# 5 Things You Might Have Wrong About IMBA



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Here's a post I just wrote for IMBA's blog. Since this group includes some strong pro-IMBA and anti-IMBA voices I'm offering it here first for your comments, refinements and whatnot.

I'll push it out broadly via social media and other channels in upcoming days.

Thanks in advance (I think) for any feedback you care to post on this thread.

-- Mark E

https://www.imba.com/blog/mark-eller/5-things-you-might-have-wrong-about-imba

*Not to sound defensive, but from time to time we read or hear statements about IMBA that miss the mark. Here are five common misunderstandings and related information to help clear up confusion about how we operate.*

*1.) Sanitizes Trails*

Let's tackle one of the most common accusations first-that IMBA promotes "trail standards" that don't allow for technically challenging riding. Nonsense! IMBA has never published or promoted any kind of "standard" for trail design, and we do not ask local groups to conform to a preordained style of trail building. IMBA does promote the idea that trails should be built to be durable and resistant to erosive forces, which generally means avoiding building on a fall line or otherwise excessively steep grades. But we are all for big drops, committing jumps and burly rock gardens, so long as that is the intended riding experience, and that construction is performed with the land manager's approval.

*2.) No Love for Locals*

It's not unusual to read comments like, "Why would I support a national organization when the trails I care about are at home?" First off, most riders like to visit new places from time to time, so we think they would want trail systems in other locations to be great, too. More importantly, even if the trails that matter most to you are the ones in your backyard you should know that IMBA is putting a big effort into programs that support local-level trails. IMBA's nearly 200 U.S. chapters receive the highest level of support-including grants, training sessions and professional assistance from region-based directors-so they can be more effective than ever before.

*3.) Doesn't Fight Hard Enough*

IMBA was born from the need for advocacy and that continues to be a primary focus of our work. IMBA advocacy team works every day at the local, state and national levels to protect and expand access to trails. Why doesn't IMBA file heaps of lawsuits to open trails? We rarely go that route because it's often the least effective way to create more opportunities for mountain biking-court rulings can get overturned, are expensive to file and it's ultimately hard to predict the outcome. Our focus is on forging effective, long-term partnerships and influencing agencies, lawmakers and other decision makers.

*4.) Won't Work With Other Groups*

Some critics say IMBA is too closely aligned with "wreck-reation" groups and should promote conservation values more frequently. Others are just as loud in taking the opposite view and arguing that we are too sympathetic to conservationists. The balance we actually strive to achieve is to encourage responsible outdoor recreation that respects the natural world and protects its integrity while encouraging people to experience it on bicycles. To that end, we partner with dozens of pro-recreation and pro-conservation groups-the ones that agree that these values are thoroughly compatible.

*5.) Too Big*

Reading some critics of IMBA, you might think we are the size of Microsoft or as powerful as a presidential candidate's favorite super PAC. Think again. There are probably something like 6 or 7 million mountain bike enthusiasts in the U.S. alone. IMBA counts about 80,000 active supporters, or about 1 percent of active riders. If that percentage were to increase by a single decimal point you can be assured that there would be substantially more places to ride, with less risk of losing access, than the reality we face today. (For comparison's sake, The Wilderness Society counts more than 500,000 active supporters and has an operating budget ten times the size of IMBA's.)

Supporting IMBA is easy-register to receive free e-newsletters with a simple signup at imba.com/trail-love. Or become a member by visiting imba.com/join. A basic membership costs $30, less than a decent knobby tire, and comes with great benefits.


----------



## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

What is this "IMBA" you're talking about? Is it a club?


----------



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Sarcasm? If not, it's an association of mountain bike clubs: https://www.imba.com/about with a mission to "create, enhance and preserve great mountain biking experiences."


