# Tips for roots uphill



## Rocklion (Jul 25, 2010)

A buddy and I rode a new section of trail this week and then we hit something I hadn't stumbled on before. A steep climb with roots everywhere. I started powering up them, but after awhile just gave up because every time I would hit some of them climbing, it would just stop me cold. Both of us just ended up doing walkabike up the trail because we couldn't figure out how to get over them and it started wearing us down as well.

Then on top of it, we couldn't make it up the hill because by that time we weren't in the proper gearing anyway. 

Wondered what tips you would have on getting over these things. My first thought was go to into higher gearing to power up. Didn't work out too well. Couldn't get enough momentum going for me.


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## Adam_B. (Apr 7, 2011)

I ride a hill like that pretty regularly and I just stand and mash and plow my way up it. I'm sure it doesn't look pretty but it seems to work ok. Also being able to track stand helps when I do get hung up.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Rocklion said:


> A buddy and I rode a new section of trail this week and then we hit something I hadn't stumbled on before. A steep climb with roots everywhere. I started powering up them, but after awhile just gave up because every time I would hit some of them climbing, it would just stop me cold. Both of us just ended up doing walkabike up the trail because we couldn't figure out how to get over them and it started wearing us down as well.
> 
> Then on top of it, we couldn't make it up the hill because by that time we weren't in the proper gearing anyway.
> 
> Wondered what tips you would have on getting over these things. My first thought was go to into higher gearing to power up. Didn't work out too well. Couldn't get enough momentum going for me.


Picking the line is very important...so is momentum, and of course lungs and legs....

Practise the section a few times then move on you will learn more quickly that way.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Climbs with roots are tough.

Line selection is important - if you get choices, try to give yourself the best chance to succeed.

After that, it's all about weight placement and timing. Shift back and let your front wheel float over a root, then hop the rear wheel up it when it gets to it. On a climb, it's often harder to keep the front wheel down than pop it up, so you shouldn't need to do much to get the front wheel up - just let it happen.

Gear selection can be a little funny. Going to a higher gear means you need to exert more force on the pedals to keep moving forward. You don't want to be in too low a gear or it's difficult to balance and you may not be able to move the bike far enough with the part of a pedal stroke you have time and room to make, but getting into higher gears for this sort of climb is rarely useful.

If I'm out riding on my own, or I've gotten ahead of a slower friend, and I run into something I can't do on the first try, I'll often repeat it.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Rocklion said:


> A buddy and I rode a new section of trail this week and then we hit something I hadn't stumbled on before. A steep climb with roots everywhere. I started powering up them, but after awhile just gave up because every time I would hit some of them climbing, it would just stop me cold. Both of us just ended up doing walkabike up the trail because we couldn't figure out how to get over them and it started wearing us down as well.
> 
> Then on top of it, we couldn't make it up the hill because by that time we weren't in the proper gearing anyway.
> 
> Wondered what tips you would have on getting over these things. My first thought was go to into higher gearing to power up. Didn't work out too well. Couldn't get enough momentum going for me.


The gearing part will just come with practice. Yes, a higher gear helped pull off most tech moves, but that is irrelevant if you can't push the gear. Also, if you are grinding up a steep hill in one gear it can be very difficult to then up-shift.

Whatever gear you are in, I find the key is to have some speed as you hit the root, so I give an extra little burst just as I get to it. I lean forward to get my weight as much over the front wheel as much as I can, then manual the front wheel over (another burst of the pedals helps here). Once the front is over the root, I try to get my weight as far up and forwards as possible, in order to un-weight the rear wheel. Sometimes this will actually stall the bike, but it is OK as long as the momentum of your body is still going uphill, or a lot of your weight is uphill of the root (this is why you want some extra speed). Once your weight is mostly on the front wheel, quickly shove the handlebar forwards, and un-weight your feet on the pedals, this will basically pull rear wheel over the root. In most cases, you want to give a push on the pedals as the rear wheel is making it over the root, it really depends on the traction you think you can get over the root, and if you need the extra boost to get you over the root.

Another way to think of it is that you want to un-weight whatever wheel is currently going over the root.

Strength is key for this type of climbing because the higher gear you are in and the more speed you have, the easier it is to pull off these moves.

Don't get discouraged, climbing steeps with roots is one of the most technically and physically demanding challenges in riding, and may take a while to get good at. In addition to taking some handling skills, it requires a burst of exertion to pull off the move at a time when you are likely already near your limit.


