# New build - Alfine / belt / 26er



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

First post here....hoping to find some help on this project.

I've been riding mountain bikes since about 1990, and after going through most bike designs and materials, decided I just wanted a simple, minimalist bike. Ended up finding an old steel 26" frame, and built it up with a rigid fork, V-brakes, and 1x8 gears in 2008. It's been a great bike, and it's all I ride anymore, but I've always been curious about IGH and belt drive. With my 44th birthday closing in next week, I decided it's now or never.

Yesterday I bought a 2000 Ionic Dean Johnny Rotten (pictured below), and plan to install a frame splitter, belt drive, and IGH. I'm handy with mechanical stuff, welding, and machine work, so the splitter is no big deal. Decided to stick with 26 because it's always worked well for me and I have a decent stash of back-up parts centered around that wheel size. V-brakes for the minimalism thing, and they work well enough for me.

The build:
-Steel 26 frame w/horizontal dropouts
-Rigid steel fork
-V-brakes
-Carbon bars
-Carbon post
-Brooks saddle
-Alfine 8
-Gates belt drive

My main concern here is the Alfine 8. I've got some people telling me there's now way it will hold up, but then I'm reading on-line about lots of people riding them and loving them. From what I can gather, the failures are mostly a result of going too low with the primary gears. My current 1x8 has 32 front and 11-32 rear, so a 1:1 low gear is all I really need. Looking at the Alfine ratios, a 39x22 or 39x24 belt drive should get me close to 1:1 in low gear.

As for my riding style....I live at the base of the mountains in Colorado. Typically put on about 2000 miles a year, 95% dirt, 50% single-track. Average ride being twenty miles with 1500 feet of climbing.

Am I on the right track? Gearing look right? Should I cut and run before it's too late?

View attachment 889823


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

_CJ said:


> My main concern here is the Alfine 8. I've got some people telling me there's now way it will hold up, but then I'm reading on-line about lots of people riding them and loving them. From what I can gather, the failures are mostly a result of going too low with the primary gears. My current 1x8 has 32 front and 11-32 rear, so a 1:1 low gear is all I really need. Looking at the Alfine ratios, a 39x22 or 39x24 belt drive should get me close to 1:1 in low gear.
> 
> Am I on the right track? Gearing look right? Should I cut and run before it's too late?
> 
> View attachment 889823


I've had two A8's in our Pugleys for 5yrs+ now with zero issues. MTBing, bikepacking, beach use, etc... Check out the link below to see the sort of abuse they been subjected to:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vikapproved/sets/72157610461277546/

We are running 32T x 23T. That's fine for me. For steep riding I'd probably get my GF on a 30T x 23T.

The only comment I'd make is I think belts are a waste of time/money and are a real problem when they break many miles from the trailhead. You'll 95% of the perceived belt benefits with a chain plus it's cheap, proven and field repairable. :thumbsup:

Nice looking frame....enjoy the new bike....


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I'd go with the newer center track version that doesn't take so much tension compared to the first version. The first version needed lots of tension to work and frame flex was a big deal as was wear on the Alfine from a really tight belt.

I'm with Vik, why bother with the expense and hassle of a belt when chains work so well.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

pursuiter said:


> I'd go with the newer center track version that doesn't take so much tension compared to the first version. The first version needed lots of tension to work and frame flex was a big deal as was wear on the Alfine from a really tight belt.
> 
> I'm with Vik, why bother with the expense and hassle of a belt when chains work so well.


Definitely planning on the center track style.

The belt appeals to me for a lot of reasons....simple, silent, durable, no lube needed. Just make sure the tires have air, and go. More than anything, I just want to try it out so I'm not sitting in a nursing home 40 years from now wondering what it would have been like.

Cost is a non-issue as I'll have so little into the bike with the use of spare parts and such that I could easily sell it for as much as I have invested. Using my stash of old leftover parts is the reason I'm building the bike from the frame up instead of just buying a belt drive 29er and installing an IGH.


