# XM-L P60 drop-ins



## CathastrophiX (Sep 28, 2008)

Available at KD now. The price is certainly better then the SST-50 ones...


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## Bicyclelist (Sep 5, 2006)

what's KD?


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## black_box (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=11096
I think? just googled it.


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## CathastrophiX (Sep 28, 2008)

Yep, it's Kaidomain


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Ordered. Will report back when it arrives (which probably won't be anytime soon).


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Is a P60 the same thing as an MTE-15 or ??? I also don't really get what an MR11 is.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Okay couldn't resist, ORDERED, been after something floody to go on my bars I suspect this will be it, place your bets on when it'll arrive I'll go for 2nd week in Jan 



P60 is a standard drop in, which fits most 26mm torches


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

gticlay said:


> Is a P60 the same thing as an MTE-15 or ??? I also don't really get what an MR11 is.


MR-11 is a 35mm platform and was the standard for halogen and HID bulbs used for most bike lights.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

So I read the specs and it says 3.7-4.2v?
My surefire uses a p60 but it's powered by two 3v batteries. Would this work?
I have a Q5 now that has 225 lumens but 1000 sounds much betta!


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## black_box (Feb 15, 2010)

the flashlight version of the XM-L from the same site uses a single 18650 cell. 6V from 2x 3V in series does not sound like a good idea. Some flashlights say they can handle two CR123A batteries or a single 18650, but they also seem to have a warning about using them on High power for more than a few minutes (I think I read that on shiningbeam.com).


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

black_box said:


> the flashlight version of the XM-L from the same site uses a single 18650 cell, which would be 3.9V fully charged.


The batteries you have linked to are not 18650, they are 14500 cells! And standard cut-off voltage for Li-ion cells is not 3.9V as specified in that KDs page, it is 4.2V.

Max voltage of 3.9V is only used with military long-life cells to prolong their life. I doubt those low cost cells from KD fall into that military grade category.


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## black_box (Feb 15, 2010)

damn, not sure what i did there, thanks. fixed


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I jumped on this as fast as I could. These will sell out fast. Damn, had no money on my green dot card. :madman: Had to run out to reload the card. Order placed. I ordered both the torch and the drop-in . As far as the torch goes I'm hoping they are using the same driver as the SF-15. Should see something in the 800+lm range. As far as the drop-in goes: I have no idea how hard it will be driven but I expect 1500ma. If so only expect about 600lm. If it draws 2000ma that would be so much better. Can only wait and see. Seeing the XM-L come out this fast has taken me by complete surprise. Thumbs up to Kaidomain! :thumbsup: 

Now comes the wait. By Christmas? Not likely.


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## desolder (Apr 8, 2008)

*overheating*

When it arrives, let us know how it works out. I would be especially interested to know how well it handles the heat. A P60 style dropin tends to have trouble with anything more powerful than an XPG, due to the relatively poor thermal path to the flashlight body. There's lots of stories of P7/MCE dropins burning out due to this, and the XML in theory will draw even more power.


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

anyone care to summarize the advantages of XM-L over P7 or give a link about it?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd quite like it to run at 1200ma like the best XP-G drop in and my MC-E P60 drop in, 2 hours of run time and more than enough light for a bar mounted solution, if not I expect I'll run it on Medium and save High for fast down sections.

Make sure you pack out the drop in to the torchs body with Alu Foil or cut up coke cans or something, if the torch body isn't getting hot then it's melting inside.

XM-L gives 20% more power.
It's a single Die so you get less artifacts in the beam / better focusing.
5mm by 5mm ( much like SST-50 )
100Lumens per watt and more efficent at higher watts compared to a P7 which just starts pumping out heat only pretty much >7watt area.
1000Lumen rating, likely at 12watt draw.

Max a battery can give is 1.6Ah's X 3.7V = 5.9Watts so best we'll get is near 600lumens, but out of a P60  I expect 450lumens at 1.2Ah still 50% more than a XP-G drop in.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Did you guys notice the blue tint on the wall shots? 

The shots on all three lights look like the same pic. I would expect the 501 and 502 to be the same since they use the same drop-in. Is the C8 a p60 host too?

Newark has had the bare emitters for a few days. Anyone tried one? My soldering skills aren't up to it, so I gotta wait on some stars.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> Max a battery can give is 1.6Ah's X 3.7V = 5.9Watts so best we'll get is near 600lumens, but out of a P60  I expect 450lumens at 1.2Ah still 50% more than a XP-G drop in.


