# Long Frame vs. Short



## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

So I know I’m pretty well asking a noob question, but I am a noob to DJ/ Urban bikes so I suppose it fits…….
I have been finding myself riding urban a lot lately, and have really been enjoying it, however, for lack of a better bike (The Trek Top Fuel 9.8 carbon race bike doesn’t work out too well) I have been riding one of my old bikes, a Trek 3900. I have it pretty tricked out (breaks, singled in the front, shifting, rear wheel, etc.) but that 18” frame is KILLING me lol……
I’m thinking I am going to buy a Haro Thread 8, and I don’t know if I should get a 13” long or a 13” short frame. I really think it’s going to be the long one, but who better to ask than the urban guys. I’m 6’0”, 30” inseam, and I will be doing a little bit of bike park and dirt jumping, but probably about 90% urban riding. What do you guys thing? Long? And any thoughts on the Thread 8?


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

Thread 8 is a good bike. Its similar to my STP.

I'd go Long for sure. BTW, you have some little stumpy legs! haha Im 5'10" and have a 30" inseam, and I have little stumpy legs haha/

Either way, go LONG, it'll be much more comfortable for your large torso.

however, if your looking for an Urban bike, i'd consider something Single Speed with horizontel dropouts, and probably a Chromoly frame. That Thread-8 will work for Urban (at least much better than your 3900), but if you are buying a new bike, there are many more bikes that would serve this function better. The thread 8 was designed as a 4X/Dual Slalom/Dirt Jump bike.

I'd look into Complete bikes from Black Market, and maybe Eastern.

The models Id reccomend for an entry level urban bike are:

*Black Market .357 or Riot *if you can afford (Killer bikes, from the guys who do S&M, I wanna get one of these some day)
*Eastern Night Train* (on sale at Jenson cheap)
*Specialized P.1 Chromo* (new at LBS or Ebay/craigslist or Mtbr/ridemonkey/pinkbike classifieds)
*Haro Steel Reserve 1.3* (should be able to get one of these at a good price now, the distributors have the 09's on sale)

There are many others, but these will definately suffice as to get you properly started and last you longer than you will ever need! :thumbsup:

have fun man!


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks! That was very helpful…..
And correction, I have a 32” inseam, I assume long would definitely still be the way to go…….
And ok, the chromo may not be a bad idea, It needs to be able to take some serious abuse, and I think that I do want to go against the crowd and go with gears, just because I’m gonna be riding around campus on it a lot and well…… sounds bad, but I like to ride wheelies lol……
What do you think about the Steel Reserve 8?


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

haha yea, that makes more sense. But you would still want a Long.

Thats a good bike, but again, your losing the option of Horizontel dropouts. But thats a step better in the right direction from the Thread8. 

I bought my bike geared, and promptly made it a single speed. as you stated, it'll be taking some abuse, which doesnt mix with shifter/derailluer/cassette/cables very well. haha 

I ride my bike around my college campus as well, and the 2 bikes I ride are both single speed (20"BMX and STP1). And I've never wanted gears. 

The simplicity of no gears is fantastic. Trust me, if you run a gear ratio close to 2:1, you wont have any issues getting anywhere, and the drivetrain feels much more responsive and nothing clinks/******/sloshes around when you do a 3ft drop onto flat concrete or crash down a set of stairs. 

trust me, you want Single speed. As you've said, you've already got 2 other bikes with gears


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

I don't know man, I love my gears lol.......
I'll take the SS into consideration though.


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

haha Well you should go ride your 3900 around some urban, and see how many times you actually shift. 

And remember, this isnt XC racing, who cares about cadence and pedaling efficiency. Its ok to stand up and mash down every now and then  I raced downhill, raced dual slalom, dirt jump, and ride park/urban on a single speed. And I wouldnt have it any other way!  

Im a man of simplicity and weight savings though...hell even my XC bike is a 1x9.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

well if you are gonna ride around campus and do wheelies you will definitely need gears.

. . .

.. . 
wait WHAT ?!!! listen to Zenki !

watch these videos, then come back and tell us you need gears !!

