# Bicycle lane useless



## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I tried the new bicycle lanes they put in here today. I rode against traffic first time, and found that most drivers just pull into the bike lane as they approach their destination. I followed a few miles in my car to see how common this was, and about 1/2 the pickups and SUV's I saw were driving with their tires on the line or into the bike lane. I'm gonna ride my sofftail on the sidewalk, and yield to pedestrians as needed. The bike lane seems to be just another right turn lane around here.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Why are you riding against traffic? Ride with traffic. Just stay alert. When they are making a right they will go into your lane to do so. You must now pass them. If you are going to make a left, you have to leave the bike lane, go into the car lane, and make your left. Share the road, be wise. Ride defensively.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

Don't ride against traffic and things will go better. Not saying it will br problem free, but going against traffic in a bike lane is not the best thing to do!


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Run against ride with.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I see why some could be tempted d to go against traffic, at least you can see if a car door is going to open in you path (cars park in our bike lanes here)

I am pretty new to riding in traffic and so far would rather take a lane or down the middle on busy streets, when I try to ride the shoulder or bike lane I get to many close calls with car doors, cars pulling out, pedestrians not using crosswalks.



William P said:


> I tried the new bicycle lanes they put in here today. I rode against traffic first time, and found that most drivers just pull into the bike lane as they approach their destination. I followed a few miles in my car to see how common this was, and about 1/2 the pickups and SUV's I saw were driving with their tires on the line or into the bike lane. I'm gonna ride my sofftail on the sidewalk, and yield to pedestrians as needed. The bike lane seems to be just another right turn lane around here.


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## Trek Willy (Apr 29, 2008)

What's the reasoning for riding with traffic opposed to riding against it?


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

There are reasons to ride with traffic. People coming out of side streets will not look in your direction for one. I'm aware of this and take it into account. If someone is pulling out I'll stop for them, or pass behind them. The other side of the street was under construction, pouring curbs, painting bike lanes so riding" with" wasn't an option yet. Car doors aren't an issue this is 45mph- 4 lane with narrow median strip. No on street parking.The blocks are long with few driveways. Not like typical urban. I'll have a very hard time riding with traffic having seen how many cars and trucks just drift in and out of the bike lane like it doesn't exist. Sidewalks not too bad an option, few pedestrians, or driveways,and my XC bike smooths out the expansion joint pretty good. I guess it's easier to pretend the problem doesn't exist if you can't see it.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Riding on the sidewalk is probably the lesser of two evils here. Riding the wrong way in a bike lane (i.e. on the road) further encourages drivers to see cyclists as irresponsible louts, rather than as vehicles with equal rights to the road.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Around here they don't view other people in cars that way.


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## overtorqued_nut (Oct 24, 2005)

Only salmon swim upstream. Don't be a salmon.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Unless you want to spawn with a fish


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I feel so un-POLITICALLY CORRECT. I've been riding this road on the sidewalk with no problems. Basically a bunch of 1/4 mile sprints, then a cross street etc, etc. They put in a bike lane, and I gave it a try. IT SUCKS. I don't see that it's going to make one bit of difference which way you're going if you get hit by a car going 50mph. Except you won't see it coming
On another stretch of this road I see roadies riding with traffic all the time in the bike lane. It runs along a canal, and on the other side of the canal guess what, there's a paved jogging path, and a 2 lane side street with almost no traffic,that goes every where the main road does.
But just like salmon they're too stupid to do anything but follow their HERDING INSTINCT even if it kills them.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

One more thing. The reason I do my street riding on an off road bike is so I will have options of where, and how to ride.Unlike a salmon I intend to use them all.


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## centerridgerider (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok here are a few of my comments... please don't view these as hostile or an attack against you, they are just comments... 
1. Reasons to ride with traffic
a. Its the LAW!
b. when you ride in the steet or in a bike lane you are viewed ( and should like to be viewed) as a car. So as a car, you don't want to be riding the wrong way down the street. 
c. Every other biker in the world does it so when you don't you'll be making a very dangerous situation for yourself in that the cars won't know what the F you're doing so you'll be unpredictable to them. 
.d. Corrisponding with c. when you run accross a cyclist riding the correct direction he or she won't know what the F to do creating another dangerous situation. 

