# Smithy 3-in-1 ?



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I have very limited space, and was therefore looking at buying a Smithy 3-in-1. It would be used for a project here and there, and to help with a frame or two, once that comes together. Am I just buying into a world of hurt and regret, or will it be adequate? My time is cheap (to me), but I can't have it breaking all the time, or doing sloppy work.

http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=160

http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=155


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## HomeGrownSS (Jan 18, 2006)

i find it strange that it doesnt have a thread dial. that limits its usefulness quite a bit in my opinion.


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

We have one at work, and I have nothing good to say about it except that it is compact. It is an older one, but looks pretty similar to the ones you're looking at.
The lathe portion is a 12" swing, but the spindle speed selection is kind of high to really take advantage of that. I think the lowest spindle speed is 160 RPM. Threading at that speed can get pretty exciting, especially with no thread dial (requiring you to leave the lead screw engaged and shut the motor off). The included 3-jaw lathe chuck bolts on to a back plate that is permanently attached to the spindle. This setup is pretty inaccurate, in terms of having the chuck center repeatably, and makes adding other chucks (like a four jaw) inconvenient. The tailstock travel is really short- drilling deep holes requires loosening and re-clamping the tailstock a few times.
On the mill portion of ours, the design is such that the milling cutter can only be brought within about 4" of the table. This means that, to mill anything, you have to either hold it in a vise or block it up somehow, which is inaccurate and time-consuming. The mill head itself is not at all rigid. If you're milling steel, you have to take extremely light cuts. The spindle is a Morse taper, which is kind of silly for a milling machine these days, as collets and end mill holders are a lot harder to find than R8 taper stuff. Morse tapers don't take side loads as well, either.

I could go on, but I think you'll probably get the idea that I am not a Smithy fan. 
All that said, if you have enough time and patience, you can make good parts on any machine. It's mostly a matter of how much aggravation you want to put up with. Every time I use our Smithy I feel like throwing it through the window- that doesn't happen when I operate older, American-made machinery.
Andy


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

In that case, is there any compact machine similar to the Smithy which would do a better job?

There simply isn't enough space to bring in a mill, much less a lathe.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*If you just want to build frames...*

...get a tube notcher or just a set of files. I have only played around with the mini-mill/lathe type machines, but I generally got the impression that you won't save yourself any time vs. just hand filing, once all the messed up cuts and setup time are taken into account.

If you want to do general machining stuff, that's a different story, but for a frame or two a year, just do 'em by hand. The joint jigger type notchers can be made to work ok with a regular old electric (variable speed, preferably) drill, as long as you're not trying to cut anything super thin/hard.

Thought about a horizontal mill? Those are pretty small sometimes and they're great for framebuilding.

-Walt


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It's mostly for general machining, and helping do frames would be an added bonus. I don't mind doing things by hand, but there's a lot I simply can't do by hand.

I've thought about a horizontal mill before, and looked around Craigslist before. While I feel I could make a mill to do some of what I'd want lathe for, I still yearn for a lathe.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Since a mill was mentioned, I gotta say............stay away from the cheap made in China, Grizzly mini-mill. Mine broke only after a few hours (at most) of use. The gears are made of plastic. :madman:

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G8689-Mini-Milling-Machine/dp/B0000DCZ7E


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## smdubovsky (Apr 27, 2007)

Smokebikes said:


> ...Grizzly mini-mill. Mine broke only after a few hours (at most) of use. The gears are made of plastic.


Common problem I hear. The guys at pmdx (http://www.pmdx.com/) were making a toothed belt replacement. Not sure if the kit is avail yet or not.

I now have big machines but I started w/ an enco 9x20 lathe (that my brother still has.) IMO, its a better setup than a smithy. A similarly sized southbend 9 can be had for cheap, but metric threading gears are harder to comeby ($) if you need alot of that. Had one of those too at one pt. The micro/mini mills are basically toys *BUT* Im a member of a local CNC group where lots of people have them and they can do some AMAZING work. Just takes them longer.

Andy has it right. W/ enough time and patience you can make good parts w/ anything. So if a 3-n-1 is all you really have space for and you need a mill and a lathe, then its better than nothing!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Is there maybe a mini mill and mini lathe someone could recommend?

