# When are dropper posts "needed"?



## UFMatt (Jul 30, 2009)

I see a lot of people rave about dropper posts, but in my limited riding I've done so far (I'm in FL so no steep downhill/uphill sections other than short jaunts on the trails that run through old phosphate mines) I haven't ever felt that my seat was in the way. Is this something that's more applicable when doing downhill trails as opposed to xc? Or am I just not riding hard enough yet? (Wait...maybe don't answer that one! ha :thumbsup

Matt


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

They're great for steep descents through rock gardens, drops, etc. True XC in a place like FL probably not as important.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Needed: never.

Helpful: frequently, depending on your trails.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

There have only been a handful of times I have even wanted to use my dropper. 

High speed, rough downhills. Slower speed technical stuff, I still like having the seat up.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I have never 'needed' one, nor did anyone else up until pretty recently. 
I did install one on my latest build to try it out and see what all the hype was about. Been running it for a few months now and it's coming off; I don't find I have much use for it and it just adds unnecessary complication. If I'm going to be hitting any sort of extended rough downhill, I've never had a problem with just flipping the seat QR and dropping it a couple inches once in awhile.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

People run their saddles too high. 

Seriously - I get the impression that a ton of mountain bikers are convinced they get the best power transmission with their saddles as high as possible. That's really not true, and it interferes with handling the bike. I feel like I get pretty good clearance to my saddle when I stand up a little to ride a technical section.

Since dropper posts get such rave reviews around here, I tried one several months ago. I was all excited about the idea of buying one. I'm really a XC guy, but there are some fun flow lines and a lot of vert on the mountain near my house, and I ride all that stuff too. So I thought maybe I'd be able to handle my bike a bit better through that stuff and have more fun. Not that my saddle was really in my way to begin with, but sometimes we don't realize things are in the way until they're solved.

Actually, I found the droppers on the demo bikes difficult to use, too hard to come up over the top of a climb and drop without stopping. I don't like to stop, so bottom line was that this is a couple hundred dollar part that adds weight and complication to my bike and doesn't fit into how I like to ride. So I spent the money chipping away at my student loan instead.

Definitely try it. You don't have to agree with me. Just find a way to demo one before you commit.

I should add that I use a pretty skinny saddle and seat bag, and wear lycra cycling shorts. So the saddle doesn't interfere if I want to get the bike out in front of me.

I could see it if I did more jumping, though.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> People run their saddles too high.
> 
> Seriously - I get the impression that a ton of mountain bikers are convinced they get the best power transmission with their saddles as high as possible.
> 
> ...


This is almost me to a tee.
Road bike height and mountain bike height are two different things. Mountain bike can be a little lower, and still be perfect.

I got mine since I kept hearing how awesome they are. I actually found dropping it on most of our stuff here made the bike handling worse, as I did not have the saddle to use as leverage on my legs.

I run a Fizik Arione VS saddle. Obviously it is a very narrow, very firm, road saddle. With my cycling shorts (lycra), I can slip behind the saddle and back over it very very easily. I am tall enough too, that I can ALMOST sit on the rear tire with my saddle at riding height. 
Now, I just recently went to Virginia around the Harrisonburg area, and rode there. While I would not say the stuff was as "difficult" technical wise, it was must faster, and had much more chop. I did find I liked the dropper down just a hint there though, as the bike did bounce around more. The large chunk technical stuff like I am used to here, where I feel it is more bike finesse, I find the dropper is not needed in the slightest.


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## Backyard Pro (Jul 16, 2010)

I dropped my seat a few inched lower than where the lbs put it for me while fitting the bike.

It still gets in the way trying to lean back and lean sideways through corners.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Backyard Pro said:


> I dropped my seat a few inched lower than where the lbs put it for me while fitting the bike.
> 
> It still gets in the way trying to lean back and lean sideways through corners.


A "few inches" is a massive amount. A half inch to an inch would be a more appropriate amount if you felt for some reason that you needed to lower the saddle. *Edit: I mean to say that's too much lowering your saddle for all-around riding. If you're lowering it for a certain trail section or downhill portion you can slam it to the TT*

The reason droppers are so popular is that you don't have to compromise. You get both good pedaling efficiency and good bike handling position without having to stop and move the seat height, which is what I still find myself doing. Long climb: saddle up, long tech decent, saddle low.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

zebrahum said:


> The reason droppers are so popular is that you don't have to compromise. You get both good pedaling efficiency and good bike handling position without having to stop and move the seat height, which is what I still find myself doing. Long climb: saddle up, long tech decent, saddle low.


I found to get my seat to end up right where I wanted it, I got quicker results by stopping and adjusting it even with the dropper. Otherwise it would take a few tries to get it right using ass pressure to move it. Doesn't save me any real time over a QR, and costs a whole shitload more $$$ (and added weight and complication) for something I find I only use once every few hours. IMO, there are way more worthwhile things to spend a few hundred bucks on.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

It blows my mind how difficult people make droppers out to be. I seem to always get the saddle right where I want it. It doesnt complicate my riding in the slightest. It has become as natural as shifting and if anything it simplifies my riding, and makes it safer.

One of my favorite riding spots is steep up followed by steep down, repeat. The dropper has completely transformed riding that trail system for me. 

For $200 for my Reverb and +.75lbs, I can't complain. They are not for everyone, but I am not going back.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

UFMatt said:


> I see a lot of people rave about dropper posts, but in my limited riding I've done so far (I'm in FL so no steep downhill/uphill sections other than short jaunts on the trails that run through old phosphate mines) I haven't ever felt that my seat was in the way. Is this something that's more applicable when doing downhill trails as opposed to xc? Or am I just not riding hard enough yet? (Wait...maybe don't answer that one! ha :thumbsup
> 
> Matt


I don't think they are "needed" at all. They can be handy, but that depends on your riding style. You can always test out the need by manually lowering the seat when you get to a gnarly downhill and see it helps you or not. If you don't feel any improvement it is probably not worth it money.

Personally I don't run one and never lower the seat. I have never found myself in spot where I felt the seat was causing an issue. There is alot of stuff I can ride, but some stuff I can't (or won't) seat or not. However that is just me.


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## bear99 (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm relatively new to the sport, and bought my current bike used (it came with a dropper). It was an older model CB Kronolog, which is notorious for having issues. Sure enough, this past weekend it broke on me. I wasn't able to use it for ~3 days worth of trail riding (which had some fast, somewhat techy DH stuff where the dropper would have come in handy).

It was a bummer b/c I had learned to use it and for me it was definitely a FUN component of the bike, just having the option to drop the seat whenever I wanted. I think its helpful in certain situations but isn't a requirement.

Having the dropper is great but I think the fun factor drops by less than 1% even if I didn't have one. And that's what we're all here for right? The fun???


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> I found to get my seat to end up right where I wanted it, I got quicker results by stopping and adjusting it even with the dropper. Otherwise it would take a few tries to get it right using ass pressure to move it. Doesn't save me any real time over a QR, and costs a whole shitload more $$$ (and added weight and complication) for something I find I only use once every few hours. IMO, there are way more worthwhile things to spend a few hundred bucks on.


Certainly some systems function better than others. Even the best functioning systems will need service and/or wear out eventually. There's no question they cost a lot but for some people that's not as big a concern; it would be foolish to dissuade people because something was too expensive for you just like it would be foolish to suggest that a dropper post is a necessity if you want to ride a mountain bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

moefosho said:


> It blows my mind how difficult people make droppers out to be. I seem to always get the saddle right where I want it.


Likewise, it blows my mind how difficult people make riding up and down stuff without constantly adjusting seat position out to be.  
Folks most be riding some seriously gnarly trails to need 4 or 5 inches of drop regularly.

I so think if I tried one that had adjustable increments that I might like it more. I'd probably make use of a 1" drop on my HT fairly often if it was quick and foolproof (and not accompanied by a rattly frigging seat.)


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

zebrahum said:


> Certainly some systems function better than others. Even the best functioning systems will need service and/or wear out eventually. There's no question they cost a lot but for some people that's not as big a concern; it would be foolish to dissuade people because something was too expensive for you just like it would be foolish to suggest that a dropper post is a necessity if you want to ride a mountain bike.


