# XML Light Build



## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Santa came early and delivered some XML T6 LEDs earlier this week so I'm going to start a new light build during the Christmas vacation.

Step 1 - make some MCPCBs and reflow solder the LEDs










Step 2 - modify a Regina reflector to fix the XML.










Step 3 - mount the Regina to the LED










Step 4 - Go outside and take beamshots to see how it works

First beamshot is of the setup I'm currently using. Triple XPG R5 1A with the cute-xp-ss 35mm optic. I really like the throw and even pattern this gives. It's really hard to get the same feel for the throw by looking at a beamshot as you do in real life.










Next is the narrow carclo 20mm triple with XPG R5s at 1A. Again it a little hard to see in the beamshot, but more flood and less throw. But still a pretty good setup especially as a bar light.










XML with Regina reflector at 3A. The picture make it look really floody, it doesn't seem quite that floody in real life. I'm actually really impressed. You have to keep in mind this is a single LED compared to triples. It seems to have just about as much throw as the 35mm triple and at the same time more flood than the 20mm triple. I can't wait to get it out on the trails to see how it performs.










And a magicshine picture for good measure. It's really completely out classed in this comparison.










I also played a little bit with 3 XMLs paired with the Cute-3-SS-XM. Wow, that setup is insanely bright. I didn't have a chance to get pictures of that yet.

Anyway, more to come as I decide which optic / number of LEDs to use for the build. If I decide to go with the 35mm triple I may just modify one of my existing housing. If I go with the single, I'll build a completely new housing. I may end up doing both.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks MM that is encouraging and a small light to boot .

thats one gut feeling I feel better about .

would like to see the triple xm with cute .


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

MtbMacgyver, great stuff.

If you get a chance could you check the Vf of the XML please. It looks very promising and it looks like you got a nice tint too. Do you know what that tint bin is?


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Thanks for sharing - very interesting!

How did you modify the Regina? Just sand/etc off a part of the bottom, or did you have to make the hole bigger by drilling it out etc?

And if you have a Boom SS - I'd be really interested in seeing a beamshot with that as well


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> MtbMacgyver, great stuff.
> 
> If you get a chance could you check the Vf of the XML please. It looks very promising and it looks like you got a nice tint too. Do you know what that tint bin is?


I'll have to measure it at the LED. At the driver it was 3.3v at 3A after warmed up, but I have a long wire at the moment and I'm sure it's at least 0.1v lower at the LED, maybe more.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Nice.........


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

langen said:


> Thanks for sharing - very interesting!
> 
> How did you modify the Regina? Just sand/etc off a part of the bottom, or did you have to make the hole bigger by drilling it out etc?
> 
> And if you have a Boom SS - I'd be really interested in seeing a beamshot with that as well


I milled the back off to the level where the reflector normally rests on the XPG. That way it sits at the same level on the XML. If you look at the hole in Regina, it's not actually round. I had to drill it out to make it round.

I don't have a Boom at the moment.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

odtexas said:


> Nice.........


+1 Looking good!


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks for those beamshots. I think that's what everyone has been waiting for. 

I do believe that it is time to declare that the P7 and MC-E have now been replaced. Lower cost and more light, what's not to like about that.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Triple cute? yeh me too i`ve got a couple of XR-E SS ......
I cant see any difference


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HHH funny I was just looking at them now










there is a difference in the led cavity .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

hmmm! cheers troutie
i`ve just checked the C10754_Cute-3-SS-XP-G
guess what.... its the same piggin drawing too!!


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks MM that is encouraging and a small light to boot .
> 
> thats one gut feeling I feel better about .
> 
> would like to see the triple xm with cute .


Yeah, so far I'm encouraged with the results with the Regina. But, I think I'll have to get it out on the trails before I'll really know what I think. But, keep in mind my trails are very wooded and twisty and I don't needs lights with a ton of throw.

The cute-ss with the xml is a little floody. But 3000 lumens makes up a lot. I tend to think as the brightness increases having a wider beam angle is good. But I suspect some will want more throw.

As you guys have noticed, the xpe, xpg, and xml version of the cute triple appears to be the same optic. The xre version is different.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Macgyver, Thanks for sharing so quickly.

It would appear in those pics that the modded Regina has better throw than the triple xpg but also a much wider beam. Given that I found my 20mm triple too wide to make a good helmet light I'm thinking the modded Regina will also be too wide.

I am currently waiting for some DX 32953 drop ins to use the reflectors and LEDs for some twin helmet lights. The wall beam shots put up by Bkruahnndon in this thread would have the DX reflectors with a considerably tighter beam and reportedly more throw than the Regina so I'm thinking this may be the better alternative.

