# anyone with the cannondale cujo 20+?



## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

Just wondering if someone had the chance to see or buy the new cujo 20+ and would like to give some impressions of this bike. The shops in my area do not stock it and I can't find anything online yet. 
Cheers


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cicot said:


> Just wondering if someone had the chance to see or buy the new cujo 20+ and would like to give some impressions of this bike. The shops in my area do not stock it and I can't find anything online yet.
> Cheers


I didn't get to pick it up or Jnr ride one but one of our local trail centres has these as the kids hire bikes. I was looking more at the 24 but mostly I think the two are similar for the purpose of the

Not much to say ...except overall that its a typical budget kids bike with the cheapest components unsuitable (according to Shimano) for off-road use, brakes that are unsuitable for off road use (3 finger) and some very heavy *looking* wheels but wire bead tyres that must be heavy.

If that sounds harsh, that's not exactly uncommon though for kids bikes... but it seems to be priced a bit above a similar spec

On the flip side we have a Cannondale 24 Race ... or we have the frame and the forks, everything else has been thrown away but then I bought it end-of-line for less than 50% of the RRP.

Once all the components (and I mean all, the headset and BB was trash...) the frame is a piece of art. (well perhaps overstating ... but it is a very nicely made frame and very light if a very extreme XC geometry - which I don't think the Cujo is

The wheels we got were actually not bad... better than the overall components on the bike by far but I bought it with the plan of putting discs on and I got the rim brake model.

So my summary is if this is a typical Cannondale kids bike, it will be a fantastic frame and decent wheels that could be a fantastic bike totally let down by the components.
(Pretty much the pattern with Cannondale kids bikes) ...

*For me it wouldn't be worth paying the premium for the Cannondale frame over something else.*
Unless you REALLY want the 2.6 tyres (which are like a super fat + scaled to adult sized) then I'd be looking at something like the Orbea 24... the disk edition comes in about half the Cujo price for me locally and the components overall are WAY better.

Then again if I was buying a 20" again I'd not buy new this time. Jnr got pretty much 9mo from just getting onto his 20" to getting onto a 24" but looks like getting 3 yrs out of his 24 and perhaps even 4.


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

Steve-XtC said:


> I didn't get to pick it up or Jnr ride one but one of our local trail centres has these as the kids hire bikes. I was looking more at the 24 but mostly I think the two are similar for the purpose of the
> 
> Not much to say ...except overall that its a typical budget kids bike with the cheapest components unsuitable (according to Shimano) for off-road use, brakes that are unsuitable for off road use (3 finger) and some very heavy *looking* wheels but wire bead tyres that must be heavy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, very much appreciated. 
Yes I was looking at the orbea 20 but my son is fascinated by the plus tyres, and anything that could motivate him to ride is fine for me. Today we were a the lbs, and his eyes were popping out on the riprock


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cicot said:


> Thanks for your reply, very much appreciated.
> Yes I was looking at the orbea 20 but my son is fascinated by the plus tyres, and anything that could motivate him to ride is fine for me. Today we were a the lbs, and his eyes were popping out on the riprock


Well there is certainly no point getting something a kid of that age doesn't want ... but at the same time it's good to let them TRY... which can be harder to do with kids bikes

My lad has 2 bikes and 2 sets of wheels that are interchangeable (more or less)

He VERY quickly felt the limitations of different bikes.... 
When he got his Full suss he couldn't wait to ride it to school (obviously).
It's only a couple of miles but he quickly noticed the extra weight and effort and that was with his 2.1" rocket rons.
He also tried a practice lap of an XC course where he wanted to use his new FS... and decided very quickly against it.

When we do proper downhill we add some BIG tyres (he has a Maxxis 2.5" on the front and a Schwalbe 2.4 on the back) ... due to the way the tyres are measured the Shwalwbe 2.4 is bigger than the Maxxis 2.5
This is a no brainer for uplift assisted downhill

We have used these for pretty aggressive trail riding (technical reds/black) and he cycles about half the number of runs he does on the 2.1's... He's faster and has more confidence on the DH but after a couple of uphills he's not enjoying it.

Had I tried to TELL him this he wouldn't have been interested however him trying for even a few minutes back to back and he easily convinced himself.

As I said... Cannondale does make nice frames.... so if you were willing to spend money later you can get a second set of wheels and even consider adding a suspension fork...

Of course this opens up the money pit.... and where to stop.


