# New ECDM Build Advice



## phill77 (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi Guys,

After a couple of years off road tandeming on a rigid bike, my wife and I have spent the last few days riding a borrowed ECDM. 
Our typical riding overall is only about 70/30 - on/off road, but my darling wife says it is so much more comfortable even on our (dreadful) roads that we should get one sooner than later. I don't think the better control and comfort is bad either.:thumbsup: 

We are a light pair at about 280lb, and generally do quite gentle off road routes. We live in a rural area, so off road is usually rolling farm tracks, muddy trails over and round the fields, some tight singletrack through the woods, but very few steep hills or rocky sections. We do ride all over the UK though, the only things I won't ride are big drop offs and real boulder gardens.

I've a good idea of most of the build, but am not sure what to pick for the following:

Forks - Our demo bike was fitted with White Magic 100T which seemed great, but I'd prefer something single crown, and as we are a light team, something no heavier.

Tyres - Continental Vertical 2.3 were fitted. They were generally great off road, except I think something narrower would be better over winter in the mud and they dragged a bit on road. I have Continental Travel Contact semi-slicks on our bike, which are great on hard tracks and handle most things ok when it is dry. I'd like something inbetween, I was thinking of trying Maxxis Crossmark 2.1

Wheels - I'm using 36h XT hubs on Mavic XM719 on our current bike. I'd like to stick to mavic rims, is there any reason for me to go to a wider or different rim considering our weight? 
I'd like to use Hope hubs, but I'm guessing (haven't measured) that the ECDM rear is not 135mm spacing. Considering our low-ish weight are there any particular hub recommendations?

Brakes - Our bike has Avid BB5, the demo ECDM Magura Louise. I preferred the Magura on the front, but it didn't seem to have the same bite on the rear. As with the hubs, I'd like to use Hope M4 brakes because of the good support in the UK.

Any comments would be appreciated, as I won't get the chance to spend this much on a bike again!

Thanks for reading,
Phill.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Hello Phill,

For the fork, if you can find a DUC 32, while dual-crown, it is a lighter fork good for lighter teams. Otherwise, the Marzocchi line of 55s and 66s are single-crown forks that are spec'ed for tandem use. I have an '06 66SL and have had no issues with it. There is a fork thread here in the tandem forum that might have more info and reviews.

I won't be of help on the tires. I have 2.5s and have stayed with 'em. Different riding conditions, obviously, but helps everywhere when you want to roll over stuff.

I believe the ECdM is 135mm spacing.

Bite issues on the brakes may have to do with pad compounds. I've had good luck with Hope sintered up front and organic in the back (we run Hope Mono6). But, again, we stay out of the wet (local trail erosion issues, and a captain who doesn't have wipers for glasses).


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Sounds like the tandem you borrowed might have been one of our builds. If the Louse brakes were silver or had silver jacketed lines, the softer rear brake was common with that edition. The newer Louise Tandems don't have jacketed lines and don't have that same difference in feel, and are much more tune-able due to the pad contact adjustment. 
As noted already tires are a local sort of thing, but generally the bigger, the better for tandems off-road. You don't mention your location, so I can't offer specifics of builds shipped to similar locales.
Second the Marzocchi option for single crown, but team weight has a bearing on that as well; typically teams over 300lbs are better suited to double-crown forks.
If the tandem you rode was a few years old, there is some difference in the Magic 100 T fork now; it's plusher and more active due to a spring change made after we whined for a while to WB. It's actually plush enough for us to ride on our demo tandems.
Feel free to call if you'd like more specifics on what works and what doesn't.
Good luck, and welcome to the fold!


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## phill77 (Aug 31, 2008)

Oops, I thought my location would pop up by my name, I got that one wrong though! I live near Cambridge, England.

Thanks for your comments. 
I think fork choice is my biggest headache right now. I'm going to treat myself to a totally new bike, so a DUC is seemingly out of the question.
Any idea how much steering lock you lose by using a Magic 100T over a Marzocchi single crown?

I've read the fork thread, which has been interesting, I wish I understood suspension like PMK!

Even as a light team (<280lb), would a Magic 100T be preferred over say a 55ATA?


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

phill77 said:


> Even as a light team (<280lb), would a Magic 100T be preferred over say a 55ATA?


I cannot comment on the Magic 100T, but we are using the 55ATA on our ECDM (picture on the ECDM thread - green bike black fork). We've had good luck with the 55ATA. My only complaint is the fork gets a little "sticky" sometimes. Its generally pretty plush, but I think this is a problem with air forks in general. I really like the 20mm thru axle (quick release).

We're about 270lbs without camelbaks etc.

Also - big fans of the Crossmark 2.25.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

I'm just a grumpy old man that has been a suspension tuner / geek since the times when dirt bikes were our best hobby and girls were nothing but problems.

Dirt bikes, mountain bikes and other cool grown up toys are still fun, girls can be too, but can be problems also.

Does the phrase "are you pedaling?" echo to anyone.

