# Forum improvements - feedback?



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Hey all, fc here and back from my travels. A lot of old school Mtbr folks have been contacting me and expressed concern that so many threads are being moved out of Passion.

I chatted with Klurejr and he said this place was being converted to 'riding experiences only'. I'm not sure this is is the finest idea I've heard since Passion is about riding experiences, lifestyle and people getting to know each other. It's the soul of mtbr since it's our first forum.

Anyway... it's under discussion.

Any feedback/input? Good news is nothing is set in stone. We want to make mtbr forums better organized but don't want to kill it or over-police either. Key thing is we want to grow it.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Klurejr specializes in overmoderation. This is just the most recent expression of it.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

IMO, among those that have recently been moved, the follow should be in Passion:

Animal encounters
Stairs
Bike and trail marker pics
Ridiculous story
Head badges


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.

IMHumbleO, I think beginner's corner should be at the very top.

Some of the picture threads that were moved to Gen should be back in Passion. "Latest purchase" thread was there for ever.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Passion*

: intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction

The Passion Thread to me, reflects the passion that one encounters and reflects within and throughout this thread. It is greater than an interest, it is all encompassing and comes with a zeal-like infatuation.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

jcd46 said:


> The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.
> 
> IMHumbleO, I think beginner's corner should be at the very top.
> 
> Some of the picture threads that were moved to Gen should be back in Passion. "Latest purchase" thread was there for ever.


i respectfully second this opinion.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Lone Rager said:


> IMO, among those that have recently been moved, the follow should be in Passion:
> 
> Animal encounters
> Stairs
> ...


 love it!

Lifestyle. Beer!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

jcd46 said:


> The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.
> 
> IMHumbleO, I think beginner's corner should be at the very top.
> 
> Some of the picture threads that were moved to Gen should be back in Passion. "Latest purchase" thread was there for ever.


Agree!!! Passion should not be on top. Alphabetical should suffice.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I almost always hit "new posts" but for someone who visits specific forums looking for threads, doesn't make sense to move threads that have lived in passion for years.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> Hey all, fc here and back from my travels. A lot of old school Mtbr folks have been contacting me and expressed concern that so many threads are being moved out of Passion.
> 
> I chatted with Klurejr and he said this place was being converted to 'riding experiences only'. I'm not sure this is is the finest idea I've heard since Passion is about riding experiences, lifestyle and people getting to know each other. It's the soul of mtbr since it's our first forum.
> 
> ...


Frankly, a lot of it is your fault. You've let areas on this forum become dumping grounds for years. If the point of having a bazillion forums is to organize discussions, then organize them for crying out loud. If you're not going to organize them, then get rid of the chaff. The way you've run this place for a long time creates a lot of confusion in this regard. The NorCal forum is a perfect example. THE VAST MAJORITY of the content there belongs elsewhere, as it has absolutely nothing to do with NorCal.

If you want to be honest, Passion was "converted" to a riding experiences forum many years ago. Look at the description of the forum, which has been the same for as long as I can remember. Maybe it's been that way since this particular forum software has been installed - my join date should give you an idea how long that's been. It says, "Share riding experiences" which makes it pretty clear what the forum is "supposed" to be about. Because it's been at the top for that long, it HAS been a dumping ground for all kinds of crap, too. Not quite as bad as NorCal, but bad enough. I may not agree with all of the moves that Klurejr has made, but most of them I do.

Another part of the problem is related to the moderation in general. It's not consistent. A lot of the mods don't even log in very often. I can't tell you how many times I've reported threads that OBVIOUSLY don't belong in Passion, as they had nothing to do with bikes. Like carbon fiber knives. Or threads that are bike-related, but obviously belong elsewhere on the site. Bitching about bike shops, for example. When it comes down to it, I am the reason that Klurejr took an interest in the Passion forum in the first place. I felt like the moderators were ignoring the place, and ignoring my legitimate reports. The mods "in charge" of the forum need to be reexamined. Gregg hasn't been here in a year and a half. crisillo and MTBAlabama don't show up all that often. BikinBric is around more, and appears to have been the one ignoring my reports. I started causing a little trouble, and FINALLY got someone's (Klurejr's) attention.

I do feel like picture threads are entirely appropriate for Passion. "Riding experiences" doesn't have to mean ride reports as long stories ONLY. That would be a sure way for the Passion forum to die. But I do feel like mtbr as a whole is an ungainly mess and that is a major contributor.

1. There are too many damn forums that split discussions. The place needs to be pared down into a more logical arrangement with less overlap.
2. If there's going to be ANY kind of organization at all, then moderators need to be able to put things where they belong. This means that the forums need clear direction as to what belongs there. If you're not going to establish that clear direction, then you might as well just have only one forum and throw everything in it.
3. This place is busy enough that requests for moderation need to not be held up because of moderators (or admins) who aren't here all the time, or who are on vacation, or out for a ride, or whatever. But it seems like when a moderation report goes out, it is most likely going to receive a very limited audience.
4. Moderation needs to be more consistent. Why in the hell is NorCal your little litter box that gets to be a dumping ground for content that belongs elsewhere in the forum? Moderation policies that apply EVERYWHERE else on the forum don't apply there. Why is that?


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

#LeaveNorCalAlone.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> #LeaveNorCalAlone.


Everyone should just post all the **** in norcal.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Lone Rager said:


> IMO, among those that have recently been moved, the follow should be in Passion:
> 
> Animal encounters
> Stairs
> ...


Two of those are mine. Stairs and rediculous story.

I'm not too fussed if its moved. But out of courtesy the mod should contact the op and inform them of the move and reasons why.

Its slightly rude to move stuff without consultation.

Also each sub forum has different members viewing. You may want he opinuion of those in that particular sub forum. By moving to a different subforum then the original intention/audiance may be lost.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Lone Rager said:


> IMO, among those that have recently been moved, the follow should be in Passion:
> 
> Animal encounters
> Stairs
> ...


Totally agree here.



jcd46 said:


> The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.
> 
> IMHumbleO, I think beginner's corner should be at the very top.
> 
> Some of the picture threads that were moved to Gen should be back in Passion. "Latest purchase" thread was there for ever.


And here.



fc said:


> Agree!!! Passion should not be on top. Alphabetical should suffice.


I pushed for this on several occasions over the years and was ignored.



alexbn921 said:


> #LeaveNorCalAlone.


I agree with this as well. Nothing wrong with having their own little OC over there. If you don't like it don't go there.

As far as Passion: The threads above that Lone Ranger mentioned should be moved back to Passion. Also the thread "Post a photo of your recent purchase, bike related only" that thread was started in 2011 by none other than CHUM a super moderator for years. He placed it in Passion, it lived active in Passion for 7 years. Active almost daily for that length of time. In fact one of the most if not the most active threads in there all these years. In one swipe it went to General Discussion after 7 years, really? It will live it's remaining short life. We all know that any thread started or moved to General is doomed a short exisistance. A short attention span of an the audience there. Nothing against that forum, it's just the nature of the beast.

The Passion forum in my opinion should not only be to share ride experiences but also to share passions that exist within a ride. Such as animals and nature. Sharing and getting to know one another in all forums. As long as it has to do with passions with riding it should be allowed in Passion. Granted, many threads shouldn't be there but going on a thread moving binge in my opinion is a very childish action to take. Move the good ones back to Passion and back off on power tripping childish behavior. All you're doing is pushing old members away from the site and disenchanting new ones. Who wants to frequent a site where one is treated like a child with everything you post? Not many.

In other words, got a question about a thread in a forum, let it ride. Isn't that what we are here for? Sharing our passions, forming friendships and riding.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.
> 
> IMHumbleO, I think beginner's corner should be at the very top.
> 
> Some of the picture threads that were moved to Gen should be back in Passion. "Latest purchase" thread was there for ever.


This, passion is at the top, so thats where people just start stuff up. I think a lot of people don't realise because it's not labeled wheels/drivertain/aframes/"manufacturer" and it named something odd (passion doesn't usually get a forum on ye oldie forums) then it must be just general for anything.

Put beginner first, then general, then off camber...then everything else. And get rid of a BUNCH of forums, there are so many half the people have no idea where to post.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Even "riding experience" threads like the bikes with bridges and trail marker threads have been moved. Latest purchase may not be a riding experience, but sharing your joy and cool stuff is definitely part of the passion for this hobby-as this IS a very gear-intensive hobby, and a lot of us are passionate about our bikes, too, not just the act of riding them.
There's some stupid "LBS annoying me" thread at the top as I post this. Rationalize that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

OwenM said:


> There's some stupid "LBS annoying me" thread at the top as I post this. Rationalize that.


No ****.

The fact is that fc has set the tone in these forums (since the beginning) that led to this situation. That tone is inconsistency.

Sure, Passion may have once been the original forum that amounted to a "General" or catch-all discussion where people talked about everything and organized rides and all. But it hasn't been that for YEARS. The proliferation of a multitude of subforums left nothing but trip reports and picture threads as relevant. And even then, people post those all over the place.

I vote to split up the "Classic Mountain Bike Forums" grouping. At the top, the grouping should be something like simple discussions and should include Beginners Corner and General at the top, followed by an alphabetical list of others including Passion, General, Bikepacking, Classifieds, the riding style forums, 50+, OC, Photography, Rider Down, Trailbuilding, Women's Lounge, etc. There should be a second grouping that should be exclusively the technical/gear forums. This is where the majority of grouping should happen. Get rid of the wheel size forums and put ALL of those discussions into their relevant categories. This is where the primary mess/confusion exists. Why on earth do we have a 29er components board and a components board? Doesn't make any damn sense.

The regional forums and the brand forums mostly make sense. They SHOULD be maintained as pretty focused discussions, though. REGIONAL discussions only. Trail conditions, local group rides, local events, local equipment preferences, etc. Other content should be moved. Bike brand specific discussions only. Other content should be moved.


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## Rock (Jan 13, 2004)

In my opinion, if a thread is in the top 5-10 most recent commented in a particular forum, it should stay there were the OP put it. Let nature take it's course. If, after it drops lower, AND it may be more appreciated in another forum, then move it. Passion and General Discussion are natural catch alls. Don't over think it. Just keep the Korean spam cleaned up in a timely manner.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Rock said:


> In my opinion, if a thread is in the top 5-10 most recent commented in a particular forum, it should stay there ....


Disagree. It may a be a great post and get a lot of comments, but it's still in the wrong forum and would likely do better, have more staying power, and be more useful to others in the long run if it were in the correct forum.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rock said:


> In my opinion, if a thread is in the top 5-10 most recent commented in a particular forum, it should stay there were the OP put it. Let nature take it's course. If, after it drops lower, AND it may be more appreciated in another forum, then move it. Passion and General Discussion are natural catch alls. Don't over think it. Just keep the Korean spam cleaned up in a timely manner.


Bingo! Give that man a stuffed animal. :thumbsup:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Rock said:


> In my opinion, if a thread is in the top 5-10 most recent commented in a particular forum, it should stay there were the OP put it. Let nature take it's course. If, after it drops lower, AND it may be more appreciated in another forum, then move it. Passion and General Discussion are natural catch alls. Don't over think it. Just keep the Korean spam cleaned up in a timely manner.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Bingo! Give that man a stuffed animal. :thumbsup:


Nope. Just because it's being responded to doesn't mean it belongs there. Might as well just merge ALL the forums together and say f*ck it at that point. If these suggestions get adopted, we might as well just ignore forum headings/descriptions altogether. Post 29er topics in the 26er forum. Post apparel questions in tooltime. Post trip reports in suspension. Post Norcal drivel in the Europe forum. Where does it stop?

If you're going to create subforums for specific threads, then moderators need to move threads to the appropriate locations. There's really no middle ground.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Comes down to control freaks basically. If a thread doesn't belong in a certain forum folks won’t reply to it. Guess where it ends up pretty quick? Two pages back. If it’s a worthy thread and people enjoy it then they reply. That's what this site should be all about, entertainment and enjoyment. Controlling what others post is, well I don’t want to get political but I think you know what I’m referring to.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Comes down to control freaks basically. If a thread doesn't belong in a certain forum folks won't reply to it. Guess where it ends up pretty quick? Two pages back. If it's a worthy thread and people enjoy it then they reply. That's what this site should be all about, entertainment and enjoyment. Controlling what others post is, well I don't want to get political but I think you know what I'm referring to.


No, that isn't how it works.

Create a structure for the website, then mods need to ensure that structure is maintained. Currently, it is a confusing mess for new users, who often don't know where to post stuff. But there is still a structure to it.

Your suggestion is to create an anarchic free for all. That works fine for small forums, but it became untenable here a long time ago because content would be on page 2 within 10 min of posting and on page 5 by the end of the day.

This is reinforced by the fact that searching this website sucks ass. Content that is misplaced is likely to never be found by someone attempting to search. If it goes into the correct subforum, it at least increases the chances of it being found. Also because the site is so huge, many people (including myself) are unlikely to see a topic we might be able to answer well, because it doesn't get put into the correct forum. In my case, for example, I am unlikely to answer a gps question placed in the norcal forum because I rarely ever go there.

I will say this - if this place swirls the shitter and is allowed to become what dj wants, I am gone. I am increasingly frustrated with how site leadership runs the place (above the mods mostly).

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold, I’m not here to argue about it. Many have left because of so much policing. In fact I had a couple long time respectable ride contributing members contact me after this recent Passion thread moving, they left the site, fed up of being policed. Threads that members obviously enjoyed for many YEARS were suddenly moved. If a thread doesn’t appeal simply click another one. The ones worthy of being there will survive and the ones that aren’t will soon be out of sight. There’s enough for all to find the ones they enjoy. There’s a lot more to the term Passion that pertains to riding than actual ride reports.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

For me, Mtbr is losing it’s relevancy. Over moderation and 100 separate forums don’t seem to help. I still occasionally check in, but have other places to go and things to do. This is life. Ever changing. Best of luck figuring it out!


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## Bikin' Bric (Sep 7, 2003)

Harold said:


> The mods "in charge" of the forum need to be reexamined. Gregg hasn't been here in a year and a half. crisillo and MTBAlabama don't show up all that often. BikinBric is around more, and appears to have been the one ignoring my reports. I started causing a little trouble, and FINALLY got someone's (Klurejr's) attention.


You're right, I have. Probably has to do with the fact that I get inundated with reports everyday of increasingly nettlesome people going out of their way to be assholes, as well as people who hit the report button simply because they do not agree with someone's point of view. Mopping up the crap around here for free is not on my list of daily priorities and as of late my interest in this forum and the people on it has worn very thin.