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

it sounds you have good time with your kid on the bikes, something I'm still dreaming about. If he told he wanted to come shuttling with me, I would even sell one of my bikes to buy him a fullon dh bike. However, reality is that he is more interested in bloody transformers at this stage. I can't see him ripping trails in the short time and for this reason I thought there was no point to buy him a bike with a suspension fork now. 
Now he on a hotrock 16 with cantilever brakes ( I took off the pedal brake) and I think that mechanical disc brake will have surely more stopping power than what he has now. 
And worst case scenario I can take a pair of deore for 100$. 
I might have to wait for the number 2 to grow up, he is only 3 now but way more excited about riding.
Do you reckon I should change the revo shifter with a trigger shifter? what is your son experience with that?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

My kid showed ZERO interest in cycling until he was 5!

He had a crappy supermarket bike with training wheels... came home from school one day and asked of he could have a proper bike....he did enjoy his scooter but the bid was just rotting away. My own hybrid hardly got used and my last real MTB had original Judy's on it!

Sure I say... when you can ride without training wheels....
I spent a long time trying to get the thing working to the point the free hub rotated and the chain actually sorta worked and took off the training wheels (after a lot of penetrating oil on the bolts)

Took him across the road .. gave him a push and that was it. 
His 20" was a mid range rigid bike ("own brand"from a UK chain of bikeshops) nothing special (6 speed) but that was enough for us to start cycling together. Decently light but not extravagant. 
(I'd expected a few weeks to buy it when he was learning to ride without training wheels but that took all of 2 minutes... )

At first it was a lot of "Dad assist" and tame trails ... to be honest not stuff I'd choose to ride but we broke this up so he made a set of Dens or Forts in the woods.(erm piles of logs).. and he'd go out and check his den ... and started enjoying the cycling more and more. We's have picnics of stuff he wouldn't usually get at home... etc. and made a thing of stopping of at a place for hot chocolate on the way home....

I don't know what I was expecting out of it at this stage except quality time with my son away from all the modern distractions (whatever his equivalent of transformers was at the time)

However, don't think it was all smooth sailing.... there were countless "don't wanna go" or temper tantrums etc. it was just a case of keeping motivating him.

Anyway, 9mo later he'd outgrown the bike in terms of ability (though not size) but he could also just get on a 24... (I mean just) - getting a NEW bike was part of his motivation... (hence why I'd buy used if I was doing this again) but by this point we knew we wanted suspension fork and disc brakes....

We then ended up meeting a boy and his dad in a car park.... this turned out to be pivotal... its like he gained a new set of friends... and they were fairly compatible in riding .. enough to compete a bit but also support each other.

This dragged him into XC racing ... I try and be supportive but to be honest I'd rather be riding than supporting and I'd rather be riding something more technical but ... well it keeps him motivated.

Even now cycling isn't just about cycling.... it's weekends away with Dad (and sometimes friends).... camping and visiting gran etc. even (now he's 8) about the drive and him doing route navigation...



> I think that mechanical disc brake will have surely more stopping power than what he has now.


Sure but whatever make sure they are 1 finger....



> Do you reckon I should change the revo shifter with a trigger shifter? what is your son experience with that?


We didn't give it a fair try.... I ripped of the 3x8 pretty quick and replaced it with a 1x10 off my own bike... 
he basically got the bars and everything on them.... so he got my XT brakes and shifter and my 160 rotors.

However more kids than not seem to prefer trigger... I personally hate grip shift... but some people and kids like it. It certainly wouldn't be usable when we ride tech or DH....


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Steve, 
thanks for taking the time to tell your experience, I have really enjoyed reading about your journey with your son. 
And yes it is all about me wanting to share my passion with him and spend quality time in the nature. 
It sounds like you have created the right environment for your son to facilitate this process. It must be really rewarding to see him taking his own trajectory (riding xc competitions) although you might miss out on riding together. 
I'll take on your suggestions...starve him for the week and then promise him all sort of good sugary stuff for the picnics...he is gonna love riding with daddy


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cicot said:


> Hi Steve,
> thanks for taking the time to tell your experience, I have really enjoyed reading about your journey with your son.
> And yes it is all about me wanting to share my passion with him and spend quality time in the nature.
> It sounds like you have created the right environment for your son to facilitate this process. It must be really rewarding to see him taking his own trajectory (riding xc competitions) although you might miss out on riding together.
> I'll take on your suggestions...starve him for the week and then promise him all sort of good sugary stuff for the picnics...he is gonna love riding with daddy


Hey no problem and thanks.
It's really been a lot of fun for both us and really created a very deep bond through shared experiences. 
I think looking back though it is what is turned into more than what I actively steered. (At least in the detail )

In our specific case this was probably helped by myself being unfit when we started. (I'd actually been quite ill) This isn't a universal, one of his best friends (the one we met in the car park and led to the racing) Dad races XC and Tri... and it worked for them as well but probably differently - and his Dad is more patient than I am

Anyway I think the things I discovered were:
Energy/Nutrition is key ... as you already know kids go from bouncing off the walls to cranky and tired in a flash.. even though I already knew this applying it to cycling was something in itself.. Kids have smaller livers and store less glycogen and once its gone they seem to find it harder than an adult to recover or perhaps it just goes from 90% empty to 100% more quickly. Anyway, even though you already know that I found it something I had to actively think about.

