# Another emtb article from MBA. Whatcha think?



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

https://mbaction.com/debunking-electric-bike-myths/


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Addressed many points. I think they got it right.


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## Zinfan (Jun 6, 2006)

With a name like Mountain Bike Action it is no wonder they find the emtb's go slower downhill but I find in my case I go about the same speed but for longer stretches as my legs are fresher after the climb. I'm not hopping off bumps or catching air at every chance so there is that. 

While I appreciate the article I hope they do a follow up with industry people, land managers and others who have ideas and opinions about emtb access. Just talking to riders won't advance the cause IMO. Thanks for the link.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

levity said:


> :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> Addressed many points. I think they got it right.


Well, they didn't get the power output right, stating most ebikes put out 250w of power. That's pretty well summed up here in the "what's a watt" thread.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gutch said:


> https://mbaction.com/debunking-electric-bike-myths/


They are selling an e-bike mag so of course they are pro.

https://hi-torque.com/product/electric-bike-action/
https://hi-torque.com/product/mountain-bike-action-2/


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

vikb said:


> They are selling an e-bike mag so of course they are pro.
> 
> https://hi-torque.com/product/electric-bike-action/
> https://hi-torque.com/product/mountain-bike-action-2/


Check out Hi-Torque Media Group's publications. Braaaaap!!!


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

I don't remember the last time that magazine was critical of anything that put money in their pockets. No surprise here.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I used to read mba back when riders didn’t know which way to put their helmets on. The point is, they’ve been around awhile and they’ve seen everything. The ENTIRE bike industry is behind ebikes. To think that they are going away like a fad is futile. The people I’ve encountered on emtbs are nice, genuine mtbr type people. I just ask that fellow cyclist have an open mind to emtbrs. I personally am not a bike snob and wave to anyone on two wheels. Emtbs may not take over normal bikes, but they will make a strong presence. Will emtbrs care if mtbrs ride on their trails? This could happen. Also, when joe blow bike shop needs to start selling ebikes to stay afloat, are you going to abandon them?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I don't remember the last time that magazine was critical of anything that put money in their pockets. No surprise here.


 Viola - ebikes. It's big money, and there is no denying the fun factor. I don't know anyone getting paid to ride. Most everyone does it for fun and to be outdoors. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Do you honestly think a few emtbrs in vast Pisgah Forest would create major issues? Look at the demographics of the buyers. Older, wealthy, and experienced.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Gutch said:


> I used to read mba back when riders didn't know which way to put their helmets on. The point is, they've been around awhile and they've seen everything. The ENTIRE bike industry is behind ebikes. To think that they are going away like a fad is futile.


Segways never went away. You can still go buy one. Industry is behind ebikes, but that doesn't mean people who ride mountain bikes want ebikes. It is a different customer because they are different things.

Embts being a big thing? Well MBA is a magazine, and that article never made it to their print or online version of their magazine. Why do you think that is?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

tahoebeau said:


> Segways never went away. You can still go buy one. Industry is behind ebikes, but that doesn't mean people who ride mountain bikes want ebikes. It is a different customer because they are different things. Embts being a big thing? Well MBA is a magazine, and that article never made it to their print or online version of their magazine. Why do you think that is?


Emtb customers are NOT Mtb customers? That's the funniest **** I've heard!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Gutch said:


> Viola - ebikes. It's big money, and there is no denying the fun factor. I don't know anyone getting paid to ride. Most everyone does it for fun and to be outdoors. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Do you honestly think a few emtbrs in vast Pisgah Forest would create major issues? Look at the demographics of the buyers. Older, wealthy, and experienced.


Maybe for now, but what about the future? I imagine people will buy them to start on with no intention of switching to a non-motorized; so younger and inexperienced. People are going to be attracted to the "easier" aspect. And if they do take off, we'll see cheap Walmart ebikes hitting the trails. Hopefully they'll break on their first run. One reason we don't see a lot of Walmart bikes on the trails is that the people who buy those don't want to pedal much, especially up hills.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Gutch said:


> Emtb customers are NOT Mtb customers? That's the funniest **** I've heard!


Segway customers are customers of walking shoes. So by that logic people who buy walking shoes are also Segway customers. Why aren't there more segways around then?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

tahoebeau said:


> Segway customers are customers of walking shoes. So by that logic people who buy walking shoes are also Segway customers.


