# F that noise I quit!



## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I hereby solemnly swear that I will henceforth exclusively ride mountain bikes and sell my road bike. My third road ride this year and I almost get hit by some close passing asshat. I literally pissed my chamois and then sat on the side of the road shaking for about 15 minutes. I'm done. Dirt only where all I have to worry about is my skill and not some drunk/distracted idiot. OK Im going for a beer to decompress and to make a kick ass ebay listing. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't ride on the road for that very reason. Even without distracted dickheds, it's dangerous. I think the equivalent level of danger in the woods would be having Volkswagon-sized boulders rolling along the trail at 60 mph as you rode.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

I held on to being a roadie for a while after I decided I hated playing human frogger. There are 2 charity events every year that are very dear to me because they support causes that have heavily impacted my family. So I try to support/give back. I finally caved and sold my road bike last fall and haven't looked back or missed it in the slightest way. I'll just volunteer to work the pits at said events, or maybe set up a work bench at one of the SAG stops and do light mechanical work.


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

Once my daughter was born I suddenly felt less invincible. I decided not to ride road because to me the risk versus reward was too high. Potentially dying for some exercise just wasn't worth it. Plus mountain biking is more fun IMO. 

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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Don't let the door hit the back of your camel toe on the way out! The world is a dangerous place, no matter where you are.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Gasp4Air said:


> I don't ride on the road for that very reason. Even without distracted dickheds, it's dangerous. I think the equivalent level of danger in the woods would be having Volkswagon-sized boulders rolling along the trail at 60 mph as you rode.


Or... some a-hat on a 30 kilo e-Bike, doing 25mph uphill!! 

Sent from my kltedv using Tapatalk


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

bigkat273 said:


> I hereby solemnly swear that I will henceforth exclusively ride mountain bikes and sell my road bike...


You've made the right decision.


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## fog (Jan 14, 2005)

Yea, road riding seems to be getting more and more dangerous. I have several friends who ride 10,000 miles per year and they are saying in is no longer "if I get hit by a car" but "when am I going to get hit by a car"!!!

From my experience, I ride 3.5 miles to where I can get a trail from home, and I seem to be buzzes a lot more. It was especially bad during the winter months and maybe, I repeat maybe getting better, but I am not sure.

Not sure what I am going to do. I have eye issues that have me on the bike path, hopefully it will get better.

Good luck everyone!
Wayne


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Already been hit by a car. Twice (three times if you count some d-bag opening their car door into me without looking). I no longer ride on the road either.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Have been riding road bikes for 40+ years, not quitting any time soon. Do what you think is right for you, there's no shame in preservation of the species. What size is the road bike you're selling?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Don't let the door hit the back of your camel toe on the way out! The world is a dangerous place, no matter where you are.


And I accept that fact but if I can improve my chances of seeing my kids grow up then that's the course of action I will pursue.

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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I saw this post right before I left but Im lucky I have quite a few rail trails so I have about 3/4 miles of traffic when I do the route I did today. For me I kind of have to do this as is not easy for me to get to the trails often, but I understand the OP there are some aholes out there.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

I ride road sparingly. With a pack and usually stay in the mid or front of pack. 

I think the amount of people texting and driving has made road riding a bike more dangerous than it ever has been. 

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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

No replacement for road for legs and lungs, but I swear wholeheartedly road riding is so much more dangerous than mountain biking. 

Had a number of incidents in my family, as noted in another thread a few days ago.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm never leaving my house again.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Quitter



I dont ride on the road, those are for cars.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

You get hurt on the dirt, you die on the pavement.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bigkat273 said:


> And I accept that fact but if I can improve my chances of seeing my kids grow up then that's the course of action I will pursue.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Oh, you have kids? Ok!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I split my road miles worry between getting hit and going to jail for knocking someone's jaw loose. Ahhh the sweet tranquility of a bike ride.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

It's bs that it's a problem. I just got a road bike last year because I have alot of paved "rail trail". As well as city across the river has gone nuts on making it cyclist friendly (lanes, massively widened sidewalks where they can).

Also being in a rural area it's much easier. But still asshats on cell phones.

First thing is having a decent lighting set up (even during the day), no close calls one what road I actually ride on since doing it.

Secondly is one side of the river has made having your face in your phone while driving a serious offense now. State bicycle groups were major advocates for that (but throwing tantrums over a law that requires bicycles to use lights after sunset at the vary least, that has stalled).

Some road riding issues are rider induced (poor clothing choices, no lights or reflective anything except maybe a strip on a jersey) but major issue is cell phones above all else days.

I got a road bike just for "something different" since I have all these paved paths and $60+ a tire MTB tires (or worse, fat bike tires) I got tired of replacing them due to miles being done while trails are closed.

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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

^^^You're lucky...and I didn't say I wouldn't ride a road bike, just won't ride on the road due to the craptastic drivers in a college town.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

noapathy said:


> ^^^You're lucky...and I didn't say I wouldn't ride a road bike, just won't ride on the road due to the craptastic drivers in a college town.


And in today's world of texting and internet browsing while driving it's ten fold worse than back when they just read books and put their makeup on while driving. ut:

Just today I was in a college town and pulled up to a college girl at a light. She was focused on her texting. I looked in my mirror and noticed we were the only two at the light. On purpose I sat there when the light turned green to see how long it would be until she noticed. Obviously many go by movement of the car next to them to go. She sat through the entire green light and then when it turned yellow she finally noticed and took off, gas pedal to the floor. Scary distracted drivers these days.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I hear ya. Anyone want to trade your drivers for the ones here in MA? Year round commuter here. I like my mirror and blinky lights 24/7. I also have a fair amount of bike paths to use as I get close to Boston. Head on swivel, be safe.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Don't let the door hit the back of your camel toe on the way out! The world is a dangerous place, no matter where you are.


"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Mountain Cycle Shawn again".


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

bigkat273 said:


> I hereby solemnly swear that I will henceforth exclusively ride mountain bikes and sell my road bike. My third road ride this year and I almost get hit by some close passing asshat. I literally pissed my chamois and then sat on the side of the road shaking for about 15 minutes. I'm done. Dirt only where all I have to worry about is my skill and not some drunk/distracted idiot. OK Im going for a beer to decompress and to make a kick ass ebay listing.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Sucks. 
I never got the road bike bug but always wondered what it would be like to throw my self on a 19# bike and experience what it was like. Probably best never did.
Many areas or towns (I'm guessing) are trying to be or promote being bike friendly and even here in Co Springs, it seems a dangerous endeavor. 
**I know "bike friendly" has customarily been about traffic systems, lane designation, signage and routing but I think the time has come where focus needs to be more to patrol and punitive consequences for distracted drivers or raging motorists.

It's kind of sad to feel sure I'd like the alternate type of riding for fitness and variation in bicycling only to realize that I just can't imagine feeling safe enough to enjoy it. Is this why the gravel bikes are getting popular - Riders finding a compromise by seeking roads less trafficked ?


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

D Bone said:


> You get hurt on the dirt, you die on the pavement.


Yeah. 
Felt that way a long time now probably going back to mini-bikes and motorcycles as I grew up riding in the woods of Northern Michigan. 
Lots of things can happen on the roads and it isn't always a-holes or maniacs. Anyone can have a lapse in judgement, drop their coffee or make a simple error.

On the trails, it's mostly on you.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I was driving one of my commuter routes (that I almost never use) just yesterday, imagining what it would've been like to be on my bicycle at that time (5:30pm). I decided that route should only be attempted very early in the morning, or only on the weekends. Places where the road narrowed, and the number of distracted drivers was positively terrifying.
I ride a motorcycle and have for a long time. I am used to riding in a way that takes up space and maintains an escape route in case of an emergency. On a bicycle, on the road, it is just too easy to get boxed in, blind-sided, side-swiped... and with a fraction of 1 HP there's not much you can do except ride with your head on a swivel. Some roads are just not for bicycles, regardless of whether or not bicycles are allowed there. It would be nice if we had more bike lanes.

-F


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

bachman1961 said:


> ...what it would be like to throw my self on a 19# bike...


19? Shoot, that's a heavy beast of a road bike.
Try 13-14 lb screaming down a hill at 55 mph +.....


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I haven't thrown my leg over my road bike (which I LOVE, BTW) in well over a year. My Bro-in-Law was killed while training for a charity ride in Hawaii and it's been real hard to feel confident on the road now. I'm not sure I'm done, but I have no idea when I'll get back on it. 

It's still the best base-building you can do, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And in today's world of texting and internet browsing while driving it's ten fold worse than back when they just read books and put their makeup on while driving. ut:
> 
> Just today I was in a college town and pulled up to a college girl at a light. She was focused on her texting. I looked in my mirror and noticed we were the only two at the light. On purpose I sat there when the light turned green to see how long it would be until she noticed. Obviously many go by movement of the car next to them to go. She sat through the entire green light and then when it turned yellow she finally noticed and took off, gas pedal to the floor. Scary distracted drivers these days.


Can't stand that sh*T being behind a douchewaffle on a phone at a green light.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

DethWshBkr said:


> 19? Shoot, that's a heavy beast of a road bike.
> Try 13-14 lb screaming down a hill at 55 mph +.....


Holy crap! That does it. Ain't no way I'm getting on one a them things.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I try to stick to the less-traveled rural roads, but not always possible. So far, so good.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And in today's world of texting and internet browsing while driving it's ten fold worse than back when they just read books and put their makeup on while driving. ut:
> 
> Just today I was in a college town and pulled up to a college girl at a light. She was focused on her texting. I looked in my mirror and noticed we were the only two at the light. On purpose I sat there when the light turned green to see how long it would be until she noticed. Obviously many go by movement of the car next to them to go. She sat through the entire green light and then when it turned yellow she finally noticed and took off, gas pedal to the floor. Scary distracted drivers these days.


DJ, don't forget about those people who take pictures while they are driving.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Yup, I'm out too. My road bike hasn't left it's hook on the wall in years. Too many idiots not paying attention on the roads. It's rare that I drive anywhere without seeing somebody drift into the bike lane or off the shoulder because they're looking at their phone.

True Temper steel with Henry James investment cast lugs, built by Jerry Duran, with Shimano 600/Duraace junk, 55cm if anyone is interested.


.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

I am lucky to live near an area with 100+ mi of rail-to-trails (metro east near stl). There are very few street crossinsg and many tunnels/bridges. I definitely would not ride the roads in STL unless its a closed course event. 

Alternatively, rural gravel (grinder) rides are really starting to become popular in these parts. And by rural I mean you may only see a couple cars in a 60 mi ride (and very few rest stops/convenience stores). I think think a gravel grinder / cross bike may be one of my next bicycles.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

It is well-documented here as to my feelings about the road. I used to ride my motorcycle on the road here in Tucson, but no more. That was becoming a game of dodge the idiot out to kill me, every single ride. No fun at all.
I have always felt the same about riding bicycles on the road. I have not liked it since I first threw a leg over a crossbar about 55 years ago. I would maybe not mind so much if there were blacktop tracks without motor traffic, just for a fitness thing, but if there's dirt around, why bother? My legs and lungs do just fine without blacktop. I've been clipped by cars or trucks a couple of times just riding the short distance up the road near my house, so I do that only when I really, really have to.
Bicycling for me has always been an adventure in the making, and noisy, stinking cars and trucks are just not a part of that adventure.

Don't let anyone make you feel bad about a very wise decision bigkat!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> prj71 said:
> 
> 
> > I ride road sparingly. With a pack and usually stay in the mid or front of pack.
> ...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

not just cell phones. A friends of mine spent the past several months doing interviews for this article that just got published.

KALAMAZOO | Bicycling

I don't do "road rides" per se. I have a strong preference for greenway paths, and there are quite a few where I live. I will use the roads, but stick to the quietest ones I can find to get where I want to go. I can hit a greenway path less than a mile from my driveway. That path connects me to a wider network that will eventually stretch from OH to IL. Maybe those neighboring states will connect to it. OH, particularly, has a lot of long distance greenway trails.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

bachman1961 said:


> On the trails, it's mostly on you.


And that's just it isnt it? On the road, you can do everything right, do your best to mitigate every risk and still end up dead because of somebody else's poor skills or decision making.

Aside from unexpected equipment failure, or being eaten by a mountain lion, the risks I take off-road are 100% on me. And let's just say I trust my skills and judgement a hell of a lot more than 100% of the people I encounter driving their cars on the road.

Despite having been heavily involved in road racing for well over a decade, I have only done 2 training rides on the road in the last 3 years or so. I still regularly commute to work on the road, but I've got about the safest route imaginable with a mix of lightly traveled back roads and bike paths.

Honestly, the real reason I have mostly hung up the road bike is that it finally hit me that mountain biking is a hell of a lot more fun. I would say that I still "enjoy" road riding, but it doesn't make me giggle like a little kid like the MTB does.

