# Anyone ever get "bike simplification syndrome"?



## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

I love mountain biking, but I despise spending endless amounts of money on more gear. I've got a full suspension and a hardtail, (and a road bike and cross bike). Both mountain bikes are great for their intended purposes, but with bikes costing so much these days, the opportunity cost of keeping a $10,000 stable of bicycles bugs me. I also look at the FS, with all of its pivots mocking me, reminding that they’ll need to be serviced at some point, and its either going to require either my increasingly rare free time, or my hard-earned cash to get it done.

At times, I just want to sell everything and go for a rigid singlespeed, but I’ve been there before and it sucks. That’s why I have lots of bikes. Or is it? Have I been conned by the clever marketeers of expensive complex bicycle things? Or are the clever marketeers of rigid singlespeeds winning?

I hate mountain bikes. (but love mountain biking)


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

What? You want simplicity, convenience AND choice? As in at the same time? How novel.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

I do my own maintenance, but I hate working on bikes. Even though it's not all that difficult, just thinking of servicing suspension or changing bearings gives me a sick feeling and takes away from my enjoyment of the bikes.

I sold my FS bikes and now have 3 singlespeeds, 2 of which are rigid. There are some compromises, but it's nice to essentially only have chain maintenance and adjustment to worry about.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Yes. I've suffered from BSS.

Went the route of simplification for a long time, way back when, for the reasons you mentioned.

A big issue turned out to be failures of the rigid SS out on the trail due to pushing the bike too hard. Also trying to keep up with experienced riders on rugged terrain on 5" travel FS bikes. Maintenance was less but trail side failures seemed more common. However, that was then, and I had a lot more horsepower and mean-ness than I do now. And, as a matter of fact, I'm waiting on the new Surly KM frame to build up rigid, although geared.

Something about drivetrains - I've always had good luck and have had less issues per mile with geared transmissions than with SS transmissions. Not to mention, when riding variable terrain, SSing can be not so much fun, unless you have a killer motor.

But I think there is always a place for a rigid, old steel frame in the garage, to hang old parts on; to use as a mud bike; for a backup rig; and on those days when you just might want to go for an easy spin on the logging roads.


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## trav16 (Dec 29, 2010)

Yes. FS maintenance has me eyeing 27.5 hardtails.


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

Go Muni. Mountain Unicycle.

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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

A single speed with a suspension fork is still pretty simple.

And there is something to be said for the simplicity of a good single pivot fully.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

for when climbing is not important


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Every winter I take the rockshox fork off the hardtail and throw on the niner rdo fork. Currently running rigid but still with gears. Wish I had a dedicated rigid SS and a geared hardtail. Former car mechanic, I hate working on my own stuff.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

I am against simplifying anything. I like to complicate the hell out of everything. Where bikes are concerned, that means custom builds.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

msrothwe said:


> I love mountain biking, but I despise spending endless amounts of money on more gear. I've got a full suspension and a hardtail, (and a road bike and cross bike). Both mountain bikes are great for their intended purposes, but with bikes costing so much these days, the opportunity cost of keeping a $10,000 stable of bicycles bugs me. I also look at the FS, with all of its pivots mocking me, reminding that they'll need to be serviced at some point, and its either going to require either my increasingly rare free time, or my hard-earned cash to get it done.
> 
> At times, I just want to sell everything and go for a rigid singlespeed, but I've been there before and it sucks. That's why I have lots of bikes. Or is it? Have I been conned by the clever marketeers of expensive complex bicycle things? Or are the clever marketeers of rigid singlespeeds winning?
> 
> I hate mountain bikes. (but love mountain biking)


I have one bike, I guess that is how I keep it simple. Maybe I will need to change the pivot bearings every four years or so, we will see. My Pike is a little over 2 years old, and I spent an hour a while back removing the lowers to change the oil and grease the seals. No maintenance on the shock in 2 years. I have backup parts in the garage if an issue arises. I don't pay anyone to work on my bike because my experience is that it's way more trouble than doing it myself.

I don't really care what other people like, I prefer full-suspension, so that's what I ride.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

msrothwe said:


> At times, I just want to sell everything and go for a rigid singlespeed, but I've been there before and it sucks.


how dare you!?!?



> That's why I have lots of bikes. Or is it?


what i was thinking before i finished reading your post: for most people a SS (rigid or otherwise) doesn't make a great primary bike, but makes an excellent second or third!! given that it's somewhat less practical/versatile, a little rougher on the body (especially on long rough rides), and certainly more challenging in certain terrain, it's not for everyone on every day. but it's great on those days when you feel the need to punish your legs in a short period of time, are in a hurry and just want to grab the bike and go, really in the mood to connect with the bike and trail, or thinking to yourself "I'm getting too good at this, it's too easy." SS!



> Or are the clever marketeers of rigid singlespeeds winning?


marketers? no, not IMO. I think manufacturers would sell more of them if they brought back more simple (no boost, no PF), quality (631 and up), steel frames. (also not super slack trail geo, more 69-71 HTA) too many have gone to aluminum/carbon. there's a handful of 4130 frames available, but options are really limited if all your looking for is a threaded BB, sliders, and 44mm HT made of decent steel.

sorry, end rant.

rigid SS's are great. low entry price, super fun (my favorite thing to ride by far), almost zero maintenance, and it hurts more. what's not to love?



coke said:


> I sold my FS bikes and now have 3 singlespeeds, 2 of which are rigid.


now that's more like it!!!! :thumbsup:


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## LIA_TheGerman (Dec 17, 2016)

Currently my Main bike which is a Diamondback Mission, is built as a Single speed trail eating monster but I'm turning it into a 16 speed over the winter 

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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

My only bike is a rigid 1x7 presently geared for climbing sporting only the finest rim brakes *snort* (though when I can afford it, I'd like a rigid 10 speed fat bike of some sort with disk brakes). I put a rigid fork on it when the extremely basic suspension fork died back in the spring. It took a ride or two to get used to (especially some of the bumpier stuff), but yeah. Super easy to maintain and tons of fun.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Things that make you go hmmmmm..


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

noapathy said:


> What? You want simplicity, convenience AND choice? As in at the same time? How novel.


I think that unrealistic expectations are an important cornerstone of modern society. I'm just doing my part, okay?


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

Miker J said:


> Also trying to keep up with experienced riders on rugged terrain on 5" travel FS bikes.


This is a huge part of it I think. My friends have jobs now, so they have nicer bikes, so they go faster downhill so I have to have a nicer bike so I can go faster downhill. It's a silly arms race. We're going quantitatively faster, but I'm having just as much fun as I did back in college riding on a ragged out Trek 8000 with a barely functioning 5 year old Fox fork on it. Actually, I take that back. I was fitter then, and I actually think I had more fun then. (And that actually has nothing to do with the bike itself. Glean from that what you will)

Reliability is a large part of how I convinced myself to upgrade stuff, but it seems like my things break at about the same frequency as they did in college.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I used to have too many bikes. Paired it all down to one bike in 2008. Screwed around with different setups, but pretty much landed on a full rigid bike with 1x8 drivetrain. Then I built up what I like to think of as an exercise in minimalism....rigid steel, V-brakes, belt drive, 8-speed internal hub. Very little maintenance. Pretty much only need to air up the tires a couple times a month. I recently installed a modern "flex-stem" because my elbows have started to complain about the rigid fork, and it seems to be working well.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

For a while in grad school I wished I like (and can tolerate) running like I like mountain biking. Every time something on my mountain bike broke, I was stressed out about repair costs. 

I don't have a $10,000 stable by any means. But I certainly have nicer bikes now. And I do think they're more reliable. I'm also in a place in my life where it doesn't matter as much. 

There's this hedonistic adjustment thing, and I don't think I necessarily have more fun on my fancy new bikes than I would have had on the old one if I was having fun. But I never enjoyed screwing around with a flat or mechanical problem in the woods, or not as an adult with other commitments, and I never enjoyed being beat up. So maybe I'm having the same fun when I'm having fun, but I think I'm having fun more of the time on my new rides.

And the arms race plays into it too. I like racing. A good XC 29er is enough better than my old 26" hardtail to put me in a more intense part of my field.

I sometimes do think about which bikes I'd get rid of if I had to. I think I could make do with one road bike, I don't get much use out of my track bike lately, and with a little more planning, I could do without the mountain bike I keep at work. 

Thing is since most of my bikes aren't worth that much, the opportunity cost involved in hanging onto the ones I already have is really quite low, while they all have their particular use cases or times of year or convenience aspects they're the best at.

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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

Welcome to Minimalism. 

If something does not add joy to your life then get rid of it. 

If the value added ends up costing you more time and money than the joy it brings, get rid of it. 

If you can accomplish the goal without it, then be happy you don't need it.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I have two full squishy bikes... I'm trying to sell one, so I can upgrade parts on the other.....

It's proving to be, complicated ;-)


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Start racing motocross.....talk about maintenance and cost. I used to have a yz 125 and a yz 250 which I raced just about every weekend. You'd have to tear something down and replace parts on at least one of the bikes, seemingly every week. By comparison, bicycles are cheap and easy.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

I think you're more experiencing 'grass is greener' syndrome, or that thing where you think things are more complicated or more maintenance intensive than they are. 

Single speeds don't require less maintenance than gears; single speeders will never admit this, but the fact is gears require almost no maintenance. In the time the single speed fad came and went (early 2000s - early 2010s), I spent more time standing trailside waiting for singlespeeders to fix their bikes than I did setting up or adjusting my gears. Installing a deralleur and shifter takes.. maybe 10 minutes, adjustments... hard to say but I'd guess I spend <5 minutes a year on that. 

Suspension pivots taunting you, sure. After 3-4 years of use, you'll have to spend an hour replacing bearings. How are you ever going to find the free time for that? 

The real marketing you've fallen for is the idea that single speeds require less upkeep. You want proof: ride with a single speeder.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I've been back and forth on this over the years. When I was strong and uninjured, riding and racing rigid singlespeeds was a blast and totally simple. As I've gotten weaker, more fragile, and (frankly) more financially stable, I've collected a bike for just about everything.

I almost always do my own maintenance, and I don't particularly enjoy it. Some days, I long for 1 or 2 simple bikes that just work. 

Earlier this year, I spent an afternoon repeating the same mtb loop on 7 of my different bikes. That was eye-opening, esp the comparative times and thinking of the relative maintenance required to keep each bike going. The experiment didn't make we want to get rid of any of those 7 bikes, but I have a few more that I seriously haven't used for years. Those need to go!

I've tried to simplify my life in other areas, but haven't been able to commit to selling my extra bikes. Too many good memories and too little $$$ in return for giving them up.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

You need 7 bikes!? OMG...

And you compared them all on the same trail (pavement?).

A DH/FR bike will need a different agar plate than a Road bike ^^

Just flamin'

But still 7 bikes!?

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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

targnik said:


> You need 7 bikes!? OMG...
> 
> And you compared them all on the same trail (pavement?).
> 
> ...


Hell no, I never said I "need" 7 bikes!

I could easily get by with 2 bikes, probably my Surly Crosscheck (which is ~15years old) and a mountain bike (maybe my medium travel 29er).

BTW, I compared them on a 1 mile singletrack loop with about a quarter mile dirt road descent/ascent to get there and back.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

joules- disagree i run ss full squish easily half a season for local and away trips since '12 on xc, am and dh rides. have never experienced mechanical due to ss.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I simplified recently. Instead of 2 bikes (1 29er ht, 1 27.5 fs) I now have one ht frame, an Open Cycle Open+. It's a boost hardtail designed to take anything from 29x2.4 to 27.5x3.0. So I have two wheel sets. One (29x2.0) for xc riding/racing and one (27.5x3.0) for fun trail and endurance. Both sets have identical hubs and brakes, so the swap is super simple. I can carry the extra wheelset in the car in case I change my mind at the trailhead. Maintenance is a breeze...I have a new Fox 29er fork...way easier to work on than my Pike or SID was when I had two bikes.


