# Chainsaws: Electric Vs Gas



## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

I need to get a new chainsaw for clearing deadfall from trails and I'm considering an electric saw in an attempt to keep my pack as minimal as possible. Anyone have experience with them? I'd mostly be cutting trees that are under 2' in diameter. The quietness, lack of emissions, portability and not having to carry fuel are definitely a plus for e-saws, but lack of power, run time and short bar length are a concern. I'm curious to see your experiences.


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## old_MTBer (Feb 16, 2014)

Here are two existing threads to read up on the e-saw discussion.

http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/should-i-buy-cordless-electric-chain-saw-1025863.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/cordless-chain-saw-894504.html


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## MudderNutter (Oct 23, 2014)

I would look at something like this... they will make very quick work of the size limbs your are talking about. The saw comes in a 15 and a 21 inch version.

https://www.amazon.com/SVEN-SAW-Sve...12483975&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=sven-saw&psc=1


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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

Advantages of electric saws: Cheaper initial cost, quiet operation, lightweight, easy starting, less fire hazard, no exhaust. 

Disadvantages: Shorter run time, which will become even shorter over time, less power-slower cutting, not so good for larger logs>24". Batteries are expensive to replace and fairly heavy to carry extras.

So, if you carry the saw on your bike and just do sporadic cutting, this could be a good choice. A lot of heavy duty cutting- a gas saw is the ticket.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I've been running my G-Max 40v 16" for a few years now, cut a lot of 4"-8" dead oak firewood with it, as well as the occasional 12" - 16" Ponderosa pine blowdown. I would not go back to gas if at all possible, these electric saws are amazing... powerful, last a long time. It doesn't run down in one session unless bucking a big 16"er. Another advantage for packing it is that the battery can be carried by someone else. Hard to beat for $250. I use a homemade double 50 watt panel PV system charging a 600 watt agm battery, for remote charging. I really like the pico chain, it's got a super narrow kerf and cuts quickly and efficiently. Get the pro chain from Bailey's.

I have run gas saws my whole life for logging and construction, as well as cord type electric for carving joints in logs and timbers. My G-Max is a dream for such work.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

I don't have the saw (yet), but my lawnmower and leaf blower are the 40v gmax, I'll never go back to gas. I have 3 full seasons on the batteries with no obvious signs of them slowing down


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I think the G-Max 40v 4 amp batteries are still the sweet spot. I was going to get a spare but it never really was an issue. I also have the 14" string trimmer, so nice. Again, the battery goes longer than I do.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

I've used two electric saws at this point. If you're interested, and trail clearing is why you want a saw, go for it. Basically, if you go buy a big gas saw, you'll have way more saw than you need to clear deadfall in most places. If you buy a smaller gas saw that's lighter and easier to carry, it really won't have much more than an 18" bar (you can cut a 32" tree with that...think about it) and probably not much more power than one of the big electric saws, which will be about the same weight. So forget comparing power and weight. Do you want to mess with gas or not? Will you need to use it enough to need to carry extra gas? If not, you won't need an extra battery either. Extra batteries don't stink, and you can't accidentally kill stuff by spilling them. (seriously, lets avoid discussing batteries breaking open - if you broke one of these batteries you'd have bigger concerns than arguing on the internet, and we've ALL spilled some gas refilling a saw)

To me, it's a no brainer. The electric saw makes a lot of sense if this is what you need it for.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

bsieb said:


> I think the G-Max 40v 4 amp batteries are still the sweet spot. I was going to get a spare but it never really was an issue. I also have the 14" string trimmer, so nice. Again, the battery goes longer than I do.


I have the Greenworks G-Max 40v brushless saw and a few other tools and I agree with you. My buddy has the Greenworks 80V saw and it doesn't really cut any better than mine. Although there are many more options on the market now, so the decision is more about what brand and battery series you want to go with.



Cotharyus said:


> To me, it's a no brainer. The electric saw makes a lot of sense if this is what you need it for.


