# Pimp My Klein



## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

As promised - work in progress. Graffiti Klein Attitude 1993. Yes, I used plenty of powder and a little Vaseline on the Porcs. Slid right on. Headbadge being held on with foam tape. MC1 will be painted to match . . . the seatpost is just a Kalloy placeholder. I hava 93 Black NOS XTR for it. Now all I need is a white Flite saddle . . .


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

wow, i think my eyeballs just popped out whos goona paint the bars?
what color housing you goona go with


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

hollister said:


> wow, i think my eyeballs just popped out whos goona paint the bars?
> what color housing you goona go with


Prob white cables, dunno who is going to paint. In person much brighter . . . nice unfaded neons.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Lookin' good DB. Light at the end of the tunnel. :thumbsup: Will this guy be a 'display only' model? I imagine it would.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

MrOrange said:


> Prob white cables


classy:thumbsup:


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*nope*



Rumpfy said:


> Lookin' good DB. Light at the end of the tunnel. :thumbsup: Will this guy be a 'display only' model? I imagine it would.


It's used . . . so not showroom perfect. So I'll switch out wheels and ride it once and awile. Fun for at least a few laps around the trails.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

MrOrange said:


> It's used . . . so not showroom perfect. So I'll switch out wheels and ride it once and awile. Fun for at least a few laps around the trails.


Good man. I did the same with my Goat. Swap out the white Porc's and go.


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## mello211 (Dec 25, 2005)

nice ride. cool color.

where did you get those white porcs? there was a set on fleebay just recently with a buy it now price of something like $300. did you guys see that.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*moment of weakness*



mello211 said:


> nice ride. cool color.
> 
> where did you get those white porcs? there was a set on fleebay just recently with a buy it now price of something like $300. did you guys see that.


Yes, I admit it.

Since I saw the last two sets go for 250+ . . . and generally ignored them . . . but I broke my own rule. The rule of stock rebuilds (as issued from manufacturer). I like to keep builds that way because it's "pure" . . .and usually cheaper. Exotic parts are big bucks. And just going up as time goes on.

But . . . I thought this would be a cool match up. Moment of weakness.

I DID think a long time before I hit that button. Way too much for something that retailed for what? 20.00 ea?

Can buy a whole bike for that . . . !


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## mello211 (Dec 25, 2005)

man after my owne heart. you could easily spend that in beer and tacos!


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2006)

yeah baby :thumbsup: 
it was more than overdue to see a really nice bike here again  

you don't want to know what i paid for my first set of NOS 2.35 Death Grip tires... crazy, but without them the Adroit just would not have been perfect...

can't wait to see the stem painted to match!

thanks for sharing, Carsten


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Yes, that's fabulous! Retro in all it's glory and in the coolest way too. I always loved the paint jobs on the Klein bikes from that era. Probably adds to the uniqueness of the brand in that period in addtion to the oversize tubing and the work at the tube junctions. 

Does that one have the square cross section chain stays behind the bottom bracket or was that at an earlier date?


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

alexk said:


> Does that one have the square cross section chain stays behind the bottom bracket or was that at an earlier date?


All Klein MTB's made with Gary's designs had square or square->round stays on them. It was trek that changed it. They might have stuck around for a year or two after Trek took over, but I'm not sure. Carsten?

The Attitude pictured has the square->round stays on it. I believe that these started in 1987. Before that, the Mountain Klein had all square stays. Here are some pics of the Mountain Klein:

http://www.firstflightbikes.com/MountainKlein.htm

I'm not sure of the year but the stays changed from the format that were present in the 89-93 Rascals, Attitudes, & Adroits. My 96 Attitude chainstays have what can be described as a more sculpted look, but still square->round. This might have started with the introduction of the micro-drop outs in 1994, but I can't say for sure. But the 93 & 96 have different styles of square ->round stays.

Hey, that bike is cool as cool gets (though not quite as cool as mine ), so congrats on it. Just a suggestion to Orange, be very careful who you get to paint the stem. I had some work done recently and the person didn't match the colors nor the style of the rest of the bike very well and it can be spotted at 20 paces. I spent hundreds to get work done and I'm now having to get that work entirely redone, it's that noticeable. Get it done right and by someone who you can trust to get *all *the colors to match and can match the style. That bike is too cool not to pay a little extra (ala your tires) to get it done right.