For me, the risks of doing a lot of training miles on the road outweigh the reward. Oddly enough, since I've mostly hung up the road bike, I've shifted my MTB riding focus more towards DH/Freeride end of the spectrum. Even riding black and double black diamond rated trails at places like Whistler, I feel my risk of life changing injury or death is lower that it is riding on the road.

And, as a father of 4 kids, I don't have any serious concerns taking my kids to the DH park. They are of the age where they also are riding their bikes on the road to sports practices jobs etc... and quite frankly, that scares the crap out of me.

I can only think of 2 mtb riders who have in my state who have died while riding mtb (one at Whistler, one at the local freeride park), but I know of half a dozen riders killed on the roads in the last decade around our town of ~60 thousand people. And this is literally, one of the most bike friendly areas in the country.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

twd953 said:


> And that's just it isnt it? On the road, you can do everything right, do your best to mitigate every risk and still end up dead because of somebody else's poor skills or decision making.
> 
> Aside from unexpected equipment failure, or being eaten by a mountain lion, the risks I take off-road are 100% on me. And let's just say I trust my skills and judgement a hell of a lot more than 100% of the people I encounter driving their cars on the road.
> 
> ...


Done a lot of perusing safety related things and stats when I returned to the motorcycle as a 'retread' in 2005.

The comment about safely riding bikes on the road or safety concerns cannot be summed up like this; *It's bs that it's a problem.*.

Good gosh !

But I"ll take that on a bit later. It's too nice out right now.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

RAKC Ind said:


> Also being in a rural area it's much easier. But still asshats on cell phones.
> 
> First thing is having a decent lighting set up (even during the day), no close calls one what road I actually ride on since doing it.


There is a lot you can do to make yourself safer and more visible on the road, but sadly, that isn't enough in many cases.

After close to 20 years of regular bike commuting on the roads, I have gotten to the point, where I can predict the stupid $h!t most drivers will do before they even know they are going to do it. Some of it is like clockwork. I could probably make some money on youtube videos calling out drivers BS before they even do it. "Right hook in 3....2....1....there it is!"

But, the one that scares me the most is being clipped from behind on a higher speed road. Closest call I ever had was on a fairly low traffic rural road, wearing bright colored clothing and running a bright flashing tail light. Sun had just dipped below the top of a mountain, so it was basically still daylight out (no cars using headlights) but the shadow of the mountain meant no sun in drivers eyes and that my tail light would really stand out.

2 cars passed me from behind, and second @$$hat driver going about 50 drifted over and clipped my elbow with their mirror (I was going about 25). Driver was head down, not even looking at the road. I managed to keep it on 2 wheels. The driver got the crap scared out of them as they heard the impact of my elbow on the mirror. The driver slammed on the brakes, fishtailed a little, then regained control. I could see the drivers eyes huge as saucers as their head popped up and looked in the rear view mirror to see what they had hit. Driver kept the brakes on, slowed, and thought about stopping, then put it to the floor and sped off, before I could get a licence.

So, basically a hit and run. Driver drifts 6 inches further right, and I'm probably dead.

Nothing more I could have done. When riding roads like this I stay farther out in the lane (about 1/3 of the way) to make myself more visible as cars approach from behind, and to force drivers to move left around me. As they get nearer and start to move out and around, I swing back to as far right as I can safely do to give myself as much separation as possible. Usually works like a charm since most drivers will move left, and before they get annoyed at me being in the lane, I move far right. Exactly what I did in this instance, and it worked perfectly as the first driver moved left and went around, but second driver wasn't watching the road at all and was hugging the right side of the lane.

This incident occurred about 2 miles (same road) from where one of my wife's co-workers was killed on her bike the same road by a hit and run drunk driver. That incident was similar in that was a "hit from behind" and the rider had lights on, and the rider was in a signed and striped bike lane.

So, yeah, do absolutely everything you can to ride safe, choose safe, routes, and be visible, but sadly, there is no silver bullet that can protect you in all instances.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Harold said:


> not just cell phones. A friends of mine spent the past several months doing interviews for this article that just got published.
> 
> KALAMAZOO | Bicycling
> 
> I don't do "road rides" per se. I have a strong preference for greenway paths, and there are quite a few where I live. I will use the roads, but stick to the quietest ones I can find to get where I want to go. I can hit a greenway path less than a mile from my driveway. That path connects me to a wider network that will eventually stretch from OH to IL. Maybe those neighboring states will connect to it. OH, particularly, has a lot of long distance greenway trails.


Tragic! I remember this being on national news.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

^^Yes, that is a really rough read.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I was following that when it first happened, my heart sank. Right in the midst of a local women doing a charity ride on a straight open road be hit and killed by a teenage girl on her cell phone. Then a friend posted about his friend being put in the hospital by some asshat on a residential road.

And this was a year after my best friend since school, was like my sister, was driving to work (nurse, single mom of 3) and a fracking teenage boy was on his phone and crossed the center line on a 2 lane road. Both dead at the scene.

I know this sounds harsh but being in a car and impaired/distracted should suffer the same legal consequences if you injure or kill someone as it would if you did it with your own hands.

Hit and kill a cyclist (or anyone for that matter), get the death penalty. Minors should serve no less than 5 yrs in prison.

System is too soft, take a life you loose yours. No excuse for being drunk, on your phone, whatever the case.

Cell phone companies should be held responsible as well. Smart phones have the components already needed to register speed (you get a warning with Pokemon go, we let the kids play in the car) so phones should go to hands free voice calls only.

No reason not to be hands free anyway, almost all vehicles made in the last decade have either Bluetooth or the plug on the radio for hands free. Even out 07 Chevy colbalt did.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## SkolinIN (Feb 16, 2017)

judging by the amount of people who drive straight thru the middle of our local roundabouts taking out shrubs, light posts etc. there might be some distracted folks on the road. Road when I have to trails otherwise - or low traffic gravel.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

prj71 said:


> I ride road sparingly. With a pack and usually stay in the mid or front of pack.
> 
> I think the amount of people texting and driving has made road riding a bike more dangerous than it ever has been.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Texting drivers come close to hitting my truck on nearly a daily basis. I've seen them bounce of guardrails, hit landscaping islands, and rear-end other cars. Just wait until one them plows into a group of school kids waiting for the bus.

No way in hell that I'm going to be around them on a bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

We have a new law in CA where you fone has to be attached to something other than your hand, and I don't get it a frkn blue tooth is $15.00 that last for years. So far when I'm out and about the only people with a phone in their dash are UBER drivers, people don't get it, or simply don't want to.

Never mind the yellers, throwers, and dudes in trucks that think it's fun to smoke people out, or accelerate right next to a cyclist... . Ah.... our new society...


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## swampboy62 (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm very reluctant to ride on roads with any real traffic flow. I've woke up once laying in a pool of blood in the street, and it's given me a real fear of being hit from behind.

I'll ride around town on the sidewalks sometimes, where all you have to watch for is people turning into/out of driveways over top of you. But the only actual riding ON the road that I'll do is when I follow the rail trail out of town and turn off onto one of the farm roads where I might see one car an hour. 

And really, when I hear that car coming up from behind I'll look over my shoulder at them, and usually what I think is 'They don't see me." And then I pull off the road, stop and turn to watch them approach. When they're past I resume riding. Too cautious - maybe, but I've survived a lot of recreation related injuries, and at the age of 54 I don't want any more.

But I am really lucky since here in NE OH we have a large and growing network of rail trails. And unlike many of the other riders on the bike forums, I rarely have to worry about crowding on the trails. Most of the people I see on the trail are within 1 mile of a trailhead - after that it's almost empty pavement. Getting those miles regularly keeps my legs strong for the seemingly rare times then the singletrack around here isn't too wet to ride.

Keep safe, whatever you choose to do.

Steve Z


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

twd953 said:


> There is a lot you can do to make yourself safer and more visible on the road, but sadly, that isn't enough in many cases.
> 
> After close to 20 years of regular bike commuting on the roads, I have gotten to the point, where I can predict the stupid $h!t most drivers will do before they even know they are going to do it. Some of it is like clockwork. I could probably make some money on youtube videos calling out drivers BS before they even do it. "Right hook in 3....2....1....there it is!"
> 
> ...


Wow, glad you were able to stay upright after being clipped and very sorry to hear about the wife's co-worker. 

I like your approach with maneuvering/visibility. I try to be a courteous cyclist while still putting myself in as little danger as possible. I am not a road rider per se, but commute regularly. I got t-boned at a 4 way stop last year by a guy in a truck. I was wearing a reflective vest and lights but he just didn't see me. I clearly had the right of way and several witnesses confirmed that.

That being said, the guy was a cyclist himself and just didn't see me for whatever reason. Distracted I guess, but definitely not a cell phone issue. He apologized profusely, paid for my rear wheel rebuild, glasses, and helmet (which split in half), and follow up medical. He is actually a biker himself, which just goes to show it's not always about drivers being assholes, sometimes bikes are just hard to see. I don't fault the guy, and he actually threw my bike in his truck and gave me a ride because I couldn't get in touch with my wife, ha.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Guys, use one of those dorky looking helmet mounted mirrors. Then you'll be able to see the front end of the car that ends your life.


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

That is why I quit road biking. I was in some very close calls. Big truck driving fast, passing close, but it was the draft that nearly made me crash hard. There was a few other ones but that is the one that made me ride mountain bikes. I will take my chances with trees and rocks over cars any day. 

The only place I would road bike is in Japan. The drivers there are so courteous and controlled. Extremely rare to see stupid, careless, or reckless drivers.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Road biking is very boring and uninspiring-- I don't need any other reasons not to do it.

In the rare cases where I've had to perform the necessary evil of riding my mountain bike on the road-- I've been nearly killed several times. And it's only getting worse. No thanks.


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## scoobie (Dec 25, 2011)

Harold said:


> not just cell phones. A friends of mine spent the past several months doing interviews for this article that just got published.
> 
> KALAMAZOO | Bicycling
> 
> I don't do "road rides" per se. I have a strong preference for greenway paths, and there are quite a few where I live. I will use the roads, but stick to the quietest ones I can find to get where I want to go. I can hit a greenway path less than a mile from my driveway. That path connects me to a wider network that will eventually stretch from OH to IL. Maybe those neighboring states will connect to it. OH, particularly, has a lot of long distance greenway trails.


I nearly came to tears reading that article. All that loss.

I do ride road, albeit my bike is 520# and I'm decked out in Hi-Vis. Cannot stand being passed by traffic, especially when they're going 30-40mph faster. Maybe one day I'll have to give up the motorcycle, too. Life on two wheels is so much better than four.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

If there were no cars, I would ride the road.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Road riding is awesome, I prefer mountain biking but road is a refreshing change for me. I'm sorry about bigkat's experience and don't blame anyone who doesn't feel it's worth the risk or just doesn't like it, it is dangerous for sure.


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## orvil (Feb 19, 2016)

I live in a rural area and used to love riding that rural black top for miles. Then a cyclist got hit from behind and killed just a couple miles from my home about 2 years ago. That caused me to re-evaluate riding on those rural roads and I realized that since there are so few road cyclists where I live drivers aren't really expecting to run up on them. The cyclist that was killed had been clipped by a mirror just 6 months prior and spent 2 weeks in the hospital. Now my road bike has been converted into a gravel bike for riding the gravel roads on the Wheeler Wildlife Refuge next to my neighborhood. I have a quarter mile ride on pavement to access miles of gravel roads. I do miss the solitude of road riding but I no longer have to fear being hit from behind.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I'm actually mostly a roadie nowadays due to time constraints but prefer mt biking...For a good 15-18 mile mtb ride I have to load the truck, drive 20min-1hr depending on which trails I want to ride, ride 2 hrs, then drive back. 
For the road I load up the bike, drive 5min-20min (depending on the ride) and jump in the A group...In 2hrs I can get in a hilly 30-38 miles or a real hilly 26 mile route.

When I raced road I'd ride alone for training but now I prefer being in a group, safety in numbers, but even that is no guarantee and people still make sketchy passes...Blind curves/hills, etc.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

We ride road to get to our local trails, because we can and it's better than loading the bikes and gear and driving. The various trail heads are between 4 and 10km from our home. Our roads are very rolling so we take every precaution. We wear reflectors, have blinky lights , ride single file, don't wear earbuds, listen and watch for approaching vehicle...etc. There are signs to "Share the road". The majority of the drivers slow down, respect our space... but I always remember the the ones that don't. I believe the ones that drive irresponsibly are distracted. And no amount of signage is going to change them so we have to ride defensively.

View attachment 1135507










Soon we will be complaining about this kind of buzzing


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Road riding is awesome, I prefer mountain biking but road is a refreshing change for me. I'm sorry about bigkat's experience and don't blame anyone who doesn't feel it's worth the risk or just doesn't like it, it is dangerous for sure.


Same sentiments here. I'm relatively new to road riding and really enjoy it. I need to get some daytime running lights though.

