# Potts?



## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Ok, last post deleted, but hey, you began sharing the info, so why pull it away? I'm sure you have your reasons. 

Anyhow, this was added to the ++bay listing:

On Mar-26-09 at 13:48:11 PDT, seller added the following information:
I have been contacted by the original purchaser of this bike. I was understanding of his situation and tried to be accommodating. I told him I would return the bike when he produced proof. He claims to have had it stolen from him 16 years ago, but can produce no evidence of this. He has however attempted to slander my identity and sabotage this auction. I have reported him and his actions to ebay security. I would never sell something I wasn't legally entitled to.

I'm not the person involved, so perhaps I can share the above.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

But apparently would sell something he was not morally entitled to...............


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## ernestrome (Aug 1, 2008)

mechagouki said:


> But apparently would sell something he was not morally entitled to...............


Hey man that bike you're selling, that's mine that is. Yeah, no sorry, I don't have any proof, but it's mine, honest guv. No sorry I don't even remember the serial number, or have any pictures of it. What's that? You won't end the auction and send it to me? What the hell is wrong with you?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Bad karma.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Reading the seller's words, 5 words come to mind

Last refuge of a scoundrel

I would've at least stopped the auction and straightened the problem out before proceeding.

+1 to sfgirl


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

ernestrome said:


> Hey man that bike you're selling, that's mine that is. Yeah, no sorry, I don't have any proof, but it's mine, honest guv. No sorry I don't even remember the serial number, or have any pictures of it. What's that? You won't end the auction and send it to me? What the hell is wrong with you?


Hmmmm, having Steve Potts confirm you as the original owner gives you a fair degree of credibility I would have thought.

You seem kind of upset about this ernestrome, you the seller BAC?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

If you found a Mercedes on the side of the road, would you take it home and declare it yours?
No! You would assume it was stolen and go to the police.

You would also show bidders the picture with the rust spots under the bottom bracket.


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## ernestrome (Aug 1, 2008)

mechagouki said:


> Hmmmm, having Steve Potts confirm you as the original owner gives you a fair degree of credibility I would have thought.
> 
> You seem kind of upset about this ernestrome, you the seller BAC?


No, not upset. I just think it's quite a stretch to think you'll recover your bike 16 years later. When you buy any VRC bike, or nearly any bike for that matter, how could you ascertain that it hadn't been stolen at some point in the past, with a number of normal sales following?

Mind you I wasn't aware that the builder confirmed him as original owner, what with the thread being deleted.


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## ernestrome (Aug 1, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> If you found a Mercedes on the side of the road, would you take it home and declare it yours?
> No! You would assume it was stolen and go to the police.
> 
> You would also show bidders the picture with the rust spots under the bottom bracket.


Cars, due to their legal documents of ownership and transfer thereof, do not make a useful analogy here.

Has the seller claimed to have found this abandoned and then proceeded to sell?


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

ernestrome said:


> Cars, due to their legal documents of ownership and transfer thereof, do not make a useful analogy here.
> 
> Has the seller claimed to have found this abandoned and then proceeded to sell?


He has given two stories about how he came into possession of the bike. One he found it beside the road. The other was that he bought it used (garage sale I think).


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

ernestrome said:


> Cars, due to their legal documents of ownership and transfer thereof, do not make a useful analogy here.
> 
> Has the seller claimed to have found this abandoned and then proceeded to sell?


That was his original story, when he realised the unsteady legal ground on which he stood he changed it to "I bought it at a yard-sale".

Not sure why no-one has asked for details of the yard sale seller who may have more information about where the bike has been for the last 16 years - i would imagine you'd remember exactly the location of a yard sale where you bought a vintage Potts............


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Here the seller claimed he found it
http://www.oldroads.com/d_mtb_def.asp?rec_count=1

He repeated the claim on the VATB newslist.

When he was told that if he found it he had to turn it over to the police and would need to give it to the rightful owner if he or she identified themselves, he changed his story and claimed he found it at a garage sale.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

ernestrome said:


> Cars, due to their legal documents of ownership and transfer thereof, do not make a useful analogy here.
> 
> Has the seller claimed to have found this abandoned and then proceeded to sell?


"thereof" is the last refuge of the scoundrel 

j/k


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Bad karma.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

His karma stole my Pottsma.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

bushpig said:


> His karma stole my Pottsma.


your karma ran over my dogma

(trade me bikes!)


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## ernestrome (Aug 1, 2008)

bushpig said:


> "thereof" is the last refuge of the scoundrel
> 
> j/k


And being pursuant to etc etc

I left the law because I ain't one, said, I left the law because i ain't one. Scoundrel that is.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

The dude is a total nitwitt as evidenced by the fact he's selling because 'he can't find brakes for it'! The difference between Ernestromes thought process and the sellers is vast.

-Schmitty-


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Scumbag seller.

I'm not saying the seller actually stole the bike, but still...a changing story is a bad one.

My 2 cents:

I've never stolen a bike, or had one stolen. But as a kid, I got into several fist fights with friends of mine who did steal them. Yeah and lost many of those fights too. My pals would think I was nuts: why take a beating for someone else's bike?

As an adult, I stopped a few I saw in progress.

After racing became popular in New England, thieves started going to races, making a fun time a lousy one for many.


To me, it's just plain wrong. Maybe because it's such an easy thing to do, it becomes a clear moral choice: do it or not. 

Nothing lower than a bike thief. Maybe a dog thief. (of course, any crime to humanity is lower).


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Seems like at one point in yesterday's thread the road side find and the yard sale merged to become a road side yard sale. Could be my faulty memory though.

I think the guy should be duct taped to a chair and forced to watch the unfunny episodes of "My Name is Earl" (like last night's episode) until he realizes what karma is all about.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*You are correct sir*

I think gypsies were selling it.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Shayne said:


> I think gypsies were selling it.


take that back

leave my people out of this


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Withdrawn*



hollister said:


> leave my people out of this


and now feverishly cleaning the coffee off everything on my desk


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Here's my two cents. I am completely dumbstruck by irrationality exhibited in life. I find it hard to believe why people can't be rational and talk things out.

