# Singlespeed makes you stronger... For singlespeed.



## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Today I rode my geared 29er rigid (yes, I know), and felt like hell on the climbs that I normally mash up. I always felt that riding SS kind of messes up my geared riding.

Anybody else "go both ways" and notice this? Spinning up the climbs today just destroyed me.


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## Orkje (May 3, 2006)

I agree. I've experienced it on several occasions: when coming back from a knee injury that forbade ss riding, and when going to the Alps a couple of years back. Climbs that I'm absolutely certain I could have tackled on my ss (well, with a slightly lower gearing than my regular setup) simply destroyed me. There's a technique to ss riding, but the same goes for geared riding. Sitting and spinning may be more efficient than slow, out-of-the-saddle mashing but it sure didn't feel like it! Oh, and obviously every single gear lacks the smoothness you come to take for granted after riding ss for a long time...
Also, my lower back (weak area through injury) much prefers standing to sitting when the trail/road points upwards.

Basically, the only time I run gears is when doing a fully loaded tour. 20+kg of luggage turn your bike into a whole different beast. I've done one loaded tour on a ss and after six days my knees gave out. The good thing about touring, of course, is that you train as you go. You gradually get used to geared riding again and while taking in the sights you generally don't allow yourself to get destroyed.


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

I notice the opposite myself after riding SS rigid. Ridden a friend's geared FS the other day and I'm spinning up the hills easy.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

It depends a lot on how you approach it. I'm picking up a geared bike after spending most of this year on a SS, and a friend of mine told me to be prepared to like much taller gears for everything on the geared bike than I used to, and that I wouldn't be as comfortable sitting and spinning.


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## SlowPokePete (Mar 27, 2006)

Dion said:


> Today I rode my geared 29er rigid (yes, I know), and felt like hell on the climbs that I normally mash up.


Definitely true for me.

And if your SS is a full rigid, and your geared bike is a full sus, it's even worse. My last two rides on the geared FS makes me wonder how people can actually climb a hill on one :madman:

I sold my geared rigid bike over the summer, thinking I would prefer the full susp as a backup. Not sure that is the case...

SPP


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

I do find it hard to get in a rhythm on my geared bike. Feel like I'm constantly shifting to find the sweet spot...majority of the time it seems I can never find it.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

The SS trains me to mash, and that doesn't work well with gears. it's a different approach to riding and it's tough to switch back and forth efficiently, I think

While I can be relatively fast on the geared bike, I don't have near as much _fun _on my geared bike, so I just don't ride it.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

A1an said:


> ...Feel like I'm constantly shifting to find the sweet spot.


Which is exactly what you're supposed to be doing. The "sweet spot" is constantly changing unless you're powering on a straight road or something... On varied terrain, you have the option to change to the "optimal" gear. That is _the _strength of a geared bike of a singlespeed.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

BShow said:


> Which is exactly what you're supposed to be doing. The "sweet spot" is constantly changing unless you're powering on a straight road or something... On varied terrain, you have the option to change to the "optimal" gear. That is _the _strength of a geared bike of a singlespeed.


Eh...I guess. On the singlespeed it always feels right to me, even if I'm struggling up a hill or spinning like mad on a flat. Perhaps the sweet spot for me is adjusting my legs to deal with changes in the trail instead of relying on a mechanical change.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

A1an said:


> Eh...I guess. On the singlespeed it always feels right to me, even if I'm struggling up a hill or spinning like mad on a flat. Perhaps the sweet spot for me is adjusting my legs to deal with changes in the trail instead of relying on a mechanical change.


This.


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

A1an said:


> I do find it hard to get in a rhythm on my geared bike. Feel like I'm constantly shifting to find the sweet spot...majority of the time it seems I can never find it.


I never bothered to find the right gear. For me, lowest gear for any sort of hills and highest once I get any momentum. lol.

