# Pedro's



## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

Have you noticed Pedro's advertisements lately? Every time I see it I feel sad. It doesn't seem clever to me. I think it's in poor taste.

I feel they don't want me as a customer.  Whatever. I can deal with it.

I have a hard time believing any of their products are so good that I can't live without them. I plan to seek out their competitors for my money.


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Yeah, when I saw the ad I was a little dissapointed. Wrench Science was pulling the same kind of thing with their online ads. WS had some girl in a dress bending over and I remember thinking 'what the hell is that?' I heard they backed off a bit after so many people complained. 

It would be interesting to know just how effective or ineffective this type of ad really is.

As for the Pedros, it would be a bit less insulting and much more relevant to have a sexy girl lubing her bike and then writing some innuendo in the headline about "lubing for the epic ride" or something. I mean, if sex sells so well then at least make it relevant to the product. But even that's a bit sophmoric when I think of it.

You might get some colorful responses with this thread.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

JustDoIt said:


> Have you noticed Pedro's advertisements lately? Every time I see it I feel sad. It doesn't seem clever to me. I think it's in poor taste.
> 
> I feel they don't want me as a customer.  Whatever. I can deal with it.
> 
> I have a hard time believing any of their products are so good that I can't live without them. I plan to seek out their competitors for my money.


How effective is it? I refer you to the "Princess" thread http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=13528 , and you should have your answer.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

I actually had a conversation w/ my LBS genius yesterday re lube. He did a very interesting, non- scientific study of every lube he had.... he has a sickle bar mower that needed some grease while whacking the grass and molehills down, and decided to try different lubes on different areas of the bar. 

He said Boeshield Lube won hands down for least dirt attraction and most durability. White Lightning wore off almost instantly. Triflow stayed in there, but was somewhat dirty. Vegetible based lubes immediately turned to nasty bubble gum, requiring some extensive cleaning.

So... other options.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> I actually had a conversation w/ my LBS genius yesterday re lube. He did a very interesting, non- scientific study of every lube he had.... he has a sickle bar mower that needed some grease while whacking the grass and molehills down, and decided to try different lubes on different areas of the bar.
> 
> He said Boeshield Lube won hands down for least dirt attraction and most durability. White Lightning wore off almost instantly. Triflow stayed in there, but was somewhat dirty. Vegetible based lubes immediately turned to nasty bubble gum, requiring some extensive cleaning.
> 
> So... other options.


I've used Boeshield for over three years. It works really well as long as you follow the application instructions to the "t". It needs to dry overnight for proper application and the drivetrain needs to be wiped down after it has dried. So if you're lazy about maintaining your bike, it's probably not the right lube for you. In dry conditions it usually lasts about 75 - 100 miles.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> I've used Boeshield for over three years. It works really well as long as you follow the application instructions to the "t". It needs to dry overnight for proper application and the drivetrain needs to be wiped down after it has dried. So if you're lazy about maintaining your bike, it's probably not the right lube for you. In dry conditions it usually lasts about 75 - 100 miles.


Another note along these lines- he did say that he carried Triflow for creek crossing rides as it repelled water, stayed longer, and was generally more effective. But still preferred the B. for dry.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

Grrrr, stupid ISP....


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

I studied advertising in college. This ad looks like an internal job...somebody within the company who's title is "Marketing something." Internal ads are usually not well catered to the target market and usually has an off the mark message...such as this gal lubing a pole rather than her bike. After studying the "art" for 4 years, it's very easy to tell an "Intern" job vs an agency job. Inexperienced (that word replaced "dumb asses") go for clever, which often overrides the purpose of the ad. 

I think that Lube is a dumb thing advertise for specifically. Especially in the bike industry, I'm not about to change my lube based on what I saw in bicycle magazine...that's a hand-me-down or personally-researched type of product. They wasted their money and were tasteless about it. I don't like there products to begin with, and now that I have an impression of the mentality of people working at the company, I don't have a problem overlooking their brand.


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## velosapiens (Mar 8, 2004)

well, call me a sexist pig (or just someone without a chip on my shoulder), but i thought the ad was funny. of course it has absolutely no effect on my bike lube choice. i have an old bottle that used to have something by finishline in it. now, whenever i change the oil in my street bike (mobil1) i just top off the bottle with the last bit that doesn't fit in the motorcycle.
-mw


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2004)

nope, not funny.... well, maybe in an 'american pie' -ish way. i find it to be tacky and somewhat offensive, tho. not a good ad campaign for this product.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

just another stupid ad trying to appeal to the horniness of men.

on the other hand, the nude shot of cedric gracia was trying to appeal to the horniness of women. i liked that ad. i guess i am a sexist pig in that regard.

