# 2021 World Cup XCO-XCC



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Someone had to do it...

And here we go!!! First, some rumors out of Europe. Remember this are just rumors as reported by the Spanish MTB Website esmtb.com:

1. Jordan Sarrou moving to Specialized (apparently is was done or discussed before the World Champs). Could this open the door for Maxime Marrotte to join Absolute-Absalon?
2. Gerhard Kershbaumer moving to Specialized also.
3. Simon Andreassen going to another team as well as Alanhatherly. 
4. Jenny Risveds joining Specialized with Laura Stigger also. Haley Batten stays put.

As they say, this are just rumors. Here is the link:
https://esmtb.com/rumores-fichajes-2021-jordan-sarrou-equipo-specialized/


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I thought Risveds was already on Specialized? Or was it just a privateer team running Spech bikes?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

FYI: I sent a pm to a site supermod requesting them to swap the sticky from the old 2020 to this new 2021 thread. They did same for us last year.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah i have got them to sticky/unsticky the last few years... this year it seems i sent the request to myself...so that didnt work too well.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Jenny was on a privateer team of sorts, it was sponsored by an initiative to promote children to be active. Program 31 if you are curious. I think that Spec sponsored them completely though.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Circlip said:


> FYI: I sent a pm to a site supermod requesting them to swap the sticky from the old 2020 to this new 2021 thread. They did same for us last year.


Thanks!!!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

On other XCO topics, we (Puerto Rico) were awarded the 2021 Pan-AM Continental Championships. My guess is this could be a super fun race between Gerardo Ulloa and Avancini, plus the heavy hitters from USA and Canada. It is a super fast track with no many technical features but a lot a of climbing, jumps and huge banking berms. What I guarantee will decide the race is the heat and humidity!!! I think I can find some pictures of a 2020 event at the same track.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> On other XCO topics, we (Puerto Rico) were awarded the 2021 Pan-AM Continental Championships. My guess is this could be a super fun race between Gerardo Ulloa and Avancini, plus the heavy hitters from USA and Canada. It is a super fast track with no many technical features but a lot a of climbing, jumps and huge banking berms. What I guarantee will decide the race is the heat and humidity!!! I think I can find some pictures of a 2020 event at the same track.


That is cool...has a date been set?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.uci.org/mountain-bike/calendar/CompetitionDetail?competitionId=65048&year=2021

March 24-28 2021


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Plus, we have two UCI C1+Junior World Series...one of them in Feb 28 and the other one on March 21 at the same track of the Pan-Am Champs.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.brujulabike.com/rumours-transfer-market-2020/


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> https://www.brujulabike.com/rumours-transfer-market-2020/


Subscribed.

I liked the juicy rumors. Seems like big changes at Specialized. Although they've been a bit stagnant the last couple years so a shake up makes sense.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Have to say, they are some major rumours - and quite a shake up of things. And another one seen on Pinkbike; PFP moving from Canyon-Sram to Absolute-Absalon to replace Sarrou; and possibly connected, in that they have signed US track/ITT rider Chloe Dygart-Owen.
Also, rumours that Santa Cruz are making a XC bike and signing Marotte.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/2021-racing-rumours-round-up-1.html


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Have to say, they are some major rumours - and quite a shake up of things. And another one seen on Pinkbike; PFP moving from Canyon-Sram to Absolute-Absalon to replace Sarrou; and possibly connected, in that they have signed US track/ITT rider Chloe Dygart-Owen.
> Also, rumours that Santa Cruz are making a XC bike and signing Marotte.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/2021-racing-rumours-round-up-1.html


Not so fast...apparently, PFP is staying put as Canyon came in with more $$$.

Santa Criz alreadu has two XC bikes in the Blur and Highball. Thera was a team competing in them for the past few years. Santa Cruz FSA Pro Team or something like it with Andrea Tiberi in it, who btw, retired at the end of this year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-in...beri-knows-perseverance-interview-bike-check/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Jose Gerardo Ulloa, winner on the first XCC in Nove Mesto 2020 going to another team per his Facebook page...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> Jose Gerardo Ulloa, winner on the first XCC in Nove Mesto 2020 going to another team per his Facebook page...


Interesting, he said he will be independent, but many of his fans are saying he is going to Scott, not sure if that is wishful thinking or there is some truth to it.


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

Sounds like Sergio Manteco is leaving Kross and heading to a Spain based BH bikes team


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cal_len1 said:


> Jenny was on a privateer team of sorts, it was sponsored by an initiative to promote children to be active. Program 31 if you are curious. I think that Spec sponsored them completely though.


Team 31 was created by Jenny when she returned to the sport and while not part of the Specialized Factory Team she does receive factory support. IMPO, she's much happier doing her own thing and being supported. She created her own team to avoid the pressure of being on a factory team so I'm doubtful that she'll join. If she's had a change of heart on the subject it's not common knowledge.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Mantecon is joining MMR Factory Racing.

Emily Batty is leaving TFR. Perhaps joining her husbands new team?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

David Valero (SPA) is leaving MMR Factory Racing.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Annika Langvad did well today at the UCI E-sports world champs on zwift.. 6th!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Mantecon is joining MMR Factory Racing.
> 
> Emily Batty is leaving TFR. Perhaps joining her husbands new team?


What team is that?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> What team is that?


I don't think an official name has been announced yet for Morka's new team project, or under what style of sponsorship (primary branding or some packaged collection of sponsors).


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

It makes me smile to read these words from MVDP:
"There's also a preliminary plan to ride two or three mountain-bike World Cups to grab some points. It took a long time to reach the top of mountain biking, but now that the whole calendar disappeared, I feel like I lost a year. *It has become my favourite discipline and it's also the toughest of the three.*"
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ma...epared-for-cross-return-than-i-was-last-year/


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> It makes me smile to read these words from MVDP:
> "There's also a preliminary plan to ride two or three mountain-bike World Cups to grab some points. It took a long time to reach the top of mountain biking, but now that the whole calendar disappeared, I feel like I lost a year. *It has become my favourite discipline and it's also the toughest of the three.*"
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ma...epared-for-cross-return-than-i-was-last-year/


yep. I read that article and thought the same thing.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> It makes me smile to read these words from MVDP:
> "*It has become my favourite discipline and it's also the toughest of the three.*"


I admire the guy for what I believe it says about his character and motivation, which isn't just winning for the sake of winning, but more about overcoming challenges. For him CX has been too easy most of the time, and while he can't win every day on the road (no one can) it didn't take him long to demonstrate he can take on the best there too. It's clearly MTB which presented him the most resistance, taking years of trying before he was able to finally notch his first win in WCO world cups.

It takes a lot of balls for him to essentially forego a likely opportunity to become the most accomplished male racer in CX history (in terms of career palmares), to focus instead on what he perceives to be the biggest challenge.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

So Emily Batty has finally moved on from Trek, or vise versa. I hope she can get back to the top level again, where ever she ends up.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> David Valero (SPA) is leaving MMR Factory Racing.


...and joining Carlos Coloma in BH Templo Cafes


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Apparently, now it's official...PFP will move on from CANYON-SRAM onto a new team.









Pauline Ferran Prevot leaves Canyon and we have clues about her new team


In addition to the praise, in the press release we have found a phrase that can give us a clue about which team will defend in 2021




www.brujulabike.com


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

Americans Blevins and Batten move to Specialized-backed Trinity Racing (UK). I guess this would open up spots under the Spesh tent for Sarrou, Jenny, et al






Media Release - 2021 Roster — TRINITY Racing







www.trinityracing.co.uk


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

BMC saying goodbye and thanks to Jordan Sarrou on social media posts...


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

Circlip said:


> I admire the guy for what I believe it says about his character and motivation, which isn't just winning for the sake of winning, but more about overcoming challenges. For him CX has been too easy most of the time, and while he can't win every day on the road (no one can) it didn't take him long to demonstrate he can take on the best there too. It's clearly MTB which presented him the most resistance, taking years of trying before he was able to finally notch his first win in WCO world cups.
> 
> It takes a lot of balls for him to essentially forego a likely opportunity to become the most accomplished male racer in CX history (in terms of career palmares), to focus instead on what he perceives to be the biggest challenge.


It was amazing watching him in the XC races just power away from folks like Schurter. He has an incredible combination of power and handling skills. I imagine his incredible CX skills played a major role in his success on the XC courses.

It makes me think that if Sagan (and possibly a few others) would dedicate himself to XC that he too could be at the sharp end of the XC field also. Watching his first few laps in the Olympics a few years back was very exciting, if ultimately disappointing.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

CBRsteve said:


> It makes me think that if Sagan (and possibly a few others) would dedicate himself to XC that he too could be at the sharp end of the XC field also. Watching his first few laps in the Olympics a few years back was very exciting, if ultimately disappointing.


Sagan was a MTB racer way back when and went to the road, the skills are there.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

The sharp rock avoidance skill wasn't there at Rio.


kevbikemad said:


> Sagan was a MTB racer way back when and went to the road, the skills are there.


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## Stoney.Sanders (May 10, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> The sharp rock avoidance skill wasn't there at Rio.


He was probably also using S-Works tires, maybe the most flat prone tires raced in 2016.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Apparently, now it's official...PFP will move on from CANYON-SRAM onto a new team.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My guess is Batty is going to Canyon.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

kevbikemad said:


> My guess is Batty is going to Canyon.


Maybe...wasn't Adam Morka (Batty's husband and coach starting his own team of Canadian riders?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Simon Andreassen and Alan Hatherly heavily linked to Cannondale Factory Racing per spanish website esmtb.com









¿La confirmación? Simon Andreassen y Alan Hatherly serían los nuevos fichajes del Cannondale Factory Racing


Simon Andreassen y Alan Hatherly serían los nuevos fichajes del Cannondale Factory Racing para la temporada 2021




esmtb.com


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Maybe...wasn't Adam Morka (Batty's husband and coach starting his own team of Canadian riders?


Sounds like it, but she might be on a Canyon on Team Morka from Orka.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Gerhard Kerschbaumer confirms he is leaving his current team Torpado Ursus


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

As does Simon Andreassen from Specialized......

1st January will be interesting, when we find out were they are going. Though going by the rumours, most of them we 'know'.


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

A lot of movement at the end of what should have been an Olympic cycle, giving some brands the opportunity to reload for 2021 and the rescheduled Olympics.

Rumors:
Sarrou - BMC to Specialized
PFP - Canyon to BMC
GK - Torpado to Specialized
Simon - Specialized to Cannondale
Hatherly - Specialized to Cannondale
Blevins - Specialized to Trinity (confirmed)
Batten - Specialized to Trinity (confirmed)
Rissveds - 31/Spesh to Specialized
Annika - Specialized to retired (confirmed)
Batty - Trek to Canyon?? Cannondale sure could use a top female...


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

Chloe Woodruff just announced on IG that the Stan's Pivot Pro Team is shutting down and everyone is moving on to new teams.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Sounds like Van Der Poel plans on racing the Tour De France in 21.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Mathieu van der Poel: I owe it to my sponsors to participate in the Tour de France


Dutchman to combine Tour and Olympic goals in 2021




www.cyclingnews.com





It's an 'unusual' preparation for the Olympic MTB race; saying that, it's not ideal - I do wonder how it will pan out.


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Financial win, competitive loss?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

He's not aiming to win the TdF. He's going stage hunting.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

MvdP to TdF seems pretty cut and dry. Primary sponsors Alpecin-Fenix put in millions of dollars. The team results (largely driven by MvdP) earn them what could be a one-time only invite to the TdF, which is the biggest opportunity for commercial exposure and return on investment possible in the world of professional cycling. The team's star rider needs to be part of the show. It's clear from interviews that MdvP understands and accepts these business elements take priority over his personal goals. He's showing himself to be a good professional, and he'll be richly rewarded with his contracts over the duration of his career for doing so.


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

Fraction said:


> A lot of movement at the end of what should have been an Olympic cycle, giving some brands the opportunity to reload for 2021 and the rescheduled Olympics.
> 
> Rumors:
> Sarrou - BMC to Specialized (confirmed 1/1)
> ...


Sarrou confirmed with Specialized

__
http://instagr.am/p/CJgvXDeBPW8/


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Given he’s very unlikely to race the Tour, it would be cool if Ineos let Tom Pidcock race the Olympic XC race. 

I think that kid has the potential to be a MvdP-like rider. Just beat MvdP and WvA in a CX WC. Has won the Baby Giro AND P-R Juniors. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Given he's very unlikely to race the Tour, it would be cool if Ineos let Tom Pidcock race the Olympic XC race.
> 
> I think that kid has the potential to be a MvdP-like rider. Just beat MvdP and WvA in a CX WC. Has won the Baby Giro AND P-R Juniors.


That would indeed be cool if Pidcock could race XC in the Olympics and even beyond that for selected events. Unfortunately, if he shows promise as a competitive GC rider on the road (which seems a likely path given his palmares) it will probably shrink his window for competing in other disciplines. MvdP and WvA are clearly leaning toward being primarily classics and stage hunters, which seems better suited for aligning with a multi-discipline approach.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

There was an interview a while ago, and Pidcock wanted to win 'everything'; I don't think he'd have signed for Ineos if he couldn't achieve those ambitions. 
There may be a problem qualifying for the Olympic MTB this year; as I think GB is well down the list of points; and he'll also need to score points in World Cups. 

What I'd like to see going forward is more multi discipline cyclists; I understand specialisation, but being versatile is a great 'skill'.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> There was an interview a while ago, and Pidcock wanted to win 'everything'; I don't think he'd have signed for Ineos if he couldn't achieve those ambitions.


Well I hope he had a smart manager when he signed his contract because Pinarello don't even make a MTB. If they did, can you imagine how heavy it would be? They can't even make a light weight disc road frame.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Keegan Swenson on Santa Cruz


__
http://instagr.am/p/CJhKx0ol8mv/

Will be interesting to see if the SC factor xc team rumor is real or not.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Maxime Marotte and Luca Braidot join Santa Cruz FSA (Italian based team...same one that Andrea Tiberi was for the past few seasons.)


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I hardly recognise Nino Schurter without a rainbow jersey on! That kit is very purple!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Kerschbaumer had a picture with a bike in insta story, seemed like a Renegade tyres for me, so the specialized rumor probably also true


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Raikzz said:


> Kerschbaumer had a picture with a bike in insta story, seemed like a Renegade tyres for me, so the specialized rumor probably also true


It's already confirmed that he will join Specialized Factory Racing, but no press release yet. He is training in Stellenbosch though...along with the current World Champion...









Confirmación oficiosa, Gerhard Kerschbaumer con Specialized Factory Racing


Gerhard Kerschbaumer es el otro gran fichaje masculino del equipo Specialized Factory Racing. Es cuestión de tiempo que se haga su presentación oficial




esmtb.com


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sina Frey and Barbara Benko out of Ghost Factory Racing


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

Andreassen and Hatherly confirmed with Cannondale

__
http://instagr.am/p/CJyWsI5DbYp/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Fraction said:


> Andreassen and Hatherly confirmed with Cannondale
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CJyWsI5DbYp/











Simon Andreassen y Alan Hatherly confirmados en el Cannondale Factory Racing


Simon Andreassen y Alan Hatherly son los nuevos fichajes del Cannondale Factory Racing




esmtb.com


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Pauline is confirmed on Absolute Absalon.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CJyopZeM0--/


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Ksanman said:


> Pauline is confirmed on Absolute Absalon.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CJyopZeM0--/


The world's world-kept secret finally made official.


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## Fraction (May 20, 2020)

Kerschbaumer confirmed with Specialized, as are Sina Frei and Laura Stigger on the women's side. I guess Jenny will stick with 31/Specialized.









Sina Frei, Gerhard Kerschbaumer & Laura Stigger Join Jordan Sarrou on Specialized Factory Racing - Pinkbike


Specialized adds young talent as well as regular podium contenders.




www.pinkbike.com


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I did not see this coming. But After PFP leaving the brand, it makes sense that Canyon wants to keep more women on their bikes...









Emily Batty Signs With Canyon - Pinkbike


The Canadian XCO racer hopes to find Olympic success with her new team.




www.pinkbike.com


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> I did not see this coming. But After PFP leaving the brand, it makes sense that Canyon wants to keep more women on their bikes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seemed likely to me. Good for her, hope she can return to form.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> I did not see this coming. But After PFP leaving the brand, it makes sense that Canyon wants to keep more women on their bikes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How's she going to run blacked out Ikons with those orange sidewalls?


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

pinkpowa said:


> How's she going to run blacked out Ikons with those orange sidewalls?


Maybe she won't need to. Schwalbe are not all that bad  And they have "normal" black wall tires too, which most of people ride anyway. I have feeling this skinwall tires are more for photo ops only, as I admit they don't look that bad on certain bikes. But what really bugs me, is that I just got this frame as guarantee replacement for old Canyon Lux, but mine has some white stripes on, and this stealth one on her photos looks so much nicer


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Her Instagram post says the team bike won’t be nuked out like that.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Congrats LMN!


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Congrats LMN!


Woo hoo! Big congratulations to Catharine and LMN.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Circlip said:


> Woo hoo! Big congratulations to Catharine and LMN.


Thanks Duke! Will be picking your brain for recent new dad experience!


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> Thanks Duke! Will be picking your brain for recent new dad experience!


Definitely go with Duke. All my kids are adults so I only have outdated dad experience.  Anything I did wrong as a parent is already baked in by now.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

congrats to LMN and family








Kamloops Olympian gives birth to baby girl


KAMLOOPS ---- Kamloops Olympic Mountain biker Catharine Pendrel and her husand Keith Wilson are now first time...




cfjctoday.com


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Any word on CX world champ Ceylin Alvarado's MTB ambitions for this year? I think she may be graduating out of U23's(not sure) She's awsome ot watch on a CX course and can only imagine that style caries over to a MTB XC.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Congrats to the new parents!!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Well I hope he had a smart manager when he signed his contract because Pinarello don't even make a MTB. If they did, can you imagine how heavy it would be? They can't even make a light weight disc road frame.


They make a mtb and it is truly awful


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Is it confirmed that Pidcock will continue with off road pursuits? I really hope so, it has been demonstrated that the best of the best can multitask and Pidcock is so good at CX (and apparently MTB) that the world would be a sadder place if he quit doing them. But every Pidcock/Ineos article I read I search longingly for some kind of statement that he'll keep playing in the dirt but instead he talks about "next stage of my career...do the classics..." etc.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Pidcocks cyclo Cross and mtb careers are overr6. He will focus purely on becoming Britain's next GC Contender


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Brad said:


> Pidcocks cyclo Cross and mtb careers are overr6. He will focus purely on becoming Britain's next GC Contender


This breaks my heart


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> Pidcocks cyclo Cross and mtb careers are overr6. He will focus purely on becoming Britain's next GC Contender


Are you saying this as your opinion (which is a completely reasonable and possible opinion) or because you've read a comment by either of Pidcock or Ineos stating this? If it's from Pidcock or Ineos could you please post up a link to the source? I'd be curious to read.

From what I've read Pidcock's latest statements on the matter indicate he is still intending to do some CX and MTB, but I actually agree with your position that will probably give way to a full-time road career. I just think that may happen over a period of time, rather than immediately.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Yes I'm saying this as my opinion, but that is based off something that I read. INEOS don't have teams in cyclo Cross. I suspect they won't care what he does in his spare time as long as he turns up at training camps and other team events. How are they going to allow him to mtb when the seasons run concurrently? And the team isn't built around him like Alpecin Fenix is for Mattheui. He delayed his on boarding to INEOS till after the cyclo Cross World champs as he contracted to ride for Specialized till then. Those are pretty telling signs about where his focus is expected to be. I'm quite happy to be wrong but there has been no talk from either his or InEOS side that they are making special dispensation for cyclo Cross and mtb.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

Maja Wloszczowska ending her career after this Olympic year.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Everything I've read implies that he'll be continuing his off road pursuits; he's doing a short spring road programme, then a summer of MTB, hoping to qualify for the Olympics. 
He has stated a number of times he wants to win World Championships in 3 disciplines.....CX, MTB & Road....
There seems to be a growing acceptance that mixing disciplines is not a barrier to success - and can help riders stay motivated with differing targets across the disciplines.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

You post sounds more like wishful thinking than anything that has been published on in official media. He may well work out a way to continue to Olympic XCO qualification but on what bike? The teamssponsor iis Pinarello and their mtbs are not worth mentioning in the same sentence as mtb. There is a misalignment betweenssponsor objectives and what you claim are his personal ambitions. Ineos has never let a rider deviate far from their objectives so what makes Pidcock so special other then you're both Brits?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

He told Lantern Rouge...
"I'll be racing. I'm Mediterranean Epic the mountain bike race first, then [Volta ao] Algarve and Opening Weekend [Kuurne-Brusselles-Kuurne and Omloop Het Nieuwsblad]. I'm not having much of a break, I'm going straight into the road."
"Pidcock said he has some idea of his programme for the rest of the season, which will include Strade Bianche, a mountain bike block in June, then the Tokyo Olympics. 
He also revealed that he wants to ride the Vuelta a España, but will not be racing the Tour de France or Paris-Roubaix."


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Thanks that's a bit more concrete as LR is credible.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

New wheels for Scott-sram


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

interesting wheelset from Syncros. Of course what everyone wants to know is weight and price.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

chase2wheels said:


> interesting wheelset from Syncros. Of course what everyone wants to know is weight and price.


Claimed 1290g actual1307g according to this article. Scroll toward the bottom of the build info for the section about the wheels, although the rest of the article is quite interesting too.









Dangerholm's Back With Another Wild Build - The Hyper Spark Project - Pinkbike


Bikes don't get much cleaner looking than Dangerholm's latest creation.




www.pinkbike.com


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

Circlip said:


> Claimed 1290g actual1307g according to this article. Scroll toward the bottom of the build info for the section about the wheels, although the rest of the article is quite interesting too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I love the engineering involved.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

chase2wheels said:


> interesting wheelset from Syncros. Of course what everyone wants to know is weight and price.


They've been out for two or more years now. Plenty of reviews out there. Just a new, wider version.

The weight is OK for the price. The price is stratospheric. Almost $4000.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

chase2wheels said:


> Thanks for the link. I love the engineering involved.


Agreed. This guy's builds are way, way beyond a mere selection of build components, even in cases where the selection is very thoughtful and well-suited to the intended purpose. He's done a bunch of interesting build projects like this over the last few years. As I understand it, at first he was buying the frames and parts himself as an out-of-pocket expense, but now some of the companies give him the bits and pieces to play with because he has a proven track record of posting up very interesting and detailed project reports.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Here is another fascinating build by Dangerholm

__
http://instagr.am/p/CKEWqkphY36/









Readers’ Rides: DangerPubes


Wow. We've featured the work of the cycling industry's crystal ball-gazing, doodle extraordinaire before but oddly enough, none of his other cycle-inventions felt as practical as this project does... Read on below for the full scoop on this creation from the mind of Bicycle Pubes with words by...




theradavist.com












Behold: The ultimate bike build - Canadian Cycling Magazine


Society may not be ready for this futuristic technology




cyclingmagazine.ca


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

National XC Championships here tomorrow.
Anton Cooper looking to defend the title.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> National XC Championships here tomorrow.
> Anton Cooper looking to defend the title.


Is there tv coverage?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

2_whl_boost said:


> Is there tv coverage?


Only scam stuff...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton is national champ again for the 5th time in a row and 7th in total.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...did Opening Weekend already left us with a few things to talk about? And I mean on the XCO MTB side...

Victor Koretzky won in Banyoles on a stellar field, Jordan Sarrou beat his new teammate, Anton Cooper repeated his NZ title (Sam Gaze was in Spain) and Henrique Avancini can't travel out of Brazil to race...

On the Ladies, Richards-Neff duo had a blast in Spain also...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Evie is racing off of her cyclocross form. I don't see why more XC MTB racers don't race CX. It sure doesn't hurt MvdP and Tom Pidcock. Both were showing their strength on the road this past weekend in Belgium.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here in Puerto Rico we are hosting the American Continental Championships...and just got word that Brazil is currently not allowed to travel here, meaning Henrique Avancini, Luis Cocuzzi and others will not participate in those races.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> Evie is racing off of her cyclocross form. I don't see why more XC MTB racers don't race CX. It sure doesn't hurt MvdP and Tom Pidcock. Both were showing their strength on the road this past weekend in Belgium.


Things is, she actually didn't do very much CX - barely a handful of races, but obviously did enough, plus the training. But not only her, Elisabeth Brandau who was 3rd, finished Top 10 in the CX Worlds, on a course you wouldn't expect to favour MTB riders...apart from the two artificial climbs.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

What has happened to Sam Gaze?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> What has happened to Sam Gaze?


He's been keeping quiet. Still on the Alpecin-Fenix Development Team roster.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CL2DkGDLNpk/


----------



## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Brad said:


> What has happened to Sam Gaze?


He said he wasn't ready for the intensity on his Instagram.

Another female racer posted her profile and described the course as being very On/off and zone 6 (Strava). Might be tough for someone who has been spending more time in a domestique roll on a road team and just bad timing in his perioditization.

Some days you just have heavy legs ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> He's been keeping quiet. Still on the Alpecin-Fenix Development Team roster.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CL2DkGDLNpk/


Hs on the continental team isn't he? Strange one that Gaze fella


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

After winning that sprint finish against Nino, Gaze has faded so bad, strange


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> After winning that sprint finish against Nino, Gaze has faded so bad, strange


Didn't he knock his head pretty badly right about the time he seemed poised to start winning? Cape Epic 2018 maybe?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

PlanB said:


> Didn't he knock his head pretty badly right about the time he seemed poised to start winning? Cape Epic 2018 maybe?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shattered his helmet.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

PlanB said:


> Didn't he knock his head pretty badly right about the time he seemed poised to start winning? Cape Epic 2018 maybe?


He hasn't been the same racer since that crash. I guess he's had too many concussions. They can really mess you up.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

MVDP is certainly on form.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

GSPChilliwack said:


> MVDP is certainly on form.


 He threw two wattage bombs in Strade Bianche that Nino Schurter knows so well. He is back to his best this year. Last year, 2020, was a little off for him on the road. I believe he didn't train much during the Covid lockdown.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

GSPChilliwack said:


> MVDP is certainly on form.


That final climb was sublime to watch.
Dropping a conventional watt bomb and then a few seconds later when Alaphilippe thought he had it covered, going thermonuclear...


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> He threw two wattage bombs in Strade Bianche that Nino Schurter knows so well. He is back to his best this year. Last year, 2020, was a little off for him on the road. I believe he didn't train much during the Covid lockdown.


Well, he did win the 2020 Tour of Flanders.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

PlanB said:


> Well, he did win the 2020 Tour of Flanders.


Do you believe that he could win Flanders in less than 100% condition? I do, with the right sequence of in-race events.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Difference to 2020 is that all spring races were postponed to late summer, and he was little bit off when the racing resumed again, but at the end of the summer he got on form again, crushing National champs, Flanders etc.

It's going to be interesting if he can carry his CX and these spring classics form till the Olympics. And he also has to ride a TDF before Olympics.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Jehad


Raikzz said:


> After winning that sprint finish against Nino, Gaze has faded so bad, strange


He had a bad crash at the Cape Epic in 2019 where he concussed himself and withdrew two days later. Since then he's faded into oblivion


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Here are some figures and insight into MvdP's power profile at the link below.

Analysis: Mathieu van der Poel's 1,300-watt Strade Bianche-winning power data


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Here are some figures and insight into MvdP's power profile at the link below.
> 
> Analysis: Mathieu van der Poel's 1,300-watt Strade Bianche-winning power data


Apparently he weighs 75kg and averaged 1,004 watts for 20 seconds up the final climb.

He didn't even manage to get the Strava KOM! ?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

WR304 said:


> He didn't even manage to get the Strava KOM! ?


That is funny, but it also provides a perfect illustration of the difference between strava and an actual race. Hypothetically a drier could hide in the main group all day then go full gas on the final climb to collect the strava KOM, but only end up in 35th place or some other nondescript result. MvdP applied the right power at the right times to support his chosen in-race tactics not only in the finale but also during everything leading up to that point, in order to achieve his goal of being the first rider across the line.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Wout Van Aert did 1215 watts for 13s. Max of 1445 watts and 72.6 kph in the Terraino-Adriatico sprint.
CX racers rule


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Circlip said:


> MvdP applied the right power at the right times to support his chosen in-race tactics not only in the finale but also during everything leading up to that point, in order to achieve his goal of being the first rider across the line.


He got caught out in the wrong bunch earlier in the race though?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> Wout Van Aert did 1215 watts for 13s. Max of 1445 watts and 72.6 kph in the Terraino-Adriatico sprint.
> CX racers rule


I wonder how WVA would in a XCO race given the proper training...


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> I wonder how WVA would in a XCO race given the proper training...


I think he'd be a threat at any XCO that doesn't have world cup level elite riders - without any specific training. It's not like we're talking about a pure roadie here. The guy already has uber CX skills that would be very transferrable, and proven uber fitness for events anywhere from 1 hour to several hours.

Assuming he doesn't currently ride proper MTB trails (which may not even be a correct assumption) I'd guess it wouldn't take too much extra skills development for him to look relatively comfortable even at a world cup XCO. Sven Nys used to dabble with MTB a bit and was usually knocking on top 10 based only on fitness and CX skills, with no specific MTB prep if I remember correctly. Think of what Kulhavy was like in top form, and that's probably a window into what WVA could aim for with actual MTB prep. For sure he'd be a monster in a format like Cape Epic, just like Kulhavy was.

Fun to speculate, but I don't actually expect to ever see WVA on the MTB side.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

You all seem interested in XCO racing. So am I and because it is a pain in the ass to search the UCI website for informations I put together a website much like procyclingstats, just for MTB XCO racing. It is indeed in its infancy, but I am adding more and more results every day. For 2021 e.g. the site is up2date. Feel free to check it out @ www.xcodata.com
Feedback is always welcome.

Right now there was a series of C1/2 races in Turkey going on and some races in Italy/Spain with nearly World Cup strength fields. Can't remember when early spring races (except maybe Cape Epic) was so exciting to follow.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MTBCrossCountry.com was good but hasn't been updated since 2018.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

NordieBoy said:


> MTBCrossCountry.com was good but hasn't been updated since 2018.


Yeah, that's why I picked up the project in the first place... mtbcrosscountry.com was great!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

For the next 2 weeks, Puerto Rico will host the best XCO racers from the American continent. First is a UCI C1 XCO race and a week later the American Continental Champs in the same venue but a modified course. It will be a bubble type venue, once you get in, nobody goes out. Mechanics, bike parts and almost everything will be available for the racers. COVID-19 testing plus all health and safety protocols will be in place. Course is ultra fast, dry with plenty of climbing with very fast descents. US, Canada, Mexico, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile and Argentina will display mayor talent with Brazil the only ones not able to attend due to travel restrictions. I'll try and post a video of the venue and the track whenever possible.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158329225998920


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158329225998920


Nice scenery, but it looks like a course for gravel bikes. Are there any technical features?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Nice scenery, but it looks like a course for gravel bikes. Are there any technical features?


Don't know about technical features, but those riders were getting enough air over those step-downs and there's enough roughness that a gravel bike wouldn't stand a chance.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The course is an up and down roller coaster with couple of rock gardens and tons of jumps. There is a long descent with jumps/rollers/berms that either you clear them or you'll have to make an appointment with your dentist. Hardtail bikes have a rough time on that course...it punishes your body on climbs and descents.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Delegations from Mexico, Colombia and Chile have arrived and entered the bubble for the events. That means Jose Gerardo Ulloa (winner of the Round 1 Short Tack in NMNM World Cup), Hector Leonardo Paez (current XCM World Champion) and Martin Vidaurre ( 4th place at the 2020 World Champs) are here.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Looks like Pidcock MTB times are not over! Ineos mtb "team" - 



 , looks like BMC frames, SR Suntor forks and Shimano drivetrain and looks like no wheel sponsor, because on video he tested Dt swiss, DUKEs and Sycnros wheels


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Looks like Pidcock MTB times are not over! Ineos mtb "team" -
> 
> 
> 
> , looks like BMC frames, SR Suntor forks and Shimano drivetrain and looks like no wheel sponsor, because on video he tested Dt swiss, DUKEs and Sycnros wheels


This post makes me happy. The whole time I was wondering what frame it was. It's interesting that they make sure to throw glamour shots of the Pinarello drop bar bike, is that a cross or gravel bike? Then back to Tom shredding on the MTB that never quite gives you clear shot of the whole frame.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

ewarnerusa said:


> This post makes me happy. The whole time I was wondering what frame it was. It's interesting that they make sure to throw glamour shots of the Pinarello drop bar bike, is that a cross or gravel bike? Then back to Tom shredding on the MTB that never quite gives you clear shot of the whole frame.


I was coming here to post this video link too....The "Pinarello" drop bar bike has CX tires mounted


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

That's a Pinarello Crossista CX bike....

Would like to know why they chose the BMC Four Stroke; one assumed Tom / Ineos would use a 'blacked out' Epic.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Even more so would like to know why SR Suntour suspension


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> That's a Pinarello Crossista CX bike....
> 
> Would like to know why they chose the BMC Four Stroke; one assumed Tom / Ineos would use a 'blacked out' Epic.


Good point, he is familiar with the Epic and won a lot of stuff on one already.

Maybe the vid is pointing out that Ineos/Pinarello has his CX interests covered as well. Keep on shredding the dirt Tom!


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

carlostruco said:


> Delegations from Mexico, Colombia and Chile have arrived and entered the bubble for the events. That means Jose Gerardo Ulloa (winner of the Round 1 Short Tack in NMNM World Cup), Hector Leonardo Paez (current XCM World Champion) and Martin Vidaurre ( 4th place at the 2020 World Champs) are here.


So the race yesterday (Tropical MTB Challenge) is on the same course as the upcoming Continental Champs?
Jose Gerardo Ulloa won the race in front of Martin Vidaurre and Adair Prieto [Results]
In the womens race it was Daniela Chavez Peon in front of Savilia Blunk and Sofia Gomez [Results]
That would naturally make them favourites for the Continental Champs.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

xcodata said:


> So the race yesterday (Tropical MTB Challenge) is on the same course as the upcoming Continental Champs?
> Jose Gerardo Ulloa won the race in front of Martin Vidaurre and Adair Prieto [Results]
> In the womens race it was Daniela Chavez Peon in front of Savilia Blunk and Sofia Gomez [Results]
> That would naturally make them favourites for the Continental Champs.


Correction: Hector Leonardo Paez did not make the trip. Instead Jonathan Botero, who placed 5ht in Rio Olympics XCO, made the podium.

Keep in mind that Martin Vidaurre is still U-23 and that Canada and USA delegations are not complete here in PR. Christopher Blevins has raced against Ulloa in the past and I see him as the only one with a chance to beat Ulloa. Daniela has a very strong chance to win. She only lost here last year against Chloe Woodruff.

I will post link for the race pictures later.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

WR304 said:


> Apparently he weighs 75kg and averaged 1,004 watts for 20 seconds up the final climb.
> 
> He didn't even manage to get the Strava KOM! ?
> 
> View attachment 1920485


Probably because I spend a lot of time looking at power files from elite guys I always find the road race files underwhelming.

Looking at Milan San Marino MVPD average just under 500 watts for the 5 and 1/2 minute effort up the final climb. To most of us that is unbelievable but any 1/2 decent elite guy his size can do that effort in isolation. What makes the effort special is the fact it happens after nearly 300km.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> Probably because I spend a lot of time looking at power files from elite guys I always find the road race files underwhelming.
> 
> Looking at Milan San Marino MVPD average just under 500 watts for the 5 and 1/2 minute effort up the final climb. To most of us that is unbelievable but any 1/2 decent elite guy his size can do that effort in isolation. What makes the effort special is the fact it happens after nearly 300km.


Yeah, but 300km of hiding in the pack.



I loved his "I was cold" comment at Tirreno.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

LMN said:


> Probably because I spend a lot of time looking at power files from elite guys I always find the road race files underwhelming.
> 
> Looking at Milan San Marino MVPD average just under 500 watts for the 5 and 1/2 minute effort up the final climb. To most of us that is unbelievable but any 1/2 decent elite guy his size can do that effort in isolation. What makes the effort special is the fact it happens after nearly 300km.


Milan San Remo is a very tactical race. On the Poggio climb it looks like Mathieu van Der Poel was just covering the other riders for the majority of the climb, rather than going on the attack himself. He did 975 watts for 30 seconds near the top closing down Julien Alaphilippe's attack which was a max effort but the rest of the climb lower down was hard but not full commitment. You can see this because his heart rate was dropping mid climb!









Milano - San Remo - Mathieu V.'s 306.8 km bike ride


Mathieu V. rode 306.8 km on Mar 20, 2021.




www.strava.com





If you're looking at Mathieu van Der Poel's race files on Strava the one to look at is the zone distribution from Strade Bianchi (which is lots of short punchy climbs). That ability to do repeated high intensity effforts at high wattages is why he's such a good cyclo cross and mountain bike racer.









Strade Bianche 🏆 - Mathieu V.'s 186.4 km bike ride


Mathieu V. rode 186.4 km on Mar 6, 2021.




www.strava.com


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here is link to this past Sunday's race (1st Lap only)


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## Deartist7 (Sep 28, 2014)

Anyone know if the Continental Champs are going to be streamed somewhere?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Deartist7 said:


> Anyone know if the Continental Champs are going to be streamed somewhere?


Due to COVID-19 safety protocols in place (bubble format), we have limited resources to do so. Now, if possible, some Facebook users already inside the bubble can stream part of the races taking place. If I get access to them, I will post them here.


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## Deartist7 (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks! that would be great.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Here is link to this past Sunday's race (1st Lap only)


That's cool to see a complete and uninterrupted lap from an aerial viewpoint. I am getting flashbacks of the look and feel from the Greece 2004 Olympic MTB event while watching it.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pictures of all Junior and Elite races of the Tropical MTB Challenge UCI C1

https://fotogandul.pixieset.com/tropicalmtbchallengeday2/


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Deartist7 said:


> Thanks! that would be great.


There is a high pobability a Facebook user will stream live some parts of the races...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Tons of racing going on with the first World Cup in a few weeks time!!!


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Video: Red Bull's Official Season Preview for the 2021 World Cup Cross Country - Pinkbike


The XC race season is due to kick off on May 7.




www.pinkbike.com





The recent races have certainly been exciting; the Italian races have been like mini World Cup, with very few of the top racers missing. It should be a great season.


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Wish they had a same live broadcast of these races as they have or WCs, would be awesome


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Raikzz said:


> Wish they had a same live broadcast of these races as they have or WCs, would be awesome


One has to say, I think us MTB fans are starved of decent live race coverage, outside of the World Cups.....


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I was searching youtube for the Superprestigio MTB on the weekend, Beck McConnell got her first win in Europe for the year


----------



## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

How cool would it be if Garmin sponsored and they put Virb cameras on every bike.

I’d love to see that footage the way we do in almost every other racing sport. I’m not talking about live cam, but pulled in for editing in post. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh boy, WC is here soon- from pre season races look like racing is going to be tighter than ever, and if you add Pidcock and VDP to the mix, then at least on paper looks like we are going to have a amazing racing!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

World Cup racing right now is complex! 

Riders and Staff will be Covid tested every day at Albstadt. In Nova Mesto is every 72hrs and you have to wear an electronic bracelet that confirms you have been tested.

Spitting, snot rockets, blowing your nose is also now against the rules.

I just sold a bike for $4000 and that should almost cover all the covid test we will have to get. Crazy times!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Little bit weird that organizer doesnt cover covid tests taken on site.

And if you cant blow your nose, we are gonna see riders riding with 1meter long ropes hanging from nose during race ?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Little bit weird that organizer doesnt cover covid tests taken on site.
> 
> And if you cant blow your nose, we are gonna see riders riding with 1meter long ropes hanging from nose during race ?


Wipe, wipe, wipe... If, as LMN describes, the guidelines are to prevent a rider's bodily fluids from leaving their person, they are going to finish races with all their oozing and leaking stuff wiped all over themselves. Nice! New gloves definitely for each race. 😄


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Nice! New gloves definitely for each race. 😄


Or wash them?


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Or wash them?


Hey, you are totally trashing my hyperbole.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Common guys. Nobody ever washes gloves.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Hey, you are totally trashing my hyperbole.


Only a little bit, keep on hyperbing


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Some newbie destroyed the men's field in the Swiss Cup race today and won by over 3 minutes on a hardtail.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Stonerider said:


> Some newbie destroyed the men's field in the Swiss Cup race today and won by over 3 minutes on a hardtail.


I see what you did here, but not sure if U23 XCO world champ is "newbie" 
Does anybody know which starting position Pidcock has for Albstadt ?

EDIT: He's at 32nd place in UCI ranking, so luckily he gets a spot in a short track in last row.


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> EDIT: He's at 32nd place in UCI ranking, so luckily he gets a spot in a short track in last row.


It will be fascinating to see how his competencies play out in short track. On paper, his stats don't peg him as a rider that should excel in ST, but it's obvious that his history in CX and his overall record of success suggest he can do some damage. Or, in the case of Albstadt at least move up significantly from the last row of the ST grid.


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Another story of note from the Swiss Cup race is the emergent results of the Canadian duo of Fincham and Woods. It wasn't a stacked field by any means, by this pair managed to put themselves ahead of some pretty decent riders. That's a good very result for 23 year-old Fincham, and a great result for the 20 year-old Woods.

Also, whoever was calling out Mitterwallner's results not long ago on the women's side was bang on. That's a pretty big gap over a field that included Courtney, PFP, and Neff.



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-swiss-bike-cup-2021-round-one-leukerbad.html


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Some newbie destroyed the men's field in the Swiss Cup race today and won by over 3 minutes on a hardtail.


A bit a stretch to call the current U23 world champion a newbie.

But yeah he was good. Needs a bit of work on technical skills though, there was a rock drop that he was riding horrible every lap (like I had advert by eyes horrible). The guys he was lapping were riding it better than him.

The most impressive ride IMHO though was Carter Woods. His last lap of race was with in 10s of any lap that Piddock did.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Yes! Carter woods! Kid lives in my neighbourhood. He’s a ripper. It would be so great to see him become Canada’s big rider. Such a solid crew on the Norco squad. Norco has quietly been an XC supporter since forever and it’s really nice to see their bikes shine on the world stage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

PlanB said:


> Yes! Carter woods! Kid lives in my neighbourhood. He's a ripper. It would be so great to see him become Canada's big rider. Such a solid crew on the Norco squad. Norco has quietly been an XC supporter since forever and it's really nice to see their bikes shine on the world stage.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Courtney BC is one of those quiet places that produces a lot of really good mountain bikers. In 2019 they took 1/2 of the podium places at XC nationals in junior and another kid on the DH stage won a junior world cup.

Also the home town of two former top level world cup riders with multiple podiums; Geoff Kabush and Kiara Bisaro.

All from a town of 20,000 people, that has absolutely terrible weather 6 months of the year.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

LMN said:


> World Cup racing right now is complex!
> 
> Riders and Staff will be Covid tested every day at Albstadt. In Nova Mesto is every 72hrs and you have to wear an electronic bracelet that confirms you have been tested.
> 
> ...


 You have to pay out of pocket for the tests? Trade teams, race organizers, uci or cycling Canada doesn't pay or pitch in?


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

PlanB said:


> Yes! Carter woods! Kid lives in my neighbourhood. He's a ripper. It would be so great to see him become Canada's big rider. Such a solid crew on the Norco squad. Norco has quietly been an XC supporter since forever and it's really nice to see their bikes shine on the world stage.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I jumped on a revolver 120 and liked how it felt but was too small. No bigger size available right now.


LMN said:


> Courtney BC is one of those quiet places that produces a lot of really good mountain bikers. In 2019 they took 1/2 of the podium places at XC nationals in junior and another kid on the DH stage won a junior world cup.
> 
> Also the home town of two former top level world cup riders with multiple podiums; Geoff Kabush and Kiara Bisaro.
> 
> All from a town of 20,000 people, that has absolutely terrible weather 6 months of the year.


Kiara Bisaro! That's a throwback. She retired right after Athens?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

arca_tern said:


> You have to pay out of pocket for the tests? Trade teams, race organizers, uci or cycling Canada doesn't pay or pitch in?


The rider is responsible for the fee. Some might get some support from their teams or federation but right now that is the cost of doing business.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

arca_tern said:


> I jumped on a revolver 120 and liked how it felt but was too small. No bigger size available right now.
> Kiara Bisaro! That's a throwback. She retired right after Athens?


She took a run at Beijing, her and Catharine battled for the 2nd spot. Kiara moved to France and still shows up at the occasional race and usually does quite well.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Also, whoever was calling out Mitterwallner's results not long ago on the women's side was bang on. That's a pretty big gap over a field that included Courtney, PFP, and Neff.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-swiss-bike-cup-2021-round-one-leukerbad.html


Agreed. Huge performance - haven't seen a climbing course like that for a while, and she was out of sight by the middle of lap 2.


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

Raikzz said:


> I see what you did here, but not sure if U23 XCO world champ is "newbie"
> Does anybody know which starting position Pidcock has for Albstadt ?
> 
> EDIT: He's at 32nd place in UCI ranking, so luckily he gets a spot in a short track in last row.


He's expecting to start around 90th place.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...are we ready to call our podiums for the weekend? IMO, its too unpredictable and I can only think of M. Fluckiger due to his current results and past podiums at Albstadt. Besides him, not so sure.

For the Women, I can not possibly think of 3 (or 5) since the field is more balanced. My guess is this will be the best race of the weekend!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Podium:
Men: M. Fluckiger, Nino, and even with his absolute horrible starting position I think Pidcock will be there. 
I didn't check, anybody know if MVDP is racing?

Women: Loana, Anne Terpstra, and Mitterwallner


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Is there a start list anywhere for the World Cup? 

I'm really looking forwards to it. It should be good.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Podium:
> Men: M. Fluckiger, Nino, and even with his absolute horrible starting position I think Pidcock will be there.
> I didn't check, anybody know if MVDP is racing?
> 
> Women: Loana, Anne Terpstra, and Mitterwallner


Apparently he is, though he and his team have been very quiet about it. Last week Alpecin-Fenix posted on social media their May scheduled races and both WC's were listed, though no individuals were named.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I would have picked M. Fluckiger for the podium but he did the a cold, rainy, miserable road stage race last week. I think he will pay for that effort. 


carlostruco said:


> So...are we ready to call our podiums for the weekend? IMO, its too unpredictable and I can only think of M. Fluckiger due to his current results and past podiums at Albstadt. Besides him, not so sure.
> 
> For the Women, I can not possibly think of 3 (or 5) since the field is more balanced. My guess is this will be the best race of the weekend!!!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino and VDP will share 1-2nd place, but the last podium spot is tricky, if Pidcock gets a decent first laps then i'll pick him, otherwise Flückiger


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> I would have picked M. Fluckiger for the podium but he did the a cold, rainy, miserable road stage race last week. I think he will pay for that effort.


Apparently forecast for the race is about the same...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

LMN said:


> Podium:
> Men: M. Fluckiger, Nino, and even with his absolute horrible starting position I think Pidcock will be there.
> I didn't check, anybody know if MVDP is racing?
> 
> Women: Loana, Anne Terpstra, and Mitterwallner


I forgot Mitterwallner can't race elite! She is only a first year U23, so will be in the junior. I replace her with country women Stigger.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

For the men my guess is M. Fluckiger, V. Koretzky and M. Marotte, for the women L. Lecomte, A.Terpstra and J.Rissveds.
I think the different riders have a very different approach to the season depending on if they are already qualified for the olympics or not, some of them like PFP seem to be quite far from top form at the moment.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Alpecin Fenix just confirmed their lineup : Gaze, VDP , Marcel Meisen, Ceylin Alverado, Ronja Eibl


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The full men's Elite race from the Swiss Cup is on Youtube! As is the full women's race from the Swiss Cup.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

WR304 said:


> The full men's Elite race from the Swiss Cup is on Youtube! As is the full women's race from the Swiss Cup.


saw these on my youtube feed. haven't watched yet tho.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/entry-list-albstadt-world-cup-xc-2021.html


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Can someone explain why is Pidcock 75th at the startlist? He's ranked in 24th place on uci ranking

edit: okay, he doesn't have elite points


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Can someone explain why is Pidcock 75th at the startlist? He's ranked in 24th place on uci ranking
> 
> edit: okay, he doesn't have elite points


Calls up are complex this year.

Basically at world cups your call up is based on ranking as of March 2020 plus last years world cups and world championships. This will hold until the Olympics.

The idea of this is a lot of country had all their UCI races cancelled for the last year and a bit (Canada for example). Where as some countries ran just about as normal. With travel difficulties riders from some countries were really penalized.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

IMO, I thinks thats fair.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

Makes it all the more interesting for sunday with Pidcock starting from the back 

Streams, Standings etc: UCI MTB World Cup 2021 // XCODATA.com


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

albstadt short track on RBTV live right now...


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Stoked to see Catharine Pendrel back in action! What an amazing athlete !

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

MVDP power probably didn't suprise anyone today, but Ninos performance was impressive for me, he's my nr1 pick for sunday race.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Linda Indergan with a manual dropper?
MvdP riding and sprinting with his hands on the inside of the grips.
Also wearing fingerless gloves. Must have been REALLY cold!


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Linda Indergan with a manual dropper?
> MvdP riding and sprinting with his hands on the inside of the grips.
> Also wearing fingerless gloves. Must have been REALLY cold!


nah Dropper playing up and not returning as it should.

Good to see a couple of new riders mixing it up in the women's, hope Beck brings it home in the XCO


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Does anybody know how to view the Albstadt U23 races on Saturday? Ideally as a full-race replay without spoilers. I have a VPN if that helps.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

paramount3 said:


> Does anybody know how to view the Albstadt U23 races on Saturday? Ideally as a full-race replay without spoilers. I have a VPN if that helps.


They have never broadcasted anything other than Elite races


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> MVDP power probably didn't suprise anyone today, but Ninos performance was impressive for me, he's my nr1 pick for sunday race.


Yeah. Nino looked so good. I don't know if anybody else noticed how hard MVdp was puffing relative to Nino after his early attacks.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Renzo7 said:


> Stoked to see Catharine Pendrel back in action! What an amazing athlete !
> 
> Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


Race night prep is a bit different nowadays. Dealing with a jet legged baby screaming at 1am, 2am, 3am and 4am adds a new challenge.

I am amazed Pauline rode as well as she did, she is just down the hall. Must have good ear plugs!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Strategic lodging position with a newborn as a competitive weapon...pure genius!


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Woods Gets the Win in Albstadt - Norco Now


Everything came together for Norco Factory Team’s Carter Woods during Saturday’s U23 XCO race in Albstadt, Germany.




www.norco.com





Carter Wood wins U23


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Celine del Carmen Alvarado is racing in Albstadt tomorrow, starting position 99th. I'll be very curious to see how she does. The start position is obviously terrible. Maybe we can do some interpolation by looking at the U23 women's results recorded here:








Carter Woods wins U23 World Cup in Albstadt! - Canadian Cycling Magazine


Cumberland racer leads a big day for Canada in Germany




cyclingmagazine.ca




Mona Mitterwallner destroyed the field as expected, and based on her form in pre-world cup races, she would be a contender for the elite women's race if she were racing there. Third place was Blanca Kata Vas + 3:49, seventh place was Puck Pieterse +5:19. In the cyclocross season Celine regularly and handily beat both of these riders. I have to think that if Celine had a good start position in Albstadt she would be top ten at least, maybe better. We'll see soon enough.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Carter Woods wins U23 World Cup in Albstadt! - Canadian Cycling Magazine
> 
> 
> Cumberland racer leads a big day for Canada in Germany
> ...


Just under that is an article Highlights: Watch Mathieu van der Poel's explosive return to XCC racing in Albstadt - Canadian Cycling Magazine that states without any qualifiers that Canada's last World Cup XCO win before Woods' victory here was in Geoff Kabush in 2009. As a Canadian writer it's unfortunate he doesn't consider Catharine Pendrel's many wins to rate in this equation.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Well that was a pretty good race. I really love watching the womens XC.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think she'll be tough to beat on courses which have plenty of climbs; she's lightweight, and obviously good power to weight, and can outclimb everybody.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Yes, really fun race, great course, excellent coverage. 

In addition to her blistering climbing, the poise of Lecomte on the downhills was something else - her speed through corners is incredible.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah it looked like she wsa making a gap on the clombs on the first few laps, then extending it by a chunk in the DH's. She was flying!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Yowsers that was a finish!


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## RSM (Dec 4, 2015)

One of the best men´s races in years, Pidcock just WOW.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Feideaux said:


> Yes, really fun race, great course, excellent coverage.
> 
> In addition to her blistering climbing, the poise of Lecomte on the downhills was something else - her speed through corners is incredible.


I'd say she rates right there with Neff on descending, she is that good.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Pidcock is just fucking unreal, from 100th place to 5th place with a flat tyre, one of the most impressive rides ever, even more special when you think that it took MVDP 5 races to get his first top10 finish. For Nove Mesto he has to be the Heavy favorite.
Nino's last descent was crazy, thought the win was his after that.
It's gonna suck big time if Pidcock doesn't get Olympic spot, that qualification system is rubbish, if a rider who is capable of winning the gold can't attend then wtf?? Pretty much in every other sport if you get a good enough result you qualify for Olympic, in XCO it should be something same, if you get a top20 or smth position you qualify automatically.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

He should have raced Senior Men last year. Not U23. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

PFP racing with a watch strapped to her bars instead of a head unit.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow what an opening race! Great to see Koretzky with the win, he rode basically the perfect race. Schurter gave it everything on the last lap but it wasn't enough to drop him. No record equaling win for Nino this time around bit the form he's in, it will surely come this season.

Pidcock was incredible, from like 90th position on the start to finish 5th is just mind blowing. Albstadt is the perfect track for him with the longest steepest climbs on the World Cup circuit and short sharp descents, will be interesting to see how he goes on the more technical less climb heavy course. What a debut in the Elite category though, with a better start position he is for sure going to be fighting for wins in the coming weeks.

MVDP 7th after going mental on the first lap which I suspect burnt way too many matches. Was an odd tactic on such a difficult course for him. If its a sign of what he can do on the less climby boi courses though then he's going to be right up there in subsequent races. Whilst the climbers course didn't really suit him I'd imagine he would still be disappointed not to be on the podium. He had a similar return to racing in 2019 though at Les Gets after taking a mid season break and was 15th there on a similarly climby course. He then won the next 2 World Cups so there's good signs for him yet, of course he likes the Nove Mesto course as well so you'd expect him to be fighting for the in this weekend.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He said before the weekend that he didn't think he had the form; and wasn't in the same condition as when he was last on the MTB, in Lenzerheide 2019. The 20 min XCC isn't a good indicator of form - today in the XCO was; he's not quite there. For all his talents, he most definitely isn't a pure climber - be it on the road, CX or MTB. Short, punchy climbs are his territory - and when on top form, very few can stay with him.
He'll hope next week will be better, and it's a course better suited to his strengths. But that is his last MTB race before the Olympics......It's an 'interesting' preparation.....


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

Lol well he is pretty unconventional in most things that the does on a bike so I guess its only fitting that his Olympic MTB prep includes the TDF!

Can't wait for Nove Mesto. Pidcock's performance on Sunday and his subsequent much better starting position this weekend really throws the cat among the pigeons. Nino likes Nove Mesto as well having won there 5 times throughout his career. Not to write of the other riders like Flueckiger or Cooper (who both appear to be in greatr form) but a 3 way battle between MVDP, TP and Nino is a tantalizing prospect.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Congrats to Christopher Blevins for 16th in Short Track and 13th in XC in his first world cup! As I understand it he was a last-minute substitution. I've had my eye on him since the Cactus Cup earlier this year--supremely skilled and physically talented. I think he's the USA's best talent in XC racing in many years and I hope he gets the nod for the Olympic team.

"We will watch your career with great interest."


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

Anyone else notice nino’s fork wasn’t locked in the sprint? Seemed like it wasn’t locked as much during the entire race as in the past (coming out of corners, flat sections, etc).


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

daveinaus said:


> MVDP 7th after going mental on the first lap which I suspect burnt way too many matches. Was an odd tactic on such a difficult course for him. If its a sign of what he can do on the less climby boi courses though then he's going to be right up there in subsequent races. Whilst the climbers course didn't really suit him I'd imagine he would still be disappointed not to be on the podium. He had a similar return to racing in 2019 though at Les Gets after taking a mid season break and was 15th there on a similarly climby course. He then won the next 2 World Cups so there's good signs for him yet, of course he likes the Nove Mesto course as well so you'd expect him to be fighting for the in this weekend.


I think the heat affected him more than he expected.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton Cooper for 6th, 30s down. Not bad.
Sam Gaze 67th, 7:54 back out of 142 finishers.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> I think the heat affected him more than he expected.


I definitely wouldn't rule that either, although I think that aspect was abit overplayed by the commentators. Pretty sure in the end it was around 25c mark which is warm for that time of year but far from "hot", even for a Dutchman. I think its far more likely he just had 0 racing in his legs, it's always a shock to the system that first XCO race back.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I don't get MVDP's tactics. The course definitely doesn't suit him. He should know that the course doesn't suit Avancini either. Why burn yourself out at the beginning of the race riding with someone who has no chance of winning? His best hope was to just try to keep up with the lead pack, be in touch on the last lap, then see if you can unleash the 1000 watt blast near the top of the last climb and take the front before the descent.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

paramount3 said:


> Celine del Carmen Alvarado is racing in Albstadt tomorrow, starting position 99th. I'll be very curious to see how she does. The start position is obviously terrible. Maybe we can do some interpolation by looking at the U23 women's results recorded here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ceylin was a DNF. Never saw her at all in the race. Don't know what happened. Was hoping she would pull a Pidcock.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

daveinaus said:


> I definitely wouldn't rule that either, although I think that aspect was abit overplayed by the commentators. Pretty sure in the end it was around 25c mark which is warm for that time of year but far from "hot", even for a Dutchman. I think its far more likely he just had 0 racing in his legs, it's always a shock to the system that first XCO race back.


There was snow on the ground for the practice and in the XCC, some riders were wearing long sleeves and had their helmet vents closed off.

In the XCO he looked to be the only one with his top un-zipped completely and everyone was dumping water on their arms/legs/head near the end.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

paramount3 said:


> I don't get MVDP's tactics.


If you watch his races (especially on the road), he never wins races with superior tactics, in fact his tactics are usually terrible. He wins races on brute strength


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Magnificent race to watch, such a privilege.

It really was all over the place. Difficult to see Fluckiger with a technical, it may have panned out differently if was in the mix for the final - and funny to see it took them 5mins to diagnose dropper would not raise. I think most of us knew within seconds.

So happy for Koretzky. This will be a very very interesting season with probably most spread of different winners.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I had to laugh a little that the mens race was won on a hardtail with a rigid post. Interesting to see failed droppers in the mens xco and womens short track. Disclaimer, I have a dropper and very much enjoy using it.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Emily Batty is missing in action. Probably her age?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MVDP had a terrible race because its a very heavily climbing focused course. Average gradient for the climbs is around 18%.

It's a hardtail course. All full sus riders used a 100%lock out for the rear suspension with no blow off or any freedom of movement. The CFR used fully open modes for descending. MVDP is understood to have used 3 position settings for his 2022 Fox 34 SC 100mm.. Basically the fully guys could have and should have just used hardtails. 

Both races won on old school geometry bikes..... Lol


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Emily Batty is missing in action. Probably her age?


Finished 27th and no age has nothing to do with it. She's a one peak per season rider so my guess she wants to be in peak form for Tokyo. She'll have to come into the season off a lower base so she's quite consistent


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Brad said:


> MVDP had a terrible race because its a very heavily climbing focused course. Average gradient for the climbs is around 18%.
> 
> It's a hardtail course. All full sus riders used a 100%lock out for the rear suspension with no blow off or any freedom of movement. The CFR used fully open modes for descending. MVDP is understood to have used 3 position settings for his 2022 Fox 34 SC 100mm.. Basically the fully guys could have and should have just used hardtails.
> 
> Both races won on old school geometry bikes..... Lol


I don't think HT vs FS had anything to do with it. Sarrou won WC last year on a FS without a dropper when most of competitors opted for HT on an obviously HT friendly (and dropper friendly) course and condition set.

I do think that, on the day, stronger man/woman will win regardless of HT/FS/Dropper equipment choice (unless it breaks .


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

daveinaus said:


> I definitely wouldn't rule that either, although I think that aspect was a bit overplayed by the commentators. Pretty sure in the end it was around 25c mark which is warm for that time of year but far from "hot", even for a Dutchman. I think its far more likely he just had 0 racing in his legs, it's always a shock to the system that first XCO race back.


Possibly a combination of both; first warm weather racing of the year, and the first 'full gas' racing for a while; ( nearly 2 years since his last XCO race, and 3-4 months since the CX Worlds). 5-6 hour road races don't have the intensity of a 1h 20 min XCO race.

What is funny is I've read comments from people saying both: 'he can't handle the heat' & ' he's no good in cold conditions'. Yet he's won in all weathers.....


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think HT vs FS had anything to do with it. Sarrou won WC last year on a FS without a dropper when most of competitors opted for HT on an obviously HT friendly (and dropper friendly) course and condition set.
> 
> I do think that, on the day, stronger man/woman will win regardless of HT/FS/Dropper equipment choice (unless it breaks .


agreed  Its not about the bike or the HA


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Am I the only one who thinks MvdP should be on a 34 SC? He is not a small man.

Has the US officially locked in 3 qualifying spots yet? If it wasn't locked in last year, it had to be after yesterday. 

Edit: Is it UCI ranking by country, or WC ranking by country? If the former, that's stupid. If the latter, I'm pretty sure the US is in the top 2 now.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Am I the only one who thinks MvdP should be on a 34 SC? He is not a small man.
> 
> Has the US officially locked in 3 qualifying spots yet? If it wasn't locked in last year, it had to be after yesterday.


MVDP is riding a 2022 Fox 34 SC 100mm

US men or US women?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

csteven71 said:


> I had to laugh a little that the mens race was won on a hardtail with a rigid post. Interesting to see failed droppers in the mens xco and womens short track. Disclaimer, I have a dropper and very much enjoy using it.


The dropper failures cost the woman leading the Short Track race on Friday the win and the dropper failure cost MF the win in Sunday's men's XCO race. Kudos for VK winning on a hardtail with no dropper...he definitely has skills and racing smarts.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Am I the only one who thinks MvdP should be on a 34 SC? He is not a small man.
> 
> Has the US officially locked in 3 qualifying spots yet? If it wasn't locked in last year, it had to be after yesterday.


I thought Koretsky looked awkward on the descents and moguls and would've won by greater had he ridden a modern bike.

MVDP is not all that big, but I know the feeling of wanting to just power past the comp in the first 20' and leave them, perhaps he was a little over-confident after some amazing wins this year. We all know Koretsky lucked out.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Anyone notice how PFP had to flick the tail around to make the turns on the downhill boardwalk? While LL simply steered in and took the turns easy as pie.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think HT vs FS had anything to do with it. Sarrou won WC last year on a FS without a dropper when most of competitors opted for HT on an obviously HT friendly (and dropper friendly) course and condition set.
> 
> I do think that, on the day, stronger man/woman will win regardless of HT/FS/Dropper equipment choice (unless it breaks .


Jordan Sarrou won the WC on a BMC Fourstroke with an integrated dropper post. You can't see it just by looking at the bike. I know this cuz I have one and play the ''my post slipped'' card when I'm dropped on climbs...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

MattMay said:


> Strategic lodging position with a newborn as a competitive weapon...pure genius!


Best. Comment. Ever.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Where did Haley Batten come from? I'm also really impressed with her riding style. Her attack position looks like a downhiller or motocross rider's.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Jordan Sarrou won the WC on a BMC Fourstroke with an integrated dropper post. You can't see it just by looking at the bike. I know this cuz I have one and play the ''my post slipped'' card when I'm dropped on climbs...


