# Ditching traditional bikes after e-bike?



## elee325 (Sep 27, 2006)

I have been contemplating on acquiring an e-bike, but I fear that I will end up ditching the other three high-end 29ers sitting in the garage. Can anybody shed some light on their experience based on acquiring an e-bike and how that changed their riding habits? :thumbsup:


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Today i used my 21 pounds HT 29er and it is just a nice change.
Last 3.5 months i enjoy my first Ebike 27.5 +, it is now in the shop.
So without a car i need 3 bikes, a regular fat for snow fun, an Ebike to pedal to the trails, play there than pedal back. A plan B, backup bike. Obviously at the price of an Ebike you will likely sell 1 or 2 bikes but if you have room there is no need to limit yourself to 1. 
It is just nice if they are not copies.
My fat has 90 mm rims
my 27+ is on 40 mm rims
my 29 er has tiny rims.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You already have three 29ers? Do you ride all of them? Sell one and get an ebike. 

Consider getting an ebike that doesn’t overlap with your existing bikes, maybe a 27.5 for chunk, enduro, and lapping the DH Hill.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Hell no. I love the e-bike for what I think of fast, quick, dirty, and easy rides. Perfect for when I have limited time or am hurt. If it's a weekend and I have all day, the e-bike doesn't even get a second look or thought!


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Most ebikes are like cruiser bikes, even if they have 150+mm travel forks. Their chainstays are long and they're heavy, not easy to manhandle esp if they have a long wheelbase.

You're going to likely want to keep a short wheelbase bike w/short chainstay around for fun.

There's a short list of ebikes that ride like a legit dialed mountain bike: like a Rocky Mtn Altitude Powerplay, Pivot Shuttle, Lapierre eZesty, Canyon Spectral:On, Fezzari Wire Peak, Vitus E-Sommet, YT Decoy... these *might* allow you to ditch your bicycles, but variety is the spice of life.

P.S. if you're between M and L, upsize to L. You may be tempted to downsize to make it more "agile", but any manual/wheelie that you pop will come straight back down, since the front-heavy weight bias is too great. It's counter-intuitive, but I recommend getting the larger size, esp for the Wire Peak, E-Sommet, and Decoy. Heck, go XL on these 3 if you can. You will be able to hit drops without even doing much to keep it level, due to the longer front end and the speed and stability it allows. Also, consider a -2d angleset, longer fork, and 29er front...


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Why 'fear' not using your existing bikes, enjoy the choices you've given yourself.
If you want to see where ebike design is going, especially now that the new Bosch motor is allowing designers to shorten chainstay length, have a look at the recent EMBN videos on YT.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I ride my Ebike one day and my Stumpy the following day since there's a difference in the work out even though I keep the same cadence, it just doesn't workout the same legs muscles. Also, am able to keep my endurance/stamina at a good level by switching between them.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Nash04 said:


> I ride my Ebike one day and my Stumpy the following day since there's a difference in the work out even though I keep the same cadence, it just doesn't workout the same legs muscles. Also, am able to keep my endurance/stamina at a good level by switching between them.


Ya muscles are specific. I ride a bike daily last 20 years. I get home feeling good than going up 3 levels using the stairs and it feels difficult but 2 min ago pedaling was easy.


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## Ted (Jan 29, 2004)

I haven't ridden my Santa Cruz since I got my Levo four months ago. I am enjoying the Levo too much to look back.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

elee325 said:


> I have been contemplating on acquiring an e-bike, but I fear that I will end up ditching the other three high-end 29ers sitting in the garage.


Let's just assume you get an e-bike and never want to ride your 3 fancy mountain bikes again. For any given person who is a mountain biker participation in that sport will end one way or another. In the past it was injury, family commitments, risk aversion or death [I am aware this is not a complete list] that factored into the change. So now we can add e-bike to the list of reasons why you might not mountain bike again.

Assuming you are enjoying the e-bike than you can probably let go of your mountain bikes to fund that e-bike or the next one without any bad feelings. Everything has to end at some point.

