# OT? Sugar: The Bitter Truth (a discussion on diet and health)



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

I posted this video in the XC training forum many moons ago, and just thought you guys might like to watch it as well.

It is very informative and controversial. A couple key points from the video:

Sugar is poison.

High Fructose Corn Syrup is the Devil.

Richard Nixon is going to hell.

Beer is better for you than Coke!

Now watch the video!:thumbsup:

Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm interested! Except I looked at the 1:29 length and told myself "Okay... another time."


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Dion said:


> I'm interested! Except I looked at the 1:29 length and told myself "Okay... another time."


I know it is very long. But it is also very worth it!

Let it buffer onto your iphone and listen to it on your next ride - that's what I did.


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

I like this one too...

<embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/EHel5e5VyUxFhH7osCb1Hg" type="application/x-


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Carl Hungus said:


> I like this one too...
> 
> -


what plug in do I need for Hulu content? I cant see this...


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> what plug in do I need for Hulu content? I cant see this...


Hmmm...weird. Per Hulu's support page...

_To enjoy videos at Hulu, you will need the following software installed on your computer:

* Adobe Flash Player 10.0.32 or above
* Internet Explorer 7.0 or above, Firefox 2.0 or above, or Safari 3.0, or Chrome 4.0 or above
* Microsoft Windows XP SP2, Microsoft Windows Vista, Macintosh OS X v10.4 or above, or Linux
* JavaScript and Cookies must also be enabled.

In addition, you will need an internet connection with sufficient bandwidth. Our videos stream at 480Kbps or 700Kbps, and we'll adjust our stream based on your bandwidth, but we recommend a downstream bandwidth of 1000Kbps or higher for the smoothest playback experience. You can test your downstream bandwidth at many websites. Search for "bandwidth test" on the web to find many of the most popular bandwidth test websites.
Some of our videos now come in a 1,000 Kbps, H.264, 480p stream. You can recognize these streams by the 480p Hi-Res button that will appear in the lower right of the player. To watch these high resolution streams, you'll need to upgrade to Flash Player 10.0.32, and we recommend a downstream bandwidth of 1,500Kbps for the smoothest playback experience. _


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Carl Hungus said:


> Hmmm...weird. Per Hulu's support page...
> 
> _To enjoy videos at Hulu, you will need the following software installed on your computer:
> 
> ...


I don't know, I have a brand new macbook and a brand new PC and neither one could even see the link you posted.

can you post it without the imbed?


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> I don't know, I have a brand new macbook and a brand new PC and neither one could even see the link you posted.
> 
> can you post it without the imbed?


SNL: Corn Syrup Commercial


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> what plug in do I need for Hulu content? I cant see this...


That played fine for me with no plugins. The ad at the start didn't play though.

We watched that sugar video a while back, it was pretty enlightening. 
I expect to see one about how animal protein is just as evil. (Read the China Study)

If the 1.5 hour playtime seems like too much, then just read IHB's cliff notes.


> Sugar is poison.
> 
> High Fructose Corn Syrup is the Devil.
> 
> ...


I don't think beer was better, but that the way sugar converts into almost the exact same things that alcohol does. So you might as well just have a beer.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

d-bug said:


> That played fine for me with no plugins. The ad at the start didn't play though.
> 
> We watched that sugar video a while back, it was pretty enlightening.
> I expect to see one about how animal protein is just as evil. (Read the China Study)
> ...


K. I'll run a software update on my mac and try again. I've got my PC running on my mac in VDI and it doesn't work there, either.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

d-bug said:


> I don't think beer was better, but that the way sugar converts into almost the exact same things that alcohol does. So you might as well just have a beer.


Yah, it showed that alchohol and high fructose corn syrup had the same deleterious effects on the liver, but without the beer buzz.

But in a way beer is better for you than coke, because maltose, the sugar in beer does create the leptin response, which tells your body you ate something: whereas high fructose corn syrup does not.

In fact, this is huge - it's one of two primary reasons HFCS is so bad for you. No Leptin response, and effects on the liver.

So, rejoice. Tonight at beer thirty - raise a toast to leptin and good health; pound a beer!:thumbsup:


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Carl Hungus said:


> SNL: Corn Syrup Commercial


that worked.


