# Cushiest ride?



## KevinGood (Mar 20, 2019)

I'm not quiiiiite 50+ yet, but because of some degenerative joint disease my ankles and elbows are those of a 90-year-old. So I feel like I've found the right forum. 

I had an ankle replaced a few years back. For a couple years I've been working on some road riding, getting some basic conditioning back. Last week I finally went for a trail ride for the first time in about a decade. It was super-fun, BUT... my poor joints. My elbows in particular are really struggling-- I think having a lot of weight on them while taking a lot of bumpy stuff is just rough. My ankles 'did OK'. But that just means they hurt like hell but not to a debilitating point.

My current ride is a ~2004 Specialized Epic full suspension. I've swapped the stock stem for something more upright/relaxed, and put a dropper post on (which wasn't really a thing back then). But otherwise it's stock and 26" wheels.

I'm thinking about picking up a new bike and I could use advice. Basically: the trend to 29'ers and + tires is really interesting to me because I'm pretty tall, and I just need a smooth ride. I will never race. I will never do anything really dangerous, e.g. big drops. And I don't really care how long it takes me to get up that hill so long as I can be out there and enjoy a trail and just ride.

So I'm thinking of going and trying out a Trek Full Stache... because... what could be plusher than a full suspension 29+, right? But I also like bikes with more relaxed (upright) posture, rather than an aggro racer, to take some of the strain off my elbows.

The problem is test riding a bike is so different than actually spending a couple hours on it and seeing what hurts. So I welcome any advice y'all have, particularly those nursing elbows & ankles. Let me know what you're riding/liking. I just want to enjoy some trails! Thanks in advance.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Fatter tires are not the answer, too much tire is just that; too much.

Find s bike that rides the way you want to ride, then buy it. I’d look at DW suspensions like Devinci/Pivot/Ibis, Trek Fuel EX, etc .. 

FYI: the Full Stache is a junk show, avoid at all costs.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

Not sure that + tires are too much. I've got 3 or 4 riding buddies that go like hell on plus bikes and love them. Also, OP check out:

https://forums.mtbr.com/fifty-years...nting-evidence-its-effectiveness-1027101.html


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

Just from my own test rides on real trails, the cushiest - though my NO means wallowy - bike I've ridden was a Lenz Behemoth with 29+ tires. The full suspension plus the rollover of 29 and extra damping of plus tires feels like you're floating over rocks while still being connected to the terrain. I love my Devinci and the Behemoth is the only thing I've ridden that I'd trade for.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

cushiest would be a 4 inch or more fat bike full suspension with 8psi

it'll take a week to go 5 miles

but it will be plush as hell


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

Another vote for Lenz. It's not that they are soft or too cushy in general, but the suspension can be tuned that way and they can be had with 29+ or even fat tires.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I disagree with plus bike not having a bit more cush. I have a pretty bad back mainly due to my pelvis being bolted on to my spine and I am really sensitive to repeated small hits. Big hits I can brace for but normal chatter really wears on me. I have really noticed that the low psi of plus tires can help to mute repeated small hits making long days in the saddle more enjoyable.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

KevinGiid... first off, I've not yet had to make any real consideration for increased comfort (knocking on wood now that I'm 58), however I do think about it because I know that day will come. But I've experimented for the fun of it on what I ride daily today (27.5 140/130 full suspension Whyte T-130 trail bike). I don't know what your current bike offers in suspension tweaking, or if you're considering bikes that have the flexibility to do what I did. One thing I did was (again, as an experiment) remove all volume spacers front and rear, and dropped from my usual 25% sag to 30+% sag. Since I was running with 4 and 3 spacers to begin with, removing them all was very noticeable, especially with the change in sag. Man, did that make for a smooth subtle ride on the smaller stuff. The small bumpy stuff pretty much smoothed out. And the bigger stuff, while still there, was much less abrupt. Now, would I ride with this config on fast big chunk? No. But then, at this point you may not being riding that sorta stuff. I didn't think it would work well on fast flow trail with 4' table tops... but... if landings are forward moving and not dead drops, it actually works well. Sweeping into fast high banked turns is a little off, as the suspension does compress a lot more. Surprisingly hardly any noticeable increase in bob during standing climbs. But that is attributed to rear suspension design, so your mileage will vary. 
The biggest negative impact was dropping down steep steps where the front end compressed to far making endo's a possibility. My point in this post is that there may be things you can do with you current bike, or any bike you may purchase, that can help your goal. None of this is new thought. After all, adjusting suspension is normal stuff for mountain biking, but tweaking suspension isn't normally to achieve what you're looking for, or what I was attempting to do in my experiment. 

