# Poor roadies… well actually, maybe it serves them right.



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Yesterday, around 2pm there was a freak snow storm with blizzard like conditions up here in North Lake Tahoe. Earlier that morning had been beautiful, sunny with temps nearing the 50's. My wife, kid and I had just left the house on our way to Ace and when we got to the stop sign to turn onto the highway (just a 2 lane road in and out of the basin) we saw a roadie stopped on his way down the very steep 2 mile decline to the lake. He was wearing spandex shorts and a short sleeve bike jersey. No backpack or pack on his bike. 

As we stopped I heard him ask if he could get a ride, but our small SUV had no room for his bike with the kid in the car seat and his ridiculous stroller taking up the way back. I just shrugged and mouthed the words "sorry, no room" and we went on our way. 

On the way to Ace I started feeing bad that I didn't do more to help him, being a fellow bicycler and all. I thought, I live so close to where we ran into him, i could of dropped the kid and wife off back at the house and then would have had room to help him out. 

However, a little further down the road I saw several more roadies in the same situation, some in groups, some solo. None of them had backpacks and most were in spandex shorts, with short sleeve shirts or light long sleeve wind-breakers. Then i saw two mtbers right off a trail head putting jackets and pants on that they got out of their backpacks. I also saw a few other mtbers riding with warm clothes on and they all had backpacks and bike packs, which i assume is where they got the warm clothes from.

After that, I then thought to myself, stupid roadies, serves them right. Ya, the weather was supposed to be sunny and great all day, but sh*t, I went on a short 8 mile ride to the summit and back that morning expecting great weather (which I got, since i made it home before the freak storm) and I still brought my backpack filed with no brainer items like warm windbreaker jacket and pants, 1st aid kit, food, extra water, bike tools and some cash. These roadies are probably riding 30 to 50+ miles and they bring just about nothing? 

Whats the deal with roadies not being prepared? Do they think **** just ain't going to happen to them?



Still a little curious what happened to the guy I saw at the top of the highway. I imagine those skinny rim brakes were all but useless in the wet snow and those thin tires had to have been worthless as well. Maybe someone else picked him up.

Edit: feel like **** now after getting some perspective from you all. Please read my below posts regarding my POS behavior. I did post this for perspective, which have some more of now, but since it was a pretty shitty thing I did (or didn't do) I understand if you feel the need to give me more perspective.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

A lot of those "poor roadies" you're having such a good time looking down on are mountain bikers as well. I probably know some of them as I rode with the Reno Wheelmen when I lived in Susanville.

It's the middle of MAY. They got caught in a freak storm. 

Get over yourself.


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## EmbraceTheHate (Sep 9, 2012)

Had a big group mtb ride out in the sticks on a ranch down here in Texas. It was me and my buddy we took my truck (single cab ranger) we started to leave after our ride and 2 roadies came up to us, a couple. The man asked if we could take his chick back a few miles. These were my exact words to him "if she dont mind skiing on the way home she is more then welcome to ride with us" he didnt like that to much. But hey if your gonna drag your chick on a long bike ride that she may not be able to handle you deserve the sarcasm.....poor girl she looked so tired  

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## spec4life (May 14, 2008)

Centurion_ said:


> A lot of those "poor roadies" you're having such a good time looking down on are mountain bikers as well. I probably know some of them as I rode with the Reno Wheelmen when I lived in Susanville.
> 
> It's the middle of MAY. They got caught in a freak storm.
> 
> Get over yourself.


This. Your only showing your ignorance as a "bicycler". Most folks who have been riding a while just consider themselves cyclist and dabble in a bit of both whether they focus on road or mountain.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

OP: Choke yourself, you self righteous POS.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

Aren't you awesome? Didn't some poor guy recently freeze to death on a mountain bike ride? Not being prepared isn't something that's unique to one type of riding.

Karma...it will find you.


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## palerider (Jul 15, 2004)

Why do people always point out the differences like roadie vs mt biker, skier vs snowboarder ect. instead of embracing the commonalties? I just don't get it.


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## mikewadley (Aug 19, 2012)

A biker is a biker, I can't imagine not helping someone out that is caught in a bad situation no matter what type of bike they are riding.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

*Poor roadies&#8230; well actually, maybe it serves them right.*

Wow. Just wow.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> OP: Choke yourself, you self righteous POS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, like i said, I felt bad for not helping him out at first, but then I thought they where stupid for not brining any supplies. It is May, but it is also the Sierra Nevada mountains, being prepared is very important up here. I never understood why they don't ride with backpacks with emergency items up here.

I do appreciate the perspective and next time I will do more to help. My bad for not doing anything to help out the guy at the top of the pass. I am afraid Karma will most likely get me back for that one.

I do have friends that road bike, but not up here. They bring their mountain bikes when they come up, as well as their gear. However, if that was one of my friends not thinking about being prepared I would feel bad for him. So once again, thanks for the perspective, i feel like **** now, and will go out of my way to help when I see a fellow bicyclist in need regardless of the situation.

You all have every right for calling me out and i did post this to get perspective, which i got.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

*Poor roadies&#8230; well actually, maybe it serves them right.*



singletrackmack said:


> You all have every right for calling me out and i did post this to get perspective, which i got.


Good. Live and learn, man.

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## EmbraceTheHate (Sep 9, 2012)

So black smoking on roadies in my diesel is bad? Sorry 

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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Riding a road bike while carrying a backpack?

Talk about not an enjoyable ride at all. Carring pounds of crap on a mountain bike is nothing, carrying anything other than the basic water bottle and tubes/tools in an under saddle pack on a road bike is pretty much miserable.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

DethWshBkr said:


> Riding a road bike while carrying a backpack?
> 
> Talk about not an enjoyable ride at all. Carring pounds of crap on a mountain bike is nothing, carrying anything other than the basic water bottle and tubes/tools in an under saddle pack on a road bike is pretty much miserable.