2. Reasons not to ride on the side walk 
a. in some places Its against the LAW
b. you'll be pissing off pedestrians even if you're doing everything in your power not to 
c. you'll be making a bad name for cyclists (per the first two reasons) 
d. Cars won't be looking for you fastly approaching on the sidewalk and they will pull out and you will run into the side of the car and probably go over the roof getting some nasty injuries. 
3. Consider yourself lucky to have bike lanes. For approx 50% of my 27 mile round trip urban commute I am fighting traffic with no lane of my own. 
Mind you this isn't really an issue. I've had no problems riding in traffic (yet) and though it is nerve racking, it beats $4.00 a gallon gas!


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Lemmings vs Salmon*

Reasons to ride on the sidewalk
a. It's legal, I have the right to do so as long as I give warning to pedestrians, and yield to them.
b. Cars coming out of side streets have a stop sign. they will be going slow, or stopped
I operate on the assumtion that they don't see me. I rely on my seeing them.
c. by riding on the sidewalk, I won't interfere with other cyclists who choose to use the bike lane. I may even be able to render asisstance to them in the event a car wipes out a 50 bike peloton (it happened in Miami).
d. drivers here have no concept that bikes have any right to any part of the road.
e. I don't have a problem "pissing off" pedestrians. My warning consists of the word BICYCLE given from 50feet away. Due to walled communities, and setback strip malls pedestrians are generally away from the sidewalk. mostlt sitting at buss stops.
f. as far as what other cyclists think. I'll listen, but I won't be ruled by it. It's called freedom.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

William P said:


> I feel so un-POLITICALLY CORRECT. I've been riding this road on the sidewalk with no problems. Basically a bunch of 1/4 mile sprints, then a cross street etc, etc. They put in a bike lane, and I gave it a try. IT SUCKS. I don't see that it's going to make one bit of difference which way you're going if you get hit by a car going 50mph. Except you won't see it coming
> On another stretch of this road I see roadies riding with traffic all the time in the bike lane. It runs along a canal, and on the other side of the canal guess what, there's a paved jogging path, and a 2 lane side street with almost no traffic,that goes every where the main road does.
> But just like salmon they're too stupid to do anything but follow their HERDING INSTINCT even if it kills them.


Doesn't it just suck when you don't get the sympathy that you are so clearly _entitled _to?


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## cazloco (Apr 6, 2005)

William P said:


> f. as far as what other cyclists think. I'll listen, but I won't be ruled by it. It's called freedom.


You came to a bike forum, made your gripe about Florida's bike lanes, every comment thinks you're nuts for riding on the sidewalks or the wrong direction in a bikelane and then you claim that you'll listen to what other cyclist think but don't care because it's all about you. It's all about you.

Thanks for sharing.

Caz


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

As I said I was riding against traffic because there wasn't a bike lane going my direction. The right lane going my way was under construction There is nothing illegal or "wrong" about riding on the sidewalk. It's a very viable option here.

In an urban setting I ride in the street with traffic. Too many peds, and speeds are about equal. Out in the country I'll ride bike lanes with traffic. The cars are far enough apart to see a cyclist ahead and respond.
The concept of freedom always is about the individual. If you're one of those people who can't make decisions for yourself, that's your right, and you're welcome to it.


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## z rocks (Jul 5, 2007)

thank you


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## Squash (Jul 20, 2003)

*The problem here is two fold....*



William P said:


> I tried the new bicycle lanes they put in here today. I rode against traffic first time, and found that most drivers just pull into the bike lane as they approach their destination. I followed a few miles in my car to see how common this was, and about 1/2 the pickups and SUV's I saw were driving with their tires on the line or into the bike lane. I'm gonna ride my sofftail on the sidewalk, and yield to pedestrians as needed. The bike lane seems to be just another right turn lane around here.


One, the bicycle lanes are NEW!!!! That means they are new to the drivers on that road as well. Give it time, they'll get used to them. Some blockheads of course will never get it, that's where number two comes in.