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## Ryan G. (Aug 13, 2004)

You will have to pry my Mexican Cokes and Beer from my dead, cold hands!


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> ...
> 
> So, rejoice. Tonight at beer thirty - raise a toast to leptin and good health; pound a beer!:thumbsup:


good.

i'm having one of these tonight.


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

CHUM said:


> good.
> 
> i'm having one of these tonight.


Have you tried this one yet?

Me likey!


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## joytron (Sep 5, 2010)

Carl Hungus said:


> SNL: Corn Syrup Commercial


I'm interested! Except I looked at the 1:27 length and told myself "Okay... another time."


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Carl Hungus said:


> Have you tried this one yet?
> 
> Me likey!


YES! mrtoadsc gave me a sample after a niteride yesterday....

very, very good stuff...the malty flavor is a nice balance with the hops.

it does have an 'alcohol' aftertaste...but with this brew it's integrated nicely with the other flavors...

i gotta say, at 10.8% it'll only be 1 bottle....not 2....


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

CHUM said:


> good.
> 
> i'm having one of these tonight.


And suddenly a conversation around leptin and HFCS isn't OT anymore!:thumbsup:


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

CHUM said:


> YES! mrtoadsc gave me a sample after a niteride yesterday....
> 
> very, very good stuff...the malty flavor is a nice balance with the hops.
> 
> ...


Some people say IPA's smell/taste like weed. If so, that stuff is hash oil.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

joytron said:


> I'm interested! Except I looked at the 1:27 length and told myself "Okay... another time."


It may not be for everyone - but for those who like the technical aspects of health and dieting will really benefit from it.


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## joytron (Sep 5, 2010)

iheartbicycles said:


> It may not be for everyone - but for those who like the technical aspects of health and dieting will really benefit from it.


That was in reference to the corn syrup snl skit.


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## amydalayna (Feb 21, 2006)

I just went for a 5 hr bike ride and then drank a Mountain Dew. 
I think I will have to wait to watch the video so I'm not filled with guilt about my high fructose corn syrup consumption.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

CHUM said:


> good.
> 
> i'm having one of these tonight.


Dang. Browsing the norcal forum on a friday afternoon always ends up making me thirsty. :thumbsup:


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## GMM (Mar 2, 2004)

Thanks for posting.

-D-bug: China Study was a great read as well.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

amydalayna said:


> I just went for a 5 hr bike ride and then drank a Mountain Dew.
> I think I will have to wait to watch the video so I'm not filled with guilt about my high fructose corn syrup consumption.


No, HFCS is good for replacing liver stores in endurance athletes. You'll see that in the video.


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## amydalayna (Feb 21, 2006)

iheartbicycles said:


> No, HFCS is good for replacing liver stores in endurance athletes. You'll see that in the video.


are you trying to encourage me to go drink another mountain dew? because i will. it was delicious.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> But in a way beer is better for you than coke, because maltose, the sugar in beer does create the leptin response, which tells your body you ate something: whereas high fructose corn syrup does not.
> 
> In fact, this is huge - it's one of two primary reasons HFCS is so bad for you. No Leptin response, and effects on the liver.


I think alcohol-induced munchies completely cancel out the leptin response.
Plus cirrhosis.
Plus loss of fine motor control and cognition.

Don't even pretend beer is better for you than HFCS.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

beanbag said:


> I think alcohol-induced munchies completely cancel out the leptin response.
> Plus cirrhosis.
> Plus loss of fine motor control and cognition.
> 
> Don't even pretend beer is better for you than HFCS.


It was a bit tongue in cheek. No one would believe beer is good for you!

Don't harsh my mellow, man.:nono:


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## rj2 (Oct 19, 2004)

Carl Hungus said:


> Some people say IPA's smell/taste like weed. If so, that stuff is hash oil.


They do have that skunky pot smell, or so I've heard.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

GMM said:


> Thanks for posting.
> 
> -D-bug: China Study was a great read as well.


I'm not seeing the level of science in the China Study as I am in the HFCS discussion.

Many, many people have debunked the China study as relying on very bad science. I haven't seen anyone even attempt to debunk the HFCS discussion.

It's always a good idea to seek out contrarian opinions when it comes to such subjects as diet - being that they are so prone to religious like zealotry and fervor. I would definitely recomend it here.