By the way, I had recently developed a spur on a vertebrae in my neck, pinching a nerve. Hitting rough stuff was killing me (I refused to stop riding while I was healing, but what's that got to do with it  ). So I dropped the volume spacers again, and riding was manageable. 

I can see me doing this setup with a 150+ mm trail bike in my future  It'll be my version of a early '70's era Cadi on coil springs and worn out shocks...


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

I strongly believe that coil suspension is the cushiest. My previous bike had a Cane Creak DB coil shock and Marcocchi 66 ti coil fork, and the way I had it set up (very low preload and zero compression damping) it had a level of small bump compliance that no air spring could touch. I could ride over choppy stuff seated and the suspensions would just suck it all up. They are just so much more active than air. They don't make the 66 anymore, but there are a slew of new coil forks, and coil conversion kits out there.

That said, I've also learned that for most riders, this level of cush will hinder your skills, and that I was riding all wrong. So I wouldn't recommend Caddilac coil cush for everyone, but if your joints need it, I'd consider this.


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## KevinGood (Mar 20, 2019)

That's for the thoughts y'all. It's very helpful. And I know you joke about puttering along on a trail on a 4" fat bike at 8 PSI... but if that's what it takes to be able to ride I'm in. Just next time some younger-lookin' dude is out on the trail riding like a grandmother holding everyone up, just take it easy on me. I always do my best to let you whippersnappers through.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You don't need a fat bike for a comfortable ride.

The elbow pain will not be relieved by a fatter tire, but a properly fit bike, possibly a more upright position, that would certainly make a difference.

You should also look at ankle brakes and supportive shoes, maybe even wrist braces.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

It's true you don't need a fat bike for a comfortable ride, but you can get amazing comfort, versatility and speed from a full suspension fatty like the Mutz. 
I've run 26x4, 27.5x3 and set up currently with 27.5x3.8. The Foes rear end with a DVO shock can be set up for any users preference. May not be the fastest bike I own, but it sure is the funnest and most plush.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Mutz is a fun bike, I've had a few of them, just kinda heavy and the geo is not very progressive. Probably too much bike for the OP.

I'd steer folks asking about plush ride toward a 27+ bike like the Specialized Full Six Fat.



Hobine said:


> It's true you don't need a fat bike for a comfortable ride, but you can get amazing comfort, versatility and speed from a full suspension fatty like the Mutz.
> I've run 26x4, 27.5x3 and set up currently with 27.5x3.8. The Foes rear end with a DVO shock can be set up for any users preference. May not be the fastest bike I own, but it sure is the funnest and most plush.


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## escrowdog (Oct 26, 2018)

funkle said:


> I strongly believe that coil suspension is the cushiest. My previous bike had a Cane Creak DB coil shock and Marcocchi 66 ti coil fork, and the way I had it set up (very low preload and zero compression damping) it had a level of small bump compliance that no air spring could touch. I could ride over choppy stuff seated and the suspensions would just suck it all up. They are just so much more active than air. They don't make the 66 anymore, but there are a slew of new coil forks, and coil conversion kits out there.
> 
> That said, I've also learned that for most riders, this level of cush will hinder your skills, and that I was riding all wrong. So I wouldn't recommend Caddilac coil cush for everyone, but if your joints need it, I'd consider this.


I'm with you on coil suspension. I ride a 2018 Jeffsy 27.5 AL. We ride a lot of embedded rock trails, chattery and just annoying and sometimes brutal after 2 or 3 hours. I played with the stock Rhythm fork and Evol shock, and made things better. I got a deal on a Rockshox super deluxe air shock and added that, much better. Then found another great deal on an MRP Ribbon coil fork. Coil is unbelievable! I also ditched the stock Highroller II tires and went 2.6 DHF and Aggressor running 13-14 front and 16 rear. Keeping my eyes peeled for a super deluxe coil or DHX2, but I'm pretty happy where I'm at. I'm 200 lbs without gear. All that said, I agree with your statement about not everyone needing that level of cush. I feel like I'm still testing the limits of "how soft is too soft" and I think I'm there. I'm running the medium/middle spring on the fork and took off the last of the preload the other day...it is BUTTER, but definitely less poppy and washed the front a few times. I'm probably riding all wrong too...LOL. But man it feels great to crush through rough ass section or watch the front wheel glued to the ground on a rocky/rooty climb!

