# Bicycle Muggings



## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

My brother who commutes through Overtown ( the worst part of Miami) had to do a "swerve and sprint" to escape a mugger who he assumes was after his bike. He heard of another case of the same thing happening to someone else the next day. We don't know if the other guy escaped. Apparently high unemployment, and high gas prices are making bikes a prime target of thieves even when being ridden. Has anyone else noticed an increase in this sort of thing?


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

William P said:


> My brother who commutes through Overtown ( the worst part of Miami) had to do a "swerve and sprint" to escape a mugger who he assumes was after his bike. He heard of another case of the same thing happening to someone else the next day. We don't know if the other guy escaped. Apparently high unemployment, and high gas prices are making bikes a prime target of thieves even when being ridden. Has anyone else noticed an increase in this sort of thing?


Given he lives in FL and rides thru places like that I hope he is armed. You guys
do have CCW/CHL.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

He's moving to New York where it's safe!


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## norm (Feb 20, 2005)

Its happen here in Hamilton, Ontario(according to the LBS). Not good. It was a bunch of loser teenager kids. The cyclist was hit with some type of glass object, which has caused blindness in one eye. WTF is wrong with people.....


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I've heard that it's happening in the Tampa area, that it's gangs and people are getting seriously injured. Maybe commuters need to start riding in groups whenever possible. Just imagine telling someone you have to catch the 8 o'clock peleton for downtown!


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

A group of guys ripped a college student off a bike, beat him, took his bag and his bike. If someone gets my bike, good luck riding it. They get on, go twenty feet, realize that the frame fits someone 6'5", they can't clip into the eggbeaters, and it's a brakeless fixed gear. Instant crash.


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## dnoyeb (Sep 23, 2007)

Carry a polearm.

Truthfully, people don't seem to know how much bikes cost these days. Lets hope it stays that way.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

^ +1 I would like to see the sport expand, but I'm scared that people will realize bikes can be upwards of 2 grand, and bike theft will be on the rise.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Move to Flint Michigan, it's safer. The crack heads are too high to chase you down and it's funny as hell to turn and watch them try, as the stumble and fall...the key to avoiding this sort of thing is obvious, avoid those areas and if it's not an option, haul azz. I do pass through some areas that are pretty dicey. I often change the pattern of my route, those crackies will pattern you and expect you on a regular basis. When I'm going through these areas, I'm pacing around 20-25mph. If a slap happy chump is going to try and jack me, well they're going to get the force of 210 pounds flying into them at that speed...and I wear a helmet...lol


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

He does all the route changing stuff,and he got a 29er so he can haul a$$. But this time he had to work late and had his headlight on strobe riding home in traffic, so the guy could see him coming. The guy did the ghetto shuffle out to the median and tried to jump him from there.


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## rckhopper87 (Jan 25, 2008)

This is pretty scary to think of. Luckily I live in not really a bad area but neighboring cities may be a bit different. For those of you who may be in danger; maybe pepper spray? If not this then carry a sword on your back.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

TrekJeff said:


> If a slap happy chump is going to try and jack me, well they're going to get the force of 210 pounds flying into them at that speed...and I wear a helmet...lol


I think this is why people tend to stay out of my way too. 215lbs + bike at 20-25mph is going to hurt both of us.


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## Zero Signal (Aug 17, 2007)

nachomc said:


> I think this is why people tend to stay out of my way too. 215lbs + bike at 20-25mph is going to hurt both of us.


I'm the same weight and assumed that if it was one person, he's going to get rammed big time and I'm not too hurt, then my bike will become a 19lb bludgeoning device. If it's more than one guy, I'll only hope to see them in time to turn around asap. Luckily I don't ride around in alleys, it would be hard to take me by suprise (unless they jump out of a car).


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

Guess that's a good excuse for not being a weight weenie, my 30-32lb hardtail would make a nice weapon. I also ride on open streets only (occasional commute to school when I don't feel like taking the bus, otherwise I save my energy for my MTB rides)


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

another option is to carry a bunch of crushed moth balls. When the crack head jumps out, just drop a hand full on the road, the fiend will be scowering the road


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

This wasn't a back alley, it was Biscayne Blvd.a main north south 4 lane road.
I'm over 200# myself so I know about playing the BigBoy card. But he happens to be an average sized guy. I don't think I could recommend he gain 30-40# since being light probably helped him evade this guy.
I'm hoping this was an isolated incident, and not the shape of things to come.


