# Breaking spokes. Options?



## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

I've had my new bike for less than a month (put on about 200 miles) and I've already broken two spokes on the rear. Both spokes broke at the bend at the hub. I didn't really have an extra $500+ budgeted for a new wheelset. I weigh about 290. Wheel size is 29er, 15x100mm in the front and 12x142mm in the rear. What are my options? Would relacing the wheels with stronger spokes solve the problem, and does it make sense to put more money into these stock wheels?

I'm currently using the stock Bontrager wheels: "15mm oversized front hub, Bontrager sealed cartridge bearing 142x12 alloy axle rear hub w/Bontrager Duster 28-hole Tubeless Ready disc rims"


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

So you weigh 290lbs and expected to not have issues with wheels made for the "Avg Guy" who weighs about 160-200lbs AND only 28 spokes :skep: What bike are these on and are you riding the bike within it's intended usage expectations, especially knowing you are way over the designed for weight range?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Have a mechanic that knows how to build wheels go over them and make sure the spokes are properly tensioned. That's a big issue with machine built wheels and most stock wheels are machine built unless you buy a really highend bike, then you might get hand built. Once the tension is checked and deemed ok...you may have fewer problems. But...that said...at your weight you are still really pushing the limits of a cheaper stock wheelset and a 28 spoke one at that. 

28 spokes on the front will probably be ok. If you are able or when you are able, you should consider investing in a new rear wheel at least. Something 32 spoke, hand built with quality parts. No cheap spokes. Something like a DT Swiss double butted competition spoke with brass nipples. They will work great and last a long time. Get something with a convertible hub so you can move that wheel from bike to bike.

That said...a lot also has to do with how you ride. If you are doing drops and jumps and just hammering stuff like a bull crashing through a china shop, you will break stuff. A 290 pound rider is going to be harder on any equipment and assuming this is more entry level stuff to begin with...it's going to be even worse. So you need to ride within the limits of the bike until you either lose weight or upgrade parts or both. I've ridden as heavy as 320 pounds on an entry level bike and never broke anything...so it can easily be done. I rode hard too but not so hard to tear stuff up. You just have to be a little more careful picking lines and keeping both tires on the ground. I'm currently 250 and actually riding a wheelset on my gravel bike that's 24 spokes...and they are perfectly fine...a lot is the equipment, but a lot is up to you and how you ride too. If I used those wheels on my mountain bike and started hitting rocks and roots with them...they'd probably be toast pretty quick.

As far as upgrading the spokes on this wheel set...that's an option...but you're looking at at least $28 a wheel for spokes...another little bit for nipples (go brass...stay away from aluminum), plus labor charges to rebuild the wheel. At my shop that would be probably about $65 total for one wheel. IMO...not worth it. That's $65 you can save and put towards a new wheel. Expect to pay about $300-350 for a really solid rear wheel that you can use for a long time and move from bike to bike as you upgrade or buy additional bikes. A really robust but budget friendly hub like a DT Swiss 350 or Hope will last you a very long time and not kill the bank.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Yep... Like they said, If the wheels are gone over by someone with a clue, they'll be better. 

You really need 32 double butted spokes, brass nipples on nice, wide rims.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

LyNx said:


> So you weigh 290lbs and expected to not have issues with wheels made for the "Avg Guy" who weighs about 160-200lbs AND only 28 spokes :skep: What bike are these on and are you riding the bike within it's intended usage expectations, especially knowing you are way over the designed for weight range?


I know I know, I expected to have some issues but I didn't expect them to show up this soon; I was hoping to get about a year of use out of the stock wheels and then upgrade them. The bike is a full suspension trail bike, it's a Trek Rumblefish Elite. I do mild jumps with it, nothing more then just a few inches off the ground. I also do a lot of riding over rocks and roots. I do a lot of high speed paved city trail riding too, when my spoke broke last night I was actually riding on a paved trail traveling at about 18 mph. My top speed on the bike as reported by Strava is around 32 mph.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Yep... Like they said, If the wheels are gone over by someone with a clue, they'll be better.
> 
> You really need 32 double butted spokes, brass nipples on nice, wide rims.


