# Pedals Hitting Stuff & Control Issues



## macabra11 (Mar 25, 2010)

OK, so I am a newb and need some help. My wife and I have been mountain biking for just about 2 months now and are running into some of the same issues. We both have cage pedals on our bikes and keep hitting them (while pedaling) on either objects on the trail or on steep walled singletrack. This is especially common when climbing uphill on singletrack. We'll be pedaling and get to some narrow, deep singletrack and hit the ground with the pedals which immediately causes us to stop. Needless to say, this sucks going uphill. Is this common? What do people do to remedy the situation?

Secondly, I am having problems controlling my front tire, especially when climbing. I look drunk most of the time from how much I am moving around instead of just riding straight. This is also a big momentum killer when climbing. I just find it really difficult to stay on the singletrack. I am big guy (6'3" 265) with long arms, and was wondering if maybe my handlebars were too narrow, causing me to have my hands in closer together rather than shoulder width apart???? I don't know, just a thought. Maybe it is just because I haven't developed those muscles to stabilize myself yet.  

Both of these issues are big confidence busters though, so I would like to do what I can to get rid of the problems.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

I think it is pretty much impossible to stop low speed wobbling or weaving. I know I do it, especially on slow up hill climbs. Wider bars might help make you more stable, but I doubt it will completely go away. 

Are you having the problem with the pedals because your feet are not actually in the cages and they are dangling and hitting the ground? Might help know what your bikes are to make a good pedal recommendation.


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## macabra11 (Mar 25, 2010)

I guess I got my terminology wrong in my original post. They are not cage pedals, they are just normal metal pedals with no straps or anything like that. Just stock pedals I guess. But no, nothing hangs off the pedal to cause it to hit. It is that we are actually pedaling into the sides of the singletrack because it is so steep or there are rocks etc. jutting up/out.

I am riding a stock '09 Konda Cinder Cone 22' frame, and my wife is riding an '07 (I think) Gary Fisher Marlin SM frame.


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

The pedal bottoming thing can be fairly common. I can't say that I've ever been in "deep singletrack", ie a rut so deep that my pedals hit, but tagging rocks is common. If this is the case, you will end up with 3 options. You can either (1) just hit the rock and keep going, (2) learn to see it coming and choose a different line or, (3) learn to time your pedal strokes to avoid said rocks. For option 3, ratcheting your pedals works quite well. These skills will come with time. If you are in deep ruts where you have no choice, my best suggestion is to find a different trail.

As far as the front tire issue goes, more weight on the front end can help. lean forward on the climb. This is also a typical newb issue. If more weight doesn't help, it may just be a balance issue that will eventually correct itself as you ride more. You can practice things like riding as slow as possible, track stands, and tight turns for balance, but it really just takes time.

The good news is that neither of these issues are uncommon for beginners. The bad news (or good depending on your love of the sport) is that you mostly have to just keep riding and they will typically work themselves out with experience.

Happy trails!


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

Don't use cage pedals. Invest in clipless pedals and shoes, they really help for power and control. It's impossible to prevent all pedal-ground strikes, it just happens.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

you'll need to learn how to ratchet your pedals when climbing technical/rocky bits.....meaning when you see on the downstroke that one of you feet is gonna clip an object 'spin' (ratchet) the pedal back a bit...

basically it's a timing thing...just takes practice....it will become second nature....really worth learning..

wobbly front will be:
a.) you getting accustomed to your rig.
b.) lean forward more...try to keep your forearms parallel to the ground...scoot up on the saddle (and hover if it's really steep). If you start having problems with traction in the rear try pulling back (not up) on the downstroke...

this all simply takes practice...and it's pretty hard in the beginning....just keep at it. 

edit:..or actually what 'suprcivic' wrote


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Hopping_Rocks said:


> Don't use cage pedals. Invest in clipless pedals and shoes, they really help for power and control. It's impossible to prevent all pedal-ground strikes, it just happens.


Ignore clipless pedals.

Invest in a pair of 5.10 cycling shoes and kona wah wah pedals, they help more for power and control AND let you jump off in a crash.

handlebar wander climbing hills is common, your balance will improve and it will eventually go away.

pedal strikes happen, avoid the ruts, if you can't then ratchet.

Most of these things come with practice.


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## macabra11 (Mar 25, 2010)

Riding more is NOT bad news, it's good news! I hate, really hate, climbing hills. BUT I love when I get to the top without stopping and then get to come downhill. That makes it all worth it. 

I will have to try the ratcheting technique the next time I get into some rough patches. That is a good tip.

At this point I am really opposed to going clipless. I know all the benefits, but I thoroughly enjoy being able to put a foot down (this happens a lot) especially on techy donwhill stuff that I don't totally know how to navigate. I just need more saddle time and confidence boosting.