Let's not go confusing my opinion that something is a waste of money with me not being able to afford it. There are no mtb products that are out of my price range should I decide they are worthwhile purchases. Like I said, I have one on a bike right now; if I thought it was great, I'd put them on a few of my other bikes too, but I'm not really feeling it. There's a big difference between 'can't afford' and 'don't see the value of'. I figure there are a lot of people out there, specially beginners, that don't have the liquidity or inclination to drop substantial amounts of money into their bikes for arguably minor 'advantages', hence my advice.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

UFMatt said:


> When are dropper posts "Needed"
> 
> Matt


Like Zebrahum said needed? never. But in general needed sense. You need to lower your post when you are not doing long not so technical climb. That one you actually need 1/2" higher especially when you are on a full suspension.

You benefit from 1-1.5" lower than optimum climb saddle height every where on the trail including short steep technical climbs, as it gives you more room to move your mass around the cockpit. For the descend, especially technical descend you need the most room and dropping 4-6" would make the descend 100% if not more, easier for your given ability.

That said, plenty of good riders with serious mtb kung fu can ride with or without seatpost or as high or as low as they want without changing. For his training Mark Weir used to ride his 36 pound Nomad with one ring and seat drop all the way down doing climbs that's equivalent to a my weekly ride, it's mind numbingly difficult.


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## velo99 (Apr 18, 2014)

The only time I ever notice my saddle is when it beats the crap out of my boys when I don't stand up far enough on short rough crossings.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

moefosho said:


> It blows my mind how difficult people make droppers out to be. I seem to always get the saddle right where I want it. It doesnt complicate my riding in the slightest. It has become as natural as shifting and if anything it simplifies my riding, and makes it safer.
> 
> One of my favorite riding spots is steep up followed by steep down, repeat. The dropper has completely transformed riding that trail system for me.
> 
> For $200 for my Reverb and +.75lbs, I can't complain. They are not for everyone, but I am not going back.


I adjust my saddle height as many times as shifting if not more, and I'm constantly shifting. My goal with any of my bikes is to wear our the little pulley on my derailleur. I'm failing miserably.

After years of hanging around old school who has to have their saddle height to the fraction of a mm, I decided not to have an inch here an inch there bother me. Weight added is never an issue, heck I added 2 pounds on top of the Dropper post for the Hammerschmidt drivetrain, on both my AM bike and XC bike and I'm faster up and down the hill.

Last XC race I entered I was on an XC bike with dropper post, Hammerschmidt, and flat pedals I zipped pass plenty of young racers on the 29er hardtail who have to walk their bikes thru the bottle neck and stupid technical section on the first lap, only a few caught up to me later.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

I refuse to ride a bike without a dropper. It is physically impossible to ride the same without one. But I also ride a 40mm stem, 785mm bars, and a 1x drivetrain. Most people I know don't understand those either. YMMV.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Nobody "needs" a dropper post. 

I live in Western NC where the trails can get pretty gnarly and just finally got a dropper post on my full suspension bike. From now on, I will want one on any future full suspension bike. 

I don't have one on my SS Hardtail. Not sure if I want one on it or not. Sometimes I think I do, others not so much. 

I would say if you find yourself having trouble in situations where you need to get behind the seat or you are stopping a lot to make adjustments to your seat for climbing or going down hill than you may want one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Thustlewhumber said:


> I refuse to ride a bike without a dropper. It is physically impossible to ride the same without one. But I also ride a 40mm stem, 785mm bars, and a 1x drivetrain. Most people I know don't understand those either. YMMV.


I run all those things too. Understand the dropper 100%, it's a finacy Hite Rite with a remote; I ran one of those for awhile many years ago too. I just don't find them all that useful. As said, YMMV.


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## IoC (May 14, 2009)

kjlued said:


> I live in Western NC where the trails can get pretty gnarly and just finally got a dropper post on my full suspension bike...I don't have one on my SS Hardtail. Not sure if I want one on it or not. Sometimes I think I do, others not so much.


Check out Dicky's blog entry on the matter. He's been running a drooper on his SS Hardtail on PMBAR, Trans-sylvania, etc., and basically considers it essential. FWIW, now that I'm used to full-rigid riding, I'm seriously debating the replacing the Tallboy with a 1x10 dropper-equipped hardtail in the next year or two.**

Bad Idea Racing: Droop, There It Is

** And that's a replacement for speed through Pisgah, not to be more 'hardcore.' If it's faster in Pisgah, I'm pretty sure it'd be faster just about anywhere else on earth.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

you aren't riding hard enough. People that say they tried them and didn't see the need, I think also probably not riding that hard. 

the only time I'd consider a dropper not really worth it would be a road bike.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Joules said:


> you aren't riding hard enough. People that say they tried them and didn't see the need, I think also probably not riding that hard.
> 
> the only time I'd consider a dropper not really worth it would be a road bike.


Ug... now we've resorted to critiquing riding ability when we're talking about equipment? Solid thread, this one.


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## IoC (May 14, 2009)

Joules said:


> the only time I'd consider a dropper not really worth it would be a road bike.


Even the roadies are getting in on it....Nibali had a 1cm dropper on his Tour de France bike this year:

Vincenzo Nibali has this height-adjustable post on one of his bike. By turning the thick part with one hand, he can drop the saddle about 1cm. Photos | Cyclingnews.com


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't think they're ever needed. If you're hitting a steep section, it's no big deal to manually lower the seat. 

BUT, I find them to be a huge convenience on mixed terrain and fast descents. I expected to use it primarily on the sustained downhills, steep drops, which I did. What I didn't expect was how often it becomes useful in a a trial with lots of little up-and-down sections. There are those really short sections where it's nice to get the saddle out of the way, but are too short to stop and manually put it down, then back up again at the end. There aren't a whole lot of loooong downhill runs where I normally ride, so this accounts for the majority of dropper post usage for me.

Another surprising thing about the dropper was how much I use it on fast flats or smooth flow trails. Getting my center of gravity lower really helps me maintain balance and feel more "in" the bike on fast, high speed areas. Instead of being perched up on the saddle, I'm able to get lower on the bike, and it's easier for me to move my body around for cornering. Better balance, more centered body weight between front and rear, and more traction because of that.

And the last surprising thing I found was that with a fixed post, I was frequently running my post lower for pedaling than I should have been. After a few rides, I kept moving the dropper higher just a bit at a time. Pedaling stroke was better, more efficient, and similar to the way I have my road bike set up. I found I was running the fixed post lower, because at optimal pedaling height it was just too high for the steep and rough sections to be comfortable. I finally figured out I was running the dropper almost 1/2" higher than my fixed post. 

YMMV, but I found that a dropper post made my knees happier(running the post higher), times were better going up and down, and overall made riding a whole lot more fun. On the downside, it's one more thing to think about while riding and operate with a hand already working brakes and shifting. It's also going to add 1/2# or more to your bike, and possibly need maintenance now and then.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

My first bike clinic with Joe Lawwill was before the explosion of the dropper posts. He'd advocate dropping the post thru tech sections and not leaving it high to promote body mass transfer. It was amazing to see how he dropped his post on the move. 

He'd just pinch the nose of the saddle with his thigh and with one hand flip open the quick release post, then lower the saddle 4-5" then flip it close. The when approaching the climb he'd just do the same in reverse. He did it so fast and smooth and made it look so easy, I thought to myself may be I don't need the adjustable post

Another one of my favorite things he did was wheelie. That guy can ride on the back wheel til the tire worn out and burst, then he'd probably be riding it on the rim. He start with 2 hand, then he'd shift up or down, then he'd take one hand off the bar. Then his back seem to needed cracking so he took both hands off the bar and put it on his hip and started cracking his back, all while doing wheelie. What a show off, I'm jealous.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

zebrahum said:


> Ug... now we've resorted to critiquing riding ability when we're talking about equipment? Solid thread, this one.


Obviously no one on the planet rode hard until a few years ago when droppers got trendy. And of course, everyone with a dropper post now rides harder than everyone without one. And makes more money.

