# Hill Boost



## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

Is there DIY e-bike solution that's sole purpose is to boost a rider up hills? Once on the regular streets and bike paths, I prefer to pedal.

Here's what I'm dealing with:















Thanks!


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Let's say I'm on my Haibike Full FatSix and I encounter this kind of elevation in one of my long, extended runs. For this grade, I could elect to use either the Standard or High power settings on this Yamaha mid-drive system.

Once on the level, I could then power down to Eco or even the Eco+ setting for minor assist levels to my pedaling cadence. Or if I'm getting low on power and wish to make it home on battery power, but without taking the battery power down too far, I could simply shut off all power assist. At that point, I'm pedaling a 52 pound fatbike, minus the packs and gear I carry in weight!

That's how you DIY with a Yamaha mid drive....


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm hoping to set up something sub $500/$400 just for a boost up hills.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

escapedturkey said:


> I'm hoping to set up something sub $500/$400 just for a boost up hills.


400 to 500 isn't likely to get what you need in the ebiking world. But let it be said I'm not a person without solutions. I think I found something that can provide that boost up hills you are seeking AND BEST OF ALL, come in way, way, way under 400 dollars! Link: 




Plus as a side benefit, it'll get the Anti-Ebike crowd triggered all over again, as these fleets of Sail Bikes tack up and down their single track trails, or bombing on a down-haul reach!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Man I’d rather go thru a Sharknado than have that thing tacked to my a**! I did get a laugh though...


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Gutch said:


> Man I'd rather go thru a Sharknado than have that thing tacked to my a**! I did get a laugh though...


I got to thinking about this again; in a more serious perspective. I've seen small sails for sea kayaks and it appears they work quite well in adding some top speed while giving the paddler a break (aside from balance and steering his craft/not allowing the wind to overwhelm his boat). So, looking at it from a coast to coast type of touring bike, a more sophisticated form of this sail could be put to use on those long stretches in the middle of the country. And it may not even have to be a big thing. On those real windy days out on the river in my sea kayak, I found that just putting my paddle blade into the wind got me moving quite nicely!


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

I appreciate the humor and it's making me laugh.

But back on topic, any ideas?

What's the story behind this thing?






(The video is quite funny). :thumbsup:

Not as funny, but a normal review:






I've seen it offered on eBay for a fairly low price. Skeptical. :skep:


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> I got to thinking about this again; in a more serious perspective. I've seen small sails for sea kayaks and it appears they work quite well in adding some top speed while giving the paddler a break (aside from balance and steering his craft/not allowing the wind to overwhelm his boat). So, looking at it from a coast to coast type of touring bike, a more sophisticated form of this sail could be put to use on those long stretches in the middle of the country. And it may not even have to be a big thing. On those real windy days out on the river in my sea kayak, I found that just putting my paddle blade into the wind got me moving quite nicely!


Desert, sure. Singletrack? Idk!


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Escaped:That wheel sure looks interesting and I imagine if the price is right, is right along the lines of what you are looking for. The first video done by the German gent reviews a decent made motor and internals and the fella seemed impressed with the overall build.

Hills really suck the life out of the battery, so the question is, how many wh is this battery? 

Consider checking out the forums like Endless Sphere, the German Pedelec forum and the UK Pedelec forum to see if anyone there has installed and put this motor into use. Endless Sphere is more geared to the home tinkerer types; some great engineering minds going on over here. Us here, we are pretty much the bike rider types who just like the idea of riding something made by OEM manufacturers. I wish you luck in your endeavor and if you could, let us know what you decided to do. I know I'd be interested!

Best Regards,
Mike

PS: I had to laugh at the manufacturer link & name on the american youtube video for this wheel: BangGood dot Com!


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

If all you want is cheap hill boost I've seen people on the internetz rig up a cordless drill that touches the tire tread. Ha ha


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

escapedturkey said:


> Is there DIY e-bike solution that's sole purpose is to boost a rider up hills? Once on the regular streets and bike paths, I prefer to pedal.
> 
> Here's what I'm dealing with:
> 
> ...


Sorry for bumping this 2-week old thread but I didn't see it before.

I assume these graphs are on dirt/gravel roads, or a real trail for the hills?

Let me compare your numbers to mine both with an e-bike and with a pedal bike.

Pedal bike: I've done 800 foot hills, maybe 1.5 to 2.0 miles walking/riding the bike up in 45 minutes. If it's taking you 33 minutes to go up 800 feet and 2.3 miles on an e-bike, that does suck, because you are only averaging 4.2 miles/hour. 6.5% grade. A runner that's in shape could do that as fast.

E-bike: I just did 6 miles up 1050 feet (one way) in about 50 minutes, 7.2 mph average, 3.3% grade, keep in mind most of this was on a dirt road, not too much loose dirt, and I had to push the bike up one short steep incline. 1/2 the grade as yours, 71% faster. My bike would probably have the same problems as yours if it was a 6.5% grade on average.

The whole issue to me is loose dirt and pebbles/gravel. That is 100% of the problem. I can do an e-bike three times as fast as a normal bike up a 6.5% paved incline, but not much faster up a loose dirt 6.5% incline (which is not steep, but I'm sure there are steeper sections within that 6.5% average, that is the issue).