It's all about perspective, and I have never been on a road bike before, so I wouldn't understand. Guess that makes sense though. Those bikes don't look very comfortable to begin with, so I can now imagine the extra gear would suck.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

OP does raise a valid point. 

Where I live cycling is very popular as you can ride close 12 months a year road and trail.
Mtbers around here ride with well stocked packs as, weather here can change very quickly.

Whereas I never see roadies with packs. Its always jerseys with what looks to be an iPhone, power gels,and a spare tube (maybe)
I ve seen roadies riding the sea to sky highway which is 50miles rolling hairpin coastal highway(locals call it the sea to die as it very dangerous piece of road) with nothing more than a jersey and bottle.
Ive seen them on the side of road soaking wet with no rain gear in the nasty rain storms that commonly roll through there.
IME most self respecting mtbers generally plan ahead somewhat.
Its better to have what you don't need than need what you don't have i feel is good motto.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

palerider said:


> Why do people always point out the differences like roadie vs mt biker, skier vs snowboarder ect. instead of embracing the commonalties? I just don't get it.


I truly feel bad after reading the replies. During the freak storm I felt bad at first when i didn't help, then tried to justify my inaction by separating roadies from MTBrs, but like you said, we really aint that different. I hope you all can at least understand my ignorance a little.

I promise to help all in need in the future, even if I don't understand their ways.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

at leas you feel bad now..... 
... you mentioned that this wasn't too far away from your house. 
If i was you in this situation, I'd put guy in the car, take his bike and hold it with my arm out the window if I had to and drive back to the house to dropp the bike off or take the bike rack. Then I'd drop him off at his house or a place of his choice if his house was way off the route i was expecting to take. 

Who cares if it's a roadie. He was a cyclist in need and more importantly a man facing bad weather in mountains with no proper clothing. 

Hope you learn not to be a d1ick next time...


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

rallymaniac said:


> at leas you feel bad now.....
> ... you mentioned that this wasn't too far away from your house.
> If i was you in this situation, I'd put guy in the car, take his bike and hold it with my arm out the window if I had to and drive back to the house to dropp the bike off or take the bike rack. Then I'd drop him off at his house or a place of his choice if his house was way off the route i was expecting to take.
> 
> ...


Yes, good points and options for when I think I can't help and I am learning not to be a d1ick to roadies.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

rallymaniac said:


> He was a cyclist in need and more importantly a man facing bad weather in mountains with no proper clothing.
> 
> Hope you learn not to be a d1ick next time...


My point exactly riding in the mountains is dangerous and no matter if you a roadie or mtber it is your responsibility to take care of your safety not someone else's job.


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## Br80 (Sep 10, 2013)

I have always been a bit of an elitist when it comes to mtn vs road. However, I do ride road from time to time and find some enjoyment. In this case, I agree with an earlier comment that mentioned just being a cyclist, regardless of discipline. I would go a bit farther and just lump us all in the "fellow human" category. 

I think that a mountain biker naturally needs to be more prepared, as they are more likely to be further from civilization in the case of an emergency. But anyone can make mistakes. I think maybe both you and those roadies may have learned their lesson

Thanks for the post. 

Br80


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## parkmeister (Feb 2, 2004)

Just curious, if the original post upsets you, what exactly it is that bothers you?

1. The lack of assistance to the rider in need?
2. The 'serves him right attitude' of the author? 
3. The smug generalizations about road cyclists vs. mtn bikers?

... Maybe it's some combination of the above, or something else I've not touched on?

Because if I were in the same situation as the original poster (based on what I've read in this thread), I also would have left that guy on the side of the road. And these are my reasons why:

Based solely on what I've read in this post, I do not believe the cyclist was in grave danger. If he was, then yes, bad on the OP for driving away. But if the cyclist was merely cold, wet, and uncomfortable because 1. he wasn't appropriately dressed and 2. he failed to check (or take heed of )the weather report before setting foot in the great outdoors, well then it's his own tough luck and hopefully he learned his lesson for next time. Also, the OP mentions that his wife was in the car. If the cyclist was in really bad shape and the OP somehow failed to notice, I think she would prolly object to leaving the guy stranded. (I know, that's yet another assumption). 

I have deduced that this incident occurred on Hwy 28 between Tahoe Vista and Tahoe City. (I may be incorrect). But if the cyclist was in fact on Hwy 28, there would be no shortage of traffic to flag down and hitch a ride. So maybe the OP didn't have room in his car and subconsciously realized that someone else with more space in their vehicle could and would come to this rider's aid in short order. That portion of Hwy 28 is lined with houses, it's basically a continuous suburb from Tahoe Vista to Tahoe City. It's not like it's the back of beyond or anything remotely remote.

Generalizations are just that: generalizations. They exist for a reason. Another term along those lines is profiling. We all do it to a greater or lesser degree. When used appropriately, I believe it's absolutely fine, and in certain situations, necessary and wise. Of course other times it's just plain wrong. It all depends...

By the way, I have aided many cyclists, both roadies and mtn bikers in the past. I have also ridden or driven right by many other cyclists that prolly could have used a helping hand (but didn't seem to be in any kind of danger). If that makes me a d.i.c.k. in the eyes of some, I'm OK with that.

Cheers!


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

Funny thing to me is that I personally don't carry more gear when mtbing than I do when on the road. 

Maybe that person/roadie was a tourist and didn't have all his gear. Who knows?
OP:
I think your conscience has gotten the best of you because you know you missed an opportunity to help the guy out. You're okay, we all make mistakes and learn from them.


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## beshannon (Oct 14, 2012)

mikewadley said:


> A biker is a biker, I can't imagine not helping someone out that is caught in a bad situation no matter what type of bike they are riding.





evasive said:


> Wow. Just wow.