Danny Macaskill (trials to "Funeral" song)





Mutiny Bmx Web Video 2008





seriously, some mtb street riders do run gears while riding street, like Aaron Chase, but in general they are a lot more maintenance work to deal with. gears on low-end bikes basically keep campus bike shops in business all over this nation.


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

All right, CMC, I see your point but no need to be a dick about it I know I don't know much on urban bikes, but if you come ask something about XC racing stuff I'll do my best to help out and be polite about it........
Anyway, I know how to work on gears perfectly fine and I know they can cause more trouble but I think I can justify those issues. I shift when riding urban specifically for two different reasons: To ride wheelies, mainly across skinny stuff, I think it's fun and looks pretty sweet at that, and when I need to get some serious speed to clear a jump, I don't know if the little bit of trouble gears will cause will justify not being able to do those two things (at least as well)


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

Go with gears then sir. You'll be fine.

Any reason your sticking with Haro stuff? Are you a Haro dealer? 

Cause Specialized might have something up your ally as well.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

RamRider said:


> All right, CMC, I see your point but no need to be a dick about it I know I don't know much on urban bikes, but if you come ask something about XC racing stuff I'll do my best to help out and be polite about it........
> Anyway, I know how to work on gears perfectly fine and I know they can cause more trouble but I think I can justify those issues. I shift when riding urban specifically for two different reasons: To ride wheelies, mainly across skinny stuff, I think it's fun and looks pretty sweet at that, and when I need to get some serious speed to clear a jump, I don't know if the little bit of trouble gears will cause will justify not being able to do those two things (at least as well)


hah hah, man i'm just messin with you a little bit. not being a dick just trying to pass on knowledge to a newb..... my main point is almost every person i've known who has come from xc background and got into dirt jumpers eventually ends up deciding to lose the gears and they're happy about it. i don't know any who bought a singlespeed and are wishing they had gears instead. it's up to yo tho. i grew up riding bmx so i'm biased in favor of singlespeed.

bmx'ers and mtbmx'ers by the way stand up and "wheelie" just by pulling back and not pedaling. it's called a "manual." and you get plenty of speed to clear jumps with singlespeed. just look at bmx racing: 





did you watch the videos i posted yet ?


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## deskinsd87 (Oct 8, 2008)

I bought an Stp1 with gears last year thinking it would be great to still be able to ride the XC trails with it. Within the first week I had it I had broken 2 Derailuer hangers off. 1 broke over a 3 ft table top and the other one broke when I hopped up a curb. The bike shop put a single speed kit on it for free after I broke the 3rd hanger a week later. To be honest I can ride a good slow speed wheelie as good on a single speed as I can on bike with gears it just takes some getting used to.

at 6ft I would say you are right on the line for switching between long and short frames. I ride a Large Stp1. Just remember skateparks were built around Bmx bikes and skateboards and there is a huge jump in wheel base between a 26in bike and a bmx bike. So I would try and keep the bike as short as you feel comfortable riding.


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Go ahead and waste your time and money running gears on an urban assault setup..... Just don't say we didn't warn you!


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Ok, guys, I guess I'm going to give in and go with a SS, I'm thinking the Haro Steel Reserve 1.3. It looks pretty solid, but I'm sure someone on here will find some reason or another why I would be stupid to get it.......
Anyway, only problem is I'm going to have to wait a while to get it, I'm hoping to have it by Christmas though. Damn, I wish I had more money...............


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

haha we all wish we had more money.

For the price, the Steel Reserve is a great bike man. Good quality stuff, and you get a 20mm axle fork etc! Good bike and good choice man! You'll love it!


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## Minx20 (Oct 4, 2009)

I was going to get the Eastern NT at Jensen since it was $1000 and had the hydro brakes, RS Fork, but since I got a deal on a '10 Steel 1.3 for $675 I could not pass the Haro up.


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Probably a stupid question, but the front hub is disc break ready on the 1.3 correct?


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## Minx20 (Oct 4, 2009)

RamRider said:


> Probably a stupid question, but the front hub is disc brake ready on the 1.3 correct?


Yes, and in another thread listed "haro steel reserve" one guy changed up the brake set and added a front disc set up.