So, I'm done... since you're on here so often Harold, I invite you to apply for my position, let's see how long it takes for you before you divert all forum reports to your junk mail. I quit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

With a better organized website, the mods wouldn't need to be involved as much. The disorganization and inconsistency that fc has allowed for too long creates this problem.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

Harold said:


> With a better organized website, the mods wouldn't need to be involved as much. The disorganization and inconsistency that fc has allowed for too long creates this problem.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


You mean the world according to Harold?

You've got a lot of whines and complaints in your several posts in this thread. It certainly seems like you know how to do it better and more successfully than the very long history of this forum/site has done so far, so rather than trying to impose your vision of mtbr on, well, everyone else here, why don't you go start your own mountain biking forum site and run it the way you feel one should be run?

Remember, this is a free service to you. Sure, they're marketing us and making money off members, but if this site isn't to your tastes (and by your description, its failing, sucks, not the way you want it or would do it, etc etc), you can always find another. Most of us just deal with it and ignore the crap that doesn't belong in the forum in which it's posted rather than make everyone else conform to the way we each, individually, want things to be. My join date is the same as yours; but that's because of the reset back then; I've been around here longer than that and other than some "head scratchers", haven't had any issue with the way Francis has run this site. Before or after the sale.

Your indictment of the moderators has some validity; those that haven't been around in a while should be replaced. But your attack on them for "not doing their jobs" is way off base and unfair. As far as I know, the mods here are unpaid volunteers and do what they can in their spare time. I'd say that since you appear to have so much time on your hands to decide how this place should be run, you should volunteer to be a mod, but I suspect your approach wouldn't make the general population here happy.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Lot's of passion regarding Passion. I haven't been around as long as some of you, but I do waste lots of time here. Personally, I don't much mind the messiness or lack of rigid organization. Some forums can't be nailed down, especially one as subjective and amorphous as Passion. It's a judgement call by the mods and admins - hopefully informed by the preferences of the user community. Which is what this thread is about, right? *A lot of threads are being moved - feedback?

*I do think that moving Passion off the top would help keep it from being a catch-all, which is really what General Discussion is supposed to be, yes? Why not put that ahead of Passion? Then followed by my favorite threads.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

Harold said:


> Get rid of the wheel size forums and put ALL of those discussions into their relevant categories. This is where the primary mess/confusion exists. Why on earth do we have a 29er components board and a components board? Doesn't make any damn sense.


This.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Gasp4Air said:


> I do think that moving Passion off the top would help keep it from being a catch-all, which is really what General Discussion is supposed to be, yes? Why not put that ahead of Passion? Then followed by my favorite threads.


General should be at the top for sure!

It's way down past where most newbs stop searching for a suitable forum to post in.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Working on a forum consolidation plan now with Harold and others. More organization, less policing, more posts, stoked moderators is the goal.


fc


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

fc said:


> Working on a forum consolidation plan now with Harold and others. More organization, less policing, more posts, stoked moderators is the goal.
> 
> fc


Ya, that's good. Harold seems to have plenty of passion! 

P.S. I've always respected Harold's opinions and judgement. Not suckin' up, just stating it as it is.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

And move the e-bike forum to the trash where it belongs! Yeah I know they're not going away but this is a MTB site not a motorized bicycle site.



jcd46 said:


> The problem is Passion is at the very top, so it ends up with a bunch of bs threads.


Over the years I've started a couple threads suggesting Passion be moved down or re-named the General forum to eliminate all the crap that gets posted here, but those threads got moved :madman:

Agree there are way too many subforums though - consolidate all the different wheel size subforums, consolidate most of the different bike subforums, consolidate the different wheel and tire forums. Keep separate some that are too different or specialized like gravel grinding, bikepacking, fat biking and a separate category for each major type of components - suspension, brakes, drivetrain.

Having a lot of general discussion in forums like Norcal doesn't bother me as much. That's their local subforum and part of that community is being able to discuss whatever they want with people they know. Maybe they don't want riders from Kansas or wherever butting in their conversation about dropper posts.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

evdog said:


> Having a lot of general discussion in forums like Norcal doesn't bother me as much. That's their local subforum and part of that community is being able to discuss whatever they want with people they know. Maybe they don't want riders from Kansas or wherever butting in their conversation about dropper posts.


Sure, if it actually just pertains to Norcal. But then you get fc creating a thread in Norcal "*Be careful of deer* and then going and starting the same thread somewhere else. Was he really interested in just creating a conversation of his Norcal buddies without "riders from Kansas or wherever butting in"? And then also wanted to warn people outside of Norcal in a separate thread? Seems like purposely creating a mess and this isn't too uncommon. It is then a pain when you search "new posts" and have to try to then figure out which thread is the one you participated in.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

While we're at it, the 29er Components forums is pretty worthless. Virtually everything posted there is not 29er specific, and there aren't many things that are. Wheels/Tires and Forks belong in those forums.

Maybe a few other inconsistencies:

We have XC Racing and Training, Enduro racing, All Mountain, and a few others.

IMO,
Training, Fitness, Nutrition and Hydration could be one forum as these apply to all riding disciplines.

Discipline categories should be: XC, Trail, Enduro/All mountain, DH/Freeride, CX, Bike packing/Touring, (maybe Gravel)...


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Harold, I agree that there is a problem with reported posts being ignored and mods not around when needed. I have reported maybe 2 posts, ever. One was a guy captioning this pic, "fish taco, anyone?"









It happened while some of the women here were complaining about sexism. Reporting it went totally ignored, and the classy post is still there. I wonder why they are turned off by this place. I volunteered to help with Korean spam, since zero mods seem to be around when it is at its worst, in the morning. Klurejr told me to contact fc, since they always needed help. PM to fc went totally ignored. Zero response. Not even a "thanks, but no thanks." Probably for the best. FWIW, klurejr has always responded and been helpful.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

slowpoker said:


> FWIW, klurejr has always responded and been helpful.


Really? I sent him a nice polite PM recently regarding the threads being moved out of Passion. Instead of responding to my PM minutes later he moved 5 other threads out of Passion. One being mine just out of spite. Not a very impartial attitude a mod is supposed to have. I never did get a pm back from him and it's been a week.


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

I come to Passion for passion about stuff that happened during rides and positivity, not the vague "culture" dumping ground that makes sense for General.

I felt these fit here: Animal encounters, Ridiculous story
I didn't read these, but if they are passion about stuff that happened during a ride, then I feel they would fit here: Stairs, Head badges


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Never really understood this Passion forum. Riding experiences? Hell after you’ve ridden for so long is there really that many “new” experiences? And for me, if there was, they’d be told post ride at the pub with your riding friends or in their shop or something. Then boom, it’s over... next.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Really? I sent him a nice polite PM recently regarding the threads being moved out of Passion. Instead of responding to my PM minutes later he moved 5 other threads out of Passion. One being mine just out of spite. Not a very impartial attitude a mod is supposed to have. I never did get a pm back from him and it's been a week.


I've had a few experiences with him and hes always been very polite and helpful. Granted, every dog has its day, for sure.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

R_Pierce said:


> I've had a few experiences with him and hes always been very polite and helpful. Granted, every dog has its day, for sure.


This, all of my interactions with kjr have been pleasant and civil.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

life behind bars said:


> This, all of my interactions with kjr have been pleasant and civil.


Same for me. But let's face it, you can't please all the riders all of the time.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I think it's the chemtrails causing mods to freak out and move threads.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

I use to participate semi-regularly on this forum. But I haven't participated much in the past couple of years. This is the reason why...

Passion(73 Viewing)
Share riding experiences.

26(28 Viewing)
26" wheel size

27.5(97 Viewing)
27.5" wheel size

29er Bikes(256 Viewing)
29er specific discussion

29er Components(80 Viewing)
29er Wheels, Tires, Forks, etc.

26+/27.5+/29+ Plus Bikes(146 Viewing)
Plus size wheels - 2.8" to 3.2"

All Mountain(147 Viewing)
More than XC, less than FR/DH.

Apparel and Protection(73 Viewing)
Beer Forum(8 Viewing)
Beginner's Corner(208 Viewing)
Bike and Frame discussion(67 Viewing)
Bikepacking and Bike Expedition(42 Viewing)
Brake Time(181 Viewing)
Cars and Bike Racks(130 Viewing)
Cargo Bikes(8 Viewing)
Classifieds(7 Viewing)
Clydesdales/Tall Riders(39 Viewing)
Commuting(29 Viewing)
Components(76 Viewing)
Cyclocross(29 Viewing)
Downhill - Freeride(110 Viewing)
Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks(279 Viewing)
E-Bikes(26 Viewing)
Endurance XC Racing(26 Viewing)
Enduro Racing(9 Viewing)
Families and Riding with Kids(70 Viewing)
Fat bikes(323 Viewing)
Fifty+ Years Old(15 Viewing)
Folding and Travel Bikes
Frame Building(36 Viewing)
General Discussion(322 Viewing)
GPS, HRM and Bike Computer(17 Viewing)

Gravel Bikes(26 Viewing)
Gravel bike and Gravel Riding

Internal Gear Hubs(16 Viewing)
Lights and Night Riding(55 Viewing)
Sponsored by Action LED Lights and Lupine

Lights DIY - Do It Yourself(25 Viewing)
Sponsored by Lupine

Nutrition and Hydration(14 Viewing)
Off Camber (off topic)(42 Viewing)
Photography for mountain bikers(4 Viewing)
discuss techniques, gear, tips & more

Rider Down, injuries and recovery(64 Viewing)
Shocks and Suspension(348 Viewing)
Sponsored by Fluid Focus

Singlespeed(89 Viewing)
Tandem Mountain Bikes(7 Viewing)
Tooltime(64 Viewing)
Trail Building and Advocacy(48 Viewing)
Sponsored by: IMBA

Urban/DJ/Park(35 Viewing)
Vacations & Destinations(7 Viewing)
biking trips, tours, and travel related biking

Videos and POV Cameras(8 Viewing)
Vintage, Retro, Classic(116 Viewing)
Classic bikes and bike restoration forum

Weight Weenies(43 Viewing)

Wheels and Tires(382 Viewing)

Where are the Best Deals?(37 Viewing)
Women's Lounge(11 Viewing)
XC Racing and Training(74 Viewing)

I hope you understand. Think back to the original days of EmptyBeer and think something between that and this.

BTW, this Pyscho Penguin Vanilla Porter is pretty good.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jl said:


> I use to participate semi-regularly on this forum. But I haven't participated much in the past couple of years. This is the reason why...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


It seems like management might actually be taking site organization a bit more seriously, after years of users voicing the need for it. We'll see if it actually happens smartly. Frankly, I think with more common-sense organization, users will self-moderate how DJ wants them to (mostly by just putting threads in the forums that make sense) and moderators won't need to be so involved.

What I want most, though, are spam controls that actually work. When this forum gets hit, it isn't just one random spammer who comes in as a person. It gets hit by bots that then flood the system in just a few minutes. Cutting THOSE out will go a long way towards reducing the workload on the mods, and fewer will get fed up because of the flood of reports. Relying on mods to deal with it AFTER it's already a problem is a surefire way to burn them out. Gotta hit that stuff on the front end.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Anybody see a problem here? All these threads were moved in the last week. ut: Check out the start dates on some. Obviously active threads if they were on the front page currently then deleted.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Really? I sent him a nice polite PM recently regarding the threads being moved out of Passion. Instead of responding to my PM minutes later he moved 5 other threads out of Passion. One being mine just out of spite. Not a very impartial attitude a mod is supposed to have. I never did get a pm back from him and it's been a week.


Sorry DJ,
I have a 6 week old baby at home and am not getting much sleep these days. Work has been extra busy and I have very little free time to come on mtbr and moderate at the moment.

I stand by my moves from the passion forum to more appropriate places if the passion forum is to be specifically about riding experiences. This enforcement is something I discussed with the new Ownership, in fact they plan to change the name from "passion" to "riding experiences" once the site is moved to their servers.

I do like a number of suggestions posted here and hope to see them as part of the new forum plan, namely:

Taking passion of the top of the list
Putting beginners corner and general at the top of the list
Streamlining the sections (this is something myself and a number of mods have been pushing for over the years, we drafted an early plan for this and consolidation)

Good feedback everyone.

Also, I have yet to see anyone explain why a thread should be in passion just because someone puts the word passion in the title.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> Sorry DJ,
> I have a 6 week old baby at home and am not getting much sleep these days. Work has been extra busy and I have very little free time to come on mtbr and moderate at the moment.


Understandable, and sorry I was a bit put off on all these threads being moved. Mainly the very active old ones is what pissed me off.



Klurejr said:


> I stand by my moves from the passion forum to more appropriate places if the passion forum is to be specifically about riding experiences. This enforcement is something I discussed with the new Ownership, in fact they plan to change the name from "passion" to "riding experiences" once the site is moved to their servers.
> 
> I do like a number of suggestions posted here and hope to see them as part of the new forum plan, namely:
> 
> ...


As for all this, time will tell but I don't like the sound of it. My input goes nowhere anyway so I'll just sit back and watch now.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> I stand by my moves from the passion forum to more appropriate places if the passion forum is to be specifically about riding experiences. This enforcement is something I discussed with the new Ownership, in fact they plan to change the name from "passion" to "riding experiences" once the site is moved to their servers.
> 
> ...
> 
> Also, I have yet to see anyone explain why a thread should be in passion just because someone puts the word passion in the title.


On this, I agree with DJ, and disagree with your moves, as well as with what you just mention as the plan for "new ownership" to rename this forum.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with DJ that picture threads from rides count as "Passion" and/or "riding experiences". I also feel like the head badge thread counts as "Passion" for bikes/riding. Even though it isn't specifically a riding experience, it's more about the art of bikes themselves. Bikes + Trail Markers fits. Stairs. Animal Encounters. Ridiculous story (though I think a different title would be better, the content fits). If it is a positive story about something that happened on a ride, there should be ZERO question about it fitting. If these don't count as "riding experiences" then what does?

I also think content related to "bikes as art" fits loosely with "Passion" as well. Better there than elsewhere on the site, IMO.

Some other stuff in DJ's screen shot is sorta marginal. I think the Brand Ambassador thread is an example of that. I think it can be equally fine in Passion or in General. Certainly, people who sign up for a given manufacturer's brand ambassador program are passionate about riding and they want to share their experiences with others. The thread as it actually turned out suggests General content, however.