This view I have led me to email the seller. Hope I wasn't out of line. I sent him this:

*Man, that bike is stolen. The least you could do is sell it back to the original owner for what you have in it.*

He responded with:
*The original owner has proved he is the original owner. Nothing else. Upon receiving a police report with serial numbers, I would gladly return the bike.*

I replied with:
*Ok. But if he can't get the police report, which is understandable considering the amount of time that has passed, then you should at least be willing to work with him. It's a moral issue, a gut issue. It's just the right thing to do. I'm sure he'd gladly reimburse you for your expenses and time involved. It's honestly wrong to continue with the auction when the bike is clearly stolen. You can be as stubborn as you want in demanding hard proof, but it's obvious to everyone else involved that it's a stolen bike. It seems like your desire to make a buck overshadows your conscience. At the very least, come up with a number that will make you satisfied and sell the bike back to him.*

And he came back with:
*How is it clearly stolen? The ONLY thing that has been made clear to me is that he originally purchased the bike. Nothing else has been proven or made "clear". I originally had every intention of working with this person to get the bike to him even without proof. However, this man seems to want to have the drama surrounding this bike more than the bike it's self. I would not of had a problem with trying to work something out, but before an amount could even be discussed, he threatened me with extortion charges for receiving money for stolen goods. That is not how reasonable people work out anything. I have read his posts on bike forums and he outright lies either to the public or to me, but either way he is not being honest. The story that you are hearing and reading about is obscenely different from the attitude and accusations of the person I have been trying to deal with. Please do not contact me again or I will report you for harassment.*

I feel like some kind of communication breakdown may have happened.


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## fastale (Jul 2, 2007)

What I saw, the dude:

1. found it.
2. bought it at a yard sale for super cheap.
3. could not afford not to sell it after the initial investment.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I don't get why a person would sell their reputation for a grand give or take a few hundred. Small world of bike people. It just makes sense, to me, to do the right thing.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

I get the feeling the guy isn't "bike people", he's just a flipper out to make a buck. Nothing else matters.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

> I have read his posts on bike forums and he outright lies either to the public or to me, but either way he is not being honest. The story that you are hearing and reading about is obscenely different from the attitude and accusations of the person I have been trying to deal with. Please do not contact me again or I will report you for harassment


Hmmmmm, I seem to remember Fillet Brazed Forever asking everyone to leave this man in peace and actually requested the removal of the original thread.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Tough cookie.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Cookie dough.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

MMMMMNN. Coookies.

:0


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*karma karma karma karma karma chameleon, red gold and green, red gold and greeEEen*

I'm the seller of the bike. I've been a mountain biker since the late eighties, as well as a lover of vintage bikes in general. No-one passing judgement on me knows me or the situation and actual correspondence with the original owner. Fact is, he doesn't have evidence to support his claim. I was even willing to work with him at that, until he started acting like a total ass about it, quoting law and making suggestive and coercive statements. There was no reason for him to be communicating to me in this way. I picked up the phone and talked to him about it, I responded to his emails, I emailed Steve Potts, etc. Yet, despite my cooperation and willingness to work with him, his many emails to me took an accusatory and coercive tone. This was fairly infuriating, since I did nothing wrong, basically brought the bike back from the grave, and was ready to hand it over to him. He has no legal claim to the bike and frankly anything else left the table when he started his passive-aggressive B.S. with me. Karma? I believe in karma. IF I take him at his word, he has been paid-out by his insurance company for the bike. That's technically insurance fraud right? One would think that if he wanted to he could find some shred of evidence to support his claim(that it was stolen, not that he owned it). For all the would-be vigilantes and people quick to call me names, consider this: I have probably had 10 bikes go missing over the years(granted nothing too special) I know what it feels like to lose a bike, but I also live in the real world where people typically don't just take your word for it, and if you don't have something to back up your claim, you are S.O.L. I personally, have been screwed-over too many times by taking people at their word. So maybe I'm a bit jaded in that respect I don't know. I do know that if I or anyone else I know went to claim a bike without a police report to back it up, they wouldn't get their bike back. I'm a nit-wit because I can't afford roller-cams? Have you priced them? Do you even know where to buy any? I'd rather put the money towards a 29er myself, but apparently I can't make such a decision without being subject to public ridicule? WTF?



wv_bob said:


> I get the feeling the guy isn't "bike people", he's just a flipper out to make a buck. Nothing else matters.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Shame on you.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*really?*

Seriously "shame on me?" FOR WHAT??????


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

For not baking the cookies!


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Bike was on curb for free at the yard sale. Someone was picking it up as I walked up. I offered to buy it from them. There is your explanation. It wasn't like I found an abandoned lost/bike. I also searched forums and such for stolen Potts and contacted police and came up with nothing. The people talking sh** about rust and such on here are trying to drive the price down. There is surface rust on bare metal. I would be surprised if there wasn't as it was outside here in Oregon. anyone who asks for pictures of any part of the bike has/will receive them.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Um, I asked about the rust and didn't receive pictures. You should see where the people you bought the bike got it. Weird that they would be giving away an expensive bike, doncha think.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Also, I'm confused. Here you said that you found the bike on the side of the curb. http://www.oldroads.com/d_mtb_ra.asp?OQID=719&QuestionNum=719&RID=0

That is what you said on VATB too.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

what's wrong with cookies? doncha like cookies?


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*Because:*



KDXdog said:


> Ok, last post deleted, but hey, you began sharing the info, so why pull it away? I'm sure you have your reasons.
> 
> Because me and my wife had our email bombarded by people quick to jump to a conclusion. It's harassment and were tired of it.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Cool! Post pictures of rust here for us to see. That's so nice of you to offer, Dan!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Because me and my wife had our email bombarded by people quick to jump to a conclusion. It's harassment and were tired of it.


I don't know what you are talking about. I deleted the last thread because the OP (and guy who's stolen bike is on eBay) requested that I do so.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Shortest MTBR VRC membership ever?


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Yes it was on the curb. No, it wasn't abandoned. Yes it was at a yard sale. I didn't go into great detail and it's not like even "IF" I did find it and turn it in to police it would NOT have made it's way back to original owner because a) THERE IS NO POLICE RECORD ON THIS BIKE and b) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I hope not. I would Dan to find me a Cunningham on the side of the road.

EDIT: Oops. I mean at a yard sale.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

and start another...?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

In all seriousness folks.
I'm gonna go to the store to buy stuff to make cookies. Oatmeal raisin. Yep.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Of course not! Peeps are behind you all the way. We hate doing the right thing here. That's probably why I have 8 kids. Oh well. That's a story for another day.