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## _daemon_ (Sep 16, 2007)

I live in South Africa...happens quite often here, even in good areas. I ride with SWAT grade pepperspray on a quick release buckle strapped to my camelbak shoulder strap.


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## z rocks (Jul 5, 2007)

Riding home late one night from my restaurant job I came close to a mugging. There was a 3/4 mile long hill just before my home. It was about 11pm as i went up the hill past a big jail tatted monster. As i ride by he leapt off the sidewalk and clocked me in the side of the head, I managed to see through the stars and keep my bike upright. I stood up and hammered as hard as i could. I look back and this guys two accomplices are chasing me on BMX bikes. Thankfully i eluded the 3 of them. Of course the Albuquerque NM police didn't do shyt because violence is common there. When i told them about the incident they were more interested in getting my name and ssn to see if they could take ME in. Azoles. That was the last time i commuted to that job by bike. What makes any of you think you will have time to get the pepper spray out and subdue 3 mofos who want yer stuff? Good luck witht that. Don't get shanked trying to spray tabasco sauce at somebody!


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Have you had to use it? If so I'd like to know how it worked out.
We're allowed to carry concealed weapons here (guns with proper license), but they have no deterrent effect because they must be concealed. Also controlling a bike with one hand while under attack, and using a weapon with the other seems a lttle difficult. Are there any proven tactics or strategies that you know of? If someone looks like they'e doing something to intentionally cause me harm I ride straight at them and put them on the defensive. If someone looks suspicious do you display the weapon (in hand) as a detterent? I'd like to know what works.


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## z rocks (Jul 5, 2007)

. What about a short katana sword in a little scabbard under the camel back? I think a would be attacker may crap a load if a cyclist jumped off his bike into a Kenjitsu kata!!


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I hope he broke his hand on your helmet.


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## z rocks (Jul 5, 2007)

Actually he got me right in the ear. It swelled up and the side of my head turned purple. Oh yeah right before the guy jumped he goes "Hey man, nice bike." It was a red Voodoo HooDoo


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

These clowns would probably jump you just to see what's in your Camelback. I don't think they're smart enough to know it's just full of water.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

My brother was looking to buy a bright red Cannondale Headshock, but got a gray Gary Fisher instead. That bright red bike just screamed "STEAL ME"!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Use a lower priced bike (beater bike) when you commute.Some buses have racks on them for bikes.Use trains when possible.(off-peak hours.And carry pepper spray & a weapon.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Also a loud whistle & an air horn of some type to alert others.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

It's bad enough you can't ride the color you want, now it has to be a piece of $hit too!
And then you don't ride it you put it on a buss!
I got him an air horn, maybe he'll start to use it.
Lets see Airhorn, pepper spray, and a gun. Three items and 2 hands (remember we're not riding anymore) the thief will probaly end up with at least one of them.
Rock, Paper, Scissors anyone?
Seriously I do appreciate the suggestions. This is something many of us may have to confront at some time. I'd like to sort out the problems here as much as possible beforehand.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

You have 3 items, you just pull the 1 or 2 most suitable for the situation. Other one remains safely concealed.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Hire this guy, he'll fit in your trunk bag!!


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## jivarie (Jan 30, 2008)

Get some pepper spray. That stuff will subdue almost anything. I've been sprayed myself. I'm telling you, you're almost completely in-capacitated afterwards. You can't breathe, you can't see and it hurts like hell. I reccomend counter assault Bear deterrent. It sprays 12-30 feet and empties in seven seconds. That stuff must pack a punch.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Now we're getting somewhere!


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Before you get bear spray, be sure to know how to use it, one little small spray with that stuff pointed with the wind in YOUR face..well you just did the mugger a favor. Odds are the slappy that's trying to jack you is in front...you are traveling towards him, spray that stuff and you roll right into your mist. Pepper spray would be the last on my list.