With gears, I tend to rely more on gears than my own pedalling, and I tend to walk more hills on gears than ss. For me, I think it's more of my attitude when approaching a hill.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

Yes and no. Singlespeed has definitely improved my spin, as I am geared more for the hills. It does mess with your climbing though. But, the biggest thing I notice when I go back to gears is that I have to remind myself when to shift.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Dion said:


> Today I rode my geared 29er rigid (yes, I know), and felt like hell on the climbs that I normally mash up. I always felt that riding SS kind of messes up my geared riding.
> 
> Anybody else "go both ways" and notice this? Spinning up the climbs today just destroyed me.


I've had the opposite experience. Started SSing on a hard tail 29er back in February after a couple years of geared riding. I've been moving on to smaller cogs during this time- started with 20t on technical single track with plenty of climb and have worked my way down to 16t on more flowy trails.

The past month or so it is obvious to others that I am stronger on climbs and have much better endurance on long pulls. I do a fast paced geared 29er ride (20-30 miles on average, @15+ MPH) every Wednesday and four rides in a row I've been feeling awesome and crushing on long climbs. I ride SS and geared each week between 70-100+ miles total which is probably part of why I don't mind mashing or spinning SS or geared I guess...


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## vtskibum (Jun 7, 2006)

After nearly a year (and several before) of 90% SS MTB-ing bought a 2x10 FS29 (to replace a 1x9 HT) and haven't had too much difficulty w/ sit spin. As someone mentioned it's still in a pretty big gear though, so sit and spinning at an SS-like cadence. I find I ride my road bike this way too, w/ a particularly SS-like comfortable cadence. As BShow said, that's the intended idea w/ gears anyway, just now with SS strength I can pull it off.


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## Orkje (May 3, 2006)

A1an said:


> Eh...I guess. On the singlespeed it always feels right to me, even if I'm struggling up a hill or spinning like mad on a flat. Perhaps the sweet spot for me is adjusting my legs to deal with changes in the trail instead of relying on a mechanical change.


This, too.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

This is an excellent thread. Subscribed.

This has got me thinking twice about going back to gears.

But at the same time, kinda crushes the now seemingly mythical "go SS and you'll be stronger" statement.

I'm actually contemplating going 1x10 because I plan to use my one-and-only bike for commuting as well as trail riding.

edit: this is swaying me to get a suspension fork instead of the the 1x10 drivetrain...


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## Jay Uno (Jul 10, 2010)

SS can make you stronger but doesn't at all guarantee to make you a faster rider.

Which is why I don't have a SS.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

I dont own suspension now, 1 x rigid SS and 2 x rigid fatbikes. I reckon cranking a SS has made me a stronger rider all round, the fatbikes are 1 x 10, i often stick it in the middle of the cassette and SS style them up a hill. I like the gears on the fattys for techy stuff :thumbsup:


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

r1Gel said:


> But at the same time, kinda crushes the now seemingly mythical "go SS and you'll be stronger" statement.
> 
> I'm actually contemplating going 1x10 because I plan to use my one-and-only bike for commuting as well as trail riding.


Not true... Riding any bike will help you be a stronger rider. The SS just forces you to ride differently which can help you strengthen particular aspects of your riding that you might not develop on a geared bike.

For me, The singlespeed trains me to use momentum to my advantage - which will help on any bike. The SS also forces me to grind up climbs which develops power. Riding flats on the SS will help me smooth out my pedal stroke.

It's my opinion that you should vary your riding as much as possible so that you're working on all aspects of your riding and fitness. That includes riding different bikes if you have the means to do so. For example, the fitness you can gain from riding a road bike is impossible to match by riding a singlespeed on the trails - just as the bike handling skills you gain from riding your SS on the rock gardens is impossible to match by riding your road bike.

Re: commuting... I know nothing of your commute, but personally, if I had to commute on my SS mountain bike, I'd be hating life. I'd look for a cheap road bike or even a "commuter" type bicycle rather than regularly using the SS on the pavement.