So stupid it hurts.


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## hags707 (Apr 22, 2010)

UFMatt you don't need a dropper post like said by most, but if you find yourself stopping to adjust the seat post often then you can probably find the true benefit to having one. I like to lower the seat when descending and man made obstacles it gives me more confidence and there for I ride it faster/harder then if it was up. Rip down the downs and pop peddle up the ups FLOW never stops until my weak body needs a breather.


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## dirtyBob (Jun 1, 2005)

Just bought a thompson elite dropper about 3 months ago and love it. first dropper post i've ever had after more than 20 years of mountain biking. i used to ride with my seat in the "compromise" position because i hated stopping to drop or raise my seat. i kept it a little lower than would be optimum for uphill pedaling power and high enough that i could just barely get over it when necessary, but I had a lot of seats to the nuts and hits to the stomach on those super sketchy sliding downhills over the years. i would agree with the sentiment that you don't "need" one. i would, however, highly recommend one (based on personal experience) if you are doing either or both of two things frequently:
1. getting air
2. sliding down chutes/steep faces of any sort

after a couple months of using the dropper, it's as automatic as shifting gears and i never have to take my hand off the grip to drop it before a dh. no more seats to the groin or stomach and i can raise my seat that little bit more on the up. it is truly a "cherry on top" piece of equipment.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Joules said:


> you aren't riding hard enough. People that say they tried them and didn't see the need, I think also probably not riding that hard.
> 
> the only time I'd consider a dropper not really worth it would be a road bike.


Or maybe he doesn't need equipment to make up for ability and skills like those who feel you have to have a dropper in order to ride hard.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

Here is the deal with droppers: you absolutely don't need them, just like you don't need front suspension; rear suspension; wide bars; gears; tubeless tires; disc brakes etc.. However, a dropper will allow you to ride rough terrain faster and in better control, and for me, that is more fun. It is indisputable that you can be in a better body position with the seat out of the way, and a dropper lets you do that. For the argument that people make that they have no problem getting behind their saddle...well, of course not, no one does, but hanging off the back of the bike behind your saddle is not a centered position that gives you good control, and certainly not optimal. A dropper lets you get into the optimal descending position depending on the terrain. It is the biggest advancement in years for improving my riding, and there is no way I would ever get rid of it regardless of my local trails...it helps everywhere and becomes effortless once you are used to it. So no, you don't need it, but it is a great thing to have.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> Obviously no one on the planet rode hard until a few years ago when droppers got trendy. And of course, everyone with a dropper post now rides harder than everyone without one. And makes more money.
> 
> So stupid it hurts.


Seriously, if I could just afford a dropper maybe I could ride all those trails I already ride...

I love droppers, I would love it if every entry and intermediate level bike had one on it, I have seen droppers make fast and impressive progress for timid riders many times over now. It doesn't mean you need one, it doesn't mean people with or without them ride a certain way, and it doesn't mean anyone should be beaten up because they think they want one. There are pros and cons, I think they've been listed but let's break it down:

Pros: don't have to stop to change saddle height which comes in handy when you have to do it a lot or a trail section comes up when you're not expecting it. Changing saddle height allows you more room to move around and gives you easier control over the bike while maintaining the rider's ability to pedal efficiently.

Cons: expensive, needs maintenance, some of them have side-to-side play, heavier than non-dropper posts.

That's about it; if you value easier control of the bike in downhills and technical sections over weight and cost, or however you see your balance then you can make your decision. It's not much more difficult than that.

If you can't decide, go to a bike shop and try one.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

teamdicky started a thread around his blog post in the XC forum. I just posted this in response, and thought I'd add it here:

One thing I see repeatedly is the assumption that dropper posts are mostly used for really steep descents. Frankly, I've never had a problem getting behind a full XC height saddle, and I doubt anyone else has, either. This probably generates a fair percentage of the ideas about them being pointless. Where mine becomes really valuable is RAISING the saddle height for seated climbing. My default position is an inch or so below full XC height. And I drop it all the way any time the trail posts down, regardless of grade or surface. I have shortish legs, and that's a big help with increasing room in the cockpit for pumping and leaning the bike.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

slapheadmofo said:


> Obviously no one on the planet rode hard until a few years ago when droppers got trendy. And of course, everyone with a dropper post now rides harder than everyone without one. And makes more money.
> 
> So stupid it hurts.


yes, the lack of reading comprehension on here can be painful, but I'm used to it.

Like someone else said, I'm sure you don't need or want disc brakes, suspension or tubeless, wide tires either. After all, we rode just as hard before any of that existed.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

dirtyBob said:


> Just bought a thompson elite dropper about 3 months ago and love it. first dropper post i've ever had after more than 20 years of mountain biking. i used to ride with my seat in the "compromise" position because i hated stopping to drop or raise my seat. i kept it a little lower than would be optimum for uphill pedaling power and high enough that i could just barely get over it when necessary, but I had a lot of seats to the nuts and hits to the stomach on those super sketchy sliding downhills over the years. i would agree with the sentiment that you don't "need" one. i would, however, highly recommend one (based on personal experience) if you are doing either or both of two things frequently:
> 1. getting air
> 2. sliding down chutes/steep faces of any sort
> 
> after a couple months of using the dropper, it's as automatic as shifting gears and i never have to take my hand off the grip to drop it before a dh. no more seats to the groin or stomach and i can raise my seat that little bit more on the up. it is truly a "cherry on top" piece of equipment.


I don't use a dropper. I really don't ride anything that tough, never-the-less I have experienced the seat to the stomach, thankfully not the groin, and I think this probably answers the OP's question best.

John


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Joules said:


> yes, the lack of reading comprehension on here can be painful, but I'm used to it.
> 
> Like someone else said, I'm sure you don't need or want disc brakes, suspension or tubeless, wide tires either. After all, we rode just as hard before any of that existed.


Personally, I rode harder. A lot harder actually, on much tougher terrain than I tend to favor now. That's probably why I don't really put much stock in running the 'latest and greatest' trendy equipment just because other people do. As far as droppers, after having one on for awhile, I just found very little use for it. Feel free to make all sorts of other baseless assumptions based on that if it makes you happy, you might even get some of them right by chance.

As I said, I think I might find use for a 1" variation for climbing versus my standard seat position, but I really don't see the type of terrain out there on XC trails very often that makes me feel the need to get way back behind my seat. Might stem from doing a bunch of old-school fall-line DHing bitd and getting fairly comfortable on steep techy stuff, but I think people tend to overestimate the need to make really extreme changes in their position for the majority of trail riding. Love to see some vids of the trails you guys are riding that you consider necessitate it though; maybe everyone is riding all sorts wild, nasty stuff on XC trails these days everywhere and need to have their ass rubbing the tire on a regular basis. I really don't see the need for it, but as they say, YMMV.


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## stunnerable (Sep 29, 2009)

I've absolutely have been caught behind my seat on steep, technical descents on trails I wasn't used to where said descent popped out of nowhere. I know I'm getting a dropper eventually. It's much more about convenience than anything else. It's just another tool for the job. 

To each their own.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

I find them useful when you want to lend your bike to a friend and aren't sure what exactly his prefered saddle height is.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Personally, I rode harder. A lot harder actually, on much tougher terrain than I tend to favor now. That's probably why I don't really put much stock in running the 'latest and greatest' trendy equipment just because other people do. As far as droppers, after having one on for awhile, I just found very little use for it. Feel free to make all sorts of other baseless assumptions based on that if it makes you happy, you might even get some of them right by chance.
> 
> As I said, I think I might find use for a 1" variation for climbing versus my standard seat position, but I really don't see the type of terrain out there on XC trails very often that makes me feel the need to get way back behind my seat. Might stem from doing a bunch of old-school fall-line DHing bitd and getting fairly comfortable on steep techy stuff, but I think people tend to overestimate the need to make really extreme changes in their position for the majority of trail riding. Love to see some vids of the trails you guys are riding that you consider necessitate it though; maybe everyone is riding all sorts wild, nasty stuff on XC trails these days everywhere and need to have their ass rubbing the tire on a regular basis. I really don't see the need for it, but as they say, YMMV.