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## MrMcFeely (Apr 29, 2013)

I ditched my centertrack belt because I couldn't get it to keep silent.... too much flex in my frame/dropouts I guess? I rock a chain on that bike now.

That said carrying a spare belt is very little weight (less than my chain tool) and changing belts was faster than linking a chain back together.

However silent, it was not by any means.

I had it hooked up to an alfine 11 with no problems.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

So I spent a ridiculous amount of time today figuring out the details (which was fine because it's been snowing all day). Long story short, it appears that I need to do a 46/24 cog setup to attain a reasonable effective chain-stay length. This is based on a 113 tooth belt being the shortest currently available. This will net an 1st gear ratio of roughly 1:1 which is what I've been riding with my 1x8 geared combo for six years now.

*Question of the day:* Will a Nexus 8 speed twist shifter work with the Alfine 8? I was an early adopter of grip-shift, and really just can't stomach the thought of using the Alfine trigger shifter.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

_CJ said:


> *Question of the day:* Will a Nexus 8 speed twist shifter work with the Alfine 8?


Yes


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I love the A8 on my pugs. If I were to do it again, I would buy the A11. my wife's A11, on her 907, has been flawless.


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## Dan Burkhart (Mar 18, 2014)

Nobody has mentioned the obvious. If the frame in the photo above is the one planned for the build, a belt is a non starter. I don't see an opening in the triangle.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Dan Burkhart said:


> Nobody has mentioned the obvious. If the frame in the photo above is the one planned for the build, a belt is a non starter. I don't see an opening in the triangle.


Folks running belts are creating openings on the driveside of the rear triangle using a number of methods. So that's not a problem as long as you have budgeted the cost into the build.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Dan Burkhart said:


> Nobody has mentioned the obvious. If the frame in the photo above is the one planned for the build, a belt is a non starter. I don't see an opening in the triangle.


Not a problem for me to fab up a frame splitter and braze it in. Also going to have to notch the chainstay to clear the front cog, but again not a problem.


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## Dan Burkhart (Mar 18, 2014)

_CJ said:


> Not a problem for me to fab up a frame splitter and braze it in. Also going to have to notch the chainstay to clear the front cog, but again not a problem.


 OK, sounds like you have those bases covered.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

1spd1way said:


> I love the A8 on my pugs. If I were to do it again, I would buy the A11. my wife's A11, on her 907, has been flawless.


Looking at the ratios of the A11, it only adds more top end gears. 1st gear is the same ratio as the A8, so it does nothing to improve the low end unless the primary ratios are changed, which increases applied torque throughout the entire range possibly leading to early failure?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

_CJ said:


> Looking at the ratios of the A11, it only adds more top end gears. 1st gear is the same ratio as the A8, so it does nothing to improve the low end unless the primary ratios are changed, which increases applied torque throughout the entire range possibly leading to early failure?


I've got a couple A8's and an A11. Given the cost differential vs. the additional top end gearing which I don't care about too much on dirt I'd buy more A8's before another A11.

There is also no twist/grip shift for the A11.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Frame in hand....

View attachment 893448


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> Folks running belts are creating openings on the driveside of the rear triangle using a number of methods. So that's not a problem as long as you have budgeted the cost into the build.


any of the new surly bikes with the mds system can be easily modified to accept a belt. linky and linky


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

monogod said:


> any of the new surly bikes with the mds system can be easily modified to accept a belt. linky and linky


yup, that's pretty much the technique I decided to go with, just need to fabricate a plate to sandwich on top of the dropout after it's cut. Also decided to use a butane mini-torch to heat and bend the chainstay for front cog clearance instead of cutting and brazing. Trying to do this in such a way that it can be easily duplicated by anyone with limited tools and experience.

Haven't made much progress other than collecting parts. I'll probably get back to it next month. Busy with other projects right now....


