# 2008 Shimano Shadow Derailleurs



## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

I like this new design. It moves the pivot point to under the rear cassette, and creates a lower profile against the derailleur hanger, which could potentially reduce the chance of damaging the derailleur from a side swipe.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

thats actually pretty cool. it looks like they may have tucked it in far enough that crashes on flatter ground wont necessarily bend the hanger either. hmmm


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

yup, now all you have to worry about is the actual mechanism getting caught up in the cassette :skep:


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

Why is it that the diagram I have is illustrated with a skewer lever on the shadow version, but not on the standard one???


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## Purple Liquid (Dec 6, 2005)

LyNx said:


> yup, now all you have to worry about is the actual mechanism getting caught up in the cassette :skep:


now that I look at it, a muddy ride and one leaf in the cassette... yeah :madman:


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## Baconman (Sep 28, 2004)

The cable housing comes in at a better angle - it's almost vertical instead of almost horizontal. That's a plus.


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## Dirtman (Jan 30, 2004)

Baconman said:


> The cable housing comes in at a better angle - it's almost vertical instead of almost horizontal. That's a plus.


Liking that:thumbsup:


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

I really like the XTR's Carbon long-cage option. I wish Sram's X-0 would offer a long-cage in carbon fb!!!!


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## Purple Liquid (Dec 6, 2005)

they do...


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

ooh yeah, the special edition for next years production run. I must have mistaken that for a med cage. Sweet :thumbsup:


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

got a shadow XT RD on the way.. let's see what all the fuzz is about


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## Bike Zen (Jul 14, 2006)

Had a chance to spend a weekend on the 08 system, it is *much* crisper shifting,
but there is a downside. I found that if you experience any rear flex at all, or your system is even slightly out of adjustment it will ghost shift on you. (My guess is this is due to the improved alignment and stiffness)
I guess this just means manufacturers will just have to man up and build better bikes


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Bike Zen said:


> Had a chance to spend a weekend on the 08 system, it is *much* crisper shifting,
> but there is a downside. I found that if you experience any rear flex at all, or your system is even slightly out of adjustment it will ghost shift on you. (My guess is this is due to the improved alignment and stiffness)
> I guess this just means manufacturers will just have to man up and build better bikes


cool... I will keep an eye out on the ghost shifting... I will only change the RD, since I have the 07 rapidFires... I don't feel like switching just for the "instant release".... I suppose the crisper shifting comes more from the stronger spring in the RD than any changes in the shifters... but let's wait and see... :thumbsup:


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

Post pics of the derailleur when it comes! BTW, pm me. I could use one too! $$$$$


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Intense5point5 said:


> Post pics of the derailleur when it comes! BTW, pm me. I could use one too! $$$$$


I will.... I am located in Germany though.... it might "kill the deal" if I was to ship it to you


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## CSPRINGS (Feb 11, 2004)

*Weaker Shadow Design...*

Soo sad....In effort to reduce weight (which is stupid as all derraileurs are already weak enough) this design will be much weaker than existing designs.

DONT BUY THE HYPE.... because if you do eventually the derailleur will last for just a few rides and will cost a ton.

PEACE


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

CSPRINGS said:


> Soo sad....In effort to reduce weight (which is stupid as all derraileurs are already weak enough) this design will be much weaker than existing designs.
> 
> DONT BUY THE HYPE.... because if you do eventually the derailleur will last for just a few rides and will cost a ton.
> 
> PEACE


let's see.. I haven't ever broken a shimano RD.. so let's see if I manage to break this one..


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah, progressive thinking by Shimano (The leading bike component manufacturer BTW.) has always had a positive effect on the industry. The fact that they are trying new things is wonderful, so I wouldn't be debating the durability of the dérailleur at this point. I don't think Shimano's new design is going to be based on saving weight. Don't start criticizing the design aspects seeing that you can't even spell dérailleur properly.