Sadly I have nothing to test

Just noticed the price has dropped $2 on those drop ins since I ordered them early November


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

................... emu, me too!
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32953
+ smooth and shiney 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5955
and these 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836
left H.K. on the 17th


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MMac, Great beam shots! Thanks a bunch. Can't see wait to see what the XM-L does with other modified reflectors. Really nice was having the different set-ups to compare to especially the MS. I don't think it will be too long before someone markets an XML version of the MS. Although I'm sure the soon-to-be-arriving XML torches will not be driven at 3A, they should still out class the former models and make great bike lights. Thanks again for the sneak peek at the XM-L. :thumbsup:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> ................... emu, me too!
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32953
> + smooth and shiney
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5955
> ...


It will be interesting to see how that middle reflector performs against the 32953. Please post up wall shots when they arrive.

As for leaving HK, was it posted on the 17th or actually left the post office on the 17th? BTW, I don't think they actually come from HK, I'm pretty sure it's mainland China. I reckon I'd have mine by now if it was HK Post.

On a side note, can I say curse the lot of you. I wasn't even going to look at the XM-L until I had seen a range of complete builds with a good comparison of beamshots against outputs I was familiar with. I'm already thinking of skipping the twin XPG I was waiting for those reflectors for and using the DX reflectors in a double XM-L with that spare hipflex I've had sitting in the parts box for over a year


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

I measured the Vf of the XML at 3amp right at the emitter. 3.1 volts

I tried some different optics such as the LXP RS last night, but I didn't have time to take beam shots. I also tried a bunch of older optic / reflectors and some worked pretty well.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

MtbMacgyver,

I suppose that you are not running the XML for any length of time yet but do you have a feel for what the heat build-up is likely to be like driving it at 3A?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

OverTheHill said:


> MtbMacgyver,
> 
> I suppose that you are not running the XML for any length of time yet but do you have a feel for what the heat build-up is likely to be like driving it at 3A?


You're right that I haven't been running them for an extended period of time yet, but I have been surprised that my test jig isn't even getting warm. I was expected more heat with it running at 3 amps.


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Looks great! I really like the warmer color too! When can we catch up for a ride?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

More progress on my XML light build.

Here's my test jig for the cute-ss triple










The LEDs, MCPCBs and aluminum carrier with positioning holes for the optic










and the all important beam shot. It's obviously wider with the XML vs the XPG, but when you're dealing with 3000 lumens a little wide isn't a bad thing. Look at how much throw it still has. You can see the little trees in the distance better than with any of the other lights.










here's the same optic with XPG R5s from above. I'll put it here so you can see side by side.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Homebrew said:


> Looks great! I really like the warmer color too! When can we catch up for a ride?


Yeah, I have some fairly warm tints as well as some cooler tints. Still can't decide which I like better. Yeah, we need to hook up for a ride. I rode this morning while the trails were still frozen. The next few days will be a real mess with everything melting and not cold enough at night to freeze the ground.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Holy moly!!!!!!!


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

savagemann said:


> Holy moly!!!!!!!


Yeah, it's pretty impressive in person. Seems like daytime. Since I always ride with both a bar and helmet light, it would be kinda ridiculous. I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't run this at full power very often.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

I'd like to see 3 up regina or lxp compared to the cute..if you get bored


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ThatS very impresive so the XML is at full 3 amp ?
Whats the drive for the xpg pic 

Any chance of a shot with the xmls at 1.5amps 
The same as if using a B2Flex

I would do it myself. But no leds yet :madman:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

And my first finished XML based light. I just made modifications to the CNC files for my XPG triple case and cranked a few out. It's pretty amazing to have this kind of light output in a 78 gram light head.



















Next I'm going to work on an XML single either based on the Regina or LXP optic. I'd like to come up with a design that'll take either optic. That way I'll have more beam choices for bar and helmet.

-


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> ThatS very impresive so the XML is at full 3 amp ?
> Whats the drive for the xpg pic
> 
> Any chance of a shot with the xmls at 1.5amps
> ...


Yes, that beamshot is at a full 3 amps running off an h6flex. Sure, I can grab a beamshot running off an b2flex. The XPG pic is at 1A.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow, that's a beauty, a real work of art. It's also a staggering amount of light from such a neat little head unit. 

I can't see much space for the h6flex and switch - is that mounted remotely?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Incredible..... Nice work and thanks for the beam shots.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

..Yikes!! :yikes: just love that cute ss beam pattern!
Thanks for the beamshots and comparisons!
. .... you know, that test jig would make for a dead simple DIY light!
smaller profile, couple of end caps, glue the leds straight on the profile
and a piece of clear acrylic tube round the optic ...


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## 121GW (Sep 21, 2007)

MtbMacgyver: What are the rough dimensions of that housing? What current are you going to be running that at?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I would also be very interested in seeing the build with the LXP-RS as it's my optic of choice for the XP-G. That triple at 3A is damn impressive though... :thumbsup:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

JezV said:


> Wow, that's a beauty, a real work of art. It's also a staggering amount of light from such a neat little head unit.
> 
> I can't see much space for the h6flex and switch - is that mounted remotely?