Can you post pictures of the rust spots please?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Yes it was on the curb. No, it wasn't abandoned. Yes it was at a yard sale. I didn't go into great detail and it's not like even "IF" I did find it and turn it in to police it would NOT have made it's way back to original owner because a) THERE IS NO POLICE RECORD ON THIS BIKE and b) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.


I think you are confusing yourself. If it was not like it would not means that it would. And on that I agree with you. If you found it, as you said you did, you are required to turn it in to allow the real owner to identify himself. Turns out the real owner has. Between you, a finder, and the owner whose bike was stolen, the original owner has rightful title. I don't know what you are talking about regarding the statute of limitations unless you are the thief, and I don't think that is what you were trying to say. You found the bike on the 22nd, which is when the clock starts. If the original owner can't get the police report since it is outside of the time that the local PD keeps records, he can prove his story through affidavits (signed statements to the facts). So c'mon, stop being so self serving.

I get it, you felt lucky, you found something that was too good to be true and you want to keep it. Problem is, it isn't at all clear that it is the right thing to do, at least in my opinion.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah, I always make sure I get full background history on everything I pick up at a yard sale...
I don't think they new/cared what it was.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> and start another...?


The OP here isn't the owner of the bike.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Yeah, I always make sure I get full background history on everything I pick up at a yard sale...
> I don't think they new/cared what it was.


Understood, but know that you have knowledge that this bike was stolen in the past perhaps it would make you wonder why the guys at the yardsale were giving it away.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*pictures of rust*

Most if this can be seen in the 12 large images already up, but here ya go.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Thanks, man!


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*this thread*



bushpig said:


> The OP here isn't the owner of the bike.


the OP pulled the plug for a reason, and yet despite that reason it's reposted and me and my family are subject to this. Why Bushpig do you seem to have it in for me?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

It's a conspiracy!:eekster:


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## XR4TI (Sep 6, 2005)

sfgirlonbike said:


> Of course not! Peeps are behind you all the way. We hate doing the right thing here. That's probably why I have 8 kids. Oh well. That's a story for another day.
> 
> Can you post pictures of the rust spots please?


You have 8 kids? That's a lot. I bet it's fun. What do they ride?


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

how does your family come into this?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

It's simple. Put all the peripheral crap aside and look at the situation. You're sitting on a hot bike and the original owner, who it was stolen from, has surfaced. The only right thing to do is to somehow get it back in his hands. The rest is just BS.
JMHO of course.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> the OP pulled the plug for a reason, and yet despite that reason it's reposted and me and my family are subject to this. Why Bushpig do you seem to have it in for me?


I don't have it in for you. I definitely don't think people should be sending you or your family harassing emails.

That said, I don't think you are doing the right thing with the bike and I've laid out my reasons for it. You can do what you want to do.

This discussion is about the facts of what you are doing and it is about a VRC bike. People want to talk about it. If I saw a bike that had been stolen from me up on eBay I'd go nuts. That said, I don't know what you and the owner of the bike talked about and so won't speculate one way or another.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

If I was _beyondfoolishness_, I'd just throw that rusted pos in the dumpster!


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

You have made your opinion blatantly clear. I am not being self serving. The burden of proof is on him. If he came through with an affidavit or something that would be fine. The scenario you are describing does not exist in reality. We have both talked to police about the matter and they said nothing of the sort.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*my family*



uno-speedo said:


> how does your family come into this?


 My wife was scared buy the on-line threats and the multiple harassing emails and asked people to stop. No one listened of course...


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I direct you to Chapter 98, Section 5 of the Oregon statute.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/098.html

It is a civil provision not a criminal provision so it is not under the purview of the police, rather the sheriff of Multanomaha County (civil division). No doubt they will be eager to get their tithe once you have sold the bike in contravention of this provision and then the burden shall be on you.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> My wife was scared buy the on-line threats and the multiple harassing emails and asked people to stop. No one listened of course...


Definitely lame for people to send harassing emails. I'm with you on that.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*Nice, more law quotes*

This would apply if it were lost or abandoned. It was neither. I'm tired of this.



bushpig said:


> I direct you to Chapter 98, Section 5 of the Oregon statute.
> 
> http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/098.html
> 
> It is a civil provision not a criminal provision so it is not under the purview of the police, rather the sheriff of Multanomaha County (civil division). No doubt they will be eager to get their tithe once you have sold the bike in contravention of this provision and then the burden shall be on you.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow. That sucks, Dan. I know some good lawyers! You should have seen the mess I've had to go through to get child support from all my boyfriends!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> This would apply if it were lost or abandoned. It was neither. I'm tired of this.


Sorry, I must have been confused. It was [free/bought] from a [curb/yardsale]. I have to wonder if those poeple will back your story if the sheriff's office comes asking.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

beyondfoolishness said:


> This would apply if it were lost or abandoned. It was neither. I'm tired of this.


Wasn't it abandoned on the curb?

Tired of this? But you're the one that joined MTBR to continue the conversation in the first place. We were happily discussing cookies.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

And child support


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I had a tasty cookie for dinner. Tonnes o' chocolate chips. Yum.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

sfgirlonbike said:


> Wasn't it abandoned on the curb?


It was for sale for free on the curb.


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Right. Email harassment is a silly thing to whine about. I can't tell you how many emails I ignore/delete. It's really not even worth mentioning.

And gutlesswonder/beyondfoolishness, it's really just common sense. It's HIGHLY unlikely someone would contact you about a stolen bike and create this situation unless it really was stolen. You can defend/justify your position all you want, but do you honestly think the original owner is lying? Facts or no facts, the bike you have is clouded in sketchiness because of the way you got it, the documented original owner claiming it stolen, and your reluctance to give it up.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

I have no problem talking to the sheriff. I haven't broken the law. Why are you so certain about the situation? Did you witness the bike being stolen? Do you have the police report? You seem to have all the answers. Did you steal the bike? I mean, you know so much about it and all. Back in in the day you and the boys were out causing trouble and you pillaged this poor guy's bike... Preposterous? Well, you're take on things is equally preposterous to me.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

jeff said:


> In all seriousness folks.
> I'm gonna go to the store to buy stuff to make cookies. Oatmeal raisin. Yep.


Nooooo.... brownies with cream cheese and chocolate chips. It's chocolate goodness!

