# Mid 90's Cars --- Fast(ish), Reliable & Cheap? Preferably RWD...



## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

This is going to be a stay at home Dad's car rather than an MTB car, but I thought I'd ask here just the same  

The car must have 4 doors and have very good to excellent reliability. I want a torquey motor and under 9 sec 0-60, but the faster the better. Fuel consumption isn't an issue (how unfashionable  ) but I don't want an SUV or Truck. RWD is a big priority, but I'd consider FWD.

Budget is around 6K, so I'm looking at mid 90's cars with around 130K miles.

What I've come up with so far:

(1) Lexus LS 400. I keep coming back to this car. RWD, V8 and great looks. Shouldn't be too hard to pick up a single owner, well maintained 94/95. These are supposedly one of the most solid reliable cars ever made.

(2) Infintiy Q45 93-95. Faster and sportier than the LS, but hard to come by and perhaps not as reliable.

(3) Acura RL... perfer the LS and a lot of these cars end up poorly maintained with fart can exhausts and 19" rims. Shame...

(4) Volvo 850 T6. Faster than the LS, but FWD. Reliably is good for a Volvo, but not as good as Toyota/Lexus. Turbo is a big plus since I'm at 5,000 ft and this car will sometimes see 12,000ft.

(5) Toyota Avalon. V6 RWD built on the LS400 platform. 

(6) Honda accord 3.2L. Fast, but FWD. Reliability & running costs should be great. A bit more than what I want to spend. If style was a color the accord would be beige.

American Cars?

I'm an Aussie and all I know about American cars is that historically they are unreliable. But I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. Any suggestions? Lots of RWD V8 American cars out there.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

Out of those cars, the Acura RL (there are PLENTY of clean examples out there that aren't ghetto-fied) or the LS400 would be my preference (there are plenty of ghetto-fied LS's too you know  ). 

BTW, The Avalon has always been FWD and is not based on the LS400 platform, it's based on a stretched Camry platform. The Avalon was introduced to fill the gap left by the Cressida's departure, which was a RWD car.


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Steve71 said:


> This is going to be a stay at home Dad's car rather than an MTB car, but I thought I'd ask here just the same
> 
> The car must have 4 doors and have very good to excellent reliability. I want a torquey motor and under 9 sec 0-60, but the faster the better. Fuel consumption isn't an issue (how unfashionable  ) but I don't want an SUV or Truck. RWD is a big priority, but I'd consider FWD.
> 
> ...


Volvo 850 - no t6, only t5. Manual turbo's are rare.
My thoughts on 850's. The non-turbo will give you almost no trouble for 200,000 miles. The glt's will give you slightly more (count on turbo rebuild around 120,000)
The t5R's (or later just R, and t5) are really fast, pretty reliable for such a fast car, but still, not the most reliable volvo.

Look for an 850 with <100,000 miles. Or just get the damn lexus, they are pretty good cars.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks guys. Looks like the LS400 is in the #1 spot then.. unless someone can suggest something from Detroit. Surely they made at least one reliable RWD car... but then again it'd have to be pretty impressive to top the LS.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

Honestly I'd suggest an ex-police car from a good dealer. You can get a 2002-2004 with <80K miles for < $6K. However, you certainly will lose the luxury of the LS400.

I have a 94 Mercury Grand Marquis that I use for light towing, and even autocross for fun. I got it for free, and it hasn't broken on me yet. 

The Lexus will have higher reliability though, although the parts may be higher in cost so... :shrug:


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## dadat40 (Jan 3, 2005)

I'd look into ford crown vic,mercury gran marquis, chevy caprice. all of those will will run well and last 200k easy. these are going to be old lady cars most of the time and ex cop cars also.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Steve71 said:


> Thanks guys. Looks like the LS400 is in the #1 spot then.. unless someone can suggest something from Detroit. Surely they made at least one reliable RWD car... but then again it'd have to be pretty impressive to top the LS.


There were no good RWD, V8 American cars made in the mid/late 90's. They are all very large boats made for old people. The only one that might be worth while was the Impala SS, but they are hard to find.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks guys, I'll look into those cars.


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

95 Mustang Cobra - 235hp - ran 13's quarter mile
96 Mustang Cobra - 305hp - ran mid to low 13's quarter mile with a good driver
Camaro/Firebird/Transam (from 1998 to 2003 is the most desireable) - Went 12.90's stock (I have seen this for myself)

Don't say that there are no good American RWD V8 cars. 

Just the above 3 are very easy to obtain, even easier to upgrade and install performance modifications to. They will probably be cheaper than your import v8/v6 cars.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

frdfandc said:


> 95 Mustang Cobra - 235hp - ran 13's quarter mile
> 96 Mustang Cobra - 305hp - ran mid to low 13's quarter mile with a good driver
> Camaro/Firebird/Transam (from 1998 to 2003 is the most desireable) - Went 12.90's stock (I have seen this for myself)
> 
> ...


None of those are 4-door


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## zelig (Nov 23, 2007)

None of those are available with four doors, though... (edit: dang, beaten to the punch!)

Avalon is a stretched Camry, not an LS.

Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura are statistically reliable, but when repairs come up it won't be cheap. And Q45s have expensive trans problems in some years.

Does this car need to be fun/interesting or will it be an appliance? The latter is the only way the Accord can be a contender. My vote is LS400 or Crown Vic with Ford performance "enhancements". If you don't mind spending a bit on tuning, you could put a Supra TT setup on a GS300. If you are entertained by comically large, consider a Caprice/Roadmaster.

Someone in this forum had a Ford CV built for the strip with a bike rack on it. (edit2: post 432 in the What's Your Ride thread)


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

As someone said before, the Crown Vic is a great 4-door RWD V8 American sedan. Low mile police cruisers can be had for a decent price and it is easy enough to source nicer leather interior goodies from the higher end models (Grand Marquis, Town Car, and civilian Crown Vics). Down here in FL (America's retirement community) you can find plenty of low mile civilian Crown Vics with TONS of options for dirt cheap. Granted you won't have the luxury of a Lexus, Acura, or Volvo...but you also won't have the inflated repair/maintenance bills associated with those "luxury" imports of this vintage.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

zelig said:


> Does this car need to be fun/interesting or will it be an appliance? The latter is the only way the Accord can be a contender. My vote is LS400 or Crown Vic with Ford performance "enhancements". If you don't mind spending a bit on tuning, you could put a Supra TT setup on a GS300. If you are entertained by comically large, consider a Caprice/Roadmaster.


