# Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion kit



## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

I have this in my PUSH-tuned 36. Best upgrade to my suspension since, well, since 11.6. Finally, a fork to match my shock. Great job PUSH !

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/push-acs-3-coil-spring-conversion-kit-first-look.html


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

Are you still on the Push company payroll?


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Renegade said:


> Are you still on the Push company payroll?


Never have been, never will be


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## cmrocks (Sep 30, 2013)

I just saw this today and emailed Suspension Werx in North Vancouver. I'm going to get one as soon as they're available! The website still says "coming soon"! My fork was push tuned last winter and it was a very big improvement. Looking forward to trying out the coil spring!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Looks great! Curious about how it stacks up against the new Ohlins coil 36.


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## chuckiebruster (Dec 5, 2016)

I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I know people come at the Push thing with a money no object stance...but $400 for a coil spring conversion is quite expensive. I'm really hoping that this prompts companies like Fox and Rockshox to think about coil spring options for their forks. The Elevensix seemed to convince bigger players to offer coil springs aimed at non-downhill disciplines, at a much more reasonable cost than push (less than half the price).


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

1500+ for a 36 coil with custom tune! if you go all push that sets you up for a $2k7 which is the price of a pretty nice carbon frame + shock! 

definitely a premium market and customer focused product!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

chuckiebruster said:


> I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.


Yeah, I mean, you're probably right...but taking an (MRSP) $900-1000 shock and adding a $400 coil spring to it, I would hope that it was comparable. Otherwise I'd just be inclined to sell off the Pike/36/whatever and spend the money on the Ohlins.


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## bbbbking (Nov 7, 2008)

for that price, I'll go for avalanche

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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Keep going Push, you are almost there for the 5000$ combo kit extravaganza.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

TXNavy said:


> I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.
> 
> Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?


 As good as you think the air spring is, the coil is that much better. And air performance will inevitably deteriorate with time. Their tune works complimentary to the coil spring, and the combo of spring and damper tune is the bees knees. The pink bike article says that it's not easy to revert back to air because of wear issues, but I doubt you'd want to.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Supposedly one already exists for the pike, £149.00

Rock Shox Pike Coil Conversion Kit - Coil Conversion Kits - TF Tuned


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

*Weight?*

What's the addditional weight penalty of this conversion?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension. 

While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Christopher Robin said:


> 200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension.
> 
> While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.


The fox carts have a hydraulic bottom-out system, however, very old 36s were not adjustable for this. There is some debate on Ridemonkey right now as to whether you really need the additional bottom-out protection over and above that already offered by the fox cartridge:



Udi said:


> I've already shared my thoughts on coil spring rates and bottom out resistance earlier in the thread. "Over-spring" could mean many things depending on which factors you considered when modeling an existing air sprung fork. I think you may be referring to the very old VAN36 there too, as the HBO was non-adjustable (from memory) on the inverted-RC2 equipped VAN36 (circa 2011-2013). The pre-invert dampers were heavily lacking in compression damping so it's not really a fair comparison.
> 
> The answer to your question is somewhat travel-dependent. Personally I'd rather jump up to the 170mm 36 if running out of travel was an issue (= no weight penalty from memory) rather than lug around a sealed air spring unit inside my coil spring. But, full disclosure: I ride a DH bike for stuff that needs 203mm of travel - I run a coil converted new 40 (standard spring for my weight per Fox guidelines), which I've tested with the HBO damper and non-HBO damper. I prefer the non-HBO and very rarely bottom it out (usually only on a botched big landing).
> 
> ...


If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say. There's the TFT kit for the pike that might work for the lyrik?

I have to say that running my RFX with the avalanche fork and avalanched RC4 feels extremely balanced. I know with a coil front it'd have even "moar" front traction, but damn if it doesn't already feel like a million bucks and doesn't leave me wanting more on DH. At the rear end of the bike there's still a significant difference between my tuned Monarch+ and the coil RC4, but I don't think quite so much on the front end, although again, I'm sure coil would be better. I've had some shitty coil forks though that my current lyrik+avy just blows away, every one of them in fact, except the avy-cart I had in the 888.


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

*Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit*



TXNavy said:


> I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.
> 
> Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?


By definition, if your air spring is perfect, the coil can't be any better (perfecter). It can only be just as good (or also perfect). 
That said, spend your hard earned money elsewhere

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

bbbbking said:


> for that price, I'll go for avalanche
> 
> 我從使用 Tapatalk 的 ONEPLUS A3003 發送


Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say.


I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!

When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs. :thumbsup:

Darren


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

the-one1 said:


> Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.


You are correct. They offer an open bath conversion kit. It is really good and is a huge upgrade to the fork, especially if you are outside the ideal weight range for the stock set up. It's about the same price as the push kit.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!
> 
> When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs. :thumbsup:
> 
> Darren


If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.

If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.

At any rate, we appreciate options and progression. Develop on!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.


You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.



> If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.


We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.

Darren


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.
> 
> We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.
> 
> Darren


Cool. We are sure you have done your homework, just trying to gain a better understanding. My initial thought is why not just use an anti-bottoming solution on the damper side. We see that in other cartridge options in both MX and MTB, while not seeing the implementation of pneumatic bump stops. Of course, this involves getting in to both sides of the fork.

To that end, does your valving approach change for the spring conversion? I suspect so...and I am guessing that a revalve would be more critical after the conversion?


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## slim2none (Jun 3, 2009)

Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.

The bike industry is so screwed up.


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

A_street said:


> this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.


That's a bit more direct way to get at the questions I was asking above. I suspect that valving for an air spring differs from valving for a coil spring to take advantage of each springs characteristics. Valving also is dependent on rider weight....Push uses different shim stacks for the 11.6 based off of rider weight.

In the case of an OEM fork cartridge, they are valved to work with the broadest range of customers, making performance "acceptable" out of the box. If the fork cartridges were more specific for weight or spring characteristics then less users would find them acceptable and they would get negative reviews. Same with spring weights, which is why an air spring makes sense for the masses.

With that in mind, it seems that just moving to a spring could cause issues on the damper side. If the damper is already not optimized for rider weight, and you complicate that by altering the spring characteristics, then a revalve would be in order. In MX, when you send your OEM suspenders off to get worked on, in most cases, both the springs and valving are changed. I'm okay with that. But, since (or more appropriately "if") that is the case, then a hydraulic bottom out solution on the damper side seems way more reasonable from a cost, weight, and complexity position, BECAUSE you will need to go in to the damper side anyways. Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

tdc_worm said:


> Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....


That and they don't off the revalve service for Pikes.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

slim2none said:


> Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.
> 
> The bike industry is so screwed up.


Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring. We are all sheep.

Anybody else remember when we complained about the $50 spring for the Judy? Seems like such a long time ago...


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Sounds somewhat similar to what DVO did with the diamond. The OTT is an adjustable coil spring in the air side. OTT gives you the supple initial travel and support while the air keeps it from bottoming out.


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## slim2none (Jun 3, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring.


 The industry as in "manufacturers and consumers" are screwed up. Happy?



Vespasianus said:


> Nope. We are all sheep.


Speak for yourself.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

TXNavy said:


> I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.
> 
> Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?


No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

txnavy said:


> also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. Can you go back to air?


:nono:neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

J: said:


> :nono:neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!


exactly. there's zero reason to go back


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

CUP-TON said:


> No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.


I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

TXNavy said:


> I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


There is a way but only using RS parts and it's not guaranteed.


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## Raptor-30 (May 24, 2017)

I would be interested in the push conversion kit. Unfortunatelly, it is not available for 180mm travel. Does anybody know if there is any alternative available from another manufacturer? I'm looking to get a more plush feeling out of my fox 36...


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## bedell99 (Jan 5, 2007)

So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year. 

Erik


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

bedell99 said:


> So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.
> 
> Erik


I think it will come at some point, 2019 lineup maybe, ohlins already has a 36 coil 29er, so others are looking for sure!


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## bigcrs (Oct 27, 2008)

bedell99 said:


> So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.
> 
> Erik


I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

bigcrs said:


> I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari


Agreed - discounted Yari + Push coil - cost of factory Fox 36 before the Push kit... that would interest me now


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter. 

Darren


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## bigcrs (Oct 27, 2008)

Defiantly unfortunate. Thanks for the clarification.

Fingers crossed that Super Alloy Racing pulls their finger out and makes their kit available.

SAR PSP Spring Tuning Kit for BoXXer, Lyrik, Pike and FOX 36 - EUROBIKE - 2017 Mountain Bike Components - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Darren,
Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

SyT said:


> Darren,
> Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?


^^^^^this. Although it appears that the new top cap/bump stop so serves as the upper spring seat. Pretty sure we know what the answer is going to be here.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

SyT said:


> Darren,
> Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?


This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.

Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.

Dampers generate force based on velocity and therefore control the suspensions ride characteristic.

Hydraulic bottoming devices are designed to provide a level of protection once you've already arrived at the end of travel, but don't help you from getting there.

Off-road MTB suspension requires a progressive spring in order to provide a balanced ride of small bump sensitivity and big hit control. Applications that don't provide this are a compromise.

Darren


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.
> 
> Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.
> 
> ...


Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.


I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?

Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.

To my point, not one of the brands you listed even offer a suspension fork that has a linear spring. 100% of off-road motorcycle suspension forks that utilize a coil spring, use a secondary air spring to create a progressive spring rate. Every KYB, every Showa, every WP, and every Ohlins.

Darren


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?
> 
> Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.
> 
> ...


Agreed, and not questioning your credentials. Also not passing judgment on the performance of the system.

The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.

Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.

At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.


No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.



> Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.


It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.



> At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.


Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.

Darren


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm taking this as a " No."


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Darren,
Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter.
> 
> Darren


Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?


That is correct. Friction is certainly a component, but more for us was eliminating the compressed airs influence in the initial part of the stroke. Having as a separate unit gives us much better performance and tuneability.



> Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?


Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product. Additionally, the major manufacturers have changed the way they do business which has changed the way that we can support their products with aftermarket service and tuning. We saw this writing on the wall early on and made adjustments. It's been quite a while since you visited and I know you'd be pretty stoked to see what our manufacturing department has turned into! Just installed another new Citizen swiss last week!

Darren


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## monkeyboyjong (Feb 23, 2009)

Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product.


Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?

I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?


MAybe as early as today, but definitely this week.



> Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?
> 
> I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.


There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.

Darren


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.
> Darren


So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Renegade said:


> So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
> I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?


Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

Darren


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...



PUSHIND said:


> No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.


We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.

As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:

Anti-Bottoming System Varaitions

On my Ohlins RXF 48 forks on my KTM, I have these:

MX-Tech Works - Huck Valve - MX-Tech

Both items seem to be anti bottoming solutions that use hydraulic lockouts independent of the spring, and I for the life of me I cannot get either of them to violently bottom out.



PUSHIND said:


> It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.


Insert first serving of humble pie. Sir Isaac Newton and his third Law Should be insulted by my lack of knowledge retention. I was looking at it from the perspective that the damper doesn't generate the force....that the input from the rider and the ground generated the force, to which the damper applies resistance. Alas, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and I concede, its not semantics, resistance is a force.



PUSHIND said:


> Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.
> 
> Darren


Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).

Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.

At any rate, I am sure it performs, your team wouldn't be around if you failed to deliver. Apologies for ruffling feathers.


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.


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## bigwhls (Dec 6, 2010)

artsn said:


> guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.


plus one!!!


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Darren,
When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

artsn said:


> Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.


Ground traction is unreal. super smooth throughout the entire stoke. Despite some nasty hits, I've yet to find bottom per the o-ring, yet I never feel like I'm short on travel - it's there if I need it. Damping controls are superb as well, but I have the Push tune, not the stock Fox.

One of my friends, who is a very skilled rider, is a doubting Thomas type. He tried my bike once, walked into PUSH (local for is) the next day and bought a new fully equipped 36. His comment: "this is next level stuff". Two other of my friends are queuing up to make the switch as well.

I have a hard time believing that anyone would go back to stock air after trying this system


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.
> 
> Darren


Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Renegade said:


> Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?


Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

SyT said:


> Darren,
> When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?


We don't have dates yet. Also, 130mm is not confirmed. 140-160 for sure though.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...


I didn't take it as adversarial...my apologies if I came off that way. Tone seems to always be lost on message boards unfortunately.



> We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.
> 
> As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:
> 
> ...


Jeremy Wilkey is a smart dude that I have a lot of respect for. Both his Huck Valve(very advanced shimmed system) and the Avy system(basic cup/cone) control having a violent end stroke once you've already got there. These systems are used in addition to a progressive spring mechanism and velocity sensitive damper.

While you can use our ABS for just bottoming control, it's designed to work with the coil spring over the entire stroke of the fork. Better yet, it's simply externally adjustable allowing you the rider to define it's purpose trail side! :thumbsup:]



> Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).


First off, all suspension forks and shocks are "Speed Sensitive"....even if it is also position sensitive. It doesn't matter if it is a port orifice system with a single hole, or an advanced multi-stage piston/multi-stage valving arrangement.....compression and rebound damping are measured by how much force is being generated at a given velocity. The idea of "upgrading" or "converting to "Speed Sensitive" is bogus.

As for position sensitive, there are many forms of this but the basis is on changing the damping force range based on where the suspension is in the stroke. This is commonly done with bypass systems that allow some of the oil to pass freely in the first part of the stroke, and then removing that bypass later on in the shocks travel. Here's a good link showing a FOX system: 




Lastly is multi-stage valving. This is a method of allowing you to run higher damping force for aggressive riding as your base setting, while still trying to give the rider a bit of comfort at lower suspension velocities. It's quite simple really. There's a lot of misinformation that using multi stacks are a way of creating all of this wizardry and multiple suspension characteristics for varied terrain, but it's really not that complex.



> Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.


I would never recommend sending your suspension off to a tuner before riding it and thoroughly exploring the base settings unless you're wildly off the scale of the stock suspension in weight or ability, or have had a similar vehicle already tuned by someone you have a relationship with. The stock suspension with a little time will fit a large portion of the rider base. Or ACS3 kit was designed specifically to work with the stock fork chassis and damper settings. For the minority of riders that fall outside the range of the stock settings than we certainly offer tuning for that!:thumbsup:

Darren


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.
> 
> Darren


Your website still lists the RP23 as a shock you provide service for, hence my question.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

man im also curious to hear the reviews. my ocd is going to kill me if i have a coil fork and an air float x rear shock lol. 

i have a creaky csu on my fox36, which i need to send back to fox for warranty, then hopefully i'll have some money to get the acs3


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.
> 
> Darren


A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.


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## EnglishGent (May 20, 2008)

Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.

I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?

Regards,

Mark


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Renegade said:


> A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.


I haven't been involved in our Technical Service department in over two years. The people involved with making these decisions brought up your case as a weekly meeting per your request. I simply supported their decision as they are the most informed with what we can, and cannot do.



> Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.
> 
> I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?


To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.

Darren


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## EnglishGent (May 20, 2008)

*Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit*



PUSHIND said:


> To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.
> 
> Darren


Thanks Darren,

I think I may try this out, if it doesn't work then I'll either keep it for when I replace my forks or sell it on.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

Does anyone know how much weight this will will add to the fork? I am considering converting my 2018 Float RC2 170mm. What is the weight hit?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

The weight won't be a factor once you ride it, but here are the numbers: 

ACS-3 will add 210-285 grams to a Fox 36 Float, or between 65-150 grams to a 36 TALAS.

Darren


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?

How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?

Thanks!


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## kidwoo (Aug 11, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary?


How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.

I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.

Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.

I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...


:thumbsup: Thanks for your business!



> Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?
> 
> How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?


We're working on confirming the 170 29 fork and should have info shortly.

To change travel it requires a new kit. Modern FOX/RS forks are no longer able to change travel by swapping spacers unfortunately.



> How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.


The majority of riders found themselves over-springing the fork and running damping settings that compromised the overall performance.



> I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.


Unless you modified the air spring, it's actually quite progressive.



> Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.


Yes. With just a coil spring the fork is too linear to have both good bump sensitivity and big hit control. Additionally, you won't find a single user of our ACS3 kit that isn't running pressure in their ABS unit.



> I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.


Using this logic you're saying that frame manufacturers could simplify their frame designs once the rear shock technology improves? You make it sound like with proper compression damping circuits that there wouldn't be a need for rising rate frames and complex linkages.

Darren


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

Jaysrubi said:


> Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fox 36 29er 170mm

I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!

They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

titusquasi said:


> Fox 36 29er 170mm
> 
> I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!
> 
> They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.


Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

@Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?

Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

woodyak said:


> Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.
> 
> I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.
> 
> ...


Great review.

I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

titusquasi said:


> The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.


any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Great review.
> 
> I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.


im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

useport80 said:


> im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)


with gear, i'm still a good 15 pounds less than you. I went with what they recommended, then fiddled with the air stop to get it where i want. Factory was 25 psi. I'm happy with 15 on a digital gauge. Small changes seem to make big differences with the air stop.


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

mfa81 said:


> any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?


I don't know. WWC said they had litterally just received a few into inventory and they were aware that the 170 29er couldn't be found elsewhere at that moment. I'm personally tired of black bikes so with a blue Wreckoning I can happily rock the orange fork!


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## slim2none (Jun 3, 2009)

A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> woodyak
> Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.
> 
> I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> titusquasi
> @Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?
> 
> Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!


Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.



> slim2none
> A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.


No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.

Darren


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.
> 
> No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.
> 
> Darren


Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Jaysrubi said:


> Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.

Darren


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.
> 
> Darren


Thank you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klainmeister (Apr 14, 2012)

Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Klainmeister said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?


It absolutely will work with Grip Damper model 36 forks and performs really well.

Darren


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## Ponyexpress46 (Sep 21, 2017)

Any predictions on use of the ACS-3 combined with the 2018 floatx2 shock? Anyone else planning to run this setup?


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## shaft (Oct 6, 2004)

I am building up a Hightower LT with X2 on the rear and Pike 160. Waiting on the release of the ACS-3 for my fork. Hoping this is a great combo.


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

Same! I have a Pike 160 on my Nomad. Definitely interested in the ACS. Was thinking about getting a new fork but will wait for the ACS if it's going to be available in the near future.


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## maimed02 (Jul 25, 2014)

Can the ACS be used by heavier riders - 240lbs? As in, are springs that are firm enough available?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

So here's my little review (and rant at the end...not about Push Ind though):

I caved last week and got the ACS3 kit. I had previously considered fabbing up a way to drop in an old Fox 36 Van coil and then look at an Avalanche cartridge. But since I already had a bunch of money in the RC2 damper (Andreani/Ohlins piston and Push tune), I decided to keep it 'Push'.

I also had my rear shock (which is a Push tuned DHX with their custom bridge) revalved to soften the initial stroke. So I was looking forward to going riding. 

The ACS3 kit is nicely made! I had doubts about the cost and that end stroke air spring. I wasn't sure if it was legit or a gimmick, but overall it's all high-end looking and feeling, and the install was easy. So getting to riding: climbing improved big time! I guess I was so used to that lousy Fox air spring with an aftermarket main seal head to improve small bump compliance (made by 92SE-R in these forums...made an improvement for sure!), that I forgot how a coil fork could help with climbing: no more, or vastly reduced, wheel deflection. Plus the fork tracks through the obstacles instead of over them or bouncing off them. As for descending, well I carried more speed than I was previously used to on this bike with the coil in front and revised shock tune in rear. But it's not DH bike... with 6" in front and 5.5" in rear, I was getting rattled for sure. 

I had about 25psi in the air spring. I wasn't sure where to set it so I figured in the middle was good. I didn't want massive ramp up until I knew how it all felt. Next time I'm dropping to 15-20psi. But I can say that air spring works and obviously keeps that last bit of travel for those really big 'oh ****' moments. At the end of the day, you want your wheel 'suspended' and want your fork not bottoming out everywhere. 

Now for the rant: Hmmm...coil spring....end stroke air spring (think open bath damper with air pocket at the top end)...WE HAD THAT 20 YEARS AGO! Bit props to Push for developing parts and upgrades for modern forks though. I still think the Fox 36 is the best single chassis around even though their internals are complete garbage, but this bike industry is getting silly. Somehow air springs were pushed on us, meanwhile everyone knows they're not as good as coil. Online mags like to say "feels like a coil" but we all know that can't be true. Maybe because everyone is using closed/sealed dampers with no ramp up a the end so an air spring is necessary? I don't know. What I do know is a guy like Craig has been making his DHF cartridges pretty much the same since 1999 (except with a few upgrades) and they still work better than any new 2018 product. Rant over.

Overall I'm super happy with the Push ACS3 system. If you're fed up with your air spring and know you're not getting rid of your fork because you're tired of dumping money into bikes due to all these new standards and other bullshit, then the ACS3 may be for you! You don't feel the added weight at all because you're too busy ripping up trails that gave you issues before! 

Makes me wonder... how are the Fox 40 with Ti springs working? Are they always bottoming out or are people running them oversprung? Push could make an end-stroke air spring for the 40. That would be neat.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Good thoughts. With the Avy cart, I get the air-spring effect with the oil level + the hydraulic anti-bottoming cone, and based on my hard riding, this has definitely worked well at the end of stroke, even on the biggest of screw-ups or hits that weren't intended (like completely clearing a big jump and transition on the other side). The other thing you get is a real open-bath damper, simplifying the oil changes, wear and tear on the parts (no bladder to break or bleed) and lubricate, leaving the other side with it's oil bath. Although there are performance advantages to the closed dampers, in my experience the actual damping tune is more critical and more than often not "nailed" as far as the piston and shim setup. 

It's kind of interesting how we have two ways to go about something (avy cart + regular spring and coil conversion + original damper) and can get decent results either way. For the most part, what we haven't had is a good coil damped shock, it's a unicorn that shows up every once and a while, then disappears. The Marzocchi RC2 Evo Ti -whatever else dampers that were almost copies of the Avalanche approached this, as did some of the coil fox with the true high/low speed adjustable dampers, but just as soon as these products showed up, it seemed they went away, and damn if we can ever get this stuff in decent XC chassis to have actual adjustable low and high speed damping without turning the suspension into a jackhammer when you try to run more than a few clicks of rebound or compression damping. Earlier stuff like the old Shivers, Monster Ts, Boxxers, etc., were just absolute jokes in terms of damping. They had the springs, some of them had the lubrication, but the dampers were so crude that any actual control seemed to be random chance, rather than a designed-in-feature. 

As you say, none of this is secret technology and it's been in existence and used in motor sports for much longer, as well as since at least 1998 with avalanche, yet every year Fox seems to be trying to ram a new 3-position damper down our throats with the "blows through travel, harsh and unbelievably harsh-damper settings.


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

Super stoked. Ordered the spring kit for my 18 36 this weekend. CANT WAIT. Looking forward to that flat tire plushness.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

@artsn: You're going to like it.

Push is in a position where they could unleash a line of single-tune shocks for the AM/Enduro/DH crowds. My feeling is over the last several years, Push has slowly come more and more into the spotlight and I think a new line of shocks would be well received and popular. Not sure if they've considered this or if it would be sustainable or a money maker.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

@ChristoperRobin - small incremental PSI in the air stop make for big performance changes. Dropping mine from "stock" 25 psi to 17 psi (digital shock pump) made a big difference. Definitely don't be afraid to experiment.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Same! I have a Pike 160 on my Nomad. Definitely interested in the ACS. Was thinking about getting a new fork but will wait for the ACS if it's going to be available in the near future.


The PIKE version has been released into production, so it won't be long. We should have a sign up available within a couple of weeks.



> Can the ACS be used by heavier riders - 240lbs? As in, are springs that are firm enough available?


The current kit will support up to 245lbs with our grey spring(60lb/in) in both the 160mm and 170mm configurations. Our spring chart is a little conservative for riders over 210lbs based on feedback.



> Overall I'm super happy with the Push ACS3 system. If you're fed up with your air spring and know you're not getting rid of your fork because you're tired of dumping money into bikes due to all these new standards and other bullshit, then the ACS3 may be for you! You don't feel the added weight at all because you're too busy ripping up trails that gave you issues before!


:thumbsup: Stoked about the fact that you like both the fit and finish as well as the performance. As with all of our products, a lot of time and energy is put into them.



> Super stoked. Ordered the spring kit for my 18 36 this weekend. CANT WAIT. Looking forward to that flat tire plushness.


:thumbsup:



> Push is in a position where they could unleash a line of single-tune shocks for the AM/Enduro/DH crowds. My feeling is over the last several years, Push has slowly come more and more into the spotlight and I think a new line of shocks would be well received and popular. Not sure if they've considered this or if it would be sustainable or a money maker


You make it sound so easy!  The reality is, we're a small company compared to the other suspension companies that are out there and we just don't have the budgets they do. Also, we've chosen a business path that you don't find very often in our industry in the fact that we do everything right here under our roof....including all of the manufacturing. So for us, with limited resources, we have to be selective about every product that we make because we want to ensure the best customer experience possible.

Darren


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> The PIKE version has been released into production, so it won't be long. We should have a sign up available within a couple of weeks.
> 
> Darren


Excellent. I'll be signing up!


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Craw said:


> Excellent. I'll be signing up!


x2!


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...

How much does the damper effect the feel?


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

kamper11 said:


> Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...
> 
> How much does the damper effect the feel?


Think how different a fork rides with the rebound all the way closed, and all the way open. Same with the compression dial. That's how much a damper can effect the feel. 
A fork without a damper is just a pogo stick, no matter if the spring is coil or air.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.


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## reformed roadie (Mar 30, 2008)

Why wait?
https://www.tftuned.com/pike-coil-conversion-kit/p3314

Or pay twice as much?


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

reformed roadie said:


> Why wait?
> https://www.tftuned.com/pike-coil-conversion-kit/p3314
> 
> Or pay twice as much?


Because it's not the same product


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Because it's not the same product


Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?


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## reformed roadie (Mar 30, 2008)

Renegade said:


> Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?


Both in Loveland, CO...maybe just neighbors...

Or on the payroll.

I get it, one has a air component to ramp up. Also costs twice as much. I guess if you need to match your eleven-6, you don't care about dropping $400 modding a $1000 fork.

Until Fox releases a 36 Vanilla.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Renegade said:


> Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?


Might not be on the payroll but more the "broroll" aka getting parts before they come out to other at cost or slightly above. I would be SHOCKED if he pays MSRP for everything.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

I think the Push air spring has benefits. My open bath downhill fork has that 5" air pocket at the top for end stroke progression. I'd like to hear an in depth review from someone that has a Pike with coil conversion. It would be interesting to see the difference between the two. 

Regarding that comment about throwing $400 at an already $1000...yeah it's silly but why is there room to make an already expensive fork work better??

I bet Fox comes out with a Vanilla fork and charge extra saying it's the next best thing (meanwhile we'll be going back in time) because they'll see people are switching to coil. I think it'll be like their evol cans: Vorsprung came up with a cool way of dealing with Fox's spring issue and the next thing you know, evol cans are released.


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

Christopher Robin said:


> ... I bet Fox comes out with a Vanilla fork and charge extra saying it's the next best thing (meanwhile we'll be going back in time) because they'll see people are switching to coil. I think it'll be like their evol cans: Vorsprung came up with a cool way of dealing with Fox's spring issue and the next thing you know, evol cans are released.


Of course they will. They'd be silly not to

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skyval (May 2, 2006)

Streetdoctor said:


> LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.


That seems pretty high, what's your geared up weight?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

That high eh? I'll be trying closer to 17psi this afternoon


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

skyval said:


> That seems pretty high, what's your geared up weight?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Has nothing to do with weight brah  200lb 55lb spring. Rode a semi-mild trail, used all but a little more then 1". Moab next week will be the real test.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

What's the philosophy on these...lighter coil/ higher psi or heavier coil/ lower psi, who's tried both?


Anyone installed hbo into the rc2 side w/ lighter coil?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...
> 
> How much does the damper effect the feel?


The damper certainly effects the feel and performance but with the dampers listed there is a significant amount of adjustability for the rider to dial in their ride preference.



> LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.


:thumbsup:



> Why wait?
> https://www.tftuned.com/pike-coil-conversion-kit/p3314
> 
> Or pay twice as much?


TF is a long term partner of ours as well as PUSH Tuning Center. This product is sold as an entry level kit, whereas they offer our ACS3 kit to performance minded customers.



> What's the philosophy on these...lighter coil/ higher psi or heavier coil/ lower psi, who's tried both?
> 
> Anyone installed hbo into the rc2 side w/ lighter coil?


It's not really like that. You want to make sure you get on the correct spring rate for your weight/riding style and then use the ABS unit to control the ramp up/end stroke feel you prefer. There is no right or wrong pressure to run, just personal preference and riding style. You can have to riders of equal weight on equal bikes with the same spring rate but with a 20psi difference in their ABS unit based on riding style.

Darren


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Will the pike one work with 29er 140mm fork? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> It's not really like that. You want to make sure you get on the correct spring rate for your weight/riding style and then use the ABS unit to control the ramp up/end stroke feel you prefer. There is no right or wrong pressure to run, just personal preference and riding style. You can have to riders of equal weight on equal bikes with the same spring rate but with a 20psi difference in their ABS unit based on riding style.
> 
> Darren


Thanks. Purely end of travel tuning...nice, sounds smooth


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## reformed roadie (Mar 30, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> TF is a long term partner of ours as well as PUSH Tuning Center. This product is sold as an entry level kit, whereas they offer our ACS3 kit to performance minded customers.
> 
> Darren


Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

reformed roadie said:


> Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.


Is that really what you think Darren is trying to say from his replies? I doubt that. Your questions are misleading and designed only to provoke.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Is that really what you think Darren is trying to say from his replies? I doubt that. Your questions are misleading and designed only to provoke.


Haters are going to hate. Once sampled, the product speaks for itself. I only hope they make an 11-6 for the new Enduros.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

reformed roadie said:


> Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.


No, however the later model FIT 36 Vanilla had lost it's hydraulic bottom out feature and the FLOAT/TALAS versions were being sold as the flagship models. Regardless, the Vanilla was a completely engineered product, not a FLOAT where the air shaft was modified and a spring put in the leg.

Also, referring to the TF kit as entry-level is not my words, it comes from TF themselves.

Darren


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## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Any more ride reports for the ACS-3? Specifically, how much noise does the coil spring make compared the older Fox coil sprung 36? Thanks


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## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

I would love to see some charts showing the differences between the Mattoc Pro 2 with MRD IRT installed, and the ACS3 installed in non-revalved Float 36!


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

nmxtrdr said:


> Any more ride reports for the ACS-3? Specifically, how much noise does the coil spring make compared the older Fox coil sprung 36? Thanks


Zero noise. Nothing like the old fox.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

*ACS-3 is worth the cash if you're wondering.*

First post but long time reader and I'd like to share. Couple of guys in here already gave their fantastic reviews so no point in repeating what they said. Only thing I have to offer is a photo. Hint: AVY+ACS-3=BOMB.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Samuel0073 said:


> Hint: AVY+ACS-3=BOMB.


About your Avvy---did you have it before the ACS3? Did craig custom build it to work with the ACS3? Are you running the Avvy anti bottom valve, or using the Push air bump?

I've run an Avvy before and have wondered how well it would play with this "progressive" coil setup....


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

tdc_worm said:


> About your Avvy---did you have it before the ACS3? Did craig custom build it to work with the ACS3? Are you running the Avvy anti bottom valve, or using the Push air bump?
> 
> I've run an Avvy before and have wondered how well it would play with this "progressive" coil setup....


I got the Avy after the ACS-3. I went from all stock to MRP for about 2 weeks, then went to ACS-3. ACS-3 with stock fit4 damper is much better but really wasn't that great either. FIT4 is really a horrible damper, well as good as it can be as it's made to try and please everyone out there. I almost went with a 2018 36 but after a lot of soul searching decided on the Avy upgrade. Thank heavens I did. Anyway, to your other questions.

Craig didn't do anything special when it came to tuning for the ACS-3. He did mention that once you you come into the range of the air bump, it will affect how the damper performs. My setup was new to him and he asked me quite a bit of questions on it. I got the anti-bottom valve so I can try the setup with the push air bump or with the anti-bottom valve. Craig also recommends going with the next stiffer coil as well. My weight calls for a blue push coil so I bought a green when I purchased the Avy damper.

There's a easy way to disable PUSH's air bump and go with the anti-bottoming valve. Take out the air bump cartridge, push on the piston, release all the air in the air bump. The piston stay's put and doesn't extend. This way, you have a completely linear setup. Yes, half or more of the cost of the ACS-3 probably goes into the air bump but it's still there and can be activated at a moments notice for different reasons.

If you want to try using the air-bump, instead of the anti-bottoming, it's a bit more involved as you have to take out the Avy cartridge and disable the anti-bottoming valve but I've tried it both ways and right now I prefer disabling the air bump. With the next coil for my weight I can push it pretty hard without bottoming and if it does bottom out (you can't technically with the anti-bottom valve activated), I increase lsc by 1 click and that solves that issue. Doing it this way, I feel, gives me the most efficient way to use all of the forks travel.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

What's that 36 weigh with the coil and avy conversion installed?


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

SyT said:


> Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?


Not sure why you need it but here it is.

ID: 18.75mm
OD: 28.1mm
Length: 11 7/8 in


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

artsn said:


> What's that 36 weigh with the coil and avy conversion installed?


Well, the Fox 36 weighs 1,964g, the ACS-3 will add 285g or so and the ava cart is 238g. That brings the grand total to 2,487g or about 5.48lbs. Extra pound but I really didn't notice a difference at all. Just gotta make sure I take a piss before my rides.


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

Adding my two cents - I too have the ACS-3 on a Nomad 3 in front of an 11/6, in a 160mm Fox 36 RC2 I had already purchased from PUSH about three weeks before the ACS-3 was announced. The new air spring was already sticking so badly I had the worst bike park experience of my life last month at Whistler. With the tuned damper I had enough range of adjustment there, but the spring just wouldn't move fast enough to go down the chatter at full speed. PUSH called me in response to my customer service request for help and we figured this might be the fix - which it has been.

My riding weight is about in the middle of the green and heavier black spring, so I went with the black spring. Feels firm in a parking lot push-down test and rides high (20mm or so) but when riding it's great. Everything is fixed now - it will move easily and quickly for bumps. On an air spring there's often this feel on the back end of a square edge where you feel the fork extend after it breaks through that initial stiction...that's just not there anymore. If I was just riding along I might want the green spring for a little more plushness at slow to average speeds, but for going fast and landing on things the heavier spring is absolutely the way to go.

The big parks are closed now, but there are some really high speed berms and turns into jumps at a small park near me that are suffering from late-season blow out and have lots of braking bumps leading into them. I can rip all the way through them nearly sideways. Best way to put it is I have monster truck traction at both ends of the bike and can probably get a way with a lot more now than before.

And of course it sets the PUSH RC2 cartridge free so single clicks of adjustment are once again noticeable, just like when it was new a couple months ago, or in the 11/6. 

Weight...not noticed. My Nomad was 28.75 pounds when it started, now it's something over 30 with Onyx hubs, 2.6" tires, an 11/6 and the Fox 36. It's faster now, up and down...


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Samuel0073 said:


> Not sure why you need it but here it is.
> 
> ID: 18.75mm
> OD: 28.1mm
> Length: 11 7/8 in


Thank you.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Rode my other bike with a Fox 34 (fit4) yesterday after spending the previous two days in moab on the Push 36 (valving and coil) and the 36 has ruined me. Everything else feels like ****. Thanks Push.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> FIT4 is really a horrible damper, well as good as it can be as it's made to try and please everyone out there.


I'm guessing that there's something up with yours because the FIT-4 damper is really quite good. When tuned it's about the best damper out there IMO.

Ultimately, I'm stoked you found a setup that works so well for you! :thumbsup:



> Rode my other bike with a Fox 34 (fit4) yesterday after spending the previous two days in moab on the Push 36 (valving and coil) and the 36 has ruined me. Everything else feels like ****. Thanks Push.


You're so very welcome! 



> Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?


They vary based on rate. Specifically on free length.



> I would love to see some charts showing the differences between the Mattoc Pro 2 with MRD IRT installed, and the ACS3 installed in non-revalved Float 36!


Air vs Coil. The difference would be the same as the 36 Air vs Coil setup.

Darren


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## Marc_Encinitas (Aug 15, 2010)

I've got a 2016 Fox 36 RC2 with some minor nicks on the stanchions. It still holds air but I'm hoping to improve performance and extend the fork's life by installing an ACS3 the next time it needs service. With the sealed RC2 damping system and an ACS3 coil spring, would I even need to care anymore about scratched stanchions?


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

TXNavy said:


> Adding my two cents - I too have the ACS-3 on a Nomad 3 in front of an 11/6


Almost the same here. Nomad 3, 11/6 that I got in June. New Fox 36 RC2 w/ ACS-3 from Push as soon as it became available in August. I was in-between two spring stiffnesses based on my inputs and weight (190lb w/ gear and shoes). The tech opted for the stiffer of the two springs since I wanted the "Trail Aggressive" style.

The only thing I've changed since getting it was to bump the bottom-out up to 20psi (the default) from 10psi (what they put in it). I've bottomed it out only once, on a pretty high-speed drop to an uphill landing. Everywhere else up to 7-10ft drops to flat it's been smooth.

Over time I've also noticed the improved performance climbing through rocks that I used to always get hung-up on. Traction is unbreakable all around unless I hit something that's actually slippery.

It's everything that the 11/6 does, but now my fork does it as well.


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## alan1 (Mar 22, 2007)

tbmaddux said:


> Almost the same here. Nomad 3, 11/6 that I got in June. New Fox 36 RC2 w/ ACS-3 from Push as soon as it became available in August. I was in-between two spring stiffnesses based on my inputs and weight (190lb w/ gear and shoes). The tech opted for the stiffer of the two springs since I wanted the "Trail Aggressive" style.
> 
> The only thing I've changed since getting it was to bump the bottom-out up to 20psi (the default) from 10psi (what they put in it). I've bottomed it out only once, on a pretty high-speed drop to an uphill landing. Everywhere else up to 7-10ft drops to flat it's been smooth.
> 
> ...


Do Push do anything else to the fork apart from fitting the coil


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

PUSHIND said:


> They vary based on rate. Specifically on free length.


 Darren, the 55#/in is the rate I'm specifically asking for.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

SyT said:


> Darren, the 55#/in is the rate I'm specifically asking for.


Funny, that's the exact coil I used when taking the measurements. 55#/in black coil.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Samuel0073 said:


> Funny, that's the exact coil I used when taking the measurements. 55#/in black coil.


Excellent, thanks again!


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Has anyone with this kit ( I have 2 of them) thought that they needed to go with a lighter spring than Pushes charts recommends? I have 2 Fox 36 160 mm forks and I'm 170ish with gear which puts me right in the middle of the blue spring but I only get about 20 % sag and the fork ride higher and I can't get the last bit of travel. My HA is around 65 deg on both bikes, so could that require me to go with an orange spring? You know, more side loading on the fork bushings and less downward force! Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

Edit: I'm using about 15 psi in the bump stop. I know I could go down to 5 psi, but that doesn't affect the sag anyway!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

blcman said:


> Has anyone with this kit ( I have 2 of them) thought that they needed to go with a lighter spring than Pushes charts recommends? I have 2 Fox 36 160 mm forks and I'm 170ish with gear which puts me right in the middle of the blue spring but I only get about 20 % sag and the fork ride higher and I can't get the last bit of travel. My HA is around 65 deg on both bikes, so could that require me to go with an orange spring? You know, more side loading on the fork bushings and less downward force! Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> Edit: I'm using about 15 psi in the bump stop. I know I could go down to 5 psi, but that doesn't affect the sag anyway!


Unfortunately, the amount of travel used has become an indicator of suspension performance in the MTB community when in fact using full travel generally means your setup is too soft. Should you bottom you suspension? Yes. Should it be a guage of proper setup...no. At your rider weight, you're perfect for the blue(45lb/in) spring with about 15-20psi of ABS pressure. Be happy that when that oh sh^% moment arrives you're prepared!

As for sag.....that's honestly the biggest variable with MTB suspension and should only be used as a rough guide to get started. Seated, standing, over the front of the bars, laying near the rear wheel, seatpost compressed, seatpost extended.....too many factors to be accurate.

Ride quality is the key these days, not sag or travel numbers unfortunately.

I'd be happy to discuss your setup directly if you want to email or phone me.

Thanks,

Darren


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

PUSHIND said:


> Unfortunately, the amount of travel used has become an indicator of suspension performance in the MTB community when in fact using full travel generally means your setup is too soft. Should you bottom you suspension? Yes. Should it be a guage of proper setup...no. At your rider weight, you're perfect for the blue(45lb/in) spring with about 15-20psi of ABS pressure. Be happy that when that oh sh^% moment arrives you're prepared!
> 
> As for sag.....that's honestly the biggest variable with MTB suspension and should only be used as a rough guide to get started. Seated, standing, over the front of the bars, laying near the rear wheel, seatpost compressed, seatpost extended.....too many factors to be accurate.
> 
> ...


Thanks Darren for chiming in on this. I had already talked to one of your techs earlier today and was told pretty much the same thing. I like to experiment with my setups so I went ahead and ordered a orange spring just for fun to see how it works. I probably will need more bump stop pressure for sure but I like a supportive and plush suspension, which your spring kit already delivers in spades. :thumbsup:


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.


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## Mikipedia_ (Oct 22, 2015)

How tight is the valve against other things? Maybe this will fit ??
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-se/t...SHVPZdg-53O4KUn5UuIItgnGqM24uq0YaAv8qEALw_wcB


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Christopher Robin said:


> My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.


Just get this and be done with it. Identical to the fox.

https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Fork-S...1508333288&sr=8-3&keywords=digital+shock+pump


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## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

So I've decided to pull the trigger on the ACS-3. I'm converting a 2018 Fox 36 Performance. I'm right on the line between the blue spring and green spring depending if I'm riding with heavier or lighter kit. Could someone lend some insight on some of the benefits / drawbacks of going with the lighter vs heavier spring. I suppose I could get both but I'd like to avoid it if possible. I ride a lot of rocks/roots in south east w/ the occasional 4 ft or less drop. Want the small bump compliance of coil with glued to the ground feel.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

jimarin said:


> Just get this and be done with it. Identical to the fox.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Fork-S...1508333288&sr=8-3&keywords=digital+shock+pump


Agreed. I have one from Performance that I'm sure is also the same as the Venzo & Fox, just with a different logo. Works great.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Hmm, now, should I wait for a ACS3 for my 160mm Avy Pike or get a 170mm Push ACS3 Float? 
Nomad 3 with 11-6.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Headoc said:


> So I've decided to pull the trigger on the ACS-3. I'm converting a 2018 Fox 36 Performance. I'm right on the line between the blue spring and green spring depending if I'm riding with heavier or lighter kit. Could someone lend some insight on some of the benefits / drawbacks of going with the lighter vs heavier spring. I suppose I could get both but I'd like to avoid it if possible. I ride a lot of rocks/roots in south east w/ the occasional 4 ft or less drop. Want the small bump compliance of coil with glued to the ground feel.


Now is a great time as you can get free shipping through Friday using Discount Code: PUSH14 at checkout! How much do you weigh and what bike is it going on?

Darren


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

jazzanova said:


> Hmm, now, should I wait for a ACS3 for my 160mm Avy Pike or get a 170mm Push ACS3 Float?
> Nomad 3 with 11-6.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

A_street said:


> I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.


Craig didn't recommend the luftkappe for a 160mm fork. However, he said a 150 or 140 would benefit...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

jazzanova said:


> Craig didn't recommend the luftkappe for a 160mm fork. However, he said a 150 or 140 would benefit...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?


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## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

PUSHIND said:


> Now is a great time as you can get free shipping through Friday using Discount Code: PUSH14 at checkout! How much do you weigh and what bike is it going on?
> 
> Darren


180-185 Kitted depending if I got to eat lunch the day before.

2018 Rallon.

You want to put together an 11-6 for it too? I'm all in on this coil resurgence. :thumbsup:


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

A_street said:


> I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?


Yes 0 tokens. I am light, 140lbs and never bottom out the Avy pike. 
What I would like to fix is the loss of travel due to the negative chamber and stiction. My pike sits at 150mm instead of 160mm. Sometimes even lower. 
I also want to improve small bump compliance without running too little preload and introducing excessive diving when braking. 
The fork is progressive enough for me.

I don't remember Craigs exact reason for not running the luftkappe in my case. 
I believe it has something to do with tokens and negative air and contradiction...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Headoc said:


> 180-185 Kitted depending if I got to eat lunch the day before.
> 
> 2018 Rallon.
> 
> You want to put together an 11-6 for it too? I'm all in on this coil resurgence. :thumbsup:


At that weight you're on the high end of the Blue, and the low end of the green. If you want plush, go Blue and run 20-30psi in the ABS. The green would still be better than the air setup, but would really get good when charging harder and riding bigger terrain.

That bike is very interesting to me....need to get our hands on one.

Darren


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

jazzanova said:


> Yes 0 tokens. I am light, 140lbs and never bottom out the Avy pike.
> What I would like to fix is the loss of travel due to the negative chamber and stiction. My pike sits at 150mm instead of 160mm. Sometimes even lower.
> I also want to improve small bump compliance without running too little preload and introducing excessive diving when braking.
> The fork is progressive enough for me.
> ...


Have you tried letting all the air pressure out and then doing the zip tie trick? That should allow the fork to extend to full travel.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

A_street said:


> Have you tried letting all the air pressure out and then doing the zip tie trick? That should allow the fork to extend to full travel.


I have tried everything possible  
Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple. 
Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments. 
Zip tie trick. 
I should mention this was originally a 150fork and I swapped the 150mm airshaft with a 160mm. 
I can equalize the air by pulling on the fork. Either with no air in the upper chamber or while on the trail with air inside. I can manually extend it to 160mm, but it doesn't stay there, when I press on it it comes back to only 150mm or even less... 
I am running 50psi to 54psi. 
Craig recommends 50 for my we

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

jazzanova said:


> I have tried everything possible
> Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple.
> Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments.
> Zip tie trick.
> ...


You had me at "air shaft"


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> You had me at "air shaft"


 
Any recommendations? 
Before I jump on the coil, I would like to see if there is anything else I can try with the air to get the travel to 160mm...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

jazzanova said:


> Any recommendations?
> Before I jump on the coil, I would like to see if there is anything else I can try with the air to get the travel to 160mm...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Sorry, no. I'm a ACS -Fox guy. I'm done fiddling with tokens, zip ties, constant pressure checks and various add-on widgets in the never ending futile attempt to get an air fork to feel right.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

jazzanova said:


> I have tried everything possible
> Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple.
> Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments.
> Zip tie trick.
> ...


I'm in the same situation with my Pike with an avy damper. The zip tie trick will work temporarily. Once the fork gets sucked down I'm either stuck with that or adding air to restore the ride height which makes the fork feel terrible. I've also tried everything you listed here with no success. Just did the full air side service as well as damper oil change and it's still the same.



A_street said:


> I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.


Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.

I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

The "Zip Tie" trick only works on positive pressure that's burped from the air spring into the lower leg. So, if you're having problems with the fork not extending fully this won't help. The problem that you're experiencing has to do with the equalization of the positive and negative air in the air spring. When combined with the friction from the system you get a fork that won't extend fully. Servicing the fork and air system will provide a temporary fix, but doesn't last.

Darren


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> The "Zip Tie" trick only works on positive pressure that's burped from the air spring into the lower leg. So, if you're having problems with the fork not extending fully this won't help. The problem that you're experiencing has to do with the equalization of the positive and negative air in the air spring. When combined with the friction from the system you get a fork that won't extend fully. Servicing the fork and air system will provide a temporary fix, but doesn't last.
> 
> Darren


Is this a common thing?
Why does it happen to some air forks while most don't have the problem? 
Can a relatively low air pressure due to my weight be a factor here? 
I have also noticed that a hard riding in a park can sometimes help to a certain extend.
Is there anything at all I can try to solve this?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

saucerboy said:


> Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.
> 
> I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.


Overkill was probably the wrong word to use. My opinion was based on the fact that there are other cheaper alternatives to get a similar effect. For me, that was the luftkappe and its benefits to initial stroke and ramp up. In this case though, you and Jazzanova cannot go that route though and have no other choice. I am about 200# when riding, what works for me is not going to work for someone who is 140#.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

saucerboy said:


> I'm in the same situation with my Pike with an avy damper. The zip tie trick will work temporarily. Once the fork gets sucked down I'm either stuck with that or adding air to restore the ride height which makes the fork feel terrible. I've also tried everything you listed here with no success. Just did the full air side service as well as damper oil change and it's still the same.
> 
> Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.
> 
> I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.


Initially, I thought the problem was with the way how the air shaft was installed.
There is a video made by mbr, I believe, that shows the air shaft being installed with fully pressed fork or air shaft inserted fully inside. This might create an excessive negative pressure and vacuum sucking the fork inside and effectively reducing travel. 
So I tried to install the air shaft various ways, nothing really helped...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> Is this a common thing?
> Why does it happen to some air forks while most don't have the problem?
> Can a relatively low air pressure due to my weight be a factor here?
> I have also noticed that a hard riding in a park can sometimes help to a certain extend.
> ...


It is very common, and it is due to running lower pressures. Basically air springs have a happy spot. Too far below and you get things like what you're experiencing, to far above and other traits get exaggerated.

As for the park riding, the fork is under such high loading that pressure building in the positive chamber as well as burping into the lower leg is causing the pressure balance to be off. I'm sure you've also noticed in this situation that you've lost the initial small bump sensitivity that the fork had as well.

This is why we built the ACS3 system. Set it, forget it, enjoy shredding a fork that feels the same regardless of temperature, elevation, humidity, number of runs....basically all of the things that negatively effect an air system. All, while throwing the air system 40hr maintenance out the door as well.

Darren


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> It is very common, and it is due to running lower pressures. Basically air springs have a happy spot. Too far below and you get things like what you're experiencing, to far above and other traits get exaggerated.
> 
> As for the park riding, the fork is under such high loading that pressure building in the positive chamber as well as burping into the lower leg is causing the pressure balance to be off. I'm sure you've also noticed in this situation that you've lost the initial small bump sensitivity that the fork had as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks Darren! 
So when will be the pike kit available? 
I know this is subjective and especially so, given the circumstances, but let me ask. 
Since I already own Avy open bath damper, do you approve to run it with your coil?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

A_street said:


> Overkill was probably the wrong word to use. My opinion was based on the fact that there are other cheaper alternatives to get a similar effect. For me, that was the luftkappe and its benefits to initial stroke and ramp up. In this case though, you and Jazzanova cannot go that route though and have no other choice. I am about 200# when riding, what works for me is not going to work for someone who is 140#.


Gotcha. Yeah, I'm in between you guys in weight. About 180 without gear and try to run the fork at 65-70psi per Craig at Avalanche's recommendation. If the only hassle with air was the short maintenance I'd probably just stick with it. These other issues mean I'd be trying other forks in search of the one that doesn't have this problem anyway. The coil kit is cheaper and easier than that.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

Oh the days of dicking with an air spring has now been a thing of the past for me and many others. Tokens, ramps, lubes, pressures, rebuilds, magic fairy dust all futile. Life is so easy now with the ACS-3. It just works, beautifully I might add. Just the headache relief alone is worth the money. Also AVY+ACS-3 is not overkill, it finally feels on-par with the 11/6 I have in the rear.

Seriously though, if you want a system that works the way it should, be hassle free, and performs far better than any air spring setup. Coil is the way to go. I really don't see a reason not to switch to coil, spring swap? That's what... 2 minutes tops?


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## YogiKudo (May 12, 2013)

I have 3 Pikes. They all will build air in the lowers eventually. The reason you don't hear more about this is that most people don't notice the performance decline. I am buying the Push Coil system when available for the Pike. I need consistency. J


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

YogiKudo said:


> I have 3 Pikes. They all will build air in the lowers eventually. The reason you don't hear more about this is that most people don't notice the performance decline. I am buying the Push Coil system when available for the Pike. I need consistency. J


The new lower stanchion seals solved that and other things on my Pike. With that fix I'd put the stock Pike as more plush than the air spring 36. But I'd bet the ASC-3 in the Pike would be completely awesome. I think the Charger damper is great, even compared to my PUSH dampers over the years.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?


Christopher Robin said:


> My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

nhodge said:


> you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?


Check out post #153 on this thread.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Samuel0073 said:


> Oh the days of dicking with an air spring has now been a thing of the past for me and many others. Tokens, ramps, lubes, pressures, rebuilds, magic fairy dust all futile. Life is so easy now with the ACS-3. It just works, beautifully I might add. Just the headache relief alone is worth the money. Also AVY+ACS-3 is not overkill, it finally feels on-par with the 11/6 I have in the rear.
> 
> Seriously though, if you want a system that works the way it should, be hassle free, and performs far better than any air spring setup. Coil is the way to go. I really don't see a reason not to switch to coil, spring swap? That's what... 2 minutes tops?


:thumbsup:



> Thanks Darren!
> So when will be the pike kit available?
> I know this is subjective and especially so, given the circumstances, but let me ask.
> Since I already own Avy open bath damper, do you approve to run it with your coil?


Pike is currently in production. I was actually next door checking out the ABS units for the new Boost Pike being machined today. Won't be long before an announcement. As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.

Darren


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

nhodge said:


> you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?


Well to be fair, I'm still sorting out some stuff. My spring weight is fine but my damper is tuned with heavy damping right now from when I was heavier and using the air spring. My old Fox 36 Van with Avalanche cartridge was similar: unreal suspension quality but unless I screwed up and had all my weight on the front end, it would be hard to get the last bit of travel. Same goes with my 888 with Avalanche kit.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Pike is currently in production. I was actually next door checking out the ABS units for the new Boost Pike being machined today. Won't be long before an announcement. As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.
> 
> Darren


Darren, I thought I read somewhere that the ASC-3 would only be available for some Pike model years? Is that true or will it be available for any Pike?


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.

To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.

My Fox 36 currently has MRP Ramp Control (separate + & - chambers) on the air spring side. Frankly, I feel the MRP separate air chambers did the trick instead of the Andreani kit, even though I opted for the softer settings shims. The feeling now is closer to my benchmark feel on my DH fork, the Bos Idylle RaRe air, just a lil bit less sensitive and smooth through small bumps. 

Based on this experience, I feel an upgrade in the spring side would be a noticeable and worthwhile change instead of going for the damper tuning first. (Yea, fell for the Ohlins piston thingy in the Andreani kit)

Where I ride is usually very pedally, lots of technical switchback uphills, very wet and roots. 

Current happy settings with almost bottom out are:
Fork positive 55psi, negative 65psi, MRP ramp 0, LSC 3 clicks from zero, open, rebound 5 from slowest, front tyre 15psi, rider weight 81kg (178lb).

Cheers.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

saucerboy said:


> Darren, I thought I read somewhere that the ASC-3 would only be available for some Pike model years? Is that true or will it be available for any Pike?


It will be available for all models, although there will be multiple kits to address the difference in top cap thread pitch.



> Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.
> 
> To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.
> 
> ...


I've said this before....Damper tuning and modifications are a nice upgrade, but nowhere near the performance increase that you wold see after installing the ACS3 kit as even stock modern day dampers are quite good.

Darren


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Heiril said:


> Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.
> 
> To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.
> 
> ...


Ive got a BOS Idylle rare FCV on the big bike and I think the 36 with stock damper and the acs-3 blows it out of the water.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

A_street said:


> I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?


ok, I have found the email from Craig: "Luftkappe takes up some of the actual positive volume, its like adding 1-1/2 tokens. so with a 160mm set up the added benefit for the negative spring affect is diminishing by the increased progression of the positive spring. The ideal situation is at 150mm, where 1 token is required. At 120mm the negative spring begins to have too much affect and makes the first half of the stroke too soft. We cannot make valving adjustments that will help when the spring is too soft or too progressive, springs are position sensitive and the valving is speed sensitive. The most linear spring rate that the air spring can produce is the best possible scenerio for the cartridge."

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

nhodge said:


> you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?


I never set my fork up by sag, always by feel and the o-ring after a hard ride. Just too many variables. I like to have about 1"-1.5" of reserve just in case. As long as I am getting quality suspension up to that point I'm all good. I do bottom out once in a while, but that is what the reserve is for.

Just ordered my ACS-3 kit. I was planning on doing it soon, but couldn't pass on the free shipping.


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

jazzanova said:


> ok, I have found the email from Craig: "Luftkappe takes up some of the actual positive volume, its like adding 1-1/2 tokens. so with a 160mm set up the added benefit for the negative spring affect is diminishing by the increased progression of the positive spring. The ideal situation is at 150mm, where 1 token is required. At 120mm the negative spring begins to have too much affect and makes the first half of the stroke too soft. We cannot make valving adjustments that will help when the spring is too soft or too progressive, springs are position sensitive and the valving is speed sensitive. The most linear spring rate that the air spring can produce is the best possible scenerio for the cartridge."
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


That kind of makes sense to me, I had a pike 150 on my bronson, it had a fast damper upgrade on it, and I updated to both 160 and luftkappe at the same time. 
Not sure if this was a great move as I did not get a direct comparison. 
I did feel that it worked well in all my local trails which are more natural technical and very rocky, but in the alps on breaking bumps it was awful.
I concluded it was the extra progression which just did not suit my light weight.
I am not sure now whether to get rid of the luftkappe on the 160, or after reading a lot about this coil kit, just go for that as a upgrade.
The one thing about the luftkappe is with the larger negative chamber. The fork sags lower and my 160 has more of the same A to C as a 150, but I am also a inch away from full travel.

I guess this coil kit is ok for a 2014 rct3?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

so, i guess you're saying you wouldn't be happy w/ 2" of unused travel after a hard ride?


CUP-TON said:


> I never set my fork up by sag, always by feel and the o-ring after a hard ride. Just too many variables. I like to have about 1"-1.5" of reserve just in case. As long as I am getting quality suspension up to that point I'm all good. I do bottom out once in a while, but that is what the reserve is for.
> 
> Just ordered my ACS-3 kit. I was planning on doing it soon, but couldn't pass on the free shipping.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.
> 
> Darren


The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

nhodge said:


> so, i guess you're saying you wouldn't be happy w/ 2" of unused travel after a hard ride?


2" is a bit too much reserve for me. Although it depends on the ride. I opted for a stiffer spring in the kit as most of my rides include a lot of drops and rock gardens. But I may buy a softer spring for more XC oriented rides.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

that's how i would be looking at it. 
you might want to pay attention to "blcman's " posts on this thread coming up. he ordered a lesser rate spring for that reason, or at least to compare the two


CUP-TON said:


> 2" is a bit too much reserve for me. Although it depends on the ride. I opted for a stiffer spring in the kit as most of my rides include a lot of drops and rock gardens. But I may buy a softer spring for more XC oriented rides.


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

My green spring is silent but I just put in a black and it’s clicking. Any suggestions to get rid of the noise?


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

geraldooka said:


> The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that.


:thumbsup:


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

jimarin said:


> My green spring is silent but I just put in a black and it's clicking. Any suggestions to get rid of the noise?


Did you try putting grease on it?


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

CUP-TON said:


> Did you try putting grease on it?


No, I will. I doubt that will do too much but its worth a shot. It sounds like its tapping the stanchion wall.


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## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

My gray spring makes a ton of racket. After a while its fairly easy to tune out.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> My green spring is silent but I just put in a black and it's clicking. Any suggestions to get rid of the noise?


The Black and Grey springs are the burliest and are prone to the most noise. Putting some thicker grease near the shrink wrap will help for sure.



> The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that


I was referring to the FOX Fit dampers, btu regardless I'm stoked you have a setup that you really like!:thumbsup:

Darren


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Thanks, so some Park multi purpose over slickoleum?


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

saucerboy said:


> Gotcha. Yeah, I'm in between you guys in weight. About 180 without gear and try to run the fork at 65-70psi per Craig at Avalanche's recommendation. If the only hassle with air was the short maintenance I'd probably just stick with it. These other issues mean I'd be trying other forks in search of the one that doesn't have this problem anyway. The coil kit is cheaper and easier than that.


From Craig on the pike air shaft and push coil with his open bath cartridge. I wanted to know if he recommends using the coil with his open bath system:

I suspect your air piston quad seal is leaking by, it has to pass over the dimple thousands of times and this causes micro tears in the ring. Replace this and it will be most likely be fixed. The other issue is the plastic air piston maybe warped or the inner o-ring under the hex bolt is leaking.

*

The issue with a coil conversion is generally we would valve the rebound damping for the linear spring, but in the case of the Push system, their air abs ramp up defeats the purpose of converting to coil because the ramp up is still present, if you run 0 -15 psi it will not be an issue, but keep in mind we would prefer that the bottom out control be accomplished on the damper side with a end of stroke ABS hydraulic cone this is a better way, the mid stroke air ramp up will prevent full stroke on high speed ledge bumps and not allow the coil spring system to be linear to the end of stroke.

*



YogiKudo said:


> I have 3 Pikes. They all will build air in the lowers eventually. The reason you don't hear more about this is that most people don't notice the performance decline. I am buying the Push Coil system when available for the Pike. I need consistency. J





geraldooka said:


> The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

jazzanova said:


> From Craig on the pike air shaft and push coil with his open bath cartridge. I wanted to know if he recommends using the coil with his open bath system:
> 
> I suspect your air piston quad seal is leaking by, it has to pass over the dimple thousands of times and this causes micro tears in the ring. Replace this and it will be most likely be fixed. The other issue is the plastic air piston maybe warped or the inner o-ring under the hex bolt is leaking.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that information. I actually did a full service in the fork recently and replaced that seal. It only has a few rides on it since then.

Not sure I buy that the push air ramp up defeats the purpose of converting to coil as there seem to me a lot of other benefits to coil beyond just having a linear spring through the entire travel. Regardless, I'll looking forward to trying the two systems together in my pike.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

saucerboy said:


> Thanks for that information. I actually did a full service in the fork recently and replaced that seal. It only has a few rides on it since then.
> 
> Not sure I buy that the push air ramp up defeats the purpose of converting to coil as there seem to me a lot of other benefits to coil beyond just having a linear spring through the entire travel. Regardless, I'll looking forward to trying the two systems together in my pike.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


I believe what he was trying to tell was that his ABS system, which is an add-on option for the open bath cartridge would be a preffered way of controlling the bottom out. 
Someone in this thread with an avy open bath + ABS and Push ASC-3 Coil preffered the ABS controll over the Push in this case when running them together.

So, do you see any improvement after replacing the seal?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

jazzanova said:


> I believe what he was trying to tell was that his ABS system, which is an add-on option for the open bath cartridge would be a preffered way of controlling the bottom out.
> Someone in this thread with an avy open bath + ABS and Push ASC-3 Coil preffered the ABS controll over the Push in this case when running them together.
> 
> So, do you see any improvement after replacing the seal?
> ...


Sure, I can see that. That's different than saying there's no other point to the coil conversion. I don't have the ABS add on to my cart which I guess makes the Push system more useful?

No, I haven't seen any improvement after replacing the seal. It's always possible I did a bad job with the service though.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

"the mid stroke air ramp up will prevent full stroke on high speed ledge bumps and not allow the coil spring system to be linear to the end of stroke."

As someone who has significant ride time on the PUCH ACS3 system, and guessing that the folks at Avalanche have zero ride time on the PUSH system, this statement cracks me up. Gotta love e-engineers.

If you want a fully linear system, disengage the air stop on ACS3. I wouldn't want to ride it that way, but if that's your cup of tea it can be done.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

you seem to be as satisfied as anybody w/ the system. are you 12, 13, 14 clicks back from full closed on the HSC? would you mind stating your settings & what those leave you w/ @ sag & average unused travel after your typical ride?


The Squeaky Wheel said:


> "the mid stroke air ramp up will prevent full stroke on high speed ledge bumps and not allow the coil spring system to be linear to the end of stroke."
> 
> As someone who has significant ride time on the PUCH ACS3 system, and guessing that the folks at Avalanche have zero ride time on the PUSH system, this statement cracks me up. Gotta love e-engineers.
> 
> If you want a fully linear system, disengage the air stop on ACS3. I wouldn't want to ride it that way, but if that's your cup of tea it can be done.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

I don't know about you all, but I am so over-joyed that someone (Push) finally invented the coil sprung mountain bike fork.
I have Avy damping cartridges in two coil sprung Lyrik's that I have been riding for years, many years more that this new revelation from Push. Craig's bottom out mechanism works great. Pick your poison. Push is late to the party.


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

Renegade said:


> I don't know about you all, but I am so over-joyed that someone (Push) finally invented the coil sprung mountain bike fork.
> I have Avy damping cartridges in two coil sprung Lyrik's that I have been riding for years, many years more that this new revelation from Push. Craig's bottom out mechanism works great. Pick your poison. Push is late to the party.


The acs3 and an avy cartridge are not direct competition products. The acs3 is an upgrade to the air spring.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

nhodge said:


> you seem to be as satisfied as anybody w/ the system. are you 12, 13, 14 clicks back from full closed on the HSC? would you mind stating your settings & what those leave you w/ @ sag & average unused travel after your typical ride?


I have the 3 position damper, and so don't have adjustable HSC. I only have LSC and rely on the PUSH damper tune for the HSC settings, which are spot-on. As for LSC, I used to run that in the middle, around 12 clicks in. Because the coil is so dang smooth, I've stiffened the LSC by another 4 clicks which further reduces brake dive, but hasn't affected supple feel on small chatter.

I've never measured my sag. On a typical ride, I'm usually about an inch short of full travel, yet I never feel like I need more. Earlier in September I rode the Dolomites for a week and came within 1/2" of full. I just returned from a weekend in Moab, and twice the rad-meter showed full travel on some huge chunky "o-sh#t" type hits. Neither time did I feel hard bottom. Here in Colorado, I run 15-17 psi (digital gauge) on the air stop, in Moab I upped it to 25.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

A_street said:


> The acs3 and an avy cartridge are not direct competition products. The acs3 is an upgrade to the air spring.


Duh, yes, I know that. I am stating a stupid, ironic, sarcastic remark regarding the reception of this product, in relation to the evolution of mountain bike front suspension going back over 20 years. This remark of mine was not meant for you, nor did I expect 90% of the readers here to get what I am saying. Please don't give it any more thought.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

hey there, thanks for the detailed info. exactly what i hoped to get. will be very helpful to save time on trial & error experimenting.


The Squeaky Wheel said:


> I have the 3 position damper, and so don't have adjustable HSC. I only have LSC and rely on the PUSH damper tune for the HSC settings, which are spot-on. As for LSC, I used to run that in the middle, around 12 clicks in. Because the coil is so dang smooth, I've stiffened the LSC by another 4 clicks which further reduces brake dive, but hasn't affected supple feel on small chatter.
> 
> I've never measured my sag. On a typical ride, I'm usually about an inch short of full travel, yet I never feel like I need more. Earlier in September I rode the Dolomites for a week and came within 1/2" of full. I just returned from a weekend in Moab, and twice the rad-meter showed full travel on some huge chunky "o-sh#t" type hits. Neither time did I feel hard bottom. Here in Colorado, I run 15-17 psi (digital gauge) on the air stop, in Moab I upped it to 25.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Renegade said:


> ... nor did I expect 90% of the readers here to get what I am saying. Please don't give it any more thought.


That is a high number dang!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

I mentioned this in a previous post but it's worth mentioning again. In this case I'm describing the systems used in the FOX 36 and PIKE as they are relevant. Other systems can be different. 

1. Progressive, Position Sensitive
Air springs generate a progressive load based on position and control ride height and bottoming. They are not speed sensitive. 

2. Linear, Position Sensitive
Coil springs generate linear load based on position and control ride height and bottoming. They are not speed or velocity sensitive. 

3. Linear, Speed/Velocity Sensitive
Dampers/Damping generates force and is speed/velocity sensitive. This force is not position sensitive. 

4. Progressive, Position sensitive
The PUSH Air Bump Stop generates progressive load based on position. It is not speed/velocity sensitive.

5. Progressive, Speed/Velocity sensitive
Hydraulic Bottoming Systems 

We work with all of these systems regularly and have a vast knowledge of each one based on our in-house test lab, as well in-field testing with a very wide range of riding types. We have tested each one individually, as well as every combination you can create. 

Air springs provide a wide range of user adjustability, are very lightweight, and provide a progressive spring curve required for varying off-road terrain. The negative is that it comes at a cost of frequent maintenance, as well as inconsistent performance.

Coil Springs require changing springs out to adjust, but offer increases in small bump sensitivity due to the lack of compressed gas and sealing systems. They also provide a more desirable spring curve, are completely consistent, and require no maintenance. The negative is that it weighs more than air. By themselves they are also too linear in nature for a wide variety of off-road riding.

The PUSH Air Bump Stop offers a wide range of adjustability, is very lightweight, and provides a progressive spring curve. Because it is decoupled from the main spring, the system only provides support where needed deeper in the travel but has no effects for the first part, and mid travel of the fork. 

Hydraulic Bottoming Systems are very effective in providing bottom out protection at the end of the stroke. The negative is that they don't assist the forks performance until the very last few mm's of fork travel and are not adjustable. 

The reason for going with a coil spring and air bump stop system for us was simple....we ride bikes a lot. Not just here in Colorado, but all over the country and world. We've seen a lot of terrain, and understand the challenges of riders as we've met a significant amount of you over the years attending the different events. 

When you're riding something steep that transitions to a g-out at the bottom it's important to keep the fork higher in it's travel. This is done by having the spring get progressively stiffer, something a hydraulic bottoming cone cannot help with. 

Dropping of of a ledge and immediately having to get on the brakes hard to make a turn requires the fork to not dive excessively. Again, where the spring needs to support the riders mass that is in motion. This is another very common real world riding situation. 

Riding into the face of a jump or takeoff is the last place you want to having your fork feel like mush. Increasing low speed compression damping will help, but then the fork looses some of it's small bump sensitivity. Having a progressive spring system allows the fork to stay composed without using excessive compression damping. Again, this is an area a hydraulic bottoming cone doesn't' help. 

These are just a few of the very real world areas that I think nearly ever rider can relate to. These, and many more, are the reason why we didn't build a Hydraulic Bottoming System into our kit. If you have one will it hurt? Absolutely not. You'll able to huck-to-flat to your hearts content! 
If you don't have one do you need it with our ACS3? Nope, you can just simply add a few psi to the ABS unit with a standard shock pump.

Darren


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> This information is incorrect.
> 
> I mentioned this in a previous post but it's worth mentioning again. In this case I'm describing the systems used in the FOX 36 and PIKE as they are relevant. Other systems can be different.
> 
> ...


This is excellent information presented such that it is understandable and relatable to real world riding, by people who are not necessarily suspension engineers. And it's done without condescension. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Are people finding they're increasing LSC after switching to the ACS3?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Christopher Robin said:


> Are people finding they're increasing LSC after switching to the ACS3?


Absolutely you do if you are converting from from an air spring system. 
Me for example (weight 170 lbs) I needed to run my Float and Talas forks
with maybe only a couple a clicks of both HSC and LSC from fully open just to get the fork to feel smooth on fast bumps. I now can run both my forks with the recommenced settings that Push gives, 12 -14 clicks of HSC and 10 or so of LSC from closed. that is about that many from fully open, so right in the middle of adjustment.
Also I needed to use more rebound to over come the spring tension and the stiction that the air piston added but it's not excessive. 
It's pretty cool to finally have some damper adjustment range to play with!:thumbsup:


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

:thumbsup:


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Christopher Robin said:


> Are people finding they're increasing LSC after switching to the ACS3?


Yes. I mentioned this in one of my posts above. I've stiffened my LSC by several clicks since converting to ACS from stock. This helps prevent brake dive. With stock air, increasing LSC affected small bump chatter, but I detect none of that effect with ACS.


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## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Is everyone with the ACS-3 using the recommended Push SOS grease during installation? I’ve got a dozen different types of grease on hand, and access to more through work, if anyone can identify what the Push stuff actually is, or a suitable replacement. Thanks


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

nmxtrdr said:


> Is everyone with the ACS-3 using the recommended Push SOS grease during installation? I've got a dozen different types of grease on hand, and access to more through work, if anyone can identify what the Push stuff actually is, or a suitable replacement. Thanks


It's very similar to slick honey. There are a number of greases that will work, I would just stay away from something that is sticky, or viscous as it can cause drag.

Darren


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

nmxtrdr said:


> Is everyone with the ACS-3 using the recommended Push SOS grease during installation? I've got a dozen different types of grease on hand, and access to more through work, if anyone can identify what the Push stuff actually is, or a suitable replacement. Thanks


I used slick honey.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

To clear up some confusion.

I was under the understanding that when riders were referring to “Hydraulic Bottom Out” that they were referring only to the cup and cone system and not referring to the air spring ramp generated by the displaced oil in the damper leg of a fork with the open bath cartridge in my previous posts. It’s just a terminology thing. We refer to HBO as the cup and cone, and the air space as the air spring ramp….not HBO. Anyway, I apologize for the confusion as I misunderstood/misspoke. I thought people were lowering the damper side oil volume to eliminate the air volume effect and just using the cup/cone feature when they referred to HBO. In retrospect I should've realized that, or better yet, asked for clarification. In reading through I can understand that some riders may have thought I was generally speaking poorly of the AVY cartridge and that certainly isn’t how I meant to come off. My bad. 

As for our ACS3 kit, it was designed to work without any other spring influence. Our spring rates and bottoming system were designed to work seamlessly together and offer the rider easy external adjustment for varying terrain types. Going from more mellow terrain to say an area like Moab where you’re going to be smashing things? Just a couple of pumps with a standard shock pump and you’re good to go. If you live near a bike park and only use one bike for both trail and lift access days? Same thing, just simple adjustments to our ABS unit and you’re off. This is a key functionality of our product and part of the seamless system that we’ve built. 

In order to ensure optimum performance of our ACS3 kit as well as retain the external adjustability, we recommend using the stock sealed FIT damper for FOX forks, and Charger damper for RS forks. After installing our ACS3 kit nearly all riders will experience a large difference in range of adjustment as well as performance out of the stock damper due to the reduction in friction as well as the change in spring characteristic. We do understand that even so, not everyone fits the range of the stock FIT or Charger damper so we do offer custom tuning options for you on the FIT-4/RC2, and soon to be with the Charger upon release of our Rock Shox ACS3 kit in November. 

Darren


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Hey Darren, I hope you are still there to see this, and I will direct this post to other riders also. 
Who in the world rides a fork with only 15 to 20 percent sag other than XC racers, like Fox recommends! . I'm right in the middle of the recommended weight for the blue spring at 170lbs, but my sag was only 1 in. on a 6 in. fork. That's 16 % sag. I got bounced all over the place on a rough rooty trail due to fact the fork could follow the ground because the fork topped out all the time. I bought the orange spring and it gives me a 25% sag and rides so much better! I was ready to run more compression if needed and run the bump stop higher if needed but haven't needed to. I know you Darren correctly stated that Fox recommends that sag range for their AIR forks, but wouldn't a coil spring fork ride higher in the travel and be more supportive even if we ran 20 to 30 percent sag. Also with that little sag (15% with the blue spring) my bike's geo was off due to the fact I always over fork or run max fork height for my bikes and with that little sag it was like riding a 10 to 15 mm taller fork. Has other people with this kit ( I have 2) found the weight scale that Push recommend to be close for proper sag?

So I guess what I'm asking here is what fork sag are most of you people running?


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## bedell99 (Jan 5, 2007)

What length of fork was this fork and is 170lbs your riding weight?