Seriously, I know I am very lucky, I my girl (long time wife) as my stoker. I also know from AORTA, that there are a few others with their own great stokers.

As for the fork on your new bike, Alex may not like going inside and tinkering as much as I do. He does however have a great perspective on forks, and we have spoken many times about tandem forks. He will sell what works well, is capable of being used or abused by a tandem team. The forks are a somewhat frustrating item as the selection is not quite as many as for single bikes.

Saying that, I would put some consideration into Alex's recommendation BUT, also you should consider that warranty may be a relevant concern. You should be certain that whatever you buy has adequate support for the UK.

I would suspect this will put Marzocchi possibly as a better choice than the WB 100.

By the way, are you getting a 26" wheel or 29" wheel ECDM?

PK


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## phill77 (Aug 31, 2008)

I'll speak to my dealer about their opinion of the 55ATA. I know they sell hardtail tandems with some sort of Marzocchi forks on, so I'll try and have a go on a set. They are favourite at the moment though. Think I'll stick a note on the fork thread incase it jogs some forum lurkers in to posting.

I've not made my mind up on frame size yet either. I'm about 5'10" and my wife is about 5'5".
We demo'd a 19/16 and I would think we need a 17/16, but in my head it seems the rear should be smaller. Debbie was fine on the back, even though our bike is only 13" C-T at the back.
Is there any practical problems with having a 14" rear instead of a 16", like shock or bottle cage access?

I am planning on going for 26" wheels, I've never ridden on 29" wheels. Is there actually any advantage, or is it just another fashion thing?

Wheels will be the next tricky decision after forks. I want the lightest wheels practical, because we are not exactly the most powerful team, and I don't have a history of breaking things.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

phill77 said:


> I'll We demo'd a 19/16 and I would think we need a 17/16, but in my head it seems the rear should be smaller. Debbie was fine on the back, even though our bike is only 13" C-T at the back.
> Is there any practical problems with having a 14" rear instead of a 16", like shock or bottle cage access?
> 
> I am planning on going for 26" wheels, I've never ridden on 29" wheels. Is there actually any advantage, or is it just another fashion thing?
> ...


The Ventana 14" rear is actually a 15" rear due to the shock linkage placement. If she's 5'5, she'd more likely fit the 16" rear better. The other measurement you need to consider is the distance between your bb spindle and your saddle top; that will determine how much seatpost extension you have. You're sort of between sizes height-wise, so this might be a good thing to check before deciding on frame size. What does your dealer say about the sizing?

Oh yes, there's definitely an advantage to 29" wheels, even more so on tandems. The exception would be if you were riding very rough technical trails with lots of logs and rocks and drops; then the smaller wheels would be stronger and handle a bit better at crawling speeds. On most other surfaces, the 29" wheel is probably an advantage.

Wheels? Remember that light isn't any good if you can't finish the ride. Tandems = twice the weight and twice the torque, lots more front end push and no hopping over obstacles. IOW, to quote Mr. Bontrager: Strong, light, cheap, pick any two.


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## phill77 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Christmas comes early...*

Doesn't quite fit under the tree, so I get to ride it now!










Just to neatly close the thread, this is what I picked up last week:

17/16" Frame in Cosmic Orange
Marzocchi 4X RC3 forks
Hope Pro II hubs / DT Alpine spokes / Mavic XC717 32 hole rims *
Maxxis Cross Mark 2.1 tyres
Middleburn 24/36/48 chainset with Shimano UN54 BB
Magura Louise disc brakes
Shimano XT shifters / mechs / spds / 11-32 cassette
Sram chains
Hope headset and stem
Easton bars and posts
Ergon grips
Ritchey and Bioflex saddles

* wheels should have been XM719 with a DT 540 rear hub. Wrong width was supplied and I couldn't wait for the correct replacement.
I'll see how I get on with the narrow rims, but I suspect they will get swapped out when I have ridden it on some hard trails next summer.

Weighs virtually the same as our old rigid tandem at around 43lb.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Very Nice!
A Merry Christmas indeed!

I really like the color.
Wow, 43# pounds is nice. Ours is 48. But we've got a double-crown fork (Marz Jr T.) and heavier rims (Mavic 521). Otherwise it looks like a similar build.
:thumbsup:


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

phill77 said:


> Doesn't quite fit under the tree, so I get to ride it now!


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

is 24x32 a low enough gearing for you Phill?


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## phill77 (Aug 31, 2008)

Tjaard said:


> is 24x32 a low enough gearing for you Phill?


So far it has been ok, but 36x32 on the middle ring is harder than I'd like sometimes - perhaps we just need to get fitter!

We live in a pretty flat part of the UK, around home we rarely use the inner ring.
Until we get away to somewhere with a bit more altitude I won't really know.

My thinking was that if we can't ride it in 24x32, we probably couldn't in 24x34. I didn't want to drop to a smaller ring size because I wanted to keep a 46 ring for the road miles we have to do.

Horses for courses really though...


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