# Foes Mutz



## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi everybody,

I've always been a Foes fan since i rode a Weasel from a friend in the past...

Is there someone who could talk about this frame ? Who has tried one ??
Is the fat /full suspension bike a nice combo ?
Impressions for who's already have a fat ?......
I never tried one (fat bike), i'm intersted by those fat tires.....:thumbsup:

Steve, from France


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Riderofbikes (Oct 1, 2007)

pit said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I've always been a Foes fan since i rode a Weasel from a friend in the past...
> 
> ...


Hey Steve,

Check out this link. Foes Fat Update | Likin' Bikin' News

I've been riding the Foes Mutz for a while and would be happy to answer any questions. Feel free to message me anytime.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Riderofbikes said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> Check out this link. Foes Fat Update | Likin' Bikin' News
> 
> I've been riding the Foes Mutz for a while and would be happy to answer any questions. Feel free to message me anytime.


Hi "Riderofbikes", 
I've send you a private message


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

:band:


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Mine is ordered......


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Colors offered by Foes are awesome :thumbsup:


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## ahtune69 (Jun 3, 2007)

What color did you order?


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## ban'd4life (Feb 13, 2007)

delete..


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

ahtune69 said:


> What color did you order?


Neon green


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)




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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

what can I expect to spend on one?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

wadedro said:


> what can I expect to spend on one?


Sorry for my bad english,
You mean the price of the frame ?


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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

yes, frame price, correct.

ahhh, it's so sexy can't stop looking at it


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

wadedro said:


> yes, frame price, correct.
> 
> ahhh, it's so sexy can't stop looking at it


Me too...heheheeee....
In France it will cost close to 2900 euros with color option and DB Inline shock.....pricey for me, but i really think that i pay for premium quality frame, still hand-made in USA and that will last à long time


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

....and, most of all, it's been 20 years since i wanted to offer myself à Foes. At the end of january i'll be 40, i like mtb, à dream will come True for me......


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## MountainCycler (Sep 22, 2005)

That looks a bit better . . .


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## Evil Sylvain (Oct 5, 2005)

specs:
Foes Mutz | Fatbike By Foes Racing USA | Foes Racing


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Review of the Mutz on Singletracks.com.... :thumbsup:

Final Review: Foes Mutz Full Suspension Fat Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Who has the Foes Mutz in stock to buy?


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## MountainCycler (Sep 22, 2005)

There is one on ebay

Likin' Bikin

Timberline Bikes


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Here is my Mutz live and in the flesh.. Picked her up Tuesday.


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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

ohhhhhh gosh, it's RAD. what size are you and the frame? I saw there is a frame on ebay right now. drool................. and you've got the right tires on it. ahhhhhhhh wonder if I can fit a medium.


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## Look Out Below (Apr 28, 2011)

pit said:


> Neon green


I just ordered this same frame in large, it's to be delivered on the 19th, I have all the parts to build her up.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

wadedro said:


> ohhhhhh gosh, it's RAD. what size are you and the frame? I saw there is a frame on ebay right now. drool................. and you've got the right tires on it. ahhhhhhhh wonder if I can fit a medium.


The frame is a L. I am 5'11 is that helps. I am border M to L with the Mutz frame.

Hope this helps!


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## wadedro (Feb 15, 2012)

JasonSauce said:


> The frame is a L. I am 5'11 is that helps. I am border M to L with the Mutz frame.
> 
> Hope this helps!


yes, thanks, that does help. 5'10 here and i'm always borderline M-L on bikes, but usually end up going L with a shorter stem and my monkey arms. did you have to order it from one of the US dealers? and they shipped it direct to your home?


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

pit said:


> :band:
> 
> View attachment 953489


Hi, may I know what color is this?


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

Timberline Cycles ? Your Local Source For Custom-made Mountain Bikes

Foes Mutz $3999 level 1 build kit
$4999 level 2
$5999 level 3


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

matt45 said:


> Timberline Cycles ? Your Local Source For Custom-made Mountain Bikes
> 
> Foes Mutz $3999 level 1 build kit
> $4999 level 2
> $5999 level 3


Yea, you can do all kinds of stuff to the frame, it's pretty cool. Glad that shop is only an hour away.. Makes it easier.


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

Is anyone planning on running their Mutz as a snow bike with a change of tires or wheels and tires?


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Is anyone planning on running their Mutz as a snow bike with a change of tires or wheels and tires?


I think I am at the sweet spot for a "year around" fattie with FS. I think the only thing I could do is grab some carbon rims, build those tubeless, keep my marge lites and add tubes for winter riding. I am enjoying these 45NRTH VH atm. Summer time I plan to ride these tires everywhere I go..


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Is anyone planning on running their Mutz as a snow bike with a change of tires or wheels and tires?


for spring/summer/autumn seasons, I have a pair of vanhelga's that I will mount tubeless. But for winter time, I try to go a bit wider and hopefully 45nrth's new twin beists will fit on 80mm rims.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> for spring/summer/autumn seasons, I have a pair of vanhelga's that I will mount tubeless. But for winter time, I try to go a bit wider and hopefully 45nrth's new twin beists will fit on 80mm rims.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


I plan this for a "year around" bike. I am running the marge lites with the 45NRTH VH's. I just took them out a few days ago in the snow, and they seemed just fine. I do want to grab some carbon rims and run those tubless for summer. I am running these VH's tubless right now. My LBS had an idea with the marge lites and a smaller tire for summer riding. I kind of want to ride this setup for all the seasons I can and see how I like it, or dislike it.

J


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

I have both 65mm and 80mm carbon rims available to test with the Vanhelgas but first i need to manage to order one and know the delivery-time....

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> I have both 65mm and 80mm carbon rims available to test with the Vanhelgas but first i need to manage to order one and know the delivery-time....
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


Very happy with my purchase. Glad I went this route tbh.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Very happy with my purchase. Glad I went this route tbh.


I hope to finally have answers tomorrow so i can order.

Btw, does the seattube allow for dropper-post with internal cabling (reverb stealth or thomson covert dropper.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

HDTVdevil said:


> I hope to finally have answers tomorrow so i can order.
> 
> Btw, does the seattube allow for dropper-post with internal cabling (reverb stealth or thomson covert dropper.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


Yes the frame supports a covert dropper. I might be able to answer other questions you have. My frame went to paint today.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Yes the frame supports a covert dropper. I might be able to answer other questions you have. My frame went to paint today.


I think i can move most parts from my current fathike except seatpost (time to go for a dropper) and fork to this frame.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Ordered my Mutz yesterday.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


> Ordered my Mutz yesterday.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


:thumbsup:
Size ? 
Color ?


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> :thumbsup:
> Size ?
> Color ?


XL in "candy red over silver"

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> XL in "candy red over silver"
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


Nice. The frames look super good. What's the eta on the delivery?

FireKatN4 V7. Burnin Love


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Nice. The frames look super good. What's the eta on the delivery?
> 
> FireKatN4 V7. Burnin Love


Seems it will be around 5 weeks, so first half of April wzould be my optimistic guess.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Yes the frame supports a covert dropper. I might be able to answer other questions you have. My frame went to paint today.


What's the max rotor size for the rear? The Bluto for is 200mm i think.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

For the other models, they have usermanuals in PDF on the site. Anyonr have the PDF for the MUTZ?

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Yes the frame supports a covert dropper. I might be able to answer other questions you have. My frame went to paint today.


Rear brake use IS mounts?

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

I believe the rear is a post mount. Probably designed around a 6 or 7" rotor


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> I believe the rear is a post mount. Probably designed around a 6 or 7" rotor


Planning to use Hope 185mm (don't think 203mm ill be needed) rotors, so no isues as i had assumed.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Is FOES also recommending 65mm rims like Salsa does for the Bucksaw or what are their rim/tire size recommendations?


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

HDTVdevil said:


> Is FOES also recommending 65mm rims like Salsa does for the Bucksaw or what are their rim/tire size recommendations?


65mm for summer riding and 80 for snow. Tire choice is entirely up to you but some good recommendations are 45NRTH Vanhelgas or Husker Dus or Surly Nates or Knards.

I will be running Helgas on Marge Lites (or on Whisky carbon rims if I can find the $ for them!!)


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Got some 65mm carbon rims and a pair of vanhelgas... so i should start lacing before the frame arrives...

When are you expecting yours?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

My frame arrived yesterday, i'll post some pics soon......
Most beautiful frame i've ever owned for sure


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> My frame arrived yesterday, i'll post some pics soon......
> Most beautiful frame i've ever owned for sure


They would try to finish my before the end of the month... so just a little bit more


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Some pics of my new Mutz frame :thumbsup:]


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

pit said:


> Some pics of my new Mutz frame :thumbsup:]


That color is pretty darn nice!

Enjoy her!


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

JasonSauce said:


> That color is pretty darn nice!
> 
> Enjoy her!


Thanks !!!!


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> Some pics of my new Mutz frame ]


Clearly a proud new owner 

Can't wait to receive mine.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


> Clearly a proud new owner
> 
> Can't wait to receive mine.


Exactly !!!
Welds are beautiful, details like the CNC machined bottom bracket or the hydroformed down tube reveal Foes trademark 
First Foes i've ever owned (certainly the first Mutz in France), a dream comes true......


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> Exactly !!!
> Welds are beautiful, details like the CNC machined bottom bracket or the hydroformed down tube reveal Foes trademark
> First Foes i've ever owned (certainly the first Mutz in France), a dream comes true......


I assume mine will be one of the first if not the first in Belgium. .


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

When is the maiden ride?


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Which workstands are you using for your Mutz? The classic clamp-style like the ParkTool PCS-10 don't look suitable at first looks


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Which workstands are you using for your Mutz? The classic clamp-style like the ParkTool PCS-10 don't look suitable at first looks


I have the pcs-10. It was the only one recommended. It's highly universal. If you have a work bench then obviously that may be the better option.

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

pit said:


> Some pics of my new Mutz frame :thumbsup:]


A Mutz from Switzerland!


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

matt45 said:


> View attachment 977780
> 
> 
> A Mutz from Switzerland!


:band: with this green bluto


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## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

That green fork iz the shiz ! Did Foes powder coat the fork for you ? I just ordered the Candy Green over Silver Mutz and may want to do the fork after seeing how bad ass yours looks.


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## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

It looks like the Candy Green over Silver from their website. I just ordered one.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

With the rear shock cutting the front triangle in two, is there space for a bottle cage?


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## Look Out Below (Apr 28, 2011)

I just finished building my Mutz, I love the painted shock and no there isn't any place for a cage.


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

Look Out Below said:


> I just finished building my Mutz, I love the painted shock and no there isn't any place for a cage.


Beauty! What color is it?


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## Look Out Below (Apr 28, 2011)

Neon Green


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

What inverted fork it that??


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Look Out Below said:


> I just finished building my Mutz, I love the painted shock and no there isn't any place for a cage.


I am digging that color more and more. Have we build sheet by chance?


Exiger77 said:


> What inverted fork it that??


I am curious as well.

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Anyone have any regrets buying the Mutz? Thinking maybe a 26 or a 29'r might be better?


FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

I would love to know what tire / rim combo's folks are running on their Mutz's.
Should that that be a new thread ? has anyone considered 27.5 plus sized tires ?


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

railntrail said:


> I would love to know what tire / rim combo's folks are running on their Mutz's.
> Should that that be a new thread ? has anyone considered 27.5 plus sized tires ?


65mm Marge lites. Vanhelgas. There are a few 26x3 I have considered.

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## Look Out Below (Apr 28, 2011)

Exiger77 said:


> What inverted fork it that??


Maverick SC32 I have a couple of them


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## Look Out Below (Apr 28, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Anyone have any regrets buying the Mutz? Thinking maybe a 26 or a 29'r might be better?
> 
> FK v11 typed with fat finger love


Not one bit I built this back in 2010 and put over 7,000 hard miles on her.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/another-full-suspension-phatty-757352.html


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Look Out Below said:


> Not one bit I built this back in 2010 and put over 7,000 hard miles on her.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/another-full-suspension-phatty-757352.html


I don't really have regrets I guess. Just my weight plus the bike I think is playing affect in my ability to climb on it. I think a lighter bike would be suit me I guess.

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> I don't really have regrets I guess. Just my weight plus the bike I think is playing affect in my ability to climb on it. I think a lighter bike would be suit me I guess.
> 
> FK v11 typed with fat finger love


Together with my current ride (XL sized Mukluk), i probably am around 115kg. Comparing with the group (all are lighter and ride regular mtbs) I go riding with weekly, it is clearly not affecting me at all. Most of the offroad climbs i simply have better traction ... No idea on the weight difference until my Mutz finally arrives but I doubt it will affect much.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Together with my current ride (XL sized Mukluk), i probably am around 115kg. Comparing with the group (all are lighter and ride regular mtbs) I go riding with weekly, it is clearly not affecting me at all. Most of the offroad climbs i simply have better traction ... No idea on the weight difference until my Mutz finally arrives but I doubt it will affect much.


Fair enough. Maybe it's just in my head. Probably just need more cardio and stronger legs to make those climbs. I do run my rear in climb position when I climb. I'm actually running around 15 or 16 psi is both tires. So I get minimal Bob when I climb.

I'm running a 1x front crank. I do notice I have the traction. I wouldn't mind trying a skinnier tire in the same frame to see how I do personally. I definitely curious to see if there is any difference in your ride when you get the mutz in hand.

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Fair enough. Maybe it's just in my head. Probably just need more cardio and stronger legs to make those climbs. I do run my rear in climb position when I climb. I'm actually running around 15 or 16 psi is both tires. So I get minimal Bob when I climb.
> 
> I'm running a 1x front crank. I do notice I have the traction. I wouldn't mind trying a skinnier tire in the same frame to see how I do personally. I definitely curious to see if there is any difference in your ride when you get the mutz in hand.
> 
> FK v11 typed with fat finger love


I will let you know (i can compare timings on the climbs using garmin connect)... with some luck it ships still this week.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> I will let you know (i can compare timings on the climbs using garmin connect)... with some luck it ships still this week.


That would be awesome. What components you plan on running?

My riding weight is 108kg.

J

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> That would be awesome. What components you plan on running?
> 
> My riding weight is 108kg.
> 
> ...


Xx1 gears and raceface crank, hope v4 breaks and a thomson dropper. Vanhelga's to deliver traction. Except for the dropper, same as the mukluk ... all will be transferred.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Xx1 gears and raceface crank, hope v4 breaks and a thomson dropper. Vanhelga's to deliver traction. Except for the dropper, same as the mukluk ... all will be transferred.


Ah ok. What sort of terrain do you ride?

FK v11 typed with fat finger love


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Ah ok. What sort of terrain do you ride?
> 
> FK v11 typed with fat finger love


Most if the trails closeby are through the forest or open fields. For a more challenging ride, i go to luxemburg where i a few gpx tracks that are really challenging (70km, 2500hm is the "easy" one).


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Most if the trails closeby are through the forest or open fields. For a more challenging ride, i go to luxemburg where i a few gpx tracks that are really challenging (70km, 2500hm is the "easy" one).


ah ok. You shouldn't have any issues then keeping up. I really haven't ran in to an issue on flat surfaces keeping up. Just unable to keep up during climbs.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> ah ok. You shouldn't have any issues then keeping up. I really haven't ran in to an issue on flat surfaces keeping up. Just unable to keep up during climbs.


Local trails are 400 to 500hm only but sometimes a nasty climb. It is more my friends trying to keep up with me


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Local trails are 400 to 500hm only but sometimes a nasty climb. It is more my friends trying to keep up with me


ahh. Keep us up to date on your frame status


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> ahh. Keep us up to date on your frame status


My patience is running thin... 4 to 5 weeks delivery indicated when ordering while 6 have past already


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

HDTVdevil said:


> My patience is running thin... 4 to 5 weeks delivery indicated when ordering while 6 have past already


Hang in there, it's worth the wait. I got quoted 2 weeks delivery on mine but it arrived in close to 5. I ordered my frame directly from Foes in person


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

Our dealer is receiving 11 pcs soon. Shipping this week! Can't wait..


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


> My patience is running thin... 4 to 5 weeks delivery indicated when ordering while 6 have past already


I had to wait 7 weeks, nearly 8, until mine finally arrived.....:madman:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just got my Mutz frame, but it's a large and I'm more of a medium guy, so it's going back to get.a shrink ray treatment.

So, for folks who wonder whether a fat bike is the right choice for your riding pleasure, I think you need to ask a different question:

What riding will you do with the Mutz that you can't do as easily or with as much joy on your current bike(s)?

I've got an FS 29er for climbing and all day epics, I've got a tandem for riding with my bride, what I want the Mutz for is crud and mud, steam rolling junk, flying down crazy trails with abandon without having to worry about ruts and baby heads.

I wouldn't have a fat bike assay only bike, fortunately I have a very understanding wife


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> I had to wait 7 weeks, nearly 8, until mine finally arrived.....:madman:


Most frustrating is the lack of information. Neither Foes and even less the french reseller are providing much status updates


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

*Mutz in the wild*


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Looks nice.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

RockShox needs to come out with a Pike Fat fork, which would be far better suited to the rough terrain that the mutz is capable of handling.....

If a fat pike does come out this fall, I will probably sell my fat bike and my SC Heckler, and just ride the Mutz for all XC, trail, fat uses, even race it enduro. It would be a perfect match with my new FXR I got yesterday.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JCHKeys said:


> RockShox needs to come out with a Pike Fat fork, which would be far better suited to the rough terrain that the mutz is capable of handling.....
> 
> If a fat pike does come out this fall, I will probably sell my fat bike and my SC Heckler, and just ride the Mutz for all XC, trail, fat uses, even race it enduro. It would be a perfect match with my new FXR I got yesterday.


I use my mukluk for all riding and will use my Mutz (when arrives) for everything including the more tricky downhill single-track where I need to brake a lot on my mukluk (only front susp. and no dropper).


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> I use my mukluk for all riding and will use my Mutz (when arrives) for everything including the more tricky downhill single-track where I need to brake a lot on my mukluk (only front susp. and no dropper).


I think once you really get to see what the Mutz can do, you will probably put the Mukluk away until winter time.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> I think once you really get to see what the Mutz can do, you will probably put the Mukluk away until winter time.


Chances are it will be Mutz for the winter too. Will depend if 45NRTH's "beists" pair will fit and if not, how VanHelga's behave in snow.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Chances are it will be Mutz for the winter too. Will depend if 45NRTH's "beists" pair will fit and if not, how VanHelga's behave in snow.


I rode mine a few times in the winter. Plowed right through some nasty stuff. Just adjusted my shocks to he super stiff or "locked out" which they truly aren't anyway. I am curious to know how your carbon wheels ride on the mutz also 

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Hey Steve,

The Mutz is a big deal. I ride mine for 3 month now all other California and not in the snow. I have the Stan's Hugo 52mm and run at 9.5 psi. It handle really good, is not bouncy and corner's crazy. The Rockshox Bluto is a little bit stiff but it you have the RL Damper it's ok. Since I got it I don't want ride my spe Enduro anymore. Too bad you are not in the Area I have 2 of them for demo.
By the way I'm from Bordeaux.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Crazy Bear said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> The Mutz is a big deal. I ride mine for 3 month now all other California and not in the snow. I have the Stan's Hugo 52mm and run at 9.5 psi. It handle really good, is not bouncy and corner's crazy. The Rockshox Bluto is a little bit stiff but it you have the RL Damper it's ok. Since I got it I don't want ride my spe Enduro anymore. Too bad you are not in the Area I have 2 of them for demo.
> By the way I'm from Bordeaux.


I heard about people replacing the damper of the bluto with the rct3 one. Unfortunately, i am not familiar enough with suspension fork internals to risk the replacement.


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

Our local dealer just got in these awesome frames! Colour galore, be forewarned! 
https://m.facebook.com/gravityracing.sg?ref=m_notif&notif_t=feed_comment_reply


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Crazy Bear said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> The Mutz is a big deal. I ride mine for 3 month now all other California and not in the snow. I have the Stan's Hugo 52mm and run at 9.5 psi. It handle really good, is not bouncy and corner's crazy. The Rockshox Bluto is a little bit stiff but it you have the RL Damper it's ok. Since I got it I don't want ride my spe Enduro anymore. Too bad you are not in the Area I have 2 of them for demo.
> By the way I'm from Bordeaux.


Heheheeeee.....
Hi Crazy Bear,
Nice to see that someone put Hugo 52 on the Mutz, i think i'll do the same, but i still don't know which hub i'll choose....hope fatsno probably, easy to service and not very expensive, durable too i think.
I won't be very far from you between the 04/27 and 05/06, i will have to work around Anglet, Biarritz and Bayonne.....unfortunately without my Mutz :madman: wheels, tires, cranks and brakes still to buy.....
Maybe we'll meet in south of France one day......:cornut:

Cheers,

Steve


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

The Hope are a really good choice. Now I leave in Los Angeles so it's pretty fare but if pass by here let me know. I always have an extra Mutz ready to roll.


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Yes I screwed up the rct3 is the one to get, the RL is not good for this bike. Your shop should be able to do it.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Is the seat tube angle on the Mutz really 70deg ?


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

yes it is.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for the confirmation.


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

How does the Mutz performed so far? Anyone has experience to share? What's your bike weight?


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Exiger77 said:


> How does the Mutz performed so far? Anyone has experience to share? What's your bike weight?


I am interested as well although I will know soon... It is on its way (sometime this it should arrive at the French reseller and probably early next week in my hands).


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Exiger77 said:


> How does the Mutz performed so far? Anyone has experience to share? What's your bike weight?


I've owned my Mutz for close to 3 months now. Have had the chance to try out everything from mud, snow, rock gardens, lose rock climbs. What specifically are you asking in terms of performance? The bike is more than capable of doing what you ask of it.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Mine was the 1st on the west coast (the orange one from Foes web site) I upgraded the components and now it's down to 32 lbs. I got it for fun but after a few rides it became my main bike. I take it for epic rides in the desert, fast DH trails or XC rides. I'm not into Strava but use it for my business. I got PR on climb and DH on all my rides since the Mutz. The traction is ridiculous, I can clear steep climbs that I couldn't before. It jumps good it's poppy and the landing is always plush. I can go on and on for hours saying how great it is but it's like trying to explain how sex is good to a virgin. You have to try one.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Crazy Bear said:


> Mine was the 1st on the west coast (the orange one from Foes web site) I upgraded the components and now it's down to 32 lbs. I got it for fun but after a few rides it became my main bike. I take it for epic rides in the desert, fast DH trails or XC rides. I'm not into Strava but use it for my business. I got PR on climb and DH on all my rides since the Mutz. The traction is ridiculous, I can clear steep climbs that I couldn't before. It jumps good it's poppy and the landing is always plush. I can go on and on for hours saying how great it is but it's like trying to explain how sex is good to a virgin. You have to try one.


I'm currently just over 35 lbs. What did you change to get down to 32? Wheel set and tires? If so, which are you running?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

I have the Hugo rims on Hope Fatsno . Hope E4 race and floating rotors. Race Face Next SL crank, Renthal Apex stem and Crank Brothers Iodine 11 handlebars.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Crazy Bear said:


> I have the Hugo rims on Hope Fatsno . Hope E4 race and floating rotors. Race Face Next SL crank, Renthal Apex stem and Crank Brothers Iodine 11 handlebars.


What tires are you running on the 52's?

J


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

I have the 45north VanHelga


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Crazy Bear said:


> I have the 45north VanHelga


Ah ok sweet. How do you feel in steep climbs? Feel sluggish?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Not at all I run 9 psi the tire perform pretty good. The only down side is that, as I use my bike as an Enduro, the rims that are not made for this bent on rocks if I don't monitor my tire pressure and let it go to low. They are easy to bent back though, Stan's told me that there is a new generation of Hugos stronger. I got a set but I didn't try them yet.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Crazy Bear said:


> Not at all I run 9 psi the tire perform pretty good. The only down side is that, as I use my bike as an Enduro, the rims that are not made for this bent on rocks if I don't monitor my tire pressure and let it go to low. They are easy to bent back though, Stan's told me that there is a new generation of Hugos stronger. I got a set but I didn't try them yet.


 Very interesting. I'm trying to find an option for lighter wheel set for a heavier rider like myself. I found out I could shave close to 2 lbs by keeping the marge lites, and getting a smaller tire.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

JasonSauce said:


> Very interesting. I'm trying to find an option for lighter wheel set for a heavier rider like myself. I found out I could shave close to 2 lbs by keeping the marge lites, and getting a smaller tire.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


Have you tried Husker Du's? I switched my VH's for HuDus but haven't had a chance to ride on them yet


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

Rolling In Peace said:


> Have you tried Husker Du's? I switched my VH's for HuDus but haven't had a chance to ride on them yet


Not yet. I had the chance to try some Dirt Wizards. They felt pretty good on the marge lites.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi Crazy Bear,

Do you have pic of the combo VH/hugo 52 ?

They seem to have fun with the Mutz in Italy....
Watch this : https://www.facebook...05524562865694/
:cornut:


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

pit said:


> Hi Crazy Bear,
> 
> Do you have pic of the combo VH/hugo 52 ?
> 
> ...


link isn't loading for me... copy and pasted correctly?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Sorry.....



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205524562865694


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> Sorry.....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205524562865694


Thanks to FedEx , I need to wait until next week for mine ....


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

pit said:


> Sorry.....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205524562865694


that looked super fun!



HDTVdevil said:


> Thanks to FedEx , I need to wait until next week for mine ....


Dang, at least you know it's coming though!


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


> Thanks to FedEx , I need to wait until next week for mine ....


:thumbsup:


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

Rolling In Peace said:


>


*Frame: *Mutz neon green medium (5' 10", 31" inseam)
*Headset:* CC 40
*Fork: *RockShox Bluto 120mm 
*Shock: *CC DBInline
*Bar: *Easton Havoc Carbon 35 780mm
*Stem: *Easton Havoc 35 50mm
*Grips:* ODI Rogue
*Brakes: *Shimano Zee
*Shifters:* SRAM X01
*Ders: *(Rear) SRAM X01
*Cassette: *SRAM X01 11-speed
*Crankset: *e13 28T M Direct mount
*Wheelset: *(Front/Rear) Hope Fatsno hubs and Marge Lite rims
*Tires:* (Front/Rear) 45NRTH Husker Du
*Seatpost:* KS Integra stealth dropper
*Saddle: *Chromag Trailmaster LTD
*Pedals: *Shimano Saint platform


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

......I think we won't regret when we'll have them built !!!


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

My frame finally arrived


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Photos !!!


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> My frame finally arrived


Pictures 



pit said:


> Photos !!!


Yes!^^

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Here is a video of my Mutz in the desert of Pam Springs.
https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

XL size in CandyRed 

Now the assembly


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


> XL size in CandyRed
> 
> Now the assembly


Looks nice !!!


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

HDTVdevil said:


> L size in CandyRed
> 
> Now the assembly


I'm glad that it finally arrived. Don't forget to post a photo after it is built along with the build sheet


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Nice!


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Rolling In Peace said:


> I'm glad that it finally arrived. Don't forget to post a photo after it is built along with the build sheet


Build can only start Sunday afternoon as my wife planned things for the weekend leaving me not enough time to finish before Sunday morning (our weekly ride) . Old bike is donor for some parts (brakes, gears, crankset), so I can start after the ride.


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> Build can only start Sunday afternoon as my wife planned things for the weekend leaving me not enough time to finish before Sunday morning (our weekly ride) . Old bike is donor for some parts (brakes, gears, crankset), so I can start after the ride.


All good man. Keep us posted. Definitely want to see if up and running. 

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

How much travel do they set the rear shock at by default? 5 or 5.5"


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## JasonSauce (Jan 30, 2015)

HDTVdevil said:


> How much travel do they set the rear shock at by default? 5 or 5.5"


Which rear shock did you get?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

JasonSauce said:


> Which rear shock did you get?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


I got the DBinline but I now read that it seems to have a max weight... Not working well with air pressure set higher that 200psi. I will see the first rides and if needed, swap it out.


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

Here it's 5 in the bottom hole


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Well, I've been riding my Mutz for a month now, so I figured I should finally post it up here. So far I've had it on the Slickrock Trail in Moab, some singletrack & urban trails around Colorado Springs, and some fun singletrack in Salida. What an awesome ride!


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)




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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

HDTVdevil said:


>


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
First ride feeling ????


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

First ride was more to tune air pressures in shock and tired. But after 100km on it, I can say it rides fantastic.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Let us know your feeling when you'll have ride it more !!!


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

How is yours coming along?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Weel, the money was used for the purposes of more priority things these last monthes....:cryin:
Next week i'll order my new set of wheels i hope :arf:


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

pit said:


> Weel, the money was used for the purposes of more priority things these last monthes....:cryin:
> Next week i'll order my new set of wheels i hope :arf:


Yeah, that can happen. Luckily I could transfer most from my old fatbike. Just need re-lace the nextie rims on Tune hubs to loose a bit of weight on the wheels. Running on a pair of Jackalopes for now.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Wow, dig all those colors!

I got the stock red, was just droppling over it lunch, heading to my LBS to order the rest of the parts today.

Compared to my other bikes and my "typical" cockpit layout, these frames run long. I'm 6'/32" inseam, I ride mediums in a Honzo, Atlas, KHS 6500, Lurch, etc... and I went with a medium Mutz. The TT is a good inch longer than my medium Atlas Carbon.

