# 2016 Gemini Olympia Neutral White Version Review



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Got a new review in!

The Olympia. 2016 NW version. With Remote! You know me and round lights, but Im keeping that out of this review as I have to ignore it, performance is rather nice. Only the light head and remote, no pack but i have packs that are speced similar to theirs.

Weather has just finally started cooperating with my work schedule but havent gotten a night ride in since the group ride a few weeks ago  So video of the light on the trails is coming in a week or so. Gemini Also sent me a Duo with a remote as well. This way I can ride on a full Gemini set up.










*First Impression*

-Clean quality looking light.
-mount is actually designed to be able to twist for those guys with funky handlebars. Works good
-20awg battery cable!
-Optics are a bit odd, textured. One things bugs me, the optics arent installed symmetrically to the head when mounted. Not something that can be changed. Doesnt effect performance obviously, just one of those things with me.
-spinning the front cover off reveals proper waterproofing, no issues with getting it wet. Rained heavy the night I got the light so I was getting soaked while testing it out. As was the light. No water inside at all.
-Standard round MS style connector
-REMOTE is NICE, I really like it. designed like a normal band mount but with LARGE buttons sticking out of it. Makes mounting secure and buttons will be EASY to find with even thick gloves.
-1 Remote can control multiple lights (more on that below).
-Remote has a separate button for a "flash" for those that want to flash oncoming traffic. Though this light is NOT safe for road use as it will easily blind oncoming traffic in any mode besides the lower end.









Something I find VERY worth mentioning. Even though the optics are textured, this thing will out throw the Duo. The spot pattern is similar in size just a bit more spill. I know the guys that want lasers for helmet lights wouldnt like it but this thing does a really nice job at lighting up at range. Much better than expected. Caused me to switch Duo optics for bar use and put a gopro adapter on this to use for my helmet light.

*Details*

Output is claimed 2100 Lumens. Tested is 2072 @ 30sec (the Duo tests @ 1602)

Runtime (update this when I get time to do it and decide on most appropriate pack to use) claimed 2 hrs at max power on 5200mah 4 cell pack

Current draw:
-Low 0.9A (20%)
-Medium 1.9A (60%)
-High 2.8A (100%)

Weight:
-93g

Thermal step down works fine, take a bit to get it to activate. Does return to high once it cools enough which with a little bit of air flow doesnt take long at all. Sheds heat REALLY well. HOWEVER:

I see what the complaint is about the heavy step down. Its a bit TOO low. Suddenly down to the 20-30% output range. But from what I am seeing so far, its going to take fairly high temps combined with lower speeds (under 10mph) to get the light that hot. Or a long grueling climb trying to leave it on max the entire time which you shouldnt be doing anyway.

Not something I see being a problem for me even on the warmest nights we see here (high 80s F) since I do make sure to change modes based on speed.

The wireless remote matter:
I need to test it in the field, may be too much interference in my office area, but lights have trouble staying synced if remote is too far away. Hopefully I can get it to work ok as thats one feature that I love seeing in lights. I can mount a remote on the left side of my bars (I ride 1x10 on both fat and 29er, so nothing over there besides brake lever) and change modes on both lights at the same time depending on what output level I need.

And beam shots, low, medium and high:

Low:









Medium:









High:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Here's the output run time graph on 5200mah pack:










I was going to do a graph for a 6800mah 4cell. No point. Found something very annoying about this light. The point at which the driver just cuts power due to input voltage.

IN NO WAY DOES THIS RUN 2 HOURS on a 4 cell pack. I did it on a 5200mah pack (Samsung cells) and a 6800mah pack (Panasonic Cells), literally got 10 minutes longer before light stepped down to low output (just over 100 lumens) Not sure if this light is running a boost or buck driver (going to find out) but that is one point that is a massive failure. 6800mah pack, 1.5hrs useable run time WTF????

Going to retest on a different 6800mah pack and see where I end up.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks for the preliminary review tigris. In your beam shots what is the distance to the reflected objects, and what would you say is usable distance with the Olympia on full output? I've seen a video of yours where i commented on the throw of one of your modified helmet lights,,,, how does the Olympia match up to that?

As i have had some issues with my lights going out of sync when using my non blue tooth remote, i'm curious to get confirmation from you how the Olympia/Duo perform on the trail.

Also,, how do you find the tint? Gemini had stated the production run would have a warmer tint than was given to Cat for his review?

Finally hats off to Gemini for producing products this year that are putting out the claimed lumens!!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The reflective signs are about 250 ft. Winter and some work done by the park eliminated my marker for 300 ft. Gotta remeasure.

The hill in the second shot if about 350 ft out at the base.

It was really damp out so moisture in the air was making trying to get clear pics at range difficult.

