so I just don't know to what extent the width of the farlow will improve anything.


The Teos are already going to be far stronger than the ArchExs and the WTB rims that you haven't had any problem with. Bronson=Trailbike=Teo. If you were doing Enduro courses on a Nomad regularly, then you could maybe benefit from the Farlow. The riding you've described seems Teo. Are there really 5ft drops your hitting? Like if you stand by the drop it's up to your shoulders? Not doubting you personally, I just always wonder when I hear people tossing out numbers like 5ft drops. They seem pretty rare to me, except at Whistler. Here and there if you look for them, but not typically on most trails.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

DLd said:


> The Teos are already going to be far stronger than the ArchExs and the WTB rims that you haven't had any problem with. Bronson=Trailbike=Teo. If you were doing Enduro courses on a Nomad regularly, then you could maybe benefit from the Farlow. The riding you've described seems Teo. Are there really 5ft drops your hitting? Like if you stand by the drop it's up to your shoulders? Not doubting you personally, I just always wonder when I hear people tossing out numbers like 5ft drops. They seem pretty rare to me, except at Whistler. Here and there if you look for them, but not typically on most trails.


You questioning me??!!  Totally a fair question. Plenty of times I've been convinced something was a certain size only to stand next to it find out it wasn't at all. There are a few features around that are shoulder high from takeoff to landing though (even if the rock/log/thing itself isn't shoulder high).

Yep, that's what had me wondering about the teocalli. They're likely stronger than the rims I've already been riding without much issue (occasional spoke replacement and truing).

It's not particularly gnarly as far as enduro goes but one of our riding spots hosts and enduro race. I'm also not saying I'm particularly fast but I can't imagine I'm riding much slower without a number on the front of my bike than I'd ride with one. I'd be mediocre either way.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

saucerboy said:


> You questioning me??!!  Totally a fair question. Plenty of times I've been convinced something was a certain size only to stand next to it find out it wasn't at all. There are a few features around that are shoulder high from takeoff to landing though (even if the rock/log/thing itself isn't shoulder high).
> 
> Yep, that's what had me wondering about the teocalli. They're likely stronger than the rims I've already been riding without much issue (occasional spoke replacement and truing).
> 
> It's not particularly gnarly as far as enduro goes but one of our riding spots hosts and enduro race. I'm also not saying I'm particularly fast but I can't imagine I'm riding much slower without a number on the front of my bike than I'd ride with one. I'd be mediocre either way.


Ha, yeah, I hear that and I always wonder, because if a drop is up to my shoulders, I'm probably not riding it, unless I'm on a full downhill bike at Whistler and I've been building up to it.... I guess some drops I hit fast enough and land far enough downhill that maybe they'd be five feet, but I never stop to check, so I'm curious what people mean when they say that...

Anyway, I suspect that even the Skylines would be stiffer than ArchEXs, so I don't think the Teos would be an issue.


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## Scott275 (Feb 19, 2015)

Very non-technical poster here, what does 'Hookless' mean, is that opposite of thru axel? Or can u have a hookless thru axel? You can tell i just drop my bike off for tune ups. 

Also, i am all about flat surfaces...road, fire roads, grass etc. I just want a tad bit of meat on my tires for the occasional mild offroad but other than that i'd like tires that maximize speed & climbing. Any suggestions for tires for my preferences to go with a set of Skylines? Thanks


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## scolli (Nov 23, 2009)

This may be a stupid question....But, since the asymmetric spoke holes on the NOX rims are only offset by ~2.5mm, would it not be possible to achieve the same benefit by just dishing a standard rim with centered holes slightly off center to achieve the same effect (provided there is enough clearance within the chain stays)?

BTW: Just checked the dish on my current rear wheel and it is slightly off center (a little more than 1mm). I would have never known this without actually measuring it.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Yes you could do that, however then your rear wheel would no longer be in line with your front wheel, and you are moving both sets of spoke holes, not just the ones you want to offset. 
Scott275, I am going to assume that was a serious question.  Hookless means there is no bead hook on the rim, like a car rim. as for tires look at Schwalbe's rocket ron and racing ralph. I am not saying you need to buy these tires, just that they are representative of the tread pattern you are looking for.


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## scolli (Nov 23, 2009)

bridgestone14 said:


> Yes you could do that, however then your rear wheel would no longer be in line with your front wheel, and you are moving both sets of spoke holes, not just the ones you want to offset.
> Scott275, I am going to assume that was a serious question.  Hookless means there is no bead hook on the rim, like a car rim. as for tires look at Schwalbe's rocket ron and racing ralph. I am not saying you need to buy these tires, just that they are representative of the tread pattern you are looking for.


Yes, but NOX has offset both sets of spoke holes on their rims. As far as alignment, what I was attempting to point out is that when I checked the dish on one of my wheels it is off by a mm or so and I can't say I ever noticed it riding.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

scolli said:


> This may be a stupid question....But, since the asymmetric spoke holes on the NOX rims are only offset by ~2.5mm, would it not be possible to achieve the same benefit by just dishing a standard rim with centered holes slightly off center to achieve the same effect (provided there is enough clearance within the chain stays)?


You might be onto something. You could offset both wheels by 2.5 mm to keep the front & rear aligned with respect to each other.


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## scolli (Nov 23, 2009)

DennisF said:


> You might be onto something. You could offset both wheels by 2.5 mm to keep the front & rear aligned with respect to each other.


But, I think the front would have to be dished in the opposite direction. In either case, I do not think I would notice, while riding, that the wheels were not aligned.

Obiously, I have to much time on my hands to be fretting over 2.5mm! :madman:


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

I believe that the offset advantage is that, since a normal rear is already significantly dished by having different tensions on non-drive vs drive side spokes, the angle of asymmetrical rim allows you to achieve same dish with less differential spoke tension between both sides of the wheel = stronger wheel.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

scolli said:


> But, I think the front would have to be dished in the opposite direction.


You're right -- I didn't think about the front rotor. I checked my Bonty Mustang wheels, and sure enough, the offsets in the front and back are opposite each other. I didn't realize that.

If the wheels were misaligned, I don't know if you would just end up going thru the woods slightly sideways, or if it would affect stability or handling. It seems it wouldn't matter much....

Attaboy, you hit the nail on the head with your explanation.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Well, I took the plunge and ordered a set: Teocalli 29 with I9 Torch hubs (blue), CX Ray spokes, blue spoke nipples and decals color matched to my frame.


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## scolli (Nov 23, 2009)

AGarcia said:


> Well, I took the plunge and ordered a set: Teocalli 29 with I9 Torch hubs (blue), CX Ray spokes, blue spoke nipples and decals color matched to my frame.


I'll be ordering mine today as well: Teocalli 29 / i9 torch. Did you order direct with NOX? Did they give you an estimated delivery date?


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

scolli said:


> I'll be ordering mine today as well: Teocalli 29 / i9 torch. Did you order direct with NOX? Did they give you an estimated delivery date?


I ordered mine direct from the NOX website. I didn't get an response on delivery dates, but I noticed somewhere on the website calls out a 1-2 weeks for building and shipping. Seems reasonable to me as they are hand built.


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## cnitram (May 16, 2012)

Check out ColoradoCyclist.com too. Build your Nox wheelset up how you want it


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The project 321 hubs are better than i9, better bearing design better end caps and better ano!


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

how is 2x lacing holding up?


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## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

This is probably a generic question for hookless rims but since I noticed it with my Nox wheelset I thought I'd ask here:

Will tubeless rated tires "lock" into hookless rims after the beads are seated, even when there's no air pressure inside?

I used to run UST rims with tubeless rated (but non UST) tires and after getting the beads seated (usually using an air compressor and hearing those popping sounds), the tires were pretty much "locked" into the hook of the rim, even with all of the air removed. From there, I'd insert my sealant through the valve and use a regular floor pump to inflate to normal riding pressure with no worry over sealant spewing out. With my Nox hookless rims, after I seat the beads, the tire eventually unseats as the tire deflates, making it potentially messy as I now have to insert sealant without the tire beads securely in place.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

burndtjamb said:


> This is probably a generic question for hookless rims but since I noticed it with my Nox wheelset I thought I'd ask here:
> 
> Will tubeless rated tires "lock" into hookless rims after the beads are seated, even when there's no air pressure inside?
> 
> I used to run UST rims with tubeless rated (but non UST) tires and after getting the beads seated (usually using an air compressor and hearing those popping sounds), the tires were pretty much "locked" into the hook of the rim, even with all of the air removed. From there, I'd insert my sealant through the valve and use a regular floor pump to inflate to normal riding pressure with no worry over sealant spewing out. With my Nox hookless rims, after I seat the beads, the tire eventually unseats as the tire deflates, making it potentially messy as I now have to insert sealant without the tire beads securely in place.


Get one side of the tire on, add sealant, get the other side on, inflate with the valve at the top not bottom. Done


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

As to whether the tire will stay in place or not while deflated...depends. Some tires will, some wont. Also depends on if it's a new or used tire, how long it's been on the bead shelf, etc.


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## burndtjamb (Oct 14, 2004)

dgaddis1 said:


> As to whether the tire will stay in place or not while deflated...depends. Some tires will, some wont. Also depends on if it's a new or used tire, how long it's been on the bead shelf, etc.


Good to know... thanks! For the record, I was mounting used tires that came off the UST wheelset and onto the Nox: Schwalbe Rocket Ron 29x2.25 Snakeskin on a Nox Teocalli and a Maxxis Ikon 29x2.2 (non EXO) TR on a Nox Skyline. The Maxxis was much looser fitting than the RoRo, and while seating the beads the Maxxis had a tendency to unseat a lot quicker than the RoRo did. Might be a function of Maxxis vs. Schwalbe beads, or using tires with reinforced sidewalls vs. not, or Teo vs. Skyline rim width, or all of the above!


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> Get one side of the tire on, add sealant, get the other side on, inflate with the valve at the top not bottom. Done


Heck of a lot more foolproof to just add sealant through the valvestem once the beads are seated. It's an extra step, but you avoid the chance of getting sealant in between the bead and the rim, so you get a better seal. Just dumping the sealant in and then trying to get the beads on works well about 70% of the time. It's the other 30% that sucks. Not worth the 5 minutes of time savings, imo.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

burndtjamb said:


> Good to know... thanks! For the record, I was mounting used tires that came off the UST wheelset and onto the Nox: Schwalbe Rocket Ron 29x2.25 Snakeskin on a Nox Teocalli and a Maxxis Ikon 29x2.2 (non EXO) TR on a Nox Skyline. The Maxxis was much looser fitting than the RoRo, and while seating the beads the Maxxis had a tendency to unseat a lot quicker than the RoRo did. Might be a function of Maxxis vs. Schwalbe beads, or using tires with reinforced sidewalls vs. not, or Teo vs. Skyline rim width, or all of the above!


I'd imagine some of the problem may have to do with the beads now being somewhat permanently deformed to the UST shape. I'd bet if they were new tires, and you followed the standard protocol of airing them up with tubes overnight before mounting them tubeless you wouldn't have any issues.


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## RyeBokeh (Feb 23, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Here are some pics of a 2.3 DHF mounted on a Farlow 275. That's actually an Ikon 2.35 on the rear in these pics. And for those interested, this is a good example of our custom decals - these are black fill, red stroke.
> 
> View attachment 941259


These are ideally what I'm looking to build up with my red Kings! Would I have to specify the pantone color for the red outline or would _black fill, red stroke_ be sufficient?


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

Now that almost all downhill bikes are going to 650b wheel sizes is there any plan to make a DH rim? 

A beefed up version of the Farlow would be perfect! 

Light-bicycle makes 2 All Mountain rims (650b) that have a DH option. They add an extra 50g of carbon which keeps the inside width the same but makes the outside thicker.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

RyeBokeh said:


> These are ideally what I'm looking to build up with my red Kings! Would I have to specify the pantone color for the red outline or would _black fill, red stroke_ be sufficient?


Yes, that's fine. Generally no need to get into Pantone colors unless you are trying to specifically match another color.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

When will the Hub Comparison Chart on your web site be fixed? I would like to understand the pros & cons of the various options.

Is DT Swiss the only choice for CenterLock?

Thanks!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

What is broken about the hub comparison chart? Nox Composites Hub Comparison | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels

Yes, DT is the only choice for Centerlock.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks for the link to the chart.

The chart is fine obviously. You have a bad link is all. I was trying to get to it from here:
Skyline 29 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels
The Hub Comparison Chart link takes you to /wheel_building


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

NoxComposites said:


> What is broken about the hub comparison chart? Nox Composites Hub Comparison | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels
> 
> Yes, DT is the only choice for Centerlock.


Can you do a color fill with a Yeti turquoise in the stealth decals?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We can do any color you want. Decals have an outline (stroke) and a fill color. You decide what you want for each and we'll make it custom for you. Yeti Turquoise is PMS 320C.

Thanks for wrong link info above, that's been fixed.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

NoxComposites said:


> What is broken about the hub comparison chart? Nox Composites Hub Comparison | Nox Composites Carbon MTB Rims and Wheels
> 
> Yes, DT is the only choice for Centerlock.


You might want to change some of the wording under King hubs. Changing the axles only requires allens.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

DennisF said:


> When will the Hub Comparison Chart on your web site be fixed? I would like to understand the pros & cons of the various options.
> 
> Is DT Swiss the only choice for CenterLock?
> 
> Thanks!


White industry's and Onyx Racing Hubs come in center lock, Onyx Hubs are incrediable with the sprag drive system, no noise and almost no drag!!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks dgw, let me be more accurate: DT are the only hubs we supply which offer centerlock. If you want to send in other CL hubs for a build, feel free!


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

NoxComposites said:


> Thanks dgw, let me be more accurate: DT are the only hubs we supply which offer centerlock. If you want to send in other CL hubs for a build, feel free!


Or contact an authorized dealer 

Here's a set I did recently. The polished White Industries hubs are sooooo freakin' nice looking.

There's also Shimano's XTR hubs in centerlock.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> White industry's and Onyx Racing Hubs come in center lock, Onyx Hubs are incrediable with the sprag drive system, no noise and almost no drag!!


While I admire the sprag drive, I can't understand the silence as a bonus. On multi-use trails, loud hubs are nice to help make people aware you're there.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

No sound=no drag we all want that. The only draw back is the weight of rear hub 461g but they say they last forever, I will soon find out. They just came out of power coat and are being built now. They also have life time trade-up program.

The White Industries hubs are really nice with great polish and low weight, the only draw back is POE=24. They are now working on a new drive system, I think they are a few months away. That may be a game changer there!!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> No sound=no drag we all want that. The only draw back is the weight of rear hub 461g but they say they last forever, I will soon find out. They just came out of power coat and are being built now. They also have life time trade-up program.


I am assuming you are talking about the Onyx hubs. I have been enjoying mine in Glowing Yellow. It is very impressive how long they spin for. I spun a set of i9's last night and there is really no comparison. Dont get me wrong, i9's are not 'draggy' by any means, but the Onyx hubs are just that much smoother. Plus, you can get them in any color you can think of.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> While I admire the sprag drive, I can't understand the silence as a bonus. On multi-use trails, loud hubs are nice to help make people aware you're there.


Loud hubs drive me nuts, with the sound of buzzing in my head all the time, especially when I want to be out in nature.

Much better for trail etiquette is a bell that can be heard at much greater distance, when it's best used to allow others ample time to react. Then a verbal hello or "passing on this side' as you get close.

I like CenterLock rotors as well. I chose XTR for my new Farlow rims, as my XT hubs did very well for a decade of hard use on my last bike and were silent. I just received the new XTR FH-M9010 hub last night. It seems to have a lot of noise compared to my XT, which are completely silent. But maybe that will get better once it's on the bike with a cassette and some wear and grease. I'll need to compare directly with some other new hubs to see how the noise compares, and maybe go to Onyx. I counted 36 clicks per rotation on the new XTR freehub, which is up from the 16 on my XT hub.

Incidentally, Evans has great prices on these XTR M9010 hubs that just came in stock: $99/$174 for the new XTR front/rear hubs. Weight is low too: 136/268 grams for F/R.


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Okay, my Nox Teocali 29/King Hubs are mounted on my new TallBoy LT. Tires are Maxxis High Roller 2s. Mounted w/ 2 scoops of Stans, didn't need levers to put them on, seated on the first try with a floor pump. First ride was great, though a bit muddy. It's hard to say if they are that much better than any other 29er wheel, as I haven't ridden any other 29er wheels.

However, I'm coming from a 26" bike, so one might expect moving from 26 to 29 that the bike might feel a little more sluggish when turning, or a bit less agile due to increased wheel weight and momentum. However, the fact that I didn't notice either of those things... well, I'm happy with my purchase!


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## NytrostarSS (Mar 6, 2006)

Just ordered a set of Skyline 275s last night for my new Giant XTC hardtail, going to have them built up by wheelbuilder here in So. Cal. I probably will end up going with DT 240 hubs but not sure yet, need to do some more reading up on hubs in general.

Thanks to everyone for their reviews up to this point, you really took the uncertainty out of the decision for me! I'll be sure to do the same once I get up and running.

NOX, was hoping to thrown an XL tshirt in the cart with my purchase but you are out of stock, any coming in soon?


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I got my TeoCalli 29's last week (built with i9 Torch Hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes). Got a chance to ride them a few nights ago on an 11 mile loop I've probably ridden 200 times. My first impressions are: (1.) My tires look WIDE! I'm running a Racing Ralph rear and a Nobby Nic front (each at 2.25) and they look HUGE! They definitely have more contact patch and I could feel the extra contact patch on the trail in low speed maneuvers and just a little extra grip at some of looser parts of the trail, which translated to a little more confidence on the downhill. (2.) Stiffer, more accurate placement of the front wheel in particular on line selection (as compared to my DT Swiss XR1501's). So I had to work just a tad less hard on the downhills and it gave me a little more confidence. (3.) Granted, I'm not sure this is due to me being happy on the wheels, or the wheels were actually helping; but I did some of my best segment times on a few climbing sections that I've had in about 3 years (when I was about 20 lbs lighter) without any extra effort as compared to the last time I rode the trail a few days earlier. The Teocalli wheelset is weight about 10g heavier than the XR1501's, so lighter carbon wheels that's not the reason. Maybe it's the stiffness or the extra traction from the wider tire profile?

Overall, I'm very happy with the wheels! NOX customer service has been very good, very responsive. The wheels came in two boxes, shipped very well and protected. I'd recommend these wheels to anyone.

Here's my ride with the wheels:


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

AGarcia said:


> I got my TeoCalli 29's last week (built with i9 Torch Hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes). Got a chance to ride them a few nights ago on an 11 mile loop I've probably ridden 200 times. My first impressions are: (1.) My tires look WIDE! I'm running a Racing Ralph rear and a Nobby Nic front (each at 2.25) and they look HUGE! They definitely have more contact patch and I could feel the extra contact patch on the trail in low speed maneuvers and just a little extra grip at some of looser parts of the trail, which translated to a little more confidence on the downhill. (2.) Stiffer, more accurate placement of the front wheel in particular on line selection (as compared to my DT Swiss XR1501's). So I had to work just a tad less hard on the downhills and it gave me a little more confidence. (3.) Granted, I'm not sure this is due to me being happy on the wheels, or the wheels were actually helping; but I did some of my best segment times on a few climbing sections that I've had in about 3 years (when I was about 20 lbs lighter) without any extra effort. The Teocalli wheelset is weight about 10g heavier than the XR1501's, so lighter carbon wheels that's not the reason. Maybe it's the stiffness or the extra traction from the wider tire profile?
> 
> Overall, I'm very happy with the wheels! NOX customer service has been very good, very responsive. The wheels came in two boxes, shipped very well and protected. I'd recommend these wheels to anyone.
> 
> Here's my ride with the wheels:


Great looking bike.

If you were to hop back on your alloy wheels, you would notice now much stiffer your carbon hoops are. I am on a 29er, and it was instantly noticeable even in the parking lot. On the trail, it was a night and day difference.

Happy trails! Its currently dumping snow in Utah right now........


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## krzyray (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm looking into getting the Skyline 29 wheels for use with endurance racing (12+ hour / 100+ mile events). With widths of 29mm external and 23mm internal, what size tires would you guys recommend for the front and the back?

I was looking at these tire choices/sizes:

Maxxis Ardent Race 29x2.20 up front 

Maxxis Ikon 29x2.35 up front 

Maxxis Ikon 29x2.20 in the back

Schwalbe Racing Ralph 29x2.25 or 29x2.35 up front

Schwalbe Racing Ralph 29x2.10 or 29x2.25 in the back


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

Ikon 2.20 rear/Ardent Race 2.20 front is an awesome combo. Both tires are really fast but the Ardent hangs on just a little but better in the corners than the Ikon which usually results in a rear end drift before the front will slide - helps keep your confidence in check so you don't get a little too rowdy and dump it. The Ikon 2.35 is also an excellent front tire to use with a 2.20 rear if you're looking for a little more bite in the front and don't mind a little more weight. The volume of the 2.35 is monstrous compared to the 2.20, and the tread spacing is a bit wider too which helps it get a little more bite in chunkier terrain.