The only four main downsides to getting rid of your mountain bikes I can think of are:

1. you can't ride certain trail networks because they don't allow e-bikes
2. you can't ride with certain friends/riding groups if they are not e-bike friendly or typically ride e-bike prohibited trails
3. you travel a bunch by air and flying with an e-bike is an hassle
4. you are concerned you'll get less exercise with an e-bike vs. a mountain bike

If these ^^ seem like issues to you perhaps you can keep one of your mountain bikes to deal with issues #1, #2 & #3? For #4 perhaps you can ride more on the e-bike, push harder and/or ride without assist some of the time to get whatever you feel is sufficient exercise?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Well considering possibilities, you sell your car retire earlier
is that bad?


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## MoWind (Jun 13, 2019)

I ordered a YT Decoy late May, got it a few days ago, I love it. I ordered a YT Jeffsy during their 4th of July sale (15% off) to replace my 2011 26" XC bike. At first I thought I would only need the Decoy, but after ordering it I learned how restricted ebikes are on many trails in the US (as opposed to Europe, where they seem to be embraced). That made me realize I would still need an acoustic bike, and after doing a head plant on my 2011 bike (on the 4th of July) I decided to go for modern geo and a more stable downhill capability. I love the Jeffsy, even though it is considerably slower climbing than my old XC bike, it's a lot more stable descending. Until ebikes have more or less full access to single track trails in the US, I don't see how you get by with only an ebike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

33red said:


> Well considering possibilities, you sell your car retire earlier
> is that bad?


If you can get rid of a car because you got an e-bike that's great. I don't think that's all that likely for the dirt oriented models we are talking about on MTBR. Personally I can ride my mountain bikes to the trails 1hr away, do a 3hr ride and than ride back 1hr. I still have a car because there are trails networks further away I want to ride and for road trips.

If I was only riding at my closest trail networks and around town I could get rid of my car now and that's without owning an e-bike.


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

I got my canyon spectral three monthes ago and have logged 600 km on it. There are two 26 and two 29 ers in the garage that have all been ridden last week and I plan to keep then all for a long time, each one has a place in my heart. Now I plan to downgrade the tires of the ebike to a similar 2,25/2,4 I use on the other bikes so the skills transition more seamless when i change bikes, because traction of the 2,8 27,5 on the rear is other worlds stuff.


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## elee325 (Sep 27, 2006)

MoWind said:


> I ordered a YT Decoy late May, got it a few days ago, I love it. I ordered a YT Jeffsy during their 4th of July sale (15% off) to replace my 2011 26" XC bike. At first I thought I would only need the Decoy, but after ordering it I learned how restricted ebikes are on many trails in the US (as opposed to Europe, where they seem to be embraced). That made me realize I would still need an acoustic bike, and after doing a head plant on my 2011 bike (on the 4th of July) I decided to go for modern geo and a more stable downhill capability. I love the Jeffsy, even though it is considerably slower climbing than my old XC bike, it's a lot more stable descending. Until ebikes have more or less full access to single track trails in the US, I don't see how you get by with only an ebike.


I actually own a YT Jeffsy 29er. Great bike. If I do decide to get an ebike, I will definitely consider going with YT Industries. Based on all the inputs here, I think it wouldn't hurt to add an ebike to my staples. Just another type of riding I guess. There is a 4,000 ft climb that I sometimes am hesitant to go on but an ebike will takt that hesistancy away. Happy riding guys...


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## rancher52 (Aug 16, 2019)

I've been in 2 wheel sports riding for 40 years, with the price of good top tier non motorized Bicycles, I'm thinking that if I had to choose one ,E-bike all the way, why limit yourself, you can cover as much ground pushing pass your limit and make it home even if you out did yourself physically, IMOP. yes the draconian e-bike Ban is most distracting, one thing Europe got right, we're very selfish in USA, maybe rightly so.?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

ninjichor said:


> You're going to likely want to keep a short wheelbase bike w/short chainstay around for fun.