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## Silent Drone (Jun 7, 2013)

Imo, the sweet spot on the spectrum of simplicity vs complexity is a geared 1x on a hard tail 29er with tires in the 2.35 range. I have only one MTN bike and this is my pick for most versitle all around bike in every way. It hits the goldilocks principle spot on. It climbs and desends very capably but of course it's not the best climber (like an xc rig) nor is it the best bomber (like a slack 160 travel rig). I've leaned toward more simplicity and tried ridged single speed but that was a little harsh and tok too much physically to push up hills. And I've leaned towards more complexity trying to find a super plush ride but that was a little to heavy and inefficient going up although the ride down more plush. 


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

And here I thought going to 1x was simplifying! 

I considered a Stache but realized that another HT will most likely hurt my lower back again, so I keep maintaining my FS year after year. 

In some ways, getting a road bike and gravel bike was a simplification due to lower maintenance needs over my FS.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I think there is way too much over thinking this sport these days.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I thought N+1 was the golden rule?  I have a CX bike because getting on the trails sometimes is tough for me and the MTB is just too heavy to ride it around the streets in my neighborhood. Now I'm close to doing a 29er rigid 1x11 build .. still need a few parts but this project is more of a learning experience for me than anything else. I'll end up w/3 bikes and then I'll be done. The good thing is I'll have a back up MTB just in case, and hopefully learn some real bike mechanics other than lubing my chain. :thumbsup:


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

My alternative take on simplicity: I've got one bike that is my go-to bike. Though it has 6 inches of travel, there are no adjustment knobs or lock-out levers that I need to mess with. It helps me be a better rider and help make my rides enjoyable even on days that I'm not 100%. It's the right bike for climbing and for descending because in Western Washington, any ride that has good descents also has decent sized climbs.

Full Disclosure: I have three bikes: a steel Ritchey road bike, a steel Kona Explosif with front suspension and the bike that I mention above, a Turner RFX.


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## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

My only focus is redundancy. If one bike breaks (it will) or is in need of immediate service the other is ready to go. Never be without. Between a fatbike and a FS 29er, I'm covered for any terrain, any season. Both bikes have many similar parts too, so I can pull from one another if something bad happens.

Cars terrify me, people aren't getting any better at driving them either, so I stick to the trails.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

I get what you are saying. I sold a few bikes and parts that were just hanging out in the garage this past summer and then I went ahead and put the money back into the hobby. I don't own an FS or hydraulic anything with the exception of 1 sus fork since I'd rather not give myself more maintenance to do. I love riding my SS and am going to be building a WI eccentric eno wheel to turn the geared into a S.implicity speed steed. I'm also looking at some thumbies to swap out the dual shifters I have on my newest fatty since the right doesn't like the cold. It's an odd issue, non existent in the warm weather, but will take some time to clean and figure out where to lube so I'm gonna swap it out to keep riding. I'll figure it out over some Bailey's and coffee or Bailey's and hot chocolate. In any case, maintenance is the price you pay for the rides you want to throw your leg over at a moment's notice. I just put me head down and do it so I can ride when the opportunity arises. That said, I do enjoy the maintenance monotony a little bit.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

I've settled on one bike that I know I will enjoy riding anywhere I care to ride. This works for me, because I'm pretty much an XC/trail rider. My approach isn't realistic if you range from XC racing to bike parks.

Buy the best bike you can afford and maintain it. Don't succumb to marketing hype. I'm still riding a 2009 Pivot Mach 4 and absolutely loving it. 26" wheels, 4" travel and (gasp!) no dropper post. The longer you ride a bike, the more you become one with it. It's telepathic at this point. I think it, and the bike responds. I kinda feel sorry for people that get a new bike every year.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I think there is way too much over thinking this sport these days.


Care to elaborate?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I think there is way too much over thinking this sport these days.


Would you mind providing some more details?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

noapathy said:


> Care to elaborate?


You are over-thinking DJ's post.


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## Meeners (Aug 16, 2016)

Well, by default - if you own and ride 4 bikes, you are dispersing the time you ride between all of them. In theory you will be maintaining just as much as if you had one bike since you ride them less.

Maybe look into a single pivot 1x bike and learn to do maintenance yourself. This was one of the reasons I decided to go with an antiquated bike to build up. The only bearing I need to replace are the left and right triangle pivot bearings. The forks are coil/oil and are as easy to service as a dirtbike, and hopefully by doing a 1x drivetrain there's not as much to worry about.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Now I think I was the one that was missing the point here...maybe. I need to think about this a little bit more to make sure I'm understanding exactly what's going on.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Last year about this time I had 2 bikes. 1 road bike and 1 26" HT. Maintenance on the road bike is pretty minimal, but HT always required some tweaking. Then about this time last year I found a old 7" freeride bike for an offer I could not refuse. That started my move to where I am now. Anyway I both liked and disliked that bike. In time I decided that I did like suspension, but that bike was too much for what I would ever ride. So I got a FS bike. However a few months before that I decided it was time to replace my 15 year old 26er with something newer and got a 29er HT. So before you know it was at 4 bikes instead of two although my old 26er was not really complete. Then started into single speed and dusted off my 26er to make SS bike from it. That worked for a bit, but then got the idea to get rid of 7" bike and traded it for a proper SS 26er. Some parts swap later and "settled" down to 4 active bikes

Road bike
29er HT -Carbon - For general riding/racing/bikepacking etc
27.5 5" trail bike - For DH use, shuttle rides and general "Big terrain"
26" SS - For local trails where I want to do SS - mostly shorter evening rides with SS friends, although I did do a 12 Duo race on it


Now I am looking a 29er SS to replace the 26" SS. I hope to keep the parts and built the 26er back geared for my daughter when she gets big enough. 

In the end is it more maintenance? Not really since the miles I ride are not really more than before. However I spread those miles over more bikes and if I do have problem with one I have backups. If I had to go to just one bike I could, but why. Each bike has its purpose and feel. I can not pick the bike that suits my mood for the day and group I will ride with vs taking what I have and hope it works. As for money spent. Since I got all these used I paid less for all these than one really nice new bike.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

My suggestion is that if the bike maintenance gets to be too much, buy a late-60s or early 70s musclecar. Then the bike will seem like a breeze.

If that does not work, buy a boat.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

JoePAz said:


> In the end is it more maintenance? Not really since the miles I ride are not really more than before. However I spread those miles over more bikes


Give it a little time. Sooner or later you'll come to realize that maintenance is multiplied by the number of bikes you have, not divided.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Not overly so. But I do like the new Karate Monkey. I'll never give up my geared FS bike, but I'd like to add a simpler steel mtb.

I have a steel touring bike I use as my commuter/road bike, which tends to get most of its miles in the spring and early summer, on paved or gravel greenway rides when the trails are sloppy. I'd like a change-of-pace mtb, too. I'd like it to be versatile. 29er or b+ tires. Rigid or suspension fork.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm running a 3x1 drive train..3 chainrings and one rear sprocket with Alfine tensioner. Thats about as simple as I can go. I forgot I was on my ridged when I did a drop 3 feet to flat last week. Simple is okay but...


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Bikes that sit with occasional don't require much maintenance. Maintenance is best done on a per mile basis. My road bike sees the easiest miles and really needs very little work. 1000 miles and maybe it needs chain lube. The mtn bikes see more abuse so have higher per mile maintenance rate, but that varies as well. Last evening I had a large flat rock get caught between my spokes and derailuer. Alignment is not quite right, but my trailside adjustment was good enough to finish the ride. I need to fine tune it back in. No time last night so today I am going to ride my SS. Last ride on this SS was a few weeks ago after 75 mile 5 lap 12 hr duo race. I checked it over last night and tires are good. I clean off some dirt and it might need some chain lube. I will get to the rear derailuer this weekend on the geared bike. Should not take long to dial back in. If I don't do the little things when I need it will pile up and I have have 4 busted bikes all at once.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

One reason I bought a Heckler in 2014 was easy maintenance for single Pivot but that was just a bonus.

Everyone has different opportunity cost of their time, but overall I enjoy working on my bikes myself. I just wish I had a real work bench and space.

If you are wearing out stuff on 3-4 different bikes at a similar frequent rate that means you are riding a ton. It's just a cost of doing business that you can manage by DIY.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cjsb said:


> One reason I bought a Heckler in 2014 was easy maintenance for single Pivot but that was just a bonus.
> 
> Everyone has different opportunity cost of their time, but overall I enjoy working on my bikes myself. I just wish I had a real work bench and space.
> 
> If you are wearing out stuff on 3-4 different bikes at a similar frequent rate that means you are riding a ton. It's just a cost of doing business that you can manage by DIY.


Yeah, there are some DIY-able jobs that I absolutely hate, and will pay someone else to do every time, no questions asked. Auto maintenance is one of them. Even though it's dead simple and can save a lot of dough, I'll pay someone to change the oil in my car. I used to do all my own car maintenance. Did it that way for a long time. And learned to DESPISE it. Of course that's all in my head, but it's just better for my mental health to avoid it.

I actually ENJOY working on my own bikes. Won't get trained as a wrench at the shop, though. I have had plenty of opportunity to do that. But I don't want to hate wrenching on my own bikes. I just got a nice wheels mfg bearing press to handle pf bb's and I'm super excited about it. That's one more service item I can do at home, instead of dragging the bike into the shop to do (I already had what I need to remove the bb).


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

JACKL said:


> You are over-thinking DJ's post.


Or perhaps he's busy overthinking mine? Still no response.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

2017 Scott Scale 720 Plus bike.

I feel privileged to ride and wrench on this bike. If I see the least little thing that needs attention I get right to it.
It Is a passion.

It's a 1x11 now


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I've actually gone back to doing most of my car maintenance. I did it years ago when I was a kid but then started going to the oil change places and having shops work on my cars. But then I had several bad experiences with shops. 

My wife's van started dripping oil; the dealer said the oil pan would need to be replaced as the plug threads were stripped. I got under and started loosening the plug, it was fine. The oil change place had left off the crush washer. Not going back to that dealer nor the old change place.

When my Subaru started making a bad noise, shop told me it was the compressor and it would be $1000+ and needed to be done before it flew apart and caused more damage. Dealer said it was the alternator, which had been replace recently. Shop that had replaced the alternator said it was fine. Dealer checked again and found it was just a tensioning pulley; due to the hassle they replaced for the cost of the part $70. Not going back to the first shop, would go back to the second (manager is a mt biker) but no longer live nearby, quit going to the dealer after a couple more similar incidences and they more than doubled their price just to diagnose. 

So yeah, like bike maintenance, I really don't like spending the time but I do like saving the money. A lot of car repairs are just electrical parts burning out. Hassle is getting them in and out. Shops seem to really charge a lot now-a-days, I understand padding the time some but charging two or three hours for a twenty minute job, no thanks.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

BSS? I was born with it. It went undiagnosed for many years.

I tried various suspension therapies to snap out of it, but I always relapsed. With counseling, I've learned to accept and live with it.

-F


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

chazpat said:


> I've actually gone back to doing most of my car maintenance. I did it years ago when I was a kid but then started going to the oil change places and having shops work on my cars. But then I had several bad experiences with shops.
> 
> My wife's van started dripping oil; the dealer said the oil pan would need to be replaced as the plug threads were stripped. I got under and started loosening the plug, it was fine. The oil change place had left off the crush washer. Not going back to that dealer nor the old change place.
> 
> ...