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

It"s been a while, but I'm finally getting back on the project. Spent a little time clearancing the chainstay for the front CDX cog yesterday and took some pictures along the way.

With the help of the Gates belt drive website, I was able to calculate how much the chainstay needed to be clearanced, and where. I ended up using a simple propane torch to heat the metal cherry red before shaping it with a hammer. It all went very smoothly, no problems so far.

Sanded off the paint in the area to be clearanced.
View attachment 969210


Marked the opposite chainstay to use as a visual reference of where the clearancing needed to be.
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Heated the metal to cherry red with a propane torch.
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Bent the metal while it was hot using an old body hammer with a curved face.
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Verified that I had clearanced the chainstay enough based on previous calculations.
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Belt line looks good with the Alfine8 in place.
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Just enough clearance between the cog and stay
View attachment 969216


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

More work tonight....

Decided to go with a 39 tooth front cog for 39x24 instead of the 46x24 originally planned. The 46x24 would have been pretty close to my current 32 front with 11-32 rear, and I've been wanting more low range. The 39x24 will be about the same as a 32 front with a 12-36 rear. Primary drive will be 1.625:1 which I'm hoping won't blow the hub apart. Everything I've read indicates people are running much lower primary ratios without issue.

Anyhow. Here's the latest.

I was hoping to use the outer chainring location, but needed to use the middle chainring location to get the belt-line close with the bottom bracket I ended up using. The middle location required some clearancing to mount the ring.
View attachment 970235


Added a 1mm shim to get the belt-line as close as I can.
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Heavy tooth file to clearance the ID of the middle ring mounting flange.
View attachment 970237


Squared up the flange with a finer tooth file.
View attachment 970238


Frame clearance is right at the 2mm spec with the belt-line where it needs to be.
View attachment 970239


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

looking good, cj. :thumbsup:


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

And some more tonight.....

Made a little paper template of the link that would be needed to join the frame back together after cutting it for belt installation
View attachment 971458


Transfered the template to 1/8" steel.
View attachment 971457


A little shaping on the grinder.
View attachment 971459


Drilled holes, BEFORE cutting the frame, attempted to tap the hole, but gave up after destroying two taps and drilled out bigger to use a screw and nut arrangement.
View attachment 971460


No going back now.
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BINGO!
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Still need a belt tensioner, but this is the basic setup
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View attachment 971464


Belt line is dead nuts, rolls over nice and smooth.
View attachment 971465


It's probably worth mentioning at this point that the 39 tooth front cog wouldn't have required nearly as much clearancing as the 46 that I was initially planning to use. At the time I laid out this project and ordered the 46 front (almost a year ago), the 39 wasn't yet available. If anyone plans to do something like this themselves, I'd STRONGLY recommend going with a 39. Hopefully I didn't unnecessarily compromise the frame by clearancing it for the 46. Time will tell I guess.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

Nice work!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Doing a little more work this weekend....

Couldn't stand the uglyness of the disc brake hanger on the fork (I prefer V-brakes), so I cut it off and painted the fork.

View attachment 983603


Painted the bare metal spots on the frame with some old orange engine paint I had in the back of the cabinet. Surprisingly a pretty good match.

View attachment 983604


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

More progress. Cut the fork to length, installed some parts. It's starting to look like a bike!

View attachment 983864


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I haven't built a wheel in probably over twenty years, but this went together without a hitch. Power of the internet and free on-line spoke length calculators I guess. Went with 14G spokes in a 2-cross lacing. I had an old WTB wheelset that I liked, so I took apart the old rear wheel and used the rim for the new IGH wheel, and now it's a matching wheelset for the bike with the original WTB front hub, matching WTB rims, and matching black spokes with chrome nipples.

View attachment 986278


Finally on the ground and looking pretty sharp if I do say so myself. About 26 pounds on my scale. Maybe a little BMX cruiser-y even, and I'm an old BMX kid from the 70's, so that'll work. Don't have the shifter installed or the rear brake working yet, but I couldn't resist taking it for a quick little test ride down the driveway in the rain. Seems to work great. Spooky smooth and silent. Can't wait to get it finished up and out on the trails!

