# Headaches hours after max heart rate. What to do?



## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Quick edit first off: I've already seen a doctor, and a neurologist, and had a "clear" mri related to migraines. None of that has resolved the issue, so I'm hoping the mtbr community has some ideas. No, I wouldn't ask a bunch of strangers about a medical issue until I'd exhausted what the medical folks have to offer... That said, Does anyone have experience resolving headaches that manifest the afternoon after, or day after hard rides? I noticed a correlation btwn max exertion, max HR, and headaches forming 6-24 hours afterwards. I'm 45, max hr about 185, and I enjoy working hard when riding. I'm probably 20 lbs over "race weight". My doc is an endurance athlete and told me to get more electrolytes, but that didn't affect the problem. Does the problem subside with additional fitness? Or has somebody with a similar situation found another solution? Thanks in advance, and no I don't want to ride a motorbike instead, thank you very much


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I’m no doc, but from a common sense perspective, I would treat this as a warning sign and ratchet things back a bit before it’s too late. 

Maybe get a new doc too.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

an MRA or CRA scan should be in yer immediate future



> get more electrolyes, that didn't affect the problem.>


 OK so what did you take and how did you take whatever electrolytes ?

at any rate headaches are a huge warning sign 
-------------------------------------


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sure sounds like a hydration issue. I'd try drinking more before, during and after hard rides and see how that goes


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> an MRA or CRA scan should be in yer immediate future
> 
> 
> OK so what did you take and how did you take whatever electrolytes ?
> ...




Really? I thought headaches were common when dehydrated.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Really? I thought headaches were common when dehydrated.


well, yeah. that too
I wasn't thinking along those lines. 
[last time I was that dry it was 1972 and it wasn't on a bike]



I was thinking age, and aneurysms


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

If it’s been a while since I last put out serious effort, I can get headaches afterwards. It’s been that way since high school. 

Like, the first day of soccer tryouts after a season off, the first pick up game with buddies in a month or so, first ride of the season, that sort of stuff. 

I’ve never had that sort of headache happen after other max HR workouts once I’m in shape though. Assuming I was properly hydrated.


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## ksm (Sep 25, 2020)

Go. see. a. physician.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> well, yeah. that too
> I wasn't thinking along those lines.
> [last time I was that dry it was 1972 and it wasn't on a bike]
> 
> ...




Huh, still happens to me all the time. I'll be laying in bed with a headache and think "oh yeah, long hard ride today, next time drink more!"

Truth is around here it can be nearly impossible to drink enough, I've drank 5 bottles of water during a ride and still come home 5 pounds lighter!

I'm one to go after the simple things before going to dark places like aneurysms.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I'll get a headache after a hard ride fairly often. Especially in the heat. Couple of ibuprofen fixes it. Never carries over to the next day though. 

I find that my fitness level, temperature, and electrolyte consumption during the ride, all play a part. 

Drinking electrolytes during the ride helps me a lot, but doesn't always stop it.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

I get migraines the evening of a hard ride or hike. Not hydration related, seems to be something with blood pressure. I get them a lot, and am working with a neurologist, but they don't seem to know much about the cause; she just tries different drugs on me to see what works. Good luck.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Ok thanks all. I'll answer a few questions then ask a few: For electrolytes I've used Nuun tablets but didn't like the fake taste, so switched to Liteshow which tastes like old seawater (#1 ingredient actually lol) and that seems to work really well. I drink a lot of water and electrolytes but I'll step it up and see what happens. I agree sometimes you just can't take in enough. I ride at 7000-9000 ft and ride pretty hard uphill (for me) so that doesn't help. I also usually drink Hammer Recoverite after significant rides, plus add some magnesium powder to water. Any recovery/electrolyte product recommendations? A couple of you said headaches were a "warning sign". Warning of what? Aneurysm? That I've had one or might have one in the future? So you're thinking a possible vascular issue rather than a heart issue? Or both?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Huh, still happens to me all the time. I'll be laying in bed with a headache and think "oh yeah, long hard ride today, next time drink more!"


Me too. A lack of pre-hydration is usually the culprit for me.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

I should have added that my BP does go up during recovery, but I thought that was normal. During normal times it's in the "green" range (maybe 110/70) but during recovery it can be higher like 135/85. The weird thing is that hydration increases bp, so there's that weird dynamic in the mix. I have had migraines manifest as part of the headache sometimes, and only sumatriptan will fix it (aka imitrex).


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

for me, electrolyte-related headaches don't wait until the next day (though things like cramps might). they come on hard, fast, and right in the middle of the activity. I take Hammer capsules (sometimes other brands) to keep those from occurring (and they work), as I simply don't like the drink mixes as a whole.

no doubt there's lots of individual variation here.

and also, heart or vascular issues could definitely be a potential. I think electrolyte imbalance is a common enough cause that trying that out is worth the effort. but if that doesn't address it then I agree a visit to the doctor is in order.