*Anyone try 29+ in this frame yet??*



Exiger77 said:


> Our local dealer just got in these awesome frames! Colour galore, be forewarned!
> https://m.facebook.com/gravityracing.sg?ref=m_notif¬if_t=feed_comment_reply


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## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

*Coming together&#8230;.*





















My King headset showed up yesterday so time to start assembling&#8230;27.5 x3.5 Fat be Nimbles are on the way. Hoping to ride this Baby by the end of next week. :drumroll::drumroll:


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice !!!
I've just order the same rims but in 26 inches.....let us see How it'll look like with tire clearance in 27,5 ;-)


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## AZMB'er (Oct 19, 2013)

railntrail said:


> View attachment 992252
> View attachment 992253
> View attachment 992254
> 
> ...


You may already know this but there have been some denting issues with 1st gen Hugo's. Supposedly solved with 2nd gen wheels although few, if any actual experiences reported. 2nd gen wheels are 110-120 g heavier but hard to tell the difference without weighing. Lots of info here http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/stans-hugo-27-5-x-52mm-rims-960271.html and here http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/notubes-hugo-52mm-rim-921705.html from page 4 and on.

Good luck with your build! Love the Mutz!!

update: I believe all 1st gen Hugo's are suspect as the design is the same.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm building up a second set of wheels for my Jefe Tandem, 29+ Dirt Wizards on WTB Scrapers and Onyx Racing hubs, got the rear wheel done and threw it on the Mutz.

The tire fits, but just barely, leaves 5-6mm at 20psi at the seat and BB bridges. Supposedly the DW is a low profile 29+ tire, so anything taller would not be rideable. 

As it sits, the 29+ DW is usable on the Mutz in dry conditions only.

I'll be running 27+ once I get the Mutz finished.

I called Foes and asked about getting a longer swingarm and I asked if they had plans to modify the swingarm for 29+, but they said no 

Sorry, no pics, for some reason I can't upload them from this computer...


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Here is my Mutz:


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

^^Beautiful^^
I'm trying very hard to not buy one of these.


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

pplucena said:


> View attachment 994747
> View attachment 994746
> View attachment 994749
> Here is my Mutz:


Very cool photos. The raw frame looks great


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Thanks.More photos coming:


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I have the FXR 275 in raw and love it, everyone at the bike park comes over to look at the bare aluminum. That Mutz is awesome. You are inspiring me to get rid of my Santa Cruz Heckler and pick up a Mutz and my every day trail bike....


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

*Built one week ago, tuned up and ready*


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Nefariousd said:


> View attachment 995850


Raw AND naked.....nice look'n Mutz!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I posted this over on the FS Fatty Compare thread:

Got my Mutz built over the weekend, everything went together fine (no weirdness), running 650 x 3.25 Trax Fatty on Scrapers, 120 Bluto, Cane Creek in line set in "high position".

This bike is a winner.

No bob when pedaling uphill; climbs better than my Atlas, no weave when pedaling slow uphill, and it just plain slays it on the down.

Granted, its still a lot of bike compared to an xc bike, but it's a whole lot more fun.

How does it compare to the BS, well, i don't want anyone to get their hackles up, but suffice to say, I am very glad i waited

I havent ridden a Khan, I'm sure its a fine bike, but I am satisfied now...though a beefy fork would be nice.

Me: 6', 195, 32" inseam, long arms, average torso length.
Current bikes: Atlas 29 fs medium, El Gran Jefe fat tandem lrg, Taro 29 med, Honzo 29 med (sold), khs 6500 med/lrg (sold), Lurch fat bike med, 650b/29"/36" munis.

Med Mutz, Red
120 Bluto, 110psi, two volume spacers 
Cane Creek in line, 100psi
Race Face 170 Cinch, 26/36
Scrapers, Onyx Racing Hubs, Trax Fatty 650 x 3.25 tube less, 11-40 (Wolf + 16t)
TRP Spyke brakes, Speed Dial levers
X Fusion hilo dropper post, wtb volt seat
Mag pedals
Kore bar and stem, ergo grips
34.5#

Update: Did some suspension tweaking last night while out riding, ended up dropping the fork pressure and shock pressure to make the ride more supple. I coudl see bumping pressures up or down depending on the terrain.

It's a great bike, so much fun to ride, I can't really see any downsides. The bike rides short, the chainstay lengths are not an issue, it climbs great but it also manuals easilly.

Just one post build pic:


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

Does anyone have a reaction to the MBA review of the mutz? They claim that the bike prefers slow speeds. More concerning for me is their conclusion that it will make a poor rider faster and a good rider slower. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Stu Pidassle said:


> Does anyone have a reaction to the MBA review of the mutz? They claim that the bike prefers slow speeds. More concerning for me is their conclusion that it will make a poor rider faster and a good rider slower.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


I don't agree on the slow speed part. I only have my previous fatbike to compare with but I am definitely going faster than before.... Unless I would fall in their 'poor rider' category. But since I already have several top-10 times on some local strava segments (single-tracks), not that poor either.

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

HDTVdevil said:


> I don't agree on the slow speed part. I only have my previous fatbike to compare with but I am definitely going faster than before.... Unless I would fall in their 'poor rider' category. But since I already have several top-10 times on some local strava segments (single-tracks), not that poor either.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


Thanks, the conclusions seemed odd to me given my current fat bike and the other feedback on the mutz. Probably another example of MBA not liking anything that is not produced by specialized.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Stu Pidassle said:


> Thanks, the conclusions seemed odd to me given my current fat bike and the other feedback on the mutz. Probably another example of MBA not liking anything that is not produced by specialized.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Both uphill and downhill, I am faster than my riding buddies who have skinny tires in 26" and 29" (all hardtails though). On flat paved, they have gears advantage (triples with 54:11 vs my 32:10 xx1)

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Stu Pidassle said:


> Does anyone have a reaction to the MBA review of the mutz? They claim that the bike prefers slow speeds. More concerning for me is their conclusion that it will make a poor rider faster and a good rider slower.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


I was a little bummed: My frame was in the mail when I read the article, imagine my chagrin having just spent a grip on the frame, shock, etc.

Frame came and I built it up apprehensively, hoping I hadn't done a bad thing.

During my first ride I decided I won't be subscribing to MBA.

You know what they say about opinions.

Those guys aren't me and apparently have an entirely different personal definition of having fun.

This is not me trying to make myself feel better for having spent big loot on a two wheeled tractor.

I'm well aware of what it is and isn't and happen to be having fun.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Well, I must also be one of those poor riders made faster, cuz my skinny riding buddies don't seem to keep up with me when I'm bombing. Damn, I was gonna buy that issue of MBA....should I save my money?(I am a Mutz owner afterall, and every cent helps! lol)


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

CRWLN said:


> Damn, I was gonna buy that issue of MBA....should I save my money?(I am a Mutz owner afterall, and every cent helps! lol)


The pictures are nice


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks guys, you have restored my dream. Until I read that article, I beleived the mutz was the love child of my kona satori and my hardtail fat bike. The perfect combo of fun and trail shredding capability. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Gonna try my 35mm gopro mount on mine this weekend, maybe I will have some trail shredding or downhill blasting to share

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

Foes Mutz by Monkeyhead-cycles from Switzerland
14.40 kg! :thumbsup:


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## slowrider (May 15, 2004)

*Monster bike*



matt45 said:


> Foes Mutz by Monkeyhead-cycles from Switzerland
> 14.40 kg! :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 996820
> ...


Looks fantastic, one was for sale locally for $3k built but it was far too large, which is good for my wallet because I would have jumped on it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ummm, it's a bike, bikes roll, to say a bike has a speed preference suggests the reviewer either didn't have experience riding a fat bike or the bike was not properly set up. Their conclusion, "that it will make a poor rider faster and a good rider slower." is outright silliness.

If anything, fat tires and a slack HA will increase downhill stability, so a bike like the Mutz is faster downhill in certain situations than other bikes. At the same time, a Mutz is not going to keep up with an XC bike on a straight, flat, level surface. Apples and oranges.

In terms of how does the Mutz compare to other bikes of it's kind? Probably very similar, kind alike comparing similar bikes in other classes. I have limited time on a Bucksaw, but what I notice most in comparing the two bikes is that the Mutz climbs better (longer CS), has a higher "profile" (120 vs 100mm suspension), and is more playful (Foes design?).

I think it's important to evaluate what you want from a bike and pick the class that maximizes your needs.

In my case, since I'm running the Mutz as a 650b+, I could have gotten by or even done better with a dedicated B+ FS rig, BUT, the Mutz is also my winter bike, so I want to run fat tires too.

My conclusion is that fat bikes have a higher fun factor than a typical mtb, not sure if that extra cush from the fat tires, the gnarly sounding buzz of the tires, or the feel I get from mowing down small children  Fat bikes are not about efficiency any more than buying a lifted dually diesel is about increasing gas mileage.

Oh, and the Mutz is a friggin fantastic bike 



Stu Pidassle said:


> Does anyone have a reaction to the MBA review of the mutz? They claim that the bike prefers slow speeds. More concerning for me is their conclusion that it will make a poor rider faster and a good rider slower.
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

How many links do you guys add to the chain to account for the suspension. I have 2 broken KMC chains (at full 116 links length) in 6 weeks.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

I haven't added any. I have a 32 in front, 42 WT, goat link, 1051 chain (114 link), xt long cage. Still have quite a bit of slack in the cage at full compression. I'm using full travel on landings.

I was told by Timberline I would probably have to add some so I 
bought two chains, but when I was setting it up I cycled the suspension w/o shock and it seemed like I had enough give. 

Maybe I'm just lucky?

now if I could just figure out the creaky a$$ bottom bracket................Nothing like a $5k bike that sounds like my 1973 huffy


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Nefariousd said:


> I haven't added any. I have a 32 in front, 42 WT, goat link, 1051 chain (114 link), xt long cage. Still have quite a bit of slack in the cage at full compression. I'm using full travel on landings.
> 
> I was told by Timberline I would probably have to add some so I
> bought two chains, but when I was setting it up I cycled the suspension w/o shock and it seemed like I had enough give.
> ...


Strange. Am running sram xx1 with 32t front, so should work with the same length. Yesterday, at the bottom of a steep single-track and powering to climb a steep one, it broke. I will check the length when the new Chai is delivered. 
Even 2 breakage points:








Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

None, I'm running 2 x 10, which works killer BTW 

Chain break is the price you pay running 1 x.

Add a chain guard and then increase the chain length.



HDTVdevil said:


> How many links do you guys add to the chain to account for the suspension. I have 2 broken KMC chains (at full 116 links length) in 6 weeks.


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## Riderofbikes (Oct 1, 2007)

This is interesting. I'm gonna put a 32 on one, and explore this closer. In the meantime, you might like a 30t on there... or even a 28?

Once you get your new chain on there, definitely put 'er in the 42t, remove the rear shock bolt, and cycle the swingarm. If there's any forward spring still available in the xx1 at full travel, you're good. But I'd still consider that 30t to ease some of the chain trauma.



HDTVdevil said:


> How many links do you guys add to the chain to account for the suspension. I have 2 broken KMC chains (at full 116 links length) in 6 weeks.


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

*Foes Mutz "USA"*

Look at the Details...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Though I had fun doing the Snowshoe Enduro this weekend on my FXR275, my greatest regret is holding off on the purchase of a Mutz. The absolutely horrible weather causing nonstop mud would have been the perfect conditions for the Mutz to excel in the enduro format. That race has sealed the deal, as soon as i can save my pennies, I will get one...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

More Mutz:

















Great friggin bike, hauls arse, I'm riding waaaay to fast 

I'm pining for some Nobby Nic 3"; the Trax Fattys are a bit slippery on loose soils.

I have a 120mm Bluto, no volume spacers, ~90psi and a CC Inline, set close to factory specs, (I increased low speed rebound a bit because it felt spongy), ~ 120psi which uses up 90-95% of the travel on a big hit ride.

I've played around with the fork quite a bit, looking for a good set up that matched the shock. Started with two volume spacers and higher air pressure, gradually worked down to a softer overall setting.

The shock is still a mystery to me, so I am only making small changes. I probably need to get on the CC Inline set up thread and do some edumacating.

I'm 5'11", 31-32" inseam, 195#, normal arms and legs, and I ride a medium frame. Mine is set up with 730mm bars, 80mm stem, 170mm crank, and a non setback dropper (seat centered). I could probably ride a large frame, though I'd need a much shorter stem (50-60mm).

So here's the thing: The Mutz is looong, this is not a bad thing, but if you pick a bigger frame it makes it even longer and taller. The ETT on the Mutz is typical for the frame size, but the top tube is set fairly high for a bike of this kind, the seat tube ends low (lots of seat post showing), the BB is set back (promotes seat set back), and the chainstays are long.

If you like air, riding fast, and come from a more enduro mindset, the Mutz is a better choice than the BS; it just plain has more suspension and burl. I'll admit, the KK is pretty darn beautiful and I am a Weagle suspension fanboy, BUT the Mutz single pivot suspension works well on the up and down; ie this should be a non issue when making a decision.

I run a 2 x 10 and the KK is a 1 x 10, admittedly I rarely use the big chairing, BUT I like choices and I like to go fast. I do wish the Mutz had a place for a water bottle as my dog often goes with me; the KK has a bottle cage mount. I tried mounting to the stem and seat post, those were a no go, so I'll probably end up mounting something up high on the seat or strapping a big bottle crossways on the bar.

The Mutz is not cheap, the KK is really expensive, but when you're spending big money it probably doesn't matter a lot.

Mutz wish list: 
Water bottle mount
Sliding drop outs to accommodate a 27.5 x 2.8 to a 29 X 3
A beefier fork than the Bluto


----------



## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> More Mutz:
> 
> View attachment 998737
> 
> ...


Nice ride and a very helpful post. I am the same height and inseam and have come to the same conclusion on sizing. I hope to set up a test ride to make the final call. What are you running for rim width?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I run WTB Scrapers (45mm id).

Where do you live?

I'm helping a buddy with a Mutz build, size Large, once it's done I can post pics and measurements.



Stu Pidassle said:


> Nice ride and a very helpful post. I am the same height and inseam and have come to the same conclusion on sizing. I hope to set up a test ride to make the final call. What are you running for rim width?
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

I live in Mass, we have pretty rough trails. I think a wider rim would take a beating in the summer. the shop I plan on going through is Likin' Bikin' in Alton, nh. Kind of new to fat bike set up would like to see your buddies set up. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just moved from TN, similar terrain to MA, tons of rocks and roots, I'm now living in the land of rocks (Central WA). Rim shots are rare with fat tires, the Scraper takes them as well as any. I'm not sure CF is better for rocks, after building a set for a buddy I get the impression that they would chip vs scratch, so maybe that's worse?

For rough terrain, loose rocks, jumbled rock, a 2.8-3" tires is good; big rocks ping off stuff more. I like the fatter tires for packed or slickrock.



Stu Pidassle said:


> I live in Mass, we have pretty rough trails. I think a wider rim would take a beating in the summer. the shop I plan on going through is Likin' Bikin' in Alton, nh. Kind of new to fat bike set up would like to see your buddies set up.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> I just moved from TN, similar terrain to MA, tons of rocks and roots, I'm now living in the land of rocks (Central WA). Rim shots are rare with fat tires, the Scraper takes them as well as any. I'm not sure CF is better for rocks, after building a set for a buddy I get the impression that they would chip vs scratch, so maybe that's worse?
> 
> For rough terrain, loose rocks, jumbled rock, a 2.8-3" tires is good; big rocks ping off stuff more. I like the fatter tires for packed or slickrock.


I realized after my reply that you seem to by riding a 27.5+ where I am looking at a traditional fat bike with 4 inch tires. I am thinking that I should go with 65mm rims on a year round bike, based on my limited experience with a hardtail fat bike and comments from others who ride their wide rims in the summer. This also seems like a good opportunity to save a bit of weight. The issue is that there does not seem to be a lot of options if I don't stick with 80mm.

Am I over thinking this?


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Stu Pidassle said:


> I realized after my reply that you seem to by riding a 27.5+ where I am looking at a traditional fat bike with 4 inch tires. I am thinking that I should go with 65mm rims on a year round bike, based on my limited experience with a hardtail fat bike and comments from others who ride their wide rims in the summer. This also seems like a good opportunity to save a bit of weight. The issue is that there does not seem to be a lot of options if I don't stick with 80mm.
> 
> Am I over thinking this?


I'm actually running 80's with Fat B Nimbles. I'm using cheap origin8 wheels at ~$80 per because I tend to try things that often result in bent rims. I almost went 27.5+, but I was pressed for time and could only get one tire.

My experience has been pretty positive with the wide wheels, though I must admit I'm still really curious about taking down the rolling resistance on hard pack a bit since that is the surface I primarily ride on.

Nurse Ben where in WA are you? I'd be interested in checking out your set up before I spend the coin to build a second wheel set


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Wenatchee.

The Mutz is great with a fat 650b, the 3.25 Trax Fatty are kinda rotund but still skinny compared to 26" fatties. I'm waiting on some more aggressive 650 tires to finish the dry season, then for winter I'll revert to 26 x 4 studded.



Nefariousd said:


> I'm actually running 80's with Fat B Nimbles. I'm using cheap origin8 wheels at ~$80 per because I tend to try things that often result in bent rims. I almost went 27.5+, but I was pressed for time and could only get one tire.
> 
> My experience has been pretty positive with the wide wheels, though I must admit I'm still really curious about taking down the rolling resistance on hard pack a bit since that is the surface I primarily ride on.
> 
> Nurse Ben where in WA are you? I'd be interested in checking out your set up before I spend the coin to build a second wheel set


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## LAWS (Oct 23, 2008)

I've been riding my Mutz on all mountain terrain since winter. Lots of snow, mud, rocks, jumps, drops, and everything in between. Mostly at 6,000-10,000 feet altitude. 
I trashed the Bluto pretty quickly, and that fork definitely didn't like a 203mm rotor up front. Way too much flex and chatter with the bigger front brake.
I had Mike V. from Timberline Cycles order me up a new Risse Trixxy double crown inverted fat bike fork. The one for up to 5" tires. ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS FORK!! Stiff as a DH fork, but not much heavier than the Bluto. And it's smooth as butter!


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## LAWS (Oct 23, 2008)

Here is my Mutz with the Trixxy fork. As you can see, it has taken me 7 years to figure out how to post pictures on here. Lol.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up, I had tried to get ahold of Risse a couple months back when I built my Jefe Tandem, but they never returned my calls or emails. I tried them again tonight after I saw your fork and they answered the phone!!

My fork is ordered, a week or two lag time, I am sooooo stoked!!

If it works out, then my Mutz will get one too.

How I ordered:

150 x 15, spacers are inset into the fork legs to adjust down from 20mm.

Travel range is user dependent, I wanted 80-120 adjusted by changing internal spacers, I chose to have it preset at 100mm.

I got a taper steer tube, total length is ~10", so ample for a tall head tube and mucho spacers.

The legs can be adjusted in the clamps to change ride height. I'm running 29+ Dirt Wizards, so they may need to build it with a longer damper

Total weight is ~6.5#, kinda hefty, but for a tandem with a team weight of 340#, we need that burliness.

All I need now are fork leg protectors 



LAWS said:


> Here is my Mutz with the Trixxy fork. As you can see, it has taken me 7 years to figure out how to post pictures on here. Lol.
> QUOTE]


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

What is the weight of the trixxy for the Mutz? Or is it the same weight for as the one you mentioned for the tandem? 

Spoke with my shop about a Mutz with a CCDB air CS and a set of I9 and whiskey rims. The fork is still the question in the build.


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## LAWS (Oct 23, 2008)

JCHKeys said:


> What is the weight of the trixxy for the Mutz? Or is it the same weight for as the one you mentioned for the tandem?
> 
> Spoke with my shop about a Mutz with a CCDB air CS and a set of I9 and whiskey rims. The fork is still the question in the build.


I think mine came in at about 6lbs. Don't remember exactly. The bike is a big fat tank, so I'm not too concerned about a pound here or a pound there. 
The way I see it, if the bike is heavier, you get stronger. And the ability to blast over any terrain with confidence and have big brakes made it worth it for me! The Bluto made me very nervous.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A big fat tank that rides very well.

I hadn't been on my Atlas 29er for three weeks, ever since I brought the Mutz home.

I blew the damper n my Bluto, so I had to ride the Atlas yesterday. All I can say is that the Mutz is better in every way other than it's heft.

The Mutz is not huge by any stretch, but the heft it has is important in how a bike like the Mutz rides. It's sorta like wanting a truck to tow a trailer and not wanting to get a full sized truck: You get blown around and you bog up the hills.

The Bluto doesn't make me nervous, it works fine, but it is kinda skinny/flexy and it's not the best performing fork I have ridden. I haven't ridden a Trixxy, so I'll try it on my tandem first. If it is a great fork, then I'll consider adding one to my Mutz. I am also waiting on RS to release a burly fat bike fork...

Anyone wanna buy a carbon Atlas?



LAWS said:


> I think mine came in at about 6lbs. Don't remember exactly. The bike is a big fat tank, so I'm not too concerned about a pound here or a pound there.
> The way I see it, if the bike is heavier, you get stronger. And the ability to blast over any terrain with confidence and have big brakes made it worth it for me! The Bluto made me very nervous.


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

i have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow. my hope is that the bike will bring fat tire benefits to a trail/am/enduro platform. i am looking for the fat tire version of a go anywhere do anything bike. for those who have real world experience, is there anything that i should pay attention to on the ride?


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Just take a mirror with you and look at your face after the test, your smile will be as big as the wheels size


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Stu Pidassle said:


> i have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow. my hope is that the bike will bring fat tire benefits to a trail/am/enduro platform. i am looking for the fat tire version of a go anywhere do anything bike. for those who have real world experience, is there anything that i should pay attention to on the ride?


Just be sure to keep an open mind. I've come to find setup to be a pretty significant factor.

Mine can go from "good" to freakin' awesome with pressure changes alone. The nice thing as little changes can go a long way to making behave exactly how you want it to.

I've been riding mine about 13-14 hours a week since I built it and have made quite a few incremental changes here and there and now that it's working well and I've adapted my $8000, 18 speed internal gearbox, Nicolai Helius TB 29'er wunder-bike just sits in the garage. I suppose I'm keeping it to use when my shock needs servicing.

Enjoy it; and it's only money, they'll print more


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement and thanks to Likin Bikin for allowing me to test ride their demo. overall i really liked it, the bike is certainly a major upgrade over my hardtail fat bike. that said i was not blown away and feel that i would have a hard time keeping up the my normal riding group on the mutz. to be fair the cock pit felt cramped, i would have felt better with a longer stem. another factor was the demo loop was not very technical so the bike did not have a real chance to shine. 

it is better for me to purchase a new bike at year end, so i plan on building up a summer wheelset for my current bike with the expectation that i will be getting a mutz at some point in the future.

thanks again for your input, i will keep an eye on this thread.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bring a multitool and use it to adjust the cockpit, seat, etc, don't be shy. Pay attention to sizing, it rides big, so if you're between sizes you have to think about how youll use it.

Read up on adjusting the CC Inline, the factory setting is neutral, with slow speed rebound a bit to the negative (cushier).

Also bring a fork pump so you can mess with pressures,I run a lot less psi on the CC than on an RS.



Stu Pidassle said:


> i have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow. my hope is that the bike will bring fat tire benefits to a trail/am/enduro platform. i am looking for the fat tire version of a go anywhere do anything bike. for those who have real world experience, is there anything that i should pay attention to on the ride?


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## gruppo (Nov 14, 2004)

My Mutz

Medium frame w/Bluto fork
Mix of XX1/XO1 w/twist shifters (28 T chainring)
BB-7/FR-5 brakes w/180 rotors
Hope hubs & DT Swiss BR 710 rims / Bontrager Hodag 26X3.8 tires 
Gravity Dropper seatpost
Easton Haven 35 stem & carbon bars
Cane Creek 40 headset

A bit over 34 pounds (Heavy Crank Bros platform pedals)


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

*Paid Spam: Mutz frame set + Bluto*

2015 Red Frame + CC Inline, size Medium, 120mm Bluto.

Foes Mutz FS Frameset (Med), Cane Creek Inline, Bluto 120mm - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

#1 Medium in Red, 650 3.25"
#2 Large in Green, 26 x 4.8

No pics yet from my new build (Large Red), we rode Xanadu yesterday, it was fun


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## Exiger77 (Dec 28, 2014)

Change that seat post. Doesn't match the bike.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

How tight of a fit are the 4.8s on the green Mutz? Thx


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

What rims are those from the 650+ / 3.25 tires?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

CRWLN said:


> How tight of a fit are the 4.8s on the green Mutz? Thx


Bulldozer 4.8's, kinda tight IMHO, but I was just the builder. There was a 1/4+ to the stays and bridges, 1/8" to the chain. I think if the rider gets going fast in the largest cog he could break his chain on the tire. I spaced the cranks over as far as reasonable and trued the rim a bit toward the non drive side.

Personally, on a bike of this caliber, I'd run 26 x 4" with studs in the winter. An FS fatty is not about floatation, it's about going fast, traction, jumping, climbing. If you want mega float, get a CF hardtail and run the fattest tires you can get.



> What rims are those from the 650+ / 3.25 tires?


WTB Scrapers i45 with Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 3.25


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Thanks!!!


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## kingkabong (Jul 19, 2015)

LAWS said:


> Here is my Mutz with the Trixxy fork. As you can see, it has taken me 7 years to figure out how to post pictures on here. Lol.


This is super hot. I love triple clamp forks. Haven't ever ridden one on an MTB tho. I guess these are heavier than the Bluto?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

*Muuuuuuuutz !!!!!*

Just finished mine 

This week i'll go test it in Nice countryside; Then next week i'll bring my Mutz just near the French/Italian Alps 

I' m so happy !!!!!!!

































Steve, from Nice, France


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

Has anyone seen a mutz setup 650b+ with a fox 34 150mm fork? I'm considering it for a dedicated mini fat, but probably can get away with doing that to a shaver.....


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Just an stupid question: the factory set up is 5" rear travel or 5.5"?
Mine came with the shock in the lower hole. I think that this is shorter travel. I am going to try an insane Manitou dorado 29" fork and Vanhelga combo.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That triple clamp Risse Trixxy may look cool, but good luck getting one!

After eight weeks and numerous promises, I'm giving up on Risse. 

Since they have stopped answering the phone, I'll have VISA sort it out.

Next?

Gawd help me if the Bluto is the best we can get. ..


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

I answer my self: lower position 5". Upper position 5.5"


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Gawd help me if the Bluto is the best we can get. ..


This is why I'm really interested in it for a dedicated 275+ xc shredder....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I did "finally" get ahold of Risse, so the fork should ship this week, fingers crossed!

I'd like to have two of these forks, but the delay, the weight, the old tech, I would prefer to have a Pike or something similar if only someone would produce it.

I've had biker buddies tell me it's not profitable, but with the number of Blutos being sold on fat bikes and the lack of alternatives to the Bluto, wouldn't it make sense to offer a higher end fork on a higher end bike? 

Putting a Bluto on a Mutz is like putting a Reba on a Troy.


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

In 1 week I would have mounted the Manitou Dorado 29" on my Mutz. It looks crazy, but I just see one negative point: weight:2900gr
You can choose the travel just limiting it while pressuring, and the Hodag and Vanhelga tires have enough clearance. 
But sure we all pray for a pike or 36 fox for Fatty use.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*Where to purchase frame*

This will be the next fatbike frame I will buildup this fall. Can anyone recommend the best place to purchase this frame from.


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## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

Tripower said:


> This will be the next fatbike frame I will buildup this fall. Can anyone recommend the best place to purchase this frame from.


Timberline Cycles in Colorado Springs sells quite a few Mutz frames. I think they sell more frames out of state than they do locally.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

CRWLN said:


> Timberline Cycles in Colorado Springs sells quite a few Mutz frames. I think they sell more frames out of state than they do locally.


Thanks for the response. Bought a frame from them last Saturday.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Tripower said:


> Thanks for the response. Bought a frame from them last Saturday.


No pics, then it didn't happen 

What fork are you getting?

I have a fork on order from Risse, it's a Trixxy, spacers for a 15mm TA, I'm going to run it on the fat tandem first, then see about running it on the Mutz. I had lost hope that it was being built, but I finally spoke to someone last Friday and the only hold up is the spacers. Of course, I was told it would ship last week... no news is no news 

I don't really hate the Bluto, it's taken some time to get it working well with the CCinline, but it does work okay. I'm not a little guy and I feel like the small bump compliance could be a whole lot better, as well I'd take a little more stiffness.

Bluto 120mm: Two tokens and 65psi is the sweet spot for me (200#), using 90-95% of travel, small hits are okay, still struggle with sticky stanchions...

CCinline: I think the factory Mutz CCinline settings are durn close for me. At 100psi I get about 25-30% sag, which keeps me at 90-95% travel usage. I added two clicks of HSR one or two clicks of LSR so the back end was more supple without compromising climbing. So far this seems to work on big hits (my big hits are likely smaller than your big hits, YMMV), but I may add a click for HSC if I start bottoming out on jumps; so far it's worked fine.

I am now running Specialized Purgatory 650 x 3", so much better than the Vee Rubber Trax Fatty, more traction, less autosteer, very neutral feeling tired, pretty much point and shoot. It was a little "weepy" the first week of riding, but after a long ride the other day it has very few squirt marks. The Purg has a much more square profile than the TF, the outside knobs actually grip and it's a fast tire.

Great bike, my favorite bike of all time!!


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

It should arrrive this Friday. I will post pics for the non-believers.  Working on my build part list. I have a lot of fatbike parts laying around I might use. I will be using the "NEW" Bluto. I have the "OLD" Bluto on my El Gordo and it is fine.

I will be lacing up the DT Swiss rims to I9 hubs. I already have the hubs from a previous bulid that I did not use (My wifes fatbike).

