# XTR Shadow Weight



## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

I got my XTR shadow which I have been craving (lusting) for since it was first announced. It was hard to find one but here it is.:thumbsup: 

I will try and install it in the next couple of days and post a mini review. After using rear dérailleurs for many decades this one certainly is pretty wild looking. It bends and moves in what seems like pretty alien directions to me. This is not the old school one that I have always dealt with, very different. I played with one on display at Interbike but when you have it in your hands before its installed its a whole lot of unfamiliar territory. Cool!


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

yeah... it looks awesome...

I have the XT version and love it... you are in for a treat! :thumbsup:


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

I don't know how you can have it off your bike... I know I couldn't!

Ride it and tell us how you like it, I'm in the process of choosing one of those or XO...


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

pretty sweet, I've been sporting an XT Shadow for the last few months, super impressed. I've been trying to justify an XTR, but the price is a pain point. XTR Shadow about $190 to my door, XT cost me $72 to my door. I'm waiting till they hit ebay is mass qty, $150 would be reasonable.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

I look forward to your review. IRD mentions on their website that they think Shimano compromised shifting by sacrificing stiffness for light weight.
http://www.interlocracing.com/faq_tech.html#xtrno


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

I am also waiting for the prices to go down - and they will before spring arrives. 

Current Europe price is 130-140Eur - I bet (hope) that in one month it will be in the 100-110 range. First race is in February...

fab


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

Very nice. I snagged an XT Shadow derailleur for $46 shipped off of Ebay. I've had it on my bike for about a month now and with the Sram Attack shifters it works excellent! While the XTR is 55 grams lighter its kind of hard to pony up $150 for 55 grams.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

Does your Shadow XT seem to perform any better than standard XT, or does it just look better?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

EuroMack said:


> Does your Shadow XT seem to perform any better than standard XT, or does it just look better?


spring is a bit stronger so shifting is a bit less "smooth" but crisper.....


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

A nice post for a change with something new to look at with a weight.:thumbsup: Like Snowdrifter, I'll wait for Ebay stock to hit and save a few $. It looks FLY!:yesnod:


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

It bends and moves like the derailleurs suntour released a few years ago... which is ironic since in the past, shimano had a habit of ripping its derailleur designs direct from patented designs of suntour (and getting sued for it). Nice to see nothing changes as time marches on.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*same weight*

medium cage here as well: 181g

i will weigh the standard pulleys as those seem still to have some potential left...


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## chrism (Jan 27, 2004)

*Overaccurate scales*



nino said:


> medium cage here as well: 181g
> 
> i will weigh the standard pulleys as those seem still to have some potential left...


If that's the same weight as pastajet's, what's the point in having scales which weigh to 0.1g?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

chrism said:


> If that's the same weight as pastajet's, what's the point in having scales which weigh to 0.1g?


my scale was jumping from 180.9 to 181

0,1 difference might come from grease or humidity in my basement

no serious: it serves when you are shaving parts and compare them before and after. sure, 1g increments should be plenty accurate but it's nice to have 0,1 readings.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

But the medium cage is the GS or the SGS?

those weights are for the SGS?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

medium is GS, long is SGS


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

and can I use the medium GS with a 11-34/22-44?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

STS said:


> and can I use the medium GS with a 11-34/22-44?


no... according to shimano..... but *if you don't cross chain (really)*, it works


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

And the advantages in having a medium cage vs. a long cage are...?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Batas said:


> And the advantages in having a medium cage vs. a long cage are...?


shorter chain and less chain slap basically


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

crisillo said:


> shorter chain and less chain slap basically


 Thats what I thought... Mainly because if the spring is the same on both versions, the GS cage will have more force to stretch the chain... Mmmm...

One thing I notice on my current xtr der. is that sometimes rocks it the area near the lower pulley... There are some marks there... I wonder if the carbon plates of the shadow tolerate that...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

nino said:


> my scale was jumping from 180.9 to 181
> 
> 0,1 difference might come from grease or humidity in my basement
> 
> no serious: it serves when you are shaving parts and compare them before and after. sure, 1g increments should be plenty accurate but it's nice to have 0,1 readings.


You should put a cardboard box around your scale to shield the air / draft . That way the readings don't fluctuate.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> You should put a cardboard box around your scale to shield the air / draft . That way the readings don't fluctuate.


 But then he couldn't read the value!  Plexiglas!