Would triple butted spokes be better then double butted, or is double butted the best? For example, the DT Alpine III?

What about straightpull hubs? Are they better for heavy riders? It always seems like the weak point is the J bend where the spoke meets the hub, I've never had a nipple brake.

Also, would 36 spokes be better? What are your thoughts on a 36 hole Shimano Zee FH-M648 hub?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

nbritton said:


> Would triple butted spokes be better then double butted, or is double butted the best? For example, the DT Alpine III?
> 
> What about straightpull hubs? Are they better for heavy riders? It always seems like the weak point is the J bend where the spoke meets the hub, I've never had a nipple brake.
> 
> Also, would 36 spokes be better? What are your thoughts on a 36 hole Shimano Zee FH-M648 hub?


A3 spokes are great.

36 would indeed be better for you.

Straight pull hubs are an answer to a question that was only being asked by marketing types. To wit: "How can we sell _more_ without making anything better?!"


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

You shouldn't have bought a bike with 28 spokes on its wheels. There is a very direct correlation between spoke count and strength. Being a big guy, you want stuff to be a strong as possible and that means more spokes, not less.

Getting the wheels properly tensioned will help but I'd start looking for a used set of wheels with sturdy rims and more spokes. I'd want 36 actually.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

As far as rims, what width should I be looking for? The maximum tire size my bike will accommodate is 2.4".

Is a 36 hole Shimano Zee FH-M648 rear hub for $70 a good deal? I'm struggling to find reputable 36 hole hubs that are cheaper then that.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^ FYI, Mikesee builds wheels for a living. Kinda knows what's what when it comes to wheels.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

leeboh said:


> ^^^ FYI, Mikesee builds wheels for a living. Kinda knows what's what when it comes to wheels.


Yes, I saw that on his website at lacemine29.com, apparently he's built over 14,000 wheels. I'm wondering what he charges to build a wheel.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

That ZEE hub looks fine to me. I've never had an issue with Shimano hubs.

Rims around the 30mm mark should be ideal. I actually use down-hill/free-ride rims on my bikes. I'm not exactly featherweight either! Down-hill rims are a little heavier but I don't have the finesse of some of these younger guys and it's great being able to just hit stuff and not worry about whether or not the wheels will take it. 

With strong rims and a good build 32-spokes should be fine. I do have 36-spoke DH rims but my current wheels are 32 and they're taking the abuse no problem. DH rims are very hard to bend.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

How about a Stan's NoTubes ZTR Flow EX rim? They have a 36 spoke one for around $75.

Stan's NoTubes ZTR Flow EX Rim - Wheelbuilder.com


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

nbritton said:


> How about a Stan's NoTubes ZTR Flow EX rim? They have a 36 spoke one for around $75.


According to that site they are out of stock. Don't know anything about them but they look like good rims to me? They are hookless though, not something I know anything about. I've only ever used rims with a bead hook.

Are you thinking about getting a wheel builder to make wheels up for you? If you are you could find a builder and ask their advice. These guys have often got rims in stock.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Mr Pig said:


> According to that site they are out of stock. Don't know anything about them but they look like good rims to me? They are hookless though, not something I know anything about. I've only ever used rims with a bead hook.
> 
> Are you thinking about getting a wheel builder to make wheels up for you? If you are you could find a builder and ask their advice. These guys have often got rims in stock.


The Flow EX definitely has a bead hook.

Mikesee is a good recommendation. I've had several wheelsets from him. His prices are reasonable, and his knowledge and recommendations are outstanding.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