Well I want something that's not frustrating to drive in heavy traffic, but offers a little driving pleasure when the opportunity presents itself. I hate 'appliance' cars. I drove a Lexus ES300 a while back and I couldn't get out of that car fast enough. The Accord would be much the same I guess.

My week-end car (wife's daily driver) is a manual 04 Forester XT. If we were going mod a car it would be the forester. 

I checked out most those mid to late 90's American v8'ss and they didn't seem to offer anything over the LS400 except repair costs. The crown vic PI's are still only 0-60 in 8sec.
The Chevy SS is a bit faster but I would have expected more from a 5.7L. Guess they are pretty heavy cars.


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## Otter (Feb 2, 2004)

Drive a Ford Taurus SHO. Front wheel drive, but fast fast fast.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

older bmw wagon. for RWD

we have a volvo 850 wagon fwd that is not fast. but comfy.

but look at mid 90s 850R wagons, or the v70r. they are fast. some are AWD. reliability is OK. make sure you have a good volvo mechanic around and you will be OK.

they are just nice cars.

I wouldnt get a crown vic. I also don't wear sweatpants around. Call me vain. I think America is getting uglier by the day.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

Old LS400's are ~8 second 0-60 cars too. None of the cars being discussed in your price range are actually fast IMO.

Older BMW's are fun to drive, but can be expensive and harder to work on in my opinion.

JH: how exactly does a crown vic compare to sweatpants? I don't wear sweatpants around but I'll drive my free grand marquis anywhere. Heck I don't even drive my "nicer" and more reliable cars very often anymore, I prefer driving the MGM around. Maybe that's just because I don't care what happens to it though


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Steve71 said:


> I'm an Aussie and all I know about American cars is that historically they are unreliable. But I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. Any suggestions? Lots of RWD V8 American cars out there.


hah, I would have thought youd be all over the commonwhore SS? :thumbsup:

(or I spit in your face for saying it that ford falcon  )


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Steve71 said:


> The Chevy SS is a bit faster but I would have expected more from a 5.7L. Guess they are pretty heavy cars.


The engine is detuned in the SS, only 275hp, but probably relatively easy to get more HP out of.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Otter said:


> Drive a Ford Taurus SHO. Front wheel drive, but fast fast fast.


I don't see a lot of these for sale in my area, but I might keep an eye out. Not especially fast (7.5 0-60), but the engine is supposed to be something very special. FWD is a turn off though..



jh_on_the_cape said:


> older bmw wagon. for RWD
> I wouldnt get a crown vic. I also don't wear sweatpants around. Call me vain. I think America is getting uglier by the day.


I'd prefer a nice looking car, but I'd be willing trade looks for a substantial step up in performance... but I draw the line at velour interiors. 



Dave-ROR said:


> Old LS400's are ~8 second 0-60 cars too. None of the cars being discussed in your price range are actually fast IMO.
> 
> Older BMW's are fun to drive, but can be expensive and harder to work on in my opinion.


Yeah the 90-94 LS are mid 8 seconds and the 94-?? are 7.8 or something. The pre 96' Q45 are low 6's IIRC which is fast in my book, but the rest are nothing special.

I'd love an older BMW, but both the frequency and cost of repairs brings me to my senses.



essenmeinstuff said:


> hah, I would have thought youd be all over the commonwhore SS? :thumbsup:
> 
> (or I spit in your face for saying it that ford falcon  )


Haha.... actual I didn't make it clear in my post, but I live in Colorado. And even if I still lived back in Oz I wouldn't spend that kind of $$ on a depreciating item. Cars are very expensive in Australia and taxes are high. Fuel is expensive and there are speed camera hidden in parked vans all over the place. Radar detectors are illegal and the cops/camera will get you for going 3 km/h over the limit. Pity as the roads back in Oz are the best.

My relatives freak out when I do 85mph in a 55 zone over here ... along with all the other traffic.



Jayem said:


> The engine is detuned in the SS, only 275hp, but probably relatively easy to get more HP out of.


Thanks, if I see one for sale I'll give it a closer look.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

Dave-ROR said:


> I prefer driving the MGM around. Maybe that's just because I don't care what happens to it though


just like sweatpants. yes, practical, but there is more to life than practicality is my point.

just like you are concerned with 0-60 times being off by 1 second.

you could just as well get a little kia to get from point A to point B. but there is more to life than A to B. maybe you want to do it faster, because its fun. or maybe with some style.

i have spent lots of time in a gran marquis. i think the old ones have some style!


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> just like sweatpants. yes, practical, but there is more to life than practicality is my point.
> 
> just like you are concerned with 0-60 times being off by 1 second.
> 
> ...


The MGM is practical, I can carry my hockey equipment, bikes, etc in it. But it's also actually fun to drive.. it's my slowest car for sure but IMO fast does not equal fun, and it tows our race car for shorter distances that don't need the enclosed trailer. I also race the grand marquis in autocrossing, a sport that's definately designed for smaller sports cars, but after winning the last two seasons in my (now sold) Honda S2000 I find the MGM to be a refreshing change from the usual when autocrossing. Mine is also a tow package so it's a combination P71 and HPP car, and has suspension, driveline and power mods.

I think I enjoy driving it because it's quiet. All of my other cars lack sound deadening, and they get a little old to drive after awhile.

BTW, I'm not concerned at all with 0-60 times being off by a second. I only mentioned 0-60 because the OP did, but he stated that the CV's were slow at 8 second 0-60, the exact same time as the "fast" LS400. Otherwise, I didn't mention anything about 0-60, nor have I said any of them were off by a second.

