# DIY reflector MCE



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

I just got some random reflectors from DX I ordered a while ago. I ordered a few smaller ones as well but the 35 mm reflectors got me thinking....

I made the bracket up out of some spare 3mm Al. It is held on with a circlip which is surprisingly solid. I will attatch the heat sink with some AA along with the bracket to try and get rid of a little bit of heat.

For the front, i found these which i will epoxy to the front.

If i use a bare MCE, I should be able to make a super light weight helmet light and the 35 mm reflector should give a fairly tight/punchy beam.

I will run the driver in-line and probably attach it to the back of the helmet with a switch inline somewhere also.

I am just waiting for the MCE to turn up now!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Nice minimalistic light there Looks a bit like an old miners light needs a candle fitting . 

Mmm I have some bare MCE ordered and am wondering what they are going to be like to work with .

How you going to wire it .


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> :thumbsup: Nice minimalistic light there Looks a bit like an old miners light needs a candle fitting .
> 
> Mmm I have some bare MCE ordered and am wondering what they are going to be like to work with .
> 
> How you going to wire it .


Probably with sweat on my brow and my tounge sticking out the corner of my mouth as I try not to stuff it up!!!

Thinking 2s2p although (edit) 4p would be even easier....

It sure does look like an old miners lamp.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Probably with sweat on my brow and my tounge sticking out the corner of my mouth as I try not to stuff it up!!!
> 
> Thinking 2s2p although series would be even easier.....
> 
> It sure does look like an old miners lamp.


Nice. 1 question, when you say 2s2p what want said exactly, could you put a little schematic picture, please?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## PCC (Sep 5, 2005)

ocean breathes salty said:


> I just got some random reflectors from DX I ordered a while ago.


Did the heatsink/plug thing come with the reflector? I looked at the DX site but it does not show the heatsink/plug, just the reflector.

I really like that setup. Minimalist and should be a blazingly bright light when you are done with it.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

PCC said:


> Did the heatsink/plug thing come with the reflector? I looked at the DX site but it does not show the heatsink/plug, just the reflector.
> 
> I really like that setup. Minimalist and should be a blazingly bright light when you are done with it.


Surprisingly, yes, it did come with the reflector and pill. It didn't show it in the picture when i went back to the site to have a look as well.

Later on, I noticed that gillestugan didn't get them when he ordered them from DX though

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=5170456&postcount=165

Another riddle in the DX lottery


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

msxtr said:


> Nice. 1 question, when you say 2s2p what want said exactly, could you put a little schematic picture, please?
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


Hi msxtr... I think you describe 2s2p as 2s + 2s - same thing really.

I think this schematic is right for 2s2p but someone please correct me if i am wrong. 4p seems even easier as you don't have to have the pesky wire around the outside of the emitter.


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Cool miner style light, and about as simple as I have seen. You may have the lightest MC-E build yet. Also, if you wanted to cover the front and protect the LED and reflector surface, I think DX sells glass discs.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Haha, congratulations for getting the pill, it's like winning at lottery. Isn't that DX in an nutshell. 
Your build looks great. So simple yet so good looking. Even better if the heat sink was anodized in a colour matching your helmet, like pink. (just kidding)
Will be interesting to see how it handles the heat.


The wiring in the picture is correct.
Regarding the reflector: I used a 0,3mm spacer between the reflector and the emitter for best beam.

Are you sure you want the 33mm lens?I rather have a larger one to be able to seal from the outside of the rim. Kai aslo has nice coated ones which are sold separately. I have 37.8mm X1.5mm DX lenses if you want one.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

MSXTR

I think I know what you mean about 2S 2S. Two constant current drivers, with two separate batterys each wired to 2 MC-E dies. Probably a good solution for the MC-E with chap DX parts.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Or cheap driver from Kai. This one (2982) is a very good buck driver when driven up to 700mA. Planning on using two for the MC-E with adjustable brightness and automatic heat regulation with a PTC. (Have not tested the heat regulation yet, only calculated...)


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Hi msxtr... I think you describe 2s2p as 2s + 2s - same thing really.
> 
> I think this schematic is right for 2s2p but someone please correct me if i am wrong. 4p seems even easier as you don't have to have the pesky wire around the outside of the emitter.


