# urban/trials frames



## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

as I may have hinted around, I'm planning on building up a trials bike this summer. But lately I've decided I also want to be able to do urban on it, so stair gaps and the like too (this means suspension fork. I won't say what yet, I don't want to lay out a whole specific plan yet and then not do it, like I've done so often. You can pretty much guess what I'm thinking about, though). The build will optimately be all used, but more realisticly everything but the fork will be used.

I've already put my sights on some nice used components my friends have lying around, but that's not the point.

What street and trials frames are out there (seat post spot needed) that won't break unless I case on some cement blocks, some cars, and a couple safes at the same time (exageration yes, but you get the idea).

All I'm aware of right now is the Planet X Pitbull and the Norco Moment, which I have no idea about the strength (either one) though the Pitbull is advertised as strong.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Planet X has some solid offerings I know of.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

their site only shows road bikes!

I just ran across the jack flash. That looks like a pretty darn good choice!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/mtb/i...op=view_page&PAGE_id=120&MMN_position=238:238

On the right of the page there are links to their current frame offerings.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

I had a jack flash quite some time ago, alright frame (PX construction consistency can be questionable at times), but not trials specific at all. Well, they did have about a dozen different renditions of the jackflash... But with a different build and set-up, it could have been fairly trials worthy, although mine was not as I had it set up. mainly the gearing, and short stem. 

I also just recently sold my Echo Urban trials bike w/ PX knifenlite fork, and it was much more trials specific. Still had an open seattube, although I only had a 1" long seatpost, so no extension, and it was an SS with 22:18 gearing, so riding it around a city sucked bad... I sold that thing CHEAP, I should have let you know dirtyharry...

honestly, right now, I don't know much about current trials bikes, as I lost a bit of interest, but I do know that stock trials just recently took a big leap in the availability of some super trick frames out there right now. This style is so ridiculously big in the UK at the moment, there are some sick riders there...


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

There's norco offering complete stock trials bikes also. I think they ride pretty nice.


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## literocola (Dec 18, 2006)

Stay away from Norco, they are quite below par in the trial community. Dont feed into the Ryan Leech hoopla. Dont get me wrong, he is an amazing rider.

If you do want to get into more urban trials, I would personally stay away from suspension forks. As you progress in your riding, you will become quite smooth with just about every drop, gap, and whatever else you get yourself into. (With trials, there isnt much that can stop us) But, I would keep you DJ for stair gapping. Leave your trial for trials.

As far as learning the basic trials moves, you can learn on any bike. Seat or no seat. 
Rear wheel hopping, peddle kicking, ups and what not. 
But as you progress, you will find that the seat becomes annoying, and gets in the way for bigger moves, and more advanced tequinces. Hooks, Sidehopping, Japslaps, peddleups. etc.
You really do need to make your mind up when it comes to going trials. Either you do want to ride trials, or not. 
Here is some pics and links to some more uban trials frames and bike builds.
Echo Bikes (One of the best trials companies on the planet, and most popular)
Echo Bike
Echo Urban Trials Bike








Echo Control- 








Planet X: I can never find their website either. 








Koxx, the most expensive, but perhaps the best trials bikes in the world. Out of France.
Koxx Bikes
Check out their video section as well, Benito Ros is one of the top riders in the world. And Thomas Remvik Aassen (TRA) is also an amazing rider. The moves that they pull are just crazy. 
Koxx urban frame;









Adamant Bikes
Echo Based Company, awsome bikes-









Czar Bikes
I am getting a Czar, if only it could get through customs. Ive been waiting a long time for it to show up. Apart of trials is waiting on stuff to show up. Since there is such a small market, its hard to get stuff. Then getting a part, you wait for it to get through customs.. and man.. it kills ya. 









And here are some more links:
BT bikes
Zoo Bikes
Simtra Bikes
Onza Bikes
I have to post this pic of the new Onza Proto bike, its more about the playground then the bike though:









And if you do decide to jump into trials, just remember trials takes practice, patience, dedcation, and determanation. 
Riders spend years just to master a single move. Most people start trials and quit due to how amazingly hard it is to ride trials, and ride it well. 
Anyone can ride a bike off of somthing, but what impresses people more, is the ability to ride up it. Weather it be a 5' wall, or crazy rock section. Trials opens people minds to whole new lines, and what can be done on a bike. And, if you do start riding, you will find that when you ride in the city, its not uncommon for people to bust out cameras, and before you know it, you have a crowd watching your play around on your bike. Its a great feeling.


