# Mineral oil brake fluid....on the cheap



## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

Just wanted to give a heads up to people running hydraulic disc brakes compatible with mineral oil. 

Shimano charges something like $25 for a 16oz bottle. Well, I went to my local PWT store (you choose: Target, Wal-Mart, Kmart, Walgreens....) and picked up a 16oz. bottle of mineral oil for $1.52. Mind you the Shimano brake fluid is pink/red, and the mineral oil I purchased is clear. If it makes you feel better you can purchase some red food coloring and make yours pink/red as well. 

Don't fall for the hype. Go on the cheap and spend the extra coin you saved on something cool  

Keep it simple.

BFE


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## Sghost (Jul 15, 2008)

errr, I dont know exactly what you bought...

But use Pentosin CHF 7.1 fluid. Its used in some BMW power steering systems.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

Sghost said:


> errr, I dont know exactly what you bought...
> 
> But use Pentosin CHF 7.1 fluid. Its used in some BMW power steering systems.


I'm pretty sure Pentosin is synthetic.


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

Err, I don't drive a BMW. I ride a bike with hydraulic brakes, which call for mineral oil to be used for brake fluid. My brakes don't need Pentosin CHF 7.1, just mineral oil.

I bought mineral oil, exactly. If you need further clarification on what I bought you can consult the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

Simple.

Did you post in the wrong forum? This is MTBR



Sghost said:


> errr, I dont know exactly what you bought...
> 
> But use Pentosin CHF 7.1 fluid. Its used in some BMW power steering systems.


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## nnn (Feb 1, 2005)

I've head citroen power steering fluid is normal mineral oil with the right viscosity (very important) but have never tried it.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

All you need to know and more...

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

PsyCro said:


> All you need to know and more...
> 
> http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm


Yeah PVD has great info there....

especially this part

"DO NOT USE MINERAL OIL FROM THE DRUGSTORE!!!! What you are buying at the drugstore is a laxative, not a specific industrial oil. This oil does not have the specific viscosities (up to 3X too thick) or additives for perfect functionality with a hydraulic system. A MSDS for drug store mineral oil is available HERE. If you were in a jam and just had to use this crap, use Drakeol® 10 or 10B, Ultraol 100NF.

This is what Magura says about drugstore mineral oil:

What type of oil should I use in my Magura hydraulic brakes?

Magura Blood mineral oil is the recommended oil, which is a 10 weight mineral oil. By far, our most common problem we encounter is consumers putting off-the-shelf mineral oil (from a drug store) in their Magura hydraulic brakes. Off-the-shelf mineral oil is normally 30-50 weight which will make the brake very sluggish. In addition, off-the-shelf mineral oil has additives, perfumes and different boiling points, all of which can cause brake failure. USE ONLY MAGURA BLOOD IN YOUR BRAKE SYSTEM. Use of any other fluid besides Magura Blood mineral oil will void your warranty. (HERE)"


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

personally I got the 1 ltr bottle from CRC for 15 EUR
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5620

and have done various brakes sets and I still have more than half left...


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

Hey, now there is some useful information. Thank you. I did actually notice that the drugstore mineral oil looked thicker.

Guess it is a good thing that I am bleeding my rear brake again before todays ride.



crisillo said:


> Yeah PVD has great info there....
> 
> especially this part
> 
> ...


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## Dad Man Walking (Sep 7, 2004)

From Wikipedia:
_
There are three basic classes of mineral oils:

* paraffinic oils, based on n-alkanes
* naphthenic oils, based on cycloalkanes
* aromatic oils, based on aromatic hydrocarbons _

So which one did you get, exactly? And which one did Shimano spec? At what viscosity, with what additives?

Brakes are kinda important to me...not something I'd personally want to screw around with trying to save a couple of bucks. My suggestion to the OP is to drink a few tablespoons of the drugstore stuff...that should clear your mind a bit D ) and get some approved mineral oil from Shimano, Magura, or Finish Line. Worry about saving money somewhere else.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

*Does anybody know?*

If i can use Shimano's mineral oil in Magura's disc brakes??


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

Okay, I'm going to go ride. I'm sure I'm going to plummet to the to the bottom of earth do to my ignorance. Pardon me for posting. I will not longer waste your time.

You should look on the Shimano brake fluid bottle in order to find out which mineral oil they spec'd for their brakes. I no longer have any bottles to check. 

Good day! Time to ride.

Oh ya, and FLAME ON!!



Dad Man Walking said:


> From Wikipedia:
> _
> There are three basic classes of mineral oils:
> 
> ...