Second, enforcement! Give it time the bicycle lanes are new. To help with this the local authorities, i.e. the cops, have to have time to enforce the rules pertaining to the bicycle lanes. This is probably the fastest and best way to "get the word out" about the "new" bike lanes. You might even try to be part of the solution and suggest a news story about them to the a local news station?

The bottom line is, the bike lanes are NEW! You said it yourself, they're so new that one lane was still under contruction! You had to ride against traffic to use the one bike lane that was open! And I won't even get into that argument. Give people time to get used to them. It's a change and they're not used to it yet. Then if things don't improve file a complaint with the local PD about the improper use motorists are making of the bike lanes. If enough folks complain they'll stick PC out there to keep an eye on things for a couple of days. He'll write a few citations and it'll sink in.

Good Dirt


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Whistle while you ride*

Ride on the sidewalk on busy streets.And put a LOUD WHISTLE on a string around your neck so you can give a nice LOUD BLAST when you have to.Most drivers don't have any respect for bikers.


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## supercorsa (Jan 18, 2004)

Trek Willy said:


> What's the reasoning for riding with traffic opposed to riding against it?


so you don't force ME out into traffic when i encounter you while i'm riding the correct direction.

very dangerous situation, and one i don't appreciate at all.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

Just though this might help


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*I can use it*

I can use it to pick up pieces of Roadie Kill in the bike lane.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Good use for bike lane.*

There's a Florida law that says motorists must give bicycles 3' clearance when they pass.That's in addition to the width of the bike lane. I've never seen it happen yet. But if I ride on the sidewalk(legally) like I've done for 2 years without incident, the bike lane will provide me with the 3' I'm entitled to.
Sorry guys I have no intention of turning my back on 50mph bumper to bumper traffic passing 1 foot away at best.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Then keep riding on the sidewalk if it's legal and safer. Keep out of the bike lane if it bugs you so much, and stop riding them against traffic.

Lots of commuters think that bike lanes are a bad idea. But most of them don't boast about breaking traffic laws at the same time- it doesn't win you any sympathy from other cyclists.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Don't worry. You're going to have the bike lane all to yourself.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

the fact that he's riding on the road in florida kind of excuses him from the typical laws elsewhere imo. i had a job that involved riding urban/suburban roads all day, 5+ days a week, and they wanted me to go to florida. i quit. too many really old people and (assuming) illegal immigrants behind the wheels of vehicles. i like being alive and in one piece.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Some of these guys think I want their sympathy. They're very wrong.
I have three pieces of advice for them regarding bike lanes. 
1. If you find a bike lane you're not familliar with, look down it the wrong way and see what's going on in it. Then consider you're options. Maybe bunny hopping a curb every 1/2 mile, or slowing down for the little old lady at the buss stop might start looking good.
2. If you're riding in a bike lane next to a row of parked cars, decide how fast you want to be going when you eat a car door. All the bike lane does is give people room to open their doors without looking. That's all the control you have in that situation.
3. Don't ride in a bike lane just because you're on a bike, that kind of groupthink BS can get you killed.

And about the 50 riders in Miami taken out by one car. They were riding with traffic. and there was a bike lane, but the locals were all using it for on street parking.(That's level of bike lane enforcement here.) Some guy in an SUV backed out of his driveway. Because of the parked cars he couldn't see them, they couldn't see him, and he ends up with a 50 bike peloton in the right rear of his vehicle. See #2 above.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Illegal immigrants*

Illegal immigrants are the only safe drivers around here. They don't want to get deported.


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## colinr (Feb 11, 2008)

sean salach said:


> the fact that he's riding on the road in florida kind of excuses him from the typical laws elsewhere imo.


Yup. Suburban Florida roads are HELL to ride on, I lived there for a while (Orlando) and it's practically the least bike-friendly environment possible. 55 mph speed limit, 2 lanes each way, and the only way to get from housing development 1 to housing development 2. I drove out to the country with my bike on the roof rather than ride through that warzone to go for rides.

If I saw you riding in a place with a halfway-decent bike infrastructure (like Boston) coming at me in the bike lane I'd give you the finger, but Florida suburban riding is anarchy, and I respect you for even trying it.