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Now folks,
I got myself a Steel Reserve 1.3, and to whoever "told me so," well you told me so. I could not be happier with the bike thus far. I really agree that the single speed was the way to go, no gears to worry about is a good feeling, and with a little practice handling the SS should be quite easy. I vow to learn how to manual (and get some other stuff down) before spring swings around, because here in Mid-Missouri the snow just hit and my local trail takes quite a while to dry out from snow, should give me plenty of time to play around on the new jumping rig. Also, I recently found out there is a dirt jump track about 30 miles away from me so I will be hitting that up soon (getting some practice for when I move back to Colorado this spring) I found that I really enjoy dirt jumping, even though the only time I have done it in Missouri I was on my old Trek 3900 (18" frame, probably not the best jumper) The Steel Reserve should be quite an improvement. I appreciate all the help and recommendations you guys have given me, I am very happy with my bike. I am new to the DJ/ Urban game and I'm thinking I am going to have a lot of fun with it. The bike is completely stock for now except the breaks, I put Avid Juicy 3.5's on it, front and rear. 

Anyway, I have two other, minuscule questions for you guys.
1) What kind of pressure should I run in my tires for urban? (They are Kenda K-Rad's, 2.3) For dirt jumping?
2) What kind of pressure should I run in the shock for urban? (It is a Marzocchi Dirt Jump 2) For dirt jumping? I weigh 165 pounds right now. (I'm always fat in the winter, I hope to be back down to 150 or so come race season but I know you guys don't care) just what kind of pressure should I be running now?

Thanks,
Josh


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

Whoa....Mid-Missouri?

Dude, why didnt you tell us earlier? haha I live in Columbia, where are you at?

I'd like to come check out your new rig!

-Kyle

Congrats on the purchase BTW, and im glad you got the single-speed!


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

50 to 60 pounds in the K-rads.
I'd pump the fork up as high as it's safe. But I like my suspension stiff as @&%#.


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Ok, and yeah, thanks.
I'm in Jeff City.
PM me your number Zenki, I'll hit you up next time I'm up to Columbia, I'm up there quite often.


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## Big Pete (Feb 1, 2009)

So Ram your 6' tall did you get the long or the short frame????

Did you ride both before your purchase? How did you make your decesion?


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

PM'd number, and info on local spots 

Were gonna try to ride monday if the weather is appealing, and our trails/jumps are dry! I wouldnt mind seeing your new bike out there also.

Just out of curiosity, how old are ya? And are you in college?

And yea, 55-60lbs are what i run my very similar tires at for Urban and DJ. As far as fork air pressure, IDK what that fork will handle. But I'd run it a few psi shy of the max. You want a very stiff fork for urban and DJ.

Be careful though, I all but completely gave up riding XC once I started getting proficient at Dirt Jumping...hahahaha  Seriously.


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## kremecheze (Nov 21, 2009)

i'm 6'3 and i'm pickin up a eastern thunderbird 09,but it only comes in one size fits all,do you think i will feel ok on this bike?


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## meanrider (Dec 21, 2009)

*Help - Haro Steel Reserve 1.3*

Haro Steel Reserve 1.3
I am 5' 1" so should i go w/ the short or long frame
PLEASE reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

I would say short for sure

And a question for the rest of you:
I cannot get my chain tight enough by just pulling the wheel back while the axle is lose, is there any trick to getting the chain more tensioned?


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

Nevermind, I answered my own question.


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

A good chain tension device, like what BMX bike use will be good for keeping it tensioned.


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## meanrider (Dec 21, 2009)

*thanks*



RamRider said:


> I would say short for sure
> 
> THank you a bunch RamRider


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

*Pictures...... Finally.*

So I have ridden it a lot, and even crashed a few times (hell it has to happen sometime)
Anyway, their not the best but here are a few pics.........


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

*Old 3900.......*

Well, I know it is kind of irrelevant to this thread but I talked about that old 3900 a little but earlier and I took some pictures of it also so let me know what you guys think.
It would actually probably make a pretty decent DJ/Urban rig if I put a new handlebar/ stem setup on it and it was a 13" frame. Most everything has been replaced on the bike, including the rear rim, which I spoked myself (I put silver spokes on one side and black on the other, thought it looked pretty hip)


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