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## Rocklion (Jul 25, 2010)

kapusta said:


> Don't get discouraged, climbing steeps with roots is one of the most technically and physically demanding challenges in riding, and may take a while to get good at. In addition to taking some handling skills, it requires a burst of exertion to pull off the move at a time when you are likely already near your limit.


After hearing you and Andrew talk about how to get up those steeps, I found myself not feeling so bad about having to walk up them. That is definitely more technical than I realized.

It didn't occur to me while I was out there, but I think it would be good to practice it out there a few times.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Rocklion said:


> After hearing you and Andrew talk about how to get up those steeps, I found myself not feeling so bad about having to walk up them. That is definitely more technical than I realized.
> 
> It didn't occur to me while I was out there, but I think it would be good to practice it out there a few times.


AndrwSwithc and Kapusta gave some spot on advice. This is IMO the hardest technical aspect of riding. Go back to the hill with a plan to session it a few times and break your practice up into specific skills.

1. Practice hitting the hill hard and lifting the front wheel over. Don't worry about getting the back wheel over yet and be prepared to put a foot down as soon as the front wheel is over. Just get a feel for lifting the front wheel over. This is the easier part of the maneuver. Once you can get your front wheel over every time, then start working on the rear wheel.

2. The rear wheel is really tricky if the hill is steep. Where I live the hills are often steep enough that you have to keep pedaling over the root (unless you're rocketing up so fast you have enough momentum to coast a couple feet uphill). This means that if you unload the rear too much you will lose traction and spin out. On the other hand if you have most of your weight on the rear, it will stop you dead when it hits the root. Finding that balance that will let you maintain traction while still getting over the root is tough. You just have to try it until you get it.


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## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

roots are tough..wet roots even tougher..I do that quite a bit and hate it every time although I must admit that I now clear them all with gas still in the tank. 

I go thru a combo of quickly picking up the front wheel enough so that I either just clear the root or hit the root with minimal deflection so that it does not stop my momentum while in my bent over the bars, sat forward on the saddle, powering up the hill stance. If you have roots at a frequency where it isnt practical to actively focus on picking/lightening up the front then picking a line to "plow" thru is critical..I often try my best to aim for the shallowest part of the root sometimes I have to ride about the edge of the trail where their is more dirt built up about the root closer to the tree so that I have a "ramp" of sorts to help get across...it varies, but no doubt about it, it sure is a tough haul.

I'm not one of those guys that overly analyze or is into the zealotry of the wheel size debate but I have a particularly rooty and rocky section of my trail that I use both my FS 26" bike on and my rigid ss 29er w/ nicely cushed tires. I roll over the obstacles at a suprisingly easy effort on the 29er..I'm often astounded at what I clear, especially on the really steep and punchy stuff but find that I cant plow thru everything..I'm forced to choose and take well considered lines strangely enough so that I can manage the bouncy-bouncy of the rear..I'm cool with the front. the FS 26" is pretty awesome too, plus it has the gearing to preserve my energy and allow me to fly down the rooty and rocky steeps feeling very much in control..I cant do that so much on my rigid. Truth be told it's probably not the ideal terrain for a rigid bike anyhow but I do enjoy taking it thru that minefield..

What type of bike are you trying to tackle this with? Sometimes one style of bike has different methods ideal for certain scenarios.


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## Rocklion (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm using a 26" hardtail. A Nishiki Pinnacle.

Not the best in the world, but it seems to be doing okay as a starter bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Much as I hate to be a gear-monger, I think that the suspension fork can have a really big effect on how easy it is to negotiate rooty trails.

See if you can ride some of the same stuff on a friend's bike with a reasonable high end (Rock Shox Tora or higher, I think) suspension fork. If it makes a big difference, consider a new or rigid fork for your bike. I only ever had really low-end forks until a couple years ago, and never had saddle time on the upper end of the suspension forks available in the 90s.


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## Ganymede_Illusion (Mar 12, 2011)

Rocklion said:


> After hearing you and Andrew talk about how to get up those steeps, I found myself not feeling so bad about having to walk up them.


No, don't feel bad about walking. You can't tell me some of the pros don't walk sometimes, I've seen them do it at a race.

Those climbs are hard.... one wrong move and you get hung up. I bailed MANY times trying to figure it all out. These are not motorcycles, they are bicycles...even with all the high tec they can only do so much.

Just ride and have fun...if you have to bail out sometimes don't worry about it...

Just recently I aborted a downhill and cracked my ass. I go to cocky and half way down I bailed on it... My leg hurts in the backside 4 days after...I can't ride until it heels the doctor said...Could take over a month and I am wearing a brace on it.