Hi, yes you are right, 2s2p= 2s+2s how I thought 

Thanks for the pic.

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

gillestugan said:


> Are you sure you want the 33mm lens?I rather have a larger one to be able to seal from the outside of the rim. Kai aslo has nice coated ones which are sold separately. I have 37.8mm X1.5mm DX lenses if you want one.


I ordered the 33mm lens just the other day so i will have a look at it when it turns up and see what i can do with it. The outer end of the reflector has a nice flat surface and if my measurements are correct, I should be able to epoxy it to that surface. At least, that is the plan at the minute.. If that fails, i will move on to bigger lenses as this light is pretty cheap so i can afford to stuff it up a few times.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

I have just finished this build and have successfully bench tested. 

Big thanks go to Ktronik for his deft soldering (best in town) and help with the driver! 

As a refresher, it is running a 2S2P M bin MCE off a Kennan driver at 1 amp (500ma per die). The MCE was a bare emitter which we mounted on a copper slug to give enough stand off so as not to short the MCE terminals on the pill. 

The driver is in an external housing (shortened DX torch body) in line with a simple on off switch on the Vin.

The reflector gives a very tight beam (for an MCE) but has the smallest little doughnut in the middle. It is a million times tighter than the Boom SS that I have in the duster so should be just what I am looking for in a helmet light. 

Newby warning: This is definitely on the limit for cooling! Without the little RC car heat sink it got hot within 10 second of being switched on. With the RC car heat sink it takes a minute or so in still air. So long as i keep moving, it should be OK. I don't know that i would make one of these and give it to a friend as I am not sure what the MCE longevity is going to be. 

I will have a crack at doing some beam shots although it is swelteringly hot here at the moment so I don't know if i can be bothered.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


> I have just finished this build and have successfully bench tested.
> 
> Big thanks go to Ktronik for his deft soldering (best in town) and help with the driver!


:thumbsup: No probs buddy, glad it all runs...I take it you DID add the copper slugs to the PT4105 chip on the driver??? its the only real problem with this cheap KD driver as its driven over spec...sadly efficiency suffers due to this fact. To make it better you would have to lower the driver current via the on board SMT 'sence' resistor...but we could not have that now could we... 

BEAMSHOTS!!!!! We demand!!!

K


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

ktronik said:


> :thumbsup: No probs buddy, glad it all runs...I take it you DID add the copper slugs to the PT4105 chip on the driver??? its the only real problem with this cheap KD driver as its driven over spec...sadly efficiency suffers due to this fact. To make it better you would have to lower the driver current via the on board SMT 'sence' resistor...but we could not have that now could we...
> 
> BEAMSHOTS!!!!! We demand!!!
> 
> K


I AA'd the slugs onto the chip and onto an Al disc at the other end. The AA hadn't quite set as i was assembling so it was jammed into the housing and the mechanical pressure held it while the AA set.

I just ran a visual comparison against a twin R2 helmet light I have been using and it is brighter and the corona looks more usable than the spot optics in the R2 light. Happy days.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

Very good then...just checking...  

K


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

That sounds great!
If you have some space left in the driver box I would recommend you to use two PT4105 drivers. You can then run each 2s string on a separate driver, which enables you to adjust current in each driver to a much more healthy level. They run great up to 800mA. At 500mA you can get an efficiency of over 90%. Not bad for such a cheap driver.
It is dimmable with a pot, or you can add a fixed resistor to limit output. This driver is my first choice in many led projects as it is very cheap and versatile. You should actually even be able to make it temperature regulating by exchanging one of the resistors (the R2) with a PTC thermistor. 
EDIT: this also requires one extra resistor between output and the pin the R2 is connected to. 

If you place a 0,2-0,3mm spacer between the led an the reflector you will get rid of most of the doughnut. Of course you will lose some lumens, but only minimal as the output is very low that far out to the sides. I was not able to see any difference in brightness when I did.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

I agree, 2 drivers would be much better, & a PTC thermistor would be extra brownie points... :thumbsup: 

Thanks for the tip on the spacer for the MCE I will try that on my 3 MCE dyno light...its has adjustable copper slugs so would work quite well...something I was meaning to play around with...