No production light is going to match up to my modded lights for throw. 10deg optics with xp-l hi emitters, not going to beat it.

But, like the XS over the X2, I like it on the helmet better. I prefer my main lumens on the lid though with 10-15deg spot pattern. Get my needed throw from the higher output but wider, daylight type coverage (I ride mostly wooded trails so daylight under canopy of trees) from front wheel due to bar light, out to 150-200ft.

As for tint, I'm guessing the tint that Cat got with his Duo is probably more like a 2C range. Telling tint is pretty easy as the cooler the tint, the less of a natural yellow color to the light, the more it reflects off moisture and such in the air and the more the colors of objects are washed out. I'm going to do a side by side comparison with 3c/3d equipped lights to know for sure but these are looking like the saem tint. And if so, U3 bin is available which gives the higher output without needing to turn the drivers up.

I'm hoping to get to the trails I did my last video on to make the video for these (and future lights) because there is one open field section that will do a good job of showing throw. Trail is twisty through it but it's a decent open space surrounded by trees.

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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> .....
> As for tint, I'm guessing the tint that Cat got with his Duo is probably more like a 2C range. Telling tint is pretty easy as the cooler the tint, the less of a natural yellow color to the light, the more it reflects off moisture and such in the air and the more the colors of objects are washed out. I'm going to do a side by side comparison with 3c/3d equipped lights to know for sure but these are looking like the saem tint.


IME LED tint and actual tint are 2 different things. Optic design and materials have a big affect on what light color makes it out the front.

Take a 3C emitter and it makes a nice neutral white with a LEDDNA optic. Take the same emitter and mount a Ledil Iris optic and you'll see what I'm talking about, a very cool bluish beam.

This light looks like it is using a Ledil CUTE3 (or clone of). If it is the CUTE3 it will tighten up a bit if the texture is sanded off and the face polished. The CUTE3 is also available in wide, medium and narrow versions so if that is the optic Gemini used users could swap for whatever suits them best.

Really good looking remote!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Happy to finally see something on this light. I own several Gemini lights and the Olympia has always been my favorite. Looks like they did a very nice job of up-grading the Olympia. Good lumen numbers and acceptable operating temperatures (my older versions run hot and require "Vancbiker" mounts).Not surprised of your preference to run the Olympia on the helmet and Duo for the bars. My Olympias have worked well no mater what I needed them to do. What's your opinion of how the Olympia/Duo compare to each other in regards to heat tolerance? On my oolder versions the Duo would step down far sooner than the Olympia, is that still true of the new models?
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Vanc:

I will do a comparison test to check tint using the Duo since i can fit a wide array of optics.
Olympia best I can tell is a cute3 optic. What beam pattern I have NO idea. If thats the case Id love to know which optic is used in the duo because its NOT what i thought it was, which was the normal optics we use for everything. Dimensions are the same (without holders) but thats it.

Mole:
I havent done a time test on the Olympia yet and havent done a thing with the Duo besides play with it in the back yard. When I start doing tests Ill be testing the Duo as well so Ill run a time test to thermal step down and like I did with the olympia, kick the fan on and see how quickly it returns to full power. Dont want to get too off topic (nor hijack Cats thread) but the first thing that jumped out at me was the shear depth of the cooling fins on both heads.

Only gripe I have so far (remote situation is an unknown matter at this point) is the step down goes farther down that I would like. At least at that point they cool damn fast and right back to high.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> ......Olympia best I can tell is a cute3 optic. What beam pattern I have NO idea.


I have a CUTE3 SS down in the shop. That is the tightest version. I'll try to remember to dig it out tomorrow and look for any distinguishing features.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just wanted to add some thoughts to the review. I have one of the new Olympia's and am currently trying to get some time in to evaluate it. Weather in my area is not cooperating though. Coldest May that I can remember so far and the last two weeks brought a lot a rain to boot. 

I'm not going to say too much at the moment because I've only done a couple rides with it. Besides, this is Tigris's review and his evaluation of the lamp. Wouldn't be right for me to start adding too much of my own opinion when I will likely do my own review once I start getting some more riding time in. 

I will say though that the one I have "seems" to be warmer than the Duo's I have. I'm not sure though if this is because of the optics being used or if the lamp has different emitters. Like tigris,I need to do more comparisons with some of my other "neutral emitter" lamps.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

@tigris99 or @Cat-man-do

Would one of you post a picture of the bottom of the lamp with the O-ring mount removed so I can see if my GoPro adapter for the previous Olympia will still work?

TIA


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

@ cat:. Been running into same issues here, weather. Good to go here now for several days finally.

