# Lighter load.



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Always trying to go lighter. Need bring less stuff, how? Lots of years bikepacking, doing more off road now than say just on road touring. Rigid karate monkey. New England summer trips, temps 50-90 or so. I use an eno double nest hammock, tarp, plus bug net. Trangia stove, some of you go without? Basic multi tool, 2 tubes, a pump, 2 cables, a few bolts, 1 set bb7 pads, patch kit. Lighter tarp for sure, less clothes? Trips are usually 3-5 days. On bike keen sandals, flip flops for off, 2 pair bike shorts, raincoat and helmet cover. 1 wool t shirt, 1 long sleeve, 1 sweater. 1 long poly pro shirt, tights, wind pants and wind shirt. Poly pro hat 2-3 pair thin socks. I use a 55f bag and a 13 oz foam pad for the hammock. Thoughts? Plus food and water too. VT this past week was rainy and cold for some days.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

You look pretty light to me. I found on my last trip that I only used my alcohol stove to eat once. The rest of the time I grabbed food while on the road or ate food cold. Of course if you're in the wilderness, you won't likely be grabbing food on the go, but you could still eat cold food. On the other hand, I did use my alcohol multiple times to make coffee. I've been trying to decide if it's worth carrying the stove and extra fuel and a pot and some kind of brewing system all just to make coffee. Currently I'm thinking that it's still worthwhile even if that's all I do. Might depend on the trip. Also I've been experimenting with cold-brew coffee, which might be acceptable in some situations.

Not sure about weight, but volume-wise, I find an underquilt packs a lot better than a pad, and it's more comfortable and more functional. Likewise an overquilt can often take up less space and be lighter than a sleeping bag. I have a 30/40 degree quilt that takes up around the same amount of space as my summer-weight sleeping bag.

I wear regular Keen sandals all the time. Nothing extra for off bike. Footwear is a pain, and I tried to bring a 2nd pair of shoes once, but they took up too much room in my bags, so I hung them outside my bag. Got to camp and only had one. Lately, unless I have a specific situation in mind where I'll need them, I only bring what I'm wearing.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Try flip flops, those cheap very light rubber footwear. I use the starbucks via instant coffee. Really not bad. Oatmeal too, plus some of those 1/2 oz creamers that don't needed to be refrigerated. My 55 F bag is the size of a cantaloupe. On a very sad note, I found that cask strength bourbon will work in my stove.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes, clothing.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

To go light you could ditch the Trangia and fuel and just bring a little take-apart wood stove. I got one, I can't remember the name but I can find it if you want. Amazingly small, it is about 5" x 3" x 1/4".

On the other hand you have to bring a pot with you anyways so if the Trangia fits in there it isn't taking any extra space although you need the wind shield and pot stand etc.


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## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

leeboh said:


> Try flip flops, those cheap very light rubber footwear. I use the starbucks via instant coffee. Really not bad. Oatmeal too, plus some of those 1/2 oz creamers that don't needed to be refrigerated. My 55 F bag is the size of a cantaloupe. On a very sad note, I found that cask strength bourbon will work in my stove.


I shed a tear reading that line about the bourbon......there is obviously a story begging to be told on that one......

I also think the Via coffee is pretty good even though I'm no S-bucks fan overall....


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

leeboh said:


> ....On bike keen sandals, flip flops for off, 2 pair bike shorts, raincoat and helmet cover. 1 wool t shirt, 1 long sleeve, 1 sweater. 1 long poly pro shirt, tights, wind pants and wind shirt. Poly pro hat 2-3 pair thin socks.....


This area of your post seems to have clothing redundancy and you might be able to shed. All depending on weather of course. At the coldest point, expect to use everything you are carrying. In other words, up top you'd have wool t-shirt, long sleeve, sweater, poly pro, wind shirt and rain jacket. That seems like a lot for the top part of the body. What could be left behind or substituted? Arm warmers with the wool t-shirt could replace the long sleeves. Wind shirt and rain jacket doing the same thing? Jacket might be warmer, but seems like you don't need both.

Just food for thought....I travel really cold and leaving clothing behind has been a big experiment for me.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Iowagriz said:


> This area of your post seems to have clothing redundancy and you might be able to shed. All depending on weather of course. At the coldest point, expect to use everything you are carrying. In other words, up top you'd have wool t-shirt, long sleeve, sweater, poly pro, wind shirt and rain jacket. That seems like a lot for the top part of the body. What could be left behind or substituted? Arm warmers with the wool t-shirt could replace the long sleeves. Wind shirt and rain jacket doing the same thing? Jacket might be warmer, but seems like you don't need both.
> 
> Just food for thought....I travel really cold and leaving clothing behind has been a big experiment for me.