Is it a matter of time? is it inevitable? I don't believe so. Driving to and from work everyday can get me injured or worse too, if playing the odds is the variable.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I still love the road. I'm sure I'll get back on before too long. My road bike feels like an extension of me.

For those of us who still love the road, what do you ride? I'm on a Dura-Ace equipped, '08 Ridley Excalibur. The only thing is that it's not new enough for disc brakes (has never been an issue, though).


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

chuckha62 said:


> For those of us who still love the road, what do you ride? I'm on a Durace equipped, '08 Ridley Excalibur.


C'fail CAAD something w/105. It's old enough to have caliper brakes and no electronic shifting.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

chuckha62 said:


> For those of us who still love the road, what do you ride? I'm on a Dura-Ace equipped, '08 Ridley Excalibur. The only thing is that it's not new enough for disc brakes (has never been an issue, though).


1987 Gitane Professional, Reynolds 531P. Spread the rear triangle to fit an Ultegra 10 spd hub. Ultegra 6700 FD/RD, Ultegra 6700 brakes and Dura-Ace 7600 brake/shift levers. Not as light as new carbon would be but there's just something about lugged steel that appeals to me.


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## tradera (Apr 16, 2013)

C-Dale Synapse carbon w/Dura-ace. Its seen a fair share of gravel and single track too. I love stitching trails with a good road ride.


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## 7daysaweek (May 7, 2008)

chuckha62 said:


> For those of us who still love the road, what do you ride?


I ride a Trek Boone on the road. Disc brakes have saved me several times from crashes involving other riders on group rides. Had some close calls on the road and have a friend that lost a leg in an incident with a truck. Definitely don't blame people for being nervous about road riding.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

cyclelicious said:


> We ride road to get to our local trails, because we can and it's better than loading the bikes and gear and driving. The various trail heads are between 4 and 10km from our home. Our roads are very rolling so we take every precaution. We wear reflectors, have blinky lights , ride single file, don't wear earbuds, listen and watch for approaching vehicle...etc. There are signs to "Share the road". The majority of the drivers slow down, respect our space... but I always remember the the ones that don't. I believe the ones that drive irresponsibly are distracted. And no amount of signage is going to change them so we have to ride defensively.


Cyclelicious, I think you're the only person on this forum who could talk about the dangers distracted drivers without a shred of attitude (e.g. "Those eff'n a-holes"). You don't seem polyannaish, so it I think it must be that you just never to speak ill of anyone. (Even eff'n a-holes).


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Crankout said:


> Is it a matter of time? is it inevitable?


Yes, it is. I would challenge you to find anyone who's been riding road riding for more than five years who doesn't have a story to tell.

I've been hit by people (both not paying attention, and on purpose), and I've had friends killed. It's not a matter of it, but when. The only question is if you'll be killed or permanently disfigured/disabled.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

I'm another dirtbag who survived two collisions with cars. Gravel or MTB only now....


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

_CJ said:


> Yes, it is. I would challenge you to find anyone who's been riding road riding for more than five years who doesn't have a story to tell.


I suppose I've got a few stories I could tell about my time spent on the road but thankfully none of them killed or maimed me terribly. I've had a few fairly close calls involving cars but the only times I've ever hurt myself or wrecked were totally my fault.


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## milliesand (Jun 29, 2015)

Today I almost had a head on with a kid (10 year old?), riding on a bike path while looking at his blinky-blank phone, completely oblivious to anybody else. 

And they'll be driving in just a few years.


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## AMac4108 (Oct 8, 2008)

I really don't enjoy road riding. Besides a few group rides each year, it's just something that I do when the trails are closed to get my mileage in. I've had enough close calls that lately I've been content just spinning on the trainer for an hour or two watching Netflix.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Even the TDF champ isn't immune from the psychos.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tour-france-champion-froome-hit-run-incident-094654384.html


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Curveball said:


> Even the TDF champ isn't immune from the psychos.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/tour-france-champion-froome-hit-run-incident-094654384.html


That is crazy. Scarponi from Astana was recently killed by a hit and run during a practice run as well.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jcd46 said:


> That is crazy. Scarponi from Astana was recently killed by a hit and run during a practice run as well.


So much for Europe being so bike-friendly. I guess the cell phone have taken over their brains too.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Road riding is awesome, I prefer mountain biking but road is a refreshing change for me. I'm sorry about bigkat's experience and don't blame anyone who doesn't feel it's worth the risk or just doesn't like it, it is dangerous for sure.


It's been nice knowing you. You'll be missed dearly.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

We lost our best singletrack to development recently, and I'd rather just ride out of my house than drive 10 miles to a 2 mile loop. It's actually quite fun linking MUPs and such. I find ways to get around on the back streets and thru office/industrial areas with little traffic. 

I'm on a 29" AM HT with 2.4" tires, lol, so chunky roads ain't no big deal.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I do actually ride about a half-mile of quiet suburban streets with speed bumps to my local trail network. The speed bumps do the trick of keeping the cars slower and the drivers alert.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Of course it's up to each individual to decide for themselves whether road cycling is worth the risk. I enjoy it quite a bit as training and as an alternative to trail riding and I've ridden both for over 20 years. I ride pretty slowly, usually alone or with a friend or two. I seek out the quiet roads and just enjoy the sensation of self-propulsion, the air and sun and passing landscape. Kind of a zen thing. Also, I have to drive to mountain bike, but I can road ride right out my door so it's a convenience. I know this area well, and I know when and where to ride-there's times I'll ride 15-20 minutes and not see a single car. There are a lot of quiet country roads around here. Area drivers are generally pretty careful around cyclists-they're used to seeing us and they keep an eye out. The few rude or dangerous people I see are way outnumbered by friendly patient folks, though as Cyclelicious observes, it's the jerks you tend to remember. I actually did start to concentrate overmuch on the jerks a few years ago, and it was affecting my enjoyment of riding pavement. I made a conscious decision to ignore the A-holes (as much as I could) and wave to those that were decent and I found that I was waving a LOT more than I was ignoring jerks. And getting a fair number of waves back. Once people seem to realize there's a person on the bike, it makes a difference. When I do feel endangered by a car, I try to remind myself that statistically, I'm no more likely to be in an accident than if I were in a motor vehicle. It's just that you feel more endangered and exposed on a bike, and when someone does, say a close pass, you really feel the power and danger that a motor vehicle represents. Some folks are able to handle that sensation of vulnerability more than others, I suppose. I'm not a particularly brave person, but I'm cautious and careful and I to ride in as courteous and safe a way as possible. It helps. Riding is my thing-I won't give it up because it's risky.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

People are more angry than ever. I don't know if it is the 24 hour "bad news" cycle, our political divide, our uncertain future, too many people in the world or our social media narcissistic ways??

People don't want to share the roadways, the trails with other users. Look at the rants just on these forums.

I ride our local roads for exercise, commuting and to get to our local trails. I hate to drive my vehicle unless I have to. When I ride I assume I am invisible and that anything bigger than me has right of way. I have a mirror on my bikes and I am ready to bail at any moment. I wave to drivers when they give me a clear berth and bite my tongue (or finger!) when they don't.

Smartphones, the rising epidemic of opiod use, the legalization of recreational drugs and the widespread rise of micro breweries and wineries mean that you just don't know who is driving with a full deck and who is not!

My pet peeve is that every cycle event and festival is wrapped around some type of alcoholic drink. All this does is put more drunks out on the road and gives acceptance to drinking and riding and drinking and driving. We have too many problem drinkers out there now without cycling contributing to the issue. I put on cycling events for years and never used alcohol as a draw. I guess that is why we never attracted huge crowds! 
I at the request of a local mountain bike club and in conjunction with REI put on a bikepacking seminar at a brewery. I was excited to do it but in retrospect I would never do it again. People seemed more interested in drinking and eating pretzels vs. actually bikepacking. Why not a coffee shop or just a conference room?? Oh ya cause no one would come!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

_CJ said:


> Yes, it is. I would challenge you to find anyone who's been riding road riding for more than five years who doesn't have a story to tell.
> 
> I've been hit by people (both not paying attention, and on purpose), and I've had friends killed. It's not a matter of it, but when. The only question is if you'll be killed or permanently disfigured/disabled.


I guess time will tell. I've been using the roads to access trails for at least 15 or more years, and recently increased my time on roads via a road bike. Sure, there have been a few close calls, but nothing remarkable. I've also had friends endure some significant injury on MTB's.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

My first non kid bike was a road bike way back in the early 90's. Didn't know how boring it was until I got my first MTB a year after. Never went back to riding in gutters since. 

Still don't get why people like ridding in gutters, breathing exhaust and stressing out about getting hit by cars, but to each their own I guess.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

singletrackmack said:


> My first non kid bike was a road bike way back in the early 90's. Didn't know how boring it was until I got my first MTB a year after. Never went back to riding in gutters since.
> 
> Still don't get why people like ridding in gutters, breathing exhaust and stressing out about getting hit by cars, but to each their own I guess.


Because not all road riding is as you describe.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> Because not all road riding is as you describe.


How so? I live in Lake Tahoe and see road bikers everywhere. They drive for hours stuck on the highway in traffic to get here and then go spend more time ridding on the side of the road in the gutters with barely enough room for cars to go by on the left with hundred+ foot drops to certain death on the right. All the while, a few hundred feet above them, is some of the most beautiful scenic trails that can be found with views that blow away anything you can see from the highway, piece and quite and fresh exhaust free air.

However, there are bears up there. Is it that road bikers are just really scarred of bears so that is why they take their chances with cars, breath exhaust and ride in gutters made of what is basically tar and oil? I'll take my chances with the bears.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I used to live in Tahoe, and I wouldn't have done much road biking up there either. The eastern Sierras however, Douglas and Washoe counties to be specific, would most certainly be epic on a road bike, IIRC.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

richwolf said:


> People are more angry than ever. I don't know if it is the 24 hour "bad news" cycle, our political divide, our uncertain future, too many people in the world or our social media narcissistic ways??
> 
> People don't want to share the roadways, the trails with other users. Look at the rants just on these forums.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I think you are pretty much spot on with your assessment. In New Mexico, the DOT/NM Dept of Safety estimates that a full 50% of all drivers would fail a drug/alcohol test between 12 noon Friday and 12 noon Monday--every single week of the year! Of course, these stats don't include distracted driving (cellular phone use being the number 1). There is a fairly significant disrespect for road cyclists in this state.

On top of that, we are a very poor state, so the conditions of our roads are kind of awful with lots of broken, wavy, frost-heaved chip-sealed road surfaces, if that is your kind of thing.

The good news is, with 1.2M people in the state (700,000+ living in ABQ, almost 100,000 in Las Cruces, and about 65,000 retirees in Santa Fe), we have super low population density. This means that while the streets can be mean, the single track is empty and pristine!

I ride my single-speed road bike to my shop and home (about 6 miles round trip). Each and every single time I do, it feels like the craziest thing I have ever done!

Watch yourselves out there!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

singletrackmack said:


> Still don't get why people like ridding in gutters, breathing exhaust and stressing out about getting hit by cars, but to each their own I guess.


If one enjoys urban riding, then you may be onto something.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

beastmaster said:


> Unfortunately, I think you are pretty much spot on with your assessment. In New Mexico, the DOT/NM Dept of Safety estimates that a full 50% of all drivers would fail a drug/alcohol test between 12 noon Friday and 12 noon Monday--every single week of the year! Of course, these stats don't include distracted driving (cellular phone use being the number 1). There is a fairly significant disrespect for road cyclists in this state.
> 
> On top of that, we are a very poor state, so the conditions of our roads are kind of awful with lots of broken, wavy, frost-heaved chip-sealed road surfaces, if that is your kind of thing.
> 
> ...


I noticed that when I did the Tour Divide in 2012 that New Mexico had the most beer cans per mile by the side of the roads and dirt roads of any state. They also had the filthiest bathrooms. But with that said it was one of my favorite states to ride through.


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## M-Train (Jan 12, 2008)

singletrackmack said:


> How so? I live in Lake Tahoe and see road bikers everywhere. They drive for hours stuck on the highway in traffic to get here and then go spend more time ridding on the side of the road in the gutters with barely enough room for cars to go by on the left with hundred+ foot drops to certain death on the right. All the while, a few hundred feet above them, is some of the most beautiful scenic trails that can be found with views that blow away anything you can see from the highway, piece and quite and fresh exhaust free air.
> 
> However, there are bears up there. Is it that road bikers are just really scarred of bears so that is why they take their chances with cars, breath exhaust and ride in gutters made of what is basically tar and oil? I'll take my chances with the bears.


