# Overwhelmed - where do I start?



## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

Hi all,

New to the forum, I don't know where to start. I thought this would be easy pick bike and go ride. The more I am reading the more complicated this looks.

I want to keep it simple, I want to spend under $1000 less the better and take it to my local park to ride occasionally with my family.

Do I need special apparel, which helmet, what shoes?


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

For starters, I don't ride anywhere without a helmet so that's a vital accessory in my opinion. Most all decent ones sold in the US should meet safety requirements. After that it's picking one the fits you well, has good ventilation and appeals to your sense of style. LOL. 

As for shoes, unless you go with clipless pedals then any decent rubber soled tennis shoe can work on flat pedals. Pedal and shoe combinations will vary your comfort and grip experience. A good pair of bike shorts (padded / chamois) definitely makes a difference on longer rides. 

As for the bike itself, probably the key question to ask yourself is where you'll be riding it the most. Paved or crushed gravel trails, smooth or rocky/root-filled singletrack or really gnarly tracks with larger rocks & drops to navigate?

Most people here caution to buy a bike that fits well for 90% or so of your riding. That's key to really getting value out of your investment. 

If most of what you'll ride is smooth pavement or gravel paths, then you could get away with a coil fork, hard tail bike. While you can ride rougher singletrack with a decent coil fork (I did it for 4 years), a decent air fork will usually make for a better experience. If you are a bigger person, then an air fork with 32 to 34mm stanchions would be preferable. 

At your budget, unless you're comfortable buying a used bike, then it would be pretty tough finding a decent full-suspension bike for that money. 

Buying used can help maximize the amount of bike you get for the money but that's a route you have to really be careful about unless you (or a buddy) is knowledgeable on what you're looking at. 

I started on a $125 Walmart Mongoose that was just sitting in our barn and still had a blast with it. But I got the MTB bug pretty bad and quickly discovered that bike wasn't going to hold up too much longer. Then I got my first "real" mountain bike (Trek hard tail for about $900) and discovered how much different the ride quality could be with a good bike. 

Good luck in your quest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

It is overwhelming at first but it doesn't have to be. For $1k you can get a pretty good Hard Tail (if you are going to venture into trails) The main thing is the bike fits, so the first advice would probably be to visit your local bike shop and sit on some bikes for fit and seeing what you like. Reading will help but talking to the shop will be a huge help. Look for last years models on sale, you can get some deep discounts, and if riding trails be sure you have a decent air fork or go rigid (no suspension) Marin Pine Mountain 1

Round up: Best value mountain bikes under $1000 - Mtbr.com

Helmet is a must but you have decent helmets at decent prices (Kali Protectives is what I use) - Shoes, since you are going with flat pedals (most likely) any running shoes will do.

You do need to think hydration as well as tire repair kit/extra tube etc. It all depends on your goals and where you will end up riding. You will get quite a few more suggestions from the more knowledgeable dudes. Welcome


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

What are the trails like where you live? Mountains, flat gravel paths, jumps, sandy?

If you want to stick to sneakers and flat pedals, ride some broad, flat-soled shoes and if the pedals that come with the bike are small, get some bigger, stickier pedals.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

Thank you all for your reply and suggestions and making me feel welcome to this community. 

I am 6ft and 195lbs, don't know if that is considered heavy or not in the bike world. I could loose a few pounds, hopefully this hobby will let me have fun and get some health benefits as well.

I think I want to start slow and then build up riding different types of trails. I will probably start with a mix of smooth gravel and gravel paths and then venture out into more challenging trails for me. I do want a bike that can handle most of it.

I watched a few videos and in one video the guy recommended the Diamondback hook for $600 new, which is quite affordable and in the other video I saw a Tokul 3 was recommended and the guy took it through some pretty hard trails (don't know if I am using the right terms here). His review said that the bike took all the test he put it through pretty well. But I see that bike sold out on the website, so not sure how I can get one.

Also, do you guys buy stuff like helmets etc online, how would I know the fit? I feel like a bike shop or REI will be more expensive than Amazon or any other online retailer.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

This is a recommended bike at your max free shipping no tax. You have to put the front wheel, handlebars and seat on. There are Youtube vids on assembling a bike. It is a good beginning for the skill you need out on the trail. A small time investment.
Diamondback Bicycles - Bikes - Mountain - All Mountain - Hardtail - Mason
We can give you the Corporate Sponsorship Program info for the discount.
What it has-
Rockshox Secktor air fork
27.5+ tires and wide rim wheels- good for even difficult terrain and safer for learning
Boost 15 x 110 front hub wheel
Boost 148 x 12 rear hub wheel
Sram NX 1 x 11
Good geo.









There are other good bikes.
REI may have stock to check out.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

In order not to do the nasty thing of going into an bike shop and trying a helmet then buying on-line - I went to Walmart and tried on what fitted best, then I bought it online based on the size, I pretty much knew I was small/med but it is something that you don't want to totally cheap out on, as well as have a good fit. 

