# Lincoln Electric TIG Welding class recap



## zank (May 19, 2005)

I've been spamming this link around to forums that I think it might be of use to. I'm attending Lincoln Electric's Welding School this week for their TIG class. I'll be recapping each day on my blog. I just posted my day 1 recap.

Day 1

I'll post each day and update this thread. Hopefully it is of use to somebody who might be considering this class.


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## Kavik (Apr 13, 2007)

Sounds great, Mike. Nothing like getting instruction at the Mother Ship.

Two quick bits of advice...Try to always steady both hands and get your face right down in there. Seeing whats happening in the puddle on thin stuff is critical.

Good luck, can't wait to see the results.

Brian


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

It will be interesting to see if you really enjoy it.

I thought the same way as you. More options, pricing etc. At least for me this is what happened. I got pretty good at TIG, better than most, not as good as some. I don't do it anymore.

I don't enjoy it. More of a chore than anything and the reality is that there are quite a few TIG builders who will always be better than me because they have the touch and stay in form. What I am really good at is lugs and fillet so my advice is maybe consider not doing something you will only be fair to good at, the world has enough mediocrity. You are great at lugs and that can be enough. Let the tire kicker price shoppers hit the other 150 builders who are specialists at TIG.

The good thing is that I use TIG a lot for non-bike related stuff so it is a super handy skill to have.

Look forward to the updates!


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

Mike,

Congrats on expanding your skill set, I think you'll have a blast.

Can't believe you are in town and didn't call...find me and I'd be glad to host you for dinner and an evening, would be a nice break 

cheers,

rody


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

Day 2 recap is up. Plus a ton of pictures of burnt up metal HERE.

https://bikesbyzank.blogspot.com/2011/04/day-2-lincoln-electrics-gtaw-tig.html


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

Rody, I didn't realize you lived in Cleveland. I have one more night. Sorry. Really bad planning on my part! If you are around tomorrow night, let me know.

Brian, thanks for the support! It's great having you back in the community. I still remember our chat back in vegas all those years ago.

Dave, thanks for the feedback. I just hope it becomes another bullet in the arsenal. And to be totally honest, I don't get a lot of clients who buy my bikes based on the joining technique. It's more about having a connection based on common interests in the use of the bikes. We'll see how it all shakes out, but right now I am super excited about the possibilities.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

Just remember this, anybody can learn to weld if they really want to (that doesn't mean you will be great at it) Keep at it.

Glad to see you are stepping into the 80's


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

So true. Funny thing is the instructors have been asking me about brazing. More as a strange curiosity though!


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

I spent 8 months in welding school, didn't spend a single minute talking about brazing or gas welding.


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## wbarocsi (Jul 22, 2008)

Most welding schools teach very little brazing. It may be mentioned in passing, or they may spend a class trying it out, but almost always with brass. Silver, aluminum, etc rarely even come up. If the welders aren't taught, it doesn't become part of their tool set, and isn't used even if it it would be a superior technique. The whole welding industry seems only concerned with cost. Very little time is spent asking which process is best for a particular use, just least expensive, and fastest. When brazing is used it is frequently as a last resort, when nothing else works. 
I find the situation disheartening because brazing is so under used in industry, and there have been a great many technological advancements that make the process better than it has ever been. At NVCC my class is the only one that does any brazing. The full time program doesn't spend any time on it.
... and don't even get me started on gas welding! Nothing is better than melting metal with a flame!

Nice welds Mike!

Wade Barocsi 
CycleDesignUSA.com
NVCC Welding Instructor


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks Wade,

I will add that although brazing is not often used in light industrial it is commonly used in very high end application either through induction heating or furnace heating.

Thank god for that. One should sleep easy knowing that the turbine blades of that 737 they are on are palladium brazed titanium to a high strength stainless hub. There are many other examples but I think it is sad that the concepts are not even addressed in welding courses.

By doing such a thing you severely limit the knowledge and ultimate earning potential of a welder when all they know is how to use a single or maybe at best two processes.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

dbohemian said:


> Thanks Wade,
> 
> I will add that although brazing is not often used in light industrial it is commonly used in very high end application either through induction heating or furnace heating.
> 
> ...