Pretty much the same here. I bought one nearly new car in my life, and decided I never wanted another 5-year payment or to pay that much again. I drive an 06 Tahoe and my daughter drives a 1993 Dodge Ramcharger. Both off Craigslist. I fix them both myself. No debts or payments, and once a car is running properly and you maintain it, they just seem to go forever.


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

chazpat said:


> I've actually gone back to doing most of my car maintenance. I did it years ago when I was a kid but then started going to the oil change places and having shops work on my cars. But then I had several bad experiences with shops.
> 
> My wife's van started dripping oil; the dealer said the oil pan would need to be replaced as the plug threads were stripped. I got under and started loosening the plug, it was fine. The oil change place had left off the crush washer. Not going back to that dealer nor the old change place.
> 
> ...


What I have learned with more years of experience is that dealers are where new mechanics learn to fix cars, while the guys that know the ropes well enough to build up a loyal following of customers open up their own shops. Especially with Yelp, other review sites, and comments on forums, independent mechanics are the way to go. Higher quality work without the paying the overhead for a dealerships' space to sell cars.

One service writer told me that I needed to change out the swingarms in my car suspension after 100k miles because they might break due to accumulated stress. The guy said that with a completely straight face even after I called him on it.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

chazpat said:


> I've actually gone back to doing most of my car maintenance.


Frankly, I don't know that you can call yourself a man if you don't change your own oil...


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Superfly SS
Natureboy CX SS

not sure i could get much more simplified, so no yearning. occasionally i dream of a big travel bike when i'm in moab, but those thoughts go away before i pony up 6k.

i don't like doing much bike maintenance either. my superfly bottom bracket has been squeaking for weeks and i keep putting it off.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2016)

Haven't quite gone full circle back to the Schwinn typhoon with a two speed kick-back, but I have gone to rigid with a Fargo and I'm currently down to that and a recumbent. I'm somewhat considering trading that off for a Fat Bike, but I could also just pick-up a second wheelset and go 650b+ on the Fargo.


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## tony_mm (Dec 1, 2016)

*Anyone ever get "bike simplification syndrome"?*

I had at one time 8 bikes. Too much maintenance, too much space, too many spare parts, too expensive, etc..

I sold all of them except my 25 y.o. road bike that I now use for the winter/ rain/ home trainer and then I bought a nice new road bike and two used MTB (26"), an hardtail and a full suspension.

Both MTB have the same components so maintenance and spare parts are easy to do/ have.

Still too much maintenance...One day I will have only two or maybe only one!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I think there is way too much over thinking this sport these days.





noapathy said:


> Care to elaborate?





chazpat said:


> Would you mind providing some more details?





JACKL said:


> You are over-thinking DJ's post.





noapathy said:


> Or perhaps he's busy overthinking mine? Still no response.


Sorry for the delay, I've almost got a life outside of this site.

I think JACKL nailed it.

But I'll elaborate to ease the minds of the sleepless.

Full suspension, hard tail, rigid, fat bike, gravel bike, carbon, aluminum, new geometry, old geometry, single speed, 3x,2x,1x, 8 speed, 9 speed, 10 speed, 11 speed, dropper post, rigid post, set back post, 26", 27.5", 29" plus size, straight bars, riser bars, road bike, commuter bike, I'm running out of breath here that's all. 

Hop on a bike and ride it. Yes, a quiver of bikes is nice but one can get by with one two three maybe four bikes. Alright then four bikes is perfect, wait maybe 5...now I'm confused. :incazzato:


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

"Ever get bike simplification syndrome" - no.

I have a bike for every mood and a beer of choice for each kind of maintenance. 
I rarely "need" to maintain my bikes because I am ahead of it. 
My SS and my FS XC bike see the most miles, but I have a couple hardtails and a trail bike that get use when the time comes. Then there is the road bike and adventure tourer.

My wife puts up with it because I use them all. 
I don't get bored with them because some of my bikes ride so unique, it keeps the feeling fresh. 

Regarding maintenance... working on my bike to me is like gardening to old people. I enjoy the alone time and reaping the rewards of my efforts.

-----------
As for the comment on SS breaking more than geared... I have never experienced a SS break down. My own or someone I have ridden with. I also have participated in the SSWC and I don't recall one broken bike and people there were racing carbon, steel, ti, and old beach cruisers with flat bars. 

That said... if you neglect your bike, it will break regardless of how many gears it has.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Harold said:


> Yeah, there are some DIY-able jobs that I absolutely hate, and will pay someone else to do every time, no questions asked. Auto maintenance is one of them. Even though it's dead simple and can save a lot of dough, I'll pay someone to change the oil in my car. I used to do all my own car maintenance. Did it that way for a long time. And learned to DESPISE it. Of course that's all in my head, but it's just better for my mental health to avoid it.
> 
> I actually ENJOY working on my own bikes. Won't get trained as a wrench at the shop, though. I have had plenty of opportunity to do that. But I don't want to hate wrenching on my own bikes. I just got a nice wheels mfg bearing press to handle pf bb's and I'm super excited about it. That's one more service item I can do at home, instead of dragging the bike into the shop to do (I already had what I need to remove the bb).


Agree on enjoyment from working on my bikes. I also know a lot more about my bikes because I do the work.

Your excitement over the new press reminded me that when I replaced the bearings on my Heckler earlier this year I had a hard time getting the Santa Cruz bearing tool to work, on the drive side it seemed impossible. Then I remembered I have this awesome King Hub tool that I bought 10 years ago. I got that out and sure enough one of the gadgets on the King that captures the bearing worked perfectly and when the press was tightened down the fit was so rock rolls it just took a reasonable tap to dislodge. Those "zen" moments are very enjoyable.

Then I started thinking that if I ever got a PF bearing bike that the King Hub tool would likely work magic on that, too. Oh, and then earlier this year I did a full rebuild of my rear King hub on my 29er, the tool is magic, and once I got everything apart I was able to diagnose a problem I was having with the hub having side to side play and got the replacement part from King at no charge. So much more beneficial for me than dropping off the bike and picking it up 3 weeks later for $300 bill--and me knowing nothing about it.

But when you do your own work (at least for me) you need more than one bike as I do work slowly.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Full suspension, hard tail, rigid, fat bike, gravel bike, *STEEL: the best frame material!,* carbon, aluminum, new geometry, old geometry, single speed, 3x,2x,1x, 8 speed, 9 speed, 10 speed, 11 speed, dropper post, rigid post, set back post, 26", 27.5", 29",* B+/29+*, straight bars, riser bars, road bike, commuter bike, I'm running out of breath here that's all.


fixed, i knew you felt the same way I do.

("plus size" is for clothing)


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

bloaker said:


> Regarding maintenance... working on my bike to me is like gardening to old people. I enjoy the alone time and reaping the rewards of my efforts.


I'm surprised that it took so long for someone to say this.

I worked in a bike shop for a couple years, and the act of working on a bike isn't that bad. I don't mind working on cars either. What I really don't like is NEEDING to work on a bicycle or car.

The opportunity cost of my time working on said bikes bugs me as well. The action of working on the bike isn't too bad, but I'd rather be riding, or hiking or just chillin on a patio deck outside with a cold beer. I feel the same about my actual job though, so maybe it isn't too weird. I don't hate my job, I'd just rather be doing other things during the day that aren't engineering.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Sorry for the delay, I've almost got a life outside of this site.
> 
> I think JACKL nailed it.
> 
> ...


Started to get that same feeling when I hear "We Didn't Start the Fire" where I sorta know the words, but I really don't. :cornut:

P.S. Wait, you leave the computer all alone? Like to do something else? You need the new laptop mount for your bike. Never. Done. Upgrading!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

noapathy said:


> Started to get that same feeling when I hear "We Didn't Start the Fire" where I sorta know the words, but I really don't. :cornut:
> 
> P.S. Wait, you leave the computer all alone? Like to do something else? You need the new laptop mount for your bike. Never. Done. Upgrading!
> 
> View attachment 1111764


I work from home that might do it! but the laptop must match the bike


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jcd46 said:


> I work from home that might do it! but the laptop must match the bike


I'd be afraid of crashing into the wall with the laptop obstructing my vision.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> I work from home that might do it! but the laptop must match the bike


Weird and verging on lame, but I actually put in 1150 miles riding this while working from home this year. A great way to recover from a back injury and get in shape...

Spinner Desk by Brad Baker, on Flickr


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

baker said:


> Weird and verging on lame, but I actually put in 1150 miles riding this while working from home this year. A great way to recover from a back injury and get in shape...
> 
> Spinner Desk by Brad Baker, on Flickr


Lol sweet! If you are not pulling my leg...not lame at all. ? great idea.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'd be afraid of crashing into the wall with the laptop obstructing my vision.


Only if distracted by sexy pictures 😁


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> Lol sweet! If you are not pulling my leg...not lame at all. 👍 great idea.


Not pulling your leg. Helped me get off of the couch after 14 months of injury/surgery/recovery/reinjury/slothfullness. I used a solo 18 hour race in early May as my motivation. It worked 

I suspect that I'll put a bunch more miles on this setup over this winter, but my health and a fatbike will allow me to get outside more this season.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

baker said:


> Not pulling your leg. Helped me get off of the couch after 14 months of injury/surgery/recovery/reinjury/slothfullness. I used a solo 18 hour race in early May as my motivation. It worked
> 
> I suspect that I'll put a bunch more miles on this setup over this winter, but my health and a fatbike will allow me to get outside more this season.


Pretty cool! Bummer is I'm on the phone a lot so I couldn't be out of breath, good to hear you are recovering though.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> Pretty cool! Bummer is I'm on the phone a lot so I couldn't be out of breath, good to hear you are recovering though.


Thanks, and I got a stereo Bluetooth headset/mic to deal with the noise issue. While on con calls I would just spin with really low resistance. Definitely could not push the pace like a normal spin session.

Sent from my A1 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

baker said:


> Weird and verging on lame, but I actually put in 1150 miles riding this while working from home this year. A great way to recover from a back injury and get in shape...
> 
> Spinner Desk by Brad Baker, on Flickr


This is awesome, now if you could make it so the computer is fed from power / energy from pedaling you'd be rich.


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## Trevor Ochmonek (May 9, 2015)

Sell the bikes and buy a couple knitting needles and some yarn.. boom, simplified and no more bítching about having too many choices. But your new hobby will require a lot of unsimplified learning with less equipment to maintain.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

baker said:


> Weird and verging on lame, but I actually put in 1150 miles riding this while working from home this year. A great way to recover from a back injury and get in shape...


I agree with the others - pretty creative solution. Might want to put a mat down to protect the wood floor from sweat.



jcd46 said:


> Only if distracted by sexy pictures 


Time to practice riding with no hands... :eekster:


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> This is awesome, now if you could make it so the computer is fed from power / energy from pedaling you'd be rich.


don't the power units for computers require like 300 watts?

he'd need some big legs to get any work done on the computer.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

noapathy said:


> Time to practice riding with no hands... :eekster:


i thought that's what those elongated holes in the tops of seats are for.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

noapathy said:


> I agree with the others
> 
> Good Point sir! :thumbsup:


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

If I went back to one bike, this is the one I would keep. Rides like a hardtail, but with 1" travel to take the edge off. Pivotless for ease of maintenance. Mechanical disk brakes are easy to adjust. 3x9 parts are cheap. Just need to go back to a lower maintenance wheelset. This bike has been nearly flawless for the 12 years and 15,000 miles I have ridden it. 
I will likely pick up the 29" version of the same bike and then get rid of most of the others in the stable.


