# Spawn Savage vs Trek Superfly 20



## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

So i'm having a tough time working out what to do for my 5.5 year old boy.

He's now on a crappy toys r us 14" bike with a backpedal brake (ugh), horrible caliper brakes that are hard to use and it weighs a ton.

Then, today, I discovered the Spawn Banshee which looked to me like a perfect 'next' bike, but then I started reading more and more that he would actually be nearly growing out of that already - seems I was late to the game with 'decent' bikes.

Now I am seeing that 6 year olds should be going on to 20" bikes, which doesn't seem realistic to me yet, but I have not done a test sit with him yet so maybe it won't be as bad as I think - His current Sh*tBike has the seat at 21.5" from the ground right now, and I measured his inside leg at 18.5" just now (no shoes).

So, I think I narrowed it down to a few bikes, but unfortunately the Isla is not so easy for me to get (I am in Canada). This leaves me with the Spawn Savage, but then I read the following article which puts the Trek up there with the Isla...

Best kids' bikes: 20in girls' and boys' bikes - BikeRadar

It's also a WHOLE LOT cheaper than the Savage as well as being easier to source here in Ontario.

From what I can see, they are both similarly specced, and the frae geometry looks at least similar...

Trek:
Superfly 20 - Kids' collection - Trek Bicycle

Spawn:
Spawn Cycles Savage 1.0 | Spawn Cycles - Born to Ride

With a price difference of over $250CAD, is there any big advantage of the Spawn over the Trek? I know the Spawn Savage 1.0 now comes with disc brakes, but V brakes are plenty good enough IMO.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Having just moved my 5 1/2 year old from a Banshee to a Superfly 20, I can say I am glad I went with the Superfly. I got it for like $360 plus tax. Compare that to the full MSRP Savage plus shipping from Canada. 

As much as the Savage is aesthetically pleasing to me, I just can't cough up that kinda coin. Even if my son was some phenom future pro. The Trek is lighter by at least a pound, the v brakes are plenty fine. 

We did switch the stem to a 40mm stem ($20 Kona takeoff at my LBS) and are in the process of getting shorter cranks (the stock Trek 150mm cranks are WAY too big); but aside from that we are very happy. 

The shifter and derailleur on the Spawn are nicer, but who cares, the Trek shifts fine and if I want to going it out I can get some old XTR 9 speed stuff off ebay. There are other little details, like the bottom bracket is nicer on the Spawn, perhaps the wheels, disc brakes, but again, no weight penalty for the Trek for having some cheaper items, and they all work fine. 

However, do consider the Cleary Bikes Owl, and IslaBike Beinn 20.

We settled on the Trek for tire clearance compared to the IslaBike, and I REALLY like the Cleary bikes (the owner is very nice too) but my son was really wanting gears. 

And yes, definitely get a 20" if your son is average to tall. Or get the IslaBike Beinn 20 Small.

Edit: forgot you are in Canada. In USD the Trek was $420 MSRP and I got it for US $360.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. That's one tick for Superfly in my mind. 

I just read about the Cleary a few hours ago, but again it's in the US. Anything crossing the border to Canada (Cleary & Isla) would just add to my headaches and costs. He can actually sit on the Trek before buying too which is not an option for us for any of the others.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Another big tick for the trek superfly 20 here. My son has had his nearly a year now, he got it at 4 1/2 yrs old. It seams smaller that some brands of 20". I know he still couldn't stand over a hotrock. Santa knew to put a 35mm stem on it and it has dialled cranks on it which have pedal positions at 120mm and 140mm. He uses the 120mm still. Great bike. He loves it, very robust and good 'bang for buck' imho. He is only just getting strong enough to change the gears himself though - could change up (harder gear) from day one but down requires more grip strength.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

So I managed to get him to a bike shop today to try out the 20" bikes. It's a Trek dealer, but they don't have the Superfly 20. We put him on an MT60 though (Which I believe is slightly bigger anyway) and it looks like a great fit except for the fact that he couldn't touch the ground easily lol.

I think it's pretty likely that I will get him the Superfly 20 for his birthday in March. I have only read good things about this bike so far.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I'll post up pics when I get the 120mm cranks and chain guide on next week. Anyone who buys a Superfly 20 for a 5-6 y.o. NEEDS to swap the crank straight away. Not expensive, fortunately.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My son rides a mt60 just went through it to shave lbs. Got it for him 2 yrs ago. Too bad he wasn't a yr and half younger id have been all over a superfly 20. But superfly 20 crankset and tires (xr1 20") used to lighten the bike ALOT. I couldn't see spending more on a kids bike unless it had good, light, air fork.