I've driven a lot of cars, and I never know what car I'll buy next. I generally don't care what cars people buy. I don't like when people make a garage queen out of a car, but it's their right to do with their property as they please, I just believe in using a car in every way possible. Hell, there's a rallycross coming up, I wouldn't mind taking the Grand Marquis out for that


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Dave-ROR said:


> I only mentioned 0-60 because the OP did, but he stated that the CV's were slow at 8 second 0-60, the exact same time as the "fast" LS400.


 I said the crown vic offered nothing over the ls400.. never said the CV's were slow. If the CV PI was under 7 seconds then it might be worth a closer look. 0-60 is just one of many criteria. I live inner city, so most of the time you can't drive faster than the person in front of you (who's usually eating a burger and talking on his cell phone and not paying any attention). The reason I want something with a little bit of grunt is simply because I live at altitude and that kills HP.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

:thumbup: I misunderstood your post.

Either way, I still never complained about the 0-60 of either of them


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

There are a lot of fast SS Impala's running around FL. Doesn't take much to get that sled moving. :thumbsup:


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## real_psyence (Jun 18, 2008)

Got myself an Alfa Romeo 164. FWD, unfortunately, but 3.0L V6 and style to boot. More reliable than the alfa's of the 70's/80's but it helps that I have the biggest parts dealer on the east coast in my back yard.
Cheers!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

You can get a 1997 BMW 528i RWD coupe, for well under $10k. They are one of the most upgradeable and tweakable sports sedans around. Plus they still look absolutely fabulous, after a decade. The 1999 BMW 540i V8 Touring(wagon) is a BOSS looking wagon that looks as good as a brand new Audi wagon. Those BMW engines are simply bulletproof, too. I know.......I was a former BMW ASE Master Technician- and those engines rarely ever went wrong.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I might add....*

BMW 3-class cars to your list. They are great high mileage, from what I found out while researching them for myself. $5-6k can get you a nice one with around 120k miles.

I just picked up a used 1999 Audi A4 Avant with a 1.8 turbo for about your price. Its pretty quick, not too quick.Sedans are all over the place used. Reliability is probably not where you want it, but I am reasonably mechanical, and do much of my own work.


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

I'd agree with the older BMWs as well. Great motors, fun to drive and have aged well. Still a pretty handsome car. They made Sedans for 97 although they are a bit rare. This has been an excellent car, all I've done is regular maintance and put tires on it. Excuse the bike. No clue where prices are these days but I know they are coming down.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Cranked said:


> I'd agree with the older BMWs as well. Great motors, fun to drive and have aged well. Still a pretty handsome car. They made Sedans for 97 although they are a bit rare. This has been an excellent car, all I've done is regular maintance and put tires on it. Excuse the bike. No clue where prices are these days but I know they are coming down.


Nice M3 there, Cranked. Are those real AC Schnitzer rims?


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

No, actually a Japanese company called Blitz racing, I had to have them custom drilled and press fit with a steel sleeve for strength. Cost a lot of money at the time(1998), but still less than the Schnitzer products. I was really in love with everything Schnitzer in the day, but just buying the car seemed to kill my money tree. I love your 5 series too, very smooth.


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## jk (May 29, 2004)

*Seriously?!?!?!*



JustMtnB44 said:


> There were no good RWD, V8 American cars made in the mid/late 90's. They are all very large boats made for old people. The only one that might be worth while was the Impala SS, but they are hard to find.


My dad is a vette guy and I assure you a mid 90's vette, 5.7 liter V8, would fit the bill. Granted the fit and finish is not what a german auto is. Personally I prefer a better all-round driving experience than either the japs or the 'mericans can can deliver...think VW R32...if you've ever driven one you know. Anyway, to get back on topic what about an MR2? or RX7? The handling is better than the acuras' and lexus' and volvos' mentioned and they are probably faster as well. Just my 2 cents. GL!!! :thumbsup:


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## alm80 (Jun 16, 2006)

A1an said:


> There are a lot of fast SS Impala's running around FL. Doesn't take much to get that sled moving. :thumbsup:


This is totally the car your looking for, large four door car, great interior room (leather i think) and an LT1 under the hood. That motor can put down some power with rather simple tuning. American made by GM which means parts are cheap and its easy to work on if that's your thing.


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## MoTard (Apr 13, 2007)

It seems like you really like Lexus. Have you looked at the GS series from lexus? They had a GS400 and a GS300 (someone already mentioned the 300 on the first page) in the late 90's. I think the GS400 did 0-60 in the upper five seconds and the 300 probably in the mid sevens. I have only ridden in a GS300 and it seemed pretty fun to drive and screwed together rather well.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Can anyone tell me why anyone in the US needs such a powerful car to do 65mph?

*Oh yeah, an MR2 was what I was going to recommend.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Can anyone tell me why anyone in the US needs such a powerful car to do 65mph?
> 
> *Oh yeah, an MR2 was what I was going to recommend.


Remember, he was looking for a FOUR DOOR SEDAN. Mister Two is a nice two-seater- but the OP is an Aussie, looking for a "daddy's toy" kinda of car. I believe every adult male should own one- even if it wastes gas, goes too fast, or even costs tons to maintain. You only live ONCE.....and having a toy is great therapy against mid-life crisis!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*You know....*



Zachariah said:


> Remember, he was looking for a FOUR DOOR SEDAN. Mister Two is a nice two-seater- but the OP is an Aussie, looking for a "daddy's toy" kinda of car. I believe every adult male should own one- even if it wastes gas, goes too fast, or even costs tons to maintain. You only live ONCE.....and having a toy is great therapy against mid-life crisis!


... you're talking me into another late 90's-2001A4 sedan that I can mod all up to go fast, coilovers, swaybars, chip and wheels...

... and a Funk button!


From Funk button


From Funk button


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks for all the replys guys.