The Racing Ralph's are great when they are new, but the treadwear is terrible and once the knobs start tearing they get pretty squirly.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

I am also running Skylines on a Jet 9 RDO with the Ikon 2.20/2.35 combo I mentioned above in several 100+ mile races this season. Seems to be the perfect balance of speed vs. traction for that type of event, and the Ikons (or any EXO casing Maxxis tire) have proven to be very durable while still being relatively light weight for their size.


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## krzyray (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks for great input NoCoMTB!

Yeah I'm definitely going to go with EXO protection, rather have the extra bit of weight than chance of getting a puncture. 

Maxxis web sites states:

Ardent Race
Hard pack, loose over hard, medium

Ikon
Hard pack, loose, loose over hard, medium

Interesting the Ikon is better for loose than the Ardent Race.

Yeah the Ikon 2.20/2.35 combo sounds really good, the weight is only a tad bit more than the Ardent Race and with the larger rim width from the Skylines, the tire will take more advantage since it's bigger vs the smaller tire size of the Ardent Race - even though it may have a little more of aggressive pattern.

Maxxis Ardent Race 29x2.20 3C/EXO/TR 720 grams

Maxxis Ikon 29x2.35 3C/EXO/TR 740 grams

Maxxis Ikon 29x2.20 3C/EXO/TR 640 grams


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

The Ardent is way better in the loose than the Ikon IME. 

Ever since the leaves came off the trees in the all I've been using:
Ardent 2.4" up front
Ikon 2.2" out back

I'm about to swap the Ardent out for a 2.35" Ikon.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

dgaddis - are you referring to the standard Ardent, or the Ardent race as krzyray was inquiring about? 

krzyray - I wasn't actually implying that the Ikon is better for loose than the Ardent Race across the board, rather that specifically the 2.35 is better than the 2.20, courtesy not only of it's huge volume but increased tread spacing as well. For what it's worth, that is also just my personal experience/opinion based on the terrain I've used the tire in, your mileage my vary. My Ikon 2.35 actually measures up right to 2.4 on the Skyline.


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## seandm (Mar 18, 2004)

NoCoMTB said:


> Ikon 2.20 rear/Ardent Race 2.20 front is an awesome combo. Both tires are really fast but the Ardent hangs on just a little but better in the corners than the Ikon which usually results in a rear end drift before the front will slide - helps keep your confidence in check so you don't get a little too rowdy and dump it. The Ikon 2.35 is also an excellent front tire to use with a 2.20 rear if you're looking for a little more bite in the front and don't mind a little more weight. The volume of the 2.35 is monstrous compared to the 2.20, and the tread spacing is a bit wider too which helps it get a little more bite in chunkier terrain.
> 
> The Racing Ralph's are great when they are new, but the treadwear is terrible and once the knobs start tearing they get pretty squirly.


Interesting, as i felt the ardent race are only good as a rear, and even then it was minimal vs the ikons. The trade off in weight vs grip between the regular ardent to the ardent race as a front tire was not worth it to me.

As a rear tire the ardent race are definitely grippier but they seem to have a higher rolling resistance than the ikons and sometimes you feel like you are dragging a boat anchor.


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## NoCoMTB (Nov 4, 2011)

seandm said:


> Interesting, as i felt the ardent race are only good as a rear, and even then it was minimal vs the ikons.


I think opinions will be all over the place on this and are going to be influenced by all sorts of variables. Terrain, rider style, skill/ability level, and individual needs/reasons for going with the likes of an Ikon vs. Ardent race all factor into it.

As you say you like to use an Ardent Race in the rear and a standard, non-'race' Ardent in the front I suspect accomplishes the same kind of feel as using an Ikon 2.20 rear with an Ikon 2.35 front or Ardent Race 2.20 front, just more on the grip end of the spectrum, vs the Ikon/Ardent Race (or Ikon 2.35) being a bit more on the speed (and less grip) end of the spectrum.


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## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

Is this a MAXXIS tires thread?


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## krzyray (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks everyone! - for the feedback on the tire types/sizes you are running on Nox Composites, it was very helpful


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

Let's get this back on track. 

Hey NOX !!!! ....... Send Dusty His Farlow order! :incazzato::incazzato:

I'm about ready to stroke out here with this new Yeti in the corner of my office that doesn't have any wheels.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Metamorphic said:


> Let's get this back on track.
> 
> Hey NOX !!!! ....... Send Dusty His Farlow order! :incazzato::incazzato:
> 
> I'm about ready to stroke out here with this new Yeti in the corner of my office that doesn't have any wheels.


That seriously made me laugh out loud!!!


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

'Have Nox Teocali's (29ers) on order and am really interested to see if my performance (Strava times) improve


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## dj1809 (Apr 5, 2012)

Any Nox owners with a long(er) term update? I am curious to see if they've continued to hold up and meet expectations.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

dj1809 said:


> Any Nox owners with a long(er) term update? I am curious to see if they've continued to hold up and meet expectations.


I've had mine for a year and a half or so with no problems, running them on a single speed. Zero problems, I haven't had to true them either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

dj1809 said:


> Any Nox owners with a long(er) term update? I am curious to see if they've continued to hold up and meet expectations.


18 months on original AM275s and going strong. Other than the frame itself, (SC 5010) it's the only thing I haven't changed on my bike from the start.


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## YogiKudo (May 12, 2013)

Ditto. Running AM 275s. 4,000 ugly miles later in BC and AZ chunk, perfect. Best of the best in my opinion. I've had them all. J


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

You guys are killing me. I'm headed out to put some more mileage on a beat 34 pound stumpjumper leaving behind this brand new SB5C that's waiting for its Farlows.


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## NytrostarSS (Mar 6, 2006)

Just got my new XTC Advanced hardtail set up with Skyline 27.5's. I'm a clyde at 208 lbs currently, Today would have been my first ride but we got rain. Will be getting my inaguaral ride on the entire bike this weekend sometime I expect!


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

Got my 27.5 Farlow rims last week and the I9 Torch Boost hubs this week. The rims came in just under the spec weight.


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## TheOrca (Oct 3, 2011)

Nox is selling some wheels laying around there shop for a discount...

https://www.facebook.com/NoxComposites?fref=ts


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## Maxis Gamez (Mar 27, 2014)

TheOrca said:


> Nox is selling some wheels laying around there shop for a discount...
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/NoxComposites?fref=ts


BTW, Brad confirmed with me that they ship their wheelsets with pretty much any color decals. Even Yeti turquoise.

There is a rumor that they only provide two colors. I spoke to him a few times and he was in shock to hear that. They just need a little guidance with their marketing department. Including updating their website...


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

I am swapping my Arch EX's for wider rims on my FS trail bike (RIP9) and can't decide on what I want yet. At first I was set on the wide Ibis rims but then the owner of my LBS suggested NOX Farlows which I am just now learning more about. I currently run Minions on both F/R at 2.5/2.35 widths respectively. Anyone have experience with extra wide rims like the Ibis 941s that have since gone with the not as wide but still wide Farlows? Coming off or the Arch's will the Farlows be a huge difference and all I need if I am "going wide?"


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yep, we've offered custom decals using Pantone color matching for quite a while now. Man, I wish we had a "marketing dept" 

The farlow rims are 29mm, the 941 is 35mm. We feel like 29mm is the ideal width for support and tire profile shape for most AM tires on the market. Going wider can work, but you do have to be aware of the tire shape so you don't mess up a smooth sideknob transition. I think you'll see more and more tires designed for wider rims in the near future.

Ibis rims are well made, and the wheels we've seen have been really well built, so while you can't go wrong, I'll just list the key differences. The major difference is the asymmetric offset which will give you a boost in wheel reliability and net lateral stiffness. Farlow 29 rims are about 1/4 lb lighter for a wheelset than the 941 rims. Nox rims are built with any hubs/spokes you want from us or your favorite wheel builder.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Thanks for the response. I am leaning towards NOX with DT 240s. So if/when a wide array of tires for wider rims do hit the market does NOX plan on offering a wider rim or is the weight/stiffness/durability sweet spot already been met?


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## JNG (Oct 4, 2011)

Trevor Ochmonek said:


> I am swapping my Arch EX's for wider rims on my FS trail bike (RIP9) and can't decide on what I want yet. At first I was set on the wide Ibis rims but then the owner of my LBS suggested NOX Farlows which I am just now learning more about. I currently run Minions on both F/R at 2.5/2.35 widths respectively. Anyone have experience with extra wide rims like the Ibis 941s that have since gone with the not as wide but still wide Farlows? Coming off or the Arch's will the Farlows be a huge difference and all I need if I am "going wide?"


I switched from Arch rims on my Norco Carbon Sight LE to NOX Teocalli 275 rims and P321 hubs. I just got back from Moab and rode the Whole Enchilada (Open from Kokopelli down - 3/4Chilada). I rode every drop all the way down didn't get off to walk any part and my rims/wheels worked great. Spokes are all still tight, wheels are true and didn't burp any air.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Got a couple of Teo 275's on the way, trying to decide between cx-ray's or Lasers...decisions, decisions.


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Any issues with tires blowing off the rim? Newly built Farlows on Kings and the rear has blown off the rim several times both while riding and once when the bike was leaned against a picnic table. Tires are Kenda Nevegal Pro, pressure is set at 28-30psi and running tubeless.

In all cases, BOOM, one side of the bead is off the rim. I can reseat the bead by hand and use a hand pump on the trail to reinflate. Is it possible that these tires just have too loose of a bead to use with a hookless bead rim?

BTW, love the wheels otherwise!

*****update*****

I took off the Kenda Nevegal pro that was blowing off and installed a WTB Vigilante. That tire grips like a boss and snapped on to to the rim like I'd expect. I'll update again as we get more miles.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Probably the tyres, maybe you have one with a faulty bead. Not got NOX rims but I have been running ENVEs for three years and it is almost never the rim. (I am watching this thread as I am planning some Farlows for my Nomad).


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

I'd say it's the tire. Are they tubeless ready or otherwise spec'd for tubeless. I had trouble with running nevegals tubeless when I first went to stans rims back in 2010.

Everyone's preferred setup different, but those pressures on the higher side, tho not more than max. So still believe it's the tire. Been running NOX since January and they are better than stans IMHO re tire fit.

Did recently have blowoff on a stans arch ex on another bike. Shop did tubeless conversion just before I went on ride. They left pressures too high - like 45lbs with 2.2 tire. The larger the tire, the lower the blowoff threshold. With Hookless rims like NOX, that threshold is even lower.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

I have Maxxis tires on my Farlows and no trouble so far. 

Was the Nevgal on another rim before this one...a Stan's rim perhaps? Stretching the bead seems to be a critical element in the Stan's system. 

I'd try a new tire from a different manufacturer.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Tubeless ready tires usually have stiffer, less flexible beads. The Nevegals with folding beads are known to be flimsy, even in comparison to non-tubeless ready tires. Not sure if the Pro version fixed this.


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## dkp4802 (Jun 12, 2014)

*Phoenix Area Farlow Vs Teo*

Planning a Nox purchase and looking for opinions from Phoenix area users. Stump Jumper FSR. Phoenix area trails (PMP,SM,Browns Ranch) 
175 geared up.


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## TheOrca (Oct 3, 2011)

Lovin the Farlows...


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## AdmChr (Oct 10, 2009)

Just put my order in for a set of Farlow 275 with DTswiss 240s hubs and custom decals. Customer service was top notch in answering any questions I had. Now the waiting game begins, ETA is about 3 weeks currently.


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## cburdick1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Ride report:

I am 6'3", 230 lbs riding weight. Wheels are on a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT. 

I had a set of 29" Teocalli's built up on my old King hubs at the beginning of the season. After 20+ rides of aggressive XC (small drops, rocks and roots, technical New England Riding) I have had no major issues with my wheelset. This includes riding light downhill at Burke Mountain while on a weekend trip to Kingdom Trails in Vermont. I am not light on my wheels, I ride fast and pick lines that are direct rather than smooth. I find that my wheels go where I want them to. Handling is precise. 

The only complaint I have is that both wheels (tires?) appear to have slow air leaks. I have to pump up my tires every few days, which is not something I had to do on any tubeless set in the past.

So, after 3 months of riding I have no complaints. as a big guy, I wondered if I should have gone with the Farlows. However, I haven't babied the Teocalis and they have held up really well. Nox builds good stuff.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

Sounds like you need a better sealant....or maybe just a refill.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

cb - I check my tires EVERY ride anyways as I am sure you do so if it's not a big leak then sounds ok. Perhaps it's the sealant as Meta hinted to but in general I notice a few psi drop when I don't touch my bike for a few days.


More importantly; my Farlow's are being built up on DT 240s with Sapim bladed spokes! Pulled the trigger and stoked to get out on them. I will report back after a ride or two.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Had the "original" non-hookless NOX wheels on my Tallboy and still have a set on my Pivot Mach 6. I've never had a single issue (can't say that for my ENVE wheels which both had issues). Now I'm getting ready to build another bike and already have a set of NOX Farlows set up and ready to go.

Had all of mine built up by Dave Thomas as Speed Dreams in Arizona.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

^ Good to hear!


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Dumb question as I'm tired and the sticker near the valve hole isn't making much sense.

Does the narrow side of the rim go brake side or drive side on the front wheel?
Rear wheel suggests that the narrow side of the rim is brake side.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

The rims are flipped depending on if your application is front or rear - that is probably the source of your confusion.

On the front, the "long" side will be on the side of the disc.

On the rear, the "long" side will be on the side of the freehub as shown in the drawing above. 

Hope that helps!


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

That seems like it goes a long ways towards clarification.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Yep front wheel is laced, still to be trued and dished. Took a while longer than normal as I'd bought hex head nipples copying your recommended build, then discovered that the Sapim hex nipple driver I'd also bought didn't fit through the rim to reach the nipples. Slightly annoying as I'd got prepped spokes and could barely hold them to use a normal spoke wrench as I couldn't use a screwdriver.

Guess I should have gone for the Park hex head driver, does it have a narrow enough head to fit the Nox rims?

edit: problem solved with a flat file and 30minutes of work on the Sapim hex driver.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*My Farlow tires a mistake?*

I just got an XL Santa Cruz Bronson, outfitted with Farlow 275 rims. Bike is fantastic, but with one issue of traction - a first for me.

I expected the wide Farlow rims, with 25 psi tubeless tires, to run much better than with 50 psi 26" wheels on my Heckler. Very surprisingly, NOT the case. First time I've ever had a problem with insufficient traction. Previously, I've only had issue with too much traction on Nevegals, that slowed me down ~2 MPH and kicked gravel all over me.

The Heckler with Mavic 321 rims (with thorn resistant tubes) has great traction at 50psi with
Front: Butcher 2.30" Grid 2bliss; Rear: Maxxis Ardent 2.25"

The Bronson with Farlow 275 rims (run tubeless) slides all over the trail in all conditions at 25psi with
Front: Continental MountainKing 2.40"; Rear: Maxxis Ardent 2.40"

Do I have the wrong pressure (at 230lbs), or do I need a different tire set?

I'd go with the Butcher again, but they only go up to 2.30" wide. Is this wide enough for the Farlow? Should I downsize the rear to 2.3" to match? Should I instead try the DHF(?) or other tires suggested?

What tires do people find to work for them on the Farlow rims?

Thanks

[*EDIT*: Just came back from the LBS, who helped with some tweaks, tunes, and fitting, and the traction has improved a lot. But it might still need improving. 
The pressure in these new tubeless tires was 30 psi initially on delivery. Two days later I found them very low and immeasurable on my pump (below 5 psi). Soft to the touch. I filled to what I thought was 25 psi, but the LBS just measured 28F/40R!! Could the tubeless goo be interfering with the pump gauge? They adjusted to 28F/30R (for my 230 lbs). They also lowered the F and R shock pressures 10 psi for more sag. In a few minute ride just now on some twisty creek side singletrack, I see a big improvement, no slipping at all now on this slower route. Still need to test on the tougher rocky/dusty trails where the slipping was causing serious issues.]


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## live2play (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm running Schwalbe Hans Dampf front and Nobby Nic rear both 2.35 at 25psi. Traction is incredible. Coming off 26" Maxxis High Rollers.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Hmmm, interesting BigL. I literally just got home from the LBS with my new Farlow's so I haven't tested them out on the trails yet but will tomorrow. I was running Minion DHFs on front and rear (2.5/2.3 respectively) with my Stans Arch wheels and am going to try the same combo out on my NOX Farlows since the tread was still good. These are heavy tires though and I got them for a trip to AZ earlier this year but loved them so much on the downs that I have lived with the weight penalty. I'm thinking I will stick with a minion front and get a lighter rear in the future (I live in So Cal so I climb a lot).

Anyways, super stoked on how the new wheels came out. Here they are, no trail modeling sessions yet so these are the only pics I have.

NOX Farlow 29
DT 240s Hubs
Sapim CX Ray Bladed spokes
DT Swiss Brass nipples
SRAM XD freehub


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

BigLarry said:


> I just got an XL Santa Cruz Bronson, outfitted with Farlow 275 rims. Bike is fantastic, but with one issue of traction - a first for me.
> 
> I expected the wide Farlow rims, with 25 psi tubeless tires, to run much better than with 50 psi 26" wheels on my Heckler. Very surprisingly, NOT the case. First time I've ever had a problem with insufficient traction. Previously, I've only had issue with too much traction on Nevegals, that slowed me down ~2 MPH and kicked gravel all over me.
> 
> ...


The Heckler has a steeper head angle and was probably easier to weight the front. Possibly a longer stem on the Heckler as well?

The Bronson has a slackers head tube angle and will require more of an effort to weight the front end. I don't think your wheels are the Issue here. New bikes take some getting use to


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> I just got an XL Santa Cruz Bronson, outfitted with Farlow 275 rims. Bike is fantastic, but with one issue of traction - a first for me.
> 
> I expected the wide Farlow rims, with 25 psi tubeless tires, to run much better than with 50 psi 26" wheels on my Heckler. Very surprisingly, NOT the case. First time I've ever had a problem with insufficient traction. Previously, I've only had issue with too much traction on Nevegals, that slowed me down ~2 MPH and kicked gravel all over me.
> 
> ...


I'm 225-230. I've got the 27.5 Farlows on a Yeti 5c, so a pretty similar setup. I started out with a 2.4 ardent and a 2.35 HighRollerII. I started out with pressures in the 25-30 range and found the bike to be very unmanagable. The bike was not "settled". It didn't want to hold a line. The tire slipped early on climbs. No sense of confidence in cornering.

I started out with the Ardent in the front and the HRII in the back. Switching them around helped with front end performance, but the back end was still not great.

Dropping pressures into the 20 to 23 range helped a lot. At this point I'm trying to figure out what the Ardent is good at....perhaps it's a clean rolling. But as far as I'm concerned its bad on the front and back on the back.

I moved the HRII to the the back and put a WTB 2.5 breakout on the front. With the Breakout at about 19 to 21 pounds and the HRII at 23-24 it was really starting to feel dialed in, but the HRII was not a great climbing tire. Still wanted to slip.

Just today I put a WTB Trail Boss 2.25 on the back. I haven't even ridden it yet so I can't report, but I think it will be positive.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

dustyduke22 said:


> The Heckler has a steeper head angle and was probably easier to weight the front. Possibly a longer stem on the Heckler as well?
> 
> The Bronson has a slackers head tube angle and will require more of an effort to weight the front end. I don't think your wheels are the Issue here. New bikes take some getting use to


Good point. Will try weighting the front more.


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## Maxis Gamez (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm not running NOX yet but I also have the Yeti SB5C and also found that running a lower PSI (compared to my 29er) works best. I'm 195 lbs and running 22/25 on Racing Ralphs.

On my 29er, I run 27/30.

Good luck!


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Got my first ride in on the Farlow 29's and loved them. Felt way better than my Stan's Arch EX's. I was skeptical about how much the benefit would be and if I would even notice much of a difference and I am glad that I was wrong. I crushed my climb and DH times on a local ride this morning. 

Pressures I ran were 25f and 28r.. When I got to my extended DH portion of the ride I let some air out and when I got home they were at 20f and 23r. The lower pressure felt nice and grippy. I weigh 205 without gear, BTW.

Will update my thoughts after some more rides.


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Finished building my Teo's for my Burner yesterday and took them out for a test today, 94 miles and 8000ft of climbing and they're still true so I can consider that a good build, I'll check them in the morning for tension.