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

As far as clipless goes, do it on your own schedule, but don't rule them out entirely. After a couple of rides on them (especially if you have multi release cleats) you'll be able to put a foot down (dab) every bit as fast as a regular platform pedal. That being said, do what suits you best.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

macabra11 said:


> At this point I am really opposed to going clipless. I know all the benefits, but I thoroughly enjoy being able to put a foot down


What CaveGiant suggests is an excellent alternative: flat-soled shoes with pinned pedals. That's how I've rolled for years. Right now I'm running 5.10 shoes along with Shimano MX30 pedals, but there are many similar options out there. Do not ever feel compelled to go clipless. You'll get "the lecture" every now and then. Just nod-and-smile.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

A longer stem can help with the front wheel wandering while climbing. So can bar ends, although I find once I've started a climb on the bar ends, I'm pretty committed to whatever gear I'm in, and the control's not as good.

It makes descending a little harder, though. It's all about finding something that gives you the right balance. And if a longer stem takes you out of the range of reaches that are comfortable and healthy for your back, it's counterproductive. Lowering your handlebars can be helpful as well, and doesn't require a new stem. So you could try that first.

You can't buy better skills. But I think the short stems that are in vogue right now interfere with developing them.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

CHUM said:


> ...when you see on the downstroke that one of you feet is gonna clip an object 'spin' (ratchet) the pedal back a bit...
> 
> basically it's a timing thing...
> 
> ... b.) lean forward more...


Just what I was thinking.
- you need to be aware of where your pedal/foot is in relation to whatever is on the ground. Ratchet or stop pedaling for a split second if that helps you prevent hitting stuff with the pedal. Tricky if the singletrack is sunken deep below the edges.

- You need weight on both wheels both going up and going down. Going up, lean forward to keep weight on the front too.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

When climbing, keep your upper body relaxed. Every muscle that you tense up will take away oxygen from the muscles that need it most, the legs.
Focus on smooth circles when you pedal.
Scoot forward on your saddle.
Move your upper body a tad bit closer to the handlebars to keep weight on the front wheel.
Keep your elbows in a bit, relaxed, and parallel to the ground.
Don't look up at the top of the hill you are trying to crest. Not only will you get a krink in your neck, it restricts your airflow a little bit, and can also be mentally discouraging seeing how much further you have to go.
If you keep your head lower, neck relaxed, focus on the terrain, you will magically appear at the top. Trust me, the mental part is a huge deal.
Breath smoothly and deeply. You need to get that o2 flowing. I used to have a problem of holding my breath durring tech sections, and didn't realise I was doing it for a while.
Try not to stand up out of the saddle and mash away as it will expend alot more energy and traction will suffer.
Try to keep a light grip on the bars, and keep your fingers off the brake levers. You won't need em too much going up unless it is really techy.
Most important, as I mentioned, keep your whole upper body relaxed. Even your facial muscles.
Weight towards the front of the bike.
Head down, and you'll get there so much easier and faster it will amaze you.
I'm bigger than you, and try to focus on these things I have mentioned here. My friends are all amazed at how well I can climb for being such a huge, out of shape looking dude.


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## dhambrick (Mar 30, 2010)

macabra11 said:


> OK, so I am a newb and need some help. My wife and I have been mountain biking for just about 2 months now and are running into some of the same issues. We both have cage pedals on our bikes and keep hitting them (while pedaling) on either objects on the trail or on steep walled singletrack. This is especially common when climbing uphill on singletrack. We'll be pedaling and get to some narrow, deep singletrack and hit the ground with the pedals which immediately causes us to stop. Needless to say, this sucks going uphill. Is this common? What do people do to remedy the situation?
> 
> Secondly, I am having problems controlling my front tire, especially when climbing. I look drunk most of the time from how much I am moving around instead of just riding straight. This is also a big momentum killer when climbing. I just find it really difficult to stay on the singletrack. I am big guy (6'3" 265) with long arms, and was wondering if maybe my handlebars were too narrow, causing me to have my hands in closer together rather than shoulder width apart???? I don't know, just a thought. Maybe it is just because I haven't developed those muscles to stabilize myself yet.
> 
> Both of these issues are big confidence busters though, so I would like to do what I can to get rid of the problems.


You definitely need to do something about the bars width. Mine hands actually line up where my shoulders end. Like others said, load up the front and use your arms to help you climb. My bike goes back and forth about 30 degrees when I climb. Lean the bike (by pulling on opposite bar) to the side of the down stroke. I get more power out of each stroke doing this. Hope that made sense. As far as pedals hitting objects, I feel timing your pedaling works best. More riding times is probably the main solution for both of these.


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

> My bike goes back and forth about 30 degrees when I climb. Lean the bike (by pulling on opposite bar) to the side of the down stroke.


I totally disagree with this for off road riding. Its great on a road bike, and I see the point of the maneuver, but when climbing a steep hill, where traction is at a premium, you should be doing everything you can to keep the bike rolling smoothly up the hill. Just like a car in a tight turn, you don't want to upset the chasis. Rocking the bike side to side is encouraging 2 things. 1) weighting and unweighting the tires throughout the climb. You will lose traction. 2) Mashing the pedals on the down stroke. This will cause the rear wheel to spin out. In a steep climb, you need to keep the pedal pressure even. This means steady bicycle and smooth, round pedal strokes.