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## Eno Esool (Mar 30, 2021)

It could be anything from muscle tension to a aneursym....but what do I know.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

Hydration issue. Living in the desert and riding in the heat, this can happen easily. Up your fluid intake before, during and after rides. Don’t forget to up electrolytes in a relative manner.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

I'm a doctor, an eye doc, not a primary care doc, but I have no idea what is causing the headaches. Neither does anyone else on this or any other forum. Do not seek medical advice on a forum. Even though someone else might have similar symptoms, it does not mean that it is due to the same causative factor. Seek competent medical advice from a physician who can actually examine you and at the very least rule out any serious underlying medical issue that needs attention. If your primary care doctor does not know what it causing it and has taken all of the necessary steps to rule out problems, you might want to seek a second opinion. It will help him/her to diagnose it correctly if the symptoms were presenting while in the office. IF it happens every time, try to time your office visit to your PCP for when you are experiencing the problem. It sounds like you are hydrating fairly well and getting electrolytes adequately too, but a urinalysis the day after a hard ride will tell your doc a lot about that. Don't let it go. It does not sound normal to me.


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## Eno Esool (Mar 30, 2021)

I am a neurologist and I agree with JKA....^^^

Go see a doctor!


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

I did get an MRI for migraines a few months ago and there was no sign of any vascular cause, which was great news. Sometimes those migraines were triggered by the basic headaches after intense exercise. Basically I'm interested in knowing whether that's a common thing, and it sounds like dehydration-related headaches are pretty common. So I'm going to focus on hydration and electrolyte replacement. Anyone have favorite electrolyte supplements?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I really like the Nunn electrolyte tablets.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My wife gets headaches a lot, they always seem to come on just before bed, wierd, I don’t think it’s exercise induced 🤣

To the OP, did you really post a serious health question to a bunch of cubicle jockeys on the internet?

People are so dumb, I’m amazed we are able to live long enough to overpopulate the world.


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## netaron (12 mo ago)

How long has this been going on? If it's most of your life, than they may be "excercise induced headache/migraines," they are a thing as others have noted. I've had them since I was a teenager, they can get so bad that it's basically debilitating especially after max exertion in the sun. I've been taking 200-400 milgrams of ibuprofen 60min before I run long distance or ride in the heat as the only cure so far.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Nurse Ben said:


> My wife gets headaches a lot, they always seem to come on just before bed, wierd, I don’t think it’s exercise induced 🤣
> 
> To the OP, did you really post a serious health question to a bunch of cubicle jockeys on the internet?
> 
> People are so dumb, I’m amazed we are able to live long enough to overpopulate the world.


I'm the OP and I've talked to my doctor, seen a neurologist, and had an mri. None of that helped solve the issue. So I decided it wouldn't hurt to ask a bunch of people who do the same exercise I do, in hopes that you all had some ideas. I should have explained that I'd exhausted my medical options first.


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## A2PM (May 20, 2021)

I'm surprised there's been no mention of allergies as a possibility, most likely combined with hydration or other malady. My allergies have evolved and changed as I have gotten older to where spring time allergies impact me more than in the past. The result has been sinus headaches, often after riding. I figured being outdoors for an extended period was the main reason (mold/pollen exposure) but maybe it is hydration and/or something more serious. Anyhow, good luck figuring it out.

Headaches suck.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

AEyogi said:


> I get migraines the evening of a hard ride or hike. Not hydration related, seems to be something with blood pressure. I get them a lot, and am working with a neurologist, but they don't seem to know much about the cause; she just tries different drugs on me to see what works. Good luck.


This sounds like the same issue I have, thanks. Too bad there does not seem to be a medical "solution" for the problem.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

netaron said:


> How long has this been going on? If it's most of your life, than they may be "excercise induced headache/migraines," they are a thing as others have noted. I've had them since I was a teenager, they can get so bad that it's basically debilitating especially after max exertion in the sun. I've been taking 200-400 milgrams of ibuprofen 60min before I run long distance or ride in the heat as the only cure so far.


Now this is very helpful, since I didn't know that what you describe is a "thing". Unfortunately however the conclusion is the same: no solution aside from pain management with nsaids. Thank you. Not the solution I was looking for but if management is my only option that's good to know.


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## gastonbx (Oct 15, 2009)

Check your neck muscles and vertebrae, maybe some position induced either when riding or when not riding can generate that migraine similar pains.
Does the pain go away when you take something as ibuprofen or paracetamol?


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## LegionX (Mar 4, 2015)

MRI is different from an MRA. If you haven’t had an MRA, it maybe useful. I used to get migraine and cluster headaches after hard exercise, Allergies, diet (caffeine) contributed to the headaches. Had and MRA. Also found aneurysm which probably saved my life. It doesn’t hurt to check. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion as well. I hate going to doctors, but your body is telling you something is wrong. I used to get headaches from age 11 through 23 before getting it checked out. It may be a pain in the backside trying to track the cause down, but you and your family will be glad you did. 
Be diligent and persistent.
A little bit of advice from a stroke survivor.