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## literocola (Dec 18, 2006)

I found this pic, taken earlier last year. In the back, you can see a planet X owned by Mike, who owns Flight-Bikes. It is a Planet X, I forget which one excatly, but as you can see, it has a low top tube, and short chain stays. He is also running the Marzocchi forks, with ETA. We always compress the fork so there is barley any travel. He is also running full Forumla Hydro disk. (too much pink for my taste, but the ladies sure love that bike) You wont find very many trials bikes out there that run full disk, we typically use HS33's in the rear.

Julain up there, is riding a Echo HiFi, going from the ledge to your right, and landing on the handrail to the left. Julain there also has the biggest ups I have ever seen, he can easily launch up 5 feet from a dead stop to rear. Its amazing to see in person. When him and I get together, its sheer madness. We pretty much destroy anything that we come across. With the aftermath of tire marks everywhere.


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## f0ggy (Jul 5, 2006)

Ive found that all of planet x's quality is great, if your in the us, look at the us distributors site, www.zedsport.com thoes guys are super helpful, now planet x's frames are made in tiwan but that doesnt make them weak


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## grunt2960 (Apr 3, 2005)

Wow, that Adament is beautiful!


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

We've got a couple Adamants around here. They ride really nice.

That Czar is real cool looking.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Color coordination at it's best. I like all those bikes.


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## grunt2960 (Apr 3, 2005)

*holy crap*

Look at this Koxx, looks like a freaking gun from the future.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

yeah, I know trials is better with rigid, but a super short, super stiff, relatively light suspension fork can't be a bad thing (especially on my wrists!). 

though if the build starts to look like it will get over my max budget, I'm dropping the suspension fork idea. 

this is my thought: if I'm trying to learn some trials, I really don't want to feel held back from screwing off for a couple minutes when I get frustrated because the rigid hurts my wrists to land a big bunnyhop . . .

but then again, that's why trials bikes have long stems and widish bars, isn't it (longer time for shock from a stupid or bad landing to get to your wrists and to die out a bit, if that makes sense)

igg . . . . I guess the bottom line is I don't take rigid well, and I don't want that to impact my progression

and I plain just like hucking down stairs, which I get a huge urge to do so whenever I see a four, three, five, six, etc. set., though that's not such a big deal. The former point is. 

as for the seat, if I'm riding more than a mile to go somewhere to ride (which will definitely be the case: the closet spot with ANYTHING good to do is roughly three miles I think) I want a seat. 

Might as well point out the parts I've seen lying around at my friends:

Avid BB7 front brake with Fr-5 lever and cables. Hoo yeah!
Truvativ Hussefelt bars and stem. If I can get 'em real, REAL cheap, what the hell . . . 
Shimano Deore XT derailler (if it's off of the guy's bike by then. He doesn't want it, that's the point) and shifter
probably the cassette to go with it.


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## starship303 (May 16, 2006)

i think perhaps Adamant and Koxx are out of your reach, though they are brilliant bikes. Echo's i love too but again may be overkill for a beginner (unless you can afford it in which case knock yourself out! :thumbsup: ).

I recently found a half price special on a decent looking Planet-X "Ali Bongo" frame in the UK (https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=1056&ModelID=8255). Pretty good looking frame, and can run a short seat to boot making it a damn fine urban trials beginner frame. GBP179.99 = ~ US$360










*Trials experts - is this X frame any good??*

They also have X's Pitbull Pro frame for GBP199 (https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=8685)










Anyway may not be worth a look if your in the US and can find them for almost the same price, but they seem decently priced none the less (depends on postage).

BTW just saw this on the KOXX site...  :skep: interesting...


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## grunt2960 (Apr 3, 2005)

Psssst. Look up two posts :thumbsup:


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## starship303 (May 16, 2006)

D'oh! you beat me to it grunt!!


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## f0ggy (Jul 5, 2006)

dirtyharry said:


> yeah, I know trials is better with rigid, but a super short, super stiff, relatively light suspension fork can't be a bad thing (especially on my wrists!).
> 
> though if the build starts to look like it will get over my max budget, I'm dropping the suspension fork idea.
> 
> ...