Erik


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

blcman said:


> Hey Darren, I hope you are still there to see this, and I will direct this post to other riders also.
> Who in the world rides a fork with only 15 to 20 percent sag other than XC racers, like Fox recommends! . I'm right in the middle of the recommended weight for the blue spring at 170lbs, but my sag was only 1 in. on a 6 in. fork. That's 16 % sag. I got bounced all over the place on a rough rooty trail due to fact the fork could follow the ground because the fork topped out all the time. I bought the orange spring and it gives me a 25% sag and rides so much better! I was ready to run more compression if needed and run the bump stop higher if needed but haven't needed to. I know you Darren correctly stated that Fox recommends that sag range for their AIR forks, but wouldn't a coil spring fork ride higher in the travel and be more supportive even if we ran 20 to 30 percent sag. Also with that little sag (15% with the blue spring) my bike's geo was off due to the fact I always over fork or run max fork height for my bikes and with that little sag it was like riding a 10 to 15 mm taller fork. Has other people with this kit ( I have 2) found the weight scale that Push recommend to be close for proper sag?
> 
> So I guess what I'm asking here is what fork sag are most of you people running?


Where is your rebound set?
I personally pay little attention to my fork sag. I go by feel and check the oring after a hard ride. I am 180-185lbs and my kit came with the green spring and for my normal aggressive riding style I must say it is spot on. On my normal after work loop with lots of jumps and drops I keep the damper in the firm position and on my more XC rides in the full open. I usually have about 3/4"- 1" of unused travel after a hard ride. I prefer this and have it in reserve for the " OH SH!T" moments.

Just out of curiosity what damper are you using? Mine is the FIT4.
How are you setting fork sag, while sitting on the seat in the center of the bike? In the standing attack position with weight forward? IMHO, There are just too many variables to set the fork sag while sitting on the bike in the driveway.
I have heard others saying their forks feel over sprung after the PUSH conversion, so you are not alone. Perhaps it has something to do with the varied condition of damper and its abilities to perform. 
All I can say is PUSH was spot on with my set-up.


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

Anyone have any tips on how to keep the shrink wrap from migrating to the top of the coil?
I have the blue spring, and the shrink moves up the coil, causing it to rattle.
Any help is appreciated, thanks.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

Nels said:


> Anyone have any tips on how to keep the shrink wrap from migrating to the top of the coil?
> I have the blue spring, and the shrink moves up the coil, causing it to rattle.
> Any help is appreciated, thanks.


Maybe try hitting it with a hair dryer to see if it will shrink a little tighter.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

bedell99 said:


> What length of fork was this fork and is 170lbs your riding weight?
> 
> Erik


I have the 160 mm travel fork, so it's exactly in the middle of the weight scale.
It's on my HD3 and is at their recommended fork travel already and with only an inch of sag it handled really poorly due to fact that Ibis wants 28% sag in the rear. So if a person has the recommended rear sag of approximately 30% rear sag and only 15% in the front, well the bikes going to be really unbalanced and DOES ride like sh!t.

I'm now on the orange spring and getting 25% sag and the fork and bike rides and handles way better.

All I'm trying say and get at in these posts is that IMO the weight charts are on the high side and could be fined tuned as more people get these kits. 
The orange spring at 160 mm travel could easily go up to 175 lbs and run the bump stop psi in it's higher range and maybe a click or 2 of comp.

Just saying!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Hey Darren, I hope you are still there to see this, and I will direct this post to other riders also.
> Who in the world rides a fork with only 15 to 20 percent sag other than XC racers, like Fox recommends! . I'm right in the middle of the recommended weight for the blue spring at 170lbs, but my sag was only 1 in. on a 6 in. fork. That's 16 % sag. I got bounced all over the place on a rough rooty trail due to fact the fork could follow the ground because the fork topped out all the time. I bought the orange spring and it gives me a 25% sag and rides so much better! I was ready to run more compression if needed and run the bump stop higher if needed but haven't needed to. I know you Darren correctly stated that Fox recommends that sag range for their AIR forks, but wouldn't a coil spring fork ride higher in the travel and be more supportive even if we ran 20 to 30 percent sag. Also with that little sag (15% with the blue spring) my bike's geo was off due to the fact I always over fork or run max fork height for my bikes and with that little sag it was like riding a 10 to 15 mm taller fork. Has other people with this kit ( I have 2) found the weight scale that Push recommend to be close for proper sag?


While sag is certainly a good starting point, the overall performance of the fork is a much better indicator. This is mainly due to the variance in bike geometry and how it effects the loading of the front of the bike. Obviously our Spring Rate Guide is just that...a guide. Riding position on the bike, and more importantly, riding styles will have an effect as well. Overall, we're seeing that the vast majority of riders are on target with the recommendations. At the end of the day it's not a right or wrong thing, just preference. The fact that you went down in rate to achieve the results is all good!



> Anyone have any tips on how to keep the shrink wrap from migrating to the top of the coil?
> I have the blue spring, and the shrink moves up the coil, causing it to rattle.
> Any help is appreciated, thanks.


You can re-position the wrap and then just put a small drop of super glue on the coil to help keep it from migrating.

Darren


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

PUSHIND said:


> While sag is certainly a good starting point, the overall performance of the fork is a much better indicator. This is mainly due to the variance in bike geometry and how it effects the loading of the front of the bike. Obviously our Spring Rate Guide is just that...a guide. Riding position on the bike, and more importantly, riding styles will have an effect as well. Overall, we're seeing that the vast majority of riders are on target with the recommendations. At the end of the day it's not a right or wrong thing, just preference. The fact that you went down in rate to achieve the results is all good!
> 
> You can re-position the wrap and then just put a small drop of super glue on the coil to help keep it from migrating.
> 
> Darren


First off, thanks Darren for even bring this wonderful kit to the market.

You had called me when I had ordered my second kit and did ask me if the blue kit was good. I had been riding that bike at the bike park at the time and it was/is good for that, but for the trail riding on my other bike, not so much. So I take full responsibility for MY mistake! 

Also when we had talked I had asked about a spring kit for the Fox 40 and you said not going to happen. I don't know if you've beed to a bike park lately, but there are ALOT of Fox 40's that are screaming to have a spring put in them.:thumbsup:


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

Pike kit can't come quickly enough. Every time I see this thread bumped I hope its ready and I can get my wallet out  Really looking forward to trying it.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

saucerboy said:


> Pike kit can't come quickly enough. Every time I see this thread bumped I hope its ready and I can get my wallet out  Really looking forward to trying it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


That is exactly why i just checked this thread.........waiting........


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## kidwoo (Aug 11, 2004)

blcman said:


> Also when we had talked I had asked about a spring kit for the Fox 40 and you said not going to happen. I don't know if you've beed to a bike park lately, but there are ALOT of Fox 40's that are screaming to have a spring put in them.:thumbsup:


You can fit the old 2013ish spring setups in there. Plus fox still makes them for that performance line of 40s.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

While some people at PUSH have ridden the 140mm kit, I hadn't until today. 140mm coil up front and 130mm coil in the rear.....so much fun!

Well.....I tried several times to upload a short video from my Instagram without any luck....stupid technology!



> Also when we had talked I had asked about a spring kit for the Fox 40 and you said not going to happen. I don't know if you've beed to a bike park lately, but there are ALOT of Fox 40's that are screaming to have a spring put in them


We've received some requests....we'll have to wait and see!



> Pike kit can't come quickly enough. Every time I see this thread bumped I hope its ready and I can get my wallet out Really looking forward to trying it.





> That is exactly why i just checked this thread.........waiting........


We're over the half way point over in manufacturing on the PIKE stuff. It will be shipping in November for sure.

Darren


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

We're over the half way point over in manufacturing on the PIKE stuff. It will be shipping in November for sure.

Darren[/QUOTE]

Quite interested in the Pike kit. Potentially dumb question: I'm assuming it would be relatively easy for your typical bike shop to install?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

kidwoo said:


> You can fit the old 2013ish spring setups in there. Plus fox still makes them for that performance line of 40s.


Thanks for the info on this. I'll check with Fox about it but I wonder if it'll be more to it than just putting a coil in the air side. According to Darren, the Fox 36 Vanilla was more than a Float with a spring in it, meanig they had done something to the damper side for bottom out control. I'll check on it, but I'm still hoping that Push will do a Fox 40 kit!


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

PUSHIND said:


> While some people at PUSH have ridden the 140mm kit, I hadn't until today. 140mm coil up front and 130mm coil in the rear.....so much fun!
> 
> Well.....I tried several times to upload a short video from my Instagram without any luck....stupid technology!
> 
> ...


Hi Darren and all,

Thanks for the info given here. Got my 1st ride on the ACS3. It is really not just empty talk or exaggerated claims. ACS3 has indeed changed my fork for the best! Smooth, controlled, sensitive. Finally I can get all the 3 opposing characteristics I want in a fork at the same time. The difference is felt immediately. Am 83kg (183lb ride weight) and the green spring feels just nice. Used full travel on drops at 20psi, but no harsh bottom. Can't remember my LSC and LSR clicks now. But I am always on the open mode on the FIT4.

And no, am not a pro or on any bike company payroll. Self sponsored by curiosity on getting the best out of my bike.

Darren, managed to convince my friend who's on a 2015 Pike 160-140 dual air. Can the ACS3 work on his fork?

Anyway, managed to get my hands on a demo 11-6. Not immediately blown away as how the ACS3 did for me, but I guess I need to play more with the 11-6 clickers. 5 days left on my demo but I gotta work. Dammit!

With the 11-6 and ACS3 my bike is now 14.6kg (32lb). But surprised that I could clear all the technical climbs though I can feel the difference in weight.









Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## kidwoo (Aug 11, 2004)

blcman said:


> Thanks for the info on this. I'll check with Fox about it but I wonder if it'll be more to it than just putting a coil in the air side. According to Darren, the Fox 36 Vanilla was more than a Float with a spring in it, meanig they had done something to the damper side for bottom out control. I'll check on it, but I'm still hoping that Push will do a Fox 40 kit!


I know someone who's done it already. Fox did make a damper with what they called HBO (hydraulic bottom out) that I think they'd even abandoned the last few years. If you look at the parts list, they sell an NBO cartridge (non bottom out?) that looks like it was universal for coil and air. That 2014 year is the last of the coils and the one I have.

40mm Part Information | Bike Help Center | FOX

I don't doubt whatever darren comes up with will be a little more gucci but the parts are there if you want a coil now. Waiting on 'we might make that' can sometimes stretch out a while... from any manufacturer.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

He needs some more engineers so they can get on the new Enduro 11-6. I don't care how much the bike will end up weighing.

Some ACS-3 and custom Damper product testing this weekend at the Moab Ho-Down Enduro.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Streetdoctor said:


> He needs some more engineers so they can get on the new Enduro 11-6. I don't care how much the bike will end up weighing.
> 
> Some ACS-3 and custom Damper product testing this weekend at the Moab Ho-Down Enduro.
> View attachment 1164639


That could safely be called chunky.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## csm024 (Jul 1, 2011)

Streetdoctor said:


> He needs some more engineers so they can get on the new Enduro 11-6. I don't care how much the bike will end up weighing.
> 
> Some ACS-3 and custom Damper product testing this weekend at the Moab Ho-Down Enduro.
> View attachment 1164639


Streetdoctor, how does the ACS-3 compare to the Ohlins coil that came with the 2018 enduro? I think I saw somewhere on the Specialized forum that you replaced the Ohlins coil with the ACS-3 and I'm considering doing the same thing.

Also, does anyone else have experience with using the ACS-3 without getting the custom tune from Push? I was just going to drop in the system myself as I'm happy with the settings I currently have on my fox 36. Thanks.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

csm024 said:


> Streetdoctor, how does the ACS-3 compare to the Ohlins coil that came with the 2018 enduro? I think I saw somewhere on the Specialized forum that you replaced the Ohlins coil with the ACS-3 and I'm considering doing the same thing.
> 
> Also, does anyone else have experience with using the ACS-3 without getting the custom tune from Push? I was just going to drop in the system myself as I'm happy with the settings I currently have on my fox 36. Thanks.


I have been running the ACS-3 for about 10 rides now. I am about 185lbs and went with the green spring. It appears to be spot on. I DO NOT have custom tuning for the damper and dropped it in myself. It was really easy, took me about 40 min, taking my time. 
The end result is a much more compliant fork with a damper that reacts to every input. I was truly amazed at how good the FIT4 damper is after removing the air spring. At this point I could not be happier with the conversion. 
I usually run the damper in firm for the rough stuff and flip it to open for the more XC stuff. I have about 20 psi in the air bump stop and have only bottomed out completely once or twice. My normal ride consist of several 3'-5' drops mostly to flats.
I really don't think the custom tuning is necessary. The FIT4 really comes alive once the crappy air spring is gone.


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## csm024 (Jul 1, 2011)

CUP-TON said:


> I have been running the ACS-3 for about 10 rides now. I am about 185lbs and went with the green spring. It appears to be spot on. I DO NOT have custom tuning for the damper and dropped it in myself. It was really easy, took me about 40 min, taking my time.
> The end result is a much more compliant fork with a damper that reacts to every input. I was truly amazed at how good the FIT4 damper is after removing the air spring. At this point I could not be happier with the conversion.
> I usually run the damper in firm for the rough stuff and flip it to open for the more XC stuff. I have about 20 psi in the air bump stop and have only bottomed out completely once or twice. My normal ride consist of several 3'-5' drops mostly to flats.
> I really don't think the custom tuning is necessary. The FIT4 really comes alive once the crappy air spring is gone.


great feedback, thanks!


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

CUP-TON said:


> I have been running the ACS-3 for about 10 rides now. I am about 185lbs and went with the green spring. It appears to be spot on. I DO NOT have custom tuning for the damper and dropped it in myself. It was really easy, took me about 40 min, taking my time.
> The end result is a much more compliant fork with a damper that reacts to every input. I was truly amazed at how good the FIT4 damper is after removing the air spring. At this point I could not be happier with the conversion.
> I usually run the damper in firm for the rough stuff and flip it to open for the more XC stuff. I have about 20 psi in the air bump stop and have only bottomed out completely once or twice. My normal ride consist of several 3'-5' drops mostly to flats.
> I really don't think the custom tuning is necessary. The FIT4 really comes alive once the crappy air spring is gone.


What did you not like about the Ohlins coil? Just curious. I have a 36 w ACS but probably would have had an Ohlins at the time if they were available. I had Ohlins air and while the small bump lacked the damper was exceptional in the rough (until it broke and had to be warrantied several times). I couldn't be happier with the fox/ACS setup but would have thought the Ohlins coil would be the fork to beat.


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## csm024 (Jul 1, 2011)

jimarin said:


> What did you not like about the Ohlins coil? Just curious. I have a 36 w ACS but probably would have had an Ohlins at the time if they were available. I had Ohlins air and while the small bump lacked the damper was exceptional in the rough (until it broke and had to be warrantied several times). I couldn't be happier with the fox/ACS setup but would have thought the Ohlins coil would be the fork to beat.


My ohlins has some harshness that I haven't been able to tune out of it. I'm going to do a lower leg service and make sure it isn't low on oil or have another obvious issue, but the fork almost feels as if it has too much HSC (which isn't really adjustable on the 2018 fork - it has a 3 position switch for HSC that is similar to the climb switch on the fox 36 fit 4). As it stands now, the fox 36 fit 4 with air spring is more plush and more lively with the way I have it tuned.

I anticipated that the coil ohlins would reach similar levels of traction and plushness as the acs, but at least for me, it hasn't turned out that way.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

I had the Ohlins RXF36 Air shock, not coil. The Fox 36 RC2 stock is better, the Push conversion w/coil is even better.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Quite interested in the Pike kit. Potentially dumb question: I'm assuming it would be relatively easy for your typical bike shop to install?


Yes, much like the kit for the FOX there are no modifications necessary and only basic shop tools are required.



> Thanks for the info given here. Got my 1st ride on the ACS3. It is really not just empty talk or exaggerated claims. ACS3 has indeed changed my fork for the best! Smooth, controlled, sensitive. Finally I can get all the 3 opposing characteristics I want in a fork at the same time. The difference is felt immediately. Am 83kg (183lb ride weight) and the green spring feels just nice. Used full travel on drops at 20psi, but no harsh bottom. Can't remember my LSC and LSR clicks now. But I am always on the open mode on the FIT4.
> 
> And no, am not a pro or on any bike company payroll. Self sponsored by curiosity on getting the best out of my bike.
> 
> ...


Stoked you like the ACS3 kit! As for the demo ELEVENSIX, I will say that the Yeti frames due to their flatter leverage characteristic are more sensitive to spring rate and damping tune. Hopefully you have an optimized setting for testing.

The PIKE kit will retrofit into both Solo and Dual Air systems without any trouble. :thumbsup:



> He needs some more engineers so they can get on the new Enduro 11-6. I don't care how much the bike will end up weighing.
> 
> Some ACS-3 and custom Damper product testing this weekend at the Moab Ho-Down Enduro.


Certainly some proper proving grounds! :thumbsup:

Darren


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Darren, do you ship internationally?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

lagerboy said:


> Darren, do you ship internationally?


We do if you don't have a distributor in your country. I'm not the best one to answer those questions, but if you reach out to [email protected] they can provide the quickest and easiest route for purchasing as well as provide any shipping information necessary.

Darren


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## findbuddha (Jul 17, 2016)

I'm exceptionally happy with my ASC-3 conversion (Yeti 5.5, 2017 Fox 36).


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

What do you like about it?


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

lagerboy said:


> What do you like about it?


Basically, when compared to air spring... everything, except weight. It's slightly heavier. Other than performance, maintenance, but I actually enjoy rebuilding forks, I know weird.


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Thanks. Reason I was wondering is I bumped into a guy out on the trail who said it would be a waste of money for anything except enduro/DH riding. I take it you disagree? I ride mostly “trail” but am looking for more comfort/traction on high-speed, chunky sections.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

lagerboy said:


> Thanks. Reason I was wondering is I bumped into a guy out on the trail who said it would be a waste of money for anything except enduro/DH riding. I take it you disagree? I ride mostly "trail" but am looking for more comfort/traction on high-speed, chunky sections.


That guy is a clown. Think about it: You're climbing up a tech section where you have to keep your momentum going. Do you want an air fork where the wheel deflects and throws you around because it's not 100% smooth? Or do you want a fork that's super supple at the beginning of travel that your wheel just tracks over these obstacles letting you have an easier time climbing?


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Christopher Robin said:


> That guy is a clown. Think about it: You're climbing up a tech section where you have to keep your momentum going. Do you want an air fork where the wheel deflects and throws you around because it's not 100% smooth? Or do you want a fork that's super supple at the beginning of travel that your wheel just tracks over these obstacles letting you have an easier time climbing?


Well said - you've removed any doubt I might have had.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Christopher Robin said:


> That guy is a clown. Think about it: You're climbing up a tech section where you have to keep your momentum going. Do you want an air fork where the wheel deflects and throws you around because it's not 100% smooth? Or do you want a fork that's super supple at the beginning of travel that your wheel just tracks over these obstacles letting you have an easier time climbing?


Ha! Agree.

Clowns like that are the reason long travel forks still have "lock out" settings.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

lagerboy said:


> Thanks. Reason I was wondering is I bumped into a guy out on the trail who said it would be a waste of money for anything except enduro/DH riding. I take it you disagree? I ride mostly "trail" but am looking for more comfort/traction on high-speed, chunky sections.


I hate it when people say this. They say this at shops, on the trail, they even say it at car dealerships: Well, you don't want the sport suspension, that's ONLY if you are going to be tracking the car. That line may apply to something like a ZL1 1LE or Porsche 911 GT3/RSR, but they try to apply it to cars that are not at that extreme end of the performance spectrum, and it DOESN'T APPLY when you are not looking at that extreme end. You just want suspension that works well for what you do. You don't need to be a DHer to have good suspension, to have stable low speed compression and high speed that sucks up all the square edged bumps. You don't need to be a DHer to benefit from being able to tune the LSC/HSC LSR/HSR. That mindset is total b******t. Coil does have some benefits for movement and spring rate, it doesn't apply just to DHers.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

I can tell you when I finally felt my Fox 36 RC2 started feeling decent, and that's when I went to the coil spring. I've had my damper worked on and I've had upgrades done to my air spring. The coil upgrade was by far the best thing I could do. Which is infuriating because we had forks like this a decade ago.


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## BC (Jan 11, 2006)

Christopher Robin said:


> I. Which is infuriating because we had forks like this a decade ago.


Nailed It !.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

haven't been on anything but Marzocchi coils since i went fs in 2001. 

Marz 4, Z1 Light, RC3 55 Ti

real shame Marz caved


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Christopher Robin said:


> I can tell you when I finally felt my Fox 36 RC2 started feeling decent, and that's when I went to the coil spring. I've had my damper worked on and I've had upgrades done to my air spring. The coil upgrade was by far the best thing I could do. Which is infuriating because we had forks like this a decade ago.


About the time that Fox and Rockshox put weight above everything else. A good airspring can be wonderful (Manitou and DVO)when set up correctly, but a coil is easier to set up, requires less maintenance (and is easier to service), and always works consistently. The downside is weight, but it seems people are finally willing to focus on ride quality and performance instead of the lightest bike possible.

Anyone want to bet Fox reintroduces the Vanilla fork next year. I ran a 2013 Vanilla 180 RC2 for a couple of years. What a great fork. Heavy, but great.


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

Anyone using the Grey springs notice that you had to preload the spring a bit to get the top cap threaded on? During the driveway test tonight, they feel very stiff and ride high in the travel, but I'll hold my judgement until after a ride.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Christopher Robin said:


> I can tell you when I finally felt my Fox 36 RC2 started feeling decent, and that's when I went to the coil spring. I've had my damper worked on and I've had upgrades done to my air spring. The coil upgrade was by far the best thing I could do. Which is infuriating because we had forks like this a decade ago.


Well, the damping sucked a decade ago, when it didn't, the chassis was poor, like fox with piss poor seals/lubrication. A few forks had the coil and the damping, but it was only on a few products that came close to bringing it all together.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

oakhills said:


> Anyone using the Grey springs notice that you had to preload the spring a bit to get the top cap threaded on? During the driveway test tonight, they feel very stiff and ride high in the travel, but I'll hold my judgement until after a ride.


Yes, that's normal.

Darren


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, the damping sucked a decade ago, when it didn't, the chassis was poor, like fox with piss poor seals/lubrication. A few forks had the coil and the damping, but it was only on a few products that came close to bringing it all together.


Maybe I over simplified and should have said this about Fox specifically. My 2009 or 2010 Fox 36 Van was just as smooth and stiff as my current 36. Mind you, I had an Avalanche cartridge in there.


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Yes, that's normal.
> 
> Darren


Thank you Darren!

I have to comment on how smooth the upgrade is. The downhill trails I ride are pretty beat up, stutter bumps, rocks, etc. I thought I had the Float 36 160 set up pretty well for my needs, but.... with the ACS system, the chatter bumps and rocks are muted, and surprisingly I could see the trail ahead much clearer because of the small bump compliance and lower friction seals the system over the stock Float setup. My eyes were able to see way better, almost like having a gimbal on my head.

If anyone needs to convince the wife, tell her it's a safety issue as you'll have better control and see ahead better thus avoiding a potential crash;-)

I did order the ACS 3 with the grey spring for my weight (225 geared), I felt it a bit over sprung for my riding style and trails here in Oakland, so I'll go down to the black coil and try that. I can see the grey spring great for riding trails with bigger drops and jumps for my weight class, so I'll keep if and swap out when I go to places like Santa Cruz or Pacifica.

Overall a first class product!


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Christopher Robin said:


> Maybe I over simplified and should have said this about Fox specifically. My 2009 or 2010 Fox 36 Van was just as smooth and stiff as my current 36. Mind you, I had an Avalanche cartridge in there.


pre 2010 had the burlier chassis for sure...at least the csu/crown...straight 1.5" was kind of a "lame duck" though


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## Druster (Jul 5, 2016)

Anyone else noticed the thread name is incorrect? 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Druster said:


> Anyone else noticed the thread name is incorrect?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


please don't make fun of my dyslexia


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Any ETA on this kit for the Pike?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> please don't make fun of my dyslexia


WOW he wasn't and how is he meant to know you are dyslexic? He was simply saying the thread title is misspelt. No need for that reply.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Rick Draper said:


> WOW he wasn't and how is he meant to know you are dyslexic? He was simply saying the thread title is misspelt. No need for that reply.


My attempt at being "cheeky" fell flat. I am aware of my typo and have asked the moderator to edit it


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

ncfisherman said:


> Any ETA on this kit for the Pike?


Pre-ordering will be available this coming week for both PIKE and Lyrik.

Darren


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> Pre-ordering will be available this coming week for both PIKE and Lyrik.
> 
> Darren


Darren, just wanted to confirm, there will be a kit for the Lyrik? Early on it was said no plans for Lyrik.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

xhailofgunfirex said:


> Darren, just wanted to confirm, there will be a kit for the Lyrik? Early on it was said no plans for Lyrik.


Lyrik is coming.....Surprise!:thumbsup: One of engineers here at PUSH had another look and went to work on prototypes a while ago. I still didn't want to say anything in the event that it ultimately didn't work out, but now we're completed with production, so we're more than good to go.

Darren


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

And this whole time I thought it wasn't going to happen! Something to look forward to!

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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Good stuff. Thanks for the update, Darren.


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> Lyrik is coming.....Surprise!:thumbsup: One of engineers here at PUSH had another look and went to work on prototypes a while ago. I still didn't want to say anything in the event that it ultimately didn't work out, but now we're completed with production, so we're more than good to go.
> 
> Darren


Props to your engineer! Super stoked right now, thanks for the update.


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## rj9294 (Sep 1, 2011)

Does this mean Yari?


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Lyrik is coming.....Surprise!:thumbsup: One of engineers here at PUSH had another look and went to work on prototypes a while ago. I still didn't want to say anything in the event that it ultimately didn't work out, but now we're completed with production, so we're more than good to go.
> 
> Darren


Good surprise!


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> My attempt at being "cheeky" fell flat. I am aware of my typo and have asked the moderator to edit it


I phixed it, I'm nott much of a spellar miself.


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## icantride (Oct 21, 2016)

PUSHIND said:


> Lyrik is coming.....Surprise!:thumbsup: One of engineers here at PUSH had another look and went to work on prototypes a while ago. I still didn't want to say anything in the event that it ultimately didn't work out, but now we're completed with production, so we're more than good to go.
> 
> Darren


Holy **** that's great news, here was me thinking I'd need to save up £1000+ for a Fox 36, or an Ohlins RXF36 coil


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## TwistdSpokes (Aug 11, 2009)

This kit has transformed my Fox 36/160 into everything I wanted it to be and more. The small bump sensitivity is amazing and the mid-stroke support is right where I want it to be. It also rides high in the travel like I want it to and provides the support and sensitivity that the bike feels as if its floating over rough terrain. I felt like the bike climbed better, especially on technical obstacles as it just seemed to stay planted. The cornering capabilities were also greatly noticeable, the front just dug in and stuck like glue. Just all around the bike felt transformed on the front end, at times i literally felt like i was floating.

The air spring I was always fighting sensitivity and support to get the right balance and was constantly tweaking damper and air settings ride to ride - now I feel like I can have both and just get on it and ride.

I still have to mess with the air bump stop some, I set it at 20psi and left a good bit of travel on the table on the first ride - I figure 15 psi will be perfect and still leave me the last bit of travel for those "OH ****!" moments. I am on the black spring, which makes zero noise inside the stanchion tube. 

Before I pulled the stock air spring out completely I moved the air shaft with my hands to get a feel for the stiction before and after, it is night and day on the amount of stiction the air shaft causes vs coil setup. I had also just rebuilt the air spring about a month ago and only had a few rides on it so it was freshly lubricated.

Just a great product by Push, glad I made the switch and not worried about ever going back to air. Never even felt a difference in weight, the performance outweighs the small increase by a large margin.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Darren, what travel options will the RS conversions be offered in?


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

I was in the middle of getting rid of my lyric for a new 36 with this kit. Now should I stick with my lyric and this kit or upgrade to fox 36?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

SyT said:


> Darren, what travel options will the RS conversions be offered in?


Currently 140-160mm for Pike, and 140-170mm for Lyrik.

They launched on the site today:

https://www.pushindustries.com/pages/acs-fork-models

Darren


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> Currently 140-160mm for Pike, and 140-170mm for Lyrik.
> 
> They launched on the site today:
> 
> ...


Psyched. Just pre-ordered for the pike.

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## alan1 (Mar 22, 2007)

PUSHIND said:


> Currently 140-160mm for Pike, and 140-170mm for Lyrik.
> 
> They launched on the site today:
> 
> ...


Darren do you have any experience with the Lyric RC Damper? I am tempted with the conversion but not sure if the RC damper will hold it back,

Cheers
Alan


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Hi !

That's good news. Will the kit work on a dual pos Lyrik, or on solo air models only ?

Cheers


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

evildos said:


> Hi !
> 
> That's good news. Will the kit work on a dual pos Lyrik, or on solo air models only ?
> 
> Cheers


Everything on the left side gets replaced with the spring kit.
There's no more DP or solo air left. Same with Fox, no more Float air spring or Talas if you have it.:thumbsup:


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Jaysrubi said:


> I was in the middle of getting rid of my lyric for a new 36 with this kit. Now should I stick with my lyric and this kit or upgrade to fox 36?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm in a similar boat. However I think I'd like an Avalanche cartridge so then it's just comparing fork chassis. The fox is a little stiffer but that's not a game changer for me. I have the impression that the Fox RC2 is a better damper than the charger but I got the Lyrik for better small bump sensitivity. Now with the spring I'd rather have a 36. Then if I step up to aftermarket damping I don't think there will be a big difference. However until I ride the Lyrik with the spring I won't know if I still want the Avy cartridge upgrade.
I have the Lyrik and don't plan to spend the cash for a 36 only to replace both the spring and damper for an extra $800.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Psyched. Just pre-ordered for the pike.


:thumbsup:



> hat's good news. Will the kit work on a dual pos Lyrik, or on solo air models only ?


Kit will work in Solo or Dual Position forks.



> I'm in a similar boat. However I think I'd like an Avalanche cartridge so then it's just comparing fork chassis. The fox is a little stiffer but that's not a game changer for me. I have the impression that the Fox RC2 is a better damper than the charger but I got the Lyrik for better small bump sensitivity. Now with the spring I'd rather have a 36. Then if I step up to aftermarket damping I don't think there will be a big difference. However until I ride the Lyrik with the spring I won't know if I still want the Avy cartridge upgrade.
> I have the Lyrik and don't plan to spend the cash for a 36 only to replace both the spring and damper for an extra $800.


The ACS3 kit was only designed to work with the Charger, RC2, FIT-4, and GRIP dampers as they are sealed systems and only give a slight spring effect from the bladder expansion. Much like our current tuning options for FOX damping cartridges, we will be offering performance tuning for the Charger systems.

We also are currently having an internal discussion revolving around offering cartridge tuning as an independent service for riders who want to do the fork service and ACS3 installations at home DIY style. This would involve riders sending in their damping cartridge to which we would perform a complete rebuild and revalve, and then send it back ready to drop in. Any interest?

Darren


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> Kit will work in Solo or Dual Position forks.
> 
> The ACS3 kit was only designed to work with the Charger, RC2, FIT-4, and GRIP dampers as they are sealed systems and only give a slight spring effect from the bladder expansion. Much like our current tuning options for FOX damping cartridges, we will be offering performance tuning for the Charger systems.
> 
> ...


I have just pre-ordered a pike kit.
I already have an Avy open bath in there (no ABS option)
So, you don't recommend this combo?
Should I cancel the ACS3 order?

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## r34 gtr (Aug 10, 2011)

Hi - are the size of the kits (eg:160mm) the same for both 27.5 and 29 forks? I’m after 160mm 29er...
Cheers


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## EnglishGent (May 20, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> We also are currently having an internal discussion revolving around offering cartridge tuning as an independent service for riders who want to do the fork service and ACS3 installations at home DIY style. This would involve riders sending in their damping cartridge to which we would perform a complete rebuild and revalve, and then send it back ready to drop in. Any interest?
> 
> Darren


I'm definitely interested in that Darren 

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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

PUSHIND said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Kit will work in Solo or Dual Position forks.
> 
> ...


Yes. Maybe with a spring for a 34.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## shaft (Oct 6, 2004)

I'm interested as well.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I have just pre-ordered a pike kit.
> I already have an Avy open bath in there (no ABS option)
> So, you don't recommend this combo?
> Should I cancel the ACS3 order?


It's not ideal as the stock Charger damper.

Darren


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

jazzanova said:


> I have just pre-ordered a pike kit.
> I already have an Avy open bath in there (no ABS option)
> So, you don't recommend this combo?
> Should I cancel the ACS3 order?
> ...


I have the ACS-3 with a avy kit on my 36. Works fantastic. I don't think you'll have any issues. Craig said the only issue he can see is the air bump stop may affect damping on the last third of the travel. Having the air bump stop enabled feels fine to me but because I have the ABS option on my avy, I went with running 0 psi in the push bump stop and let the ABS do the bottom out control as my final setup. My weight is towards the end of Push's blue spring and Craig recommended going with the Green as he felt due to Push having the air bump stop, they went a little light on their spring selection for plushness/small bump sensitivity.

I think Darren is getting at the air in the open bath setups, such as avy, will act like a "air spring" along side the ACS-3. That may be true but it's still miles better than the ACS-3 with the FIT-4 damper.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Samuel0073 said:


> I have the ACS-3 with a avy kit on my 36. Works fantastic. I don't think you'll have any issues. Craig said the only issue he can see is the air bump stop may affect damping on the last third of the travel. Having the air bump stop enabled feels fine to me but because I have the ABS option on my avy, I went with running 0 psi in the push bump stop and let the ABS do the bottom out control as my final setup. My weight is towards the end of Push's blue spring and Craig recommended going with the Green as he felt due to Push having the air bump stop, they went a little light on their spring selection for plushness/small bump sensitivity.
> 
> I think Darren is getting at the air in the open bath setups, such as avy, will act like a "air spring" along side the ACS-3. That may be true but it's still miles better than the ACS-3 with the FIT-4 damper.


We definitely didn't go light on our spring recommendations due to the air bump stop so Craig recommending going stiffer isn't a good idea.

Darren


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

seems like the AV preset HS circuits would be a real problem since they're not externally adjustable, & not user friendly to change


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey Darren. Just ordered the ACS3 for a pike. My pike has the fast damper system. Will this work with the coil kit?


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> It's not ideal as the stock Charger damper.
> 
> Darren


I'm in the same position. AVY damper in my pike and pre-ordered your kit. Do you have a sense of how not ideal we're talking?

I still have my charger damper which I could reinstall. If that's the route I'd need to go though I might just get a fox 36 instead and get the coil kit for it.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

I apologize if I missed this but is the Yari an option? It has the same chassis as the Lyrik, correct?

I read a post from PUSH saying that the Yari's motion control damper was not in the design parameters due to the air spring effect on the damper side. However, couldn't you just run a bit less air in the bump stop?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Kit will work in Solo or Dual Position forks.
> 
> ...


Interested! I was just about to install a Luftkappe in my Lyrik and sending my Lyrik off to Vorsprung to upgrade the Charger Damper. The solo air Lyrik is ok and better than the Pike I had but the reasoning being to increase oil flow (blow-off/re-circ) to make the fork more compliant on repetitive square edged hits and presumably with more oil-flow for blow-off and recovery, allowing the fork to ride higher in it's travel.

Been doing some enduro racing (old guy class) but at least the ones I've done for the most part every segment is a downhill sprint. I'm looking to fly over the chunk easier on the hands and having a front end that tracks better. But most importantly, without losing pedaling efficiency. My biggest fear is clipping a pedal and flying over the bars and hitting a tree or whatever but you're always pedaling. Got an 11-6 on the back and that is the bomb.


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

mmanuel09 said:


> Hey Darren. Just ordered the ACS3 for a pike. My pike has the fast damper system. Will this work with the coil kit?


My 160mm pike also has the Fast damper upgrade, and am now looking at the ACS3 as I am not 100% happy with the luftkappe I have installed in the air side, nice small bump but way to progressive for my 70kg weight.

I would also like to know Darren's thoughts on the Fast with coil.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Yup,
how not ideal are we talking about?
And what the main disadvantage would be?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Hey Darren. Just ordered the ACS3 for a pike. My pike has the fast damper system. Will this work with the coil kit?


If it's the FAST Charger upgrade then it's not an issue, but the CO3 open bath would also not be recommended.



> I'm in the same position. AVY damper in my pike and pre-ordered your kit. Do you have a sense of how not ideal we're talking?
> 
> I still have my charger damper which I could reinstall. If that's the route I'd need to go though I might just get a fox 36 instead and get the coil kit for it.





> Yup,
> how not ideal are we talking about?
> And what the main disadvantage would be?


Our system is designed to work with the large air space found in the damper leg of the fork with the stock sealed cartridge. An open bath cartridge dramatically changes the available air space in the damper leg to the point where it has a large effect on the total spring curve. This works well in an air sprung fork due to the fact that it helps "level out" the air hammock effect from modern positive/negative air systems.

The benefit of the ACS3 system is that the coil spring and air spring systems are decoupled from each other and can be adjusted independently from each other. This provides riders with the most small bump sensitivity and traction, while at the same time eliminating the "air hammock" effect of the typical air systems. In addition you can adjust your preferred level of bottoming control independently without taking away any of that small bump sensitivity or traction that the coil system provides. The extra bonus is that this is done externally without the need to disassemble your fork in any way.

Darren


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

PUSHIND said:


> If it's the FAST Charger upgrade then it's not an issue, but the CO3 open bath would also not be recommended.
> 
> Our system is designed to work with the large air space found in the damper leg of the fork with the stock sealed cartridge. An open bath cartridge dramatically changes the available air space in the damper leg to the point where it has a large effect on the total spring curve. This works well in an air sprung fork due to the fact that it helps "level out" the air hammock effect from modern positive/negative air systems.
> 
> ...


Yari? Is Motion Control an open bath?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

titusquasi said:


> Yari? Is Motion Control an open bath?


The Yari uses a MoCo damper which is sealed in the inner tube of the fork and works off of very low rod displacement giving it minimal spring effect.

Darren


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

I pre-ordered the kit for the Lyrik. I'd definitely be interested in the damper tuning service and installing myself!


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

xhailofgunfirex said:


> I pre-ordered the kit for the Lyrik. I'd definitely be interested in the damper tuning service and installing myself!


Yeah, let's hear more about that!


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## Gobstopper (Sep 22, 2009)

Darren, I've heard you describe the air spring hammock effect in a few places and posts. I think I understand this but can you further elaborate on this effect and how the acs is overcoming? Thanks!


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Very interested in the spring/damper tune combo for the Lyrik, as I'm on the lighter end of the spectrum.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Gobstopper said:


> Darren, I've heard you describe the air spring hammock effect in a few places and posts. I think I understand this but can you further elaborate on this effect and how the acs is overcoming? Thanks!


This is my understanding (which means I could be entirely wrong):

Think about the two sides of the fork independently. Lets start with the spring side. With the air spring, you always have a certain amount of initial break away friction. Larger negative chambers help minimize this, but it is always there. As a result, even the most linear air spring will always be weaker in the midstroke than a coil which is perfectly linear (assuming a linear rate coil, which all are in bikes). The result is all air springs have a u shaped (hammock) curve, no matter how slight it may be. Positive air volume on the spring side can be changed to effect the ramp up of the spring towards the end of the travel (usually a bit more than 1/2 way to bottom).

With a coil spring, you have a perfectly linear rate, but do get a little ramp up from the decrease in air volume as the fork compresses. This is minimal however, as the coil takes up little space in the fork leg so the compression ratio is slight. A coil sprung fork, without a damper designed around its linear rate will tend to bottom harshly and frequently.

What Push has done is take the coil and added an air cartridge. By doing this, they are able to limit the effect of the air spring portion to the end of travel and control the ramp up of the spring rate at the end of the travel with the air cartridge. This works differently than if you have a coil with an air supplement (ala Marzocchi or many motorcycles) as pressurizing the entire fork leg affects the entire travel range (and because of the large air volume requires enough starting pressure to significantly effect beginning travel to have enough air effect to control bottom out). In short, the traditional air supplement negates a great deal of the benefit of a coil.

So far we are just taking about the spring side of the fork. Now lets look at the damper side. Despite the fact that the damper side does not have an air valve. the damper side still has an air volume that compresses as the fork goes into its travel. It starts at 0psi and ramps up based on the amount of space taken up by damper and effects the overall spring rate. Modern cartridge dampers used in forks take up much less space in the leg than open bath dampers, so their effect on ending spring rate is minimal. Open bath dampers take up a large volume so their effect on ending spring rate is significant. Historically with open dampers, this ramp up is tuned by changing the oil level to control bottoming with a coil fork.

So now where the real confusion probably lies. We are converting the air fork to a coil, right? So an Avalanche open bath damper should work great with the coil, right? The issue is that Push has designed their coil conversion around a cartridge damper (and presumably the stock fox tune) by using the cartridge air spring in combination with the coil, which controls bottoming. Switch that cartridge damper to an open damper and you now not only have Push's air cartridge on the spring side controlling bottoming, but also the damper side air ramp up of an open bath (and if you have the ABS option on the Avalanche Cartridge, that also). You end up with a fork that has huge ramp up and won't perform well.

Push and Avalanche both make great products, but also have different approaches (as there is no single correct answer). Here, Push has designed a spring that is made to work with a cartridge damper. Avalanche by contrast has tuned its open bath damper to work with the stock fox air spring. Both make improvements individually, but combined do not work well as they are not compatible. If Push had instead had just slapped a coil in air spring side, the Avalanche damper would work great, especially when tuned for the coil, but then the Push conversion would not work well with the stock cartridge damper, which is what their conversion kit is designed for.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Darren, I've heard you describe the air spring hammock effect in a few places and posts. I think I understand this but can you further elaborate on this effect and how the acs is overcoming? Thanks!


Below is an overlay of a FOX36 Air spring curve, and a coil spring reflecting what we refer to as the "air hammock". For simplicity, this model does not include our Air Bump Stop Unit.









Darren


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ignore, double post. I don't know how to use a computer.


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

I was pretty happy to see the Lyric included which seems like a great move for Push since so many people are buying bikes spec'd with a lyric and will probably want the upgrade.

I called PUSH yesterday and as so frequently happens Darrin answered and was extremely helpful. I have purchased 2 11-6 so far and it is that kind of service that makes me come back. I look forward to getting the coil in my lyric becasue so far i cant get it to feel right.


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## Gobstopper (Sep 22, 2009)

Good information. This might explain why I'm having to run incredibly high pressures to get the mid-stroke to feel strong enough. At 210 lbs, I'm running close to 120 in my 2018 36 FIT4.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

Cary said:


> This is my understanding (which means I could be entirely wrong):
> 
> Think about the two sides of the fork independently. Lets start with the spring side. With the air spring, you always have a certain amount of initial break away friction. Larger negative chambers help minimize this, but it is always there. As a result, even the most linear air spring will always be weaker in the midstroke than a coil which is perfectly linear (assuming a linear rate coil, which all are in bikes). The result is all air springs have a u shaped (hammock) curve, no matter how slight it may be. Positive air volume on the spring side can be changed to effect the ramp up of the spring towards the end of the travel (usually a bit more than 1/2 way to bottom).
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree with the part about the Avy open bath air ramp up, ABS option, and Push's air bump stop makes for a terrible fork as too many things are working for the same thing. I just want to add, for those who have the Avy damper and is wondering, you can disable Push's air bump stop and Avy's ABS unit very easily. I have both and again, I've disabled Push's air bump stop and am relying on the air ramp up of the open bath damper with the ABS option as a final bottom out control. The ABS on the Avy damper has 3 settings for when it engages as well. Mine is set at the last setting so it only engages at the last few MM. Those who don't have the ABS option can utilize Push's air bump stop. In theory, it's a horribly setup but it feels great out in the field as you can "TUNE" the air bump stop. I can tell you that ACS-3 + FIT4 stock is no where near as good as ACS-3 + Avy. Can't say how ACS-3 + FIT4 PUSH Tune feels but I went with Avy because of the maintenance interval. If you don't mind sending your fork in every year at $179 a pop with downtime, the ACS-3 + PUSH tune is a very good option as I've heard nothing but great things about the Push tune. I'm no suspension expert. Just merely reporting on what I'm observing with the setup I have as some folks are looking to go the route I did.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> If it's the FAST Charger upgrade then it's not an issue, but the CO3 open bath would also not be recommended.
> 
> Our system is designed to work with the large air space found in the damper leg of the fork with the stock sealed cartridge. An open bath cartridge dramatically changes the available air space in the damper leg to the point where it has a large effect on the total spring curve. This works well in an air sprung fork due to the fact that it helps "level out" the air hammock effect from modern positive/negative air systems.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation regarding the damper leg air volume effect. I wasn't aware of the volume difference from the stock cartridge to the open bath Avy damper or the role it played.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Samuel0073 said:


> Yes, I agree with the part about the Avy open bath air ramp up, ABS option, and Push's air bump stop makes for a terrible fork as too many things are working for the same thing. I just want to add, for those who have the Avy damper and is wondering, you can disable Push's air bump stop and Avy's ABS unit very easily. I have both and again, I've disabled Push's air bump stop and am relying on the air ramp up of the open bath damper with the ABS option as a final bottom out control. """The ABS on the Avy damper has 3 settings for when it engages as well. Mine is set at the last setting so it only engages at the last few MM. """ Those who don't have the ABS option can utilize Push's air bump stop. In theory, it's a horribly setup but it feels great out in the field as you can "TUNE" the air bump stop. I can tell you that ACS-3 + FIT4 stock is no where near as good as ACS-3 + Avy. Can't say how ACS-3 + FIT4 PUSH Tune feels but I went with Avy because of the maintenance interval. If you don't mind sending your fork in every year at $179 a pop with downtime, the ACS-3 + PUSH tune is a very good option as I've heard nothing but great things about the Push tune. I'm no suspension expert. Just merely reporting on what I'm observing with the setup I have as some folks are looking to go the route I did.


i've got the the ABS & would like to know how you disable it. never seen that on the AV site


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

nhodge said:


> i've got the the ABS & would like to know how you disable it. never seen that on the AV site


Just remove the oil lock ring assembly.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

nhodge said:


> i've got the the ABS & would like to know how you disable it. never seen that on the AV site





crseekins said:


> Just remove the oil lock ring assembly.


From the man himself. If you need additional information on how to remove, let me know. I can put together some images or something.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

actually, i'd be more interested in the shim stack schedule of my Marz 55 fork for a 6.0 Nm spring compared to the 7.2 that you tuned mine for.


crseekins said:


> Just remove the oil lock ring assembly.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

crseekins said:


> Just remove the oil lock ring assembly.


Craig, what do you think about pairing the open bath cartridge with the push coil?

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

crseekins said:


> Just remove the oil lock ring assembly.


This is what I've been thinking all along, can't get any simpler than that.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jazzanova said:


> Craig, what do you think about pairing the open bath cartridge with the push coil?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


How complicated is a spring? Sheesh, we did this all over the place back in the 2000s and we didn't die, I used the Avy cart with a coil spring, it's magic. Do it. It's not that complicated.


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## titusquasi (Jan 5, 2006)

_The Yari uses a MoCo damper which is sealed in the inner tube of the fork and works off of very low rod displacement giving it minimal spring effect.

Darren_

Ok. That sounds like the MoCo in the Yari should play nice with the coil conversion...correct?

Why is the Yari not being listed and mentioned as an option? Am I missing something?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

I'm not sure why this is turning into such a large discussion. If you want your ACS3 kit to perform the way that we designed it to, we're simply recommending installing it with the factory damper. This package offers the widest range of adjustment for varying terrain, best performance from the spring system, and the lightest weight. 

If you're looking for an increase in performance from your damper side, we have a new service for $125 where you can send us your FIT, RC2, or Charger damper separately from your fork and we will give it a complete overhaul, install our tuning components, and revalve it based on rider weight, riding style, and the bike it's going on. 

If you choose to run an aftermarket damper, you will loose the adjustability of the kit, and will be adding additional weight to the fork. If you already have an aftermarket damper can you install the ACS3 kit....yes. You will still get some of the benefits of the coil vs air spring. 

Darren


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## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> I'm not sure why this is turning into such a large discussion


Because mtbr.

Having owned an Avy'd Fox 36 coil, and now the Push ACS-3 with stock RC2 damper, I can absolutely confirm what Darren is saying. The ACS-3 with stock damper beats the coil sprung Avalanche damper in every regard. No contest.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Push now offerering custom tuning on the charger damper is exciting news given the fact that they haven't touched RS products in years. Win win for the Lyrik and Pike fans.


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> I'm not sure why this is turning into such a large discussion. If you want your ACS3 kit to perform the way that we designed it to, we're simply recommending installing it with the factory damper. This package offers the widest range of adjustment for varying terrain, best performance from the spring system, and the lightest weight.
> 
> If you're looking for an increase in performance from your damper side, we have a new service for $125 where you can send us your FIT, RC2, or Charger damper separately from your fork and we will give it a complete overhaul, install our tuning components, and revalve it based on rider weight, riding style, and the bike it's going on.
> 
> ...


Darren when will the damper tuning service be available? I'd like to send mine in ASAP so I can have both the Lyrik ASC3 and tuning done at the same time.


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

nmxtrdr said:


> Because mtbr.
> 
> Having owned an Avy'd Fox 36 coil, and now the Push ACS-3 with stock RC2 damper, I can absolutely confirm what Darren is saying. The ACS-3 with stock damper beats the coil sprung Avalanche damper in every regard. No contest.


Not sure how reinvented spring kits changes anything about what we offer here at Avalanche. We have been setting up and installing our cartridge in almost every sort of spring system for over 15 years now. We have achieved a significant performance gains over the stock damper systems with coil forks with no air ramp up (Fox40, Fox36 van), coil forks with air over oil (Marzocchi 888 35mm, Avalanche DHF-8), Fox Float with negative coil systems (early Fox 34 and Fox 36 Floats), equalizing air negative systems (Fox Float and Rockshox Pike, Yari and Lyriks) and air assited coils with air preload (Marzocchi 55 and 44). Each of these spring systems require a specific tune to adjust for the spring rate differences but are well within our tuning range, as is the new coil conversion kits that TF tuned and Push are offering. The performance gain is limited to the spring quality and inherent design limitations of the spring system, so our damper improvements that we focus on here are limited to your spring design options.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

crseekins said:


> Not sure how reinvented spring kits changes anything about what we offer here at Avalanche. We have been setting up and installing our cartridge in almost every sort of spring system for over 15 years now. We have achieved a significant performance gains over the stock damper systems with coil forks with no air ramp up (Fox40, Fox36 van), coil forks with air over oil (Marzocchi 888 35mm, Avalanche DHF-8), Fox Float with negative coil systems (early Fox 34 and Fox 36 Floats), equalizing air negative systems (Fox Float and Rockshox Pike, Yari and Lyriks)
> 
> _***_and air assited coils with air preload (Marzocchi 55 and 44). Each of these _""_spring systems require a specific tune to adjust for the spring rate differences!!! ***
> 
> but are well within our tuning range, as is the new coil conversion kits that TF tuned and Push are offering. The performance gain is limited to the spring quality and inherent design limitations of the spring system, so our damper improvements that we focus on here are limited to your spring design options.


there it is. what i've been saying about my specific Marzocchi 55 cartridge i got from you. i'm 170, the spring was a 7.2 or 3 Nm, which is for people 200+. you went ahead & set up the cart for the spring w/o getting ahold of me to let me know it was too much spring for my weight & requested AM/trail tune. i got a 6.0 Nm spring 3 years ago & have been trying to get from you the info on the shim changes for the rate change ever since. no luck. how 'bout now?


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

nhodge said:


> there it is. what i've been saying about my specific Marzocchi 55 cartridge i got from you. i'm 170, the spring was a 7.2 or 3 Nm, which is for people 200+. you went ahead & set up the cart for the spring w/o getting ahold of me to let me know it was too much spring for my weight & requested AM/trail tune. i got a 6.0 Nm spring 3 years ago & have been trying to get from you the info on the shim changes for the rate change ever since. no luck. how 'bout now?


All you have to do is call us or send your cartridge in for a revalve, like I said above the damper performance is limited to the available spring rates and the overall design of the system. Fortunately you were able to find a softer rate spring from Marzocchi,s very limited inventory. BTW this was from a job we did in 1/23/2013?


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

i'm just gonna let this sit as is for awhile


crseekins said:


> All you have to do is call us or send your cartridge in for a revalve, like I said above the damper performance is limited to the available spring rates and the overall design of the system. Fortunately you were able to find a softer rate spring from Marzocchi,s very limited inventory. BTW this was from a job we did in 1/23/2013?


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

*Lyric compatibility*

Darren I have a question, what I don't understand is how all of the sudden the acs works in a lyric? I am not questioning you, just wondering because what was originally stated was the ID of the lyric legs were too small, did you have to create new springs and such? Anyhow just wondering and patiently waiting for the product! I am sure you are gonna sell a ton of these, glad you made it work.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

nhodge said:


> i'm just gonna let this sit as is for awhile


Please do, I think you've brought this up annually. Let it go. I certainly don't want to hear it again... PM your heart out, talk to a therapist, but don't trash another thread.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> If you're looking for an increase in performance from your damper side, we have a new service for $125 where you can send us your FIT, RC2, or Charger damper separately from your fork and we will give it a complete overhaul, install our tuning components, and revalve it based on rider weight, riding style, and the bike it's going on.


darren - i assume this tuning/revalve is the same as your current factory fork system @ $225/$250 just without the fork rebuild as only the damper is sent? can you share what exactly is being replaced/upgraded/changed on the charger damper?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

literally said:


> darren - i assume this tuning/revalve is the same as your current factory fork system @ $225/$250 just without the fork rebuild as only the damper is sent? can you share what exactly is being replaced/upgraded/changed on the charger damper?


Agree. I would love more info. This could be a really great deal for people with FIT cartridges, as they are really a pain to rebuild for the home mechanic.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> It's not ideal as the stock Charger damper.
> 
> Darren


Thanks Darren.
1 more question. I still have my pike charger damper.
Which set up will give me a better performance?
AVY Open Bath + ACS3 or Pike chager damper + ACS3? (There is a 3rd option, just keep the AVY with pike air shaft


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> Thanks Darren.
> 1 more question. I still have my pike charger damper.
> Which set up will give me a better performance?
> AVY Open Bath + ACS3 or Pike chager damper + ACS3? (There is a 3rd option, just keep the AVY with pike air shaft


I'm not sure if you're just trying to stir the pot here some more, but assuming your question was sincere.... wasn't the post that you quoted Darren's response to somebody asking about pairing the spring kit with avy's open bath damper?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jukas (Mar 30, 2016)

Hey Darren,

I'm not super familiar with the internals of forks, so I'm hoping you can answer some basic questions to help me figure out if this is the right option for my Pike.

I currently have a 2016 150mm Pike on my Bronson with a luftkappe which was a dramatic improvement over stock, but still not 100% where I want the fork.

What parts does the ACS 3 kit replace in the fork? I assume I'd discard the luftkappe in the conversion?

In the current air spring, it's relatively easy to go back and forth between 150 - 160mm by swapping out the air shaft. 160mm is a bit overkill for my local riding, but 150 can be a bit lacking when riding chunkier stuff. Can you swap between the 150-160 travel with parts (I assume the kit replaces the existing air shaft) or is it an entire kit and you're committing to a specific travel?

I see you have different model years on the pike when ordering.. is that for the difference in dampers or the difference in the token side cap? I was planning on replacing my cap that's getting rathe chewed up and rounded off with the newer style that you use a cassette tool to remove.


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## DoYouEvenRideCoilBro (Nov 23, 2017)

Can we have a 180mm conversion for the 36 yet? Pretty please! I promise then that I will buy an 11-6. Otherwise I'm just going to go ghetto and machine a 10mm extension for my next build and put an Ohlins on the back. 

But I can be convinced - all I need is a 180mm assay as a sweetner


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## DoYouEvenRideCoilBro (Nov 23, 2017)

EDIT: Wrong thread


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jazzanova said:


> Thanks Darren.
> 1 more question. I still have my pike charger damper.
> Which set up will give me a better performance?
> AVY Open Bath + ACS3 or Pike chager damper + ACS3? (There is a 3rd option, just keep the AVY with pike air shaft


A closed charger type damper is theoretically better because it limits the emulsification of the oil, but it depends on it never sucking air back in, getting contaminated, no bubbles, etc. In my experience with the charger, this was an issue, even with the upgraded seal heads, maybe not super frequently, but pulling and bleeding that damper or changing out parts is not fun and a custom-valved damper almost always beats out an OEM one, so my Avy cart far exceeded my charger dampers in my lyrik and pike. The open bath damper with more oil obviously dissipates heat better and lubricates that side of the fork much better, making for stupid-easy oil changes too. The damping performance on my Avy cart is so good that I have no want to change it to coil (I run a coil in the rear). The bike feels like a monster already with the tuned shocks front and rear. I'm sure a coil would be even better as far as feel, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade, if ever. Given the reliability and failure modes of the charger, I'm sticking to the Avy, that's one of the bigger reasons I went with it in the first place. I want awesome performance and I just want to be able to turn the fork upside down and dump the oil once or twice a season and put in new oil and be on my way.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> Thanks Darren.
> 1 more question. I still have my pike charger damper.
> Which set up will give me a better performance?
> AVY Open Bath + ACS3 or Pike chager damper + ACS3? (There is a 3rd option, just keep the AVY with pike air shaft


You know he's going to say his coil system and stock damper. He built the spring kit with keeping the stock damper in mind.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Christopher Robin said:


> You know he's going to say his coil system and stock damper. He built the spring kit with keeping the stock damper in mind.


he's already said it and made it clear. not sure why the question is still being asked.



PUSHIND said:


> I'm not sure why this is turning into such a large discussion. If you want your ACS3 kit to perform the way that we designed it to, we're simply recommending installing it with the factory damper...


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## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

literally said:


> he's already said it and made it clear. not sure why the question is still being asked.


Avy dampers are quite pricey, but have minimal resale value. I think that's why.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nmxtrdr said:


> Avy dampers are quite pricey, but have minimal resale value. I think that's why.


Shhh. Don't let the conspiracy out of the bag.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## KineticFear (Jan 25, 2012)

Does anyone know if a 2018 Fox 36 set at 160mm with the stock air spring will be able to extend to 170 with a 170mm ACS kit?


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

KineticFear said:


> Does anyone know if a 2018 Fox 36 set at 160mm with the stock air spring will be able to extend to 170 with a 170mm ACS kit?


likely not, but you can check the exact one you have, fox has one 140-160 and another 160-180 if I'm not mistaken, most forks sold as 160 are the lower travel range


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

this topic kinda turned into a this vs. that conversation.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

KineticFear said:


> Does anyone know if a 2018 Fox 36 set at 160mm with the stock air spring will be able to extend to 170 with a 170mm ACS kit?


If its a RC2 damper then no it needs a new part. If its a Fit4 it can be.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

A_street said:


> this topic kinda turned into a this vs. that conversation.


Agreed. Let's keep it Push coil conversion and Push tune related.

On that note: People at Push, add more detail about the damper tuning and exactly what you do on the website please!


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Christopher Robin said:


> Agreed. Let's keep it Push coil conversion and Push tune related.
> 
> On that note: People at Push, add more detail about the damper tuning and exactly what you do on the website please!


They change the HSC spring, the valving on the HSC and the HSC rebound shim stack.

Whta do you want? Spring poundage and valve shim dimensions?


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## KineticFear (Jan 25, 2012)

mfa81 said:


> likely not, but you can check the exact one you have, fox has one 140-160 and another 160-180 if I'm not mistaken, most forks sold as 160 are the lower travel range





Rick Draper said:


> If its a RC2 damper then no it needs a new part. If its a Fit4 it can be.


Thanks guys, is there a way to tell the difference? It is a RC2 damper so it sounds unlikely


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> They change the HSC spring, the valving on the HSC and the HSC rebound shim stack.
> 
> Whta do you want? Spring poundage and valve shim dimensions?


Yes. That would be a start. I want to read about the reasoning why they do those changes.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Christopher Robin said:


> Yes. That would be a start. I want to read about the reasoning why they do those changes.


Because the stock spring is too short and the first 3-4 clicks are useless as the spring floats and I would guess Darren and the guys think the HSC valving is too stiff as standard. You cannot expect them to tell you everything about why they do things.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Rick Draper said:


> Because the stock spring is too short and the first 3-4 clicks are useless as the spring floats and I would guess Darren and the guys think the HSC valving is too stiff as standard. You cannot expect them to tell you everything about why they do things.


I would expect a tuner to be transparent and tell me what they do and why, so I know whether it's actually being tuned or whether smoke is just being blown up my a$$. When you are dealing with a closed system that comes back looking exactly like you sent it out, it's nice to know. To Push and other tuners credit, you usually get a baggie full of parts back with what they replaced, at least in my previous experience, but still, this is an area where it's nice to know up front and before. Just like when a new fork comes out, I want to know how the damping system works, what kind of internals are in there, because the magazines and reviewers these days won't give you any useful information for performance or operation, so you are left to figure this out based on the drawings and tech info.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Jayem said:


> I would expect a tuner to be transparent and tell me what they do and why, so I know whether it's actually being tuned or whether smoke is just being blown up my a$$. When you are dealing with a closed system that comes back looking exactly like you sent it out, it's nice to know. To Push and other tuners credit, you usually get a baggie full of parts back with what they replaced, at least in my previous experience, but still, this is an area where it's nice to know up front and before. Just like when a new fork comes out, I want to know how the damping system works, what kind of internals are in there, because the magazines and reviewers these days won't give you any useful information for performance or operation, so you are left to figure this out based on the drawings and tech info.


They state on the website what they alter in the damper.

To want to know the exact specs of what they use is pretty unreasonable IMHO.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

I think a lot of this can be better understood by considering all businesses exist to provide the owners income, not necessarily to provide the customer real world benefits.


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

*really?*



SyT said:


> I think a lot of this can be better understood by considering all businesses exist to provide the owners income, not necessarily to provide the customer real world benefits.


and if the provide sucks the business goes under....kind of a flawed and cynical way to look owning a business.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

That's how and why marketing exists.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

SyT said:


> I think a lot of this can be better understood by considering all businesses exist to provide the owners income, not necessarily to provide the customer real world benefits.


The American Dream! Charge a premium for a shyte product. How sad.

I have yet to be disappointed in anything tune or rebuild from Push or Avalanche going back to 2005. Keep bringing it please:thumbsup:


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm not saying that Darren's or Craig's products are ****. I have both. I'm saying businesses exist to make money as a first priority and it's wise to consider that.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Jayem said:


> I would expect a tuner to be transparent and tell me what they do and why, so I know whether it's actually being tuned or whether smoke is just being blown up my a$$. When you are dealing with a closed system that comes back looking exactly like you sent it out, it's nice to know. To Push and other tuners credit, you usually get a baggie full of parts back with what they replaced, at least in my previous experience, but still, this is an area where it's nice to know up front and before. Just like when a new fork comes out, I want to know how the damping system works, what kind of internals are in there, because the magazines and reviewers these days won't give you any useful information for performance or operation, so you are left to figure this out based on the drawings and tech info.


I would also like to know a little more info on the damper tune.
On their "formerly" offered rear shock tunes (see what I did there!) they would state that they had a new "high flow piston" that they installed to replace the stock piston.
Is this part of the fork damper tune along with the appropriate shim stacks for rider weight? What about better suspension oil and low friction seals etc..

I'm sure it will be an improvement but more info would be fun to have before dropping some $$$!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

SyT said:


> I think a lot of this can be better understood by considering all businesses exist to provide the owners income, not necessarily to provide the customer real world benefits.


Wow, just wow.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

A bit off the radar with the holiday week. I'll swing back around in a couple of days and catch up. I'm happy to go into detail on the tuning and other items, questions, and concerns. Based on what I'm reading I know there's going to be a few riders interested in our new video series!

Darren


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cary said:


> Wow, just wow.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Why wow? For any publicly traded company, he's 100%, the purpose of the company is to benefit the shareholders, not the employees or public that uses the company. As long as the shareholders are happy, that's all that matters. That's the reality of removing the accountability out of a company. That may not apply to a lot of small MTB companies, most of them are probably in it because they love the sport and want to do something related to it or bring something to it, but once you get bigger enough, that doesn't matter anymore.

It's kind of like the reason you work is because you get paid. If I wasn't getting paid, I sure as heck wouldn't come to work.

This general idea doesn't apply to Push or Avalanche or many others in this extreme, but you are pulling the wool over your eyes if you don't think this exists in our free markets.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Why wow? For any publicly traded company, he's 100%, the purpose of the company is to benefit the shareholders, not the employees or public that uses the company. As long as the shareholders are happy, that's all that matters. That's the reality of removing the accountability out of a company. That may not apply to a lot of small MTB companies, most of them are probably in it because they love the sport and want to do something related to it or bring something to it, but once you get bigger enough, that doesn't matter anymore.
> 
> It's kind of like the reason you work is because you get paid. If I wasn't getting paid, I sure as heck wouldn't come to work.
> 
> This general idea doesn't apply to Push or Avalanche or many others in this extreme, but you are pulling the wool over your eyes if you don't think this exists in our free markets.


It's wow because either 1) he has just discovered capitalism, or 2) believes that somehow the fact that companies have a profit motive makes them the enemy. Why he had to put it in this thread is just beyond me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Cary said:


> It's wow because either 1) he has just discovered capitalism, or 2) believes that somehow the fact that companies have a profit motive makes them the enemy. Why he had to put it in this thread is just beyond me.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah, ya got me there.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> Because the stock spring is too short and the first 3-4 clicks are useless as the spring floats and I would guess Darren and the guys think the HSC valving is too stiff as standard. You cannot expect them to tell you everything about why they do things.


Well this is a start. What I mean is they can mention why they change the spring. That's all.


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

PUSHIND said:


> A bit off the radar with the holiday week. I'll swing back around in a couple of days and catch up. I'm happy to go into detail on the tuning and other items, questions, and concerns. Based on what I'm reading I know there's going to be a few riders interested in our new video series!
> 
> Darren


Sent you a PM...thx! LB


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## james.stoup (May 8, 2015)

I keep waiting for the 170mm 36 kits to get in stock. Any ideas on when that will happen besides soon?


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## Robin Grant (Dec 1, 2013)

@Darren - will the Lyrik ACS kit work with a 29" version that's been converted from 160mm to 180mm travel?

And do you know when TF Tuned will be getting their hands on the kits? (I'm in the UK).


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## _meyercord (Dec 4, 2017)

The eleven six transformed my bike, the acs3 did that and then some. Beyond pleased with both products.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Darren I have a question, what I don't understand is how all of the sudden the acs works in a lyric? I am not questioning you, just wondering because what was originally stated was the ID of the lyric legs were too small, did you have to create new springs and such? Anyhow just wondering and patiently waiting for the product! I am sure you are gonna sell a ton of these, glad you made it work.


The original spring/preload cap/bump stop interface(which didn't fit in the Lyrik) was a different design that had been changed during the prototyping phase. The new system, which is currently what you see in production, made room for the Lyrik/Yari fit. This little tidbit of information wasn't caught until after the fact when a different engineer looked at the Lyrik with the new interface and said "hey, have a look a this!". We figured no one would complain! 



> darren - i assume this tuning/revalve is the same as your current factory fork system @ $225/$250 just without the fork rebuild as only the damper is sent? can you share what exactly is being replaced/upgraded/changed on the charger damper?


Yes, similar to our FFS that we offer for FOX. More details coming soon when everything is ready to be loaded to the website.



> I'm not super familiar with the internals of forks, so I'm hoping you can answer some basic questions to help me figure out if this is the right option for my Pike.
> 
> I currently have a 2016 150mm Pike on my Bronson with a luftkappe which was a dramatic improvement over stock, but still not 100% where I want the fork.
> 
> ...


The ACS3 kit replaces everything in the left fork leg. The install video can be seen here which also addresses the model years:

[video]vimeo.com/245968690[/video]

Lastly, yes, you do have to replace the complete upper and lower assemblies to change travel.



> Can we have a 180mm conversion for the 36 yet? Pretty please! I promise then that I will buy an 11-6. Otherwise I'm just going to go ghetto and machine a 10mm extension for my next build and put an Ohlins on the back.


Unfortunately, I don't see the 180mm kit happening. We just haven't had any demand.



> Does anyone know if a 2018 Fox 36 set at 160mm with the stock air spring will be able to extend to 170 with a 170mm ACS kit


Yes, if it's a FIT-4. If you have an RC2 you have to also have the cartridge body replaced wth the 170/180mm compatible version. The body is less than $20, but does require the cartridge to be rebuilt.



> I keep waiting for the 170mm 36 kits to get in stock. Any ideas on when that will happen besides soon?


Yeah, this is killing me too! We've got an excessive noise issue that we're dealing with on certain springs when set to that length. We're hoping to have a production solution shipping in January.



> @Darren - will the Lyrik ACS kit work with a 29" version that's been converted from 160mm to 180mm travel?
> 
> And do you know when TF Tuned will be getting their hands on the kits? (I'm in the UK).


Lyrik kits will be available in 170mm max travel just like the FOX kits. TF should have them immediately available when we start shipping them.



> The eleven six transformed my bike, the acs3 did that and then some. Beyond pleased with both products


:thumbsup:

As for the tuning, I'm happy to go into more detail on what we currently ship:

36 RC2: We replace the stock HS compression spring with one that is longer and softer. This allows us to increase both the static and dynamic preload on the valve stack. We then install custom tailored valve stacks using our shims which are offered in different diameters and thicknesses from stock. This allows us to create damping characteristics that vary significantly from stock. We also change the rebound valving, again using our shims which are offered in different diameters and thicknesses from stock.

36 FIT-4: We install a compression valve pivot seat along with our valving shims which....you guessed it....are different size and thickness from stock. The valve seat allows us to change the annular volume of the valve and change it's characteristic allowing us a broader range of tuning options. Rebound is the same as seen in the RC2.

For the tech geeks out there like us, a quick video of some cartridge testing can be seen here:

[video]vimeo.com/246027216[/video]

Darren


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

PUSHIND said:


> The original spring/preload cap/bump stop interface(which didn't fit in the Lyrik) was a different design that had been changed during the prototyping phase. The new system, which is currently what you see in production, made room for the Lyrik/Yari fit. This little tidbit of information wasn't caught until after the fact when a different engineer looked at the Lyrik with the new interface and said "hey, have a look a this!". We figured no one would complain!
> 
> Yes, similar to our FFS that we offer for FOX. More details coming soon when everything is ready to be loaded to the website.
> 
> ...


Darren,

Just curious on the dyno testing. Obviously you know the range of shaft speeds and displacements the fork will see, but wondering if you also use data gathered from actual rides. I.e. running the cartridge through a mock course?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

PUSHIND said:


> As for the tuning, I'm happy to go into more detail on what we currently ship:
> 
> 36 RC2: We replace the stock HS compression spring with one that is longer and softer. This allows us to increase both the static and dynamic preload on the valve stack. We then install custom tailored valve stacks using our shims which are offered in different diameters and thicknesses from stock. This allows us to create damping characteristics that vary significantly from stock. We also change the rebound valving, again using our shims which are offered in different diameters and thicknesses from stock.
> 
> ...


This is the kind of info that tuners need to provide with their products. :thumbsup:


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> Yes, similar to our FFS that we offer for FOX. More details coming soon when everything is ready to be loaded to the website.


darren, any chance of a real world ETA on the charger factory tune/system (CFT/CFS?) availability?


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Jayem said:


> This is the kind of info that tuners need to provide with their products. :thumbsup:


but i thought we weren't supposed to expect tuners to tell us why they do things?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Just curious on the dyno testing. Obviously you know the range of shaft speeds and displacements the fork will see, but wondering if you also use data gathered from actual rides. I.e. running the cartridge through a mock course?


Yes, we use a number of different on-board data logging equipment setups that give us "real world" information on what the bike/suspension is actually doing. This not only provides our engineers(who ride at a high level I might add) with a significant amount of information and understanding about what they're feeling seat-of-the-pants, but also allows us to test accurately in our suspension lab using the actual trail data. It's not the most exciting sample... but here's a video that I took after taking one of the bikes out into the parking lot and hitting a couple of curbs, and then loading the fork data onto the test rig:

[video]vimeo.com/246192028[/video]



> This is the kind of info that tuners need to provide with their products.


 Thanks. I had to....I was being called out! 



> darren, any chance of a real world ETA on the charger factory tune/system (CFT/CFS?) availability?


Before the end of the month.

Darren


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Thanks for the info on what happens to the RC2 damper!


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

@PUSH

What's the ETA on shipping the Pike kits? Last week I was told by someone there "some point next week". 

Can't wait to try this thing out.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

sdt0012 said:


> @PUSH
> 
> What's the ETA on shipping the Pike kits? Last week I was told by someone there "some point next week".
> 
> Can't wait to try this thing out.


We just started assembling on Friday and should be shipping them on Monday.

Darren


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Darren - any details on the video series you mentioned? will we be seeing any 'here's what we change/update/fix when we tune your damper and why we do it' type videos? or will it be more general 'how to' or 'how it works' type stuff like the 'Tuesday tune' series vorsprung is doing? thanks for answering all the questions you have in this thread.


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## bedell99 (Jan 5, 2007)

Good evening Darren,

Had my first ride today. Two questions. Fox 36 160mm Fit4 40inlbs spring weigh 158 with gear

Rebound recomendation at 13 clicks seemed super quick. Ended up up at 10. Is the recommended settings for a RC2 damper?

Had excessive sag at 40mm and had to add two preload shim to get 30mm. Would you suggest going to a 45 inlb spring?

Overall: Unbelievable. The damper actually works now and ended with six clicks of low speed. Best money I spent on suspension

Erik


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Anyone else notice they don't need to run much psi in the air bump stop? I have a black spring and I fit in the middle of the weight range for it. I only run 15psi to get me close to using full travel. Even then I still have 1.25" or so unused travel...which will be good for those emergencies.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Christopher Robin said:


> Anyone else notice they don't need to run much psi in the air bump stop? I have a black spring and I fit in the middle of the weight range for it.* I only run 15psi to get me close to using full travel.* Even then I still have 1.25" or so unused travel...which will be good for those emergencies.


Feel free to run any psi you want btw 5 and 50 to try to get more travel if you want!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

literally said:


> Darren - any details on the video series you mentioned? will we be seeing any 'here's what we change/update/fix when we tune your damper and why we do it' type videos? or will it be more general 'how to' or 'how it works' type stuff like the 'Tuesday tune' series vorsprung is doing? thanks for answering all the questions you have in this thread.


The videos are really designed to remove a lot of the "voodoo" from suspension on MTB's. There's a lot of misinformation around so we figured we'd just show a few things and let the audience ultimately dictate the future videos.



> Good evening Darren,
> 
> Had my first ride today. Two questions. Fox 36 160mm Fit4 40inlbs spring weigh 158 with gear
> 
> ...