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## BykerMike (Aug 3, 2016)

Right now I only have one bike of my own, a 27.5" HT. My wife has a 26" HT, son has a 26" HT (my old bike), daughter has a 20" BMX that I built up for her. After Xmas I'll have a FS 27.5 and daughter will have a 27.5 HT but will probably keep the 20" also because she's getting interested in skate parks and I'll keep my HT as a second bike.

Lots of bikes to maintain. So far the girls bikes aside from adjusting brakes and tire pressure have been pretty easy, me and my son's bike require much more attention. 

I don't mind wrenching, but bike tools are expensive and space is a commodity in my garage. I really need a cheap effective storage solution more than anything. Back on track though I could see trading the HT for a somewhat trail capable DJ HT and having the FS as a primary trail bike.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

Bike Simplification? That's BS.

In all seriousness, the joy of riding the bike I really want to ride (short-travel full-suspension) far outweighs the cost and time of maintaining it. For those jobs I don't want to do or don't have the tools for (fork overhaul), I take it to the LBS in the dead of winter (right about now) and it's done the next day. No big deal.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

golden boy said:


> Bike Simplification? That's BS.
> 
> In all seriousness, the joy of riding the bike I really want to ride (short-travel full-suspension) far outweighs the cost and time of maintaining it. For those jobs I don't want to do or don't have the tools for (fork overhaul), I take it to the LBS in the dead of winter (right about now) and it's done the next day. No big deal.


Oh sure ruin a good rant. Now boys what else can we complain about that doesn't really have a valid point?


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

_CJ said:


> Frankly, I don't know that you can call yourself a man if you don't change your own oil...


I used to change my own oil. Still do on occasion if my wife is too busy. Yeah, you read that right. She changes the oil on both of our vehicles. She loves doing it.

Her dad raised her to be self reliant and taught her how to work on cars, so doing stuff like that reminds her of him now that he has passed away.

I still rotate the tires to keep my man card.

Besides, I don't have time to work on cars when I have a whole garage full of bikes to maintain. The wife and our 4 kids all ride, and I do all the maintenance.


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## Makten (Feb 25, 2014)

I think simplification is a great idea if you have the kind of personality that it takes. But you don't have to overdo it by going rigid SS.

I have four bikes, and the one I like most is the simplest one; a slackish 27.5" SS HT. If I hade to choose only one bike to "do it all", it would be this HT, but I would add 1x10 gears or so (it _was_ 1x11, but I wanted a challenge). It's just too slow for paved roads as a SS geared for trail. 
It has fairly long reach and not-too-steep saddle angle, which makes it fairly suitable for longer transportation rides. As soon as I leave the saddle (I don't sit on it at all while riding trails), it transforms into a toy. At 12.5 kilos with chunky tires it feels very agile.

I could easily live with only having this bike.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I would have BSS but they really don't bring anything used so I keep them around for the kids or friends.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh sure ruin a good rant. Now boys what else can we complain about that doesn't really have a valid point?


I hate people raining on the parade. Pretty sure it's a syndrome. Gonna go with D.R.O.P.S. for the acronym because of the tears shed (which often go unseen in the rain).

Dudes Raining on Parade Syndrome :cryin:

Also, for the OP...just about done finishing a new build of a 2011 Trance frame to ADD to the collection. Apparently, I can't do simple.


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

I went from 6 bikes concurrently to 2. Why that many? I don't really know. I was younger, in better shape, had more time and have a great wife.

Two were overlap; short travel XC FS bikes, 1 fully rigid single speed, 1 steel XC hardtail, 1 FS long travel trail bike, 1 road bike.

I whittled it down to the trail bike and the hardtail. On the trail bike, I went to 1x9 and removed the fork mounted fork remote control. No dropper needed.

The hardtail is still a 3x8 (yes, 8) with v-brakes. For where and how I ride, it's perfectly fine.

I may build back up one of the XC FS bikes.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

In retrospect, 8 to 9 was a fairly pointless upgrade on my hardtail. Some of the individual component changes were a little better, but I don't think it rides any better than if I just put a nicer 8-speed shifter on it. I'm not planning to take it past 9-speed, though I suppose if I kill a shifter or derailleur, it'll be a possibility.

Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> In retrospect, 8 to 9 was a fairly pointless upgrade on my hardtail. Some of the individual component changes were a little better, but I don't think it rides any better than if I just put a nicer 8-speed shifter on it. I'm not planning to take it past 9-speed, though I suppose if I kill a shifter or derailleur, it'll be a possibility.
> 
> Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


I am keeping the HT at 8. I am running sweet 8 speed XTR Rapidfire 
shifters/brakes, so no way those are getting replaced.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I rode a $2500 FS bike at the LBS and the sales person gave me lip about trying it out. Someone had a topic about how much they enjoyed their lower priced bike-I went to look at a rockhopper. They did not have one in my size but they said this Trek($700) was similar, I immediately bought it.








I have a 2014 $600 Specialized Sirrus Sport hybrid. I have no complaints about either of these bikes and have no desire to buy any more bikes. Bought myself a brand new water bottle for Christmas! Whoo Hoo!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

noapathy said:


> I hate people raining on the parade. Pretty sure it's a syndrome. Gonna go with D.R.O.P.S. for the acronym because of the tears shed (which often go unseen in the rain).
> 
> Dudes Raining on Parade Syndrome :cryin:
> 
> Also, for the OP...just about done finishing a new build of a 2011 Trance frame to ADD to the collection. Apparently, I can't do simple.


Hey this parade is mine as much as it is yours. If I decide I want rain I'll order it, thank you.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

I bought a Bucksaw two years ago and built two sets of wheels for it. I run 650b+ most of the year and 26" x 4" in winter. Love the bike so much I sold my old Nomad and the Blur LT. I also own a rigid carbon fat bike that is simple enough. I never ride my SS anymore so am thinking about selling it and buying a long travel AM bike. I figure since I unloaded two bikes this year I'm due for at least one new one. 

Mechanical work can be therapy if you approach it right. No pressure and enough beer makes it enjoyable.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

One speed, front forks. Ride her hard, put her away wet. Change the tires, lube the chain. Check you ego, you won't win any races, you won't make some climbs, but your bike will last a very long time with very little work and you won't be participating in the social illness you correctly identified as the exclusification of yet another aspect of our culture to be reserved and sold to only the most affluent tools, or less affluent but affected idiots that drop a ridiculous % of their income on a bicycle.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

Any moving part at one time or another is going to wear out and fail given x amount of time. Yes, the less moving parts you have on the bike, the less maintenance and cost you will incur but we ride bikes because they are fun and are willing to incur the costs.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

DaveVt said:


> One speed, front forks. Ride her hard, put her away wet. Change the tires, lube the chain. Check you ego, you won't win any races, you won't make some climbs, but your bike will last a very long time with very little work and you won't be participating in the social illness you correctly identified as the exclusification of yet another aspect of our culture to be reserved and sold to only the most affluent tools, or less affluent but affected idiots that drop a ridiculous % of their income on a bicycle.


Where is the line between affluent tool and affected idiot? Just curious which one I am...

What is the cost cap on this front suspension SS? I mean, all of my bikes are geared, so I'm obviously one of bad ones, but I'm unsure of how much I'm allowed to spend should I come to Jesus and begin riding with god.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I switched from affected tool to affluent idiot shockingly fast. Shoulda done it sooner.

Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Quentin said:


> Where is the line between affluent tool and affected idiot? Just curious which one I am...
> 
> What is the cost cap on this front suspension SS? I mean, all of my bikes are geared, so I'm obviously one of bad ones, but I'm unsure of how much I'm allowed to spend should I come to Jesus and begin riding with god.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You'll have to fill in some of the variables for us. What's your annual income vs. annual expenditures? Just go back for the last decade. The let's see some video of you riding the most challenging trail you like. 
There is a chance you are an affluent ripper who spends a reasonable % of their resources on an 10K bike who then rides like a wizard....those types are very rare. 
Drop 6 grand on an MTB so you can ride easy trails all day and never leave the ground? You're not a "Bad One", just a victim. Kind of like folks who voted for Trump. Not all of them are bad, just victims of marketing.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I switched from affected tool to affluent idiot shockingly fast. Shoulda done it sooner.
> 
> Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


You just decided one day to become affluent? Sounds like effluent to me.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Makten said:


> I think simplification is a great idea if you have the kind of personality that it takes. But you don't have to overdo it by going rigid SS.
> 
> I have four bikes, and the one I like most is the simplest one; a slackish 27.5" SS HT. If I hade to choose only one bike to "do it all", it would be this HT, but I would add 1x10 gears or so (it _was_ 1x11, but I wanted a challenge). It's just too slow for paved roads as a SS geared for trail.
> It has fairly long reach and not-too-steep saddle angle, which makes it fairly suitable for longer transportation rides. As soon as I leave the saddle (I don't sit on it at all while riding trails), it transforms into a toy. At 12.5 kilos with chunky tires it feels very agile.
> ...


Huh. Nice. This is my one and only bike. I am very happy with it.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I got rid of extra bikes. I'm down to a Singlespeed, that is a smart build and pretty maintenance free (fork oil changes). I have a 2012 Turner 5 Spot that has no bearings in frame (bushings). I quit, over maintaining, my Chris King hubs, thanks to the 3 year drought in CA. $400 Road bike is zero maintenance, as I ride it 2 days per month in rain. I am so happy that I got rid of 2 or 3 extra bikes that I had. I never miss them, and I still look at pictures of them as I scroll through iPad photos (and think to myself, "I really don't miss all that extra maintenance"). 

I had a great riding 2008 GT Carbon Marathon XTR. It was the most maintenance heavy POS I have ever owned. It rode great, but I learned a lot about what my time was worth, as I continuously wasted time rebuilding the pivots, or mailed torn down frame for warranty work. Buying a used, beat down Singlespeed was also a lesson in time wasting activities, but a great step towards pain addiction. Breaking worn out items, or trying to upgrade parts I would not have spec'd, was futile. Now my bikes are custom home builds, built for durability, with low maintenance as a priority. No, that's not cheap, nor lightweight. 2 low maintenance bikes is awesome!


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

What maintenance? 27.5 HT.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

DaveVt said:


> social illness you correctly identified as the exclusification of yet another aspect of our culture to be reserved and sold to only the most affluent tools, or less affluent but affected idiots





AndrwSwitch said:


> I switched from affected tool to affluent idiot shockingly fast. Shoulda done it sooner.


Don't pick on Dave. 
I am of the opinion that he has spent several years in college and is now working at the quicky mart. Someday he will get his professorship, and he will be able to expound his words of wisdom to hungry young minds who will absorb his every word.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm kind of in DaveVT's corner on the marketing victims. If you ride 200 days per year, spending $7,000 on a bike makes sense to me. But a $7,000 bike for somebody that logs 30 rides a year? Seems kind of expensive to me ($233 per outing, before maintenance). Spend your money your way, It's the USA, I'll admit to that.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

hoolie said:


> I'm kind of in DaveVT's corner on the marketing victims. If you ride 200 days per year, spending $7,000 on a bike makes sense to me. But a $7,000 bike for somebody that logs 30 rides a year? Seems kind of expensive to me ($233 per outing, before maintenance). Spend your money your way, It's the USA, I'll admit to that.


