# Helicopter Insurance?



## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Nothing is gonna stop us from riding in the mountains. It is what we do so it is inevitable that we are riding in remote areas with poor access. 

I was just reading an article where someone got injured and got helicoptered out. Whether he needed the helicopter or not, he was hit with an enormous bill. Tens of thousands for the ride. The guy was asking afterwards "Was the helicopter totally necessary?" If in that situation, I am sure you do have right to refuse helicopter but in many cases, "how are you gonna get to the hospital?" So, a lot of times it can be the rescuer's call on whether you need a helicopter or not. The rescuers are more likely gonna want to call the helicopter even though it may not be necessary because they need to pay the bills. A rescue helicopter not in use is losing money. 

I have had a little experience with emergency service as my dad was having a lot of health problems. One instance, I got sternly lectured by hospital staff or for driving my dad to the emergency rather than calling an ambulance even though it only took 15 minutes to drive him there. I knew it would of been longer if I called an ambulance because I experienced that route a few times before. I do understand the hospital's thinking as they need to pay for all the paramedics that are working because they have a lot of idle time. However, to me it is about the most efficient way to get to the hospital and I want to be able to make the last decision of what is best for me. 

Anybody have experience with this? Is there helicopter/rescue insurance for mountain bikers that protect against enormous rescue bills if something happens?


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

That's interesting. There was a mandown (unconscious) recently in SoCal:

Mountain biker critically injured in fall in Angeles National Forest | Crime Scene

I always assumed these helicopter rides to hospital were free but maybe a wrong assumption. i.e. as in state pays every time but then that seems like a waste of taxpayers money sort of?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

yeah, not free. somebody's paying for that every time. it costs $500-800/hr to operate a helicopter. not including the $ for pilots, medical staff, and other consumables. 

every time those things leave the pad it instantly becomes a 5-10k expense. even if it turns back mid flight and you never receive any medical services. though i think it depends on who makes the call and who calls it off. 

last i knew it was $5k but that was 10 years ago. 

I think, but don't know for sure, some peoples insurance does cover mercy-flight, at least partially.

edit: curious to see if anyone blows my old info out of the water.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

so even another reason this mtn biking sport is so damn expensive.

I thought having a $3500 german Diezel guitar amp and other hundreds of $$$ of gear was expensive...


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

https://www.hccmis.com/what-is-the-crisis-response-benefit/index.html


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

This article is dated 2009:

"The average distance of the trips is 52 miles, but the costs vary widely. There's no national requirement to track or report fees, but they can range from less than $12,000 to as much as $25,000 per flight, according to Craig M. Yale, vice president of corporate development for Air Methods Corp., the nation's largest provider of air medical transport systems."

"About 40 percent of patients who require emergency air transport have some kind of private health insurance, but about only about 60 percent of insurers pay the full costs, Hutton said. Some insurers pay as little as $300 out of a $17,000 bill, for instance. Others can stall on payment, forcing air transport companies to bill and re-bill."

Air ambulances leave some with sky-high bills - Health - Health care | NBC News

seems like it will be more expensive now. that's scary.


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## Thmp Thmp (Jun 29, 2008)

Calstar offers really cheap insurance, but they only serve central/northern California. 
Membership | Affordable Coverage for Air Medical Services | CALSTAR

As mentioned above, a lot of health insurance policies offer flight coverage.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

I have Anthem Blue Cross in California (small group plan - my company has max 50 employees):

Air Ambulance
Air Ambulance Pay	70% (in network)	50% (out network)
Non Medical Emergency Maximum Per Trip $50,000


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

Here in Idaho, I had an accident on my dirtbike. Head injury. Brain bleed and swelling. LifeFlight helo for 30min cost 26,800. I have had LifeFlight for 15yrs here at 50.00 per. I am glad I did. Not just for back country, but if I or anyone in my family had an accident, even on the hiway, and needed helo evac. it pays for that as well. Get it!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

First Responders dealing with your trauma are the ones making the call on airlifting a patient based on the injuries and level of service as well as location of the facility that will supply that level of service. It's not just a casual decision because it's "easier" or the Helo "needs to make money" as alluded to in the OP's post.