This is my first major hurt on biking...I'm not going to be as gung ho anymore when I ride again...I can have just as much fun on the smoother trails.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Few choices:

1. Walk.
2. Smaller ring.
3. Learn to power through s#@! like a man.

2 of these are acceptable... the other is not.


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## 1-Speed (Jun 20, 2011)

First things first I prefer standing vs. sitting when climbing in general, but even more so when the climb involved roots. This is mostly because if you are sitting there is a good chance that you are going to be getting bounced around on the saddle and can easily lose your balance or cause irregularities in your pedal stroke.

I think the next most important thing if you standing is where you have your weight and how 'tall' you stand while riding. You should give yourself enough weight on the back tire so that your rear tire does not spin (this is the essential part), but not too much as you will find it harder to climb the father back you stand. 

To shift your weight you do not need to press down harder on your pedals or move your whole body to the front or back of the bike. Simplly bend your legs as if you were about to sit back down on the saddle and you will have your weight more in the back of the bike. Stand up taller to move your weight forward.

Finally I would suggest looking ahead. The more you know about the terrain that is coming up the better. Try to avoid as many roots as you can, even if that means riding towards the edges of the trail (this is usually the case). Off camber or washed out areas are places you want to avoid. Ride the HIGH GROUND!

Hope this helps!


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

kapusta said:


> Another way to think of it is that you want to un-weight whatever wheel is currently going over the root.
> 
> Strength is key for this type of climbing because the higher gear you are in and the more speed you have, the easier it is to pull off these moves.


This is my mantra going thru tech section. Especially "unweight" not pulling it the key for a smoother ride and the difference between cleaning the section or walk. I kid myself thinking smoother ride require less energy than mashing thru but it require more energy and core strength but once you master that you'll keep everything relative quiet and spend energy in the end.


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## navymtbr (Feb 2, 2004)

*Same issue*

My local trail has a short, steep S shaped hill with lots of roots. The problem is compounded as the trail is a lake loop so the roots are constantly wet. My "nemisis" kicks my butt more often than not. I find to overcome it it takes: 
1. Line (Avoid the deep rutted log that stops you cold)
2. Gear (I gear down 2-3 gears prior to the ascent) 
3. Weight (shifting fore and aft to weight and unweight specific tire)

I made it 1 out of 5 last year, coming close twice. BTW made it on the last trip so it took all summer to finally learn the lessons.

Keep trying, you'll make it eventually. In the words of John Popper:

"There's no such thing as a failure that keeps trying, coasting to the bottom is the only disgrace"


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

Body English and slow drills

Learn to weight and un-weight the front and rear separately as well together. Practice this by doing Slow drills across roots that are level. Find a large root or a limb or something, 6 or so inches in diameter and practice riding over it as slow as you possibly can. I mean SLOW, like as slow as you can without dabbing a foot. this will force you to weight and unweight the bike to get over it.

For climbing, slide WAY forward on the seat when you start climbing. It will be uncomfortable at first, but you will get used to it. Practice climbing as slow as possible on smooth sections with different positions on the saddle. you will feel a huge difference as you slide forward and you will get a feel of where you need to be without unloading the rear and spinning it out.

Finally, put it all together. Climb the root sections...as slowly as possible. if you can do it slowly, you can do it fast. Momentum will carry you over, but learnign it slow will allow you to know what to do if you lose momentum.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Dogbrain said:


> AndrwSwithc and Kapusta gave some spot on advice. This is IMO the hardest technical aspect of riding. Go back to the hill with a plan to session it a few times and break your practice up into specific skills.
> 
> 1. Practice hitting the hill hard and lifting the front wheel over. Don't worry about getting the back wheel over yet and be prepared to put a foot down as soon as the front wheel is over. Just get a feel for lifting the front wheel over. This is the easier part of the maneuver. Once you can get your front wheel over every time, then start working on the rear wheel.
> 
> 2. The rear wheel is really tricky if the hill is steep. Where I live the hills are often steep enough that you have to keep pedaling over the root (unless you're rocketing up so fast you have enough momentum to coast a couple feet uphill). This means that if you unload the rear too much you will lose traction and spin out. On the other hand if you have most of your weight on the rear, it will stop you dead when it hits the root. Finding that balance that will let you maintain traction while still getting over the root is tough. You just have to try it until you get it.


Agree with all this, and will add that practicing on a hill with waterbars or similar moderately-spaced obstacles will help you get the feel of the maneuvers, without the frustration factor.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

pfox90 said:


> Few choices:
> 
> 1. Walk.
> 2. Smaller ring.
> ...