Additionally, leaning the bike side to side on a climb is constantly changing the portion of your tread that is in contact with the ground. This changes the characteristics of the tire and its inherent traction. While it can be predictable, when you are doing everything you can to keep the front wheel on the ground and maintain traction on steeps, consistency is key. This means keeping the centerline of the tread on the trail.

YMMV


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

I've also seen people weave around drunkenly when they try climbing a hill in too difficult of a gear. I don't know if this might be part of your problem or not. It's often better to shift to an easier gear and pedal at a high cadence, rather than shift to a harder gear and mash.

I wouldn't run out and buy any gear. Work on technique first.


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## macabra11 (Mar 25, 2010)

s0ckeyeus said:


> I've also seen people weave around drunkenly when they try climbing a hill in too difficult of a gear. I don't know if this might be part of your problem or not. It's often better to shift to an easier gear and pedal at a high cadence, rather than shift to a harder gear and mash.
> 
> I wouldn't run out and buy any gear. Work on technique first.


It even happens when I am in my granny gear  I need more saddle time to build up that endurance and get in better shape. Everytime I go out I am able to climb a little longer than before - so that is good.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

macabra11 said:


> It even happens when I am in my granny gear  I need more saddle time to build up that endurance and get in better shape. Everytime I go out I am able to climb a little longer than before - so that is good.


Really sounds like the engine is the biggest problem....

Good news that is easy to fix....

Try all sorts of different climbing techniques, sit and spin Stand and Hammer....Spurt and rest...

Go easy on the easy parts hard on the hard parts...

Clipless will really help going up hill switchbacks ruts etc...

Cause when you stand and hammer you get the full uppull, maybe 1.5 times max power without cleats for say 5 secs...or so.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

macabra11 said:


> It even happens when I am in my granny gear  I need more saddle time to build up that endurance and get in better shape. Everytime I go out I am able to climb a little longer than before - so that is good.


Ha! OK. I just wanted to make sure. Mountain biking takes some work. Keep putting in the effort and you'll be fine.


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## olijay (Feb 19, 2009)

Agree with sockeyus, this mostly comes down to technique and ability. 
My advice to the OP: Just keep riding, try the ratchet technique and other techniques (savagemann's post has good stuff) to expand your range and try to enjoy the climbs! Figure out gear later when you have the experience to judge what you need.


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## dhambrick (Mar 30, 2010)

suprcivic said:


> I totally disagree with this for off road riding. Its great on a road bike, and I see the point of the maneuver, but when climbing a steep hill, where traction is at a premium, you should be doing everything you can to keep the bike rolling smoothly up the hill. Just like a car in a tight turn, you don't want to upset the chasis. Rocking the bike side to side is encouraging 2 things. 1) weighting and unweighting the tires throughout the climb. You will lose traction. 2) Mashing the pedals on the down stroke. This will cause the rear wheel to spin out. In a steep climb, you need to keep the pedal pressure even. This means steady bicycle and smooth, round pedal strokes.
> 
> Additionally, leaning the bike side to side on a climb is constantly changing the portion of your tread that is in contact with the ground. This changes the characteristics of the tire and its inherent traction. While it can be predictable, when you are doing everything you can to keep the front wheel on the ground and maintain traction on steeps, consistency is key. This means keeping the centerline of the tread on the trail.
> 
> YMMV


Itt's good for the last few yards of a low grade hill if you need to get to the top without stopping. It has no effect on traction when used in these situations. This won't effect smoothness because the ride is anything but smooth when you start to use this technique. Again this is for new people who have problems with the last few strokes to make it to the top. This wouldn't work for a steep incline because you move at such a slow pace.


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## StarXed (Aug 5, 2008)

Dremer03 said:


> I think it is pretty much impossible to stop low speed wobbling or weaving. I know I do it, especially on slow up hill climbs. Wider bars might help make you more stable, but I doubt it will completely go away.


Really? Really vtolds?

Its not impossible to stop. You gotta improve your technique. Everyone wobbles at first, but as people have pointed out in this thread there are simple techniques to employ that will make it stop.

Wobbling comes from not having your weight forward enough. With practice you find the balancing point that keeps your bike steady without sacrificing the necessary traction at the rear wheel. It is easier to find this balancing point if you're not spinning too hard of a gear. Try to spin your pedals smoothly when you climb rather then mashing down on them. This also goes a long way towards improving the bike's stability.

I swear to god, vtolds, you piss me off so much sometimes.


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## FLMike (Sep 28, 2008)

macabra11 said:


> I am riding a stock '09 Konda Cinder Cone 22' frame, and my wife is riding an '07 (I think) Gary Fisher Marlin SM frame.


and the sag is set correctly (youre checking the air pressure) on the forks on both those bikes?


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## shrubeck (May 11, 2006)

When I first started mountain biking, I had pedal strikes all the time. After some time and experience, they started happening much less frequently. As you get better, you'll be able to avoid most of them without thinking about it. 

As far as keeping your front wheel straight on slow steep climbs, look farther ahead.


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