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

I used drug store mineral oil for a year in XT brakes with no problems at all.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Dang, how cheap do you wanna be?*



BIGfatED said:


> Just wanted to give a heads up to people running hydraulic disc brakes compatible with mineral oil.
> 
> Shimano charges something like $25 for a 16oz bottle. Well, I went to my local PWT store (you choose: Target, Wal-Mart, Kmart, Walgreens....) and picked up a 16oz. bottle of mineral oil for $1.52. Mind you the Shimano brake fluid is pink/red, and the mineral oil I purchased is clear. If it makes you feel better you can purchase some red food coloring and make yours pink/red as well.
> 
> ...


I mean, really.... that $20 bottle ($20 at my LBS) of brake fluid is like a liter. THat should last you many many many bleeds and fluid changes. I would be surprised if you emptied that bottle in less than 5 years for personal use even with multiple bikes with Shimano hydraulic brakes.

I'll bet they are just repackaging some industrial supply mineral fluid, but at least you know when you are buying it at a huge markup in a Shimano bottle, you are actually getting the stuff Shimano engineers designed their stuff to work with, like. (bad grammar, I know, but you know what I mean)

Personally, its not worth it to me. If they start acting funky, that is one less thing to point a finger at as a source of the problem. Maybe I am throwing money out the window, but it isn't much money. If I blow $350 on a set of brakes, another $20 in brake fluid isn't going to kill me.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

BuickGN said:


> I'm pretty sure Pentosin is synthetic.


Incorrect. My history with Audi goes back almost 20 years now.

11s is the synthetic/red one. "S" stands for "Synthetic".

You can get some form of Pentosin as Febi Bilstein hydraulic fluid for Mercedes, Castrol for Jaguar, Lubro Moly Audi/VW Zentralhydralik Flussigheit, and a host of others on the cheap.

The Pentosin is commonly available online at those storefront auto parts suppliers that are similar to QBP storefronts.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

nnn said:


> I've head citroen power steering fluid is normal mineral oil with the right viscosity (very important) but have never tried it.


Incorrect, look above. They use a mineral type of hydraulic fluid that is specially engineered with viscosity additives, anti-foaming agents, seal neutral chemistry, and additives to handle high temperatures.

At one point, I also tried to get an industrial supplier to make a substitute on the cheap, also using my chemistry education, and it was not possible due to the combination of additives. They put all the ingredients on the backs of cans of Pentosin, which I left in the US.


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## AW_ (Jan 3, 2006)

I literally trust my brakes with my life. I'm gonna buy the OEM fluid when it comes to mineral oil. As for DOT 3/4, well, yeah, I'll get that at the auto parts store because it is more or less generic.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

sxotty said:


> I used drug store mineral oil for a year in XT brakes with no problems at all.





AW_ said:


> I literally trust my brakes with my life. I'm gonna buy the OEM fluid when it comes to mineral oil. As for DOT 3/4, well, yeah, I'll get that at the auto parts store because it is more or less generic.


Im sorry but some posts seriously border on ignorant.  
Are you guys even reading the previous posts??
I posted this earlier... http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm


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## AW_ (Jan 3, 2006)

PsyCro said:


> Im sorry but some posts seriously border on ignorant.
> Are you guys even reading the previous posts??
> I posted this earlier... http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm


Just curious, what specifically did I say that you thought was ignorant? I read all the posts.


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

*The OP strikes again....*

Ignorance is relative. I read your link PsyCro and appreciate the information. It is nice to know someone has taken the time to research all of these mineral oils, and has been able to decipher the differences between them.

Voicing that by putting mineral oil, with a greater viscosity, into a brake system, will have that brake system end in utter failure is ignorant. Some posts in this thread were very informative, some not so much.

My solution to purchasing mineral oil on the *cheap* is not flawless, but neither is using Stan's Notubes on 29er rims, and people are still taking the risk. Blowing a tire off of a rim at speed could put you in the hospital and in a heap of trouble. Running brakes with "drug store mineral oil"...........I see it as less of a risk.

This is a public forum and you take things with a grain of salt. Live and learn, go against the grain, and look for new and different solutions. Such is life.

Now stop reading this stupid post and go ride your bike. Just make sure your brakes are dialed.:thumbsup:

BFE

PS. I want to post an apology to Sghost, because Pentosin CHF7 fluid (mineral oil, not synthetic) seems to be a very good solution to finding a cheap alternative to Shimano mineral oil. Thanks



PsyCro said:


> Im sorry but some posts seriously border on ignorant.
> Are you guys even reading the previous posts??
> I posted this earlier... http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

AW_ said:


> Just curious, what specifically did I say that you thought was ignorant? I read all the posts.