I agree on both counts!

Just wow!


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## Stupendous Man (Jan 12, 2004)

If I see a rider (any kind, even motorcyclists) who needs assistance, I always stop and at least ask. Even if I'm not able to transport them and the bike, I will offer to call for help. Thus far my help has always been refused. But if I were ever in the same situation, I would appreciate the help from fellow cyclists.


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## jlmuncie (Sep 10, 2010)

A "freak snow storm with blizzard like conditions" is no joke. People die from that kind of thing.

http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/mountain-biker-froze-death-sad-story-901998.html


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## catsruletn (Dec 7, 2013)

evasive said:


> Wow. Just wow.


^^^This^^^

OP, glad you say you got some perspective. You needed it.

And what is with the spandex hate anyway? I love spandex. And I am like 90% mountain biker with an occasional foray into road riding.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

.
.
.

...this type of stuff, and just pluggin through it, makes a person harder than woodpecker lips


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

catsruletn said:


> ...
> 
> And what is with the spandex hate anyway? I love spandex. And I am like 90% mountain biker with an occasional foray into road riding...


Yeah, I don't understand it either. It's like people saying that they love running but they will refuse to wear sneakers and will wear snow boots instead 

It's called proper tool for proper job. I hate riding in my baggies. They bunch up, they limit my leg movements and get caught up on the seat all the time whenever I stand up for some trail features. But, some people value cool more than comfort, that's ok, but not everyone needs to be cool.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

I understand that cyclists are a community. I have given up my tube or rode home and back to help a roadie out with a pump, I almost always offer my multi to anyone on the side of the road ( especially the ladies . 

That said though, I would never expect someone with their wife and kid in the car to just let me hop on in. As I would never pick up any sort of hitch hiker, whether he had a bike or not. Risk vs Reward is just too far off. Sometimes you make your own luck and you have to learn from your mistakes. I ride flat shoes for two reasons 1) lower risk of injury 2) if I need to walk, I can do so with a normal stride. Both points help me to get myself home if things go wrong.

btw if you are stranded on the road, can't you just call a cab ? Might cost an arm and a leg to get them out there, but it was your choice to be there. Some mtbrs have to get airlifted out of the woods to get to a hospital, so a cab ride is easy and cheap by comparison. There is always the ambulance if you are suffering hypothermia.

Sorry if my opinion seems crass, but I guess I am more loner than community minded. Never had nor expected anyone to make up for my mistakes or lack of preparation. So I learned to be conservative in my decision-making.

Again, sorry to sound like a stick in the mud. I know lots of you guys have had great experiences. I am just offering my opinion.


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## Hextall (Nov 25, 2013)

Sorry to pile on after you've come around... but what seems most bothersome is not only did he need help, he asked for it. And you drove away. Put yourself in his shoes (or even better... your kid a decade or two from now), and ask what you'd think of someone that drove away after you/your kid asked someone for help.

Just imagine how high your horse could have been if you had helped him.


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

This is an interesting thread. It seams like there are a lot of people who would like to call the OP an A-hole because this rider was not prepared. Yeah, it was a freak storm, in the time of year when freak storms happen all the time. I'm not for leaving people freezing on the side of the road regardless of what type of bike they ride but there is definitely a mentality with many riders (road and mountain) that caring extra gear ruins their ride... even someone in this thread made a comment like, caring a pack on a road bike??? That would be no fun at all. I'm guessing the rider wished he would have inconvenienced himself with a little more gear and was fine as he was close to civilization and probably in cell range. I don't think that the OP intended ill will to the rider but just pointed out a trend of unpreparedness that is rampant amongst the road riding masses... your not racing the Tour de France, you don't have a support car, carry some gear.

I seriously hope that every person who has said something negative about the OP has taken time away from there family to help an ill prepared rider every time the situation arose.


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## mora0022 (Jun 1, 2012)

The guy had his wife and kid in the car, no room for the guy and his bike, or all of the riders friends up the road plus their gear. What is he supposed to do? Make trip after trip taking these people home? The best you can do is offer to call someone for him, but that's about it. I would never let someone in my car that I didn't know, especially if my wife and kids are with me. 

It sucks that they got stuck and were cold, but if you didn't have room there is nothing you can do about it. 

I was cold and miserable and cold on my rainy/snowy Saturday ride, but I just sucked it up and rode the 15 miles back home (no jacket).


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

OP here, just thought I should add a few more details regarding the situation, not that it in anyway justifies me not helping out this bicyclist.



jlmuncie said:


> A "freak snow storm with blizzard like conditions" is no joke. People die from that kind of thing.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/mountain-biker-froze-death-sad-story-901998.html


It was a freak storm and the temp dropped from almost 50 degrees down to about 34-32. However, I don't think the guy was in any kind of mortal danger being that about 1 to 1.5 miles down the highway is the town of Kings Beach with a Safeway and Starbucks and plenty of other businesses for shelter. Roads were wet, but snow was not sticking to them and did not end up doing so due to the warm temps and sun heating them up that morning. But that next 1 to 1.5 miles on a wet downhill with those skinny tires and rim brakes I assume would not have been very pleasant or possibly even safe.

If this were out in BFE somewhere I think I would have done what I could to help. I hope I would have, and after this thread I know I now will for sure.

With that said, since the guy was heading towards Kings Beach he may not of known that a town was so close since the direction he appeared to be coming from is about 10+ miles from Truckee with nothing really in-between so given that&#8230;



Stupendous Man said:


> If I see a rider (any kind, even motorcyclists) who needs assistance, I always stop and at least ask. Even if I'm not able to transport them and the bike, I will offer to call for help. Thus far my help has always been refused. But if I were ever in the same situation, I would appreciate the help from fellow cyclists.