You are likely receiving ALS (Advanced Life Support) not BLS (Basic) if you're going for a ride, otherwise you're not likely to be in a helo. It's shortening the travel time during that "golden hour" and most likely saving your life. Here in CA, a helo transport will cost an easy $25-35,000 dollars. These airlifts are done by non-profits that survive on their billings and private donations. In my region of the state, we have CalStar (CA Shock Trauma Air Rescue). I pay $35 a year for a "family membership" because I engage in mtb riding as well as lots of street moto touring so I'm an excellent candidate for a ride if I'm involved in an accident with either of those activities. My insurance pays for a ride, as well so whatever portion of the bill isn't covered, CalStar considers it "paid in full" because I'm a member. If I had no coverage by insurance, they would give it to me free. There is reciprocity between CalStar and Enloe LifeFlight and a few others operating out of Reno and Oregon. REACH in the bay area does NOT share reciprocity so you need to participate in their program as well if there's a chance you'll get scooped by them.

For those out of my territory, find out what "life flight" services you have in the areas you frequent and look into their programs. I believe most services offer something.

And OP, regarding your Dad's transport experience. It's not about the 15 minutes. It's about what the paramedics and EMT's are capable of doing while on scene and during transport. What would you do if his heart stopped 2 minutes into your travel to the hospital? I can tell you exactly what the ambulance crew would be doing but I'm guessing you know the answer to that one.


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## Padgman (Jun 21, 2015)

If you are the patient and can make sound decisions meaning you are alert to person, place, time etc. then you have the ability to refuse transportation via ambulance or helicopter. Having said that, the responders know the area and conditions well and they have protocols set in place to make the best decision for the pt. They know the area, distance, weather and things like that to push them in the right direction. Don't forget extent of injuries!


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Oh My Sack! said:


> And OP, regarding your Dad's transport experience. It's not about the 15 minutes. It's about what the paramedics and EMT's are capable of doing while on scene and during transport. What would you do if his heart stopped 2 minutes into your travel to the hospital? I can tell you exactly what the ambulance crew would be doing but I'm guessing you know the answer to that one.


I am not saying emergency transport is bad, but you have to make the best judgement call for that particular situation. You can't really make judgement on that situation if you don't know the entire story of what physically was happening to him.

This thread is about helicopter transport insurance and expenses. Not the efficiency of auto ambulance service.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I'm pretty sure in most places if they get you a tax payers heli, like the fire dept. or police dept., you won't get a bill, unless you were out somewhere breaking the law. When the fire dept. picked up my fathers body out of a canyon, we didn't get a bill.


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## TJay74 (Sep 26, 2012)

Old friend's son was part of a bad accident about a month ago that took the life of one kid and injured 3 others including her son. They life flight him from the accident to the hospital, she got the EOB paperwork the other day. The bill was $37k for the flight.

All her son had was a badly broken arm.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'm pretty sure in most places if they get you a tax payers heli, like the fire dept. or police dept., you won't get a bill, unless you were out somewhere breaking the law. When the fire dept. picked up my fathers body out of a canyon, we didn't get a bill.


which state?


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

So at least in California, in some case it's CHP heli:

Video: CHP helicopter assists injured hiker

Definitive for CA:

"If you are ever rescued by CHP, you will not have to worry about the cost because it is free."

Cost of flying the CHP helicopter | Local News - Home

But does that "free" include the medical services while in the plane or at the hospital? I'm guessing not.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

About two years ago, I bought an AirMedCare Network policy. It's $68/yr and covers all of the members in my household. My oldest son moved out a year ago, so I bought him a policy also this year. 

I am planning a trip to Moab in October and it looks like it doesn't extend service to Utah, though. It covers Nevada, Colorado and Idaho, but not Utah for some reason. Odd


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

CHP in CA is set up for rescue / recovery. What they typically do is scoop and recover a patient and get the patient out of the hazardous zone and to an LZ where paramedics and ambulance can transport. It's a rarity that they would transport to a hospital but that has happened in our area of the Central Coast when our CalStar unit is tied up at the same time. As mentioned above, the CHP ride is typically a freebie. They just completed an extensive training session here locally with numerous agencies that might be involved so all first responders would be familiar with the process. CalStar, with the exception of very rare events, does not offer any recovery services. They just scoop, treat, and transport.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

asookazian said:


> which state?


