# Better deal than an '08 p.1?



## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

So I think I am gonna drop some cash on an urban bike this summer because I dont want to beat up my enduro dropping stair sets and casing dirt jumps.
I want a good sturdy complete bike but dont want to drop more than I have to...
I am loving the build and price of the '08 P.1. Are there any better deals?
(...I know a lot of guys are big fans of the nighttrain but it didn't appeal to me for some reason...)

*On a side note, I actually really dislike SS but I figure if I give it a chance (more than the week I gave it before) I will adjust.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Black market .357


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Yeah, that 357 is an amazing bike but I am going to be picky and say that I definitely want to run a front break and I really don't want to spend an extra $200 unless its for adding a geared setup.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Gears are totally un-needed in a street/dj environment IMO, you'll love the simplicity.

The 357 does look like an amazing value


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## SHowley2003 (Feb 21, 2008)

I am probably going to get laughed at for this one. But check out the 08 Haro Thread 1. THe geometry is amazing and the bike comes with a great parts spec for the price. I have beat the hell out of mine for over a year now (I work in a shop and was able to get it early) and I have loved it. The wheels are amazingly durable and the drop out problem was completely been resolved. Check it out, for the price it can't be beat.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Eastern Night Train? $899 at JensonUSA.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

GotMojo? said:


> Eastern Night Train? $899 at JensonUSA.


I'm starting to wonder how much reading is "too much" for most people...

What are you talking about spending an extra 200 on a front brake?! I'll tell you right now that the "promax" it comes with is a piece of ****. You will want to replace that out of the box anyhow - but why not go with something that will make you happier in the end after spending a bit more cash...?


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Uh...um...what?
Okay...what I actually meant was spending $200 on a rear drive train. I would like to have a front brake but I suppose I could like without it. So, does that clear things up for you? If not, I can't really clear things up for you any more than that. Also, if you could enlighten me as to what you mean by "promax", that would be lovely, as I can't find anything on the Eastern being a "promax" anything.

For all those of you actually paying attention to my post:
Now that I have looked at specs and parts for a while, I think the Eastern is a good buy but I am not sure about the "steep" head angle as I am used to really slack-angled hardtails. Problem is that it will be a while before I am ready to buy it...have to wait and see if that deal is still around in a month.

I am still open to suggestions though.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

anti-spandex said:


> Yeah, that 357 is an amazing bike but I am going to be picky and say th*at I definitely want to run a front break and I really don't want to spend an extra $200 unless its for adding a geared setup*.


That statement implies you don't want to spend 200 to "add" a front brake. Thats how I took it then and after reading it again - still how I take it. Not at all trying to be a dick.... Sorry for misinterpreting what you had said.

The nighttrain is a killer deal for what you get - the "steep" HA will help for more street-type moves. It makes the bike more agile and "quicker" on the steering. Unless you plan on riding the hardtail just to huck things and drop steps - then it shouldnt be an issue for you.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Cool. Thanks man, that explains more about the handling for me. I think I am going to keep reading some more the the Night Train reviews and weigh my options.


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## the_godfather (Jan 19, 2007)

giant stp, p. series, kona dirt jump range, the other eastern completes are pretty cool, ns completes like the holy (rigid) or the core and metropolis. if you would like the slacker HA then the core maybe for you. longer travel fork with a slack HA


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

You will spend way more than $200 replacing the crappy components that come on a p.1.

Go with the .357. It comes with NOTHING that you need to replace.

I see this time and time again at the shop. Someone comes in, buys the lowest cost bike and ends up replacing 60% of the components. Then they have nice components on a crappy frame. Then they get a new frame. From a shop perespective this is the IDEAL customer.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

ya, i wouldn't get the P1 either just because of the parts that come on it. I test rode the 08 short P1 SS and although it was a surprisingly good feeling bike besides the stupid low BB, the parts that come on it aren't that impressive. the new eastern completes are crazy nice...as well as the Blk Mrkt.


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## mild beast (Jan 15, 2008)

that's a hell of a signature, spandex-man.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

I bought a STP SS last year and while I love the geo, the part spec was somewhat similar to the P1 and, you guessed it, I've replaced several of the parts.
Wheels
Bars
Cranks and BB
Stem
Chain

I'd like to ditch the marz dj4 for something better to but since its holding up well enough I'm keeping it for now.

That is a lot _more_ money that could have been put toward a better spec'd bike to begin with.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Thanks for the input guys! 
Yeah, I apparently suffered amnesia and forgot that on my old Kona HT I ended up destroying the wheels in no time. It sounds like it would be the same old story with the P. 1. I am actually beginning to like the idea of getting a Night Train...the geometry looks great (adding a long travel fork to a ht is the dumbest thing I have ever done to a bike - totally ruined the handling!) :madman: 
Hmm...well I am still waiting on the infamous Economic Stimulus Package before I make any decisions.

Does anyone know who sells the 357? I saw it on oldskoolcycles.com via another post but haven't found any others who carry it...


