# Hand Fatigue



## AllOver (Aug 4, 2006)

So I went to my first bike park yesterday (Trestle MTB park). Had an awesome time. Only problem, after about 5 runs I had to stop, my hands were killing me. It wasn't from blisters, my hands were just damn sore. I don't think I was gripping the bars too hard, but maybe I did unconsciously and didn't notice. Anyone run into this before?


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## psycho_sw (Apr 20, 2011)

it happend me today, i just changed to a direct stem so i think that was the main problem for me.


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## joedirt24 (Jan 30, 2007)

Mine don't get sore they go numb (carpel tunnel). I have to shake them out. It Sucks. Try putting more weight on your legs.


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## whoopwhoop (Nov 7, 2008)

I had this issue when I was grabbing to much brake all the time. Learned to one finger brake and control my speed better and the pain pretty much stopped. Either way though, a good day of riding will get your hands sore.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

whoopwhoop said:


> I had this issue when I was grabbing to much brake all the time. Learned to one finger brake and control my speed better and the pain pretty much stopped. Either way though, a good day of riding will get your hands sore.


yep......try braking harder and then the bike roll more without using brakes all the time


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## gladegp (Aug 21, 2007)

AllOver said:


> So I went to my first bike park yesterday (Trestle MTB park). Had an awesome time. Only problem, after about 5 runs I had to stop, my hands were killing me. It wasn't from blisters, my hands were just damn sore. I don't think I was gripping the bars too hard, but maybe I did unconsciously and didn't notice. Anyone run into this before?


I'd say more or less everyone runs into this. I'm having the same problems. Perhaps you're running a too stiff spring in your fork or your damping isn't good enough. Also try having a more relaxed grip on your handlebar. Don't hang in it, pulling it backwards. Try to stand more neutral. Brake less. But most of all bike more  If you do more resort biking you'll both get used to it and do less panic squeezing of your grips and you'll build muscles in your forearms.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

gladegp said:


> I'd say more or less everyone runs into this. I'm having the same problems. Perhaps you're running a too stiff spring in your fork or your damping isn't good enough. Also try having a more relaxed grip on your handlebar. Don't hang in it, pulling it backwards. Try to stand more neutral. Brake less. But most of all bike more  If you do more resort biking you'll both get used to it and do less panic squeezing of your grips and you'll build muscles in your forearms.


Yeah, it's an issue for everyone at some time, beginners get it a lot worse because they aren't used to dh and death-grip the bars and brakes.... even if you think you're not death-gripping, you might be... it takes a lot of practice to relax your grip and let the bike move around without forcing it, it is a learned technique like not riding your brakes. So the good news is, the better you get at riding the less your hands will hurt because your technique AND hand strength will both get better.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

whoopwhoop said:


> I had this issue when I was grabbing to much brake all the time. Learned to one finger brake and control my speed better and the pain pretty much stopped. Either way though, a good day of riding will get your hands sore.


This! Until I learned the one-finger brake technique my hands were always worked.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## enduro (Jan 30, 2004)

What the other guys say, plus check the reach on your brake levers and adjust it in slightly. Also speed us your rebound 1-2 clicks. This helped me when my hands and forearms were getting really tired b/c the fork was packing up.


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## azdog (Nov 16, 2004)

Last year at Trestle I experienced the same thing and just went to the bar and gotta beer and I felt loose the rest of the day! This will happen. Last year I rode Keystone two days in a row and by time I got to Winter Park on the third I was beat. Definitely be conscious of your deathgrip and loosen up. Grab a tennis ball and at least once a day squeeze it 20 times for 3 reps or so.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

1-finger brake setup:
Move your brakes more inboard so only your trigger finger pulls at the end of the lever. AND, when you put your finger on the lever blade, it should still keep a good bit of it's natural curve. When you pull the lever in, it should almost bottom against the grip, minus maybe 1/8 to 1/4 in. When it's all the way in, the tip of your lever blade shouldn't be touching your "bird" finger in any way shape or form.

If you've been using two finger braking, this setup will give you back one of your two strongest fingers to hang onto the bar, and reduce your strain on your hand. Modern disc brakes are powerful enough you won't ever need two fingers.


