# Lupine v. Ay-Up ?



## HardTail610 (Apr 6, 2005)

Looking at the Lupine Piko 3 and the Ay-Up Adventure kit.
Throw an extra battery at the Lupine (to match the kit) and the price is pretty close.
I'm really liking the idea of the small and lightweight, and the not mondo-expensivo "replacement" batteries is a plus.

I know it's not a Betty with 32 LED's that'll burn a tent down at 200 yards, but I think the light/weight tradeoff is one I'm willing to make.

Currently using the Nightrider HID/LED combo. 
Love the light, hate the weight.

Your thoughts?


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

I have just three rides with a new 750 OTF Lupine Piko 3 so far, and I just love it. So much light that it's hard to believe from such a small package. I don't even feel the light head on my helmet. I opted to get it with a 5Ah battery, I need 3.5 hours in winter riding so am selling the 2.5Ah it came with.

My decision now is which new flood bar light... I'm starting to think maybe a Magicshine MJ-872 mated to a Lupine compatible Open Light Systems 8.7Ah battery via a custom cable.


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## HardTail610 (Apr 6, 2005)

Thanks.

Anyone out there unhappy with the amount of light from the Ay-Ups?

Riding fast on a rainy moonless night through the thick trees?

I dig the simplicity and flexibility to the Ay-Up, not to mention the cost of the batteries, but if the lumens just aren't there...


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## Prophesier (Jun 15, 2009)

Yes, I'm unhappy with the light output of my ay-ups. They were ok compared with other lights a couple of years ago but even with the upgrades they pale in significance with the current lights on the market for the same price or less.

They are compact,lightweight and robust, but I had to replace one battery and one charger in two years.

I'm currently deciding what my next light purchase will be.


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## HardTail610 (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm guessing you got yours before they started offering the "40% more power" option...I wonder if that would have been enough to make you happier with the output. 
I think that "upgrade" would definitely be the way to go....

But yea, no matter how you slice it, it looks like the Lupine is about twice as bright.
If the Ay-Ups were "bright enough" that would be one thing, but if they are not, then nothing else matters.

$180 for the Lupine 5amp and $80 for the Ay-Up Epic battery...that's a big difference. That's way more important than burn time of any particular battery model.

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

HardTail610 said:


> $180 for the Lupine 5amp and $80 for the Ay-Up Epic battery...that's a big difference. That's way more important than burn time of any particular battery model.
> 
> Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:


You can get an Open Light Source Lupine style 8.7Ah battery from Geoman for $130 currently.

Also, the guys over at www.GrentaBikes.com told me that a Lupine Piko 6 is coming out I think in September, it is the Piko 3 but with a 5Ah battery that has LED lights on it which measure the battery capacity, he said if you mount it on your seatpost it could act as a rear light too. Pricing wasn't firm but he said somewhere in the $400 to $500 range.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I think Ay-Ups were great in the transition from halogen to LED - simple, light, not too expensive - but they're considerably behind the times in output and features now. Not to say that they're bad lights, but for the money I'd go with something else.

On another note, it's unlikely that they'll be able to catch up in either output or features - they don't have the surface area for the newer high current emitters (XM-L) to run at full output and the housing doesn't have enough space for a semi-decent driver (I'm pretty sure they're still direct drive). Hopefully the guys behind Ay-Up have been thinking ahead though


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

HardTail610 said:


> $180 for the Lupine 5amp and $80 for the Ay-Up Epic battery...that's a big difference. That's way more important than burn time of any particular battery model.
> 
> Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:


No flame for Ay-Up... even though they might need to update their line - I would consider them one of the credible light manufacturers...

BUT in any case, the battery comparison doesn't seem right.

Isn't the Ay-Up Epic battery 2600 mAH?

That means you'd need 2x $80 = $160 to be equivalent to the 5 AH Lupine battery.

AND as already mentioned below... Open Light Systems undercuts that by a fair amount.

ALSO I didn't quite get the "That's way more important than burn time of any particular battery model." comment... uhhhhh, if I'm on a night ride, I'm thinking having enough runtime for my light is one of the MORE important considerations.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

HardTail610 said:


> I'm guessing you got yours before they started offering the "40% more power" option...I wonder if that would have been enough to make you happier with the output.
> I think that "upgrade" would definitely be the way to go....
> 
> But yea, no matter how you slice it, it looks like the Lupine is about twice as bright.
> ...