Because not everywhere is Lake Tahoe. I ride to work daily on county roads with wide shoulders, mixed with bike paths and residential streets. It is not as you describe. I guess my point is that not everywhere is like where you are at this moment.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

singletrackmack said:


> How so? I live in Lake Tahoe and see road bikers everywhere. They drive for hours stuck on the highway in traffic to get here and then go spend more time ridding on the side of the road in the gutters with barely enough room for cars to go by on the left with hundred+ foot drops to certain death on the right. All the while, a few hundred feet above them, is some of the most beautiful scenic trails that can be found with views that blow away anything you can see from the highway, piece and quite and fresh exhaust free air.
> 
> However, there are bears up there. Is it that road bikers are just really scarred of bears so that is why they take their chances with cars, breath exhaust and ride in gutters made of what is basically tar and oil? I'll take my chances with the bears.


You win, everywhere else is just like Tahoe so you may as well stay there.


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## sinjun (Jul 18, 2007)

I live in the Midwest, if I didn't ride a road bike I wouldn't get the amount of riding in that I need. We get too much rain it's been two weeks since I was able to get out on an mtb trail. Our trials close if their too wet and I'm not a fan of riding muddy trails and eroding them even more.


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## PrincipalRider (Jun 24, 2005)

I live in Phoenix and I live about 2 miles from the entrance to South Mountain. I like to ride my road bike one day a month up to the TV towers at the top. It is called "Silent Sunday" and no cars are allowed on road to the top. I can take a canal path and sidewalks the two miles there so, I generally avoid too much danger. Other than that though, I won't ride on the road. I can take canal paths all the way to the trailheads on my MTB that are only three miles away so I'll stick with that.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> You win, everywhere else is just like Tahoe so you may as well stay there.


Nice! I like winning. And being able to hit trails right outside my front door is why I moved there. Winning!


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

M-Train said:


> Because not everywhere is Lake Tahoe. I ride to work daily on county roads with wide shoulders, mixed with bike paths and residential streets. It is not as you describe. I guess my point is that not everywhere is like where you are at this moment.


So your roads are not made with tar and oil? Interesting.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

singletrackmack said:


> Nice! I like winning. And being able to hit trails right outside my front door is why I moved there. Winning!


Yeah it sounds like paradise with all the cars and gutters and fumes from exhaust. Oh and all the out of town Roadies. That's what it really is isn't it? You feel inferior to the Roadies.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

i choose to stay away from those things when I want to go for a ride. But ultimately it's the fact that road biking is so boring because it takes no skill to do it other than balancing on a bike. To me, sports that don't require skill are just not fun, then add all the bull **** from cars and asshole drivers...


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

singletrackmack said:


> So your roads are not made with tar and oil? Interesting.


That's not what was said and you know it. I'm all about dirt over pavement, but commute daily. If you have something to say spell out your argument. Don't make a straw man, it smacks of elitism.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

singletrackmack said:


> i choose to stay away from those things when I want to go for a ride. But ultimately it's the fact that road biking is so boring because it takes no skill to do it other than balancing on a bike. To me, sports that don't require skill are just not fun, then add all the bull **** from cars and asshole drivers...


Corner at high speed on skinny high pressure tires much?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Road riding doesn't take skill and is boring? 

Tell me that again after you try counter-steering into sweepers at 40-50mph. Tell me that again when you feel the bikes attitude change in those same turns depending on where your inside knee is in relation to the top-tube. Or tell me that when you have spent some time riding road at more than a basic pace in rolling or even mountainous terrain and you can settle in to some pain and intervals, and push a gear and speed going UP, sustained. 

Riding road will make you a MUCH better mountain biker. There is zero valid argument against that. And riding mountain just the same will make you a MUCH better road rider. Those of you that swear off riding road for wheel choice reasons are really shooting yourselves in the foot. I wish you'd open your minds and give it a chance.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

And Singletrack, I'm saying this directly to you now...Back here on the east we've got some pretty good climbs and descents. Hitting 45 isn't too hard. Most of the stuff close to me though means you've got to sprint into that descent to get there. But when I lived out near you, Nevada City to be exact, the descents (and climbs) were long...like as in miles long. Hitting 50 on a 4 mile descent wasn't hard, and it was all about the counter steering. The main problem was catching up with cars. This would happen often heading down 49 towards the Yuba river. 

I was always up at the lake snowboarding and never rode on the road there, but there is so much good road around you that it boggles the mind that you can't find anything positive in it. Yeah the trails are badass, but so is the road. Get away from circling the lake and put in a 50 miler.


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## jspharmd (Jan 11, 2005)

Reading these types of posts make me happy to live in an underappreciated area for cycling. Nobody writes about the great trails or quiet roads where I live (even though we have both). I've gone on rides all over this country and I've noticed something. The places everyone says are the best for cycling, are where the drivers are the worst. Take for example Boulder, CO. I've never seen more aggressive drivers (aggressive toward cyclists). I've also never seen more cyclists do stupid things to piss off drivers. 

Where I live, a cyclist is an anomaly. Drivers almost always change lanes completely before they pass me. They are polite and friendly, unlike all of the great cycling locales. 

I will continue to ride on the road and the trails, and I will be thankful that my roads and trails are relatively unknown to the world.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Riding road will make you a MUCH better mountain biker. There is zero valid argument against that.


I don't know how you can become a much better mountain biker if you're in either the hospital or the morgue.

Hyperbole aside, I do agree with you that road riding will make you a better biker. My real problem isn't with road riding per se, but with the nutcase drivers who appear to feel that killing and maiming cyclists is just fine and dandy.

Cyclist Scarponi dies in van collision - CNN.com


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

jspharmd said:


> Reading these types of posts make me happy to live in an underappreciated area for cycling. Nobody writes about the great trails or quiet roads where I live (even though we have both). I've gone on rides all over this country and I've noticed something. The places everyone says are the best for cycling, are where the drivers are the worst. Take for example Boulder, CO. I've never seen more aggressive drivers (aggressive toward cyclists). I've also never seen more cyclists do stupid things to piss off drivers.
> 
> Where I live, a cyclist is an anomaly. Drivers almost always change lanes completely before they pass me. They are polite and friendly, unlike all of the great cycling locales.
> 
> I will continue to ride on the road and the trails, and I will be thankful that my roads and trails are relatively unknown to the world.


Good to hear. I've always stated that the majority of motorists I encounter are respectful of my space.


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## jspharmd (Jan 11, 2005)

Crankout said:


> Good to hear. I've always stated that the majority of motorists I encounter are respectful of my space.


In actuality, the vast majority of motorist are respectful. I'm sure that the percentage of motorists that pass cyclist and create an unsafe situation is very low. I'm guessing </=1%, think about counting each car that passes you and then count the number of cars that endangered your life while passing. The issue raised here, is that even going from 0.05% to 1% can be very serious if that situation is significantly dangerous.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

_CJ said:


> Yes, it is. I would challenge you to find anyone who's been riding road riding for more than five years who doesn't have a story to tell.
> 
> I've been hit by people (both not paying attention, and on purpose), and I've had friends killed. It's not a matter of it, but when. The only question is if you'll be killed or permanently disfigured/disabled.


 Seems kind of a crappy attitude? MA Rider here, 14 years commuting, 2,000 or so miles every year, no car/ bike contact, knock wood. I run LOTS of lights 24/7 use a mirror and wear bright clothes. Head on a swivel ,be proactive and be prepared for idiots, every day.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

singletrackmack said:


> How so? I live in Lake Tahoe and see road bikers everywhere. They drive for hours stuck on the highway in traffic to get here and then go spend more time ridding on the side of the road in the gutters with barely enough room for cars to go by on the left with hundred+ foot drops to certain death on the right. All the while, a few hundred feet above them, is some of the most beautiful scenic trails that can be found with views that blow away anything you can see from the highway, piece and quite and fresh exhaust free air.
> 
> However, there are bears up there. Is it that road bikers are just really scarred of bears so that is why they take their chances with cars, breath exhaust and ride in gutters made of what is basically tar and oil? I'll take my chances with the bears.


 Maybe look beyond your front door? Suburbs , North of Boston MA rider here. We call them bike lanes, bike paths, bike advocacy that works and lots of bikers on the roads. Start there. And road shoulders, parkways with slower speed limits, no trucks or busses allowed and 5' from the fog line to the curb.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

jspharmd said:


> In actuality, the vast majority of motorist are respectful. I'm sure that the percentage of motorists that pass cyclist and create an unsafe situation is very low. I'm guessing </=1%, think about counting each car that passes you and then count the number of cars that endangered your life while passing. The issue raised here, is that even going from 0.05% to 1% can be very serious if that situation is significantly dangerous.


For sure. but I enjoy the road too much to worry too much about the low odds.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I wouldn't say I've quit road biking, but I rarely do it nowadays. I have had plenty of close calls and too many unpleasant interactions for road riding to be much fun anymore. I cyclo-commuted about 19 miles each way for many years, with only occasional issues. But, I have had friends put in the ditch while riding, and a friend of a friend was killed while riding on the road. I will still road ride on occasion, but I have zero passion for it. Plenty of mountain bike and cyclocross style rides close to my home and work. I do have to ride about 2 miles of busy roads to get to trails at work, but I manage that without too much stress/danger. Having kids has very much changed my approach to riding amongst cagers...


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't road bike much for recreation, but I do 3-4k miles a year for transportation and very rarely have any issues and 0 injuries thus far (unless you count a scraped knee when I slipped on black ice).

I don't think there is any good statistics on the subject, but I wonder if biking is really more dangerous than driving sometimes. Isn't the traffic death toll like 30,000-40,000 people a year in the US? Hard to compare since there are so many more cars than bikes, but how often do people worry about getting behind the wheel?


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> I hereby solemnly swear that I will henceforth exclusively ride mountain bikes and sell my road bike. My third road ride this year and I almost get hit by some close passing asshat. I literally pissed my chamois and then sat on the side of the road shaking for about 15 minutes. I'm done. Dirt only where all I have to worry about is my skill and not some drunk/distracted idiot. OK Im going for a beer to decompress and to make a kick ass ebay listing.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


I hate to make light of the situation, but if you strap an AR-15 to your back, I GUARANTEE you'll get all the safe zone you'll ever need while road riding.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

^getting a good chuckle out of this


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

SCR818 said:


> I hate to make light of the situation, but if you strap an AR-15 to your back, I GUARANTEE you'll get all the safe zone you'll ever need while road riding.


I probably wouldn't be able to get my ride in due to everyone wanting to know the make and if I had done any aftermarket upgrades. Lots of gun aficionados (including myself) around here. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> I probably wouldn't be able to get my ride in due to everyone wanting to know the make and if I had done any aftermarket upgrades. Lots of gun aficionados (including myself) around here.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Then pedal faster...


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Maybe all of this is why gravel grinding has become one of the hot buttons in cycling!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Simplemind said:


> Maybe all of this is why gravel grinding has become one of the hot buttons in cycling!


I wonder. It really depends on the location of where one rides, it appears. I have access to countless miles of rural roads, and that's safer than more populated areas.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Simplemind said:


> Maybe all of this is why gravel grinding has become one of the hot buttons in cycling!


I have endless miles of gated logging roads here.

But,... boring. If I'm going to load my bike in my truck, then I'll be heading to singletrack.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

How does this happen? It seems the guy making a left turn had plenty of time to see the cyclist.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

leeboh said:


> I run LOTS of lights 24/7 use a mirror and wear bright clothes. Head on a swivel ,be proactive and be prepared for idiots, every day.


The guy texting his buddy or checking his facebook status doesn't see all of that.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> How does this happen? It seems the guy making a left turn had plenty of time to see the cyclist.


Good question. Maybe looked down at his/her phone, glanced up and saw no large vehicles and went? Either that or just completely mistimed the speed of the bike but that seems almost impossible, almost seems like they waited for the cyclist which leads me to lean toward the looked away theory.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> Good question. Maybe looked down at his/her phone, glanced up and saw no large vehicles and went? Either that or just completely mistimed the speed of the bike but that seems almost impossible, almost seems like they waited for the cyclist which leads me to lean toward the looked away theory.


That's exactly what I thought, it seemed intentional. "How many points for a cyclist"


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## notso (Jan 22, 2015)

A friend of mine that I hadn't seen in several years, died last night after being hit by a car while road riding. I'm kind of over it too....


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

https://www.motorsport.com/wsbk/news/hayden-909249/


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Had a rider, here in VA killed by a car last week -

VSP: Cyclist Killed in Tazewell County on Way to Charlottesville - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather

and this today!

Motorcycle racer Nicky Hayden dies from injuries sustained in bicycle crash | FOX Sports

Keep riding the road, it is only a matter of time.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

notso said:


> A friend of mine that I hadn't seen in several years, died last night after being hit by a car while road riding. I'm kind of over it too....


Condolences on the loss of your friend.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't even know why there is even a discussion about this, the statistics for cyclist accidents on the road in any developed country where motor traffic is prevalent are depressing. there are thousands of accidents involving bicycles, admittedly not all the fault of the motor vehicle driver, but far too many for my liking. That is the same reason why I do not ride a motorbike on the road here in Tucson any more: people are driving ever more distracted, they are often old and frail and incapable of reacting properly, or even of seeing well, or they are simply ill-trained and do not look for 2 wheeled traffic. I have had incidents too numerous to mention on my MC. If you HAVE to ride a bicycle on the road then I am sorry for you and wish you luck, but if not, then take to the hills!