You might consider painting the cranks and bar ends (if any) in a similar style. Once you've engaged the painter to do a multi-color paint job, it's not that much to get the cranks and bar ends also done. With multi-color paint, a lot of the expense is getting the colors correct and setup, to shoot the cranks will be relativley modest and will make the bike really kick ass (IMHO).

I've included a picture of my bike and take a look at the three color fade on the bar ends & cranks. It really adds to the bike and very few people go the extra length to have it done.

I replaced the Judy fork on my bike with SID & had a local motorcycle airbrusher do the fork & bar ends (the ones that turned out horribly). I'm going back to the people who painted it originally (cyclart) and the woman who painted the fork originally is still with them. She'll be redoing the fork in a similar fashion (though possibly with the yellow going into a three color fade). I'm also having them repaint the bar ends with multi-color spots like the fork! Even though it was some thousands of bikes ago, they remember my bike well saying it was one of the more memorable ones.

Anyways, Orange, please post once you complete the bike, looking forward to seeing it.

Penguin


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2006)

...yup, the MountainKlein (85-89) had all square chain stays. the Pinnacle was the first one with square-to-round stays in 88, then the TopGun in 89. the style changed to the more sculpted ones in 1994 with the intro of Gradient tubes/Micro Dropouts/MC2.










although there are a handful of MC2 Attitudes and Adroits that have Micro dropouts and non-sculpted stays










Carsten


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## fast64 (Jun 3, 2006)

Anyone knoe how to splatter paint like that? I wouldn't mind learning


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*hmmm and more bikes*



fast64 said:


> Anyone knoe how to splatter paint like that? I wouldn't mind learning


I think it would go like this: 1. Dip brush in paint 2. move brush around in paint 3. move arm up so brush is dripping over the paint bucket 4.stand back with frame in front of you 5. Move arm up 6. Move arm down very fast with "flick wrist action"

Here are more. Pulse Zip Grip 94 with Lawwill. Adroit 94 Painted Desert


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

Carsten's Sea and Sky Klein always impresses me. I have same frame/fork and year, in excellent condtition, but in XS, which I use as a "beater" but only because it's the least precious of my rides and I don't have to worry (as much) about riding it in the rain. (I have to thank Shayne for recommending it to me)

Mr O's Adroit is pretty too; would look better with the Splatter component build though


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

You've got a lot of 'in progress' stuff. Looks like my collection only your stuff is way cleaner. 

Klein Pulse with a Leader fork...come on...I expect more of you.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

I just happened to read the bonty thread where I saw this picture posted and it mentioned a rare stem. 

Just curious as to what that stem is, an MC1 that used a conventional bar clamp? If so, why back to the convnetional MC1 posted at the beginning? So yeah, curious about this unusual MC1.

'Guin


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Klein offered*



Rumpfy said:


> You've got a lot of 'in progress' stuff. Looks like my collection only your stuff is way cleaner.
> 
> Klein Pulse with a Leader fork...come on...I expect more of you.


Klein offered the Pulse in 94 this way - Lawwill was an option. Zip Grip was recalled. Most went back to the factory and were destroyed. There are a few out there . . .


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> Carsten said:
> 
> 
> > yeah baby :thumbsup:
> ...


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Hey Mr. Orange, You have got your self quite a rare klein collection going there.
That is awesome! that is cool to have a working zipgrip, a proto-missioncontrol,
and most of all a "painted desert" adroit.
I remember when a painted desert popped up on ebay several years ago.(02)
Tim in cali got it for 1500. Did you buy that from tim? Is that the same bike?
Did it come from monterey california ?
Some people can confuse the candy red for the painted desert.
Either way, i just wanted to show some serious appreciation!!
*Very, Very* nice bike!


