# The absolute best and safest way to transport a Baby



## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

On a Bicycle that is...

Well we have a new baby and is getting that time when we can take her on bike rides so we are looking for the best way to carry her on the bike, so far we are partial to the "Stem" mounted chairs (forward mounted) because they provide great "Contact" with the baby plus the bars will protect her in case of a fall, but I'm sure they also have shortcomings (endo's, stoppies, holes on the road, etc)

In any case we need help figuring out what is best, Money is no object at this point and No we don't want a big dummy just to carry a 15pound baby.

Ps: Trailers maybe safe but they have issues for the baby (Psychological) so we prefer to stay away from them for now.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

How about a cargo bike- 2 wheels for speed or 3 wheels for stability


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

You have a new baby and it has Psychological problems being in a trailer?


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

We're car-free. I did a lot of research for transporting our now 10-month old daughter. We're getting a Big Dummy.

The stem-area seats look comfy, but the seat back doesn't extend past the child's shoulders, so they are susceptible to neck injuries. I've scraped and bent enough brake levers to know that area can be vulnerable in a crash.

Trailers shouldn't be used for carrying children where cars are present. I'm not going to ride around with my child's head at bumper height. For bike-paths they seem safest since the child is so close to the ground.

A standard-wheelbase bike with a child seat on the back isn't stable enough.

Bakfiets seems like the safest, IF the roads are relatively flat and predictable. For our country roads with gravel, snow, and ice I was worried about the handling of a bakfiet. We're not planning to ride in bad weather, but 6 months of the year if we want to get out it means dealing with at least a little bit of slick conditions. Sizing was also an issue, since I'm 6'4". None of the bakfiets that I've seen are available in anything but "one size fits most". I was worried about being in a good position for climbing hills.

15 pounds seems a little small in regards to neck strength. Be careful and be sure the seat provides enough support.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

asphalt_jesus said:


> The last thing you need to worry about with the cargo bikes is handling. They go straight and turn okay. But, mostly go straight no matter what.
> 
> As long as you are on two wheels instead of three, slick conditions will always be an issue. I could see things going badly for three wheels too!
> 
> ...


Where are you located and what is the local terrain and climate?

Trikes aren't an option for us, our roads are too narrow.

I regularly pull 100 pounds on a BOB.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

Vermont29er said:


> .. I was worried about the handling of a bakfiet. We're not planning to ride in bad weather, but 6 months of the year if we want to get out it means dealing with at least a little bit of slick conditions.


It sounds like you don't have much experience with cargo setups. The last thing you need to worry about with the cargo bikes is handling. They go straight and turn okay. But, mostly go straight no matter what.

As long as you are on two wheels instead of three, slick conditions will always be an issue. I could see things going badly for three wheels too!

OP has conflicting goals. Don't try to satisfy all of them. When they are loaded, pretty much the last thing to worry about is proper leg extension. You worry about planting your feet. If you have hills, think twice about braking too.

I don't know what the obsession is with acquiring a Dutch-like version of a Worksman. Front Load Heavy Duty Tricycles from Worksman Cycles Widely available in the U.S. and will last several lifetimes.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

Vermont29er said:


> Where are you located and what is the local terrain and climate?
> 
> Trikes aren't an option for us, our roads are too narrow.
> 
> I regularly pull 100 pounds on a BOB.


Isn't a BOB a trailer? That's different still.

I'm in Southern California. Sold/maintained a bunch of worksmans years ago. I used one then. I used it in hills. The customers bikes were industrial use. Board flat for them.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

one of these with baby in the front.
https://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/u.../7814/E061451A-1D09-3519-ADCBE38C98F77539.jpg


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

asphalt_jesus said:


> Isn't a BOB a trailer? That's different still.
> 
> I'm in Southern California. Sold/maintained a bunch of worksmans years ago. I used one then. I used it in hills. The customers bikes were industrial use. Board flat for them.


Yes, a BOB is a single-wheel trailer. So I'm very familiar with moving a heavy load while balancing it. I can't imagine trying to do it while crammed onto a bike designed for someone much smaller.


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## anotherbrian (Mar 18, 2005)

I have a Big Dummy with a Wee-Ride on it (so in the "stem mount" style") for the youngest, and a stoker bar on the back for his older brother.

While I enjoy the Wee-Ride, I do find it is an awkward fit after a couple miles (I'm 6'1+ with a size L which has a pretty long TT) these days. I mtb'd with the Wee-Ride more than rode the road, and it didn't seem so bad at the time.

If I wanted something safer/as utilitarian, I'd get a long wheelbase Dutch-style cargo bike with the cargo area in the front (i.e. WorkCycles Cargobike Long)










A full on car seat could easily mount in the cargo area to carry an infant ... mount the quick release base and you could pop it in/out as needed. Doesn't vik have one of those (as well as a BD)?