California, the state Arnold ****ed up!


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

In the UK they fund the mountain and air sea rescue helicopters out of the defense budget and the air force and navy do it, so no hefty bill. The argument goes that it gives the pilot and crews real world experience without having to fight anybody.

I think the air ambulances are funded through the NHS and also free, but not lived there for a long while.

I used to be a volunteer with the local mountain rescue, run by the cops, when I lived in the Highlands. The local cop used to get 1 day off a month for mountain rescue training. Occasionaly this would be a combined airforce / mountain rescue "training day" and we would get choppered into the bottom of the climb and air lifted off from the top and dropped back at the road head where the vehicles were parked.


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## loneviking (Mar 30, 2015)

I have the Cal Star insurance with reciprocity with several other carriers. It's only 50 bucks for the family and well worth it as a ride will cost you in the 12,000 to 25,000 range depending on what has to be done to you.


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## Xylx (Mar 18, 2005)

I started buying lifeflight insurance from Saint Lukes in Idaho about 5 years ago after a friend of mine got charged $15,000 for a 100 mile flight out of McCall after having a heart attack. His insurance only covered the first $5K. It's only $55 a year which is very very cheap insurance. I mountain bike and ride motorcycles to remote locations, but just having it for me and my wife in case we wreck in our car out on the highway is worth it.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

But, isn't there a big chance that the insurance you get does cover the particular helicopter the gives you a ride? And, it's not like you have a choice as to which one picks you up.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

I was recently flown to a hospital after a bad wreck.

Base rate = $27,000
32 miles = $9,000
misc = $2,000

Total = $38,000

My insurance denied the claim along with a $45,000 claim from the hospital. Currently working on getting them approved.

I was told there's an $80/year service that will cover all flights for a family, but don't have much info on that yet.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

pay it

it's the cost of playing in the big mountains


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Plain and simple, if you think that way you're a fool.



aliikane said:


> Nothing is gonna stop us from riding in the mountains. It is what we do so it is inevitable that we are riding in remote areas with poor access.
> 
> I was just reading an article where someone got injured and got helicoptered out. Whether he needed the helicopter or not, he was hit with an enormous bill. Tens of thousands for the ride. The guy was asking afterwards "Was the helicopter totally necessary?" If in that situation, I am sure you do have right to refuse helicopter but in many cases, "how are you gonna get to the hospital?" So, a lot of times it can be the rescuer's call on whether you need a helicopter or not. The rescuers are more likely gonna want to call the helicopter even though it may not be necessary because they need to pay the bills. A rescue helicopter not in use is losing money.
> 
> ...


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

127.0.0.1 said:


> pay it
> 
> it's the cost of playing in the big mountains


Well I would agree with you if I didn't pay hundreds of dollars a month for insurance with a specifically listed benefit for air ambulance.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

coke said:


> Well I would agree with you if I didn't pay hundreds of dollars a month for insurance with a specifically listed benefit for air ambulance.


Your insurance specifically has a helicopter clause and they still refuse to pay? What the hell? Insurance companies are begging to be sued.

As I stated a couple of years ago, ^^^ up there, I pay ~$65/yr. for a helicopter transport plan.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

coke said:


> I was recently flown to a hospital after a bad wreck.


Damn, How you doing?

That's a big bill, hopefully you can convince the insurance company to cover it.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Damn, How you doing?
> 
> That's a big bill, hopefully you can convince the insurance company to cover it.


http://forums.mtbr.com/rider-down-i...e-story-pictures-warning-graphic-1086610.html

It should eventually be covered. It seems that for some large claims, the default thing for the insurance is to deny them and require them to be filed again, typically requesting less money.

Hospital denied claim was due to all hospital stays requiring pre approval. Hard to get that though when unconscious


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Jiminy Cricket! That's going to leave a mark. 

Hope you heal fast! What is the expected outcome, any long term damage or will it mostly heal?


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Jiminy Cricket! That's going to leave a mark.
> 
> Hope you heal fast! What is the expected outcome, any long term damage or will it mostly heal?


Everything is expected to return to normal except I just have to wait and see what happens with the nerve.


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