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

A few years ago I was experiencing headaches a few hours after a ride, it wasn't happening all the of time so I just put up with it. After a particular serious event I self diagnosed by doing a google search by listing my symptoms, not the most scientific method I know. The most common answer was a non-celiac gluten sensitivity. I stopped eating Gluten and started a Vegan diet at the same time and I haven't had a problem since. You would be surprised how many ailments are diet related. My Sister developed MS in her late 50's and became part of a study that was using a Vegan diet to control MS and after 5 plus years She's had no problems. With my particular problem there were other symptoms that accompanied the headache such as fatigue, bloating and joint pain.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

gastonbx said:


> Check your neck muscles and vertebrae, maybe some position induced either when riding or when not riding can generate that migraine similar pains.
> Does the pain go away when you take something as ibuprofen or paracetamol?


This is me. 

Get a second opinion. Preferably a headache clinic at a tertiary healthcare system. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Since the doctors can't seem to find an answer, you might have to just do some experiments. Do a few days of moderate effort rather than max effort. See if you get headaches. If you still do, then it's not related to the max heart rate issue. It's something else. 

Besides, I'd say it's a good idea to dial back your riding intensity anyways. Even if you are trying to be fast, no coach would ever tell you that hitting your max HR every ride is a good idea. It's not good for health either. If you train with some intensity control, you can actually get fast without having to always hitting your max. Go about 90% of max at most and do lots of aerobic riding. Healthier and you will be faster long term.


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## Gym123 (Dec 4, 2021)

Smiles for miles said:


> I did get an MRI for migraines a few months ago and there was no sign of any vascular cause, which was great news. Sometimes those migraines were triggered by the basic headaches after intense exercise. Basically I'm interested in knowing whether that's a common thing, and it sounds like dehydration-related headaches are pretty common. So I'm going to focus on hydration and electrolyte replacement. Anyone have favorite electrolyte supplements?


Any nausea with the headache? That might indicate a problem, especially if your family has a history of strokes. Have you checked your BP after riding, over several hours? Is it on only one side?

Any knowledge I have of this comes from the experiences my parents had with their strokes.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

2nd opinions, as the other people here have mentioned. Just because you've exhausted the limits of the doctors you are seeing, doesn't mean you've exhausted the limits. The overwhelming majority of doctors I know have no qualms referring out if they can't figure something out.

Going to a sports medicine practice (not just a doctor who is also an athlete) will likely yield _way _more information on pretty much every angle. Also consider asking fellows who have had similar issues in your area who they've gone to. They will hopefully have facilities for stress/heart rate studies, if it only occurs during/after exertion.

To piggyback on what another poster mentioned earlier, you can't diagnose headaches over the internet; mine, for example, are set off by high allergen days, and are fine...unless I happen to have a high exertion activity for more than an hour. As others mentioned, blood pressure, dehydration, even blood sugar can set off headaches.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I also get headaches if I'm dehydrated.
And I get headaches if I have too much coffee, or when I don't have enough coffee. It's a fine line.
Being on an ibuprofen drip for all my other aches and pains seems to help, though.


Kidding aside, I think most people get enough sodium. Low sodium V8 juice has a bunch of potassium (1250mg/12 oz), which you need in surprisingly large amounts (>4000mg RDA, U.S.).
Also, if you're on a proton pump inhibitor, there is evidence that it will inhibit absorption of magnesium.
You've already coordinated with your doc, so if you add in anything (other than water), I'd do it one thing at a time and just touch base with your doc again. 
Do you drink a lot of tap water, or changed a water source? It's unlikely that's an issue but go to filtered or bottled water for a week and see if anything changes. Good luck.


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## epittman (Apr 4, 2021)

A GP telling you to get more electrolytes isn't a thorough work-up for new and unusual headaches. While dehydration is one thing, it could be many other things as well. Go see a physician, get assessed, and get referred to the appropriate specialist. If they're happy that nothing worrisome is going on then go chase electrolytes.


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## Mantramsagro (Jul 7, 2012)

d365 said:


> I'll get a headache after a hard ride fairly often. Especially in the heat. Couple of ibuprofen fixes it. Never carries over to the next day though.
> 
> I find that my fitness level, temperature, and electrolyte consumption during the ride, all play a part.
> 
> Drinking electrolytes during the ride helps me a lot, but doesn't always stop it.


My experience as well for the last ten years, especially in warmer weather when I tend to ride harder and longer. My doc tells me not to worry about it if it is not too extreme and goes away as it always does, but. do hydrate during the ride and after. Having a banana or too seems to help as well. My personal guess is that it is the muscles relaxing after being stressed during the ride.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

I get headaches the day after long rides if I only drink water. It has nothing to do with heart rate as I only get them on long efforts but not on short but high intensity efforts where I really max myself out. Electrolyte drinks during or immediately after have helped a lot (as well as food) and it almost never happens now, one time I had a lingering headache but no electrolyte stuff, went to the store and bought some Vitamin Water and after drinking it the headache went away.

