# 3 speed



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I posted this on a couple of other forums before I found this one. Had no idea this was here.

I read the post about the Shimano Inter-3 IGH.(SG-3D55) hub which is probably my only choice, although for the current bike I don't need the disc brake mount. The info that is missing is the weight of the hub and the gearing. Anybody know? I haven't looked at hubs with more gears because they are heavy and usually expensive. If this one is a pig too I will probably pass and keep doing what I am doing. But research never hurts. Here is the original post.

To preface the question, I just started riding a single speed and am having fun with it. Pushing through with one high gear is and new and challenging skill to master. I do still have a small ring (24) on the front and run a Melvin tensioner. In very technical sections or tight steep switchbacks that gear makes the difference between riding and walking. I'm not talking just hard to pedal sections but I would think that unless you are one of the gifted few, 99% of ss riders aren't going to get through either with only a high gear. Unless they can trials hop through. So I really want easy access to a lower gear for those 1 or 2 places on a trail that it comes in handy. As it is I shift down with the side of my shoe but have to stop to help the chain back on the 34.

The rub comes in that I really like the simplicity of the ss without derailleurs or shifters or cables and while installing a front derailleur would solve my problem I just don't want to do it.

Years ago I thought of running 3 front rings and 1 rear but never did it and that was before chain tensioners were available so I would have had to have a rear derailleur anyhow. However that got me thinking of 3 speeds.

So to finally get to the point is there anyone out there who makes a quality lightweight and well made 3 speed hub in 135mm spacing? Also what kind of gearing do they offer?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

modifier said:


> The info that is missing is the weight of the hub and the gearing.


945.0 g; 73%, 100%, 136%


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> 945.0 g; 73%, 100%, 136%


Thanks


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

I've been using the hub on my MTB for over a year now. I'm about 190#, riding in rocky ass central PA. I've done a day at 7 springs down hill park on it, 6 hour XC rides, and Its still running like a charm


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## isahnisahn (Jul 27, 2010)

Still running good for me. The only thing that sucks is the grip shifter. If I could find a way to use a thumb shifter it would be a keeper, but I HATE the grip shifter.


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

*You might like this then...*

custom thumb shifter of my design, measured the pull from the shitty grip shifter and have been improving the design ever since. Hope you like it, more to come.


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

*forgot to mention*

for any weight weenies... 50grams... about half what an X-0 shifter weighs....


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

modifier said:


> So to finally get to the point is there anyone out there who makes a quality lightweight and well made 3 speed hub in 135mm spacing? Also what kind of gearing do they offer?


As mentioned, the SG-3D55 is Shimano's offering. The manufacturer's specified weight for this hub is lighter than the competition, but, and it's a big but:
1) Remember, we're talking about 0.1%~0.2% of the total over-the-road weight of the bike+rider
2) Everyone I know who has put a Shimano gear hub on a scale has discovered a weight well above the Shimano factory (or marketing department) spec. 
Shimano is the new kid in the industry, having only made gear hubs since 1957.

The SRAM T3 is easily the world's best selling 3-speed hub, but it does *not* come in 135mmOLD. SRAM offers their iMotion3 Disc in 135mmOLD. This fast-shifting new design features a shift cable inboard of the drop out and the industry best cable attach/detatch. The ratios are the same (well, to two decimal places!) as Shimano's 3s: 0.73, 1.0, 1.36. Like Shimano, SRAM offers only a twist grip shifter. SRAM, through their Fichtel&Sachs business group, has been making hubs since 1895 and gear hubs since 1904.

Sturmey-Archer's new S-RK3 disc-mount 3-speed hub in 135mmOLD has just hit North America. There's always somebody who didn't get the memo: this hub is significantly improved from the Sturmey three speeds of 75 - or even 11 - years ago. Sturmey offers a dual paddle, a thumb, a barend, a downtube, their classic trigger, a couple of other trigger and twist grip shifters, and even a "stick shift" style intended for chopper bikes. Sturmey's 3-speed gear ratios are ever so slightly narrower than SRAM/Shimano: 0.75, 1.0, 1.33. It's been a long, strange road, but Sturmey-Archer built their first gear hub in 1902.

Hard to believe, but all three of these hubs use exactly the same industry standard three-spline cogs. These are available for 3/32 and 1/8 chain in 13-24 tooth sizes from many sources.


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## webtwo (Nov 8, 2010)

SRAM also offers a "Dual-Drive" 3 speed option. It has the same ratios of internal gears as their T3, but has a standard freehub instead of the 3-spline cog interface. This allows you to use your existing 9-spline single-speed set-up. Alternatively, you can add a cassette and have 24 or 27 total ratios in combination with the 3 internal gears.

