# Best rear rack without braze ons?



## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

New bike day brings new bike questions. I just got my 2014 Kona Unit, and I just discovered that it has no braze ons for a rear rack or fenders. The LBS has a skewer mounted Blackburn in stock, and will get Thule or Old Man Mountain for a little more dough.

The Thule is appealing because it wouldn't be flopping around while I fix a tire, and it is designed to fit my Thule bags. The Blackburn is about half the cost, and the Old Man Mountain is US made. Weight is not a great concern, I usually have under twenty pounds on the rack between text books and groceries.

Any experience with these? Any other racks I should be considering?

Thanks.


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## rogbie (Jun 20, 2011)

Here are some options:

Have a local frame builder add rack and fender braze ons.

A seat bag. Something like one of these:

JPaks - SeatPak

Revelate Designs - Seat Bags

Honestly, a rear rack isn't going to fit this bike well. The long rack stays and the bend they'll need to reach the seat stays coupled with short chain stays makes for heel clearance issues and unstable loads.

Have you though about a front low rider rack with bags? Front loads have some advantages over rear loads: lower center of mass (helps improve handling when loaded); shifts extra weight from a high stress area of the frame (rear triangle) to a relatively low stress/stronger tube junction area (fork and HT/DT/TT). The Old Man Mountain Ultimate Lowrider is perfect for this application. It even fits squishy forks, should you want to adventure with this ride.*

Edit:*


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Rogbie, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. I hadn't thought about a front rack, as the P2 fork is also short on braze ons. I will have a look around. I need to carry text books and groceries etc, so I hadn't considered seat bags or frame bags, I will look at your links and see if I am just stereotyping.

The chain stays on the Unit seem to be as long or longer than those on the Bosanova, heel strike was an issue on the Jamis until I got an Axiom rack with funny little feet. Unfortunately that rack requires braze ons and I'm not ready to set anyone loose brazing on my new frame just yet.

My inaugural ride tonight had about 14lbs of groceries on the cheap skewer mount rack. I was happy enough with the performance and the heel clearance while wearing my clodhoppers, but this may be new bike enthusiasm rather than scientific proof.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

I think the Thule is pretty cool.

But I used a couple of different racks on my Unit with hose clamps and a seatclamp mount:



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https://flic.kr/p/gsgNYQ


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https://flic.kr/p/bp1MbW


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https://flic.kr/p/bp1MvW

That worked pretty well, and it meant I could use whatever.

And I put electrical tape under the clamps, and after a couple of years the seatstays are still pristine.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Newfangled, any issues with the clamps rotating and clearances changing? This is opening many new possibilities.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

I would and have done what newfangled did.

5/8 in. Rubber Insulated Metal Clamps (2-Pack), 67792 at The Home Depot - Tablet

That one is 5/8, but they come in smaller sizes. Then use whatever rack you want, including a front rack if it fits better in back.

PS Rusted, no issues on my wife's bike with a 20 lb load on a 4-day dirt trip. Using fiber locknuts or Lock-tite or both is good idea.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

As luck would have it, I have a stash of these clamps. I have been considering building up a rack in ash or oak with bent stays for some time. Do I need to build in reinforcement against them slipping/ twisting/ rotating, or do they seem to stay when well tightened?


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Newfangled and She&I: sorry I'm getting sloppy, I really appreciate the advice. it has been a long day. Thanks for the suggestions.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ the clamps didn't rotate, but I think having a really rigid connection at the seatclamp helps with that (ie. I was bolting to one of these things rather than using clamps up top).

The lower clamps would slide down to where the seatstay widens out at the dropout. So generally I couldn't slam my sliders all the way forward, but like you can see in the photos I could still get them pretty close. I think I lost a few mms.

What I'd considered was moving the clamps a little higher on the seatstays to where I really wanted them, and then cranking down on some zipties just below the clamps on the stays (I'm not explaining this well) that would prevent the clamps from sliding down. But I just switched my frame to something else, and never did try that.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks Newfangled, that is what I needed to hear. I am considering adding a link to my chain to push the sliders back to make more room for fenders, so not being all the way forward isn't much of an issue at the moment. 

