# Climbing Etiquette



## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I was climbing my local trail this morning when a guy comes up on my ass and is yelling at me to let him pass.... I'm in my zone and don't want to stop but he was being such a douche I just want to get rid of him so I pull off and stopped.... He was full throttle on an eBike and I'm on a non pedal assist. Does he have the right away? I'm not sure of the rule here....


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

So you are okay if a stronger rider approaches on a normal bike only, but not in this case?

Was he 'yelling' because he was far away when first announcing himself that he had to speak loudy (perceived as yelling)?

When I yell out to runners and am on my bike, I have to start early as I'm approaching them too quickly for them to process that I am there. Should I wait until I am there, they will hear me then I will be past them.

When has it ever been appropriate to hold up a faster rider behind us?


I'm gonna check the rest of MTBR forums for a post stating an e-bike rider came across a douche on the trail going too slow and would not quickly allow the pass.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Me personally, when a faster rider comes up behind me, I pull over when there’s a place to move over.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

mtbbiker said:


> Me personally, when a faster rider comes up behind me, I pull over when there's a place to move over.


I also don't like it when I come up behind a rider and they pull over and stop to let me by rather than waiting a short time for a spot where it's a bit wider and slowing down while I pass as I feel like I disrupted their ride. Likewise, if someone comes up behind me, I tell them to come by when they have a chance and then look for a place to let them get by without me having to stop. I'm not going to stop for someone if I'm climbing where I can't restart.

When I'm on my ss, I'll fall back some if approaching another rider when approaching a steep climb so that I don't run up on them. I would not expect them to stop.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

chazpat said:


> I also don't like it when I come up behind a rider and they pull over and stop to let me by rather than waiting a short time for a spot where it's a bit wider and slowing down while I pass as I feel like I disrupted their ride. Likewise, if someone comes up behind me, I tell them to come by when they have a chance and then look for a place to let them get by without me having to stop. I'm not going to stop for someone if I'm climbing where I can't restart.


Good points!


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## squashyo (Oct 28, 2003)

Personally, I feel like a douche when passing a rider (s) on a climb and it's usually frequently. Re-starting a climb, mid climb on a regular bike is the opposite of fun (kills your flow and momentum and starting on an incline is typically a *****). So if an assist bike created this environment, that's not cool in my book. This guy above was an asshole and makes us look bad. When I come up on riders climbing I say. "No worries and no hurry...pull over when it's easy or I'll pass when there is a clear opening." I am on a frickin' ebike for god's sake...I can get up the hill without effort and I certainly ain't a badass for getting up the hill for Strava's sake.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

squashyo said:


> Personally, I feel like a douche when passing a rider (s) on a climb and it's usually frequently. Re-starting a climb, mid climb on a regular bike is the opposite of fun (kills your flow and momentum and starting on an incline is typically a *****). So if an assist bike created this environment, that's not cool in my book. This guy above was an asshole and makes us look bad. When I come up on riders climbing I say. "No worries and no hurry...pull over when it's easy or I'll pass when there is a clear opening." I am on a frickin' ebike for god's sake...I can get up the hill without effort and I certainly ain't a badass for getting up the hill for Strava's sake.


 This. When I go out to ride, I make sure I have zero time constraints. I usually ride alone and never really pass anyone. My trails may not be as congested.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

I cannot wait to try an e-bike.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I pull over for faster riders both up and down as soon as I hear them and am hopefully out of their way before they reach me. I'd like to expect the same situational awareness from other riders. Of course there are exceptions such a really tech sections or narrow cliffy stuff but these are pretty obvious to both parties. I will clarify I'm speaking specifically to mountain bikers, not interested in riding motorized trails if I can avoid them.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Regardless of pedal or motor assisted, I would find a spot to let the person pass but certainly would not stop and pull over. All momentum is lost at that point. The upcoming rider needs to chill to allow safe passage from the slower rider.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Phillbo said:


> I was climbing my local trail this morning when a guy comes up on my ass and is yelling at me to let him pass.... I'm in my zone and don't want to stop but he was being such a douche I just want to get rid of him so I pull off and stopped.... He was full throttle on an eBike and I'm on a non pedal assist. Does he have the right away? I'm not sure of the rule here....