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## notso (Jan 22, 2015)

chazpat said:


> Condolences on the loss of your friend.


The friend that I was referring to is Nicky Hayden. I first met him and his family at the races in 1992. In '93, I worked for Southwest Motorsports Nicky was a development rider for them at I believe 12/13 years old. Great kid. Great rider. From a great family.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

jcd46 said:


> That's exactly what I thought, it seemed intentional. "How many points for a cyclist"


The timing looked intentional but the reaction of the driver afterwards did not. The bottom line is, bikers are small, hard to see (even when wearing brighter clothing), and drivers are easily distracted. I'm amazed how many times people don't see me even in a safety vest, bright green helmet, and lights front and back. Accidents between two cars happen all the time due to distracted drivers. But when it happens to a biker, the consequences can be much more dire.

That looked very bad! Surprised the cyclist got up so quickly, hope they are okay.

When I got hit last year the only good thing is that my lower back felt better than it had in years. I don't need no stinkin' chiropractor, I will just have my wife t-bone me with the truck once in a while.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

notso said:


> The friend that I was referring to is Nicky Hayden. I first met him and his family at the races in 1992. In '93, I worked for Southwest Motorsports Nicky was a development rider for them at I believe 12/13 years old. Great kid. Great rider. From a great family.


That is a major bummer, my condolences.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> How does this happen? It seems the guy making a left turn had plenty of time to see the cyclist.


Classic invisible gorilla in the room syndrome.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

This has been on my mind a lot lately as well. My wife and I both ride road, and we do love it. I got her into mountain biking this year, and I am more and more nervous about road riding. We've already had 3 cyclists hit this year in my area, one killed. I've always been of the mind that living in fear is a death of its own, but man, I'm really starting to weigh the risk/reward of road riding. There's lots of other ways I can have fun, take calculated risks, and NOT get hit by some a-hat in a car texting about dinner.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

^I agree with this. And the irony is of how a mc racer died on a road bike, speculatively due to the same issue, where drivers can look right through a mororcycle/rider and not see them. They aren't doing it on purpose. They just are fixated on cars. 

It just sucks. Rip Nicky. Scrape elbows and knees in a better place now.


Edit: I was meaning to point to the post by JB, but was a little late on doing it. Not to take away from the post above.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

jcd46 said:


> How does this happen? It seems the guy making a left turn had plenty of time to see the cyclist.


Dude had a full 15 second gap in car traffic.....he he turns at the exact moment the cyclist is there. Ton of time to go before or after.

How does that happen? Multiple choice question:

1. Drivers are incompetent
2. Drivers are trying to kill cyclist
3. Drivers are disctracted
4. Drivers are stupid
5. Drivers are blind
6. All of the above


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

He was trying to hit him. looked intentional. I would have kicked some ass if that would have been me. If I wasn't dead of course.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I've seen the debate on the issue(s) in that video. Some asswipes believe the cyclist was in the wrong due to his "lane position". The cyclist was in the exact position he should have been in. He was out of the traffic lane and was obviously not turning right.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I managed a solid road ride last night and made it back alive! Yeah!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Crankout said:


> I managed a solid road ride last night and made it back alive! Yeah!


Me too! Zombie apocalypse be damned.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I think whether or not road riding is enjoyable can also depend on the conditions. A bike lane, nice scenery and sparse traffic vs. no shoulder, road debris, and heavy traffic are 2 very different experiences.


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## dplevy81 (Mar 17, 2017)

I love my road bike, and I love riding on pavement, just not in the road. It's too dangerous and i've had too many close calls myself. I stick to greenways and what not 95% of the time i'm on it.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> How does this happen? It seems the guy making a left turn had plenty of time to see the cyclist.


All I can say is my God those Russians are tough!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> He was trying to hit him. looked intentional. I would have kicked some ass if that would have been me. If I wasn't dead of course.


No, the driver was not. They were most likely not paying attention for a few seconds after the first few cars passed and got distracted by something like a phone, their radio etc. they then looked up to see no cars and looked 'right through' the cyclist, because they were not looking for a cyclist, they were merely looking for cars.

If they meant to do it, the wouldn't have stopped immediately and ran back to the rider with their hands on their head.

It happens to motorcycles every single day. The driver isn't intentionally trying to kill the rider, although this is a real result many times.


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## MyCol (Oct 3, 2012)

My road bike is great. Looks even better on my trainer in the dining room


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

His shadow is pointing more or less toward the car as it turns-maybe the driver was blinded? It's distressingly easy to overlook a ped/bike/motorcycle in dazzle or behind your side mirror, A-pillar, etc.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

That exact same thing happened to me, 'cept I was passing thru an intersection in my truck.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

life behind bars said:


> Me too! Zombie apocalypse be damned.


Nice.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

This thread is depressing.

The video where the driver turned into the bicyclist, although it looks timed and intensional, obviously wasn't by how the driver reacted after the fact. Today's distracted drivers and the high pressures of driving in congested traffic and tight schedules and small hard to see bicycles, not the safest place to be out there. I have two sisters that ride the road daily, I can't even forward stories like these without backlash. It is what it is. You choose your passions and hope luck is on your side with anything in life.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Cornfield said:


> That exact same thing happened to me, 'cept I was passing thru an intersection in my truck.
> 
> View attachment 1138978


Well the obvious issue there was that your taco had no lift...Needed a lift.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Well the obvious issue there was that your taco had no lift...Needed a lift.


After the hit it had the 'Sorry Bro Lean.' You can see how high the right side is. I had Bilsteins all around, no lift.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cornfield said:


> After the hit it had the 'Sorry Bro Lean.' You can see how high the right side is. I had Bilsteins all around, no lift.


I'm surprised this hasn't been moved over here yet.

Shocks and Suspension - Mtbr.com


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> All I can say is my God those Russians are tough!


This is exactly why I gave up road motorcycles and why I'll never ride road bikes either. Most drivers are a combination of bad, distracted, aggressive and blind to various degrees. If I get hurt snowmobiling or mountain biking it's on me and I like it that way.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Cornfield said:


> After the hit it had the 'Sorry Bro Lean.' You can see how high the right side is. I had Bilsteins all around, no lift.


Ugh, that sucks. Was it totaled? Love the 1st gens.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Ugh, that sucks. Was it totaled? Love the 1st gens.


Yeah, but luckily my insurance gave me 6k towards a nicer one, same year with 1/3 the mileage and all the goodies except 4wd.

The point I was trying to make is that it's just not safe out there in a lot places anymore, even with a cage! I know there's roads to ride where there's little risk of being hit. I'm worried about the roadies who "take the lane" on busy roads because it's their right to do so. Just doesn't make sense to me.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> I'm worried about the roadies who "take the lane" on busy roads because it's their right to do so. Just doesn't make sense to me.


I know it seems to be controversial here but taking the lane (when appropriate) is far and away the safest way to travel in city traffic and pretty much any long time daily commuter would agree. Personally I've always felt relatively safe in city traffic compared to most rural roads.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> Yeah, but luckily my insurance gave me 6k towards a nicer one, same year with 1/3 the mileage and all the goodies except 4wd.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that it's just not safe out there in a lot places anymore, even with a cage! I know there's roads to ride where there's little risk of being hit. I'm worried about the roadies who "take the lane" on busy roads because it's their right to do so. Just doesn't make sense to me.


Question  How do you guys handle a lane ending or turning into a right turn, and you are going straight? Don't you take the lane then? or do you use the cross walk? I usually take the lane when there are zero cars near me lol.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> I know it seems to be controversial here but taking the lane (when appropriate) is far and away the safest way to travel in city traffic and pretty much any long time daily commuter would agree. Personally I've always felt relatively safe in city traffic compared to most rural roads.


Yeah, I know it's better than hugging the shoulder and allowing drivers to squeeze by, but I couldn't do it knowing it only takes one distracted person behind the wheel of a large automobile and it's all over, even if you're on the shoulder not taking the lane.



jcd46 said:


> Question  How do you guys handle a lane ending or turning into a right turn, and you are going straight? Don't you take the lane then? or do you use the cross walk? I usually take the lane when there are zero cars near me lol.


It all depends on the particular road and traffic situation. If I do go out for urban rides I'll stop and wait at the crosswalk if there's cars out, like around 5:00 when everyone is getting off work. When there's nobody around it's different. I'm just not going to ride out in the street an expect that everyone will see me.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

My only experience with taking the lane was during our double pace line training rides here in Philly. But that was en masse, and about 50 or so riders. Plus, we were haulin...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

jcd46 said:


> Question  How do you guys handle a lane ending or turning into a right turn, and you are going straight? Don't you take the lane then? or do you use the cross walk? I usually take the lane when there are zero cars near me lol.


If I am picturing what you are asking...where a shoulder becomes the right turning lane...I have always just moved to the line that then is separating the straight traffic and the right turning lane. A quick look behind/down through your arm/torso and to the rear before you merge over to the temporary middle area is all that's ever been necessary. In doing this you are allowing right hand turners the ability to go to your right side and make their turn without you having to cut across their right hand turn at the corner at the last second.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^^^ I do this unless it is really heavy traffic and I am turning left, in which case I go straight across and then hop into the lane going perpendicular and wait for the light to change/for it to be clear to cross. But I rarely ride in much traffic.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^ Thanks guys, ok then I'm doing the proper thing. I guess its always trying to make the safest decision.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Sure thing. In my experience in riding road, riding in the city etc., it has always been a good thing to ride assertively. Some might say aggressively, but it isn't quite that. It's kind of a state of mind where you assume your right to be there...and you ride like it.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Cornfield said:


> Yeah, but luckily my insurance gave me 6k towards a nicer one, same year with 1/3 the mileage and all the goodies except 4wd.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that it's just not safe out there in a lot places anymore, even with a cage! I know there's roads to ride where there's little risk of being hit. I'm worried about the roadies who "take the lane" on busy roads because it's their right to do so. Just doesn't make sense to me.


 Couple o thoughts here. MA rider, same roads, same rights, same rules. And I'm a commuter, not a roadie. The road where I take the lane is signed 20/25 mph. Narrow windy and poor sight lines with bad curves. The rural cow path if you will. No shoulder, 6" to 1' to the right of the white line, you will be in trees or a rock wall. Much safer to ride taking the lane, no room for a car and bike to share the lane. Plenty of options for passing on the straight sections. Taking the lane prevents them trying to pass on blind corners with oncoming traffic. Sometimes. YRMV. Be safe and proactive.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

leeboh said:


> Couple o thoughts here. MA rider, same roads, same rights, same rules. And I'm a commuter, not a roadie. The road where I take the lane is signed 20/25 mph. Narrow windy and poor sight lines with bad curves. The rural cow path if you will. No shoulder, 6" to 1' to the right of the white line, you will be in trees or a rock wall. Much safer to ride taking the lane, no room for a car and bike to share the lane. Plenty of options for passing on the straight sections. Taking the lane prevents them trying to pass on blind corners with oncoming traffic. Sometimes. YRMV. Be safe and proactive.


Totally agree. Also you pretty much have to take a lane when making left turns.

I think you're way more visible and therefore less likely to get hit when in the middle of the lane compared to on the shoulder, though as mentioned it's situational. I always wave and/or try to make eye contact whenever possible and always give a friendly wave to any car passing by that I may have held up momentarily, and usually I get a friendly wave back.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Totally agree. Also you pretty much have to take a lane when making left turns.
> 
> I think you're way more visible and therefore less likely to get hit when in the middle of the lane compared to on the shoulder, though as mentioned it's situational. I always wave and/or try to make eye contact whenever possible and always give a friendly wave to any car passing by that I may have held up momentarily, and usually I get a friendly wave back.


 ^^^ This one section of road that I commute on is about 1 mile long and leads up to my street. Sometimes I get the " nice" person refusing to pass when I have waved them on and there is a clear line of sight. Once there are 4- 5 cars backed up, I'll pull over in a driveway to let them go by.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

It is all about environment. I take care to ride roads that are low traffic and tight enough that people can't really go 40+ without really paying attention. Does this guarantee that someone in a sports car won't be ripping around a corner and take me out? Nope. But nothing is guaranteed not to kill you. I basically didn't ride my road bike at my old house because of the traffic. The new house is much better and I can generally avoid seeing too many cars. Gravel riding was huge for me last year and it truly is more relaxing. I still get to explore but it is more resilient to bad road conditions and I get much further off the beaten path. I pretty much won't load up the mountain bike unless I have 2+ free hours on a weekday or 3 hrs on a weekend. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

leeboh said:


> Couple o thoughts here. MA rider, same roads, same rights, same rules. And I'm a commuter, not a roadie. The road where I take the lane is signed 20/25 mph. Narrow windy and poor sight lines with bad curves. The rural cow path if you will. No shoulder, 6" to 1' to the right of the white line, you will be in trees or a rock wall. Much safer to ride taking the lane, no room for a car and bike to share the lane. Plenty of options for passing on the straight sections. Taking the lane prevents them trying to pass on blind corners with oncoming traffic. Sometimes. YRMV. Be safe and proactive.


