# Trek 3500 upgrading ideas...stupid?



## Metol (May 9, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out if I'll be throwing money in the toilet if I upgrade our 2011 Trek 3500 size xs (13.5 inch). I bought it new last year for my 12-year-old and I'm pretty sure he'll outgrow it sometime next year. As in the past, the plan is to hand it down to my daughter (she's 10) who will be tall enough in a year or two to ride it. So in total, the bike would be in service for a minimum of 4 years (and possibly much longer if my daughter doesn't grow much). 

It's Trek's lowest end mtb and all components are cheap and heavy (but work great). I recently changed the crankset to a cheap Acera one with lower gear ratios for easier climbing.

My son is not very interested in mtb so he probably wouldn't care about upgrading. However, my daughter really enjoys coming to local trails with me whenever she can so I've been thinking about building or buying a nice bike for her in near future anyway. We do single track and small drops & jumps. 

I'm beginning to make a plan like the following:

Wheels: I found a set of lightweight wheels for a very good price. 

Brakes: The stock 3500 is set up with v-brakes but the new wheels are for disk brakes. So I'll need new front and rear disk brakes.

Cassette: Since the stock rear sprockets are freewheel (threaded) type so I need a new cassette to match the cassette free hub of the new wheels. I'm thinking about 10 speed 11-36t or something.

Derailleurs & shifters: With the change in the cassette comes a new 10 speed rear derailleur. I'll have to replace the front derailleur too because I'm thinking about setting it up in 2x10.

Fork: The stock SR Suntour is worse than a pogo stick. Rock Shox Recon 100mm, maybe?

Does this plan make any economic sense? Except for the frame, I have a feeling that the finished bike would be better speced than the xc/trail hard tail offerings at around $1000, my estimate for the upgrading cost. The problem in buying a used bike is that it's a bit of challenge to find a frame in xs size. What do you all think?


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## Pakpal73 (Aug 17, 2011)

No not stupid, I would leave the front derailleur as is though and just go 9 in the back. Keep the parts and put them back on when you need to get a larger frame and sell the old bike.


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## solidfish (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm interested in how this comes as I was considering a similar project.


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## codyh12345 (Sep 15, 2011)

Does the 3500 even have disc brake mounting locations on the fork and rear triangle? I know when I had one it didn't. May wanna check on that before you spend much more money. You may not even be able to use those wheels.


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## Metol (May 9, 2012)

Well, it's kind of too late...

Before I began parts hunting, I looked at major brands' 13 or 13.5 inch offerings in the $1000-$1300 range (the expected cost of the planned upgrades + the original bike cost). I was not too impressed. I also realized that decent hardtail bikes are sold mostly in 29ers, not a great option for a 5' tall girl (in a year or two..currently 4'8"). Weight is very important because she is not strongly built.

So I reasoned that building up this 3500 bike and making it lighter wouldn't be too bad of an idea. If the frame breaks, we can always replace it with one of these affordable frames (Leader, Nashbar, Sette, etc.).

So far we've made the following progress. The disc conversion wasn't too difficult. My LBS had a Gary Fisher mount adapter that fits the rear dropout perfectly.

Frame: Trek 3500 13"
Fork: Fox F100 RL
Headset: stock
Wheels: Specialized Roval Control AL
Tires: Nashbar Nenor Traction
Tubes: tubeless
Brakes: Shimano SLX M666 
Rotors: Alligator Wind Cutter
F. Derailleur: stock Shimano Tourney 
R. Derailleur: SRAM X9 Long Cage 9 speed
Shifters: SRAM X7 3x9
Cassette: SRAM PG-980 11-34
Crankset: Shimano Acera 22-32-42
BB: stock
Pedals: stock aluminum
Chain: SRAM PC-971 SP
Handlebar: Answer Protaper Riser Carbon 
Grips: Specialized lock-on from my Stumpjumper
Stem: Soma Shotwell 80mm
Seatpost: stock
Seat: stock

Sorry I can't post the picture because of my post counts.