Yeah the baseline settings that we provide are just to be used as a starting point. As you mentioned, the external dials actually do something for you now, so you can actually fine tune the fork to your liking. As for the spring rate question, if you find yourself ultimately running more than 35psi in your air bump stop than you might consider it. I'd experiment with LS compression settings and get some more ride time first though.:thumbsup:



> Anyone else notice they don't need to run much psi in the air bump stop? I have a black spring and I fit in the middle of the weight range for it. I only run 15psi to get me close to using full travel. Even then I still have 1.25" or so unused travel...which will be good for those emergencies.


the shorter the travel the more air you need to run. It's very common for 160/170mm forks to only run 15-20psi whereas in the 140/150mm travel forks you often see 35-40psi. The good news is there is no right or wrong, just personal preference.

This is my setup on my Transition Patrol Carbon:

-Rider Weight 190lbs
-2017 FOX 36 FIT-4 160mm
-Stock Damper
-Green (50lb/in Spring)
-15psi Air Bump Stop
-LS Compression 10 out from full closed
-Rebound 10 out from full closed

On my Niner Rip 9 RDO

-Rider Weight 190lbs
-2017 FOX 36 RC2 160mm
-Stock Damper
-Green (50lb/in Spring)
-15psi Air Bump Stop
-LS Compression 10 out from full closed
-HS Compression 12 out from full closed
-Rebound 11 out from full closed

Last my EVIL Calling

-Rider Weight 190lbs
-2017 FOX FIT-4 140mm
-Stock Damper
-Black (55lb/in Spring)
-30psi Air Bump Stop
-LS Compression 10 out from full closed
-Rebound 9 out from full closed

Darren


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

oh, nevermind


PUSHIND said:


> The videos are really designed to remove a lot of the "voodoo" from suspension on MTB's. There's a lot of misinformation around so we figured we'd just show a few things and let the audience ultimately dictate the future videos.
> 
> Yeah the baseline settings that we provide are just to be used as a starting point. As you mentioned, the external dials actually do something for you now, so you can actually fine tune the fork to your liking. As for the spring rate question, if you find yourself ultimately running more than 35psi in your air bump stop than you might consider it. I'd experiment with LS compression settings and get some more ride time first though.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> The ACS3 kit replaces everything in the left fork leg. The install video can be seen here which also addresses the model years:
> 
> [video]vimeo.com/245968690[/video]
> 
> Darren


Question on the Pike install video. In there you say to add 20cc oil to each side of the lowers. Both the MY18 & MY17 Pike manuals say 10cc per side. What's the reason for the difference?


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## bedell99 (Jan 5, 2007)

General recommendation:

Buy a digital shock pump. The air bump stop is so small that a quarter pump can change the pressure by 2-3 psi. 

Rode Bellingham today and fiddled with the suspension a bit more. Hit full travel with the bump stop at 18ish psi on some large doubles. Went back out to faster rebound and added another click of compression. I’m at 7 clicks. Going to leave it along for a while and just ride. 

Erik


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

sdt0012 said:


> Question on the Pike install video. In there you say to add 20cc oil to each side of the lowers. Both the MY18 & MY17 Pike manuals say 10cc per side. What's the reason for the difference?


i think the 2016's say 5cc damper and 15cc air side.
also darren - there is no 26" option - curious if there a technical reason it won't fit in that fork?


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## Jukas (Mar 30, 2016)

As I mention in an earlier post I’ve never been super thrilled with the Pike and I’ve been debating going to a fox 36 with hsc/lsc or sticking with the Pike and going to the acs3 cool kit.

So I know it’s opinion based but what’s likely the biggest bang for the buck? Damper with separate hsc/lsc adjust or coil vs air?

Going to a 36 would be a stretch as is so I couldn’t justify going to it and a acs conversion, so what’s the biggest bang for the buck?

Oh and Darren when’s push gonna bring back the beanies?


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Massive respect to Darren for your commitment, replying to forum threads and making tuto videos yourself ! I'm looking forward to get a kit for my Lyrik.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Jukas said:


> As I mention in an earlier post I've never been super thrilled with the Pike and I've been debating going to a fox 36 with hsc/lsc or sticking with the Pike and going to the acs3 cool kit.
> 
> So I know it's opinion based but what's likely the biggest bang for the buck? Damper with separate hsc/lsc adjust or coil vs air?
> 
> ...


I have a 36 with ACS "cool kit" & PUSH damper tune and a Pike with ACS "cool kit", stock tuned for now

They are both superb

36 is a tad stiffer, Pike is a tad lighter.


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## Jukas (Mar 30, 2016)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> I have a 36 with ACS "cool kit" & PUSH damper tune and a Pike with ACS "cool kit", stock tuned for now
> 
> They are both superb
> 
> 36 is a tad stiffer, Pike is a tad lighter.


Lol, I didn't even notice the typo, thx iphone 

Do you notice dramatic differences in feel of the two forks after the coil kit compared to each other? Typically fox forks in stock form feel a bit plusher while Lyrik/pikes feel a bit stiffer which some (including me) find can translate to a harsher feel on the fast smaller hits.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm a long time Fox user with significant time on the stock 36 and ACS 36. The difference is night & day.

As for the Pike, I honestly didn't ride it stock. It came out of the box and the ACS kit was immediately installed, so I can't compare it to stock. But having said that, the ACS Pike feels just as buttery smooth as the Fox, although my 36, with PUSH damper tune, has better damping for my weight and style. When available, I plan to have the damper tuned by PUSH as well.

I don't consider the ACS-Pike to be "harsh" on small hits at all. It's very supple throughout the travel stroke.

36 is on a Santa Cruz Nomad. Pike on an Evil Calling.


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm hoping to order the kit for my Pike this week! Hopefully the stock they have isn't limited to just the preorders.


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Darren 
Will the spring rate guide for the Pike be the same as the current chart for the Fox 36 shown on the Push website?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Can anyone tell me whether it is just the inside of the stanchion that gets messed up? I'm considering picking up a 2nd CSU for my pike so I could go back to my DPA setup. Is the CSU enough to do this?

Or more realistically, what are the chances I'd go back?


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## Mikipedia_ (Oct 22, 2015)

Try going back befor buying? In worst case its going to cost some airseals, if its not working then buy a new csu.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

Hi all. I'm looking at this thing seriously to go with the ElevenSix that I've had for 2 years on my new Evil Wreckoning Dream build. I'm loving all the tech stuff although there is a sh!tload I don't understand. I'm more looking at what folks think of the upgrade? So far Squeaky and a few others say it's amazing (not surprised really) but I'm kind of looking for a few more in depth reviews. Can I ask for some feedback on strengths/weaknesses, tunability (so far sounds good) the sort of trails you've hammered with it all the stuff that helps someone who isn't overly tech focused to make a call? I've got a brand spanking new set of 160mm 29er FOX 36's that could benefit from this upgrade but before I pull the trigger on $525AUD for self install or $725AUD for NS Dynamics to install I'm just keen to get a bit more info.

Thanks all and keep up the banter. I'm learning a lot. 

Darren keep up the posts mate it's really appreciated how much you stand behind your product and I love my ElevenSix!!! But........ Damn you for releasing the black anodized shock head. That stuff is pure bike porn and I don't have it!!!!

Cheers Scott.


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## mrgto (Sep 28, 2008)

Any guys 220+ have any feedback on how the damping is after switching to coil, esp guys that ride rough chunky trails. I guess I’m asking if you feel that the damping is up to the job or do you feel that a custom tune is needed.

Also how is the grey spring performing. Do you guys think that it is just enough spring and your right on the edge or do you think it’s supportive enough with room to spare. 
Thanks


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

mrgto said:


> Any guys 220+ have any feedback on how the damping is after switching to coil, esp guys that ride rough chunky trails. I guess I'm asking if you feel that the damping is up to the job or do you feel that a custom tune is needed.
> 
> Also how is the grey spring performing. Do you guys think that it is just enough spring and your right on the edge or do you think it's supportive enough with room to spare.
> Thanks


Although I'm on the other end of the spectrum (140 lbs), I have the same question regarding the need for a custom tune on the damper after an ACS upgrade. Who benefits from a custom tune? Heavier or lighter riders? RC2 vs FIT4 vs Charger damper? Super aggressive rider vs not aggressive? In the other thread discussing the ACS, Darren provided some plots of a dyno comparison between a Pike RC vs RCT3 with compression wide open and the damping force was pretty minimal, so maybe it would be the bigger guys that benefit most from a custom tune???


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

aski said:


> Although I'm on the other end of the spectrum (140 lbs), I have the same question regarding the need for a custom tune on the damper after an ACS upgrade. Who benefits from a custom tune? Heavier or lighter riders? RC2 vs FIT4 vs Charger damper? Super aggressive rider vs not aggressive? In the other thread discussing the ACS, Darren provided some plots of a dyno comparison between a Pike RC vs RCT3 with compression wide open and the damping force was pretty minimal, so maybe it would be the bigger guys that benefit most from a custom tune???


I'll let you know as soon as I get the rest of the bike, but the fork showed up today...Fox36 RC2, 160mm with ACS-3 and custom tuned for me sitting at about 220max with gear (+/-). Not sure if they put the black spring or gray...still need to open the box and see what's what.

This will be the 1st time running a coil fork on any bike I've owned since 2005. I ran a Fox DHX Coil back on my Nomad v1.5 w/Ti spring and PUSH tune and it was so good...you just forgot about it at times and the platform and grip were amazing...so the tune really helped for me and back then I was a little bit heavier as well. But on my last two bike setups I just ran air...so now I'm soon have the HTLT with a custom build, including PUSH front and rear setup...just going straight coil this time.


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Do modern coil forks & shocks have a ramp up function or are they completely linear?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

gpgalanis said:


> Do modern coil forks & shocks have a ramp up function or are they completely linear?


Coil shocks are best matched to progressive-rate bikes, where it gets harder to compress the further it is in the travel. This is why linkage-controlled bikes are so popular, but the correct curve for an air-shock bike is significantly different, so just because your bike has a linkage doesn't mean it can use a coil shock and there really aren't that many bikes with coil shocks these days. Some of the manufacturers spec a coil shock when one doesn't really work with the curve or they do the same with an air shock, so it's not a guarantee unfortunately. But generally, coil shocks are best paired with progressive curve bikes. Most also have bottom-out bumpers of varying thickness. There were some coil shocks that allowed you to adjust the "progressiveness" of the shock, in other words, "position sensitive damping". These worked like crap and are gone now. There were some others like the stratos helix series that had a progressive-wound coil spring AND an air shock within the coil shock, these too are gone now.

There aren't many, if any, modern coil forks, as you are figuring out. Older ones used a variety of methods to prevent bottom-out. Some used tight oil seals held in by circlips that would seal tighter the more the pressure was increased, this means they could use the oil height to adjust "ramp up" at the end of travel, others have used hydraulic anti-bottoming cones, fox did this a few years back and it was even adjustable. Before this, most manufacturers just used a bottom-out elastomer or combination of elastomer and spring in the "spring stack". It always felt wonky to me because the amount of damping inherent to the elastomer was way off from what you usually wanted the damping to do, but it was another method to achieve the same.

My avalanche cart uses the hydraulic anti-bottoming and that's pretty amazing, has saved my butt more than once when I lost control or did something stupid like completely overshot a tabletop by 10 feet, to have the thing slowly reach the end of travel without an abrupt clunk that causes your wrists to fail or launches you back up is great.


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## gpgalanis (Apr 7, 2015)

Excellent reply. Thank you very much.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I'm hoping to order the kit for my Pike this week! Hopefully the stock they have isn't limited to just the preorders.


It's not limited...we're going as fast as we can at the moment to get everyone's orders filled.



> Will the spring rate guide for the Pike be the same as the current chart for the Fox 36 shown on the Push website?


Yes it is. For 36, PIKE, and Lyrik.



> Can anyone tell me whether it is just the inside of the stanchion that gets messed up? I'm considering picking up a 2nd CSU for my pike so I could go back to my DPA setup. Is the CSU enough to do this?
> 
> Or more realistically, what are the chances I'd go back?


It will cause damage, but we can assure you that you would never want to go back!:thumbsup:



> Hi all. I'm looking at this thing seriously to go with the ElevenSix that I've had for 2 years on my new Evil Wreckoning Dream build. I'm loving all the tech stuff although there is a sh!tload I don't understand. I'm more looking at what folks think of the upgrade? So far Squeaky and a few others say it's amazing (not surprised really) but I'm kind of looking for a few more in depth reviews. Can I ask for some feedback on strengths/weaknesses, tunability (so far sounds good) the sort of trails you've hammered with it all the stuff that helps someone who isn't overly tech focused to make a call? I've got a brand spanking new set of 160mm 29er FOX 36's that could benefit from this upgrade but before I pull the trigger on $525AUD for self install or $725AUD for NS Dynamics to install I'm just keen to get a bit more info.
> 
> Thanks all and keep up the banter. I'm learning a lot.
> 
> Darren keep up the posts mate it's really appreciated how much you stand behind your product and I love my ElevenSix!!! But........ Damn you for releasing the black anodized shock head. That stuff is pure bike porn and I don't have it!!!!


:thumbsup: Kevin from Evil just sent in 3 more forks for ACS3 fitment. They ride it and so should you! 



> Although I'm on the other end of the spectrum (140 lbs), I have the same question regarding the need for a custom tune on the damper after an ACS upgrade. Who benefits from a custom tune? Heavier or lighter riders? RC2 vs FIT4 vs Charger damper? Super aggressive rider vs not aggressive? In the other thread discussing the ACS, Darren provided some plots of a dyno comparison between a Pike RC vs RCT3 with compression wide open and the damping force was pretty minimal, so maybe it would be the bigger guys that benefit most from a custom tune???


All riders can benefit from custom tuning, however you won't get the large increases of performance seen when installing the ACS3 kit even with a stock damper. This is because with the air spring system removed the usable range of the stock damper is increased significantly. For riders looking to squeeze that next bit of performance out...then the tuning option is for you.



> Any guys 220+ have any feedback on how the damping is after switching to coil, esp guys that ride rough chunky trails. I guess I'm asking if you feel that the damping is up to the job or do you feel that a custom tune is needed.
> 
> Also how is the grey spring performing. Do you guys think that it is just enough spring and your right on the edge or do you think it's supportive enough with room to spare.


I can tell you that you're in our most popular weight category initially being sold. As for feedback, we're hearing the same thing from everyone regarding damping(it's now usable), and in regards to spring rate it seems we may have gone a bit conservative with the Black(55lb/in) and Grey(60lb/in) spring rates. A number of 240-250lb riders on 160mm forks have been really happy with the upper rates performance.



> Coil shocks are best matched to progressive-rate bikes, where it gets harder to compress the further it is in the travel. This is why linkage-controlled bikes are so popular, but the correct curve for an air-shock bike is significantly different, so just because your bike has a linkage doesn't mean it can use a coil shock and there really aren't that many bikes with coil shocks these days. Some of the manufacturers spec a coil shock when one doesn't really work with the curve or they do the same with an air shock, so it's not a guarantee unfortunately.


With the introduction of high volume positive and negative air systems from FOX(EVOL) and Rock Shox(Debonair), this isn't really the case any longer. Modern air shock spring characteristics require far more rise in rate than before and more and more applications can be spec'd with either air or coil just as effectively. This is actually the trend from manufacturers.

Darren


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> It will cause damage, but we can assure you that you would never want to go back!:thumbsup:


i've installed a fluorescent light tube cover inside the upper tube on a coil fork and been able to go back to the air spring without any issues. may be something to look into for those who are a little worried about this.



PUSHIND said:


> All riders can benefit from custom tuning, however you won't get the large increases of performance seen when installing the ACS3 kit even with a stock damper. This is because with the air spring system removed the usable range of the stock damper is increased significantly. For riders looking to squeeze that next bit of performance out...then the tuning option is for you.


can you go into a little more detail here? in regards to the charger damper it seems there is a lot of talk about how the damper really isn't that great, how the adjustment ranges have issues, it's harsh, etc. is it simply due the air springs inherent qualities with initial stiction and end stroke ramp up putting more work on the damper? and if so, isn't that something that the engineers would have known and accounted for? and to touch on your reply about the high volume + and - air springs - we should see improvements in the damper performance with products like the luftkappe and mrp ramp control, or any product that helps minimize some of the stock air spring characteristics, correct?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

PUSHIND said:


> With the introduction of high volume positive and negative air systems from FOX(EVOL) and Rock Shox(Debonair), this isn't really the case any longer. Modern air shock spring characteristics require far more rise in rate than before and more and more applications can be spec'd with either air or coil just as effectively. This is actually the trend from manufacturers.
> 
> Darren


It's great to get more specific, but speaking in generalities, what I said is true, you might need more rising rate in the middle of travel to make up for the extremely flat air-shocks rate, and overall the bike may have a rising rate, but this curve will generally not be the same curve as a coil shock curve, just as you guys have confirmed by not offering your coil shock for certain bikes where it just wont work correctly.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> i've installed a fluorescent light tube cover inside the upper tube on a coil fork and been able to go back to the air spring without any issues. may be something to look into for those who are a little worried about this.


That wouldn't work with an ACS3 system as we utilize a guide bearing on the lower plunger assembly. that runs on the inner tube.



> can you go into a little more detail here? in regards to the charger damper it seems there is a lot of talk about how the damper really isn't that great, how the adjustment ranges have issues, it's harsh, etc. is it simply due the air springs inherent qualities with initial stiction and end stroke ramp up putting more work on the damper? and if so, isn't that something that the engineers would have known and accounted for? and to touch on your reply about the high volume + and - air springs - we should see improvements in the damper performance with products like the luftkappe and mrp ramp control, or any product that helps minimize some of the stock air spring characteristics, correct?


I went into this in more detail with dyno information etc, but the gist of it is that damping levels in front forks are very low in comparison to rear shocks. This is obviously due to the fact that the forks in question have a 1:1 rate. So in this case, friction from air systems are a relatively large portion of the amount of "damping" being generated. Also, unlike the actual cartridge damper which is quite stable, the friction component can vary even over the course of a ride giving varying performance results. You're correct in the fact that the engineers know this, but what can they do? You can only reduce seal drag by so much before you start to loose seal-ability. I would argue that modern air spring systems are highly optimized and are very good.

With the ACS3, there is relatively zero friction, no change from heat/altitude/humidity, no small trapped air pockets that need to be burped, and no change in performance even on the longest rides/descents.

Darren


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> All riders can benefit from custom tuning, however you won't get the large increases of performance seen when installing the ACS3 kit even with a stock damper. This is because with the air spring system removed the usable range of the stock damper is increased significantly. For riders looking to squeeze that next bit of performance out...then the tuning option is for you.
> Darren


What's the ETA on Charger damper tuning? I'd pre-order the ACS kit for the Lyrik but just waiting because I want both and would just send the fork in.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Jayem said:


> It's great to get more specific, but speaking in generalities, what I said is true, you might need more rising rate in the middle of travel to make up for the extremely flat air-shocks rate, and overall the bike may have a rising rate, but this curve will generally not be the same curve as a coil shock curve, just as you guys have confirmed by not offering your coil shock for certain bikes where it just wont work correctly.


I was just addressing that what you said *was* true, but is not really reflective of newer model bikes. Last year we started seeing a shift to traditional rising rate kinematics even when spec'd with an air shock now that there's a resurgence in coil shocks being offered at OE.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

rockman said:


> What's the ETA on Charger damper tuning? I'd pre-order the ACS kit for the Lyrik but just waiting because I want both and would just send the fork in.


We're trying to get it into the queue, but are still needing to clear out a significant amount of work in our technical service department first. It's not helping that PUSH will be closing down from Dec 23rd though Jan-1.

Darren


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> We're trying to get it into the queue, but are still needing to clear out a significant amount of work in our technical service department first. It's not helping that PUSH will be closing down from Dec 23rd though Jan-1.
> 
> Darren


Looks like the Lyrik ACS kit is sold out anyway. See ya in January and happy holidaze to Push and co.:thumbsup:


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> It's not helping that PUSH will be closing down from Dec 23rd though Jan-1.
> 
> Darren


Please tell me you will have the "big boy" springs available before then. I want you to take my money for an ACS already!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

with Fox adding the EVOL to there 2018 36 floats do you think the Push coil is a much noticeable and worthy upgrade? 

trying to decide if I need this in my fork!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Please tell me you will have the "big boy" springs available before then. I want you to take my money for an ACS already!


What's your rider weight and fork travel?



etacata said:


> with Fox adding the EVOL to there 2018 36 floats do you think the Push coil is a much noticeable and worthy upgrade?
> 
> trying to decide if I need this in my fork!


See Post #421 just above.

Darren


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> What's your rider weight and fork travel?
> 
> Darren


250lbs +/- 5lbs with gear. 160mm travel fork that sees some bike park use as well.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

rondre3000 said:


> 250lbs +/- 5lbs with gear. 160mm travel fork that sees some bike park use as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


I've posted this before, but I can tell you that feedback from riders says that our Gray spring weight range is on the conservative side. I think we could help you out. Feel free to reach out to me directly if you'd like to discuss your setup.

Darren


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## Rockrover (Jul 4, 2012)

Eeek! 170mm Lyrik ‘sold out’?! Dang it!

I’ll bite...ETA sometime in January?


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

@PUSH - Will the Pike kit have initial setting recommendations for LSC/Rebound (Pike RCT3) as are shown on your site for the 36?

My kit shows up today. Woke up feeling like a kid on christmas morning!


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> I've posted this before, but I can tell you that feedback from riders says that our Gray spring weight range is on the conservative side. I think we could help you out. Feel free to reach out to me directly if you'd like to discuss your setup.
> 
> Darren


Thx Darren, will contact you via PM.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

Installed my Pike kit last night. Installation was pretty straightforward, no issues. I watched the video on the Push site beforehand. The video was very clear, making the install a snap. 

Looking forward to getting some ride time this weekend to try it out!


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

is the pike acs video correct when you say add 20ml of suspension oil to each leg as opposed to RS recommendation of 5ml and 10ml?


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

etacata said:


> is the pike acs video correct when you say add 20ml of suspension oil to each leg as opposed to RS recommendation of 5ml and 10ml?


I emailed w/ Push on this, here's what they had to say:

"10-20cc's is fine. We run a little more lubricating fluid which is technically "heavier" than stock."

As a side note, the updated (Rev E) 2014-2017 service manual recommends 10ml each side. No longer shows 5ml/10ml.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

Craw said:


> Installed my Pike kit last night. Installation was pretty straightforward, no issues. I watched the video on the Push site beforehand. The video was very clear, making the install a snap.
> 
> Looking forward to getting some ride time this weekend to try it out!


When you push down on your converted Pike, do you get a loud popping noise? I installed my kit last night and am concerned this will drive me crazy on the trail. Maybe it will go away once I actually ride it off road. It's definitely in the fork as I removed it from the bike and it still makes the noise.


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## r34 gtr (Aug 10, 2011)

Does it sound like the spring compressing?


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## Craw (Feb 10, 2004)

Raja said:


> When you push down on your converted Pike, do you get a loud popping noise? I installed my kit last night and am concerned this will drive me crazy on the trail. Maybe it will go away once I actually ride it off road. It's definitely in the fork as I removed it from the bike and it still makes the noise.


No noticeable noise coming from the fork at all. I'm running the Blue spring. Earlier in this thread some have mentioned the burlier springs causing some noise. Not sure if that's the case here. Loud popping does sound concerning though..


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

It's a loud crack/pop noise.You hear it when you first compress the fork or just bounce the front wheel on the ground.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> When you push down on your converted Pike, do you get a loud popping noise? I installed my kit last night and am concerned this will drive me crazy on the trail. Maybe it will go away once I actually ride it off road. It's definitely in the fork as I removed it from the bike and it still makes the noise.


If you installed the kit properly I wouldn't worry. Depending on your spring rate it could be just the spring slapping against the side of the stanchion tube in an area where the spring doesn't have heat shrink tubing on it. I would suggest riding it around a bit to see of the noise is bothersome. As a mechanical system we can't always get rid of all of the noise. You night also try flipping the spring upside down as sometimes the heat shrink tubing is biased closer to one end of the spring and not perfectly centered.

Darren


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

PUSHIND said:


> That wouldn't work with an ACS3 system as we utilize a guide bearing on the lower plunger assembly. that runs on the inner tube.
> 
> I went into this in more detail with dyno information etc, but the gist of it is that damping levels in front forks are very low in comparison to rear shocks. This is obviously due to the fact that the forks in question have a 1:1 rate. So in this case, friction from air systems are a relatively large portion of the amount of "damping" being generated. Also, unlike the actual cartridge damper which is quite stable, the friction component can vary even over the course of a ride giving varying performance results. You're correct in the fact that the engineers know this, but what can they do? You can only reduce seal drag by so much before you start to loose seal-ability. I would argue that modern air spring systems are highly optimized and are very good.
> 
> ...


thanks Darren. one more if you don't mind...
does that mean you'll be offering different charger tunes based on whether an air or coil spring is being used, since the spring type seems to have that much of an influence on the damper?


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

Raja said:


> It's a loud crack/pop noise.You hear it when you first compress the fork or just bounce the front wheel on the ground.


Installed my pike kit last night (black spring) and it's quiet. Definitely not hearing what you describe. I did put some grease near the shrink wrap as I saw Darren recommend on this thread.


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

Darren - on the Fox 36 fork that you guys sell for with the conversion...what offset do you use for hightower lt? Is it just factory spec @ 51mm or do you go 44mm?


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

Just installed my acs3 on my pike with Luftkapp upgrade last night. Seems pretty dam smooth from my quick ride. I'll give more feedback when I get to ride it more. install was super easy and packaging and quality top notch. got mine with the black spring and did apply grease to the spring and it's very quite.

hoping this upgrade will bring the pike closer to my 2018 fox 36 float performance. The Luftkapp is good but fork still was rough on repeated rough hits.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

etacata said:


> Just installed my acs3 on my pike with Luftkapp upgrade last night. Seems pretty dam smooth from my quick ride. I'll give more feedback when I get to ride it more. install was super easy and packaging and quality top notch. got mine with the black spring and did apply grease to the spring and it's very quite.
> 
> hoping this upgrade will bring the pike closer to my 2018 fox 36 float performance. The Luftkapp is good but fork still was rough on repeated rough hits.


uh, how does that work? Unless I'm missing something the Luftkappe replaces the piston in the air spring. ASC3 replaces the whole shebang. No more air spring.


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

Luftkapp was replaced when I installed the acs3.


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## rockon82 (Jun 24, 2006)

@Darren, hey I’ve had the Push kit a few months, I’m 165lbs in riding gear and running the blue spring on my 160mm 36 forks. I’ve 50psi in the bump stop and I’m running compression about 12 lsc and 14 hsc. I’m using full travel every ride and occasionally still feeling a really harsh bottom out. I’m not dropping off any big drops or landing flat off any silly stuff. Really only feeling the harsh bottom out in really rough fast rutted ground.

Harder spring or could I have a faulty bump stop? I’ve checked the pressure with several pumps. 

Apart from that the increased sensitivity is incredible, the grip offered is much better especially on cambered rough ground. 

Thanks


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

rockon82 said:


> @Darren, hey I've had the Push kit a few months, I'm 165lbs in riding gear and running the blue spring on my 160mm 36 forks. I've 50psi in the bump stop and I'm running compression about 12 lsc and 14 hsc. I'm using full travel every ride and occasionally still feeling a really harsh bottom out. I'm not dropping off any big drops or landing flat off any silly stuff. Really only feeling the harsh bottom out in really rough fast rutted ground.
> 
> Harder spring or could I have a faulty bump stop? I've checked the pressure with several pumps.
> 
> ...


i'm obviously not speaking for darren but how about removing the bump stop and compressing it on its own to see if you feel any resistance or a change in resistance at different psi?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

rockon82 said:


> @Darren, hey I've had the Push kit a few months, I'm 165lbs in riding gear and running the blue spring on my 160mm 36 forks. I've 50psi in the bump stop and I'm running compression about 12 lsc and 14 hsc. I'm using full travel every ride and occasionally still feeling a really harsh bottom out. I'm not dropping off any big drops or landing flat off any silly stuff. Really only feeling the harsh bottom out in really rough fast rutted ground.
> 
> Harder spring or could I have a faulty bump stop? I've checked the pressure with several pumps.
> 
> ...


I'm 160 lbs and had a blue spring and never got close to using all the travel. I was only getting about 15 % sag with it also. I have since got an orange spring and still don't bottom out with 15 psi in the bump stop. 
I wonder if your damper needs a rebuild?


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## rockon82 (Jun 24, 2006)

Yes tried that and there is a difference with different pressures. I guess I dont know what anyone else’s feels like for a comparison.


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## rockon82 (Jun 24, 2006)

I was the same at roughly 15% sag and a few pre load spacers. The damper has been serviced and it’s not old anyway. It was working as expected while using the air spring. 

I can bottom them out bouncing hard on them in my garage with no real speed involved.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Sounds to me like you simply need a firmer spring.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

rockon82 said:


> @Darren, hey I've had the Push kit a few months, I'm 165lbs in riding gear and running the blue spring on my 160mm 36 forks. I've 50psi in the bump stop and I'm running compression about 12 lsc and 14 hsc. I'm using full travel every ride and occasionally still feeling a really harsh bottom out. I'm not dropping off any big drops or landing flat off any silly stuff. Really only feeling the harsh bottom out in really rough fast rutted ground.
> 
> Harder spring or could I have a faulty bump stop? I've checked the pressure with several pumps.
> 
> ...


Chances of a faulty bump stop are low. If you remove it and it still has pressure then you're all set there. It seems like for your rider weight and style you need to go up a rate.

Darren


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## rockon82 (Jun 24, 2006)

Cool, I’ll try that. Thanks.


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

Just got a quick ride in on my newly installed acs3 pike 160 fork. 

Quick backstory, this fork is on my Hightower that I long shocked with a fox dhx2 coil and extended the pike to 160 travel. I was never really HAPPY with the pikes performance in rough tech sections with multiple repeated hits so I got a lufftkappe and that added some smoother initial performance but still was not happy when the fork was in the fast tech rooty sections. I was going to get a fox 36 if I could find a deal but then the chance to get a push coil became available and I took a chance on it.

One thing I noticed is my acs3 with black spring for my 208 lb body did not have a preload spacer. It came with 2 small white plastic washers about 2mm thick. I put one washer on bottom and other on top of the coil. I filled bump stop to 20psi, sag as about 15%. All looked and felt spot on.

Took my bike out in the falling snow up the logging road and droped in on a rooty dh section. The first 200 feet the fork felt almost to supple. I cranked in 3 more turns on the rebound and the fork came alive. It is night vs day with the coil. Very supple and active, super smooth stroke and I found my self throwing the Hightower into corners hard trying to test the forks limits. I never felt it bottom out but I did max the travel on the ride.

So when I bought this from push I was hoping it would transform my pike into a new fork that could better match my dhx2. I have been pleasantly surprised on its first outing and would compare its performance to my 2018 fox 36 that I have on my wreckoning..i feel like I got my $$ worth here.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

PUSHIND said:


> If you installed the kit properly I wouldn't worry. Depending on your spring rate it could be just the spring slapping against the side of the stanchion tube in an area where the spring doesn't have heat shrink tubing on it. I would suggest riding it around a bit to see of the noise is bothersome. As a mechanical system we can't always get rid of all of the noise. You night also try flipping the spring upside down as sometimes the heat shrink tubing is biased closer to one end of the spring and not perfectly centered.
> 
> Darren


After reviewing the install video, I realized it is possible to install the bump stop nut incorrectly. I had the whole assembly under the lock ring instead of sandwiched between it. After I corrected it, the fork is now silent.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

First ride today on my 140 Pike and it's close to what I was looking for. The first couple of inches are plush, but it quickly ramps up too much for me . I have the black spring with 0 PSI in the chamber. Even after a long chunky high speed downhill, there was no bottoming. I'm 194 and probably 205 with gear and water. Should I go down one or two spring sizes? I originally ran about 45 PSI in my stock Pike.


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I’m the same weight and prefer the green spring.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

jimarin said:


> I'm the same weight and prefer the green spring.


Huh, I'm 180 running the green spring with 15 or 20 psi in the bump stop and I use full travel fairly often. More than once on today's ride. This is a 160mm fork though. It's interesting how different setups can be for people.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

saucerboy said:


> Huh, I'm 180 running the green spring with 15 or 20 psi in the bump stop and I use full travel fairly often. More than once on today's ride. This is a 160mm fork though. It's interesting how different setups can be for people.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


180 with or without gear? I'm just over 180 with gear and ordered the green spring for my 150mm Pike. Sadly it hasn't yet arrived. What type of riding do you do?


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

lagerboy said:


> 180 with or without gear? I'm just over 180 with gear and ordered the green spring for my 150mm Pike. Sadly it hasn't yet arrived. What type of riding do you do?


180 without gear. I ride mainly in Santa Cruz, CA and it s mixture of fairly fast, sometimes rooty, trails and steep loam (when there is rain). Some drops and jumps but I'm not a big hucker. A few feet to flat will bottom out the fork for me though.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

saucerboy said:


> 180 without gear. I ride mainly in Santa Cruz, CA and it s mixture of fairly fast, sometimes rooty, trails and steep loam (when there is rain). Some drops and jumps but I'm not a big hucker. A few feet to flat will bottom out the fork for me though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


And I don't mean any of that about the kit to be negative. It's the best thing, by far, I've done for a fork including ayv dampers, push tunes, and endless fiddling with my setup.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## Jukas (Mar 30, 2016)

saucerboy said:


> 180 without gear. I ride mainly in Santa Cruz, CA and it s mixture of fairly fast, sometimes rooty, trails and steep loam (when there is rain). Some drops and jumps but I'm not a big hucker. A few feet to flat will bottom out the fork for me though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


I don't have an ACS kit yet, but I do have the elevensix. If you're bottoming out on small huck to flats I suspect you're undersprung. 180 without gear is that naked or in riding clothes but without a pack?

I'm right about 180 naked, but add at least 10lbs in clothes and kit before I'm ready to ride. It goes over 15+lbs on top of my base weight if I bring a fully loaded camelback instead of a hip pack. Each litre of water alone is another ~2.2 lbs.

Looking at the spring chart for 160 it looks like green covers from 180 - 200lbs and black starts overlapping at 195lbs with their advice being "aggressive riders hitting jumps and drops should consider the higher of the two".

My guess is a black spring will get you sorted, but you could always get fully kitted up and weigh yourself and talk to the folks at push for advice.


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

Jukas said:


> I don't have an ACS kit yet, but I do have the elevensix. If you're bottoming out on small huck to flats I suspect you're undersprung. 180 without gear is that naked or in riding clothes but without a pack?
> 
> I'm right about 180 naked, but add at least 10lbs in clothes and kit before I'm ready to ride. It goes over 15+lbs on top of my base weight if I bring a fully loaded camelback instead of a hip pack. Each litre of water alone is another ~2.2 lbs.
> 
> ...


Sorry, it sounds like I'm saying this is a problem. I was actually just surprised that some guys abive, who are a fair amount heavier than me, were saying they thought they needed the green spring. I'm 178-180 naked and 193 geared up when I measured before ordering.

When I say I'm using full travel I mean that that o ring is showing full travel but I don't necessarily feel like I'm bottoming out. I've only bottomed it out once or twice and that was a on decent size huck to flat. If I were feeling that regularly I'd pump a bit more air in the bump stop. As it is, other than some fine tuning of compression and rebound, I'm really happy with the kit.

If someone gave me a black spring to try for free I'd be happy to test it out but I think the green is right for me.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

saucerboy said:


> Sorry, it sounds like I'm saying this is a problem. I was actually just surprised that some guys abive, who are a fair amount heavier than me, were saying they thought they needed the green spring. I'm 178-180 naked and 193 geared up when I measured before ordering.
> 
> When I say I'm using full travel I mean that that o ring is showing full travel but I don't necessarily feel like I'm bottoming out. I've only bottomed it out once or twice and that was a on decent size huck to flat. If I were feeling that regularly I'd pump a bit more air in the bump stop. As it is, other than some fine tuning of compression and rebound, I'm really happy with the kit.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that two different riders the same weight and same riding level and conditions could end up on different springs. Bar height, reach and how far over the front a rider rides can significantly affect the rate they need. This doesn't even get into preferences of soft on top with ramp up v firmer but more linear.

That said, the good thing about coils is they usually still work great even if the rate is not optimal. Look at all the completely undersprung Marzocchis people loved.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Cary said:


> Keep in mind that two different riders the same weight and same riding level and conditions could end up on different springs. Bar height, reach and how far over the front a rider rides can significantly affect the rate they need. This doesn't even get into preferences of soft on top with ramp up v firmer but more linear.
> 
> That said, the good thing about coils is they usually still work great even if the rate is not optimal. Look at all the completely undersprung Marzocchis people loved.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


how 'bout the completely oversprung Marzocchi's?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nhodge said:


> how 'bout the completely oversprung Marzocchi's?


Said nobody ever.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

well. i'm a nobody & i just said it. Marzocchi coils are all i'll ever ridden, since 2001. had to take out one of the 2 springs on that one, the Z1 Light was perfect for awhile, then needed a little preload, but never oversprung. my current 55 RC3 ti came w/ a 7.2 Nm, oversprung till i got a 6.0 Nm. friend of mine was on a 2004 Bomber something. we had to take one of the springs out. 
my experience, if you're in the 200 lb. range, you're in the Marz range


Cary said:


> Said nobody ever.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nhodge said:


> well. i'm a nobody & i just said it. Marzocchi coils are all i'll ever ridden, since 2001. had to take out one of the 2 springs on that one, the Z1 Light was perfect for awhile, then needed a little preload, but never oversprung. my current 55 RC3 ti came w/ a 7.2 Nm, oversprung till i got a 6.0 Nm. friend of mine was on a 2004 Bomber something. we had to take one of the springs out.
> my experience, if you're in the 200 lb. range, you're in the Marz range


See, I told you nobody said it. 

Wait, you mean to tell me there are people who weigh less than 200 pounds?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Cary said:


> See, I told you nobody said it.
> 
> Wait, you mean to tell me there are people who weigh less than 200 pounds?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


it appears, overtime, there are fewer & fewer


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Just ordered this kit for my Guerrilla Gravity Shred Dogg, it's going in my 160mm Lyrik RC! Rear shock is still a RS Super Deluxe RC3 but hopefully that will change some time in 2018...

I'll get an ElevenSix when there's a 50% off coupon


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> If you installed the kit properly I wouldn't worry. Depending on your spring rate it could be just the spring slapping against the side of the stanchion tube in an area where the spring doesn't have heat shrink tubing on it. I would suggest riding it around a bit to see of the noise is bothersome. As a mechanical system we can't always get rid of all of the noise. You night also try flipping the spring upside down as sometimes the heat shrink tubing is biased closer to one end of the spring and not perfectly centered.
> 
> Darren


Hey Darren. I've got a concern on my install. It happens on square edge hits. Trying to figure out where the clunking noise is coming from. It doesn't sound like a slap or anything is rattling. Please help.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

*Help...*






Hey guys. I hope the link above works. I just installed the kit and I've got a concern on my install. It happens on square edge hits and braking bumps. When the wheel is on the gound and compress it there is no loud bang noise. Just trying to figure out where the bang/clanking noise is coming from. It doesn't sound like a slap or anything is rattling inside. I'm pretty sure I installed the kit properly but I am going to open it back up tonight.

From other discussions with my friends and their kits, they have to push down on the top cap with quite a bit of pressure to get it started. Mine doesn't do that. BUT, I have installed the washers to see if that makes a difference but that didn't resolve the issue. The ride is quite harsh with multiple square edge hits, rocks, or braking bumps. That's where I feel it most.

Also, When I dial in rebound to full slow, the clank gets worse.

I know PUSH is out till after New Years, I'm hoping to open the fork back up and re install to see if anything came loose. Not sure if its the damper side but I didn't have this problem before the coil install. Just seems like it tops out fast or doesn't want to compress when the wheel is lifted off the gound.

2014 Pike
150mm travel
Green Push Coil
180 - 185 lb's riding weight
Fast Suspension Damper Cartridge


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

Did you read Raja problem on the above post? It could be you installed the lower shaft nuts incorrectly.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

From what Raja said: After reviewing the install video, I realized it is possible to install the bump stop nut incorrectly. I had the whole assembly under the lock ring instead of sandwiched between it. After I corrected it, the fork is now silent.

I'll take another look at the plunger assembly. I do remember taking the lock ring off, installing the plunger system and installing the circlip. I also remember making sure I can move the circlip in a circle to see if it was installed properly. Then using a wrench and a long socket tighting down the assembly to the proper torque. But I'll for sure take another look at this step.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

here's a question? Is there only way he preload cap can go on? Smaller diameter facing the coil right? I haven't check this part.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Any Pike user's with the installation out there that can verify which way the preload cap goes in? My buddy has one with the black coil and doesn't have a preload cap. The rest of my crew has the fox conversion and that kit looks entirely different. I'm pretty sure I installed with the smaller diameter pointing downwards towards the coil. In studying the video, it looks like he's installing it towards the top cap. So I'm thinking there's not compression being added to the coil and when I lift the front wheel and compress it its only compressing the top out coil and causing to unload pretty quick. I'm just thinking and I'm not home yet to verify.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

mmanuel09 said:


> From what Raja said: After reviewing the install video, I realized it is possible to install the bump stop nut incorrectly. I had the whole assembly under the lock ring instead of sandwiched between it. After I corrected it, the fork is now silent.
> 
> I'll take another look at the plunger assembly. I do remember taking the lock ring off, installing the plunger system and installing the circlip. I also remember making sure I can move the circlip in a circle to see if it was installed properly. Then using a wrench and a long socket tighting down the assembly to the proper torque. But I'll for sure take another look at this step.


When you install the plunger assembly, drop the main larger portion into the fork leg, install the circlip, then screw the locknut on. The circlip is sandwiched between the plunger and locknut.


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## YogiKudo (May 12, 2013)

No preload cap on Pike black springs. J


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

So me and 2 buddies took the fork apart and re installed everything correctly. I still have the same problem with the clang/clunk noise. What seems to happens is that when I dial in the rebound to full slow, the clang seems to get louder or more amplified. At this point, not sure what else it can be. We moved the damper/rebound shaft up and down when it was taken apart and that seemed to be ok. It's just a really awkward sound that I'll get on repeated hits. I'll have to wait from PUSH to see what they say. I guess I can re install the original air shaft to isolate that the problem is not coming from the damper side. Dang it.....


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## jdt086 (Mar 2, 2017)

Just installed my ACS3 today, Pike 160 with grey spring and it didn't come with a preload cap. Is it not needed on the grey spring?

Cant wait to take it for a ride, the Pike I put it in was way overdue for a service.


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## YogiKudo (May 12, 2013)

No preload cap on Black or Grey spring. J


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

mmanuel09 said:


> Hey Darren. I've got a concern on my install. It happens on square edge hits. Trying to figure out where the clunking noise is coming from. It doesn't sound like a slap or anything is rattling. Please help.


That noise certainly sounds like the top out stop was not installed correctly. The plunger assembly is installed, then the PUSH retaining ring, and then the nut is threaded onto the stop. The retaining ring needs to be sandwiched by the top out stop and nut.

My apologies as the instructions need to be updated for PIKE on the springs. Black and Gray springs do NOT come with a preload cap, but rather sit inside of the recess in the Air Bump Stop.

Darren


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

mmanuel09 said:


> Hey guys. I hope the link above works.  I just installed the kit and I've got a concern on my install. It happens on square edge hits and braking bumps. When the wheel is on the gound and compress it there is no loud bang noise. Just trying to figure out where the bang/clanking noise is coming from. It doesn't sound like a slap or anything is rattling inside. I'm pretty sure I installed the kit properly but I am going to open it back up tonight.
> 
> From other discussions with my friends and their kits, they have to push down on the top cap with quite a bit of pressure to get it started. Mine doesn't do that. BUT, I have installed the washers to see if that makes a difference but that didn't resolve the issue. The ride is quite harsh with multiple square edge hits, rocks, or braking bumps. That's where I feel it most.
> 
> ...


My old Fast Charger damper used to make that noise.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey Rick. Thanks for replying. Were you able to get it worked out? Can it be resolved with a rebuild?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Hi Darren. Thanks for replying. I reinstalled and made sure that the plunger assembly is installed correctly. I'm still having the same clunking noise. Do you think I should reinstall the air assembly to isolate if its coming from the Fast Charger Damper? Any way we can speak over the phone?


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

mmanuel09 said:


> ...Do you think I should reinstall the air assembly to isolate if its coming from the Fast Charger Damper?


yes.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

mmanuel09 said:


> Hey Rick. Thanks for replying. Were you able to get it worked out? Can it be resolved with a rebuild?


I just sold it as it got annoying. Cycling the damper fast by hand produced the noise.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

hmmm. I did cycle the damper when I had it opened and I couldn't produce that same noise. It might be the rebound cause when I totally close off the rebound the noise or clang gets amplified.


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## Little_twin (Feb 23, 2016)

Anybody have one of these in a lyrik yet? I'm looking for some real world feedback.


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

Little_twin said:


> Anybody have one of these in a lyrik yet? I'm looking for some real world feedback.


I preordered the kit for a 170mm Lyrik in November, and mine hasn't shipped out yet..gah Seems like there is people with Pikes that received theirs last week.


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## SaabG (Jan 4, 2012)

I have a 160mm and a 170mm Fox 36 fork. If I were to purchase a 170mm acs-3 conversion kit can it be fitted to a 160mm fork if I were to purchase a 160mm spring for it?


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Little_twin said:


> Anybody have one of these in a lyrik yet? I'm looking for some real world feedback.


I'll have some first-ride results in a week or so (2017 Lyrik RC 160mm)! PUSH guys just got back into work today after their scheduled New Year's vacation and promptly responded to my email addressing my concerns of having overestimated my spring weight. They're making sure my order ships out with an orange spring! I weigh 155lbs sans-everything . Another user had said he weighed 160lbs and was only getting 15% sag with the blue.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

SaabG said:


> I have a 160mm and a 170mm Fox 36 fork. If I were to purchase a 170mm acs-3 conversion kit can it be fitted to a 160mm fork if I were to purchase a 160mm spring for it?


don't quote me on this, but i believe each kit is travel specific as they are replacing the entire spring side assembly and not reusing the stock air shaft as the plunger.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

SaabG said:


> I have a 160mm and a 170mm Fox 36 fork. If I were to purchase a 170mm acs-3 conversion kit can it be fitted to a 160mm fork if I were to purchase a 160mm spring for it?


I am fairly certain the 170mm set up will work in the 160mm fork if it has the FIT4 damper. If ya got the RC2 fugetaboutit..
I believe PUSH was having issues with the 170mm springs making a racket and they are unavailable at the moment. 
Or something, I think.


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## Jammertime (Aug 14, 2014)

Does anyone have any experience yet running this in a Yari?


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## Jammertime (Aug 14, 2014)

I should say, I'm on the fence between dropping in a charger damper, or the coil spring in the Yari.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Jammertime said:


> I should say, I'm on the fence between dropping in a charger damper, or the coil spring in the Yari.


I have a Yari, if I were to upgrade damper I would go Avalanche. I emailed Push and they said the ACS3 is designed to work well with existing damper.


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## canadianwoo84 (Jan 1, 2018)

I had my 2015 Pike DPA RCT3 serviced, rebuilt and converted with ACS3 by S4 Suspension here in Québec. I weigh 166 lbs (naked) and plan on shaving a few more pounds over the winter so I got the blue spring. Can't wait to try it... this spring.


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## SaabG (Jan 4, 2012)

CUP-TON said:


> I am fairly certain the 170mm set up will work in the 160mm fork if it has the FIT4 damper. If ya got the RC2 fugetaboutit..
> I believe PUSH was having issues with the 170mm springs making a racket and they are unavailable at the moment.
> Or something, I think.


Well I'm pot out of luck on both accounts then as both of my forks are rc2. I don't feel that my nomad needs 170mm travel but if you have it why not right. I also feel like the clanging noise could easily be mitigated with a full length shrink wrap. I guess the only down side would be the added stiction of the wrap against the side wall.


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

S4 (Guillaume) is great to deal with. I’m sure he set it up correctly and it will do what it is suppose to do. 
I’m thinking of getting one from him as well to compliment my 11-6.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Rngspnr said:


> I have a Yari, if I were to upgrade damper I would go Avalanche. I emailed Push and they said the ACS3 is designed to work well with existing damper.


The ACS3 system is not designed around the open bath damper of the Avy. It also makes little sense to try and do both at a combined cost of about $800 when a lightly used charger damper combined with the push acs3 is what's recommended and cheaper.

Edit: Just realized you may have meant get the Avy damper only? Confusing that you said you talked to Push who recommended the stock dampers, then recommended the Avy-- I think I misunderstood.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> I have a 36 with ACS "cool kit" & PUSH damper tune and a Pike with ACS "cool kit", stock tuned for now
> 
> They are both superb
> 
> 36 is a tad stiffer, Pike is a tad lighter.


Sorry, I just have to ask. What is the "cool kit"? Thanks.


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## Jammertime (Aug 14, 2014)

pixel_nut said:


> The ACS3 system is not designed around the open bath damper of the Avy. It also makes little sense to try and do both at a combined cost of about $800 when a lightly used charger damper combined with the push acs3 is what's recommended and cheaper.
> 
> Edit: Just realized you may have meant get the Avy damper only? Confusing that you said you talked to Push who recommended the stock dampers, then recommended the Avy-- I think I misunderstood.


I think I�m just concerned about getting the coil while still using the MoCo damper. Would I be better served getting the Charger instead. Is a Charger Damper > Coil Yari?


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Jammertime said:


> I think Iï¿½m just concerned about getting the coil while still using the MoCo damper. Would I be better served getting the Charger instead. Is a Charger Damper > Coil Yari?


I really couldn't say for sure...I had a RS Revelation 140mm that had the motion control damper (2015 or 2016) on my RIP 9 RDO and honestly the fork felt great. I'd go for the ACS3 kit if it were me. You can always upgrade the damper later if you aren't fully satisfied.

HURRY UP FEDEX!!!!!!







Gotta run to Autozone for a 32mm socket, didn't realize the new air bump stop wasn't going to use a 24mm socket like the stock part.

Edit:

Log Entry 1
Day 1 - Time: 14:14
Mental State: Uncertain

Traveled to three different automotive stores before finding a 32mm socket. FedEx still hadn't arrived when I got home. No end to the waiting in sight. Venting to anonymous fellow-riders on the interwebs while enjoying a brew from my first ever growler seems to be my only respite from the anxiety of having my Lyrik disassembled. More on that matter-- did something wrong with disassembly and created a vacuum in the air spring that caused an ear-ringing bang when I forced the air spring out-- woke up wife who still hadn't touched her coffee which I'd painstakingly scooped from the local grocery tin. 'F5' key is losing its luster due to repeated usage on my tracking number site.

--End of Entry--

Edit:

I went on my first ride with the ACS3 installed last night. I did 6 miles of trail riding. I've got the orange coil at 155lbs. I left my air bump stop at stock psi, presumably 20. I find that my preload with this spring rate is 20-22% which is more sag than I had been riding with previously (82 psi, ~19% sag). I'm not sure about adding preload spacers under the air bump stop-- I think I'll probably leave that alone.

Riding, it didn't feel like I was too far into the suspension, which it has before when I experimented with lower airspring pressures like 70psi which had given me an equivalent 22% sag, but with none of the positive ride characteristics of coil.

I kept my Low Speed Compression Damping and Rebound settings identical to how I had everything set up when I was on the 160mm airspring:
• 2/13 clicks of LSC Damping (Lyrik RC Model where the large blue knob controls LSC vs the RCT3's small black dial)
• 8/20 clicks of Rebound Damping Applied (I view 0 clicks of damping applied as the unrestricted hare position). This setting prevented landing kickup/recoil for me.

Post-ride impressions are that the rebound and LSC setting are going to take a bit more time to tune than the air setting did, though I'm sure I can still knock it out on a couple of 2-3 hour rides if I stop and take notes. LSC Damping definitely got a huge buff to its usable range. Doing a stationary arm-pump compression test, the fork doesn't lock out and get harsh when increasing the LSC Damping nearly to the degree that the air-tuned LSC does.

Ride Quality itself was a whole other animal. One thing this kit did which I hadn't been expecting was change the sound of my riding...The coil system itself doesn't make a sound and I guess those gushy air sounds of the past were the airspring compressing rather than the damper doing it's work. I get what people mean when they say things along the lines of "you're more aware/in tune with what's happening underneath you but the small bumps and chatter disappear"-- because the fork is now so incredibly active on smaller stuff. I noticed a much bigger difference while climbing than I expected to and found myself testing the limits of how big of a rock I could whack with my front wheel without being able to feel the damn thing, at least in comparison to how slamming the front into a rock on air would feel. It's basically as if every time the front tire makes contact with a rock during a climb, the coil pops out a little shrink ray and makes the obstacle 75% smaller. That's how it felt to me anyway. I'm very curious how increasing my LSC damping will decrease this effect, making it more harsh. I think I'll definitely end up adding more LSC damping to get a more firm platform in hard berm cornering, popping off of things etc-- I'm not that in tune to feeling fork dive after just the first ride, but my thoughts are I'll be able to firm it up without ruining ride quality.

And what you've all been waiting for, the downhill! Holy moly does this thing track. at 155lbs, just 7 years of riding experience, the Lyrik chassis is more than enough for me. I felt much more comfortable at speed flying down the local 268ft elevation drop over 7 loose, rocky switchbacks (I usually feel great, but I felt that much better). My face, hands and arms weren't being shaken like they usually are and I could really feel how that allowed me to focus better on going faster. It's not like I was losing out on being able to pop and jump off of stuff either. Generally I'm getting so roughed up by that descent that I'm just holding on as best I can when I decide to bump-jump some of the larger embedded rocks. Doing that last night felt a lot better, but I didn't do much of it since I was just focused on the crazy lack of harsh feedback I've grown accustomed to.

Alright, gotta make coffee-- I'll be riding later today as well. A big takeaway from last night's ride was "$#!T I need a coil in the back!".


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> The original spring/preload cap/bump stop interface(which didn't fit in the Lyrik) was a different design that had been changed during the prototyping phase. The new system, which is currently what you see in production, made room for the Lyrik/Yari fit. This little tidbit of information wasn't caught until after the fact when a different engineer looked at the Lyrik with the new interface and said "hey, have a look a this!". We figured no one would complain!
> 
> Yes, similar to our FFS that we offer for FOX. More details coming soon when everything is ready to be loaded to the website.
> 
> ...


Darren, it would seem that the ACS3 kit will remove the Pike Dual on the fly travel adjust capability? Is that correct?


----------



## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Davide said:


> Darren, it would seem that the ACS3 kit will remove the Pike Dual on the fly travel adjust capability? Is that correct?


it still removes and replaces everything in the spring side leg which includes all previous functionality.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

pixel_nut said:


> The ACS3 system is not designed around the open bath damper of the Avy. It also makes little sense to try and do both at a combined cost of about $800 when a lightly used charger damper combined with the push acs3 is what's recommended and cheaper.
> 
> Edit: Just realized you may have meant get the Avy damper only? Confusing that you said you talked to Push who recommended the stock dampers, then recommended the Avy-- I think I misunderstood.


Yeah. Sorry for the confusion.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Great review. Just two comments. First this:



pixel_nut said:


> I left my air bump stop at stock psi, presumably 20.


Maybe not 20? I didn't get the kit but with my Fox 36 direct from PUSH I got a card with the settings they put on it, including setting the air bump stop to 10psi. I bumped it up to 20.

Secondly ...



pixel_nut said:


> A big takeaway from last night's ride was "$#!T I need a coil in the back!".


I had the same feeling, except it was after riding my 11-6 and having to wait a month or two for the ACS-3 fork.


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

TB, Why did you bump it up to 20psi vs factory setting at 10psi?...just wondering.



tbmaddux said:


> Great review. Just two comments. First this:
> 
> Maybe not 20? I didn't get the kit but with my Fox 36 direct from PUSH I got a card with the settings they put on it, including setting the air bump stop to 10psi. I bumped it up to 20.
> 
> ...


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

Darren, any updates on when the 170mm Lyrik kits will start shipping out? I had emailed the sales team last week about my order and they weren't sure when.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Lowball said:


> TB, Why did you bump it up to 20psi vs factory setting at 10psi?...just wondering.


10psi seemed kinda low, and it doesn't feel harsh at all at 20psi, so I'd rather have a little more ramp-up. I've bottomed it out only once to-date on a good-sized jump to an uphill landing (huck to face). Decent-sized drops to flat (5-7ft, haven't measured to be very sure of the height) still leave me with 5mm or more of travel left.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

tbmaddux said:


> Great review. Just two comments. First this:
> 
> *Maybe not 20?* I didn't get the kit but with my Fox 36 direct from PUSH I got a card with the settings they put on it, including setting the air bump stop to 10psi. I bumped it up to 20.
> 
> ...


Ah, I got no such settings card as I installed the kit myself and just went off the Lyrik install video where Darren stated 20psi was what they shipped them out with. In any case, I just upped mine to 35 and I'll be testing that-- when you hook up a shock pump, you really can't tell what the psi was at previously since you're introducing the volume of the hose. So really, I'm not sure what the psi was at.

I've bottomed out twice in instances where I didn't feel like I should have, and I'm almost positive this will rectify my problem-- probably even decreasing the pressure some more. That being said, if it doesn't, I could possibly need to go up to a blue coil, but I think that with the air bump-stop's flexibility I'll be able to find a pressure that suits me.

After the 3 rides I've gotten in, the forgiveness this fork now offers is astounding. I let my friend who has a Pike on his Hightower mess about on some downhills and trail, climbing as well. His main notes were how well everything tracked at speed doing DH stuff, echoing my sentiments about endless traction. 100% sure he's really jealous haha!


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

PUSHIND said:


> The Black and Grey springs are the burliest and are prone to the most noise. Putting some thicker grease near the shrink wrap will help for sure.
> Darren


Hey Darren just installed my ACS3 green spring into some 18 160mm travel 36's. Can you confirm it's no mal that I get quite a pronounced click about 1/2 to 3/4 through the travel on the bigger hits. Just normal riding it's fine but even in the car park if I give it a good shove it clicks quite loudly. Given everything else on my bike is super silent, including silent free hubs it will **** me somewhat. That said it feels insane and paired with my ElevenSix on a new Evil Wreckoning I don't know that I'll ever own another bike it all feels so good.

Also just some feedback. I think you need to make it clear that the 18 forks differ in the set up to the ones in the video. I'm a novice to suspension but fitted the kit myself. I had to call NS dynamics to work out that you couldn't pull out the upper spring assembly from the top of the stanchion with the 18 forks. Again someone with more experience might know this but for me it wasn't obvious and I was scratching my head for a while. Maybe just a loose page dropped into the fitting guide saying hey dudes if your fork is an 18 on you'll need to do it this way. Please note this is not a criticism, just some feedback, take it or leave it. Other than that it was pretty straight forward.

Cheers mate, Scott.


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

EsPeGe said:


> Hey Darren just installed my ACS3 green spring into some 18 160mm travel 36's. Can you confirm it's no mal that I get quite a pronounced click about 1/2 to 3/4 through the travel on the bigger hits. Just normal riding it's fine but even in the car park if I give it a good shove it clicks quite loudly. Given everything else on my bike is super silent, including silent free hubs it will **** me somewhat. That said it feels insane and paired with my ElevenSix on a new Evil Wreckoning I don't know that I'll ever own another bike it all feels so good.
> 
> Cheers mate, Scott.


What psi you running in your bump stop?
I have the Pike kit @ 160. I started with the black spring. It was too stiff, wasnt using nearly enough travel and zero psi in the bump stop. I dropped down to the green spring - much better for me. However, I'm now running about 30psi in the bump stop. During the latter half of travel, I get a noticeable click as well. Was driving me nuts. After thinking about it a bit, I let the air out of the bump stop and the click went away. So, I'm thinking the click is the sound of the lower ACS3 assembly engaging the air bump stop. I guess I could be wrong about that - someone from PUSH will likely chime in. 
I'd say as a test, do what I did and let the air out and see if it goes away. If it does, at least you know what's causing it. If it doesn't, sounds like there's another problem. A buddy of mine had a click in travel on his PIKE kit too. Wound up being some issue with his fast damper...
Edit: I don't think the sound I'm getting which I'm sure is the bump stop engaging is any sort of issue and it def doesn't cause any performance issues.


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## r34 gtr (Aug 10, 2011)

I have a 2018 Fox 36 with a blue spring and can fit it though the top
of the stanchion. 
Also, try flipping the spring around and apply some grease to it. Mine doesn’t make a sound and works awesome! 
I rode a mates bike with a standard 18 Fox factory 36 and the coil was so much better.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

sdt0012 said:


> What psi you running in your bump stop?
> I have the Pike kit @ 160. I started with the black spring. It was too stiff, wasnt using nearly enough travel and zero psi in the bump stop. I dropped down to the green spring - much better for me. However, I'm now running about 30psi in the bump stop. During the latter half of travel, I get a noticeable click as well. Was driving me nuts. After thinking about it a bit, I let the air out of the bump stop and the click went away. So, I'm thinking the click is the sound of the lower ACS3 assembly engaging the air bump stop. I guess I could be wrong about that - someone from PUSH will likely chime in.
> I'd say as a test, do what I did and let the air out and see if it goes away. If it does, at least you know what's causing it. If it doesn't, sounds like there's another problem. A buddy of mine had a click in travel on his PIKE kit too. Wound up being some issue with his fast damper...
> Edit: I don't think the sound I'm getting which I'm sure is the bump stop engaging is any sort of issue and it def doesn't cause any performance issues.


I'm currently running the recommended 20PSI. I'll do what you say to see what happens but I don't want to be running much lower in the ABS I think. I've got two days in the bike park coming up on Tuesday and Wednesday with perfect weather forecast so I'll get it dialled in then. I'll report back. Thanks for the info.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

r34 gtr said:


> I have a 2018 Fox 36 with a blue spring and can fit it though the top
> of the stanchion.
> Also, try flipping the spring around and apply some grease to it. Mine doesn't make a sound and works awesome!
> I rode a mates bike with a standard 18 Fox factory 36 and the coil was so much better.


Sorry I might not have been clear. Before installing the spring I had to remove the air system. In the video Darren removes the upper air spring assembly from the top left of the fork. Thing is, he's working with a 15-17 fork from what I've been told. On the 18 forks (I'm guessing due to the Evol) this is different. You simply remove the o clip thing on the bottom of the fork and everything comes out the bottom. I didn't know this and was trying to work out how I got the "upper air spring assembly" until I spoke with my local Push distributor. As I said, I'm a rookie at suspension.

I'll try flipping the spring and greasing it to see what happens.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers Scott.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

EsPeGe said:


> Sorry I might not have been clear. Before installing the spring I had to remove the air system. In the video Darren removes the upper air spring assembly from the top left of the fork. Thing is, he's working with a 15-17 fork from what I've been told. On the 18 forks (I'm guessing due to the Evol) this is different. You simply remove the o clip thing on the bottom of the fork and everything comes out the bottom. I didn't know this and was trying to work out how I got the "upper air spring assembly" until I spoke with my local Push distributor. As I said, I'm a rookie at suspension.
> 
> I'll try flipping the spring and greasing it to see what happens.
> 
> ...


On the Push video Darren only removes the transfer rod assembly from the top and removes the air shaft from the bottom. Maybe you had an extra beer while you were watching!


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

blcman said:


> On the Push video Darren only removes the transfer rod assembly from the top and removes the air shaft from the bottom. Maybe you had an extra beer while you were watching!


Wish I could say that was the problem as I said I'm a rookie BUT I just went back and watched it and Darren clearly says "upper air assembly" at 2:07 in the fox 36 video. Now I know I said "upper air SPRING assembly" but potato/potato (mmmm that doesn't really work here) so that's what I ran with. Point is on the 18 model you only remove the top cap and any volume spacers, nothing else. EVERYTHING else drops out the bottom. Remember I'm new to this so you guys with experience would be like "oh ok that's that bit and it comes out here" but I had no idea. Given the installation is pretty easy my confusion not withstanding I'm betting others will give it a go too so it might be nice to just chuck in something saying that 18 forks are different so you can skip to step number ......

Cheers Scott.


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## Jg144 (Oct 9, 2016)

2018 fox 36 needs the adapter installed that comes in the kit.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

Jg144 said:


> 2018 fox 36 needs the adapter installed that comes in the kit.
> View attachment 1177704


yep did that.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

sdt0012 said:


> What psi you running in your bump stop?
> I have the Pike kit @ 160. I started with the black spring. It was too stiff, wasnt using nearly enough travel and zero psi in the bump stop. I dropped down to the green spring - much better for me. However, I'm now running about 30psi in the bump stop. During the latter half of travel, I get a noticeable click as well. Was driving me nuts. After thinking about it a bit, I let the air out of the bump stop and the click went away. So, I'm thinking the click is the sound of the lower ACS3 assembly engaging the air bump stop. I guess I could be wrong about that - someone from PUSH will likely chime in.
> I'd say as a test, do what I did and let the air out and see if it goes away. If it does, at least you know what's causing it. If it doesn't, sounds like there's another problem. A buddy of mine had a click in travel on his PIKE kit too. Wound up being some issue with his fast damper...
> Edit: I don't think the sound I'm getting which I'm sure is the bump stop engaging is any sort of issue and it def doesn't cause any performance issues.


Tried it, dropped to 5PSI and it's still there mate. I think you are right in that it's the bump stop engaging but I gave it all it's first real test ride today and I don't like it. I find it very off putting to get this loud click as I compress on a jump for example. I'm going to pull the spring and give it a grease but I suspect it's not going to change it. Apart from the click it feels really damn good but things like that really bug the sh!t out of me to the point that I would consider ripping it out. It's only been in a short time so I figure I can still drop everything back in. I'll email Push and get their take. My opinion is that it shouldn't do this so I hope they've got a fix.

Cheers Scott.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

So I got in my first ride on my '17 Fox 36 with the ACS3 coil. They put me at a blue spring, though I'm right on the high end for that spring. I installed it with zero preload spacers and set 25psi in the bump stop as a starting point - though it was with an analog pump which only has 3 marks between 0 and 50.. anyone ever notice that? I checked my other pump and it's the same. 

Anyway, I'm using full travel pretty much every trail segment. It's feels smooth, and isn't bottoming out hard enough that I felt it per se, but as close as you can get. I rode a good mix of smoother flow (thanks to rain this week) with jumps and drops to rocky gnar (up and down) and even a couple "huck to flat" type jumps. Overall, I really loved the feel but it seems like I shouldn't use up all the travel that easily. Maybe shoulda took the green pill (coil)?

I also noticed the bike felt much different in terms of traction front to back. I was running fresh rubber on the back, going from an e123 TRS+ to a 2.5 Maxxis Aggressor, but there was something different in the way the bike felt that I don't think could be accounted for by the tire change. I need more rides to really figure it out but I figured someone might have some insight on how the coil might affect the feel of the bike beyond the obvious front wheel traction and suppleness. Thoughts?

Oh, and as far as click... I don't notice one on mine with the bump stop PSI set above stock. It seems odd (looking at the design) that the stop would make noise as it engages. Have you take it out and verified that if clicks when you compress it?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

EsPeGe said:


> Hey Darren just installed my ACS3 green spring into some 18 160mm travel 36's. Can you confirm it's no mal that I get quite a pronounced click about 1/2 to 3/4 through the travel on the bigger hits. Just normal riding it's fine but even in the car park if I give it a good shove it clicks quite loudly. Given everything else on my bike is super silent, including silent free hubs it will **** me somewhat. That said it feels insane and paired with my ElevenSix on a new Evil Wreckoning I don't know that I'll ever own another bike it all feels so good.


Push have pulled the 170mm kit because of this. Darren mentioned earlier in the thread they are working on a fix.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Scott2MTB said:


> So I got in my first ride on my '17 Fox 36 with the ACS3 coil. They put me at a blue spring, though I'm right on the high end for that spring. I installed it with zero preload spacers and set 25psi in the bump stop as a starting point - though it was with an analog pump which only has 3 marks between 0 and 50.. anyone ever notice that? I checked my other pump and it's the same.
> 
> Anyway, I'm using full travel pretty much every trail segment. It's feels smooth, and isn't bottoming out hard enough that I felt it per se, but as close as you can get. I rode a good mix of smoother flow (thanks to rain this week) with jumps and drops to rocky gnar (up and down) and even a couple "huck to flat" type jumps. Overall, I really loved the feel but it seems like I shouldn't use up all the travel that easily. Maybe shoulda took the green pill (coil)?
> 
> ...


You need a digital shock pump to fine tune the pressure. Try upping your pressure too... isn't the max 50? I run mine with 15psi and barely use 3/4 of the travel on some downhill trails.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

Rick Draper said:


> Push have pulled the 170mm kit because of this. Darren mentioned earlier in the thread they are working on a fix.


Thanks for the heads up mate. I greased up the spring and it actually seems to have quietened it up but that's riding in the street. I'm at the bike park Tuesday and Wednesday so I'll be able to tell more then.

Cheers Scott.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

EsPeGe said:


> Thanks for the heads up mate. I greased up the spring and it actually seems to have quietened it up but that's riding in the street. I'm at the bike park Tuesday and Wednesday so I'll be able to tell more then.
> 
> Cheers Scott.


Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to get rid of all of the noise at it's just the nature of having a metal spring trapped inside a tube that is getting a ton of abuse. Generally speaking, the noise you may here in the driveway or garage really isn't that noticeable on trail.

Darren


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

PUSHIND said:


> Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to get rid of all of the noise at it's just the nature of having a metal spring trapped inside a tube that is getting a ton of abuse. Generally speaking, the noise you may here in the driveway or garage really isn't that noticeable on trail.
> 
> Darren


Hi Darren that's fine I get there will be a bit of noise and that I'll likely not notice some of it on the trail. It's the very pronounced click that occurs about 1/2-2/3 of the way into the travel that I want to get rid of. From what I've been told it's the air bump stop engaging and some folks get it, others don't. I want to stop that click. I can cope with a bit of noise every now and then but that click when you are compressing into a jump or similar is very off putting. Anyway I've dropped you guys a line via email to get more info so I'll go from there.

Cheers Scott.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

for those suspecting bump stop clicking, what psi are you running? also have any of you tried some kind of damping material on either the bump stop or plunger?


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

literally said:


> for those suspecting bump stop clicking, what psi are you running? also have any of you tried some kind of damping material on either the bump stop or plunger?


I'm not sure what it is but I've bern told it's the abs. I'm running 20PSI at the moment but I'm still early in the testing.

I've had a reply from Push. As usual their service and support is stellar. They suggest it's the spring and lubing the heat shrink will help. Alternatively putting some more shrink wrap on and even lubing it with a slightly heavier grease. I've greased it up and will see how it goes in the bike park the next few days.

Cheers Scott.


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## Marc_Encinitas (Aug 15, 2010)

Try increasing LSC one or two clicks if its bottoming out too frequently.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

So I lubed the spring and it definitely dampened the noise. It's not completely gone by any stretch but it's better.

Also I'm going to drop the ABS down 5 PSI to 15. Apart from the noise this thing is pretty good. A couple of days in the park will give me a better idea but so far I'm definitely impressed.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

Given the choice would you prefer to put this kit in a '17 Pike RCT3 or a '17 Fox 36 FIT4 3-POS? I currently have a Pike with scratches on one of the stanchions. I can either replace the upper CSU on the Pike, or buy a used Fox 36 for just a little bit more. Which one would be a better choice?


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

askibum02 said:


> Given the choice would you prefer to put this kit in a '17 Pike RCT3 or a '17 Fox 36 FIT4 3-POS? I currently have a Pike with scratches on one of the stanchions. I can either replace the upper CSU on the Pike, or buy a used Fox 36 for just a little bit more. Which one would be a better choice?


Go for the Fox 36 if you can do it. I had the Pike, then bought a 2018 Fox 36 from PUSH, and then a few weeks later the ACS-3 came out. I'm sure the ACS-3 in the Pike would be great; the damper is really good and I loved that fork. But the Fox 36 was noticeably stiffer in both torsion and deflection, and way more confident landing on drops on jumps. It was initially harsh though and that was down to the air piston seals, which the ACS-3 corrects.

With the ACS-3 I've also got lots more traction in high speed berms and whatnot so I'm riding yet faster, and that stiffness factor helps again. Plan ahead, you won't be sorry!


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

A couple quick questions...

1. are the coils interchangeable between different model forks? So, could I take a blue spring from a Fox 36 and stick it in a Pike?

2. Do you have to order a whole new kit if you want to change travel?


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

Scott2MTB said:


> A couple quick questions...
> 
> 1. are the coils interchangeable between different model forks? So, could I take a blue spring from a Fox 36 and stick it in a Pike?
> 
> 2. Do you have to order a whole new kit if you want to change travel?


Just an uneducated guess
1) no- My guess is the diameter of the stanchions dictate the spring size- Pike 35, Fox-36. There may be internals that dictate length also.
2) yes- The bump stops are marked for the travel they are designed


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

CUP-TON said:


> Just an uneducated guess
> 1) no- My guess is the diameter of the stanchions dictate the spring size- Pike 35, Fox-36. There may be internals that dictate length also.
> 2) yes- The bump stops are marked for the travel they are designed


re #2: Yeah, but can you just replace the shaft?


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

Scott2MTB said:


> re #2: Yeah, but can you just replace the shaft?


That is a question for Darren. I don't see the bump stop for sale individually. They are probably 75% of the cost anywho.
I know the Fox 36 160mm with the Fit 4 will accept a 170mm setup, but if you have the RC2 it will not.
I have the 160mm set up now for my 36 and will probably purchase the 170mm version when it becomes available again for park and shuttle days.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

CUP-TON said:


> Just an uneducated guess
> 1) no- My guess is the diameter of the stanchions dictate the spring size- Pike 35, Fox-36. There may be internals that dictate length also.
> 2) yes- The bump stops are marked for the travel they are designed


I use the fox 36 springs in my Pike.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Darren,

I'm at about 22% sag with the ACS3 in my 160mm Lyrik on a Guerrilla Gravity Shred Dogg. GG Recommends ~17% sag up front with my setup. Would installing one or both of the preload spacers on top of the main preload component be a good idea to reduce sag for me? I noticed in the owner's manual it states that the kit is designed to be installed WITHOUT these included spacers. I imagine there are only two included to prevent a harsh top-out?

Edit: Also curious...do these spacers technically reduce the total amount of available travel?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

pixel_nut said:


> Darren,
> 
> I'm at about 22% sag with the ACS3 in my 160mm Lyrik on a Guerrilla Gravity Shred Dogg. GG Recommends ~17% sag up front with my setup. Would installing one or both of the preload spacers on top of the main preload component be a good idea to reduce sag for me? I noticed in the owner's manual it states that the kit is designed to be installed WITHOUT these included spacers. I imagine there are only two included to prevent a harsh top-out?
> 
> Edit: Also curious...do these spacers technically reduce the total amount of available travel?


Those spacers won't affect total travel. The free length of the spring will be long enough. Back in the day with coil forks, you had dials that would push the spring down several mm's to get you to your preferred sag. They never had an issue.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

SaabG said:


> Well I'm pot out of luck on both accounts then as both of my forks are rc2. I don't feel that my nomad needs 170mm travel but if you have it why not right. I also feel like the clanging noise could easily be mitigated with a full length shrink wrap. I guess the only down side would be the added stiction of the wrap against the side wall.