Ahh... i just figured that you didnt read up and considered the oem stuff the only solution. So, i guess it just makes you stubborn instead  .


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## ckoffend (Oct 7, 2012)

*Mineral Oil is not hydraulic oil*

Lot's of talk about the use of straight mineral oil vs. hydraulic oil of a mineral oil base. I am not sure I would be so quick to go to a straight mineral oil. My company (non bike related) makes heavy industrial equipment, some of our equipment incorporates hydraulic systems and we provide explicit specifications of the type of hydraulic oil that should be used for proper operation, safety and longevity of the equipment (seals and pump, etc. . .).

What Shimano calls for is a Mineral Oil based hydraulic oil, not mineral oil! To say that these two are the same thing is not accurate. Just because somebody can stick straight mineral oil from the pharmacy in their brakes and they work does not mean that this is the correct approach.

Your hydraulic brake system would also work is you put straight water in as well, understanding how a hydraulic systems operations teaches you this. The water will allow for compression and the operation of the brakes - but I won't recommend water either.

If you can get the Shimano labeled material for $30 for a half litre, that isn't a bad price. Castrol makes a mineral based hydraulic oil, it lists for $12 for a half litre. Dont' know if the viscosity is the same, additives the same or similar enough or not. But I would suggest that if you are going to not buy the Shimano, then I would at least buy the right kind of product and not to confuse straight mineral oil with a mineral oil based hydraulic oil.


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## Spicy.Mike (Jul 16, 2012)

Been writing around in some other threads. 

Here's what I said:
I've done some research now. I think this is a great topic, kind of funny to see all these year old posts and how ppl thought using drug store pure M-Oil was good...lmao. 

Pentosin actually differs a bit from most hydraulic fluids with its rating @ "18 [email protected]/6.0 [email protected]/VI 340." So it's thinner than Castrol Brand (and Shimano)

What's great about Pentosin is that its functional down to -40c. You'd be frozen by then and dead. Also, it'll work to 110c, past boiling point. So, great for variable environments..not that you should be in those environments in the first place....You get what I'm saying. Plus, another article confirmed that Pentosin is of a lighter WT (ratings compared), more so than other fluids, including Shimano's M-Oil. One should actually see an increase in performance from using Pentosin 7.1 or LHM Plus (Green). Do NOT use the CHF11S.

Btw, Pentosin 7.1 is not synthetic, CHF11S mix is. 

Pure Mineral Oil from Drug Stores is NOT the right kind. It's much heavier (wt) and you'll lose performance, if not degrade internal housings. So unless you want your brakes to: A) Smell Good like its your guys first date, B) Shi* Pistons Out, C) Stop working/Work too slow as you fly off the cliff, I would not use Drug Store M-Oil. It's not even rated as a HYDRAULIC FLUID. Get it? Hydraulic Mineral Oil vs. Pure (Laxative) Mineral Oil...hmmm. 

Pentosin 7.1 is perfect. Do people really think that Auto-Grade Hydra M-Oil CANNOT handle being in a simple sealed Brake system? It's not like Auto-Grade M-Oil wants to degrade your internal housing components lol. If anything Pentosin is a higher grade made to handle higher pressures with the RIGHT additives. It'll work, so stop buying Rebranded Mineral Oil as Shimano goes to the bank laughing at our stupidity and ignorance. Open your eyes, and don't fall for the BS. :smallviolin:

Pentosin is the way to go and has my FULL PERSONAL Recommendation. I actually drive a Mercedes so naturally as per recommended I have a Pentosin 7.1, I was happy when I figured all this out and now my Shimano Saint M810 brakes are even more responsive/stronger to the point where I feel they'll rip out my rotors...:thumbsup:


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## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

To stay in the spirit of the posts, why would you want to use mineral oil in a brake. Ever seen a car/motorcycle with mineral oil?

DOT fluid all the way, babe.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Been using Pentosin for 5 or more years in my brakes without issues other than better performance in the cold. 

I recently used Pentosin in one of my fox shocks during service, cause I can..and its been several months as my main ride and the shock damper is good so far. 

DOT fluid is best when its used to make use of its high boiling point. I've worked on so many of my autos brakes in the past 35 years and i hate the stuff..kinda like baby wipes, hate the smell. And it hates paint. It inhales water. Not as slippery as mineral either.


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## ckoffend (Oct 7, 2012)

Learux, to answer you question, yes! There are actually quite a few cars that use mineral oil based hydraulic fluid - BMW, Audi, Jaguar and others.