This has changed massively from 5 to 8 ... but when we started off I found keep feeding him (even when he didn't want feeding) was the key.

We also started off with plenty of short rests (and some longer ones)... at first these were combined with food stops and play stops (building dens and stuff)... If I'm honest I found these irritating at the time (not so much the rest but how it would turn into 30 mins and I'd want to be cycling again). However when I look at my phone I also have countless happy Dad/Son photo's from these so obviously not so irritating ...I have an enduring memory of finding some dryish heather and ferns to have a picnic one day when he said "ah, pure luxury - but mum would never appreciate this" ... we were cold and damp at the time but he was busy making a shelter from the wind and rain and making some seats...

The other thing I did was we had a rule that we only stop at the top of hills (even if we push up). Obviously it's been broken but it ensures when they do get back on the bike it's starting off easy not a slog up a hill. He used to complain bitterly about this but he saw the point and came round.

However I think these rest stops are also what turned what could have been an hour into several hours .(we just reduced the numbers and length of stops and now he mainly eats whilst riding or grabs an energy bar at the top of a trail).. and I also think that was key.. Nothing wrong in getting a quick hour in ... but I think his fitness and our present situation where I don't even really need to consider I have a kid with me as opposed to another adult when planning a days route comes from that.

Obviously I don't mean in detail... but I don't look for "kid friendly" distances or climbs etc. Rather we can set just out for a place and just ride whatever is there. (I avoid compulsory gap jumps and stuff but that's coming)

The other biggy was him finding suitable bike buddies. Like I said I'm not super fit and when we started I was really unfit but it's still "no competition". (This might well change soon )

Riding with a friend of close enough fitness and ability really seems to help because he has an achievable goal. It's only once a month or even 2nd month we get to do this as his friend lives a fair distance away.. (especially in terms of driving time) but even between it gives some encouragement for him to try a bit harder.

Weirdly (perhaps) this competitiveness is really friendly... as in he got beat by 8 seconds by his friend last weekend at a race and was genuinely happy for him.

Like I said I'd prefer to be riding (and not XC trails) but the XC racing is really good for him as well but especially some of the series seem a lot friendlier than others. YMMV obviously but I found some seem about turn-up, racing then go home whereas others are way more social and kids and parents just end up going riding after. He ends up checking the pre-race list to find friends more than worrying about the competition.

Anyway... have fun... It's been a fantastic experience for both of us and worth every bit of effort and expense. The huge thing for me is that it is a true shared experience in a way kicking or throwing a ball couldn't be.


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Steve,
Got the bike. Last Sunday we went a first ride and packed up a lot of snacks plus ice cream on the way back home.
I was surprised how much he was excited for the new bike (he would take it to bed!), he really pushed hard on the uphill and did 99% on his bike. 
Surprisingly, he found the downhill more challenging and I had to put my hands around him to make him feel safe enough to try the "steeper" sections (I had to push him to do it). 
At the end he got frustrated because he had the expectation to be able to do everything, but not much patience to try and learn (and fall of course).
Any tips from your experience?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cicot said:


> Hi Steve,
> Got the bike. Last Sunday we went a first ride and packed up a lot of snacks plus ice cream on the way back home.
> I was surprised how much he was excited for the new bike (he would take it to bed!), he really pushed hard on the uphill and did 99% on his bike.
> Surprisingly, he found the downhill more challenging and I had to put my hands around him to make him feel safe enough to try the "steeper" sections (I had to push him to do it).
> ...


It's a hard call ... you don't want him getting scared but equally you want to encourage him on stuff he can do.

I had a huge setback on a really small feature when I promised him he would be fine and he fell... he didn't even hurt himself... but it shook his confidence and even now he hesitates on the same feature. (Perspective: He's riding downhill's that top to bottom even the easiest parts are more challenging... as in no point of the entire decent even approaches how easy this is but he still remembers). He also does some HUGE crashes (padded up and full face but scary) and still this tiny trail feature worries him.

However, it could just be him getting more in tune with the bike and what the bike does and how it handles obstacles and how that then transmits to his body....

Why not change some steeper sections to more technical but flatter sections for a while and also do some really non-technical but steep sections with a clear exit route and a natural stop or at least something that will bleed off speed?