You are right.

I am not so certain Koretzky would have a larger gap with a FS and/or a dropper here. On last descent he didn't lose any significant time on Schurter although Nino took it to extreme.

Anyhow, he won, it was up, and down, same for everybody and he won - strongest man with the best power rationalization for the race. And I am so glad because they all work so hard and it is a bit "unfair" to have only a few select to have all the wins.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> You are right.
> 
> I am not so certain Koretzky would have a larger gap with a FS and/or a dropper here. On last descent he didn't lose any significant time on Schurter although Nino took it to extreme.
> 
> Anyhow, he won, it was up, and down, same for everybody and he won - strongest man with the best power rationalization for the race. And I am so glad because they all work so hard and it is a bit "unfair" to have only a few select to have all the wins.


I had to laugh at a previous posters comments on Koretsky would have won by a greater margin on a more modern bike. The Alma is a 1 year old and it finished ahead of more fashionable geo bikes ridden by guys with supposedly better pedigree and yet somehow with this dated and inferior he managed to take his first XCO win by share luck. To boot he was soooo lucy that he beat a 7 time World Cup champ, winner of 32 world cups, the Olympic champ, the current World Champ, the current CX world champ, the current U23 world champ. Luck VK to the top of the climb 6 times in the leading group....

Yip thats really lucky. AS Gary Player responded to a commentator who asked him how he could be so lucky as to hit two holes-in-one at the same tournament: " Yes I guess I am lucky and you know what, .....the more I practise the luckier I get!"


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't see anybody saying that Koretzky was lucky to win? He 100% earned that win.

But i believe nino would have had a better chance with a HT. His bike with a heavy axs dropper, 2.4" tyres and FS , weighs about 10.5kg, i think Koretzkys HT is about 9kgs. 1.5kg is a pretty fair amount of weight


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't think we're in a position to tutor wc racers on equipment choice. 
He was well aware of bike choices, knows his grams vs efficiency better than any mortal and had all the bikes around, not a budget racer that can only bring one frameset overseas.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think we're in a position to tutor wc racers on equipment choice.
> He was well aware of bike choices, knows his grams vs efficiency better than any mortal and had all the bikes around, not a budget racer that can only bring one frameset overseas.


Sometimes having all the different options around isn't easiest


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

tick_magnet said:


> Where did Haley Batten come from? I'm also really impressed with her riding style. Her attack position looks like a downhiller or motocross rider's.


She didn't come from out of the blue. She had a really successful career as a U23, including a World Cup win and multiple podiums, and 4th at worlds last fall. Perhaps maybe has just always been overshadowed by the attention on Kate.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Congrats to Christopher Blevins for 16th in Short Track and 13th in XC in his first world cup! As I understand it he was a last-minute substitution. I've had my eye on him since the Cactus Cup earlier this year--supremely skilled and physically talented. I think he's the USA's best talent in XC racing in many years and I hope he gets the nod for the Olympic team.
> 
> "We will watch your career with great interest."


Blevins was an BMX National Champ. Started noticing him oddly enough on the road, then in cross as a junior. He won U23 cross nationals in Reno, check this clip. 



Also his crash in the sprint at the Ironhorse Classic is gnarly.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Whats wrong with Koretsky's bike?

Its a carbon, 29er which I think non-negotiable features for xc race.

Anyway, im not an expert. Im learning from you guys. 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

One more thing, I follow Kate Courtney on instagram and I always see her in full dripping sweat during warm up.

Isnt it too much? I mean, it could've been 15%-20% of her energy saved that day.


Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Whats wrong with Koretsky's bike?
> 
> Its a carbon, 29er which I think non-negotiable features for xc race.
> 
> ...


Just your standard 9.05kg Orbea Alma.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

From very cold to 27deg on raceday.


Tom Pidcock said:


> I was happy with how it went," said Pidcock. "It was very hot and I think a lot of guys blew themselves up on the first lap, me included. After that I tried to just settle in. But I had a slow leak in my rear tire and on the last lap it had gone completely flat by the time I got to the finish. But next week I'll be able to do the Short Track, and hopefully I can go for a front row start in the XCO and I'll be in a much better situation.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> One more thing, I follow Kate Courtney on instagram and I always see her in full dripping sweat during warm up.
> 
> Isnt it too much? I mean, it could've been 15%-20% of her energy saved that day.


If you're not completely warmed up, you're not going to compete on the start lap and you may end up having to try to come past 120 other riders...


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

As you debate Koretzky's bike choice, note that Loana Lecomte, who looks to weigh perhaps 100 lbs dripping wet, won the women's race on a FS bike, but with a rigid post. I haven't seen her ride a dropper post. I'm not a racer (I play one on TV....) but I find the traction of FS on bumpy climbs really helps vs a hardtail. And pedaling on bumpy flats feels more efficient with FS because you don't have to use energy raising your butt off the saddle a couple mm compensating for bumps. Yes, you do spend energy heating up the oil in the shock, but there still could be a net gain in some situations for climbing. And of course FS is better for descents. I think a lot of racers reluctantly choose to ride hardtails because they have to ride the same bike in both the short track and the XC race. In the short track races, where the courses are typically like a graded dirt criterium, the light weight and rigidity of a hardtail are typically an advantage. I think the introduction of the short track race, with its point values and influence on the starting order, and the requirement that you ride the same bike in both races, has had a major effect on the sport at the world cup level, not entirely beneficial. Yana Belamoina was essentially dethroned by the change (well, she broke her hip also). And I don't understand why the bike manufacturers don't get the "same bike" rule thrown out. Think about it: why should sponsors want a rule that encourages the best racers in the world to ride bikes that are NOT the most technologically-advanced (and not coincidentally, expensive) bikes that are made? Sure, I get to watch 4 races in a weekend instead of just 2, but I don't think the Friday short track is ultimately a good innovation. Should the Boston Marathon introduce a Friday night qualifying 5K?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

sooshee said:


> She didn't come from out of the blue. She had a really successful career as a U23, including a World Cup win and multiple podiums, and 4th at worlds last fall. Perhaps maybe has just always been overshadowed by the attention on Kate.


I was glad to see Haley get the best of Kate this round. I think she has suffered for recognition under her shadow.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

paramount3 said:


> As you debate Koretzky's bike choice, note that Loana Lecomte, who looks to weigh perhaps 100 lbs dripping wet, won the women's race on a FS bike, but with a rigid post. I haven't seen her ride a dropper post. I'm not a racer (I play one on TV....) but I find the traction of FS on bumpy climbs really helps vs a hardtail. And pedaling on bumpy flats feels more efficient with FS because you don't have to use energy raising your butt off the saddle a couple mm compensating for bumps. Yes, you do spend energy heating up the oil in the shock, but there still could be a net gain in some situations for climbing. And of course FS is better for descents. I think a lot of racers reluctantly choose to ride hardtails because they have to ride the same bike in both the short track and the XC race. In the short track races, where the courses are typically like a graded dirt criterium, the light weight and rigidity of a hardtail are typically an advantage. I think the introduction of the short track race, with its point values and influence on the starting order, and the requirement that you ride the same bike in both races, has had a major effect on the sport at the world cup level, not entirely beneficial. Yana Belamoina was essentially dethroned by the change (well, she broke her hip also). And I don't understand why the bike manufacturers don't get the "same bike" rule thrown out. Think about it: why should sponsors want a rule that encourages the best racers in the world to ride bikes that are NOT the most technologically-advanced (and not coincidentally, expensive) bikes that are made? Sure, I get to watch 4 races in a weekend instead of just 2, but I don't think the Friday short track is ultimately a good innovation. Should the Boston Marathon introduce a Friday night qualifying 5K?


I love watching the Friday Short Track races...it is great for the fans. Long live the hardtail!


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> I love watching the Friday Short Track races...it is great for the fans. Long live the hardtail!


Me too...but I also agree w/ Stone. The one bike rule is dumb. Why not: two different races...ride whatever you want in either?

Anyone know what happened with Evie? When I looked at her media, it looked like "bad day." Any more details?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

So, if I'm correct, the US is 312 points behind Switzerland for 2nd.





__





IFrame






dataride.uci.ch





Need to have an absolute banger of a Friday/Sunday this weekend to qualify three. I'm sure it's theoretically possible to knock SUI down a peg, but I don't know that it's realistic. Our 3/4/5 finishers would have to be in/near the top 10 and SUI can't have anyone in the top 10 for that to happen.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> So, if I'm correct, the US is 312 points behind Switzerland for 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Olympic ranking are different than nation ranking. The Nation ranking is a rolling one-year ranking, where as the Olympic ranks are 2018, 2019, World cups and WC 2020, and first two World cups 2021. It use to be listed on the UCI site but I can't find it now.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> The Olympic ranking are different than nation ranking. The Nation ranking is a rolling one-year ranking, where as the Olympic ranks are 2018, 2019, World cups and WC 2020, and first two World cups 2021. It use to be listed on the UCI site but I can't find it now.


That's what I thought. Someone posted that link on PB; I was a bit skeptical but FRA has been knocking it out of the park lately with Lecomte and PFP.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I think the short track is a great idea for seeding, makes the races more exciting. But I’m torn in that in a race like this one or biases towards otherwise useless hardtails. The course was pretty much a smooth, steep dirt road. Perhaps Nino should’ve broken out his silver medal 27.5 hard tail, right...

By lucky I meant that Avancini and Van Der Poel blew each other up in Lap 1. Could Koretsly win a sprint with those guys? Mr. Schurter is amazing to watch (like the double jump he threw down from the top at the end of the last lap), but at age 34 I wonder if he’s losing his top end—happens to the best of us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> I think the short track is a great idea for seeding, makes the races more exciting. But I'm torn in that in a race like this one or biases towards otherwise useless hardtails. The course was pretty much a smooth, steep dirt road. Perhaps Nino should've broken out his silver medal 27.5 hard tail, right...
> 
> By lucky I meant that Avancini and Van Der Poel blew each other up in Lap 1. Could Koretsly win a sprint with those guys? Mr. Schurter is amazing to watch (like the double jump he threw down from the top at the end of the last lap), but at age 34 I wonder if he's losing his top end-happens to the best of us.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Albstadt has always been a hardtail course. For some people this is the only race of the year that they use their hardtail for. Interestingly, the reports I heard was the course was rougher this year and people are starting about using a dually for it.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Nowadays, efficiency trumps weight in most courses. 

Now, who do we got for NM?
Women: 
Pauline
Neff
KC
LL
Haley Batten

Men:
Nino
Pidcock
MvDP
Avancini
Cooper

Dark Horses:
Women - Sina Frey
Men - Blevins


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

I really enjoy following this forum during the racing season – so many of you are so knowledgeable! I’ve only been following the elites since 2014 – that was about when youngsters Jolanda and Pauline were exploding onto the scene with such dominance…

During the 2017 season, I remember writing that the coming years were going to be amazing with the competitiveness of these five ladies: Jolanda Neff, Pauline Ferrand Prevot, Yana Belomoyna, Jenny Rissveds and the up and coming U23 Kate Courtney. It’s remarkable to me that four years later four of those five have been through very challenging life events and are still competitive. All five have been champions of some sort and last weekend four were in the top ten!

Loana Lecomte seems to be cut from the same cloth as those five above. 

I’m really looking forward to this weekend and the rest of the season! Enjoy the race!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

The last 4 Elite men's XCO races, going back to Snowshoe in 2019 have all been won by different riders - and all first time winners; Forster, Andreassen, Avancini & Koretztky. Will we see another first time winner? 
Both races last year in Nove Mesto were quite tactical, probably a result of the strange season, and nobody really knowing were their form was.
Nino, is looking back on form, and has an excellent record at NMM, so will be a contender. As will Koretzky, Flueckinger & MvdP. Will be interesting to see how Pidcock goes on this less climbing, but more technical course.

As for the women - it's hard to look past either Lecomte or PF-P; who won both races last year.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> As you debate Koretzky's bike choice, note that Loana Lecomte, who looks to weigh perhaps 100 lbs dripping wet, won the women's race on a FS bike, but with a rigid post. I haven't seen her ride a dropper post. I'm not a racer (I play one on TV....) but I find the traction of FS on bumpy climbs really helps vs a hardtail. And pedaling on bumpy flats feels more efficient with FS because you don't have to use energy raising your butt off the saddle a couple mm compensating for bumps. Yes, you do spend energy heating up the oil in the shock, but there still could be a net gain in some situations for climbing. And of course FS is better for descents. I think a lot of racers reluctantly choose to ride hardtails because they have to ride the same bike in both the short track and the XC race. In the short track races, where the courses are typically like a graded dirt criterium, the light weight and rigidity of a hardtail are typically an advantage. I think the introduction of the short track race, with its point values and influence on the starting order, and the requirement that you ride the same bike in both races, has had a major effect on the sport at the world cup level, not entirely beneficial. Yana Belamoina was essentially dethroned by the change (well, she broke her hip also). And I don't understand why the bike manufacturers don't get the "same bike" rule thrown out. Think about it: why should sponsors want a rule that encourages the best racers in the world to ride bikes that are NOT the most technologically-advanced (and not coincidentally, expensive) bikes that are made? Sure, I get to watch 4 races in a weekend instead of just 2, but I don't think the Friday short track is ultimately a good innovation. Should the Boston Marathon introduce a Friday night qualifying 5K?


I think those are good points about why the same bike rule is flawed. Rules like this are neat in one-off odd events like Downieville, but I agree that the logic for it in WC is weird. Maybe the logic is like in smaller stage races on the road that feature a TT stage where they don't want the richer uber teams to have unfair advantages with super tricked out TT bikes and so they make everyone do the TT on their standard road bike. The MTB parallel being they don't want big teams that can show up with a fleet of bikes to have unfair advantage against small teams or privateers with a much smaller stable of bikes. But then again this is the top end of world competition, the best should be able to use their best weapons to entertain us.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I like the "one bike" rule as it makes for interesting strategy. I also like to see riders using a hardtail with no dropper for the weight savings and you can see who really has skills. VK has skills!


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> By lucky I meant that Avancini and Van Der Poel blew each other up in Lap 1. Could Koretsly win a sprint with those guys?


Schurter is a great sprinter.
Koretzky was stronger on the day, same as Asgreen broke MvdP in Flanders against all (most) odds.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I appreciate seeing hardtails out there. Hardtails still have some practical advantages for your average user - less maintenance, lighter weight, cheaper, more practical. In our local races, 1/3 to 1/2 of the Cat 1 guys are still running hardtails across a variety of trails. Sure in an ideal situation where money and time is no object, I would prefer a full suspension bike. 

I also think people attribute too much to the bike handling aspect of hardtails vs full suspension. Most people who are good bike handlers are not going to struggle with bike handling on a hardtail on an XC course. Heck, Connor Fearon even won a pro enduro race in Australia on a Honzo. I think one of the main advantages of a full suspension bike is that it allows you to carry more momentum over rough or rooty terrain much like running low pressure decreases rolling resistance on trail imperfections. That is going to be true on most courses, but occassionally, you get courses like Albstadt that are smooth and climby enough that climbing efficiency becomes a little more important. Still, we are talking about tradeoffs in marginal gains.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Schurter at his best was a good sprinter. However everyone's fast-twitch muscles fall off with age. Father time is undefeated, as Charles Barkely would say. You can keep your FTP high for many years, but sprinting and dunking the basketball is for young men.



Goran_injo said:


> Schurter is a great sprinter.
> Koretzky was stronger on the day, same as Asgreen broke MvdP in Flanders against all (most) odds.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> I think those are good points about why the same bike rule is flawed. Rules like this are neat in one-off odd events like Downieville, but I agree that the logic for it in WC is weird. Maybe the logic is like in smaller stage races on the road that feature a TT stage where they don't want the richer uber teams to have unfair advantages with super tricked out TT bikes and so they make everyone do the TT on their standard road bike. The MTB parallel being they don't want big teams that can show up with a fleet of bikes to have unfair advantage against small teams or privateers with a much smaller stable of bikes. But then again this is the top end of world competition, the best should be able to use their best weapons to entertain us.


the entertainment is the man on man or woman on woman competition. You're right the reason the bikes have to be selected on Friday morning before the XCC is to ensure fair competition. I asked a few of the team managers abut this over December and they approve of the concept because it reduces the workload on the mechanics. If riders had a spare bike available or multiple bikes to prepare they would need an extra mechanic or two, have to ship extra bikes around and move more people which all adds up to much higher costs that would drive many out of the sport. So the current rules help create the spectacle that you enjoy on RedBull.TV


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> I appreciate seeing hardtails out there. Hardtails still have some practical advantages for your average user - less maintenance, lighter weight, cheaper, more practical. In our local races, 1/3 to 1/2 of the Cat 1 guys are still running hardtails across a variety of trails. Sure in an ideal situation where money and time is no object, I would prefer a full suspension bike.
> 
> I also think people attribute too much to the bike handling aspect of hardtails vs full suspension. Most people who are good bike handlers are not going to struggle with bike handling on a hardtail on an XC course. Heck, Connor Fearon even won a pro enduro race in Australia on a Honzo. I think one of the main advantages of a full suspension bike is that it allows you to carry more momentum over rough or rooty terrain much like running low pressure decreases rolling resistance on trail imperfections. That is going to be true on most courses, but occassionally, you get courses like Albstadt that are smooth and climby enough that climbing efficiency becomes a little more important. Still, we are talking about tradeoffs in marginal gains.


a good mate of mine races #enduro on a steel hardtail built by David Mercer. He wipes his **** with riders on much more expensive fully kitted enduro rigs. He hasn't broken that Hungry Monkey yet either


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Schurter at his best was a good sprinter. However everyone's fast-twitch muscles fall off with age. Father time is undefeated, as Charles Barkely would say. You can keep your FTP high for many years, but sprinting and dunking the basketball is for young men.


We have differing definitions of sprinters. I consider the term sprinter at XCO racing as somebody who will win for top place(s) at the end of an XCO race. Have a look at Nino's track record on those duels and dare to say he was/is "good at his best".

Term sprinter, as taken from road racing can't be transposed to the XCO racing term, as top road sprinters, on a WC race and on XCO track, would beat anybody they are near to in a sprint, but for minor places.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Physiologically there is no difference. Sure there's a difference in skill, but that's beside the point. The point is that Nino Schurter is 34 years old. Generally you reach a physical peak around age 28--with cycling this is only the beginning, but fast-twitch muscles that make someone a good sprinter don't age well. By age 34 there will inevitably be a drop-off. We're seeing some advanced sports medicine these days that is pushing back the clock, and I know he works with some great trainers in Switzerland, but it's going to decline precipitously for him, Lebron James (age 36), and Mark Cavendish (age 35).



Goran_injo said:


> We have differing definitions of sprinters. I consider the term sprinter at XCO racing as somebody who will win for top place(s) at the end of an XCO race. Have a look at Nino's track record on those duels and dare to say he was/is "good at his best".
> 
> Term sprinter, as taken from road racing can't be transposed to the XCO racing term, as top road sprinters, on a WC race and on XCO track, would beat anybody they are near to in a sprint, but for minor places.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Point is that you wrote that Schurter was "at his best, a good sprinter", which is, in XCO context, nonsense.

And even now, Koretzky, hungry as hell for his first win, barely got the best of him in a sprint and nobody else was around.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The last race was interesting in the sense that it showed Nino no longer has the advantage in the technical parts. 

A few years ago Nino realized he could gain so much time in the technical parts that he became the best technical rider in XCO, everyone was a step behind. Since last season and current one, everyone is up to the challenge, even if they are losing time to Nino is almost insignificant. Koretsky, Fluckiger, Avancini, MVdP and other top riders can follow Nino without much trouble in the technical parts. 

In the last race Nino risked everything in the last descent and Koretsky followed easily only losing around 1-2 seconds on a hardtail with no dropper. Of course Koretsky is no slouch, he is up there along Nino and Fluckiger when it comes to bike skill and unsurprinsgly I knew he was gonna outsprint Nino as he has done it before multiple times, something people seem to be forgetting.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The women field is getting even more interesting. Newcomers keep getting in the elite ranks and dominating, a sign that the women division has plenty of potential to grow. Former world champions are having trouble staying within the top 10 and have an even harder time replicating their best results. This is great for us viewers, but those those old riders on the field will have a shock in the next years when they realize how far behind they are to the top runners. 

It takes a strong rider dominating a few years in a row to show where the limit to performance is, something that right now doesn't exist in the women field.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> Point is that you wrote that Schurter was "at his best, a good sprinter", which is, in XCO context, nonsense.
> 
> And even now, Koretzky, hungry as hell for his first win, barely got the best of him in a sprint and nobody else was around.


Schurter was never a sprinter and never will be. He's more all rounder than anything else. This is a defined cycling attribute withn cycling coaching circles and relate to the distribution of his power profile


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> This is a defined cycling attribute withn cycling coaching circles and relate to the distribution of his power profile


Within ROAD cycling coaching circles.

A sprinter is one who can sprint better than his peers.
Someone like MvdP, Gaze, Nino where if you want to win a heads up sprint you'd better get a REALLY good jump on them.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Red Bull TV links as they're always hard to find later on:

Women's XCO Albstadt 09 May 2021








Women's XCO final – Albstadt


Watch the women's cross-country final as the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup 2021 arrives in Albstadt, Germany.




www.redbull.com





Men's XCO Albstadt 09 May 2021








Men's XCO final – Albstadt


Watch the men's cross-country final as the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup 2021 arrives in Albstadt, Germany.




www.redbull.com





Photos of the races from Pinkbike:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-hardpack-soundtrack-albstadt-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Full results from Pinkbike:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-albstadt-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Leona Lecomte was really strong in the women's race! She did exactly what Mathieu Van Der Poel tried to do in the men's race (get a big gap early on) but then after doing that she was able to hold it all the way to the finish too. A theme seemed to be that many of the fast starters were fading badly later on but she started fast and it was only on the final lap that she looked to be feeling it. Leona Lecomte reminded me a bit of watching Jolanda Neff when Jolanda Neff was first winning World Cups - super smooth up the climbs and really fast on the descents as well. The notable thing about her style was how still her upper body is out of the saddle and how little she rocks the bike from side to side. If you watch the very start of the race off the line Leona Lecomte is in the middle of the pack and her bike is the one that's going in a completely straight line.

Is Jenny Rissveds still riding as an independent? She had Specialized logos on her jersey and shorts but isn't riding for the Specialized factory team.

The men's race was quite changeable. A lot of the riders who started fast and looked like possible contenders at the beginning faded. Jordan Sarrou finished 11th 2min 06 seconds down, Milan Vader finished 25th 3min 43 seconds down, Lars Forster finished 52nd 6min 25 seconds down.

I was quite surprised that Victor Koretzky was able to get away with just sitting behind and marking Nino Schurter all race. In the group of 4 with Nino Schurter, Mathias Fluckiger and Ondrej Cink the others were all spending time on the front at some point whilst it was only on one of the very last laps on the start finish straight that Mathias Fluckiger was getting a bit annoyed and he was forced reluctantly through to second wheel. I don't think he's going to be allowed to repeat that tactic again next week at Nove Mesto!

Tom Pidcock looked good. His bike handling skills seemed ok to me! The inter rider dynamics were interesting there again. He's not someone most of the XC World Cup regulars have raced against and they weren't giving him an inch!

--------
If you watch the key part of the race where he took the shorter steeper line up the hill, whilst the rest of the group took the longer line, he got chopped hard by Nino Schurter at the point where the two lines rejoined, to the point where Tom Pidcock had to put a foot down and lost a lot of ground. You can see that joining point between the lines on every lap of the women's race (it's a distant shot in the men's race replay) and it's quite wide. If that had been someone else but Tom Pidcock Nino Schurter and the others could have given him room there if they wanted to. 
---------

*Edit:* That comment above is incorrect. I watched it again and it's actually Tom Pidcock who wobbles and stops, giving way to the other riders, instead of them blocking him in any way. See picture 56minutes 27seconds into Red Bull replay:

With a good start position for Nove Mesto it's going to be between Tom Pidcock and Mathieu Van Der Poel for the win I reckon (the Nove Mesto course suits Mathieu Van Der Poel a lot more).


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> the entertainment is the man on man or woman on woman competition. You're right the reason the bikes have to be selected on Friday morning before the XCC is to ensure fair competition. I asked a few of the team managers abut this over December and they approve of the concept because it reduces the workload on the mechanics. If riders had a spare bike available or multiple bikes to prepare they would need an extra mechanic or two, have to ship extra bikes around and move more people which all adds up to much higher costs that would drive many out of the sport. So the current rules help create the spectacle that you enjoy on RedBull.TV


I'm calling shenanigans! Is there a top 15 or 20 XCO WC rider who doesn't have (at least) two bikes? I have no insider knowledge, but I'm thinking there isnt.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> I'm calling shenanigans! Is there a top 15 or 20 XCO WC rider who doesn't have (at least) two bikes? I have no insider knowledge, but I'm thinking there isnt.


Read what you wrote over and over and let it sink in.
Then read what I wrote again


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

How good is Koretzky is right now!

To hold those wheels on the descents on a hardtail with highpost was impressive. Was the fact that he was on a significantly lighter bike than Nino that enable him to keep in contact on the climbs.

It will be interesting to see if he can back that up again this weekend. Being a big guy Nova Mesto should suit him more than Albstadt. But often when people have a career ride one weekend they struggle the next.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

smartyiak said:


> I'm calling shenanigans! Is there a top 15 or 20 XCO WC rider who doesn't have (at least) two bikes? I have no insider knowledge, but I'm thinking there isnt.


The problem is we would start to get short track specific bikes. As it is there is starting to be some significant changes made to bikes, narrow bars, gravel tires, and massive chain rings are just a few.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> The problem is we would start to get short track specific bikes. As it is there is starting to be some significant changes made to bikes, narrow bars, gravel tires, and massive chain rings are just a few.


Which already keeps mechanics busy. Now imagine they had bikes for short track, xco wet weather dry weather etcetera. Would we see a Koretsky type win or do we end up with Snormula 1...?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> Which already keeps mechanics busy. Now imagine they had bikes for short track, xco wet weather dry weather etcetera. Would we see a Koretsky type win or do we end up with Snormula 1...?


Different bikes for XC and Short track would be a logistic nightmare for teams, particularly the smaller or medium size teams. Big teams of a rider mechanic ratio of 2 to 1, the small and medium ones are 4 to 1 or even 6 to 1.

Plus, it is really a non-issue. Everybody chooses their bike based on what is best for the XC. I don't of a single rider who factors short track into their bike choice for the weekend.


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## daveinaus (Oct 10, 2011)

LMN said:


> Plus, it is really a non-issue. Everybody chooses their bike based on what is best for the XC. I don't of a single rider who factors short track into their bike choice for the weekend.


This is the reason it really doesn't matter. Its an even playing field and has no effect in Sundays race because bike choice is not dictated by the XCC on Friday

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Within ROAD cycling coaching circles.
> 
> A sprinter is one who can sprint better than his peers.
> Someone like MvdP, Gaze, Nino where if you want to win a heads up sprint you'd better get a REALLY good jump on them.


Even within road cycling (let alone XCO as a completely different discipline), sprinter term is used in context.

Road WC in Austria, Valverde beat Bardet, Dumoulin and Woods in a sprint. All pure sprinters, eh? "Real" sprinters didn't even show up on the race.


----------



## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

LMN said:


> The problem is we would start to get short track specific bikes. As it is there is starting to be some significant changes made to bikes, narrow bars, gravel tires, and massive chain rings are just a few.


I read a Geoff Kabush tweet after the WC races where he seemed to wonder why more of the field aren't using semi slick skinnier tires in the short track. I do remember him winning a lot of short tracks and often mentioning his special roll-fast tires as one of his advantages. Do you think he is right? Or do you notice any focus on special tires for the short track?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> I read a Geoff Kabush tweet after the WC races where he seemed to wonder why more of the field aren't using semi slick skinnier tires in the short track. I do remember him winning a lot of short tracks and often mentioning his special roll-fast tires as one of his advantages. Do you think he is right? Or do you notice any focus on special tires for the short track?


I saw that and I disagree with Geoff on this one. I think if you ran a really low tread tire you would be losing just a bit in some critical corners and apex corner speed trumps pure rolling resistance.

Geoff raced in an era where there was a bigger variance in the technical skills of the riders. He could use his skills to make up for a bit less cornering grip. If he were to try the same thing in todays field he would find that he was constantly having to close gaps after each corner.

I would argue that an aero-riding position (narrow bars, low front end) is way more important than tire choice. And I pretty sure the math would back me up on this one.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> Read what you wrote over and over and let it sink in.
> Then read what I wrote again


I read it....I just disagree. I think the "one bike" rule should go away. A TON of the riders have ridden these courses many many many times. Their bikes are set up for them and what's left to decide besides tires?

All of the courses have a similar XC terrain (some rougher, some smoother...some climby, some less so...but XCish), so they won't be using a gravel bike...or an enduro. Short track or marathon....they'll all choose: hardtail, XC, or maybe they get crazy with a "downcountry" bike (an XC bike with a 120 fork) if it's really rough.

Not to mention, MvDP used his fs with Fox 34 and won short track...but it wasn't his bike that cost him the win in the long race...if he thought the hardtail would suit him/course better, wouldn't he have chosen it for the short race, no? I doubt, had he the option of switching bikes, that he would chose fs for short and hardtail for long. I assume he chose it based on what was best for the long course....which just so happened to get him the win in short course.

I just don't buy the "burden" explanation. We're not talking F1 here...it's a bicycle. I would be willing to bet, the mechs can build the entire thing in a few hours, much less change out a chain ring and swap the tires.

I'm also not buying the "disparity" angle either. Larger teams with bigger budgets or "star" riders already get what they want (assuming it's available) while the rider ranked #112 doesn't.

It's just another dumb rule the UCI came up with that their too stubborn to change.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> Even within road cycling (let alone XCO as a completely different discipline), sprinter term is used in context.
> 
> Road WC in Austria, Valverde beat Bardet, Dumoulin and Woods in a sprint. All pure sprinters, eh? "Real" sprinters didn't even show up on the race.


"Sprinters" in cycling is interesting. There are a lot of amateurs that could out sprint the very best world tour sprinters if they were fresh at the start of the sprint. But those same guys are dropped in the first km of the road race.

I rode with a guy a couple of years ago who was Eliminator World Champion. His peak sprint wattage was 2500 watts, highest ever measured in Australia sports institute. Did some road racing but he just couldn't be anywhere near the front when the sprint started.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Goran_injo said:


> We have differing definitions of sprinters. I consider the term sprinter at XCO racing as somebody who will win for top place(s) at the end of an XCO race. Have a look at Nino's track record on those duels and dare to say he was/is "good at his best".
> 
> Term sprinter, as taken from road racing can't be transposed to the XCO racing term, as top road sprinters, on a WC race and on XCO track, would beat anybody they are near to in a sprint, but for minor places.


They would beat nobody, they would be so dead at the end of the races that they would get beaten by a 50kg xc rider


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

But predicting Nove mesto results, it's almost impossible, there's in my opinion 8 guys who all have very good possibility of winning : Pidcock,Koretzky,vdp,nino,avancini,cink,cooper,fluckiger. My pick would be Pidcock,Flückiger,Nino

And for womens there's 10 : lecomte,pfp,batten,courtney,terpstra,indergand,stigger,rissveds,neff,mcconnel

My pick would be Lecomte,pfp and Courtney.

Is it the golden years of the XCO? When i started watching XCO you knew it was either Nino or Absalon and others were far-far away, then Kulhavy emerged for a short time and then it was few years Nino absolutely crushing the field and pretty much same guys in the top5. Now we have about 10 guys and women who can win in any race and we have two of the cycling current hottest names vdp and pidcock racing.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> But predicting Nove mesto results, it's almost impossible, there's in my opinion 8 guys who all have very good possibility of winning : Pidcock,Koretzky,vdp,nino,avancini,cink,cooper,fluckiger. My pick would be Pidcock,Flückiger,Nino
> 
> And for womens there's 10 : lecomte,pfp,batten,courtney,terpstra,indergand,stigger,rissveds,neff,mcconnel
> 
> ...


It's really good that there's some uncertainty about who will win this year. It keeps everyone guessing.

In 2019 the Nove Mesto round was the one that Mathieu Van Der Poel won with that ridiculous late attack. In 2019 he dropped Nino Schurter so fast at the end it was like they were in different races!









Van der Poel fulminates Nino Schurter and wins the Nove Mesto World Cup 2019


Nino Schurter and Mathieu Van der Poel are at another level and in the Nove Mesto World Cup we saw the confirmation




www.brujulabike.com





It's not as hilly either so he is at nowhere near the disadvantage he had at Albstadt. Mathieu Van Der Poel or Tom Pidcock to win the men's race.

Leona Lecomte won the Elite Women's race at Nove Mesto in 2020 and coming off the win at Albstadt I think she will win Nove Mesto this year too.









Loana Lecomte wins Nove Mesto's first World Cup at 21 years old


Loana Lecomte reveals herself and wins the Nove Mesto 2020 World Cup 1




www.brujulabike.com


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Forecast is rain. It will be a thriller.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

WR304 said:


> It's really good that there's some uncertainty about who will win this year. It keeps everyone guessing.
> 
> In 2019 the Nove Mesto round was the one that Mathieu Van Der Poel won with that ridiculous late attack. In 2019 he dropped Nino Schurter so fast at the end it was like they were in different races!
> 
> ...


From my 2019 races files I see that Albstadt had 968m of climbing and Nova Mesto had 973m of climbing.

Nova Mesto has 3 short climbs per lap instead of two cling ones. But same total climbing.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> Forecast is rain. It will be a thriller.


Just puking rain right now but today is suppose to be it for heavy rain. Perfect day to skip my road ride, drink coffee and watch the Giro.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

LMN said:


> From my 2019 races files I see that Albstadt had 968m of climbing and Nova Mesto had 973m of climbing.
> 
> Nova Mesto has 3 short climbs per lap instead of two cling ones. But same total climbing.


From Ondrej Cink's Strava:

2021 Albstadt men's course
6 laps plus a start loop.
15.79 miles
1 hour 21 minutes 03 seconds
11.7mph average speed
3,596ft climbing (Garmin Edge 830)
292 watts average power

Albstadt
Climb 1 - 0.65 miles, 275ft elevation, 7.7% average gradient (Ondrej Cink first full lap = 4 min 31 sec, 8.7mph avg speed, 339 watts avg power)
Climb 2 - 0.23 miles, 184ft elevation, 14.9% average gradient (Ondrej Cink first full lap = 2 min 15 sec, 6.2mph avg speed, 372 watts avg power)









World Cup Albstadt P4 🔥 - Ondřej C.'s 25.4 km mountain bike ride


Ondřej C. rode 25.4 km on May 9, 2021.




www.strava.com





2019 Nove Mesto men's course
7 laps plus a start loop.
17.09 miles
1 hour 24 minutes 08 seconds
12.2mph average speed
2,733ft climbing (Garmin Edge 820)
283 watts average power

Nove Mesto
Climb 1 - 0.19 miles, 88ft elevation, 8.5% average gradient (Ondrej Cink first full lap = 1min 35 sec, 7.3 mph avg speed, 367 watts avg power)
Climb 2 - 0.22 miles, 139ft elevation, 11.9% average gradient (Ondrej Cink first full lap = 1min 54 sec, 6.9 mph avg speed, 399 watts avg power)
Climb 2 - 0.23 miles, 102ft elevation, 8.1% average gradient (Ondrej Cink first full lap = 1min 18 sec, 11.0 mph avg, 416 watts avg power)









World Cup NMnM 5th - Ondřej C.'s 27.5 km bike ride


Ondřej C. rode 27.5 km on May 26, 2019.




www.strava.com





That's off Strava so not exact for the climbing (different devices record different elevation totals) but it does show that per lap there is less climbing on the Nove Mesto course - it's spread out over a longer distance also with more "in between" pedally sections that suit a big powerful rider, rather than being completely uphill or downhill like Albstadt.

It's not really the total climbing per lap so much as the duration of the individual climbs. The punchy sub 2 minute climbs are short enough that Mathieu Van Der Poel can sprint up them doing 600 watts!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tech-randoms-nove-mesto-xc-world-cup-2021.html


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here's a look at Mathieu Van Der Poel's ride at the 09 May 2021 Albstadt World Cup XCO: 









WC Albstadt P7 - Mathieu V.'s 24.9 km bike ride


Mathieu V. rode 24.9 km on May 9, 2021.




www.strava.com





He set off flat out from the start, and then tried to make a gap early on. The start loop was at 45 watts above his full race average power but then on the long climb at the start of the first lap he tried to keep going at the same pace. He did 4 minutes 30 at 179bpm heart rate, 409 watts average power on the first long climb but that was too much as he blew up and was forced to ease of significantly to recover.

The second part of the lap and the next lap saw him backing the pace off. Although he blew up he recognised he'd gone out too hard, took the time to regroup and then lifted the pace again.

He then picked the pace up again but by then the gap had opened up so he was a long way behind the lead group. The final lap was probably easing off slightly as he realised that he was riding solo and that he wasn't going to make up any more places at that point.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

So a rock garden and more single track added to the Short Track course. At least one men's racer didn't think was good idea. Wonder how that will play out tomorrow. I prefer a less cyclocross style course, but I get why that is norm and the concerns. But racing is dangerous and more tech should mean a better rider has a tiny advantage or at least a chance against MVDP. But he'll probably just attack even earlier.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Well that’s one way to get rid of the hardtails 

I’d like to see if MVDP’s heart rate hit max, that’d confirm the blowup.

Predictions for Nove Mesto:

1. Van Der Poel
2. Avancini
3. Pidcock 
4. Koretsky
5. Schurter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

WR304 said:


> He then picked the pace up again but by then the gap had opened up so he was a long way behind the lead group. The final lap was probably easing off slightly as he realised that he was riding solo and that he wasn't going to make up any more places at that point.


A long way behind the lead group, riding solo and winning is his main race tactic


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

There was a comment by Mathieu Van Der Poel in the pre Nove Mesto press conference that sounds like it might explain what happened to him at the Albstadt round:

_Van der Poel also explained in the press conference the difficulties in switching between the two disciplines in a short period of time. He said, "It's always been a bit of an adaptation for me to switch to the mountain bike because of the different position, the steep climbs, you really have to push from the back as well, and I've had it for the past few years. I also need a couple of hard training sessions or races to get used to the position again."_ *Pinkbike*



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-says-he-may-leave-the-tour-de-france-early-to-focus-on-the-olympics.html



Something might be lost in translation but my reading of that is he had backache from the climbing efforts due to not being used to the MTB riding position? Backache would force a slowdown in speed until it eased, even if the fitness was there.

That would make more sense to me as at Milan San Remo on the Poggio climb at the end of a 190 mile road race (Strava linked a few pages back) he averaged 497 watts for 5 minutes 40 seconds at an average heart rate of 186bpm (max heart rate 196bpm) so he should still have had something in hand at Albstadt after that 4 minute 30 seconds climb so close to the start of the race.

On the second shorter climb at Albstadt he averaged 510 watts the first time up it on the start loop and then on the first full lap, immediately after the descent from the longest 4 minute 30 climb, he was down 100 watts, only averaging 410 watts which is a big drop.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't think it is back pain.

It is probably this, what he also said;

“You can train as long and hard as you want, but to get that specific feeling on a World Cup course it’s just something that comes after races”


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Not having a rabbit to chase makes the training a bit more difficult. That's why in almost all sports, you have pre-season, lesser events or whatever to fine tune your condition for your big targets. Jumping straight from the road to a WC race has got to be a shock to the system, no matter how good you are...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Last weekend heat was a significant factor. It was hot, and it was the first heat of the year. Going out hard in the heat can lead to problems.

I also suspect the MVDP is building form again. Most riders can have one or two times a year where they are really good. He was really good in March, probably will not be really good again until July. But his average form is still really freaking good.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think it is back pain.
> 
> It is probably this, what he also said;
> 
> "You can train as long and hard as you want, but to get that specific feeling on a World Cup course it's just something that comes after races"


I have the same issue. On the road bike I don't get back ache but on the MTB XCO I do. So I train more the MTB now especially when it comes to high intensity. It helps prepare my core muscles. Then there's the yoga...


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

This does raise a question for the olympics. If he's going to race the tour right before the olympics, will that mean he loses the feel before that race? My guess is not because there will be a few races this season, and he did no XCO last year, but it is an interesting question.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think it is back pain.
> 
> It is probably this, what he also said;
> 
> "You can train as long and hard as you want, but to get that specific feeling on a World Cup course it's just something that comes after races"





Brad said:


> I have the same issue. On the road bike I don't get back ache but on the MTB XCO I do. So I train more the MTB now especially when it comes to high intensity. It helps prepare my core muscles. Then there's the yoga...


I'm (obviously) not a WC anything. But, for me, there's also those first couple days back on an MTB...it is very hard...mostly in the upper body. No matter how many miles you put on a road bike, you jus can't prepare for the beating/strain that is MTB. (I assume even more so at that level).


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Congrats to Haley Batten for not only her 2nd short track victory, but riding the correct size of new school bike! lol


MVDP toying with the competition like Godzilla in muddy Tokyo, what a beast.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Both short tracks were great. The men's race was amazing! I really liked the more XCO type of course. The last couple laps were far better than the normal MVDP just ride away finish.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

wonder what happened to blevins....he was 12-13 after the first couple laps...he ended up over 2 mins back at finish.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Damn so impressed by Pidcock, without properly working gears almost outsprinting VDP who came from the draft.
Not suprised at all if he not only wins sunday, but by a huge margin .

VDP Last 2min40seconds 505w avg , and last 15seconds 1103w avg 1360w max
And that's before riding 18min avg 356w


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Just finished watching short tracks, that was super intense awesome racing!! So cool to see the emotion from Haley Batten on that win. Another American lady showing up at the pointy end of MTB XC, I love it.

Bravo Tom Pidcock! I remember our discussions here on if we would ever see him off-road again after his Ineos signing. I enjoyed the heck out of watching has Classics season (professional debut even!) this year and his foray into MTB is already a big success. Both for him and for us fans I would say. 

I agree that this was the most exciting short track course to watch as well.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Haley is such a good Canadian kid. Awesome ride by her.

The mens race was so good.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

ewarnerusa said:


> I agree that this was the most exciting short track course to watch as well.


Exciting course agreed, don't think it was 'short track' though. I think I kinda prefer when its more of a crit style event, just for some variation maybe? That was more so just a super short XCO race, without enough time for comebacks, or to make up for not having a front row start.

The stringing out in the singletrack must have been frustrating for the racers in an event where that's not really the goal?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

He reported having some mechanicals; his first three laps were fast.



jct said:


> wonder what happened to blevins....he was 12-13 after the first couple laps...he ended up over 2 mins back at finish.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

afalts said:


> Exciting course agreed, don't think it was 'short track' though. I think I kinda prefer when its more of a crit style event, just for some variation maybe? That was more so just a super short XCO race, without enough time for comebacks, or to make up for not having a front row start.
> 
> The stringing out in the singletrack must have been frustrating for the racers in an event where that's not really the goal?


Each their own I guess, but the fact it was more XCO than road crit or cross race was what I loved about it. The front 5-6 racers battling it out the entire race basically, so much better than a huge bunch until the last half a lap.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

LMN said:


> Haley is such a good Canadian kid. Awesome ride by her.
> 
> The mens race was so good.


I know you train her but I thought Haley Batten was American?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton up on the front row 

Proper cyclocross conditions and 2 top cyclocrossers up front...
MvdP without gloves again.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

That two roadies take 1st place and second really does not sit well with the XCO discipline, but hats off to them.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

scottg said:


> I know you train her but I thought Haley Batten was American?


Thought so too. Hometown Park City, Utah. Red white and blue by her name. She has Squamish BC and Quest U listed in her IG tho.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

scottg said:


> I know you train her but I thought Haley Batten was American?


I am not her coach. She works with Kristen Armstrong, Olympic TT gold medalist.

Haley goes to school in Squamish, always travels and trains with Canadians, it is an on going joke about her being Canadian.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> Haley is such a good Canadian kid. Awesome ride by her.


and it looks like you are a good Czech dad now


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Roadies? If you never knew they race cx and road, nobody could call them roadies based on bike handling skills.

I actually feel they deserve more respect than given, juggling so many disciplines and being the best in all of them...that is something else, and they truly enjoy this, which, in essence, is all there is to it.


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## savechief (Jun 8, 2004)

TDLover said:


> That two roadies take 1st place and second really does not sit well with the XCO discipline, but hats off to them.


Hope this comment was in jest. MVdP and Pidcock may ride a bit of road, but they're not roadies.









Mathieu van der Poel and Wout van Aert: A head-to-head history - CyclingTips


The finale of the weekend’s Tour of Flanders served up exactly the spectacle that road cycling fans have been anticipating for years: Mathieu van der Poel and Wout van Aert locked in head-to-head battle for one of the sport’s most prestigious wins. The two have matured into some of the most...




cyclingtips.com


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Roadies or cyclocrossers or whatever. It doesn't really matter what they are. Something that matters more is that they beat every "proper" mtbiker, like they wouldn't even exists. And I don't think it's because of track or conditions or anything else, but simply because they are so much better. So instead of complaining that "roadies beat them", it would be maybe time to start taking things slightly more serious and train some more, that some roadie wouldn't beat them this easily in their own discipline


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

TDLover said:


> That two roadies take 1st place and second really does not sit well with the XCO discipline, but hats off to them.


One roadie is u23 MTB world champ...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

primoz said:


> Roadies or cyclocrossers or whatever. It doesn't really matter what they are. Something that matters more is that they beat every "proper" mtbiker, like they wouldn't even exists. And I don't think it's because of track or conditions or anything else, but simply because they are so much better. So instead of complaining that "roadies beat them", it would be maybe time to start taking things slightly more serious and train some more, that some roadie wouldn't beat them this easily in their own discipline


Those roadies have also just come off half a season of insane racing so their fitness level SHOULD be higher.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> Roadies? If you never knew they race cx and road, nobody could call them roadies based on bike handling skills.
> 
> I actually feel they deserve more respect than given, juggling so many disciplines and being the best in all of them...that is something else, and they truly enjoy this, which, in essence, is all there is to it.


Hell yeah.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Those roadies have also just come off half a season of insane racing so their fitness level SHOULD be higher.


Honeslty, noone should care about that. It doesn't matter what you did or how you did in preparation to the race. Everyone knew race weekend is 7-9.5. and 14-16.5. Be ready for that. How to get ready is everyone own thing. Some like to race, some like to train. It's their own decision, but once race is there, only race result matters. Noone cares what you were doing to be ready.
PS: Just as disclaimer... I don't consider MvDP or Pidcock as roadies. They do race on road, and they are in top there, but I still like it better to say that mtbikers or cyclocrossers are beating the hell out of roadies on road


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

The 'roadies' comments are so tiresome; they race CX, MTB & road - they're multi discipline riders. They both have more World Titles off road, than road. For comparison, Evanepoel, Roglic and Pogacar are roadies.....these guys aren't.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I didn't see any "roadies" on top3 on Albstadt XCO ?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

chomxxo said:


> Congrats to Haley Batten for not only her 2nd short track victory, but riding the correct size of new school bike! lol
> 
> MVDP toying with the competition like Godzilla in muddy Tokyo, what a beast.


I'm not sure MvdP was toying with Tom Pidcock...he had to put out almost 1500 watts to beat him to the line per his Strava file. Tom will be a beast in XC if he can get mechanical issues behind him.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

He’s made his career out of finishes like that. Call it what you will. I think MVDP could get a little lighter by 10 pounds if he wants to do well in the TDF and Olympics, but those legs erase a lot of mistakes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> He's made his career out of finishes like that. Call it what you will. I think MVDP could get a little lighter by 10 pounds if he wants to do well in the TDF and Olympics, but those legs erase a lot of mistakes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I saw his bike profiled on pinkbike using a 115mm stem with -22 degrees of rise.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Shed weight if he wants to do well in the TDF? Why? His goal was never to be a TDF GC winner. He is there to try and win a few stages and promote the team sponsors. And by his interviews, he doesn't really like that team managed push setting. I am betting all my bikes he will abandon TDF before Paris.

I don't think he needs to shed weight for Japan, and it perhaps would even be a dangerous experiment.

Olympics will be hot as hell, a lot of guys able to win. And tomorrow should be a great spectators day.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think he needs to shed weight for Japan, and it perhaps would even be a dangerous experiment.


I think Japan is going to be all about heat management. MVP is going to have to figure out racing in extreme heat if he is going to be a factor.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Goran_injo said:


> Shed weight if he wants to do well in the TDF? Why? His goal was never to be a TDF GC winner. He is there to try and win a few stages and promote the team sponsors. And by his interviews, he doesn't really like that team managed push setting. I am betting all my bikes he will abandon TDF before Paris.
> 
> I don't think he needs to shed weight for Japan, and it perhaps would even be a dangerous experiment.
> 
> Olympics will be hot as hell, a lot of guys able to win. And tomorrow should be a great spectators day.


I used to work for an online sportsbook. They did accept bets on the TDF. If enough of us were interested they'd probably take bets on the World Cup 

If he or his sponsors wants to win some sprints like Sagan then so be it. I think MVDP has got some special talent. He truly has a chance to excel in all disciplines of cycling if he manages his career right.

Ask Bradley Wiggins about extreme weight loss (and extreme weight gain in his rowing career, but I digress). It's quite a matchup, him vs Pidcock, MVDP literally outweighs him by 50+ pounds. Muscle generates heat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> I think MVDP has got some special talent.


Is there anyone who doesn't think MvdP has special talent?



chomxxo said:


> He truly has a chance to excel in all disciplines of cycling if he manages his career right.


Road - excels
CX - excels
XC - excels

What other disciplines do you have in mind? I guess his resume still has gaps in BMX, DH, Enduro, track, and observed trials. Come to think of it, he's also missing e-MTB on his palmares. That has to bug the guy to no end.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

If we’re talking about being considered the greatest all around cyclist of all time, then a yellow jersey, or at least a green one. And he hasn’t won a medal in MTB yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I am betting all my bikes he will abandon TDF before Paris.


All the riders who are doing the tour and the Olympics will abandon.
The tour finishes on the 18th of July and the Olympics starts on the 23rd of July.
Looks like the 14 day quarantine has been dropped which will help.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Circlip said:


> Is there anyone who doesn't think MvdP has special talent?
> 
> Road - excels
> CX - excels
> ...


Track and field has the heptathlon and the decathlon. There could be a cycling heptathlon:

individual pursuit (track) 
road 3 day stage race incl time trial
MTB XCO race
MTB downhill
Dirt jump
BMX race
observed trials

I actually think that MVDP could do quite will in many of these disciplines. The dark horse could be someone like Fabio Wibmer or especially Danny MacAskill, who might be able to do just well enough in the aerobic disciplines to eke out a win.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> I think Japan is going to be all about heat management. MVP is going to have to figure out racing in extreme heat if he is going to be a factor.


2019 Val di sole was pretty hot, as far as i remember being a spectator there, and he had no problems there


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The topic of pre-race discussion today is tires; Mud, Intermediate, or Dry. Most people spend so little time on mud-tires that they are very hesitant to throw them on. And some of the climbs are so bad that you are probably running them anyways.

Carter Woods, who won the U23 race yesterday by a lot, used dry tire and just did a lot of running. 

It will be interesting to see what people choose in the end.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> 2019 Val di sole was pretty hot, as far as i remember being a spectator there, and he had no problems there


It was nothing compared to how bad Tokyo is suppose to be. Europe just doesn't get those kind of temperatures and humidity. Tokyo is so hot that probably some heat chamber training is required to prepare for it properly.

Really it will come down to how hot July is. If it is cold Tour he could have problems but if it is a hot one, he might be all right.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Spain gets that hot.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Spain gets that hot.


Never been there in the summer.

But Tokyo is suppose to be worse than you guys get in Summer. It has been a major concern. Every nation has flagged it as the number one environment concern.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Call me crazy but I prefer to race in temps of 25-30* C with humidity. Warmups happen easily and the muscles don't feel tight. It's like a hug from the air  Tokyo looks like it'll get hot and humid which for those unaccustomed, I'm sure it'll be daunting. I'll be hitting high altitude for Nationals which will definitely be, for me, I'll spend a week to acclimate.

Have some friends in Spain, it gets scorching hot, humid, and there's even some opportunities for altitude.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> If we're talking about being considered the greatest all around cyclist of all time, then a yellow jersey, or at least a green one. And he hasn't won a medal in MTB yet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


he's 26 years old..a long way from being considered GOAT.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Never been there in the summer.
> 
> But Tokyo is suppose to be worse than you guys get in Summer. It has been a major concern. Every nation has flagged it as the number one environment concern.


It's not the heat, it's the humidity... Europe does not get the humidity Japan does.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Believe the hype! Pidcock is fucking unreal, just wow!

One of the most dominant performance i have seen in XCO, have there been bigger winning margin before ?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

suspiciously dominant


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Absalon won also by a minute in 2016 La bresse, but in 2014 world champs he won by a 1min51sec wow - Results | XCO World Championships '14 at Hafjell Bike Park


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## RSM (Dec 4, 2015)

Pidcock just left MVDP for dead. What about women´s race? Lecomte utterly dominant from start to finish, what a talent.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Actually for certain sports like XCO, it’s now or never at age 26. As we’ve seen, Nino has clearly lost a step by his 35th birthday and now that GOAT of mountain biking looks so close but so far away.

Very impressive watts/kg from the pint-sized Pidcock. I mean, he weighs only 110 pounds, that's less than a lot of the female pros. It was pretty much one attack that set him up and the perfect terrain for a light rider to run away with it. MVDP did recover about 30 seconds late in the race. 

Clearly the Olympics will be a sprinter vs. a climber, which is pretty exciting. Now about those 10 extra pounds on MVDP...


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Brad said:


> suspiciously dominant


Hahaha, this is what happens when you take a true world class engine and put it in a guy that can drive a bike. 
He's only 21 and this is his palmares.

*Cyclo-cross[edit]*
2015-2016Junior National Trophy Series1st Derby1st Durham1st Ipswich1st BradfordUCI Junior World Cup2nd Grand Prix Adri van der Poel5th UCI World Junior Championships8th UEC European Junior Championships2016-20171st  UCI World Junior Championships1st  UEC European Junior Championships1st  National Junior Championships1st Junior Grand Prix van Hasselt3rd Overall UCI Junior World Cup1st Cyclo-cross Namur1st Grand Prix Adri van der Poel3rd Poldercross ZevenJunior Superprestige1st Cyclo-cross ZonhovenJunior DVV Trophy1st FlandriencrossJunior Brico Cross1st Vestingcross1st PolderscrossJunior National Trophy Series1st Derby1st Houghton-Le-Spring2017-20181st  National Under-23 Championships1st  Overall UCI Under-23 World Cup1st Duinencross Koksijde1st CrossDenmark1st Cyclo-cross Namur1st Grand Prix Erik De Vlaeminck2nd Grand Prix Adri van der PoelUnder-23 Superprestige1st Cyclo-cross Boom1st Cyclo-cross Gavere1st Superprestige Diegem1st NoordzeecrossUnder-23 DVV Trophy1st Koppenbergcross2nd Azencross3rd Grand Prix Sven NysNational Trophy Series1st Abergavenny2nd  UEC European Under-23 Championships2018-20191st  National Championships1st  UCI World Under-23 Championships1st  UEC European Under-23 Championships1st  Overall UCI Under-23 World Cup1st Cyklokros Tábor1st Duinencross Koksijde1st Cyclo-cross Namur1st Cyclo-cross Pont-ChâteauUnder-23 DVV Trophy1st KrawatencrossSuperprestige1st Under-23 classification2nd Kasteelcross ZonnebekeBrico Cross3rd Vestingcross2019-20201st  National Championships2nd  UCI World ChampionshipsDVV Trophy2nd Koppenbergcross3rd Grand Prix Sven NysEthias Cross2nd Vestingcross3rd Cyclo-cross Beringen3rd Grand Prix Rouwmoer2nd Kermiscross2nd Vlaamse Druivenveldrit OverijseSuperprestige1st Under-23 classification3rd Cyclo-cross BoomRectavit Series3rd Waaslandcross2020-2021Superprestige1st Cyclo-cross Gavere2nd Cyclo-cross GullegemUCI World Cup3rd Cyclo-cross Namur3rd Vestingcross3rd Vlaamse Druivenveldrit OverijseX²O Badkamers Trophy3rd Scheldecross Antwerpen3rd Grand Prix Sven NysEthias Cross3rd Grand Prix Rouwmoer
*Road[edit]*
20161st La Philippe Gilbert JuniorsJunior Tour of Wales1st Stages 3 & 510th Overall Trofeo Karlsberg20171st  Time trial, UCI Junior Road World Championships1st  Overall Junior Tour of Wales1st Stages 1 (ITT) & 51st  Overall Grand Prix Rüebliland1st  Points classification1st Stage 3 (ITT)1st Paris-Roubaix Juniors2nd Overall Aubel-Thimister-La Gleize1st Stage 2a (TTT)2nd Road race, National Junior Road Championships4th Overall SPIE Internationale Juniorendriedaagse5th Guido Reybrouck Classic20181st East Cleveland-Klondike GP3rd Time trial, National Under-23 Road Championships6th Heistse Pijl9th Rutland-Melton CiCLE Classic20191st  Overall Tour Alsace1st  Young rider classification1st Stage 21st Paris-Roubaix Espoirs3rd Overall Le Triptyque des Monts et Châteaux1st  Points classification1st Stage 2b3rd  Road race, UCI Road World Under-23 Championships5th Rutland-Melton CiCLE Classic9th Overall Paris-Arras Tour20201st  Overall Giro Ciclistico d'Italia1st  Mountains classification1st Stages 4, 7 & 84th Time trial, UEC European Under-23 Road Championships20211st Brabantse Pijl2nd Amstel Gold Race3rd Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne5th Strade Bianche6th La Flèche Wallonne


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Believe the hype! Pidcock is fucking unreal, just wow!


In 2 short weeks he has blown up any concept of hype. He's as real as it gets in terms of ability.



Raikzz said:


> One of the most dominant performance i have seen in XCO, have there been bigger winning margin before ?


Yes, many times before and as recently as the last couple of years, but according to a graphic shown in the Redbull post-race show only a few times in the past decade or so and that context of the modern competitive environment has to be taken into account. It was a definitive demonstration of superiority on this day.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

He rides for a team that over the past 10 years has taken donkeys and created race horses. It stinks to hell. I can't prove but I think he's as dirty as the rest of that team.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> He rides for a team that over the past 10 years has taken donkeys and created race horses. It stinks to hell. I can't prove but I think he's as dirty as the rest of that team.


**** off


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tell me how you really feel


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Is Pidcock really just 50 kilos? Wow, if true.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

What bike was Pidcock riding, anyone know?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Brad said:


> He rides for a team that over the past 10 years has taken donkeys and created race horses. It stinks to hell. I can't prove but I think he's as dirty as the rest of that team.


He's rode for INEOS for 5 months. How do you explain his Multiple world Titles on the road and cyclocross as a junior, Junior Paris Roubaix etc? It's like you have no understanding of bike racing outside of a few World Cup mtb races?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

MattMay said:


> What bike was Pidcock riding, anyone know?


BMC with Syncros carbon wheels.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

scottg said:


> Is Pidcock really just 50 kilos? Wow, if true.


According to his stats yes indeed.









Tom Pidcock - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Now him in the TDF GC? Perhaps he will lead a team one day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

scottg said:


> Is Pidcock really just 50 kilos? Wow, if true.


Per usual the red bull commentary is off. I have heard 68-60kg mentioned numerous times this year for Tom


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

This site says 58 kg - that sounds like the most realistic to me.




__





Thomas Pidcock


Thomas Pidcock (born 1999-07-30) is a professional road racing cyclist from Great Britain, currently riding for INEOS Grenadiers.




www.procyclingstats.com


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Please for the love of God, do not quote the commentary team on rider weight. They literally do not know what the F they are talking about. Rob was reading Wikipedia for crying out loud.

Tom Pidcock has been very clear about his weight. He ranges between 57-59kg. 50kg, that is ridiculous and totally inaccurate. It's amusing people actually believed it...

The Pidcock doping allegations. Please just go away and crawl back under your rock. You don't know him, you certainly do not know if he has ever cheated. To make such baseless accusations is totally disgusting.

He's a young man, and has been winning continually since he was VERY young. Unless he began doping at 12, nothing has changed. He's been an incredible talent since he started riding a bike.

Those who doubt him, just do not follow other disciplines and age group results. Anybody with any cycling talent scouting ability has had Pidcock on the ABSOLUTE top of their lists for years.

The MTB audience just doesn't know him, they know him now!

He grew up riding MTB at home, he rides a lot of MTB when at home. Obviously, his bike handling skills are next level. It's certainly, not by accident.

Another interesting bit of info on Pidcock is that is absolute best performances are achieved on shallow long steady climbs. Not what many expect, given his size/weight. These are his own words.

So, it's possible when we see him in the Tour de France next year, he'll be a legit GC contender.

We'll have Pidcock, Remco, Pogacar, Roglic and Bernal all fighting for glory. That list is madness.

All we need now is for Bernal to dust off his XC bike and get into some MTB action. He's also a great MTB rider.

I'll go out on a limb here and say, by metrics alone, Pidcock could be the most talented XC racer of all time.

Will that equate to all time wins etc?

Probably not, as he's said he enjoys cross discipline.

What a time to be a cycling fan.

Oh, and this MVDP GC Tour talk. Please please just drop it. That is NEVER happening. He is too heavy at (75kg), he cannot put out 6.7+ w/kg for 40mins and never will. He's not interested in even attempting it. Enjoy him for the rider he is. He's an incredible classics man, the cyclocross world champion, a fantastic MTBr, he could probably win the green jersey if he focused on it... is that not enough?


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

primoz said:


> Roadies or cyclocrossers or whatever. It doesn't really matter what they are. Something that matters more is that they beat every "proper" mtbiker, like they wouldn't even exists. And I don't think it's because of track or conditions or anything else, but simply because they are so much better. So instead of complaining that "roadies beat them", it would be maybe time to start taking things slightly more serious and train some more, that some roadie wouldn't beat them this easily in their own discipline


Well, since the best roadies make literally 10x+ what the best xc mtb riders make, perhaps the biggest talents follow the money, and talent plus training is what wins races.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I was happy to see Beck on the podium again...and ahead of Pauline


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Ketzal said:


> Tom Pidcock has been very clear about his weight. He ranges between 57-59kg. 50kg, that is ridiculous and totally inaccurate. It's amusing people actually believed it...


What did he say his 5km run time was again? 

During lockdown didn't he hold 150rpm for 10km on rollers?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> What did he say his 5km run time was again?











5k PB 13.25 - Tom P.'s 9.3 km run


Tom P. ran 9.3 km on Dec 18, 2020.




www.strava.com


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Very nice ride from Pidcock. Such fluidity, almost seemed effortless in his movements on the bike while others labored the technical parts at exhaustion point.
And to do this at Nove Mesto, supposedly not a course for light riders.

And hats of to Vlad for the effort and making things right for Japan despite the technical issues and a crash, I think UK needs to issue a thank you letter.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

In my opinion, Nino did not recover as well from the Albstat race as the younger racers. At 35 years old he's not supposed to recover as fast as a 21 or 26 year old. I think he came out guns blazing for the first race of the season because he wants to equal Julien's all time WC win record and at his age, back to back race weekends are a big ask. He can still peak for a one race weekend though so I still wouldn't write him off for another big peak at the Olympic Games.


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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

LMN said:


> It will be interesting to see what people choose in the end.


Is there a list or website with what did people choose?

At mens race start there were some with big "Fast Trak" letters on the side, but thread looked too nobby for fast trak - some experimental new tires?