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## downplease (Apr 7, 2010)

The Tech Tuesday article on Pinkbike: Setting up your cockpit (you'll have to search for it on there because I can't post links yet, sorry) helped me set up my brake levers so I get less hand and arm fatigue. Of course I still get arm and hand fatigue when I'm scared and holding on for dear life.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Funny, I was gonna start a thread on a similar topic. I'm a seasoned DH rider, but right now my hands hurt more than ever. I've spent 9 of the last 16 days riding lifts (Sol Vista, Whistler, and most recently Winter Park), and my hands are cooked. Anyone have any tricks for recovery (supplements, stretches, etc.)? My middle fingers (the worst) are both swollen and tough to bend. I've got a race this weekend in T-ride.

I don't death grip the bars either....(no gloves and ESI grips is my preferred setup)


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## induction (Apr 12, 2010)

I have the same problem. What I've found that has worked is using a strong, fast, jerky or choppy motion (or a combination of all previously stated...switching it up is key) while I "Punch the Clown". The biggest problem I have now is my "bar" is only big enough for one hand at a time...:sad::sad:. That and finding time to ride in between "workouts"! LOL


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## AllOver (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks for the replies all. I am doing one finger braking. I should have thought of this before, but the brakes on the rental bike were crap. I could pull the brake lever to the bar and it would just barely lock the front tire. 

It's not like I was riding the brakes all the time, but I probably could improve in braking harder. Also could improve on pulling back on the bar, don't hang on it. 

So I think it was crappy brakes, need to improve braking/grip technique, and muscling up my forearms. Good stuff folks, thanks.


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## robncircus (Jan 13, 2011)

Just curious from this crowd. I've been learning some 1-finger style brakng. A buddy was told that motoX racers typicall use their middle finger for 1 finger in an effort to keep the thumb and forefinger loop closed. I've been watching a lot of DH videos, and everyone is using the forefinger. Does anyone use a middle finger? Advantages/disadvantages? For me, it eliminated some ringfinger pain I was having. 

Cheers

rob


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

robncircus said:


> Just curious from this crowd. I've been learning some 1-finger style brakng. A buddy was told that motoX racers typicall use their middle finger for 1 finger in an effort to keep the thumb and forefinger loop closed. I've been watching a lot of DH videos, and everyone is using the forefinger. Does anyone use a middle finger? Advantages/disadvantages? For me, it eliminated some ringfinger pain I was having.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rob


I use my middle finger for the clutch when I race my 125 but for brakes I am a 2 finger guy, mountain bike or motocross. But using the middle finger for the clutch does help like you said becuase my thumb and forefinger are closed making it easier to hold on the bars.


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## robncircus (Jan 13, 2011)

brent878 said:


> I use my middle finger for the clutch when I race my 125 but for brakes I am a 2 finger guy, mountain bike or motocross. But using the middle finger for the clutch does help like you said becuase my thumb and forefinger are closed making it easier to hold on the bars.


Interesting thanks. I might try using the forefinger on my ride tomorrow and see how it goes. The middle finger logic seemed to make sense for some reason.


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## chrissa (Dec 17, 2006)

robncircus said:


> Just curious from this crowd. I've been learning some 1-finger style brakng. A buddy was told that motoX racers typicall use their middle finger for 1 finger in an effort to keep the thumb and forefinger loop closed. I've been watching a lot of DH videos, and everyone is using the forefinger. Does anyone use a middle finger? Advantages/disadvantages? For me, it eliminated some ringfinger pain I was having.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> rob


Yes, for the last 12 years (since I got my first set of disc brakes) I've been using middle fingers only. I prefer using the index fingers to hold onto the bars. Middle finger is longer, and I get a tiny bit more leverage with it. For DH, I use Saints, 8" rotor front, 6" rotor back. That all gives me a great balance of power and control (and I only weigh about 170lbs geared up which helps).

For the hand fatigue and arm pump, weight lifting really helped, especially lots of pulling exercises with a closed grip. I never get hand cramps now (but it took years in the gym to get that way).

Chris.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

NoahColorado said:


> .(no gloves and ESI grips is my preferred setup)


Might be too thin... thin grips hurt my hands.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

I like big grips too. Small grips make my fingers ache.

