# Cutting big deadfall by hand



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

We get several big Ponderosa pine blowdowns every year and since no one wanted to take the FS chainsaw course, we ordered this from an outfit in New Zealand that makes racing saws. We ordered a 48" work saw with two handles and it arrived yesterday. After a few strokes on a big 18" log it is apparent that this is one cuttin' saw. It is razor sharp so it will go to the local saddlemaker for a custom sheath that can be strapped to a bike frame.


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## TrailYoda (Feb 23, 2009)

Nice Saw! Folks forget that this was state of the art wood cutting not that long ago. 

People are frequently surprised at the size of many trees that are easier to take 10 minutes to cut by hand without lugging in a chainsaw and PPE.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice looking saw. I'm somewhat of a fan of old woodworking tools. These 3 were given to me by a nice lady who owns an antique shop. She's afraid of sharp things so she asked me to take them away.

View attachment 551950


She has also given me a brush hook, a froe, a draw knife, 2 broad axes, several machetes, sickles and a scythe. What a nice lady!


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

I used to cut down trees with my dad using a two man saw then cut the wood up for fire wood, Nowadays it's the green thing to do cause the two man saw runs on a renewable fuel source.

I remember when chain saws first hit the retail market.

How much was that bad boy?

I still have my dad's old saws, maybe I'll get them sharpened...


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

The saw set me back about $330 ($480 NZD) and took about two weeks. Nice folks.

http://www.tuatahiaxes.com/


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*nice looking saw*

this link has been posted before. The USFS has free dvds that demonstrate, among other things, how to use, sharpen and maintain hand tools, such as the saws above. The dvd is surprisingly interesting.

look for:
Trail Training DVD Series: DVD 1 Includes: "Handtools for Trail Work" and "An Ax to Grind." DVD

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/rectrails/trailpub.htm


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

Misery whips.... make sure the sheath is a good one. I've seen a nasty accident on just the hike into the backcountry involving a cross-cut saw, not sure how I feel about strapping one of them to a bike. Show us the sheath when its done if you can.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

*It's the SS way...*



Fletcher-Love said:


> Misery whips.... make sure the sheath is a good one. I've seen a nasty accident on just the hike into the backcountry involving a cross-cut saw, not sure how I feel about strapping one of them to a bike. Show us the sheath when its done if you can.


Don't know how much time you've spent running a chainsaw, repairing a chainsaw, buying chains, gas, oil, and protective gear for a chainsaw, smelling a chainsaw, listening to a chainsaw, but I have spent plenty of time and money doing that and no more thanks. This is a simpler, easier, and more aesthetically pleasing way of accomplishing the same thing.

We have an excellent local saddlemaker who has done some projects for me so I'm not too worried about safe transport, but you are right about safety, that saw is literally razor sharp.  I will post a pic of the sheath, which I expect will be as elegant as the saw.

I'm also picking up a Fanno No. 30 Bull Saw for smaller stuff, unless someone knows of something better.

I resolved to only have one engine in my life and the position is currently being filled by a pickup truck.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I actually do pretty well with a small folding hand saw surprisingly.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Jim311 said:


> I actually do pretty well with a small folding hand saw surprisingly.


Walks right through those 12"ers right? I already know about small folding saws... I was thinking more along these lines:

http://www.mendotatools.com/Timber-Saw-P159C32.aspx

I've got big trees to deal with, like up to 48". There are Ponderosas up to six feet in diameter around here but four feet is about the biggest I've seen near the trails, and one is fixing to fall any day now. That four foot Tuatahi saw in the pictures above IS a small hand trail saw in my neck of the woods.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

We build alot of bridges out of PT lumber, we precut the decking into 24" pieces and hump them in, and carry 10-12' 4x4s for stringers full length and cut them on site. But I don't have the chainsaw certification to use in our state park - always relying on another guy that does have it, and hoping he shows up... 
I was thinking of buying one of those 28" Timber Saws for trimming the stringers, I imagine it would slice thru a 4x4 pretty fast?
Love the old tools!!!


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

fishbum said:


> We build alot of bridges out of PT lumber, we precut the decking into 24" pieces and hump them in, and carry 10-12' 4x4s for stringers full length and cut them on site. But I don't have the chainsaw certification to use in our state park - always relying on another guy that does have it, and hoping he shows up...
> I was thinking of buying one of those 28" Timber Saws for trimming the stringers, I imagine it would slice thru a 4x4 pretty fast?
> Love the old tools!!!