It may be off- topic, but, that Gryphon is one fine looking piece of machinery. I hope it is giving you as many smiles per mile as this Unit is giving me. Thanks again.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ speaking of adding links, with the 2011 when I ran 33x18 I needed to have the wheel almost all the way forward, and that was possible (but annoying) with the clamps. But 32x18 or 32x16 or 33x16 all changed the chainlength enough (just a couple of mms) that they weren't as annoying. But for 33x18 I could have added a half-link if I'd really needed to.

I loved the Unit, and only swapped it because I got hooked on dropbars, and that frame was inevitably going to give me the shoulders of a senior citizen. Thankfully the Gryphon seems to have fixed that. And after a month it's finally starting to feel like "my" bike - but I don't think winter is the best time to break in a new frame. I'm really looking forward to seeing what it can do with dirt under its wheels.

Oh, and I used the 3/4" clamps with a bit of tape under them. (edited to add: and thinking about it 3/4" may have been too big, which is why it slid down. 1/2" was way too small. If I'd found 5/8" like She&I says, that might have been perfect)


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## Jays200 (Jan 14, 2015)

Rustedthrough said:


> The LBS has a skewer mounted Blackburn in stock, and will get Thule or Old Man Mountain for a little more dough.
> 
> The Thule is appealing because it wouldn't be flopping around while I fix a tire, and it is designed to fit my Thule bags.
> 
> Thanks.


I have been researching racks for my new AXA29er and came across this Thule (Old Freeload) system.






Is it what you are referring to when you mention Thule?


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks again Newfangled, I've got some 5/8" and some 3/4" clamps in the garage, we'll see what works.

Jays, that looks like the Thule rack I have been ogling. The current model claims to have the magnetic attachments in the tubes and side frames available to carry non- Thule bags. My LBS has had positive feedback on it, but it is not cheap and the side frames are another $50 or so if you want to hang someone else's panniers on it.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

The Thule/freeload looks so nice. Using clamps with my gryphon is working a little less well than it did on the Unit (a bunch of weird points of interference) and I think the Thule will ultimately be my solution...but it's so pricey.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

I would go with the Freeloader if I was in the market for a new rack. The seat post mounted Topeak beam rack and trunk bag with zipper panniers I have is fine for commuting and has been for 5 years. Like you the max I ever need to haul is about 20lbs (usually groceries 2 or 3 times a week) its pretty nifty for lightweight hotel touring on a road bike and takes less than 60 secs to transfer between bikes. However loads mounted onto the stays are slightly more stable, and easier to get a lower CG with, my buddy has a pre Thule Freeloader (I think thule bought the patent from some guys in NZ) and it is more stable at 15 to 20lbs than the seatpost beam rack

BTW I use a Revelate Vischata seat bag bikepacking and it's great; not ideal for commuting though - with 20lbs in it will swing about too much; also the closure and form make it awkward for carting text books and groceries.

If budget is your primary concern can't you get a skewer mount kit for about $30. I've seen these used with disc brakes before, they also include a bracket that mounts the rack behind the dropout so short stays are not so much of an issue. Obviously frame and rack dependent
Something like this
Wiggle | Tubus Adapter Set For QR-Axle Mounting | Pannier Racks

I know a local frame builder that knocks custom aluminium dropout mounts for pretty much any rack, drop out and axle combination for something like $25 to $50 there is probably someone local to you who can do similar.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks all. I mounted the cheap skewer mount rack with a minor modification, this will get me going for now. I am tinkering with some ideas for an all wood rack, my marriage might survive better if I get the Thule and call it done.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

SimpleJon said:


> If budget is your primary concern can't you get a skewer mount kit for about $30. I've seen these used with disc brakes before, they also include a bracket that mounts the rack behind the dropout so short stays are not so much of an issue. Obviously frame and rack dependent
> Something like this
> Wiggle | Tubus Adapter Set For QR-Axle Mounting | Pannier Racks


That kit is meant for tubus racks, which have two screwholes at the "feet" that stiffen the connection. Using it with a normal rack I'd worry that the whole thing would rotate down. It might not if everything was really tightened down, but the tubus racks are definitely designed different from most others.