Sadly there are very few options bigger than the usual 34mm.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=635435


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## serious14_guy (Jul 5, 2011)

I had this issue worse than normal on the weekend, but it was really cold and rainy so I think that may have contributed to the cramping.
I should try 1 finger braking though


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

NoahColorado said:


> Funny, I was gonna start a thread on a similar topic. I'm a seasoned DH rider, but right now my hands hurt more than ever. I've spent 9 of the last 16 days riding lifts (Sol Vista, Whistler, and most recently Winter Park), and my hands are cooked. Anyone have any tricks for recovery (supplements, stretches, etc.)? My middle fingers (the worst) are both swollen and tough to bend. I've got a race this weekend in T-ride.
> 
> I don't death grip the bars either....(no gloves and ESI grips is my preferred setup)


ice them

get some gel padded gloves

make the first 3 inches of travel softer


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## azdog (Nov 16, 2004)

I used to middle finger brake for the longest time. After getting a lot of crap from buddies I finally switched to the index finger. I feel a lot more comfortable now braking this way and notice less overall cramping in my hands since I am more relaxed riding this way. Middle finger braking brings more stress to the middle of the palm.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Another thought:
I wonder if it could also be an indication of dehydration? When I ride Trestle, I always try to have a bottle of water at the base lift so I can hit it before going back up. Since I've been doing that, I've noticed cramping has been less. I'm also taking a daily dose of glucosamine sulfate and that's very noticeable in my ex-bump skier knees.


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## meeeeep (Apr 22, 2011)

I could never one-finger brake with Avid Elixir Rs. The calipers required too much force to engage with one finger effectively. My DH bike has Saints and it's not a problem at all.


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## daverach2478 (Oct 12, 2006)

Going 25-35mph down a mountain all day will do it. 

Once a year we go to Angelfire in NM. Just got back and it was awesome! First year, my finger "bones" hurt. Must have gotten tiny fractures because they hurt for 3 months. This year, I went for 2 days longer than last year and was totally fine.

Only thing I changed; started weight lifting and doubled biking saddle time for about 2 months before I left. I'm sure both strengthened my fingers/hands so it wasn't a problem at all this year.

One thing I did notice both times was my finger that has a ring on it was not sore at all. I'm guessing it's because all the force and bouncing around was distributed around the ring instead of one specific point where your finger contacts the grip.

A trick I learned this year was to grip with ALL fingers (including brake finger) when there was a stretch I knew I wouldn't use brakes....also stretching out my fingers in the middle of runs (on open or slow stretches of trail). That helped to distribute the abuse on the hands and give the karate grip a breather.


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## illnotsick (Mar 28, 2011)

I switched to hope brakes from avid and my hand pump went away. I would get the claw after a just a few runs, but on the new brakes i could ride all day with no issues


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## flynfrog (Feb 4, 2011)

hold on with your legs not your hands. Sounds weird but its one of the first things you learn riding moto. Try to control the bike more with your legs. I usually have bruises on my thighs from the seat. Also relax if you have a death grip on the bars you will wear out much quicker.


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## Johnny No.5 (Mar 20, 2008)

@Dave: Agreed, I use all 4 where I know I can and also open my hands up, extending my fingers, on any smooth, slower sections. Definitely helps but here I am 4 days after a two day trip to Snowshoe and the three main gripping finger on my right hand are just starting to heal. Definitely goon to start squeezing tennis balls to help strengthen my hands, and I do try to let the death grip loose on all but unfamiliar trails.


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## JefedelosJefes (Jun 30, 2004)

flynfrog said:


> hold on with your legs not your hands. Sounds weird but its one of the first things you learn riding moto. Try to control the bike more with your legs. I usually have bruises on my thighs from the seat. Also relax if you have a death grip on the bars you will wear out much quicker.


You hold onto a moto with your legs because it is like 250 lbs and the propulsion comes from the bike not the person. This is the same concept as riding a horse. On a bike you do NOT want to grip your seat with your thighs, this will point your knees inwards and put you in a very weak position. You want the bike free to move underneath you and your legs free to absorb impacts. You can use your saddle when cornering by resting the saddle on your inside leg so it is easier to hold the bike in a constant position especially when the bike is sliding.


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

JefedelosJefes said:


> You hold onto a moto with your legs because it is like 250 lbs and the propulsion comes from the bike not the person. This is the same concept as riding a horse. On a bike you do NOT want to grip your seat with your thighs, this will point your knees inwards and put you in a very weak position. You want the bike free to move underneath you and your legs free to absorb impacts. You can use your saddle when cornering by resting the saddle on your inside leg so it is easier to hold the bike in a constant position especially when the bike is sliding.


From what I've been learned you is correct sir!!! What would you recommend re: the OP and Hand (and Arm for me) fatigue.....for a newbie?