The most entertaining folks to bump into on the trail are the ones with sick bikes who can barely ride. Or over weight folks on carbon bikes. Or folks who HAVE to buy a new bike because wheel or tire size changed. Is it reasonable to spend 10% of your annual income on a new pedal bike? I'd say no. If you have the coin but are new to the sport and suck....and buy a $7,000 dollar bike you are the definition of a poser. If you are making 45K a year and drop $7,000 on a bike you are the definition of ghetto rich, brainwashed by marketing and materialism. Merry Christmas. :thumbsup:


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

hoolie said:


> I'm kind of in DaveVT's corner on the marketing victims. If you ride 200 days per year, spending $7,000 on a bike makes sense to me. But a $7,000 bike for somebody that logs 30 rides a year? Seems kind of expensive to me ($233 per outing, before maintenance). Spend your money your way, It's the USA, I'll admit to that.


Is that $7000 bike worth $0 and/or unridable after 1 year (30 outings)? Or could said buyer potentially use it more than 1 year?

Come on, that math is based on a silly premise.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

Im curious, if someone can afford it and they dump money into the economy, why do you give a **** about how they ride? Jealousy rears its head in different ways.

Buy what gives you a hardon and use it whoever you feel.

Posers are the ones judging others for not riding how someone else wants. Get over you self rightiousness and ride you ride on your bike and choose to be happy.


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## Makten (Feb 25, 2014)

DaveVt said:


> Is it reasonable to spend 10% of your annual income on a new pedal bike? I'd say no. If you have the coin but are new to the sport and suck....and buy a $7,000 dollar bike you are the definition of a poser. If you are making 45K a year and drop $7,000 on a bike you are the definition of ghetto rich, brainwashed by marketing and materialism. Merry Christmas. :thumbsup:


How about applying that reasoning to cars? Or homes. Or almost anything.

Most people (in western countries) don't need 1/10 of what they own, but for some reason expensive bikes are very offensive, when at the same time it's considered normal to buy a $30000 car, that loses half its value in like two years.  And no one expects you to be a better driver, the more expensive your car is.

[I don't own a car, by the way]


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2016)

bloaker said:


> I'm curious, if someone can afford it and they dump money into the economy, why do you give a **** about how they ride?


 I don't even care if they can afford it. To quote my father, "unless I'm paying your bills, I don't care what you do with your money."


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

DaveVt said:


> You just decided one day to become affluent? Sounds like effluent to me.


Took more than a day. But kinda. I've had a few bikes around most of the time for years. I've usually had a road, a mountain and a commuter. When I was doing stagecraft, none of those was very expensive and lots of things involving money took some cleverness if not usually a lot of struggle. When the economy freaked out, I went back to school for engineering. I think nobody was surprised when after finishing that and getting a few months into my current job, I went out and bought a shiny new XC bike.

That bike's going 1x11 this week. Not sure if that counts as simplifying for purposes of this thread. 

Before going back to school, I tied myself in knots trying to justify my bikes. Now it's pretty simple. If I think I'm going to ride a bike a lot and enjoy it, and I feel comfortable with the price, I buy it. They're proportionally more of my income, I suppose, but a lot less of my disposable income. That's living wage vs. not really for you. $7000's still more than I've spent. More than I've spent on a car too, actually. My 2000 Pathfinder's getting a little louder but still takes me to work.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I have always lived with this syndrome, hence:

My Surly Krampus








Having grown up in the world of BMX, I was never really into lots of tech on my bikes. Fully rigid, steel, simple to maintain. The only "techy" thing on it is the drivetrain, so the SS guys will probably give me crap for that...


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

Forster said:


> I don't even care if they can afford it. To quote my father, "unless I'm paying your bills, I don't care what you do with your money."


Exactly!!!


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

*Anyone ever get "bike simplification syndrome"?*



AndrwSwitch said:


> Took more than a day. But kinda. I've had a few bikes around most of the time for years. I've usually had a road, a mountain and a commuter. When I was doing stagecraft, none of those was very expensive and lots of things involving money took some cleverness if not usually a lot of struggle. When the economy freaked out, I went back to school for engineering. I think nobody was surprised when after finishing that and getting a few months into my current job, I went out and bought a shiny new XC bike.
> 
> That bike's going 1x11 this week. Not sure if that counts as simplifying for purposes of this thread.
> 
> Before going back to school, I tied myself in knots trying to justify my bikes. Now it's pretty simple. If I think I'm going to ride a bike a lot and enjoy it, and I feel comfortable with the price, I buy it. They're proportionally more of my income, I suppose, but a lot less of my disposable income. That's living wage vs. not really for you. $7000's still more than I've spent. More than I've spent on a car too, actually. My 2000 Pathfinder's getting a little louder but still takes me to work.


I rode a Rockhopper through college. When I finished my co-op with a major car manufacturer that resulted in an engineering job offer and a $7500 moving bonus, I packed all my things into a $250 U-haul rental and promptly purchased a Cannondale Scalpel. I rode that bike for 6 years and loved the heck out of it. The guy I sold it to still has it. I've definitely considered buying it back.

Here it is the day I picked it up. I hadn't even pulled the black plate off the wheel yet. Haha









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveVt said:


> The most entertaining folks to bump into on the trail are the ones with sick bikes who can barely ride. Or over weight folks on carbon bikes. Or folks who HAVE to buy a new bike because wheel or tire size changed. Is it reasonable to spend 10% of your annual income on a new pedal bike? I'd say no. If you have the coin but are new to the sport and suck....and buy a $7,000 dollar bike you are the definition of a poser. If you are making 45K a year and drop $7,000 on a bike you are the definition of ghetto rich, brainwashed by marketing and materialism. Merry Christmas. :thumbsup:


For you that sounds like a reasonable guide, but not sure why it would matter to you how much someone else spends or their rationale?

You might find it more productive to make friends with the "posers" and then make an offer on their 1 year old "worthless" bike when they are driven to the latest new bike. At the very least you can eBay the "worthless" bikes and soon YOU earn enough to buy the new $7k bike for yourself. Then you can not only feel superior to the "posers" on the trail, but they will envy you as well.

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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

cjsb said:


> For you that sounds like a reasonable guide, but not sure why it would matter to you how much someone else spends or their rationale?
> 
> You might find it more productive to make friends with the "posers" and then make an offer on their 1 year old "worthless" bike when they are driven to the latest new bike. At the very least you can eBay the "worthless" bikes and soon YOU earn enough to buy the new $7k bike for yourself. Then you can not only feel superior to the "posers" on the trail, but they will envy you as well.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Western consumerism drives the most evil dynamic the world has ever known. I don't need a new bike. I have my 16 year old SS HT.
Never bought a new car in my life.


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## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

Variety is the spice of life for me. I've been going high-tech, then simplified, then back to high-tech, as I took breaks from riding and rebuilt my fitness and handling skills. It mostly depends on the trail difficulty, my fitness/skill level, and the company I'm around. I can make even a slow paced ride on easy trails enjoyable, using a simplified bike, but I'd need a better bike to enable myself to actually ride with faster/skilled company on difficult trails. Still, I'd rather keep the injury risk low and utilize "higher tech in a simple package". 

Just last week, I decided I'd settle for a "balance". Seems the industry has also invested heavily into such an idea, considering all the choice available. I pulled the trigger on a SB5c frame, that I'm going to start building up for the new year. Still keeping my singlespeed around, but my New Year's resolution is to log at least 6k miles and 800k feet* on the SB5c by the end of 2018.

* = real climbs are 1.5 hrs away from me

(edit: thanks to AndrwSwitch, I ventured adding another zero to my climbing goal. So that would mean on a typical 10 mile ride, I'd need to try and fit in at least 1250 ft of climbing. For me, I'd have to plan routes to purposely find climbing. I made it over 2 years, since I'm trying to not burn out again)


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Lol. This year I'm about 1700 miles in but 186k miles. Even my lunch ride near work has vert. 

Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveVt said:


> Western consumerism drives the most evil dynamic the world has ever known. I don't need a new bike. I have my 16 year old SS HT.
> Never bought a new car in my life.


No wonder you seem so judgmental of others.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zooey (Oct 31, 2016)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Lol. This year I'm about 1700 miles in but 186k miles. Even my lunch ride near work has vert.
> 
> Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


Yes, my climbing situation needs to change. I wish I could say 800k, but 80k is closer to being realistic for me (for a single bike). To get that sort of mileage in the time I have, I need to ride from my front door, rather than take the car, which hurts climbing potential even more. :sad:

I wonder if having such a crazy goal will improve it any. 1250 ft over 10 miles is doable, if I actually aim for every hill and descent. I think I might have tried this for 2016, according to my stats. 

















The difference is, the mileage is spread out between bikes. I'd have to solely ride the SB5c to make this goal happen. Might have to resort to bike simplification to ensure it stays in rideable condition, avoiding unexpected downtime.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Mine's spread out over a couple bikes. I think I've been on my 140 mm bike the most this year - my new toy - but I also rode some road and did some trainer time and still ride my XC bike some. More, if I can reorganize my life a little and train and race more again.

Really not doing well on the bike simplification. 

Sent from my E5803 using Tapatalk


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Quentin said:


> Is that $7000 bike worth $0 and/or unridable after 1 year (30 outings)? Or could said buyer potentially use it more than 1 year?
> 
> Come on, that math is based on a silly premise.


The math is bad, but there is _something_ to it.

New bikes generally depreciate by 50% in their first year. Might get 3500 if you sell that bike used on CL. So you're still looking at $100 an outing if you go once a week, half the year.

Obviously that number goes down the more you ride it and/or the longer you keep it. Albeit I reckon most folks who (can afford to) spend $7k on a bike for 30 rides a year are gonna scratch the itch after a year or two and trade up for something bigger and better.


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

DaveVt said:


> Western consumerism drives the most evil dynamic the world has ever known. I don't need a new bike. I have my 16 year old SS HT.
> Never bought a new car in my life.


Totally off base. Western consumerism or capitalism has been a renaissance that shifted people gaining wealth from pleasing a consumer rather than birthright or domination. Our current situation isn't perfect but I doubt anyone who is on this board remembers true capitalism since we haven't seen it since around 1913.

Furthermore, when you see a "poser" with a nice bike: consider that the person might have given himself/herself a present after beating cancer or returning from war. Also consider that the consumer probably helped keep a local shop open and put food on someone's table.

Or maybe I am just full of sh** and need to narrow my world view and ignore history.

Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk


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## rockhopper97 (Jul 30, 2014)

I only have 2 bikes.... a 1991 raleigh tangent and a 97 specialized rockhopper..... picked up both for free and rebuilt them on the cheap.... last time I bought a new bike was in 96... a raleigh M-80 and put a rock shox Q21R on it....it was stolen about a year after I got it.... have had used since then.... the rockhopper in a SS commuter bike and the tangent is for riding in the dirt.... I also have never had a new car.... most have been over 10 years old.... my current ride in a 1994 dodge grand caravan ramp van that was my fathers wheelchair van till he passed in 2015.... my mom gave it to me after I totaled my beater ford ranger hitting an embankment trying to avoid running over a big dog.... still hit the dog unfortunately .... the van is a good rig for hauling bikes


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## Juan Dinger (Dec 28, 2016)

Interesting read. Made me want to sign up to the forum. 

I would just like to point out that there is a whole sport that revolves around single speed bikes with rigid forks. It's called BMX !!


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

DaveVt said:


> Western consumerism drives the most evil dynamic the world has ever known. I don't need a new bike. I have my 16 year old SS HT.
> Never bought a new car in my life.


This is what the conservative movement is about. Highly educated people(like Obama)want us to use less natural resources, they want this country to be poor like Haiti. They want us to turn our lawns into gardens and ride our bikes to work. Why do you think they are spending millions on 'Heritage'[apparently a very bad word]trails? Because they like you and want you to be healthy?