No, because humans aren't built with eyes in the back of our heads; probably that guy who buzzed my back tire a few years ago has gotten himself an eBike.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I have no problem getting passed when climbing (I'm slow and I know it) but this guy was on my ass in a very tight and techy spot. It only pissed me off because he was pushing for me to stop and let him by and then I realized he probably would not have caught me in that section if not for his motor. 

Do eBikes have the right away? I know as a MTBR I yield to Hikers, Horses and uphill traffic. Do I yield to motos now?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Phillbo said:


> I have no problem getting passed when climbing (I'm slow and I know it) but this guy was on my ass in a very tight and techy spot. It only pissed me off because he was pushing for me to stop and let him by and then I realized he probably would not have caught me in that section if not for his motor.
> 
> Do eBikes have the right away? I know as a MTBR I yield to Hikers, Horses and uphill traffic. Do I yield to motos now?


If someone wants to pass me, doesn't matter who they are, it's their responsibility to do so safely and respectfully. As the rider in front, I get to choose where this happens.

USUALLY, riders who want to pass are pretty good about waiting and asking to pass when it's reasonable to do so. They're patient, and they don't mind backing off on the pace a little bit. Usually I notice they're back there and let them pass before they say anything. Amusingly, it's happened more than once where I let them pass at exactly the same moment they ask to pass. Most of the rest of the time, they ask to pass as soon as they ride up behind me, but are respectful and patient about it, and I'll acknowledge their request and tell them I'll let them pass at a better spot. The slower rider has no responsibility/requirement/reasonable expectation to move over immediately. The faster rider has every responsibility/requirement/reasonable expectation to control their speed and ride safely and respectfully.

Someone hauling a$$ up behind me yelling to pass is going to get exactly the same treatment. I'm not going to jump out of my way because they're being a jerk. I'll move aside to let them pass when it's safe/prudent to do so and I'll communicate that to them if right now isn't that place. This is no different than someone yelling "STRAVA!" to get people to move because they're trying to set a PR or a KOM or something. That's even bad behavior in a race, so whatever makes people think it's acceptable on open, public trails is beyond me.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Same rules, just not everyone follows them.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

I find more cows, donkeys, and other creatures from this and other worlds on my rides than human beings, and then, they will get from me the very same kindness they give to me.


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## borisotto (Nov 14, 2018)

craigsj said:


> Why are people so invested in how fast other people ride? Just be courteous.


It goes both ways. When someone behaves like **** - I treat it like ****.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

b1rdie said:


> I find more cows, donkeys, and *other creatures from* this and *other worlds* on my rides than human beings, and then, they will get from me the very same kindness they give to me.


Whatcha talkin bout Willis?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Boulder Pilot said:


> Whatcha talkin bout Willis?


Trippin?

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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Really, you should probably not be riding turbo up crowded trails, even if you're fully legal. It's a jerk move, and it makes you stand out from the rest of the mountain bikers like a sore thumb. Sooner or later doing that is going to get noticed by enough people that they'll want to drop the ban hammer.

So, and this is IMO - don't exceed the speed a normal fast person would climb, if you're on a trail with many other people. If not crowded, get your braap on and hit it as fast as you want, but be super polite (of course) when you're passing. 

-Walt


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

b1rdie said:


> I find more cows, donkeys, and other creatures from this and other worlds on my rides than human beings, and then, they will get from me the very same kindness they give to me.


I wanna ride with you.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

Be my gest!
I intend to start guiding riders around the area next year after retirering, the ebike opened this possibility to me, if you come to Brazil just let me know.
And I also travel a lot around the world, so let's arrange it


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Phillbo said:


> I have no problem getting passed when climbing (I'm slow and I know it) but this guy was on my ass in a very tight and techy spot. It only pissed me off because he was pushing for me to stop and let him by and then I realized he probably would not have caught me in that section if not for his motor.
> 
> Do eBikes have the right away? I know as a MTBR I yield to Hikers, Horses and uphill traffic. Do I yield to motos now?


I think the optimal thing to do would be to direct them through the nearest bypass that runs through some cholla. That way they have a faster route past you.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

For me it is the golden rule.
Treat others the way ... ...
If in a gym we share but there is a bit of first advantage.
I would not yell because i am being slowed so in a sense that person was wrong.(IMHO)
On my bike i yell but generaly it is for safety. Without a car my life is at risk but often i sign or whistle to let people know they are not alone it makes everyone safer.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

craigsj said:


> eMTB riders do not need to limit themselves to what other cyclists approve of. Certainly be courteous, but don't apologize for the bike you ride and don't worry about others having their feelings hurt by you riding in a way they cannot, so long as it is safe.