----------



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

I think it does a good job of explaining the line that IMBA has to walk Mark. Many people (including Congress/most elected politicians) have forgotten that compromise can be a very effective tool to gain ground - get a little bit, show that your way works, get a little bit more - they feel "our side is right, and we should just be able to run rough-shod over the opposition because they're wrong" and don't realize that's not how the world works.

In other news, I will likely soon address they idea that trails are being sanitized or dumbed down, or technical trail is not being built any more in an upcoming Trail Cast episode. (Trail Cast)


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

The fact that IMBA has failed to polarize the majority of riders out there after all these years is a major failure and should tell you that your approach might be wrong, ya think?

Most of your responses are very argumentative and confrontational, I would not want to join an organization that up front tells me I am wrong and they are right so I should pay to join them and things will change.

5 Things *You! Might! Have! Wrong!* About IMBA

The title sets of on the wrong foot and goes downhill from there.

Maybe you could try honey instead of vinegar, but my grandma might be wrong.............


----------



## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

I am not an IMBA member, but I appreciate that there is an organization trying to represent mountain biking on a very large scale. The larger the organization, the less likely it will represent any individual member's perspective--somewhat like political parties. I have never actually talked to anyone in person who has told me outright they are an IMBA member and wouldn't know much of anything about it without these online forums, but the sticker logos are everywhere. Thanks for what you do whether ir not it conforms to anything I would do; I believe mountain biking is better and not worse for IMBA.


----------



## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

Maybe "5 misconceptions of IMBA" would be better. Takes the personal attack out of the statement.

I find myself in meetings with local, state & federal agencies advocating for trails in San Diego. San Diego has the most endangered species in the country. Why? Because we killed just about everything. I find myself up against organizations that have less than 50% of our membership yet the influence they have (read real power) is 1000x ours. Why? Simple. They are a local chapter of a State nonprofit that has a legal department. 

One doesn't have to file a lawsuit to get politicians and other decision makers to take one seriously. One only needs to be known to have the ability to sue. Think nuclear weapons. 

The President of another advocacy group explained that it is not uncommon for one of their representatives to be against BLM in one courtroom while another representative is on the side of BLM in another courtroom. At the end of the day all parties are at the pub drinking beers, together. Why? Because this is about business. It's not personal.

I could start moaning about Chapter fees and the value of being a Chapter but I don't have time. I need to find an attorney and a biologist.

Cheers,

J. Showalter
VP, SDMBA


----------



## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

I also wouldn't discredit the lessons IMBA has learned in trail design that is actively published and shared. I first learned "half bench is half baked" from the IMBA website. That's a standard being promoted, which is good. Average trail grades and max trail grades are also something of standards. Standards are like the wheel, you shouldn't have to reinvent what you're trying to do with each attempt (insert 650b joke). Standards aren't binding unless part of a contract in which one party will be held to them by the other. You should continue to develop and support standards, BUT if I were to ever hear that IMBA is imposing standards anywhere, I would become anti-IMBA pretty quickly. The implementation of standards, or no implementation, should rightly be left to the land managers and trail builders. IMBA supports working in that fashion from what you've just said. Thanks again for providing the resources that you do.

Other organizations have my thanks as well for what they do.


----------



## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

MTB is being clubbed to death. Don't club what you love.


----------



## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Mark E. thank you for this post.

A few (quick) observations.

1) Regional Directors are the main club-to-IMBA interface. They do great work. But sometimes they are overworked. I think a little more understanding on clubs part as to what should be in their wheelhouse and what the regional directors should be doing would help.

2) IMBA can be a bit wishy-washy on communication. I see it with the mailings I get, I saw with the way they handled the insurance thing and with the recent studying of e-bikes.

3) Advocacy is only as important to a person as it is visible to that person. Local advocacy can pretty inexpensive at times and can have big rewards. The current issue at Portland, OR, for example, could cost IMBA little money to fight, but have big rewards. Maybe its not about lawyers. Maybe its about who is elected to a town council. For a city the size of Portland, how much would it take to defeat Amanda Fritz, the anti-biking commissioner that started this mess? Probably less than the hookers-and-coke "donation" to Congressman Conservative Blowhard from Texas for his vote on that wilderness bill. My point is that for a lot of riders, some advocacy deep in the halls of power doesn't mean that much. But seeing that advocacy locally sure makes IMBA look like someone that has your back (personally).