Other stuff in that screen shot, I agree, has no place in Passion. Carbon fiber knives? Come on, not even bike related. Belongs in OC. What bike to buy threads? Don't belong in Passion. Bike & Frame. Trip planning? Ehhh, probably better in regional forums, unless it's a much more general than specific states/regions. I didn't read all of those threads, so I don't have a strong opinion on all of them. I don't think a thread's age is necessarily a good indicator of whether it should remain, either. The "how many bikes are you packing together for shuttles" thread is a good example of that. But the latest purchase thread, IMO, is fine.

I agree with fc that "Passion" was the OG MTBR forum, and it should stay. With the proliferation of other boards, it's of course going to have reduced traffic. But keeping the name "Passion" is a nod to the history of this place. If Philip wants to piss people off and send all the old timers packing, changing the name of it is going to be a good way of accomplishing that.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> Sorry DJ,
> I have a 6 week old baby at home and am not getting much sleep these days.


Well, why did you tell us, you could have started a thread in Passion&#8230;  congratulations.

I'm with Harold and DJ on what Passion should be. If you took that trail and stripped away all the animals and scenery, it would definitely lose passion. And face it, a lot of us are pretty passionate about our bikes, that's why we spend so much time here and money on our gear and like showing off our head badges and the stuff we just bought.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> Also, I have yet to see anyone explain why a thread should be in passion just because someone puts the word passion in the title.


Probably because there is no justification for it. Just people trying to make an excuse to put a thread here so it will get more views. These should be the first targets for removal. Same with the "what tire should I run" threads.



Klurejr said:


> Good feedback everyone.


I don't care what you call this subforum, but if you really want to make MTBR great again the forum setup needs to be changed so that photos display at full size. The way the forum currently downsizes them detracts a lot from photo threads and trip reports. It's hard to get motivated to post images here because of that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

evdog said:


> but if you really want to make MTBR great again the forum setup needs to be changed so that photos display at full size. The way the forum currently downsizes them detracts a lot from photo threads and trip reports. It's hard to get motivated to post images here because of that.


You probably don't remember when full size photos blew up the site layout, screwing up navigation because there would be no horizontal scrollbars. I don't like how it works now, either, because it also increases the size of intentionally smaller posted pics, but fixing it is going to require more work behind the scenes.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> This enforcement is something I discussed with the new Ownership, in fact they plan to change the name from "passion" to "riding experiences" once the site is moved to their servers.


Ah yes, the nail in the coffin. Not that I'm a target audience anymore, but hahahahahahahahaha!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Here is the current list of forums. We just kept adding forums as the site grew. We've never really pruned or categorized.


Passion - (76 Viewing)
26 - (20 Viewing)
27.5 - (82 Viewing)
29er Bikes - (335 Viewing)
29er Components - (85 Viewing)
26+/27.5+/29+ Plus Bikes - (150 Viewing)
All Mountain - (152 Viewing)
Apparel and Protection - (91 Viewing)
Beer Forum - (7 Viewing)
Beginner's Corner - (221 Viewing)
Bike and Frame discussion - (78 Viewing)
Bikepacking and Bike Expedition - (42 Viewing)
Brake Time - (250 Viewing)
Cars and Bike Racks - (90 Viewing)
Cargo Bikes - (5 Viewing)
Classifieds - (7 Viewing)
Clydesdales/Tall Riders - (19 Viewing)
Commuting - (45 Viewing)
Components - (77 Viewing)
Cyclocross - (41 Viewing)
Downhill - Freeride - (106 Viewing)
Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks - (360 Viewing)
E-Bikes - (17 Viewing)
Endurance XC Racing - (34 Viewing)
Enduro Racing - (13 Viewing)
Families and Riding with Kids - (65 Viewing)
Fat bikes - (301 Viewing)
Fifty+ Years Old - (12 Viewing)
Folding and Travel Bikes
Frame Building - (55 Viewing)
General Discussion - (359 Viewing)
GPS, HRM and Bike Computer - (23 Viewing)
Gravel Bikes - (30 Viewing)
Internal Gear Hubs - (22 Viewing)
Lights and Night Riding - (110 Viewing)
Lights DIY - Do It Yourself - (24 Viewing)
Nutrition and Hydration - (12 Viewing)
Off Camber - (off topic) - (38 Viewing)
Photography for mountain bikers - (5 Viewing)
Rider Down, injuries and recovery - (59 Viewing)
Shocks and Suspension - (443 Viewing)
Singlespeed - (112 Viewing)
Tandem Mountain Bikes - (6 Viewing)
Tooltime - (87 Viewing)
Trail Building and Advocacy - (56 Viewing)
Urban/DJ/Park - (32 Viewing)
Vacations & Destinations - (2 Viewing)
Videos and POV Cameras - (12 Viewing)
Vintage, Retro, Classic - (136 Viewing)
Weight Weenies - (67 Viewing)
Wheels and Tires - (478 Viewing)
Where are the Best Deals? - (41 Viewing)
Women's Lounge - (12 Viewing)
XC Racing and Training - (91 Viewing)


Regional Bike Trails and Rides ForumsThreads / Posts Last Post
Alaska - (6 Viewing)
Arizona - (53 Viewing)
California - Norcal - (171 Viewing)
California - Socal - (45 Viewing)
Colorado - Front Range - (46 Viewing)
Colorado - Western Slope - (5 Viewing)
Connecticut, Rhode Island - (3 Viewing)
Great Plains - OK, KS, NE, SD, ND - (4 Viewing)
Hawaii - (1 Viewing)
Idaho, Montana, Wyoming - (6 Viewing)
Massachusetts - (5 Viewing)
Midwest - IL, IN, OH, KY, IA, MO, MI - (9 Viewing)
Minnesota, Wisconsin - (4 Viewing)
Nevada - (2 Viewing)
New Mexico - (10 Viewing)
New York - New Jersey - (7 Viewing)
North & South Carolina - (25 Viewing)
Oregon - (15 Viewing)
Pennsylvania - (14 Viewing)
Southeast/Midsouth - GA, TN, AL, FL, MS, LA, AR - (11 Viewing)
Texas - (6 Viewing)
Utah - (13 Viewing)
Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine - (7 Viewing)
Virginia, WV, Maryland, DC, Delaware - (10 Viewing)
Washington - (20 Viewing)
Western Canada - (6 Viewing)
Eastern Canada - (19 Viewing)
Mexico - (11 Viewing)
Australia, New Zealand - (2 Viewing)
Europe - (2 Viewing)
Asia + Philippines
Other Areas - (2 Viewing)


Mountain Bike Manufacturer ForumsThreads / Posts Last Post
Airborne - (4 Viewing)
Banshee Bikes - (13 Viewing)
BMC - (4 Viewing)
Canfield - (15 Viewing)
Cannondale - (105 Viewing)
Canyon - (48 Viewing)
Commencal - (6 Viewing)
Devinci - (10 Viewing)
Diamondback - (36 Viewing)
Ellsworth - (8 Viewing)
Evil Bikes - (71 Viewing)
Felt - (2 Viewing)
Foes - (5 Viewing)
Foes Bicycles
Fuji - (3 Viewing)
Giant - (87 Viewing)
GT - (28 Viewing)
Guerrilla Gravity - (30 Viewing)
Haro - (6 Viewing)
Ibis - (91 Viewing)
Intense - (45 Viewing)
Jamis - (4 Viewing)
Kona - (38 Viewing)
Knolly - (44 Viewing)
Lynskey - (1 Viewing)
Marin - (6 Viewing)
Mongoose-Schwinn - (5 Viewing)
Motobecane - (11 Viewing)
Nicolai - (6 Viewing)
Niner Bikes - (23 Viewing)
Norco - (16 Viewing)
Orbea - (6 Viewing)
Pivot Cycles - (31 Viewing)
Ritchey Design - (7 Viewing)
Rocky Mountain - (28 Viewing)
Salsa - (27 Viewing)
Santa Cruz - (171 Viewing)
Scott Sports - (56 Viewing)
Shimano - (18 Viewing)
Specialized - (189 Viewing)
SRAM - (16 Viewing)
Surly - (60 Viewing)
Trek - (113 Viewing)
Transition Bikes - (43 Viewing)
Turner - (26 Viewing)
Ventana - (5 Viewing)
Yeti - (121 Viewing)
YT - (35 Viewing)
Custom Builders & Other Manufacturers - (13 Viewing)
Canadian Bikes - (9 Viewing)
Site Feedback/Issues - (4 Viewing)



There are currently 12584 users online. 1215 members and 11369 guests


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Here's a first cut at a re-org and categorization:

*Technical discussions*
General Discussion - (359 Viewing)
29er Bikes - (335 Viewing)
Apparel and Protection - (91 Viewing)
Bike Racks and Auto Transport- (90 Viewing)
Frame Building - (55 Viewing)
GPS, HRM and Cameras - (23 Viewing)
Internal Gear Hubs - (22 Viewing)
Lights and Night Riding - (110 Viewing)
Shocks and Suspension - (443 Viewing)
Tooltime - (87 Viewing)
Weight Weenies - (67 Viewing)
Wheels and Tires - (478 Viewing)

*Bike categories
*All Mountain - (152 Viewing)
Bikepacking - (42 Viewing)
Cargo Bikes - (5 Viewing)
Commuting - (45 Viewing)
Downhill - (106 Viewing) - RENAME TO DOWNHILL
E-Bikes - (17 Viewing)
Fat bikes - (301 Viewing)
Folding and Travel Bikes
Gravel Bikes - (30 Viewing)
Plus Bikes - (150 Viewing) - RENAME TO PLUS BIKES
Singlespeed - (112 Viewing)
Tandem Mountain Bikes - (6 Viewing)
Urban/DJ/Park - (32 Viewing)
Vintage, Retro, Classic - (136 Viewing)

*Biking Discussions*
Beer Forum - (7 Viewing)
Beginner's Corner - (221 Viewing)
Injuries and recovery - (59 Viewing)
Families and Riding with Kids - (65 Viewing) - FAMILIES AND KIDS
Fifty+ Years Old - (12 Viewing)
Off Camber - (off topic) - (38 Viewing)
Passion - (76 Viewing) - MOVE
Trail Building and Advocacy - (56 Viewing)
Women's Lounge - (12 Viewing)

*Racing forums *
Nutrition and Hydration - (12 Viewing) - - MERGE INTO RACING SUBCAT
Enduro Racing - (13 Viewing) - - MERGE INTO RACING SUBCAT
High School Racing
XC and Endurance Racing - (91 Viewing) - MERGE INTO RACING SUBCAT

*Regional Bike Trails and Rides *
Alaska - (6 Viewing)
Arizona - (53 Viewing)
California - Norcal - (171 Viewing)
California - Socal - (45 Viewing)
Colorado - Front Range - (46 Viewing)
Colorado - Western Slope - (5 Viewing)
Connecticut, Rhode Island - (3 Viewing)
Great Plains - OK, KS, NE, SD, ND - (4 Viewing)
Hawaii - (1 Viewing)
Idaho, Montana, Wyoming - (6 Viewing)
Massachusetts - (5 Viewing)
Midwest - IL, IN, OH, KY, IA, MO, MI - (9 Viewing)
Minnesota, Wisconsin - (4 Viewing)
Nevada - (2 Viewing)
New Mexico - (10 Viewing)
New York - New Jersey - (7 Viewing)
North & South Carolina - (25 Viewing)
Oregon - (15 Viewing)
Pennsylvania - (14 Viewing)
Southeast/Midsouth - GA, TN, AL, FL, MS, LA, AR - (11 Viewing)
Texas - (6 Viewing)
Utah - (13 Viewing)
Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine - (7 Viewing)
Virginia, WV, Maryland, DC, Delaware - (10 Viewing)
Washington - (20 Viewing)
Western Canada - (6 Viewing)
Eastern Canada - (19 Viewing)
Mexico - (11 Viewing)
Australia, New Zealand - (2 Viewing)
Europe - (2 Viewing) - DELETE
Asia + Philippines - DELETE
Other Areas - (2 Viewing) - DELETE

*Mountain Bike Manufacturers *
Airborne - (4 Viewing)
Banshee Bikes - (13 Viewing)
BMC - (4 Viewing)
Canfield - (15 Viewing)
Cannondale - (105 Viewing)
Canyon - (48 Viewing)
Commencal - (6 Viewing)
Devinci - (10 Viewing)
Diamondback - (36 Viewing)
Ellsworth - (8 Viewing)
Evil Bikes - (71 Viewing)
Felt - (2 Viewing)
Foes - (5 Viewing)
Foes Bicycles - DELETE
Fuji - (3 Viewing)
Giant - (87 Viewing)
GT - (28 Viewing)
Guerrilla Gravity - (30 Viewing)
Haro - (6 Viewing)
Ibis - (91 Viewing)
Intense - (45 Viewing)
Jamis - (4 Viewing)
Kona - (38 Viewing)
Knolly - (44 Viewing)
Lynskey - (1 Viewing) - DELETE
Marin - (6 Viewing)
Mongoose-Schwinn - (5 Viewing)
Motobecane - (11 Viewing)
Nicolai - (6 Viewing)
Niner Bikes - (23 Viewing)
Norco - (16 Viewing)
Orbea - (6 Viewing)
Pivot Cycles - (31 Viewing)
Ritchey Design - (7 Viewing)
Rocky Mountain - (28 Viewing)
Salsa - (27 Viewing)
Santa Cruz - (171 Viewing)
Scott Sports - (56 Viewing)
Shimano - (18 Viewing)
Specialized - (189 Viewing)
SRAM - (16 Viewing)
Surly - (60 Viewing)
Trek - (113 Viewing)
Transition Bikes - (43 Viewing)
Turner - (26 Viewing)
Ventana - (5 Viewing) - DELETE
Yeti - (121 Viewing)
YT - (35 Viewing)
Custom Builders & Other Manufacturers - (13 Viewing)
Canadian Bikes - (9 Viewing)
Site Feedback/Issues - (4 Viewing)

Comments? The regional forums with a lot of states and countries each are pretty jacked and have little hope of success, Need to separated or deleted.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

6 deletions? Where is my TPS report?

edit: actually, it has to be more than that, since I don't see all the wheel size forums on the new list (except 29er, cuz we are special).