Rita


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

I just don't like the idea of bike lube in places it's not supposed to go. Eiw. Other than that, its a silly ad, I don't use that lube anyway and probably never will now - will just keep thinking COOCHIE OIL when I see it.


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## velosapiens (Mar 8, 2004)

zer0 said:


> just another stupid ad trying to appeal to the horniness of men.
> on the other hand, the nude shot of cedric gracia was trying to appeal to the horniness of women. i liked that ad. i guess i am a sexist pig in that regard.
> Rita


apologies if i'm overstepping my bounds by commenting in the women's forum, but....
i don't think this ad appeals to my 'horniness' at all. i think it's just kinda amusing. i don't find it sexually titillating or anything, and i'm sort of confused at the idea that someone might. i think it's also interesting that people can complain about it when it's a girl in the ad, but not when it's a guy. holy sexism! i think zer0 was probably a little tongue-in-cheek (at least i hope so), but in the last few years i have met a number of women who would find offense at something, but be amused if the sex roles were reversed. that doesn't sound like equality to me.

as an aside, it seems like the worst offenders (in my personal, anecdotal experience) are over 30-ish, or even over 40-ish sorts that grew up when it was still pretty normal for people to hold and express really sexist ideas. most of the younger girls i've met and hung out with don't seem to worry about it, perhaps because they grew up in an era where it was NOT ok to express overt sexism (even tho some people still think it). my son (19 this week) doesn't seem to think about people differently due to sex or color. it doesn't seem like it would really even occur to him or his friends to think that way. but then maybe i live in utopian microcosm where people are sensible.

sorry for rambling. everyone go ride now.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

tongue is firmly in cheek for sure. i meant to point out that women can sometimes be sexist, too. and i REALLY did like that cedric gracia ad!  

Rita


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*The least they could have done...*

was have bike shorts and socks tan lines on her! (sarcasm, for those wondering)

Yeah, I think it's a crap ad. Not that this type of ad is anything new, so it doesn't surprise me. I'm getting immune to them.

I like White Lightning, since I ride in a pretty dry climate. Before that, Triflow was my lube of choice.

Spike



JustDoIt said:


> Have you noticed Pedro's advertisements lately? Every time I see it I feel sad. It doesn't seem clever to me. I think it's in poor taste.
> 
> I feel they don't want me as a customer.  Whatever. I can deal with it.
> 
> I have a hard time believing any of their products are so good that I can't live without them. I plan to seek out their competitors for my money.


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## SSteel (Dec 31, 2003)

verslowrdr said:


> I actually had a conversation w/ my LBS genius yesterday re lube. He did a very interesting, non- scientific study of every lube he had.... he has a sickle bar mower that needed some grease while whacking the grass and molehills down, and decided to try different lubes on different areas of the bar.
> 
> He said Boeshield Lube won hands down for least dirt attraction and most durability. White Lightning wore off almost instantly. Triflow stayed in there, but was somewhat dirty. Vegetible based lubes immediately turned to nasty bubble gum, requiring some extensive cleaning.
> 
> So... other options.


I don't think that this test you mention is very reliable. If the lube is simply applied to the blade, he has missed the point of chain lubrication. Chains need to be lubricated internally, inside the bushings. This is where the wear takes its toll on the chain and the inevitable stretching begins. White Lightning (for example) is designed to wear away... it flakes off as dirt and debris clings to it, that's how it keeps the chain clean. Other more "wet" based lubes simply allow dirt to stick to it and thus allow the particulate to wear away at the chain as it is ground between metal surfaces.

p.s. I find the ad in poor taste, and I am 35yrs old. I never found this humour acceptable, and I'm a pretty jovial guy.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

SSteel said:


> I don't think that this test you mention is very reliable. If the lube is simply applied to the blade, he has missed the point of chain lubrication. [...]
> p.s. I find the ad in poor taste, and I am 35yrs old. I never found this humour acceptable, and I'm a pretty jovial guy.


I was thinking the same thing.

Thanks for the p.s. comment too.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

Thanks everyone for the comments. I don't expect every woman to agree with every thing I say here. I love hearing your differing opinions. And I will always try not to take any disagreement personally. I hope nobody takes it as a personal attack if I disagree with you. Because I will  I just hope I can refrain from writing in an inflammatory tone that ends up silencing a voice, and not aiding in a respectful discussion.