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## OneEyedHito (Jun 20, 2009)

Johnny No.5 said:


> ^^^ Agreed, I use all 4 where I know I can and also open my hands up, extending my fingers, on any smooth, slower sections. Definitely helps but here I am 4 days after a two day trip to Snowshoe and the three main gripping finger on my right hand are just starting to heal. Definitely goon to start squeezing tennis balls to help strengthen my hands, and I do try to let the death grip loose on all but unfamiliar trails.


Ditto here for the recovery from a few days at SS.....hands got so bad that at the bottom of the Race Course I couldn't pull the front brake.....the fatigue during runs is disheartening to say the least, and downright scary to say the most.....Granted you can probably see the white of my knuckles through my gloves..

A good pointer I have taken away from an earlier reply is not lean back so far, I know I do that way too much and need to get more center so I am not HOLDING my weight UP with my hands and arms.


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## flynfrog (Feb 4, 2011)

JefedelosJefes said:


> You hold onto a moto with your legs because it is like 250 lbs and the propulsion comes from the bike not the person. This is the same concept as riding a horse. On a bike you do NOT want to grip your seat with your thighs, this will point your knees inwards and put you in a very weak position. You want the bike free to move underneath you and your legs free to absorb impacts. You can use your saddle when cornering by resting the saddle on your inside leg so it is easier to hold the bike in a constant position especially when the bike is sliding.


Im not squeezing the bike with my legs but I do keep it in contact as you stated above. I should have been more clear when I typed that damn beer


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

ODI Rouge grips and dynaflex gyro hand trainer . http://www.amazon.com/Dynaflex-Sports-Plus-Wrist-Exerciser/dp/B000LRE01M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1310131474&sr=8-2

Never had hand fatigue since.

Never.


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Brake less and ride more. Your hands are probably just not used to the beating...


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## J-Ha (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree with what Pau11y said about moving the levers inboard and adjusting the reach to keep the lever just from bottoming out on the grip/ other fingers. I also have this set up on my xc bike which required me to swap the levers/ shifters (XT/ XT) and remove the shift indicators. A bit of work, but at least the bikes feel somewhat similar!


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

reviving this thread with a new question: has anyone tried silicone grips to help this issue? like this or similar : ESI SILICONE GRIPS

i have done things like better position, adjustment on brakes, and even got a brake upgrade. these things have helped a lot. main problem i think is that once it first happens its been a little bit of a nagging issue that doesnt get worse but hasnt completely gone away

i could probly use some fresh oil in my fork too


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

ride the biscuit said:


> reviving this thread with a new question: has anyone tried silicone grips to help this issue? like this or similar : ESI SILICONE GRIPS
> 
> i have done things like better position, adjustment on brakes, and even got a brake upgrade. these things have helped a lot. main problem i think is that once it first happens its been a little bit of a nagging issue that doesnt get worse but hasnt completely gone away
> 
> i could probly use some fresh oil in my fork too


You can keep looking for the golden goose of all products but until you learn one-finger (index) braking and keeping your hand grip relaxed you won't avoid hand fatigue. And, FWIW, Ruffians are the best grips ever. Adjusting the lever throw to fit your finger length makes a world of diff too - just amazes me at all the riders that have no clue what this is!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

+1 for the

proper lever position
index finger
ice and vitaminA
stretching between runs
not white nuckelin' things
strength exercises
good grips and gloves 

due to nerve damage in my hand, I have this numb shiat as an ongoing issue, so I will add

brakes bled so proper lever pull / extension
proper sized brakes / rotors for your weight and application
wrist brace - the thumb hole and strap type.
I use a padded glove for gravity - a mechanix impact with medium palm padding.
on "easy" sections, ie ones that will allow it, I "hook" my thumbs and open my hands so I'm palming the grips, even if it is only 5 seconds, takes a bit of the pressure off and helps delay / lesten the numbness.

and one last thing. After having my right hand blow off the grip mid-air last year, I'm considering hockey tape. :skep: A big wad like at the end of a stick. Should keep the fvcker on.ut:

good luck

michael


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> You can keep looking for the golden goose of all products but until you learn one-finger (index) braking and keeping your hand grip relaxed you won't avoid hand fatigue. And, FWIW, Ruffians are the best grips ever. Adjusting the lever throw to fit your finger length makes a world of diff too - just amazes me at all the riders that have no clue what this is!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


brake w 1 finger, already have ruffians, and use elixir crs with all the adjustability i could ask for (and yes, i have set it up correctly).

