# My Deal Extreme purchase - Ultrafire/Gemini Duo clone + 1



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

After reading hundreds of post on here and finally knowing what I was looking for, I decided to take the plunge and order some lights.

I searched all of the sites mentioned on here and finally found one that had what I was looking for in XM-L2 U2/U3 lights.

I picked up one of these UltraFire LZZ-U3 2 x CREE XM-L2 U3 4-Mode 1800lm White Bike Light / Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

and one of these Buy Cree XM-L2 U2 864lm 3-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Grey + Silver (4 x 18650)

hoping they would be what they claimed. I was also aware that the batteries would be less than stellar, but I'd deal with that when the time came.

I placed my order on 02/09/14 and waited. On 03/06/14 they finally arrived, and I immediately tore them apart so I could see what they really had inside.





































As for the batteries, only the single emitter had a weatherproof connection, the Gemini clone didn't.

The single clicky switch on the Gemini clone worked nice, providing three modes starting from low-mid-high then a soft return to low. Holding the switch down while the lights were on, would turn them off. Holding the switch down while the lights were off, would turn on the strobe mode.

The single emitter light only had two modes plush strobe, low-high-strobe-off.

I haven't tested the run time yet or even how well they light up the trails, but I'll post back when I do.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Thermally, that duo clone needs help for best performance and reliability. Also glue down the inductor on the driver board if it's not already.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Thermally, that duo clone needs help for best performance and reliability. Also glue down the inductor on the driver board if it's not already.


Yeah, I plan on putting some thermal paste around the perimeter.

Any suggestions on glue, if needed?


----------



## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

That gemini clone is what we have been calling a clone of a clone, I have one too its identical the only difference is when Hold down the switch when the lamp is on (green indicator) for 3 - 5 seconds it goes into a orange flashing indicator and I can cycle through 10 levels of light output


----------



## outriding9800 (Jun 14, 2013)

Steve, Can you take some pics of the gemini clone's housing that the leds seat into. Also how did you take it apart i do not see any screws like the yindings have.

I have used these 2 products and found the housing heats up much quicker than before so i am guessing it is transferring the heat better..

Arctic Silver Incorporated - Arctic Silver 5

Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

outriding9800 said:


> Steve, Can you take some pics of the gemini clone's housing that the leds seat into. Also how did you take it apart i do not see any screws like the yindings have.
> 
> I have used these 2 products and found the housing heats up much quicker than before so i am guessing it is transferring the heat better..
> 
> ...


I've got it back together but when I get the thermal paste, I'll grab some shots.

This model has two tiny allen head set screws that hold the back of the light in place. It has no O-rings, other than the two around the lenses, so I'm sure it's not waterproof. The LED board is held down with two Phillips screws and it has enough gap around the perimeter that I'm sure the screw contact points are the only heat transfer point, until I add some thermal compound.

I use Arctic silver on all of my PC builds. That stuff is awesome.

One thing, is there a visual way to tell if these are CREE LEDs or fakes? They don't say CREE anywhere on the boards, but I'm not sure if it would or not. The single emitter says CREE XML, so I'll assume it's not an XM-L2.


----------



## outriding9800 (Jun 14, 2013)

Thanks Steve..

this website has a decent up close pic of CREEs..

Cree - Flashlight Wiki

The L2s have 2 wires and kind of look like a waffle up close..


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

outriding9800 said:


> Thanks Steve..
> 
> this website has a decent up close pic of CREEs..
> 
> ...


Thanks! I read that site but I need a magnifying glass so I can see the LED. I was hoping for an easy way out. lol

I'll report back on my findings. The weather is looking great the next 10 days, so maybe I'll be able to get some riding in.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Trd620 said:


> That gemini clone is what we have been calling a clone of a clone, I have one too its identical the only difference is when Hold down the switch when the lamp is on (green indicator) for 3 - 5 seconds it goes into a orange flashing indicator and I can cycle through 10 levels of light output


Hold on a minute...Are you saying you have a Gemini Duo clone that has the stepless menu option? If so what model did you buy and where did you buy it from?

