# How do you convince someone to wear a helmet?



## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

My friend went with me on his first trail ride. He doesn't own a helmet and didn't want to use one of my spare helmets.

What should/can I do? How do you convince someone to use a helmet. I'm sure that he'd be the kind of guy to refuse to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle too.


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## salpic (Jun 15, 2010)

Hit him on the head with a heavy branch as he rides by. That'll teach him.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

Tell him he can't ride with you without a helmet....

Show him some easily googled pictures of head injuries....

Call him a complete idiot...


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Take an egg out of the fridge and throw it into his fore head, then say, "That is what your head will feel like when you crack it into a tree stump".


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## carlos91 (Jun 12, 2010)

set him up in the advance trail when its slippery the rest happens naturally lol XD


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

Tell him that chicks dig guys with helmets.


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## hags707 (Apr 22, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> My friend went with me on his first trail ride. He doesn't own a helmet and didn't want to use one of my spare helmets.
> 
> What should/can I do? How do you convince someone to use a helmet. I'm sure that he'd be the kind of guy to refuse to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle too.


 Take out a life insurance policy on him, then take him to some crazy trails :thumbsup:. For real he makes the bed he sleeps in and some people just don't value what they have. Tell him that you won't roll with him if he dosn't want to wear a helmet :nono: because you don't want to drag his lump of skin out of the bush because he was to cool to protect himself .


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

He's a grown adult...if he doesn't want to wear a helmet that is his choice

I think people who ride w/o helmets are retards (at least there is a good chance they will be someday) but I don't believe in helmet laws for adults.

BTW-I broke a helmet in three pieces in 1999...major concussion with lingering effects to this day...but I'm still alive and riding instead of maggot food


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Personally, I won't ride with someone who doesn't wear a helmet. It's just not worth it to me.


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## graywolf (Mar 15, 2010)

Push him down and step on his head... I never wore them till I joined the army hen I had to, now they don't bug me


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

graywolf said:


> Push him down and step on his head... I never wore them till I joined the army hen I had to, now they don't bug me


Maybe that's why helmets don't bother me! lol

Infantry Marine = wear a helmet all the time and carry a heavy pack! lol.


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## graywolf (Mar 15, 2010)

Yeah try wearing an ach for awhile than you won't mind the bike helmet....


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Here's what I do:

me: You really should wear a helmet out here, dude.
him: I don't want to.
me: You're an adult make your own decisions.

And then we go ride.


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## scuver (Nov 5, 2009)

Ask him why he doesn't want to use your helmet. Maybe he's germophobic. If he doesn't believe it can save him, show him some articles and photos of head injuries. That's about all you can do if he's an adult. Of course you can always opt not to ride with him.


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## graywolf (Mar 15, 2010)

Me my kids are either with me riding or see me leave/ comeback so I want to set a good example. That is a main reason I wear one.


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

bad mechanic said:


> Personally, I won't ride with someone who doesn't wear a helmet. It's just not worth it to me.


+1

You should absolutely refuse to ride with him and explain why:
"Sooner or later, you will crash. If you ride enough, that's pretty much guaranteed...and since your dumbass refuses to wear a helmet, your head will likely be cracked. Now, since you crashed and have brain all over the trail, I have to interrupt my ride so that I can get a friggin ambulance to haul your below 70 IQ ass out of my trail. On top of that, just so I don't become the ass-hole here, I have to carry your stupid mangled bike out of the trail along with my own, and then instead of continuing my ride that I do with what little precious spare time I have in my busy life...I have to go to the hospital so that I can explain to your family that they spawned a lamebrain halfwit and to explain to the doctors 'no, you don't need to put his brain back in...it doesn't work anyways.'"

And then tell him "You can go ride by yourself. At least if you crash, I wouldn't know about it and it wouldn't ruin my ride. If I see you on the side of the trail with tofu spilling out of your egg, I'm gonna pretend I didn't see you."


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

Once hits his head on a tree or rock, he will start wearing a helmet...


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

nachomc said:


> Here's what I do:
> 
> me: You really should wear a helmet out here, dude.
> him: I don't want to.
> ...


This is what I did last night. After the ride, he said, "Wow, that' some pretty serious riding" I said, "That's why you should wear a helmet, so you don't crack your head on a rock while going through a rock garden." He still said he doesn't want to wear a helmet. :-\

Maybe I'll just buy him one.


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

Usually the guys that don't like to wear typical biking helmets seem to be okay with helmets like this:


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Fashion wins out over function for so many.


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## Eric2.0 (Jun 26, 2010)

Being a nurse I have seen many head injuries. Cuts to the head are massive in blood loss with just a moderate "gash" A simple brush in with a tree branch can rip your scalp wide open.and it will bleed and you will panic.

Tell your friend that, because it's the truth.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

captainjoon said:


> +1
> 
> You should absolutely refuse to ride with him and explain why:
> "Sooner or later, you will crash. If you ride enough, that's pretty much guaranteed...and since your dumbass refuses to wear a helmet, your head will likely be cracked. Now, since you crashed and have brain all over the trail, I have to interrupt my ride so that I can get a friggin ambulance to haul your below 70 IQ ass out of my trail. On top of that, just so I don't become the ass-hole here, I have to carry your stupid mangled bike out of the trail along with my own, and then instead of continuing my ride that I do with what little precious spare time I have in my busy life...I have to go to the hospital so that I can explain to your family that they spawned a lamebrain halfwit and to explain to the doctors 'no, you don't need to put his brain back in...it doesn't work anyways.'"
> ...


:yesnod:

I have absolutely nothing more to add to this.