Found closeup: https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb20628882/p6pb20628882.jpg
And it has softer T7 compound!
.. take my money  but it's not probably available to general public.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Per usual the red bull commentary is off. I have heard 68-60kg mentioned numerous times this year for Tom


 No way is is in the 60's (kg). I'm 177.5 cm 63.5lkg and am about as skinny as Pidcock and way taller. 56-57kg seems about right.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Lecomte is so fun to watch.

I've been rooting for Courtney and Neff, but Lecomte is so dominating.


The way she climb, pedal, turn , etc... the way she ride bikes overall is so perfect in my eyes. Again, Im not an expert.. but watching her seem like xc biking is easy. Lolz

No offense to Evie Richards, but I don't like the way she rides the bike. Just me.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Kirsa said:


> Is there a list or website with what did people choose?
> 
> At mens race start there were some with big "Fast Trak" letters on the side, but thread looked too nobby for fast trak - some experimental new tires?
> 
> ...


I haven't seen a full list anywhere.

Tom Pidcock was using Continental X-King tyres.

Victor Koretzky was using some as yet unreleased green Michelin tyres.

Loana Lecomte was using Massi Rader Pro tyres. You can make out the name on the tyre here:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CO5fxahH3OE/


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Mathieu Van Der Poel or Tom Pidcock to win the men's race.
> 
> Loana Lecomte won the Elite Women's race at Nove Mesto in 2020 and coming off the win at Albstadt I think she will win Nove Mesto this year too.


I called both results right for once! heh. 

Red Bull Replay links:

Women's race Nove Mesto 16 May 2021
Women's XCO final - Nové Město

Men's race Nove Mesto 16 May 2021








Men's XCO final – Nové Město


Watch the men battle it out in the cross-country final at Nové Město na Moravě.




www.redbull.com





Full results from Pinkbike:


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-nove-mesto-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Photos from Pinkbike:


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-chocolate-pudding-nove-mesto-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Tom Pidcock's win wasn't a surprise at all. He made up a huge gap last week at Albstadt over the first few laps to the leaders. The difference at Nove Mesto was that rather than having to put in an effort catching up to the leaders he could use that same effort to open a gap instead.

I haven't seen a detailed split but from the Red Bull replay it looked like he was making up a big chunk of that time gained on the downhills and roots compared to Mathieu Van Der Poel, not just on the climbs. Mathieu Van Der Poel was off the bike running the Shimano Expert Climb but as soon as Tom Pidcock had a clear run out by himself he was riding up it without putting a foot down each lap.

In contrast Mathias Fluckiger, who is normally very good technically, was notably hopping off the bike and running at points that others were riding on the first few laps. Down to tire choice and lack of grip or a deliberate tactic? I wasn't completely sure.

Loana Lecomte is awesome. She simply rode away from the field from the beginning again, super strong uphill and technically one of the best too from the way she was handling those wet roots. The winning margin was 1 minute 39 seconds (compared to the 1 minute winning margin in the men's race) so her win was even more convincing than Tom Pidcock's! Her fastest lap was 23 seconds faster than anyone else!

I think this is just the start of several years where she's going to be winning everything now. She's that good.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CO5fxahH3OE/

Loana Lecomte winning at Nove Mesto 2021:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I was really impressed by how fast Brad Copeland (the Scott Sram team mechanic) repaired Kate Courtney’s bike too. After she had crashed and broken the rear brake lever off the bars I thought that was it, she was out of the race for good.

To see the speed with which Brad Copeland whipped the entire brake lever off the bars, disconnected the hydraulic brake hose and fitted a fresh brake lever left me staring in disbelief! I was still saying she had no chance of continuing whilst the pictures showed her jumping back on the bike and sprinting away!


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

WR304 said:


> I was really impressed by how fast Brad Copeland (the Scott Sram team mechanic) repaired Kate Courtney's bike too. After she had crashed and broken the rear brake lever off the bars I thought that was it, she was out of the race for good.
> 
> To see the speed with which Brad Copeland whipped the entire brake lever off the bars, disconnected the hydraulic brake hose and fitted a fresh brake lever left me staring in disbelief! I was still saying she had no chance of continuing whilst the pictures showed her jumping back on the bike and sprinting away!


He got help from other team's mechanic. You can see it on Copeland's instagram and he thank him for it.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mik_git said:


> 5k PB 13.25 - Tom P.'s 9.3 km run
> 
> 
> Tom P. ran 9.3 km on Dec 18, 2020.
> ...


I'm guessing he can't actually run within 90 seconds of that time. If anyone here is a former, pretty fast runner, you can tell that his pace is not 65s/400m pace by watching the video:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CK_sBxyJV8t/


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I guess the thing is, is he going...ohhh I'm fast...or oooh...strava your silly, look how fast I apparently am...


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

WR304 said:


> I was really impressed by how fast Brad Copeland (the Scott Sram team mechanic) repaired Kate Courtney's bike too. After she had crashed and broken the rear brake lever off the bars I thought that was it, she was out of the race for good.
> 
> To see the speed with which Brad Copeland whipped the entire brake lever off the bars, disconnected the hydraulic brake hose and fitted a fresh brake lever left me staring in disbelief! I was still saying she had no chance of continuing whilst the pictures showed her jumping back on the bike and sprinting away!


I thought she was done too. I'd think that you would need to bleed the brakes when installing a new lever. Apparently he has pre-bled levers with him. Crazy...they really do think of every situation.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

mik_git said:


> I guess the thing is, is he going...ohhh I'm fast...or oooh...strava your silly, look how fast I apparently am...


It's funny that the time he purportedly ran just so happens to be the Olympic qualifying standard for Tokyo. In flats and a jacket.

He's a world class athlete, no doubt. And perhaps such a firm belief in his own ability is part of what makes him so good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> I thought she was done too. I'd think that you would need to bleed the brakes when installing a new lever. Apparently he has pre-bled levers with him. Crazy...they really do think of every situation.


He had a working brake system in his spares box, both front and rear so if they develop a problem with a brake they can replace it and keep the rider out practising the course while the disfunctional system is repaired. They also have a couple of spare AXS dérailleurs and dropper post in the spares box. No cables makes those parts quick and easy to replace even in a race


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Tom Pidcok has a BMC Fourstroke and we all know that. But take a look at this...








Pidcock podría estar probando un nuevo sistema de suspensión inteligente en su BMC


La BMC Fourstroke con la que Pidcock compitió en el Short Track no montaba las mismas suspensiones que en la prueba XCO




www.brujulabike.com












SPY SHOTS: STRANI FILI SULLA BICI DI PIDCOCK


Alla fine della gara XCC a Nové Mesto na Morave stavamo fotografando da molto vicino la MTB "no brand" del secondo classificato, cercando di cog




www.pianetamountainbike.it





Interesting, isn't it?


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Interesting for sure! Would love an electric lock out like that!

I remember Tom mentioning in I think the short track post race interview that he had to swap bikes right before the race because he broke his suspension. So he must have at least 2 FS bikes built up...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

TwincamRob said:


> Interesting for sure! Would love an electric lock out like that!
> 
> I remember Tom mentioning in I think the short track post race interview that he had to swap bikes right before the race because he broke his suspension. So he must have at least 2 FS bikes built up...


Well, they have the budget to buy almost anything they want...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

gat3keeper said:


> No offense to Evie Richards, but I don't like the way she rides the bike. Just me.


I love Evie...her positivity and "funness" is infectious. More people should be like her. That being said, she does kinda look like she's beating the bike into submission. Not the smoothest.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

smartyiak said:


> I love Evie...her positivity and "funness" is infectious. More people should be like her. That being said, she does kinda look like she's beating the bike into submission. Not the smoothest.


I've been lucky enough to attend Jingle Cross and Trek Cup for years (CX world cups) and I personally think it's great how aggressive she is with her position and on the bike.

Also, I'm happy for her, she had such a good race last weekend. She goes all out at the start which is perfect for short course, but in XCO races and CX world cups she historically fades about half way through the race. If she can keep working on her endurance and pacing she's going to have a ton of success!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

smartyiak said:


> I love Evie...her positivity and "funness" is infectious. More people should be like her. That being said, she does kinda look like she's beating the bike into submission. Not the smoothest.


I think she's probably the most positive person in all cycling....she just seems the nicest person and loves being out there. As for the racing - she just leaves it all out on the track....


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The source cited for Wikipedia's Tom Pidcock stats was a 2020 Cyclingweekly article. Sure it could be a typo too, but I think some of us are presuming too much to judge one way or another. 








Tom Pidcock: Battling on three fronts


Tom Pidcock talks to James Shrubsall about forging his own path




www.cyclingweekly.com





Nonetheless, young Mr. Pidcock at 50-59kg has got some world-class watts/kg and could be the next Contador, if MVDP is the next Sagan. As I've said before, I think MVDP has more potential than Sagan does as an all-rounder. A lot of body type at the pro level depends upon what you focus on--it's not a number set in stone. Athletes have put on muscle or lost weight depending upon what they need to do.

Regardless, it will be quite exciting to see a sprinter vs a climber in the Olympics, and they both care about and respect mountain biking highly, which is very cool, great PR.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'd say MvdP is already a better 'all rounder' than Sagan. Sagan has never won Elite level World Cups in XCO or CX. Since moving to the road, he had the brief flirtation with MTB in the spring/summer of 2016 - and had no real results of note. Despite his off road background, he's a road racer.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> I haven't seen a detailed split but from the Red Bull replay it looked like he was making up a big chunk of that time gained on the downhills and roots compared to Mathieu Van Der Poel, not just on the climbs. Mathieu Van Der Poel was off the bike running the Shimano Expert Climb but as soon as Tom Pidcock had a clear run out by himself he was riding up it without putting a foot down each lap.


Both rides are on Strava so it's possible to do a comparison. 










The attached table is for full Lap 4 (the race was 1 start loop + 6 full laps). Tom Pidcock attacked mid way through Lap 3 and Lap 4 is where both riders were riding solo and choosing their own lines. This was the lap he opened up the majority of his gap to Mathieu Van Der Poel. According to Strava for Lap 4 Tom Pidcock gained roughly 2 seconds on the flat sections, 32 seconds on the climbs and 19 seconds on the descents so he was quite a bit quicker than Mathieu Van Der Poel on the descents.

When comparing times on Strava, particularly offroad in woodland the GPS track and timings aren't always exact. Strava segments can overlap or miss out parts of a course too. I got the lap time comparison to about 10 seconds difference from the full Strava segment so it doesn't quite match up perfectly. 

The most difficult bit is the Pump Track section at the end of the lap. There isn't a Strava segment covering it so I had to read that off the analysis tab. I also couldn't decide what to class it as. I've gone with descent as it is still downhill and doesn't really count as a flat start finish straight section.

With a Strava "Pro" account you have the option to make the activity public but with power and heart rate data hidden, which is how Tom Pidcock's file is shown.

Mathieu Van Der Poel looks to have paused his Wahoo Elemnt Bolt midride by mistake which is why his distance and time is so much less than Tom Pidcock's! He did notice and restart the recording but there is a chunk of the first full lap missing from his Strava file.

Tom Pidcock Nove Mesto Strava 16 May 2021








Nove mesto 🥇 - Tom P.'s 24.2 km bike ride


Tom P. rode 24.2 km on May 16, 2021.




www.strava.com





Mathieu Van Der Poel Nove Mesto Strava 16 May 2021








XCO Nove Mesto 🥈 - Mathieu V.'s 21.9 km bike ride


Mathieu V. rode 21.9 km on May 16, 2021.




www.strava.com


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Point taken on the descents, I won't argue that Pidcock perhaps was faster downhill, but also agree that Strava is... let's just call it inadmissable in court  I've mentioned how unreliable that Strava is before, tragicomic that people get so dramatic over a few seconds when it's totally not that accurate.

I currently hold the KOM for a race lap in which I got second place earlier this spring. Both of our rides are public.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Tom Pidcok has a BMC Fourstroke and we all know that. But take a look at this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I wonder if this mean Pinarrello will be coming out with a mtb... seems a waste to do all this and then not make a bike ( I cant see them just doing suspension stuff..unless Suntour are really wanting to go in big)...and also the reason maybe why Pidcock is "allowed" to do mtb stuff.

Who knows, just ponderings


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> I'm guessing he can't actually run within 90 seconds of that time. If anyone here is a former, pretty fast runner, you can tell that his pace is not 65s/400m pace by watching the video:


I think his Strava run is flagged with reason  If that would be true, he would be less then 50sec off the 5k World record. 5k WR is set on track, with few pacer runners etc. He was running around some school yard on wet asphalt (based on video), in normally running shoes and with wind jacket on... and on top of that, he made 10k instead of just 5. So on track and with ideal conditions he's easily way under world record.Also if you look that strava run, he has several few 100m sections, where he was running 1:30/km, which is 40km/h. Bolt would have issues with this speed during his 200m World record run (his average was 37.5km/h on those 200m). So yes, that run is flagged with very good reason and have nothing to do with running capabilities 
And yes, that pace in Instagram video is anything but 2:40/km, but in very very best case something like 4:00-4:30/km, which pretty far from "almost WR pace"


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Point taken on the descents, I won't argue that Pidcock perhaps was faster downhill, but also agree that Strava is... let's just call it inadmissable in court  I've mentioned how unreliable that Strava is before, tragicomic that people get so dramatic over a few seconds when it's totally not that accurate.
> 
> I currently hold the KOM for a race lap in which I got second place earlier this spring. Both of our rides are public.


On the live coverage on redbull you can do a rider comparison by sector (they have many timing loops on course). Pidcock was descending really fast, according to their data.

After watching him ride a couple of weeks ago I though he was slightly off technically, but it turns out he was just rusty. The guy is *really* good on a mountain bike. I walked the course the day after the race, and the conditions they raced in are as hard as I have seen on any race course period. The camera do not grab how many massive, slippery roots there are.

I don't agree with your assessment of climber versus sprinter. I think Piddcock was actually sprinting better than MVDP at the end of the road season and MVDP was out climbing Piddcock early in the road season. I think Piddcock is better at long climbs (10 minutes or more) and MVDP is better on the flat. But as riders they are actually very similar in abilities, which is pretty cool considering how different their builds are.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mik_git said:


> So I wonder if this mean Pinarello will be coming out with a mtb... seems a waste to do all this and then not make a bike ( I cant see them just doing suspension stuff..unless Suntour are really wanting to go in big)...and also the reason maybe why Pidcock is "allowed" to do mtb stuff.
> 
> Who knows, just ponderings


Would be good to see them think about it. There is a similar precedent - Cervelo don't have a CX bike, but a Gravel bike, the Aspero. The season before last, Joris Nieuwenhuis used it, with an amended BB. However this season he didn't - and the Jumbo Visma CX riders stayed with the Bianchi Zolder (unbranded from 1st Jan) as the Aspero simply wasn't suitable.
However, Cervelo are working on a new CX bike.....

Manufacturers are in racing to sell more products (like in motorsport). Pinarello are missing out on positive publicity as it's not their bike - and BMC are as well; they're not a team sponsor.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> I don't agree with your assessment of climber versus sprinter. I think Pidcock was actually sprinting better than MVDP at the end of the road season and MVDP was out climbing Pidcock early in the road season. I think Pidcock is better at long climbs (10 minutes or more) and MVDP is better on the flat. But as riders they are actually very similar in abilities, which is pretty cool considering how different their builds are.


MvdP can do many things on a bike - however, he simply can't do long climbs - he's a 'big unit' (about 6ft, and 75kg). The short punchy climbs are we he excels, were he can 'explode' up them. It's always amused me when people have wondered whether he can challenge in a Grand Tour. He can't and he won't. Pidcock very likely can, and will - in time.

For all that, MvdP still beat everybody else - just as he did in Nove Mesto in 2019; when I'm sure Pidcock hadn't even raced a competitive XC event.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> For all that, MvdP still beat everybody else - just as he did in Nove Mesto in 2019; when I'm sure Pidcock hadn't even raced a competitive XC event.


Pidcock was 2019 U23 XCO overall World Cup winner and World Champion.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Only in cycling would 75kg be considered hefty. Let's recall that Kulhavy dominated on the Nove Mesto course 2 years in a row; he was taller and heavier than Van Der Poel and claimed to dislike steep climbs. But I also see no reason that MVDP couldn't slim down a little.

He also needs a better bike position. Perhaps he could consult with Doddy on how to set up his Lux


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

mik_git said:


> So I wonder if this mean Pinarrello will be coming out with a mtb... seems a waste to do all this and then not make a bike ( I cant see them just doing suspension stuff..unless Suntour are really wanting to go in big)...and also the reason maybe why Pidcock is "allowed" to do mtb stuff.
> 
> Who knows, just ponderings


This technology from Pinarello is a couple os years old as they used it in cobbled classics a few seasons back. Maybe SR Suntour is looking to develop something a la Fox Live Valve.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Also I saw a picture in which Jordan Sarrou, doing a whip, was in his Epic with a few attachments on his fork and on the down tube. They looked like sensors of some kind. Picture was taken down.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

smartyiak said:


> I love Evie...her positivity and "funness" is infectious. More people should be like her. That being said, she does kinda look like she's beating the bike into submission. Not the smoothest.


Totally. She is not a pretty pedaler at all. I always wonder how much energy is wasted when pedaling like that. A lot of upper body movement, etc. 
She does seem like a fun person and enjoys what she's doing. for sure.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

bikeguy0 said:


> Totally. She is not a pretty pedaler at all. I always wonder how much energy is wasted when pedaling like that. A lot of upper body movement, etc.


Probably some, but probably less, then when she would try to ride "properly". My background is from different sport, where technique plays even bigger role, and there's 1000s of studies, and few 1000s more of scientists preaching what proper technique is, yet not a single World champion or Olympic winner has technique anywhere near "proper" one. You ski (in my case) or cycle in this case the way that fits best for you. It might not be optimal for researchers, but it's optimal for you and your body. 
PS: One that really looks ugly on bike for me is Alessandra Keller. Her style is really something for me, but I'm pretty sure every single coach she ever had told her to ride differently but considering she still rides like that, and she's not all that bad, I would say that's style that fits her best and brings her best results. And on the end, that's only thing that matter. Stopwatch is the thing in mtb, and luckily there's no judges to give points for perfect technique.


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

Pinarello made Dogma XC bikes in the 2013/14 time frame. I never actually saw one in the wild though or being raced.















Bike Rumor did an article on the hard tale.








2013 Pinarello Dogma XC 29er Mountain Bike Photo'd & Weighed


The new Dogma XC 29e hardtail leaked out from one of their distributors a bit ago, then it got official, and now we’ve got some detail pics. It’s officially wild looking. The downtube and chainstays are massive, and the frame makes full use of their asymmetric thinking. The seatstays are...




bikerumor.com


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

NordieBoy said:


> Pidcock was 2019 U23 XCO overall World Cup winner and World Champion.


No - that was last year - 2020....He was British U23 XCO Champion in June 2019; his only XCO race of the year.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

chase2wheels said:


> Pinarello made Dogma XC bikes in the 2013/14 time frame. I never actually saw one in the wild though or being raced.
> View attachment 1931213
> View attachment 1931214
> 
> ...


those bikes were atrocious. It was amazing how bad they were. Flexy, really poor handling and traction.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> No - that was last year - 2020....He was British U23 XCO Champion in June 2019; his only XCO race of the year.


Damn, of course it was.
He also won the eMTB worlds in 2020.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> He had a working brake system in his spares box, both front and rear so if they develop a problem with a brake they can replace it and keep the rider out practising the course while the disfunctional system is repaired. They also have a couple of spare AXS dérailleurs and dropper post in the spares box. No cables makes those parts quick and easy to replace even in a race











Brad Copeland on Instagram: "Hydraulic hot-swap with @kateplusfate feat. @gavinblack22 of @rnracingteam (Thanks brü! Huge help— I owe you a beer or three 🍻). Can’t say I’ve ever tried this one in the tech zone before but happy to see @kateplusfate charging back once we got her sorted out after a pretty brutal crash today. Thanks @brujulabike for being there to document all the drama! #teamwork #muddybuddy @scottmtbracing"


Brad Copeland shared a post on Instagram: "Hydraulic hot-swap with @kateplusfate feat. @gavinblack22 of @rnracingteam (Thanks brü! Huge help— I owe you a beer or three 🍻). Can’t say I’ve ever tried this one in the tech zone before but happy to see @kateplusfate charging back once we got her...




www.instagram.com





Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Brad Copeland on Instagram: "Hydraulic hot-swap with @kateplusfate feat. @gavinblack22 of @rnracingteam (Thanks brü! Huge help— I owe you a beer or three 🍻). Can’t say I’ve ever tried this one in the tech zone before but happy to see @kateplusfate charging back once we got her sorted out after a pretty brutal crash today. Thanks @brujulabike for being there to document all the drama! #teamwork #muddybuddy @scottmtbracing"
> 
> 
> Brad Copeland shared a post on Instagram: "Hydraulic hot-swap with @kateplusfate feat. @gavinblack22 of @rnracingteam (Thanks brü! Huge help— I owe you a beer or three 🍻). Can’t say I’ve ever tried this one in the tech zone before but happy to see @kateplusfate charging back once we got her...
> ...


Yes I see that. As I said he had a working system in the spares box. He scavenged the brake lever and master cyclinder from that system and fitted to the bike. Its pretty obvious he didn't fit an entire brake system LOL


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Good interview and explanation here from Brad:









Kate Courtney's Mechanic, Brad Copeland, Tells of Managing 3 Mechanicals in 2 World Cup XCO Races


World Cup mechanic Brad Copeland found himself making repairs under intense pressure at the last two races. He says "the good news is that most of the time we don't have stuff like this happen."




www.singletracks.com


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Also I saw a picture in which Jordan Sarrou, doing a whip, was in his Epic with a few attachments on his fork and on the down tube. They looked like sensors of some kind. Picture was taken down.


If you fast forwards to about 5 minutes into this Specialized Factory Racing early season build up video you can see the data logging system they use for testing suspension settings. It will be that I'd have thought:


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

WR304 said:


> If you fast forwards to about 5 minutes into this Specialized Factory Racing early season build up video you can see the data logging system they use for testing suspension settings. It will be that I'd have thought:


Correct! That's the one!!!


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

The Swiss MTB selection for the Olympics


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397846016817250308


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Swiss Cycling could have done better with the photos. Jolanda looks like a psycho killer in this photo.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Swiss Cycling could have done better with the photos. Jolanda looks like a psycho killer in this photo.


How do you know that Jolanda isn't a pyscho killer???


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Kate with a broken arm from the crash at Nove Mesto, that low speed crash was so strange, lucky for her its a minor fracture so she might still be up for olympics.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Circlip said:


> How do you know that Jolanda isn't a pyscho killer???


I don't, but in this age of social media and fan accessibility, I've seen a lot of Jolanda and she seems like a genuinely nice person. If not, she's really good at managing her public persona.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

paramount3 said:


> I don't, but in this age of social media and fan accessibility, I've seen a lot of Jolanda and she seems like a genuinely nice person. If not, she's really good at managing her public persona.


I live in a town that hosts a race of the Swiss Cup each year (not this year because of the pandemic unfortunately ).
One of the young rider of our club (she was maybe 11 years old at that time) was getting ready to train on the track, and realized that Jolanda had just parked her car next to them. She asked Jolanda if she would like to ride a round with her and... they went together. Our junior had the time of her life! 🤩

Some other athletes that I've found super cool and super available: Ralph Näf, Julien Absalon, Nino Schurter


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

bananajoe said:


> Some other athletes that I've found super cool and super available: Ralph Näf, Julien Absalon, Nino Schurter


Most of top athletes from sports that I'm around (all sorts of skiing, cycling, mtb, climbing...) are. Actually I would dare to say that all of top athletes not just most of them are. Those ranked on places 30, 40 or lower are pretending to be huge stars, because they race World cup races, and that's so much more then normal people, but top stars are actually super nice and have no issues. Ok I'm not talking now about football or basketball players earning few millions a week, but I have no real experience with them anyway.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

primoz said:


> Most of top athletes from sports that I'm around (all sorts of skiing, cycling, mtb, climbing...) are. Actually I would dare to say that all of top athletes not just most of them are. Those ranked on places 30, 40 or lower are pretending to be huge stars, because they race World cup races, and that's so much more then normal people, but top stars are actually super nice and have no issues. Ok I'm not talking now about football or basketball players earning few millions a week, but I have no real experience with them anyway.


Georgia Gould is one of the nicest people I've ever met, so I agree at least on the cycling side (though I tend to know the MTB folks more than roadie side). First time I ever had met her, she immediately asked how my race the day before went, as we were facebook friends (mind you she had like 2000 friends on there). I was shocked she even recognized my name, let alone knew I raced the day before.

That is the cool thing about mountain biking is amateurs are often racing alongside the pros, or at least on the same day, so the "big stars" are really accessible.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

sooshee said:


> Georgia Gould is one of the nicest people I've ever met, so I agree at least on the cycling side (though I tend to know the MTB folks more than roadie side). First time I ever had met her, she immediately asked how my race the day before went, as we were facebook friends (mind you she had like 2000 friends on there). I was shocked she even recognized my name, let alone knew I raced the day before.
> 
> That is the cool thing about mountain biking is amateurs are often racing alongside the pros, or at least on the same day, so the "big stars" are really accessible.


On another note, I wonder if, after Pidcocks decimation, top xco riders will be reassessing their upper body weight/strength. TP ain't exactly Arnie.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

madfella said:


> On another note, I wonder if, after Pidcocks decimation, top xco riders will be reassessing their upper body weight/strength. TP ain't exactly Arnie.


Considering how advanced roadies are compared to mtb'ers in "medical knowledge", they may want to up that. Let's face it, road cycling manages way more money and are vastly more capable of pushing the athletle in white, grey and black areas when it comes to physiology performance. This will become a race to having the best doctor.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

The way he's riding recently, Flüeckiger could steal the show from Schurter. He's flying under the radar with all the MVDP vs Pidcock talk, on track for a bronze medal.

He just beat Nino 1:1 in the Swiss championships as well.


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-jolanda-neff-and-mathias-flueckiger-are-the-2021-swiss-xc-national-champions.html





bananajoe said:


> The Swiss MTB selection for the Olympics
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397846016817250308


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Are they all riding 29er?

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Are they all riding 29er?
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


Yes for about the last 5 years


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

We're closing in on a decade of all-29ers in XCO after a few unsuccessful holdouts at the 2012 Olympics. What's changed in the past 5 years is: it's 100% full suspension now. 

The change we're in the midst of now is the changeover to modern geometry. In the next couple of years after that happens, we'll see 120mm rigs start to become the mode. People shout at me about this, but I'm just observing the obvious...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> ...What's changed in the past 5 years is: it's 100% full suspension now.


The first race of the season disagrees with you.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

:eyeroll:, we should all know that has more to do with the qualification process with the short track, only one bike type allowed--the UCI has "corrected" that problem recently by adding more gnar to the short track. 



smartyiak said:


> The first race of the season disagrees with you.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> :eyeroll:, we should all know that has more to do with the qualification process with the short track, only one bike type allowed--the UCI has "corrected" that problem recently by adding more gnar to the short track.


I don't believe that to be true. It has to do with Albstadt being an easier course. I think we'll see nearly 100% FS at the Olympics, but "horses for courses" as they say.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tom-pidcock-breaks-collar-bone-in-training-crash.html



This changes things, at least in the short term. Ugh. I've had this injury, plate and all.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

chomxxo said:


> In the next couple of years after that happens, we'll see 120mm rigs start to become the mode. People shout at me about this, but I'm just observing the obvious...


Evolution is inevitable, although which direction it evolves is harder to predict. 120mm definitely seems to be a current battleground, and to some extent, it matters what viewers want to see. I would claim that the difference between HT and FS is much larger than 100mm to 120mm. And XCO already selects for body types that tend to be lighter (minus the MvdPs of the world), so stiffness isn't the same issue as it is for the average rider on a bike.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Ouch! Training through a hairline fracture in my shoulder right now, but that is much tougher.

To stay on topic, I'd suggest that body type is partially selective based upon the best bikes that are available (and the dangerous conventional wisdom that dies extra-hard in XCO). These racers are very skilled, but they're not super-human. Anyone could tell that MVDP wasn't descending well at Nove Mesto on his old-school Lux. Pauline Ferrand-Prevot crashed hard.

Bigger riders have succeeded in XCO. However the Kulhavys, Ryan Trebons, and Taylor Phinneys of the world seem to eventually succumb to multiple injuries when they try to fit themselves onto a bike that's too small for them.



tommyrod74 said:


> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tom-pidcock-breaks-collar-bone-in-training-crash.html
> 
> 
> 
> This changes things, at least in the short term. Ugh. I've had this injury, plate and all.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tom-pidcock-breaks-collar-bone-in-training-crash.html
> 
> 
> 
> This changes things, at least in the short term. Ugh. I've had this injury, plate and all.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

chomxxo said:


> Bigger riders have succeeded in XCO. However the Kulhavys, Ryan Trebons, and Taylor Phinneys of the world seem to eventually succumb to multiple injuries when they try to fit themselves onto a bike that's too small for them.


You always seem to out do yourself with dumbest internet comment.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Apparently Pidcock got hit in the side by a car. According to his coach, he is going to make the Olympics, and is intending to do an XCO race on July 4th. I truly have no idea how one could do that, I know I'd be crying and laying in bed for a month 😂


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

cal_len1 said:


> Apparently Pidcock got hit in the side by a car.


MFing cars.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

If we are talking about equipment changes between 2016 and 2021 I would say they have been pretty subtle. I would say the 2021 bikes are easier to descend on but might go up hill a bit slower due to extra weight.

Biggest changes 
1. Droppers
2. Large tires and wide rims
3. Stiffer/heavier forks

But the rate of bike evolution has slowed. The bikes from 2016 would still be competitive in todays field.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> :eyeroll:, we should all know that has more to do with the qualification process with the short track, only one bike type allowed--the UCI has "corrected" that problem recently by adding more gnar to the short track.


It has nothing to do with that. Everybody makes bike choice based on the XCO only. Partly because generally an FS is just as quick around a short track course as a hardtail, or perhaps even faster. The rear suspension really help you find traction when sprinting across bumpy grass.

Any time there is extended steep climbs people are looking at their hardtails. Albstadt, Leogang, and Les Gets are all course where a hardtail is a competitive option.

I believe that most people will race an FS at the Olympics, but it isn't a clear as some think. The Olympic course is smooth with short steep climbs. The technical element is big features, and all those features can be ridden at speed on a hardtail. I would not be surprised to see someone like Mathias F. race and win on a hardtail.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Bigger riders have succeeded in XCO. However the Kulhavys, Ryan Trebons, and Taylor Phinneys of the world seem to eventually succumb to multiple injuries when they try to fit themselves onto a bike that's too small for them.


Taylor Phinney raced World Cup XCO? How did I miss that?

The link between bike size and breaking your knee while walking across an icy parking lot like Kulhavy did is lost to me, I must confess.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah yeah. Note that I said "multiple injuries." Kulhavy has a laundry list.

Add Sam Gaze to that list as well.

Everything I've predicted has come true, and still nobody is returning to 26" hardtails LMN... I'm still waiting...



LMN said:


> Taylor Phinney raced World Cup XCO? How did I miss that?
> 
> The link between bike size and breaking your knee while walking across an icy parking lot like Kulhavy did is lost to me, I must confess.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Yeah yeah. Note that I said "multiple injuries." Kulhavy has a laundry list.
> 
> Add Sam Gaze to that list as well.
> 
> Everything I've predicted has come true, and still nobody is returning to 26" hardtails LMN... I'm still waiting...


What is up with your obsession with a need to be right about everything?

Discussion boards are about discussions. We share thoughts, make predictions, some are right some are wrong. But you seem to be obsessed with being right. Honestly it is pretty strange and sort of misses the point of message boards.

I fully admit that I didn't think 29ers would take off, I also didn't think droppers would for XC, and I never in a million years thought that people would be racing would cups with 900 grams of tire, insert and sealant per wheel. And as someone who is insider and an expert at the sport this shouldn't be a surprise, insiders are typically terrible at predictions, we are too stuck in our ways.

But here is some fuel for thought/discussion. If you count the big wins, World Cup overalls, WC and Olympic gold medals from 2012 to 2016 you will see that 14 were won by 26/27.5 and 9 were won on 29er. Those are the numbers by my count (happy for a fact check on that). And this is with the vast majority of riders racing 29. So the few that bucked the big wheel trend were dominant. But still 29ers became the only wheel choice for XC. Why do you think this is the case?


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

My question is, are XC race courses actually getting more harder/technical? Watching videos of races from the past 10 years they all look the same to me. It seems like there is a lot of marketing fluff with xc race bikes. 

I like where Trek is going. Make a dedicated XC bike for your factory racers and a dedicated XC/trail bike with longer travel and progressive geometry for everyone else.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

LMN said:


> What is up with your obsession with a need to be right about everything?
> 
> Discussion boards are about discussions. We share thoughts, make predictions, some are right some are wrong. But you seem to be obsessed with being right. Honestly it is pretty strange and sort of misses the point of message boards.
> 
> ...


Honestly, at this point, I just feel bad for him. And I try to interpret him figuratively rather than literally because he plays fast and loose with facts to support his predictions/beliefs/ideology. Facts are facts and they shouldn't have to be explained. Example "100%" are on hardtails over the last "five years." Not a fact, period. But interpreted figuratively, perhaps he is saying the trend is toward full suspension bikes which is true.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I believe you're in agreement that facts align closer with my opinions of where things were going. That's big of you, I respect your ability to admit that.

Obsession: well my post count is about 1/3 of yours in the same timeframe. I don't follow people from thread to thread attacking them personally. Not saying that you do, but there are a lot of people that do that, to me and others. I know a few things about you, but frankly I consider those kind of things none of my business. I know some people who live in my area that would come on here and start a flame war, but I've been standing next to them several times at races and they wouldn't even look at me  I don't have much respect for that.

It's not important that I'm right. Frankly, it just seems totally obvious. I believe the Kulhavy fit I've compared to the Emperor's New Clothes. I hold no sway over the bike industry--and yet they generally agree with what I've been saying, just an over the hill Cat 1 age group guy.

I'll tell you what gets me fired up: when I think of all the time I wasted mimicking a pro setup like this. Looks like Jaro's bike, doesn't it?










It's not, it's Sam Gaze's. When I see this kind of thing being passed from one generation to the other, it bothers me. He's responsible for his own career-threatening injuries to some extent, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Mountain biking is dangerous and this under-sizing of frames has been going on for years--it's ended several pro's careers. I'm relieved to see the youngest generation of riders not falling as far under its sway.

One last prediction, that MVDP will be seriously injured as well if he continues with his current bike setup.



LMN said:


> What is up with your obsession with a need to be right about everything?
> 
> Discussion boards are about discussions. We share thoughts, make predictions, some are right some are wrong. But you seem to be obsessed with being right. Honestly it is pretty strange and sort of misses the point of message boards.
> 
> ...


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Racers ride the bikes that their sponsors supply to them. Bike companies sponsor race teams so that they can sell more bikes (build name recognition, goodwill, etc), or, more precisely, make more money. If the industry has migrated to 29ers, then those are the bikes that will be supplied to the racers. I remember a few years ago trying to find a small road bike for a 5'1" tall woman, around 2014. For a bike that size, 650C (ERTO 584mm) wheels make sense--allows normal trail, head angle, etc while avoiding massive toe overlap. Around 2010 all the big manufacturers had 650C bikes, but by 2014, they were unavailable, other than for specialty suppliers like Terry Bikes. Had engineering principles changed in four years? No. The industry decided that they could be more profitable if they switched over to poorly-designed 700C bikes for their S/XS bikes, since this allowed more standardization of parts (wheels). Perhaps demand for small bikes had dropped over four years, prompting the change. In any case, the small women professional racers, who had been riding 650C bikes in 2010, were all riding 700C bikes in 2014, and winning races, probably just as many as they had won in 2010. It's a business.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> One last prediction, that MVDP will be seriously injured as well if he continues with his current bike setup.


What's weird about his bike setup?


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

So if 29er is the norm for competition and 99% pro athletes uses. Why make and sell 27.5 then? Even DH athletes uses 29er right? 

I mean, people wants to buy bikes that they see on world championships, isnt it?

I find it weird that most company now, if bikes size is small, wheel is only 27.5. 29 only avail on medium frame up. 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

First of all, I don't attack you. I may disagree or post a counter argument but I don't attack you. Do I respond when you attack me, which you do all the time, yes I do. I would be more than happy to engage in a thoughtful discussion without being attacked. I happen to like talking about bikes and racing.

So let's talk about bikes and racing.

Believe it or not but I have been on the longer and slacker train for a long time. I have fairly deep connections in the bike industry and for the last dozen years or so when ever the question has come up about how to change next years bike, I have always asked can you make the top tube a bit longer and the head angle a bit slacker. Way back in the 90s I was over forking the Gary Fisher Genisis bikes which gave them geometry fairly similar to todays bikes. So I am pretty happy with where bikes are now. I wish 27.5 was still an option for XC bikes, 29inch wheels do create some real compromises for shorter riders but I can work around them.

I think linking injuries to bike geometry is a real stretch. Crashes happen because a rider makes an error. Take Sam Gaze, despite a set-up that looks unrideable bad, he absolutely rips. At worlds is 2019 he had a massive crash in training. I was watching him the day before his crash rip through that section crazy fast, faster than anybody else. So did he crash because his bike was too long or did he crash because he took too big of a risk? Catharine crashed the other day on her Epic, washed the front end in a corner. The geometry of the bike had nothing to do with the crash, she got caught with too much weight on the inside hand and the front wheel pushed away.

I do a lot of bike fits for elite riders. And a bike fit with me is usually a test session, we find a loop and do repeats of it with different stems, bars, shock settings, ect... After each change we have chat about the positives and negatives and what adaptations can be make to either equipment or technique. It always amazes me but some riders like long stems. Even when they test a frame a size up with a shorter stem they still come back to the smaller frame with longer stem. Given that they are doing stuff on their bike that I only dream of doing I don't argue with them.

The last month or so I have been on a borrowed bike. Although the bike doesn't quite look like Kulhavy's, it certainly feels that way to me. It has been a real struggle to get up to speed on it. I spent the first three or four rides getting seriously dropped on every descent, but you know what, I have been adapting my technique and the speed is coming. I am still a bit off the pace but I think I will get there. I still want to replace the 100mm -25 stem with a nice 70mm one but it isn't my bike.

That is the thing about modern bike geometry. The difference between two bikes are very subtle and small adaptations in technique or style is all that required.



chomxxo said:


> I believe you're in agreement that facts align closer with my opinions of where things were going. That's big of you, I respect your ability to admit that.
> 
> Obsession: well my post count is about 1/3 of yours in the same timeframe. I don't follow people from thread to thread attacking them personally. Not saying that you do, but there are a lot of people that do that, to me and others. I know a few things about you, but frankly I consider those kind of things none of my business. I know some people who live in my area that would come on here and start a flame war, but I've been standing next to them several times at races and they wouldn't even look at me  I don't have much respect for that.
> 
> ...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> We're closing in on a decade of all-29ers in XCO after a few unsuccessful holdouts at the 2012 Olympics. What's changed in the past 5 years is: it's 100% full suspension now.
> 
> The change we're in the midst of now is the changeover to modern geometry. In the next couple of years after that happens, we'll see 120mm rigs start to become the mode. People shout at me about this, but I'm just observing the obvious...


plenty of hardtails in the men's and women's field. Look we get it you need the attention. there they're their.

N1no is pretty much alone on a 110m travel fork and much of the time its running in the mid or firm setting with open only used on technical descents. SO until a 120mm travel fork is lighter than a 100mm travel fork its not going to be the prefered choice.. 
Even MVDP steps his '22 Fox 34SC down to 100mm. He uses the fork because thats what his sponsor provides SO unless the bike industry wants to kill 100mm forks it will continue to offer 100mm to sponsored XCO athletes


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> I'll tell you what gets me fired up: when I think of all the time I wasted mimicking a pro setup like this. Looks like Jaro's bike, doesn't it?
> 
> View attachment 1933489
> 
> ...


Look man, if this is truly your agenda, then cool. But let me offer you some advice so maybe you will stop being your own worst enemy.

First, don't play fast and loose with facts and then treat the other person as an idiot when that person points out that your facts are wrong, when they are in fact, wrong. This actually does not hurt the other guy - it hurts you. Your credibility takes a hit.

Second, don't cherry pick your data. Nino also runs a radical setup. A 5'8'' guy with a -25 90 degree stem with 680 bars is unconventional by any measure. A setup that would be endo city for your garden variety mountain biker. But the guy is rarely hurt. That's the problem with cherry picking your evidence. You look hard enough and you can always find something to support nearly any type of B.S. out there. Again, when you do this it does not hurt us, it hurts you. Another hit on your credibility.

Third, state things with some humility even if a little bit. Being right is a lot harder then being wrong. So when you act like you can't be wrong and everyone else is an idiot, that again, does not hurt us, it hurts you. Because nobody is right all the time so when you act like you are right all the time, people will just assume that you are wrong all the time. Nobody is God.

Fourth, don't get all bitchey if somebody disagrees with you and call them names and try to sully their reputation. Just stick with the facts and give your analysis. If you do it in a civilized way, people will consider your opinion and even listen to you rather than just tune you out.

Anyways, I am sincerely trying to help you here. Everybody is just trying to learn here and nobody has all the answers.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> plenty of hardtails in the men's and women's field. Look we get it you need the attention. there they're their.
> 
> N1no is pretty much alone on a 110m travel fork and much of the time its running in the mid or firm setting with open only used on technical descents. SO until a 120mm travel fork is lighter than a 100mm travel fork its not going to be the prefered choice..
> Even MVDP steps his '22 Fox 34SC down to 100mm. He uses the fork because thats what his sponsor provides SO unless the bike industry wants to kill 100mm forks it will continue to offer 100mm to sponsored XCO athletes


And the industry might kill 100mm sooner rather than later.

Fox killed the 32 SC so the 34 SC is their lightest fork. My guess is Rockshox may follow suit. They also might enjoy being the only lightweight fork manufacturer on the market though.

Scott already only offers 110mm forks on the MY21 RC models and the interviews with the men indicate they are using 120mm travel frames. If Scott is doing it, the others will follow within 5 years. The last spark rc was released in 2016, by 2018/2019 other manufacturer were at the same geometry/spec's/ and flex stays.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cal_len1 said:


> Apparently Pidcock got hit in the side by a car. According to his coach, he is going to make the Olympics, and is intending to do an XCO race on July 4th. I truly have no idea how one could do that, I know I'd be crying and laying in bed for a month 😂


 Its possible. I did my clavicle in October last year. was back on the IDT a few days post op and back on the road on my mtb 10 days post opp (when the stiches were basically healed. I was on my MTB on the easy trails at about 3.5weeks and proper trails around week5. By week 7 I could do a full 202km road race and week 8 an MTB race. took the chicken runs so I reckon Pidcock being 20 years younger will be just fine. Might not be at 100% fitness but he should be on the startline


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MessagefromTate said:


> MVDP runs 115mm stem with -17 degrees of drop and a flat bar. In the "know it all's" opinion he should size up two frame sizes using a 35mm stem with minimal rise and a 2" riser bar. Then he would never get injured, LOL.


If that's what he needs to get the reach and seat to bar drop he is used to...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Ksanman said:


> And the industry might kill 100mm sooner rather than later.
> 
> Fox killed the 32 SC so the 34 SC is their lightest fork. My guess is Rockshox may follow suit. They also might enjoy being the only lightweight fork manufacturer on the market though.
> 
> Scott already only offers 110mm forks on the MY21 RC models and the interviews with the men indicate they are using 120mm travel frames. If Scott is doing it, the others will follow within 5 years. The last spark rc was released in 2016, by 2018/2019 other manufacturer were at the same geometry/spec's/ and flex stays.


Fox releasing an updated 34 SC isn't the death knell for the 32 SC. Its still very much their mainstream XCO fork. Many many riders and manufacturers still spec the 32SC and will continue to do so.

Scott spec a 110mm fork on the Spark RC because its bb is too low when the bike is in sag. An easy way to acheive more BB height is fit a longer fork.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> Fox releasing an updated 34 SC isn't the death knell for the 32 SC. Its still very much their mainstream XCO fork. Many many riders and manufacturers still spec the 32SC and will continue to do so.
> 
> Scott spec a 110mm fork on the Spark RC because its bb is too low when the bike is in sag. An easy way to acheive more BB height is fit a longer fork.


From the press release "The new 34 SC replaces the previous 34 SC and the smaller-stanchioned XC race 32 SC".


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Ksanman said:


> From the press release "The new 34 SC replaces the previous 34 SC and the smaller-stanchioned XC race 32 SC".


Completely wrong, both are offered.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> What's weird about his bike setup?


If you have a stem longer than 60-70mm, you probably need the next largest size up.

This is the standard that XC mountain bikes are completing a transition to currently. Merida, Specialized, Santa Cruz, Norco, Intense, and others come with this setup.

Unfortunately Canyon and Scott are still lagging behind, but he could ride a size XL.

While I was clearly right, and that isn't important, it's much more important that supporters of the historic XCO pro mystique be wrong on this issue though, I must admit. Besides the safety risk that's clear, there's also just how off-putting XC bikes are when every other category of mountain biking has embraced common sense. You can hear it from trail riders, dirt jumpers, enduro riders, and downhillers: they all think XC is weird.

You can build a bike that handles and descends well, one that's is actually fun to ride, without sacrificing a bit of climbing performance, and that's exactly what's been done recently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

chomxxo said:


> If you have a stem longer than 60-70mm, you probably need the next largest size up.
> 
> This is the standard that XC mountain bikes are completing a transition to currently. Merida, Specialized, Santa Cruz, Norco, Intense, and others come with this setup.
> 
> ...


Longer/lower/slacker for everyone is the industry mantra. It has nothing to do with pedaling, everything to do with descending. XC is mostly about pedaling, but if you trickle L/L/S down to XC then you can get people to buy new XC bikes, because they think there must be something wrong with their old XC bikes if the new bikes have different geometry. For a plodding hobbyist like me, the new XC bike geometry is actually nice--basically like a trail bike from five years ago, good for all around rides on the local, not-too-demanding trails. But it might not be optimal for racing. Let me bring in another factor that I don't hear talked about: aerodynamics. Drafting is not much of an issue in XC except on start/finish straights in XC. Riders are often riding solo or off the front of a group, fully facing the wind. If you can handle your bike with a slammed stem and narrow bars, with narrow tires, riding a more laid out position, then the aerodynamic savings could well translate into tens of seconds on some courses, I reckon:








Do aerodynamics matter in mountain biking? - MBR


Check out this informative and genuinely surprising video from Specialized where they put various riding positions through wind tunnel testing.




www.mbr.co.uk




Whether MVDP or Sam Gaze are thinking about this, I don't know. But Nino might be. Any racers want to comment? Do you think about aerodynamics, ever?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> Whether MVDP or Sam Gaze are thinking about this, I don't know. But Nino might be. Any racers want to comment? Do you think about aerodynamics, ever?


Absolutely. A good aerodynamic position is a much bigger performance factor than just about all the little bike details that people obsess about. But you don't need a long stem to achieve this, a long stem does give a bit more ability to change the bar height. However, with modern bikes unless you are running a stem that is less than about -22 degrees long stems actually increase bar height.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> You can hear it from trail riders, dirt jumpers, enduro riders, and downhillers: they all think XC is weird.


And they all live for the descents (and jumps).

There's going to be a middle ground, which is where XC bikes are heading...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> And they all live for the descents (and jumps).
> 
> There's going to be a middle ground, which is where XC bikes are heading...


Amateur XC bikes are there all ready. But the demands of WC racing are different.

I don't think many realize just how fast WC guys and girls descend. Just about everybody posting on this thread is no where near their descending speed on any bike. Down most descents they are going as fast as the trail can be ridden. More bike isn't going to make them any faster, it might make you and I faster but not them.

What is pushing WC bike development right now is a desire to make descending easier. I have heard it described as "I just want to go straight legs, straight arms, and let the bike do its thing so I can recover". That is what makes bike development interesting. That metric "how easy a bike is to ride fast" isn't easy to measure and honestly varies from course to course.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> I have heard it described as "I just want to go straight legs, straight arms, and let the bike do its thing so I can recover".


The MvDP technique


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> What is up with your obsession with a need to be right about everything?
> 
> Discussion boards are about discussions. We share thoughts, make predictions, some are right some are wrong. But you seem to be obsessed with being right. Honestly it is pretty strange and sort of misses the point of message boards.
> 
> ...


you're probably arguing with a 12 year old. At first I thought he was about 5yrs old but then I realised he's not Hambini so pre puberty seems the next logical conclusion. On every bike geo tpic just cut and paste his usual drivel and move on to responses with people who actually have ideas and facts not a hymn sheet from the church of bike industry marketing


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> The MvDP technique


yet hes one of the fastest decenders with a 100mm stem and 69 degree head angle straight legs and bent arms.
One of the bigest contributors to improving the current crop of bikes is the vastly improved ability of the suspension unit to deal with the separation of high speed and low speed compression damping, thus allowing the designers to reduce the anti squat curve. With the damper being more effective the engineers have focussed on traction despite the bikes being heavier. A 2021 Scalpel carbon 3 climbs more smoothly up rooty climbs than my 2018.
The Lefty Ocho delivers loads more traction when descending than the LEfty 2.0 or even a Fox 34 from the same model year. The biggest improvements has come from suspension. The longer front centres on the latest bikes provide a little more confidence but not nearly as much as a well tuned suspension does and there.s not pro XCO rcer at the sharp end of the field on a standard suspension. It's all custom tuned


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Longer/lower/slacker for everyone is the industry mantra. It has nothing to do with pedaling, everything to do with descending. XC is mostly about pedaling, but if you trickle L/L/S down to XC then you can get people to buy new XC bikes, because they think there must be something wrong with their old XC bikes if the new bikes have different geometry. For a plodding hobbyist like me, the new XC bike geometry is actually nice--basically like a trail bike from five years ago, good for all around rides on the local, not-too-demanding trails. But it might not be optimal for racing. Let me bring in another factor that I don't hear talked about: aerodynamics. Drafting is not much of an issue in XC except on start/finish straights in XC. Riders are often riding solo or off the front of a group, fully facing the wind. If you can handle your bike with a slammed stem and narrow bars, with narrow tires, riding a more laid out position, then the aerodynamic savings could well translate into tens of seconds on some courses, I reckon:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All the time, right down to tyre choice. I'd rather ride a semi slick in a marathon and deal with the grip issues through technique than drag a trail tyre around. Not only is it heavy rolling but the wind noise of the tyre tells me its generating a lot of drag at 30km/hr.
I prefer a snug road race fitting top most of the time but in the heat of summer i'l opt for a light indoor bib and vented baggie like the LEATT 1.0.
Lots of XC racers prefer a skin suit for aero reasons.. Its very much a consideration within whats possible with existing equipment.
I;m getting a couple of custom skin suits made for myself to try out. I got given a winter cyclocross skin suit a few years ago and it was amazing how comfortable and time saving it was through a 90km marathon


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I come from a dirt bike background so I never gave two sh$ts about aerodynamics for the first few years of mountain biking. Let's just say that the first time I started riding with tight fitting lycra was eye opening. On a long loop, I was setting PRs effortlessly. I sort of became aero obssessed after that and lowered my cockpit and narrowed my bars and those were the biggest leaps (aside from going lycra) I made in my times. Prior to that and being from a moto background, I was focusing on all the enduro bro, marketing hype equipment like higher, wider bars, burly tires and all that just made me slower around an XC loop.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I watched the replay of recent xco. I noticed in the beginning, when they are forming the starting line . 

When athletes stand (bike between their legs), there is so much room from top tube to their inseam. Probably at least 3 inches in my opinion. Some even more. The only one that almost touches his crouch to top tube is cooper of trek.


Does it mean they are riding bike 1 size down? 2 to 3 inches allowance is too much I think? 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> I watched the replay of recent xco. I noticed in the beginning, when they are forming the starting line .
> 
> When athletes stand (bike between their legs), there is so much room from top tube to their inseam. Probably at least 3 inches in my opinion. Some even more. The only one that almost touches his crouch to top tube is cooper of trek.
> 
> ...


they ride the smallest frame they can comfortably fit on to keep the bike short and manoeuvrable. Like a big BMX with gears. The smaller bike is easier to manual, bunny hop flick around through corners etc. Stem length i snot an issue, just a piece of pipe to hang the handlebars from


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Brad said:


> they ride the smallest frame they can comfortably fit on to keep the bike short and manoeuvrable. Like a big BMX with gears. The smaller bike is easier to manual, bunny hop flick around through corners etc. Stem length i snot an issue, just a piece of pipe to hang the handlebars from


But not the most comfortable, is it?

Is it applicable to weekend riders like me? I really wanted a race xc bike but before I splurge on upgrade, I want to make sure I have the right size bit race ready bike just incase theres a local tournament in the future.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> But not the most comfortable, is it?
> 
> Is it applicable to weekend riders like me? I really wanted a race xc bike but before I splurge on upgrade, I want to make sure I have the right size bit race ready bike just incase theres a local tournament in the future.
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


Comfortable?
Why would it not be comfortable? Comfort is a factor of fitness, age and flexibility. The frame you fit on will depend on your specific needs, not those of a pro or elite amateur racer.
I've got a medium 2018 Scalpel Si, reach 426mm top tube 599mm. I tried the 2021 model in a size small, with reach 415mm an top tube 584mm wit 90mm stem. I was much faster on the smaller bike and more comfortable. It really depends on your own ability, needs and riding style.
For me the descents of the XCO or XCM courses are opportunities to recover. I'm not going to throw every bit of energy into trying to win the race on the descent, that's just a silly high risk strategy.
Suspension set up is the other factor and has a very big impact on rider comfort.
For an elite to professional racer spending upward of 115hrs a weektraing a short 90min race is hardly a comfort consideration.
you on the other hand may only have 8 hrs a week to train for a 3hr - 6hr race. Your comfort decisions are being informed by a different foundation and performance expectations


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> they ride the smallest frame they can comfortably fit on to keep the bike short and manoeuvrable. Like a big BMX with gears. The smaller bike is easier to manual, bunny hop flick around through corners etc. Stem length i snot an issue, just a piece of pipe to hang the handlebars from


There was a recent timed test of a bunch of enduro bikes done by Enduro magazine. They found that downsizing and shorter bikes were the fastest. And there was quite a bit of variation in the skillsets of the test crew. Ironically, the slowest bike was the longest, and slackest with the longest front center. The fastest enduro race bike - 10 bikes go head-to-head on an EWS stage | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine

This is for enduro riding and so it's going to be downhill biased. But if the slackest bike isn't even the fastest there, then it makes you question how slack you really want it for XC.

Of course, this doesn't mean everyone should run out and downsize or buy short bikes. It really depends on your priorities. If you care about safety and stability, then buy the slack bike. If you want to go as fastest possible, then buy the shorter less safe bike. Most of the time, being fast isn't the same thing as being safe. I drive a minivan for safety but would prefer a BMW for fast.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> There was a recent timed test of a bunch of enduro bikes done by Enduro magazine. They found that downsizing and shorter bikes were the fastest. And there was quite a bit of variation in the skillsets of the test crew. Ironically, the slowest bike was the longest, and slackest with the longest front center. The fastest enduro race bike - 10 bikes go head-to-head on an EWS stage | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
> 
> This is for enduro riding and so it's going to be downhill biased. But if the slackest bike isn't even the fastest there, then it makes you question how slack you really want it for XC.
> 
> Of course, this doesn't mean everyone should run out and downsize or buy short bikes. It really depends on your priorities. If you care about safety and stability, then buy the slack bike. If you want to go as fastest possible, then buy the shorter less safe bike. Most of the time, being fast isn't the same thing as being safe. I drive a minivan for safety but would prefer a BMW for fast.


perfect answer!


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> perfect answer!


And before chomxo comes in and bites my head off, I should add this: I think XC bikes are still looking for the sweet spot in geometry and I am definitely not saying old school 69 hta is that sweet spot. I think the trend toward slacker XC bikes is a good thing and moving toward the sweet spot. On the other hand, some enduro bikes have probably exceeded the sweet spot and are starting to dial it back.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> And before chomxo comes in and bites my head off, I should add this: I think XC bikes are still looking for the sweet spot in geometry and I am definitely not saying old school 69 hta is that sweet spot. I think the trend toward slacker XC bikes is a good thing and moving toward the sweet spot. On the other hand, some enduro bikes have probably exceeded the sweet spot and are starting to dial it back.


There probably isn't a sweet spot but a sweet range.The key to a fast bike is suspension and rider position that works for the big bobbing lump between the wheels. We're all built differently carry weight in different places. So centre of gravity is highly variable within the market and therefore there is a place for many different designs. the rider just ha to find out what works for them.
I started with 760mm bars and am now back to 720 with a 70mm stem. I could go to 700mm with an 80mm stem and its faster but not till I have a Lefty Ocho with more tuning options. With a dropper post I find I want a longer stem and I want less stack height too. SO a -17 degree stem is the next part to be fitted. Understeer is a position killer in XCO.
Front and rear wheel stiffness has a huge effect on how the steering feels. More so than head angle. When i fitted my custom wheels to the 2021 Scalpel the steering felt much more lively, similar to my regular 2019 bike so the head angle had zero effect overall and theres a 1.5 degree difference between the two bikes and fork offset is the same at 55mm.
The stiffness of the frame is another overlooked handling contributor. A Bike with a stiff head tube top tube down tube junction is going to be a lot easier and more forgiving bike to steer through the terrain. I spoke with a good acquaintance of mine, who is a wrench for one of the pro teams, about sorting out a particular bb height problem.
He said "Bring it around, i'll retune the fork to a three position and soften the lockout. You'll only need the open setting for descents and you probably won't be pedalling much. The firm and mid positions will keep the fork higher in its travel to assist with preventing pedal strikes but I recommend you change the cranks to 170mm units." And this bike does't have the lowest BB when sagged!! 
I've subsequently spent time with a Shoqwiz and its been the best investment in speed and comfort ever.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> There probably isn't a sweet spot but a sweet range.The key to a fast bike is suspension and rider position that works for the big bobbing lump between the wheels. We're all built differently carry weight in different places. So centre of gravity is highly variable within the market and therefore there is a place for many different designs. the rider just ha to find out what works for them.
> I started with 760mm bars and am now back to 720 with a 70mm stem. I could go to 700mm with an 80mm stem and its faster but not till I have a Lefty Ocho with more tuning options. With a dropper post I find I want a longer stem and I want less stack height too. SO a -17 degree stem is the next part to be fitted. Understeer is a position killer in XCO.
> Front and rear wheel stiffness has a huge effect on how the steering feels. More so than head angle. When i fitted my custom wheels to the 2021 Scalpel the steering felt much more lively, similar to my regular 2019 bike so the head angle had zero effect overall and theres a 1.5 degree difference between the two bikes and fork offset is the same at 55mm.
> The stiffness of the frame is another overlooked handling contributor. A Bike with a stiff head tube top tube down tube junction is going to be a lot easier and more forgiving bike to steer through the terrain. I spoke with a good acquaintance of mine, who is a wrench for one of the pro teams, about sorting out a particular bb height problem.
> ...


Very interesting. Thanks for the insights.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said
"More bike isn't going to make XCO Professionals any faster on the decents".

I agree with everything he/she says but not sure about that. After a short learning curve, I bet a WC racer could descend faster on, say, a modern enduro bike.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

descend what faster? An XCO course or a DH course?
That's like saying after a short learning curve Kimi Raikkonen can drive a WRC car faster around a rally stage than his F1 car..
Sounds insightful but is actually only stating the obvious.
WC XCO courses consist of some very steep climbs too. Hows your 16kg enduro bike doing on the climbs?


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

🙂 Such a scathing reply Brad! 
If you want the context, I suggest you refer back to the original comment?


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> there is so much room from top tube to their inseam. Probably at least 3 inches in my opinion.
> Does it mean they are riding bike 1 size down? 2 to 3 inches allowance is too much I think?


It is because bike manufacturers are trying to allow the longest dropper post possible, they are in a race to have 200mm+ droppers and super wide in diameter, pretty soon the average bike will have the top tube so low that the average bike will look like a 1970s mixte (ie. girls bike to be politically incorrect), and the Bro Dudes will be totally for it and consider anything that has a diamond like silhouette a penny farthing

Once the seat is lower than an imagery straight line, drawn between the top of the rear tire (at full suspension compression) and the stem, I don't see how you can get a performance benefit while riding DH or jump tracks


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

madfella said:


> 🙂 Such a scathing reply Brad!
> If you want the context, I suggest you refer back to the original comment?


certainly not intending to be scathing but when quoting a reply from another post it helps to provide the context of your comment. LMN is making a general statement while you;re trying to pigeon hole it to suit your argument. That's misrepresenting the intent of their comment. Put an XCo racer on an XCO bike at Megavalanche then for sure they will be beat up long before the XCO racer on the machine built for the purpose but they will be riding that XCo bike faster than the weekend warriors on their tricked out Enduro rigs, i.e, highlighting the level of skill and commitment they take into riding their bike.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

What's the mtb equivalent of mamil?

Loic Bruni did that eliminator race last year on his "trail bike", which was a 2019/2020 epic evo with meatier tires and wider handlebars. He did pretty well if I recall. 

Fast people are fast no matter what bike they are on (within reason) or how ridiculous it looks. And they dial their equipment for the races they are serious about and have fun with what they have.

The fast people I know may not have a deep understanding of bikes or geometry, but they have a deep understanding of how they feel riding a particular bike, and make changes according to what they need, not some random people on the internet.

I believe that comes from years of riding and lots of miles, not from reading forums or press releases.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

ccm said:


> It is because bike manufacturers are trying to allow the longest dropper post possible, they are in a race to have 200mm+ droppers and super wide in diameter, pretty soon the average bike will have the top tube so low that the average bike will look like a 1970s mixte (ie. girls bike to be politically incorrect), and the Bro Dudes will be totally for it and consider anything that has a diamond like silhouette a penny farthing
> 
> Once the seat is lower than an imagery straight line, drawn between the top of the rear tire (at full suspension compression) and the stem, I don't see how you can get a performance benefit while riding DH or jump tracks


Ok understood.

But not everyone using dropper seat in the event. Im pertaining to recent mercedes uci xco. I just noticed that most of them seem like using a smaller frame in relation to their height.

I asked coz I have an xc bike now that is ok for my height but cant stand between my bike like the way those athletes on tv does while forming at starting line.

Heck, most of them even sit on their sit tube with knees fully bent. I can sit on my sit tube but cant bend my knees that much. Almost standing.

*Pardon my ignorance. Im trying to learn here. Wish I have expert friends or people around me personally but forum/youtube is my bestfriend right now. So soaking much information as possible. Hehe.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

madfella said:


> LMN said
> "More bike isn't going to make XCO Professionals any faster on the decents".
> 
> I agree with everything he/she says but not sure about that. After a short
> ...


I was referring to the descents found on WC courses, not descents in general. The descents on WC course aren't long enough, fast enough, or rough enough for a world class ride to need more bike to descend faster. Even a solid amateur hack like myself is only marginally quicker on a capable trail bike.

A couple of years ago one of our local world cup pros signed for a round of the Canadian Enduro series. He was planning to race it on his Enduro bike, but his bike didn't show up in time. So he raced it on his XC bike, with XC tires and everything. I believe he was 7th in a field of 40 pros. And this was a proper Enduro track (15 minute stages, super steep, really muddy). He was a bit off his pace, in that field he is usually top 3 but still.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Someone once wrote “It’s not about the bike.”


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ksanman said:


> The fast people I know may not have a deep understanding of bikes or geometry, but they have a deep understanding of how they feel riding a particular bike, and make changes according to what they need, not some random people on the internet.


People who really care about bike geometry and people who are good at riding bikes are not the same people.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

MattMay said:


> Someone once wrote "It's not about the bike."


While its true.

You still need the "right tools" for the job.