Cutting pressure treated lumber can be hard on steel blades (same for chainsaw), but other than that it will work fine. WD40 could be your friend. I'm sure you will find hand sawing is less work and stress over all. :thumbsup:


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

I actually like the smell of chainsaws.... but your right, a well sharpened misery whip does the job and it is pretty satisfying hearing every pop and crack as you cut through a large log. Back when I worked for the Forest Service we spent a lot of time in the backcountry logging out trails in the with crosscuts. We used old fire hose to cover the sharpened end of the saws and would carry them on our shoulders on the straps of our backpacks. One of our crew members tripped and the cover had dislodged a bit and cut him square across the back of the neck.... one nasty cut! Speaking of sharp, do you have a professional around to sharpen that beauty? There don't seem to be very many of them around anymore and I've heard there is a real technique to sharpening them correctly.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

Our club bought a 36" bowsaw from ForestrySuppliers.com. In part to cut out deadfall, but also to build structures like bridges and ramps and things - stuff where repeated use of a smaller saw would tire you out pretty quick. Works well. We do need to get a sheath for it - the one it came with sucks. As is we just carry it out to wherever we need to use it.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

bsieb said:


> We get several big Ponderosa pine blowdowns every year and since no one wanted to take the FS chainsaw course, we ordered this from an outfit in New Zealand that makes racing saws. We ordered a 48" work saw with two handles and it arrived yesterday. After a few strokes on a big 18" log it is apparent that this is one cuttin' saw. It is razor sharp so it will go to the local saddlemaker for a custom sheath that can be strapped to a bike frame.


That is a beautiful saw. Checking out their site that company makes some nice stuff.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

One of our guys picked up a Silky Katanaboy, and it's damn near perfect for the deadfall we get around here. We rarely see anything bigger than 24", but one tree will bring several smaller ones down with it. The Silky just zips through it all with ease.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Fletcher-Love said:


> I actually like the smell of chainsaws.... but your right, a well sharpened misery whip does the job and it is pretty satisfying hearing every pop and crack as you cut through a large log. Back when I worked for the Forest Service we spent a lot of time in the backcountry logging out trails in the with crosscuts. We used old fire hose to cover the sharpened end of the saws and would carry them on our shoulders on the straps of our backpacks. One of our crew members tripped and the cover had dislodged a bit and cut him square across the back of the neck.... one nasty cut! Speaking of sharp, do you have a professional around to sharpen that beauty? There don't seem to be very many of them around anymore and I've heard there is a real technique to sharpening them correctly.


That's a good point; sharpening and related maintenance. Jo (Tuatahi) asked if I planned to sharpen it myself or have it done by a professional and I told him I would sharpen it myself. I am a retired carpenter/builder and have done a lot of timber framing, log framing, and joint carving and I know how to sharpen tools and file saws. But my real plan is to see how often we use it, how often it needs resharpening, then either get Tuatahi's sharpening jig (costs as much as the saw) or just send it to a pro, probably a pro that sharpens Tuatahi's. I don't know how many cuts I can get from a sharpening yet. Could be a once every five year thing or an annual thing. I figure if I get a smaller saw and use this one only when neccessary it will be awhile before I have to deal with that. Especially if it has a good case and is kept oiled with t90. Then again, we might start racing it, there has been talk of saw races at our 3 day annual party.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Berkley said:


> Our club bought a 36" bowsaw from ForestrySuppliers.com. In part to cut out deadfall, but also to build structures like bridges and ramps and things - stuff where repeated use of a smaller saw would tire you out pretty quick. Works well. We do need to get a sheath for it - the one it came with sucks. As is we just carry it out to wherever we need to use it.


Garden hose works for bow saws. A couple of pieces of velcro will hold it in place.


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## AmoryPaz (May 2, 2009)

https://www.garrettwade.com/images/500/13K0916.jpg
try this


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

AmoryPaz said:


> https://www.garrettwade.com/images/500/13K0916.jpg
> try this


Have you? What did you think of it?


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

Trail Ninja said:


> Garden hose works for bow saws. A couple of pieces of velcro will hold it in place.


That's a good idea. Cheap too. Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

Actually I ordered one of these last night: http://www.garrettwade.com/western-log-saw/p/20f01.01/


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

fishbum said:


> Actually I ordered one of these last night: http://www.garrettwade.com/western-log-saw/p/20f01.01/


I believe that is the Fanno #30 Bull Saw. Fanno sells a replacement blade for $41 ( http://www.benmeadows.com/search/Saws+Pruners+and+Loppers/31225519/ ) which is easy. I found a reconditioned 36" vintage saw with an auxilliary handle for $150 which is more saw but then again it's more saw to carry. I may wait to hear what you think of the Bull Saw, it looks ideal.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

I'll let you know how it goes - we're building almost 200' of bridges this weekend!!!


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

fishbum said:


> I'll let you know how it goes - we're building almost 200' of bridges this weekend!!!