Or if you *must* do cookies - chocolate chip with real vanilla and real butter. You'll taste the difference.

JmZ


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I have no problem talking to the sheriff. I haven't broken the law. Why are you so certain about the situation? Did you witness the bike being stolen? Do you have the police report? You seem to have all the answers. Did you steal the bike? I mean, you know so much about it and all. Back in in the day you and the boys were out causing trouble and you pillaged this poor guy's bike... Preposterous? Well, you're take on things is equally preposterous to me.


I read your original posts about finding the bike and then your revised story about buying it. If it don't smell right it probably ain't right. :nono:


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*ugh*



sfgirlonbike said:


> Wasn't it abandoned on the curb?
> 
> Tired of this? But you're the one that joined MTBR to continue the conversation in the first place. We were happily discussing cookies.


It was not abandoned. It was offered for free by an owner who was present. You've never seen a yard sale with a "free box"? 
The thread had ended and a new one was started and I am tired of being publicly bashed over this. I felt like i should try to defend myself, but apparently, that was a bad idea.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

So you've got no money in this bike but you won't work something out with the original owner who had it stolen. Gee, can't figure out why people don't think that's cool.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Yes, I think he very well could be lying.
Maybe he sold it.
Maybe he has a bad memory.
There are things about his recollection and the paperwork he WAS able to find that don't add up at all. So yes, I have my doubts.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

beyondfoolishness said:


> IF I take him at his word, he has been paid-out by his insurance company for the bike. That's technically insurance fraud right?


If what you are suggesting, that the original owner has already collected from his insurance company for his loss of the bike, then there is a remote chance this could be considered insurance fraud.

As has been brought up, the statute of limitations would likely prevent any legal action from being brought forth against the original owner. If you assumed it did not, then the only way this would be fraud is if he were to get his bike bike and not notify the insurance company of his recovery. I would consider that a "double-dip" which is what we in the insurance industry call it when an insured collects twice for the same loss. Most often, a double-dip occurs when somebody collects from two seperate insurance carriers.

In this case, it would be a stretch to call that insurance fraud because at the time they collected for the stolen bike, it was a legitimate claim. He could not foresee recovering the bike since most of the time these things never show up again. Typically, when an insurance company is able to recover a stolen item, they then own that item since their insured was indemnified of "made whole" by the payment of the claim. Usually, the insured does not recover the item themselves, but rather the insurance company is contacted by the law enforcement agency that recovers the item since that insurance company would have filed a letter of interest with that agency.

Now as interesting as this insurance stuff is (insert sarcastic face here), the real issue at hand is that we have an individual who had something of value stolen from them many years ago and to nobody's surprise they wish to have it back. Despite having allegedly been reimbursed for this item from their insurance company, they have a legitimate desire to get it back. The problem is the the seller of said item may well have a legitimate desire to sell this item. The issue is determining where the legal obligation lies compared to the moral obligation.

If what the seller is saying is true, then are they subject to laws that require the item be returned to its original owner? That is not so clear. A very common scenario for a stolen bike changing hands is as such:

1.) Scumbag swipes a bike that is not his or hers.
2.) Scumbag needs a fix of their drug or vice of choice, so tries to peddle the item off on somebody else.
3.) Somebody else just committed a crime by receiving stolen goods.
4.) Somebody else keeps the bike for X number of years and finally decides to sell or give-away this item.
5.) Our seller comes along and finds this item that is being offered for free/cheap

Does our seller really have any reason to believe this item was stolen? A garage sale find is much more innocent in nature than buying a bike off a bum downtown. It is going to be hard to charge somebody with receiving stolen goods when they had no reasonable expectation that the goods were stolen.

So, here we are. The seller, if telling the truth, may have just a viable claim to the bike as its original owner. The original owner has every right to be angry and I can understand their frustration and the supposed comments they may have made. I would be going nuts too and the seller should not have taken certain remarks so personally if in fact the original owner was becoming threatening.

What we as a group need to take notice of is that, according to the seller, there was originally some type of agreement or offer to return the bike. It makes little sense for this situation to have taken such a negative track. Something happened that has not been explained. If the seller was originally planning to return the bike, then why not honor that? Not taking things so personally and having empathy will go a long way to resolve this matter peacefully. If that is not an option, I suggest either going before an arbitration judge or arm wrestling for it.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

I have plenty time and labor and a little bit of money into it. The original owner claims to have had it stolen but details don't add up and he can't substantiate anything.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Man, I wouldn't want to show up on a vintage ride on this bike!


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## XR4TI (Sep 6, 2005)

bikerboy said:


> If what you are suggesting, that the original owner has already collected from his insurance company for his loss of the bike, then there is a remote chance this could be considered insurance fraud.
> 
> As has been brought up, the statute of limitations would likely prevent any legal action from being brought forth against the original owner. If you assumed it did not, then the only way this would be fraud is if he were to get his bike bike and not notify the insurance company of his recovery. I would consider that a "double-dip" which is what we in the insurance industry call it when an insured collects twice for the same loss. Most often, a double-dip occurs when somebody collects from two seperate insurance carriers.
> 
> ...


That's a wrap. Good stuff Sensei!


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I have plenty time and labor and a little bit of money into it. The original owner claims to have had it stolen but details don't add up and he can't substantiate anything.


Neither have you. This really isn't the venue for such a decision to be made. My big long post will hopefully contain some good advice for how to resolve this matter and I am trying to remain as neutral as possible. I really think both sides presenting their cases and respective evidence in front of an impartial party will be the most fair way to resolve this. It is simple, the side with the strongest evidence wins.

I wish we could just one week without a thread that ends up dragging somebody through the mud, whether or not the deserve it. Mods, why not shut this down? I don't see this accomplishing much at all.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

I don't recall saying I picked up an abandoned bike. Just to clarify: It was offered for free at the curb in front of a yard sale. I ended up paying for it though, as someone else got to it first.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I don't recall saying I picked up an abandoned bike. Just to clarify: It was offered for free at the curb in front of a yard sale. I ended up paying for it though, as someone else got to it first.


You said, and I quote:

" I just had an amazing find: most of a Steve Potts MTB W/type II rigid fork from the early nineties- free, left on curb! I'll probably sell it, but it seems like such a nice old piece of mountain bike history, I'd like to build it and ride at least once. The major obstacle in doing this would be the missing roller cam brakes. Google/ebay searches turn up nothing. Seems they might be scarce? Anyone know where to find these?"