Also on the bike keep in mind if you buy on line, you will need to get it assembled by the shop (about $75 depending) unless you know your way around the bike. It sounds like you would benefit by visiting a few local shops. Some are better than others. Jenson USA has some sales right now in case you want to take a look in there, see if anything fits the bill.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

eb1888 said:


> This is a recommended bike at your max free shipping no tax. You have to put the front wheel, handlebars and seat on.
> Diamondback Bicycles - Bikes - Mountain - All Mountain - Hardtail - Mason
> We can give you the Corporate Sponsorship Program info for the discount.
> What it has-
> ...


That looks surprisingly good, especially if can be had for closer to $1k.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hawk's response is pretty much exactly what I'd normally write. If you don't know what you want, just start with a used bike that's in good condition and ride it. If you like it, keep it. If not, identify what you don't like, buy a new bike, and sell the old one. As long as you're riding.

For the "other stuff"
Helmet, definitely, no question, get a helmet. A lot of the big box store helmet's are OK, but try them on. Some are comfy, some are not.

Saddle bag, get one. They're cheap, $7 on amazon. Put in a multi-tool and any other common item you want to bring with you. I put a multi-tool, tube repair kit, tire lever, extra quick link chain connector, derailleur hanger, and toilet paper. There are also stem bags ($7 on amazon) that attach to the steer tube/top tube, but they need to be small or you will hit them with your knees. Sometimes called bento bags, they have enough room for a phone and a couple packets of gu. Not a lot, but enough room.

Multi-tool. I like the crankbros 21 (~$25). Has everything I need to almost completely disassemble my bike if needed. Ton of comparable ones. Don't get the $5 one from wallyworld though. It will quickly round out the hex keys and damage bolts.

Water bottle & cage. Camelbak podium chill ($15) is my personal favorite. insulated, bigger bottles are available to carry more water, gets weight down low instead of on your back, and one of the better lids/caps. In reality, you can shove any old Gatorade bottle into a $2 bottle cage.

Camelbak, or the various knockoff versions, If you're ever going to be more than 2 miles from a trailhead, worth bringing a camelback with extra snacks and little conveniences. Extra water for long rides, plus I normally carry a small 7" pruning saw, spare tube, first aid kit, cable ties (zip strips), insect repellent, and candy/gu. Great place to shove a phone, wallet, and keys so you don't loose them on the trail. You can normally fit a few items in a saddle bag, but not everything.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Do yourself a favor and buy a helmet in person or at least test the fit in person. If not, you will find yourself buying multiple helmets. 

I would look through all of the thread on this bike vs that bike here in the first 3 pages of the forum and you will find some good bike recommendations for under 1K. I don't care where you are riding, I would try to get a bike with disc brakes and a descent fork if you go new. 


There is some high value in the used market if you are patient, but you have to watch daily and you have to move fast. For example there is a currently a 2012 scott full suspension 29er here locally for 800. That would be one HELL of a starter bike and you wont loose your ass if you sell it when you grow tired. 

The market for full suspension 26s has tanked, so you can also pick these up for a song. (close to 500) Just know that the older you get on full suspension, the more likely that those parts have gone unserviced and you will need to replace them or service them. 


Like many here, I hopped on a bike we had in the garage and rode it around for a month. XL steel Hardrock. I never even set foot on anything other than granite trails and street. Then I bought a used hardtail for 250 bucks with a burly DJ 120MM fork on it, and had fun for 9 months before building up a carbon hardtail on the side. When I got that first hard tail, I rode it straight in some aggressive trail ad learned to ride. I didn't find my way to beginner level trails for a few more months. 

Nothing wrong with picking up a super cheap quality used bike and saving that budget. Much better than blowing 600 on a crap new bike that is instantly worth 200 bucks when you ride it out of the department store. 


If you have some bikes in mind, we can help you out or feel free to post used bikes you find. Feel free to post craigslist links.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The Raleigh Tokul 3 is a lower spec version of the Mason with a Suntour XCR air fork for about 600 with Corp code. But all sizes are currently out of stock. You'd have to wait. The 4130 is steel with a Yari 34mm fork for about 1k. also out of stock.
Raleigh Bikes, 2017 Tokul 3
Raleigh Bikes, 2017 Tokul 4130

These bikes can handle a lot.





More should be in soon for spring.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

The DB mason look sweet... can anyone use corporate discount. I am hesitant about assembling it myself, but if its not to difficult for a beginner, I can try. Would you guys suggest a beginners to assemble a bike correctly?

I also saw a 
I am thinking that maybe I should start with something that is under $500 for a bike and see how I like it. Since I will be riding occasionally there is not reason to spend a lot of money upfront and slowly upgrade later once I can really get into.

I saw a diamondback for $399 at Costco. Diamondback Overdrive ST Mountain Bike 2016, what do you guys think of this?


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

surfer369 said:


> I saw a diamondback for $399 at Costco. Diamondback Overdrive ST Mountain Bike 2016, what do you guys think of this?


I would avoid a bike from Costco unless you're willing to do the work on it. There are comparable bikes (some might say better) available online from bikesdirect, Nashbar or Jenson for less money. They fall into the category of, you are the mechanic. Do you trust your life on your ability to adjust the brakes properly? This is where a good bike shop comes in. Costco will not have highly qualified mechanics spending time with the bike long enough to assemble it properly and adjust everything that a true LBS will adjust. They might hire LBS mechanics, but on a "build as many as you can as fast as you can" basis and not on a "build them properly" basis.