I should at the very least rolled down my window to ask if he knew where he was going and if he knew there was shelter not far ahead. Also, I should have checked to make sure he had a cell phone, which i totally assume he did, but you never know and as I said earlier I didn't think he was in any kind of mortal danger, but a simple question of "are you alright" would have let me know for sure.

I should have done at least something to help the guy out, even if it was as little as rolling down my window to check on the guy and make sure he knew where he was going, where to find shelter and offer him my cell to use if he did not have one. However, I think I need to do more than that from now on if/when I see a roadie in need to make up for not doing at least the bare minimum to help this guy.


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## parkmeister (Feb 2, 2004)

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. So by your own account, Mr. Singletrackmack, the nearest Starbucks was OVER ONE MILE AWAY and you left that fellow bicycler forlorn by the side of the road to fend for himself while you smugly and selfishly drove away with no regard for the completely avoidable mental and physical anguish that you alone could have alleviated and that he no doubt suffered???

wow. just wow.

Choke yourself, you self righteous POS.

If i was you in this situation, I'd put guy in the car, take his bike and hold it with my arm out the window if I had to and drive back to the house to dropp the bike off or take the bike rack. Then I'd drop him off at his house or a place of his choice if his house was way off the route i was expecting to take.

...because his comfort and well being is your primary responsibility, nay, it is your sole purpose in life. Your wife? Your child? Pshaw!!!! They are but mere insignificant specks compared to that glorious Adonis that you so carelessly disregarded and abandoned. And not only he, but also every other precious and innocent lamb beautifully clad in the tightest and most miminally protective attire that found themselves lost in the wilderness who hath strayed from the safety of the shepherd's verdant and pastoral meadows. Their protective natural coats shaven bare to expose the wonderment and glory laying beneath. Yea, they expose themselves selflessly so that we may admire the beauty within....

Hope you learn not to be a d1ick next time.

...you hateful and bigoted sorry excuse for a human being. Embrace the beauty of lycra, you boorish philistine!!!!!!









Poor Mr. Singletrackmack... well actually, maybe it serves you right.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Centurion_ said:


> A lot of those "poor roadies" you're having such a good time looking down on are mountain bikers as well. I probably know some of them as I rode with the Reno Wheelmen when I lived in Susanville.
> 
> It's the middle of MAY. They got caught in a freak storm.
> 
> Get over yourself.


if you are going to ride in that area, be prepared.

these things happen.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

DethWshBkr said:


> Riding a road bike while carrying a backpack?
> 
> Talk about not an enjoyable ride at all. Carring pounds of crap on a mountain bike is nothing, carrying anything other than the basic water bottle and tubes/tools in an under saddle pack on a road bike is pretty much miserable.


i agree with you on that even though i don't ride road.

i do, however ride a cross bike on combined road/dirt trips and at first, i tried it with a camelbak. talk about pain! the drop bar riding position does not jibe well with wearing a pack. but i DO stuff my jersey pockets as full as i can stuff them when i head out on my cross.

we don't get many freak storms here in the bay area but the fog and cold can come in hard and fast, making a warm, sunny day a cold, clammy one.

again, be prepared.


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## iWiLRiDe (Apr 17, 2006)

Just a few months ago I recall a thread about stopping and helping someone with a flat tire vs not stopping and helping them out. I remember arguing that people should at least stop to see if someone is ok but I was bombarded with replies that people should be prepared and held accountable. This time I'm going to play devils advocate and agree that the OP did the right thing. I'm not saying he needs to drive the roadie anywhere but at least he stopped and checked in on him. There were a ton of others stuck in the weather as well, is the OP supposed to just take the responsibility and help everyone? Sure, if nobody was in his car he may have helped out but he had his wife and kid in there. I don't think he's being an a55hole for going upon his way.


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## Seph (Jul 27, 2013)

mikewadley said:


> A biker is a biker, I can't imagine not helping someone out that is caught in a bad situation no matter what type of bike they are riding.


A human being is a human being. i can't imagine not helping anyone caught in a bad situation period.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

There are two things going on here...helping/not helping a cyclist when he had family etc. in the car and the crass anti-roadie thing. I ride road, and don't often carry much with me beyond food/drink/flat fix etc. Fine..you didn't stop b/c you couldn't. Did he have a phone? Could you have offered yours/call for help? But the "roadies are d-bags/serves him right for wearing spandex"..really?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

shekky said:


> i do, however ride a cross bike on combined road/dirt trips and at first, i tried it with a camelbak. talk about pain! the drop bar riding position does not jibe well with wearing a pack. but i DO stuff my jersey pockets as full as i can stuff them when i head out on my cross.


Then how about a frame bag?


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

OP, don't take all the comments about you being a self-righteous prick and all too seriously. If you look hard enough at this site you'll see that's largely what it is made up of. I mean I couldn't possibly count how many times folks on this site call out overweight people, or people who like to watch team sports like football, but yet they'll goo over the TDF and neg rep anyone who event mentions what a D-Bag Lance Armstrong is...(wait...wait...it's comming). Ya, of all the people bashing you none of them have cheated on their taxes, or their spouse/sig other. They never smoke a cigar or drink alchohol. They don't partake in mind numbing marajuana or over-the-counter meds for more than pure pain control. They never drive distracted, they never JUDGE!

Self righteousness is staring many right in the face.

Anyway to your point, you did nothing wrong other than post your ignorant views on mtbr. Now that you've been all-schooled-up the world is a better place.


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

I don't have an opinion on your actions. I wasn't there, but I suggest you take a few road rides and see another perspective of cycling. It's quite fun. Different from Mtn biking but enjoyable all the same. Nothing like catching up with another roadie, getting on his wheel and working together and pushing each other without even speaking to each other. I have this experience quite often and it's really fun.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

parkmeister said:


> WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. So by your own account, Mr. Singletrackmack, the nearest Starbucks was OVER ONE MILE AWAY and you left that fellow bicycler forlorn by the side of the road to fend for himself while you smugly and selfishless drove away with no regard for the completely avoidable mental and physical anguish that you alone could have alleviated and that he no doubt suffered???
> 
> wow. just wow.
> 
> ...


ummm, not sure why you quoted me in your sarcastic coment. Maybe learn how to quote multiple responses correctly so it's clear to all of us what you're trying to write.