The use of a mineral oil based hyd. fluid is determined based on the parts used in the hydraulic system and the materials that are suitable for them to be exposed to.

Spicy, I ended up with the Castrol HSMO (hydraulic system mineral oil) which is a Jaguar specified part (actually has a Jaguar part number). My BMW dealer no longer carries the Pantosin as it was discontinued for use in their cars about 2 decades ago and has been replaced on newer cars (making it tougher to find, but certainly not impossible).

Not one single car parts store had either product in my area!

In reality, there are a lot of fluids that will allow the brakes to work. The bigger question is which of them are safe for your seals and valves over time. To date, I would be 100% comfortable with three products that I know of, Shimano, Castro HSMO and the Pentosin (suitable 2 choices as referenced by Spicy).

The Castrol HSMO at the Jaguar shop was $7.50 for 500 ml.


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## Spicy.Mike (Jul 16, 2012)

^ Castrol has very similar properties to Pentosin. Yeah, all the new cars are switching over to synthetic I believe. And our 'Cedes uses a lot of that stuff up, so we bought a 6L pack...hence my surplus lol. Should last me a lifetime. But Castrol is just as good, no doubt. 

I've seen Pentosin in my local stores, but online has the best deals for cheap as $25 for 6L.

And not a bad price. Shimano for 50ml is like 12 dollars lol.


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

I have been tinkering with Euro Cars for about 15 years now and have seen Pentosin go from CHF 7.1 to CHF 11S to the new standard, CHF 202. 

I love shimano brakes (XTR M988) and ALSO love riding in the cold. Below 20 F I have experienced not only sketchy braking but pure lack of braking with the OEM fluid. This is a major safety issue with OEM fluid so I'm not that afraid of trying something new. I flushed my power steering in my Audi over Thanksgiving and had some extra 202. This IS a synthetic. It's designed to be compatible with the older mineral based CHF 7.1 fluid (that fluid has been discontinued, so it has to be) 

Last night I bled a spare Shimano XT M785 with the 202 and installed it as my rear brake. What I can tell you now is that lever actuation feels identical at 65 degrees F and there are obviously no leaks. Hopefully we'll ride this week and hopefully it will be super cold so I can compare. 

What I won't know is long term stability. CHF 202 is used in such a variety of cars I'm thinking it will be just fine on the seals of these brakes. CHF 11s (the older yet still fully synthetic stuff) looks to have a slightly lower kinematic viscosity than the CHF 202 so it may work even better. 

Stay tuned.


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## Spicy.Mike (Jul 16, 2012)

nmanchin said:


> I have been tinkering with Euro Cars for about 15 years now and have seen Pentosin go from CHF 7.1 to CHF 11S to the new standard, CHF 202.
> 
> I love shimano brakes (XTR M988) and ALSO love riding in the cold. Below 20 F I have experienced not only sketchy braking but pure lack of braking with the OEM fluid. This is a major safety issue with OEM fluid so I'm not that afraid of trying something new. I flushed my power steering in my Audi over Thanksgiving and had some extra 202. This IS a synthetic. It's designed to be compatible with the older mineral based CHF 7.1 fluid (that fluid has been discontinued, so it has to be)
> 
> ...


pinkbike(dot)com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=140344

Here's my write-up I did a long time ago. Still using 7.1S and in XTR M988 w/ 810 Calipers. Been 7months so far, no problems what so ever. Still solid braking and the noticeably consistent power over temperatures. Now, I know they discontinued the one I use, but I suspect the performance will be the same. The qualities of any Hydro M-Oil is that they offer the system excellent corrosion superiority vs. DOT. So doubt anything will come up as I have had anything wrong for this time.

Now, can I mix the 7.1s with the new 202? Cause I know the Synthetic wasn't suppose to be mixed with the older 7.1 or LHM Plus series?


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## bradams (Feb 6, 2013)

Rocking. This thread makes me happy


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## nmanchin (Oct 30, 2009)

Spicy.Mike, the 202 bottle says to NOT mix with older 7.1. 

The bad news is the brake I was testing with CHF 202 still freezes up in the cold. It was only around 25 degree when I was out this week. I guess I'll just throw on those Elixir's I have sitting around. C'mon Shimano, give us a fluid we can use year around. 

Good news is, no seal swelling or leaks with the Pentosin CHF 202. I would use the CHF 11s next time. It's a wee bit closer to the shimano fluid viscosity.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

So I had to redo my hydraulic line to my front brake. Right before a ride, I find out I don't have enough fluid because I wasted on a botched bleed. No time to go to LBS. So I went to drug store and bought some Johnson and Johnson mineral oil.