If the goal is to be treated like normal bikes, act like a normal bike. I guess that was my basic point.

-Walt


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

craigsj said:


> eMTB riders do not need to limit themselves to what other cyclists approve of. Certainly be courteous, but don't apologize for the bike you ride and don't worry about others having their feelings hurt by you riding in a way they cannot, so long as it is safe.


And therein lies the biggest problem of all.

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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

craigsj said:


> e-bikes are normal bikes. The inherent bias that says that other riders get to say what and how you ride needs to end. Trails are for everyone's use.


So, do you truly see no difference? Then why buy an ebike? Your disingenuous behavior is frustrating.

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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

How do we know the following rider was 'yelling' and not making himself heard from a distance as he was closing the gap, speaking loudly from the distance. Perceived as yelling.

The thread is about e-bike dislike and somewhat over-embellished. In my Opinion.

None of us were there to witness the 'yelling' to know how much anger this other rider had that day, at that moment. Nobody was there to experience how aggressive the pass was made. All we know is somebody is calling a faster rider a douche.

I'm not suggesting either person is more correct than the other. It just sounds totally like this is an e-bike hate rant thread.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

Not an eBike rant. I did not even know he was on an eBike until after I stepped off the trail to let him by... Thats when I realized he was a douche. 

Put it this way, he was being aggressive enough that I was concerned I was in the wrong and stepped off to let him go.... 

I guess there is a bit of hate in my post...eBikers are obviously becoming the climbing STRAVAholes.... This guy was. 

He left me with a bad impression... Not say all eBikers are like that but just saying....


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

b1rdie said:


> I find more cows, donkeys, and other creatures from this and other worlds on my rides than human beings, and then, they will get from me the very same kindness they give to me.


 The sheep have moved in, for the next two weeks my trail will be trashed. Today, not knowing they were up there, I got in a situation where I had them on both sides of me, and I just gave it up when they started running out from the brush and almost running me over. Plus i don't want to make the herders job any tough then it already is.

If I was thinking, I would have taken a video. I got a couple still shots, but I think I am banned from posting any pictures here, though I can obviously post. Any one know if that possible here? I know how to post pics here, but no more I guess, something changed.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm starting to think craigsj is an ebike hater and is doing all he can to turn everyone against them.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I guess since this is an e-bike sub-category I'll add this thought.


Hopefully it will not take too long for e-bike riders to practice awareness of their surroundings.

This post is similar in nature in that the e-bike rider closed the gap so fast that he is not putting other people in harms way by making unsafe passes on the trail. In this case, and experienced rider. Consider if the faster rider yelled out, scaring an inexperienced rider causing the rider to tip over or crash. 
I think as e-bike popularity increases, those riders will understand they will need to be a little more aware of how quickly they ride up on others who can't quite understand they are in the way of the faster rider since a second ago they were "way back there".

I'm sure it will get sorted out in time, just like the rest of the changes we go through in life.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Phillbo said:


> Not an eBike rant. I did not even know he was on an eBike until after I stepped off the trail to let him by... Thats when I realized he was a douche.
> 
> Put it this way, he was being aggressive enough that I was concerned I was in the wrong and stepped off to let him go....
> 
> ...


STRAVAholes! Them's fight'n words. Sooner or later someone was bound to be offended by a narcissistic eBiker.

I hope that I will still be able to ride South Mountain for a while and help to build a good record for eBikes; I mostly ride at a normal-enough mountain bike pace so that I get passed more often than I pass; probably a few guys get to go home to their wives and brag about how they caught up to an eBike.

I do see your point though, if we let the motors bring out our collective inner jerk it's game over.