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> holden said:
> 
> 
> > Carsten's Sea and Sky Klein always impresses me. I have same frame/fork and year, in excellent condtition, but in XS, which I use as a "beater" but only because it's the least precious of my rides and I don't have to worry (as much) about riding it in the rain.


Biatch please! your [email protected] is better than any other bike you own!  
Unless of course its another klein


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

What is the 'rarity factor' of some paintjobs...Werent some of them several hundred dollar upcharges? Frinstance, graffitti....1/500 Kleins?
Curious
CDT


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

CdaleTony said:


> What is the 'rarity factor' of some paintjobs...Werent some of them several hundred dollar upcharges? Frinstance, graffitti....1/500 Kleins?
> Curious
> CDT


*I would pay money to know the answer to that question!*

In my opinion the rarest paint jobs are...
graffiti, mardi gras, gosamer(sp), rain forrest, coral reef
painted desert, [email protected](most common of the rare colors)
moonrise is very rare on an adroit. 
Moonrise is somewhat rare on an attitude
(moonrise more common on road bikes, adepts, rascals)

Now if i was to list the most beautifull paintjob
it would be a fight-------Gator,sunburst,horizon,[email protected],moonrise,blastberry,coral reef...


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Yuh*



jasonwa2 said:


> Hey Mr. Orange, You have got your self quite a rare klein collection going there.
> That is awesome! that is cool to have a working zipgrip, a proto-missioncontrol,
> and most of all a "painted desert" adroit.
> I remember when a painted desert popped up on ebay several years ago.(02)
> ...


That one is from Tim.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*"works"*



pinguwin said:


> I just happened to read the bonty thread where I saw this picture posted and it mentioned a rare stem.
> 
> Just curious as to what that stem is, an MC1 that used a conventional bar clamp? If so, why back to the convnetional MC1 posted at the beginning? So yeah, curious about this unusual MC1.
> 
> 'Guin


The stem with Klein carbon bar is a "works" part - ie for racing teams only. Some were used on CX also.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

jasonwa2 said:


> > P.S.. didn't you just get that stem off ebay for 350 dollars? :eekster:
> 
> 
> Now THAT would be crazy! Nope. Not me.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> MrOrange said:
> 
> 
> > Now THAT would be crazy! Nope. Not me.


for paying 350 for any mission control ?
or for a plain black 150 no-rise?

well bust out the straight-jacket....
*I will pay 350 dollars for a 120 no rise stem in any color*

not a 135mm, not a 120mm with rise,

I want a 120mm no-rise MC1...1 1/4 quill stem
Please! pretty please, with suger and whip cream on top.
I'll buy your whole bike if i need too. Just tell me how much. thanks....


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jasonwa2 said:


> for paying 350 for any mission control ?
> or for a plain black 150 no-rise?
> 
> well bust out the straight-jacket....
> ...


That level of desperate doesn't look good on you J.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> That level of desperate doesn't look good on you J.


Oh, i admit i have a problem.....

but if anyone would like to take advantage of my sickness,
i am a willing participant...

Thilo sold me two of em and i still pray for him to this day


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## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

pinguwin said:


> All Klein MTB's made with Gary's designs had square or square->round stays on them. It was trek that changed it. They might have stuck around for a year or two after Trek took over, but I'm not sure. Carsten?
> 
> The Attitude pictured has the square->round stays on it. I believe that these started in 1987. Before that, the Mountain Klein had all square stays. Here are some pics of the Mountain Klein:
> 
> ...


Thanks Penguin! I just had vague recollections from the adverts that I'd seen in MBA from that period and of course they never really showed close ups of the bottom bracket detail.


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

jasonwa2 said:


> Biatch please! your [email protected] is better than any other bike you own!


 funny


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

holden said:


> funny


Please excuse my language. That was not acceptable speech.
I got a little excited. Kleins do seem to have that affect on me.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> holden said:
> 
> 
> > Carsten's Sea and Sky Klein always impresses me. I have same frame/fork and year, in excellent condtition, but in XS, which I use as a "beater" but only because it's the least precious of my rides and I don't have to worry (as much) about riding it in the rain.
> ...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jasonwa2 said:


> > Whatchu holden anyway?
> >
> > You gotta crusty rusty ol bontrager, Fat, potts...?
> >
> ...