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

yep yep.
No helmet = no ride with Mongoose


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

nachomc said:


> Here's what I do:
> 
> me: You really should wear a helmet out here, dude.
> him: I don't want to.
> ...


Ditto. 
I might throw in "dumb ass" at the end. But I'm no cop, and I'm not really that concerned about other people's stupidity. I've got enough of my own to worry about.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

First time I took a buddy riding, he was hesitant to wear my spare helmet, but he did anyways. Well, he took a spill down a jagged stair like feature in the advanced section and hit his head, not once, but twice, right on a rock. The shell of the helmet shows the scars. And to this day, he doesn't mind it one bit.


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## billee (Jul 31, 2004)

I hit my head on a heavy tree branch today. Cracked the plastic cover on the helmet. Without a helmet, I would have been bloody and possibly knocked out.


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## apache18 (Sep 16, 2009)

My riding buddy did not want to where a helmet when we first started riding. He said the girls thought he was cool not wearing a helmet. I told him, he was the only one that thinks he's cool not wearing a helmet and all the girls thought he looked like a fool. So, he might as well go ahead and call the Department of Motor Vehicles and have his ID card changed to a Orgin Donor. He started wearing a helmet.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Show him the replies in this post.

Luckily I've always wore a helmet when MTB'ing. Couple months ago I hurt myself & had a concussion, lost memory for the entire day of the crash. Cracked my helmet.
If I didn't have one on, I likely wouldn't have made it out of the forest.


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## Phadreus (Aug 16, 2008)

This is a fascinating issue to me, as I’ve never been one that feels the need to convince anyone to wear or not wear a helmet at any point. My first question HardWarz is: “why do you feel the need to convince your friend on this issue”? I understand the principal of he’s your friend, and you may feel like you care enough to look out for him and that’s cool…but where’s that end? Do you make sure he fastens he seatbelt every time he rides in a car, or washes hand after using the bathroom, or takes an umbrella when its cloudy out? Ok, so I’m being slightly facetious to make a point, but you get the jist I’m sure. For me, I would advise; you mention your concern, offer him your spare helmet and accept his answer respectfully and go ride.

I’ve never met anyone that hate’s helmets more than I do. They seem to collect all the sweat from my head, and redirect it into my eyes…they are uncomfortable for me to wear…they make me feel slightly claustrophobic…they look goofy as all get out to my eye…and I’m ultimately not convinced of their protective properties being a Mechanical Engineer that has both researched their construction methods and design intent, as well as investigated the statistics on their ability to protect, and I just don’t buy into it. HOWEVER, with all that being said, I wear one every time simply as all those discomforts for me that I mentioned pale in comparison to the discomfort the guys that ride with me would feel if I didn’t wear one. So, in short, I slap one on, forget about it and enjoy the ride…but that’s just me I guess.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

I tend to find people don't get that "real" mountain bikers (does that make me sound elitist?) ride trails that aren't just flat dirt roads, similar to what they go on when they "hike". I have mentioned falling to several people who responded with something like "you FALL off your bike?" Then I show them some videos of the type of riding I do with some technical features, climbs, downhill sections, etc, and they get it. Same reason many people don't wear helmets. The other reason, IMO, is "it wont' happen to me" syndrome. That's just plain stupid, IMO. I have fallen skiing and whacked my head on a big chunk of ice, and let me tell you, I was happy I wore a helmet.


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## benzology (Oct 31, 2005)

Seems to be two clear trains of thought here...

1/ No helmet = no ride 

and 

2/ Your mate is an adult, let them decide

Personally Im in the number 1 category, If someone plans to ride without a helmet i'll tell them I have a spare and do my best to encourage them to wear it without sounding condescending. 

I have been on a number of rides where guys have crashed and the helmet has done a remarkable job of a) saving the person's melon, and b) allowing a good days riding to continue. I tell them this and it seems to work every time.

If they insist then most likely I wont be part of that ride. I always have a spare lid in the car and it often gets used - like captainjoon mentioned its a skate type lid and most guys will wear one of them before a standard MTB style helmet.

There is a really brutal thread on MTBR written by a guy who crashed him bike just outside his house without wearing a helmet - I remember thinking this guy is very unselfish to show the damage done to his cranium. Show your mate that thread and he will be sure to think twice.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I was anti helmet until I was watching a presentation by mountain rescue. Two guys got blown off a ledge rolled down and embankment and landed hard in rocks.

They were both in a very bad state, the guy with the helmet had his helmet in three pieces.
The guy without had his skull in three clear pieces and his brain was torn in half.

A shock method that worked on me, I started putting my helmet on as soon as I leave the car and wear one in all sports.

The moral of the story was one guy died, one guy got to walk away.
Not literally of course, his hip had rotated 360 in the fall, so probably never walked again....but still alive.

To reinforce my point I headbutted a tree with enough force to flip me through the air on the first day with my ski helmet, a bump on the tree had torn the top of my helmet off. Not only was I not dead I was not even in the slightest bit of discomfort, the whole process was 100% painless, it would have been fatal. so helmets good!


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

also saw a guy headbut tarmac on a road bike doing 40-60mph down a steep hill a couple of weeks back, his helmet was in ~30 pieces.
He was OK, not great, but OK.


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

mtnbiker72 said:


> I think people who ride w/o helmets are retards (at least there is a good chance they will be someday)...


:thumbsup:

My new signature line.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*How to spot a rookie, noob, poser*

Speaking generally, people who ride without helmets are new riders.