I've ridden the Boulders OHV area but it's a heck of a long ways away and the trails are long enough and steep enough and sandy so not well-suited to eBikes; my 2/3 horsepower motor plus everything I could put into the pedals barely got me up the steepest hills and the course sand washes sucked my battery dry in under two hours.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

b1rdie said:


> Be my gest!
> I intend to start guiding riders around the area next year after retirering, the ebike opened this possibility to me, if you come to Brazil just let me know.
> And I also travel a lot around the world, so let's arrange it


Hey bro, you bring whatever it is that allows you to "*find* more cows, donkeys, and *other creatures from* this and *other worlds* on my rides than human beings"

and you have a place to stay if you ever come to San Diego.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Forest Rider said:


> I guess since this is an e-bike sub-category I'll add this thought.
> Hopefully it will not take too long for e-bike riders to practice awareness of their surroundings.
> I am beginning to understand how fast and how much of a hazard they present.
> Similar to a motorcycle on the open road, the rider must be aware of surroundings because those around them aren't typically able to comprehend the speed the bike carries.


From the (limited) Strava data I've seen, a fit XC trainer on a 20-24 lb bike is just as fast as one of us on an e-bike. Most of the XC racers on normal lightweight bikes in my area average 10-11 mph on dirt, including climbing large hills and 1000-3000 ft. mountains. There is hardly any data on Strava for e-bike segments, but from what I've seen and personally done, an expert or pro on a normal bike is just as fast offroad. On pavement, yes, I can blow a road biker away uphill because I simply ramp up past 400 watts. But not on dirt. I often only average 4-5 mph up steeper stuff and the guys on Levos in the area may eke out 8 mph up steeper stuff at best. E-bikes are NOT dirt bikes that just casually glide up 12% inclines at 15 mph, you just cannot do that on any bicycle because of all the loose rocks and water erosion ruts when it gets steep. Adding electric power to a bicycle does not turn water into wine on 12% grades with real obstacles. You have to have a real dirt bike with their tires, suspension and power to do that fast. Dirt bikes have on average 40-80 times the power of e-bikes. And weigh only 4-5 times as much. That's 8x to 20x higher power to weight ratio, a whole order of magnitude higher. Think about that for a minute.

As far as safety is concerned, OK, same rider weight with a 50 lb bike crashing into someone else vs. with a 20-24 lb bike, yes, there may be more damage. But the speed on dirt is not the issue, don't assume everyone on an e-bike is blowing away XC racers because they are not.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

Climbing, descending, riding on a mountain bike, a horse, an electric motorized bike, running, hiking, walking your dog, etiquette is Don't be a Dick. Treat people as you want to be treated. 

Many areas have posted signs asking that all trail users yield to equestrians and mountain bikers yield to all other trail users. If electric motorized bikes are allowed on the trails, it should be stated on the signage whether they are grouped with mountain bikes for regulation purposes or if any electric motorized bike specific regulations apply.

As far as climbing, in my area the bear bell is an appreciated tool to help minimize trail user conflicts. Yelling at people as you approach them from behind may be effective and an appreciated behavior elsewhere. I have no problem reminding people they are on a multi-use trail and that behavior that endangers other will not be tolerated. I've never had a negative encounter with an electric motorized bike rider on legal trails. I've had numerous issue with mountain bikers on legal trails. Again, very simple, Don't be a Dick.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

If you are slow, here it is again,
read post # 41 5 more times.
I see that subhuman category on all forms.
Last 19 years without a car, not taking the bus, i learned to survive
and so called humans puting my life at risk are many.
Walkers, joggers with both ears plugged on loud music
walking a small dog on a 33 feet leash on a cyclist path
roadies taking a pic with a cellphone than walking across the cycling path only looking at their friend
people in car leaving the mall, grocery store only looking 1 side and gunning it ready to run over me
the ones that pass you to turn 1/2 second later
off course i expect everyone to have dangerous behavior
i must to survive
believe me they are on Ebikes
by design the speed lovers might be on an Ebike
they might be in their bubble like most people in the train
totally unaware of their surrondings

i have an Ebike to get to the trail
i enjoy riding it in the woods
it might not last
maybe the look alike will get us banned
the illegals look like the legals
my assist stops at 32km-20mph
others modify and go faster


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Forest Rider said:


> How do we know the following rider was 'yelling' and not making himself heard from a distance as he was closing the gap, speaking loudly from the distance. Perceived as yelling.
> 
> The thread is about e-bike dislike and somewhat over-embellished. In my Opinion.
> 
> ...


On the other hand, why is it so hard for you to believe the OP that the ebiker was a being a douche. Maybe you prefer pro ebike "rants"?