Prophesier said


> but I had to replace one battery and one charger in two years


That wouldn't happend with the Lupine. I have a 3+ year old battery going as strong as day 1 and IF you have any issue with a charger you wil be taken care of:thumbsup:


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## BTSVBerni (Aug 29, 2008)

Stay away of AyUp.

The lights are nice as long as they work....... . Customer service is disgusting !
The plug of my battery started falling off after 1 year and 10 months.
Answer from Ay-up...... "have a look in our webshop and buy a new one."

Overpriced crap.

Berni


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

I've been very happy with my Ay Up helmet set up. They have been bright enough and reliable in the two years that I've been using them. The light weight is nice. I just got the upgrade email this morning, for $35 I can upgrade to the Cree R2 bin LED which they tout as 30% brighter.the also have an upgrade to run at a higher current that supposedly ups out put by 40% and reduces runt time by 30%. You electrical experts can probably tell me (and everyone else) what this means, is it a combined increase of 70% if you do both upgrades or somewhat lower, which is what I suspect?

I do think they are falling behind tech wise. I'd like to see a low light mode for changing tires etc and more lumens.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

I just got out for my first night ride of the fall season last night. A buddy of mine was using two of the 550 lumen Piko's, and they held their own very well against my Betty/Wilma. Can't wait to see the 750 lumen version. My point is, wait a couple weeks and get the Piko 6, it will have all the run time you want and is just a fantastic light, or as already mentioned, get the Piko 3 and an open light battery. Ive been using much more powerfull lights for a while and the Piko still blows me away!!


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## abacojeff (Aug 17, 2008)

BTSVBerni said:


> Stay away of AyUp.
> 
> The lights are nice as long as they work....... . Customer service is disgusting !
> The plug of my battery started falling off after 1 year and 10 months.
> ...


You have a legitimate right to be disappointed that a product that you spend your hard earned money on is no longer functioning...

However, the situation should also be taken in context, I think.

You received 2 years of good hard use from the lights, and now a cord is broken. Seems like this is something that could be repaired for less than $10. No sense raking the company over the coals for a relatively minor flaw. Maybe a good stern disapproving look in their general direction is warranted and a warning of 'buyer beware'???


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

abacojeff said:


> You have a legitimate right to be disappointed that a product that you spend your hard earned money on is no longer functioning...
> 
> However, the situation should also be taken in context, I think.
> 
> You received 2 years of good hard use from the lights, and now a cord is broken. Seems like this is something that could be repaired for less than $10. No sense raking the company over the coals for a relatively minor flaw. Maybe a good stern disapproving look in their general direction is warranted and a warning of 'buyer beware'???


It speaks volumes to me of their customer service, but I agree, after being fully disappointed with them, I would fix the cable and keep using them. Look elsewhere when it's time for a new light.


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## BTSVBerni (Aug 29, 2008)

I don't do any excessive night rides at the moment. For commuting Hope is doing the job
now and it is doing fine.
If I go back to do more night rides I'll go for Lupine or Exposure. The lights are very good
and all you hear about their customer service is outstanding good.

Pointing a customer directly to the webshop is a bad joke. No matter if the lights are
good or not. And no matter if they are cheaper than other brands or not.
Buy cheap and you buy twice.

Berni


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## playpunk (Apr 1, 2005)

I have ayups. They're fine. I think I'm going to upgrade my LED's and optics in a couple of weeks. 

My dad has a lupine pico, and that thing is awesome. If I had to do it over again, I'd get 2 pico's. I got the expensive AYUP kit with 6 batteries, so the cost would have been the same. The pico is a way nicer light. 

The ayups are fine too, though.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

there are many happy customers with the AY-UP's .
and it is a good system, slick, good looking , functional, waterproof,
and have good chargers.
But comes with a Achilles heel.
you got to use their battery ! think the LED driver is in the battery, not sure.
and the switch is on the battery. 
For my taste, I'd like to be able to have a choice on battery and capacity.
If you live in Australia, still a top choice.
Lupine is the Apple for lights. 
cheers, Rob


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## BTSVBerni (Aug 29, 2008)

The ayup's work fine and you get a lot of light for the money that's out of question.
And as long as nothing is going wrong it's fine............but if it's going wrong....have fun....

A bit off topic.