Depends on the type of materal used for shrink wrap. Marzocchi Ti springs had a very, very thin wrapping that would crack after a long while. Anything thicker that's full length might start interfering with the spring (shrink wrap binding, altering spring rate)


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Darren do you envisage rolling the ACS-3 kit out to other forks like maybe other new coil ones recently bought to the market without any bottom out control?.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Anyone want to trade my orange Lyrik coil for a blue Lyrik coil? I'd love to save $80 haha! I shot myself in the foot when I asked Push for an orange instead!


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

Also wondering if heavier weight springs are still in the works. Specifically for the big boys on 140mm travel forks.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

I sent them an email about heavier springs a couple weeks ago. They are still in the works, but no timeline right now.


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

pixel_nut said:


> Anyone want to trade my orange Lyrik coil for a blue Lyrik coil? I'd love to save $80 haha! I shot myself in the foot when I asked Push for an orange instead!


Out of curiosity, what's your weight geared up?


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Time for a quick ride review... I’m 83-84kg fully geared, Pike 2018 with green spring. Went with 20 psi in bump stop, will raise that to 30 after using almost full travel. 
This thing really lives up to the hype, an incredible improvement. Like others on this tread I found myself charging at the roughest stuff after a while. Fork felt incredibly smooth and confident and much less prone to diving. 
Only fly in the ointment is a pretty loud clacking noise, my LBS trying to fix that with some extra grease as I type this. Hope that works, otherwise people will hear me coming from miles away.


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## EsPeGe (Jun 23, 2015)

lagerboy said:


> Only fly in the ointment is a pretty loud clacking noise, my LBS trying to fix that with some extra grease as I type this. Hope that works, otherwise people will hear me coming from miles away.


Mine was doing that too and the extra grease on the shrink wrap pretty much stopped it. I must admit I was surprised it worked but happy about it.


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

It worked for me too.


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

Hey Darren,

I was just wondering if the Damper Tuning for the Fox 36 RC2 Damper (Shimstacks) mentioned by you earlier, can also be carried out by TF-Tuned in the UK? I haven’t noticed it on their page so far.
Thanks!


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

pixel_nut said:


> Anyone want to trade my orange Lyrik coil for a blue Lyrik coil? I'd love to save $80 haha! I shot myself in the foot when I asked Push for an orange instead!


PM sent!


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

I own a 2016 180 travel fox 36 rc2 fork that I reduced to 170 travel. Can I use the 170 acs3 system on it? Thinking I can but not positive. Thank you


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

etacata said:


> I own a 2016 180 travel fox 36 rc2 fork that I reduced to 170 travel. Can I use the 170 acs3 system on it? Thinking I can but not positive. Thank you


If you purchase the 170mm ACS-3 kit, it'll come with the 170mm shaft for the coil side so the answer to your question is "yes".


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## Jloukas (Jan 27, 2018)

Was thinking of getting the acs3 Ive already got lyrik with avy cartridge, just wanna know how ppl are gettin on with the same combo, is it hat much better ?


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

Jloukas said:


> Was thinking of getting the acs3 Ive already got lyrik with avy cartridge, just wanna know how ppl are gettin on with the same combo, is it hat much better ?


I've posted this already but will again. I have a 2017 Fox 36 with both and it's fantastic. A "TRUE" set it and forget it setup. Some say it's not designed for the Avy as it's a open bath damper. Yes, that's true... the Air bump stop part of it anyway. The rest... a fantastic coil system that works perfectly with the Avy Damper. I just run 0 psi in the ACS-3's air bump stop as I have the ABS option on my Avy. I've tried it with air in the ACS-3's bump stop with the Avy's ABS option removed and it still works awesome as well but I prefer to not have to deal with air pressure at all. I'd get both again in a heart beat.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

for those with a 2018 fox36, what are you thoughts on the acs3 coil upgrade? i feel like my 2018 fox36's small bump compliance is pretty decent compared to the 2017 fox 36.


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

useport80 said:


> for those with a 2018 fox36, what are you thoughts on the acs3 coil upgrade? i feel like my 2018 fox36's small bump compliance is pretty decent compared to the 2017 fox 36.


Well just my opinion but I have one 2018 36 160 stock and the other one straight from push which is a 2018 36 160 with tune and acs3 kit. The coil is far better in every way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Anyone here running the fast damper in their pike/lyric along with the ACS-3?
Did you change your HSC/LSC settings much from how it was with the airspring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

got it installed! can't wait to go riding soon


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

PUSHIND said:


> Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to get rid of all of the noise at it's just the nature of having a metal spring trapped inside a tube that is getting a ton of abuse. Generally speaking, the noise you may here in the driveway or garage really isn't that noticeable on trail.
> 
> Darren


+1. I have a DVO Diamond and the OTT spring makes noise on harder compressions. Also starts to make noise as it gets more use. It lets you know when it needs service. DVO service video shows to put a big gob of grease on the spring to keep it quiet.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Any updates on the 170mm noise fix?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just ordered one of these through my LBS. Can't wait to get it and try it out on my hightower.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Samuel0073 said:


> I've posted this already but will again. I have a 2017 Fox 36 with both and it's fantastic. A "TRUE" set it and forget it setup. Some say it's not designed for the Avy as it's a open bath damper. Yes, that's true... the Air bump stop part of it anyway. The rest... a fantastic coil system that works perfectly with the Avy Damper. I just run 0 psi in the ACS-3's air bump stop as I have the ABS option on my Avy. I've tried it with air in the ACS-3's bump stop with the Avy's ABS option removed and it still works awesome as well but I prefer to not have to deal with air pressure at all. I'd get both again in a heart beat.
> 
> View attachment 1180374


So, if you have the Avy cart in your fork. And get the push coil. Everything is still in range to tune It?


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Got a couple rides on mine and have a question. I’m 83kg geared up and using green spring. I keep pretty much bottoming out on 2 foot drops even with 40psi in the bump stop. 
Could my LBS have done something wrong installing the bump stop? I did notice when I let out all the air that it was extremely quick to do so - although that might be perfectly natural. 
I’m just not sure whether the bump stop is holding air like it’s supposed to.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

lagerboy said:


> Got a couple rides on mine and have a question. I'm 83kg geared up and using green spring. I keep pretty much bottoming out on 2 foot drops even with 40psi in the bump stop.
> Could my LBS have done something wrong installing the bump stop? I did notice when I let out all the air that it was extremely quick to do so - although that might be perfectly natural.
> I'm just not sure whether the bump stop is holding air like it's supposed to.


The bump stop does not hold that much air. I would try a firmer spring first before thinking the bump stock may be defective.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

lagerboy said:


> I'm just not sure whether the bump stop is holding air like it's supposed to.


take it out and test it by hand.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

lagerboy said:


> Got a couple rides on mine and have a question. I'm 83kg geared up and using green spring. I keep pretty much bottoming out on 2 foot drops even with 40psi in the bump stop.
> Could my LBS have done something wrong installing the bump stop? I did notice when I let out all the air that it was extremely quick to do so - although that might be perfectly natural.
> I'm just not sure whether the bump stop is holding air like it's supposed to.


What sag are you getting with the green spring? If it's over 25% with the 2 pre-load spacers installed then you have the wrong spring. Darren states along with Fox that they want 15 to 20 percent sag only for the Fox forks.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

blcman said:


> What sag are you getting with the green spring? If it's over 25% with the 2 pre-load spacers installed then you have the wrong spring. Darren states along with Fox that they want 15 to 20 percent sag only for the Fox forks.


seems odd they would be so strict about setting sag at a certain % given that sag is just a starting point to get suspension dialed. 15-20% could cause plenty of riders to never use even 50-60% of travel if their terrain and riding style don't dictate that high of a spring rate. do they also have a 100% fool proof method to set sag if it's so critical? darren obviously knows what he's doing but for him to put a ceiling on something like sag seems odd.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

literally said:


> seems odd they would be so strict about setting sag at a certain % given that sag is just a starting point to get suspension dialed. 15-20% could cause plenty of riders to never use even 50-60% of travel if their terrain and riding style don't dictate that high of a spring rate. do they also have a 100% fool proof method to set sag if it's so critical? darren obviously knows what he's doing but for him to put a ceiling on something like sag seems odd.


I totally agree with you on the sag point! Most bike companies want a very specific sag range for the rear shock due to the leverage curve, usually in the 25 to 35 percent range. Forks don't have any leverage rate, but still you would think 20 to 25 percent sag would match up better to the rear.

I can run the blue spring on my 29'er fork (15% sag) and needed to run the lighter orange spring on my 27.5 bike (went from 15% to 20 % sag) as I was really having the front getting bounced around a lot. Both bikes have 150 mm rear travel! Go figure!

Anyway, I am wondering what sag the OP is getting, just for a starting point!


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

I haven’t been all that concerned with sag given that a) the spring rates are calculated based on rider weight and b) that the bump stop is designed to control bottom out, ie it only impacts the final 1/3 of the travel. Certainly when I was running an air fork I paid attention to sag.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Same here. Drop the spring in there and go ride and beat the **** out of your bike!


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

Christopher Robin said:


> Same here. Drop the spring in there and go ride and beat the **** out of your bike!


Fully agree! I stopped bothering and forgot about the fork once the coil is in. Spent way lesser time fussing about settings and more time riding as now it feels so so awesome!

Feels great in Singapore XCish trails so far. Gonna test it in Rotorua, NZ this week. EWS trails!

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Yeah this trail bike is the first bike I've ever bough that came with air suspension and I was thoroughly disappointed. The Float X2 was decent though!


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> So, if you have the Avy cart in your fork. And get the push coil. Everything is still in range to tune It?


The Avy cart is tuned to a riders weight so yes. Everything is still in range to tune it. I've tried changing the compression and rebound but felt great where I had it before the swap. A person can only gain by pairing it with their Avy Cart. Do not hesitate to get the ACS-3 if you already have a Avy damper. Another MTBR member decided to get the ACS-3 for his Avy'd Lyric and he too was blown away with the result.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Thanks for the Info! Yeah already got the cartridge.


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## JNKER (Feb 19, 2016)

Jaysrubi said:


> Well just my opinion but I have one 2018 36 160 stock and the other one straight from push which is a 2018 36 160 with tune and acs3 kit. The coil is far better in every way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That being said, is the conversion an equal choice to say a MRP Ribbon Coil? I have a 2017 36. Would anyone choose a conversion over a fork built as a coil fork?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

JNKER said:


> That being said, is the conversion an equal choice to say a MRP Ribbon Coil? I have a 2017 36. Would anyone choose a conversion over a fork built as a coil fork?


The conversion is about half the price of the MRP Ribbon Coil and from what I can find the Ribbon only comes in boost spacing ( I could be wrong) so I would convert the Fox 36! It's a no brainer for me!:thumbsup:


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

useport80 said:


> for those with a 2018 fox36, what are you thoughts on the acs3 coil upgrade? i feel like my 2018 fox36's small bump compliance is pretty decent compared to the 2017 fox 36.


I'm in the same boat as Jay. I've run mine since it first came out and have been really impressed. I actually converted my 36 back to air, so that i could swap it into a boost 36 that is on its way and I'm really missing the coil. I'm finding that the air is pretty close but it seems more inconsistent. With the coil kit I pretty much set and forget my dials. With the air I keep tweaking things to see if I can make it better. I'm also finding the neg spring keeps overwhelming the pos spring making it sit about 15mm into its travel at rest. It happens at least a couple times a ride.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

After a few rides in NorCal, I think I have my baseline settings dialed. Here are some specifics:

Bike: Small Evil Insurgent (11-6 shock)
Shock: Pike Boost RCT3 160mm
Rider weight: 135-140 lbs fully geared up.
Air Bump Stop: 20 psi (I played around with 15, 20, 25, and 30 psi).
Spring: Red
LSC: 5 clicks from full open (I used to run full open)
Rebound: 7 clicks from full open (I used to run 3 from full open)

My theory for the additional LSC and Rebound needed is that the removal of the air spring (and all it's seals and accompanying stiction), made the fork more reactive to bumps but it was also rebounding faster because of the lack of stiction. The fork also consistently rides higher in it's travel than the Solo Air.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

flipnidaho said:


> After a few rides in NorCal, I think I have my baseline settings dialed. Here are some specifics:
> 
> Bike: Small Evil Insurgent (11-6 shock)
> Shock: Pike Boost RCT3 160mm
> ...


May I ask what sag are you getting with the red spring?


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

flipnidaho said:


> After a few rides in NorCal, I think I have my baseline settings dialed. Here are some specifics:
> 
> Bike: Small Evil Insurgent (11-6 shock)
> Shock: Pike Boost RCT3 160mm
> ...


I was just about to ask if those that have tried the conversion kit were using more compression than before. My Pike feels really harsh and I have compression wide open too. Quite a few threads/posts claim it's due to an overly stiff damper tune while some believe it's the seal stiction. You obviously fall in the latter camp. Thanks for that info. Anyone else care to comment regarding this?

You are right on the line between red/yellow springs (as am I). Sounds like you are happy with red spring? I don't suppose you got to try the yellow too?


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

nightnerd said:


> May I ask what sag are you getting with the red spring?


I'm getting about 20%. I measure sag with the fork wide open standing up on the pedals in attack mode (not sitting on the saddle in XC mode).


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

aski said:


> I was just about to ask if those that have tried the conversion kit were using more compression than before. My Pike feels really harsh and I have compression wide open too. Quite a few threads/posts claim it's due to an overly stiff damper tune while some believe it's the seal stiction. You obviously fall in the latter camp. Thanks for that info. Anyone else care to comment regarding this?
> 
> You are right on the line between red/yellow springs (as am I). Sounds like you are happy with red spring? I don't suppose you got to try the yellow too?


I actually bought the yellow spring as well since I'm right on the cusp. However, I've found that the red has been great. I did bottom it out once so I added some air to the bump stop (I was running 15 psi and upped it to 20). Hit some more drops and the fork did not bottom. I'll use the yellow spring on days when I'm carrying a heavy pack and/or when I get hella fat.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

aski said:


> My Pike feels really harsh and I have compression wide open too. Quite a few threadgs/posts claim it's due to an overly stiff damper tune while some believe it's the seal stiction. You obviously fall in the latter camp. Thanks for that info. Anyone else care to comment regarding this?


Sorta. 2014 Nomad with stock 160mm Pike. It was always stiff when trying to set sag, to the point my dead weight wasn't enough and I'd have to pump it to break the stiction.

I have upgraded to the direct-from-PUSH Fox 36 170mm (haven't had any of the noise issues) with ACS-3 and it moves at the touch of an angel's breath.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

flipnidaho said:


> I'm getting about 20%. I measure sag with the fork wide open standing up on the pedals in attack mode (not sitting on the saddle in XC mode).


Thanks a lot! I'm about 7 lbs "heavier" than you and got the yellow spring. I haven't installed it yet but based on your set up, I think I'll be ok.


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## broccoli rob (Jul 3, 2012)

> The current kit will support up to 245lbs with our grey spring(60lb/in) in both the 160mm and 170mm configurations. Our spring chart is a little conservative for riders over 210lbs based on feedback.


How would this apply to the 140mm grey spring ? I'm 225lbs w/ gear but spring is rated to 215lbs. Do they run on the high side as well ? Thanks


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

I’m loving my ACS3 kit but I’m a little disappointed that there is no option to change the travel without buying a whole new kit. When you double the price of the kit, you now are getting into the new Fork price range. A Ribbon Coil (for example) comes with three springs, adjustable travel, and a warranty - which you voided when you put the ACS3 kit in whatever fork you have. I’m sure I sound like I’m hating but I’m not - I’ve upgraded two forks to the ACS3. I’m just suggesting to Push that they might consider either modifying the design so that travel adjust is possible with a replacement shaft or offering a significant discount on same-model kits for repeat customers who want to change travel.


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## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

Hi All, also after feedback on the Lyrik if possible. Cheers.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

pixel_nut said:


> And what you've all been waiting for, the downhill! Holy moly does this thing track.


Grrrr!

Are all you guys shills for Push? No one has anything bad to say about the ACS-3! How can that be?

I can no longer resist. I just placed my order, with 2-Day shipping. If all goes as planned, I'll be rockin' my new Push suspension on the trail this weekend.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

RustyIron said:


> Grrrr!
> 
> *Are all you guys shills for Push? No one has anything bad to say about the ACS-3! How can that be? *
> 
> I can no longer resist. I just placed my order, with 2-Day shipping. If all goes as planned, I'll be rockin' my new Push suspension on the trail this weekend.


I guess I'm to late with my review! It's the worst thing you ever could spend your money on!:nono:

Just kidding!:thumbsup:


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

for those running the black coil, how clicks are you running hsc/lsc/rebound? how much psi in the ABS?


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Anyone have a 170 kit they find too noisy and want to get rid of? I don't really care how much noise it makes if it works as well as the 160 kit. Fox 36.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

RustyIron said:


> Grrrr!
> 
> Are all you guys shills for Push? No one has anything bad to say about the ACS-3! How can that be?
> 
> I can no longer resist. I just placed my order, with 2-Day shipping. If all goes as planned, I'll be rockin' my new Push suspension on the trail this weekend.


Well, it is a heavier than a air spring... and it doesn't taste like bacon.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Streetdoctor said:


> Anyone have a 170 kit they find too noisy and want to get rid of? I don't really care how much noise it makes if it works as well as the 160 kit. Fox 36.


I'd probably buy a 170 Lyric blue spring setup from someone.
Art


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Ordered my ACS3 on Tuesday. It arrived yesterday at 3 p.m. An hour later it was installed. Today I rode. 

The difference was more evident than expected--everything from fast hardpack, modest bumps, big chunk, fast flow, and climbing the steep stuff--it was all much improved. The harshness on the bars is greatly diminished, the tire spends much more time hooked up to the ground, and climbing efficiency is not noticeably diminished. There seems to be no down-side to the ACS3.

It's funny because I thought my Float X2 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. If that was case, my ACS3 is the delicious turkey and avocado that goes between those slices. Now, with the front end performing so well, the imperfection of the X2 is more obvious. If Push made the Elevensix for an Ibis, I'd be tempted. Thankfully, they do not and I don't have to explain to my wife the credit card bill for more fancy bike parts.


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## WLB (Apr 25, 2011)

*lower leg service with ACS-3*

Hi Darren, gotta question (anyone else feel free to chime in also)

I have an Elevensix ordered for my Hightower (yummmm....Liquid Black) It's not here yet, & at any rate we're getting so much snow at the moment in northern Utah that it'll be a bit before I can ride it. Obviously have too much time on the forum & no self control so now considering the ACS3 to go in the 2018 Pike 150. Since I just built the bike up this winter, it only has about 120 miles & 13 hours on the fork. Have not really put enough time in on the Pike to have any great likes or dislikes, just considering the coil conversion to have the fork & shock the same.

Question is: Do you think there would be a benefit to ordering the complete lower leg service kit & doing that at the same time I install the ACS3? Would the ULF seals, etc be an improvement? Or should I just hold off another 30-40 riding hours & do the lower leg service & coil conversion then?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> 1. are the coils interchangeable between different model forks? So, could I take a blue spring from a Fox 36 and stick it in a Pike?
> 
> 2. Do you have to order a whole new kit if you want to change travel?


1. The coils are all the same. The preload caps and shrink wrap are different. We have specific preload caps for 36/PIKE/Lyrik and we add an additional shrink wrap band to the FOX springs.

2. No. You do need a new lower plunger assembly and ABS external piston.



> I'm at about 22% sag with the ACS3 in my 160mm Lyrik on a Guerrilla Gravity Shred Dogg. GG Recommends ~17% sag up front with my setup. Would installing one or both of the preload spacers on top of the main preload component be a good idea to reduce sag for me? I noticed in the owner's manual it states that the kit is designed to be installed WITHOUT these included spacers. I imagine there are only two included to prevent a harsh top-out?
> 
> Edit: Also curious...do these spacers technically reduce the total amount of available travel?


Sag is really a tool when you don't ahve any reference point. With our ACS3 we would recommend the spring guide over sag as it's just not super important. Ride quality shoudl be your gauge. Yes, we do recommend starting off with no extra preload. for th emost compliant ride. Add as needed. The preload spacers have no effect on full travel.



> Darren do you envisage rolling the ACS-3 kit out to other forks like maybe other new coil ones recently bought to the market without any bottom out control?.


Yes, we are looking at other applications, but we don't have any timelines at this point.



> Also wondering if heavier weight springs are still in the works. Specifically for the big boys on 140mm travel forks.


Based on feedback from riders we have adjusted our spring rate ranges. The new guide is up on the website under the "Support" tab.



> I was just wondering if the Damper Tuning for the Fox 36 RC2 Damper (Shimstacks) mentioned by you earlier, can also be carried out by TF-Tuned in the UK? I haven't noticed it on their page so far.
> Thanks!


Yes, they offer it. It's the same PUSH tuning they've been doing in the air forks.



> I own a 2016 180 travel fox 36 rc2 fork that I reduced to 170 travel. Can I use the 170 acs3 system on it? Thinking I can but not positive. Thank you


Yes, you will be able to.



> Any updates on the 170mm noise fix?


The good news is that we have a solution, the bad news is that it won't be available until late April/early May.



> Got a couple rides on mine and have a question. I'm 83kg geared up and using green spring. I keep pretty much bottoming out on 2 foot drops even with 40psi in the bump stop.
> Could my LBS have done something wrong installing the bump stop? I did notice when I let out all the air that it was extremely quick to do so - although that might be perfectly natural.
> I'm just not sure whether the bump stop is holding air like it's supposed to.


Hmmmm....that seems unusual. What travel fork is it?



> What sag are you getting with the green spring? If it's over 25% with the 2 pre-load spacers installed then you have the wrong spring. Darren states along with Fox that they want 15 to 20 percent sag only for the Fox forks.


As I mentioned above, sag is not very critical with this kit.



> How would this apply to the 140mm grey spring ? I'm 225lbs w/ gear but spring is rated to 215lbs. Do they run on the high side as well ? Thanks


We were initially too conservative on the spring rate ranges. The adjusted charts are up under the "Support" tab of our website.



> I'm loving my ACS3 kit but I'm a little disappointed that there is no option to change the travel without buying a whole new kit. When you double the price of the kit, you now are getting into the new Fork price range. A Ribbon Coil (for example) comes with three springs, adjustable travel, and a warranty - which you voided when you put the ACS3 kit in whatever fork you have. I'm sure I sound like I'm hating but I'm not - I've upgraded two forks to the ACS3. I'm just suggesting to Push that they might consider either modifying the design so that travel adjust is possible with a replacement shaft or offering a significant discount on same-model kits for repeat customers who want to change travel.


We do have an option of buying the lower plunger assembly and external ABS piston if you would like to change travel. Pricing and availability coming soon.

Hi Darren, gotta question (anyone else feel free to chime in also)



> I have an Elevensix ordered for my Hightower (yummmm....Liquid Black) It's not here yet, & at any rate we're getting so much snow at the moment in northern Utah that it'll be a bit before I can ride it. Obviously have too much time on the forum & no self control so now considering the ACS3 to go in the 2018 Pike 150. Since I just built the bike up this winter, it only has about 120 miles & 13 hours on the fork. Have not really put enough time in on the Pike to have any great likes or dislikes, just considering the coil conversion to have the fork & shock the same.
> 
> Question is: Do you think there would be a benefit to ordering the complete lower leg service kit & doing that at the same time I install the ACS3? Would the ULF seals, etc be an improvement? Or should I just hold off another 30-40 riding hours & do the lower leg service & coil conversion then?


Liquid Black Hightower ELEVENSIX.....good call! Our ULF seals are certainly a performance upgrade, but seeing hwo you really don't have a lot of time on the fork that's a tough call. If you already have assembly grease and lower leg fluid than you're all set, if not those items can initially be purchased separately through our site. The DIY kit is discounted because it's bundled.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Also.....Thanks to all of you for your feedback on our ACS3 kit. We really appreciate everyone's support and are really stoked that you all are digging it. It's also awesome to see all the discussions, settings, and solutions that you guys are coming up with. 

So that it doesn't get lost, we do have a solution for the 170mm kits finally and are looking to have them available end of April/early May. Sorry for the delays and thank you for your patience on that one. 

Again, thanks to all of you for your business!

Darren


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

PUSHIND said:


> We do have an option of buying the lower plunger assembly and external ABS piston if you would like to change travel. Pricing and availability coming soon.
> 
> Darren


That's great news. When I emailed you guys right before I complained about lack of ability to change travel, I was told I needed to buy a new kit. Thanks for all the updates and the great products!


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

WLB said:


> just considering the coil conversion to have the fork & shock the same.


I did both. ELEVENSIX first then ACS-3 as soon as I could afterwards. The outcome was precisely as you stated... made them the same*.

* i.e. both equally freaking awesome


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## labeltrader1122 (Feb 27, 2018)

did your bike feel unbalanced with coil rear and air front ? I ordered the acs-3 but push does not make the eleven six for my bike yet. I will have the f36 with push coil front fork and fox x2 in the rear.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> So that it doesn't get lost, we do have a solution for the 170mm kits finally and are looking to have them available end of April/early May. Sorry for the delays and thank you for your patience on that one.
> 
> Again, thanks to all of you for your business!
> 
> Darren


With the Charger damper tuning your going to offer on the Lyrik is the Charger 2 damper worth the upgrade or will the tuning basically get you to the same performance level? The new version apparently has a wider range of low speed compression adjustment. I'm waiting on the 170mm fix but way overdue to bleed this thing so thought I might just stick the new one in there. Thanks!


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## WLB (Apr 25, 2011)

PUSHIND said:


> Hi Darren, gotta question (anyone else feel free to chime in also)
> 
> Liquid Black Hightower ELEVENSIX.....good call! .....................
> 
> Darren


Thanks for the input Darren, really looking forward to getting that bad boy on the bike



> I did both. ELEVENSIX first then ACS-3 as soon as I could afterwards. The outcome was precisely as you stated... made them the same*.
> 
> * i.e. both equally freaking awesome


Yeah, that's what I figured In the interest of reason I'm going to try to ride it with the stock Pike until I need to do a lower leg service, then do the ACS-3, if I can hold off. Gotta stay away from the thread....


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

My wife is only 120ish pounds and constantly complains of jiggly eyes with her 2016 Fox 36 FIT forks (35psi). I want to upgrade her forks to the ACS-3, but am concerned that she will also need to spend even more money on a compression revalve. Thoughts?


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

PUSHIND said:


> Also.....Thanks to all of you for your feedback on our ACS3 kit. We really appreciate everyone's support and are really stoked that you all are digging it. It's also awesome to see all the discussions, settings, and solutions that you guys are coming up with.
> 
> So that it doesn't get lost, we do have a solution for the 170mm kits finally and are looking to have them available end of April/early May. Sorry for the delays and thank you for your patience on that one.
> 
> ...


Psyched to hear this! Gives you guys enough time to spec an 11-6 for the new Capra so I can do both at the same time


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

labeltrader1122 said:


> did your bike feel unbalanced with coil rear and air front ?


I wouldn't say unbalanced, which sounds more like mismatched spring rates. I would say that after a few rides I could feel the stock fork (Pike 160mm Solo Air on a 2014 Nomad) underperforming compared to the ELEVENSIX.


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## lawson (Apr 3, 2007)

Can anybody tell me the length of one of the ACS3 pike springs please?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> That's great news. When I emailed you guys right before I complained about lack of ability to change travel, I was told I needed to buy a new kit. Thanks for all the updates and the great products!


Yeah, we've made some adjustments based on rider feedback. I find that the easiest way to make better products is to listen to the end users.



> I did both. ELEVENSIX first then ACS-3 as soon as I could afterwards. The outcome was precisely as you stated... made them the same*.


:thumbsup:



> With the Charger damper tuning your going to offer on the Lyrik is the Charger 2 damper worth the upgrade or will the tuning basically get you to the same performance level? The new version apparently has a wider range of low speed compression adjustment. I'm waiting on the 170mm fix but way overdue to bleed this thing so thought I might just stick the new one in there. Thanks!


We're really behind on the Charger tuning. We're hoping to release information next week.



> Yeah, that's what I figured In the interest of reason I'm going to try to ride it with the stock Pike until I need to do a lower leg service, then do the ACS-3, if I can hold off. Gotta stay away from the thread....


Hold off? You don't like huge grins and high fives after ripping your favorite trails? 



> My wife is only 120ish pounds and constantly complains of jiggly eyes with her 2016 Fox 36 FIT forks (35psi). I want to upgrade her forks to the ACS-3, but am concerned that she will also need to spend even more money on a compression revalve. Thoughts?


The biggest improvements will come from the spring system not tuning. At that rider weight she has to run a pressure below what the manufacture would recommend as a minimum. This causes the positive and negative pressures to generally not balance properly leading to a fork that just doesn't ride well. I f you check, I can assure you that her fork is also not fully extending at that pressure causing a loss of travel. The best tuning in the world is good for 5-8% increase in performance. The ACS3 alone is good for 40%....maybe more in her case!



> Psyched to hear this! Gives you guys enough time to spec an 11-6 for the new Capra so I can do both at the same time


You won't be waiting very long.....



> Can anybody tell me the length of one of the ACS3 pike springs please?


All of the springs are roughly 12" long. Why do you ask?

Darren


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Would any one here want to swap an orange spring for a blue spring. I guess they are all the same sizes for Fox and Rock Shox and travel sizes. You just keep your preload cap and spacers for your particular fork.
My fork is a Fox @160 mm but again that doesn't matter so much.


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> ...The best tuning in the world is good for 5-8% increase in performance. The ACS3 alone is good for 40%....maybe more in her case!...
> 
> Darren


This seems like a dubious claim... Curious how you're measuring increases in performance to come up with those percentage values? Sincere question

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

incubus said:


> This seems like a dubious claim... Curious how you're measuring increases in performance to come up with those percentage values? Sincere question
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was just going to ask the same question 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## mrgto (Sep 28, 2008)

Math...... Duh!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

incubus said:


> This seems like a dubious claim... Curious how you're measuring increases in performance to come up with those percentage values? Sincere question
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's a lot that can be found with a shock dyno.


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

Cerberus75 said:


> There's a lot that can be found with a shock dyno.


That perfectly fair. We all [should] know that there are many ways to measure performance. My question to Darren is what measurements were used to come up with those numbers. Even if they were measured on a dyno, that wouldn't make it somehow impossible to explain.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

incubus said:


> This seems like a dubious claim... Curious how you're measuring increases in performance to come up with those percentage values? Sincere question


Right? I mean, like, when I ride my ACS-3, I'm 33.3% more stoked than before. But 40 percent? I don't think so!


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

incubus said:


> This seems like a dubious claim... Curious how you're measuring increases in performance to come up with those percentage values? Sincere question
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think Darren was explaining that if the fork was already working out of manufacturing specs, due to the lady being so light. then there would be a significant improvement if one of the light coils does work in this weight range, against a airspring that does not.

I'm guessing the % thing is just a term of speech.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

incubus said:


> That perfectly fair. We all [should] know that there are many ways to measure performance. My question to Darren is what measurements were used to come up with those numbers. Even if they were measured on a dyno, that wouldn't make it somehow impossible to explain.


It's measured with ride data. Specifically, increases in average travel being used, decreases in g-force/vibration at the handlebar, and changes in suspension velocities.

With modern suspension forks, most often properly servicing it will yield a higher performance increase than tuning it as fork deterioration plays such a factor. So when you send in your used fork for custom tuning and get it back and are amazed....well, most of that is coming from the service and an experienced suspension tech giving the proper settings, and not the actual damper tuning. This is why some riders are often underwhelmed by a new fork coming back form being custom tuned because their previous experience with a used fork was a much larger gap in performance.

Darren


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## r34 gtr (Aug 10, 2011)

I 100% agree with that... my lefty fork feels amazing after I service it every month!😂


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

I just ordered the ACS-3 for my wifes Fox 36. Will advise on the outcome.


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## labeltrader1122 (Feb 27, 2018)

Finally got my kit installed on my 36 but unfortunately its raining for the next two days. any reason I would get a grey vs black spring if im 220lbs on a fox 36 160?


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Another spring related question:

When installing new springs in guns, whether recoil, hammer, magazine, etc., they always seem excessively long. After a short break in, they become shorter, and then seem to stabilize at that shorter length throughout their lifespan. 

Will the fancy CrV-Si springs used in the ACS3 maintain their original length, or will they shorten a little bit as they break in? 

Specifically, I'm curious if the sag remain the same as on day-one, or if it will increase a bit.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

ULEWZ said:


> I just ordered the ACS-3 for my wifes Fox 36. Will advise on the outcome.


Awesome! Is this going in a FIT4, or RC2 fork?



> Finally got my kit installed on my 36 but unfortunately its raining for the next two days. any reason I would get a grey vs black spring if im 220lbs on a fox 36 160?


You should have received a Black spring @ 220lbs. Did you get a Grey?



> Another spring related question:
> 
> When installing new springs in guns, whether recoil, hammer, magazine, etc., they always seem excessively long. After a short break in, they become shorter, and then seem to stabilize at that shorter length throughout their lifespan.
> 
> ...


Our springs will not change length. Due to the incredibly high stress design of all our fork and shock springs, all springs are shot peened and preset during manufacturing.

Darren


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Awesome! Is this going in a FIT4, or RC2 fork?
> Darren


2016 fox Fit4 for my 120 lbs wife's intense tracer pro.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just finished installing an 150mm ACS3 kit on my pike rc for my Hightower 1. I removed a vorsprung luftkappe that was also on a 150mm air spring. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.

I do find that I have to perform lower leg services on my pike more frequently then on past forks. If I’m riding 2 times a week I can only go 2 months or so before the fork starts feeling harsh. I bleed it occasionally but it’s I’m not sure if that helps. It’s raining in Socal so I’ll have to wait until it drys to get a ride in.

P.S. Shout out to the Path Bike Shop in Tustin for ordering this for me.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> 2016 fox Fit4 for my 120 lbs wife's intense tracer pro.


Ok....that's a sweet setup. :thumbsup:



minimusprime said:


> I just finished installing an 150mm ACS3 kit on my pike rc for my Hightower 1. I removed a vorsprung luftkappe that was also on a 150mm air spring. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.
> 
> I do find that I have to perform lower leg services on my pike more frequently then on past forks. If I'm riding 2 times a week I can only go 2 months or so before the fork starts feeling harsh. I bleed it occasionally but it's I'm not sure if that helps. It's raining in Socal so I'll have to wait until it drys to get a ride in.
> 
> P.S. Shout out to the Path Bike Shop in Tustin for ordering this for me.


Yeah, that service interval should go away with the ACS3 kit.

Darren


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> I just finished installing an 150mm ACS3 kit on my pike rc for my Hightower 1. I removed a vorsprung luftkappe that was also on a 150mm air spring. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.
> 
> I do find that I have to perform lower leg services on my pike more frequently then on past forks. If I'm riding 2 times a week I can only go 2 months or so before the fork starts feeling harsh. I bleed it occasionally but it's I'm not sure if that helps. It's raining in Socal so I'll have to wait until it drys to get a ride in.
> 
> P.S. Shout out to the Path Bike Shop in Tustin for ordering this for me.


Is it a 2014-2015 (A1) Pike? The lower stanchion seals (inside the uppers at the bottom) were originally bad. The air spring side would let air into the lowers, and the bottom of the damper wouldn't hold the rod straight (got sticky in initial travel as it wobbled out of alignment and let oil out / air in) to the damper. Some after market parts and then later (B1) Pike parts fix that. My A1 with those parts didn't have to be burped or anything and was perfect.

But the ACS-3 on my 36 is a whole other level. I would love to try the ACS-3 on my Pike and see the difference there. No complaints about the Charger damper at all when it's not fighting weird seal problems.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## alex345 (Jun 14, 2008)

I have same prob with my 2016 pike. It is the seals between stanchions and lowers specifically. If I clean the top of them out real good, apply lube on stanchions, and cycle fork it feels better again -- for a ride or two.

You will still have same service intervals for lowers as before -- that part is just cleaning or changing those seals and oil to get dirt out. Nothing to do with damper or spring. The spring-side no longer needs any service of course!


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

alex345 said:


> I have same prob with my 2016 pike. It is the seals between stanchions and lowers specifically. If I clean the top of them out real good, apply lube on stanchions, and cycle fork it feels better again -- for a ride or two.
> 
> You will still have same service intervals for lowers as before -- that part is just cleaning or changing those seals and oil to get dirt out. Nothing to do with damper or spring. The spring-side no longer needs any service of course!


New seals are SKF and the same performance as Fox. You shouldn't have to be servicing them anywhere near that often. I was doing what you're doing out of frustration until I changed the lower seals. If you've already gone ACS, you may want to replace your lower damper seal. It comes in the Pike full service kit.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## WLB (Apr 25, 2011)

minimusprime said:


> I just finished installing an 150mm ACS3 kit on my pike rc for my Hightower 1. I removed a vorsprung luftkappe that was also on a 150mm air spring. It will be interesting to see the difference between the two.
> 
> I do find that I have to perform lower leg services on my pike more frequently then on past forks. If I'm riding 2 times a week I can only go 2 months or so before the fork starts feeling harsh. I bleed it occasionally but it's I'm not sure if that helps. It's raining in Socal so I'll have to wait until it drys to get a ride in.
> 
> P.S. Shout out to the Path Bike Shop in Tustin for ordering this for me.


I'll be really interested to hear your impressions. Ive got an Elevensix ordered for my Hightower & am struggling with the decision to just go ahead & do the ACS-3 conversion at the same time or ride the stock Pike & see how it performs. This is a 2018 Pike, put a 150mm air shaft in when i got it. I haven't really got it dialed in yet, as I just built the bike up this winter & only have about 150 miles on it. With the choices I made, (bomber but not light parts like Onyx hubs, WR1 Agent29 rims, XT drivetrain & brakes, etc) its already a little piggy considering the added weight of the 11-6, so not sure if a few more ounces on the fork would really matter if the performance & plushness of the coil kit are what most people seem to see. The rain you're getting is snow here in northern Utah, so im not riding the Hightower very soon either


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

TXNavy said:


> Is it a 2014-2015 (A1) Pike? The lower stanchion seals (inside the uppers at the bottom) were originally bad. The air spring side would let air into the lowers, and the bottom of the damper wouldn't hold the rod straight (got sticky in initial travel as it wobbled out of alignment and let oil out / air in) to the damper. Some after market parts and then later (B1) Pike parts fix that. My A1 with those parts didn't have to be burped or anything and was perfect.
> 
> But the ACS-3 on my 36 is a whole other level. I would love to try the ACS-3 on my Pike and see the difference there. No complaints about the Charger damper at all when it's not fighting weird seal problems.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


My pike is a 2017 Boost RC model. I previously had an A1 pike that I had to put the upgraded sealheads for the reasons you posted. This newer pike is far better, but I still find the pike insanely sensitive to lower leg service intervals.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Little update, the acs3 is installed and my first ride on the kit is this weekend. I'm doing the palm canyon epic in socal which has about 27 miles or so of downhill and includes everything but the desert kitchen sink. Lots of chunk, jumps, drops, steeps etc.

At any rate, I don't know what to think about the kit after initial setup and a romp around the neighborhood. Sag seems to be where I wanted, 25-27%, but if I throw all of my weight into the fork I can get the 150mm fork within 20mm of bottoming out. I don't remember what my pike did when I did this with the air spring, but i don't believe i was using that much travel. For reference, I have the anti bottom air chamber set to 50psi. I weigh 180lbs geared and I'm on the green spring.

*A few other interesting things to note:*
1) There is an audible click/clunk that occurs with my fork at about the 100-120mm mark in the stroke. It's annoying and I'm hoping that it's just spring wind up from torquing the top cap. 
2) The spring top cap came with 2 loose delrin like looking shims which I did not install. It seemed to have the equivilent of 2 shims that were fused to the pre-load cap. I wonder if I should have installed these, although as a general rule, I try to run as little pre-load as possible with coil sprung suspension systems, so I left them out for now.
3) This thing is heeaaaavy. I forgot to weigh my fork before hand, but it seems to have added about .7lbs to my bike overall. I'm not sure if my measurements are off or I added some parts in between measurements that's throwing it off, but that was way more then I expected.
4) I had to add 1-2 clicks of rebound damping to the damper side post acs3 install to get it to feel the way I'm used to. It'll be interesting to see where I end up after a day of tuning. 
5) LSC adjuster does not seem to be as extreme as before, but only testing will tell the whole story. with the air spring i could really only use 1-2 clicks of LSC on my pike RC, right now i'm starting just below half way on the adjuster.

Big shakedown tomorrow. I hope I end up liking this kit... Right now, I'm slightly regretting taking the luftkappe out.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> Little update, the acs3 is installed and my first ride on the kit is this weekend. I'm doing the palm canyon epic in socal which has about 27 miles or so of downhill and includes everything but the desert kitchen sink. Lots of chunk, jumps, drops, steeps etc.
> 
> At any rate, I don't know what to think about the kit after initial setup and a romp around the neighborhood. Sag seems to be where I wanted, 25-27%, but if I throw all of my weight into the fork I can get the 150mm fork within 20mm of bottoming out. I don't remember what my pike did when I did this with the air spring, but i don't believe i was using that much travel. For reference, I have the anti bottom air chamber set to 50psi. I weigh 180lbs geared and I'm on the green spring.
> 
> ...


I have the 140mm Pike with the Blue lighter spring and can't get full travel even with 0 psi in the chamber. I weigh 195 geared up. I'm surprised yours goes through the travel so easy. I was hoping mine would be more like yours and I would add psi to keep it from bottoming. The clunk sounds like you may not have the circlip ring between the two parts of the piston. It's easy to get all of the piston on one side. I didn't install any of the preload shims.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Raja said:


> I have the 140mm Pike with the Blue lighter spring and can't get full travel even with 0 psi in the chamber. I weigh 195 geared up. I'm surprised yours goes through the travel so easy. I was hoping mine would be more like yours and I would add psi to keep it from bottoming. The clunk sounds like you may not have the circlip ring between the two parts of the piston. It's easy to get all of the piston on one side. I didn't install any of the preload shims.


Do you mean the circlip that holds the spring shaft onto the uppers? I do know for sure that I have that installed properly and the spring shaft properly sandwiched over the circlip. The only reason I'm certain of that is that it was a ***** to source the proper 21mm wrench and deep drive socket that is thin enough walled to fit in the 21mm wrench opening. Ultimately, I had to take an angle grinder to both tools to get the clearances I needed.

I realize the packaging constraints and why they chose the sizing that they did... but it's a bummer that this kit requires such specialized tools. I literally have thousands of dollars in hand tools at my disposal, and the proper tools were not in my setup.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> Do you mean the circlip that holds the spring shaft onto the uppers? I do know for sure that I have that installed properly and the spring shaft properly sandwiched over the circlip. The only reason I'm certain of that is that it was a ***** to source the proper 21mm wrench and deep drive socket that is thin enough walled to fit in the 21mm wrench opening. Ultimately, I had to take an angle grinder to both tools to get the clearances I needed.
> 
> I realize the packaging constraints and why they chose the sizing that they did... but it's a bummer that this kit requires such specialized tools. I literally have thousands of dollars in hand tools at my disposal, and the proper tools were not in my setup.


Something doesn't sound right here. The kit uses a standard as standard could be 18mm deep socket, and 24mm spanner/cone wrench that are both off the shelf. There is no 21mm wrench needed or special thin socket.

Darren


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> Do you mean the circlip that holds the spring shaft onto the uppers? I do know for sure that I have that installed properly and the spring shaft properly sandwiched over the circlip. The only reason I'm certain of that is that it was a ***** to source the proper 21mm wrench and deep drive socket that is thin enough walled to fit in the 21mm wrench opening. Ultimately, I had to take an angle grinder to both tools to get the clearances I needed.
> 
> I realize the packaging constraints and why they chose the sizing that they did... but it's a bummer that this kit requires such specialized tools. I literally have thousands of dollars in hand tools at my disposal, and the proper tools were not in my setup.


Yes, that's it. The screw on nut sandwiches it and the body on each side of the snap ring. When I first assembled mine, I had the whole assembly on one side and it would make a loud pop when you first push on the fork.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Something doesn't sound right here. The kit uses a standard as standard could be 18mm deep socket, and 24mm spanner/cone wrench that are both off the shelf. There is no 21mm wrench needed or special thin socket.
> 
> Darren


Sorry about that, I was going off memory. It is indeed a 24mm cone wrench. Neither my LBS (The Path Bike Shop), my other LBS (Jenson USA) nor performance bike carry a 24mm cone wrench. I (maybe incorrectly) assumed that if those 3 fairly major retailers didn't have it, it was likely unfindable. Ultimately, I had to take a 24mm open end wrench and grind it down into 4mm of thickness so I could use it without interfering.

Regarding sockets, I have matco, snapon and craftsman deep sockets in my toolbox and the OD on all of those was too big to not interfere with the 24mm spanner.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> Sorry about that, I was going off memory. It is indeed a 24mm cone wrench. Neither my LBS (The Path Bike Shop), my other LBS (Jenson USA) nor performance bike carry a 24mm cone wrench. I (maybe incorrectly) assumed that if those 3 fairly major retailers didn't have it, it was likely unfindable. Ultimately, I had to take a 24mm open end wrench and grind it down into 4mm of thickness so I could use it without interfering.
> 
> Regarding sockets, I have matco, snapon and craftsman deep sockets in my toolbox and the OD on all of those was too big to not interfere with the 24mm spanner.


Something still doesn't seem right. This is how it should look when tightening down. The tools don't interfere with each other.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Something still doesn't seem right. This is how it should look when tightening down. The tools don't interfere with each other.
> 
> View attachment 1186681
> 
> ...


If you're trying to use a standard open end wrench they will. Standard open/box ends wrenches are 3/8" although you can find a few that are 5/16" in thickness. It basically means that with the wrench seat, you are forced into bike industry tools that may not be common.

24mm cone wrenches are hard to find, although i've now noticed that amazon has them (park tool brand) in singles so I'll order one of those up.

While we're on the subject, maybe I'm being picky, but it would have been nice to have the air cap side to be 24mm in lieu of the 32mm suspension socket. Maybe it's the endurance car racer in me, but the less variety of tools the better.

While I've got your attention... from a suspension tuning perspective, how much travel would you expect a rider to be able to extract with their own forces? By this I mean, no impacts from the ground, just riding along with the rider throwing all of their weight into the fork.


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

Got my ACS-3 in only a few days after ordering and already installed. Almost as easy to install as doing a lower leg service. After the first ride after install, my wife said the Jiggly eye problem is much better, but she is still only using half of the travel on her fox 36 160mm (red spring). I think I will try less pressure in the bumpstop next time. Maybe 5 to 10 psi from 30 psi. Thoughts?


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

ULEWZ said:


> but she is still only using half of the travel on her fox 36 160mm (red spring). I think I will try less pressure in the bumpstop next time. Maybe 5 to 10 psi from 30 psi. Thoughts?


Well I suppose it depends on how hard your wife hits it. I'm an ACS3 newbie and and getting my RC2 dialed in. It rides great, and I'm clocking some good times on it. But I'm still missing about an inch of travel. HSC seems ok, so I'm focusing on air pressure. I've gone from 11.5 to 10 to 6, without substantial change. My next step was going to be 3 psi, but my fancy Fox digital pump kind of dies out under 5 psi. So I bled it down to 0, and will see what happens there.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

ULEWZ said:


> Got my ACS-3 in only a few days after ordering and already installed. Almost as easy to install as doing a lower leg service. After the first ride after install, my wife said the Jiggly eye problem is much better, but she is still only using half of the travel on her fox 36 160mm (red spring). I think I will try less pressure in the bumpstop next time. Maybe 5 to 10 psi from 30 psi. Thoughts?


why start w/ any air pressure in the air stop? if she bottoms out, put the minimal in & air it up from there if she continues to BO until she's not. it should end up w/ the plushest ride possible.
good luck


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

It's a coil fork. The bump stop only controls the last 1" of travel or so. If you aren't getting to that the only thing you can change is the spring. Adjusting that air pressure won't change anything to increase or decrease mid travel.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Also open up the compression all the way, and slow down the rebound. But if she’s only using half the travel, then she’s either sitting on the back wheel all the time, or needs a lighter spring.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> While I've got your attention... from a suspension tuning perspective, how much travel would you expect a rider to be able to extract with their own forces? By this I mean, no impacts from the ground, just riding along with the rider throwing all of their weight into the fork.


It varies. I can slam nearly any suspension to the bump stops in a parking lot, while a friend of mine can't get half way with even a soft setup. On the trail.....good luck keeping up with him, and at 160lbs soaking wet I generally set him up 2-3 spring rates higher than standard. The bottom line is that test doesn't really translate to actual trail use.



> Got my ACS-3 in only a few days after ordering and already installed. Almost as easy to install as doing a lower leg service. After the first ride after install, my wife said the Jiggly eye problem is much better, but she is still only using half of the travel on her fox 36 160mm (red spring). I think I will try less pressure in the bumpstop next time. Maybe 5 to 10 psi from 30 psi. Thoughts?


I would reference the "much better" and not worry about travel. While in the MTB industry travel is often used as an indication of travel, it shouldn't. More than 70% of the trail time on a 160mm fork is spent using less than 100mm travel. At that rider weight our concern is getting the fork higher in its travel and increasing the compliance through the travel giving her more confidence. Having travel available is not a bad thing.



> It's a coil fork. The bump stop only controls the last 1" of travel or so. If you aren't getting to that the only thing you can change is the spring. Adjusting that air pressure won't change anything to increase or decrease mid travel.


Actually depending on pressure our bump stop will assist for approximately 2.75"(69.9mm) of travel.

Darren


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

PUSHIND said:


> Actually depending on pressure our bump stop will assist for approximately 2.75"(69.9mm) of travel.
> 
> Darren


Interesting! Good info, definitely didn't assume that. I thought it was specifically for bottom out control. So maybe instead of running 30PSI and bottoming occasionally at 190lb I should add a single preload spacer and lower the pressure? Black spring. I'd say I use 95% of travel on almost every ride. 160mm fork.


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## alex345 (Jun 14, 2008)

Streetdoctor said:


> Interesting! Good info, definitely didn't assume that. I thought it was specifically for bottom out control. So maybe instead of running 30PSI and bottoming occasionally at 190lb I should add a single preload spacer and lower the pressure? Black spring. I'd say I use 95% of travel on almost every ride. 160mm fork.


If use 95% of travel I'd use more pressure not less. I never want to bottom out unless I really mess up a big hit. At 190 lbs on a black spring for 150mm travel I run all the pre-load spacers and 40 psi in the air chamber. If I ride smooth I have 20 mm of 150 mm unused. It depends on how aggressive you ride, of course.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Ok well... I did my first real ride with the ACS-3 kit this last weekend. The ride was the palm canyon epic in palm springs california. In case you are interested, here is my ride report from last year when my buddy and i did this for the first time. PCE Virgins - Hero Conditions | imtbtrails

_*TLDR?:* The ACS3 Kit is a game changer. It's not without some trade-offs and I don't think the ACS-3 invalidates the vorsprung luftkappe in anyway. However the ACS-3 accomplishes many things over the luftkappe that justify it's price increase. Read on to get more info..._

At any rate... If you'll remember before I was fairly pessimistic on how this setup was going to perform. I felt that the change in feel in the parking lot wasn't quite as impressive as I was hoping and I was concerned that I was under-sprung.

*For reference:*
150mm Pike RC Boost - 29r
Santacruz Hightower
Rider Weight: 180, 185-190 Geared
Green Spring
ABS - Air volume - 50PSI

So the ride starts with a fast flowy section that has some 1-2' jumps and drops. Within the first 3 miles of the ride, it was apparent that I was on the wrong spring. i bottomed the fork hard 4-5 times landing from jumps and drops. The fork was making a audible clunk sound when I bottomed out. I was only running 2 clicks of compression damping on my RC damper at this point because I was used to the fork feeling excessively harsh when I added anything more then that based on the air spring. So I dialed the compression to the half way point and hoped for the best. I started the ride with the ABS system pressure at max (50psi) so there was nothing else to gain there.

The upper section of the trail gives way to about 8 straight miles of high speed downhill chunk. Lots of 4-8" loose and embedded rock with G-outs thrown in and several short but steep and chunky little chutes. I was concerned that the fork was going to end up feeling harsh because I was running excessive compression damping to make up for the under sprung rate.

After we charged the first chunky shoot and g-out all of my concerns were gone. The way the pike was absorbing and recovering from repetitive hits was mind blowing. It feels like a completely different fork and the way it tracks a line is a amazing. Even with the compression settings set half way (about 7-8 more clicks then I have ever been able to run with an air spring) the fork was not harsh at all. I kept experimenting putting more and more weight into my hands and thus into the front wheel and I never found the limit. I honestly can't believe the transformation that this kit has made to what I felt was a terrible damping circuit. Previous to this, I was convinced that the damping circuit was totally off base and a total miss from rockshox... turns out, they just missed on the air spring.

In addition to the increased performance... my hands never once hurt. I have always struggled with my hands getting beat up on high speed repetitive chunk. I was never sure if it was my 35mm clamp renthal carbon bars, the fork or my cabron wheelset. It's apparent now that it was 100% the fork and the ACS3 has fixed that problem.

I was blown away by how much weight I could have on the front wheel during technical slow speed chute descents. On the previous setup taction would get sketchy, not so with the ACS3. It rewards you for charging hard and just keeps getting you to push. I am blown away but the amount of confidence that this has added to the bike. The ability to load up the front wheel and have consistent suspension performance through the entirety of the stroke is a hugely exciting addition to my riding. I also feel like the fork is riding higher in it's travel on repetitive hits and it's helping to maintain the geometry and rider position on my bike which is bleeding over into other aspect of my riding such as cornering and braking.

*I guess I should backup and list my complaints about the pike in general and my previous setup of the pike with the luftkappe. I struggled with the following issues;*
1) Harshness during high speed repetitive hits.
2) Needing to run higher air pressure and less compression damping to combat the above.
3) Decent but not great line tracking and front end traction due to the above issues. 
4) A lot of feedback through the bars on low speed, technical rock crawling. 
5) Hands tired and beat up after 3 miles of chunky descents due to feedback through the bars.

I'm happy to report the ACS3 fixed all of the above issues. I just picked up a black spring from my local bike shop (The Path Bike Shop in Tustin CA) who now stocks the acs3 setups and the springs. I'm a little bummed because I reached out Push through my bike shop before placing the order and they were firmly recommended the green spring at my weight. Unfortunately, the kit ended up costing me an extra 80 bucks as the spring was not returnable. Maybe accepting spring returns with a 25% restocking fee could fix this problem?

*Cons:*
Well it can't all be perfect, I have to pick out a few things that are minor or are annoying:
1) It's not silent. It does not rattle by any means but there is an occasional click/clunk, especially at or close to bottom out. Only the bottom out clunk was un-nerving but even when bottoming, I didn't find that anything sketchy happened. Despite the noise the bottom out was fairly progressive.
2) It's heavy. this kit added 3/4 of a pound to my pike. Overall, I'd say the weight was worth it, however it was noticeable on my ride. My manuals are a bit off and I'm not quite pulling all the way to the balance point. Something that I am sure I will dial in with time, but it is noticeable at least on the first ride. 
3) I think the spring chart is (at least for the 150mm setup) is maybe a smidge conservative. It's likely hard for them to balance because we all want to think we ride harder then we actually do. For my case however, I should have trusted my instinct and sprung up one rate.

*Conclusions:*
I think most people reading this are likely looking for my opinion on the luftkappe vs ACS3 scenario. To that end I would say that these are different products and at least for me, they do not fill the same void. The luftkappe is a good product and provides a noticeable and worth while improvement for the cost of entry. That being said, the cost of the ACS3 kit is also 100% justified for the improvement it brings to the table.

The ACS3 kit is every bit of 300 dollars worth of improvement over the luftkappe for an aggressive trail, enduro or shuttle/park bike. If I were building a light or medium trail build for a bike that wasn't going to see bike parks, or super gnarly terrain, I would chose the luftkappe because of the weight savings.

So, I think there is merit to both products, and I'm happy to say that both products are great value for the performance that they both provide. I will end up with the ACS3 in my hightower from here on out, and the luftkappe in my trail bike and I am happy with both.

*That being said my big takeaways from the ACS3 Kit:*
1) Superior bump absorption on high speed hits.
2) Ability to use the Pike RC compression settings without introducing harshness to the system. 
3) Superior bump recovery and stability (especially events that occur deep into the stroke)
4) Super line traction and grip. Front end is far less disturbed and the front of the bike holds a line better.
5) Better support during braking events and far less movement of the bike due to rider inputs, especially in steep terrain.

I'm officially a convert. I went into this with a pessimistic view and my opinion was totally transformed. Now I have to justify not purchasing an 11-6 to match... too bad my local bike shop is setting up demo's of the 11-6 to for it's customers to try... sigh, there goes all my money. :madman:


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Thanks so much for this review @minimusprime. I've got the Luftkappe in my Pike and have been eyeing a coil fork for my next bike.

Post up your thoughts if you get to ride the 11-6. I'm very interested in that too.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

minimusprime said:


> Now I have to justify not purchasing an 11-6 to match...


Why do you need money? It's not making you nearly as happy sitting in your checking account as it would making your bike awesome.


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## WLB (Apr 25, 2011)

@minimusprime

Very nice write up, thanks for all the detailed info. Since my Pike is a 2018, I think I'm going to hold off & ride it for a while before deciding whether to do the ACS-3 conversion. Got a call from Dave @ Push last week, they are building my 11-6 this week, so I'm way excited to get it on try it out


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## _meyercord (Dec 4, 2017)

To echo what Darren said, the acs3 works incredibly well for those of us that are lighter. I’m about the same weight as your wife on a fox 36 with a yellow spring and 30psi in the abs. Beyond happy.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

_meyercord said:


> To echo what Darren said, the acs3 works incredibly well for those of us that are lighter. I'm about the same weight as your wife on a fox 36 with a yellow spring and 30psi in the abs. Beyond happy.


Hey Meyer, can you give ypur exact weight and set up (Fork, travel, weight with riding gear, "riding style"? I'm 145lbs on a 160mm fork 36 and ordered a yellow spring and I'm starting to doubt the spring weight.


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## _meyercord (Dec 4, 2017)

120-125 ready to ride with water etc
2018 36 fit 4 160mm
Yellow spring 
30psi might be 35. Been a while 
8 from full lsc
8 from full/ closer rebound 
No preload. Unless I mess something up, plow something I shouldn’t, overshoot something etc I leave about 12% of my travel available.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

_meyercord said:


> 120-125 ready to ride with water etc
> 2018 36 fit 4 160mm
> Yellow spring
> 30psi might be 35. Been a while
> ...


Thanks! Looks like their spring rate recommandation is a little off in your case.


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## _meyercord (Dec 4, 2017)

nightnerd said:


> Thanks! Looks like their spring rate recommandation is a little off in your case.


Perhaps, but after talking to Darren the yellow spring is what he recommended. I'm up a step on the eleven six as well.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

Now that I've got my ACS-3 set up perfectly for my weight, I've got a 160mm Lyrik Orange coil w/ preload cap that needs a new home. *(Edit: Found a home)* It was a bit too soft for my aggressive riding at ~165-170 lbs rider weight. Haven't been back in this thread in a long time since I've been having too much fun on my "new" bike , ended up on the blue coil and have been riding with 20psi in the bump-stop unit.

This thing is hitting Windrock DH for the 3rd time in a week, but this will be my first time with the coil up front. To say I'm excited is an understatement!


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

pixel_nut said:


> Now that I've got my ACS-3 set up perfectly for my weight, I've got a 160mm Lyrik *Orange coil w/ preload cap* that needs a new home. It was a bit too soft for my aggressive riding at ~165-170 lbs rider weight. Haven't been back in this thread in a long time since I've been having too much fun on my "new" bike , ended up on the blue coil and have been riding with 20psi in the bump-stop unit.
> 
> This thing is hitting Windrock DH for the 3rd time in a week, but this will be my first time with the coil up front. To say I'm excited is an understatement!


pm'd for the spring!


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

Actual, i've got in 160 mm Lyric Solo Air (MY2017) in my Nomad V3. Now i'am interested to convert the Lyrik with the PUSH ACS3 Kit (...because this will be the perfect Combination with my Push ElevenSix in the rear ;.)). Is it also possible to take the 170 mm Conversion Kit to upgrade to 170mm? I've heard that normaly you only need the right airshaft to get the expanding Length....should this also work with the PUSH-Conversion Kit?

Big Thx


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Just got my kit today for the Lyrik. I’m 200lbs geared up, selected the most aggressive riding option from the site. I was sent the green spring which puts me at 25% sag. Hoping this balances out well with the X2 on the rear. Test ride on Saturday. Super easy install by the way.


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## iguanabartola (Aug 24, 2006)

ajdemo76 said:


> Just got my kit today for the Lyrik. I'm 200lbs geared up, selected the most aggressive riding option from the site. I was sent the green spring which puts me at 25% sag. Hoping this balances out well with the X2 on the rear. Test ride on Saturday. Super easy install by the way.


I was literally reading the PUSH website and your post came up. I can vary in weight depending on the gear I use for the ride (armour, backpack, etc) so I can go from the 190lbs to the 200lbs green spring, 170mm Lyrik.

Looking forward to your review!!


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## bedell99 (Jan 5, 2007)

Just got a stiffer spring. Went from orange to blue. Quick question, why’s is there such a difference in spring length between the two?

Erik


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## beer_coffee_water (Mar 1, 2011)

Which damper is ideal for a 160mm Yari; Charger, Charger2 or the Yari MoCo? It looks like the 2019 RC2 damper is boost only based off of the pictures circulating. I have said fork and I am debating between the ACS-3 kit with one of those 3 dampers or an Ava cart and the 2019 air spring. Either way the cost will be about the same and I will still be under a grand. I am really leaning towards the Push kit because then I would have coil front and rear.


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## Druster (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm 160-165 lbs kitted and using a blue spring on Fox 36 160mm. The air bump stop is set to max at 50 psi and I STILL bottom out (can hear a solid knock) when I drop-to-flat!

Just pulled the trigger on a green spring so let's see what happens.

Just weird that with my weight I bottom out easily with max psi on the ABS! 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

I got a chance to ride with the ACS3 yesterday and wow, what an upgrade! I did about an hour and 30 min ride of climbing, steep, techy downs, rocky high speed sections and a little bit of dirt jumping. All I'm going to say is it does exactly what you want it to do and makes the high speed chatter disappear. I was also running the Shockwiz for the first time on my X2 and the fork is now outperforming the shock which I felt was setup pretty well before. Having this fork upgrade makes the shock feel harsh, which was also reflected in what the Shockwiz recorded. Hopefully I can get the shock balanced out to the fork which is amazing now! BTW, I'm around 200lbs geared up and on the green spring with 15psi in the fork, riding a Wreckoning.


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

Sharing my ride notes from a trail ride earlier today.

Bike SB6, am 84kg geared up.

25 Mar 2018 (Sun), BT, tacky

Float X2 160psi. 
LSR 19 clicks from slowest.
LSC 21 clicks from firmest
HSR 16 clicks from slowest
HSC 21 clicks from firmest
Rear tyre DHR2 2.3 @ 24psi.
O-ring 0.5cm from bottom out at BT double drop

Fox 36 PUSH green spring
LSC 12 clicks from firmest
HSC open
LSR 10 (+) clicks from fastest rebound (-) = LIKE GLUE!!!! (Andreani rebound piston)
PUSH ABS 0psi
Front tyre DHF 2.5 WT @ 16psi.
O-ring 1cm from bottom out at BT double drop. 2nd drop landed front heavy.

Music Eric Clapton's Knocking on heaven's door. Maybe I would bottom it if it's Guns n Roses.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

It's interesting to see peoples' different setups.

I have a black spring...I don't quite remember what my settings are since I've left them as-is for a while now. But I know I have 15psi in the bump stop, my HSC and LSC are almost open and LSR is somewhere in the middle. That's with a stiff Push RC2 tune which I found was too stiff to begin with so I'll have to address that soon. I'm sure I'll be more in the middle range once I get that tune adjusted. 

I highly doubt I'd notice a difference between 15psi and 0 psi.


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm a big believer in using a dropper fork (dual air) as I love technical climbing and the ability to adjust the front end up and down makes a big difference. In fact I even TIG welded up my own bracket so I could raise and lower it from an old Rock Shock remote lockout lever.

But I also like to mix things up at the beginning of the season so I put an ACS-3 in my Pike. I've ridden it several times now through some pretty good gnar. Because I liked my dropper fork so much I was hoping it wouldn't be a big deal, but I have to add my voice with the others and say this conversion feels very good. The real difference is in the recovery on multiple hits/holes/bumps, its so much faster to react, and the mid stroke support is much better for me. I didn't notice that big of a difference in suppleness on small bumps, but I've never been much of a princess in that way either.

I ended up with a green spring and its much harder to bottom out the fork than before which surprised me almost like its more progressive than the air ?? (and yet still more supple) This is with 0 psi in the bump stop. I also have an Avalanche cart but as Craig says the progressiveness of the cart is really not that much. If you take the spring out and compress the fork there is really not that much resistance. I do not have the ABS option. I hit a big drop today and there was no harshness in the bottom out either. 

It is an expensive option though especially if you don't need the air bump - I imagine the system would be much cheaper without that.

I have no noise whatsoever coming from the fork.

I ended up on the green spring. I have a brand new black spring for sale ($50 shipped ?) PM me if interested.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Preston67... Yeah I'm still torn on that air bump stop. I think I'll have Push redo the valving on my RC2 cartridge and see what happens. I find there's no mid-stroke support, but with 15psi in the air bump stop, I don't come near to bottoming out: just feels like a divey fork. I'll try cranking up the low speed to help with the diving, yet try to keep the fork supple. Hopefully that works. I've had Avalanche cartridges before.... I'm just trying to avoid spending more cash on this money-pit of a fork.


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## Martin6 (Jul 11, 2006)

bedell99 said:


> Just got a stiffer spring. Went from orange to blue. Quick question, why's is there such a difference in spring length between the two?
> 
> Erik


Erik - What is your geared up weight? Were you bottoming out the orange spring and does the blue spring feel harsh compared to the orange?
I'm right in the middle of the springs and was thinking of going up to a blue spring.


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## alex345 (Jun 14, 2008)

Christopher Robin said:


> Preston67... Yeah I'm still torn on that air bump stop. I think I'll have Push redo the valving on my RC2 cartridge and see what happens. I find there's no mid-stroke support, but with 15psi in the air bump stop, I don't come near to bottoming out: just feels like a divey fork. I'll try cranking up the low speed to help with the diving, yet try to keep the fork supple. Hopefully that works. I've had Avalanche cartridges before.... I'm just trying to avoid spending more cash on this money-pit of a fork.


If it is divey try adding more/all the pre-load spacers. pre-load constant shift in force/travel, diff spring a change in slope, and adding air will be non-linear at end (pV=nRT).

*edited so physics is correct


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

for people not using the airstop, why buy the system? why not just buy a coil fork like a Lyrik w/ a decent damper? otherwise, buying the ACS, you're paying $400 for a spring


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

nhodge said:


> for people not using the airstop, why buy the system? why not just buy a coil fork like a Lyrik w/ a decent damper? otherwise, buying the ACS, you're paying $400 for a spring


I don't like the Lyrik but ymmv (still trying to sell mine).

I'm going to try the push acs3 when they get the 170mm version. But I agree with you, use the whole system. Kinda silly otherwise


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

I just knocked the dust off my vanrc2 after being on air for quite a stretch...boy is modern air spring suspension shite!


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

nhodge said:


> for people not using the airstop, why buy the system? *why not just buy a coil fork like a Lyrik* w/ a decent damper? otherwise, buying the ACS, you're paying $400 for a spring


The Lyrik doesn't come as a coil. It needs a conversion kit also.
You might mean an Ohlins, MRP, or Cane Creek!:thumbsup:


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Martin6 said:


> Erik - What is your geared up weight? Were you bottoming out the orange spring and does the blue spring feel harsh compared to the orange?
> I'm right in the middle of the springs and was thinking of going up to a blue spring.


I'll answer this as I went from a blue to an orange and ended up going back to the blue spring. No the blue spring never felt harsh but I didn"t like the lack of sag I was getting initially (15%) with the blue spring. The orange spring was better at 25% but as I got more aggressive with the orange spring (doing jumps etc..) it started to feel a little softer the more I used it. I feel the blue spring stays higher in the travel. I'm about 165 lbs with minimal gear. The weird part is now I'm getting about 20% sag with the blue spring which is fine. I always have about an in of un-used travel most of the time.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

A first review of the acs3 just got released on pb. They're pretty positive about it.


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

nightnerd said:


> A first review of the acs3 just got released on pb. They're pretty positive about it.


When was the last time you read a bad review from PB?


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

cadoretteboat said:


> When was the last time you read a bad review from PB?


When they tested an Ellsworth.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

cadoretteboat said:


> When was the last time you read a bad review from PB?


Good point. NSMB are working on one too and it should come sooner than later. I find them to be the most balanced reviewer of all the mains mtb e-medias so it should be interesting.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

nhodge said:


> for people not using the airstop, why buy the system? why not just buy a coil fork like a Lyrik w/ a decent damper? otherwise, buying the ACS, you're paying $400 for a spring


You're totally right...although I decided to re-think my settings and with the rebound backed out, HSC lowered a bit and then increase the air pressure to 20psi, I 'think' I have it where I like it now. That bump stop does work in keeping the fork up in the last 1/3 of travel.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Christopher Robin said:


> You're totally right...although I decided to re-think my settings and with the rebound backed out, HSC lowered a bit and then increase the air pressure to 20psi, I 'think' I have it where I like it now. That bump stop does work in keeping the fork up in the last 1/3 of travel.


!excellent! sounds like you got it tuned to right where PUSH had it in mind to function.
w/ your experience w/ AV dampers, do you have any urge to get one now?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

nhodge said:


> !excellent! sounds like you got it tuned to right where PUSH had it in mind to function.
> w/ your experience w/ AV dampers, do you have any urge to get one now?


Always have that urge...but with the shitty CDN dollar and with Push's Canadian distributer being a 20min drive away, I've been keeping myself away from Avalanche (for now). Really, my tune in my fork is a stiff tune with the Andreani piston from when I had my air spring. Obviously I need to have that revised and then I'll hopefully be 100% happy. Otherwise the Push coil kit is awesome, quiet and smooth.

Based on my experience with Avalanche cartridges, I still think they're better than anything Fox else makes. But given the cost, exchange, and other household projects on the go, I just can't do it.

My rear shock was a Fox DHX5 that was fitted with the Push MX-tune when that option was still available. Really amazing stuff but again, too stiff...even after a revalve. I've recently switched to an off-the-shelf CCDB coil with CS just to see what it was like; I like it better. I'll have to get that Push shock looked at too.


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## Clarkej (Mar 4, 2015)

I buddy suggested I consider adding an AC3 conversion to the Lyrik RC that came on my Nomad V4. I am currently running a DVO Diamond and love the plush feel of it, but struggle sometimes with ramp when it will sometimes dive into "all" of the travel on a low speed roll into something steep and chunky. The DVO has a ton of adjustability with LSC/HSC and OTT adjustment. I keep wondering if I will miss the HSC adjustment going back to the Lyrik RC. 

Curious if anyone is running the coil conversion on their RC?


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## jvaliensi (Feb 6, 2011)

I got a ACS-3 for my FOX 36. The fork is a '15 model, the one with axle-clamp locking bolts and 150mm travel.
I'm at 195lbs with gear and not an aggressive rider. Push shipped it with a green spring.
I'm only getting about 20mm sag and. I did a trail ride I've done many times. My travel used was less than 100mm. I never bottom out my fork. I'm going to try the next size softer spring (blue). Its kind of pricey to find the right spring at $97/spring (w/ shipping).

My fork cap was not easy to screw in, because it was compressing the spring a bit. Is this normal?

My fork has three good years of use and needed the fork seals replaced. 

The ride was nicer than air but I wished for more sag on the climbs, the front was dancing everywhere on the steep climbs.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

jvaliensi said:


> I got a ACS-3 for my FOX 36. The fork is a '15 model, the one with axle-clamp locking bolts and 150mm travel.
> I'm at 195lbs with gear and not an aggressive rider. Push shipped it with a green spring.
> I'm only getting about 20mm sag and. I did a trail ride I've done many times. My travel used was less than 100mm. I never bottom out my fork. I'm going to try the next size softer spring (blue). Its kind of pricey to find the right spring at $97/spring (w/ shipping).
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with a blue spring giving me only about 15 mm sag (i'm 160ish lbs) so I got an orange spring and things were good for awhile (got about 25 mm sag). After riding the orange spring for a bit it stated to feel to soft so I switched back to the blue spring and now get about 20 mm sag. So I say ride your spring for a bit to see if it softens up some.


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

Does the kit have various pre-load cap pieces to adjust the amount of pre-load and thus sag?


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

blcman said:


> So I say ride your spring for a bit to see if it softens up some.


I second that too. Now my green spring feels just nice after a couple of months.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## jvaliensi (Feb 6, 2011)

Do you think the springs break-in or does your riding style change with the improved suspension?

I'm not giving up. I like the coil spring suspension over air.



Heiril said:


> I second that too. Now my green spring feels just nice after a couple of months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

jvaliensi said:


> Do you think the springs break-in or does your riding style change with the improved suspension?
> 
> I'm not giving up. I like the coil spring suspension over air.


Bit of both. Am way more aggressive now attacking corners and features as the grip on the approach is good and way more composed. Not knocked off line by insignificant things.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

aski said:


> Does the kit have various pre-load cap pieces to adjust the amount of pre-load and thus sag?


The kit come with 2 maybe 2 mm thick spacers. 
I guess you could add more.:nono:

Darren at Push says not to worry to much about the sag though and just enjoy the suspension!


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

blcman said:


> The kit come with 2 maybe 2 mm thick spacers.
> I guess you could add more.:nono:
> 
> Darren at Push says not to worry to much about the sag though and just enjoy the suspension!


I think I've read that the ACS3 typically runs with less sag vs the air spring counterpart. I see you have the HD3 with ACS3. Have you experienced this? I'm seriously considering getting the ACS3 for the Pike RC on my HD3. If I do this, I would also consider the 150 kit over the current stock 160 travel. If the amount of sag is actually reduced, then the 150 ACS3 might more closely maintain the bikes geometry than the 160 ACS3 would??? My HD3 is purely a trail bike so I don't want to slack it out or raise the front end too much.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

aski said:


> I think I've read that the ACS3 typically runs with less sag vs the air spring counterpart.


Less sag? Assuming you set it up about the same, then no, not really. There's definitely less stiction though, which on my old fork made it more challenging to reliably set sag, especially for a slacker geometry. Not an issue with the coil.

Once you're riding and hitting bumps you should immediately detect that the coil is moving out of the way of small bumps while the air will tend to bounce off them at first. The seals stick and grip before they release under enough load and start to slide. So I suppose at that moment the air fork is on average riding a little higher, but with the coil you're going to feel much more in control.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

aski said:


> I think I've read that the ACS3 typically runs with less sag vs the air spring counterpart. I see you have the HD3 with ACS3. Have you experienced this? I'm seriously considering getting the ACS3 for the Pike RC on my HD3. If I do this, I would also consider the 150 kit over the current stock 160 travel. If the amount of sag is actually reduced, then the 150 ACS3 might more closely maintain the bikes geometry than the 160 ACS3 would??? My HD3 is purely a trail bike so I don't want to slack it out or raise the front end too much.


