# Navigation systems in use?



## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Curious as to the usage, pros/cons of GPS (eTrex 30, etc) vs GPS computer (1030, etc) vs app (GAIA, etc) vs paper maps for singletrack bikepacking.

Compare & contrast!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've mainly used a Garmin Etrex 30 for bikepacking. They are rugged, cheap, reliable, low power use and easy to mount on my bars.

I have carried paper maps occasionally to supplement the GPS. In the backcountry I don't carry a smartphone. If I am touring in built up areas I'll carry my phone to stay in touch with my GF and sometimes work.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Tools depend on the outing. Some routes have excellent paper maps available.

I've used iPhone GPS apps like Gaia and Motion-X, also specific route apps like the AZT app. Good performance from the GPS apps, but power hungry. AZT app, not so much. (Note: Smartphones' GPS function still works when in airplane mode.) Since a smartphone (and PLB, usually paper maps too) are BP staples for me, I've been working on eliminating the dedicated GPS altogether. Too much overlap. I don't carry a music player or camera for the same reason.

I dislike mounting devices on my bars, but admit that the cheap iPhone mount I got worked great even on rowdy ST.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

eTrex 30 with my phone as a backup.
Sometimes when I am in the mountains scouting out new locaitons, I will load up some maps onto my tablet and take that along.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for the replies!

I tried my iPhone on a very tough bar mount. The battery didn’t last, and it was unreadable in bright sunshine. I’m liking the eTrex with phone app and paper map backup.

So... which eTrex?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I downloaded the map tiles for my whole region to a micro SD card, so I can run BW Nav Pro in airplane mode. The Etrex 30 is great too, easier to use while riding.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

eTrex 30
Pros: simple; long battery life, swap out AAs during longer rides as needed.
OSM topo maps for your region may have details on specific trails; overlaying TrailForks maps can fill in the missing details.

Cons: the base map provided by Garmin sucks and is largely non-routable, so if you need to improvise (e.g. bail out) in the middle of a ride and take streets/highways, you may struggle to create a route on the fly and instead be stuck with using the base map simply as a map (which sucks from nav point of view, but is better than nothing). Spend some time researching which map(s) is best for your area/needs and load those well ahead of time.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Anyone using an eTrex Touch? Or purchased from the Garmin Factory Outlet Store?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i use etrex for bomber and gaia for back up, or on less 'planned' use of nav. both are great...


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## jamatt (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used Mountain Bike Project on the iPhone 5s on a couple of confusing routes and had pretty good luck with it telling me when I made a wrong turn. The routes need to be on the site tho'. Doesn't seem to burn too much juice and works in airplane mode. 

Ride GPS offers what they call voice turn-by-turn navigation which I may try out this weekend on a wet Trans-Virginia Gravel Trail segment ride. Gaia has the benefit og being able to plot routes on the NatGeo maps (if you can get it to work) and then you can ride off that map. This is super handy when doing routes no one has plotted before. 

I carry an external battery that was advertised as 4 full recharges but has never gone below 75% even on 4 day trips.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Garmin eTrex 32x? Any users yet?


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## raaden03 (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm pleased with my Garmin Etrex 30 also. It is easy to use and accurate.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

ETrex 30x

Bulletproof, easy to use. It has a "joystick" and buttons instead of a touch screen. Touch screens are hard to use in bad weather.

Plus it uses AA batteries which are cheap and available everywhere. I can get at least 20 hours on a set of batteries if I don't use the backlight...you do not need the backlight in regular daylight conditions, just tilt the unit a little now and then s the sun hits it correctly. 

As with most GPS units, it has a lot of features I will never use and have no intention of using. I generally just load a track and follow this at the appropriate zoom level with other map layers turned off so all I see is the track. Plus I toggle through a few screens that I have set up with standard bike computer stuff as well as one with the elevation profile of the route.

The Altimeter on the Etrex 30 is very useful. 

Garmin makes a bunch of really nice units that are more advanced but at this point, the Etrex does what I want it to do and I don't feel like learning a new system. Plus it's inexpensive. I got a refurbished (like new) one for $140.

I also carry a spare Etrex20 on longer rides for backup.


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## trekkerman (Mar 27, 2018)

I've used the cellphone app KOMOOT in France and in the U.S. and I like it, but it does consume battery power even though I keep it offline.