View attachment 986279


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Finally got it done today!

All that remains is a proper test ride, if it ever stops raining. Took it up and down the street in the rain, and everything worked perfectly. Shifted on cue, no weird noised, so far so good!

View attachment 987186


Bought some BMX chain tensioners, and got everything working together with a little persuasion. Flipped the axle locators so the cable could be routed up the seat stay instead of the chain stay.

View attachment 987185


Wrapped the shifter cable around the seat stay to keep it in place, and piggy backed it on top of the brake cable along the top tube.

View attachment 987184


Ready to rock!


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## irrah (Dec 18, 2008)

Looks good,

But if you want to keep your hub in good shape, please shorten and unwrap that shifter cable.
Alfine shifter return spring is not very strong
The cable run has to be as straight as possible. 
When cable is wound around the seat stay there is unnecessary friction.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

_CJ said:


> Finally got it done today!


That turned out sweet. Well done.

Agreed on the wrapped cable though... zip ties if nothing else.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Very nice, greta work! Triple chime in in the shifter cable, unwrap the cable or expect trouble, esp in the cold (when the stock A8 hub lube gets sticky).


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Thanks guys. I unwrapped the cable last night and re-routed it as straight as possible. Didn't seem to make much difference screwing around in the garage, but out on the trail today shifting was noticeably easier.

About 25 miles of riding so far, and no complaints. Took it for a short ride Sunday just to see if it worked, and I was overjoyed with the performance, so I decided this was going to be my primary bike from now on and swapped over all the best parts from my other bike....carbon post/bars, grips, brake levers, etc.

About the only thing odd is a weird sensation when grinding hard up a steep hill....it seems like there's some drag that gets progressively worse the longer I lay down the power, but disappears right away if I lighten up and don't pedal as hard, or use an easier gear with a higher cadence. Almost like the belt is stretching? Or some bearings/gears inside the hub are heating up and growing so they don't mesh as well? Doesn't seem to matter which gear. Maybe the hub isn't broken-in yet? Either way, not a big deal so far. There's virtually no discernable drag at any other time. If anything, it's encouraging me to spin a higher cadence instead of mashing.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Very nice build! I feel that a belt drive might be the ultimate for riding the beach or sand (although I'm spinning a KMC Rustbuster chain to drive my A-8, since I have a stock Pugsley frame).
I haven't noticed the drag of which you speak. So maybe it is "belt stretch" that you are experiencing. I'm just guessing, though.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Got out for a longer ride today...about twenty five miles in two and half hours. Loving it! So much so, that I'm starting to think there's some sort of conspiracy in the industry to bury internally geared hubs because all the problems and parts associated with cassettes and chain-rings are more profitable. The hub just flat out works great. Belt drive too. It's weird not having to think about oiling the chain before every ride, and I rode through some stuff today that would have had my old chain and gears grinding...not a peep from the belt.

View attachment 988469

View attachment 988470

View attachment 988471


I didn't mention it before, but I decided to ditch the camelback in conjunction with this build. Been riding with one for about 22 years, and for whatever reason it has been getting on my nerves lately. Went with a tool bag that mounts up front inside the frame thinking that it might help balance the bike a bit with that hub adding weight in the rear. I kind of like the look, sort of like a tank on an old cruiser bike. It holds everything I carried in the backpack, and two bottles of water is plenty. Seems to balance the bike nicely too.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Looking great cj & riding it is what t is all about. Enjoy


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Update: Figured out the weird drag/vibration thing......the shifter cable receptacle thing that attaches to the hub was rubbing the belt under load. Frame flex maybe? I don't know, but a zip tie seems to have solved the situation.

Several hours on the bike now, and I'm loving it! It's been very wet/rainy this spring, and the belt-drive could care less. Conditions like these would have had my chain screaming for mercy.


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