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## Dbrookie (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm seriously considering picking up a pair of Nox rims but am torn between the Teo and farlow. I ride north eastern single track with some rocks and roots and am not hard on my rims (minimal jumps etc) and want a good balance between Weight and traction. I'm approx 165lbs fully suited. My current wheelset comes in at approx 1850 grams with 23mm ID and 28.5 OD and would love to lose some weight. Any thoughts from anyone that has ridden both (or not) would be appreciated. I'd hate to spend all that money and have things feel the same. Thanks


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

The fact that you mention weight a few times would make me recommend the Teocalli. 100g rotational weight is appx the difference between a Teo wheelset and Farlow, and that is something most people can feel. With light hubs and spokes, you should be able to shave significant weight off your current wheelset while going wider AND ending up with something stiffer too! You can easily push 1500g Teo 29 and 1450g Teo 27.5. 350-400g savings on a wheelset is a massive upgrade.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

BigLarry said:


> Do I have the wrong pressure (at 230lbs), or do I need a different tire set?
> 
> I'd go with the Butcher again, but they only go up to 2.30" wide. Is this wide enough for the Farlow? Should I downsize the rear to 2.3" to match? Should I instead try the DHF(?) or other tires suggested?


I'm 195 and run the Butcher 2.3 on the front and a 2.3 Ground Control on the back, both at 23 PSI and I've been very happy with them.


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## Dbrookie (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for the input. I ended going with the Teo's. Can't wait to get them! Thanks


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

*Skyline 29*

Absolutely OK.
Adds: rims look stellar!


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

just for fun (and another data point), my LBS put my new 27,5 Farlows on DT Swiss 350 (centerlock) wheels on the scale -- 1570g! very nice!

edit to add, that's with CX Rays and brass nips


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## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

Does anyone know if NOX offers any kind of discount for repeat customers? Bought the AM29s a long while back. Now looking to pickup so Farlow 275's!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

mattwright999 said:


> Does anyone know if NOX offers any kind of discount for repeat customers? Bought the AM29s a long while back. Now looking to pickup so Farlow 275's!


Your local dealer may discount slightly, or you could go with Derby, I have a friend who has both Farlow 29er and Derby 29er XC rims he say's the Derby track better and are stiffer in his opinion. My Derby's with red Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Lilly Nips and Onyx hubs not the lightest wheel build but the best.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I tried, no luck. Bought AM275s then the Skylines within 9 months. But they threw in shipping when I asked about repeat discount. I guess that's technically a discount.


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## whoodie (Apr 15, 2012)

MattMay said:


> I tried, no luck. Bought AM275s then the Skylines within 9 months. But they threw in shipping when I asked about repeat discount. I guess that's technically a discount.


Spending this kind of coin shipping should always be free.


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## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

MattMay said:


> I tried, no luck. Bought AM275s then the Skylines within 9 months. But they threw in shipping when I asked about repeat discount. I guess that's technically a discount.


Thats unfortunate, Back when I bought my first set it was around $1400 to have them built on on i9's. Now theyre quoting ~$1900 with shipping for the same thing. Creeping up on the cost on ENVE's. Thinking it may be worth a shot to try out Light bicycle this time around, Im sure quality has improved now over the years.. Derby is too wide


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## mattwright999 (Jun 25, 2014)

dgw7000 said:


> Your local dealer may discount slightly, or you could go with Derby, I have a friend who has both Farlow 29er and Derby 29er XC rims he say's the Derby track better and are stiffer in his opinion. My Derby's with red Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Lilly Nips and Onyx hubs not the lightest wheel build but the best.


How do you like the Onyx hub? Is it worth the extra 3/4 pound weight penalty? Is it weird riding around on a silent hub?

There can usually be alot of traffic on the trails Im on, The extra noise from the i9's helps when coming up behind someone


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## JammerNinerBoxx (Apr 7, 2012)

I have a set of king hubs that are just dying to get on some Nox Carbon. Here's my delema just ordered the New Evil following for my one and only bike. I would say 75% of my riding is gonna be fast flowing signal track here in the Carolina's. The other 25% is gonna be spent in pisgah or any other gnar across the USA. My concern is what am I giving up besides weight going with the Teo's instead of the Farlow's. Width=maybe more traction? Width=maybe more strength?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

JammerNinerBoxx said:


> I have a set of king hubs that are just dying to get on some Nox Carbon. Here's my delema just ordered the New Evil following for my one and only bike. I would say 75% of my riding is gonna be fast flowing signal track here in the Carolina's. The other 25% is gonna be spent in pisgah or any other gnar across the USA. My concern is what am I giving up besides weight going with the Teo's instead of the Farlow's. Width=maybe more traction? Width=maybe more strength?


For the Evil I would go with the Farlow, but it's a tough call. 35mm rims add so many benefits with lower pressure and better traction it's worth the the weight penalty. Will be no worries when riding on the Farlow's, enjoy the Following great bike!!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

mattwright999 said:


> How do you like the Onyx hub? Is it worth the extra 3/4 pound weight penalty? Is it weird riding around on a silent hub?
> 
> There can usually be alot of traffic on the trails Im on, The extra noise from the i9's helps when coming up behind someone


It may sound silly but on my last wheel set I considered the Onyx, but like you I have crowded trails.

MY CKs are loud hubs and I started paying attention on the trail, when coming up behind a hiker, just getting the hub to buzz coasting up behind them was normally enough for them to know a bike was coming and I didn't have to shout out, just say thanks as I passed.

Kind of like that.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

whoodie said:


> Spending this kind of coin shipping should always be free.


Good point, agree entirely. Especially because with my last shipment the box was damaged significantly. Luckily no harm to rims. I let Nox know, and asked if because this shipment was free they applied a different standard. You can guess the response.



mattwright999 said:


> Thats unfortunate, Back when I bought my first set it was around $1400 to have them built on on i9's. Now theyre quoting ~$1900 with shipping for the same thing. Creeping up on the cost on ENVE's. Thinking it may be worth a shot to try out Light bicycle this time around, Im sure quality has improved now over the years.. Derby is too wide


Yep. They've now surpassed the Specialized Rovals, which with comparable widths and weights and $1500-1800 price points any many different options including the 142+ become very attractive. Competition is a good thing.

I'm doing a lightweight xc 29er hardtail build, and with the discount my LBS gave me off Specialized list ($200!) I went that way instead of Nox this time.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The Onyx hubs are not just about the "NO Noise Thing". There is a level of refinement in the drive system that has to be experienced. The I9 can be felt and heard, the vibration from the pauls!! The Onyx have much better instant engagement, drag so low that when you stop peddling it feels like you accelerate. My back wheel spins forever, it's like butter!!

IT's worth the extra weight 441g 12x142 for rear center lock hub front 212g 15mm, the color Glowing Yellow is also more bling than any other hub that I have seen. If I want to go lighter hubs I would go with Project 321, better end caps, better bearings, better Ano and machining. I just sold my I9 Torch wheel set to a friend.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

MattMay said:


> Good point, agree entirely. Especially because with my last shipment the box was damaged significantly. Luckily no harm to rims. I let Nox know, and asked if because this shipment was free they applied a different standard. You can guess the response.
> 
> Yep. They've now surpassed the Specialized Rovals, which with comparable widths and weights and $1500-1800 price points any many different options including the 142+ become very attractive. Competition is a good thing.
> 
> I'm doing a lightweight xc 29er hardtail build, and with the discount my LBS gave me off Specialized list ($200!) I went that way instead of Nox this time.


Matt, not sure how long ago this was, but just wanted to let everyone know we changed over to double-wall cardboard quite a while back, and have had no shipping issues since (although we actually only had 2-3 shipping issues ever and of even those never involved a wheel/rim damaged in shipping other than an endcap was cosmetically scratched once). But hey, it's the interweb and gotta reel these rumors in!

As far as pricing, the $1900 for an I9 build is not accurate, an I9 build starts at $1638. Hope builds start at $1428. Needless to say, the hub choice and spoke choice makes a big difference in total cost. If you add up the prices of the components, you will see that we are doing all wheel builds for free under our current pricing and that our pricing should be consistent with any other wheel builder using our hoops. I hope you consider the time we spend on each wheel build and see the value in this. We don't do any mass production, every single wheel is built to order and we spend about 3 hours on each wheelset. Yes - this will keep our prices a little higher than big name companies cranking out wheels in more mass production settings, but this is how we roll.

You guys want free shipping on wheelsets??.. fair enough, I can do that! I'll activate coupon code MTBRFREESHIP for the next 25 orders.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> The Onyx hubs are not just about the "NO Noise Thing". There is a level of refinement in the drive system that has to be experienced. The I9 can be felt and heard, the vibration from the pauls!! The Onyx have much better instant engagement, drag so low that when you stop peddling it feels like you accelerate. My back wheel spins forever, it's like butter!!
> 
> IT's worth the extra weight 441g 12x142 for rear center lock hub front 212g 15mm, the color Glowing Yellow is also more bling than any other hub that I have seen. If I want to go lighter hubs I would go with Project 321, better end caps, better bearings, better Ano and machining. I just sold my I9 Torch wheel set to a friend.


I get all of that and is why I considered them, but it does factor into your decision when you ride crowed trails. I don't want to be coasting around a blind turn and surprise a hiker. They aren't surprised when I'm riding my CKs, unless they are wearing headphones and at that point it's their fault.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Slight deviation from your regularly scheduled programming, but I think this might be of interest to some of you who also like skinny tire bikes. Nox has a new road/cross/gravel rim called the A36D. Disc specific, wide, 36mm deep, tubeless, and with an offset spoke bed. I've got a short write up on my site here: In Depth: Nox Composites A36D Carbon Disc Road/CX Rims


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

NoxComposites said:


> As far as pricing, the $1900 for an I9 build is not accurate, an I9 build starts at $1638.


Well, here's what an i9 Skyline 29 w Sapim cx-ray spokes comes to on your site. Shipping adds 52.25. Total $1820.25. Don't know about tax.









If one wanted DT Swiss hubs, which is what the Spesh Roval Controls come with, the numbers go to $1029 for rear and $829 for front, total $1858. Add in the shipping and it's over $1910.

So in defense of MattWright999, his "~$1900" seems fair.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Don't forget that with custom builders you can tweak the components (round spokes instead of bladed, brass nipples, etc) and change the pricing, and there's more hub options, and hubs can greatly influence pricing. 

For example, centerlock DT Swiss 350 hubs build up to the same weight as the 6-bolt 240S hubs, use the exact same Star Ratchet freehub internals, and cost about $350 less!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

dgaddis1 said:


> For example, centerlock DT Swiss 350 hubs build up to the same weight as the 6-bolt 240S hubs...


I looked that up...and no, they don't. Besides, when comparing center lock and 6-bolt you must compare the combined weight of hubs, rotors, and fasteners. Center lock is better, 350 is cheaper, but there is a weight penalty both in the hubs alone and in the solution overall.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

craigsj said:


> I looked that up...and no, they don't. Besides, when comparing center lock and 6-bolt you must compare the combined weight of hubs, rotors, and fasteners. Center lock is better, 350 is cheaper, but there is a weight penalty both in the hubs alone and in the solution overall.


Agreed that CL is better, but a bit heavier overall (tho I'm not sure the actual difference...it's not enough for me to worry about). And okay, the hubs aren't _exactly_ the same weight, but they're certainly close, only 18g difference, close enough not to justify spending the extra several hundred dollars on 240S. Once you factor in variations in component claimed/theoretical weights vs actual real life weights, 18g is a wash.

DT 240S, 6-bolt, 15mm = 145g
DT 240S, 6-bolt, 142x12, Shimano = 240g
TOTAL: 385g

DT 350, CL, 15mm = 136g
DT 350, CL, 142x12, Shimano = 267g
TOTAL = 403g

The 350's are a great value for your dollar, the 240S I just don't get. For less money you can get hubs made in the US that come in a rainbow of colors to choose from and have significantly faster engagement. The 240S do have their fans though! Options are nice.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

dgaddis1 said:


> Agreed that CL is better, but a bit heavier overall (tho I'm not sure the actual difference...it's not enough for me to worry about). And okay, the hubs aren't _exactly_ the same weight, but they're certainly close, only 18g difference, close enough not to justify spending the extra several hundred dollars on 240S. Once you factor in variations in component claimed/theoretical weights vs actual real life weights, 18g is a wash.
> 
> DT 240S, 6-bolt, 15mm = 145g
> DT 240S, 6-bolt, 142x12, Shimano = 240g
> ...


yup, I researched this before pulling the trigger on my wheels as well. I couldn't find any verified/actual weights of CL 350s but took a chance on them. my Farlows w/ the CL 350s, CX Rays and brass nips built up to 1570g if I recall (I posted the exact weight earlier in this thread if you're curious). anyway that's about the same weight as 6 bolt 240s with the same components would build up to, and much less expensive as noted. you do get more flexibility to change axle standards with the 240s I believe, but that wasn't a big issue for me. I didn't weigh the CL lockrings compared to the 6 bolt hardware but there isn't much difference there, or in the rotors themselves.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

dgaddis1 said:


> DT 240S, 6-bolt, 15mm = 145g
> DT 240S, 6-bolt, 142x12, Shimano = 240g
> TOTAL: 385g
> 
> ...


Your thinking is flawed as the centerlock rotors weigh a helluva lot more than 6 bolt rotors (not to mention I'm not so sure your figures are correct) and you don't factor that in. Also the engagement is easily bumped up with 36 or 54 tooth star ratchets readily available. Finally, you missed the most important part of the 240 hubs - the best bearings in the industry, not Enduro junk like in your I9 bling. Bling doesn't get you far in my book.

Have FUN!

G MAN

PS - I've owned all 3 hubs.


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Anyone running Conti protection 2.4 tires on the NOX hoops? I want to get these wheels, but am locked in with a sweet Conti deal. Also, I'm 180 lbs ride a rigid carbon SS that weighs around 18 lbs. I'm trying to decide between the Teo and Skyline. I ride very rough technical trail and keep both tires on the ground if possible. I do a few endurance races a year and an occasional xc race. So, I'm not necessarily a racer boy, but like lightweight stuff. Your thoughts?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The Kappius XC rim slots right in between and is lightweight. Only seems to lacks Nox's "overwrap" feature which they claim increases durability, and costs 120 more. 29er only though. It might actually have an overwrap, and has a 3 year warranty.


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks, but I'm interested in the NOX hoops. Anyone have success with conti protection tires beading up?


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

I run Conti - not on Nox but I have never had them not seat up tubeless on Mavic, DT or ENVE in the past seven years. They are quality tyres and the protection models have good sidewalls. You will need to spread the Stans (or equivalent about) and it normally takes a bedding ride before the sidewalls completly seal and you stop losing 1-2 psi but after that they are bomber. I've been running tubeless on ENVE for at least four years and not one problem. Looking at Nox for myself which is why I am keeping an eye on this thread.


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## NytrostarSS (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi, I'm currently running Conti Trail Kings on my Nox Skyline 275's, 2.4 on front. I only have 2 rides on the tires but they setup easily enough. Minimum 2.5 oz. Of Stans is required. My bike is a Giant XTC Advanced which I use for trail riding, XC, and hopefully a few xc races soon. I will NOT be using these for racing as they are boat anchors...they hook up great though!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

When I contacted Nox, Brad steered me towards their Farlow for anything that wasn't pure XC racing or non-aggressive trail riding. They claimed that they have had virtually no failures on them, and that they're so confident in it that they don't see a need for a weight limit on it (the lighter rims have limits). He said that the tougher I needed the wheel, the higher the spoke count I should get. If you're set on Nox, just contact them, as they'll know best.

The Kappius rim looks so similar to Nox's older XCR that I suspect that Kappius might have gone through Nox or through the same factory as Nox. Their cutaway looks really solid.


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks guys. The protection version is heavier than the "race sport" and doesn't have the leaky sidewalls like the race sports. The base model conti tires are heavy as lead and don't grip as well as the race sport or protections which both have black chili tread compound. The protection x king is my go to tire for all conditions. I don't have any issues beading them up on stans arch ex, crest or spec r oval hoops. Just want to make sure I can run them on these hoops. Earlier posters in this thread seemed to have isues.


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## NytrostarSS (Mar 6, 2006)

I have the Black Chili Compound/ Protection version of the Conti Trail Kings. Set the bead with my compressor and no core in the valve stem, good to go!

I ride rough rocky trails on this wheelset, I don't do any jumping really just occasional 1-2 ft. fast roller type jumps that are smooth for the most part. I built these up with 240 hubs, and dt blade spokes. Bulletproof so far for my hardtail use. I weigh 200 lbs by the way(baby clyde).


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info Nytro.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Dude, your logic is all wrong. Saving some money on a set of tires shouldn't be the driving factor in picking a pair of $1500 wheels.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dgaddis1 said:


> Dude, your logic is all wrong. Saving some money on a set of tires shouldn't be the driving factor in picking a pair of $1500 wheels.


I totally agree!!! I also feel that Continental makes some of the worst tires in the MTB Arena. So many other good tires out there!!

Also the Kappius rims are a XC race rim, too light weight for hard technical everyday riding. NOX is a great company!! You won't go wrong. The best in my book is DERBY!!


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

One other thing to consider if building a dedicated SS rear wheel, as far as spoke bracing angles and spoke tension, you're better off with a non-offset rim. Use a Nox up front, and something else out back, and just pull the stickers and it'll all still look matchy matchy.

If you want to use the matching Nox rims w/a SS rear hub, make sure your builder knows which way to orient the offset. Many SS hubs do not have exactly the same flange spacing and size, and with some it's best to orient the offset towards the drive-side, opposite of how you would build a geared wheel rear. For example, with a King SS rear hub with the offset towards the NDS, the NDS tension would be the high side of the wheel with the driveside at about 82%. Flip the offset to the drive side, and now the drive side tension is highest with the NDS at about 89%. 

With a non-offset center drilled rim the NDS tension is highest, with the drive side at about 96%.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

dgaddis1 said:


> Dude, your logic is all wrong. Saving some money on a set of tires shouldn't be the driving factor in picking a pair of $1500 wheels.


I agree, you're buying an expensive rim to match your disposable tire that might only last a couple hundred miles? What next, buy a car to match your air freshener?

I have Conti Mountain King tires up front on my Nox Farlow rims. It beaded up with some work by the LBS (I was watching them, and they finally had to remove the valve stem with the air compressor). But the tire leaks like an open sieve. The traction of this Conti tire wasn't the best, but made worse by running below 10 psi as the tire was leaking that low from 30 psi, just overnight. I have to keep my rides below a few hours due to leakage. The LBS kept adding cups of orange glop daily until the tire finally got enough to start sealing. Now it only drops a few psi a day. Even at proper pressure, Conti Mountain King doesn't have the best traction, barely better than my Butcher tire at 50 psi with narrow rims. I can likely do much better with another tire. I'm switching to the DHFs soon.

[EDIT: I have Continental Mountain Kings, not Trail Kings; I also have Protection side walls.]


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Guys, first of all, thanks for your opinions. But, I wouldn't say I'm picking an expensive rim to go with my disposable tires as much as I would like to verify that people are indeed able to run the Conti tires tubeless on the rims that I desire. If it is possible, I will make it happen. And it sounds like it is possible. Tire preference is all in what you like. I have ran MANY different brands and types of tires. I like Maxxis Ikon and Ardent tires, I like Kenda Small Block 8 and Karma tires, I like Schwalbe Racing Ralph and Nobby Nic tires, I like Spec Renegades and I like Conti X-King Protection tires. All of those tires have worked very well for me. Some bead up easier than others, and I have great success with the X-king protection for holding air and taking abuse of sharp rocks. They outlast any other tire that I have tried in the area that I ride in. They also wear very well. One of my good buddies raced the divide last summer on a set of X-king protections, with no issues. Then handed them down to another friend who doesn't like to spend money on bike parts. That guy is still riding the same set of tires. Another thing is, my jersey and shorts are black and orange with the Continental Tire Logo and name on them so I sometimes get funny looks when people see my Ikon rear and Ardent front when I'm riding really dry trails.


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

dgaddis
As much as I would love a dedicated SS wheel set, I also have geared bikes that I will run this wheel set on, so will need to stick with the standard Chris King hub and not a SS specific. Thanks for the very knowledgeable info though. If I ever come up with the $$ to buy another set, I will do a SS specific build for the rear.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

If you were running Crests or Arch EX's before. I think you will find the Skylines to be stiffer than those. So if those were sufficient, I would see no need to go with the Teo's. Especially for endurance racing, if goal is to place rather than just finish. The weight difference adds up more over a longer race. More energy used, more calories needed, and you're always at a deficit already if you're going race pace burning >600 calories/hr and only able to take in ~250 calories/hr (give or take 50cal).