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

My unsolicited opinion, whack all manufacturer forums (I'm sure that'll be popular with the sponsors), the Beer, GPS, IGH, Tandem, E-bike, Cargo, Folding, Gravel, DJ, 50+ forums, Off-camber, and any regional forum that doesn't have sufficient traffic (i.e. <10 active users).


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

What's this?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

No bikepacking forum?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> What's this?
> 
> View attachment 1220973


Riding experiences, duh

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

baker said:


> Riding experiences, duh
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Lol, I don't like it.


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

DJ, passion is definitely the forum for you.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

baker said:


> Riding experiences, duh
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


"Passion and riding experiences"

Don't worry, we'll never whack the word Passion. That is the soul or root of mtbr.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

jcd46 said:


> No bikepacking forum?


fixed. sowwy.

No fixie though


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> fixed. sowwy.
> 
> No fixie though


Keeping the 29er bikes forum but whacking all the other wheel sizes doesn't make sense. What makes 29er bikes more special or worthy than the others? Honestly I think even that one can be closed and the threads put elsewhere like in the riding style forums. Just because lots of people are viewing it doesn't mean it isn't a category that isn't better served being addressed in another way.

I might suggest a rename for the GPS forum. Call it "Bike Computers, Tracking, and Navigation" since any discussion of GPS inherently involves maps, mapping computer software, cell phone apps, and such. I think that title fairly concisely (in a future proof way) conveys the full breadth of navigation and tracking options (high tech or not) that exist now, and also other things that may crop up in the future. When that forum was named, smartphone mapping and tracking apps weren't a thing. Consequently, new users often post phone app questions all over the place. Even though it doesn't get a ton of traffic, it is a useful place to collect such discussions.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

FC,

*There's a good point made about the cross duplicating of thread topics outside of NorCal, it looks like NorCal is the test or the metric for thread topics. Stop doing that. If you wanna post the topic do it either in Passion or General and then simply make a thread in [Insert Region here, ie: NorCal] referencing the main topic like we always did BITD. It brings us all together in a non-regional thread which to some of us older members was the reason MTBR's Forums appealed more to us than other places.



fc said:


> Here's a first cut at a re-org and categorization:
> ...


So you're gonna cut out 26" and 27.Hype but keep 29"? What's your logic with that move?

Why not then just change all three and make them one single sub category under "Wheel Size Discussions" instead? Seems shortsighted to do any less especially now that the industry is in chats about needing to diversify 26" again due to lost sales? (Yes, I'm dead serious about this bit as well as 26 possibly being resurrected. IMHO just do a better Wheelsize section, bring it all back together and make it something people want to post up in.)


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

So I didn't want to quote this whole post, but tapatalk is being a ***** and erases everything when I try to clip out the parts I don't want to quote.

Edit - which it deleted anyway...lovely.

I was trying to think of how to handle wheel size discussions, and this same thought crossed my mind. I feel like a LOT of the traffic in that forum would go elsewhere. Most of the topics aren't really ABOUT the wheel size. MOST of the discussions on the first page fall into a couple categories - which bike discussions, which can be moved into the relevant bike type forum, or threads about specific bikes - which could either go into relevant manufacturer forums (where such threads exist quite successfully already when a specific brand or model is discussed), or into the relevant bike type forums. I think if you simply left the forum for wheel size discussions only, you wouldn't have much left and you'd want to merge that with wheels & tires. I say just put wheel size discussions in wheels & tires and call it done. Close the 29er bikes forum altogether. Hell, take the super general photo threads like 'share your 29er" and put them in Passion.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> Keeping the 29er bikes forum but whacking all the other wheel sizes doesn't make sense. What makes 29er bikes more special or worthy than the others? Honestly I think even that one can be closed and the threads put elsewhere like in the riding style forums. Just because lots of people are viewing it doesn't mean it isn't a category that isn't better served being addressed in another way.
> 
> I might suggest a rename for the GPS forum. Call it "Bike Computers, Tracking, and Navigation" since any discussion of GPS inherently involves maps, mapping computer software, cell phone apps, and such. I think that title fairly concisely (in a future proof way) conveys the full breadth of navigation and tracking options (high tech or not) that exist now, and also other things that may crop up in the future. When that forum was named, smartphone mapping and tracking apps weren't a thing. Consequently, new users often post phone app questions all over the place. Even though it doesn't get a ton of traffic, it is a useful place to collect such discussions.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Good suggestion on Bike Computers.

On the 29er forum, can't really kill that. It has a lot of action, community and regulars. Get rid of it and half that traffic and users will go away.

One solution is to keep 
26er
27.5er
29er

As is and tell them we'll merge these forums with the rest in a year. The real objective is to remove 29er components.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> One solution is to keep
> 26er
> 27.5er
> 29er
> ...


I dunno if a full year is necessary, but I think this is better than squashing 26er and 27.5 but leaving 29er alone. Remember that one issue I have been pointing out is a lack of consistency.

I have a feeling that a lot of that traffic will start to naturally migrate to other bike style oriented forums, anyway. Especially if you set cutoff dates that specific discussion types will start getting moved, and phase that process in over a period of time.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> I dunno if a full year is necessary, but I think this is better than squashing 26er and 27.5 but leaving 29er alone. Remember that one issue I have been pointing out is a lack of consistency.
> 
> I have a feeling that a lot of that traffic will start to naturally migrate to other bike style oriented forums, anyway. Especially if you set cutoff dates that specific discussion types will start getting moved, and phase that process in over a period of time.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Yep, the time is variable. Should be shorter. We kind of need:
Cross Country Bikes
Trail Bikes

then maybe kill all those racing forums. They're all cross country!


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

fc said:


> On the 29er forum, can't really kill that. It has a lot of action, community and regulars. Get rid of it and half that traffic and users will go away.


Not sure I understand the logic here. I never understood why there were separate forums for wheel sizes other than segregation and/or keeping separate tribes. Surely there is not THAT much discussion on the merits of different wheel sizes to warrant separate forums. This whole forum is supposed to be the community. Why can't these "regulars" that will go away learn to use a more organized forum? I wonder how many of these regulars just picked the 29er forum because they were overwhelmed with the choices of forums...so they picked what they rode.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> Yep, the time is variable. Should be shorter. We kind of need:
> Cross Country Bikes
> Trail Bikes
> 
> then maybe kill all those racing forums. They're all cross country!


Maybe just merge all the race disciplines into "racing" considering traffic levels would be super low with too much subdivision. There should still be a nutrition & hydration forum....maybe add training/fitness to that. Maybe call it Training, fitness, nutrition, & hydration. Should get decent traffic with the extra subjects.

One thing that recently occurred to me (and emphasized by your mention of cross country and trail categories) is how to define or set cutoffs for bike/riding styles. I think xc/trail can be one category. But considering that there are regularly questions from new riders about what those terms mean, I think those forum headings will need to specify the cutoffs.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Rockadile said:


> Not sure I understand the logic here. I never understood why there were separate forums for wheel sizes other than segregation and/or keeping separate tribes. Surely there is not THAT much discussion on the merits of different wheel sizes to warrant separate forums. This whole forum is supposed to be the community. Why can't these "regulars" that will go away learn to use a more organized forum? I wonder how many of these regulars just picked the 29er forum because they were overwhelmed with the choices of forums...so they picked what they rode.


I think that likely has a lot to do with it.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rockadile said:


> Not sure I understand the logic here. I never understood why there were separate forums for wheel sizes other than segregation and/or keeping separate tribes. Surely there is not THAT much discussion on the merits of different wheel sizes to warrant separate forums. This whole forum is supposed to be the community. Why can't these "regulars" that will go away learn to use a more organized forum? I wonder how many of these regulars just picked the 29er forum because they were overwhelmed with the choices of forums...so they picked what they rode.


Good point.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Good point.


Once upon a time, when I still had hair, different sized wheels were radical. Not so much anymore. Lose the wheel size forums, including 29er, which I still ride (mostly, besides my 26er, 27.5er, gravel bike, fat bike, etc)

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

baker said:


> Once upon a time, when I still had hair, different sized wheels were radical. Not so much anymore. Lose the wheel size forums, including 29er, which I still ride (mostly, besides my 26er, 27.5er, gravel bike, fat bike, etc)
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


And another good point. Some good points in here so far.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

I still think you have too many categories. I just think bikes are bikes--you can have different interpretations, but you don't have to pigeon hole every type of bike into a sub-category. Let the threads themselves sort out the discussion.... 

This would be my suggestion... But please gather more input 

Bikes of all kinds (1000 Viewing)
General Discussion - (359 Viewing)
Clothing, Apparel and Protection - (91 Viewing)
Cars & Racks- (90 Viewing)
Frame Building - (55 Viewing)
Electronics: GPS, HRM and Cameras - (23 Viewing)
Components and Tools (112 Viewing)
Lights and Night Riding - (110 Viewing)
Bikepacking - (42 Viewing)
Commuting - (45 Viewing)
Singlespeed - (112 Viewing)
Vintage, Retro, Classic - (136 Viewing)
Beer, Wine and Spirits - (70 Viewing)
Beginner's Corner - (221 Viewing)
Injuries, Recovery, and Injury Prevention - (59 Viewing)
Families and Kids - (65 Viewing) - FAMILIES AND KIDS
Off Camber - (off topic) - (38 Viewing)
Passion - (76 Viewing) - MOVE
Women's Lounge - (12 Viewing)
Trail Building and Advocacy - (56 Viewing)
Everything Racing – (2 Viewing)

Since this is the 'Passion' forum....


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> Maybe just merge all the race disciplines into "racing" considering traffic levels would be super low with too much subdivision. There should still be a nutrition & hydration forum....maybe add training/fitness to that. Maybe call it Training, fitness, nutrition, & hydration. Should get decent traffic with the extra subjects.
> 
> One thing that recently occurred to me (and emphasized by your mention of cross country and trail categories) is how to define or set cutoffs for bike/riding styles. I think xc/trail can be one category. But considering that there are regularly questions from new riders about what those terms mean, I think those forum headings will need to specify the cutoffs.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Agreed. XC and Trail are becoming more similar now and in the future.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

how about, instead of a 26er forum, how about a not old enough for vrc forum, but too new to to be able to get new parts for forum... as all the 26er stuff will end up in vrc, and the vrc guys will start killing people as "that bike is from '99 so get out"... and peopel will get all confused on where to post.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

baker said:


> My unsolicited opinion, whack all manufacturer forums
> 
> less active regional forums


Just no. It's been the best place to find specific info/tech specs/mods/issues/etc for a given bike. OK, so I've only gone into a couple of the brands but that's what I had questions about. They're alphabetical so it's not hard to understand the organization.

If the regions were consolidated a bit it'd help, but don't just delete them.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

Technical Discussions still needs a subforum for components and another for drivetrain (which should include internally geared hubs).

And kill the 29er forum already. Nothing but duplicate conversations in there about things that fit in other subforums.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

noapathy said:


> Just no. It's been the best place to find specific info/tech specs/mods/issues/etc for a given bike. OK, so I've only gone into a couple of the brands but that's what I had questions about. They're alphabetical so it's not hard to understand the organization.
> 
> If the regions were consolidated a bit it'd help, but don't just delete them.


Yep!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jcd46 said:


> Yep!


Double yep, is that even legal to say? "Double yep".


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

I've been on here since 2004 and I've never reported a thread, person, or post, but I've had plenty of mine moved, deleted, edited, etc. No more. I'm fighting back. #resist #triggeredpassion #notmymtbr #buffalowings


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Comes down to control freaks basically. If a thread doesn't belong in a certain forum folks won't reply to it. Guess where it ends up pretty quick? Two pages back. If it's a worthy thread and people enjoy it then they reply. That's what this site should be all about, entertainment and enjoyment. Controlling what others post is, well I don't want to get political but I think you know what I'm referring to.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DIRTJUNKIE again."


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mik_git said:


> how about, instead of a 26er forum, how about a not old enough for vrc forum, but too new to to be able to get new parts for forum... as all the 26er stuff will end up in vrc, and the vrc guys will start killing people as "that bike is from '99 so get out"... and peopel will get all confused on where to post.


I know. 26er is going to become it's own subculture with folks sharing info about the good ole days, parts and availability.

It's not VRC though.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

noapathy said:


> Just no. It's been the best place to find specific info/tech specs/mods/issues/etc for a given bike. OK, so I've only gone into a couple of the brands but that's what I had questions about. They're alphabetical so it's not hard to understand the organization.
> 
> If the regions were consolidated a bit it'd help, but don't just delete them.


Yeah, manufacturer forums are safe. That's where the industry participates a lot too and contribute. At the minimum, they all read their forums.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

amish_matt said:


> Technical Discussions still needs a subforum for components and another for drivetrain (which should include internally geared hubs).
> 
> And kill the 29er forum already. Nothing but duplicate conversations in there about things that fit in other subforums.


I'll float the idea there in that forum. Start giving them a runway perhaps.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Scott O said:


> I've been on here since 2004 and I've never reported a thread, person, or post, but I've had plenty of mine moved, deleted, edited, etc. No more. I'm fighting back. #resist #triggeredpassion #notmymtbr #buffalowings


yep, yep, yep. 

Sorry about that.

Better organization, better messaging and less police-ing is good. But you all have to post more!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

We'll start by moving Passion down the dropdown list and un-moving some of the posts. That's an easy one.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Double yep, is that even legal to say? "Double yep".


Yep, yep!


----------



## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Scott O said:


> I've been on here since 2004 and I've never reported a thread, person, or post, but I've had plenty of mine moved, deleted, edited, etc. No more. I'm fighting back. #resist #triggeredpassion #notmymtbr #buffalowings


#mustreportscotto ;-)

I didn't even know this was a thing til recently (besides the obvious spam issues)


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

baker said:


> For me, Mtbr is losing it's relevancy. Over moderation and 100 separate forums don't seem to help. I still occasionally check in, but have other places to go and things to do. This is life. Ever changing. Best of luck figuring it out!


Agreed. The Passion forum seems micromanaged.

Is there a way to stone two birds at once? (yes, a Ricky-ism!) Why can't a thread reside in multiple directories/forums at the same time? A post/thread is just a dynamically generated web page. Seems like the easiest way to satisfy everyone and could grow content.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

It's been a long time since I posted this rant about 29-specific hubs, handlebars, saddles, stems, grips, etc.:
Maybe I Don't Know What "29er" Means
...but it is the reason we don't really need a separate 29er forum.
...and I ride a 29er most of the time.

I think there are similar reasons to not have the other wheel-size forums.
Although, probably one reason there are so many sub-cat's is to avoid using the MTBR search function.