I remember reading this response from you a while back, can't remember the thread topic, but I have read those words before, I swear! 

Just like almost any other discussion here; we are usually speaking from our individual experiences which vary greatly. Trail etiquette, ebikes, ear buds, portable speakers, CCW, dropper posts, flats vs baggies, etc... All mean different things to each of us.

Just keep pedaling and be safe out there! :thumbsup:


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

In the news: Cyclist shot while riding in New Orleans | VeloNews.com


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

jspharmd said:


> I've gone on rides all over this country and I've noticed something. The places everyone says are the best for cycling, are where the drivers are the worst. Take for example Boulder, CO. I've never seen more aggressive drivers (aggressive toward cyclists). I've also never seen more cyclists do stupid things to piss off drivers.


I think that you are on to something here. Since they passed the law in favor of bikes in Connecticut-that is when bikers started riding two abreast in the road.

For some reason I cannot explain, I have a GPS mount on all of my bikes. It was giving me trouble, I kept having to hit 'stay on', I looked up and almost crashed to a jogger.

I have a new GPS now, it lights up(I keep it on mute) every time the speed limit changes, curves ahead, school zones etc.. It caught my attention the other day and I almost drove into some stopped traffic. It does not take much to get distracted.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> This thread is depressing.
> 
> The video where the driver turned into the bicyclist, although it looks timed and intensional, obviously wasn't by how the driver reacted after the fact. Today's distracted drivers and the high pressures of driving in congested traffic and tight schedules and small hard to see bicycles, not the safest place to be out there.


A driver's brain is conditioned by habit and experience to look for cars, not bikes, and the driver is focused on the area of the road he expects to see cars coming from at driving speeds. In the video, the driver is probably not focusing on the area where the bike is traveling, because he is focusing down the road at oncoming traffic. The brain filters out the bike like white noise, the same as the brain would filter out a cow wandering in a pasture nearby or a bird flying through the air. The driver might "see" the biker, but his brain does not register the biker as something he needs to pay attention to. The same thing happens with motorcycles.

I will admit, I sometimes get really annoyed with having to share the road with road bikers. That being said, I do try to make an effort to look out for bikes, both motorcycles and bicycles, because the last thing I want to do is hurt somebody. But road bikers need to be very aware that a driver can appear to be looking right at you, yet not really see you. It happens all the time, unfortunately.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

MTB requires Zen-like focus at all times. Road requires Zen-like ESP - to "predict" who is gonna mow you down next...


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I sold my road bike a few weeks ago. I used to ride it a fair bit when I lived in Las Vegas as there was a paved bike path near my house and several other low traffic/low speed routes that I could also ride. I moved to Carson City a few years ago and found that the speed limits on the rural roads were just too high for me to feel comfortable. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that Douglas County, NV would be epic for road riding, but it wasn't for me. All those nice Eastern Sierra roads have speed limits of 55mph (actual speed of the traffic is at least 60-70mph). Tahoe is even more scary as many of the people driving around those roads are too busy staring at the lake to watch out for cyclists. If I want to ride these routes on 2 wheels I now do so on my motorcycle... Drivers still don't see me but at least the traffic isn't whizzing past me going 50mph faster when I have an engine as well. 

The extent of my road riding these days is my 3 mile ride to work (60% paved bike path, 30% bike lane), an occasional leisurely ride downtown on my fixie (bike lanes or neighbourhood streets), or a 2 mile neighbourhood ride to my nearest trailhead on my mtb. I have lights on day and night, a white helmet, and don't use ear buds on the road. I totally sympathise with anyone who quits riding on the road... the risk is so much higher on 2 wheels than 4.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## rockhopper97 (Jul 30, 2014)

my step grandfather got hit by a car recently and broke his ribs on one side....he is in his 80s and with blood thinners and some other meds he takes, he decided it was time to hang up his riding shoes........he gave me his 2013 GT eggressor 3.0 ...I was surprised it didnt have much damage... the other day I saw a kid riding down the street while looking at his phone.... if I need to mess with my phone when driving or on my bike I pull off to the side and stop... not worth my life or someone else


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## ethierjung (May 30, 2017)

I video front and rear, Hi-vis yellow jersey, socks, and bike, strobes etc. Through many experiments, I have found the GoPro Hero's tiny little flashing record light seems to be most visible and keeps them off me more than anything.:madman:


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

I just had my Scott CR1 all carbon stolen... It was covered by my home-owners insurance... lol.. I am not replacing it... Funny how things work out...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Damn, that sucks, sorry.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I'm in an area with great roads/road rides but trails are a little drive for me so I get a majority of my miles on asphalt. I don't mind since I used to race road and enjoy hard group rides but I try to mitigate risk by doing rides in groups, having lights, etc but, if given the choice, I'd be in the trails.


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## Jammor (May 30, 2014)

Two road riders on national park road, lead cyclist gets whacked by car, all caught on video: 
Watch: Driver hits Natchez Trace Parkway bicyclist


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

kpdemello said:


> You've made the right decision.


Hear, Hear!


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## MaxInMn (Aug 24, 2017)

I tried road biking for about a month and I got heckled/harassed 4 times! Wth is people's obsession with cyclists?


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## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

I ride a lot of road, I like it a lot. I do live in an area where traffic is light and I have a lot of options, I have never feared for my life though I do see plenty of stupid drivers. 

I have read through this entire thread and I have this to add. 

Ya'll realize that statistically it's way more dangerous to get in your car than it is to ride a road bike? Why doesn't anyone talk about that?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

can't get right said:


> I ride a lot of road, I like it a lot. I do live in an area where traffic is light and I have a lot of options, I have never feared for my life though I do see plenty of stupid drivers.
> 
> I have read through this entire thread and I have this to add.
> 
> Ya'll realize that statistically it's way more dangerous to get in your car than it is to ride a road bike? Why doesn't anyone talk about that?


My guess is because you have a much higher chance to survive in your car, vs. being on your bike?


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## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

jcd46 said:


> My guess is because you have a much higher chance to survive in your car, vs. being on your bike?


You could not be more wrong.

Odds of dying in a car accident 1 in 84.
Odds of dying on a bike 1 in 4,919









I like my odds on a bike. Look at all the stuff that is waaaaaay more dangerous than bicycles.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I'd like to believe that is true, but I suspect those odds are for the entire population, most of who do not ride a bike on a regular basis. I think the odds of dying on a bike are much larger if you only look at cyclist.

Do you have a link to the article?


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

chazpat said:


> I'd like to believe that is true, but I suspect those odds are for the entire population, most of who do not ride a bike on a regular basis. I think the odds of dying on a bike are much larger if you only look at cyclist.
> 
> Do you have a link to the article?


Well said.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> I'd like to believe that is true, but I suspect those odds are for the entire population, most of who do not ride a bike on a regular basis. I think the odds of dying on a bike are much larger if you only look at cyclist.
> 
> Do you have a link to the article?


I agree, and don't get me wrong, I pretty much have to ride road as my time is limited for trail riding all the time, the good thing is have plenty of rail trail near my house.

In most places the ratio between cars and bikes is a huge! I think looking at just accidents, you have a better chance to survive being in a two ton vehicle, versus a 25lb. bike that is being hit by a 2 ton machine.

I do agree that I could die while chewing gum.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

That's why I don't do road either. Can't be trusting my life with so many crazies on the road.


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## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

chazpat said:


> I'd like to believe that is true, but I suspect those odds are for the entire population, most of who do not ride a bike on a regular basis. I think the odds of dying on a bike are much larger if you only look at cyclist.
> 
> Do you have a link to the article?


What article? Even if the stats are skewed by a whopping 50% the favor still goes to cycling being safer. 
The cycling stats also include the entire population of people that ride bikes; kids, BMX dudes, old people, guys with DUI's, CAT 1 guy all the way to the mentally unstable.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive. What they conceal is vital.


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

can't get right said:


> Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive. What they conceal is vital.


Never peeled off a bikini and found anything that was unexpected ...


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

None o' this, statistically speaking, as 't'were.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

can't get right said:


> What article? Even if the stats are skewed by a whopping 50% the favor still goes to cycling being safer.
> The cycling stats also include the entire population of people that ride bikes; kids, BMX dudes, old people, guys with DUI's, CAT 1 guy all the way to the mentally unstable.
> 
> Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive. What they conceal is vital.


What article as in where did you get the chart.

Sure cycling is safer for the overall population. It is safer than riding a motorcycle according to the chart, but since I very rarely ride a motorcycle but very commonly ride a bicycle, pretty sure my odds of dying from a bicycle accident are much, much greater than my odds of dying in a motorcycle accident. Same thing for bee stings, if you aren't allergic, odds are low, if you are, odds are high, though probably just about everyone gets stung at some point.

Yep, statistics can be tricky.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

can't get right said:


> You could not be more wrong.
> 
> Odds of dying in a car accident 1 in 84.
> Odds of dying on a bike 1 in 4,919
> ...


Is that odds of being killed on a bike while riding on the roads in traffic, or is that an overall number that is essentially useless? Kinda like how getting struck by lightning out of the blue on any given day is way different than on a mountain, during a thunderstorm, in a clearing, on a lightning rod.

I know how many pedestrians and cyclists get killed in my city each year, riding on the road and mixing with autos definitely ups the risk. Not worth it for me.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

That chart doesn't show the odds of dying by being trapped in a major appliance, so it's definitely lacking...


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Is that odds of being killed on a bike while riding on the roads in traffic, or is that an overall number that is essentially useless? Kinda like how getting struck by lightning out of the blue on any given day is way different than on a mountain, during a thunderstorm, in a clearing, on a lightning rod.
> 
> I know how many pedestrians and cyclists get killed in my city each year, riding on the road and mixing with autos definitely ups the risk. Not worth it for me.


Likewise ...

Phoenix isn't friendly to bicyclists, study says


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Cornfield said:


> That chart doesn't show the odds of dying by being trapped in a major appliance, so it's definitely lacking...


I know, my chewing gum scenario wasn't listed either.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> I know, my chewing gum scenario wasn't listed either.


I bet the odds would double, if not triple, if you were walking and chewing gum at the same time.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Cars are dangerous to everyone, peds, cyclists, other drivers. They kill thousands and thousands of people every year! I think it's normal to feel more exposed and endangered on a bicycle than in a car, but I don't think you're any more likely and very possibly are less likely, statistically, to die while doing it. You just have to decide if the fear you feel is specific to the area, a reaction to that exposed sensation, or just due to reading about cyclists being hit and killed or threads like this. And then you choose whether, where and how much to ride, based on your desire to vs. your fear of. I road ride less than I used to but I still get out a few times a week, even if only to ride to work and back. I wouldn't give it up.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

SteveF said:


> Cars are dangerous to everyone, peds, cyclists, other drivers. They kill thousands and thousands of people every year! I think it's normal to feel more exposed and endangered on a bicycle than in a car, but I don't think you're any more likely and very possibly are less likely, statistically, to die while doing it. You just have to decide if the fear you feel is specific to the area, to reaction to that exposed sensation, or just due to reading about cyclists killed or threads like this. And then you can choose whether and how much to ride, based on your desire to vs. your fear of. I road ride less than I used to but I still get out a few times a week, even if only to ride to work and back. I wouldn't give it up.


This is a really good post. I think one thing people have to think about is if they are being conditioned to be in fear. Its easy to happen to anyone with anything, especially with numbers and statistics and media etc in our faces all the time. (People are out to get us, we need protection, this calamity happened down the street, your kids aren't safe, etc.etc.etc.)

It can be hard, but my feeling is taking a step back and looking at this rationally can be of help in gauging whether there is an actual threat, or if the fear machine is getting into everything we do, and poisoning every facet of our lives in some way or another.

No offense meant to anyone that has lost someone on a bike or been hit. I've been hit myself. But it hasn't effected my feelings about riding.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

jochribs said:


> This is a really good post. I think one thing people have to think about is if they are being conditioned to be in fear. Its easy to happen to anyone with anything, especially with numbers and statistics and media etc in our faces all the time. (People are out to get us, we need protection, this calamity happened down the street, your kids aren't safe, etc.etc.etc.)
> 
> It can be hard, but my feeling is taking a step back and looking at this rationally can be of help in gauging whether there is an actual threat, or if the fear machine is getting into everything we do, and poisoning every facet of our lives in some way or another.
> 
> No offense meant to anyone that has lost someone on a bike or been hit. I've been hit myself. But it hasn't effected my feelings about riding.


You are so right! I spend a lot of time outside in the mountains on my own. People are always asking me "aren't you afraid of mountain lions, bears, rattlesnakes, people, weather, injuring yourself, chupacabra, zombies, etc...?!?" No. I'm not. To live your life in fear must be a horrible thing.