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

FYI, I was weighing a large cage in my initial picture and it weighed .1g less then Nino's Medium :thumbsup: 

I had my mechanic install it and I went out for a short ride today. After getting the Alligator i-Links housing to settle down and a bit of on trail tuning it seemed to shift just fine. I need a few more rides before I can make any sort of review on the dérailleur. I always bash parts so we'll so how the XTR shadow survives. I do dislike not having a barrel adjuster, that it the only downfall so far.

I use a 11/32 with a 22/44 and would never use a medium cage for that combo, just to many factors and stress on the drivetrain. No weight savings by using the medium cage!

At the .1g accuracy you should not have issues with drafts in the room.  If you had large temperature fluctuations then the scale can have some variations. Tonight I will do an experiment and weigh one of my calibrated weights and then point a hair dryer at it. Lets see what happens?  Obviously when you weigh at .001g you need an enclosure and a lot of .01g come with attachable enclosures.

Edit: spelling error


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

pastajet said:


> I do dislike not having a barrel adjuster, that it the only downfall so far.


What rear mechanical has a barrel adjuster these days? I do agree they're nice, but they're out like spandex!

FYI, you could try one of these STI barrel adjusters instead of a ferrule at the RD housing connection.

http://www.bikeparts.com/productinf...Adjuster-for-STI-levers-Pair-38942-46824.html


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

nino, can you confirm the distance between pulleys centers in your GS XTR?
is it 67mm as in old XTRs?
or longer?

thanks


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

*some tuning.....*

selfmade carbon pulleys,
alum pulley screws,
M6 alum cable screw.


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

Sonny said:


> selfmade carbon pulleys,
> alum pulley screws,
> M6 alum cable screw.


^^^^^ Very nice! :thumbsup: Can you PM me so I can order a set as well?


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## zauberer (Nov 22, 2007)

STS said:


> nino, can you confirm the distance between pulleys centers in your GS XTR?
> is it 67mm as in old XTRs?
> or longer?
> 
> thanks


XTR 971 GS: 67mm pulley distance, 195g









XTR 972 Shadow GS: 80mm pulley distance, 179g


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

supramk388 said:


> ^^^^^ Very nice! :thumbsup: Can you PM me so I can order a set as well?


All those parts i changed, u can find similar on ebay


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*How about...*




STS said:


> and can I use the medium GS with a 11-34/22-44?





crisillo said:


> no... according to shimano..... but *if you don't cross chain (really)*, it works


w/ DCLs, then 12-34; 44-22 combo...? Same case where I could use the GS, as long as no cross-chaining happens?

TIA!


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

hey that's great!! 80mm for the GS version

I think it will have enough tension force...

thanks


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Onie said:


> w/ DCLs, then 12-34; 44-22 combo...? Same case where I could use the GS, as long as no cross-chaining happens?
> 
> TIA!


the shifters (dual controls) don't play any role in this....the 12-34, 22-44 combo is above the tooth capacity claimed by shimano...... however if you don't cross chain (and I mean never  ), the RD can handle it just fine YMMV. Of course for the safest setup, one should do as shimano says.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

What if you had two or more links to your chain that when the gear is at 22-11 the chain is sloppy? That way i could be possible to get the 32-44 combination... And if you don't ride the latest combination, you shouldn't ride 11-22 too... Right?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*ride report...*

nothing special -shifts as smooth as any XTR before.

note: the cable goes now straight into the derailleur. no more loop in the back so added savings from running shorter housings/cables: i saved 3,9g on top - nice downside: no barrell adjuster.

mounted on the bike it looks cool. a sweet addition to my lightweight titanium cassette.

total savings on my Winterbike: 79g
XTR CS-970 11-32: 223g.............Nino's Titanium 11-32: 174g.....-49g
"old" XTR derailleur: 207g ......XTR shadow medium cage: 181g........-26g
shorter cable/housing.......-4g


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

It looks very nice on the bike. 

Nino, don't you think that the housing is "upside down"? It looks that water and debris can easily get in that way...

What about that pulley tuning you talked about?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Batas said:


> What if you had two or more links to your chain that when the gear is at 22-11 the chain is sloppy? That way i could be possible to get the 32-44 combination... And if you don't ride the latest combination, you shouldn't ride 11-22 too... Right?


yeah, I guess more chain could give you a little more room... but the whole point of going with the shorter cage was to reduce chain slap by running a shorter chain...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Yes, but I think that the chain slap is reduced mainly because of the higher tension that the GS version probably gives...