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## Doggity (Mar 27, 2007)

Yep, tits on a boarhog, awright....LOL! We've got this bike lane on Cerrillos Road, in Santa Fe. Now, Cerrillos Rd is THE main drag of the most congested, willy nilly part of SF. I routinely see drunks drive along it, and soccer moms veer into it, while yakking on their [email protected]$&* cell phones in their huge, honkin FAT ASSED SUV's.. I have YET to see any cyclist crazy enough to RIDE in it. Their life expectancy would be about 30 seconds. Maybe. LOL!...what a waste of money. It'd been a better use to actually make some of the sidewalks and gutters rideable. Santa Fe is THE most cycling HOSTILE town I've ever ridden in, though I'm sure there are even worse.


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## centerridgerider (Jul 21, 2005)

Well I guess opinions are like A$$holes.... so I'll go ahead and give mine....

I love bike lanes. 
I wish there were more bike lanes
I try to taylor my commute to stay on roads with bike lanes (I manage less than 50%)
I find a bike lane a nice alternative to riding in the street... or sidewalk... or grass.... or gutter... or shoulder...
I personally am not afraid to ride in a bike lane or in the road for that matter. 
Maybe its not a lack of fear but a lack of intelligence...

The only reason I feel the need to state my opinion on this matter is because I don't want people to blindly rule out riding in the bike lane.

I think everyone has his or her own comfort level as far as riding goes and people need to find out what that comfort level is for every stetch of road ridden.

I also just ordered this book:
Bicycling and the Law

Hopefully it will help me with what is an isn't legal.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Comfort vs. Survival*

The 50 guys who all packed it into the side of the same car were riding legally, and in their comfort zone. Go ahead and read your book on the law. Then look at what's really going on around you,( around here it doesn't match) because the law won't keep a pickup trucks mirror from taking your head off.


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## compNeo (Jan 7, 2008)

Over here in Salt Lake you can ride on the sidewalks (except in downtown) but we have a "safe and prudent" law concerning speed on the sidewalk. If there is a pedestrian on the sidewalk then you MUST slow down to pedestrian speeds. Me, I love to fly down the road. If there is no bike lane, it is within my right as a vehicle to take the whole lane. We also have a "3 foot rule". 
I had a friend get hit on the sidewalk and the cops cited her because there was a bike lane on the route she was taking.


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## Streamline.by.design (Apr 27, 2007)

William P said:


> Another time I was riding towards traffic in a bike lane (not provided on both sides of road) and I noticed cars were edging into the lane as they approached. I started riding with my water bottle in my hand, and making eye contact, and I started getting my 3' clearance as they passed.


Some might think that this would be causing an unsafe environment for both the driver and cyclist. Yeah lets distract the already slack driver from his driving by spraying him. So he can possibly swerve into me. Not to mention possibly pissing off a couple of guys and getting the crap kicked out of you.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

Around here in CT, we have no bike lanes, although it's not usually a problem. I do live in a city, although some parts are much more rural. On the rural roads (all one lane per direction, some are too narrow to even have a yellow line, as two cars can barely pass), I just take the lane in my direction, or that half of the road. When a car comes up behind me, I move over to let them past as long as it is safe to do so, otherwise, they wait. Fortunately, they don't usually mind, as unless I'm going uphill, I'm usually doing 15-20+, and when they're only doing 25-30, they don't get pissed. In the more urban areas, I just stay to the right (sort of in the shoulder) when there is enough space and no parked cars, otherwise I take the right-most lane. Riding on the sidewalk is frowned upon (and I don't, although I'm not sure it's illegal), although many of the immigrants do, often on their too-small 20" wheeled third or fourth-hand BMX bikes (standing of course, as the bikes are too small to sit on).