To the OP...get on a modern bike with some progressive rear suspension. You're probably not going to find a bike with coil stuff stock unless you PAY. So maybe start with a new bike, setup the air shocks soft, get some 2.6 to 2.8 rubber, run low pressure and you might just find some magic. Then look for used coil upgrades. OR just order from a company like Gorilla Gravity and get exactly what you want on your new bike and pony up the $$.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I'm not quite as far along the degenerative path as the OP, but I still feel beat to crap if I ride anything shy of 3" tires.

After riding 29+ the past few years, I just built a new one of these (below).

Setup is everything, including being very pernickety about position, suspension and tires.

Full Stache is a very comfy bike and I enjoyed the one I had, but I wouldn't go back to it after riding this.

Signed, 

A guy that's delaying bilateral sub talar fusion as long as possible.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Is that a new Fatillac B Fat?

Wut happened to 29+?



mikesee said:


> I'm not quite as far along the degenerative path as the OP, but I still feel beat to crap if I ride anything shy of 3" tires.
> 
> After riding 29+ the past few years, I just built a new one of these (below).
> 
> ...


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> Is that a new Fatillac B Fat?
> 
> Wut happened to 29+?


It's an old one. Just haven't gotten many pics of the new one yet.

I have a second set of wheels with 29 x 2.8" tires that I swap in as needed. Which is not very often.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So for the OP's benefits, the absolute most capable and cushy bike of all time: Fatillac BFat.

I did epic rides on my Fatillac, twenty plus miles with tons of climbing and tech, it was not only doable, but very enjoyable.

Not a cheap ride and not quick, gotta wait a bit for Devin to get it built, but a very nice option.

Pretty cool you can run 29+.


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## wooly88 (Sep 1, 2009)

The cushiest but still really fun ride I’ve had is the Pivot Mach 5.5. It comes spec with 2.6 tires which aren’t quite plus size but still provide great traction and a plush ride and the DW Link suspension is really plush too.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I suggest delaying the gratification and trying lots of bikes. Our modern trail bikes feel MUCH better than our Specialized of same vintage as the OPs. Rent bikes and do demos when you can be on the trails. Make sure the suspension and tires are set right for your weight.

My proximity to a giant in the industry and relationship with staff let me see the plus and larger 29 tires coming. I'd want the plus or full Stache for one place near me that's steep greased sharp rock and for some riding I encountered in western CO but more and more love the not too much travel modern trail bikes with larger all around 29r tires. My bike with reverse mullet Pike doesn't feel like too much for cross country riding yet it handled true mountain and resort riding.

When you test the bikes consider how some rear suspension designs are stiffer when you pedal. You might really like that as some of my friends do or you might like a horst-type that is more plush but does a super job of keeping that rear wheel sticking to the ground. I ended up liking Trek's "Reaktiv" shocks and braking pivot as having best of both worlds. There are many great bikes these days. 

Also consider the diminishing returns as you spend. We have two pretty much same model bikes with the plastic and recycled beer can frames. They're both good. My son and I seem able to break an high end and mid grade part with the same ease. 

A dear friend who's been riding dual suspension fat and plus just got a modern shorter travel trail bike and seems to agree with why I think that category is so great. He loves his heavy duty bike but keeps saying he likes how playful and friendly the modern trail bike is. 

Moving to flat pedals, sticky shoes and comfy knee guards has also been an important age/comfy/safety move.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bitflogger said:


> Moving to flat pedals, sticky shoes and comfy knee guards has also been an important age/comfy/safety move.


This ^, also good thinking on the short travel trail bikes.


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## pitdaddy (Aug 6, 2013)

My full suspension bike will go 29" or 27.5+. (It's a Santa Cruz Tallboy.) The past two winters I've ran the plus tires. Come springtime the 29" wheels go back on. Yes, it does smooth things out. HOWEVER, where I live we have a lot of "chunk" or "chatter"- tree roots & rocks. I have found that while plus tires smooth things out they also slow me down thru the chatter. Because of that it's taking more effort to turn (pedal) those cushy tires and get over some of those roots and rocks. By then end of the ride my legs are tired.

Swapping wheelsets and going back to standard 29" wheels all of a sudden I find myself flying! Do I feel the chatter? Yes. But I'm not putting forth the effort to pedal like before.

My conclusion- plus tires do smooth things out. Plus tires require more effort to get rolling. If you have good smooth flowing trails plus is nice.

Glad to hear you are determined to ride!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I am a 61 yo light weight and i enjoy my 27.5x3.0.
I kind of agree that 29x3.0 is too much but it is personnal.
Before buying this + bike a nice guy loaned me his for 75 min so i knew the accelerations are not the same so i kept my 29 and can choose as i please.