I doubt Pidcock will win using Greg Minnaar's V10.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> While its true.
> 
> You still need the "right tools" for the job.
> 
> ...


for sure hence the idea that a XCO bike should look like DH bike on paper is just foolish because it does not account for optimising the design for the purpose. Hence I don't subscribe to silly internet dogma's around new geometry i.e.
slacker is better
longer is better
lower is better
wider is better
shorter is better
Those people dish out the most dangerous advice because they don't consider the individual,.... only their own beliefs


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> descend what faster? An XCO course or a DH course?
> That's like saying after a short learning curve Kimi Raikkonen can drive a WRC car faster around a rally stage than his F1 car..
> Sounds insightful but is actually only stating the obvious.


Off topic; Kimi wasn't too successful in his couple of WRC seasons; not massively fast - and had trouble making pace notes, which meant he visited the scenery quite often.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Off topic; Kimi wasn't too successful in his couple of WRC seasons; not massively fast - and had trouble making pace notes, which meant he visited the scenery quite often.


correct it really wasn't his forte in hindsight


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

paramount3 said:


> Longer/lower/slacker for everyone is the industry mantra. It has nothing to do with pedaling, everything to do with descending. XC is mostly about pedaling, but if you trickle L/L/S down to XC then you can get people to buy new XC bikes, because they think there must be something wrong with their old XC bikes if the new bikes have different geometry. For a plodding hobbyist like me, the new XC bike geometry is actually nice--basically like a trail bike from five years ago, good for all around rides on the local, not-too-demanding trails. But it might not be optimal for racing. Let me bring in another factor that I don't hear talked about: aerodynamics. Drafting is not much of an issue in XC except on start/finish straights in XC. Riders are often riding solo or off the front of a group, fully facing the wind. If you can handle your bike with a slammed stem and narrow bars, with narrow tires, riding a more laid out position, then the aerodynamic savings could well translate into tens of seconds on some courses, I reckon:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure I think about aerodynamics but nobody said anything about bar height changing.

Dropper posts certainly make a 4" saddle to bar drop like I raced for years a lot safer and faster downhill. However I should note that for climbing purposes, modern geometry eliminates having to slam the front end to keep the bike planted uphill. I'm currently at ~2.5".

Gone are setback seatposts (another method used to fit on undersized bikes) and in their place are steep seat tube angles, which decreases the lever causing twitchy old bikes to lift the front wheel.

Here's a guy who really knows mountain bike fit. Lee is in some ways antithetical to what I preach about long reach, but his RAD measurement paired with a short stem on modern bikes is a total winner.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm really confused on sizing with these new longer/slacker bikes. I can't help but think I'd be well served sizing down. I can't help but feel that with XCish tires, I'd need a longer stem with slack hta to keep weight on the front wheel. I get how the slacker XC bikes really shine in the gnarliest 10% of what we ride on XC bikes, but is it worth it if it compromises flat turns? I do get what LMN is saying, you adapt your technique over time. But is there a point, i.e. 66 degree hta where that becomes counterproductive. 
I guess the Spur is the best example as, at the time of writing, it seems to push the boundaries the most. The steep STA is a deal killer for me. Ignoring that, it being really long and being designed around a 50mm stem, I have a hard time imagining it being faster on anything but the steepest downhills. My thought is I'd want a small so as to use a 70 or even 80mm stem to keep weight on the front wheel. Transition did enough testing, they probably know better than I do. But, if the bike spec was designed around shining on steep Bellingham rock slabs and drops, then it might need modification to excel in XC racing. 
On a totally different note, but keeping with the Spur for a moment, is anyone else not thrilled with the new trend of stocking bikes with 2-position rear shocks? I like the middle position for much of my singletrack riding as I want more LSC without being locked-out.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sooooo...

Back to WC Race week!!!

Podium predictions? Winners? Who gets dropped?

Mat Fluck wins...

And since everyone wants ti pick LL, I'm going with another hot hand...Haley Batten wins!

Dark Horses: Dubau, Yana...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Sooooo...
> 
> Back to WC Race week!!!
> 
> ...


nice picks! Just had coffee with Haley this afternoon. Sounds like her training went well during the break.

The course here is steep. People are hunting down 30T rings. And I swear it has rained every day for the last three weeks.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> nice picks! Just had coffee with Haley this afternoon. Sounds like her training went well during the break.
> 
> The course here is steep. People are hunting down 30T rings. And I swear it has rained every day for the last three weeks.


I remember World Champs Jordan Sarrou raced on a 34T ring and 2.1 tires on a Full Suspension bike and Mat Fluck placed second on a HT bike while being sick all week.

PFP had a hard time on that course also, but she raced a HT.

Is the course similar to last years World Champs?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> Sounds like her training went well during the break.


How many racers are trying to specifically be fast for this race? NMNM seemed critical for so many team selections, but I guess I was expecting a lot of heavy legs for this race as racers were more interested in peaking for the Olympics. Or is my read on this wrong?


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

euro-trash said:


> I'm really confused on sizing with these new longer/slacker bikes. I can't help but think I'd be well served sizing down. I can't help but feel that with XCish tires, I'd need a longer stem with slack hta to keep weight on the front wheel. I get how the slacker XC bikes really shine in the gnarliest 10% of what we ride on XC bikes, but is it worth it if it compromises flat turns? I do get what LMN is saying, you adapt your technique over time. But is there a point, i.e. 66 degree hta where that becomes counterproductive.
> I guess the Spur is the best example as, at the time of writing, it seems to push the boundaries the most. The steep STA is a deal killer for me. Ignoring that, it being really long and being designed around a 50mm stem, I have a hard time imagining it being faster on anything but the steepest downhills. My thought is I'd want a small so as to use a 70 or even 80mm stem to keep weight on the front wheel. Transition did enough testing, they probably know better than I do. But, if the bike spec was designed around shining on steep Bellingham rock slabs and drops, then it might need modification to excel in XC racing.
> On a totally different note, but keeping with the Spur for a moment, is anyone else not thrilled with the new trend of stocking bikes with 2-position rear shocks? I like the middle position for much of my singletrack riding as I want more LSC without being locked-out.


If you want to be confused look at the Ghost Lector FS.

The spur is a bad example because it's not designed for xc racing or riding. It's designed as a short travel trail bike, not a slightly longer travel xc bike. Like an Ibis Ripley.

I was skeptical about 2 position stuff but after riding a bunch of bikes with only two position shocks there is really no point with modern suspension designs.

What would be nice are some lsc and hsc dials...

Is there a start list for Leogang yet?

I want to see Blevins break the top 10 for US men.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Sooooo...
> 
> Back to WC Race week!!!
> 
> ...


I'm rooting for Mathias and Jolanda, especially with LMN's comment regarding rain.

Wildcards: Christopher Blevins and Haley Batten. I've really liked what I've seen from the Trinity team this season.

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Ksanman said:


> If you want to be confused look at the Ghost Lector FS.


Damn, you aren't kidding! A 489mm reach on a medium!?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

euro-trash said:


> Damn, you aren't kidding! A 489mm reach on a medium!?


yeah its stupidly long and the riders are having trouble adapting to the bike....real trouble.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Well I do appreciate that qualification. The problem with the supposed rational debaters is that they are chomping at the bit to make personal attacks and discredit the poster, rather than look at the facts. I've been racing for a long time and I like my skills and fitness against any poster in this thread on my best day, and most of them on my worst day, but it's much safer to race behind the keyboard 

Back to the facts. The fastest reviewed Yeti SB150 has a 460mm reach in size M and the rider was 5'10".
The new-school Specialized Epic has a reach of 445 in size M and 470 in Size L. 
How many enduro bikes have a stem length longer than 60mm?

Are we starting to see things a little clearer?

I don't debate suspension much, nor head tube angle, actually. I believe my old Jet 9 RDO had a 71.5* HTA and I raced it with a 120mm stem back in the bad old days, which wasn't that long ago.

The full extent of reach comes to its natural limit with RAD. Our bodies have certain measurements and within those realms we are most maneuverable and powerful. The biggest and best change in XC bikes is consuming the distance from super-long stems with a longer top tube.



tick_magnet said:


> And before chomxo comes in and bites my head off, I should add this: I think XC bikes are still looking for the sweet spot in geometry and I am definitely not saying old school 69 hta is that sweet spot. I think the trend toward slacker XC bikes is a good thing and moving toward the sweet spot. On the other hand, some enduro bikes have probably exceeded the sweet spot and are starting to dial it back.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> Well I do appreciate that qualification. The problem with the supposed rational debaters is that they are chomping at the bit to make personal attacks and discredit the poster, rather than look at the facts. I've been racing for a long time and I like my skills and fitness against any poster in this thread on my best day, and most of them on my worst day, but it's much safer to race behind the keyboard


Let's just assume that you are faster than me so we can get this distraction out of the way. Does that mean you automatically win the bike setup argument? Because by that standard, all those world cup guys are faster than you and yet you are constantly discrediting their setups. I am really confused here about the logical sequence of arguments.



chomxxo said:


> Back to the facts. The fastest reviewed Yeti SB150 has a 460mm reach in size M and the rider was 5'10".
> The new-school Specialized Epic has a reach of 445 in size M and 470 in Size L.
> How many enduro bikes have a stem length longer than 60mm?
> 
> Are we starting to see things a little clearer?


Ok and.......? I said XC bikes are probably searching for a sweet spot and it may not be a bad thing they are getting longer and slacker. Are you agreeing with me or calling me out? I can't tell.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Women

- Loana Lecomte seem good with wet/muddy condition and steep terrain.

- Jolanda seem on track


Men

Shurter - Pidcock is out. 1 less top 5 I guess. 1 step easier for Nino.

MVDP - if he's there, he might win coz he is good in steep climbs and cyclocross biker where mud is normal. 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

I have a good feeling about Flückiger! Let's go!


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

gat3keeper said:


> MVDP - if he's there, he might win coz he is good in steep climbs and cyclocross biker where mud is normal.


He's at the Tour de Suisse.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Not at all. I really have no idea who you are. And other than disqualifying personal attacks against me, it doesn't really matter who I am, either.

While in recent times it's heartening to see that the best of the best in the cycling world are taking up XCO again, I sure hope that trend continues. We are blessed to have MVDP and Pidcock racing the races that we like.

The question I believe you should ask yourself is, are pro XC racers better bike handlers than pro enduro or downhill racers? I think you know the answer.

Secondly, how many athletes in their early 20s have mastered their craft? Most young pros in any sport thrive on their natural ability. Look at the best in the NFL, NBA, or even Tour De France: they are more effective at an older age than the young bucks, despite declining ability.

A better bike is a better bike is a better bike. It'll make a weekend warrior faster, and it'll make the best pros better. That has been factually proven to the dismay of many a traditionalist in XCO.



tick_magnet said:


> Let's just assume that you are faster than me so we can get this distraction out of the way. Does that mean you automatically win the bike setup argument? Because by that standard, all those world cup guys are faster than you and yet you are constantly discrediting their setups. I am really confused here about the logical sequence of arguments.
> 
> Ok and.......? I said XC bikes are probably searching for a sweet spot and it may not be a bad thing they are getting longer and slacker. Are you agreeing with me or calling me out? I can't tell.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Think we need a World Cup XC Equipment thread.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

bikeranzin said:


> How many racers are trying to specifically be fast for this race? NMNM seemed critical for so many team selections, but I guess I was expecting a lot of heavy legs for this race as racers were more interested in peaking for the Olympics. Or is my read on this wrong?


I think everybody finished a heavy training block last week. But it was only three weeks and with a bit of rest people should have decent legs this week

But everybody responds to training differently and train in the winter differently. People who were a bit off the pace in May could be front runners now.
women: I think Pauline will be tough to beat 
Men: I will go with Nino


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> correct it really wasn't his forte in hindsight


Actually, there is a comparison to cycling though; F1 fans thought he'd turn up and be able to challenge for wins (because F1 drivers are the best; No, not necessarily) - but he didn't, it's just a completely different discipline.

Similarly, you get road fans who think a road cyclist can just turn up and win any event off road.........(Pidcock/MvdP are exceptions, as they have an off road background).

As for this weekend, could be interesting. Looking at last year World Champs is a good pointer; PF-P & Sarrou won, and may go close here, also. However, it's hard to look past Lecomte; she is the best pure climber, and is also technically good. The only query is whether she still has the same form. I think Neff is starting to regain form - she rode well in Nove Mesto, and has since ridden the Women's TdSuisse - and finished 4th.

As for the men, who knows? Pidcock wasn't doing it, and is recovering from an 'accident', MvdP isn't either, but it looked too hilly for him. Flueckinger is consistent, and was 2nd last year, I wouldn't write off Nino, even though he was miles off last year, and the long climbs should suit Kerschbaumer.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> Not at all. I really have no idea who you are. And other than disqualifying personal attacks against me, it doesn't really matter who I am, either.
> 
> While in recent times it's heartening to see that the best of the best in the cycling world are taking up XCO again, I sure hope that trend continues. We are blessed to have MVDP and Pidcock racing the races that we like.
> 
> ...


I apologize if you felt I personally attacked you. And I appreciate the civility of your tone in your last post.

However, I am trying to understand your point. Ok, I'll grant enduro racers are better bike handlers, on average. Are you saying this means that XC bikes should be more slack than enduro bikes because XC racers need the extra safety barrier? The other thing is enduro is timed on the downhills and the downhills are gnarlier. Time for XC racers matters around the entire loop and the downhills are shorter and more mellow. So it's a different discipline. So what do you mean by "a better bike."?

We know that aero and low rolling resistance matters a lot more more XC than enduro. And making gains in those areas often makes the bike less safe on descends. So a better bike may not be a better bike for all situations. XC tires are great examples of equipment that is not better in all situations. Great riders are faster on them but weekend warriors can get into a lot of trouble. So they are faster but not safer. I would say they have there place but I wouldn't describe them as universally better for everyone everywhere.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

For women, I have a hard time picking against Loana. She has just looked so dominant. I'm pulling for Batten as well. I expect Pauline to be up there too.

For men, I'll go with MVP, Fluckinger and Nino.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> The full extent of reach comes to its natural limit with RAD. Our bodies have certain measurements and within those realms we are most maneuverable and powerful. The biggest and best change in XC bikes is consuming the distance from super-long stems with a longer top tube.


I am not saying that long top tubes and short stems isn't the way to go. I have a medium Epic, it is a good riding bike. I also have a small Oiz that is way shorter and has a much longer stem and it is also an equally good bike. My experience is that top tube and stem length just don't make the difference that you imply. And experience is something that I think you lack.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this. But you don't actually have a lot of experience with different bikes do you? It appears from your posts that you really only have had 2 different bikes in the past six years or so. Have you ever really spent time a lot of time on an Enduro bike? Have you even tested any of these new modern bikes. Don't say your Tall Boy is modern. Their geometry is very conservative by todays standards.

Oh, here is a picture of Jared Graves XC bike from this year:









Bike Check: Jared Graves' Yeti ARC


Jared Graves has taken a sharp focus on the XCO National Championships - and his Yeti ARC looks to be the perfect weapon.




www.ambmag.com.au





Look at that stem!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Renzo7 said:


> I'm rooting for Mathias and Jolanda, especially with LMN's comment regarding rain.
> 
> Wildcards: Christopher Blevins and Haley Batten. I've really liked what I've seen from the Trinity team this season.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


In NMNM I had Blevins as a dark horse and the only reason he finished outside of the Top 12 was cuz he crashed. I wanted to pick him again but I'm also trying to choose other riders.

Remember, Pidcok came out of that program...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Not at all. I really have no idea who you are. And other than disqualifying personal attacks against me, it doesn't really matter who I am, either.
> 
> While in recent times it's heartening to see that the best of the best in the cycling world are taking up XCO again, I sure hope that trend continues. We are blessed to have MVDP and Pidcock racing the races that we like.
> 
> ...


your argument comes unstuck at "traditionalist in XCO". You have seem determined to want to categorise people who don't agree with your black or white world in some sort of ignorant and derogatory way. This is what informs us that you are immature and over inflate your achievements. You also seem to discredit the pro riders who haven't embraced your vision of an XCO bike which is incredibly ignorant as within a few words you attempt to discredit months of equipment testing and chasing the ideal set up for their race rigs. I'm blessed to have had exposure to many of the pro's as they spend a lot of time out in my neck of the woods in the offseason having training camps and equipment testing. Their choice of equipment has nothing to do with tradition and everything to do with science. They chose the kit they have for two reasons:
1) sponsor wants XYZ raced and showcased (the contract) 
2) They have tested it extensively to ensure they can get the maximum gain out of it. (

They ride the smallest possible frame not because their heads are stuck in the sand but because they spent weeks comparing equipment, capturing data and selecting what the numbers show is fastest. Not because they all want to be like Eddie.
They don't want a front center that's too long because it requires more energy to work the bike through the corner. They have measured this, not read it in a catalogue. Their bike sponsor could insist that they ride the size up to send the message that short stems and wide bars are where its at but bike manufacturers want results to go with the pictures. They don't want pictures of pro racers throwing their long tanks into the forest in frustration.

As I stated before when you show me your Olympic gold medal hanging on your LLS XCO bike I'll take you seriously. Since you suggest you know more than the mechanics and the XCO bike racers themselves their technical crew and the engineers from the bike manufacturers it stands to reason that you can put your legs where your mouth is and show us how its done in Tokyo.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> In NMNM I had Blevins as a dark horse and the only reason he finished outside of the Top 12 was cuz he crashed. I wanted to pick him again but I'm also trying to choose other riders.
> 
> Remember, Pidcok came out of that program...


I didn't know that about Pidcock. Pretty interesting!

Not repeating the riders you pick sounds tough! 

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Pidcock and MVDP won't be at Leogang. N1no would have to be a consideration but I suspect its still too early for him to be coming into peak form for the Olympics.
I have a few other picks but I'd essentially only have to swap out MVDP for likely MF or JS.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino is going to ride a new Spark, that's probably extra motivation for him to perform well


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Nino is going to ride a new Spark, that's probably extra motivation for him to perform well


I rode past him doing a photoshoot yesterday. Just glanced but the bike looked more like a trail bike. Could be wrong.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Great interview of Catherine on Pinkbike. There's also a picture of LMN and the baby. Cute kid.



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-catharine-pendrel-on-racing-world-cup-xc-3-months-after-giving-birth-to-her-daughter-dara.html


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> Great interview of Catherine on Pinkbike. There's also a picture of LMN and the baby. Cute kid.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-catharine-pendrel-on-racing-world-cup-xc-3-months-after-giving-birth-to-her-daughter-dara.html


That was a great interview. Thank you for sharing it! 

Catharine is an amazing and inspiring athlete. I had a chance to interact with her on some of those Zwift rides she hosted, and she was awesome.

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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> For women, I have a hard time picking against Loana. She has just looked so dominant. I'm pulling for Batten as well. I expect Pauline to be up there too.
> 
> For men, I'll go with MVP, Fluckinger and Nino.


Loana was strong in last race. She is also my bet. But as I've learned here in the forum, some athletes peak too early and looking at her instagram, she looks like she lost more pounds. I'm not sure if its a good thing or not in cycling.

But as a long time boxing fan, sometimes you have an idea by looking at their physical muscle if a boxer is over or under trained.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

tick_magnet said:


> I apologize if you felt I personally attacked you. And I appreciate the civility of your tone in your last post.
> 
> However, I am trying to understand your point. Ok, I'll grant enduro racers are better bike handlers, on average. Are you saying this means that XC bikes should be more slack than enduro bikes because XC racers need the extra safety barrier? The other thing is enduro is timed on the downhills and the downhills are gnarlier. Time for XC racers matters around the entire loop and the downhills are shorter and more mellow. So it's a different discipline. So what do you mean by "a better bike."?
> 
> We know that aero and low rolling resistance matters a lot more more XC than enduro. And making gains in those areas often makes the bike less safe on descends. So a better bike may not be a better bike for all situations. XC tires are great examples of equipment that is not better in all situations. Great riders are faster on them but weekend warriors can get into a lot of trouble. So they are faster but not safer. I would say they have there place but I wouldn't describe them as universally better for everyone everywhere.


Thanks. Tires, well we have a yearly thread that goes into that. I think what testing has been done shows that semi-slicks are the winner in XCO, but certainly, more tread/less experienced is good.

However generally I have no major complaints about the new wave of bikes. There's a reason for 75* STA, 67.5* HTA, 60mm stems, long enough reach. Things are going the way they should and that I'd hoped they would 3 years ago.

An XC race bike is always going to be lighter but essentially what the pros race, other than tires, you should be able to buy and be just as effective on. This is good for the sport, generally.

I think it's bad for the sport when athletes have bizarre practices that they themselves can't even justify. Like it or not, the fans and amateurs pick up on this and it's The Emperor's New Clothes again and again.

Haley Batten could give Sam Gaze tips on how to set up the new Epic (pro tip: go with the correct size lol) although I believe he's got a different sponsor now, same 130mm stem...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Loana was strong in last race. She is also my bet. But as I've learned here in the forum, some athletes peak too early and looking at her instagram, she looks like she lost more pounds. I'm not sure if its a good thing or not in cycling.
> 
> But as a long time boxing fan, sometimes you have an idea by looking at their physical muscle if a boxer is over or under trained.


shes so young though so she'll lose weight and gain it within a few days and it won't affect her performance. Her form at the start of the season was just a couple of gears higher than the rest. Maybe she is peaking too early but at 21 she can probably maintain that peak far longer than a 28yr old or 32 year old. I'm keeping her in my team . With MVDP out I've got spare cash to burn on a lady so I my ditch my weakest lady and in Lechner or Indergand


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> Oh, here is a picture of Jared Graves XC bike from this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


30mm rear rim, 25mm front.
Dual piston front caliper, 4 piston rear.

Even I'm starting to cringe


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> 30mm rear rim, 25mm front.
> Dual piston front caliper, 4 piston rear.
> 
> Even I'm starting to cringe


I also found that to be quite curious, and not something I'd have willingly put on my bike that way.

On a hardtail, I imagine he's looking for extra volume in the rear tire, but I'd always expect the most powerful set of brakes (when not equal) to be in front.

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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> 30mm rear rim, 25mm front.
> Dual piston front caliper, 4 piston rear.
> 
> Even I'm starting to cringe


"Graves admits that given how steep it is he would happily have the 4-pot front - but overall he likes the strength of the rear brake, while having a front brake that doesn't *bight* [sic] too much."

I highlighted the worst part of the brake description. My guess is that he runs a beefier rear wheel because he's a big guy (which is why it's all the more impressive that he can XC so well). I can imagine the he might make a 25mm carbon rear wheel noodle-y.

Whenever I want to feel small, I'll just look at his strava rides where he's holding 500+w for longer than I could ever hope for.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> My guess is that he runs a beefier rear wheel because he's a big guy (which is why it's all the more impressive that he can XC so well). I can imagine the he might make a 25mm carbon rear wheel noodle-y.


But 2.2" tyres.
Still, I'd put up with a lot for a <9kg XC bike


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

bikeranzin said:


> "Graves admits that given how steep it is he would happily have the 4-pot front - but overall he likes the strength of the rear brake, while having a front brake that doesn't *bight* [sic] too much."
> 
> I highlighted the worst part of the brake description. My guess is that he runs a beefier rear wheel because he's a big guy (which is why it's all the more impressive that he can XC so well). I can imagine the he might make a 25mm carbon rear wheel noodle-y.
> 
> Whenever I want to feel small, I'll just look at his strava rides where he's holding 500+w for longer than I could ever hope for.


I suspect that the bike is built out of spare parts he had. Rather than logic


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I suspect that the bike is built out of spare parts he had. Rather than logic


maybe but I looked into a similar path way with having a wider rear rim and 2.2 tyre to give the tyre a more square profile for added traction while still running the pressure at a reasonable enough level to avoid pinch flats and also not incure the weight penalty of a tyre insert. The interesting outcome of the experiment was how tail happy the bike felt. It was subtle enough to make the bike quite fun. Graves is a lot ore talented than I so he can probably live with that tail happy feeling more than I could - it was fun but tiring. Being an Enduro and DH pro I suspect flicking the tail about is normal way of riding for him 
I've also experimented with a 2.0 on the front and 2.2 on the rear for aero reasons. If suspension is set up correctly the 2.0 is not too harsh.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Brad said:


> your argument comes unstuck at "traditionalist in XCO". You have seem determined to want to categorise people who don't agree with your black or white world in some sort of ignorant and derogatory way. This is what informs us that you are immature and over inflate your achievements. You also seem to discredit the pro riders who haven't embraced your vision of an XCO bike which is incredibly ignorant as within a few words you attempt to discredit months of equipment testing and chasing the ideal set up for their race rigs. I'm blessed to have had exposure to many of the pro's as they spend a lot of time out in my neck of the woods in the offseason having training camps and equipment testing. Their choice of equipment has nothing to do with tradition and everything to do with science. They chose the kit they have for two reasons:
> 1) sponsor wants XYZ raced and showcased (the contract)
> 2) They have tested it extensively to ensure they can get the maximum gain out of it. (


You would have thought it's like this, but it's not always like. 1. is for sure 100% right. Number 2 is well... not so much. I don't have much experience in mtb, but I would dare to say, there's much less money development and also "dedication" or profesionalism (not exactly right words, but English is not my language and unfortunately I can't think of better word describing this right now) then it was in my sport, from which I have plenty of World cup experience (in different roles). While you would think everything is tested and tried to get slightest bit of advantage out, in reality things are much different, and not so much scientific. So I can easily say there's plenty of space for improvement, if someone would really take it professionally and scientifically. 
But that doesn't mean that most of us hobby riders or racers, can be smart about how racers have wrong setups. Regardless of this lack of pure science that could help them more, they still test way more then anyone of us have. First they have more time to do that, they have more support doing that, and they have way more options to test from. Even testing 5 different steams is pretty much mission impossible for hobby rider, not to mention whole other setups. For pro teams, it's no big deal to have half of truck of equipment available to test every bit that's on bike.
So while they could still do way better, I'm pretty sure they have way more optimal setup then any couch expert here (or elsewhere) can't suggest.
Next to that there's one more thing, which some don't really get. In top level pro sport (even if mtb is more of a joke then real pro sport), main point is being fast. It's not about looking good and having perfect technique or setup that some professor calculated in lab or on computer. Human body is not machine and what fits to someone, doesn't fit to other one. That's why "perfect" setup for one can be different then for another. And I'm pretty sure each rider, regadless if they have 50mm steam or 150mm steam, have it because they are fastest with that setup. They might look awkward, but only thing that matters is time, and if this helps them be faster, that's all there is.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> You would have thought it's like this, but it's not always like. 1. is for sure 100% right. Number 2 is well... not so much. I don't have much experience in mtb, but I would dare to say, there's much less money development and also "dedication" or profesionalism (not exactly right words, but English is not my language and unfortunately I can't think of better word describing this right now) then it was in my sport, from which I have plenty of World cup experience (in different roles). While you would think everything is tested and tried to get slightest bit of advantage out, in reality things are much different, and not so much scientific. So I can easily say there's plenty of space for improvement, if someone would really take it professionally and scientifically.


A pet peeve of mine is people making assumptions about things. Unless you are involved in world cup racing you do not really have a clue how much or how little equipment testing is done. XCO racing has both a Pro-team and National team structure. The "science" side is run through national sport federations where people with PHDs are working on it.

The thing about mountain biking is the roll of equipment is both complex and subtle. It isn't like some like XC skiing where equipment is big deal but is relatively easy to test. If the fastest skier picks the wrong skis or wax they are out back. If the best mountain biker picks the wrong bike, they are probably still winning. Pidcock and Leona would have won NM on any bike raced that day. Maybe their gap would have been slightly bigger or slightly smaller but they still would have won by a lot. Equipment choice in XCO plays a small part and it is really hard to decide what is best.

I always come back to the comparison of HT or FS. So many elite racers have tested this over the years and just about always the data is inconclusive. The FS just about always test faster, but at a higher power output. Which creates the questions, is the FS faster because the athlete went harder, or is it faster because it makes it easier the athlete to produce power.

Or consider the years from 2012 - 2016. At that time 99.9% of XC racers would swear that a 29er was the fastest way around an XC course. But there was that 0.1% who were racing small wheels and actually dominating international competition. This doesn't mean that everybody was wrong, it just means that if small wheels were slower the difference was so slight that the best rider in the world could still beat the second best rider in the world. When those few who were racing to small wheels switched to 29ers they still continued to dominate.

Same deal with tires. If you actually do some testing off road you will find that rolling difference between a fast rolling XC tire, and a grippy XC tire is pretty small. Same is true on grip end, if your semi-slick is struggling than a knobby XC tire is also probably struggling (unless we are talking about mud, mud tires in proper mud are amazing).

What is consistent between a sport like XC skiing and XCO is the equipment that the Pros use doesn't always work for amateurs. I am a fairly decent amateur hack at XC skiing. But I cannot ski the same skis that a world cup skier my size and weight. I just don't have the technique or power to make them work. I need a ski that is relatively soft and stable to be able to ski well.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> A pet peeve of mine is people making assumptions about things. Unless you are involved in world cup racing you do not really have a clue how much or how little equipment testing is done. XCO racing has both a Pro-team and National team structure. The "science" side is run through national sport federations where people with PHDs are working on it.
> 
> The thing about mountain biking is the roll of equipment is both complex and subtle. It isn't like some like XC skiing where equipment is big deal but is relatively easy to test. If the fastest skier picks the wrong skis or wax they are out back. If the best mountain biker picks the wrong bike, they are probably still winning. Pidcock and Leona would have won NM on any bike raced that day. Maybe their gap would have been slightly bigger or slightly smaller but they still would have won by a lot. Equipment choice in XCO plays a small part and it is really hard to decide what is best.
> 
> ...


brilliant post and illustrates the issues at hand perfectly.
I felt and had the data to prove that a 27.5 was a faster option for me. Locally 29ers rule and 27.5 XCO options just don't exist. The last 3 years I've been on a 29er that's taken me about 15months to get used to and optimise. 
When the Cannondale boys were in town they were working on optimising the Scalpels suspension. JP spent weeks with the team getting the valving dialed in for each of the 4 riders. They tested tyres and each rider had a preference even for tyre combinations. When you look at the tyres they weren't really that different but the confidence they got from their trust in a specific model was worth more than a few seconds per lap, watts and calorie expenditure.
Primoz says its not very scientific but with the teams I've had contact with there is very much a scientific approach even though the access to resources is limited. Its not F1 level or Ineos Grenadiers level of scientific spend but the bigger teams use their resources wisely on good sports scientists and coaches, good mechanics and technical consultants that they can tap into.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> I think it's bad for the sport when athletes have bizarre practices that they themselves can't even justify. Like it or not, the fans and amateurs pick up on this and it's The Emperor's New Clothes again and again.


I can't speak for your area, but in my area, this just isn't a problem. I've only seen one person running a long negative stem and he is a pro elite racer. If anything, most people around here succumb more to enduro bro setups than elite XC racer setups. I see more people setup their downcountry bikes with short stems, 800mm bars, up forking, and running Maxxis Aggressor's regardless of their body size or proportion. It makes me wonder why they even bother to race XC leaving so much free speed on the table.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> I've also experimented with a 2.0 on the front and 2.2 on the rear for aero reasons. If suspension is set up correctly the 2.0 is not too harsh.


Just curious, what did you find? Were you consistently faster on the narrow vs the wider tires?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> I suspect that the bike is built out of spare parts he had. Rather than logic


It's possible, but if you pay attention to his instagram, Jared comes across as very deliberate about his setup choices. Perhaps it's both? I suppose it's impossible to know.

He does support your main thesis that the vast majority of success in XCO can be attributed to the rider and not the bike. Assuming I'm paraphrasing you properly.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Scott dropped their new spark rc. 120mm front and rear, integrated suspension, LLSS treatment, hta adjustment, 2 bottle cages, fits up to 40T chainring and only 1870 grams with shock. I'm actually kind of sad it didn't come out last year when I was looking.

I'm wondering if Nino will break out the 40T at the next race, he seems to like gigantic chainrings. 

I'm also wondering how Kate Courtney will do. It seems like the other guys have been racing similar setups for a while based on interviews, but seems like a big change in equipment for her right before the Olympics.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Well LMN, it appears that you don't disagree with the facts, you just disagree with my right to be the one speaking them.

You should be aware by now that I raced pro for a couple of years. Did you yourself ever line up with Geoff Kabush? I'm going to ask you for the last time not to take this personally because I'm not going to be questioned about my experience any more. It's my thesis that this snob appeal has held the sport of XCO back until recently, whereas other categories of mountain bike racing have not been subject to a suffocating lack of progress.

I started racing with a first-edition Cannondale Scalpel with 26" wheels. I also tried a 27.5 front wheel with this after seeing Jeremiah Bishop do it. I'm fine with smaller riders going with 27.5 although I'd question whether you really understand taller racers, which is unfortunate because there's been some great ones.

It would be a little self-indulgent for us to list all our bikes, but I've owned a Trek Fuel EX, 130mm travel with 2.6" tires. Actually this trail bike gave me the idea to question XC bike geometry. I rode lift-assisted downhill parks in Colorado as well as completing the Breck Epic 6-day stage race. I've raced all over the USA, including El Paso in the great state of Texas which has taller mountains than Vancouver 

The Tallboy 3 is essentially a modern XC race bike if you upsize it, which I did, so I don't see your point. I see angles and specs, not brands, and besides a slacker STA which can be corrected by sliding the saddle forward, it's essentially a match for the brand-new Blur TR.



LMN said:


> I am not saying that long top tubes and short stems isn't the way to go. I have a medium Epic, it is a good riding bike. I also have a small Oiz that is way shorter and has a much longer stem and it is also an equally good bike. My experience is that top tube and stem length just don't make the difference that you imply. And experience is something that I think you lack.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this. But you don't actually have a lot of experience with different bikes do you? It appears from your posts that you really only have had 2 different bikes in the past six years or so. Have you ever really spent time a lot of time on an Enduro bike? Have you even tested any of these new modern bikes. Don't say your Tall Boy is modern. Their geometry is very conservative by todays standards.
> 
> ...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

wrong thread


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Wow, what a bold bike, more than I could've hoped for! 501mm max reach, 120 front/rear. Welcome to the party Scott!

And a hidden shock, perhaps some of this UFO technology we've been hearing about 









2022 Scott Spark gets Bold new redesign as a slack, fast, fully-integrated 120mm XC bike


The all-new 2022 Scott Spark XC bike gets a complete integrated redesign with Bold 120mm hidden shock, integrated routing & trail models...




bikerumor.com







Ksanman said:


> Scott dropped their new spark rc. 120mm front and rear, integrated suspension, LLSS treatment, hta adjustment, 2 bottle cages, fits up to 40T chainring and only 1870 grams with shock. I'm actually kind of sad it didn't come out last year when I was looking.
> 
> I'm wondering if Nino will break out the 40T at the next race, he seems to like gigantic chainrings.
> 
> I'm also wondering how Kate Courtney will do. It seems like the other guys have been racing similar setups for a while based on interviews, but seems like a big change in equipment for her right before the Olympics.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Well LMN, it appears that you don't disagree with the facts, you just disagree with my right to be the one speaking them. You should be aware by now that I raced pro for a couple of years. Did you yourself ever line up with Geoff Kabush? I'm going to ask you for the last time not to take this personally because I'm not going to be questioned about my experience any more. It's my thesis that this snob appeal has held the sport of XCO back until recently, whereas other categories of mountain bike racing have not been subject to a suffocating lack of progress.


Geoff and I were in first engineering together. I have been on the start line with him more times than I can count. I have done week long training camps with him. When I go to Squamish I stay at his place. Last time I rode with him was this fall. But lining up beside someone is absolutely meaningless is regards to experience. And let's be realistic although we started at the same time as him, neither of us were any where near him for the rest of the race.

I see you avoided my earlier questions about your experience level.

Have you actually ridden one of these modern geometry bikes? Your tall boy just happens to be your size and actually having seen a picture of you on it I think it is still to small for you.

How about an enduro bike. Have you really let a long and slack bike rip on a nice long descent. Have you ridden them on tight slow trails and felt how much they struggle?

People with actual experience know that small changes in reach or stem or head angle really don't make that much a difference. Doesn't mean that they aren't improvements but they are marginal gains.

I agree that it is super hard for a tall rider to find a bike to fit them. But the challenges you have do not extend to the rest of us. But that being said, my neighbour is 6 5' he uses a 120mm on his Element and absolutely shreds. I regularly ride with some of the best XC and enduro riders in the world so my bar for shreds is pretty darn high.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

This autumn I bought a Spec Carve, from 2015 I think. I bought it dirt cheap, for salty winter rides. Quick release, HA...I don't know, 71.5, more?

Tried it on a local course that hosts a relatively difficult C1 race I am a regular on and I expected brown shorts at the bottom of the descents, I was pleasantly surprised I managed almost same speed/security as my Trance 29, Anthem 29 and NS eccentric (65HA). I will probably even race on it as it is a pretty light frame as I stripped the paint down.

Bottom line, for me bike factor is miniscule compared to work and family and stress exhaustion when I sit on the bike. On my good day any bike I take is my bike of choice. On my poor day I hate any bike I am on.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

LMN said:


> A pet peeve of mine is people making assumptions about things. Unless you are involved in world cup racing you do not really have a clue how much or how little equipment testing is done. XCO racing has both a Pro-team and National team structure. The "science" side is run through national sport federations where people with PHDs are working on it.


I meant it much more general then mtb specific, but it fits mtb too. I might not be involved in mtb, but have still enough friends and connections that I know at least a thing or two. My main point was, iun sports like XC mtb (or xc skiing and similar sports). things are way less scientific then people might hope for or that people might think they are. I have enough experience in top level sport to be pretty confident claiming this.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> I meant it much more general then mtb specific, but it fits mtb too. I might not be involved in mtb, but have still enough friends and connections that I know at least a thing or two. My main point was, iun sports like XC mtb (or xc skiing and similar sports). things are way less scientific then people might hope for or that people might think they are. I have enough experience in top level sport to be pretty confident claiming this.


I agree with you there.

sport science is a new field. How to effectively use it is a work in progress


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

According to this Pinkbike article Tom Pidcock broke his collarbone into five pieces in that crash but 6 days later is already back riding outdoors!



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tom-pidcock-breaks-collar-bone-in-training-crash.html



I know it's "Pro" to come back from major injuries extremely quickly but having had plenty of extended practice as a hospital in-patient ??? I'm not sure how good an idea that is.

Leaving aside falling off there's no way the pieces of bone are going to be knitting together at this point so there's the potential for bone non union, infection, screws in the massive plate holding the collarbone together coming loose etc causing more issues as a result of starting riding too early before it has healed.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Leaving aside falling off there's no way the pieces of bone are going to be knitting together at this point so there's the potential for bone non union, infection, screws in the massive plate holding the collarbone together coming loose etc causing more issues as a result of starting riding too early before it has healed.


Pro's always do the right thing...

Right?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Pro's always do the right thing...
> 
> Right?


The next news article up on Pinkbike:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/brendan-fairclough-has-hand-infection-due-to-splinter-situation-that-escalated-poorly.html



.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> Just curious, what did you find? Were you consistently faster on the narrow vs the wider tires?


no real difference. The narrow tyre on he wider rim felt more edgey so when you leaning into a corner it would feel hesitant and then sort of snap into line. I ha to drop the pressures to get it working but then you really start to feel the tyre drag. Over many runs I didn't find a significant difference.
The wider tyre on a wider rim does give me more confidence but it also requires more power to keep it at the same speed.
There is definitely more cushioning so more comfort but also less feel through the bars. But the stop watch did't lie. The data was more affected by trail conditions on the day and my day to varying levels of confidence and fatigue


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Pro's always do the right thing...
> Right?


Well most of time yes. But you need to look at this from different angle. Noone cares about consequences that this might bring in long run. If this means you might have problems because of such decision in 20 years, so be it. If this will help you reach your goals in month or two time, you suffer a bit, do something what normal people wouldn't and you might get through and win gold. If you will play safe, like normal people would, you have less then zero chances for that gold. This way you still have at least some, and let's face it... that gold is all that matters in mind of pro athlete. Health after 20 years is last thing they think about, no matter how ridiculous this might sound to some of you.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

primoz said:


> Well most of time yes. But you need to look at this from different angle. Noone cares about consequences that this might bring in long run. If this means you might have problems because of such decision in 20 years, so be it. If this will help you reach your goals in month or two time, you suffer a bit, do something what normal people wouldn't and you might get through and win gold. If you will play safe, like normal people would, you have less then zero chances for that gold. This way you still have at least some, and let's face it... that gold is all that matters in mind of pro athlete. Health after 20 years is last thing they think about, no matter how ridiculous this might sound to some of you.


especially at the tender age of 21yrs (a month shy of 22). who thinks with their head at this age or considers long term consequences. Long term at 21 is next week


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Isn’t that why you have coaches and trainers?

I get it, but also, shouldn’t there be an adult in the room saying: hit the Zwift for a week to give a few extra days for healing?

it may not be “don’t train and zero poss. of gold.” It could also be: do train...doesn’t heal properly, miss out on gold...and the rest of 2021...and lingering problems.

I’m not saying this is the case, but 6 days is awfully quick.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It is super quick to be back out and not really necessary either.

After an injury like that you should take a week or so of very light training to let your body focus on healing and then punch out some big miles on the trainer for two week. Trainers aren't really that bad, particularly with Zwift.

But out right now the only thing holding that collar bone together is bolts screws. Hit a pot hole or have an incident with an animal or car and things can get really bad, really quickly.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Pro's always do the right thing...
> 
> Right?


Pro's decisions exist in a quantum state which you and I couldn't possibly begin to understand. This allows them to be right no matter what they decide.

For instance when Nino chose to race a 27.5 hardtail with 2.1" tubulars: This lighter, more nimble setup allowed him to take advantage of his superior handling skills. There is a quantum state in which he actually won the gold medal.

Seriously, I'd say the new Spark is the coup de gras to this kind of blinkered thinking. Shout out to the bike industry, which gets called a conspiracy instead of giving credit to the hard-working people in engineering that actually do the testing on new bikes. We can't control what weird setups the athletes choose, but I do believe they're all finally getting it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Pro's decisions exist in a quantum state which you and I couldn't possibly begin to understand. This allows them to be right no matter what they decide.
> 
> For instance when Nino chose to race a 27.5 hardtail with 2.1" tubulars: This lighter, more nimble setup allowed him to take advantage of his superior handling skills. There is a quantum state in which he actually won the gold medal.


You realize if Nino had just kept a bit to the left in the last turn he would have won that gold medal. I was right there, I watched him open the door and let Kulhavy take the inside line.

And the fact that he lost the sprint for the gold to a rider on a completely different bike due a tactical error should tell you that there are many ways a fast XC bike can be designed.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

@LMN, You are running a racing team and you"ve been riding with top xco/enduro athletes. Right?

Just some curious questions:

1. Does bike fitting exists on these athletes? Or they just ride whatever size they are comfortable to race with?

2. Are they using the "actual" race bike for training? Or replica?

3. Are the athletes in charge of the technical specs, settings, etc.. Or there is some sort of technical guy for this?

4. Removing the athlete to the equation. What do you think is the best bike in terms of specs, geo, components, etc.. to win this 2021 xco?

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I was a Kulhavy fan at the time, but history tells a different story. Jaro should've never been in that position to begin with. On a better bike Nino, and possibly others would've ridden away from him. As jacked up as Kulhavy's bike setup was, it was better than his top-5 competition. That's how bad it was. I think deep down you know this.



LMN said:


> You realize if Nino had just kept a bit to the left in the last turn he would have won that gold medal. I was right there, I watched him open the door and let Kulhavy take the inside line.
> 
> And the fact that he lost the sprint for the gold to a rider on a completely different bike due a tactical error should tell you that there are many ways a fast XC bike can be designed.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

gat3keeper said:


> @LMN, You are running a racing team and you"ve been riding with top xco/enduro athletes. Right?
> 
> Just some curious questions:
> 
> ...


1. Absolutely bike fitting and testing exists. You just need to watch the videos the Rocky Enduro team puts out have a small taste of the amount of testing that goes on. I work with one of the athletes on that team and am constantly adjusting their training around testing.

For XC the right size of bike is usually pretty clear. But some riders are in between two sizes. In that case before ordering bikes a rider will usually test either size. Most of the time both sizes work equally well.

2. Here in BC during the winter riders have a training bike they use. Their training bike tends to be a bit more of a trail bike. The stems are shorter bars are wider, tires are wider, a bit more suspension travel, ect.. Enduro racers/DH go the other way, their training bikes are a bit less DH oriented. Once race season hits and new race bikes arrive the training bikes are put away.

Riders on big teams may have a race only bike. But usually during the season most race and train on the same bike.
w
3. The bike spec is governed by sponsors. They can choose within their sponsors (tires, chain ring size, fork travel, ect).

4. This weekend, I think you want a light bike with a good set of mud-tires. But everything else really depends on the rider and their own skill set. The very best riders are going to descend super fast on traditional hardtails with straight posts. Others are going to need a bit of help from their bike to keep in touch. But it is the rider who will make the difference.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> I was a Kulhavy fan at the time, but history tells a different story. Jaro should've never been in that position to begin with. On a better bike Nino, and possibly others would've ridden away from him. As jacked up as Kulhavy's bike setup was, it was better than his top-5 competition. That's how bad it was. I think deep down you know this.


What everybody forgets about Kulhavy is that he won the last world cup of 2010 season on a 26inch bike. His dominance in 2011, and to a lesser extent in 2012 was do to him being the best rider in the world. It had nothing to do with equipment.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

LMN said:


> 2. Here in BC during the winter riders have a training bike they use. Their training bike tends to be a bit more of a trail bike. The stems are shorter bars are wider, tires are wider, a bit more suspension travel, ect.. Enduro racers/DH go the other way, their training bikes are a bit less DH oriented. Once race season hits and new race bikes arrive the training bikes are put away.


Following up on this: do you find that the racers want a different set up upon their return from winter. For example: will an XC guy come back in April (or whenever) and want a wider tire or shorter stem/wider bar (b/c that's what they're used to in training)...and then work their way back to the XC set up? Or is it simply: fun time is over...back to work on the race bike.

Do you think there's any correlation btwn their off season training bike use and the recent evolution of XC bikes to "downcountry" type geo?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

LMN said:


> What everybody forgets about Kulhavy is that he won the last world cup of 2010 season on a 26inch bike. His dominance in 2011, and to a lesser extent in 2012 was do to him being the best rider in the world. It had nothing to do with equipment.


Come on&#8230;. while North Americans are much maligned overseas, Windham is their chance to shine. Kabush once won this race. Kulhavy did win fair and square by 14 seconds over Schurter , but look at all the competitors that flatted. Brings me back to a time when tires were paper-thin.

Nino won the 2010 World Cup also-why the 1-2 year gap in his dominance, then?





__





Windham World Cup 2010: The Men's XC Mix


VIDEO: Flat tires stifled the momentum of almost every North American hopeful at the first World Cup in the United States in five years. Mishaps didn't slow Windham World Cup winner Jaroslav Kulhavy, however.




www.velonews.com





Actually, It took a couple of years for the rest of the field to catch up to Specialized and their new Epic, but once they did it was over.

I'd wager that was MVDP riding the new Spark, it'd be curtains for the competition. Unless Canyon comes out with a new Lux soon, everyone still has a chance 

"Americans looking to do well on home soil were foiled instead by home rocks - Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski (Subaru-Trek), Todd Wells (Specialized Factory Racing) and Adam Craig (Rabobank-Giant) each flatted at some point in the race. And Canadian Geoff Kabush (Maxxis-Rocky Mountain) DNF'd after a tearing off his rear mech.
Meanwhile, even the world's best weren't immune to flats, as Julien Absalon (Orbea) and Burry Stander (Specialized Factory Racing) were slowed by tire issues."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> I'd wager that was MVDP riding the new Spark, it'd be curtains for the competition. Unless Canyon comes out with a new Lux soon, everyone still has a chance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why would you say this? I'm not saying that MVDP isn't amazing, but there have certainly been guys in XCO that have left him. It's not like he lined up and cleaned up in every single race...and it's not b/c of the bike.

I do agree that a new Lux is needed.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

smartyiak said:


> Following up on this: do you find that the racers want a different set up upon their return from winter. For example: will an XC guy come back in April (or whenever) and want a wider tire or shorter stem/wider bar (b/c that's what they're used to in training)...and then work their way back to the XC set up? Or is it simply: fun time is over...back to work on the race bike.
> 
> Do you think there's any correlation btwn their off season training bike use and the recent evolution of XC bikes to "downcountry" type geo?


Sometimes things from their winter bike go to their race bike. Droppers are an example of this, after using them all winter some are like "you can take my dropper from my cold dead hand". Others, hit April 1st put the straight post on and leave it on for the year.

the "down country" bike is a standard BC XC bike. Has been that way for a long time. Back in 2012 my XC bike was a 120 bike with a 67 HA.

But I think the evolution of XC bikes is about making the XC bike relevant as a bike again. I don't know what it is like where you are based but here for longest time the only people riding XC bikes were high level XC racers. Those old school XC bikes are really hard to ride, they are fast for the rider with appropriate skill set but they are very unforgiving.

And sport evolves as more knowledge and more experience in acquired. Even old sports change. If you follow XC skiing, classic technique and equipment has changed dramatically.

I guess my opinion is that these new bikes are really good. And when you replace your old bike you are going to be happy. But if you think the new bike is going to be faster, you got sucker by marketing.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I guess I see MVDP as the new Jaroslav Kulhavy. Everyone knows that they have the most watts in the field. There's some differences, for one thing Jaro seemed to have better tactics, whereas MVDP is known for just taking off and trying to out sprint everyone.

Deflection is a hell of a slug, to paraphrase Rick James. Deflection vs stiffness, weight, and skill has been far under-valued by World Cup teams, I think that's apparent up until now (praise be).

A bike like the new Spark has got it all, at least, everything I've thought of up to this point that could be good for an XCO race bike. Somebody suggested electronic lockout controls, which would be simpler in the heat of battle, but to be able to have a trail bike downhill and a rigid bike uphill on those dirt roads they have a lot of in XCO course, plus a lean XC bike in the middle chum pedaling sections, sounds like the perfect bike for a guy who knows he can put out the watts.



smartyiak said:


> Why would you say this? I'm not saying that MVDP isn't amazing, but there have certainly been guys in XCO that have left him. It's not like he lined up and cleaned up in every single race...and it's not b/c of the bike.
> 
> I do agree that a new Lux is needed.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

LMN said:


> But I think the evolution of XC bikes is about making the XC bike relevant as a bike again. I don't know what it is like where you are based but here for longest time the only people riding XC bikes were high level XC racers. Those old school XC bikes are really hard to ride, they are fast for the rider with appropriate skill set but they are very unforgiving.


Totally off topic, but I've wondered if this was the real reason for downcountry bikes. Where I live is flattish with lots of rolling hills...rocks/roots. I never wanted a XC race bike for the exact reason you said. But "downcountry" bikes are REALLY appealing to me.

I've often thought: did bike companies do this b/c XC bikes aren't selling so well...so: "let's change it up with this 120/120 bike...but everyone wants to be "pro" so we'll call it our new XC bike: we sell more, people get the bike they actually need...and they still feel "pro" when they buy it." And the marketing guy replied: BRILLIANT!!!!!!


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

LMN said:


> I guess my opinion is that these new bikes are really good. And when you replace your old bike you are going to be happy. But if you think the new bike is going to be faster, you got sucker by marketing.


That's how I'm reading the landscape too. Down country bikes seem to be selling really well and two of my local Specialized dealers stock more Epic Evos than Stumpjumpers now. I also follow that Epic Evo thread in the Specialized forum and it's amazing to me how many people are buying this bike to be a trail bike. From a bike selling perspective, these bikes seem like winners.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Come on&#8230;. while North Americans are much maligned overseas, Windham is their chance to shine. Kabush once won this race. Kulhavy did win fair and square by 14 seconds over Schurter , but look at all the competitors that flatted. Brings me back to a time when tires were paper-thin.
> 
> Nino won the 2010 World Cup also-why the 1-2 year gap in his dominance, then?
> 
> ...


Good luck with you racing.

I hope when you get one of these new bikes it is everything you think they are. I look forward to your ride reports.

Keith


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> That's how I'm reading the landscape too. Down country bikes seem to be selling really well and two of my local Specialized dealers stock more Epic Evos than Stumpjumpers now. I also follow that Epic Evo thread in the Specialized forum and it's amazing to me how many people are buying this bike to be a trail bike. From a bike selling perspective, these bikes seem like winners.


This makes TOTAL sense to me. A Stumpy is too much bike to lug around where I live...and an XC race bike is a lot of work sometimes...so: downcountry. And I can throw on a set of light XC wheels/tires and hit the lockout for my 2-4 races per year...and a heavier set with cushcore and pretend I'm Richie Rude the rest of the time.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

By all means, bring the fastest bike to the Olympics. If you have the guts to bring a hardtail, or even the best bike from the last Olympics, so be it. I believe in facts and testing. And as we say in IT, if your QA doesn't find any bugs, it doesn't mean the developers did a great job...

In other words, if you can't test distinct differences in bikes, there's something deficient with your testing, not that there's no differences.

If I'm skeptical, more often it's on the side of the coaches and athletes who go by effort and feel, rather than the much-maligned engineering teams at bike companies that work with CAD and do the actual testing of bikes.

Here's a test where the downcountry bike loses, or does it? For one thing, this is exactly the same model of bike, so we've got a good comparison point. Secondly, the downcountry model is much heavier and has much slower tires. It's considerably faster on the downhills. Both of the riders may not be the best in the world but they are former pros.

If you can have a bike that's faster downhill, but not slower elsewhere, you are therefore faster.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> By all means, bring the fastest bike to the Olympics. If you have the guts to bring a hardtail, or even the best bike from the last Olympics, so be it. I believe in facts and testing. And as we say in IT, if your QA doesn't find any bugs, it doesn't mean the developers did a great job...
> 
> In other words, if you can't test distinct differences in bikes, there's something deficient with your testing, not that there's no differences.
> 
> ...


The slower tires on the downcountry bikes might be because you can't separate tire choices from bike geometry. I can probably get away with running a Renegade as a front tire on an old skool geometry bike with a long stem that puts a lot of weight on the front but not on a quasi-trail like bike with less weight on the front. A buddy of my has an intense sniper and an old school hardtail and he often complains about front end washouts on the Sniper even with Ground Controls. But on his hardtail, he runs semi slicks and often chooses to race that on the tighter tracks. I think testing can be really complicated especially as you get into the marginal gains when treatment effects become increasingly harder to detect and nuisance factors become more important. I can't even imagine the small nuisances that some of these elite level pros are trying to detect - even small differences in frame flex matters to them whereas as the rest of us might not even notice.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> I'd wager that was MVDP riding the new Spark, it'd be curtains for the competition. Unless Canyon comes out with a new Lux soon, everyone still has a chance


This post is absurd. In this and past few years we have have had so many variances in different winners on different bikes, that your "bike makes the winner" theory is field proven as false.

And claiming that somehow Lux was to be blamed for MvdP not winning first two XCO races (while he won both short tracks on the same bike) is....well, my english struggles to find a non offensive word.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Never said the bike makes the winner. But those of you so anti-bike technology, maybe you should take up running instead? Because the bike, without a doubt, makes a measurable difference in one's performance.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Sometimes things from their winter bike go to their race bike. Droppers are an example of this, after using them all winter some are like "you can take my dropper from my cold dead hand". Others, hit April 1st put the straight post on and leave it on for the year.
> 
> the "down country" bike is a standard BC XC bike. Has been that way for a long time. Back in 2012 my XC bike was a 120 bike with a 67 HA.
> 
> ...


Back in 2007 had a Cannondale Rush which was a 110mm travel bike front and rear. Raced XCO, absa Cape Epic and many other marathons and XCO on that bike. It was pretty slack for the time (69 degree head angle 73,5 degree seat tube. 
I thought it was fast and made me faster, turns out it was my coach...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Never said the bike makes the winner. But those of you so anti-bike technology, maybe you should take up running instead? Because the bike, without a doubt, makes a measurable difference in one's performance.


well without it you wouldn't be cycling would you....


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Never said the bike makes the winner. But those of you so anti-bike technology, maybe you should take up running instead? Because the bike, without a doubt, makes a measurable difference in one's performance.


Not to speak for Goran, but I don't think he saying "bike doesn't make a difference." Obviously, even MVDP can't win a XCO race on a Privateer 161 or SC V10; but I doubt there's a huge difference (performance wise) between Nino's RC, Mathias' Thomus, Avancini's Scalpel, Neff's SuperC, Sarrou's Speshy, andonandon. Any one of those folks can win on the others model.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Never said the bike makes the winner. But those of you so anti-bike technology, maybe you should take up running instead? Because the bike, without a doubt, makes a measurable difference in one's performance.


Yes you did. You said that If MvdP would rode the new Spark, it would curtains for the opposition.

E-bike would not help MvdP beat Pidcock in Nove Mesto. There is nothing wrong with the Lux, Scalpel, Fourstoke, Oiz or Spark. Put Pidcock on any of them, he would won. Put MvdP on new Spark, he would have lost.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Before we go there, I want to say I'm sorry that it's come to this, eBikes I meant. I don't like to see this resounding defeat of top-level athletes any more than you do:





Perhaps I was being a fan but yes, I do believe that if MVDP rides a better bike, he will be virtually unbeatable.

And I don't think anybody means bikes outside the XC realm. But yes, old XC races bikes vs new XC race bikes, there is a definite advantage. Or maybe I'm wrong and they're slower. Either way there is a difference, and it's provable.

Again I think some of you guys should take up barefoot running instead, because this is getting rather silly. I'm totally correct and have tons of facts to prove it (not that I think it's that extreme of a position).



Goran_injo said:


> Yes you did. You said that If MvdP would rode the new Spark, it would curtains for the opposition.
> 
> E-bike would not help MvdP beat Pidcock in Nove Mesto. There is nothing wrong with the Lux, Scalpel, Fourstoke, Oiz or Spark. Put Pidcock on any of them, he would won. Put MvdP on new Spark, he would have lost.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Well, let's look at the bikes in pro motocross. This is a sport that is pretty much 100% bike handling so you can eliminate all the nuisance factors like watts, training block, aero, rolling resistance, etc. Even in this sport, the personalities of each bike can be very different. Take Suzukis - long known for being great at cornering but shaky at high speed (analogous to old school XC bike geometry). Kawasakis tend to be good at high speeds but require rear steering techniques to get around corners fast (analogous to new school). And then you have Honda, Yamaha and KTM which all have their own personalities. Every single of these bikes have won multiple national and world championships over the last 20-30 years. When guys switch brands, they usually do have to do lots of testing to make the bikes work for them but once they get the bikes dialed and adjust their riding technique to suit the bike, they end up winning regardless of brand.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

please share your proof as we wait with waited breath


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

It is getting silly. MvdP trashed everybody using Lux. Pidcock trashed everybody using a "no name" bike. Koretzky trashed everybody using a HT.

At that level it is a level field, everybody has top gear, and bikes don't matter. 

At my level, even worse, one week of less work, or kids at grandma's make more difference for me than an alu vs carbon bike.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I really find this thread informative and entertaining at the same time. I like the debates like this. I'm learning.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

This is just a wild guess but I suspect part of the differences in opinions is based on our own experiences and fears about bad outcomes on a bike. Take chomxxo and I. I recall him saying a while back in some other thread that he sets up or prefers bikes (forgot the exact way he put it) that prevent him from going over the bars. So not going over the bars is a priority for him which aligns with the preference for LLS. On the other hand, I grew up riding Suzukis. Those bikes ride like stinkbugs and would automatically start head shaking at high speed if you didn't actively compensate with proper body position. Because I learned to avoid endos riding those things, pretty much anything else felt stable including every single mountain bike i've ever ridden. So going over the bars is not even a concern for me. However, that Suzuki cornered very well and to this day, if I lose front end grip on my mountain bike, it's game over for me because my confidence is shot. So I prefer a more front biased steeper geometry.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I think bikes in WC are becoming standardized to the point that the biggest x-factor is the rider.

It's like this, if we want to race professionally, these are almost the non-negotiable parts/items:

Wheel Size = 29
Frame = Carbon
Rims = Carbon
Handlebar = Carbon
Groupset = the lightest of Shimano / Sram
AVG total weight = 9-10 kilos I guess? 

So yeah, I think any minor adjustments/difference on these bikes have marginal lost/gain (as what LMN pointing out if I'm not mistaken). Unless we change something super obvious like 100mm to 140mm fork. So here's my thought, If Loana and Haley will exchange bikes, same results 'most likely'. But if Loana will use 27.5 Alu and Haley on her 29 carbon, the results may differ. Isn't it?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

There's some truth spoken in the last two posts. Yes I believe we are getting closer to standardization in bikes. After the Spark, like I said I'm out of ideas, I got what I wanted. Scott even mentions "marginal gains" in its new product video. If you picked up racing in the last few years, you might wonder what's the big deal?

Secondly as for me, with the Kulhavy fit and being on the taller side, endos were a definite concern; I think we've covered the injury risk pretty thoroughly. With newer bikes, a smaller rider might be concerned they're getting too heavy as this affects their watts/kg more thoroughly, and what's the big deal?

What I think makes older XC bikes slower is the forward weight bias and the lack of respect for the power of deflection (terrain), but most of us get the second part. Downhillers steer from the rear of the suspension, whereas XC racers handle from the front of the bike. In downhills this can be compensated for by going over the back of the saddle, but in downhill corners there's not much you can do about it, you just have to grip the brakes and grit it through. You saw MVDP doing this a lot recently.

I hate to bring in the car metaphor but if you look at the most modern sports cars, all of the wheels are to the edges of the frame as much as possible. In the 1960s you'll see long hoods and trunks with shorter wheelbases, as they thought this quick steering was faster--same thing applies in old vs new XC bikes. Sure it's faster in slow corners like switchbacks, but not when you're going fast. The last thing engineers could do to make the Corvette better was make it a mid-engined car, even if that removed the classic sexiness of the vehicle.

Really the pros should know this to be true more than the amateurs, and in every other division of mountain bike racing, they do. But most of all, let's not pretend that there's not a testable difference between bikes, because there is. A downcountry bike is faster downhill. Tame that suspension slop and make it lighter, and you have yourself a winning bike.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Just can’t wait to see who wins this weekend cuz it’s obviously all about what bike they’re on. Too funny.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Just can't wait to see who wins this weekend cuz it's obviously all about what bike they're on. Too funny.


<comic sans on>if its dry its a Scott Spark day because you know the HA is just a game changer in the downs. If it was 0.176 degree steeper it would be a loser.
If its wet then its going to be the widest bar that nabs it <comicsans off>


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

Wow.

There's A LOT of endless bike arguments here. I thought this was the WC thread?

Maybe we move the pointless arguing about unmeasurable marginal nothings to another thread please?

It is rather staggering how many seemingly intelligent people think WC races are decided by bike choice. These races are won by the fittest, most skilled and best prepared athlete. Every time.

A clear example being Pidcock. He is, in modern times the fittest rider to ever race a WC. That's based on W/kg. As it's understood he's hit 6.7w/kg+ for close to 40mins. Staggeringly high fitness. Combine this with his incredible talent. He was always going to win. He would have won on ANY reasonably modern bike. Any of them.

So, while you're debating the inner rim dimensions of your next race wheel mistakenly believing it will have any impact on your race result, Tom is doing 30hr training weeks.

Training makes you faster....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Ketzal said:


> So, while you're debating the inner rim dimensions of your next race wheel mistakenly believing it will have any impact on your race result, Tom is doing 30hr training weeks.


On a road bike.

