# Old school aesthetics



## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I don't really want to get into it with folks who might engage me in a form over function/horses for courses argument, but any committed VRC folks gazing at drop bars lately and just thinking: why did I ever stray?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Well done drop bar builds are almost always quite unattractive. It's the stem. MHO of course.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Is this unattractive to you? (Because we can stop talking if so...)


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

As Jeff said, it's the stem. That Moser looks nice, Force crankset notwithstanding but the stem has no rise giving it a more aggressive look while most drop builds use stems with hybrid amounts of rise. I personally prefer the look of a dirt drop but the stem situation leaves a lot to be desired, aesthetically speaking.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Well done and "quite unattractive" are mutually exclusive. I'm not an engineer though, so your YMMV.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

For a fat tired 26" road build it's right.


mainlyfats said:


> Is this unattractive to you? (Because we can stop talking if so...)


Bad ass bikes. Homely in my eyes. I'd proudly own either.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

jeff said:


> For a fat tired 26" road build it's right.
> 
> Bad ass bikes. Homely in my eyes. I'd proudly own either.


Ah, yes. I'm feeling you now.

(that was a delicious, but clearly pretty argumentive bottle of Malbec)


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I've said it before but I think drop bar bikes are tough to get right from a number of perspectives, including aesthetically.

If you make your drop bar mountain bike look like a road/CX bike or like a John Tomac bike, you did it wrong. 
If you try and make your drop bar bike using a frame that is too small or has an especially short HT, it's gonna look weird. Might work ok, but proportions will be awkward looking. 
I've had multiple drop bar bike projects that were forced and a) didn't look right and b) didn't ride right.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Good choice. One of my favorites but I get surly too. 


mainlyfats said:


> Ah, yes. I'm feeling you now.
> 
> (that was a delicious, but clearly pretty argumentive bottle of Malbec)


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

The OG and your Salsa are damn near perfect too. The aesthetics and lack of shifter mounts are what's stalling me from twisting one up myself. 


Rumpfy said:


> I've said it before but I think drop bar bikes are tough to get right from a number of perspectives, including aesthetically.
> 
> If you make your drop bar mountain bike look like a road/CX bike or like a John Tomac bike, you did it wrong.
> If you try and make your drop bar bike using a frame that is too small or has an especially short HT, it's gonna look weird. Might work ok, but proportions will be awkward looking.
> I've had multiple drop bar bike projects that were forced and a) didn't look right and b) didn't ride right.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

I think drop bar bikes don't look so good in side shots, at least those with flared bars. Angled shots look a lot cleaner.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

All those look great, I havent gotten it right yet. One day.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

DoubleCentury said:


> I think drop bar bikes don't look so good in side shots, at least those with flared bars. Angled shots look a lot cleaner.


Good point. CBC doesn't have a bad angle though.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Good point. CBC doesn't have a bad angle though.


Thanks.

I think a greater challenge is making a modern hardtail with drop bars look good. Still working on that one.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Is this trying to be something it isn't?


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## Buddysnack (Jan 30, 2013)

Personally, I have always liked the somewhat ugly look of a drop bar MTB. Have you never found someone ugly attractive? Either way, both mean business!

Ultra Romance on Instagram is doing his part in making the drop bar MTB look romantically rugged. Girlonbike has always looked bad ass on her drops to mine eyes. I am sure there are many car analogies as well that I can't think of...


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

How about this one


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

It really is mostly stem, isn't it? I mean, some of the nu school overly flared bars are a venturing into moustache torture IMO, but the stems... Stems are hard.









I wish this one wasn't set up for hot-food delivery, but whatever pays the bills...


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

mainlyfats said:


> .. some of the nu school overly flared bars are a venturing into moustache torture IMO...


Having failed with several attempts at moustache bar cockpits before finally getting it right, I'd say you just need to keep trying. Once it works, they're sublime. I prefer them for any mixed-terrain ride or any ride up to about 75 miles, and all of my other "roadish" bikes with regular drops have collected dust since I figured it out. I'm sure the magic tweak, that finally makes them work, will be different for every user but, for me, it was getting them at saddle level and stretching them further than expected on a long stem.

Being guilty of building some ugly and uncomfortable drop-bar mountain bikes, I agree with your original sentiment for the thread. I can definitely speak to the "why did I ever stray" question, though:

- I have a bicycle addiction, but have a hard time justifying redundancy. So drop bars seemed like a good way to rationalize owning another bike, and adding some variety. (I'm sure I'm alone in this, though.  )

- During those dark years, from the mid 1990s through the late 2000s or so, when there were very few significant design advances, what the hell else were you going to do with your time? Tinkering was a fun and cheap way to figure out what worked for you, in terms of geometry and fit, when new bikes didn't offer anything worth the cost of buying them.