Free ... Left on Curb.

I read that to mean abandoned.


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

You have to admit that saying you got it for free at a yard sale makes a better internet story than you gave the guy $10 who got it for free ...

Man, don't look at VRC for a day and look what you miss (and I was watching that auction)


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Fact One: The bike was obtained from a yard sale in Portland.
Fact Two: Even I was not sure the bikes worth when I first brought it home, and I am very sure the the twenty-somethings I got it from did not know. 
Fact Three: When the "original owner" contacted me and said that it was stolen from them I was responsive and wanted to work with him.
Fact Four: All I asked for was some proof of the bike being stolen.
Fact Five: No police report. How do I know that it is not 16 year old sellers remorse?
Fact Six: When I offered to return it to him with a fee to recoup my expenses he threatened me with extortion charges.
Fact Seven: I am so glad I am not a part of your "group" because if one of you rode of a cliff, the rest are likely to follow.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

OK, so there has been a couple of people on here that are not going over the pervertible cliff and some people have minds of their own. Thank god the history of biking is not completely doomed. So sorry if I offended any real bikers that love to ride more that they love to hate.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Fact One: The bike was obtained from a yard sale in Portland.
> Fact Two: Even I was not sure the bikes worth when I first brought it home, and I am very sure the the twenty-somethings I got it from did not know.
> Fact Three: When the "original owner" contacted me and said that it was stolen from them I was responsive and wanted to work with him.
> Fact Four: All I asked for was some proof of the bike being stolen.
> ...


If you did Six, that was the right thing to do and asking for a fee seems fair enough depending on how much you asked for.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

*Anywhere near..*

$500.00? :lol:


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

GlassTrain said:


> $500.00? :lol:


Heck, I figure around $750 would be fair.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

I figure about half the posters here would buy it if they had half a chance....

....leave the guy alone, only he knows the whole story and the rest of you are just guessing and judging. If it wasn't a Potts you wouldn't even give a damn.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

I never got as far as a figure and what I had originally thought of was less than any of you have thought of because I just wanted to cover my expenses. However, we never made it that far, before extortion charges started being thrown around. I was willing to hand a bike over for the sake of "what if that was me or someone I knew" and all I got was threats. But in spite of that I should still do right buy this person? Even though my family has been threatened with emails like "people like you make me want to do bad things", I should bend over and...? My son over heard my wife and I talking about this situation in regards to the emails and now he thinks people are going to hurt me. But I guess thats the point? It really seems to me, that most of you, like the original owner of the bike, prefer the drama over the bike. If it was the other way around, the situation would be resolved.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I never got as far as a figure and what I had originally thought of was less than any of you have thought of because I just wanted to cover my expenses. However, we never made it that far, before extortion charges started being thrown around. I was willing to hand a bike over for the sake of "what if that was me or someone I knew" and all I got was threats. But in spite of that I should still do right buy this person? Even though my family has been threatened with emails like "people like you make me want to do bad things", I should bend over and...? My son over heard my wife and I talking about this situation in regards to the emails and now he thinks people are going to hurt me. But I guess thats the point? It really seems to me, that most of you, like the original owner of the bike, prefer the drama over the bike. If it was the other way around, the situation would be resolved.


I dunno, you make yourself to be the victim, claim you made an offer, but had no terms. Again, your story seems to shift around so that it justifies what you want to do. That said, I don't know the discussions you had with the owner, but what I can see is that whenever you are pushed on a part of your story it changes. Again, whatever, do what you think is right.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

I had no terms? Why should I have terms if I am trying to work with someone? IT WAS REALLY SIMPLE; SHOW ME PROVE THAT IT WAS STOLEN AND IT IS YOURS, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. "Again, your story seems to shift around so that it justifies what you want to do." What is it that I want to do? Hmm. I want to be left alone. I want to work an the garden with my family tomorrow, I am told by my wife that I need to fix the fence, but I would really like to go an a nice quiet ride without thinking about any of this, but thats really not what I am REALLY THINKING. MUAWHAHA...I am really thinking about how I can screw over a guy that I have never met. In fact, I think I will wake up early and meditate on the karmic acts world wide and how they effect a man I never laid eyes upon. Oh, wait.. if I did that, I may then realize THERE IS WAY BETTER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT! 
Actually. So never mind my previous statements. I have a solution for this bike. I am going to have a Steve Potts ****fest on her in my back yard. Oh yeah! I am having my friend called the "steel tube crusher" *** over and show this Steve Potts ***** of a frame who is boss. I am going to piss on it while my homeboy humps the seat tube. Oh yeah.. After were are done with phase one of the humpfest of the Steve Potts whore, we are going to make wee wee on it and them drag it behind a ford pinto . As we parade your ***** ass, +#cked up whore of a bike around town, bouncing like the tits on a brazilian whore behind her Pinto pimp, I am going to have a wild pack of poodles and midgets *&ck it in parts that Steve Potts never imagined.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

OK. It's 4:42 AM here on EST.

I'm up only because my wife was snoring. Thought I'd see what's up in the MTBR world.

Screw the milk and cookies.

I'm poppin' the wisky and burbon.

I might pay to see that.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Oh that's just tonight. Stay tuned!


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

Has anybody stopped to consider that maybe the original owner is a total d!ck?

If I came across a bike that was stolen from me 16 years ago, I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to just hand it over. Even if I could verify that I was the original owner. My first thought would be holy crap, that's my bike! And then I would place a bid. After all, I was paid off by the insurance company. If I missed it that much, I'd be willing to try and buy it back. Second thought would be to contact the seller and find out where he got the bike. If I found out he got it cheap at some (probably meth heads) yard sale, I would think there's probably no way to find out who originally swiped it. I would then ask if he could maybe cancel the auction and work something out. From what has been stated here, the whole situation never even made it that far. Until we hear the *original owners side of the story*, I don't see how everyone can be bashing this guy. If I was in this guys shoes and it's worked out how he's stated, with original owner being accusatory, coercive and harrassing, I'd tell the original owner to go f himself...


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*back up a little...*



beyondfoolishness said:


> Oh that's just tonight. Stay tuned!