As far as the bike specs go, for smooth dirt, gravel, and the occasional rock and root, it'll be OK. Not great, but OK. The fork is a pogo stick that will bounce you around on any actual rock strewn trail. It's a starter bike, and it will survive pretty much whatever you throw at it though. It just won't be as much fun to ride as other bikes.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

watts888 said:


> As far as the bike specs go, for smooth dirt, gravel, and the occasional rock and root, it'll be OK. Not great, but OK. The fork is a pogo stick that will bounce you around on any actual rock strewn trail. It's a starter bike, and it will survive pretty much whatever you throw at it though. It just won't be as much fun to ride as other bikes.


I am curious now, are you saying its like when ppl talk about cars. A Honda will get the job done and take you from point A to B, but doing it in a BMW will be more fun. If this is true, than for my needs looks like I just get a cheap decent bike and it will do its job.

Or would the experience on a cheap bike be so bad that I wont want to ride at all?


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Just my $.02 but I would look into a 18-19" hard tail or dual suspension bike on craigslist. You can get A LOT more for your money than buying a new bike. 

Figure a bike that's $1000 new will go for half that or most likely less in a few years. 

I would suggest test riding a few bikes, make sure you're confident what size & what type you want and then take a glance at what's available used. You might find something that saves you hundreds or more. Or you might decide new is the way to go.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

surfer369 said:


> Or would the experience on a cheap bike be so bad that I wont want to ride at all?


When properly adjusted and a few personalization's, a cheap bike can still be fun. Better, lighter tires with tread designed for the stuff you ride, proper cockpit setup, good tire pressure. I had a beat up $40 trek 820, cheap pos heavy bike bike, and I rode it on trails for a little while. In comparison to my good bikes, kinda sucked performance wise on the rough stuff, but on smoother dirt, it worked OK. I swapped out the fork to a rigid steel fork, new brake pads, and better tires. Huge improvement. It was OK on the trails, and even handled rocks and roots well (although it did shake my teeth some). Riding it on road/gravel/asphalt was fine. It fit well, had the cockpit setup how I wanted it, and most importantly, I was riding a bike. Better to ride a junky bike that fits and is set up OK than not riding at all.

Benefit of buying used. You're not getting sticker shock and you can usually sell it for about the same price you paid. Look for a name brand bike shop bike that has parts comparable to that diamondback, and it should be good.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

I would be loathe to advise annewbie to buy used unless the have a trusted knowldegable friend to help. Yes used you get good value, but i can guarantee there is some kind of issue with it. Every second hand bike, car etc ive bought had something with it, but i knew it and could deal with it. Used its buyer beware, once you buy it its yours.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

I ride a $400 GT Backwoods from Performance Bike. I love it. Granted i don't know the difference between it and good bikes. I also don't know if could tell a difference. 

I'm 240 pounds and haven't had a single issue with it. I ride legitimate trails in the Texas Hill Country with it. 

I think the $400 entry level bikes are a great way to start mtbing! Good value, and i haven't seen anyone having more fun than me on the trails, yet.

Full disclosure: i am looking at upgrading significantly, but I've owned the bike for a couple years and have determined i really like mtbing and will stick with it. Far less financial risk starting with that bottom end, yet true, mtb.

Frankly, I'm only looking at upgrading because I've convinced myself i want a plus bike. I'm less than convinced it's worth it financially!

If you wanted to sell it you're not taking a huge loss, and if you upgrade and still keep it you're not taking a huge loss. 

I would get the GT again, in a heartbeat, were i to hit rewind.

I'm a professional in my 40s-$1000 bike is not exactly a difficult expenditure for me. However, I'm frugal and think a $400 bike is a very difficult decision to beat for a beginner, unless you know you're the type to be upgrading significantly ($1500+) shortly after starting out.

I just don't see how a new $1000 bike is really that much different in the experience???


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

^^^ agreed! I bought my first bike new from an LBS for a few different reasons. First, I got the new bike warranty which help my anxiety about dealing with an unfamiliar piece of equipment. Second, that LBS offered lifetime tuneups on new bike purchases. So that was at least one maintenance option if I wouldn't or couldn't wrench on it myself. Lastly, I was hoping to build a relationship with an LBS for the long haul. Didn't really work out with that particular shop, but my intent was honorable IMHO.

But if I had a trusted friend who was knowledgeable, I don't think I'd shy away from buying used at this point.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

To give you more motivation, I started on a $300.00 Bikesdirect bike and it did fine for the period I rode it, but I also decided I wanted to do this so eventually upgraded to a $700.00 bike (last year's model at the time MSRP $1200.00) then after that I went/still going bananas but that's because bikes and this is sport is so awesome. I'm still the slowest most over biked guy but I don't care, I'm still having a blast. You can start on anything and decide from there. Another note, I did buy my 2nd bike used for $400.00 in impeccable shape 2012 Kona Jake (CX bike) but by then I knew a bit more about what to look for, and with help w/this forum I went for it. Whatever you get it will be tons of fun and we expect a good story with pictures once you pull the trigger.