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## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

Wonder how much you could get the weight down with carbon pulleys and ti return spring.
I really liked the way the xt shadow shifted really close to cogs even with the extra pivot as long as you don't wind up with more slop with that pivot. Concering light weight/flex , I replaced my old Xtr low normal with Xt because of flex but after a year of use the Xt now has more slop than the Xtr had. I'm a little concerned about sideways flex of carbon on vs xt cast alum on shadow.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

ghawk said:


> I replaced my old Xtr low normal with Xt because of flex but after a year of use the Xt now has more slop than the Xtr had. I'm a little concerned about sideways flex of carbon on vs xt cast alum on shadow.


Do XTRs have 3 year warranty like the Dura-Ace Components? Else you could get yourself a new rear deraileur.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

pastajet said:


> FYI, I was weighing a large cage in my initial picture and it weighed .1g less then Nino's Medium :thumbsup:
> 
> I had my mechanic install it and I went out for a short ride today. After getting the Alligator i-Links housing to settle down and a bit of on trail tuning it seemed to shift just fine. I need a few more rides before I can make any sort of review on the dérailleur. I always bash parts so we'll so how the XTR shadow survives. I do dislike not having a barrel adjuster, that it the only downfall so far.
> 
> ...


you forget the longer chain needed, 2-3 chain parts, maybe around 15g
and more risk to hit it to rocks


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## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

> I do dislike not having a barrel adjuster, that it the only downfall so far.


Just put you a lil inline barrel adjuster, although with the shadow the last rear cable run is real short. I put one on the toptube cable run on my bikes. Esp for 4+ travel dual suspension bikes. Being able to do this adustment with a couple of adjusters in range of your reach while on the bike is important.
Do a web search the're easy to find. I used the little grey ones before they work fine.
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.c...air-Parts&sc=Derailleurs&tc=Adjusting-Barrels


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## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Do XTRs have 3 year warranty like the Dura-Ace Components? Else you could get yourself a new rear deraileur.


 Yea, I warrantied a few of the Dura-ace levers before switching to Campy. I don't think it's warranty-able if they deem it reg. wear and tear. That's Shitmano.


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## MrBigglesworth69 (Dec 6, 2007)

The older XTR didn't have a barrel adjuster, its on the levers!


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Sonny said:


> selfmade carbon pulleys,
> alum pulley screws,
> M6 alum cable screw.


 I thought that the M6 cable screw was alu already...?


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

If the Shadow GS (medium cage) has a 80mm pulley-to-pulley distance, has anyone measured the distance for the long cage version?
Also, any feedback from medium cage users? How does it work with a standard triple and 11-32 cassette?
Thanks!
fab


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

The long cage is 100mm. Can't comment on the medium, but the long cage is working great so far on my 11/32 and 22/44 combo. Feels like it shifts with more of a snap compared to the previous ones that had a crisper feel. Kind of like snapping your fingers, quick and sharp.

Someone asked about the pinch bolt, its steel.

In regards to a shorter chain with the medium cage, links weigh 2.4 grams, so I would assume maybe 2-3 less links so 5-7 grams less in weight, not much. 

I have never tested a medium vs long cage, so I can't comment which would work better, I just like to stay within the spec that Shimano and Sram have engineered. The way the new unit works the chain it seems to wrap a bit longer, the cage floats more forward then the old one.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Ausable said:


> If the Shadow GS (medium cage) has a 80mm pulley-to-pulley distance, has anyone measured the distance for the long cage version?
> Also, any feedback from medium cage users? How does it work with a standard triple and 11-32 cassette?
> Thanks!
> fab


 I'm using the GS version with a 12-27 Ultegra cassette and triple 22-32-44 front and it is perfect, so I suspect (almost sure) that it wont work with 11-32 cassette, unless you ad some links to the chain...

I agree with Pastajet. The shadow has a snappier feel than the previous M960 and M970 (used them both). The chain has more tension and it stays more stable on rough terrain! I'm very happy with the change! (used a M960 rapid rise).