You don't need a dropper for "ass rubbing the tire" , that is the position you are forced into because of the saddle&#8230; you need it to be low and centered like you should be riding to ride the fastest going down.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

They're needed when you don't want to accidentally smash your nuts on the back of the saddle, trying to get forward again in order to control the bike better, on a section of trail that makes you think you could use more suspension travel; a trail that also has enough pedaling sections mixed in that you don't want to wreck your knees trying to pedal them with the seatpost lowered. Also handy to have when you need to suddenly come upon a downed tree and want to bunny hop over it, gaining extra height than you would with the seatpost up in a pedal efficient height.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> but I think people tend to overestimate the need to make really extreme changes in their position for the majority of trail riding.


I would have to agree that since I went OTB, I am erring on this side of things on some descents. I also think a slower speed plays into this and when I add a little speed I am able to go over stuff rather than into stuff and have less of a need to be so far back.

John


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Obviously no one on the planet rode hard until a few years ago when droppers got trendy. And of course, everyone with a dropper post now rides harder than everyone without one. And makes more money.
> 
> So stupid it hurts.


You are right, many skilled riders can ride just as hard with or without the dropper post, because they have better skills and experiences. 



















With dropper post now less skill rider can ride harder and on the path to ride just as hard as the experience rider without spending years dreading, and intimidated by seemingly simple descend.

It's a much faster way to build confidence. What takes years to overcome the fear and develop the skills and confidence could only take a few lessons and a few months of practice.

If I'm talking to a room full of poor riders then I'll suggest that the buy a quick release and drop the saddle before technical sections or descend, raise it up after you reach the bottom.

On the other hand, if I talk to people who can afford upgrades, and wants to improve quickly then I'll just tell them to get the dropper post. The benefit outweigh the cost, weight, and maintenance.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

When pointing down 9 percent grade hills the seat must be down or very small and far forward.
Downhillers dont usually nedd to raise the seat.
But All mountain Enduro riders are likely to find good opportunities to use a dropper and if you have a lot of up and down sections back to back.


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## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

In the recreational world of mountain biking, I don't think its "needed." Its a luxury. One can just as easily stop, flip the quick release open on the seat clamp, lower the seat and retighten. It does the exact same thing dropper post would do. Having said that, its a luxury I'm not sure I can live without, now that I use one, and thats based solely on the convenience factor. Its still not a necessity unless you're in the competitive world of biking and time is an issue.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I get that for some people and certain conditions, droppers can come in handy at times, but given that the OP said where and how he rides is far from anything that would be considered AM and lacks technical ups and downs, and that he doesn't find his seat position a hindrance in any way, I'm still at a loss as to why anyone would recommend one make it onto his list of potential upgrades. My advice remains the same: keep your money, or spend it on more worthwhile upgrades.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

To me it is like clipless pedals. 
I ride flats all the time on the mountain bike (clipless on road) and I have heard many time while on rides how I am giving up efficiency and my response is always "I am keeping up with you". Usually that shuts up that conversation until later when the clipless guy gets off the bike to walk a technical down that I ride and I bring it back up asking how their clipless pedals are working for them. 

(Not saying all clipless guys are this way because I have some friends that can ride circles around me in aspects of riding with clipless. lol)


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

kjlued said:


> To me it is like clipless pedals.
> I ride flats all the time on the mountain bike (clipless on road) and I have heard many time while on rides how I am giving up efficiency and my response is always "I am keeping up with you". Usually that shuts up that conversation until later when the clipless guy gets off the bike to walk a technical down that I ride and I bring it back up asking how their clipless pedals are working for them.
> 
> (Not saying all clipless guys are this way because I have some friends that can ride circles around me in aspects of riding with clipless. lol)


Oh hells no!!!, now you've done it


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

kjlued said:


> To me it is like clipless pedals.
> I ride flats all the time on the mountain bike (clipless on road) and I have heard many time while on rides how I am giving up efficiency and my response is always "I am keeping up with you". Usually that shuts up that conversation until later when the clipless guy gets off the bike to walk a technical down that I ride and I bring it back up asking how their clipless pedals are working for them.


If that was the sort of thing I ran into on many rides, I'd find some different people to ride with.


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## Jorre (Apr 29, 2014)

I love my drop post I use it constantly when riding! 

For me Mtb is all about getting up hills in the most comfortable and efficient way possible so you are still fresh and feeling strong so you can absolutely bomb down hill and have the most fun possible. 

A drop post allows me to quickly switch between a higher more efficient riding position for climbs and a lower more easily controllable position for decent and jumps. 

For me being able to make the adjustment quickly without getting out of the saddle is worth the extra couple of pounds it adds to the bike. I really don't get how people think it makes the bike more complicated. It's one button on your handlebar! Maybe some people have had a bad first experience with a poor quality one? 

No you don't need one, but there are alot of things on my bike I don't need, and a dropper post is my absolute favourite out of all the parts I don't need!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I think I've raced more than I've ridden with groups this season.

One thing I love about racing is that the competition is right there in the open. There's no back-bitey crap about who has the right gear.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

mimi1885 said:


> View attachment 915435


Absolutely not picking on your post, but just pointing out why this thread exists. Most mountain bikers today just do whatever Nino Schurter is doing. If he isn't using one, why are they needed? People had the exact same debate as to why anyone would want 27.5" wheels until he won a race using them, and within a year the entire industry shifted to 27.5. Wait till he gets a dropper... I predict even Walmart bikes will have droppers within the year that he gets one.

And judging by those photos, they are basically just pounding their seat into their nether regions. Personally, I like my taint injury free. ;-)


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## static_x3 (Nov 16, 2011)

moefosho said:


> It blows my mind how difficult people make droppers out to be. I seem to always get the saddle right where I want it. It doesnt complicate my riding in the slightest. It has become as natural as shifting and if anything it simplifies my riding, and makes it safer.
> 
> One of my favorite riding spots is steep up followed by steep down, repeat. The dropper has completely transformed riding that trail system for me.
> 
> For $200 for my Reverb and +.75lbs, I can't complain. They are not for everyone, but I am not going back.


This guy


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> If that was the sort of thing I ran into on many rides, I'd find some different people to ride with.


Since I have a dropper on one of my bikes, maybe I am just too busy riding harder than you let it bother me. 

Seriously, I ride with different groups some times. It isn't like it is the same people I hear it from over and over again.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Thustlewhumber said:


> Absolutely not picking on your post, but just pointing out why this thread exists. Most mountain bikers today just do whatever Nino Schurter is doing.


Actually, I'm pretty sure the majority of most mountain bikers today have no f'ing idea who Nino Schurter even is, let alone give a damn what sort of seatpost he uses.


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## stunnerable (Sep 29, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure the majority of most mountain bikers today have no f'ing idea who Nino Schurter even is, let alone give a damn what sort of seatpost he uses.


I'm in that camp. Never heard of the guy until this post. lol


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

The list of items/gear/equipment that is not needed, but good to have is pretty long. This is on the list. It's also on my list of items I'd rather not do without. It has improved my "fun factor". I doubt I'll go back to a fixed length post.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I will not ride without one. I've got a Reverb and a backup Gravity Dropper. I probably move my post more than I shift. I used to ride a lot of difficult trails and seldom stopped to drop my post manually but since getting a dropper 6 or 7 years ago it has transformed my riding. Long DH with a climb at the end, rolling trail with steep up and downs, flowy berms. Just a touch of thumb and bum. Those photos of the XC pros with their saddles at full extension in the chunk. Does anyone seriously think that looks just as safe as a saddle slammed down 5"? I'm 56 and I'm not nearly as willing to get hurt as I used to. Droppers like short stems, helmets, and pads are safety equipment, not a fad.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> Droppers like short stems, helmets, and pads are safety equipment, not a fad.


Pads for XC? No thanks.

And comparing a dropper post or certain stem length to helmets as far as essential safety gear for the general mtb population is flat out silly.