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

jasonwa2 said:


> > Whatchu holden anyway?
> >
> > You gotta crusty rusty ol bontrager, Fat, potts...?
> >
> ...


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## L-Train (Apr 28, 2006)

*Wow!*

You can get a complete MC1 Attitude for $100 more


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> bushpig said:
> 
> 
> > I've never seen a picture, or any other evidence, of a used Klein. Anyone have one


Here is a pic of one of my gators...
If i don't see where the cables have tried to eat thru the head tube....
I consider them brand spankin new with at least a million more miles left in them.
It doesnt matter what year they are.

I don't just ride em....I race em!
My last race was late 04. I won that race.
I won on a neon green "one inch head tube klein" like the one displayed on firstflight.
except mine has a mag21 SL. 
Probably the least of my kleins but was the one that was functioning the best on that day.
A rooty,sandy punishing norba course that called for Full suspension.
Most of the competitors were sponsored and riding new Full suspension bikes.
I whipped all their butts...

Determined to enter the singletrack first
deemed a successfull move...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jasonwa2 said:


> Here is a pic of one of my gators...
> If i don't see where the cables have tried to eat thru the head tube....
> I consider them brand spankin new with at least a million more miles left in them.
> It doesnt matter what year they are.
> ...


:thumbsup: Props for riding the piss out of your Klein.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

jasonwa2 said:


> Here is a pic of one of my gators...


That's what I like to see! Definitely not a wallhanger.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

I was just joking about the "rusty, crusty" comment....
I was just havin fun everybody.... He started it! 
I would like to own a bontrager,fat and a potts!
I really do.
Im watching that monster fat on the bay right naw!
but just like holden,
i wouldn't ride it in the rain 
or use it as a beater,

or ride it hard
or jump it 
drop it
bunny hop it 

I'd slap some road tires on there
Ride it around the neighborhood
kinda slow like...


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

jasonwa2 said:


> The reason you use the [email protected] as your beater(and in the rain)
> is because it's the only bike you got that you can actually beat on and not fall apart.


reasons: aluminum and theft resistance.

so it rains a lot here in portland, hence aluminum works well. i'm (OCD) paranoid about someone undoing a stem and taking all that control stuff: bars, shifters, levers, etc. too much bike theft here: the MC2 makes stem(+) theft impossible (even for me actually ... no tool  )

calling it a "beater" is overly self-deprecating ... i treat all my bikes well


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> holden said:
> 
> 
> > reasons: aluminum
> ...


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

*the [email protected]*

Yeah baby...

holden, all your other bikes be lookin rickitty sittin next to the [email protected]


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Some of the later linear fades I found annoying. That what the hell was it, Coy(?) paint? Bleahhh. There must be 12 shades of puce in that one.

Hats off to DB for doing that tits-est Attitude up right in the OP. I love it. I'm glad that Klein made these works of art before they as a company were neutered, not only because they were cool when they were new, but in hindsight, as an affront to all the bland, blase, timid, puss-bag bikes we see day in and day out. I'm glad that bright paint gets peoples in a huff and makes them question its impact on their sexuality if they look too long. They carried the finest aluminum bike technology, and the finest craftsmanship around, and they looked the part doing it. Over the top was the name of the game. How many earth-tone Potts's or Ritcheys can we look at before we know what they look like, and don't have to look at them anymore? Hm.

I'm glad to see some left in NOS condition. How many of you Ham owners go out and flog the hell out of your Indians on a daily basis? Not really a beater bike, is it? No, it's not. It's aluminum, with a finite fatigue life like a fuse on dynamite. At this point, I'm glad some people have the foresight to preserve, and not succumb to this "all bikes have to be riders" BS. I have a wine collection in my cellar. Do I have to regularly uncork bottles, drink from them, and recork them to justify keeping them, or is my enjoyment from owning them knowing that at any time, I COULD open one & taste it enough? Restraint isn't entirely without merit.

wtf am I still doing up? Do you have any idea what time it is? Or how much I've had to drink? Seriously.