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## CSPRINGS (Feb 11, 2004)

*Stop the Maddness,,,*

Progressive perhaps, I wont get into a few of their engineering forays into the darkness. But perhaps one:

Hollowtech II cranks do no allow one to run the industry adopted chainline standard. END OF STORY...not to mention all their outboard bearing falilures with outboard bearings. Funny the inboard ones lasted forever - PLANNED OBSOLESENCE and ONESIZE FITS ALL has become all too popular with Sheeman-ohs latest incarnations.

1. I wasn't aware that Shamano was a leading parts maker, I have heard very little of this maker. Just how popular ARE they?

2. I ain't french so the spelling of der-railler is ir-relevant. Spilling is not important here conceptualizing is ..

3. CRISILLIO - I hope you dont have breakage problems and are happy with it. 
Keep us posted with your thoughts. PS if you speell something in an unconventional way - don't worry we are capable of figguring it out.

PEACE


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

Every designer and manufacturer runs into quality control problems, design flaws, and less than popular product releases. All done with hopes of hitting an untapped market or solving a problem that would allow their customers to benefit accordingly. On this particular thread, we're discussing the new Shadow dérailleur. not Hollowtech technology or outboard bearing failures (Which is also utilized by Truvativ, RaceFace, and Bontrager A.K.A GXP). That's another thread so please stay on topic, or don't say anything. Thanks.


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## Student Driver (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, to be fair, you did kind of open the door for him with the comment on how their progressive designs help the industry overall. 

Also, to be fair, Shimano's outboard bearings seem to work great if you use proper torque (which almost nobody does, since very few own them), and they are incredibly rigid laterally. The inboard units lasted forever due to users not being able to load them laterally with improper torque (and some companies used some cheap components).

With respect to the new derailleur, I wasn't sure that the SRAM unit was going to be so hot with the nylon cable feed and very little metal in the knuckle and pivots. They nylon was never an issue that I have seen, but I have heard and read several incidents with SRAM units getting sucked into wheels with a variety of problems. Now, will this be better or worse? I don't know, but I do dig the design so far. Hell, I knew people who didn't think index shifting was a great idea...


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

CSPRINGS said:


> 3. CRISILLIO - I hope you dont have breakage problems and are happy with it.
> Keep us posted with your thoughts.


thanks...Will do...



CSPRINGS said:


> PS if you speell something in an unconventional way - don't worry we are capable of figguring it out.


what?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Student Driver said:


> Also, to be fair, Shimano's outboard bearings seem to work great if you use proper torque (which almost nobody does, since very few own them), and they are incredibly rigid laterally. The inboard units lasted forever due to users not being able to load them laterally with improper torque (and some companies used some cheap components).


I agree with you on this... I just repack my 3 year old (yes, 3 years) shimano external bearings.... both cranks and bearings are still going strong..... I agree the older square taper BBs were fine.. but I love the ease of installation/cleanup on the external ones...


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

got my shadow!

Looking good! :thumbsup:


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

I agree with the above poster that the Shadow looks like it will jam quite nicely into the cassette. But, I've been wrong before.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Pisgah said:


> I agree with the above poster that the Shadow looks like it will jam quite nicely into the cassette. But, I've been wrong before.


so far so good... but only a couple of rides so far..

will post back on any issues...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Do a search on...*



crisillo said:


> let's see.. I haven't ever broken a shimano RD.. so let's see if I manage to break this one..


FUD or F.U.D

That's you

I've never broken a derailleur since I got back into cycling in 2000, and about 5000 miles of riding. I've broken exactly one derailleur hangar, which was my boneheadded fault for dropping my bike wrong on a rock during a rest break. I suppose if I was a freerider or DHer, I would break more derailleurs. If I were into FR or DH, I would get something beefier than this, like a Saint setup.

Oh, and I own two sets of HT2 cranks, and no failures after a couple thousand miles. Still buttery smooth, and after the break-in, next to no bearing drag. IMO, the instructions call for too much bearing preload, which is why they drag.

OTOH, My Octalink2 XT BB failed twice from crudded up bearings from riding in bad sandy conditions. I have a Octalink1 105 BB on my road bike with a thousand miles with no problems. I've had one ISIS BB failure in the six months I used ISIS.