Vanc, ill get some tonight, I have your standard ms adapter on it ATM for helmet use, it fit fine. But that's the only one that does because my other versions have the hole too far back.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> @tigris99 or @Cat-man-do
> 
> Would one of you post a picture of the bottom of the lamp with the O-ring mount removed so I can see if my GoPro adapter for the previous Olympia will still work?
> 
> TIA


@Vanc....I so do hope you have a GoPro mount for the Olympia because I hate how the O-ring mount works on a lamp this size. I hope the fit is the same as the originals. Pretty much the mount is to the rear of the lamp, slightly angled ( much like some of the older Magicshines ). The power wire comes out the side of the lamp so it doesn't interfere with the mount at all. Hopefully tigris will have time to provide a photo but count me in if a GoPro mount is already available.

@tigris....Do you think you might try replacing the optic? I looked at the optic but can't figure how it comes out. If this indeed is using a user replaceable optic I would like to try something that might provide more of a confined beam pattern. Like you I am using it on the helmet ( for the moment ).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Unscrew the front (takes a bit of grip strength to do it by hand) and use a tiny pick or tip of a razor blade to careful pop the optic up. I don't think it's designed replaceable but looks just like a cute 3 based on ledil data sheet. So I'm going to order the narrowest beam pattern version and see what happens. Just for "testing" purposes as I'm personally fine with the stock optic. The little dot at range annoys the crap outta me. I enjoy looking around a corner and seeing the entire corner similar to like I would during the day instead of just where the dot is.

That said:. The hot spot of the Olympia is the same as the duo, so this may be the narrowest version, but the version of the 2 narrow optics that has more spill. So I'll get the one with the highest CD/lm (minimal spill) and see what happens.

Edit:. Having trouble finding the one I want, can find the SS for xpg sized emitters but that's it so far, otherwise it's wider beam patterns. This may be the the only narrow spot version available unless Vanc knows somewhere that has them.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok got sent home from work. The upside of being at this company for so long, I'm in the top 5 for seniority so when we have a slow spell, I'm in the first group to get offered a day off. Love it cause it's gorgeous out, all trails open and I don't take a hit to attendance.

Now my check next week isn't going to like it so much but oh well.

So I'll be taking all new lights out when the sun goes down and get some ride videos.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> @Vanc....I so do hope you have a GoPro mount for the Olympia because I hate how the O-ring mount works on a lamp this size. I hope the fit is the same as the originals.


From what tigris wrote above it sounds like Gemini may have reverted to the "old style" housing. No matter, either way I'll have an adapter to fit it.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> .......Edit:. Having trouble finding the one I want, can find the SS for xpg sized emitters but that's it so far, otherwise it's wider beam patterns. This may be the the only narrow spot version available unless Vanc knows somewhere that has them.


Don't know who may have them but this is what I think they are using.

Led lighting - Products | Ledil

The CUTE3-SS that I have on hand is for XP series emitters. No markings that I see to help identify the version. On one of the ejector pin marks there is an 8 (mold cavity?) and another has IFS on it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Vanc, only found one place that still has them. Cutter. So that will take a little while to get here.

But I think your right, I'll test it up against the xp2 since it has 10deg optics before ordering.

We do know there is a limit to spot size on a triple. And spill is going to be brighter, just nature of the beast with multiple emitters.

As for the housing, the front of the light remains round then around 10mm from the front the machined flat surface for the mount begins and goes all the way back.

Here's a pic using the ms mount on my helmet:









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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

GOT MY RIDE IN! Not where I was hoping but wife wasn't letting me be gone the whole night. So my local trail instead:

Remote sync issue DOESNT EXIST ON THE TRAILS!!! Synced beautifully. But there is a trick to it. Plug both lights in, power up with the remote. They will flash, hit the button again so they sit in low mode. While you put your helmet and gloves on (turn cameras on too in my case), just leave the lights on low.

I found for full sync they seem to want to be untouched for a minute or 2 then WORK AMAZINGLY FLAWLESS!!!!!

Now to the ride, got video (but loading will have to wait). I found my light set up confirmes:

Most power on life with flood optics on lower powered light on the bars. Like I saw when I tried the xs on the lid, trails look like daylight as far as I can get line of site. Since my trails are in wooded areas, little to no direct sunlight during the day. This mimics that quite well.

Ride summary: after loosing a short bit of time due to OTB, I still set a new personal best by .5 mph. Had I not crashed may have been closer to 1mph faster. Crash was due to section that had a massive downed tree. Section was cut to create a thru-trail off the normal line. Well one of its roots was still there and instead of being smart and going over I tried to jerk the bars and wiggle around it. Might have worked had the ground not had a hole right in the little gap. OTB I went, luckily slow, but right hip and arm are feeling it now cause they hit a sapling on the way down.