Also migraines are migraines and not to be confused with general headaches. So if you are telling the doctor to check you for migraines then they might be looking for something else. Maybe you know the difference but so many people just call headaches migraines, if you arent getting blind spots or visual auras before the headache then its probably not a migraine.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

I agree with @J.B. Weld .
Had a bad habit of drinking too little even on hard long rides. 
I always had huge headaches afterwards. I drink much more now even if I don't feel thirsty.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Is there some objective way to tell whether you're fully hydrated? Seems like I'm hydrated, but maybe not. I learned that the "clear urine" test is actually flawed for athletes because one can drink too much water, when measured against electrolytes consumed. In that case urine is clear but it's only because you've washed out too many minerals and so the body can't actually retain enough water, since water needs to hold onto things like sodium. Somebody should invent a meter we can all wear....


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I've often heard racer people say that "hydration starts the day before". I don't know, I got nothin. I know being dehydrated, and then trying to cram a bunch of water right before you ride, doesn't work out great....


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## C.tonus (May 15, 2015)

I'm a doctor, and these are some guidelines for exercise-induced headache: Common sense dictates that you respect the signals your body is going through, slow down your exercise pace as you finish your investigation and diagnosis process, I hope everything goes well good for you! God bless you!

SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS
●Exercise headache is characterized by episodes of bilateral, pulsatile head pain that are brought on by, or occur only during or after, physical exercise. Headaches last five minutes to 48 hours, and may be prevented by avoidance of excessive physical exertion. (See 'Clinical features' above.)

●Because Valsalva maneuvers frequently occur in the context of many forms of physical exertion, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish primary cough headache from primary exercise headache. (See 'Distinguishing cough headache and exercise headache' above.)

●For patients with new or never-evaluated exercise headache, we recommend brain imaging and neurovascular studies to exclude structural and cerebrovascular causes, particularly subarachnoid hemorrhage, cerebral and cervical arterial dissection, and reversible cerebral vasoconstriction syndrome. (See 'Etiology'above and 'Evaluation' above.)

●We recommend an evaluation for coronary heart disease if the patient has cardiovascular risk factors. (See 'Etiology'above and 'Evaluation' above.)

●For patients who develop exercise headache predictably, we suggest treatment with indomethacin 25 to 150 mg per day, given as needed 30 to 60 minutes before activity/exercise (Grade 2C). Indomethacin can be used every day for patients whose headaches are activated on an almost daily basis. Alternative medications that may be effective for exercise headache are propranolol, naproxen, phenelzine, and ergonovine. (See 'Treatment' above.)


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

C.tonus said:


> I'm a doctor, and these are some guidelines for exercise-induced headache: Common sense dictates that you respect the signals your body is going through, slow down your exercise pace as you finish your investigation and diagnosis process, I hope everything goes well good for you! God bless you!
> 
> SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS
> ●Exercise headache is characterized by episodes of bilateral, pulsatile head pain that are brought on by, or occur only during or after, physical exercise. Headaches last five minutes to 48 hours, and may be prevented by avoidance of excessive physical exertion. (See 'Clinical features' above.)
> ...




Nothing about dehydration? I swear that's always been the case for mine. As mentioned on long, hard rides it's just hard for me to get enough water down.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Nothing about dehydration? I swear that's always been the case for mine. As mentioned on long, hard rides it's just hard for me to get enough water down.


It is for me too but I suspect that both of us may be in a slightly different category than the OP. Among other things, he said he is 20 pounds over race weight.

Why chance things? In my view he should start by cutting back the balls to the wall intensity until he gets things figured out. I literally know at least 3 people who have had heart attacks, strokes or both on the trail while under heavy exertion. Including our own Travis Bickle, aka Legbacon. RIP.


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## oab1 (Apr 18, 2018)

Agree dehydration makes the most sense. Once you get behind its not fixable in my experience. You're in for some level of discomfort, just a matter of degree at that point. I often wonder if that is because it becomes an electrolyte balance issue that water alone won't solve. 

See if it stands out to you more on hotter or longer days. For me it's most common after rides where I go longer than 3 hours. I don't notice how much I'm sweating on the bike sometimes because of the air drying effect. Seems to go away when fitness is better, so I think that is masking it to some extent.


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## Jasono2009 (11 mo ago)

To the OP:

I have had headaches on a nightly basis for the past 2 years. This negatively affects my sleep. Had brain image scanning (where many were stunned to learn I have a brain) and worked with a general physician who subsequently directed me to take two Tylenol PM each night. That helped but never helped solve the root cause.

Since then, I have noticed (1) a fair amount of Vitamin D, natural sun, really helps with this and (2) intense physical exertion actually dampens the nightly headaches. Opposite of your issue, from what I can tell. Odd.

Hope you find the issue and heal up.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mtnbkrmike said:


> It is for me too but I suspect that both of us may be in a slightly different category than the OP. Among other things, he said he is 20 pounds over race weight.
> 
> Why chance things? In my view he should start by cutting back the balls to the wall intensity until he gets things figured out. I literally know at least 3 people who have had heart attacks, strokes or both on the trail while under heavy exertion. Including our own Travis Bickle, aka Legbacon. RIP.