never had an issue with this until a few weeknds of big fast tech shuttle riding. since then it seems to be something that flares up after more dh oriented rides


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

and drink more


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## HelloMyNameIsSean (Sep 14, 2011)

I've only been "real" downhilling 3-4 times, but even at my local hike a bike trails, I used to have my hands go numb after one run. I guess the past 3-4 months, I've really worked on body positioning while riding. Everybody who taught me to ride told me, Down hill = ass over the rear tire. Needless to say that's incorrect, and only works for so long. Now that I keep my mass centered, everything else seems to be falling into place, and I'm getting a lot faster. It was only this past week when I pushing my back up for the 5th time that day that my hands hadn't gone numb or even sore yet.

I would just take all the advice given in here because it's all good, and see what works best for you. Your hands could still just be worked over from that one time, maybe they're still recovering.


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## Duece (Apr 18, 2010)

HelloMyNameIsSean said:


> I've only been "real" downhilling 3-4 times, but even at my local hike a bike trails, I used to have my hands go numb after one run. I guess the past 3-4 months, I've really worked on body positioning while riding. Everybody who taught me to ride told me, Down hill = ass over the rear tire. Needless to say that's incorrect, and only works for so long. Now that I keep my mass centered, everything else seems to be falling into place, and I'm getting a lot faster. It was only this past week when I pushing my back up for the 5th time that day that my hands hadn't gone numb or even sore yet.
> 
> I would just take all the advice given in here because it's all good, and see what works best for you. Your hands could still just be worked over from that one time, maybe they're still recovering.


Your right. Keep your chin over the stem, put the weight on your legs, and your arm pump will fade away!


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

If everything else is in order from suggestions above... Hydrate BEFORE you ride! if plain water isn't cutting it gatorade or salt water to help keep you hydrated, good hydration is key, I know a lot of guys like to have a beer or "loosen up" while riding and have a good time, this is not helping the keep you hydrated cause, I am not saying don't enjoy yourself, just be aware.

Also, BREATH and relax, if your body is low or lower than is ideal on oxygen the last places to get it are furthest out on our limbs.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

ronnyg801 said:


> Also, BREATH and relax, if your body is low or lower than is ideal on oxygen the last places to get it are furthest out on our limbs.


yeah this is something i work on, but not the culprit for me.

There seem to be two issues going on in this thread: pain and numbness. i get a pain that seems more like an arthritis ??? type pain that reoccurred after an initial time.

all the stuff mentioned has helped, but maybe i just havnt let it fully heal after the first time. if i end up trying those grips and it helps ill report back. it does seem like silicone could reduce hand vibrations

merry christmas!


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## dmx1 (Dec 24, 2008)

Move brakelevers inboard far enough, I have at least 40 mm between grip and clamp.
Angle of levers is important too, your hand should be inline with your arm.
This sounds like a thing everyone knows, but look at bikes and a lot of people still do it wrong.
On the easy stuff, I try to get all fingers on the bar for a couple of seconds, this helps a little too


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

ride the biscuit said:


> brake w 1 finger, already have ruffians, and use elixir crs with all the adjustability i could ask for (and yes, i have set it up correctly).
> 
> never had an issue with this until a few weeknds of big fast tech shuttle riding. since then it seems to be something that flares up after more dh oriented rides


If you're doing all that and you're also doing what dmx1 suggests then I'm thinking it may be related to carpel tunnel syndrome? You spend a lot of time on a computer for work? I got one of those mouse pads with the pad to elevate your wrist so you can keep it straight while using a mouse. Made a huge diff for me!

Good Luck,

G


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

I think it's funny how the guy complains about hand fatigue his FIRST TIME RIDING DH and people offer all kind of advice. That's like a 16 year old boy complaining he finished too fast the first time he banged a girl. You could spend all day jerking off to last longer, or just do it more and you'll naturally get better. Stop worrying about it either way.

Doesn't Trestle has like 2k+ vert descents? 5 runs is 10k feet. That's a lot your first day IMO anyways. Also, if hand fatigue is your only problem your first time riding DH, then you're not crashing enough.


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## mgs781 (Dec 10, 2007)

Start rock climbing. Indoor or out, once a week is all you need. Great cross training too. Haven't had arm pump in years since I starter climbing.

MGS


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## jakester29959 (Aug 30, 2011)

this always used to happen to me but after i started to do the 1 finger braking it went away


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