I'm sure you know that, if you've got Conti on your jersey. I guess another factor is do you ride those rough technical trails smoothly, or just slam into ****. If you're on an 18lb rigid carbon SS, I would hope the answer is smoothly, just for the sake of your wrists. I think the Skylines fit well with the parts I would expect on an 18lb rigid carbon SS. I know some people that go really fast, faster than me, as a top 5 Cat 1 racer (though I've pretty much transitioned to longer races now) on X-King Protections. A lot of people really over-tire their bikes for confidence, but it makes them feel sort of dead. Consider Graves won that last Big Mountain Enduro race with an Ikon in the rear. I thought it was funny when just a few days earlier I heard someone calling Ikons "road tires" that they took off their bike without even riding them... A lot of tires are a lot more capable than they look when run at the lower tubeless pressures.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

BigLarry said:


> I agree, you're buying an expensive rim to match your disposable tire that might only last a couple hundred miles? What next, buy a car to match your air freshener?
> 
> I have Conti Trail King tires up front on my Nox Farlow rims. It beaded up with some work by the LBS (I was watching them, and they finally had to remove the valve stem with the air compressor). But the tire leaks like an open sieve. The traction of this Conti tire wasn't the best, but made worse by running below 10 psi as the tire was leaking that low from 30 psi, just overnight. I have to keep my rides below a few hours due to leakage. The LBS kept adding cups of orange glop daily until the tire finally got enough to start sealing. Now it only drops a few psi a day. Even at proper pressure, Conti Trail King doesn't have the best traction, barely better than my Butcher tire at 50 psi with narrow rims. I can likely do much better with another tire. I'm switching to the DHFs soon.


Which sidewall is it? Race/RaceSport/Protection/Performance?


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks DLd. I have a set of Crests on Stans hubs and a set of Arch EXs on King hubs. I thought the Crests were great until I rode the Arches. Now, I'm assuming I will get the same result when I switch to the NOX hoops. I "try" to pick the smoothest line possible and for a relatively heavy rider, I do ride pretty lightly over the rough stuff. But the occasional sneaky root or rock will surprise me every now and then. I ride the 2.4 tires to give more volume, and I think the wider internal dims of the hoops will also help the tire fill out to it's potential. For ME, the X-kings have been stellar. I ran race kings for a bit (before X-kings) and they were good, but the x-kings are so much better. The mountain king and trail king tires feel slow to me, but have their place in super loamy conditions. For me, there is just no need for huge knobs. I generally run about 18psi in the front tire and 21psi in the rear, so traction is great with even the lower tread heights..


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> Your thinking is flawed as the centerlock rotors weigh a helluva lot more than 6 bolt rotors ....


That has not been my experience:

160mm Shimano SM-RT-51 6-bolt: 134g
160mm Ice-Tech SM-RT81 Centerlock: 122g
160mm Avid of some sort, Centerlock: 118g

The 6-bolt is one-piece steel, but the Centerlocks have aluminum spiders. The Ice-Tech looks massive, but is only marginally heavier than the Avid because the rotor is aluminum sandwiched between steel, as opposed to plain steel.

The collars weigh 7g (rear) and 9g (front). 6 screws and their keepers weigh 15g.


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## justaute (Dec 13, 2012)

DennisF said:


> That has not been my experience:
> 
> 160mm Shimano SM-RT-51 6-bolt: 134g
> 160mm Ice-Tech SM-RT81 Centerlock: 122g
> ...


Yup. And, generally speaking, centerlock hubs are lighter (e.g. DT Swiss 240 @ 218g vs 230g). When it comes to weight, it's really the combination of hub/rotor/bolts. In the end, when all the aforementioned elements are considered together, weight delta between the two types is subjectively de minimis.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I looked up the weight difference between centerlock and 6-bolt hubs:

DT Swiss 240s centerlock 126g front, 218 rear
DT Swiss 240s 6-bolt 145g front, 230g rear

That's a 31g savings. Add 12g for collars vs bolts, and 24g for rotors, we have 2 oz savings. Not like saving 2 oz off tires or rims, but it is rotating unsprung weight. Alone, not reason enough to go centerlock, but a nice bonus.

I accidentally ended up with a set of centerlocks on XT hubs laced to Crest rims I got used off eBay. I like them. I love the ease of removal -- I spend more time maintaining one bike than I do both of my cars. And, I believe the centerlock rotors are a little quieter. They still squeak sometimes, but seem less "musical" than the one-piece steel.

If I ever wanted to go with super-light Ashima rotors or something that is not available in CenterLock, adapters are 22 g each. There goes most of the weight savings, but I'd still have the quick-on-off convenience.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

To add fuel to your fire... DT centerlock hubs have a smaller outer spoke flange diameter so you have to use longer spokes = more weight you didn't account for and a flexier wheel (the hub itself is actually smaller, thus the reason you cannot convert centerlocks to 20mm TA whereas you can with the 6 bolt version). Not to mention centerlock retaining rings being notorious for coming loose. That is coming from several top notch wheel builders including Chad at Red Barn. Sometimes there's more to the story than meets the eye. There's no question the convenience of centerlocks is a great feature but weight savings isn't the real benefit when you compare apples to apples. The one big reason I would consider centerlocks is that Shimano is only making the new Ice-Tech RT99 XTR rotors in that configuration and I sure would like to have those on my steed (run 20% cooler than previous gen Ice-tech rotors!).

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Gman086 said:


> To add fuel to your fire... DT centerlock hubs have a smaller outer spoke hole diameter...


Ok, I didn't know that, although in retrospect it is obvious from the pictures. That changes things .

I'll rep u when I get to a real computer!


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

I recently switched to a conti protection (mking) on my Nox farlow. It was a PITA to seat the bead. Did it with a tube eventually, leaving it overnight. Later learned the technique of removing the valve core. It's solid and holds air with no leaks.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

attaboy said:


> I recently switched to a conti protection (mking) on my Nox farlow. It was a PITA to seat the bead. Did it with a tube eventually, leaving it overnight. Later learned the technique of removing the valve core. It's solid and holds air with no leaks.


Mounting a new tire with a tube overnight is standard practice for mounting any brand of tire tubeless. No wonder you were having trouble if you hadn't done that initially.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

DLd said:


> Mounting a new tire with a tube overnight is standard practice for mounting any brand of tire tubeless. No wonder you were having trouble if you hadn't done that initially.


Really, so I've been doing it wrong for the past twelve odd years I've been riding tubeless. I had better start mounting with a tube.:skep:


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Ronnie said:


> Really, so I've been doing it wrong for the past twelve odd years I've been riding tubeless. I had better start mounting with a tube.:skep:


You really just unfold a tire and try to mount it tubeless right away?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Tip for all: unpack, fully open and round out the tubeless tyres at least 24 hrs before you want to use them. Or to make life easier, unpack them when you bring them home so that way you never have to wait if you need to change a tyre. If you really feel like it you can hold them open with a tube.

Always remove the valve core so no residual air is affecting the movement of the tyre when you mount it. 

Push the first bead as far into the centre hollow/ dip as possible when mounting the second bead.

The bead lube made by Schwalbe or others is worth the $8 as far as I am concerned, use it for the last third of the second bead.

And if you don't work as a steel worker, motor mechanic or forester for a living then wear some old bike gloves or Mechanix gloves so you have good grip when you are wrestling that bad boy onto the rim.

But mainly pre-shape your tyres by unpacking them well before you need to mount them and remember to remove the valve core.

Happy trails.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

DLd said:


> You really just unfold a tire and try to mount it tubeless right away?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


It doesn't hurt to try, and it works more often than not with good rims and tires and plenty of compressed air.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

DLd said:


> You really just unfold a tire and try to mount it tubeless right away?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Yep, and never once had an issue. Never even heard of this overnight tube thing. Lack of air compressor maybe the issue with some folks? I don't get it..


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## Ronnie (Jan 17, 2004)

DLd said:


> You really just unfold a tire and try to mount it tubeless right away?


Yes but I'll qualify my statement. I'll only use a tyre designed to be used as tubeless (TLR, 2Bliss, TNT, UST etc.) on a rim designed to run tubeless. I've also never used a compressor. A good floor pump is fine and I don't find it necessary to remove the valve core. It's also important how the tyre is put on the rim. Start opposite from the valve on both sides making sure that the bead is fully in the center channel all the way round, except at the valve where you need to make sure the bead is on the sides of the base of the valve (not blocking air flow). The two beads will be next to each other and will hold the air in. The following video is for a Mavic UST but the same principle holds:


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

DLd said:


> You really just unfold a tire and try to mount it tubeless right away?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Me too and I **NEVER** have a problem with Specialized tires and rarely with a Schwalbe but for the life of me, I can't get a Conti Mountain King to set up tubeless to save my life (even tried the tube route) so it's off to the shop tomorrow. The last time I bought this tire, it took the mechanic at Over the Edge in Hurricane about 30 minutes to get it to seat properly and I presume those guys mount up a ton of tires.

However, that tire (Mtn King) had the best rear traction of any rear tire I've ever used. I was running it at 22 PSI and then got greedy and started running it at 18 PSI (I'm 205 geared up). I ended up pinching the entire sidewall when I slammed a flat rock at high speed in Fruita....and yes they were the Protection sidewalls. Love their traction but as far as longevity, I have the worst luck with Conti's.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Not sure what I am doing correctly that others aren't but I've never had an issue setting up any tires tubeless.. Including Conti (Mountain Kings), Schwalbe, Maxxis, Specialized... Ok, I will admit I did have a tire, can't remember which one, lose half it's air overnight after setting it up then I swished it around and gave it some air with success. 

Maybe I live in a tubeless ready climate zone? Lol


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## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

For the record, I've always just unfolded new tire and mounted with no issues. I always use tubeless ready tires (Maxxis, Schwalbe) and prior to my Farlows, always a stan's rim. I do appreciate the advice since having trouble with the MK. I guess I've just been lucky. I could tell the MK was tight when putting it on the rim. I like it as a rear tire.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Huh, that was the recommendation way back when tubeless came out, so I've always done it that way. Figured it was the norm. Maybe not overnight, but I'd toss a tube in, air it up and let it sit while I was doing something else on the bike. Usually able to keep one side seated too, so it's handy...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

I've had a lot luck with both procedures. I've had Maxxis rubber air right up from the packaging, and Spec rubber need the tube over night to snap into place. I've also learned from painful experience that when my XCXs have been giving me trouble airing up, new tape was just the ticket I needed.

As the OP, I'm still loving my Nox XCX rims. The build the Nox people did for me coming on 2 years now have been rock-solid for me in every situation I've put them in. They've been on two different bikes for me, an Epic and now a Banshee Phantom, and they've performed well on both platforms. With the trend of wider rims, if I could magically stretch them out, I would, but I have no complaints at all.

As a real bonus, I've love the CS I've gotten from the company... its been great to have actual people to talk to and get feedback from, no matter what--before and after sale. They were open and honest with me before buying about their products and company outlook as a new upstart, and I've been able to get help when needed. Without attempting to start/derail the tread much, this alone is worth the extra cash for me over Chinese rims/etc.


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2009)

I have my new wheels NOX with Xking !! still they have not been used !! I just arrived from my trip of more than 9000 kilometers from USA.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

Just wanted to give a shout out to Nox's CS. Broke a rim (being an idiot) and called them up. Told me to send it in, once it arrived they had it re-built and shipped out that day. Awesome! Also the crash replacement wasn't too hard on the wallet. 

Plus they sent me free stickers. Yes.


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## CDIDriver (Mar 27, 2007)

*Help me decide Teocalli or Farlow?*

I am building a new 29r FS bike, 120mm rear travel and 130mm front travel. My go to tires for the front tires are 2.35 Panaracer Rampage, Specialized Ground Control, Maxxis Ardent, rear tire is a 2.1 or 2.3 Ground Control predicated on the trail and conditions. I ride very aggressively in very rocky and chunky conditions in Phoenix, however, I rarely jump or huck off anything higher than 3 to 4 feet and I have never tweaked or taco-ed a rim in 25 years of mountain biking. Over the past 5-6 years I have been riding a set of 1st generation Arch's

I am pretty confident that I want to go forward with a set of NOX rims because of their design and CS, However I am not sure that I need the size and durability of the Farlow? Specifically, I am concerned about rock strikes on the rear rim and will it flatten out the tire too much if I run a 2.1 tire for an event where I need speed and efficiency. I am not a weight weenie and the weight of the Farlow will be lighter than anything I have ridden since moving to 29r bikes.

Any personal experiences and perspectives relating the Nox Farlow and Teocalli rims is greatly appreciated!


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

CDIDriver said:


> I am building a new 29r FS bike, 120mm rear travel and 130mm front travel. My go to tires for the front tires are 2.35 Panaracer Rampage, Specialized Ground Control, Maxxis Ardent, rear tire is a 2.1 or 2.3 Ground Control predicated on the trail and conditions. I ride very aggressively in very rocky and chunky conditions in Phoenix, however, I rarely jump or huck off anything higher than 3 to 4 feet and I have never tweaked or taco-ed a rim in 25 years of mountain biking. Over the past 5-6 years I have been riding a set of 1st generation Arch's
> 
> I am pretty confident that I want to go forward with a set of NOX rims because of their design and CS, However I am not sure that I need the size and durability of the Farlow? Specifically, I am concerned about rock strikes on the rear rim and will it flatten out the tire too much if I run a 2.1 tire for an event where I need speed and efficiency. I am not a weight weenie and the weight of the Farlow will be lighter than anything I have ridden since moving to 29r bikes.
> 
> Any personal experiences and perspectives relating the Nox Farlow and Teocalli rims is greatly appreciated!


Man, I'm in the same boat. I *want* the width of the Farlow but only need the width of the Teocalli, which is also lighter. Mine are going on a rigid SS, so somehow I think I need the width for cushion and oversize tires.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

DLd said:


> Which sidewall is it? Race/RaceSport/Protection/Performance?


I wanted to get back from travel before responding, to make absolutely sure of the tire. I'm running a 2.4" Continental Mountain King with Protection side walls (more detail in my 6/19/15 post #566). Even after several weeks of being set, the LBS still had to remove the valve and use an air compressor to reset the tire, after they broke the seal to add yet more orange glop to try and reduce the tremendous air leakage. I'm now down to less than 2 psi/day of leakage.

I've been trying different tire pressures to improve traction, as I now understand that pressure is critical with the wide tubeless tires. A lot of my problem may have been inadvertently running too low (~10 psi) due to high leakage rate. I now check before every ride, instead of once every week or two. I've increased to 30 psi and traction improved a lot but still not good enough. I almost washed out just now on some loose dirt with a very gentle turn that would have been nothing on my 26" wheels with Butcher tires at 50 psi. I fortunately recovered just before hitting the ground, but I felt like I was riding on slick ice. I'm going to try reducing the pressure down to the 26-28 psi range and try again, especially considering k2rider1964's post just above saying he was good with the Mountain King at 22 psi at his slightly lower weight.

The Ardent in back doesn't seem to have as big an issue with pressure or traction, but could be better.

Oddly, I never had a traction problem before with any tire on my 26" wheels and thorn proof tubes at ~50 psi. Maybe it's that I'm going a lot faster now on my new Bronson. (My times are about 30% faster with the new bike and losing weight.) Forces increase as the square of speed.

In response to dustyduke's post 569, I also adjusted the bar and stem to put a lot more weight on the bars, with the professional help of Lee McCormick. My stem is now 50 mm, whereas it was 90 mm on the Heckler, so that should help too. I have much more weight on the bar now than before with the Heckler. However, on DH, I do tend to get back a little and unweight the front slightly in order to allow the bike to more easily get over all the big rock gardens on this trail. But that's what I used to do with the Heckler as well.

I bought a DHF tire, but before swapping I want to first improve known effects like tire pressure and front handlebar weight.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

CDIDriver said:


> I am building a new 29r FS bike, 120mm rear travel and 130mm front travel. My go to tires for the front tires are 2.35 Panaracer Rampage, Specialized Ground Control, Maxxis Ardent, rear tire is a 2.1 or 2.3 Ground Control predicated on the trail and conditions. I ride very aggressively in very rocky and chunky conditions in Phoenix, however, I rarely jump or huck off anything higher than 3 to 4 feet and I have never tweaked or taco-ed a rim in 25 years of mountain biking. Over the past 5-6 years I have been riding a set of 1st generation Arch's
> 
> I am pretty confident that I want to go forward with a set of NOX rims because of their design and CS, However I am not sure that I need the size and durability of the Farlow? Specifically, I am concerned about rock strikes on the rear rim and will it flatten out the tire too much if I run a 2.1 tire for an event where I need speed and efficiency. I am not a weight weenie and the weight of the Farlow will be lighter than anything I have ridden since moving to 29r bikes.
> 
> Any personal experiences and perspectives relating the Nox Farlow and Teocalli rims is greatly appreciated!


If your goal is to run narrow light tires you really don't want to mess with the Farlow. I've got a 2.25 WTB Trail Boss mounted to the rear on my bike and there is really no side wall protection from the tread. On the up side of the tire its basically a straight line from the side wall to the outer most knob. I bet on the bottom, when weighted, there's a fair bit of overhang. Maybe I'll put the camera on remote and try to take a picture of that.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

If you're torn over the Farlow vs the Teocalli, do both! Use the lighter/narrower Teocalli on the rear (where you typically run a narrower tire), and the wider Farlow up front to help open up the front tire more. For a rigid SS this is a great compromise IMO. I've also done Skyline/Teocalli combos for customers before.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

How do the Nox Skyline's compare to the Specialized Roval SL's ? Not regarding internal width, but regarding ride quality. The Roval SL's have just enough give and the right amount of comfort. Doubting about my next wheelset.


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## CDIDriver (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks Metamorphic if you have an opportunity, a picture would be terrific. I really should go take a look at a set of Specialized Traverse SL Fatties mounted to tires at my local lbs as they are 30mm internal, 35mm external.

Thanks CDIDriver



Metamorphic said:


> If your goal is to run narrow light tires you really don't want to mess with the Farlow. I've got a 2.25 WTB Trail Boss mounted to the rear on my bike and there is really no side wall protection from the tread. On the up side of the tire its basically a straight line from the side wall to the outer most knob. I bet on the bottom, when weighted, there's a fair bit of overhang. Maybe I'll put the camera on remote and try to take a picture of that.


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## msimmons (Jun 14, 2007)

padrefan1982 said:


> As the OP, I'm still loving my Nox XCX rims. The build the Nox people did for me coming on 2 years now have been rock-solid for me in every situation I've put them in. They've been on two different bikes for me, an Epic and now a Banshee Phantom, and they've performed well on both platforms. With the trend of wider rims, if I could magically stretch them out, I would, but I have no complaints at all.
> 
> As a real bonus, I've love the CS I've gotten from the company... its been great to have actual people to talk to and get feedback from, no matter what--before and after sale. They were open and honest with me before buying about their products and company outlook as a new upstart, and I've been able to get help when needed. Without attempting to start/derail the tread much, this alone is worth the extra cash for me over Chinese rims/etc.


I was struggling with which carbon wheels to get and this thread really helped me decide on NOX. I went with the Skyline 275 w/ i9 hubs using Sapim CX-Ray spokes. My Ibis Mojo SL is converted to 27.5 so clearance is an issue and the Skyline width is perfect (and it doesn't hurt that they're freakin light too). Tires popped right on using a compressor and are holding air great using stans. Coming from Flow EX's I feel like an anchor has been removed!


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## tw0leftskis (Aug 10, 2011)

I built up my wheels for nimble 9 with teocalli front ans skyline rear. They're on dt Swiss 240s with dt Swiss race spokes. My bike is set up as single speed. Weight of wheelset was 1430gm with WTB valve stem., no tape and no free hub body. First ride I noticed a big difference is rotation weight esp. When mashing up hill. My bike before weighed 26.3lbs. Now it's 25.4lbs



Metamorphic said:


> If your goal is to run narrow light tires you really don't want to mess with the Farlow. I've got a 2.25 WTB Trail Boss mounted to the rear on my bike and there is really no side wall protection from the tread. On the up side of the tire its basically a straight line from the side wall to the outer most knob. I bet on the bottom, when weighted, there's a fair bit of overhang. Maybe I'll put the camera on remote and try to take a picture of that.


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

I ended up purchasing the Teo rims and laced them to my Chris King hubs with the Sapim CX ray spokes. They built up awesome. I have a few rides on them and am very happy with their performance. Such a stiff and stout build and less weight than my previous hoops. I mounted Conti X-king 2.4 protection tires tubeless. They beaded up effortlessly. I was worried after reading some old comments, but these would have been easy to bead up with a mediocre floor pump. I did not do the tube in the tire trick (but have done that in the past with some stubborn tires). Basically, I cut the zip tie that was keeping the tire folded tight in the retail packaging, popped it onto the rim, added 2 scoops of Stans, and inflated. One of, if not the easiest tubeless setups so far. And I've done more than 50.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

Dude where's your rear shock 
Nice bike set up :thumbsup:


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## NytrostarSS (Mar 6, 2006)

I just had to take advatage of the crash replacement warranty today and I couldn't be happier with the service I received from Kaysee at NOX. I emailed the photos of what happened to my Skyline hoop yesterday evening and they got back to me first thing this morning, it's in the mail now! Crazy freak incident, these have been solid wheels for me @ 205lbs on a hardtail. Good stuff!

Check out the damage:


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## MoE79 (Apr 2, 2008)

That is crazy! And it totally sucks that it took out a rim and tire. Glad they are hooking you up with a deal for the replacement.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

*Kitsuma 275*

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce our new Kitsuma rim, available now in 27.5". Built specifically for wide, high-volume tires (2.4"+) and aimed at trail, enduro, freeride and DH riders, the Nox Composite's Kitsuma is a whopping 36mm wide (42mm external) rim designed to exploit all that is good about the wide tire/rim movement while minimizing the bad (weight!).