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*medium + 11-32 - perfect!*



Ausable said:


> If the Shadow GS (medium cage) has a 80mm pulley-to-pulley distance, has anyone measured the distance for the long cage version?
> Also, any feedback from medium cage users? How does it work with a standard triple and 11-32 cassette?
> Thanks!
> fab


i would never install a long cage derailleur on my bikes - never! too much probability for the longer cage to get caught on the trails...and just too ugly.

the shadow with medium cage works great on 22/32/44 and a 11-32. i use it on my winterbike at the moment. i can't tell about a difference in action when compared to a RD-M950 model (an almost new one). i guess the differences guys tell about comes from the change of a well used to a brandnew derailleur rather than the change in design. at least i don't think there' was much changed in performance coming from an old model XTR derailleur (ca. 1998, but got it new last year)

you might need the long cage with a 34 cassette but even then i wouldn't want to have a longer cage. looks ugly, is not needed and has the risk of getting cauht on the trails. I also run the medium cage with my 11-34 titanium cassettes and couln't detect any problem. so for me the long cage derailleurs are all but useless. i don't run gears where much chain needs to be tensioned like 22-11 or so the better tensioning capabilities of the longer cage are not needed.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

Too bad no US distributors seem to have the GS yet. When will QBP get these ders?


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

If you have a look at the latest posts on this thred http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=205890&page=2, it will be clear that -IF the chain leght is correct- it's not possible to snap a derailleur by cross shifting in the big ring/big cog. 
The only drawback will be a slacker chain in certain (and seldomly used) granny gear combos, i.e. small ring/small cog. 
Of course if you have a short cage and you size the chain not to have any slack in the small/small combo, then you have to be very careful when you are in the big ring!!
I really think I'll choose the medium cage, the long cage is REALLY long -
More than looks, I am worried of rock/roots damage, especially considering that the carbon fiber is not the most resilient of materials
fab


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Ausable said:


> If you have a look at the latest posts on this thred http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=205890&page=2, it will be clear that -IF the chain leght is correct- it's not possible to snap a derailleur by cross shifting in the big ring/big cog.
> The only drawback will be a slacker chain in certain (and seldomly used) granny gear combos, i.e. small ring/small cog.
> Of course if you have a short cage and you size the chain not to have any slack in the small/small combo, then you have to be very careful when you are in the big ring!!
> I really think I'll choose the medium cage, the long cage is REALLY long -
> ...


I have not had any issues so far with damage from hitting rocks and I do it all the time. One of the reasons I wanted the Shadow was cause I always hit that cable pinch bolt on the older models and over time it would loosen up. Got tired of the cable popping out or getting lose on some long steep climb.

In regards to Nino's statement "i would never install a long cage derailleur on my bikes - never! too much probability for the longer cage to get caught on the trails...and just too ugly.", say what, been riding 2 decades on mtb bikes and never had an issue with the dérailleur getting caught, yes it hits stuff but never caused a problem, as far as ugly, how would 3/4 inch longer cage make a gorgeous dérailleur look ugly? 

Lets see 20mm lower is 3/4 inches. I hit my pedals a ton more then the dérailleur. To each their own, I wanted to stay within the specs and nothing more.

So far no probs with the dérailleur.:thumbsup:


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## Tricone (Apr 21, 2007)

Well I have ridden with a medium cage XTR shadow derailluer for 2 months now with a 12-34 cassette and 22-44 chainring spread. So far no problems although I am very careful to stay out of the big-big combo. Only once in the heat of a race did I just about change into this by accident. So far I am very happy with my setup.


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## notenoughtime (Sep 7, 2004)

elephant said:


> Too bad no US distributors seem to have the GS yet. When will QBP get these ders?


They show pretty good stock, 30 and 50+ on these guys.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

He he he...I'm replacing my XO R Mech FOR one of those fandangled XTR R Mechs...:thumbsup: SOoooo soon, but not yet.



Batas said:


> I don't know how you can have it off your bike... I know I couldn't!
> 
> Ride it and tell us how you like it, I'm in the process of choosing one of those or XO...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Sim2u said:


> He he he...I'm replacing my XO R Mech FOR one of those fandangled XTR R Mechs...:thumbsup: SOoooo soon, but not yet.


 Already bought a Shadow GS.:thumbsup:


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Tricone, so i'm assuming with what you've said, carefully staying out of the big-big combo that you are using DCLs?


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

notenoughtime said:


> They show pretty good stock, 30 and 50+ on these guys.


Last week the number was 0. Guess I better order now.

Thanks.


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## Tricone (Apr 21, 2007)

Onie said:


> Tricone, so i'm assuming with what you've said, carefully staying out of the big-big combo that you are using DCLs?