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## Lone Desert Walker (Sep 15, 2011)

I am thinking a boxbike. Maybe a cetma largo with custom box or Bakfiets. The big box offers a very versatile platform for installing seats and baby carriers and I think the box offers some great protection from stuff like stray bikes and sticks and bushes and stuff. You could even put a little rain fly over it. Also they have a commanding presence so moterists may be less likely to try to squeeze around you. Good luck with your search.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

All these methods have their advantages and drawbacks. Trailers are nice because the kid is out of the elements, enclosed, fully supported and not really susceptible to rider crashes. The trailer is not flip-proof, but it doesn't happen often. They can sleep in there, put their gear in there, toys, books, etc, so you may get more miles in. The kids are a little farther away, so conversations are harder, but not impossible.

Kid seats are good for smaller kids, but larger heavier kids can be a problem. Rider crashes are a concern for the kid, weather can be an issue. Conversations are easy. No suspension (unless it's a full sus bike). Shorter seats (like the front mounted ones) may have head support issues if the kid falls asleep. Weight limitations are lower for front mounted seats, higher for rear, mounting conflicts based on the frame, room to haul kid supplies, etc.

Cargo bikes are the most versatile, but also the biggest investment. A big dummy with a pea pod would be very useful, able to grow with the kid, and rides pretty normally. The kid isn't going to be 15lbs forever. 

Bakfliets (sp?) may be more suited to easy cruising, but the kid compartment is more enclosed/encased than the dummy. Might be just as rider/terrain friendly as the dummy, but they don't have that reputation. I can't compare directly, haven't ridden one.

I have a dummy, a chariot, a burly piccolo that mounts on the dummy and a 3 and 5 yo. They can both ride on the back, both in the chariot, one on the piccolo, one on the dummy, etc. I don't have the pea pod chairs, just stoker bars (1 set for each rider), seatbelts and foot pegs. If the weather is nice, they like to ride on the back and on the piccolo. If it's colder or raining, we get out the chariot. I did 18 miles today with 1 kid, and about 9 miles with both, using the chariot as it was pretty wet and chilly. 

I'd say the best way for you depends on what your goals are. If you want to be out all day, gt a trailer so the kid can catch a nap and you can haul their gear. If you want to ride them down to the park at the end of the block, get a mounted seat. If you want to buy 1 setup that will grow as the kid grows, cargo bikes can do that.

Options abound, pick yer poison.

Plum


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

in the netherlands they advise not to use the bike as transport form UNDER 6 months...
not even with a maxi cosi baby carrier. now my daughter is over 6 months, i bought a mounting bracket for the maxicosy. bracket needed to be adapted and is screwed to deck of extra cycle.
Afbeelding
basically i did not know that the maxi cosy carrier also fits to the flight deck adapter as sold for the extracycle
https://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v1/yb/r/GsNJNwuI-UM.gif

FWIW the peopod 3 is nothing more then a rebranded Yepp mini
http://www.fietskinderzitje.nl/collectie/yepp-minihttp://
price level is about 80 to 100 USD.....overhere


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

constantijn13 said:


> in the netherlands they advise not to use the bike as transport form UNDER 6 months...
> not even with a maxi cosi baby carrier. now my daughter is over 6 months, i bought a mounting bracket for the maxicosy. bracket needed to be adapted and is screwed to deck of extra cycle.
> Afbeelding
> basically i did not know that the maxi cosy carrier also fits to the flight deck adapter as sold for the extracycle
> ...


The Peapod 3 is the same as a Yepp Maxi Easyfit, not the Mini

I'd love to see your setup but the image from Facebook doesn't work. Try this TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting


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## constantijn13 (Oct 11, 2006)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/558097_3262784123063_1071014163_33014256_2052148965_n.jpg
another try

since the picture, i moved the bracket to the front of the deck as it felt very flexy with the weight in the back


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

constantijn13 said:


> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/558097_3262784123063_1071014163_33014256_2052148965_n.jpg
> another try
> 
> since the picture, i moved the bracket to the front of the deck as it felt very flexy with the weight in the back


Interesting setup, looks comfy.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Vermont29er said:


> Interesting setup, looks comfy.


Now that makes a lot of sense, specially with the car seat moved forward, great idea.


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## longbikeguy (Jun 4, 2012)

personally i like the kids up front so i can watch and talk to em....


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## ClaytonOregon (Jun 3, 2012)

I view any handle bar related kid carrier as chancing instant death or serious injury. 