Where do you get the 1.6Ah (which should be just amps, btw)? I've personally measured a 2.43A draw from a single 18650 in my Solarforce L2m with a Nailbender 2xXPG drop-in.

edit: I re-read my testing notes and edited amp draw number. I've also measured 2.5A at the tailcap for my single cell MC-E light.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> Max a battery can give is 1.6Ah's X 3.7V = 5.9Watts so best we'll get is near 600lumens, but out of a P60  I expect 450lumens at 1.2Ah still 50% more than a XP-G drop in.


See here Dyl

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?268549-18650-Current-draw-test

My ones can give 2.58A according to this! so id expect the blue ones to be 2.65 maybe as i get better results from them! Lower capacity mean higher discharge rate! (from same manufacturer)

Your better off comparing with MCE and P7.

P7 @ 1400 = 400 lumens but ran at 2800 = 175% = 700 lumens (not 900)
MCE @ 1400 = 430 Lumens ran at 2800 = 175% = 752.5 Lumens
XM-L @ 700 = 280 Lumens ran at 2800 = 325% = 910 Lumens

Obviously we need to take efficiencies into account. But this give a rough idea what extra brightness we can expect.

XM-L into magicshine anyone!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

p_cycle said:


> anyone care to summarize the advantages of XM-L over P7 or give a link about it?


...basically....XM-L is smaller and is using a single die. The P-7 is larger and uses 4 small dies housed within the emitter dome. The XM-L will provide more output at progressively higher current levels than the P-7. I think the hope is that the XM-L will be easier to match optics with. I'm personally hopeful that optics designed for the Cree XR-E "might" be able to be used with the XM-L ( with perhaps a little modification ). Right now a lot of this is speculation. I have suggested that it will be a lot like the SST-50 ( only a little brighter ). I have yet to hear of anyone who has a completed build yet but it shouldn't be too long.

Anyway, to learn a little more about this you might try this thread ( see link ) which was the first thread on the XM-L when it came out.



desolder said:


> When it arrives, let us know how it works out. I would be especially interested to know how well it handles the heat. A P60 style dropin tends to have trouble with anything more powerful than an XPG, due to the relatively poor thermal path to the flashlight body. There's lots of stories of P7/MCE dropins burning out due to this, and the XML in theory will draw even more power.


Yep, all too true. Since the XM-L is designed to run at higher current levels I think the emitter should be able to handle heat better. Like you said, P-60 drop-ins suck when it comes to thermal transfer ( generally speaking that is ). My gut feeling is that somewhere around 2000-2200ma should be fine with a P-60 using the XM-L. The XP-G on the other hand is a real _fire house_ when run over 1300ma. Without good heat sinking an XP-G P-60 doesn't last long at that level.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I based it on shortest run time of my P7's and MC-E's which where direct drive, maybe the internal resistance is higher on those to, 1600-1800ma works about about right to get a useable 75min run time.

I was thinking the SST-50 due to some weird start up brightness then fade down was trying to draw more though.

And you might get 2.43 for a few seconds off a fresh battery, but what are you getting 1/2 way through the battery with it left on, not starting for a quick test so the Voltage has already dropped due to the load.

Like a SST but brighter and sadly due to P60 size floodier will be ideal, if so i'll order a 2nd 1 of these and run 2 of them on my bars on Medium saving high for fast sections.

I'll have to try to get it working with the SST's smooth reflector, see if it could out throw it.

Haven't ran the SST-50 for more than a few minutes at a time yet so no idea on battery life, something to test later I guess.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

Dyl

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?257543-LiIon-18650-battery-comparison&highlight=18650

Interesting, the green plots are for 3A draw, you can see the instant drop in voltage corralating with the draw, the draw will probaly stay reasonalby high but as the voltage drops the watts to the LEd will reduce reducing the power.

There is a 2 x 18650 XM-L on Kai if you want full brightness (and a weapon)

Also see the silver 2400 Trustfire, the good one does really well!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

desolder said:


> When it arrives, let us know how it works out. I would be especially interested to know how well it handles the heat. A P60 style dropin tends to have trouble with anything more powerful than an XPG, due to the relatively poor thermal path to the flashlight body. There's lots of stories of P7/MCE dropins burning out due to this, and the XML in theory will draw even more power.


