# Do you think there is a place for plus size tyres in DH?



## Patu (Jun 23, 2016)

More and more plus size bikes are hitting the scenes, not to mention that Maxxis have just released a Minion DHF and DHR2 27.5x2.8.

There are also many 'inexaustive' tests on 27.5 vs 27.5+ vs 29er and usually the conclusion is that 29er and 27.5+ roll better and faster and with less resistance although questions are raised over weight & control..

see GMBN's tests e.g. on 27.5 vs 27.5+ and 27.5+ vs 29er which indicate that 27.5+ may in fact be the leader in this field when measuring sheer speed..

There aren't many DH specific tyres out there in plus size but has Maxxis started the trend with the new Minion?

Whats your opinion?

This is my Demo8 fitted with 27.5x2.8 Nobby Nic Apex which have a strengthened sidewall and are under 1kg. Maybe they won't stand the test nor have the grip for DH but I take it freeriding and it's a lot of fun..

I'm keen to try the Minion 2.8..


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Maxxis tires always run small. 

"Plus size" existed in DH before it was cool. 

Gazzalodi's will make a comeback! 

As will 26" wheels. With plus size tires we'll have "the strength of a 26" wheel, with the rolling diameter of a 27.5" as per The Industry™. 

The new Gazzalodi will be named "Twenty-seven HIGH5, by Three-point-ohhh"

What's old will be new again.


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## Xaero (Mar 18, 2006)

I rode and liked 2.7 tires from Maxxis before.
I didn't even know they were gone.

BikeRader did a video riding eMTBs to mt snowdon and their Maxxis plus tires keep getting punctures on the rough stuff.

I don't think you can get away with fat tires on non DH casings for downhill or rocky sections with speed.

Light plus tires will probably be too weak for DH. They'll probably work on groomed bikepark stuff.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I used to run Intense 2.7s and Michelin 2.8s. Thought they were awesome at the time. Then I tried a proper 2.5" tire with proper pressure (i.e. -- more than 14 psi) and I stopped bouncing all over the place and actually rode my bike fast.

I remain skeptical about "+" tires.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I have personal preferences as to different classes for 26" , 27.5 and 29 for racing so there's no wheel size disadvantage ..Wide size tires? Don't care. Different conditions determine tire selection


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

A wider contact patch is great. Get more square inches on the dirt per bike+rider lb, and you've got more traction, more control, can carry higher speeds, brake harder and later, and corner harder and exit faster. Assuming things don't get all squirmy on you. 

However, I think the super high volume tires run at low pressure are silly at high speeds. You have a soft, linear, undamped air spring between the ground and each wheel, responding to dynamic terrain inputs faster than the (well-controlled) suspension possibly can.

For all its other faults, Procore is really onto something by making the tire act as a more progressive spring by reducing the (low pressure) volume. Stout sidewalls + low tire pressure + progressive air spring can get you a lot of traction without feeling like you're on squirmy plus-size noodle tires. If only wheels didn't keep exploding.

I'm extremely skeptical of anything 2.8" and up, but I could see true 2.6" and 2.7" not-really-plus DH tires being the norm.


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## Patu (Jun 23, 2016)

:thumbsup:

Great response!


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Early 2000's someone had 3" mud tires. Can't remember the manufacturer though


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I had michelin 2.8s. Fantastic sticky tire, but slower than a 2.5 minion due to the rotational mass. Buddy ran Gazzi 3.0s at the time. Same issue. He could run them with stupid low pressure, but at the end of the day they were quite slow, like any + sized tire that I've tried or used.

I have a fatbike with very "+" sized tires, but the point is the extra mass and diameter slows you down, creates more gyroscopic force, makes you slow more for turns, etc. You may not notice it much unless racing skinnier/lighter tire bikes, but this has been my experience. Just leaving the maxxis 2.5 DH tires on my 29er made a huge difference that I could tell, as opposed to my trail 2.3 tires. IME, there is a fairly optimal tire size for downhill, if a really big tire is necessary, it's likely the speed isn't all that fast anyway.