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## jivarie (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, now that we've heard the last item on your list. What's the first item?


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## z rocks (Jul 5, 2007)

What about a stun gun? They sound scary as hell! get a quick little holser for it.....ZAP!!!


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

jivarie said:


> Well, now that we've heard the last item on your list. What's the first item?


The first..God, second avoidance, third speed, fourth changing my route, fifth if all else fails, refer to the first.

You can go all out with pepper spray, clubs, guns, knives ect, but unless you have more ghetto street in you than the crack head looking to snake your bike, well you best defense is to just avoid the areas and if you can't do that, then minimize your time. It doesn't matter what you think you have to protect yourself, if they want it, they will take it. If you play in a snake pit, you're going to get bit.:thumbsup:


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I think every squirrel in Miami already has at least one of those.


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## mtb416 (Apr 22, 2008)

Avoidance is the only chance you have. At night EVERYONE you see on your bike is an enemy I say. Drunk teenagers love throwing crap out there windows at people. The trash and bums on the street love to jack people. Ride where you have an escape path on either side. Ride in low crime areas, even if that means extending your commute. Know self defense and switch up your routes, these are the only things you can do.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

It's really the...(sob)...saddest thing.I started commuting 14 years ago when I first started MTBing.I have white tires,lights,3 different sizes of panniers,a snow suit&ski goggles for riding in a snow storm,a rain suit,the whole 9.Now I can't even ride no more even in a blizzard.(Which I have done more than once.Crazy drivers,muggers,& hecklers took care of that for me. ...And get this guys...On one job I worked at,every day somebody kept on sticking a small pin in my rear tire so by the end of the day my tire would be flat! Every day! ...Be careful where you store your bike after you commute.And pray for mercy.---zarr I'm sorry for feeling so emotional.(and religious) God bless you all.  P.S.- But don't let nothing stop you.I promise you,I won't.I love my bike & I'm gonna keep on riding.Diabetic ulcerated amputated toe foot and all.


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## tpm7 (May 14, 2007)

Well... this has made me look forward to my commute next year... :bluefrown: ... especially because in Canada we can't have a concealed weapon, or as I believe, pepper spray either... I am going to be commuting in downtown of Ottawa, Canada's capital city so I would hope crime would be lesser, but all big cities have their problems... so my primary deterrent was making my beater bike look like a total piece of s*** (pics here: https://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/tpm7/) because there's no way in heck that I would EVER consider riding my Banshee Viento down city streets, at least streets that I'm so far not familiar with... Any suggestions for my situation other than hope and pray and bike like the wind???


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## mtb416 (Apr 22, 2008)

One more thing I will recommend is a high intensity flashlight, like a SureFire flashlight. These are the best lights in the world IMO and are definitely a self defense device. Buy a cheap G2 (their cheapest, $36), which takes 2 123a lithiums, or pay (alot) more and get one that uses 1 123a, that is a mere 4 inches long, but is close to the 65 lumens the G2 produces. If you have ever been shot in the eyes with a Surefire at night you know, it literally hurts your retinas and causes momentary blindness. The smaller ones that use 1 123a come with clips to allow for attachment to the bill of a hat or to a shoulder strap for quick retrieval. The momentary on switch on the end cap of Surefires are also extremely quick to use. By the way, I am in no way affiliated with Surefire, they just make a superior product.


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

William P said:


> I've heard that it's happening in the Tampa area, that it's gangs and people are getting seriously injured. Maybe commuters need to start riding in groups whenever possible. Just imagine telling someone you have to catch the 8 o'clock peleton for downtown!


I'm in Tampa, and commute. I haven't heard of this, but I'm gonna research it. But maybe I should start riding my fixie to work.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

mtb416 said:


> One more thing I will recommend is a high intensity flashlight, like a SureFire flashlight. These are the best lights in the world IMO and are definitely a self defense device. Buy a cheap G2 (their cheapest, $36), which takes 2 123a lithiums, or pay (alot) more and get one that uses 1 123a, that is a mere 4 inches long, but is close to the 65 lumens the G2 produces. If you have ever been shot in the eyes with a Surefire at night you know, it literally hurts your retinas and causes momentary blindness. The smaller ones that use 1 123a come with clips to allow for attachment to the bill of a hat or to a shoulder strap for quick retrieval. The momentary on switch on the end cap of Surefires are also extremely quick to use. By the way, I am in no way affiliated with Surefire, they just make a superior product.