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## Formerbmx37 (Apr 7, 2007)

beyondbikes.com
theyre in san diego i believe


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## DJskeet (Oct 19, 2007)

I kinda like the NS Metropolis2 for a complete bike. It really has everything you need for a reasonable price.

Check it out on their website: http://www.ns-bikes.com/

bb5s are all you really need.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

anti-spandex said:


> *On a side note, I actually really dislike SS but I figure if I give it a chance (more than the week I gave it before) I will adjust.


for urban/dj/street, SS is the way to go IMO. i didnt think i would like it at first, but i sent my rear der. thought my rim after casing a DJ and that was that last of that. i got a $20 SS kit, found a good gearing (it came with different size cogs), and its GREAT, its realy simple, makes your bike look cleaner (less cables), and theres less stuff to go wrong. if you just find the right gear ratio, you will fall in love with SS :thumbsup:

just my 2 cents

... man its been a while since i posted here, due to the cold/snow i havent been riding...the cold isnt really my thing, but tomorow is going to be 50* so im gonna get out a ride!


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

From what I can see, the .357 complete doesn't have a better spec than the P1. Not $200 better anyway. Unless you totally dislike the low-BB on the P1 (it'll take getting used to), get it; ride it until you break something; replace the broken stuff.

Heck, after looking at the parts spec in detail, the P1 is a deal.


357:
100% 4130 cromo frame, same geometry as Mob frame
73mm Euro BB, integrated head tube
FSA “Impact” Integrated headset
Marzocchi “Dirt Jumper 3” 80mm fork
Tapered alloy 25.4 clamp handlebar
Blk Mrkt forged “Underboss” stem
Cromo 3-piece heat-treated cranks
Blk Mrkt “Revolver” sprocket
Blk Mrkt “Brass Knuckles” seat and “Riot Stick” seat post
Sealed bearing alloy hubs
Promax rear mechanical disk brake
Wellgo pedals with cromo spindles
Kenda "K-Rad" 2.3 tires front and rear 


P1:
FRAME Specialized 100% Cr-Mo, double-butted HT/DT, externally relieved HT, disc mount, 6mm offset horizontal drop out for 26" wheel w/ replaceable 98954020 alloy hanger, disc only 
FORK Marzocchi DJ3, 100mm, 32mm Cr-Mo stanchions and 1 1/8" Cr-Mo steerer, fixed rate catridge damping, coil/mcu w/ preload adj, "stiff" spring 
HEADSET Tank FX, 1 1/8" threadless w/ hollow bolt 
STEM Truvativ Hussefelt, forged alloy, 31.8mm, 0 degree rise 
HANDLEBARS Specialized butted alloy 31.8mm, 640mm wide, 50mm rise, 8 degree back, 8 degree up sweep 
FRONT BRAKE Avid BB-5, mechanical disc, 6" G2 Clean Sweep rotor 
REAR BRAKE Avid BB-5, mechanical disc, 6" G2 Clean Sweep rotor 
BRAKE LEVERS Avid FR-5 
CRANKSET Fuse tubular heat treated Cr-Mo 3pc, 175mm 
CHAINRINGS 34A w/ poly bash guard 
BOTTOM BRACKET Fuse Euro, alloy cups, 4x cartridge bearings, 19mm heat treated Cr-Mo 8 spline spindle 
PEDALS Specialized alloy platform, 9/16" 
RIMS Specialized/Alex HRD 26, double wall disc w/ eyelets 
FRONT HUB Specialized P.Disc, CNC high flanges and disc mounts, 36h, nutted 3/8" axle 
REAR HUB Specialized P.Disc, cassette, CNC high flanges and disc mounts, 36h, nutted 3/8" axle 
FRONT TIRE Specialized Rhythm Control, 26x2.3", 60TPI, aramid bead 
REAR TIRE Specialized Compound Control, 26x2.2", 60TPI, aramid bead 
SADDLE Specialized Fuse, 8mm rails, PVC bumpers front and rear 
SEAT POST Specialized two bolt, no offset, micro adjust, 30.9mm


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Yeah, you have a point about the parts spec. I think with the 357 you are paying for a nicer frame than the p.1.
Does anyone know anything about the wheels on the 357? 
I know that no matter which bike I get, thats whats going to get beat up the most.

As far as geometry goes, I am leaning toward the Eastern although I know the 357 (mob) has gotten big press for being an amazing ht. I need to give the 357 a longer look.

Any 357 owners want to weigh in about your favorite/least favorite aspects of the bike?


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Actually after reading the parts comparison, I may have to take back the statement that nothing needs to be replaced. I was not aware of the complete spec list for the .357.

However I would still rather have the better frame geometry from BlkMrkt. I love my Riot and I can't even describe how well it handles. I had a p.2 and I hated everything about it. Low BB, tt felt like ass for length and the bike felt like it weighed 40lbs.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

That's how I feel about the 357...the price tag of $1000 is mostly due to the frame.
I am actually hoping I can come up with the cash for it because I found out the TT is shorter than the Eastern.
The ironic part of all this is that I have a perfectly good Evil Imperial frame sitting at my house, but by the time I put it together it would be as much if not more than buying a complete! :madmax:


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> I had a p.2 and I hated everything about it. Low BB, tt felt like ass for length and the bike felt like it weighed 40lbs.


