# Broken Ventana



## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Long story short, Pat and I broke our beloved ECDM. Big props go out to Sherwood Gibson, Teresa Franco, and Alex Nutt for making the repair process quick and painless for us.( All handled under warranty) This is our bike of choice and although we have others nothing is as fun to ride as the Snot Rocket. Go Ventana and MTB Tandems! #1 in customer service.:thumbsup:
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## cr45h (Jan 13, 2007)

yikes, glad to hear the warranty process was handled appropriately.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Whoa!

Hope you didn't have to walk too far. Not too bad for a catastrophic failure, all things considered.

Best wishes getting back in the game asap.

Mike


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

One thing I forgot to mention is the tandem is being repaired this week and being shipped back early next week. A day to put it back together and I expect to be back in the woods by the first weekend in March. We are in NJ. Considering Ventana is in California I think thats excellent service! We were on the road today with a steady 20 mph head wind (gusting to 25)most of the 2.5 hour ride.:madman: Not nearly as much fun as the Snot Rocket.
Ed and Pat


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## marley mission (Nov 25, 2011)

godspeed snotrocket:cornut:


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Sometimes these things happen. More personal company like Ventana and MTBTandems.com let results often happen in a reasonable time.

If this were a single from a big company there are horror stories of huge downtimes while waiting for a new frame.

PK


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

No doubt about it Paul. Dealing with small family owned and operated companies and ethical business people are what made this country great. As an older guy I am very sad to see this as a fading trend.. As you said had it been a big company I would imagine we would hope to have it resolved by summer.
Ed


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

marley mission said:


> godspeed snotrocket:cornut:


Thanks Marley!...I see you have been riding Allaire and Clayton with your daughter.We would be happy to give you the tour de Allaire as soon as we are up n runnin again.Clayton is a fun little park also. We did our road ride from there yesterday.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Just received my tracking number. Its up to FedEx now.We are very anxious to get our Snot Rocket back. Thanks again, Ventana!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Just remind your wife...she broke the bike since that is her end...

That's how I explain flat tires, I tell Jeanne that's your end of the bike, you fix it. 

Needless to say, she gets the tools tube and stuff out, I get dirty. and if it's a flat in the dark, we would be comical to hear. Hold the light where I can see what I'm doing...did you hear that...I need light, don't worry about the sounds they won't get you.

PK


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

After talking with Sherwood about the repair I assured Pat that he was beefing up "her" bottom bracket shell, beefing up"her" seat tube and beefing up the weld attaching "her" seat tube to Bottom bracket. Its amazing how such a simple statement can be mis interpeted and how easily some people take offense.LOL.
Ed
PS- down by you guys I'm with Jeanne on the noises in the dark.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Ventana is an awesome bike company, one which alot of other bike companies could learn from.
Also, nice bike, my first EDCM had a very similar paint, my current El Testigo is all stealth black, which is 180° from the first one.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Jeff. Obviously I couldn't agree more about Ventana.
Ed and Pat
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## tsetsaf (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow! This same thing happened to our El Testigo last year. Our failure was much worse than yours sending the stoker to the dirt. luckily we were simply cruising along a flat section of trail at a snails pace having just completed a nasty rocky decent. Sherwood fixed it, for several hundred bucks, and noted that the frame was cracked for a long while before the failure (you will notice these as the darker colored breaks in the picture).

The weakest place on these tandems is that rear bottom bracket shell due to the massive amount of rotational stresses. He beefed up that area, the frame was noticeably heavier, repainted the whole thing and returned her looking brand new. Definitely a reminder to all not to ignore little creaking noises.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

WOW!!!! You're not kidding. Your failure wins!:eekster: Broken top tube also. Ours failed after a fast,long descent with ledges and waterbars. We were back on the flats and cruing at very low speed. No crash involved in ours Just a "What the?" Sherwood did a similar thing to ours in beefing up that area. We couldn't be happier.
Ed and Pat
the Snot Rocket


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Our Ventana has been taunting me with a clicking sound from down there somewhere. Guess it's time to pull the cranks and be certain of no cracks.

The way the stoker BB shell failed is not that surprising considering the loads in that area. Regardless of the brand, that is a lot happening on just a tiny bit of metal.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

PMK said:


> Our Ventana has been taunting me with a clicking sound from down there somewhere. Guess it's time to pull the cranks and be certain of no cracks.


If you have a cracked stoker's BB, you will be very likely to see it just by flipping the bike over and inspecting the area around and under the lower pivot. Powdercoat will reveal all.

FWIW, we had the same issue as the green El Testigo, but I caught it much earlier during an after-trip cleaning. Not the same issue as the Snot Rocket. Ours also did not make sounds (clicking or otherwise).


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanks for the flip over tip. Ironically, our ECDM is often inverted prior to a ride to make the fork work better. I have looked a few times but will give it a real good look next week.

I also plan to remove the cranks for better access since I also plan to do an Eddy Current inspection. This is, for me, a lazier way to see what can't sometimes be seen. I might as well since I have the equipment at home in my airframe structures tools.

Besides, I'm old and would need my glasses to find the crack if it is there.

PK


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## CaptainHaddock (Mar 3, 2012)

giff07 said:


> Long story short, Pat and I broke our beloved ECDM. Big props go out to Sherwood Gibson, Teresa Franco, and Alex Nutt for making the repair process quick and painless for us.( All handled under warranty) This is our bike of choice and although we have others nothing is as fun to ride as the Snot Rocket. Go Ventana and MTB Tandems! #1 in customer service.:thumbsup:
> Ed and Pat Gifford
> the Snot Rocket tandem


The thing that I think is crazy is that (in theory), the weld is stronger than the frame material. So for the frame to fail at the weld would (in theory) speak to a problem in the welding process. Guess it was a good think it failed when it did, rather than in some crazy technical.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

For that failure we had (same as the El Testigo), this is what it looks like in the early stages. Fracture looks to start under the pivot along that 90° CNC cut along the top of the stoker BB shell. I noticed the cracked powdercoat along the backside of the shell, where it would be exposed to view with the bike flipped (or, in my case, on a stand with the rear wheel removed with me sitting on the ground).

Picture shows everything removed and the powdercoat buzzed with a wire wheel - done to verify the crack was also in the metal before I called Ventana. No idea how many rides it had been like that, nor how many more it would have taken for it to fail El Testigo style.

Happily riding the 4130 these days.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

As a quick follow up...I did take some time and flipped the bike upside down. 

Inspected visually, no defects noted.

Inspected quickly with the eddy current machine, which will "see through" paint and other finishes. No defects with that method either.

Admittedly though, I did not pull the cranks, but the eddy current probe was able to get into the confined spaces. I will pull those cranks and be more thorough when time permits.

PK


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