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

I invested in a garmin 520 plus this year and have the mt bike bundle. I've not tried it out on the trail yet, but using for road rides it's awesome. Trailforks makes downloading and loading trail maps very easy. Also has turn by turn nav. Pretty psyched. Def has me wanting to go out to trails that I don't already know so I can test it out


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

So... Edge or eTrex for bikepacking? Primarily singletrack.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Yes, they are more expensive, and yes, they do require a subscription, but what about devices like the Garmin GPSMAP 66i https://www.rei.com/product/163568/garmin-gpsmap-66i-gps-and-satellite-communicator ? In some faraway locations (like parts of Arizona) where there's limited or no cell coverage, this looks like a good all-round navigation and emergency device.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Hambone70 said:


> Yes, they are more expensive, and yes, they do require a subscription, but what about devices like the Garmin GPSMAP 66i https://www.rei.com/product/163568/garmin-gpsmap-66i-gps-and-satellite-communicator ? In some faraway locations (like parts of Arizona) where there's limited or no cell coverage, this looks like a good all-round navigation and emergency device.


Nice! I use an InReach Mini for bikepacking/ultra races, and generally any local ride (just for the peace-of-mind knowing that my wife can locate my dead body). Since my rides often include the eTrex 30x and the InReach Mini, I would be a proponent of the 66i and probably would have considered buying one if it came out last year...

...*except* a bar-mounted GPS is prone to being damaged in a crash. In March I had a mishap on a Pisgah waterfall which led to my bike taking a dunk into the stream, hitting a boulder and damaging the screen on my eTrex. I suppose had this been the 66i, the SOS function would still work, and I may have been able to communicate (with my contacts or with S&R when they respond back to verify an SOS) if the device was tethered to my cell phone (but I don't tether my InReach, so the phone wouldn't have been able to COM out through the InReach). And, of course, had the device been rendered dead altogether, no COM whatsoever.

That experience has shaped my preference to keep the cell phone and InReach in (separate) locations that are reasonably protected, and treat bar-mounted devices as expendable.

YMMV. I'm glad to see Garmin update the limited navigation-functionality of their InReach sat-coms.


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## nutjoe (May 21, 2019)

I've encountered the problem of map processing on my cellphone and want to make diagnostics on it to get to know possible problems. Serviceman told me to try an iphone diagnostic https://www.nsysgroup.com/en/ software. Hope it works.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> That experience has shaped my preference to keep the cell phone and InReach in (separate) locations that are reasonably protected, and treat bar-mounted devices as expendable.


Agreed. I keep my InReach in a pack or bag where it's safer and I keep it turned off so I always have a ton of power if and when I need it for emergencies. My bar mounted Garmin Etrex 20 has taken numerous hit and tumbles. I'm amazed it's still going strong.


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## jamatt (Jan 2, 2008)

Reporting back on iPhone 5s used offline with Gaia premium in areas without cell service. Worked OK. Issues included those detailed above like the phone being unreadable in sunshine, and map resolution being poor when zooming in in offline mode. Battery life was fine, I got a full day out of each phone charge on airplane mode.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> That experience has shaped my preference to keep the cell phone and InReach in (separate) locations that are reasonably protected, and treat bar-mounted devices as expendable.


Good point!


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## alias (May 9, 2005)

I'll throw in a +1 for Gaia.

We used it with success throughout the Middle East and most of Europe. I dont claim that its perfect, but the ability to download specific topos and satellite image tiles along your route is fantastic. Generally I have found the images to be very high resolution (as in picking out individual rocks) and infinitely helpful in remote areas with zero signage or difficult topography, or when you are simply following waypoints in a roadless area. I can get more than two days of navigation in Airplane mode before I need to recharge at around 10-20%. Depending on the route / bike I recharge with either a Dynamo, folding solar panel, or a no-name backup battery I picked up in Taiwan a few years back. Solar is nice as you can just trickle charge your reserve battery all day while riding and basically have endless juice.
I have the iphone in a Lifeproof case and mount it with a SP Connect stem / topcap mount. It seems quite well protected, but if I were packrafting, or lowering the bike with rope or similar, I would of course remove the phone from the bars as a precaution. In general I am a paper map geek, but we have increasingly found ourselves travelling in areas where detailed maps simply dont exist. 50+ year old military maps are not an appropriate true navigation option for me personally.