That's a good deal, I guess... I like wider than that but that's personal preference. 
Just for the record, I once weighed 288 pounds and was breaking the aluminum nipples on my Stumpjumper's wheels like it was my job. In perfect "Me form", I bought 36 hole Salsa Gordo rims, straight guage DT Swiss spokes, brass nipples and Shimano XT 36 hole hubs. I HATED these wheels. I guess the straight guage (non butted) spokes were not the answer. The wheels just felt dead and heavy. Maybe if you built 36 spoke wheels with nice triple butted spokes they'd be fine. 
Interesting question about triple butted vs double butted. Mikesee would be better qualified to answer that than I would. Would a spoke that goes from 2.0 to 1.8 to 2.0 be stronger than a spoke that goes 2.0 to 1.7 to 1.8? Which nipples are stronger? 
I go with Comps (double butted) most of the time based on cost but every once in a while, someone wants Supercomps. I haven't had either one fail.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I don't think the type of spoke is going to make much difference. A properly built DH wheel is going to easily take what the OP will throw at it regardless. The problem might be finding a DH/free-ride rim in 29er at a reasonable price. Most of these rims are 26 or 27.5.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> Are you thinking about getting a wheel builder to make wheels up for you? If you are you could find a builder and ask their advice. These guys have often got rims in stock.


Yes, I'm having difficulty finding a pre-built wheel that can meet my needs and is also within my budget. None of the bike component web shops have a way to filter and sort based on spoke hole count or axle sizes, it feels like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack.

I could have Mikesee do it if his rates are reasonable. With him being in Colorado and me being in Texas I'm not sure about the logistics though. It's $50 for a custom wheel build at my LBS.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

You can buy wheels mail order no problem. You could even buy hubs, send them to a builder and he'll nail the rims on for you. Or you could buy a book and build them yourself. Sounds scary but, if you are good at DIY/techy-type stuff it's not that hard.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

MikeSee's prices are good...it's the shipping that kills. I paid $60 shipping on a wheelset he built me years ago.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> You can buy wheels mail order no problem. You could even buy hubs, send them to a builder and he'll nail the rims on for you. Or you could buy a book and build them yourself. Sounds scary but, if you are good at DIY/techy-type stuff it's not that hard.


I'm very mechanically inclined and have a shop full of tools, but wheel building is something leave to the professionals. It's almost a black art, and you need specialized tools like a wheel stand and a spoke tension meter. I don't have the time to invest ether right now. It would cost me more then $50 to buy a wheel stand and other tools.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

nbritton said:


> I've had my new bike for less than a month (put on about 200 miles) and I've already broken two spokes on the rear. Both spokes broke at the bend at the hub. I didn't really have an extra $500+ budgeted for a new wheelset. I weigh about 290. Wheel size is 29er, 15x100mm in the front and 12x142mm in the rear. What are my options? Would relacing the wheels with stronger spokes solve the problem, and does it make sense to put more money into these stock wheels?
> 
> I'm currently using the stock Bontrager wheels: "15mm oversized front hub, Bontrager sealed cartridge bearing 142x12 alloy axle rear hub w/Bontrager Duster 28-hole Tubeless Ready disc rims"


I have seen this happen repeatedly with stock wheels on low to mid range bikes and even some higher end bikes. I have seen it happen to very light male and female riders. Most riders I have seen breaking spokes like crazy on fairly new bikes are mild riders who take it very easy on the downhills. What I am trying to say here is that from my observations, stock wheels breaking spokes like crazy is not correlated with size or aggressive riding. It will sure make the problem worse but its not the root cause.

I think that what is going on here is really crappy wheelbuilds from the factory or very crappy spokes, or both. I tend to think its more an issue with crappy spokes as I cannot imagine good quality spokes breaking so early on, taking into account a crappy wheel build.

All of your spokes are shot, If you keep replacing them one by one, the other ones you haven't replaced will keep on breaking, I have seen it plenty of times. Just get new, good spokes , and have the wheels relaced by a competent wheel builder. Sapim race would be my personal recommendation; your problem should go away for good.

Cheers


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Welcome to mountain biking, and start saving your pennies. I don't know what kind of rear hub you have, but that is likely the next thing to break. You could cross that bridge if and when you come to it, but then you are out spokes and labor if you built a wheel with the old hub. And Clyde-proof hubs are not cheap. 

I'm in the DFW area and as it happens I have a set of pre-built Stans Flow-Ex wheels new in the box and never been used. The wheels and rims will hold up to clyde abuse all day long. However unfortunately the rear 3.30 rear hub will not hold up to a 290 lb rider, so no reason to go there.