I'm definitely not going to reduce my meat consumption any time soon.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> I haven't seen anyone even attempt to debunk the HFCS discussion.


The bitter truth about fructose alarmism. | Alan Aragon's Blog

Here ya go. Sorry for harshing your mellow, or whatever.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

beanbag said:


> The bitter truth about fructose alarmism. | Alan Aragon's Blog
> 
> Here ya go. Sorry for harshing your mellow, or whatever.


Interesting. So this guy argues that HFCS has no different insulin or leptin response than any other sugar.

What about the effects on the liver? that is another major point of Lustigs conversation.

Also, anecdotally Lustig shows that a zero HFCS diet, rich in unprocessed foods can cure metabolic disease and diabetes. Does this blogger/author have any ideas why that might be?


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

So I am reading this post and it reminds me of an experiment I did a long time ago. This post is worth reading as you can do it anytime your at a restaurant with friends. Get a packet of sugar and a packet of salt and put them into separate cups or bags. Have them wet a finger and dip the finger into the salt first and into their mouth. Tell the friend that is going to participate not to say what he or she has in their mouth (just so others don't know). Then have them put their arm up and you try to push it back down to their side. Tell them to resist as much as they can. Then repeat the same thing but this time with the sugar. You will immediately notice how mush easier it is to push their arm down and they can feel it too. Others watching never believe it so you will have to do this many times to many people. It is not that their arm is fatigued from the first push, it is in fact that sugar is actually a poison. Salt is a required element in our bodies and we don't react to it like sugar. I don't care to much about the biology of it but it is a fun bar trick.


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## Bernhardt (Mar 25, 2006)

Any diet low in processed foods is going to be healthier. Processing more or less equals chemicals, reduction in nutrition and all sorts of 'hidden' ingredients to make it taste better(so you eat more of it).

Weight loss is easy: absorb less calories than you burn. Doing it in a healthy timely manner is not.

I don't think simple sugars are bad. Mass consumption of them in foods with questionable value is. Don't forget that fructose is the sugar in fruits(apples, grapes, etc) and some fruits have a pile of it in them. Grapes will yield 14+/- % alcohol when making wine. To get that same alcohol content after fermenting, you would have to add over a pound and a half of (reg white) sugar to a gallon of water. That water tastes one heck of a lot sweeter than a grape does. Which happens to coincide with my personal experience of tasting powdered fructose and sucrose(white gan. sugar) back to back. The fructose just doesn't seem to have as big of a sweet hit - which probably explains why they use so much of it in a can of soda(and it's still cheaper than using sucrose, not to mention more price stable here in the US).


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

iheartbicycles;8454981
Also said:


> I cannot coment on the mechanics of this suggestion but will offer this; a treatment regimen effective in managing a disease or non-healthy condition doesn't necessarily indicate a method for good health in a normal sample. Few of us out here have a metabolic disease.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Heh... automatic disqualification....*

... for anything that calls any 'food' a 'poison' unless it's an actual poison... that is, you have to go straight to the ER for treatment.

It's the same as the 'Nazi' rule in political discussion.

Not saying it's not so good for you, or they don't make a point.....

Fear is the real poison.



iheartbicycles said:


> I posted this video in the XC training forum many moons ago, and just thought you guys might like to watch it as well.
> 
> It is very informative and controversial. A couple key points from the video:
> 
> ...


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

*Heh, automatic disqualification*



pimpbot said:


> ... for anything that calls any 'food' is called 'poison' unless it's an actual poison... that is, you have to go straight to the ER for treatment.
> 
> It's the same as the 'Nazi' rule in political discussion.
> 
> ...


For not watching the video, and then commenting on it. Doh!


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## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)

When I buy drinks, I prefer to get the one that says "sugar" rather than HFCS.

The real poison is that all the corn(although they could plant edible corn rather than the crap they use to make HFCS) and land used to make this crap could be used to feed the hungry, and yes, there are still hungry and starving out there, even though there are no live-aid concerts.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

beanbag said:


> The bitter truth about fructose alarmism. | Alan Aragon's Blog
> 
> Here ya go. Sorry for harshing your mellow, or whatever.


doing a bit more research, it doesn't appear your blogger friend has many friends in medicine. It's notable that the blogger didn't reference any research in his opinion.