I've got an '07 P2 cro-mo. It is heavy--damn close to 40lbs if not over by a hair. It weighs almost as much as my SXT. The fork is the big part of that I think--along with the drivetrain and chain-guide. I've gotten used to the low-BB (after clipping a pedal once and getting high-sided). I like the long TT length. I tried an earlier year model P-bike and with the short TT I was getting toe-rub. The CS are nice and short--I'm sure I'd appreciate that if I could manual worth a damn.

Best bet--as always--is to ride-it before you buy-it. May be a prob if you can't find a 357 anywhere. A friend has a riot (are they very similar geo?) and it's crazy small feeling for me (I'm 6') compared to my P2.

P.S. I'm not a fan of integrated headsets on ANY bike so the 357 would be a no-go for me from the start.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Yeah, I am only 5' 5" which is why I am leaning toward the 357.

What exactly is the problem with having an integrated headset? I honestly don't know much about them.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Nothing wrong with an integrated headset. It does the same exact thing except you don't have to install cups. In fact it makes switching frames that much easier. There are good and cheap quality headsets out there - just like non-integrated headsets. You get what you pay for.

The Riot is the .357 frame. Same exact thing, just different paint and comes as a complete.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

I think that its gonna be the 357 for me!
Who knows though...its looking like it will be May before I have enough to get one.
I saw the pics of your Riot demo-9, and I am sold on the geometry, build kit and the company. Any other input or advice for me?


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## spzero (Jan 15, 2008)

i got an p1 it rocks (apart from low bb) but i got a good deal from shop traded the brakes for hope m4's for an extra £150.00 they are a few things that need changing like the pedels but if it aint broke dont fix it. when these knack up ill get some decent ones..


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

if you choose a p1 over a 357, then something is wrong with you.

look at weights too, want a 34lb bike? get a p1. everyone i know bought one, replaced the brake, fork, wheels and bars out of the box. and then some other stuff too.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

The 357 is actually a great build because (according to BeyondBikes) it comes with mostly BlkMrkts own parts. I am going to have to wait longer and probably sell my Imperial frame but I think I am gonna go for the 357. The short TT, overall geometry, amazing frame, and great build are worth it to me.
I am sure I could learn to love the P.1 but would probably regret not dropping the extra $200 for the 357.


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## Dirtydj (Nov 24, 2007)

I saw that you mentioned Old Skool Cycles. Send them an offer, I know they work with people on the pricing.


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## BIKESerFUN (Sep 5, 2007)

if ur gonna buy a market u better hurry. the white is sold out and the black is looking the same way


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I'd spend $500 more to not get a p.1. IMO they suck on every aspect. They do come with slightly better components, but a MUCH worse geometry.


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## Dirtydj (Nov 24, 2007)

I am friends with John at Old Skool and I know he has the black in small and the white in large.


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

I think I've decided! ...and ironically its not any of the bikes I had been considering.
I will wait until I know for sure I am getting it to let the proverbial cat out of the bag.
The thing is that I am waiting on a job offer before I buy it...I should know by next week.
But dammit! I want to order it now!


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## juancancook (Aug 30, 2006)

*Might be a moot pioint but...*

Have you looked into a DK Xenia? Not entirely a bad build and comes in @ $600. Really, the only thing I swapped on mine was the pedals, bars (stock bars I just couldn't get used to), and the fork. The pedals were outright swaps, the bars after a couple months, and the fork as soon as I could afford an upgrade. Put a KHE freecoaster MTB hub on it later on because I'm trying to lean how to do everything to fakie and I hate back pedalling. It has tie downs for full length derailleur housing and with any of the der dropout additions from say Supercross you could turn it into a geared bike easily. Just a thought.


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## dirtjumper202 (May 11, 2007)

cannondale chase is a soild build and for 08 they have geared or non geared


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## imprezawd (Feb 20, 2008)

I got the Eastern Nighttrain for 895 shipped. Love the bike!! SOLID and awesome components !! 
I would go Eastern or 357!!


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## anti-spandex (Feb 6, 2004)

Hmm...that DK looks like a decent bike for a great price. But looks a bit tall. I need as much standover as I can get for dirt and urban.


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## brian_404 (Jan 28, 2007)

I'd get any of the Specialized P series or the Black Market. You can get the Black Market frame Mob or Riot, and build it up yourself. Or you can get the complete Black Market .357 and they are $1000.00 dollars. About $80.00 dollars more than P2 cr-mo...
I'm selling my Specialized Bighit to do a Black Market Mob build.
I _LOVE_ my 2007 Specialized P2 cr-mo. Here the tread were I posted an update on my P2.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=390885
I run geared and S.S. depending on my mood that month. You can save money and test ride both to see what you like. If you ride _a lot_ of urban. You will like having the extra gears. But S.S. is cleaner, and less things to go wrong.
If it was me? Specialized P series or the Black Market... 
You need to post some pics when you get it... 
_ GOOD LUCK..._


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