As for touching the ground should be good by getting seat as low as possible, I started with it resting on the seat tube. Had to cut a little off the post. Especially now, come march could be less of an issue, kids grow fast
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about a 20" for him. We just went back to the indoor bike park yesterday (Joyride 150 in Markham neat Toronto - he looves it there). He usually blasts around like a pro on his 12" balance bike (That I made from a 12" Toys-R-Us special), but this time I took his pedal bike too which is a 14" Toys-R-Us bike (I did not do due research first) and he hated it and fell off when he was trying to do the teeter totter there and that was it.

Now, I since realised that pedalling on narrow raised stuff is a complete different ball game to using a balance bike with your feet on the ground - you need to learn low speed control on a pedal bike to do that stuff and that bike just wobbles all over the place.

This makes me anxious about getting a 'bigger' bike, but I also understand that the geometry should make it more stable too - I think. I'm just scared of wasting $400 on something he won't want to use (in lieu of his balance bike).

We need to get out pedaling more, I think. He never wants to though as the bike is too 'tricky' so he always wants to use the balance bike...

Ugh, hate this lol.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Horses for courses.

For BMX/park type riding, you won't want to consider a 20" for a number of years, unless your kid is freakishly tall.

For riding around the neighborhood and on trails, more MTB style (what my kid calls 'old man riding'), the bigger wheels aren't so much of a issue. Same goes for BMX racing.

At about 6 y/o, my kid raced BMX on 20s, road trails on 24s, and used 16s for park/DJ. At 10, he's on a 26" for MTB and 18" for park/DJ. 

Picking the right wheel size isn't as simple as just going by age/size; it's mainly about riding style. Let him try out a couple 16" BMX park bikes with the seat slammed and see what he thinks (make sure he knows how to ride standing up too - you can't handle a bike sitting down).


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

I can see where this is going - I'm going to need 2 primary bikes for him lol. I wonder if I will get management approval for this.

Now do I go Spawn Banshee, 16" BMX or 18" BMX for park/dj stuff... Hrrrm. I have a 16" 'Huffy' - That might be better than his 14" bike for the time being. I always considered it too big for him until now.

I think I will still get the Superfly in March so we can hit trails and go on nice bike rides next year.

I'll have to get him started on standing up cycling - it's just I think that bike is just way too small and making real riding too challenging for him.

In other news, every time I go to that bike park my rear wheel bearing ends up with loads more play. Time for a new rear hub/wheel for me - or a DJ bike lol.

I see people are OK with proud parent pics in here so here is one of him on the sport skinnies yesterday on the balance bike (Used to be a Dora The Explorer bike lol). Off-topic, sorry 








Oh and his first jump, why not


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Wow, that indoor bike park looks fantastic. 

In terms of switching from balance bike to pedal bike for technical riding expect it to take some time. Once he is confidently riding standing up he will be find obstacle riding easier. Watch the "good" riders, obstacles, jumps and technical sections are done standing for the most part.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I would do 16 over 18" for a while, if that helps any.


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## elbenson (Jan 21, 2013)

For BMX bikes for the little guy you might want to check out these bikes. They come in 16 and 18 so you can pick the best size. There are other good little bmx bikes, but this should get you started.

Primer « Sunday Bikes « BMX Bikes and Parts

Or another recommended 18" bike would be from Fit: FIT 18 - Fitbikeco.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah my son on a 20 inch at 5 years old is similar to me on a 29er. That's why we are keeping our Banshee, for pump tracks and whatnot.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

I think i'll have to sit him on a 16" BMX to see how that goes - for the bike park.


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## ghostchili (Aug 26, 2012)

XJaredX said:


> I'll post up pics when I get the 120mm cranks and chain guide on next week. Anyone who buys a Superfly 20 for a 5-6 y.o. NEEDS to swap the crank straight away. Not expensive, fortunately.


Where did you get the 120mm cranks? I just got my son a superfly 20 and need the 120's.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

My LBS swapped the stock cranks for Trek Dialled cranks which have two sets of holes to put the pedals in - one at 120mm and the other at 140mm. Easy option. The other option I know some people on here have used is Sinz 120mm cranks from JR Bikes. I don't know if they bolt straight on or not though.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

ghostchili said:


> Where did you get the 120mm cranks? I just got my son a superfly 20 and need the 120's.


https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2961

But you also need a chain guide, chain ring, I changed the freewheel to MegaRange to keep the granny gear ratio since I had to go to a bigger chain ring, and I'd recommend a better bottom bracket (like $12?) 

Check out post #21 here for what I did. 

Or as Silvascape said, you can just have your Trek LBS swap the crank for the one with the two pedal positions. Probably far cheaper, definitely easier.