It actually worked. But I noticed the viscosity sucked when it got cold out. And who knows what it'll do when I'm on a long downhill.

In any case, I bought a 1liter jug of the Shimano oil for $20. I think I still have 0.9l left...probably enough to bleed brakes for the next decade or so...


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Anyone ever had an issue with XT brakes leaking at the lever piston after useing Pentosin 7.1? Used it for about a year and now have a leak at the lever. Wondering if Pentosin causes issues with the Shimano Seals. 

Thanks.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

tagged


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## shwndh (Nov 20, 2004)

I just filled my Shimano BR-M486 brakes with Audi power steering fluid. It's just a mineral oil and the viscosity is the same. So far so good, my braking feels strong.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Seriously Drug store mineral oil is just plain stupid. Might as well just pee in there. It's fluid right? And free? 

You can put whatever you like in your brakes, they will fail and you can sell em to some ignorant buyer as "needs a bleed" and be on to your next set. That's grounds for a time-out.

Buy the right brake fluid, hell get it cheap and post it here, but don't spread the idea that this Drug Store Mineral oil is any where near ok. For the sake of the ignorant readers among us.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> So I had to redo my hydraulic line to my front brake. Right before a ride, I find out I don't have enough fluid because I wasted on a botched bleed. No time to go to LBS. So I went to drug store and bought some Johnson and Johnson mineral oil.
> 
> It actually worked. But I noticed the viscosity sucked when it got cold out. And who knows what it'll do when I'm on a long downhill.
> 
> In any case, I bought a 1liter jug of the Shimano oil for $20. I think I still have 0.9l left...probably enough to bleed brakes for the next decade or so...





eshew said:


> Seriously Drug store mineral oil is just plain stupid. Might as well just pee in there. It's fluid right? And free?
> 
> You can put whatever you like in your brakes, they will fail and you can sell em to some ignorant buyer as "needs a bleed" and be on to your next set. That's grounds for a time-out.
> 
> Buy the right brake fluid, hell get it cheap and post it here, but don't spread the idea that this Drug Store Mineral oil is any where near ok. For the sake of the ignorant readers among us.


I read:
_Right before a ride, I find out I don't have enough fluid because I wasted on a botched bleed. No time to go to LBS._
Seems like a good idea.
In that case any mineral oil will do.
But if you 've got time on your side, just order the real thing.

(instead of peeing in your brakes, I would use plain water)


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## G (Feb 22, 2010)

What about DOT5? Its OK for my HARLEY. 
Will it mess up the brakes on my mobile if it calls for mineral oil?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Don't know any bikes that use DOT5. DOT4 and DOT5.1 yes, but not DOT5. One reason for using the mfg spec fluid is to make sure the seals and stuff are compatible, and don't get eaten up by the fluid. That and to ensure optimum performance.

Generally speaking, the simple and easy path is to just get desensitized to spending $10-20 for various fluids and small replacement parts etc. to fix your bike, if you want it to work at its best without the worries of "surprise consequences" and voided warranties. There's also chain lube, fork bath fluid, damper fluid, air piston fluid, tire sealant, carbon "grease" or friction paste, various greases for different parts of the bike... buy each once and they should last years, but pay attention to shelf life (ex. DOT5.1). Not to mention all the specialty tools, like for the BB cups, the chain, spoke nipples, etc. Hard to be cheap if you want the convenience of doing maintenance in your own mini-shop... perhaps try to research to see if there's a bike co-op near you, which might stock the mineral oil (and/or other fluids, specialty tools, spare parts). Doing all this research to save $10 or so over the course of 2+ years... I dunno, I'd research for a big purchase, but I think my time is more valuable than this.

Looked up the Pentosin 7.1 and found a thread on it: - Pentosin Hydraulic Mineral Oil - Save Money & Gain Performance - - Pinkbike Forum Dang, spicy mike is spreading the word all over. This, I'll pass on, but I'll try that Torco equiv over Fox green 10wt.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

DOT5 fluid damages some car brake seals. Don't out that stuff in brake system made for mineral oil.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*DOT 5 is a silicone based brake fluid. Not to be confused with DOT 5.1 which is a polyethylene glycol based fluid. These two are not compatible.*


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

relevant thread. user has issues with shimano brakes after using drug store mineral oil
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/r...ines-when-bleeding-m785-xt-brakes-905895.html


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## booradley007 (Oct 20, 2015)

*not so simple*



BIGfatED said:


> Err, I don't drive a BMW. I ride a bike with hydraulic brakes, which call for mineral oil to be used for brake fluid. My brakes don't need Pentosin CHF 7.1, just mineral oil.
> 
> I bought mineral oil, exactly. If you need further clarification on what I bought you can consult the link below.
> 
> ...