I'm still not all that keen on road biking though. Mostly because I prefer peace and quiet, and don't enjoy the noise or smell of traffic.

- Jen


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

mahgnillig said:


> You are so right! I spend a lot of time outside in the mountains on my own. People are always asking me "aren't you afraid of mountain lions, bears, rattlesnakes, people, weather, injuring yourself, chupacabra, zombies, etc...?!?" No. I'm not. To live your life in fear must be a horrible thing.
> 
> I'm still not all that keen on road biking though. Mostly because I prefer peace and quiet, and don't enjoy the noise or smell of traffic.
> 
> - Jen


Absolutely! And hey, some folks just don't like riding road! You being one of them


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## quikcolin (Jul 14, 2011)

It's funny you say this. I've been a MTB rider since I was a kid. 4 years ago I decided to buy a road bike to help me become a faster MTBer. I fell in love with the road bike. So much so that I hung the mountain bike in the garage for almost 2 years. I recently had a baby, and after a handful of near misses by idiotic drivers I've decided that I'm sticking to the trails for now on. The road bike will sit on the trainer in the basement moving forward. I treated myself to a new 2017 Trek Top Fuel 9.8 SL last week! This is something I can do with my son when he's older... I would never allow him on a road bike after so many close calls. Geez, I'm feeling mature... what's going on? #mtbftw


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

singletrackmack said:


> i choose to stay away from those things when I want to go for a ride. But ultimately it's the fact that road biking is so boring because it takes no skill to do it other than balancing on a bike. To me, sports that don't require skill are just not fun, then add all the bull **** from cars and asshole drivers...


Try some group rides with a rider a foot away on all 4 sides at 30mph. Actually don't, because your awesome skills will cause a pileup crash.


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

Road riding feels like the equivalent of running on a treadmill, or watching paint dry. I truly don't understand how people do it. Ive tried it, to make me faster for my MTB riding and racing... but It just downright sucks. I don't currently own a road bike, and definitely don't plan on buying another. I ride to get AWAY from the idiots, not put myself CLOSER to them. People simply don't pay attention in their 5000lb washing machines now-a-days. 


Smart move dude!


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

BigHit-Maniac said:


> Road riding feels like the equivalent of running on a treadmill, or watching paint dry. I truly don't understand how people do it. Ive tried it, to make me faster for my MTB riding and racing... but It just downright sucks.


This was pretty fun.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i bike commuted in san francisco pretty much from when i was twenty nine years old till i turned fifty.

i only had two accidents, one serious and countless near-misses and verbal exchanges with both drivers and cyclists.

now, my job(s) for the past four and a half years are within walking distance and i will only ride pavement to whatever dirt i'm riding.

riding a bicycle in san francisco or any paved road within a hundred miles of its city limits in my opinion is a russian-roulette-style proposition.

to hell with sharing the road with people are just plain nuts, distracted, angry or whacked out of their mind on any number of legal/illegal chemical concoctions or combinations of these things.

oh, and i left out the "ride share" drivers most of whom don't have any idea of where they are without the Siri's guidance. 

yup. never mind this riding on pavement for fun business. i understand it has its benefits. for all i care, ya'll can have your razor-honed fitness and high-speed bike handling skills.

i'm happy with my sanity.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

D Bone said:


> You get hurt on the dirt, you die on the pavement.


tried to give you a bump but...


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

I still ride my road bike and my recumbent, on the MUPS !

We have some pretty nice ones, one is a 7 mile loop In the woods, a county well field, 
Nice park with some good cross country mtb trails.
Very early on some weekends I'll get up at the azz crack of dawn and do 25 miles starting at my house but even that is mostly a paved mup.
I'm usually home before the traffic starts up.

The real thing for me Is the fact that when your on the road your In a canyon full of poison.
Think about it, trees or buildings on both sides of most every road, cars, exhaust, in your face,
You gulping bucket loads of air in this canyon of noise and deadly fumes.

I hate wearing ear plugs as the car tire noise makes my ears ring at rides end.

The tread mill thing,,yeah there Is that, good point...

MTB'ing, fresh air, only the sound of a breeze and rubber gripping, the occasional smack into a tree


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Quentin said:


> This was pretty fun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are damned straight, I bet it was. Where is that by the way?

I think anyone that thinks road is boring doesn't have good climbs that you slay a little better each time, or the descents that you catch up to the cars on. A good handling road bike (or even a cross bike, I just got a new CX10 and it handles like a friggin Ferrari) is never boring when you've got the watts to open it up, or the descents to scare yourself on.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

jochribs said:


> You are damned straight, I bet it was. Where is that by the way?
> 
> I think anyone that thinks road is boring doesn't have good climbs that you slay a little better each time, or the descents that you catch up to the cars on. A good handling road bike (or even a cross bike, I just got a new CX10 and it handles like a friggin Ferrari) is never boring when you've got the watts to open it up, or the descents to scare yourself on.


Dropping from Allegheny Mountain into Seneca Rocks, WV.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## audrey27 (Oct 6, 2017)

D Bone said:


> You get hurt on the dirt, you die on the pavement.


Yes, sad but true.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I just recently got to ride on single track, after riding fire roads and on pavement for years, I have to say, fun is that air time, that flicking up front wheel to go over wet rocks at stupid speeds. 

Being old, no more invincible or immortal, but without kids I don't need to fear death either, just enjoying it like it would be last ride. 

Problem being, when I ride on bike paths or street, now I look for opportunities for air time and general hooligan behavior, riding like road would be single track, I'm so going to end up into trouble from that, but I don't care.

I just enjoy, until I drop. 

There should be standard measurement of boring, something like stimulus per time unit, if it gets low enough it's boring. When riding single track, you get events where you need to move your body so much more than when doing road biking, but surely when you get to keep up speed on road it is fun, just bit different way.

I mean 30mph at single track going over wet roots and rocks just is more than 30mph on pavement, you would need a lot more speed on pavement to get same adrenaline rush. 

Descending 35% grade at stupid speeds without seeing more than 30 feet up front just gives that weird feeling where time slows down, you are separate from your body and you just have to flow, there is nothing better, except doing the same at dark when it pours down.

Now where this trail is where Volkswagen sized boulders come at you, I might wish to have a go of that, sound fun! 

There hardly is spot on body without bruises, but that is part of the sport, getting hit by a car just is not part of the sport.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

After a couple dedicated road riders I know were hit by cars, one seriously that required a whirli-bird ride, I decided it was time to hang up my skinny tires. I don't feel bad at all, the roads around me are narrow, and busy. I didn't feel comfortable riding them anymore. To get to greenways, or roads that were quieter I had to drive 45mins to an hour. The same distance I have to drive for MTB trails. It was an easy decision.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

askibum02 said:


> After a couple dedicated road riders I know were hit by cars, one seriously that required a whirli-bird ride, I decided it was time to hang up my skinny tires. I don't feel bad at all, the roads around me are narrow, and busy. I didn't feel comfortable riding them anymore. To get to greenways, or roads that were quieter I had to drive 45mins to an hour. The same distance I have to drive for MTB trails. It was an easy decision.


One word...GRAVEL!


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## JJ Welks (Jan 15, 2015)

I have to say whenever I see people road biking about the only thought that comes to my mind is "**** that". Not that it doesn't look fun but there's way to many idiots driving out there that I refuse to put my life in someone else's hands like that.


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

I've sort of re-discovered road biking in the last 4 years, and have really enjoyed it to the point where I now ride it (a "gravel" road bike) off road on most of the local trails I used to ride my mountain bike on. Even without suspension, and me being 54 and recovering (hopefully recovered) from a nasty ankle fracture, I find it much more comfortable and enjoyable than my 10 year old FuelEX7 full suspension. I'm fortunate enough to live in the middle of a bunch of low traffic rural roads, so I can go for a long peaceful ride in the redwoods, and then hop on a trail. I run flashing head and tail lights, have a Garmin radar, and wear bright yellow Fred clothing. I find having a camera mounted and clearly visible acts as a deterrent as well.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I would never use flashing light, it is lot harder to estimate speed and distance of flashing light compared to constant light. 

I'm using constant light, really bright constant light back and front, actually often I have two front lights, dim city light as a backup for bright Chinese T6 led. 

Few times I have heard ABS banging on ice behind me, but so far they have managed to stop, there is no shoulder, there are steep short hills and tight turns and it is kind of pitch black often this time of year. 

Some people just don't pay attention, maybe they use f**** book or something while driving, but they don't pay attention, but riding bravely on lane helps, they can't ignore so easily. 

It's same with motorized bike, just take your space, don't ride near right edge of lane and it is actually safer with those too, same with bicycle, however if there is shoulder, then that tactic is not working too well because law is not on your side then.

But those flashing lights are not best idea for moving objects, at least there should be constantly lit lights in addition to those, just think about it, car driver takes split second to look something, then looks something else, again that 1st object, how well is on/off visible object fitting to that scenario? 

Especially in city environment constant light is much safer, imo. 

For stationary large objects slowly blinking light works, but put those to move bike speeds and with bike light type fast flashing, how easy it is to tell exact place, especially in dark where driver focuses only to lights?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

grumpy old biker said:


> I would never use flashing light, it is lot harder to estimate speed and distance of flashing light compared to constant light.
> 
> I'm using constant light, really bright constant light back and front, actually often I have two front lights, dim city light as a backup for bright Chinese T6 led.
> 
> ...


 I run a steady helmet light, flashing and steady on the bar. The flashing is the attention getter. Always. Let's see. Police, ambulance, fire, tow trucks, heavy equipment, construction equipment, all the lights flash. Planes, trains, boats as well.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

leeboh said:


> I run a steady helmet light, flashing and steady on the bar. The flashing is the attention getter. Always. Let's see. Police, ambulance, fire, tow trucks, heavy equipment, construction equipment, all the lights flash. Planes, trains, boats as well.


Which one of those has none steady lights to front and back?

I see a lot of bikes running only flashing lights and at dark that is not much better than having no lights at all, add steady lights and it's completely different story, however flashing light should be reserved for emergency or exception.

I vote for no flashing lights on bikes, unless it is emergency vehicle.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

grumpy old biker said:


> I see a lot of bikes running only flashing lights and at dark that is not much better than having no lights at all


Really? Riders with no lights are practically invisible in many situations. As a driver flashing lights work for me but I agree more is better and I'd add steady lights and reflectors if I were riding at night a lot. To each his own but to me it seems riding with no lights as opposed to only flashing lights is a bit suicidal.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> Really? Riders with no lights are practically invisible in many situations. As a driver flashing lights work for me but I agree more is better and I'd add steady lights and reflectors if I were riding at night a lot. To each his own but to me it seems riding with no lights as opposed to only flashing lights is a bit suicidal.


Both can be, especially in a city, car drivers just take quick peek if they see light, flashing light is not seen as easily as moving object and that makes it dangerous. Definitely should use steady lights in addition.

Also people see bit differently, some see better at dim light, some have better peripheral vision recognization, there are people with migraine, all driving. There are even vision problems and people still drive.

I would think differently about flashing lights if those would be on vest and orange, with 1 second cycle, why they don't make such as that would work so much better.

Two days ago I saw again some riders having only one tiny red light at side of handle bar, not even near center line of bike, but at edge and only one red light facing forwards. Take a quick peek of that in dark and accident is easy to happen.

Of course there is difference if we think about bike going along the traffic on road or coming across from bike path / side walk.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

grumpy old biker said:


> I would never use flashing light, it is lot harder to estimate speed and distance of flashing light compared to constant light.
> 
> I'm using constant light, really bright constant light back and front, actually often I have two front lights, dim city light as a backup for bright Chinese T6 led.
> 
> ...


FWIW, I used to drive a tow truck and I found that when I used the flashing lights, the drivers would focus on the lights, get target fixation, and steer directly towards me. I've seen drivers cross three lanes of freeway towards the lights. I had a lot less close encounters when I stopped using the flashers.

I've seen YouTube videos of cars slamming into police cruisers due to target fixation.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Curveball said:


> FWIW, I used to drive a tow truck and I found that when I used the flashing lights, the drivers would focus on the lights, get target fixation, and steer directly towards me. I've seen drivers cross three lanes of freeway towards the lights. I had a lot less close encounters when I stopped using the flashers.
> 
> I've seen YouTube videos of cars slamming into police cruisers due to target fixation.


That target fixation is kinda hard to understand, but indeed that does happen. I guess some people also steer bike where they turn their heads, which is equally weird, but we are different, some don't have much awareness what is around them, while some don't do so well in social situations, brains just work bit differently for everyone.

I have really hard time to get speed of flashing object and in dark inside a car cyclist with flashing light is kind of on/off visible object to me in some situations.

Some really bright flashing lights are kind of sticking finger to eye, hard to see at all what there is or near the light, with glasses sometimes you have bit of fog or some dirt on glasses and it makes things of course even more difficult, even some glasses are kinda annoying even when clean, 1800 flashing lumens makes it so hard to see even what is at front of your nose.