So far $900 has gone into this bike, which is more than the upper limit of a kid's bike budget I can justify but I wanted to make it as light as possible. It weighs 25.7lb (including a bottle cage and a kick stand), down by 5lb from the stock weight. My daughter and I went for a short 3 mile ride with this new setup on a nearby single track today. She was very happy with the way the bike climbed. The frame is still a bit too big for her but she managed reasonably challenging climbs and descents at least as good as when she is on her regular 24" wheel bike. I think this bike will serve her very well for the next 2-3 years!

Wait, this Trek is *my son's bike* and now we've transformed it into a reasonably expensive bike....We'll have to sort out who is going to ride which bike and when.


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## nmilsaps (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm thinking of upgrading my girlfriend's Trek 3500. It's a tank. It seems to weigh a ton compared to my bike.
So basically switch out every part for some weight savings.... 
Do you know what some of the best upgrades were to save some weight?


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## lcdd (Apr 5, 2009)

I upgraded my wife's old trek for my daughter. normally wheels is where to lose the most weight but I didn't want to put $ into new v brake wheels. I changed the saddle, seatpost, handlebar, stem (from a quill) and dropped some weight -don't remember the exact amount though.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Good to know someone else did this conversion as well. Was just thinking about doing this to my sons 2013 Trek 3500. I did do the fork last year. I picked up an older SID Race Dual Air for $150 and that dropped 2.5 lbs alone on the bike. Doesn't have lockout though. Even after that upgrade the bike still weighs 29 lbs though. See if I can get it down to under 26. It is a 15.5" frame.

Need to find that disc brake adapter for the rear brake. I suppose the only option is mechanical disc brakes. Doesn't look like I can get hoses running to the back unless I zip tie them to the frame.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

nmilsaps said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my girlfriend's Trek 3500. It's a tank. It seems to weigh a ton compared to my bike.
> So basically switch out every part for some weight savings....
> Do you know what some of the best upgrades were to save some weight?


The best upgrade for a Trek 3xxx series bike is to replace the frame with any 4xxx series. This will drop a few pounds and reduce the harshness of the ride. The OP found the gears a bit too tall because the 3xxx series bikes are not really intended for xc trails. As a low-end (for trek) entry bike, they are meant to be used on bike paths and trails through relatively flat fields.

You can lighten up the 3500 and she will enjoy it as long as you don't let her ride your bike. After all is said and done, though, replacing the 3500 with a 4xxx bike will be a cheaper route, and she will have a better ride.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Flamingtaco said:


> The best upgrade for a Trek 3xxx series bike is to replace the frame with any 4xxx series. This will drop a few pounds and reduce the harshness of the ride.


Then you might as well spend a few hundred on one of those cheap Chinese Carbon frames.


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## Metol (May 9, 2012)

Flamingtaco said:


> The best upgrade for a Trek 3xxx series bike is to replace the frame with any 4xxx series. This will drop a few pounds and reduce the harshness of the ride.


At 3.5 lb on a 13.5" frame, the 3500 frame wasn't actually too heavy.

To those who are thinking about upgrading the 3500 (or any entry-level bikes), the only reason I did this upgrade was because I couldn't find a bike in XS size with specs I wanted and at the price point I was willing to spend. You'd be better off starting out with a better frame if you are planning to spend more than a few hundred dollars on the 3500.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Totally agree with your Metol. The cheapest weight savings for me so far was that fork upgrade. I spent $150 on that older used SID and that shaved off well over 2lbs. Having a hard time justifying any weight savings with wheels. The stock wheel set that came with the bike is 2108 grams and that includes the skewer. Having a hard time finding a good price point on saving a pound with the wheel set. Only problem with the stock wheels is upgrading to different gearing and to disc brakes. Need new wheel set or hubs to do that.

I haven't completely broken down my sons bike to find out what his 15.5" frame weighs. Have not bought the tool yet to remove the cranks. I do really want to change this out to a 2x9 or 2x10 for him before the end of the race season.


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## Metol (May 9, 2012)

Stock tires on the 3500 are solid rubber. You can easily shave off 500-600 grams by putting on xc tires. The stock handlebars weight more than 1 lb. Another area you can save a lot of weight is the crank. The original crankset and BB together weigh close to 1300 grams. I got a great deal on an XT crankset and now the bike is down to 24 lb.