Yeah since none of us know the details I guess the default is to go see a specialist. I guess the mechanic in me always wants to go to the simplest and most logical solution before moving on. Not to compare a crappy bike with the human body. If it were me and headaches were a regular thing only after strenuous rides I think I'd try really hydrating and fueling well before the next one or 2 and if that didn't work then I might schedule an appointment.

Again though I'm only speaking for myself and relating my own experiences with dehydration headaches.

Also it seems most of you guys have a lot better insurance than I do, If I did book an appointment most likely I'd literally get the "take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning" line. Good luck op!


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## gastonbx (Oct 15, 2009)

C.tonus said:


> I'm a doctor, and these are some guidelines for exercise-induced headache: Common sense dictates that you respect the signals your body is going through, slow down your exercise pace as you finish your investigation and diagnosis process, I hope everything goes well good for you! God bless you!
> 
> SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS
> ●Exercise headache is characterized by episodes of bilateral, pulsatile head pain that are brought on by, or occur only during or after, physical exercise. Headaches last five minutes to 48 hours, and may be prevented by avoidance of excessive physical exertion. (See 'Clinical features' above.)
> ...


I have used naproxen for stress migraines and worked fine. I had to take the pill at the very first of the episode or would not work. But after a couple of years it did not work anymore.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Smiles for miles said:


> Quick edit first off: I've already seen a doctor, and a neurologist, and had a "clear" mri related to migraines. None of that has resolved the issue, so I'm hoping the mtbr community has some ideas. No, I wouldn't ask a bunch of strangers about a medical issue until I'd exhausted what the medical folks have to offer... That said, Does anyone have experience resolving headaches that manifest the afternoon after, or day after hard rides? I noticed a correlation btwn max exertion, max HR, and headaches forming 6-24 hours afterwards. I'm 45, max hr about 185, and I enjoy working hard when riding. I'm probably 20 lbs over "race weight". My doc is an endurance athlete and told me to get more electrolytes, but that didn't affect the problem. Does the problem subside with additional fitness? Or has somebody with a similar situation found another solution? Thanks in advance, and no I don't want to ride a motorbike instead, thank you very much


I'm not a doctor. The problem will probably subside with additional fitness - how much time are you spending exercising per week? I think you're probably experiencing free glucose exhaustion, and you need to consume a lot of sugar after your ride, like, 70-100g of sugars. That's 2-3 cokes, snickers bars, etc. I doubt it has to do with any physiological symptom and more to do with nutritional availability.

I'm interested in your fitness regimen, particularly. I'm a firm believer that around 4 hour per week of hard cardio, for almost everyone, most health issues tend to disappear.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

thomcom said:


> I'm not a doctor. The problem will probably subside with additional fitness - how much time are you spending exercising per week? I think you're probably experiencing free glucose exhaustion, and you need to consume a lot of sugar after your ride, like, 70-100g of sugars. That's 2-3 cokes, snickers bars, etc. I doubt it has to do with any physiological symptom and more to do with nutritional availability.
> 
> I'm interested in your fitness regimen, particularly. I'm a firm believer that around 4 hour per week of hard cardio, for almost everyone, most health issues tend to disappear.


I do 6-8 hrs a week currently, but by mid summer I'm usually at 20 hrs/week. I'll try your solution... Sounds delicious!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Smiles for miles said:


> I do 6-8 hrs a week currently, but by mid summer I'm usually at 20 hrs/week. I'll try your solution... Sounds delicious!


It's easy to test, anyway! I looked it up and a snickers bar only has 8g of sugar so go with the cokes or something else you research.  I'm jealous! Wish I got 20 hours of exercise per week!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

thomcom said:


> I'm jealous! Wish I got 20 hours of exercise per week!



I don't know, 20 hours a week on a bike starts to become a job, that's pro rider territory.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

20 hours of spinning a week? 
Really?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Lol @ some of these comments, like asking for people's experiences is being done IN PLACE of and not IN ADDITION TO getting all the medical help our system can offer. JFC people.

That said, headaches can also be caused by low blood sugar, ime and at the advice of pro athletes I have started to be much more careful about hydration AND carb intake. On hydration, it's too late if you're chugging a liter before the ride, it could be that your daily habits involve not staying hydrated enough, and this is more of an issue as you get older. I use Skratch Labs drink mix because it contains sugars and it's also very easy to drink. This is one of the most important things drink mixes can do for you, make it easier and more attractive to put down water. For me, Nuun does this just a little vs Skratch. The US military gives their troops drink mixes for exactly this reason, not only are the electrolytes important, the sugar mkaes you drink more and prevents dehydration while also giving you valuable calories. On calories, after the 1st hour try to take in at least 150 calories/hr via simple carbs like gels, chews, and drink mixes. No protein needed unless it's a long ride.

I've noticed a big improvements in the overall quality of my rides and recovery by being sure to hydrate and feed more ideally before and during the ride, and I also use Skratch recovery drink mix after the ride, this helps a lot too.