*hidperf*, you should have a set-up that should work well. Your D/X batteries might actually work better than expected. A couple years back D/X began trying to supply a more useable battery with some of their lights. I was a given a quad set-up to test and the battery on that lamp ran for two hours which is not too shabby all things considered. Be sure to do a run test with the batteries before you do any longer rides. Just be sure to use a fan blowing on the lamps when you do the test so the lamps don't over-heat.

The only thing I think you did wrong was buy the single emitter lamp with only two steady modes. The same style single emitter lamps with 3 steady modes are readily available. You would of been better off with one of those. When I ride about 80% of the time I use my mid-modes.


----------



## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

I posted in the Gemini duo clone thread a while ago I called it the clone of the clone, yes it has a step less menu it has 10 modes


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *hidperf*, you should have a set-up that should work well. Your D/X batteries might actually work better than expected. A couple years back D/X began trying to supply a more useable battery with some of their lights. I was a given a quad set-up to test and the battery on that lamp ran for two hours which is not too shabby all things considered. Be sure to do a run test with the batteries before you do any longer rides. Just be sure to use a fan blowing on the lamps when you do the test so the lamps don't over-heat.
> 
> The only thing I think you did wrong was buy the single emitter lamp with only two steady modes. The same style single emitter lamps with 3 steady modes are readily available. You would of been better off with one of those. When I ride about 80% of the time I use my mid-modes.


I hope you're correct on the batteries. That would save me a few bucks that I could put towards something else fun.

I'll try and do a run test this week, or weekend, while I'm rebuilding the shock/fork on the bike. I'll post results if I do.

Yeah, I didn't realize that it was only two steady modes until it was already shipped. I was more focused on the XM-L2 U2 and didn't pay attention to the modes. It's still pretty bright on low though. I took some pictures in my back yard, but it's just a point and shoot camera that has very little adjustability so I doubt they'll be of use. Plus I forgot to turn off my flood light, so 2sec exposure with the flood light doesn't give you a great comparison.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

So I finally had time to do a run test on them today and I was surprised by both lights. 

The dual light went yellow after only 34mins, red after 41mins, flashing red at 1hr and 14mins but then I finally shut it down at the 5hr mark. It was still putting out light, although it wouldn't change modes. 

The single never went yellow and went straight to red at 2hrs 36mins and shut off completely at 2hr 38mins.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

nofa said:


> Can I see the pict of your test? Thanks


Pictures? Of the run test? I didn't take any pictures of the run test. I just started a timer on my phone when I turned them both on and noted the times when things changed.


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

*Hands on - UltraFire LZZ-U3 2 x CREE XM-L2 U3 4-Mode 1800lm*

I have ordered the same UltraFire LZZ U3 from www.dx.com on Sep 3rd and it was delivered on Sep 29th.
It is not the best build quality light you can find on the market but given the price of less than $50 it is sufficient. The light body itself is surprisingly small, especially when you see the amount of light it produce. Here is the photo of the full kit (charger is included but not shown on my picture)







I mount it with the large O ring and it looked tight enough for road ride but not for wild ride in the mountain. Maybe the smaller ring will help or alternative mount system for hard fix. The power cable length is sufficient to mount the battery pack on your bicycle but not to wear it in a backpack or so. This light will be also perfectly suitable for second light helmet mounted. The battery unit itself is with cheap looking build quality and questionable protection sealing. The clip to be attached to the battery unit stays neglectably but sideways when attached.
Here how it looks like on the bike:







Coming to the main topic - performance. I doubt it produce 1800 lumens BUT still it is very powerful light, far better than most of what I've seen on bikes and even some cars . I also doubt the LEDs used are really the Cree XM-L2 U3 (but can't confirm until I find a way to disassemble the body ... with no screws visible on it). The light produced looks barely noticeable bluish (at least to me) but not everyone will notice it and after short time of use you get use to it and can't tell it's other than cool white. The light has 4 modes: Low-Mid-High and Fast Strobe. The last one activates when turned off you hold pressed the power button.
The beam of the light is a bit more on the focus spot side but overall giving good view angle. (no need to explain you will need (second) headlight for ultimate night ride experience) 
On Low the light produced is enough for nearly every occasion other than fast riding and downhill. It will give you more then enough* battery life and not too irritating for surrounding people.
On Mid the amount of light increase significantly and you'll be able to have much better view of your path.
On High you will have maximum light output and the experience is big satisfaction from the huge amount of light you see. Not really suitable for use against traffic or other people being that bright.







**Photo taken with Galaxy Note 3 with ISO set to 400.

With the factory charge of the battery the unit last about 40+ min on high with temporary auto switch to low due to the fast overheating (I have to admit I test it indoor and natural cooling from the ride was not possible). The battery indicator went from green to orange after the first ~20 min. Another ~20 min later it turned to red and the light kept working on Low for another ~60 min. After total of more than 3 hours work the battery was blinking red for more than an hour and the light was still working fine on Low. I did not want to spend more time so I turned it off and put the battery for charging.

Edit: _This evening I took the light for a street ride. It was about 40 min on High and battery was indicating green all the time. The temperature was around 13 Celsius with average speed of 16 km/h and the light still was overheating 3 or 4 times. Each time the light was reduced automatically (to a different level but not Low, depending how overheated it was I guess) and after less then a minute I was manually changing it back to High.
I have to admit that the light is not appreciated by the people/cars coming against you. I also notice it hits high enough to blind the cars while riding behind them. 
Now the best part for me is that I discovered the light has one more mode: 
While the light is on, by pressing and holding the button down for ~5+ sec the battery indicator starts blinking orange and the light is at low. Now by clicking on the button again you will go through 10 different levels of power output from Low to High for each click and the battery indicator will remain blinking orange.
Other than the described I was not able to change the power output level for the main modes or anything else so I guess it is meant to use it as described above. You have to note that during this "extra" mode you will not see the battery level as the indicator is blinking orange._

Conclusion (mine): Perfect value for money. The light body performance might be able to be improved (by disassembling the light and maybe improving the cooling system). The battery kit may be could be also inspected if properly assembled and sealed. If all mentioned done properly maybe you will enjoy longer and better experience with this light! It is not suitable for city ride (blinding the other people) when on High but on the other side it is perfect for off road, forest and so on. I will recommend it if you care of spending less money.


----------



## Smoke&Lasers (Feb 22, 2014)

Nicely done


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gulliverbg said:


> I have ordered the same UltraFire LZZ U3 from www.dx.com on Sep 3rd and it was delivered on Sep 29th.
> It is not the best build quality light you can find on the market but given the price of less than $50 it is sufficient. The light body itself is surprisingly small, especially when you see the amount of light it produce. Here is the photo of the full kit (charger is included but not shown on my picture)...


Thanks for the review. I believe this is the same lamp that was reviewed by someone else and was said to have a "*Stepless menu" 
( *stepless = press and hold sub-menu allowing 10-level varying brightness levels programmable by the user for each of the modes )

I was wondering if you could confirm or deny this. (?)

About the U3 bin; These are suppose to operate in the 6500-7000K range. This would likely give the tint of the light a more "bluish" look. Not a problem unless you run the light with another lamp using a much warmer bin. As Kevin ratings go I prefer 5500-6000K 
( basically a more clear bright white ) Someone looking for an LED with a more warm "natural" tint will want something 5000K or below. I believe the original Yindings were using the first release XM-L2 T6 emitters which tended to be more neutral warm ( 5000K?) Now that the brighter white XM-L2 U2's are more available you don't see the neutral T-6 as much


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Looks like it comes with the battery box with removable cells?


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> Looks like it comes with the battery box with removable cells?