I am a clyde, and I'm very abusive on parts and on my bike in general. However I'm older and can pay whatever I need to for strong parts. At 290 pounds you will either need to ride gently, pay to replace cheap parts on a regular basis, or pony up some real money for clyde-proof parts.

One thing to keep in mind is that a good strong wheelset will last for many years. I noticed that there are a few sets of lightly used Flow Ex wheelsets on Ebay with Neo hubs (these are Stans brand of hubs, stronger than the old ones) for $500ish. Me and 2 friends of mine have ridden pre-built Stans Flow-ex wheels and found them to be absolutely bomb-proof. Only exception being me breaking rear hubs. The Neo should solve that, but it hasn't been around long and I'm not sure if it has been proven to be clyde-proof. And used means no warranty.

For my latest build I bought strong used hubs for cheap on E-bay, then had my local shop select and order the remaining parts and build the wheels. Weight was not a consideration for me, and it should not be for you either. I don't even remember the total now, but it was well over $600 all said and done with a used rear hub. But I ride them like I hate them with zero issues so far.

You might just want to save some money, limp along with repairing what you have, and then see what it will cost to have custom strong wheels built by Mikesee, or a good local builder if you know one. As always, watch Craigslist and Ebay, but even there, cheap bomb-proof 29er wheels are almost non-existent.

Good luck.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Buy hubs and spokes overseas. Much cheaper.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

I come from a vintage motorcycle background,but, I can tell you the Last thing you want to be cheap on is the Wheelset that keeps your head from smashing into the ground!!

I'm a noob,!!!
Sorry no "real MTB" advice
(Just trying to get my post count up so I can ask questions)


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Up above shipping costs were mentioned... 
Last month, I built a pair of wheels for a guy in Michigan. I'm on Long Island. I believe I shipped both wheels for 25 bucks. Wasn't too horrible.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

abelfonseca said:


> I have seen this happen repeatedly with stock wheels on low to mid range bikes and even some higher end bikes. I have seen it happen to very light male and female riders. Most riders I have seen breaking spokes like crazy on fairly new bikes are mild riders who take it very easy on the downhills. What I am trying to say here is that from my observations, stock wheels breaking spokes like crazy is not correlated with size or aggressive riding. It will sure make the problem worse but its not the root cause.
> 
> I think that what is going on here is really crappy wheelbuilds from the factory or very crappy spokes, or both. I tend to think its more an issue with crappy spokes as I cannot imagine good quality spokes breaking so early on, taking into account a crappy wheel build.
> 
> ...





JACKL said:


> You might just want to save some money, limp along with repairing what you have, and then see what it will cost to have custom strong wheels built by Mikesee, or a good local builder if you know one. As always, watch Craigslist and Ebay, but even there, cheap bomb-proof 29er wheels are almost non-existent.


After reading abelfonseca's post I think I'm going to have my existing rear wheel relaced with DT alpine III triple butted spokes. It's not so much that I don't have the money now, it's just I blew through my original budget when I bought the bike. Originally when I started down the path to getting a new bike I budgeted $1,000, but now after buying the bike and accessories and upgrading some components I'm probably over $2,000.

Edit: I measured the spoke hole size on the hub and they won't accommodate the larger size of the DT Swiss Alpine III spokes. :-(


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Get some sapim race from danscomp or thorusa. They will work great. About 80 cents each for the blacksc 60 for the silver. One side of the wheel generaly has different size spokes than the other one, measure both sides.

Cheers!


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

abelfonseca said:


> Get some sapim race from danscomp or thorusa. They will work great. About 80 cents each for the blacksc 60 for the silver. One side of the wheel generaly has different size spokes than the other one, measure both sides.
> 
> Cheers!


I was literally just looking at the sapim race as you posted that, reading through their literature they claim their aluminum nipples are stronger then their brass ones. I find that interesting since many here are recommending brass.

Choose the right product | Sapim


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

1) Many Duster wheelsets use 15g spokes. Couple this with a 28h rim, and IME they are not the best for big strong riders. Build quality may have some inconsistencies too. Took me three weeks to turn a set of Dusters to rubble. I know others that have had issues with them as well.

So, my advice would be to leave the Dusters in your rear view mirror.