Surely some other people will have different experience, but on poor light conditions I would not recommend to use only flashing lights, there might be some other equally blind bats as I am.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

You guys have it all wrong:


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

grumpy old biker said:


> Which one of those has none steady lights to front and back?
> 
> I see a lot of bikes running only flashing lights and at dark that is not much better than having no lights at all, add steady lights and it's completely different story, however flashing light should be reserved for emergency or exception.
> 
> I vote for no flashing lights on bikes, unless it is emergency vehicle.


 I'm usually at about 8-10 lights on my bike. 2 steady and a blinky up front. 2 blinky and a steady red on the back, wheel lights, glow lights and my fave, 16 ft strand of steady and blinky x mas lights on the frame.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

grumpy old biker said:


> Which one of those has none steady lights to front and back?
> 
> I see a lot of bikes running only flashing lights and at dark that is not much better than having no lights at all, add steady lights and it's completely different story, however flashing light should be reserved for emergency or exception.
> 
> I vote for no flashing lights on bikes, unless it is emergency vehicle.


Human senses are much more sensitive to transitions than to steady state events. Flashing lights are **much** more effective at attracting attention than a constant beam. If you want drivers to notice you, please use a flashing lights on both the front and back of your bike. As for riding in the dark with no lights, I can't think of a way to put yourself at more risk on a bike.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^ That would be the ninja salmon. Short life span.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I spot more completely without light bikes than any other in a city traffic, it is really insane, but people do that. It is dark hours riding for most people, so they should understand to be illuminated, but I see dogs having more lights than bikes!

Of course city riding is bit different from shoulder of highway, when I ride in a city, I ride in a way that it is about same if others see me or not. 
Shoulder of highway, well have to just hope no one will drive on shoulder. 
If there is no highway and riding on road, I prefer steady lights, I can't afford fines of using blinking lights, I would get ticket from that.

Shooks, yeah human senses are like that, but think about moving steady light or flashing light, which is easier to estimate where it will be in 2 seconds from first glimpse?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

grumpy old biker said:


> That target fixation is kinda hard to understand, but indeed that does happen.


It happens on the trail too. Put an new rider on a technical singletrack trail and they'll look straight at the various rocks and logs that they don't want to hit and then....BAM!

A more experienced rider will focus on the path between the obstacles.


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

grumpy old biker said:


> I would never use flashing light, it is lot harder to estimate speed and distance of flashing light compared to constant light.
> 
> I'm using constant light, really bright constant light back and front, actually often I have two front lights, dim city light as a backup for bright Chinese T6 led.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I should have specified I use the flashing light during the day, on windy roads in the redwoods, where someone seeing you is more important than judging distance. I try to avoid biking at night, but if I do, I use non-flashing mode.

Also, where I bike has almost no cell phone service, which is great.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Judging speed is irrelevant if drivers don't notice you in first place. Flashing lights are far safer imo.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

I came very close to killing a cyclist who was riding with no lights on a dark rainy night. I might have noticed him if he had a steady headlight, but I would definitely have seen him if he had a bright flashing light.


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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

Road bikes = Zwift/Watopia.

I've used by road bike for 4000km this year and never taken it out of the garage


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Good reminder topic here. 
I go months without issue as a motorist then it's another round of people out after dark or early mornings and they either don't have a clue about bright clothing/reflective wear or lights or possibly they assume the time they are out is a lull in traffic density and they choose to play the odds.

I'd went a pretty long stretch without complaint up to a month ago or so when cresting a hill on the way to work in the dark. I spotted a faint outline of a person crossing a very dark part of the 4 lane at a pedestrian crossing that was very dark. It's one that expects traffic to yield but again, it was very dark and a sort of blind hill. Most importantly, the guy was part-way crossing and waved almost a friendly HI to me as I went by. He was in dark blue or black clothing and 95 % invisible in the area he was at.

I assume his wave was more of a; "What.the.hell?" gesture and sure, he probably did have the legal ROW but _how's that working for suicidal road-crossers that dress to be invisible ?_

It's just a matter of time before I have the right timing and chance to stop and chat with one of these Einstein's about who should be more pissed off.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Also white clothing when there is snow, perfect camouflage, add few dark pieces and it blends so well that even on daylight there can be challenges spotting such person in distance. Military has snow suits of such kind for a reason.

Cheap bike light is something 2-3 euros, I have been thinking of getting a few and starting stopping those who ride without a light, then install that to their bars. 10 lights would be only 30 euros for most that is not very big cost and with 10 more lights there is already a chance of saving some injuries, maybe a life so that could be new thing to start, if got 4 more people to do the same that would be 50 more light equipped bicycles.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

grumpy;

Your post reminds me of some studies in the UK and even here regarding motorcycle saftey. I became a bit of a student in that regard years ago when transitioning to the streets on a motorcycle. Colors that 'pop out' and high contrast helps too. I see riders on those big road bikes all decked out in gear, suited up and helmet all matching colors. Looks all fashionable and sophisticated BUT.... then I see a silver bike, a black jacket or riding pants and *gawdawful orange* or* lime green* helmet (up there at eye level) !! and guess who I can see better at 200 yards ? :thumbsup:

If we study the effects and reasons why motorists don't see us or how they can better see us, it's all good.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

No regrets:

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/done-road-riding-991980.html#post12256039


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## slimphatty (Sep 9, 2011)

I had a friend who was going to go pro his next cross country season with sponsor deals lined up and major bike brand backing him up. Three days after his last race he was commuting to work and BAM! 3 months in a coma and he hasn't been the same ever sense. He uses prescription glasses now but his vision is still not great. You can tell he's little "off" too.

And he STILL rides 15 road miles on his mtb to get to the trails and another 15 road miles back to his house in Southern California. I'm always worried about the guy. He's a great friend and still a beast on the uphills but he hasn't been the same on the bike ever since.


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## admc7777 (Dec 15, 2017)

I've been done with (serious) road riding for a couple of years now. I was riding with a bright yellow jersey and a neon red helmet but was hit head on by a drunk driver in the middle of the day (on a two-lane road through a small town). Tossed my bike 20 feet into a ditch, cracked the carbon frame into 4 pieces, and she didn't bother to stop her minivan. Luckily, I was near a bike shop and 4 people saw and called the police, as well as they held on to my bike pieces while I was transported to the hospital. 

I'd rather crash everyday on my local trails then risk riding with cars for long periods of time. At least I can control one of the situations!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

admc7777 said:


> I've been done with (serious) road riding for a couple of years now. I was riding with a bright yellow jersey and a neon red helmet but was hit head on by a drunk driver in the middle of the day (on a two-lane road through a small town). Tossed my bike 20 feet into a ditch, cracked the carbon frame into 4 pieces, and she didn't bother to stop her minivan. Luckily, I was near a bike shop and 4 people saw and called the police, as well as they held on to my bike pieces while I was transported to the hospital.
> 
> I'd rather crash everyday on my local trails then risk riding with cars for long periods of time. At least I can control one of the situations!


I'm glad to hear that you survived. What was the extent of your injuries?


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## admc7777 (Dec 15, 2017)

Curveball said:


> I'm glad to hear that you survived. What was the extent of your injuries?


Actually not that bad, I had some neck pain (headfirst through into her windshield) and quite a few small cuts all over. My legs and torso were pretty much one big bruise, but honestly I was really lucky with the outcome. I was riding less than two weeks later, so in the big picture it didn't cause too many problems (except trying to get her insurance to buy me a new bike!).


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

admc7777 said:


> Actually not that bad, I had some neck pain (headfirst through into her windshield) and quite a few small cuts all over. My legs and torso were pretty much one big bruise, but honestly I was really lucky with the outcome. I was riding less than two weeks later, so in the big picture it didn't cause too many problems (except trying to get her insurance to buy me a new bike!).


Did she get arrested? I hope! Good to hear it all worked out.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

It is pretty challenging to road bike. I'm doing it at night and really have to watch the cars. I try to stay on sidewalks as much as possible. I don't care if a cop sees me and even tickets me on the sidewalk, it's better than getting hit in the bike lane. The worst part I've noticed is when you ride by a 7-11, where everyone is turning in or out of the parking lot or gas pumps. They don't look around when they enter/leave. A few close calls by those convenience stores.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> It is pretty challenging to road bike. I'm doing it at night and really have to watch the cars. I try to stay on sidewalks as much as possible. I don't care if a cop sees me and even tickets me on the sidewalk, it's better than getting hit in the bike lane. The worst part I've noticed is when you ride by a 7-11, where everyone is turning in or out of the parking lot or gas pumps. They don't look around when they enter/leave. A few close calls by those convenience stores.


That is why people will tell you it is more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk than in the road. I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't ride on the sidewalk, road situation vary greatly just like trails do. But when you do ride on the sidewalk, you need to realize that drivers are not looking for fast moving objects on the sidewalk coming into their path, even if they are turning. So it is on you to watch for them and not cross over an entry/exit when they are turning in or exiting.

Stay safe.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

Gravel.....I am surrounded by thousands of gravel and level b roads. very few cars on gravel. VERY FEW.....Come down next June and ride with us or any time for that matter. Gravel is the next best thing to mountain biking. Screw riding on the road. As OP stated way to dangerous. OP glad you escaped tragedy.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I keep getting reminded why I do not ride on the road if I can help it, why I have never had a road bike, and why I never would, when I take the less than 1/4 mile of blacktop to get from my side of the road trail to the other on my way to the mountains behind my house. I am constantly getting either clipped, three times now, or forced into the gutter by traffic on the 4 lane road in our residential area. Seriously fukk that. I have been riding off the roads since my Mum used to tell me to be careful of traffic in the early 60s in England. I will always go out of my way to avoid having to ride blacktop with traffic on. Why in god's name would I want to do that when there is dirt out there? I cannot think of anything more soul-destroyingly boring than powering along a road. Even easy flat dirt gets uninteresting at times!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rockerc said:


> I cannot think of anything more soul-destroyingly boring than powering along a road.


Soul destroying? The exact opposite for me, no matter how crappy I feel when I leave for a ride I always return feeling great. For me bikes are bikes, I was hooked on riding long before anyone ever heard of mountain biking.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

iowamtb said:


> Gravel.....I am surrounded by thousands of gravel and level b roads. very few cars on gravel


Some days my body tells me to tread more lightly, those are the days I travel to the gravel and get my work in, crash and car free.

BTW, those are the first pictures of Iowa I have seen that would make me want to stop instead of driving through! Thanks for sharing.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

mileslong said:


> Some days my body tells me to tread more lightly, those are the days I travel to the gravel and get my work in, crash and car free.
> 
> BTW, those are the first pictures of Iowa I have seen that would make me want to stop instead of driving through! Thanks for sharing.


 Everyone thinks Iowa is flat. While we don't have mountains the gravel roads around here are continuous climbs one after another just like a roller coaster.

You're welcome. Next time you're coming through give me a shout in advance and maybe we can hook up and do a ride. There's more pictures on my blogspot in my signature. Check it out sometime!! ?


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Soul destroying? The exact opposite for me, no matter how crappy I feel when I leave for a ride I always return feeling great. For me bikes are bikes, I was hooked on riding long before anyone ever heard of mountain biking.


Each to their own JB! I always found farm tracks and bridle ways to ride on when I was a small child. For many years I had the same old rod braked bike I chopped and changed to ride it off the road back when a 3 speed was state of the art! I have always loved riding and adventuring on bikes, but always off the beaten path.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

No.3 in your group is on the money, but he needs to go fatter! :thumbsup:



iowamtb said:


> View attachment 1173187


I ride road as well, but here in Switzerland Im nowhere near a "city", and the drivers (well 99.9% of them) are polite and leave heaps of room.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

iowamtb said:


> Gravel.....I am surrounded by thousands of gravel and level b roads. very few cars on gravel. VERY FEW.....Come down next June and ride with us or any time for that matter. Gravel is the next best thing to mountain biking. Screw riding on the road. As OP stated way to dangerous. OP glad you escaped tragedy.
> 
> View attachment 1173187
> View attachment 1173188
> View attachment 1173189


That looks awesome, I don't think we have that type of gravel road in SoCal.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

cmg71 said:


> No.3 in your group is on the money, but he needs to go fatter! :thumbsup:
> 
> I ride road as well, but here in Switzerland Im nowhere near a "city", and the drivers (well 99.9% of them) are polite and leave heaps of room.


 If by number three you mean the guy on the fatty, then all he rides is fat. I don't think he knows any other bike exists LOL. It's fat for everything for that guy. I am the actual number three in the picture at the tail end on the soma wolverine. The guy taking the picture is the one that owns the Surly


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Understood, l said No.3 as feom the pic, ie; Surly, rider on gravel bike, champ on a fatty, you at the back

nothing wrong with all fat all the time, dudes a champ


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