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## stunnerable (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm starting to think everyone's definition of what XC really is varies drastically. I ride at least knee pads all the time. I ride knee and shin at wiss in Philadelphia every time I go due to the fact that I ride hard and it can get quite technical there.. yet, I'm astounded with how many spandex wearing, padless XC racer wannabes are out. Most people! I look like I just came off of the trails of BC and these guys look more ready for the tour de France. 

Where does one draw the line between XC and enduro/all mountain?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

They are not needed....
they are damn handy though!

If you live in the mountains or ride things that are steep, they are great. Flat trails, meh, why bother with the extra weight.

Now that I live & ride in the mountains, I have a dropper, won't go back to regular.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

stunnerable said:


> Where does one draw the line between XC and enduro/all mountain?


Mainly on the internet, and over in the marketing department.

If you're riding on the East Coast and not using a chairlift or shuttle vehicle, you're riding XC. Unless you paid someone to put a number plate on your bike for the day that says 'Enduro' on it. They I guess you're riding 'Enduro'.


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## stunnerable (Sep 29, 2009)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> That sounds more like downhill? If you're not pedaling up the mountain, you're not riding "all" of it.


My thoughts exactly!


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

That sounds more like downhill? If you're not pedaling up the mountain, you're not riding "all" of it.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> That sounds more like downhill? If you're not pedaling up the mountain, you're not riding "all" of it.


Might need to go back and re-read - I think you missed a word there...
IMO, almost without exception, if you're NOT using a lift, you're riding XC. Within XC are a bunch of ever-evolving sub-classes that are generally used for marketing, but don't really mean much if you're not actually racing in a specific event at the time.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

stunnerable said:


> ...
> Where does one draw the line between XC and enduro/all mountain?


Um... apparently clothing choice?

There is no line, there are no defined categories. Everything is marketing, marketing tells you there are buckets so you can define yourself and therefore more easily make decisions on what they're selling you. The easier your decisions the more likely it is that you'll buy something.

I'm assuming you choose to wear pads because of the chance you'll wreck and you decided that you want to protect yourself. Those "spandex wearing, padless XC racer wannabes" choose to wear spandex because it works better for them. Who's right? Everyone.


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## stunnerable (Sep 29, 2009)

zebrahum said:


> Um... apparently clothing choice?
> 
> There is no line, there are no defined categories. Everything is marketing, marketing tells you there are buckets so you can define yourself and therefore more easily make decisions on what they're selling you. The easier your decisions the more likely it is that you'll buy something.
> 
> I'm assuming you choose to wear pads because of the chance you'll wreck and you decided that you want to protect yourself. Those "spandex wearing, padless XC racer wannabes" choose to wear spandex because it works better for them. Who's right? Everyone.


I think you're spot on here.. and please, it was in no way my intention to offend anyone who wears spandex. lol It was merely an effort at humor and to further clarify my point. I was more shocked at the fact that more people don't use pads especially in a known technical riding spot. IMO, they are far more important than a dropper post. Ehh... to each their own I guess.

Sorry for the hijack guys.


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## Jorre (Apr 29, 2014)

Ill talk a dropper over pads anyway. 

Pads are only useful IF you fall, dropper is always useful


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I'll tell ya what, I'm gonna run mine for the rest of the season and make a conscious effort to use it more. Maybe I'll take it off the hardtail and put it on my 'AM'ish bike and see if it makes more sense to me that way. In theory it makes sense that it would be a handy thing, but so far, in practice, it's not doing much for me. Possibly it's the way mine operates - it's a Joplin, and has no set increments to it; hit the lever and you need to position it with your ass. If I'm hitting terrain where feel I'd like the seat to get out of the way, I'm usually not in a position that I can do any sort of fine tuning with my ass, so the seat ends up in a lower but somewhat random position based on whatever I'm bouncing around on at the time; this unpredictability has been kind of annoying to me; I'd rather the seat just stays where it is as it's pretty rare that I run into stuff that makes me really feel I need to move it out of the way. Maybe I'll beg/borrow/steal one of the ones with defined increments and give it a try.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

That's why I agree with Pinkbike's Mike Levy: the next big improvement in droppers will be one that retracts at a button push as well. I often don't drop mine until I want it gone, and sometimes that's not when I want to sit.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

evasive said:


> That's why I agree with Pinkbike's Mike Levy: the next big improvement in droppers will be one that retracts at a button push as well. I often don't drop mine until I want it gone, and sometimes that's not when I want to sit.


I think I know what I'm waiting for now.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

I ran a KS dropper on my old Epic and the XC bunnies used to laugh at me; until the next steep rooty drop off which I could actually ride down and they were stuck with the saddle way too high on the brakes the whole way down.
A lot of our trails in this region are generally a mish mash of fire roads then without warning your into rooty, rocky and steep single track, with some sections coming closer to DH courses, then back onto something more 'XC'ish all in a few Kilometres.
Dropper seat posts are very useful here however you classify yourself. I did some riding in the UK (Yorkshire Dales and Southern Scotland) with the Epic and a rigid seat post was fine there on what we were riding. The trails seemed to have more consistent terrain than they do here


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Pads for XC? No thanks.
> 
> And comparing a dropper post or certain stem length to helmets as far as essential safety gear for the general mtb population is flat out silly.


Why? A short stem or a dropper post helps prevent crashes. A helmet only helps once you are already off the bike. I'd rather stay on my bike and not break my helmet or wear out my pads. I've busted at least 4 helmets in the past but none since I went to a 50mm stem and dropper seatpost. I don't normally wear pads for milder rides but they few and far between here. I've got enough scar tissue on my knees, I don't need more.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> Why? A short stem or a dropper post helps prevent crashes. A helmet only helps once you are already off the bike. I'd rather stay on my bike and not break my helmet or wear out my pads. I've busted at least 4 helmets in the past but none since I went to a 50mm stem and dropper seatpost. I don't normally wear pads for milder rides but they few and far between here. I've got enough scar tissue on my knees, I don't need more.


I'm definitely a fan of shorter stems too, and have spent a lot of time in pads and had them pay off a million times (I've got a couple pretty pillaged Dainese shuttle suits and a really stinky bin full of other other stuff that have saved my skin over and over in the garage.) I think if the terrain/skill level/tendency to push it ratio works out to where it seems not unlikely that you might need to de-bike at some point, pads are totally worthwhile. I ran them for trail riding quite a bit bitd actually and still occasionally do. I also think they're a great idea for beginners (or anyone that likes to try to ride things they're not particularly sure they're going to clean), particularly those in places with more technical terrain in general.

But, like stem length and dropper post or not, I consider pads to be an option, and a helmet is pretty much mandatory IMO.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

When I was in college, I wore forearm guards. I've flirted with knee/shin in the past.

I've lost my taste for falling, and don't do much of it anymore. Every now and then. It's MTB. But pads are disgusting inside all the time and only protect me if I fall. I wear gloves and a helmet. The helmet because while I don't think any of my past falls would have resulted in brain injury and the odds are low, that's a pretty steep consequence. Gloves because I put a hand down in a fall relatively often and it hurts like crazy to get something embedded in there.

When I lose some skin off my hip or my elbow or something, well, it happens. I guess I just feel like for the amount of riding and amount of falling I do, wearing pads is a more negative consequence than bleeding now and then. I'm not trying to talk tough. I'm just more afraid of the discomfort, nastiness, rashes, etc.

I do see a ton of people with Go-Pros and baggy shorts and long-travel bikes at my main riding spot. Mostly on the roads. I figure they're there with a different approach to riding than me. I choose to assume they hit the descents harder and catch more air. It's always a bit of a double-take to see those guys descending on the two-way singletrack, but whatever. I could see having a different attitude about pads and full-face helmets and dropper posts and whatnot myself if I rode up with all that stuff in a pack, rested for a bit, and then put it on just for a few minutes on the way down. It's not really how I ride, though. My after-work ride on Tuesday had an elapsed time of 1:12 and a moving time of 1:10. I don't like to stop, and in a world of choice, I'd rather do my climbing on singletrack. I do get a kick out of hitting some of the flow lines on the way down, though.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure the majority of most mountain bikers today have no f'ing idea who Nino Schurter even is, let alone give a damn what sort of seatpost he uses.


