# vandalism proof trails signs



## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Is there such a thing? In my area, the trails are generally multi-use and that includes idiots. Idiots who feel it's fun to remove/damage/vandalize any prior trail signage attempts. Prior attempts using signposts have been ripped out. We do utilize numbered intersection points and colored blazes painted on trees - but all our trails have names and would be optimal to mark them as such. (We don't really want to screw things into trees, though)

Any ideas out there? If not vandalism proof, at least vandalism challenged?


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

Steel plates with trail info cut out using a programmable plasma cutter, water cutter, etc. Weld the plate to a nice solid steel post. Paint it all or plate it all so that is doesn't rust. Weld the bottom of the post to a few pieces of rebar, no 6, 7, or 8 bars are pretty common and would work. Dig a nice solid post foundation hole, say three feet deep and one and a half to two feet in diameter. Place your sign in the whole and fill with concrete. That is about as vandalism proof as I can imagine a trail sign getting. Bullets will still ruin it.

You could try some variation of that with info stamped into wet concrete on the ground, but people may miss it. Have you tried little surveillance signs as a deterrent? That's probably the most effortless thing I'd try. No actual surveillance system required.


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

That's a tuff one, there's always going to be some jackass trying to ruin it.:madman: Router or chisel the trail names in large rocks least they won't get stolen


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I have had good luck with these, a Fossil Ind. sign panel (9"x12"x1/2") on a 3" steel post set 24" deep in concrete. The posts are pretty bombproof, I have had one panel pried off the sign post, a couple surface scratched, but that's about it. The panels last about 10 years here in the SW and it's easy to bolt on new ones.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Rig up some land mines around the signs, that'll take care of your vandalism. 

Seriously though, the best you can do is "pretty good" because some determined enough miscreant will always find a way to screw something up. There are some good suggestions here, but also think about this: You can either use an expensive solution that's very difficult, or a cheap solution that's easy to mess up. If you use the cheap solution, you can replace it a dozen times for less than some of the expensive solutions. Odds are, eventually they'll either stop, or get caught. I know it doesn't bother me nearly as bad to see a little plastic $5 per 50 plastic hash ripped down as it does something more expensive.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

You mention "prior attempts", which I interpret to mean numerous. Has there been any access issues in the area? Random acts of vandalism are one thing. Continuous acts may be the result of an unresolved issue.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Certainly food for thought during our next meeting.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^It is also possible to make signs from laser engraved stainless steel plate. I have been considering doing this. The thing about cheap signs is that they have to be replaced a lot, which involves a lot of time over the years. I've had to replace 1 out of ~24 Fossil inc. signs due to vandalism in 12 years. Signs run $150 each, replaced every 10 years or more, depending on the direction it faces, here in NW New Mexico. That's about $15 a year per sign with little or no time required, and the posts will last indefinitely. There will be some time or expense in creating the sign image files also.

0.125" Stainless Steel Custom Cut Metal Sign - 10"x12"5"x24"


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

What about 10 ft high on a tree? Out of reach. We use aluminum nails to prevent any later chainsaw issues. Assuming you have trees.


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## Wildfire (Feb 4, 2004)

I've heard of people having good luck reducing sign vandalism by putting little american flag stickers on the signs. Have not tried this personally.


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

I like Coldfriction's idea of cutting out trail name in steel beam then setting it in concrete. The Fossil signs are expensive and not resistant to scratchiti, which is where they scratch grafiti into the sign with a sharp tool such as a knife.

We used the carsonite fiberglass posts with stickers on them in NYC. They were supposed to be the most vandal resistant but they never met NYC vandals before this. Installed 50 sign posts and 30 of them were stolen in the first year. You can drive a truck over a carsonite post but the miscreants found they could twist them around until they broke off. I replaced the signs immediately because they weren't going to win. I figured they would get tired or move on.

The next year 20 signs were stolen. One day I was cruising the aisles of Home Depot and saw a big can of "pest barrier" and I thought, that's what I need a pest barrier! It was goopy stuff that you smear on a tree to keep caterpillars from climbing up. I bought a 5# tub and smeared it onto the back of the posts and signs that were getting vandalized so when they grab it they get sticky goopy stuff on their hands that does not come off easily.