Aski I guess this depends on how much sag you run on the Pike with air. The coil will ride higher in the travel regardless of what sag you are running. I just swapped my 20 mm spacer on top of my stem to keep my ride height the same. A lot of HD3 owners run theirs with 150 mm forks but usually run an angle headset to help with the HA.
I run my HD3 with a 160 mm fork and a 1 1/2 deg. Works angle headset and I still feel no negative effects on handling and climbing and great benefits on the downs!
I call her my HD3+.


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

tbmaddux said:


> Less sag? Assuming you set it up about the same, then no, not really.


I guess that's where I'm confused...how do you adjust preload? Can't be a dial since since you have the valve for the air bump stop. It was previously mentioned there were a couple of approx 2mm spacers? That doesn't seem like much adjustment though?



blcman said:


> Aski I guess this depends on how much sag you run on the Pike with air. The coil will ride higher in the travel regardless of what sag you are running. I just swapped my 20 mm spacer on top of my stem to keep my ride height the same.


Yeah, I run pretty low pressure currently just so the fork doesn't feel like a jack hammer which results in quite a bit of sag. Don't think my trails warrant an angle headset, but I may end up keeping the 160. Thanks for your input.


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## laserjockrock (Jun 22, 2015)

First ride review:
I've been stalking this thread for some time... with the unanimous awesome reviews, I caved and bought one for the Pike on my Evil Following. Just had my first ride today:

In a word: Wow. 

I've been tweaking this bike for years, including putting Avy suspension parts in it. But NOTHING has come close to what I experienced today. Literally felt like an entirely new bike, and a huge jump in overall performance.

Yes, I was plowing through things much faster and more confidently. Yes, the cornering was more solid, and the bike was both more composed and more responsive. Much the same experience as others here have said. However...

What really surprised me, though, was the huge pleasurable benefit from the small-bump compliance. The entire trail was tamed, and I was rolling faster; less beat-up at the end.

Most interesting: there is a ~mile-long climb on this particular ride which is gnarly as hell. It's a rocky and grueling slog up the mountain; I've never actually made it up the whole thing without stopping at least once (usually 3~5x). Today, for the first time, I cleared the whole thing without stopping. I would almost say effortlessly (for being out of breath). My bike just kept spinning, and I found myself up to the top in no time.

This was the huge surprise for me! Especially since I'm in awful shape from the winter, with only a couple rides this year, and just getting done with being sick for 2 weeks. The improved technical climbing and small-bump compliance seems to vastly outweigh any weight penalties.

I'm sold. Darren & PUSH crew: THANK YOU for your awesome work! 

Now I'm just bummed that I can't put a coil on the back.


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

New Marzocchi Bomber - basically a Fox 36 chassis and if so - will this work/fit? I suspect Darren will need to address this and probably lay hands on one to make a determination - but at $700 retail - it would basically make it a much less expensive alternative to current and 2019 fox product w only the coil upside as i see it. plus - the grip damper does indeed work well.


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## twist (Jan 7, 2013)

Can anyone give me a baseline to start with...

im approx 200 lbs black spring ACS3 @ 150mm in a fox 36, conversion + service done by tf tuned, I put 10 psi for the first ride..

Front felt very rough in comparison to the rear (i've just built up a new evil the calling 11.6 rear)

ride very rocky trails.. i knew it would need dialling in but the rear is so composed compared to the front?


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

twist said:


> Can anyone give me a baseline to start with...
> 
> im approx 200 lbs black spring ACS3 @ 150mm in a fox 36, conversion + service done by tf tuned, I put 10 psi for the first ride..
> 
> ...


With my 36 RC2 ACS3 conversion, I had to dial in quite a bit more rebound and LSC compression compared to my air setup (without this, the fork felt like a pogo stick).


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

twist said:


> Can anyone give me a baseline to start with...
> 
> im approx 200 lbs black spring ACS3 @ 150mm in a fox 36, conversion + service done by tf tuned, I put 10 psi for the first ride..
> 
> ...


I got my 160mm Fox 36 and ACS-3 directly from PUSH with the following recommended settings based on what seems to be your same criteria...black 55l b/in.spring as well:

Bumpstop psi 20
LS Compression 15
HS Compression 10
Rebound 9

I only have three rides on it so far, so take it for what it's worth, but I haven't felt the need to touch the setting yet. On a Hightower LT.


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Has Push started offering their damper tuning service for forks yet and has anyone tried it?


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## matc489 (May 31, 2012)

To anyone who have paid 400$ for an avy cart or asc-3 kit, what happens when you csu start to creak and you need to send your fork for warranty ? I'd be afraid to drop down that kind of money knowing that almost every single crown forks out there will eventually creak. Do you guys just remove the mod, reinstall the original damper or spring and send it back ?


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

While I'm waiting for the revised 170mm kits to be completed maybe you guys can share some wisdom on what spring rate would be right for me. It seems a little tough to predict from what I've read here. I weigh 175 plus 10 pounds of gear so 185ish. That's 84kg. My current Lyrik set up is 65 psi with no tokens, 4 clicks of LSC from open and 13 clicks of rebound from open on a 2014 E29 with 11-6 rear shock. I've usually run my forks soft for traction and even run my front tire soft at 16psi. I don't like to feel the kick in my hands over small bumps. I'm primarily buying the spring for better traction over small stuff. That's my number one priority but I also want the holy grail of more support and less chassis instability riding through chunder. Twisty trails are my fav but I ride more than my share of chunder. Most stuff here on the front range is loose over hard. Strava says I'm not slow downhill and butt slow going up. I don't do big drops to flat but do jump where I can see the landing. I'm fine if I don't use full travel and prefer my bikes geo with less fork sag. 
The chart for Fox 36's says I'm at the top of the blue spring and bottom of green. Will the green spring give me the plush traction and ground feel that I want?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

matc489 said:


> To anyone who have paid 400$ for an avy cart or asc-3 kit, what happens when you csu start to creak and you need to send your fork for warranty ? I'd be afraid to drop down that kind of money knowing that almost every single crown forks out there will eventually creak. Do you guys just remove the mod, reinstall the original damper or spring and send it back ?


yari or lyrik chassis are relatively cheap


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## jaffro1 (Jun 11, 2010)

I was in the same boat and went with the green. It still feels very plush ect. I guess it would depend on the type of riding, but from the looks of your set up ect you would prob be better with the green.


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## jaffro1 (Jun 11, 2010)

I had a 16 fox 36 that was valved and tuned by push it also had the acs 3 in it. I got it used and it was valved to soft for me but it felt very good. It was just to soft for me. I wouldn't hesitate to have them valve another one for me.


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## jaffro1 (Jun 11, 2010)

Matc489:
Thats what I would do. The Avy is easy to swap out with stock and can't tell it was in there. The ACS is also but the inside of the leg could be scarred up some and may not seal with the stock air parts in it. I have never worried about It I guess but I usually don't keep bikes long enough for that to be an issue.


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## jaffro1 (Jun 11, 2010)

I have the Acs with Avy combo in my 36. I have also had the acs push valving combo as well as the acs stock 2018 cartridge. I am not a Susp geek or anything. I base everything on how the bike feels. I just like testing different things and experimenting. I weight each to have real numbers etc for a legit compare. For me tho I will take performance over saving a couple hundred grams any day. The avy has the hsb and the fvat options in it. I am running no air in the acs bottom out. Set up is not cheap but def huge improvement over the stock fork. Not that the fork was bad stock.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

twist said:


> Can anyone give me a baseline to start with...
> 
> im approx 200 lbs black spring ACS3 @ 150mm in a fox 36, conversion + service done by tf tuned, I put 10 psi for the first ride..
> 
> ...


I'm about 210 and on the black spring. I had Push tune the damper before getting the coil and it looks like they beefed up the damping pretty significantly. I need it revalved. But here's where I am and it feels alright:

LSC is maybe 10 clicks from fully open
HSC is only a few clicks from fully open
LSR is about 7 clicks from fully open
20psi in the bump stop.


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

artnshel said:


> While I'm waiting for the revised 170mm kits to be completed maybe you guys can share some wisdom on what spring rate would be right for me. It seems a little tough to predict from what I've read here. I weigh 175 plus 10 pounds of gear so 185ish. That's 84kg. My current Lyrik set up is 65 psi with no tokens, 4 clicks of LSC from open and 13 clicks of rebound from open on a 2014 E29 with 11-6 rear shock. I've usually run my forks soft for traction and even run my front tire soft at 16psi. I don't like to feel the kick in my hands over small bumps. I'm primarily buying the spring for better traction over small stuff. That's my number one priority but I also want the holy grail of more support and less chassis instability riding through chunder. Twisty trails are my fav but I ride more than my share of chunder. Most stuff here on the front range is loose over hard. Strava says I'm not slow downhill and butt slow going up. I don't do big drops to flat but do jump where I can see the landing. I'm fine if I don't use full travel and prefer my bikes geo with less fork sag.
> The chart for Fox 36's says I'm at the top of the blue spring and bottom of green. Will the green spring give me the plush traction and ground feel that I want?


Get the green. I was in the same position as you couple of months back. Same ride weight too.

I was tempted to go down to blue as I felt it was so so plush on a friend's bike. But the local PUSH rep here told me to stick with the recommended green cos the blue might feel nice for my weight on the mild stuff, but may get overwhelmed on the rowdy stuff.

So I installed the green, it still feels way better than the air spring but can feel it is stiffer than the blue. Fast forward months later, the green spring was the right decision. It feels very nice and less stiffer now over few months of usage. Not sure if there is a wearing in period or I just got used to the spring, but it feels damn good now, the same feel I wanted from the blue spring initially.

This coil upgrade is simply awesome. It's good at the start, mid and end strokes. Running 0psi for my ABS, using almost full travel at 160mm most rides. 0.5cm travel to spare.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I’m not really happy with my 2018 Lyrik. I’m so tempted to buy the acs kit, can someone talk me out of it?  
The price is making me think about waiting for the 2019 upgrade kit but everyone here seems to love their acs upgrade. 
Anyone here who regretted the purchase?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

cYbernation said:


> I'm not really happy with my 2018 Lyrik. I'm so tempted to buy the acs kit, can someone talk me out of it?
> The price is making me think about waiting for the 2019 upgrade kit but everyone here seems to love their acs upgrade.
> Anyone here who regretted the purchase?


Yeah I regret NOT getting the ACS kit sooner! So smooth and supportive and consistent and etc..


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

blcman said:


> Yeah I regret NOT getting the ACS kit sooner! So smooth and supportive and consistent and etc..


Not making it any easier


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

cYbernation said:


> Not making it any easier


It's not suppose to be.

As the saying goes, "No pain, no gain!":eekster:


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## twist (Jan 7, 2013)

thanks for the tips guys... will give them a go.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Heiril said:


> Get the green. I was in the same position as you couple of months back. Same ride weight too.
> 
> I was tempted to go down to blue as I felt it was so so plush on a friend's bike. But the local PUSH rep here told me to stick with the recommended green cos the blue might feel nice for my weight on the mild stuff, but may get overwhelmed on the rowdy stuff.
> 
> ...


Heiril,
Thanks for the confirmation. I'll be ready to go Green when Push is.


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

Anyone have a Blue spring they want to sell?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Raja said:


> Anyone have a Blue spring they want to sell?


I do. PM me.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

I have an orange Fox 160 mm spring for sell while we're on the subject.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> We're really behind on the Charger tuning. We're hoping to release information next week.
> 
> Darren


Next week has come and gone What's the word on charger tuning? Or, can you get to the same place simply upgrading to the Charger2 damper?


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## ryanmj (Aug 19, 2014)

artnshel said:


> Heiril,
> Thanks for the confirmation. I'll be ready to go Green when Push is.


I'm about the same weight. Started green, tried blue but I'm back on green


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> 1. The coils are all the same. The preload caps and shrink wrap are different. We have specific preload caps for 36/PIKE/Lyrik and we add an additional shrink wrap band to the FOX springs.
> 
> 2. No. You do need a new lower plunger assembly and ABS external piston.


Darren - do you also need a new spring, or just those two parts? I have a 160mm Fox 36 from you with the 180mm damper installed in anticipation of a longer air spring (cancelled when you released the ACS-3 two weeks later . I would still like to go 180mm for bike parks here in a couple months, but I wouldn't be afraid to go big the way the 160mm is working on the Nomad already.


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## Druster (Jul 5, 2016)

Question, when it says "out" for the compression, does that mean clicks out from firmest compression (+)?

What about "out" for the Rebound? Does it also mean clicks from fastest (+)?









Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Out = from closed to open


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## ryanmj (Aug 19, 2014)

Druster said:


> Question, when it says "out" for the compression, does that mean clicks out from firmest compression (+)?
> 
> What about "out" for the Rebound? Does it also mean clicks from fastest (+)?
> 
> ...


My understanding was out from firmest compression and our from slowest rebound


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

ryanmj said:


> I'm about the same weight. Started green, tried blue but I'm back on green


What didn't you like about the green that led you to try blue? As I ask that I could see myself doing the same thing. There's always something better.


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## ryanmj (Aug 19, 2014)

artnshel said:


> What didn't you like about the green that led you to try blue? As I ask that I could see myself doing the same thing. There's always something better.


Sag was only about 15% and I wasn't using full travel as often as I should.


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi all, hi Darren

with my 207 lbs (fully geared) i went with the black Spring for my 160 mm Lyrik. Every thing goes fine and smooth but even on the roughest Trail the fork didn`t use the full travel(rest round about 1,5 cm). Is it right to put in the preload cap wich came along with the black spring? I ve read something that the black spring normaly does not come with a preload Cap or is this meant only for the Pike?...and what about the both smaller Waschers that come along with the spring? 

Furthemore anyone who has nearly the same as above, could you please post your favourite Setting for LSC, Rebound an PSI for the Lyrik?

Big Thx in advance


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

My coil spring rattles around a little bit (It's in a 36 RC2). Has anyone added another layer of shrink wrap to the coil and if so, what shrink wrap did you use?

Thanks!


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Well I drank the Push kool-aid and purchased/installed the ACS in my FOX 36.(2018 Fit-4) 150mm gray spring as I'm 225 geared up. Initial thoughts are that I really like it. Small bumps are so smooth and no deflection that I would get once in a while with the air system.

I run no preload spacers and no air in the bump stop. Compression in open position on HSC & LSC, rebound 1 click faster than Push recommends. I have not used all my travel yet but I attribute that to (2) reasons, first I don't huck off 4-6' drops or ride bike park trails, second I think the mid -stroke support is so much better than the air system.

That all being said I ride tight twisty eastern woods with lotsa rocks & roots, as much up as there is down, occasional 2-3' drops to smooth transition. I do not regret the switch at all to the coil system and may do it to my PIKE on my Chameleon.

On a side note I did notice the extra weight lofting the front end. Shouldn't be an issue moving forward after a few more rides. I only have about 75 miles on 4 rides so far and the little extra effort it takes should be second nature soon.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

I have a yellow spring for sale if anyone is interested. It fit all acs3 compatible forks in the range of 140-170m of travel. It will fit the preload cap that came with your kit. Pm me if interested!


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## Raja (Nov 9, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> I do. PM me.


Check your PM. Still interested.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

flipnidaho said:


> My coil spring rattles around a little bit (It's in a 36 RC2). Has anyone added another layer of shrink wrap to the coil and if so, what shrink wrap did you use?
> 
> Thanks!


some shops are putting an O-ring over it to keep it from falling down. Might help.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Can anyone confirm fitment on the New '19 lyric rc2? Im running the ACS3 in my '17 lyric rct3,

Ive been told the airshaft and damper assembly fit in the pre '19 lyrics and besides the offset for 46mm, nothing on the chassis has changed.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

If you were starting fresh, which fork RockShox Lyric or Fox 36?


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## Clarkej (Mar 4, 2015)

m3the01 said:


> Can anyone confirm fitment on the New '19 lyric rc2? Im running the ACS3 in my '17 lyric rct3,
> 
> Ive been told the airshaft and damper assembly fit in the pre '19 lyrics and besides the offset for 46mm, nothing on the chassis has changed.


I can confirm the new 2019 Lyrik air spring and charger 2 fit in a 2018? Lyrik that came as a Lyrik RC on my Nomad C S.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

OldHouseMan said:


> If you were starting fresh, which fork RockShox Lyric or Fox 36?


Just buy the Push tuned 36 from them and call it a day.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Just by the Push tuned 36 from them and call it a day.


Yes! Did that here, no regrets.


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## Jaysrubi (Jun 3, 2013)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Just buy the Push tuned 36 from them and call it a day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Same here also.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Just buy the Push tuned 36 from them and call it a day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I did not know this was an option. Thanks.


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks, I did the swap last Thursday... '19 lyrik rc2 w/ push ACS3 160mm.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Can I use a 170mm ACS kit to convert a 2019 160mm Fox float to 170mm or do I still need a different air shaft? 
Thanks,
Art


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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Replaces the airshaft... Ur good.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

artnshel said:


> Can I use a 170mm ACS kit to convert a 2019 160mm Fox float to 170mm or do I still need a different air shaft?
> Thanks,
> Art


My understanding is if it is fit4 yes. If it is HSC/LSC you will need to modify the damper. This is for an '18 fork though. I looked into the same for my '18 fork.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Will this be a good upgrade to my 2017 Pike 150 RC 29 Boost? Can the stock damper cope, or do I need TFT to install a FAST kit too?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

zerolight said:


> Will this be a good upgrade to my 2017 Pike 150 RC 29 Boost? Can the stock damper cope, or do I need TFT to install a FAST kit too?


Yes... that's the exact fork I have this kit in. I took out a luftkappe from my pike rc to install this. Before the ACS3 install I was really not enjoying the damping circuit on the pike rc. After the acs3 install I don't really have any complaints with it. I'll likely have push tune it when their pike tuning goes live, but not because i notice it in my rides or I really feel I need it. Just because.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I just installed this in my fork, it's a very well made system. Curious what is the service life of the air ramp up? And can it be seviced?


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## saucerboy (Feb 10, 2012)

Cerberus75 said:


> I just installed this in my fork, it's a very well made system. Curious what is the service life of the air ramp up? And can it be seviced?


I've been wondering this myself (and also loving the kit). Will be interested to hear what Push says about it.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks Prime.


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## cmaxxd (Nov 2, 2016)

Took apart my Fox 36 ACS 3 because it started to make some noise and I wanted to check how the internals looked after a month of use. Found a few things to note for others.

1. The oil was the worst I have seen come out of this fork (damper side was clean). It also contained a large amount of aluminum. I believe this is caused by the air bump stop nut wearing on the inside of the spring. This can see in the second photo the nuts are worn and the spring shows some internal wear as well (hard to get a photo). The internal of the stanchion tube seems fine so I believe this is where the aluminum contamination is occurring. I would recommend shortening the oil change intervals on the spring side. A teflon type slider over this nut to avoid the wear would be a slick upgrade but I don't know how you would fit that all inside the spring.

DIRTY OIL!








Wear on nuts (rounded off)








2. The rubber washer was broken and displaced (see photo below of the original location. Also the bottom spring perch was loose and unthreading from the lower negative spring shaft. I think that is what was making the noise. I will add some thread locker for the future and replace the rubber washer.

Broken Rubber Washer 








Loose spring perch (under red cap)








Anyways, Some observations hope it helps others. I just swapped out to a '19 170 Lyrik and will test the new air damper until I can get an ACS 3 for it as well.

_CD


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

cmaxxd said:


> Took apart my Fox 36 ACS 3 because it started to make some noise and I wanted to check how the internals looked after a month of use. Found a few things to note for others.
> 
> 1. The oil was the worst I have seen come out of this fork (damper side was clean). It also contained a large amount of aluminum. I believe this is caused by the air bump stop nut wearing on the inside of the spring. This can see in the second photo the nuts are worn and the spring shows some internal wear as well (hard to get a photo). The internal of the stanchion tube seems fine so I believe this is where the aluminum contamination is occurring. I would recommend shortening the oil change intervals on the spring side. A teflon type slider over this nut to avoid the wear would be a slick upgrade but I don't know how you would fit that all inside the spring.
> 
> ...


 That's an original 170mm kit and what you're experiencing there is the reason we stopped selling the 170mm kits. The new kits that go on sale this week address all of the issues you've shown here. Reach out to [email protected] to get sorted with a new 170mm kit for your Lyrik as a warranty unit for that one.

Darren


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## Jg144 (Oct 9, 2016)

I had the same issue with the rubber washer in my fox 36. I emailed push a picture and they sent out a complete new lower assembly. Hopefully they changed the material for the washer so it holds up longer. I am really happy with how they handled the issue. I sent the email on a Wednesday morning and I had the new assembly on Friday afternoon. Awesome customer service.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Jg144 said:


> I had the same issue with the rubber washer in my fox 36. I emailed push a picture and they sent out a complete new lower assembly. Hopefully they changed the material for the washer so it holds up longer. I am really happy with how they handled the issue. I sent the email on a Wednesday morning and I had the new assembly on Friday afternoon. Awesome customer service.


Yes, that washer is just used for noise cancelling. We changed it from neoprene to buna rubber to address the durability issues in some forks.

Darren


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

I have the same issues with my 170mm kit for the fox36. Shall I contact you (push) directly or shall I try to get things sorted out with TF-Tuned in the UK, where I bought the kit? Thanks and best regards


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

fredmeister said:


> I have the same issues with my 170mm kit for the fox36. Shall I contact you (push) directly or shall I try to get things sorted out with TF-Tuned in the UK, where I bought the kit? Thanks and best regards


Contact us first, and we'll make arrangements for you through TF. The 170mm kits were very limited in the field and we'll be happy to take care of anyone that got one of the few early models.

Darren


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

PUSHIND said:


> Contact us first, and we'll make arrangements for you through TF. The 170mm kits were very limited in the field and we'll be happy to take care of anyone that got one of the few early models.
> 
> Darren


Thank you very much for your quick answer and help!!


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Contact us first, and we'll make arrangements for you through TF. The 170mm kits were very limited in the field and we'll be happy to take care of anyone that got one of the few early models.
> 
> Darren


When will the new 170mm Fox 36 kits be available?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> When will the new 170mm Fox 36 kits be available?


It's been a long wait, but the Orange(40lb/in), Blue(45lb/in), and Green(50lb/in) 170mm FOX and Rock Shox ACS3 Fork Kits are being assembled and will start shipping this week! That basically covers rider weights from 140-210lbs.

Yellow(35lb/in), Black(55lb/in), and Grey(60lb/in) will begin shipping later this month.

To celebrate I'm offering up a $25 discount on ACS3 kits through Thursday of this week. At checkout simply enter this discount code to redeem: MTBR-ACS

I really appreciate your interest and support in our products and once again want to apologize for the delays on the 170's.

Darren


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Purchased a green spring 170 RS kit. Thanks for the head's up and the discount! 

Any word on charger damper tuning?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Purchased a green spring 170 RS kit. Thanks for the head's up and the discount!


Roger that....thanks for your business!

Also....I just got off the phone with our spring manufacturer and it turns out they're shipping the Black and Grey springs out today as well so we should have them Friday or Monday. I've updated the website and have extended the discount code for one more day so that riders over 210lbs have a chance to take advantage as well.



> Any word on charger damper tuning?


Engineering meeting in the morning to wrap this subject up. I'll let you know more soon.

Darren


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Roger that....thanks for your business!
> 
> Also....I just got off the phone with our spring manufacturer and it turns out they're shipping the Black and Grey springs out today as well so we should have them Friday or Monday. I've updated the website and have extended the discount code for one more day so that riders over 210lbs have a chance to take advantage as well.
> 
> ...


Magic words....discount code..care to share??


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> Magic words....discount code..care to share??


See post #760.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

robmac48 said:


> Magic words....discount code..care to share??


MTBR-ACS = It's in post #760


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Contact us first, and we'll make arrangements for you through TF. The 170mm kits were very limited in the field and we'll be happy to take care of anyone that got one of the few early models.
> 
> Darren


Dropped you guys a email on that email address, hopefully you picked it up.


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## wilbersk (May 31, 2018)

PUSHIND said:


> We're really behind on the Charger tuning.


Darren - Are you guys planning on offering fork tuning services for lyriks like you do for fox forks? Also, are there any plans to start selling push tuned, ASC-3 converted lyriks directly from you guys?

I'm asking because I'm currently building a bike and I would prefer to just get a push tuned, ASC-3 converted fork directly from you guys. Problem is, I really can't stand the look of the Kashima coating on the 36's.

So I'm basically deciding between a lyrik and a fox 36 performance elite, but I will probably go with the performance elite if there are no plans to offer push tuning for the lyrik.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Dropped you guys a email on that email address, hopefully you picked it up.


I wouldn't have seen it, but our customer service will get it sorted for you for sure. They've been briefed and know the deal.



> Darren - Are you guys planning on offering fork tuning services for lyriks like you do for fox forks? Also, are there any plans to start selling push tuned, ASC-3 converted lyriks directly from you guys?
> 
> I'm asking because I'm currently building a bike and I would prefer to just get a push tuned, ASC-3 converted fork directly from you guys. Problem is, I really can't stand the look of the Kashima coating on the 36's.
> 
> So I'm basically deciding between a lyrik and a fox 36 performance elite, but I will probably go with the performance elite if there are no plans to offer push tuning for the lyrik.


We currently offer complete fork sales, and tuning on the 36 which will include the new Grip2 damper. The Performance Elite is a really good fork. The PIKE and Lyrik will be available in the future, but I don't have a timeline as for that offering. We're running late on a lot of projects at the moment which is frustrating for all of us.

Darren


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

Darren, if I was to put the coil kit into a 2018 Fox 36 performance fork would I be best to change the damper to the new one or is it not worth it?


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

aski said:


> See post #760.





CUP-TON said:


> MTBR-ACS = It's in post #760


Thanks


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## wilbersk (May 31, 2018)

PUSHIND said:


> We currently offer complete fork sales, and tuning on the 36 which will include the new Grip2 damper. The Performance Elite is a really good fork. The PIKE and Lyrik will be available in the future, but I don't have a timeline as for that offering. We're running late on a lot of projects at the moment which is frustrating for all of us.
> 
> Darren


The bike won't be finished building until the end of this year at the earliest, so no timetable isn't a big deal. Knowing they are coming at some point is good enough! Thanks for the quick reply, I know you guys are working your asses off to keep up with demand! Props


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

Thanks, now I am in trouble with the wife (when she finds out, LOL). Ordered for my lyrik, 190 lbs (green I would guess). Now my wife isn't the only one with an acs3!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I called Push today with some questions, primarily about the ACS3 kit. The guy I spoke to seemed a little on edge. It was a super shitty, awkward conversation that left me not feeling very good about dropping $2150 CDN on suspension components for my 2015 bike. That really sucks because that was the direction I wanted to go. Maybe I was in a bad mood myself. Maybe I shouldn't care. But I do.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I called Push today with some questions, primarily about the ACS3 kit. The guy I spoke to seemed a little on edge. It was a super shitty, awkward conversation that left me not feeling very good about dropping $2150 CDN on suspension components for my 2015 bike. That really sucks because that was the direction I wanted to go. Maybe I was in a bad mood myself. Maybe I shouldn't care. But I do.


Sounds like a bad first date...


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

robmac48 said:


> Sounds like a bad first date...


Bahahaha.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

About to order a kit for my '18 36.

I see people saying "Just ordered a kit with the green spring" 

Is there somewhere on the order form that you can order a specific spring with the kit?

Because I dont see an option.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I called Push today with some questions, primarily about the ACS3 kit. The guy I spoke to seemed a little on edge. It was a super shitty, awkward conversation that left me not feeling very good about dropping $2150 CDN on suspension components for my 2015 bike. That really sucks because that was the direction I wanted to go. Maybe I was in a bad mood myself. Maybe I shouldn't care. But I do.


Please contact me directly: [email protected] as I'd like to follow up and get more information on this one. Customer support is my biggest priority with the company.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> About to order a kit for my '18 36.
> 
> I see people saying "Just ordered a kit with the green spring"
> 
> ...


There is no option as we ship the spring rate based on your rider weight, and taking into consideration what you've been running for air pressure in your current fork. You can find the spring rate guide that people are referencing here:

https://www.pushindustries.com/pages/ac3-support

Darren


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I called Push today with some questions, primarily about the ACS3 kit. The guy I spoke to seemed a little on edge. It was a super shitty, awkward conversation that left me not feeling very good about dropping $2150 CDN on suspension components for my 2015 bike. That really sucks because that was the direction I wanted to go. Maybe I was in a bad mood myself. Maybe I shouldn't care. But I do.


I'd say give them the benefit of the doubt. I've called and spoke to Dylan (sp?) a few times before the 170 kits were available and after I placed my order earlier this week, and he's been nothing but great to deal with and helpful.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

That was an unfair comment by me. It was not a great call but I had a rough day yesterday, which no doubt greatly coloured how the call went. And then I went out last night on a last minute invite to watch a buddy in a “Battle of the Bands” thing, and proceeded to drink more beer last night than I have in the last 6 months. After I stumbled home I posted my regrettable comments above. My fault. I am sure the person I spoke to is a perfect gentleman. Sorry for the inconvenience and confusion Darren. But thank you for following up.

Edit: pretty weak sheepish post for the big #1500. Oh well.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> There is no option as we ship the spring rate based on your rider weight, and taking into consideration what you've been running for air pressure in your current fork. You can find the spring rate guide that people are referencing here:
> 
> https://www.pushindustries.com/pages/ac3-support
> 
> ...


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Tree said:


> PUSHIND said:
> 
> 
> > There is no option as we ship the spring rate based on your rider weight, and taking into consideration what you've been running for air pressure in your current fork. You can find the spring rate guide that people are referencing here:
> ...


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> That was an unfair comment by me. It was not a great call but I had a rough day yesterday, which no doubt greatly coloured how the call went. And then I went out last night on a last minute invite to watch a buddy in a "Battle of the Bands" thing, and proceeded to drink more beer last night than I have in the last 6 months. After I stumbled home I posted my regrettable comments above. My fault. I am sure the person I spoke to is a perfect gentleman. Sorry for the inconvenience and confusion Darren. But thank you for following up.
> 
> Edit: pretty weak sheepish post for the big #1500. Oh well.


Hopefully the room has stopped spinning! Anyway, your satisfaction is my priority so if there's anything I can assist with feel free to still let me know.

Darren


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Darren, with the 170mm info this might have been lost. Question. What is the life of the ABS and is it serviceable? I just installed mine and have to say I was hoping I would not regret such a purchase for a spring. I have to say the product is well made and the bottom out and oiling are well made and thought out. You get much more than you think with this kit.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> I wouldn't have seen it, but our customer service will get it sorted for you for sure. They've been briefed and know the deal.


Thanks I have received a email from you guys!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I tried to blast through this entire thread but likely missed a lot of info along the way. Between this one and the drag racing thread in the recycle bin or whatever it's called, my morning coffee time was largely consumed. 

For the Pike RC guys...

I have a 2015 160mm Pike RC on a Norco Range C7.2. I am considering my current options. Dump the bike and replace it with a Blur/Tallboy/HT/HTLT, new Trail 429, Hei Hei, or something else or...

...throw down on an 11-6 and the ACS-3, and revive my Range.

If I sell my Range, I may get $3.5k CDN (it is fully blinged - carbon and XX1 front to back), but to replace it with the same build spec, I will have to drop well over $10k - likely in the $12.5k CDN neighbourhood. So all of a sudden, $2150 CDN or so on the Push option doesn't seem so ridiculous. As long as it delivers...

I have a whack of questions I am grappling with but a couple of the immediate ones are these...

1. Have you simply left the stock damper in place? If so, are you happy with the ACS-3 performance increase using the stock damper (assuming you are past the immediate post-purchase honeymoon phase)?

2. Did the internal scoring and inability to revert to air sprung cause you any concern?

My suspension as it stands performs reasonably ok, except for higher speed action in the chunk, where it feels like it is getting hung up. I have found my fork to function best with a psi on the higher end of the range, no LSC, almost no rebound, and zero tokens (although I do currently have an MRP Ramp Control installed which is set on zero, which is probably equal to a half to full token). As an aside, my rear suspension (Monarch Plus RC3) also functions best at no more than 25% sag. 

Anyway, any thoughts at all you may have would be appreciated. All first world problems I know, but I am nonetheless struggling with my options. If I go the new bike route, I may be screwed on inventory if I wait any longer.

Thanks guys. Much appreciated.

Off for a ride on my lacklustre suspension...


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Got a question that’s probably been raised here before. I’m about 180lbs geared up and using green spring. Even with zero pressure in the bump stop, I find I only use almost full travel if I deliberately land jumps on the front wheel. Dealer suggests trying blue spring with a preload cap. Anybody tried doing something similar?


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

lagerboy said:


> Got a question that's probably been raised here before. I'm about 180lbs geared up and using green spring. Even with zero pressure in the bump stop, I find I only use almost full travel if I deliberately land jumps on the front wheel. Dealer suggests trying blue spring with a preload cap. Anybody tried doing something similar?


Not enough info.

What is the largest size drop /jump you are doing when not getting "almost full travel"? How does this compare to when you were running the stock air speing?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

rondre3000 said:


> Not enough info.
> 
> What is the largest size drop /jump you are doing when not getting "almost full travel"? How does this compare to when you were running the stock air speing?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel Xsing Tapatalk


Good point... we're not talking big drops, 2 feet tops. And the fork does feel great, it's just that I wonder if I could get even more small bump compliance with blue spring.

I was running pretty low pressure, around 60 psi in a Pike 150 with one added token.


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

I was on the original preorder for the 170 lyrik kit back in November, so I have had a very long wait.. First off, props to PUSH, the delay was rough for both them and the customers, however, they really took care of me and did their best to make up for the long delay. 

I had a really positive interaction with Christina there, she is awesome. I received my Lyrik 170mm kit on thursday and got three downhill runs today on the fork. This fork is on a Nomad 3 with an 11/6, Ive been on that bike for 3 years now and ran it with a 160mm Pike with luftkappe up until this point. I picked up a Lyrik last year specifically to drop this coil kit in, so that Lyrik has been sitting for a long time also.

I am super impressed with the ACS3, it was well worth the wait. Everything people have previously said is true, it really does soak up the chatter and rocks and really smooths everything out. I feel like I'm able to carry more speed through sections, it's an odd sensation when you've ridden the same trails over and over and all the sudden that trail isn't as harsh feeling. My luftkappe Pike was pretty good I thought, but nowhere near as good as this coil Lyrik. I'm 150-155 lbs and they have me on the orange spring, I have 20psi in the air bump, I was using full travel on drops, jumps and some high speed rock garden parts, but I never felt it bottom out. I'm going to boost up the air bump a little more and see how it goes, but man I am quite impressed with this kit. Also my fork was dead silent, there was no rattles or noises. If you are on the fence about spending this much money on the kit, I would just buy it you won't be disappointed.


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## DoYouEvenRideCoilBro (Nov 23, 2017)

Darren, for the love of god and all that is holy - please make some 180mm plungers for those of us of more average weights. I measured the blue spring up, it looks like the solid height of the spring would allow for 180mm travel. 

Please.

Pretty please.

I wants.

Even if the fork makes knocking noises.

How much per hour for one of your engineers to alter the CAD model and send me a prototype? 

PRWWWEAAAASE.  I want to bring back freeride.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

lagerboy said:


> Good point... we're not talking big drops, 2 feet tops. And the fork does feel great, it's just that I wonder if I could get even more small bump compliance with blue spring.
> 
> I was running pretty low pressure, around 60 psi in a Pike 150 with one added token.


I wouldn't stress at that point then. A 2 foot drop isn't much and I wouldn't expect a 150mm travel fork to use all of it.

There is a point of diminishing returns when your fork is too soft. If your standing and pending it won't hold you up, trying to pump terrain ngets more difficult and you can lose too much trail feel.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

lagerboy said:


> Good point... we're not talking big drops, 2 feet tops. And the fork does feel great, it's just that I wonder if I could get even more small bump compliance with blue spring.
> 
> I was running pretty low pressure, around 60 psi in a Pike 150 with one added token.


See you say it feels great, I'd be happy with that. Its the quality of travel not quantity.

Plus as said above 2' drop is not that much. I wouldn't even use full travel on my 130mm fork on a 2' drop if I'm honest.


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## laserjockrock (Jun 22, 2015)

Suggestion on which Fox36 to get if going to put ACS in it?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a brand new Ibis Ripmo. I've been thrilled w/ my 140mm ACS3 on my Evil Following, and am pretty sure that I'll be going Push again in no time.

Ibis offers either the 'Performance Series' or a $480 upgrade to the "Factory RC2". It seems like I'm in time to be getting the 2019 Grip2 damper w/ it. (Not sure if that's a game-changer or not...)

I don't really understand the differences in the two forks. If I'm going to get an ACS-3 regardless, is the Factory version worth the upgrade?

[About me: No big drops or Enduro/downhill. Colorado Front Range to Moab; like technical/rocky. Want a ultra-capable All Mountain quiver-of-one for any ride. Love plush & small-bump response of ACS. 185lbs loaded up.]

thx for any input...


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

Performance with a Fit4 damper and call it a day. Or Like with their new Charger2. Both are very nice forks.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Darren

Have the green spring, 170mm fox 36 kits started to ship?

I placed an order early last week, just curious if it might have shipped.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

Tree said:


> Darren
> 
> Have the green spring, 170mm fox 36 kits started to ship?
> 
> I placed an order early last week, just curious if it might have shipped.


I got the same kit in the mail today! I live in CO.


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## Samuel0073 (Oct 10, 2017)

matc489 said:


> To anyone who have paid 400$ for an avy cart or asc-3 kit, what happens when you csu start to creak and you need to send your fork for warranty ? I'd be afraid to drop down that kind of money knowing that almost every single crown forks out there will eventually creak. Do you guys just remove the mod, reinstall the original damper or spring and send it back ?


I have both and when my fork starts to creak... this bro.

Suspension Department | Blue Liquid Labs


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Dang it! Missed the discount code window!

Oh well, maybe I’ll suck it up and order this summer when the wife isn’t watching the cc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Tree said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I'm 188lbs aggressive rider and used to run 75psi with two tokens in a 170mm 36 and now run a Green(50lb/in) fork spring with 15psi in my ABS.
> ...


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Darren, with the 170mm info this might have been lost. Question. What is the life of the ABS and is it serviceable? I just installed mine and have to say I was hoping I would not regret such a purchase for a spring. I have to say the product is well made and the bottom out and oiling are well made and thought out. You get much more than you think with this kit.


Thanks for the feedback! The life of the ABS varies based on riding style and setup, but a good rule of thumb is to service it once a year. It is a DIY kit and can be done at home, or by your local shop. Below is a picture of the service kit, as well as an image of where the parts go. MSRP for the service kit is $25.00 and I'll get it added to the website next week. We'll also provide some instructions.











> Suggestion on which Fox36 to get if going to put ACS in it?


The biggest difference is in the damper and not so much in the fork tubes. If the fork you're looking at has a GRIP2 or RC2 damper than you're going to be in excellent shape even if it doesn't have the Kashima Coating.



> Have the green spring, 170mm fox 36 kits started to ship?
> 
> I placed an order early last week, just curious if it might have shipped.


Yeah, all of the 170 kits are available and shipping. Hopefully you received you automated tracking information for your order? Let me know if you still need help.



> Dang it! Missed the discount code window!
> 
> Oh well, maybe I'll suck it up and order this summer when the wife isn't watching the cc


Just do it....tell her it's for your mental health! 



> Darren, for the love of god and all that is holy - please make some 180mm plungers for those of us of more average weights. I measured the blue spring up, it looks like the solid height of the spring would allow for 180mm travel.


Unfortunately, we're not able to get enough travel out of the spring for the given free length and outside diameter restriction. While some of our springs do have 180mm of available stroke you have to take into consider initial installed preload(-3mm), shrink wrap(-2mm), and optional preload(-2mm). So taking up with spring travel with those listed 7mm leaves us with 173mm max stroke. Hence the 170 kits being the longest available.



> Those of us that lucked in on the two day special, how do we check the status of our order? Nothing on your site supports this (kind of perplexing if you ask me!). Says I paid May 30th, so if they are shipping now, is there a backlog? Thanks


Once your order is placed you should've received an automated fulfillment email from our system confirming your tracking information. Please let me know if you didn't receive that, or still need assistance as I believe our sales department is current on all order fulfillment.

Darren


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

someone asked this before and I can’t find it to see if anyone answered, can I get a grip2 36 170 or 180 and install acs3 160 to reduce travel? would I need anything else on the spring side or anything at all on the damper side? I haven’t seen any fox instructions yet on how to change travel on geip2 forks yet!


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## dangerousmav (May 30, 2006)

Hi there, I’m 85kg naked...based on your experience, do you suggest a green or black coil for a Fox 36 2018 29” on a Transition Sentinel?


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Thanks for the feedback! The life of the ABS varies based on riding style and setup, but a good rule of thumb is to service it once a year. It is a DIY kit and can be done at home, or by your local shop. Below is a picture of the service kit, as well as an image of where the parts go. MSRP for the service kit is $25.00 and I'll get it added to the website next week. We'll also provide some instructions.
> 
> View attachment 1202949
> 
> ...


Received nothing. Just the PayPal confirmation :26XOB8W3R1JPJ and invoice id: c4751047524452.2


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

ULEWZ said:


> Received nothing. Just the PayPal confirmation :26XOB8W3R1JPJ and invoice id: c4751047524452.2


Very strange....I did track that confirmation on our end and it shows that it's on a FedEx truck in your area at the moment and should be delivered momentarily. Rather than publish your address, I can forward the tracking info if you reach out to me directly at [email protected]

Still doesn't explain the delay or lack of confirmation from our system, but it does look like you'll be installing it today if you have the time!

Darren


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Hey Darren,

Got my 170 Fox kit (green spring) yesterday and installed it this morning. Easy process. My only concern is after dropping the spring in the leg and putting the back top cap on, it was sitting pretty high in the stanchion, about where the threads start in order screw in the ABS kit or the stock Fox top cap. 

I had to put a bit of pressure on the spring and ABS unit initially to get the threads to engage, but after that it went in smoothly. I'm assuming this is normal, maybe due to the stiffer green spring? I seem to remember having to do this on older Marz forks back in the day.

Just concerned b/c in the video on the site showing you installing a 160mm 36, the setup sat lower in the leg and the ABS top went right in when you installed it, didn't look like you had to put any pressure or anything.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

rscecil007 said:


> Hey Darren,
> 
> Got my 170 Fox kit (green spring) yesterday and installed it this morning. Easy process. My only concern is after dropping the spring in the leg and putting the back top cap on, it was sitting pretty high in the stanchion, about where the threads start in order screw in the ABS kit or the stock Fox top cap.
> 
> ...


Yeah, some of the new 170 springs with the new preload cap will require about a millimeter of extra love to engage the thread, but that's completely normal. Our spring free lengths are spec'd with a tolerance of +/- 2mm and this new batch came in on the plus side.

Darren


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> The biggest difference is in the damper and not so much in the fork tubes. If the fork you're looking at has a GRIP2 or RC2 damper than you're going to be in excellent shape even if it doesn't have the Kashima Coating
> 
> Darren


Darren

I have the 2018 Fox 36 performance fork with the 3 position damper. Are you advising to change this damper to the GRIP2 or RC2 damper?


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

PUSHIND said:


> Yeah, some of the new 170 springs with the new preload cap will require about a millimeter of extra love to engage the thread, but that's completely normal. Our spring free lengths are spec'd with a tolerance of +/- 2mm and this new batch came in on the plus side.
> 
> Darren


Great, thanks for the info!


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Very strange....I did track that confirmation on our end and it shows that it's on a FedEx truck in your area at the moment and should be delivered momentarily. Rather than publish your address, I can forward the tracking info if you reach out to me directly at [email protected]
> 
> Still doesn't explain the delay or lack of confirmation from our system, but it does look like you'll be installing it today if you have the time!
> 
> Darren


Came last night at 6:30pm, will be installing today, thanks.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I have the 2018 Fox 36 performance fork with the 3 position damper. Are you advising to change this damper to the GRIP2 or RC2 damper?


If you're referring to the FIT-4 damper, than I wouldn't change it. I personally use our tuned version of that damper on a few bikes and really like it.

Darren


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

Just some thoughts for future Lyrik 170 purchasers, Not a big deal, just observations:
1. The use of one 5mm allen wrench is no longer the case, as the left leg allen screw is replaced by a 10mm-wrenched nut and plastic washer just like the fox shocks have.
2. The circlip that Rockshox used is replaced by a clip like the fox shocks use (this is much easier IMO).
3. The 24mm wrenched-nut to secure the internals on the top of the left fork is replaced by a much larger nut that now requires a 32mm socket. Note, before we could get away with a normal socket if we were careful, but no more. It is now a must to have a chamferless socket, so buy a 32mm chamferless socket first hand. A normal socket will hit the edges due to the increased size regardless how careful you are, ask me how I know!!!
4. The normal fluid quantity of 10 ml each side is increased to 20 ml each side. Push specifies 10wt smooth fork oil from Maxima, but I used the 0-30 wt rockshox oil I had previously used (20 ml each leg as specified)(hope this works out!!).

That's it, no biggies, just information.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

Does Push offer a choice between 44 or 51mm offset on an ACS-3 equipped Fox 36 when you order the complete fork through them?


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

Just something to keep an eye on. This is a Fox 36 160mm version lower assembly. I knew there had been some issues with the 170mm version.
It started making some noise when pulling up on the bars. It sounded like it was "topping out" but didn't feel like it was topping out, just a lot of noise. Kinda like a "Thwack!" with a little "squish" thrown in.
Tried greasing the spring to no avail. I remove the lower assembly to find this. The noise canceling washer had migrated onto the spring and is deformed. The plastic washer that I think retains the small spring up top had slipped down the shaft. My oil looked fine and no damage to the bumpstop nuts like in a previous post.
Contacted Push this morning and they have a replacement on the way. Thanks Dylan...


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## DoYouEvenRideCoilBro (Nov 23, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Thanks for the feedback! The life of the ABS varies based on riding style and setup, but a good rule of thumb is to service it once a year. It is a DIY kit and can be done at home, or by your local shop. Below is a picture of the service kit, as well as an image of where the parts go. MSRP for the service kit is $25.00 and I'll get it added to the website next week. We'll also provide some instructions.
> 
> View attachment 1202949
> 
> ...


Cheers for the reply Darren, I calculated the amount of stroke available in the green spring as 188mm - was I off then?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

CUP-TON said:


> View attachment 1203240
> View attachment 1203241
> View attachment 1203242
> 
> ...


I mentioned it earlier, but yes we have changed that noise cancelling bumper to a different material to prevent this from happening. It's a fluid comparability issue with the original material and won't effect everyone.



> Cheers for the reply Darren, I calculated the amount of stroke available in the green spring as 188mm - was I off then?


You were. The Green(50lb/in) has 180.2mm of travel so it's not usable in a 180mm travel fork application.

Darren


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> I mentioned it earlier, but yes we have changed that noise cancelling bumper to a different material to prevent this from happening. It's a fluid comparability issue with the original material and won't effect everyone.
> 
> You were. The Green(50lb/in) has 180.2mm of travel so it's not usable in a 180mm travel fork application.
> 
> Darren


There have been many reports over the years about Maxima fluid swelling seals and creating problems in suspension. You guys recommend and use Maxima fluid, wonder if there's any correlation?

Dylan, did you fit the coil kit yourself or were the forks supplied by Push?


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

robmac48 said:


> There have been many reports over the years about Maxima fluid swelling seals and creating problems in suspension. You guys recommend and use Maxima fluid, wonder if there's any correlation?
> 
> Dylan, did you fit the coil kit yourself or were the forks supplied by Push?


Actually I was just thanking Dylan at PUSH for helping me sort the issue.

I installed the kit myself and probably used Rockshox oil the first time. That was probably last Sept-Oct. Did an oil change in late March using Maxima Plush.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

CUP-TON said:


> Actually I was just thanking Dylan at PUSH for helping me sort the issue.
> 
> I installed the kit myself and probably used Rockshox oil the first time. That was probably last Sept-Oct. Did an oil change in late March using Maxima Plush.


Yeah I bought the Maxima plush as well for my install of the coil kit and stumbled upon the issues with Maxima oil in the DVO Diamond thread.

Darren, is there away to tell if the washer is the updated butyl version? Was the older one made from delrin?


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

I believe the issue with the Maxima oil was caused by folks using their motocross suspension oil vs. bike specific oil.......


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

mdc said:


> I believe the issue with the Maxima oil was caused by folks using their motocross suspension oil vs. bike specific oil.......


What's that based on? Need more info please.

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/dvo-suspension-oil-list-semi-official-1054924.html

This mentions DVO having issues with Maxima bike specific oil issues


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> What's that based on? Need more info please.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/dvo-suspension-oil-list-semi-official-1054924.html
> 
> This mentions DVO having issues with Maxima bike specific oil issues


When I called and ordered my ACS3 kit and spoke with PUSH they mentioned being sure to use the bike specific oil vs. moto to avoid any issues. Maybe give PUSH or Maxima a call direct to see what's up....


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

I used bike specific Rockshox 10wt and Maxima Plush 10wt. The oil was very clean both times I serviced it.


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## dangerousmav (May 30, 2006)

No one can advise me? @PUSHIND ?


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

dangerousmav said:


> No one can advise me? @PUSHIND ?


If you are ordering directly from Push, just plug in your info and they will decide which spring. I am about 5lbs lighter than you, I'm on a Mach 6 and ride aggressive trail mostly and I have the green spring. Hope this helps.


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## fabianpaul007 (Jun 14, 2018)

Just updated my 2018 170mm 36 (with a Vorsprung Luftkappe) with the ACS-3 Coil conversion kit. This thing is next level - I am shocked: 6000 feet of descending, and my hands are not even tired.

Well, I now have a major problem: How can I bring the rear end of my 29er Specialized 2018 Enduro with a Fox DHX2 to the same level?


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## karpiel (Aug 27, 2010)

fabianpaul007 said:


> Just updated my 2018 170mm 36 (with a Vorsprung Luftkappe) with the ACS-3 Coil conversion kit. This thing is next level - I am shocked: 6000 feet of descending, and my hands are not even tired.
> 
> Well, I now have a major problem: How can I bring the rear end of my 29er Specialized 2018 Enduro with a Fox DHX2 to the same level?


Send it to Craig at Avalanche my friend !


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

fabianpaul007 said:


> Just updated my 2018 170mm 36 (with a Vorsprung Luftkappe) with the ACS-3 Coil conversion kit. This thing is next level - I am shocked: 6000 feet of descending, and my hands are not even tired.
> 
> Well, I now have a major problem: How can I bring the rear end of my 29er Specialized 2018 Enduro with a Fox DHX2 to the same level?


Does Push make an ElevenSix for that bike? If so that's the best solution.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

fabianpaul007 said:


> Just updated my 2018 170mm 36 (with a Vorsprung Luftkappe) with the ACS-3 Coil conversion kit. This thing is next level - I am shocked: 6000 feet of descending, and my hands are not even tired.


So the ACS-3 is better than the Luftkappe? I just did a day in Downieville on a new 2018 Fox 36 RC2 and my hands got so worked I could barely brake. I did the Luftkappe on my Pike and love it. I'm sitting here in the car on the way home trying to figure out what to do to fix the fork.


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## fabianpaul007 (Jun 14, 2018)

SoCal-Rider said:


> So the ACS-3 is better than the Luftkappe? I just did a day in Downieville on a new 2018 Fox 36 RC2 and my hands got so worked I could barely brake. I did the Luftkappe on my Pike and love it. I'm sitting here in the car on the way home trying to figure out what to do to fix the fork.


The luftkappe is a proper tuning kit for a "small" amount of money. But in my eyes it doesnt attack the root of the problem. So two weeks ago I have installed the ACS-3 kit. After one ride I found my self checking the front tire pressure, because the ride was so smooth...


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## lighter9 (Jun 18, 2018)

Hey guys

My conversion kit arrived!
Now I wonder if could use the Fox gold 20wt? 
Push recommends the Maxima Plush but I still have about 200ml of the Fox gold..

Thanks a lot!


Edit: First post btw.. by far the best ACS3 thread I've found:thumbsup:


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

I used fox gold and haven't experienced any negatives.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

Push uses a 10WT oil not 20. Not sure if ( or how) it would effect the performance. Might be worth a call....


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

After a first run on my ACS3, here is my take:
First off, I am 181 lbs out of the shower, and have the green spring. This thing is very plush over slow chop and on the downhills, I am using 3/4 of the travel which is fine. It almost feels loose in G-outs, so I will adjust the rebound more than my previous setting of full open. Two clicks ought to do it and I am open to suggestions?


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## lighter9 (Jun 18, 2018)

thedrizzle said:


> I used fox gold and haven't experienced any negatives.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Thank you!



mdc said:


> Push uses a 10WT oil not 20. Not sure if ( or how) it would effect the performance. Might be worth a call....


Thank you too.
I think the Fox wt20 and the Maxima wt10 should be at least similar in viscosity because Push recommends to use the Maxima at the damping side too..
I wrote an email yesterday. I'll wait for the response before installing the conversion kit.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

The Fox stuff is fine, especially in the summer. I think I read Push uses 10w because it works during the warmer and colder months. Whereas the Fox gold gums up during the winter.


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## lighter9 (Jun 18, 2018)

Thank you for your reply!

It gums up? oO
Like it will perform not as great as in summer or like it’ll damage my fork/conversion kit?


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## TXNavy (Apr 7, 2004)

SoCal-Rider said:


> So the ACS-3 is better than the Luftkappe? I just did a day in Downieville on a new 2018 Fox 36 RC2 and my hands got so worked I could barely brake. I did the Luftkappe on my Pike and love it. I'm sitting here in the car on the way home trying to figure out what to do to fix the fork.


It fixes exactly this problem. My brand new 36 from PUSH simply wouldn't move fast enough due to the poor tolerances on the air piston seal head (see the other thread on that)...my left hand was so worn down from holding the front brake I could barely use it later. I tried everything I could with the damper and tokens and it all came down to air piston stiction. On my Pike that bike had been one of the fastest things down the mountain, so...

Bought the ACS-3 and it's been fantastic ever since. Do it, you won't regret it, and you'll feel way better about your 36! FWIW my Pike was perfect with the newer lower stanchion seals (internal) plus one spacer. The 2018 Fox 36 with ACS-3 is better.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

How noticeable is the added weight?
I am on Avy Pike and thinking to asd the coil. I am a light rider on Nomad 3 with a push 116 and concerned about the front being just too heavy.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

TXNavy said:


> Do it, you won't regret it, and you'll feel way better about your 36! FWIW my Pike was perfect with the newer lower stanchion seals (internal) plus one spacer. The 2018 Fox 36 with ACS-3 is better.


Thx. Pulled the trigger on the ACS-3 yesterday. MTBR and this thread should get a commission.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

jazzanova said:


> How noticeable is the added weight?
> I am on Avy Pike and thinking to asd the coil. I am a light rider on Nomad 3 with a push 116 and concerned about the front being just too heavy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


I dont think you're going to notice it. I think its 150-200gr more. That's like a tube in the front tire.

I'm on a yari with Avy and Push one of the best forks I've had.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i have a 2017 fox 36 fit4 160mm with the acs3 kit. i have both a black and green spring.

im about 185lbs(195lbs with gear), probably a novice rider.

black spring:
abs 15 psi
lsc 12
rebound 10
0 preload spacers
i probably need to reduce rebound to 9, since i sometimes feel like im bouncing off rocks/roots.

green spring:
abs 25 psi
lsc 12
rebound 9
0 preload spacers
i originally had the abs set to 15psi, but i noticed i was achieving close to full travel when taking 3-4' drops to flat, so i bumped it up to 25psi to test.

with the black spring, i'll have a higher ride height, less bottom out frequency, and less psi in the abs.

when choosing between two springs, what other characteristics should i keep an eye out for?


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm 145 in regular clothes, maybe 150 with gear. Any suggestions on Yellow vs Orange spring for a 160mm? I ride aggressively, but no big drops and I usually err on the plusher side of air pressures.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

useport80 said:


> i have a 2017 fox 36 fit4 160mm with the acs3 kit. i have both a black and green spring.
> 
> im about 185lbs(195lbs with gear), probably a novice rider.
> 
> ...


Based on the chart and using close to full travel (but not full) on flat drops, I would go with green.


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## danny.mendes (Mar 11, 2013)

Penny said:


> I'm 145 in regular clothes, maybe 150 with gear. Any suggestions on Yellow vs Orange spring for a 160mm? I ride aggressively, but no big drops and I usually err on the plusher side of air pressures.


I'm around 147 geared up. I originally ordered the 160mm ACS-3 with an orange spring, but after a few rides switched to the yellow. I ride fairly aggressive.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

danny.mendes said:


> I'm around 147 geared up. I originally ordered the 160mm ACS-3 with an orange spring, but after a few rides switched to the yellow. I ride fairly aggressive.


Interesting. I spoke to Push today and they said definitely Orange. You're a fan of the yellow now that you switched?


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## danny.mendes (Mar 11, 2013)

Penny said:


> Interesting. I spoke to Push today and they said definitely Orange. You're a fan of the yellow now that you switched?


The yellow feels better for me. Gives me a little more traction in rocky corners but still has good support on hard braking.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

danny.mendes said:


> The yellow feels better for me. Gives me a little more traction in rocky corners but still has good support on hard braking.


Hey Danny, I am about the same weight as you and use the orange spring. I'm curious on how much psi you are using in the air bump stop. I have to be in the high 40's to get any ramp on "bigger" hits(nothing crazy).

By the way, I have a yellow spring for sale if anyone is looking for one.


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## Justin.V (Jun 21, 2018)

Darren when will you be updating your websites AC3 default settings to work with the new fox 36 grip damper.
Thanks


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

nightnerd said:


> Hey Danny, I am about the same weight as you and use the orange spring. I'm curious on how much psi you are using in the air bump stop. I have to be in the high 40's to get any ramp on "bigger" hits(nothing crazy).
> 
> By the way, I have a yellow spring for sale if anyone is looking for one.


I am going to try the orange spring when I install the kit on Monday. If it's not working, I'd be interested in your yellow spring.


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## danny.mendes (Mar 11, 2013)

nightnerd said:


> Hey Danny, I am about the same weight as you and use the orange spring. I'm curious on how much psi you are using in the air bump stop. I have to be in the high 40's to get any ramp on "bigger" hits(nothing crazy).


When I ran the orange spring, I had 0 psi in the bump stop and did not bottom out even on a 4' to flat landing. I am running 15-20 psi in the bump stop with the yellow spring.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

I weigh a little less than you and I think the orange is perfect. You can really dial in the bottom out support. I run 12 in mine and its feel plenty smooth with good midstroke and bottom out support. Not hucking anything big and it feels good.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

SoCal-Rider said:


> Thx. Pulled the trigger on the ACS-3 yesterday. MTBR and this thread should get a commission.


You'll love it here in So. Cal. Our terrain of loose over hard, rocky, and braking bump city should almost necessitate coil.

I bet it would be so buttery in Downieville. A couple runs in Downieville with air can will kill your arms!


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Just got done installing the ACS-3 kit. Super straightforward install. The included directions were clear other than I didn't install new fork seals since my fork is basically brand new. That left me without a new damper side crush washer. Luckily I stocked up on them years ago so I had one on hand. 

A quick spin around the cul-de-sac gives me the feeling I'm gonna like it. First ride tomorrow. Can't wait.


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Darren, question for you. I have a 160 acs and just swapped it for a 170 kit. I see the shaft on the acs unit is shorter on the 170 than the 160. With the shorter shaft will it be less progressive? Thanks


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## lighter9 (Jun 18, 2018)

jimarin said:


> With the shorter shaft will it be less progressive? Thanks


The other way. A smaller air chamber is more progressive. That's why Fox, Rock Shox etc. are trying to imitate coil with bigger air chambers -> more linear leverage curve.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Anyone have a 170mm fox 36 blue spring they would like to sell?


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

lighter9 said:


> The other way. A smaller air chamber is more progressive. That's why Fox, Rock Shox etc. are trying to imitate coil with bigger air chambers -> more linear leverage curve.


But the body of the spring is the same size so as I see it the shorter shaft will not go as deep into the body so the positive chamber at max compression will be larger and have less final ramp. I already ran my 160 at max pressure so I'm wondering if I would be better off running the one with the longer shaft as I want as much ramp as I can get.


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## fabianpaul007 (Jun 14, 2018)

I have just ordered another spring from pushindustries. I have the blue one installed and want to try the green one. Are the springs all the same length? I was not asked which kit (length) I am using? I have a Fox 36 170mm.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

I finally have this kit balanced on my Lyrik with a Float X2 on the rear. I went back and forth between green and black springs a couple times (I'm 205lbs geared up) and settled on black. Green felt great on everyday trail rides, but was a bit overwhelmed at Keystone Bike Park. I had to max out LSC with the green spring and run rebound 3 clicks faster than stock and 30 psi in the bump stop. 
With the black spring, it's 2 clicks slower than stock on rebound, so 7 clicks from fastest, 5 clicks of LSC. 10psi in the bump stop for now. Plush, but supportive over high speed roots and rocks. It really makes you want to go faster. Such a small weight penalty for how much of an improvement this is over the stock setup!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

For those of you who don't follow Instagram, I put this video up this morning and it seems to help people better grasp what's going on inside.

Anyway, here's a look:

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Not sure why the video won't post to that other response. Try again:

https://vimeo.com/user7979366






Darren


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Darren,

Would you recommend using the new fox PTFE oil in both legs or stick to the fox gold for the spring side? Stick with 20ml in the spring side?

Thanks!


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

TXNavy said:


> Bought the ACS-3 and it's been fantastic ever since. Do it, you won't regret it, and you'll feel way better about your 36! FWIW my Pike was perfect with the newer lower stanchion seals (internal) plus one spacer. The 2018 Fox 36 with ACS-3 is better.


What type of settings did you use for Dville? Going there this Saturday. Haven't touched my factory setting for 150miles (black spring, 15 LSC, 10 HSC, 9 rebound). I was at North* yesterday, with these same setting, and my hands were trashed after about 6 runs...felt like I needed to do something but wasn't sure since I can't dial in suspension to save my life. Anyway, Dville Saturday...any suggestions?


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

ajdemo76 said:


> With the black spring, it's 2 clicks slower than stock on rebound, so 7 clicks from fastest, 5 clicks of LSC. 10psi in the bump stop for now. Plush, but supportive over high speed roots and rocks. It really makes you want to go faster. Such a small weight penalty for how much of an improvement this is over the stock setup!


I wish I would have messed around with my fork yesterday at northstar...I'm on the black spring, but I'm 210 w/o gear! LOL, and my hands were cooked after 6 runs, but I know this thing could have been dialed in way better for the small bump compliance...that's what was killin me.


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi all, hi Darren

with my 207 lbs (fully geared) i went with the black Spring for my 160 mm Lyrik. Every thing goes fine and smooth but even on the roughest Trail the fork didn`t use the full travel(rest round about 1,5 cm). Is it right to put in the preload cap wich came along with the black spring? I ve read something that the black spring normaly does not come with a preload Cap or is this meant only for the Pike?...and what about the both smaller Waschers that come along with the spring?

Furthemore anyone who has nearly the same as above, could you please post your favourite Setting for LSC, Rebound an PSI for the Lyrik?

Big Thx in advance


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

ajdemo76 said:


> I finally have this kit balanced on my Lyrik with a Float X2 on the rear. I went back and forth between green and black springs a couple times (I'm 205lbs geared up) and settled on black. Green felt great on everyday trail rides, but was a bit overwhelmed at Keystone Bike Park. I had to max out LSC with the green spring and run rebound 3 clicks faster than stock and 30 psi in the bump stop.
> With the black spring, it's 2 clicks slower than stock on rebound, so 7 clicks from fastest, 5 clicks of LSC. 10psi in the bump stop for now. Plush, but supportive over high speed roots and rocks. It really makes you want to go faster. Such a small weight penalty for how much of an improvement this is over the stock setup!


Hey, my weight is nearly the the same and i am running a 160 mm Lyrik. Please see my Post #866. Did you put in the preload cap wich came along with the black spring, or just install without it?

It would be great, if you could help ;-)


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

I have the same fork with the black spring, 205 when geared up. I just spent the last two days at Keystone getting the bike (and myself) dialed for the BME race next weekend. Ultimately, I decided on 6 clicks of rebound from fastest and from starting with no LSC, 6-7 clicks of that. I have 10 psi in the bottom out piston. I was left with about 10mm of travel left and that's riding aggressively on most of the black trails there. I'd drop the sag ring a few times throughout the day and was consistently using that much travel. The fork feels great! I'm concerned more about the overall feel of the fork than whether or not I'm using all travel and that extra 10mm gives me a little bit of insurance on any "oh ****" hits I might take. I don't use nearly that much travel on everyday trail rides which I wouldn't expect, but this thing is dialed to handle as much as I can throw at it.


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

ajdemo76 said:


> I have the same fork with the black spring, 205 when geared up. I just spent the last two days at Keystone getting the bike (and myself) dialed for the BME race next weekend. Ultimately, I decided on 6 clicks of rebound from fastest and from starting with no LSC, 6-7 clicks of that. I have 10 psi in the bottom out piston. I was left with about 10mm of travel left and that's riding aggressively on most of the black trails there. I'd drop the sag ring a few times throughout the day and was consistently using that much travel. The fork feels great! I'm concerned more about the overall feel of the fork than whether or not I'm using all travel and that extra 10mm gives me a little bit of insurance on any "oh ****" hits I might take. I don't use nearly that much travel on everyday trail rides which I wouldn't expect, but this thing is dialed to handle as much as I can throw at it.


Thx for sharing your experience, ajdemo76. My setup is nearly the same, but even agressive riding, there are nearly 20 to 25 mm left. Could you please tell me, if you installed the Preload-Cap? I've heard, that for grey and black springs, Pre-Load Caps are not needed.


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## mdc (Apr 26, 2006)

Chefkoch said:


> Thx for sharing your experience, ajdemo76. My setup is nearly the same, but even agressive riding, there are nearly 20 to 25 mm left. Could you please tell me, if you installed the Preload-Cap? I've heard, that for grey and black springs, Pre-Load Caps are not needed.


I believe the pre-load "tokens" are going to decrease sag, and increase ride height. I think if you are not utilizing the bottom stroke of the shock you should decrease the air pressure in the ACS3 system. It comes with 20PSI - you can go as low as 5 PSI and as high as 50. Lower PSI will decrease bottom our resistance, higher will increase.......


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

ajdemo76 said:


> I have the same fork with the black spring, 205 when geared up. I just spent the last two days at Keystone getting the bike (and myself) dialed for the BME race next weekend. Ultimately, I decided on 6 clicks of rebound from fastest and from starting with no LSC, 6-7 clicks of that. I have 10 psi in the bottom out piston. I was left with about 10mm of travel left and that's riding aggressively on most of the black trails there. I'd drop the sag ring a few times throughout the day and was consistently using that much travel. The fork feels great! I'm concerned more about the overall feel of the fork than whether or not I'm using all travel and that extra 10mm gives me a little bit of insurance on any "oh ****" hits I might take. I don't use nearly that much travel on everyday trail rides which I wouldn't expect, but this thing is dialed to handle as much as I can throw at it.


im assuming the 10mm is the amount of stanchion that's remaining between the travel o-ring and the CSU.

have you checked if your fork is supposed to go alllll the way to the csu?

i have a fox36, (this is prior to installing the acs3), i took all the air out of the fork and compressed it using my bodyweight(180#) and i still had stanchion showing between the dust wipers and the fork csu. from what i remember, it was around 10-12mm.

so you might be actually achieving full travel, despite having some stanchion showing. i have pictures and measurements somewhere, but i'll have to look for them if you need some proof.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Ill have to double check in the morning, but I think the black spring came with its own preload cap, but no spacers. So to answer your question, I think ive got just a preload cap in there. I went back and forth a couple times with the black and green spring so i cant remember for sure.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Chefkoch said:


> Thx for sharing your experience, ajdemo76. My setup is nearly the same, but even agressive riding, there are nearly 20 to 25 mm left. Could you please tell me, if you installed the Preload-Cap? I've heard, that for grey and black springs, Pre-Load Caps are not needed.


Ok, I just checked this morning. I've got the preload cap with no spacers.


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## ajdemo76 (Mar 25, 2009)

Yea, I've hit full compression before with the green spring and it has gone beyond that. I'm pretty happy with the way it's set up now so I'm just going to leave it. Maybe I'll use full travel at race pace next weekend at Keystone? We'll see!


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## Polishtea (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm considering switching to the black spring from the green on my 2015 Spartan. It's got an 11.6 on the back and a (formerly) dual position 160mm Pike with the ACS3 conversion in it now for about 3 months. 

I am 195-200 before gear which is at the upper range of the spring chart, with the 11.6 I went a little softer than recommend and I loved it but this fork coil has me perplexed. I ride with the bump stop at about 35psi currently, and I use ALL of my travel, every ride and multiple times on segments unless it's a very mellow day. I'm doing 4-6ft drop at the biggest, and I've heard the fork clap out hard at least twice when I came up flat on a landing. 

Sounds like I can push up the psi in the bump stop a little more and dial up my fork rebound some to tinker with it some more but I don't currently enjoy how much I feel like I'm diving so heavily into the fork on repeated slow technical rock roll downs or ladder drops. Any one have some other advice of what I could be doing in the meantime if I don't swamp the coil?


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

I am at 190lb rider weight and "trail aggressive" on their selector and they set me up with the black spring. So I would do that if I were you.

I wouldn't use rebound to adjust for fork dive; rather I would increase compression damping, preferably LSC rather than HSC.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

Polishtea said:


> I'm considering switching to the black spring from the green on my 2015 Spartan. It's got an 11.6 on the back and a (formerly) dual position 160mm Pike with the ACS3 conversion in it now for about 3 months.
> 
> I am 195-200 before gear which is at the upper range of the spring chart, with the 11.6 I went a little softer than recommend and I loved it but this fork coil has me perplexed. I ride with the bump stop at about 35psi currently, and I use ALL of my travel, every ride and multiple times on segments unless it's a very mellow day. I'm doing 4-6ft drop at the biggest, and I've heard the fork clap out hard at least twice when I came up flat on a landing.
> 
> Sounds like I can push up the psi in the bump stop a little more and dial up my fork rebound some to tinker with it some more but I don't currently enjoy how much I feel like I'm diving so heavily into the fork on repeated slow technical rock roll downs or ladder drops. Any one have some other advice of what I could be doing in the meantime if I don't swamp the coil?


You can still add 15psi to the bump stop chamber. Where you at in terms of compression damping clicks? Have you tried adding preload spacers?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## cr3pitus (Apr 20, 2018)

Just installed the acs3 into my 170mm lyrik. Seems like it's going to be amazing but haven't taken it through an Enduro trail yet. But that's happening tomorrow morning. I feel like the recommended settings on the push page are all for fox not rockshox. I'm planning on running hsc open lsc nearly fully open and rebound a smidge faster than what I had on the air spring. Anybody around 220 on a black spring on a 170mm lyrik dialed in and want to give recommendations? Might be perfect tomorrow though!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

SoCal-Rider said:


> So the ACS-3 is better than the Luftkappe? I just did a day in Downieville on a new 2018 Fox 36 RC2 and my hands got so worked I could barely brake. I did the Luftkappe on my Pike and love it. I'm sitting here in the car on the way home trying to figure out what to do to fix the fork.


Its just a bigger negative airspring. The ACS3 has the same small bump feel. But no stiction and better mid stroke support.


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## Goat4715 (Jul 4, 2018)

Hi Darren, just had a Transition Patrol built up and have been waiting on the revised 170mm conversion for the Fox 36 Float RC2 to arrive at my bike shop (Fanatik Bikes, Bellingham, WA). I have the spring and we are still waiting for the rest to come in. Looks like people have been receiving these directly from you guys for about a month now, any word when stock might be sent to bike shops? I absolutely LOVE my 150 ACS3 on my Hightower and can't wait to get my 170 installed. Thanks in advance!


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

ajdemo76 said:


> I have the same fork with the black spring, 205 when geared up. I just spent the last two days at Keystone getting the bike (and myself) dialed for the BME race next weekend. Ultimately, I decided on 6 clicks of rebound from fastest and from starting with no LSC, 6-7 clicks of that. I have 10 psi in the bottom out piston. I was left with about 10mm of travel left and that's riding aggressively on most of the black trails there. I'd drop the sag ring a few times throughout the day and was consistently using that much travel. The fork feels great! I'm concerned more about the overall feel of the fork than whether or not I'm using all travel and that extra 10mm gives me a little bit of insurance on any "oh ****" hits I might take. I don't use nearly that much travel on everyday trail rides which I wouldn't expect, but this thing is dialed to handle as much as I can throw at it.


very helpful ajdemo76- going to try this setup to see if it helps with small bump. Currently at 15LSC, 10HSC, 20psi bump stop, and 9 rebound, black on Fox 36/160 (all factory setup).


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## luisgutierod (Sep 9, 2015)

*170mm FOX 36 with 160mm ACS3 coil kit*

Hi all,

I've read about the 160mm fox 36 being compatible with the 170mm kit if FIT4 damper... I have the opporsite question =, I have a '15 RC2 27.5 @170mm, will the 160mm kit work ? I dont mind the 10mm. (I guess stanchions are longer on the 170mm version)....

cheers!


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

luisgutierod said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've read about the 160mm fox 36 being compatible with the 170mm kit if FIT4 damper... I have the opporsite question =, I have a '15 RC2 27.5 @170mm, will the 160mm kit work ? I dont mind the 10mm. (I guess stanchions are longer on the 170mm version)....
> 
> cheers!


Stanchions are the same on all 2015 on 275/29 36's. You can run the 160mm kit no problem.


----------



## luisgutierod (Sep 9, 2015)

Rick Draper said:


> Stanchions are the same on all 2015 on 275/29 36's. You can run the 160mm kit no problem.


Nice.. I was confused there was something different besides the air shaft


----------



## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Video interview with Darren of PUSH (VitalMTB) up now on YouTube. Covers the ELEVENSIX and ACS3. Check it out!


----------



## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Anyone have a Fox 36 170mm blue spring they want to sell?


----------



## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

whoa?! so informative, thanx man


tbmaddux said:


> Video interview with Darren of PUSH (VitalMTB) up now on YouTube. Covers the ELEVENSIX and ACS3. Check it out!


----------



## B Rabbit (May 30, 2014)

Are there any plans to make this kit fit a 27.5 180mm fox 36? (and keep the 180mm travel


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

B Rabbit said:


> Are there any plans to make this kit fit a 27.5 180mm fox 36? (and keep the 180mm travel


I remember reading somewhere that it was for 170mm max as there are issues with getting the spring to play nice with 180mm

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## haltbro (Feb 7, 2018)

im on a fox 36 160mm green spring and after about 400 miles of riding, im starting to get a knocking noise within the first 1/2 of stroke.

what was the resolution to this? was it to rotate the spring?


----------



## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

How loud of a knocking noise? Curious because I'm on the fence about buying this. That is exactly what I dont want to start happening to my fork.


----------



## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

FWIW, Push just informed me that they probably won’t be doing the damper tuning option for the Charger damper, at least not for now.