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of men, like velosapians, laughed wholeheartedly at that ad. It was clearly meant for them. When I'm feeling a little down, I like hearing that it wasn't totally successful with all men.

The comments on advertising were interesting. Even if it was possibly an outside job, Pedro's is the one signing off on it in the end. And continuing to allow it to appear.

Zer0, I'd say you don't get it. I haven't seen the Cedric ad you mention, but, I seriously doubt it would have the same effect on the male psyche that this ad has on females. There's a huge difference between this no-name woman and Cedric! When I look at her, I see nothing positive. She's no big name racer. I want to see images of me, or like, someone I potentially could be, related to mountain biking. Not a woman in a degrading dead-end job.

In all honesty, I may be a little sensitive to this ad. I know a young woman, A, who dropped out of college a few years ago. She's a dancer. I hear it was only supposed to be for a short while, and then she'd go back to college. But, I don't see it happening. The money is too easy and her life is moving in another direction. She boasts to my daughter how she has so much power over the guys. How she'd never date them. How she can make more money in a couple hours than my daughter makes slaving away all day. She views her "customers" as scum, but, takes pride in how well she can play the game. I think it's a sick world.

I just want my daughter to get a college degree, a job with some semblence of security, doing something she loves, that she doesn't have to lie about (like A does with her parents)... oh and ride bikes with me!!  I don't want her opening up that magazine in my house and thinking about how much money A might make tonight. <sigh>

I really love it when you can turn pain into humor. Thanks for the coochie oil comment. I'll definitely have to use that one!

I am interested when I hear women react differently than me to this ad. I can understand what Spike said about becoming immune. Am I sexist because I don't care as much about men's feelings in this? Most of my waking life, at work and at play, I am surrounded (bombarded?) by men and their opinions. I would like to understand women better and do something to help and encourage girls and women to participate in this sport I love so much. I like this forum for that reason. I don't ride much with women. But, it's not because I view them as too moody or high maintenance. It's because I don't know many women who ride, and of those I do know, our skills and trail interests tend to be too different. Then there's the time issue. I wouldn't want to ride with a woman simply because she's another woman. I would want there to be some degree of similarity and/or compatability in skill and attitude.

Sorry for the long ramble.


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

It's a valid discussion.

I agree that sexy male ads do not have the same negative impact. It has been only recently in the grand scheme of things that women have reached our level of equality and the hurt still runs deep for some. I think both sexes are well aware that fewer men are in danger of being victims of sex object advertising. Still, I have NO problem with female bikers like Marla Streb posing nude for the feminine frames calendars. It's relevant and empowering while still being sexy. The human body can be celebrated without being denigrated.

A better example of actual reverse-discrimination against men are the TV ads marketed to wives and moms that make husbands and fathers look inept. In a nutshell the mom (or even kid!) armed with the new product comes in and saves the day. Those and the Pedros types of ads a from the bad-advertising handbook of how to divide and conquer only a portion of your audience.

In my experience you never close out a potential audience if you can create a more effective campaign and snag them all.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

hi JDI
you are right, i do not get it. i always have been a bit unusual. i simply do not see things the way other people do, including other women. i was not offended by the ad at all, which is probably why i made light of it. life is too short to get upset about that sort of thing(maybe if i were raising a daughter i would feel differently). now if it depicted violence, that is something different all together.

Rita


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

*Marla is cool*



Ghisallo said:


> I have NO problem with female bikers like Marla Streb posing nude for the feminine frames calendars. It's relevant and empowering while still being sexy. The human body can be celebrated without being denigrated.


I totally agree.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

zer0 said:


> you are right, i do not get it.... i was not offended by the ad at all,


Thanks for your honesty, zer0.

_"Jesus Loves You
But I'm His Favorite"_
-- bumper sticker that made me laugh yesterday


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

Hi -

I didn't answer your post at first 'cause I didn't figure you particularly wanted to hear any disagreements. Plus, I didn't want to come off as a stripper or something 

But since you asked, I don't find stuff like that offensive at all and I have a hard time understanding why anyone would care enough to actually be made unhappy by it. Does every ad w/ a half-clothed girl in it tick you off? If so, you must be annoyed alot. or is it just when it's bike related? or stripper related? Your comment that they don't want you as a customer, I don't understand. Money talks, and I don't think any company would run an ad they thought was sufficiently offensive to loose them customers of any significant demographic. Just because there might not be a bunch of women choosing lubes, there are lots of men with wives and daughters, and if the ad was really insulting to women, I think there would be a backlash.