-F


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Scott O said:


> I've been on here since 2004 and I've never reported a thread, person, or post, but I've had plenty of mine moved, deleted, edited, etc. No more. I'm fighting back. #resist #triggeredpassion #notmymtbr #buffalowings


You forgot #nomorechunk


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Fleas said:


> It's been a long time since I posted this rant about 29-specific hubs, handlebars, saddles, stems, grips, etc.:
> Maybe I Don't Know What "29er" Means
> ...but it is the reason we don't really need a separate 29er forum.
> ...and I ride a 29er most of the time.
> ...


Wait, so there is no 29er specific grip? *gasp*

Totally agree that most of what falls into the wheel size sections doesn't really fit. Noobs put stuff there since that's the size of their wheels. When the 29/27.5 was new and people had questions/debates/discussions it made a bit of sense, but some of that is "history" of a sort, so what to do with it? The irrelevant threads could be moved and the "discussions" kept, but it'd be a pain to parse it all out. Then there's the question of where to put said history. MTBR archives? Tech history?

Either way, people should be weaned off the 29er bottle. :thumbsup:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

noapathy said:


> Wait, so there is no 29er specific grip? *gasp*
> 
> Totally agree that most of what falls into the wheel size sections doesn't really fit. Noobs put stuff there since that's the size of their wheels. When the 29/27.5 was new and people had questions/debates/discussions it made a bit of sense, but some of that is "history" of a sort, so what to do with it? The irrelevant threads could be moved and the "discussions" kept, but it'd be a pain to parse it all out. Then there's the question of where to put said history. MTBR archives? Tech history?
> 
> Either way, people should be weaned off the 29er bottle. :thumbsup:


I'd put those relevant wheel size debates in wheels & tires.

I'm in the process of building a 29er right now (first one for me, believe it or not), and I haven't visited any of the 29er forums, except for many months ago, I browsed some threads about AM hardtails and long travel 29er hardtails. I've done most of my discussion/research in the manufacturer forums.

It hurts less if you just rip it off quickly...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Who’s the head nurse in charge of this operation these days? I stopped by the nursing station several times and was confronted with a dumbfounded look when I asked that question.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Harold said:


> I'd put those relevant wheel size debates in wheels & tires.
> 
> I'm in the process of building a 29er right now (first one for me, believe it or not), and I haven't visited any of the 29er forums, except for many months ago, I browsed some threads about AM hardtails and long travel 29er hardtails. I've done most of my discussion/research in the manufacturer forums.
> 
> It hurts less if you just rip it off quickly...


I like that idea.

I think we also need a forum, perhaps a sub to the beginners corner called "Help me choose a bike", where people can post all the bike comparison help me choose threads. We can probably move many of the threads in the 26/27.5 and 29er forums there.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> I think we also need a forum, perhaps a sub to the beginners corner called "Help me choose a bike", where people can post all the bike comparison help me choose threads. We can probably move many of the threads in the 26/27.5 and 29er forums there.


I honestly think the current "Bike and Frame" forum covers those topics. I think it was more heavily trafficked for a little while after it was created, but as the site got bigger with new users, that intent wasn't obvious enough. Maybe rename it "Which Bike?" and populate it with the multitude of those bike comparo threads that show up practically everywhere. I still think it's valuable to let beginners ask about beginner bike comparo threads in the beginners' forum if they want to. I think the Beginners forum is really another "General" forum, yet with a slightly different atmosphere than mtbr at large.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

The Biginner Forum never made sense to me. A bunch of beginners going in and asking other beginners questions that should be asked to veterans of the sport. If it weren’t for the couple of veteran members fielding questions in that forum on a regular basis there would be a bunch blind leading the blind going on over there, more than there already is.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The Biginner Forum never made sense to me. A bunch of beginners going in and asking other beginners questions that should be asked to veterans of the sport. If it weren't for the couple of veteran members fielding questions in that forum on a regular basis there would be a bunch blind leading the blind going on over there. More than there already is.


That's cause you're not a beginner. 

It's a more welcoming, no question is dumb, highly trafficked area of the site.

But more FAQs, assigned experts, etc is a good idea.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The New Posts page has now been modified to exclude: all regional forums and e-bikes.

This is a common complaint/suggestion and the logic is 'not everyone wants see that'.

Please check it out.

fc


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> The New Posts page has now been modified to exclude: all regional forums and e-bikes.
> 
> This is a common complaint/suggestion and the logic is 'not everyone wants see that'.
> 
> ...


Here's a suggestion -

Tapatalk has a function that I use OFTEN that I wish the website version of the forum had. A quick link that showed me a list of threads I've participated in that have new responses. I'd still be thrilled if it was just a filter option for "New Posts" where I could check a box and it would just show me threads I've participated in.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

fc said:


> That's cause you're not a beginner.
> 
> It's a more welcoming, no question is dumb, highly trafficked area of the site.
> 
> But more FAQs, assigned experts, etc is a good idea.


I meant, wouldn't it be better for the beginners to get more accurate answers if they asked them where more knowledgeable people hung out? Most of their questions would be asked in General or suitable parts forums if the Beginner forum was done away with. As it is now we've got beginners answering other beginners questions. No wonder trail etiquette is at an all time low.  Just saying, I know there's more people in the sport blah, blah, blah, but this could be small part of the equation.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

So, I've vacillated between irritated and amused on this whole reorg. But, I actually think there is useful discussion going on here. Thanks all. Esp to the mods, cuz I know that has gotta be a thankless job.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

baker said:


> So, I've vacillated between irritated and amused on this whole reorg. But, I actually think there is useful discussion going on here. Thanks all. Esp to the mods, cuz I know that has gotta be a thankless job.


So you're telling me there's is a chance.

That you'll hang out some more?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> So you're telling me there's is a chance.
> 
> That you'll hang out some more?


Actually laughing my a$$ off. Thanks for that.


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Klurejr said:


> I think we also need a forum, perhaps a sub to the beginners corner called "Help me choose a bike", where people can post all the bike comparison help me choose threads. We can probably move many of the threads in the 26/27.5 and 29er forums there.


And I like THIS idea!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

baker said:


> So, I've vacillated between irritated and amused on this whole reorg. But, I actually think there is useful discussion going on here. Thanks all. Esp to the mods, cuz I know that has gotta be a thankless job.


kudos for using #vacillated in a discussion.


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Harold said:


> I honestly think the current "Bike and Frame" forum covers those topics. I think it was more heavily trafficked for a little while after it was created, but as the site got bigger with new users, that intent wasn't obvious enough. Maybe rename it "Which Bike?" and populate it with the multitude of those bike comparo threads that show up practically everywhere. I still think it's valuable to let beginners ask about beginner bike comparo threads in the beginners' forum if they want to. I think the Beginners forum is really another "General" forum, yet with a slightly different atmosphere than mtbr at large.


Nope, I gotta say the "Help me choose a bike" idea is great. That's exactly what many people ask. If they are asking that, they don't know to check out frames, etc.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Harold said:


> I'd put those relevant wheel size debates in wheels & tires.
> 
> I'm in the process of building a 29er right now (first one for me, believe it or not), and I haven't visited any of the 29er forums, except for many months ago, I browsed some threads about AM hardtails and long travel 29er hardtails. I've done most of my discussion/research in the manufacturer forums.
> 
> It hurts less if you just rip it off quickly...


Seems reasonable enough. There will be an adjustment period and a few who will always complain. Someone will have to write up a brief explanation to help "wipe the tears away" and reduce confusion.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Harold said:


> You probably don't remember when full size photos blew up the site layout, screwing up navigation because there would be no horizontal scrollbars. I don't like how it works now, either, because it also increases the size of intentionally smaller posted pics, but fixing it is going to require more work behind the scenes.


Good photos make a big difference in enjoyment of a site, so I would think it would be something worth putting some effort into fixing. Lots of other forums seem to have it figured out.



Harold said:


> I think if you simply left the forum for wheel size discussions only, you wouldn't have much left and you'd want to merge that with wheels & tires.


Good. Maybe people would realize the never ending argument about wheel size is lame and they should just go ride their bikes.



fc said:


> On the 29er forum, can't really kill that. It has a lot of action, community and regulars. Get rid of it and half that traffic and users will go away.
> 
> One solution is to keep
> 26er
> ...


Sure you can kill the 29er forum. In the old days we would have just called them all "bikes". A lot of threads still devolve into arguments about which wheel size is better or which bike is best of that particular wheel size. I just don't see the need for different forums for each. I like Klurejr's idea below. Just call it "Bike Discussion - which bike for me?". Pretty all encompassing and obvious. If this combined forum fills up with mostly 29er threads so be it. I doubt the users will move on.



Klurejr said:


> I think we also need a forum, perhaps a sub to the beginners corner called "Help me choose a bike", where people can post all the bike comparison help me choose threads. We can probably move many of the threads in the 26/27.5 and 29er forums there.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

*waiting for this thread to be moved*


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Battery said:


> *waiting for this thread to be moved*


rep given.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Battery said:


> *waiting for this thread to be moved*


Aw, I'm enjoying the ride experience of this thread...almost passionate even. 

(but for real, a more user friendly site is a challenge I'm glad to see them tackling)


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I moved a thread out of this forum today in whence a user was asking for a link to the road bike review website.

I hope no one is mad.......



:thumbsup:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I meant, wouldn't it be better for the beginners to get more accurate answers if they asked them where more knowledgeable people hung out? Most of their questions would be asked in General or suitable parts forums if the Beginner forum was done away with. As it is now we've got beginners answering other beginners questions. No wonder trail etiquette is at an all time low.  Just saying, I know there's more people in the sport blah, blah, blah, but this could be small part of the equation.


I totally agree with this.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Klurejr said:


> I moved a thread out of this forum today in whence a user was asking for a link to the road bike review website.
> 
> I hope no one is mad.......
> 
> :thumbsup:


RBR won't mind, there's no one there.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> I moved a thread out of this forum today in whence a user was asking for a link to the road bike review website.
> 
> I hope no one is mad.......
> 
> :thumbsup:


Yes, we linked him to the correct forum. :madmax:

LOL
Actually this is one of the few you moved that needed to be.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> I think fc said he was gonna keep the passion name as part of the new section title. The new site owner Admin who told me the name would change does not seem to be supporting the site anymore.....


Quoted from another thread.

FC, what gives here. Is it all back in your hands again?


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

The business model of _owning _a forum like this one is to sell advertising (or memberships to evade advertising). In that light it makes sense to have subforums for whatever is exciting right now. What do you do with them when they become moot or even silly? When there's nothing really exciting or new about 29ers and most bikes are 29ers and all the 29er buzz was ten years ago... do you delete it? Freeze it? There are some subforums that have no posts since this summer but there aren't any much older. Were they quietly axed?

What do you do when the traffic dies? I do come here for MTB content. Bike Forums has a MTB subforum and a fat bike subforum but they're a hundredth of this place, probably. But on the other hand I recently found where the tandem mountain bikers are mostly posting, for example, and it isn't on MTBR. The Ventana sub has six posts so far this year. But Ventana is still in business, I know. Their Facebook page updates only about once a month, but it does. Where are those owners and customers hanging out?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Quoted from another thread.
> 
> FC, what gives here. Is it all back in your hands again?


So the owner of Mtbr is a big media site called VerticalScope based in Canada. They run a bunch of forums and enthusiast sites.

I'm the main decision maker in Mtbr, in the past and moving forward. I think Klurejr was talking to one of the forum techs helping me out. There's a couple forum experts, Kyle and Philip that will be helping with migrations and better platforms in the future. They're not cyclists though so they won't have input in the biking stuff. They're busy with other migrations right now but they will be key in getting some features later.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Darth Lefty said:


> The business model of _owning _a forum like this one is to sell advertising (or memberships to evade advertising). In that light it makes sense to have subforums for whatever is exciting right now. What do you do with them when they become moot or even silly? When there's nothing really exciting or new about 29ers and most bikes are 29ers and all the 29er buzz was ten years ago... do you delete it? Freeze it? There are some subforums that have no posts since this summer but there aren't any much older. Were they quietly axed?
> 
> What do you do when the traffic dies? I do come here for MTB content. Bike Forums has a MTB subforum and a fat bike subforum but they're a hundredth of this place, probably. But on the other hand I recently found where the tandem mountain bikers are mostly posting, for example, and it isn't on MTBR. The Ventana sub has six posts so far this year. But Ventana is still in business, I know. Their Facebook page updates only about once a month, but it does. Where are those owners and customers hanging out?


True, true. 29er was a religion and a crusade a decade ago so it was key for the folks to have their own forum and gather. Every win was celebrated as folks and companies adopted the standard.

Anyway, that battle has been won so it's just a bike now and the subcategory is confusing. They key is to keep those folks interested and engaged.

All the dead forums like Ventana... either inject new life in them or delete/merge with others.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> that battle has been won


lol. as if that's what it was.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> lol. as if that's what it was.


 i think they believed it to be. Right??

They kept clamoring, fighting for suspension forks and all they got were 2nd rate one. Then they got the Reba and things changed. I think Niner even named their company that because of the crusade. They're in the same predicament.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I think the regional subs should be back in "New Posts". 

I've spent the majority of my life in SoCal and quite a bit in NorCal, so I like clicking on threads that interest me from those regions even tho I'm in the Midwest now. I also like to travel, so it's nice to look at current posts from regions to be traveled to. There's also some characters on the forum that I kinda follow no matter where they post, lol.

And I hate to say it, but I am interested in the what's going on in the ebike world. We've never experienced anything like them in the past. 

It would be great if users could select which subs to see/not see in New Posts.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> i think they believed it to be.


I'll agree with that.

Aside from the crappy suspension in the early years, lots of aspects of them sucked. Wheels were crap. Frame geo sucked. The real battle the manufacturers had was with themselves. I'm not sure that most really ever got that part of it.

Finally they don't suck anymore. I'm not sure I'd call that "winning a battle" unless fighting yourself counts.

The thing is, I don't think wheel size experimentation is over. 26 may not be much of anything now, but it'll eventually get reborn. Tire sizes have ebbed and flowed. Wide tires were a thing for DH years ago, they weren't very good, and they went away. Now tire mfg tech has made them better, so wider tires are back with a lot more variety, less weight penalty, and better performance than they used to be. The fat bubble is popping, but it won't go away entirely. Unless you want to go through this sort of thing every decade or so, it's probably a good idea to set up site organization to handle these ebbs and flows.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Harold said:


> 26 may not be much of anything now, but it'll eventually get reborn. Tire sizes have ebbed and flowed.