Do yourself a favor if you're cutting anything over the width of the saw blade. Take a fallers wedge with you. The kerf looks a little narrow and it may bind (no matter what the manufacturer says).

I'm still a big fan of bow saws. A 36" bow saw weighs very little (2-3 lbs.), costs very little ($20) and will cut through 24" faster than most other saws. They're hard to sharpen but replacement blades are $7 to $10.

2 man crosscut saws are just really cool. bsieb, you get good with that saw & you'll be able to race and beat a chainsaw.


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> 2 man crosscut saws are just really cool. bsieb, you get good with that saw & you'll be able to race and beat a chainsaw.


depends what you are cutting.... i'll take a chainsaw for hd work...


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Depends on who's using the saw too. JP Mercier & Donald Lambert on a Mercier racing saw will beat me on my 18" 40cc. Poulan through 12" of white pine by quite a margin.

I could probably beat them with this


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

lol now that's a he-man chainsaw


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## faceplant72 (Oct 25, 2009)

I was around logging shows a lot as a kid since my folks competed in Jake&Jill double bucking. Many of the shows ended with two 80+ year old professional sharpeners showing off their sharpening skills by going head to head with the winner of the stock saw competition. The cross cut always beat the stock chain saw.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

*Be careful not to dull the saw*

Large crosscut saws are very difficult to get sharpened because they require a lot of specialized sharpening tools. To have a professional sharpen a crosscut saw is usually 7-10 dollars a foot plus shipping both ways if they are out of town, which is usually the case because there aren't many crosscut saw sharpeners anymore. Try googling for crosscut saw sharpening services, they're hard to find even using the Web. Here is a link to a guy that does professional sharpening.

www.jimscrosscutsaws.com

It is much less expensive to treat the saw in a way that prevents dulling. First thing is to always remove the bark from the log before beginning to saw. Dust gets blow into the crevices of the bark, especially in dusty Ponderosa pine forests, which dulls the saw. Take the bark you have removed and lay it under the log to prevent the saw teeth from touching dirt. If the blade does dip into the dirt, stop and wipe off the blade. Otherwise you will pull the dirt into the kerf where it will dull the blade.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

bweide said:


> It is much less expensive to treat the saw in a way that prevents dulling. First thing is to always remove the bark from the log before beginning to saw. Dust gets blow into the crevices of the bark, especially in dusty Ponderosa pine forests, which dulls the saw. Take the bark you have removed and lay it under the log to prevent the saw teeth from touching dirt. If the blade does dip into the dirt, stop and wipe off the blade. Otherwise you will pull the dirt into the kerf where it will dull the blade.


Now there's a man who knows his saws.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Trail Ninja said:


> Now there's a man who knows his saws.


+1 for sure!

Daryl B Bressan ([email protected]) also also sharpens crosscut saws, although not the Tuatahi's. He is located in southern Colorado, I believe.

I sure hope this venture doesn't turn me into a vintage tool freak, there are some great axes out there...


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

bsieb said:


> +1 for sure!
> 
> Daryl B Bressan ([email protected]) also also sharpens crosscut saws, although not the Tuatahi's. He is located in southern Colorado, I believe.
> 
> I sure hope this venture doesn't turn me into a vintage tool freak, there are some great axes out there...


Your one-stop shop.

http://www.gransfors.com


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

nice compliment of saws you've got there, but I'll take a chainsaw any day. even packing it in five miles, I'd still rather have a gas drive. unless they aren't allowed in the area, and then you've got yourself some nice saws for the job.

I'm curious how you deal with an under bucking situation with one of those?


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I have a little Stihl hand saw or a small bow saw that I use to undercut.

... and yeah, most places I work chainsaws aren't allowed.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

Jim Talburt from Jim's Crosscut Saws also manufactures a neat underbucker that you drive into the underside of a log and then use it as a lever point to saw upwards. Not sure what it costs but it looks like it should last forever.

https://www.jimscrosscutsaws.com/Undercutter.jpg


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

I think the old timers would drive their hand axe in on the underbelly of the log and then use the axe's handle to lever off of. I'm sure they would have appreciated the ease with which a chainsaw would underbuck their logs or even the tool from jim's website!

Hopefully you need to underbuck few trees. 

I had an old crosscut saw sharpened a while back and the shop warned me that a few teeth may bust off. Apparently the old steel gets brittle and breaks easily. And they did, maybe two teeth broke. I used it just for the sake of being green, but eventually toted my chainsaw in to do maintenance after the fact.

I'm impressed that you are using those as your sole means of cutting trees. :thumbsup:


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm doing almost all my work in parks now so I can call the parks arborist to do any big cutting. I seldom have to cut anything over 18". The big saw doesn't get much use anymore.


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