In case my sarcasm meter has not suffered a rare malfunction :eekster:, if you haven't found a steep, rooted climb that could stop you in your tracks: A) you aren't riding very difficult trails, or B) we should all just stop what we're currently doing and humbly bow down to your omnipotent awesomeness 

OTOH, I think Kapusta and Dogbrain have made some pretty excellent suggestions :thumbsup:


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

It was obviously a joke. In Michigan we don't have what I would say severely technical trails, but we make the best we can. My local trail specifically has a rocky/rooty technical decent and ascent.


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Decide well in advance how you are going to ride up it. If you are sitting, pick a gear that allows you to easily pedal over it. If you are standing, ensure you have plenty of momentum, chances are you're not lucky enough to be crossing straight over a straight root, so if you are standing and pedalling with lots of torque as you pass over the root, you'll most likely lose the back end and have to stop.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

pfox90 said:


> It was obviously a joke. In Michigan we don't have what I would say severely technical trails, but we make the best we can. My local trail specifically has a rocky/rooty technical decent and ascent.


 Pretty sure you were joking, so I tried to leave us both an 'out' :thumbsup:


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## PhantomMs1 (Jun 9, 2011)

good tips from everyone! jsut like everyone said muslce the way up it but biggest choices are the route and which gear to be in, if you get both of these right it makes the climb much easier.


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## Rocklion (Jul 25, 2010)

pfox90 said:


> It was obviously a joke. In Michigan we don't have what I would say severely technical trails, but we make the best we can. My local trail specifically has a rocky/rooty technical decent and ascent.


I've just got one question.

WTH is the smaller ring?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The most common mountain bike drivetrain setup puts three gears, called chain rings, in front.


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## Rocklion (Jul 25, 2010)

Ahhh... Now I get it.

I wonder if I could invest in a great granny gear.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

That's why everyone on your other thread is saying to stick with a traditional 22/32/42 crankset.


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## Ganymede_Illusion (Mar 12, 2011)

I hear alot of people say you're cheating by using the granny gear....but I don't care what they say...I like that low gear and it makes my ride more fun.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ganymede_Illusion said:


> I hear alot of people say you're cheating by using the granny gear....but I don't care what they say...I like that low gear and it makes my ride more fun.


Cheating only happens when you "dab" and then tell everyone you cleaned it.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Ganymede_Illusion said:


> I hear alot of people say you're cheating by using the granny gear....but I don't care what they say...I like that low gear and it makes my ride more fun.


It would make a lot of sense coming from SS crowd The goal should be to maintain the cadence/rhythm you have regardless of gear you are in. There are benefit being in the bigger gear especially on the technical climbs because it's less torque so less chance you'd spin out your rear tire and it also provides extra burst of speed needed to clear certain obstacles.:thumbsup:


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Ganymede_Illusion said:


> I hear alot of people say you're cheating by using the granny gear.


I'd love to hear the rationale supporting that statement 

Sounds like the same closed-minded wankers that claim that anyone that drives 5 mph slower than them down the interstate is an old turd and anyone that drives 5 mph faster is an insane maniac :skep:



mimi1885 said:


> The goal should be to maintain the cadence/rhythm you have regardless of gear you are in. There are benefit being in the bigger gear especially on the technical climbs because it's less torque so less chance you'd spin out your rear tire and it also provides extra burst of speed needed to clear certain obstacles.:thumbsup:


I suppose that may be true for many if not the majority, but it isn't for me (a 260lb clyde) on steep/tech climbs. I find it's easier to regulate the torque as needed in a lower gear than it is to maintain the hp I require to keep moving in a taller gear. If I can hit a climb like that at speed and it won't take long to clear it, I can go after it in higher gears, but if it's going to take some time, I do better in lower gears and taking my saweeet time at a low cadence so I don't blow up.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Ganymede_Illusion said:


> I hear alot of people say you're cheating by using the granny gear....


Life is too short to listen to utter nonsense.

_"Cheating"_? Seriously?


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

who cares what others think. there's some good advice in this thread. pick some good lines, keep pedaling, pedal harder when going over the root, and keep pedaling. good luck! ez


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## dhfox (Mar 11, 2009)

Momentum is king. Pick the smoothest line. If you don't make it up the first time, evaluate if your gear was too high or low and if the line you chose was the smoothest or not. Make adjustments and give it another go. Don't let the hill beat you! (Believe me, your confidence will soar when you conquer that hill for the first time. Then the next time won't be as hard...)


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