First of all, lovely BMW's Zachariah & Cranked. Although they're affordable, I think the repair costs wouldn't be worth it for me. I will look into the 1997 BMW 528i since the engine is reliable, but what about the rest of the car? Is there such a thing an an independent BMW mechanic that knows all the substitute non OEM parts. How affordable are reconditioned BMW parts?

BTW my life is complicated enough without having to work on my own cars. I don't even have a garage...

Audi's are beautiful cars and used ones are affordable, but the timing belts are $$ to replace... something like 2.5K.

There's a nice local impala SS 
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/921006579.html
I read the transmissions are only good for 100K and since I don't have a garage, I don't want a black car.

Thanks for the Lexus GS300 suggestion. Nice looking car, with sportier handling than the LS400, but they're a bit slow.. 0-60 is over 9 secs. I'll have to test drive one though. I6 and RWD = nice.

Also just to clarify this isn't really a toy/hobby car for me so I can't get too carried away. The roads and traffic here are just not conducive to real performance driving (throttle lift oversteer). Although early morning on a snow day with good snow tires :thumbsup: 
On the other hand, I don't want a total appliance car. That's what I really like about the Forester XT. It's got great utility, short gearing and awesome power and decent handling. The turbo only cost us about $1,000 over an NA Forster and insurance is the same as an NA forester.

JerkChicken. Colorado has a max speed limit of 75mph. Traffic on the I-70 (65mph) which climbs from 5280 to about 11,000 ft travels at 85mph a lot of the time. You need a reasonable amount of power to maintain those speeds at that altitude on those grades. Not to mention (some) drivers here are morons who deliberately hog the fast/passing lane pacing the car beside them. When you try to get around them they speed up & cut you off. With a fast car you're ahead of them before they get a chance to play games.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Steve71 said:


> Thanks for all the replys guys.
> 
> First of all, lovely BMW's Zachariah & Cranked. Although they're affordable, I think the repair costs wouldn't be worth it for me. I will look into the 1997 BMW 528i since the engine is reliable, but what about the rest of the car? Is there such a thing an an independent BMW mechanic that knows all the substitute non OEM parts. How affordable are reconditioned BMW parts?
> 
> BTW my life is complicated enough without having to work on my own cars. I don't even have a garage...


Steve71........the best thing about independent BMW shops is that they won't strip your wallet, like the BMW $tealer does. As for the other parts? Try closing the door shut of a 528i over any Japanese luxury sedan. You will hear a firm "thunk" from the BMW- instead of a weak "clap" sound, that most Japanese cars make. BMWs are built with more protective metal, than plastic-laden Japanese cars. The BMW 528i reeks of quality, throughout. In fact, all BMWs are engineered strictly using ALL aircraft engineering standards(for durability, reliability, and SAFETY.... under high-speed autobahn driving conditions)...another reason why they are expensive, new. I swear by German road cars, because they are built like bricks, run like racers and look great, in a timeless sense. That's alot of BANG for your buck!!!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Nah...*



Steve71 said:


> Audi's are beautiful cars and used ones are affordable, but the timing belts are $$ to replace... something like 2.5K.


Maybe $2500 at the stealership, but my mechanic quoted me $1200 including all accessory belts, a couple of front engine seals, and new waterpump.

I was seriously considering doing it myself. It's not that hard, but it's an all day DIY mechanic job.

Also the factory service interval is 100k miles, but the vwvortex message board folks say do it at 70k miles.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Steve71 said:


> JerkChicken. Colorado has a max speed limit of 75mph. Traffic on the I-70 (65mph) which climbs from 5280 to about 11,000 ft travels at 85mph a lot of the time. You need a reasonable amount of power to maintain those speeds at that altitude on those grades. Not to mention (some) drivers here are morons who deliberately hog the fast/passing lane pacing the car beside them. When you try to get around them they speed up & cut you off. With a fast car you're ahead of them before they get a chance to play games.


That's still kind of cute. The most enjoyable thing is to do 155 on the Autobahn, then have one of the many idiots with a license here pull out at 65 in front of you when they couldn't wait for a clear highway after.

I still think the thirst for useless power in the US is excessive. It's amazing what a 3400 pound car can do with 200hp or even 170.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

jk said:


> My dad is a vette guy and I assure you a mid 90's vette, 5.7 liter V8, would fit the bill. Granted the fit and finish is not what a german auto is. Personally I prefer a better all-round driving experience than either the japs or the 'mericans can can deliver...think VW R32...if you've ever driven one you know. Anyway, to get back on topic what about an MR2? or RX7? The handling is better than the acuras' and lexus' and volvos' mentioned and they are probably faster as well. Just my 2 cents. GL!!! :thumbsup:


I've driven a R32 fairly often. It's a nice all-around car, but it doesn't do anything extremely well. It's too heavy IMO and still too front biased. Not to mention the minor electrical issues and annoying maintenance (goes for any VW but the R32 is worse, just finished a 40K service on a friends) and you have a car that I personally would never own.

Again though, it's a nice all around car, I just like my cars to be more dedicated towards specific roles.

Oh yeah and while I love MR2's, and still somewhat like RX7's (I've owned and worked on too many to love them anymore) neither of them fit his requirements so they aren't logical choices. Of course, for any RX7 these days I only enjoy 1st gens and 3rd gens with a real (read: small block chevy) engine, I hate the 13B-REW with a passion.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Can anyone tell me why anyone in the US needs such a powerful car to do 65mph?
> 
> *Oh yeah, an MR2 was what I was going to recommend.


Not all of us limit our drivng to public roads.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> It's amazing what a 3400 pound car can do with 200hp or even 170.


Totally. Most of the "performance" I ask of my car is 40-70 mph on the twisties.

And let's not forget what a 2500 pound car can do with 90hp.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

This is what 170hp can do legally. Note, this is up 75mph or more above the speed limit in the US:

https://i522.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=https://vid522.photobucket.com/albums/w346/jerk_chicken/DSCF0385.flv


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## jamis_snow (Dec 5, 2006)

^ werd.

another vote for an a4, mine was perfectly reliable for 135k miles and was very track worthy to boot (it was slow but stuck the turns pretty well).

actually i am looking for another one, it was an amazing car for the money.