The new derailleur looks pretty sweet. I can do without the molded XT logos. I wonder how many useless grams that adds. I prefer the silk screened logo of yore.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

pimpbot said:


> FUD or F.U.D
> 
> That's you
> 
> ...


I wonder why you say I am FUD..as I say that Shimano has never failed me... so why should it now...


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## SingleTrackLovr (Apr 25, 2007)

I think it looks Great and I can see many improvements over past models, for instance it looks like the cable angle/wear problem was resolved.

I would prefer a low normal model, wonder if they offer one?
Thanks for the picts, I look forward to future reports.
STL


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## thecrazyfinn (Apr 7, 2007)

CSPRINGS said:


> Progressive perhaps, I wont get into a few of their engineering forays into the darkness. But perhaps one:
> 
> Hollowtech II cranks do no allow one to run the industry adopted chainline standard. END OF STORY...not to mention all their outboard bearing falilures with outboard bearings. Funny the inboard ones lasted forever - PLANNED OBSOLESENCE and ONESIZE FITS ALL has become all too popular with Sheeman-ohs latest incarnations.
> 
> ...


Shimano owns around 80%+ of the market for drivetrain components (more for derailleurs, less for cranks). If you have heard little about Shimano, you haven't been paying any attention to the bike market since the mid 70's. Oh, the 47.5mm 'standard' chainline is a Shimano invention.

Also inboard bearings did not last. Square taper bearings did, but the spindles are too weak for the more aggressive riding that became common with the advent of long-travel dual suspension in the mid 90's (ironically Octalink originated due to the stiffness fetish in road riding). But octalink and ISIS BB's, which mostly solved the weak spindle issue by going to larger diameter (22mm instead of 17mm) tubular spindles, had greatly reduced bearing life (ISIS in particular, where bearing life is sometimes measured in weeks). External Bearing cranks increase the spindle strength yet again (going from 22mm to 24mm spindles) which is a win for Freeriding where even 22mm spindles can be regularly broken, and also have increased bearing life over the octalink and ISIS BB's, at least in dryer conditions (external bearing cranks do have some sealing issues). The downside is worsened Q factor, somewhat worse chainlines on 135mm rear spacing bikes, but improved chainlines on 150mm rear spacing downhill bikes. Note that 50mm chainlines predate external bearing cranks from Shimano, being one solution to clearance issues at the BB on FS bikes.

And poor spelling makes one come across as an ignorant git.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

SingleTrackLovr said:


> I think it looks Great and I can see many improvements over past models, for instance it looks like the cable angle/wear problem was resolved.
> 
> I would prefer a low normal model, wonder if they offer one?
> Thanks for the picts, I look forward to future reports.
> STL


:thumbsup:

the shadow only comes in high normal, but there is a low normal in the "standard" design


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## eric (Jan 22, 2004)

crisillo said:


> so far so good... but only a couple of rides so far..
> 
> will post back on any issues...


Any mud rides yet, Crisillo? (I assume your weather is just as bad as it is here a bit further to the west....  ) Kinda thinking about Dualcontrols w/ a 2008 shadow to replace my now very worn X.0 setup.....


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

eric said:


> Any mud rides yet, Crisillo? (I assume your weather is just as bad as it is here a bit further to the west....  ) Kinda thinking about Dualcontrols w/ a 2008 shadow to replace my now very worn X.0 setup.....


a bit, but not too much.... i don't notice the RD at all (which is a good thing).. I only had to adjust it a bit on the 1st ride, it was fine on the stand..but needed some fine tuning...afterwards..perfect!


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## eric (Jan 22, 2004)

Check. Thanks!


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## ickyickyptngzutboing (Mar 30, 2005)

Anymore updates on the Shadow?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

it plain works... I guess a component is good when it does its job and you don't notice it is there... this one is like that


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

I have one too. Isn't tucked quite was far in as I thought it would be. In every gear there is part of the derailleur past the QR nut, but it is still much farther in than a traditional derailleur, at least an inch maybe more. Shifts fine.