Let him do the steeper in one go then see if he can stop on the steep section... knowing he can always roll down.

Then combine the two ... a little more technical (if you have somewhere you can even make some obstacles on the easy steep place) so he's combining the handling a decent and handling some obstacles at the same time?

I've found logic doesn't always work though... for example there are some drop offs he loves... really gnarly stuff on one of his favourite trails... its a good 24" of drop and in a tight gully... (and I find it quite challenging - especially going slower so I can't jump it) but he flies ...

Then there are some easy and open drop offs he finds intimidating...
He can measure the drop against the wheel and see its smaller yet it's just a feeling I suppose..

(I have a few places intimidate me - most quite illogically in that I do harder and bigger jumps all the time but one where I lost some teeth a year ago I haven't managed to do again .. despite going there specially 2 weekends ago)


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your tips. His confidence is slowly growing and we are having great family fun!
I see how having a riding mate can make the difference.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

cicot said:


> Hi Steve,
> Thanks for your tips. His confidence is slowly growing and we are having great family fun!
> I see how having a riding mate can make the difference.


That's fantastic!

It sounds like we both value the riding with our kids though and getting them away from transformers (or pokemon now) into the outdoors is worthwhile in itself!

I'm sure it will work out well... just enjoy


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## jorgenson22 (Mar 17, 2018)

*Cannondale Cujo 20*

Howdy - I realize that you posed this question over a month ago but figured I'd reply nonetheless.

I just purchased the Cannondale Cujo 20 for my soon-to-be 9 year old daughter. Note - my daughter is on the small side for her age - just grew out of her 16" BMX. She has riden on dirt/gravel roads plenty, but this bike is intended to open the door for her to be able to truly start trail-riding (single track, etc).

I recently borrowed a Kona Shred 20 kids (hardtail) bike from a friend. When my daughter rode it, she couldn't get the front suspension to budge a bit - even when deliberately trying her hardest. So, I figured I'd look for a solid frame bike and not waste the money or weight on a front fork suspension setup.

This is what led me to check out the Cujo 20.

I weighed the stock bike this morning fully built and ready to ride and found it to weigh 22.5 lbs.

Impressions of the bike from my perspective are positive. The tires are wide. I'm curious to know if the tires end up being unnecessary or confidence inspiring. I'm hoping of the latter - will be interesting to see if the larger tires make rolling over rocks and roots easier to navigate for my learning trail rider. It has disc brakes, grip-shifter, knobby tires, and is what I was hoping and expecting - a kids trail bike appropriate for a beginner child rider. The components are not of the caliber of my trail bike - but they shouldn't be. I expect my daughter to ride this for a couple years, and move on to the next bike. Once she's fully grown, I will be willing to step up and spend money on better components.

I'm interested if any other members have input from their kids riding this bike. . .I'll check back in later as this bike is used if I have relevant feedback to offer after enough rides have been completed.



cicot said:


> Just wondering if someone had the chance to see or buy the new cujo 20+ and would like to give some impressions of this bike. The shops in my area do not stock it and I can't find anything online yet.
> Cheers


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jorgenson22 said:


> When my daughter rode it, she couldn't get the front suspension to budge a bit - even when deliberately trying her hardest. So, I figured I'd look for a solid frame bike and not waste the money or weight on a front fork suspension setup.


Some forks work, other's are just for show however the Spinner Air which is on the Kona usually is in the "works" category.

Did you actually set the sag on the fork or did she just ride it as it is? 
What pressure did you set the fork at ?

My kids Cannondale came with a 24" RST F1rst and out of the box didn't move at all...
After setting the sag he got full travel out of it, he was probably 40 pounds in riding kit and wet through at the time... 2 yrs later he's heavier and the pressure has gone up and he still gets full travel.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

Prior to the model year 2018 the KONA Shred 20 had a coil spring fork. Which is why he could probably not get it to work. The Grind Air on the KONA did not come out until just recently this year. Unless the KONA was a brand new model he was probably dealing with the worthless coil spring.


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## cicot (Sep 5, 2008)

my son has been riding it for the last 6-7 weeks. He's confidence is rocketing, but it may be because of the hours actually spent on the bike rather than the bike itself. Having a new fat-tyre-bike, however, has been very exciting and it has prompted him to ride more.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

My 7 year old is riding and loving the Cujo 24+. The wide tires are great for stability and provide a little extra cushion for drops etc. We had tried to talk the kid into an Orbea MX24 disc and had him ride both, but after riding he insisted he loved the Cujo. All he wants to do is ride now. No complaints from us.

My only gripe is the twist shifter, but the kid doesn't mind and isn't willing to have it changed at this point.


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