@Phadreus: You're a mechanical engineer and you don't understand energy transfer or dispersion? Yikes.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Here's why you shouldn't ride with someone not wearing a helmet: because like it or not, whether right or not, you will receive blame. Others will perceive you as the more experienced rider who should have been looking out for his friend. After all, you are better equipped and more knowledgeable, right? Why did you protect yourself and then leave your friend exposed while riding into danger?

Reason #2: If there's a bad crash, the event will haunt you. If you'd stood your ground, maybe your friend would've gone home that day. You'll be haunted by such thoughts. 

The interesting problem for me is exactly what the OP is getting at: changing the mindset, or the culture. I've been thinking a lot about the helmet issue lately as a result of letting a neighbor kid borrow one of my bikes. I had to really put my foot down on the "wear a helmet" issue. Telling the kid "no helmet, no bike" is easy. The more difficult and interesting problem is to change the local culture such that kids don't perceive it as "uncool' to wear a helmet.


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## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

15yrs. ago I was riding in San Diego went down a trail going about 50mph according to computer. Both tires flatted, fell, hit head on 2' diameter rock....helmet was one of the old Troy lee open face helmets. I would not be writing this right now had I not been wearing a helmet.

When someone refuses to wear a helmet...it just shows how disrepectful they are to themselves and their families.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*That' a parent issue...*



JonathanGennick said:


> Here's why you shouldn't ride with someone not wearing a helmet: because like it or not, whether right or not, you will receive blame. Others will perceive you as the more experienced rider who should have been looking out for his friend. After all, you are better equipped and more knowledgeable, right? Why did you protect yourself and then leave your friend exposed while riding into danger?
> 
> Reason #2: If there's a bad crash, the event will haunt you. If you'd stood your ground, maybe your friend would've gone home that day. You'll be haunted by such thoughts.
> 
> The interesting problem for me is exactly what the OP is getting at: changing the mindset, or the culture. I've been thinking a lot about the helmet issue lately as a result of letting a neighbor kid borrow one of my bikes. I had to really put my foot down on the "wear a helmet" issue. Telling the kid "no helmet, no bike" is easy. The more difficult and interesting problem is to change the local culture such that kids don't perceive it as "uncool' to wear a helmet.


My kids wear a helmet and don't really think about it. I should say, my kids used to wear a helmet before they started driving.

Culturally, this is similar to wearing a seatbelt. When I was growing up, we didn't wear seatbelts. Even now, it's not the very 1st thing I do when I get in a car and I'll catch myself driving a little bit before putting it on. My kids don't even think about not wearing one.

Wearing a helmet is a parent issue vs. a cultural issue, IMO.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

I've never really been in a huge crash where my helmet "saved my life," but I've had quite a few instances where a tree or limb was hanging across the trail at just the right level to knock me in the head. I've been happy to be wearing a helmet in these cases. A small jolt to the helmet is a lot better than a whack to the bare forehead.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> Wearing a helmet is a parent issue vs. a cultural issue, IMO.


You know, that's probably true in the sense that the culture might change if more parents forced the issue.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

Well, I talked to my roommate again. He said he won't wear one and he won't buy one either. He said that he wasn't going fast enough to warrant a helmet and that he just put his foot down when he was getting sketchy.

I've given up with him... not sure if he'll go riding again anyway.

You guys also made me realize that he doesn't wear a seat belt while driving even though it's a state law in Ohio. We're also getting motorcycles next summer, I'm sure he won't want to wear a helmet then.

I have another friend that just bought a road bike. I asked him if he has a helmet, he said no, that if he gets in an accident, he'd rather be dead than survive and have someone take care of him for the rest of his life.

I need new friends...


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## auto (Aug 27, 2009)

hardwarz said:


> My friend went with me on his first trail ride. He doesn't own a helmet and didn't want to use one of my spare helmets.
> 
> What should/can I do? How do you convince someone to use a helmet. I'm sure that he'd be the kind of guy to refuse to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle too.


Personal freedom is awesome. I would like to convince all taxpaying responsible citizens to own a gun and be responsible for their personal safety, but sadly most choose to no to. :thumbsup:

I have worn helmets and not, it's great to be able to choose.:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

nachomc said:


> Here's what I do:
> me: You really should wear a helmet out here, dude.
> him: I don't want to.
> me: You're an adult make your own decisions ...


... but, I don't want to ride with people who don't wear helmets. Give me a ring when you are willing to wear one.


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

hardwarz said:


> Well, I talked to my roommate again. He said he won't wear one and he won't buy one either. He said that he wasn't going fast enough to warrant a helmet and that he just put his foot down when he was getting sketchy.
> 
> I've given up with him... not sure if he'll go riding again anyway.
> 
> ...


LOL... you do.... why don't you show your roommate the thread linked above?

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566

That dude fell riding his bike while walking his dog... no speed there whatsoever.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

auto said:


> Personal freedom is awesome. I would like to convince all taxpaying responsible citizens to own a gun and be responsible for their personal safety, but sadly most choose to no to. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have worn helmets and not, it's great to be able to choose.:thumbsup:


That's fine... I just really don't feel like waiting in a mosquito infested woods, trying to direct an ambulance to my position with shotty reception while my buddy is laying there bleeding out of his skull. His choice not to wear one may impact my freedom to pursue happiness and keep riding! lol. (j/k)

But not to worry... we're both packing 9mm (me: Springfield XD 9mm SC. Him: Sig 229) on the trails, so if those wild turkeys come back and try to attack us... or the 2 fawns I saw the other day... it's ON!


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

hardwarz said:


> He said that he wasn't going fast enough to warrant a helmet and that he just put his foot down when he was getting sketchy.