Oh, he also tested a few MTB wheelsets to see what was fastest.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm sure bike does make change, and better or worse bike would make difference, if difference between first and second place would be 1 or 2 sec. In Nove Mesto, if I remember right, difference between first and second was 1 minute, and Pidcock wasn't pushing super hard all the way to finish, so most likely gap would be even bigger. In my opinion, only bike that would matter for MVDP in that case would be unlocked e-mtb. I don't think there's any non-motor driven bike on world at the moment, on which MVDP would gain 1 minute or more against Pidcock in that race.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The course was spicy yesterday! Heavy rain overnight made the descents super slippery. It was struggle city out there. 

What makes things challenging is although the descents are super challenging they are a very small part of the lap time. In training with the descents being super slow the total descending time was 3 minutes per lap. Rider were really struggling with how much to invest on the descents, there just isn't that much time to be made on them.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ketzal said:


> Training makes you faster....


Mountain biking has an odd culture. We will spend thousands of dollars on equipment that probably makes zero difference in our race performance but few would hundreds to hire a good skills instructor to work with. And let us face it $500 in skills coaching is going to make a way bigger difference than $5000 in fancy parts.

I think that is one of the biggest difference between Pros and Amateurs in this sports. The Pros are focus on what they can do to be come better riders, Amateurs are focus on what they can buy to become a better rider.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

LMN said:


> I think that is one of the biggest difference between Pros and Amateurs in this sports. The Pros are focus on what they can do to be come better riders, Amateurs are focus on what they can buy to become a better rider.


It is easier to buy 100g lighter wheelset, then losing 5kg of beer belly  Not to mention fancy wheelset is seen far better when being on after ride beer, then slightly slimmer rider's profile


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> Rider were really struggling with how much to invest on the descents, there just isn't that much time to be made on them.


I guess you are referring to tire choice for the race (mud versus semi-slick)?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

primoz said:


> It is easier to buy 100g lighter wheelset, then losing 5kg of beer belly  Not to mention fancy wheelset is seen far better when being on after ride beer, then slightly slimmer rider's profile


Also longer reach and wider bars hides the beer belly more effectively


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Mountain biking has an odd culture. We will spend thousands of dollars on equipment that probably makes zero difference in our race performance but few would hundreds to hire a good skills instructor to work with. And let us face it $500 in skills coaching is going to make a way bigger difference than $5000 in fancy parts.
> 
> I think that is one of the biggest difference between Pros and Amateurs in this sports. The Pros are focus on what they can do to be come better riders, Amateurs are focus on what they can buy to become a better rider.


Fixing this for you  
"Amateurs are focused on what they can buy to make others think they the better rider."


----------



## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Saw a story on PFP's instagram yesterday riding part of the course, looked like a rooty, muddy slip-n-slide. Glad I don't have to ride it


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

primoz said:


> It is easier to buy 100g lighter wheelset, then losing 5kg of beer belly  Not to mention fancy wheelset is seen far better when being on after ride beer, then slightly slimmer rider's profile


Hey! Don't mess with my beers!!! I have a friend/training partner who's a coach (USA Cycling Certified, UCI Certified, yada yada yada Certified ,etc.) and says I have a ton of qualities that would make me a top rider, but after a long discussion, my closing argument is I'm 44 and not quitting beer. Now he brings beers every other weekend for our BBQ grilling afternoons!!!

But it is also true that people buy **** that they think makes them faster without actually training or putting an effort just to be better. Latest craze around my area? Oval chainrings and oversized pulleys...


----------



## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Anyone know why Avancini isn't racing this weekend?


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Ksanman said:


> Anyone know why Avancini isn't racing this weekend?


B/c he's on my fantasy team. 😐


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Lecomte! Another win. 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Woah, Lecomte is just dominating the women field. They are gonna have trouble against her tomorrow.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Poor Nino... Damn!

Scott team should take a look at their pedals and shoes. It may be coincidence or what, Kate had issue with her clipless as well few races back. It cost them poor start specially Nino. 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

The new scott bike isn't working, it made Nino almost finish last.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

gat3keeper said:


> Poor Nino... Damn!
> 
> Scott team should take a look at their pedals and shoes. It may be coincidence or what, Kate had issue with her clipless as well few races back. It cost them poor start specially Nino.
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


Maybe 120mm suspension is too much for short track...Or maybe they got confused with all the levers on the bars of that new Spark?


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Maybe 120mm suspension is too much for short track...Or maybe they got confused with all the levers on the bars of that new Spark?


I think that's not the issue. Nino slipped his pedal at the start of the race. Putting him from start of the line to last in first few seconds of the race.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nino pushed too hard and didn't expect so much rebound from the suspension. It bucked him like a 500cc single does if you kick start it wrong. Coupled to the slack head angle the bike also went backwards so he got confused as to where the pedals actually were.

Avancini is still in Brasil. He is out of form due to the continuous requirement to quarantine everytime he travels into Europe. He'll miss the leogang and the next race which means the next time we see him will be in Tokyo


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Hey! Don't mess with my beers!!! I have a friend/training partner who's a coach (USA Cycling Certified, UCI Certified, yada yada yada Certified ,etc.) and *says I have a ton of qualities* that would make me a top rider, but after a long discussion, my closing argument is I'm 44 and not quitting beer. Now he brings beers every other weekend for our BBQ grilling afternoons!!!


Maybe it would be better if you would have only 70kg of qualities and not whole ton  Just joking so don't take me serious about this 
Otherwise beer is just fine, afterall we need to enjoy life not just suffer. But my point was, as very big part of hoby cyclists is seriously overweight, it would be much easier to lose kilo or two (or ten) and have way more benefit (even off the bike) then spending 2000eur to have 100g lighter bike. But all cons with this solutin were already mentioned


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

So many old school hardtails doing so well today


----------



## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> So many old school hardtails doing so well today


Sure seems like it. I can't find a geometry chart for Loana's Massi. Is that old skool as well?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tick_magnet said:


> Sure seems like it. I can't find a geometry chart for Loana's Massi. Is that old skool as well?


Old and obsolete 
She would be lapping the 2nd place rider on the latest Bold. Sorry Scott


----------



## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Happy to see Jolanda back in podium though.

For some reason, I enjoy watching women's category than men's. It's exciting and fun to watch.


----------



## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Brad said:


> Old and obsolete
> She would be lapping the 2nd place rider on the latest Bold. Sorry Scott


I was surprised most by Nino's inability to move through the pack. The pedal slip can be chalked up to a freak accident. But I would have expected him to carve through the pack until at least the top 10.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

primoz said:


> Maybe it would be better if you would have only 70kg of qualities and not whole ton  Just joking so don't take me serious about this
> Otherwise beer is just fine, afterall we need to enjoy life not just suffer. But my point was, as very big part of hoby cyclists is seriously overweight, it would be much easier to lose kilo or two (or ten) and have way more benefit (even off the bike) then spending 2000eur to have 100g lighter bike. But all cons with this solutin were already mentioned


My recovery drink after a race is beer!!!

Jokes aside, I know I could drop about 3-4 kilos or maybe 10lbs in total if I just stop drinking beer. I'm 6'0 (1.83m) and 176lbs (80 kilos). In my best racing shape ever, I was 164lbs (74.5 kilos) and my FTP was around 328w for 20min on a 8% climb. I won every race I entered that year in my age group. That was 4 years ago and I was not racing a weight weeine bike. I realized soon after I started racing about 10 yeara ago that proper training and nutrition is better than having the ''best bike". Ironically, I think my bike is one of the lightest out there without having super top notch or weight weenie parts. Functional components let me finish the race and I have spare money for beers afterward.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> I was surprised most by Nino's inability to move through the pack. The pedal slip can be chalked up to a freak accident. But I would have expected him to carve through the pack until at least the top 10.


I read in his Instagram that after 2-3 laps, he decided to just conserve his energy for the next race.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

gat3keeper said:


> I read in his Instagram that after 2-3 laps, he decided to just conserve his energy for the next race.


It wasn't just him, Lars and Andri finished behind him on the new Spark. But hey, at least Nino is still the top dog on the Scott team.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

gat3keeper said:


> I read in his Instagram that after 2-3 laps, he decided to just conserve his energy for the next race.


True. And I definitely am not ready to blame the bike. I take it with a grain of salt when people point to one or two good races as evidence that certain equipment are difference makers so I am not going to apply double standards here when it doesn't go well for one race. I'll be interested to see how the entire scott team does over the next year or two to see if there is a trend.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Anyone know what Stigger and Blevins were dropped so hard near the end of their races?


----------



## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Stigger had breathing problems and she DNFed


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

In other news, Pidcock plans to be healthy for Les Gets and MVDP will omit MTB racing until the Olympics, as will Avancini.

1+ minute wins… hmm, that hasn’t happened since… Kulhavy on his 29er FS….  

Weight and watts/kg is certainly the overriding factor. I raced a couple years into my early 40s at a pro-level weight but now I can observe and test the statistical differences over a nice whiskey sour 

I wouldn’t predict that the new Spark is going to help Nino much. I’m trying to overlook the likelihood that he’s downsizing his frame, but besides that, he’s arguably the most skilled rider out there already. A better bike is either going to get out of your way if you’re skilled or it’ll erase mistakes if you’re a big Diesel engine—Annika Langvad for instance. We’ll see if he’s got the legs at the Olympics or it’s time to look at retirement.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> It wasn't just him, Lars and Andri finished behind him on the new Spark. But hey, at least Nino is still the top dog on the Scott team.


The only Scott rider that performed better on the new bike was Janika Loiv. Its not good for marketing when your bike slumps in its first race save for one outlier.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

So how hard was that short track?

I have a couple of power files. This is from a rider who finished outside of the top 24 in the women's race.

Rider Weight: 64kg.
Average power: 240
Norm power: 305
Peak 1 minutes: 510
Peak 5 minutes: 300

Bottom to the top of the climb was about 1:45. The lowest average watts for the climb was 320. 

Catharine hit stop instead of start on her gamin at the beginning of the race, so no power file from her. Which is too bad because in middle of the race she was doing lap times within a coupe of seconds of Lora. Her charge got derailed by a slide out in a turn just as she caught the top 10 (Even with an upsized frame and short stem crashes still happen).


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

For a Short track it looked hard - that climb spread the field out early on. Lecomte just rode away from them like it was an easy warm down ride....and she didn't look in trouble when they took time out of her, probably just pacing it to the finish. She'll be hard to beat on Sunday.
I'd pick Matthias for Sunday, but expect Ondrej to go well as well; I'll never write Nino off but a top 5 would be a good result.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> So how hard was that short track?
> 
> I have a couple of power files. This is from a rider who finished outside of the top 24 in the women's race.
> 
> ...


I'll have to do a curve fit to get this more accurate but a FTP of around 345 seems likely?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> For a Short track it looked hard - that climb spread the field out early on. Lecomte just rode away from them like it was an easy warm down ride....and she didn't look in trouble when they took time out of her, probably just pacing it to the finish. She'll be hard to beat on Sunday.
> I'd pick Matthias for Sunday, but expect Ondrej to go well as well; I'll never write Nino off but a top 5 would be a good result.


Its such a steep track and she's very light, she's a climbers build so I' expect her to dominate on Sunday again. 
Matthias is looking the most likely to take Sunday's silverware and I'm rooting for Alan Hatherly for 2nd. He got taken out by Jens Schuermanns, riding the new long low and slack uncrashable Scott, when he went down. Unfortunately for Alan the extra 1 degree head angle wasn't enough to save him from Jens crash. He should have been on a Canyon. Pity


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> The only Scott rider that performed better on the new bike was Janika Loiv. Its not good for marketing when your bike slumps in its first race save for one outlier.


Janika rode Scale


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> So how hard was that short track?
> 
> I have a couple of power files. This is from a rider who finished outside of the top 24 in the women's race.
> 
> ...


****! top womens are so strong ?  I'm 62kg and ftp 296, they look pretty much like my numbers 

Cink's strava link to XCC with power numbers - Short track Leogang 🥈 - Ondřej Cink's 7.6 km mountain bike ride


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Can someone please post the top three bikes in each class along with all geo and critical parts specs (like stem length) so that we can get a proper data based analysis and discussion going? Need to determine exactly what won these races. 





JK


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> ****! top womens are so strong ?  I'm 62kg and ftp 296, they look pretty much like my numbers
> 
> Cink's strava link to XCC with power numbers - Short track Leogang  - Ondřej Cink's 7.6 km mountain bike ride


Men and women are on a different level, let's be gentlemen about it, but for women those numbers are very strong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I love that Redbull provides this coverage for free and they do a great job once I've actually been able to find and click play on the event. I have no idea why it's so hard to find anything I'm looking for on the Redbull app on ROKU (I remember it being very similar on Apple TV when I had that). Maybe I'm an idiot. That's possible. It feels to as though they don't want me to find what I want, even though that makes no sense at all.

I was just looking on my PC at the Redbull site and there's some "multi cam" thing. What's that about?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Men and women are on a different level, let's be gentlemen about it, but for women those numbers are very strong.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would love those numbers, even being a guy weighing 79kg!


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

scottg said:


> I love that Redbull provides this coverage for free and they do a great job once I've actually been able to find and click play on the event. I have no idea why it's so hard to find anything I'm looking for on the Redbull app on ROKU (I remember it being very similar on Apple TV when I had that). Maybe I'm an idiot. That's possible. It feels to as though they don't want me to find what I want, even though that makes no sense at all.
> 
> I was just looking on my PC at the Redbull site and there's some "multi cam" thing. What's that about?


Was wondering about the Multicam thing too.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Was wondering about the Multicam thing too.


There is always riders racing with cameras on. Maybe the plan is to be able access that cam


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Brad said:


> The only Scott rider that performed better on the new bike was Janika Loiv. Its not good for marketing when your bike slumps in its first race save for one outlier.


The Trek FS bike hasn't done very well either. Maybe manufacturers are looking at radical designs to sell that are highly marginal in the real world


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Brad said:


> Its such a steep track and she's very light, she's a climbers build so I' expect her to dominate on Sunday again.
> Matthias is looking the most likely to take Sunday's silverware and I'm rooting for Alan Hatherly for 2nd. He got taken out by Jens Schuermanns, riding the new long low and slack uncrashable Scott, when he went down. Unfortunately for Alan the extra 1 degree head angle wasn't enough to save him from Jens crash. He should have been on a Canyon. Pity


Anton Cooper is the man to beat. Definitely.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

madfella said:


> The Trek FS bike hasn't done very well either. Maybe manufacturers are looking at radical designs to sell that are highly marginal in the real world


If someone were to say Mona Mitterwallner is the fastest women in the world right now, I would listen to their case. She has been pretty dominant on her Trek. Vlad also absolutely crushed the U23 field on his in 2019.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Lecomte again! Wide margin! 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Lecomte again! Wide margin!
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


No dropper, open mould with steep headangle


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

To be honest, on climbing courses, there is very little the opposition can do. Climbing is all about W/Kg....you can't defy physics. And she didn't even seem out of breath at the finish......

Anybody know how long her contract with Massi lasts? One would think one of the big companies may be calling with a big contract - and maybe even tempting with some road races?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

It was as pretty good race...for 2nd! She dropped them so fast and that was it.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Exmuhle said:


> To be honest, on climbing courses, there is very little the opposition can do. Climbing is all about W/Kg....you can't defy physics. And she didn't even seem out of breath at the finish......
> 
> Anybody know how long her contract with Massi lasts? One would think one of the big companies may be calling with a big contract - and maybe even tempting with some road races?


Thats what I said in one of her IG post. Sooner or later Trek/Specialized will be the decals in her bike.

Honestly, I want small bike companies to win but of course, the riders are working their as off for bigger paycheck at the end of the day.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Emily Batty is still nowhere to be found. Did she race? Short track she was there 2nd to the last I think. 

No offense but the hype on her Youtube, Canyon promotional video, Instagram, etc...are so enticing. But no results. For a fan, it's disappointing. Top 10 should be fine.

In business stand point, if Im paying you so much money. Should deliver each race or at least be on top 50% for a bad year.

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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

So awesome to see Jenny Rissveds getting back to form and able to defend her Olympic title. Les Gets is going to be interesting


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Emily Batty is still nowhere to be found. Did she race? Short track she was there 2nd to the last I think.
> 
> No offense but the hype on her Youtube, Canyon promotional video, Instagram, etc...are so enticing. But no results. For a fan, it's disappointing. Top 10 should be fine.
> 
> ...


She finished 32nd I think. 
Yeah she's not had a good couple of seasons. Hopefully she comes good for Tokyo. But its also her team so she doesn't have the pressure of being on factory team.


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Neff broke her hand:



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-breaks-hand-in-leogang-world-cup-xc-crash.html


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

So looks like the new Spark is rubbish ?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well, it didn't have the best debut event did it.... 
All the hype and fzzzzzt


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Great race without some key big guns. Dascalu was sketchy on the final turns and I knew either Griot or Litscher would catch him.

So happy for Flueckiger--he's seemed to be a rubber band that never breaks, he seemed to be able to hold on to anyone but couldn't take control. Glad he was able to make a move and win today.

Nino finishing in 10th wasn't so bad--hard to start from the 4th row.

I think the drone footage really helps to show how fast the guys are going.

Man! So tragic to see that my gal Neff got hurt, she was back in form and looking frisky. I feel bad...


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Brad said:


> Yeah she's not had a good couple of seasons. Hopefully she comes good for Tokyo


Emily may not be going to Tokyo, she's 3rd in line for Canada, we have 2 spots for women - Catharine Pendrel and Haley Smith have met our qualification criteria to a higher level,


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well that's a pity for her but I guess also the result of some poor form. I really hope she gets it together. That diet experimentation phase didn't appear to work out very well in terms of delivering the performance gains she was looking for. I haven't spent much time in her company but she appears to be a really lovely human and deserves better


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> If someone were to say Mona Mitterwallner is the fastest women in the world right now, I would listen to their case. She has been pretty dominant on her Trek. Vlad also absolutely crushed the U23 field on his in 2019.


One can always find instances of a mass produced bike having success if you look far enough down the ranks.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good ride from Anton


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Laura Stigger seemed to be bombing those steep rooty descends on that Epic hardtail. I didn't know she was such a strong technical rider.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

madfella said:


> One can always find instances of a mass produced bike having success if you look far enough down the ranks.


You'd have to scroll all the way down to third in men's and 4th and 6th in women's. And then there's the U23.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

According to Emily Barry’s IG, she crashed. A “silly” one as she says.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

If anybody has noticed, Massi bikes hav had a great season. Not only from Loana Lecomte, but also Tomas Griot. He had an impressive race yesterday and also some good placing during the first two rounds.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Can somebody please identify Mat Fluck's tires? The look like Thunder Burt's...

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-runaway-train-leogang-xc-world-cup-2021.html


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

NordieBoy said:


> Good ride from Anton


Was impressive how he knew when to back off. 
Then again, he has been on the circuit fir a decade or so now.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

smartyiak said:


> You'd have to scroll all the way down to third in men's and 4th and 6th in women's. And then there's the U23.


Incorrect. Cooper wisely elected the hardtail.

Look, all I'm saying is that the Trek FS bike has not had huge success at the highest level since it was conceived, despite procuring some of the sports best athletes.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> Can somebody please identify Mat Fluck's tires? The look like Thunder Burt's...
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-runaway-train-leogang-xc-world-cup-2021.html


Racing Ralphs


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

madfella said:


> Incorrect. Cooper wisely elected the hardtail.
> 
> Look, all I'm saying is that the Trek FS bike has not had huge success at the highest level since it was conceived, despite procuring some of the sports best athletes.


I think you're talking about the soft-tail Supercaliber? I agree it's a step back, not forward. Neff rode better on her old Kross FS where she could get rowdy.

Cooper is very small but so is Lecompte-he was slow on the descents. In the interviews he seemed a little tentative and perhaps should have believed he could've made up the gap.

The Top Fuel but should get another look now that we're ready for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I honestly don't know what Trek was thinking with the Supercal. While I'm not going to say it can't win in the right hands, I also don't see what advantage it offers. It has a heavy frame while delivering 60% of the travel that other FS bikes deliver. What's the point?


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

chomxxo said:


> I think you're talking about the soft-tail Supercaliber? I agree it's a step back, not forward. Neff rode better on her old Kross FS where she could get rowdy.
> 
> Cooper is very small but so is Lecompte-he was slow on the descents. In the interviews he seemed a little tentative and perhaps should have believed he could've made up the gap.
> 
> ...


Hardtail or FS... or soft tail. But yep, I meant 'not FS bike'. 
Not sure that Cooper was slow on the decents at all.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

So glad to see Bart still commentating on the ladies race! 

Surely just a matter of time. 

Like this post to voice support for the Bartman!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

tick_magnet said:


> I honestly don't know what Trek was thinking with the Supercal. While I'm not going to say it can't win in the right hands, I also don't see what advantage it offers. It has a heavy frame while delivering 60% of the travel that other FS bikes deliver. What's the point?


It won de U23 Men's race under Riley Amos. 
If you give the choice of becoming a triathlete or ride/race the Supercaliber for free for the rest of my life, I would quit the sport...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

madfella said:


> Incorrect. Cooper wisely elected the hardtail.
> 
> Look, all I'm saying is that the Trek FS bike has not had huge success at the highest level since it was conceived, despite procuring some of the sports best athletes.


You're right...I meant scroll down to 5th.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

smartyiak said:


> You're right...I meant scroll down to 5th.


But...I do agree that the Trek should attempt to make the SC 80-100mm...or just go back to a TopFuel layout and make is SuperLight (see what I did there  )


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Whats wrong with Trek Supercaliber? Can someone enlighten me? 

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

gat3keeper said:


> Whats wrong with Trek Supercaliber? Can someone enlighten me?
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


There's nothing "wrong" per se. It's just that it weighs about the same (or miore) as most of the other XCO FS bikes while giving only 60mm travel. But it's also a fair bit heavier than a HT.

I'm sure people would think different if it was <20lb...or it was 100mm.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

smartyiak said:


> There's nothing "wrong" per se. It's just that it weighs about the same (or miore) as most of the other XCO FS bikes while giving only 60mm travel. But it's also a fair bit heavier than a HT.
> 
> I'm sure people would think different if it was


Well, if its heavy for a carbon and xc bike "standard", not to mention that it's so expensive. Then, definitely something's wrong.

For sure if it's lighter, it will benefit Jolanda and Anton.

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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

smartyiak said:


> There's nothing "wrong" per se. It's just that it weighs about the same (or miore) as most of the other XCO FS bikes while giving only 60mm travel. But it's also a fair bit heavier than a HT.
> 
> I'm sure people would think different if it was <20lb...or it was 100mm.


This. I don't think the bike is terrible and I think we are talking about marginal gains. So I think someone like Loana would still win on it. I just can't see what advantages it offers, marginal or otherwise.

If Trek offered me a contract, I would definitely ride it. But if I were to buy a bike, it would be near the bottom of my list.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

afalts said:


> Emily may not be going to Tokyo, she's 3rd in line for Canada, we have 2 spots for women - Catharine Pendrel and Haley Smith have met our qualification criteria to a higher level,


Unless some similar shenanigans to the USA women happen? I would be dumbstruck if Catharine didn't go, she is looking like she might contend for the podium at this trajectory. But with Canada's criteria, is there still a committee that gets to decide between Emily and Haley? Or is Haley actually already confirmed?

For context, I'm still frustrated by the Erin Huck thing.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Is it just me or... Is Jolanda Neff trying to hold such a high cadence that it's hurting her? She's spinning crazy RPMs. Way higher than anyone around her. A couple of times she would charge ahead, then looks like she went too deep and has to slow to recover. I mean I feel like I can see her heart rate bouncing off the rev limiter, it looks painful. 

I understand this is her style and I'm sure she trains for it, but there's so many times when I think "just get out of the damn saddle already" while they're going up something steep. (As a masher, this also offends me visually.) 

Anyone else notice this?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

bikeranzin said:


> Unless some similar shenanigans to the USA women happen? I would be dumbstruck if Catharine didn't go, she is looking like she might contend for the podium at this trajectory. But with Canada's criteria, is there still a committee that gets to decide between Emily and Haley? Or is Haley actually already confirmed?
> 
> For context, I'm still frustrated by the Erin Huck thing.


I still don't understand how Chloe Woodruff was selected by USA Cycling over Erin Huck.

Huck was demonstrably better in WC XCO races so far this season.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Is it just me or... Is Jolanda Neff trying to hold such a high cadence that it's hurting her? She's spinning crazy RPMs. Way higher than anyone around her. A couple of times she would charge ahead, then looks like she went too deep and has to slow to recover. I mean I feel like I can see her heart rate bouncing off the rev limiter, it looks painful.
> 
> I understand this is her style and I'm sure she trains for it, but there's so many times when I think "just get out of the damn saddle already" while they're going up something steep. (As a masher, this also offends me visually.)
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


It certainly appears to me that she'd be able to maintain momentum if she'd dip down into a harder gear on occasion, yes.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Is it just me or... Is Jolanda Neff trying to hold such a high cadence that it's hurting her? She's spinning crazy RPMs. Way higher than anyone around her. A couple of times she would charge ahead, then looks like she went too deep and has to slow to recover. I mean I feel like I can see her heart rate bouncing off the rev limiter, it looks painful.
> 
> I understand this is her style and I'm sure she trains for it, but there's so many times when I think "just get out of the damn saddle already" while they're going up something steep. (As a masher, this also offends me visually.)
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


It's also helping her later in the race.
I think she should still spin, but not quite as high. Just so she could keep a little more consistent speed and not having to pass as many people in the middle of the race.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> I still don't understand how Chloe Woodruff was selected by USA Cycling over Erin Huck.
> 
> Huck was demonstrably better in WC XCO races so far this season.


Yep. And a quick look at USAC's Instagram where they announced the MTB team shows that we're not alone. I don't know her very well personally, but I'm one degree of kevin bacon away, and the rumors seem to be that there's personal politics with her and at least someone on the committee. Regardless, if there was an organized boycott of usac over this, I would likely participate, even if it meant foregoing nationals myself.


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

bikeranzin said:


> But with Canada's criteria, is there still a committee that gets to decide between Emily and Haley? Or is Haley actually already confirmed?


No public confirmation at least, but it kinda goes like this:

Priority 1 is finishing in the the top 5 in the elite race at 2019 XCO world championships (Mont-Sainte-Anne). 
Which no Canadian did.

Priority 2 for women is "Athletes finishing top 12 in an elite World Cup XCO in Europe or Elite world championships." This is 2019 world championships, 2019 World Cup season - minus Snowshoe World Cup - plus 2021 Albstadt and Nove Mesto World Cups.
So for that we have:
Haley with 3rd at Nove Mesto (2019), 6th at Les Gets (2019), 9th in Albstadt (2019), and 12th at 2019 worlds
Catharine: 5th in Lenzerheide, 9th at Val di Sole, 12th in Albstadt, and 12th again in Les Gets.
Emily: 9th at 2019 worlds.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Leogang 2021 Women's XCO Replay:








Women's XCO final – Leogang


Watch the women's XCO final as riders take on Leogang's unpredictable cross-country course.




www.redbull.com





Leogang 2021 Men's XCO Replay:








Men's XCO final – Leogang


Catch the men's XCO final as riders take on Leogang's unpredictable cross-country course.




www.redbull.com





Full Results from Pinkbike:


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-leogang-world-cup-xc-2021.html



Race photos from Pinkbike:


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-runaway-train-leogang-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Watching the commentary from the Women's race on Lap 1 made me laugh. There was a long cutaway view of that straight climb up past the ski lifts with Loana Lecomte nearly at the top with the field still in view but way behind.

Rob Warner asks Bart Brentjens: "At least they can still see her, will it motivate them to chase after her up the climb?"

That was Lap 1. By Lap 2 the gap was so massive that Loana Lecomte was almost at the top of that straight climb and out of sight before anyone else had even started it!

The race for the positions behind was good. I kept thinking Pauline Ferrand Prevot was dropped, then she would drag herself back up to the front group and attack off the front again! She was really struggling on the descents though and was losing lots of time to the other riders. On that steepest drop with the A and B lines she kept taking the "easier" B line whilst the others were taking the A line and going straight past every lap.

For the men's race it made me realise just how much Nino Schurter carries the Scott Sram team. It's really a team built around him. If he's not on top form then the other riders aren't looking like they can step up to fill the gap.

Nino Schurter was 10th at 1 minute 59 seconds
Lars Forster was 16th at 3 minutes 11 seconds
Andri Frischnecht was 32nd at 4 minutes 53 seconds

I was quite surprised how well Mathias Fluckiger dropped Ondrej Cink in the end. Ondrej Cink was looking really strong at the start and Mathias Fluckiger was only just hanging on for the first two laps. It's debatable but Ondrej Cink asking Mathias Fluckiger to lead on Lap 3 could have been a mistake, because as soon as Mathias Fluckiger was leading he could ride his own pace both on the climbs but also on the descents where Ondrej Cink was losing bike lengths and having to burn energy on the climbs closing back up, possibly using more energy than if he had made a point of staying in front to control the pace on the descents.

I'm not totally sure about that, as Mathias Fluckiger would probably have chosen his moment to attack anyway and Ondrej Cink might not have been able to hold the pace of the first two laps. From the onscreen graphics Mathias Fluckiger put in the fastest laps of the race when he needed to so had plenty in hand.

One thing I noticed was that from the head on shots you can read the numbers on the orange Fox forks. Ondrej Cink was using a Fox 34 fork for this race.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

afalts said:


> No public confirmation at least, but it kinda goes like this:
> 
> Priority 1 is finishing in the the top 5 in the elite race at 2019 XCO world championships (Mont-Sainte-Anne).
> Which no Canadian did.
> ...


Interesting. Were worlds not preferred over the cups? While neither Emily nor Haley seem to be riding at their potential this year, Emily seems like she's got an ever so slight edge. It's crazy how fast you Canadians are though, eh?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

WR304 said:


> I'm not totally sure about that, as Mathias Fluckiger would probably have chosen his moment to attack anyway and Ondrej Cink might not have been able to hold the pace of the first two laps. From the onscreen graphics Mathias Fluckiger put in the fastest laps of the race when he needed to so had plenty in hand.


Given the Pidcock/MVDP party that was the beginning of the season, Mathias had a bit of a dark horse feel, but watching him at the swiss cups and also pretty much being the only one who could chase down van der poel, the way he is riding is totally unsurprising. It seems like all he needed was the confidence from breaking out from under Nino's shadow, but damn if he's not riding well right now.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Whats wrong with Trek Supercaliber? Can someone enlighten me?
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


The main criticism of the Trek Supercaliber is that it only has 60mm of rear suspension travel but still weighs the same as a standard full suspension bike. That limits its appeal because it doesn't give the benefits descending that even a 100mm travel full suspension bike does (in order to not bottom out the short 60mm travel rear suspension needs to be setup very stiff with plenty of tokens) but it also loses out to a hardtail uphill because a hardtail is quite a bit lighter.

The way the Trek Supercaliber frame sizing scales makes it a reasonable option if you're a shorter rider but fit is going to be an issue for taller riders. The top tubes are quite short and the Trek Supercaliber head tube length is only 90mm on all sizes up to Large and 105mm on a size XL. That compares to a head tube length of 115mm on a Size Large 2021 Specialized Epic and 135mm on a Size XL 2021 Specialized Epic so the front end of a Trek Supercaliber ends up being lower. On the larger sizes of the Trek Supercaliber for a taller rider it's either a case of having a massive saddle to handlebar drop or a giant stack of spacers under the stem.









Supercaliber 9.9 XX1 AXS | Trek Bikes (GB)


Discover your next great ride with Supercaliber 9.9 XX1 AXS. See the bike and visit your local Trek retailer. Shop now!




www.trekbikes.com





Flow Mountain Bike do really good XC bike reviews. There is a whole series of these for other XC bikes like the Specialized Epic, Orbea Oiz etc on youtube too that are worth a watch as well.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Continuing the Trek Supercaliber theme here is a bike check of Vlad Dascalu's Trek Supercaliber from 2020. 









Vlad Dascalu's Supercaliber Trek in detail


We were able to see the Supercaliber Trek with a very particular assembly.




www.brujulabike.com





This is the Andreani Pro Impact tuning referred to in the article for his fork and rear shock (in Italian so use Google translate to read).









TEST ANDREANI PROIMPACT: IL “TUNING” FACILE ALLA PORTATA DI TUTTI


Se ben vi ricordate nell'articolo dell'Italian bike Festival di Rimini avevamo presentato il nuovo sistema di "tuning facile" Andreani ProImpact, ovvero u




www.pianetamountainbike.it





.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I dunno. My medium Supercaliber is under 21 lbs with pedals and dropper. Maybe a pound heavier than a hard tail, but certainly lighter than an FS. And the anti squat is so high I never lock it out…don’t even have the remote connected. And the isostrut is so good I felt zero difference from the Blur the Supercaliber replaced. Best XD bike I’ve ever had to date, and I’ve had many…SC, Spesh, Scott, even an Unno..hard tails, FS. Beats them all. Love it.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

MattMay said:


> I dunno. My medium Supercaliber is under 21 lbs with pedals and dropper. Maybe a pound heavier than a hard tail, but certainly lighter than an FS. And the anti squat is so high I never lock it out&#8230;don't even have the remote connected. And the isostrut is so good I felt zero difference from the Blur the Supercaliber replaced. Best XD bike I've ever had to date, and I've had many&#8230;SC, Spesh, Scott, even an Unno..hard tails, FS. Beats them all. Love it.


The frame weight for your bike is public knowledge, around 1900gm from memory? Which is competitive with although slightly heavier than the latest breed. 
But if you love it, then it's the best for you imo.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> If Trek offered me a contract, I would definitely ride it. But if I were to buy a bike, it would be near the bottom of my list.


Interesting. A lot of people I know are drooling for this bike (myself included) haha. Oh well, maybe because we dont really race and just biking for health reasons. But yeah, a big part of it is the brand familiarity. Most common people will consider Trek/Specialized over other brand.

I just thought Supercaliber is a state of the art bike. I thought it was so advance thats why it cost more than my car and pc combined. Haha.

Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Is it just me or... Is Jolanda Neff trying to hold such a high cadence that it's hurting her?
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


I've made the same observation, and I'm a "spinner" so I usually think people are clunking along in too big of a gear. Neff needs one higher gear and Courtney one lower gear - while a reasonable climber, she looks like she's muscling every climb. And she definitely sprints in too high a gear. Has Courtney ever won a sprint at the end of a race? If she went one or two smaller gears out the last corner, some of those sprints would have turned out differently.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> I still don't understand how Chloe Woodruff was selected by USA Cycling over Erin Huck.
> 
> Huck was demonstrably better in WC XCO races so far this season.


I love the game "Let's play selection committee". The committee is looking at results from 2019 and 2021 by criteria

Background info. When making Olympic selections committees have two big factors. 
1. Top 8 performance at current Olympics
2. Future performance potential

Enter Chloe and Erin. 
Erin has the best World Cup finishes this year. Her top performance and best ever result was at the in of 2019 with a 11th. Injured at the start of 2019 very few other WC results

Chloe had 9 top 10s, including a WC podium and a short track win in 2019. She actually hit on of the automatic criteria. (Top 10 overall). Struggled at the first two world cups in 2021. But context on that Chloe had a concussion a couple of weeks prior and actually probably should have sat those world cups out to train.

So if you look at the WC results of the two during the selection period when they were both healthy. Chloe had much better results

Does Chloe have enough training time between mid May and end of July to get back to top form absolutely. Will she get there? We will find out in July.

I have no horse in this race (although Chloe did buy the cutest outfit for my daughter). But I would have made the same choice as the selection committee.

Canada went with strict criteria this time around to avoid the controversy of committee choice. The team is likely Haley and Catharine for the women and Peter for the men.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> I love the game "Let's play selection committee". The committee is looking at results from 2019 and 2021 by criteria
> 
> Background info. When making Olympic selections committees have two big factors.
> 1. Top 8 performance at current Olympics
> ...


Thanks for the context. I actually don't think Chloe hit any automatic qualifier though, otherwise there would have been no committee needed. We already knew Kate and Haley were in due to automatic quals.

I've seen it stated, although not verified, that Erin has beat Chloe in 8/10 of the past races where they were both lined up. She's also currently uci ranked 25th compared to Chloe's >100. Given all of that, it's really not a clear cut decision.

The reason fans get to play selection committee, btw, is because the committee has decided to be a black box about it. That's on them, and forces the burden on the rest of us to reverse engineer the logic.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

bikeranzin said:


> Thanks for the context. I actually don't think Chloe hit any automatic qualifier though, otherwise there would have been no committee needed. We already knew Kate and Haley were in due to automatic quals.
> 
> I've seen it stated, although not verified, that Erin has beat Chloe in 8/10 of the past races where they were both lined up. She's also currently uci ranked 25th compared to Chloe's >100. Given all of that, it's really not a clear cut decision.
> 
> The reason fans get to play selection committee, btw, is because the committee has decided to be a black box about it. That's on them, and forces the burden on the rest of us to reverse engineer the logic.


Top 10 overall in 2019 was an automatic but the last spot was committee to be choice. If Haley hadn't gotten a top 8 at Nova Mesto Chloe would have been automatic and then it would have probably been Haley for committee choice.

Erin's injury in 2019 meant that she never really had a chance to show her stuff at that many world cups. Which is super tough for her. But If I was on the selection committee I would have looked for her to match one of Chloe's World Cup results at least once.

Head to head comparisons are always tough. Some riders really only bring their best to WCs. When Catharine was at her best she would be getting 2nd and 3rds at US cups but winning world cups. Part of it is WC courses suit a different rider than US cups. The steep climbing and technical descents are different ball game


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Julie Bresset to retire at the end of this season.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Shes been around a long time. Chapeau to her for a great career


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## BermudaBrown (May 28, 2012)

LMN said:


> I
> 
> Canada went with strict criteria this time around to avoid the controversy of committee choice. The team is likely Haley and Catharine for the women and Peter for the men.


Peter is an exceptional human being - both he and Quinton are quintessentially awesome ambassadors for Canada.

I know less about Leandre Bouchard but I would submit that his performances have been exceptional in the early WC season. I see he must've faded or had something happen at Leogang and thus was behind Peter.

Watched Peter battle many WCs, can't deny his heart (and it bears repeating - exceptional human). But do you think there is an argument for Leandre over Peter? I think there's an argument - but I'm happy with either one representing Canada.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BermudaBrown said:


> Peter is an exceptional human being - both he and Quinton are quintessentially awesome ambassadors for Canada.
> 
> I know less about Leandre Bouchard but I would submit that his performances have been exceptional in the early WC season. I see he must've faded or had something happen at Leogang and thus was behind Peter.
> 
> Watched Peter battle many WCs, can't deny his heart (and it bears repeating - exceptional human). But do you think there


If best results at those first world cups were the published selection criteria than for sure, Dre should be selected. But that wasn't the criteria. Simplified version is best result at a world cup in 2019 season and the first 2 world cups in 2012 season. Peter had that with a 6th at Les Gets.

Athletes (and coaches) write training structure around criteria. With a solid result in bank Peter did not need to be flying in May, he could really target his training to be at his best in July. If he needed to be at his best in May he would have started training 6 weeks early. Already by Leogang you can see the different targets coming into play. Dre form is starting to drop and Peters is increasing. And remember Peter was 6th at the short tract in Albstadt, with a back row start.

One Cycling Canada take aways from Catharine's struggles in 2012 at Olympics was the need give high performing athletes the previous season some assurance that they are going. Even though Catharine was the 2011 world champion, she wasn't pre-qualified. And at the time Canada had three very strong riders MHP, Emily B, and Catharine. If Catharine had been just a bit off form early season she wouldn't have qualified. Catharine came into the 2012 season flying (her single best race of her career was Houffalize in April), by the time olympics came around she was off form and wasn't a factor in the race.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> If best results at those first world cups were the published selection criteria than for sure, Dre should be selected. But that wasn't the criteria. Simplified version is best result at a world cup in 2019 season and the first 2 world cups in 2012 season. Peter had that with a 6th at Les Gets.
> 
> Athletes (and coaches) write training structure around criteria. With a solid result in bank Peter did not need to be flying in May, he could really target his training to be at his best in July. If he needed to be at his best in May he would have started training 6 weeks early. Already by Leogang you can see the different targets coming into play. Dre form is starting to drop and Peters is increasing. And remember Peter was 6th at the short tract in Albstadt, with a back row start.
> 
> One Cycling Canada take aways from Catharine's struggles in 2012 at Olympics was the need give high performing athletes the previous season some assurance that they are going. Even though Catharine was the 2011 world champion, she wasn't pre-qualified. And at the time Canada had three very strong riders MHP, Emily B, and Catharine. If Catharine had been just a bit off form early season she wouldn't have qualified. Catharine came into the 2012 season flying (her single best race of her career was Houffalize in April), by the time olympics came around she was off form and wasn't a factor in the race.


Just wanted to say thanks LMN for your input. You really provide the most interesting little details.

I still think the most mysterious part of endurance sport is timing a peak for a single day performance. If you want to medal at the olympics, you better be on the best form of your life and to do that you need to peak perfectly. At the top end of the field, if you miss your peak by 1%...good lucking landing on the podium.

It must be such a delicate balance needing to race fast early in the season while knowing you'll need to do an intense build/rest phase right before the olympics. I think criteria that allow athletes the time to build fitness towards a peak will ultimate get better olympic results than a criteria that picks the fastest athlete in May.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Bunch of races this weekend in Europe as Les Gets race looms. Victories for Evie Richards, Kate Courtney, Victor Koretzky, Vlad Dascalu and a few more...and once again, Loana Lecomte destroys the field with some good competition. Almos two minutes ahead pf PFP. 

LMN, how good of a race was that?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Bunch of races this weekend in Europe as Les Gets race looms. Victories for Evie Richards, Kate Courtney, Victor Koretzky, Vlad Dascalu and a few more...and once again, Loana Lecomte destroys the field with some good competition. Almos two minutes ahead pf PFP.
> 
> LMN, how good of a race was that?


The atmosphere at french cups is really cool. If you want to a bike racing vacation I would highly recommend hitting some up.

The rider who impressed me the most was Mona. Both her and Catharine were way back in the field for the first two laps. Mona followed Catharine through the field for the 1.5 laps and then set off. She was pretty close to Loana in lap times at the end of the race, even did one lap quicker. I suspect those two are going to be battling over the next couple of years.

The best though was watching Mona pre-ride with her dad. She rode super patient while her dad was all in to follow her. I bet it is pretty cool for him to see that change.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

off topic but did anyone see the Swiss Bike cup XCO on the 20th? Kate Courtney took it by a pretty big margin...her tires were huge! Maxxis 2.4's (not sure which ones but prob aspens) everyone else had classic 2.25's and many/most on hard tails. She was on her FS Spark. She's coming back from injury and maybe just wanted a little more cushion..funny because at the start she did not get the holeshot and first lap did not look good (bobbled and had to walk a climb, dabbed a few times on another tech) then she just got her grove and diesel'd away from the pack. 
But on topic, yes gonna be a great weekend of racing between the tour and Les Gets...the family is going to get tortured with bike racing on TV in my house (or most likely i'll be out voted and kicked out to watch it in my garage/pain cave)


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

mackdhagen said:


> off topic but did anyone see the Swiss Bike cup XCO on the 20th? Kate Courtney took it by a pretty big margin...her tires were huge! Maxxis 2.4's (not sure which ones but prob aspens) everyone else had classic 2.25's and many/most on hard tails. She was on her FS Spark. She's coming back from injury and maybe just wanted a little more cushion..funny because at the start she did not get the holeshot and first lap did not look good (bobbled and had to walk a climb, dabbed a few times on another tech) then she just got her grove and diesel'd away from the pack.
> But on topic, yes gonna be a great weekend of racing between the tour and Les Gets...the family is going to get tortured with bike racing on TV in my house (or most likely i'll be out voted and kicked out to watch it in my garage/pain cave)


I find Kate interesting to watch the last few years. She clearly puts in the work. And she's usually up front. Just very consistent. I hope she can pull out some more wins at world cups the next few years. She was the "young gun" not long ago that looked like would dominate for the next years. And while she did win the overall, and have nice results, she's not dominated per se. Now here comes a couple of new young guns, and they too look like they'll dominate for years. But that's not the way it seems to go for some reason. That's what makes the next few years great. The "old" vets, PFP, Neff, all of them are going to really have everything go their way.

But I don't get the giant tires yet. 2.2 seems good to me, and not super squishy either. I just raced Sunday at the Trek headquarters own trails, absolutely KILLER trails by the way, first time open to the public...and I put on a slightly more knobbier front tire, their XR2, and loved the extra grip for cornering. So I can see a 2.4 up front, and a 2.2 out back. I might try that someday.

The only issue I have with manufacturers changing stuff like XC travel, is for us old guys who like 100mm travel and 2.2 tires, we are screwed. Soon enough there will be no 100mm FS race bikes, as everyone will jump on the bandwagon, and that's the end. Trek already did that. 120mm Top Fuel, or 60mm Supercaliber. No more 100. Scott now too, then Specialized will only be 120, then no one will want to be left behind, and suddenly everyone has to ride 120mm XC race bikes whether they need it or not.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> But I don't get the giant tires yet. 2.2 seems good to me, and not super squishy either. I just raced Sunday at the Trek headquarters own trails, absolutely KILLER trails by the way, first time open to the public...and I put on a slightly more knobbier front tire, their XR2, and loved the extra grip for cornering. So I can see a 2.4 up front, and a 2.2 out back. I might try that someday.


Yep, i don't think she ran those 2.4's at the last WC she raced so i think she is trying to take it easy on the rough stuff because of her injury. It did not appear to slow her down, although the competition was not that deep and the course looked really tame. Coverage on Flo in the US was pretty bad and was just Bart musing on, but hey better than nothing. If she can keep injury free i think she'll be primed for the Olympics but i still have seen/hear little on the course.
Regarding bigger travel for XC...i still think 100mm is the sweat spot but its all course dependent. If the XC's keep getting more techy then there will be a need and everyone will be racing with enduro/trail bike setups and gearing to climb..who knows maybe 2x or 3x's will come back!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

mackdhagen said:


> Yep, i don't think she ran those 2.4's at the last WC she raced so i think she is trying to take it easy on the rough stuff because of her injury. It did not appear to slow her down, although the competition was not that deep and the course looked really tame. Coverage on Flo in the US was pretty bad and was just Bart musing on, but hey better than nothing. If she can keep injury free i think she'll be primed for the Olympics but i still have seen/hear little on the course.
> Regarding bigger travel for XC...i still think 100mm is the sweat spot but its all course dependent. If the XC's keep getting more techy then there will be a need and everyone will be racing with enduro/trail bike setups and gearing to climb..who knows maybe 2x or 3x's will come back!


WC XCO are not getting more techy, not anymore. If anything I think they will begin to get less techy. Safety comes first.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I think nove mesto was more technical than ever!


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## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

I don't think there is anything wrong with moving to 120 mm if the suspension technology is good enough to keep the overall bike as responsive as a 100 mm bike. I don't think a single number defines the characteristics of a bike.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Mamil1 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with moving to 120 mm if the suspension technology is good enough to keep the overall bike as responsive as a 100 mm bike. I don't think a single number defines the characteristics of a bike.


So where does it tip over? 140mm? 200mm? At some point it becomes a negative for xc racing, the same with tire size. No doubt the 2.4 tire is better downhill as is 200mm of travel.


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## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

It tips over when it is slower solution for a given course. As technology progresses, that number will change. I ride an anthem which doesn't even have 100 mm of rear travel. If someone offered me 30 mm of non wallowy controlled travel without an weight increase I would take it.

The Spark is an example of technology progressing. It has a three position lockout so you could ride it as a 80 mm bike most of the time and only use 120 mm on the downhills.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Mamil1 said:


> It tips over when it is slower solution for a given course. As technology progresses, that number will change. I ride an anthem which doesn't even have 100 mm of rear travel. If someone offered me 30 mm of non wallowy controlled travel without an weight increase I would take it.
> 
> The Spark is an example of technology progressing. It has a three position lockout so you could ride it as a 80 mm bike most of the time and only use 120 mm on the downhills.


Nothing is free


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Correct. There are ways to limit travel that aren't obvious to the onlooker, such as internal travel spacers in the shock. With a good lockout, you can make a bit more travel work, because you basically run the lockout 80% of the time or more and only turn it off for the gnarly descents. The whole idea of the suspension systems in XC, besides traction and some comfort, is the rear end and the lockout should deliver hardtail-like power transfer. Of course, varying ability levels can skew things, but in general, more travel is slower in these situations. No one in their right mind is going to choose a 120mm bike IME when they can go with 100, for an XC race (edit: no one who expects to be competative). Even with DH-specific trails, we were at the KOM times downhill on our XC bikes a few weeks ago when we used some of those trails on our XC race. It simply takes some crazy black to double-black terrain with nasty chutes and big drops to make a longer-travel bike faster. People tend to under-estimate how fast they can go on an XC bike downhill and they tend to over-estimate their climbing and ability to maintain high output. More than 100mm isn't a death sentence by any means, but 99% of the time, it's not going to make you faster. Also consider if your speed is slightly faster on a DH, you make pick up a second. If your speed is slightly faster on a climb, you'll pick up way more time, due to how much longer you spend on the uphill comparatively.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Mamil1 said:


> The Spark is an example of technology progressing.


As with all forms of progress, it's impossible to know _a priori_ what will, and will not be, progressing. If only the Scott-SRAM team adopts the changes, and they don't race well with them, then the concept will die/iterate backward.



peabody said:


> Nothing is free


Precisely.



Jayem said:


> No one in their right mind is going to choose a 120mm bike IME when they can go with 100, for an XC race (edit: no one who expects to be competitive).


I suppose it depends on how much you think people like Nino have over the iteration process of their bikes. I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to run a 120 for a given course, just the same as there are legitimate reasons to occasionally prefer the hardtail.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bikeranzin said:


> I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to run a 120 for a given course, just the same as there are legitimate reasons to occasionally prefer the hardtail.


While you are sure of this, I would say it's such a small fraction of a whole number as to be insignificant and in the "noise". The opposite would be just as true, where it might be nice to have a little more travel, you will get by with less just fine and won't see any noticeable change in time due to it. Nothing that you could actually attribute to how much suspension was or was not present.

If you are wanting to do dual duty with your XC race bike and accept the slight loss of performance or if you are a bike company looking to sell more bikes, realizing that the hardcore XC race market is extremely small, then yes, it seems to make more sense. But for the sole purpose of racing XC, I would disagree every time. I've ridden plenty of rough XC races with good technical, yet I've not found one where my 100mm of travel was limiting me. With enough top 10 finishes and a few wins, I feel pretty confident in this.

Again, people tend to vastly under-estimate what you can get away with as far as nasty and rocky terrain on an XC bike downhill and then going uphill and on the flats every little advantage in weight and efficiency matters. I would say most aren't pushing their XC bikes on the downhill to the limits of their capabilities.

Now, what is most "comfortable" going downhill is an entirely different matter. If you are going to select the most "comfortable" bike downhill, you are going to have penalties on the flats and uphills.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

More than +20mm travel, i love my new Sid's 35mm stanchions over 32mm, so smooth and compliant over roots and stuff, love it!

On other words, MVDP seems to be in a crazy form at the moment, absolutely crushing competitors on stage 2 and very impressive 5th place on timetrial, discipline that he hasn't showed any good results before. Interesting to see how much of that form can he carry to Tokyo.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Super cycling weekend!!! Who do you got in Les Gets?

Women - I honestly can't pick against LL going for 4 in row, Beca will be up there but would definitely calling out PFP for a victory here...
Dark horse: Kate
Men - Mat Fluck should win...Pidcock, Nino, Victor and Cink will give battle...but rooting for Sarrou winning
Dark horse: Dascalu

I'm keeping my tradition of not picking the same racers and always rooting for a someone that can win out of the blue...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Pidcock is racing?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, Ineos tweeted showing him training on course today.....However, will be interesting to see his form.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

My picks:

Women:
1. Jenny
2. Loana
3. Eve


Men:
1. Cooper
2. Koretzky
3. Flueckiger


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

My pics
Ladies:
1. L.L
2. Jenny
3. Batten
Men
1.Flucky
2. cooper
3. piddy


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> My picks:
> 
> Women:
> 1. Jenny
> ...


I thought about Jenny, but wasn't sure. Cooper seemed logical for me also after his ride in Leogang and his progress through out the season, but I think the Supercaliber is a cursed bike!!!

And both of those are new picks for you, right? Don't seem to recall them...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wow...Fluck is flying right now!!!

PFP did a super ride on the XCC...LL way back!!! Sunday is shaping for a great day of racing...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

My picks were 
Jenny 
Loana 
Martina 

Tom 
Ondrej 
Alan. 
Loana was a risk because the XCC course wouldn't play to her strengths hence I slotted Jenny into my team. 

I dropped Matthias because I don't think he will beat Ondrej and Tom on Sunday. 
Alan came in 5th and keeps improving. 

Tom got unlucky with that front wheel wash out after having to tighten his line as Sarrou switched him. Crappy move Jordan.

Looking forward to Sunday now. Only problem is it's work on Monday again :l


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> My picks were
> Jenny
> Loana
> Martina
> ...


Yep...I just saw the crash...lucky he was not hurt...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> Tom got unlucky with that front wheel wash out after having to tighten his line as Sarrou switched him. Crappy move Jordan.


Washout? I thought he was was switching from outside to inside and clipped Sarrou's rear?
Tom certainly knows how to give viewers a heart attack!
He was running Cross Kings too. Better grass grip?

PFP was one of the only women flat landing the drops too, every one else was very nose heavy.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Men's race was amazing, so much attacking all the time, awesome!
Pidcock 2 laps after his crash, coming from behind were 3 and 5 seconds faster than the front guys

PFP did a smart race, following Rissweds until last lap

Predicitons for sunday : Pidcock - Flückiger - Cink


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

That attack by Rissveds with two laps to go was impressive.
The lead three girls lap time that lap: 2:02.

The median mens lap time with 2 to go: 2:00
Pidcock who was chasing with everything he had: 1:53.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

I believe Mathias had the penultimate lap at 1:50. 

I didn't pay attention to the time for the final lap, though.

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> Tom got unlucky with that front wheel wash out after having to tighten his line as Sarrou switched him. Crappy move Jordan.


I totally disagree -- that crash was all on Piddock. One would figure with his road and cross experience he'd know how to ride in a tight group and avoid wheels. Sarrrou had the line and the lead, it's on Piddock to take the appropriate line/evasive action.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Novice mistake by Pidcock, he was gonna overtake on the outside and suddenly turns to the inside, I think Tokyo will not be kind with him. 

Surprised to see Lecomte so far back, maybe she has burned out before olympics.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Ptor said:


> I totally disagree -- that crash was all on Piddock. One would figure with his road and cross experience he'd know how to ride in a tight group and avoid wheels. Sarrrou had the line and the lead, it's on Piddock to take the appropriate line/evasive action.


watched it again and you're right, he was on the wrong side of Sarrou so my apologies to Jordan


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Renzo7 said:


> I believe Mathias had the penultimate lap at 1:50.


That's not what that word means.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Silentfoe said:


> That's not what that word means.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


😆 Insert Princess Bride meme.

The Brits (and when I say Brits, I mean Rob Warner) love that word, and it really doesn't seem to serve a useful purpose.... who cares about the second to last lap?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> I believe Mathias had the penultimate lap at 1:50.





Silentfoe said:


> That's not what that word means.


If you intuitively substitute the word "rode" for "had" then he wrote exactly what he intended.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Silentfoe said:


> That's not what that word means.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Which word, Silentfoe?

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Renzo7 said:


> Which word, Silentfoe?
> 
> Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


Your use of "penultimate".

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Silentfoe said:


> Your use of "penultimate".


I'm not sure what you're on about. 99 of 100 people would have read the post to be exactly how it was intended, which was that Matthias' 2nd last lap (his penultimate lap, used perfectly correctly) of 1m50s was very quick relative to the field. In particular, it was quicker than Pidcock's 1m53s.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Circlip said:


> I'm not sure what you're on about. 99 of 100 people would have read the post to be exactly how it was intended, which was that Matthias' 2nd last lap (his penultimate lap, used perfectly correctly) of 1m50s was very quick relative to the field. In particular, it was quicker than Pidcock's 1m53s.


Except that isn't what he wrote. I won't beat this. His use of the word was incorrect.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Silentfoe said:


> Your use of "penultimate".
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Which would you suggest should be the correct sentence or word, Silentfoe?

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

@Silentfoe what are you, spell/grammar check? The sentence was fine. And factually correct.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you, Circlip and MattMay. That's what I believe, as well. I was interested in knowing what Silentfoe would have said in place of penultimate, in case he's interested in sharing. 

Oxford Dictionary's definition of penultimate leads me to believe that it was correctly used, too.

Tomorrow's races should be awesome! I'm rooting for Mathias and Haley. 

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

As a non-native english speaker I'm also surprised, what is wrong with "penultimate" and his sentence, seems to make perfect sense to me.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Renzo7 said:


> Thank you, Circlip and MattMay. That's what I believe, as well. I was interested in knowing what Silentfoe would have said in place of penultimate, in case he's interested in sharing.
> 
> Oxford Dictionary's definition of penultimate leads me to believe that it was correctly used, too.
> 
> ...


I can't see what was wrong with the sentence structure either.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Well this is certainly a "fun times" race for the ladies!


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Another race for silver?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Haha, completelty off topic, but just thought was hilarious. Watched the womens race, great, just swiched over to watch the Austrian GP and...they have some metal band rocking out the national anthem...ahhh Austrians, they crazy.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ol’ LMN making an appearance on Redbull today!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Well I super enjoyed that! Who says you can’t win a race on DH?

Anyone know tire combos for Flückiger and Cink? Cink seemed to be sliding a lot more....but was making huge gains going up. Flu was losing time up but massive gains going down. Wondered if tire choice played any role?

also: so much fun watching Flückiger do tail whips with a race on the line!


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## J21 (Dec 11, 2020)

smartyiak said:


> Well I super enjoyed that! Who says you can't win a race on DH?
> 
> Anyone know tire combos for Flückiger and Cink? Cink seemed to be sliding a lot more....but was making huge gains going up. Flu was losing time up but massive gains going down. Wondered if tire choice played any role?
> 
> also: so much fun watching Flückiger do tail whips with a race on the line!


Dirty Dans for Flückiger. Looked like Lecomte also had full-on muds, she visibly had more grip and was riding was tighter lines faster than everyone else.


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## Kirsa (Jul 5, 2011)

J21 said:


> Dirty Dans for Flückiger. Looked like Lecomte also had full-on muds, she visibly had more grip and was riding was tighter lines faster than everyone else.


Some special version? Schwalbe web says they have only 1.3kg 2,35" Downhill version - they didn't look 2,35"-s to me and elite racers are so lightweight it would be very weird.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

29x2.0 dirty dan prototypes


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> 29x2.0 dirty dan prototypes


Yep those tires were skinny and knobby. Schwalbe has nothing like it on their website for sale so have to be a prototype.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Did anyone else enjoy the first lap battle between PFP and Loana? Loana was not backing down despite PFP trying to elbow her out of the way. I'm really liking the determination she displays.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Did anyone else enjoy the first lap battle between PFP and Loana? Loana was not backing down despite PFP trying to elbow her out of the way. I'm really liking the determination she displays.


She appears to be very bashful but shes a fiesty little one lol. Word in the paddock was she was massively disappointed with her performance in the short track. Very competitive, very focussed, incredibly friendly when she's wound down


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## RiKMc (Aug 9, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Yep those tires were skinny and knobby. Schwalbe has nothing like it on their website for sale so have to be a prototype.


I think they're closeouts, not prototypes. They're at Dirty Dan | Schwalbe Tires North America. They were probably the difference maker. Mud tires are truly amazing in mud, but they're a pretty niche item for people who just cannot opt out of riding in those conditions.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

For men, I think now the medal predictions at Olympics are safe bet. Van der Poel for gold, then Pidcock then Mathias for Bronze.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

So were Scott racers on a new Maxxis tire? It's nothing I recognize. Should have used skinny Forecasters.


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## RiKMc (Aug 9, 2011)

kevbikemad said:


> So were Scott racers on a new Maxxis tire? It's nothing I recognize. Should have used skinny Forecasters.


It doesn't look like anything in their catalog. Nor is it a Beaver, which was Maxxis' mud tire until it was discontinued. I would've thought they'd have a stash of those just for a race like this. I think Nino was the only one in the top 5 not on an old school skinny mud tire. He can probably take it as a positive indicator of his form.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

bec mcconnell looked to be running 2.4's


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

kevbikemad said:


> So were Scott racers on a new Maxxis tire? It's nothing I recognize. Should have used skinny Forecasters.


Yes they are on a new prototype mud tires


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Mechanics love to deflect. Sponsored riders get access to all products from their sponsor. Old and new. If it doesn't exist, make it from a product in the portfolio. Cutting tread blocks to mod a tyre is normal practice in DH. It's an easy way to make a mud tyre too. If the Dirty Dan 2.0 was available in NA then Schwalbe would have pulled stock for their teams. They have a product sponsorship manager that talks to the teams about needs before the season starts and then acquires those items. An experienced team manager will ensure mud tyres are in the box even if they only get used once a year. For a privateer contis mud king 1.8 is tops


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

RiKMc said:


> It doesn't look like anything in their catalog. Nor is it a Beaver, which was Maxxis' mud tire until it was discontinued. I would've thought they'd have a stash of those just for a race like this. I think Nino was the only one in the top 5 not on an old school skinny mud tire. He can probably take it as a positive indicator of his form.


Not sure why Nino and Scott would still be running a bit wider tires in mud, it just doesn't seem to work as well as a true skinny mud tire. I used to have a set of Maxxis Beavers 2.0 tires for muddy races, they were absolutely amazing in mud and slippery conditions.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> So were Scott racers on a new Maxxis tire? It's nothing I recognize. Should have used skinny Forecasters.


There were using a new "Extreme conditions" tire. I haven't ridden one myself yet. Probably an awesome tire for wet mountain bike trails, but on muddy grassy slopes it came up missing a bit. That is why a lot of teams missed the tire, they had tires for wet mountain bike trails not off camber grass.

Conditions that tough are super rare. That was Catharine's 100th world cup and it was probably the worst conditions they has raced in. She has done wetter races (Bromont 2008) but that was wet single track. The only race she had ever done that compared to that one was worlds in 2004, which was in Les Gets.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

LMN said:


> There were using a new "Extreme conditions" tire. I haven't ridden one myself yet. Probably an awesome tire for wet mountain bike trails, but on muddy grassy slopes it came up missing a bit. That is why a lot of teams missed the tire, they had tires for wet mountain bike trails not off camber grass.
> 
> Conditions that tough are super rare. That was Catharine's 100th world cup and it was probably the worst conditions they has raced in. She has done wetter races (Bromont 2008) but that was wet single track. The only race she had ever done that compared to that one was worlds in 2004, which was in Les Gets.


Congrats on 100 WCs! That's very impressive.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Congrats to Mr. LMN on the Tokyo Olympics selection!!!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Congrats to Mr. LMN on the Tokyo Olympics selection!!!


share please . where is this news posted?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> share please . where is this news posted?


Might be on several outlets by now, but here's where I saw it:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/who-will-be-racing-in-the-tokyo-2021-olympic-mountain-bike-race.html


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Loved to see the copious use of nose wheelie turns to take the high line on the off camber roots, pretty cool that this was the common strategy


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Circlip said:


> Might be on several outlets by now, but here's where I saw it:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/who-will-be-racing-in-the-tokyo-2021-olympic-mountain-bike-race.html


Wow, no Simon Andreassen?  Never even heard of Sebastian Fini.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

bananajoe said:


> Wow, no Simon Andreassen?  Never even heard of Sebastian Fini.


Ask Bart Brentjens...

Sebastian Fini Carsten had better early season results than Simon Andreassen. He usually hangs around Top 20.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

bananajoe said:


> Wow, no Simon Andreassen?  Never even heard of Sebastian Fini.


He's called Sebastian Fini Carstensen in all the World Cup results, rather than Sebastian Fini for some reason. He was 39th overall at the Les Gets World Cup but has had some good results earlier in the year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> share please . where is this news posted?


