# Jagwire vs Shimano cables + housing



## Lab Worker (Mar 22, 2004)

Anyone have any interesting comments on this?

I've always used Shimano cables and housing, except for on BMX bikes, really flexy v brake frames, or mechanical disks, where I'll use Jagwire non-compression housing.

I know some mechanics swear by Jag, any reason?

I use Shimano SP40 shift housing with plastic ferrules, and a 1.1mm cable, and Shimano sp50 brake housing with brass(?) ferrules and a 1.6mm cable.

I've found that non-shimano metal ferrules will creak in a lot of frames, but its very rare that I see a Shimano metal ferrule creaking.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Lab Worker said:


> Anyone have any interesting comments on this?


One comment, I'm about 98% certain that Jagwire manufacturers housing for Shimano (along with Avid, Schwinn braided and others).

I don't know what brand ferrules I have in my box, and I've found that some creak and some don't. I too have liking for nylon ferrules, but the best solution I've found to avoid the creaking issue is to run full length housing.


----------



## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah, it's all Jagwire. Just a matter of the specs. Shimano uses 4mm derailleur housing and Jagwire is mostly 5mm. They both work fine.


----------



## sodade (Jan 28, 2004)

What about the XTR der. stuff?


----------



## jennasdad (Jan 12, 2004)

Seems I recently read where Shimano has new - improved of course - cables/housing. I switched from Avid Flakjackets, which were very stiff and abrasive (ate the paint on my frame) to the much softer and more flexible Shimano. No lose of performance though.


----------



## Lab Worker (Mar 22, 2004)

The new Shimano housings are supposed to be impregnated with a 'special' lube to cut friction by 10%. I think they're SP41 as well, so they'll need their own ferrules.

The Avid Flakjackets, as well as all the Jagwire non-compression Kevlar braided housing, is slightly different to shimano brake housing, and defiantly works better in high load situations, like mechanical disks or bmx brakes. Rather than the internal filament being coiled around the cable, there are many filaments and they run lengthwise, parallel to the cable, the same as derailleur housing. The problem with derailleur housing is that under a high load (such as pulling on a brake lever) the plastic coating on the outside is not strong enough to stop the filaments from ‘exploding’ thought the plastic. The Jagwire (or Avid, GT, Promax….) Kevlar braided housing uses the Kevlar to hold the filaments together, giving you non compression housing without it blowing out. You HAVE to use the correct ferrules on the ends of the housing though, otherwise bad things will happen.

I just bought my first road bike (’04 Specialized Allez Elite) and it came with Jagwire SP36 gear and SP50 brake housing, with Jagwire cables. My first impressions are less than stellar, but I’ll give them a fair try before switching over to the big S.

Say what you want about Shimanos ‘new, improved’ products, and their planned obsolesces, but the products that they make, with a very few exceptions, work really, really well.


----------



## jennasdad (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the good information. Couldn't agree more about Shimano - the dig was at the everything "new and improved" world we live in. What is the designation you refer to - SP41- and is there some reference information to the sizes these represent (if size is what they have to do with)? Thanks.


----------



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

*Is it supple?*



Lab Worker said:


> The new Shimano housings are supposed to be impregnated with a 'special' lube to cut friction by 10%. I think they're SP41 as well, so they'll need their own ferrules.


The one thing that really turns me off with the current "compressionless" brake housings (i.e. Jagwire Rattler) is that it is extremely stiff, to the point that it doesn't flex easily with suspension movement. I've actually had it "push through" the cable guide rather than flex upon compression. It's the main reason I've stuck with generic sprial wound housing.

Has this new Shimano stuff solved that problem?


----------



## Lab Worker (Mar 22, 2004)

f*nætik said:


> The one thing that really turns me off with the current "compressionless" brake housings (i.e. Jagwire Rattler) is that it is extremely stiff, to the point that it doesn't flex easily with suspension movement. I've actually had it "push through" the cable guide rather than flex upon compression. It's the main reason I've stuck with generic spiral wound housing.
> 
> Has this new Shimano stuff solved that problem?