If his foot is down, then his butt is on the seat, and that's about the worst place to be when things get sketchy.



> not sure if he'll go riding again anyway.


Probably just as well.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> ...
> 
> so if those wild turkeys come back and try to attack us... or the 2 fawns I saw the other day... it's ON!


I'm gonna assume you're joking on this one! 

Seriously, just don't invite him to ride anymore..... That's YOUR personal freedom!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> ... but, I don't want to ride with people who don't wear helmets. Give me a ring when you are willing to wear one.


The very few times I've run in to someone like this the helmet thing is only an issue on the first ride. Not that I'm riding some major technical stuff, but on the first trip to the trails the person realizes that we're not *****-footing down a dirt trail behind the backstop at the local park, and that they could get seriously hurt. On the second ride they usually show up with a helmet, or are more willing to ride with the extra one I brought for them.


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## auto (Aug 27, 2009)

hardwarz said:


> But not to worry... we're both packing 9mm (me: Springfield XD 9mm SC. Him: Sig 229) on the trails, so if those wild turkeys come back and try to attack us... or the 2 fawns I saw the other day... it's ON!


Nothing like fresh tenderloin from a fawn/young doe, a little salt and a little flame


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## shillelagh (Jun 30, 2010)

I think one problem older mountain bikers sometimes have is that when we were kids we never had helmets, no matter what kind of riding we were doing. My husband used to ride BMX bikes as a kid, and it was his main mode of transportation out in the country till he was 16, and he purchased his first helmet at the age of 33. It can be hard to accept that what you thought was safe, wasn't.

But, you know, grow up, and wear the helmet. The statistics are pretty clear. A helmet won't protect you in all crashes, but it will make some crashes that would have been very bad into the kind of thing you can bounce away from.


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## dAt_nEw_gUy (Jun 28, 2010)

carlos91 said:


> set him up in the advance trail when its slippery the rest happens naturally lol XD


+1! I had the same issue cause I thought they looked goofy. Went on my first ride with a friend the a week before I got my bike and took a spill over the handle bars. No damage to my mellon or his wifeys trek 4300. Before the ride I told him I was a grown a$$ man, I aint wearing a red helmet... He laughed and said, you are a stupid a$$ grown man but its up to you. Not even a half an hour after we started hitting the trails, **** happened and I was warned by mother nature..... I rode straight back to his truck and put on that queer red helmet.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

There are a million helmet stories, but I feel like this one's worth sharing. A good friend of mine has always been the guy to tell people to wear helmets and to call them stupid if they don't. One day he was just test riding a road bike and he didn't bother with a helmet. Something happened, he lost control and bounced his head off the curb. He fractured his skull. Long story short, he permanently lost his senses of smell and taste. 
If it happened to him, it could happen to anybody. 

BTW, I don't think motorcycles or even road bikes should be mentioned in a mountainbike helmet discussion. The difference with mountainbikes is that if you're not crashing on a mountainbike every once in a while, you're probably not doing it right. Crashes, branches, trees - they're all part of the sport. If you don't want a helmet, you just don't get it.


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## canonshooter (May 10, 2009)

push him off the side of the trail...... thats what I would do!


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Think about this: How does it effect *you* if he doesn't wear a helmet?
People say stuff like "I don't want to clean up his brains, or I don't want to wait for the ambulance", but I think that's just an excuse. The real problem is that people get personally offended when someone has different sensibilities than they do. It challenges their preconceived notions. Some helmet wearers don't want to ride with non-helmet wearers because they can not understand their logic. It makes them uncomfortable. That's all, cutting through the excuses.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I just want someone to answer one question...

Why would you NOT wear a helmet on the trail?



No reason holds water, not a single one!


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## auto (Aug 27, 2009)

HamfisT said:


> I just want someone to answer one question...
> 
> Why would you NOT wear a helmet on the trail?
> 
> No reason holds water, not a single one!


It doesn't have to, it's called personal choice, best reason in the world, and the ability not too have one good reason not to.:thumbsup:

It is no wonder why this country is going down the marxist/socialist path with some of the comments on this thread. Leave them to their own device, simple.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I think it was said best on the first page....

"You don't have to put his brains back in.... they don't work anyway"!


Personal choice is not an answer... give me a real one.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Personal choice is the best answer of all....it's OK if you've chosen to give it up, but it's not OK if you try to force others to do so.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I'm talking about justifying this to MYSELF... I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks.

When you get on your bike to ride a trail, what do you say to yourself to convince yourself that you don't need a helmet? Personal choice? Bullsh1t!

"I chose to not wear a helmet simply because I have the option to make that choice, and nobody is gonna take my freedom from me"?

Ridiculous.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't have to justify it to myself, I also don't have to justify it to you. I choose to wear a helmet. I also choose to support your right to have a choice. They are not mutually exclusive positions.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I guess I'm being misunderstood, not meaning to start anything here.

I just can't find a single reason why a person WOULD choose to not wear a helmet.... 

like it or not, I (and most of us here), have a responsibility to family and friends, and ourselves, to try our best to keep the gray matter inside the bucket.

I just can't fathom the logic of someone who's sole reason for not wearing a helmet is because they have the right to choose.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

HamfisT said:


> I guess I'm being misunderstood, not meaning to start anything here.
> 
> I just can't find a single reason why a person WOULD choose to not wear a helmet....
> 
> ...


Ultimately, like anything we are not _forced_ to do, it does come down to personal choice. You have to weigh the known or perceived pros and cons and decide what fits your needs.