The tire will depend on what fits. I have most of them laying around so I will see what fits best Vs what ride quality suits me.


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Manitou Dorado on:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Big fork, what's the travel? Is it a 135mm spacing? 

I'm still waiting for my Risse Trixy, it's closing in on three months... 

I'll be calling them tomorrow, again, I'll wager a week or two of getting voice mail until I get a live person who will tell me it's shiiping on Monday...

I would not recommend Risse at this point, not sure what's up with them but they are clearly having problems. 

I was going to call Visa last week and reverse the charge, but I finally got through to a live person who said it would ship Friday; note that this is thr fourth time I have been told this same thing. 

If there was a better option for a 150 axle, that's not a Bluto, I'd buy it.


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

It is a Manitou Dorado 29" Down Hill fork. Axle is 20mmx110mm. Travel 175 mm but you can adjust it just shortening the fork while pressuring the chamber. The bike has change completely. It will stay there, even if a Pike or something similar for FAT is developed next years.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just filed a complaint with VISA against Risse Racing for failure to deliver the Trixxy fork as promised.

Two months, four promises of delivery, numerous attempts to contact Risse by phone and email, and I never received a single contact explaining the delay.

So sad, the fork had promise, now I'm back to square one, looking at swapping out hubs to the boost standard 

Caveat emptor


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Sorry about that, you seemed to have drank their coolaid for a bit, you almost had me convinced to get one...

I have been watching Eurobike like mad, hoping Rockshox or Fox would come to the table with one... hell even Marz, Magura, someone.... but nothing...

Though I am really interested in the Mutz, I am gaining interest in the 27.5+ and would love to see a Mutz like bike with the 148 rear and ready to accept a 3.25 tire...


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Tripower said:


> It should arrrive this Friday. I will post pics for the non-believers.  Working on my build part list. I have a lot of fatbike parts laying around I might use. I will be using the "NEW" Bluto. I have the "OLD" Bluto on my El Gordo and it is fine.
> 
> I will be lacing up the DT Swiss rims to I9 hubs. I already have the hubs from a previous bulid that I did not use (My wifes fatbike).
> 
> The tire will depend on what fits. I have most of them laying around so I will see what fits best Vs what ride quality suits me.


The frame arrived today. Now I need to get together my parts build list.


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## KennethJohn (Sep 2, 2015)

*Foes Mutz 4 inch Vee Mission & 2.8 inch Trailblazer*

































Build:
Foes Mutz Medium
Chris King Headset
RockShox Bluto 120mm
RaceFace Next 35 20mm Rise Handlebar trimmed to 740mm
RaceFace Atlas 35 50mm stem
XTR M9000 with SRAM Rotor 180mm front/160mm rear
XTR Di2 - Battery hidden in seat tube
Nextie 90mm with Vee Mission 4 
and Nextie 50mm with WTB Trailblazer 2.8
Hope Fatsno
ODI Rogue
KS LEV Integra Dropper
WTB Pure V
RaceFace Next SL 32t & BB

2 bikes for the price of 1


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

That is what I am considering, using I9 with Whiskey rim and Stans Hugo 52 27.5. But not until the 140mm travel fat Pike is announced, hopefully at Interbike next week.


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## Timppa H (Oct 22, 2005)




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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Timppa H said:


> View attachment 1014932


^^^ Nice!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Do you have some insider info or is this just you dreaming?

I'd snap one up in a blink!



JCHKeys said:


> That is what I am considering, using I9 with Whiskey rim and Stans Hugo 52 27.5. But not until the 140mm travel fat Pike is announced, hopefully at Interbike next week.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If I didn't ride in the snow, I'd stay with 3" tires, but I'm all about one bike and swapping wheels... currently riding Purgatorys, great tread, no issues with casing wear or flatting.

The Foes Alpine Plus just came out, I think it's 27.5+, the pics I saw showed WTB Trailboss 3.0



JCHKeys said:


> Sorry about that, you seemed to have drank their coolaid for a bit, you almost had me convinced to get one...
> 
> I have been watching Eurobike like mad, hoping Rockshox or Fox would come to the table with one... hell even Marz, Magura, someone.... but nothing...
> 
> Though I am really interested in the Mutz, I am gaining interest in the 27.5+ and would love to see a Mutz like bike with the 148 rear and ready to accept a 3.25 tire...


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Here you got:


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Just ordered my Mutz frame today from Free-Ride, so need to get started on gathering parts.
Anyone know if clearance OK for Clown Shoes with say 4.8" tyre? I'm probably not going to go that wide, but would like to know what the limit is.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

I have the Barbegazi 26×4.7″ tire on an 80mm rim. I'm NOT a fan of huge wide rims. I think you need to have some contour to the tire instead of it looking like a quad/4wheeler. If that doesnt fit, maybe Foes could secretly not-so-secretly popping some 197mm rear triangles out O


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That's not helping...



pplucena said:


> Here you got:
> 
> View attachment 1016510


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What's the largest tire you can fit on the Mutz?


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for that gearhead. I'm currently riding a Fatboy with 4.6" tyres on 90mm rims and like the feel, so didn't wan't to go too much narrower.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.

Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?

Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.



kntr said:


> What's the largest tire you can fit on the Mutz?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.
> 
> Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?
> 
> Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.


Because I have a set of almost new 5" Dillinger studs for riding on ice and in deep snow. I use to have a ti-Mukluk.

I have a set of 4" Van Helgas for summer already too.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.
> 
> Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?
> 
> Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.


I don't have access to a full suss Fat yet, but my experience of riding fat front suspension hasn't led me to conclude that a 5" tyre bounces significantly more than a 4" tyre and so defeats the suspension. Perhaps I'm just a clumsy and insensitive rider.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Anybody recommend a good crank for the Mutz? I'm not looking to break the bank, but don't want to skimp either. Does the frame take a threaded or push-fit BB?


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

kntr said:


> Because I have a set of almost new 5" Dillinger studs for riding on ice and in deep snow. I use to have a ti-Mukluk.
> 
> I have a set of 4" Van Helgas for summer already too.


Having been using vanhelga's on my mutz with great satisfaction this summer.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

brownmruk said:


> Anybody recommend a good crank for the Mutz? I'm not looking to break the bank, but don't want to skimp either. Does the frame take a threaded or push-fit BB?


It uses BSA fornthe BB. I use a RaceFace Turbine Cinch which I had moved over from my previous bike. Am using a BSA30 bottombracket from ROTOR.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nah, tire size is personal preference, I like my tires to track and carve when I ride firm. I have the privilege of being able to go from 5" to 4" to 3" on my bike, so it's just something I notice.

I'm not sure there is an ideal tire size as terrain and user preference varies greatly.

I rode 5" and 4" tires on my Bluto outfitted hardtail fat and I noticed the ride was faster and I had more control at speed on a 4" tire; tires, unlike fork or shock suspension are "uncontrolled suspension". 

If you need a 5" tire on an FS bike, it makes me wonder why you need an FS bike, but if you have 5" studded tires, I suppose that's what you got; I'd trade them for 4" or stud your own.

Good cranks: RF Cinch with direct mount NW ring.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

from the Likin Bikin Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/LikinBikin/timeline/
There are a few pics of the fork

Foxy Mutz! A pretty sweet test kit arrived today from FOX. 
A new extra-volume (EVOL) DPS shock to try out is cool enough. But, after learning that the "boosted" 275+ Fox 34 will actually take this much fat (VanHelga on Whisky rim), we had to try it. Thanks Fox for the extra help. We'll treat 'em real good. 
Full name of the fork: 2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140 3Pos-Adj FIT4 Matte Blk Orange Logo 15QRx110 1.5T 51mm Rake AM (not kidding)


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Nah, tire size is personal preference, I like my tires to track and carve when I ride firm. I have the privilege of being able to go from 5" to 4" to 3" on my bike, so it's just something I notice.
> 
> I'm not sure there is an ideal tire size as terrain and user preference varies greatly.
> 
> ...


I need a 5" because I'm going to ride it in the deep snow in the backcountry. I have found that a 5" floats a lot better than a 4" in deep snow. In the summer Ill ride the 4". I only want one fat bike so its going to be a full suspension.

You make it sound like you are real pro at fat bikes. I'm no beginner either. Here are a few pics of why I want a full suspension fat bike. It has to do it all.

My ti-Mukluk did fine but Im hoping the suspension in the rear will help with the back country riding.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well I'm not trying to sound like a pro... I just like riding fat tires.

I just don't see full suspension providing as much benefit in big snow slogs, the suspension movement will compromise clearance, suspension is more prone to low temperature failures, and suspension makes a heavy bike type even heavier.

If i was doing serious snow riding, I'd have studded 5" tires on the lightest carbon hardtail I could afford, possibly with a Lauf fork.

I really don't think FS fat bikes were intended for snow use per se, I believe the target population was the four season fat biker.



kntr said:


> I need a 5" because I'm going to ride it in the deep snow in the backcountry. I have found that a 5" floats a lot better than a 4" in deep snow. In the summer Ill ride the 4". I only want one fat bike so its going to be a full suspension.
> 
> You make it sound like you are real pro at fat bikes. I'm no beginner either. Here are a few pics of why I want a full suspension fat bike. It has to do it all.
> 
> My ti-Mukluk did fine but Im hoping the suspension in the rear will help with the back country riding.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Well I'm not trying to sound like a pro... I just like riding fat tires.
> 
> I just don't see full suspension providing as much benefit in big snow slogs, the suspension movement will compromise clearance, suspension is more prone to low temperature failures, and suspension makes a heavy bike type even heavier.
> 
> ...


When you are only going to have one fat bike, it might as well be a FS.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> When you are only going to have one fat bike, it might as well be a FS.


That's why I ride a Mutz, but I'm kinda odd that way 

Are you going to get some 650+ wheels for non snow riding?

The "big deal" right now is getting a decent fork. The Bluto is functional, but it has terrible stiction, rebound is garbage, and it can be leaky, not to mention the damper failure issue. I want to buy a Wren, it looks like the right combination of form and function (34mm stanchions), but travel is only 110mm. The owner responded to my email, saying that a 150mm travel/150mm hub spaced fork will be available in the Spring. I'd like to believe it....but I'm tired of waiting.

I continue to work on getting a DH fork rebuilt for 150mm spacing, currently waiting on Timberline bikes to help me get through to Risse, but at a certain point I'll have to give up. One option would be 135mm spacing, but it is also seems to be a dead end for everyone other than Wren, so then it's boost which may clear a 4" tire in some forms; boost will definitely not clear a 5" tire.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

I'd like a bigger/better fork too, but I guess it is all about sales volume for Rockshox. If they are selling enough Blutos, then maybe they will produce a Pike sized fat fork and also refresh the Bluto. Otherwise we will have to hope a boutique manufacturer will get it right. From what I have read, there seems to be more action in the +size fork arena rather than the full fat.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dorado or Fusion Revel

The new Bluto is suppose to be a lot better.


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

*got one...*

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the comments, it helped me in my selection. Trying to pay back all the good advice so here's my lengthy report. I've always wanted a Foes Bike and when I saw the Mutz it along with the stellar reviews sealed the deal. I respect what Foes has done with his builds and the bike has not disappointed. I rode the Bucksaw before I bought this and really would have been happy with it but again, always wanted a Foes. My build is:

Weight: 32.4lbs
Frame Size: Medium
Whiskey 70 wheels
I9 Hubs
Van Helga tires
Canfield Brothers Crampon flats, Mg
New XT8000 Rear drivetrain, set up as 1x11
XT brakes, comm error with my builder and I will be changing over to XT8000, the XT's are ok but being used to XTR they're not cutting it for me.
RF Next SL cranks, 170mm w/ RF 28T ring
ODI Rogue Grips
Truvativ Noir 40 Carbon Bars, only 640 (from another bike) I have the same bar in a 720mm on it's way.
Spec Phenom seat, Ti rails
Thompson Elite Setback post
Bluto 120 fork
CC DB Inline shock
lower end RF stem, 50mm. Wasn't sure about length so I didn't bling out.

So far this thing has been great. I did buy the XT front derailleur for when I go out west. Having the mount elevated this frame over Turner imho. Though I suspect a Turner frame would be sweet as well.

I do notice Bluto flexing but not much choice so... Not interested in DH fork. I do plan on a 40-50mm 650b setup next spring and may consider a '+' fork. I've heard a lot of speculation that a fat pike or equivalent may become available, I sure hope so but I don't hold out much hope. It seemed clear from Interbike that 27.5+ is all the rage and I believe the big boys will continue to go that route. To an extent I understand. I think until someone comes up with a high volume 4 inch tire with rigid side walls we may be stuck with the Bluto. In the limit they simply won't corner as well on singletrack as a skinny tire. Sand use is the exception.

i really like the CC shocks. I replaced an RP23 earlier on my Tallboy and really there's no comparison. I guess I have a problem with buying brand new stuff and shipping it off to Push to make it right.

I'll probably 'borrow' the Bud from my wifes Fatboy to try it out in the snow. If it's a go I'll get another one.

On several sections of my favorite track it easily out climbs my Tallboy. Note I'm not that great of a rider really and at 54 my climbing is meh... I mention this to those in my shoes who might think they won't be able to go with 1x11 and/or climb as well as they used to. Not the case, my TB is a sub 25 lb bike and after two rides I can climb better on the Mutz.

That's it!!


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

It looks awesome. Enjoy it!
But I can't explain how you don't use a dropper seatpost. The Mutz is the funniest bike that I ever ride and the funny starts when you drop your seatpost, lower your gravity center and lean your bike. Even if you are not going to use it for enduro, even if you will use it just on road you will note a big change dropping your seatpost. 
The second part is that I had bad experiences with setback seatposts and suspension frames. In my case the frame doesn't work ok when you change your position so back and you have a lot of vertical movement when climbing. I don´t know if you will have this problem with the Mutz because it is a really good suspension system climbing. My inline and fork are always full open without movement while climbing.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I agree, your build sounds awesome, no expense spared and I am green with envy. But the fact that you are using a setback vice a dropper caught me by surprise also. Without a dropper I think that you are missing out on the full capability of that bike (just like every other 4-6 inch travel bike on the market). I have reverbs on every bike I own (other than my tandem, that would just be weird), and it unlock so much potential. Even my hardtail fat bike is a new beast when you hit that reverb button. 

Either way, you have an awesome bike, enjoy it. And you are in the boat with the rest of us, settle for a bluto and start searching/hoping for something better.


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Interesting... I have a straight post I can try but I've always gone back to the setbacks, the position feels better for whatever reason. I have a straight post I will try to see if it does affect suspension. Haven't heard that before.

I've tried a dropper in the past, I think the reverb I have is the wrong size else I might have put it on there. Mine was unreliable and stopped working in the winter, maybe I'll bleed it and try again. Much of my riding here in Michigan doesn't include many big drops but I can understand why folks like them so much.

couple other points I didn't mention about the frame/component combo that maybe I should have since I did call it a review:

0. Everyone has their reasons and preferences for frame selection. For me the biggest advantage of a FS Fatty is I can run higher tire pressures on dry dirt without basketballing into orbit. I just don't like the feel of my fatboy at lower pressures during hard turns, to each his own.

1. The Frame is a tank and amazingly stiff laterally, that said it seems to operate quite smoothly. The build quality, welds, fit, finish is as good as it can get. Foes doesn't screw around with compromised parts that's for sure. It looks to me that every last thing is machined, not a lot of bending going on here... Oh and it is the best looking bike I've ever seen...

2. Coming from VPP I wondered how it would compare, so far it seems capable and comparable. There does seem to be a little added bob over my Tallboy but the DB Inline takes care of it for me using the climb switch. The bearings seem uber solid but easy to get at and maintain. So far this single pivot works for me as well as the VPP and on my Tallboy my links are exposed to hits so in this regard it's better. Santa Cruz has changed their design for the better on later models.

2b. One note, even when setting SAG to 30+% I can't seem to reach max travel. I checked and there are no spacers in the shock so this is new to me. I'm 195 dressed so not exactly a lite weight. Perhaps the leverage change due to the setback post??? It does leave me curious...

3. I can't speak for anyone else of course but I love the slack head tube angle, I do notice it going downhill and my initial impression is this bike would be just fine on real mountainous terrain. Others have real proof, mine is only opinion.

4. I've read some odd comments about seat tube angle that I still don't understand, perhaps it's along the same thread as the comment regarding using a setback.

5. This is my first thru axle on the back and it just works, why they waited this long to do this is a mystery.

6. There is a rub point with my rear der and brake cables around the shock linkage. I'd be interested in knowing how others routed theirs.

7. TBD as to how the braking and suspension interact with each other, I only have a couple rides so far.

8. One final component related comment: I agree with others, the tubeless whiskey carbons are a game changer. I have a Fatboy expert and there is no comparison, on singletrack at least. I know a bunch of folks run theirs tubeless but I don't want to become a 3M or Gorilla tape expert, and I don't want to deal with this on a trip.


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

The Reverb is not a good idea if you are going to ride in snow with low temperatures. At least in my experience hydraulic is affected with the cold temp. People use to go for Gravity Dropper in these conditions. I don´t know if Thomson, Lev,... works ok in snow.
The Mutz is awesome in any case but, believe me, try it with your saddle low and you will be ordering a dropper post in a minute.
For the rubbing hoses use a 3M protection or change them to the lower route are the options.


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## Mika111 (Oct 9, 2015)

Another Mutz from Finland.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Mika111 said:


> Another Mutz from Finland.
> 
> View attachment 1021366
> View attachment 1021365
> View attachment 1021367


Very Nice!!!! Love the color and the Gumwalls are awesome!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Come on, I'm fifty, what's this about old guys can't climb???

In terms of what the Mutz can do and how it rides, I would never call it akward or heavy, to me it's an enduro bike in a fat bike body 

So, I live out West (Cascades WA) and I say you don't need the front derailleur, just stick with 1x, even on my fat tandem I run 1x.



TallBoy51 said:


> On several sections of my favorite track it easily out climbs my Tallboy. Note I'm not that great of a rider really and at 54 my climbing is meh... I mention this to those in my shoes who might think they won't be able to go with 1x11 and/or climb as well as they used to. Not the case, my TB is a sub 25 lb bike and after two rides I can climb better on the Mutz.
> 
> That's it!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

How did you run your lines? There supposed to be run through the shock hanger. I'll post a pic of mine I can remember...

As to the 30% sag not working, first check that your factory settings are correct, then reset the sag, then ride and tweak one thing at a time.

We're the same weight, I had no problem getting full compression at 30% sage, I think my pressure is ~ 115psi. I'm running a little less LSR and LSC to slow down and soften the ride, but I believe I left the HSR and HSC at factory.

What fork pressure are you running? Are you getting full travel up front?

Did you cycle your shock to see where the travel ends? I believe at full compression the rubber ring will be a couple mm from the can, at least that's been my experience.

How tall are you? That post sticks up kinda far and your stem is kinda tall, not trying to be a jerk, but I'm 6' tall, I started with a medium and ended up on a large. I got called out on it and got fussy about it, but in the end a large rides waaay better for someone my size.

Good luck with the set up.



TallBoy51 said:


> 2b. One note, even when setting SAG to 30+% I can't seem to reach max travel. I checked and there are no spacers in the shock so this is new to me. I'm 195 dressed so not exactly a lite weight. Perhaps the leverage change due to the setback post??? It does leave me curious...
> 
> 6. There is a rub point with my rear der and brake cables around the shock linkage. I'd be interested in knowing how others routed theirs.


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Hey Ben,

I posted to get comments so no issues from this side. I had the bike built up by a dealer and told him to leave a lot of post and fill with spacers. This way I can figure out the stem height that's right for me and cut down when I'm satisfied. I'm 5'9" btw... They also routed the cables which other than the rub and they're too long I'm ok with. A couple more sticky cable mounts should do the trick.

My front fork seems ok, I can get full range and am ok with it. You're running your db inline at 115lbs or were you referring to your rear shock? Yesterday after receiving my digital shock pump I set the inline to 145 lbs, had about 18mm sag without my pack on it so my guess it was around 20mm loaded up. I rode my local track and still could only get about 2/3 travel so I don't know what's going on. I even set LSC to one click. I had no problem with maxing my RP23 but maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here. I'm not complaining about performance, just curious about whether something's up with my shock. Oh, and I did cycle the shock and it's fine.

Overall I really like the bike, yesterday would have been perfect conditions for my Tallboy and I simply didn't want to ride it. That's the best vote for this rig I could give. I wasn't quite sure what you guys meant when you said "it's just more fun", but now I do. It's like a little kid with his Tonka truck... Isn't that the point? Build up and ride whatever you want that keeps you on the bike!!

One question for all: What's the biggest fatty tire we can run up front? It will be snowing soon so I was thinking BUD or something similar.



Nurse Ben said:


> How did you run your lines? There supposed to be run through the shock hanger. I'll post a pic of mine I can remember...
> 
> As to the 30% sag not working, first check that your factory settings are correct, then reset the sag, then ride and tweak one thing at a time.
> 
> ...


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I am going to the Beist tires from 45 north (have to order some). Those are 4.6??


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)




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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

5'9", yeah a medium is good, you might want to drop the bars to improve handling.

The 115psi is for the DBInline, I'm 195# nakid, I have run as little as 100psi to get a soft ride for low speed play, but for big hit and jumps, I need a little more support.

To set the DB Inline correctly, start with the factory setting and get the sag at 30%, then start twisting knobs.

Average pressures can vary across units, but 145psi is a lot unless you weigh 250#.

If you want a firmer ride (less plush), then get the sag corrected first, then crank up the LSC.

Biggest front tire is whatever fit's in your Bluto 



TallBoy51 said:


> Hey Ben,
> 
> I posted to get comments so no issues from this side. I had the bike built up by a dealer and told him to leave a lot of post and fill with spacers. This way I can figure out the stem height that's right for me and cut down when I'm satisfied. I'm 5'9" btw... They also routed the cables which other than the rub and they're too long I'm ok with. A couple more sticky cable mounts should do the trick.
> 
> ...


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm curious whether anyone has experimented with the 5 vs 5.5 inch rear shock setup? Mine came set up at 5 inch, is that common? If anyone has tried both, which one did you prefer?


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Interesting, way down at 115lbs. Thanks I'll give it a try. As I mentioned, I had them setup the fork with a bunch of spacers. I assumed I'd be going lower but I kinda like it the way it is. It's easy to pull up the front wheel and I really don't notice it wandering on climbs, plus it's great on the back.



Nurse Ben said:


> 5'9", yeah a medium is good, you might want to drop the bars to improve handling.
> 
> The 115psi is for the DBInline, I'm 195# nakid, I have run as little as 100psi to get a soft ride for low speed play, but for big hit and jumps, I need a little more support.
> 
> ...


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

I run 5.5" inch position since I put the manitou dorado fork. With the Bluto your travel is front limited but you can try, it will take you five minutes to change it.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

I run mine at 5.5 with the Bluto. I can run the shock a little softer with fewer pedal strikes.

It really isn't that noticeable as I'm deep in the travel. I'm heavy though about #250/w gear


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Has anyone tried to mount 4.8 knards? Or whiskey 9s or similar width rims 

Would assume front end fitz

Rear?


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## Jpcannavo (Sep 4, 2015)

Test rode Mutz lat sat in Red Rocks open space, courtesy of Timberline cycles, awesome folks! conditions were dry, with everything from long varying grade hard trail climbs, to sand, gravel, and some brief downhill stretches with jumps and other moderate technical pieces. Bike setup 26x4, vanhelga up fron nates in back. In short loved the bike!! (what a change from a 29 hardtail). Climbing surely more work, but payback is huge going down! Traction was insane, and it's quite something for me to be cardio limited, as opposed to traction limited, when climbing - On mutz i would give out before wheels ever spun out-a rarity for me on my 29x2.1. I'm Thinking though that I likely had more traction than needed, but you hate to give that up! Still, and being more interested in dry all mountain summer riding, wondering whether to go 275+ to start, although both wheel sets are my future.


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Regarding the dropper, have an adapter coming for my Reverb, so... soon...


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What size seatpost clamp?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*The Hulk in the Wild*

Beautiful fall day for a ride around Folsom Lake. What's left of it .


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

kntr said:


> What size seatpost clamp?


??? Is that a question for me? 31.6mm seat tube diameter. I have a 30.6mm Reverb and will be getting a .7mm shim. If I was convinced these things would keep working I'd get another one but mine wasn't that reliable in the past. Going to attempt to rebuild and bleed it to see if it makes any difference. I don't get it, how hard is it to make one of these, seem pretty simple when compared to a shock.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What size seatpost clamp does the mutz take?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

TallBoy51 said:


> I'm curious whether anyone has experimented with the 5 vs 5.5 inch rear shock setup? Mine came set up at 5 inch, is that common? If anyone has tried both, which one did you prefer?


I tried it both ways, at 5.5 it may have slowed travel, it was not better, perhaps with more travel up front..


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Just ordered up the flow dunderbeist setup for mutz

Looking forward to some powder and wider footprint


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> What size seatpost clamp does the mutz take?


The frame comes with a clamp. I believe the post is 31.6.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

blidner said:


> Just ordered up the flow dunderbeist setup for mutz
> 
> Looking forward to some powder and wider footprint


"Clearance Clarence", I built a Mutz with 80mm Chinese Carbon rims and Vee Rubber Bulldozer 4.7, the tire barely cleared the frame and it was too close to the chain; had to true the wheel toward the non drivr side so it wouldn't rub the chain.

I did post this info earlier in the thread...

Ya might want to test fit that Dunderbeist before filling with sealant.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Thanks Nurse Ben

Mutz ran them on his mutz so I don't have any concerns 

The only difference between his bike and is he may be a larger front ring and a different crank but he knows the bike so I am not worried

The nice thing about ordering the bike from mutz at likin bikin is all the post purchase support


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Fat just got fatter

hope to ride in a few days

aired up nice with a floor pump. Hopefully they hold air tonight

Pretty jazzed (where is the snow!!)


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Wren is testing a 150mm inverted fork on a Mutz, if you go to Wren's Facebook site you can see a picture.


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## Jpcannavo (Sep 4, 2015)

JCHKeys said:


> Wren is testing a 150mm inverted fork on a Mutz, if you go to Wren's Facebook site you can see a picture.


And there is this...I discussed this option with Foes on phone last night. Hard to judge clearance from photo though.








2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I think I posted that photo a little while back

That is mutz's bike

And in case some of you were wondering, yes I mounted those tires incorrectly

Mother......


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Fox Float Plus is gonna be tight AND it's a Boost hub (110mm).

The Wren would be an option, I exchanged some emails with the owner he said that some longer travel forks with 150mm hub spacing were in development, but he was talking about Spring/Summer 2016.

I heard that Ventana had something in the works...just got off the phone with Teresa at Ventana, it may not be exactly what "we" are looking for, but it's a step in the right direction:

MRP Groove legs, Ventana made clamps, 120mm travel, designed specifically for the Jefe Tandem.

I suggested that a longer travel option would be great for FS fatbike riders, but because Sherwood is really busy with other projects, it might be one of those situations where you do it yourself; buy the clamps separately and modify an existing long travel Groove.

Teresa said it would be a few more months.



Jpcannavo said:


> And there is this...I discussed this option with Foes on phone last night. Hard to judge clearance from photo though.
> View attachment 1026454
> 
> 
> 2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

5.5" feels way better to me and matches the valving of my Bluto better. Overall the bike feels more balanced front to rear in the long travel mode. 
*Note that changing the shock mount to the 5.5" option also changes the leverage and the rate at which the shock compresses. In the 5" mode the Fox CTD felt too stiff through nasty rock gardens but feels way better now that I changed it to 5.5" You might need to adjust pressure a bit after you change it but it is definitely worth trying to see which you prefer. Don't get caught up in thinking you don't need the travel, think of it as tuning the compression rate. 
As for travel, as far as I can tell, it has no effect on head tube angle once you adjust your sag, its really just allowing your rear wheel to move an extra .5" at the END of the travel. 
I would recommend every Mutz rider experiment with the two positions as it has a pretty noticeable effect and its only 1 bolt to change


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Fox Float Plus is gonna be tight AND it's a Boost hub (110mm).
> 
> The Wren would be an option, I exchanged some emails with the owner he said that some longer travel forks with 150mm hub spacing were in development, but he was talking about Spring/Summer 2016.
> 
> ...


Thanks for these updates, I for one appreciate it!!!


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Wren posted a video of a Mutz with the 160mm travel version being tested on some sandy/rocky terrain. Its pretty impressive and I like the black leg guards. I hope this thing goes into production.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

It's arrived at last - only a month late. Off to get building now. Anyone got the detailed geometry for the Large size for me to check? Foes seem to have changed their website and I can't find it anymore.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

brownmruk said:


> It's arrived at last - only a month late. Off to get building now. Anyone got the detailed geometry for the Large size for me to check? Foes seem to have changed their website and I can't find it anymore.


It is on their site. Just not in a table anymore. I have a large if you need any specific measurements.

Foes MUTZ specs 
Frame Size	SM, MD, LG,XL
HeadTube Angle	67
Seat Tube Angle	70.5
Bottom bracket height	13.25"
Chainstay Length	18"
Toptube Length EFF.	22.25, 23.25, 24.25, 25
Seat post diameter	31.6
Head tube diameter	ZS44 top/ EC49 btm
Head tube length	4.12 SM/MD-LG/XL 4.75
Wheel travel	5"-5.5"
BB Width	100mm
Front Der. Type	Direct Mount
Rear wheel spacing	12x177mm


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks, but the original table had more detail as other measurements also vary for example seat tube length. I think I have verified it's a large from the toptube length. I just wanted the detailed geometry for future reference.