You've gone beyond the point of defending....Don't let these "yahoos'" get to you. If you've got facts behind your story, stick with them. I suggest not going off half-cocked because of what you've read here...just my humble opinion, do what you want.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

lock it down bushpig, seriously


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I have a solution for this bike. I am going to have a Steve Potts ****fest on her in my back yard.


No you won't ... it's worth money. Just tell the truth, it's for sale to the highest bidder, and if the "original owner" wants it back, he should bid. Everything else is BS.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

When I started this new post, it was out of curiosity to see where this all was heading. We now have the other side of the story. I think that's a good purpose for a forum, an open discussion.

It has given the seller an opportunity to share his view, and frustrations.

As far as the seller being harassed DIRECTLY by others not involved, I'm not in agreement with that, nor was that my intent.

This is the place to share all views. Just my thoughts.


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

We all must follow our own moral compasses. Some compasses are hijacked by self-servitude and greed. And others are "jaded" by seeking to do good for goodness sake, alone.

We can see where Wall Street's compasses have taken us all.

This whole thing sickens me.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I'm a nit-wit because I can't afford roller-cams? Have you priced them? Do you even know where to buy any? QUOTE]
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i like this thread. it's a study of character and personality, of moral and circumstance. i hope we have more of these in the future.. srsly.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

what if winning bidder ends up being emailed by the original owner w/ proof that the bike was stolen? 
trainwreck.


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## haggis1978 (Nov 12, 2005)

kill him bushpig come on fight fight fight!!!

what the feck is going on here beyondfoolishness, get out there and punch his fecking face in!! 

PUSSIES!!

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

    :thumbsup:  

Thats one hell of a good read that is


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm a lover not a fighter.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

da'HOOV said:


> ....leave the guy alone, only he knows the whole story and the rest of you are just guessing and judging. If it wasn't a Potts you wouldn't even give a damn.


yeah and i wouldn't care if someone drove away in my ferrari that was left on the side of the road. yes the frame has value which we all know, otherwise no one would care.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Conditions for you receiving the bike:
#1 I want a formal and public apology from you, bushpig, and ssmike in which you acknowledge: I Dan Watters am the legal owner of the bike, and you [snip], have no legal claim to the bike, and for me to return the bike would be doing you a favor. I would also like you to acknowledge how stupid it was for you to come to me with subtle threats of legal action, when: a) I was prepared to work with you on it anyway, and b) you don't have a legal leg to stand on. 
#2 $350 deposited to my paypal account. I have time and labor into this, and now the frustration and mental anguish that came largely as a result of your attempted coercion and postings about me on public forums.
I will pack and ship the bike when payment clears.

I am sorry things got to this point. Honestly though, you kind of shot yourself in the foot with your "negotiation tactics". Tip: Less vinegar, more honey.
Getting a bike back after 16 years? You should have been thanking me, not damning me.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

[Edit] That didn't come out right. For $350 he should be totally appreciative. That is more than fair.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Conditions for you receiving the bike:
> #1 I want a formal and public apology from you, bushpig, and ssmike in which you acknowledge: I Dan Watters am the legal owner of the bike, and you [deleted], have no legal claim to the bike, and for me to return the bike would be doing you a favor. I would also like you to acknowledge how stupid it was for you to come to me with subtle threats of legal action, when: a) I was prepared to work with you on it anyway, and b) you don't have a legal leg to stand on.
> #2 $350 deposited to my paypal account. I have time and labor into this, and now the frustration and mental anguish that came largely as a result of your attempted coercion and postings about me on public forums.
> I will pack and ship the bike when payment clears.
> ...


 since you are making it public and it turned out into another reality show i will say i don't like the terms because you were selling a stolen bike therefore you would have to thank those who stopped you. 
does your time cost only $350? or was it what you spent?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I think what I'm taking away from all of this is that the original and current owner of this bike are both dullards.


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## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

bushpig said:


> [Edit] That didn't come out right. For $350 he should be totally appreciative. That is more than fair.


That does sound fair, but I'd ask that the wild poodle and midget love juice be cleaned off before shipment.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Geez, the peanut gallery is tough. This guy has decided to do right and still gets guff!


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## Fatmikeynyc (Jun 20, 2005)

So like what happens next when the original owner goes to sell it on eBay?


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Did the "original owner" ever prove he was in fact the "original owner"? And was it ever proven to be stolen from the "original owner"? I might have missed that part. 

I contend that I was the original owner of ALL the cool bikes you guys have that you don't have the original receipt for. Would I lie?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

What is the point of that comment?


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*if you are referring to mine...*



bushpig said:


> What is the point of that comment?


A smily face usually shows it was meant to be humorous.

What was the point of half the comments here? Like 108, 107, 114,115, just for a few...It's the internet 

geez this place is strange.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I just don't know why you want to be in the middle of every conflict. This business has run its course and you try to stir it up again. Pointless.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

whatever... 

just trying to add some levity, guess i'm not allowed to do that....sorry


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I am very glad the seller decided to do the right thing. It sounds like both of them didn't play the situation as best they could, but I for one would GLADLY pay $350 for the privilege of being reunited with a loved bike that had been long lost. 

Now......fillet brazed (forever) has got to find himself some rollercams and keep the bike in the family for at least three generations.


EDIT--this one amended, but the quoted ones will still lack the eternal aspect of fillet brazing


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

yo-Nate-y said:


> I am very glad the seller decided to do the right thing. It sounds like both of them didn't play the situation as best they could, but I for one would GLADLY pay $350 for the privilege of being reunited with a loved bike that had been long lost.
> 
> Now......fillet brazed has got to find himself some rollercams and keep the bike in the family for at least three generations.


Amen. Adios amigos!


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Nope never proven that it was stolen only that he owned it 16 years ago. No police report, no insurance repot no pictures. Nothing. He said it was his bike and now he is saying it is his wife's, but no proof that it was stolen and not just sold. All I have to go on is his say so.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*ahhhhh...*



yo-Nate-y said:


> I am very glad the seller decided to do the right thing. It sounds like both of them didn't play the situation as best they could, but I for one would GLADLY pay $350 for the privilege of being reunited with a loved bike that had been long lost.
> 
> Now......fillet brazed has got to find himself some rollercams and keep the bike in the family for at least three generations.


Now it makes sense....


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Now......fillet brazed has got to find himself some rollercams and keep the bike in the family for at least three generations.