The anti-helmet arguments are often related to things like saying a helmet adds weight to your head and increases rotational speed / neck movement and others. Here's a really long thread that has the back and forth in it: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?654865-To-the-anti-helmet-proponents-on-the-forum... No I did not read all of it (or any of it past page 1) and will not.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

IMO most of the people who choose not to wear a helmet do so for fashion reasons rather than for function reasons. Should be pretty easy for cyclists (who tend to be fashion driven as a whole) to understand.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

HamfisT said:


> I guess I'm being misunderstood, not meaning to start anything here.
> 
> I just can't find a single reason why a person WOULD choose to not wear a helmet....
> 
> ...


Helmets are uncomfortable ... hot, ill-fitting, and weird looking. Each person has to decide how much risk they are willing to endure in order to be more comfortable. There is no black and white argument for such a risk assessment. The 'right to choose' argument is an argument for allowing individuals to determine the risk they are comfortable with. It is not an argument on why everyone should choose to ride with or without a helmet. Without it, you will ultimately have to dissallow any risky behavior ... including riding bikes.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

Neck braces, gauze and stitches are uncomfortable, hot, ill fitting, and weird looking. MUCH moreso than a nice helmet. I feel uncomfortable and weird without my bucket on!

I consider my helmet an essential part of my bicycle, as necessary as wheels and tires.

Your right to choose is one of the great freedoms... I choose logic.


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

I am one of those who try to convince anyone that rides with me to wear a helmet, but I rightly do so because as a friend or a guide to the person I am leading in to the trails I have the responsibility.

I see a lot here that are talking about freedom of choice and I am definitely more than for, as they work to take those who are less than the garden variety to take themselves out of the gene pool. Just don't do it on my time because if I have to witness your idiotic demise, my entire day and maybe even week will be ruined by all the time wasting reports and witness accounts, not to mention giving the pathetic news to your family and loved ones.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

At which point they can choose to go with you under your rules or not...


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

HamfisT said:


> I consider my helmet an essential part of my bicycle, as necessary as wheels and tires. ... I choose logic.


So logically, you would never (under any circumstances) ride a bike without a helmet? Not a foot, yard, or a mile. Not on grass, sidewalk, flat road or a trail?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Helmets are uncomfortable ... hot, ill-fitting, and weird looking. Each person has to decide how much risk they are willing to endure in order to be more comfortable. There is no black and white argument for such a risk assessment. The 'right to choose' argument is an argument for allowing individuals to determine the risk they are comfortable with. It is not an argument on why everyone should choose to ride with or without a helmet. Without it, you will ultimately have to dissallow any risky behavior ... including riding bikes.


I just saw a Youtube video of that Daniel Tosh guy (Tosh.0) that was funny and relevant-ish to this thread and your post.

"But the cool kids never wear helmets! Yeah that's because the cool kids aren't clumsy!" :lol:

I'm being part-tarded and can't embed for some reason


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> So logically, you would never (under any circumstances) ride a bike without a helmet? Not a foot, yard, or a mile. Not on grass, sidewalk, flat road or a trail?


I never put a leg over my bike without a helmet on.

Not even to ride up and down the street for adjustments... I have my reasons, and they involve a close friend who made HIS choice.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Ahh...a helmet fundamentalist...how do you feel about stairs, or bath tubs?

Not trying to diminish the injury of your friend, but if we're talking about a risk analysis you'd better adopt a stair and bath tub strategy too...the stats on those are off the charts.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

HamfisT said:


> I never put a leg over my bike without a helmet on.
> 
> Not even to ride up and down the street for adjustments... I have my reasons, and they involve a close friend who made HIS choice.


that's not a bad rule. I know an excellent rider who was goofing around outside his house, with his flip flops on, and just by some freak accident fell and hit his head, and is still having headaches, light sensitivity and other problems several months later.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I'm not paranoid or chickenshit in the least, I run down stairs three steps at a time and I sing in the bath tub. 

I smoke a fine cigar every once in a while, I eat red meat and lots of bacon.

I wear a seat belt in a car, and a helmet on a motorcycle or bike. I don't see them as a hinderance. Is that so strange? 

but... I thought we were talking about mountain biking here... where around every corner is a tree or rock looking to take a chomp out of your skull.


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Tell him to jump onto a parked car and take a dive into the pavement. He can use his arms to break his fall.

You are going about 15mph, the typical speed for any easy descent.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

No, you're not chickenshit, and wearing a helmet or a seatbelt isn't strange at all...they fit within your safety belief system and other things don't. It's pretty common to have such logical inconsistencies in one's behavior patterns, I know that I do, but I also don't get incensed at the choices that others make that aren't aligned with my safety belief system.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

I recall an email, one that I am sure most of us have seen, regarding how it was when "we" grew up...20, 30 years ago...and how we used to launch bottle rockets at each other (or in my case shoot BB rifles at each other until we got caught by mom or dad), never wore a helmet, didn't have video games and we were fine with going out, sweating, and enjoying the fragrance of nature etc.

One of the thoughts in that email, was we are all OK...*MOSTLY*. Thought processes evolve, some for the worse, others for the better, but when enough parents have lost children to brain damage, or folks see other friends or loved ones get into a preventable traumatic accident from not wearing a seatbelt or helmet, it is easy to jump on the bandwagon with those powerful arguments and support them.

I just got back from a ride with my 10 year old son, and he had his helmet on, I did not. I had him wear his helmet after reading much of this thread prior to our ride. My wife and I got into a fairly spirited debate a couple weeks back about my lax attitude on not enforcing the helmet wearing on our kids. Know what I told her? None of us ever wore them as a kid and you know it. We are all just fine...I should have added that little word, *MOSTLY*.

