# Tall Guy Steel Frame Hardtail.



## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

Sorry up front. I should have researched old posts more. I'm 6'-7". Looking to get an affordable steel frame that allows front suspension fork (29er of course). I'm now riding a xxl santacruz hightower cc. Love it, but checking to see if any off the shelf or affordable custom builds work for folks my size. I'm 6-7(250lbs) 52 yrs old. Not doing anything too crazy on trail but do have some fun.
Suggestions?
Thanks!


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

CLDSDL43 said:


> Sorry up front. I should have researched old posts more. I'm 6'-7". Looking to get an affordable steel frame that allows front suspension fork (29er of course). I'm now riding a xxl santacruz hightower cc. Love it, but checking to see if any off the shelf or affordable custom builds work for folks my size. I'm 6-7(250lbs) 52 yrs old. Not doing anything too crazy on trail but do have some fun.
> Suggestions?
> Thanks!


...or aluminum.


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Pole taival in XL. I’m 6’7 and it fits great











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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

socalrider77 said:


> Pole taival in XL. I’m 6’7 and it fits great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. That may just be the one for me. I had looked at Ventana Wolfram as well but definitely leaning towards steel.
Thanks!


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

CLDSDL43 said:


> Nice. That may just be the one for me. I had looked at Ventana Wolfram as well but definitely leaning towards steel.
> Thanks!


Np! Kona honzo or honzo esd would be a good choice too, but IMO the chainstays are too short for guys our size 


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## bignick (Sep 11, 2014)

Hi, I’m the same height as you and I’ve just built up this cotic Solaris max. This thing is big, now I just need to ride it.


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

Surly makes affordable steel frames. On the more expensive but also more aggressive and modern geo a Canfield Nimble 9.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Surly head tubes are stupid shirt for tall guys (yes surly designers, you have your heads pretty far up your as$es on XL sizes) so be prepared for a 3" riser bar. 

Nimble 9 looks awesome and has an acceptable stack. Plus Canfield is a great company. 

Chumba Stella and Sendero

I wouldn't be to put off by aluminum. Growler has a nice sized ht and so does Ventana.


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> Surly head tubes are stupid shirt for tall guys (yes surly designers, you have your heads pretty far up your as$es on XL sizes) so be prepared for a 3" riser bar.
> 
> Nimble 9 looks awesome and has an acceptable stack. Plus Canfield is a great company.
> 
> ...


Doesn't really matter what the HT length is as stack is measured to the top of the HT. Surly has a short stack for it's XL frame, I would agree.

I read Lee McCormick's book dialed and that has been very helpful for me in setting up previous bike and buying a new frame recently. I'm 6' 4" with a 38" inseam. My BB to top of seat is 34".


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

socalrider77 said:


> Np! Kona honzo or honzo esd would be a good choice too, but IMO the chainstays are too short for guys our size
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not as tall as you guys but hear me out 🙂

I’m around 6 feet. Lanky AF. I have a large steel Honzo and a large Unit (that’s what she said 😝). Both bikes feel massive to me compared to, say, my large Druid (and I like big frames). I have owned a LOT of bikes and those two steel framed Konas feel like long legged giraffes to me.

I have not done any spec studying at all. Zero. I’m just going by feel, relative to other bikes I have owned. They both have adjustable drop outs. I have both slammed for the shortest wheelbase possible. Extended to their max wheelbase position, these bikes would feel even more roomy.

Just offering this with the suspicion that an XL steel Honzo frame, with the dropouts fully extended, may be an option for the OP. The adjustable drop outs are only available on the Kona steel Honzos (including ESDs).


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Jeff in Bend said:


> Doesn't really matter what the HT length is as stack is measured to the top of the HT. Surly has a short stack for it's XL frame, I would agree.
> 
> I read Lee McCormick's book dialed and that has been very helpful for me in setting up previous bike and buying a new frame recently. I'm 6' 4" with a 38" inseam. My BB to top of seat is 34".