Does anyone have torque settings for the pivots, shock mounts, hanger and rear axle? My frame came without any supporting information and I like to check before I go for a test ride.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Mine was a month late too. I did get to ride it today for the first time. 35.9 lbs with heavy wheels and DH tubes.


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## Kevin W. (Nov 17, 2015)

The fork is in production and is shipping the end of November.
150mm hub, 160mm travel

Inverted Fat Fork handles up to 5" tires.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Nice - where did you get the green Bluto?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

brownmruk said:


> Nice - where did you get the green Bluto?


Ebay


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

*Finally finished.*

Finished building yesterday but only managed a 30 minute test run in the woods, in the dark without lights. Felt awesome though.
Managed to get some torque settings from Free-Ride in case anyone else needs them:
Swing link bolts: 12 ft lb
Mech hanger 5-7 ft lb
Main pivot 20 ft lb

Does anyone know the recommended torque for the rear axle?


----------



## CRWLN (Feb 9, 2015)

^^^^Really liking the Ground Controls on your Mutz. I had a Fatboy before diving into a Mutz, so I know the GCs work well. How's your clearance with them?


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

I've got 4 or 5mm each side at the chainstays. Was out in the snow/slush/mud today and didn't have any issues with pickup. They seem to be exactly the same width on these rims (82mm) as they are on my Fatboy rims (92mm).

I put the Ground Controls on because I had two lying around in my garage and hadn't really made up my mind what else to try. I haven't ridden any other fat tyres, but have poked at plenty and the GCs seem to have relatively thick/stiff sidewalls which I like.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Subjective opinions wanted....

If you had to get a fork for a Mutz right now, would you choose the Wren 160mm or the Fatlab 150mm ? Since neither have a real review yet, I was hoping that people would comment on the merits of the fork components of each.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Nevermind, FATLAB isn't selling their forks separately in the US. I guess it the Wren, or the Wren....


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

Has anyone tried the Wren and is it at all different than the dozen or so guys who have packaged it as their own? They apologize for their website but leave all the typos in there. Doesn't inspire confidence in the product IMHO... I hope it's the solution though.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I have a 100mm lulu fork on an 11 9 simus

That's the fatlab

It's a plush fork 
I've enjoyed it


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

blidner said:


> I have a 100mm lulu fork on an 11 9 simus
> 
> That's the fatlab
> 
> ...


cool, you have one of those too?? nother topic: Have you had snow and if so how have the new 45Nrth tires worked out? I presume too you got your rear hub issue worked out? Are they as we thought, just kinda floating on there so it was a matter of pushing it back in while compressing the pawls?


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Yeah I have a simus as well. I like having a second bike so friends can ride

But 2 turned into 3 

I hub snapped back into place but I did have my lbs clean it out and the grease it. 

No snow to date but I have been very happy the beast tires regardless 

The vh will soon find their way into the simus


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

JCHKeys said:


> Subjective opinions wanted....
> 
> If you had to get a fork for a Mutz right now, would you choose the Wren 160mm or the Fatlab 150mm ? Since neither have a real review yet, I was hoping that people would comment on the merits of the fork components of each.


Fat Lab and Wren are the same Fork, Wren bought the rights to the FOMN, then updated the fork from 34mm to 36mm stanchions, added keyways to resist twist, and made it dual air.

There's a suspension thread on the fat bike forum where the details were posted; I copied an email from Wren with all the tech info.

The fork can be reduced in 10mm increments, I believe they are 160mm forks, spec'd by Foes for 150mm.

I have one on order, just waiting for them to land in mid December. I'll try 150mm first, since that's what Foes think is the best, then consider dropping to 140mm if the HTA is overly slack; not that a half degree is that much...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Basically I am waiting for your initial take on that fork to know if I should pull the trigger on one.


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## TallBoy51 (Mar 12, 2012)

what he says.... Thanks Ben...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm ever so hopeful that the Wren will work out, having Foes pick this fork for the Mutz is a good sign. 

I think they arrive in mid December, so after a long wait we may get our wish... all I want for Christmas is a big travel fat bike fork! 

I can wait two weeks, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...

Heading over to pick up the spokes for my 26" wheels, should have them spinning this weekend, more snow is expected, in the meantime it's taking multiple runs on my "skinny three inch tires" to pack the snow.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Has anyone had problems with the Cane Creek Inline on their Mutz in cold weather? 

My Inline stuck down today at 15-20 F. Now it wont rebound.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> Has anyone had problems with the Cane Creek Inline on their Mutz in cold weather?
> 
> My Inline stuck down today at 15-20 F. Now it wont rebound.


No problems at temps in the teens, worked flawlessly, certainly better than my Bluto 

Did it improve once it warmed up in your house/garage?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Finally got my new fat wheels done:

Onyx Racing Hubs (black), Marge Large lite (Bronze), sealed up with gorilla tape/duct tape (pink flamingos) and Surly toobs (too lazy to get them TL last night), On One Floaters (Burly).

Also changed out the mechanical brakes (Spykes) for a set of Guides.

Still waiting on the fork, should be here before the first!

Gonna ride tonight if I can get the trails in shape...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I finally got the OK to spend the money on a new Mutz from the treasury department. But need alittle wisdom from other Mutz owners....

Can the Maxxis Minion Tires (FBF and FBR) fit on the Mutz if mounted on some 65mm Marge Lite Rims?


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

XL
Panaracer Fat B Nimbles on Fatlab 55s + Hope Fatsnos
Sram GX 1400 cranks 30T.
XT 42T 11 speed cassete
XT shifter +rear d +brakes
Renthall 50mm stem
Enve HDH bar
Lev Integra Dropper
MRP AMG V2 bash/guide
Fox Float DPS EVOL
120 Bluto RCT3
Fun


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Water bottle cage option for Mutz*

So far, so good with the SKS Anywhere Cage mounted on the top tube.
Didn't want to ride with a hydro pack for short rides, so this is my first shot at an on bike hydration option.
Cage retails for $20 or less.
Solid fit on top tube.
Looks like you can swap the SKS cage for the cage of your choice using the supplied mounts if you want something more secure.
Supplied cage doesn't appear to be too secure, but I haven't dropped a bottle yet. If I do, I'll swap to my preferred Lezyne cage which has never dropped a bottle.
Also, the Speedsleev under the seat works great with a dropper post and holds the following:
26x2.8 tube, 2 160z Co2 cartridges, inflator head, KMC 1x11 link, multi tool, tire lever.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

My Wren fork has shipped, I should have the Mutz built up by the end of the month. I have gotten everything except for tires. I am having trouble finding VanHelgas.... any other tire recommendations? Anyone run the Kenda Juggernauts with success?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi JCHKeys,

Let us know what you think about the Wren when you'll have ridden it with your Mutz please.....i've got a Bluto in front of my Mutz. Very happy with the frame, not the same feeling about this fork :madman:

Thanks, 


Steve from France.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I will put posting installation pics, and ride updates. Go over to the fat bikes thread, and there are write-ups about the wren already.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fat-bike-supsension-fork-options-2015-16-a-995256.html


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## Crazy Bear (Apr 25, 2015)

I had a Bluto for the last year. I use my bike for all mountain and the Bluto is a pile of sh... Aside the flex due to the small stanchion, the air chamber leaks in the lowers. Ok it's XC fork so I won't complain about the flex. But When we ( we is 5 person with mutz and Blutos) have to stop during the ride to put more air in the fork and release the pressure built up in the lower by sliding a zip tie between the stanchion and the seal. We had to change the air springs under warranty and some for a fork just out of the box, they keep leaking. Now we all got the wren for our mutz. I got mine in December 9 it was my birthday. The best present ever, I just love it. It balances the bike and is more plush. No problem at all with it on the trail. 
On the 160mm the lateral flex as been solved by a keyed stanchion and it works just fine.
We have some in stock a the shop, we have also some Mutz demo with the wren on it. If you want more info about that contact this guy: [email protected]

Check this out. Wren VS Bluto


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

*Reply*



JCHKeys said:


> Subjective opinions wanted....
> 
> If you had to get a fork for a Mutz right now, would you choose the Wren 160mm or the Fatlab 150mm ? Since neither have a real review yet, I was hoping that people would comment on the merits of the fork components of each.


I would absolutely go with the Wren. I've tested the Fox 27.5+ with 150mm of travel and the Wren definitely has superior performance. The Fox will limit you to a 4" tire as well. Go to Youtube and type in Wren vs. Bluto and see for yourself. Bluto's are just not enough fork for the Mutz.


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

They are the same fork. The Wren is 160mm but they put a stop bumper in it which makes it 150mm. You can only buy a Wren in the US as they have exclusive rights here. The fork on a Mutz in phenom. As good as a Mutz is it is a ton better with a Wren 150mm


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

I have tested a Wren and a Fox. Wren is way better on a Mutz in my opinion. You can go to Youtube and type in Wren vs Bluto. On my site there are some other vids of the Wren performing against other bikes and forks.


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

I've had a Bluto on my Mutz and found it very limiting not to mention we all have problems with the Bluto. I got a Wren 150mm travel and have ridden and tested it extensively. I also tried a Fox. The Wren is a wow the Fox OK and the Bluto sh....The Wren is definitely best and will allow for any size tire. The Fox will not and you have to get a Boost Hub wheel. Wren changes the Mutz geometry for the better. You can go to Youtube and type in Wren vs Bluto and see for yourself. Also on my site are other videos showing the Wren vs other bikes and forks.


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

You will like the extra slackness. The Wren makes everything the Mutz does do it better.


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

Shuttle Service - CrazyBearBikes.com has a new Mutz ready to go.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Thanks JCHKeys, pstosky and Crazy Bear....
I'll mail Xavier soon. Not the moment to buy à new fork, but the wren will take place of my Bluto in front few month for sure....


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

And yes, that's exactly the same for me : the air might pass through the seals when the bluto flex...the Wren will certainly give the Mutz à "better" geometry and a better feeling in the front of my bike.


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

pstoski said:


> I've had a Bluto on my Mutz and found it very limiting not to mention we all have problems with the Bluto. I got a Wren 150mm travel and have ridden and tested it extensively. I also tried a Fox. The Wren is a wow the Fox OK and the Bluto sh....The Wren is definitely best and will allow for any size tire. The Fox will not and you have to get a Boost Hub wheel. Wren changes the Mutz geometry for the better. You can go to Youtube and type in Wren vs Bluto and see for yourself. Also on my site are other videos showing the Wren vs other bikes and forks.


If you're running 4.0inch tires and are ok with a boost hub - curious what you prefer about the wren vs the fox? I've only ever heard amazing things about the new fox. Thanks


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## pstoski (Jun 17, 2013)

a63vette said:


> If you're running 4.0inch tires and are ok with a boost hub - curious what you prefer about the wren vs the fox? I've only ever heard amazing things about the new fox. Thanks


The Fox feels less stable. Not sure if it is because of the narrower hub spacing or not? Although I haven't run tires that are much bigger than 4" I don't like the idea that I can't using the Fox. The extra cost of a different hub and wheel makes it a very expensive setup that doesn't feel nearly as good riding it as the Wren. When I put a Wren 150mm on it had serious WOW. The Fox felt good but there was no wow. Was it better than the Bluto? For sure. I have both forks and the Wren is the one that stays on the bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have no experience with the Fox +, I'm sure it's a good fork; at least the reviews have been positive. The Wren is a beastly fork, think DH fork but in a single crown. It goes where you point it, there is no flex, there's no stiction, there's no air leakage (so far), and it is a perfect match to the Mutz.

The Wren is still a new fork, both in design (as revised) and in production, so it has not been a fault free roll out. One user had issues with stanchion/seal/keyway tolerance (loose fork) and there have been a couple users (me included) who have found the fork to be overdamped.

For Wren's part, they are very receptive to feedback and they are working with users to improve the fork function, which may include changes to the damper. If a Wren user has problems, simply contact Russ at Wren and he'll work with you to fix the issue(s).

The more ride time I get on the Wren, the better it seems to feel; faster rebound and less damp. If the resistance (read as slow return) improves and I can get the damper adjuster to function, then it'll be a good fork.

In terms of set up, this is a 150mm fork (not a 160mm), there are clips that can be swapped around to reduce travel. It was explained to me that reducing travel also reduced fork length (A to C), but there is a question as to how the clips lead to this change. I have this question into Russ now, just waiting on a response.

I like the 150mm fork on the Mutz, but I'm not sure it's the ideal fork length for me, nor do I feel the HTA is where I want to be. I think 140mm would be better and possibly using an Anglset to tweak the HTA might be worthwhile, it all depends on how the bike will be used. It's already a long wheelbase due to the longish CS, so laying the front end out makes for a very long bike.

So, if you're looking to get a Mutz, definitely get the Wren fork option, you won't regret it. If you have a Mutz now and you're running a Bluto, you can always wait, but I don't see how anyone can stand to ride a Bluto on an FS fatty, but then that's just me


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## BlackSheep01 (Oct 20, 2011)

gearhead313 said:


> I have the Barbegazi 26×4.7″ tire on an 80mm rim. I'm NOT a fan of huge wide rims. I think you need to have some contour to the tire instead of it looking like a quad/4wheeler. If that doesnt fit, maybe Foes could secretly not-so-secretly popping some 197mm rear triangles out O


How wide are the Barbegazis on an 80mm rim?


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## boardguru (Oct 3, 2009)

Nurse Ben where did you buy your Mutz? I have been emailing Timberline Cycles about buying from them. I have said I wanted to swap the Bluto for a Wren 150.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

If you happen to live in the New England area look at likin bikin
That's where my Mutz came from 

And it's cool to buy a Mutz from Mutz


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## boardguru (Oct 3, 2009)

I've seen their site, and it would be cool to buy one from him. I live in Northern Utah though so Timberline in Colorado would be cheaper shipping charges for me.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

boardguru said:


> I've seen their site, and it would be cool to buy one from him. I live in Northern Utah though so Timberline in Colorado would be cheaper shipping charges for me.


Foes would be about the same shipping and might save some time having it shipped from CA to CO to you.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Is anyone else out there running the CCDB Air CS on their Mutz? Any hints/tips on the setup? I was planning to go ahead and set it up with no volume spacers and with the neutral tune from CC, adjusting from there. But if someone else has any suggestions, they would be appreciated.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Help!!

Well we bit of an exaggeration 

The hope up blew out and hope sent a replacement driver. Screwed on the cassette and put the wheel back on. The cassette is not spinning properly when the rear thru axle is tightened, causing the wheel to engage backwards

How tight to folks keep their back axle and what is going on here


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Great bike.
One of the best bikes I've ridden in 30 years of MTB.
Love it in on the climbs, descents and in the corners.
Float EVOL is killer. 
Way better than any iteration of CCDBA I've ridden.
Just need fatbike front suspension performance to catch up to rear shock performance.
Been giving the 4.0 Jumbo Jim a workout as a front tire.
Great tire in sand and loose soil. 
So far so good with knob life on rocks and cornering. Wearing better than any other Schwalbe tire I've had. Not a Schwalbe fan by any means,


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

Has anybody try the 27,5 3.8" hodag. It would be a beast if there is enough room in the rear of the mutz for this tire!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My buddy became a retailer so we could get me a Mutz. He got three frames (M, L, L), I built a med to start, sold the frame and built a lrg, then I built the other lrg for a customer.

I'm nog sure in the ordering process, it might be that they're waiting on Wren forks to avoid pairing with Blutos.

For sure, do not get a Bluto, either wait on a Wren or get a Fox boost.



boardguru said:


> Nurse Ben where did you buy your Mutz? I have been emailing Timberline Cycles about buying from them. I have said I wanted to swap the Bluto for a Wren 150.


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## pplucena (Dec 25, 2010)

You should try the Mutz Dorado Combo:


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

pplucena said:


> Has anybody try the 27,5 3.8" hodag. It would be a beast if there is enough room in the rear of the mutz for this tire!


+1 - anybody?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

What's the travel/A-C for your Dorado?

I believe the Wren 150mm travel is 570 A-C. I feel a little choppered out, so I'm considering a reduction to 130mm; 140mm would be better but it's not an option yet.

I'm really liking the Wren, it is way burly, only a pound heavier than a Bluto. Very responsive, good damping, and no stichion.


pplucena said:


> You should try the Mutz Dorado Combo:
> View attachment 1051161


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Love catching air on this thing....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

JCHKeys said:


> Love catching air on this thing....
> 
> View attachment 1055226


How's the Wren treating you?

I've been out pounding the rock, getting air, doing more tech stuff, have since dropped the pressure to 50 psi; I'm 200#, running one turn of rebound, the ride is very plush and there's no stiction. The Wren is so burly, I just plow through things; whether I mean to or not!

I had considered dropping the A-C/travel to 140 or even 130, but I can't see any reason for reducing it now. Even though the HTA is ~ 65.5, I don't think it's too slack, the handling at speed is great, climbing is very good. If I had one complaint it's total chasis length and managing tight turns. I'd take a shorter chainstay, though I wonder how much that would compromise climbing.

The thing about the Wren that I like most is that it doesn't bob when I climb out of the seat and the lockout really does lock the fork.

I am back to running 27+, so unless we get a bunch more snow, this is Spring!

Last ride of the season on 4" tires:


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I just ordered up a set of the Easton arc plus to build up for Mutz

Hoping it all comes in by tomorrow and my lbs can lace up on Saturday for a ride Sunday

Hoping I can the little more speed I am covetting with the lower rolling resistance


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

The fork has been great. It definitely has a break in period as each ride it gets smoother and smoother, but I may take the advice of the tuning thread and may do a disassembly and re-lube it up. 

I am sticking with the 4.0 fork right now, maybe convert to tubeless. I am really enjoying the excess of traction in the mid that we are experiencing. The slack HTA is great at speed but slow technical stuff results in a core and arm workout. The best was at the top of a climb on Sunday I got the normal 'wow, a fatbike, aren't those really slow' as the hardtailers take off down a rooty descent, my riding friends gave me the nod and I took off after them and gave them the courteous 'on your left' as I passed them on roots, pinned. That felt so good.


----------



## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

For those running a b plus setup 3.0 tires, what psi do you run?

Had a setup up Easton arc built up with nobby nic 3.0
Looking forward to trying sunday 
Thanks


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I am done with the Cane Creek Inline. I'm on my 3rd one in 3 months and now its doing the same thing. It packs up and bottoms out. Then when I get off the bike it wont fully extend. I called Cane Creek and they said they have had a ton returned off of the Mutz and they don't know why. 

Has anyone else had problems with their CC Inline?


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

kntr said:


> I am done with the Cane Creek Inline. I'm on my 3rd one in 3 months and now its doing the same thing. It packs up and bottoms out. Then when I get off the bike it wont fully extend. I called Cane Creek and they said they have had a ton returned off of the Mutz and they don't know why.
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with their CC Inline?


Oh no, My Mutz just shipped with the same shock. Should I be worried?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

kntr said:


> I am done with the Cane Creek Inline. I'm on my 3rd one in 3 months and now its doing the same thing. It packs up and bottoms out. Then when I get off the bike it wont fully extend. I called Cane Creek and they said they have had a ton returned off of the Mutz and they don't know why.
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with their CC Inline?


When I talked with my shop and Foes, at my weight, they told me the inline wasn't the best choice and I went with a CCDB Air CS... its been a great shock so far.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I've had no problems
Medium frame
200 pounds dressed 

Love the fork

Sorry to hear about your experience


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

JCHKeys said:


> When I talked with my shop and Foes, at my weight, they told me the inline wasn't the best choice and I went with a CCDB Air CS... its been a great shock so far.


I upgraded to the CCDB air CS. I should have it in a week. I have the CS on my DH bike and have had no problems. The Inline is just hit or miss. I have one on my daughters bike and she hasn't had any problems.

Like I said, I'm on my 3rd Inline in 3 months. I've given up trying. I absolutely love the shock when its working.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Fox FLOAT EVOL DPS is the ticket on the Mutz for me.
I've run CCDBA's on other bikes and I am familiar with all iterations of CCDBAs-inline, climbs switch etc.
FOX FLOAT EVOL is a great match for the Mutz.
Absolutely one of the best frame + shock combos I've ridden in 30+ years of mtb.
Yes, prior FLOATS and RPs get slammed for one reason or other, but the EVOL DPS is the best FLOAT variant I have ever ridden.
YMMV, but the the CCDBA Inline is completely underwhelming in reliability and performance isn't ahead of other shock options.


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

*Quick release Rear*

I have seen on photos, there Mutz with a DT Swiss QR.

Does anyone know if the are available?
On the website of DT Swiss I find nothing ...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

So the Mutz used to use a 12x177 1.5TP axle, the same one that the Salsa Beargrease uses. DT swiss made an axle for that application. The mutz now uses a 1.75TP axle, and I have not found a DT Swiss in that size.



matt45 said:


> I have seen on photos, there Mutz with a DT Swiss QR.
> 
> Does anyone know if the are available?
> On the website of DT Swiss I find nothing ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> I am done with the Cane Creek Inline. I'm on my 3rd one in 3 months and now its doing the same thing. It packs up and bottoms out. Then when I get off the bike it wont fully extend. I called Cane Creek and they said they have had a ton returned off of the Mutz and they don't know why.
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with their CC Inline?


Nope, mine works fine, running nearly stock settings with just a little less rebound at the high end.

I can't see how the platform would cause problems with a shock, perhaps a bad batch?

I have one of the early ones.

I'm 200#

Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough, but for me a shock/fork just needs to help me maintain traction and absorb teh hits, all without packing down. I rarely have fork dislike unless the fork has excessive flex, stiction, or break down issues. The Bluto had all three in spades.

I find the CC Inline to be a nice riding shock, it does everything I want it to do, perhaps it's a bit damp, but I could adjust that out if it was a big enough issue. I'm more likely to mess with my fork than my shock, I suppose that's laziness or maybe I just don't care enough.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Just rode Mutz for the first time as a 650plus

Easton arc 45 rims with 3.0 nobby nics

I've been riding the beist tires on whiskeys since November and prior to that vanhelgas on whiskeys. I've always loved the bike and have become technically better on the Rocky rooty stuff in New England. As such I became faster. But I've never felt fast

I rode tonight, and night is always tricky for me in general, but the ride was awesome. The bike felt more alive and far more aggressive in terms of acceleration and cornering. With that said, I need to adjust some of my lines.

I've read a lot of posts about the b plus tires so finally pulled the trigger in time for spring

And then a snowstorm is set for Sunday!!


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

I know,right. My Mutz is supposed to be delivered on Monday, I hope it is not delayed. Blidner where do you ride? I am also in New England, transplant from CA, new to riding in this area.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

You get your Mutz from likin bikin?

Ride 90 percent of the time in wompatuck in Hingham

Close to where I live
Great reading there


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

I got the Mutz from Timberline in CO, great guys. Never been Wompatuck. I am near Worcester and have my kids with me most of the time. I want to check out Vietnam though it is fairly close to me. Sounds like a fun area to ride.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I've heard it's lots of rocks and drops

A rode with a guy in needham town forest who rides it


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

That is what I heard too. Probably to much for my kids.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> I am done with the Cane Creek Inline. I'm on my 3rd one in 3 months and now its doing the same thing. It packs up and bottoms out. Then when I get off the bike it wont fully extend. I called Cane Creek and they said they have had a ton returned off of the Mutz and they don't know why.
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with their CC Inline?


Mis-alignment would probably do it, causing drag and probably eating at the seal between the positive and negative chambers, add to that the frame-stiffness of Foes, which wouldn't have much "give". Really, if it's 3 shocks, doing the same thing, only with this frame, that's got to be it.


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

Foes has different dropout!
For RS, Shimano,... One sure still fits?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Mis-alignment would probably do it, causing drag and probably eating at the seal between the positive and negative chambers, add to that the frame-stiffness of Foes, which wouldn't have much "give". Really, if it's 3 shocks, doing the same thing, only with this frame, that's got to be it.


The first shock stuck down before the bike was even ridden. The 2nd shock made it 2 rides. The 3rd shock made it 2 months.

We let all the air out and cycled it through the stroke and its smooth as butter. The shock goes in perfectly. There is no misalignment that we can tell.

Eric at Cane Creek said that they have had more Inlines come back from the Mutz than any other frame. The Specialized Enduro and Ibis HD are the other 2 bikes eating them... according to Cane Creek. They can not figure out why.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

11053 said:


> Fox FLOAT EVOL DPS is the ticket on the Mutz for me.
> I've run CCDBA's on other bikes and I am familiar with all iterations of CCDBAs-inline, climbs switch etc.
> FOX FLOAT EVOL is a great match for the Mutz.
> Absolutely one of the best frame + shock combos I've ridden in 30+ years of mtb.
> ...


I totally agree! I tried the Mutz With CC DB air w/CS and extra volume can, until it just broke Down in the coldest days a couple of months ago, actually my friend With same bike and shock got also a brake Down on his CC DB the same week. I got to try the Fox FLOAT EVOL DPS and I do not turn back. I have got back the CC DB from full service and it can not come Close to the Fox FLOAT EVOL DPS. The Fox sits much higher in the stroke when climbing, and I can tell you that I need the shock to bee good With my weight at 250lbs+. I can run the Fox FLOAT EVOL DPS in open mode all day long, when just getting exhausted after a few climbs with the CC DB even with climb switch on. I have tried to tune the CC with more compression in low speed, but I am just ending up with to much air pressure, and the shock is not so plush any more. The Fox is just so plush, and if you need to run miles at the ski track or the road, you cannot get a better lock out than the Fox got (it is a mechanical lockout).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> The first shock stuck down before the bike was even ridden. The 2nd shock made it 2 rides. The 3rd shock made it 2 months.
> 
> We let all the air out and cycled it through the stroke and its smooth as butter. The shock goes in perfectly. There is no misalignment that we can tell.
> 
> Eric at Cane Creek said that they have had more Inlines come back from the Mutz than any other frame. The Specialized Enduro and Ibis HD are the other 2 bikes eating them... according to Cane Creek. They can not figure out why.


Like Jayem said, it does sound like a frame issue. If the Float goes down, you might want to look into that.

I like my CCI, no issues in cold, works great. I suppose I'd also like the Float, but it's not worth dropping a bunch of coin to replace something that works. Now if we were talking about a Bluto, yeah, it'd be gone.

I remember when the CCI came out and it was all the rage, yawn, new bling is just so much prettier


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Like Jayem said, it does sound like a frame issue. If the Float goes down, you might want to look into that.
> 
> I like my CCI, no issues in cold, works great. I suppose I'd also like the Float, but it's not worth dropping a bunch of coin to replace something that works. Now if we were talking about a Bluto, yeah, it'd be gone.
> 
> I remember when the CCI came out and it was all the rage, yawn, new bling is just so much prettier


The first shock on the bike didn't even make it one ride. I built the bike, rode it out in the street, and bounced on it. It stuck 1/2 way down and stayed. The second Inline made it two rides and did the same thing. The third shock made it a couple hundred miles in 2 months and did the same thing. I called Cane Creek and they told me they are having a ton of the Inlines come back from Mutz owners. That doesn't sound like a issue with my frame.


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

250+ lbs here love my fox rear shock - only have about 2 hours on it


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

a63vette said:


> 250+ lbs here love my fox rear shock - only have about 2 hours on it
> View attachment 1058617


:thumbsup: I am 250+ and I can confirm you did the right Choice for rear shock. You will love it. Put it in open and choose platform 3, and you can ride all day long


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Anyone running a CCDB Air? What air pressures and settings are you running? 
Cane Creek let me pay to upgrade from my Inline.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

kntr said:


> Anyone running a CCDB Air? What air pressures and settings are you running?
> Cane Creek let me pay to upgrade from my Inline.


I needed to have 150psi to get it to work.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I sent you a message with more detail, but at 245lbs loaded up, I run 180psi. Use the lounge for a mid tune and play from there. Do the step by step instructions.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

So I got my wife a mutz yesterday, since I was tired of her stealing mine all the time. Hers is set up with an Inline, 1x10 X9, Hope brakes, and a Bluto. Coming off a Wren on my mutz, I forgot how awful the Bluto was. Since it was used, I think it was not in the best shape. 

Since it is a RL, do you think its smarter getting it serviced and having the RCT3 damper installed, or just buy a new Bluto with RCT3? 


And to get on the fat for soapbox again, I wish a 140mm Fat Pike was made, I would much rather put that on there for her.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

JCHKeys, if you are mechanically inclined the Bluto is very easy to rebuild yourself. I picked up an RCT3 damper off Amazon for $110 and a full rebuild kit was another $25 or so. Takes about an hour. No need to buy a brand new one unless the inner legs are scratched up. 
As bad as the Bluto is compared to other forks I've had I can still haul ass on my Mutz, I can only imagine how good it would be with a better fork.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

tvan said:


> JCHKeys, if you are mechanically inclined the Bluto is very easy to rebuild yourself. I picked up an RCT3 damper off Amazon for $110 and a full rebuild kit was another $25 or so. Takes about an hour. No need to buy a brand new one unless the inner legs are scratched up.
> As bad as the Bluto is compared to other forks I've had I can still haul ass on my Mutz, I can only imagine how good it would be with a better fork.


A lot of uncertainty that I am finding the right kit, do you happen to have the part numbers of the rebuild kit and RCT3 damper kit. Thanks.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

JCHKeys said:


> So I got my wife a mutz yesterday, since I was tired of her stealing mine all the time. Hers is set up with an Inline, 1x10 X9, Hope brakes, and a Bluto. Coming off a Wren on my mutz, I forgot how awful the Bluto was. Since it was used, I think it was not in the best shape.
> 
> Since it is a RL, do you think its smarter getting it serviced and having the RCT3 damper installed, or just buy a new Bluto with RCT3?
> 
> And to get on the fat for soapbox again, I wish a 140mm Fat Pike was made, I would much rather put that on there for her.