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## stackwalker (Jul 7, 2011)

It's a different style of riding. You use different muscle groups. I find that I keep different seat post heights on my SS vs geared, different aches and soreness depending on shifty or SS. Also, if you spend 30 minutes straight trying to mash up a hill you have no business mashing on where your cranks make one revolution every 8 seconds and your head feels like it's going to explode - you can get a vitreous hemorrhage!!! (ruptured blood vessel inside your eye) I'm staring at it right now...


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## WilliamK (Jul 29, 2009)

*Exceptions to the rule*

Remembering an old thread seen in this forum about climbing and how much sitting and standing we do, I think that some of the differences in experience had in going back to FS have to do with the differences in preferred climbing technique maybe, ie those that sit more and those that stand more
.
Even so, I think the saying remains basically true. Sure spinning up hills on a FS can feel different and surprisingly taxing. After a couple of rides it gets better. What I did find though is that when I was hammering an FS hard (for me) and getting out of the saddle and sprinting, clicking up a gear or two as I go, I was much stronger because of recent SS activity. I think that with the more standing you do on your SS, the more strength you develop in your core body and that helps all riding. My core is certainly noticeable for me as I head towards the two hour mark on the SS and I am approaching a technical climb. When fresh no worries, but when tired I can feel my core screaming at me for moving my weight around for traction let alone using my depleted energy reserves for the necessary upwards propulsion. You gotta love the SS battle.

There's a ride I do with a buddy, it ends with a climb up a straight fireroad to the carpark. We always sprint up the hill for the home run. Its nuts and we are already buggered. Recently I FS up there and have sprinted up there in top gear, locking the front fork and applying all of my limited SS skills to mashing. I'd never had done that before I was SS. I beat my mate too, only because he was laughing at me while watching the rear shock suck the power out of my pedal strokes. It's all about fun.

The other thing that SS does for me is improve my cardio - I suck it in hard on those climbs, much harder than sit and spin.

I feel that SS certainly improves the core, improves the momentum technique and in the end, what another writer has said here, a mix of riding is the best way of ensuring the improvement or rider strengthening all round. As does doing more riding. So the saying is part true; and thanks for reading all that because I have taken you nowhere with this circular comment - oops.


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## Jarz (Sep 3, 2010)

I've been on singlespeed solely for about a year and just picked up a geared bike. I'll tell ya one thing i've totally changed the way i ride. i'm interested to see how going to a squishy geared bike will feel after a year without those luxuries. Not sure yet if my singlespeeding will have a negative result on my geared riding yet, i guess we'll see!


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Yes, I too have noticed more back pain when riding the geared F/S. Nearly all my time is spent on a rigid SS, and agree that building / keeping momentum transfers directly, also that I push a bigger gear than before. 
Am I faster? DH - yes, uphill - no, avg. speed probably not, yet I sure enjoy blasting over roots & rocks when normally I'd be focused on picking a line.

Heading to WV for the weekend, and hope that my recent geared rides have helped to ease the pain... if not, a couple of these will. :thumbsup:


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

I am in 3 weeks on my SS. I have never gassed so hard and recover so quick now. I am climbing a bit faster than my FS geared. DH are slow for me as I love plush suspension, coming from MX riding. This SS thing is great though, can't wait to move to a 19 tooth in da rear..


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Wow. I just thought it was me. Riding the SS is enjoyable where the geared FS I run out of energy quick. Been riding for a little while now and keep coming back to the SS, yes even rigid. Here SS seems to be the quickest method to make your self an outcast. If you enjoy getting out to ride then keep riding no matter the bike.

Over all speed I am slower than some of the masses. Biking in general I am trying to change my riding style some seeing if it will result in quicker lap times and more confidence riding DH. Time will tell if it works.