After further reading on this thread, I also realize I am not setting a proper role model for our kids with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. My excuse was we were riding on a no brainer paved and very wide double track. I am not in the woods on my bike, everything is smooth sailing.

I do not want to become that rare statistic. I am positive no one ever planned to get into a wreck, it just happened. It can happen to anyone.

I will now wear one every time I get on my bike as well, regardless of where I go.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

Like I said, I wouldn't ask him to ride with me anymore, It's his choice, and I definately respect that, but it's my chioce whether I invite or not.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

HamfisT said:


> Like I said, I wouldn't ask him to ride with me anymore, It's his choice, and I definately respect that, but it's my chioce whether I invite or not.


Yep. No truer words were ever written.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

auto said:


> It doesn't have to, it's called personal choice, best reason in the world, and the ability not too have one good reason not to.:thumbsup:
> 
> It is no wonder why this country is going down the marxist/socialist path with some of the comments on this thread. Leave them to their own device, simple.


Seriously? And if someone gets hurt enough to not be killed, but has brain trauma and is put on social security and medicare and has a nurse stop at the house daily while living on your tax dollars, you're OK with that? And we all know that a $30 helmet that could have averted the whole situation.

I'm by no means trying to force him to wear a helmet; but at the same time I'm not looking forward to the alternative.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> Seriously? And if someone gets hurt enough to not be killed, but has brain trauma and is put on social security and medicare and has a nurse stop at the house daily while living on your tax dollars, you're OK with that? And we all know that a $30 helmet that could have averted the whole situation.
> 
> I'm by no means trying to force him to wear a helmet; but at the same time I'm not looking forward to the alternative.


whether we make great efforts to save someone's life and provide for them with govt programs funded by our tax dollars in the event of an avoidable injury (always debatable) is an entirely different issue. In boxman's dictatorship the answer would be no, he had a choice and it involved opting out of a social safety net when he chose not to wear a helmet to limit his risk...but, unfortunately for everyone else, we're not living in boxman's dictatorship...


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

hardwarz said:


> Seriously? And if someone gets hurt enough to not be killed, but has brain trauma and is put on social security and medicare and has a nurse stop at the house daily while living on your tax dollars, you're OK with that? And we all know that a $30 helmet that could have averted the whole situation.


The real answer is to make that person take personal responsibility and not let them live on social security and tax dollars.


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

At first thought, I initially agree with the tax dollar statements, but consider this...

Sky diving, mountain climbing, hang gliding, Freestyle mtb'ing and many many more, carry a daily risk of severe injury that doesn't involve your cranium including broken backs and necks. People will always take risks in extreme endeavors and there ain't shiznit that anyone can or SHOULD do about it. 

As an aside, a little peer pressure to wear a helmet, however, is always warrented IMO.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

And many of those are endeavors that will cause your life insurance and health insurance companies to charge you a higher premium...as they should, it's still your choice. Forcing the rest of us to assume responsibility for the long term results is just wrong. Peer pressure is exactly how it needs to be dealt with, that and higher premiums, not via legislation...


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

trboxman said:


> And many of those are endeavors that will cause your life insurance and health insurance companies to charge you a higher premium...as they should, it's still your choice. Forcing the rest of us to assume responsibility for the long term results is just wrong. Peer pressure is exactly how it needs to be dealt with, that and higher premiums, not via legislation...


High-five

I did find it ironic when going through my life insurance forms, with my right leg in a cast from a mountain biking accident, that the interview questions of risky / EXTREME(EEEE!!!!!) activities did not include cycling in any way :lol:


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

trboxman said:


> And many of those are endeavors that will cause your life insurance and health insurance companies to charge you a higher premium...as they should, it's still your choice. Forcing the rest of us to assume responsibility for the long term results is just wrong. Peer pressure is exactly how it needs to be dealt with, that and higher premiums, not via legislation...


I agree as well, but I am making rebuttals openly, so when the time comes that you do not have an open forum to discuss this on, and you are among your friends and acquaintances, you have a counter attack.


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## Phadreus (Aug 16, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> Speaking generally, people who ride without helmets are new riders.
> 
> @Phadreus: You're a mechanical engineer and you don't understand energy transfer or dispersion? Yikes.


I sure do Ken, my opinion of helmets is well informed and backed with education, I assure you.

If you look into the design and test data, they just don't do what most people expect them to do is all I'm saying. It's not a problem with the helmets, it's a problem with performance expectations of the users. Too many people take the expectations of full on dot/snell approved motorcycle helmets, and transfer them to simple, molded Styrofoam bike helmets. They are not the same animal and do not perform the same.

Cheers!


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

LOLs...but I do wear a helmet when riding my bike...


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

auto said:


> Personal freedom is awesome. I would like to convince all taxpaying responsible citizens to own a gun and be responsible for their personal safety, but sadly most choose to no to. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have worn helmets and not, it's great to be able to choose.:thumbsup:


personal freedom is wonderful, i am a great proponent of it. HOWEVER... if you want to ride by yourself and not wear a helmet, well ok... but like it has been said here a bunch of times already, if you ride with me, you wear a helmet. Its the fact that your actions effect others... its the fact that you falling and spilitting your head apart on a rock/log/the freaking ground, means that if i am with you, it is my responsibility as a member of the human race, to help you... If I am your companion and you are leaking brains, i am forced to help.... so, now your personal freedom is making me deal with calling 911, leading rescue personel to your location, providing what first aid i can until they get there, etc... had you been wearing a helmet, maybe it would have just been helping you get your concussed, confused dumba$$ back out of the trail, instead of cleaning up your brains off a rock.... or maybe even as simple as you shake off the crash and buy a new helmet instead of a trip to the ER to stitch up the hole in your scalp... even a small nick in your head can cause a lot of blood loss, and i know 12 miles from a trailhead is not where i want to be struggling to stop the bleeding of a head wound, my own or a friends.