Okay, I give, why did you buy a Bluto?

Ya know crappy forks don't get better with age, they just get crappier


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi fellow Mutz owners. I received my Mutz last week and am building a set of 27.5+ wheels for it. Wheels are Nextie jungle foxes with Onyx hubs. What do you all recommend for a plus tire? I am in MA so mixed terrain with lots a roots. I also plan to go to a couple bike parks this summer.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Skarecrow said:


> Hi fellow Mutz owners. I received my Mutz last week and am building a set of 27.5+ wheels for it. Wheels are Nextie jungle foxes with Onyx hubs. What do you all recommend for a plus tire? I am in MA so mixed terrain with lots a roots. I also plan to go to a couple bike parks this summer.


Durable, heavy, TL ready: WTB Trail Boss 3.0
Less durable, less heavy, kinda TL ready: Specialized Purgatory

What fork and shock did you pick?


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

I got the wren fork and cane creek inline shock.









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Way cool looking rig

I'm running the 3.0 nobby nics here in Boston and enjoying them

They do pick up a lot of mud however


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Durable, heavy, TL ready: WTB Trail Boss 3.0
> Less durable, less heavy, kinda TL ready: Specialized Purgatory
> 
> What fork and shock did you pick?


I was looking at the Pugatory, can't beat the price. You say kinda TL. Did you install them TL? How difficult was it?


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

blidner said:


> Way cool looking rig
> 
> I'm running the 3.0 nobby nics here in Boston and enjoying them
> 
> They do pick up a lot of mud however


Thx Blidner, I am really happy with how it turned out. Now I need to get on the trails!


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

I was able to get part numbers from Rockshox website. I believe the damper was the same as the Reba. If I can find the bags they came in I will post numbers here later


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

Does anybody know if it's possible to run a zero stack headset on the Mutz. This would allow a longer travel fork like the Wren 150mm to fit without raising the front end too much. I am still considering trying a 27plus rear and 29plus front and the zero stack would be key in keeping the geometry correct especially if I run a longer travel fork as well.

***to answer my own question, after speaking with Mike at Timberline, I decided to give the 27/29 plus setup a try. It might be a few weeks before I can get all the parts needed but it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for and I can still run 4" tires in winter. 
Mutz cannot utilize zero stack headset and Mike recommended using an offset headset to correct head tube angle if and when I go with a longer travel fork. I will most likely get a Fox 34 Plus fork since it can fit both 29plus and most 4" tires on 65mm rims. Planning on running Dually rims and 3"Dirt Wizard tires front and rear.


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

Love it.


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

Mutz Magura MT7 "Raceline" in the forest


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

tvan said:


> Does anybody know if it's possible to run a zero stack headset on the Mutz. This would allow a longer travel fork like the Wren 150mm to fit without raising the front end too much. I am still considering trying a 27plus rear and 29plus front and the zero stack would be key in keeping the geometry correct especially if I run a longer travel fork as well.
> 
> ***to answer my own question, after speaking with Mike at Timberline, I decided to give the 27/29 plus setup a try. It might be a few weeks before I can get all the parts needed but it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for and I can still run 4" tires in winter.
> Mutz cannot utilize zero stack headset and Mike recommended using an offset headset to correct head tube angle if and when I go with a longer travel fork. I will most likely get a Fox 34 Plus fork since it can fit both 29plus and most 4" tires on 65mm rims. Planning on running Dually rims and 3"Dirt Wizard tires front and rear.


Get an Angleset, you can reduce by 1/2 to 1 degree.

29+ works on the front end, I tried it. You could also reduce travel on the front end to drop height, of course who wants to reduce travel 

The Wren 150 will clear 29+ Dirt Wizard with 1/2" to spare, no travel reduction necessary.

Don't get Duallys, they are low quality and poorly finished. For the same money you can get the Scrapers, I have two sets, they work well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

a63vette said:


> View attachment 1061519
> 
> 
> Love it.


Cool looking bike!

I love all the color combos folks are running, makes me jealous, all I have is boring red


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Skarecrow said:


> I was looking at the Pugatory, can't beat the price. You say kinda TL. Did you install them TL? How difficult was it?


I ran them TL only, they set up easy, but they burped a fair bit in the beginning, then sealed fine. They had quite a bit of sidewall seepage, though the casing took a fair beating over the summer and did fine.

For the weight, price, and function, the Purgs are good tires. I still have my set, send me a PM if you want them.

I went to the Trail Boss 3.0 to get more durability; of course the cost is more weight.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Skarecrow said:


> I got the wren fork and cane creek inline shock.


Where's your dropper?


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Where's your dropper?


Soon I think. I have never used one and am trying to decide if it is worth the investment. I am planning to hit a couple bike parks this summer so I need to decide. First need to finish my wheels. Hoping to build this weekend.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Skarecrow said:


> Soon I think. I have never used one and am trying to decide if it is worth the investment. I am planning to hit a couple bike parks this summer so I need to decide. First need to finish my wheels. Hoping to build this weekend.


A dropper is worth every penny, I have 5 reverbs between my bikes and my wife's bikes. Reliability is so so, I have had a few rebuilt, but they really expand your riding... unless you are just cranking along rail/trails.... which a mutz should never be made to do... it wants to jump and drop...


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## banditpowdercoat (Aug 13, 2015)

Just got a giant contact for my stumpy and in the 3 rides I did, I freakin love it!!! 


Sent from my iPhone while my Heli plays with the gophers


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

Looking to upgrade suspension. Will most likely go with a Fox 34plus in front since it will fit all wheel sizes I'm interested in trying but I was looking for some feedback on rear shocks. I have used CC DBair in the past and loved it but I'm wondering if it's better to try upgrading to the evol can on my current Fox shock. I don't feel the shock is that bad right now but I feel the bike is more capable than the current suspension allows. I'm 185lbs and ride pretty much everything, drops included so not interested in the CC inline.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok. Good to know, I'm upgrading a bunch of other parts to save weight and will wait to decide on what to do with wheels. There are so many choices


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

tvan said:


> Looking to upgrade suspension. Will most likely go with a Fox 34plus in front since it will fit all wheel sizes I'm interested in trying but I was looking for some feedback on rear shocks. I have used CC DBair in the past and loved it but I'm wondering if it's better to try upgrading to the evol can on my current Fox shock. I don't feel the shock is that bad right now but I feel the bike is more capable than the current suspension allows. I'm 185lbs and ride pretty much everything, drops included so not interested in the CC inline.


What's wrong with the cc inline for drops?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Skarecrow said:


> What's wrong with the cc inline for drops?


Nothing, it's just not the newest thing.

Mine works great.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Get an Angleset, you can reduce by 1/2 to 1 degree.
> 
> .


Are Anyone using angle set on the Mutz? Is it a big difference to on the 150mm Wren?


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

To me it is the newest thing, I've had 2 DB airs and loved them so I see no reason to switch it up now. Aside from weight and price, what would be the advantage of the inline?
Overall I'd prefer to spend a lot less and upgrade my Fox if it will make a noticeable improvement.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What size is the shock on the Mutz?


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

kntr said:


> What size is the shock on the Mutz?


216 x 63mm


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I used one on my tandem, not using one on the Mutz though I expect I'll add one to reduce front end wandering at slow speeds.

Slack is not a bad thing, esp with a long CS.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> Are Anyone using angle set on the Mutz? Is it a big difference to on the 150mm Wren?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Are Anyone using angle set on the Mutz? Is it a big difference to on the 150mm Wren?


I have a works components - 1 angleset in mine. I'm currently only using a 120mm bluto, but I don't feel like it's anywhere near too slack

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

So is the general consensus that a Fox Float Evol is the best rear shock for the Mutz?


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

kntr said:


> So is the general consensus that a Fox Float Evol is the best rear shock for the Mutz?


I'll be testing a Rock Shox Monarch plus Debon Air!


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

kntr said:


> So is the general consensus that a Fox Float Evol is the best rear shock for the Mutz?


I don't know if it's a consensus, I saw a couple guys say they liked them.

I've never tried one, bought my frame with a CC DB CS XV
for a couple hundred extra. It has been doing well from the beginning and I have no complaints it shocks like a shock should. I was once a motorcycle suspension guy so I like the extra fiddly bits.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nefariousd said:


> I don't know if it's a consensus, I saw a couple guys say they liked them.
> 
> I've never tried one, bought my frame with a CC DB CS XV
> for a couple hundred extra. It has been doing well from the beginning and I have no complaints it shocks like a shock should. I was once a motorcycle suspension guy so I like the extra fiddly bits.


I liked my CC DB CS XV until i broke down in the coldest days, and I thought I had the best shock for my Mutz. I got the Fox EVOL 2016 from my LB and I did not believe that it could be so much better. I filled it with air, and adjusted the rebound, and has been never wanted to use the CC DB CS XV or other shocks. The CC DB CS XV came back from service and I put it back, but I could not like it. The Fox is so good and make the bike sitting so much higher in the stroke then the CC DB CS XV. It is extremely good in the adjustment, much better then the previous CDT that fox had. The locking position is a mechanical locking mode, and is actually locking the shock, the trail mode is really good and is the ideal postion in climbing, really plush in the mid stroke. The open mode is just open, but has 3 platforms that actually works really good. You can be using the shock in platform 3, doing all kinds of riding, climbing and downhill.

The CC DB CS XV is just too complicated for my use. I want the adjustment utility when sitting on the bike riding. Not interested in stopping and using tools to adjust the shock, like CC DB CS XV.

If I was doing bike park riding with really heavy drops, the CC DB CS XV
is probably the best choice. I might love the CC DB Coil CS XV, but I will probably not be interested to try it.

The Fox seems also cold weather proof, and the CC is not.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> s
> 
> The CC DB CS XV is just too complicated for my use. I want the adjustment utility when sitting on the bike riding. Not interested in stopping and using tools to adjust the shock, like CC DB CS XV.


Whatever, there is still not a consensus.

The Cane Creek, wasn't for you, you couldn't get a handle on it, whatever. Just because you happen to like the Fox doesn't mean it's the best shock, it's all very subjective.

When I said I was a motorcycle suspension guy I meant more specifically that I'm an engineering degree possessing person that owned a business that paid all my bills by understanding and manipulating fluid flow to get the desired results for myself and my clients. In Fact I was an authorized Fox service center and I really like those guys.

Personally I like the Cane creek double barrel (not the inline) this does not mean I'm saying saying the Cane Creek is the best. All I'm saying is that I like the ability to control the circuits independently.

Probably it might be a bad choice for some people like you that admittedly don't want to take the time to dial it in. But you can't dispute it's flexibility and precision.

98% of the people that road race motorcycles can't use or appreciate the awesomeness that a $30K Ohlins fork and shock package brings to the party, so to each there own.

I was specifically addressing the fact that there really isn't a consensus not saying the CC was superior in all cases.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I ended up ordering a Fox Evol. I'm just a Fox guy. I'm trying to build a super light Mutz for summer riding and think the Fox will suit me better.

I have a brand new CCDB air CS with hardware for sale for cheap.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

kntr said:


> I ended up ordering a Fox Evol. I'm just a Fox guy. I'm trying to build a super light Mutz for summer riding and think the Fox will suit me better.
> 
> I have a brand new CCDB air CS with hardware for sale for cheap.


If it's not the inline I'm interested pm me details


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nefariousd said:


> If it's not the inline I'm interested pm me details


Sorry sold it.

What size hardware do I order for the Fox?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm thinking about selling my Mutz as a rolling chassis, size large, color red: 

150mm x 150mm Wren fork, CC Inline shock, 26 x 4" Onyx/Scraper/JJ 4.0 wheelset, possibly a dropper and some RF Cinch cranks...

Great bike, just thinking about going a different direction.

Inquire within:


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm thinking about selling my Mutz as a rolling chassis, size large, color red:
> 
> 150mm x 150mm Wren fork, CC Inline shock, 26 x 4" Onyx/Scraper/JJ 4.0 wheelset, possibly a dropper and some RF Cinch cranks...
> 
> ...


What kind of bike are you looking at now? What size is the Mutz and what kind of price are you looking at?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> What kind of bike are you looking at now? What size is the Mutz and what kind of price are you looking at?


Not sure what comes next.

PM for pricing. I prefer to sell the frame/fork/shock, keeping the wheels or selling them seperately. Parts is parts, I hate losing money selling parts as I can use them again.

Frame is size Large, color Red, no damage other than typical scuffs. The Wren 150 x 150 Fork is new, no issues, under warranty. I'm sure Wren will continue to be very supportive of their products, so no worries.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

I've just ordered a Wren for my Mutz (now distributed in the UK by Cranknuts) and am wondering about travel/head angles. For the people out there with Wren experience, are you running the full 150 travel (I was thinking 140) and am I going to want/need an angleset?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I am running the wren at 150, which does make the HTA slack, I will measure it tonight, as well as measure my wife's mutz with a Bluto to give you its HTA as a comparison.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

brownmruk said:


> I've just ordered a Wren for my Mutz (now distributed in the UK by Cranknuts) and am wondering about travel/head angles. For the people out there with Wren experience, are you running the full 150 travel (I was thinking 140) and am I going to want/need an angleset?


You can run 150, 130, or 120. There is a clip being developed that will allow for 140, but it has not been released.

150 is tall, but only when compared to 120. After riding mine hard for a week in the high desert, it's not a problem
.. as long as you like slack bikes.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for that NB - hadn't realised 140 wasn't an option yet. Going by the old rule of thumb, It should be about 2 degrees slacker than with the Bluto, which sounds a lot. Then again, it doesn't feel slack at all with the Bluto. Guess I'll just try it and see.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

I put a 140 Boost Pike on with my 3" summer wheels today and it feels proper and well balanced between 25 and 30% sag


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Just got my Fox Float Evol on. How are people setting the Fox up? It seems like I need to run a lot less air pressure than the Inline. Help.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

brownmruk said:


> Thanks for that NB - hadn't realized 140 wasn't an option yet. Going by the old rule of thumb, It should be about 2 degrees slacker than with the Bluto, which sounds a lot. Then again, it doesn't feel slack at all with the Bluto. Guess I'll just try it and see.


Minus 1.5 degrees going from 120mm to 150mm. It is pretty durn slack, great for DH, a little doggy in tight stuff, some front end push going into flat turns, a little front end wandering when climbing. Honestly, I liked the handling better with 120mm (67 deg HTA), but I wanted more travel and a burlier fork.

So, I have a new lower headset cup on order, an internal vs the external CC I'm using now, this will lower my front end 10mm, increasing the HTA by 0.5deg. Then, once the 10mm reduction base clip is available I'll reduce the Wren to 140mm travel/A-C, which will net another 0.5 deg increase, which will leave me sitting pretty at ~66.5 deg 

If only the back end had a sliding drop, I would so love to have the option of pulling my rear wheel in tighter for 27+ and pushing it out for 29+.

I never heard back from Foes about getting a longer rear triangle, I think they're covered up with the Alpine builds.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

kntr said:


> Just got my Fox Float Evol on. How are people setting the Fox up? It seems like I need to run a lot less air pressure than the Inline. Help.


Initial set up is quick and easy.
Follow the FOX instructions.
http://www.ridefox.com/2016/dl/bike/605-00-139-FLOAT-DPS-Tuning-Guide-white-revA.pdf

Depending on how precisely you measure sag, you can expect a range of air pressures that will appear to give almost the same amount of sag, but will feel very different on the trail.
Easily +/- 10psi to tune in the feel you like once you're close to the sag you want.

Get in the ballpark to start and then adjust after some trail time.

There will be noticeable difference between the 3 compression settings.
There will be noticeable difference between the fine tuning settings in open mode.

28% sag by my measurements and medium compression work well for all my riding.
I rarely put the firm compression setting on.
Full open sees use depending on terrain and speed.

I found the FOX rebound recommendations to be a good place to start for whatever PSI you end up running.

My Mutz is in 5" rear travel mode.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Let's talk cranks!

I'm running RF Turbine Cinch, direct mount 1x. I have two spacers and ~15mm on the brake side clearance and one spacer and ~10mm clearance on the drive side.

I'd like to tighten things up a bit, so I'm curious what cranks folks are using and if anyone has found a crank/BB that fits tight to frame; ie arm to chainstay.

I would love to fit 165mm cranks and narrow the spacing by 10mm.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

11053 said:


> Initial set up is quick and easy.
> Follow the FOX instructions.
> http://www.ridefox.com/2016/dl/bike/605-00-139-FLOAT-DPS-Tuning-Guide-white-revA.pdf
> 
> ...


I weigh about 180 and 180 psi is way too much pressure. I have to run about 160 psi to get 30% sag. Does that sound about right?


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

kntr said:


> I weigh about 180 and 180 psi is way too much pressure. I have to run about 160 psi to get 30% sag. Does that sound about right?


Shock pumps vary in accuracy.
Body position can influence perceived sag.
Lots of variables.
Just go off of sag initially and then adjust to preference on the trail.
But yes, psi below body weight for me as well.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Let's talk cranks!
> 
> I'm running RF Turbine Cinch, direct mount 1x. I have two spacers and ~15mm on the brake side clearance and one spacer and ~10mm clearance on the drive side.
> 
> ...


I'm running SRAM GX 1000 1x11. I have 7mm clearance on the brake side and 10mm on the drive side. That is measuring to the chainstay itself- the gap is 2mm narrower on both sides where the weld is. I am pretty sure there is a spacer each side but will check next time I take it off.
It's a cheap and cheerful crank but I have no complaints about the performance. It does have an odd design issue though - when fitted correctly there is a 2-3mm gap (exposed spindle) between the ds bearing cover and the inner face of the spider. Although odd, this Googles as normal. The problem is the ds bearing cover is also a bushing between the spindle and the bearing and it can work its way out in to the gap, causing play. Easily solved with a couple of O-rings but why SRAM don't point this out or supply some sort of flexible spacer is a mystery to me.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just spoke with Race Face, they told me that the Next SL crank would decrease my Q Factor by 10mm over the RF Turbine Cinch, which is nearly a 1/2", but it's $300 or more clams... it's a good thing I "need" a crankset for my hardtail fatty build 

Now for some narrower pedlas 

Also, I just spoke with Russ at Wren, he says the new 10mm fork spacer and new TA are nearly done. No details on the TA, but he said it was stronger. The new 10mm spacer will serve as a "base" spacer, whcih means it can be used at teh top to reduce travel or at the bottom to reduce travel and A-C. It will work in the 110mm and 150mm travel forks.

Narrower and lower, but still plenty of travel, I might not be looking at giving up the Mutz so soon.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Crank update: I mounted up some Next SL cranks, RF bb, 177 spindle, chain guard and one spacer drive side, two spacers non drive side, clearance at the welds is ~4mm. I had just enough space remaining to tighten the adjusting nut ~1 turn.

Can't get much better than that!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Crank update: I mounted up some Next SL cranks, RF bb, 177 spindle, chain guard and one spacer drive side, two spacers non drive side, clearance at the welds is ~4mm. I had just enough space remaining to tighten the adjusting nut ~1 turn.
> 
> Can't get much better than that!


Pics?


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Neat! I hope you have dainty feet.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

brownmruk said:


> Neat! I hope you have dainty feet.


Nope, size 13's, never have a problem, decreasing the Q will be just the thing to narrow thigs up, next step is getting narrower width platforms pedals that are still deep enough to support.

I finally found a stiff soled shoe (Specialied 2FO) so I no longer get sore feet on long rides.

Sorry, no pics, clearance is about half of what I had with the Turbine Cinch, so ~5mm per side at the welds.

I also reduced my suspension travel to 130mm front/130 rear (5"), so even though I have the 29+ up front and 10mm more suspension that stock (Bluto 120mm), the angleset has me durn near 67 deg at the HT. Honestly, I liked it at 66 degree 

As I make these tweaks, I try to keep track of where I've been in terms of settings and feel. So far my favorite "feel" has been at 150mm/140mm travel, 66-66.5 HTA, angleset +1 deg, 29+/27+. What I didn't like about this setup was the stack.

At my current set up, I think I could use another 10mm of fork travel (waiting in the 10mm reduction base clip from Wren), maybe go back to 140mm of shock travel (130mm feels pretty good), and I'd consider ditching the angleset to reduce stack.

Oh, and I won't be going back to a 27+ up front, I guess I just didn't relaize how much I missed my big front wheel 

Did anyone say Mixer? Yeah, I'm leaning that way...


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Would an Olaf work on a mutz?

I appreciate its 100mm so that's a slight adjustment but would the fit be right?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I put a SID on the front of a Kona Stinky... it didn't work....

Sorry, that was just too easy to be an A$$. that much of a mismatch in travel and purpose will not result in an enjoyable bike to ride.



blidner said:


> Would an Olaf work on a mutz?
> 
> I appreciate its 100mm so that's a slight adjustment but would the fit be right?


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I suspected that was the answer but thought I'd toss it out to this Mutz think tank!

Appreciate the quick response

I can refocus my obsession now


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

blidner said:


> Would an Olaf work on a mutz?
> 
> I appreciate its 100mm so that's a slight adjustment but would the fit be right?


Anything would work, but you'd be dragging the BB.

The Mutz is a 5-5.5" travel bike, so a 130-140 fork is the best fit. I ran a 150mm Wren for a while, it worked fine, but I felt a bit choppered out. When I added a 29+ frot wheel I also added an angleset which returned the HTA to normal, but the STA was too slack and the stack was excessive.

I just dropped the fork to 130mm, reduced the travel to 5" in back, and removed the angleset, so far that feels pretty good. I am still running a 29+ up front, liking that mixed feel.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Nurse Ben - Did you notice if the chainline moved when you fitted the Next SLs? I see you are running 29+ now. Do you think that crank would be OK with a 4.5" tyre in the back.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The chainline moved in 5mm or so, not sure about tire clearance, but the chain is now inside the chainstay by half it's thickness, so 2-3mm inside of the weld. For sure it'd clear a 4" tire.

27.5 x 3 in back, 29 x 3 in front.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

So after a year on a bluto i may have finally broken it (it's probably an easy fix). Maybe the universe it telling me to buy a new fork. I'm currently enjoying a b plus setup. As much as I don't want to relace the wheel it's likely my fate. What do folks recommend??


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

blidner said:


> So after a year on a bluto i may have finally broken it (it's probably an easy fix). Maybe the universe it telling me to buy a new fork. I'm currently enjoying a b plus setup. As much as I don't want to relace the wheel it's likely my fate. What do folks recommend??


I love my Wren. I have used it in an enduro race, at the bike park, and long XC rides. The fork is the best available fat fork.


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

I think you did well to get a year out of it. My 120mm Bluto lasted 5 months before I traded it for a new one through the warranty because of a loose stanchion and more worryingly, a loose steerer. Strangely, I have a 100mm Bluto on another bike that is still sort of working after 2 years. I have a 150mm Wren wrapped up waiting for my Birthday in a few days time and I can't wait to try it. I don't really see much alternative to the Wren at the moment if you want to keep your options open on wheel wheel/tyre size. Obviously there is the Fox but that is a bit more restrictive on tyre size.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

brownmruk said:


> I think you did well to get a year out of it. My 120mm Bluto lasted 5 months before I traded it for a new one through the warranty because of a loose stanchion and more worryingly, a loose steerer. Strangely, I have a 100mm Bluto on another bike that is still sort of working after 2 years. I have a 150mm Wren wrapped up waiting for my Birthday in a few days time and I can't wait to try it. I don't really see much alternative to the Wren at the moment if you want to keep your options open on wheel wheel/tyre size. Obviously there is the Fox but that is a bit more restrictive on tyre size.


Congrats on the Wren.... don't forget to act surprised when you open it....


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

A local shop loaned me a demo stumpy Fattie

Looking forward to trying out 150mm of travel on the fox fit4. At 140mm that could be the ticket for Mutz


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I pounded the snot out of my Wren for a week in the southwest, no issues. Then this past weekend I did a big day at Tiger Mountain: Off the Grid, Full Rigid, Silent Swamp, etc... The last time I rode big at Tiger, it was with the Bluto, what a huge improvement.

I think the Wren is a pretty sweet riding fork, all things considered. I wouldn't drop a dime on a Bluto.

Still rocking the CC inline, no issues, works great.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I would love to have 29plus up front on the Mutz. But I consider it is no tire that is good enough. Waiting for a 3" schwalbe with trailstar compound. I mean no other tires can match that compound. On wet ruts and rocks, 27+ with Schwalbe trail compound will beat all 29+ with currently available tires.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Maxxis will have some by the end of the summer. I am planning to upgrade my FXR to a plus bike, with a maxxis DHF 3.0 up front and a HR II 2.8 in the rear. 

Just wait and more tires will roll out soon enough.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

JCHKeys said:


> Maxxis will have some by the end of the summer. I am planning to upgrade my FXR to a plus bike, with a maxxis DHF 3.0 up front and a HR II 2.8 in the rear.
> 
> Just wait and more tires will roll out soon enough.


Maxxis is the second best alternative. There is not so good rubber compound, but the knobs are more aggressive.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I would love to have 29plus up front on the Mutz. But I consider it is no tire that is good enough. Waiting for a 3" schwalbe with trailstar compound. I mean no other tires can match that compound. On wet ruts and rocks, 27+ with Schwalbe trail compound will beat all 29+ with currently available tires.


The Dirt Wizard is awesome! I ride it up front with the Wren at 130mm travel, out back I have a WTB Trail Boss 3.0 with a CCI at 5", great combo, no burping issues, excellent traction, front carves like it's on a rail, back hooks up well, but is easy to break free on tight stuff.

I rode mine the last two weekends on steep gnarly West Cascade trails and up in BC's Fraser Valley. It'd be tough to beat the carvability of the Dirt Wizard for a front tire.


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

I am using the trail Boss up front and Bomboloni on the rear and really like it so far. Very easy to seat tubeless with floor pump as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I put a CCDB Coil on last night, just to try it out. It came with the explicit warning from a friend that I will like it so much more, I wont want to put the CCDB Air CS back on... and he was dead on. With a 450lb spring, the bike felt so much better, specially on the jumps and hard hits. If you are riding your Mutz at bike parks, or where it is stupid rough, then really consider picking one of these up...

CC has hinted that they are developing a hollow spring to significantly reduce the weight, just like Fox did. If they do pull it off, a CCDB Coil CS will be on my mutz permanently....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

JCHKeys said:


> I put a CCDB Coil on last night, just to try it out. It came with the explicit warning from a friend that I will like it so much more, I wont want to put the CCDB Air CS back on... and he was dead on. With a 450lb spring, the bike felt so much better, specially on the jumps and hard hits. If you are riding your Mutz at bike parks, or where it is stupid rough, then really consider picking one of these up...
> 
> CC has hinted that they are developing a hollow spring to significantly reduce the weight, just like Fox did. If they do pull it off, a CCDB Coil CS will be on my mutz permanently....


Yeah, it has crossed my mind, cuz I do ride some rough stuff.

How much did it set you back? How did you determine spring size?

What is needed is a CF spring.

Why not get the Fox?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I got a used one off of Pinkbike for... Well I got a deal from a guy selling a 8.5 and a 9.5, I got bothe with two springs each for $400. One is now on my FXR. 

I used the fit finder and spring finder links on Cane Creeks website to help me know what to do. 

I didn't go with fox because their lever system just came out and it not as proven as the CC one. Also, I try to support USA small firms.

I will give a ride report when the trails come above the water again. It rained in Maryland 18 days straight.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Dirt Wizard is awesome! I ride it up front with the Wren at 130mm travel, out back I have a WTB Trail Boss 3.0 with a CCI at 5", great combo, no burping issues, excellent traction, front carves like it's on a rail, back hooks up well, but is easy to break free on tight stuff.
> 
> I rode mine the last two weekends on steep gnarly West Cascade trails and up in BC's Fraser Valley. It'd be tough to beat the carvability of the Dirt Wizard for a front tire.


I believe you when looking at the Surly Dirt Wizard it has aggressive knobs. Almost like a Scwhalbe tire. But to my concern the Surly rubber compound is not the best though. Today it has been raining here in my tracks and suddenly all ruts and rocks that where negotiable before needs to be tackled. Just so happy to run sticky rubber when the rain comes.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, it has crossed my mind, cuz I do ride some rough stuff.
> 
> How much did it set you back? How did you determine spring size?
> 
> ...


Curious about using a coil on the Mutz. Talked to Cane Creek the other day, about that and they asked about the suspension how it should work with a coil, they talked about if the suspension design might be suited for an air spring rather then a coil, and that it could be progressive suspension in the start and that it could be ramping up in the end of the travel? Do anyone know if this is the case with the suspension design for the Mutz, and if it is designed for an air spring?


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## syntheticreality (Jan 15, 2013)

Could those of you running the CC DBA XV post the tubes you've had success with? I just installed mine tonight and I'm wondering if I need some volume spacers.










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

syntheticreality said:


> Could those of you running the CC DBA XV post the tubes you've had success with? I just installed mine tonight and I'm wondering if I need some volume spacers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,

Is that a 36 you have in the front ? 27,5 or 29 version ? Is there enough room for the tire ?

Thanks

Steve


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

JCHKeys said:


> I put a CCDB Coil on last night, just to try it out. It came with the explicit warning from a friend that I will like it so much more, I wont want to put the CCDB Air CS back on... and he was dead on. With a 450lb spring, the bike felt so much better, specially on the jumps and hard hits. If you are riding your Mutz at bike parks, or where it is stupid rough, then really consider picking one of these up...
> 
> CC has hinted that they are developing a hollow spring to significantly reduce the weight, just like Fox did. If they do pull it off, a CCDB Coil CS will be on my mutz permanently....


How does the coil feel on roots and rocks, and is it good when climbing?