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## Eno Esool (Mar 30, 2021)

Smiles for miles said:


> I'm the OP and I've talked to my doctor, seen a neurologist, and had an mri. None of that helped solve the issue. So I decided it wouldn't hurt to ask a bunch of people who do the same exercise I do, in hopes that you all had some ideas. I should have explained that I'd exhausted my medical options first.


 If that is in fact the case and you do not have any evidence to suggest aneurysm or otherwise the most common cause of headache post exercise is actually tension. Tension headaches account for greater than 90% of all headaches. It may be your riding position or your position in the cockpit.


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## sfr4dr (Dec 24, 2004)

I can only speak for myself as someone who used to get fairly frequent headaches, not directly tied to riding though. Main culprits were lack of sleep, dehydration, heat, posture at work and alcohol (even just a drink or two once a week). Tied to those but more bike related were pre-ride calorie intake and lack of stretching. Without the stretching, I often have issues with my neck muscles after riding, which leads to headaches. I now usually ride for 15 minutes then stop to stretch (if riding solo) then continue my ride, often stretching once more at the next break, vista or top of a major climb. Also working on relaxing my posture while climbing has helped. It's easy to hold muscles under tension and not even notice you're doing it.

Also forgot to mention, it's good to log this type of thing to start to see patterns. Log the headaches and log if you take Advil or anything and why. Also helps to doctors you may be seeing.


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## Desert Dawdler (Jun 19, 2021)

Going to throw my two cents in since I’m in the (for once) useful position of being a sufferer of severe chronic migraines. You’ve gotten some good advice but I’m going to summarize and add to it.

More extensive testing needs to be done. I have both Hemiplegic Migraines and Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) caused by a connective tissue disorder (Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome). Basically my blood vessels are too stretchy, which allows blood to pool in my legs, affecting BP and causing migraines. The important part here is that I was being treated at the Mayo Clinic for THREE YEARS before anyone thought to test for POTS/EDS. Mayo is known for being pretty competent, and I’d had dozens of tests and imaging and labs leading up to that. Sometimes underlying issues are subtle; the more eyes you have checking you over, the better your odds of someone knowing how to connect your particular dots.

Migraines can present in a lot of different ways. You may or may not have an aura, sinus involvement, GI involvement, or a host of other symptoms that don’t even seem related. Overall though (according to my neurologist), migraines are a vascular problem and controlling the vasoconstriction/dilation is key.

Just as migraines present in different ways, they can be triggered by different things. I have personally had them triggered by lack of sleep, multiple foods (particularly high histamine foods), alcohol, dehydration, exercise, stress and so on. Finding all of your triggers takes time.

Finally addressing your original question, I too get migraines post ride although mine are typically 6-10 hours after. I’ve come up with several tactics to prevent them, and if I stick to my “rules” it usually works. Hopefully one of them helps you.

1) I actively monitor HR as I ride. If I go over 164bpm it’s 50/50 odds, if I get over 172 I always end up with a headache. It took a while to find my thresholds, and sometimes it’s frustrating to have to hold back, but it’s better than the alternative.

2) I always drink a bottle with a scoop and a half of Skratch electrolyte mix at least half an hour before I ride, and I never ride without a camelbak. If I’m racing it’s two bottles in the 90 minutes prior AND 1-2 packs of chews/gels AND the camelbak. Scratch isn’t cheap but it’s good stuff. Electrolytes and hydration make a big difference.

3) Try not to ride on an empty or full stomach. A big piece of cornbread is perfect for me.

4) Compression socks. I wear the 10 mmHg strength for riding, and save the 30 mmHg leg squeezers for afterward. Keeping those BP swings under control.

5) Long end-of-ride cool down. I usually do slow easy pedaling laps at the trailhead for 3-5 minutes to let my HR and BP gently come down before I ask my body to do a different activity.

Good luck, and I hope you’re able to figure this out.


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## soto (Jul 16, 2004)

I've been working to solve migraine issues for 25 years and have seen tons of specialists and tried tons of things. Below are some other tips not mentioned yet:

1. Good quality magnesium. Try remag liquid magnesium. For me makes a huge difference and much better than pill or powder magnesium
2. Riboflavin (b2), or a b complex every day. b2 is proven to help headaches a lot. 
3. Try lowering your overall inflammation. THIS IS HUGE AND MOST IMPORTANT!! For me this is all centered around diet. If I eat clean AF from dawn till 5pm and then have a healthy dinner, I get the best results. Tried lots of diets, for me that means raw food vegan till 5pm. Dinner is clean protein and healthy carbs/veg. Dairy and grains, even whole grains, produce the most inflammation for me - so I limit those. Experiment and see what works for you. I know others that do keto most of the day and get similar results. 

Unfortunately headaches/migraines are caused by so many possible things. Treat your body like your lab and experiment and see what works for you.


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## Zed_2601 (7 mo ago)

I've just read this thread with great interest as what OP posted is basically exactly what I suffer with and there is not much discussion around this. I could write a huge essay here but I'll try to stay somewhat concise.