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

I simplified my life by selling two cars as I was tired of always putting gas in a different vehicle, paying multiple excise taxes and insurance. 

My bike? NFW will I simplify. I want FS, 2x10, clutch on the derailleur, etc because I love hauling a**
faster with more control. Try that on the single speed rigid. 

Boost? Oh yes, please on my next bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

cjsb said:


> No wonder you seem so judgmental of others.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People are victims. I feel bad for them, but will judge them is they embrace ignorance.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DaveVt said:


> People are victims. I feel bad for them, but will judge them is they embrace ignorance.


So those of us that disagree with you are ignorant? I think the same of people that judge others.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

ntm1973 said:


> Totally off base. Western consumerism or capitalism has been a renaissance that shifted people gaining wealth from pleasing a consumer rather than birthright or domination. Our current situation isn't perfect but I doubt anyone who is on this board remembers true capitalism since we haven't seen it since around 1913.
> 
> Furthermore, when you see a "poser" with a nice bike: consider that the person might have given himself/herself a present after beating cancer or returning from war. Also consider that the consumer probably helped keep a local shop open and put food on someone's table.
> 
> ...


We have taken over most of the world, murdered millions upon millions of people perpetuate war, so that multinational corps can raid those war-torn **** holes of their resources, extracted by the indigenous slaves so they can be transformed into products by more enslaved people to be sold to the western world to replace items that are very likely still completely viable, but are perceived as obsolete thanks to marketing. A very small minority of the population of the planet consumes the vast majority of the natural resources. It destroys culture, the environment, and drives our policy abroad. How we vote is meaningless. How we spend is everything. MTBing has become the realm of the elitist poser. Deny that and you very likely are one.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

jcd46 said:


> So those of us that disagree with you are ignorant? I think the same of people that judge others.


Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean it's correct. Another aspect of the American Condition. If you're claiming to not pass judgement on people for their actions, then you're so full of it your eyes are brown.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

ntm1973 said:


> Furthermore, when you see a "poser" with a nice bike: consider that the person might have given himself/herself a present after beating cancer or returning from war. Also consider that the consumer probably helped keep a local shop open and put food on someone's table.
> 
> Or maybe I am just full of sh** and need to narrow my world view and ignore history.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk


This is what I'm talking about, no one really knows other people's situation so calling them names because they have a nice ride is not necessary. Some of us can't ride as often due to life, not lack of desire.

How are my "commas" guys? ?


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Edited. Ride on.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

If I were "way"upper middle class, I would not do maintenance, as I would roll on a new bike every 6 months or so. No guilt. I would try all the latest and greatest, selling 1 year old units before I needed to re cable. I would like to try the following: Fat Tire 27.5 full squish, Carbon Singlespeed sub 20 pounder, Titanium Singlespeed, $10,000 dollar super bikes in various categories (Full susp' , 1 x 11 , 2x11 , Titanium full squish, Pivot Firebird with XTR Electronic shift, and lots of Mt Bike 3 day trips in a plane, pay shop to assemble bike at each stop). I think wealthy people that don't do this are nuts! I really need to stop typing, and re lube 4 Chris King hubs, way over due. Shoot.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

hoolie said:


> If I were "way"upper middle class, I would not do maintenance, as I would roll on a new bike every 6 months or so. No guilt. I would try all the latest and greatest, selling 1 year old units before I needed to re cable. I would like to try the following: Fat Tire 27.5 full squish, Carbon Singlespeed sub 20 pounder, Titanium Singlespeed, $10,000 dollar super bikes in various categories (Full susp' , 1 x 11 , 2x11 , Titanium full squish, Pivot Firebird with XTR Electronic shift, and lots of Mt Bike 3 day trips in a plane, pay shop to assemble bike at each stop). I think wealthy people that don't do this are nuts! I really need to stop typing, and re lube 4 Chris King hubs, way over due. Shoot.


Too much coffee this morning, huh?


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Yes! Waiting to ride until it warms up a bit.


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

Wow...this thread has gone nuts!



hoolie said:


> If I were "way"upper middle class, I would not do maintenance, as I would roll on a new bike every 6 months or so. No guilt. I would try all the latest and greatest, selling 1 year old units before I needed to re cable. I would like to try the following: Fat Tire 27.5 full squish, Carbon Singlespeed sub 20 pounder, Titanium Singlespeed, $10,000 dollar super bikes in various categories (Full susp' , 1 x 11 , 2x11 , Titanium full squish, Pivot Firebird with XTR Electronic shift, and lots of Mt Bike 3 day trips in a plane, pay shop to assemble bike at each stop). I think wealthy people that don't do this are nuts! I really need to stop typing, and re lube 4 Chris King hubs, way over due. Shoot.


See this is part of the reason I created this thread. When I was in college and totally broke, I thought this way almost to a tee. Now I've got a solid income (no humblebrag, I get paid pretty well) and I'm tired of the complexity.

Maybe I need to quit my job and live like a college student again, maybe it'll reignite my desire for fancy things.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I have more bikes than I ride. I typically pull my trusty, simple, HT SS off the wall and enjoy the quiet.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

hoolie said:


> If I were "way"upper middle class, I would not do maintenance, as I would roll on a new bike every 6 months or so. No guilt. I would try all the latest and greatest, selling 1 year old units before I needed to re cable. I would like to try the following: Fat Tire 27.5 full squish, Carbon Singlespeed sub 20 pounder, Titanium Singlespeed, $10,000 dollar super bikes in various categories (Full susp' , 1 x 11 , 2x11 , Titanium full squish, Pivot Firebird with XTR Electronic shift, and lots of Mt Bike 3 day trips in a plane, pay shop to assemble bike at each stop). I think wealthy people that don't do this are nuts! I really need to stop typing, and re lube 4 Chris King hubs, way over due. Shoot.


hmm, just how much do you think "way" upper middle class people make? Not enough to do what you stated. And that type of behavior is not what self made people exhibit, unless they really strike oil. That sounds more like the pro sports players who end up bankrupt a few years after they stop playing.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveVt said:


> People are victims. I feel bad for them, but will judge them is they embrace ignorance.


Fair enough, everyone has to discern and judge in some fashion.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

hoolie said:


> If I were "way"upper middle class, I would not do maintenance, as I would roll on a new bike every 6 months or so. No guilt. I would try all the latest and greatest, selling 1 year old units before I needed to re cable. I would like to try the following: Fat Tire 27.5 full squish, Carbon Singlespeed sub 20 pounder, Titanium Singlespeed, $10,000 dollar super bikes in various categories (Full susp' , 1 x 11 , 2x11 , Titanium full squish, Pivot Firebird with XTR Electronic shift, and lots of Mt Bike 3 day trips in a plane, pay shop to assemble bike at each stop). I think wealthy people that don't do this are nuts! I really need to stop typing, and re lube 4 Chris King hubs, way over due. Shoot.


How about a gold plated bike with crisp thousand dollar bills ticking between the spokes?

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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveVt said:


> We have taken over most of the world, murdered millions upon millions of people perpetuate war, so that multinational corps can raid those war-torn **** holes of their resources, extracted by the indigenous slaves so they can be transformed into products by more enslaved people to be sold to the western world to replace items that are very likely still completely viable, but are perceived as obsolete thanks to marketing. A very small minority of the population of the planet consumes the vast majority of the natural resources. It destroys culture, the environment, and drives our policy abroad. How we vote is meaningless. How we spend is everything. MTBing has become the realm of the elitist poser. Deny that and you very likely are one.


So wrong on so many levels, but that is your opinion.

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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

DaveVt said:


> We have taken over most of the world, murdered millions upon millions of people perpetuate war, so that multinational corps can raid those war-torn **** holes of their resources, extracted by the indigenous slaves so they can be transformed into products by more enslaved people to be sold to the western world to replace items that are very likely still completely viable, but are perceived as obsolete thanks to marketing. A very small minority of the population of the planet consumes the vast majority of the natural resources. It destroys culture, the environment, and drives our policy abroad. How we vote is meaningless. How we spend is everything. MTBing has become the realm of the elitist poser. Deny that and you very likely are one.





cjsb said:


> So wrong on so many levels, but that is your opinion.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Unfortunately, I believe this is the product of the great American educational system.


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## tony_mm (Dec 1, 2016)

msrothwe said:


> Wow...this thread has gone nuts!
> 
> See this is part of the reason I created this thread. When I was in college and totally broke, I thought this way almost to a tee. Now I've got a solid income (no humblebrag, I get paid pretty well) and I'm tired of the complexity.
> 
> Maybe I need to quit my job and live like a college student again, maybe it'll reignite my desire for fancy things.


I fully understand you. I experienced the same. And after a few years if a more "humble life" I now enjoy as much as before. And less is better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2016)

DaveVt said:


> We have taken over most of the world, murdered millions upon millions of people perpetuate war, so that multinational corps can raid those war-torn **** holes of their resources, extracted by the indigenous slaves so they can be transformed into products by more enslaved people to be sold to the western world to replace items that are very likely still completely viable, but are perceived as obsolete thanks to marketing. A very small minority of the population of the planet consumes the vast majority of the natural resources. It destroys culture, the environment, and drives our policy abroad. How we vote is meaningless. How we spend is everything. MTBing has become the realm of the elitist poser. Deny that and you very likely are one.


 I'm not sure if that is your swan song as you leave mountain biking an return to walking barefoot from your cave to the local mastodon hunting grounds or your rather wordy admission that your an elitist poser. I'm hoping for the former. I think you're forgetting all the war torn **** holes that were created before the industrial revolution, but what do I know. My phone still flips open and my current single bike contains no diamonds or other rare materials. The saddle is leather, but England won it's last two wars and I'd hardly describe the blokes at Brooks as slaves.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

I've had *Life* Simplification Syndrome for awhile, now. Maybe my version of midlife crisis, but unnecessary stuff began to feel like a burden just by being there. Been donating, selling, or just throwing away everything from furniture to books, CDs and DVDs, even pots and pans I never use, and would be a tiny house candidate except my outdoor gear and exercise equipment would require a separate building as big as the house. 
I guess it carries over into my bikes. Don't want more(1 mtb, 1 hybrid for pavement), and I've been trying to talk myself into putting some gears back on my SS-converted hardtail weekly for about a year, now. Still have a shifter and RD, so really just need a new cassette and chain, but keep making up excuses to stay with SS in spite of gears making perfect sense for where/how I ride. It's kind of silly, and I think I may actually do it soon('course I've thought that all along!), but it's also hard to go back once you've "gone simple".


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

Mountain biking since the late 80's. Been on every type of bike and have a pretty big stable even now.

I discovered that I only really need three though. A DJ for my and my friends' pumptracks, a DH I bought used for the occasional trip to Killington, etc. And a couple fatbikes.

While it gets ridicule from some, I'm not afeaid to admit I'm happy on a HT fatbike with suspension fork and 100mm rims/4.8" tires for everything else. It really covers a ride range of trail and weather conditions where I live.

Even better, I lose the rear suspension and annoying pivot points creak 'n' squeak symphony that got old fast on the AM/Enduro/freestyle stuff I've owned. The fatbike offers just enough undampened rear suspension that I'm good.


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

DaveVt said:


> We have taken over most of the world, murdered millions upon millions of people perpetuate war, so that multinational corps can raid those war-torn **** holes of their resources, extracted by the indigenous slaves so they can be transformed into products by more enslaved people to be sold to the western world to replace items that are very likely still completely viable, but are perceived as obsolete thanks to marketing. A very small minority of the population of the planet consumes the vast majority of the natural resources. It destroys culture, the environment, and drives our policy abroad. How we vote is meaningless. How we spend is everything. MTBing has become the realm of the elitist poser. Deny that and you very likely are one.