Let's be clear that this was Fillet Brazed Forever, not Fillet Brazed. Different dude.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

ah! my bad


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

yo-Nate-y said:


> ah! my bad


 +1 on that


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

beyondfoolishness said:


> I'm the seller of the bike. I've been a mountain biker since the late eighties, as well as a lover of vintage bikes in general. No-one passing judgement on me knows me or the situation and actual correspondence with the original owner. Fact is, he doesn't have evidence to support his claim. I was even willing to work with him at that, until he started acting like a total ass about it, quoting law and making suggestive and coercive statements. There was no reason for him to be communicating to me in this way. I picked up the phone and talked to him about it, I responded to his emails, I emailed Steve Potts, etc. Yet, despite my cooperation and willingness to work with him, his many emails to me took an accusatory and coercive tone. This was fairly infuriating, since I did nothing wrong, basically brought the bike back from the grave, and was ready to hand it over to him. He has no legal claim to the bike and frankly anything else left the table when he started his passive-aggressive B.S. with me. Karma? I believe in karma. IF I take him at his word, he has been paid-out by his insurance company for the bike. That's technically insurance fraud right? One would think that if he wanted to he could find some shred of evidence to support his claim(that it was stolen, not that he owned it). For all the would-be vigilantes and people quick to call me names, consider this: I have probably had 10 bikes go missing over the years(granted nothing too special) I know what it feels like to lose a bike, but I also live in the real world where people typically don't just take your word for it, and if you don't have something to back up your claim, you are S.O.L. I personally, have been screwed-over too many times by taking people at their word. So maybe I'm a bit jaded in that respect I don't know. I do know that if I or anyone else I know went to claim a bike without a police report to back it up, they wouldn't get their bike back. I'm a nit-wit because I can't afford roller-cams? Have you priced them? Do you even know where to buy any? I'd rather put the money towards a 29er myself, but apparently I can't make such a decision without being subject to public ridicule? WTF?


OK. I have let this guy make me look bad long enough. Any of you in the cycling community who know me, know that I am nothing but forgiving and calm about things. I told the seller from day one that I did not want to involve police, or anything in trying to deal with my wife's stolen bike. I had a lot of fellow cyclists who saw the bike, knew it was mine, and who wanted me to pursue the matter to the fullest extent of the law. When I spoke with the seller by phone, he and I had a very civil conversation, and I said my main concern was that he may not know he was selling stolen property, and that he could be subject to local laws pertaining to stolen property. I never said I would come after him personally with any legal attack, nor did I want for him to feel threatened. He read my consequent emails in such a way as to take my concerns for his involvement in stolen property as threats that I would blow the whistle on him. I told him I would contact my police dept, to try to dig up the proof he wanted, have Steve Potts let him know that the log book and my serial number were legit, and that Steve even remembered my wife and I calling to get the serial number when it was stolen. ANYONE who knows Steve Potts,, knows there is not a more decent, honest, and caring person on the face of the earth. In order to pursue the correct channels of Ebay's legal department, I was told I had to file a claim with them that the bike was stolen, and contact the Portland Police Dept. The seller suggested I do since he claimed he had nothing to hide. Upon his urging and the advice of others in the cycling community, I did so. I was simply taking the necessary steps to form a cohesive legal trail for everyone's benefit. He took it as an attack, and I could not convince him otherwise. So what started as concern for his involvement in stolen property, became a whole lot of misunderstanding on the seller's part. I have emailed my entire correspondence with the seller to Steve Potts, and I assure you that you will not find a single word of threat. It was simply concern. That is the problem with emails, people can perceive them differently depending on how they they are feeling. The seller has closed the auction, and emailed me this offer. "Conditions for you receiving the bike:
#1 I want a formal and public apology from you, bushpig, and ssmike in which you acknowledge: I Dan Watters am the legal owner of the bike, and you Trevor Lindsey, have no legal claim to the bike, and for me to return the bike would be doing you a favor. I would also like you to acknowledge how stupid it was for you to come to me with subtle threats of legal action, when: a) I was prepared to work with you on it anyway, and b) you don't have a legal leg to stand on. 
#2 $350 deposited to my paypal account. I have time and labor into this, and now the frustration and mental anguish that came largely as a result of your attempted coercion and postings about me on public forums.
I will pack and ship the bike when payment clears.

I am sorry things got to this point. Honestly though, you kind of shot yourself in the foot with your "negotiation tactics". Tip: Less vinegar, more honey.
Getting a bike back after 16 years? You should have been thanking me, not damning me. "


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Okay, enough of airing your dirty laundry here. Just work it out between the two of you guys and leave us out of it. At this point, I can care less who ends up with the bike.

Can we please move on to something else here or is it a slow news day?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Seriously. Just work it out and communicate.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Seriously. Just work it out and communicate.


Agreed, and, for the record, posting someone's full name on the internet, whether quoting them or not, is not cool.

Edit: And I don't mean Steve Potts.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

i don't think steve potts would mind his name being used on the internets.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*why the wink?*



yo-Nate-y said:


> ah! my bad


Johnny come lately, don't confuse him with me. (I would prefer that he changed his user name.)


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Boy named SSue said:


> Let's be clear that this was Fillet Brazed Forever, not Fillet Brazed. Different dude.


Thank you.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm still for that one guy to dry hump the $hit out of it...as long as you get it on video...


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

Sorry. Anyway, I have proposed that he relist the bike with my approval, and that he take the money he needed out of the sale, and that we donate the balance to a worthy charity, or to the Mountain Bike Hall Of Fame. Sound fair to everybody?


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## fastale (Jul 2, 2007)

craziest spam thread ever


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

LOL. As long as I don't need to apologize so someone else gets a bike I'm happy!


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

fastale said:


> craziest spam thread ever


Or I could just take my wife's bike back if you think I am insane.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Johnny come lately, don't confuse him with me. (I would prefer that he changed his user name.)


Gee, welcome to my world.....I'm sure your request will get better response than mine did


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

Sounds like a plan then! Let's all celebrate!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I saw we all gather and throw it in a pot of molten metal and sing kumbaya.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

sfgirlonbike said:


> I saw we all gather and throw it in a pot of molten metal and sing kumbaya.


or we all gather and smoke pot and sing kumbaya (or Kashmir ) :thumbsup:


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

Melt a Steve Potts work of art? Sacrelige!