And, because it will be brought up by people who apply their experiences to others too readily - yes I've talked to my doctor - actually I've talked to multiple doctors. I've looked at hydration, pre-ride nutrition, electrolytes, more caffeine, less caffeine, no caffeine - etc. This is something physical in my brain (I assume vascular).

I'm almost 47. I was pretty inactive as a younger person, sadly. About 11 years ago I started cycling to work which led to road cycling and finally to mountain biking once I'd actually developed the fitness to do the climbing. Chucked the road bike pretty much immediately when I tried MTB.

For the last about 4 years I struggled with headaches. I didn't immediately link the headaches and riding, because it's not necessarily right after a ride. I thought it was coffee. Then some sort of allergy. Saw lots of docs. Eventually I worked out it's all about my riding.

For me it's not usually a really painful headache but it's annoying and can sometimes last 36 hours+, usually starting about 6-8 hours after riding. It interferes with life in general - a constant mithering pain. I usually know right after a ride that it's going to happen though, now. I can feel "something" in the front of my head. Sometimes after very long hard efforts I get a migraine aura - a very serious migraine aura starting in the middle of my vision and over say 30 mins it expands into a ring. I don't get the ultra painful migraine headache though, thankfully. I assume this migraine type symptoms is related to other milder headache that is the main problem. It's definitely in the same front part of the head. When I get that aura at the start I can't see properly because wherever the focal point is is blurry I can only see with peripheral vision, then that reverses over time.

What I've worked out for sure now is that it's ALL about heart rate. If I ride gently and keep my heart rate in the 160s at the most this headache does not happen. If my heart rate spikes to 180+ (this is getting up close to max for me) then I will get the headache. I find it easy to spend quite a bit of time over 180 because I enjoy riding and I just get into it - it'd be quite normal for me to have 2-3 hour rides averaging ~170, which means a LOT of time at high heart rate because inevitably some time is lower.

The issue is I really can't ride my local trails without this heart rate spike. Doing a proper training program with intervals helps me keep the heart rate down a little but even so in the end I'm just not having much fun tootling about like that trying to focus on not exerting myself. What _might_ work is if I did a huge amount of base training - this could potentially bring the heart rate down a lot relative to power output. It's a maybe - it might not fix the issue. I haven't tried it. Getting lighter would help too, at least in terms of power-to-weight.

I have recently been spending time under a barbell - something I used to do a lot in my early 30s - and I'm finding the same thing. Heavy big compound exercises like squats cause the same headaches. They can spike it worse during the exercise too - searing pounding pain in the head with over my bodyweight still on my back is not fun.

All in all this has beaten me somewhat at this point. I'm not interested in huge road bike miles all the time just so I can (maybe) trail ride without it impacting my work and home life. I feel all this is saying "you're getting too old to abuse yourself like this". It's actually exactly what the last doc I talked to about this said. Find exercise that keeps the heart rate down.

Another thing to consider here is that maintaining high heart rate for longer periods of time is just not healthy. Athletes only do this on race day. Training programs that take the heart rate to these places only do so briefly and only once or at most twice a week. We aren't really built to do this and we're definitely not built to need this.

What is the solution? This will be exceedingly unpopular I know but - e-MTB is the answer. Long rides, fast rides, shuttle sessions - all on the trail - all with a capped heart rate. The only challenge with the eBike is keeping the heart rate in check on the descents. That's not a joke - it is a challenge, the faster you go the faster you need to rip that heavy bike from side to side, weight and unweight, etc.

Flame away.

Oh there is one other answer - find something else to do. Hiking maybe? Golf? But they're missing that critical adrenalin component aren't they...

Also - I can't entertain the idea of taking drugs before/after rides. It just doesn't sit well with me it's a band-aid approach. This is supposed to be something healthy.

Just hit the couch? Sad to say it, but it's likely healthier than popping a pill to ignore the pain of too high a heart rate, especially over the long term.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Zed_2601 said:


> What I've worked out for sure now is that it's ALL about heart rate. If I ride gently and keep my heart rate in the 160s at the most this headache does not happen. If my heart rate spikes to 180+ (this is getting up close to max for me) then I will get the headache. I find it easy to spend quite a bit of time over 180 because I enjoy riding and I just get into it - it'd be quite normal for me to have 2-3 hour rides averaging ~170, which means a LOT of time at high heart rate because inevitably some time is lower.



I don't know about your headache deal but if you're max hr truly is around 180 then what you're saying does not sound good at all. Averaging 170 should only happen occasionally on high priority race days and plenty of days should be spent averaging 120 or so. Maybe your hr monitor is broken.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Zed_2601 said:


> I've just read this thread with great interest as what OP posted is basically exactly what I suffer with and there is not much discussion around this. I could write a huge essay here but I'll try to stay somewhat concise.
> 
> And, because it will be brought up by people who apply their experiences to others too readily - yes I've talked to my doctor - actually I've talked to multiple doctors. I've looked at hydration, pre-ride nutrition, electrolytes, more caffeine, less caffeine, no caffeine - etc. This is something physical in my brain (I assume vascular).
> 
> ...