Bottom line:
reasons to NOT wear a helmet are far fewer and weaker than reasons TO wear a helmet. a friend who doesnt undestand that helmet use is a smart thing, and that if your friend asks you to wear one to ride with them you should, so you are safe (first and foremost) and so that you are conciderate of your friend. Nobody wants to clean up your bloody head and/or call emergency services, especially if it could have been avoided by a lightweight, comfortably fitting, well ventilated helmet....


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## auto (Aug 27, 2009)

hardwarz said:


> Seriously? And if someone gets hurt enough to not be killed, but has brain trauma and is put on social security and medicare and has a nurse stop at the house daily while living on your tax dollars, you're OK with that? And we all know that a $30 helmet that could have averted the whole situation.
> 
> I'm by no means trying to force him to wear a helmet; but at the same time I'm not looking forward to the alternative.


I would gladly pay for the relatively low number of permanently brain injured cyclists vs the number of breeding like rabbits of baby mamas that who are real cost the US taxpayer. :thumbsup:

Don't ge me started on the failure of the nanny state.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

True that...


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

Darwin Award!:eekster:


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

If someone doesn't want to wear a helmet that is their choice and it doesn't offend me.

If I don't want to ride with someone who isn't wearing a helmet, that is my choice and it shouldn't offend them. 

Why is everyone so intolerant of others intolerance?


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

davedg said:


> If someone doesn't want to wear a helmet that is their choice and it doesn't offend me.
> 
> If I don't want to ride with someone who isn't wearing a helmet, that is my choice and it shouldn't offend them.
> 
> Why is everyone so intolerant of others intolerance?


It does with some people. Really ruins your ride if you have to take a Buddie to the ER(If you ride with them)


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## davedg (Sep 11, 2009)

S_Trek said:


> It does with some people. Really ruins your ride if you have to take a Buddie to the ER(If you ride with them)


That's why I choose not to ride with them if they don't wear a helmet. They are free to choose. I'm free to choose. It's a two way street.


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## dAt_nEw_gUy (Jun 28, 2010)

ur friend will eventually wear a helme when he gets better and wants to go faster, the risk factor will go up, he will eat sh!t and he will get one or stop riding.

as far as getting motorcycles.... lmao, all you have to do is take him where the bugs are... lmao, after day 1 he will get one for sure!


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

dAt_nEw_gUy said:


> as far as getting motorcycles.... lmao, all you have to do is take him where the bugs are... lmao, after day 1 he will get one for sure!


And a full-face too. :thumbsup:


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## benzology (Oct 31, 2005)

davedg said:


> https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


Thanks - thats the thread I was talking about.


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## tihsepa (May 15, 2009)

No helmet= one less person on the trail. 
I have no interest in whether or not someone else I have no control over wears one just get out of the way.


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## HamfisT (Mar 31, 2010)

I figure I've spent a LOT of time and money filling my skull with what little knowledge and information would fit...

The last thing I want to see is all that work leaking out onto the rocks.


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

With this pic?


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## JackStephen (Jun 29, 2010)

Or..with this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hoolgirl-walks-away-unhurt-car-runs-HEAD.html


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## merlinm (Feb 12, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> My friend went with me on his first trail ride. He doesn't own a helmet and didn't want to use one of my spare helmets.
> 
> What should/can I do? How do you convince someone to use a helmet. I'm sure that he'd be the kind of guy to refuse to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle too.


take him to any hospital with neurology ward and tour the ward. the nickname the nurses give helmetless riders is 'organ doners'...no helmet can turn minor crash into brain damage or worse.


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## Sparkle Bear (Apr 19, 2010)

Carry a mini mag flash light with you and rap him on the head. Do it all the time reguardless of how hard he beats you for it. He will start wearing a helmet.


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## hags707 (Apr 22, 2010)

auto said:


> It doesn't have to, it's called personal choice, best reason in the world, and the ability not too have one good reason not to.:thumbsup:
> 
> It is no wonder why this country is going down the marxist/socialist path with some of the comments on this thread. Leave them to their own device, simple.


Being told to wear a bike helmet is far from marxist/socialist path IMHO but hey if people dont want to wear a helmet, look on the bright side there help boast the economy when they crash ( medical stuff, probly will buy a helmet for next ride )


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Have him take a ride with me, and he can see how many times a helmet will help.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

hags707 said:


> Its statments like this that blow my mind, so your saying if I choose to drive my truck at 60mph in a school yard drunk, its my choice. Think about the can of worms you'r statment opens :thumbsup:


Personal risk vs. a danger to the public. Simple but important distinction that keeps the worms in the can. Someone not understanding that just blows my mind.:thumbsup:


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## TwinBlade (Jun 21, 2010)

coming from a dumb noob, 


KEEP THE POLITICAL BS OUT OF THIS!

I belong to forums where I can rant...POLITICALLY...all day long. 