***shameless photo of my car***


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> This is what 170hp can do legally. Note, this is up 75mph or more above the speed limit in the US:


Do you send TXT messages at 150 also? Put the camera away!


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I text at 155 all the time.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Pimpbot, $1200 is pretty good... a lot better than $2.5K anyway. I payed $1200 for a timing chain in my old beater Toyota pickup. This timing chain lasted 150K miles though. 

I know light weight low power cars can be fun. The wife and I had a 96 Miata for a 6 years. But IMHO it's frustrating to drive in traffic. Not enough power to overtake that F150 safely, so you get stuck behind them in the curves. :madman: If you live somewhere with lots of twisty roads with little traffic, consider yourself lucky!

JC, I wonder what the top speed of that car would be making the climb from Silverthorn to the Eisenhower tunnel (at 11K ft)? The miata (135hp and 2400lb) ) for example toped out at 60mph in third with your foot planted. And that was with a run up.  

I think it's about 3% power loss per 1000ft. So you're down 33% at 11Kft and 15% around town in Denver.

OTHO the Forester XT has more power that I can comfortably use (for the passengers) uphill at 14K ft with 4 adults in the car. :thumbsup:


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I've got a supercharger with an electronic clutch, so it's going to run a normalizing higher duty cycle until it hits the overspin point, so a small drop won't bother me, especially when we have such mountain ranges as the Alps through which we must drive and people do it with much less, quite comfortably. That hypothetical doesn't exist, however. You simply don't need that much power, a fact being exploited by the oil producers.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I've got a supercharger with an electronic clutch, so it's going to run a normalizing higher duty cycle until it hits the overspin point, so a small drop won't bother me, especially when we have such mountain ranges as the Alps through which we must drive and people do it with much less, quite comfortably. That hypothetical doesn't exist, however. You simply don't need that much power, a fact being exploited by the oil producers.


i Have done that CO drive, and lived in germany. it was mid90s and i had a gti vr6. lots of fun.

that pass in CO is one of the only places in the USA where you need the power. we had a rental car and could not maintain highway speeds up that pass.

but people do not NEED that kind of power, even in germany. but it's fun! you dont need lots of stuff, but people have extra income to use on toys and luxury.

there are some other places in the USA where you can use a fast car (merritt pkwy in southern CT), some of the big open roads in the west with crazy headwinds and no speedlimit.

the autobahn traffic in germany is such that you can rarely drive fast anyway, unless you go out at odd times. i lived in munich and would drive to hamburg frequently. i think you need really good brakes in germany for when you are doing 225kph and some truck pulls into the left lane going 90 kph. BRAKES>....

stop talking down to people, it reduces your credibility.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> i Have done that CO drive, and lived in germany. it was mid90s and i had a gti vr6. lots of fun.
> 
> that pass in CO is one of the only places in the USA where you need the power. we had a rental car and could not maintain highway speeds up that pass.
> 
> ...


How does it reduce my credibility? I'm saying people don't need that much power. And on that lovely Merritt you're telling me you can go fast? Right, until one of their lovely cops pulls you over. Not as if these highways you mention were made to safely handle such high speeds, of course.

I don't know what you're saying about "even in Germany" because few have such powerful cars. 170 is considered a lot and I was surprised to see 110hp cars with full decked out sport packages from the factory. Then I went on the Autobahns and saw what the deal was. These cars can make it up to high speeds, while AMericans thing anything below 220 is underpowered because they need to do 65. Are you trying to assert that Germans have these ridiculously high-powered cars? Nope, I've only seen a handful of these RS/S Audis, Bmw M-cars, AMG Benzes, and their higher HP, larger engined variants in their normal lines. They simply barely exist here. People think they will pull onto the Autobahn and see Lambo after Porsche after Ferrari, which is not the case.

It's fun, but I'm sure you've whined about the gas prices, especially those in CT.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

jh_on_the_cape said:


> I think you need really good brakes in Germany for when you are doing 225kph and some truck pulls into the left lane going 90 kph. BRAKES


Especially if the guy doing 225 is taking pictures and sending TXT messages.


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## aknutson (Nov 26, 2008)

*Cadillac*

While it isn't a RWD, a late-90's Cadillac STS would fit the bill for what you're searching for. Because of the huge depreciation, you'll pick up a nice example with good miles for somewhere in your budget - the early-mid 1990's Caddy with its 300 horsepower Northstar 4.6L V8 would hit 150 mph, and get there in a hurry. The fuel mileage isn't terrible, and the repair bills would be cheaper than the older foreign cars. It would also offer superior comfort to the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, although it won't be quite as smooth as the Lexus.

I keep a look out for cars just like the one's you're searching for, as myself I would like a cheap set of powerful RWD metal. Some of interest may be the BMW 3-series (actually quite reliable if maintained properly - look for a 328i in good shape), Audi 1.8T Quattro, or a Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. The mid-90's GM's with the 3.8L Supercharged were good cars (although FWD), bulletproof reliable motors with 240 hp / 280 lb-ft torque. Check the Buick Regal GS, Oldsmobile LSS, Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, or the Bonneville SSEI. If you're stuck on RWD, wait for the new Chargers to depreciate - shouldn't take long


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## Pete Fagerlin (Oct 15, 2008)

It's great when these car discussions turn into "needs" vs. "wants" discussions.

Sure, nobody "needs" x amount of horsepower(you supply your personal figure there) to get from point A to point B. The difference is, more HP can equal much more fun for many folks.

Just like nobody needs 27 speed FS bikes to get from here to there. Just as a lumpy trail can be ridden on a cross bike but it's more fun on FS bike. Needs vs. wants.

Driving fast on relatively straight highways/freeways is pretty boring. While it's possible to get to high cruising speeds with low-mid hp cars, it takes a while. Especially if you're having to slow frequently (for other traffic, or due to layout of the road) and then get back up to speed.