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## mtfun4bill (Jun 13, 2017)

I am looking to get the lightest cushy ride. The Ripmo seems like the best of both worlds, but I am confused about the description, many describe the ride as cloud like and supple, while others describe it as not plush and aggressive. I am confused by the descriptions. 

I have test ridden a couple, 2 rides were very stiff, the 3rd ride was poppy and fun. I tried adjusting the shocks for each ride, but ended up with this.

Anyone have any experience with the Ripmo ride, or other suggested bikes?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

mtfun4bill said:


> I am looking to get the lightest cushy ride. The Ripmo seems like the best of both worlds, but I am confused about the description, many describe the ride as cloud like and supple, while others describe it as not plush and aggressive. I am confused by the descriptions.
> 
> I have test ridden a couple, 2 rides were very stiff, the 3rd ride was poppy and fun. I tried adjusting the shocks for each ride, but ended up with this.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with the Ripmo ride, or other suggested bikes?


I think you have to understand.
- I have a 21 pounds HT.
- some have a FS fatbike, maybe 36 pounds.
One is light, the other is cushy.
In the middle maybe a 27.5+ FS would suit what you want.
What do you ride now? And the problem is the weight? The comfort?
Sometimes just a good guy will hit the sweet spot with your suspension and
the bike you ride is the bike you want.
My HT 120 27.5+ was not set properly even if i asked to be adjusted mentioning my weight when i bought it.
Now with less air i love it. Also i learned 13 PSI is what i need, when i started i had to much PSI. Do you have back problems? Do you use a padded saddle? Is the problem your wrists? Elbows?


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## mtfun4bill (Jun 13, 2017)

33red said:


> I think you have to understand.
> - I have a 21 pounds HT.
> - some have a FS fatbike, maybe 36 pounds.
> One is light, the other is cushy.
> ...


I am currently riding a 2013 Santa Cruz Tallboy Lt, around 26 lbs. I have a good saddle. But, I have a bad back. Looking for a 29" bike with more plush ride that does not require lots of extra weight. Tried a Ripmo and Megatower. The Megatower just seems like too much weight, but had a nice ride. The Ripmo, was less weight, but was not sure if the stiffer ride was the result of the bike set up or the design .


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Tire pressure is one of the biggest contributors to plushness there is. Tire compression can add >50mm to travel and at the right pressures will absorb the fast chattery stuff that the suspension can't react to. Keep trying lower and lower pressure until you start to experience adverse effects like rim strikes or the tire rolling on the rim when cornering. Once you get to the sweet spot, a psi or two will make a big diff. I'm 175 and generally run 14 front and 16 rear on 2.4 tires on 29 iw rims. I'll dial it up a few psi from there depending on conditions. You need a gauge with enough precision and resolution to reproducibly set pressures that low. I use a 30 psi Meiser Accugage.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

My experience is last 3 months on HT 120 mm, 40 mm 27.5x3.0/2.8. I was lucky this is a great match for me. About 27 pounds(without a dropper) Alu, affordable.
Something like that maybe in 29 might be for you. If need be, adding a thudbuster might help. Like Lone Rager said after finding the sweat spot for my fork, i found the proper PSI and finally i went from 175 arms to 165. For me this is a sweet ride. Light, simple, affordable, low maintenance.


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## Kitty13 (Jun 7, 2016)

Cush Core inserts might help (?).


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Delay gratification and try lots of stuff. 

Degenerative disk disease, arthritis in the family, and a permanently bad shoulder has me sensitive to the comfort issue but it doesn't mean I always want to ride my fat bike. The right wide 29r rims with 2.5 - 2.6 tires give you some extra traction without feeling heavy or slow the way plus and fatties do.

If you are coming from an older bike make sure you get used to axle height if bigger wheels and make sure you get a dropper. I get some more old guy comfort comfy and less hurt myself with sticky flat shoes and modern convex thin pedals so try that too.

Be careful about too much fixation on brand and suspension design. I tried and rented a lot of stuff before my last purchase. I've done resort rentals. I'm a ski area director with programs, lessons and teams that bring manufacturer demos so ride more stuff that way. Two bike manufacturers use the facility. With all that, the honest truth is most all well known bike makers have good stuff. Try it yourself.

I'll offer this from an old guy sensitive to pain. There are nine off road bikes from 5 brands in my garage shared by 4 and 3 different wheel sizes. The bike engine is more important than the parts, and with much choice I usually go for a modern 29r with a dropper. Dealing with chronic pain is more about keeping at it and good diet than anything else.

Good luck.


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