Generally, DH racers have went down in tire size, from 2.7 or so to 2.3-2.5, not bigger.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

2.5" DH Magic Mary's I run are pretty darn plump already. My gut says you'd be seeing diminishing returns beyond that.

Also, while they seemed a fair amount bigger than the 2.5" Maxxis I ran, can't say they feel much better.


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

Intense used to make a 3.0, and Sun used to make a "double wide" rim that was something like 2" wide. I had a set of these but they're only good for a tank...

Too much tire becomes a negative as it increases drag. Yes it will increase traction, but as with everything, there is a balance... too much tire = too much drag, too skinny of a tire = no traction. Somewhere in the 2.3-2.7 range is where we have settled is the sweet spot for traction vs drag.

I'm all about experimenting, but I doubt a 3.0 or larger tire will make it's way, effectively, into the DH scene. More of a niche market for specific riding types and styles.


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## Patu (Jun 23, 2016)

See below...


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2017)

Patu said:


> I'm trying running the 2.8 NN Apex at 32psi to see if that proves to improve things. Bear in mind that the NN 2.8 is actually more like a 2.6.


internal rim width will effect sizing. my NN's on i35 rims are 68mm knob-knob.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I had a double wide once on my old 2000 straight 8. It did a good job!


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

I think you could get away with riding a 2.8 in the front and a 2.5-2.6 in the rear.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Miker J said:


> 2.5" DH Magic Mary's I run are pretty darn plump already. My gut says you'd be seeing diminishing returns beyond that.
> 
> Also, while they seemed a fair amount bigger than the 2.5" Maxxis I ran, can't say they feel much better.


I have a Vredstien 2.4 that I run up front that people are always asking me if it's "+", funny, edge to edge it measures slightly smaller than my Hans Dampf, but the casing looks huge.


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## Nsynk (Sep 30, 2008)

I have a feeling that if the rumoured move to 29er wheels in DH proves to be a winning success all other wheels sizes will die out .
People said 26 would stay for DH but it's almost impossible to buy a 26 DH bike now .
27.5 could die as quickly as 26 did if the results prove 29er is faster . Apart from riding on snow / sand which requires a fat bike , why would anyone need a 27.5 plus bike over a 29er x 2.8 ? It would make commercial sense for the manufacturers to streamline production to only one size . However choice does create sales and people like to feel they've made a choice .


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2017)

^^ not gonna happen.....variety is the key and manuf know this.......wagon wheels for DH?? not buyin that either.


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## Patu (Jun 23, 2016)

Well here it is...my Demo8 with 2.8 Minions.. Running 18/20PSi

Personally love it...

...also...interestingly Schwalbe have just announced their new DH specific Addix ultrasoft 2.6 Magic Mary...I'd say...it's coming...

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/magic-mary.html


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## surfinsmiley (May 20, 2006)

nvphatty said:


> ^^ not gonna happen.....variety is the key and manuf know this.......wagon wheels for DH?? not buyin that either.


And then what do you know...

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/news/syndicate-29-inch-v10


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

it's nice to have the traction, but for rolling and quick turning it has no use...but for messing around - sure


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Patu said:


> Well here it is...my Demo8 with 2.8 Minions.. Running 18/20PSi
> 
> Personally love it...
> 
> ...


tech tip : put the white minion writing next to the air valve....so you find it faster


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

cookieMonster said:


> I used to run Intense 2.7s and Michelin 2.8s. Thought they were awesome at the time. Then I tried a proper 2.5" tire with proper pressure (i.e. -- more than 14 psi) and I stopped bouncing all over the place and actually rode my bike fast.
> 
> I remain skeptical about "+" tires.


Yup. We went through the plus size fad already in the late 90s to early 2000s. They were heavy, slow, and sucked. Modern plus tires are lighter & faster but they get trashed really quickly if you actually ride them hard. There's a reason that DH tires have settled in around the 2.5" size, it's the best trade-off of weight, speed, durability, and traction for riding down a mountain at tunnel vision speeds.


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