----------



## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

haltbro said:


> im on a fox 36 160mm green spring and after about 400 miles of riding, im starting to get a knocking noise within the first 1/2 of stroke.
> 
> what was the resolution to this? was it to rotate the spring?


Try lubing the spring with grease and rotating within the stanchion.

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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

haltbro said:


> im on a fox 36 160mm green spring and after about 400 miles of riding, im starting to get a knocking noise within the first 1/2 of stroke.
> 
> what was the resolution to this? was it to rotate the spring?


I have the same setup. Check out post #814. My kit was silent at first, then after about 4 months it started knocking so I greased the spring. Seemed to quiet down but never went away. Then it started knocking loudly when I pulled up on the fork. Then I pulled it apart and found this








Not saying this is also your issue, but worth checking out.Push was awesome about sending out a new lower unit right away. They have since changed the material that the noise cancelling washer is made out of.


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Which oil should be the best to use for the spring side Pike?
I have these:
Spectro Golden 85/150 5w
Maxima type B 5w
Fox oil
Torco RFF 5w

The damper is avy open bath with Spectro oil.

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## jbadge (Mar 31, 2014)

Anyone got a blue Pike spring they want to sell or trade? I'm on a green currently, but lost 20 lbs, sooo it's feeling a bit stiff.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

jazzanova said:


> Which oil should be the best to use for the spring side Pike?
> I have these:
> Spectro Golden 85/150 5w
> Maxima type B 5w
> ...


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> jazzanova said:
> 
> 
> > Which oil should be the best to use for the spring side Pike?
> ...


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JohnnyC7 said:


> jazzanova said:
> 
> 
> > You really want a heavier oil for the lowers as it will lubricate better, ideally a 20wt but 10 or 15 will be better than your 5wt. Failing that any of those oils apart from the fox (you haven't specified which fox oil) will do the same job
> ...


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> JohnnyC7 said:
> 
> 
> > Push recommends maxima 10wt...
> ...


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jazzanova said:


> Which oil should be the best to use for the spring side Pike?
> I have these:
> Spectro Golden 85/150 5w
> Maxima type B 5w
> ...


I use Mobil 1 Synthetic 0-W30, for the reasons that JohnnyC7 is stating. Works great on my Fox and RS forks for the air-spring/lube. Also great for the chain when it's nasty muddy.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

My only thought is it’s because maxima only make a 10wt in the plush range, and it’s viscosity is actually closer to most brands 15wt so that makes more sense....


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JohnnyC7 said:


> My only thought is it's because maxima only make a 10wt in the plush range, and it's viscosity is actually closer to most brands 15wt so that makes more sense....


I've actually found some 10wt and 20wt fox suspension oil. 
So which one would be a better choice?

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## m3the01 (Aug 11, 2008)

Anyone else having issues with the shrink-wrap on the coil, to deaden sound, moving to the top? Mines done this and it's hella noisy... I move it back down and then it's back up next ride.

Suggestions?


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

m3the01 said:


> Anyone else having issues with the shrink-wrap on the coil, to deaden sound, moving to the top? Mines done this and it's hella noisy... I move it back down and then it's back up next ride.
> 
> Suggestions?


Shrink tubing is often shrunk with a heat gun. Maybe the assembler at Push didn't quite give it enough. Set up the tubing exactly where you want it, then go at it with your heat gun. Go gently and gradual--you're not arc welding. Try to go evenly, up, down, and around the circumference. If the tubing starts to smoke or bubble, you've gone a little too far. Back it off. If you're lucky, you might be able to get a little more shrinkage out of the tubing.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> I've actually found some 10wt and 20wt fox suspension oil.
> So which one would be a better choice?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


The 20wt


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## Chefkoch (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi Darren, hi all,

the last months i used the black spring in my 160 mm Lyrik. Because there was always left more the 2 cm of travel, i've orderd a green spring. Now after installiing the new spring the Fork makes a very clanky sound when it comes to near full travel, regardless how much pressure (tries 0 to 50 psi) i put in. The forks works fine but the sound on big compressions is a way to spooky,... i Can`t imagine, that this is ok..Iit's no bottom out,,because i always left 0,5 to 1 cm of travel (agressive rideing)

Here is a link to a video:






Maybe someone can help?

Big Thx


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

So I used the fox gold 20.
Only one ride so far, but to be honest I don't feel that much difference compared to the air shaft. I alao run avy cart.
I am very light, 135lbs, running the yellow spring.
I was expecting a little more of small bump sensitivity.
I didn't replace the seal, did the lower leg service about a month ago.
I will get some new seal kit and the maxima 10wt oil, play with compression and see if the coil improves.

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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Did you grease the seals?


----------



## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Did you grease the seals?


Yes, I used slick honey on the seals and the foam ring from spring side was dipped in the fox 20 gold. The damper side is open bath spectro oil 5wt.

Fox 20wt gold is a pretty thick oil.
Fox 10wt red is like water next to it...

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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

your avy cart could be the reason you're not feeling the expected small bump sensitivity, because of the blow off valve, limited needle valve adjuster & shim tune. maybe change the shim schedule


jazzanova said:


> So I used the fox gold 20.
> Only one ride so far, but to be honest I don't feel that much difference compared to the air shaft. I alao run avy cart.
> I am very light, 135lbs, running the yellow spring.
> I was expecting a little more of small bump sensitivity.
> ...


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

m3the01 said:


> Anyone else having issues with the shrink-wrap on the coil, to deaden sound, moving to the top? Mines done this and it's hella noisy... I move it back down and then it's back up next ride.
> 
> Suggestions?


I believe Darren suggested putting a drop of super glue on it. Mine was doing it and I took a heat gun and shrank it a tiny bit more. It has appeared to work. It has not migrated for over two month now.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

The thickness of the oil is what makes it stick to surfaces and make it extra slippery, i would be looking at your damper tune


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

Any set up suggestions for a 140mm travel 2019 Fox 36 Grip2 with a 210 riding weight?

I'm suffering from too many clickers to click...


----------



## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

who do you guys send your forks to for scheduled damper service or issues? do they care that you have an acs3 kit in it?

i can do the lower leg and simple stuff at home, but the damper rebuild is probably out of my ability


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## luisgutierod (Sep 9, 2015)

useport80 said:


> who do you guys send your forks to for scheduled damper service or issues? do they care that you have an acs3 kit in it?
> 
> i can do the lower leg and simple stuff at home, but the damper rebuild is probably out of my ability


Good question. My LBS guys checked pictures of my '16 fox 36 insides when I was doing the conversion... the air shaft and damper, also videos.. they said its new, dont bother touching the damper.. my pushed fox 36 rocks.. plush as butter, perfect in every sense... im not planning to touch the damper anytime soon...anybody with the same experience ? I bought the fork brand new, well maintained with periodic lower leg service ( more than needed probably, skf seals, maxima oils).


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

useport80 said:


> who do you guys send your forks to for scheduled damper service or issues? do they care that you have an acs3 kit in it?
> 
> i can do the lower leg and simple stuff at home, but the damper rebuild is probably out of my ability


Push will also service and custom tune the damper. I had them do my FIT4 this summer. I just sent the damper in by itself and it was back to me in 3 days total. I live in CO Springs so shipping only took a day each way. I believe it was $125 for the service and the custom tune + shipping. It made a huge difference in mid-stroke support.


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## luisgutierod (Sep 9, 2015)

CUP-TON said:


> Push will also service and custom tune the damper. I had them do my FIT4 this summer. I just sent the damper in by itself and it was back to me in 3 days total. I live in CO Springs so shipping only took a day each way. I believe it was $125 for the service and the custom tune + shipping. It made a huge difference in mid-stroke support.


I have an RC2 thank god.. i know they can but tbh once going coil, the performance is so improved that I would not notice much more in damper tuning.. cheers


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

luisgutierod said:


> I have an RC2 thank god.. i know they can but tbh once going coil, the performance is so improved that I would not notice much more in damper tuning.. cheers


Same here, but after two seasons I wanted it serviced as I had a big trip planned with some park riding and went ahead and got the custom tune while I was at it.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I have a 150mm pike and an acs3 install. Let me preface this post by saying, i love the kit and it was worth it for what I was looking for. That being said... my acs3 is loud. 

I have both a black and green spring. with the green spring, the fork is nearly silent except for near bottom out and bottom out events. It will make a clunking noise when i'm at about 15mm from bottom out, and then it will make a louder clunking noise when i hit full bottom out. 

With the black spring, the fork is always making noise, It clanks and clunks and vibrates within the stanchion almost constantly. 

Is anyone else experiencing their ACS3 being on the loud side? FWIW I've done lower leg and damper service and verified that the noise isn't cables, headset or CSU clicking. 

Another question for the masses, what is everyone doing with the pre-load washers that are in the spring package? Does everyone run all of them provided? The instructions are pretty vague with regards to pre-load.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I have a 150mm pike and an acs3 install. Let me preface this post by saying, i love the kit and it was worth it for what I was looking for. That being said... my acs3 is loud.
> 
> I have both a black and green spring. with the green spring, the fork is nearly silent except for near bottom out and bottom out events. It will make a clunking noise when i'm at about 15mm from bottom out, and then it will make a louder clunking noise when i hit full bottom out.
> 
> ...


The initial black springs required careful positioning of the shrink wrap in order to keep the noise in check. If you have a Black spring that is noisy or vibrates you can reach out to our customer service for a warranty unit. The new Black spring has a larger inside and outside diameter matching the Green and Blue springs allowing it to be better captured inside the fork tube. Customer service can be reached at [email protected]

Darren


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## danny.mendes (Mar 11, 2013)

CUP-TON said:


> Push will also service and custom tune the damper. I had them do my FIT4 this summer. I just sent the damper in by itself and it was back to me in 3 days total. I live in CO Springs so shipping only took a day each way. I believe it was $125 for the service and the custom tune + shipping. It made a huge difference in mid-stroke support.


Push let you send in just the Damper? When I talked to them and told them I only needed the Damper serviced and custom tuned, they said I had to send in the whole fork.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> The initial black springs required careful positioning of the shrink wrap in order to keep the noise in check. If you have a Black spring that is noisy or vibrates you can reach out to our customer service for a warranty unit. The new Black spring has a larger inside and outside diameter matching the Green and Blue springs allowing it to be better captured inside the fork tube. Customer service can be reached at [email protected]
> 
> Darren


Hi Darren. You got in contact with me about this very issue as well as an undersprung new elevensix. I replied more than a week ago but have not heard anything in response from you even after a follow-up email. Please get in contact with me as I am eager to resolve these issues. - Nate

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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

danny.mendes said:


> Push let you send in just the Damper? When I talked to them and told them I only needed the Damper serviced and custom tuned, they said I had to send in the whole fork.


Yes, I did this in mid June. Maybe they changed things.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

***Update. Seems like the issues are currently being resolved. ***

I have sent multiple emails ongoing for the last month or more and have not had a single reply since the 25th July 

I have bought both an elevensix and a acs3 kit from them over the last couple of months. 

I have an issue with both. 

1. Elevensix came slightly undersprung and the spring in the wrong colour. The older elevensix comes with a spring which is slightly bronze in colour where the liquid black model comes with a silver spring. I have the liquid black model with a bronze spring. Purely aesthetics but on a shock which cost so much this bothers me. My elevensix bottoms out on reasonable small features without a smooth transition. I got a 500lb spring but required a 525lb spring. Since they chose the spring I would have thought contacting them and informing them of the issue would be a simple, no dramas mate please return the spring and we will send you out the correct one. After contacting them they suggested that I provided the wrong weight and they do no swap springs. I sent a polite but firm response suggesting possible variation in scales. Finally got a response from the boss, Darren Murphy. He apologized for my experience and suggested that at my weight I was at the high end of a 500lb spring and the low end of a 525lb spring and should have been consulted about what I would prefer. He seems happy to swap the spring. Another issue was that my shock came with the switches set up as climb / descend on the card even though I specifically requested descend and trail. I already have a shock with a climb switch.

2. Acs3 started to make a strange sound and feels as though it is getting caught up inside the fork leg on something. When I got the email from Darren he stated this was a known issue with the heavier weight springs (black and grey) and they have adjusted the diameter to remedy this. Just return the spring and receive a warranty replacement. 

Ok so after multiple emails from sales who I found quite rude finally getting an email from Darren was a welcome response. He sounded eager to help resolve these issues straight away by getting me a 525lb spring and a warranty replacement black spring for my acs3 kit. 

I replied to his email immediately which was more two weeks ago. I have sent two follow up emails and a message on Facebook. I am yet to get a response. I have seen that Darren has been actively posting on mtbr as well as Facebook which is insanely frustrating for me. 

For a small company that is selling such expensive high end products I find this unacceptable. 

*** For what it is worth I bought he products through a local distributor who have been absolutely amazing in trying to resolve this for me. I do not want this post to reflect badly on them in any way. They have been getting the run around from push also. I contacted push directly in an effort to cut out the middle man and also under the impression that they would carry a lot more stock than the local boys. 

At this point I really wish that I had dumped my money into a different brand. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

@thedrizzle

That all sounds super frustrating. Surprising too though. I too have had quite a few dealings with Push over the last few months. I've bought two ACS-3 kits and an 11.6. Had a few issues here and there which they've been super helpful and very responsive in resolving. For me, Push has been nothing but solid in terms of customer service - that includes my multiple (I'm sure super annoying) emails back and forth with them asking questions before I ever committed to purchasing their products. Their communication and follow up has been excellent. I've communicated mostly with Darren - he's awesome. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest picking up the phone and giving them a call, I'm sure they'll get you sorted.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

sdt0012 said:


> @thedrizzle
> 
> That all sounds super frustrating. Surprising too though. I too have had quite a few dealings with Push over the last few months. I've bought two ACS-3 kits and an 11.6. Had a few issues here and there which they've been super helpful and very responsive in resolving. For me, Push has been nothing but solid in terms of customer service - that includes my multiple (I'm sure super annoying) emails back and forth with them asking questions before I ever committed to purchasing their products. Their communication and follow up has been excellent. I've communicated mostly with Darren - he's awesome. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest picking up the phone and giving them a call, I'm sure they'll get you sorted.


agreed. I just had to deal with Push CS over my black spring being one of the early ones that's was the wrong diameter. The process of getting things swapped out couldn't have been better/easier.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

Same here over the years, nothing but great CS out of the Push camp.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

@thedrizzle I can assure that had this transaction gone through us directly that you wouldn't have had the experience you've had. I have sent an email to yourself as well as the reseller who is working with someone here at PUSH to get this resolved for you as quickly as possible.

This is obviously no the situation we want for any customer. 

Darren


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> @thedrizzle I can assure that had this transaction gone through us directly that you wouldn't have had the experience you've had. I have sent an email to yourself as well as the reseller who is working with someone here at PUSH to get this resolved for you as quickly as possible.
> 
> This is obviously no the situation we want for any customer.
> 
> Darren


Thanks Darren

I received your email and look forward to getting things resolved asap.

Nate

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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

CUP-TON said:


> I have the same setup. Check out post #814. My kit was silent at first, then after about 4 months it started knocking so I greased the spring. Seemed to quiet down but never went away. Then it started knocking loudly when I pulled up on the fork. Then I pulled it apart and found this
> View attachment 1207757
> 
> 
> Not saying this is also your issue, but worth checking out.Push was awesome about sending out a new lower unit right away. They have since changed the material that the noise cancelling washer is made out of.


i just opened it up a few days ago and i have this same issue. the black plastic washer is broken.

i emailed darren and PUSH sales, but they haven't responded to me.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

useport80 said:


> i just opened it up a few days ago and i have this same issue. the black plastic washer is broken.
> 
> i emailed darren and PUSH sales, but they haven't responded to me.


If you are in the US, call them.

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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

rondre3000 said:


> If you are in the US, call them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


yeah i tried twice and got voicemail both times. i even tried facebook messenger, no response.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

useport80 said:


> i just opened it up a few days ago and i have this same issue. the black plastic washer is broken.
> 
> i emailed darren and PUSH sales, but they haven't responded to me.


Hey useport, when I had my issue with the noise cancelling washer and emailed Push, They responded with in a day and I had the new lower assembly in my hand with in two days of the email. I'm only about 60 miles South of their shop but still it was a great response. Hopefully they will contact you sooner than later.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

CUP-TON said:


> Hey useport, when I had my issue with the noise cancelling washer and emailed Push, They responded with in a day and I had the new lower assembly in my hand with in two days of the email. I'm only about 60 miles South of their shop but still it was a great response. Hopefully they will contact you sooner than later.


damn lucky you! i'll keep trying to call them.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

I thought it worthwhile to post here that my issues have been resolved since posting here last week. Push have sent out replacement springs for both my acs3 kit and elevensix. I'm a happy camper once again.


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## Dpca10 (Sep 13, 2012)

Important question. If you were buying a coil fork would you choose the ACS-3 and a used fork to put it in or an MRP or CC Helm coil? 
If the answer is ACS-3 what fork is considered to work best? Thanks!


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## shenvatele (Sep 28, 2011)

Anybody have a blue or orange spring for a Fox 36 they want to sell or swap for a gray?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> i just opened it up a few days ago and i have this same issue. the black plastic washer is broken.
> 
> i emailed darren and PUSH sales, but they haven't responded to me.


I haven't received anything from you although my spam filter is a bit aggressive these days. Did you get this resolved yet? We'd be happy to get it warrantied for you.

Darren


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> I haven't received anything from you although my spam filter is a bit aggressive these days. Did you get this resolved yet? We'd be happy to get it warrantied for you.
> 
> Darren


oh weird. maybe it did goto the spam folder due to the photos attached.

but i did speak with dylan and he shipped out a new lower leg assembly. thanks for the help


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

CUP-TON said:


> View attachment 1203240
> View attachment 1203241
> View attachment 1203242
> 
> ...





PUSHIND said:


> I haven't received anything from you although my spam filter is a bit aggressive these days. Did you get this resolved yet? We'd be happy to get it warrantied for you.
> 
> Darren


Hey Darren,

Check your spam for my emails regarding the same issue as above and an undersprung 11.6 shock. I sent the info via the contact us link on your website a few days ago but no reply yet.

Rob


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

Dpca10 said:


> Important question. If you were buying a coil fork would you choose the ACS-3 and a used fork to put it in or an MRP or CC Helm coil?
> If the answer is ACS-3 what fork is considered to work best? Thanks!


As a helm coil owner I can easily recommend it. I also have an 11 6 on my bike. The helm is really well made as I recently took it apart to change the oil and even the internal parts are machined and anodized. It is just a real quality product with great performance. I don't have experience with the acs but I wanted a coil from the manufacturer and of the options the Helm seems the best as mrp was in consideration but I read a lot of issues with the fork.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

w/ your experience w/ other coil forks & AV damper cartridges


kenwood72 said:


> As a helm coil owner I can easily recommend it. I also have an 11 6 on my bike. The helm is really well made as I recently took it apart to change the oil and even the internal parts are machined and anodized. It is just a real quality product with great performance. I don't have experience with the acs but I wanted a coil from the manufacturer and of the options the Helm seems the best as mrp was in consideration but I read a lot of issues with the fork.


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## kenwood72 (Sep 16, 2014)

nhodge said:


> w/ your experience w/ other coil forks & AV damper cartridges


I had an Avy cartridge put into my 36 a couple years ago and thought it was really good but can't really compare it to the helm cuz it has been so long - outside of that I have been riding 36s and a lyric last few years. Is that what you are asking?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

I installed an ACS-3 into my Fox 36 160mm last night. Riding around today and testing the suspension there is a knock about 1/2 to 2/3 the way through the travel. Is this normal? 

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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

Does not sound normal. Mine only makes a noise if I yank up real hard to bunny hop obstacles. Nothing notable on compression.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> I installed an ACS-3 into my Fox 36 160mm last night. Riding around today and testing the suspension there is a knock about 1/2 to 2/3 the way through the travel. Is this normal?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I had this issue with a black spring that came with my kit. It turned out that hte early product black springs were too narrow causing some clunking at half compression. Push warrantied the spring for me. The new spring is larger in ID and OD by 1mm.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

FranzV said:


> Does not sound normal. Mine only makes a noise if I yank up real hard to bunny hop obstacles. Nothing notable on compression.





minimusprime said:


> I had this issue with a black spring that came with my kit. It turned out that hte early product black springs were too narrow causing some clunking at half compression. Push warrantied the spring for me. The new spring is larger in ID and OD by 1mm.


Thanks guys, mine is a green. I took a couple of crappy videos.











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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

I pulled the spring and gently compressed the fork with the bump stomp inflated and the same knock was there albeit quieter, possibly because I wasn't compressing it as hard.

I'm not griping and have full confidence that Push will get me sorted. I just have a group ride tomorrow and a weekend of chaperoning NICA races and trying to see if the bike is safe to ride or not. 

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Like I imagined I both did something stupid and Dylan at Push got me sorted. The "plastic" packaging on the spring is actually heat shrink and is supposed to be on there. Since some dummy, me, took it off the spring can deflect and cause the noise. Fix is to reinstall the heat shrink and all should be good. 

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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Like I imagined I both did something stupid and Dylan at Push got me sorted. The "plastic" packaging on the spring is actually heat shrink and is supposed to be on there. Since some dummy, me, took it off the spring can deflect and cause the noise. Fix is to reinstall the heat shrink and all should be good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


That is awesome X2
Awesome funny and awesome that you got it sorted.
You will not regret it. I had mine about a year and love it.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

CUP-TON said:


> That is awesome X2
> Awesome funny and awesome that you got it sorted.
> You will not regret it. I had mine about a year and love it.


Yeah, I was a bit too excited it seems. My wife had "stored", read hidden, my heat gun. Found it finally now headed to Lowes to get some 28mm ID tubing to quiet the thing down.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

The fork and front tire are the most critical parts of my bike. I want traction and confidence from them. I had a Lyrik with a luftkappe and liked but didn't love it. I bit the financial bullet and bought a new 36 Grip 2 and the ACS kit because I wasn't 100% satisfied with the Lyrik damping and well, the grass is always greener. I weigh 170 before my camelback so about 180lbs ready to ride and run a 170mm fork. 
I started with the green spring and liked it but didn't gain anything in small bump which is what I most wanted. I also wasn't using the last 40mm of travel but really liked the control in steep downhill chop. Then I bought the blue spring. I was only a little better and I still wasn't using the last 25mm still with no air in the bump stop. The fork damping was also hard to figure out. I was far from thrilled with the nearly $1500 spent. 
In near defeat I consulted with a local suspension expert to help me with suspension. After watching me ride through a rock section he backed off my compression and especially rebound damping and I liked his settings more than mine. He also suggested going down further to the Orange spring which is rated for a max of a 160lb rider. 
The orange spring has been magic for me. The fork is amazing now. I'll meet with him once more to fine tune the setting with the orange spring but finally I'm 100% satisfied. I have a Green Fox 36 spring for sale.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

did you take notice of sag w/ the different springs? if so, what were the changes?


artnshel said:


> The fork and front tire are the most critical parts of my bike. I want traction and confidence from them. I had a Lyrik with a luftkappe and liked but didn't love it. I bit the financial bullet and bought a new 36 Grip 2 and the ACS kit because I wasn't 100% satisfied with the Lyrik damping and well, the grass is always greener. I weigh 170 before my camelback so about 180lbs ready to ride and run a 170mm fork.
> I started with the green spring and liked it but didn't gain anything in small bump which is what I most wanted. I also wasn't using the last 40mm of travel but really liked the control in steep downhill chop. Then I bought the blue spring. I was only a little better and I still wasn't using the last 25mm still with no air in the bump stop. The fork damping was also hard to figure out. I was far from thrilled with the nearly $1500 spent.
> In near defeat I consulted with a local suspension expert to help me with suspension. After watching me ride through a rock section he backed off my compression and especially rebound damping and I liked his settings more than mine. He also suggested going down further to the Orange spring which is rated for a max of a 160lb rider.
> The orange spring has been magic for me. The fork is amazing now. I'll meet with him once more to fine tune the setting with the orange spring but finally I'm 100% satisfied. I have both Blue and Green Fox 36 springs for sale.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Has anyone experimented with different oils? I know, this is just to lubricate, so the effect should not be as pronounced as with damper oils...
Anyway, I am currently running 20wt fox gold in the spring side and Avy open bath damper with Avy recommended spectro oil.
Fox gold 20wt is pretty thick.
I have just bought the push recommended maxima plush 10wt for the spring side and it is visibly thinner (even though many say this oil is more like 15wt)

My buddy used to run fox red 10wt with his acs3 and just recently has switched to maxima plush 10wt. He claims there is a noticeable difference and the fork feels much stiffer now. He is even considering to go back to lighter spring (he had it installed initially, but was too soft. This was with fox red 10wt...)


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

artnshel said:


> I have both Blue and Green Fox 36 springs for sale.


I might be interested in your blue spring. Pm me the details!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

artnshel said:


> I have both Blue and Green Fox 36 springs for sale.


Details on the green?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## ehansen007 (Sep 8, 2006)

Question. I just installed my kit on a 2017 lyrik 29 160. I noticed the spring did not sit down where threads are visible but instead I had to preload the spring to start the threads. Sounds like I maybe got a 170mm spring? Did anyone else have this? It’s way to springy and noisy.


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## fabianpaul007 (Jun 14, 2018)

jazzanova said:


> Has anyone experimented with different oils? I know, this is just to lubricate, so the effect should not be as pronounced as with damper oils...
> Anyway, I am currently running 20wt fox gold in the spring side and Avy open bath damper with Avy recommended spectro oil.
> Fox gold 20wt is pretty thick.
> I have just bought the push recommended maxima plush 10wt for the spring side and it is visibly thinner (even though many say this oil is more like 15wt)
> ...


@PUSHIND What is your experience with using different types of oil?


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## ND79 (Aug 28, 2017)

Hi All

Just been having a good read through and got some great information. 

I am going to place an order for a 170 fit 4 Fox 36. 

The fork in now a year old(Rocky Mountain slayer)

I was going to put it in for a service before fitting the acs3. 

However as I will then remove the air spring it seems a bit of a waste. 

Do you think it worth the service before fitting the acs-3?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

ND79 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Just been having a good read through and got some great information.
> 
> ...


Just do the bath oil service while you are installing the ACS-3. 
One thing I have found with both of my setups is that the bath oil gets really dirty after a month of riding, so you may need to do a bath service more often than with the air spring.


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## ND79 (Aug 28, 2017)

Thanks for reply. 
Do you think the damper will need service after 12 months. Approx 2 to 3 rides week. 

Or is the service more for the air spring ?


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

ND79 said:


> Thanks for reply.
> Do you think the damper will need service after 12 months. Approx 2 to 3 rides week.
> 
> Or is the service more for the air spring ?


I have never *needed* a damper service on any of my Fox forks yet.
If your fork damper seems to be working, then I wouldn't do it till it's needed. Just keep up on the bath service and your fork should be fine (till it's not!):thumbsup:


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## rock-rod (Sep 3, 2012)

Just finished installing the ASC3 into my brand new Fox 36 Grip 2 fork. I am in love.


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

Just an update for people looking to buy. Fork : 2018 fox 36 hsc/lsc. Fork was harsh on chatter got the acs3 kit. Was not impressed at first, still bumpy and harsh. Got a lighter spring and now it feels really awesome on the dh. Climbing seems really bouncy but I think that's due to me having the rebound really fast. This fork feels better than my rear dhx2. I'm really pleased with my purchase after getting it dialed.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

FranzV said:


> Just an update for people looking to buy. Fork : 2018 fox 36 hsc/lsc. Fork was harsh on chatter got the acs3 kit. Was not impressed at first, still bumpy and harsh. Got a lighter spring and now it feels really awesome on the dh. Climbing seems really bouncy but I think that's due to me having the rebound really fast. This fork feels better than my rear dhx2. I'm really pleased with my purchase after getting it dialed.


So you've tried two different coil springs and prefer one lighter than recommended by Push? I'm debating trying a lighter coil.


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

SoCal-Rider said:


> So you've tried two different coil springs and prefer one lighter than recommended by Push? I'm debating trying a lighter coil.


Yes. I'm 202lbs with no gear. Im the middle of spring rates.160mm fork, ride dh and rough stuff a lot. Not really hitting big jumps. Black spring helped a little bit on harsh stuff but was maybe a little worse on everything else. Green spring is much better! I also turn hsc all the way out. Lots of people say it helps on climbing, I'm not seeing that. My HTLT seems to bounce everywhere if the climb is rocky and slow.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

FranzV said:


> Yes. I'm 202lbs with no gear. Im the middle of spring rates.160mm fork, ride dh and rough stuff a lot. Not really hitting big jumps. Black spring helped a little bit on harsh stuff but was maybe a little worse on everything else. Green spring is much better! I also turn hsc all the way out. Lots of people say it helps on climbing, I'm not seeing that. My HTLT seems to bounce everywhere if the climb is rocky and slow.


Try more LSC to help with climbing bob.
I'm about the same weight and have just gone from a green to the black spring, the opposite of you. Haven't ridden it yet but I was going through the green travel pretty quickly and am hoping the black gives a bit more mid support without any harshness.


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Try more LSC to help with climbing bob.
> I'm about the same weight and have just gone from a green to the black spring, the opposite of you. Haven't ridden it yet but I was going through the green travel pretty quickly and am hoping the black gives a bit more mid support without any harshness.


That makes total sense!! I will try that.

I may ride like a wuss or something but the green is just about perfect for me. It's only seen 3 rides and some moderately rough runs but has not been in real chunk yet.

The black just felt so stiff on everything and I'd still have like 1.5" of travel left after some pretty rough trails (Toads and Northstar). People say they get softer over time but I gave up on the black after a month or so.


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey all, looking for thoughts from other users to see if what i'm experiencing is normal or indicative of a messed up damper. Also looking for tuning advice. 2019 Fox 36 Grip2 fork with the ACS3 of course. Never rode it air, had the ACS3 kit installed right away. I've been riding it for about 2 months and it has never felt perfect in the mid stroke. Small bumps are decent, and big stuff is plush as a pillow. The inbetween stuff at both slower speed and high speed just feels harsh. Thought I had it figured out yesterday when experimenting with different rebound settings and it felt good for the first 1/2 of a 1K descent today, but it seemed to stiffen up and get harsher for the second half. Never lost composure or anything like that, but the comfort left. 

My settings - about 210-215 kitted up, HSR 3 or 4 from full closed, LSR 3 from full closed, very little compression, and the ABS bump stop psi at about 15. Traction while climbing is excellent and the composure and control while going downhill stupid fast is quite good. Rides high in its travel and is really confidence inspiring, it just seems to beat me up on chunkier chunder. Its a 29er fork at 140 travel. 

Have experimented with various compression/rebound settings and have also made sure to burp the lowers. Any thoughts or suggestions? TIA.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

pianoman84d said:


> Hey all, looking for thoughts from other users to see if what i'm experiencing is normal or indicative of a messed up damper. Also looking for tuning advice. 2019 Fox 36 Grip2 fork with the ACS3 of course. Never rode it air, had the ACS3 kit installed right away. I've been riding it for about 2 months and it has never felt perfect in the mid stroke. Small bumps are decent, and big stuff is plush as a pillow. The inbetween stuff at both slower speed and high speed just feels harsh. Thought I had it figured out yesterday when experimenting with different rebound settings and it felt good for the first 1/2 of a 1K descent today, but it seemed to stiffen up and get harsher for the second half. Never lost composure or anything like that, but the comfort left.
> 
> My settings - about 210-215 kitted up, HSR 3 or 4 from full closed, LSR 3 from full closed, very little compression, and the ABS bump stop psi at about 15. Traction while climbing is excellent and the composure and control while going downhill stupid fast is quite good. Rides high in its travel and is really confidence inspiring, it just seems to beat me up on chunkier chunder. Its a 29er fork at 140 travel.
> 
> Have experimented with various compression/rebound settings and have also made sure to burp the lowers. Any thoughts or suggestions? TIA.


Couple of questions. What bike? What tyre and how much pressure? Which spring?

I'm running the new grip 2 damper but at 160 travel and still messing around with damping settings. Currently have HSC 16 out from closed, LSC 8 out, HSR 2 out, LSR 6 out using the black spring. Only one small ride so far and apart from the noisy spring it feels good.


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Couple of questions. What bike? What tyre and how much pressure? Which spring?
> 
> I'm running the new grip 2 damper but at 160 travel and still messing around with damping settings. Currently have HSC 16 out from closed, LSC 8 out, HSC 2 out, LSC 6 out using the black spring. Only one small ride so far and apart from the noisy spring it feels good.


Thanks, Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol for the bike, Minion DHF 29x2.5 up front (about 23 psi) and Minion DHRII 29x2.4WT for the rear with cushcore (about 26 psi). Grey spring.

Assuming your second HSC/LSC settings are rebound? Also assuming that they are "out" from full slow?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

pianoman84d said:


> Hey all, looking for thoughts from other users to see if what i'm experiencing is normal or indicative of a messed up damper. Also looking for tuning advice. 2019 Fox 36 Grip2 fork with the ACS3 of course. Never rode it air, had the ACS3 kit installed right away. I've been riding it for about 2 months and it has never felt perfect in the mid stroke. Small bumps are decent, and big stuff is plush as a pillow. The inbetween stuff at both slower speed and high speed just feels harsh. Thought I had it figured out yesterday when experimenting with different rebound settings and it felt good for the first 1/2 of a 1K descent today, but it seemed to stiffen up and get harsher for the second half. Never lost composure or anything like that, but the comfort left.
> 
> My settings - about 210-215 kitted up, HSR 3 or 4 from full closed, LSR 3 from full closed, very little compression, and the ABS bump stop psi at about 15. Traction while climbing is excellent and the composure and control while going downhill stupid fast is quite good. Rides high in its travel and is really confidence inspiring, it just seems to beat me up on chunkier chunder. Its a 29er fork at 140 travel.
> 
> Have experimented with various compression/rebound settings and have also made sure to burp the lowers. Any thoughts or suggestions? TIA.


Have you bracketed the damper settings yet? IE, start with everything in the dead nuts center then ride, write down your feelings on how it felt. Then change 1/4 settings to max, do a small loop and then do the same loop with that same setting all the way out in the other direction. Make your determination on which extreme felt better and then split the difference of that and so on and so forth.

The cliff notes is that insufficient compression damping feels wallowy, too much makes the bike jack side to side. Insufficent rebound damping feels pogosticky, where as too much rebound damping feels fine at first and harshness increases with successive impacts.

Too much rebound damping can at times feel like too much compression damping, you have to pay close attention to what the symptoms are. Generally, I run as little rebound as possible during my tuning phase and i start adding clicks if I'm having issues with mid corner grip or being unsettled on jumps.

IE, with rebound the bike should respond even front/back. How fast that even response is from both ends of the suspension, is purely subjective.


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

minimusprime said:


> Have you bracketed the damper settings yet? IE, start with everything in the dead nuts center then ride, write down your feelings on how it felt. Then change 1/4 settings to max, do a small loop and then do the same loop with that same setting all the way out in the other direction. Make your determination on which extreme felt better and then split the difference of that and so on and so forth.
> 
> The cliff notes is that insufficient compression damping feels wallowy, too much makes the bike jack side to side. Insufficent rebound damping feels pogosticky, where as too much rebound damping feels fine at first and harshness increases with successive impacts.
> 
> ...


This is great advice, thanks. I have bracketed some, but I should probably just start over and start from scratch... I may need to speed up LSR (the harshness increasing with successive impacts sounds like my experience). Continued experimentation required


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

pianoman84d said:


> This is great advice, thanks. I have bracketed some, but I should probably just start over and start from scratch... I may need to speed up LSR (the harshness increasing with successive impacts sounds like my experience). Continued experimentation required


I'm glad that this may help lead you in the right direction. I think you're right to focus on LSR/LSC first. These are the two key adjustments that have the most impact on the majority of bike/rider/suspension movements. They also typically have the most impact on the performance of the suspension in terms of range of adjustability and impact. HSR/HSC typically has a very small window of actual adjustment and the events where they come in place are pretty deep/significant events where a lot is going on.

For that reason, I'd say focus on your LSR/LSC bracketing and get comfortable with those settings. I'd start with HSR/HSC dead nuts center and once you're happy with the low speed side of the damping, turn to the high speed to adjust the last little bit of those suspension curves to taste.


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## caldog (Apr 11, 2011)

minimusprime said:


> I'm glad that this may help lead you in the right direction. I think you're right to focus on LSR/LSC first. These are the two key adjustments that have the most impact on the majority of bike/rider/suspension movements. They also typically have the most impact on the performance of the suspension in terms of range of adjustability and impact. HSR/HSC typically has a very small window of actual adjustment and the events where they come in place are pretty deep/significant events where a lot is going on.
> 
> For that reason, I'd say focus on your LSR/LSC bracketing and get comfortable with those settings. I'd start with HSR/HSC dead nuts center and once you're happy with the low speed side of the damping, turn to the high speed to adjust the last little bit of those suspension curves to taste.


For those of us that have difficulty figuring out what each of the settings do, I found this video very helpful:






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## Zeke (May 20, 2004)

Maybe I missed it, or couldn't find it with my massive thread search skills. 
How does the ACS 3 kit compare to the Debonair spring in a Lyrik? Anyone with Debonair gone to the ACS 3 that could give some feedback?? TIA. Z


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## Heiril (Nov 2, 2015)

Zeke said:


> Maybe I missed it, or couldn't find it with my massive thread search skills.
> How does the ACS 3 kit compare to the Debonair spring in a Lyrik? Anyone with Debonair gone to the ACS 3 that could give some feedback?? TIA. Z


Only 2 rides in with my 2019 airspring in a 2018 Lyrik RC on my Capra.

ACS3 in my SB6 feels slightly smoother when I rode both yesterday. Hardly a good comparison as I forgot what number of clicks each fork is on.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> The thickness of the oil is what makes it stick to surfaces and make it extra slippery, i would be looking at your damper tune


Actually no. They're completely different properties.

Viscosity of the oil is just how it responds to shear stress. The adherence depends on what ionic additives are in the oil to make it adhere to metal and plastic.

Which is why lube oils and damping fluids are not the same fluids.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

I've got a Push ACS3 Fox 36 150mm kit with black spring for sale. 1 month of use. It's up on eBay.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

I have a green spring with top cap and two preload spacers for sale if anyone is interested?


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## TheUnknownRider (Oct 2, 2015)

Sent in a 2015 Fox 36 RC2 160mm last month for Push to do the ACS-3 conversion (was originally a 120/160 Talas). Super fast response and turn around. Running it exactly as they specified based on my input. Best money I ever spent.

Didn't see this posted and based on comments of the last several pages seems like others haven't seen it, but sorry if I missed it and this is a repost:








:eekster:


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

So I have a '18 fox 36 with a 160 acs3 kit with a black spring installed. I am having an issue where about 1/4 into travel the fork is not buttery smooth. Kind of feels like a light grinding. I contacted push and they have sent out a replacement spring with a larger OD under warranty. Unfortunately the problem persists. I pulled the lowers tonight and checked everything out and it all appears to be in order. I thought I might have had an issue with the bottom assembly. The only thing that I noticed was the spring in the bottom assembly was a little loose but I managed to seat it properly. I don't know what others look like bit have attached a couple of pics of my bottom assembly. Another thought is that maybe when the spring compresses a little it pushes the preload cap up into the threads in the stanchion. My torque wrench maxes out at 140 and I have the top cap as tight as I dare without damaging it.

Now I am wondering if perhaps what I feel is just the nature of a coil fork or if I have a problem. Does anybody else have this issue?

My other coil fork x-fusion vengeance HLR feels buttery smooth through the entire compression.

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.










Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

thedrizzle said:


> So I have a '17 fox 36 with a 160 acs3 kit with a black spring installed. I am having an issue where about 1/4 into travel the fork is not buttery smooth. Kind of feels like a light grinding. I contacted push and they have sent out a replacement spring with a larger OD under warranty. Unfortunately the problem persists. I pulled the lowers tonight and checked everything out and it all appears to be in order. I thought I might have had an issue with the bottom assembly. The only thing that I noticed was the spring in the bottom assembly was a little loose but I managed to seat it properly. I don't know what others look like bit have attached a couple of pics of my bottom assembly. Another thought is that maybe when the spring compresses a little it pushes the preload cap up into the threads in the stanchion. My torque wrench maxes out at 140 and I have the top cap as tight as I dare without damaging it.
> 
> Now I am wondering if perhaps what I feel is just the nature of a coil fork or if I have a problem. Does anybody else have this issue?
> 
> ...


Mine is smooth all the way through the stroke.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

TheUnknownRider said:


> Didn't see this posted and based on comments of the last several pages seems like others haven't seen it, but sorry if I missed it and this is a repost


Note that what's currently on the PUSH website doesn't quite match that table for the 170mm springs.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

What colour spring do you have installed?


jimarin said:


> Mine is smooth all the way through the stroke.


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

Well just an update. I removed the top out stop adapter even though the fork is a 2018 model according to the fox ID and my fork is pure butter. So stoked!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

thedrizzle said:


> What colour spring do you have installed?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Green. I will say I was having an issue where it felt like it was binding a little around mid stroke. It turned out the shrink tubing wasn't shrunk enough. I hit it with a heat gun and the issue went away. It's butter smooth now.


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Question for Darren, is there negative travel from the top out spring that is counted in the travel listed on the spring kit? I ask because a 170mm 36 with the air spring sits almost 10mm taller than my push 170. The air sits closer to 180mm from seal to crown. The 36 bottoms about 10mm from crown. when I removed the spring top cap and compressed it to bottom it came in around 162mm from seal to where the o-ring stopped. Honestly I like it where it is height wise better than the 170 air at full height anyway but I was just curious. Thanks

PS, I spent a few days riding the 2019 36 with the air spring to see how it was vs the push since every review says they are amazing and so coil like. It's coil like until you actually ride a coil I suppose. It's still not close to the ACS in small bump.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

jimarin said:


> Question for Darren, is there negative travel from the top out spring that is counted in the travel listed on the spring kit? I ask because a 170mm 36 with the air spring sits almost 10mm taller than my push 170. The air sits closer to 180mm from seal to crown. The 36 bottoms about 10mm from crown. when I removed the spring top cap and compressed it to bottom it came in around 162mm from seal to where the o-ring stopped. Honestly I like it where it is height wise better than the 170 air at full height anyway but I was just curious. Thanks
> 
> PS, I spent a few days riding the 2019 36 with the air spring to see how it was vs the push since every review says they are amazing and so coil like. It's coil like until you actually ride a coil I suppose. It's still not close to the ACS in small bump.


My ACS3 Pike 160mm sits about 8mm lower as well. I can manually pull it to 160mm but it goes back to about 152mm by itself.
However it was the same, if not even more with the air shaft.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## Zeke (May 20, 2004)

Not getting full travel on my Pike 160 with ACS3 kit (1 yr old). Dissembled the fork and the bottom out bumper had disintegrated. Grit all over impeding travel. Cleaned everything out and installed new bumper and seals. All good now. 

Anyone else have this happen?


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## TheUnknownRider (Oct 2, 2015)

Somewhat common, pretty sure they revised the bumper material since then

Sent mine in to Push just to be better safe than sorry. It’s been great and loving it, but against the Talas configuration anything is great because that feature prevents using tokens. It would either shake your fillings out or dive faster than a submarine with an open hatch. Now it’s so smooth and controlled. Find myself using more travel, yet never bottoming out. Very confidence inspiring ...


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

I have a green spring for sale if anyone is interested??


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

Can I use the Lyrik specific Rock Shox 0w30 when installing the kit?


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

cYbernation said:


> Can I use the Lyrik specific Rock Shox 0w30 when installing the kit?


I did just that without any issues. Not sure why there would be, it's just splash oil and I had some lying around. Otherwise, I'd probably just pick up a quart of Mobil 1 Synthetic.


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

I tried searching 10 pages of posts and did not see this question (if it is there, I apologize). Is there an ACS3 option for the Fox Fit Grip Rhythm 36 fork 150mm (not the Grip 2)? Thanks.


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Not an expert here bud but you don't need to be concerned because you do nothing with the damper leg (except adjustments, going from air to coil) the ACS system replaces the air cartridge in the left fork leg.


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## evildos (Aug 17, 2015)

Not an expert either, but I agree with the lad above.


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## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

Thanks for the replys. I already own two ACS3 kits, just not for the Rhythm forks. Even though they are 36 forks, I just want to make sure they will fit.


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Ahh, I see but I still wouldn't be concerned. A 36mm stanchion is a 36mm stanchion...

You could contact FOX or PUSH just to be sure but I'd be quite surprised if the inside diameter of a 36mm stanchion on a RHYTHM fork is different from any of the other FOX 36's.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gdb85 said:


> Ahh, I see but I still wouldn't be concerned. A 36mm stanchion is a 36mm stanchion...
> 
> You could contact FOX or PUSH just to be sure but I'd be quite surprised if the inside diameter of a 36mm stanchion on a RHYTHM fork is different from any of the other FOX 36's.


A couple of things going on there.
The first is Fox produce some heavy duty forks with smaller stanchion ID to give more wall thickness. So a F36 has F34 stanchion ID and 1mm thicker wall. Same with F34 and F32 ID. These were supposed to be on E-bikes, but we have customers finding them on other bikes now.

Then we have Fox using different aluminium grades and likely changing stanchion ID and internal tapers in the low end forks compared to the higher end forks.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Dougal said:


> A couple of things going on there.
> The first is Fox produce some heavy duty forks with smaller stanchion ID to give more wall thickness. So a F36 has F34 stanchion ID and 1mm thicker wall. Same with F34 and F32 ID. These were supposed to be on E-bikes, but we have customers finding them on other bikes now.
> 
> Then we have Fox using different aluminium grades and likely changing stanchion ID and internal tapers in the low end forks compared to the higher end forks.


Yes Scott spec a 34 E-Bike fork on some bikes. No mention of it anywhere until the customer bought it in for a travel change...


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Interesting stuff...all the more reason to contact FOX or PUSH


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Man....Monster of a thread topic here! I haven't been around for a while so if I've missed any unanswered questions let me know and I'll get to them.

As for the 36 forks, if you have calipers you can simply depressurize the fork and remove the cap to measure the outside diameter of the thread. I've attached an image for reference. If you have an E-specific fork your thread will be smaller. Standard 36 forks which accept our ACS3 Kit will measure 32.75mm-32.85mm.









Hope that helps.

Darren


----------



## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

Darren / Push - Good to see you popping back by the thread. I'm wondering if you guys have worked much with your ACS3 kit coupled with the new Grip2 damper. And if so, will you be releasing recommended settings similar to what you've got on the site already for the RC2?


----------



## ULEWZ (Dec 10, 2017)

This is an E specific fork, so maybe I am stuck with what I have. Giant Trance E+2 Pro


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

ULEWZ said:


> This is an E specific fork, so maybe I am stuck with what I have. Giant Trance E+2 Pro


Correct. That bike should have the Pedelec series fork which uses the 34mm air shaft system and is not coil compatible.

Darren


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

ULEWZ said:


> Thanks for the replys. I already own two ACS3 kits, just not for the Rhythm forks. Even though they are 36 forks, I just want to make sure they will fit.


No , the ACS3 kit does not work in the Rhythm 36. Here's the response from Push.

"Unfortunately the ID of the stanchion on the Rhythm fork is different from the other 36s and the ACS3 is not compatible. Although we are not currently working on a fitment for that fork, it is on our list to get one in and see what would be needed."


----------



## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

sdt0012 said:


> Darren / Push - Good to see you popping back by the thread. I'm wondering if you guys have worked much with your ACS3 kit coupled with the new Grip2 damper. And if so, will you be releasing recommended settings similar to what you've got on the site already for the RC2?


My question as well! Thank you


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

sdt0012 said:


> Darren / Push - Good to see you popping back by the thread. I'm wondering if you guys have worked much with your ACS3 kit coupled with the new Grip2 damper. And if so, will you be releasing recommended settings similar to what you've got on the site already for the RC2?


We have been riding that fork since it came out. I'll have to check on settings. I do know that I'm running pretty firm compression settings as the new Grip2 is softer overall then the previous RC2.

Darren


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Just checked.....here's one of my GRIP2 setups:

Rider Weight Geared: 195lbs
Rider Age: 45
Riding Style: Still able to send it! Colorado chunk terrain. Big ups, big downs.
2018 Kona Process 153, with ELEVENSIX Trunnion 475lb/in
Fork: 2018 36 160mm
Fork Spring: Green(50lb/in)
LSC: 9 out
HSC: 13 out
LSR: 8 out
HSR: 4 Out

The fork cartridge is a stock unit from FOX. The fork has been serviced and is running our PUSH ULF fork seals so friction is minimal. 

Anyway, that's a start.

Darren


----------



## sdt0012 (Oct 3, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Just checked.....here's one of my GRIP2 setups:
> 
> Rider Weight Geared: 195lbs
> Rider Age: 45
> ...


Right on, thanks!

In your prior note you mention running pretty firm compression settings. But those LSC/HSC settings seem pretty open. 9/12 on LSC and 13/16 HSC? Your settings above are from closed correct?

I'm about 10#'s heavier geared up. Also on a green spring (have tried black but I feel like I get a bit beat up on that one). Hightower LT w/ 160 up front and 11.6 out back.

Currently I'm running
LSC: 6 out
HSC: 13 out
LSR: 5 out
HSR: 3 out

This is pretty good for me, but I'm still searching as I think it could be better. I haven't messed with opening the rebound much more than what I show above. Have pretty much stayed at 6 or less LSR & 4 or less HSR (from closed). Will probably try a little more open on both rebound dials just for kicks.

Anyway - thanks again for the response!


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

PUSHIND said:


> Just checked.....here's one of my GRIP2 setups:
> 
> Rider Weight Geared: 195lbs
> Rider Age: 45
> ...


Darren,

Is it worth it to upgrade to a GRIP2 from the FIT4 HSC/LSC in an ACS-3 36?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Druster (Jul 5, 2016)

Darren,

Its been a year since I converted my air fork to the ASC3. Loved the last year!

Come service time however, I couldn't quite complete the lower leg service. Somehow the ASC3 end, where you would used a tap hammer to disengage it from the lower leg, is stuck and so it wouldn't detach from the lower leg.

Any help provided is appreciated. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Darren,
> 
> Is it worth it to upgrade to a GRIP2 from the FIT4 HSC/LSC in an ACS-3 36?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Not sure that I would spend the money. You'll get an incremental performance gain along with some external adjustability. But a good service and fork seal kit goes a long way. The FIT4 HSC/LSC unit is still pretty damn nice!


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

PUSHIND said:


> Not sure that I would spend the money. You'll get an incremental performance gain along with some external adjustability. But a good service and fork seal kit goes a long way. The FIT4 HSC/LSC unit is still pretty damn nice!


It's either buy that or pull my damper and send it to you guys for a rebuild and tune here in a month or two. Just did the seals and lower service when I installed the ACS3.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Druster said:


> Darren,
> 
> Its been a year since I converted my air fork to the ASC3. Loved the last year!
> 
> ...


Bigger hammer?  Honestly, I have never heard of that so I'm nut sure. I know our internal service department has done quite a few services including kits that were installed by customers without issue.

Let me know,

Darren


----------



## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Hey Darren, speaking of the Grip2 fork do you guys do any custom tuning/valving for that damper for a big guy (240 lb)? Or is it externally adjusted enough that custom internals aren’t required? I have the ASC3 coil, but wonder if the damper could be improved for me when it’s time for a service. Thanks


----------



## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

I wonder if the crush washer is all wedged and jammed up in there.


----------



## ehansen007 (Sep 8, 2006)

Anyone want to trade their orange spring for a blue? 160mm. Not sure if that matters.


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey guys, have the 2019 fox 36 set at 140 with the acs3 already installed. I love it. Might be interested in increasing travel on it (bump up to 150 or 160). How is that done??


----------



## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Unfortunately you need to purchase another whole kit to change travel...390.00

Only 80.00 to change weight of spring for same travel.


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

pianoman84d said:


> Hey guys, have the 2019 fox 36 set at 140 with the acs3 already installed. I love it. Might be interested in increasing travel on it (bump up to 150 or 160). How is that done??





> Unfortunately you need to purchase another whole kit to change travel...390.00
> 
> Only 80.00 to change weight of spring for same travel.


Just to clear things up, you don't have to purchase a whole new kit. You need to purchase a new Lower Plunger assembly and ABS piston which is $114.00. If you're just changing 10mm of travel most likely a new spring will not be necessary.

We're currently migrating to our new inventory management system internally which will allow all of these types of items to be easily purchased though our site. in the meantime you can always reach out to [email protected] for info and ordering.

Darren


----------



## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Just to clear things up, you don't have to purchase a whole new kit. You need to purchase a new Lower Plunger assembly and ABS piston which is $114.00. If you're just changing 10mm of travel most likely a new spring will not be necessary.
> 
> We're currently migrating to our new inventory management system internally which will allow all of these types of items to be easily purchased though our site. in the meantime you can always reach out to [email protected] for info and ordering.
> 
> Darren


Thanks Darren!


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

Dag Gummit! I stand corrected...again. Been happening a lot lately, lol.

Seriously though thanks for clearing that up Darren, especially for me.

I just may read and lurk for a couple weeks until I get more focused...


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Just to clear things up, you don't have to purchase a whole new kit. You need to purchase a new Lower Plunger assembly and ABS piston which is $114.00. If you're just changing 10mm of travel most likely a new spring will not be necessary.
> 
> We're currently migrating to our new inventory management system internally which will allow all of these types of items to be easily purchased though our site. in the meantime you can always reach out to [email protected] for info and ordering.
> 
> Darren


Hey Darren, is that $114 for both the lower plunger and ABS piston or $114 for each part?

Thanks,
Ron

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

rondre3000 said:


> Hey Darren, is that $114 for both the lower plunger and ABS piston or $114 for each part?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron
> ...


Total for both components. We'll be shooting a video very soon on how the DIY conversion works as well as how to service the Air Bump Stop unit.

Darren


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> Total for both components. We'll be shooting a video very soon on how the DIY conversion works as well as how to service the Air Bump Stop unit.
> 
> Darren


I'd be interested on the DIY ABS service video. My latest ACS3 started getting the ABS knock. I normally would just send the ABS back for service but the bike this ACS3 is on is in the Philippines.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

flipnidaho said:


> I'd be interested on the DIY ABS service video. My latest ACS3 started getting the ABS knock. I normally would just send the ABS back for service but the bike this ACS3 is on is in the Philippines.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You sure it's abs knock? I had some odd knock in the fork, I pulled the lowers to do a service, and I noticed that the negative spring isolator had disintegrated. Push is warrantying this through my lbs.


----------



## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

I’m pretty sure. It’s the third one I’ve had with the same problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

flipnidaho said:


> I'm pretty sure. It's the third one I've had with the same problem.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


how do you test for said knock. My acs3 has had some noises lately and after finding this, i assumed it was the negative spring isolator but maybe there is more going on.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

Remove the ABS from the fork. Pull on the lower shaft. If it extends more, your ABS is good. If it’s bottomed out and can’t be extended further, call Push. They will fix it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

Can someone confirm if an MRP Ribbon coil spring is compatible with an ACS3 kit, thanks


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I'd be interested on the DIY ABS service video. My latest ACS3 started getting the ABS knock. I normally would just send the ABS back for service but the bike this ACS3 is on is in the Philippines.





flipnidaho said:


> I'm pretty sure. It's the third one I've had with the same problem.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We've changed the o-rnig size for the main seal head of the ABS unit to increase the static squeeze which eliminates the problem. Oddly enough, because the ABS unit has such low internal pressure it will sometimes leak the negative pressure due to lack of seal squeeze. This can be from either sitting too long without use, or from running minimum pressures.

The new seal can be installed DIY style and is readily available. Riders using more than 20psi of pressure, or riding more frequently generally don't experience the issue.

For reference, the original o-ring was an 8mmx1.5mm, and the replacement is a -011 Buna 70durometer. All ACS3 kits for the last few months have shipped with the -011 o-ring.

Darren


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Can someone confirm if an MRP Ribbon coil spring is compatible with an ACS3 kit, thanks


It is not compatible.

Darren


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> We've changed the o-rnig size for the main seal head of the ABS unit to increase the static squeeze which eliminates the problem. Oddly enough, because the ABS unit has such low internal pressure it will sometimes leak the negative pressure due to lack of seal squeeze. This can be from either sitting too long without use, or from running minimum pressures.
> 
> The new seal can be installed DIY style and is readily available. Riders using more than 20psi of pressure, or riding more frequently generally don't experience the issue.
> 
> ...


I have a very early acs3 kit and I have this issue. How can I go about getting an abs rebuild kit so i can fix this. I just had my bike down for 1 week due to an acs3 warranty issue, I'd prefer to get it rolling with a rebuild kit on the way or a cross ship of the abs system.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> I have a very early acs3 kit and I have this issue. How can I go about getting an abs rebuild kit so i can fix this. I just had my bike down for 1 week due to an acs3 warranty issue, I'd prefer to get it rolling with a rebuild kit on the way or a cross ship of the abs system.


Some people will be able to find the o-ring locally, otherwise, you can contact [email protected] and they can get a replacement in the mail.

Darren


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Darren,
My bike has gone into hibernation for the winter. Should I pump up the bumpstop to 30psi to avoid the issue occurring as the bike hangs from a hook for the winter in the basement?
Thanks,
Eric


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## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> Total for both components. We'll be shooting a video very soon on how the DIY conversion works as well as how to service the Air Bump Stop unit.
> 
> Darren


I am keen to order these parts asap. Do I just send an email through your website?

If the video is not available yet, can you provide some instructions for the installation?

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## ND79 (Aug 28, 2017)

Hi All

Just thought I’d drop the lowers do a quick clean and check the bits over then put some new oil. Trying to undo the 10mm nut on the spring side and the whole thing is turning. Removed the spring and shone a torch in and can see the red cap at bottom of spring tube turning with the nut. 

Can’t get the nut off. Has anyone else had this trouble and any suggestions please.


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## joecx (Aug 17, 2013)

ND79 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Just thought I'd drop the lowers do a quick clean and check the bits over then put some new oil. Trying to undo the 10mm nut on the spring side and the whole thing is turning. Removed the spring and shone a torch in and can see the red cap at bottom of spring tube turning with the nut.
> 
> Can't get the nut off. Has anyone else had this trouble and any suggestions please.


 Try reinstalling the spring and then compress the fork as hard as you can while loosening the nut.If it is necessary I will us a tie down to hold it down.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

The same thing happens with old Zoke forks.
The solution for many is to use an impact driver to remove the foot-nut.
I did for years on both 66's and 888's.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

joecx said:


> Try reinstalling the spring and then compress the fork as hard as you can while loosening the nut.If it is necessary I will us a tie down to hold it down.


That was my thought. Impact would be nice if you had one but aluminum is pretty soft. Idealy Push should machine a torx into the bottom of the rod.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

For reinstalling it, I saw a video which said to grease the threads. Did that and it works like a charm. The impact wrench thing was necessary to remove the marzocchi ones, for installing you had to be very careful to not snap the damping/dummy rod.


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## ND79 (Aug 28, 2017)

Cheers. Will give it a shot


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Wondering if someone pushed their fox grip2 yet?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Wondering if someone pushed their fox grip2 yet?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Well, I have so that's at least 1! It's great.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

pianoman84d said:


> Well, I have so that's at least 1! It's great.


Does Push tune the Grip 2 damper (doesn't show on their web site), or are you talking about the spring kit conversion?


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## bike_futurist (Nov 12, 2018)

any riding acs3 with MoCo yari? Anything to gain from charger 2 rtc3 or rc2?


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## Stupordave (Jan 2, 2003)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Can someone confirm if an MRP Ribbon coil spring is compatible with an ACS3 kit, thanks


Nope. MRP spring is slightly larger (1mm) and just over 10mm longer than the push spring for a 160mm 36.


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## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Noticed Darren uses LSC 10 and the chart suggests LSC 12 for a Green spring at 190lbs.
Anyone run both settings and has better luck with more compression (10)?


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

bike_futurist said:


> any riding acs3 with MoCo yari? Anything to gain from charger 2 rtc3 or rc2?


Curious about this too. Vorsprung says we would notice a bigger improvement going from air spring to coil rather than MoCo to Charger 2. But I can't find a good answer for the Push system.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

When I was just a teen machine shop nerd, and constantly bothering a neighbour who was a Motocross race mechanic - he explained it to me like this.

The damper is what controls the spring motion.

A crap damper will be crap at controlling a mediocre spring.
A crap damper will be crap at controlling a good spring.

A good damper will do well at controlling a mediocre spring.
A good damper will do well at controlling a good spring.

So pick your poison.

Damper < Spring = Upgrade Damper
Spring < Damper = Upgrade Spring

Can anybody explain why this would be incorrect?
Been basing my choices off of this since MTB suspension was introduced, and seems to be working so far.


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## louf (Jul 17, 2015)

Darren,

bit off topic here, any plans to do a tune kit for the new marz bomber coil shock?

thanks


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

Nvm


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

Lost


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## karpiel (Aug 27, 2010)

Ericx145 said:


> Yall need to get a Avalanche Downhill Racing/Suspension damper for your fork if you have any questions feel free to message me and I'll get you on the right track!


Hey Ericx145. are you new on the payroll at Avy HQ ?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

karpiel said:


> Hey Ericx145. are you new on the payroll at Avy HQ ?


If so definitely not a good look.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

Nvm


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

tuckerjt07 said:


> If so definitely not a good look.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I have no clue how to use this forum. Just was helping there products

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Ericx145 said:


> What's not a good look promoting there products lol?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Where to start, thread hijacking, utilizing incorrect words, shilling products in a competitor's thread, etc.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Where to start, thread hijacking, utilizing incorrect words, shilling products in a competitor's thread, etc.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Like I said I've never used this thought it's a open forum I'm confused, a competitors thread I'm lost..?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Ericx145 said:


> I have no clue how to use this forum. Just was helping there products
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


seems like you're missing more than one clue


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

nhodge said:


> seems like you're missing more than one clue


I don't use forums ever I was online then tried this app now I'm all screwed up.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Ericx145 said:


> I don't use forums ever I was online then tried this app now I'm all screwed up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


confirmed


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

nhodge said:


> confirmed


Confirmed is right.. I had no clue where I posted my bad... not the end of the world I removed my posts... didnt know I posted in the wrong place

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## karpiel (Aug 27, 2010)

Let's not shoot Ericx145 down in flames, genuinely hard to navigate if you are new to forums. 

Always great to have a manufacturer online here for help and support after all.


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

karpiel said:


> Let's not shoot Ericx145 down in flames, genuinely hard to navigate if you are new to forums.
> 
> Always great to have a manufacturer online here for help and support after all.


Thank you... going from the online version on my phone to this I had no clue what I clicked and posted in. I didnt know where I put those. I thought u could delete a post on a forum. I would of deleted them and posted some where else.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Ericx145 said:


> Thank you... going from the online version on my phone to this I had no clue what I clicked and posted in. I didnt know where I put those. I thought u could delete a post on a forum. I would of deleted them and posted some where else.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If you work for a manufacturer or company it's mandatory that you identify that in your signature. If you are employed at Avalanche you need to disclose that so that individuals know where your comment bias may be coming from. We all play by those rules.

Darren


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Where to start, thread hijacking, utilizing incorrect words, shilling products in a competitor's thread, etc.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Doesn't necessarily has to be a competitor. Both can work nicely in symbiosis. The best of both worlds, Push coil spring with an Avy cartridge 

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

PUSHIND said:


> If you work for a manufacturer or company it's mandatory that you identify that in your signature. If you are employed at Avalanche you need to disclose that so that individuals know where your comment bias may be coming from. We all play by those rules.
> 
> Darren


I don't work for any one idk wtf I'm doing... I just wanna delete my acount this is crazy I posted something wrong jeez I'm a motorcycle mechanic...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Ericx145 said:


> I don't work for any one idk wtf I'm doing... I just wanna delete my acount this is crazy I posted something wrong jeez I'm a motorcycle mechanic...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Eric, you sent an email thorough our website sales inbox claiming that you're with Avalanche, and you also sent us a direct message last week saying that you work at Avalanche?

Darren


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

PUSHIND said:


> Eric, you sent an email thorough our website sales inbox claiming that you're with Avalanche, and you also sent us a direct message last week saying that you work at Avalanche?
> 
> Darren


What are you talking about no remotely true.. I have nothing to do with avalanche at all.. I work for a motorcycle shop

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

There goes the neighborhood. So hard to play by the rules these days.


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

PUSHIND said:


> Eric, you sent an email thorough our website sales inbox claiming that you're with Avalanche, and you also sent us a direct message last week saying that you work at Avalanche?
> 
> Darren


I love there **** I have nothing to do with them.. now you are all harassing me this is ridiculous.. i dont know **** about this forum and I sure never messaged you I have barely heard of your name u must have the wrong person...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Ericx145 said:


> What are you talking about no remotely true.. I have nothing to do with avalanche at all.. I work for a motorcycle shop
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You made a mistake. Own it and move on...no big deal. We have the email from 10/28/17 from your comcast email account and the direct message from 1/25/19 from your IG account to prove it.

Darren


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

PUSHIND said:


> You made a mistake. Own it and move on...no big deal. We have the email from 10/28/17 from your comcast email account and the direct message from 1/25/19 from your IG account to prove it.
> 
> Darren


What email lol I didnt email any one but let's drop it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Ericx145 (Jan 11, 2019)

mykel said:


> When I was just a teen machine shop nerd, and constantly bothering a neighbour who was a Motocross race mechanic - he explained it to me like this.
> 
> The damper is what controls the spring motion.
> 
> ...


Hi, I was trying to respond to Mykels post about dampers and the importance of good springs and that they are important too. I come from a Motorcycle Mechanic background and I was pointing out the Avalanche's damper cartridge and the fact that all dampers are also as important to the fork. I then got lost & confused as I am new to using this forum and I am very sorry if I offended anyone. I know things need to be spelled out and I am sorry for the language I used, I didn't mean to derail the thread as I got frazzled and didn't know what to say at that point. Again, I am sorry for my words and the way they came across. I do tech work at Racing Suspension Products and try to help Craig at Avalanche and I am just learning and hope to work along side him one day. I look up to him and was just trying to help and this all got out of hand. Again I am sorry, especially Darren at Push Industries as his products are very important to the sport as other competing companies products are as well.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Can we keep this thread about the ACS3 kit?
Lots of good info here which makes for a useful thread.

Maybe start coil/damper specific thread?


----------



## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

Back on topic, Darren can you confirm if the ACS3 kit will work well with the Yari MoCo? Or should we be upgrading to the Charger 2 first


----------



## inaxganja (Aug 8, 2016)

Hi Darren,

Is someday ACS3 kit going to be available for Cane Creek Helm??


----------



## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Does Push tune the Grip 2 damper (doesn't show on their web site), or are you talking about the spring kit conversion?


We do, we just haven't rolled it out full scale. The complete forks we sell are tuned Grip2 units, and we do offer tuning if you send your fork in for an ACS3 installation. We'll have more offerings soon.



> any riding acs3 with MoCo yari? Anything to gain from charger 2 rtc3 or rc2?


We've sold a lot of kits to Yari customers so the answer is yes to people riding them. As for the damper, you can upgrade to get another level of performance, but the ACS3 kit is going to provide the biggest bang for the buck no question.



> Noticed Darren uses LSC 10 and the chart suggests LSC 12 for a Green spring at 190lbs.
> Anyone run both settings and has better luck with more compression (10)?


Always important to note that the spring rate and damping settings are guides and not law. You should always experiment to find your personal preference!



> Damper < Spring = Upgrade Damper
> Spring < Damper = Upgrade Spring
> 
> Can anybody explain why this would be incorrect?
> Been basing my choices off of this since MTB suspension was introduced, and seems to be working so far.


Spring rate = Ride height and bottoming control
Damper = Suspension characteristic.

The simple thing to look at is this: If I radically change the air pressure say 20psi, or in the case of a coil 2 spring rates, how rideable is my fork? Now, if I change my low speed or high speed compression by 4 clicks in either direction how rideable is the fork? Proper spring setup far outweighs the damper in most cases.



> Back on topic, Darren can you confirm if the ACS3 kit will work well with the Yari MoCo? Or should we be upgrading to the Charger 2 first


It absolutely will and provide a significant performance upgrade.



> Is someday ACS3 kit going to be available for Cane Creek Helm??


Never say never, but at this point it's not really in the pipeline.

Darren


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Darren!


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Just to clear things up, you don't have to purchase a whole new kit. You need to purchase a new Lower Plunger assembly and ABS piston which is $114.00. If you're just changing 10mm of travel most likely a new spring will not be necessary.
> 
> We're currently migrating to our new inventory management system internally which will allow all of these types of items to be easily purchased though our site. in the meantime you can always reach out to [email protected] for info and ordering.
> 
> Darren


Is this up for sale on the site yet, or should I or Guerrilla Gravity reach out directly to order? And looking at the chart, I think you're right and my grey spring should still work with my current riding weight.

Thanks


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

pianoman84d said:


> Is this up for sale on the site yet, or should I or Guerrilla Gravity reach out directly to order? And looking at the chart, I think you're right and my grey spring should still work with my current riding weight.
> 
> Thanks


Call them and Dylan will take care of you. I did the same and had the parts needed in the same week.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## JimF777 (Sep 23, 2018)

I love my kit in my 36, and now that I have a new bike coming with a newer model fork, I contacted PUSH to ask about compatibility. They offered to send me the correct adapter FOC for when I'm ready to switch it over! They are awesome.


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## pianoman84d (Apr 4, 2017)

rondre3000 said:


> Call them and Dylan will take care of you. I did the same and had the parts needed in the same week.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Cool beans, thanks!


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

Darren,

Just got my kit installed, green spring, on Fox 36 2018, 160mm. I had to press the air cap down pretty firmly to get the threads to engage, more then a few mm to the point where it didnt feel normal, it was a bit of a struggle. The black and gray springs dont use the preload cap...

After test ride thought...

Can the green spring nest in the cap like the gray and black spring? 

Can I remove the black preload cap on the green spring to get more suppleness off the top end without causing any issues? Or perhaps file down the black cap spacer so its thinner if i cant remove it?

thanks


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

dmar123 said:


> Darren,
> 
> Just got my kit installed, green spring, on Fox 36 2018, 160mm. I had to press the air cap down pretty firmly to get the threads to engage, more then a few mm to the point where it didnt feel normal, it was a bit of a struggle. The black and gray springs dont use the preload cap...
> 
> ...


Something sounds off. Did your kit come with preload cap with 3 rings machined on the outside like this:









Darren


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Something sounds off. Did your kit come with preload cap with 3 rings machined on the outside like this:
> 
> View attachment 1241578
> 
> ...


yes. Install went straight forward and spring is seated correctly.

Can I try riding the spring without the preload cap?... is there something different going on with the grey and black springs that dont require a preload cap in the way they nest in the air cap directly?

I had to press the air cap down pretty hard to get it to thread... I had to put some weight on it...On the test ride it feels good, its not horrible or anything, but I was expecting it to be a little more supple off the top end. FYI I did also test with compression open and 0psi in bumpstop.

possible I got a spring with a +tolerance?

well....I ended up grinding/removing some of the plastic thickness off the inside top end of the preload cap, now the air cap screws on with a lot less effort. Only have to push down/compress the spring a little bit to engage the threads...Similar to how you described in a previous post as being normal. Test ride is much closer to what I was expecting off top end.

But still wondering if i could try removing the cap altogether since the heavier springs dont use it? And get more suppleness off the top end?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

dmar123 said:


> yes. Install went straight forward and spring is seated correctly.
> 
> Can I try riding the spring without the preload cap?... is there something different going on with the grey and black springs that dont require a preload cap in the way they nest in the air cap directly?
> 
> ...


Hmmmm....something seems strange. I would reach out to [email protected] for support. What you're describing is not something we've come across before. If you're starting to grind things it's not right. The Black and Grey springs have a large wire diameter to achieve the rate and therefore need to be longer in length. A green spring without a preload cap would not be fully engaged in the fork.

Darren


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

PUSHIND said:


> Hmmmm....something seems strange. I would reach out to [email protected] for support. What you're describing is not something we've come across before. If you're starting to grind things it's not right. The Black and Grey springs have a large wire diameter to achieve the rate and therefore need to be longer in length. A green spring without a preload cap would not be fully engaged in the fork.
> 
> Darren


ok will do, thanks for the quick reply.

Can you confirm real quick how much force it should take to engage the air cap threads into the fork? Is it very little to none? ...should it drop right in like the install video? -thanks again!


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

dmar123 said:


> ok will do, thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> Can you confirm real quick how much force it should take to engage the air cap threads into the fork? Is it very little to none? ...should it drop right in like the install video? -thanks again!


The spring without preload cap should sit just slightly below, or flush with the top of the stanchion tube/crown if things are correct. This means that you're adding approximately 0.125" - 0.200" of preload when you install it. That much preload on a 50lb/in(Green) spring would only be 6-10lbs of force so it should be quite easy.

If your spring is sitting above the crown than something is wrong. We've shipped thousands of green spring kits without issue, but it is possible the spring is out of spec. The spring should measure 12"(305mm) in length.

Darren

Darren


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

Be sure your fork is fully extended when screwing down the topcap, too.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

Just ordered the ACS3 kit yesterday. Does it come with crush washers for reassembly? I just did my lower leg service 3 weeks ago so I didn't order the Push service kit with the coil kit.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

Yes, it does come with crush washers.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

rondre3000 said:


> Yes, it does come with crush washers.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Darren said yesterday that it only comes with the spring side washer?


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## otsdr (Nov 15, 2009)

According to the installation videos on youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/user/PUSHIndustriesInc/videos ), the crush washers are part of the DIY lower leg service kit, which needs to be purchased separately.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

Darren said it comes with the spring side washer only but that it was okay to reuse the one on the damper side if anyone else is wondering. 

I just did my lower leg service about 3 weeks ago so I didn't order the Push lower service kit. I like to makes things difficult. lol


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

Leaky seals. Has anyone gotten leaky fork seals with the acs3 kit? I've had the acs3 kit on my 2018 fox 36s and yesterday they started getting oil all over the kashima part of the fork. This has never happened before. I have been riding in the norcal wet slop lately so probably my fault. Kit is less than a year old. I actually put new seals on my fork before installing push kit. On motos it means replace the fork seal. Same with these?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

FranzV said:


> Leaky seals. Has anyone gotten leaky fork seals with the acs3 kit? I've had the acs3 kit on my 2018 fox 36s and yesterday they started getting oil all over the kashima part of the fork. This has never happened before. I have been riding in the norcal wet slop lately so probably my fault. Kit is less than a year old. I actually put new seals on my fork before installing push kit. On motos it means replace the fork seal. Same with these?


Are they PUSH fork seals?

Darren


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

No they are not push seals, they are fox fork seals.


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

And just so anybody who reads this knows. The coil upgrade is straight amazing on the fox 36. Not at all complaining, just curious about my situation.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

FranzV said:


> No they are not, fox fork seals.


Now I see the problem! 

The ACS3 Kit actually reduces seal pressure on the fork seals, so that wouldn't have been the cause of anything...now those wet/muddy conditions you mentioned though....

Darren


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

Gotcha. Yes, lots of mud and rain rides recently. And yesterday was bigger than normal drops for me (5-6') so I'm guessing that added more stress too.


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## Eluiso (Nov 7, 2007)

I would like to upgrade my RockShox Yari with your ASC-3 coil kit. One quick question:

My bike spends every evening and the entire winter season hanged from the front wheel, facing upwards. Should I have any precautions with the top up spring when I hang my bike?