Bought a LED Lenser H7 and after a while (use it regularily at work) the plug/connection was failing.
Went to the dealer and got a complete new one without further questions.
The LED Lenser guys had a few complaints about this plug/connection and guess what they did ?
They improved the connection so that this fault can not happen again. They did not tell me to go to the shop to buy a new one and they did not give me the good advice to fix it on my own.

That's the difference between good and bad customer service.

Berni


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

rschultz101 said:


> there are many happy customers with the AY-UP's .
> and it is a good system, slick, good looking , functional, waterproof,
> and have good chargers.
> But comes with a Achilles heel.
> ...


I don't know about current Ay-Ups, but the older ones were direct drive with a resistor and a switch. Given that the current Ay-Ups don't have any sort of "driver functionality" like multiple power levels, battery warnings etc, I'm guessing that the new ones are the same.

They might have improved the spec of that resistor, but I know that there have been plenty of older ones with burnt out or cracked resistors after 2+ years, going by the various Ay-Up upgrade/ repair threads on the DIY forum.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Ive had Ay-Ups for 3 years and am just about to do their upgrade. Bloody good lights !


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## HardTail610 (Apr 6, 2005)

Just to followup, I went with the Piko3.

Wow, after my monster HID, this tiny little thing is amazing! 

Not sure that the battery is really small enough to mount on the helmet, but I definitely can drop it into a shirt pocket and not even know that it's there. (Needed the Camelbak to comfortably carry the NmH for the HID.)

Looking forward to burning a hole in the night with this puppy!

btw: Gotta give a shout out to the folks at GRETNA who were super helpful! Thanks guys!
:thumbsup:


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

HardTail610 said:


> Just to followup, I went with the Piko3.
> 
> Wow, after my monster HID, this tiny little thing is amazing!
> 
> ...


Pretty impressive isn't it. I was out on a very early ride this morning at 4AM and one of my buddies has (2) Magicshine 900's. My Piko 3 very clearly puts out more light than both of his 900's. He has hotter spots whereas the Piko is very evenly distributed, but it lights a far bigger area and brighter than did his two lights.

Just wait until my Dinotte 1200L-Plus comes in....


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

randyharris said:


> You can get an Open Light Source Lupine style 8.7Ah battery from Geoman for $130 currently.


I purchased mine directly from OLS before they were setup through GeoMan and I've been running it for about 6 months. Works great so far.:thumbsup:

I have the Piko 3 that I run on my helmet for most rides and it is AWESOME, plus Gretna Bike gang is great to deal with.

Woody


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## sboada19 (Jul 7, 2011)

I just bought a Piko 3 last week from gretna. Just completed my first "night" ride this morning and am very impressed. Was able to run at about 80% day time speed with just the Piko 3 on my helmet and no bar light.


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

sboada19 said:


> I just bought a Piko 3 last week from gretna. Just completed my first "night" ride this morning and am very impressed. Was able to run at about 80% day time speed with just the Piko 3 on my helmet and no bar light.


Just wait until you pair t with a Dinotte 1200L-Plus like I did... WOW


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I agree with Randy - putting a Piko 3 with a 1200-1500 lumens out the front is the way to go. The Piko 3 is an outstanding light - just excellent. Great choice. I run my Piko 3 on my helmet with my brand new wilma 1500 and it's fantastic. Running it with my older Dinotte 1200L and the Piko3 - the two are just about equivalent.


J.


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## jase.paluzzi (Apr 23, 2011)

JohnJ80 said:


> I run my Piko 3 on my helmet with my *brand new wilma 1500* and it's fantastic.


JohnJ80, does your Wilma heat up? I see that its quite small and has a very high output. What does 17W feel like to touch?


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

jase.paluzzi said:


> JohnJ80, does your Wilma heat up? I see that its quite small and has a very high output. What does 17W feel like to touch?


That's actually 19W already ;-)

Yes, Lupine lightheads get warm, especially if used on hot summer nights. Light output drops - somewhat, but I doubt that you could tell this. The reason you have thermal management in the lighthead is that you don't have to worry about overheating.

The other solution which I like is to drop output to 55%, which is hardly any less light for a lot less power and heat.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

It gets warm but they handle it with the electronics. It will get warmer if stopped than if moving (airflow). All in all, it's quite a light. Much smaller than I had anticipated.

J.


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