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

CycleKrieg said:


> some advocacy deep in the halls of power doesn't mean that much. But seeing that advocacy locally sure makes IMBA look like someone that has your back (personally).


I share this sentiment. Most of the IMBA devotees/activists in our area are the ones that go to Summits and talk to other like-minded people. They come out of these sessions full of IMBA verbiage and expressing the national sense of success but no real action where we live.

I just saw a photo of our local rep, a great gal, with a local activist, and a Regional Park Cop. Those 3 pow-wowed, bemoaned local mountain biker infractions, spewed the IMBA line of goodness, made nice, and were on their way in an hour. The park district pointed to that picture as a success. I looked at them like they were nuts. What did that do for us? It is like the visiting firman and a photo op.

We are the ones building and organizing the community, raising money, building trails, sponsoring High School teams, developing women riders, talking to land managers, developing PR........I don't see the Summit folks, the choir.


----------



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Thanks, all of you, for the feedback -- much appreciated! Sorry I was slow to reply in recent days after a stomach bug attempted to kill me. 

A few quick thoughts ...

I like the "common misperceptions" suggestion for the title. 

"Most of your responses are very argumentative and confrontational" ... Backatchya! Once in a while I like to fight fire with fire. 

"You should continue to develop and support standards, BUT if I were to ever hear that IMBA is imposing standards anywhere, I would become anti-IMBA pretty quickly" ... As the blog states, we are careful to avoid calling our trail building advice a "standard." And no, we never tell local groups (or land managers) that they have to adhere to that advice. 

"The current issue at Portland, OR, for example, could cost IMBA little money to fight, but have big rewards" ... IMBA and its local chapter NWTA are definitely very involved in the fight and are contributing significant resources to this effort. This includes legal work, though not necessarily an outright suit. 

Thanks again for the comments! 

-- Mark E


----------



## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

In my mind I was thinking along the lines of the American Public Works Association and the standard drawings they publish here: APWA Bookstore

That book is very useful for designers and contractors alike in the public works sector. The drawings and specifications in it are modified and changed as APWA receives feedback. A lot of governing bodies, mostly cities and counties, have adopted those standards, or some parts of those standards with modifications. Some do their own thing, and that's ok too. An IMBA book with nothing but standard drawings would be a fun book for me.

Trails are much simpler, but I wouldn't mind seeing IMBA certified trails and/or trail builders. The trails I've ridden built by people with the IMBA guidlines in mind are some of the best trails around. In truth I should probably join IMBA and buy some of your books, as I've only read what is freely available online and don't know that much about the organization and how it might benefit me personally other than advocating for more bike trails.

Thanks again.


----------



## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*You Forgot One*

Don't forget the one about imba not really caring about the quality of trails. Since you gave Park City a gold level destination award, one can only deduce that it is money based or you did not do your homework, or no one involved in the decision knows how to ride (I seriously doubt the last one).


----------



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Update: We distributed the "Five Things" message to about 80,000 people via e-mail and are now sharing it on social media at facebook.com/IMBAonFB

The responses were mostly very positive, albeit with a few "So what, I still hate you" replies mixed in as well. 

-- Mark


----------



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Mark E said:


> The responses were mostly very positive, albeit with a few "So what, I still hate you" replies mixed in as well.
> 
> -- Mark


Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Skelldify (May 10, 2013)

Even as I type this, one of my favorite little tech loops is scheduled to be re-routed this weekend (it's too steep?). We have a newly formed IMBA chapter, the old one dissolved. From what I've seen they haven't done anything yet (still getting organized?). They have a meeting scheduled in two weeks. I'm trying to get to them before this loop gets re-routed, but I don't even know who to talk to.