Thanks in advance,

Eluiso


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

Eluiso said:


> I would like to upgrade my RockShox Yari with your ASC-3 coil kit. One quick question:
> 
> My bike spends every evening and the entire winter season hanged from the front wheel, facing upwards. Should I have any precautions with the top up spring when I hang my bike?
> 
> ...


A spring being compressed does not cause any wear or rate loss. Technically cycling is what causes that but with high quality springs, it should never be an issue. A coil on a vehicle lives it's whole life compressed.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Eluiso said:


> I would like to upgrade my RockShox Yari with your ASC-3 coil kit. One quick question:
> 
> My bike spends every evening and the entire winter season hanged from the front wheel, facing upwards. Should I have any precautions with the top up spring when I hang my bike?
> 
> ...


Nope, hanging you bike will have no effect on the fork.

Supplies are quite limited, but if you're looking to pick up a kit we still have a few cosmetic blemished kits that we're selling at a discount: https://www.pushindustries.com/collections/blemished

Darren


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

I have a question for acs3 owners (or maker!) I run one(orange spring) in my 2015 RC2 mm fox 36. I weight about 152 with my riding clothes and helmet. I'm able to bottom out on 3-4 feet drops with the air bump stop inflated to 20-30psi, which seem to be where most people are in terms of pressure. So I took the air bump stop out and with that pressure inside, I can bottom out the thing by simply applying some weight on it. Something seems wrong to me as I don't see how that would prevent bottom out in a high speed event under my whole weight plus the weight of the bike. 

Is anybody able to tell me if they experience the same thing when pushing down on their air bump stop?


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

*Paint chipping off spring*

Does anyone know if the paint chipping off my coil spring will cause issues? I took my spring out the other day and there are a few inches where the spring rubbed the fork and removed the paint on the outside of the coil. I believe it is a green spring for a fox 36.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

nightnerd said:


> I have a question for acs3 owners (or maker!) I run one(orange spring) in my 2015 RC2 mm fox 36. I weight about 152 with my riding clothes and helmet. I'm able to bottom out on 3-4 feet drops with the air bump stop inflated to 20-30psi, which seem to be where most people are in terms of pressure. So I took the air bump stop out and with that pressure inside, I can bottom out the thing by simply applying some weight on it. Something seems wrong to me as I don't see how that would prevent bottom out in a high speed event under my whole weight plus the weight of the bike.
> 
> Is anybody able to tell me if they experience the same thing when pushing down on their air bump stop?


Yes, you will be able to fully compress the air bump stop by hand. Bump your air pressure up to 40-50psi and you will see that it is noticeably harder to compress.

Are these 3-4' drops to flat? Is it a harsh bottom out or are you going by where the fork indicator is?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

You don't mention the travel of your fork. PUSH notes in this video that the recommended bump stop pressure is travel-dependent to a certain extent.

My bump stop suggested pressure is 15psi but I usually set it at 20, because that's as low as my shock pump will provide a reading (hard to find one that even exists with a 10psi hash mark).


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

tbmaddux said:


> You don't mention the travel of your fork. PUSH notes in this video that the recommended bump stop pressure is travel-dependent to a certain extent.
> 
> My bump stop suggested pressure is 15psi but I usually set it at 20, because that's as low as my shock pump will provide a reading (hard to find one that even exists with a 10psi hash mark).


Could always use a floor pump.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> I have a question for acs3 owners (or maker!) I run one(orange spring) in my 2015 RC2 mm fox 36. I weight about 152 with my riding clothes and helmet. I'm able to bottom out on 3-4 feet drops with the air bump stop inflated to 20-30psi, which seem to be where most people are in terms of pressure. So I took the air bump stop out and with that pressure inside, I can bottom out the thing by simply applying some weight on it. Something seems wrong to me as I don't see how that would prevent bottom out in a high speed event under my whole weight plus the weight of the bike.
> 
> Is anybody able to tell me if they experience the same thing when pushing down on their air bump stop?


What travel is your fork? It may be that you simply need to go up in spring rate based on your riding style.

As for the ABS unit it is a very low pressure system so compressing it in your hand is normal.



> Does anyone know if the paint chipping off my coil spring will cause issues? I took my spring out the other day and there are a few inches where the spring rubbed the fork and removed the paint on the outside of the coil. I believe it is a green spring for a fox 36.


That seems odd. Are you running the plastic heat shrink wrap on the outside of your spring?

Darren


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## FranzV (Oct 4, 2017)

Yes, the heat shrink slipped to one end of the spring.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

PUSHIND said:


> What travel is your fork? It may be that you simply need to go up in spring rate based on your riding style.
> 
> As for the ABS unit it is a very low pressure system so compressing it in your hand is normal.
> 
> Darren


The fork travel is 160mm. Based on your input and the other forum members, my bump stop seems to be working the way it should. I'm hesitating going up in spring rate as while I bottom out on medium sized drop, I wouldn't want the fork to be firmer when dealing with small bumps. While lsc is where Push recommend it, hsc is backed all the way out.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

nightnerd said:


> The fork travel is 160mm. Based on your input and the other forum members, my bump stop seems to be working the way it should. I'm hesitating going up in spring rate as while I bottom out on medium sized drop, I wouldn't want the fork to be firmer when dealing with small bumps. While lsc is where Push recommend it, hsc is backed all the way out.


I am running the blue spring (45 lbs/in.) in my 160 mm Fox 36 and I weigh 172 lbs ready to ride. I just installed it last Monday and rode Southern California all week. I rode a couple pretty rowdy trails (Grudge and Undertow in Simi Valley) and initially had my pressure set at 25 PSI. After a couple very harsh bottom outs on my first run down, I bumped the pressure up to 50 PSI. No issues after that and the fork works awesome. Don't be afraid to add some more pressure to the bump stop.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> Yes, the heat shrink slipped to one end of the spring.


Copy that. Yeah, you'll want to recenter and hit with a little heat, or put a new piece on there all together. You could also drop the lowers and clean out any debris and reinstall with fresh bath fluid. The spring itself will be fine.



> The fork travel is 160mm. Based on your input and the other forum members, my bump stop seems to be working the way it should. I'm hesitating going up in spring rate as while I bottom out on medium sized drop, I wouldn't want the fork to be firmer when dealing with small bumps. While lsc is where Push recommend it, hsc is backed all the way out.


If you're running the HSC at full open, then the LSC is not having any effect. I would recommend getting your compression back to say 14-out on both the LSC and HSC to have some meaningful effect to start. If you still are moving through the travel too much you can increase your ABS pressure 5psi at a time to help. This shouldn' have a negative effect on small bump performance.



> I am running the blue spring (45 lbs/in.) in my 160 mm Fox 36 and I weigh 172 lbs ready to ride. I just installed it last Monday and rode Southern California all week. I rode a couple pretty rowdy trails (Grudge and Undertow in Simi Valley) and initially had my pressure set at 25 PSI. After a couple very harsh bottom outs on my first run down, I bumped the pressure up to 50 PSI. No issues after that and the fork works awesome. Don't be afraid to add some more pressure to the bump stop.


:thumbsup:

Darren


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

One thing that I just noticed checking the pressure in my bump stop is that it loses about 10 PSI just getting my shock pump off of it. I pumped it up to 50 PSI and then checked it with my Topeak digital gauge and it was at 40. Some of that may be the difference between my shock pump gauge and my tire gauge but I lose about 5 PSI every time I check it with the tire gauge. Not that big of a deal but something to keep in mind. You may not have as much pressure in it as you think you do.


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## Marshall Willanholly (Jan 27, 2004)

rynomx785 said:


> One thing that I just noticed checking the pressure in my bump stop is that it loses about 10 PSI just getting my shock pump off of it. I pumped it up to 50 PSI and then checked it with my Topeak digital gauge and it was at 40. Some of that may be the difference between my shock pump gauge and my tire gauge but I lose about 5 PSI every time I check it with the tire gauge. Not that big of a deal but something to keep in mind. You may not have as much pressure in it as you think you do.


https://enduro-mtb.com/en/air-loss-shock-pump/

https://bikerumor.com/2018/10/11/su...h-air-do-you-lose-disconnecting-a-shock-pump/


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

Marshall Willanholly said:


> https://enduro-mtb.com/en/air-loss-shock-pump/
> 
> https://bikerumor.com/2018/10/11/su...h-air-do-you-lose-disconnecting-a-shock-pump/


Well, way to make me look like an idiot without so much as typing a single word! LOL

Good info. Thanks for setting the record straight.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

The bump stop is really small in volume also, so it’s an even bigger effect than on an air shock or air-sprung fork. Even my dropper inflates slower.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

tbmaddux said:


> The bump stop is really small in volume also, so it's an even bigger effect than on an air shock or air-sprung fork. Even my dropper inflates slower.


Yeah, definitely not much volume to work with. Good to know about the shock pump though. lol


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## javigutz (Aug 10, 2011)

Question:

Can I preload (for fine tunning) the spring on the ACS3 kit?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

javigutz said:


> Question:
> 
> Can I preload (for fine tunning) the spring on the ACS3 kit?


Yes, the kit comes with preload spacers.

Darren


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## javigutz (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks


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## Scottyman (May 29, 2006)

How often is maintenance required on the bump stop? Is it possible to blow through the seals in the bp if bottoming out?
Also, does increasing bp air pressure have ANY effect on the 1st half of travel?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Scottyman said:


> How often is maintenance required on the bump stop? Is it possible to blow through the seals in the bp if bottoming out?
> Also, does increasing bp air pressure have ANY effect on the 1st half of travel?


Approximately 18-24months on the ABS unit, so not very frequently. Also, the ABS pressure has Zero effect on the first 60% of travel.

Darren


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

I can't answer your first 2 questions but the bump stop has ZERO effect on the first two-thirds of the travel.


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## Scottyman (May 29, 2006)

Is the ABS maintenance DIY?


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

Scottyman said:


> Is the ABS maintenance DIY?


It is just a small air spring so it can't be overly complicated. May require a special tool from to disassemble?


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

After talking to some peeps I upgraded the damper on my Fox 36 2018 from the FIT to the GRIP2. 

I was pretty stoked on the ACS3 kit with the FIT damper, but upgrading to the GRIP2 the fork is next level, what a difference that made! No more harshness and the hands are happy!

Not sure if my FIT damper was kuput or needed service or the GRIP2 is that much better...but highly recommend the ACS3/GRIP2 combo.

-end story.


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

Hey Darren,

do you have any Information fore us guys here on the new damper for forks you sneak-peeked on instagram? is it going to be Rockshox and Fox? greatly looking forward to this!


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

It's Rockshox. Go look at the charger 2 damper mods thread (link is to first post, thread is worth reading if you want to nerd out otherwise you'll have to jump ahead to find PUSHIND posting details here and there). They of course already will customize Fox dampers if you get an ACS-3.


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

thanks for the info


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## enjoi525 (Oct 11, 2013)

Is a rockshox kit compatible with a DVO Diamond, 35mm stanchion or is a Fox kit with DVO Onyx 36mm stanchion?


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

enjoi525 said:


> Is a rockshox kit compatible with a DVO Diamond, 35mm stanchion or is a Fox kit with DVO Onyx 36mm stanchion?


No.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Finally got my ACS3 kit as part of a fork project and let me tell you ... it doesn't disappoint 

My go to fork has been the 36 RC2 for years now! The last one was custom tuned + Luftkape.

Settings: 65/70 PSI, HSC full open, LSC full open, 3 tokens. (I'm 80kg ready to ride)

When it was way better than the original settings, I was still finding myself in between settings ... either a bit too harsh (spiky) one day or too soft the next (diving too much) ... well I'm sure you know what I'm talking about ... it wasn't too far from the truth but never quit there ... I knew it could be better!

I've got a coil shock (CCDB Coil inline) on my Yeti SB5.5 and that's probably the upgrade I'm most happy about. Never cease to amaze me, very very good and light (I wrote a quick post about it to tell everyone that a coil shock can if fact be lighter than an air shock, in my case 50g lighter than my previous X2 ... anyways if you are interested, it's there: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/coil-shock-lighter-than-air-1099309.html)

Back to the ACS3, being super happy with a coil shock I dreamed of the same feel at the front ...

So I've decided to keep the 36 as it is right now, so I know I have a backup to get back to if needed, but ...

I bought a second hand (but brand new) Yari RC (cheap). The Lyric and Yari share the same chassis, so why pay more when you are going to replace everything inside .... except the Dual Flow rebound instead of the Rapid Recovery ... but the NovyParts (more on that company down below) owner told me they work better anyway ... more oil flow apparently ... he's tuning suspensions for Cecile Ravanel amongst other pros on the EWS and DH WC so I tend to believe him 

I replaced the Motion Control damper with a custom tuned Novypart SPLUG.
Installed a push ACS3 kit (blue spring) to replace the air spring. And Now we're talking ... it ticks all the boxes.

Good everywhere (during all 3 phases of travel) crazy grip ... but very curiously .... really really poppy ... and that is something I was not expecting ...

It needs more testing, especially on rough rugged rocky trails ... but so far it's very pleasant and the 36 might not see any more action for sometimes ... I like it a lot!

More about the «*Novypart SPLUG*»

For $170 you get a custom tuned damper (based on you weight, terrain, etc ...) to replace the motion control ... it takes 5mns and does a much better job, especially since it's tailored to you and your bike.

For more info: https://www.novyparts.com/produits-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/splug-bloc-de-compression-hydraulique/splug-bloc-de-compression-hydraulique.html

It's based in France but they speak English! (It's all black, not like the pic on their website ... much better in my opinion)

Thanks PUSH for making this kit, it works really well! The damper upgrade/tune is optional ... but if you really want to unleash the potential of this kit ... I would strongly advise you to do it. PUSH/GRIP2/CHARGER2/SPLUG or else (with a way to access the setup from the outside LSC/HSC)


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I read most of this thread but have to crash.

I have a 2018 Fit4 140mm Factory 36. How effective would it be simply dropping an ACS3 kit in it with no change of damper or custom tune? I should have had my **** together over the winter but as it stands now, I don't want to ship my fork away for the tune. Is it worth getting the ACS3 alone, with no accompanying tune?

Thanks.

*not the right thread, but also seriously thinking of throwing down on an 11-6 at the same time...


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I have a 2018 Fit4 140mm Factory 36. How effective would it be simply dropping an ACS3 kit in it with no change of damper or custom tune?


Very effective  it's the biggest change you can make ...

The damper helps to give more control (to the way the fork reacts), and while it's definitely a must to go all the way, I'm sure it'll give you complete satisfaction. Knowing the FIT damper is not half bad to start with (not like the very basic «*motion control*» from RS).

From a plushness and friction-free point of view ... this is your ticket!

Enjoy


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I read most of this thread but have to crash.
> 
> I have a 2018 Fit4 140mm Factory 36. How effective would it be simply dropping an ACS3 kit in it with no change of damper or custom tune? I should have had my **** together over the winter but as it stands now, I don't want to ship my fork away for the tune. Is it worth getting the ACS3 alone, with no accompanying tune?
> 
> ...


To put in perspective, Darren from Push said 5-8% gains from a custom damper tune and 40% gain from from the ACS3. I can't elaborate on that much passed saying that the ACS3 kit is bad ass and works really well.


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

digev said:


> Very effective  it's the biggest change you can make ...
> 
> The damper helps to give more control (to the way the fork reacts), and while it's definitely a must to go all the way, I'm sure it'll give you complete satisfaction. Knowing the FIT damper is not half bad to start with (not like the very basic «*motion control*» from RS).
> 
> ...


It is NOT a "must" to go all the way with a custom tuned damper. Nice? Definitely. But in no way is it a must.

There are plenty of average sized riders that off the shelf works satisfactorily for. Adding the ACS-3 alone makes a substantial improvement for most riders.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I read most of this thread but have to crash.
> 
> I have a 2018 Fit4 140mm Factory 36. How effective would it be simply dropping an ACS3 kit in it with no change of damper or custom tune? I should have had my **** together over the winter but as it stands now, I don't want to ship my fork away for the tune. Is it worth getting the ACS3 alone, with no accompanying tune?
> 
> ...


As the others have said, you don't really need the custom tune. You will find that your fork is now way more active so you'll probably need to adjust some things. I ran my LSC and HSC almost all the way out before I put the ACS3 in. I added about 6 clicks for both and I slowed down the rebound a few clicks as well.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

You guys are awesome. THE BEST. Thank you for the lightning quick input. 

So, my current plan is to get the ACS3 kit and use the stock FIT4 damper. The only other issue that I will have to decide now is whether to up the travel from 140 to 150. 

This all started with wanting to replace my DPX2 with the 11-6 (which is finally coming out for my bike). I am assuming that getting the 11-6 may be a little half-assed without hitting the fork at the same time. Correct?

Sorry guys. I am WAY behind the curve on the whole PUSH thing, but moving quickly now...


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I am assuming that getting the 11-6 may be a little half-assed without hitting the fork at the same time. Correct?


Not at all, you can keep your air shock or air fork, or upgrade later if you feel the need ... doesn't matter 

Also, did you consider the CCDB Coil IL for your shock?! What bike do you have if you don't mind me asking?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

digev said:


> Not at all, you can keep your air shock or air fork, or upgrade later if you feel the need ... doesn't matter
> 
> Also, did you consider the CCDB Coil IL for your shock?! What bike do you have if you don't mind me asking?


No, I have not yet considered the CCDB.

My FS trail bike is a 2018 Norco Sight C1 29er.









I just built this Honzo and am pretty sad I went with a 34 over a 36 now. I bet that bike would have rocked with an ACS3 in it. Dammit. As hard as I try, I seem to keep making all sorts of mistakes along the way.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

mtnbkrmike said:


> You guys are awesome. THE BEST. Thank you for the lightning quick input.
> 
> So, my current plan is to get the ACS3 kit and use the stock FIT4 damper. The only other issue that I will have to decide now is whether to up the travel from 140 to 150.
> 
> ...


- Upgrading to ACS3 will make for a tremendous improvement in fork performance. No need to touch the damper at this point. You can decide on that later.

- 11.6 is also fantastic. If you have the means, I highly recommend buying both. The performance gain from upgrading both is significant and they compliment each other quite nicely. If you do one without the other, I predict you'll notice the imbalance and will eventually just upgrade anyway


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> - Upgrading to ACS3 will make for a tremendous improvement in fork performance. No need to touch the damper at this point. You can decide on that later.
> 
> - 11.6 is also fantastic. If you have the means, I highly recommend buying both. The performance gain from upgrading both is significant and they compliment each other quite nicely. If you do one without the other, I predict you'll notice the imbalance and will eventually just upgrade anyway


Life is short. My bikes are Priority 1. I can gather the funds for both the shock and the fork.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Life is short. My bikes are Priority 1. I can gather the funds for both the shock and the fork.


My kind of guy !


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> My kind of guy !


What's MUCH more important is that I don't want to be out of pocket by having to send my fork away at this point of the season. So dropping in an ACS3 and bolting on an 11-6 would work.

The only thing left...I need to get past feeling pretty squeamish about the ACS3 being irreversible.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

I've been running a CaneCreek DB Coil inline with a 36 RC2 for nearly 2 years and the combo was really good! So air + coil, no probs!

Now 34 vs 36, yep that does matter heyhey 

Don't worry mistakes are part of the process and that's how you learn 

I tell you what, instead of upgrading the 34 (because the chassis might not be enough for what you are looking for). If I were you, I would sell it and go for a Yari with ACS3 + custom tuned damper! Just an idea/example ....

Have a look at my post from 2 days ago 

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/super-yari-1069974.html


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

mtnbkrmike said:


> What's MUCH more important is that I don't want to be out of pocket by having to send my fork away at this point of the season. So dropping in an ACS3 and bolting on an 11-6 would work.
> 
> The only thing left...I need to get past feeling pretty squeamish about the ACS3 being irreversible.


Put that concern aside. The ACS3 coil kit is so far superior to the stock air spring that I couldn't possibly imagine wanting to revert. I say this from personal experience, in addition to having numerous friend make the change and feeling the same way (in addition to all the positive comments in this thread which I started two years ago)


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

As an aside, mistake or not, I consciously went with the 34 on the Honzo because I wanted the ability to go from 140 back to the factory 120 travel if I wanted to. Anyway, that's water under the bridge at this point. Sorry to have clouded the thread with that. 

Back on track...

185 out of the shower. I have been riding in the Rockies outside Calgary - West Bragg, Moose, Kananaskis, Canmore, etc, for about 25 years. Is the only issue left spring choice? Any recommendations on that, or is it matter of simply leaving this to Suspensionwerx (Push's Canadian dealer who I will be going through)? 

I need a sleep or two to get my head around the irreversible part. Anyone else nervous about that before taking the plunge?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I need a sleep or two to get my head around the irreversible part. Anyone else nervous about that before taking the plunge?


I kind of was, that's why I bought a cheap Yari RC for the chassis (same as Lyric) and did my experience. Now I've just been riding it for a few weeks ... but I already know that I won't go back to my 36 and will eventually sell it pretty soon. That's how good this kit is 

Now you know )


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

digev said:


> I kind of was, that's why I bought a cheap Yari RC for the chassis (same as Lyric) and did my experience. Now I've just been riding it for a few weeks ... but I already know that I won't go back to my 36 and will eventually sell it pretty soon. That's how good this kit is
> 
> Now you know )


Thanks for the reassurance.

As another aside, right or wrong, I am done with anything RockShox. In this lifetime and the next.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Thanks for the reassurance.
> 
> As another aside, right or wrong, I am done with anything RockShox. In this lifetime and the next.


Oh and I used a Boxxer with a spring for over 2 seasons and upgraded to an air spring ... no problems, it's not leaking and works well.

As for RS forks, I've been using 36s for the past 10y or so ... And for good reasons  I'm not telling you to switch ... just keep the chassis and the rebound and throw away everything inside ... it's just a more viable solution than re-buying a brand new fork in my opinion ... but now at least you know about other options! Good luck with your project ... if you pull the trigger on the ACS3 you won't be disappointed!

Yari/Lyric chassis (stock Dual Flow rebound) + Push ACS3 + NovyParts SPLUG custom tuned! Sooooo in love hahahaha


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## chestont (Aug 4, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> You guys are awesome. THE BEST. Thank you for the lightning quick input.
> 
> So, my current plan is to get the ACS3 kit and use the stock FIT4 damper. The only other issue that I will have to decide now is whether to up the travel from 140 to 150.
> 
> ...


I installed an ACS3 kit onto a 2017 Fox 36 with the FIT4 damper earlier this month and I have absolutely no regrets. It has made a huge difference in small to medium sized bumps. But it is surprisingly supportive and poppy.

I run a Cane Creek DB inline coil in the rear and the fork and shock feel much more balanced now in suppleness with the kit. I can only imagine an 11-6 shock would benefit even more from feeling more balanced in suppleness.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I am assuming that getting the 11-6 may be a little half-assed without hitting the fork at the same time. Correct?


I think it's likely that whichever one you get first, you'll notice the other end not keeping up.

I got the ELEVENSIX first, and it took maybe a couple weeks for me, once I got past the "holy **** this is so awesome" stage, to start pushing my limits until I noticed the fork was a weak point. This was about a month before the official announcement of the ACS-3. I got a custom-tuned Fox 36 170mm RC2 with ACS-3 direct from PUSH as soon as they became available. It turned out merely to be every bit as awesome as the ELEVENSIX.

I agree with the others. Don't worry about going back to air. You're not gonna want to.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

On my fork I went with an avy cartridge and still kept messing with settings as the air side degraded. I was servicing the air spring every month almost to keep it greased up but not too much. Put the push coil in and haven't had to touch my damper after initial set up with the coil.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

I will agree with tbmaddux. My Fox 36 always felt more harsh than my DPX2 in the back. After doing the ACS3 kit, my back feels more harsh and now I really want a coil shock. Darren told me my bike wasn't progressive enough (Ibis HD4) and he wouldn't sell me an 11.6. I am seriously contemplating trying a MRP Hazzard with their progressive spring. Still not as progressive as an air shock from what I understand so I am hesitant. I don't feel like I have much I can give up in the big hit area.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Bad news.

I got an email from Dylan at Push late today saying sorry, no 11-6 for my bike. I had chatted electronically with Darren yesterday who believed that they were good to go with one, but wasn't 100% certain we were talking about the same bike. I immediately contacted Suspensionwerx in VCR. I may have misunderstood things but I thought that they confirmed availability (they did ask me to send an email with the details, which I did, and have not heard back, which I guess spells trouble). Optimistically, I proceeded to properly celebrate the great news last evening over some fine craft beers. 

I have since asked for clarification from both Push and Suspensionwerx but nothing has been forthcoming as of yet.

Could be yet another dream straight down the shitter.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

The only Norco that PUSH lists for the ELEVENSIX is an older model Range.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

tbmaddux said:


> The only Norco that PUSH lists for the ELEVENSIX is an older model Range.


I know. As I mentioned above, I had chatted with Darren and Suspensionwerx 2 days ago who both appeared to confirm that they had just finished testing and development for the Sight, despite what the website lists.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

rynomx785 said:


> Darren told me my bike wasn't progressive enough (Ibis HD4) and he wouldn't sell me an 11.6. I am seriously contemplating trying a MRP Hazzard with their progressive spring. Still not as progressive as an air shock from what I understand so I am hesitant. I don't feel like I have much I can give up in the big hit area.


I don't want to go off track here, but these could help you.

1) - linear bikes running a coil are more often than not giving great results (Had a DHX2 on my SB6 and CCDB Coil IL on my SB5.5 ... and those bikes are very linear ... just saying)
2) - this thread might give you more info (apparently side load is more of an issue rather than the linear aspect of the suspension)
https://forums.mtbr.com/ibis/coil-shock-fitment-hd4-can-someone-explain-1095341.html

Hope this will help you to clarify


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

digev said:


> I don't want to go off track here, but these could help you.
> 
> 1) - linear bikes running a coil are more often than not giving great results (Had a DHX2 on my SB6 and CCDB Coil IL on my SB5.5 ... and those bikes are very linear ... just saying)
> 2) - this thread might give you more info (apparently side load is more of an issue rather than the linear aspect of the suspension)
> ...


I have been getting mixed feedback on whether the HD4 is progressive enough or not and I have had a few people tell me that the HD4 is more progressive than the Yetis are and Push obviously offers 11.6s for Yetis.

I am actually the one that started the that thread. LOL I talked to MRP and DVO both about the clevis design being hard on shocks and they both said that their coil shocks were strong enough to handle it. DVO even told me that one of their employees was currently testing a coil on his personal HD4.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Well if you started it, you know better then ... heyhey ... 

The best way for you to know is to test


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

digev said:


> Well if you started it, you know better then ... heyhey ...
> 
> The best way for you to know is to test


DVO just told me that they have a new shock coming out in the next couple months and they had it on display at Sea Otter. Get this.... display bike was a HD4. LOL I will let them do the testing for me.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

rynomx785 said:


> DVO just told me that they have a new shock coming out in the next couple months and they had it on display at Sea Otter. Get this.... display bike was an HD4. LOL I will let them do the testing for me.


If that isn't a perfect timing  good luck with it! Going full coil ... whoop whoop hahaha!


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

digev said:


> If that isn't a perfect timing  good luck with it! Going full coil ... whoop whoop hahaha!


RIGHT??? LOL Thanks man.


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## masterpeezy (Jun 29, 2017)

Hello,

For grip2 damper do I need to add 40cc of 10WT maxima fluid? Push video said 20cc on each side. Thank you!


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

First full day in the mountains since I've got the ACS3 fitted .... WHAT A Pleasure! Going up or down, the ride quality is outstanding ... very surprised because it does improve the ride characteristics going up technical sections A LOT! smooth out everything in it's path ...

When climbing, because of the bike angle and the center of gravity moving to the rear (and you want to apply pressure on the rear tire to keep traction) the front/fork is eventually lighter and more prone to get deflected or bounce a little bit more on rocks/roots. Not anymore, it really helps out a lot ... you can keep powering on without having to control the front (not as much than without the coil). It makes a more calm, precise ... enjoyable?! LOL ... ride uphill!

On flat techy terrains you feel the ondulations but not the spikes, very pleasant too.

On the downs ... well, I don't think I'll add anything new to this thread 

It's just mega super good, tons of grip ... plush BUT doesn't eat all the travel quickly, definitely good on mid-stroke support and still very poppy ... it seems to tick all the boxes needed to go fast in a reassuring manner but you can still be playful if needed!

All in all, very very happy with the end result and my previous 36 RC2 custom tuned + Luftkape (go-to-fork for years), will gather dust for a few months before it gets sold eventually!

If you ride technical terrains (up or/and down) and are wondering if you should get the ACS3? I'd say if you have the money it's a no brainer.

SETUP:

- Weight ready to ride: 80kg

- Fork: Yari RC (Chassis)
- Spring: Push ACS3 (160mm)
- Spring Air chamber: 40psi
- Spring rate: Blue 
- Damper: NovyParts SPLUG (custom tuned)
- Seals: Racingbros Modi low friction
- 180ml of Maxima Plush 10WT (damper side) / (instead of the 5WT)
- 10ml of Maxima Plush 10WT in the lowers (instead of the 0w-30)
- RSP Ultra-Slick Grease to lube the seals

- Shock: CCDB Coil IL + SLS (400lbs)

- Bike: Yeti SB5.5


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

Anyone has comparisom with F36 Grip2 2020? Wondering if upgrade is worth of immidiate change or first give a try to original damper?


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## fredmeister (Jan 25, 2018)

hey guys! I've got a question: I was planing to install a Push ACS3-Kit into the Fox36 Float RC2 '18 of my girlfriend. At the moment it has 180mm of travel but I have read that latest model Fox Forks are changed in travel by swapping out the airspring into the one with the desired travel. So I reckon if I installed the ACS3-Kit into the fork it should just work out and the result should be a 170mm fork? Thanks for your help!


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Placek said:


> first give a try to original damper?


The ACS-3 is a spring change, not a damper change.

In case you're talking about getting a custom tune with your ACS-3, PUSH speaks pretty highly of the GRIP2 damper specifically and generally w.r.t. modern dampers.

Myself, I've got a custom-tuned damper from PUSH along with the ACS-3 spring in my current Nomad's fork and I'm never going back to OEM (fork or shock). It's just so damn good...


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

tbmaddux said:


> Myself, I've got a custom-tuned ACS-3 in my current Nomad's fork and I'm never going back to OEM (fork or shock). It's just so damn good...


How is your coil system custom tuned?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

> hey guys! I've got a question: I was planing to install a Push ACS3-Kit into the Fox36 Float RC2 '18 of my girlfriend. At the moment it has 180mm of travel but I have read that latest model Fox Forks are changed in travel by swapping out the airspring into the one with the desired travel. So I reckon if I installed the ACS3-Kit into the fork it should just work out and the result should be a 170mm fork? Thanks for your help!


The 170mm ACS3 kit comes with everything to adapt the fork to 170mm of travel.

Darren


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

rondre3000 said:


> How is your coil system custom tuned?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I guess he meant to say, ACS3 spring + «*custom tuned*» damper


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## rondre3000 (May 29, 2009)

Thought so too, but didn't want to assume.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Placek (Jun 9, 2009)

tbmaddux said:


> The ACS-3 is a spring change, not a damper change.
> 
> In case you're talking about getting a custom tune with your ACS-3, PUSH speaks pretty highly of the GRIP2 damper specifically and generally w.r.t. modern dampers.
> 
> Myself, I've got a custom-tuned ACS-3 in my current Nomad's fork and I'm never going back to OEM (fork or shock). It's just so damn good...


Perfect.
You're right the spring.
I've red a lot on how awesome this swap is but what are the real improvements to newest FOX products.
Suppose some of You scratched their had on how is that possible that newest FOX product straight from the factory have ready improvement solutions but from 3rd party.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Placek said:


> Perfect.
> You're right the spring.
> I've red a lot on how awesome this swap is but what are the real improvements to newest FOX products.
> Suppose some of You scratched their had on how is that possible that newest FOX product straight from the factory have ready improvement solutions but from 3rd party.


I guess you're still asking if you should upgrade your future 36 with Grip2 damper?! As someone suggested before, you should ride that fork first! It's very good straight out of the box so unless you want to spend more money or have a specific issue with the fork ... I would not! Now it's even better with the ACS3 if you have the right playground ...

You are the only one to know if you need it or not!


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

digev said:


> I guess he meant to say, ACS3 spring + «*custom tuned*» damper


Yes, sorry for the confusion. I'm editing the original post. My fork is a Fox 36 170mm with ACS-3 and PUSH-tuned damper (RC2, it predates the GRIP2 and I didn't want the FIT4), bought direct from PUSH. Replaced the stock 160mm Pike on my 2015 Nomad (v3).



Placek said:


> what are the real improvements to newest FOX products.


I haven't done an A/B comparison on the damper side, so it's possible I wouldn't be able to detect the effect of the custom tuning to my weight and riding style. As for the coil upgrade, it's something I did first on the back of my bike (ELEVENSIX) and I moved to the front upgrade as soon as it was available, because I could feel the stock fork not keeping up. I haven't done an A/B comparison on that side either (same fork before and after ACS-3).


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Anyone want to trade an orange spring for a blue spring on a Fox 36 160 mm travel.
Or I'll sell the blue spring for $50. PM if you do.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

blcman said:


> Anyone want to trade an orange spring for a blue spring on a Fox 36 160 mm travel.
> Or I'll sell the blue spring for $50. PM if you do.


We should get a spring buy/sell/trade thread going. I wonder how many self installers are going to try 2 springs? I'm running a grey but most likely want to try a black.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

WHALENARD said:


> We should get a spring buy/sell/trade thread going. I wonder how many self installers are going to try 2 springs? I'm running a grey but most likely want to try a black.


We should. Same with the Smashpot system also.

Seems like there may be more of them that need to change from that thread read! lol


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

DAMPER SIDE

Any idea how the GRIP2 compares to the CHARGER2+HC97 please?

With the ACS3 installed of course


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## dangerousmav (May 30, 2006)

@PUSH 
Can you please advise for a starting tuning of a 36 Grip2 cartridge with acs3 kit with black spring on a muscolar enduro bike? My weigh is 92kg geared.
Other question: which spring would you suggest for my weight to be used in a 26kg enduro ebike? Need also to custom valve the RC2 cartridge?
Thanx
Cheers
M.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Question:

Has anyone Fox 36 (within 12 month Fox warranty) with ACS3 successfully had a CSU replaced by Fox under warranty?


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

cakemonster said:


> Question:
> 
> Has anyone Fox 36 (within 12 month Fox warranty) with ACS3 successfully had a CSU replaced by Fox under warranty?


i have,but i did remove the coil and re-installed the stock air spring prior to shipping it to fox. and i removed the push sticker i had on my CSU.

oddly enough, the csu creak just started again for me. so i have had about 8-9months of quiet csu since the fox warranty repair


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

useport80 said:


> i have,but i did remove the coil and re-installed the stock air spring prior to shipping it to fox. and i removed the push sticker i had on my CSU.
> 
> oddly enough, the csu creak just started again for me. so i have had about 8-9months of quiet csu since the fox warranty repair


Frustrating.

Has anyone successfully sent it to FOX with the PUSH kit in place?

Curious if Fox would still do it.

.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

cakemonster said:


> Frustrating.
> 
> Has anyone successfully sent it to FOX with the PUSH kit in place?
> 
> ...


They should as the coil has no effect on the CSU creaking but I just about guarantee they would void the warranty. I know they said just threading the inside of the steerer tube for the One Up EDC tool would void the warranty.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

as others have already stated if you're experiencing any kind of little click noise upon compression check the shrink wrap on the spring. 

mine slipped up the spring and started making noise about after 2 months of use....repositioned and re-heated the wrap and noise is gone. easy fix.

seems this is happening to enough people that PUSH could use some better shrink wrap material or do a better job ensuring it doesn't move out of place.

not a huge deal but seems like an easy issue to resolve.


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## The Messiah (Apr 18, 2019)

dmar123 said:


> as others have already stated if you're experiencing any kind of little click noise upon compression check the shrink wrap on the spring.
> 
> mine slipped up the spring and started making noise about after 2 months of use....repositioned and re-heated the wrap and noise is gone. easy fix.
> 
> ...


Movement of the heat shrink happens on all coil sprung forks.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Anyone running the ACS on a 170 Lyrik with a Charger2.1 RC2 damper and care to share their settings?


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

The Messiah said:


> Movement of the heat shrink happens on all coil sprung forks.


Does it?...never had it happen on my boxxer. And that was after several years of DH use. The PUSH wrap slipped only after 2 months of use. The shrink wrap slid all the way to the top of the coil.

Not a huge deal but kinda annoying if it happens mid ride or during a road trip. Dont really have room for a heatgun in my toolbox :thumbsup:

With it being 2019 and all the fancy tech out there seems it could be preventable.


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## The Messiah (Apr 18, 2019)

dmar123 said:


> Does it?...never had it happen on my boxxer. And that was after several years of DH use. The PUSH wrap slipped only after 2 months of use. The shrink wrap slid all the way to the top of the coil.


Well in the thousands of coil sprung forks we see it happened on 99% of them so you must either not ride it very much or just be very lucky.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

The Messiah said:


> Well in the thousands of coil sprung forks we see it happened on 99% of them so you must either not ride it very much or just be very lucky.


Dang, didnt realize it was that common... well maybe PUSH can chime in and comment what is considered to be "normal" with their shrink wrap.

IMO every 2 months of riding and the shrink wrap coming loose doesn't seem like it should be normal. I do ride a lot and jump etc.

If it is considered normal guess I will just have to deal with it or maybe try some different shrink wrap material?

-thanks.


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## volcanized (Sep 23, 2008)

I'll begin with saying that my damper (2016 Fox 36 RC2) has been modified by Push, then again modified by a local suspension guy (who gave me what I actually want &#8230; different story) so my settings are definitely different than factory. I wanted as little HSC as possible and to rely on tokens in an effort to gain small bump sensitivity. Also, my bike is very long so I don't put as much weight on the front which means everything needs to be on the soft/sensitive side.

The background:
I've been medium happy with this fork but was looking for significantly better small bump sensitivity. I had several folks retune it which helped some but it just didn't feel like my buddies 2015 (I think) Fox 36. I'd tune all I can and his (from the factory) just blew mine away.

I was considering the 92SER piston and MRP Fulfill valve to help soften things up but I wanted to, if possible, have too much small bump sensitivity then dial it down with HSC. I was in search of cushy calm traction. All this ACS3 talk got me thinking. As long as it didn't hurt my climbing efficiency (not too bobby), I'm fine with the extra weight. A quick question to a fellow MTBR'er was all it took.

The first setup with Push ACS3:
I'm 200lb with all gear+water. This is green spring territory. The install was quick and I left my settings as is: HSC all out, LSC 4 in, Rebound somewhere in the middle. 20 psi in the ABS cause the middle of the range seems fair. Lower service too cause I'm not that dumb.

The first ride: 18 miles / 3500 ft climbed
Definitely the most supple first inch of travel I've ever felt. Comically soft and smooth. I seemed to ride much higher in the travel than ever before so I slowly removed LSC throughout the ride until I had it all out. When going DH, mid stroke was supportive. Maybe too much. In mid-travel the fork was super rough and I was getting bounced off line and this, of course, made me timid. I eventually removed all rebound. This helped but with all settings all out, it made me think. I could have too much spring. Or the damper oil may be too heavy.
The effect on climbing must be mentioned. Since the first inch of travel is so smooth, the front end stays in the pointed direction much better than my air setup. Pointing the bike was easier and hitting rocks was super smooth. I definitely understand how folks on here are saying that it improved their climbing. And ya, I didn't notice the extra weight.

The second setup:
Same as first but with a blue spring.

Quick second ride: Just a 30 min test
This definitely dropped my sag height a bit much. Adding one preload spacer put me where I felt comfortable. A bit more brake dive was noticeable but now I could dial up LSC to combat it. Still mid-stroke felt rough. Now you all have me thinking Grip2. Dammit.

The third setup:
Same as second but used 3wt oil in RC2 damper instead of previously used (and recommended) 5wt. Changed only oil per: 




The third ride: 19 miles / 3200 ft climbed
Did I win? I may have won. Plush and controlled. Why am I diving through so much travel? More LSC maybe. Blowing through travel on bigger hits. More HSC maybe. Fork feels 9/10. Still, I can't get over that this fork just feels crazy soft. Maybe the softer damper oil means I need the original heavier green spring.

The fourth setup:
Same as third but with the green spring and no preload spacers. HSC all out, LSC a few clicks in, rebound somewhere in the middle. 0 psi in ABS.

The fourth ride: 21 miles @ Gooseberry Mesa
I've never felt such plushness while having a controlled midstroke. The fork isn't divey but small bumps disappear, bump steer has been greatly reduced, and big hits are calmly soaked up. This fork sounds like marshmallows in a ziplock bag when rolling over rocks. It's addictingly awesome. I felt the bottom out on a 4' drop to flat so I set the ABS to 15 lbs. Never touched the last ½" of travel after this

Final setup (Recap):
Green spring and no preload spacers. HSC all out, LSC a few clicks in, rebound about 1/3 way in. 15 psi in ABS. 3wt damper oil in RC2 cartridge.
The front has insane grip on dirt, smoothes over small rocks, significantly reduced bump steer. Each ride with the final setup leaves me laughing and looking for new lines. No doubt I'm riding faster due to the added confidence. If I'm forced to think of a downside to the performance of the ACS3, (we know it's a tad heavier, but I'd pay that price any day for this performance) it's that the front it's a bit more glued to the ground. A manual is a touch tougher to perform perhaps due to the softness of the last inch of travel and the added weight I suppose. Then again, maybe it's just my setup and removing some rebound can change that. I'm still tweaking the knobs. This fork is performing 11/10 now. Then again, since I'm chasing the plush dragon, I may try to use 2wt or 2.5wt oil in the damper. We'll see.
I also like how my quest for plushness drove me to learn how to perform a seal/lower service. I'll be saving a bit of money there for sure.

Anyone wanna buy a blue spring? It's got only a 30-minute test and a 19-mile ride. I'm in San Diego.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Very thorough and cool review! You definitely approached it the right way, back-to-back testing and no giving up until you reach what you were looking for, well done 

Backing off the compression to rely more on the spring is definitely in line with what most of us are doing to get maximum amount of plushness!

Thank you very much for sharing your tests and conclusion.

PS: I've got a Charger2 + HC97 ready to be dropped in my fork and I'm very eager to see if the full Push solution will once and for all be the unicorn I've been chasing, for a long time now! At the moment the ACS3 + NovyParts Splug is really good but a bit on the soft side when the going gets rough. Fingers crossed and I'll make sure to do a post like yours to feed back some info to the community after testing it!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

volcanized said:


> I'll begin with saying that my damper (2016 Fox 36 RC2) has been modified by Push, then again modified by a local suspension guy (who gave me what I actually want &#8230; different story) so my settings are definitely different than factory. I wanted as little HSC as possible and to rely on tokens in an effort to gain small bump sensitivity. Also, my bike is very long so I don't put as much weight on the front which means everything needs to be on the soft/sensitive side.
> 
> The background:
> I've been medium happy with this fork but was looking for significantly better small bump sensitivity. I had several folks retune it which helped some but it just didn't feel like my buddies 2015 (I think) Fox 36. I'd tune all I can and his (from the factory) just blew mine away.
> ...


How much are you looking to get for the blue spring?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

rynomx785 said:


> I know they said just threading the inside of the steerer tube for the One Up EDC tool would void the warranty.


that's the stupidest reason to void the warranty! you can cut your steerer tube but can't thread it! WTF?!? FOX is unbelievable!


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## adam_aquino (Oct 17, 2017)

rockman said:


> Anyone running the ACS on a 170 Lyrik with a Charger2.1 RC2 damper and care to share their settings?


I just added the ACS3 kit to my Lyrik 170 that came on my 18 Nomad. I'll be running some trails this weekend. I'll report back on damper settings.


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## seann137 (Aug 23, 2012)

I’m 155 without gear on 160 yari. Looking to swap a mint blue spring for an orange. If no takers I’ll probably just run over to push and buy one. They do have a store front right?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

After installing the HC97, I re-installed the ACS3 kit and the coil is now rubbing inside!

It's not noisy but I can feel it in my hands through the handlebars when I push the fork down.

The shrink wrap moved a bit so I re-centered it and applied a good amount of grease (RSP SlickKick) on it, now it's slightly better but it's still rubbing!

When I installed it the very first time it was all good, no rubbing whatsoever! Anyone knows what's going on?!

Will wrap the entire spring solve this issue?! What grease should I use?! Some talk about a thicker grease ... but wich one?

Marzoccchi springs are entirely wrapped, any cons in doing that?!

https://j-techsuspension.co.uk/products/marzocchi-spring-shrink-wrap


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

digev said:


> After installing the HC97, I re-installed the ACS3 kit and the coil is now rubbing inside!
> 
> It's not noisy but I can feel it in my hands through the handlebars when I push the fork down.
> 
> ...


Do not wrap the entire spring! It will reduce the travel and cause problems. What color spring do you have in your fork?

Darren


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

PUSHIND said:


> Do not wrap the entire spring! It will reduce the travel and cause problems. What color spring do you have in your fork?
> 
> Darren


Hi Darren,

It's the blue spring.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

digev said:


> Hi Darren,
> 
> It's the blue spring.


Strange. I would just take the spring out, flip it upside down and put it back in to see if that settles it. Most likely riding it would cause it to settle into the spring perches as well.

Darren


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

OK! I'll try to put it upside down and ride it tomorrow.

As usual, thanks for the swift replies


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Update!

After putting the coil upside down and re-greasing it, the «rubbing» was massively decreased. I’d say about 70% compared to before.

Then I rode the fork for 8 hours in the mountains yesterday and today when I squeeze the fork I can’t feel a thing. The remaining rubbing / grinding is completely gone! When you push the fork down it’s impossible to detect if you have an air shaft or a coil!

I’d say if you remove the coil for whatever reason make sure to mark it or remember the position it was in. upside/down but also horizontally, that way it will slot back exactly where it was before ... (I guess there is a bedding-in process)

Also If you install it for the first time, try both ends to see if one has less rubbing than the other and be assured that after being ridden hard for a few hours ... this will completely disappear and it will become super smooth!


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## southpaw533 (Dec 28, 2005)

Shipping my 2017 Fox 36 RC2 out this week for the conversion and tuning. You guys sold me on it. Hoping for the same result, because last year at trestle bike park I wasn't impressed on the fork at all.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

southpaw533 said:


> Shipping my 2017 Fox 36 RC2 out this week for the conversion and tuning. You guys sold me on it. Hoping for the same result, because last year at trestle bike park I wasn't impressed on the fork at all.


You are going to like it 

What kind of tuning if you don't mind me asking?


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## southpaw533 (Dec 28, 2005)

Just having Push tune the damper to better match my weight, riding, and the spring conversion.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Nice one ... perfect!


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## Dex78 (Jun 7, 2019)

Are there any recommended starting settings for a blue spring with the GRIP2 damper?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Dex78 said:


> Are there any recommended starting settings for a blue spring with the GRIP2 damper?


Depending on the travel you'll get what you are looking for on this page! You'll just miss the HSR (High Speed Rebound) because you have the GRIP2 ... but HSC/LSC/LSR settings (from closed) can be found.

https://www.pushindustries.com/pages/acs3-support

Example for a 160mm


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## Dex78 (Jun 7, 2019)

Thanks, I had seen that but it looks to be for the RC2 with a single rebound setting. Any recommendations for high and low speed rebound and would the high/low speed compression be the same?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Dex78 said:


> Thanks, I had seen that but it looks to be for the RC2 with a single rebound setting. Any recommendations for high and low speed rebound and would the high/low speed compression be the same?


Then you get 3 out of the 4 settings already 

Depending on your terrain and what you like the HSR can be anywhere, there's no right or wrong BUT to give you a pointer ... you want it as fast as possible without compromising stability at high speed (no bouncing or deflecting)! In short, open it completely and close 2/3 clicks ... then ride ... if you feel it's too fast (the fork will feel too nervous) close another 2 clicks ... and so on until you find it's responding quick enough to repetitive impacts but it's composed. Make sense?!


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## Dex78 (Jun 7, 2019)

digev said:


> Then you get 3 out of the 4 settings already
> 
> Depending on your terrain and what you like the HSR can be anywhere, there's no right or wrong BUT to give you a pointer ... you want it as fast as possible without compromising stability at high speed (no bouncing or deflecting)! In short, open it completely and close 2/3 clicks ... then ride ... if you feel it's too fast (the fork will feel too nervous) close another 2 clicks ... and so on until you find it's responding quick enough to repetitive impacts but it's composed. Make sense?!


Yeah that makes sense, thanks!


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## RyeThomas (Oct 7, 2018)

Well I ordered mine just now.
I liked my 2018 Pike and had it pretty well dialed in but at only 2x hours I started getting the negative pressure situation and loss of travel during rides.
I pulled it apart, cleaned out the transfer port, serviced the lowers, no help.
New Debonair spring is installed and it still doesn’t seem right, I don’t want to worry about my suspension or have to stop during rides and pull my front wheel down.
And yes I cycled my suspension while airing up/ made sure the shock was extended, wasted far too much time messing with a low hour well cared for Fork.

I’m punting, Push time.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Whatever the reason, it ain’t a bad choice


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

I have a Grey spring for the Lyrik/Yari I don't need. PM if anyone wants it, $40


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## RyeThomas (Oct 7, 2018)

Just put a 14.5 mile run on my Jeffsy with a new Push ACS-3 Kit in the fork.

Where I ride 90% of the time is an absolute mix of rocky, root filled descents, 2-5’ jumps and drops, steep inclines, rock gardens both up and down. Really a solid mixed bag of everything. Very tough on a set up because it needs it all.

The good/ great
1-It increased my travel, immediately went to full extension when transferring weight to the rear or after successive hits. Pike always sat at the 10mm sag line and worse after successive hits.
2- weird because I thought being higher in travel might be worse but it ate it up climbing. I picked a line and rather than having to bounce the front up and pop the back behind me (if that makes sense) I stayed in the saddle power down and pedaled on the line. The front just stayed planted yet climbed everything. I climbed more stuff today with ease, really thought this might be an issue.
3- small/ medium/ large hits I found myself leaning more over the front than ever before because the back was a little bouncy trying to keep up but the front was smooth and planted. The front just went over it.
4- really fast and no problems in the turns or while breaking and still poppy to get air anywhere. I was concerned I’d loose some pop and have some diving in the turns.



The negative/indifferent 
1-When transitioning hard (manual) to the rear of the bike, I can hear and feel the front shock and spring fully extend and thud. It had me worried about weight transfer or jarring to the front while in the air but I don’t think it made a difference, I need more time. Seemed more like something I’d need to get used to than anything.
2- with a fork like the Pike with little to NO LSC adjustments the shock when riding on flat ground (low speed) and hitting a big root or rock makes the front suspension dive into its travel (that’s the benefit of a coil) but can be a problem as an air shock would bounce over, here your trying not to go OTB. I blame this more obviously on the lack of LSC, the coil is being supple as it should. That said I’m going to have to relearn after 20 years of riding how to get my weight back with a coil on the flat stuff a bit more. Lol


So while I didn’t mind my Debonair air spring (when it worked), I hated the lack of travel/negative pressure suck down, worrying about my shock. Constantly having to check and look at the travel, pedal strikes from it and constant worries and ruined rides.

It’s not cheap but I believe the Push ATS3 is well worth the upgrade and I’d do it again.


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## RyeThomas (Oct 7, 2018)

The spring I got was the black, it's absolutely perfect for my ride. It only bottomed out on the big stuffand when it did I had 15 psi I. The spring and it was perfect. It bottomed but it wasn't harsh.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Nice one! I got surprised by the climbing boost too ... so stable. You just focus on how it’s going to behave going down but realize you can smile (make it a lot easier on techy terrains) going up too! win-win!

Glad it worked out great in the end!


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## southpaw533 (Dec 28, 2005)

Anyone have a Fox 36 black spring they would like to sell?


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## masterpeezy (Jun 29, 2017)

I have a yellow spring that I have only used once. PM me if interested. Thanks!


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## oldsklrdr (May 15, 2012)

PUSHIND said:


> Do not wrap the entire spring! It will reduce the travel and cause problems. What color spring do you have in your fork?
> 
> Darren


Has anyone looked into using a full length PTFE sleeve or alternative material for the whole length of the spring? Not necessarily heat shrunk to the spring itself... should prevent scoring on inside of the stanchion which would be nice if you wanted to convert back to air spring (i know, who would do that!) granted there would be some weight penalty...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Anyone have any ideas what is making this sound? Headset has no play, not a cable rattle.






Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## bigb73 (Oct 11, 2007)

Installed the ACS-3 last week on my Lyrik and have been out a couple of times. The issues I had with the Air spring were few but wow!! This feels like a brand new fork. No more 170mm at the start of the ride and 165mm near the end. I have the green spring with 1 preload washer. My local trails are smooth and fast and without any drops but a few good jumps. Tomorrow I will have the HC97 Damper. My fork doesn't look right without it.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Anyone have any ideas what is making this sound? Headset has no play, not a cable rattle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's hard to tell but with any clunk or tapping noise in the ASC3 during compression, I always check out the spring's shrink wrap (make sure it hasn't moved all the way down or all the way up) or the bump stop (to make sure that the negative spring still works).


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Anybody go from a grey spring to a black spring on a fox 36/160? How much psi did you end up running and how many sag washers?
Thanks


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Quick (and probably stupid) question: if I already have the ACS3 installed and want to go from 150 to 160 fork, I only have to change the spring right?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

lagerboy said:


> Quick (and probably stupid) question: if I already have the ACS3 installed and want to go from 150 to 160 fork, I only have to change the spring right?


Unfortunately no! You have to re-buy some parts ... ask Push they'll tell you which one(s).


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## rock-rod (Sep 3, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Anyone have any ideas what is making this sound? Headset has no play, not a cable rattle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does the noise happen on compression or extension? I just started getting a top out click on my fox 36.


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Hoping Darren answers this one, is there any intention for Push to offer the ACS-3 in 180mm travel???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## dlocki (Mar 30, 2017)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Anyone have any ideas what is making this sound? Headset has no play, not a cable rattle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like the dreaded csu creak to me - if you put you wheel between your legs and twist the bars does it do it or stand the bike up and bounce it on the back wheels?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

dlocki said:


> Sounds like the dreaded csu creak to me - if you put you wheel between your legs and twist the bars does it do it or stand the bike up and bounce it on the back wheels?


I'll try that. I did deflate, compress, and then reinflate the air bump and it helped. If it is CSU how likely is it that they'll honor the warranty with the coil and an EDC tool having been installed. I understand that functionally neither has anything to do with it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

lagerboy said:


> Quick (and probably stupid) question: if I already have the ACS3 installed and want to go from 150 to 160 fork, I only have to change the spring right?


I believe you have to change the lower rod assembly. This is what determines the travel. Travel and model are etched on the lower portion of the rod. I believe the springs are all the same length.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

Only complaint after 3 months of riding is the stupid shrink wrap coming loose and sliding up the coil which results in a clank sound. 

Had the spring for apx. 3 months and it happened twice already. Kind of annoying because you have to remove and clean all the grease off the spring an inside the shrink wrap and then redo/re-heat everything. Especially annoying if it happens in the middle of a road trip. 

The original shrink wrap on my fork finally bit the dust and cracked on me after trying to reapply it to the coil. It got too small after re-heating it a couple times and wouldn't slide back on the fork so it cracked as I tried to stretch it. 

Hunted down a new piece of shrink wrap which turned out to be a major PITA(if you want to buy it locally right away.) Couldn't find any heat shrink tubing over 1"...dont even bother trying Home Depot, Harbor Freight, auto stores etc. cause they wont have it. Turns out its a bit of a specialty item and stores only carry the smaller stuff.

The only place that i could find(which was recommended after calling a local suspension tuning shop) that has 1.5" and 2" diameter clear shrink tubing was a NAPA distribution/warehouse center with a store front. Guessing most major cities will have it if you want to go pick it up right away verses ordering online. 

the part #'s are... 

727669 - 1 1/2(dia) clear 9in(length) -$3.29
727670 - 2(dia) clear 9in(lenght) -$6.49

pretty sure the 1.5 is big enough to slide over the coil but got the 2inch just in case. Can chop the pieces in half to get 2 shrink wraps. 

IMO PUSH should ship the coil kits with an extra piece of shrink wrap or two, or find a way to eliminate the shrink wrap from migrating up the coil. Maybe an adhesive lined piece of shrink wrap would do the trick.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

dmar123 said:


> Only complaint after 3 months of riding is the stupid shrink wrap coming loose and sliding up the coil which results in a clank sound.
> 
> Had the spring for apx. 3 months and it happened twice already. Kind of annoying because you have to remove and clean all the grease off the spring an inside the shrink wrap and then redo/re-heat everything. Especially annoying if it happens in the middle of a road trip.
> 
> ...


I believe earlier in the thread Darren suggested putting a drop of super glue on the shrink wrap. I heated mine up with a heat gun after it slipped down the first time and it has stayed put since. I just did another service a few weeks ago and it was still pretty much centered.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

CUP-TON said:


> I believe earlier in the thread Darren suggested putting a drop of super glue on the shrink wrap. I heated mine up with a heat gun after it slipped down the first time and it has stayed put since. I just did another service a few weeks ago and it was still pretty much centered.


Yep put super glue on the second time. Didn't work. Problem is super glue gets brittle. I think if they made an adhesive lined wrap it would do the trick.

Since I had to buy a new piece of tube wrap thought posting some info here about where to find some would be helpful.

Just put the new wrap on this afternoon... the 1 1/2 inch diameter wrap is the one you want. The 2 inch will be a little too big but will probably still work.

NAPA part #
727669 - 1 1/2(dia) clear 9in(length) -$3.29

I sprayed a little 3M supper 77 on it this time before heating...hopefully it holds better.


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## bike_futurist (Nov 12, 2018)

quite basic question but isnt lower leg service with acs3 installed as simple as unscrewind the leg bolts and taking the lowers off, doing the service and putting them back on?


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## fedfox (Aug 22, 2017)

To very one on the fence on getting the ACS3 just do it. I converted my 2018 Lyric with the ACS3 and HC97 and the fork is now simply amazing, i was never 100% happy with the small bump sensitivity of it and now it is just phenomenal. I was stunt that it also makes climbing easier, over all super impress that i dont think i will be going back to air. The little extra weight of the coli is not noticeable. I have about 60 mile of trail/enduro and 2 bike park days and it as perform admirably in all scenarios. I am about 200 pounds gear up and decided on the green spring on advice from push and is been perfect.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

*Clicking sound*

Looking for some ideas about what's causing a clicking sound in my ASC3 Fox 36.

The fork makes a pronounced "clicking" when compressed. The click occurs even before the fork is able to rebound. The clicking is easy to produce in the shop and is very pronounced when riding (and the fork is moving). The sound isn't reproduced when the bike is turned over and the fork compressed (pressing on the wheel down toward floor).

I just had PUSH rebuild the ASC3 kit. First ride out was lame (click, click, clickty click, click). Tore it down and checked everything but it all looks great. Following the PUSH tutorial.

I don't know that the issue is related to the ASC3 kit but I've chased down everything else I can. It's not the cables, wheel, etc. It's from the fork and as near as I can tell from the spring side.

I did try greasing the spring on the second install. But it doesn't really sound like a "rattle," more like a very distinct clicking/clapping sound.

Pretty sure it's me, but can't figure it out so any help appreciated. Here's the video:


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

Structure said:


> Looking for some ideas about what's causing a clicking sound in my ASC3 Fox 36.
> 
> The fork makes a pronounced "clicking" when compressed. The click occurs even before the fork is able to rebound. The clicking is easy to produce in the shop and is very pronounced when riding (and the fork is moving). The sound isn't reproduced when the bike is turned over and the fork compressed (pressing on the wheel down toward floor).
> 
> ...


Bump stop issue. Call Push. They can rebuild it. To quiet it down temporarily, put a piece of foam at the very bottom of your coil spring (I cut up a small piece of old dishwashing foam pad). The bump stop will hit the foam first before the rebound rod.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

flipnidaho said:


> Bump stop issue. Call Push. They can rebuild it. To quiet it down temporarily, put a piece of foam at the very bottom of your coil spring (I cut up a small piece of old dishwashing foam pad). The bump stop will hit the foam first before the rebound rod.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk









foam temp fix. Also, new spring vs old spring on the right with a malfunctioning negative spring.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

flipnidaho said:


> View attachment 1267875
> foam temp fix. Also, new spring vs old spring on the right with a malfunctioning negative spring.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk









new bumpstop left. Old bumpstop right

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Thank you. That gives me some things to look at. Unfortunately, PUSH seems to be out for the day already. 

I'm surprised they didn't catch this in the rebuild process. That's sort of the point of paying them $60...

Anyway, love the kit, just need to get it dialed back in.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

Structure said:


> Thank you. That gives me some things to look at. Unfortunately, PUSH seems to be out for the day already.
> 
> I'm surprised they didn't catch this in the rebuild process. That's sort of the point of paying them $60...
> 
> Anyway, love the kit, just need to get it dialed back in.


Np. Push is supposed to come out with an ABS rebuild kit so you can do it at home.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Structure said:


> Looking for some ideas about what's causing a clicking sound in my ASC3 Fox 36.
> 
> The fork makes a pronounced "clicking" when compressed. The click occurs even before the fork is able to rebound. The clicking is easy to produce in the shop and is very pronounced when riding (and the fork is moving). The sound isn't reproduced when the bike is turned over and the fork compressed (pressing on the wheel down toward floor).
> 
> ...


That is the sound generally found in newer model FOX 36 forks when the adapter plate is missing from between the seal head and retaining ring on the lower plunger rod.



> Bump stop issue. Call Push. They can rebuild it. To quiet it down temporarily, put a piece of foam at the very bottom of your coil spring (I cut up a small piece of old dishwashing foam pad). The bump stop will hit the foam first before the rebound rod.


Definitely NOT the bump stop as the sound is happening in an area of travel no where near engaging it.

Darren


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Do'ho. My bad. Yes, that's it. Not sure where the adapter plate went to during the process, but I'll find and install it.

Thank you! That's fast customer service and on point.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Structure said:


> Do'ho. My bad. Yes, that's it. Not sure where the adapter plate went to during the process, but I'll find and install it.
> 
> Thank you! That's fast customer service and on point.


No worries....if that's the issue and you don't come across it we have plenty in stock and can easily get one coming your way.

Darren


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

flipnidaho said:


> View attachment 1267877
> new bumpstop left. Old bumpstop right
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which one has negative chamber issues? The sucked down one or the extended one?


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> Which one has negative chamber issues? The sucked down one or the extended one?


The extended. You should be able to pull on the bump stop if it's working correctly. If the bump stop tops out then the negative pressure has escaped.

This is a problem that was solved long ago and really shouldn't be a concern any longer. The static seal that we initially used had too little squeeze for how low pressure the system is. We changed to a higher level squeeze seal and haven't had any issues since. That change happened last year.

Darren


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

PUSHIND said:


> The extended. You should be able to pull on the bump stop if it's working correctly. If the bump stop tops out then the negative pressure has escaped.
> 
> This is a problem that was solved long ago and really shouldn't be a concern any longer. The static seal that we initially used had too little squeeze for how low pressure the system is. We changed to a higher level squeeze seal and haven't had any issues since. That change happened last year.
> 
> Darren


Cool beans, thanks for the clarification.

After dropping down 1 spring weight I'm pretty stoked on this kit in a 36. I think maybe the performance gets understated a bit. IMO for aggressive riding the control, traction, speed, and resulting fun factor is fairly drastic.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

For sale: Lightly used ACS3 for a Fox 36 160mm, blue spring. Send a PM if interested.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

PUSHIND said:


> The extended. You should be able to pull on the bump stop if it's working correctly. If the bump stop tops out then the negative pressure has escaped.


Well shucks. I just serviced my fork on Saturday, and examination included the bump stop. There's no doubt that the bump stop extends all the way. Is this a problem? Is there a way for me to correct it? The ACS3 was new in February 2018.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

RustyIron said:


> Well shucks. I just serviced my fork on Saturday, and examination included the bump stop. There's no doubt that the bump stop extends all the way. Is this a problem? Is there a way for me to correct it? The ACS3 was new in February 2018.


The bump stop should be able to extend all of the way, but you should have to pull on it it to do so with 20psi in the chamber.

If you compress your bump stop by hand and when you let it go it extends to an abrupt stop with an audible "click" then you need to reset the negative pressure. If it extends to a soft stop and you can then pull and extend it further by hand, then you're all good to go.

Darren


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Posted this in the smashpot thread, but might be worth having in here too.

Is it possible to swap the damper and spring around on a pike/lyrik, thus protecting the inside of the airspring stanchion with the coil on the right hand side?

Seems like they are identical other than the dimple in the left hand side?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Honestly (even if I find the idea pretty clever) after installing the ACS3 on multiple forks (and for testing purposes, re-swapped to an air spring on one of them) and after converting 2 Boxxer RC (Coil) to Boxxer World Cup (air) I’ve never had any problems with internally scratched stanchions. Other riders I know have converted from air to coil then back to air again and no one ever reported having problems. It might just be luck I don’t know ... but I just think it’s worth mentioning than more often than not, it’s just fine.

Still, I want to know if you can swap sides


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

Can we expect a PUSH fork anytime soon? ...you can take my money now.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

dmar123 said:


> Can we expect a PUSH fork anytime soon? ...you can take my money now.


ACS3 + HC97 = Full Push Fork

Apparently it's very expensive to make the chassis!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

digev said:


> ACS3 + HC97 = Full Push Fork
> 
> Apparently it's very expensive to make the chassis!


If I had to guess it's probably primarily not the making of the chassis, but the expense of supporting the chassis.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

tuckerjt07 said:


> If I had to guess it's probably primarily not the making of the chassis, but the expense of supporting the chassis.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Does RockShox not allow PUSH to sell complete forks using just their chassis? I do see FOX complete forks for sale on their website, but that is with a PUSH coil and Fox dampers.

Has anyone tried to buy just the Lyrik uppers and lowers and stuff it with PUSH internals...Guessing can save around $300 by doing this.

Just seems silly to buy a brand new fork and waste parts.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

dmar123 said:


> Does RockShox not allow PUSH to sell complete forks using just their chassis? I do see FOX complete forks for sale on their website, but that is with a PUSH coil and Fox dampers.
> 
> Has anyone tried to buy just the Lyrik uppers and lowers and stuff it with PUSH internals...Guessing can save around $300 by doing this.
> 
> Just seems silly to buy a brand new fork and waste parts.


you still need the dumper are some other small bits and pieces, considering it's easier to find deals on complete forks might actually not save you any money


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Hey Guys,

Where do you have your sag at with the coil conversion? I have mine at 13%. The bike’s front end is definitely taller. The small bump compliance is the same exact as my Pike Air fork but the mid support is great and I still have 35mm of travel left after doing drops (4’ which is the most I do). Just wondering wondering what sag you guys have to see if I need to get softer spring. Thanks!


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Also looking for yellow coil if anyone here is selling. I have 2018+ Pike RC 160. Thanks!


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Tjay said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Where do you have your sag at with the coil conversion? I have mine at 13%. The bike's front end is definitely taller. The small bump compliance is the same exact as my Pike Air fork but the mid support is great and I still have 35mm of travel left after doing drops (4' which is the most I do). Just wondering wondering what sag you guys have to see if I need to get softer spring. Thanks!


Don't gauge sag as your change for spring. If ride height is good and you're not bottoming, then the spring is likely ok. If in question, call PUSH and see what they have to say.

I rarely, if ever, bottom my ACS3 Pike. most rides, I have a good 20-30mm of travel left on the o-ring

Darren from PUSH talks about sag and bottom out in his VitalMTB Inside Line podcast part 2. It's worth a listen and he states not to worry about sag or the o-ring


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Same here, I still have 30/35mm of unused travel on a 160mm Lyric and very rarely go past that. It’s good to stay high in the travel and not use everything ... don’t focus too much on SAG ... if it feels good, that’s what matters most.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

If you have a 15x100mm axle PIKE and are looking for an amazing deal deal....while supplies last:

https://www.pushindustries.com/prod...or-2014-2017-non-boost-rock-shox-pike-rc-rct3

Darren


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## revver (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi,
Going to install ACS for my '18 Lyrik RC2, converting from 180mm to 170mm travel. I only can see the spring color charts for Fox 36 but not Lyrik, are they the same? My riding weight is around 68.5kg to 71kg, depending on the armour I wear and if I am carrying a hydration bag, should i go for the blue with minimum bump stop and preload spacer or stick to orange, riding at its upper limits? Lastly, any tables or baseline setting for an ACS coiled Lyrik 170 to start?
Thanks.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

So I see that Push only offers up to 250ish pounds with the heaviest spring. Opinions on how this would work for a 270ish pound rider? 160mm travel Lyrik. I dont plan to stay at 270 pounds mind you, but thats where Im currently sitting and thinking of picking up a push'd Lyrik.

Thanks in advance!


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## bodhizafa (May 27, 2006)

bike_futurist said:


> quite basic question but isnt lower leg service with acs3 installed as simple as unscrewind the leg bolts and taking the lowers off, doing the service and putting them back on?


I'm wondering this too. About time for me to do the lowers.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Yes it is. Straightforward and simple!


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

R_Pierce said:


> So I see that Push only offers up to 250ish pounds with the heaviest spring. Opinions on how this would work for a 270ish pound rider? 160mm travel Lyrik. I dont plan to stay at 270 pounds mind you, but thats where Im currently sitting and thinking of picking up a push'd Lyrik.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You should be fine with the heaviest spring. You can also add a bit more LSC/HSC to compensate if necessary.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

revver said:


> Hi,
> Going to install ACS for my '18 Lyrik RC2, converting from 180mm to 170mm travel. I only can see the spring color charts for Fox 36 but not Lyrik, are they the same? My riding weight is around 68.5kg to 71kg, depending on the armour I wear and if I am carrying a hydration bag, should i go for the blue with minimum bump stop and preload spacer or stick to orange, riding at its upper limits? Lastly, any tables or baseline setting for an ACS coiled Lyrik 170 to start?
> Thanks.


- Yes they are the same! 
- Go for the Blue one
- for the base settings try this

HSC: open
LSC: open
RBD: in the middle 
Bump stop: 20psi


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

how accurate are the compression/rebound recommendations per spring?

i've been on a green spring(160mm & 180-190lbs) for a while and for some reason i feel less stable in the front wheel. like i just dont have any grip in the front anymore. could be me. i do have a black spring i could change, but i dont know if that would help. i had 3 really bad front wheel wash outs recently, could be extra dry/dusty flat corners.

i recently slowed down my fork reb from 11 to 10, which does feel a bit better. i've been running 11-12 clicks of lsc as well. 

what would you guys do? change to a stiff spring(black)? increase/decrease rebound? increase/decrease lsc? im on a fit4, so no hsc available.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Try one little thing before going into the fork settings/tuning.

Loose some air in you front tire and see if that makes a difference. When it’s dry and loose it helps a lot and sometimes a «working» fork setting struggles to find grip with those conditions. The tires are part of your suspensions


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

digev said:


> Try one little thing before going into the fork settings/tuning.
> 
> Loose some air in you front tire and see if that makes a difference. When it's dry and loose it helps a lot and sometimes a «working» fork setting struggles to find grip with those conditions. The tires are part of your suspensions


yeah i normally run 24f/27r, but i recently started doing 23f/26r just to test things out.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Try 20psi in the front.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

useport80 said:


> how accurate are the compression/rebound recommendations per spring?
> 
> i've been on a green spring(160mm & 180-190lbs) for a while and for some reason i feel less stable in the front wheel. like i just dont have any grip in the front anymore. could be me. i do have a black spring i could change, but i dont know if that would help. i had 3 really bad front wheel wash outs recently, could be extra dry/dusty flat corners.
> 
> ...


Does it feel like your wheel is skittering or is the suspension diving when you press into the corner?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

I understand a 160mm spring will work if switching to a 170mm fork. I think the only thing you need to change is the plunger rod??


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## revver (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi digev,
Thanks. Did the blue spring 170mm ACS3 conversion from my local PUSH dealer for my Lyrik RC2. 
Your recommended settings were pretty spot on, except I have 3 clicks in of LSC. Minimum changes to my X2 shock to balance up the ride so far. I will play around with the fork rebound and open up the LSC to try.
Beside the improvement for the small bump and plushness associated with coils conversion, I noticed better cornering traction and better fork control through rough stuffs with lesser rider corrections. The fatigue on my hands were lesser through the same trails I rode.
The only down side so far I can think of is adding that 250g plus weight, which I cant feel it.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Does it feel like your wheel is skittering or is the suspension diving when you press into the corner?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


feels like the wheel is skittering. i do get diving sometimes when im going mach chicken into a berm, but thats usually only at bike parks.

digev: 20psi in the front is pretty low. i'll try it again, but usually at around 21-22psi, i feel the dhf/assegai squirm in corners


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

revver said:


> Hi digev,
> Thanks. Did the blue spring 170mm ACS3 conversion from my local PUSH dealer for my Lyrik RC2.
> Your recommended settings were pretty spot on ...


You're welcome! Enjoy


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

useport80 said:


> digev: 20psi in the front is pretty low. i'll try it again, but usually at around 21-22psi, i feel the dhf/assegai squirm in corners


No worries go a tad higher, but you get the idea ... try to get as low as possible until it gets like you described.

Do you loose the front when going fast into a corner or at low speed?!


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

digev said:


> No worries go a tad higher, but you get the idea ... try to get as low as possible until it gets like you described.
> 
> Do you loose the front when going fast into a corner or at low speed?!


i'd probably say fast(at least for me).

how much pressure do you guys run in the ABS? im on a green spring with about 45-48 psi in the ABS, which is pretty close to the max. on my local tame trails i'll probably bottom out 1-2 times a week, there are some hucks to flat that will typically cause the bottom out.


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## caldog (Apr 11, 2011)

useport80 said:


> i'd probably say fast(at least for me).
> 
> how much pressure do you guys run in the ABS? im on a green spring with about 45-48 psi in the ABS, which is pretty close to the max. on my local tame trails i'll probably bottom out 1-2 times a week, there are some hucks to flat that will typically cause the bottom out.


Wow that's a lot of psi in the abs! Out of curiosity, how much travel is your fork, what color spring are you running and what's your weight?

From what I understand the more travel you have, generally the less psi in your abs is needed. I run the ACS3 in my 170mm Fox 36... I'm using a blue spring and weigh 165lbs (geared up)... I only need 5psi in my abs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

caldog said:


> Wow that's a lot of psi in the abs! Out of curiosity, how much travel is your fork, what color spring are you running and what's your weight?
> 
> From what I understand the more travel you have, generally the less psi in your abs is needed. I run the ACS3 in my 170mm Fox 36... I'm using a blue spring and weigh 165lbs (geared up)... I only need 5psi in my abs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


im running a 160mm fox 36 fit4 fork. currently running a green spring with 10 clicks of rebound(from closed) and 11 clicks of lsc(from closed).

im about 195 geared up(maybe i got fatter and didn't realize it).

i do have a black spring also, just debating whether or not i should run the black spring over the green spring. i've been on the green spring for over a year. with a stiffer spring, i'd expect to lose some small bump compliance.

after checking my records i had 49.5psi in the ABS.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

useport80 said:


> i'd probably say fast(at least for me).
> 
> how much pressure do you guys run in the ABS? im on a green spring with about 45-48 psi in the ABS, which is pretty close to the max. on my local tame trails i'll probably bottom out 1-2 times a week, there are some hucks to flat that will typically cause the bottom out.