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## honns (Sep 2, 2011)

My experience mirrors a couple on here. I enjoy SS'ing and find that it does make my core stronger, but It doesn't translate directly into the endurance needed for geared biking. I find that SS is more about momentum at all costs (strength), where geared riding is more a game of efficiency(endurance). 

As others have said above, the biggest thing I've learned from SS'ing is how to pick a good line. Something that a F/S doesn't require you to do. Whenever I hop back on my F/S I ride with reckless abandon for the first 15 min, just because I can.


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## stubecontinued (Mar 14, 2007)

I ride geared on the road (and off a little) I think riding geared makes me stronger on the SS. I tend to be pedaling as opposed to coasting the downhills which makes me stronger.... I think.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

FWIW, I've only owned one FS bike in my life, and rode it only a handful of times. Coming from BMX, I'm actually faster on my rigid bike, because the *slight* loss of speed that a suspension for would improve on in descending is taken up on the climbing efficiency of the rigid. 

I went 1X8 on my 1986 Rockhopper (32 X 11-34). Although this is not the first time going 1X, I realized it's like riding a SS with "8 options" - because even the 34T cog requires some mashing on certain climbs. It's kinda like an inbetweener, that I think would go nicely with spinning and mashing, and not take away from either.


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## sevenpedaler (Jun 29, 2009)

I rode my first bike at the age of 5 without training wheels and it had one gear. I rode bikes with one speed until I was into my late adolescence. "MORE GEARS MAN!" That was my mantra through the years. I loved the advances in drive train technology. (still think it is interesting) I was a roadie for years shifting and spinning my ass off up hills and phucking with derailleurs and shifters. I got into mountain bikes with full suspension and all kinds of fancy suspensions and even it's own BRAIN! I swore off single speeds. I have bad knees. "Stay away from single speeds" one guy said to me after telling of my many knee surgeries.

One day my saddle broke on a ride at a local trail. I thought my day was over. Low and behold, there was a bike demo going on the same day. I decided to try a single speed "just for the hell of it". The rep let my take out his person bike. It was a Ti Salsa Selma with Hope hubs and brakes and a Sid with 20mm through axle. I think you could hear my screams of excitement a half mile away. It wasn't so much the bike, but the elation of being in the right gear ALL OF THE TIME! It didn't matter that it was a Salsa or a Kona or a Lynskey. It was the fact that I didn't have to worry about shifting or cross chaining or anything other than the ride. I had to have one.
I want home and found a 24" Ventana El Commandante for sale in the classifieds (I'm rather tall) and made the deal straight away. To make a long story short....I'm never going back to gears. I'm stronger, faster, smarter and better looking since switching to SS. My geared bikes suck and are for sale. BTW, my "bad knees" have never been stronger since the switch. ONE PHUCHING SPEED!
Thanks for letting me rant.

BTW, I put the hurt on a geared racer today. Not bad for an old man.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

sevenpedaler said:


> I rode my first bike at the age of 5 without training wheels and it had one gear. I rode bikes with one speed until I was into my late adolescence. "MORE GEARS MAN!" That was my mantra through the years. I loved the advances in drive train technology. (still think it is interesting) I was a roadie for years shifting and spinning my ass off up hills and phucking with derailleurs and shifters. I got into mountain bikes with full suspension and all kinds of fancy suspensions and even it's own BRAIN! I swore off single speeds. I have bad knees. "Stay away from single speeds" one guy said to me after telling of my many knee surgeries.
> 
> One day my saddle broke on a ride at a local trail. I thought my day was over. Low and behold, there was a bike demo going on the same day. I decided to try a single speed "just for the hell of it". The rep let my take out his person bike. It was a Ti Salsa Selma with Hope hubs and brakes and a Sid with 20mm through axle. I think you could hear my screams of excitement a half mile away. It wasn't so much the bike, but the elation of being in the right gear ALL OF THE TIME! It didn't matter that it was a Salsa or a Kona or a Lynskey. It was the fact that I didn't have to worry about shifting or cross chaining or anything other than the ride. I had to have one.
> I want home and found a 24" Ventana El Commandante for sale in the classifieds (I'm rather tall) and made the deal straight away. To make a long story short....I'm never going back to gears. I'm stronger, faster, smarter and better looking since switching to SS. My geared bikes suck and are for sale. BTW, my "bad knees" have never been stronger since the switch. ONE PHUCHING SPEED!
> ...