They look great, everybody.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2006)

Master Shake said:


> I'm glad to see some left in NOS condition. .... At this point, I'm glad some people have the foresight to preserve, and not succumb to this "all bikes have to be riders" BS.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

thanks, carsten


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Master Shake said:


> I have a wine collection in my cellar. Do I have to regularly uncork bottles, drink from them, and recork them to justify keeping them, or is my enjoyment from owning them knowing that at any time, I COULD open one & taste it enough?


Don't wines have a shelf life?  
I'm not sure I understand having a great collection of wine if you never get to taste it...and after all that, the stuff misses it's peak and goes bad after 'x' amount of time.

I'm not anti-NOS. I'm all for it.

So perhaps I should say...for me personally, if I'm going to spend the money and time on a bike, I want to be able to use it at least a little bit. Even if it means putting street slicks on it and pedaling round the neighborhood.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Don't wines have a shelf life?


I'm not talking about wines that come in a box... 

Mountain bikes don't have a shelf life. If you don't ride em, they stay new.

If you really want to ride one, get a used one too, and ride that. Then you'll know exactly what it rides like, and you can still own one that's perfect, pure & virginal.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> I'm glad to see some left in NOS condition...flog the hell out of your Indians on a daily basis? Not really a beater bike, is it?


I have mixed feelings about this. I have one NOS Attitude and another one that is pretty close to perfect. I don't know if I'll ride these bikes or not. I'm sure I'll never beat them to death.

I have plenty of bikes that I can ride on a daily basis so it doesn't hurt if these bikes are ridden or not. I can always ride them tomorrow, should I choose to do so. I'm going to build them up retro, after that we'll see. I figure it's a better than even chance they will be 'garage queens'.

It is kind of nice to be able to go somewhere and see an original condition car from the 50's or other such doo-dad. In some ways, I'd rather have a bike with slightly beaten up paint than a perfect repaint. Once it's not original, you might as paint it with polka-dots (like one Klein owner I know very well did ). Anyways, it's nice to have this type of thread, VRC isn't simply about parts.

'Guin


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> Some of the later linear fades I found annoying. That what the hell was it, Coy(?) paint? Bleahhh. There must be 12 shades of puce in that one.
> 
> Hats off to DB for doing that tits-est Attitude up right in the OP. I love it. I'm glad that Klein made these works of art before they as a company were neutered, not only because they were cool when they were new, but in hindsight, as an affront to all the bland, blase, timid, puss-bag bikes we see day in and day out. I'm glad that bright paint gets peoples in a huff and makes them question its impact on their sexuality if they look too long. They carried the finest aluminum bike technology, and the finest craftsmanship around, and they looked the part doing it. Over the top was the name of the game. How many earth-tone Potts's or Ritcheys can we look at before we know what they look like, and don't have to look at them anymore? Hm.
> 
> ...


Nice words Master shake. pretty good post written while up late and drinking 
"You betta back off my NOS sucka"

I am curious of the "coy" and which one you were referring too.
Are you referring to the dark green that turns purple-ish in the light?
That's "chameleon" if it is. 
It's horrible by camera! but attactive to many.
another thing..personal question. What was your handle before mastershake?
Please, no need to answer if it is not widely known. Just curious.

Also, can you clarify your position for me on this? Not to be abrasive, but these two statements do seem contradictory to me. I just want to understand you better.
I have an opinion i would like to share but i would like to understand your position first.


> It's aluminum, with a finite fatigue life like a fuse on dynamite.





> Mountain bikes don't have a shelf life. If you don't ride em, they stay new.


Here's my chameleon with my neon green"one inch" chillin in the back.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Hey J,
The coy was the (coi?) paint job that went from a light red, to an orange, to a yellowy sort of orange. Somehow, that particular finish seemed to make the frames look cheap to me, and drove me nuts. But yes, it looks a bit better in real life than in graphics, similar to the chameleon. No previous handle, total noob!  I swear it!

As for:
Quote:
It's aluminum, with a finite fatigue life like a fuse on dynamite.
Quote:
Mountain bikes don't have a shelf life. If you don't ride em, they stay new.