Excellent suggestion. When I worked as a park ranger my mag light was first form of defense for dogs at night, Hit them in the eyes with that beem and they are lost.


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## IrishHoosier (Apr 21, 2008)

I would not suggest you carry a gun if you are asking wether to pull it out as a deterrent. A gun should never be pulled out unless you have expired all other options and you HAVE to use it. I am a CC guy who carries a gun 90% of the time, biking or not. I have been in situations where it might be easy to flash my gun to get the aggressor to leave me alone, but I always leave it in my belt. If it ever comes out, somebody is going to get shot, be it me or him. Also, remember this, a person who carries a gun is more likely to get shot. This is because so many people "flash" their gun as a deterrent. Stick with the pepper spray.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

These incidents were reported to me by my mother, who lives in Winter Haven. So they may be ocurring in the Lakeland area. I used Tampa as the nearest city people on this site would have heard of.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I agree with you. I was just making the point that a concealed weapon is not a deterrent (avoidance), and if you're attacked you've just added another variable to an aready hard to control situation. If you're trying to control a bike, defend yourself while being attacked,and avoid serious injury in the almost inevitable crash, I don't think a gun is going to improve you're chances of survival. You'll be lucky if it just gets stolen. The observations about pepper spray are valid also, there is almost always a strong breeze off the ocean here, coupled with the motion of the bike makes it about a 1/3 chance the attack will come from a favorable direction to use the stuff. I think group riding, especially at night seems to make sense. Attack seems less likely, and the members not being attacked can respond as need, with whatever level of force seems appropriate. If alone at night allowing your bike to be a hood ornament on a buss seems like a viable option.
I used to think I was paranoid about being assaulted by pedestians I was passing head on. Then I went to a local store, and the clerk I knew had a huge black eye. You guessed it, he got popped in the face for no reason by a ped. Another time I was riding towards traffic in a bike lane (not provided on both sides of road) and I noticed cars were edging into the lane as they approached. I started riding with my water bottle in my hand, and making eye contact, and I started getting my 3' clearance as they passed.


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## shmrcksean (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm a police officer in California and commute one day a week (I only work three) and leave at 4am to ride in. I live in OC and commute thru 3 decent, low crime cities into work but the possibilities are always there. I carry a little .380 in my baggy shorts pocket and if I'm ever robbed / mugged, it will come out and be used. Being in fear of your life and / or safety is all the reason I need to use it. And since the taking of property by force or fear is the definition of robbery, it seems to meet the requirements.

Now with that in mind, I'll weigh my options if it ever happens. Obviously, I can't quick draw from baggy shorts and beat a guy who already has me at gun point but hey, he has to either get on the bike and/or put it in his car. That will require the use of his both his hands and or a little distraction!


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## Slyp Dawg (Oct 13, 2007)

man, makes me really wonder about how good an idea it is for me to be commuting to and from school each non-rainy/snowy/thunderstormy day of the week on my bike, or to be commuting to the james river trails 15 some odd miles each way on my bike. some areas are just plain not safe feeling. now I'm fine once I get within a block or two of the parkinglot for the trails because there is a museum right by there and about three blocks up one street there are never any less than 4 squad cars parked in the same parkinglot, but up until that point some of the areas can be a bit sketchy. the closest I've come is having a kid from school try and fail at getting me off my bike, but if he did manage to I would have no reservations with pulling the seat off and putting him on the defensive, despite the fact that school rules apply to me until I walk through my front door, and school rules effectively say that even if I'm in the process of getting beaten up and having my stuff stolen, I can't do anything to put the other person on the defensive. eff that, it's my thousand dollar bike, if you want it you're going to have to suffer more than a few broken bones and a good ten minutes of fighting me to get it. and you still won't have a seat, and my seatpost is a 31.6mm unit so not much from any wallyworld bikes is going to work with it unless you shim it with some PVC pipe


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Interesting tactic*

I see the possibility of letting him have the bike (assuming only one) then he's at the disadvantage. Hmmmmm.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

It's quite unfortunate that I have a CCL in Ohio, but cannot carry on campus property so when I commute to college I can't take my 9mm. I do carry it though on back roads rides because I have had the unfortunate experience of teenagers trying to run me off the road. They stopped when I pulled my gun out and just flashed it towards them. As for the gun being used on me if I was ever mugged at night, well I'd rather have the gun and have a chance to use it on the person attacking me than be completely unarmed.