Pleeeeeeeeease?


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

You may want to try to find a shop to share with some other folks. If you look around you may be suprised what you might find. Sharing a shop space in a cooperative way can allow you to get full size tooling that is up to doing real work.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Heres the deal on 3 in ones. They do nothing well. There are a lot of brands out there and of them, Smithy is the top of the line. Don't buy it.
You should be able to pick up a small Atlas lathe for 6-900 on Craigslist and It will do infinitely more things better than a mini jobber.


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## lynd (May 19, 2006)

3 in 1 machines are the Swiss Army knife of the machining world. Like the poster above, they don't do anything as well as a dedicated $6K 3000lb machine, but that's not what they are designed for. Some good introspection on your machining plans will make your decision. If your building engine parts for a top fuel dragster then yes you need the tolerances, and repeatability of the bigger, expensive machines. If you make a living building bikes, then by all means get a shop with space and 3 phase power and some good used equipment (mill, lathe, etc) and work on your processes so you can increase your speed and ease of use.

However IMHO, if your limited on space, electrical requirements, and just are just looking at this from a hobbyist perspective, then the Smithy equipment is a viable option. I was in your shoes just a year ago. My shop is in my basement and getting full size equipment there was not feasible. I opted for the Granit series from Smithy over the Midas, for a couple reasons. Better accuracy, R8 mill collet, X and Y power feed, etc. It's not perfect and has some issues, but they are not bad enough to discount it as an option. As mentioned above the 3 jaw chuck is not perfect. But if you really want accuracy, go for a 4 jaw, or the get the 5C collet setup for it. The mill head has just a bit of wiggle to it when milling something hard and using something burly like a big fly cutter. You may have to slow down your feed rate, or take a few more passes, but it doesn't mean quality work can't be made from one.

I've made some jigs for mitering, purge fitting, heat sinks, headlight enclosures, and mics. other pieces and parts around the house. It works for me. If your making a living machining or building bikes, maybe find a way to get or use dedicated equipment. Otherwise, it's a sound investment IMHO.


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## smdubovsky (Apr 27, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> Is there maybe a mini mill and mini lathe someone could recommend?


Hard to give general recommendations. Whats you budget, actual space, etc. IMO, Search CL and find an atlas, south bend 9", heck even a used import 9x20 for cheap (don't buy one of those new). Should be <$500 w/ tooling. My old 9x20 fit on top of a craftsman tool chest (w/ a little overhang, but you get the idea.) As far as mills go, there are US benchmasters, hardinge horizontals, etc. There there are the import minimills. US stuff is often nicer, but bigger & stiffer (which is WHY its nicer). If you don't have the space, the import mini mills are tiny and can be carried around. Don't know of anything US that was ever THAT small. There ws a TINY hardinge or something posted on OM once but tis the only once I've ever seen.

Best thing you can do is search the internet and educate yourself and decide what *YOU* want/need. Your EXACT question has come up countless times if you search for it. Everyone is always short on space Probably the best place for you to research/post is:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/index.php
There is also:
www.practicalmachinist.com
but they *DO NOT* tolerate talking about import home/"toy" sized machines. Still an excellent place to read and get lots of info. Even possibly find a small US made machine in the classifieds.

Edit:
I guess my best pc of advice is don't buy new. Once you educate yourself and start looking lots of decent stuff is avail out there for cheap. Even the 3n1s turn up on CL if thats what you really decide is the only option.


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## HomeGrownSS (Jan 18, 2006)

i also have a 3 in 1, an Emco V10P from the late 70s. i like it a lot, it does what i need it to do. having separate machines would be great, but this thing does the trick, for now.


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

"Emco V10P from the late 70s"................I want one! :thumbsup:


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

The Emco units are much higher quality than the Smithys, though I've never used one I suspect they would work way better.
If space is limited I would lean towards just getting a good-quality American lathe. You can do quite a few small milling jobs on a lathe with a cross-slide milling attachment.
It looks like the Smithy Granite series addresses some of the problems that I have with our Midas (Camlock spindle, R8 mill spindle, slower speeds, ect.). Looks like you still can't get the mill spindle down to the table, though, which is a real pain if you want to mill anything you can't hold in the vise.
Andy


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