That's a good story, man! I gave you positive rep to try and take away from that red chicklet of yours


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

Dion said:


> FWIW, I've only owned one FS bike in my life, and rode it only a handful of times. Coming from BMX, I'm actually faster on my rigid bike, because the *slight* loss of speed that a suspension for would improve on in descending is taken up on the climbing efficiency of the rigid..


^That^ Remember man, old habits die hard. I'll bet you a LosGatosMeats Rolli you ride like I do, coming from a strong bmx background you tend to mash or as everyone else calls it "pedaling in squares".

I got a text from your SS, it said "..if you ever cheat on me again I'll tell your lady about our relationship and will get all psycho on ya the next time you try to take me out after cheating.".

:thumbsup: Go stomp some hills SS'n, it's good for your heart rate as well as your pain threshold. 



Dion said:


> That's a good story, man! I gave you positive rep to try and take away from that red chicklet of yours


OK, this thread's worthless without pics, someone w/ a screen-name like sevenpedaler needs to cough up a bike quiver pic, immediately.


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## fwinter (Nov 20, 2010)

This all suits me as I'd hate to think I was wasting my time by going back to gears in spring


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## sevenpedaler (Jun 29, 2009)

My road ride is a Seven Axiom ti. It is 10 years old. No pics in my phone, sorry.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I agree. SS is poor cross training for geared xc and road. I rode a SS for a couple years before I stared riding road. I developed awfully inefficient climbing form. I had to learn how to sit and spin my gear. 


Now, I still throw in a couple SS rides per week for the fun factor.


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## blum585 (Mar 28, 2012)

Riding a Bike makes you stronger for... Riding a bike! It's all about the fun! Ride whatever throws a smile on your face!


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## 2times (Jul 14, 2006)

SheepO, interesting take. I actually have the opposite experience. Since I have been riding SS, my geared performance has improved. Here's my theory: When I ride SS, if I am beat from standing and mashing and the trail is only slightly uphill, I'll sit and spin as best as I can because the leg muscles used when sitting and pedaling aren't as tired as the one's used for standing and mashing. My theory is that over time my "sit and spin" muscles have become stronger. We did a weekend in Big Bear (So Cal Mountains) recently and I rode my FS geared bike exclusively. During this trip I felt noticeably stronger on my geared bike and before this trip I had been riding SS for every ride.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I have a really poor pedal stroke. Everyone tells me that to improve my pedal stroke, I should spin more at a high cadence. I do that a lot with 32:21 gearing!

I did just read some "go fast" tips that say staying in the saddle on climbs is more efficient. I had been of the habit that as soon as the trail turned skyward, I was out of the saddle and mashing away. On my last ride, I forced myself to sit unless I didn't have enough strength to clean the hill. Set a new PR climbing one of the hills on my ride that way, and was amazed at how easy it was.

That said, I also feel like my shifting skills (knowing when to shift and how low of a gear to shift to) aren't very good. I never feel like I'm in the right gear and waste a lot of time and mental energy screwing around with it. I think that is why I like the SS, I can never be in the wrong gear. Frees up the precious few brain cycles I have to focus on line and momentum.


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## Sandrenseren (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm pretty new at mountain biking. I spent a year sitting and spinning on my geared bike and every time I was standing up and mashing I ran out of steam in seconds and had to sit down and spin again. I know from first hand experience that the muscles used for sitting and spinning is not the same as those used for standing and mashing. Three months ago I got into singlespeed and now I can stand and mash for extended periods of time. 