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

FWIW... although I bought my first bike from an LBS, I bought my 2nd bike online. The only "assembly" I had to do on that was basically put the wheels and handlebar on it (might have been a few other small items, nothing else major that I can remember). The site did have links to a how-to-assemble article and video, and other things to check before that first ride so that helped a lot. I'm NOT mechanically inclined, but managed OK on getting that online bike put together. 

I'm sure the different online vendors will vary in how much assembly you have to do once you get the bike delivered, so YMMV.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

HawkGX said:


> But if I had a trusted friend who was knowledgeable, I don't think I'd shy away from buying used at this point.


For what it's worth, there's a significant chance I'd rather have a new bike at $400 or 500 than a three year old one that was twice that new but for the same price now used.

I'll take the zero wear and tear, no damage/warranty, free perks, three years newer components at the same price. I'm not sure the slightly better, but older, worn components are worth the slight risk.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

gr7070 said:


> I just don't see how a new $1000 bike is really that much different in the experience???


After riding that GT for a couple years, if you ride rocks and roots with a lot of turns, you'd see the difference. It will be subtle, but with modern wider rims, 2.4" tires, and an air fork with adjustable rebound damping, you'll know. To elaborate on the earlier comment comparing cars. The GT is like a V6 mustang. Good power and, lots of fun to drive. A bike with an air fork is like the V8 mustang. A bit more power, better tuned suspension, alloy rims. Subtle differences that you'll only pick up on after riding the v6 mustang for a couple years and pushing it hard. Of course, once you get a v8 mustang, you want to push it hard.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

watts888 said:


> After riding that GT for a couple years, if you ride rocks and roots with a lot of turns, you'd see the difference. It will be subtle, but with modern wider rims, 2.4" tires, and an air fork with adjustable rebound damping, you'll know. To elaborate on the earlier comment comparing cars. The GT is like a V6 mustang. Good power and, lots of fun to drive. A bike with an air fork is like the V8 mustang. A bit more power, better tuned suspension, alloy rims. Subtle differences that you'll only pick up on after riding the v6 mustang for a couple years and pushing it hard. Of course, once you get a v8 mustang, you want to push it hard.


The Hill Country has its share of roots and rocks, I've had about two years, and i believe i will upgrade this spring. I'm about to find out what i think.

Granted I'll be upgrading to a $1500 bike not $1000, which does seem (to me) like that's a more worthy price point to upgrade to???

Having said that I'm going from a 29er to a 29+ so i won't likely know how much difference in ride/performance is due to improved components vs. the plus bike.


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## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

If you want simplicity, when riding with a group you plan to ride with for a long time, I recommend getting something that's very similar to what the rest of the group has. If it's all out of your budget range, chances are that the brand that they're on also offers lower budget models. I recommend doing the same for racing too, getting what others are racing. It's sort of like leveling the playing field, and letting your individual skills stand out.

Though simple, it's not the most ideal from an individual standpoint. If you get something different, you might just then be considered the local guru if it proves to be the wisest choice. That might lead to you being burdened with eyes watching you, and compel you to research and further choose wisely. Might be a bit stressful, if you hate to disappoint others, but you're going to have to face the challenge of being overwhelmed head on then, until you get on top of it... but by then, you know so much in-depth, that the eyes that were following, won't have a clue what you're talking if you try to reason why what you choose might not be best for them and that everything depends on individual circumstances.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

If you have $1000, spend the first few on a helmet you will be willing to wear every time you ride. Helmet, don't ride without it. Gloves, get padded gloves. 

You can get a beginner suitable bike for the ~$800-850 you'll have left at your Local Bike Store (LBS) and you will love it. You will not get as much bike for the remaining money at the local bike shop, but you will get advice, know-how and insights on your local trails. If you aren't sure, that help is worth paying for. You can be confident in the set-up. As you get some miles under your belt, you may realize there are some features you want to have, you will have some experience to reference as you explore options. But you will still have fun. So waste no more time being overwhelmed.

I bought my first bike from the LBS but have bought others online. The best decision overall was to get something and ride ASAP.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

iliketexmex said:


> The best decision overall was to get something and ride ASAP.


That's actually a very nice benefit to buying inexpensive, new. A used bike may take time to find the right one at the right price.

Of course one needs to make a smart, good buy. Take enough time for that.

A new $400 GT or similar low margin bike isn't likely going on sale soon, not for a deep discount. It's already a great value buy. No need to wait too long to get that bike and ride!

Shoot, i paid $400 for mine a couple years ago and was a good price then. It's an even better price in today's dollars.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

All very good advice given by all of you. This is a great community!!!
I think the more I read and learn, I feel like getting the right bike the first time around and using it for a couple years. At this point I don't know if I will get the upgrade bug, but I may. So maybe I should focus on like you guys said, but something now and start riding and upgrade as I come to lean what I would prefer in my next bike. 

I am planning to go to REI today to check out a few bikes, do they provide services like the LBS.

Some people have the time and passion to devote to build their bikes and maintain them etc. I don't think I am one of those, I see myself having a bike that I can occasionally take to the park to ride and have some fun and not have to deal with very little maintenance. Again this may change as I learn more.
Are there any good youtube video which teach about bike maintenance that a beginner can watch and follow? 

buying a GT as someof you suggested, I feel like paying $200 more and getting the Tokul 3. 