Very nice work Gemini, I'll try to get to other trails this weekend to get more video.

Also I mounted my camera that has stabilization on the fork leg, well see how that turned out, since I have 4 cameras, been starting to try new locations. I won't do helmet, too much weight. And need to find a better chest mount cause the Chinese one I have I can't figure out a good way to wear it yet.

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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You may find CUTE3 lens at Farnell -> link

AFAIK there is no difference on those lenses for XP-G or XM-L. The only difference might be the lenght of the leg tip. The difference in beam pattern is due different led size. Of course I might be wrong. 
All fits the same 35mm size PCB like this.

Hope it helps....


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I saw 2 different part numbers, what that actually matters may be nothing but everything I find for that optic only lists xpg sized emitters as useable unless I use the other part number which the shows xm-l2 

I'll grab one when I order some of the new xp-g3 emitters this week, see if there is any difference.

But what I do see, no difference really in the size of the hot spot. Slightly larger than my stuff on 10deg optics which is expected with a triple.

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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I was researching all stuff about CUTE3 lenses quite some time ago. I've found them listed for XM-L, XP-G and OSram leds, but for all the drawing in PDF was the same. The only difference was the length of the pins which goes through the PCB.

Of course there are three: SS, M and W variations. I assume you are interested only in the SS (narowest) one. I have them all and indeed SS is the most usable. Other two are to wide. At least with XM-L leds.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

ledoman said:


> .....I have them all and indeed SS is the most usable. Other two are to wide. At least with XM-L leds.


The SS is plenty wide with XPGs and the texture sanded off and re-polished. With XM-Ls it should satisfy anyone that likes a flood beam that still has some reach.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> You may find CUTE3 lens at Farnell -> link
> 
> AFAIK there is no difference on those lenses for XP-G or XM-L. The only difference might be the lenght of the leg tip. The difference in beam pattern is due different led size. Of course I might be wrong.
> All fits the same 35mm size PCB like this.
> ...


Thanks Ledo for that link. Hmmm...Looking at the optic photos, to me it looks like the Olympia is already using the SS version of the cute3. (?) The Cute3-SS ( XM ) are listing as 19 degrees. Dang it, I'd like something a bit more tighter say 15-10 degrees. I'd just like a tighter, brighter spot when using the medium setting. Anyway, I might order one of the medium optics to see if that makes the bar use any better.

Olympia with the included optic throws out a pretty wide spot. I feel about 25% of the light is wasted if you are using it as a helmet lamp. Of course on my last ride I really couldn't see an advantage to having the extra lumen. The trail I was riding was filled with twisty sections lined with high grass. Visible trail surface was only 25 ft or so at times. The Olympia begs for long open sections of trails ( no high grass lining trail ) so hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to try it out on a trail like that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, you may look datasheet for Cute3-SS and viewing angles with different leds -> http://www.ledil.com/luopdf4.php?s=54&t=992
It is obvious at same optics smaller leds produce narrower beams.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have a triple 25deg set up light, way wider than this. At least my optic. The hot spot is 10-15deg but this has a lot of spill due to the overlapping optics which of course causes less in the hot spot.

I did compare it to the duo again, the hot spot at about 10ft away is actually smaller (barely any brighter though) but only just barely.

I may just have an easier time seeing the true hot spot that others. But a full moon night I can drive in the country with my headlights off at 55mph no problem. I see rather well in the dark, always have. Just like I have to turn my dash lights way down when out in the country so I can see full range of high beams.

That's one thing that makes reviews hard, everyone's eyes and how they see the light produced is so different. Hard for one light to match what each person prefers.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Got a cute 3 SS on the way to see if there is a difference. Since it seems the emitter choice only effects beam pattern but optic should fit xm-l2 I grabbed on in the states.

Will know next week.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ....I did compare it to the duo again, the hot spot at about 10ft away is actually smaller (barely any brighter though) but only just barely...


Hard to tell differences at 10 ft. In my Duo review I took a photo of the Duo ( spot optics ) shining up at the underside of a bridge. I did the same with the Olympia but didn't have the Duo with me at the time to do an actual comparison. Still, my gut was telling me that the Duo ( at that distance ) might have had the brighter center spot. I need to confirm that though the next time I ride that same trail.

Anyway, wish I could get some more rides in but Mother nature is not cooperating. I have the next 4 days off and guess what....it's suppose to rain for the next four days.  The month of May has not been a good month this year for where I'm living. Hopefully this is not a prelude to what's coming in June. PITA when your plans for your 4 day weekend gets shot to hell. Luck of the draw I suppose, sometimes you win, some times you lose. Looks like I get to chose "option B"....time to clean the home..