Dave, it's funny you bring that up. I learned about brazed aluminum recently. One of the products that I sell for a living--and I have to be careful how I word this--goes on an aircraft and houses electronics let's say. It is assembled and the whole mess is stuck in an oven and brought up to temperature to braze it into one solid structure. Gotta keep those electronics safe at multiple Gs.


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## Stevoo (Mar 9, 2007)

Reminds me of the dip brazed aluminum aircraft chassis that I worked on. They were shimmed with the filler tacked and then dipped in a molten salt bath. High G fighter aircraft stuff. The owner's son dip brazed a lugged bike frame. Never did see it though. Tons of race car aluminum tubing stuff dip brazed at their shop. Kind of interesting.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

Stevoo said:


> Reminds me of the dip brazed aluminum aircraft chassis that I worked on. They were shimmed with the filler tacked and then dipped in a molten salt bath. High G fighter aircraft stuff. The owner's son dip brazed a lugged bike frame. Never did see it though. Tons of race car aluminum tubing stuff dip brazed at their shop. Kind of interesting.


Now that you mention the salt bath, I think that's right--no oven--molten salt bath and it's the same application. I like when a program needs a couple hundred of those.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

dbohemian said:


> Thank god for that. One should sleep easy knowing that the turbine blades of that 737 they are on are palladium brazed titanium to a high strength stainless hub. There are many other examples but I think it is sad that the concepts are not even addressed in welding courses.
> 
> By doing such a thing you severely limit the knowledge and ultimate earning potential of a welder when all they know is how to use a single or maybe at best two processes.


To keep it in perspective though, 99% of folks are taking a trade welding course and not a Master's or Doctorate program.

I'm gonna' use Dave's post as a springboard (I know Dave knows this stuff): you can't expect to learn all aspects of welding in a month course or a year course or even a 4 year course. I've been welding over 30 years and have taken advanced coursework via ASME, API, AWS, etc, got a CWI stamp (those who can't do, inspect!) in '93 or '94, and there's a cubic metric shitload more about welding/brazing that I don't know than what I do know. You'd have to work fulltime in the industry as a welding engineer to stay up on all the technologies; it's a very diverse field.

My vote is still for explosive welding as being the coolest. Want to weld aluminum to steel? No problem, hand me that grenade...


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

DWF said:


> My vote is still for explosive welding as being the coolest. Want to weld aluminum to steel? No problem, hand me that grenade...


Great, now someone is going to want to be the first to market in frame building with this--the benefits of both materials in the same frame!


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

DWF said:


> My vote is still for explosive welding as being the coolest.


In the welding without welding department, there's also friction stir welding to make you go "huh?".


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## bee (Apr 7, 2008)

Hey Zank, really awesome blogging. See if the course gives you guys a discount on a new welder. Often times, prices are heavily discounted for these classes for their students.

Can you out in a blurb on your blog about the good Lincoln welders for thin-wall applications? The bike industry TIG guys use mostly Miler, I think because that is just what people are familiar with, but slot of motorsports guys use Lincoln.


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

Hi Bee,
There was a cursory mention of a deal, but it wasn't anything to write home about. I had better quotes on a V205 from my local Airgas and certainly better prices are out there online. I was holding off to see if they were going to give us a deal. But there are better deals out there. 

The thinnest stuff we had was 0.030 304 and 1018. I'll get some pictures up. I really liked the Lincoln machine, but I only have an hours worth of experience on a Miller Dyansty 200DX. The high speed pulse was really nice. I had it set at 225 Hz. The puddle stayed exactly where I wanted it. It also gave me an auditory sign of my arc length. When I'd start getting a little too far away. When I was nice and tight, there was no buzz. But again, I'm not going to be a good person to compare since I'm such a beginner. 

I think the motorsports guys are using Lincoln more due to Lincoln's support and sponsorship in racing. I think it's all about familiarity, but that's just my theory.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

bee said:


> Can you out in a blurb on your blog about the good Lincoln welders for thin-wall applications? The bike industry TIG guys use mostly Miler, I think because that is just what people are familiar with, but slot of motorsports guys use Lincoln.


I'd trade my Dynasty for a precision tig without any arm twisting. I've only spent a few weeks using the Lincoln but I was really impressed with how stable the arc was at low amperage. Notably better than my Dynasty or any other Miller I've used. I don't think I'd ever buy another inverter machine either.