I read somewhere that its better to have a 27.5 plus than a skinny 29'er. Which do you guys recommend?


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

27.5plus for the win. You can always put 29er wheels in it at a later time. Some 27plus frames even allow 29er plus (which is what I do).

The tokul3 is a good bike, and can't go wrong with it. Similar to the Diamondback Mason, although the Mason will give you a better fork.

Some REI are good, some are acceptable. If they have a bike shop in the store, good bet it's going to be about LBS quality service (but once again, some LBS are good, some are not). If they have a bike shop in the store, you'll probably be able to bring the bike back in for tuneups at zero/low cost. If it's really messed up, they'll probably charge some. I'm pretty sure a local REI around me offered their first tune-up as part of the original cost. Give the bike a little bit of ride time to break in.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

I will second the 27+ vote for someone new. The gripping and shock absorption of the tire will be more forgiving of mistakes and give you a little more confidence. That's more important to a new rider than speed.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

Ok so I found out that I get some discount for DB and Performance bicycle (don't know much about them, but saw some Fuji's I think)

On the BD site these are some of the bikes with discounted prices.

Overdrive 29er - 2015 - $295
Overdrive ST 27.5 - $360
Hook - $480
Overdrive 29 - $490
Sync’R – 2015 - $675
Sync’R - $880
Mason - $1095


besides Mason, anything you guys would recommend?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Do not buy any overdrives new IMO. Are you dead set on buying new? Are you deadest on ignoring the advice given to you in this thread and others similar to it?


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

I don't want to buy used, as I wouldn't know what to look for and if everything is right with the bike. 

I just listed the one that I saw was available to me to employee pricing. I taking all the things that has been shared into consideration.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

FJSnoozer said:


> ...Are you deadest on ignoring the advice given to you in this thread and others similar to it?


It looks like this particular thread is a pretty even mix of (1) buy new from LBS, (2) buy new online, and (3) buy used. Some solid reasons given for each as well.

That said, I'm not sure if we're necessarily helping someone who is "overwhelmed", by giving all these options.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I see that. That's why we need to isolate the path they are comfortable going down before we should shout any more recommendations.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

I will make it easy and let's stick with buy new online.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

how about this then? It has an XC30 which I used on my 2nd bike a Cannondale and it works way better than any of the crappy Suntour forks. It won't handle massive stuff but it's not what you are planning to do. I think this is better than the DB but that's my personal opinion:

COMMENCAL 2016 | META HT TRAIL ORIGIN 650B YELLOW 2017

Better Fork a bit more but worth it IMO

COMMENCAL 2016 | META HT TRAIL RIDE 650B ORANGE 2017


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Great Recs.

Here is another outside the box for a family ride that you can do anything on.

wiggle.com | Charge Cooker 0 (2016) | Hard Tail MTB Bikes


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

surfer369 said:


> I will make it easy and let's stick with buy new online.


And you're good being the mechanic? Full on assembly and willing to troubleshoot if it's not working right? Easy to do, lots of info on MTBR and some good videos on youtube. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, or have the time for it, sending an online bike to an LBS for assembly quickly destroys any cost savings buying online.

If you're good getting one online, just buy the one you like and ride it. IMO, the Syncr is a great bike to start with. rockshox recon fork (conflicting info on the page, but it is a recon), good drivetrain, fun bike that is truly trail ready. You won't want or need to upgrade anything unless you just want to for fun. If you want to get by with less, the overdrive series are acceptable.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

One more just in case you can find one it should go for a lot less but it would be through a shop. I saw one on CL advertised by a shop for about $700.00. Ok that's my last one so the OP doesn't jump out of his window LOL

http://www.marinbikes.com/us/bikes/description/2017-pine-mountain

(also rigid as the Charge above)


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

so I just came back from REI and was kind of disappointed with how few bikes they had, well I guess its not a fully dedicated bike shop so that's ok.

Anyways the guys was showing their house brand Co-Op and the ghost line that they carry. I am glad I am researching some stuff here and getting the experts advice here, coz if not I wouldn't have known the difference between a skinny tire vs the plus or 27.5 vs the 29er etc.

I do need to a LBS to explore more. I will post another thread about choosing bike racks. I don't even a have a trailer hitch on my SUV, more $$$ to spend...


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## DamnYankee (Feb 21, 2017)

surfer369 said:


> so I just came back from REI and was kind of disappointed with how few bikes they had, well I guess its not a fully dedicated bike shop so that's ok.
> 
> Anyways the guys was showing their house brand Co-Op and the ghost line that they carry. I am glad I am researching some stuff here and getting the experts advice here, coz if not I wouldn't have known the difference between a skinny tire vs the plus or 27.5 vs the 29er etc.
> 
> I do need to a LBS to explore more. I will post another thread about choosing bike racks. I don't even a have a trailer hitch on my SUV, more $$$ to spend...


I was at REI on my lunch break too. I too was shown the Co-op DRT 1.1, I believe. It was $499. Looked pretty nice to my uneducated eyes.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

Yeah, REI is not a "bike store". That said they carry some worthy bikes. 

As for some of those most recent bikes suggested online they are nearly twice the price of the $400 bikes. Sure, they may have a better fork but the rest of the components aren't that much better, if at all. 