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## syntheticreality (Jan 15, 2013)

pit said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is that a 36 you have in the front ? 27,5 or 29 version ? Is there enough room for the tire ?
> 
> ...


Actually, it's a 34 take-off from a Speccy 6fattie whatever. It's 27.5 650b boost. Those are 4.0 tires on 65mm rims and the fit is not spacious but comfortable. The ride quality is GREAT!


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> How does the coil feel on roots and rocks, and is it good when climbing?


Only riding the trail on my property, with minimal roots and rocks, it felt much better. It glues the wheel to the ground even better, I am still tuning it. As anyone with a CCDB knows, tuning takes a while... I think I am going to give it another turn of preload to reduce sag a bit, and play more. This weekend will be the first real trail tests.

If you have a 150mm Wren, this is such a superior shock if you are going to get ROWDY. It does weigh more, I am now pushing over 38lbs. If an alloy or hollow spring comes out, the CS version of the shock is what I will be getting. The fox lever shock is attractive though....


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I did a new try on the CCDB XV w/CS. Tried to go up to 180psi to get the shock to sit higher on travel. The shock got to firm and I did turn off all compression both LC and HC. Just to see how it reacted. The shock absorbs small bumps, but still to firm on higher speed downhill. Also using to little travel. I have not been doing crazy stuff so I guess I should not use all travel. Tried to low down to 170psi, then the shock sits to low in travel. The shock have been serviced so it should be technically good.


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## syntheticreality (Jan 15, 2013)

It sounds like you need less pressure and some volume spacers

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

syntheticreality said:


> It sounds like you need less pressure and some volume spacers
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Okay I thought I needed to remove volume spacers......how difficult is it to do that yourself????


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## syntheticreality (Jan 15, 2013)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Okay I thought I needed to remove volume spacers......how difficult is it to do that yourself????


Maybe I do have it backwards, but I assumed it came with no spacers installed. Also, most "modern" frames aren't modern enough yet because they don't have the proper leverage ratios to work with all the new high volume shocks. Most high volume shocks come "tuned" on bikes with volume spacers added. This means they are just reversing the "extra volume" because the suspension isn't really designed for it. I could be wrong, but that's just what I've gleaned from chatting with one of the most reputable suspension tuners in the industry on the phone. I won't name names just in case I am incorrectly paraphrasing.

That particular gentleman told me usually you are having to add too much pressure to get the sag you want and it makes the shock rock hard, so in the end you have to add spacers.

I think there are instructions online to do it and I think it's supposed to be easy enough for the average home garage mechanic.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Maybe it should get more progressive from the start of the stroke also. Not only in the end of the travel. Therefore the it could be a solution to put in spacers, and then reduce the pressure and still obtain the travel?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I did a new try on the CCDB XV w/CS. Tried to go up to 180psi to get the shock to sit higher on travel. The shock got to firm and I did turn off all compression both LC and HC. Just to see how it reacted. The shock absorbs small bumps, but still to firm on higher speed downhill. Also using to little travel. I have not been doing crazy stuff so I guess I should not use all travel. Tried to low down to 170psi, then the shock sits to low in travel. The shock have been serviced so it should be technically good.


That's a lot of air, how much do you weigh?

I'm 200# and run 140psi


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I am 240-250# depending on outfit. Normally I would think 160 psi was okay, but the shock is then sitting to low. The thing is that I find the climbing abilities with CS on with high pressure like 180psi, to be good. But the down hill a abilities are not so good. Might be something compromise with pressure between 170-180psi?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I am 240-250# depending on outfit. Normally I would think 160 psi was okay, but the shock is then sitting to low. The thing is that I find the climbing abilities with CS on with high pressure like 180psi, to be good. But the down hill a abilities are not so good. Might be something compromise with pressure between 170-180psi?


Might need to play with settings. This morning I was fiddling with low speed seetings, trying to reduce bounce, increasing LSR was helpful, but increasing LSC made the backend more skittery abd dud nothing for low speed comfort.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Actually I tried to play a bit with the rebound yesterday. It changed the ride dramatically. I have obvious used to little rebound, since the bike calmed down and I gained so much more control. Would have appreciated a lot to find the correct pressure/sag that still keep the shock sitting high when climbing. Now I am running minimum HSC and LSC so it could help to lower pressure and increase compression?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Actually I tried to play a bit with the rebound yesterday. It changed the ride dramatically. I have obvious used to little rebound, since the bike calmed down and I gained so much more control. Would have appreciated a lot to find the correct pressure/sag that still keep the shock sitting high when climbing. Now I am running minimum HSC and LSC so it could help to lower pressure and increase compression?


I like the CCI, but I find it challenging to get it set correctly. The starting point was okay, but getting the sag correct took some time, too much pressure and it rode like brick, but when I dropped the pressure I was blowing through the travel. I dound that using more rebound and compression could make up for running lower pressures.

Are you running 5" or 5.5" travel?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I am using the 5.5" travel. I have no problem With blowing through travel, since I am not doing a lot of dropping. It might also be a reason for not using all travel.....I am using all travel on the Wren though running it at 65psi now....


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

syntheticreality said:


> Actually, it's a 34 take-off from a Speccy 6fattie whatever. It's 27.5 650b boost. Those are 4.0 tires on 65mm rims and the fit is not spacious but comfortable. The ride quality is GREAT!


Thanks Syntheticreality,

I think that a fox in the front would do the job well but I like to have enough room for the tire, so i'll go for a Wren i think.....


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Just put back the fox evol for a ride yesterday. I am afraid it is a much more easy shock to set correctly than CC. Plug and play. Set the sag and rebound. That's it. If the CC had been like the Fox, for the first step, and then be fine tuned with the LS and HS rebound and compression, it should be the winner. But when it is a struggle just to find the correct sag, than you feel you need to be a pro to find the settings.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Love this bike


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Just put back the fox evol for a ride yesterday. I am afraid it is a much more easy shock to set correctly than CC. Plug and play. Set the sag and rebound. That's it. If the CC had been like the Fox, for the first step, and then be fine tuned with the LS and HS rebound and compression, it should be the winner. But when it is a struggle just to find the correct sag, than you feel you need to be a pro to find the settings.


I love the Fox Evol compared to the CCDB air and Inline. I like the lockout feature. I want one on my other bike too. Super plush and so easy to set up. It just feels so good.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone have dimensions for the shock used on the Mutz...I'm contemplating something


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

*Just a moan about parts not lasting as long as I'd like.*

While trying to work out if the odd noises I was hearing were coming from my Wren, I noticed the frame bearings on my Mutz had developed play. That's after 1400km of riding over 6 months. So having changed them all, the 6 bearings in the shock linkage were all pretty sloppy, as was the lower shock bushing. The main pivot on the drive side was pretty bad, but the non-ds felt fine. The bike feels a lot tighter now but pretty disappointed at having to change the bearings this early. We had quite a wet winter here in Scotland, but still.

Also, last week my rear axle unwound itself and the wheel got wedged in the rear triangle. Luckily I wasn't going too quickly. Turned out one of the freehub bearings had destroyed itself and I think caused the axle to bind. The inner race of one bearing (the one nearest the wheel) was in 3 pieces. This was on a 6 month old Hope Fatsno pro2 evo hub. Thinking I could borrow a freehub of my other fatbike, when I pulled it off, the same bearing on that freehub also had a broken race - it just hadn't caused any problems yet. That hub is about a year old. Fat specific problem for the Hope freehubs?


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I had a thread hear about my similar experience with hopes on Mutz

I think the gen 1 bearings were not large enough for the torque exerted by extended range cog

Hope did right by me and send me s new driver with larger bearings


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

This is the reason for changing from Hope wheel set to Onyx Racing. The hope where not taking the use of my 250lbs. The free hub bearings, especially the one closest to the hub where blowing continuously. I got some sort of proto type free wheel hub that was made with a bit more aluminum. But the greatest improvement was with s more rigid axle I bought a steel bolt, that where improving s lot. The main bearings in tube hub is not great. They did not stand out more than 10 rides before it started dragging.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Hope hubs are nice eye candy, but they are not durable, so don't be too surprised when they blow up.

I ride Onyx, three pairs, expensive, but they last like no other.

I've had no bearing issues with my Metz, one year, lots of hard riding, but I ride dry stuff except when it's snowing.

Do you wash your bike with a hose? Might be better off brushing it off once the mud dries, store the bike where it can dry out daily.



brownmruk said:


> While trying to work out if the odd noises I was hearing were coming from my Wren, I noticed the frame bearings on my Mutz had developed play. That's after 1400km of riding over 6 months. So having changed them all, the 6 bearings in the shock linkage were all pretty sloppy, as was the lower shock bushing. The main pivot on the drive side was pretty bad, but the non-ds felt fine. The bike feels a lot tighter now but pretty disappointed at having to change the bearings this early. We had quite a wet winter here in Scotland, but still.
> 
> Also, last week my rear axle unwound itself and the wheel got wedged in the rear triangle. Luckily I wasn't going too quickly. Turned out one of the freehub bearings had destroyed itself and I think caused the axle to bind. The inner race of one bearing (the one nearest the wheel) was in 3 pieces. This was on a 6 month old Hope Fatsno pro2 evo hub. Thinking I could borrow a freehub of my other fatbike, when I pulled it off, the same bearing on that freehub also had a broken race - it just hadn't caused any problems yet. That hub is about a year old. Fat specific problem for the Hope freehubs?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Did also change today all bearings exept main pivot bearings, that I did change two months ago. The linkage bearings where not good. I have used the bike for one year now and have been riding through all kinds of weather and I have been using my bike almost every day for one year. I use water as little as possible, but I think it was a reasonable to get one year. 
Just confused about the main pivot bearings? Why is it not just 4 bearings there, since it could be made Space for it. It sits to Spacers almost the size of a bearing on each side? Why not put 2 bearings on each side instead? Would be much more durable?



brownmruk said:


> While trying to work out if the odd noises I was hearing were coming from my Wren, I noticed the frame bearings on my Mutz had developed play. That's after 1400km of riding over 6 months. So having changed them all, the 6 bearings in the shock linkage were all pretty sloppy, as was the lower shock bushing. The main pivot on the drive side was pretty bad, but the non-ds felt fine. The bike feels a lot tighter now but pretty disappointed at having to change the bearings this early. We had quite a wet winter here in Scotland, but still.
> 
> Also, last week my rear axle unwound itself and the wheel got wedged in the rear triangle. Luckily I wasn't going too quickly. Turned out one of the freehub bearings had destroyed itself and I think caused the axle to bind. The inner race of one bearing (the one nearest the wheel) was in 3 pieces. This was on a 6 month old Hope Fatsno pro2 evo hub. Thinking I could borrow a freehub of my other fatbike, when I pulled it off, the same bearing on that freehub also had a broken race - it just hadn't caused any problems yet. That hub is about a year old. Fat specific problem for the Hope freehubs?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Did check play in the linkage before and after getting new bearings. Did not get much better. Compared to another Mutz that is less used and is half year newer than mine and find much less play. Could you do the test on your Mutz by holding the seat tube and push and pull against the suspension linkage. You will surprised or disappointed by how much. The upper linkage should be much stronger if it was made out of one block of aluminum. At least more side way support.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My Mutz frame and linkage is tight after a year of riding, no complaints.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> My Mutz frame and linkage is tight after a year of riding, no complaints.


That was really surprising. I made improvement to the upper link yesterday and what an upgrade.... Made two tubes in aluminum and tightened together with bolts. Much improved ride quality and of course the play was much less. The seat tube felt tight as a rock.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I would also prefer to have 2 bearings on each side in the main pivot. I cannot see why there is not???


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

I have exchanged the CCDB against RS Monarch Debon Air.
The CC is losing air... :madmax:

Now 60 mm Carbon Rims with Schwalbe JJ 4", 2 kg lighter! Now 15.2 kg


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

Can't say enough about the Mutz yet with so many bikes, and not enough time to ride (damn work!) I'm to dining myself listing a few of my favorite bikes. But - if I can't sell for the right price (and I'm pretty stuborn) I'll go fat again (from b plus). Anyone here move away from fat and have a wheelset they are considering parting with?

Or know someone who wants a pre loved b plus Mutz 

Thanks all


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> My Mutz frame and linkage is tight after a year of riding, no complaints.


Try to hold the seat tube With both hands, and push With both thumbs against the rear triangle, thapart that follows the seat tube. You will find a lot of play. The seat tube is moving because of the biggest suspension link. It was a really tight feel when testing after I made the improvement of the two aluminum tubes and bolts holding the links together. I will post som Pictures to show What I have done.

The link itself is a long one, and would have been much better if it was made of one Peace of cnc machined alumium, instead of 2 halfs Connected only through the bearings. If the surfaces of the Connection Points where big, it would have helped. But it is really small tubes and small surfaces connecting the two links through the bearing. Since Your body weight and pedal forces goes through the seat tube I am pretty sure it is a big improvement to take away the play. It is a cheap and easy improvement that Foes could implement.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

After much reflection regarding the future of my Mutz, and my unwillingness to accept anything but a really high offer (which is what you do when you don't want to sell!) I'm going to return the Mutz to fat from b plus. I have an opportunity to be a part of a nextie group buy and am wondering people's thoughts on 65 versus 80mm rims. While once a 4 season bike it's really now 3 season as I am enjoying a 29 plus for summer 

Thanks!


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

blidner said:


> After much reflection regarding the future of my Mutz, and my unwillingness to accept anything but a really high offer (which is what you do when you don't want to sell!) I'm going to return the Mutz to fat from b plus. I have an opportunity to be a part of a nextie group buy and am wondering people's thoughts on 65 versus 80mm rims. While once a 4 season bike it's really now 3 season as I am enjoying a 29 plus for summer
> 
> Thanks!


80mm is the far best for getting best flotation in loose snow. If you want to have the versatility to use narrower tires like 3.8" and 4" tires you need to have narrower rims like 65mm. 80mm is actually not so bad for some of the 4" tires. I know that Schwalbe 4" is pretty wide and I wille believe that minion FBR and RBH is not so bad either on the 80mm rims. Other 4" tires I have tried is to narrow and it will be easy to hit the rim in rock beds. When it comes to loose snow it is no better than a wide rim. I have been able to fit Minion FBR 4.8 rear on 90mm rims on my Mutz, though it can rub a bit. If you use 80mm rim it should be fine. Narrow rim and wide tires is no good combination since it will get wallowing when low air pressure.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

blidner said:


> After much reflection regarding the future of my Mutz, and my unwillingness to accept anything but a really high offer (which is what you do when you don't want to sell!) I'm going to return the Mutz to fat from b plus. I have an opportunity to be a part of a nextie group buy and am wondering people's thoughts on 65 versus 80mm rims. While once a 4 season bike it's really now 3 season as I am enjoying a 29 plus for summer
> 
> Thanks!


Four inch tires are really the max width on the Mutz, esp with 177 spacing, otherwise you risk breaking thr chain or rubbing the stays. A 65mm wide rim is plenty, also lighter, and you'll have less chance of rim damage. You could go wider, but it'll serve no signuficant advantage as 15mm is less than 10% of bead to bead.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Four inch tires are really the max width on the Mutz, esp with 177 spacing, otherwise you risk breaking thr chain or rubbing the stays. A 65mm wide rim is plenty, also lighter, and you'll have less chance of rim damage. You could go wider, but it'll serve no signuficant advantage as 15mm is less than 10% of bead to bead.


That is not the case, 4" is not the Maximum tires for Mutz. I have been riding With several others that uses 4.5 tires and wider 
with no issue. Take into account that if you are biking in bad condition With gravel and mud you need more clearance than in snow condition. If you want a Fat bike in snow conditions you need as Wide tire and rim as possible. If you are running in snow free conditions you should ame for a narrow rim and a narrow tire.

Tires that has a good enough clearance for a Mutz With 90mm rim is Bulldozer, Dillinger 5, Schwalbe 4.4" (from Cube Fat bikes). 
In snow conditions With 90mm rim the widest I have been using is the Minion FBR.


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## blidner (Jan 19, 2015)

I ran dunder flow last year on whiskeys - no issues

Probably should have just stuck with it - but drank the plus cool aid

Thanks for the feedback


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

blidner said:


> I ran dunder flow last year on whiskeys - no issues
> 
> Probably should have just stuck with it - but drank the plus cool aid
> 
> Thanks for the feedback


Yeaahh I forgot, I used them on my 90mm without any issue. It is the same casing as the Dillinger 5.......it will probably also be good in summer use also.....


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

... just read this whole thread. i want a mutz now in the worst way :madman:


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

now that the fatbike bubble has burst, when can i get a Mutz cheap?!? :smilewinkgrin:


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Didn't have a winter that required dunder/powderflow. Been using vanhelga's since i got he bike (1y+).

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## Riderofbikes (Oct 1, 2007)

Ah, you must be talkin about those other fatbikeS. 

The Mutz is still in a league of it's own... and worth way more than its admission price! :thumbsup:


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

anyone else have love for the Mutz?!? 

they look awesome. i hope to build mine soon. i am loving the green...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I still ride mine and love it... riding and traveling too much to be online writing about it...


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

I love mine too.


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## Skarecrow (Feb 15, 2016)

Tripower said:


> I love mine too.


Love my mutz









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

the mutz looks awesome. after the ride i had last night, i really need some squish... i gotta get my mits on one and make sure i like it before i plunk $3k down on a frame...:skep:


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## wreckster (May 22, 2014)

I thought you had plenty of built in squish? Need a motor to get it up the hills?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> the mutz looks awesome. after the ride i had last night, i really need some squish... i gotta get my mits on one and make sure i like it before i plunk $3k down on a frame...:skep:


Its ridiculously fun. I absolutely love mine. I don't ride my carbon Intense Tracer much anymore.

Get one.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> anyone else have love for the Mutz?!?
> 
> they look awesome. i hope to build mine soon. i am loving the green...


That's gonna look so good with a big black Wren fork on it


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Man, I'm so jealous of these sweet bikes.
I reckon this is the pinnacle of mountain bikes, but so hard to justify the cost when I can buy a small motorcycle instead.
Sigh, someday.
Oh well, I shall live vicariously through you guys.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi,

More than a year i ride mine, i absolutely like it a lot much more than other previous bikes i've owned :thumbsup:

Just put a CCDB instead of the initial DBInline with wich i've had a lot of problems......

The only complain is the :madman: :madmax: bluto. 
I'll certainly put a wren in the front, hope it'll have less flex/better damping than the rock shox and that will match the rear end of the bike.....

This is my only bike, my do-it-all bike, i ride it during all 4 seasons. A beast that can climb anything if you've got the leg then bomb downhill or take technical decents with ease and lot of comfort. 

Love my Foes Mutz


Steve, from France


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## exp18 (Feb 15, 2012)

pit said:


> Hi,
> 
> More than a year i ride mine, i absolutely like it a lot much more than other previous bikes i've owned :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


You won't regret getting a wren fork, I ran a Bluto for a couple of weeks when I first got my mutz. I felt the Bluto was the weak link on my bike, the rear suspension would handle pretty much anything I could dish out. I am around 230, old and don't do the big jumps, but do a lot of aggressive trail riding rocks and roots. After putting a wren fork on my mutz I feel this bike just gets better the harder you push it. I have the fox shock on the rear.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

ttakata73 said:


> Man, I'm so jealous of these sweet bikes.
> I reckon this is the pinnacle of mountain bikes, but so hard to justify the cost when I can buy a small motorcycle instead.
> Sigh, someday.
> Oh well, I shall live vicariously through you guys.


My brother rides motorcycles.

I tell him how far I've ridden some days, how many vertical feet of climbing, and he just looks at me in awe.

It's worth the work.

Get a fatbike!


----------



## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

Ok here's my little FSFB story in short.

I've made the big jump 2 weeks ago and ordered a Foes Mutz. 

After riding my Scott Big Ed this summer I saw the real potential of fatbikes. I didn't even use my Bronson that much since I was having more fun on the fatbike. Previously, I had only used the fatbike in snow in winter and must say that fatbikes are highly underestimated for summer trail riding. However, after a summer of riding the fatbike, I realized that the Big Ed was taking a beating from my aggressive trail riding. I was regularly bottoming out the 100mm Bluto (even at proper psi) and felt the rear wheel wasn't gonna last much longer. So I decided that maybe a full sus fatty might be better suited for me. 

So... a lot of folks are probably gonna think I'm crazy for doing this but I sold my Bronson and Big Ed to fund the Mutz purchase! Therefore, I will go from 2 bikes to a single beast. I honestly think I made the right choice since the Bronson just gathered dust in the garage this summer.

After reading this thread I also picked the Wren 150mm instead of the flexy Bluto (which I felt on the Big Ed as well). Also, a pleasant surprise as Foes didn't have any Cane Creek shocks left and they asked if I would prefer a DVO Topaz 150mm instead! Would I?! 

And so, as winter is fast approaching, I'm now worried about the cold weather reliability of those suspensions. Does anyone have any input on those, particularly the Topaz since it's gonna be the one doing most of the work with pedalling and all. Btw I live in Quebec where the winters are pretty harsh although I don't particularly fancy riding in temps lower than -15C.

Thanks


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

exp18 said:


> You won't regret getting a wren fork, I ran a Bluto for a couple of weeks when I first got my mutz. I felt the Bluto was the weak link on my bike, the rear suspension would handle pretty much anything I could dish out. I am around 230, old and don't do the big jumps, but do a lot of aggressive trail riding rocks and roots. After putting a wren fork on my mutz I feel this bike just gets better the harder you push it. I have the fox shock on the rear.


It seems that the 150 mm travel Wren was produced to fit the Mutz first.....that's what Xavier Lassalle from Crazy Bear Bikes said to me a few weeks ago.....:thumbsup:


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

found this pic in another thread, my the raw finish looks so utilitarian. awesome...


----------



## exp18 (Feb 15, 2012)

pit said:


> It seems that the 150 mm travel Wren was produced to fit the Mutz first.....that's what Xavier Lassalle from Crazy Bear Bikes said to me a few weeks ago.....:thumbsup:


Agreed, like a glove. I am glad I ran the bluto for a little while it made me not doubt me purchase.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I got in some snow. This was taken about 8 miles back in at 6500 ft. 17 mile ride on the Mutz yesterday and two KOMs on some DH sections. The Muts is faster than my AM bike... when no pedaling is involved.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Have been using my Mutz with 27.5 50mm rims with 3" tires from Schwalbe all summer and autumn. Also put on a DHX2 coil shock. Together with the Wren 150mm fork it is so good. Did a couple of drop and jumps today and what a plush bike. I have had some other FS and it cannot compare. And then you can just switch over to 26" wheels with 4.6"/4.8" tires when the snow comes. I would have loved to tried 27.5" with 3.8" tires from Maxxis, the Minions, before getting the widest fat bike tires on for the deep snow.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Quick question guys, is the 71 degree seat tube angle listed the actual STA or the effective? 

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I have a Wren 150mm fork up front and measured my STA at 70 degrees.


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## gtfourch (Nov 21, 2016)

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum and I will start with this thread as I'm currently building my Mutz. Actually I'm almost finished, just waiting to get the XX1 Derailleur, which is the last part missing. Once done I will post some pictures from beautiful Switzerland  
OK and I also have some questions:
1) is anyone out there with an *Eagle group* on his Mutz?
2) has anyone fitted *Maxxis Minion's* on his Mutz? Do they actually fit?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

In the Foes forum there is a tire fitment thread, maybe some pictures in there.

When my tires wear out I plan to put on a set of Minions 4.0.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Ive run 5" Dillingers on mine. Van Helgas and 4.0 Minions work just fine.


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## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

I have 4.8 Minions for summer and Dillinger 5s for winter. Both have chain clearance issues on the "granny" gear (large cog). Chain lightly rubs on the side knobs of the rear tires when climbing on the large cog. It doesn't really bother me but it's not ideal. Btw all advice are welcome, but I really don't wanna buy another crank and bb has already 1 spacer on the drive side and I doubt a 2nd spacer is recommended.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ridgeracer said:


> I have 4.8 Minions for summer and Dillinger 5s for winter. Both have chain clearance issues on the "granny" gear (large cog). Chain lightly rubs on the side knobs of the rear tires when climbing on the large cog. It doesn't really bother me but it's not ideal. Btw all advice are welcome, but I really don't wanna buy another crank and bb has already 1 spacer on the drive side and I doubt a 2nd spacer is recommended.


Flip the chainring or buy an offset wolftooth model.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Flip the chainring or buy an offset wolftooth model.


I should have added... I run the wolftooth chainring with no problems with 5" Dillingers. I think the wolftooth is 4mm more offset.


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## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

What's that wolf tooth chainring model called? Or could someone post a pic? Thx


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

ridgeracer said:


> What's that wolf tooth chainring model called? Or could someone post a pic? Thx


I think all Wolftooth chainrings are 6mm offset for sram


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

I've just ordered a Wren in 150mm....can't wait to put her in front of my Mutz :arf:

Steve, from France


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## gtfourch (Nov 21, 2016)

Hey thanks for all your replies! Somehow the notification does not work for me, so I never knew there were any...

Anyhow, here are some pictures of my Mutz.




























Currently I'm running the 4.0 Schwalbe Jumbo Jim's I still had lying around and I might stay with 4.0 width for the clearances sake. Minions will be the next ones I fit. The 4.0 are more expensive than the 4.8. It's a strange world...


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

:thumbsup: Nice !!!


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

That's baller.


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## calzonical (Aug 30, 2005)

ridgeracer said:


> I have 4.8 Minions for summer and Dillinger 5s for winter. Both have chain clearance issues on the "granny" gear (large cog). Chain lightly rubs on the side knobs of the rear tires when climbing on the large cog. It doesn't really bother me but it's not ideal. Btw all advice are welcome, but I really don't wanna buy another crank and bb has already 1 spacer on the drive side and I doubt a 2nd spacer is recommended.


Here is what I have done to add clearance for a Lou mounted on a Marge Lite fitted into a Carver ti O'beast. Running a 1 x 11 with shimano XT cassette. I placed a 9spd spacer on the freehub then mounted the Cassette without the 11T first cog. I used a 12T lockring to snug the cassette down. So far every thing is staying tight.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

We are using 4.4 Schwalbe JJ rear on the Mutz. They are studded with 250-300 Best Grip studs. They are light and rolling better then every other tires we have tested. 

The other tire we have tested is the minions 27.5 x 3.8 on 50mm rims. Also with studs. That's a tire that can take rocks and hits, when the snow are melted.


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

calzonical said:


> Here is what I have done to add clearance for a Lou mounted on a Marge Lite fitted into a Carver ti O'beast. Running a 1 x 11 with shimano XT cassette. I placed a 9spd spacer on the freehub then mounted the Cassette without the 11T first cog. I used a 12T lockring to snug the cassette down. So far every thing is staying tight.
> 
> View attachment 1112905


Brilliant. Well dun sir!!


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

...


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

gtfourch said:


> Hey thanks for all your replies! Somehow the notification does not work for me, so I never knew there were any...
> 
> Anyhow, here are some pictures of my Mutz.
> 
> ...


Salü
Ich habe letzten Sommer die JJ 4" gefahren. Für Strasse und leichtes Gelände in Ordnung. Für richtig grobes Gelände haben die zu wenig Profil/Gripp und dünne Seitenwände...
Hab mir nun für nächsten Sommer die Minion in 4" organisiert. Bin gespannt was die taugen! 
Für den Winter hab ich die Colossus in 4.8", passen hinten knapp in den Rahmen...
Grüsse aus der Innerschweiz!


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## gtfourch (Nov 21, 2016)

matt45 said:


> Salü
> Ich habe letzten Sommer die JJ 4" gefahren. Für Strasse und leichtes Gelände in Ordnung. Für richtig grobes Gelände haben die zu wenig Profil/Gripp und dünne Seitenwände...
> Hab mir nun für nächsten Sommer die Minion in 4" organisiert. Bin gespannt was die taugen!
> Für den Winter hab ich die Colossus in 4.8", passen hinten knapp in den Rahmen...
> Grüsse aus der Innerschweiz!


Ja, diese Meinung teile ich. Ich bin letztes Jahr in Davos den Morning Flow Ride mit den JJ 4.8 gefahren... absoluter Fehlentscheid, der zu einer ausgekugelten Schulter geführt hat :nonod:
Den Dillinger 4" mit Spikes fahre ich auf meinem haibike Sduro :thumbsup:
Die JJ werde ich beim Mutz auch mit den Minions ersetzen.
Fährst du die Colossus mit der Fox Gabel? 

Sorry for going German on this Post


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

gtfourch said:


> Ja, diese Meinung teile ich. Ich bin letztes Jahr in Davos den Morning Flow Ride mit den JJ 4.8 gefahren... absoluter Fehlentscheid, der zu einer ausgekugelten Schulter geführt hat :nonod:
> Den Dillinger 4" mit Spikes fahre ich auf meinem haibike Sduro :thumbsup:
> Die JJ werde ich beim Mutz auch mit den Minions ersetzen.
> Fährst du die Colossus mit der Fox Gabel?
> ...


Im Winter hab ich ne Bluto mit Colossus 4.8 und im Sommer ne Fox 34 boost mit Minion 4". In die Fox passen max. 4" Pneu.


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## Blackknife (Feb 12, 2017)

I like it! A lot of nice bikes. Dan Mutz just finished mine. New Hampshire


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

*A Mutz in Corsica Island*

Still loving mine

Top quality frame

Fantastic bike (for me......)

I'm still waiting for my Wren........:arf:









Steve, from France


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

a63vette said:


> +1 - anybody?


Just mounted these on some Hugo 52mm rims and they fit perfectly.