Do a search for "HFCS Blocks Leptin" - many studies show that HFCS blocks leptin from entering the brain. - backing Lustigs point that HFCS doesn't create a leptin response.

_"It is now known that excess fructose intake causes elevated triglycerides that block leptin from crossing the blood-brain barrier. Fructose is metabolized by the liver to free fatty acids and triglycerides. Thus, we now know a direct effect of fructose that causes leptin resistance.

What is the Cause of this Leptin Resistance and Insulin Excess?

The most significant change in our environment in the last 30 years, is the huge increase in fructose intake in our diets. Sucrose (table sugar) is 50% fructose, and the very widely used "high fructose corn syrup" is a major ingredient in practically all processed foods (read the labels and you will see it!). Kids are drinking tons of soft drinks and fruit juice (very high in fructose). Most soft drinks are loaded with high fructose corn syrup."_
http://www.healthyweightkids.org/fructoseformd.htm

And another - diets high in fructose cause leptin resistance

_Our data indicate that chronic fructose consumption induces leptin resistance prior to body weight, adiposity, serum leptin, insulin, or glucose increases, and this fructose-induced leptin resistance accelerates high-fat induced obesity_
Fructose-induced leptin resistance exacerbates weight gain in response to subsequent high-fat feeding

So point one for Lustig still seems valid. As does point two - the damage HFCS does to the liver.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

For those unwilling to watch the lengthy video, here's a recap from a lecture I attended months ago on the effects of HFCS, which was eye-opening. Am no doc, so this is a general overview.
Not all sugars are equal, and the more refined the slower to digest. The HFCS commercial IS wrong.

-Alcohol (ethanol) Based on 120 calories, the body can only process 96 calories of ethanol leaving 24 of them to remain in the liver. When repeated excessive drinking occurs liver damage often follows - i.e. self- poisoning, or bypassing the bodies ability to process, and reaching toxic levels.

[ LDL's or low density cholesterol is bad, while HDL's or high density are the good type.]

High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): Is classified as a VLDL Very Low Density Cholesterol, and as such from 120 calories 16 remain undigested - for a long time. The bodies inability to process these VLDL's create a cumulative effect that causes elevated blood sugars. The body cannot break them down, and with continual intake they amass to become toxic, and is then considered a poison.

So, not all sugars are equal, more refined = slower to digest, + HFCS commercial is a blatant lie.
Will drink the beer (poison) to enjoy the buzz, and skip the soda (poison) which messes with one's ability to process sugar.
Time to go ride..


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well...*



iheartbicycles said:


> For not watching the video, and then commenting on it. Doh!


... I got as far as the credits... :blush:

I was referring to so-called health experts who call anything 'poison', not to this video specifically... Like calling Obama a Communist.

just saying... there are certain dog whistle kinda words and terms groups use to make themselves sound like you should listen to their BS.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> ... I got as far as the credits... :blush:
> 
> I was referring to so-called health experts who call anything 'poison', not to this video specifically... Like calling Obama a Communist.
> 
> just saying... there are certain dog whistle kinda words and terms groups use to make themselves sound like you should listen to their BS.


Well, had you watched the video you'd understand why HFCs can correctly be called a poison.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

On a program I recall about 2 years ago it was suggested that anything taken past a certain point can be considered a poison.

What continues to show up in this discussion is the matter of amount of intake. Again, that becomes a matter of dosage and frequency.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> On a program I recall about 2 years ago it was suggested that anything taken past a certain point can be considered a poison.
> 
> What continues to show up in this discussion is the matter of amount of intake. Again, that becomes a matter of dosage and frequency.


Yes. less than 1 full coke is toxic to the human body. Now consider that HFCS is in your coke, your burger bun, the catsup you put on the burger. Your gatorade, your salad dressing, etc. It become a much bigger problem.

You're equivocating doesn't do anyone a service. ingesting HFCS is in no way analogous to Hyponatremia (over ingestion of water).

If you guys dont want to watch the video, that's fine. I just found it to be very informative and thought you might as well. Thanks for reminding me about leading horses to water.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> doing a bit more research, it doesn't appear your blogger friend has many friends in medicine. It's notable that the blogger didn't reference any research in his opinion.
> 
> Do a search for "HFCS Blocks Leptin" - many studies show that HFCS blocks leptin from entering the brain. - backing Lustigs point that HFCS doesn't create a leptin response.