There are cheaper racks like these though:

Streamliner 29er DLX - Streamliner Racks - Racks - Products - Axiom Performance Gear

(I wish they mentioned the tire clearance)


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

newfangled said:


> That kit is meant for tubus racks, which have two screwholes at the "feet" that stiffen the connection. Using it with a normal rack I'd worry that the whole thing would rotate down. It might not if everything was really tightened down, but the tubus racks are definitely designed different from most others.
> 
> There are cheaper racks like these though:
> 
> ...


Yep, sorry if it wasn't clear but I was just intending it as an example, however I've generally found that a dremmel tool helps greatly in making the non compatible compatible.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ no worries, I just think that wiggle page should be more clear that that is really, specifically only for tubus racks. I've almost been tricked by it before.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Looked again at the Thule website. The commuter rack can be mounted on the fork as well as on the rear. There would be something to be said for being able to mount the same rack and bags front or rear to test Rogbie's theory of weight distribution for my own riding style and terrain.

The Axiom rack I have can be skewer mounted (wish I'd known that before I started looking elsewhere- Thanks Newfangled and Simplejon), so in theory, I could get the Thule and have the option of running it on the front with the Axiom stolen from my Bosanova on the rear, or run the Thule on the front of the Bosanova for a more likely touring set- up.

Looks like I need to save my pennies and get my taxes filed, the Thule is on the shopping list unless someone has a better solution.


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## rogbie (Jun 20, 2011)

The OMM front rack doesn't need braze-ons. It works with the skewer and p-clips.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Rustedthrough said:


> The Axiom rack I have can be skewer mounted...


Have you tried this with the Unit?

One of my problems with the gryphon is that my rack is really close to the top of my tire. And that's with my winter 2.25 on there. Eventually I'll switch to a 2.4, and I'd love to run a 2.8ish once there are some available.

Looking at photos online, it seems like a lot of racks have pretty minimal vertical clearance with 29ers.

Axiom has their "29er" rack, and I've asked them for the dimensions just to see how different it is from their normal racks. But I haven't heard back from them yet.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

I haven't tried the Axiom on the Unit yet. The extension feet could be mounted to your p clips as well as to the skewers. I'll take a closer look in the next few days.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Do you know which Axiom rack you've got?

There's an amazon review where someone had to macgyver the Journey Unifit to get it to work skewer-mounted on a 29er:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3TFU9...009VU3RAU&nodeID=3375251&store=sporting-goods


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Sorry, I don't know the model and I can't seem to find it on Axiom's website. This is a poor photo of it in my garage tonight wounded over 700x 37s with the longer extension feet set at the 28" wheel size, set at 29 inch it was significantly taller. You might make it out better in the fender photo, than in the dark garage photo.

This is mounted on the braze- ons, so mounted at the skewer would drop it some.

I'll get the model located and let you know.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Looks to be this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Journey...F8&qid=1421810216&sr=8-14&keywords=axiom+rack


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Good info. It's definitely one of their unifit models, which is what the guy on amazon modded.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

I'll try to swap it onto the Unit this weekend and let you know how it goes before you order one. Unless you are feeling bold. On the Bosanova, I love the rack and mounting it was painless.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Bad news Newfangled, I tried to mount the Axiom using the skewer for a mount. It just clears my Nicotines (29x 2.35), just, meaning 3" tires would be out of the question without modification.

It does look like you could drill another hole for the upper bolt holding the feet to the rack legs to raise it another inch and a half or so. This might cause some interference with the disc brake mechanism if you take it too far.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ very cool. Thanks for the input. So the height is tight, but there's plenty of width?


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Cleared mine with lots of width to spare. I just measured: 3.75" inside to inside on the tubing at its narrowest point.