The extent of upgrades on the 3500 bike really depends on your willingness to upgrade the wheelset. If your son's 3500 is like our son's, the rear hub does not have the disc rotor mount and is also a freewheel hub which is not compatible with cassettes. So the bike needs a new wheelset in order to use disc brakes and run a 2x9 or 2x10 drivetrain. The fact that we were able to acquire a 1600 gram wheelset for $120 was the deciding factor for us.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Was typing a reply just as you posted so now I have to change my reply.

You read my mind about the wheelset. I figure that has to be the first thing decided on. I can't believe you found a 1600 gram wheelset for $120. That is the deal of a lifetime unless you look at this one. 2970 grams with TIRES.
Crank Brothers Cobalt UST Tubeless Mountain Wheelset with Tires Blue - Wheels - Mountain
But they are sold out now and that is a smoking deal on those wheels.

So I am trying to decide on these wheelsets but I think all of them are not tubeless ready but I could put a Stan's Kit on them.
Xero Wheel Pair Mtn Shawla 202D 26 8/9S Black - Wheels - Mountain
Sun Ringle Ryde Comp 26" Disc Mountain Bike Wheelset MY12 Black - Wheels - Mountain
I am leaning towards this one but I am not sure about using the Center Lock.
Shimano WH-MT15 QR Centerlock Wheelset | Shimano | Brand | www.PricePoint.com

I weighed his tires and tubes last year when I bought the bike.
Front
Tire 851 grams.
Tube 171 grams
Rear
Tire 869 grams
Tube 175 grams

So that is about 4.5lbs in tire and tube weight.
I use Racing Ralphs on my bike and those weigh in at 535 grams per Schwalbe's website. So yeah if I could get UST rims and go with a better tire I could easily save 2 lbs!!!!

If you got a lead on some light weight tubeless ready wheel sets let me know.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Guess I will add these two wheel sets.
Bontrager Race Lite.
Bontrager Race Lite MTB Wheel Set 26" Tubeless 6 Bolt Disc 9mm QR | eBay
WTB ST i19 TCS Shimano Deore 26 
WTB St I19 TCS Shimano Deore 26" MTB Tubeless Compatible Wheelset CL Disc Black | eBay


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Metol said:


> I got a great deal on an XT crankset and now the bike is down to 24 lb.


I assume you had to change out the BB to use that crankset?


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Metol said:


> Brakes: Shimano SLX M666


Are those hydraulic? If so how did you run the brake hose to the rear?
The bike is really setup for cable guides and the hoses won't fit into those cable guides underneath the top tube.


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## Metol (May 9, 2012)

Squashman said:


> I assume you had to change out the BB to use that crankset?


That's right. The weight saving from the crank and BB was about 215g EACH for a total of -430g.



Squashman said:


> Are those hydraulic? If so how did you run the brake hose to the rear?
> The bike is really setup for cable guides and the hoses won't fit into those cable guides underneath the top tube.


Zip ties.

As for the wheels, you should pay attention to the rim weight more than to the total wheel weight because the weight of the parts located farther away from the rotational axis (hub) has much greater effects on rotational inertia which affects climbing and acceleration. How about going the custom wheel route? You can know exactly how much each wheel component weighs. I've seen many good reviews about Merlin Cycles. You should be able to build a nice wheelset using lightweight rims and lightweight spokes/nipples under $300. 
Rear Handbuilt Shimano & DT Wheels - 26" - Disc | Merlin Cycles


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Hi Metol.
Looking at these handlebars. What do you think of these?
Easton EC90 SL 635mm Low Rise Bar 2012 | Easton
Going to assume I will have to change out the stem to use this handle bar as well as the Trek website says the 2013 3500 has a 25.4 stem.