As some of you know, we have been holdouts on the "extreme" widths of 30+mm for a while, stating that we were waiting for tires to hit the market that were designed to benefit from the additional width and work as a system to ensure side-knob transition and sidewall support our pro riders continually told us was lacking when running previous generation 2.25-2.35" tires on rims wider than 30mm. Now that more tire manufactures are on-board with the wide movement, we've feel like it's time to provide our own spin on a wider rim.

The Kitsuma is designed from the ground up with the ideal amount of asymmetric offset, wall thickness and bead profile needed for a rim this wide. Like all of Nox's mountain rims, the Kitsuma is an asymmetrical design, shown to improve spoke tension equality by 15% and provide a net lateral stiffness improvement of about 8% with most hubsets due to optimization of spoke bracing angles.

It is available in two layups, a trail layup at 460g and a DH layup that adds about 50g per rim (and $20). The dimensions of the rims are the same, but the DH layup increases internal wall thickness by about 1mm, which translates to a 20% improvement in structural strength.

The Kitsuma is available now in 27.5" diameter with 32 holes and blacked out decals (white coming soon, and custom decals and other drill counts are also available as special order). Nox Composites also runs a custom wheel shop out of our Knoxville, TN location and we can build wheels to your spec in as little as 1-2 weeks. For more info, post here, or check Kitsuma 27.5 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites or contact [email protected], 888-545-1282.

Thx!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)




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## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

@NOX, sweet rims. Would you run 27.5+ tires on this rim (2.8-3.0 wide)?


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Nice! Given how much I love my farlow 29's these new hoops will definitely be on the list for my next bike build (which will be 27.5).


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Most tires from 2.4-3.0 will work very well on the Kitsuma


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## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

Did I miss the price somewhere ?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

$499. Due to the additional amount of expensive prepreg material used in these rims we had to raise the cost $20 over our other rims.


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## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

I would have thought the increase would be more than that. Thank you for the info


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## montananate (Jan 21, 2009)

Will these be available in 29"?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, we are working on it


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Just ordered a set of Nox Skyline wheels with stealth decals (black with a grey outline). Will you be offering the blacked out decals like on the Kitsuma rims for the Skyline's as well, or can I get hold of a pair through Nox ?


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, we can always do blacked out as part of our custom decal program. We don't have fully blacked out Skyline decals on the shelf though.


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## Wadzy (Sep 18, 2015)

NoxComposites said:


> Yes, we can always do blacked out as part of our custom decal program. We don't have fully blacked out Skyline decals on the shelf though.


I'm seriously looking at ordering these for my Knolly Warden build. Was going to order the Farlows but love the width concept. When will custom Nox Red Decals be available and how much to have custom decals added per rim?

Thanks,

Wadzy
Deep Cove 
BC Canada


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## Wadzy (Sep 18, 2015)

Wadzy said:


> I'm seriously looking at ordering these for my Knolly Warden build. Was going to order the Farlows but love the width concept. When will custom Nox Red Decals be available and how much to have custom decals added per rim?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


P.S I looked on your website under custom decals. On this page you have a perfect example/picture of a (Grey outline) Red body decal. This is exactly what I'm looking for.  I see its $50.00 for a pair of decals. Are these a stock decal that's available or I'm assuming the later, just an example of what can be done (custom) Also, does not show they are available for the Kitsuma yet. Sorry to beat this one to death. Cheers~!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, that is an example of what can be done.

We have updated the website and they are available now for Kitsuma. Thanks!


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## Wadzy (Sep 18, 2015)

Thanks. I'll be ordering a pair of Kitsuma's w/ custom Nox decals. Red filler and grey outlining once I can figure out Hopes Evo Pro 2 RED Pantone PMS color code?

Tried emailing Hope but nothing back. Any idea of their Red color code? Would like to have the custom decals matching the hub color. Cheers~!


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Wadzy said:


> Thanks. I'll be ordering a pair of Kitsuma's w/ custom Nox decals. Red filler and grey outlining once I can figure out Hopes Evo Pro 2 RED Pantone PMS color code?
> 
> Tried emailing Hope but nothing back. Any idea of their Red color code? Would like to have the custom decals matching the hub color. Cheers~!


Well, the hubs are anodized, so there is no paint color code, and the color can vary a bit from one batch to another. Sooooo...you have to take a guess, and know it's not going to match 100%.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

That is correct. Pantone colors are for inks like are used in stickers/decals/paint/etc. You won't get a perfect match to an anodized color, however I would go with PMS 200 and it will look great.


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## dirtbiker (Jan 23, 2005)

Just ordered a set of Kitsuma/I9s for my Bronson V2 build, I can't wait to get them and try them out on the trails. These are my first set of NOX wheels, really looking forward to them.


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## Rock dude (May 24, 2007)

They are working out great on my Canfield Riot.


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## dirtbiker (Jan 23, 2005)

Rock dude said:


> They are working out great on my Canfield Riot.


They look great, whats your impression of them so far?


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

*Farlow 29s with CK hubs*

I think I'll throw up a pic of my bike with my recent Nox wheelset build. I built up the Farlow 29s with CK hubs (orange ano), along with Wheelsmith DB14 spokes and 16mm aluminum orange nipples. Weight with tape and stems was 830g front and 1030g rear. I run 2.2 Nevegals at 25 psi front/rear.

These bad boys are stiff!! They built up pretty darn easy too. I went with the same length spoke for both sides and the tensions were damn near the same for both drive-side and Non-DS. That is a very welcome change from my Stans Flows! I can't believe how much lighter these feel off jumps!


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## ski patroller (Sep 11, 2014)

I am interested in a set of wheels for my Tallboy LTC. The current wheels are Stans Arch EX's. I am relatively big guy at 220lbs. This season my tires have been 2.4 ardents, Thinking about changing to something lighter like Nobby Nics/Hans Dampf. My terrain is mixed trails in the mountains near McCall Idaho. 

I am also 52 now and recovering from a recent total knee replacement this spring, I tend to stay away from the bigger drop-offs that the younger guys take. But considering I moved from a walker in April to riding single track in May, I think I am doing ok. I just don't like to take many chances anymore. Just relatively smaller drop-offs and ledges that I can go pretty slowly over. I mostly ride the easier black trails and all of the blue trails around here. I raced competitively back in the 70's through the 90's on a track bike. The last couple of years I help out on providing first aid support from my bike when the races visit one of the local ski areas. 

I have been looking at either the Farlow or the Teocalli 32h. I would prefer to save the weight, but I also don't really need race light and fragile at this point. Hubs I am thinking DT 240 but am also researching the 321's.

Obviously the Farlow would be strong enough, but If I haven't destroyed the Arches then would the Teocalli rims be enough?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

ski patroller said:


> I am interested in a set of wheels for my Tallboy LTC. The current wheels are Stans Arch EX's. I am relatively big guy at 220lbs. This season my tires have been 2.4 ardents, Thinking about changing to something lighter like Nobby Nics/Hans Dampf. My terrain is mixed trails in the mountains near McCall Idaho.
> 
> I am also 52 now and recovering from a recent total knee replacement this spring, I tend to stay away from the bigger drop-offs that the younger guys take. But considering I moved from a walker in April to riding single track in May, I think I am doing ok. I just don't like to take many chances anymore. Just relatively smaller drop-offs and ledges that I can go pretty slowly over. I mostly ride the easier black trails and all of the blue trails around here. I raced competitively back in the 70's through the 90's on a track bike. The last couple of years I help out on providing first aid support from my bike when the races visit one of the local ski areas.
> 
> ...


I would save some weight and go Teocalli with Project 321 hubs, great combo. It may be my next set of hoops also!! 2 of my friends have the Teocalli and they race cat 1 XC. They both love them!! One is light at 155lbs and the other at 200lbs.


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## ScubaM (Apr 25, 2012)

ski patroller said:


> I am interested in a set of wheels for my Tallboy LTC. The current wheels are Stans Arch EX's. I am relatively big guy at 220lbs. This season my tires have been 2.4 ardents, Thinking about changing to something lighter like Nobby Nics/Hans Dampf. My terrain is mixed trails in the mountains near McCall Idaho.
> 
> I am also 52 now and recovering from a recent total knee replacement this spring, I tend to stay away from the bigger drop-offs that the younger guys take. But considering I moved from a walker in April to riding single track in May, I think I am doing ok. I just don't like to take many chances anymore. Just relatively smaller drop-offs and ledges that I can go pretty slowly over. I mostly ride the easier black trails and all of the blue trails around here. I raced competitively back in the 70's through the 90's on a track bike. The last couple of years I help out on providing first aid support from my bike when the races visit one of the local ski areas.
> 
> ...


I would go with the Teocalli also. We're about the same age and weight and riding style. The Teocalli I got a couple months ago came in just under 1500 grams with i9 hubs. Can really feel the difference coming off the 1850 gm Novatec rims I used to use. Very happy with them.


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## ski patroller (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback guys.


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## QQQ99999 (Apr 7, 2010)

I can't offer any firsthand advice as my Farlows are currently being built up but (as someone who agonized over Teo vs Farlow) if I were you I would definitely get the Teo (currently wondering if I shouldn't have done the same).


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## krzyray (Jan 23, 2004)

I understand the new Kitsuma 27.5's are built specifically for wide high-volume tires (2.4"+), but check out this posting where some is running 2.3 tires (I know different manufacturers differ on size slightly), but they are running Ibis 741 wheels with 35mm internal, pretty close to 36mm internal of the Kitsuma's, and the tire (with the blue towel around the fork) looks pretty evenly spread on the rim.

http://forums.mtbr.com/pivot-cycles/ibis-741-wheels-mach-6-a-963294.html

So do you go with 2.3 tires or 2.4+ tires for a wheel like Kitsuma?

BTW Maxxis just came out with 27.5x2.5 for the DHF and 27.5x2.4 for DHR II. Compared to the 2.3 they are around 100 grams heavier. So is there going to be additional grip to go with a 2.4+ tire and is it worth it to get the heavier tire? Based on the picture in the link it seems like the 2.3 has a good spread over the wheel. Thoughts?


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

Ok guys I was all set to buy a set of 650b Roval Fattie SL's for my SC Nomad 3 when I heard about Nox Composites... I will be keeping my Flow Ex's/Hope Hubs for bike park days and rougher terrain but I was looking for some serious weight weenie wheels for more xc/all mountain style riding. After reading through this forum the consensus seems to be 32 hole front/rear but given that I haven't seen much chatter about broken Fattie SL's which are 24/28's, what do you guys think of Farlow 275's with DT Swiss 240's, 28/28? I am probably in the range of 205lbs or less when all geared up.


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## wfl3 (Dec 30, 2003)

ski patroller said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys.


I was stuck in the Farlow/Teocalli decision loop as well. Also was running Arch EX's.

I ended up going with the Teo's and have been really happy with that decision (only been on them a month) - a little wider and a lot lighter & stiffer than the Arch's.

ColoradoCyclist still has their 10% off deal on custom wheels going too - I ended up with a really nice deal on the I9/Teo set.


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## robnow (Apr 12, 2010)

So two full seasons now on the 27.5 AM/Farlow and I've got to say I'm very happy with the product and NOX service. I did have some teething problems with the AM on the rear last year, NOX stepped up and we tried a couple solutions and in the end I've been on the Farlow rear all of this season.

I've put about 300000' vert on the Farlow rear and double that on the AM front, the wheels have been absolutely BOMBER. Riding includes racing enduro including the Whistler EWS, and generally all round DH riding throughout AB and BC and and an awesome summer road trip through WA/CA/OR, climbing for 90% of it and the rest park days. Checked true several times and remain absolutely consistent.

190lbs
SC Newmad
I9s with CX-Rays
Trail setup-DHF/DHR2 EXOs at 22/25
Park-Magic Mary SGs at 22/25

Next season I'll be building something up with the 29 Farlows for sure!!!


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

DevinciSean said:


> Ok guys I was all set to buy a set of 650b Roval Fattie SL's for my SC Nomad 3 when I heard about Nox Composites... I will be keeping my Flow Ex's/Hope Hubs for bike park days and rougher terrain but I was looking for some serious weight weenie wheels for more xc/all mountain style riding. After reading through this forum the consensus seems to be 32 hole front/rear but given that I haven't seen much chatter about broken Fattie SL's which are 24/28's, what do you guys think of Farlow 275's with DT Swiss 240's, 28/28? I am probably in the range of 205lbs or less when all geared up.


How remote from your car/ help do you get when you ride? Are you willing to walk all the that way if you break 2-3 spokes in an off/ stick in spokes incident?

What weight do you really think you are saving by going to 28 spokes over 32 spokes given that Nox really recommend 32 spokes for the reasons of still being able to ride the wheel if 1-2 spokes get broken damaged.

At the end of the day you have to make that call. At the end of the day you are on your Nomad 3 and you are going hit stuff and you would hate for your wheels to be your safety or fun weak link for the sake of probably 50 grams per wheel.

Based on what I have read over the past year you are best off phoning Nox and chatting to them about it.

Happy trails.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

robnow said:


> So two full seasons now on the 27.5 AM/Farlow and I've got to say I'm very happy with the product and NOX service. I did have some teething problems with the AM on the rear last year, NOX stepped up and we tried a couple solutions and in the end I've been on the Farlow rear all of this season.
> 
> I've put about 300000' vert on the Farlow rear and double that on the AM front, the wheels have been absolutely BOMBER. Riding includes racing enduro including the Whistler EWS, and generally all round DH riding throughout AB and BC and and an awesome summer road trip through WA/CA/OR, climbing for 90% of it and the rest park days. Checked true several times and remain absolutely consistent.
> 
> ...


Nice! I've been running the 29 Farlows on my RIP9 since mid June and love em. I am around 200lbs but always wear a camelback so maybe 208 geared up. Running Minion DHFs in front and rear (2.5/2.3) at about 23/26 psi. Sometimes I drop the psi lower on a ride finishing extended DH.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

All,

We are running a Thanksgiving/Black Friday special until Dec 1, free upgrade to Sapim CX-Ray spokes on any wheel build.

This is a $130 upgrade value over double butted spokes and saves about 100g on total wheelset weight.

Use coupon code: TURKEYRAY

Also we have made it easier to order centerlock hubs from DT Swiss and Onyx Racing from our website. We've also added boost hubs from I9, Hope, Onyx. We expect DT boost hubs to be coming soon.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Anyone running the Teo Front / Skyline rear? Purpose is light Trail/AM and endurance (maybe 6 hr.) 

If so, any reason not to go that route or even going up to Farlow/Teo? I planning to run 2.2 R and 2.35 F.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Skyline and AM riding is an unusual combination. Don't get me wrong - it's a strong rim, but it's still a 320-340g XC rim and other rims in our lineup are better suited to AM riding. I'd go with Teocalli/Teocalli for all around trail riding with the occasional endurance race.

Or better yet, build a trail wheelset AND a race wheelset


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm considering getting the Teocali 29 rims but I really can't justify over $800 on just the rims!


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

Opinion-Experience request: Rigid SS with Niner Rdo Fork, One Nine frame with 2.4 rear tire max clearance. (195lbs rider-riding everything from smooth STrack to rocky nasty gnarl, No drops "if I can help it- I prefer to climb vs lifts & shuttles) 

Would you go 100% Farlow, or 100% Teocalli? Or perhaps best of both worlds with Farlow Front & Teo rear. I am suffering from Analysis Paralysis. 

All Opinions appreciated, but those with SS experience on similar frames "Most Appreciated". Thank you in advance.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

fat-but-slow said:


> Would you go 100% Farlow, or 100% Teocalli? Or perhaps best of both worlds with Farlow Front & Teo rear. I am suffering from Analysis Paralysis.


I'm going with the combo, just makes sense if you're using different width tires! I'm limited to a 2.2 rear, so why would I go larger rear rim?


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

Simplemind said:


> I'm going with the combo, just makes sense if you're using different width tires! I'm limited to a 2.2 rear, so why would I go larger rear rim?


Great point. I assume your frame maxes out at 2.2? If you had the option of a 2.4 rear tire on a 29 IW rim, would you do it? Or is a 2.2 rear tire the optimal balancing point for weight vs width for a rear? in other words: is having a 2.4 rear tire on a SS overkill?


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## seking (Jan 12, 2013)

I have both the Teo and Farlows on different bikes (Ripley and SB4.5c). I have a 2.25 on my Farlow rear wheel and I wouldn't say its overkill at all. Not sure about 2.2 but I bet it would work well. The difference between the wheels is there but its not dramatic. Both are great wheels and you can't go wrong with either. That said, I don't think you will regret going wider. Farlows don't look super wide like the Ibis wheels.


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks seking. What 2.25 rear tire on the farlow are you riding? If it similar the 2.2 Ikon with it's fast feeling - quick spin up, traction, and durability : Then running Farlows on Front and Rear will be the winner. I just do not want a sluggish feeling rear wheel, with a tire having high rolling resistance. I want a light, fun, responsive set of SS wheels to climb, rip through twisty smooth SingleTrack, and finally handle challenging technical trails. I think 100% Farlow is the "best" answer.
Once again I appreciate your input


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## seking (Jan 12, 2013)

I use Nobby Nic 2.25 on rear and Hans Dampf 2.35 on front of both bikes. The Teo will probably feel marginally faster to you with the spin up due to the slightly lower weight. Of course there are other factors like hubs, spokes, nipples, etc. How much do you weigh? I'm 160 and have taken the Teos down very chunky and technical trails at speed with no issues whatsoever. Are you building a 29er? To me, one big advantage of the wider wheels is to help offset the lateral flex of those wheels. I can't directly compare with my bikes because the Farlows are on boost hubs which stiffen them up quite a bit. Not sure there is a 'best' answer for you but if you truly are concerned with weight and want a do-all wheel then the Teo is it. If you can look past the slight weight penalty and can take advantage of all the benefits of (slightly) wider wheels then the Farlows are hard to beat. I consider them mid-wide wheels. 
Also, interesting side note, look at Roval wheels. They used to call them 'Fatties' at 35mm external and 30 internal. I think they are now just Traverse. Anyway, look at their spoke count - 24! on front and 28 on rear. I know lots of guys shredding on them too. I'm a 32 hole guy but I think thats interesting to consider on wider wheels to save weight.


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

I weigh 195. Yes I'm building a SS 29er. I've ridden on Arch with Ikon 2.2 rear, Ardent 2.4 front on a carbon TB and have had 0 problems love the feel of a quick light low resistance rear wheel. Interesting that you mention spoke count. In my research I found that a pro CX racer built a set of Farlows with 24 spokes, the wheel weighed close to lightweight CX wheels, best of both worlds? Maybe, but how durable , I tend to ride far from civilization at times? A farlow up front with 28 or 24 spoke count (on the premise the front doesn't take the abuse of the rear tire) would serve as a fat low pressure suspension on my rigid SS. The rear is a different story, perhaps getting the rim to suit my favorite rear tire, the Ikon 2.2 would be wise? That rim would be the Teo. In any event, I know I am splitting hairs, but experimenting is fun, especially where there are so many variables. Thank you for suggesting the Rovals, but at this point adding more "options" could send me over the edge!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2016)

fat-but-slow said:


> In my research I found that a pro CX racer built a set of Farlows with 24 spokes, the wheel weighed close to lightweight CX wheels, best of both worlds?


Rim weight and spoke weight aren't the same, though neither matters in such small amounts. Perhaps the "Pro CX" rider appreciated the difference, or thought he did, but with larger, heavier trail tires the differences would be even less significant.



fat-but-slow said:


> In any event, I know I am splitting hairs, but experimenting is fun, especially where there are so many variables.


Yes, you are splitting hairs and you aren't experimenting here, just talking.

An experiment would be to build up each wheel and do a controlled blind test. I suspect you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

Exactly. It's time to pick a wheel and ride!


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

fat-but-slow said:


> I weigh 195. Yes I'm building a SS 29er. I've ridden on Arch with Ikon 2.2 rear, Ardent 2.4 front on a carbon TB and have had 0 problems love the feel of a quick light low resistance rear wheel. Interesting that you mention spoke count. In my research I found that a pro CX racer built a set of Farlows with 24 spokes, the wheel weighed close to lightweight CX wheels, best of both worlds? Maybe, but how durable , I tend to ride far from civilization at times? A farlow up front with 28 or 24 spoke count (on the premise the front doesn't take the abuse of the rear tire) would serve as a fat low pressure suspension on my rigid SS. The rear is a different story, perhaps getting the rim to suit my favorite rear tire, the Ikon 2.2 would be wise? That rim would be the Teo. In any event, I know I am splitting hairs, but experimenting is fun, especially where there are so many variables. Thank you for suggesting the Rovals, but at this point adding more "options" could send me over the edge!


I ride a Niner One 9 RDO set up as a rigid SS. I've had this bike set up with a set of Roval Traverse SL Fattie wheels (30mm internal) and now have Nox Teocalli (32 hole, onyx hubs, sapim laser spokes).