2nd this, if clearing fallen trees from trails is the primary usage, then a battery electric saw is the only way to go.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Another point to consider, is that the FS allows cordless saws during stage 2 fire closure, and doesn't require chainsaw training/cert to use them. Big deal here in the SW forests.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

In our neck of the woods we frequently get big (+24") hardwood deadfalls and it's nice to have the speed/power of a gas saw. I carry gas in a 1L soda bottle (or two) and stick them in my pack. Each gives 2 extra tanks of fuel. No spillage, easy to pour, and easy to transport. Once electric saws are on par for this task, it's a no brainer.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Interesting.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

aero901 said:


> In our neck of the woods we frequently get big (+24") hardwood deadfalls and it's nice to have the speed/power of a gas saw. I carry gas in a 1L soda bottle (or two) and stick them in my pack. Each gives 2 extra tanks of fuel. No spillage, easy to pour, and easy to transport. Once electric saws are on par for this task, it's a no brainer.


What I'm saying is, based on my experience, electric saws ARE on par with the size gas saw you would choose to pack in to a deadfall like you describe if it was several miles in. If weight was no object, and you carry a massive gas saw, then yes, the gas saw will be faster. If you buy something in the power to weight ratio sweet spot though, the performance is very similar to a good battery saw.


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## Klainmeister (Apr 14, 2012)

bsieb said:


> Another point to consider, is that the FS allows cordless saws during stage 2 fire closure, and doesn't require chainsaw training/cert to use them. Big deal here in the SW forests.


Interesting to know. I missed the last cert for a while here in Santa Fe and was wondering if electric skirts the issue.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^I have been using an axe or crosscut saw a lot too, having acquired a bit of a vintage tool habit due to post modern disgust. I got a sweet 4' racing saw that works well on the big Pondys. Three 5 minute pulls for two people, plus an oiler to squirt kerosene in the cut.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Cotharyus said:


> What I'm saying is, based on my experience, electric saws ARE on par with the size gas saw you would choose to pack in to a deadfall like you describe if it was several miles in. If weight was no object, and you carry a massive gas saw, then yes, the gas saw will be faster. If you buy something in the power to weight ratio sweet spot though, the performance is very similar to a good battery saw.


I've had a 58V Echo for a couple seasons now and agree completely.
Unless you're a lumberjack, electric is the way to go.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

This is how I'm going several miles in. The battery is in the frame bag so maybe ~7 lbs. on the loop bar. The boys axe is a wedge driver/pinched bar rescue tool.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Cotharyus said:


> What I'm saying is, based on my experience, electric saws ARE on par with the size gas saw you would choose to pack in to a deadfall like you describe if it was several miles in. If weight was no object, and you carry a massive gas saw, then yes, the gas saw will be faster. If you buy something in the power to weight ratio sweet spot though, the performance is very similar to a good battery saw.


Weight is definitely an object for me as I either ride from my house to the trails or ride my motorcycles with my bike on a rack behind me, (anywhere from 5-10 miles across town to the trail head, then several miles in.) I work in an urban trail system; portability is a must, but performance matters, too. I'm the junior sawyer in a crew of 5, so if there's bigger deadfall, 3 of the guys have 24" Stihl's and the other two have 20-24" Husky's.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^If you try a good 16"-18" cordless you probably won't go back. Won't know until you try though... completely different experience.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Gigantic said:


> Weight is definitely an object for me as I either ride from my house to the trails or ride my motorcycles with my bike on a rack behind me, (anywhere from 5-10 miles across town to the trail head, then several miles in.) I work in an urban trail system; portability is a must, but performance matters, too. I'm the junior sawyer in a crew of 5, so if there's bigger deadfall, 3 of the guys have 24" Stihl's and the other two have 20-24" Husky's.