How about joining one so you can do the same. I much prefer to see this thread stay alive regardless of viewpoint...hard as that is for me to say.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## IRONMAN1518 (Jul 19, 2008)

No helmet, = no brains. You WILL fall down, just dunno when, maybe not on your head but u don't know that do you> I raced motorcycles for 11 years and did wear a full coverage Bell Star. Did crash, and did go unconscious 3 times.....NOT a good thing!! But helmet kept me alive to ride again!! Oh yeah and not to live as a vegetable!!! 
If one rides long and hard enough in hard terrain you will fall down go boom!! and you will land on your head sometime.
Remind your so called friend, (I call him a dumb A$$; JUST my little opinion) the heart ache/cost to his family if he lands on head and becomes a veggie. you are ok if you land on your head and die, bye bye done deal and family gets some life insurance. (Sorry just the true facts of life like it or not). If he land on unhelmeted head he runs a bigg probability of becomming a veggie.............again a real hearache to the family and the costs$$$$$$$ to maintain the veggie............JUST mt little opinion based on two wheel (of different types) ridding since '71.
Helmet??? Don't leave home without it.


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## hazdxb (Oct 11, 2008)

I don't know about your guys but i usually take into account the relationship i have with the person im trying to convince. I've convinced my very good friend who i ride street with to wear a helmet just by letting him know that I will not ride with him until he wears one and he's thanked me for it afterwards. Convinced other stubborn friends who were just getting into the sport by taking them onto some intermediate trails and places where we knew they'd wipe out. One crash is all it take to convince them. 
In my short experience i've seen helmet advocates get pretty mad at people who don't wear helmets and i think it's just easier to convince people with other techniques like shock tactics or just refusing to ride with them.


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## hogarth (Jun 2, 2010)

I work in special ed and have seen the results of traumatic brain injury. Had one girl who was NOT special ed, got into a car wreck on her way to school (she ran a stop sign trying to keep up with her boyfriend and got t-boned). When she came back to school 5 months later, she was a different person. She walked slowly, fell asleep in class, was now in special ed classes, and even her personality had changed.

Your friend may ride slowly on trails, but think about how far your head falls from a seated position on a bike to the ground....could be 5 feet, 6 feet, whatever. Your head can accelerate quickly in such a fall (not even counting how fast the bike is going), and if the head hits a pointy rock or log on the ground, that's it.

A friend of mine is a doctor. She did her internship in emergency medicine at a hospital in Lehigh Valley, PA. She was there when PA changed the motorcycle law from "must wear helmet" to "should wear helmet". The result: they didn't get any motorcycle accident victims into the ER anymore.....why? Because they went straight to the morgue.

You need new friends who can use their brains. To be honest, this guy may not need a helmet because I don't think he has a brain that needs protection.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Helmets allow you go faster. Kind of like how brakes allow you go faster too. It sounds backwards until you think about it. Remove your brakes or replace them with shitty ones and lets see how fast you dare to go.

It doesn't take much of a hit to the head to kill ya. There was an article posted earlier about how a cyclist collided with a pedestrian--the victim fell and hit his head and was pronounced dead on the scene when the paramedics arrived.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Varaxis said:


> There was an article posted earlier about how a cyclist collided with a pedestrian--the victim fell and hit his head and was pronounced dead on the scene when the paramedics arrived.


Wait a minute. Cyclist hits pedestrian. That make the pedestrian the victim. So the pedestrian hit his head and died because he wasn't wearing a helmet?

This thread is on the edge of being off topic with everyone explaining why you should wear a helmet. I don't believe anyone here has suggested that it's a bad idea to wear a helmet.

The original subject was how to convince *someone else* to wear a helmet.

I guess the best way would be, to make sure they are aware that they can get hurt if they fall down. (Most people are already aware of that, having fallen at some point in their lives.)

Once you've done that, you're done!

If that doesn't get them to wear a helmet, nothing you say will.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Trail Ninja said:


> ...... I don't believe anyone here has suggested that it's a bad idea to wear a helmet........


I will:
1. They are heavy, <1lbs can strain most people's necks
2. Goofy looking. How can you pickup a hot chick with one on at a bar. You can't.
3. Hot. No matter how many holes there are, not enough air gets in to cool my Fabio like hair do.
4. Cost. Hmm, spend $80 on a helmet or put that towards more weed. Hmmm.
5. Takes up space. My car can't hold anymore crap. The seats are covered in last months Taco Bell and McD's wrapers. I think my cats in there somewhere.
6. Whatever!

O Wait, these aren't good excuses to NOT wear a helmet.


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## justonegear (Feb 16, 2008)

I'm amazed a question this stupid has this much activity ?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

the-one1 said:


> I will:
> 1. They are heavy, <1lbs can strain most people's necks
> 2. Goofy looking. How can you pickup a hot chick with one on at a bar. You can't.
> 3. Hot. No matter how many holes there are, not enough air gets in to cool my Fabio like hair do.
> ...


Of those reasons, HOT is a real reason for me. Riding in AZ, or in CO more recently, on uphills in the summer, it is not unusual to be on the verge of heat stroke. For me, the risk of falling while climbing, which is ultra slow anyway, is worth taking to avoid baking the cranium.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

justonegear said:


> I'm amazed a question this stupid has this much activity ?


I'm not sure how it's a stupid question, but you're adding to the activity anyway...


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> Of those reasons, HOT is a real reason for me. Riding in AZ, or in CO more recently, on uphills in the summer, it is not unusual to be on the verge of heat stroke. For me, the risk of falling while climbing, which is ultra slow anyway, is worth taking to avoid baking the cranium.


Wouldn't direct sunlight in AZ make your head hotter? I'd imagine the air flow is roughly the same due to how the air is rammed into the vents and channeled between the helmet and your head and when at a stand still, it vents up. The main thing I dislike about helmets are helmet hair and the lack of helmets that fit perfectly. A big plus besides deflecting low hanging branches and protecting my head in a crash is how much sweat it keeps out of my eyes.


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