I was pointing out the fact that I'd try to help the guy. Since when, offering a helping hand is regarded as bad behavior. Yes, I care about my wife and kids ins a car but If i can help a guy out without going out of my way (which this would most likely not be such) why would I not want to do it. It's called good manners and behavior and I get teh feeling that the current generations of elitists are lacking it more and more.

My comment about him not being a d1ick next time referred to the fact that not only did he not offer help but he also ridiculed the poor guy.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

This is either totally unbelievable or a troll. Who needs perspective on helping another human being? Who cares what he was riding? Hopefully the OP does realize his mistake. 

BTW side story - this weekend I saw a gentleman riding up the trail on a Road Bike, he was on the older side - Very impressive I have to say - it didn't seem like anyone questioned his "bike"!


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Not sure if roadies or mtb'ers are d!cks but your average mtbr'er these days tends to be a judgemental pr!ck.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

People make mistakes. 

The road riders for not being a little more prepared.
The OP for not doing more to help. 
Some of the posters here for slamming the OP so hard. 

And I'm sure I'll show bad judgement again before too long.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Good for the op for learning something and taking all the abuse like a grown up. 

I ride on the road. I would never carry a backpack. Maybe some arm and leg warmers and a jacket if I thought the weather would warrant it. But I was thinking of skiing near there this last weekend for the last time and checked the weather and snow was not in the horizon. 

Riding a road bike, you don't have the same kinds of mechanicals; you try to be more aerodynamic; and you certainly don't account for improbable freak storms even though you should. So, your packing is mostly surrounding the mindset of not bonking and repairing flats. I feel for them and would ride like hell to get off the mountain.

OP, don't beat yourself up though. It's done. Nobody died (that I've heard). And everybody involved learned something. Like me: I should have gone skiing.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

DethWshBkr said:


> Riding a road bike while carrying a backpack?
> 
> Talk about not an enjoyable ride at all. Carring pounds of crap on a mountain bike is nothing, carrying anything other than the basic water bottle and tubes/tools in an under saddle pack on a road bike is pretty much miserable.


Freezing to death is a lot less fun. Taking responsibility for your own safety is part of being an adult.Weather in mountainous areas is always unpredictable weather can change fast.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

Because a mountain biker has never ever been ill prepared... I've seen people all the time out on the trails miles from their cars with no water, helmets, food, tools, tubes, jackets, etc... Don't think I ever thought "serves them right, stupid mountain bikers and their baggy clothes," though. Ill prepared is ill prepared, not sure why spandex or the type of bike comes into play. I think the reception to this thread could've been a little bit better if there wasn't the us vs. them mentality underlying it. Surprisingly enough to some on here, we're not all strictly mountain bikers!


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

" I think the reception to this thread could've been a little bit better if there wasn't the us vs. them mentality underlying it."

good point.

i am them, i am us...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

girlonbike said:


> Riding a road bike, you don't have the same kinds of mechanicals; you try to be more aerodynamic; and you certainly don't account for improbable freak storms even though you should. So, your packing is mostly surrounding the mindset of not bonking and repairing flats. I feel for them and would ride like hell to get off the mountain.


Exactly.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Oh happy day!


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

A ton of roadies are ALSO mountain bikers. It is called "being well rounded" as a cyclist in general.

We are all cyclists. Simple as that.

Stick together.

OP, a lot of folks would not self-reflect in an honest way. Good for you for doing so.:thumbsup:

Now go suit up in a spandex outfit and sweep some bike lanes


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## Ryandurepo (Nov 29, 2012)

O.P. please tell me...how many negative rep alerts have you gotten after starting this post?


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## 802spokestoke (Jun 20, 2012)

Next time, definetly take the kids home, grab the truck, and go save everyone (Joking, You did nothing wrong). Luckily, nobody got hurt. Had somone died then I could understand a guilty conscience, but they didn't and all is good. This thread has given some amusing opinions on spandex, aerodynamics, and mtbr member reputaion.
If I were riding at elevation in May, I think weather/safety would absolutely be number 1 concern even if that meant bagging a ride because there was weather in the area or wearing a pack.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Ryandurepo said:


> O.P. please tell me...how many negative rep alerts have you gotten after starting this post?


After reading the first few comments right after I posted, I thought for sure I would have double digit neg reps. However I actually only received 1 neg rep and got 3 or 4 pos reps for admitting I needed to change my attitude.

I see someone called me out for possibly being a troll, which would make sense to me if this was a road bike web site or forum. I guess they are questioning my intentions when starting this thread which I did myself after reading the first few responses. Then I realized, I basically felt bad for not doing something to help that roadie out and wanted to justify my inaction. Being a mtb website I assumed the responses would be something along the lines of, "yeah serves that skinny tire riding, lycra wearing, road hogging, unprepared roadie right" which might have made me feel better about not helping.

Since the responses were the exact opposite of what I expected and that I have a great deal of passion for mountain biking and consider other mountain bikers to be somewhat of my peers, I realized that I had the wrong attitude and needed to change it.

I have to say i have absolutely no desire to road bike for various reasons, but realize that the two types of biking are linked and that many of my friends who mtb and many mountain bikers on this web site also road bike and I should do what I can to help them out when in need.

As far as why do some mountain bikers like to separate out road from mountain biking and make fun of them; well the best analogy I can give would be like when I was playing rugby in college. We would make fun of lacrosse players for having to wear protective gear and full face masks but weren't allowed to tackle and I know they made fun of us for wearing very short shorts knee high socks and for not being the smartest bunch. However, after our matches on Saturdays, we often found ourselves partying together, making fun of each other and singing songs all in good spirit, because we realized both sports are tough and we ain't that different. Kinda like road and mountain biking.