Blue spring (45lbs) and 0psi in the ABS. The damper does it's job on fast compressions. I used to run 20psi but I was almost never using the last 1/3-1/4 of travel. Now it's perfect.

Back to loosing-the-front-end problem, don't use a firmer spring. Are the corners flat and dusty or with bumps and holes?! There's so many variables, but tire pressures, rebound and body position can help you with this.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

digev said:


> Blue spring (45lbs) and 0psi in the ABS. The damper does it's job on fast compressions. I used to run 20psi but I was almost never using the last 1/3-1/4 of travel. Now it's perfect.
> 
> Back to loosing-the-front-end problem, don't use a firmer spring. Are the corners flat and dusty or with bumps and holes?! There's so many variables, but tire pressures, rebound and body position can help you with this.


the front end problems were on a shallow loose berm and a flat loose dusty corner. i figured it was me and just body position.

i assumed that going up a spring rate wouldn't help either.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ACS3 on Fox 40/49 and Boxxer for 2020?! Could be 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stupordave (Jan 2, 2003)

Wanting to buy a black spring if anyone’s got one for sale.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

I have been mostly using an orange spring in my acs3ed 160mm Fox 36 rc2 but I also occasionnaly used a yellow spring (beginning of season and end of season when I'm slower). I always found the yellow spring noisier. I swapted the spring last weekend and something didn't feel right so I looked at it more closely. I found out that the coating was damaged inside the spring. Do you guys think it could be from deflection?


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

nightnerd said:


> I have been mostly using an orange spring in my acs3ed 160mm Fox 36 rc2 but I also occasionnaly used a yellow spring (beginning of season and end of season when I'm slower). I always found the yellow spring noisier. I swapted the spring last weekend and something didn't feel right so I looked at it more closely. I found out that the coating was damaged inside the spring. Do you guys think it could be from deflection?
> View attachment 1290213


Just curious, how much do you weigh? I'm 140 lbs bare and maybe 150 geared? I only use Orange in my Pike 160 fork because the yellow feels soft. Do you find the Orange not having the same amount of small bump compliance as the Orange coil? My air fork at 160 has more small bump compliance than the orange spring but I like the mid-travel support on the Orange and it's why I still have them on. It also forces me to ride harder or faster. Also, my sag is 18%.

About your spring. My orange spring is the v2 which is for 160-170 fork. The Yellow one I have (exactly like the one you posted) is a v1 that is designed for 140-160 which requires a preload spacer (about 20mm thick I think) for 160mm travel. I just returned the v1 back to get the v2 since the company I bought this spring screwed up on their part numbers and sent me the old version. I think the v2 is better because the outside and inside diameter of the coil spring is wider than v1. The v2 is snug inside the stanchion and it doesn't move around like the v1.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

Hey, I weigh about the same thing as you. With the orange spring, small bumps compliance is not the smoothest and I have to run both high and low speed compression out entirely. Mid-travel support is much better than with the yellow spring. Yellow spring allow is better for the small stuff but is pretty bad for drops that are 3 feet high and up. As for fitment, orange spring is totally fine with no excessive noise or damage. Thanks for your input!


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

THE BEST MTB COIL FORK CONVERSION: PUSH VS VORSPRUNG

https://fortheriders.com/blogs/news/the-best-mtb-coil-fork-conversion-push-v-vorsprung


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

digev said:


> THE BEST MTB COIL FORK CONVERSION: PUSH VS VORSPRUNG
> 
> https://fortheriders.com/blogs/news/the-best-mtb-coil-fork-conversion-push-v-vorsprung


Two things worth noting:

1. They made a big deal about the preload necessary to install the kit. That's not the case with our kits so I'm assuming that they had the incorrect preload cap for the spring rate that they were installing. This would certainly effect the performance.

2. The company who wrote the article may have some bias as they used to sell PUSH components but lost that ability and now are selling Vorsprung.

Darren


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

PUSHIND said:


> Two things worth noting:
> 
> 1. They made a big deal about the preload necessary to install the kit. That's not the case with our kits so I'm assuming that they had the incorrect preload cap for the spring rate that they were installing. This would certainly effect the performance.
> 
> ...


Main point worth noting:

The Vorsprung Smashpot kit is a superior product due to the HBO. Period.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> Main point worth noting:
> 
> The Vorsprung Smashpot kit is a superior product due to the HBO. Period.


Our first kit was an HBO unit. It worked really well in 170 and 180mm configurations and was on the limit for aggressive riders at 160mm. For 140-160mm forks the ABS was preferred which is why we ultimately picked ABS over HBO. We are able to go either way. The gravity market wasn't our focus so for the trail/enduro 140-160mm forks the ABS system is significantly lighter and offers the adjustability which was necessary.

Ultimately both the ABS and HBO get very little use. The vast majority of fork travel is not deep stroke bottoming, but rather the active travel which means that both kits really perform the same for the first 2/3rds of travel (or 90% of the trail). So it really just comes down to the added weight which is an area where we focused on heavily. This is why our system is so much lighter.

Darren


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

PUSHIND said:


> Ultimately both the ABS and HBO get very little use. The vast majority of fork travel is not deep stroke bottoming, but rather the active travel which means that both kits really perform the same for the first 2/3rds of travel (or 90% of the trail). So it really just comes down to the added weight which is an area where we focused on heavily. This is why our system is so much lighter.
> 
> Darren


Maybe by "vast majority" you mean by ride/hours, but when I use the HBO, it's when I really need it and it works like magic. On local trails that aren't very aggressive, I could probably do without it except for a handful of events, but when I go to Washington and do DH runs at Tiger Mtn, Darrington, Raging River and others, it's hugely important.

You have a point that the tuners, not just you, seem to think it's not helpful below around 160mm of travel, but your dismissal of it is somewhat troubling. To have HBO that absorbs energy rather than just returning it, it's a huge benefit to those big hits that you encounter when DHing hard. This is one of those areas where some tuners and suspension companies keep telling us how closed carts are superior...and they appear to have higher potential/theoretical performance, but time and time again they fall short due to limitations such as these. I've been on the HBO since around 2009 or so and it flat out works. I'd think if we are going for aftermarket tuning/coil kits, etc., we've already justified increased weight for better performance, as we realize it's the control that ultimately allows us to go faster.

In a lot of places, this isn't "gravity riding", it's XC, maybe different than midwest XC, but it's so mainstream now that it's not really fair to say that there's just a small subset of people doing aggressive DHs as part of their larger ride.


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Maybe by "vast majority" you mean by ride/hours, but when I use the HBO, it's when I really need it and it works like magic. On local trails that aren't very aggressive, I could probably do without it except for a handful of events, but when I go to Washington and do DH runs at Tiger Mtn, Darrington, Raging River and others, it's hugely important.
> 
> You have a point that the tuners, not just you, seem to think it's not helpful below around 160mm of travel, but your dismissal of it is somewhat troubling. To have HBO that absorbs energy rather than just returning it, it's a huge benefit to those big hits that you encounter when DHing hard. This is one of those areas where some tuners and suspension companies keep telling us how closed carts are superior...and they appear to have higher potential/theoretical performance, but time and time again they fall short due to limitations such as these. I've been on the HBO since around 2009 or so and it flat out works. I'd think if we are going for aftermarket tuning/coil kits, etc., we've already justified increased weight for better performance, as we realize it's the control that ultimately allows us to go faster.
> 
> In a lot of places, this isn't "gravity riding", it's XC, maybe different than midwest XC, but it's so mainstream now that it's not really fair to say that there's just a small subset of people doing aggressive DHs as part of their larger ride.


By vast majority I mean the amount of times it's used in a run. We categorize Soft bottom as 90-95% of travel, and hard bottom as 95%+. With a properly setup fork you would see a soft bottom count of 4-6 impacts, and a hard bottom no more than 2 impacts for a total of 8 impacts. If your suspension is exceeding that then it's too soft and not running at what would be considered optimum. That leaves several thousand impacts between 0-90% of travel. So, therefore I say the vast majority. I would argue that most riders who have a trail bike that take the same bike for shuttle runs or park days increase the firmness of their suspension. It is incredibly common. In fact, here in Colorado our trails are quite aggressive, but I even increase spring rate when I head to Moab to ride due to the difference in terrain.

Also, I'm not dismissing additional bottoming control for a linear spring. I'm simply saying that we built both an HBO system and an ABS system. We tried both, preferred the ABS and that's what we brought to market. We could have easily chosen HBO as the same plunger system can be converted, the weight would be almost the same, and cost the same to produce. It has nothing to do with open or closed cartridge systems&#8230;..we're only talking about the spring. In fact, both our ACS3 and the Vorsprung Smashpot use the same closed damper so I'm not sure why you're bringing the damper into the conversation?

Darren


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

What is the approx. weight difference between the two systems for a Fox 36 160mm fork?


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## B Rabbit (May 30, 2014)

Heya Team, 
Are there any plans for a 180mm ACS kit? Thanks


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

PUSHIND said:


> Also, I'm not dismissing additional bottoming control for a linear spring. I'm simply saying that we built both an HBO system and an ABS system. We tried both, preferred the ABS and that's what we brought to market. We could have easily chosen HBO as the same plunger system can be converted, the weight would be almost the same, and cost the same to produce. It has nothing to do with open or closed cartridge systems&#8230;..we're only talking about the spring. In fact, both our ACS3 and the Vorsprung Smashpot use the same closed damper so I'm not sure why you're bringing the damper into the conversation?
> 
> Darren


I don't know what your thoughts on this are. Perhaps offer both the ABS and HBO and let the customer choose (when ordering) which system he/she prefers.


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

I am selling a Fox 36 with ACS3 and Grip 2 damper if anyone is interested. 27.5 Boost with 160mm. Love the fork but I am switching to a 29er. Need to move it fast to my new frame built up.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2683594/


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/push-industries-acs3-fork-coil-conversion-kit-review/

https://s14761.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Push-ACS3-Coil-Conversion-Kit-010-810x540.jpg


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Question for those here:
I recently changed mine from a 160mm to a 170mm travel on my Fox 36 ACS3. Spring didn't change. I can't remember if it's blue or green, but for some reason in 170mm, it feels really harsh and I'm getting about half to 2/3 travel on the fork. I have just about all the knobs open for compression and rebound dampening and it still feels harsh.

I took the shock pump to it today, and I don't think there was anything in the bottom out control.

Is it possible something went weird on the conversion from travel from 160mm to 170mm? I used the parts that are for the 170mm (rod and bottom out, and I know the crush washer needed to be replaced).

Is it possible I need to go to a lighter spring for 170mm than 160mm? Thanks.


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## Stupordave (Jan 2, 2003)

I could tell a difference in the compression when I dropped mine to 150mm from 160mm using the same spring, but it wasn’t as dramatic as immediately blowing through all the travel. It was noticeably easier to go through it though. I guess it depends on how it was at 160mm for you. It will be a bit more firm with the increase in travel plus you’ll get the weight distribution change with the longer fork. You may want to try a lighter spring. 

Also depends on your fork year. If I recall, 2018 36’s required a few extra parts to get to 170mm like damper and CSU. 2019 and on was just the air spring side.


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## springs (May 20, 2017)

stripes said:


> Question for those here:
> I recently changed mine from a 160mm to a 170mm travel on my Fox 36 ACS3. Spring didn't change. I can't remember if it's blue or green, but for some reason in 170mm, it feels really harsh and I'm getting about half to 2/3 travel on the fork. I have just about all the knobs open for compression and rebound dampening and it still feels harsh.
> 
> I took the shock pump to it today, and I don't think there was anything in the bottom out control.
> ...


You might need a lighter spring going to 170. Were you using all the travel on the 160?


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Thanks everyone. I lowered it back to 160mm and it feels much better. I'm not really in a position to go buy a new spring right now.

If anyone is looking to buy the parts for changing their travel on a Fox 36 2018 or later to 170mm, lemme know. $75 and it's yours.


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## jdt086 (Mar 2, 2017)

Looking to get a new spring for my 15x100 Pike.
Does the boost and non boost models use the same springs?


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## neilgam1 (Mar 21, 2017)

Looking to try a blue spring for fox 36 if anyone is selling one?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

PUSHIND said:


> It will be available for all models, although there will be multiple kits to address the difference in top cap thread pitch.
> 
> I've said this before....Damper tuning and modifications are a nice upgrade, but nowhere near the performance increase that you wold see after installing the ACS3 kit as even stock modern day dampers are quite good.
> 
> Darren


I am late in discovering the ACS3, I purchased the ACS3 in 150/160 and orange/blue springs ten days ago for my Pike dual 2016, but I simply cannot believe how much better the fork works with respect to air Pike.

The bike is so much more level, stable and smooth on wet and downhill or rooted flats that my regular trails seem suddenly very tame. Off trail is smooth! The surprise is the uphill: somehow, contrary to my old Push/Vanilla circa 2006, the fork has minimal bob. But roots and steps sort of disappear and as a result the bike goes way faster uphill.

At 168 pounds dressed (158 naked) blue coil is happy with 8-10 psi, orange with 25 psi or so. 1 preload ring. Orange is soooo smooth, but blue is not far. I am going to install the 160 next: with the orange it might be the best set up for my type or riding.

Weight penalty is not too bad: 200 grams and change from the dual.

Thank you for this upgrade!!!!! Best fork I ever owned. :thumbsup: I am ready for shock with a similar air assist for my Ibis HD3!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Hello. I currently have a 2018 Remedy with a 160mm Lyrik on it. I already upgraded to the HC97 and it is awesome. I want to get the acs3 kit now for it. As a wrench in the works I am upgrading it to a 2020 Remedy. I also have a Trek Rail with a 29 Lyrik in 160mm on order and have a HC97 already coming for it also. I am going to order a acs3 for it too. I am wondering about spring rates. I currently run my Lyrik on my Remedy at a very low pressure of 62 psi with no tokens. I weigh 190 to 195 lbs with no gear. Usually I am about 10 to 15 lbs lighter. I run my LSC at 22 HSC at 13 and Rebound at 8 on the RP1 stack for charger 2. Off the charts it seems I should run a green spring in the remedy and possibly a black spring for the rail? I was just assuming because it is a emtb and heavier I should run the black. Any advice on spring rates. I was thinking I should maybe run green on both because I like the softer feel maybe even a blue on the Remedy. I have noticed it felt like I could finally run more pressure than before in the Remedy. I havent played with it much (only have about 4 rides on new hc97) and only took out the 2 LSC and added the 2 HSC to give me a little bit softer ride but prevent bottoming. It does however bottom more since I added the debonair spring just before getting the HC97 but I didnt want to lose the softer feel. What would you guys advise for spring rates for me?


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Hello. I currently have a 2018 Remedy with a 160mm Lyrik on it. I already upgraded to the HC97 and it is awesome. I want to get the acs3 kit now for it. As a wrench in the works I am upgrading it to a 2020 Remedy. I also have a Trek Rail with a 29 Lyrik in 160mm on order and have a HC97 already coming for it also. I am going to order a acs3 for it too. I am wondering about spring rates. I currently run my Lyrik on my Remedy at a very low pressure of 62 psi with no tokens. I weigh 190 to 195 lbs with no gear. Usually I am about 10 to 15 lbs lighter. I run my LSC at 22 HSC at 13 and Rebound at 8 on the RP1 stack for charger 2. Off the charts it seems I should run a green spring in the remedy and possibly a black spring for the rail? I was just assuming because it is a emtb and heavier I should run the black. Any advice on spring rates. I was thinking I should maybe run green on both because I like the softer feel maybe even a blue on the Remedy. I have noticed it felt like I could finally run more pressure than before in the Remedy. I havent played with it much (only have about 4 rides on new hc97) and only took out the 2 LSC and added the 2 HSC to give me a little bit softer ride but prevent bottoming. It does however bottom more since I added the debonair spring just before getting the HC97 but I didnt want to lose the softer feel. What would you guys advise for spring rates for me?


Shockcraft spring calculator is unique, give it a look.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Just another thought. Since I am buying the new Lyric Ultimate just to gut it and throw in the HC97 and the ACS3 what is everyones opinion on that setup vs prebuilt Push tuned Fox 36 with the ACS3 kit in it???



CaveGiant said:


> Shockcraft spring calculator is unique, give it a look.


 I will check out the shockcraft calculator however real world use of suspension components hold more weight. The best laid designs always get tweaked after testing and data collection.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Just another thought. Since I am buying the new Lyric Ultimate just to gut it and throw in the HC97 and the ACS3 what is everyones opinion on that setup vs prebuilt Push tuned Fox 36 with the ACS3 kit in it???
> 
> I will check out the shockcraft calculator however real world use of suspension components hold more weight. The best laid designs always get tweaked after testing and data collection.


Buying a Lyric «ultimate» to upgrade the damper with the HC97 is a waste of money ... you're basically paying for something you won't use. Just saying...

That's why if you have to buy something, people usually go for the cheapest C2 they can find.

As for the ShockCraft spring calculator and real world experience, well ... let just say that after too many attempts, testing etc... that was the only that worked for me period. It's well worth a few bucks in my opinion!


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Since I am buying the new Lyric Ultimate just to gut it and throw in the HC97 and the ACS3 what is everyones opinion on that setup vs prebuilt Push tuned Fox 36 with the ACS3 kit in it???


Both options are great.

But you should ask Push that question because honestly they seem to both perform very well and make people happy, no matter the setup. I don't think people with one of these would like/want to swap to the other if that makes sense.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Just another thought. Since I am buying the new Lyric Ultimate just to gut it and throw in the HC97 and the ACS3 what is everyones opinion on that setup vs prebuilt Push tuned Fox 36 with the ACS3 kit in it???
> 
> I will check out the shockcraft calculator however real world use of suspension components hold more weight. The best laid designs always get tweaked after testing and data collection.


I agree with digev. If you are going to swap over to both the ACS-3 and HC97 - save some money and purchase a new take off Yari. That alone will pay for a big part of your conversion.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

I talked to Push and I decided to go with the Lyrik. I did poke around looking for a cheaper chassis to use for the build however I do have a fork I can put the Ultimate guts into. I also wasn't 100% sure on what I was looking at. I am only halfway through this thread. I saw some info sayin the Yari had a smaller bladder and so I didn't want to go that route. I also couldn't seem to find many deals on last years forks or Pikes. If I could get a good enough deal on a new last years model or something then maybe it would make sense and I could just buy another HC97 for the 3rd fork. Gotta figure it out quick though as I just told the LBS to order the Ultimate...


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

I bought a pike C2 + HC97 + ACS3 160mm to put into my Yari chassis, works fine. Just to let you know that they are all the same ... the only difference is the thread at the top but because you swap the top assembly and replace it with the HC97 ... you just don’t care and that’s why you can either buy:

1) - the cheapest Lyric with a C2 you can find (any travel)
2) - the cheapest Yari + the cheapest C2 you can find (as long as the C2 is the same wheel size 27.5 or 29) (again any travel)

You can even buy a Pike C2 if you don’t want to have more than 160mm of travel!

PS: the Yari doesn’t have a bladder, it’s not a sealed cartridge like the charger, it’s an open bath called Motion Control.

ReS: Yari and Lyric share the same chassis (same thing)


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

What are you looking for? 27.5 or 29?

There is tons of Yari and charger 2 on eBay!


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

I need a 27.5. So the Yari has the same C2.1 damper in it? Isn't their a slight upgrade to the newer Charger in the Ultimate. Better seals or something?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> I need a 27.5. So the Yari has the same C2.1 damper in it? Isn't their a slight upgrade to the newer Charger in the Ultimate. Better seals or something?


Boost I guess?

No, if you get the Yari it's just for the chassis. You then have to buy a C2

The seal stuff is BS, the real difference between the C2 and the C2.1 is the shim stack ... honestly it's just marketing, plus you don't care because you are going to replace that stack by the HC97 anyway.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Here's an example of what would work.

C2
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.fr/ulk/itm/312529310705

Yari 27.5 (15x110)
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.fr/ulk/itm/174160181689


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Ok I found this, but your saying I still need a C2 for it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2019-R...VYREb4uwg0yw:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!80111!US!-1


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Ok I found this, but your saying I still need a C2 for it?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2019-R...VYREb4uwg0yw:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!80111!US!-1


Yes you need a C2! How much travel do you want/need?!

You can check this out as well!

https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/list/?q=Yari&pmin=&pmax=400&category=9&region=3


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Cheap C2 $110
https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2683171/

Cheap Yari (brand new) $400
https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2705066/

You get the idea, for about $400 or even a bit less you can get a brand new Yari (you don't care about the travel as it will be replaced by the ACS3) and for around $100 you can get a C2, then you have everything you need to install the ACS3 + HC97 without wasting anything.


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Sweet thanks. I was a bit confused as that ad I posted said it had Charger. I need a 160mm travel fork. I prefer new or a takeoff thats new. That one on pinkbike looks perfect. Thanks!


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

ThrottleAbuse said:


> Sweet thanks. I was a bit confused as that ad I posted said it had Charger. I need a 160mm travel fork. I prefer new or a takeoff thats new. That one on pinkbike looks perfect. Thanks!


You're welcome! $500 seems better than $1000 ... now you understand why we were talking about wasting money with the Ultimate (only the name and the price is Ultimate)


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Long shot here, but does anyone have a 150 or 160mm piston/shaft that is looking to go to a 170mm travel for a Lyrik? I've got a Lyrik with a 170mm in it on the way, and would much prefer a 150mm or even a 160mm.


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Anyone have a grey spring for a Fox 36 160mm?? I figure I'd reach out here.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I've got one. I'll most likely be working in Gresham all week if you wanna try and cross paths, lemme know.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

Anyone know if the ACS3 internals can be swaped over from a non boost FOX 36 to a boost 36? ...Thought I read somewhere that they cant for some reason????


-thanks


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

dmar123 said:


> Anyone know if the ACS3 internals can be swaped over from a non boost FOX 36 to a boost 36? ...Thought I read somewhere that they cant for some reason????
> 
> -thanks


Yes they can be changed over.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

Yes! The boost / non boost version thing is only for the Pike. I think it’s because they use a different thread under the top cap.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

thanks


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

I know the info is in here but I’m hoping someone takes pity on me as I haven’t had the time to properly search and haven’t found it with skimming. 
What exactly is needed to switch from a Fox ACS-3 to a Rock Shox? 
Thank you in advance,
Eric


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Can someone point in the direction of a RC2 setup up chart or starting point with the ACS? Just switched over from a fit grip. Black spring if it matters, thanks.

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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

You mean something like this?:

https://nsmb.com/articles/push-industries-acs3-coil-conversion-review/

Scroll halfway down and you'll see the spring chart.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Christopher Robin said:


> You mean something like this?:
> 
> https://nsmb.com/articles/push-industries-acs3-coil-conversion-review/
> 
> Scroll halfway down and you'll see the spring chart.


I think whalenard need more of the damper setup instead of the spring chart

Whalenare, I would just start with the hi and low compression set halfway from closed and go from there. When I sent my RC2 damper in for a "regular" tune, Push was offering a custon tume for people who had there ACS3 already. That's the settings they gave when for my spring weight. I have since backed out them both out a few clicks for some rides and increase them a few for jumping and more aggressive riding.The RC2 can be change quickly for particular rides.:thumbsup:

I should add that when I was using the 2016 Float air spring I had before the ACS3 upgrade I was using running the compression full open or just a fe w clicks from open. The coil kit allows you to use the pretty decent RC2 camper to it's fullest!


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Look below the spring chart... 

LS, HS, Reb

This is the first spring chart that came out when the RC2 cartridge was the main Fox damper. I found I'm pretty close to the recommended settings.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Christopher Robin said:


> Look below the spring chart...
> 
> LS, HS, Reb
> 
> This is the first spring chart that came out when the RC2 cartridge was the main Fox damper. I found I'm pretty close to the recommended settings.


Got it! Good find! All the times I have looked at those spring rates I hadn't seen the setting! Go figure!. Thanks


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

If anyone needs or is looking for one, I have a 170mm travel change kit for a Lyrik for sale.

Listing linked below:

https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2735505/

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Question about going moving the ACS3 from a 160mm fork to a 170mm fork:

The ACS3 spring can accommodate either 160 or 170 travel. Good. I also know you need the longer lower plunger leg. No problem. What about the air bump stop? Technically in the 170mm fork, the air bump stop will engage later because it's shorter...is that really a big deal?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Christopher Robin said:


> Question about going moving the ACS3 from a 160mm fork to a 170mm fork:
> 
> The ACS3 spring can accommodate either 160 or 170 travel. Good. I also know you need the longer lower plunger leg. No problem. What about the air bump stop? Technically in the 170mm fork, the air bump stop will engage later because it's shorter...is that really a big deal?


Yes. The kit comes with a new air bumpstop plunger as well. Each travel requires a specific length air plunger rod so that it can hit their 65% of travel target.

See the link I posted above. That's what comes in the travel kits. That's a 170mm kit for a Lyrik.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Next question...

Since the Marzocchi Z1 shares the same parts as the Fox 36, I'm assuming the ACS3 should drop right in then right? (even though Push doesn't have the Z1 as an option).


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Christopher Robin said:


> Next question...
> 
> Since the Marzocchi Z1 shares the same parts as the Fox 36, I'm assuming the ACS3 should drop right in then right? (even though Push doesn't have the Z1 as an option).


That I cannot answer, unfortunately. I'm not a fox guy so don't know enough about them to feel confident answering that.

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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Keep in mind the marz uses rythm CSU, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, because they are thicker, the only problem I can see arising is where the lower plunger rod top out spacer goes and gets clipped in on the bottom of the CSU. You could probably machine it down to work. Or just use a normal 36 CSU with a marzocchi lower


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

ChvleSS956c said:


> Keep in mind the marz uses rythm CSU, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because they are thicker, the only problem I can see arising is where the lower plunger rod top out spacer goes and gets clipped in on the bottom of the CSU. You could probably machine it down to work. Or just use a normal 36 CSU with a marzocchi lower
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Ahhh... there you go. Push's site says no-go with Rhythm. Thanks for clearing that up!


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

This might be blasphemy on this thread, but you can install the Smashpot in the Z1


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Yeah I know... I'm just trying to find a way to transfer over my ASC3 kit and damper to a newer fork.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Does anyone have a lyrik blaci spring for sale?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm installing ACS-3 on 160mm Lyrik, and want to make sure the installation is correct. 
I put in the lower plunger and installed the circlip.
Then I tightened the collar to sandwich the lower plunger in the uppers.
When tightening it, the inner part (18mm socket) completely went flush into the outer part. Does that look fine? I didn't see it covered on the lyrik video. Only found the below post by Darren.

Before tightening:








After tightening:










PUSHIND said:


> Something still doesn't seem right. This is how it should look when tightening down. The tools don't interfere with each other.
> 
> View attachment 1186681
> 
> ...


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## PUSHIND (Jan 14, 2004)

ben_mtb said:


> I'm installing ACS-3 on 160mm Lyrik, and want to make sure the installation is correct.
> I put in the lower plunger and installed the circlip.
> Then I tightened the collar to sandwich the lower plunger in the uppers.
> When tightening it, the inner part (18mm socket) completely went flush into the outer part. Does that look fine? I didn't see it covered on the lyrik video. Only found the below post by Darren.
> ...


The picture shows a Pike kit...not a Lyrik. If your fork is a Lyrik that's not going to work.

Darren


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

PUSHIND said:


> The picture shows a Pike kit...not a Lyrik. If your fork is a Lyrik that's not going to work.
> Darren


Thanks Darren! Well, that explains it, let's see if shop can send me a correct kit...


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

This might not be the best place to put this, but I added Push fork seals and removed the bump stop in the negative chamber (which slightly increases negative volume) on an Avy tuned Yari.
The fork was dialed by feel but also I utilize Shockwiz.
Anyways with these 2 changes I had to add 4 clicks LSC to make SW happy again as the fork moves so stiction free. 
The break away pressure just doesn't exist any longer. 
Pretty cool. 

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## weaver84 (Dec 12, 2006)

Do you know if there is a chart for the GRIP 2? With the high and low speed rebound?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

weaver84 said:


> Do you know if there is a chart for the GRIP 2? With the high and low speed rebound?


Give me a few and I'll see if I can find one. I think it was on the sheet I got back from Push after they rebuilt/tuned it.

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## weaver84 (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks, I had my shop do the install, so I didn’t see if it came with a chart?!


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

weaver84 said:


> Thanks, I had my shop do the install, so I didn't see if it came with a chart?!


That's tuned for me at ~180lbs.









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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That's tuned for me at ~180lbs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


interesting. im 180 NOT geared up and i run at green acs spring as well. but my fork is a fox36 160mm grip2, not a 170 like yours.

your recommended compression settings are around my range, but my rebound is way lower.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

useport80 said:


> interesting. im 180 NOT geared up and i run at green acs spring as well. but my fork is a fox36 160mm grip2, not a 170 like yours.
> 
> your recommended compression settings are around my range, but my rebound is way lower.


Tuned damper?

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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Tuned damper?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


nope not at all. it was a 2018 fox 36 fit4, and i dropped in the stock grip2 damper upgrade a 6-8 months ago.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

useport80 said:


> nope not at all. it was a 2018 fox 36 fit4, and i dropped in the stock grip2 damper upgrade a 6-8 months ago.


That could be a part of it. They tuned mine when I had it rebuilt.

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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Any tips to get rid of coil rub?


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

anyone else notice their ABS losing psi? i had the ABS unit replaced once before because some black plastic piece was getting destroyed inside.

im losing about 10psi a week.


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## dmar123 (Mar 30, 2009)

​Will the current acs3 kits work with the new Fox 36? ...Guessing there will be something for the 38?


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

Recommend you email push, the new 36 is probably a yes, since I don’t think the threading changed, you could also ask fox if the upper threads changed at al for the air spring, for the 38 a new kit will be required since the air spring is effectively its own cartridge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

useport80 said:


> anyone else notice their ABS losing psi?


Could it be from this old issue?

My old one (on a bike I no longer have) would bleed out slowly in the first year. The problem went away after I sent it back for its first annual service.

My shock pump drains quite a bit of pressure from the tiny volume of the ABS when I connect it, so keep that in mind as well.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Hi Digev

Thanks for you input on this thread.

You moved over from the Novy damper to the Push damper, is that still your choice?


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

loamranger said:


> Hi Digev
> 
> Thanks for you input on this thread.
> 
> You moved over from the Novy damper to the Push damper, is that still your choice?


Hey!

Thanks. Yes that's what I prefer for the terrain over here, it's super rocky and natural. The HC97 is really outstanding on segments where you can go fast but otherwise it gives too much feedback (for my kind of riding/tracks) on natural single tracks you can't always go full throttle ... maybe a tree felt down right after that corner, or since yesterday there's huge rock in the middle or part of the track has collapsed because it rained 2 days ago ... you know what I mean? On race day I would totally be happy with it, because you are charging 100% and you can go for it (safely). That's why I need something a bit more compliant. The HC97 is a solid upgrade but (I think) you have to have to terrain for it ... either safe(er) or a bit more mellow in between chunky sections. I hope this make sense.

The ACS3 on the other end is a no brainer for almost everyone looking to improve, compliance, grip and mid travel support! (2 different things so you can't compare but if you wonder what to upgrade first, spring or damper ... then definitely spring)

I'll put the HC97 on my Boxxer and I think it will shine because that's exactly the kind of speed, hits and tracks were you can go for it all day long!


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Digev, thanks.

So Novy damper going back on when you move the HC97 over to the Boxxer?

Waiting for ACS3 to arrive to go into 170 Lyrik with RCT3 damper atm. I’ll update when it’s fitted.


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

loamranger said:


> Digev, thanks.
> 
> So Novy damper going back on when you move the HC97 over to the Boxxer?
> 
> Waiting for ACS3 to arrive to go into 170 Lyrik with RCT3 damper atm. I'll update when it's fitted.


No the Novy Splug is on the fork and the HC97+C2 have been in a box for months now! Enjoy the ACS3


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Anyone wants to get rid of a 140mm boost pike acs3 assembly by any chance?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## rynomx785 (Jul 16, 2018)

While we're reaching out for parts.... anyone have blue Fox 36 spring they don't need?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Anybody got a black lyrik spring?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Deleted!


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Sold


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Anyone knows if the bottom legs and bolt opening are identical on the current boost pike? Can I put the acs3 in the damper side?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone knows if the bottom legs and bolt opening are identical on the current boost pike? Can I put the acs3 in the damper side?
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


Yes with only 1 small caveat - the rebound adjuster fouls on the brake mount casting, so you either need to modifiy the adjuster or use a 2.5mm allen key


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Yes with only 1 small caveat - the rebound adjuster fouls on the brake mount casting, so you either need to modifiy the adjuster or use a 2.5mm allen key


The openings and diameter look the same. I am not exactly understanding what do you mean.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

jazzanova said:


> Anyone knows if the bottom legs and bolt opening are identical on the current boost pike? Can I put the acs3 in the damper side?
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


I always just assumed that this wouldn't be possible, otherwise why would this not be standard practice to allow you to revert back to air spring in the future?


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

This might be a dumb question, but how does the same kit work for both 27.5 and 29 lyrik/yari forks? Do the stock forks use the same csu and air spring shaft (for a given travel) with the only difference being the lower castings? If that's the case, then I get it.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

GT87 said:


> This might be a dumb question, but how does the same kit work for both 27.5 and 29 lyrik/yari forks? Do the stock forks use the same csu and air spring shaft (for a given travel) with the only difference being the lower castings? If that's the case, then I get it.


Yes the lower legs are different, the 29er fork has the dropout lower down.


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## m1tch666 (Jun 20, 2014)

Darren,

I'm just coming back to biking after a year out with a knee operation. I have a Banshee Spitfire V2 running in 650b mode with CCDB CS and 150mm Pike. I'm assuming both shock and fork are requiring service as they had both lost air and have been sat static.

My question would be.....now tipping the scales at circa 240lb, rather than go to TF for my standard service, I'm edging towards having them fitted with the ACS-3 coil kit at the same time, killing two birds with one stone so to speak. Is it just a question of swapping springs as my weight returns to my normal range?

Second question, it's a 2014 Spitfire and I was going to get the eleven six. I can still source an older model eleven six which would fit my frame but wonder if I'd be better off selling my current kit, buy the new V3 and wait till you (if you are) produce the new eleven six for the V3 Spitire? 



Colin.


----------



## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Digev you are right about the Push ACS3, it’s absolutely transformed the DH performance of my ebike. I had a bit of a delay, due to Covid, in getting fitted by Jake at Sprung Suspension in the Forest of Dean U.K. He also loosened up the damper so the first two setting are softer than before. He gave me the blue and green springs to try. I started with the blue with two spacers on around 20% sag. I took one spacer out and got 25% and it now feels even better. Not sure I need to try the green spring?

These are the benefits with no downsides except for the cost 😂

Plusher, more comfort, better roll, faster, less tiring, better grip, more confidence 😀

Now for a coil shock for the ebike like my other analog bike which has an EXTStoria V3 an absolutely stunning shock.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Can someone explain to me why the bottom out control is so essential? I had a coil fork without any sort of bottom out control and I think I got full 170mm or travel a couple times. It seems like the ACS3 and the hydraulic bottom out are both mostly unnecessary, though it seems there is no choice anymore. My old coil fork was air tight enough that there was some natural progression near the end and of course a linear spring does provide more force as it is compressed, it is just linear.

Does having the bottom out control systems mean you can run a softer spring then you otherwise would so you get some benefit from a more supple ride at the top end? That is all I can think of as a bonus for the extra weight.


----------



## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

loamranger said:


> Now for a coil shock for the ebike like my other analog bike which has an EXTStoria V3 an absolutely stunning shock.


My YT Decoy has the new Push Elevensix HD. It's fantastic.
What e-bike? If you can swing Elevensix, then give it strong consideration. It mates perfectly with ACS-3, even better with ACS-3 and HC97.


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

sxotty said:


> Does having the bottom out control systems mean you can run a softer spring then you otherwise would so you get some benefit from a more supple ride at the top end? That is all I can think of as a bonus for the extra weight.


Yes. It allows you do choose your spring rate based on how you want the fork to feel in the first ~2/3 of travel and then dial in the bottom out support for bigger hits. If you like a firmer spring rate and/or don't tend to require a lot of bottom out support, you may not need the bottom out control.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

sxotty said:


> .
> 
> Does having the bottom out control systems mean you can run a softer spring then you otherwise would so you get some benefit from a more supple ride at the top end? That is all I can think of as a bonus for the extra weight.


Short answer is yes. Long answer, keep reading.

In theory it takes the sting out of big hits since like you said the spring is linear. Again, in theory, if you run a soft enough spring so that everything is super supple during average trail riding and then you huck a 3 1/2-footer to flat you might bottom out rather harshly. This set up will ramp up at the end and provide some relief. And that relief is adjustable.

If your spring is so firm that you can't make that happen well then it doesn't really come into play (much). And in theory once again, your every day trail riding would be harsher than is necessary since you're technically over sprung.

I received my kit in the mail yesterday it's sitting in my garage. Ordered the spring this morning. Can't wait to try it out on my Pike 150. I've always liked coil forks over air and on my rocky Phoenix trails I think it's going to be a nice improvement. As far as extra weight goes it doesn't concern me personally one bit. I'm hoping performance will far outweigh that factor for me. I ran a coil lyrik u-turn for many years that was kind of heavy but was the best fork I ever ran out here. The XC race crowd should be choosing the lightest air fork they can get their hands on.

Heads up to anybody looking for the kit, Jensen has the system for the Pike boost on sale for $279 (without spring)


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

jazzanova said:


> The openings and diameter look the same. I am not exactly understanding what do you mean.


I think he must have been talking about the previous generation of Pikes. On my 2017 Pike, the brake mount looks like it would interfere with the rebound knob. From your pictures, it looks like that's no longer an issue.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> My YT Decoy has the new Push Elevensix HD. It's fantastic.
> What e-bike? If you can swing Elevensix, then give it strong consideration. It mates perfectly with ACS-3, even better with ACS-3 and HC97.


Both really good shocks. EXT can come with spherical bearings which really helps.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Finally finished the install of the coil kit on my Pike today. Immediately took it for a ride around the hood. There was a terrible clunking top out noise happening. Had me super worried. After sitting around and sulking about the possibilities of money not well spent (and an email to PUSH) it dawned on me that when I was done with the install I never readjusted my rebound damping from full open. By default I always set my rebound and compression settings to full open during service.

Pro tip(or not so pro):. Don't forget to readjust your rebound damping. Once I did that it's silent as heck. Can't wait to get out on the trail.

I also greased the spring and added a few drops of super glue to the plastic sleeve where it mates to the coil in hopes that it will keep it from migrating.


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## NETTA170 (Sep 20, 2010)

*SAG issue with ASC3*

Hey,

Installed ACS3 with blue coil spring in PIKE 160MM MY2015 (upgraded with Debon-air shaft)
I'm ~183lb kitted.
Even so, static sag is ~18% and can't get >85% fork travel during my normal ride.
Started with 25psi in ABS and drop to 10psi without noticeable change.
The ride feel is tad-more plash on the small stuff.
The system works fine but looks like an "Over spring" :???:

Any ideas?


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

NETTA170 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Installed ACS3 with blue coil spring in PIKE 160MM MY2015 (upgraded with Debon-air shaft)
> I'm ~183lb kitted.
> ...


What's the problem? Do you typically like to run more than 20% sag? I don't. Do you ever take any bigger hits than what you encountered on your "normal ride"? If nothing else, maybe some margin for error when you make a mistake?

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

NETTA170 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Installed ACS3 with blue coil spring in PIKE 160MM MY2015 (upgraded with Debon-air shaft)
> I'm ~183lb kitted.
> ...


Why do you care about sag? My Pike 160 after the conversion is dramatically more compliant. I was running 25% sag with the air and now it is less and the fork is much better.

Unless I jump, and I rarely do, I do not get full travel with the 160. The fork seems very happy in the first 2/3 of the travel ...


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

NETTA170 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Installed ACS3 with blue coil spring in PIKE 160MM MY2015 (upgraded with Debon-air shaft)
> I'm ~183lb kitted.
> ...


I'll go against what the rest of these guys say. If you want it more plush feeling, drop a spring. I personally run about 25% sag in my fork. I prefer the initial stroke plushness.

After all, that's what the air assist bottom out is for... Those bigger hits these guys have been talking about.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## lawson (Apr 3, 2007)

I run a TF Tuned coil spring converted Pike.
Instead of running one of their coils, I have a black Push spring in there. It doesn't have any bottom out prevention, but genuinely as far as I can tell I don't need it.

I am about 95kg kitted up and it sits at about 20% sag.

It's bloody brilliant, and the fact that a push spring fitted, made tailoring the spring rate easy.

Thank you Push Industries 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

I run 0 PSI in the air bump stop and after a year of shredding in the Alps it's not needed either (with a blue spring)! The £149 TF tuned coil kit + Push spring idea is brilliant ... nice one


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## NETTA170 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Amazing !*



R_Pierce said:


> I'll go against what the rest of these guys say. If you want it more plush feeling, drop a spring. I personally run about 25% sag in my fork. I prefer the initial stroke plushness.
> 
> After all, that's what the air assist bottom out is for... Those bigger hits these guys have been talking about.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I came to answer GT87 when saw your reply.
This is exactly what I planned to answer :thumbsup:


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## lawson (Apr 3, 2007)

digev said:


> I run 0 PSI in the air bump stop and after a year of shredding in the Alps it's not needed either (with a blue spring)! The £149 TF tuned coil kit + Push spring idea is brilliant ... nice one


The tf blue springs we're all made too long and the option to upgrade to a a push spring was given to me. Total cost was £170 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

lawson said:


> The tf blue springs we're all made too long and the option to upgrade to a a push spring was given to me. Total cost was £170
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


That's such a bargain!

£375 ($470) for the kit 
£80 ($100) for the spring

As much as I love my ACS3, this setup is not half bad!


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Well I finally got one, put it in but tore a foam ring (I tried doing it all on bike which was on stand and still vertical so fork was horizontal and rings slid down) . Put old rings in for one ride while I waited for rwc rings. I have been riding and Fox 36 fit 4. It felt great. The damper now actually seems useful. Then put rwc rings in and now there is a slight sound from spring, it seems like top out noise, could you get that from to much torque on foot nut? My beam torque wrench is sort of vague at such low torque values. I can probably just ignore it as it still feels good, but I would like to avoid messing something up.


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## NETTA170 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Marzocchi Bomber Z1 Coil*

Hello,

Do Somone know the actual dimensions for the new Marzocchi Bomber Z1 Coil ? it is ~50% off the PUSH's one. 

Cheers,


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I also agree with R_Peirce above but with some caveats. If you ride a lot of steep stuff, especially if it's shelvy, you will get more fork dive. If you have a grip 2 and compensate with more compression you can get a spikey fork. Personally I wish there was a spring between black and grey. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## ChvleSS956c (Aug 29, 2011)

When are we going to see a kit for the Fox 38 or RS ZEB 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Push has indicated they have no plans for 38 or Zeb upgrades. They said they are working on other projects.


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## NETTA170 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Update ! - with "Orange" 40bl/inch*



NETTA170 said:


> I came to answer GT87 when saw your reply.
> This is exactly what I planned to answer :thumbsup:


Yap, now I can see what you guys talk about 
So plush - like a spring 

With the Orange spring, I'm just hitting the 25% sag mark. I pumped *30psi* into ABS and go to a ride with just a small max 2feet drops to flat.

The o-ring still has 3/4" at the end of the trail, so having quite a lot of safety margin if putting 55psi in ABS.

I must add here, that the stock fork for my TR Smuggler 2017 is 130mm and I running 160mm (great upgrade BTW).

I hope that this update helps others to make a decision.

Cheers.


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## cb750stu (Oct 1, 2019)

Hi almost finished fitting my coil conversion , quick question do I still put 10ml of fox oil in or is it more or less ??

Regards

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

cb750stu said:


> Hi almost finished fitting my coil conversion , quick question do I still put 10ml of fox oil in or is it more or less ??
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk


You can put slightly more now. 10 to 20 ml.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

cb750stu said:


> Hi almost finished fitting my coil conversion , quick question do I still put 10ml of fox oil in or is it more or less ??
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk


The instructions say 20 ml on the coil side.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

But the video says 10ml. I did 10. Probably doesn't matter much, it's just splashing the bushings.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Awhitt82 (Feb 26, 2018)

Hey guys,

I just recently purchased the ACS-3 with blue spring for my 2020 Fox Factory 36 GRIP2, 150mm travel.
I haven't been able to find a straight answer on what fork oil to use.....
(10-20ml?) Fox Gold 20wt on the spring side or Maxima Plush 10wt? I see PUSH is now using Motorex 10wt in their service kits?
On the damper side should I still use (40ml) of Fox 5wt teflon infused oil?
And is the 3ml of oil still required in the upper air chamber side?

Thanks!


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## Rideon (Jan 13, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> I also agree with R_Peirce above but with some caveats. If you ride a lot of steep stuff, especially if it's shelvy, you will get more fork dive. If you have a grip 2 and compensate with more compression you can get a spikey fork. Personally I wish there was a spring between black and grey.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


Have you tried the pre-load spacers that come with the spring?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ben_mtb (Feb 23, 2018)

Awhitt82 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> (10-20ml?) Fox Gold 20wt on the spring side or Maxima Plush 10wt? I see PUSH is now using Motorex 10wt in their service kits?


20ml of Fox 20wt (or RS 0w-30, or any of the above may work fine too)



Awhitt82 said:


> On the damper side should I still use (40ml) of Fox 5wt teflon infused oil?


Yes, 40ml of Fox 5wt, (or whatever substitute you put in the damper, like Maxima Plush 3wt)



Awhitt82 said:


> And is the 3ml of oil still required in the upper air chamber side?
> Thanks!


No.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

i have a black spring(55lb/in) for a fox 36 for sale. i ended up going with the green spring instead. send me a PM if you are interested.


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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

I have a 2017 29” 150mm RS Pike. I bought the ACS3 kit from PUSH and installed it. After being installed the travel was only 130mm. I contacted PUSH who sent me a different lower assembly which says lyric 150 on it. Assembled the fork and everything fits fine. I was sent a green spring for my weight/riding style with my initial order. The fork is very stiff. Small bump compliance is bad and the fork sag is minimal. Frustrated as I was excited about this fork kit and my bike is now pretty much unridable. Anyone know if perhaps I’d need a different spring with the lyric lower assembly? Are the springs different between lyric and pike forks? Appreciate any input.


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## Rideon (Jan 13, 2004)

tonloc08 said:


> I have a 2017 29" 150mm RS Pike. I bought the ACS3 kit from PUSH and installed it. After being installed the travel was only 130mm. I contacted PUSH who sent me a different lower assembly which says lyric 150 on it. Assembled the fork and everything fits fine. I was sent a green spring for my weight/riding style with my initial order. The fork is very stiff. Small bump compliance is bad and the fork sag is minimal. Frustrated as I was excited about this fork kit and my bike is now pretty much unridable. Anyone know if perhaps I'd need a different spring with the lyric lower assembly? Are the springs different between lyric and pike forks? Appreciate any input.


Have you called Push about this?

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## tonloc08 (Mar 13, 2007)

Have been emailing back and forth but haven’t gotten any definitive answers.


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## Rideon (Jan 13, 2004)

tonloc08 said:


> Have been emailing back and forth but haven't gotten any definitive answers.


I'd just call them and talk live. Too many details to get right with this very capable product. Push's customer service has been great in my experience.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

*Swapped spring and damper sides - is this a good or dumb idea?*

I've just got an ACS3 kit for a Lyrik.

Just in case I want to change back to air, I wanted to put the spring in the damper side and the damper in the air side. I checked the inside of both stanchions. Both sides have the same circlip groove and stepping at the bottom of the stanchion legs. The only differences I can see is the equalisation dimple and inner leg polishing on the air side.

I installed the kit swapped over - both threaded in OK at the top and the lowers seem to fit fine and installed properly at the bottom. I haven't ridden the fork on trails yet.

Is this a smart or dumb idea? Are there any other differences I should know about between the stanchion legs?


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

On the surface it looks like a "why didn't I think of that" idea.



fresh tracks said:


> I've just got an ACS3 kit for a Lyrik.
> 
> Just in case I want to change back to air, I wanted to put the spring in the damper side and the damper in the air side. I checked the inside of both stanchions. Both sides have the same circlip groove and stepping at the bottom of the stanchion legs. The only differences I can see is the equalisation dimple and inner leg polishing on the air side.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Might be brilliant if it works 👍



fresh tracks said:


> I've just got an ACS3 kit for a Lyrik.
> 
> Just in case I want to change back to air, I wanted to put the spring in the damper side and the damper in the air side. I checked the inside of both stanchions. Both sides have the same circlip groove and stepping at the bottom of the stanchion legs. The only differences I can see is the equalisation dimple and inner leg polishing on the air side.
> 
> ...


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Might be brilliant if it works 





bigdrunk said:


> On the surface it looks like a "why didn't I think of that" idea.


I've reached out to Push. I'll let you know what they say...


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

fresh tracks said:


> I've reached out to Push. I'll let you know what they say...


I'm calling this idea a bust.

The bits fit together OK. As the damper lower leg is shorter than the spring side by ~10mm, the available travel with the same spring rod is 10mm more. So my 160 becomes 170 and since the damper goes to 180, it can stretch the extra distance in the spring leg. Free travel!

But...looking at how much the lowers have been optimised in shape for the forces they get, I'm wondering how much the spring side has been reinforced at the bottom versus the damper side. I'm no engineer so I'm guessing and thinking the spring side lowers see more force applied to them on a regular basis than the damper side, as the spring side is holding up my weight, regardless of how fast I'm going.

The only person who can definitively say the swap is safe is a SRAM engineer that designed the lowers. I'm not holding my breath for that type of answer anytime soon.


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## Awhitt82 (Feb 26, 2018)

ben_mtb said:


> 20ml of Fox 20wt (or RS 0w-30, or any of the above may work fine too)
> 
> Yes, 40ml of Fox 5wt, (or whatever substitute you put in the damper, like Maxima Plush 3wt)
> 
> No.


Thanks!

I just finished my conversion last week and loving it so far!
I ended up using 20ml of Motorex 10wt in the spring side and the 40ml of Fox 5wt in the damper side with SKF green seals.
So far so good!


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## rich91724 (Oct 27, 2020)

I just picked up a used SC HT LT with a push acs3 in a fox factory 36 fork. I’m 172 without gear and 178 with gear so I’m on the border between the blue and green spring. Any recommendations on which spring to go with and what settings to use? Thanks.


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## Stupordave (Jan 2, 2003)

rich91724 said:


> I just picked up a used SC HT LT with a push acs3 in a fox factory 36 fork. I'm 172 without gear and 178 with gear so I'm on the border between the blue and green spring. Any recommendations on which spring to go with and what settings to use? Thanks.


I'd go with the heavier spring to avoid the potential for a harsh bottom out...especially if you ride aggressive or hit the accidental drop to flat. The metal to metal slap will stick in your mind forever! If you're a bit lighter on the bike, you'll be fine with the lighter spring.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

what harsh bottom out? the acs3 has the air ramp thing. plus the bottom out bumper is unchanged so not "metal to metal"...


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

spo0n said:


> what harsh bottom out? the acs3 has the air ramp thing. plus the bottom out bumper is unchanged so not "metal to metal"...


Yeah I've ridden mostly RS coil forks since 2005 and I've never experienced this metal to metal problem.

Currently running my 2019 Pike 150 with the acs3. Several months now and I love it. Sooooo smooth. No bottom out issues but I'm not dropping anything to flat larger than the occasional park bench. Trail drops are either less height or to transition. Only running about five PSI in the air chamber. Can't imagine that's accurate at all since I have a 300 PSI shock pump but whatever.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

*Under damped*

I'm really enjoying the small bump plushness of the coil. They say nothing feels like a coil and I now understand what that means!

The charger 2.1 damper however feels under-gunned on black/double black runs. I'm running out of travel when I should have some spare. I'm getting near the end of the damper settings to get support but also getting harshness.

Currently running a blue spring, 160mm Lyrik, 75kg, 40psi in air. Sag is 20%

I'm going to put the fast damper back in, which has way more low and high speed damping and range and see how that feels.

Anyone else feel the 2.1 damper is a bit under-gunned with a coil?


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

fresh tracks said:


> I'm really enjoying the small bump plushness of the coil. They say nothing feels like a coil and I now understand what that means!
> 
> The charger 2.1 damper however feels under-gunned on black/double black runs. I'm running out of travel when I should have some spare. I'm getting near the end of the damper settings to get support but also getting harshness.
> 
> ...


Yes to the charger damper.

Push HC97 would rectify this situation nicely


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

fresh tracks said:


> I'm really enjoying the small bump plushness of the coil. They say nothing feels like a coil and I now understand what that means!
> 
> The charger 2.1 damper however feels under-gunned on black/double black runs. I'm running out of travel when I should have some spare. I'm getting near the end of the damper settings to get support but also getting harshness.
> 
> ...


I use the 2.1 damper with orange spring on a Ibis HD3, 160mm Pike, 72 Kg, 14 psi air. I obviously must be riding much tamer trails, The 2.1 feels pretty good, better than the original.

But maybe you want to go up one spring rate? Certainly simpler than changing the damper.


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Push HC97 would rectify this situation nicely


Sold out unfortunately.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone have a grey 60# spring they’re not using?


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

I have one for FOX and RS(not sure if they are different or not), just pay shpg...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Duh, I didn’t include application 🙄

35mm stanchions (Pike?), it’s going to be used in a Helm if it fits.


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

yep, out of a Pike. will not be using it any longer...

Shoot me a PM with your address and Ill get a cost on shpg Monday. It's in a square plastic tube from PUSH so a padded envelope should suffice unless you'd like it boxed...


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

I also have a HC97 for a 2020 LYRIK. Purchased in March and removed in June for an AVY cartridge. Maybe 15 rides. Shoot me a PM if interested.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Davide said:


> I use the 2.1 damper with orange spring on a Ibis HD3, 160mm Pike, 72 Kg, 14 psi air. I obviously must be riding much tamer trails, The 2.1 feels pretty good, better than the original.
> 
> But maybe you want to go up one spring rate? Certainly simpler than changing the damper.


I tried the fast damper. Light years better. The same terrain that used all the travel too easily with the 2.1 damper I now have 15-20mm of travel spare.

Yes, you're right, I could go up to the green spring if I kept using the 2.1 damper. When I used an air spring, I was using 90psi, versus 70psi in Rockshox guidelines for my weight with the 2.1. The 2.1 just seems really low in damping force.
All good though - I have a workable solution.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

What is the fast damper? This guy? https://www.fast-suspension.com/en/...del-rs_pike_35_since_2016_revelation_35_160mm


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Davide said:


> What is the fast damper? This guy? https://www.fast-suspension.com/en/...del-rs_pike_35_since_2016_revelation_35_160mm


That's an interesting find. No, I haven't got that one. I'd be interested to find out how it performs. I have an older fast damper that fitted into the first version of the charger damper. Deleted now. Here was the pike version:
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-review-fast-suspension-3-way-factory-kit-for-the-rs-pike/

I've gone through a few iterations. First the fast damper to improve on the original charger damper, then added the DSD runt. The fast damper had too much damping for the DSD runt, which has a boatload of mid stroke support. So I got the 2.1, which paired well with the runt. Then I got coil curious and in a back to the future move put back in the old fast damper which seems to pair better with the coil for my style of riding.


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## grrrah (Mar 26, 2004)

tbmaddux said:


> Sold out unfortunately.


It's been out for a while. And PUSH has said they are working on something new :idea:


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

tbmaddux said:


> Sold out unfortunately.


Pike/Lyrik? this is the first link that popped up for me, looks to be in stock.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=99320


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

eatdrinkride said:


> Pike/Lyrik? this is the first link that popped up for me, looks to be in stock.
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=99320


This is where I found it was sold out:
https://www.pushindustries.com/products/hc-97


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

tbmaddux said:


> This is where I found it was sold out:
> https://www.pushindustries.com/products/hc-97


Yeah I understand it might be sold out at one particular place. I was simply pointing out it's available on the open market. There's no requirement you purchase from push directly.

I'm kind of hoping they come out with a new open bath system. Sometimes old school is just easier and better for the end user.

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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

I bought a used Lyrik. With the upgraded charger RC2 2.1 (I hope it is 2.1 because there is no difference from the outside) and with the Push ACS-3 kit installed.
When I test with my hands. From the beginning it goes smoothly. And when I compress the fork to 40% and keep it at that level. Let’s say 40kg is needed to compress fork to 40%. And I need to add at least 10-15kg more force to start the fork moving again from that 40% to deeper travel.
I have the same issue with my 8 years odl Air Fox 32. And i wos expected that with coil fork this issue will not exsist. 
So I have a question for ACS-3 users. Do you have the same issue? Is this normal?
(The fork is freshly serviced) 
Thank You.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Has there been a decision on what is the best shrink wrap to use to replace the one on the spring?


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## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Nikola777 said:


> So I have a question for ACS-3 users. Do you have the same issue? Is this normal?


Sure doesn't seem that way to me. I wonder what you'd find if you pulled the spring and tried again. It shouldn't be the damper. Maybe something is binding up at mid-stroke?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Nikola777 said:


> I bought a used Lyrik. With the upgraded charger RC2 2.1 (I hope it is 2.1 because there is no difference from the outside) and with the Push ACS-3 kit installed.
> When I test with my hands. From the beginning it goes smoothly. And when I compress the fork to 40% and keep it at that level. Let's say 40kg is needed to compress fork to 40%. And I need to add at least 10-15kg more force to start the fork moving again from that 40% to deeper travel.
> I have the same issue with my 8 years odl Air Fox 32. And i wos expected that with coil fork this issue will not exsist.
> So I have a question for ACS-3 users. Do you have the same issue? Is this normal?
> ...


I found that oil makes the plastic sleeve on the spring swell after a while. It was causing enough binding to give me the same feeling. Got rid of it and its butter again. Now I'm trying to find something to replace it because it does stop the spring from raddlng.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

I took out the spring and tried without it.
It goes pretty smoothly all the way.
After that, I removed the plastic sleeve. And put back coil. And the situation has improved.
It still needs extra force to break through but is half as much as before. I am satisfied with such a condition. Except it's noisier now. The spring hitting the station and produces noise.
Now i am also in search for sleeve replacement.
This sleeve actualy is "heat shrinkable tube". 
Maybe I yust try with new one. But need to look that version of heat shrinkable tube is without adition adhesive.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Nikola777 said:


> I took out the spring and tried without it.
> It goes pretty smoothly all the way.
> After that, I removed the plastic sleeve. And put back coil. And the situation has improved.
> It still needs extra force to break through but is half as much as before. I am satisfied with such a condition. Except it's noisier now. The spring hitting the station and produces noise.
> ...


Do you know when the last time the fork was serviced?


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

It is freshly serviced.
i tried again today how the fork works. And concluded that there is no difference with and without sleeve. At first impression I thought there were differences but it is not. So I screwed back the old sleeve. And it is the same with or without at my case. :-(
Friction apparently occurs at another part inside the fork.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

I have blue spring installed. The blue spring should be 45lb / inch according to the specifications. My weight is 185lb.
And I lean all my weight on the steering wheel. And the fork dive only 2.5 inches. By calculation it should dive 4.1 inches. 185/45=4.1


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

Is it possible that the red part on which the spring rests, from the pressure of the spring begins to expand and at one point becomes like a seal. And that seal creates extra friction. And that seal starts to compress the air which becomes an extra air spring? 
Is that red part made of rigid plastic or rubber plastic.?
I can’t open the fork on my own to that point so i can check it.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Nikola777 said:


> Is it possible that the red part on which the spring rests, from the pressure of the spring begins to expand and at one point becomes like a seal. And that seal creates extra friction. And that seal starts to compress the air which becomes an extra air spring?
> Is that red part made of rigid plastic or rubber plastic.?
> I can't open the fork on my own to that point so i can check it.


It is hard plastic. I've cracked 2 of them so far.... I think it is from the spring sticking to it when I removed the spring and pulling it out of place. They call it a spring bearing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## neilgam1 (Mar 21, 2017)

Hi, I've a 50lb spring for sale for fox 36 if anyone looking one.









Push ACS3 Spring Fox 36 50 lb/in spring | eBay


<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Push ACS3 Spring Fox 36 50 lb/in spring. Condition is "Used". </p> <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Only used for a few rides and swapped for lighter spring.</p> <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Dispatched...



www.ebay.co.uk


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## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

Anybody here can suggest HSC LSC Rebound settings for a 150mm lyrik rc2.1 charger damper? I'm using the greens spring which actually feels good, just need help in dialing in my damper settings for those chattery, rutty, braking bump trail. I'm currently at 
HSC 0 (full open) 
LSC 6 from full open
Rebound 6 from full fast


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

Any suggestions for settings on a Fox 36 original Grip2 damper 150mm (black spring). Feels good on the small bumps, but tends to be a little harsh on the bigger stuff. Hoping to get a better starting point than where I'm currently at.

Thanks!


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## chestont (Aug 4, 2009)

Brian HCM#1 said:


> Any suggestions for settings on a Fox 36 original Grip2 damper 150mm (black spring). Feels good on the small bumps, but tends to be a little harsh on the bigger stuff. Hoping to get a better starting point than where I'm currently at.
> 
> Thanks!


I have this setup and I found running more air in the bottom out piston really helped with big bumps.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

chestont said:


> I have this setup and I found running more air in the bottom out piston really helped with big bumps.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


What settings are you at? I'm not blowing through travel so I think the stock 20lb of air is fine. Its mid travel, that feels a little on the harsh side.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Brian HCM#1 said:


> Any suggestions for settings on a Fox 36 original Grip2 damper 150mm (black spring). Feels good on the small bumps, but tends to be a little harsh on the bigger stuff. Hoping to get a better starting point than where I'm currently at.
> 
> Thanks!


sounds like spikey hsc


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Nikola777 said:


> I took out the spring and tried without it.
> It goes pretty smoothly all the way.
> After that, I removed the plastic sleeve. And put back coil. And the situation has improved.
> It still needs extra force to break through but is half as much as before. I am satisfied with such a condition. Except it's noisier now. The spring hitting the station and produces noise.
> ...


I had the same problem but my solution was to cut the plastic sleeve and leave just a couple of inches in, that way the binding is mostly gone but no rattling.

But I am frankly a bit tired of dealing with the Pike and all the stuff I need to constantly do to make it work decently ... if it is not the seals, it is the air build up, if it is not the air build up is the air spring, you get rid of the air spring and install ACS3 coil, great, but after a while it still binds because the air build up is back, You upgrade to a 2.1 cartridge trying to get a better LSC, it does but then the plastic sleeve in the coil starts to bind, and then of course the air build up is back. Now the strangest thing: when I open the left (coil) leg there is a distinct hiss, and when I compress the fork you can hear air being forced through internally ... go figure ... this is the spring side.

The result is an unpredictable fork. It works fantastic when it does, but literally in a couple of days it can feel like crap ... it has been five years, it might be time for a DVO Diamond.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

In one moment I was suspicious that coil and shrink is the problem which creates bindings. But it was not.
How did I come to that conclusion?...
I removed lowers. And I tried to compress the spring leaning only on the shaft. And there were no bindings. So it was not an acs-3 kit which created bindings. Binding is done by bushings and stanchions. And this needs to be smooth. 
I tried my best to do my fork work as best as possible. And the last thing I did was polish the stanchions. I was trying with my fingernail to scratch on stanchions and I realized that stanchions were not perfectly smooth. (Some say that this is on purpose. That this pores holding beter oil and lubrications is better on bushings which improve live time of bushings.  ) It was a little smoother only in the sag zone. (to mark "20%") Probably because of self polishing by time use. But it was much worse in higher travel at the top.
I removed lowers and polished complete stanchions (with Cerium Oxide. That is powder for polishing glass)
This polishing was not damage coating. And markings of sag/travel look the same. 
That improved smoothness pretty much. And now fork work as it should!
(Before polishing I resized bushings and try how it works. Which can also be the problem. Tight Bushings = Harshness
But it was not in my case. I did not feel significant improvement after resizing bushings. )


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## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

Cant believe i didnt find this before
So i converted my none boost pikes with charger rct3 (1??) to 140mm push acs 3 lst year
i was sent the blue? spring at 78kg naked
i run these on my hard tail. but the support under pedalling out of the seat was dire.. even using pedal/lockout it wasnt great
anyway, i grabbed a green spring and that helped a fair bit... 
however, i have just swapped frames, and ideally would like to get a replacement shaft to extend the forks to 150mm.. anyone know where to get jsut this part in the UK? jsut tried TFtuned
is there a better damper that will make a signficant difference? ie charger 2 or 2.1 (although all i can see are rct3 models and i feel the none 3 position damper would be better)
thanks


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Alan1977 said:


> Cant believe i didnt find this before
> So i converted my none boost pikes with charger rct3 (1??) to 140mm push acs 3 lst year
> i was sent the blue? spring at 78kg naked
> i run these on my hard tail. but the support under pedalling out of the seat was dire.. even using pedal/lockout it wasnt great
> ...


Hi, I installed a charger 2.1 and it made a bit of a difference just because it had a softer setting for low speed rebound that helped with my body weight (155 pounds). But other than that it made really no difference. I am selling a PIke 150 (A1-A3, 2014-2017 non-boost) ACS3, as well as blue and organge spring. Not sure what the cost would be to UK but it is probably not too bad.


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## LowLow (Sep 18, 2007)

delete


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## skifishbum (Mar 29, 2018)

Are most people going up in spring size ?
I have 160mm lyrik on a GG smash with the orange spring. Pretty green to the coil world. Should I install the preload spacers since I’m at the end of the spectrum ? At about 25% sag. Got about 15 psi in the air shaft. High speed and low speed compression open. Fork feels pretty plush now but coming off a pretty gnarly injury so not riding too hard. Scared about going OTB since it’s so plush.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

skifishbum said:


> Are most people going up in spring size ?
> I have 160mm lyrik on a GG smash with the orange spring. Pretty green to the coil world. Should I install the preload spacers since I'm at the end of the spectrum ? At about 25% sag. Got about 15 psi in the air shaft. High speed and low speed compression open. Fork feels pretty plush now but coming off a pretty gnarly injury so not riding too hard. Scared about going OTB since it's so plush.


Might be too soft, hard to say. Personally, on a 170mm blue I'm getting about 15mm sag, way too little, and I have to run a ton of rebound in an attempt to control it. I run virtually no pressure in the abs and my damper cart has its own abs and even dropping to flat I'm not engaging it. So I'm going down in spring force to orange.

But it sounds like you might be in the opposite situation. You have to gauge it on how much travel you are using vs the terrain you are riding. On most stuff, I'm missing out on about 1.5-2" of travel. I'm not saying I should be using "full travel" all the time, but -2 is pretty significant.


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## skifishbum (Mar 29, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Might be too soft, hard to say. Personally, on a 170mm blue I'm getting about 15mm sag, way too little, and I have to run a ton of rebound in an attempt to control it. I run virtually no pressure in the abs and my damper cart has its own abs and even dropping to flat I'm not engaging it. So I'm going down in spring force to orange.
> 
> But it sounds like you might be in the opposite situation. You have to gauge it on how much travel you are using vs the terrain you are riding. On most stuff, I'm missing out on about 1.5-2" of travel. I'm not saying I should be using "full travel" all the time, but -2 is pretty significant.


thanks for sharing experience. How much do you weight ?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

skifishbum said:


> thanks for sharing experience. How much do you weight ?


About 170, although angles have a lot to do with how much of your weight is on it.


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## Rideon (Jan 13, 2004)

skifishbum said:


> Are most people going up in spring size ?
> I have 160mm lyrik on a GG smash with the orange spring. Pretty green to the coil world. Should I install the preload spacers since I'm at the end of the spectrum ? At about 25% sag. Got about 15 psi in the air shaft. High speed and low speed compression open. Fork feels pretty plush now but coming off a pretty gnarly injury so not riding too hard. Scared about going OTB since it's so plush.


I was in your boat last spring, coming off a tough injury and really needing high quality suspension, thus I went with the ACS3. Fox 36 Grip2 at 140. I weigh around 185 and run the black spring per Push recommendation. Running about 20% sag and just a smidgen of pressure in the bump stop. I've went back and forth with a lighter spring(green in my case)but it didn't feel right. Actually felt more harsh, which I came to believe was "packing up" or just too much sag, so I switched back to black. Black got me riding higher in the travel, and once I sped up the rebound and added a fair bit of compression, I've found that sweet spot.

After a year of riding this setup, for me it was much like an air spring fork whereby you have to get the sag correct FIRST, then dial in rebound, then dial in compression. With ACS3 though I found that it can need more rebound and compression than you think it does. One of the Push reps had mentioned that to me awhile back, but I guess I'm a slow learner! Don't give up, this thing is amazing. FYI I'm not a "jumper" per se, but I do like going fast thru technical rocks and roots both up and down and in between

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mraye258 (Apr 26, 2021)

Just installed ACS3 on my 160 Lyrik with a blue spring and I am getting a weird creaky/rubby feeling during slow compressions. Almost like the spring is rubbing inside the stanchions and transmitting the vibrations up, so its pretty annoying. I checked that the heat shrink is in the middle which it is. I have greased with slick honey, but with no improvement. Is this normal? What else can be done? Should I just try more heat shrink or thicker grease?


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

When you put spring inside a stanchion. You must be sure that spring sits down correctly on red plastic. One part of red plastic should fit inside of the spring. (5mm or so).
I once mounted a spring on top of that red part. And I had issues like that. (And of course after few testing jump/hits in my garage i broke that red part X.x)
At first I was surprised why I needed to press the spring with a top screw before thread bite.
If spring is mounted correctly. Top Screw should go freely to 50% thread. Then after that 50% should start pre-compress spring.

If This is not the case.
One thing that you can do. To be sure that ACS-3 is a problem (or it is not).
That you remove lowers and try to compress the spring only on the shaft.
Damper side compress max inside and fix in that position with electrical tape. (you do not want both shafts on the floor)
Put some rag on the floor. And compress the spring with a shaft.
Be sure that you compress 100% vertically to not bend the shaft.

If everything is fine mounted. No vibrations should be felt as you describe.
Maybe with bigger jumps, a little spring will vibrate, but like this, just by trying with your hands. not.
Slick Honney should be fine.

I had some sticking problems/ high braking force. And I was sure that something with acs3 is a problem. And I tried everything to improve the system with not much success. And finally i realized is that the bushings is the parts which create frictions in deaper travels. Deeper you go in travel. More stress is on bushings and there is all your friction. 
Acs3 is noticeable only in the sag part.After bushings disrupting everything. And there is not much improvement.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

mraye258 said:


> Just installed ACS3 on my 160 Lyrik with a blue spring and I am getting a weird creaky/rubby feeling during slow compressions. Almost like the spring is rubbing inside the stanchions and transmitting the vibrations up, so its pretty annoying. I checked that the heat shrink is in the middle which it is. I have greased with slick honey, but with no improvement. Is this normal? What else can be done? Should I just try more heat shrink or thicker grease?


Remove the spring and see if the red spring bearing (plastic top-hat presses lightly on top of the lower assembly and at the bottom of the spring) has broken. Use a flashlight and/or a coat hanger ....or shake upside down. This can cause the spring bind if it's broken as the bottom of the spring no longer sits flush.


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## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

did push made a video on how to change the travel? couldn't find any on youtube so I thought I'd ask..


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## skifishbum (Mar 29, 2018)

I am selling a 2020 lyrik ultimate that’s been converted if anyone is interested here. Have blue and orange springs.


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## RadicalPugilism (Nov 24, 2020)

Picked up a used Push'd Fox 36. Towards the end of the ride, when I wasn't really hammering down and on very mellow terrain, the initial part of the travel felt a little sticky. Could it be I just need a service?


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## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

RadicalPugilism said:


> Picked up a used Push'd Fox 36. Towards the end of the ride, when I wasn't really hammering down and on very mellow terrain, the initial part of the travel felt a little sticky. Could it be I just need a service?


yea, pull it down and see if it still has oil. grease it nicely and maybe replace seals.
if it doesn't work, probably you are on a wrong spring rate?
mine works really well.


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## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

kimochi said:


> did push made a video on how to change the travel? couldn't find any on youtube so I thought I'd ask..


you need to change the whole shaft assembly, so its identical to installing from new


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## tkaszuba (Dec 16, 2010)

Not sure if this thread is still alive but I'll try.

I just installed the ACS3 kit into my Yari RC 160mm fork. I weigh around 92-93 kg with full kit. I got the black spring since the green wasn't available. I hated the yari, it felt so bad that when I went through break bumps it felt like the muscles on my forearms wanted to rip off. I installed the luftkappe but I didn't feel much of a difference honestly. My previous settings were 8 clicks out from fastest rebound (8/20) and 5 clicks of LSC. After putting in the ACS3 kit, I took it out to the bike park in Pila to try to set it up. What I found was that the fork felt a lot better with a lot of rebound damping, so much so that I settled on 6 clicks from slowest (14/20), I kept the LSC still at 5 since moving it to either way seems to have made it worse. At this setting the fork really powers through break bumps and holes when cruising at a decent speed. If I let off on the rebound the fork would get more harsh and if I added more rebound then 6 out from slowest it would get more vague/squirmy. On slow steep technical rooty/rocky descends the fork felt pretty harsh but it never dived once which I love, I guess the damping is too much for such a scenario. I used about 65% of full travel front and back, no big drops or jumps. Traction was phenomenal and Pila is super dry and dusty. I'm a bit out of my league here because the fork feels so much better than any other fork I've ever used before and it feels strange that I need so much rebound damping but I guess it's due to the faster black spring. Is this normal? 

I ordered a green spring anyways since I think I'm oversprung but I'm not sure I need it.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

^^^
You put a lot out there but I'll just say this. The spring you need is largely determined by weight and riding habits/style/terrain.

As a very general rule, at some point you should get near full travel on your biggest of hits, whether that's a hard g-out or landing a drop or whatever. If you find you're only getting 65% max on every ride you are probably oversprung. I find it takes quite a bit for me to max out the travel. And don't forget the last portion of travel (bottom out) can be dictated with the air pressure. I run very little air, probably 5 psi based on my shock pump which I'm sure is not accurate in the least bit at that reading. I in fact might be a bit oversprung but I'm happy with it.

As to all the rebound damping adjustments, I don't know. I think I tend to run my Pike 150 a little on the springier side. I like the feedback and it seems to handle cornering better. All I know for sure is it soaks up the chatter compared to when it was an air sprung Pike. 

I don't have high speed compression damping adjustment (rct3) so I just run what it is and it's worked out pretty darn well.

Sent from my DE2117 using Tapatalk


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Oh, and pro tip:

Put some super glue on the inside of the plastic wrap top and bottom where it meets the coils. I've heard of people having a problem with the plastic sleeve moving all the way up. I have never had this problem and I glued mine from the beginning. If you've greased it all up already, and you should have then you would need to clean it thoroughly first. 

It's also possible they've addressed the issue with the newer versions.

Sent from my DE2117 using Tapatalk


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