I had a wheel get stuck in a large crack in a side walk. Bent my front wheel beyond use AND bent my handle bars!!!!! My bike flipped forward - luckily I was wearing my helmet and my hand/elbow took most of the impact. I was going around 10 mph when it happened. 
Thank goodness my kid was in a trailer.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

The basket bike/bakfiets style cargo bikes worry me tremendously due to the difference in front wheel traction between fully loaded and unloaded. If you've got 100lbs in the basket, I'm sure they handle nicely. But if you've got 15lbs in the basket and you turn on loose or slippery surfaces, I'm skeptical that front wheel is going to hold on.

I just ordered a Yuba Mundo frame (yubaride.com). I'm hoping this is the last word for me in terms of hauling biotic and abiotic passengers.


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## inoy (Mar 1, 2012)

if an additional wheel is ok, a trike maybe? no issues of toppling over.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

trikes are very tippy, i think...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Bill in Houston said:


> trikes are very tippy, i think...


that's for damn sure!

unless you don't ever turn while moving, of course.


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## Carbon_hardtail (Apr 20, 2012)

Low slung recumbent trikes arent tippy at all and are great for transporting cargo. Seriously, look into it. Bikes such the terratrike cruiser. I would reccomend it over the lower rover model, as it is much less tippy. I honestly cant tip mine unless i REALLY try.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

Carbon_hardtail said:


> Low slung recumbent trikes arent tippy at all and are great for transporting cargo. Seriously, look into it. Bikes such the terratrike cruiser. I would reccomend it over the lower rover model, as it is much less tippy. I honestly cant tip mine unless i REALLY try.


Pics! Bonus points and pos rep if you include a doll wrapped in a blanket in the spot where you would put a kid.


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## Carbon_hardtail (Apr 20, 2012)

Bill in Houston said:


> Pics! Bonus points and pos rep if you include a doll wrapped in a blanket in the spot where you would put a kid.


w w w.bentrideronline.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/l-800-600-ae1c65e6-26df-4b8e-a89e-e21d1836a962.jpeg

Sorry i can't post links yet.
Just replace the tree with some sort of mount for a car seat. Stable and safe.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

hmm, okay then. I guess I had pictured riding on streets when I read the first post, but maybe I made that part up. looks like fun. i still wonder how well it will turn with 20-30 lbs of seat and kid up there above the tire.

https://www.bentrideronline.com/wor...600-ae1c65e6-26df-4b8e-a89e-e21d1836a962.jpeg

reps given!


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ClaytonOregon said:


> I view any handle bar related kid carrier as chancing instant death or serious injury.
> 
> I had a wheel get stuck in a large crack in a side walk. Bent my front wheel beyond use AND bent my handle bars!!!!! My bike flipped forward - luckily I was wearing my helmet and my hand/elbow took most of the impact. I was going around 10 mph when it happened.
> Thank goodness my kid was in a trailer.


Maybe you should've been on the road instead of the sidewalk.


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## tenbears10 (Jun 15, 2012)

Take a look at Copenhagen cycle chic The danish carry kids in all sorts of ways on a bike from a very young age. But the infrastructure in the cities is totally different from somewhere like London where I would not take a baby on a bike on the road because the traffic is just too dangerous


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

the-one1 said:


> You have a new baby and it has Psychological problems being in a trailer?


I have friends that bought a house because their 1 year old was depressed from living in an apartment. New parents are something else entirely.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Carbon_hardtail said:


> w w w.bentrideronline.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/l-800-600-ae1c65e6-26df-4b8e-a89e-e21d1836a962.jpeg
> 
> Sorry i can't post links yet.
> Just replace the tree with some sort of mount for a car seat. Stable and safe.


but unfortunately at bumper height. Same problem goes for trailers, and I don't think a little orange flat waving around is nearly as visible to cars as a cyclist who's shoulders are 5' off the ground.


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

carryo bikes - carryo bikes - family bikes - transportbikes - bakfiets - ladcykel - carryo is made in Berlin


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

dang, makes me want to have kids to haul around! Jase, that orange trike is sschweet!


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Yep, we're planning on getting one next year for shopping duties and then maybe a few years later for the kids. Hard to find information on at this point - more expensive than the Nihola, that's for sure!


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

jasevr4 said:


> Yep, we're planning on getting one next year for shopping duties and then maybe a few years later for the kids. Hard to find information on at this point - more expensive than the Nihola, that's for sure!


I like the design. The only drawback I see is the width of the bike. Occasionally we jump onto the sidewalk to get around construction or avoid busy intersections. While the dummy can be wide with all the wide loaders on, it's not usually any wider than a normal bike. Just a consideration. Also wondering how it will do going up and down curbs with the small dual front wheels.

Plum


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

It's funny how Americans obsess about little details so much.


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## JohnTurku (Apr 16, 2013)

Hi.