I only have about 50 miles on the Nox wheels after putting around 700 on the roval, and I'm running different tires now, but my initial impressions (165 pounds):

Roval were a LOT stiffer vertically. The Teocalli are more comfortable but the stiffness on rough downhills seemed to make the roval more predictable and controllable. Need more time on the wheels to be certain though.

Laterally, I can't tell much of a difference between the two. Both corner well and will hold a line. I'm running about the biggest tire I can fit and haven't had any rub with the teocalli.

Haven't noticed much of a difference in minimum required tire pressure.

Don't really notice any less sidewall support when cornering. Tires are a big factor in this though, so can't say for sure.

This summer I used a 2.2 ikon on the rear with the roval wheels. It worked well, but the main downside was there wasn't much sidewall sticking out to protect the rim from rocks. I'm thinking the 2.2 tire will provide a little more protection with the narrower teocalli rims.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

fat-but-slow said:


> Opinion-Experience request: Rigid SS with Niner Rdo Fork, One Nine frame with 2.4 rear tire max clearance. (195lbs rider-riding everything from smooth STrack to rocky nasty gnarl, No drops "if I can help it- I prefer to climb vs lifts & shuttles)
> 
> Would you go 100% Farlow, or 100% Teocalli? Or perhaps best of both worlds with Farlow Front & Teo rear. I am suffering from Analysis Paralysis.
> 
> All Opinions appreciated, but those with SS experience on similar frames "Most Appreciated". Thank you in advance.


I definitely wouldn't go Farlow (DH/Freeride), you're not hucking big gaps or hitting Whistler all day. I'd say Teocalli. Skyline just if you're racing. You seem to be squarely in the Teo range though.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Disclaimer - I ride a rigid SS. When not on it, I'm on a rigid geared bike. I'm riding the first gen Nox rims, the XCRs with a 23mm inner width. If I were building wheels for myself today I'd go with the Teocalli rear and Farlow up front. I use a bigger tire on the front (2.3-2.4) for max squish/comfort, and a slightly narrower rear tire (2.2) to keep weight and rolling resistance down. So, I'd go with the lighter rim out back and the wider rim up front.

In other news, I finally got my squishy fork fixed, and it's going back on the geared bike whenever I have time to swap it and/or want to ride the geared bike. Looking forward to having the option for some squish again!


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## fat-but-slow (Oct 19, 2009)

"If I were building wheels for myself today I'd go with the Teocalli rear and Farlow up front. I use a bigger tire on the front (2.3-2.4) for max squish/comfort, and a slightly narrower rear tire (2.2) to keep weight and rolling resistance down. So, I'd go with the lighter rim out back and the wider rim up front."

dgaddis1-Thank you for your help. The previous statement is "proof" to me. I "suspected" the "best" answer was Farlow up front with a bouncy grippy 2.4 or greater, and a Teo rear for it's lack of excessive weight and how the 2.2 Ikon is a perfect fit for it. 

Then with Coke telling of his 30mm IW rear rim exposing the sidewalls of his favorite 2.2 Ikon -which I happens to be my favorite. So.. the winner is Farlow up front and Teo out back for a Rigid SS. As you know experimenting with Carbon wheel sets "and getting it wrong" can really be a painful expensive mistake! Thanks again to all, especially those with a Rigid SS.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

fat-but-slow said:


> "If I were building wheels for myself today I'd go with the Teocalli rear and Farlow up front. I use a bigger tire on the front (2.3-2.4) for max squish/comfort, and a slightly narrower rear tire (2.2) to keep weight and rolling resistance down. So, I'd go with the lighter rim out back and the wider rim up front."
> 
> dgaddis1-Thank you for your help. The previous statement is "proof" to me. I "suspected" the "best" answer was Farlow up front with a bouncy grippy 2.4 or greater, and a Teo rear for it's lack of excessive weight and how the 2.2 Ikon is a perfect fit for it.
> 
> Then with Coke telling of his 30mm IW rear rim exposing the sidewalls of his favorite 2.2 Ikon -which I happens to be my favorite. So.. the winner is Farlow up front and Teo out back for a Rigid SS. As you know experimenting with Carbon wheel sets "and getting it wrong" can really be a painful expensive mistake! Thanks again to all, especially those with a Rigid SS.


Something to keep in mind is that your rear rim takes much more abuse than your front rim. To me, it doesn't make sense to put a weaker rim on the back


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

I was ready to pull the trigger on a Farlow/Project 321 combo.
The wheel builder I contacted weighed the 650B version and the rims were 440 grams each. Nox website has them at 420 grams. That seems like a big difference to me.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

A difference of 4.7% on a hand laid up rim. I think you have unrealistic expectations of modern carbon rim manufacturing. If the 20 grams is so important get him to sort through all of his stock and pick the two matchin lightest rims.


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

dustyduke22 said:


> Something to keep in mind is that your rear rim takes much more abuse than your front rim. To me, it doesn't make sense to put a weaker rim on the back


In general I'd agree, except mixing the rims is not about strength in this case. Either the Teo or Farlow are plenty strong/stiff enough, weight and width are the two factors at play.


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## sherwin24 (Jul 23, 2010)

Been on the fence about these for a year. Back and forth between carbon and alloy, if carbon, which brand. Then what size ID to go with...Finally deciding on Farlow with Hadley hubs it looks like to go on a Knolly Endorphin 27.5. Although, still wavering between the Teo a bit. At 200lbs. and fairly aggressive I think the Teo would be ok, and I would not mind the weight savings. However I have the bike built up more towards AM than XC and Farlows will save about 420 grams over my current wheels while adding stiffness. The Knolly rear end is so stiff that my thought is go with the stiffest wheel I can get. Perhaps that is the wrong way to think about it, dunno. Can't see going Kitsuma wide either, Most tires I run will be in the 2.3-2.4 range.

Not planning to race, and if I do, not planning to be overly competitive, so Farlow seems the the ticket for all around riding from smooth trails to rocky rooty chunk which make up the trails here.

Sound thinking?


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## skey44 (Dec 8, 2011)

I love my teocalli rims! They are laced up on I9 Torch hubs and spokes. I ride in northwest SC and western NC. These things are getting tested well 😎 I weigh 190 and do all but the biggest drops and gaps. I rode 3 enduros last year. I love the reaction from people "in the know" and they say "are those the Nox" and then I smile. Couldnt be happier, they are a well made product that really transforms a bike with good wheels already (I had I9 trail rims which I was able to swap without modification) into a "super bike." My rims both weighed 387g if I remember correctly. Wider and lighter 👌


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

sherwin24 said:


> Not planning to race, and if I do, not planning to be overly competitive, so Farlow seems the the ticket for all around riding from smooth trails to rocky rooty chunk which make up the trails here.
> 
> Sound thinking?


Just go Farlow front and Teo rear. Best of both worlds.


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## sherwin24 (Jul 23, 2010)

Yeah maybe that is the best combo.

@skey44, I rode Pisgah a couple years ago, if they can stand up to that, they will be fine here.

Thanks for the input.


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## signal (Jun 1, 2004)

Loving these wheels...something to keep in my mind for my next upgrade.


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

I just want to add in for anyone thinking of NOX wheels.. My teocalli have been getting rock struck in the same fashion that has broken wheels for me before. The rock strikes are ripping off the stickers so I know they're hard strikes. These wheels are just plowing through like a tank. I'm really happy with the quality and price.

I'm close to upgrading to farlow and keeping the teocalli as backup.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

*2016 Spring Update*

Thanks for the kind words guys. I thought I'd give you a quick update.

Decals: We are now offering two types of decals, the N-O-X decals mostly seen in this thread and the Classic "NOX" decal 3x around the rim. Both are stocked in black or white. Below is a pic of the classic decals in black. Most people are digging the N-O-X decals but if you want something more traditional, this is an option.









New rims: Kitsuma 29 will be shipping soon, 36mm inner/42mm outer asymmetrical. For those of you into road or CX/gravel we are also now shipping the S36R and A36D rims. All other mountain rims are in stock now!

Wheels: We have hired some of the best wheel builders in the southeast and have really stepped up the game here. Every wheelset is built to order by one guy start to finish (no machines) and then handed over to someone else for a full quality check using dial indicators and wheel-fanatyk digital tensionmeters. While this approach is more expensive and time consuming, we're confident it's a big reason our wheels have the reputation for being bulletproof. We are cranking out most wheels in about 10 days unless the hubs have some lead time.

Hubs: We've expanded the hub choices to about anything you could need including Boost, lefty, lefty supermax, RS-1, etc. from I9, Hope, P321, Onyx, King and DT Swiss.

We are offering free domestic shipping for a limited time on all wheels using coupon code MTBRFREESHIP.

Thanks!


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Is there any timeline on when we will see the Kitsuma 29 rim available?

Thanks,


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, about 2 weeks or March 23ish


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We are also now stocking the 2016 decals in 8 standard colors. We still have plenty of the 2015 if you prefer those.

Custom decals have been a real pain to manage because of how we outsource them and therefore don't have as much control over the timelines as we'd like. We're hoping these 8 standard colors will eliminate the need for most custom requests and help us get your rims/wheels out much quicker.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Do you have any pics of the hi Vis yellow in the wild? Can the A36D be ordered in 32h?

Thanks,


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Not yet, we've only shipped out a few wheelsets with them so far and did not take pics unfortunately. The hi vis yellow is a match for the Ibis "Vitamin P" color for reference.

We don't currently have the A36D in 32h, expecting to have some in our next A36D production batch appx. April 10th.


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## Dickbrown (Feb 18, 2012)

really diggin the new decals. Was not a fan of the old ones. Nice job! Will be ordering a set for my Teo's...


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2016)

Dickbrown said:


> really diggin the new decals. Was not a fan of the old ones. Nice job! Will be ordering a set for my Teo's...


They should be offered free to people who paid for their rims/wheel sets. I've never been asked to pay for a business card handed to me.


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

bob-o said:


> They should be offered free to people who paid for their rims/wheel sets. I've never been asked to pay for a business card handed to me.


I'm sure if you called or emailed and asked nicely they would hook you up. 
But the way you said it comes off entitled and douchetastic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

bob-o said:


> They should be offered free to people who paid for their rims/wheel sets. I've never been asked to pay for a business card handed to me.


And you know if you feel that strongly about advertising for someone who is paying for your advertising space you can peel the stickers off. But I bet you still have the dealer surround around your car number plate!

A business card is a silly comparisom as they cost about $0.50 not $5-25 to produce, slightly different long term cost to a business to be giving away wheelset stickers.


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## BKO (Feb 9, 2015)

I haven't read through the entire thread so excuse me if i missed this, but just curious if anyone has used Colorado Cyclist for their build? Looks like most just go through Nox directly? Any preference on a particular vendor?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

BKO said:


> I haven't read through the entire thread so excuse me if i missed this, but just curious if anyone has used Colorado Cyclist for their build? Looks like most just go through Nox directly? Any preference on a particular vendor?


Order directly through Nox, CC, or have your favorite wheel builder build you a set. I assume you could get them through a LBS as well.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

I went directly through Nox and was happy with the process and the build, and would purchase from them again. I'd consider CC or custom builders if I was after a hub or spoke combination that Nox didn't offer. Though when I bought mine, Nox worked with me to use different spokes (I didn't want to spend CX-Ray $) and add blue nipples that weren't an option yet. So pretty much custom anyway.


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## BKO (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I've been browsing around and have seen small pricing differences. Good to know there are positive experiences across diff. vendors.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

NOX built my Teocali/DT350 training wheels. I've got nearly 30 hours on them. I weigh 195. As of yesterday, they have not budged out of true, and remain perfectly centered, as verified by a non-digital Park Spoke Tensiometer and TS-2.2 truing stand.

So far, great stuff and great build!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Quick note to let you all know the Kitsuma 29 rims are in stock in limited quantities.

Width: 36mm internal, 42mm external
Depth: 30mm
Weight: 475g +/- 10g (DH layup available +50g)
ERD: 586
Asymmetric Offset 2.6mm

More details and build options: Kitsuma 29 Carbon Fiber Mountain Wheels | Nox Composites


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

NoxComposites said:


> Quick note to let you all know the Kitsuma 29 rims are in stock in limited quantities.
> 
> Width: 36mm internal, 42mm external
> Depth: 30mm
> ...


I have a set of Teocalli 29er wheels being build by Dave at Speed Dreams, the best in my opinion! Project 321 hubs that are designed better than I9 with just minimal weight gain, Sapim CX Ray spokes with alloy nips. I hope it will be easier to get tires on and off compared to my Derby set. The Derby's are just a pain-in-the-Ass to get on and off, especially if your on the trail.


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## rehpot (Mar 25, 2011)

Been riding the 27.5 teocalis for about 6 months now and they absolutely transformed the bike. East TN/Western NC. Initially had Conti MK 2.4 front 2.2 rear for fall/winter, just installed Schwalbe NN front and RaRa rear, both tubless. Biggest difference for me was stiffness most noticable to me in turns, now its both stiffness/acceleration! Couple hundred miles, rock thumps/pathetic attempts to jump/manual and they're just like new, but dirtier. I'm ~190 lbs 86kg and an average rider. Went from stock to these on a 2014 Giant Anthem 3. Love them. Quality people/quality product. 
glam shot:

https://goo.gl/photos/5SV3EDPjXvsjKzbw9


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## mnyquist (Sep 18, 2009)

Nox A36D CX disk rim
Industry nine hubs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Building them up this week with pink i9 hubs










Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## andres611 (Aug 21, 2009)

Any idea where to get the NOX Farlow decals in other colors?


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

andres611 said:


> Any idea where to get the NOX Farlow decals in other colors?


Until about 3 weeks ago you could order through Nox however they stopped that program. I pre ordered 3 sets before they changed. If you have an unused set, maybe a local shop or after market decal place can copy.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I think the new NOX decals are a joke, NOX needs to step up their game when it come's to decals. My two cents!!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> I think the new NOX decals are a joke, NOX needs to step up their game when it come's to decals. My two cents!!


I just found someone that's will have them soon, I will relay info ASAP!


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> I think the new NOX decals are a joke, NOX needs to step up their game when it come's to decals. My two cents!!


I think they look miles better than the N-O-X decals. The original Nox stickers looked best though.

I've got the new 2016 in black on my rims. Looks good, I like stealth wheels, it keeps the focus on the frame.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

madskatingcow said:


> I think they look miles better than the N-O-X decals. The original Nox stickers looked best though.
> 
> I've got the new 2016 in black on my rims. Looks good, I like stealth wheels, it keeps the focus on the frame.


Decals from ebay 222103311101, 35 bucks from Hungary. They also have white.


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## gcudd (Apr 8, 2016)

I just ordered up some 29" Farlows for a Yeti 4.5c that I plan to put Ardent 2.4 on front and Ikon 2.2 on rear. I found this thread after ordering the wheels and wonder if I made a mistake not going with the Teo or at least in the rear. I am putting together a fairly light build everywhere else and looking for low rolling resistance. I've read a little that a 2.2 Ikon really should go on a Teo and that the side wall is a little too exposed on the Farlow. Not real crazy about the squared profile look of a tire, but will I really notice much difference between the Teo or Farlow? Any input would be great.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

gcudd said:


> I just ordered up some 29" Farlows for a Yeti 4.5c that I plan to put Ardent 2.4 on front and Ikon 2.2 on rear. I found this thread after ordering the wheels and wonder if I made a mistake not going with the Teo or at least in the rear. I am putting together a fairly light build everywhere else and looking for low rolling resistance. I've read a little that a 2.2 Ikon really should go on a Teo and that the side wall is a little too exposed on the Farlow. Not real crazy about the squared profile look of a tire, but will I really notice much difference between the Teo or Farlow? Any input would be great.


I have a set of specialized roval traverse SL fattie carbon rims which are 30mm internal and I also have a set of Teocalli.

I personally think the 2.2 ikon was too small when I had them on the roval wheels. Didn't like the profile of the tire and I wasn't comfortable riding in rocks with that combo. If you don't mind the extra weight, I have had good luck with the 2.2 Ardent Race and 2.35 Ikon on those rims.

I've run 2.1 to 2.5 tires on the Teocalli, and they seem to do well with any tires within this size range.


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## gcudd (Apr 8, 2016)

coke said:


> I have a set of specialized roval traverse SL fattie carbon rims which are 30mm internal and I also have a set of Teocalli.
> 
> I personally think the 2.2 ikon was too small when I had them on the roval wheels. Didn't like the profile of the tire and I wasn't comfortable riding in rocks with that combo. If you don't mind the extra weight, I have had good luck with the 2.2 Ardent Race and 2.35 Ikon on those rims.
> 
> I've run 2.1 to 2.5 tires on the Teocalli, and they seem to do well with any tires within this size range.


Thanks for the feedback! The main reason I went with the Farlows was from my understanding a little better grip and I didn't want to go too agressive tire to keep the rolling resistance down. I was ok with the little extra weight over the Teo as I went with a little lighter I9 hubs and the Ray spokes. Hopefully I'll like the setup.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

gcudd said:


> Thanks for the feedback! The main reason I went with the Farlows was from my understanding a little better grip and I didn't want to go too agressive tire to keep the rolling resistance down. I was ok with the little extra weight over the Teo as I went with a little lighter I9 hubs and the Ray spokes. Hopefully I'll like the setup.


Forgot to mention, I also didn't like the 2.4 ardent / 2.2 ikon combo on loose over hard. It wasn't a balanced setup and the rear broke loose while cornering a lot sooner than the front. I prefer the rear to break loose first, but with this combo there was too much of a traction gap between the 2 tires on my local trails.

Just my opinion, but I'd give the following a try depending on your terrain. All should work well with your rims. The 2.35 ikon on 30mm rims at low pressure has a lot more traction than you'd expect.

2.4 ardent / 2.35 Ikon
2.4 ardent / 2.2 ardent race
2.35 ikon / 2.35 ikon
2.35 ikon / 2.2 ardent race


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## gcudd (Apr 8, 2016)

coke said:


> Forgot to mention, I also didn't like the 2.4 ardent / 2.2 ikon combo on loose over hard. It wasn't a balanced setup and the rear broke loose while cornering a lot sooner than the front. I prefer the rear to break loose first, but with this combo there was too much of a traction gap between the 2 tires on my local trails.
> 
> Just my opinion, but I'd give the following a try depending on your terrain. All should work well with your rims. The 2.35 ikon on 30mm rims at low pressure has a lot more traction than you'd expect.
> 
> ...


Thanks again! I was considering the 2.35 Ikon for the rear, but I'm afraid it wont fit the Yeti 4.5c... and even more so with the Farlows. Might take your advice and go Ardent race. I'm in Phoenix and its always dry and slick. On my current 26" cheap bike with not even sure what kind of tires I always feel on edge and about to wash out in the turns.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Probably already covered here but a question on matching rim to tire size...

If plan on running 2.2 to 2.4" tires on Nox rims, my guess is the best option would be the Teocalli at i26mm, external 32mm.

I'm thinking the Farlows would be too wide for that range of tire.

Thoughts?

Any significant difference in rim durability or stiffness in the two rims?


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## Silent Drone (Jun 7, 2013)

Miker J said:


> Probably already covered here but a question on matching rim to tire size...
> 
> If plan on running 2.2 to 2.4" tires on Nox rims, my guess is the best option would be the Teocalli at i26mm, external 32mm.
> 
> ...


I had this decision a couple of months ago and decided to go with the Farlows which I'm running with 2.35 nobby nics f/r. I don't regret it! The Farlow is 50 grams heavier per wheel but I offset this penalty by getting the CX ray spokes and I9 hubs. I decided I wanted to lean towards the rim that could go bigger (maybe 2.5 tires one day) if I wanted to. I don't ever see myself running less than 2.35. Plus Nox says that the Farlow is a stouter rim, although I'm sure the Teo is plenty tough. I am love- love- loving the low pressure style of rolling with this new-to-me combo. I started a thread that you can find where this question was discussed previously.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Probably already covered here but a question on matching rim to tire size...
> 
> If plan on running 2.2 to 2.4" tires on Nox rims, my guess is the best option would be the Teocalli at i26mm, external 32mm.
> 
> ...


I think you're right on the borderline. For me, I'm stoked with the Teocalis on my Fuel EX, which I use for endurance racing, and run 2.2 or 2.3 tires (XR3s and XR2s).

On my Remedy, I went a bit wider, since 2.3 is the minimum size that bike sees (and I'm eagerly awaiting the XR4 in 2.55 this summer).

I've got far over 100 hours on my Teocali wheels (not a data guy) without a peep. I'm a bit obsessive about true wheels, and I've probably turned 5 nipples less than a quarter turn each. Great rims and great builders.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks for the replies.

I do have a 29er Derby rim that has an external width of 35mm IIRC. I run a lot of Specialized tires, Purgs and GCs a lot in the Grid at 2.35"

When I look at the rim and tire it does appear to be a mismatch. The rim also gets a lot of superficial scratches in it due it it's relative "overhang".