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

How about a pizza instead?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> Gee, welcome to my world.....I'm sure your request will get better response than mine did


his user name was just coincidence.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Fillet-brazed said:


> his user name was just coincidence.


oh....I thoiught "stan4000bikes" and "duh-hoov"s were coincidental too  :madman:


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Dude. This isn't about you. Move along.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> A smily face usually shows it was meant to be humorous.
> 
> What was the point of half the comments here? Like 108, 107, 114,115, just for a few...It's the internet
> 
> geez this place is strange.


it was not funny. the thread is not about you. the post was boring and self centered. so?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> whatever...
> 
> just trying to add some levity, guess i'm not allowed to do that....sorry


your role is the VICTIM. always. pleeeaaase.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

What's my cut on this deal?


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

beyondfoolishness said:


> Nope never proven that it was stolen only that he owned it 16 years ago. No police report, no insurance repot no pictures. Nothing.


Based on this, I side with the Seller. The seller should be able to keep all funds.


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## JoelovesDirt (Apr 28, 2008)

Fillet Brazed Forever said:


> Sounds like a plan then! Let's all celebrate!


 I sold a car in Oregon to a friend on payments, I signed the title as the lien holder so she could get new plates(car came from Utah). Long story short, she stopped making payments, forged my sig on title, and sold the car. The Multnomah county Sheriffs dept. told me to get a lawyer because it was a civil matter. Did I? No, too much hassle for the remaining $1500.
That was a car. So I say to you fillet brazed thank your lucky stars! And, being a d!ck never helped anyone. BTW I side with the seller. I would have told you to go huck yourself!!!
.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

*Mood Disorder?*

This is not beyondfoolishnes, this is his wife. We just got home from the hospital after a family emergency and we found the following email. I have tried to stay out of this, but I am feeling incredibly angy right now. 
The original owner of the bike has taken his self absorbed lunacy to a new level. Before we had a chance to respond to the last email about the charity we were to donate the remainder to, we had to leave abruptly to take care of my father. 
The body of the email was as follows:

"I have not heard back from you concerning the idea I had. If it is not acceptable, then just sell the bike as you please. I still can not provide the proof you required, so do as you please. I have tried to be cordial, but frankly I just do not want to be held hostage any longer for something that is more important to you than it is to me. 
Please do not correspond with me any longer. I am tired of the game you are playing, and I apologize to no man when honor and truth are behind my actions. My post on the vintage forum finalized the matter, and everyone will believe you are a "good guy" when you proceed with your sale of my wife's bike. People believe I have accepted your terms, and have agreed to let you have the bike free and clear with the exception of a donation to charity. I will not stand in your way nor tip anyone off. I am simply too tired to stand up to your demands and deal with your stonewalling. 
Like I requested earlier, do not contact me any longer for any reason. I do not want to hear excuses of how you tried to help me out, or extended the olive branch first. I feel you are refusing to give me the satisfaction of an email until I complete the list of demands you sent. Do you realize how much that list sounds like the demands of a guilty party? A real man would have made things right, and shown some compassion. We both have our difficulties in life, and I am sure yours are no less painful than mine, but washing my hands of this whole ordeal will benefit me greatly. I'm not sure you will feel the same relief. 
Please respect my final request that you have nothing to do with me, say nothing to me, write nothing about me, nor ever try to get in contact again. I was fully prepared to do this for you as your wife requested, but then you contacted me today. Please do this for your family if not for me."

Side note, we only contacted him to try to give him the bike after the auction was closed and bids were well over the fee being asked to return it to a moan that has no proof that it was ever stolen from him in the first place. Thank you to the few people on here that have seen the absurdity of this all. This is the last you will hear form me, unless you want more midget and poodle stories:madmax: (I wrote that when he stepped out of the room for a moment because I was tired of this S**t). Regardless of his email we will honor is request to donate to charity and we will honor his last request in the email below, even though he has not honored my husbands.


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## beyondfoolishness (Mar 26, 2009)

Lot's of type o's I know, but I am exhausted.


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## haggis1978 (Nov 12, 2005)

Here's my honest opinion, despite having enjoyed reading this thread its starting to get a bit tiring. The claimed original owner/ person bike was stolen from/ whatever is if it is/was his bike and stolen is legitimately allowed to be pissed off. You sir/ (beyondfoolishness)/ his wife/ whatever are after coming back from hospital are probably a bit emotional, never mind having all this crap to deal with as well. I suggest both parties involved grow up sort it out and at the same time develop an interest in sex and travelling in the near and nigh future. Roughly translated that means "Feck Off!" Just in case you are "Dullards"


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

sfgirlonbike said:


> Dude. This isn't about you. Move along.


Stan is the A-Rod** of VRC. No matter what is happening, he has to be at the center of the controversy. A true drama queen.

** Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees, aka A-Rod, aka A-Roid.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

beyondfoolishness said:


> we will honor his last request in the email below, even though he has not honored my husbands.


Oh yea, that reasonable request to have me apologize. Ha ha.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i wouldn't apologize a thing.. 
and the exposure of my name.. for what? a freakin bike? a couple grand? and now there is a hospital in the scenario as well.

cheap melodrama. is the season over? or do we have more coming?


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

cousineddie said:


> Stan is the A-Rod** of VRC. No matter what is happening, he has to be at the center of the controversy. A true drama queen.
> 
> ** Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees, aka A-Rod, aka A-Roid.


Best sign I have ever seen at a baseball game. Seattle, Rodriguez first game back in after leaving. Center field bleachers.... "Hit it here A-hole."


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

hairstream said:


> Best sign I have ever seen at a baseball game. Seattle, Rodriguez first game back in after leaving. Center field bleachers.... "Hit it here A-hole."


:lol: He deserves it! I wish the Yanks would trade him already.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

O yay, this thread is still going.

Re. baseball, who's worse, manny or A-Rod


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Fillet Brazed Forever said:


> Or I could just take my wife's bike back if you think I am insane.


After all this, take the bloodty bike back, will ya??


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

A-Rod, no question.


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

bushpig said:


> A-Rod, no question.


+1


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

IF52 said:


> O yay, this thread is still going.
> 
> Re. baseball, who's worse, manny or A-Rod


Tie???


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

IF52 said:


> O yay, this thread is still going.
> 
> Re. baseball, who's worse, manny or A-Rod


Trick question, baseball sucks?


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

thread hijack accomplished. :thumbsup:


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