Been cold and wet, not fun. My monday ride last week saw 8 hrs of rain and 10 hrs of saddle time getting up to the South end og the green Mt Nat. forest, VT. Was low 50's. Night I had tights, dry socks, wool long sleeve shirt and thin wool sweater, plus poly pro hat. Just enough to stay warm. The wind shirt and pants are just thin light weight poly, have the permethrin spray on them, great barrier for wicked bugs and mosquitoes. 
Mark, have seen the tiny twig stoves that go flat, sometimes there are fire bans, as well as all day rain events. The trangia stove and click stand fit right inside the pot, works well. 
River, had bourbon but no fuel, 7 am really wanted hot coffee and oatmeal. Considered drinking the 3 shots , thought better of it and picked up beer with dinner.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

IMO the allure of a short trip is the solid bluebird forecast and the light kit that results. Following conditions is probably the best way for you to lighten up, and, if done, you can take your normal mountain biking kit plus not much extra. Love to go in terrible weather? Expect more gear.

I think a quick isobutane stove is a more valuable tool for poor weather than a bunch of clothing (storm gloves and shoe covers notwithstanding). That clothing will get wet inside and out and not be able to dry. The trailside tree tuck with your stove and comfort items accessible, is the way. For thawing out a rider, clothing can't compare to drinking hot water.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

My schedule does not allow for waiting for good conditions. Booked in advance for the summer stuff. So prepare for all. First time sort of cooler touring stuff in July in VT. Go figure. Wool base layers are awesome. Run time for those isobutane stoves?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

From one small (3.5 oz) fuel can I've gotten ~10 liters boiled with a regular model JetBoil at 6000-7500'. The Sol Ti is the fastest JB I've used, is solo sized. Snow Peak mini not nearly as miserly, but I doubt you can run the small can out in 3-5 days. Sorry, I don't know about run times.

If it looks crappy I'll toss my stove in my backpack so I can drop my bike wherever and get a good spot under the tree without effing around.


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## Scott n (Jul 18, 2017)

River19 said:


> I shed a tear reading that line about the bourbon......there is obviously a story begging to be told on that one......
> 
> I also think the Via coffee is pretty good even though I'm no S-bucks fan overall....


Try medaglio doro instant espresso. It's incredible.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I love my trangia stove. I really do!

...but I messed around with an Esbit stove this weekend checking weights and boil time. It boiled 2 cups of water in 8 minutes.

A wind screen and covered pot proved essential. The water didn't boil without either.

I didn't weigh the tabs but would guess they weigh 15 grams or so.










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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

More pictures comparing the trangia, a butane stove, and the esbit stove. These are just the stove, fuel, and windscreen. The pot is constant amongst all three and hence excluded.

The butane stove doesn't use a windscreen and lighter versions (like the BRS3000) are available - but they would only save 15-25 grams.

Trangia: 494 grams
Butane stove + canister: 289 grams
Esbit stove, 5 tabs and foil windscreen: 53 grams

Even though I'm seeing these weights just like you, I still LOVE my Trangia. I'd need to field test the esbit a couple times to make the switch.










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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

How does the boil time compare between Trangia and Esbit? I have one cookset that can use either one (Esbit makes their own version of the Trangia burner), and I feel like the alcohol burner heats up the water faster, but I've never actually done a comparison test. I have actually carried alcohol and Esbit tablets on shorter trips, and added a small, titanium piece to sit on the alcohol burner so I could boil some water for coffee while cooking up some breakfast with the Esbit stove. Of course that's going to weigh plenty more than your set-ups, but it was handy on a trip where I didn't worry much about weight.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Haven't timed the trangia alcohol stove yet for boil. Maybe this weekend. Trips are curtailed this year for personal reasons. So I'm looking for things to do.

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## ChiefFlatFootNoBeard (Jan 14, 2013)

Personally, I stopped worrying about boil times when camping. 6 minutes versus 8 minutes versus whatever doesn't matter to me when I'm sitting just below treeline watching the sunset. But the weight difference starts to add up between my cook system, sleep, shelter, etc, so I fine giving up boil efficiency for weight.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

ChiefFlatFootNoBeard said:


> Personally, I stopped worrying about boil times when camping. 6 minutes versus 8 minutes versus whatever doesn't matter to me when I'm sitting just below treeline watching the sunset. But the weight difference starts to add up between my cook system, sleep, shelter, etc, so I fine giving up boil efficiency for weight.