I think the Spec 2.35s are pretty true to size. I run a Schwalbe MM, at 2.35 on another bike, though that tire looks like a 2.4". I'm not sold on tires greater than 2.4" for aggressive riding. Sidewalls get too thin, or they are just too heavy and sluggish for me.

Agree that the Farlow should be a stiffer rim simply due to more material, but I'm leaning toward the Teo.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

I'm on a Yeti 4.5 and plan on going with the Teo. I run a 2.3-2.4 front and a 2.3 rear. This bike will accept a 2.4 rear max, but will have slight chain stay rub, so I don't get why so many people are running the Farlow on this bike that's a XC/ trail bike. I'm guessing that the rub would get worse with the wider Farlow/ 2.4 rear. From reading 4.5 threads it seams that the Farlow is about 60/40 over the Teo on this bike and I think it's over kill to go with the Farlow.


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## gcudd (Apr 8, 2016)

Chicane32 said:


> I'm on a Yeti 4.5 and plan on going with the Teo. I run a 2.3-2.4 front and a 2.3 rear. This bike will accept a 2.4 rear max, but will have slight chain stay rub, so I don't get why so many people are running the Farlow on this bike that's a XC/ trail bike. I'm guessing that the rub would get worse with the wider Farlow/ 2.4 rear. From reading 4.5 threads it seams that the Farlow is about 60/40 over the Teo on this bike and I think it's over kill to go with the Farlow.


I think you are in the right track with this specific bike. I believe most have bought into wider is better and it probably is, but the 4.5 is better suited for the Teo or a mix of Farlow and Teo. I'm actually looking to return one of my rims for a Teo as they haven't been laced yet.


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## theycallmeE (Aug 21, 2007)

*Teocalli+Ardent 2.4+DVO Diamond*

Hoping for some specs from anyone running an Ardent 2.4 (29") with a Teocalli rim. My DVO Diamond (2015) doesn't have tons of tire clearance already, and that's with an old Arch rim. Don't want to get the new rim laced up and find I can't fit this tire or can't use this fork. If anyone is running this rim/tire combination, could you post a measurement from axle center to top of inflated tire?

The tight clearance I'm speaking of is between the bottom of fork arch and top of tire (not width).

Or, if you are using this fork with this combination, how is your clearance?

Thanks for any help!

E


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

rehpot said:


> Been riding the 27.5 teocalis for about 6 months now and they absolutely transformed the bike. East TN/Western NC. Initially had Conti MK 2.4 front 2.2 rear for fall/winter, just installed Schwalbe NN front and RaRa rear, both tubless. Biggest difference for me was stiffness most noticable to me in turns, now its both stiffness/acceleration! Couple hundred miles, rock thumps/pathetic attempts to jump/manual and they're just like new, but dirtier. I'm ~190 lbs 86kg and an average rider. Went from stock to these on a 2014 Giant Anthem 3. Love them. Quality people/quality product.
> glam shot:
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/5SV3EDPjXvsjKzbw9


I just picked up a 2016 Anthem SX in May and we're about the same size, wondering how the wheels are working out (I'm interested in the same ones)? Still good? Also I have the same tire combo you are running now. What size/compound did you go with for the NN? Stock I have a 2.25 Pacestar and so far I'm not loving it. Wondering if a switch to the larger 2.35 Trailstar would make a significant difference?


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Shout out for NOX customer service and rock strike policy. ! year old Skyline lost the battle to the Rocky Mountains. Less than a week later replacement rim shows up for the cost of shipping and handling. This level of service and support really adds to the value of these excellent wheels.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi all, just wanted to let you guys know we offering free CX-Ray spoke upgrades on all wheels ordered July 25 - Aug 7. The coupon code is: SUMMER16RAY. This is $200 worth of spokes and a $130 savings over our normal price to upgrade from double butted spokes. If you follow us, you'll know we don't offer discounts like this often. If you've been considering some new wheels or are on the fence, now is the time!

We now have over 1 million different wheel configurations you can order on our website based around hubs we've tested and trust. If you need something not shown let us know and we'll build it. [email protected]


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

NoxComposites said:


> Hi all, just wanted to let you guys know we offering free CX-Ray spoke upgrades on all wheels ordered July 25 - Aug 7. The coupon code is: SUMMER16RAY. This is $200 worth of spokes and a $130 savings over our normal price to upgrade from double butted spokes. If you follow us, you'll know we don't offer discounts like this often. If you've been considering some new wheels or are on the fence, now is the time!
> 
> We now have over 1 million different wheel configurations you can order on our website based around hubs we've tested and trust. If you need something not shown let us know and we'll build it. [email protected]


I just received my wheels a couple days ago. I guess its too late for a discount?


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## rehpot (Mar 25, 2011)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Hi all, just wanted to let you guys know we offering free CX-Ray spoke upgrades on all wheels ordered July 25 - Aug 7. The coupon code is: SUMMER16RAY. This is $200 worth of spokes and a $130 savings over our normal price to upgrade from double butted spokes. If you follow us, you'll know we don't offer discounts like this often. If you've been considering some new wheels or are on the fence, now is the time!

We now have over 1 million different wheel configurations you can order on our website based around hubs we've tested and trust. If you need something not shown let us know and we'll build it. [email protected]


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## rehpot (Mar 25, 2011)

DevinciSean said:


> I just picked up a 2016 Anthem SX in May and we're about the same size, wondering how the wheels are working out (I'm interested in the same ones)? Still good? Also I have the same tire combo you are running now. What size/compound did you go with for the NN? Stock I have a 2.25 Pacestar and so far I'm not loving it. Wondering if a switch to the larger 2.35 Trailstar would make a significant difference?


Sorry about the delayed response. 2.25 pacestar front and back. snakeskin on the NN front. RaRa STILL leaks air out the sidewalls with stans. Slowed down tremendously, but at first thought I was going to have to put a tube back in it. Grip over stock tires is night and day, but most come with not the best tires, so not a surprise. Grip compared to my Conti combo? These are much faster, but they also have different applications. Conti combo is for fall/winter, wet leaves and mud.

Just washed the bike today. Was thinking I should get the wheels trued/tension checked but everything is straight and tight. Still in love with them! So friggin laser precise compared to stock wheels. I'm doing lots of road miles cause that's what my life allows right now, but when I hop on for a 1-2 hour ride the bike wheel combo is always fun, snappy and I wish I had more time to ride!


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## grotto wood (Aug 10, 2016)

*Beware of Nox*

i was looking to order a set of carbon wheels for my new Hightower. I was gonna go with derby's because a shop near my work recommended them and the owner is a pro rider. My local shop in Laguna recommended the Nox. I was torn but decided to go with Nox and Chris King hubs. Bad mistake. My local shop ordered the correct build ( boost hubs). After three weeks they arrived and the back wheel was correct but the front wheel did not have the boost hub. Nox was unwilling to take the wheel back and blamed my local shop but I saw the order. Now I have one carbon rim in the back and no idea when and if I will ever see my front wheel. I the customer am screwed while they fight it out. Total BS. If Nox were my company I would have expedited the correct wheel out as soon as possible . So buyer beware.


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## F29Lefty (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm interested in buying some NOX carbon hoops. How do they compare to Enve? Im on some 24 spoke i9 trail 245s and look for something stiffer, rode some enves and couldn't believe how well they track. just don't have 3k to fork out right now.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

F29Lefty said:


> I'm interested in buying some NOX carbon hoops. How do they compare to Enve? Im on some 24 spoke i9 trail 245s and look for something stiffer, rode some enves and couldn't believe how well they track. just don't have 3k to fork out right now.


I would take a set of Nox rims any day over a set of Enve rims.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## F29Lefty (Apr 10, 2014)

dustyduke22 said:


> I would take a set of Nox rims any day over a set of Enve rims.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


oh wow! why is that??


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

F29Lefty said:


> oh wow! why is that??


Nearly half the price, wider bead width, asymmetrical, external nipples, etc

I have had too many customers bring me Enve their wheels to work on, and I end up referring them back to Enve for a warranty claim.

You don't have to spend $2500 to $3k anymore to get a high end, solid and durable carbon wheelset.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## F29Lefty (Apr 10, 2014)

dustyduke22 said:


> Nearly half the price, wider bead width, asymmetrical, external nipples, etc
> 
> I have had too many customers bring me Enve their wheels to work on, and I end up referring them back to Enve for a warranty claim.
> 
> ...


damn. well Nox it is! yah no way i will spend 3k on wheels... no way


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

Anyone running 2.5's on kitsuma's? Are they too wide for the 2.3-2.5 range.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

We get this questions a lot, here are the general guidelines we tell customers:

Skyline (23mm) 2.0 - 2.25
Teocalli (26mm) 2.25 - 2.35
Farlow (29mm) 2.3 - 2.45
Kitsuma (36mm) 2.4 - 3.0

This is just a general guideline, your results may vary depending on the specific tire and your riding style. But in general, yes the 2.5s are right in the sweet spot for the Kitsuma.

BTW - don't forget to register for our wheelset giveaway in just a few days! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...6HWInjXci-fFSU4DueRjVYAM9ayQ/viewform?c=0&w=1


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

NoxComposites said:


> We get this questions a lot, here are the general guidelines we tell customers:
> 
> Skyline (23mm) 2.0 - 2.25
> Teocalli (26mm) 2.25 - 2.35
> ...


I bet you do! I, for one, am glad we are at the point where we are asking if rims are *too* wide.  Ever build wheelsets with a Farlow in the rear and Kitsuma in the front? Never ride anything less than a 2.4 in the front. Nothing less than a 2.3 in the rear.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes we do. We try to keep decals consistent so you can mix rims like this. It's a sweet setup.

Absolutely agree, wide rims are great but it all depends on what tires you are running. Ultimately your tires and rims need to work together to give you the best riding experience.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Jwind said:


> Anyone running 2.5's on kitsuma's? Are they too wide for the 2.3-2.5 range.


I think the Kitsuma's are not the best choice for 2.5 tire!! I would go Farlow instead. Kitsuma's if going + size tires, like 2.8 -3.0 tires.

I do not like when tire gets "to squared off" just like NOX was saying very important to get correct size tire for the rim, if rim is too wide for tire. I run a 2.4 Bontrager XR4 team issue on my Teocali 29er wheels and my hub is the Project 321 with the new Project 321 high engagement low drag upgrade now available at Project 321. They also have an option to make them very quiet as I did!!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> I think the Kitsuma's are not the best choice for 2.5 tire!! I would go Farlow instead. Kitsuma's if going + size tires, like 2.8 -3.0 tires.
> 
> I do not like when tire gets "to squared off" just like NOX was saying very important to get correct size tire for the rim, if rim is too wide for tire. I run a 2.4 Bontrager XR4 team issue on my Teocali 29er wheels and my hub is the Project 321 with the new Project 321 high engagement low drag upgrade now available at Project 321. They also have an option to make them very quiet as I did!!


Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be interested in seeing a picture of your tire. I have the same tire on a 30mm inner and it's still nice and round.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

NoxComposites said:


> We get this questions a lot, here are the general guidelines we tell customers:
> 
> Skyline (23mm) 2.0 - 2.25
> Teocalli (26mm) 2.25 - 2.35
> ...


NoxComposites

If I was to only run 2.3s -- specifically Minion DHF front/DHRII rear -- which would you prefer:
Teocalli or Farlows? I see 2.3 really could go either way


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jon123 said:


> NoxComposites
> 
> If I was to only run 2.3s -- specifically Minion DHF front/DHRII rear -- which would you prefer:
> Teocalli or Farlows? I see 2.3 really could go either way


Teocalli. Great sweet spot of width bs. weight and will handle a 2.3 just fine.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> I think the Kitsuma's are not the best choice for 2.5 tire!! I would go Farlow instead. Kitsuma's if going + size tires, like 2.8 -3.0 tires.
> 
> I do not like when tire gets "to squared off" just like NOX was saying very important to get correct size tire for the rim, if rim is too wide for tire. I run a 2.4 Bontrager XR4 team issue on my Teocali 29er wheels and my hub is the Project 321 with the new Project 321 high engagement low drag upgrade now available at Project 321. They also have an option to make them very quiet as I did!!


i don't see this upgrade in their web. do you have a link?


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

jon123 said:


> NoxComposites
> 
> If I was to only run 2.3s -- specifically Minion DHF front/DHRII rear -- which would you prefer:
> Teocalli or Farlows? I see 2.3 really could go either way


I have derby's now. I've had those tires on them just fine. Farlow would be my choice here without question.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

^^^personal preference varies a bit with respect to rim/tire widths but when I switched from 27mm internal width rims to Farlows, I had been running 2.3 Butchers for a long time (a couple years) and those tires did not jive at all with the wider Farlows. they came off almost immediately. 2.3 DHFs and DHR2s were slightly better, but I switched out to 2.4 DHR2s as soon as they became available, and they far better than any of the previous options. the 2.35 e13 TRS tires were pretty good on the Farlows too. I put a couple hundred miles on a set of Ibis 741s (35mm internal) with 2.3 DHFs and did not care for that combo at all -- in fact that persuaded me to buy the Farlows.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> Teocalli. Great sweet spot of width bs. weight and will handle a 2.3 just fine.





Jwind said:


> I have derby's now. I've had those tires on them just fine. Farlow would be my choice here without question.





hardboiled said:


> ^^^personal preference varies a bit with respect to rim/tire widths but when I switched from 27mm internal width rims to Farlows, I had been running 2.3 Butchers for a long time (a couple years) and those tires did not jive at all with the wider Farlows. they came off almost immediately. 2.3 DHFs and DHR2s were slightly better, but I switched out to 2.4 DHR2s as soon as they became available, and they far better than any of the previous options. the 2.35 e13 TRS tires were pretty good on the Farlows too. I put a couple hundred miles on a set of Ibis 741s (35mm internal) with 2.3 DHFs and did not care for that combo at all -- in fact that persuaded me to buy the Farlows.


Appreciate all the replies. It's a tough one.
On the one hand Farlows give that extra bit of traction while on the other hand there's a decent weight savings with the Teocalli's. 
I actually have Farlows now and love them. They've been perfect. But have an opportunity to switch wheelsets and thinking shaving 140 grams is very enticing.
When I got the Farlows I was often swapping tires, sometimes running 2.4 and even tried 2.8 (didn't like those at all, FWIW). But for where I ride there really isn't a better tire than the Maxxis 2.3 setup so I'd have to say I'm leaning to the Teos to get that weight savings.
With I9s and cx-ray spokes it's a pretty amazing wheelset -- crazy light (little over 1400 grams) and still ultra stiff and decently wide.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

I have i30 rims with DHRII 2.3" on one bike and NN 2.35" tires on another. They both fit and ride spot on. I have i35 with DHF 2.5" and that works great. I'll be putting a Han D 2.35" on my other i35 rim. and see how that goes. I have gone as narrow as 2.25 NN's on my i30 rims that worked fine too. Personally if I was buying a set on NOX, I'd go Farlow rear and Katsumi front to pair up with the tires above.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

jon123 said:


> With I9s and cx-ray spokes it's a pretty amazing wheelset -- crazy light (little over 1400 grams) and still ultra stiff and decently wide.


I went through the same process and ended up at the same conclusion, though I don't think I assumed that I'd get a discernible difference in traction with the Farlows. I just built the same spec wheelset in 28h 29er rims and 1x/2x lacing and was dead on 1500g... impressive.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm looking for rims too. Ordered a Yeti SB4.5 frame today so it will use ~2.35 tires. The Derby rims are simply too wide for that size tire. Any strong carbon options besides NOX? I have used NOX (cross A36D rims) before but wanted to explore current carbon rim options. I think ~26mm inner width is about where I want to be. I don't like how wider rims feel with that size tires, especially on corners.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Flyer said:


> I'm looking for rims too. Ordered a Yeti SB4.5 frame today so it will use ~2.35 tires. The Derby rims are simply too wide for that size tire. Any strong carbon options besides NOX? I have used NOX (cross A36D rims) before but wanted to explore current carbon rim options. I think ~26mm inner width is about where I want to be. I don't like how wider rims feel with that size tires, especially on corners.


Nextie is having a sale and it's where I ordered the rims for my upcoming wheel build. I went 27mm front and 25mm rear.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Light Bicycle's has really stepped up their game with the quality of rims, I also have the NOX Teocalli 29 rims that I really like. I have 4 sets on LB rims and not one problem with any one. At 170 each hard to beat!!

Also so people know the new Project321 hubs are now shipping 216 points of engagement, I just received my wheel back with the new upgraded drive system. So smooth, great part is your older Project 321 hubs are upgradable to the new drive system.
I believe the website will updated soon. Go to the facebook page and read about the upgrade. My other Project 321 hub is getting the upgrade also, so smooth!!


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

Flyer said:


> I don't like how wider rims feel with that size tires, especially on corners.


You prefer your tires to fold over on themselves?  Have you actually used derby's with that size?


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Jwind said:


> You prefer your tires to fold over on themselves?  Have you actually used derby's with that size?


Why does everyone assume when someone doesn't like what they like it's because they haven't tried it?

I'll throw out there, currently have one set Derbys & Ibis 735- had 2 LB 30mm inner. As hard as it may be for you to believe I went narrower on the set of rims I just ordered.

So now, please tell me how wrong I am?


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TwoTone said:


> Why does everyone assume when someone doesn't like what they like it's because they haven't tried it?


It's an epidemic:
*Egocentrism* is the inability to differentiate between self and other. More specifically, it is the inability to untangle subjective schemas from objective reality; an inability to understand or assume any perspective other than their own


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> Why does everyone assume when someone doesn't like what they like it's because they haven't tried it?


Because in this particular case you are in the minority but whatever blows your skirt up.



meltingfeather said:


> Egocentrism is the inability to differentiate between self and other. More specifically, it is the inability to untangle subjective schemas from objective reality; an inability to understand or assume any perspective other than their own


You must be so fun at parties.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Jwind said:


> Because in this particular case you are in the minority but whatever blows your skirt up.


So being in the minority makes someone wrong?


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

TwoTone said:


> So being in the minority makes someone wrong?


Remind me where I said that?

You asked why people assume you have not tried it. Most people dig the wider rims. That's why they are getting wider and we have so many great options now. So it's only natural to assume someone hasn't tried it, or at least ask - like I did. Like I said earlier, the beauty here is it's all about what you like. Riding (carrying?) skinny wheeled bikes in the mud and jumping over wooden barriers is fun for more people than I'd ever imagine. So who am I to pass judgment.


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## Andrew8404 (Nov 20, 2011)

Not to get away from Nox Composites but I recently went from a Ibis 738 to a Enve HV60 which is substantially smaller. I won the rims so can't argue that! Anyways, after a few rides I noticed that I didn't feel as confident going through the ruff stuff i.e. plowing rocks. But after looking at my times I noticed I'm faster on the climbs and the downs with the M60s. Now that's not a big surprise due aluminum vs carbon but you would think on the rocky DHs it wouldn't be such a time gap. I'm guessing I make up time due to quicker acceleration in the turns and pedaling. Not a apples to apples comparison but just my two cents. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Jwind said:


> You must be so fun at parties.


You misquoted me.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Really looking to move an awesome set of Teo's...

http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showpro...lli-dt-swiss-240s-carbon-29er-wheelset&cat=10


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## swagner2 (Sep 3, 2007)

*Sent you an offer.*

I sent you an offer.



ghughes.hesinc said:


> Really looking to move an awesome set of Teo's...
> 
> Nox Teocalli / DT Swiss 240s carbon 29er Wheelset - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Anybody switched from Nox SKyline 29 to Teocalli 29's ? Can you feel the 3mm internal width difference (23mm vs 26mm) on the trail?


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

+1 on that question...been wondering same thing. Got the Skylines, wondering if I'd feel the 3mm difference.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

It would really depend on the tires.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

MattMay said:


> +1 on that question...been wondering same thing. Got the Skylines, wondering if I'd feel the 3mm difference.


So, got the wheels built :

Nox Teocalli 29 rimes
DT Swiss 240S straight pull boost front & rear
Sapim D-Light
Weight without tubeless tape (DT Swiss 27mm) or valves, front : 685g + rear : 784g = 1469g vs 1390g with Nox Skyline 29 rims.

Mounted my used Racing Ralphs 29x2.25 from my Skyline 29 rims. Odd enough, while the rim is 3mm wider, the overall casing width is only 0.5mm wider. 55.5mm vs 56mm, measured at same psi.

First 80km ride last weekend, muddy conditions. Started out with the same pressure as I usually ride in my Skyline's, but had to lower the pressure by 0.3psi to get the same firmness (?), which I found out during my ride that I still had to lower them even more.
Seems like they have more grip on angled surfaces and feel more plush when riding over roots and rocks.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

^^^Hopefully you mean 3 psi, not .3 psi. It would take quite a sensitive ass to notice .3 psi.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

good info...thx!


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

BmanInTheD said:


> ^^^Hopefully you mean 3 psi, not .3 psi. It would take quite a sensitive ass to notice .3 psi.