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Moron this*

I guess I should just get run over by a car so as not to offend anyone. Who said anything about spraying. If they didn't "MTF over" they were getting a full water bottle through the windshield. No Sir let's not disturb a distracted driver over something as insignificant as a bicyclist's life.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Hit by what?*

Got hit by what a pedestrian?
Almost nobody walks around here, everything is too spread out. I do slow for peds, but there are almost none around. Here you're not required to use a bike lane. Cops very often don't know the law, and just make up whatever they want.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Must be nice!*

Around here if you're driving a car and you aren't going 5mph over the speed limit people behind you start getting pissed. I've actually had people complain to me about bicycles in road lanes, and they were shocked to learn that a bicycle is vehicle and has a right to be there. They had been blowing their horn at them and giving them the finger as they passed.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

You gotta go to New York City in Mid Manhattan if you really want to see some commuting.Those folks make Hans Rey look like he's riding a tricycle.And they're all riding old Huffys!! :eekster: :skep: ?


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*As a matter of fact*

As a matter of fact that was on a 4 lane divided highway, and there was only one car coming towards me. There was a whole empty lane to the left, but instead of moving over to give me 3' clearance they started drifting into the bike lane. There are actually many drivers here who are totally unaware that a bicycle has any right to any part of the road.
I believe they were were intentionally trying to get me "out of Their way". Yes even in a bike lane.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*My brother's going*

My brother is going there after giving up on urban (ghetto) commuting in Miami. I guess they have to ride POS bikes so they won't get stolen. I wonder what the riding style is?
Do they follow all the traffic rules, or is it more "freestyle".I'd like to be able to follow the rules, and ride unmolested in the bike lane, or share the road like the guy from CT, but it ain't happenin' here. Since you say they ride like Hans Rey I'd guess it's the latter.


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## Mr.Bob (Jan 6, 2004)

William P said:


> I guess I should just get run over by a car...


This gets my vote .


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Good thing I live in Florida*

We don't count votes here.


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## compNeo (Jan 7, 2008)

William P said:


> Got hit by what a pedestrian?


She got hit by a car coming off a side street or driveway. Either way she was jacked up for several months. But she did learn her lesson.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Under the law here cars are supposed to stop before crossing a sidewalk, and yield to any pedestrians (this includes bicyclists). Here it's the cyclists choice to act as a vehicle or as a pedestrian. But usually you can't really depend on any of that, even from the police. On some level you have to look out for yourself. I make it my policy to pass BEHIND cars coming out of side streets. This is of course much easier to do from a sidewalk. But downtown sidewalks aren't a good choice, doorways open right into the sidewalk,and too many peds (I don't dodge back and forth around peds, I get in the street then). Downtown there's usually an alley, or side street one or two blocks away that works better for bicycles than the main street. Just because a cop writes a ticket doesn't make it so.


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## Hippienflipflops (Oct 18, 2006)

Dear William, 

Please stop being a douche. I ride my bike in LOS ANGELES! In a bike lane or on streets with no bike lane at all. Sack up or ride on the sidewalk. Not the wrong way in the bike lane. You are probably a retro-grouch and like 650b wheels. Bring on the flame.


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## Rockfish Dave (Dec 27, 2006)

Come on... Cut the guy some slack. 

I agree that: Yes, riding in the street with traffic is the "safest" option, however, this was not always the case. I started, though trial and error, by doing almost the same thing that Willam P is doing. It was a steep learning curve and it took a while to become comfortable with taking a lane, but since I have began riding my bicycle like I ride my motorcycle, I have had no where near the constant close calls that I used to have before.

I assume we are all here, on this forum, because a common interest: A love of cycling. Let's take a deep breath and show a little understanding, patience and compassion for a fellow cyclist. We may disagree with him, but there is no need for personal attacks. In fact by making personal attacks you may be making him resistive to some very good advice and in the end, do even more harm and disservice than if you had never posted a response.

Dave


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*I have 4 wheelsets*

Singletracks with Kenda Nevegals for trails
Rhynolites with Bonty Select inverts for urban
Crossrides with 2" slicks or 2.2" grooved slicks for beach cruising.
Cane Creek 700c for road.
Sorry no 650b , not retro enough for me. It's the latest thing you know.

I agree with the guy who rode in Central FL.
There was a race driver at Sebring, one of the European guys. Since he earned his living driving 200mph for hours on end year after year, we'll assume he was fully "Sacked Up", and that he had a pretty good skillset of some kind, and probably the best equipment too.
He made the mistake of thinking he was somewhere else and went for a bike ride.
A pickup truck mirror took his head off. He got "sacked up" for good.