It just sucks that some people like to prey on other people for a quick buck. I don't even use my lights anymore on the local bike path at night because I am afraid some idiot will see the light and be ready for me. The light is only used on highway riding now.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

To shmrcksean Let's see here. He's stolen my bike, and I take my gun and shoot him. Then there's an investigation. Two facts, he's dead, and I shot him. Since he had the bike, his hands were full and he was no longer a threat to me. But I had a gun and shot him. Now I guess you would have to come and arrest me. If I objected to this you would probably have to shoot me. As far as witnesses go, probably no one noticed anything until the gunshot. Then everybody is looking. Some of them probably his friends. Hmmmmmmmmm.


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## mtb416 (Apr 22, 2008)

Yes William, you have hit it on the head, shooting a robber in such a way could surely end badly for the shooter. I am a college student and have many friends with concealed licenses. First of all there is the weight, a 9mm Berreta, which is standard for many CC, weighs a few pounds loaded and adds a lot of weight, not to mention is clumsy for use on a bike. But most of all, there is no easy way to pull out a gun on a bike. And Dr. Nickels, they DO ALLOW students in Utah to carry onto theirs campuses, so if you feel compelled to do so as well contact your state representative. Forget about carrying an "offensive" weapon, go out and get a high intensity flashlight, take some self defense courses, and get some pepper spray. I don't remember the exact statistic, but around 40% of the time that people have weapons they end up losing it and the criminal uses it on them. Guns have their purpose for personal protection, but using one for protection on a bike just seems like too much of a liability. How long till LoJack gets put on bikes?!


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

William P said:


> To shmrcksean Let's see here. He's stolen my bike, and I take my gun and shoot him. Then there's an investigation. Two facts, he's dead, and I shot him. Since he had the bike, his hands were full and he was no longer a threat to me. But I had a gun and shot him. Now I guess you would have to come and arrest me. If I objected to this you would probably have to shoot me. As far as witnesses go, probably no one noticed anything until the gunshot. Then everybody is looking. Some of them probably his friends. Hmmmmmmmmm.


I guess we read it differently. I see it as him saying that he can draw on him and get ahold of the situation when the crook has to let his guard down to load the bike up or get on it. Not neccissarially shooting him, but getting the upper hand and being able to hold him till help comes or whatever. If he really is a cop as he claims then I am pretty sure he has enough sense not to be shooting someone in the back as they pedal away.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> And Dr. Nickels, they DO ALLOW students in Utah to carry onto theirs campuses, so if you feel compelled to do so as well contact your state representative.


Yep, there is a group on campus that is really pushing for concealed carry on our college campus. I like the idea that Utah has. Wish we'd get it here in Ohio. As for the flash light idea. I do own a surefire flashlight and that sucker is bright. I carry it with me while on rides for the exact purpose you described. That sucker is heavy, but damn it does blind people even at a pretty decent distance. I've also been known to carry a heavier bicycle pump in the side of my backpack which would make a good club if need be.

It just sucks people can't even ride their damn bike at night time without having to worry about some asshat mugging them.


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## mtb416 (Apr 22, 2008)

Yeah I feel you man, muggers creep me out. Since posting on this thread I have come to be much more aware and have noticed many things that could be deemed dangerous. Which Surefire do you own? They are all pretty light and small. My main one is the good ol' 6P, fits in your palm. Not to stray to far from the topic at hand, but about the gun thing. One of the many reasons the UT tower shooter was at least slowed down was because of students running back to their trucks and getting their deer rifles, one thing here in Texas we have plenty of. Many were deputized on the spot I believe.