While some folks may describe high HP as "excess power" (JC), I think that they're overlooking an important part of the grin factor when driving. That "excess power" creates lots of longitudinal gees in between corner, which is much more fun than tootling along in a low HP momentum car waiting to turn in (entry speed is so slow that you don't even need to use the brakes).


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> How does it reduce my credibility? I'm saying people don't need that much power. And on that lovely Merritt you're telling me you can go fast? Right, until one of their lovely cops pulls you over. Not as if these highways you mention were made to safely handle such high speeds, of course.
> 
> It's fun, but I'm sure you've whined about the gas prices, especially those in CT.


are we even on the same planet? :lol: most of the overpowered cars sold in the US are... german. most of the high powered cars are luxury or sportcars anyway, neither of which anyone "needs".

why drive a bmw when you can drive a pos geo metro? its more than you "need" anyway. some things are just wants. if you can afford it, have at it.

some people like having a lot of power. dont you think its silly for you to be saying people are wrong for subjectively liking something? no one *needs* 99% of the crap they have anyway.


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

You people and your pussified 170hp cars. PLEASE. This is how its done. 700hp+ street legal car. And you want to know why???

Because we can. This is one of my best friends car. His other car is a mid 12 sec Mustang daily driver that gets 25 mpg on the highway with over 350 horsepower.

https://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh11/clickclickracing/?action=view&current=M2U00478.flv


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

tomsmoto said:


> are we even on the same planet? :lol: most of the overpowered cars sold in the US are... german. most of the high powered cars are luxury or sportcars anyway, neither of which anyone "needs".


That is the same planet. Most of those cars are in the US, not in Germany. Hell, even the largest of the large Benzes have the six in them and most cars don't have an indication of which engine they have, including the RS and S cars, as that's a status symbol in the US only.


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## OhioGuy82 (Sep 11, 2006)

Otter said:


> Drive a Ford Taurus SHO. Front wheel drive, but fast fast fast.


I have one of those!!! 1991Ford Taurus SHO. 3.0 Manual shift. Suprises everyone everyday. If you want a mid 90's car that's fast and reliable. Find an LT1 car. F/B Body. If you want room. go with a B-Body of you want handling and more speed. Go with the F-Body. I happen to own an LT1 car. It's an absolute blast.


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

My vote is an older 5 series, or a newer 3 Series, or an LS400. I love Toyota's simplicity in their perfect function and design. 

But im a sucker for big VIP Japanese cars..


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Pete Fagerlin said:


> It's great when these car discussions turn into "needs" vs. "wants" discussions.
> 
> Sure, nobody "needs" x amount of horsepower(you supply your personal figure there) to get from point A to point B. The difference is, more HP can equal much more fun for many folks.
> 
> ...


Good explanation. Most here were more interested in justifying it by mentioning how practical it is to have such vehicles.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Amazing how wrong a simple discussion can go around here.

- OP, go for the LS400. I have an 02 GS430, it's the nicest car I've ever owned. 130K miles on an LS400 is nothing. I have a friend with over 300K miles on his 93. Original engine, heads, valves, trans, diff, chassis. These cars last forever and need nothing! Looks good with a roof rack too.

- I had an 96 Impala SS, drove it for 10 years, the last 3 were an experience. The car basicly rusted out from under me. The design is from the mid 70's, no chance for quality.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Do the Toyota alternators last that long?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

OhioGuy82 said:


> ...If you want a mid 90's car that's fast and reliable. Find an LT1 car. F/B Body. If you want room. go with a B-Body of you want handling and more speed. Go with the F-Body. I happen to own an LT1 car. It's an absolute blast.


Are you kidding when you say "reliable", an LT1? Fast, yes, with an optispark and stone age design, no LT1/4 car will be reliable compared to more modern cars. I had a 96 SS and still own a 96 LT4 Vette. I know exactly how reliable these cars are, it's not pretty. These cars will strand you, the opti can die in minutes if the H2O pump fails, which happens alot since GM designed it with a single bearing, then placed right over the distributer (opti-spark). Now my daily driver is a GS430. 1.3 second faster in the quarter mile compared to my stock Impala, much better handling, slightly smaller (about the same space for 4 adults). Trunk is just as big.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Do the Toyota alternators last that long?


He would have told me , I haven't asked specifically, I'm 90% sure it's original. Even if it isn't, the 5 speed/V8 Toyota drive train is the most reliable drive train ever made to date. (Wards and Consumer Reports) My GS430 has 120K miles, I change the oil every 6 months (~6K miles). The Mobil 1 comes out a light honey color. In all my Chevy and Ford V8 engines, the oil is black after 1Kmile (on a 30Kmile LT4 lo less). The Toyota V8 is tight, no blow by, no oil burned, after 120kmiles.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

pursuiter said:


> He would have told me , I haven't asked specifically, I'm 90% sure it's original. Even if it isn't, the 5 speed/V8 Toyota drive train is the most reliable drive train ever made to date. (Wards and Consumer Reports) My GS430 has 120K miles, I change the oil every 6 months (~6K miles). The Mobil 1 comes out a light honey color. In all my Chevy and Ford V8 engines,* the oil is black after 1Kmile* (on a 30Kmile LT4 lo less). The Toyota V8 is tight, no blow by, no oil burned, after 120kmiles.


Do you know why that is?


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## aknutson (Nov 26, 2008)

*Old Imports*

From personal experience, older Japanese cars can look amazing from the outside (look how many early '90's Camry's are still on the road!) but if and when something does go wrong, its cheaper to get a new car. Honestly - the major components for an early '90's LS400 are huge, and finding someone to do the work properly is difficult unless you can do it yourself. Just think about it - premium car, premium parts, premium price. The car cost $80K when it was new not just because its a Crown Vic with luxuries, its actually quality engineered and built with expensive components. Replacing those WILL BE EXPENSIVE. The OP indicated a budget of less than $6K, so probably doesn't want giant repair bills. Keep it simple, get a car that was meant for average guys wanting V8 muscle, not top execs needing a road yacht.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

aknutson said:


> ...Keep it simple, get a car that was meant for average guys wanting V8 muscle, not top execs needing a road yacht.