2) You're a big guy. If you ride hard and you're strong, it's going to be a matter of time before you find that freehub durability is important to you. Much more so than with smaller riders if you encounter steep hills, especially those short, but VERY steep grunt climbs. Unfortunately, that is not going to an easy one to reconcile on a budget.

My advice would be to get a DT-Swiss 350 rear hub laced into whatever build you choose. Get whatever front hub you want. Shimano makes a fine front hub, and they're not terribly expensive.

3) You don't need a tensiometer to build an excellent wheel. If you do get one, make certain you know how to use it properly or it will do mare harm and cause more confusion than is necessary.

A Truing stand is nice to use, even a relatively inexpensive one.

4) Use brass nipples whatever build you go with.

5) In my experience, being as heavy as 300lbs myself at one time, I would say that you can get a good set of 32h wheels built that would service you well. 36h is extra insurance, and not a bad strategy.

6) Get good quality spokes. DT-Swiss, Wheelsmith, or Sapim. NO 15g (1.8) at the butted ends.

If the A3's won't fit, the Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes are fine IMHO. With that said, I would think twice about investing in a build that doesn't address making sure that you have a really sturdy hub/freehub, especially if you're riding some of that techy stuff in your area.

7) The actual build is super important. But it is also important to consider that a wheel is the collective sum of it's parts, and you don't want to have either a weak link, nor put more beef than is necessary in any one spot.

mikesee builds a superb wheel. I know this from personal experience. And, he knows what works, and what doesn't.

I would have to imagine that there are some competent wheelbuilders in your area. That could save some money if you are fairly confident in their work. If not, you can think of the shipping fee as insurance for knowing that you've selected an excellent wheel builder.

8) Building a wheel yourself is feasible. It helps to have experience, but there are some very good resources available on how to do it with out having to invest in too much gear. It's easier to build a wheel if you don't attempt anything especially fancy or 'different'. Straight vanilla, but good quality is less risky than trying to build a weight-weenie wheel.

A rough order of magnitude for the cost of materials to DIY be would be:

DT-Swiss 350 142x12 32h 6-bolt disc rear hub $200

Rim 29" 32h Black $60 - $90

DT-Swiss 14/15/14 spokes/brass nipples $50

Spoke Wrench $10

There is a Park truing stand on the Austin TX CL right now for $50

That's roughly $400, and you could sell the truing stand for about what you paid for it after you are done using it if you choose to recover some of the money spent.

You might find an alternative, but sturdy, rim for a little less.

9) If you're front wheel is not currently giving you problems, maybe it would be better for you to leave your front wheel as is, and just get a rear wheel for the time being. That would allow you to put your current resources where they are currently needed. Then, get the front wheel down the road if you still feel the need.

Sounds to me like you need a very sturdy rear wheel more than you need a half-sturdy wheelset. JMHO.

Good luck.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Keep in mind that the 18 POE of the DT Swiss 350 is going to suck, especially if that's less than you have on your current hub. And upgrading isn't cheap. That's the only thing that's kept me off a 350. I've had a Hope Pro 2 that was 24 POE and it sucked. Now being on a Pro 2 EVO with 40 and a Pro 4 with 44, noway in hell I'd be able to downgrade to 18. I know POE isn't the most important thing and maybe some people don't notice...but it's worth mentioning.

For my money and a heavy rider wheel build...Hope Pro 4 with a steel free wheel body is money well spend. I've had perfect luck with three different Hope builds so far starting with the Pro 2 at 320 pounds...suggested and built by MikeSee. Second and currently on my SS mountain bike is a Pro 2 EVO build. And the newest set is a Pro 4 set that switches between my gravel bike and my new SSCX bike.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Been riding 18 POE DT Swiss (240s and 350 hubs) for several years with no suckage. Might depend on the trails we ride. 

Is there a reason one couldn't switch to higher tooth count ratchets if they wanted?


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

jeffj said:


> Been riding 18 POE DT Swiss (240s and 350 hubs) for several years with no suckage. Might depend on the trails we ride.
> 
> Is there a reason one couldn't switch to higher tooth count ratchets if they wanted?