A normal bike is way more fun. It just can't climb as fast or go on relatively flat surfaces as fast. But it's a lot more fun, and safe, downhill than a heavier bike that's not really balanced. Even a mid-drive is going to have some front weight bias if the battery is on the downtube. How are you going to balance that out of the frame? Add weight to the back? Center of gravity is not just vertical, it's front/back too.

Fire roads and easy singletrack, e-bike is fine. Real downhill trails = non-ebike for sure.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Most ebikes are like cruiser bikes, even if they have 150+mm travel forks. Their chainstays are long and they're heavy, not easy to manhandle esp if they have a long wheelbase.
> 
> You're going to likely want to keep a short wheelbase bike w/short chainstay around for fun.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is that I measured both my ebike and 2016 Stumpy and they're the same chainstay measurement which is 17.5 " .


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Everyone's experience is going to be different. 

I've had a Kenevo for 2 years and ride it less than 20% of the time. I've bought two normal bikes since acquiring the Kenevo. 

The e-bike is great when I'm just not "feeling it". Perhaps after a long day or week of work and I'm mentally drained. Times when if I were to hop on a regular bike, I'd just be slogging it up the climbs due to lack of motivation. Then, rewarded with some awesome downhills, I'm mentally reinvigorated and can do a proper ride the next day. 

Also great when it's late in the day and I really don't have time to do a full on ride. An e-bike may limit how much power it can deliver, but it doesn't limit how much power YOU can deliver. I can get in a proper workout, and ride for an hour at 90% FTP and get in three laps whereas on a regular bike I'd only be able to get in one. 

Finally, e-bikes are great for recovery days. The previous day you rode 4-5 hours and you just want to spin out the legs.

So why don't I just ride the e-bike all the time? It's just different. Super fun for sure, but there's something about a real bike you just don't get from an e-bike. Again, YMMV. Some people will ditch the regular bikes and never go back to them. I'm just not in that camp. I don't race XC, but I do care about fitness and power numbers.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Nash04 said:


> Funny thing is that I measured both my ebike and 2016 Stumpy and they're the same chainstay measurement which is 17.5 " .


Stumpy is somewhat of a cruiser bike too. Less so than an ebike due to not being so front heavy. Cruiser bikes are just bikes made to be ridden 99% in the saddle, for fitness and leisurely adventure (mileage and elevation). They tend to be kind of dangerous compared to the more capable trail and enduro bikes that recently are coming out, featuring longer front centers that balance out the fore-aft balance to not be so front-heavy.

Anyone who wants to get the more complete MTB experience, will likely go with something like the Stumpy EVO or new enduro, but may sacrifice climbing ease due to the heavier/grippier tires they call for. I figure a motor could offset the weight weenie attitude that lingers, that has people still compromising on grip and robustness on tires, and choosing to spend over 50% more on carbon version of parts.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ninjichor said:


> Stumpy is somewhat of a cruiser bike too. Less so than an ebike due to not being so front heavy. Cruiser bikes are just bikes made to be ridden 99% in the saddle, for fitness and leisurely adventure (mileage and elevation). They tend to be kind of dangerous compared to the more capable trail and enduro bikes that recently are coming out, featuring longer front centers that balance out the fore-aft balance to not be so front-heavy.
> 
> Anyone who wants to get the more complete MTB experience, will likely go with something like the Stumpy EVO or new enduro, but may sacrifice climbing ease due to the heavier/grippier tires they call for. I figure a motor could offset the weight weenie attitude that lingers, that has people still compromising on grip and robustness on tires, and choosing to spend over 50% more on carbon version of parts.


Maybe ninji is calling it with some lenses.
A- most mountain bikes are not full suspension
B- most riders are not into enduro
We can personalize our bikes and the ** a la mode stuff ** is not better.
Wait 2 yrears they will tell you they sold you shitty bars that are w a y t o o wide, top tubes that are way too long and cranks that are way too long.
So wait do not buy all that ****.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

I posted his expert review on the stumpy site and can't wait to see their replies


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

ninjichor, you are way too consumed with the minutia of bike geometry. I think I recall reading one of your posts where you mentioned you are relatively new to mountain biking. Once you've been around for a while, you'll start to understand how insignificant a cm here or there really is when it comes down to performance. Even after riding for several years and feeling like you are King Kong, a Cat 1 rider will still smoke your a$$ on a technical downhill with a hardtail with a 100mm fork, super steep 69 degrees HTA, massively long 440mm chainstays, and puny little 700mm front center. 