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that was me up until this week. But it comes back on monday . And today with having my grandmother from Cali out to visit, being up a butt'clock in the morning to do the local autism Walk....I'm too damn tired to even think about getting on a bike today.

Going to try and get a night ride in tomorrow night though before the rains return.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK got a cute 3 ss optic in. Seems to be exact same. I could be wrong but Im not seeing any difference in any aspect.

So I do know for sure its a CUTE 3, but not going to get any narrower beam out of it as this is the narrowest option available that I can find. I have to correct my post above because part numbers are the same for xp-g and xm-l versions, but data sheets side by side I realized I was looking at wrong one when I thought there was a narrower version.

They do say 19deg but the spot itself is tighter than that. But the smooth spill to the "larger" spot I see where they get the wider pattern.

My video cameras are great at pulling out the hot spots so when I get time I will get the video loaded and go through it, see how defined the spot is at a decent distance.

But I still say this will out throw the DUO a bit (duo stock optics, gotta look up what those are) mainly due to the extra lumens.

ALso, summer like temps have moved in, will have to test during the day (nights are still in the 60s) to see how the light deals with higher outside temps. But the Im am thinking Guys like mole are going to need Vanc's mounts to get these to stay out of step down. Max power is going to require some good air flow so either more surface area or higher speeds. IIRC my cooling tube on the sphere is something like 11mph, gotta find my notes (or go through re-measuring it). Which for me is fine, im over 10mph easily if Im at max power. Some points over 20 now based on last ride I tracked. Hit 21.8mph and not even sure how, but I road the same section again, came up 21.7. This whole night riding thing has made me rather confident on my known trails. I just go lol.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You may polish out the Cute3 SS lenses in order to get more narrow beam if you like.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> You may polish out the Cute3 SS lenses in order to get more narrow beam if you like.


You mean polish the top to remove the mini dots? Is this possible without scratching the top of the lens to hell and back? Do you have a suggestion on how to best do this?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes I meant that to remove dots/dispersion layer. I'm sorry I've never done that before. I've just read about it somewhere, probably at BLF or even here. Tig might know it also.

I would say you need very fine ("water") sanding paper on flat surface and dremmel/sand it out somehow, then use polishing tools/paste and at last some cloth or something soft non abrasive. I just know it is doable.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> You mean polish the top to remove the mini dots? Is this possible without scratching the top of the lens to hell and back? Do you have a suggestion on how to best do this?


Starting at this post in the following thread has info and a pic of the CUTE3-SS that I polished off the texture.

Next bar light - Page 2- Mtbr.com

I did mine a bit differently than described by user yetibetty. I placed the wet and dry sandpaper abrasive side up on a flat surface and using plenty of water moved the optic in a figure 8 pattern over the paper. Started with 400 grit until the bumps were gone. Then switched to 800 paper to sand out the roughness left by the 400 grit then switched to 1000 or 1200 grit and repeated. Then switched to polishing with soft cloth (some old flannel) using a fast cut plastic/fiberglass liquid cleaner polish (something I had for my boat). Finished with Meguiar's M10 Plastic Polish.

About 15 minutes work as the plastic sands very quickly and easily.

Further down in the above thread another user describes and links to a video for a flame polishing process for plastic. Probably faster than what I did but I did not want to risk damaging the work I had done in joining the 2 optics together.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

For me the beam pattern is fine, but seems a tighter spot without mods isn't doable on this light.



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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

This is what I use to polish any optics I need done. All in one solution. Came with several grades of wet sand paper, polishing wheel that attaches to a drill, polishing cloths and plastic polishing fluid. Like Tigriss I like the beam pattern of my Olympia so not going to touch that optic but have done several frosted ones. I'm sure the Olympia optic would require extra "elbow grease" though.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Starting at this post in the following thread has info and a pic of the CUTE3-SS that I polished off the texture.
> 
> Next bar light - Page 2- Mtbr.com
> 
> ...


Interesting. Troutie said he first sanded with 500 grit and then did the flame polish to remove the haze. On the video it works like magic. Troutie also said that he felt as though he gained a 25% brighter hot spot ( optic using XM-L emitters ). That too is interesting because I said before that I felt about 25% of the light was being wasted by the stock optic.

At some point I may try the "flame polish" method but that would require buying some extra optics, a propane torch and some fine grit sand paper. Damn, can't help but wonder if flame polishing would work on my old car lenses.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok first run time graph for the Olympia. Most "constant" output I've ever seen from a light. This is on a 5200mah pack. I'll do a run on 6800mah pack next.










And here's the Duo graph for comparison:










Wasn't sure what I was going to think of these lights based on what Cat was posting about the Duo, but I really like them. Thermal step down is done poorly but for me it's pretty hard to get the Olympia that hot. Does really well being my temps don't get above about 80deg at night.