I have 2 sets of DT hubs, one at 36 and the other still at 18. Both rock solid performance and while I prefer the higher engagement, the other doesn't really hold me back. Only downside to the upgrade is cost, which is why I only did the one...that, and trails around here aren't technical enough to warrant it.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

jeffj said:


> Been riding 18 POE DT Swiss (240s and 350 hubs) for several years with no suckage. Might depend on the trails we ride.
> 
> Is there a reason one couldn't switch to higher tooth count ratchets if they wanted?


I Googled it many times!!...All I get is about some guy wrote about a bird! 

What is POE?

Thanks...Alan


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

nunzio said:


> I Googled it many times!!...All I get is about some guy wrote about a bird!
> 
> What is POE?
> 
> Thanks...Alan


Ditto


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Points Of Engagement. Its the number of "clicks" or engagement points the hub has in one rotation.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

nunzio said:


> What is POE?


Points Of Engagement. The lower the number, the further your cranks will move forward when you start pedalling before the ratchet catches. 18 is really low and you almost certainly would notice it.

Hope hubs are fairly solid and easy to service but avoid aluminium free-hub bodies, the bit your cassette slides onto. Hope come with alloy as standard but look for the optional steel ones. I have three of the older Hope Bulb hubs which have titanium free-hub bodies, great hubs.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

Thanks Guys !!!!

This Noob is off to read about hubs and POE !!

Alan


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

jeffj said:


> Been riding 18 POE DT Swiss (240s and 350 hubs) for several years with no suckage. Might depend on the trails we ride.
> 
> Is there a reason one couldn't switch to higher tooth count ratchets if they wanted?


Sure you can upgrade but then the value of the hub is lost. For the same price might as well get a Hope with 44 POE vs 36. Maybe you don't notice or don't care. But I know that when I was on 24 and move to 72...the difference was incredible. Perhaps because I was also on single speed it was more noticeable. But when I went down from 72 to 40, the change wasn't as drastic as it sound and 40 is about the minimum I'd ever even consider if I was buying a hub to build a wheel. 36 might be ok. I've never ridden a 36T DT Swiss 350 so 4 less might not be anything to worry about....but 18 would be for sure.


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## Razor Hoof (Nov 4, 2015)

I'm with Jeffj on this one. 18 points of engagement has been fine for me with DT 350 hubs. I do see where a single-speeder or someone who rides a lot of techy climbs would see benefit with higher POE, but I've run up to 54 with DT hubs and haven't felt that my riding has suffered with lower. Big guys tend to sit and spin anyway, and that will mute the affect of the higher engagement.

I build wheels for heavy guys, and I only use DT 350 hubs. Their ratchet system is superb, and if it ever does fail, it's about a 5 minute swap on the trail as long as you have a spare (which I keep in my pack).

As for spokes, 32 should be fine so long as you pick a rim with sufficient radial stiffness. I think carbon is the best choice since it's 3x stiffer than aluminum for the same rim geometry. Just make sure you don't get a rim designed for XC race whippets, and you should be fine with either material.

You'll find all kinds of opinions about straight gage vs butted spokes, but that's about all you'll find - opinions. I've done a ton of research on the subject and have yet to find any scientifically controlled studies that prove the superiority of butted spokes. FWIW, I use straight gage j-bend DT spokes on my own personal wheels since they're cheap, stiff, and easy to get. However, I've used DT Comps and Sapim for others with good results as well.

Posters above offer up good advice - the end result is about taking a systems level approach to the completed product which includes the carbon based machine doing the assembly.

Good luck!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Razor Hoof said:


> Big guys tend to sit and spin anyway, and that will mute the affect of the higher engagement.


I'm a big guy that sits and spins and I disagree. I very much can tell the difference and appreciate higher engagement. Even on my geared gravel bike. I have two wheel sets for my gravel bike and it's very apparent when I'm running my Hopes compared to the stock wheels.

But...like I said...some people may not be able to tell....and/or they just don't care. That's fine. If I was one of them...I'd probably be rolling on 350's on all my bikes. But I can. So I would need to upgrade and adding price to the hub making it less of a good deal.