I've said this in the past and I believe it will happen. I actually just bought a bunch of new parts for a 2011 26'er that still has life left in it.

And then there's still a lot of people on 26 bikes that won't go 27.5 or 29, they could use a place to share info. Where would they post if there was a new run of 26" straight steerer forks that a company wanted to produce?


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Forgot to mention this idea earlier:

Merge the SoCal and AZ subforums. Yeah, I said it. Seems like everyone in Socal is quietly planning a move out of here at some point and AZ is the #1 destination. And everyone in AZ is out here at our beaches in the winter. Just sayin'


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cornfield said:


> I've said this in the past and I believe it will happen. I actually just bought a bunch of new parts for a 2011 26'er that still has life left in it.
> 
> And then there's still a lot of people on 26 bikes that won't go 27.5 or 29, they could use a place to share info. Where would they post if there was a new run of 26" straight steerer forks that a company wanted to produce?


A forum more oriented towards general wheel discussions, or a suspension forum, or a forum geared towards more general bike discussions. Simple enough.

You could easily split forums so finely that this place would appear dead, because each discussion would wind up in its own forum. I think things need to be organized such that the specific headings meet a few criteria:
1. The groupings intuitively make sense. People will self select to place stuff where it belongs, because it just makes sense that way. Less mess. Less work for mods. Better for everybody. Make it easier for the community as a whole to interact here.
2. Split things off where they make sense. It's natural that some forums will get more traffic than others. If the main criteria is traffic per forum, I think the big picture is being missed. Some topics inherently have a small audience and need a bit more visibility time to get the right answers. A big thing to watch for is whether a particular forum is getting SO MUCH TRAFFIC that topics run off the first page too quickly that they don't get views. That certainly happened in the early days of mtbr and prompted, to a degree, some of the bloat here currently. If that happens, then you need to look at creating a new forum to split off some of the discussions.
3. Just because something new comes up doesn't necessarily mean that it needs a new forum to discuss it. There's a good chance that if the forum is well organized, discussions about the new thing will fit an existing forum.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

evdog said:


> Forgot to mention this idea earlier:
> 
> Merge the SoCal and AZ subforums. Yeah, I said it. Seems like everyone in Socal is quietly planning a move out of here at some point and AZ is the #1 destination. And everyone in AZ is out here at our beaches in the winter. Just sayin'


LOL
Having lived in San Diego for 25 years. We called them *"Zonies".*. Every other license plate was an AZ plate on freeway 8 west bound on Friday's and east bound on late Sundays. Who was visiting who?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> I think the regional subs should be back in "New Posts".
> 
> I've spent the majority of my life in SoCal and quite a bit in NorCal, so I like clicking on threads that interest me from those regions even tho I'm in the Midwest now. I also like to travel, so it's nice to look at current posts from regions to be traveled to. There's also some characters on the forum that I kinda follow no matter where they post, lol.
> 
> ...


Just learn to meander from forum to forum that interests you, instead of relying on the "new posts" feature.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Harold said:


> A forum more oriented towards general wheel discussions, or a suspension forum, or a forum geared towards more general bike discussions. Simple enough.


I guess I'm just having a hard time imagining that. I didn't go into the 26 forum for info on my new parts, and when I was building 26" wheels I was mainly in the wheels and tires forum, so maybe you're right.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just learn to meander from forum to forum that interests you, instead of relying on the "new posts" feature.


New posts are new posts, I don't think any sub should be excluded.

*I was just browsing New Posts with all the regional subs showing and then again without them. It sure seemed a lot duller without. There's lots of places I'd like to travel to, and it's a good thing to see threads about places other than your local.


----------



## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Gasp4Air said:


> You forgot #nomorechunk


I think we have 2 choices here: either report and ban anyone who uses the word c*#%k or create a sub-forum dedicated to the discussion of c*#%k.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> New posts are new posts, I don't think any sub should be excluded.


True, I never realized the regional sub forums were excluded from the "new posts" feature. Mainly because I've never been interested in using that feature. Makes zero sense that they would be excluded though.


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> True, I never realized the regional sub forums were excluded from the "new posts" feature. Mainly because I've never been interested in using that feature. Makes zero sense that they would be excluded though.


They have always been included, they're trying it without them now, and it takes away a lot of content from the list. I like it way better with them included.

You cans see what's being excluded, it's right there under Search and page #:


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm probably one of the most clueless people who browses the mtbr. I use the "New Posts" button frequently. If the thread title seems interesting, I read that thread. Seems a shame to exclude other regions from my perusal when I might very well have an interest in the subject. I mean, I'm not a mechanic, but the bosses don't exclude those subs from "New Posts". Every now and then I see something of interest there. Everything can be interesting to someone.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> They have always been included, they're trying it without them now, and it takes away a lot of content from the list. I like it way better with them included.
> 
> You cans see what's being excluded, it's right there under Search and page #:
> 
> View attachment 1221129


Interesting, I tried using that feature just now and it's not for me. I'd rather just jump from forum to forum that interests me. Strange though that they would exclude the regional forums.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

fc said:


> 26er is going to become it's own subculture with folks sharing info about the good ole days, parts and availability.


This is the type of attitude that has led to fragmentation around here over the years, and overall frustration. There are people that still ride their 26" wheeled bikes because they prefer them - not because we are luddites, cheap, unenlightened, or whatever. I don't think they deserve a separate forum (nor do 29"ers at this point either), but maybe stop shitting on them all the time?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Point taken on the 'new threads' test of the modification. We'll back it out for now until it can get more configurability and options.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

New Passion forum name is:

Riding Passion and Stories.


And then drop it down alphabetically. Is that cool? I have like 5 other titles. We can take a poll if needed.

fc


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> Point taken on the 'new threads' test of the modification. We'll back it out for now until it can get more configurability and options.
> 
> fc


Would be GREAT if folks could have checkboxes to filter "New Posts" in a multitude of ways. Only stuff they've commented on (like the tapatalk feature I mentioned), filter out certain forums, by date, etc, etc. Almost like an advanced search that works (without the keyword stuff).


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

26 is not dead, 26 is life!

Also, this is a pretty great thread. The user feedback here and forum mod discussion has been civil and seemingly productive. Kudos to the posters for a good read and conversation. Carry on.... whoops, I 'meant... Roll on.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dbhammercycle said:


> 26 is not dead, 26 is life!
> 
> Also, this is a pretty great thread. The user feedback here and forum mod discussion has been civil and seemingly productive. Kudos to the posters for a good read and conversation. Carry on.... whoops, I 'meant... Roll on.


Overall we've got a good community. Somewhat civil at times and other times a bit moody.

FC, I like the new Passion forum name.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> Would be GREAT if folks could have checkboxes to filter "New Posts" in a multitude of ways. Only stuff they've commented on (like the tapatalk feature I mentioned), filter out certain forums, by date, etc, etc. Almost like an advanced search that works (without the keyword stuff).


For sure!! We'll see what the new platform has for us. I think that will happen in the winter.

For now, hopefully I can to default to 'view all new posts' and have links for 'new tech', 'new regional', 'new manufacturers'.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

blaklabl said:


> This is the type of attitude that has led to fragmentation around here over the years, and overall frustration. There are people that still ride their 26" wheeled bikes because they prefer them - not because we are luddites, cheap, unenlightened, or whatever. I don't think they deserve a separate forum (nor do 29"ers at this point either), but maybe stop shitting on them all the time?


Right on, sorry about that. I'm more referring to good old days of parts and availability.

I'm trying to update two 26er bikes right now and man, it's a pain test of forks and wheelsets. Tires too.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

dbhammercycle said:


> 26 is not dead, 26 is life!
> 
> Also, this is a pretty great thread. The user feedback here and forum mod discussion has been civil and seemingly productive. Kudos to the posters for a good read and conversation. Carry on.... whoops, I 'meant... Roll on.


Yeah, it's been a great exchange. We'll do what we can on this end. Your part, and the mods too is to... post and share more!!!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I'd would have said, before you do ANYTHING maybe send out a forum message notification or something to say, hey we're going to be making some changes to how stuff is organised...rather than just changing stuff so when people log in they know whats going on...not everyone looks at this thread...

oh wait...too late.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mik_git said:


> I'd would have said, before you do ANYTHING maybe send out a forum message notification or something to say, hey we're going to be making some changes to how stuff is organised...rather than just changing stuff so when people log in they know whats going on...not everyone looks at this thread...
> 
> oh wait...too late.


Good point, I just fielded a thread in the OC where a member was confused after trying to find Passion and started a thread about it over there. I let him [them] in on what was going on.


----------



## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Harold said:


> With a better organized website, the mods wouldn't need to be involved as much. The disorganization and inconsistency that fc has allowed for too long creates this problem.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...

and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...
> 
> and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


You need to log in every time? I don't, and yes the old days did rule.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...
> 
> and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


Was there a lot of flamers back then?


----------



## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Harold said:


> Here's a suggestion -
> 
> Tapatalk has a function that I use OFTEN that I wish the website version of the forum had. A quick link that showed me a list of threads I've participated in that have new responses. I'd still be thrilled if it was just a filter option for "New Posts" where I could check a box and it would just show me threads I've participated in.


the 'settings' tab takes you right to this magical place you seek...


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> You need to log in every time? I don't, and yes the old days did rule.


no, back then you could just pick any name to post under. you didn't need a registered handle...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> Was there a lot of flamers back then?


There was everything back then.


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

fc said:


> ..All the dead forums like Ventana... either inject new life in them or delete/merge with others.


FC, by the way, thanks again, and I know I've said this before, but thanks for the Surly section. In your honest opinion as it been worth the addition? I like how it has a reasonable amount of traffic and activity but think honestly that All City is now stealing that thunder even though both are essentially QBP.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> the 'settings' tab takes you right to this magical place you seek...


Only if you "subscribe" to every thread in which you post. which I do not, because that starts doing other things I don't like.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

you must have done something. by default, you are automatically subscribed to any thread you post in. you have to unsubscribe...


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## Z A C K (Feb 25, 2018)

Since you're taking requests, please consider putting bread crumbs (links back to the forum page) at the bottom of threads.

The user experience of having to scroll all the way back to the top (especially in mobile) to find links back is just not very good. Sure, you could just click back, but then the forum page doesn't update to show that you've read a thread.

Thanks!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

FC, maybe make a sticky at the top of General at least, maybe other forums as well with a link to the new “Passion Ride” forum. Just to let people know about it.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> FC, maybe make a sticky at the top of General at least, maybe other forums as well with a link to the new "Passion Ride" forum. Just to let people know about it.


Passion Ride? :lol:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> you must have done something. by default, you are automatically subscribed to any thread you post in. you have to unsubscribe...


Yes. I turned that **** off because I didn't like it. I DO like having an option to click on a link to see stuff I've participated in. I do NOT like being notified about all of them.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Harold said:


> Yes. I turned that **** off because I didn't like it. I DO like having an option to click on a link to see stuff I've participated in. I do NOT like being notified about all of them.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Same here, that drove me crazy.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Harold said:


> Yes. I turned that **** off because I didn't like it. I DO like having an option to click on a link to see stuff I've participated in. I do NOT like being notified about all of them.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


notifications and subscriptions are 2 different monsters. for me, a click on the settings tab brings all subscribed threads up for a quick glance at any topic i've participated in. notifications on the other hand, i do not receive for anything...


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

either way, i'm not trying to argue. i just find it funny that the default for me, is exactly what you wish you had...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> notifications and subscriptions are 2 different monsters. for me, a click on the settings tab brings all subscribed threads up for a quick glance at any topic i've participated in. notifications on the other hand, i do not receive for anything...


I save subs for limited topics I want quick access to. Not everything I talk about.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

for me, the subs fall off after about 12 hours of inactivity...

(edit: or possibly less. right now i can only see unread threads as far as three hours back. anything other than that is not showing, because i've already seen it and it has had no recent responses)


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> Passion Ride? :lol:


That's shorthand for "Riding Passion and Stories", jeesh!


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That's shorthand for "Riding Passion and Stories", jeesh!


I was just being an idiot, gosh!

Maybe a message banner at the top of the forum telling everyone about the changes?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> I was just being an idiot, gosh!


So was I, phew!



Cornfield said:


> Maybe a message banner at the top of the forum telling everyone about the changes?


Yeah, that's better than a sticky.:thumbsup:


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

So seeing as this thread has gone this far, technically doesn't this topic belong in Logistics or would it be Semantics?  Heeheehee


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> for me, the subs fall off after about 12 hours of inactivity...
> 
> (edit: or possibly less. right now i can only see unread threads as far as three hours back. anything other than that is not showing, because i've already seen it and it has had no recent responses)


There is also a separate section where you can manage which threads you're subscribed to, whether there are new posts or not. I like to keep that list manageable. And THOSE are the threads I actually do want notifications about.

I understand the tools available to me. I just use them differently than you do, apparently. And I'm allowed to do that. I'd still like to be able to see a filtered list of threads I've responded to that have new posts on occasion, without scrapping a method that I like and does work for me.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Obi said:


> So seeing as this thread has gone this far, technically doesn't this topic belong in Logistics or would it be Semantics?  Heeheehee


More like pedantic, or is that just your post? hehe (also, the joke's already been made) 

Now then, so far I've only gotten slightly confused with the new layout since I hadn't read the latest posts talking about renaming Passion to whatever it is that I've forgotten again. Must be naptime. Anyway, off to a good start!


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

noapathy said:


> More like pedantic, or is that just your post? hehe (also, the joke's already been made)
> ...


Get it right, it's morally objectionable apathetic pendantics. There's a reason for the love/hate when dealing w me and my commentary.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

evasive said:


> Klurejr specializes in overmoderation. This is just the most recent expression of it.


Wow. If you think that's over moderation, you should check out the Steve Hoffman music boards. You say something even remotely untoward and your post/thread will get binned. We're kind of spoiled here.


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## ThatGuyontheTrail (Sep 22, 2018)

Finch Platte said:


> Wow. If you think that's over moderation, you should check out the Steve Hoffman music boards. You say something even remotely untoward and your post/thread will get binned. We're kind of spoiled here.


 I suppose on a music board over moderation is better than overmodulation.


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

Things are fine as is.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

CWnSWCO said:


> Things are fine as is.