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

chazpat said:


> I also don't like it when I come up behind a rider and they pull over and stop to let me by rather than waiting a short time for a spot where it's a bit wider and slowing down while I pass as I feel like I disrupted their ride. Likewise, if someone comes up behind me, I tell them to come by when they have a chance and then look for a place to let them get by without me having to stop. I'm not going to stop for someone if I'm climbing where I can't restart.
> 
> When I'm on my ss, I'll fall back some if approaching another rider when approaching a steep climb so that I don't run up on them. I would not expect them to stop.


I love you. That is all.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

veloborealis said:


> On the other hand, why is it so hard for you to believe the OP that the ebiker was a being a douche. Maybe you prefer pro ebike "rants"?


I occasionally see douche behavior from mountain bikers. Unfortunately that's not a great defense of eBikes; most of us who ride eBikes used to or still do ride human-powered bikes. People here in the Phoenix area are starting to take mountain bike access for granted, and that could easily spill over into the eBike population. It takes a little more self-discipline to ride an eBike responsibly more of the time since fatigue and heat are less limiting.

I'm pretty sure that Phillbo is an eBike 'skeptic' to put it mildly, but I have no doubt that he was thrown off his groove by egregious behavior from an eBiker. Hopefully behavior towards hikers is better; I've noticed far more courtesy from mountain bikers when I'm walking than when I'm riding; we treat each other very badly on the trail.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Phillbo said:


> Not an eBike rant. I did not even know he was on an eBike until after I stepped off the trail to let him by... Thats when I realized he was a douche.
> 
> Put it this way, he was being aggressive enough that I was concerned I was in the wrong and stepped off to let him go....
> 
> ...


BFD. You got blown off the trail? First time? Ebike or not I'm sure almost all of us have had this happen. Stop your Ebike hate, in an ebike forum. A) Ride faster and get your slow butt up the hill, or B) jump on an emtb and ride the pace. Just saying...


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

craigsj said:


> e-bikes are normal bikes. The inherent bias that says that other riders get to say what and how you ride needs to end. Trails are for everyone's use.


Ummm....


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

33rd...your writings read like poetic stanzas.


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## borisotto (Nov 14, 2018)

craigsj said:


> Trails are for everyone's use.


Not everywhere, quite a few trails has clear "no motorized stuff allowed" rules.


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## borisotto (Nov 14, 2018)

Forest Rider said:


> It just sounds totally like this is an e-bike hate rant thread.


It's not about ebikes, its about morons riding these. Somehow it seems that % of morons riding ebikes is significantly higher then % of morons riding regular bikes.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

Chazpat "I also don't like it when I come up behind a rider and they pull over and stop to let me by rather than waiting a short time for a spot where it's a bit wider and slowing down while I pass as I feel like I disrupted their ride."

Many people, especially newer to MTB, dont like when people are riding behind them. It makes them uncomfortable, as if you are pushing them. Even though you aren't and totally relaxed about being behind them. 

To OP's question, i think any legal user has the "right" to pass you. trail runner, horse rider, faster biker, no limitations on who when it comes to etiquette. How they pass you, polite vs rude, that also comes down to the individual user not the mode of transportation. It also depends on the trail. Is it about to flatten out a bit, is there a turn off area just ahead, is it about to go downhill where you would just pass the person that is about to pass you? Lots of items go into etiquette, including how you handle passing others or being passed. 
For me, i like my bell. If i encounter a person on a horse, i'm more verbal to acknowledge i see them. Most prefer that you keep talking because it helps keep their horse calm.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Phillbo said:


> I was climbing my local trail this morning when a guy comes up on my ass and is yelling at me to let him pass.... I'm in my zone and don't want to stop but he was being such a douche I just want to get rid of him so I pull off and stopped.... He was full throttle on an eBike and I'm on a non pedal assist. Does he have the right away? I'm not sure of the rule here....


After reading through this entire thread and then coming back up to read the OP I think the passing rider should be calm and wait for a safe place to pass. This is the case if the faster rider is pedaling without the assistance of a motor, or with the assistance of a motor.

This is not by default a eBike only issue, but it is one we will see more of as more and more eBikes are sold. As someone else stated it might take some time for the newbies in the eBike world to realize that being faster does NOT give them right of way when climbing.