The article contains plenty of references. Look for the little numbers at the ends of sentences and the list of references at the end of the article.

He did not make the case that fructose does not have a leptin response, only that fructose does not significantly affect subsequent food intake compared to other sugars.

In any case, the Leptin response is a non-issue for at least two reasons. One is that fructose doesn't occur by itself anyway - it is either attached to fiber or glucose. Second, the taste of foods has a greater effect on satiety than whether the sugar is fructose or glucose. People will naturally eat more of something that tastes good, and it just happens to contain fructose. If I mixed you up a glass of fructose + nasty, it will kill your appetite, whether or not you have a leptin response.

BM is totally right that everything has to be considered in the context of degrees. If Coke is toxic, an apple is 1/3 as toxic.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Sorry, Iheart. I should never have contributed here. It's just that I have worked with bulemics, anorexics and every kind of foodie/religious nut you can imaging. Atkins, Paleo, pinapple, fat free, no meat, no diary, gluten free; the list is huge. In the end we've figured out that we need many of those things, some more than others and some less. The Food Pyramid has turned into a Plate. And now someone has finally figured out that we can eat eggs again and if you let cheese age more lactose intolerant folk can enjoy it.

A recent article in Time by a cardio surgeon did a pretty nice survey of what we used to think and what we think now. In the end? All things in moderation. Balance. Exercise. Genetics.

Sugar is poison. The devil? Sorry. Not worth my time.

So forgive me if I equivocate and if you think I have wasted yours. 

No, really. My bad.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Eat lots more fruit. Eat lots more veggies, especially the green leafy kind. After that, enjoy whatever the heck you want in limited quantities. Eat real food, not food-like substances. If you find you are addicted to something, avoid it like the plague. Do lots of strenuous exercise. Man, such simple rules, and so easy to break. At least we get good exercise.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> A recent article in Time by a cardio surgeon did a pretty nice survey of what we used to think and what we think now. In the end? All things in moderation. Balance. Exercise. Genetics.
> 
> Sugar is poison. The devil? Sorry. Not worth my time.


There are many things that we should not experience even in moderation. As the world changes, the risk of long-term health problems caused by our food increases. Chemical compounds from plastics, pesticides, hormones, etc. have all been labeled "poisons" because they harm the body, and I'd rather not have any of them in my diet (even in moderation.) Fructose has been shown to harm the body also, and since it's in many different foods, over-consumption has become part of the American culture.

It's good to get people thinking about fructose because it is a risk factor for obesity and diabetes. Calling it a poison may be a little sensational, but I think it's necessary to spark the discussion.


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

shredchic said:


> Eat lots more fruit. Eat lots more veggies, especially the green leafy kind. After that, enjoy whatever the heck you want in limited quantities. Eat real food, not food-like substances. If you find you are addicted to something, avoid it like the plague. Do lots of strenuous exercise. Man, such simple rules, and so easy to break. At least we get good exercise.


"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants". -Michael Pollan.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Subscribed.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Carl Hungus said:


> "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants". -Michael Pollan.


Yeah, I should attribute "eat food, not food-like substances" to Michael Pollan.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Just more junk science from a discredited junk scientist.

Of course too much sugar is bad for you -- any kind of sugar, not just HFCS. Too much of anything is bad for you, including organic carrots and soybeans.

Eat a variety of foods, as low on the processing scale as possible, watch your meat, fat, and sugar consumption, and don't worry about the occasional twinkie or soda pop. As long is the rest of your diet is healthy the occasional twinkie and soda pop will not hurt you. Make them the mainstay of your diet and you will have problems. 

Eating healthy does not mean you have to live like an ascetic monk.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

dave54 said:


> Just more junk science from a discredited junk scientist.


Why would you even say this? It's embarrassing that someone on the NorCal forum could say something like this about a fellow NorCal citizen, let alone a pediatric doctor who does great things for the community. It's highly unlikely that you even comprehend the science behind what he's talking about, let alone are an authority in the field. Nice work calling him a "discredited junk scientist" when it's likely he's done more to help the world than you'll ever do.

