# 44mm headtube confusion



## experiment70 (Jan 2, 2006)

I'm two chain stays away from finishing a frame on which I decided to use Paragon's 44mm head tube. It took me a long time and a fair amount of money, but I finally got a Cyclus reamer/facer for use with the 44mm head tube. And now that I can ream and face, it occurs to me that I don't even understand what I'm prepping the head tube for.

I've been reading and trying to understand my options. I think I understand that I can buy a semi-integrated unit from either Cane Creek or Chris King with zero stack that will fit a 1.125" steerer. Is this the right part for a 1.125" steerer and a Paragon 44mm head tube?

I have a 1.125-1.5" tapered fork sitting in my garage I'd like to use. It looks like I can buy a top for a 1.125" fork, and a bottom for a 1.5", and make this work for my tapered steerer? Do I have this right?

Thanks for any help,

Forrest


----------



## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

experiment70 said:


> I have a 1.125-1.5" tapered fork sitting in my garage I'd like to use. It looks like I can buy a top for a 1.125" fork, and a bottom for a 1.5", and make this work for my tapered steerer? Do I have this right?
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> 
> Forrest


Yep thats what I used for this frame and tapered fork combo and it worked perfectly!








edit: I didn't use the paragon HT, instead I just used the TT one.


----------



## experiment70 (Jan 2, 2006)

Great. Thanks.


----------



## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

Has anybody used this stuff?

OS CRMO 45mm X 220 :: HEAD TUBES :: TUBES STEEL :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

I'm assuming its pretty much the same as the TT stuff used above Looks to me like theres a few typos on Novas site. 45 mm wouldn't leave a whole lot of material after reaming.
henry james requires insurance right?


----------



## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Teague said:


> Has anybody used this stuff?
> 
> OS CRMO 45mm X 220 :: HEAD TUBES :: TUBES STEEL :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.
> 
> ...


Someone who actually ordered the tube posted something some time ago that the Nova tube seemed too thin. I don't know if there was resolution.

AFAIK, no insurance required from HJ. Ordering over the phone is really simple. Though maybe things have changed as the last time I got something was probably a coupla years ago.


----------



## Meriwether (Jul 26, 2007)

i had confusion with this too. Yes, you need a internal cup up top and an external cup on bottom...so here's what I found were our options if you want to use a *tapered* 1.125"/1.5" steerer and a 44mm I.D headtube like the Paragon or True Temper's version that Walt had them make:

Chris King Inset 7 (i7)
or
Cane Creek 110.ZS44/EC44 and those cups are sold separately for some reason.

I'm not sure if that's and exhaustive list but those were all i found.

For a *non-tapered* steerer, you can use the Chris King InSet 1 or the Cane Creek ZS-44 (Series 40 is best as the cheaper model has a plastic bearing cup that can break!).


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Junk!*

Do not buy that tube. I don't know what it's for, but if you tried to use it for head tube stock and reamed it to 43.9mm, you'd be left with, like, paper thin walls. You could put an external sleeve on it, I guess, but at that point, why not get the TT or Paragon head tube, which are actually made to the correct standard?

I ordered one thinking the specs were a misprint - they are not.

-Walt



Teague said:


> Has anybody used this stuff?
> 
> OS CRMO 45mm X 220 :: HEAD TUBES :: TUBES STEEL :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.
> 
> ...


----------



## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Walt said:


> I ordered one thinking the specs were a misprint - they are not.
> 
> -Walt


That's exactly why I ordered it only to be dissapointed as well. It ended up being a detail on my last frame.
it's just a little too loose to use as bi-lam stock for the 42mm dt but it was a close enough radius for this;


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

experiment70 said:


> I'm two chain stays away from finishing a frame on which I decided to use Paragon's 44mm head tube. It took me a long time and a fair amount of money, but I finally got a Cyclus reamer/facer for use with the 44mm head tube. And now that I can ream and face, it occurs to me that I don't even understand what I'm prepping the head tube for.
> 
> I've been reading and trying to understand my options. I think I understand that I can buy a semi-integrated unit from either Cane Creek or Chris King with zero stack that will fit a 1.125" steerer. Is this the right part for a 1.125" steerer and a Paragon 44mm head tube?
> 
> ...


What is the headset bottom stack height you designed the frame for? There is about a 10mm difference between a zero stack and external cup. Makes more than 0.5 degree difference in the frame angles.


----------



## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

Feldybikes said:


> Someone who actually ordered the tube posted something some time ago that the Nova tube seemed too thin. I don't know if there was resolution.
> 
> AFAIK, no insurance required from HJ. Ordering over the phone is really simple. Though maybe things have changed as the last time I got something was probably a coupla years ago.