The battery unit appears to be metal tube with plastic covers glued at the both sides of it. So if you are referring to... puling out 4 battery cells from your pocket to replace during a ride - it is not an option.








One of the covers has the female plug integrated for the power connection towards the light power wire and socket for the belt clip on one of its side.
I tried to open it with "hand force" but it didn't work out for non of the sides. Maybe if some tool is used (I don't have anything suitable) you might be able to open it without damaging it for further use. I am also interested to have it open to make sure it is properly wired and properly sealed.
Same is valid for the light body but I can't find a way to open it since no screws are present. If anyone can advice on this will be appreciated!


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks for the review. I believe this is the same lamp that was reviewed by someone else and was said to have a "*Stepless menu"
> ( *stepless = press and hold sub-menu allowing 10-level varying brightness levels programmable by the user for each of the modes )
> 
> I was wondering if you could confirm or deny this. (?)


I too am interested to know. I'm interested to see if the one I get from KD has this stepless programming menu.



Cat-man-do said:


> About the U3 bin; These are suppose to operate in the 6500-7000K range. This would likely give the tint of the light a more "bluish" look. Not a problem unless you run the light with another lamp using a much warmer bin. As Kevin ratings go I prefer 5500-6000K
> ( basically a more clear bright white ) Someone looking for an LED with a more warm "natural" tint will want something 5000K or below. I believe the original Yindings were using the first release XM-L2 T6 emitters which tended to be more neutral warm ( 5000K?) Now that the brighter white XM-L2 U2's are more available you don't see the neutral T-6 as much


Please be careful not to confuse LED "bins" with LED "tints". T6, U2, U3 are bins. See the "Flashlight Wiki's" page on this (great resource on this). 1A, 1C, 2B, 3C, 4C, 5B1 . . . etc are tints. The lower the first number the more "cold" the "whiteness" is. A great resource on tints is here on this page on Flashlight Wiki and especially this chart. The XM-L2 U3 bin has only recently come out and manufacturers claiming to have U3's are probably just trying to pull in sales by advertising as U3 even though they may be using the cheapest bins they can get their hands on! Usually the highest bins end up being cool white in tint (just the way it works out). Neutral Whites are generally a bin or two lower (for instance the XM-L2 in a 5B1 tint that I love is only available in a T5 bin. Another thing to keep in mind is that there is a 6% tolerance in the way Cree bins their LEDs and you could end up with a T6 that is at the higher end of the 6% level and a U2 which is at the lower end of the 6% level and therefore have pretty much the same output from both of them. Lastly, your never going to see the difference between a T6 and a U2 or a U2 and a U3 - your eyes can't pick up that minute difference! This is why I don't get wrapped up in having to get the highest bins available. I believe tint is what everyone should be looking for. If the tint works great for you seeing detail / distance, then why does it matter if your light is outputting 1156 lumens or 1135 lumens?

-Garry


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

gulliverbg said:


> Same is valid for the light body but I can't find a way to open it since no screws are present. If anyone can advice on this will be appreciated!


I responded in your other thread. Here is a copy (for anyone searching this):

I think I remember reading that you have to unscrew the bottom handlebar mount to access screws which hold the back on and then the innards come through the back (or perhaps there are screws inside which release the front - I never did understand how this exactly came apart).

-Garry


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> ... said to have a "*Stepless menu" ...
> ( *stepless = press and hold sub-menu allowing 10-level varying brightness levels programmable by the user for each of the modes )


Yes it does have the "Stepless menu" but I could not assign any different level to the standard modes/change them. It might be the case I didn't do it right, not sure.


----------



## JohnyRo (Oct 2, 2014)

I had the UltraFire LZZ-U3 and returned it. Mine held up for about 30 minutes in high or even mid mode, fully charged. It did go on for more than 12 hours after it automatically switched to low mode. That's why I'm not sure if it was a bad battery.

Anything under two hours was not going to cut it for me. Are my expectations too high or gulliverbg's too low? 