As you can see from my signature, I believe mtbing is superior to road biking  (JK) and that I like drinking (and quoting movies about the 80's). When I drink, I have fun making fun of others, which I believe is why they call it making fun. As long as it is in good spirit then I think it's all good, so with that said...



catsruletn said:


> And what is with the spandex hate anyway? I love spandex. And I am like 90% mountain biker with an occasional foray into road riding.





rallymaniac said:


> It's called proper tool for proper job. I hate riding in my baggies. They bunch up, they limit my leg movements and get caught up on the seat all the time whenever I stand up for some trail features. But, some people value cool more than comfort, that's ok, but not everyone needs to be cool.


I wasn't really pointing out the spandex because i have spandex hate, it was more to show that the choice in clothing was not right for negatively changing weather conditions. Personally, I think lycra is awesome. I remember back in the early 90's spandex wearing mountain bikers were quite common. I still think wearing spandex is fine when mtbing, as long as a fanny pack, wrap around oakleys and a helmet with no vizor are worn too like in this radical trek video (I actually had the same exact handle bar extensions as the guy with the fanny pack and i still own my '91 trek 970).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyrlEE9AV58#t=38


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

*Poor roadies&#8230; well actually, maybe it serves them right.*

Most of the Sierra gets more snow in May than October. This wasn't a freak storm. It's normal.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

I think you're overthinking this. I mean...take the "roadie" and the "mountinbiker" nouns out of this and just make it "people." We all have more in common than you think.

As for your "... I believe mtbing is superior to road biking" statement, that's just weird. They are simply two similar but different activities. But the logical progression from that statement is that mountain bikers are superior to road bikers, and I think it may explain the superior and condescending attitude you displayed in your original post. I mean...how far are you gonna carry this? When you ride past a single speeder walking his bike on a long steep climb, is your way of riding superior to his? Is he unprepared and now subject to derision because he didn't bring along some more gears?

Roadbike, mountainbike, unicycle, runner, hiker, who cares? You see somebody in a jam, you help em out if and when you can.

I like the way you came around and changed your view after that first post, which is why I positive rep'd you. Now it's time to just let this go.


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

I like the video. Brings me back.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Centurion_ said:


> I think you're overthinking this. I mean...take the "roadie" and the "mountinbiker" nouns out of this and just make it "people." We all have more in common than you think.
> 
> As for your "... I believe mtbing is superior to road biking" statement, that's just weird. They are simply two similar but different activities. But the logical progression from that statement is that mountain bikers are superior to road bikers, and I think it may explain the superior and condescending attitude you displayed in your original post. I mean...how far are you gonna carry this? When you ride past a single speeder walking his bike on a long steep climb, is your way of riding superior to his? Is he unprepared and now subject to derision because he didn't bring along some more gears?
> 
> ...


Just trying to have some fun with it. As far as mtb being superior to road, I was making fun of my beliefs. Thought the whole rugby vs lacrosse explanation would have cleared that up, but i didn't include a winking smiley face so I can see how that may be confusing. I will add one.

However, it's let go.


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## Stupendous Man (Jan 12, 2004)

Let it go....let it go....





being a roadie frozen on my bike never bothered me anyway


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## Slee_Stack (Apr 14, 2010)

I don't much ride the road anymore as I'm too scared of motorists.

When I did road ride, I'd nearly always wear a medium sized camelbak. Admittedly, not many other road riders did. In my group at the time, only one other person did.

I was never a great road rider, but I never had a problem on any ride with a pack on my back...including a century and plenty of 30-60mi rides.

I suppose most road riders are out to race others or themselves. I can understand not wanting a pack to slow you down any if 'fast' is your primary objective.

Regardless, I'm fairly certain I'd never give up convenience for an extra few tenths mi average speed though. I like security...


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## criscobike (Feb 21, 2013)

I was out for a first time ride up a big mountain pass ride near my home in Utah called the Alpine Loop (very original, I know). We headed up in July while the temps in the valley was mid 90's with clear sun planned for the whole day. Planned to enjoy the cooler mountain temps as we got higher up. I had done lots of riding (mtb and road) for years, but had never done this big loop. It was TOUGH but worth it as I got near the top. Right as we hit the summit though a storm had brewed up on the other side of the mountain and snuck it's way up the canyon on the opposite side of the mountain. We didn't stand a chance. In less than 5 minutes we were slammed by driving rain and hail. We were in nothing but regular kits and were soaked through very quickly. We decided we could either duck into the trees and try to find shelter to pass the storm or bolt down the mountain. Not knowing how long the storm would last, we decided to bolt back down. We were so cold by the bottom our hands could barely squeeze the breaks. Still we were in ok spirits as we just had an easy canyon to ride down and we were home. Then we hit s set of rumble strips and I somehow flatted. We had a spare with us, but it turned out to have a hole in it. Now while we stood there contemplating what to do, the wind and hail started up again. I was shivering pretty hard by now and began to get slurred speech. When right at that minute a guy who had been driving the opposite way pulled around and stooped in front of us. Dude said he was a biker and saw that we could use help. He didn't have a rack on his small car, but we took the bike apart and shoved it in the best we could. I sat in the front seat and he blasted the heater for me. In a few minutes I was feeling better and he dropped me off at my home. Not sure what would have happened if that guy had not stopped when he did. 
I'll be looking to pay it forward when I get the chance. But I did decide that I would always have a weather shell and patch kit when I do long road rides in the mountains.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I live in the high mountains also ( Big Bear Lake, Ca), so I know about how the weather can change. It really doesn't matter what your riding when you get caught up in a weird weather pattern, I've been caught out in bad weather on my road bike as well as my mountain bike. In the spring it is wise to watch the weather and dress and prepare appropriately.
For those who just can't stand road riding or riders, get over it. Most have never made a serious attempt to try it, maybe if they did, they'd get it. I split my time 50/50 between the two, both are awesome and each has its own type of qualities.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