Then explain to me how you would get a tall stack with a short head tube, other then obviously over forking the bike? Need long head tubes to get tall stacks on bikes with 140mm or less bikes, the two go hand in hand.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

jonshonda said:


> Surly head tubes are stupid shirt for tall guys (yes surly designers, you have your heads pretty far up your as$es on XL sizes) so be prepared for a 3" riser bar.
> 
> Nimble 9 looks awesome and has an acceptable stack. Plus Canfield is a great company.
> 
> ...


I rode a friend's Surley XL and felt too short. Love Surly, jist doesn't fit me. Do have a Karate Monkey fork on my Waltworks 29er. Like the Walt just wish I had opted for much longer toptube. (My fault).
Leaning towards Pole Taival or Ventana Wolfram so far. I need that long top tube.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I’m not as tall as you guys but hear me out 🙂
> 
> I’m around 6 feet. Lanky AF. I have a large steel Honzo and a large Unit (that’s what she said 😝). Both bikes feel massive to me compared to, say, my large Druid (and I like big frames). I have owned a LOT of bikes and those two steel framed Konas feel like long legged giraffes to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks. May try to find an XL Honzo to straddle.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

Being in the 6'-7" plus club,
I've thought about what % of off the shelf bikes (any price range) are immediately ruled out when bike searching for a truly proper fit.
I'm guessing 90%+. It took years until I was on a proper sized frame as well that I realized just how tiny most bikes are for me.
Kind of like clothes/shoes/auto shopping.


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> Then explain to me how you would get a tall stack with a short head tube, other then obviously over forking the bike? Need long head tubes to get tall stacks on bikes with 140mm or less bikes, the two go hand in hand.


Sorry for the late response. Stack height is the combination of the angle of the down tube and the length of the top tube. Within the same frame head tubes get longer as the frame sizes go up to accommodate the the angle changes of the tubes coming together, but between different mfgs. there doesn't seem to be a correlation. For example my Canfield Lithium stack is over a 1/2" bigger than my Ventana but the head tube is 1" shorter. Diameter of the top and down tube and the angles is what dictates how long the head tube needs to be.

This is just my observation, I'm not a frame building expert.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I used to be 6'6" and being all embarrassed, would sometimes lie and say I was 6'5"
Always being taller then everyone else.
Having the pleasures of traveling the world and being in nations where we are literal giants, even my dad and my bro 6.0' and 6'1" as the mom 5'8".
Yes I was embarrassed to be so tall and would lie again and say I was 6'4" when I was really 6'5" confirmed by doc and knowing and retaining that info, shorter whaaaat.
Years went on and I was measured by the doc to be 6'4" and so I dont lie anymore.
Weight, on the other hand "Somewhat active"
LOL

Tall guy steel frame hardtail?
Price Range?
New or used?
New or used, either way it is best to mount it and sit on it and test ride it.
See how it feels
Compare rides, ride multiple rides. You might have to rent, but even then they normally dont stock XXL bicycles do they? I dont know. I rented a bicycle mid range but I needed to find out where I parked my vehicle for the past months. It was still there, right, in front, of, the, bar.

All I know as a tall guy, everything was hard to fit and I wouldnt gamble on buying anything you cant touch and sit on and use.

Custom steel frame for tall guy is an option, but more expensive tooooooo
I believe the 36" wheeled bicycle Shaq rides that he loves it. 
Remember, everyone is different, two people could be same height, same weight but different leg and arm lengths. Just like seat saddles, every bums different.


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## bigthom (Dec 14, 2010)

Time for some hard truths:

I am 6'8" and an eighth of a ton. I will tell you the hardest truth first: There is no such thing as an affordable bike that does not fit. It is the start of a journey that will end in either injury or frustration or most likely both.

People over 6'5" get pretty good at putting up with close enough...airplane seats, clothing, shoes and counter tops. Don't do it with bikes...you will just end up annoyed and will find yourself riding less and less until you don't ride at all.

I have had so many so-called XXL bikes. I have had a 24" Surly Ogre and Kona Honzo in XL. I have tried and broken or tried and hated so many frames that I think back and laugh. I tried to save a penny and ended up paying by the pound, ramming my head in the same wall over and over again, expecting a different outcome.