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

Hey guys,

I bought my 3500 not knowing how much I would get into mountain biking, and it didn't take long before I became addicted and started tinkering. I haven't been upgrading for weight, but rather performance and reliability. Here is what I have done so far:

Fox Float 32 forks w/120 mm travel (used)
Cane Creek 40 headset
Spank ***** Stick handlebars
Avid Elixir 1 brakes (disc were already on the bike)
Kindshock Dropper seatpost
Bontrager Racelite Plus lock on grips

I don't remember how much, but I know the forks were a significant weight drop as well as the best upgrade so far. All in all these upgrades have made the bike worlds better, and I am currently trying to decide what to upgrade next. I love my 3500 though, and more with each upgrade!


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Well if you still have the stock tires on the bike you can save a ton of weight and get better performance for about $45 a tire. I put Rocket Ron's on my son's bike. The stock tires weighed 869 grams each. The Rocket Ron's weigh 480 grams.


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion! Are those tubeless? We just moved to Idaho this year and I am having tire issues, so I was thinking of going tubeless. They are supposed to be lighter and tougher, or so I am told.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

If you buy the Evolution line then yes it is Tubless ready. I bought the performance line which is not.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

I have my son's bike down to 26 lbs 9oz.
So far I changed the Fork, Handlebars, stem and tires.
I just got a smokin deal on X9 components so that will be going on the bike shortly.
Also order some Avid BB7 brakes. Yes they are mechanical but they are the best mechanical brakes you can get. I will be changing out the wheels. So basically the only original parts that will be left on the bike is the frame and seat.

After two years he has pretty much out grown this frame so all I need to do if find him a bigger frame for next year and then maybe I will put him on a 29er after that.


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

I will have to weigh my bike now, you've got me curious about how much it weighs. 

I was actually planning on buying BB7 brakes until my wife surprised me with the Elixir 1s for my birthday. It won't be long though and the only thing original left on my bike will be the frame too. I don't think I will be moving up in size though, I am happy with 26".

I am glad I started with a beginner bike though. It's fun to "build" it myself, I am learning a lot, and I know the what and why for everything on my bike


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

My bike weighs 30+ lbs. Wow, I had no idea it still weighed that much. I wonder how much it weighed stock? I had never weighed it at all. Anybody have any idea how much a stock 19" Trek 3500 Disc weighs?


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

My son's 16 inch was 32lbs stock. I am kind of surprised you haven't dropped more weight. The stock fork is over 5.5 lbs. When I put on the SID fork it was over a 2lbs savings. Just the few things I changed has saved over 5 pounds and those were easy things to change. Did you go carbon on the handlebar?


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

No, I didn't go carbon. If I remeber right though, my new bar is lighter than the old. But my dropper seat post is heavier than the stock seat post.what I am wondering is how the weight of hydraulic brakes compare to mechanical? Did the hose, plus bigger calipers and rotors add weight? I also had to buy separate shimano shifters to add the brakes and didn't check the weight on those. Either way, I am actually trying to balance performance & reliability with price with my build, so weight is usually more of a tie-breaker for me.


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

I am definitely going to check on new wheels and tires though. That's one place I could probably dramatically improve performance and save weight


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Webfoot said:


> Cane Creek 40 headset


Did you replace the headset yourself?
Thinking about replacing the headset as well.
There are a lot of series 40 headsets. Which sub-model did you get?


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

I got the EC34. I didn't replace it myself though. I was thinking about it, but when I compared the price of the equipment with how often I thought I would replace a headset it wasn't worth it. It was well worth it though. The stock one wasn't sealed and you could hear the dirt and grime in the bearing. The Cane Creek is as smooth as butter.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

I just wanted to give a quick update. I got my son's Trek 3500 down to 24 lbs 5 oz. I don't think you can possibly go any lighter on this bike. I am going to update with some pictures this week and a full list of what parts I bought and how much I paid.


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## Webfoot (Jul 27, 2014)

Coo. I'll be interested to see all the parts you used.