Sure geometry matters, but not as much as you want it to.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

No doubt ^


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

OhioPT said:


> ninjichor, you are way too consumed with the minutia of bike geometry. I think I recall reading one of your posts where you mentioned you are relatively new to mountain biking. Once you've been around for a while, you'll start to understand how insignificant a cm here or there really is when it comes down to performance. Even after riding for several years and feeling like you are King Kong, a Cat 1 rider will still smoke your a$$ on a technical downhill with a hardtail with a 100mm fork, super steep 69 degrees HTA, massively long 440mm chainstays, and puny little 700mm front center.
> 
> Sure geometry matters, but not as much as you want it to.


Do you realize that your macho bullying is a big part of what's toxic about cycling? Maybe people don't wanna sheepishly conform to some cyclist traditions, and just want to experience riding trails, but are scared, wanting a gentle low-pressure entry. Maybe their idea of achievement is not improving PRs, but doing what got them interested in MTB in the first place, watching others seemingly having fun, rather pushing themselves to the limits of "willing-suffering" and then geeking out on ride stats.

Someone's gotta offer some technical advice to people who want to compare even the difference between size small and medium, or bike A vs bike B. I'm basically the next evolution of people who argue what's the ideal chainstay length. I confidently believe this weight bias thing is more important than all the emphasis on reach, ETT, and what not. Only my emphasis is risk/danger reduction, and making cycling more attractive to non-athletes, rather than stomping my foot demanding that bikes be more wheelie/manual-friendly and/or flickable/playful.

This forum is too full of enthusiasts getting caught up in Warrior creeds, chanting "don't buy upgrades, ride upgrades", or "racer guy can ride a ****-bike better than you on a superbike". Hypocritically, most enthusiasts are buying upgrades anyways, whereas I'm guiding riders to the less dangerous anti-quiver bikes.

I label bikes as cruiser bikes, because non-racers better identify themselves with such, wanting easy riding comfort. Only I try to suggest that kind of idea is the main reason why mtb feels dangerous, due to the geo. I try to convince them MTB doesn't feel as dangerous on a more trail-worthy bike, and that the "extreme/hardcore" label is superficial, due to the better geo making jumps, drops, and challenging descents seem less risky to ride. I'd recommend the $1500 Honzo and the $1000 Canfield Riot frame not because they're hardcore, but because they just have better geo and that geo doesn't cost an arm and a leg like carbon does, offering a bigger difference to ride handling and control.

Changing geo costs a lot. Helps to choose wisely from the start, avoiding costly common beginner mistakes. I worry about the ecological cost of flooding the market with **** bikes; do all these **** bikes end up neglected in peoples' garages, hardly ridden after falling into a state of disrepair, maybe passed off to someone who will send it to the landfill after they're done abusing it?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ninjichor said:


> Do you realize that your macho bullying is a big part of what's toxic about cycling? Maybe people don't wanna sheepishly conform to some cyclist traditions, and just want to experience riding trails, but are scared, wanting a gentle low-pressure entry. Maybe their idea of achievement is not improving PRs, but doing what got them interested in MTB in the first place, watching others seemingly having fun, rather pushing themselves to the limits of "willing-suffering" and then geeking out on ride stats.
> 
> Someone's gotta offer some technical advice to people who want to compare even the difference between size small and medium, or bike A vs bike B. I'm basically the next evolution of people who argue what's the ideal chainstay length. I confidently believe this weight bias thing is more important than all the emphasis on reach, ETT, and what not. Only my emphasis is risk/danger reduction, and making cycling more attractive to non-athletes, rather than stomping my foot demanding that bikes be more wheelie/manual-friendly and/or flickable/playful.
> 
> ...