LOL, a mid 90's LS400 is as fast as my 96 Impala was stock. It'll mow down any Ford V8 ClownVic up to the super charged Murader, handles better too. Buy an b-body, get ready for big repair bills and being stranded, what's that worth :thumbsup:


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Do you know why that is?


blow by, the motors are not tight


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## aknutson (Nov 26, 2008)

*reliability!?*

Re: Pursuiter,

"the 5 speed/V8 Toyota drive train is the most reliable drive train ever made to date"

Firstly, there is no way to definitively say any engine/transmission is the most reliable 'ever'. Mechanically there are too many variables at work to say with any sort of certainty that a motor will be a statistic - you will find LS400 owners who have had their car in the shop more than the guy with a Ford Focus, and you will find those that have never replaced a factory part after 150K miles. Because its a used car you also have to take into account the previous owner, they may have abused the car. I have a friend who still drives her 1995 Chev Cavalier well past 300K Kms, and not a replacement part to speak of - ever see that car on your 'best of' charts? Likely not.

At this price range is a gamble, and one thing you can put your money on is that replacing major components on a Ford 4.6 will cost you a heck of a lot less than a 15-year-old premium import V8.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

aknutson said:


> From personal experience, older Japanese cars can look amazing from the outside (look how many early '90's Camry's are still on the road!) but if and when something does go wrong, its cheaper to get a new car. Honestly - the major components for an early '90's LS400 are huge, and finding someone to do the work properly is difficult unless you can do it yourself. Just think about it - premium car, premium parts, premium price. The car cost $80K when it was new not just because its a Crown Vic with luxuries, its actually quality engineered and built with expensive components. Replacing those WILL BE EXPENSIVE. The OP indicated a budget of less than $6K, so probably doesn't want giant repair bills. Keep it simple, get a car that was meant for average guys wanting V8 muscle, not top execs needing a road yacht.


older asian import parts are the cheapest parts on the market. early LS400's dont break. they're so retardedly overbuilt its amazing. they're street legal tanks. completely not fun to drive, but they're nearly indestructible. the only way you'd really be replacing the expensive stuff is if someone broke into your car and intentionally damaged them.

if you think early ls parts are expensive, you'd have a seizure if you saw the price for a few of the components on the new ones. the nav screens close in on 10K 



> That is the same planet. Most of those cars are in the US, not in Germany. Hell, even the largest of the large Benzes have the six in them and most cars don't have an indication of which engine they have, including the RS and S cars, as that's a status symbol in the US only.


you guys get all the diesels too. if gas dropped to 2 dollars a gallon there for extended periods of time, you'd start seeing overpowered cars too. horsepower is cheap here. even during our gas "crisis" it was only 5 bucks a gallon, cheaper than most of the worlds gas.


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## aknutson (Nov 26, 2008)

*repairs*

Are you talking cheap parts for premium cars like Lexus, or cheap parts for cars like the Camry? I drove my '89 Camry into the ground, and it was a fun car till the last kilometer, but I don't remember parts being overly cheap even for that, not a premium by any stretch. But man, that 2.5L V6 could pull! I childishly raced a friend who was 'bragging' about his '94 Grand Prix with the GM 3.1, the old Toyota kept pace the whole distance and eventually took lead. Again, childish, but I wanted to shut him up, and was amazed at the result. It even had a 'power' button beside the tranny! I miss that old car - bought it for $1,400 and if I had taken the time, could have driven it for years.


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## The Hired Wrench (Nov 6, 2008)

wow, and you all were too busy waving your pee-pees around to put him in the car HE DESCRIBED.

let's start over; i suggest you go for the Volvo 940 Turbo. 2.3 litre four cylinder (good on fuel), turbo (restrict the wastegate on it, you're in the fourteens), rear wheel drive, comfy, looks awesome with a rack, can be made beautiful, lots of dealer-performance options...

a 1994-5 would be optimal, stay away from n/a versions, that turbo will be good in the cold weather at high altitude, will runn well past 500k (been documented), comes in both wagon and sedan and its not the ugly volvo.

oh, and before i forget, they can be had for about 2 grand. nice condition.

american cars are rubbish, you all know that, it's time to finally admit it, like GM did in their 2005 ad campaign apologizing for the past thirty years.



















do ittttt.


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## Pete Fagerlin (Oct 15, 2008)

The Hired Wrench said:


>


Thanks.

Those are really funny.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

aknutson said:


> While it isn't a RWD, a late-90's Cadillac STS would fit the bill for what you're searching for. Because of the huge depreciation, you'll pick up a nice example with good miles for somewhere in your budget - the early-mid 1990's Caddy with its 300 horsepower Northstar 4.6L V8 would hit 150 mph, and get there in a hurry. The fuel mileage isn't terrible, and the repair bills would be cheaper than the older foreign cars. It would also offer superior comfort to the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, although it won't be quite as smooth as the Lexus.
> 
> I keep a look out for cars just like the one's you're searching for, as myself I would like a cheap set of powerful RWD metal. Some of interest may be the BMW 3-series (actually quite reliable if maintained properly - look for a 328i in good shape), Audi 1.8T Quattro, or a Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. The mid-90's GM's with the 3.8L Supercharged were good cars (although FWD), bulletproof reliable motors with 240 hp / 280 lb-ft torque. Check the Buick Regal GS, Oldsmobile LSS, Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, or the Bonneville SSEI. If you're stuck on RWD, wait for the new Chargers to depreciate - shouldn't take long


Northstar's mean one thing to me. Head Gasket repairs. And lots of $$ to do it.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Nissan 240sx SE = RWD option cheep !

VW Corrado = the only front wheel drive option !


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

The Hired Wrench said:


> let's start over; i suggest you go for the Volvo 940 Turbo. 2.3 litre four cylinder (good on fuel), turbo (restrict the wastegate on it, you're in the fourteens), rear wheel drive, comfy, looks awesome with a rack, can be made beautiful, lots of dealer-performance options...
> 
> do ittttt.