Yes, I'm quoting you a second time. Only because I wanted to address some more of these issues. My plan when I get the drop-in is to do the very best I can to "Pot" the drop-in to get the maximum amount of thermal transfer. If I'm really pleased with the output I plan on modding one of my torch host for external battery hook-up. ( 2P / 18650 ) I may even attempt to by-pass the driver, install another or go direct drive...we'll see first how things go with the standard setup.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Received my XM-L drop-in. Popped it into my Solarforce L2M with a used 18650. Whoa! Seriously bright and all flood. Did some quick ceiling bounce tests and this drop-in is brighter than my XPG-R5 lights, my MC-E light, my DX P7 bike light, and my dual XPG-R5 light. 

I realized that I need to charge up all my 18650's and get some real/accurate measurements. But, the XM-L on a used 18650 is brighter than my DX P7 (MagicShine) on a fully charged battery.

I'm not much of a tint critic, but the tint seems reasonable (not angry blue, gross green or anything).

I think this drop-in could make a great handlebar light.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

OK, I did a ceiling bounce test with a lux meter. This gives an idea of relative overall brightness (these are not lumens).

XM-L 175 
MC-E 139
MagicShine 900 5mode 133
MagicShine 900 3mode 129
Linger 2xXPG-R5 128
XPG-R5 107



The XM-L is definitely bright.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

baker said:


> OK, I did a ceiling bounce test with a lux meter. This gives an idea of relative overall brightness (these are not lumens).
> 
> XM-L 175
> MC-E 139
> ...


The only Kaidomain available, right? What kind of runtime with a single 18650? Has to be AT LEAST 1 hour..... if you haven't checked, CHECK IT.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

gticlay said:


> The only Kaidomain available, right? What kind of runtime with a single 18650? Has to be AT LEAST 1 hour..... if you haven't checked, CHECK IT.


I picked mine up at Kaidomain. Looks like there are 5 mode and single mode versions now. No clue on the runtime.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

baker said:


> I picked mine up at Kaidomain. Looks like there are 5 mode and single mode versions now. No clue on the runtime.


Not really.

They have a single cell 18650 5 mode

and

A multi cell (2 18650) 1 mode.

Exact opposite of what I want  :madman:


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Lame runtime test, because I forgot to keep an eye on the light (which is why I never do them):

At 46 minutes, going strong
At 1:12, weak
At 1:15, pretty much useless


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

baker said:


> Lame runtime test, because I forgot to keep an eye on the light (which is why I never do them):
> 
> At 46 minutes, going strong
> At 1:12, weak
> At 1:15, pretty much useless


So, P7 but brighter and same run time. Noice!


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Current measurements at the tailcap on a fresh cell (a couple minutes runtime already):

Hi 3.3A
Med 1.25A
Low 0.13A

And now, just for fun, let's look at some theoretical numbers...

The T6 is rated at 300lumens at 700ma. Looking at the specs from Cree, lumens would be 

Hi 300x3.3=990
Med 300*1.6=480
Lo 300*.15=45

Assuming 25% loss for optics and driver...
Hi ~743 lumens
Med ~360 lumens
Lo ~34 lumens

Also, take into account that the current the cell will be able to deliver will diminish over time...blah blah blah


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

So I have two options. I could buy a solarforce P-60 body from sb and a dropin from Kaidomain, OR I could buy a complete light from Kaidomain. I just want to make sure it's a P60 that I can put different dropins into later. So which one are from Kai?

Thanks!!!


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

No idea on Kai's lights. I'd be willing to be that the hosts there are p60 hosts, but not sure.

I have purchased a lotta cheap hosts over the years and I like the Solarforce one's quite a bit better than those I've received from DX (similar to Kaidomain). The Solarforce stuff is dirt cheap at lighthound.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

baker said:


> No idea on Kai's lights. I'd be willing to be that the hosts there are p60 hosts, but not sure.
> 
> I have purchased a lotta cheap hosts over the years and I like the Solarforce one's quite a bit better than those I've received from DX (similar to Kaidomain). The Solarforce stuff is dirt cheap at lighthound.


Baker, double thumbsup on your review! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I'm surprised you got yours so quick and surprised to see these being driven at 3A!. Can't wait to get mine. Can you tell us what date you placed the order?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

mines arrived keybrd i dead and oncreen ss bt yeah its bright but i expect heat dmge on high quickly looks good for medium on the bars and good run time though. definately a flood as expected


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Back to normal keyboard 

Had issues with this, the reflector to the drop in was loose and possibly a faulty switch swapped it out to another body and thought I'd try it head mounted, amazing light, really through well, no spot as such lights up a huge area and strangely I like the colour although not as blue as I generally like.

Run time was 2hours+, ordering a 2nd 1 so I can run 2 on my head!!


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