So anyhow, I think you should not take yourself and your gender so seriously. Life is too short to look for problems where there aren't any. Cheers!

P.S. Do you GET the joke in the ad? Strippers do that thing where they spin around the pole from top to bottom. If the pole was properly lubed, she might get a much faster and prolonged spin. So, really, think of her as an athelete trying to improve her performance. Actually, if I were doing their ad campaign, I might do firefighters next.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

litespeedchick said:


> I didn't figure you particularly wanted to hear any disagreements. Plus, I didn't want to come off as a stripper or something


Disagreeing is perfectly fine! I know you smile/joke here. But, they say jokes can often have some truth behind them. Makes me wonder a little.

I don't envision myself going around feeling ticked off and unhappy all the time. It was more like a sad feeling when I first saw it, and then I made a decision on how I would deal with it, and I moved on. Maybe I'm more empathetic than you, that's all? I liked hearing I wasn't the only one feeling disappointed with it.

Maybe part of the reason I feel the way I do is because I have a daughter and a strong maternal instinct to protect her. I wonder if any moms with daughters view things more like you do? I'm just guessing you have no children. I have no idea about zer0. But, even if any moms disagreed with me, I'd say, "Diversity is great, let's talk." 



> or is it just when it's bike related? or stripper related?


Hmmm... I don't think I know! But, it was a biking mag and I did open it to see bikes and bike related stuff. I never associated strippers with bikes. As I mentioned in another post, I may be sensitive because of the young lady I mentioned. Another reason I could see for possibly being (too???) sensitive is because I grew up on the edge of a more industrial area. I remember going out running in 10th grade to get in shape for bball/track. We had a topless bar and an x-rated bookstore a few blocks down. Sometimes when I was near those areas men would interrupt me "in my zone" to yell things or ask me if I could give them a blowjob. So the stripper connection... yeah, maybe. Can't deny that.



> I don't think any company would run an ad they thought was sufficiently offensive to loose the customers of any significant demographic. Just because there might not be a bunch of women choosing lubes, there are lots of men with wives and daughters, and if the ad was really insulting to women, I think there would be a backlash.


Well, first off I'd say they weren't thinking much about it at all! But, this is kind of funny to me. Women are currently customers comprising a significant demographic here? You gotta be kidding, right? I don't know the numbers, and I know things are changing, but that doesn't sound true at all to me. And a backlash by men for women?! Yeah, right.

I don't think things are as black and white as you make it sound.



> Cheers!


Kampai!  I'm going to Japan in a couple months. Gotta practice.



> p.s...


I do get the joke. And I realize sex sells. I never thought of firemen as sex symbols though. Guess I haven't met the right ones yet


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2004)

i also realize that sex sells and that sexism permeates all aspects of our society, and i admit that the ad is somewhat clever, and i understand that all our opinions are just that, our opinions- but i believe that women dancing exotically on poles while men throw money at them is demeaning to all women. sure, many exotic dancers don't agree, but that does not make their opinions correct. in fact, i feel bad that they feel the way they do.

i have a daughter and wife (the reason i read the women's lounge on occassion... she appreciates the info i am able to retrieve from these posts), and it makes me sad when i realize my little girl is growing up in a world where these ads work. while in school i realized that insinuating someone is an angry feminists has become a way to stop people from speaking out against sexism, causing them to "tone down" their opinions. it appears that method also works on internet forums.

i believe sex appeal is cool, i am not suggesting that we should all be prudes, i just wish the sexism would end (pipe dream, i know). then again, where does one draw the line between using sex to sell vs. the sexism in our culture that seems to always denigrate women? that's a highly subjective judgement call (is a woman in a bikini in a beer ad really that different from the insinuation of a woman dancing naked for money in a bike lube ad?). still, i believe pedro's inched across the line of sexism with this ad.

and, no, an exotic male dancer in the ad would not be equal. to think so is really small-minded, and is an immature way to defend the ad. 

i apologize for ranting. to be honest, i don't think this is the proper forum for this, but i just had to reply again after reading the above posts.

ladies, thank you all so much for the informative posts i've read over the last month or so in your forums.

antonio


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

velosapiens said:


> apologies if i'm overstepping my bounds by commenting in the women's forum, but....
> i don't think this ad appeals to my 'horniness' at all. i think it's just kinda amusing. i don't find it sexually titillating or anything, and i'm sort of confused at the idea that someone might. i think it's also interesting that people can complain about it when it's a girl in the ad, but not when it's a guy. holy sexism! i think zer0 was probably a little tongue-in-cheek (at least i hope so), but in the last few years i have met a number of women who would find offense at something, but be amused if the sex roles were reversed. that doesn't sound like equality to me.
> 
> as an aside, it seems like the worst offenders (in my personal, anecdotal experience) are over 30-ish, or even over 40-ish sorts that grew up when it was still pretty normal for people to hold and express really sexist ideas. most of the younger girls i've met and hung out with don't seem to worry about it, perhaps because they grew up in an era where it was NOT ok to express overt sexism (even tho some people still think it). my son (19 this week) doesn't seem to think about people differently due to sex or color. it doesn't seem like it would really even occur to him or his friends to think that way. but then maybe i live in utopian microcosm where people are sensible.
> ...


Ramble away Mark.

I have no problems whatsoever with the ad and I am in your little age demographic there. I also have no problem with JDI's reaction and intention not to purchase their product based upon the ad.

Just as the ad will provoke sales and assist with name recognition, it could turn away others. Its all fair game and valid in the choice of where to spend your dollars.

But really, the ad doesn't appear at all titillating to you? Even those cool clear heels she is wearing and the obviousness of what she will do later with that pole? You Nevadians can't be that immune.

Sabine


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

Toneetouch,

Everything you say is interesting to me. And I don't think you have to have a wife or daughter to read this forum  I did think seriously about posting this discussion in the other forum. But, DeepWalletDave-ness drowns it out so frickin' much... I just don't have the energy to deal with it!! It's insane over there. I'm sure to be attacked, labeled an angry feminist, and have my sexuality called into question. Not a comfortable feeling  I have more of a chance of survival here. There are quite a few guys on mtbr that I would love to discuss stuff with. You know, it's weird here too... to think you're writing stuff and expecting most readers to just shuddup and lissen  So strange. I admit I (sexistly) believe most men would not understand my feelings, and most women would. I would like to prove myself wrong, and work on bridging that gap. But, how? It's impossible on the internet. I was trying in my own way to do that though.

I agree, it's very hard to figure out where to draw the line when using sex in advertising. I don't want to be a prude either. I like it more when advertisements appear relevant, make me laugh, and I can't imagine anyone being hurt by it. I guess I don't feel bothered by the bikini-beer association. That happens in real life.

I think everyone is racist and sexist. Some folks to more degrees than others. It's natural. I try to be aware of this in myself. I think our opinions can differ so much based on personal experiences. I like to try to put myself in other people's shoes. I don't have a tv, so images in magazines really affect me. And I think I love mountain biking so much, I don't want ANY of its images to push a button that hurts me or anyone else. Maybe it's naive of me to think that's possible. I also think a lot of people are apathetic and might never think about how these ads work. I don't know much about advertising, but, I can feel how it works on me.

Well... it looks like DWD is here to stay. I think the fun is over  Take care.


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## Crankypants (Feb 4, 2004)

*Don't worry about DWD*

He's just a troll. He just wants to piss people off and start flames. It only works if people react. If we all ignore him, he won't get what he wants. It takes two to have a flame war.

CP



JustDoIt said:


> Toneetouch,
> 
> Well... it looks like DWD is here to stay. I think the fun is over  Take care.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

JustDoIt said:


> I did think seriously about posting this discussion in the other forum. But, DeepWalletDave-ness drowns it out so frickin' much... I just don't have the energy to deal with it!! It's insane over there. I'm sure to be attacked, labeled an angry feminist, and have my sexuality called into question. Not a comfortable feeling  I have more of a chance of survival here.
> Well... it looks like DWD is here to stay. I think the fun is over  Take care.


Don't let DipSh!tDave scare you away from the politics, etc. forum. Just do what I did - put him on "ignore"  . Besides, FWIW, I think we drove him out - even the righties on the forum couldn't put up with his nonsense.

Seriously, we could use a voice or three *other* than the hateful right-wing dingbats and paranoid blathering leftists that have come to dominate "over there". And I promise not to label you an angry feminazi lesbian tree-hugger (or a shriveled-up numbed-out reactionary, for that matter) if we should happen to disagree


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## velosapiens (Mar 8, 2004)

Sabine said:


> But really, the ad doesn't appear at all titillating to you? Even those cool clear heels she is wearing and the obviousness of what she will do later with that pole? You Nevadians can't be that immune.
> Sabine


i guess i require a little less subtlety to get me going, or maybe a real person. maybe if she had the biker sock-tan-line going so i'd know she was really an athlete. heh heh. maybe if she lived in ely (a town incredibly rich in mtn biking and other outdoor opportunities, but somewhat poor in female mtn-bikers). seriously, i think most athletes are more titillating just doing their athletic thing (skating, running, cycling, soccer, whatever) than a completely dressed stripper. maybe that's why i'm single.
-mw