K


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Right.. You had better LOVE these photos.

I got off the lounge in this heat to do them and was summarily devoured by mosquito's!!
Have you ever tried to hold a light still for 4 seconds while you are being rather quickly drained of blood!

anyway.. enough whinging here we go:

No socks tonight... I ran out of hands carrying all the lights..


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

on my dodgy laptop screen it doesn't look that much better than the R2s but I am guessing that in reality there is more throw but less of a hotspot? Am I correct?
Still much better than the boom versions anyway!

What driver is that? is the the one that gillestugan linked to? here?

those drivers look good but there are a few user reviews saying they had problems. Is that just because they are being overdriven?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

tobymack said:


> on my dodgy laptop screen it doesn't look that much better than the R2s but I am guessing that in reality there is more throw but less of a hotspot? Am I correct?


The hot spot isn't quite as intense but is wider. You can notice it on the trees where there is much more of the trunks illuminated with the MCE vs R2's. The biggest advantage this build gives me is weight saving, it probably weighs half of my r2 build and my neck is going to be thankful.



> What driver is that? is the the one that gillestugan linked to? here?
> 
> those drivers look good but there are a few user reviews saying they had problems. Is that just because they are being overdriven?


It is the first time I have used one of these drivers so I will see how they last


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Right.. You had better LOVE these photos.


Yep, I do LOVE those photos. That's an awesome, minimalist build, salty!


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Is that reflector actually solid aluminum? How well does the MC-E fit?


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

Now thats commitment!! Great work Salty!!... also the loss of blood will make you lighter as well... :thumbsup: 

Toby: Yep thats the driver, its over spec & the chip cooks...I have had no probs with the ones I have been using as I add copper slugs to the top of the chip...but really need to lower the drive current for better eff...

K


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## tobymack (Nov 12, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> The hot spot isn't quite as intense but is wider. You can notice it on the trees where there is much more of the trunks illuminated with the MCE vs R2's. The biggest advantage this build gives me is weight saving, it probably weighs half of my r2 build and my neck is going to be thankful.
> 
> It is the first time I have used one of these drivers so I will see how they last


Now I have got home and used a decent monitor I can see what you mean. Very nice 

On the driver, in case anyone is interested the dealextreme SKU07425 uses the same PT4105 device (with a completely standard cct) but has a piggybacked 5 mode controller.
DX state it goes to 8.4V but I've just tried one at up to 12V and it works fine, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't go to the full 18V unless there is something on the controller board that doesn't like it.

EDIT: btw. the driver in question is the one hanging off the side of the light shown here


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*There is a lot of love in this thread.*

:winker: They are great shots salty and I luv them lots :winker:

Nice beam from the DX one , might have to settle in for the longwait and order a couple .

Great work too in the interests of DIY lighting glad we dont have mossies , too bloody cold for em .


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

kuksul08 said:


> Is that reflector actually solid aluminum? How well does the MC-E fit?


The reflector is solid metal of some description although I am not quite sure what it is. Around the edges it looks a little like brass??. You don't need to mod the base at all, the MCE fits right in and there is plenty of room on the pill for it to fit.

If i was doing it again, i would probably get the MCE star mounted with individually addressable dies and trim it down so that it fits on top of the pill.

I will post a few more build pics when i tidy it up a little. It is a mess of wires at the moment.


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

tobymack said:


> those drivers look good but there are a few user reviews saying they had problems. Is that just because they are being overdriven?


It has been sold in many versions. Current version is very reliable when not being overdriven. Im using a few in home lighting applications driven at 12V 24hours/day, I also have one in a 3XSSC P4 light driven at 800mA from a 14,8V battery and one in a 2xXR-E driven at 750mA from 7,4V. Havent had any problems so far. Problem is that it comes overdriven from when bought from kai.
A lot of information of how to fix this and/or make it dimmable is in this thread at CPF.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*New reflectors from Fraen!!!!*

Hi, Fraen have done 2 MR11 refectors for MC-E leds

13,5º










32º










Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Slow progress with this light. Still tinkering to optimize it. Since the beam gets a large doughnut when the pill is screwed all the way in, i needed a stand off so that i could get everything nice and tight with the pill only done up half way.