Welding machine choice seems to be very specific for the task. Most general fab shops in my experience use miller for wire feed and GTAW. Go to a pipe line project and you will be hard pressed to find something with a blue cover. Both companies are rather reputable and build good machines across the range, some better suited to a specific task than others. Zank is right on the auto racing guys using Lincoln because of sponsor interests as well.


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## bee (Apr 7, 2008)

customfab said:


> I'd trade my Dynasty for a precision tig without any arm twisting. I've only spent a few weeks using the Lincoln but I was really impressed with how stable the arc was at low amperage. Notably better than my Dynasty or any other Miller I've used. I don't think I'd ever buy another inverter machine either.
> 
> well.


I had a similar experience as well. I've tried both a Lincoln Square Wave welder and the comparable Miller welder, can't recall if it was the Miller Dynasty or Maxter. The arc on the Lincoln was way more stable than the Miller at lower amps. And it's low amps that is needed to weld thinner metals. I have more experiencing with brazing so I thought I was imagining things, but good to know I'm not crazy. Lincoln is good stuff.


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

Day 3 is up.

http://bikesbyzank.blogspot.com/2011/04/day-3-lincoln-electrics-gtaw-tig.html


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## Kavik (Apr 13, 2007)

customfab said:


> I'd trade my Dynasty for a precision tig without any arm twisting. I've only spent a few weeks using the Lincoln but I was really impressed with how stable the arc was at low amperage. Notably better than my Dynasty or any other Miller I've used. I don't think I'd ever buy another inverter machine either.


I much prefer Lincoln. The Miller Dynasty is overrated. I use Dynasty 350 at work, and it struggles to keep arc stability at every turn. The Lincoln 355 at my other shop is dead stable on everything I strike an arc on.

I have not tried the Lincoln Invertec machines yet, but I'm going to look at them very soon. Any body tried one yet?


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

I was using the Invertec 205. I'm thinking it's going to be the machine I buy.


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## wbarocsi (Jul 22, 2008)

At school, we have Thermal Arc 185's, Lincoln Invertec 205's, and the 275 Precision Tig transformer. The Thermal arc has greater adjustability. The 205's stock torch has a single fitting, with argon routed through the center. The Thermal Arc, and Precision TIG have more standard torches. I prefer the Thermal Arc for TIG. As a stick welder, the Invertec is simply the best machine that I have ever used! It is way better than all others that I have used. I've only briefly used the Dynasty, and it seemed great, but a bit noisy. Miller's menu seemed more cumbersome, but it is probably just familiarity.
Consider what brands your local repair facility deals with. That is probably more important than the differences between inverters

Wade Barocsi
CycleDesignUSA
NVCC Welding


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## damon_2 (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks for the updates, I have always wondered how a welding class would be like. It's like I am there. I am considering studying welding soon when time permits. I somehow got an overview of what to expect so thanks for this. :thumbsup:


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

Happy to help!


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## vulture (Jan 13, 2004)

Way to go Mike. Unlike Dave, I love tig welding. I don't love brazing as much because of flux, (personal preference)messy gooey crap. It is a necessary evil. I like it when the hood is down and the world goes away, just a bright bead of light and my hands. I also like the "what you see is what you get" aspect of welding. Bike welding is funny, in that everybody is a judge of quality, regardless of their knowledge, and so many people building frames have no connection to any other industries, there are a lot of undercut, and underfilled weld pictures out on the indoornet, that people are gushing about, My welding game changed a ton when it started getting visual inspection and non destructive testing by trained and experienced professionals. Sadly welding is my favorite part, but the least amount of time per frame, all that cutting and fitting takes me way longer. I have had my miller maxstar for 10 years and it has always been more capable than me. Just like my bike, I have yet to reach its maximum performance.


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## zank (May 19, 2005)

I'm with you, Wade. Nothing like being under the hood. And I love learning as much as I can about the metallurgy and heat treatment. I've been lucky to have some local aerospace guys around to really critique things. They are all so adamant about certain (and different) things. It's really helped. The common theme though is preparation and cleanliness are so critical. It just can't be stressed enough. Another common theme is they are each surprised that some guys don't back purge steel at the thicknesses we are using. What gets me is seeing pictures or reading posts with basic rules being broken, such as not back purging stainless tubing or hearing about guys using 308 wire on steel. I guess we can only worry about our own stuff. But yeah...welding is awesome. The lack of flux is a huge bonus


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