LOL true. I'll try to clarify:

One MTBR XC racer sees what Nino uses, then proceeds to post nonsense on the MTBR forums about his mad skillz, which all the newbies take as gospel, which leads to crazy discussions like these spreading like wildfire.

(For the record, I have a Nino Schurter shrine built at my house so that I can learn the ways of the gumwalls...)


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I think of the dropper post as a travel limiter for your legs. What you can't absorb with your legs, you can absorb by hinging your hips. Hinging your hips to absorb bumps tends to put your weight far back, which is not the most balanced position you could be in to continue to ride fast. Down for more travel, up for less and more pedal efficiency.

As far as the XC racer perspective goes, I think it's all about overall time and positional. You might lose some time needing to slow down to make rough sections manageable, but I'd assume you lose more time and risk losing positions hauling 400g of extra weight placed high up on a bike on a race course with tough climbs in which people can pass on the climb, but not the techy portion. If you're behind someone on the techy portion, you might be forced to slow yourself to the pace of the rider in front anyways.

I also find it hard to ride without a dropper, after becoming accustomed to one, because I think the ability to use my legs as suspension and not compromise my centered position and not risk busting my nuts on my saddle (the one time I went back to a fixed saddle, this totally happened) makes it worth the cost. I just felt frustrated that I couldn't go as fast as I knew I could with the saddle up, and stopping to drop and raise the seat was too inconvenient, esp on a group ride. That said, I know it's not for everyone. It totally depends on the trail and riding style, with mine being rolling hills with a lot of up and down, additional features such as drops, jumps, high speed wide open stuff. In the forests and mountains on the East Coast (US), I don't think I really bothered to F with my seatpost, but I rode pretty slow then. If you ride a wide variety of trails with riding buddies, trying to match their pace, there should be some particular trails that make you go, "OH! Now I understand why people want dropper posts."


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## jenovachild (Aug 18, 2014)

I have a dropper seat post and to be honest I can't imagine riding with out one.

I primarily ride All Mountain with some light DH (still new to MTB riding) .. being able to adjust my seat without stopping with a simple push of a lever is amazing.

On an average day at the track I would have my seat set to it's lowest setting (basically all the way down) for probably 70% of the ride.. but when I don't feel like getting off my bike to push it up hill as it starts getting steeper I simply flick the seat up and it makes the climbs a lot easier.

Personally for me though, I can't stand having the seat at any kind of height when going down hill through technical sections of a track, it really feels like it gets in the way and it makes me feel too restricted or 'rigid' on the bike.

Luckily for me though, the bike I purchased came with the dropper seat so I didn't have to fork out the money to buy it. I'm probably biased now since I love it so much, but if you have the extra money laying around to buy one I would definitely recommend it. if you think that money could improve your ride being better spent elsewhere then that's fine too.


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## Gravityaholic (Aug 15, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure the majority of most mountain bikers today have no f'ing idea who Nino Schurter even is, let alone give a damn what sort of seatpost he uses.


Had never heard of him til now but i already find him annoying...

But nevertheless i'm convinced dropper posts are useful.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Schurter doesn't tell anyone else how to ride. He just races on what he and his team management think is his fastest available setup. Sort of like being annoyed at an NFL player for wearing a helmet.


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## Gravityaholic (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Schurter doesn't tell anyone else how to ride. He just races on what he and his team management think is his fastest available setup. Sort of like being annoyed at an NFL player for wearing a helmet.


You're right of course, it's got nothing to do with him. It's more the fact that he gets paid to use _this_ dropper post...it's the marketing aspect that annoys me.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

I can see this thread is kinda old...today 2016 almost where droppers are here I guess to stay, what is the general consent of you guys about this? would you guys change the perspective from 2014 to know? the same?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I was at a demo day yesterday and rode a bike with a dropper post that was a lot easier to use. The KS Lev Integra. I was impressed.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I was at a demo day yesterday and rode a bike with a dropper post that was a lot easier to use. The KS Lev Integra. I was impressed.


Levs are solid, Andrw. I know you have your style and it obviously works for you, but I think you might find a dropper gives you added confidence and freedom.

Will your descents be faster? Almost certainly yes, but probably by seconds, not minutes. You'll just feel a lot safer, especially when your nose is pointed steeply down.

It is difficult for me to ride without one now. Long time no talk, btw.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

A dropper adds more capability to a bike than an extra inch of suspension. I don't own one and can't afford one right now, but I have ridden bikes with droppers and I sometimes ride trails with a lot of short, steep ups & downs. The ability to place the saddle at the best position each time is nice to have. A low CoG can only help when going fast over rough terrain. 

I manually drop my saddle before entering the steeper trails in the area. For the rest, a saddle position ~1cm lower than pedalling optimum leaves me just enough room to move around. If I had a dropper it would see plenty of action though.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

I am very glad we dug this topic up, it never gets discussed on here. :madman:

Like just about any other feature on a bike, its a personal preference on whether or not they are worth their cost. Some people can't live without them, some think they aren't worth the cost. 

Is it 'needed?' Beyond tires, a drive train, a frame, and something to steer it with, nothing is 'needed' on a bike. You pay for different features that YOU want to have. People ride, have ridden, and will continue to ride just about any variation of a bicycle in just about any terrain. (Watch that dude that takes rigid road bikes down mountains. Suspension what?)

Ride what you like. Pay for what you like. Take everyone else's opinion (mine included) with a grain of salt as it is their opinion and preference.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

How would a perfect dropper post look like? what you guys expect to see in the near future? where the preference lands...more electronic, wireless into them...or something mechanical, perhaps lighter is the way to go?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

andrepsz said:


> How would a perfect dropper post look like? what you guys expect to see in the near future? where the preference lands...more electronic, wireless into them...or something mechanical, perhaps lighter is the way to go?


I really like my Thomson Covert. Back when this thread was last active, I was not convinced by droppers. I had used some on demo rides, but didn't care about them.

I think the Thomson works well. What I didn't like about the ones I had demo'd (almost all Reverbs, IIRC), was that they wobbled...a LOT. The Thomson does, ever so slightly, but not in a rotation direction like the Reverbs did.

To me, a perfect dropper utilizes a shifter-style actuation lever (I just installed a KS Southpaw and like it much better than the stock lever), works smoothly, locks into position solidly, and doesn't wobble. AND is reasonably reliable. I think reliability is where manufacturers should be focusing their efforts before they start adding crap like electronics.

The only way I will ever have a bike with tons of integrated electronics is if I can afford to have one IN ADDITION to a reliable bike with all-mechanical controls.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> How would a perfect dropper post look like? what you guys expect to see in the near future? where the preference lands...more electronic, wireless into them...or something mechanical, perhaps lighter is the way to go?


It would work.

I demoed two bikes on Sunday. On the second one, I had to get off and shove on the seatpost to retract it. I assumed it was a different post, but when I looked it up later, it was listed as the same one.

Not having them work is exactly what underwhelmed me about these things before. If I have to stop, that's an F.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

AndrwSwitch said:


> It would work.
> 
> I demoed two bikes on Sunday. On the second one, I had to get off and shove on the seatpost to retract it. I assumed it was a different post, but when I looked it up later, it was listed as the same one.
> 
> Not having them work is exactly what underwhelmed me about these things before. If I have to stop, that's an F.


You mean this happened with an electronic post?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

No. I mean I don't care. Working consistently matters to me first.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

AndrwSwitch said:


> No. I mean I don't care. Working consistently matters to me first.


Got it!


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## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

Harold said:


> I really like my Thomson Covert. Back when this thread was last active, I was not convinced by droppers. I had used some on demo rides, but didn't care about them.
> 
> I think the Thomson works well. What I didn't like about the ones I had demo'd (almost all Reverbs, IIRC), was that they wobbled...a LOT. The Thomson does, ever so slightly, but not in a rotation direction like the Reverbs did.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% on reliability being the #1 important thing moving forward on dropper innovation.