Maybe that's worth the extra $300??? Maybe not. Definitely not, if OP won't be riding legitimate trails.

Having said all that, there's not a wrong answer that's been offered up. Whether it be the $400-500 GT/DB etc. bikes or those nicer but also 75% higher priced online bikes. 

Now that the OP has some recommendations with sound reasoning explained i suspect they're not overwhelmed even though they've been given differing advice. Lack of knowledge, not number of options may have been the source for overwhelmed. 

The only way to screw up this decision is to not ride the one you buy. ; )


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

Raleigh is another one of those solid, low price brands. I'm expecting to upgrade to a plus bike myself. If you decide that's the route for you, it's, again, probably not a bad decision.

With these $400, 500 bikes, and maybe even 600 and approaching 700 there's not a massive difference in most any their builds-with most likely distance being nicer fork as was pointed out.

The 2nd from bottom group set isn't significantly better than the bottom group set, and so on. And, largely, that's the kind differences you're looking at with most all these bikes across the board.

Seeing the below list really helped me when buying first mtb. It gives you some understanding how these components qualitatively compare to eachother.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupset#List_of_Groupsets

You might notice that one of those Commencal bikes (yellow?) had some X4 components IIRC. Which is very similar if not the same as some the $400-500 options.

It did have a better fork though. Significantly better? I'm not an expert. Will you notice the difference? I'm not convinced-that's definitely not to say you couldn't??? I truly don't know, and even if you could is the difference worth $300? Maybe? To you? Maybe? Is it worth the 75% more? Maybe? Is 75% significant if it's only $300? Maybe it is to you?

I hope the added info doesn't add confusion, but reduces it by learning what the qualitative differences are and that they're likely not huge differences.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

DamnYankee said:


> I was at REI on my lunch break too. I too was shown the Co-op DRT 1.1, I believe. It was $499. Looked pretty nice to my uneducated eyes.
> 
> 
> DamnYankee said:
> ...


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

This Niner is on sale for $1080.00. A little higher than you wanted, but a Deore build with Rok Shoks Silver fork is a nice package. Plus, they have a good selection of sizes.

Niner EMD 9 1 Star Deore Bike > Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

You should be able to fit whatever bike in your SUV if you remove the wheel. Worry about a rack later, that way, it doesn't eat into your bike budget.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

surfer369 said:


> Just not confuse myself anymore, how would you rank these bikes highest to lowest
> 
> 1. Tokul 3
> 2. DB Mason
> ...


Assuming they are priced the same, which they are not. They are all priced well for what you get. For trail riding, better bang for your buck towards the top stuff. For casual riding, the Coop and Hook are still good bikes.

DB Mason
Tokul3
DB Sync'r
Hook / REI Co-Op


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> You should be able to fit whatever bike in your SUV if you remove the wheel. Worry about a rack later, that way, it doesn't eat into your bike budget.


Good point. I stuffed mine in my Mazda3 until I could get a hitch/rack. For future or when ready etrailer.com is the place for your hitch. No Tax/Free Shipping. They also sell good racks or you can find one use on CL for a good price.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

I know I have been asking too many questions and maybe repeating myself in the process, so please bear with me.

Since the tokul 3 is out of stock and I really don't like the color of the bike, getting picky now.....haha. To my knowledge from the list of bikes that I shortlisted for now, that's the only one which has Plus tires correct?

1. which other bikes in that range come with plus tires?
2. what is the size/width of plus tires vs. regular tires
3. can plus tires be put on bikes that come with regular tires?
4. I have come across tubeless, what is that and how does it benefit?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

You have to have enough clearance in the fork and rear stays for wide tires. And the wheelset rims need to be wide enough.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Have you tried the local bike shops for sales?


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

surfer369 said:


> I know I have been asking too many questions and maybe repeating myself in the process, so please bear with me.
> 
> Since the tokul 3 is out of stock and I really don't like the color of the bike, getting picky now.....haha. To my knowledge from the list of bikes that I shortlisted for now, that's the only one which has Plus tires correct?
> 
> ...


I was going to say that you shouldn't get hung up on getting a plus bike. I still like eb1888's bike recommendation (post #6), but realize that "plus" wasn't even a thing as recently as 24 months ago. Yes, people have been upsizing tires for years, but as an official product line item, it is relatively new. So, I guess I'm saying that "normal" sized tires/setups can absolutely do the job, and "plus" is a different experience.

The other thing, is that we've moved away from your typical use. Plus is nice in that it takes a bit of sting out of a hardtail, and there's a confidence I call the "monster truck effect" (roll over anything), but you may not overly benefit given the "local park with your family" scenario you mentioned in the OP. Know that there's a weight and rolling resistance tradeoff that you may not want on roadways/paths.

Re your questions.

1. I don't care either way, but if you expand your view to "normal" tires, your choices increase drastically. You can also find some pretty beefy "normal" tires that approach plus characteristics.
2. Unsure if this is defined anywhere, but this blog gives a nice quick overview, along with riding differences.
3. If there's clearance, yes. This was how this started before plus-specific platforms were designed.
4. The idea is that without a tube you can run lower pressures than normal, and avoid pinch flats that would ordinarily occur at that pressure with tubes. The lower pressures can improve many ride/grip aspects which is the main draw. There's also a bit of weight to be lost, but not as much as you'd think. You can force tubeless with most tires and rims, but nowadays most rims and tires are "tubeless ready" to ease installation. You would also typically add sealant to help against pinholes. You needn't worry about this now, and can convert your bike later if you desire.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

I was wondering how many posts it would take to get to page 2. Lot more than I expected.