Also, I saw a comment somewhere that the Thule rack might have trouble fitting tires over 2.5", worth checking if you are considering ordering one.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ I saw that review of the thule too. Mtbxplorer has one, so if I was going to order it I'd ask her about it first.

I actually stopped by the LBS yesterday to see what they had in stock and hoping to get some measurements, but they just had the boring racks and none of the uni-fit or the streamliners. But they said they could order something in, and they'd let me return it if it didn't fit.

The axiom website has drawings for the Journey and Streamliner, and the Journey is 1/2" shorter than the streamliner, but is much wider (and could be modded like the amazon guy). There's also the 29er streamliner which I assume is taller than either of those, but which looks really narrow.

So I might have them order the 29er rack just to see if it fits.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

^Interesting. Keep us posted as to how it fits. 

The Blackburn thingy would probably fit your tires with the skewer mount, and I can't even pretend it doesn't work just fine. It just doesn't look right.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Heard back from Thule today. Their current model racks have about 3" wide clearance at the posts. Meaning they would work with my current 2.5" wide tires, but will be a little close for your "portly" tire hopes Newfangled.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks. I actually got the shop to order the 29er axiom rack, and I figure I'll measure that since Axiom hasn't responded to my email. The same shop has a Thule Rack with sideframes in stock, so I can always go that route if I'm feeling spendy.

My frame realistically only has 3" clear, so it won't fit a knard, but I'm holding out hope that we'll maybe see a few 2.5+ tires in the future.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

This is what I have mounted currently: CENTRAL REAR RACK

It is skewer mounted and not very pretty, but it clears my (actual width 2.5") Nicotines with room to spare. I run Thule panniers, so the idea of paying for the side frames never crossed my mind.


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## rogbie (Jun 20, 2011)

Just thought about it: Surly makes racks with lots of clearance, could be an option.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ one thing about the Surly rack is that they won't fit a lot of frames with disks. 

I think all of surly's frames either have the swiss-army-knife reardropout like the troll, or there's a pannier mount infront of the caliper like the pugs. But if your frame is drilled right by the dropout then there will be interference, although I guess you could mount p-clamps way up infront of the brake? Or you could put in a big spacer, but I'm not a fan of that.


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## rogbie (Jun 20, 2011)

Yet another reason disc brakes don't belong on road bikes. I mean, besides, the giant disc brake that is the rim...

"CANTIS FOREVERRRRRR"


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

*Streamliner 29er dlx*

Just to finish my part of this story...

Axiom got back to me, and the 29er streamliner has 410mm vertical clearance vs 395mm for the normal streamliner vs 385mm for the Journey Uni-fit in 29er mode.

So I got the 29er streamliner and mounted it to the QR on my gryphon:


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https://flic.kr/p/qJPX6T

With the rack mounted to the QR, the knobbie-things the hold the feet-things totally interfered with the tire, so I had to flip them up to the top of the deck. I've got a trunk bag I use sometimes that might interfere with them, but I should be able to make it work:
(the rack also comes with a single sheetmetal stay that could be used instead of the feet-things, but that's less fun)


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https://flic.kr/p/r2hoSa

Width clearance is about 3 1/4", but my frame's clearance is just a little under 3", so that works. This bike will never fit a Knard anyway, but for Krampus or true 29+ the rack's width would probably be an issue. But for any normal 29er tire it should work:


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https://flic.kr/p/qYZkLN

This rack has a set of "low" rails to keep the panniers close to the ground, but they are right at the same level as the widest part of the tire. So if I mount my panniers on the low rails, the pannier clips are really close to the tire. So I'll be using the top rails:


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https://flic.kr/p/qYZpbU

My frame is drilled for a rack at the dropouts, so I could gain another 1" of height if I wanted to. But for now I'm going to leave it on the QR, at least until I see how annoying it is to try changing a tire.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Beautiful, thanks for the report.


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## Rustedthrough (Aug 19, 2014)

Almost hate to admit it, but I had forgotten how much I disliked the QR mounted Blackburn when I got it. It lacks the elegance of the Axiom Newfangled has, or the clean lines of the Thule, but it has unfailingly hauled stuff through the snow.


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