While I don't agree with his conclusion I can confirm his observations. Here's a few more I didn't see him mention, maybe they were specific to my unit:

- The lenses don't fit snugly and rattle slightly. It's audible in quiet conditions (not on the road) and visible as flicker, or at least I imagined it to be. Pretty sure it could have been fixed with more of those O-rings, or a fatter one, but it would be a PITA if you didn't have them on hand.

- The pack, while visually more appealing then those raggedy bags, is not the pinnacle of craftsmanship. The top and bottom of mine were visibly nonparallel. Maybe that could also be fixed because the pack can apparently be dismantled.

- I also didn't like the way the pack attaches to the frame. A plastic clip with two hooks goes on the pack, and a perforated rubber strip goes around a tube and on to the hooks. Something about a single rubber strip with holes, plastic hooks and a heavy pack didn't quite instill confidence. Especially since I couldn't mount it on the top tube, just behind the head tube, because I have a tri bag there.

- I didn't really have time to concentrate on the beam pattern, but it wasn't what I was hoping for. I wanted a big puddle of light in front of me so it probably was too narrow for me. I don't think it was a problem with the output since I couldn't look at the light reflected of my hand without it being uncomfortable. That's about as "scientific" measurement I can provide. 

My conclusion: if I was sure the run time could be improved with better batteries and it cost about 30 bucks I could see myself trying to DIY away the stuff that bothered me. As it was the time+money would be enough to justify buying a proper brand-name product.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gulliverbg said:


> Yes it does have the "Stepless menu" but I could not assign any different level to the standard modes/change them. It might be the case I didn't do it right, not sure.


Yes, if you don't exit the menu properly it doesn't store the change. What you need to do is either contact DX to find out how to do it with your lamp or to contact the other guy who said he had one.

I have a stepless lamp so I can tell you how mine works so maybe that might help.


> First you switch the lamp on and chose a mode you wish to change. Once in the mode you want you press and hold the mode button until there is a flash from the LED's ( in front ). When you see the flash you let go of the button and at that point you should be in the "stepless" menu. Then you do short quick presses on the mode button to make the light levels either go up or down. When the lamp steps up to the highest level the front LED's will once again flash. If you wish to "step down" you start with quick short presses again till the light levels drop down to the level you want. Basically you keep doing this until you decide on the level you want. Once you have the level you want you press and hold the mode button till once again the front LED's flash. At that point the light level should be stored for that particular mode. If you get it wrong you can start over till you get it right.


No guarantees that yours will operate the same as mine as I have a different lamp but more than likely yours is using the same driver. Good luck, I hope this helps.

Parting thought; It suddenly occurred to me that calling this type of menu "stepless" is a total misnomer. The only reason we call it this is because that is what the Chinese sellers have called it. :crazy: _ Chinglish_ at it's best I suppose.  Anyway, we should be calling these, "Up/down step menus" or perhaps just, "Varied output menu" ( VOM ).....VOM, works for me. Chalk up another CAtlish term. :rockon:


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

We'll just call it "Cat Mode" in your honor.  

-Garry


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> No guarantees that yours...


I confirm it works as described by Cat-man-do, although not every time. I had to retry same thing 2 or 3 times.
Now the problem I still have is how to open the light body???


----------



## JohnyRo (Oct 2, 2014)

gulliverbg said:


> I confirm it works as described by Cat-man-do, although not every time. I had to retry same thing 2 or 3 times.
> Now the problem I still have is how to open the light body???


Are you talking about the UltraFire LZZ-U3? Mine had a couple of hex setscrews on the bottom, closer to the button.


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

JohnyRo said:


> Are you talking about the UltraFire LZZ-U3? Mine had a couple of hex setscrews on the bottom, closer to the button.


It is the UltraFire LZZ-U3 indeed. Check the photo. The only screw is the one holding the mount (1). There are two threaded holes (2) at the bottom but no screws in there. I tried to push the back with thin blade or to pull the back with pliers with force and didn't work.