Same. I'm not racing - a difference of a couple minutes in boil time is more time to relax and enjoy where I am.

Getting back to the original question, if you're going to be regularly riding in rain all day, your clothing choices seem reasonable to me. You could maybe save a little weight with a different hammock, and possibly looking at simplifying your hammock suspension system, though you didn't specify what you are using, so I'm not sure if there are gains to be made there or not. Same with tarp - not sure what tarp you are using, but maybe there are some weight savings to be had there as well.


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## alias (May 9, 2005)

One point to consider might be your two pairs of bike shorts, and three socks. I know everyone has a different level of gross that they are comfortable with, but that second pair of bike shorts and 3rd pair of socks is unnecessary volume in my eyes. I have two steps that may help you ditch that second pair of shorts: I have stopped using proper bike shorts for multi day trips, instead I wear fine merino boxers which are on another planet in regards to all day comfort as well as not even coming close to the nasty level of stink from multi day old plastic bike shorts. Riding without padded shorts takes a bit of getting used to, but for multi day trips is a great option, and if you take a second pair, the are much smaller / lighter than bike shorts. Second point is regarding your socks: I say regardless of what you are doing 2 pair is enough; one for the day and one for sleeping in / emergency dry layer. What good does a 3rd pair do in this situation? Also, is the sweater you listed wool or is it a super light down sweater? The weight a volume difference is notable.
You might say ‘hey its only a pair of shorts and socks, its not that heavy’ but in reality, we carry so little, that indeed shorts and socks end up making a percentual difference in the load volume.

For example: We just returned from 8 days self-supported through arctic Sweden and I wore one merino t shirt, merino undies and socks for the duration of the trip, including the plane rides to and from Sweden. I was a bit apprehensive about doing this, but it freed up space in my pack and would absolutely do it again in this way. Note that we were prepared for and encountered brutal wind and rain as well as two days of snow and were wet every day from river crossings. I slept warm and cozy the whole time in my night / emergency layers….my point is we did not skip important safety layers such as a puffy and proper rainwear. The key is to change into your night layers when you get to camp and give the day layers as many hours as possible to air out. Giving your junk a quick rinse in a creek once in a while doesn’t hurt either…


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

ChiefFlatFootNoBeard said:


> Personally, I stopped worrying about boil times when camping. 6 minutes versus 8 minutes versus whatever doesn't matter to me when I'm sitting just below treeline watching the sunset.


Agree! Field application rules; theory drools.

Run/boil times matter little to me. When I'm cramped into a dry spot in the rain, I want a stove that's easy to use and reasonably efficient. Jetboil Sol Ti is best in that regard because there's minimal stuff to knock over and keep in place, and thus smallest chance of starting a fire in the dry fuel under the tree. But you won't find that info in any stove test or mfr literature...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> Same. I'm not racing - a difference of a couple minutes in boil time is more time to relax and enjoy where I am.
> 
> Getting back to the original question, if you're going to be regularly riding in rain all day, your clothing choices seem reasonable to me. You could maybe save a little weight with a different hammock, and possibly looking at simplifying your hammock suspension system, though you didn't specify what you are using, so I'm not sure if there are gains to be made there or not. Same with tarp - not sure what tarp you are using, but maybe there are some weight savings to be had there as well.


 Yup, lots of weight savings to be had there. Lots. Working on it bit by bit. Last SO24 I took a foam pad, a bug net and a thin poncho for shelter with no rain in the forecast. Made a slick triangle of sorts to drape the bug net and poncho over.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

alias said:


> One point to consider might be your two pairs of bike shorts, and three socks. I know everyone has a different level of gross that they are comfortable with, but that second pair of bike shorts and 3rd pair of socks is unnecessary volume in my eyes. I have two steps that may help you ditch that second pair of shorts: I have stopped using proper bike shorts for multi day trips, instead I wear fine merino boxers which are on another planet in regards to all day comfort as well as not even coming close to the nasty level of stink from multi day old plastic bike shorts. Riding without padded shorts takes a bit of getting used to, but for multi day trips is a great option, and if you take a second pair, the are much smaller / lighter than bike shorts. Second point is regarding your socks: I say regardless of what you are doing 2 pair is enough; one for the day and one for sleeping in / emergency dry layer. What good does a 3rd pair do in this situation? Also, is the sweater you listed wool or is it a super light down sweater? The weight a volume difference is notable.
> You might say 'hey its only a pair of shorts and socks, its not that heavy' but in reality, we carry so little, that indeed shorts and socks end up making a percentual difference in the load volume.
> 
> For example: We just returned from 8 days self-supported through arctic Sweden and I wore one merino t shirt, merino undies and socks for the duration of the trip, including the plane rides to and from Sweden. I was a bit apprehensive about doing this, but it freed up space in my pack and would absolutely do it again in this way. Note that we were prepared for and encountered brutal wind and rain as well as two days of snow and were wet every day from river crossings. I slept warm and cozy the whole time in my night / emergency layers&#8230;.my point is we did not skip important safety layers such as a puffy and proper rainwear. The key is to change into your night layers when you get to camp and give the day layers as many hours as possible to air out. Giving your junk a quick rinse in a creek once in a while doesn't hurt either&#8230;


 Every one has their comfort level. Looking at temps of 50-85 F, hence the warm and cool layers. I too am a fan of merino wool base layers. Wool sweater was a merino wool winter weight base layer. A light down puffy might be a good swap. Not giving up my 2 pair of mt bike padded shorts, most of my clothes I do launder when traveling, just need some sun and warmer days to do that.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

I've found you can spend all day drilling holes in your toothbrush, or you can leave a few things at home for 100x the gain. The lightest piece of gear is the one you don't bring. Here in New England you'd be hard pressed to find (and stupid to plan) a stretch more than 50 miles without some small town you can restock in. I usually end up carrying about 3l of water, my favorite jelly beans, and maybe a few more substantive snacks as backup in case I stock up wrong, but I can always count on buying meals along the way. 

Like I said, the lightest stove is the one you leave at home. Similarly, I'll map the amount of "camp" and "2nd day" layers based on the weather prediction and how much I think I'll be able to dry things out.

In the winter all that light weight goes out the window. I'll bring a stove, lots of extra fuel, layers and layers, and a really warm bag.


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## NickSmolinske (Mar 8, 2008)

I would try to bring one fewer layer. Personally I would ditch the t-shirt but that's probably a minority opinion. I find long sleeve shirts to be more versatile under a variety of conditions, and I wear a single longsleeve baselayer anywhere from 60 degrees (if active) to 90 degrees. Then again, I do live in the desert.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^ I find a thin wool t shirt an always take. Did an overnight last weekend. Same Karate Monkey, rigid fork this time with 3" tires. Took just a pad, tent with no fly and the 55 F bag. No stove as it was short and stores everywhere. Handlebar bag, medium frame bag and a long thin bag for the rear rack. No panniers. Impressed with the ability of the KM with 3" tires. Worked well for the dirt road, paved and singletrack. Except for the sweaty rocks. Saturday saw oppressive humidity and 80 F, rocks in the forest were all sweaty with green slime, did a little hike a bike.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I love my merino wool base layer. It's comfortable and puts my mind at ease about cold nights. It weighs 550g (1.21 lbs.) and cost me about $70.

I found a micro-fleece base layer on Amazon for ~$17 that weighs 336 g (0.74 lbs.) and saves 214 g (0.47 lbs.) over the merino wool. Plus it's not as bulky. Link here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y...microfiber&dpPl=1&dpID=31f9Nbi6inL&ref=plSrch

Hope to try the new base layer out this week.









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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

alias said:


> ...I have stopped using proper bike shorts for multi day trips, instead I wear fine merino boxers &#8230;


I assume you're wearing some kind of shorts over them?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Tested the lighter Amazon base-layer on an overnight hike*

I overnighted Tueday night on a _hike_ of the Tully Trail near Athol, MA. My total carry weight for the 22 mile loop _hike_ was 21 lbs.

I slept in the lean-to near Royalston Falls. Temps dropped to about 48-50F at night. My sleep system is an AegisMax Sleeping Bag (1 lb 5 oz) with a silk-liner (5.5 oz) on top of a Therma-rest Xlite NeoAir (13oz) pad.

I slept in the Amazon base-layer I posted above. I awoke in the middle of the night in a sweat. I was _hot_! I can endorse that base layer down to 48F.


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