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## ghostchili (Aug 26, 2012)

XJaredX said:


> https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2961
> 
> But you also need a chain guide, chain ring, I changed the freewheel to MegaRange to keep the granny gear ratio since I had to go to a bigger chain ring, and I'd recommend a better bottom bracket (like $12?)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'm getting the same crankset the 2015 MT60 has with the 120mm and 140mm spots. The bike I got my son is actually an Australian model so it's purple and has 140mm cranks stock. He had a coice between the red and purple and he chose the latter which is fine being kinda unisex. My daughter will use it next


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Hi Ghostchili. Thats what my sons bike has on it - the same ones as on the MT60. They work really well. I thought he might have trouble with the ends of the cranks hitting things as they stick out a bit past the pedals but it has not been an issue. I am pretty sure he will outgrow the bike before he grows into the 140mm pedal holes but as the bike shop just swapped the cranks over before I picked the bike up its certainly the easy option (and inexpensive - no cost to me).


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## ghostchili (Aug 26, 2012)

silvascape said:


> Hi Ghostchili. Thats what my sons bike has on it - the same ones as on the MT60. They work really well. I thought he might have trouble with the ends of the cranks hitting things as they stick out a bit past the pedals but it has not been an issue. I am pretty sure he will outgrow the bike before he grows into the 140mm pedal holes but as the bike shop just swapped the cranks over before I picked the bike up its certainly the easy option (and inexpensive - no cost to me).


On that note maybe I should just cut the 140mm off since my daughter will use it before he moves to the 140.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

Well it's that time of year again. Once again I find myself looking at the Superfly 20.

He is pedalling fine on the crappy 14" bike now, but that thing is super unstable at speed, he has had bad wobbles a few times and only lucked out of having a 'high speed' wipeout. Also, the brakes are utter junk. The front brake grabs and locks, the back brake barely does anything with all his might, so now he is scared of hills.

We went for a 7.5Km ride on Sunday and he did great, but that bike is a piece of work. I think it's time to upgrade.

We only go to that bike park maybe a handful of times a year and don't go to the skate parks all that much, I think I would be better off getting him used to 'bike rides' and trail riding. After that 7.5K ride, I think he would be good for 10K if it was not so windy & hilly.

I think I want to go get the Trek this weekend.


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## apxfndr (Sep 21, 2013)

Hope it's in stock near you. I went to get one last week and Trek is claiming they are out until June 1. Call LBS ahead.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

I actually e-mailed them this morning and they have it in stock. They also mentioned that the price is going up soon.

They also mentioned a 2 year 1/2 back scheme, but I assume it means NextBike would need to be a Trek - at least I know it's possible for this bike to only cost ~$200 in the long run.


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## aldsw (Mar 31, 2015)

The Islabike Beinn 20 is also on back order


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

Whoa - I saw plenty of people talking about their LBS swapping out the crank on the Superfly 20 for the one on the MT60. The Trek store just got back to me - they just said "We cannot do that swap, maybe try another LBS".

That came across very 'we don't need/want your business' to me :/

Feeling a bit bothered about this


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

Well I took the plunge and could not be happier. When I got it, the shock of actually laying down the $500CAD got to me and I started feeling buyers remorse - especially as the 'test ride', if you can call it that, was not astounding. He managed to ride it a little, but it was busy Toronto streets so he was too nervous.

To top it off, our Pontiac Vibe decided to show me its seized caliper on the way home (The vibrations from overheating brakes almost shook my arms off, and the brake fluid was boiling in the caliper). So I spent another $500 on parts for a full front brake job.

I was feeling pretty down having spent so much money that day and was worried he would be too nervous for the new bike.

Got up on Sunday, changed the car brakes and then took him for his bike ride and, well...














He LOVES it. He took straight to it, wobbly maybe for about 5-10 secs. Then he was fine and the bike stayed stable even at 'high' speed. Brakes he is actually able to use and come to a stop, he can stand up on it (Working on standing and pedalling) and, well, this is a kid that is usually scared to try a new bike and is always super apprehensive. But he was STOKED.

This bike has transformed him. Worth the money. Now it's time to find some gentle trails 

Happy Kid & Happy Dad


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

Tom17 said:


> He LOVES it.


Awesome. Can you remind us what his current height and inseam measurements are?

I just took the drive this weekend to an easy chunk of single track. There was short uphill section covered with small branches and my older son rode his Superfly right over them like it was nothing.

He's 49" with a 20.5" inseam, as of March.


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## Tom17 (Oct 17, 2014)

I will measure 

But I did have to remove the seat-post mounted reflector and slam the seat right down for him to be comfortably in contact with the ground. I just didn't want him to be nervous.


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