For all of this talk of 1500W bikes, turbo bikes, throttles, it all comes down to traction. It doesn't matter if it's human torque or electric torque: if the torque exceeds the traction of the rear tire, or the rear tire bounces off a small obstacle the wrong way, the rear tire slips, spins, and you stop, period. That is the whole issue. That's why I'm thinking of a + or fat bike for my next e-bike, to help combat this climbing issue. As for throttles, mine is cheap and is basically on/off, it's 1100W or nothing. Anything over 400W or so will end up spinning the tire and is useless for climbing. A wider, knobbier rear tire seems the only (partial) solution.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

richj8990 said:


> Sorry for bumping this 2-week old thread but I didn't see it before.
> 
> I assume these graphs are on dirt/gravel roads, or a real trail for the hills?
> 
> ...


Technique and tire pressure are two huge factors in climbing, no matter what you ride. What pressures are you running?


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

This isn't meant to be a smart arse question/post but have you thought about spending that budget on the existing power source - you?
Gym time or basic weights equipment to improve your core and lower body may cost far less than your budget.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

JackWare said:


> This isn't meant to be a smart arse question/post but have you thought about spending that budget on the existing power source - you?
> Gym time or basic weights equipment to improve your core and lower body may cost far less than your budget.


Why do that when you can just buy that same thing and still not have to put any effort into it.


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Technique and tire pressure are two huge factors in climbing, no matter what you ride. What pressures are you running?


His pressures are not important in understanding why he loses traction on steep climbs w/loose dirt and pebbles/gravel.

What is important is the basic physics of weight transfer.

Of course a front wheel drive motor bicycle is going to spin out when it gets steep and loose.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I forgot it was front wheel drive! Add reverse and go backwords.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Gutch said:


> Technique and tire pressure are two huge factors in climbing, no matter what you ride. What pressures are you running?


Well since I have a front hub drive, and have tubes in both tires, they are both pretty high, about 30 psi for each. I'd much rather have worse climbing than have a flat that would take an hour to fix on the front hub out there. Back tire is high because it tends to pop regardless of bike type. I don't know about the OP's setup. And yes I know to get a mid-drive next time. Oh well, still having fun with it. Have to run to the market 5 miles away tonight, perfect excuse to use the bike lol.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Gutch said:


> I forgot it was front wheel drive! Add reverse and go backwords.


Yeah, I almost feel like I should not post in here because my bike is soooo different from the average e-bike. Just confuses people. It's like going into the XC racing forum and talking about my 33 lb bike, they'd be like huh? But in a way it's cool for a front hub because it's all-wheel drive, e-power in the front, pedal power in the back.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

No worries bud, my bad I overlooked the front wheel drive. Ride and be happy, I judge no one.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Gutch said:


> No worries bud, my bad I overlooked the front wheel drive. Ride and be happy, I judge no one.


I talked to the LBS today, they will do tubeless for only $30 each if I have the stems and tape (which I do...somewhere). I never thought I'd try to do the E-bike tubeless until you mentioned tire pressure and grip. Problem is on this bike all tires in the garage are non-TR, so I'll wear them down and then buy some Maxxis TR tires for them to be tubeless, and then that may help the climbing situation a lot (not to mention the front tire bouncing). The funny thing is that most people equate tubeless with performance, and the bike should perform better, but in this case it's really not having to worry about flats on the hub wheel, because that would really suck out there. I can change a normal wheel on a dirt trail in 10-15 min but not how it's setup right now. It's significantly more complicated than others make it out to be; an electric front hub is not a simple change out to a different wheel. Not to mention I don't like carrying a heavy wrench to get the side nuts off the wheel.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

JackWare said:


> This isn't meant to be a smart arse question/post but have you thought about spending that budget on the existing power source - you?
> Gym time or basic weights equipment to improve your core and lower body may cost far less than your budget.


Will it cure spondylitis?


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Sorry, you'll need to ask someone else


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> Sorry for bumping this 2-week old thread but I didn't see it before.
> 
> I assume these graphs are on dirt/gravel roads, or a real trail for the hills?
> 
> ...


Those are winding asphalt roads. i use slick tires. But as I was forced to confess in another post, I have a physical issue that gets in the way and causes a lot of pain. But I want to keep riding.

Should I consider tires with more tread, even for street? I assumed slick tires stick to the road better, but never considered the increased torque via a motor.


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## FZBob (Apr 14, 2008)

escapedturkey said:


> Is there DIY e-bike solution that's sole purpose is to boost a rider up hills? Once on the regular streets and bike paths, I prefer to pedal.
> 
> Thanks!


Have you been over to the "Endless Sphere" Forums? Lots of DIY E-Bike stuff there...

How much DIY can you do - Bolt on only? Cut & Drill metal? Solder?

$400-500 should get you into a Cyclone mid drive kit, depending on batteries. This is an industrial brushless DC gearmotor/controller, some cheesy mounting brackets, and some really cheesy steel sprockets. I did one of these 8 years ago, but I built my own mounts, and used a bicycle chainring on the crank. Adds about 12 lbs, but almost bolt on.

I recently built an assist using an RC motor, a skateboard controller, and one RC battery pack. Much nicer than the Cyclone and only adds 5.5 lbs. I had to fab a mount, modify a sprocket, solder some wiring and set up some parameters in the controller. 
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=96769&p=1418630#p1418630

I often ride climbs like you posted, usually on my non-Ebike. When I take the Ebike, about 160 to 200 watts of assist makes these hills feel almost effortless. When I'm done climbing, the bike (Giant Reign) feels just like it always did.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

Yep! I responded to you via private message.


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