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

*Amen to that!*



Ghisallo said:


> It's a valid discussion.
> 
> A better example of actual reverse-discrimination against men are the TV ads marketed to wives and moms that make husbands and fathers look inept. In a nutshell the mom (or even kid!) armed with the new product comes in and saves the day. Those and the Pedros types of ads a from the bad-advertising handbook of how to divide and conquer only a portion of your audience.
> 
> In my experience you never close out a potential audience if you can create a more effective campaign and snag them all.


It's not just commercials aimed at women. Look at sitcoms, kids' shows, almost any other medium that uses "humor" - Men (particularly Dads) are widely depicted as bumbling, ineffectual morons who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time it not for the intervention (sometimes behind the scenes) of their wise, level-headed wives or intuitive, honest kids.

Turnabout's fair play - it's just a reversal of the dynamics in "I Love Lucy" or the old George Burns/Gracie Allen show - but it gets pretty old.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Crankypants said:


> He's just a troll. He just wants to piss people off and start flames. It only works if people react. If we all ignore him, he won't get what he wants. It takes two to have a flame war.
> 
> CP


EXACTLY. Just ignore him and this place will be fine.


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## Pedro's (Apr 6, 2004)

*Pedro's Response To This Discussion*

It has been very interesting reading all the replies to our dancer ad. Please read the following so you know where we, Pedro's, are coming from...

The bike industry is a very small one and is flooded with competitive products (especially in the lubrication area). Smaller companies need to find a way to get noticed and stand out.

Fifteen years ago when we came out with our first product, Syn Lube, and our first ad, "Give in to Syn" we had a magazine that refused to publish it. Times have changed and now, fifteen years later we are still around and having fun with the products we make.

We know that some people are disappointed with what we do or how we name our products, but that is the roots of the Pedro's Brand. From Syn Lube to Lip Schit we try to have a light hearted approach to this category of the bike industry.

In recent years we have taken a run-of the mill approach to our advertising. I bet 8 out of 10 people can't tell us what our last year's ad campaign was and even fewer can tell what our 2002 campaign was. This has not been a good investment in our eyes. With advertising rates at an all time high and the number of magazines increasing on the newsstand we needed a way to get our ads to jump off the page. By the discussions in the forum it looks like they have made an impact.

How many times can we run an ad that says, "Pedro's Liquid X, The World's Best Lube"? Every company that makes lube has said this. Yes, we feel that ours is the best and have spent a ton of money and three years of our time to create this product. If you had read an ad that said it was the best and showed a bottle of the product would you have even noticed it? When you try Liquid X you will agree that it is the best. This year it is being used by a ton of professional teams who specifically request Pedro's over any other product.

We don't have the huge ad budgets of our competitors so we hired a very experienced advertising agency to do our creative. With clients such as Anheuser-Bush, American Red Cross, CVS, Dunkin' Donuts, Priceline.com, Marshalls, Motorola, Fleet Bank, etc. we feel that they are very qualified to do our advertising.

There are three more ads coming out in this campaign that don't deal with sex. They might offend an entirely different group of people but they convey the humor that Pedro's has been based on and fun we have marketing our products and brand.

This ad is just one of the aspects of our company. We are members of IMBA and Bikes Belong, we run the largest mountain bike festival (now in its 10th year) in the U.S., we do dealer support tours, we sponsor USA Cycling, many national and world champions, charity rides, local races, race teams and clubs. If you are going to judge our company on one advertisement we ask you to look at the other things we are doing and have done for this sport that we have dedicated our lives to be part of.

Someone made the comment of why even advertise lube. To that we must say that this is what we do and have done for the past fifteen years. This is how we have chosen to feed our families and love coming to work every day. Not everyone can say they love their job, but we do and this is why we advertise and sell lubes.

If you have not tried our products we feel that you will agree that they are the best. Our bike care products are world class and keep an eye on the environment, our tools come with an Unconditional Lifetime Warranty and our bags are helping to keep used inner tubes out of landfills.

Thanks for hearing our side of this discussion. I welcome other questions and comments.

Karl Wiedemann
Pedro's


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

Pedro's said:


> We don't have the huge ad budgets of our competitors so we hired a very experienced advertising agency to do our creative. With clients such as Anheuser-Bush, American Red Cross, CVS, Dunkin' Donuts, Priceline.com, Marshalls, Motorola, Fleet Bank, etc. we feel that they are very qualified to do our advertising.