While you might be on the phone for a while, Henry James is great to order from and does not require any form of insurance at all.


----------



## sonic reducer (Apr 12, 2010)

I also have the paragon head tube(I'm getting ready to build). I cannot find any shops in the seattle area that have a 44mm reamer. I bought it before I checked into the availability of one. I am about to start asking machine shops, and might even switch to another head tube if it comes down to it, don't think I can justify my own reamer just yet.


----------



## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

sonic reducer said:


> I also have the paragon head tube(I'm getting ready to build). I cannot find any shops in the seattle area that have a 44mm reamer. I bought it before I checked into the availability of one. I am about to start asking machine shops, and might even switch to another head tube if it comes down to it, don't think I can justify my own reamer just yet.


I'm in Bellingham and have one.


----------



## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

sonic reducer said:


> I also have the paragon head tube(I'm getting ready to build). I cannot find any shops in the seattle area that have a 44mm reamer. I bought it before I checked into the availability of one. I am about to start asking machine shops, and might even switch to another head tube if it comes down to it, don't think I can justify my own reamer just yet.


If It doesn't work out with Teague's offer, you might get by with just buying parks 44mm cutter for less than a $100 and finding a shop with the park reamer.
I think Ebikestop was the cheapest when I was looking around

I bought the just the cutter and modified my BB chaser/facer into a HT reamer/facer.


----------



## experiment70 (Jan 2, 2006)

shiggy said:


> What is the headset bottom stack height you designed the frame for? There is about a 10mm difference between a zero stack and external cup. Makes more than 0.5 degree difference in the frame angles.


I drew it assuming 10 or 12mm stack - I knew nothing about the 44mm head tubes and zero stack headsets. This will work out fine with the external 1.5" bottom cup. Both my fork options, including the 1.125" straight steerer, need shortening, so I can customize the travel length to make up for the zero stack, if it comes to it. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but are there any updates on the Nova headtube? 
Nova now shows 46.4mm OD X 1.25mm wall. Doing the math put the wall thickness at 1.25 after reaming. 
TIA.


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Lon mentioned that they now have a 44mm-friendly head tube recently in a conversation with me. I did not think to ask about the old "head tube" that was not useful for anything that many of us bought.

-Walt


----------



## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

While on topic with tapered/44mm headtubes, what's the scoop with the new paragon machineworks tapered headtube. 1 1/8 upper and 1 1/4 lower. 

Are there any decent forks with a 1 1/4 lower taper?


----------



## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

Now if Nova would just add a seat tube that takes either a 30.9 or 31.6 dropper post.


----------



## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

88 rex said:


> While on topic with tapered/44mm headtubes, what's the scoop with the new paragon machineworks tapered headtube. 1 1/8 upper and 1 1/4 lower.
> 
> Are there any decent forks with a 1 1/4 lower taper?


yup- ENVE Tapered Carbon Fiber Road Fork


----------



## cable_actuated (Jun 7, 2012)

Jeremy - I can confirm the Nova 44mm headtube is as you described and not the old version. OD is 46.4. ID is just under 44mm.


----------



## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

Thank you Cable_Actuated! Just in-time, as I am placing an order this week!


----------



## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Semi-thread drift: WRT the Paragon 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 tapered tube (of which I was unaware before seeing this thread), who makes a headset for that? Is it the same as old 1 1/4 headtubes (e.g. Fisher circa 1993ish)? So, I guess you could do a custom King order for the headset. Anyone else?


----------



## cable_actuated (Jun 7, 2012)

After much procrastinating I'm ramping up for my next frame project that will use a 44 mm headtube.

I was planning on using the Nova 46.4 mm OD headtube with 1.25 mm walls (also similar to the True Temper one) but I'm starting to have second thoughts because of past failures brazing thinner-walled headtubes.

Any fillet brazers have experience using this tube either alone or with reinforcement rings?

I've had good results on my last two frames using the Nova 37 mm headtube with 1.6 mm walls. My heat control is getting better but is still far from perfect. I have to place an order from Paragon in the coming weeks so I'll order up one of their headtubes if others are getting major warpage with the Nova one.


----------



## thedudeman (Nov 10, 2006)

shirk said:


> Now if Nova would just add a seat tube that takes either a 30.9 or 31.6 dropper post.


HJ has one- it's 1-3/8 and 1.6/.8 
Previously is said 31.6, but the site shows 33.1?

I think it's verusstmag2


----------