Not seeing any logic at all in that statement.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Not seeing any logic at all in that statement.


Makes sense to me.

People who buy an embt probably ride mountain bikes, but the vast majority of people who ride mountain bikes are not interested buying an embt. People who buy segways probably walk in walking shoes, but the vast majority of people who buy walking shoes are not interested buying a Segway.

Works for a lot of things. For example, people who by planes probably buy cars, but the vast majority of people who buy cars are not interested in buying a plane.


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## Ryder (Aug 20, 2004)

Yet here in Europe apparently up to 30% of bikes sold over €4000 are emtbs so I would argue quite a few mtb riders are interested. I think the point is though that most emtb riders are experienced mtb riders already not that most mtb riders will become emtb riders.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Ryder said:


> Yet here in Europe apparently up to 30% of bikes sold over €4000 are emtbs so I would argue quite a few mtb riders are interested. I think the point is though that most emtb riders are experienced mtb riders already not that most mtb riders will become emtb riders.


Do you mean 30% of bikes sold over $4000 are ebikes or specifically they are embts? I ask, beccause I have yet to see any data separating emtbs from ebikes. If you have a link to that data, that would be cool to see. Also, I wonder what % of bikes in general sold are over $4k?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Gutch said:


> I used to read mba back when riders didn't know which way to put their helmets on. The point is, they've been around awhile and they've seen everything. The ENTIRE bike industry is behind ebikes. To think that they are going away like a fad is futile. The people I've encountered on emtbs are nice, genuine mtbr type people. I just ask that fellow cyclist have an open mind to emtbrs. I personally am not a bike snob and wave to anyone on two wheels. Emtbs may not take over normal bikes, but they will make a strong presence. Will emtbrs care if mtbrs ride on their trails? This could happen. Also, when joe blow bike shop needs to start selling ebikes to stay afloat, are you going to abandon them?


 E mt bike trails? I guess I'll wait.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

the article is stupid. majorly 

for a few reasons but I will mention this

1) it has a motor. can't hide that fact with lots of words skirting the issue

2) and the part about 'Not gonna see an e-mtb roosting around' while they
have a PICTURE of someone making a HUGE ROOSTY corner.

so what if a normal MTB could also do the same roost, the point is, they are trying to promote ebikes they do a bad job. 

FFS it is a crap article written by numbnuts


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

tahoebeau said:


> Segway customers are customers of walking shoes. So by that logic people who buy walking shoes are also Segway customers. Why aren't there more segways around then?


Riders who buy these brands aren't interested in emtbs? Why are they making them?
Specialized
Pivot
Commencal
Scott
Trek
Giant
Rocky Mountain
Lapierre
Cannondale
Felt
Kona
Orbea
Diamondback
Cube
Focus
Raleigh
Nicolai
Bianchi
Fuji
Mondraker
BMC
Haibike
Surface 604
Bulls
Norco
Moustache
Haro
Merida
Devinnci
Motobecane
Orange
Pinarello


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

Gutch said:


> Riders who buy these brands aren't interested in emtbs? Why are they making them?...


Certainly not for narrow minded folks.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

1 - No, they're not motorcycles. A stupid statement on all sides. 

2 - Yes, I think they will lead to trail closures, for emtbs though, not mtbs. Not now, because there are very few, and mostly old, reasonably responsible existing mtbers are buying them. Once they are cheaper, more powerful, and in the hands of less responsible riders, who probably aren't mountain bikers, it'll start to sour some land managers towards them. Not all land managers everywhere ofc, but it'll happen.

3 - Another stupid statement, has no relevance. Unless it's a race, there is no cheating. 

4 - Possibly? A motorized bicycle will allow you to ride faster. Whether it's too fast depends on a lot of parameters. Type of trail, your skills, if it's empty, if it's full of grandmas walking fifi, etc.

Land managers only care about #4 on the list, which might lead to #2. Emotional arguments for or against are only valid on the internet, or in ebike marketing, not in the real world.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Gutch said:


> Riders who buy these brands aren't interested in emtbs? Why are they making them?