You don't need a wheelchair, I mean ebike, just yet  I've found a couple of things help since I posted the above a while ago: my headaches happened only when my blood pressure was in the "yellow zone", instead of my usual green zone. Get a cheap BP cuff from Amazon or whatever, and see if you have the same correlation. If yes, find the source of your increased BP. BP is usually higher after intense exercise, and mine was being pushed up further by a medication I was taking. Keeping my BP in the green eliminated 90% of my headaches. Next, magnesium. I know a lot of people think they have enough, or they have tried it, but I take about 200% USRDA of magnesium in the form of a powder mix called natural calm. It took me 2 months to slowly build up to that amount. START SMALL WITH MAGNESIUM OR IT WILL HAVE YOU RUNNING TO THE BATHROOM EVERY 3 MINUTES. Start with 1/10th of a teaspoon, and over time work your way up. Only when you get to at least 100% RDA (it says on the package) can you decide that magnesium does not help your headaches. I highly recommend that you try those two things: figure out if your BP is above the "green zone" and fix that if possible, plus also try working up to a large daily dose of magnesium. I take a tall heaping teaspoon of natural calm each day and it's improved my health more than any supplement I've ever taken. Good luck!!


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

Btw don't go down the rabbit hole of "best magnesium supplements"... I tried a bunch and the powder I mentioned works very well for me. Also I have realized that most people don't peg their heart rate the way that you and I do/did. I've learned that you don't need to max your HR to go fast. Takes a little getting used to, but you can go just as fast with a little mental management, and that will probably result in a better overall performance anyway. I think frequent max HR like you I have done is a vestige of extreme exercising as a kid. It's not needed, and probably not healthy.


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## Zed_2601 (7 mo ago)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't know about your headache deal but if you're max hr truly is around 180 then what you're saying does not sound good at all. Averaging 170 should only happen occasionally on high priority race days and plenty of days should be spent averaging 120 or so. Maybe your hr monitor is broken.


My max heart rate generally is 185, meaning that's the heart rate max I see reasonably often when I'm giving my all. Highest recorded is 190, but only once I think, I rarely see above 185. This is with a Garmin chest strap and Garmin Edge, it was the same with my older Garmin, and also consistent using a Wahoo Tickr strap and Strava iPhone. I'm confident the monitor/numbers are correct.

170+ is the upper for average for me I guess to be honest. 160+ is usual though. And on the MTB, I would literally never had an average less than 140 on trails I don't think, not even trying very hard to ride gentle.

I do struggle a lot with riding mellow. I literally forget about it and just get stuck into it. It's also not really why I'm out there. It's supposed to be exciting.

I would usually average in the 150s on ebike, and sometimes still in the 160s for multiple hours. But that's from descending fast spiking HR. I don't have one currently. I had a crisis about it and went back to regular MTB. But the headaches...  I want my eMtb back. 

I have to learn things a few times apparently.


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## Zed_2601 (7 mo ago)

Smiles for miles said:


> You don't need a wheelchair, I mean ebike, just yet  I've found a couple of things help since I posted the above a while ago: my headaches happened only when my blood pressure was in the "yellow zone", instead of my usual green zone. Get a cheap BP cuff from Amazon or whatever, and see if you have the same correlation. If yes, find the source of your increased BP. BP is usually higher after intense exercise, and mine was being pushed up further by a medication I was taking. Keeping my BP in the green eliminated 90% of my headaches. Next, magnesium. I know a lot of people think they have enough, or they have tried it, but I take about 200% USRDA of magnesium in the form of a powder mix called natural calm. It took me 2 months to slowly build up to that amount. START SMALL WITH MAGNESIUM OR IT WILL HAVE YOU RUNNING TO THE BATHROOM EVERY 3 MINUTES. Start with 1/10th of a teaspoon, and over time work your way up. Only when you get to at least 100% RDA (it says on the package) can you decide that magnesium does not help your headaches. I highly recommend that you try those two things: figure out if your BP is above the "green zone" and fix that if possible, plus also try working up to a large daily dose of magnesium. I take a tall heaping teaspoon of natural calm each day and it's improved my health more than any supplement I've ever taken. Good luck!!


Interesting, I have tried magnesium supplementation but not to that extent. Hey, it's worth a shot. I'm not sure I can see how that would affect something vascular but I'm happy to rule it out. If you've backed off intensity at the same time though I'd wager the improvements you've seen are more about that than the mg supplementation. I know already that backing off the intensity suitably fixes the headaches.

I know my usual daily blood pressure is good, I have a high quality blood pressure tester, I hadn't actually monitored post exercise though. I do know my pulse remains elevated for some time. I'll have a look.

In the end though backing off and monitoring heart rates and stuff - it feels more like managing a problem instead of just going out and having fun. I'm sorry to say it, but I'm struggling to see why not just light ebike. I mean OK, there's people opinions, but I'm not about to START caring about that at 47 am I 

Lift weights for strength and heavy bike handling, and then go an smash descents anytime I fancy. Or alternatively, tootle about at low speed watching a heart rate monitor. Hmmm....

BTW, I'm AUS, so trail access issues are a non-issue.


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