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

Has anyone found a QR rear thru-axle with the right thread pitch and thread depth for a 2016 Mutz frame? I am emailing back and forth with Foes and this seems to be a difficult question for them to field so far. I'd like to not have to carry a tool to be able to remove the rear wheel if possible....


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## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

I have a DT Swiss 12X177mm. Works perfectly.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

ridgeracer said:


> I have a DT Swiss 12X177mm. Works perfectly.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

Oh good thx. Do you have a link to the exact one you bought? I know there are different thread pitches on these skewers.


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Bombin4X said:


> Oh good thx. Do you have a link to the exact one you bought? I know there are different thread pitches on these skewers.


Mine came with the frame when i ordered it......


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

pit said:


> Mine came with the frame when i ordered it......


Couple questions:
1)What year is your frame
2)What is the length on the threads?

Thanks much. I'm going back and forth with Foes sales dept and they don't seem to be real confident that one exists for my 2016 frame.


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## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

Bombin4X said:


> Couple questions:
> 1)What year is your frame
> 2)What is the length on the threads?
> 
> Thanks much. I'm going back and forth with Foes sales dept and they don't seem to be real confident that one exists for my 2016 frame.


Just checked, you can get them on Amazon.com. Just search DT Swiss skewer 12X177


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

ridgeracer said:


> Just checked, you can get them on Amazon.com. Just search DT Swiss skewer 12X177


Thx. I ordered one on eBay. The key was finding the right pitch (1.5) and thread length (15mm).


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

*THIS did the trick*









Success!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I got a 29er wheelset and Minions for my longer rides. The VanHelgas are a bit much for my 50-60 mile rides.


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

I'm needing to sell my Mutz, Please tell your friends 
Foes Mutz kit bike - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

If you guys saw on Facebook a new Mutz is on the way.... it looks like there will be a long travel and a short travel version.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I looked for more info, all I saw was a mention of 150mm travel. 

I liked my Mutz, but it needs some tweaks before I'd buy another:

Shorter chainstays, 425-430
Steeper seat tube angle, 75-76
Head tube that's compatible with internal angleset
Clearance for 29+ and 26 x 4.8

These are minor tweaks other than the chainstays, which might not work without a rework of the yoke.

Changing head tubes is easy, the larger head tube is already in use by the Mixxer.

Seat tube angle might require a bent tube, probably need to lengthen the top tube.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Can anyone please confirm (Picture if possible) that a 27.5 x3.8 Maxxis or Hodag's will fit in the rear on 45 mm rims?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jpfurn said:


> Can anyone please confirm (Picture if possible) that a 27.5 x3.8 Maxxis or Hodag's will fit in the rear on 45 mm rims?


It'll fit, probably 3/8-1/2" spacing, not ideal for mud I ran a 29 x 3 Dirt Wizard which just cleared with a big 1/8" to spare.

The Minion 27.5 x 3.8 is the same diameter as a Minion 26 x 4.8 which is a good inch shorter than a Minion 29 x 3.


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## ridgeracer (Oct 11, 2016)

JCHKeys said:


> If you guys saw on Facebook a new Mutz is on the way.... it looks like there will be a long travel and a short travel version.


Weird... Why the exclusive short travel version? Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that the Mutz already has a short travel option by switching eyelet on the rear shock linkage and switching/adjusting front fork. Anyway I love my Mutz in 150mm with the Wren and Topaz shock. Wouldn't change anything. I need that 150 for the more aggressive summer riding.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe the poster doesn't know the Mutz has two travel settings?

I prefer longer travel too, esp since I already have a hardtail fatty.


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## matt45 (Sep 22, 2005)

*Mutz can fly!!*

Road Gap in Finale Ligure


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

New mutz? Details? Same geo as before?


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I need to order a front derailer for the Mutz. I was looking at GX. Which one do I need to order?


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## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi,

High direct mount, top pull.


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

matt45 said:


> Road Gap in Finale Ligure


Yeah man nice!!


----------



## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

*Tons of traction with a Mutz......*

This was in a forest near Cahors, center of France. Hard and technical climb, nice terrain for a tractor like the Mutz...... :thumbsup: but.......did something like this ever happen to someone ?

It's a Garbaruk Xtender 42-50 teeth.......I've just sent it back to my distributor in France.....


----------



## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Just built this Mutz up. Anyone else have a DVO Topaz shock on theirs?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

pit said:


> This was in a forest near Cahors, center of France. Hard and technical climb, nice terrain for a tractor like the Mutz...... :thumbsup: but.......did something like this ever happen to someone ?
> 
> It's a Garbaruk Xtender 42-50 teeth.......I've just sent it back to my distributor in France.....


Probably not, that's a brand new product that's not widely used yet. Wonder if the fatbike drivetrain is at an angle that's outside of the spec, but it's also likely to not have the same level of R&D of SRAM or Shimano, so it's taking a chance IMO. I feel like I'm taking a chance with my Hope cassette too, but so far so good.


----------



## pit (Oct 9, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Probably not, that's a brand new product that's not widely used yet. Wonder if the fatbike drivetrain is at an angle that's outside of the spec, but it's also likely to not have the same level of R&D of SRAM or Shimano, so it's taking a chance IMO. I feel like I'm taking a chance with my Hope cassette too, but so far so good.


I agree, that's a "young" company.....or i wasn't lucky on this climb  .....perhaps the warranty service will send me a new one.....

I hope your hope cassette will work better than mine Jayem :thumbsup:

Cheers

Steve


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Just curious. What are some average build weights?


----------



## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Mine came in at 32.5 with 27.5 x 3 tires and 34# with the 26 x 4.0s. That's with a Fox 34, Reverb Dropper and very heavy saddle.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Hah, awesome decals


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

Hobine said:


> Mine came in at 32.5 with 27.5 x 3 tires and 34# with the 26 x 4.0s. That's with a Fox 34, Reverb Dropper and very heavy saddle.


How do you like it with the plus tires? I've had mine like that since new haven't tried anything else yet. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

a63vette said:


> How do you like it with the plus tires? I've had mine like that since new haven't tried anything else yet. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One of the reasons I'll always have a fat full squish is because of the versatility. I love the bike with the 27.5+ set up. Definitely can corner and climb faster. 
The fat set up is just plain fun. Nothing better when you just want to smile and goof around on a local loop. Fat holds an edge in comfort for strait line bombing roots and rocks. When my hands, elbows and shoulders hurt, I run full fat. 
I've tried the "big" fat tires and prefer the 3.8-4.0 for everything but loose snow. For that I'll break out the Farley.


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## a63vette (Jun 23, 2006)

Thanks - appreciate the insight 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

jpfurn said:


> Can anyone please confirm (Picture if possible) that a 27.5 x3.8 Maxxis or Hodag's will fit in the rear on 45 mm rims?


Really late answer, but Minions 3.8" will clear with good mud clearance on the Foes Mutz.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What's your favorite tire on the Mutz? I've been riding the Van Helgas and really like them, but I wanna try something different... maybe a smaller and lighter 4.0.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

kntr said:


> What's your favorite tire on the Mutz? I've been riding the Van Helgas and really like them, but I wanna try something different... maybe a smaller and lighter 4.0.


My favourite fat tyre is depending on surface. Snow and Ice I use spiked Jumb Jim 4" or 4.4" rear and 4.8 or 4.4" front. Wet surface on roots and rocks I like Minions. I have only tried 4.8/26" and 3.8"/27.5". Would love to try Minions 4"/26"


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Something in a 27.5 3" 

I really like the WTB Trail Boss 3.0 when I was riding a Mutz, it never let me down.

I'm riding the Purgatory Grid now on a Fatillac, what a great tire, the Grid version fixes all the woes of the lighter weight Purgatory.

Seriously, you need some 27.5 rims to run the b fat tires like the Hodag and Minion.

In a 26 x 4" tire, the height to width ratio are limiting factors that can't be overcome by tread design.



kntr said:


> What's your favorite tire on the Mutz? I've been riding the Van Helgas and really like them, but I wanna try something different... maybe a smaller and lighter 4.0.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Something in a 27.5 3"
> 
> I really like the WTB Trail Boss 3.0 when I was riding a Mutz, it never let me down.
> 
> ...


26 x 4" Maxxis Minion tire is actually lighter than the 27.5x 3.8" tire. I am not sure about the tire height limitation since I have never tried the 4", but I am running the 3.8" on a Nextie carbon rim with 45mm internal width. I am going to try the 4" on a Nextie with 85mm internal width so it is not quite right to compare.

Both the Purgatory Grid/Gripton (I own two myself, but have not used it much) and the WTB are incredible heavy tires in their size. I will buy a Trail Boss to see how it will ride though.

The best plus tire by far, is the Vee Tyre Crown Gem 3" with Synthesis walls. Weighs little, and the rubber compound and the knobs pattern (similar to Schwalbe N.Nic) are top notch. It is durable in tough terrain, but I have worned out almost 2 of them these season due to high milage. Low rolling resistant with lower center knobs, but grippy side knobs, and the soft rubber compound grips on wet surface.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Heavy tires are heavy for good reason, they are more robust, they take more abuse, and they tend to ride better when well designed.

I went through the whole light tire route, the result is poor performance and flats.

Take for example a Jumbo Jim, which is a great tire for it's weight, but it's not a heavy hitter when it comes to traction and performance.

I'd much rather ride a Minion or a Purgatory and pay the price for weight, then be spinning out or washing out as I ride, or worse yet, replacing failed tires.

There's no magic in tires, weight is just one factor to consider when choosing a tire.

The Purgatory Grid is twice the tire when compared to a Trail Boss, but only because it is better constructed. If the Trail Boss were updated to the same casing and compound as the Purgatory Grid, then they'd be on equal footing.

By memory, I believe the Trail Boss 3.0 is heavier (1100gm( than the Purgatory Grid (975gm).

Also keep in mind that we're riding fat full suspension bikes, so weight means a lot less... in other words, if I wanted a light full suspension fat bike, I certainly would not be riding a Mutz or a Fatillac!



Rumblefish2010 said:


> 26 x 4" Maxxis Minion tire is actually lighter than the 27.5x 3.8" tire. I am not sure about the tire height limitation since I have never tried the 4", but I am running the 3.8" on a Nextie carbon rim with 45mm internal width. I am going to try the 4" on a Nextie with 85mm internal width so it is not quite right to compare.
> 
> Both the Purgatory Grid/Gripton (I own two myself, but have not used it much) and the WTB are incredible heavy tires in their size. I will buy a Trail Boss to see how it will ride though.
> 
> The best plus tire by far, is the Vee Tyre Crown Gem 3" with Synthesis walls. Weighs little, and the rubber compound and the knobs pattern (similar to Schwalbe N.Nic) are top notch. It is durable in tough terrain, but I have worned out almost 2 of them these season due to high milage. Low rolling resistant with lower center knobs, but grippy side knobs, and the soft rubber compound grips on wet surface.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes and no, weight and performance does not only mean durability. It depends on more than weight. Side walls especially.

Purgatory Gripton is actually 1280 grams and Trail Boss in soft compound/ High Grip is 1470 grams. Minions in 3" is approx 1000grams?

I will not ever buy dry surface tires any more, they are designed for totally different climate than mine. It is not only scary but dangerous to use tires with 62 or harder compound where I am living.

Yes I rode the Nobby Nic a lot last year, and yes it was taking a lot of hits and it punctured alot. This year I have used the Vee Crown Gem with synthesis side walls (that I think does it really durable) and they rides better and have taken only on hit that I think was a spike shaped stone or something. Both tires are a bit under 1000 grams in 3".

I tried Maxxis in start of season and I like it (just one hit) and I have ridden minion 29er up front and I love it. Not as good rubber compound as Schwalbe and Vee tire.

Starting to test Purgatory now, and it seems good. Not sure about the Gripton compound yet, it is really soft and needs a bit more air pressure.

I use Schwalbe procore on all of my front wheels/tire combo. You can go lower in air pressure and still have a stiffer tire feel. It just holds the tire on the rim much better. 
On the rear I use Huck Norris rim protection, and this have saved me a lot of times when hitting hard in rock beds and on roots in high speed.



Nurse Ben said:


> Heavy tires are heavy for good reason, they are more robust, they take more abuse, and they tend to ride better when well designed.
> 
> I went through the whole light tire route, the result is poor performance and flats.
> 
> ...


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Has anyone tried a 27.5 x3.0 Wrathchild?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

2018 Foes Mutz 150 - Frame

The all new, longer, lower, slacker version of the original "best bike ever" 
With up to 6.5" of travel, the new Mutz 150 breaks all fatbike rules and is truly ready for anything! 
From big hits in the dirt to snowy flow, this is your one bike to do it all. 

Foes Mutz150 LB builds available now! Check one out at the Amherst, NH location. :thumbsup:
Gx11 with Mastodon 150. Race ready machine!

:band:

Custom Bike Builds - Likin' Bikin' Alton & Amherst, NH


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Alright MTBR friends, I have joined the Mutz gang!!

I picked up a Mutz frame recently and upon receiving and unboxing two things became apparent. 

1/ My frame has had the everloving daylights beat out of it. I couldn't find an inch on it that wasn't covered in very deep scratches :O

2/ My shock (CC Inline) sounds sucky/bubbly/weird. This is my first full sus bike and I know shocks and forks make an air noise but this is LOUD. Wondering if I should replace with a Fox/Manitou/DVO/whatever or rebuild. I'd love to hear feedback on the different shock options.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

NH Mtbiker said:


> 2018 Foes Mutz 150 - Frame
> 
> The all new, longer, lower, slacker version of the original "best bike ever"
> With up to 6.5" of travel, the new Mutz 150 breaks all fatbike rules and is truly ready for anything!
> ...


Any geo changes for 2018? Still looks long in 
the chainstays ... if they got it under 17" it'd be sweet.

Edit: Found the Foes Facebook posting on the Mutz 150... it's not longer or lower, it's actually shorter in the TT and the chainstays were stretched 1/8". Nowhere does it say the travel is increased. The updated geo suggests a change in the HTA, not sure is the STA changed, and the longer CS is only 1/8".

Because the Mutz was originally designed around a Bluto 120mm fork, it has always had akward geo when paired with long travel forks like the Wren, Fox, and now the Mastodon. Foes is not great about providing accurate geo.

The Mutz would benefit from a full makeover, 75 deg STA, 430-435 CS, and a longer TT. When posting geo they need to specify fork travel.

All I'm seeing different in the Mutz 150 is a geo adjusted for 150mm travel fork, a slightly slacker HTA (0.5 deg), a slightly longer CS, and a shorter seat tube. No mention of more travel.


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

ChargeCookerMaxi said:


> Alright MTBR friends, I have joined the Mutz gang!!
> 
> I picked up a Mutz frame recently and upon receiving and unboxing two things became apparent.
> 
> ...


You bought a used full boinger fat bike? From somebody you don't know it sounds like? You like to live dangerously.


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

litespeedaddict said:


> You bought a used full boinger fat bike? From somebody you don't know it sounds like? You like to live dangerously.


Yup I did, although the ad was quite misleading. Had pictures showing an almost pristine bike.

Water under the bridge, a new coat of powder will fix all my problems there, just need to figure out the shock dealio.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

ChargeCookerMaxi said:


> Yup I did, although the ad was quite misleading. Had pictures showing an almost pristine bike.
> 
> Water under the bridge, a new coat of powder will fix all my problems there, just need to figure out the shock dealio.


Get a CC IL Coil, best choice for that type of bike, no effect in the cold, easilly adjusted for feel, only hard part is getting the spring weight correct.

The fork is a no brainer 

Might wanna look at replacing swingarm bearings, esp if you're gonna get it powder coated; gotta pull em anyhow.


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## STAGER1 (Sep 23, 2017)

That color is insane. And such a sleek design I love it. Is there no holes for bottle cage?


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

NH Mtbiker said:


> 2018 Foes Mutz 150 - Frame
> 
> The all new, longer, lower, slacker version of the original "best bike ever"
> With up to 6.5" of travel, the new Mutz 150 breaks all fatbike rules and is truly ready for anything!
> ...


I like the new one, it looks nice.
Unfortunately Foes lost me as a customer when they told me they stopped selling direct when I called to buy a Mixer. There isn't a dealer near me and the shops around me can't be bothered. It sucks because I'm all for supporting Made in USA and boutique brands. I guess they can afford to alienate customers because there really aren't any other places to buy bicycles


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Or, you could be happy that they're supporting bike dealers by not following the trend to sell direct. Honestly, you can't have it both ways, direct sales kills the LBS, all for a marginal cost savings to the buyer. I got my Mutz from a local shop.

You can buy direct from Lens Sport. Pricing for a Fatillac is similar to the Mutz...better frame design.



Nefariousd said:


> I like the new one, it looks nice.
> Unfortunately Foes lost me as a customer when they told me they stopped selling direct when I called to buy a Mixer. There isn't a dealer near me and the shops around me can't be bothered. It sucks because I'm all for supporting Made in USA and boutique brands. I guess they can afford to alienate customers because there really aren't any other places to buy bicycles


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## Nefariousd (May 1, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Or, you could be happy that they're supporting bike dealers by not following the trend to sell direct. Honestly, you can't have it both ways, direct sales kills the LBS, all for a marginal cost savings to the buyer. I got my Mutz from a local shop.
> 
> You can buy direct from Lens Sport. Pricing for a Fatillac is similar to the Mutz...better frame design.


No, after asking two local shops and being told they didn't have any interest in getting one for me again in typical western Washington bike shop douche speak (which is why I bought my first Mutz direct) I'm not going to be happy that they are doing that. 
It's not about the money it's about the relationship. When I bought my first one they were responsive friendly and helpful, very much unlike my local bike shops that are friendly until they get the money then give Zero ****s about follow up service helping with warranty items etc.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Call Evan Plews at Ridge Cyclesports in Wenatchee, he's a Foes dealer, he sold three Mutz through his shop, two for me, the other I built for a customer .



Nefariousd said:


> No, after asking two local shops and being told they didn't have any interest in getting one for me again in typical western Washington bike shop douche speak (which is why I bought my first Mutz direct) I'm not going to be happy that they are doing that.
> It's not about the money it's about the relationship. When I bought my first one they were responsive friendly and helpful, very much unlike my local bike shops that are friendly until they get the money then give Zero ****s about follow up service helping with warranty items etc.


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Call Evan Plews at Ridge Cyclesports in Wenatchee, he's a Foes dealer, he sold three Mutz through his shop, two for me, the other I built for a customer .


Completely random and unrelated question:

Are you a nurse, Ben?

Had a surge of curiosity


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## SAM313 (Jul 11, 2011)

Nefariousd said:


> I like the new one, it looks nice.
> Unfortunately Foes lost me as a customer when they told me they stopped selling direct when I called to buy a Mixer. There isn't a dealer near me and the shops around me can't be bothered. It sucks because I'm all for supporting Made in USA and boutique brands. I guess they can afford to alienate customers because there really aren't any other places to buy bicycles


 I live in Utah, bought mine from a dealer in Colorado, well, frame anyway, it was at my house in two days. Foes will tell you where your closest dealer is. One can't expect a small manufacturer like Foes to support a large dealer network.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nurse Practitioner.



ChargeCookerMaxi said:


> Completely random and unrelated question:
> 
> Are you a nurse, Ben?
> 
> Had a surge of curiosity


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Got a RockShox Vivid R2C coil shock on the Mutz. Awesome stuff. Cranking up the compression dial is highly effective for lockout as well. Thumbs up from me.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Yeah, I have done a few rides with my new CCDB coil CS with valt spring. It completely changed the feel of the bike vs the worn out CCDB Air CS that was on it. Cost me 9oz but the bike feels so much better now. Loving the lockout on the climbs and flat trail.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

*Mutz FTW*

Mother of God i love my Mutz!
It's a black used demo from Likin Bikin Amherst.
The icing on the cake is it's got Atomik Carbon rims on Hope Hubs.
Way too much fun!
it's a freaking Magic Carpet Ride!
i'm still in disbelief that I own it.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

JonnyB76 said:


> Mother of God i love my Mutz!
> It's a black used demo from Likin Bikin Amherst.
> The icing on the cake is it's got Atomik Carbon rims on Hope Hubs.
> Way too much fun!
> ...


Throw a 150 Mastodon Pro on it and you will be really blown away. Nice avatar BTW.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

kntr said:


> Throw a 150 Mastodon Pro on it and you will be really blown away. Nice avatar BTW.


Only the Special Kids ride the short bus my friend 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

JonnyB76 said:


> Only the Special Kids ride the short bus my friend
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


I ran the Bluto for a winter and a whole summer then switched to the Mastodon and I couldn't believe the difference. I want happy adding a pound but it was worth it.


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey crew,

I've been rolling w/ a Mutz since summer of 2016 - Only rode it like 2x times in 26x4 mode then was underwhelmed with the Bluto and swapped it to 27.5+ ~ swapped to a coil this summer and its been pure magic.

I'm running a Fox Float Boost 27.5+ that'll clear a 26x4 and the current+ setup with room to spare.

Curious to know if anyone is running a 27.5x4 on their Mutz w/ success? (e.g. what'll this frame clear?) 

I was planning to build another set of hoops for it, so I can do the 26x4 thing on 55-65mm rims, but if I could squeeze a 27.5 x 3.8 or 4" on the WTB scrapper i45s that'd be a bit cheaper... 

Any insight is greatly appreciated. 
Thanks
Brian


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

BroJangles said:


> Hey crew,
> 
> I've been rolling w/ a Mutz since summer of 2016 - Only rode it like 2x times in 26x4 mode then was underwhelmed with the Bluto and swapped it to 27.5+ ~ swapped to a coil this summer and its been pure magic.
> 
> ...


I see no reason why it wouldn't work. JUST DO IT!


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

@Chargecooker,

Love your drive amigo!!! I want to set my homie up for success, as well as myself when summer rolls around. I'm a little concerned that 3.8-4 on a 45mm rim could cause some problems... 

Looking for some folks who've taken the plunge and succeeded before I commit those tens of dollars I earn every day ;-)

Stoke on


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

I ran Hodags on 50mm Nexties on my ICT this summer and they cornered amazing and worked great. Wouldn't worry there bro!


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## Henry Hester (Jun 10, 2017)

I've got a red Mutz with gold wheels for sale. Any interest? 760 846-6800 Henry


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## ChargeCookerMaxi (Oct 25, 2015)

Henry Hester said:


> I've got a red Mutz with gold wheels for sale. Any interest? 760 846-6800 Henry


Highly recommend Henry's Mutz. Sweet bike.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Henry Hester said:


> I've got a red Mutz with gold wheels for sale. Any interest? 760 846-6800 Henry


Pics? Price? Etc


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

My new foes mutz 150 .., it's amazing! Greetings from Spain.









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

victorike77 said:


> My new foes mutz 150 .., it's amazing! Greetings from Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How about a build list? It's beautiful!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Did they go away from the monocoque frame?


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

avc8130 said:


> How about a build list? It's beautiful!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Parts
Frame: Foes Mutz 150. Size L
Rear Shock: DVO Topaz.
Fork: Manitou Mastodon Pro 150mm
Headset: Cane Creek 40
Handlebar: Enve Dh carbon 800mm
Stem: Syntace megaforce2 40mm 
Grips: Specialized XC Race XL
Brakes: Hope M4 Evo 
Shifters: SRAM X01 Eagle
Rear Derailleur: SRAM X01 Eagle
Cranks: Race face turbine 170mm 
Chainrings / Sprocket: Race face 30t
Bottom Bracket: Race face
Chain: SRAM X01 Eagle
Cassette / Rear Cog: SRAM X01 Eagle
Pedals: Spank Spike
Hubs: Dt Swiss 350 
Rims: Dt Swiss br710
Tires: Maxxis minion 4.8
Saddle: Essax extrem 
Seatpost: Brand-X Ascend XL
Weight: 37 lb 0 oz (16800g)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I officially have 4 wheelsets for my Mutz. This frame is a do all frame. Anyone else out there have multiple wheelsets for their Mutz?


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

kntr said:


> I officially have 4 wheelsets for my Mutz. This frame is a do all frame. Anyone else out there have multiple wheelsets for their Mutz?


I have 2 sets, 1st set 26" 80mm Atomik Carbon rims with Hope Pro 2 Evo fatsno hubs, rubber switches between 4.6" Flowbiest and Dunderbiest or 4.6" studded Wrathchilds, 2nd set 650B+ WTB Scraper i45 rims with Hope Pro 4 Fatsno hubs rubber is 3" WTB Rangers.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## Henry Hester (Jun 10, 2017)

*Other wheel sets Mutz*

I've had 27.5 rear and 29/3.0 front. And 4" fat tires front and back


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

JonnyB76 said:


> I have 2 sets, 1st set 26" 80mm Atomik Carbon rims with Hope Pro 2 Evo fatsno hubs, rubber switches between 4.6" Flowbiest and Dunderbiest or 4.6" studded Wrathchilds, 2nd set 650B+ WTB Scraper i45 rims with Hope Pro 4 Fatsno hubs rubber is 3" WTB Rangers.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


Ive got;
-65mm carbon Whisky with I9s and 4.0 VanHelgas
-82mm Holy Rolling Daryls with Salsa hubs and 4.6 studded Wrathchilds
-29" Flows with Salsa Hubs and 2.5/2.3 Minions

I just ordered 27.5+ wheelset with Hightoller 3.0s. They should be here soon.

How do you like the plus set up


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

I love it, no surprise i roll much faster on the 650B+, they grip well and still roll over stuff like a freight train!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Post some pics!

These were taken before the Mastodon. The plus wheelset will be here any day.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Sporting both wheel sets! 









Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Any other Mutz owners run different wheelsets?


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Suspension question, i just realized my shock is in the botom of the two adjustments for 5" vs 5.5" and that i have no idea which the bottom hole is, be it 5" vs 5.5". And how will switching effect ride characteristics and shock pressures between the two. Any help would be appreciated! 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

From Foes:

"The top hole will be the long travel hole at 5.5 and the lower hole will be 5."

Dunno as far as characteristics go. I've only ridden mine at 5.5".


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Maxxis HR2 27.5x3.0 tire wheelset now. This make 4 wheelsets.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Unfortunately the 27.5 x 4.0 Vanhelga doesn't fit in the Mutz, at least not with the 65mm wide Nextie rims. 
It's about 1/2" too tall. 
For now running this set up till I get a 27.5 x 3.8 Minion for the rear.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Hobine said:


> Unfortunately the 27.5 x 4.0 Vanhelga doesn't fit in the Mutz, at least not with the 65mm wide Nextie rims.
> It's about 1/2" too tall.
> For now running this set up till I get a 27.5 x 3.8 Minion for the rear.


Whats the setup?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

kntr said:


> Whats the setup?


Nextie 27.5 65mm rim in front with the Vanhelga. 26 Marge lite in the back with Juggernaut 26 x 4.5.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Hobine said:


> Nextie 27.5 65mm rim in front with the Vanhelga. 26 Marge lite in the back with Juggernaut 26 x 4.5.


What fork is that?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

kntr said:


> What fork is that?


Fox 34 boost at 140mm.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Hobine said:


> Fox 34 boost at 140mm.


Is it the 29er or the older 27.5+ fork? How close does the 27.5x4 Van Helga come to hitting? More pics please.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

kntr said:


> Is it the 29er or the older 27.5+ fork? How close does the 27.5x4 Van Helga come to hitting? More pics please.


It's the 27.5+ fork. More than 1/4" from the tire to the arc. The tire only measures 3.65" wide, so no issues there.


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

kntr said:


> Post some pics!
> 
> These were taken before the Mastodon. The plus wheelset will be here any day.


Hello! I've seen this mutz ... is it yours? What well set you take here? And tires? Regards!









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

victorike77 said:


> Hello! I've seen this mutz ... is it yours? What well set you take here? And tires? Regards!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, that is mine. See more pics above.

DT Swiss hubs with Raceface Arc 40 rims with Maxxis High Roller II in a 27.5x3.0. This is my favorite setup so far for summer riding in the alpine.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Hobine said:


> It's the 27.5+ fork. More than 1/4" from the tire to the arc. The tire only measures 3.65" wide, so no issues there.


Do you mind sharing the fork model codeon the back of the leg?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Do you mind sharing the fork model codeon the back of the leg?


It says "CYNT" on the left leg.


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

New updates for my mutz 150:
Seatpost 9point8 fall line 200mm, shimano saint brakes and raceface atlas pedals.









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Anyone know what the biggest 29" tire will fit in the Mutz?


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## SAM313 (Jul 11, 2011)

kntr said:


> Anyone know what the biggest 29" tire will fit in the Mutz?


Depends on what fork you run.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

SAM313 said:


> Depends on what fork you run.


LOL. In the Mutz not in the fork. Therefore in the back.


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## SAM313 (Jul 11, 2011)

kntr said:


> LOL. In the Mutz not in the fork. Therefore in the back.


None then. I can't even fit a 27.5


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm thinking about putting my Mutz 150 a set of 29+ wheels with SunRingle Duroc 50 rims, I think they would fit in behind.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

SAM313 said:


> None then. I can't even fit a 27.5.


I've got a 27.5+ on WTB i45 scraper running a 3.0 WTB Ranger and i have good clearance.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

SAM313 said:


> None then. I can't even fit a 27.5.


My 27.5x3.0 Highroller2s fit with lots of room. My 29x2.3 minions fit too. I wanna try a 29x2.6 or 2.8.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

I've got 27.5 x 3.8 on mine. Fits with adequate clearance.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Hobine said:


> I've got 27.5 x 3.8 on mine. Fits with adequate clearance.


So are you running 27.x3.8 Minion DHF front and DHR rear? Any more pics?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

kntr said:


> So are you running 27.x3.8 Minion DHF front and DHR rear? Any more pics?