Pentosin 7.1 IS mineral oil.Pentosin 11 is ynthetic. Fork and suspension oil ARE mineral oil. These oils are typically 5-15wt viscosity. Drugstore mineral oil is much thicker. Will it work? Yes, but brake response will be sluggish and the levers will feel spongy. It may also boil under heavy usage. However after much research I have found a cheap source of compatible mineral oil. Coastal hydraulic jack oil iso 32 mineral oil and contains the same stabilizers and anti foaming agents as suspension fluids and has a high flash point for brake systems. It is sold at Auto zone for $5 a quart. ERRRR better have someone take a look at your speech tick ERRR


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## slip20 (Mar 19, 2009)

Weird. Just read this thread. Ridden xtr and xt brakes exclusively for 8 years and 10000 miles+ on drugstore mineral oil. I guess I'm stupid. 0 problems. No replaces seals, original xtr that I bought 7 years ago have been flawless, maybe 2 bleeds in 6-7000 miles?
After reading this thread, though, think I'll get some Castrol.


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## BuickGN (Aug 25, 2008)

It means you likely haven't gotten your fluid very hot which is not surprising as Shimano has taken many precautions to keep heat out of the fluid. My fluid typically runs less than 100F over ambient when pushed fairly hard on cross country style riding with several decent hills to go down. I'm 240lbs before gear. Even water would work for me in most instances. 

But, there are some really fun downhill runs with 8,000' descents hitting over 41mph in places where the rotors hit over 700F and the fluid hits 350F+. That's where you would run into trouble. 

The other problem is viscosity index. Manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to provide a fluid with a very high VI. The goal is to have a fluid that stays close to the same viscosity no matter what the temperature is. You want it to thin less when hot and thicken less when cold. This is essential for consistent performance when it can go from ambient to 300F in 5 minutes in the caliper and literally thin out 10x its original viscosity and this is for a good oil. The cheaper stuff can literally thin out in the order of 100x its original viscosity. 

Many liquids will work and feel great. It's not until you push the thermal limits that you run into unexpected and dangerous problems.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow. Old thread resurrected. 

I bought pentosin about 4 years ago and am using in xt brakes. They have worked great and without issues. Biggest reason was I wanted to use them on a fat bike in cold winter conditions. I had a set laying around and didn't want to buy new brakes. 

The pentosin 7.1 Has been working great the entire time. I've ridden in terms down to -20F without significant performance degradation.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Pentosin 7.1 is a commonly accepted mineral based hydraulic brake fluid that has been 'tribal' accepted for many years. Unfortunately for those who use it, it has been discontinued, but can still be found on FleaBay on occasion. The point is that it was designed to be a hydraulic brake fluid with corrosion inhibitors and stabilizers as part of its design, not as a drug store laxative and make-up remover.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

This still baffles me.

You drop $2000, 3000, 4000, 6000 on a rig and you go cheap on the fluid for the brakes the mfg specifies??? ok a shimano bottle cost you $15 more than an automotive brand. At least you know the shimano stuff will work correctly.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Yes! I bought a bottle of Shimano fluid and it lasted a few years. $5 a year!? What a ripoff!! I'm going to Walmart to buy a 5 gallon jug!


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Prophet Julio said:


> Yes! I bought a bottle of Shimano fluid and it lasted a few years. $5 a year!? What a ripoff!! I'm going to Walmart to buy a 5 gallon jug!


Ha...yeah this is quite accurate. Truthfully I wasn't opposed to the shimano because of price. It was low temp performance. Otherwise, I could care less about a few bucks on approved stuff. Which I also have a bottle of and works great on my fs bike.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Prophet Julio said:


> Yes! I bought a bottle of Shimano fluid and it lasted a few years. $5 a year!? What a ripoff!! I'm going to Walmart to buy a 5 gallon jug!


Since Mineral Oil is hydrophobic and does not absorb water from it's environment, one of the great advantages it has over DOT fluid is that once opened it can be stored indefinitely.

Sometimes it's better to remain silent and thought a fool,
than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> Since Mineral Oil is hydrophobic and does not absorb water from it's environment, one of the great advantages it has over DOT fluid is that once opened it can be stored indefinitely.
> 
> Sometimes it's better to remain silent and thought a fool,
> than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt.