First place I saw it was Instagram post from Mrs. LMN...later few other websites broke the news. I even double checked on Canadian Cyclist website.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Red Bull TV Replay Women's XCO Race Les Gets 04 July 2021








Women's XCO final – Les Gets


A revised XCO track adds to the excitement as riders race for a chance to stand on the podium in Les Gets.




www.redbull.com





Red Bull TV Replay Men's XCO Race Les Gets 04 July 2021








Men's XCO final – Les Gets


Check out the men's cross-country final as riders take on the newly revised track at Les Gets.




www.redbull.com





Results from Pinkbike


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-les-gets-xc-world-cup-2021.html



Pictures Les Gets from Pinkbike


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-the-rain-the-mud-and-the-suffering-les-gets-xc-world-cup-2021.html



There was a post race interview with Loana Lecomte where she was saying about what went wrong in the Friday short track race. She said she'd fallen off in practice the Tuesday before and hit her head, then for the short track race she'd forgotten to eat enough beforehand so was low on energy. She then added that for the XCO race she had eaten properly beforehand so was strong again.

Loana Lecomte wasn't looking completely unbeatable in the XCO race though. Compared to the races earlier in the year, where she was in a different league and disappeared into the distance from the start, Pauline Ferrand Prevot and particularly Jenny Rissveds looked like they were a lot closer in performance. They lost time due to falling off, rather than because Loana Lecomte was much quicker on the climbs. It could be even closer again at the Olympics I think.

For the men's race although he was 5th at 1 minute 21 seconds behind Mathias Fluckiger at Les Gets I thought Nino Schurter was looking a lot better. He wasn't quite on the pace, being about 10 seconds per lap slower, but compared to how he was going in the previous few races he's quite possibly going to be in very good form for the Olympics too.

Scroll down to the results in the Pinkbike link above and next to each finishing time they also list the lap times.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Congrats to Pendrel for securing the spot. To outsiders, the canada selection makes perfect sense, Batty the other contender has had awful results this season and past season was so so as well. Tough luck, but even with Pendrel pregnancy she looked to be the stronger choice in the past 2 years.


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## Ketzal (Oct 30, 2016)

I think because of her crash and conditions, many failed to notice Jenny's crazy form. She's obviously timed her peak perfectly. Loana has peaked too early. The gold medal will go to PFP or Rissveds.

That's my call.

Men's.

Pidcock
MVDP
Fluckiger

The only reason I have MVDP in second is the heat issue. He does not race well in the heat. It could really hurt him. If that's the case and he doesn't perfectly heat train, insert any other relevant name. It could actually be Nino. He goes well in the heat and obviously, big races etc.

It may be a tight race for the men's podium.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I'm not willing to count Loana out quite yet, the conditions on Sunday were quite an anomaly. That being said, Jenny and PFP look to have timed their peaks perfectly. It would be quite the event if Jenny were to repeat her gold.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

Ketzal said:


> I think because of her crash and conditions, many failed to notice Jenny's crazy form. She's obviously timed her peak perfectly. Loana has peaked too early. The gold medal will go to PFP or Rissveds.
> 
> That's my call.
> 
> ...


MVDP just posted on instagram that he is doing a heat acclimitization camp.

Also: he just raced the TDF which is hot as F. They race mid-day, I'm guessing he'll do pretty well in the heat.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Perhaps you missed the several days in cold rain, snow on the ground, and riders not being able to feel their fingers.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

kevbikemad said:


> Not sure why Nino and Scott would still be running a bit wider tires in mud, it just doesn't seem to work as well as a true skinny mud tire. I used to have a set of Maxxis Beavers 2.0 tires for muddy races, they were absolutely amazing in mud and slippery conditions.


Maxxis Severe 2.25 is the new mud tire. Scott-sram team use 26mm rim for the mud tires and 30mm rim for 2.4 aspen or rekon race.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Huge congrats to Mrs LMN on her selection. New moms will do anything to get a little time to themselves . 
Enjoy the trip to Tokyo Pendrels and stay safe


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> Huge congrats to Mrs LMN on her selection. New moms will do anything to get a little time to themselves .
> Enjoy the trip to Tokyo Pendrels and stay safe


Thank you!

She actually gets a solo trip to Tokyo! Myself and the baby would be locked in a hotel room for 10 days if we went. I would go insane. Instead, headed to Revelstoke to stay with my parents, which is a pretty good option given that Revelstoke has arguably the best trails on the planet.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Thank you!
> 
> She actually gets a solo trip to Tokyo! Myself and the baby would be locked in a hotel room for 10 days if we went. I would go insane. Instead, headed to Revelstoke to stay with my parents, which is a pretty good option given that Revelstoke has arguably the best trails on the planet.


Superb sounds like an excellent plan


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Loana won a french nationals by a huge margin, looks like she may hold on to her form until Olympics.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

There's obviously a lot of extra capacity there that allows her to stay on form.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Anybody know what the material was that they used on the down tube to mitigate mud sticking? Bart and rob explained it as some sort of foam with pointy ridges...seams to me like it would just create more surface area for mud to stick...plus adding weight to the bike for the strip.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Those things didn't look like they did anything at all. The mud seems to always stick behind the BB and chain and seat stays for me. The downtube is the least of my worry. I was surprised no one had a big squirt bottle and ran alongside squirting off the drivetrain on each lap. That would be kind of cool. Almost like a Cross race without the bike swap. But overall, there really weren't many bike issues after all. It's been a long time since I rode in that kind of mud. Most races are just cancelled around here if it's that bad. But the 2016 Iceman Cometh, or was it 2014, the only time I raced that, was even worse then Les Gets. 35 miles of ice rain, rain rain, 10" mud, my bike was completely destroyed at the end. And so was I. that was fun for about 10 minutes.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Also, is it feasible that Loana beats even Nino for the best season ever? All world cups, Olympic Gold, French Champion, Euro Champion, World Champion? I mean it's not completely nuts to think she could do it all.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Yep, i noticed the same...they did not work that well (if at all?).. I think some of the guys had their pit crew squirt off their drive trains as they came through, Pidcock anyway had people for that..BTW what happened with him bailing out of the XC...he was up there for the first few laps then dropped out. Searched the webs and could not find out he why's and hows.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mackdhagen said:


> Yep, i noticed the same...they did not work that well (if at all?).. I think some of the guys had their pit crew squirt off their drive trains as they came through, Pidcock anyway had people for that..BTW what happened with him bailing out of the XC...he was up there for the first few laps then dropped out. Searched the webs and could not find out he why's and hows.


Collarbone was too sore.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Also, is it feasible that Loana beats even Nino for the best season ever? All world cups, Olympic Gold, French Champion, Euro Champion, World Champion? I mean it's not completely nuts to think she could do it all.


She'd have to throw in the Absa Cape Epic as well


----------



## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I saw a picture later on that sure made it look like duct tape on Nino's downtube. Either the bumps let the tape "shake it off" with the bike movement or Fluekiger looked like he had the top of the strip off to the left of his frame to tear it off to dump a bunch of mud.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, it looked like plain old duct tape, probably heavily treated with non stick spray.


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Cerpss said:


> I saw a picture later on that sure made it look like duct tape on Nino's downtube. Either the bumps let the tape "shake it off" with the bike movement or Fluekiger looked like he had the top of the strip off to the left of his frame to tear it off to dump a bunch of mud.


That's what I read. Adds a bit of up front weight but if it clogs up and is covered in mud you can dump and save a pound on the fly.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

It is just ducting tape. The bellows configuration allows it to be pulled easily from the frame. Somehow I think a portable high pressure washer makes more sense.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> It is just ducting tape. The bellows configuration allows it to be pulled easily from the frame. Somehow I think a portable high pressure washer makes more sense.


I think there is a no pressure washer in the pits rule for mountain bike racing.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Fireman hose then? Volume rules . Park that fire engine over there please.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I think there is a no pressure washer in the pits rule for mountain bike racing.


Really??!! When did that happen. It would not surprise me as the UCI have implemented some bizarre rules over the years


----------



## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Olympics. Does anyone know a website where the big races on Monday and Tuesday can be streamed?


----------



## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

GCN+/Eurosport has them all, just need a VPN if not available where you are. Otherwise likely the network carrying the rest of the Olympics in your country.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cal_len1 said:


> GCN+/Eurosport has them all, just need a VPN if not available where you are. Otherwise likely the network carrying the rest of the Olympics in your country.


I'm reminded of some of the mtb commentary from previous Olympics, not done by mountain bikers. The "expert" analyst kept talking about how the big difference between road and mtb was that if there was a bike problem then there wasn't a support team following the rider around the course to help or to swap bikes.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Yeah, I'm not sure who they will have. Dan was a pro XC rider for a while, but unless they are pulling in someone new, I don't have much hope. If only RedBull had this race too...


----------



## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Olympic tv coverage has been bad in the past, in that they keep the cameras on only the leader, and don't show much of the drama happening behind. So if Loana gets a minute plus lead, we will miss the more exciting back and forth battles amongst the next tightly grouped 10 racers for 2nd and 3rd .


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

scottg said:


> I'm reminded of some of the mtb commentary from previous Olympics, not done by mountain bikers. The "expert" analyst kept talking about how the big difference between road and mtb was that if there was a bike problem then there wasn't a support team following the rider around the course to help or to swap bikes.


Yes, this is always a problem; commentators used to road & track, and have no expert insights to the technical nature of the sport.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cal_len1 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure who they will have. Dan was a pro XC rider for a while, but unless they are pulling in someone new, I don't have much hope. If only RedBull had this race too...


I'm in Canada, and I'm not sure who they had doing it - there may have been more than one, since the Olympics were on multiple networks. It was memorable though


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Surely mtb is way more popular than track. Agree with you, and surprised this is still an issue in 2021


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

madfella said:


> Surely mtb is way more popular than track. Agree with you, and surprised this is still an issue in 2021


no way. Huge barriers compared to track. Track is the soccer of the endurance world. Anyone with talent (genetics) time and a pair of shoes can set the world on fire. Track has successful athletes from literally all corners of the earth. Cycling and mtb competitively have significant logistic and financial hurdles. Can't get to the Olympics on a huffy. 
the 100 dash and marathon are considered two of the cornerstone, premier events of the entire games. The marathon was at the first modern Olympics, literally a century before mtb was added in Atlanta.
I certainly love road, track and mtb cycling, but in the context of the Olympics especially are not as significant as t+f.
Track and field has its share of crap coverage too: random sportscasters used to nba and nfl trying to stumble their way through the Boston marathon coverage. Ouch. I totally wish Red Bull was doing the coverage. That being said, Leslie Tomlinson who represented Canada in mtb in 96 and 2000 is an analyst for the CBC coverage, so I've got hopes it will turn out well. Experienced talented athletes don't always translate to being eloquent or insightful.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think he meant MTB is more popular than track cycling - not track & field (athletics).


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

cal_len1 said:


> &#8230;If only RedBull had this race too...


This. I was just thinking this. The Red Bull commentary is decent, but it's really the cameras that they've dialed in. The angles, the multi cam, the locations&#8230;.RB has really nailed XCO coverage&#8230;since RB isn't providing coverage, I hope NBC steals their ideas.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I'm assuming that the host broadcaster will have the feed for all of the sports, then any of the local networks will add commentary, kinda like the road cycling events. So we will see how the locals do in setting up the cameras, because this course is a lot different than Rio, so more cameras are definitely needed.


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I think he meant MTB is more popular than track cycling - not track & field (athletics).


Doh 😣


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

scottg said:


> I'm in Canada, and I'm not sure who they had doing it - there may have been more than one, since the Olympics were on multiple networks. It was memorable though


English commentator is Lesley Thomolson (1996 MTB Olympian), I believe French is Matthew Toulouse (former national team MTB racer).


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> English commentator is Lesley Thomolson (1996 MTB Olympian), I believe French is Matthew Toulouse (former national team MTB racer).


a French male accent should get the ladies ovaries raising applause


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> English commentator is Lesley Thomolson (1996 MTB Olympian), I believe French is Matthew Toulouse (former national team MTB racer).


Mathieu is also a 2-time Canadian national MTB champion if I remember correctly. Tomlinson was an Olympian in both 1996 and 2000 I think.


----------



## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

LMN said:


> English commentator is Lesley Thomolson (1996 MTB Olympian), I believe French is Matthew Toulouse (former national team MTB racer).


Can't find the mens XC listed on Cable TV?


----------



## Jurgiuks (Apr 5, 2015)

So olympic gold was won on Suntour suspension?


----------



## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Jurgiuks said:


> So olympic gold was won on Suntour suspension?


Because only amateurs think the bike wins races.


----------



## J21 (Dec 11, 2020)

Jurgiuks said:


> So olympic gold was won on Suntour suspension?


SunTour with no remote lockouts either by the looks of it


----------



## aussie_yeti (Apr 27, 2004)

During practice at world cups he was using prototype suspension with electronics. No doubt that's what he was running for olympics. Some kind of automatic lockout/sensors etc? Ineos probably chose Suntour as they were willing to partner with them and develop it. Their Axon fork is actually quite good.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

J21 said:


> SunTour with no remote lockouts either by the looks of it


There seems to be a cable of some type to the top of the fork...


----------



## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

And a Conti Raceking....old, really really old school 2.2 tire in brand new testing compound (if you believe it) and 2.3 front dimension.

Just as Schurter resurrected the dead and burried aspen, I am sensing Race Kings will be seen rolling in numbers again.


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh I love RaceKings, i know most people don't, but I love em.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I believe the Race King was updated a couple years ago. It seems to be a really fast tire. He probably would run the Cross King if it had been wet.


----------



## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

@mik_git Race King is great tire. X-king (or nowadays Cross King) on the other side is worse tire ever... by far!  That's good thing of being hobby rider and I don't need to care if front tire is one company, rear tire is another


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I use RaceKing almost all the time. It is a super fast rolling tire with decent grip. Now, if you look closely, you will see some wordin not on par with current Cinto RaceKing found in shops...


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Pauline with ralphs instead of Vittoria? !!!


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

France Team stated that ir was a bad tire choice for everybody.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

primoz said:


> @mik_git Race King is great tire. X-king (or nowadays Cross King) on the other side is worse tire ever... by far!  That's good thing of being hobby rider and I don't need to care if front tire is one company, rear tire is another


I've actually been pretty happy with the Cross King on the front. Decent grip and predictable.


----------



## rideveryhard (Mar 22, 2012)

carlostruco said:


> France Team stated that ir was a bad tire choice for everybody.


Yes, read this in a few places. I don't buy into it. I just cannot fathom how they could not use the right tyre. They've had 5 years to prepare for this, test event, many laps of the course (I assume in the dry and wet). Didn't France have some sort of replica of the course back home?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

rideveryhard said:


> Yes, read this in a few places. I don't buy into it. I just cannot fathom how they could not use the right tyre. They've had 5 years to prepare for this, test event, many laps of the course (I assume in the dry and wet). Didn't France have some sort of replica of the course back home?


Unless they imported a couple hundred tons of the soil from Izu, I'm not sure how a replica of the course would help them determine the right tire choice.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rideveryhard said:


> Yes, read this in a few places. I don't buy into it. I just cannot fathom how they could not use the right tyre. They've had 5 years to prepare for this, test event, many laps of the course (I assume in the dry and wet). Didn't France have some sort of replica of the course back home?


The heavy rain the night before the race through them off. You can see both Pauline and Loana were a traditional mud tire (narrow with super tall knobs). In super wet conditions (Les Gets) these are amazing, in dry or even normal wet conditions they are absolutely terrible.

If the race start had been an hour earlier they would have had the right tires, but the course dried considerable during the race. They went from the right tire to a terrible tire.

Traditional mud-tires have a very narrow performance band, if you hit that band you make everyone else look juniors (Loana at Les Gets) but the opposite happens outside of that.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

MvDP has just confirmed he's going to race World Champs at Val Di Sole which is a venue he won the World Cup in 2019 dropping Nino and Mat Fluck on the long climb before a very nasty drop. I just added a lot of stuff to that simple statement, but it's all true...


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Mathieu van der Poel gaat via WK mountainbike naar WK op de weg


Wie denkt dat Mathieu van der Poel lang in zak en as zat na zijn val gisteren tijdens de olympische mountainbike-wedstrijd, heeft het mis. De 26-jarige Nederlander kijkt alweer vooruit en heeft een nieuwe stip op de horizon gezet: het WK mountainbiken in Val di Sole op 28 augustus. “Het zou mooi...




www.wielerflits.nl





Google translate.....


----------



## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Glad to hear he'll be getting back on the horse right away, good man.



Exmuhle said:


> Mathieu van der Poel gaat via WK mountainbike naar WK op de weg
> 
> 
> Wie denkt dat Mathieu van der Poel lang in zak en as zat na zijn val gisteren tijdens de olympische mountainbike-wedstrijd, heeft het mis. De 26-jarige Nederlander kijkt alweer vooruit en heeft een nieuwe stip op de horizon gezet: het WK mountainbiken in Val di Sole op 28 augustus. “Het zou mooi...
> ...


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Reading between the lines, I see some anger in him - he wants to prove a point. 
Anger before XCO worlds, road worlds and Roubaix may be a good thing, but also may backfire. We'll see soon enough. He won't be missing competition though. Everybody is back on all fronts.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> I've actually been pretty happy with the Cross King on the front. Decent grip and predictable.


I agree with decent grip, but at least for me, this predictable is the thing I have issues with. With Schwalbe or Maxxis I can feel tire is starting to lose grip. With X/Cross King it holds perfectly and then all of a sudden without any warning, it loses all the grip in second. After few crashes, I took almost new tire off and never look at it again. After few years I was stupid enough to think that maybe Cross King would be better then X King, and I tried Cross King... same results, so now I'm avoiding them like they would be infected 
But maybe it's just me, and for someone else it works differently.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Ralphs(Pauline was on Ralphs) are not mud tires!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

LMN said:


> The heavy rain the night before the race through them off. You can see both Pauline and Loana were a traditional mud tire (narrow with super tall knobs). In super wet conditions (Les Gets) these are amazing, in dry or even normal wet conditions they are absolutely terrible.
> 
> If the race start had been an hour earlier they would have had the right tires, but the course dried considerable during the race. They went from the right tire to a terrible tire.
> 
> Traditional mud-tires have a very narrow performance band, if you hit that band you make everyone else look juniors (Loana at Les Gets) but the opposite happens outside of that.


Ralphs(Pauline was on Ralphs) are not mud tires!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

So what tyres were PFP on? Racing Ralph or some type of Mud tyre?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

She did practice on Ralphs, but for race day she had mud tyres :


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Raikzz said:


> She did practice on Ralphs, but for race day she had mud tyres :


Thank you


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Any prognostications/pontifications on the remainder of the World Cup season? Will Nino get a win? Does LL pick up where she left off? Do Pidcock and Neff secure more wins?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Pretty sure Pidcock won't be doing anymore World Cups; he's doing the Vuelta, then Road Worlds, then the 3 CX World Cups in the US in early October.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I think it will continue pretty much the same way, Nino looks stronger than last world cups and could challenge for the win, can Avancini finally found his form this season?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

World champs my picks
Men 
1. Cink
2. MVPD
3. Nino

Women
1. Pauline
2. Sina
3. Neff


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

MattMay said:


> Any prognostications/pontifications on the remainder of the World Cup season? Will Nino get a win? Does LL pick up where she left off? Do Pidcock and Neff secure more wins?


Jolanda Neff and Pauline Ferand Prevot will take the remainder of the season off and start families with their respective mates, Luca Shaw and Julien Absolon. Their daughters will be born with cycling tan lines and body fat percentage of less than 15 percent. Both will go on to race elite XC by the age of 13, with the young Shaw-Neff showing a penchant for risk taking and fast descending, and the young Ferand-Prevot-Absolon able to outclimb most Tour de France polka dot jersey contenders. The two will end up trading wins in world cup races, and occasionally sparring on social media.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Chloe Woodruff not on US team for Worlds?


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> World champs my picks
> Men
> 1. Cink



Cink deserves some good luck for a change


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

paramount3 said:


> Jolanda Neff and Pauline Ferand Prevot will take the remainder of the season off and start families with their respective mates, Luca Shaw and Julien Absolon. Their daughters will be born with cycling tan lines and body fat percentage of less than 15 percent. Both will go on to race elite XC by the age of 13, with the young Shaw-Neff showing a penchant for risk taking and fast descending, and the young Ferand-Prevot-Absolon able to outclimb most Tour de France polka dot jersey contenders. The two will end up trading wins in world cup races, and occasionally sparring on social media.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

ccm said:


> Chloe Woodruff not on US team for Worlds?


She's been on hiatus since the Olympics thing. Just saw on Insta a day or two ago that she got back on a road bike for the first time since all that went down.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Udyr (Jul 29, 2013)

Anyone have any intel on who is or is not running inserts these days?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

UEC European Championships in Novi Sad this week.





__





UEC- Article


Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur viverra nisl sit amet ante tristique




www.uec.ch


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> World champs my picks
> Men
> 1. Cink
> 2. MVPD
> ...


Like the picks, but we have to consider Mat Fluck and LL also. Both have been in superb form this season, and even though the stress of the Olympic Games is behind them, dropping a few levels of form still leaves them contenders for medals at World Champs. No one else has been that consistent besides maybe Sarrou, Cooper, Batten and Becca (if it does not rain). All of them would be my Top 6.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> World champs my picks
> Men
> 1. Cink
> 2. MVPD
> ...


Sam Gaze, baby!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

madfella said:


> Sam Gaze, baby!


The problem with these sports is :
Who are the goodies and baddies?

Most of them are all so devoid of personality. It's like they are scared of saying 'the wrong thing'. 
Us bike-paying spectators need goodies and baddies to root for/to curse. Otherwise it's like watching robots race. 
Tinker Juarez had me sold on my first MTB, cos he was just so cool. Pendrel or Neff could maybe do it. But Holy Toledo, athletes with personality are few and far between these days.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

^ you are not paying attention
Schurter vs Avancini
Neff vs PFP
Gaze vs Cooper
...

you pick the side for each one

but your choices won't be universal


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mik_git said:


> Oh I love RaceKings, i know most people don't, but I love em.


ditto


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Avancini 


__
http://instagr.am/p/CSfE7JeFAjk/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> Avancini
> 
> 
> __
> ...


That's really surprising and odd&#8230;

I sort of saw him as an "up and comer"&#8230; I know that's not exactly the case, but he seemed poised to only get better.

I hope this announcement is genuine and not related to something like a doping positive or health issues.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Man, didn't see this one coming at all. Must be something going on. He had another 3-4 solid years at least ahead of him. Who knows, maybe he's just burned out. The way the last year went with him not doing a normal circuit, the stress, maybe he truly just wanted out. Maybe he comes back in a year like Rissveds did. I often wonder if many of these top athletes wouldn't benefit from just taking a year off. Just the routine for a loser middle of the pack sport racer like myself, every summer, trying to get better, 30+ years now, is enough to make me want to just not do it every few years. I wonder if Nino took 2020 off entirely, then got hungry again, maybe more fun would be part of the reason to come back? Just a theory.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I seriously hope this isn't a Helen Grobert retirement, I remember she claimed she was retiring due to health issues, while there was a doping sanction coming to her unbeknown to the public.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ccm said:


> ^ you are not paying attention
> Schurter vs Avancini
> Neff vs PFP
> Gaze vs Cooper
> ...


Cooper for the win, Gaze for the emotion.
Sam should have a go at that urban short track thingy.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

TDLover said:


> I seriously hope this isn't a Helen Grobert retirement, I remember she claimed she was retiring due to health issues, while there was a doping sanction coming to her unbeknown to the public.


Or a Katie Compton retirement.


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## Bay2 (Sep 21, 2020)

Hopefully not depression of mental health.
His form hasn’t been to his high standards


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Or a Katie Compton retirement.


Also a strange one with a bit of a karmic twist. It wasn't too long ago that she was leading the call to burn riders at the stake when caught doping and using the tainted supplement argument. I feel for her as she probably has a good case but instead has fallen on her sword


----------



## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Brad said:


> Also a strange one with a bit of a karmic twist. It wasn't too long ago that she was leading the call to burn riders at the stake when caught doping and using the tainted supplement argument. I feel for her as she probably has a good case but instead has fallen on her sword


She was merciless towards Denise Betsema. I understood that position, but I thought Betsema's explanation was plausible. I tend towards the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset. Another recent case was Shelby Houlihan (US 1500m runner) who claimed that her positive test was due to eating tainted pork from a taco stand--which it turns out is quite plausible. Perhaps the system needs to be refined in this area. It certainly needs to be refined as to banning of marijuana/cannibanoids, which are not even performance-enhancing drugs. The women's 200m final in Tokyo was great with Elaine Thompson and Shelly Ann Frasier Price--it would have been even better with Sha'Carri Richardson present, had she not been banned from competition for the positive marijuana test. Everybody hates dopers, but how many people are we willing to ruin in the process of finding the true cheaters?

Edit: I meant 100m, not 200m. Elaine Thompson owned the 200m and Sha'Carri wasn't going to spoil that party.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> She was merciless towards Denise Betsema. I understood that position, but I thought Betsema's explanation was plausible. I tend towards the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset. Another recent case was Shelby Houlihan (US 1500m runner) who claimed that her positive test was due to eating tainted pork from a taco stand--which it turns out is quite plausible. Perhaps the system needs to be refined in this area. It certainly needs to be refined as to banning of marijuana/cannibanoids, which are not even performance-enhancing drugs. The women's 200m final in Tokyo was great with Elaine Thompson and Shelly Ann Frasier Price--it would have been even better with Sha'Carri Richardson present, had she not been banned from competition for the positive marijuana test. Everybody hates dopers, but how many people are we willing to ruin in the process of finding the true cheaters?


It is a super hard one.

I do believe that there is a small percentage of athletes who test positive who inadvertently ingested something. Most of the time it is from supplements, unless they are a new athlete, that isn't really an excuse. All the anti-doping courses are basically in bold letters "*DON'T TAKE SUPPLEMENTS!!*" But a new athlete who is progressing quickly may not have had the necessary education and mistakes are made.

Even athletes who are careful get caught out. The story is Betsema had her pharmacist make her supplements to prevent contamination and they still were contaminated. This story sounds complete unbelievable except I know the same thing happened at one the sport science centres in Canada.

Knowing this I always give athletes the benefit of the doubt when they say they are innocent. I am not saying that they shouldn't serve a ban or what ever punishment is given. But should they return I try to look at them like any other athlete.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> It is a super hard one.
> 
> I do believe that there is a small percentage of athletes who test positive who inadvertently ingested something. Most of the time it is from supplements, unless they are a new athlete, that isn't really an excuse. All the anti-doping courses are basically in bold letters "*DON'T TAKE SUPPLEMENTS!!*" But a new athlete who is progressing quickly may not have had the necessary education and mistakes are made.
> 
> ...


its not just the finished product but the ingredient supply chains where the contamination issues lie. A friend of mine participated in an audit of a sports nutrition brand. The findings were ....scary. I don't use that company's product ot even their electrolyte drinks anymore. And they have all the right accreditation for producing clean products


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> Also a strange one with a bit of a karmic twist. It wasn't too long ago that she was leading the call to burn riders at the stake when caught doping and using the tainted supplement argument. I feel for her as she probably has a good case but instead has fallen on her sword


Working out EVERYTHING you ate/drank 5 months previously could be difficult.
If the prior and post tests came back the same, then there is an issue...


MarkL said:


> In early January I contacted an ant-doping agency regarding issues in cyclocross. We had a video conference with the agency while we were in Belgium on January 19th. Hours after the call a lab in LA started re-testing Katie's Sept sample that had previously been declared negative. The result of the retest was positive for exogenous testosterone.


Coincidence?


----------



## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Man, didn't see this one coming at all. Must be something going on. He had another 3-4 solid years at least ahead of him. Who knows, maybe he's just burned out. The way the last year went with him not doing a normal circuit, the stress, maybe he truly just wanted out. Maybe he comes back in a year like Rissveds did. I often wonder if many of these top athletes wouldn't benefit from just taking a year off. Just the routine for a loser middle of the pack sport racer like myself, every summer, trying to get better, 30+ years now, is enough to make me want to just not do it every few years. I wonder if Nino took 2020 off entirely, then got hungry again, maybe more fun would be part of the reason to come back? Just a theory.


HA took off the XCO World Cup season to focus on the Olympics only to finish mid pack. He was expecting/expected to be on the podium and fell well short. It's post Olympic blues and likely a realization he'll never achieve what he wanted. He was in the shadow of Nino for so long and now the new crop of young riders are taking over. HA has little to fight for and like Nino his best days are behind him. Not to say that he can't still complete at the highest levels, but he'll never achieve what he wants.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

MI-XC said:


> HA took off the XCO World Cup season to focus on the Olympics only to finish mid pack. He was expecting/expected to be on the podium and fell well short. It's post Olympic blues and likely a realization he'll never achieve what he wanted. He was in the shadow of Nino for so long and now the new crop of young riders are taking over. HA has little to fight for and like Nino his best days are behind him. Not to say that he can't still complete at the highest levels, but he'll never achieve what he wants.


WOW! I'm sure he's disappointed about the Tokyo, but your post reads like he was a weekend hack. Cut the guy some slack; he was solid for many years.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Is MVDP racig MtB XCO World Champs?


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> Is MVDP racig MtB XCO World Champs?


I thought he said he was. He was going for the trifecta: road, MTB, and Cross...all in the same year.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Working out EVERYTHING you ate/drank 5 months previously could be difficult.
> If the prior and post tests came back the same, then there is an issue...
> 
> Coincidence?


The only ay to ork out what you ate is to keep a food diary which is just more mental stress. Being a pro athlete has got to be one of the most unrewarding jobs. One my very close and dear pals is a marathon runner. She's been plagued by injury and I can see how it works on her not being able to perform She qualified for Tokyo then it got delayed and didn't qualify for 21 due to those recurring injuries so she watched from home  .Mentally shes way tougher than anyone I know but there are times I find myself on the end of a long distance call giving a pep talk. She's also the type that keeps a food diary but when it get really tough she throws it out so its got gaps. I'm not giving up my day job to an Overend anytime soon....wouldnt wish it on m worst enemy. Its an unbelievably tough life


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

smartyiak said:


> I thought he said he was. He was going for the trifecta: road, MTB, and Cross...all in the same year.


Which has never been done, in the same calendar year. The MTB & Road races are normally too close together. PF-P won the Road Worlds in Sept 2014, CX in Jan 2015, and the MTB in Aug 2015.

The Worlds MTB XCO race is on the Saturday, and he starts the Benelux Tour on the road on the Monday.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Didn't see Avanci retirement coming at all!

Who's favorite for Europeans tomorrow ? Cink is probably hard favourite with Nino,Fluckiger,Pidcock,VDP not racing


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> It is a super hard one.
> 
> I do believe that there is a small percentage of athletes who test positive who inadvertently ingested something. Most of the time it is from supplements, unless they are a new athlete, that isn't really an excuse. All the anti-doping courses are basically in bold letters "*DON'T TAKE SUPPLEMENTS!!*" But a new athlete who is progressing quickly may not have had the necessary education and mistakes are made.
> 
> ...


Sounds from your experience that no one in Pro Mtbing cheats?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

madfella said:


> Sounds from your experience that no one in Pro Mtbing cheats?


Apart from in his second sentence?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

MvDP apparently cut his training camp in Livigno short due to back pain issues. Hhmmm...I do remember him having some sort of entanglement in the Tokyo Olympics. 

A year ago, Egan Bernal had a relatively uneventful crash at Dauphine. No thing broken but developed back issues that made him drop out of the TdF and underwent a lot of therapy for back misalignment. Hoping this is not the case for MvDP, but he always talks about his back when switching from Road to MTB...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> MvDP apparently cut his training camp in Livigno short due to back pain issues. Hhmmm...I do remember him having some sort of entanglement in the Tokyo Olympics.


R'uh R'oh!
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poels-world-champs-in-jeopardy-due-to-back-pain.html


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It stems from earlier in the season, though his Olympic crash can't have helped. If I had to put my money on it, then he'll miss the MTB Worlds....but may make the Road Worlds...

I've already seen comments saying he should bin the MTB if it causes him issues.....and concentrate on the road....Predictable


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I really hope MvdP has access, and will listen, to some good trainers/physios. He may need to take a page from Nino's playbook and start doing lots of core/gym work year round to help his lower back pain. He's indicated in the past that he experiences lower back pain when switching from the road to MTB and this is an indication of a weak core.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429465971446669323


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Exmuhle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429465971446669323


That really sucks. His level of motivation would have made for an interesting race performance, I'm sure.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I just wish he'd make up his mind where he wants to be. Flutting in and out of mtbing is quite frankly irritating


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

One wonders who makes the decisions; him or his team? He's missing the MTB Worlds, but will race from next week on the road. 
Also, if he's meant to be aiming for the Paris 2024 Olympic MTB race; well he'll have to qualify to get there. That means racing on the MTB; and his ranking is going to drop - 4 races (2x XCC, 2x XCO) since August 2019 when the 2022 World Cup starts next May. And he'll be likely racing the next two summers in the Tour, so that will limit the World Cup races he can do.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> I just wish he'd make up his mind where he wants to be. Flutting in and out of mtbing is quite frankly irritating


I couldn't agree more.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I couldn't agree more.


I couldn't disagree more.
He brings excitement to any discipline he tries and he has fun.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CS4WgNdqGJ1/
An unexpected (for me at least) winner at yesterdays swiss cup, Sam Gaze won ahead of Lars Forster and Nino Schurter.

Nice to see him back again, should make the short track more interesting (if he qualifies)


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good one Sam


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

If only, Sam Gaze and MvDP would make a great duo for the Cape Epic!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> I couldn't disagree more.
> He brings excitement to any discipline he tries and he has fun.


I am with you on this one. It is pretty cool to have a rider who does everything.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> I am with you on this one. It is pretty cool to have a rider who does everything.


I didn't say I don't like him, he's incredible. I've been looking for a nice poster for my office of him.
I'm saying his in and outness is getting weird for me.
I like his style so much that I'd rather see him do a whole season just once. Then move on.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I don’t dispute that he’s great for cycling. He just really messes with my fantasy leagues and I never know when to wear my Dutch national replica kit anymore. There’s nothing like executing a mvdp break away during the Sunday morning coffee ride just to keep the Wout supporters humble. This only has maximum effect when he’s racing to win on Sunday afternoon. All this flip flopping is wrecking my crazed supporters image


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

In all honesty, most of us are MvdP and Pidcock type flip floppers. Most of us race and/or ride xc, road and cx. We're just piss poor in all three disciplines.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Goran_injo said:


> In all honesty, most of us are MvdP and Pidcock type flip floppers. Most of us race and/or ride xc, road and cx. We're just piss poor in all three disciplines.


He's of course free to flip all he wants, heck, I think more racers would love to do it, but can't. By him and Pidcock now, popping in and winning, it just makes the "regulars" who do the entire series seem a bit less special I guess. Not sure how to word it. You have to always second guess if Nino really was the best in 2019? He won the overall, but only because someone else chose not to win it. As a fan for over 30 years, it's happened before. I remember a few guys in the 90's start racing and winning from Triathlon and other sports. But they did the whole season, not just one or two races. I guess that's just the way it will be, as more and more guys follow MVDP's lead. He is a bit of a trend setter in that regard. To be able to switch around and win often is cool. But "is he in or out" fatigue has set in for me.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't think you will see a trend here. Number of riders that can perform at this level at a multidiscipline setting is very, very limited. And they are allowed by their teams to ride multidisciplinary because they are highly succesfull in all.

Fatigue...yes...but you would not be fatigued if he placed nicely in the olypics and we saw a good fight with Pidcock.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think you will see a trend here. Number of riders that can perform at this level at a multidiscipline setting is very, very limited. And they are allowed by their teams to ride multidisciplinary because they are highly succesfull in all.
> 
> Fatigue...yes...but you would not be fatigued if he placed nicely in the olypics and we saw a good fight with Pidcock.


You're right I guess. Can't see a bunch coming in behind them. Imagine if Nino popped in and won Roubaix. Then went back to mtb. Then popped in and won 3 sprint stages in the tour, then disappeared. I wonder how the road world would react. Plenty of mtbers have obviously switched to the road, but none on a true "part time" basis, have they? That would be cool.

Is there a woman version of this yet? Alverado kills in Cross, but hasn't won anything yet in big MTB races, at last as far as I know. CX to MTB seems like such a natural thing. Very similar everything, power, length of races, etc. And there's no XC races all year long.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

ShortTravelMag said:


> You're right I guess. Can't see a bunch coming in behind them. Imagine if Nino popped in and won Roubaix. Then went back to mtb. Then popped in and won 3 sprint stages in the tour, then disappeared. I wonder how the road world would react. Plenty of mtbers have obviously switched to the road, but none on a true "part time" basis, have they? That would be cool.
> 
> Is there a woman version of this yet? Alverado kills in Cross, but hasn't won anything yet in big MTB races, at last as far as I know. CX to MTB seems like such a natural thing. Very similar everything, power, length of races, etc. And there's no XC races all year long.


Nino did the tour the suisse a couple of years ago, not very successful. Ondrej Cink changed to road racing and then back to mtb a couple of years later. I don't think there is any risk/chance that a lot of riders will be able to do what mvdp and Pidcock are doing right now, best to enjoy it while it lasts. I think it is great that we get to see them in multiple diciplines, I would hate for mvdp to loose a lot of weight just to try to become a successful 3 week-racer and suck at everything else.

On the womens side Pauline Ferrand Prevot has been world champion in road, cx and xco at the same time.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

ShortTravelMag said:


> You're right I guess. Can't see a bunch coming in behind them. Imagine if Nino popped in and won Roubaix. Then went back to mtb. Then popped in and won 3 sprint stages in the tour, then disappeared. I wonder how the road world would react. Plenty of mtbers have obviously switched to the road, but none on a true "part time" basis, have they? That would be cool.
> 
> Is there a woman version of this yet? Alverado kills in Cross, but hasn't won anything yet in big MTB races, at last as far as I know. CX to MTB seems like such a natural thing. Very similar everything, power, length of races, etc. And there's no XC races all year long.


PFP.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

PFP is closest, I forgot about her. But she did finally choose one and went all in, mtb thank goodness. So she dabbled in several things, then chose one and went for it. That's why I'm bummed that MVDP and Pidcock both dabbled, but will be road guys for their peak years. Can't blame them at all. Money, fame, sponsors, all tugging at you. Cink is cool, he chose mtb after a trial run. That seems way more realistic. MVDP is probably not interested in top 5 at most races for several straight years if he stuck to mtb. 

In an ideal world for me, both MVDP and Pid could race a full season of races (maybe skip 1) and clean up. All while fitting in a decent road program too. Since road races all are more stand alone affairs...vs the 6 race mtb world cup. Missing one road race wouldn't screw things up for the whole year.

Either way, Fluckiger should probably be the gold medalist, being a race of regular world cup guys. I bet he was frustrated a bit. He should win the overall this year, and for that, he is well deserved.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> In all honesty, most of us are MvdP and Pidcock type flip floppers. Most of us race and/or ride xc, road and cx. We're just piss poor in all three disciplines.


 I prefer to view as e having not found my niche yet but i keep trying


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I think Pidcock and MVDP's prowess, however you quantify it (V02max), is significantly higher than anybody in the variety of disciplines that they're racing in. They can afford to make mistakes (we know MVDP makes plenty) and still recover to win, or start in back row position (Pidcock) and still win the race.

They're so good physically that it doesn't seem fair, but that's the most important factor in bike racing, and that's life.

Since they're both pretty good bike handlers, the lack of prime attention to MTB doesn't become a big weakness. I think it's fun to know how good or close the career mountain bike racers are to them, be it fitness or bike handling. I like to root for a guy like Flueckiger who is exceptional in his own right (IMHO the best XCO bike handler in the world right now), and see how close he can get to the supreme V02max guys.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

People already mentioned PFP as a top level in multiple disciplines. Eva Lechner also comes to mind, she's been very high level in both CX and MTB forever. I remember Marco Fontana got some podiums I think in CX World Cups as well as MTB.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Goran_injo said:


> I don't think you will see a trend here. Number of riders that can perform at this level at a multi-discipline setting is very, very limited. And they are allowed by their teams to ride multidisciplinary because they are highly succesfull in all.


I agree with this. I know we've seen discussions "is this the start of a new era of riders riding different disciplines?" But, no, it's not. There's no way the teams would want their top riders doing 'other stuff'. Road cycling can be a bit insular, the thought of a GT rider doing an off road World Cup is insane. However, it's fun to imagine Pogacar/Bernal (who has 2 MTB World medals) racing competitively off road.

MvdP is the only current male racer to have wins in the World Tour, XCO World Cup, CX World Cup. Pidcock & Van Aert have 2/3.

It's slightly different for the women; more of them will tend to do 2, sometimes even 3 disciplines. Neff has been Swiss champion in MTB, CX & Road. PF-P has held 3 World titles at once, but now seems to have concentrated on MTB (though she did the French road nationals as training). Olympic 4th place Blanka Vas is another who mixes disciplines, and is promising in them all.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ewarnerusa said:


> People already mentioned PFP as a top level in multiple disciplines. Eva Lechner also comes to mind, she's been very high level in both CX and MTB forever. I remember Marco Fontana got some podiums I think in CX World Cups as well as MTB.


I think she's the only current female with Elite World Cup wins in both XCO & CX; PF-P has never won a CX World Cup, though World titles in both trump that.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Brad said:


> I just wish he'd make up his mind where he wants to be. Flutting in and out of mtbing is quite frankly irritating


Being a pro cyclist is his job. Unconventional but why irritating?


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

By the sounds of various Instagram posts, Peter Sagan will be “branching out” a little. Might end up just being a high profile gravel race or something, but he did post a picture of himself mountain biking the other day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> If only, Sam Gaze and MvDP would make a great duo for the Cape Epic!!!


As long as Sam wore a fullface helmet and pads.


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

No mtb wins, but gold on road, cx and track:









Marianne Vos - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

He was Slovakian U33 champ years ago in the xco discipline


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

PlanB said:


> By the sounds of various Instagram posts, Peter Sagan will be "branching out" a little. Might end up just being a high profile gravel race or something, but he did post a picture of himself mountain biking the other day.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is just good ol' promotion. Sagan is eclipsing and has to keep his fan base engaged, and Spec want some exposure. Gravel seems to be the pro peleton "retirement" place now, XCO is waaay too competitive for retiring.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Regarding MVDP: I think it's fine that he crosses over, but I think he should give up the grand tours. He's proven that he can win stages and hold his own in a time trial. But the tours don't suit him overall, they take up a huge chunk of the training and racing season, and they interfere with mountain biking. He can ride cross in the winter, then ride spring classics on the road, then MTB over the summer, then fall classics on the road. It all works great if you forget about the grand tours. Pidcock, on the other hand, might well have the ability to place highly in GC at the grand tours. We'll see I guess.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

For women who cross over:

Celin del Carmen Alvarado has stated that she is aiming for Paris 2024 in MTB XC. She said that she doesn't yet have the experience in MTB and that Terpstra and Anne Tauber were already a lock for the Dutch Olympic team this year. Celin has won U23 world cup races and I think she was bronze medal in the U23 worlds in 2020.

Remember Evie Richards also.

For crossing over in other directions, I could see Kate Courtney trying marathon xc racing, or maybe CX or gravel racing. Or even road.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

paramount3 said:


> Regarding MVDP: I think it's fine that he crosses over, but I think he should give up the grand tours. He's proven that he can win stages and hold his own in a time trial. But the tours don't suit him overall, they take up a huge chunk of the training and racing season, and they interfere with mountain biking. He can ride cross in the winter, then ride spring classics on the road, then MTB over the summer, then fall classics on the road. It all works great if you forget about the grand tours. Pidcock, on the other hand, might well have the ability to place highly in GC at the grand tours. We'll see I guess.


That's not going to happen. His team, sponsors, will want him at the Tour (and so will the Tour) every summer he is riding. He can win the odd stage, which is fine for all. But, yes it will affect his MTB season; there's only the early World Cups he can race; afterwards there is the Tour prep, then the Tour, them maybe a World Cup, before prepping for the road Worlds, if it's a suitable course - if not, he may turn up to the MTB Worlds.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> As long as Sam wore a fullface helmet and pads.


and no flipping off fellow racers!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

NordieBoy said:


> Apart from in his second sentence?


Come on Leece. Don't be an acolyte. Their answer wasn't clear from the second sentence, the fifth sentence or the eighth. Let LMN answer for self.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

The short track is proving weird isn't it? Only the men have a qualifier today? Fluckiger said he's skipping short track completely, too much racing before the XCO. I bet more will not race it. I'd love to find an official explanation of the "rules" for this first world champs in short track. I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Why no women qualifying? Too many men racers I guess? Need to whittle it down to 40 or something? Does that mean Saturdays XCO race is not using the results of the short track for start line placements? Is it worth skipping and starting in the 5th row or something? Why not just do it the same way as the World Cups?

Anyone know or have a link to the rules?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Results in for qualifiers, 2 heats. Top 20 of each race Thursday. Only a few of each heat got eliminated. Literally 6 or 7. Why not just let them all race Thursday and skip qualifiers? Odd.
I noticed some big names missing. Forster, nino, fluck, sarrou, etc.

Which means the world champ short tracker will only have about half the normal top guys. Oh well, more xc the better I guess.
Cooper kicked butt. Anyone know if there’s video of it?

And big props to Christopher Blevins. 3rd, and only a few seconds off the win. Not sure how that all translates to thursday, but still kind of cool. Congrats to him.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Goran_injo said:


> In all honesty, most of us are MvdP and Pidcock type flip floppers. Most of us race and/or ride xc, road and cx. We're just piss poor in all three disciplines.


Speak for yourself.

I'm just a mountain biker over here racing mountain bikes. I'm shocked at people talking and whining about how technical Mountain biking races are even though they are nothing close to daily mountain biking I enjoy. I sip my post ride hazy ipa and turn an eyebrow up to those obsessing over geometry who don't ride or show up to technical races. 

I love crit strategy, but don't want to subject myself to the horrid bike handling in CX and road. The trees don't just fall over at 30 mph and they rarely kick me in the face dismounting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Brentjens posted a video he made of the last lap of the one qualifier. Can't see much, but it's still kinda cool. The track is up down, left, right, should be cool race for the finals.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> For women who cross over:
> 
> Celin del Carmen Alvarado has stated that she is aiming for Paris 2024 in MTB XC. She said that she doesn't yet have the experience in MTB and that Terpstra and Anne Tauber were already a lock for the Dutch Olympic team this year. Celin has won U23 world cup races and I think she was bronze medal in the U23 worlds in 2020.
> 
> ...


Kate won the Absa Cape Epic 2018 with Annika Langvad so she's already blooded in marathon


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Loana Lecomte will not race World Champs due to illness. 

Team Relay Results:
1. France
2.USA (fastest lap set by Blevins)
3. Germany


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

A shame we can't watch these races; everything is set up, but it's up to the host broadcaster to pay the relevant people to cover it live. I think Lenzerheide in 2018 was the last time nearly all races were live, either on the UCI website and/or other rights holders. For a World Championships, it's not great.


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## RiKMc (Aug 9, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> Loana Lecomte will not race World Champs due to illness.
> 
> Team Relay Results:
> 1. France
> ...


The fastest lap was actually Riley Amos. It looks like he might do ok in the u23 race.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

RiKMc said:


> The fastest lap was actually Riley Amos. It looks like he might do ok in the u23 race.


Should be a good fight with Carter Woods (CAN) and Martin Vidaurre from Chile


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.valdisolebikeland.com/_files/f_media/2021/08/3145.pdf


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Can I assume Riley Amos partaked in the NICA highschool league somewhere? I'll go do some digging. If so, the USA is finally showing up with some new blood that can hang with the other countries. Kind of cool.


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## RiKMc (Aug 9, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Can I assume Riley Amos partaked in the NICA highschool league somewhere? I'll go do some digging. If so, the USA is finally showing up with some new blood that can hang with the other countries. Kind of cool.


Durango. Three of the four on the relay team (Riley, Ruth Holcomb, and Blevins) are from Durango. Savilia Blunk also goes to Fort Lewis and I think Brayden Johnson spends a decent amount of time here. Kate is the only oddball.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

That makes sense. It's funny, almost 30 years to the month I started MTB racing, 1991, all the top dogs were from...Durango. Or near there. I guess it's still a great place to be if you want to be a great biker.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> A shame we can't watch these races; everything is set up, but it's up to the host broadcaster to pay the relevant people to cover it live. I think Lenzerheide in 2018 was the last time nearly all races were live, either on the UCI website and/or other rights holders. For a World Championships, it's not great.


Wish we could get a coverage of U23 WC races too, that would be awesome


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Loana Lecomte will not race World Champs due to illness.
> 
> Team Relay Results:
> 1. France
> ...


She would have raced U23 anyway so there will be another opportunity next year


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Does anyone know if the XCO races will be available to watch in Canada?


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

scottg said:


> Does anyone know if the XCO races will be available to watch in Canada?


Only via FloSports payed membership in USA/CAN
Literally every other country is on Redbull. VPN my friend.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I saw a comment on a trek Instagram post that Neff went OTB and had a nice tumble in a rock garden during practice ride. Anyone know how banged up she did or didn't get?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I'm Geo Blocked...and this time I can't work myself around it without paying.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Sina!!!

Smokin’ hot race. Was cheering for Evie, but Sina races it smart.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> I love crit strategy, but don't want to subject myself to the horrid bike handling in CX and road. The trees don't just fall over at 30 mph and they rarely kick me in the face dismounting.


Nice, love it.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

BLEVINS!!!!!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Blevins takes the xcc world champs!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Blevins! 

Both races were awesome.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Cerpss said:


> I saw a comment on a trek Instagram post that Neff went OTB and had a nice tumble in a rock garden during practice ride. Anyone know how banged up she did or didn't get?


She said in a further post she wasn't hurt.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CS9s5Lpj_XG/


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad said:


> Blevins takes the xcc world champs!!


On a hardtail!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> On a hardtail!


Only because he has been corrupted by tradition and has been through the Chombobulatron 2022 geo program


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

They could have at least given him 2 min to rest before interviewing him, he could barely talk haha.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Wow, really exiting racing in both the womens and the mens category! I really thought Brandl had it when he got a 7 sec gap going into the last lap, Avancini did a lot of work to close that gap.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So, does the same bike rule apply? Meaning, you have to race the same bike for XCC and for XCO in the World Champs?


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> So, does the same bike rule apply? Meaning, you have to race the same bike for XCC and for XCO in the World Champs?


No, a rider can choose a different bike for each race in this case, at least that is what Rob and Bart said today during the race.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Is Avancini really retiring? I thought I saw a socia media post that it was a joke, or something along those lines.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Is Avancini really retiring? I thought I saw a socia media post that it was a joke, or something along those lines.


From what I understood, that post was misinterpreted and he'll still be racing.

Sent from my LM-X525 using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MarkJ70 said:


> No, a rider can choose a different bike for each race in this case, at least that is what Rob and Bart said today during the race.


yes this is correct. The XCC and XCO are two separate events at the World Champs so the riders are free to select whatever bike they deem advantageous for the race. Satursday's is according to UCI ranking and not according to the XCC performance


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Wow, that was a great race! I thought it was done after the first lap.
Maybe Maja Włoszczowska shoudl reconsiderretireing, she's clearly still got some go left (although I'm sure it hard to stay at that level for so long...)


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

mik_git said:


> Wow, that was a great race! I thought it was done after the first lap.
> Maybe Maja Włoszczowska shoudl reconsiderretireing, she's clearly still got some go left (although I'm sure it hard to stay at that level for so long...)


Must be nice to be able to watch it live... It was blocked here in the US.

Anyone know if there is a replay available?


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

ah that explains why there is nothing going on in the thread... it wasn't blocked here, Australia was in the lsit on non blocked...then suddenly it was blocked...local broadcaster picked it up...but geez actually finding the link before hand was hard. I wixh the UCI would sort their sht out. Do they actually want people to watch their sport? I guess its not road cycling so who cares?


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Pretty sure this won't work for you, but could always try...








LIVE STREAM: UCI Mountain Bike World Championships – Women’s Cross Country


LIVE STREAM: UCI Mountain Bike World Championships – Women’s Cross Country



www.sbs.com.au





mens:








LIVE STREAM: Paris-Roubaix 2022


LIVE STREAM: Paris-Roubaix 2022



www.sbs.com.au


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

mik_git said:


> Pretty sure this won't work for you, but could always try...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, thanks for trying but that is blocked as you predicted.

Redbull tv is usually what I watch WC races on, not today though.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

yeah same, and while I find navigating the redbull site/app a pain (I usually watch on the PS4) they do a great job for the actual coverage.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Evie absolutely crushed that.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Will Kate Courtney make a coaching change now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Wow, just wow!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

And huh! Where did Sam Gaze come from? Hadm't seen him at all since half way through lap 1!

Cink...oh well. He can climb, just can't descend (a bit like me...but I can't climb either)


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Will Kate Courtney make a coaching change now?


Kate has been off since the Covid shutdown starting March 2020. For some reason, this messed with some people's motivation more than others.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

N1NO!!! He was exceptional today, great ride with Flucki!


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Yeah, thanks for trying but that is blocked as you predicted.
> 
> Redbull tv is usually what I watch WC races on, not today though.


I clicked a link from the UCI Twitter and was able to watch a stream of the men's race. I was shocked.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Flo has/had it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

GCN plus in Canada had it too. Still a paid service tho.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Our Satellite TV service provider had the rights for but chose to show private school rugby instead
Haven't seen any of the races other than the XCC. Super P*ssed


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

VPN to non geo blocked country and use red bull app:









UCI MTB World Champs 2021 live stream restrictions


UCI MTB World Championships




www.redbull.com


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino is fucking amazing, just wow! Greatest of all time , looks like Fluckiger was little butthurt about Nino's pass on last corners.

Wish that VDP would have raced also, would have been cool to see him get beaten by Nino


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> Wish that VDP would have raced also, would have been cool to see him get beaten by Nino


Haha! It would have been a different result if a healthy VDP and Tom Pidcock showed up (with no "missing" ramp of course). Nino was just the "best of the rest" today.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Haha! It would have been a different result if a healthy VDP and Tom Pidcock showed up (with no "missing" ramp of course). Nino was just the "best of the rest" today.


Otherwise known as the World Champion. If you're not there, you don't count.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Great rides from Sam Gaze and Ben Oliver, but Anton didn't have the greatest race ever.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Nino is fucking amazing, just wow! Greatest of all time , looks like Fluckiger was little butthurt about Nino's pass on last corners.


Nino has been scooped on the inside of the last turn so many times, nice to see him finally do it.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

I love both of the Swiss riders so I was going to feel bad for someone no matter what. I think Mathias just 100% didn't think that corner was "under threat" so he didn't close down any opportunity there. Instant regret.

I can't decide if the pass was "sketchy" as he put it. I want to respect his opinion as he will know better than I.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> Great rides from Sam Gaze and Ben Oliver, but Anton didn't have the greatest race ever.


Sam Gaze's start position was 87th. He finished seventh, 2:30 down. I haven't done a rigorous analysis, but if Gaze had started on the front row, I'm not sure Nino would have won. On the start loop or the first lap there was a crash/pileup and only Nino and a few others were out in front of it. That event alone probably cost 30 seconds to the other riders.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

edu2 said:


> VPN to non geo blocked country and use red bull app:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure what the issue was, but I had to make several attempts to get VPN to work for the Redbull TV international feed in the US. In the end, I was able to watch the replays of the XCC races from Sweden, and then the next day was able to watch replays of the XCO races from Slovokia. Redbull did not cover the U23 races.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Women's U23: 4 laps plus start loop, 17.96 km. Winner: Mona Mitterwallner, 66:57. Average speed 16.10 km/hr.
Women's elite: 5 laps plus start loop, 21.96 km. Winner: Evie Richards, 83:52. Average speed 15.71 km/hr.

The start loop is flatter and faster, and of course you would expect a slower average lap time for a longer race. I couldn't find actual lap times. But still--it will be interesting when MM races elite.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Brad said:


> Kate won the Absa Cape Epic 2018 with Annika Langvad so she's already blooded in marathon


Kate is 25, has been at the highest level in XCO MTB, but is struggling now. The competition is getting stronger. She can hang on and have Paris 2024 as a goal. She'll be 28. But if I were part of her inner circle, I would advise her to think hard about what more she needs to accomplish as a professional racer. One option would be to try something fresh within cycling (CX, road, gravel) as I suggested. But Kate is a Stanford graduate with a degree in human biology. I could see her going the Dr. Eric Heiden route--go to medical school, study sports medicine, could also focus on nutrition and sports psychology. She could be tremendously influential and have a long, rewarding career.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

paramount3 said:


> Sam Gaze's start position was 87th. He finished seventh, 2:30 down. I haven't done a rigorous analysis, but if Gaze had started on the front row, I'm not sure Nino would have won. On the start loop or the first lap there was a crash/pileup and only Nino and a few others were out in front of it. That event alone probably cost 30 seconds to the other riders.


Gaze had an amazing race, but looking from lap times he would have been maximum 3-4th place. Aside from 1st lap he lost 1:10 on 2nd, 0:15 on 3rd, 0:06 on 4th, 0:10 on 5th and 0:29 on last lap... Fluck and Nino were just on another level

But U23 women winner Mona Mitterwalner was indeed about a 10sec lap faster than Evie

Also the U23 Men winner Martin Vidaurre Kossmann had a 3rd fastest overall time and solid top5 pace, nice to see some young ones coming up


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I saw on Fluckigers instagram that he complained about Ninos pass in the second to last corner, saying it was dangerous. Was it really that bad? Looked to me like Fluckiger should have closed that hole first, no reason to go so wide. 

On the other hand a bit unneccesary by Nino, looked like he would have taken the sprint anyway.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

As somebody has in their signature...never underestimate an old man on a mountain bike. Congrats to Nino.

Great ride from Vlad also...we might see him contending for wins in next years.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

You don't win all those races without having some 'brains'; he did something similar on the final lap of the Europeans last season - they left a gap, and he went for it; race over! 
Good to see Sam back, after a few years of problems, and Vlad is very definitely on an upward curve.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Look fine to me. He left the door open. No one crashed and it's racing. Sorry Fluck, but that was a solid pass.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Fluckiger apologized on IG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Not sure why Loana skipped world's? Headcase after disappointing Olympics? She did a few monster rides this weekend at home, so she must be physically OK.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Not sure why Loana skipped world's? Headcase after disappointing Olympics? She did a few monster rides this weekend at home, so she must be physically OK.


Stomach Bug


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Not sure why Loana skipped world's? Headcase after disappointing Olympics? She did a few monster rides this weekend at home, so she must be physically OK.


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/loana-lecomte-withdraws-from-xc-world-championships-with-illness.html


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

So, so happy for Nino and his team. Crazy to see the emotion in him at post race interview! I wonder where he ranks this win compared to Rio 2016.
Sad for MF, but he showed such courage and just what an awesome guy he is with his Insta video statement. 

What is it with the Swiss? They just seem to produce wonderful sporting ambassadors, Federer, Nino, Mathias, Neff and others. True examples for anyone.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> Haha! It would have been a different result if a healthy VDP and Tom Pidcock showed up (with no "missing" ramp of course). Nino was just the "best of the rest" today.


This is crazy talk. 
If perfect genetic baby had of just chose cycling career I stead of "insert_career" then Mvdp wouldn't have had half the success he had.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I think one of the most interesting aspects of the weekend is the U23 women's race. Mona beat Stigger by over 2 minutes, and Stigger has been in the top 10 in Elite races this year. I am fascinated to see how she progresses, and is she someone who will jump into Elite and immediately start winning? The season she is having is Nino-esque in his prime.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

What a cray weekend! Looking deeper at the results, usual contenders struggled while not so usual contenders stepped up to the game. I'm particularly happy for Camilo Andres Gomez (Silver Medal Junior Men) from Colombia. I had the chance to host and help him for the past two years in some UCI races and he is a really cool kid. He's being supported Fundacion Pablo Mezuena, who discovered and supported Egan Bernal through his MTB years, and apparently also by Egan Bernal himself. I also loved Martin Vidaurre winning U23. I met him personally a few moths ago.He's a solid talent and would be better if he wasn't a nut job and a party animal. Two up and coming kids from South America!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The u23 category, particularly the women’s, often has women in it who would be challenging the leaders in elite. All of the current top riders rivalled the best elites as u23s. Makes you question why there is a U23 category.

Mona is an awesome rider, her only weakness is starts. She is similar to Catharine and that is means she is terrible at them. Starts aren’t big in U23s but in elites it matters.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> The u23 category, particularly the women's, often has women in it who would be challenging the leaders in elite. All of the current top riders rivalled the best elites as u23s. Makes you question why there is a U23 category.
> 
> Mona is an awesome rider, her only weakness is starts. She is similar to Catharine and that is means she is terrible at them. Starts aren't big in U23s but in elites it matters.


I assume Catherine was trying to train her starts? Would improving them start to come at the expensive of other parts of her fitness?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> What a crazy weekend! Looking deeper at the results, usual contenders struggled while not so usual contenders stepped up to the game. I'm particularly happy for Camilo Andres Gomez (Silver Medal Junior Men) from Colombia. I had the chance to host and help him for the past two years in some UCI races and he is a really cool kid. He's being supported Fundacion Pablo Mezuena, who discovered and supported Egan Bernal through his MTB years, and apparently also by Egan Bernal himself. I also loved Martin Vidaurre winning U23. I met him personally a few moths ago.He's a solid talent and would be better if he wasn't a nut job and a party animal. Two up and coming kids from South America!


One fears he's going to be lost to MTB, like Bernal was....but I hope he stays.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Skier78 said:


> I saw on Fluckigers instagram that he complained about Ninos pass in the second to last corner, saying it was dangerous. Was it really that bad? Looked to me like Fluckiger should have closed that hole first, no reason to go so wide.
> 
> On the other hand a bit unneccesary by Nino, looked like he would have taken the sprint anyway.


I was pulling for Mattias in this race, but anybody would have made that pass...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

If you're in the UK the World Championships are geo blocked on Red Bull TV but the full events (same pictures, different commentary) are on the BBC iPlayer to stream for the next month from the date of the event:

There seemed to be a lot of very distant camera positions and aerial shots at this race so there wasn't much close up viewing.









BBC Sport - UCI Mountain Bike World Championships


Coverage of mountain bike racing events organised by the Union Cycliste Internationale.




www.bbc.co.uk





Full Results:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-val-di-sole-xc-world-championships.html



Pictures from the races:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-val-di-sole-xc-world-championships-2021.html



One thing that surprised me was seeing what appeared to be Ondrej Cink's Shimano XTR M9100 trigger shifter break and lose all its downshifts! He was stuck in gear and forced to push the bike uphill while banging the shifter in fury as he couldn't shift to a lower gear. The chain was still on and the bike had drive. Midway through the World Championships race is a horribly bad luck for that to happen!









Shimano XTR M9100 shifters keep breaking--no downshift...


I've had three XTR M9100 12 speed shifters break on me, all in the same manner. Two were warranty replacements for the first broken one. The latest replacement only lasted about 2 weeks before breaking. What happens is the shift lever (long one) intermittently stops shifting--just pushes in...




www.mtbr.com





.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Milan Vader has signed to ride for Jumbo Visma in 2022. He's doing a combined road and mountain bike program apparently:

_"Jumbo-Visma has hired mountain biker Milan Vader as the 28th rider for the WorldTour formation for 2022. Several sources have confirmed this to WielerFlits . Vader will be riding a combined mountain bike and road program. On Saturday afternoon, the 25-year-old rider will compete at the Mountain Bike World Championships in Val di Sole.

In recent years, Jumbo-Visma has closely followed 25-year-old Vader through their coach/trainer Tim Heemskerk. Heemskerk is the mountain biker's personal coach. As a result, Vader was also present at the training camp of the WorldTour formation in Alicante last spring. Mountain bike insiders have known about Vader's road ambitions for some time and argued that it was now or never.