And though finicky at first, I'm in love with the remote system. It just works to run both lights.

I'll get the videos posts soon, just haven't gotten it edited and uploaded yet.

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK something I just picked up on. Tried to do a run time test on the olympia and something weird happened, only 10 extra minutes before step down to the low power mode thing they have going on.

Then I realized, this was being done at 90 minutes and 100 minutes, both WAY SHORT of 2 hrs. Didnt think anything of it till I went to Gemini's website. For some reason the driver just randomly kicks down at a set voltage for no reason, around 6.3v under load (3.3A at that moment).

Going to test on another pack as IM not sure if its that my cells in that pack are worn out, out of balance or the light is actually rather weird.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok did the test on a 6cell pack.










Decided to do a test on the gloworm xs. Both it an the Olympia drop regulation at the same point, below listed run time. However run time ratings are from 100% fresh battery to determine max output then run till the light output is reduced to 10% power.

Other lights gradually decrease output over the remaining runtime. The Olympia just steps down to about 100 lumens when it drops regulation.

Though I love these lights (Olympia and Duo) and I can look past the thermal step down issue as it doesn't effect me, though for those in hot climates it could be an issue. I however cannot look past the sudden, no warning (besides led on button changes color at the same time) what so ever that the light is dropping to 5% power.

That is something that seriously needs to be fixed.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Ok did the test on a 6cell pack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm confused, what color was the voltage indicator when it dropped to 5%?

I figure if it were red ( the last color? ) that would be warning enough that an auto-power down was about to happen. Some lamps also incorporate a warning strobe when a power down is eminent. Anyway, if the last color on the indicator was red ( usually the last color ) I wouldn't consider that to be a big negative. When the power dropped, judging from your graph, the circuit gives you just enough light to last another 35 minutes. I've seen lamps that drop to low and then only last 2 minutes before the cut-off. All things considered that's not too bad.

Right now I'm using a Xeccon 6-cell to power the Olympia. I was going to take a mountain bike ride last night to test out the Olympia again but when I saw some approaching storms decided at the last minute to do a road ride to test out some new road lights I have. Easier to bail on road rides than it is when back in the woods.

Luckily we ended up just having a small sprinkling of rain. Crossing my fingers and hoping that more doesn't arrive before I can get that mountain bike ride in tonight. I'm also hoping that tonight is cooler than last night. It was about 80°F and about 80% humidity when I took that road ride last night. I was fine till I got back to the house and stepped off the bike. When I stopped I felt like I was burning up.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It was red shortly before that.

But I use it on the helmet so can't see the color of the button anyway. Unless it starts flashing red I'll never notice it even on the bars. I never rely on those as who knows how well they are calibrated. So I rely on output.

This is the first light I've had that steps down that hard. Down to 5% from max output. Ya the whole thing of the indicators helps but should do that. Just let itself run down like other lights when it drops regulation. The duo has a normal response to low voltage, just diminishes output till pack cuts off. As does the XS.

It's not a negative that so bad that you need to avoid the light, but definitely need to watch it because runtimes are not as advertised by a large amount (30 minutes less) and need to try and be done with ride before it steps down to walking only option for output.

I still really like the lights but both the thermal step down and this are something I really think should be corrected. Neither really effect me personally, but I see it being a problem for those that do longer or higher temp rides.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> This is the first light I've had that steps down that hard. Down to 5% from max output. Ya the whole thing of the indicators helps but should do that. Just let itself run down like other lights when it drops regulation. The duo has a normal response to low voltage, just diminishes output till pack cuts off. As does the XS.
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


My 1st gen. Olympia and Xera used to do this with a 6000ma Geoman battery (worked fine with my 1st gen. Duo). I always figured that whatever cells they used had more voltage sag than the Gemini battery's cells had. Is it possible the battery you used in the test has the same characteristic and may not be compatible with the Olympia? When my Olympia/Xera did this there was still plenty of battery capacity left, I just had to use lower settings to access it.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I tested on Samsung 26f so almost all capacity was used. Tested on Panasonic ncr18650b pack, still cut off at exact same voltage but just lasted a bit longer first.

Couldn't switch modes once the step down happens. Have to unplug the pack then I can as long as I dont hit high mode.

Problem lies in the fact that no matter the cells used, once pack hits a set voltage, the light drops down and stays there. IMO a light should just go into un-regulated state and diminish output.

This is also why I like triples in parallel, much more stable output as voltage from an 8.4V pack never causes the light to drop regulation, just if the cells can keep feeding the current. Where as series on boost circuits increase current draw as voltage drops, increasing voltage sag.