Did you mean "were fine the way it was"?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Did you mean "were fine the way it was"?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

ThatGuyontheTrail said:


> I suppose on a music board over moderation is better than overmodulation.


Your sharp reply left me flat! Those kinds of responses could get you in treble. :nono:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Finch Platte said:


> Your sharp reply left me flat! Those kinds of responses could get you in treble. :nono:


Do you have to say that with so much bass?


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## CWnSWCO (Apr 24, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Did you mean "were fine the way it was"?


That is what I meant...

but I don't know why I felt compelled to weigh in. This isn't my battle. I'm out!
Cheers everybody!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I'll put forward a new forum list/structure this week. 

If you have any suggestions of any forums that need to be deleted, renamed, added, reorganized, speak now.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

fc said:


> I'll put forward a new forum list/structure this week.
> 
> If you have any suggestions of any forums that need to be deleted, renamed, added, reorganized, speak now.


I'm all good with whatever you do with the forums. One issue though, could you please move these threads back to "Riding Passion and Stories" where they belong.

Animal thread > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/animal-encounters-908360.html

Head badge thread > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/head-badge-good-bad-ugly-photo-thread-955507.html

Abandoned Vehicle thread > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/abandoned-vehicle-thread-716247.html

Signs and trail marker photos > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/bike-trail-marker-pics-797394.html

Name the last purchase you made bike related only > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...test-purchase-[bike-related-only]-714345.html


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm all good with whatever you do with the forums. One issue though, could you please move these threads back to "Riding Passion and Stories" where they belong.
> 
> Animal thread > http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/animal-encounters-908360.html
> 
> ...


Done. ;-)


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...
> 
> and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


Sounds horrible.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> Done. ;-)


Why thank you, Sir! :thumbsup:


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Why thank you, Sir!


Ditto!

I guess asking for the steel bike pic thread to be moved back, is one too many?

Thanks Klujer!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Why thank you, Sir! :thumbsup:


Double thank you to Klurejr!!!


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

My only input to combining and reducing the number of subforums: Thread topics are almost never complete and descriptive. You will annoy lots of people who will now have to sort through the chaff to even casually browse the topic of their interest.

As is, there is at least a 75% chance that the "need help ASAP....." or "check out the sweet _____" thread is in the right location in front of an appropriate audience. I can see lots of threads dying prematurely because they are pushed down the page faster.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Sounds horrible.


Surprisingly, it wasn't. It was entertaining, and occasionally informative.

Thanks for the work Klurejr.

baker


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## big0mike (Jun 11, 2010)

Probably said already but it seems to be a solution to a problem that didn't exist...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bme107 said:


> My only input to combining and reducing the number of subforums: Thread topics are almost never complete and descriptive. You will annoy lots of people who will now have to sort through the chaff to even casually browse the topic of their interest.
> 
> As is, there is at least a 75% chance that the "need help ASAP....." or "check out the sweet _____" thread is in the right location in front of an appropriate audience. I can see lots of threads dying prematurely because they are pushed down the page faster.


Well, part of getting your topic noticed has always required some attention to choosing a good title. Some people are lazy about it and get click-baitey in an attempt to draw attention. Sometimes that works. Sometimes not.

There's certainly a risk of threads being pushed down the page faster, depending on final organization. Just because stuff gets consolidated now doesn't mean new boards can't be spun off in the future if they make sense. The problem now is that as fc has mentioned, in the past, no consolidation was ever done - just creation of new boards. So we have this weird piecemeal arrangement that winds up with a lot of redundancies.

One thing we may see is maybe a somewhat lower new thread creation rate, but more people posting replies in existing threads. Because there should be less redundancy between forum, and less likely to have the same discussion occurring in multiple places that thread participants don't notice.



big0mike said:


> Probably said already but it seems to be a solution to a problem that didn't exist...


Oh, the problem exists all right. People have been asking for some forum consolidation for years, as well as criticizing the excessive creation of new forums..


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Wow you guys sure whine a lot it's a free forum for bicycles lol. Go ride one maybe and stop worrying about pointless stuff?
Wowzers


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

bme107 said:


> My only input to combining and reducing the number of subforums: Thread topics are almost never complete and descriptive. You will annoy lots of people who will now have to sort through the chaff to even casually browse the topic of their interest.
> 
> As is, there is at least a 75% chance that the "need help ASAP....." or "check out the sweet _____" thread is in the right location in front of an appropriate audience. I can see lots of threads dying prematurely because they are pushed down the page faster.


On occasion when a thread title is vague or does not actually match the content of the thread I will modify it to be more accurate in the hopes that is draws the eyes that want to see it or participate in it.

If you feel a thread is getting lost due to a bad title, report the thread so a mod can look at it and change it, or bump the thread with a post so it gets back to the top of a page.

I prefer it when someone finds an existing thread on the topic they need to discuss and they open it back up instead of creating a redundant thread on the same exact topic.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I've never really understood what the "Bike and Frame discussion" sub is for. Seems like everything in there could easily go in other subs.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Cornfield said:


> I've never really understood what the "Bike and Frame discussion" sub is for. Seems like everything in there could easily go in other subs.


See Harold's post 101; I agree with him, change it to be "which bike should I buy?" And put it second, after beginners corner.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

fc said:


> I'll put forward a new forum list/structure this week.
> 
> If you have any suggestions of any forums that need to be deleted, renamed, added, reorganized, speak now.


I already posted a suggested list. But I do challenge you to create a 'classic forum' list with 25 or less topics/headings. I'll be interested to see if you are willing to make that *bold* of a move. I would prefer some serious pruning and not a small trimming.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

jl said:


> I already posted a suggested list. But I do challenge you to create a 'classic forum' list with 25 or less topics/headings. I'll be interested to see if you are willing to make that *bold* of a move. I would prefer some serious pruning and not a small trimming.


The problem is everyone hates change. Ax the 29er forum and half those users are gone.

The other one is is Google. Change the URL structure and the traffic can get severly harmed.

We'll see what we can do though.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Just changed the title of this thread from:
A lot of threads are being moved - feedback?

to the new. Original issue is solved but may want to keep this going since there's so much valuable input.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Some of my posts in this thread were just deleted, I want answers.:incazzato::lol::lol:


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## BiciMapas (Sep 18, 2010)

FC,

The On One forum does not show in the manufacturers list but it seems to still be there if you use a direct link

On One - Mtbr.com

Greetings


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

fc said:


> The problem is everyone hates change. Ax the 29er forum and half those users are gone.
> 
> The other one is is Google. Change the URL structure and the traffic can get severly harmed.
> 
> We'll see what we can do though.


The only constant in life is Change.

People may not like change, but they are certainly used to it.

Windows 10 looks and feels nothing like older versions, but it is faster, more stable and as of next year the only version MS will support for security updates and feature improvements.

Google Chrome has changed quite a bit since it first launched, as have Firefox, Opera and the other big players in the Browser world.

Not making a change because some users might not like it when it is best for the majority is not a great policy IMO.

That said, at the very least 29er components has GOT TO GO. just move everything to the regular components for now or lock it from posting while we migrate everything to the correct section, Brakes, Drivetrain... etc, etc. I would be happy to do some of the leg work in getting those threads moved, but the forum would need to be locked with a sticky message explaining where everything is going and why.

Perhaps to temper some of the indignation on the site change the names to Wheel Size 29, Wheel Size 27.5 and wheel size 26 so they drop down the list and do not show at the top, and remove them from the static links on the site banner.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I can tell you one thing I know for sure. Ever since the name change this forum has had very few visitors. Maybe a header above the popular other forums to give those that aren’t in the know some guidance.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I can tell you one thing I know for sure. Ever since the name change this forum has had very few visitors. Maybe a header above the popular other forums to give those that aren't in the know some guidance.


Almost like saying "Voldemort" out loud, but I'd say just let it die... Not sure why you'd need to direct traffic to a specific forum.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

fc said:


> The problem is everyone hates change. Ax the 29er forum and half those users are gone.
> 
> The other one is is Google. Change the URL structure and the traffic can get severly harmed.
> 
> We'll see what we can do though.


I don't think nearly so many users will just LEAVE. Some will, for awhile. Many will come back. But new users will still keep coming.

As for the URL structure, meh. Set up redirects where it matters, and Google will sort out the rest over time as it catalogs the changes and search traffic will be back.

Websites do this all the time. I set up a plugin on my own website to tell me when links are broken, so I see it all the time.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Harold said:


> I don't think nearly so many users will just LEAVE. Some will, for awhile. Many will come back. But new users will still keep coming.


Hmm...It would be interesting to see some historical data on forum activity. I suspect traffic has dwindled. Certainly, activity in what used to be Passion and the Front Range forum have gone from crazy to nearly nothing.

For me at least, mtbr.com just seems to be less and less relevant. It used to be the go to site for reviews, as well as discussion. Doesn't seem to be anymore. I don't think forum and thread shuffling or thread moderation is really the answer, but I also don't know what is.

Assuming that new users will replace those who leave out of frustration with changes and/or boredom seems like a recipe for obsolescence. I guess time will tell, but it feels a bit like the waning days of usenet around here...


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

fc said:


> Agreed. XC and Trail are becoming more similar now and in the future.


Well I hate to be the single person advocating more forums but it would be nice to split up classic 100/135 XC axles and modern 110/142 trail bikes, because this is becoming more and more of an issue. There are already many posts with "I can't find any 35mm rims for my bike" and then they say they have 100/135mm axles. You can't buy anything over 25mm with the older axle spacing, unless you get the LBS to build one for you or lace one yourself. It's just going to be more and more of these posts, in multiple forums. And a lot of the cheaper hardtail manufacturers are still cranking out the older axle sizes. A classic axle spacing forum for them would help, kinda like a 26" forum helps people with that size. I plan on sticking with the older spacing as long as I can, being the iconoclast that I am lol.

BTW I like the Passion forum because posts in there are positive. It's a nice offset to the e-bike forum.


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## ThatGuyontheTrail (Sep 22, 2018)

Cornfield said:


> I've never really understood what the "Bike and Frame discussion" sub is for. Seems like everything in there could easily go in other subs.


 If anything they should add a "Bike without frame" sub so we could talk theoritical bikes.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

baker said:


> Almost like saying "Voldemort" out loud, but I'd say just let it die... Not sure why you'd need to direct traffic to a specific forum.


For entertainment purposes only. It sucks walking into an empty bar but add some people and you've got some entertainment, no?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I'm not so sure most are on board with all these changes.

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-not-just-delete-general-discuasion-1091044.html


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm not so sure most are on board with all these changes.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/why-not-just-delete-general-discuasion-1091044.html


Someone doesn't seem to understand what all the subforums we already have are for.

Forums in general are losing relevancy because of all the other forms of social media that are grabbing people's attention. Organizing things here the way they should have been years ago won't change that.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Well, they probably realize now that they can generate a lot of posts just by making changes!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> Someone doesn't seem to understand what all the subforums we already have are for.
> 
> Forums in general are losing relevancy because of all the other forms of social media that are grabbing people's attention. Organizing things here the way they should have been years ago won't change that.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Don't take it out on me I'm just the middle man.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Don't take it out on me I'm just the middle man.


Not you. The guy who started that thread.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> Not you. The guy who started that thread.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Phew!


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

richj8990 said:


> Well I hate to be the single person advocating more forums but it would be nice to split up classic 100/135 XC axles and modern 110/142 trail bikes, because this is becoming more and more of an issue. There are already many posts with "I can't find any 35mm rims for my bike" and then they say they have 100/135mm axles. You can't buy anything over 25mm with the older axle spacing, unless you get the LBS to build one for you or lace one yourself. It's just going to be more and more of these posts, in multiple forums. And a lot of the cheaper hardtail manufacturers are still cranking out the older axle sizes. A classic axle spacing forum for them would help, kinda like a 26" forum helps people with that size. I plan on sticking with the older spacing as long as I can, being the iconoclast that I am lol.
> 
> BTW I like the Passion forum because posts in there are positive. It's a nice offset to the e-bike forum.


What would be so wrong about these being in the wheel forum? Is it because people asking the questions can't specify what their axle size is and need a specific forum for it?


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## Rock (Jan 13, 2004)

I have 1 question, when do these "improvements" happen? I can't wait. This should be great.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Rockadile said:


> What would be so wrong about these being in the wheel forum? Is it because people asking the questions can't specify what their axle size is and need a specific forum for it?


I think what rich is saying is that he wants a "richj8990 Forum" where he can post only his own stuff in it, because he's tired of figuring out how his questions fit into existing boards.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I can tell you one thing I know for sure. Ever since the name change this forum has had very few visitors. Maybe a header above the popular other forums to give those that aren't in the know some guidance.


That was by design...

I think the name change has less to do with that, The traffic slowed because it was no longer the very first forum at the top of the drop down list.

There were too many "general" or otherwise Off Topic (in regards the topic ofMTB passion) showing up in that section. There is still plenty of activity that fits the section in there, just not all the random crap that did not belong.

In regards to the overall status of the site, I do agree that many users are diverted to other forms of media to get info on MTB these days.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Rockadile said:


> What would be so wrong about these being in the wheel forum? Is it because people asking the questions can't specify what their axle size is and need a specific forum for it?


Well that's the same thing as saying every wheel size should be in one forum. Maybe they should. But it seems like bikes are categorized first by drivetrain, second by everything else, so there's 7-10 and 11-12, the number of gears don't even really matter compared with the axle spacing IMO. If drivetrain is the most important MTB distinction then there should be a separate forum for the older axle spacing. Otherwise, don't make drivetrain such an important distinction.

And...as I've found out researching bike builds, everything is linked together with axle spacing. Because if a frame has a tapered headtube, then you need a 15 or 20mm dropout on the fork, and that in turn affects what wheels you can get. And yes I've read about the Hope and DT Swiss caps, but this axle spacing that affects/is affected by frames, forks, and wheelsets is such an important topic that it should have its own forums, and not just a potpourri of posts in the Wheels forum.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

richj8990 said:


> Well that's the same thing as saying every wheel size should be in one forum. Maybe they should. But it seems like bikes are categorized first by drivetrain, second by everything else, so there's 7-10 and 11-12, the number of gears don't even really matter compared with the axle spacing IMO. If drivetrain is the most important MTB distinction then there should be a separate forum for the older axle spacing. Otherwise, don't make drivetrain such an important distinction.
> 
> And...as I've found out researching bike builds, everything is linked together with axle spacing. Because if a frame has a tapered headtube, then you need a 15 or 20mm dropout on the fork, and that in turn affects what wheels you can get. And yes I've read about the Hope and DT Swiss caps, but this axle spacing that affects/is affected by frames, forks, and wheelsets is such an important topic that it should have its own forums, and not just a potpourri of posts in the Wheels forum.