I always get irked at having to buy a new bottle every time, use half and then tossing the old bottle once I get a new one for the yearly bleed.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> I always get irked at having to buy a new bottle every time, use half and then tossing the old bottle once I get a new one for the yearly bleed.


Why do you buy a new bottle?


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> Why do you buy a new bottle?


I was writing about the DOT fluid bottles, not the mineral oil ones.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

There's plenty of good reasons to having brakes that use mineral oil brake fluid.


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## matorr2 (Apr 7, 2010)

*The Consequence*



sxotty said:


> I used drug store mineral oil for a year in XT brakes with no problems at all.


I'm glad to see that you had no problems after a year of actually testing the 'Cheap Stuff'.

With many products, the manufacture will play on your fear in order to get you to buy their products. For example, in this country, many oil retailers will try to convince you that you need to change your car's oil every three thousand miles. In Europe, using the same oil, in the same type of car, same driving conditions, the recommended oil change is eight thousand miles. I change the oil (Amsoil synthetic) in my vehicles once a year, or every 25,000 miles. I've done this for 15 years and never had any problems. My 2 stroke dirt bikes recommend a 50:1 synthetic mix ratio, I mix a 100:1 ratio of gas to oil for better performance and protection, using a superior, less expensive product (Amsoil synthetic). Again no problems. I've also used vegetable oil in the same 2 stroke engines, at a 20:1 mix ratio and had no damage to the engine. The vegetable oil produced much more carbon, but it worked fine.

The point I'm making is that different variations will work. Some may work better than others, but they will work. One just has to decide if they are okay with the overall performance, and accept the consequence if the product fails.

I think your chances of winning a $50,000,000 lottery is greater than the chance of the complete failure of both front and rear brakes, at the same time. If your okay with the consequences, go for it!

Because of your testing, I will also use the 'Cheap Stuff'. I'm okay with the 50 millisecond delay in stopping, and the addition time it will take to bleed the air from the system, due to it's viscosity. I also don't ride hard enough for my calipers to reach a temperature of 400 degrees F. If it does become a problem, I will then change it out. I then will have spent $1.52 to learn something, rather that $25.00 to learn nothing, and played into the manufacture's fear tactics. It's not about the money, it's about being lied to...


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

matorr2 said:


> I'm glad to see that you had no problems after a year of actually testing the 'Cheap Stuff'.
> 
> With many products, the manufacture will play on your fear in order to get you to buy their products. For example, in this country, many oil retailers will try to convince you that you need to change your car's oil every three thousand miles. In Europe, using the same oil, in the same type of car, same driving conditions, the recommended oil change is eight thousand miles. I change the oil (Amsoil synthetic) in my vehicles once a year, or every 25,000 miles. I've done this for 15 years and never had any problems. My 2 stroke dirt bikes recommend a 50:1 synthetic mix ratio, I mix a 100:1 ratio of gas to oil for better performance and protection, using a superior, less expensive product (Amsoil synthetic). Again no problems. I've also used vegetable oil in the same 2 stroke engines, at a 20:1 mix ratio and had no damage to the engine. The vegetable oil produced much more carbon, but it worked fine.
> 
> ...


none of you are being lied to

stop being paranoid. and some of you are acting paranoid by wording things like you do

manufacturers tell you to use one specific thing because they, the engineers, and their lawyers agree, it is ideal. if they add variables like: 'go use whatever oil you want' they have no control of the quality or characteristics of what you use, and if the safety system system blows up and you break your neck, they'll be liable. so, for any critical safety system of any type, to actually be sold to consumers, it must be tightly controlled with known and tested materials. they are not intentionally screwing you, they are trying to make sure your brakes actually work, can be serviced according to guides they publish, and line up with engineering studies they spend millions on, and avoid spurious lawsuits when you screw up.

it is rocket science, to some degree, to sell a million brake sets and have very few injuries and deaths as a direct result of a manufacturer mistake.

if you can out-science them, have at it, use whatever fluid you want, on the cheap.