My Haibike 2017 is i guess what you would call front heavy with a 460 chainstay?
Well it might be on paper.
I personalized it chopping the bar at 620, it allows a more upright position because i am not strong and i like popping up the front for obstacles. I just developped the habit of keeping my weight back so i guess i ride a balanced bike. Maybe you could teach people to adapt to their bikes? 
My next Ebike might have a shorter CS but it will definitely have the reliability that i love and get from my Yamaha.
No need for a Norco fun 2 ride for a few weeks.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Yea, that's what people have to do, learn to adapt to the bike, but it's still dangerous/risky. When you are considering your ability to ride something successfully, all that risk has to be accounted for.

How do you feel when you show up to a familiar trail system on a different bike, and the bike you're on makes you avoid stuff, which you normally wouldn't on another bike? To me, this simply means that there's reason to have more than 1 bike. I rather have 1 bike that is capable of doing it all, relatively safely and reliably, with minimal quirky compromises (e.g. forced to adapt by using unnatural technique).


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

Still own ALL of my acoustic bikes, Love my new carbon levo, but still doesnt handle like my Evil, Santa Cruz, YT, etc....


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## str8line (Apr 1, 2005)

richj8990 said:


> A normal bike is way more fun. It just can't climb as fast or go on relatively flat surfaces as fast. But it's a lot more fun, and safe, downhill than a heavier bike that's not really balanced. Even a mid-drive is going to have some front weight bias if the battery is on the downtube. How are you going to balance that out of the frame? Add weight to the back? Center of gravity is not just vertical, it's front/back too.
> 
> Fire roads and easy singletrack, e-bike is fine. Real downhill trails = non-ebike for sure.


LOL, whatever dude. What e-bikes have you ridden? My Kenevo rides just as balanced as my Enduro 29er. It feels more planted due to its weight. I've ridden pretty much every trail in the SLC area on the Kenevo and it eats up the gnarliest trails. Just yesterday I switched bikes with my buddies Santa Cruz Nomad and the speed difference on the gnarliest sections of the Little Cottonwood Canyon trail(one of the toughest trails around) is negligible.


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## str8line (Apr 1, 2005)

I have no problem switching between my bikes at all. And when I switch out with my buddies there is no problem either. Searching for tenths during a downhill race, sure, but otherwise switching between bikes is no big deal for an experienced rider.


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## str8line (Apr 1, 2005)

elee325 said:


> I have been contemplating on acquiring an e-bike, but I fear that I will end up ditching the other three high-end 29ers sitting in the garage. Can anybody shed some light on their experience based on acquiring an e-bike and how that changed their riding habits? :thumbsup:


I've changed my habits a ton. I ride a lot more often. Even on days when I'm tired I still ride. I ride when I only have an hour(trails by my house). I ride a bigger variety of trails since the gonzo climbs are in play even when you don't want a huge workout/sufferfest. I spin when I want to spin and push when I want to push, which is not always an option in the mountains on a analog bike. The uphills become way more fun since your speeds are higher. I'm covering 15 miles on quick evening rides. It's such a game-changer overall it's amazing.


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## howardv (Nov 11, 2016)

I ride my regular MTB 80% of the time and my e-MTB 20% of the time. I love and enjoy both of them. I ride the regular bike more because it allows me to measure my self and my improvements. I use Strava and can see myself getting faster over the years. It feels great seeing you can do a certain uphill climb 15 minutes faster than a year ago. Things like this are difficult to measure with an e-bike. 

I mountain bike two times a week. I ride to the trails from home. So sometimes I get bored of the same stuff. This is where the e-mtb shines! I can go much further in the same time frame and discover new places. I can do longer loops. Keeps things fresh!

But for me, the e-mtb didn't replace my regular MTB. They actually compliment each other.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I have a Levo that I ride from time to time, mostly on Sunday morning if I'm a little hung over or just feeling lazy. It's good for what it is, but it doesn't replace my regular MTBs. The rest of the time, I'm on my Pivot Mach 429 or my Stumpjumper.


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