- Once bike design did start advancing again, I actually began thinking of many late 80's / 90s bikes as being more similar to road bikes than mountain bikes - so it made sense to try and set them up that way. For me and my physiology in particular, the taller front ends achieved by bigger wheels and longer travel forks, plus the more playful all-mountain type geometries, are superior in every way to the old NORBA-inspired geometries. While I love my old bikes, I can no longer think of them as being good for anything other than fast, flattish rides. The thing that _really_ did it though, was endomorph! Since then, I've been unable to think of any tire less than about 3" wide as an off-road tire, or any bike that wouldn't fit them as a mountain bike.

For a retro-minded biker who enjoys the simple joys and aesthetics of rigid bikes, this is a great era. With plus size mountain bike tires becoming the norm, AND with high-quality road tires actually becoming available in 26x2.3" sizes, I have a feeling I'll be experimenting with drop-bar setups for some of those old bikes all over again, if I want to ever use them. But, yeah.... the aesthetics...

Maybe this _is_ "trying to be something it's not," but here's my bike with the happy moustache setup and 2.3" road tires:


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

iamkeith said:


> But, yeah.... the aesthetics...
> 
> Maybe this _is_ "trying to be something it's not," but here's my bike with the happy moustache setup and 2.3" road tires:
> 
> View attachment 1033110


That quip - two small vodkas last night, promise - was more about a name for every bike. I'd ride that Riv bike to the best of my abilities everywhere, but if I'm not mistaken that's Riv's mtb _masquerading_ as - depending on who you ask - either a gravel grinder, dirt tourer, monster cross or retro cx bike. It might also be an unnameable exercise in romantic wrenching.

Those Grand Bois tires? Hawt... They come in 29er size?


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

mainlyfats said:


> Those Grand Bois tires? Hawt... They come in 29er size?


From Compass, but their own brand - "Rat Trap Pass" model.

https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/26-inch/compass-26-x-2-3-rat-trap-pass/

They don't make anything this fat in 29. I think Schwalbe Super Motos would be about as close as you could get for a high volume tire, this supple.

I just managed to get a couple of rides on them before snow started flying. They're like riding on clouds, and didn't seem to suffer any speed reduction over narrower tires. Expensive as hell, but just tell me they don't get you thinking about ways to breathe new life into an old 26" mtb by turning it into a road warrior!..


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I figured as much and shot them off an email. Not yet available in 700c. They won't divulge if one is in production.

Love the Super Motos in 26. Will likely go that way again with the new 29er, but TAN WALL!


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Not actual VRC but with the soul of such a bike, this may look wonky but it fits my body and my riding style.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I can't seem to shake the allure of building a drop bar bike that looks good, AND fits well. I keep trying different setups on my DB Overdrive, but I haven't found the right one yet. I'm currently running an adjustable stem to nail down the rise and reach before I pull the trigger on a Clockwork Bikes LD stem.

I love the look of drop bar builds, both the Tomac/roadie style, and the Cunningham/Ibis style. I don't know what it is about them, but I love the aesthetic. I keep looking back at all the threads trying to get mine just right.

Thanks for keeping the stoke alive!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

I believe this one is looking right.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Along the lines of aesthetics, how do you route the housing for bar-end shifters? I see some that wrap it under the bar tape up to the brake lever area, and some that run it straight out of the shifter without wrapping it under the bar tape. The LBS that wrapped my bars didn't wrap it under the bar tape (to be fair, I didn't tell them how to do it). It is driving me crazy. The housing is always in my way when I'm in the drops. Pros & cons of doing it either way (besides the obvious)?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Under the bars on the straight section of the drops.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

colker1 said:


> Best part is the pedals.


Ha!


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## digitalayon (Jul 31, 2007)

Lol.....you will always find things that people want because of looks. Sports cars are not just bought for their motors. However I bought kooka cranks back in the day thinking they would perform because they looked good. Snapped two sets under warranty and said never again to that crap. But looks play a nice part. 3 years ago Giant had a bike that was cinnamon color and I wanted it badly though the parts on it were trash. But I loved the color. So it is easy to be stupid for choosing what looks good over performance.


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

I think this one looks OK:









My drop bar builds have tended to be single speeds so I didn't have to deal with shifters.

The Matt Chester below is my go to bike for almost any ride. But it's purpose built and not very VRC (Shown with Alfine, but currently built as a SS):









-jw


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