All this PC crap aside. 
Mountain bikers ime tend to be much better prepared than "roadies".
I don't care if you are trying to be aero and don't don't think you have the same mechanicals. If you go into the wilderness and this does include mountain passes etc you better be prepared either way for variable weather conditions. If you won't take care of your own safety "STAY AT HOME' and do a spin class.
Safety and being prepared is you own personal responsibility. Leaving your safety up to passing motorists is a BS way to act.
Mountain passes don't have freak storms. They have regular alpine weather which could be anything at any time.. I've seen it snow in august for example.
Flame on I don't care. I live in a mountainous area and and tired of seeing poorly prepared idiots needing rescue AND putting other peoples lives at risk for their bad judgement.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Roadies by nature don't believe in safety. Otherwise they wouldn't take their changes on a bike with a styrofoam helmet surrounded by two ton cars piloted by texting drivers.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I think the OP gets it now.
To those who don't like road riding because of safety issues, I do not feel unsafe while out road riding, sure if you get hit, your going to lose, but you can't think about that. Personally, I have 3 friends that got hit by cars riding off road, one of the cars was a police car(Ford Bronco)


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## dcb (Sep 19, 2005)

Well I think the OP has learned from this thread so let's just move on. I started out just mountain biking but as the years progressed I've also taken to the road and to CX racing. I'd stop and help out any roadie or mtb biker having trouble.

But, if they were on a recumbent or a unicyle I'd keep right on going.... probably give them the finger to. You have to draw the line someplace right?


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## CBBaron (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: Poor roadies&#8230; well actually, maybe it serves them right.*



Jayem said:


> Then how about a frame bag?
> 
> View attachment 893016


I have recently discovered frame bags. Great solution for carrying some basic supplies like suggested in the thread without much weight or comfort.

But then again I'm usually the guy with a rack and trunk on a touring bike or similarly over loaded option.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

CBBaron said:


> I have recently discovered frame bags. Great solution for carrying some basic supplies like suggested in the thread without much weight or comfort.
> 
> But then again I'm usually the guy with a rack and trunk on a touring bike or similarly over loaded option.
> 
> Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2


That's good on you. There are literally hundreds of different types on Amazon, and one can find a bag to fit their frame/spot nicely IMO, from the main triangle to all the little nooks and crannys that can fit something. I really like my bag that mounts in front of the seatpost, just the right size for my basic tools and a tube (like a seat bag, but closer to the frame and not hanging out).

A common roadie mindset is this I believe:

"I'll be riding along with a support van or support stops of some kind"

"I'll be riding in a big roadie group and someone will have a couple basic tools or supplies"

Not always the case of course, but on any given day there always seem to be a lot more "big" roadie rides than mountain bike rides and the number of riders is usually significantly more.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> I ride on the road. I would never carry a backpack. Maybe some arm and leg warmers and a jacket if I thought the weather would warrant it.
> 
> Riding a road bike, you don't have the same kinds of mechanicals; you try to be more aerodynamic; and you certainly don't account for improbable freak storms even though you should. So, your packing is mostly surrounding the mindset of not bonking and repairing flats.


Backpacks can be a pain on road bikes, or one can raise their bar a bit and take the time to fit a pack for cycling. You have to wear them a good bit lower, not all packs are bike friendly, try before you buy...

I say, however, that a backpack is not required for what they needed. Rain jackets, windbreakers, fleece jackets and warmers us roadies use have been rediculously thin since the 80's. Even back then, there were seatpacks in which you could store all these items, and you don't need a massive cave. These days, almost every seapack expands 30-100%. Between a jersey pocket and decent seatpack, there is no reason one cannot be completely prepared for a 30ºF drop and change to rain or snow, AND have their gels and nanners, AND a pair of slipcovers or something... I used to have a pair of thin water shoes in my seat pack just for breaks. These guys probably have some great notiion that they are rolling 2mph faster without a large seat pack. No matter, they chose to not be prepared, living in an area where they know they shouldn't roll that dice. Hopefully NOT having an easy out means they will be better prepared next time.

Sorry, can't sympathize with people that think everything is going to work out ok no matter what, so no need to prepare.

A properly adjusted brake system on a road bike will lose a good bit of grip, but you can still safely brake. Winter was skills training time back when I raced. Snow, slush, didn't matter, although realistically depth of more than two inches became a chore real fast, and being in the off season meant layoff the cardiio. Fun times learning to finesse the brakes and not go beyond the limits.


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

non life threatening situation, your car was full, starbucks 1 mile away?
you did nothing wrong.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

No, it's not common for road riders to think that " there is a support van" or " support stops" or that someone else will have what I need. It seems like in this case it was a rider who just got caught out in bad weather. I wonder how many mountain bikers were caught out in the same storm? Living in the mountains, storms sometimes do un expectantly blow in and I have personally been caught out in some both on and off road. 
We really need to cut this " us against them" mentally. If you don't riding the road, don't like wearing Lycra, that's fine, don't do it.
Years ago, I used to race downhill, XC and road, sometimes some of the very people who I would race dh against would see me on my XC or road bike and would make comments about my "gay" Lycra, then a race would come along and I would kick there arses because I was way fitter and could pedal much of the dh course, basically, moral to the story is, riding road or XC will make any facet of your riding way better.


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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

DethWshBkr said:


> Riding a road bike while carrying a backpack?
> 
> Talk about not an enjoyable ride at all. Carring pounds of crap on a mountain bike is nothing, carrying anything other than the basic water bottle and tubes/tools in an under saddle pack on a road bike is pretty much miserable.