Then, reluctantly and grudgingly, I ordered a custom frame from someone who knew what they were doing and knew what I needed. I gave him my ideas and he told me why some of them were terrible and some were interesting and some where very doable.

He made the bike I needed. It was the single best cycling money I have ever spent.

No more broken bikes. No more warranty claims. Just a bike that actually fits me, makes me smile and brings me into riding like nothing else.

I have a steel hardtail with T47 bottom bracket, a Fox 36 with a 20mm thru axle, 203mm brake rotors and its amazing.

Save money on the parts, pay for the frame and get it right. It is so worth it!


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

bigthom said:


> Time for some hard truths:
> 
> I am 6'8" and an eighth of a ton. I will tell you the hardest truth first: There is no such thing as an affordable bike that does not fit. It is the start of a journey that will end in either injury or frustration or most likely both.
> 
> ...


Good looking bike. I know what you mean...until you get one that fits right its hard to know what you need sometimes. Definitely little to choose from off the shelf when you pass 6'-4".
I think I'm gonna order up a Pole Taival. It should definitely fit the bill if specs are accurate. I don't see riding it super often as compared to my FS which at my age I've grown accustomed to the plush rear and due to a few factors ride mainly seated. Inglis sure does some beautiful builds though.
Thanks!


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

bigthom said:


> Time for some hard truths:
> 
> I am 6'8" and an eighth of a ton. I will tell you the hardest truth first: There is no such thing as an affordable bike that does not fit. It is the start of a journey that will end in either injury or frustration or most likely both.
> 
> ...


BTW. What is your top tube length?


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

Im 6'6". 50 years old. 218. I average 1500 trail miles from April to December. I just bought a Canfield Nimble 9 to compliment my Santa Cruz Hightower XXL (which fits pretty well). The Nimble on paper is big and bigger than most.....and Canfield said with a long stem it would be great....its not. See pics. It is way too small at 503 reach and 650 stack. Surleys are miniature in comparison. 2019 tallboy was tiny. My 2017 Salsa Timberjack was a like a BMX bike. I am currently looking for a used Pole Taival. High stack. Long reach. Anything shorter than 515 reach is too small but the stack has to be closer to 670 to truly
fit my personal tastes.My brother is 6'4". I think its too small for him. fits a 200 mm dropper though.Beautiful bike. Got the frame for sale on Pinkbike with zero miles. Bummer.


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

MeanLean said:


> Im 6'6". 50 years old. 218. I average 1500 trail miles from April to December. I just bought a Canfield Nimble 9 to compliment my Santa Cruz Hightower XXL (which fits pretty well). The Nimble on paper is big and bigger than most.....and Canfield said with a long stem it would be great....its not. See pics. It is way too small at 503 reach and 650 stack. Surleys are miniature in comparison. 2019 tallboy was tiny. My 2017 Salsa Timberjack was a like a BMX bike. I am currently looking for a used Pole Taival. High stack. Long reach. Anything shorter than 515 reach is too small but the stack has to be closer to 670 to truly
> fit my personal tastes.My brother is 6'4". I think its too small for him. fits a 200 mm dropper though.Beautiful bike. Got the frame for sale on Pinkbike with zero miles. Bummer.
> 
> View attachment 1961271
> ...


I would read Lee McCormick's book Dialed and if you sign up you get access to his bike fit calculator where you can figure out what you need before spending a bunch of money on trying to wing it. Look at Neuhaus Metalworks for a custom size steel hardtail. 

I'm assuming the Nimble 9 is an XL, I'd be interested in buying it at a reasonable price.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

I like the look of the Nimble 9. Canfield makes a nice ride. 
For an off the shelf hardtail the Pole geometry looks like my choice. I've been thru all size ranges and types over 30 yrs
Only had custom builds since about 1997. I pretty much know what I want in a bike fit. The SC Hightower xxl was the most heavenly ride I've owned for fit and overall. It did come with a lot of modern luxury that I hadn't enjoyed previously. 
For the amount of time I'll be spending on a hardtail the Pole fits the bill. I'm not willing to spend 3 times that much for a hardtail frame that would be only slightly different in dimensions. Nice to have a few off the shelf options for a 6'-7" guy these days.