I dont ride rigid, but look at bmxers, they are hucking more than 6 stairs on their rigid bmx's and how do they do it? Technique, I dont know it cuz im not a bmxer, but apparently you learn how to land properly very quickly, even with a little suspension your wrists are still going to hurt, its just part of it. again if your buget permits, I think you should get some wide bars. Ultimately I think suspension will impact your progression because you wont be as smooth or get some of thoes tricks or whatever as rigid trials riders. Just a little opinion thats backed by nothing but thinking about it.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

http://www.leesonbikes.co.uk/609.html# that thing is siiiick
http://www.curtisbikes.co.uk/trials24.htm sos that check out webcyclery,com
good frmaes or the onza zoot


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

those look sweet, but budget apparently would be a problem.

I'm looking to spend no more than about two hundred on a frame, and no more than about two fifty to three on parts. That may not be very much, but any job I'm going to get is going to probably be minimum wage, so unless I want to be working all summer (I mean ALL, call me lazy, but I gotta leave slots here and there to do some other stuff before I get stuck back in school: highschool too, so an ass load of homework (I'm thinking around 20-25 hours a week right now, not too bad, plus a good bit of extra time here and there)) I gotta buy cheap! And besides, if I want to get the right suspension fork, that's gonna be a hunk outta the wallet. 

F0ggy, the fork i'm thinking of would not impact my progress AT all, from what I've heard, about it's performance, but I don't wanna say until I have the cash and am ready to buy.

If you REALLY care, you can PM me. 

rear brake question:

I hear that Magura HS-33's are truly the sh!t, but with it comes a whole bit of price and maintenence I don't need to worry about (by maintenence, I mean set up and bleeding) so I'm thinking V-brakes.

either a higher end Avid single digit or a higher end shimano

those will be fine, right?


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

If you want to go with rim brakes then Hydros are still the way to go. I really suggest you do this right, and not build a sh*t bike to start out with.


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## literocola (Dec 18, 2006)

Trial uses long stems to help keep the body more spaced out, and ability to make rear wheel moves easier, and again comfort. DJ stems are so short, it makes rearwheel moves harder and less comfortable. Wide bars are about the same; my Echo bars are 29.5" wide. Which helps for balance, and also ability to make you in more control of the bike. With trials, you have to be in 100% control, or you could find yourself in the hospital.

With DJ'in, bikes are compact, and easy to toss around while airborne. My DJ, I use the stock Bontarager Big Earls which are wide, but after riding trials, I like wider bars. I can do so much more, but making X ups a little more tricky.

All in all, just experiment, have fun and play with diffrent set ups. I've gone through more and more gear ratios attempting to find what I like. And upon the arrival of the Czar frame, I will again start the pain of trying diffrent stems at diffrent legths and angles till I find what I like the best. Since the Ivan has a +60mm bottom bracket rise, it will make getting on the bike for the 1st time, really wierd.

And gearing ratios get tricky as well. In trials we use a Front Freewheel set up, with a fixed hub in the rear. Why? I have no idea. I have a 19t White Eno FW in the front and am running a 17T track cog in the rear, making riding from place to place, slow, and well.. slow. I am so addicted to trials that I have no issues riding my trial from A to B. I even ride it to work about 3 days a week. Ryan Leech for exsample uses a 22/19 ratio, with a typical BB and crank set up. I think he is using the TruVative Husserfelt if I'm not mistaken.

FFW set up:









Koxx Boxx in action.. any takers?
Video from this demo- Its an amazing video as well, Hermance and Vinco are mad men:
https://www.photobysergio.fr/video-vtt-toulouse.html


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## literocola (Dec 18, 2006)

*Think I found your Trials bike*

I just found this if you have already seen it, sorry for the repost, but its new to me:

Jeff Lenosky New Signature Frame:

the geometry is treaked a lttle off last years version. The chainstays are 15.75 now and the BB got raised by a quartrer inch too. EVevrything else is the same as last year, it just feels more nimble without going crazy


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

Vinny A said:


> If you want to go with rim brakes then Hydros are still the way to go. I really suggest you do this right, and not build a sh*t bike to start out with.