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

Razor Hoof said:


> I think carbon is the best choice since it's 3x stiffer than aluminum for the same rim geometry. Just make sure you don't get a rim designed for XC race whippets, and you should be fine with either material.


Really? I was told that carbon was off limits for big boys. Do you have an example rim you can recommend, would I look for something that is designed for AM/DH use?

Edit: Umm, I just looked at some pricing on carbon rims, I see rims that are more expensive than my whole bike.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I can't give you a brand or model...but carbon rims have come a long way and there's definitely some on the market that can handle heavy riders. I'm sure someone else will chime in with recommendations. I stick with aluminum precisely because of your point...price. I can build a wheelset that will last years for barely more than just a single carbon rim costs. I'm sure carbon is great and all...but I'm sure it's not going to revolutionize my riding either.


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## Razor Hoof (Nov 4, 2015)

nbritton said:


> Really? I was told that carbon was off limits for big boys. Do you have an example rim you can recommend, would I look for something that is designed for AM/DH use?
> 
> Edit: Umm, I just looked at some pricing on carbon rims, I see rims that are more expensive than my whole bike.


I stock Nextie 35 mm (28mm internal) rims in the DH layup. About 520 grams per rim. Complete wheels are on my site (see signature). They're pretty affordable I think.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

Yes... it is Painful to be this Stupid!!!!!!!


Is a wheelset one wheel or two wheels..Does it include tire and tube?

Sorry..Alan


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Wheelset is two wheels, front and back. No tires or tubes. Sometimes has rim tape but not always and sometimes has to be ordered extra. If it doesn't have rim tape...make sure you get some because you need it. Some people use heavy tape like Gorilla tape. I tried that had didn't have good experience. I like a fabric rim tape. It keeps the tube from puncturing from getting cut by the spokes or spoke holes. If you plan on going tubeless...you need tubeless specific tape or something that's liquid proof and airtight. The fabric rim tape won't work for tubeless.

Not stupid at all. A lot of this stuff is confusing so nothing wrong with asking.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

nunzio said:


> Yes... it is Painful to be this Stupid!!!!!!!
> 
> Is a wheelset one wheel or two wheels..Does it include tire and tube?
> 
> Sorry..Alan


While I agree that asking questions is good, there's something to be said about sticking to one topic and not distracting those trying to help the original poster (OP) with lots of other questions. I'd suggest starting your own thread for things you can't just google an answer easily. I'd also suggest checking out the beginner forum as lots of questions are already answered in the "sticky" threads (at the top, labeled sticky) there. Welcome to the forums!


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

noapathy said:


> While I agree that asking questions is good, there's something to be said about sticking to one topic and not distracting those trying to help the original poster (OP) with lots of other questions. I'd suggest starting your own thread for things you can't just google an answer easily. I'd also suggest checking out the beginner forum as lots of questions are already answered in the "sticky" threads (at the top, labeled sticky) there. Welcome to the forums!


I Try to find an answer before asking questions.
I need 2 more posts and then I can start a new thread according to a sticky in beginners -corner.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

nunzio said:


> I Try to find an answer before asking questions.
> I need 2 more posts and then I can start a new thread according to a sticky in beginners -corner.


I saw that, too, but apparently that's been changed? This post was started by someone with only 7 total posts...maybe try something like that and see what happens. :thumbsup:


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

noapathy said:


> While I agree that asking questions is good, there's something to be said about sticking to one topic and not distracting those trying to help the original poster with lots of other questions.


Where's the fun in that? All good conversations spin away from their starting points, it's only natural. Nothing wrong with asking a question that relates to the subject at hand, which it does.

I found a nice used bike for a guy about a month ago, his first bike since he was a kid, and every time I see him he asks questions so 'stupid' they make you blink. On Sunday he asked how you put air in the tyres. The lever on the track-pump, do you pull it out to lock it or push it in? Now _that_ is a stupid question because, unlike the one about what constitutes a wheel-set, you're gona be able to figure that out by playing with the thing for the whole of three seconds. I think the guy is going to be hard work.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> Where's the fun in that? All good conversations spin away from their starting points, it's only natural. Nothing wrong with asking a question that relates to the subject at hand, which it does.
> 
> I found a nice used bike for a guy about a month ago, his first bike since he was a kid, and every time I see him he asks questions so 'stupid' they make you blink. On Sunday he asked how you put air in the tyres. The lever on the track-pump, do you pull it out to lock it or push it in? Now _that_ is a stupid question because, unlike the one about what constitutes a wheel-set, you're gona be able to figure that out by playing with the thing for the whole of three seconds. I think the guy is going to be hard work.