If my Samsung 4 cell pack can't hack it, there is very few cells that will be able to as these days most cells are rated to 2.5v per cell for max capacity use. My Samsung 26F I forget the voltage cut off/max capacity usage but it's right close to 3V per cell. And charged back up was 5095mah used for the test run, light lasted 90 minutes before step down.


But as said, I like the light. Remote. Output, beam pattern. Just the way I could want a helmet light (except my issue with round light heads lol). Even knowing this issue and my riding, I'd still have it in the top few of my list of lights worth buying.
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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> I tested on Samsung 26f so almost all capacity was used. Tested on Panasonic ncr18650b pack, still cut off at exact same voltage but just lasted a bit longer first.
> 
> Couldn't switch modes once the step down happens. Have to unplug the pack then I can as long as I dont hit high mode.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree with all you said here. It would be nice if Gemini would correct this but it's obvious that at the moment Gemini Olympias perform better with certain battery cells (run-time per amp.). To glean something positive out of this was hoping you (or ledoman) might make a list of better battery cells to look for and ones to avoid for Olympia owners. I know very little about batteries or I'd do this myself but don't mind asking since I know you guys like to help.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My guess is and I'm going to talk with Gemini to find out the cells they use so I can get 4 (or one of their packs) to learn what cells they are using. This is probably part of why they go more cells for more capacity and offer and 8 cell pack.

Basically Panasonic's except the ncr18650ga cells arent a good idea. For packs, there arent many options left but as ledoman is tied up with other life matters I will do what I can.

I hate having to say a serious "down side" to an otherwise good light, but this is one time I have too. Will update once I speak with Gemini.

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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I have quite some knowledge about 18650 cells and there is one of the best test sources by HKJ -> Battery test-review 18650 comparator

So if anyone need any help or opinion I can give it a try. Also I can test some packs if needed.

About matter above if I got it right the problem is big current limitation when battery gets into some lower voltage stage. If we leave alone the electronics and concentrate on battery cells there is not much cells to avoid the problem. There are very few cells which can maintain high voltage (some Sanyo and LG for example) but those has also less capacity so the result could be more or less equal. Of course I'm talking about 18650 cells. 26650 cells has less voltage drop. So if using same number of cells, 26650 would be better. On the other hand more 18650 cells gives you same result ie. same load is shared to more cells which means higher voltage curve.
It is hard to find balanced solution between weight, capacity and voltage drop. It would take serious investigation on possibilities of different cells to mitigate the problem we have here.

Tig. it would be also nice to know what is the current and voltage (at battery and at driver terminal) when circuit drops to low. That way we would know which cells to search for. Of course if we take that path.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Amps are around 3.5A (I'll have to dig through the data again but I still have it) and voltage is around 6.3V . Right around there is when the Olympia just decided to step down from ~100% (give or take a few lumens) to 5% output. Only warning is the red light on head.

I know there are some cells that would make a 5200mah pack, but they are higher end cells so i wonder if those are used or not. I could see that being possible which would give the better run time before step down.

I seem to have this thing for finding these unexpected technical issues lol. At least I have test data to help us figure out what's going on.

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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ok, thanks. Obviously the electronics is designed to preserve cells from getting overdischarge and maintain long lifetime for the pack. Shurely using different cells in the pack this limit can be set lower as low as 5.5V.

On the other hand I think I can understand why they were doing it that way. If the driver is fully regulated (which looks it is) then when voltage of the pack drops (below of sum leds Vf) the current raises which cause even more voltage drop. Continuing with the same power output you would anyway reach the death end very soon. To avoid that exponential runaway they simply drop the output current and preserve the batteries, still drives you safely home. *To me this is correct decision if we insist on fully regulated driver* (ie. constant output power).


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> Ok first run time graph for the Olympia. Most "constant" output I've ever seen from a light. This is on a 5200mah pack. I'll do a run on 6800mah pack next.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PS. To continue my discussion. Maybe if you calculate area below the graph you may encounter you got the same amount of light out of both lights. So it is just matter in the way to distribute the same amount of energy from the battery (let alone efficiency and other small diffirencies).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ill put the XS and Olympia graph data into one graph in the next couple days. Gloworm is quite steady till about the same time but instead of a solid step down it reacts like a normal light, diminishing output.

Even if that step down wasn't so bad it would be better, the output of the olympia isn't even "safe to get home" in my book. Not for trails unless you want to walk. We're talking around 100 lumens. On the road is one thing, but not trail use. When I have to walk a climb or something I drop down to lowest settings anyway which puts it in safe zone for walking, no way I could ride my trails like that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. I agree 100 lumens is not much on the trail and can be good on the road. It depends what users designers had in their mind. Anyway not doing this step down light would just cut off (by battery pack) or get dimmed very very fast (as the current would raise very high if not limited and voltage would drop down if maintain the same output power). Design of regulated drivers just don't give you much choice (taking into account battery voltage is not constant). 