Second just getting a bike and riding it. Plus is nice, but so is 29er, 27.5, and sometimes 26". Just get out and ride.

2.8" seems to be the "magic number" to be considered a plus bike. I've got 2.4" tires on my 29er, and it's got plenty of grip. On another bike, it's actually fun to go back to 2.1" tires at higher pressure and enjoy the "sliding" feeling of less grip.

Plus bike frames will have clearance, but as mentioned, they are a relatively new thing. People could shoe horn 2.8" 27.5 tires in certain 29ers, but not others. At one time I had a "hybrid" bike that only had clearance for 1.9" tires. It was OK, but since then, I've always bought bikes with plenty of chain stay clearance. I currently have a 29er with multiple wheel sets going from a 28mm road tire up to 2.3" trail tires. Not quite as fast as a dedicated road bike, but still goes pretty fast. It's a hell of a lot stronger though and I never worry about it not handling stuff on the road.

tubeless is a huge improvement for mountain bike tires. Try to get a wheel rim that works tubeless, but even if you don't, there are still ways to make tubeless work. Split tube and gorilla tape tubeless.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

watts888 said:


> tubeless is a huge improvement for mountain bike tires. Try to get a wheel rim that works tubeless, but even if you don't, there are still ways to make tubeless work. Split tube and gorilla tape tubeless.


I would absolutely *not* consider tubeless an important aspect for new mtber wanting a beginner bike on a budget.

OP has been talking about $400 to $600 bikes; riding gravel paths; riding occasionally. Tubeless is "above" those riding levels.

It is a completely unnecessary (if nice) feature regardless of what kind of riding one does.

Understand it exists. Otherwise ignore it at this point!


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

I started on a 1991 rigid by Specialized $350, and in 2003 added a Kona hardtail $450 on sale, maybe a $650 list. Both have served well and still rolling good. I'm ready to update soon and thinking I'll go $700 to $1000 for a new hardtail. The only reason I'd spend close to $1000 as you earlier mentioned is if I wanted a good ht that I'd keep in my stable. Otherwise, a good first bike can be had new for 400 to 600 IMO.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

gr7070 said:


> I would absolutely *not* consider tubeless an important aspect for new mtber wanting a beginner bike on a budget.


I still run tubes in probably half my tires, so I can't disagree with this. It's not necessary for the OP's riding description. For technical trails and low tire pressure, Its still a nice upgrade, but not necessary. If not done well, it can actually be a complete pain.

If there are a lot of thorns or you get repetitive tube punctures, a tubeless setup is hands down better than constantly fixing/replacing tubes every ride or trying to use that green slime stuff.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

It doesn't look like you bought a bike yet.. I suggest a bikes direct motobecane 529, not a great bike but decent and a great deal. My son has one. 29er Mountain Bikes Up to 60% Off - MTB - Motobecane 529HT

So what area of the country are you looking.. In some areas of Texas and Florida Bikes Direct has actual stores that have the same prices and put the bikes together for you.


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## surfer369 (Feb 28, 2017)

That Motobecane had a great price, and looks good too, and if you guys recommend it as a started bike, I will get this instead of the other ones we have been talking about. 
Since I will not be taking it out on the trails as much and will be riding on paved trails, I think I can start with this bike and upgrade in a year or two.

I will also check my LBS to check any spring sales in the new few weeks and get a good deals on closeout models etc. If not then I will get the 529h.

Will I need a 19inch, I am 6 feet and 195lbs.

So now, are there any step by step video instruction on how to put the bike together? Will I need a lot of tools?


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

surfer369 said:


> That Motobecane had a great price, and looks good too, and if you guys recommend it as a started bike, I will get this instead of the other ones we have been talking about.
> Since I will not be taking it out on the trails as much and will be riding on paved trails, I think I can start with this bike and upgrade in a year or two.
> 
> I will also check my LBS to check any spring sales in the new few weeks and get a good deals on closeout models etc. If not then I will get the 529h.
> ...


My son is 6'1" and his is a 19" I'm 5'9" and would need a 15.5" I would say if you have long arms and legs for your height definitely 19" if not seeing as you will be riding mostly paved and easy it should be fine, and you can always switch the stem from a 90mm to a 60mm.

assembly How to assemble a bicycle | Road Bike assembly | Mountain bike assembly | bikesdirect.com instruction sheet


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

If you can find one from Performance in your size and price-range, you can have it shipped to the store for free, and they will assemble it and probably give a basic fit for free. If later, you decide there is a problem with the bike, you can probably return it. (Not sure of the specifics, but they have great deals). Just depends if there is a store within reasonable driving distance.

Here are bikes that are less than 500 and size large.

Performance Bike - Bikes Less Than $500 - Category

They have good customer service. Size large is the best bet. I'm 5'7" with long inseam and arms, and use no set-back in the seat. I use a medium. So, there ar a lot of factors.