----------



## JohnyRo (Oct 2, 2014)

gulliverbg said:


> There are two threaded holes (2) at the bottom but no screws in there.


Yup, mine had setscrews there. If they're missing on yours maybe they used some sort of glue? Try pushing the cable in while pulling the back out. The cable is, of course, attached to the driver, which is screwed on to the back. So if you tried pulling the back while the cable is in the pictured position I imagine the friction force to be enough to hold everything in place.

Come to think of it, your cable does seem to be thicker than the one on mine. Maybe it's just pinched in somewhere inside?


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

gulliverbg said:


> It is the UltraFire LZZ-U3 indeed. Check the photo. The only screw is the one holding the mount (1). There are two threaded holes (2) at the bottom but no screws in there. I tried to push the back with thin blade or to pull the back with pliers with force and didn't work.
> View attachment 929940


Two set screws were located at #2. I removed them and the back came off. 
Mine didn't fit snug so it came off easily.


----------



## gulliverbg (Sep 24, 2014)

hidperf said:


> Two set screws were located at #2. I removed them and the back came off.
> Mine didn't fit snug so it came off easily.


This is really weird ... looks like those clones doesn't have 2 same from a model ... Now I am even more frustrated is it even possible to open it!?!


----------



## gillas (Aug 24, 2014)

I got the very same light without the ultrafire sticker from Lightmalls (no battery pack) for $26.90. SKU M1387.
Amazingly small and bright & has 10 stepped settings, 
I could not get the back off either, reckon it is just really tight but did not want to force it until I had tried it out.
It does get hot (indoors) very quick, so it is either going to burn out or it has good thermal conductivity!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*New D/X "Soul" website: Shipping inside the USA*

Okay, not that I'm stumping for D/X but tonight I noticed that D/X has a new shipping site for faster shipping times within the USA. I haven't tried it myself yet but I plan to. Includes free shipping for items over $15 USD and shipping times are listed around 4-7 days ( within the USA, not including about 4 days for handling ). Still a big improvement over the 16-30 days usually spent waiting for something to ship from China and wondering if the order will be sent back due to problems with shipping Li-ion batteries via international Air post.

D/X Soul website


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

DX has had what they call a "US Warehouse" for sometime now. Not sure if this "DX Soul" was a change from the "US Warehouse" or not, but the items DO NOT ship out of the US. I believe somewhere they list the service as "US Direct" shipping. It's some sort of faster shipping method out of China to the US (and I'm not sure why only certain items in their inventory are available for it). I did order from "DX Soul" about 2 months ago and it was a very quick shipping experience (per DX standards). Ordered 8/19/2014, received 9/2/2014. 

-Garry


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> DX has had what they call a "US Warehouse" for sometime now. Not sure if this "DX Soul" was a change from the "US Warehouse" or not, but the items DO NOT ship out of the US. I believe somewhere they list the service as "US Direct" shipping. It's some sort of faster shipping method out of China to the US (and I'm not sure why only certain items in their inventory are available for it). I did order from "DX Soul" about 2 months ago and it was a very quick shipping experience (per DX standards). Ordered 8/19/2014, received 9/2/2014.
> 
> -Garry


Yes, a while back D/X used to ship certain items from a warehouse somewhere in the US but it was limited and only for certain items. It looks as though this warehouse has been expanded and is offering many more items, hence the new name. Since D/X bought out Manafont it looks as though D/X looks to capture more of the USA market. I've also noticed that in their ads that D/X is listing not only " theoretical lumen" but "actual lumen" output as well. I'm not sure this is going to be any more truthful but it is a step in the right direction.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Cat-man-do said:


> I've also noticed that in their ads that D/X is listing not only " theoretical lumen" but "actual lumen" output as well. I'm not sure this is going to be any more truthful but it is a step in the right direction.


It's just going to add to the confusion!

-Garry


----------