I like the older, good Volvo's. You know, the RWD ones. But those pictures of those Volvo's you posted are most likely not what he wants, and not what a lot of people want.


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## Dave-ROR (Nov 12, 2008)

Evil4bc said:


> Nissan 240sx SE = RWD option cheep !
> 
> VW Corrado = the only front wheel drive option !


4 door requirement.

come on people, read his damn post/requirements.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

You can probably get one of these for cheap...


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

These are pretty nice...I think this one even has upgraded exhaust...


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

i see on your list is the accord 6cyl ... those were garbage especially the auto trans they were mated with

if you end up going the honda route ... look for a 93ish legend with the 6speed ... you will liekly have a hard time finding one though ... ls400 as previously stated is also a good choice.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

frdfandc said:


> This is how its done. 700hp+ street legal car.


Street legal for what? Drag-racing down to the local Circle K to get some more Natty-Light?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

The Hired Wrench said:


> wow, and you all were too busy waving your pee-pees around to put him in the car HE DESCRIBED.
> 
> let's start over; i suggest you go for the Volvo 940 Turbo. 2.3 litre four cylinder (good on fuel), turbo (restrict the wastegate on it, you're in the fourteens), rear wheel drive, comfy, looks awesome with a rack, can be made beautiful, lots of dealer-performance options...
> 
> ...


Those pictures lend a lot of credibility to your post. Those things look *****in', yo.


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Street legal for what? Drag-racing down to the local Circle K to get some more Natty-Light?


Street legal as in passes emmisions and state safety requirements. We (the owner and I) also took his car 240 miles to Englishtown, NJ and back with zero problems. Other than not having heat in the car, it ran great.

If you want a Volvo, gotta go in this direction.............


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

the reason volvos are so safe is they are broken down so much they sit in the driveway for weeks on end .... my family bought a 98 xc v70 wagon in summer of 2005 and aside from the dodge omni we had when i was a kid, it is easliy the biggest pos weve owned but for some reason my dad keeps paying the repair bills ... the topper is for the last 2 years they havent even gone skiing! Hopefully one day he will come to his senses and get a reliable 2wd car again.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Mid 90s Volvo are reliable, news to these consumers:
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_16267.html

1st Jul 2001, 20:08
"An evil Swede plagued with hundreds of reliability gremlins"
What things have gone wrong with the car?
Oxygen sensor failed twice.

Heated seats never worked properly from the get go.

Rear tail lights mysteriously went out three weeks after purchase.

Thousands of squeaks and rattles throughout interior.

Power antenna motor failure.

Power driver seat failed.

Check engine light is always on for various reasons of its own.

Transmission failed twice resulting in the car being towed both times to the dealership.

The emissions system cannot be depended upon.

Pieces of the interior breaking and falling off. Center armrest has broken four times and is broken right now as a matter of fact!

Dozens of other electrical-related and expensive problems still run rampant as we speak.

General comments?
Buying this thing was the biggest mistake of my life. I thought Volvos were reliable, well-engineered cars. They are not at all! I can't wait to get rid of it for something else! This Volvo makes my mom's old Jaguar seem like a Lexus in terms of reliability.

Acceleration is pretty good, if you can get over the torque steer.

Seats are comfortable, audio system is OK, rear visibility is not good at all.

Lately, the steering in my car has become more heavy with a disconnected, ponderous feel to it. The quality of the interior materials is awful.

22nd Jun 2002, 11:42
I agree completely. I bought a used 94 850 with 59Kmi about 8 months ago. Here is the list of problems:

Radiator leak required replacement

rear window seal failed and required replacement

roof liner material came unglued

interior plastic trim is of poor quality and cracked

ac/heater blower failed and required replacement

fuel pump died and required replacement

transmission is now failing.

If the transmission needs to be replaced, that will be about 4K in repairs in 8 months.

This car is a piece of crap and I'm about to go after the dealer if the tranny does not get fixed. The car is a lemon and I doubt that I would consider another volvo after this. I bought one on reputation - not a good idea at this point.

27th Aug 2003, 11:22
I've owned two 850's now and they do have their problems, but they seem to be consistent. The transmissions do fail and the micro switch on top of the tranny is a factory recall, get it replaced. Also, in the power seats, the cable for reclining breaks, replace it as well when or if it breaks. I've experienced the roof liner material coming off of the sunroof slider, I fixed it with $3 of 3M spray adhesive. I've driven both these cars HARD and they've taken the abuse. Sorry to hear that others are unhappy with the car. Its not Honda reliability, but you'll also live when you get hit by all the SUVs out there.

19th May 2006, 16:36
I had no experience with Volvo cars prior to meeting my husband, who owns a 1994 850.

Let's say that my husbands mechanical skills are entirely lacking, and I'm the one that has taken over the reins in that department.

The car was bought used in 2000, and, in the beginning, she was taken to a Volvo dealer for regular maintenance. That ended somewhere around 2003.

I love driving the car. However, I have noticed our 850 having many of the same problems as others have noted.

The AC no longer works. The blower only works on setting 4. The shift lock acts up occassionally, and, in cold weather, we have trouble with acceleration.

I'm taking her in for a check-up in a couple of weeks. I found a site that lists how much it should cost, parts and labor, for various services on the car from a Volvo dealer. The most pressing thing is to have the timing belt replaced and an engine tune-up. But, I'm fearful as to what the mechanics may find. I wonder, do you think that some mechanics take advantage of Volvo owners given the fact that they are more complicated than say, a Honda? With my Honda and my Mitsubishi, I would just take it to the local lube joint, but Volvo's are tricky and I think the dealerships work that to their advantage.

25th May 2006, 18:54
I take some comfort reading these comments because I thought I was the only one who had a bad Volvo. I bought mine three months ago, with 100,000 miles on it. In that time I have spent about $1,600 on repairs (oxygen sensors, fuel pump, etc.), I cannot get FM on the radio and for some reason I have a standing pool of water in the trunk, where the spare is. then there are all the squeaks and rattles. I'm hoping to get through summer with it then cutting my losses and trading it in for something, anything, else.


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