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

Jeff in Bend said:


> I would read Lee McCormick's book Dialed and if you sign up you get access to his bike fit calculator where you can figure out what you need before spending a bunch of money on trying to wing it. Look at Neuhaus Metalworks for a custom size steel hardtail.
> 
> I'm assuming the Nimble 9 is an XL, I'd be interested in buying it at a reasonable price.


I have become familiar with RAD over the last year from Joy of Bike on youtube. Didnt know he had written a book. Thanks for the heads up! 
It is an XL. Please check out my ad on Pinkbike. I included photos of both my brother (6'4") and myself on the bike in my photo albums. Not on the ad but deeper in the album. 
The pictures say a 1000 words on fit I think. I think it clearly shows its not for me. My brother is on the edge. Personal preference of course, but he rides a Esker Hayduke thats much smaller than the Nimb 9.... He likes them both. 
It looks like I could post it on MTBR? Not sure. I am not on this forum much.


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

MeanLean said:


> I have become familiar with RAD over the last year from Joy of Bike on youtube. Didnt know he had written a book. Thanks for the heads up!
> It is an XL. Please check out my ad on Pinkbike. I included photos of both my brother (6'4") and myself on the bike in my photo albums. Not on the ad but deeper in the album.
> The pictures say a 1000 words on fit I think. I think it clearly shows its not for me. My brother is on the edge. Personal preference of course, but he rides a Esker Hayduke thats much smaller than the Nimb 9.... He likes them both.
> It looks like I could post it on MTBR? Not sure. I am not on this forum much.


Its an insanely beautiful bike.


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

CLDSDL43 said:


> I like the look of the Nimble 9. Canfield makes a nice ride.
> For an off the shelf hardtail the Pole geometry looks like my choice. I've been thru all size ranges and types over 30 yrs
> Only had custom builds since about 1997. I pretty much know what I want in a bike fit. The SC Hightower xxl was the most heavenly ride I've owned for fit and overall. It did come with a lot of modern luxury that I hadn't enjoyed previously.
> For the amount of time I'll be spending on a hardtail the Pole fits the bill. I'm not willing to spend 3 times that much for a hardtail frame that would be only slightly different in dimensions. Nice to have a few off the shelf options for a 6'-7" guy these days.


Agreed on the Hightower. Its a great all purpose machine. There is something I am missing though. From my days on my Specialized hard Rock from 87. Not a great standard of performance, but nestalgic qualities I want to find in a capable modern version.


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

I posted the frame for sale on MTBR a few minutes ago.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

MeanLean said:


> I posted the frame for sale on MTBR a few minutes ago.


That is definitely a good looking frame. Hate it didn't work out. Good luck


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

The Nimble 9 is a good lesson on how reach alone doesn't tell the whole story. When you push the seat post so far forward the reach gets eaten up, and isn't accounted for in the measurement from the bb to the ht. ETT is a more effective measurement when comparing old geo vs modern.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

jonshonda said:


> The Nimble 9 is a good lesson on how reach alone doesn't tell the whole story. When you push the seat post so far forward the reach gets eaten up, and isn't accounted for in the measurement from the bb to the ht. ETT is a more effective measurement when comparing old geo vs modern.


I learned to rely on ETT way back. It seems to work best when my 6-7" needs a new frame.
Thanks!


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

I built in Lennard Zinn's shop for a number of years back in the day. He's just about 6' 7" and started building bikes for tall people back in the early 80's.....not cheap, but it's a bike you'll actually love riding.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

Joe Handlebar said:


> I built in Lennard Zinn's shop for a number of years back in the day. He's just about 6' 7" and started building bikes for tall people back in the early 80's.....not cheap, but it's a bike you'll actually love riding.