Vader does not yet have the necessary experience on the road, but his test results show that he also has a lot of talent for this work. In addition, as a mountain biker, he naturally masters the technique to keep a bicycle perfectly under control. The born rider - who has lived on Watersley in Sittard in Limburg in recent years - will be introduced to the road races with a sophisticated competition program.

Vader will be active on the mountain bike around the World Cups and the World Championships, while he will also go out with the road team for periods. A combination that Mathieu van der Poel at Alpecin-Fenix and Tom Pidcock at INEOS Grenadiers also make. At the Olympic Games in Tokyo, Vader finished tenth after a good start and race. In 2019 and 2020 he became Dutch cross-country champion, while in 2019 he also won bronze at the European Championship won by Van der Poel."_ *wielerflits.nl*









Mountainbiker Milan Vader naar WorldTour-wegploeg Jumbo-Visma


Jumbo-Visma heeft mountainbiker Milan Vader als 28ste renner voor de WorldTour-formatie voor 2022 aangenomen. Dat hebben meerdere bronnen aan WielerFlits bevestigd. Vader zal een gecombineerd mountainbike- en wegprogramma rijden. Zaterdagmiddag komt de 25-jarige Zeeuw uit op het WK mountainbike...




www.wielerflits.nl


----------



## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

WTF happened to Kate Courtney?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

bikeranzin said:


> I assume Catherine was trying to train her starts? Would improving them start to come at the expensive of other parts of her fitness?


She worked on it a ton. But has pretty well zero fast twitch muscle fibre. Her starts improved from terrible to weak.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> She worked on it a ton. But has pretty well zero fast twitch muscle fibre. Her starts improved from terrible to weak.


It seems to be something you either have it or you dont


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

That was a nice demolition job by Evie. So happy for her!


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

GSPChilliwack said:


> That was a nice demolition job by Evie. So happy for her!


Fur sure. And it's great to see a variety of body shapes in our sport. She's a big girl!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Bummer I can't watch this. Still blocked.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> Bummer I can't watch this. Still blocked.


VPN is your friend


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

XCC short track races today on Redbull.TV.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Interesting how long the field stuck together in the men's race vs the women's race.

The women's race got ugly, fast. Another lap or two and the 80% rule would've been removing a lot of people.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Interesting how long the field stuck together in the men's race vs the women's race.
> 
> The women's race got ugly, fast. Another lap or two and the 80% rule would've been removing a lot of people.


The crashes on the opening lap detonated the women's race


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

G-Choro said:


> WTF happened to Kate Courtney?


Just a wild guess but I suspect she trained too hard. It seems those who punched out massive hours last years really struggled this year.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Was that Haley Batten that went down? Did she clip one of the barrier legs with a pedal?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Was that Haley Batten that went down? Did she clip one of the barrier legs with a pedal?


She went down in the 2nd crash, the one before the top corner. Both her and Sina did. They used some serious power to back to the leaders.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

"We're not great friends." - Henrique Avancini


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

madfella said:


> Fur sure. And it's great to see a variety of body shapes in our sport. She's a big girl!


She's actually not big at all. She's 164cm tall and around 55- 56Kg......thats far from big. She's a muscular build but many of the other ladies are really tiny, like marathon runner build so Evie looks big in comparison. She's actually quite petite in person (and terribly distracting and fun to be around - the only time she shuts up or stops giggling is when she has a bike in her hand and even then its a maybe). A really delightful infectious personality and very competitive when on the bike.
The TV camera really does put extra weight on the subject.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Being a Brit, I'm biased, but she is rather wonderful.......
She did have an over training/ under fuelling problem a few years ago, which she highlighted on her instagram account.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Brad said:


> She's actually not big at all. She's 164cm tall and around 55- 56Kg......thats far from big. She's a muscular build but many of the other ladies are really tiny, like marathon runner build so Evie looks big in comparison. She's actually quite petite in person (and terribly distracting and fun to be around - the only time she shuts up or stops giggling is when she has a bike in her hand and even then its a maybe). A really delightful infectious personality and very competitive when on the bike.
> The TV camera really does put extra weight on the subject.


I'd second this. I've been around a lot of pros - make and female, road and mountain. Even the road sprinters - guys who dwarf the climbers on their teams - are small people compared the average person. Evie is built like many female road pros I've known, they look thick in comparison to the marathon build of the climber types but are actually not big at all. In normal clothes you can see this. Lycra makes them all look more muscular than they are, but street clothes make them look tiny.

Evie is a sub-21 BMI from the measurements given above, FWIW. I'm 22.9 BMI at the moment and at my lightest (5'10", 140 lbs) I was exactly her BMI - 20.8 kg/m2. I was razor thin.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

tommyrod74 said:


> I'd second this. I've been around a lot of pros - make and female, road and mountain. Even the road sprinters - guys who dwarf the climbers on their teams - are small people compared the average person. Evie is built like many female road pros I've known, they look thick in comparison to the marathon build of the climber types but are actually not big at all. In normal clothes you can see this. Lycra makes them all look more muscular than they are, but street clothes make them look tiny.
> 
> Evie is a sub-21 BMI from the measurements given above, FWIW. I'm 22.9 BMI at the moment and at my lightest (5'10", 140 lbs) I was exactly her BMI - 20.8 kg/m2. I was razor thin.


I've avoided making body comments, but since others have broached the subject, I will go ahead. Yes, Evie Richards looks more solid than most of the other women racers side-by-side, but many of them are skeletal (not to be critical). I took a look at Evie's Instagram page, and there are some photos of her in a bathing suit--sleek and muscular. And clearly she has lungs of steel. The results speak for themselves--that girl has an incredible sustained power-to-weight ratio. I hope she doesn't feel shamed by people comparing her to extremely skinny marathon racers--I think she's found the right balance right where she is now.


----------



## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Interesting. Total psychological devastation or what?


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Good on her; no point in going on if it's only going to harm her. Health first.....Glad to see riders are comfortable saying this....


----------



## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> View attachment 1946840
> 
> 
> Interesting. Total psychological devastation or what?


No. PFP is pretty shrewd. She knows she doesn't have the legs to do well this weekend, and after that all she has to look forward to is a stressful trip to West Virginia. Better to cut losses on this year. I'm just wondering if there's any significance to the ring on the 4th finger of the right hand for a French woman? (In the US this might signify divorce.) And she kind of tore open that bag of chips.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> No. PFP is pretty shrewd. She knows she doesn't have the legs to do well this weekend, and after that all she has to look forward to is a stressful trip to West Virginia. Better to cut losses on this year. I'm just wondering if there's any significance to the ring on the 4th finger of the right hand for a French woman? (In the US this might signify divorce.) And she kind of tore open that bag of chips.


possibly because she and Julien are engaged to be married and shes making space for the wedding ring to go on her left hand. Her post is probably a subtle indication that nuptials are at hand.....


----------



## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

paramount3 said:


> I've avoided making body comments, but since others have broached the subject, I will go ahead. Yes, Evie Richards looks more solid than most of the other women racers side-by-side, but many of them are skeletal (not to be critical). I took a look at Evie's Instagram page, and there are some photos of her in a bathing suit--sleek and muscular. And clearly she has lungs of steel. The results speak for themselves--that girl has an incredible sustained power-to-weight ratio. I hope she doesn't feel shamed by people comparing her to extremely skinny marathon racers--I think she's found the right balance right where she is now.


You could further make the argument that these modern courses are not really won on FTP. I'd imagine that 2 to 5 minute power, assuming FTP is high enough in the first place, is the real differentiator. Sometimes it's easier to put out more power for a 2 to 5 minute duration at a slightly heavier weight anyway. That's been my personal experience and that of several people I have coached.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

kevbikemad said:


> "We're not great friends." - Henrique Avancini


I was curious about this. Why is Avancini beefing on Mathias now too? Are the Swiss the "gatekeepers" that Avancini obliquely referenced during his Nino-beef interview? At least his XCC Worlds interview was classy.


----------



## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Normally I think the Trek women have the best post-race interviews, but Jenny may have an all time great now too.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

bikeranzin said:


> Normally I think the Trek women have the best post-race interviews, but Jenny may have an all time great now too.


I agree. Pretty far out-there, but good to see her relaxed and happy.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I like Evie and Jenny’s post race interviews. Jolanda always sounds frantic which grates me especially when everything is “super”. That just cues the Minions song in my head.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Most of the Euro racers say super often. I think it’s just a weird English language thing for them. Sina does it too. I loved Rissveds interviews this year. She is so relaxed now. No canned answers now. Like she doesn’t give a hoot.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Most of the Euro racers say super often. I think it's just a weird English language thing for them. Sina does it too. I loved Rissveds interviews this year. She is so relaxed now. No canned answers now. Like she doesn't give a hoot.


And I love her more for it. Her Instagram post race chats are a scream


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think they're all pretty awesome, and it's great to have these women in the sport. Jenny's instagram post yesterday with the donkeys was cute......
They're doing something right, as I always feel I have to get out and ride.....


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Yaaaaaaay! (Not being a spoiler though)


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

From the beginning of her season she stated she was putting all her focus on the Olympic Gold medal. I thought that was a bad focus. When that didn't happen for her, she fell into a little mental distress. That can clearly be a problem because you never know when you may just have a bad day on the bike.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah that was a great race, I think maybe there was some going into the red and then not being able to see the track.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Mens XCO about to start, any truth to the rumor Greg Minaar is gonna race XCO on his DH bike and win? Saddle is above the bars, bike has negative reach how can he not?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Old school for another win!!!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I can’t help but laugh at the inside pass Nino pulled on Fluckiger for 2nd. Just completely demoralized him. Second time in a week. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well it did require Matt to hit the brakes or hit the tree
Matt is just too much of a nice guy and Nino will do anything for 2nd including putting a competitor into a tree.
Hard racing?
Or total AH?
Votes in the hat


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> Votes in the hat


I've certainly made a few passes that upon reflection after I'm not necessarily too proud of, but I'm just a hack and I'm not working with the same set of variables. Hard pass to win or place at my local race arguably makes me a bit of an asshat. However, for world cup pros I have no qualms about hard racing and hard passing. After all, they are duking it out to be the best of the best in the world. Since this is their job they have the benefit of operating within a more focused framework of values and morals, in comparison to an amateur such as myself that deals with more ambiguity when deciding how my actions and attitude on the course fit into the broader context of my life.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Circlip said:


> I've certainly made a few passes that upon reflection after I'm not necessarily too proud of, but I'm just a hack and I'm not working with the same set of variables. Hard pass to win or place at my local race arguably makes me a bit of an asshat. However, for world cup pros I have no qualms about hard racing and hard passing. After all, they are duking it out to be the best of the best in the world. Since this is their job they have the benefit of operating within a more focused framework of values and morals, in comparison to an amateur such as myself that deals with more ambiguity when deciding how my actions and attitude on the course fit into the broader context of my life.


Great answer 👍


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Flueckiger telling on his interview that he's happy, why didn't i believe that ? 

I hope Evie races some CX races this season also, would be interesting to see if she can get some elite wins


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Flueckiger telling on his interview that he's happy, why didn't i believe that ?
> 
> I hope Evie races some CX races this season also, would be interesting to see if she can get some elite wins


Hi did not look too happy when it was happening but he's probably at the point where he's decided that he should expect it from Nino


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> Well it did require Matt to hit the brakes or hit the tree
> Matt is just too much of a nice guy and Nino will do anything for 2nd including putting a competitor into a tree.
> Hard racing?
> Or total AH?
> Votes in the hat


Last lap, last corner, as long as you don't crash you competitor it is fair game.

Don't want to be passed on the inside, don't leave it open. Simple as that.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> Last lap, last corner, as long as you don't crash you competitor it is fair game.
> 
> Don't want to be passed on the inside, don't leave it open. Simple as that.


Friend of mine back when I lived in Hood River did that to me three times in a season before I finally learned my lesson.

He's the dude who wears the 1960s-style glasses, black tie and white, short sleeve collared shirt in all of the Transition product release videos.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Raikzz said:


> Flueckiger telling on his interview that he's happy, why didn't i believe that ?


My impression was that he was genuinely happy to make the most of what he considered some bad legs today. 3rd is pretty damn good considering he struggled off the start and couldn't drop Nino or Koretzki no matter how hard he tried, and it preserves a huge lead in the points.

It was pretty clear too that Nino was being held up as Koretzki rode away, he made the move and pulled back a bit of time between there and the line. I think the pass was warranted.

I was impressed by the sheer speed in this race more than any other I can remember watching. It looked like these guys were in fast forward and constantly attacking. Superhuman.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Koretzky is just so good on the technical parts, love how he does a one-hander during a world cup race 🤩


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

brentos said:


> I was impressed by the sheer speed in this race more than any other I can remember watching. It looked like these guys were in fast forward and constantly attacking. Superhuman.


The crazy this is it was a very tactical race where they were actually cruising along. If you look at the lap times. Koretzky was 11:30 for laps 1 and 2 and then last did a 10:50. There was a lot of sitting and waiting going on.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

LMN said:


> The crazy this is it was a very tactical race where they were actually cruising along. If you look at the lap times. Koretzky was 11:30 for laps 1 and 2 and then last did a 10:50. There was a lot of sitting and waiting going on.


I actually had the revelation during my ride this morning. That the course probably wasn't conducive to creating gaps between riders, so breakaways were not successful. So everyone sat in (speaking relatively here), it allowed Matthias to get back up in the group and also lended to the sprinting nature of the last 1/2 lap. Regardless, they were still moving fast.

And that one-hander by Koretzky. Damn!


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

bikeranzin said:


> Normally I think the Trek women have the best post-race interviews, but Jenny may have an all time great now too.


I recommend following Team 31 on Instagram. Jenny and Kelsey Urban do race weekend recaps, and they are great.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Very good races this weekend. Time gaps were not that big as you all stated, and I'm guessing the new switchback climb instead of the long asphalt climb had something to do with it. Impressive rides by Evie, Sina, Becca. Wawak and Gaze get my nod for the Men's.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Bets on who does or doesn’t make Snowshoe?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Heading up to SnowShoe with the wife Friday night. First world cup ever. We are psyched!

Whats the chances of Loanna showing up given shes locked up the overall? MVP or Pidcock even?

Thanks

Sid


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

paramount3 said:


> I've avoided making body comments, but since others have broached the subject, I will go ahead. Yes, Evie Richards looks more solid than most of the other women racers side-by-side, but many of them are skeletal (not to be critical). I took a look at Evie's Instagram page, and there are some photos of her in a bathing suit--sleek and muscular. And clearly she has lungs of steel. The results speak for themselves--that girl has an incredible sustained power-to-weight ratio. I hope she doesn't feel shamed by people comparing her to extremely skinny marathon racers--I think she's found the right balance right where she is now.


Evie and Jenny look like they're cut from the same mold. Built for tall gear power.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

cityjackit said:


> Heading up to SnowShoe with the wife Friday night. First world cup ever. We are psyched!
> 
> Whats the chances of Loanna showing up given shes locked up the overall? MVP or Pidcock even?
> 
> ...


Neither of last two will be there; prepping for the Road Worlds......(if his back holds up).


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Exmuhle said:


> Neither of last two will be there; prepping for the Road Worlds......(if his back holds up).


Any word on Loanna?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I went in 2019, my first world cup since the early/mid 90's when they had them in Michigan. It was pretty cool. Bring a chair for yourself, standing a long time with no where to sit. Just a tip.

I knew I was in for a cool weekend when I drove up the mountain to get to the top and I was behind Nino and Lars riding up the hill on Saturday. Just cruising along. That was kinda neat. 

Seems people are blowing snowshoe off this year, a bunch of them. That really stinks. It would be nice if the UCI kind of "encouraged" racers to attend. The USA will not get a world cup back for years again I'm thinking if everyone says it's too far, or they don't want to bother. Everyone except MVDP was there in 2019 because the world champs were a half days drive straight north in Canada the week before. 

Either way, should be fun. You'll be amazed how much faster everything is when standing 2 feet from the track.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

In the other hand it's understandable why lot of riders, especially small teams and privateers don't want to go for US, all that traveling and one US race for European rider probably costs 2-4x more than European race


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Its all about Loana man. 😄

Thanks for the heads up. Wife and I will be somewhere on the downhill Daturday morning. Where you coming from?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Raikzz said:


> In the other hand it's understandable why lot of riders, especially small teams and privateers don't want to go for US, all that traveling and one US race for European rider probably costs 2-4x more than European race


Oh I get it for small teams/privateers, I'm talking only about the top racers/teams. They have already budgeted, made the reservations, all that. It would just be nice to show up and at least give it a shot. Some of the races I've done over the years where I felt least like going, ended up being really good days. I think the pressure was off and I was just doing it for fun again or something. Plus, I would think it might be fun to come to the US for a few days, and it is the last MTB race of the year.

It's quite beautiful in that part of the country. I'm a midwest guy, and just love driving into real mountains and forests. In 2019 I stayed about 45 minutes away in a regular hotel. But this year I am staying right at the mountain top race town, so no daily driving needed. Hoping for nice weather again.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Oh I get it for small teams/privateers, I'm talking only about the top racers/teams. They have already budgeted, made the reservations, all that. It would just be nice to show up and at least give it a shot. Some of the races I've done over the years where I felt least like going, ended up being really good days. I think the pressure was off and I was just doing it for fun again or something. Plus, I would think it might be fun to come to the US for a few days, and it is the last MTB race of the year.
> 
> It's quite beautiful in that part of the country. I'm a midwest guy, and just love driving into real mountains and forests. In 2019 I stayed about 45 minutes away in a regular hotel. But this year I am staying right at the mountain top race town, so no daily driving needed. Hoping for nice weather again.


Is there a way of knowing what teams and racers have committed? I know for MX and the GP's, there is always an entry list a week beforehand.

Is the mens downhill championship already decided like the womens XC elite?

Sid


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

cityjackit said:


> Is there a way of knowing what teams and racers have committed? I know for MX and the GP's, there is always an entry list a week beforehand.
> 
> Is the mens downhill championship already decided like the womens XC elite?
> 
> Sid


I don't think there is such a list. There's start lists near race day, but that's just who the UCI thinks should be there.

I know Sebastian Fini is skipping it, of course PHP, MVDP, Pidcock, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least a half dozen more blow it off.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I don't think there is such a list. There's start lists near race day, but that's just who the UCI thinks should be there.
> 
> I know Sebastian Fini is skipping it, of course PHP, MVDP, Pidcock, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least a half dozen more blow it off.


That stinks


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Like others have said I think a lot of riders will skip it, I don't think it is just the cost, it is also a pretty high risk to catch a cold on the long flight and with the time difference. 

I was a bit surprized that Sam Gaze is not going, I thought he needed the uci points for next years start row. It seems to have been a long season with the extra stress of the olympics for many of the riders, many posts on instagram about feeling tired.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

And it's the last one of the year, this is it. Go out with a bang I'd think. Points, a nice venue, I dunno, seems like a reason to give it one more shot. Even if you're tired out from the last few months, which has been hectic...it's kind of your job to get in front of people. I mean emily batty, while not exactly lighting up the results this year, still draws a crowd. I suppose there will be enough to make it worth while anyway.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Snowshoe will have a small field this year.

Travelling to the US is tricky to do right now. It isn't just a simple as hoping on airplane. Entry requires some significant paper work (much like it was to travel to Europe in the spring). Add that hurdle, to a long season, a single race, and covid numbers that are staggeringly higher than everywhere else and people are reluctant to go.

Just to give perspective I am staying with in-laws instead of trying navigate the massive travel hurdle to get there.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Snowshoe will have a small field this year.
> 
> Travelling to the US is tricky to do right now. It isn't just a simple as hoping on airplane. Entry requires some significant paper work (much like it was to travel to Europe in the spring). Add that hurdle, to a long season, a single race, and covid numbers that are staggeringly higher than everywhere else and people are reluctant to go.
> 
> Just to give perspective I am staying with in-laws instead of trying navigate the massive travel hurdle to get there.


But wouldn't all those details already be taken care of? Planned months ago? I haven't travelled anywhere in a few years, so what do I know.

I might cancel after all it seems I have until Monday to get my full refund back on the hotel.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> But wouldn't all those details already be taken care of? Planned months ago? I haven't travelled anywhere in a few years, so what do I know.
> 
> I might cancel after all it seems I have until Monday to get my full refund back on the hotel.


Remember, the US is closed to Europeans right now. It is actually closed to all the Canadian who competed in Switzerland too this weekend. You have to apply for special exemption to fly there. The UCI has sent out instructions how to do this but it is still a big task.

Travel is super complex right now. You need a lot of paper work and have to do a bucket load of Covid-Tests. It is not normal times.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Honestly, if the US wanted more world cups, perhaps it should choose somewhere other than Snowshoe? It's a bit of a logistical nightmare. Back when nationals was there, I had to decide between driving from CO, or flying to the nearest airport, which is still something like 6 hours away. Add to that, at least in 2017, that it was a cell service deadspot, and there's not really anything else to do there, and it's not great. It's one hell of a haul for the Euros to get there for a race that's not super consequential.

Just my 2¢


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Remember, the US is closed to Europeans right now. It is actually closed to all the Canadian who competed in Switzerland too this weekend. You have to apply for special exemption to fly there. The UCI has sent out instructions how to do this but it is still a big task.
> 
> Travel is super complex right now. You need a lot of paper work and have to do a bucket load of Covid-Tests. It is not normal times.


Had no idea to be honest. I just assumed people travelling for work, as would be for a race like this, that it was fairly straight forward.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Had no idea to be honest. I just assumed people travelling for work, as would be for a race like this, that it was fairly straight forward.


American's travel easily. Everyone else, not so much. And depending on the country there as some pretty strict quarantine/testing you have to go through after traveling to the US.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

bikeranzin said:


> Honestly, if the US wanted more world cups, perhaps it should choose somewhere other than Snowshoe? It's a bit of a logistical nightmare. Back when nationals was there, I had to decide between driving from CO, or flying to the nearest airport, which is still something like 6 hours away. Add to that, at least in 2017, that it was a cell service deadspot, and there's not really anything else to do there, and it's not great. It's one hell of a haul for the Euros to get there for a race that's not super consequential.
> 
> Just my 2¢


I was really surprised to learn everyone flew into Washington D.C. and drove 5 hours. That just seems crazy. It is WAY out in the middle of nowhere. Like I said earlier, the closest chain hotel I could get in 2019 was almost 1 full hours drive away. Traverse City, MI was such a killer place back in the early days for big races. I went every year from 1991 until they stopped in 1996. So many hotels and places to stay. I guess it's just not that easy to get US venues to commit to a race or something. CO, CA, those seem like logical places.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The big plus for North American racing is the rumour NORAM series. I think this is for the 2023 season but there is tentatively planned a 5 or 6 race series made up of stops in US and Canada. Final stop is suppose to be an HC in Canmore Alberta.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'd love if they brought the Norba brand back for a series. For some reason that just worked. The early 90's had some great races in north america. The best of the best. It's just a big mess now, and everyone has to do gravel races just to keep busy.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

cityjackit said:


> Is the mens downhill championship already decided like the womens XC elite?
> 
> Sid


No, but it pretty much mirrors the men's XC. There's a mathematical chance like the men's XC but would be reliant on the current leader, Thibault Daprela, pretty much getting no points and second place, Loris Vergier, topping qualifying and the race (250 points up for grabs, Thibault is currently on 752, Loris is on 566)


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Brad said:


> I like Evie and Jenny's post race interviews. Jolanda always sounds frantic which grates me especially when everything is "super". That just cues the Minions song in my head.


Totally agree! 
But Sina Frei is the worst for overuse of 'Super' 
Call me old fashion but what happened to 'Very'


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm thinking of heading down to Snowshoe. When I checked about a month ago, there wasn't any lodging nearby (well...there was one, but it was $1800/ni). I looked today and a couple places had opened. Should I book now...or maybe wait until Tues or Wed and see if other (less spendy) stuff opens.

Anyone think there will be more cancellations?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

smartyiak said:


> I'm thinking of heading down to Snowshoe. When I checked about a month ago, there wasn't any lodging nearby (well...there was one, but it was $1800/ni). I looked today and a couple places had opened. Should I book now...or maybe wait until Tues or Wed and see if other (less spendy) stuff opens.
> 
> Anyone think there will be more cancellations?


Check a place called Brazenwood. Its north of the mtn by about 20 min. Its in a town called Mingo. My wife and I last night got a nice room for about 120 bucks a night for two nights.

Sid


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

LMN said:


> Last lap, last corner, as long as you don't crash you competitor it is fair game.
> 
> Don't want to be passed on the inside, don't leave it open. Simple as that.


100%. But where it gets grey is often in the area of elbowing.

Nonethelesss, insinuating Nino as an A**hole for this is pretty lame.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

madfella said:


> Totally agree!
> But Sina Frei is the worst for overuse of 'Super'
> Call me old fashion but what happened to 'Very'


Don't be pickin' on Mighty Mouse!!! LOL 
Yes, as much as I root for her you're right about the super duper super usage. 
IINM. Sina hasn't had a whole lot of experience with the English language.
Give her a couple more years of having to do interviews in a non-native tongue and I'm sure her vocabulary will broaden.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Augustus-G said:


> Don't be pickin' on Mighty Mouse!!! LOL
> Yes, as much as I root for her you're right about the super duper super usage.
> IINM. Sina hasn't had a whole lot of experience with the English language.
> Give her a couple more years of having to do interviews in a non-native tongue and I'm sure her vocabulary will broaden.


Super is used in German as well as English, so it's an easy one to go to under stress. I'm always amazed at how well most of the European (and other non-native English speaking) athletes do with interviews in English. I can only imagine how well I'd do if I were to be interviewed in German, much less my native English.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

That's a super comment.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Mitterwallner & Stigger race again for Austria today, in the U23 European Championship Road race. Stigger hasn't raced on the road for 3 years...when she won the Junior World Road race, a month after winning the Junior World XCO MTB.

Chris Blevins was in the break in yesterdays Tour of Britain stage; only to be caught 1.5km from the line.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Until recently, I was thinking Stigger was older than the 20, that she actually is. Her and Mitterwallner are going to win a lot of races in the future.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cal_len1 said:


> Until recently, I was thinking Stigger was older than the 20, that she actually is. Her and Mitterwallner are going to win a lot of races in the future.


Or they have hit their peak at 20 and will struggle to live up to expectations. That is actually the norm for those who excel at a young age.

Sport can be harsh.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I sure hope that's not the case.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

ShortTravelMag said:


> It would be nice if the UCI kind of "encouraged" racers to attend. The USA will not get a world cup back for years again I'm thinking if everyone says it's too far, or they don't want to bother.


The US will get a world cup if a promoter/resort is willing to pay the UCI's fees--it's that 'simple'. It is a money losing proposition--the general figure that is tossed around is a 200k loss for most promoters/cities/resorts, which explains the low interest in 'investing' in a promotional weekend with minimal ability to recoup costs. In the '90s corporate sponsors like Coors Light (yuck) threw money at the sport. Those days are obviously gone. If events like Lumberjack fill every hotel room in Traverse City, then why bother with a World Cup?

I think it's safe to say we'd all love to see an expanded World Cup. But even if the venues were there, the teams couldn't afford to fly around the world. It then becomes the corporate sponsor ROI 'chicken or the egg' conundrum as reliance on just the bike industry wouldn't cut it. I'm guessing it would cause many teams to collapse. I don't think smaller brands/factory teams could make that work.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's a long way for just one race; 2 years ago there was the Mont St Anne World Champs a week/ 10 days before, so the teams were there. 
By way of comparison, the CX World Cup usually has additional races at the US venues, as well as the World Cup races, to encourage teams to make the trip. Even then quite a few teams don't see the benefit, as having Flandrian/ Belgian sponsors, the product isn't available in the USA.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the answer is.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Exmuhle said:


> To be honest, I'm not sure what the answer is.


One thought would be hosting the US WC earlier in the season before the overalls are locked up. As the last race, people already have a pretty good idea where they stand, so they can easily calculate whether racing here is "worth it". But, if it's early in the season, it's much more risky for people with overall ambitions to blow it off.

This is, of course, ignoring the economics that you and euro-trash are talking about.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

bikeranzin said:


> One thought would be hosting the US WC earlier in the season before the overalls are locked up. As the last race, people already have a pretty good idea where they stand, so they can easily calculate whether racing here is "worth it". But, if it's early in the season, it's much more risky for people with overall ambitions to blow it off.


A few years ago there were plans for a SoCal XC World Cup in March followed by Sea Otter. Too bad it didn't pan out. It would have been just like you are describing. That would have been the most sensible model for a long-term venue in the U.S. In non-COVID times, having an East Coast race separated by a week with MSA is the only other model that I can see working. It's happened, but not for long periods of time.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

euro-trash said:


> A few years ago there were plans for a SoCal XC World Cup in March followed by Sea Otter. Too bad it didn't pan out. It would have been just like you are describing. That would have been the most sensible model for a long-term venue in the U.S. In non-COVID times, having an East Coast race separated by a week with MSA is the only other model that I can see working. It's happened, but not for long periods of time.


And just add Stellenbosch as a regular feature. One week in Southern California, the next Stellenbosch, then Europe. Circumnavigate the globe with your bike in a hard-shell case!


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cal_len1 said:


> Until recently, I was thinking Stigger was older than the 20, that she actually is. Her and Mitterwallner are going to win a lot of races in the future.


If Stigger can get her allergy or asthma (I forgot which it is) problems sorted out. They've had her up and down all season. She's had to pull out of several races this year because of it.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

LMN said:


> Or they have hit their peak at 20 and will struggle to live up to expectations. That is actually the norm for those who excel at a young age.
> 
> Sport can be harsh.


This is particularly true for young women runners. There have been countless 15-17 year old high school phenoms that look to be on track to be the next US world-class 1500m or 5K runner, then they usually flame out in college--injuries, or just that there are so many changes a female body goes through in adolescence. Cycling is probably more forgiving, but still...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> If Stigger can get her allergy or asthma (I forgot which it is) problems sorted out. They've had her up and down all season. She's had to pull out of several races this year because of it.


Asthma is very hard to get under control. If Stiggers is anything like mine it's allergy triggered and there's no way of telling when it's going to hit. I've become quite good at predicting when im at high risk and in what areas and at what time of year. Stellenbosch is particularly problematic in summer&#8230;.

ps on another WC in Stellenbosch&#8230;..
There's not been any talk about hosting another round . The company that organised the 2018 round also manages the Absa Cape Epic. They voluntarily put the 2019 event on hold in order to come back bigger and better in 2020, then covid hit... The 2020 round was not even on the preliminary calendar nor for 2021. Many of the riders would like it back because it's ideally timed to make a trip to the cape epic more cost attractive. CFR base themselves in Stellenbosch from December to February for training camp, Nino has an apartment in town and trains a lot of the Southern Hemisphere summer out there. Would love to see it back in the race calendar but I'm not holding my breath


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

paramount3 said:


> This is particularly true for young women runners. There have been countless 15-17 year old high school phenoms that look to be on track to be the next US world-class 1500m or 5K runner, then they usually flame out in college--injuries, or just that there are so many changes a female body goes through in adolescence. Cycling is probably more forgiving, but still...


There is HUGE pressure for disordered eating in running, and particularly women's running. Anorexia works pretty well short term, but starts to really crush you with injuries. There's some science that suggests men can get away with bad diets for longer, such as keto and veganism (not necessarily bad, but usually executed badly).


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Brad said:


> Asthma is very hard to get under control. If Stiggers is anything like mine it's allergy triggered and there's no way of telling when it's going to hit. I've become quite good at predicting when im at high risk and in what areas and at what time of year. Stella Bosch is particularly problematic in summer&#8230;.
> 
> ps on another WC in Stellenbosch&#8230;..
> There's not been any talk about hosting another round . The company that organised the 2018 round also manages the Absa cape epic. They voluntarily put the 2019 event on hold in order to come back bigger and better in 2020, then covid hit by the round was not even on the preliminary calendar. Many of the riders would like it back because it's ideally timed to make a trip to the cape epic more cost attractive. CFR base themselves in Stellenbosch from December to February for training camp, Nino has an apartment in town and trains a lot of the Southern Hemisphere summer out there. Would love to see it back in the race calendar but I'm not holding my breath


Thanks Brad. I sure would love to see another one back there. I thought it was a sweet looking circuit. I'd love to ride it. The Chute and Pick-up-Sticks are what I remember most.
I think I'm going to have to go watch that race again.... Happy Trails.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Du VTT à la route, Victor Koretzky fait le grand saut en Glaz !


Surdoué des sous-bois, médaillé de bronze des derniers Championnats du Monde de cross-country et n°1 mondial de la discipline, le prodige français du VTT rejoint le B&B HOTELS p/b KTM pour les deux prochaines saisons. Un défi à la hauteur de son talent et des ambitions du club breton.




www.bbhotels-cycling.bzh





Koretzky moving on from KMC-Orbea.....


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

LMN said:


> Or they have hit their peak at 20 and will struggle to live up to expectations. That is actually the norm for those who excel at a young age.
> 
> Sport can be harsh.


This can be particularly apparent for young boys. The ones who go through puberty first are at a massive advantage. In MTB, Anton Copper looked set to dominate the world, he had huge leg muscles at like 15, and while a great racer he's certainly not lived up to the hype.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Du VTT à la route, Victor Koretzky fait le grand saut en Glaz !
> 
> 
> Surdoué des sous-bois, médaillé de bronze des derniers Championnats du Monde de cross-country et n°1 mondial de la discipline, le prodige français du VTT rejoint le B&B HOTELS p/b KTM pour les deux prochaines saisons. Un défi à la hauteur de son talent et des ambitions du club breton.
> ...


To road racing...money move? Possibly...


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> To road racing...money move? Possibly...


Damn , that's sad if we doesn't see Koretzky on WC anymore


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

carlostruco said:


> To road racing...money move? Possibly...


Road and MTB it seems. MVDP and Pidcock have really started something! I don't see it going well, I hope it does. But it's hard enough to focus on one type of riding and racing series throughout a summer, right? I have no idea, but he might be even better at road than mtb for all we know. I don't blame him for wanting to try, you're only young once. He could pull a Cink, give it a try, realize he likes mtb better and come back full time.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Rivet said:


> This can be particularly apparent for young boys. The ones who go through puberty first are at a massive advantage. In MTB, Anton Copper looked set to dominate the world, he had huge leg muscles at like 15, and while a great racer he's certainly not lived up to the hype.


Anton Cooper has done great. Especially considering that massive WC concussion.





__





Anton COOPER's results


Anton COOPER's MTB/mountain biking results from 2012 to 2022




www.rootsandrain.com





I love this forum. A bunch of grown men throwing shade at consistent top 10 IN THE WORLD finishers and former world champions (name pretty much any WC who isn't winning at the moment). Criticizing the way they interview&#8230;calling them manic (Jolanda) even though they don't have one iota of insight into their life and psyche.

Side note:
Leg muscle development and shape has far more to do with your genetics and current training load. Not pubescent timing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I reckon this is a good move for Koretsky. He’s 28 so it’s now or never for a shot at road.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad said:


> I reckon this is a good move for Koretsky. He's 28 so it's now or never for a shot at road.


Dang...I didn't know he was that old. He's at the pinnacle of his powers...all downhill from here.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino wouldn't agree on that one 

But of course, his last seasons to earn some money before "normal" life


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Is riding as a first season domestique on a road team really that lucrative? You're almost literally a donkey. It's like being an assembly line grunt, compared with XCO, where you're riding for your own result--like owning your own business. Sort of.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Dang...I didn't know he was that old. He's at the pinnacle of his powers...all downhill from here.


Well 27 not 28


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> Is riding as a first season domestique on a road team really that lucrative? You're almost literally a donkey. It's like being an assembly line grunt, compared with XCO, where you're riding for your own result--like owning your own business. Sort of.


Mountain biking he was probably making 50-100 Euro, with his current results he could easily double that and then some in his next MTB contract. First year on the road probably making in that 50-100 Euro range but if he can ride in the top 3rd of field that would become 400-500 Euro.

But, as in true in most cases, I suspect his move to road is more about a desire to race on the road and find out what he can do rather than money.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

paramount3 said:


> Is riding as a first season domestique on a road team really that lucrative? You're almost literally a donkey. It's like being an assembly line grunt, compared with XCO, where you're riding for your own result--like owning your own business. Sort of.


There are very few big names on that team, maybe Rolland or Coquard who are certainly in the latter part of their careers, or maybe Bonnamour but he's still quite young. There's an argument to be made that he's now the biggest name on that team.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Now that Nino has announced he's going for the Maration world champs, there was a question as to whether the whole team is going to go to Snowshoe? Anyone seen him riding around? I think he's just as interested in tying and breaking Absalon's overall win record. He did very, very well at Snowshoe last time, I hope he shows up and gives it a go. I can see him winning there more than any other place.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Not to derail the purpose of this thread but as we're heading down to Snowshoe (from NY) how is the riding? Are any of the perimeter XC trails open during the UCI event weekend? I see Tea Creek forest has tons of trails just across the valley.


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## mojorules (Dec 23, 2005)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Now that Nino has announced he's going for the Maration world champs, there was a question as to whether the whole team is going to go to Snowshoe? Anyone seen him riding around? I think he's just as interested in tying and breaking Absalon's overall win record. He did very, very well at Snowshoe last time, I hope he shows up and gives it a go. I can see him winning there more than any other place.


They showed him and a teammate on the Redbull coverage at the downhill finish yesterday


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

What about Lecompte? My wife is dying to see her


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

cityjackit said:


> What about Lecompte? My wife is dying to see her


She's there but not racing. In 2019 I walked up to many of the racers before and after the races. I bet she'll be around.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Very cool. Never been to a world cup race. Do they have pits like in Moto? Can you walk up to their pits areas or tents? Do they have autograph lines and times? Any idea where the pits are located? At the top of the mtn where lodging is or at the bttm. of the mtn? Do you know if us wrsit band holders can ride the chair lift up and down?

Sorry for all the questions.

Sid


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Shorttrack on redbull in 5 hours


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## mojorules (Dec 23, 2005)

cityjackit said:


> Very cool. Never been to a world cup race. Do they have pits like in Moto? Can you walk up to their pits areas or tents? Do they have autograph lines and times? Any idea where the pits are located? At the top of the mtn where lodging is or at the bttm. of the mtn? Do you know if us wrsit band holders can ride the chair lift up and down?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.
> 
> Sid


 In 2019 the pits were at the top of the mountain and you could walk through. The lifts were open to ticket holders. Looking at video's its the same this year


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

cityjackit said:


> Very cool. Never been to a world cup race. Do they have pits like in Moto? Can you walk up to their pits areas or tents? Do they have autograph lines and times? Any idea where the pits are located? At the top of the mtn where lodging is or at the bttm. of the mtn? Do you know if us wrsit band holders can ride the chair lift up and down?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.
> 
> Sid


The pits were pretty small, and mainly just mechanics working on bikes during the day. The scott/sram tent did have a scheduled autograph/photo time where everyone was there signing a small photo thing. That was kinda cool. Everything is at the top of the mountain. If you're not already there, that is. I never thought of trying to ride the chair lifts.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mojorules said:


> They showed him and a teammate on the Redbull coverage at the downhill finish yesterday


There was an Instagram post yesterday of Schurter and a couple of teammates riding on the XC course. The video was pimping the new GoPro camera, but he's definitely there.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Eric F said:


> There was an Instagram post yesterday of Schurter and a couple of teammates riding on the XC course. The video was pimping the new GoPro camera, but he's definitely there.


Figured he'd be. He won the shorttrack and got 2nd in the XCO, one of his best weekends that year. I really wish I was there again, but next year will be a doubleshot of races I can attend hopefully. Enjoy yourselves if you're there.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Figured he'd be. He won the shorttrack and got 2nd in the XCO, one of his best weekends that year. I really wish I was there again, but next year will be a doubleshot of races I can attend hopefully. Enjoy yourselves if you're there.


I wish I was there. I have a good friend who is part of the crew that built the courses this year.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

ShortTravelMag said:


> The pits were pretty small, and mainly just mechanics working on bikes during the day. The scott/sram tent did have a scheduled autograph/photo time where everyone was there signing a small photo thing. That was kinda cool. Everything is at the top of the mountain. If you're not already there, that is. I never thought of trying to ride the chair lifts.


Thanks a ton again. We are leaving North Carolina here in about an hour and headed that way.

See you all up there.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

It will be interesting to see how the change of continents over to Snowshoe affects the placing. I suspect that jet lag has a significant effect on the legs. The culture shock mixes in there somewhere.

STXC means something, but not everything. So far some signposts are Blevins placing 4th and Schurter placing 15th. Sarrou seems on a normal pace at 6th. Did Blevins, Avancini, and Koretzsky give their best today? My money is on Flueckiger to win Sunday, then Sarrou, hard to call third.

As for the American women, they seem to be struggling _moreso_ while in the USA. In the STXC, Lea Davison, who's older than Nino, was the only girl in the top 20. Poor XC starting position for them all.

Can't wait to see what happens with this one on Sunday.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Men's: Flueckiger, Nino, then maybe Sarrou or Blevins or Koretsky. Women's: Evie for the win. Rissveds second. Becca McConnell, Jolanda Neff, Sina Frei, Anne Terpstra also likely to be in the mix.

Highest placed American woman: Haley Batten, somewhere around 10th to 15th. Highest placed Canadian: could this be the race for Laurie Arsenault?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> Highest placed American woman: Haley Batten, somewhere around 10th to 15th. Highest placed Canadian: could this be the race for Laurie Arsenault?


It certainly be nice see a young Canadian give Catharine a good run in her last WC.

North America coaching as a whole needs to look at the way riders are being trained. A 41yr old new mother shouldn't be the fastest women in north america.

I think we are training our riders too hard. There has been this real push to train hard and harder and I think now we have a lot of burned out athletes. I don't think super hard training it is necessary either. Catharine trained at 70-80% of what she had been the previous years. Her power numbers are as good as they have ever been, take away that 5kg of pregnancy weight and she would racing near the front of the field.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

LMN said:


> It certainly be nice see a young Canadian give Catharine a good run in her last WC.
> 
> North America coaching as a whole needs to look at the way riders are being trained. A 41yr old new mother shouldn't be the fastest women in north america.
> 
> I think we are training our riders too hard. There has been this real push to train hard and harder and I think now we have a lot of burned out athletes. I don't think super hard training it is necessary either. Catharine trained at 70-80% of what she had been the previous years. Her power numbers are as good as they have ever been, take away that 5kg of pregnancy weight and she would racing near the front of the field.


As a non-racing duffer, I agree that there seems to be a culture in North American sport that encourages overtraining. And I question the need for massive gym sessions and complex cross-training for endurance athletes. In other threads people have discussed "what happened to Kate Courtney?" and I and others have said she should try just riding her mountain bike and see how it goes.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Koretzky, Schurter, Colombo
Rissveds, Neff, Richards
for Sunday


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

I have often said/thought the same thing. I call this phenomenon the "Instagram Athlete". One who trains more for likes on Instagram than racing performance. Instagram glamorizes "going big"!
There is a time and place for strength work, but World Cup XCO is a specific discipline that requires specific fitness.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

To be fair to Kate, she was in a good position before she clipped Bec McConnell’s rear wheel on the brick road section. 

I wonder if she would benefit from having a female teammate on Scott-SRAM. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It’s kind of crazy that Rob Warner described Snowshoe as “one of the remotest places I’ve been in my life.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> To be fair to Kate, she was in a good position before she clipped Bec McConnell's rear wheel on the brick road section.
> 
> I wonder if she would benefit from having a female teammate on Scott-SRAM.


To be honest, I don't think Kate is having fun on the bike. She loves to use the word "process", but the process is truly not working for her this year. I believe she moved into a house of her own during the 2020 shutdown in California which could mean more stress. Although she'd never admit it on Instagram, maybe her heart just isn't in it this year.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Catharine Pendrel rides into her last World Cup weekend - Canadian Cycling Magazine


Canadian cross country icon's international career wraps up in Snowshoe, W.Va. this Sunday




cyclingmagazine.ca





I'm sure I speak for many, it's brought great joy to witness her career. Having LMN share behind the scenes details here, is the cherry on top.

All the best to Catharine. Hope she is able to enjoy her last WC.

Cheers.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> To be fair to Kate, she was in a good position before she clipped Bec McConnell's rear wheel on the brick road section.
> 
> I wonder if she would benefit from having a female teammate on Scott-SRAM.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, my comment was a general one about Kate Courtney, I agree she seemed to be going strong on Friday before the crash. And even having said what I said, there are hundreds of possible reasons why KC's season hasn't gone as well as hoped, maybe having nothing to do with overtraining/crosstraining. It will be interesting to see how she comes back on Sunday.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

cycloholic said:


>


LOL ran into a guy yesterday wearing cut off jean shorts, had an accent that sounded like an Aussie. I thought good for him no one else on that trail will be wearing jorts that's for sure!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Kate certainly take a lot of undeserved flack. I don't know Kate super well, but I do know that there is probably only one other north american rider who puts more hours on the bike than Kate.

If you think her gym sessions are the corner stone of her training then you also probably think that making your top tube a thumb width longer magically transforms you bike. Gym is what she shares, people are interested in gym workouts. 6hr rides at 130bpm just aren't that interesting on instagram. 

I don't think the problem is at the athlete level, I think it is at the coaching level. For years in North America we were on this low volume high intensity model, now I think we have gone too far the other way. Volumes are absolutely huge and I think it is burning athletes out.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

either that or to many subscribe to StrainerRoad


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## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

I feel like Kate has too much expectation forced on her shoulders. She was great from late 2018 to mid 2019 but hasn't been at that level since. She may have peaked.

Getting back to that level and sustaining it is something very few riders accomplish.

For every Absalon there must be 5-10 Kerschbaumers.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Mamil1 said:


> I feel like Kate has too much expectation forced on her shoulders. She was great from late 2018 to mid 2019 but hasn't been at that level since. She may have peaked.
> 
> Getting back to that level and sustaining it is something very few riders accomplish.
> 
> For every Absalon there must be 5-10 Kerschbaumers.


There are a lot of riders who enjoyed a peak of about 6 months. At the time, none of them knew it was their peak.

It would be interesting to list the single season phenoms.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

I think training is less precise than many people online seem to think, but more complicated. What wrings out that last little bit for a pro is so dependent on the individual athlete, their racing and training background, point in career/age, illnesses, life situation, etc. Seems like sometimes a very successful athlete figures out what works for them and everyone else thinks they need to copy to compete, but then they are training in someone else's personal sweet spot. There is a great triathlon video out there called, "What it takes" and you watch Peter Reid, a fantastic athlete with recent huge success at that time, struggle through a season where he's all in, but his personal situation just isn't going great and it shows up in his performance. IDK what is up with Kate right now, she certainly isn't at her best, but she's shown she has the motor. If she is over-trained, she may be able to back off a bit next year and come out stronger than ever and actually benefit from a year of having done too much. Or maybe the answer is something else. Hopefully its not some wacky diet, which seem to be all the rage these days.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Koretzky
Cink
Vader (wildcard)

Rissveds
Richards
Frei


From Flueckiger’s interview I feel like he’s just gonna do victory laps.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

cycloholic said:


>


What's the point of this, what is he trying to prove other than be an attention whore.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mtballday said:


> I think training is less precise than many people online seem to think, but more complicated. What wrings out that last little bit for a pro is so dependent on the individual athlete, their racing and training background, point in career/age, illnesses, life situation, etc. Seems like sometimes a very successful athlete figures out what works for them and everyone else thinks they need to copy to compete, but then they are training in someone else's personal sweet spot. There is a great triathlon video out there called, "What it takes" and you watch Peter Reid, a fantastic athlete with recent huge success at that time, struggle through a season where he's all in, but his personal situation just isn't going great and it shows up in his performance. IDK what is up with Kate right now, she certainly isn't at her best, but she's shown she has the motor. If she is over-trained, she may be able to back off a bit next year and come out stronger than ever and actually benefit from a year of having done too much. Or maybe the answer is something else. Hopefully its not some wacky diet, which seem to be all the rage these days.


Peter is pretty darn good mountain biker nowadays. He was up my way flying water bombers this year, we tried to meet up for a ride but he had a really busy summer.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mtballday said:


> I think training is less precise than many people online seem to think, but more complicated. What wrings out that last little bit for a pro is so dependent on the individual athlete, their racing and training background, point in career/age, illnesses, life situation, etc.


I find it rather fascinating/interesting. For all the science/research, etc Elite athletes & their coaches can still scratch their heads at what is wrong. It must be so frustrating; they do all the training, seemingly hit all their numbers, then come race day, and the legs/lungs aren't there. 
Do they know when they get up, it's not their day? Or when they're on the turbo warming up? Or on the start line?

They may be Elite athletes, but they're the same as us; with the same issues in the background that may affect them. Some are quite open about their issues, and others less so as maybe they aren't as comfortable. We're quite good on here for not criticising when we don't know everything - other places maybe not so kind.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad said:


> either that or to many subscribe to StrainerRoad


Do you have any example or it is just a thought?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> I find it rather fascinating/interesting. For all the science/research, etc Elite athletes & their coaches can still scratch their heads at what is wrong. It must be so frustrating; they do all the training, seemingly hit all their numbers, then come race day, and the legs/lungs aren't there.
> Do they know when they get up, it's not their day? Or when they're on the turbo warming up? Or on the start line?
> 
> They may be Elite athletes, but they're the same as us; with the same issues in the background that may affect them. Some are quite open about their issues, and others less so as maybe they aren't as comfortable. We're quite good on here for not criticising when we don't know everything - other places maybe not so kind.


Well, it would be boring if all results would be written down in paper before race, that's why racing is interesting. In other sports there are a lot examples of top athletes who are mediocre on training, qualifying etc but they shine when it matters the most - on the raceday , and vice versa.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Anyone know how amateur women for the usa are racing this world cup? Is there some provision where the host country can send people without the minimum uci points?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

bikeranzin said:


> Anyone know how amateur women for the usa are racing this world cup? Is there some provision where the host country can send people without the minimum uci points?


Isn't it just like 20uci points?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> Isn't it just like 20uci points?


I'm referring to legitimate amateurs. One of which raced XCO nats as an amateur this year, and almost got lapped. So I don't know how she'd have collected 20 UCI points between then and now.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Blevins!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Blevins!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This!!


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

That did my heart joy.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

I didn’t call it before the race but after lap 3 with him sitting in 3rd I told my son he’d take the W. Exciting stuff for sure. Anyone know what happened with Kate Courtney?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

arca_tern said:


> I didn't call it before the race but after lap 3 with him sitting in 3rd I told my son he'd take the W. Exciting stuff for sure. Anyone know what happened with Kate Courtney?


Clipped a rear wheel in XCC on Thursday. Went down pretty hard. Probably wasn't feeling too great today.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

arca_tern said:


> I didn't call it before the race but after lap 3 with him sitting in 3rd I told my son he'd take the W. Exciting stuff for sure. Anyone know what happened with Kate Courtney?


I was thinking the same thing.

I told my wife, "These guys better get rid of him soon or he's going to have a last 60 seconds they can't match."

Also: Luke V with a solid 24th, and Brian Matter, older than dirt, nearly finishing on the lead lap of an XCO WC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

That was mightily impressive from Blevins; similar to his XCC win; didn't waste any energy he didn't need to, then when he had to, he just went for it with blistering acceleration.

As for Evie, seems to be in super form, and riding like the World Champion - and going by her pre race interview, will be doing some of the US CX races....


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

This was the first XC short course and xco races I’ve ever watched - oh man I’m hooked! Is there any way to watch CX live as well this fall?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Wow! The kid did it! He'd been road racing in Europe for the past couple weeks. First American win since Tinker Juarez in 1994

Looks like Fluekiger had a bad day but he's wrapped up the overall title. Flats eliminated a lot of top competitors but Blevins raced such a smart race being patient in the top 5, and then a blink and a look over the shoulder and he was gone!

He spoke very eloquently. I was proud scouting him out back at the Cactus Cup and watching him progress. Christopher Blevins will be a fine representative of the USA from now on.



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-snowshoe-xc-world-cup-2021.html


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

What a perfect ending to the xc season for the men…US takes the W in the US against a stacked field. About time we have a top player. Awesome. Next season oughta be exciting.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

Danimal said:


> This was the first XC short course and xco races I've ever watched - oh man I'm hooked! Is there any way to watch CX live as well this fall?


There are three weekends of a new USCX series that will all be televised on GCN. The US pro calendar kicked off this weekend (not streamed).

There are three UCI world Cups and the UCI WC all in America this year!!! All of course streamed.

Beyond that, all other world cups will have Americans racing and be available to watch.

There are other European CX series also (ethias, superprestige, etc) all available to watch.

Rochester C1 and C2 races are the first of the USCX series and are next weekend on GCN!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Many of the Euro races are readily found on YouTube within a couple of hours. 


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Wow! The kid did it! He'd been road racing in Europe for the past couple weeks. First American win since Tinker Juarez in 1994
> 
> Looks like Fluekiger had a bad day but he's wrapped up the overall title. Flats eliminated a lot of top competitors but Blevins raced such a smart race being patient in the top 5, and then a blink and a look over the shoulder and he was gone!
> 
> ...


Oh yeah you scouted him, did you help with his bike setup too? I'm sure his bars level are with his saddle (that's sarcasm).


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

SPOILER >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



anybody know what happened to Kate Courtney in the XC? looked like she was saying to BC "i've never (quit/crashed?) this much in my life..." and then something else harder to make out. she had that crash in the short track, i wonder if it's another hit to the head? outwardly, she looked ok.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

She had a lot of KT tape from the short track crash, probably related to his dnf


Shame that Nino had a flat, would have been interesting battle with Blevins


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

cycloholic said:


> Do you have any example or it is just a thought?


TrainerRoad is quite notorious for over-working athletes with their sweet-spot based plans.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I have to say that flats took a lot of riders out of contention yesterday; by my count that was: Fluekiger, Koretsky, Sarrou, Avancini, Schurter. That said, in the position they were in, I don't think Schurter was out-sprinting Blevins's young legs.



Raikzz said:


> She had a lot of KT tape from the short track crash, probably related to his dnf
> 
> Shame that Nino had a flat, would have been interesting battle with Blevins


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

MessagefromTate said:


> Oh yeah you scouted him, did you help with his bike setup too? I'm sure his bars level are with his saddle (that's sarcasm).


No he's 6'1" and used a dropper post yesterday. The Olympic champion and silver medalist did have their setups on the level though.

Despite umpteen loser trolls getting it wrong, I'll still be here to set things right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> No he's 6'1" and used a dropper post yesterday. The Olympic champion and silver medalist did have their setups on the level though.
> 
> Despite umpteen loser trolls getting it wrong, I'll still be here to set things right.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No the Olympic champion and silver medallist don't have their saddle level, you really need to have your eyes checked.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

What a great race it was for the men, just looking at the top 10 at the finish there are some really unexpected names (for me at least), like Luca Schwarzbauer in 6th place on the old Spark, and David Nordemann in 9th place for American Eagle. Will be good for their motivation for the winter training months, and also good for us viewers that the men's racing is starting to be as unpredictable as the women's with a lot of riders capable of a top 5 finish, instead of just being either Absalon or Schurter winning like it used to be a couple of years ago.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> It's kind of crazy that Rob Warner described Snowshoe as "one of the remotest places I've been in my life."
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you been there? It's pretty nuts. As the crow flies, it isn't that far, but driving in is windy experience going through the sticks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

chomxxo said:


> I have to say that flats took a lot of riders out of contention yesterday; by my count that was: Fluekiger, Koretsky, Sarrou, Avancini, Schurter. That said, in the position they were in, I don't think Schurter was out-sprinting Blevins's young legs.


I've never ridden the course, but it didn't look particularly technical to ride by WC standards. However, all those straight rocky downhills seemed so fast and that speed made them look so scary! All of the guys were sprinting over the top and not touching their brakes at all on the downs. Those downhills looked absolutely punishing on their upper bodies and bikes.

Maybe, the tameness of the course caught some riders out on tire selection. I bet you Nino regrets not putting a insert in or upping the pressure.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Victor Koretsky wheelying back to the pits after he had his front tyre puncture was pure class.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

xcskier66 said:


> I've never ridden the course, but it didn't look particularly technical to ride by WC standards. However, all those straight rocky downhills seemed so fast and that speed made them look so scary! All of the guys were sprinting over the top and not touching their brakes at all on the downs. Those downhills looked absolutely punishing on their upper bodies and bikes.
> 
> Maybe, the tameness of the course caught some riders out on tire selection. I bet you Nino regrets not putting a insert in or upping the pressure.


was in an argument on another forum with someone claiming 2.4s were the best ever b/c Nino runs them. I think he only went to 2.4 to get rid of the liner in his 2.2. as you said, maybe didn't work out as intended today.....


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Victor Koretsky wheelying back to the pits after he had his front tyre puncture was pure class.
> 
> View attachment 1949108


Even more so when he raced back to 9th place to keep 2nd in the WC overall standings. Hope he goes from strength t strength



FactoryMatt said:


> was in an argument on another forum with someone claiming 2.4s were the best ever b/c Nino runs them. I think he only went to 2.4 to get rid of the liner in his 2.2. as you said, maybe didn't work out as intended today.....


he also runs super lightweight 180tpi tyres that is only available to the team. Those tyres are paper thin so I'm surprised he doesn't puncture more often


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

WR304 said:


> Victor Koretsky wheelying back to the pits after he had his front tyre puncture was pure class.
> 
> View attachment 1949108


What he did was what every kid in the parking lot for a race dreams about needing to do.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

My impressions of the course, despite an admitted American bias, was, "wow that looks faster and more fun overall" than most of the other European courses. They all have tough descents in places but Snowshoe looked like it flowed together interestingly.

I don't know why so many people flatted. Sometimes the character of the terrain lends itself to punctures; I've had as many on a particular Texas trail full of smooth pebbles as some jagged desert trail with cactuses.

The fact that so many racers punctured indicates it wasn't a particular tire choice, but inserts would've been a good idea for even lower pressure. The 160TPI pro-only Aspens are probably less durable than what we're able to buy.

My point was leaning less towards equipment and more towards the fact that Blevins was riding so well yesterday, I'd feel confident he could have duked it out with anybody who flatted. Rationally speaking though, Koretsky and some of the other guys looked really strong, and every winner has to get a little lucky. Can't wait for next year!



xcskier66 said:


> I've never ridden the course, but it didn't look particularly technical to ride by WC standards. However, all those straight rocky downhills seemed so fast and that speed made them look so scary! All of the guys were sprinting over the top and not touching their brakes at all on the downs. Those downhills looked absolutely punishing on their upper bodies and bikes.
> 
> Maybe, the tameness of the course caught some riders out on tire selection. I bet you Nino regrets not putting a insert in or upping the pressure.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> I told my wife, "These guys better get rid of him soon or he's going to have a last 60 seconds they can't match."
> 
> ...


I spoke to Brian a few weeks ago and at that time, he never mentioned racing in Snowshoe. He did a few races in Wisconsin in the summer and hosted a CX clinic a couple of days ago. He still rides almost every day, he just doesn't train much. Also, he's going to ''retire'' at the end of this year. I'll let you know how many pounds he gains from December til March or until Whiskey Off Road


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I can’t take this information!

Pro Aspens AKA Faspens are 170tpi

Carry on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

xcskier66 said:


> Maybe, the tameness of the course caught some riders out on tire selection. I bet you Nino regrets not putting a insert in or upping the pressure.


To me it looked a lot like he rode in on a flat with an insert in it.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

It looks like Victor Koretsky might be staying at KMC Orbea, rather than moving to the B&B Hotels road team. Apparently he still has a year left on his contract:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440046760953479172


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

WOW! First world cup race. I don't know what was more exciting, the DH on Saturday or the XC on Sunday. Both were equal in my opinion but two different kinds of awesome.

The vibe up there on the mtn and I'm assuming all mtb races is sooooo different than moto. everyone is so friendly and fit to say the least. Its bikes everywhere. DAMN then DH rigs are so fricking sweet. They had things on their bikes that I had no idea what they were. All the latest goodies and colors. every rider who I knew the face and name of were more than happy to talk, shake hands........yes shake hands, no fist bumps.   Masks were very few and far far between. So nice to forget about the world for 3 days and enjoy the 70 deg days up there.

My wife and I were walking around early Sunday morning 9:30/10am in the pits. I was checking out the new Scott Sparc(internal/hidden rear shock) over at their tent and Kate Courtney was just sitting and eating under the tent, when my wife comes over and says, come check this girl out. I walk over to where she was and in between the TREK tent and a rental uhaul is Evie Richards in short spandex doing air squats with a band around her thighs. JESUS! I'll leave it at that. She is a beast and blonde hair for days. My wife spoke to her for a bit after she was done stretching. Soooo humble and original. Great to see a world class athlete like that. Loris Vergier (spelling) was sitting under the tent hanging out also. Got a pic and some convo.

I was staying about eight miles away at a cabin and the Canyon team was staying there along with a few privateers. Ate breakfast with them all. So approachable, all of them. Spoke to a Canyon Canadian ? girl by the name of Laurie Arseneault (spelling?) So friendly. We were looking to cheer for her cuz she said she was starting on the 2nd row #54. Didn't see her until a bit into the race. Seems she was one of two who went down on the start with Stigger. Laurie did have to get some seat/post work done. But she rolled after that.

Track was hard pack and a bit damp in the woods. how the hell they climb that uphill out of the woods and then immediately get back up to crazy speed is unreal.

Needless to say, we had a blast and will be going back next July.

Oh yeah, the privateer who stayed at our hotel. He was on the last line of starting but was culled on the third lap with some others. He was so nice all night while I watched him wrench on his bike and asked too many questions I'm sure. An awesome source for fueling and nutrition. Thanks Ken from Corning area NY. Hope you got home safe man.

Sid


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I think I missed something, when Koretsky got his flat, well just before, he didn't' seem to be in the leading group, I thought maybe he'd flatted or blown up and gone backwards... but then he was taking the B line with a flat...had he just gone way off the front and then gotten the flat...or was i just blind and he was in the lead group?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Victor Koretzky was in the front group when he punctured. There was a section just before that final man made rock garden at the end of the lap that wasn't covered by a TV camera. On different laps Victor Koretzky, Nino Schurter and Henrique Avancini all seemed to puncture around the same place so maybe there was a particular bit off camera that caused a lot of the issues.

From Ondrej Cink's Strava:









World Cup Lenzerheide 8th - Ondřej C.'s 27.0 km mountain bike ride


Ondřej C. rode 27.0 km on Sep 5, 2021.




www.strava.com





Lenzerheide 2021 = 12.7mph average speed, maximum speed 27.7mph









World Cup Snowshoe 🇺🇸 P3 🔥 - Ondřej C.'s 27.0 km mountain bike ride


3rd in overall 🙏🏼




www.strava.com





Snowshoe 2021 = 13.5mph average speed, maximum speed 27.5mph

Although it looked fast watching the Snowshoe race (with lots of punctures for the leaders) wasn't actually that much quicker than the Lenzerheide race (without lots of punctures).

The Snowshoe course looked to have lots of square edged rocks and the riders spent much of the time in a relatively large group riding closely together, so would have been frequently unsighted.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Lenzerheide is known to be really fast course, biggest climb there is very fast rolling hardpack and all the other climbs are very short.