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## Student Driver (Jul 4, 2006)

How is the spring on it? Is it stiffer than the normal XTR to keep it from flopping around?


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm also interested to know whether the spring is stiffer? Some of the info I 've seen from Shimano suggests the new XT will have a stiffer spring for a harder, snappier shift quality.

I love the hard upshifts of SRAM but don't like the two thumb shifters. I love my 'dual release', 'instant release' XTR shifters except for the soft shift quality...


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

I haven't run XTR, but the shadow's spring feels a bit stronger than my 761 XT.... I read a post here..where somebody actually measured the spring strength of an XT shadow against a 6 month old x0 and the shadow was stronger (but it was a new against old thing...but still)

I'll see if I can find the post


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## Tinshield (Aug 1, 2007)

Shadow derailleurs do have more spring tension.


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## XC707 (Apr 13, 2005)

Purple Liquid said:


> now that I look at it, a muddy ride and one leaf in the cassette... yeah :madman:


i agree, it seems that the der. body is too close to the cogs, a slight bend will make contact


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## font9a (Jul 4, 2004)

*csprings: build a better derailleur and i will buy it*

right now XO is the way to go

EOM

cheers!

-- font9a


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

I wonder who owns XTR Shadow RD


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## CSPRINGS (Feb 11, 2004)

*Nice Pix...*

Crisillo,
Nice pix by the way.
Seeing in the flesh (nearly) it is a bit spooky just how close the der is to the k-9 teeth of the cassette!

I am hearing that under low gear cranking uphills the der tends to skip but this may be due to improper alignment/der adjustment with newly installed der.

Strength tests really require a full 6 months on old style der and 6 months on new der. Then placing each on a frame and see how much they flex by leaving chain off and simply twisting der with your hands watching how much the cages twist and flex due to pivot wear as well as metal fatigue. A couple months on any der and they are noticeable flexier than out of the box. If the der sits soo close to the cassette this might be a hazardous combination.

Put 6 months on it then compare it to the prior der and see how thay compare.
I do hope your cassette does not develop hunger for some Shadow puppets.

Keep us posted

CS


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## mattbikeboy (Jun 8, 2004)

I replaced my new X0/X9 SRAM system with the 2008 XT Shadow and 2008 XT triggers last week after an unfortunate run in with a rock or stump or something on the TRT. After three good rides I like it. Before my brief SRAM fiasco I ran 8½ years on an XTR 950 8-speed set-up. This new Shadow is crisp and shifts as nice as I can remember the XTR shifting --but 8 years is a long time! 

I'll give the Shadow derailleur two thumbs up. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

mbb


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## Intense5point5 (Jan 25, 2007)

I want Mattbikeboy's Race Face cranks...

NEXT LP = SEX


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## Student Driver (Jul 4, 2006)

To answer my own question; yes the XT Shadow's spring is much firmer than the XTR. I got one to replace the 07 XTR 952 that got trashed on Sunday.


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

2008 XTR Shadow is soo going to kick ass, I wonder when they will update their XTR Brake and DC lever with Servo-Wave?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

wheelhot said:


> 2008 XTR Shadow is soo going to kick ass, I wonder when they will update their XTR Brake and DC lever with Servo-Wave?


probably for 09 I suppose... or a "mid year" launch... gotta wait and see I guess...


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## mattbikeboy (Jun 8, 2004)

Intense5point5 said:


> I want Mattbikeboy's Race Face cranks...
> 
> NEXT LP = SEX


Did you see the photos of the new Raceface Next crankset shown at Interbike? Wowwwee!

mbb


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Not sure that XTR will get Servo wave. XTR is for XC and marathon racers who care for light weight and Servo Wave adds grams. I can see SAINT getting the servo wave treatment and a new 4 piston caliper later in 2008.
But for XTR, at least for now, there is no LOw Normal (rapid Rise) or Servo Wave in the pipeline.
XT is positioned as the All Mountain do everything group set. SAINT will be the heavy duty again and XTR remains for racers.

A huge pity that Shadow will not be rapid rise but I am nagging and thus far they have at least met one nag...
SHimano XTR wheels for Lefty....