That's pretty cool you worked with him. I researched some of his bikes. Communicated with him in mid 90's. Respect he and his work very much. Still have a copy of his book. At the time I went with Ventana in the long run. (Great folks). Things really changed for me when 29er's came to be.
To be honest, I've been on a santacruz hightower xxl for 2 years now and never have enjoyed a ride so much for what I do.
Just been craving a fun steel HT lately.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

would be nice to have more tall clyde choices


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm 6'5" and my 17 year old son is 6'4 and 3/4". I have an XL Surly Krampus and an XL Ice Cream truck that I love. I have Jones H Loop bars with 2 1/2" rise on both of them. I'm comfortable on both bikes. I'm pretty sure they both have identical geometry. Anyway, my son outgrew his large 907 two years ago so I put together my old XL Stumpjumper FS 29er for him. He likes it but he needs a fatty for the winter. Surly told me no frames til 2023. I broke down and bought him an XXL Growler Stout. I transferred his parts from his 907 over to it and when I sat on it, I realized how long the top tube is on this bike. For the first time in forever, I was reaching too far for the bars with an 80mm stem. I just ordered a 40. It will arrive tomorrow.
Gotta say, nice frame. Aluminum though.

















Right now it's in 29+ trim. Saving up for a rear hub to finish his fat wheelset.


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## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

Great thread! I'm working on some XXXXXXXL bike designs, so it's really helpful to see what the big boys and girls have tried and figured out.

I did some background research on the bikes you guys are talking about. As a few have already pointed out, bikes don't always fit as they appear on geometry charts.

One thing I like to compare is the hypotenuse: sqrt(stack^2+reach^2). There are other methods that explain a similar concept, but I think this is the easiest to explain.

The hypotenuse is just a way of looking at the stack and reach simultaneously to see how big a bike really is.











These are the bikes discussed:









If you look at the hypotenuse, among other dimensions, you can come to some cool conclusions:

The Solaris has the shortest hypotenuse even though it has the 2nd longest ETT.
The Paradox has a shorter reach than the nimble 9, but quite a bit bigger hypotonuse due to its stack.
The Nimble 9 feels small because it has an unreasonably steep STA, which shortens the ETT. They did this so they could get their 415mm sliding dropouts.
The Pole is just a big ass bike
Im _only _6ft 1/2in, so I'm short compared to some of you giants. But even at my height, I've struggled with a lot of the same issues you all have: bars too low, wheelies on climbs, knees hitting bars, bikes feeling too cramped. I am sure its much worse for those >6'4. It's cool to see the solutions you all have cooked up.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

NYrr496 said:


> I'm 6'5" and my 17 year old son is 6'4 and 3/4". I have an XL Surly Krampus and an XL Ice Cream truck that I love. I have Jones H Loop bars with 2 1/2" rise on both of them. I'm comfortable on both bikes. I'm pretty sure they both have identical geometry. Anyway, my son outgrew his large 907 two years ago so I put together my old XL Stumpjumper FS 29er for him. He likes it but he needs a fatty for the winter. Surly told me no frames til 2023. I broke down and bought him an XXL Growler Stout. I transferred his parts from his 907 over to it and when I sat on it, I realized how long the top tube is on this bike. For the first time in forever, I was reaching too far for the bars with an 80mm stem. I just ordered a 40. It will arrive tomorrow.
> Gotta say, nice frame. Aluminum though.
> View attachment 1964208
> 
> ...


Looks sweet!


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

Sold Canfield. Sold my Hightower. Almost done with a Pole Taival build. Definitely big enough.


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

MeanLean said:


> Sold Canfield. Sold my Hightower. Almost done with a Pole Taival build. Definitely big enough.
> View attachment 1965298


Twins! What travel are you running in the front? 











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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

socalrider77 said:


> Twins! What travel are you running in the front?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice! 150. u?


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

MeanLean said:


> nice! 150. u?


160 


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## MeanLean (Jun 11, 2020)

Good choice!


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

MeanLean said:


> Sold Canfield. Sold my Hightower. Almost done with a Pole Taival build. Definitely big enough.
> View attachment 1965298


Sweet. I need to order one soon.


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