"proper" xco tracks the avg speed is about 15-18kmh

More easier the course the more the pack is staying together and the more we have "suprise" guys finish on the front


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> More easier the course the more the pack is staying together and the more we have "suprise" guys finish on the front


Not really a surprise to some who have followed Blevins for a few years. I'd say his bike skills are right up there with the best in the sport. You have to realize he just graduated from university in June 2021. He has been stretching his time and energy between his studies, his rap/poetry, and racing bikes for years. Now he may have a little more mental energy to focus on racing which could possibly explain his win as a first year elite.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Haven't seen anything mentioned about Rebecca McConnell. This woman is way overdue for an XCO Elite win. She was riding strong in front of Evie and then got the front flat.... I didn't do a lap time comparison, but it appeared she slowed at that point and Evie dropped the hammer. If Rebecca hadn't have gotten that flat, I like her odds of winning that.... but it seems like it broke her and re-lit the fire in Evie's engine room.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Stonerider said:


> Not really a surprise to some who have followed Blevins for a few years. I'd say his bike skills are right up there with the best in the sport. You have to realize he just graduated from university in June 2021. He has been stretching his time and energy between his studies, his rap/poetry, and racing bikes for years. Now he may have a little more mental energy to focus on racing which could possibly explain his win as a first year elite.


Well yes and no, he has enough power to stay in leading pack when track is easier and has enough power to go for a win on later stage, but he hasn't never been close to podium, or even close to top10 in "regular" tracks, that's just facts.

I'm not trying to take anything away from his win, 100% earned victory and i like him, even more so when he took the XCC world champs from Avancini


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

All front flats?
Anton Cooper got one too.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Raikzz said:


> Well yes and no, he has enough power to stay in leading pack when track is easier and has enough power to go for a win on later stage, but he hasn't never been close to podium, or even close to top10 in "regular" tracks, that's just facts.
> 
> I'm not trying to take anything away from his win, 100% earned victory and i like him, even more so when he took the XCC world champs from Avancini


I think that him taking the XCC title and then winning an XCO two weeks later is decent evidence that neither was a fluke event. My bet is that he'll start to be a regular face in the top-20 and top-10 of races, similar to Koretzky, both of which are totally capable of winning a race.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Ive never seen a race where I wanted all of the top 3 leaders to win. Cink, Schurter and Blevins (spl) all for various reasons. 

Blevins was nobody’s fool that day. 

It seems like Cink prefer to ride on the front whether it’s to control the pace and keep from getting gapped on Downhills.

Schurter… a split second decision or no line of sight being second wheel can cause those flats. Very noble and sportsman of him to move to the side on that turn as he realized the flat was too severe to win. 

None the less, you could see how hard Blevins pushed it because those gaps really spread out in the last 2 minutes of the race. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

WR304 said:


> World Cup Lenzerheide 8th - Ondřej C.'s 27.0 km mountain bike ride
> 
> 
> Ondřej C. rode 27.0 km on Sep 5, 2021.
> ...


That's a significantly faster course.

.8 is massive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

jrob300 said:


> Haven't seen anything mentioned about Rebecca McConnell. This woman is way overdue for an XCO Elite win. She was riding strong in front of Evie and then got the front flat.... I didn't do a lap time comparison, but it appeared she slowed at that point and Evie dropped the hammer. If Rebecca hadn't have gotten that flat, I like her odds of winning that.... but it seems like it broke her and re-lit the fire in Evie's engine room.


At some point, the announcer said Evie was up on Rebecca by 35 secs. after her mechanical. then she closed the gap back to Evie within 15 secs. My wife noticed that Evie's coach stepped out to her side during one of her pass-bys through the pits and said something to her. from then on, the gap grew between her and Rebecca. Hammer TIME!


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

jrob300 said:


> Haven't seen anything mentioned about Rebecca McConnell. This woman is way overdue for an XCO Elite win. She was riding strong in front of Evie and then got the front flat.... I didn't do a lap time comparison, but it appeared she slowed at that point and Evie dropped the hammer. If Rebecca hadn't have gotten that flat, I like her odds of winning that.... but it seems like it broke her and re-lit the fire in Evie's engine room.


I agree with her being overdue for a win. From my perspective on the race, it looked like Rebecca "attacked" pretty hard during the flat lap to get to the tech zone faster to help limit her time losses. To some extent it makes a lot of sense, since you can recover while your mechanic is fixing your bike, so if it's up to you, go a little harder to get to the zone.

But, that's just what I was guessing, as it was a slow flat, so I don't know what she was thinking before and after.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> Have you been there? It's pretty nuts. As the crow flies, it isn't that far, but driving in is windy experience going through the sticks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I drove in from NY and shortly after you pass Morgantown the roads become extremely winding and hilly. I think at one point google maps said I had 60 more miles and it was forecasting almost 2 hours of drive time.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Snowshoe -

Do folks consider the snowshoe XCO course to be not very technical? It was given a "ghost" 6-out-of-10 rating for tech, but I wonder how arbitrary that value is. Also, watching Cink get slowly shot out the back due to being dropped off the downhill sections made me think it must be pretty challenging. Although, conditions being super dry definitely made the track easier to manage for the riders.

I could not believe how many flat tires there were during the race. Are these double aspen / double renegade type of tire combos not substantial enough for such a course? I wonder if many of the flats were caused by a single track section.

Victor looked to have been the favorite given his grind back up to 8th. He looked composed as he rode solo through the field. Really wanted to see how Nino could respond to Blevin's final attack if he did not have that flat tire. Crazy race, overall.

Lastly, why do the commentators and the racers keep talking about the WV fans being so amazing? I imagine that if you get a few thousand fans at each race the fan intensity level is about the same always. Is there really a noticeable difference at snowshoe or is this just another regurgitated talking point like who's using a dropper, or how Cink just cannot descend.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

le_pedal said:


> I could not believe how many flat tires there were during the race. Are these double aspen / double renegade type of tire combos not substantial enough for such a course? I wonder if many of the flats were caused by a single track section.


We heard several times that there were lots of square face rocks, so it would have been a matter of line choice, skill, and maybe a little luck on whether you got a flat. Maybe someone was paying closer attention than me, but I didn't notice a trend of any specific brands causing more flats than others.



le_pedal said:


> Lastly, why do the commentators and the racers keep talking about the WV fans being so amazing? I imagine that if you get a few thousand fans at each race the fan intensity level is about the same always. Is there really a noticeable difference at snowshoe or is this just another regurgitated talking point like who's using a dropper, or how Cink just cannot descend.


After the first race, the riders consistently talked about how the fans were so nice and encouraging, aside from the normal loud cheering. Also, it was probably one of the bigger crowds of the past two years.


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## maxflia (Aug 18, 2016)

Kind of off subject but can someone tell me who the guy was that had cheetah/leopard colored hair. He had his arm in a sling. I also think he was a DH racer.


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## mojorules (Dec 23, 2005)

Dean Lucas a downhiller from Australia


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## maxflia (Aug 18, 2016)

mojorules said:


> Dean Lucas a downhiller from Australia


Thanks


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Well yes and no, he has enough power to stay in leading pack when track is easier and has enough power to go for a win on later stage, but he hasn't never been close to podium, or even close to top10 in "regular" tracks, that's just facts.
> 
> I'm not trying to take anything away from his win, 100% earned victory and i like him, even more so when he took the XCC world champs from Avancini


The course had nothing to do with it. Blevins just has really good form relative to his competition right now. For a variety of reasons he has gas in tank when others don't.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Raikzz said:


> Well yes and no, he has enough power to stay in leading pack when track is easier and has enough power to go for a win on later stage, but he hasn't never been close to podium, or even close to top10 in "regular" tracks, that's just facts.
> 
> I'm not trying to take anything away from his win, 100% earned victory and i like him, even more so when he took the XCC world champs from Avancini


I think we may be at a point in Blevins' development where we can't really use past performances as a predictor of his abilities. He's a young guy who is facing new challenges, and putting new demands on his body. Prior to Snowshoe, he raced in the 8-day-long Tour of Britain, which likely gave him a significant fitness boost going into the final WC race. His power is undeniable, and having the fitness to be there at the end makes him a big threat. I hope to see more of this from Blevins, but only time will tell.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> That's a significantly faster course.
> 
> .8 is massive.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, I made a typo in that post.

Ondrej Cink's average speed for the Snowshoe XCO race on Strava was 13.3mph, rather than 13.5mph. He was actually 0.6mph average speed quicker at Snowshoe (where he finished 3rd) to Lenzerheide (where he had a bad race and finished 8th).

With the full results I had a look to see how speeds looked further down the field. There were 80 finishers on the lead lap at Lenzerheide 2021 but only 35 finishers on the lead lap at Snowshoe 2021. Anyone dropping more than 10 minutes behind the leaders was pulled out so didn't get a full finish time.

The Snowshoe round saw a greater average speed difference for the leaders than the midpack and backmarkers. Further down the field the speeds grew closer together for the same position so although Snowshoe was faster overall it wasn't a uniform across the board speed boost.

Christopher Blevins, the winner at Snowshoe averaged 13.41mph, 0.56mph faster than Victor Koretsky at Lenzerheide, where he won with an average speed of 12.84mph.

Maxime Marotte, 10th at Snowshoe, averaged 13.13mph which was 0.46mph faster than Luca Shwarzbauer who was 10th at Lenzerheide with an average speed of 12.67mph.

Andri Frischnecht was 20th at both Snowshoe and Lenzerheide. He averaged 12.77mph at Snowshoe which was 0.33mph faster than the 12.44mph he'd averaged at Lenzerheide

Outside the top 20 the small field at Snowshoe was nowhere near as deep so a comparison by placing gets a bit difficult to do. Anton Cooper was 30th at Lenzerheide with an average speed of 12.19mph. 30th place at Snowshoe was Bruno Vitali with an average speed of 12.28mph, just 0.08mph faster. Bruno Vitali was 63rd at Lenzerheide (Anton Cooper was 26th at Snowshoe) so if the full Lenzerheide field had been at Snowshoe Bruno Vitali would likely have been lower placed than 30th.

The final finisher on the lead lap at Snowshoe was Raphael Auclair in 35th with an average speed of 11.94mph. At Lenzerheide Gerhard Kerschbaumer finished 35th with an average speed of 12.07mph, 0.13mph faster for 35th place at Lenzerheide than the faster course of Snowshoe! That's not a very fair comparison though as there were 80 finishers on the lead lap at Lenzerheide, the final one of those being Hugo Drechou in 80th place who had an average speed of 11.36mph, 0.58mph slower than the final finisher on the lead lap at Snowshoe.

A smaller field also means less traffic so there's less obstruction for the riders near the back, which could have been a significant contributing factor at the very back of the field.












https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-lenzerheide-xc-world-cup-2021.html





https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-snowshoe-xc-world-cup-2021.html


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for the breakdown. While 13.x mph is not out of bounds for an amateur or semi-pro race that's flat-ish, the difference of 2 mph for the back finishers (who are fast locals) should show the difference in the amount of climbing (as well as the effect of moderate 5000 foot altitude).

Strava does its own weird re-calculations on MPH so take it with a grain of salt (is almost always different in the FIT file and Trainingpeaks), but I suppose comparing Strava times between each other is accurate.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I took the overall distance from Ondrej Cink's Strava files and then recalculated the average speed for the riders using the official UCI race finishing times, rather than Strava times. That's hopefully more consistent for this as the official timing excludes pressing the start stop button on a Garmin at different points and any distance variations in recordings. Ondrej Cink used the same Garmin Edge 830 for each race so the altitude and distance totals should be comparable to themselves.

It wasn't mentioned in the Red Bull tv broadcast but Victor Koretsky put a note in his Strava that he had two punctures during the race:









8th 🙈 2 flats tyres , hopefully 2nd on overall 😍🇺🇸 - Victor K.'s 25.7 km mountain bike ride


Still good shape




www.strava.com





.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

WR304 said:


> I took the overall distance from Ondrej Cink's Strava files and then recalculated the average speed for the riders using the official UCI race finishing times, rather than Strava times. That's hopefully more consistent for this as the official timing excludes pressing the start stop button on a Garmin at different points and any distance variations in recordings. Ondrej Cink used the same Garmin Edge 830 for each race so the altitude and distance totals should be comparable to themselves.
> 
> It wasn't mentioned in the Red Bull tv broadcast but Victor Koretsky put a note in his Strava that he had two punctures during the race:
> 
> ...


Wouldn't that only work if he was running a front wheel sensor?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Since many of the top females seemed to be burned out at the end of the year, could overtraining be the issue? In this article, How I train: Evie Richards, Evie said she only trains on the bike 3 or 4 days per week. Is this just during her off-season? But she did seem much fresher than others at the end of the season.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Stonerider said:


> Since many of the top females seemed to be burned out at the end of the year, could overtraining be the issue? In this article, How I train: Evie Richards, Evie said she only trains on the bike 3 or 4 days per week. Is this just during her off-season? But she did seem much fresher than others at the end of the season.


I have a difficult time imagining that she only rides 3 or 4 times a week. But hey, what do I know...

Maybe that's during a race week?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Later in the article she says about the off-season, "I'm on my bike every day..."

First thing, it's easy to see without reading the article that she lifts, Evie looks like a track star. Reading the article she says she does that twice a week. So there's your full training week.

Secondly, it sounds like she does what her coach tells her to do and doesn't look much at the numbers, but somebody is looking at them.



le_pedal said:


> I have a difficult time imagining that she only rides 3 or 4 times a week. But hey, what do I know...
> 
> Maybe that's during a race week?


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

She posted a “day in the life” video on YouTube (her only video, actually), and in the video she goes for a run, does some core workouts and does a very long ride. I tend to believe that she does these things most days…. Her fitness this year and in 2020 suggests the same.

Dan


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Wouldn't that only work if he was running a front wheel sensor?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ideally a recorded ride with a calibrated front wheel speed sensor would be closest to the actual distance.

With GPS speed on a mountain bike the main limiting factors for distance are if there is a good enough signal (tree cover affecting accuracy), the speed of the rider (slow climbs and tight sections at low speed being the worst) and frequent changes of direction. With these professional XCO races at Lenzerheide and Snowshoe they were both at ski resorts so there isn't much of the course under tree cover, it was good weather and the riders were travelling at over 10mph most of the time so the GPS looks to be about as good as it will get for mountain biking. There were still frequent changes of direction so it's not exact and there are differences between individual riders distance on both races.

The problem is that I don't think I trust the official distances either. The Lenzerheide official race distance is a mile more than any of the Strava race distances covered. According to the official results Lenzerheide was faster than Snowshoe, which directly contradicts the Strava race files of multiple riders.

The links below are for the official UCI World Cup results. These have the overall times and average speeds (in kmh) for every rider. From that it's possible to work back and see what the official race distance was:

Lenzerheide UCI results PDF file


https://chronorace.blob.core.windows.net/webresources/20210904_dh/lenz_xco_me_analysis.pdf



Snowshoe UCI results PDF File


https://chronorace.blob.core.windows.net/webresources/20210918_dh/snow2_xco_me_analysis.pdf



From the official race results (in mph here for consistency)
Lenzerheide Victor Koretsky 1 hour 18 minutes 23 seconds, *average speed 13.65mph Race Distance 17.83 Miles*

Snowshoe Christopher Blevins 1 hour 15 minutes 14 seconds, *average speed 13.62mph Race Distance 17.08 Miles*

Here's a selection of Lenzerheide 2021 race distances from Strava using a variety of bike computers.










There's quite a bit of variation in distance for the Lenzerheide course still, not all the GPS bike computers recording the same despite all the riders having ridden the same closed race course on the same day at the same time, but they're all much shorter than the official 17.83 mile distance too. That 16.78 miles from Ondrej Cink's Garmin Edge 830 might not be exact but seems like it's probably more in line with the actual race distance than the official race distance.


----------



## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

chomxxo said:


> Later in the article she says about the off-season, "I'm on my bike every day..."
> 
> First thing, it's easy to see without reading the article that she lifts, Evie looks like a track star. Reading the article she says she does that twice a week. So there's your full training week.
> 
> Secondly, it sounds like she does what her coach tells her to do and doesn't look much at the numbers, but somebody is looking at them.


Very interesting article! Evie seems like she has a good balance between being obsessive and being carefree with her training. It seems like she has figured out a training system that works for her and is primarily based off how she is feeling. It is obviously seeming to work for her.

I interpreted that the 3-4 "training" sessions per week as harder or specific bike sessions. I'm guessing she's working out everyday during training blocks but doesn't consider recovery days "training". This approach works for me too! I like to be able to focus hard on the hard days and basically do whatever on the easy days.


----------



## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

It's certainly a different approach and an interesting article, I agree. The typical approach would be to lift weights in the offseason, then lay off of that during the season. Is that done in place or in addition to intervals for her explosiveness?

Her body type is very muscular, and for sure with watts at a premium for women but their size being relatively small, that could be a big advantage. Worth considering myself, although I'd imagine if a guy like Chris Blevins was all bowed up at 6'1", 200lbs, he'd be left at the bottom of the hill.



xcskier66 said:


> Very interesting article! Evie seems like she has a good balance between being obsessive and being carefree with her training. It seems like she has figured out a training system that works for her and is primarily based off how she is feeling. It is obviously seeming to work for her.
> 
> I interpreted that the 3-4 "training" sessions per week as harder or specific bike sessions. I'm guessing she's working out everyday during training blocks but doesn't consider recovery days "training". This approach works for me too! I like to be able to focus hard on the hard days and basically do whatever on the easy days.


----------



## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

So I'm wondering about the decreased time these World Cup XCO events last as compared to the early days of World Cup racing. As nicely detailed by WR304 above, current races are finished off in about 1hr 15min or so. That's hardly more time than a cyclocross race and less time than our local MTB series had for Cat 2 and an hour less than what the Cat 1 folks rode. Back in the 1990's, World Cup events would hardly ever be finished in less than 2 hours, some pushing 3 hours. Examples:

Cadel Evans won the 1998 Grundig Mountain Bike World Cup Cross Country, Plymouth, UK in 2hr 19min
Ostergaard won the 1995 Grundig Mountain Bike World Cup Cross Country, Budapest, Hungary in 2hr 43min.
Brentjens won the 1996 Atlanta Olympics in 2hr 17min.

I can guess at reasons for why races became shorter, but I wonder what the official policy is regarding the length of races and if there was a particular reason given for effectively halving the race time.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Ptor said:


> So I'm wondering about the decreased time these World Cup XCO events last as compared to the early days of World Cup racing. As nicely detailed by WR304 above, current races are finished off in about 1hr 15min or so. That's hardly more time than a cyclocross race and less time than our local MTB series had for Cat 2 and an hour less than what the Cat 1 folks rode. Back in the 1990's, World Cup events would hardly ever be finished in less than 2 hours, some pushing 3 hours. Examples:
> 
> Cadel Evans won the 1998 Grundig Mountain Bike World Cup Cross Country, Plymouth, UK in 2hr 19min
> Ostergaard won the 1995 Grundig Mountain Bike World Cup Cross Country, Budapest, Hungary in 2hr 43min.
> ...


I'm guessing it's for the TV/Livestreaming audience. Today's generation doesn't want to watch anything over 2 hours for sure. Plus the shorter the race the tighter the competition which keeps things exciting.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I thought there was a lot of discussion a few years back about making it more “spectator friendly” which led to shortening of races.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Shorter laps, and shorter races = TV/ spectator friendly. 
Worth looking out for the old Grundig World Cup races on You Tube; there is a channel on there with them. Lenzerheide is almost unrecognisable.
The long races are now part of the Marathon series - with races 3-4 hours long; and TV/ streaming coverage is a bit 'hit or miss'.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Personally I think they could tack two more laps(men and women's) on with the current courses and it would be interesting seeing some slightly different tactics coming out.

four more laps would be pushing it for the lazy viewers


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I had all the same ideas about why races are shorter now, but was after insight as to the “official reason” for why the change was made. I found via a google search that according to UCI rule 4.2.001 that a XCO course for a “class 1 event” should be as close as possible to 1hr 20 min to 1hr 40 min. It certainly seems that most of the recent World Cup races could stand to have an extra lap. The rule also states that XCM races should be from 60 to 160 km. 160 km seems legit for something labeled “marathon, but 60 km...not so much.


----------



## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Ptor said:


> I had all the same ideas about why races are shorter now, but was after insight as to the "official reason" for why the change was made. I found via a google search that according to UCI rule 4.2.001 that a XCO course for a "class 1 event" should be as close as possible to 1hr 20 min to 1hr 40 min. It certainly seems that most of the recent World Cup races could stand to have an extra lap. The rule also states that XCM races should be from 60 to 160 km. 160 km seems legit for something labeled "marathon, but 60 km...not so much.


So, going back a ways, in the 90's XC racing was the thing, and it was big with sponsors from outside cycling, network TV coverage etc. Honestly, the coverage was terrible with maybe 2 or 3 cameras, long laps, and after-the-event broadcasts that were often narrated in the past-tense by someone that didn't know much about bikes.

Then racing fragmented into DH, marathon, etc. and everyone apparently got bored with XC racing and it started the long, slow decline. Lance Armstrong showed up, and everyone decided road was the way. By the late 2000's it seemed like XC was dying. Anyway, throughout all that time, people were scrambling trying to figure out how to make it more exciting to watch, so they tried the short-track (which kind of stuck), and went to these shorter races with lots of short laps so people could see more of what was going on. As a spectator sport, that helped, but I think what has really helped is cheap cameras to cover all the course, and nearly free internet broadcasting so we can really watch the races develop all the way around the course (thanks Redbull!). Now add in NICA, and XC seems like it might have still have a future.


----------



## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

mtballday said:


> So, going back a ways, in the 90's XC racing was the thing, and it was big with sponsors from outside cycling, network TV coverage etc. Honestly, the coverage was terrible with maybe 2 or 3 cameras, long laps, and after-the-event broadcasts that were often narrated in the past-tense by someone that didn't know much about bikes.
> 
> Then racing fragmented into DH, marathon, etc. and everyone apparently got bored with XC racing and it started the long, slow decline. Lance Armstrong showed up, and everyone decided road was the way. By the late 2000's it seemed like XC was dying. Anyway, throughout all that time, people were scrambling trying to figure out how to make it more exciting to watch, so they tried the short-track (which kind of stuck), and went to these shorter races with lots of short laps so people could see more of what was going on. As a spectator sport, that helped, but I think what has really helped is cheap cameras to cover all the course, and nearly free internet broadcasting so we can really watch the races develop all the way around the course (thanks Redbull!). Now add in NICA, and XC seems like it might have still have a future.


Sort of to your point, I eagerly watch RedBull's coverage of XCC, XCO, and downhill (though starting to have reservations about downhill--so many bad crashes), men's and women's. But I can't get myself to watch or follow enduro racing. The coverage just isn't there. You see a couple clips of someone railing a turn, and all that ends up mattering is the summary at the end. Maybe it's gotten better--I haven't even tried watching for two years probably.

What would be really cool, though, would be good coverage of a point-to-point or big circuit XCO race, or even an enduro race, along the lines of coverage of a road race. With the proper course, where there's a lot of singletrack within view of a fire road where motos could ride and film--it must have been done, I just haven't seen it. One of the unfortunate things about the short XCO circuits is that the riders pretty much memorize every rock and root, and there ends up being mostly one line that everybody rides. On a longer course there would be more room for technical spontaneity and line choice.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> What would be really cool, though, would be good coverage of a point-to-point or big circuit XCO race, or even an enduro race, along the lines of coverage of a road race. With the proper course, where there's a lot of singletrack within view of a fire road where motos could ride and film--it must have been done, I just haven't seen it.


They do it with eBikes filming at the Cape Epic.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

paramount3 said:


> Sort of to your point, I eagerly watch RedBull's coverage of XCC, XCO, and downhill (though starting to have reservations about downhill--so many bad crashes), men's and women's. But I can't get myself to watch or follow enduro racing. The coverage just isn't there. You see a couple clips of someone railing a turn, and all that ends up mattering is the summary at the end. Maybe it's gotten better--I haven't even tried watching for two years probably.


As a long time fan of rallying, the coverage of Enduro (which is more or less rallying for bikes) is how that was covered until fairly recently. Because of the wide area of stages used, it's hard/expensive to film live. So we get a preview show, and an end of event round up. They have said they're working on it for the future, but it may take time, probably depending on the finances


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## dcb (Sep 19, 2005)

Stonerider said:


> Since many of the top females seemed to be burned out at the end of the year, could overtraining be the issue? In this article, How I train: Evie Richards, Evie said she only trains on the bike 3 or 4 days per week. Is this just during her off-season? But she did seem much fresher than others at the end of the season.


Thanks for posting, that's an interesting article. In one of the weight training pics she's doing a split stance RDL which I'd assume she's doing to make it more cycling specific. I also wouldn't be surprised if her grip width on barbell exercises is the same width as her handlebars.

I would be surprised if she's training really hard in the gym two days a week in season. These lifts are probably geared towards strength maintenance, balance and quality of movement.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

For Enduro look at jack Moir's channel


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Olympic women's XCO 4th place rider Blanka Kata Vas finishes in the same position in the Elite women's World Road race - and as an U23 rider. Sina Frei finished in the same group in 15th.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> As a long time fan of rallying, the coverage of Enduro (which is more or less rallying for bikes) is how that was covered until fairly recently. Because of the wide area of stages used, it's hard/expensive to film live. So we get a preview show, and an end of event round up. They have said they're working on it for the future, but it may take time, probably depending on the finances


Maybe drones could eventually get us there.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

chomxxo said:


> I don't know why so many people flatted. Sometimes the character of the terrain lends itself to punctures; I've had as many on a particular Texas trail full of smooth pebbles as some jagged desert trail with cactuses.


A lot of it has to do with the geology of the Snowshoe. Lots of Shale & Slate in that area. It tends to have very sharp edges because if the way it naturally cleaves. Especially Slate as it is much harder.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> The course had nothing to do with it. Blevins just has really good form relative to his competition right now. For a variety of reasons he has gas in tank when others don't.


He rode the perfect "Stalking Tiger" race. Stayed in contact with the sharp end not wasting energy and then pounced when the time was right.
Tactics isn't just for the road. LOL
Even if Nino didn't flat I don't think he could have taken Blevins at the finish line.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

FJSnoozer said:


> He wouldn’t understand because he avoids every race on our calendar that has rocks and only shows up to flat sand and cow pasture courses.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You know the real chom?


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I think it's time for y'all to chill out a bit.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

/CLOSED PENDING MODERATION.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Argue all you want but leave the personal attacks out please.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

All I can say is I’m stoked for a venue I don’t need a passport to go to! Fingers crossed I make it out to Mont Sainte Anne!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

This season was by far the most I've enjoyed watching XCC and XCO racing. Every race had some kind of drama and excitement to it.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Tomorrow is marathon worlds, big names on the start line and tough course! Will be interesting!


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

carlostruco said:


> This season was by far the most I've enjoyed watching XCC and XCO racing. Every race had some kind of drama and excitement to it.


It was a good one. Remembering back to all the years Nino just road away from everyone virtually every race, now that was kind of boring. I still wish they'd put the World Champs at the end of the world cup season. End world cup in august, give everyone a few weeks off, then have one big week and call it a season. But it's all the same in the end I guess.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Skarhead said:


> Tomorrow is marathon worlds, big names on the start line and tough course! Will be interesting!


I'm really looking forward to this one. I kind of think the longer races are more "true" to how I started racing. My first race was almost 30 miles in one giant loop. It was great as a racer, kind of lame as a watcher I'll admit. But you do have more time to work yourself up and pace from not feeling great, to coming on strong. Based on Cape Epic, I can't imagine Nino is going to lose. But many quality guys going for it. Even our own Keegan Swenson giving it a go.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nino wont have it all his way at the Cape Epic. His form looks decent but lets see how he gets on this weekend..
The only real competition at Cape Epic will CFR Alan Hatherly and Simon Andreassen

Nino isn't racing Cape Epic as far as I can tell.








Elite men's field at 2021 Absa Cape Epic takes shape


On paper, the October Absa Cape Epic has the elements to produce one of the most memorable editions in the race’s 18-year history. Not only do the simple facts of the Covid-enforced postponement make the 2021 race unique. The rescheduled dates, 17 to 24 October, should ensure cooler conditions an...




forum.bikehub.co.za


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Chris Blevins is down to ride the Charm City Cross this weekend.....though he has a bad grid position.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> Nino wont have it all his way at the Cape Epic. His form looks decent but lets see how he gets on this weekend..
> The only real competition at Cape Epic will CFR Alan Hatherly and Simon Andreassen
> 
> Nino isn't racing Cape Epic as far as I can tell.
> ...


Hmm, I just assumed Nino and Lars would do it again. But no mention of them. Not sure where I thought I read that they were in this year.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Anybody found any live stream or at least live standings from XCM?


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> Anybody found any live stream or at least live standings from XCM?


UCI MTB MARATHON WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS - XCM starts 12:45 CEST


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Doesn't work


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's also on Eurosport/GCN.........


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Exmuhle said:


> It's also on Eurosport/GCN.........


Is it now? I just watch road race on 1 and motor on 2🤷


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Ah, it will be Eurosport player....


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nino isn’t within 5min of the leader Seewald with 8.4km to go


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Mona Mittenwaller won the ladies on a trek super caliper.
Maya consonants from Poland 2nd
Spanish lady 3rd. I forget her name . Never heard of her before today


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

The video was awful, no? I tuned in at the end mainly, and aside from a moto following the two leaders, a saw zero race footage. A helicopter would show the city, and that’s it. Man I’m spoiled by Red Bull xc coverage. I thought it might be more like cape epic.

anyhoo, all Scott guys not finishing is interesting. It must have been really hard. Everyone looked wiped out.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Nice finish for Keegan Swenson.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Skarhead said:


> UCI MTB MARATHON WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS - XCM starts 12:45 CEST


That video link doesn’t work in the UK as it appears to be geoblocked.

This youtube link should work as it plays here:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I’ve managed 10 minutes of that video so far.

It’s fairly terrible coverage. So far it’s mostly Mona Mittenwaller riding up a dirt road solo way ahead of the field with someone on a motocross bike wobbling alongside in 1st gear revving the engine whilst filming with a helmet mounted Gopro camera…


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

WR304 said:


> That video link doesn’t work in the UK as it appears to be geoblocked.
> 
> This youtube link should work as it plays here:


This video looks good. I was watching the gcn feed. Thanks for posting that.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

This is a good subject for a picture caption competition. 😂


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

“You know you’re truly an XC Pro when your friends have to ditch the ebikes and go full moto in order to keep up.”


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Look at the elapsed time on this picture from later in the video. 4 hours 42 minutes of having a motocross bike right next to you blowing out fumes at low speed whilst you’re trying to concentrate is going to be enough to make anyone take up Zwift!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

One more of Maja Włoszczowska in 2nd place doing about 5mph up a steep climb. Look at the bottom of the picture and that’s the front mudguard of the following motocross bike showing just how close it is behind at this point.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I’m not sure if they actually had filming for the entire race as there’s no mid race footage in there. With that youtube video fast forwards to about 1 hour 10 minutes into it and from then on it has some point of view follow cam footage descending towards the end of the men’s race.

That was the best bit I thought.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> The video was awful, no? I tuned in at the end mainly, and aside from a moto following the two leaders, a saw zero race footage. A helicopter would show the city, and that’s it. Man I’m spoiled by Red Bull xc coverage. I thought it might be more like cape epic.
> 
> anyhoo, all Scott guys not finishing is interesting. It must have been really hard. Everyone looked wiped out.


It's the bike, their performances have declined with the one exception being Schurter's World Championship ride. I still would not be surprised to see a Race or SL get released with 100mm travel.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

A caption for the screenshots above inspired by the UK petrol shortages:









Fuel supplies: Mortar tanker tailed by drivers looking for petrol


Driver Johnny Anderson says about 20 vehicles followed him to a building site in Northamptonshire.



www.bbc.co.uk





“Is this the way to the nearest fuel station? My dirt bike is running low.”


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

There was a 2 hr video that was available on YouTube when I VPN'd in from Australia, with Italian commentators speaking in English. It appeared to be an official UCI production, with coverage of the previous day's ceremonies and some pre-race interviews. I can't find it when I'm not on the VPN. Pretty good coverage of first the women's and then the men's race. The motos would have driven me mad if I had been one of the race leaders. Why not eBikes? In any case, we saw Maia finish a stellar career with class, and we have now seen the future (Mona Mitterwallner). I am not familiar with any of the men's top place finishers, except I think Keegan Swenson was around 10th.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Anybody have a link to results? Seems like it would be easy enough to track down online...but I cannot find any.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Mtbdata.com has them I think. Rebecca McConnell got 10th, Keller 6th.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

MessagefromTate said:


> It's the bike, their performances have declined with the one exception being Schurter's World Championship ride. I still would not be surprised to see a Race or SL get released with 100mm travel.


Lars broke his chain, Frischi Jr pay the price for the early solo attack, Nino stomach problems mid race. Its not the bike and their training was for the xco season, the marathon course was very tough, Andreas Seewald the winner yesterday is a XC marathon specialist and this season he is in top shape.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Skarhead said:


> Lars broke his chain, Frischi Jr pay the price for the early solo attack, Nino stomach problems mid race. Its not the bike and their training was for the xco season, the marathon course was very tough, Andreas Seewald the winner yesterday is a XC marathon specialist and this season he is in top shape.


You have your opinion and I have mine about the fortunes of the team, you must have bought a Scott since you are so defensive. Enjoy your bike.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

MessagefromTate said:


> You have your opinion and I have mine about the fortunes of the team, you must have bought a Scott since you are so defensive. Enjoy your bike.


 Did you ride the new Spark? If not your opinion about the bike is pointless.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Skarhead said:


> Did you ride the new Spark? If not your opinion about the bike is pointless.


No I didn't as I'm not interested in 120mm travel bike. I bought something else instead (100mm travel).


----------



## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

Meanwhile Keegan Swenson pulls off 7th on a 88 mile course with ~1500 feet of climbing (from Strava and super impressive 6 hour finish), but couldn't break the top 40 in xco or get to the Olympics. I guess it's because he's on the new Santa Cruz Blur instead of the Pivot Mach 4sl.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Ksanman said:


> Meanwhile Keegan Swenson pulls off 7th on a 88 mile course with ~1500 feet of climbing (from Strava and super impressive 6 hour finish), but couldn't break the top 40 in xco or get to the Olympics. I guess it's because he's on the new Santa Cruz Blur instead of the Pivot Mach 4sl.


That's 15,000 feet of climbing for the men's course, about 10,000 for the women's. That's a tough day in the saddle. Pretty warm day also, I believe. Swenson has been training for distance since missing the Olympic selection. Another interesting note for this race: Ashleigh Molman-Passio finished 12th in the women's race. I thought she was exclusively a road rider.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

15,000 ft vert. He won Leadville in 6:11:26, which is 12,000 feet vert but 100 miles at altitude of 12,000 ft. He’s a marathoner.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Ksanman said:


> Meanwhile Keegan Swenson pulls off 7th on a 88 mile course with ~1500 feet of climbing (from Strava and super impressive 6 hour finish), but couldn't break the top 40 in xco or get to the Olympics. I guess it's because he's on the new Santa Cruz Blur instead of the Pivot Mach 4sl.




Keegan is leaning towards a distance specialist at this point. His entire Pandemic training has had tons of efforts of this length.

Leadville- Win
White rim - FKT
Everesting
Tahoe trail - win
BWR win
Etc etc


Sure there is ton of overlap in XCO and XCM, especially in amateurs, but at the point end of pro…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Ksanman said:


> I guess it's because he's on the new Santa Cruz Blur instead of the Pivot Mach 4sl.


Wrong thread!



FJSnoozer said:


> Keegan is leaning towards a distance specialist at this point. His entire Pandemic training has had tons of efforts of this length.
> 
> Leadville- Win
> White rim - FKT
> ...


He definitely talks about training like a marathoner. That said, he was definitely the strongest at nationals too. Presumably marathon is less dependent on starting position, although I haven’t watched, nor am I privy to, the worlds course.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

bikeranzin said:


> Wrong thread!
> 
> 
> 
> He definitely talks about training like a marathoner. That said, he was definitely the strongest at nationals too. Presumably marathon is less dependent on starting position, although I haven’t watched, nor am I privy to, the worlds course.


I think I read that Swenson was starting at the back of the XCM field. I'm sure it cost him some seconds overall, but maybe not enough to change his overall place in the race (he missed sixth place by about 90 seconds). Another marathon stat gor Keegan Swenson: he had the Everesting record for a short time last year. Regarding the Olympic selection--yes, Keegan Swenson is a legitimate contender, but I think Christopher Blevins has proven his abilities in XCC and XCO subsequent to the Olympics. Regarding XCM vs XCO: if you make the analogy to running, once you're at around a distance of 5K to 10K, the body type and physiological requirements are pretty much the same as you go longer in distance. 5K and 10K champions can also be marathon champions (notably, Kenenisa Bekele). The 5K world record is under 13 minutes, and the marathon record is just over 2 hours. Now, the XCM race for the men was over 6 hours long. I think at this point, there could be other factors that contribute to peak performance, such as ability to absorb water and nutrients, riding technique (to maximize efficiency, and especially to not lose efficiency as fatigue takes hold), etc. But I suspect that many of the top XCO racers could also excel at XCM--it's just a matter of preference and priorities--and probably money and sponsorship.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Skarhead said:


> Andreas Seewald the winner yesterday is a XC marathon specialist and this season he is in top shape.


Euro champ too.


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## Ksanman (Feb 15, 2016)

bikeranzin said:


> Wrong thread!


Not the wrong thread. Right above my post people were arguing over Scott Srams performance during a marathon race in an Olympic year. I think Keegan Swenson is a great example. He did not do well in XCO because he was training for marathon, and his results show that. The bike has nothing to do with that. I think Keegan even ran 120mm for some of his races (not verified, just heard it on a tr podcast). 

People throw a lot of shade at Scott, but Nino is still ranked #2 in points on mtbdata.com, and was in the top 10 in the majority of the races he did. He had one perfect season and everyone expects him to repeat that forever. People were mad he was winning back then, now they are mad he is not.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Ksanman said:


> Not the wrong thread. Right above my post people were arguing over Scott Srams performance during a marathon race in an Olympic year. I think Keegan Swenson is a great example. He did not do well in XCO because he was training for marathon, and his results show that. The bike has nothing to do with that. I think Keegan even ran 120mm for some of his races (not verified, just heard it on a tr podcast).
> 
> People throw a lot of shade at Scott, but Nino is still ranked #2 in points on mtbdata.com, and was in the top 10 in the majority of the races he did. He had one perfect season and everyone expects him to repeat that forever. People were mad he was winning back then, now they are mad he is not.


I believe it was a joke. In the other equipment thread, we'd all decided the spark, and the trek super cal, were duds, then people won everything on them, we decided they were the best...as we all know, its all about the bike, and nothing to do with the rider (aka we all talk silly stuff as this is a forum and if it's not all about the bike then we got nothing to actually talk about as we arn't privy to each and every riders personal form)


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Ksanman said:


> Not the wrong thread. Right above my post people were arguing over Scott Srams performance during a marathon race in an Olympic year. I think Keegan Swenson is a great example. He did not do well in XCO because he was training for marathon, and his results show that. The bike has nothing to do with that. I think Keegan even ran 120mm for some of his races (not verified, just heard it on a tr podcast).
> 
> People throw a lot of shade at Scott, but Nino is still ranked #2 in points on mtbdata.com, and was in the top 10 in the majority of the races he did. He had one perfect season and everyone expects him to repeat that forever. People were mad he was winning back then, now they are mad he is not.


I didn't expect Nino to keep winning. Age is the great equalizer. Considering how much fanfare Scott put into that bike launch I'd say performance wise the team landed with a thud. That's my observation, and truthfully I was probably paying more attention since a certain individual on these forums went on about how it was the ultimate bike/perfectbike/ready for the future bike.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

paramount3 said:


> There was a 2 hr video that was available on YouTube when I VPN'd in from Australia, with Italian commentators speaking in English. It appeared to be an official UCI production, with coverage of the previous day's ceremonies and some pre-race interviews. I can't find it when I'm not on the VPN. Pretty good coverage of first the women's and then the men's race. The motos would have driven me mad if I had been one of the race leaders. Why not eBikes? In any case, we saw Maia finish a stellar career with class, and we have now seen the future (Mona Mitterwallner). I am not familiar with any of the men's top place finishers, except I think Keegan Swenson was around 10th.


I watched it on YouTube with no VPN in Aus

I thought Drones would have been a better option than the Dirt bikes


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I watched some of this today. I wonder if the racers are annoyed with the motorbikes half wheeling them in order to get footage? Seems like it would be super annoying. Although on the other hand maybe because they are professionals they accept the annoying camera bike knowing that it is broadcasting them and in a way helping pay their bills. But I was totally waiting for one of them to turn around and yell at the camera like Cavendish style!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Can’t imagine why ebikes wouldn’t have have been better than moto. They worked fine for Cape Epic and this was no Cape Epic by any stretch.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm imagining that someone organised that side of it and just didn't think...they've been using motos for that sort of stuff for years...why change now.
And/Or they thought they would be moving up and down the field, not really sure how an ebike would go for that, moto would be a lot faster...whether it happened or not, thats another story.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Can’t imagine why ebikes wouldn’t have have been better than moto. They worked fine for Cape Epic and this was no Cape Epic by any stretch.


But the Cape Epic doesn't have any 6 hour stages with 5,000m of climbing either.

Maybe they couldn't get enough riders fit enough, technical enough and enough bikes & batteries for decent coverage.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Chapeau to Mona, this caps off pretty much the perfect season. I'm super excited to see what she can do in the future.
6/6 U23 WC wins
U23 World Champion
XCM World Champion


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

Found full results from the XCM WC

Mens: DS live (datasport.com) DNF for Nino
Womens DS live (datasport.com)


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

MattMay said:


> Can’t imagine why ebikes wouldn’t have have been better than moto. They worked fine for Cape Epic and this was no Cape Epic by any stretch.


I'd think an E-Moto would be most preferable. No pedaling required & much longer range.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Andreas Seewald's winning ride is on Strava.

He averaged 298 watts for 6 hours for an average speed of 12.2mph over 73.69 miles with 16,457ft of climbing:









UCI MTB MARATHON WORLDCHAMPIONSHIP 🥇Sieg 👉Worldchampion Weltmeister Campione del mondo... - Andreas S.'s 118.5 km mountain bike ride


Andreas S. rode 118.5 km on Oct 2, 2021.




www.strava.com


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I just started measuring my own Watts about a week ago and I can't even imagine being that strong for 6 hours straight.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> I just started measuring my own Watts about a week ago and I can't even imagine being that strong for 6 hours straight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


What's that old maxim?

Q: "How do you eat an elephant?"

A: "One bite at a time."

Yeah, those numbers are going to be out of reach for 99.99 percent of people. But you'll be surprised how strong you get with even a single day of hard interval training per week and a couple more rides on top of that.

Here's the nastiest ride I've ever seen:









Kristoff averages insane 345 watts for 5 hours 26 minutes to win Gent-Wevelgem - Canadian Cycling Magazine


Race winner sustains average speed of 46.27 km/h over grueling day in the saddle and then produced a world class sprint that peaked at 1432 w




cyclingmagazine.ca


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I was wrong:



> Runner-up Florian Vermeersch's Strava data (with power) from Paris-Roubaix.Weightted avg power 370 W and total work 7,743 kJ (!). Power curve 81.5 kg. In sprint, Vermeersch produced 993 W for 18 seconds (peak 1,476 W). #ParisRoubaix Paris- Roubaix 2021 - Florian Vermeersch's 263.6 km bike ride pic.twitter.com/fbl8Q948DS
> — ammattipyöräily (@ammattipyoraily) October 4, 2021




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Pros are incredibly strong, it is nice that they are sharing so we can see what is possible, even if it will never be possible for me.

Another example from Simon Andreassens danish xcm championship win recently: 









Are the xcm world championships normally that long? 6 hours is a lot, and a bit further down in the results they were racing almost 7 hours...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Skier78 said:


> Pros are incredibly strong, it is nice that they are sharing so we can see what is possible, even if it will never be possible for me.
> 
> Another example from Simon Andreassens danish xcm championship win recently:
> View attachment 1951209
> ...


How much of that can be obtained by training/ diet and how much of that is genetic?
I've only been training for about eight days with FJSnoozer's assistance and the one ride I did the improvements from just a few days training were notable already.
He has me pushing with more intensity & longer on the trainer then I could ever push on a bicycle and stay on two wheels.
The result was that I was doing my little 2-5 minute climbs that usually have me pretty beat and they felt like 30% easier than usual and when I got to the top I had no need to recover but instead was ready to charge. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> How much of that can be obtained by training/ diet and how much of that is genetic?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


I would say 95% hard work and maybe 5% genetic, but it takes many years of training with a volume around 800-1200 hours/year. As you get older the body will not adapt/improve as much anymore, so for me who started training late in life the progress is quite slow, but I am happy with just having progress at all from year to year.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Skier78 said:


> I would say 95% hard work and maybe 5% genetic, but it takes many years of training with a volume around 800-1200 hours/year. As you get older the body will not adapt/improve as much anymore, so for me who started training late in life the progress is quite slow, but I am happy with just having progress at all from year to year.


I think I can get on board with this. It seems to be important whether or not you were an athlete (ideally endurance) through your teenage/puberty years. It’s probably the sweet spot for your body being primed to adapt and recover. Genetics may select for the Pidcocks or MVDPs, but far more important is probably the environmental conditions a kid was born into and grew up with that led and supported them through bike racing.

As for masters who are beginners to training, the first part of fitness comes rapid and is awesome. You’ll probably find your second year to be far less exhilarating than your first. If, say you gain 50-100w on your FTP the first year, you’ll probably be fighting for 10-20w the next. The gains will be much harder won, but they’ll be satisfying.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Skier78 said:


> I would say 95% hard work and maybe 5% genetic, but it takes many years of training with a volume around 800-1200 hours/year. As you get older the body will not adapt/improve as much anymore, so for me who started training late in life the progress is quite slow, but I am happy with just having progress at all from year to year.


While it’s nice to think that it’s 95% hard work and 5% genetics, that is simply not the case. LMN and anyone else who has experience around pros can certainly tell you this. Not only do those with better genetics progress more quickly, their ceiling is considerably higher. All of us can get quite fast with enough hours over the years of consistent training; that’s not in dispute. But years of consistent, quality training with above average genetics still can’t compare to pro genetics.

no one questions whether or not they could’ve been an NFL running back or an NBA power forward if they had just started practicing and training early enough, or had the right coach… Because those physical attributes are easy to see compared with average people. It’s hard to look at someone with superior endurance genetics and recognize them without looking at their performances. But they are just as different from those of average genetics as the power sports pros are.

This is not to discourage anyone, I finished second to last in my first beginner race many years ago and went on to win many state, regional, and other championships in cross country at the highest amateur level, and went on to get a pro license. But when I go up against someone who went from category five on the road the category one in the span of 10 months, and had a pro Road contract within two years of starting to ride, I’m just not the same type of animal. And that’s OK.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Skier78 said:


> I would say 95% hard work and maybe 5% genetic.


I wish I agreed with you on this but that hasn't been my experience.

Those with right genes respond to training. Within a couple of months starting regular training they catch and pass the "Donkeys" who have been working at it for years. To become world class it might take a couple of years, but even then there are people who get there really quickly.

But the right genes are actually really common. The right genes combined with the personality, environment and support system are very rare.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think the average male probably has a genetic ceiling threshold of 4watts/kg. This is actually pretty darn fast and would blow away 95% of the users on the trails. But it is still light years away from that the 6+watts/kg that the best elite guys have.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

LMN said:


> I wish I agreed with you on this but that hasn't been my experience.
> 
> Those with right genes respond to training. Within a couple of months starting regular training they catch and pass the "Donkeys" who have been working at it for years. To become world class it might take a couple of years, but even then there are people who get there really quickly.
> 
> But the right genes are actually really common. The right genes combined with the personality, environment and support system are very rare.


I am far from an expert, I am just looking at my own numbers and the ones I race against (we are quite open with our numbers). I just don't like the sentiment that "I don't have the right genetics" because that becomes an excuse to not train structured and hard. Of course 99.9% of us will never become a MVDP or Pidcock, but for racing on the national level you can do quite well with much lower numbers than what the pros are showing, and even at 43 years of age I am still seeing quite good improvements (after about 5 years of more structured training) from year to year.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> I think the average male probably has a genetic ceiling threshold of 4watts/kg. This is actually pretty darn fast and would blow away 95% of the users on the trails. But it is still light years away from that the 6+watts/kg that the best elite guys have.


I raced this past weekend in a local event that consisted of five time trials of local trails, it was possible to ride as easy as you like between the segments, just like an Enduro, only rolling terrain and not downhill. My current FTP is somewhere in the realm of 4.3 W per kilogram; interestingly, I am just as fast (if not faster) in local terrain as I was a few years back when I was flirting with 5 W per kilogram, as it’s not very climb heavy here. My FTP is the same, I’m just heavier.

in any case, I know these trails like the back of my hand, and on four of the five segments I came in second place to a 21–year old who started racing two years ago. He races UCI U23 and is a real up and coming talent. I was losing between eight seconds and a minute on every trail, and these trails are only 20 to 25 minutes long. He’s also heavier than I am. That’s the difference between talent and hard work with average genetics.

I was normalizing at 4.3-4.5 watts/kg on each segment, and at 4 w/kg for the entire 3 hours of riding (includes warmup, and spinning lightly between segments, only 1.75 hrs was actually timed and going hard).


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Skier78 said:


> I am far from an expert, I am just looking at my own numbers and the ones I race against (we are quite open with our numbers). I just don't like the sentiment that "I don't have the right genetics" because that becomes an excuse to not train structured and hard. Of course 99.9% of us will never become a MVDP or Pidcock, but for racing on the national level you can do quite well with much lower numbers than what the pros are showing, and even at 43 years of age I am still seeing quite good improvements (after about 5 years of more structured training) from year to year.


Absolutely true, and that’s what I was saying in my post. You can do very well with somewhat average genetics and lots of hard work, until you get to the elite level on a national stage.

That’s not the same thing as saying that the pros power output are 95% hard work and 5% genetics.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Skier78 said:


> I am far from an expert, I am just looking at my own numbers and the ones I race against (we are quite open with our numbers). I just don't like the sentiment that "I don't have the right genetics" because that becomes an excuse to not train structured and hard. Of course 99.9% of us will never become a MVDP or Pidcock, but for racing on the national level you can do quite well with much lower numbers than what the pros are showing, and even at 43 years of age I am still seeing quite good improvements (after about 5 years of more structured training) from year to year.


I agree with what you are saying. 

Our ability to respond to training is impressive and among the people that we race it is how we train that is the difference maker. But the difference between a good amateur and a Pro is staggering, they aren't just sort of faster than us they are way faster than us.

I would consider myself genetically very average. But my training is pretty darn solid, I do about 80% of training the WC racers I coach do. This puts me near the pointy end of the masters field here BC. Yet, there is a 16yr old girl who only trains 10hrs a week (including riding her bike back and forth to school) who absolutely crushes me (and every other master racer in BC). 

Genetics matter.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Very few people in the world will ever be able to pedal 300w for 4+ hours. Very few people will ever push 400w for an hour. So I wouldn't even worry about that, lol.

FTP is always relative to watts/kg, good point raised there. And the taller you are, the more you have in terms of potential watts, but more kg to push around.

The Coggan Chart attempted to define this, but it tends to be biased a little high on the sprint side. This link has more up-to-date, real-world data from competitive cyclists that I've found very relevant.






How does your cycling power output compare?







www.cyclinganalytics.com





Scroll past the FTP stuff (most people test this inconsistently anyway) and take a look at the 5",1',5',and 20' test charts.

Here is the chart for men. I've found that if you're at least in the 70th/80th percentile across the board of watts/kg, you're in the Cat 1 podium hunt:


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Well I've never been an endurance athlete and I turn 50 tomorrow and began training just last week.
I'd consider my endurance genetics and lung capacity (thanks Pasadena TX petroleum plant air) well below average if my school age athletic performance is to be used as an indicator. However diet and overall fitness level would be well above average, compared to an average active adult. 
I'm eager to measure my gains over the rest of the year and will report back in the WC XC thread as clearly it's pretty much the same thing. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

How are we quantifying what is good genetics is? I would assume it would have to be quantified via lactate test, and maybe V02 max test. I usually hear it said in a general manner, but I'm not sure what's actually meant by that.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Not to derail any further, but could someone point me to a good spot to read up and do some actual training? I ride alone 99% of the time and my training consists of deciding to push hard on my XC or road loops on random days or several days in a row to blow up my legs before I know it's going to rain. In Minnesota the leaves are starting to drop so the xc trails are getting slippery and I think I've left enough elbow/knee skin on the ground this summer already. Hopefully snow riding soon but that's a different beast.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Buy a high quality trainer bike (I bought a Keiser M3i & am more than pleased with it) and look up some training plans. You can get on a pay plan like Zwift, follow Utube videos, follow the built in plans, use an App, etc.

Wish I would have bought a trainer years ago. The thing is that I can make myself really hurt on the trainer in a way I can not consistently do safely on an actual bike. It's so easy when the weather turns or your work schedule is going against you because you can still get in a great workout in 45 minutes pretty much anytime.

I look forward to riding mine!


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

LMN said:


> I think the average male probably has a genetic ceiling threshold of 4watts/kg. This is actually pretty darn fast and would blow away 95% of the users on the trails. But it is still light years away from that the 6+watts/kg that the best elite guys have.


After many years of racing and watching the progression of myself and many others, I (sadly) agree with this. 60 mins at 4w/kg is actually pretty rare, and not nearly world class. Most people simply don't have a world class motor, never will, and never could. The only way to know is to train and race a lot for several years and see how quickly you progress and how high the ceiling rises, although probably 2 years is long enough to get a pretty good indication for most people. I agree with someone's comment that training through the teenage years seems to be beneficial, but I have seen a few people bumb around till later and turn out to be very good.

As a side note, the people I've seen who are really fast are also really dedicated. There is often a lot of 'ah, shucks' talk on the surface, but when you get to know them there is in practice a _lot_ of commitment involved.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It's one thing to produce XYZ watts; the other thing that a lot of people overlook is the other part of the watts/kg equation: mass.

When I was in grad school, my wife and I lived simply and had plenty of time to make food. So, we bought bulk ingredients (beans, rice, flour, etc) and ate very minimal processed/pre-made food. Got my weight down to the lowest it's been in a long, long time: 63kg. Let's say that my max power for, oh, 10min is 365w. That's 5.79w/kg. Now, fast forward to having a 1 year old, and I am a portly 145lbs, or 66kg for the metric users. To go uphill at the same speed as my former 138.6lb/63kg self, I now have to produce 382w, which is a bit difficult, as it turns out.

Now, I get it: you have a life outside of cycling. You don't want to look like Skeletor. But, ****, you're already a weirdo who rides bikes for fun, and people already think you look like you just escaped from a Russian gulag, so what's 4 more pounds?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

So the 4 watts/ kilogram is for 1 hour straight? Both sexes? What do professionals produce typically for a 1 hour stretch?


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Suns_PSD said:


> So the 4 watts/ kilogram is for 1 hour straight? Both sexes? What do professionals produce typically for a 1 hour stretch?


For world tour road cyclists I would say over 5.5w/kg in ftp, but it is a big difference between _a domestique and a leader. _ The highest I have seen is Contador, he had a 20min max of 458w @61.6kg so around 7w/kg estimated 1 hour power at his peak.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Skier78 said:


> For world tour road cyclists I would say over 5.5w/kg in ftp, but it is a big difference between _a domestique and a leader. _ The highest I have seen is Contador, he had a 20min max of 458w @61.6kg so around 7w/kg estimated 1 hour power at his peak.


That certainly wasn’t “natural”.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> So the 4 watts/ kilogram is for 1 hour straight? Both sexes? What do professionals produce typically for a 1 hour stretch?


I really don't have a great feel for what a women of average genetic potential can do. Over the years I have coached at least a dozen women racing world cups, but I have never actually coached a non-elite women. The WC women are somewhere around that 5 watts/kg for an hour, with the best being around 5.5.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> I really don't have a great feel for what a women of average genetic potential can do. Over the years I have coached at least a dozen women racing world cups, but I have never actually coached a non-elite women. The WC women are somewhere around that 5 watts/kg for an hour, with the best being around 5.5.


My wife is 4.8 w/kg here at 7k feet. I'm around 4.4 w/kg at the same vert. What I actually find interesting about the equation is that there are a lot of climbs in Park City that I can do faster than her. I don't think it's only efficiency, because it's a similar effect with the other Pro women I've been racing near. Now, when I'm doing intervals in my head, I try to predict who'll be faster based on the grade, as the lower the grade, the more my absolute threshold (330w) outpaces hers (275w).

If you were to ask me to repeat an effort, she would decimate me though. It's not just the FTP that separates the wheat from the chaff, but also fatigue resistance. I actually think you were the one that shared that study about fatigue resistance between GC riders and domestiques.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Well I've never been an endurance athlete and I turn 50 tomorrow and began training just last week.
> I'd consider my endurance genetics and lung capacity (thanks Pasadena TX petroleum plant air) well below average if my school age athletic performance is to be used as an indicator. However diet and overall fitness level would be well above average, compared to an average active adult.
> I'm eager to measure my gains over the rest of the year and will report back in the WC XC thread as clearly it's pretty much the same thing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


The same Pasadena Refinery purchased by Chevron recently?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Brad said:


> The same Pasadena Refinery purchased by Chevron recently?


There were like 20+ plants within a few miles. Light jogging/ deep breathe would make my lungs burn where I grew up. 


Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Cerpss said:


> Not to derail any further, but could someone point me to a good spot to read up and do some actual training? I ride alone 99% of the time and my training consists of deciding to push hard on my XC or road loops on random days or several days in a row to blow up my legs before I know it's going to rain. In Minnesota the leaves are starting to drop so the xc trails are getting slippery and I think I've left enough elbow/knee skin on the ground this summer already. Hopefully snow riding soon but that's a different beast.











TrainerRoad


A dedicated forum for cyclists to discuss what they're doing to get faster, and learn from like-minded athletes and coaches.




www.trainerroad.com


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Chris Blevins has called time on his season, so won't do the US CX World Cups; however, the Trek women all seem to be entered for them - and there a few other XC-ers entered as well. 
Sina Frei & Laura Stigger are doing Cape Epic. I should think they'll all be glad when it's over - it's been a long season.

Nino seems to be racing Claudio Calori for charity, but going by his instagram post, it's snowing.....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Nino seems to be racing Claudio Calori for charity, but going by his instagram post, it's snowing.....


Not racing until Sat and they're on eBikes so it'll be easy.
Wonder how many batteries they'll get through?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze has signed with Alpecin-Fenix for another 3 years.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

He’s improved since joining them so it must be a good environment for him


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

It was great to see Jolanda Neff back on the CX bike this weekend after a two year absence. She snagged the win on Friday after a 45th starting position and came up to take 4th place on Sunday in the first CX World Cup of the season after a back row start. Pretty good as she said she hadn't ridden her CX bike in 2 years.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, a very impressive performance; only beaten by riders who have all won Elite World Cups, and two are World Champions. On the right course, and with a decent grid position, she can win an Elite World Cup - and possibly even a World title. She finished 6th in the Bogense Worlds in 2019, on a pan flat course that wouldn't have suited her. Will be interesting to see how she gets on at Fayettville on Wednesday - as it may influence whether she goes for the Worlds after a rest.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I have to wonder if Kate Courtney did more racing (CX, Road, etc) if she’d have better luck with XCO racing. 

It’s one thing to have the technical skills and fitness, it’s another thing entirely to have a routine that you use more than a half dozen weekends a year. Also, race craft.

Now, I get it. Not everyone is Jolanda Neff or PFP. And, some people don’t need it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Has she ever expressed a desire to race in CX? The more riders doing multi disciplines is always good, but not everyone can do it. 

There was an article on MvdP a few months ago about his training; anyway, a few comments were that CX & XCO are similar, so if you're good at one, you should be good at another. Hmm - wrong. Somebody did point out why this was wrong. In fact, at Elite world level, not many are competitive in both, even less can win in both.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> I have to wonder if Kate Courtney did more racing (CX, Road, etc) if she’d have better luck with XCO racing.
> 
> It’s one thing to have the technical skills and fitness, it’s another thing entirely to have a routine that you use more than a half dozen weekends a year. Also, race craft.
> 
> ...


That's a good point. Outside of the World Cups the past 3 years, Kate rarely races. I know personally the more races I do, the more it helps with race day nerves.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

Exmuhle said:


> Has she ever expressed a desire to race in CX? The more riders doing multi disciplines is always good, but not everyone can do it.
> 
> There was an article on MvdP a few months ago about his training; anyway, a few comments were that CX & XCO are similar, so if you're good at one, you should be good at another. Hmm - wrong. Somebody did point out why this was wrong. In fact, at Elite world level, not many are competitive in both, even less can win in both.


CX and XC racing are obviously not the same but that doesn't make them that different. The races are about an hour, require big aerobic engines, good bike handling skills. The physical requirements (power, vo2max, sprint ability, etc...) are nearly identical between the two cycling disciplines. CX maybe requires a bit more flat power than XC but some CX courses are pretty darn hilly and very similar to XC races on the world cup. power at FTP is probably the #1 predictor of success in both sports. 

I think athlete success mostly comes down to motivation. A elite CX could do well in XC if they really wanted to (e.g. targeted training) and vice versa. 

I can understand why Kate C. doesn't do cyclocross. it's a lot of travelling and time in weird hotels in europe. I'd stay in sunny CA during the winter myself...especially if I was one of the highest paid XC athlete around.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

After Pauline Ferrand Prevot announced that she was taking a break from racing to recover she's now also split from her long time boyfriend Julien Absalon at the end of September 2021:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/good-monthbad-month-carbon-failures-electronic-everything-and-racing-miracles.html



She's been riding for the Absolut Absalon team this year, which is Julien Absalon's team. Despite saying she's staying with that team for 2022 I wouldn't be surprised to discover if she ends riding for a different team next year too?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well thats not a surprise. They didn’t seem as close this year as in previous years. Don’t mix business with pleasure they say…


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Athletes are very unique in their requirements in terms of training, recovering, peaking, plateauing and rebuilding. I think we all recognize that.

So, building on my previous statement, I wonder how many race days someone like Jolanda Neff gets each year. She's raced 3x in the last week alone.

Some of that is based on personal physiology. But I wonder if she just likes racing her bike a lot more than other people. Or, if there is a financial incentive for that. Or some combination of multiple factors.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Contractual obligations stipulate the number of races
Performance clauses dictate bonus incentives 
For Jolanda there may be other personal factors like finding form or satisfying smaller sponsors needs


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad said:


> Contractual obligations stipulate the number of races
> Performance clauses dictate bonus incentives
> For Jolanda there may be other personal factors like finding form or satisfying smaller sponsors needs


Jolanda also dates Luca Shaw who lives in NC. So the sponsor pays for your trip to North America and you probably get some bonuses for showing up and racing as well. It's a win/win for her.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Jolanda also dates Luca Shaw who lives in NC. So the sponsor pays for your trip to North America and you probably get some bonuses for showing up and racing as well. It's a win/win for her.


A win/win/win...
From her Instagram...
"So I just enjoyed myself sliding around corners and playing in the mud"

Sounds like she's having fun


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Jolanda like riding bikes and racing. It's in her blood.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

WR304 said:


> Ideally a recorded ride with a calibrated front wheel speed sensor would be closest to the actual distance.


Except for Koretzky when he happens to have a flat front tire


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Junior women's XCO MTB World Champion, Line Burquier with a Top 10 finish in the Elite CX World Cup in Zonhoven, Belgium; impressive!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

arnea said:


> Except for Koretzky when he happens to have a flat front tire


When wheelieing a chunk of the course a front wheel sensor wouldn't help with distance accuracy then! Riding the deflated front tyre on the rim would affect the distance from the sensor too, with the front wheel change removing the sensor altogether at that point.

The reason for saying to have the speed sensor on the front wheel, rather than the rear wheel, is that the front wheel on a mountain bike is normally be going to be rotating all the time so should record closest to the actual distance. The rear wheel is the one that is more likely to be locked up under hard braking, potentially affecting the speed and distance readings if there's frequent enough rear locking during the ride.


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