The Spot brand "Highline" model uses the Dual Drive hub as an internal gear 3-speed.


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

webtwo said:


> SRAM also offers a "Dual-Drive" 3 speed option. It has the same ratios of internal gears as their T3, but has a standard freehub instead of the 3-spline cog interface. This allows you to use your existing 9-spline single-speed set-up. Alternatively, you can add a cassette and have 24 or 27 total ratios in combination with the 3 internal gears.


Yeah, Sturmey's got one of those, too. With or without disc mount. A bit pricey, but actually less expensive than an SG-3D55. S-A has three-speed hubs with drum brakes and a fixed gear model, too, but those don't sound like what the OP was looking for.

Then there's the unique 3-spd offerings of MBI, and Falcon builds knock-offs of older Shimano 3-spd hubs.


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

The sturmey 3 -speed disc is also space like 150mm (check me on this, I haven't looked in awhile), it was for a cruiser bike of sorts. And the beauty of any of the shimano stuff vs sram is that they'll actually warranty it, you can just say your like 400lbs or something riding around town SRAM supposedly will "know" if you've mtb on it (this is what the guys at interbike were saying) The shimano tech's at interbike said theres a set of paws that are most likely to break on their three speed, but idk I do drops and all sort of stupid things on mine and it hasent broken *knocks on wood*. They also have a bath to clean the internals. Only thing I'm not crazy about is the shifter (but if you look above I'm solving that problem). Cheers


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

dilelladesigns said:


> The sturmey 3 -speed disc is also space like 150mm (check me on this, I haven't looked in awhile), it was for a cruiser bike of sorts.


You're thinking of Sturmey's S*X*-RK3, with an OLD of 170mm. I informed everybody about the new S-RK3. As I said (correctly), it has a 135mm OLD and an available factory thumbshifter.


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

Sturmey has awesome shifter options too. Thumbie barend downtube. Shimano is droppin the ball


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

any updates on your shifter, dilelladesigns?


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## dilelladesigns (Jan 19, 2011)

prototypes are on, my mtb and commuter. a friends commuter and another friends MTB. If you'd like to buy me a CNC machine, I'll gladly make more :-D


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

dilelladesigns said:


> prototypes are on, my mtb and commuter. a friends commuter and another friends MTB. If you'd like to buy me a CNC machine, I'll gladly make more :-D


what are they, like, 20 bucks? 40? ill paypal it to you. lol.

im actually not lookin to igh til next year. i figure if i start doing my research now, ill only be waiting for the funds.

i went SS a few years ago and love it. now i'm thinkin bout igh. i dont really need a wide spread, as i am not trying to approximate the function of derailleurs (i dont care about cadence). so i was thinking 3 spd (fast, cruise, and climb). but i hate grip shift. i was just wondering as you mentioned you were improving it.

maybe u could talk to isar and see if he could free up some machine time.

-cheers-


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I've got a S-A 3 speed on a cyclocross bike. Stone axe reliable.

A couple of provisos: 
Adjustment must be made to the marks, not twiddled by feel. Riding with a mal-adjusted hub is likely to break it.
When changing gear, the pressure must be taken off the pedals. Don't force the change through.

Ignoring those 2 points are the main reasons for failure in a hub gear.

I'm from the generation where 50,000 miles was expected out of the S-A hubs, and they have improved considerably since then.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

thanks for the tips, homey. i hate the clueless feeling when dealing with a new system. im sure theres gonna be lots of head scratching next spring. 

im used to soft pedaling from my derailleur days, plus it wouldnt really be "snap" gear changes. and i recently overlooked a couple very thin spacers in my woodman headset, with resulting "wtf" harshness/ adjustment headaches, so im real big on reading instructions all of a sudden.

and thanks for the report on reliability. seems the alfine's got some really good feedback and i've been wondering if the 3-spd hubs are just as durable.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

There's lots of 8 speed Alfines out there going strong.

I've heard of a few problems with the new 11 speed, but that's teething problems, Shimano will sort it quickly I'm sure.

I don't know anyone using 3 speeds offroad, but just remember that "pass storming*" was a popular thing in Britain until the 50s, and many of those bikes would have used 3 speeds.

*We'd call it mountain biking these days. Basically 3 speeds have been reliable for over 100 years.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

seems like id be well served with a 3 spd. cost of entry is lower, and if it craps out, ill just go with a 2nd or 3rd run alfine 11, specially since the oil bath sounds pretty nice.

thanks again dude.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Might revisit this idea later but last fall I broke down and installed a front derailleur and a bar con shifter to switch between the 2 front rings. For the time being this has solved my problem and when I meet up with other SSers and mention that I had to use my bail out gear on a section they say they had to walk. I'd rather blaspheme the SS religion than walk.