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

I though there is a XTR Low Normal RD


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

wheelhot said:


> I though there is a XTR Low Normal RD


yep, the 970 is low normal (rapid rise) and the 971 is high normal


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

One concern is the width of the rear lower parallel link. Seems quite a bit narrower than the regular version and that's not going to be good for torsional stiffness, esp. over time. Same concern for the mounting plate-to-der. body connection.

And it's not going to flop around. I don't think anybody mentioned this, but the Shadows don't have a B-spring; they're just like SRAM, in that respect. They have a B-limit screw but can't move forward and slap the frame. I assume they went to a "dropout mount" look to skirt SRAM's patents. Reminds me of Alivio.

I'm a little more fond of SRAM's 1:1 cable pull, but the new XT is really nice.


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## Gunnar Westholm (Nov 2, 2005)

Is it likely that Saint will gett into the Shadow soon?


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh...its just a conspiracy to make the XTR look better im sure...he he he.

I just bought one of these and I get it on the new beast soon, end of DEC, so ill let you know if the lever is on or not...:thumbsup: 



Intense5point5 said:


> Why is it that the diagram I have is illustrated with a skewer lever on the shadow version, but not on the standard one???


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

I heard earlier on this year that SRAM was already developing this and would be bringing something like this out next year there abouts or sometime soon... They aparently already have a proto version of this...blinged out in the sram fashion so to speak.

hear no...see no...speak no...:thumbsup:



Gunnar Westholm said:


> Is it likely that Saint will gett into the Shadow soon?


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

It seems now the competitions copy each other, that if SRAM release the same concept as the Shadow


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## McLovin (Sep 7, 2007)

*That is one Sexy Shadow*

Just got mine. She'll be riding on a Titus Racer X which is fully guilded in 970 XTR. I'll post a report once she's up and running. It is much more solid than it looks. I've run XO (my wife still does) and this seems to be comparable in stiffness and spring strength, though possibly just slightly less. The XO is much beefier, but the XTR is much lighter. Initial impression is that it is a vast improvement over the already excellent previous generations of shimano derailleurs. My bread and butter was the M950 for years. The proof is in the pudding though so I'll report back after I give it a good workout.

One strange thing though. I think it's blue - and doesn't perfectly match the rest of the XTR line. :shocked:


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

maybe dark blue. Anyway, it look so sweet. How doest the carbon hanger feel compared to the X0. And Dang it look sexy


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## McLovin (Sep 7, 2007)

wheelhot said:


> maybe dark blue. Anyway, it look so sweet. How doest the carbon hanger feel compared to the X0. And Dang it look sexy


The XO i've dealt with was the metal long-cage so I don't think it's a fair comparison because those things are really, really beefy. However I will say that the carbon cage on this thing is waaaaaaay stiffer than it looks. There is absolutely no flex in the fore-aft direction, and laterally it seems as stiff as previous generations of XTR.


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## McLovin (Sep 7, 2007)

A couple more pictures. Sorry they kind of suck. The Shadow is Installed and ready to roll. Setup was dead easy. Clearance between the cassette and the derailleur is not an issue. This is an 11-34 tooth cassette and the pulley wheels are nicely spaced (i.e. there is proper separation) at each cog. Shifting is as smooth as you would expect from any shimano derailleur.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Yeah, yet that is nothing new though. Although, I would effort a guess that they would cabon-copy it spec for spec...it would be SRAM-med first IMHO.



wheelhot said:


> It seems now the competitions copy each other, that if SRAM release the same concept as the Shadow


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

McLovin...im LOVIN the xtr mate...

BUT...marketing really needs to get their info ripped on the colour though, I would say its just not working at present!!!!!


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

it seems the new XTR managed to prove that Shimano is still in the MTB business and are not planning to lose out yet


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

wheelhot said:


> it seems the new XTR managed to prove that Shimano is still in the MTB business and are not planning to lose out yet


EEEeeeh...:skep:

From my perception, they have quite a few VERY interesting projects yet to come...:idea:


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