Correct - how did you work that out? I am using them with some old XT dual controls. It took me a few rides to readjust my shifting as the control was reversed from what I was used too. Although I am now OK I am planning to upgrade my shifters to XTR triggers as I dont like the DC system with the shadows low normal(?) setup as much as my previous. 
I'm not sure if this will cause any other issues?


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks to the Shimano blokes...my XTR Shadow rear mech is here. Pics later.



Batas said:


> Already bought a Shadow GS.:thumbsup:


Sometime later:


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Sonny said:


> selfmade carbon pulleys,
> alum pulley screws,
> M6 alum cable screw.


 Those pulley bolts don't have that tiny clip to prevent them to get out if they unscrew... Did you use something to kind of "glue" them?


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Is there any resource to buy the main bolt to the frame in ALLUMINUM?

maybe shimano don't know we usually change it for aluminum not only for saving weight, but also because in case of accident we prefer to rip just that bolt, and not breaking such expensive derrailleur


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm pretty sure it's Aluminum , not steel...I'll have to test it with a magnet


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The bolt is steel on the XT shadow and on the standard XTR RD.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I've just received my new XTR M972 GS,
and with a magnet I've discovered weight can be huge reduced:
the 3 big pivots bolts are steel
even the frame tension bolt and pulley bolts are steel
even the spring is steel

so I hope that soon titanium/alu bolts kit are available by some store

the first one in doing it will sell a lot of them...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

STS said:


> I've just received my new XTR M972 GS,
> and with a magnet I've discovered weight can be huge reduced:
> the 3 big pivots bolts are steel
> even the frame tension bolt and pulley bolts are steel
> ...


 I already have alu pulley bolts to replace the original... But I'm a bit reluctant... Because they don't have that groove for that tiny washer that keeps the bolt in place if it unscrews...


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## Baulz (Sep 16, 2005)

Batas said:


> I already have alu pulley bolts to replace the original... But I'm a bit reluctant... Because they don't have that groove for that tiny washer that keeps the bolt in place if it unscrews...


Most derailleurs have been like that for years.

I had a bolt come loose once 12 years ago.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I've just changed the pulley bolts and frame gap bolt (from a 98 XTR) for aluminium, and now weight is 177g
just a bit of loctite bolt-fix and you don't need the groove

But hope someone make/sell titanium/alu bolts for the 3 main big pivots bolts
in that case I think weight will reduce to around 170g

I will not change pulley as I've found the XTR OEM are the best working ones always

I've read somewhere that the spring is titanium, but not sure because my magnet is a litle big


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

One more steel bolt is the cable retainer one
but as it is 6mm diam. instead of the 5mm standard, I need to buy a new one


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## 4212darren (Nov 15, 2005)

Batas said:


> I already have alu pulley bolts to replace the original... But I'm a bit reluctant... Because they don't have that groove for that tiny washer that keeps the bolt in place if it unscrews...


Use some Blue loctite.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

4212darren said:


> Use some Blue loctite.


 Blue Loctite, got it. Thanks!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Clean all the threads (the bolt and the tapped hole) with rubbing alcohol before applying.


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## Datalogger (Jul 5, 2008)

Well it has been quite awhile, how is everyones' Shadow derailleurs holding up? Any issues?


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

So far, so good this past summer/fall. I did read where some had issues with them coming apart but I've not had a single problem. I just swapped out my 11-34 XTR for a 12-27 DA but weather got to us before I could get more than just one ride in with it. Just need the winter to pass in a hurry!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I put about 1000 kms on my. No problems.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Mine is still going strong. It has been bashed and crashed on and still works fine.


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## iClique (Oct 7, 2008)

Just figured I'd add a pic of mine to the thread...


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## Datalogger (Jul 5, 2008)

Yup, that's definitely an XTR Shadow. Lol.

Good to hear everyones' XTR RD is holding up!


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

mine is also holding well in my scott ransom after 7 months

only once the main bolt to the frame got loose

does anybody know if there is already any titanium bolt kit for the main big bolts?


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## lucatosolini (Dec 2, 2006)

and with a 12-34 cassette and xt cranck modified with 27 and 42 on the middle
it will be better a gs or sgs version?


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

lucatosolini said:


> and with a 12-34 cassette and xt cranck modified with 27 and 42 on the middle
> it will be better a gs or sgs version?


Welcome to MTBR

Post this in the Drive Train forum.

You will need long cage, but just to make sure, still post in the drivetrain forum...its a few up from here in alphabetical order.


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