When I was working for a tree service, we had a 16" saw, an 18" saw, a 20" saw, and a 36" saw in addition to several climbing saws. Most of the time, if the 20" saw got used it was because we had a bunch of people cutting, not because we needed a saw that big. A lot of the guys would use the 16" saw because it was the lightest and easiest to handle, even if they had to cut a couple of inches on the other side of a log to get all the way through it. I ran the 18" most of the time because I happened to know what the power to weight ratio was on all the saws, and it had the best. As the senior guy on the crew, it was basically my saw. I kept the chain sharp, and I could cut circles around pretty much everyone else. Stihl 036 (360 now I think) for the record. Our big saw (36") only got used when a smaller saw would create a safety issue. To start with, no one wants to lug an 088 power head around, never mind the bar and chain. Also, it took a solid hour to sharpen the chain, and everyone knew the fastest way to piss me off was hit something with that saw. The 20" saw was an 044, and it would cut like mad, but it would kill you in the process. The 16" saw was an 026. Honestly, I never felt like it had enough power to cut fast enough if I was making money with it, but it got the job done.

What's all that mean? To put in perspective, as a trail builder I'm carrying a Stihl 250 now with an 18" bar. That's it. Every good electric saw I've used felt like it fell somewhere between the 026 we used on crew and the 250 I have now. Why don't I have an electric saw? Because I've burned through tanks and tanks of fuel in one day as a builder if I'm working where I need a saw. Simply put, if that wasn't the case, an electric saw would be perfect for me, and maybe a little lighter.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Why not a cross cut hand saw and also an arborist style saw such as a Silky, ARS, Fanno, etc.. You can cut a lot with a top quality hand saw. Anything bigger then probably a gas powered chain saw.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

endo_alley said:


> Why not a cross cut hand saw and also an arborist style saw such as a Silky, ARS, Fanno, etc.. You can cut a lot with a top quality hand saw. Anything bigger then probably a gas powered chain saw.


Fine for a small tree or two that only needs a couple of cuts to deal with it. Get into 8 or 10" trees that need 5 or 6 cuts as a minimum to open the trail, much faster and easier with a chainsaw, but still no need for anything more than an electric saw. The problem is electric chainsaws have a stigma attached to them because of the old corded homeowner saws. These new saws share nothing but a bar and chain in common with those old things.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Cotharyus said:


> Fine for a small tree or two that only needs a couple of cuts to deal with it. Get into 8 or 10" trees that need 5 or 6 cuts as a minimum to open the trail, much faster and easier with a chainsaw, but still no need for anything more than an electric saw. The problem is electric chainsaws have a stigma attached to them because of the old corded homeowner saws. These new saws share nothing but a bar and chain in common with those old things.


We cut considerably larger dead fall by hand. Usually two cuts. One to the left of the trail. Another to the right of the trail. Or one cut and roll or drag what is left off the trail. This is for deadfall cutting. Not for initial corridor cut.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

endo_alley said:


> We cut considerably larger dead fall by hand. Usually two cuts. One to the left of the trail. Another to the right of the trail. Or one cut and roll or drag what is left off the trail. This is for deadfall cutting. Not for initial corridor cut.


My go to is a Fanno 30" Bull Saw, handles most deadfall with ease, and is painless to carry in it's leather frame scabbard. Or a Council Tool 28" Boys Axe if it's green wood, just for the pleasure of chopping. All depends on the distance and amount of cutting.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

I like the bigger Silky saws. I understand that if you have a very big piece of hardwood in the trail a chain saw can't be beat. Along with a come-along to drag the cut logs. It seems like stuff falls over most often in an aspen forest pretty much a daily occurrence. Next is lodgepole and conifer forest. I guess an ice storm back east can do havoc in a hardwood forest at times. But a good hand saw will get through most aspens and higher altitude conifers pretty well. The big hardwoods don't seem to fall over quite as often.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^The Bull Saw is easy to file razor sharp and won't kink or bend. I like the Silky saws a lot too. To be fair, this thread was about gas vs cordless electric chainsaws.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

bsieb said:


> ^The Bull Saw is easy to file razor sharp and won't kink or bend. I like the Silky saws a lot too. To be fair, this thread was about gas vs cordless electric chainsaws.