I guess they got real mad when they got the goop on their hands cause they burned the first few sign posts but now I am down to replacing only 3 or 4 sign posts per year and only because the goop had worn away. Need to refresh the goop every few years.

The colored blazes on the trees never got vandalized to date. We are not allowed to nail anything to trees.


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

Also, if your going to use posts, you need to have cross holes bored in the bottom of the post and slam at least 2 pieces of rebar thru each side below grade it to hold the post down to the ground and/or use concrete too. Assume that drunken teenagers will take it all out on your signs so make them bomb proof.


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

I liked the Fossil idea most in this thread as they could have a more detailed info such as maps and decorative patterns. I believe I would find them to be some of the coolest signs if I saw them on the trails. I never notice much in the way of trail sign vandalism around where I live; you guys make it sound like we live in a post-apocalyptic crazy world. I'm surprised someone isn't littering the trails with broken beer bottles everywhere just to be jerks if they are going through such efforts to destroy trail signs.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Coldfriction said:


> I never notice much in the way of trail sign vandalism around where I live; you guys make it sound like we live in a post-apocalyptic crazy world. I'm surprised someone isn't littering the trails with broken beer bottles everywhere just to be jerks if they are going through such efforts to destroy trail signs.


To support sick4surf's assessments, he is talking about NYC and places not too far from NYC. In my original post/query, I am also referring to one of the "not too far from NYC" places - and though vandalism can happen anywhere really, it's a defacto standard around here.

I do like the goop idea however!

We currently do colored blazes, but signage with trail names would be a great aesthetic. Plus, we run out of colors quickly.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

The flexible fiberglass signs I saw in use in Utah and Colorado seem to fair well:









A vandal will burn a sign if it's flammable, bend a sign if it's metal, break a sign if it's fragile, graffiti/tag/shoot a sign if it has a large surface, or uproot or break a sign if it's easy to grab and pull on or drive over.

The flexible fiberglass signs seem resistant to those kinds of attack, provided they are well anchored. Vandals can still tag or scratch them up, but you can put new decals over the vandalism.

On the con side, the signs I've seen were not very tall. If the signs need to be visible above heavy snow cover, that might not work so well.


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## Coldfriction (Oct 31, 2009)

My biggest complaint about trail signs in Utah and the surrounding states is that a large portion of the trails usually are just numbered, whereas everyone who bikes the area uses common names for the trails. With all the trails in some areas, it's easy to forget which numbers you meant to follow. Some areas, such as the Moab example above, are better than others. I buy the local riding books and I bought a bike mountable gps unit/bike computer to make sense of things. I've never really gotten lost in that I couldn't find my way out, but I've definitely been places I didn't intend to go due to confusing signs. 

The worst damage to signs around here seems to be if there is a hunter or shooter that's looking for a target to practice on. I can't imagine anything being bullet proof, and the only mitigation would be to make them very hard to see at a distance. A sign that blends into the surrounding area is also less of an eyesore and detracts less from the outdoor experience compared to one that stands out. However, signs are meant to be seen, so I suppose there's a tradeoff there.


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## TORQUE-29er (Nov 26, 2008)

bad andy said:


> To support sick4surf's assessments, he is talking about NYC and places not too far from NYC. In my original post/query, I am also referring to one of the "not too far from NYC" places - and though vandalism can happen anywhere really, it's a defacto standard around here.
> 
> I do like the goop idea however!
> 
> We currently do colored blazes, but signage with trail names would be a great aesthetic. Plus, we run out of colors quickly.


I like the goop idea too, add some poison ivy resin for some kick.
We can spread it on some rocks too that keep getting removed from dumbing downers:madman::madmax:.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

The most bombproof signs I have seen have been heavy bronze or stainless steel plaques set into a concrete/asphalt/brick/cobblestone trail surface. The angle mounted signs don't seem to get shot up near as much around here.


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