No. Discussion about wheels (including axles) should be in the wheels & tires forum. Discussions about bikes and frames, currently, can happen in several potential places. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. But there should be better grouping of these. I like a catch-all "What bike for me" forum that would group a whole lot of these threads that currently happen in several different forums that exist as little else but places where people ask which bike for them.

There have been SEVERAL variations/transitions in axle size over the decades. We DO NOT need a forum specifically about axle sizes. It would be like saying we need separate forums for each specific freehub/cassette interface. For chrissakes, NO! My hell, if you can't find what you need regarding axle sizes with a simple google search at this point, then you've got deeper problems.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

I've been following this discussion, even contributed once or twice. But here's the thing: some of us are trying to herd cats. This has to be there. That has to be somewhere else. Every thread has an appropriate forum and it's very important to keep things neat and tidy.

Ok. Maybe some updates were due. Maybe it's time to let it go to find it's messy way. It's just a bike forum, after all.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Gasp4Air said:


> I've been following this discussion, even contributed once or twice. But here's the thing: some of us are trying to herd cats. This has to be there. That has to be somewhere else. Every thread has an appropriate forum and it's very important to keep things neat and tidy.
> 
> Ok. Maybe some updates were due. Maybe it's time to let it go to find it's messy way. It's just a bike forum, after all.


The point, at least from my perspective, is that the topic organization of this place now doesn't make sense. We have some boards that state a topic, but in effect are just their own universes unto themselves where people post what they want.

Part of the problem seems to be absent mods (this was at least the case in Passion, and reported posts intentionally got ignored). Part of the problem is related to messy forum organization and poor board naming (resulting in confusion, redundancy, and people posting stuff wherever, mostly new users). Part of the problem is the sheer number of subforums, too.

They are all fixable, at least to a degree. There are too many users and too many posts to be able to merge it all together into a single board. But some of the redundant subforums can be eliminated, and stuff can be organized better so people self organize better from the start.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## ThatGuyontheTrail (Sep 22, 2018)

Harold said:


> The point, at least from my perspective, is that the topic organization of this place now doesn't make sense. We have some boards that state a topic, but in effect are just their own universes unto themselves where people post what they want.
> 
> Part of the problem seems to be absent mods (this was at least the case in Passion, and reported posts intentionally got ignored). Part of the problem is related to messy forum organization and poor board naming (resulting in confusion, redundancy, and people posting stuff wherever, mostly new users). Part of the problem is the sheer number of subforums, too.
> 
> ...


 I think your second paragraph captures the biggest single issue which is that regardless of how the forum is organized, people will post whatever they want, whereever they want. Newbie or not.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ThatGuyontheTrail said:


> I think your second paragraph captures the biggest single issue which is that regardless of how the forum is organized, people will post whatever they want, whereever they want. Newbie or not.


Um, that's not a point that I made. A lot of new riders post stuff in the wrong place because they site organization doesn't make sense. They don't know what sections to look for. They have to weed through the list to find something they don't know is there. In fact, here's a post by a new user commenting on exactly that. This one took the time to try to figure out where to post his topic, and ran into some hurdles in doing so. A lot of them post in the first place that looks like it vaguely covers what they want to do.

http://forums.mtbr.com/26er-bikes/place-maze-also-cheap-klunkers-y-n-1091389.html

My ACTUAL point is that it should be easier for people to find the best place for their post. And there are concrete housekeeping/organization things that can be done to make that happen.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Some good suggestions posted in another thread that got closed that I think it's worth bringing attention to.

Why Not Just Delete General Discuasion - Page 2- Mtbr.com

Most have been discussed already, but there's a couple others that are interesting and worth addressing, IMO.



The Boz said:


> -Gravel: combine with Cyclocross to become "Cyclocross and Gravel"


This is worth exploring. This site is a MOUNTAIN BIKE site, so lumping other non-mtb riding disciplines is probably smart



> -Cargo bikes: Really? About ten people have actually visited this sub forum. Delete.
> -Folding bikes: Delete. At a minimum combine with cargo bikes. If you post in this forum, you will get an answer in about six months.
> -Commuting: Delete. Most of these threads could be put in other sub forums like apparel, tires, etc.


I don't exactly agree here, but it's interesting to think about. What I do think is that all three should be combined. Similar logic to my last comment. Maybe call it "Riding as Transportation" or something along those lines. Any extremely nichey discussion of folding mtb's for trail riding can happen in whatever other relevant forum it fits in.



> -"Computers, Cameras, and Lights." This new forum would combine about 5-6 sub forums, including the GPS forum, the Video/POV forum, the photography forum, the two lights forums, and probably one or two others I haven't noticed.


This is something I haven't considered, and I think it's worth thinking about. None of these forums is HEAVILY trafficked, honestly. These are all "accessories" to riding that aren't absolutely required. It's also probably worth moving any photo or video threads that are about photographs or videos into the Riding Passion forum. Keep this one about just the gear. Lump it into the "tech" section.



> -Internal Gear Hubs: Combine with Drivetrain.


This makes complete sense.



> -Wheel size sub forums: we have three of them, for 26, 27, and 29. Then we have the "Bike and Frame" sub forum. Don't forget "General" either, or the plus, AM, Downhill, Enduro, and XC forums. Choose wisely or the neat-niks will hang you by your chamois. I'd recommend combining the 26 sub forum with the "Vintage/Retro" and then combine 27 and 29 into just "Bike and Frame Discussion."


We've been talking about this the entire time, but honestly it just needs to happen. @fc, just lop off the wheel size forums altogether. It's a good point that a lot of the 26er threads could go to VRC. But with the "definition" of vintage being about 20yrs old (and the impending flip out of the die hard VRC posters when a thread about a 10yr old bike winds up there), and 26ers even still being sold (albeit on a very limited basis), tossing them into the "Bike and Frame" forum (possibly to be renamed?) makes more sense to me. I would say to include the plus forum into the pruning, too. The way most manufacturers are treating them now is that a 26+ frame is the same one they'd also offer with 27.5" wheels, a 27.5+ is one that they'd also offer with 29er wheels. 29+ is the only one that manufacturers occasionally offer on its own, but not always.

I'd go so far as to add the fatbike forum to the prune list, but that one would be a chore. Because the discussions there vary from talk about frames, to wheels, to drivetrain, apparel, components, and so on. Maybe that one would be one to target as a slow phase out if it's decided to do anything at all. Maybe start by moving the apparel discussions into the apparel forum first or something if it's decided to phase it out.

One that hasn't been mentioned - delete the vacation forum. People post vacation questions in the relevant regional forums, anyway. What's the point of the vacation forum?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I pretty much agree with Harold. I think the key is to look for the amount of traffic and combine low traffic forums. CX and gravel bikes makes sense to me; I have a CX but only ride it as a gravel bike, I've never raced it. I've posted in both forums.

Commuting should stay it's own forum; there is a close knit group in there that post regularly. But Cargo and Folding Bikes can be combined, probably with others.

I'm leaning toward 26ers staying its own forum and 27.5 combining with 29. 26ers are too common to be vintage/retro but distinctly different than 27.5/29; 26 is about older standards and parts that are no longer made/low selection (if it's brakes or similar, those should be in a more specific forum than the 26er). Especially since it is at the top as a lot of noobs to the site have dragged out there old 26er so it's easy for them to find to get started (btw, I have 2 26ers in my basement).


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

chazpat said:


> Commuting should stay it's own forum; there is a close knit group in there that post regularly.


I honestly don't think the folks in the Commuting forum would care. They weren't the ones who asked for cargo bikes and folding bikes to be spun off into their own subforums in the first place. Further, I think a rename to "Riding as Transportation" is a bit more inclusive, anyway, as it would include commuting as well as other errands. Which is what they talk about in the Commuting forum, anyway.

There would probably be some initial confusion about broken bookmarks (there will be with ANY reorganization of any sort), but if site management made a big announcement post maybe a month in advance of the change, it would lessen the outrage over it. And probably if they even went so far as to make a custom 404 page with the new link structure in it, that would help. They could even go so far as to set up redirects from the old structure to the main forum list, or even straight to the announcement. Let people know what the new structure will be before it actually happens. Where the "missing" forums are going/have gone. Etc, etc. Leave the announcement up for a couple months after the changes, too.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Harold said:


> I honestly don't think the folks in the Commuting forum would care. They weren't the ones who asked for cargo bikes and folding bikes to be spun off into their own subforums in the first place. Further, I think a rename to "Riding as Transportation" is a bit more inclusive, anyway, as it would include commuting as well as other errands. Which is what they talk about in the Commuting forum, anyway.
> 
> There would probably be some initial confusion about broken bookmarks (there will be with ANY reorganization of any sort), but if site management made a big announcement post maybe a month in advance of the change, it would lessen the outrage over it. And probably if they even went so far as to make a custom 404 page with the new link structure in it, that would help. They could even go so far as to set up redirects from the old structure to the main forum list, or even straight to the announcement. Let people know what the new structure will be before it actually happens. Where the "missing" forums are going/have gone. Etc, etc. Leave the announcement up for a couple months after the changes, too.


Yeah, as long as they don't get disrupted too much, keep the focus on commuting since as you've pointed out, it has a lot of traffic compared to cargo/folding. Maybe "Commuting and riding as transportation".


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

It's so freaking simple- copy the Steve Hoffman forums. They are perfect, except for the overbearing mods, of course.

FC, you appeared interested in them, did you ever investigate?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

When I hit 'reply to thread', why does it stick my post somewhere in the middle of the entire thread, instead of at the end??


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Finch Platte said:


> When I hit 'reply to thread', why does it stick my post somewhere in the middle of the entire thread, instead of at the end??


It doesn't.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

If you hit reply with quote a window will open up below that post, but when you hit reply it places the reply at the end of the thread. First written, first posted....


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dbhammercycle said:


> If you hit reply with quote a window will open up below that post, but when you hit reply it places the reply at the end of the thread. First written, first posted....


That's what I was trying to explain to him above your post, Jeesh Finch.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Shark said:


> Wow you guys sure whine a lot it's a free forum for bicycles lol. Go ride one maybe and stop worrying about pointless stuff?
> Wowzers


Squeaky wheels get the grease.

Or in Picard's case, squeaky wheels get the WD-40.


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## ThatGuyontheTrail (Sep 22, 2018)

Finch Platte said:


> Squeaky wheels get the grease.
> 
> Or in Picard's case, squeaky wheels get the WD-40.


 Beats using whale blubber on your wheels. (I know that was a pointless comment, I just wasn't ready to jump the shark tank with some other pointless comment, like what concealed holster do you prefer or discussion about the {so called} "awesome strap." From what I can tell, those usually precede the thread going completely off track.)


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

This should make it simpler, even for Picard


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## ThatGuyontheTrail (Sep 22, 2018)

JackWare said:


> This should make it simpler, even for Picard
> 
> View attachment 1223206


 I feel obligated (by my earlier post) to suggest that you add a forum for "Alternate Lubericants."


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...
> 
> and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


OK I think I found the solution to cleaning up all forums: The Grumpy Old Man Forum, where all of this angst can go into one forum, and away from everything else.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> OK I think I found the solution to cleaning up all forums: The Grumpy Old Man Forum, where all of this angst can go into one forum, and away from everything else.


They already have that.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Good point.


A hat will cover that up...

I started drifting away from MTBR when the forums expanded from the original groups to the expanded/specialized/sub-forums.

It took more time and effort to consume content and participate in discussions (or poo flinging). So I stopped spending my work.... er free time on MTBR and spent more in my local forums. When the local forum switched their primary online presence to Facebook, I basically stopped participating in online forums.

Ironically, there's now an old-timers MTBR Gathering post on FB.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> OK I think I found the solution to cleaning up all forums: The Horny Old Man Forum, where all of this angst can go into one forum, and away from everything else.


Fixed it for you. And&#8230;

They already have that


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

sure would be nice to get notifications of replies to subscribed threads.

I've seen other forums (not bike related) try and create way too many sub forums. it never worked out well.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i miss the old days where you didn't need a log-in and the flame wars lasted forever...
> 
> and every thread would get hundreds or replies...


That was the best. Celly vs UPPC. Well just about everyone vs. UPPC. Hard to believe that was over twenty years ago. Where'd the time go? Twenty years ago, the MTBR gatherings we're started. Good times.

Put Passion back at the top. This has been tried before and failed. I'd also like to see F88 come back (political forum for you newbs)


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Finch Platte said:


> When I hit 'reply to thread', why does it stick my post somewhere in the middle of the entire thread, instead of at the end??





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It doesn't.





dbhammercycle said:


> If you hit reply with quote a window will open up below that post, but when you hit reply it places the reply at the end of the thread. First written, first posted....


There's a place in the settings menu to change how the posts are arranged. I like mine "linear , newest at top" style.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

*How time flies*

It's been a month and Passion has been renamed. :yawn: Maybe some baby steps...

Endurance XC Racing (19)
Enduro Racing (9)
XC Racing and Training (73)
NICA-High School Collegiate Racing (2)
----------------------------------------------
Racing (103)


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Renaming/moving/burying this forum has effectively killed it.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> That was by design...
> 
> I think the name change has less to do with that, The traffic slowed because it was no longer the very first forum at the top of the drop down list.
> 
> ...


Klurejr, you said a few months ago that you had a ton of ideas about new hardtail and/or trail forums for 140mm or less travel bikes, what happened? Did those ideas get shot down from the other admins? Or you are just too busy 9-5?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mikesee said:


> Renaming/moving/burying this forum has effectively killed it.


Yep, the problem is they changed the name to start with a different letter than P for Passion. Members who are just coming in that missed the initial name change go to find Passion at the top where it used to be. Hmmmm pondering, pondering. . it's not there, pondering. They either give up or it dawns on them that maybe Passion was finally put in alphabetical order. They scroll down to the P's and there's no Passion anymore. Who the hell would delve into every letter of the alphabet looking for a forum similar to Passion? nobody that's who.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Renaming/moving/burying this forum has effectively killed it.


Yep, they should have left Passion at #1 and moved General up to #2&#8230;


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Renaming/moving/burying this forum has effectively killed it.


Yep. Restore it to the top of the forum and police it for chaff threads.


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