I don't have a lot of time right now, but, when I read this part of your post, the first thing I thought was... ah ha! Have you noticed this article (url below)? I initially saw it somewhere else, but, I googled for it and found it here:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8182357.htm

Quotes I like from the article include:

"People are really sick of the Budweiser-type marketing..."

"...low-key approach has resonated with customers."

"...sick of advertising that exploits women."

Mountain biking content, some may ask?
If you read the article, it mentions mountain bikers as being trendsetters like those speaking the quotes above!! 

I think you got ripped off.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

Pedro's said:


> It has been very interesting reading all the replies to our dancer ad. Please read the following so you know where we, Pedro's, are coming from...
> 
> The bike industry is a very small one and is flooded with competitive products (especially in the lubrication area). Smaller companies need to find a way to get noticed and stand out.
> 
> ...


I like it when manufacturers pay attention to what people are writing about their product. Kudos to you for expressing where you guys were coming from. For me personally, the information contained in your response to this thread would inspire me to try your product way more than your pole dancing girl ad campaign any day.

Whoever posted the comment about the sock tan had a good point. I think I actually might have found the ad extremely humorous if she had a bike tan. Taken at face value, the ad is obviously intended to be funny but without the biking tie in, it loses some of its appeal (for me at least).

Did you guys do any market research on the target audience on the ad before it was published? Curious what the results were if you did.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

*It didn't work*



Pedro's said:


> In recent years we have taken a run-of the mill approach to our advertising. I bet 8 out of 10 people can't tell us what our last year's ad campaign was and even fewer can tell what our 2002 campaign was. This has not been a good investment in our eyes. With advertising rates at an all time high and the number of magazines increasing on the newsstand we needed a way to get our ads to jump off the page. By the discussions in the forum it looks like they have made an impact.


I'm sorry, but I fail to see what is particularly noteworthy about that ad. A hot chick using a company's product? That's _completely_ "run-of-the-mill", to the point where I consider it "background noise" and move on without a second look. You might want to think about other ways to get your ads to "jump off the page"...


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

Pedro's said:


> This ad is just one of the aspects of our company. We are members of IMBA and Bikes Belong, we run the largest mountain bike festival (now in its 10th year) in the U.S., we do dealer support tours, we sponsor USA Cycling, many national and world champions, charity rides, local races, race teams and clubs. If you are going to judge our company on one advertisement we ask you to look at the other things we are doing and have done for this sport that we have dedicated our lives to be part of.


Honestly? I'm much more inclined to try your product now than when I saw polegirl.

The best advertisement for a bike company I EVER saw was the warrenty that came with my Surly Crosscheck... I'd buy another Surly product in a heartbeat after the LBS boys and I laughed hysterically through "if you munch the forks going off a loading dock we won't cover it", something about drinking beer and running it into a redwood and not covering it, and "we're hip to the 'just riding along' thing and we're not buying it". I'm quoting wrong, but that was the jist.

It was funny, it made a legitimate point, it didn't insult anyone, and also effectively communicated that Surly doesn't just SELL, they RIDE. What's not to love?!?


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the reply. Regardless of whether the offended are molified, I think anyone who spouts "empowerment" and is concerned that women aren't taken seriously as a marketing demographic should be pleased that the company in question thought it was worth the time and effort to respond to the MTBR "Women's Lounge".


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to address the concerns posted here.

I remember seeing the Pedro's ad in Flow, and I was so pissed about the content of the magazine, the Pedro's ad wasn't even close to making my list of complaints.


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*That's cool*

Hi, Karl. It's cool that you've given us your side of the story and some background information.

One distinction I'd like to make. You said, 


Pedro's said:


> There are three more ads coming out in this campaign that don't deal with sex.


I don't think this is simply an ad that deals with sex. I think it is an ad that deals with female sex, there is a difference. The ad does not simply use a sexy model; it uses a sexy model who is portraying a member of an industry that is commonly accused of exploiting women.

Spike


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

I guess I can claim to be the 1st woman to make it on another woman's Ignore List. But, unlike DWD, I wasn't even trying! Unless, lsc, or someone wants to come forth and say somebody else got the honor first, I guess it's mine. And unlike DWD, it doesn't make me feel real good.  Oh well. 

When this forum was first created, I wondered if any of the vendors would be reading here... to see our opinions on WSD bikes, and such. Wondering if the forum could have some kind of say in how products are made and marketed towards us. Without even reading Pedro's response, just seeing it posted and identified as being from them, I was celebrating!