But if we are talking new and different functions, than I could see a dropper that can drop itself being a great advancement. How many times to you come into a technical section or a down hill, stand up off your seat, and then the downhill gets steeper or the tech section gets gnarlier and you think, "I really should have put my seat down, but I'm into it now and can't really execute a seat lowering squat at the moment"? Happens to me all the time. A button that would lower your seat without butt pressure would be brilliant!


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

BobbyWilliams said:


> a dropper that can drop itself being a great advancement.


Once charging batteries on the fly is solved I will welcome all this boom on electronics taking over the bike industry...until that happens I'll keep things all mechanical on Harold's club. Auto adjusting dropper would be possible with a gyroscope...post would understand if you are riding up or down and adjust accordingly...that could be interesting...our iphones are going for quite a while.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I think something that changed positions at the push of a button would be cool. I think I'd find self-adjusting disconcerting.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

*When are dropper posts "needed"?*

Ever since I started riding in the late 90s, I found dropping my seat to make a huge difference in many situations. I was wanting a remote activated hieght adjustable seatpost years before the Gravity Dropper came out, and I was one of the early adopters. Mine is now 10 years old.

I'd give up disc brakes before I'd give up a dropper post on my trail/ AM bike.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

kapusta said:


> Ever since I started riding in the late 90s, I found dropping my seat to make a huge difference in many situations. I was wanting a remote activated hieght adjustable seatpost years before the Gravity Dropper came out, and I was one of the early adopters. Mine is now 10 years old.
> 
> I'd give up disc brakes before I'd give up a dropper post on my trail/ AM bike.


Very cool. I live in San Diego California where rain is very rare and I would prob give out disc before droppers like you.

So your gravity dropper is 10 years old?!?! Well that answers my question...I believe there is absolutely no need of nothing electronic or even hydraulic tech on droppers, a good mechanical well made post does the job for a very long time.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

The nswer is "never" or "all the time". You either love it and use it nearly as much as the rear shifter or it is a "meh". The interesting aspect to me on the "meh" response is that it is either in experienced riders or exceptional highly skilled riders. The latter it seems like nothing phases them, they go fast over and down things and don't blink, they never think or need to lower saddle.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Pros:

Can get center of gravity lower while carving turns
Can more easily move weight around bike and more easily get into proper attack position on steep descents. 
Can quickly adjust proper seat height in rapid downhill / uphill transitions
Safer if you have to put a foot down in steep gnar - only way to really do this without dropper is slide forward over top tube which is an invitation to a crash
Hidden benefit: if you have to stop on steep tech uphill, start with seat down, clip one foot in, get rolling, get other foot clipped in, then raise seat up and continue on.

Cons:

Weight penalty of about a pound



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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

SDMTB'er said:


> Pros:
> 
> Can get center of gravity lower while carving turns
> Can more easily move weight around bike and more easily get into proper attack position on steep descents.
> ...


Con: Horrendously unreliable.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Con: Horrendously unreliable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Kapusta above just stated having his Gravity Dropper for 10 years?!
You are probably referring to a more updated dropper?

....conclusion is; the more complex they become, more unreliable and expensive they will be.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Con: Horrendously unreliable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


After realizing that both the dropper that impressed me and the one that didn't work are the same model, I don't think I'd put one on a XC bike.

Owning something for ten years doesn't make it reliable. I've got some Avid Elixirs I've owned five or six years that have needed a bleed with every pad change for the last three or four. I may get rid of them soon... or not.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

The Gravity Dropper is reliable, clunky, ugly, but reliable. My buddies Fox DOSS has been incredibly reliable with zero maintenance. As for skilled riders and meh, not really. This depends where and what you ride. Around here "skilled" and un-skilled use droppers. They are near ubiquitous, on the prairies they are not.


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

Last fall I picked up a Rock Shox reverb. Rode it for about two months before the snow flew and skiing took center stage. I really like mine, I'm particular about bike set up, including seat height so I would often stop and adjust several times on a ride. Now that's done with a button on the fly. It's a cool luxury to have for sure, and I'm glad we made the purchase, however it isn't a necessity, just a really nice option to have.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

RWhiz said:


> Last fall I picked up a Rock Shox reverb. Rode it for about two months before the snow flew and skiing took center stage. I really like mine, I'm particular about bike set up, including seat height so I would often stop and adjust several times on a ride. Now that's done with a button on the fly. It's a cool luxury to have for sure, and I'm glad we made the purchase, however it isn't a necessity, just a really nice option to have.


I agree on the luxury. My example is going to buy milk or quick ride on the neighborhood on flip flops...and the need to lower to saddle for that. Dropper makes this quick and easy.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Why would you need to lower the saddle to ride casually?? If anything, I feel like my saddle's too low when I hop on a bike in casual shoes...


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Why would you need to lower the saddle to ride casually?? If anything, I feel like my saddle's too low when I hop on a bike in casual shoes...


Thats just me...extra comfort, easier to hop on the bike.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Con: Horrendously unreliable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Two KS LEVs on two bikes. Ride / use them almost daily. Zero issues.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

*When are dropper posts "needed"?*



AndrwSwitch said:


> Owning something for ten years doesn't make it reliable. I've got some Avid Elixirs I've owned five or six years that have needed a bleed with every pad change for the last three or four. I may get rid of them soon... or not.


In this case it DOES mean reliable. I had an issue with first generation inner shaft after a year of ownership, got it replaced with the "new" version 9 years ago. Since then I have changed the cable two times and cleaned/re-lubed the innards three times. That is it. It is less maintenance and more trouble free than my brakes, suspension, and drivetrain. Also one of the oldest parts on my main ride.

My experience with the Gravity Dropper classic is not unusual.

To dismiss dropper posts as categorically unreliable is misinformed ( a general comment, not directed at you). The GD was the first one out over 11 years ago, and after some tweaking the first year with the inner shaft they have been very reliable.

The problem is people chasing the new shiny, sexy bits with hydraulics, infinite adjust, etc. if you want a dropper that does 99% of what really matters (go up, go down, stay where you want it, reliably) that has been available for a decade.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

SDMTB'er said:


> Two KS LEVs on two bikes. Ride / use them almost daily. Zero issues.


And there are dozens of threads about them dying, thousands of posts.

I put a lot of time, money and energy into riding my bike. I don't like rides or races ruined by a mechanically faulty product.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> And there are dozens of threads about them dying, thousands of posts.
> 
> I put a lot of time, money and energy into riding my bike. I don't like rides or races ruined by a mechanically faulty product.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Maybe you use them wrong ? Ha ha just kidding.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Here is a review of the Gravity Dropper, that's interesting because it's written by a XC weight weenie who moved to more challenging terrain.

Singletrack Magazine | Review: GravityDropper Turbo LP seatpost


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Travis Bickle said:


> As for skilled riders and meh, not really. This depends where and what you ride. Around here "skilled" and un-skilled use droppers. They are near ubiquitous, on the prairies they are not.


All just personal choice. Lots of riders around here use them, and lots don't. We all ride the same stuff; no prairies in New England.


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## JosefFritzl (Sep 17, 2009)

SDMTB'er said:


> Two KS LEVs on two bikes. Ride / use them almost daily. Zero issues.


3 yrs on mine, with the same number of issues as the standard Thomson post it replaced. Guess I should bin it because others have reported issues.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

I didn't bother reading the first four pages, because since people are still posting, the obvious answer must not have been stated. 

Dropper posts are never "needed".


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> Here is a review of the Gravity Dropper, that's interesting because it's written by a XC weight weenie who moved to more challenging terrain.
> 
> Singletrack Magazine | Review: GravityDropper Turbo LP seatpost


that was a nice short, capture the essence of the post in their review. They seemed a bit exaggerating on the return speed. The only time I have worried about it was when my post needed to be tweaked and wasn't sticking in place. The latter requires this incredibly complex (easy) process of loosening or tightening the top cap by hand. I didn't have to call customer service or send it out for a month, I just loosen or tighten top cap by hand. So you play with that for a few cycles until you find the spot you want. Until then I had some unexpected fast returns but it wasn't like getting kicked in the nads.