Yes on the DHF / DHR combo. I tried the 27.5 x 4.0 Vanhelga but it was too tall for the rear and didn't fit.


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

Random Question...

I have a 2016 Mutz... This is the first season I've actually ridden it on snow, as it's stayed back in the midwest during winters and... its wicked fun on - - - all the things - 

I have been contemplating selling it b/c you know... gear-rich / cash poor, but given the versatility and smiles per mile -I'd rather cash in on experiences at this point and keep raging.

Curious about the Mutz 150 - Does anyone know if I could just buy a new rear triangle/ linkage to enhance the all around shred-ability?

Much love to the thread and beta y'all bestow 
Mahalo


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

So...what are the widest tires that the Mutz can accommodate for each wheel size? And is the same for both the classic frame and the 150mm?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I ran Dillinger 5s on Holy Daryls and they were close to the chain on the 1st generation. I had to run a OneUp chainring. It worked perfect.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

So...safe to say that a 4.6 tire on a 80mm rim will fit?

And is the max for a 29” rear wheel really just 2.35”?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

in the trees said:


> So...safe to say that a 4.6 tire on a 80mm rim will fit?
> 
> And is the max for a 29" rear wheel really just 2.35"?


Im running a 29x2.6 Ikon in the back and no problems.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Really?!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

in the trees said:


> Really?!


Plenty of room. Im thinking a 2.8 would work.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Any 5’10” rider on the Mutz 150? What size frame - Medium or Large? Stem length?


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

in the trees said:


> Any 5'10" rider on the Mutz 150? What size frame - Medium or Large? Stem length?


I am 181cm tall with 88cm crotch and I wear size L.
Stem 40mm.

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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Fox DPS or DPX2 vs DVO Topaz recommendations?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

in the trees said:


> Any 5'10" rider on the Mutz 150? What size frame - Medium or Large? Stem length?


The Mutz is big. Go medium.

Im 5'9" and the medium feels borderline too big. I run a 50mm stem.


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

kntr said:


> Yes, that is mine. See more pics above.
> 
> DT Swiss hubs with Raceface Arc 40 rims with Maxxis High Roller II in a 27.5x3.0. This is my favorite setup so far for summer riding in the alpine.


Hi. 
What diameter gives you the High Roller 27.5x3.0 in millimeters?
Thanks

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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

victorike77 said:


> Hi.
> What diameter gives you the High Roller 27.5x3.0 in millimeters?
> Thanks
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


Same as 26x4.0 and slightly smaller than 29x2.6.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Will a 34.9 seat post clamp work on the Mutz?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

kntr said:


> Will a 34.9 seat post clamp work on the Mutz?


Seatpost size is 31.6 so no.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Yes. 34.9/35mm seat clamps will work.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

in the trees said:


> Yes. 34.9/35mm seat clamps will work.


Yes, sorry my bad, I read "seat post" and missed the clamp part.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

What’s the max rear tire size for a 29er wheelset on the Mutz? And what rim width are you using?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

in the trees said:


> What's the max rear tire size for a 29er wheelset on the Mutz? And what rim width are you using?


I realize this question is several months old, but in case anyone is curious, 29x2.8 Terrene McFlys on 45i rims, fit in the Mutz no problem.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Hobine said:


> I realize this question is several months old, but in case anyone is curious, 29x2.8 Terrene McFlys on 45i rims, fit in the Mutz no problem.


Sweet, if i ever get to add a 3rd wheel set to my fleet, 29x2.8 will be my choice! first i need a Mastodon!!


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

My mutz150 with 29x2.6 wheels, rims sun ringle duroc 50, Suntour durolux 29 170mm fork and fox x2 .... for the next tire change I will use the 2.8

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## Shooter McGavin (Feb 14, 2007)

That is a beauty! Your pic has me thinking a 150 is my huckleberry... especially with the frame prices now dropped to $1999.


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

Anyone have a XL Mutz for sale??


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I want a Mutz ebike.


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

kntr said:


> I want a Mutz ebike.


Like this one?


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

What kit is that?


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

Bombin4X said:


> What kit is that?


I think it's his own using a Bosch motor. Foes made the one-off frame for him.


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

UPSed said:


> I think it's his own using a Bosch motor. Foes made the one-off frame for him.


Now that's fancy.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

For those of you running a Mastadon what travel length are you running?

I just ordered a Mastadon Pro EXT 120mm but I'm having it setup for 140mm.

Is the Mutz ok with it at 140mm or should I dial it back?

Thanks for the help everyone!! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

140 Mastodon on my Mutz. I love it.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

kntr said:


> 140 Mastodon on my Mutz. I love it.


 On a dry day I need to swap on the grey stickers!! Also I'm a Clydesdale clocking in at 250lbs for 20% I put it at 140psi. Anyone verify this is in the ballpark? Any pointers on hs and ls compression and where I should be on return speed?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

Im waiting for anyone to do a fulls sus fat bike with a gen 4 Bosch motor

I've got a Bosch gen 3 hai bike fat six hardtail

don't want the new hai bike with Yamaha motor, 

I really hope that Foes uses a Bosch

that one in the pics above doesn't look factory, and doesn't look Bosch, looks like an aftertmarlet bafang kit, hanging off from bottom bracket 

anyone got any good news for me ?


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

JonnyB76 said:


> On a dry day I need to swap on the grey stickers!! Also I'm a Clydesdale clocking in at 250lbs for 20% I put it at 140psi. Anyone verify this is in the ballpark? Any pointers on hs and ls compression and where I should be on return speed?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Got my first ride in on some rooty rocky New England single track, first impressions, holy amazeballs Batman! I'm beyond happy with my intial setup, good God the Mastadon Pro isn't even in the same solar system as my Bluto rct-3. And I did the shake down run with the aluminum 650b+ wheelset I can only imagine how it'll be with carbon 26 fat wheels. I'm one happy camper!! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Just measured my Mutz, doubling the distance from center of Axel to the two frame points radius is a diameter of 768mm by my measurements. According to the website I looked at (link below) 29x3 is 774.4 but 29x2.8 is 764.24 and verified by hobine with the McFly's. So the answer is 29x2.8 is the Max for a 29+ on my 140mm Mutz.

Still pretty motivated to push the wife for a set of 29x2.8 wheels

Thought this would be worth sharing.

https://www.bikecalc.com/wheel_size_math

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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

*29x3 fit A Ok*

I have Vittoria Bomboloni 29x3 on 29" RaceFace ARC 40 Asymetrical Rims at 40mm internal width with clearance

see pics





















i now have 3 wheelsets


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Here are some shots with it fully compressed, I've been running these for well over a month and i love um!


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

I just picked up a Mutz. I'd appreciate if anyone knows a setup where I can run a 4.6 tire without chain rub.

Thanks


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

11053 said:


> Is the seat tube angle on the Mutz really 70deg ?


I realize this thread is years old: the actual seat tube angle is 70 degrees. the effective seat tube angle measured from the center of the crank to the middle of the seat post level with the top of the head tube is closer to 76.

Whoever answers emails at Foes doesn't seem to know the difference between effective and actual seat tube angles.

I have a new to me Mutz and and working things out myself now. The bike came to me Sram with 11 speed and 4.8 tires on it and it was OK. But when I went to 12 speed there was chain rub because the Eagle cassettes are dished towards the spokes on the 50T cog. I'll run a 4.0 with some room to spare.

If there are any current Mutz owners still on around I would like to hear from you.


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

taxonomy said:


> I realize this thread is years old: the actual seat tube angle is 70 degrees. the effective seat tube angle measured from the center of the crank to the middle of the seat post level with the top of the head tube is closer to 76.
> 
> Whoever answers emails at Foes doesn't seem to know the difference between effective and actual seat tube angles.
> 
> ...


Hi. 
I have taken the mutz with maxxis minion 4.8, race face turbine cranks, -3mm offset chainring and the chain is very close to the tire










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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

Are you running the Minions with Sram 12 speed?


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

taxonomy said:


> Are you running the Minions with Sram 12 speed?


Yes... x01 Eagle 12v

The chain line was not very good, as I mounted the chainring upside down, but it worked fine.

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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Now the mutz I have it mounted with 29x2.6 and 170mm fork










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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

I plan on building a set of 29 wheels. Now I have 26x4 and 27.5x3. Honestly I like the 26x4s better. I wan't to run either the minions at 4.6 or some studded 4.6 tires for winter. 

Are you enjoying the 29x2.6?


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## victorike77 (Feb 12, 2017)

taxonomy said:


> I plan on building a set of 29 wheels. Now I have 26x4 and 27.5x3. Honestly I like the 26x4s better. I wan't to run either the minions at 4.6 or some studded 4.6 tires for winter.
> 
> Are you enjoying the 29x2.6?
> 
> I found that a ZS49 headset will work. This zero stack headset will drop the bike in the front if you're running a fork with a longer axle to crown than the 531mm Bluto fork the bike was designed around.


mine is the mutz150, the rear travel is 155mm and it is designed for a fork with 581mm ac as is the manitou mastodon 150. My rims are inner width 46mm with schwalbe magic mary 29x2.6 tires ... for me it is a very good combination, although I do not rule out trying a 29x2.8 tire

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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

Interesting podcast here. I always thought that the Mutz was named after mutts, because with different wheels it was sort of a mutt. But turns out it's named for Dan Mutz. Pretty cool podcast.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There’s a new version coming out soon, Brent is welding them up now. I found details on a site. Unfortunately, it’s using the same air-shock only leverage curve.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And...it's here!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

The new Mutz isn't on their website yet. What has changed?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> The new Mutz isn't on their website yet. What has changed?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> The new Mutz isn't on their website yet. What has changed?



Yesterday was a teething-run, seeing how well I got everything dialed, with a few things I was planning on changing anyway. We got lucky because we had a snow-storm hit and it was snowing in the morning and not yet warm, so some nice snow cover over some stuff, although still very thin. Now much of it has melted back to dirt and roots, except for some of the stuff higher up. That stuff higher up today was a blast though, coming down the DH trail, packed snow, jumps, berms, etc. Bike seemed to do really well on that, which is a big part of why I got it. Another reason I got this was shoulder season, which can be anywhere from a month to 3 months, depending on if we get snow. When the snow is low and the ground is frozen hard, it's nice to get some kind of relief to the impacts. So when I heard about the updates and confirmed what the geometry was, I asked our local dealer guy to order one for me. That was about 4 months ago now. The nice thing was that Foes was supposed to charge my deposit, but didn't, and the dealer ordered the frame with his own $$ because he knew I wanted it, even though I wasn't really committed.

Today was better. Although the brakes on it are probably not "final", yesterday I was still waiting on a hydro hose for the rear, so I had to run a shimano. At least in the current setup it'll work all winter 

Building it up, it all went mostly smooth...except the "internal routing dropper". It's not really internal routing. I mean, there's a hole...and there are gaps in the tubing to route the cable in front of the main pivot and up the ST, but there is no real provision for this in the frame. You can't see down the ST because the main pivot is huge and totally in the way. You can't see in the DT. There are no doors or things to open up to assist. The cable tends to go below the pivot and hit the end of the DT no matter what you do (as in no matter how much you twist the tubes to try and get the right angle). I ended up having to make coat-hanger "loop", insert this down and in front of that main pivot, where you can't see it at all, playing with the cable and the insertion distance until I thought maybe the cable went "through" the loop, then tugging on the hangar, as you can imagine, this took a long while, it also took me a while to come to this method, exhausting other simpler stuff first. In the end, I got it done, but beware, this is definitely the worst internal dropper I've done. My Chinese hardtail doesn't have internal routing and I internally routed a cable anyway through the front derailleur hole and into the DT and above the BB and into the ST. Even though that bike is not "supposed to" be internal, it was far easier than this (and it wasn't easy either).

Ok, so literally everything else is straightforward and easy. Cranks are 170 width. I got a recommendation from the local guy of 65mm rims. That seems to work well. With a zero offset chainring and the standard 2 driveside BB spacers and one ND side, there is ample clearance for the chain as far as tire-rub. There's about 10mm all around on each side of the tire to the stays, yoke, etc. These are old old stretched D5s from when they first started making D5s, but the newer tubeless ones may fit a little different. With that clearance, it seems like you might be able to take the next-size-up tire, like a Wrathchild/lord, but I think your chain clearance would be the limiting factor. It definitely will not take a 2XL, Bud/Lou or J5 type tire. While you could offset a chainring the other way (negative), I'd suspect your chainline would then be pretty screwy and you'd likely get grinding in the easier gears. A D5 on an 80 or 90mm rim may have a better chance of working and not rubbing the chain than a slightly bigger tire. I'm also on 11spd, so that too may give me a little more clearance. I'm on a +3 offset chainring because it's what I had. It's just barely clearing, which I'm fine with, but zero will be the right number and 3mm isn't going to buy you enough clearance to run a bigger tire IMO, looking at everything else. Yesterday my chain wasn't clearing on +6, so I was effectively locked out of my easiest gear. All this means to me that running D5 shouldn't be a problem, that's plenty big for what I want. The question down the road will be if 27.5x4 will fit. I don't _need_ 27.5x4 to fit, but I like options and I have tires. I seem to recall from last year that it should if the 26 D5s fit. Derailleur and brake cables are external, stupid-simple to set up.

Construction seems good, parts are beefy and stiff. This is another reason I got a Foes, since Foes has been making extremely stiff bikes since the get-go. I didn't have the best experience with my first Foes 20 years ago, but I think the problems with that were eventually addressed and frame stiffness was not one of them. With as big as fat-tires are and how wide it makes frames, they need to be very stiff to handle decently IMO, which this does. That is what Foes does best. Otherwise the wheels will "drive" the frame IMO, as they cause flex and your inputs don't have the intended effect.

Yes, that's a Next SL, the other side is an XX1, just waiting for that RF crankarm to break like the others...getting the most bang out of my buck 

Suspension _seems_ to be pretty linear, which seems to agree with the plotted path of the old one, although it was falling rate I believe on the old one. It's not so linear or falling I'm bottoming it on small stuff, but I have some thoughts on this that might explain everything. I noticed on the last winter FS bike that you tend to not hit anywhere near as hard in the winter, plus you need a lot of sensitivity for the suspension to do anything with those giant low pressure tires. The flatter leverage curve may assist with this, vs. if you are running this in the summer you might need a stiffer spring or even a progressive-spring. This is all kind of preliminary based on the first few rides, also compared to my GG bike with the same leverage rate and how it reacts. I think today I started to center in on some settings that worked pretty well. I can't say whether the bike is best with this Jade or a Topaz, since I haven't tried the Topaz. I do like coil shocks from the reliability point of view and better consistency in cold temps (no air spring where the pressure will radically change with temp). I really can't tell how linear the suspension is till I beat on it harder though. I do see why people "spring" for the Springdex springs on bikes like this. With the leverage ratio so low, even a relatively small spring change is going to result in a fairly big difference, helping you dial in the spring rate.

No complaints with geometry or riding position, all seems pretty natural. Again, I took it DH today with some jumps and features and it was great. Short stays are great for wheelies, but that's about it, there's just so much more to geometry and construction that when added up has a more beneficial effect.

I do wish for a bit more frame-storage. I like being able to pack a packable jacket and some water somewhere. I can use revelate feed-bags for some of it, but water on the frame in a place that didn't interfere with anything would be nice.


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## g60vw (Jun 20, 2016)

Jay,

Who is our local dealer for Foes anyways?

Oh, and are they still 177 rear?

Garth


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

g60vw said:


> Jay,
> 
> Who is our local dealer for Foes anyways?
> 
> ...


I'll PM you


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

Ugh, I wish they'd list the stats in metric since this is the 21st century. 

I believe it's more modern with a steeper seat tube angle and a longer top tube and reach. I called Foes to get the effective seat tube angle of the "classic" and they said it was 70.5 but it's not. That's the actual. They said it was both the actual and effective, which could only be true with a straight seat tube. So, no luck there. When I measured my medium classic all the numbers were really strange. Super short top tube and reach. I think the seat tube was effective 75 degrees, but I don't really care as it's just a super fun bike to ride.


It's still 177 at the back, which I think is super weird.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Why is the new Mutz not on their website?


----------



## Wovk (Jun 9, 2017)

I dunno James. Alibaba meets Frankenbuild. Maybe stick to the Camaro?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Wovk said:


> I dunno James. Alibaba meets Frankenbuild. Maybe stick to the Camaro?


Well, despite the build not meeting Wovk's approval, the bike is working pretty well. We got some more early-season snow and I got out early this morning before things started to thaw and fall apart. Ran into a big cluster of moose...big as in at least 20 in the immediate area. They were fighting and gathering. I had to change my plans and not come back that way, since it would be too dangerous with that many moose. Rode some of the DH trails though and it's pretty fun, especially to make some of the features and jumps that I do in the summer with good control. Got the Next crankarm off and punched the spindle out and put the xx1 on...since the RF busted the pedal insert again (was just an extra arm I had lying around anyway). I think the Jade coil is working pretty well, it's nice to be able to dial in the HSC and LSC just right. It seems like you want some pretty low LSC on these to help the wheels move in the snow, where impacts are generally less and the tire generally deforms first, but if blowing through travel, some HSC helps to keep it up there a bit and for the g-outs/jumps, etc. LSC can keep it up too, but then it starts bouncing off of the roots on the fast stuff, but again, nice to be able to tune these, rather than stuck with a 3-setting or on/off climb lever. This setup might not work as well in the summer, since the hits will be harder and will use more travel, as in the leverage curve may on the flat side which helps the shock move in the winter on the generally softer impacts, in the summer an air shock might be a bit better for more end-stroke resistance. It definitely cross-chains quite a bit with a 0mm offset chainring, but that seems to be the ticket to running a Dillinger 5 tire, which measures 4.35 on my calipers with the 65mm rim. There might be a way to fine tune a little closer by taking a BB spacer out and using the preload adjuster on the crank-arm, but IME those tend to not stay put, not sure it'll make much difference anyway. 

I like the riding position, geometry is decent, which is a big upgrade from the previous numbers IMO. BB height is good, low enough, but not so low I'm scraping on every pedal stroke. I feel like I'm not leaning way back for climbs, but not pushed too forward on flats where there'd be too much pressure on my hands (which is an issue with some of the newer geometry).


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Where are you located with that much snow already?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> Where are you located with that much snow already?


Anchorage. It's been on and off though, for the last couple weeks we got a little snow towards the weekend, then it melts out. Ground isn't fully frozen, so snow isn't staying and it gets pretty nasty in the afternoon in spots. Some days it still hits in the 50s. Go up a little higher and earlier in the morning though, like I did, and it's decent. This won't last more than a couple days unless we get some significant snow though, to help insulate the ground. Another half a month or so and our ground will be frozen most the time.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Wovk said:


> I dunno James. Alibaba meets Frankenbuild. Maybe stick to the Camaro?


Even less snow now, but the bike is doing great, a few small upgrades. Had to stop suddenly for a moose.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks like Jayem found a bicycle thief lurking...


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## sb1616ne (Feb 13, 2008)

Awesome bike! What size are you running? I am curious about seatpost insertion.




Jayem said:


> Even less snow now, but the bike is doing great, a few small upgrades. Had to stop suddenly for a moose.
> View attachment 1955901
> View attachment 1955902
> View attachment 1955903
> ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sb1616ne said:


> Awesome bike! What size are you running? I am curious about seatpost insertion.


Size large, it's a 170 dropper. Not sure how much further down I could go, could probably do a 190 easy, but I also like having the jerry-can bag (where my spare tube lives) attached to the seat-tube. I also don't believe in the largest dropper possible, as they get more problematic at the longer lengths and it's diminishing returns IME. What you run into eventually is the main pivot, and it's pretty far down there.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Any grizz in the areas you ride?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

prj71 said:


> Any grizz in the areas you ride?


Yeah, they are around, they aren't as common to see, black bears are more common and then Moose are WAY more common than both and WAY more dangerous than both.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I see bear tracks often. There is a big griz in the area I usually go.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

Anyone run a 203 rear rotor on their Mutz? I plan on doing it with my 2017.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Foes is helping a lot with my recovery from my injury and resulting knee surgery. Suspension. I'm able to get back out now and ride singletrack trails, but can't climb hard stuff yet. Also posting because I know I've seen a red Mutz with a 2003/4 Monster T, but I've been searching for it and can't find it. I'd give a lot for a proper coil fork for the winter. Anyway, I won a few races last winter on this, despite www.ridefatbikes.ca's derogatory posts above and the internet badging they were doing.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jray02r1 said:


> Anyone run a 203 rear rotor on their Mutz? I plan on doing it with my 2017.


I'm on a 180. I don't see why a 203 wouldn't work.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

jray02r1 said:


> Anyone run a 203 rear rotor on their Mutz? I plan on doing it with my 2017.


Yes I ran Shimano 203's front and rear. You just need the right adapter. Easy peasy.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

Excellent to hear. ThNks guys


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

I am running a 203 rear on my 2016. No problem.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

What gearing are you guys running? I'm just getting my bike together now and I am trying to make sure to get it setup right so I don't have to change a bunch of stuff later on. I bought the frame second hand, so a bunch of the parts it came with I am swapping out. Currently my mutz has a Wolftooth 32t chainring and a Shimano XT 11 speed shifter/derailleur/cassette. The previous owner mentioned possibly swapping the chainring for a 30t if he had the bike longer. I am in the position where I would like to have a new Cassette and chainring since there is some wear on the current parts. My Cassette is the XT M8000 11-46t. My first thought was to move to a 30t or 32t oval chainring and buy the same rear cassette as I already have. I have hope hubs with the traditional Shimano HG style freehub. Is it worth it for me to buy into a 12 speed swap? I dont have any ride time with the current setup to be my own judge, but i also dont want to buy stuff just to replace it later. What about a 11-50t cassette? 
What are some of the common setups you are using?


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

11 and 12 speed will produce chain rub on the lower run of the chain with 4.8 tires. This run of chain is not tensioned and it isn't a problem unless it bothers you. Either way it's fine. I ran both 11 an 12 and didn't have a problem. 

You can also run the Box Prime 9 and it's pretty great. It'll go on a standard HG cassette and shifts easy. It has bigger jumps between gears and wont get as high a gear because the smallest tooth is 11 but it's fine.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

I didn't think about chain rub, definitely not a fan of it. I have some van helga 4.2's for now and probably wont go much wider. I did consider grabbing a studded tire potentially, but i am not there yet. I want to build a summer wheelset as well (27.5+ likely). I leaning towards just staying with an 11 speed setup, unless everyone thinks 12 is the way to go. If I do stay 11 speed, would it be worth it to try the sunrace 11-50 vs grabbing another shimano 11-46?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jray02r1 said:


> What gearing are you guys running? I'm just getting my bike together now and I am trying to make sure to get it setup right so I don't have to change a bunch of stuff later on. I bought the frame second hand, so a bunch of the parts it came with I am swapping out. Currently my mutz has a Wolftooth 32t chainring and a Shimano XT 11 speed shifter/derailleur/cassette. The previous owner mentioned possibly swapping the chainring for a 30t if he had the bike longer. I am in the position where I would like to have a new Cassette and chainring since there is some wear on the current parts. My Cassette is the XT M8000 11-46t. My first thought was to move to a 30t or 32t oval chainring and buy the same rear cassette as I already have. I have hope hubs with the traditional Shimano HG style freehub. Is it worth it for me to buy into a 12 speed swap? I dont have any ride time with the current setup to be my own judge, but i also dont want to buy stuff just to replace it later. What about a 11-50t cassette?
> What are some of the common setups you are using?


11spd 30x9-50 (e13).

I run Dillinger 5 or Wrathchild 4.6 (current) tires. No chain rub...but I spaced the crankset just right and it's tight obviously there. You can't do a bigger (wider) rear tire, the chain basically limits it. I might get just a hair of chainrub in some situations with the Wrathchilds, but I definitely didn't with the D5s. Bigger tires are not going on it...I at least wanted to be able to run D5s on this bike, so I'm pretty happy about that.

As far as 11 or 12, as long as you can get the gearing low enough for you, there's no reason for one over the other. M8000 cassette works fine. The 9t on the E13 is all but useless IME. The 50t is plenty of gearing, but a 46 would be pretty close.


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

In all honesty the 177 spacing on the Mutz is obsolete and the worst part of the bike. The chain rub is on the lower run and the chain doesn't really press on the tire so much as brush against it. It doesn't matter in practice.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

taxonomy said:


> In all honesty the 177 spacing on the Mutz is obsolete and the worst part of the bike. The chain rub is on the lower run and the chain doesn't really press on the tire so much as brush against it. It doesn't matter in practice.


I actually like the 177 spacing. Im not a fan of the 197.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

taxonomy said:


> In all honesty the 177 spacing on the Mutz is obsolete and the worst part of the bike. The chain rub is on the lower run and the chain doesn't really press on the tire so much as brush against it. It doesn't matter in practice.


The 177 spacing is definitely out of favor compared to the newest bikes. But finding a full suspension fatbike is tough too. It makes finding wheels a bit tougher, but there are so many variables for fat bikes that buying a set of wheels is almost never easy. I built mine as most others have. I think I'm going to just stay 11t and get the same cassette the bike had. If anything, I will have a backup on hand if necessary. The 32t oval sprocket should help some. I think my money is better spent upgrading my brakes from the older 2 piston Shimano Deore Brakes. I'm looking at the Hayes Dominion A4/Shimano Saint or XT's/Magura MT7 Pro/Hope V4's. Maybe I can find a sweet deal somewhere (possibly used even). The plan is to run 203's front and rear.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> I actually like the 177 spacing. Im not a fan of the 197.


Yeah, Q is better, while it's somewhat limiting, this isn't the kind of bike for J5/2XL kind of tires. Not saying that there can't be a suspension bike for those tires, but this bike lacks some of the things I'd expect to see with a more serious fat-bike (for winter), like frame-space for a frame bag of some kind, or bottle mounts (that can be used for a frame bag, pump, etc.), and so on. It's a great ride, but 177 never comes across my mind as an issue...and I also have a 197 fatbike at the same time. 197 goes a little too far IME, they came out with that standard while there were still 3x and 2x drivetrains and there's about 10mm too much in the crank spindle width for 99.9% of what people run on fatbikes. There's enough 177 stuff our there that this isn't an issue for the foreseeable future IMO. The bike already has to be super-beefy due to how wide it is, to prevent flex. Going even wider would be...well, yet another level in that chart.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jray02r1 said:


> The 177 spacing is definitely out of favor compared to the newest bikes. But finding a full suspension fatbike is tough too. It makes finding wheels a bit tougher, but there are so many variables for fat bikes that buying a set of wheels is almost never easy. I built mine as most others have. I think I'm going to just stay 11t and get the same cassette the bike had. If anything, I will have a backup on hand if necessary. The 32t oval sprocket should help some. I think my money is better spent upgrading my brakes from the older 2 piston Shimano Deore Brakes. I'm looking at the Hayes Dominion A4/Shimano Saint or XT's/Magura MT7 Pro/Hope V4's. Maybe I can find a sweet deal somewhere (possibly used even). The plan is to run 203's front and rear.


There simply aren't enough fat bikes around that many fat bike wheels are readily available pre-built...We have them in town because we are one of the fat-bike capitals, but this is a niche, it's not the same market as say, boost enduro bikes or other stuff where you can order pre-built wheelsets all day long. You often have to either go real low end with fat bike wheelsets...or custom builds...regardless of the hub size, just due to the scarcity.

Hope T3V4s are weaker than shimano 2-piston servo wave brakes. I made them more powerful with bigger rotors. I haven't tried my T4V4s yet though. I use the hopes due to the fact that they work normally in the extreme cold...and the shimanos do not. There may be better options if this isn't a concern.


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

I ride my Foes specifically in winter and shoulder seasons so I am always on 4.6 plus. I fooled around with smaller wheels and tires but I just have a regular bike for that. I'd much rather have the extra tire capacity when it matters most. I was actually shocked when the V3 or whatever it was came out. I was so surprised it wasn't 197. i prefer older, less progressive geometry so this isn't a step forward for me.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

What have you guys used for downtube protection on the Mutz?


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## taxonomy (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't use down tube protection on this bike. It's heavy aluminum. It doesn't need it. It won't crack like carbon. If you ride a lot in snow as I do it matters even less. I recognize this in myself, don't worry about stuff. Just build the bike and ride it. In a few months you can reconsider things. I ran this bike for a couple of years with one pot XT brakes and then went to a lot of trouble to upgrade to two pot. It didn't make a lot of difference. I'm not really max braking. I am not riding off cliffs. I've run a lot of drivetrains on it too. GX, Origin 8, 11 speed, 12 speed etc. None of it really matters a lot. It's a heavy bike so a big bail out gear is more necessary than on other bikes but, basically, it doesn't matter. SLX/GX or better and the performance is so good it doesn't matter. Bigger rotors are cheaper than new calipers and provide much the same result but unless your running wide or off the trail it doesn't matter.


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## jray02r1 (3 mo ago)

I only ask about the downtube protection as my frame has a small pin dent down there from the previous owner. The bike is almost completed, waiting for a few parts to arrive now. I have more time to think about the setup now while I'm waiting than just trying it out and adapting later. The sprocket I have on hand turns out to be the wrong one all together. So now I have to replace that. As stated earlier in the thread, I am using a Shimano XT 11 speed 11-46t cassette. Looking on wolftooths site, I see they recommend a standard non-boost (6mm offset) sprocket for 177mm rear spaced bikes. What have you guys used on your setups for chainring offset? I plan on running 4.2" wide tires and maybe a studded 4.6 max. I'm leaning towards grabbing an oval 30t currently, but I would like to hear what offsets have worked well on this bike before I order one.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

30t


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