Yep. In point of fact, I carry a nice handsaw in my pack just about all the time. But there's a limit to what I'm willing to spend my arms on while I'm out for a ride.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Comparing an Echo CS-400 (10.4lbs) to an Echo 58V saw (13.7lbs). 

Energy of one battery: 0.232KWh
Energy of one tank of gas (14 oz): 3.6KWh

Batteries and motors are very efficient so let's say 80% of the battery energy gets to moving the blade and only 25% of the gas energy makes it there.

Energy to blade electric saw: .186KWh
Energy to blade gas saw: 0.9KWh

So the gas saw has 5 times more energy to cut than the electric one if we're going by one battery vs one tank of gas.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

So how many cuts does that end up being? Just to get a real-world feel for what those numbers mean.

I'd agree with gas for major corridor cutting, but for regular blow-down or yard work (not some epic weather event that takes down hundreds of trees or cutting cordwood all day), a couple of 4 amp/hour batteries in the 58v is more than sufficient IME.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

The gas saw will use gas during start up and idling so I think a safe estimation is that your two batteries will cut the equivalent of a half a tank of the gas saw. That's still a pretty good amount.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Not sure your logic is useful, I cut firewood next to gas saws all the time (Farm Boss, MS250), they normally refuel before my battery runs down. The electric saws only run a few seconds per cut, whereas the gas saws run continually. This is 4" to 8" standing dead Gambel oak. The .43 pico chain is a real advantage imo, half the kerf width is a big deal.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Physics is physics. If you're going to change things like kerf width then that is another variable that really has nothing to do with electric vs gas.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I'll take real life experience over doodle-paper estimates any day of the week.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

lol


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Schulze said:


> Physics is physics. If you're going to change things like kerf width then that is another variable that really has nothing to do with electric vs gas.


But it does, because it takes more energy to move the larger kerf chain that gas saws use through the wood then the narrow kerf chain of an electric saw. Your numbers only looked at energy to the blade, there is still the energy of the blade itself not taken into account.

I've used my battery saw side by side with similar sized gas saws, and one 4 AH 40V battery lasts about the same time as one tank of gas when doing similar cutting tasks.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Here is a good comparison I came across recently:
Chainsaw Grudge Match: Gas vs. Electric


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Ok

"Decision: When it comes to firewood, the goal is to produce the most useable pieces in the least amount of time. It's that simple. If you make a racket and a stink, so be it-at least by being as efficient as possible you can reduce that unpleasantness.* In the time it took me to make 55 pieces of stove wood with the electric saw, I used the gas saw to make more than twice that amount of wood cutting in conditions that were far more difficult.*

Looks like there's something to those doodle paper estimates. Or did your pappy teach you that numbers and learnin is just for those aca....aca...acatemics?

I'll take a published article by a real journalist over those yammerings of anonymous internet keyboard hunt and peckers any day of the week.

Good article.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^I'll keep my cordless saw thanks, it has cut all my firewood for three years now, for my town home and mountain cabin, and has cleared lots of dead and wind falls on the trails, everything I used to do with an MS250. If it's not theoretically the best it still works well in my real world.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

JustMtnB44 said:


> Here is a good comparison I came across recently:
> Chainsaw Grudge Match: Gas vs. Electric


The difference in these two sets of conditions in the article are basically exactly why I have the MS250 (though, fortunately not the C-E version) rather than an electric saw. For me it's a matter of how much cutting HAS to be done, not something I can always do a little at a time. Again, if I was just looking for a saw for maintain or clearing deadfall on existing trails, an electric saw with one extra battery would be the tool of choice, every time.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Schulze said:


> Looks like there's something to those doodle paper estimates. Or did your pappy teach you that numbers and learnin is just for those aca....aca...acatemics?
> 
> I'll take a published article by a real journalist over those yammerings of anonymous internet keyboard hunt and peckers any day of the week.
> 
> Good article.