No, the new Shimano brake stuff is not non-compression, it is the same spiral bound stuff as always, just with the new low friction coating. I think if there is anymore 'new improved' housing from Shimano the cables will actually have negative friction, and the shifters and deralleurs will be trying to hold onto a cable as is wriggles around like an eel.

All the non compression housing I've seen (including Shimano shift housing) is quite stiff, and I agree that its really hard to use on suspension bikes. What I've found that works well is this:

Take an old V-brake canti stud (the kind that came with your full suspension frame that you've neve used), and cut the internally threaded part off so that you have a tube about 15mm long with an internal thread running the whole distance. Find two barrel adjusters that thread into your canti stud. Old bmx gyro cables usually have some to give, but make sure they don't have a cut down one side to remove the cable from. The best ones are from single pivot crap brakes that come on the front of BMX dirt/street bikes (dirt/street bikes are usually designed to only use a rear brake, but by most countries laws must be fitted with two brakes...hence a cheep brake on the front, the manufacturer expects it to be removed after purchase). Trim the two barrel adjusters down and thread them into each end of your cantistud...now you can run non compression cable into one end, and nice flexible black compression cable out of the other. If you take a look at your bike, you'll probably find that you can make quite a tidy job of this by attaching the cantistud somewhere by one of your pivots on the mainframe, and another one attached on the swingarm. Your mechanical disks will have new life breathed into them, with snappy, positive lever feel, and there is still flexibility in the housing. To be honest, this trick can look REALLY ugly, but if done cleanly and neatly it can go totally unnoticed.

f*nætik: have you seen / tried Trac Pearls?








I've never fitted them, but a friend of mine has&#8230;.they certainly look awesome, and they seam to work as far as being a non compression cable, but although they flex and can form quite sharp curves, they are quite stiff and I don't know how well they would handle the constant movement of a double bouncer.

As far as the 'SP' for housing sizes, I don't know what it stands for (I'm guessing its an abbreviation), but the number refers to the diameter of the housing, in millimetres (ie: sp41 is 41mm OD). Its essential that your ferrules are the same size as your housing, and different housings are designed to work with different sized cables (ie: shimano SP41 gear housing is designed for a 1.1mm cable, shimano SP50 gear housing is designed for a 1.2mm cable.)

Sorry for the novel&#8230;.and no, I'm not as big of a geek as the above text would make you think 

I can't believe I just wrote this much on bits of black plastic.....


----------



## Rollin'in'Zona (Mar 21, 2004)

Lab Worker said:


> Kevlar braided housing uses the Kevlar to hold the filaments together, giving you non compression housing without it blowing out. You HAVE to use the correct ferrules on the ends of the housing though, otherwise bad things will happen.


What sort of bad things?

How do you know if ferrules are correct? Fit?


----------



## Lab Worker (Mar 22, 2004)

Rollin'in'Zona said:


> What sort of bad things?
> 
> How do you know if ferrules are correct? Fit?


If the ferrules are incorrect the length-wise filliments of the housing will peice their way though the ferrule and poke out the other side, with your brakes feeling crappier by the day.

You will know the ferrules are correct because they come with the housing. They are black and have 'Jagwire' written on them. They have a large distance between where the housing ends and where the ferrule meets the frame. There are special 'Point of Power' ferrules to use with brakes like the Avid mechainicals which normally do not use ferrules.


----------



## dyg2001 (Jul 31, 2004)

So you can't just use normal 5mm brass ferrules with Jagwire Ripcord housing? I was going to buy some in bulk (25 foot rolls) and will need ferrules.


----------



## massmang (Apr 18, 2006)

Lab Worker said:


> No, the new Shimano brake stuff is not non-compression, it is the same spiral bound stuff as always, just with the new low friction coating. I think if there is anymore 'new improved' housing from Shimano the cables will actually have negative friction, and the shifters and deralleurs will be trying to hold onto a cable as is wriggles around like an eel.


LMAO.....


----------