It makes sense that if you use different muscles when sitting and spinning compared to standing and mashing, you'll eventually become stronger at the stuff you do a lot and probably weaker at the stuff you do a little. 

I would say that singlespeed has made me stronger. I used to be able to sit and spin for hours, but very weak when standing and mashing. Now I'm definitely a lot more used to standing and mashing and can do so for quite a while. I still sit and spin on the flatter parts and due to only one gear have also improved my max cadence. 

However if you ride your singlespeed in an area with very little flat bits and almost never sit and spin anymore, it's understandable if you've grown weaker in that regard. Singlespeed will probably mess up your "sit and spin" abilities if you never sit and spin anymore.


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## Mojo Man (Sep 1, 2007)

2times said:


> SheepO, interesting take. I actually have the opposite experience. Since I have been riding SS, my geared performance has improved. Here's my theory: When I ride SS, if I am beat from standing and mashing and the trail is only slightly uphill, I'll sit and spin as best as I can because the leg muscles used when sitting and pedaling aren't as tired as the one's used for standing and mashing. My theory is that over time my "sit and spin" muscles have become stronger. We did a weekend in Big Bear (So Cal Mountains) recently and I rode my FS geared bike exclusively. During this trip I felt noticeably stronger on my geared bike and before this trip I had been riding SS for every ride.


I agree

Mojo


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## NorthGaZJ (Sep 13, 2012)

I found that the transition from my geared 26er FS to my recently built 29er hardtail SS was somewhat easy. After riding the SS for three weeks I rode the FS again and felt like it was my first time on a bike. I'm going to try and swap back and forth more regularly so that my brain isn't constantly trying to retrain itself.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

An observation:

I spent from 2008 to this January (2012) exclusively on road bikes because I hurt my back. Ok, it's a SS forum, we're already weird. Full disclosure - they're recumbent road bikes. They don't hurt my back, but ALL you can do is sit and spin, there is no standing and mashing.

January 2012 - I bought a SS MTB because my son wanted to start riding trails and it was cheap. Figured it would work fine for riding with him. I discover my back no longer bothers me like it did, and the game is on. I started racking up some serious miles. I sold one of my road bikes, and ordered a full squish geared MTB. Why would I do that?!!?

At my age - ok, any age, a rigid bike (which my SS is) can dish out a lot of punishment. There are days when I don't want that punishment. Also, when I'm riding in a group, sometimes it's hard to go slow enough on my SS to let everyone keep up, but then other times I feel like I'm holding them up. So I'm kind of doing this to be polite to the groups I ride with too.

Yesterday I picked up the new bike, and took it to my usual spot. Turned out my standard 7ish mile ride there, just romping around having fun. I didn't feel any less tired at that end, or any more tired. Maybe it's all the road biking I've done? Anyhow it was different, but I didn't feel like I was unprepared for it. Ultimately, I think that a certain level of fitness will help you perform better under any circumstances, but yes, using different muscle groups will affect performance.

Fear not, the majority of my solo rides will still be on the SS, and a couple of the guys I ride with are now in the process of finding or building SS bikes and want to do a weekly SS ride in my area.


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## IamtheYeti (Aug 11, 2012)

I went on my 3rd ride yesterday with my new SS. The problem that I am running into is that I am still learning to pace myself and with a geared bike that was easier. Whenever I got tired, I would just change gears. Now riding SS, I basically am red lining all the time.

It finally hit me about halfway through my ride yesterday what I was doing and the last part of my ride was much much better. 

To me it would seem that switching between SS and geared might be a little challenging. Having the muscle memory to do one or the other would cause some inefficiency. When I first start riding SS, there would be times that I would go to change gears, only for it not to be there. 

I think also there are probably some hills that I've walked that I couldve probably made on my geared bike. There arent that many but that little rest, jumping off the bike and walking, can be a huge difference.


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