Of course if you go this route you need to protect your phone at all costs, and treat it as it is your lifeline. We also typically also have mapping on a second phone as backup just in case.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Etrex 20 on the bar for following routes, and a phone with BC Nav Pro and downloaded map tiles for backup and looking at maps. Most useful set up I've seen/used to date. Compasses don't work around here due to volcanic deposits, and the barometric altimeters are questionable and fiddly in my own experience.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

I just received the eTrex 32x. It seems so archaic when compared to a decent phone app!

I can see it being useful as a backup.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Somehow they manage to be useful as your _primary_ navigation device...day after day after day after day...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Somehow they manage to be useful as your _primary_ navigation device...day after day after day after day...


Yup. My Etrex 20 has outlasted 4 smartphones and will probably outlast at least 1 or 3 more with a purchase price less than 1/4 of a nice smartphone


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## steelcityadv (Dec 4, 2015)

Etrex 20. Works great

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Having used Gaia since my Edge 305 stopped working, I can’t see any advantage to the eTrex 32 over Gaia. AA battery power is nice, but I carry a power bank that can recharge my phone 4-5 times.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

alias said:


> I'll throw in a +1 for Gaia.
> 
> We used it with success throughout the Middle East and most of Europe. I dont claim that its perfect, but the ability to download specific topos and satellite image tiles along your route is fantastic. Generally I have found the images to be very high resolution (as in picking out individual rocks) and infinitely helpful in remote areas with zero signage or difficult topography, or when you are simply following waypoints in a roadless area. I can get more than two days of navigation in Airplane mode before I need to recharge at around 10-20%. Depending on the route / bike I recharge with either a Dynamo, folding solar panel, or a no-name backup battery I picked up in Taiwan a few years back. Solar is nice as you can just trickle charge your reserve battery all day while riding and basically have endless juice.
> I have the iphone in a Lifeproof case and mount it with a SP Connect stem / topcap mount. It seems quite well protected, but if I were packrafting, or lowering the bike with rope or similar, I would of course remove the phone from the bars as a precaution. In general I am a paper map geek, but we have increasingly found ourselves travelling in areas where detailed maps simply dont exist. 50+ year old military maps are not an appropriate true navigation option for me personally.
> ...


I use very nearly the same system. Use Rokform phone mount on bar vs stem mount as I use the stem to mount other things. Also run Mapout on my phone in parallel with Gaia. I like it. 14 watt 2 panel folding solar cell from amazon supplies power along with 10000 mAh battery for no sun days.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

I'm finding a few downsides of using a handlebar-mounted phone for navigation, especially here in summertime southern Arizona. The temperature in the direct sunlight sometimes causes my iPhone to shut itself down to protect itself from heat damage. The sun is often so bright as to make the screen unreadable. Finally, the tumble my bike and I took yesterday probably wouldn't have been kind to the phone, had it been mounted on the handlebars.

Perhaps I'll keep the eTrex after all. I'm getting used to the unwieldy and counterintuitive (to me, anyway) menu system.

Then again, the Edge 530 is looking good, too.


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

I use the Garmin eTrex 20x loaded with a backroads maps for my area. It mounts well on my stem if it is 90mm or longer, is rugged and reasonably priced. I carry a phone in airplane mode(or switched off) in a waterproof bag. 

The one drawback is in areas that have Trailforks coverage and lots of turns. In those situations, the phone gets used a lot more for the bigger screen.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

What's the consensus on the usability of the Edge 830's touchscreen? I'm not getting along with the buttons on the 530.


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## Balanced Rock (May 5, 2019)

Hambone70 said:


> What's the consensus on the usability of the Edge 830's touchscreen? I'm not getting along with the buttons on the 530.


Works great. Very responsive, intuitive. Haven't tried it in cold or wet weather though, but then I don't ride in cold or wet weather, lol. Can't imagine using using anything else.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Hambone70 said:


> What's the consensus on the usability of the Edge 830's touchscreen? I'm not getting along with the buttons on the 530.


If a new purchase, I'd do some research on the 830. I read of a lot of issues.

Possibly an Edge Touring if you don't need a lot of the fitness oriented metrics. $250 vs. $400


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for the replies!

I think I’ll stick with the 530, and possibly add the remote button interface.


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