With all the torches i have cut up lately, I have heaps of the rubber switch boots lying around and recycled one to take up some space. It also acts as a handy electrical insulator to ensure there are no shorts.










Next i will fit a small heat sink to the back of the pill to try and handle the heat a little better. I will wait until i can get to my old man's bench grinder rather than using files however.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*looking for inspiration*

So here is a shot of the driver housing with switch that i need to mount to the helmet. It will sit near the back of the helmet in line with the light (about 10 cm away).

The only problem is that I can't figure out how to go about doing it 

I am really looking for something very simple that weighs next to nothing and looks nice and neat. Does anyone have any brilliant ideas???


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*stick with what you know*

I couldn't come up with another way to mount the driver housing so ended up doing the same as the light head. I have butchered some Al bar to fit into the back of the pill to try and soak up a little more heat.

Overall I think this is the end of the line for this particular light.. it is has ended up heavier than i would have liked (probably about 150g but haven't weighed it yet). It will still be my primary helmet light but thank god it will be dark so that no-one can see it as It should probably be in the fuglies.


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*question.*

Love your light. but I'm curious why you didn't put the controller in your pack with your battery?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

texas said:


> Love your light. but I'm curious why you didn't put the controller in your pack with your battery?


Well, 2 months down the line. I can now answer that question..... I wanted to be able to switch it off easily without having to fish for the switch in a bag or jersey pocket. SInce it is so questionable on heat, I didn't want to leave it on while stationary.

I have done a few more rides with this light now as the days start to shorten. I can safely say this little MCE won't last too long. There is a pronounced tint shift and corresponding drop in light output after the light has been on for a few minutes. It is clearly cooking the LED so I think I will chalk this housing up as a failure and move on.

I will probably pull out the MCE and make a better heat sinked housing and also recycle the driver housing. I have a spare MCE optic around here somewhere, so I will see how that goes in some kind of torch housing.


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## wizbru (Feb 7, 2009)

Hi

Love the switch unit and your knuckle duster lights - Could you please give a bit more detail on how you made them?

Thanks


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

wizbru said:


> Hi
> 
> Love the switch unit and your knuckle duster lights - Could you please give a bit more detail on how you made them?
> 
> Thanks


Sorry for the delayed reply, I am floating around Vietnam on hols at the moment. Crazy Crazy place.

1. Buy cheapy lights from DX as linked in my thread. If you want to keep everything the same colour and keep the anodizing, you will have to purchase a couple of sets. Alternatively you can strip off the andozing to get a clean metal finish like I did.

2. You end up using the little torches backwards. So cut them off to a lenght that will allow enough room to fit your heat sink and wiring +/- driver.

3. Push out the switch assembly from the end cap - you might need to be forceful - after a while my thumbs got sore from this and I found the best method was to use a socket smaller than the diameter of the hole, sit the endcap attatched to the torch body on top and hit it with a rubber mallet. They pop right out. I ended up filing out the front endcap a little to make sure it wasn't blocking any light.

If you are making a "duster" style light - I cut the duster shape out of a stip of Al that was the same width as the little space between the kunrling and the end cap. You will see what I mean when you have one in your hand. I used a drill press and hole saw to make the holes but in an earlier edition, I was able to get something that would suffice by using a normal bit and playing connect the dots with a file - time consuming but it worked.

4. Take another end cap from another torch body and file the thread down so that you can push it into what now becomes the back of the light. The tighter the fit the better.

5. Get some round Aluminium stock and file down until it fits tightly inside the torch body to act as the heat sink and thermal pathway to the outside of the body. I drilled out the back of the heat sink to save a little on weight. My heat sinks were around 10mm long.

6. Drill holes all the way through the Al stock to pass wires through to the LED.

7. AA (artic alumina) the LED star to the heat sink.

8. Depending on what optics you use - I used cheapy DX ones, You will need to file down the optic holder to get it to fit in the end cap. You need to take a lot off it.

9. Wire up and assemble. You can use the switch if you have room, which I have done in a couple of lights.

The switch box assembly was done exactly the same way, just in miniature.

Good luck


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