You fail.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

jtmartino said:


> Why would you even say this? It's embarrassing that someone on the NorCal forum could say something like this about a fellow NorCal citizen, let alone a pediatric doctor who does great things for the community. It's highly unlikely that you even comprehend the science behind what he's talking about, let alone are an authority in the field. Nice work calling him a "discredited junk scientist" when it's likely he's done more to help the world than you'll ever do.
> 
> You fail.


Your child-like faith in every whack job blowhard on you tube is amusing...It's pathetic losers like you that fail.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

dave54 said:


> Your child-like faith in every whack job blowhard on you tube is amusing...It's pathetic losers like you that fail.


Wow, good one.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

*High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): = corn sugar*

High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): now goes by the name: CORN SUGAR:skep:


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## wreckedrex (May 2, 2007)

He never really harps on hfcs in the vid, other than to say its cheapness leads to food manufacturers cramming more sugar into more of the stuff we eat. The three examples used in the liver bit were white bread (glucose), whiskey (ethanol) and orange juice (fructose)... No hfcs in any of it.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

its silly to think HFCS is worse for you than any other sugar. all sugar is bad for you. how bad depends on how much you eat.
(this being an mtb forum, it is worth noting that sugar immediately after a ride or exercise is in fact good for you- and the only time you should eat sugar)


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Evan55 said:


> its silly to think HFCS is worse for you than any other sugar. all sugar is bad for you. how bad depends on how much you eat.
> (this being an mtb forum, it is worth noting that sugar immediately after a ride or exercise is in fact good for you- and the only time you should eat sugar)


This is wrong, according to a large number of scientists, doctors, and people who have done research on the subject. There's a difference between glucose and fructose - whether or not it's significant to humans under normal consumption is debatable. I suggest you go do some research on that difference before you claim that all sugar is equal.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

lol :facepalm:
not surprisingly you miss the point. (and conveniently you provide no references)

Fructose and glucose are distributed rougly evenly in all popular sugars, including hfcs. I suggest _you_ do some research.

The point is to minimzie all sugar intake. Pull your head out of your arse and stop hyperventilating about fructose. There is no (commonly used) sweetner that is pure fructose.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Evan55 said:


> lol :facepalm:
> not surprisingly you miss the point. (and conveniently you provide no references)
> 
> Fructose and glucose are distributed rougly evenly in all popular sugars, including hfcs. I suggest _you_ do some research.
> ...


You said "all sugar is bad for you" which is not only wrong, it's silly. I pointed out that glucose is not fructose. I have the scientific background to explain the difference and the physiological processes involved in the metabolism of both. Do you?

I did not say HFCS is worse than sucrose. I said that there's a difference between glucose and fructose. Perhaps you aren't aware that fructose is metabolized in the liver (via gluconeogenesis) and glucose is metabolized everywhere? And that many foods contain one or the other?

I'm not "hyperventilating about fructose," I'm trying to prevent the spread of falsehoods by people like you. Since you criticized me for not providing references on a point that is well-established, here you go:

Glucose vs. Fructose in the brain:

The difference between fructose and glucose: it's not all in your mind - Los Angeles Times

Metabolism of Glucose vs. Fructose:

U of I Study: Fructose Metabolism More Complicated than Was Thought

Fructose

Consuming fructose-sweetened, not glucose-swee... [J Clin Invest. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

If you have the ability to read the above articles, I suggest you do so. There are thousands more links I could have provided, but I don't have the time nor the energy. Or simply do a search on your own, and start reading about the differences between the two.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

*dave54*, *Evan55 *& *jtmartino*...

you do realize that you're getting all ornery about _sugar _right?

stop the name calling.

thanks!
- CHUM


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

CHUM said:


> you do realize that you're getting all ornery about _sugar _right?


There are way too many obese people in America. Just trying to do my part .


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

In fairness, I think Evan's point is that the difference between fructose and glucose is not so important if most sugar sweetened foods contain roughly equal amounts of both (from HFCS or sucrose). 

So many of the academic studies compare pure glucose to pure fructose, but in the grocery store, neither one of those are common choices. If they were, I can see the argument for picking glucose. But, in reality, we choose between HFCS or sucrose, and in that case, the best answer is avoid sugar, period.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> the best answer is avoid sugar, period.