Every time I post something like this, I get a personal email from IMBA. Any chance you guys can help on short notice? That'd be 100% worth my membership.


----------



## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

slocaus said:


> The fact that IMBA has failed to polarize the majority of riders out there after all these years is a major failure and should tell you that your approach might be wrong, ya think?
> ...
> 5 Things *You! Might! Have! Wrong!* About IMBA


The title could just have well have been "5 things IMBA is defensive about"

In my professional life, if I had to write something like that; defensively justifying why my customers are paying me, I'm clearly doing something wrong. And frankly, they wouldn't be paying me for long.

I hate to encourage marketing as a practice, but marketing 101 is getting your customers to figure out (and talk about) why your product benefits them.

"No, you're wrong." has never been a convincing argument for anyone.


----------



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Sure, I'd be happy to try and connect you. What is the group's name? What is the name of the trail? 

You can also reach me at markDOTellerATimbaDOTcom


----------



## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

Joules said:


> The title could just have well have been "5 things IMBA is defensive about"
> 
> In my professional life, if I had to write something like that; defensively justifying why my customers are paying me, I'm clearly doing something wrong. And frankly, they wouldn't be paying me for long.
> 
> ...


Shimano tried it when they told us that we didn't want 1x drivetrains. I think at this point in time, "How IMBA can change" to do a better job, is a great conversation to have. Shimano saw their mistake pretty quick. Perhaps IMBA can as well?


----------



## Woodman (Mar 12, 2006)

I could not agree with you and Joules more. Unfortunately, that conversation always gets squashed quickly by the defensiveness attitude currently prevalent with IMBA staff, and those of us whom try and start that conversation are just pushed out and described as haters.



YRG said:


> Shimano tried it when they told us that we didn't want 1x drivetrains. I think at this point in time, "How IMBA can change" to do a better job, is a great conversation to have. Shimano saw their mistake pretty quick. Perhaps IMBA can as well?


----------



## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Looks to me like 5 Reason IMBA Uses to Justify Their Existence.


----------



## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

I don't want to go tit for tat here, but I will say that we received a large number of replies to this message that were very positive. In particular, several chapter leaders wrote to say that the appreciated having some talking points that they could easily reference when commonly heard objections arise. 

As far as the "5 things ..." format, try an online search for "5 things about" or "5 things you didn't know about" and see how many hits occur, including many successful for-profit and non-profit organizations. It's a pretty well established formula.


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

It is difficult to get a measure of who supports and who does not when working in this forum. I know of major organizations who simply write off MTBR as having any representative sense for mountain biking.

I feel that MTBR is, in fact, representative of mountain biking, being less beholden to advertisers, political cultures and such. I'm thinking that larger organizational thinking is so qualified by membership/support/faction that have already chosen, by subscription, to stand by them. As such, attitudes outside of that group-think are difficult to appreciate, let alone embrace. In addition the actual numbers of these groups, however, are a very small fraction of those within the MTBR community.

I'm a great believer in the power and utility of MTBR and have worked hard over many years to develop an advocacy spirit in the NorCal forum. I commend Mark E for trying to work in this venue. It is not an easy place to be and I admire how he has kept his head.


----------



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> I commend Mark E for trying to work in this venue. It is not an easy place to be and I admire how he has kept his head.


Likewise.

The forum and rest of MTBR might be like Mark's stats for the sport - about 1%.


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

That said, can anyone refer to larger and more representative venue than MTBR?


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Berkeley Mike said:


> That said, can anyone refer to larger and more representative venue than MTBR?


Every time I research a new subject concerning mountain biking, I inevitably end up back at MTBR. Tandem mountain biking, drivetrain questions, wheel-building, suspension, trail work and advocacy; with a recent exception that sent me to Singletracks.com when I was searching for biking skills advice.


----------