It's the bike industry dude! They can only survive by selling us expensive trinkets we don't need. :thumbsup:


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Gutch said:


> Riders who buy these brands aren't interested in emtbs? Why are they making them?
> Specialized
> Pivot
> Commencal
> ...


My guess is that they are all racing to the party not wanting to be late but in the end, a lot will drop out. I don't think the market will be big enough for that many players. Here is the Average price of bicycle sales in the European Union (EU-28) in 2016, by country* (in euros); looks like an overall average of less than 500 euros.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...erage-price-in-the-european-union-by-country/

So $4000+ bikes are already a very small niche, $4000+ mountain bikes even smaller, then if $4000+ embts are just part of that, doesn't look like a big enough market for so many players. I'm sure the "e" aspect will come down some but the mtb parts won't, unless they are just lower quality.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

at the trailhead I most often frequent, I'd say the majority of bikes are well over $4,000. The only eMTBs I've seen there were demo bikes. The only person I know who owns/rides an ebike locally .. is a former Giro d'Italia winner, and ex pro MTBer lol. And now I own one too, so I know of 2 people with one - ha (been MTBing and racing, and MTB advocating etc for longer than most MTBR posters have been alive).

Mountain Bike Action. Last time I read that 1mm-deep magazine, Reagan was the POTUS. I'm sure there is someone on staff there who can articulate the usual common sense rationale though I'm not going to read it.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Harryman said:


> It's the bike industry dude! They can only survive by selling us expensive trinkets we don't need. :thumbsup:


I know. Being sarcastic. Are you riding a YT now?


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## Twimby (Jun 27, 2013)

BCsaltchucker said:


> at the trailhead I most often frequent, I'd say the majority of bikes are well over $4,000. The only eMTBs I've seen there were demo bikes. The only person I know who wons/rides an ebike locally .. is a former Giro d'Italia winner, and ex pro MTBer lol. And now I own one too, so I know of 2 people with one - ha (been MTBing and racing, and MTB advocating etc for longer than most MTBR posters have been alive).
> 
> Mountain Bike Action. Last time I read that 1mm-deep magazine, Reagan was the POTUS. I'm sure there is someone on staff there who can articulate the usual common sense rationale though I'm not going to read it.


Would that make the other person an ebike "Ryder"


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## Ryder (Aug 20, 2004)

tahoebeau said:


> Do you mean 30% of bikes sold over $4000 are ebikes or specifically they are embts? I ask, beccause I have yet to see any data separating emtbs from ebikes. If you have a link to that data, that would be cool to see. Also, I wonder what % of bikes in general sold are over $4k?







At about 3:26 (don't watch the whole thing it will be bad for your blood pressure  I have read other stuff mentioning 30% but can't find it right now.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Gutch said:


> I know. Being sarcastic. Are you riding a YT now?


Not yet, considering it.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Really really bad article. Myths?

1) Yes ebikes have motors. And currently there's no enforcement on the wattage on the trail.
2) Yes ebikes will lead to trail closures. Just from the mere fact they have motors and look like mountain bikes.
3) Cheating? possibly, but no one really cares if it's cheating or not. What most of us really care about is keeping our trails.
4) Cuttoff? Easily hackable/modifiable. The bike industry keeps pushing more powerful bikes...

If this article as done anything, it's made the ebike crowd look even more out of touch with the rest of the mountain biking crowed as to what our concerns really are.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Harryman said:


> Not yet, considering it.


I ordered a Capra Carbon. Good value for the money. I need a big Mtn bike. Gonna be doing some traveling- campering and hitting the occasional bike park. Perfect bike for this and rowdy downs. Arrives August 1st.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Lemonaid said:


> Really really bad article. Myths?
> 
> 1) Yes ebikes have motors. And currently there's no enforcement on the wattage on the trail.
> 2) Yes ebikes will lead to trail closures. Just from the mere fact they have motors and look like mountain bikes.
> ...


Your concerns are my concerns. I'm just not going to speculate until actual proof of said trail closures. That will, if anything ban emtbs, not Mtb's. Too big of a scene to cut out.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Gutch said:


> I ordered a Capra Carbon. Good value for the money. I need a big Mtn bike. Gonna be doing some traveling- campering and hitting the occasional bike park. Perfect bike for this and rowdy downs. Arrives August 1st.


Indeed, great bike for the money and lots of rowdy downs around here.


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