I agree with kptusa above, the most is reliable because it is so simple.

I have spent a full day a on a reverb at a bike park and that post was impressive. loved the more refined feel, but there is a lot more that has to go into the post to achieve that and so far no one is able to provide that level of refinement with the GD reliability.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Bottom line, things are purposely overkilled to justify higher profit margins. Go go industry!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I didn't bother reading the first four pages, because since people are still posting, the obvious answer must not have been stated.
> 
> Dropper posts are never "needed".


Neither is a mountain bike for almost all of us. Not like air or a job or regular exercise in general.

It annoys me a bit too to see people throw around words like "need." And I think it really obfuscates the question when people ask it like that. That's probably one of the reasons threads like this last so long.

Here are some other things I think "need" is a strong word for but have found worth buying:

2.3" knobbies
A bike with rear suspension
Suspension in general
Hydraulic disc brakes
"My" saddle (about four of them on different bikes)
A crank with "my" arm length and gearing
Multiple gears in general
Fenders
High-quality cycling shorts


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> And there are dozens of threads about them dying, thousands of posts.
> 
> I put a lot of time, money and energy into riding my bike. I don't like rides or races ruined by a mechanically faulty product.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Must be terrible to go thru life not trying anything new because it might fail


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ducman said:


> Must be terrible to go thru life not trying anything new because it might fail


I've owned three of them. Still own one.

They've all failed. But thanks for playing.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I've owned three of them. Still own one.
> 
> They've all failed. But thanks for playing.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


 It fail during a KOM attempt, didn't it? I can see why you are so bitter. All that work to be at the top of a internet website ruined by a seat post.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ducman said:


> It fail during a KOM attempt, didn't it? I can see why you are so bitter. All that work to be at the top of a internet website ruined by a seat post.


The last one failed 40 miles into 60 mile ride. It wasn't fun riding a bike with the seat stuck down.

The one before that failed in a race. The first one failed while pre-riding a race course.

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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

On Tuesdays. Always on Tuesdays.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

Still meh about droppers, probably because I am so tall. Plus, when I have demoed them they screwed with the way I ride and actually made setting up a line through technical stuff harder because I had to weight the seat at weird times to lower it. I can see how shorter legged riders would find them super useful, though.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

SDMTB'er said:


> Maybe you use them wrong ? Ha ha just kidding.


You might be after something there, actually.

I'd like to think the odds are against me getting three bad seatposts, from two different companies. So, maybe I am the common factor.

I want droppers to be great. I want them to work for me. I recognize their benefits. I look at them on eBay once a week or so (more after Christmas, when people offload their stuff).

I've just had a terrible experience with them thus far. And I can't explain why. I store my bikes upright, I never picked them up by the seat, never left them with the seat down.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I actually use it almost as often as I shift gears now. My girlfriend who rides maybe once a month has now got one after riding my bike with a dropper. 
Worst part is her bike has an interrupted seat tube which made finding one a PIA. 
The only issue I've had with my Reverb was after taking it in for a service. Came back with the rebound on full slow. No problem, wound the dial to fast, then it wouldn't work!
I had to order the bleed kit and bleed the lever myself. Which was annoying as the whole point of taking it to the shop is I don't have the time to do it myself.
Other than that it's been bulletproof.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Had a nice one from Giant, worked real well, never a problem. 
Was a nice training tool but I could feel the weight and worse yet It was way up high on the bike.
It was an Infinite position model, that drove me crazy,, I wanted it a tad more to the middle or a little lower, worse yet I'd go for a thigh pinch of the saddle and it was not where I thought It was. That can be a real big pucker factor at times ya know....

If I did one again It'd be the two or three locked position Gravity dropper, never an Infinite position one.
I found that l Liked the seat exactly half way down most all the time except for the long fire roads into the park. Most of my climbs are short and punchy so I stand and spin, never a problem.

I ride the bike Into the park and when I reach the single tracks I stop and drop the seat two Inches, takes a few seconds, there It stays, mostly or at least until It's time for the long double track ride out.
If I rode more technical stuff I guess It would help me more but all I noticed on the first ride after I took It off was I had less to think about and less bar clutter and no problems getting low or back on the bike.
I gave up on baggy shorts so I never get hung up, basically I'm good to go without the thing..

Other thing I noticed,, out of the Hundred or so regular fast guys I see most every weekend,, Not a single dropper post to be found..
Over and over I'd ask,, mostly the same answer, "Yeah I had one, for a while".
I rode the thing all summer then sold It two weeks after I took It off, never missed it yet, that was six months ago.

BUT In defense of the thing I found that when things get harry and I was way out on the edge of my abilities a seat at maximum height could get me Into trouble..


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> You might be after something there, actually.
> 
> I'd like to think the odds are against me getting three bad seatposts, from two different companies. So, maybe I am the common factor.
> 
> ...


Sometimes it's just plain old bad luck.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> The Gravity Dropper is reliable, clunky, ugly, but reliable. My buddies Fox DOSS has been incredibly reliable with zero maintenance. As for skilled riders and meh, not really. This depends where and what you ride. Around here "skilled" and un-skilled use droppers. They are near ubiquitous, on the prairies they are not.


I wasn't saying that all skilled riders say"meh" jut that a subset of highly skilled riders don't see a need for them.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

andrepsz said:


> Bottom line, things are purposely overkilled to justify higher profit margins. Go go industry!


I doubt that. It is a competitive industry and company are trying to make the the killer dropper post that has refined activation, perfect placement on the bar, stealth cable, continuous, beautiful to look at, and as reliable as the GD or as reliable as your good old stationary septets. If you can do this you will OWN the market over night.

Like I said above, I loved a day on the Reverb. It was so smooth, went wherever I wanted it to g, and all at the simple touch of a nearly perfectly placed switch. I love my two GDs but in all honesty the Rverb felt and looked far better. But do i want something else that will crap-out on long rides in the middle of nowhere? Or do I want to have yet another wonderful bleeding process from RS, and bunch of tiny seals to fret over? Heck no!

As much as I loved the reverb, I am sticking with GD and 10-15 minutes per year of easy DIY service. But I can see why people will put up with posts like the Reverb, when it works you absolutely love it.

One day a company will perfect the dropper, i thought it would be Thomson and it still might be, jury is out...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cjsb said:


> i thought it would be Thomson and it still might be, jury is out...


My Thomson Covert makes me happy. I've got several months on it, and it's been good to me. Smooth operation. Changed the lever, though. Stock one was okay, but interfered with my ability to rest my thumb on top of the bars on long fireroad climbs.

I see more and more droppers locally. Not everyone has one, or likely will use one. But I find it interesting because people here are notoriously slow to adopt certain new things. I'd say droppers are more common than platform pedals, to be honest. Though, locals who only ride locally tend to be the ones who do NOT own one. People who like to take mtb trips and experience a wider variety of terrain, the vast majority seem to own at least one bike with a dropper.

I generally like the infinite adjust of the Thomson. It takes a little practice getting used to putting it where I want, but I don't find that to be much of a problem. Generally moreso on new, unfamiliar trails, as I'm not always sure what to expect up ahead. In those cases, I don't use very many intermediate positions. It's often either full up or full down.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

cjsb said:


> trying to make the the killer dropper post that has refined activation, perfect placement on the bar, stealth cable, continuous, beautiful to look at, and as reliable as the GD or as reliable as your good old stationary septets. If you can do this you will OWN the market over night.


Good the hear your thoughts. 'We'....critical customers make this industry btw....bet you companies are scanning forums everyday looking for feedback's like this.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> You might be after something there, actually.
> 
> I'd like to think the odds are against me getting three bad seatposts, from two different companies. So, maybe I am the common factor.
> 
> ...


A quote from a review of the 9.8 on Mountain Flyer.

"What's important about the DropLoc system is that, even if air pressure is lost while on the trail (seals will be seals) and the post won't return to full height on its own, you can lock the post in any position and it can be manually returned to full length. In other words, if the air seal fails, it won't completely ruin your ride."

Tested: 9point8 Fall Line Dropper Post « Mountain Flyer Magazine


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