# Looking for info on climbing range



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

First this may not be the right forum because this question pertains to the $2k class of utility bikes. Can't find any valid range information.
I am thinking of using an eBike like a quad ATV. It needs to carry me and gear up a 500ft/mile climb for 6 miles. Lowest pedal assist not throttle mode. Don't mind working.
Old mining roads so they are rough.
I weight 250lbs and probably have 50lbs of gear. So will any of these cheap ebikes, that support racks etc, do the job and how big a battery would be needed if yes.
Looking for something like the Radpower Rover but with non-proprietary parts so I can change out the freewheel (why do they use freewheels?) or cranks for lower gears not for speed.
So many companies jumping on this rear hub drive market. M2S?
If this is too mundane for this forum any recommendations where to get this info?
Thanks very much


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Quad or a tirke is feasable, 6 miles of 500ft climb with 300lbs total weight. I used to weigh 380lbs and did just fine with a bigger then average dd hub motor, but you plan on pedaling which will help out a lot. I think any old decently sized hub motor would work, if its geared (kv) properly with the proper voltage and amps added. Geared MAC hub motor would be a great choice, or better yet the GMAC which is geared but its lockable so it can be used for regeneration if thats something you are interested in going back down the hill. BBSHD mid drive is an option
Pretty cheap stuff to slap on whatever bicycle/tricycle/quadricycle you plan on getting, but you can make some pretty awesome looking ebikes, not as sleek as the expensive store bought ebikes but at least you can swap things around and try things out, with major oem your stuck, with generic stuff like on the sites listed below, who knows what your getting.
I got a half reasonable bike and the bottom bracket was a one off size not sold anywhere.
There is that Indigogo folding bike that the frames commonly break.
Some Enduro/Stealth frames have been known to crack on tame riding.
Best thing most do is buy an old brand name bicycle and start slapping stuff on there.
A 10 year old Trek or a 8 year old Specialized, or a 15 year old Rocky Mountain or a 25 year old steel framed (name your brand name bicycle manufacturer, Kuwahara ?)

36v or 48v are the obvious choices depending on your desired speed and kv of the motor with your voltage and amps. 36v since you want to pedal. Amp wise, well cant say on this forum.

I would personally stay away from all generic complete ebikes from the usual suspects
Amazon
Ebay
Aliexpress
Alibaba
etc

A trike, would require a front hub motor for easiest installation, but a mid drive would work depending on the bottom bracket area. I have seen plenty of bso trikes from department stores that have been converted with BBSHD's on them and the usual LBS trikes or cruisers with a small Bafang motor. Like I said BBSHD's is the better choice.

Cyclone TW is an option.

BBS01/02's are old (not even sure if they sell new ones anymore)
BBSHD's are better overall, but lots of low power users love their BBS01/02's
BBSHD's are sold new
Dont buy used motors, you have no idea if its cooked or baked windings inside, even if the motor runs. Dont have to worry about the motors on major brand name oem's as they are so restricted for liability reasons for obvious reasons. Its not so much the power limitations, but parts. I cant throw my Grintech 52v battery on no major oem ebike. Back in the day you could fool the electronics of some ebikes to use your own battery, but these days its very hard to.
Dont buy used batteries either, used batteries are worth ZERO money.
I dont even trust most of the batteries sold on those sites, unless its a confirmed quality battery seller like Unit Pack Power, Luna Cycle, Grintech, OSN Power, gosh those are all that come to mind, the last battery I bought was 3 years ago. I dont go looking for batteries, only go looking for good deals on hub motors and controllers to flip.


Front hub could be an issue on gravel with not much weight up there for traction its not uncommon for the tire to over-rotate when doing any sort of throttle whether be pedal assist or the other method.

Endless Sphere forum


Endless Sphere - Index page



Ebiking has become popular, especialy with covid and all its free money floating around, people not spending, people saving, people coup'ed up in their house and wanting excersize so ebikes it is.

36v 25a controller any old one would do, I like Greentime EVFitting on Aliexpress, sensorless and sensored option. Unless you want regen, foc, sinewave, software programmable stuff like LVC.

36v 40a battery - Do not worry, its all limited to whatever the controller is.

MAC geared hub motor
GMAC geared hub motor that can act like a direct drive to achieve regen
BBSHD mid drive
Leafbike and Leafmotor both sell high efficiency Direct Drives, no other dd hub stands out, aside from the biggies like QS motors. Other then that, any generic hub, your typical bog standard 9C clone which I think is 25H stator width.

If you want to play around





Motor Simulator - Tools


Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...




ebikes.ca









Trip Simulator -UPDATED- - Tools







ebikes.ca




Hopefully your back road is on google maps which is what the trip sim uses.

I was interested in the grade slope of 6 miles and 500'








Elevation Grade Calculator


Elevation grade calculator determines the grade or slope of a specific earthen area, given its "rise" and "run".




www.omnicalculator.com




1.57% aint much at all, if you need extra cooling capabilities, then look at Ferrofluid from ebikes.ca but I dont think you will need it. People have done all types of mods, like using aluminum heat sink fins between the flanges of the hub, mini 12v fans, the old days before Ferrorfluid we used automotive ATF fluid but that would leak a lot, others have drilled holes in their hub motors cover plate. Heck I even dipped my 35H Leaf into a fountain once before I had to climb a hill, also cooled it off in the river before a big climb, 1.5% is probably what I ride every day but for 2 miles.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Unfortunately I am talking about 500ft per mile. So nearly 3000ft in 5 miles and I am not interested in building one.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

This might be an option. Although a New Zealand company they have a presence here.









UBCO Electric Bikes - Ride The Planet


Designed for exploration. Built for adventure. Road registrable and ready for adventure, on-road and off-road. Versatile and tough for commuters, delivery riders, or weekend warriors.




ubco.com


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

THanks but I don't want small wheels. I want the same parts I use on other bikes rather than something unique. I think it is going to be M2S All Terrain unless I find another option.
Cheers


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

mike_kelly said:


> THanks but I don't want small wheels. I want the same parts I use on other bikes rather than something unique. I think it is going to be M2S All Terrain unless I find another option.
> Cheers


How about just buy a second battery for the M2S All-Terrain, carry it in your pack to make sure you get that 6000ft climb?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

That is easier done by just buying a bigger battery from them at purchase time. Cheaper and lighter. But the question is really the internal gearing of the motor, which has nothing to do with the gearing of the drive train. I am concerned that this bike may be optimized for high speed vs low speed torque.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

II know it is not in your budget - but a mid-drive with rack mounts would be the first step. For example - the Giant Explore E+ for $5199. Maybe you could ride one a your local Giant dealer?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I am just not interested at that price point. This bike is for a specific purpose to be used instead of a fourwheel ATV in the mountains of Montana. The ebike will not be used any other time. I like pedaling otherwise. I am just not in love with 3000ft climbs.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

So I made my choice. Analyzing the climbs( MATT4x4 that Analyzer from ebikes.ca is really valuable, thanks) I want to do I determined that a hub drive 500w was not going to do the job. To meet the budget requirements I got a Eunorau mid-drive BBSHD FAT-HS. Not in the class of MTBR bikes but half the price. I will see if it was a smart or a stupid move. I will throw the drive train out and install a 9 speed microShift Advent clutched long cage derailleur and an their matching11-46T cassette, if the bike comes with a cassette hub - there is some question that it might be a freewheel. Then replace the front chainring with an after market Lekkie 28T chainring.


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