The case has a driver in it behind the LEDs. The metal button on the top of the case presses a button on the driver board. You can look back at this thread if you want to see details of how the driver mounts.

I actually have this setup in two configurations right now. In one configuration the driver is in the light head and the drive current is 2 amps. In the other configuration, the h6flex is in the battery pack and the drive current is 3 amps.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

rxbandit said:


> MtbMacgyver: What are the rough dimensions of that housing? What current are you going to be running that at?


The case diameter is 1.5 inches, 2 inches long, surface area is 24 square inches. See my previous post for details on drive current.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

OverTheHill said:


> I would also be very interested in seeing the build with the LXP-RS as it's my optic of choice for the XP-G.


Yeah, the LXP-RS is one of my favorite optics as well. On an XPG, I like it better than the Regina because of the smoothness of the pattern and it's nearly as tight as the Regina. So far I've only tested that optic inside with a ceiling shot. I'll post up the picture when I get that outside for a descent beam shot.


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

MtbMacgyver said:


> and the all important beam shot. It's obviously wider with the XML vs the XPG, but when you're dealing with 3000 lumens a little wide isn't a bad thing. Look at how much throw it still has. You can see the little trees in the distance better than with any of the other lights.
> 
> here's the same optic with XPG R5s from above. I'll put it here so you can see side by side.


Bad comparison, IMHO, that's like comparing cherries to watermelons.
30W XM-L vs. 9W XP-G
With such lumen outputs it's time to use oval optics.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

zemike said:


> Bad comparison, IMHO, that's like comparing cherries to watermelons.
> 30W XM-L vs. 9W XP-G
> With such lumen outputs it's time to use oval optics.


Yes, in a lot of ways it's a totally unfair comparison. But, it depends on what you think the limiting factor is for your bike light. Size and weight of the light head, size weight of the battery pack, cost of the light. For me personally, the only limitation I really care about is the weight of the light head. Due to some neck issues, I simply can't ride with much weight on my head. I don't really care that much about any other factors. The 30W XM-L and 9W XPG light heads being compared here are the same size and weight.

With that being said, I seriously doubt I'll end up using a triple XM-L based light for myself. It's simply more light output than I really want. I haven't figured out a way to test this yet, but I suspect the triple XML light is so bright that your eyes actually dilate to compensate. If that's the case, it's going to make life tough for your riding buddies. I'm really just playing around with what's possible because it's fun.

I think the XML is significant because it's going to make it very easy to build reasonably sized light heads that can easily produce more light than anyone really needs. So, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Will people start to care more about cost, size, weight, or lumens. The technology isn't going to be the limiting factor much longer.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

MtbMacgyver said:


> The case has a driver in it behind the LEDs. The metal button on the top of the case presses a button on the driver board. You can look back at this thread if you want to see details of how the driver mounts.
> 
> I actually have this setup in two configurations right now. In one configuration the driver is in the light head and the drive current is 2 amps. In the other configuration, the h6flex is in the battery pack and the drive current is 3 amps.


Very, very nice. Hadn't appreciated the finess; the pushbutton switch is a lovely detail. Thanks for sharing.


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## darkhorse13 (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow, I know I am digging up a year old post, but does anyone know where I can find an exact parts list for a build like this? I am an extreme newby but willing to give it a try.

Thanks,
John


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## gfcipriani (Jun 3, 2008)

MtbMacgyver said:


> And my first finished XML based light. I just made modifications to the CNC files for my XPG triple case and cranked a few out. It's pretty amazing to have this kind of light output in a 78 gram light head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great work, all around. Do you sell any of your items? I realize that with cheap china knock-offs it may be tough to compete on price, but there is something to be said about good design and quality craftsmanship. I might be interested...


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

gfcipriani said:


> Great work, all around. Do you sell any of your items? I realize that with cheap china knock-offs it may be tough to compete on price, but there is something to be said about good design and quality craftsmanship. I might be interested...


Thanks, I've really enjoyed the lights. The only part that's kinda sad, is they meet my needs so well that I haven't had much motivation to do something new. Sorry, I don't sell them, this is pretty much stress relief from the day job and I tend to think selling them would make it too much like work.


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## SAVAGESAM (Jan 14, 2008)

MtbMacgyver said:


> Thanks, I've really enjoyed the lights. The only part that's kinda sad, is they meet my needs so well that I haven't had much motivation to do something new. Sorry, I don't sell them, this is pretty much stress relief from the day job and I tend to think selling them would make it too much like work.


Do you have parts lists/plans to look at? I'm SURE my first attempt will be a learning experience. But I REALLY want to try my hand. Thanks for this thread.


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