How much trailwork you think your 'real journalist' does regularly? 
More or less than yourself?

Didn't need your article; my real world experience led me to share the exact same conclusion a couple time in this thread already. Same with a number of other posters. But why would I listen to guys that are actually out there using the tools to do the same things I want to do with them when I can dig up some random internet article that agrees with what I think I know. Cuz Googling is sehr "acatemic".


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

What I find most hilarious is how you seem to take my numbers so personally, as if I am trying to insult you or something. I started doing calculations for my own knowledge because I was trying to get an idea of what the saws were working with. I put them in a post purely for the enjoyment of others and to contribute to the discussion. Since then, I've done some reading and Youtube watching and I haven't seen anything that would cause me to question the performance estimates. 

Question for you slapheadmofo: Assuming the cutting performance is equal across saws of equivalent size such as the two Echos I compared, what factors do you think contribute to leveling out the available energy disparity?

Or do you think I have an error in calculation? 

Considering the other advantages battery saws have, if they cut as well as a gas saw, why isn't it in the advertisements as a selling point?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Schulze said:


> What I find most hilarious is how you seem to take my numbers so personally, as if I am trying to insult you or something.


I simply stated that I put more stock in empirical evidence, Mr Defensive.
To which you responded with insults.

Go back to playing your doodle pad.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Schulze said:


> "Decision: When it comes to firewood, the goal is to produce the most useable pieces in the least amount of time. It's that simple. If you make a racket and a stink, so be it-at least by being as efficient as possible you can reduce that unpleasantness.* In the time it took me to make 55 pieces of stove wood with the electric saw, I used the gas saw to make more than twice that amount of wood cutting in conditions that were far more difficult.*
> 
> Looks like there's something to those doodle paper estimates. Or did your pappy teach you that numbers and learnin is just for those aca....aca...acatemics?
> 
> I'll take a published article by a real journalist over those yammerings of anonymous internet keyboard hunt and peckers any day of the week.





Schulze said:


> What I find most hilarious is how you seem to take my numbers so personally, as if I am trying to insult you or something. I started doing calculations for my own knowledge because I was trying to get an idea of what the saws were working with. I put them in a post purely for the enjoyment of others and to contribute to the discussion. Since then, I've done some reading and Youtube watching and I haven't seen anything that would cause me to question the performance estimates.
> 
> Considering the other advantages battery saws have, if they cut as well as a gas saw, why isn't it in the advertisements as a selling point?


Have you actually used a cordless electric saw? It sounds like you haven't. You did insult everyone, and are taking a holier than thou position based on theoreticals without having first hand experience. I don't see how you have anything useful to contribute in this comparison discussion, but if you must add your two cents at least don't be a dick about it.

I don't think anyone ever said that the cordless saws outperform or even cut as fast as gas saws, because they don't. In most situations, especially as log diameter increases, the gas saws do cut faster. But this discussion isn't about cutting firewood or logging operations. For building and maintaining trails, it doesn't matter if it takes an extra minute or so to cut through a log. And the batteries have enough energy to cut through several logs. The many other advantages of cordless saws such as low noise, no emissions, less mess, no fire risk, etc are enough to make up for the decrease in performance, which is still totally adequate.



Cotharyus said:


> The difference in these two sets of conditions in the article are basically exactly why I have the MS250 (though, fortunately not the C-E version) rather than an electric saw. For me it's a matter of how much cutting HAS to be done, not something I can always do a little at a time. Again, if I was just looking for a saw for maintain or clearing deadfall on existing trails, an electric saw with one extra battery would be the tool of choice, every time.


Exactly. I thought that article was a fair and unbiased comparison.


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## ApacheMaid (Jun 20, 2020)

Get the Silky Katanaboy, with 19" or 25" blade length. It's a bit easier to carry than a saw, don't have to worry about gas/oil or leaks, and it comes with a samurai tote bag. Took it out on the AZT a few weeks ago and took care of business.

















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