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## krisr01 (Dec 14, 2014)

hey guys, my 3500 is stock. As far a cranksets derilurs and cassetes go i've been looking at the Shimano SLX. Price is pretty steep. If anyone can help me out finding a cheaper but great solution. right now i am not worried about the fork, it hs treated me right over the past 3 years. but if you find anything useful, reply


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

The fork is one of the better options to drop weight as is the tires, handlebars and stem.
I got lucky just searching ebay and a lot of the closeout deals on the web.
I have an entire Trek3500 Weight Weenie video series on Youtube.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I feel like, for $1000 there are some pretty good hardtails you canbget used.
Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming | ksl.com


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## krisr01 (Dec 14, 2014)

I really dont care about weight to be quite honest, right now that is. but i have a small budget, and i need some good gears.


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Well if you are going to change the drive train, you will also have to change the wheels or at the very least the rear wheel. The hub on the rear wheel of the Trek 3500 is a freewheel. It is not setup for a cassette. This also means changing out the shifter and brake levers as that is a one piece component on the Trek 3500. At least it was on my Son's bike. You are going to be spending a lot more money than you think after all is said an done.

Including the price of the bike I spent around $1400 on my sons bike. Now a lot of people will say they could buy a decent bike for that price I won't disagree with them. But the bike they buy for $1400 is going to still weigh close to 30lbs while my sons weighs in at 24lbs 6oz. Now all I have to do is buy a cheap chinese carbon frame for $300 and I will have two bikes again. Which is what I plan on doing this winter as he now needs a larger size frame. The aluminum frame on the 3500 is heavy. I am betting that I will have the bike down to just under 22lbs after the frame upgrade.

You may just be better off buying a decent used bike.


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## krisr01 (Dec 14, 2014)

I understand all of that, right now i need drivetrain and the whole gammit too. dont care bout weight. just a decent used setup please!!


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

The best I can tell you is too search eBay and look at the deals on BikeWagon and PricePoint.
I think I actually picked up my crankset on Amazon.


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## krisr01 (Dec 14, 2014)

Right, i understand, but is there a specific model i should buy as far as drivetrain?


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## Squashman (Jul 7, 2013)

Depends on your budget.


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## lothian1 (Jun 18, 2020)

Squashman said:


> ...i posted a four-part series on YouTube called "Trek 3500 Weight Weenie"


just watched your videos for this bike. i'm glad you didn't delete them from YouTube! thanks! very helpful. (i noticed you disabled comments--probably due to too many jerks posting helpful remarks like "for what you spent in parts you could have bought better bike"... y'know, just like some people who post similarly useless comments in _this_ thread.)

i just bought a used Trek 3500 for $150 in great condition and completely trail worthy. nonetheless, considering how much i paid, i'd like to learn what components are contenders for upgrade. saddle and petals are first. the shimano tourney derailleurs are likely next, so what should i consider? next will be the brakes. (the fork will be last, if ever.)


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Just ten days from six years ago when I last posted to this thread. You should have DM'd Squashman.

If the shifters and derailleurs work, you should upgrade brakes first. Just like with cars, stopping power before going power.

'Trail worthy' is subjective, although as many people call a path worn through a groomed field in a park a trail, I suppose it works. Keep in mind, the 3 frames aren't just a heavier version of the 4 frames. The tubing is different, the joints are different, and they are not intended to be used for air time. The frames will not hold up to extensive riding of the rocky-rooty type like the 4 frames.


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## lothian1 (Jun 18, 2020)

Flamingtaco said:


> "DM'd Squashman ...upgrade brakes first ...trail worthy


i have no idea what _DM'd_ means... or, for that matter, what you meant.

_brakes_. absolutely...brakes first! i will not upgrade _anything_ before i upgrade the brakes! i'm gonna get on those brakes immediately ...right after i buy a new saddle and petals. care to recommend make and model brakes?

by _trail worthy_ i mean this bike rides awesome over "rails-to-trails" type trails, and also the trails you can push a wheelchair with all-terrain tires over; trails where you shout at rollerbladers "on yer left"; trails with bridges made by eagle scouts; trails whose bumpy bits alternate between tree roots and gravel and fragmented macadam. this bike handles 'em all like butter. go figure, right?

awesome this bike is, i want to upgrade a few bits of it. for now, gotta focus on those brakes... ooo! bontrager saddles and petals are on sale on Amazon!


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