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## wardfoto (Aug 12, 2007)

you should never, never, never flash a gun at an attacker. flashing the gun does three things that all have the potential of ending very badly. 1. now the attacker knows you are armed, and escalates the level of attack. 2. now if he gets the upper hand, he knows WHERE your gun is. 3. he turns the tables and uses it on you.
while 2 and 3 seem to be a continuation of each other, they are not necessarily. perhaps he just takes your gun, you get lucky, and he leaves. now, he's got your gun, and the next victim he uses it on. your call, but now you've got that on your conscience.
IF, and i mean IF, your are gonna carry concealed, when you pull that gun, be sure that it is in your hand, safety off, and ready to fire. once the gun is introduced, there is no turning back, and you MUST be willing to take the life of that attacker. period. if you don't have the will, or strength to actually pull that trigger and take the life of that attacker, please don't carry your gun. i'd rather you lose your bike than your life.
now, as to what to do, if you are riding fast, make sure you aren't maxing out, so you've got room to sprint out to max, and burn 'em down. bright lights are good, but you've still gotta have a free hand to operate, unless you can remote mount a switch for an instant on kinda thing.
beater bike is probably the best option, for a couple of reasons. 1. it doesn't scream expensive, which may or may not help. 2. typically heavy, so if you had the chance to swing it, it'll hurt the attacker pretty good. bear in mind that VALUE of a beater will probably not play into it, unless the attacker is a pro, and knows bikes. if the attacker doesn't know bikes, and chances are very high that they don't, then it's still just a bike to them, and that's all that matters. and there are plenty of people out there that think that next bike at wally world is the bomb, and would steal it from you because it's got dual suspension.
be safe, plan your routes, vary your routine as much as possible, file a flight plan with a buddy, a girlfriend, your parents, your boss, whoever. call when leaving, tell them which route you are riding, and if they are not at your destination, call when you arrive. this way, if you haven't checked in reasonably to when you expected to arrive, somebody, besides you and the attacker, knows there is a problem.
group ride where possible, and failing most of that, drive, bus, or carpool home, but just get home. save the environment is fine, but keep your self safe first and foremost. 
just my opinions, take them as you may, and be safe. being aware is the number one way of avoiding crime. know what's going on around you as much as possible, and try not to ride with your head down. looking around, and looking confident will deter lots of crimes that may occur because you look like an easy target.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I don't have anything against guns or CCW. But guns are a stand off weapon. not very prctical for close quarters, and if you have enough control of the situation to make it a stand off fight the use of a gun may become questionable. If an off duty cop plugs a thug it's a job well done. But I think for the rest of us it might play out differently. If you shoot someone and ride away on your bike the words "fleeing felon", and "armed and dangerous" might be used to describe you. A gun might make more sense out in the countryside, but I'm not real sure why. The flashlights seem interesting,close quarters, and some standoff capability. Do they make a laser version?


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## wardfoto (Aug 12, 2007)

big snip
'If you shoot someone and ride away on your bike"
snip

never, never, never do this. if you have to shoot, do not leave the scene afterwards, you are asking for more trouble than you care for.


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## shmrcksean (Jun 15, 2004)

Why is everyone so hung up on shooting him in the back. Here in California we have what we call the "fleeing felon" rule. You (or I should say I...being the police) can shoot a fleeing felon if they pose a threat to the public. Therefore, a robbery suspect (especially an armed one) can be shot in the back, front, or anywhere even after he runs, rides, drives away.

I'm not blood thirsty by any means. But I have NO PROBLEM using violence against someone who has used it against me. 

I'm sure there will be people who find that criminal or unethical or whatever. But it's within the scope of the law. The law actually allows us to do it to prevent further violence against the public.


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## mtb416 (Apr 22, 2008)

shmrocksean, if you trust the ridiculous court system in California, not to mention a jury of your "peers" to not convict you for shooting a man in the back be by guest. But I wouldn't even try it here in Texas. A man in Pasadena, TX recently shot and killed robbers that were getting into a neighbors house. The incident is still under investigation as to whether or not he had the right.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

My point is that if a cyclist with CCW shoots a mugger, recovers his bike and rides away to a safer location. The cyclist (former victim) could be percieved by the police as a fleeing felon (muderer), who is armed and dangerous (obviously). I think what happens next is spelled out in your response above. You've made my point perfectly. If a civilian were to take your advice,carry a gun, and shoot a mugger, you would feel free to shoot him in the back. Thanks ,but no thanks. 