Wow, I am surprised that I didn't see the word bourgeoisie in your post? If what you posted is your understanding of western history then I don't think there is any way to educate you on all of the reason the "west" has gone to war. That is not say that our foreign policy has always been perfect and that corporatism hasn't influenced foreign policy in isolated instances but you are painting with a very broad brush. And corporatism is different than consumerism. In other words, there are things to be legitimately upset or concerned about but some schmoe buying a nice bike or getting his daughter UGGS are not one of them (well, maybe UGGS, I hate those things.)

The bigger issue and the only reason I respond to post like this deals with a very negative "bottom up" elitism that is damaging to the individual and the culture as a whole. Your post reek of jealous and discontent that typically grows into a redistributionist philosophy which ironically enough, real wars have been fought over.

Consider that the people who our riding really nice bikes are likely your neighbors, probably worked their butts off to get where they are and most likely share your love of cycling. In my experience, the people riding nice bikes do not look down at others with less expensive gear and if anything, are impressed that someone can make the lesser gear work so well. I have never even heard a disparaging remark about someone else's equipment from someone with nice gear yet I have heard others share in your belief that people who can't ride as well as them are somehow not worthy of what they have.

DaveVT, what difference does it make if someone else has more if you are content with what you have? If you want more, there are opportunities for that but no one has a gun to your head forcing you to buy more. I could care less what you think about a specific person or even topic but I do think the weird bottom up elitism that seems to be becoming more prevalent is damaging to anyone and any culture that comes in contact with it.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

We are dangerously approaching Godwin's Law....


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Juan Dinger said:


> Interesting read. Made me want to sign up to the forum.
> 
> I would just like to point out that there is a whole sport that revolves around single speed bikes with rigid forks. It's called BMX !!


Word!!! Been living in that world since 1976!! Have a fully rigid MTB now because of it!


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

;0) ......single-speed 29er......


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Some completely unreliable data on simplification vs speed from earlier this year...

"So, I rode 7 of my bikes over the same 1 mile singletrack loop today. I tried to maintain a similar level of effort for each lap. Here are the times..."

Motobecane Lurch (fatbike) - 7:35
Groundup (SS cyclocross) - 7:43
Surly Crosscheck (cyclocross) - 8:06
Redline Monocog (rigid SS 29er) - 7:12
Flyxii (carbon hardtail 29er) - 7:27
Santa Cruz Heckler (long travel FS 650b) - 7:12
Titus Rockstar (FS 29er) - 7:16

Conclusion? A simple rigid SS 29er didn't hold me back for one mile of rocky, twisty, singletrack... But, I wouldn't want to ride that bike in the snow, for an endurance race, on an extended downhill, or on a road century. Horses for courses. On the other hand, simple is nice. Grab and go with very little maintenance. Out of all those results, the carbon hardtail surprised me the most. I thought it was most suited to the task, but the time was a bit slower, although maybe it is all within the expected deviation.

Given enough experience with the bike, anything can work, but it might not be fun. The crosscheck was not fun on that lap, but it is my most versatile bike.


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## BobbyLight350z (Feb 1, 2016)

Quentin said:


> I rode a Rockhopper through college. When I finished my co-op with a major car manufacturer that resulted in an engineering job offer and a $7500 moving bonus, I packed all my things into a $250 U-haul rental and promptly purchased a Cannondale Scalpel. I rode that bike for 6 years and loved the heck out of it. The guy I sold it to still has it. I've definitely considered buying it back.
> 
> Here it is the day I picked it up. I hadn't even pulled the black plate off the wheel yet. Haha
> 
> ...


OT question here, do you still have that 2.5 RS and are you willing to sell it? Totally serious, hard to find them not rusted out and I've been looking for a while.

back on topic, I don't think I will ever be ever be able to have a simplification syndrome as I am a stress shopper. (think stress eating but with fun purchases instead).

I can totally see that depending on where you live a 1-3 bike quiver could easily cover everything. But I'll probably just continue to throw money that should go into an IRA into toys. Its more fun that way!


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

BobbyLight350z said:


> OT question here, do you still have that 2.5 RS and are you willing to sell it? Totally serious, hard to find them not rusted out and I've been looking for a while.
> 
> back on topic, I don't think I will ever be ever be able to have a simplification syndrome as I am a stress shopper. (think stress eating but with fun purchases instead).
> 
> I can totally see that depending on where you live a 1-3 bike quiver could easily cover everything. But I'll probably just continue to throw money that should go into an IRA into toys. Its more fun that way!


Nope, I gave it to my younger brother when I got my first real job. By the time he got rid of it, the rear fenders were rusted out and nearly every panel was wrecked. I wish I still had it, though. The GTI and FR-S that I've had since it have been far superior cars, but the 2.5RS was charming.



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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

Speaking of simple, this is a thing apparently! So Majestic! 







https://shop.bicymple.com/


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

*Anyone ever get "bike simplification syndrome"?*



MCHB said:


> Speaking of simple, this is a thing apparently! So Majestic!
> View attachment 1113511
> 
> https://shop.bicymple.com/


Ha, that looks kinda neat. I wonder how it is to ride. The short chainstay crowd should love it!



Quentin said:


> Nope, I gave it to my younger brother when I got my first real job. By the time he got rid of it, the rear fenders were rusted out and nearly every panel was wrecked. I wish I still had it, though. The GTI and FR-S that I've had since it have been far superior cars, but the 2.5RS was charming.


Ah, I do like the 2.5RS too. I had an opportunity to buy a 4-door earlier this year from a friend for $3000, I passed due to a leaky headgasket and the fact that it had just under 200k miles. The body was rust free though and the interior was in decent shape too. I also just plain wasn't in the market, I had just purchased a car.

Part of the reason I really like the 2.5RS is that it's such an honest car--quick steering, torquey N/A motor, struts and fun--no fancy bells or whistles.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

MCHB said:


> Speaking of simple, this is a thing apparently! So Majestic!
> View attachment 1113511
> 
> https://shop.bicymple.com/


that is right after "unicycle meiosis"...or is it mitosis. I can never remember the difference


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## Dougr (Jun 15, 2006)

Got 3 bikes, 4 if you count the rigid frame Diamond Back Ascent from 1987 that I converted to a single speed a few years ago (great around town, rail trail and mellow single track).
2nd Bike: Specialized Stumpy 26" hardtail from 2002
3rd Bike: 2011 Specialized TriCross Sport with 2 wheel sets, 1 with cross tires and 1 with road tires. Bike does great triple duty as tourer, cross and road rider.
4th Bike: 2016 Specialized Camber 27.5 full squish.
I think I've got my bases covered for a while.


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## Honda Guy (Mar 29, 2011)

Personally I can't do it without more than one gear. Spinning out on fire roads bugs me to no end. Once you set up a 1x system there's not too much maintenance to really do and what is is relatively simple.

Pivots are a pain in the ass for sure. As for forks, I like having a rigid fork and a suspension fork so when mine is out for service I just swap the rigid and ride that for a while.

I do want to get it down to one performance bike and one commuter, so I am thinking of getting a cross bike and doing away with the mountain bike and road bike and commuter.


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## mk.ultra (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm good with a hardtail+, road bike, and a grocery getter that I wouldn't care whatsoever about losing. Probably gonna sell my cross bike because it feels like it serves no clear purpose.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

I went thru BSS awhile back. I ended up making my 27yo Marin into a reliable ride that will do everything I wish to do on a bike.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I went all-in on BSS, one step at a time.
I converted my long travel, slack FS bike to 1x10. Then I got a hard tail and sold my FS. Took the gears off the hard tail. Took the suspension fork off the thing and went plus/rigid/SS. .
The only maintenance I've done recently is wipe off the chain and throw on some Rock'n'roll Gold. 
My bike is always ready to go and my rides are just me and the pedals. 

That said: after 2 years of this progression I've found my self back haunting some old trails that were 'AWESOME' on my 150mm,67* HTA bike that are rather dangerous and hard on a rigid SS. 
I find my self irritated when I'm struggling to keep up with geared guys on long flat straight sections, and on fast chunky downhills where my 120-140mm FS friends are just flying and I'm 100% focused on line choice and not getting my teeth rattled out.
But then I haven't bent a chain, busted a shifter cable or mangled a derailleur, so there's that.
I also never lube pivots or rebuild forks, regardless of how dusty or muddy it is.
It goes both ways. Simple is fun, but it has to be 'only for fun'.
The key to enjoying BSS is to really commit that a simple bike is fun, and you won't be likely to do any 'shredding' or KOM'ing. I just has to be fun for the sake of fun.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Just today i was thinking about turning my 1994 Trek into a SS. It would be a SS fully rigid. Right now it is my commuter, and still pretty much original frame/wheels/cranks/bars...I have replaced stuff as it broke. I thought this might be better used as a "trainer" bike. I don't want to turn my Krampus into SS b/c of the impending bike-packing plans with it

we wil see...


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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

Well dang guys, its wild that my thread just jumped back to the top, I washed up and listed my Tallboy Carbon for sale yesterday. With any luck I'll soon be a couple grand richer and one bike poorer! I'm not going to spam with a link or anything, but if you're interested in details on the bike, holler at me w/PM.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

*Anyone ever get "bike simplification syndrome"?*

Having ridden my hard tail all winter and busting out the FS bike on Saturday, I have no desire to simplify. The FS bike is so much more fun. The hard tail is great when I'm slogging though tacky mud and muck, but when I'm out there pushing my body and bike to the limit, the FS is the more enjoyable bike. Having the hardtail take the brunt of the abuse simplifies my life with the FS bike because I don't expose the FS pivots and drivetrain to the worst conditions where I can't really go that fast anyway. Simplify by addition.

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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> I went all-in on BSS, one step at a time.
> I converted my long travel, slack FS bike to 1x10. Then I got a hard tail and sold my FS. Took the gears off the hard tail. Took the suspension fork off the thing and went plus/rigid/SS. .
> The only maintenance I've done recently is wipe off the chain and throw on some Rock'n'roll Gold.
> My bike is always ready to go and my rides are just me and the pedals...I also never lube pivots or rebuild forks, regardless of how dusty or muddy it is.


You've done well so far. Your next step is to build up a belt drive with an internally geared rear hub. No more lubing the chain, no derailleurs to smash, but you'll get some gears back. I've been riding such a setup for about 2000 miles now, and love it. Recently installed a new flex-stem to take the edge off the rigid fork. Pretty pleased with that too. The next step in evolution will be airless tires that are worth a damn, and a gear box.


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

My idea of simplification is complicated.

I like single speeds, and now I have two of them. Both are rigid. Both have dingle drives, to chain rings and two cogs for two different ratios.

Now my mind wants front suspension fork dingle. No problem,. I can just convert my old XCbike, except it is my camping bike, because it will pull a BOB, and a SS won't. I can carry the wife's gear in it and she needs me to pull it. 

Otherwise I would bike pack my Salsa Mukluk which hasn't been ridden for over a year now. 

Because I sold my old FS bike in 2015 to get rid of the old geometry, worn out shocks, etc obsolete, I bought a FS 27+ bike.

I commute on a Ti cross bike and have 2 wheelsets for it.

The FS plus bike has three wheelsets now! Different tires, sizes.

Love how rigid SS makes the FS ride experience like a performance enhancement.

Wife uses 3 bikes, belt drive commuter, rigid SS, carbon FS.

She's got an old SWorks FSR we should try and sell. I bought it for her as a back up bike, but she would rather not ride than ride it.

We swore off road riding. We have a road tandem we needing​ to sell. Many miles. 