We can discuss if they would better make it more lumens and shorter runtime at that stage, but they had to do it somehow in order to regulate output. Or we can say they should use different design, but as it is, they were doing it quite right. Of course this is my opinion based on what I've seen so far in drivers area.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hi folks, I just wanted to let everyone know that I probably won't be posting up for a while. problem being that my PC has died the blue screen of death. anyway somehow I lost my boot manager so it won't boot up. maybe I might be able to have it fixed not sure yet. It's a 10 year old to learn Packard that was probably being run with XP which isn't being supported anymore. sure do hope I can get it fixed, I would hate to lose out on all of my old photos that I've taken over the last 20 years. But if I have to. Looks like I'll have to buy a new pc.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just went down that road in late winter. Luckily I was able to recover all my pics and stuff to jump drives, then built myself a new computer.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Just went down that road in late winter. Luckily I was able to recover all my pics and stuff to jump drives, then built myself a new computer.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Yep, I sure do wish mine happened in the winter! I've got too much stuff going on right now and I'm talking stuff that cost money! I've got two mechanical problems with my car that needs to be fixed and a house that needs to be cleaned. Not to mention a central air conditioner that is in bad need of a recharge. I've got too much stuff on my plate right now. I've got so many things on the back burner that I've run out of back burners!

On the upside, I got two rides in this weekend with the Olympia. The Olympia works very well as a helmet light. I had my first chance to use it on some really good straightaways and on some really fast trails. On a side note, when I was riding back to my car on a short section of road I was absolutely amazed at how bright the Olympia is when you hit the momentary Flash and hold! my God it lights up the entire Road like you wouldn't believe ! as I was riding up a Long Hill making my way back to my car I kept hoping that a car would come along with its high beams on just so I could hit that momentary High. ( lol )


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol, I guess I need to check the flash versus high. I expected it was no different but seems there may be.

I fully understand the "too much going on". I went cheap building my computer back up. Motherboard was $55 on sale with cpu that was $45, ram was another $40. Then loaded Ubuntu (Linux) so I didny have to pay for Windows. Works good so far 

Just finished a bunch of work on the minivan I bought cheap. And still needs struts and afraid a trans repair (know next weekend). May end up taking a loan out to pay for that. Or sell it as it sits now, use that money for a down payment on something aa bit newer. Dunno yet.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, I sure do wish mine happened in the winter! I've got too much stuff going on right now and I'm talking stuff that cost money! I've got two mechanical problems with my car that needs to be fixed and a house that needs to be cleaned. Not to mention a central air conditioner that is in bad need of a recharge. I've got too much stuff on my plate right now. I've got so many things on the back burner that I've run out of back burners!
> 
> *On the upside, I got two rides in this weekend* with the Olympia. The Olympia works very well as a helmet light. I had my first chance to use it on some really good straightaways and on some really fast trails. On a side note, when I was riding back to my car on a short section of road I was absolutely amazed at how bright the Olympia is when you hit the momentary Flash and hold! my God it lights up the entire Road like you wouldn't believe ! as I was riding up a Long Hill making my way back to my car I kept hoping that a car would come along with its high beams on just so I could hit that momentary High. ( lol )


Glad to hear you can still see an upside to your current situation. I spent most of my adult life having to watch every penny as a single father (primary custodian) so I feel for you. Bikes always provided me with a very cost effective form of entertainment that made me feel better and was good for my health too. I can also relate to very much liking the Olympia on my lid. Even my older less powerful Olympia always seemed to help me ride faster (and safer) than most other lights I've trie on the helmet.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Damn I need to get that video put together lol, keep forgetting (ties up my internet uploading 1080 videos).

Olympia does great on the lid, I do lile the xs a bit better for it though. Bit more throw, about same wide coverage. The trail I use for my videos lately I dont have much for longer stretches that I can see further and really get moving. Other trails have more fast flow. So not a alot more line of site, but enough the xs seems to show its slightly better throw. And it likes running on a 2 cell pack better too 

But Olympia does make a for a nice triple, no doubt.

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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Here's the output run time graph on 5200mah pack:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats a very weird and for users unwanted graph. Why did they program it that way??


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

I have a few rides on this light (cool white) and i must say it is a very nice light and the wireless remote makes it that much nicer . The cool white is a tad warmer than the previous version which is nice and it is just as bright even though mtbr tested it at 1472 ish and the 2016 tests at 2072. Any way very well done Gemini , being that i use it on the lid complimens my new X2 on the bar very well.


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