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself in LALA land (don't want to dissapoint anyone). I've taken midnight rides during spring break before M.A.D.D.- I've had a drunk flip a Ford plumbing van behind me and wipe out a row of parked cars. Since it was night all I could do was watch where I was going, and wonder what all the #$&%^$! noise was about. Fortunately I was on the sidewalk going the WRONG WAY or I'd be "SACKED UP" too.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Rockfish Dave said:


> Come on... Cut the guy some slack.
> 
> I agree that: Yes, riding in the street with traffic is the "safest" option, however, this was not always the case. I started, though trial and error, by doing almost the same thing that Willam P is doing. It was a steep learning curve and it took a while to become comfortable with taking a lane, but since I have began riding my bicycle like I ride my motorcycle, I have had no where near the constant close calls that I used to have before.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave for that kind response. And to the OP-When you get negative responses on your threads,reject and don't intrenalize them. It sounds very classy to simply say to the offending person,"Negative comments are not accepted here. There is no place for them.Thank You very much". ...And then let it go at that. ---zarr


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## Hippienflipflops (Oct 18, 2006)

you may be right rockfish, however, he appears to be already resistant to sound advice. i am willing to bet he knew what responses would be here before posting. this is not the first time this topic has arisen. rules of the road are rules of the road. i would verbally attack a motorist for disobeying the law and endangering others, which is what he is doing, whether he thinks he is being "safer" or not. i suppose that he gets the joy of knowing when he is going to get creamed.

Case in point, last year in boulder, a cyclist was riding on highway 36, going with traffic, when all of the sudden, an oncoming car, (A CAR HE COULD SEE), veered across the road, hit him and killed him instantly. There are circumstances which occur which are tragic. Every time you get in a car you put yourself at risk, but surely the poster would not advocate driving in some fashion that is against THE LAW in order to be "safer" 

Thats all im saying, Willy knew the responses he would get about this.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Don't ruin my fun.*

Don't worry. I understand the "theory". We just buried a Motorcyclist friend about 3 months ago. He died on the same strech of road. Both vehicles were making left turns. But the car turned very wide for no reason.
Don't ruin my fun. I actually enjoy responding to the "FLAMING NINNYS" here.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I just want to see us all try to help each other constructively here on the forum. When I first joined, I posted some threads which contained some real positive thoughts and also I got some real negative comments that hurt my feelings real bad. Maybe I'm overly sensitive.Or maybe I'm just a guy trying to do good. Either way, I concluded that the best way was not to fight fire with fire. One other thing I want to point out to the OP- You may not agree with opinions that go against your way of doing things, but sometimes you might find out that person was right. Then it will be up to you to admit when you are wrong. Peace.---zarr


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Notice we're talking 1 ride 1 kill in central FL. The worst part is the place looks perfect for riding, good weather, long rolling hills, lakes in the valleys. My mother's retired up there. When she see's me bring my bike up she just gives me the latest body count.
I've been riding in FL off and on for 40 years. If that makes me "retro" then so be it.
If having every 3rd car that approaches come into the bike lane makes me a grouch, well it probably wouldn't improve your disposition much either. Like Sante Fe said It only took me about 30 seconds to figure out the bike lane wasn't the place to be. My policy is this don't ride where cars can hit you if at all possible.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Actually there was a reason for the wide turn. Just like Sante Fe said. "A lady talking on her cell phone in a fat assed SUV" turned in late taking up the whole intersection. According to police she turned 25' past where she was supposed to.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

His career as a motorcyclist in SoFla lasted about 1 year.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

Now that I've gotten that out of the way I'm glad you brought up motorcycles. I anticipate 2 things. One is that the Harley Dudes will use the bike lane to sneak to the front of the line at traffic lights (they do it where there isn't a bike lane). Two that at higher speeds it will become the Hyabusa Bypass (extra points for on one wheel).
I think if I wan't to pretend I'm riding a motorcycle I'll just put some playing cards in the spokes.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

I just went to the restaurant where that guys wife works. The owner is in the hospital, Fractured skull, broke all the bones in his face, broken shoulder and internal bleeding. He's expected to recover fully though. He got hit 4 blocks from where the first guy died on the same road. They all went out and bought Harleys together about a year and a half ago. 
If you come to SoFla and you see a bunch of old guys riding on the sidewalk,facing traffic,that's probably how they got to be old guys.