What's a track pump? 

I am so sorry!!!.... I really could not help myself...I Have Issues !!!!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

nunzio said:


> What's a track pump?
> 
> I am so sorry!!!.... I really could not help myself...I Have Issues !!!!


Its a manual air pump to inflate your tires. Now a better question would be: Whats a pump track?


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

nunzio said:


> What's a track pump?
> 
> I am so sorry!!!.... I really could not help myself...I Have Issues !!!!


Fine, if you're going to be difficult. Here's a track pump. Don't ask what a tranny is...

Track Pump in Black Glossy Calf | Winter '16 | Mulberry


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

So I'm 6'5" and weigh in at 325lbs right now. I've ridden as low as 295 and as high as 340. I have 5 sets of custom built wheels for my bikes. 3 sets of 29er, 1 set of 27.5 and 1 set of 26". My most recent wheel build are 29" 32 hole Derby Downhill carbon hoops laced to Chris King hubs with X1 driver. I had my guy use DT double butted with brass DT prolock nipples. I've found the prolock brass nipples to be a great addition to wheels for big riders. Not a cheap build, but solid and I can afford it, altho I only have 2 rides on the new carbon hoops. 

My other 2 sets of 29" wheels are Stans Flows EX laced to CK hubs with stainless driver. Both have 32 spokes in the front and 36 rear. I've had zero issues with either and that includes riding hard through very rocky, baby head type trails. It also included me riding at 325 with my 55lb daughter on the back in a kid's seat. The only difference I've noticed is the 1 set of wheels that I didn't use the prolock DT nipples has issues with the rear wheel loosing tension more often than I'd like. 

My 27.5 wheel set is Pacenti D31 both 36 hole laced to CK hubs w/ stainless driver and prolock nipples w/ double butted DT spokes. Solid wheel set. Zero issues. And my 26" wheels are Mavic 821's laced to same CK hubs, 32 hole front, 36 rear. Bomb proof.

Ya, whoever sold you your bike should've known better than selling you wheels with 28 spokes. I had a similar situation when I got back into biking a few years ago when a shop sold me a XC bike that I blew the hub out on like the 5th ride. I personally don't think it makes sense for you to spend money on using new spokes when you'll probably blow out the hub soon enough, and it sucks when you do. I had a 4 mile walk back to my car when I blew the first. Thankfully the second time it was 2 miles back and all downhill. I'd look on Ebay or Craigslist for something, maybe try to buy a rear first and then save up for the front. If you want more advice, feel free to PM me. I've got a load of experience on this.


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## nunzio (Aug 28, 2016)

noapathy said:


> Fine, if you're going to be difficult. Here's a track pump. Don't ask what a tranny is...
> 
> Track Pump in Black Glossy Calf | Winter '16 | Mulberry
> 
> View attachment 1091683


Now THAT'S Comedy !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nbritton (Jul 26, 2016)

masonmoa said:


> I had a similar situation when I got back into biking a few years ago when a shop sold me a XC bike that I blew the hub out on like the 5th ride.


What are you doing that is blowing out hubs? My 1997 Trek zx6000 still has it's original Shimano STX hubs, I've put 10s of thousands of miles on them.


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

Simply applying enough torque to break the POE's. Or stripping the freehub body if it's made out of aluminum (the part the cassette slides into on the rear wheel). Or bending teeth on an aluminum cassette. Just a matter of physics. That's why I tend to keep my freehub, cassette and chain rings all steel. Weighs more but doesn't break as often.

https://dirtmountainbike.com/features/work-freehub-body.html

My 1997 Gary Fisher Tasajara still has the original hub with many miles on it but I never road that bike very hard and I continually broke spokes and bent cassette teeth on it.


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