The same trail etiquette applies to downhill riding, why would it be different for uphill riding.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

hikerdave said:


> I occasionally see douche behavior from mountain bikers. Unfortunately that's not a great defense of eBikes; most of us who ride eBikes used to or still do ride human-powered bikes. People here in the Phoenix area are starting to take mountain bike access for granted, and that could easily spill over into the eBike population. It takes a little more self-discipline to ride an eBike responsibly more of the time since fatigue and heat are less limiting.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Phillbo is an eBike 'skeptic' to put it mildly, but I have no doubt that he was thrown off his groove by egregious behavior from an eBiker. Hopefully behavior towards hikers is better; I've noticed far more courtesy from mountain bikers when I'm walking than when I'm riding; we treat each other very badly on the trail.


Agree, largely, with everything you said. I don't ride in Phoenix often, but I have to say here in Preskitt, trail users of all groups are pretty courteous. The bad apples are few and really stand out. I don't run into many ebikers on the trails, as the best trails are on federal land and off limits, so I don't have an opinion about their trail manners. The fact that I don't see them speaks well of their manners, I suppose.

You can call me another ebike skeptic.


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## borisotto (Nov 14, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Are you a moron ebike rider?


Neither moron nor ebike rider yet. But in 20 years - who knows, could be both. 

Any other questions?


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Phillbo said:


> I was climbing my local trail this morning when a guy comes up on my ass and is yelling at me to let him pass.... I'm in my zone and don't want to stop but he was being such a douche I just want to get rid of him so I pull off and stopped.... He was full throttle on an eBike and I'm on a non pedal assist. Does he have the right away? I'm not sure of the rule here....


Yeah, they have the right of way. Imagine if it was Courtney Kate asking to pass up a hill... it's the same question regardless of what bike they're on. Just move over as soon as you have the option


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

Boulder Pilot said:


> Hey bro, you bring whatever it is that allows you to "*find* more cows, donkeys, and *other creatures from* this and *other worlds* on my rides than human beings"
> 
> and you have a place to stay if you ever come to San Diego.


Thanks bro! I would love to go ride in california again, are you from Boulder CO?, I have friends there, we made a trip in 2015 from Boulder to Santa Monica, riding trails of Grand Junction, Fruita, Gooseberry mesa, Moab, Vegas...
I don't even care if ebikes are legal in California, since weed is, its fine for me 
Lets seek creatures through the forests of north Cali, maybe we smell a blooming guerrilla crop over there


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Happened to me (for the first time) just 2 weeks ago. Except rider behind me was not yelling or even asking to pass, just on my ass quickly out of nowhere. I kept riding and moved to the side when the trail widened and gave him a quick wave to my left side. He was gone if a few pedal strokes. I'll be damned if I'm stopping or dismounted for ebikes or really any rider...race or not ( I don't race). If someone want's to pass it's their job to find an appropriate place, (and for me to be courteous but not subservient), but most importantly neither rider needs to be prick about the whole thing. 

Like I said, no reason to dismount or stop, just look for a good place to let another rider by as soon as possible. If it's going to be minutes and not seconds then I'd have a different plan and likely go way off trail if needed just to get a tailgater of my back...I HATE riding with someone creeping behind me, lol.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

Klurejr said:


> After reading through this entire thread and then coming back up to read the OP I think the passing rider should be calm and wait for a safe place to pass. This is the case if the faster rider is pedaling without the assistance of a motor, or with the assistance of a motor.
> 
> This is not by default a eBike only issue, but it is one we will see more of as more and more eBikes are sold. As someone else stated it might take some time for the newbies in the eBike world to realize that being faster does NOT give them right of way when climbing.
> 
> The same trail etiquette applies to downhill riding, why would it be different for uphill riding.


Thisˆˆˆ
100% agreed. 
Someone that yells at me from behind will get a get it back into his ears when passing by my side.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Phillbo said:


> I was climbing my local trail this morning when a guy comes up on my ass and is yelling at me to let him pass.... I'm in my zone and don't want to stop but he was being such a douche I just want to get rid of him so I pull off and stopped.... He was full throttle on an eBike and I'm on a non pedal assist. Does he have the right away? I'm not sure of the rule here....


hell NO. keep riding ...dingledorf on the e-bike can suck wind and wait for a wide spot to pass


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

AC/BC said:


> Yeah, they have the right of way. Imagine if it was Courtney Kate asking to pass up a hill... it's the same question regardless of what bike they're on. Just move over as soon as you have the option


"Maintaining a fast speed on a bicycle should not be the priority for a bicycle rider on a public trail."