I meant, using an aluminum bike as an everyday all-around rider, it's inevitable that at some point, you will use it up. Even with a stellar design, the material itself will not last forever. Every ride is another mm burning down the fuse on that stick of dynamite. It's long, that stick, but it's not infinite.
However, if one does not use their bike, it remains as new... well, sort of. The only things that change are the continual air-hardening of the metal, the continual shrinking of the paint, and the drying out of the plastic & rubber bits.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Master Shake said:


> If you really want to ride one, get a used one too, and ride that. Then you'll know exactly what it rides like, and you can still own one that's perfect, pure & virginal.


Which is why I have two JTR's. 

Not box wine...jug wine.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> Hey J,
> The coy was the (coi?) paint job that went from a light red, to an orange, to a yellowy sort of orange. Somehow, that particular finish seemed to make the frames look cheap to me, and drove me nuts. But yes, it looks a bit better in real life than in graphics, similar to the chameleon. No previous handle, total noob!  I swear it!
> 
> As for:
> ...


I think Ive posted this before, but I like it because it blows up all the myths and hype (that 99% of all shop rats proclaim and hence becomes cycling gospel) surrounding frame materials and what their individual traits are. This goes to show that its much more the builder and not the material that determines longevity and also ride quality:

http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

If you dont want to read it, both aluminum and carbon frames outlasted two titanium bikes including a Merlin and easily outlasted the steel bikes. And another big ouch is that the Cannondale outlasted the Klein by a long shot! Sorry Klein hounds.  Of course to be more accurate you'd need a larger sample, but still, this test says something.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This goes to show that its much more the builder and not the material that determines longevity and also ride quality


True!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Hmmm. I thought it went right along with this: 

"As for:
Quote:
It's aluminum, with a finite fatigue life like a fuse on dynamite.
Quote:
Mountain bikes don't have a shelf life. If you don't ride em, they stay new.

I meant, using an aluminum bike as an everyday all-around rider, it's inevitable that at some point, you will use it up. Even with a stellar design, the material itself will not last forever. Every ride is another mm burning down the fuse on that stick of dynamite. It's long, that stick, but it's not infinite."

And whats this about you not having a former user name!!??  I remember your former user name saying something about titanium having this infinite life span.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Hmmm. I thought it went right along with this:
> 
> "As for:
> Quote:
> ...





Fillet-brazed said:


> I remember your former user name saying something about titanium having this infinite life span.


Ti does have an infinite fatigue life, and when it's designed properly to utilize that, it will. However, early ti frames were not designed to last forever. They were designed to be affordable. This means, they were made with what was available at the time. Using straight gauge tubing, thick plate dropouts, excessive welding, and not a lot of experience, etc... it was simple materials substitution, which is usually the way new things are introduced, but always full of compromises. Now we have custom drawn ti tubing, dropouts & BB shells that aren't so overbuilt that they transfer all the load straight into the welds, and much more refined welding techniques. Ti can finally begin to utilize its great fatigue life capabilities. Except, the weight weenies want to keep making things lighter, pushing designers to ride that dangerous line...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

"Ti does have an infinite fatigue life, and when it's designed properly to utilize that, it will. "

yeah, but I think you could take any material and design it to have an infinite lifespan.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> Master Shake said:
> 
> 
> > Hey J,
> ...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I think Ive posted this before, but I like it because it blows up all the myths and hype (that 99% of all shop rats proclaim and hence becomes cycling gospel) surrounding frame materials and what their individual traits are. This goes to show that its much more the builder and not the material that determines longevity and also ride quality:
> 
> http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm
> 
> If you dont want to read it, both aluminum and carbon frames outlasted two titanium bikes including a Merlin and easily outlasted the steel bikes. And another big ouch is that the Cannondale outlasted the Klein by a long shot! Sorry Klein hounds.  Of course to be more accurate you'd need a larger sample, but still, this test says something.


You should change your handle to Alumilover or Aluminium Brazed.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> You should change your handle to Alumilover or Aluminium Brazed.