I'm still not sure my comments, or those of any man(thanks Drewdane) or woman here, could make a difference, or help to make this world a better place... not sure I'll give Pedro's a try because I've always bought White Lightening and this ad offends me and may stay in my consciousness for awhile, but...

Karl, Can you send me some FREE lube since I'm the one that started this thread and got you all this new publicity here, positive or negative, be it what it may. Then I'll say "Thank you", and you can say "I'm sorry" and we can drink whatever beer you like. Doesn't have to be PBR.


Note: Not once in any of my posts have I used the bad e-word "empowerment". I'm still waiting to receive my hard copy of the radical lesbian feminist lexicon book.

I'm gonna go ride now. New avatar coming some day.


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Cool, another manufacturer has grasped the power of using MTBR as a focus group. I would like to thank you for responding. You’ve made some interesting points. But let me promise you that as a female mountain biker that works for an ad agency you CAN develop edgy marketing that builds your brand.

In the rush to stand out you may have forgotten the purpose of an ad campaign. Only people in advertising and lovers of ads remember campaigns, you do not require people to remember the campaign. The question is do we remember your BRAND and PRODUCT favorably. I cannot stress this enough. 

You may think your old ads were lackluster but I recently purchased a Pedro’s tool based upon your product reputation and a PR snippet in a MTB magazine. While you were worrying about being stale and boring your brand was still gaining strength. The viral marketing potential of me posting on these forums to recommend this product was quashed the moment I saw that ad.

The plain and simple fact is that if you actually do have better products you should be able to better differentiate that fact in your ads and utilize cost efficient PR via editorial reviews to build trust and finish the sale. It worked for me on the tool which I went to great lengths to find. 

You cannot ignore the fact that there are some women and men on this forum who are giving you the feedback that your ads are offensive. There are some that are not bothered by it, but they aren’t exactly running out to by your lube either. You cannot say don’t judge us based upon one ad because then one has to wonder why you bother running ads if we’re not supposed to judge you by them?

You also said, “This year it is being used by a ton of professional teams who specifically request Pedro’s over any other product.” There’s at least a seed on which to grow a campaign. We buy much of our products based upon what racer is using them. With this and more promotion of the good things you do you can build trust.

You don’t have to hire a spendy agency to get an ethical marketing campaign. In fact a lot of the big agencies are some of the most unethical. But if you don’t want to invest any more time and money at this point, take the time to pick up a book by Ad Reviewer Bob Garfield ‘And Now a Few Words From Me’. He has a chapter devoted to the inherent problem of trying to make money with offensive advertising. 

Good luck with Pedro’s I know it’s a tough market. I’ve been to Interbike—it’s cutthroat.


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

JustDoIt said:


> Disagreeing is perfectly fine! I know you smile/joke here. But, they say jokes can often have some truth behind them. Makes me wonder a little.
> 
> *Geez, if I weren't so insensitive, I think I would take offense at that implication.*
> Maybe I'm more empathetic than you, that's all?
> ...


Anyhow, congrats on getting attention from Pedros, and here's a tip: Try using 80% White Lightning mixed w/ 20% Pedros Ice Wax. It thickens up the WL to make it apply better w/out dripping everywhere...makes it more like the old WL formula. I got this tip off MTBR in the old forum and it was a good one.

Kampai!


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## Pedro's (Apr 6, 2004)

*Thanks*

Thanks to all for your feedback. We appreciate it.

Karl
Pedro's


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2004)

nice to read so many valid points here.


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

*totally*



Ghisallo said:


> A better example of actual reverse-discrimination against men are the TV ads marketed to wives and moms that make husbands and fathers look inept. In a nutshell the mom (or even kid!) armed with the new product comes in and saves the day.


Those types of ads drive my husband nuts! Why are all men suddenly bumbling idiots? My man's pretty smart


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Good point. It's not just the ads. I don't watch so many sitcoms nowadays, but I get the picture from the preview commercials.

I did see a detergent ad recently that seems to almost 'get' that the wifely condescending is getting old. They have some nagging wife instructing her husband into the ground about how to get out a stain while he looks blankly at her,

"Scrub it with this, dab it with this, you've got muscles, use 'em etc. etc."

Then he finds the miracle product after she leaves and bypasses her advice to get the stain out. So now they've established wives are nagging control freaks, husbands are still lazy--but clever--and monogamy doesn't look so good anymore.

I watch too much TV.


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