Yes, correct - we work in 'bar' lol, made a typo while converting to psi :thumbsup:


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## varmintpro (Oct 1, 2008)

Just a shout out to Nox:

I've been on my Kitsuma's for about 6 months and they have been great! These are my first set of carbon wheels for the dirt. I'm on a Hightower running 27.5+ with 2.8" and the Kitsuma rims are just right. I'm considering adding 29er wheels as well and price out Teocali and Skyline wheelsets almost daily... 
I have ENVE wheels on my road bike and they are fabulous wheels as well, and a great company to work with; but at a 2-to-1 price difference, Nox is all I am considering for my next wheelset.


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## carbine_275 (Nov 15, 2015)

Preparing to build up a set of Kitsuma's on King boost hubs, laced with Wheelsmith DB14 spokes for my Mojo3. Waiting impatiently for the spokes to arrive...


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I just ordered the same combo but can't seem to find the actual wheel weights. Do you recall the total weight of your rim, hub spoke combo ..?


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## carbine_275 (Nov 15, 2015)

fxr man said:


> I just ordered the same combo but can't seem to find the actual wheel weights. Do you recall the total weight of your rim, hub spoke combo ..?


Sorry, but I didn't bother to weigh them, and already have rotors and cassette mounted, along with tires/sealant.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

No worries, thanks for the reply.
I will weigh them in a couple of weeks when i receive them.
Looking to run 2.3 to 2.5 tires on them but save the weight over the farlow.


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## deck (Jul 5, 2008)

Not exactly the same build (Kitsuma, Boost and center-lock i9 Torch, and Lazer spokes) but my actually weights (with tape) are:

F: 769g
R: 906g

After about a year on them (my second set), I have zero complaints. Fit/finish, durability, performance, etc. are all awesome - esp. considering the price.


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

I wanted to give a shoutout to Nox and their awesome warranty and customer service. I built up a new bike in late March and decided to upgrade from my regular Chinese carbon wheels to some Nox Farlows to support a local company. I was stoked on the final product, and gutted when on my third ride on the wheels I completely destroyed the rear with a sharp edged rock hit. I called Nox the next day (Monday) to ask about a crash replacement and told them I would be in their area that weekend to ride. They told me to send them the wheel for warranty evaluation. They had it built up for me that Friday morning and covered all parts under their rim strike warranty, only charging me for the labor for the rebuild. Hands down some of the best customer service I've experienced in a while.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

*industry nine and nox.*

These were built for my new foes trail mixer.
Front hub i9 torch boost CL with i9 spokes laced to 29" Nox teocali rim.
Rear hub i9 torch boost CL with i9 spokes laced to Nox teocali 27.5 rim.

Valves installed but no rim tape.
Couldn't find these weights listed anywhere so thought i would post them.
740 front.
810 rear


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

NOX has the best overall product imo.

There is a set of NOX Kitsuma 29ers on Boost I9s for sale here:

Set of NOX Kitsuma 29er (carbon fiber 35 mm) w/ I9 boost hubs ID - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> NOX has the best overall product imo.
> 
> There is a set of NOX Kitsuma 29ers on Boost I9s for sale here:
> 
> Set of NOX Kitsuma 29er (carbon fiber 35 mm) w/ I9 boost hubs ID - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


Not biased at all considering you're trying sell a set:thumbsup:


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Yes they are mine. They are great wheels and the lifetime warranty really shows the confidence NOX has in them. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Yes they are mine. They are great wheels and the lifetime warranty really shows the confidence NOX has in them.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Lifetime crash replacement, 2 year warranty.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

Hey guys, I'm bringing back a few-month older thread with some questions:

The current weights on the Nox website show the Teocalli 29 wheels at 1479 grams with the I9 hubs. But a September 2017 review on MTBR and shows the wheelset with the same hubs at 1600 grams:

Nox Teocalli carbon wheels review - Mtbr.com

Are the weights on the Nox website exaggerated, or have they refined the design recently to make them lighter? There is always a little variation, but advertising 1489 and actually weighing out at 1600 is quite a jump, even if different spokes were used...

I'm looking at the Skyline 29 and the Teocalli 29 for my Niner RKT 9 RDO. My bike has 90mm of travel in the rear, and a 120mm fork. As a cross-country guy, I like to keep my wheels on the ground, I'm not jumping anything or doing anything crazy. But in Utah there can be some single track that dips through rock gardens of shale and its nice to have confidence that your wheels will hold up. I'd also like to run a 2.35" tire up front, and that might be pushing it with the 23mm Skyline. Any recommendations? The Teo might give the option of running an even wider tire like a 2.4 or maybe a 2.5, which probably wouldn't happen often for me, but might be a good option for the rare Moab trip. I mainly ride cross country and do a few races a year, climbing is my the focus on the steeps around these parts, but the shale-ridden trails of Park City also give me pause.

I'm also looking at the Enve ($$$$) and Reynolds ($$$). The Enve is advertising that their wide bead really helps prevent pinch flats and thus comfortably allows lower tire pressures and lighter tires without sidewall protection. How much truth is in that marketing pitch? The Enve M525s are 33.5mm external, 25mm internal, so doing the math that means 8.5mm total of bead width, so each bead is 4.25mm. The Nox Teo and Skylines have a total 6mm of bead width, so each bead is 3mm. They Reynolds have even thinner beads with their XC259 measuring 30 external and 25mm internal width. Any thoughts appreciated.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Well I just had a set of teo's built for my foes trailmixer. The front is 29" teo and a i9 torch 110 boost hub with 32 i9 spokes and weighs in at 810 grams with rim tape and valve stem. The rear is a 27.5 teo on boost hub and 32 i9 spokes and weighed in at 740 grams. Love these wheels.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

The Boz said:


> Hey guys, I'm bringing back a few-month older thread with some questions:
> 
> The current weights on the Nox website show the Teocalli 29 wheels at 1479 grams with the I9 hubs. But a September 2017 review on MTBR and shows the wheelset with the same hubs at 1600 grams:
> 
> ...


I'd call NOX directly and ask. As far as ENVE's, long story but I cracked (2) of their rims at the bead. It was the older design but more importantly, they refused to honor their warranty. That is when I switched to NOX and in my opinion, they are the best carbon wheels out there.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

The Boz said:


> Hey guys, I'm bringing back a few-month older thread with some questions:
> 
> The current weights on the Nox website show the Teocalli 29 wheels at 1479 grams with the I9 hubs. But a September 2017 review on MTBR and shows the wheelset with the same hubs at 1600 grams:
> 
> ...


Have you looked Light Bicycle as well?


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

fxr man said:


> Well I just had a set of teo's built for my foes trailmixer. The front is 29" teo and a i9 torch 110 boost hub with 32 i9 spokes and weighs in at 810 grams with rim tape and valve stem. The rear is a 27.5 teo on boost hub and 32 i9 spokes and weighed in at 740 grams. Love these wheels.


If you were running both wheels 29, that would definitely be an over 1620 gram set, not close to their advertised 1489 grams for the Teocalli wheels.

Both Enve and Nox have great crash warranties if and only if you are the original purchaser. But thanks for the testimonial on Nox wheels. Everyone I know that rides them loves them, so that says a LOT.

I have looked at Light Bicycle, I want to stay with a company that at least has their headquarters/customer service in the U.S.

What I'm thinking right now is that the Skylines might be just a touch too narrow, and the Teos are a bit heavy. And the Enve and Reynolds are just too damn expensive. I need to decide what is more important...


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi Boz,

I believe that wheelset used on the review you link was built with doubled-butted Sapim Race spokes, which are significantly heavier than the CX-Ray spokes we use on most of our builds and the spokes used for the weights published on our website. A 32h wheelset is about 100g difference between the two. That, combined with the weight of the valve and tape and there is your difference in weight.

You may be confused with what bead width means in this context. "Bead width" as used here means the inside to inside width of the rim, not the width bead lip itself. The width of the bead lip has no bearing on tire shape. You are correct that our bead lip is 3mm, which was is a bit wider than most to provide strength and resistance to occasional rock strikes. 

Thanks guys!
Brad - Nox Composites


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

Nox Teocalli 29 28H
DT Swiss 240S Straight Pull Boost 110 / 148
Sapim D-Light
Sapim Alu Polyax nipples
Weight without valves / rim tape : 1469g.

Impossible to achieve this weight with Industry Nine Torch hubs, worst hubs in the industry. I had a pair laced to Nox Skyline 29's : bearings of the rear hub toasted after 750 miles (water + dirt), replacement bearing after 300 miles. There is so much drag in the rear hub that on my Eagle cassette with the chain on the 10 - 16T sprocket, the crank just turns when pushing the bike. Same when the bike is in the bikestand for a wash : pedal backwards and the rear wheel just spins up.

I really love those wheels, best set so far. I do have to say that I just ordered a pair of Carbon-Ti X-Hubs SP 32H, Sapim CX-Ray and Duke Lucky Jack SLS rims, which would be +/- 1230g at 25.6 internal width. Rims are from what I heard from my wheel builder made at the same factory.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

All else equal, a Teocalli wheel is only 40g heavier than a Skyline wheel. You could always do a 28h Teocalli build and that brings you quite close to the 32h Skyline build. 

The Teocalli outsells the Skyline by a significant margin. 26mm is a great width for the majority of riders riding the majority of popular 2.25-2.35 tires.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

All the wheel sets I've had made by Nox are pretty much dead-on what their advertised weights were. Don't remember all the numbers but I've had 2 Kitsuma 27.5 sets, a Skyline 29 set, a Teo 29 set and a Teo/Skyline combo made and all sets were within 30 grams grams of what was stated. Great wheels, too.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

The Boz said:


> I have looked at Light Bicycle, I want to stay with a company that at least has their headquarters/customer service in the U.S.


They do:
https://us.lightbicycle.com/


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

My experience with the i9 hubs are very different then what you have had. This is my second set and I have just under 1500 miles on them and they are still perfect and I also run the eagle cassette and do not seem to have the drag issues you stated. That being said YMMV.
I'm very happy with my second set as my first set I sold to friend who is still running them trouble free. I weigh 190 and ride semi aggressive on a 6" trail bike for what it's worth. Also I had my weights backwards, if you look back a few post you can see the pics I posted on the scale.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

fxr man said:


> My experience with the i9 hubs are very different then what you have had. This is my second set and I have just under 1500 miles on them and they are still perfect and I also run the eagle cassette and do not seem to have the drag issues you stated. That being said YMMV.
> I'm very happy with my second set as my first set I sold to friend who is still running them trouble free. I weigh 190 and ride semi aggressive on a 6" trail bike for what it's worth. Also I had my weights backwards, if you look back a few post you can see the pics I posted on the scale.


I had the same experience as madcow above with Industry 9 bearings which is especially surprising since I live in the dry climate of SoCal. The good news of that equation is the shop just had to make a call and I9 sent new bearing for free. A friend of mine also had the same repeated issues, I think you're the lucky one.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Do you think it's i9's bearings and could another brand of bearings work better and last longer..?
If mine start to fail I'd rather replace them with something better.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

fxr man said:


> Do you think it's i9's bearings and could another brand of bearings work better and last longer..?
> If mine start to fail I'd rather replace them with something better.


3 guys had a problem, I wouldn't worry about. First I9 doesn't make the bearings, they get them from Enduro which are very well known in the industry and have a rep that goes with it. In any manufacturing there are going to be Lemons.

If this was an issue, there'd be a 1000 post thread about it, just look at the Sram Guide/heat debacle.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

NoxComposites said:


> All else equal, a Teocalli wheel is only 40g heavier than a Skyline wheel. You could always do a 28h Teocalli build and that brings you quite close to the 32h Skyline build.
> 
> The Teocalli outsells the Skyline by a significant margin. 26mm is a great width for the majority of riders riding the majority of popular 2.25-2.35 tires.


Well I pulled the trigger on a pair of 32 hole Teocallis. I'll report back in a few weeks! I like the idea of a wider rim that is stronger to handle the occasional spill or bad line throug a rock garden, the 26mm Teos seem just right for XC use and the occasional race. I also looked at the Light Bicycle wheels, they make a 24mm and a 28mm, I didn't see anything in between, but I just really liked Nox's warranty and lifetime crash replacement program so that won me over.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

TwoTone said:


> 3 guys had a problem, I wouldn't worry about. First I9 doesn't make the bearings, they get them from Enduro which are very well known in the industry and have a rep that goes with it. In any manufacturing there are going to be Lemons.
> 
> If this was an issue, there'd be a 1000 post thread about it, just look at the Sram Guide/heat debacle.


Do some research... I9 hubs are notorious for poor bearings (and yes, I have first hand experience) and they point the finger at Enduro while Enduro points the finger back at I9 (I've had discussions with both about the problem). Either way the tolerances are getting out of whack and it has been a long-standing issue with their hubs. As others have stated, I9's customer service is excellent so they will fix the issue. It is interesting to note that Chris King went thru this little game until they finally had enough and now have ALL of their bearings made IN HOUSE. You just don't hear about any bearing related issues with their hubs. Coincidence??? I think not. But, hey... believe what you want!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

It's funny, after having a couple sets of NOX rims that are 30mm internal width, I could never imagine going with anything less. Traction, extra comfort, more rigidity, etc. Just love the wider rims. But the main reason for my visit is that after reading all these recent posts, I realized that I am going on 3 years with my Farlow/Chris King 29er wheels! I ride a minimum of 50 miles per week on very aggressive single track with lots of rocks and jumps. My rims only have a few knicks and scratches, and have never needed re-truing. Wheel set was 800g front/950g rear. +/- 50g for additional tape and sealant. I always run 32 spokes since I'm well over 200#. I recently built up a new set of Nextie 40mm (external) wheels on Hopes but in 27.5 size. I love the way the 40s give my Ardent 2.4s a wider (but still round) profile. I will say however, they were not as easy to build up as the NOX. The NOX were easier to true and came into roundness easier. The finish was a lot nicer on the NOX, and the angles of the spokes going into the nipples was much less drastic as compared to the Nextie. The assymetric drilling of the NOX rims is a beautiful thing! Both wheels have been doing great, but there's just something about my NOX set that makes them my favorite. I'd easily put these up against an ENVE set.


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## liv2_mountain_bike (Nov 7, 2011)

Gman086 said:


> Chris King went thru this little game until they finally had enough and now have ALL of their bearings made IN HOUSE. You just don't hear about any bearing related issues with their hubs. Coincidence??? I think not. But, hey... believe what you want!


Do you even need to service King components?! Just kidding, but seriously, I never have to service my King hubs. I've taken them apart to inspect them and the grease still looks new and everything is smooth as a baby's bottom.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Enduro bearings are middle of the road. I've gone down that road before, and have moved on. 

If you want something truly set and forget, get actual, authentic NTN or NSK bearings. 

If anyone wants some cheap Enduro 6802s, holler at me. I've got 6 of them I'd sell for $20 total, shipped.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## hookem34 (Jun 2, 2016)

*NOX Farlow*

LOVING my NOX Farlow's builit up with Project 321 hubs. Not overly harsh and absolutely rail!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Enduro bearings are middle of the road. I've gone down that road before, and have moved on.
> 
> If you want something truly set and forget, get actual, authentic NTN or NSK bearings.
> 
> ...


 Totally agree with you about the Enduro bearings!! Middle of the road if that! I use all Phil Wood bearings. NTN bearings With Phil Wood grease inside and Phil Wood designed outer seals. They definitely are little pricey 
But worth it in my book. Another good Bearing is the Bearing that project 321 now uses and Hadley black seal Japanese bearing. Enduro is the reason project 321 switched to the black seal Japanese brand. I like my Nox Teocalli rims but Definitely the most Flexey of all my six sets of carbon rims. My light bicycle rims that I was using for cross country 28 mm wide with straight pull DT Swiss hubs weighing in at 1378g was my favorite light set of wheels, Sold them to a friend who is still using them with not a problem. I use the Nox Teo now for cross country with Project 321 hubs. My derby rims Are the most stiff with onyx hubs. I now have three sets of Light Bicycle rims and will only use them in the future. It's a no-brainer for me !!


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi all, just making sure you are all aware that we are giving away a custom-built wheelset on March 31. Be sure and sign up for your virtual raffle tickets here: https://goo.gl/forms/1WPFmdHk5lKwXNUY2

Bonus tickets can be obtained by participating in our #noxonehitwonder challenge. Check out our facebook or Instragram feeds for more info. facebook.com/NoxComposites


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Update: I ended up going with Knight Composites and really like those. I did use NOX on my Cross bike and they clearly told me over two calls and a follow-up call after I was having issues the rims were for tubeless. That is why I was looking at NOX again. Well, it turns out that the A36D rims I used on my Cross bike, are clearly not a good tubeless design. Any tire from 25-40, simply falls away from the bead if deflated enough. That was annoying enough for me to get the Knight rims this time. So now I need to get new rims for my Cross bike that are TRULY tubeless...maybe 19-21 internal width. I'm still annoyed I got suckered in by those dumb A36Ds. 

So I got the Knights for my SB4.5 (26 internal width) and they works superbly for my 2.35 tires. I would not go any wider for that tire size.


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## NoxComposites (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey Flyer, When using a tire width somewhat close to the rim width (25mm on a 20mm) it's no surprise a deflated tire would have a tendency to fall away from the bead. This is because the majority of 25mm tires have a natural bead width less than 20mm. If we changed the drop channel width/shape to compensate for this effect, you'd have a really hard time mounting the tires. The solution is simple, just add a layer of tape to achieve the tightness you prefer. We designed the road/cx rims to keep the BSD on the lower edge of the ISO spec and have a drop channel width such that you can mount tires by hand (on the side of the road for example). Also, remember than unlike mountain tubeless, most road/cx users need to run 2+ layers of tape anyway to deal with higher air pressures. So if you want (or need) a tighter fit with the particular tire you are running, just add a layer of tape (each layer adds about 10mils to the BSD and weighs only about 2g). On the other hand, if you are racing cross and want a wide rim platform and ultra lightweight, tubulars really are the way to go (check out the Zolder rim).


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Sadly, I had mentioned that this was for a Tarmac road build when I called, and I'd be using 25 Schwalbe Pro Ones. Now they are on my Cross bike with 40 Gravelkings...they will still fall away but I'm meticulous about replacing sealant, checking my tires, carrying tubes, and carrying a frame pump on my gravel rides. I guess that rim was not designed with a ridge or shelf, like most tubeless rims now are. I have used two layers of tape before giving up on the road bike. They now have 40 Gravekings on. Just need to eventually replace them with a rim/wheelset that has a shelf or ridge profile. Thanks for the tips.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

NoxComposites said:


> Hi all, just making sure you are all aware that we are giving away a custom-built wheelset on March 31. Be sure and sign up for your virtual raffle tickets here: https://goo.gl/forms/1WPFmdHk5lKwXNUY2
> 
> Bonus tickets can be obtained by participating in our #noxonehitwonder challenge. Check out our facebook or Instragram feeds for more info. facebook.com/NoxComposites


Do you know how hard it is for a 58 year old Dude to try and make up Rap lines? I did it but it made me cringe just a bit.


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## SpeedyChix (Apr 17, 2005)

gone


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## kumquat (Dec 5, 2014)

I've owned some Teocallis in the past.. They were priced decent and were a solid set of wheels. Fast forward about 3 years, I went to buy a 2nd set for my new bike and they increased their pricing by quite a bit. There's nothing that special about NOX wheels and their decals are cheap/ugly. I felt like it was a budget friendly asian made carbon wheel with a NOX decal on it. Not sure why they increased pricing so much.. Went with NOBL this time, their pricing was much more reasonable and the baked on water line decals give it a much higher quality look.


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## Ruckus99ss (Aug 31, 2014)

ANYone put a 29x2.6 on a teocalli?


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## jjc155 (Aug 9, 2011)

I had a set of Nox wheels (teocali front and skyline rear) build up by Lacemine29 last year for my pivot mach429trail. Wheels have been completely trouble free and have been everything I wanted when I upgraded to carbon from alumimum wheels. Have put about 500miles on them and am very pleased.

J-


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Nox worked with me on a rear wheel build with a King hub this past winter. Built up for this season. When I factored in what shipping and extra labor cost to have a King built up on a cheaper chi carbon rim the percent difference over the Nox build was not that much different. I ordered during a non-busy time of year and got a nice price. Since its really hard getting any kind of deal on a King hub alone, the math worked out nicely with regards to the end price of the Nox rim.

Knowing I'd not have to deal with any major hassle of going chi carbon if there was a problem, and the Nox crash replacement piece, I went with Nox. My time is worth a fair amount.

The wheel set up well tubeless, except IIRC, the tape peeled and I replaced it with my own favorite. Maxxis tires. After a number of hard miles its worked out very well. I'd buy from them again.

The build was a rear, with a Farlow, 2/1.8 spokes, brass nips, King hub.


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## 2g5mk (Nov 13, 2015)

For anyone interested. I have a pair of Nox Skyline 29 28h Wheels: DT Swiss 240 ISO 6 bolt hubs (15x110, 12x148), with Sapim CX-ray spokes. They are for sale for 1000.00.


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