A comment from a very good discussion on trail etiquitte from the REI blog here:

https://www.rei.com/blog/hike/trail-etiquette-who-has-the-right-of-way

I've noticed that the fast riders come out on Sunday evenings after the hikers have all gone home; if you like to ride fast on the trail, that's the best time.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

AC/BC said:


> Yeah, they have the right of way. Imagine if it was Courtney Kate asking to pass up a hill... it's the same question regardless of what bike they're on. Just move over as soon as you have the option


a) Its Kate Courtney
b) Thats an idiotic comment. NO ONE has the right away when going the same direction on MTBs. They are public trails for the public. Everyone has just as much right to be on the trail as anyone else. The described person is an A-hole... and you support them. If someone does that to me, they are going off the trail.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

eatdrinkride said:


> Happened to me (for the first time) just 2 weeks ago. Except rider behind me was not yelling or even asking to pass, just on my ass quickly out of nowhere. I kept riding and moved to the side when the trail widened and gave him a quick wave to my left side. He was gone if a few pedal strokes. I'll be damned if I'm stopping or dismounted for ebikes or really any rider...race or not ( I don't race). If someone want's to pass it's their job to find an appropriate place, (and for me to be courteous but not subservient), but most importantly neither rider needs to be prick about the whole thing.
> 
> Like I said, no reason to dismount or stop, just look for a good place to let another rider by as soon as possible. If it's going to be minutes and not seconds then I'd have a different plan and likely go way off trail if needed just to get a tailgater of my back...I HATE riding with someone creeping behind me, lol.


It's a good thing you do not race or you'd probably end up having an accident. Oops.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

Let me say it like this: In San Diego, trail access is a privilege, regardless your preferred mode of transportation. If this is not how it works in your area, consider yourself very lucky and feel free to move on to a more meaningful thread, like Piccard asking which way to lace his mountain biking shoes, laces over the top or under to start?

If you live in an area where trail access is a privilege, consider yourself an ambassador of your trail user group. No, I do not mean that this is an option, like I'm giving you a choice. You ARE an ambassador, because attached with that trail access privilege comes the fact that you are a member of a trail user group, so while you are enjoying the privilege you are REPRESENTING your trail user group. It does not matter if you agree with this, it is not up for debate. This is the viewpoint of Land Managers that are responsible for managing the trails.

Etiquette alone does not protect trail access. For every 2,734 positive mountain biker or electric motorized bike rider with another trail user group, it is the one negative encounter that the land managers hear about via in person, email, phone call etc. 

This is where advocacy comes into the picture. If you were a land manager responsible for managing and protecting 100's, 1000's, 10'000's acres, or square miles, and you kept receiving a **** ton of complaints on a trail user group abusing their privilege, what do you think you would do? If there is a solid relationship in place, the land manager contacts the local advocacy group and dialog is open to identify if there is a real issue(s) and then how to resolve the issue.

Yesterday I had a conversation with land managers, electric motorized bike access came up. I think I am going to start another thread, because the information they shared deserves an uncluttered forum. 

I will say this: manufacturers and their strategy based upon greed combined with their underestimating and insulting attitude of land managers, thinking that flooding the market with product will force land managers into submission because "electric motorized bikes are here, you have no choice" , um, let me just say no one I know enjoys being disrespected. Again, as stated at the top of this post, if the situation in your area is not as described in mine, consider yourself fortunate and enjoy yourself.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Forest Rider said:


> It's a good thing you do not race or you'd probably end up having an accident. Oops.


Even during a race, it has to be a safe spot to pass.


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## borisotto (Nov 14, 2018)

hikerdave said:


> I've noticed that the fast riders come out on Sunday evenings after the hikers have all gone home; if you like to ride fast on the trail, that's the best time.