Nah, Im not biased either way. Ive ridden great riding bikes made from aluminum and steel. I do have to admit, Im not much of a Klein fan though.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> The coy was the (coi?) paint job that went from a light red, to an orange, to a yellowy sort of orange.


Just to pick a nit, I believe it was 'koi'. A koi is like a goldfish with orange yellow bits to it, so I think the Klein graphic designer sat and stared out the window and couldn't come up with any ideas and suddenly looked in his fish tank and said, "Ah hah!"

Penguin


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## Petey the Greek. (Sep 9, 2006)

That's it, Koi! The big, ugly, bottom feeding fish. Of course. Single-handedly ruined linear fades for me. After that, all I ever wanted to see were Gator and Moonrise.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Petey the Greek. said:


> That's it, Koi! The big, ugly, bottom feeding fish.


Yep, a glorified carp.

Anyone for a friday night fish fry?

'Guin

P.S. Don't know if the rest of the country does this, but in these parts Friday fish fry's are very popular. Get yourself some walleye...good fish. Even better eatin' than koi.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> pinguwin said:
> 
> 
> > Just to pick a nit, I believe it was 'koi'.
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2006)

jasonwa2 said:


> > edit... In 96(i believe) they did call the same paint "Koi" but it wasnt "overloaded" at the time.
> > I might be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Oog. (Sep 9, 2006)

I missed that J. The sunburst/backfire was actually one of my favorite finishes of all time.

I stand by everything else I said before someone found it disagreeable, erased it and had me kissing FB's ass instead.

1. Not that it's relevant, but titanium as a material is capable, when designed properly, of sustaining an infinite fatigue life. Aluminum isn't. What you do with the material is most important, but even with the best design & engineering in the world, every time you ride it, it's a little bit closer to the end of its life. That's all I was trying to say. If you want to think you could make alumium have an infinite fatigue life, look up "infinite fatigue life".

2. We know you don't dig Kleins, FB. Similarly, I remain unimpressed over Cunningham frames, but I won't go over and start bad mouthing them on the Ham forum.

3. That study quoted is a farce. One test sample provides no usable data. It's like asking for a range defined by a point. You're guessing. You need minimum two points to even theoretically have a low & a high. The more test samples you use, the more accurate your findings will be. There are so many variable that go into building every frame, that test, run again, would generate different results, guaranteed. Anyone who has ever had to test mass-production frames knows that testing a frame model properly takes months. Anyway, none of this is relevant to the topic at hand, whatever that was.

Sunburst:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Klein-Attitude-K...3QQihZ010QQcategoryZ30746QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

> Oog. said:
> 
> 
> > I missed that J. The sunburst/backfire was actually one of my favorite finishes of all time.
> ...


The bike you are lusting after is not the sunburst.
It is the beautifull Moonrise.


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

My contribution to the beautifull [email protected]


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

*Klein projects for the winter*

I just bought two 19" Attitudes from eBay for my winter projects.

The first one is a '92 with Horizon Linear Fade and will be equipped with full XTR M900 parts spec.

The second one is a '93 MC1 model with '94 Sea & Sky paintjob & stickers. So it must be made during the changing of the model year. The paint has quite some scratches in it. Does anyboby know the paint color codes for the S&S colors or does Klein offer patch-up paints ?

This bike has XTR M900 drivetrain, TNT cranks with onZa rings, Nuke Proof carbon hubs, Ringle Ti skewers, ...




I had bought NOS '97 Adroit and '95 Pulse frames for my projects but decided to part them. Pulse has been already sold and Adroit will probably follow soon to the same direction (Germany).


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## BigDutch (Sep 28, 2006)

Any chance you could let me know how / where you intend to sell the Adroit frame? I REALLY want this so I can get it built up for the spring exactly like the one I lost. You can reply here, private message me (I think, I'm new to this) or email: [email protected].

Thanks!


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

*eBay*

If I were you, I'd check out the German eBay www.ebay.de ! The item number is 130042783480. Can't put the straight link here for that might be considered selling/marketing the item here.
The auction texts are in English so there won't be any problems in understanding the descriptions


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