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## Yardstick (Jan 10, 2007)

Some of the reasons you give for riding on the sidewalk are exactly the same as I use. I was always taught that when anywhere near a road I should assume that people don't see me. I am effectively invisible.

We have similar 45mph, 4-lane + turn lane roads around here. Quite often there will be people going 55+ and/or drifting in and out of the bike lanes. I tried commuting the whopping 6 miles to my work for a while but stopped after a semi almost ran me over. I was in the bike lane, but so was the semi! Fook that. (side note: some lady was taken out by a semi here fairly recently -she was in the bike lane) I very rarely even ride a motorcycle on the street because of how people drive around here. Until they build a barrier between vehicle traffic and bike traffic I'll just keep putting along in my car (and even then I don't feel 'safe', just 'safer'). 

On the rare occasion that I actually take a bike near roads anymore, I don't just assume that I'm invisible, I assume they're actually out to get me.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Another Tragedy*

A cyclist was killed in Elsmere,Delaware today (5/13/08).Go to WWW.nbc10.com for details.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*Those are only SOME of them*

Of three MC riders at the restaurant, one's dead, one's in the hospital, and the other is in therapy because of the other two.
Looking out the window of the restaurant I saw a Ford van ignore the new "right turn only" sign, punch it into a gap in traffic,then hit the brakes when he saw the median and get flipped on his side by a Honda Accord. I could tell the guy in the van was ok, I could see him making the 6' climb to open the drivers door. He "Whack A Moled" himself a couple times with the door trying to get out. The Honda guy got "Air Bagged", was ok too. Just good clean fun if you're in a car. 
Now that people know about the median, to turn left they just go the wrong way into the left turn lane, make a quick U-turn into oncoming traffic, and proceed. This at a place where a cor could be coming out of the other side of the street, and someone making a legal lh turn at the same time.Add 1 bicycle, and you're DONE.
I also saw a roadie on the sidewalk in the middle of a 45mph turn. He was in the "standing fetal position" Slightly bent, hands on knees to get them to stop shaking, and head swinging slowly side to side like he can't believe he's still alive. I didn't see what happened. But from the rigid skinny tire bike he had, it was in the road.


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## William P (Jan 25, 2004)

*The second car*

I really have to laugh at the guy from Clifornia who's going to try to tell me how to ride SoFla. He lives in a place where drivers yield to pedestrians. When I was a teen we used to go by the airport and try to spot Californians. You could tell them because they'd step right out in front of traffic, and get the sh!t scared out of them when someone laid on the horn and kept coming. He's probably not qualified to walk across the street here.
I've made some wiseass remarks here, so I'm going to say the next one is literaly true. Around here you're lucky if the second car that runs over you stops.


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## mtbdee (Jan 31, 2005)

This thread reminds me of why I hated S. Florida so much. I vivdily remember riding to my job at the LBS in Boca Raton during my time there. I used to ride the sidewalks and hook up subdivisions to avoid riding on the 4 lane roads as much as possible. Creativity kept me safe. The few times I tried to road ride in the traditional sense were less than pleasant. When every road is reminiscent of a State Highway it makes for a very scary ride. You guys wouldn't go ride on Interstate 95 would you?

Not that it's all fun and games here in RI/SE Mass, but the far older road system does make it more enjoyable and reasonable either in the city or the burbs. And yes, I do ride in my lane/take a lane when needed. I follow the rules of the road, but I'll jump onto the side walk/shoulder if needed. 

Around here if you rode on the sidewalk facing traffic you'd get killed by someone turning into you. The area is dense and filled with small intersections and people wouldn't expect you to be riding there. It's a totally different environment than S Florida hence the different riding styles. Don't hate the OP for doing what needs to be done to keep himself safe.