My solution, YMMV.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> My solution, YMMV.


and bread, and jam, and fruit juice and salad dressing and ketchup and yogurt, and, and and...

The problem is they put HFCS is almost everything these days.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

iheartbicycles said:


> and bread, and jam, and fruit juice and salad dressing and ketchup and yogurt, and, and and...
> 
> The problem is they put HFCS is almost everything these days.


True that, my diet consists of fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grain, eggs, a bit of fish, a bit of honey with some hemp protein thrown in occasionally. Been doing this for a couple of months now, never felt better. Gave up bread, dairy, processed grain and most importantly sugar. Lost 22 lbs. in 60 days rather painlessly too.


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## adrenaline.junkie (Sep 15, 2011)

iheartbicycles said:


> and bread, and jam, and fruit juice and salad dressing and ketchup and yogurt, and, and and...
> 
> The problem is they put HFCS is almost everything these days.


Oh? Behold...the Anabolic Diet.

Whole eggs, full fat cheese, fatty steak and ground beef, fish.

I know I'm going to get flamed for advocating a diet nearly entirely devoid of carbs but I don't care. It won't be by anybody who can squat, bench, dead lift, power clean, or military press more than me so IDGAF.

But on a serious note, I wouldn't recommend a carb-less diet for anybody who participates in any endurance-based activity or sport because the two don't mix...I learned that from personal experience. The best way to do it is to try to avoid sugar and processed foods as much as possible. If you aren't willing to, I hope you enjoy dying fat and gross looking...and fat.

Here's the how-to for being in shape:
Eat clean unprocessed foods if you want to live and be not fat.
Exercise or your heart will wither in your chest.
If it contains HFCS, it's not clean.
Water. WATER!


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> In fairness, I think Evan's point is that the difference between fructose and glucose is not so important if most sugar sweetened foods contain roughly equal amounts of both (from HFCS or sucrose).
> 
> So many of the academic studies compare pure glucose to pure fructose, but in the grocery store, neither one of those are common choices. If they were, I can see the argument for picking glucose. But, in reality, we choose between HFCS or sucrose, and in that case, the best answer is avoid sugar, period.


:thumbsup:
nice to see _someone_ understands


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Paleo, baby, but avoid factory-farmed grown meats tainted with synthetic growth hormones or antibiotics: eat pastured, grass-fed, wild, or free-range for the fats that heals and the betterment for the planet, since factory farms demand grain that demand clear cutting for more agri-business big farms.

plant's, such as salads or kale, are good, sugar's bad, fruit's good, and refined grain, beer, is bad, but some beers are worth the cost. 

Soy's bad (grown with synthetic growth hormones), esp. for children and for people with thyroid health issues.

Eat only "happy" and natural or organic plants and meats. If you eat meats that have been raised with "extreme" confinement, pain, and suffering, along with gov't subsidies, then you and your planet gets what you deserve.

Don't eat too many of any one thing. Now the hard part, for us with weight to lose, is to eat less than you want.


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## adrenaline.junkie (Sep 15, 2011)

TrailNut said:


> Eat only "happy" and natural or organic plants and meats. If you eat meats that have been raised with confinement, pain, and suffering, along with gov't subsidies, then you and your planet gets what you deserve.


I agree with you on farm subsidies but veal is delicious because it's marinated in tears.

Everybody knows that.


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

adrenaline.junkie said:


> I agree with you on farm subsidies but veal is delicious because it's marinated in tears.
> 
> Everybody knows that.


Can't argue with taste. I like occasional croissants or Chilean sea bass myself. 
I was addressing what's healthy for you and our planet.

Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill: The Complete Guide to Fats, Oils, Cholesterol and Human Health [Paperback] by Udo Erasmus

The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability by Lierre Keith (May 1, 2009)


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> True that, my diet consists of fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grain, eggs, a bit of fish, a bit of honey with some hemp protein thrown in occasionally. Been doing this for a couple of months now, never felt better. Gave up bread, dairy, processed grain and most importantly sugar. Lost 22 lbs. in 60 days rather painlessly too.


Try the whole hemp seed, I used to use the powder but for a little more money per pound the whole seed tastes better and is easier to eat by itself. The EFAs (fat) in hemp I believe are similar in balance to red meat ... Which we is ! So I believe they really help muscle recovery ! :thumbsup:


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