Are civilians (vigilantes) allowed to shoot fleeing felons, or just police?
Is bicycle theft, or simple assault, a felony or not?
I suppose assaulting a police officer would be, right?

I'm not sure you live live in exactly the same world as the rest of us. 
But then again I appreciate that you have to deal with situations that I don't.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I like your stuff wardfoto.
I think the guy from Ohio has a point. Cars running you off the road are threatening your life, and a gun would be appropriate. But killing someone to keep a bicycle is probably going to end up being more trouble for you than the bike is worth. Even if you don't get yourself killed in the process.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

I live by this motto with concealed carry. "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

If I ever think my life is in danger or someone starts violence against me, if the gun comes out, odds are it's about to be used to take someone down. I have no reservations in shooting someone who attacks me. They have no respect for my life or my property, therefore, I have no respect for their life and will end it if they threaten my life. That's the problem with the world we are always blaming the victim and not the criminal. A criminal robs a house attacks a family and ties them up or beats them profusely and one of the family members gets loose and shoots the robber paralyzing him. Next thing you know the robber is suing the family in civil suit because he got shot and will win! WTF!!!!! 

The way I see it, you start violence or crime against a law-abiding citizen then you better be ready to eat a lead salad.


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## Doggity (Mar 27, 2007)

It's sad it's come to this. There's a book out about this very topic named 'The Wilding of America". Bottom line, you're on two wheels, you are VUNERABLE, and the pukes know it. So, avoiding the areas you know are more likely to be puke-infested is about your best option. I'm not against CCW at all, but I think in the situations described it's _really_ risky, if for no other reason it gives you false confidence. Besides, I find it _way_ too difficult to control both the bike and the recoil of my .44 simultaneously


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

*Stupidity*



mtb416 said:


> shmrocksean, if you trust the ridiculous court system in California, not to mention a jury of your "peers" to not convict you for shooting a man in the back be by guest. But I wouldn't even try it here in Texas. A man in Pasadena, TX recently shot and killed robbers that were getting into a neighbors house. The incident is still under investigation as to whether or not he had the right.


Cali Courts.....OJ

I'm getting a kick out of everyone on here talking about packing while riding. Even cops that are on bike patrol will tell you that drawing and taking a shot while on a bike is a stupid move. Believe me, I'm by no means an anti-gunner... I have plenty of remingtons, two smiths, a beauty of a ruger and a ankle grabber berretta. But common sense needs to prevail when using guns. To carry on a bike with the intent of drawing down is just plain irresponsible. Think about it...what is the value of your bike compared to killing some one?? If you rode a $2,000 bike, would you take the offer of offing somone for $2000 cash? If your answer is yes, then you've got bigger problems than a crack head on your commute.


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## jivarie (Jan 30, 2008)

Pepper spray gel = no mist! Not to mention, it sticks to your muggers face.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/05/chilli-napalm-b.html


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Great advice!

Even if you shoot like Doc Holiday and never miss, and you are 100% legal in you use of deadly force, plus have the stomach for killing, I guaranty your court cost will still exceed the bikes value.

I am all for gun ownership but if anyone who reads this is going to own and carry one please please please practice OFTEN, take good training (not just target shooting) I dont want to get blasted in your shoot out.

I shoot almost every day for years (target) and know for a fact under stress there was NO way I was safe enough to be using a pistol for defense



TrekJeff said:


> Cali Courts.....OJ
> 
> I'm getting a kick out of everyone on here talking about packing while riding. Even cops that are on bike patrol will tell you that drawing and taking a shot while on a bike is a stupid move. Believe me, I'm by no means an anti-gunner... I have plenty of remingtons, two smiths, a beauty of a ruger and a ankle grabber berretta. But common sense needs to prevail when using guns. To carry on a bike with the intent of drawing down is just plain irresponsible. Think about it...what is the value of your bike compared to killing some one?? If you rode a $2,000 bike, would you take the offer of offing somone for $2000 cash? If your answer is yes, then you've got bigger problems than a crack head on your commute.