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## Hippienflipflops (Oct 18, 2006)

wow. i stand corrected. if youre in s. florida feel free to hit up that sidewalk and stay out of the bike lane.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

I understand your reluctance to ride in traffic, I've had that discussion with one of my coworkers who also commutes via bike a few times. His approach is to route his ride so that he can always ride at the speed limit, that is he doesn't route on streets with a speed limit of more then 25 mph and he tries to keep up with traffic at all times. 

Personally I just take my bike lane, or my whole lane when the situation requires it. I've been hit twice and side swiped a few times, more damage to my bikes then to me, the worst I've ended up with is a broken thumb and some cracked ribs. 

In any case that is not why I decided to post, last night when I was riding home in the bike lane someone else was riding the wrong way down the bike lane and it put me in a very dangerous situation. I was on my road bike powering down a long fast hill (the most fun part of my ride normally) and here comes someone putting up the bike lane going really slow. Due to sand and garbage in the bike lane it was not wide enough for both of us, this forced me into the road way on a blind corner which drivers take at 50mph, that was very dangerous. If she had been going with the flow of traffic I could have at least tucked in behind her until it was safe to pass, instead I was forced to either come to a complete stop and step off the road or make an unsafe pass. 

I would rather someone on a bike ride on the sidewalk then the wrong direction in the bike lane. It makes an already dangerous situation worse for those of us who use the lanes correctly.


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/271557392


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## mtbdee (Jan 31, 2005)

Cracked Headtube said:


> http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/271557392


Classic..


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## PscyclePath (Aug 29, 2007)

Trek Willy said:


> What's the reasoning for riding with traffic opposed to riding against it?


Because it's the law. The exact same laws and traffic rules that apply to cars apply to bicyclists.

Riding against traffic puts you in positions where motorists aren't looking for you to be, and where they don't expect anyone to be. The usual result is a car-bike collision and a dead cyclist.

Ride on the right side of the road, never on the left, and never on the sidewalk outside residential neighborhoods. Obey all traffic signs and signals.


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## mumbles (Jul 22, 2006)

Many roads in houston they made the car lanes narrower so they could paint a stripe and call it a bike lane. The cars are all too close, its rare to see a bike so the cars stray into the bike lane. I see bikes on the sidewalk more than in the bike lane. Its much safer. When riding in traffic you need to ride with the traffic. When riding roads in subdivisions where there is not much traffic I prefer to ride where I can see cars coming and then I get out of the way.


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## dewthedru (Nov 8, 2004)

i have one more reason to ride with traffic. speed differential.

if traffic is coming toward you at 45 and you're riding at 15, your closing rate is 60mph. if you're riding with traffic, the closing rate is 1/2 that amount. that gives the driver twice as much time to react to you.


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## RidersofDslum (Jun 8, 2007)

I am with William P

Sidewalk riding is legal. In countries were bikes out number cars, people and bikes share sidewalks with out problems. You don't want to hit a pedestrian, it will hurt both parties. People in other countries are use to bikes and avoid them. They don't have that many official bike paths because the sidewalk is already used.

I also use every path available. I'll ride a sidewalk in town if there's a clear path. It's quicker sometimes. If it becomes to busy I'll merge back on the road (I look of course). I Don't fly by pedestrians, I warn them before I pass.

Also most bike paths are multi use, so your going to run into the same problem as you would on a sidewalk.


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## RidersofDslum (Jun 8, 2007)

I got more to say. For the record I don't drive and have been bike communting for about 3 years.

I live in Summit County, (breck, keystone, frisco, silverthorne, dillion). We have great bike paths, but they are not always the safest route, especially for road bikes. Serious roadies are very fast and they run into more problems on multi use bike paths than they do on streets. Many tourists are unaware of the dangers on the path. They will take up the entire path and are oblivious to approaching bikes, on bikes and walking. They have no idea that road bikes are fast.

Sometimes the road is obviously more dangerous than the path and the roadies will take it instead of the much safer path adjacent to the road. That's wrong too.

That's why it's always better to take the safest roate no matter what it is. As you get more experinced with bike communiting you learn this ****. It could be in his situation the illegal path is safer.


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