I'll stick with setting my brakes up and servicing them according to manufacturer instructions, and for craps sake on 4 bikes I have with hydros I opened my brake lines up about 3 times total in 4 years. one shimano or magura blood purchase lasts me forever. your mileage may vary. I only go through pads a lot, but the lines don't need to be opened often unless I am doing a complete bike teardown


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

matorr2 said:


> I'm glad to see that you had no problems after a year of actually testing the 'Cheap Stuff'.
> 
> With many products, the manufacture will play on your fear in order to get you to buy their products. For example, in this country, many oil retailers will try to convince you that you need to change your car's oil every three thousand miles. In Europe, using the same oil, in the same type of car, same driving conditions, the recommended oil change is eight thousand miles. I change the oil (Amsoil synthetic) in my vehicles once a year, or every 25,000 miles. I've done this for 15 years and never had any problems. My 2 stroke dirt bikes recommend a 50:1 synthetic mix ratio, I mix a 100:1 ratio of gas to oil for better performance and protection, using a superior, less expensive product (Amsoil synthetic). Again no problems. I've also used vegetable oil in the same 2 stroke engines, at a 20:1 mix ratio and had no damage to the engine. The vegetable oil produced much more carbon, but it worked fine.
> 
> ...


Yeah, well. That was 10 years ago!


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Since this thread was started Finish Line started selling their mineral oil. 4 oz for $10. And has been working perfectly for thousands of people. I built up my new road bike with it and just bled my mountain brakes with it last month. So far so good.

I have not tested it in below freezing temperatures yet. If it solves the slow lever return on my winter mountain bike rides I will be ecstatic.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

matorr2 said:


> Because of your testing, I will also use the 'Cheap Stuff'. I'm okay with the 50 millisecond delay in stopping, and the addition time it will take to bleed the air from the system, due to it's viscosity. I also don't ride hard enough for my calipers to reach a temperature of 400 degrees F. If it does become a problem, I will then change it out. I then will have spent $1.52 to learn something, rather that $25.00 to learn nothing, and played into the manufacture's fear tactics. It's not about the money, it's about being lied to...


It's often better to remain silent and thought a fool, 
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.



127.0.0.1 said:


> none of you are being lied to
> 
> stop being paranoid. and some of you are acting paranoid by wording things like you do
> 
> ...













92gli said:


> Since this thread was started Finish Line started selling their mineral oil. 4 oz for $10. And has been working perfectly for thousands of people. I built up my new road bike with it and just bled my mountain brakes with it last month. So far so good.
> 
> I have not tested it in below freezing temperatures yet. If it solves the slow lever return on my winter mountain bike rides I will be ecstatic.


I have used the Finish Line mineral oil and it appears to be about the same viscosity as Shimano. I can't tell any difference.

But drug store mineral oil is quiet a bit thicker and I would assume would be a winter time issue. Maybe the drug store stuff is better used as a make-up remover and laxative. Maybe Matorr needs a laxative.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Anyone archived the PVD brake fluid stuff?

I'm curious whether his shimano and magura data match mine.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Anyone archived the PVD brake fluid stuff?


Uh...what?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

92gli said:


> Since this thread was started Finish Line started selling their mineral oil. 4 oz for $10. And has been working perfectly for thousands of people. I built up my new road bike with it and just bled my mountain brakes with it last month. So far so good.
> 
> I have not tested it in below freezing temperatures yet. If it solves the slow lever return on my winter mountain bike rides I will be ecstatic.


$10 for 4 oz. of Finish Line, or a liter of Shimano for $18 on sale at Jenson's (it's on sale a lot).
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Brake-Fluid-1-Liter


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I just purchased my 2nd liter of Shimano Brake fluid in 15 or 16 years. I paid $17 for it. I really didn't think I would ever use all of the previous liter, but I finally did. I think the majority of it went to servicing friends brakes and as small container hand outs to others in need. I was happy to make it available given the minimal amount that I was using. 

At $17 for a liter, why consider buying anything else?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I just wish they came in a medium sized bottle. Its either those tiny bottles, or a multi decade supply. 

Its either buy 1.6oz, or 33oz. They should come in 4 or 12oz bottles.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I agree completely! Great idea.

A 1/4 liter (about 9 ounces) would be all that I need for a while.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

The size that would be most cost effective for the customer is likely not the sizes most profit effective for Shimano.  Selling small bottles, they sell many and make a huge markup. Selling big bottles, they make a large dollar amount selling you more than you need. They probably optimize the sizes to make the most money without excessively offending the customer. You could subvert their plan by going in with a number of friends and splitting up a big bottle.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> I just wish they came in a medium sized bottle. Its either those tiny bottles, or a multi decade supply.
> 
> Its either buy 1.6oz, or 33oz. They should come in 4 or 12oz bottles.


Seriously. This is my bottle bought about 8 years ago. (can't even find the order it's been so long)


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Anyone archived the PVD brake fluid stuff?
> 
> I'm curious whether his shimano and magura data match mine.


I think it's still available: https://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hydraulic_Mineral_Oil

Tim


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