i cant agree with that more, ive ridden trials for about 4 years, and i got a trick monty mod bike with carbon wide trials bars, day glo orange hs33s etc. those things will hold up to whatever you throw at it. im looking into getting an adamant, zoo or echo bike, or maybe a czar, koxx's are just all to expensive, but tim at trials-in puts em up on sale sometimes. imo mods are fun, but stocks or 24s are way better for street, you can usually get a onza zoot for 800 or so on ebay, but they come from england so shipping is upwards of 200. check out webcyclery, trials-in or mtb classifieds. you have to realize, trials bikes are not cheap at all, you have to pay or else your gonna end up with a sh!t hi-ten steel bike with crap brakes and snapped bb's, trials is NOT CHEAP at all !!!!!!!! i got my mod from trading an old sherman flick and i beat that thing to no end, bikes are built to last. and as far as hydro vs go, they are not that bad to care for, they just need to be bleed on occasion and dialing em in is really simple, rob may be able to do it for you he owns a set on his monty. and as far as riders go, theres 5 or so of us on a slightly higher level who ride trials down on the rocks at the creek or on UNC/carrboro chapel hill. just think on it and give it some time


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## brad06ag (Dec 17, 2004)

> And gearing ratios get tricky as well. In trials we use a Front Freewheel set up, with a fixed hub in the rear. Why?


Front Freewheels are used because of the ease of maintanance, the price, and the engagement points. You can get a Eno 72point engagement freewheel for $100, while something similiar in a cassette hub would cost $300 at the very least.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

that is conceivable, but I don't think it's a great choice. It's a sweet looking Dj bike, though ... well, actually, what does everyone else think? I'd rather have something more street trialsy by geometry and less DJish, but I'll get what I can . . . 

okay, then, hydros it is . . .

I realize this will be expensive, but if you look in the right places, you can find killer used deals.

Point me toward some hubs I should look into . . .

I figure I should look into stuff now and figure out how much I'm going to need to save . . .


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## jmkimmel (Jan 23, 2006)

Vinny A said:


> If you want to go with rim brakes then Hydros are still the way to go. I really suggest you do this right, and not build a sh*t bike to start out with.


Sorry bud, but you're wrong. Maguras are only good if the frame comes with 4-bolt mounts. A magura on EVO adapters for canti posts is outgunned by a good V-brake setup on the same posts.

So...if you get a 4bolt frame, run Maggies. If the frame has canti posts, run V's. For more info and noob abuse than you can shake a stick at, head on over to www.observedtrials.net

As a last comment, you should check out the Simtra BnB - that'd be my street/trials rig of choice.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to get across. (no offense to you.)

By Hydros I meant going with hydro v brakes. I didn't mean to go with a hydro disc brake. Echo makes some killer hydro v-brakes.


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## jmkimmel (Jan 23, 2006)

I didn't mean disks - I mean exactly what you're talking about - hydro rim brakes (AKA Magura HS33's, aka Maguras, aka Maggies). Echo now makes a knockoff version, but they're not v-brakes. 

V brakes are 'linear pull cable rim brakes'. Yup yup, just a little misunderstanding.


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## brad06ag (Dec 17, 2004)

> By Hydros I meant going with hydro v brakes. I didn't mean to go with a hydro disc brake. Echo makes some killer hydro v-brakes.


Hydraulic rim brakes (which you're calling V-brakes), require a 4-bolt mount to be mounted properly. The most common ones in the trials world are magura HS-33's (referenced above as Maggies). This also applies to the Echo brakes you're talking about.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Ah my bad. I completely understand, I had my terms completely mixed up.

Do you really think that V-Brakes are good for trials? From my limited experience I have found V brakes to severely lacking in any kind of stopping/clamping power. I think they would slip like crazy on a trials bike.


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## brad06ag (Dec 17, 2004)

When properly set up, V-brakes can be very powerfull. Choosing the right brake pads is important, Spanish Fly's are pretty good. Also a grind on the rim will greatly enhance the locking power of your brakes


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Vinny A said:


> Ah my bad. I completely understand, I had my terms completely mixed up.
> 
> Do you really think that V-Brakes are good for trials? From my limited experience I have found V brakes to severely lacking in any kind of stopping/clamping power. I think they would slip like crazy on a trials bike.


V's when set-up correctly, with some spanish fly pads and better yet, a ceramic rim, they work great, I had some XTR's and a mavic 521ceramic with the clear pads, and it was nothing but sticky, lost all modulation though...


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

i have hs33s that are post mounted(at least its an adapter and theyre going on my nemesis. i think echo makes coordinated mounts that are colored, but im not entirely sure


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