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## shmrcksean (Jun 15, 2004)

Doggity...try getting yourself into a Bicycle Patrol Tactics school. There they will teach you how to ride and shoot (useful on handling your recoil issue), use your bike as cover, slide take-downs (just like that Pacific Blue t.v. show), as well as other useful commuting tactics


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Aren't there some prerequisites for that?*

Sounds like you'd have to become a cop first. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Bottom line, if you ask any cop that's on a bike patrol unit, they'll laugh at you when you ask if they train to shoot from the bike. Their first response will be to dismount cyclocross style, power slide style etc, get a solid foundation THEN if the situation warrants, draw for a shot. He may be the same cop that will be was laughing his asz off arresting you for murder. With out getting into a CCW debate, those who think about carrying may want to educate yourselves on the ramifications of such a thing. In Michigan they are very distinct, bottom line, if you brandish a firearm, your life better be in extreme danger and when the cops get there you better not have one round left in your gun ...some of you just watch too much "Die Hard" movies


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

I am an expert in commuting in bad neighborhoods, having lived in the Bronx, East Buffalo, New Orleans, Hartford, and now the Mission District of San Francisco.

First of all, keep your eyes open. Any possible thief will not be standing on the road but on the sidewalk. If I see a bunch of people on a street corner, I ride in the middle of the road, away from them. If someone is coming at me, then I ride in the opposite direction. And I don't stop for red lights (it is not like inner-city cops are looking for scofflaw cyclists).

I love the advice about carrying guns and knives on bike rides. If you have a u-lock, you have all the weapon you need. But keep in mind you are vulnerable on two wheels, so pulling a gun is not going to stop you from being taken off your bike.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

William P said:


> Are civilians (vigilantes) allowed to shoot fleeing felons, or just police?


In Texas we make very, very little distinction between cops and non cops.
One exception is that non cops can shot over felony theft after dusk and
before dawn, cops can't do that.

William P, why do you consider non cops civilians? Cops are not in 
the military. Also, shooting a fleeing felon is not being a vigilante, that implies
doling out justice AFTER the fact. And by law this is not what we are discussing.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

why hasn't anyone mention taser? 
A taser will incapacitate the mugger for 20min which will give the victim plenty of time to escape.

You can buy a high intensity LED flashlight from other brand name besides Surefire.


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

I don't see how shooting someone over your bike really solves any problems. Now you have a dead guy and local media reporting that all bicyclists are crazy serial killers . If you do in fact pull a gun and shoot it, leaving the scene is _the_ worst thing you' can do. If you stay, the thug probably has some friends that were his cover for the incident. They won't be too happy that you just shot a guy over a human-powered vehicle.

The answer is incapacitating weapons. Pepper spray is going to work just as well as a 9mm. Really bright flashlights work just as well, but flopping a U-lock across his skull gets the message across too. Carry a cell to call the cops if you want to get the guy in jail. Best defense yet? Ride faster, turn harder, flick him off harder:








Seriously, giving the finger can say that you are in charge, and not afraid of some punk on his feet.


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## gmule (May 18, 2008)

> I don't see how shooting someone over your bike really solves any problems. Now you have a dead guy and local media reporting that all bicyclists are crazy serial killers


Being labled crazy and a serial killer could make the perps think twice before assulting a bicyclist.


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## rearviewmirror (Jun 14, 2006)

Schmucker said:


> A group of guys ripped a college student off a bike, beat him, took his bag and his bike. If someone gets my bike, good luck riding it. They get on, go twenty feet, realize that the frame fits someone 6'5", they can't clip into the eggbeaters, and it's a brakeless fixed gear. Instant crash.


Ha.. I can't imagine someone jacking a fixed year. My friends who are avid cyclists have a hard time riding it for the first time. Hell even I sometimes forget I can't coast after being off the fixie for a while. No brakes is the nail in the coffin, in bike theft terms, hopefully literally.


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