The weight of the internal hubs is what really keeps me away. If you compare it to a full 27 or 30 speed drive trail it's not as extreme but compared with a SS it adds a lot.


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## abailcb (Apr 28, 2011)

When I was a young one (college days) I rode a 3X7 Sachs for several years. GT Tequesta, exage crank, exage rear dr, 32T singlespeed cog, Marz XCR, 1" ControlStem. It was heavy, but fun to ride with wide gear ratios. Looked real clean too as all the cable routing was under since it was a chainstay U-brake frame. Still have all the components, but most are on the shelf .......


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I'm still liking the 2 speed. Don't need to use the low gear very often but sure do like having it when I do. I'll still struggle over stuff in high most of the time but some sections are just not happening in the 34. 

I've actually been toying with the idea of adding a larger 3rd ring lately because I spin out on down hills quickly and when I'm riding with someone who has the same gear but on a 29er so it's hard to keep up with him going down hill and I'm still not ready to go to a higher cog. I don't know what that ring might be. Maybe a 38 or 40? I'm not sure what the capacity is for my Melvin either.


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## dblspeed (Jan 31, 2006)

Velobike said:


> I've got a S-A 3 speed on a cyclocross bike. Stone axe reliable.
> 
> A couple of provisos:
> Adjustment must be made to the marks, not twiddled by feel. Riding with a mal-adjusted hub is likely to break it.
> ...


Hey Velobike, is the SA cs-rk3 the hub you have?

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/8/id/59


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

dblspeed said:


> Hey Velobike, is the SA cs-rk3 the hub you have?...


I mainly use the S-RF3, but I have a few other Sturmey hubs for other purposes, mostly with drum brakes.

The biggest hassle is that most are setup for narrow dropouts, but a bit of ingenuity and a few spacers can get you around that.

Makes for a silent bike if you combine a S-A 3spd with a belt drive.


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## webtwo (Nov 8, 2010)

I just incorporated the SA CS-RK3 on my commuter. I bought a SS Norco Vesta belt-drive a few months ago. I had been pretty happy SS-ing the 30 miles RT to work. However, I missed racing the traffic with the nice afternoon tailwinds that I can take advantage of with higher gearing. The CS-RK3 or the SRAM were my cheapest options for adding gears because I would have to buy a 3-spline Gates cog (~$120) to fit most other IGH hubs. I would also have to buy a front chainring to maintain my current gear ratio (because the 3-splines only come in 24T size). I settled on the SA because I wanted a bar-end shifter and it was easy to find one in black to match my bike's color scheme. So far I have no complaints.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

isahnisahn said:


> Still running good for me. The only thing that sucks is the grip shifter. If I could find a way to use a thumb shifter it would be a keeper, but I HATE the grip shifter.


I just came across this post. I'm currently SS but thinking of going IGH.

SA says of the CS-RK3:

"Compatible with standard MTB / ATB left hand shifters for front triple chainwheel"

Does that mean my old Shimano left-hand shifter will work with this hub?


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## webtwo (Nov 8, 2010)

Shimano 3-speed left-hand shifters are supposed to work with the CSRK3. I did not have one around to try out. It was recommended that I try SA's 3-speed bar-end shifter (I'm a drop-bar guy) and it worked for a while, but eventually I was able to force it to slip under hard pedaling. I tried endless adjustments, but eventually I abandoned the SA hub altogether and rebuilt the wheel with a Shimano Alfine. Haven't installed it on the bike and lately have been favoring my 1x7 geared bike for commuting/non-hilly riding.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

As an update: A bit ago I finally received my Homegrown ring and cog and am now running a 3 ring 3 speed on the bike with a Melvin and full suspension and a gripshifter. 

I had found the 20/34 gearing to be a bit too low overall and changed to an 18 cog, but that was really too high for me personally. I could ride it and did all summer but it was a struggle at times. I ordered a 19 tooth and that is a good compromise.

The singlespeed novelty complete with sacrificing mechanical advantage has worn thin and with the addition of a bigger 3rd ring made the bike fun to ride. I ended up with 24 34 40 gearing and like it. I still barely use the 24 but having it to keep from walking something really steep and or technical is a blessing and I am in the 40 more than I would have thought.

This bike is still 4 steps down when choosing what bike to ride and the others all have more gears but it's still nice to have as an alternative.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

You're running a 3x3 with a shifter, tensioner and FS? I understand the desire to tinker but.....


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

jeff said:


> You're running a 3x3 with a shifter, tensioner and FS? I understand the desire to tinker but.....


It's a 1x3. I don't base my decisions on what the group does, and yes experimentation leads to improvements. What have you created besides carbon emissions?

Hey it has a 650b front wheel too. Omg that should really send you over the edge


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