Have a broken FS tandem frame hanging on the garage wall.

eBay is an amazing source of curiosities.

I like having interesting equipment with personality. The gear is fascinating.

The ride is paramount.

Bikes stashed in different places sometimes.

Always have a single speed ready. Always gear it realistically. Ride the SS most of the time.

Savor the FS bike.

Go on long all day rides.

Enjoy it while we can!

I like it when everyone​ has a good ride.

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## msrothwe (Aug 1, 2007)

To update this thread:

I sold my full squish bike, so I'm on my way to simplicity. I've now got a hardtail, cross bike and road bike. 

I'm thinking about selling the road bike and buying another set of wheels for the CX bike for road riding. I'm not quite there yet though, since I really enjoy riding a 16 pound bike on the road. My cross bike is a pig, it actually weighs more than my hardtail. Weight doesn't really matter since I'm not racing anymore but it does feel nice to have a snappy bike. 

There's really no rush, I'll probably just marinate on it for a while.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

msrothwe said:


> To update this thread:
> 
> I sold my full squish bike, so I'm on my way to simplicity. I've now got a hardtail, cross bike and road bike.
> 
> ...


I tried road riding a Surly Crosscheck for a while. Honestly, it sucked. The steel frame was way too flexy where I had no confidence going into corners. I recommend putting the road wheels on the cross bike and test out the cross bike on the road before committing. I have a Cannondale Slate that I do a bit of everything on and it is passable on the road, but those days where I know I'm only doing pavement, give me my pure road bike.

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## MarkMass (Sep 10, 2006)

I want to throw out my GF's old HT so we have room for a modern bike.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

I dropped down to a Hardtail, simple, semi, but good.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

This is the last bike I've ordered and built up. It's my travel bike for remote riding. I figure I can find brake cables, a chain and a 26" tube just about anywhere, if I use the parts already in my pack. 

This bike has been ridden all over Iceland and not a single shop was equipped to handle anything hydraulic (suspension/brakes)

A hardtail SS also keeps me from riding over my head when I'm alone and well out of cell service.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

I have been pondering this lately as well. 

I very rarely get rid of any of my bicycles. I have a 26" SS, a 26" HT, a Fatboy, a road bike, and my dualie. My dualie was out of commission for some maintenance the last week and I got reacquainted with my HT. I hadn't ridden the HT in 2 yrs. Now that I am back on my dualie, I am not motivated to ride the HT. All the same, I am not motivated to get rid of it either:
- It makes a great back up bike and nice to have on hand to loan out to friends-in-need. 
- Its way lighter (8lbs lighter) than my dualie
- and I'll probably never buy another hardtail.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

BSS probably by default. It's a matter of economics with me. 

When I pursue most hobbies, interests or activities, I tend to find and rate features, performance / value that I impose as a boundary. I often find a lot of mid-pack items have some trickle down benefits or designs yet the high end has dearly priced stuff for the sake of costly and sometimes very minor upgrades or benefits. 

Were I to excel in skiing or biking or ? to any degree of grace and ability, I might then pursue the next level of goodies or chromoly candy.
To that end, I have / had a collection of skis dating back to the mid 1970's and presently a steel 26" '91 Hardrock rigid 3x7 , a 2001 alum 26" Kona h/t 3x8 and a '17 Marin 27.5+ PM1 steel h/t x 11. 

The fortunate byproduct of BSS is me (likely) not being a handy bike wrench, not wanting to be working on bikes or spending any time or extra money servicing them.
I mandate a strict schedule of maintenance every 3 to 7 years and the 91 has been in a "shop" for professional attention at least 2 or 3 times in 26 years.... the Kona twice in 16 years .... 

I truly believe any of the three serve me well for the trails I like to ride and the style of riding I do. In that respect, I'm a minimalist in the B.S. sense of the term but more accurately a BSS supporter.


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## Quentin (Mar 30, 2008)

BSS complete. Rigid: check. SS: check. Coaster brake: check.











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## tommik (Jul 13, 2016)

I do like the simplicity of a cyclocross bike. There's no suspension to take care of, no dropper post or anything like that. It's fun to ride on road and easy trails and the maintenance is really simple. Still a full suspension mountain bike on a technical single track brings the widest smile on my face.

I have been thinking about getting a rigid mountain bike for commuting, but I try to keep my bike count in 2.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Quentin said:


> BSS complete. Rigid: check. SS: check. Coaster brake: check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


smile, check....life ahead of awesome biking, check!!


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

_CJ said:


> Frankly, I don't know that you can call yourself a man if you don't change your own oil...


I call it being a smart man! I changed my oil for years. What a freakin mess every time. Between oil all over the hands and the PITA oil filter why bother saving 20 bucks or so? Then the environmental BS of oil all over and what to do with the oil waste and oil filter in a responsible manner? If you start adding up your time and hassle why bother changing your own oil??
Now I still got to do it with our tractor and mower but I swore off changing car oil again.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Simplification gets a lot more complicated when you get other family members involved!
For me:
Hardtail 29 plus bike
Rigid 29er bike converted to road and light gravel duty
Hardtail 29er bike

Wife
Hardtail plus bike
Softride mt bike converted to road use

Us
Tandem

Daughter
Road bike

That is a lot of bikes to keep going and most of them are tubeless so that adds another layer to it. 

Friend has a garage full of amazing bikes that he has no intentions of selling. I ride much more than him but he has no family.

Life is only as simple as you care to make it. Hoarding makes just about every garage in America unsuitable for it's intended purpose!


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

My expensive bike in my stable is a Trek XCaliber. I tried out a $2500 Camber Comp and was really nervous and upset about it. My wife and I decided that this would be a better investment.









I think that the high school booster club would agree with this decision.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richwolf said:


> I call it being a smart man! I changed my oil for years. What a freakin mess every time. Between oil all over the hands and the PITA oil filter why bother saving 20 bucks or so? Then the environmental BS of oil all over and what to do with the oil waste and oil filter in a responsible manner? If you start adding up your time and hassle why bother changing your own oil??
> Now I still got to do it with our tractor and mower but I swore off changing car oil again.


Because I got tired of oil change places doing cute things like leaving off the crush washer, causing a leak, and them trying to sell me repairs that were not needed. It probably costs me more but I bet I use better quality oil and filters and I don't have to sit around and wait for them to do it or arrange a ride. And I collect the oil and take it to the auto parts store for recycling maybe once a year, not difficult.

I had a place I liked and it was close to my old house so I would take a bike and ride home and later ride back to pick up my car. But then they changed management and went to a "sell them repairs whether they are needed or not" business model. Tried a couple of places after we moved but got fed up and started back changing it myself.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

chazpat said:


> Because I got tired of oil change places doing cute things like leaving off the crush washer, causing a leak, and them trying to sell me repairs that were not needed. It probably costs me more but I bet I use better quality oil and filters and I don't have to sit around and wait for them to do it or arrange a ride. And I collect the oil and take it to the auto parts store for recycling maybe once a year, not difficult.
> 
> I had a place I liked and it was close to my old house so I would take a bike and ride home and later ride back to pick up my car. But then they changed management and went to a "sell them repairs whether they are needed or not" business model. Tried a couple of places after we moved but got fed up and started back changing it myself.


Ya if you can't find a reputable place then you are better off doing it yourself. I am in and out in generally 10 to 15 minutes. As far as upselling me I am pretty good at saying no if it ain't needed. 
The only thing I want to crawl under any more is my sheets!


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## LiquidSpin (Mar 26, 2012)

msrothwe said:


> I love mountain biking, but I despise spending endless amounts of money on more gear. I've got a full suspension and a hardtail, (and a road bike and cross bike). Both mountain bikes are great for their intended purposes, but with bikes costing so much these days, the opportunity cost of keeping a $10,000 stable of bicycles bugs me. I also look at the FS, with all of its pivots mocking me, reminding that they'll need to be serviced at some point, and its either going to require either my increasingly rare free time, or my hard-earned cash to get it done.
> 
> At times, I just want to sell everything and go for a rigid singlespeed, but I've been there before and it sucks. That's why I have lots of bikes. Or is it? Have I been conned by the clever marketeers of expensive complex bicycle things? Or are the clever marketeers of rigid singlespeeds winning?
> 
> I hate mountain bikes. (but love mountain biking)


I'm focusing on this in particular: "my increasingly rare free time" If you don't have time to maintain all your bikes how on earth do you have time to even ride to wear out the bikes components? It's kinda like being a home owner...you gotta take the time to cut the grass.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm all for simplification, but not to the point where it compromises my riding fun. I have one FS bike that does everything from shuttles to multi-day epics, and once a year [or so] I take a week off riding and throw some money at it to get suspension etc serviced. Most of the time it gets nothing more than a quick rinse and chain lube between rides, and sometimes I remember to check the tyre pressure or shock pressure.

Doesn't seem particularly complicated to me...


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Much of my early career was in sales or marketing and spanned 20 years or so into the late 1990's. 
In the early years, I was working retail in the higher end stereo and video market and learning as I went there was always something a bit nicer, fancier or more expensive. 
It took a number of years for me to find the right balance in things like that because the temptation and steep discounts for industry insiders meant most of us were constantly searching to upgrade and sell off last years stuff. At some point, I discovered the truly high-end sometimes meant finicky, troublesome, high maintenance nonsense that all but stripped the fun out it as we chased the next "big breakthrough". My last sound system in those days had me back to a very simple and straightforward set up that worked it's magic in the more basic sense not too unlike my set up I had in high school. 
I was back to enjoying the entertainment it provided more and spending less time and worry about how to pay for it, how to redesign the room around it or researching what to purchase next. 

For me it worked as a good template and from then on, many of my purchase decisions and product searches while shopping refrigerators, lawnmowers, cars or even bikes took on a longer view and taught me to find the sweet spot for what I/we wanted / needed and fit the task.

This time around, I stuck to that blueprint in my latest bike purchase and this topic here just serves a reminder that I didn't get hung up on things I didn't need or want just because they are out there and within reach on bikes at very moderate prices.

It's not as difficult as I once thought when I realize even though I like and appreciate nice and expensive things, it doesn't mean I have to have a $4000 bike when I'm going to be riding it like a $1000 bike. I suppose if I ride my new bike like my $600 bike, it's a different color and has disc brakes so I got that going for me.


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## tony_mm (Dec 1, 2016)

Have 2 road bikes (one new and one 25 y.o. for the home trainer and the winter training) and 2 MTB (hardtail and FS).

But because of the weather here in the west coast of Canada (quite rainy..) and the marketing I will buy a disc brake road bike for next winter. And a frame for the home trainer. So 1,5 bikes more soon. Actually happy about the new bike but not that much to have one more


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## Cap'n (Aug 11, 2016)

Since I got my fat bike, I haven't ridden anything else. It's no the fastest thing, but it is the most fun, and beats walking in any weather.

I'm holding on to my Cyclops road bike for sentimental reasons, but maybe it's time to let go.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

chazpat said:


> Because I got tired of oil change places doing cute things like leaving off the crush washer, causing a leak, and them trying to sell me repairs that were not needed.


I had a friend who dropped off his bike to get the front fork serviced and suddenly ended up buying a new $700 fork. He says the guy at the shop said there were hunks of metal missing from some part of the fork, so it needed replacing. Supposedly a reputable shop.

I can't help but wonder why he was never shown pics of the damage, and why the part in the shock that had the damage couldn't just be replaced instead of shelling out that much for a new fork. Maybe it was all legit... but then, maybe not.

Right now my shocks work fine. I've never serviced them in almost 10 years of riding. (about 40-50 riding hours per year). I'm kind of scared to have someone open them up.


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