I'm a bit late to this, I know. Had to defend the Bakfiets though. We got one to haul around a 5, 3 and 0-year old. Ours is a 'long' version from Bakfiets.nl. The two older ones sat on the bench, and the small guy was in a maxi-cosi which fits in a frame in the cargo box. He's been in it since about 4 months old. I probably wouldn't put a younger baby in it - the seat does get bounced a bit, even with the sprung frame that it sits into. Stick to smooth roads or paths when the baby is young. It's nice to have the kids in front of you, for chatting and general supervision (compared to our Burley trailer which we used when we had the 2 older ones only).

You said money-no-object, that's just as well. It's an expensive piece of kit, especially when you add in all the optional bits - second bench, raincover, carseat frame, etc, but the design and finish is excellent. It's very much built-to-last - heavy steel, weatherproof plywood cargo box, maintenance free brakes and hub gear, enclosed chain, etc. I've seen cheaper versions of the same thing and would not recommend them at all. The resale value on the good ones is high. We sold our second car to buy it. It's almost paid itself off already with saved insurance, motor tax, servicing, tyres, fuel and parking charges.

You're 2" taller than me (I'm 6'2"), but I'm able to ride it ok. If I was using it a lot I'd get straighter handlebars to stretch my arms out a bit, and maybe a setback seatpost to gain a bit of saddle-to-bar space. It has to fit my wife too though (5'4"). It's an upright sitting position, and standing on pedals isn't really doable, so you'll be spinning up hills in a low gear.

Compared to a 3-wheeler, it's far more maneouvrable and can be threaded around obstacles, or up and down dished sections of pavement far easier. It's a lot more stable at speed too. As for speed, the drum brakes work ok. They don't have the 'sharp' action of discs or even rim brakes in dry conditions, but they'll slow you down enough, even loaded. Your riding style will change to accomodate it, especially when it's your kid(s) in the front.

As for weather/wintertime, I can't think of anything better - we got a 'Cabriolet' raincover which folds down and back up to keep the kids weather-proofed. There's no reason not to fit winter/studded tyres too - we've moved to the South of Finland so we'll be doing this next winter.


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

> Ps: Trailers maybe safe but they have issues for the baby (Psychological)


Man being in the womb must have really fcuked her up!

Maybe you should wait until she is large enough for a third wheel bike a long...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

JohnTurku said:


> Compared to a 3-wheeler, it's far more maneouvrable and can be threaded around obstacles, or up and down dished sections of pavement far easier. It's a lot more stable at speed too. As for speed, the drum brakes work ok. They don't have the 'sharp' action of discs or even rim brakes in dry conditions, but they'll slow you down enough, even loaded. Your riding style will change to accomodate it, especially when it's your kid(s) in the front.


3 wheelers scare the crap out of me. Only if you live in a place with no hills and you are ok with going slow to avoid tipping in turns is a three wheeler reasonable. I just wouldn't risk it.

I'm also scared of how little traction a bakfiets front wheel would have with a minimal load up front. I imagine riding it unloaded down a hill, getting some speed, and then losing traction while braking in a modest turn.


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## JohnTurku (Apr 16, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> 3 wheelers scare the crap out of me. Only if you live in a place with no hills and you are ok with going slow to avoid tipping in turns is a three wheeler reasonable. I just wouldn't risk it.
> 
> I'm also scared of how little traction a bakfiets front wheel would have with a minimal load up front. I imagine riding it unloaded down a hill, getting some speed, and then losing traction while braking in a modest turn.


I agree with you on the trikes thing. I tried one briefly on a flat indoor circuit at a bike show - I couldn't even imagine moving at speed in it. All I can picture is an uncontrollable shimmy followed by an overturning. An adult version of how kids look when they try to corner too fast on a bike with stabilisers. Admittedly, that was a copy of a Christiana trike (the frame is articulated and you steer the entire box/front half of the bike). I guess the ones with steerable wheels (Nihola, or that orange one above, etc) might be better. More bike-like at least.

As for bakfiets traction, there are a few things working in your favour; 
1. Even unloaded, the thing weighs a ton. Well, 35-40kg. A lot of that is in the frame and cargo box towards the front.
2. That front wheel is a long way away.
3. The rider's (or driver's?) weight is well forward of the back wheel, so a good chunk of that is acting through the front tyre.
4. The tyres are big (2" or so) so that helps the front grip - it's not any way skittish across rough ground - it just steamrolls across it.

Think of the two wheels acting as the supports of a suspension bridge - it would take a huge load on the rear rack to unweight the front.

In summary, it feels very stable loaded or unloaded, even at a reasonable speed or going down (smallish) hills. It feels natural to lean it into turns like a normal bike, so there's no sensation of the front getting light.


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