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## DamnYankee (Feb 21, 2017)

I went to my LBS Saturday and picked up 2 Giant Talon 3's. One for me and one for the wife. They seemed like a good bang for the buck for the type of riding we will be doing both together and separately. I had it out on a local green loop yesterday and it was a blast. The LBS experience was awesome and is the only way I'll go from now on. The service we will be receiving after the sale is well worth the cost over online purchasing.


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## beerfriday (Oct 9, 2014)

surfer369 said:


> I know I have been asking too many questions and maybe repeating myself in the process, so please bear with me.
> 
> Since the tokul 3 is out of stock and I really don't like the color of the bike, getting picky now.....haha. To my knowledge from the list of bikes that I shortlisted for now, that's the only one which has Plus tires correct?
> 
> ...


I have a friend who's been talking a good game about getting into riding and these are the bikes I've flagged for him...

Marin Pine Mountain (should be available at REI?)
http://www.marinbikes.com/us/bikes/description/2017-pine-mountain
Fuse Sport 6Fattie
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/mountain/trail/fuse-sport-6fattie/118358
Charge Cooker
Charge Bikes Cooker Midi 2 Bike > C > Charge | Jenson USA
Framed Marquette
Framed Marquette Alloy SRAM X5 1x9, 27.5+ Boost Bike w/ Alloy and Recon Silver Fork 2017
Mason Trail
Diamondback Bicycles - Bikes - Mountain - All Mountain - Hardtail - Mason Trail

#2 2.8 -3.0 is generally the range of 'plus' versus 2.25-2.5

#3 a 27.5+ can always become a 29'er, but not all 29'ers can become a 27.5+

#4 If you commit to a Plus bike I would highly encourage finding a tire pressure you like and sticking to it. That will require some regular checking of pressure... once you are taking this step tubeless becomes a very reliable and lighter weight way of running your tires. Your likelihood of pinch flatting a tube is non-existent on a tubeless bike with regular pressure checks. There are some 'feel' benefits as well but that's not going to be tangible to you at this stage. ~you'd still want to learn how to change a tube in case you do get a puncture flat on your tire. (most notably, I'd encourage buying a bike with tubeless rims and tires so that you can decide to take advantage of this feature later ~if your bike doesn't come with them then you'd have to buy at least new rims if not tires as well to try it out)


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## beerfriday (Oct 9, 2014)

I should add, I strongly believe a Plus bike is a better bike to learn on... but there are advantages to other wheel sizes and specs as you dive deeper into it. 

As someone else said, biggest thing is dive in sooner rather than later and get riding. 

A new better PC comes out every week/month.


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## gr7070 (Apr 21, 2015)

surfer369 said:


> That Motobecane had a great price, and looks good too, and if you guys recommend it as a started bike, I will get this instead of the other ones we have been talking about.
> Since I will not be taking it out on the trails as much and will be riding on paved trails, I think I can start with this bike and upgrade in a year or two.
> 
> I will also check my LBS to check any spring sales in the new few weeks and get a good deals on closeout models etc. If not then I will get the 529h.
> ...


Yes, that link in the previous post to yours for the 529HT is a solid looking spec for a sub-$500 bike. It's similar to the Performance Bike options.

BTW that bike is perfectly suitable for the low-intermediate level mtb trails that I've been on. You should not need an upgrade for any reason and could ride it for quite some time, just proper maintenance.

In short it's a legit mtb, just an inexpensive one.

One responder in this thread has been riding inexpensive mtb for decade or more, IIRC. I'm on mine for a couple years and I'm 230 pounds, though not real aggressive.

Enjoy!


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

I've bought most my bikes from bikesdirect, and it all goes back to the point of how comfortable you are working on a bike. Some people have had absolutely horrible experience, but they are not willing to take the time to learn to properly adjust everything. You can get by, but when properly adjusted, they are pretty good.

The 529 is nice, but they also offer a motobecane 429 that's almost identical, but with lower quality brakes and a non-hydraulic fork. It's also $100 cheaper. I'd rather spend that $100 on aftermarket parts. I will say, a lot of the online bikes posted earlier are comparable, and somewhat better than what bikesdirect has been putting out lately for their intro level bikes. Bikesdirect is good, but Jenson and Nashbar stepped up their intro trail bike game.


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## sleepyguy1001 (May 26, 2014)

My first real mountain bike was a Motobecane and I've no complaints at all. I wound up beating it up pretty good and decided that while I suck at it, I wanted to get into mountain biking more and bought a higher end bike.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

jcd46 said:


> In order not to do the nasty thing of going into an bike shop and trying a helmet then buying on-line - I went to Walmart........


My quoter doesn't work right. This is good advice for helmets whether you do buy there or online. Mine is a Bell purchased at a big box store. It's been mentioned that most helmets meet requirements and I'm sure that's correct. What are these requirements? I don't have a feeking clue. But a helmet is a must.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

> I've bought most my bikes from bikesdirect, and it all goes back to the point of how comfortable you are working on a bike.


OP found a forum where this isn't as much a consideration. 
Working on bikes in and of itself can become addictive. It's part of the overall 'disease' called Mt. biking.


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