Other option is to ride really early, sometimes we start around 6am. This is much better when it is really hot 'cause everything cools off over night.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Crankout said:


> Even during a race, it has to be a safe spot to pass.


yup

faster racer on me bum ?, they say 'track' I say pass me [left or right] and about [how many feet until I do pull over] works great

if I am really bogged down I say the same thing [which side and how long until I move] but have more urgency for me to stop...because if I'm gassed I'm gassed. if I am still cranking though and the speed differential is not too great... I'll seek a little better spot further up if the current spot is too chundery

works great....in races.

in public, and pretenduros, f-them I will pull over soon, just not on demand.

and if e-bike on trails where e-bikes are banned, I hold my ground. same with atv or moto...if you're riding dirty and I'm pedaling, my trail. atv and motos where this occurred have all 'gotten it' and left me alone 'cuz they know they are poaching

if you are riding legal and i am in the way, I'll pull over when safe.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

I own a Kenevo Expert. I climb fireroads or roads whenever possible, although E-biking probably consists of only about 10% of my riding these days. Will probably increase to 25% after the bike park season is over.

I firmly believe an e-bike has zero right-of-way on any sort of climb. It's so easy to start/stop, even on the steeps, that there's really no excuse for an e-biker to interfere with someone else's riding. I believe this is especially true on single track climbs, which e-bikers should generally try to avoid anyway.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

> It's a good thing you do not race or you'd probably end up having an accident. Oops.


As stated I don't race so maybe I don't understand the race etiquette. But it would seem logical to laymen like me that a faster rider can pass safely when the opportunity arises, not on demand. I mean everyone is racing so there has to be some give and take, no? But hey, a-holes are a-holes, whether racing or not. Do you fit in to this category? Just wondering since you mention "accidentally" having an accident with someone.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I agree with any passing must be done safely. Comment was made that he WOULD NOT allow a pass but rather make the person behind figure it out. That isn't safe, and is rude.

I just raced a few weeks ago. I asked to pass when it was safe. Sometimes it took 30 seconds or whatever. All good. I never once forced a pass because rider up front disallowed it. I did ask one rider if I could pass when it was safe. He instantly stopped, I was in the tall weeds and rock (to not hit him) then had a dip (small crossing) I was unprepared for and nearly slowed his flow as a result of poor gear selection since we suddenly stopped.

For the record, I've only race one official race, and 3 small little races where most everybody was spread out. In those races I was passed repeatedly. Even when a rider back mentioned their presence, I'd wait until it was safe. Or I'd answer them saying 'in a moment" or whatever was proper to make the safe pace occur.


In your case (above), saying that you flat out will not allow a pass, there will be an angry person that will force the pass regardless of condition. You, the slower and less skilled rider (for that section) may end up hitting a rock or root. Stumbling, or whatever as you and faster rider are trying to use the same piece of single track.


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## squashyo (Oct 28, 2003)

EricTheDood said:


> I firmly believe an e-bike has zero right-of-way on any sort of climb. It's so easy to start/stop, even on the steeps, that there's really no excuse for an e-biker to interfere with someone else's riding. I believe this is especially true on single track climbs, which e-bikers should generally try to avoid anyway.


I'm with you brother (except for the single track part). Ebikes are dessert rides and we are acclimating into the scene. We should be kissing some ass out there if I'm being honest.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Kind of off topic and no ebikes involved, but I was approaching a big descent on a narrow twisty trail when riding this evening when another rider came up on me. I'm not the fastest descender and I was on my rigid SS, so even slower descending. I told him to come on by when he had a chance, then almost immediately hit a wider section and hugged one side; he came by with a "thanks". I started cutting back over only to discover there was a second rider behind him coming by, which surprised me.

These were experienced riders. "One more" or similar would have been a really good idea.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2019)

Crankout said:


> Even during a race, it has to be a safe spot to pass.


Racing is a little different; it's a closed course, and everyone is competing. I've had to force a pass or two, when riders would refuse to let me by...or worse yet, block me.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

It's always weird being the 'other guy'. I've yelled out "one more" (me) a few times. It sort of startles the rider as they assumed there was just the one. Especially on the tighter trail I think, they need to quickly get back to the main line and out of the chunk or weeds or whatever. When I pass I usually try to take the rough line, I feel I am most deserving to take the dirty line and leave the cleaner section to the person allowing the pass.

When I'd ride road bike, the passes are usually faster, cleaner and quicker. I would always announce, when I'd pass, how many behind me. Often it was my girl friend following and I'd say "it's just the two of us". Pretty easy as you're side-by-side to the stranger for long enough to form words that are understandable since we aren't huffing and puffing hunched over the bars.


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