Fair enough, just don't complain when you are freezing your ass off on the side of the road.


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

Random ramblings...
My primary riding is MTB but also have and enjoy a roadie that I've ridden in the Tahoe area. In today's age its really easy to look at a weather app to anticipate what one will encounter. Then, quick changes happen up there all the time. Be ready. Been on rides where the temp will vary by 30 degrees. I've heard that there is no bad weather, just bad choice in gear.

I have encountered more roadies than MTB riders with no tools or lack of gear. It doesn't take much space to drop a basic mini-tool, spare link and a couple tubes and pump on the bike. I'm not talking about new riders either. Its a different mind set for the skinny tire set. Last dude had tube but no frigging pump.....or CO2. WTF? Helping him out gave me an excuse to take a break on the climb though.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Living in the mountains, storms sometimes do un expectantly blow in and I have personally been caught out in some both on and off road.


No, they don't. Anyone with enough knowledge and ability to ride a bike can interpret the weather forecast and basic weather products, especially when we are talking about looking at it before you go and not 5 days before.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Wrong answer....while you may have an idea of a possible storm coming in...sometimes.
I'm a fan of following the weather, and not just for my rides.
Living in the mountains(my house is at 6800'), storms do come up as a surprise sometimes, been caught out in a few over the years, one of such rides happened last September, got caught in a thunderstorm with the heaviest downpour I've ever ridden in and the temperature dropped about 30 degrees, it happened about 15 miles with about 1200' of climbing left to go from my house, I did get a little cold, but the more I rode, the better I felt, it was an awesome ride.
I cannot speak for the road rider in particular that the OP was talking about, who knows? maybe he was taking a big risk, maybe the OP can pipe in here, since he lives in Tahoe, and he can inform us of the weather forecast that day, but its all behind us now, I sure the guy did learn something about being a little more prepared.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Oh, I've been caught in thunderstorms more than a few times, but they were not surprises. In fact, given a warm mountain area in excess of the normal lapse rate and decent humidity, it's likely. I live in Alaska and we have far less weather reporting than the lower 48, yet we can still forecast the weather with enough accuracy so that when you are out there you have a good idea of what to expect. Storms do not "come out of nowhere" these days. Maybe bikepacking without access to the internet you would be subject to a variety of "weather out of nowhere", but in that case one would expect one to be prepared for nearly all types of weather. 

Thunderstorms can form relatively fast, I've watched them many times in AZ, but you'd have a good idea what the weather is doing by watching the clouds and being aware. They wouldn't be "coming out of nowhere".


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Hey Jayem, can't really speak for Alaska or even Tahoe so much, where I live in Big Bear Lake which is 70miles east and 6500' above LA, we have some of the most unpredictable weather in the world, partially due to having the largest expanse of flat terrain( the Pacific ) and we are surrounded by deserts. 
I have checked the local weather before rides and in a couple of situations, the forecast had a very low possibility of rain and/ or snow, so I would take the chance and not carry extra clothing. Yes, I have been caught out in weather a few times unprepared, but since I started mountain biking in 1982, I never had a life threatening circumstance.
As far as mountain bikers being more prepared then road riders, I've seen almost as much off road as I have on, but at least on the road, you have more access to help in most cases.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Hey Jayem, can't really speak for Alaska or even Tahoe so much, where I live in Big Bear Lake which is 70miles east and 6500' above LA, we have some of the most unpredictable weather in the world, partially due to having the largest expanse of flat terrain( the Pacific ) and we are surrounded by deserts.
> I have checked the local weather before rides and in a couple of situations, the forecast had a very low possibility of rain and/ or snow, so I would take the chance and not carry extra clothing. Yes, I have been caught out in weather a few times unprepared, but since I started mountain biking in 1982, I never had a life threatening circumstance.
> As far as mountain bikers being more prepared then road riders, I've seen almost as much off road as I have on, but at least on the road, you have more access to help in most cases.


July/Aug/Sept that's monsoon season in SoCal and especially AZ, need to expect T-storms with heavy downpour if there's even a whiff of humidity.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

Here is great article on this very subject.
Pinkbike Poll: Are You Prepared, or Are You a Parasite? - Pinkbike


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## criscobike (Feb 21, 2013)

The one time I was caught in a dangerous storm I was riding on the East side of an 11,000 foot peak. When I left my home on the west side of the peak the sky's were perfectly clear and plenty warm. No sign of storm on the horizon nor in the forecast. It formed unexpectedly out of nowhere on the west side of the mountain and therefor, we could not see it at all until it came over the summit. It moved so fast that we didn't have more than 5 minutes to react and turn for home. Mountains CAN create weird freaky weather all on their own. Yes, I SHOULD have had some kind of weather gear with me in the mountains. But to say that any intelligent person can always know when a storm is coming is just way too simple of a conclusion. There are weird exceptions to every possible situation.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

MTBers don't wear spandex 'cause they want to be cool vs roadies don't wear packs 'cause they want to be cool. I wear a pack everywere I ride and wear spandex on the trail. I must look like an idiot.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

The difference between caught out in a dangerous storm on a mountain bike in a remote area, and being caught out in a dangerous storm on a road bike on a well traveled road close to town seems to have escaped some folks.

On a road bike...most of the time...help and shelter are not far away, and you won't be hard to locate if you have an emergency.

On a mountain bike, out in the desert or up in the mountains miles from a roadway...not so much.


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

Centurion_ said:


> The difference between caught out in a dangerous storm on a mountain bike in a remote area, and being caught out in a dangerous storm on a road bike on a well traveled road close to town seems to have escaped some folks.
> 
> On a road bike...most of the time...help and shelter are not far away, and you won't be hard to locate if you have an emergency.


Once again roadies relying on someone else for their safety. Man up lycratards!


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

^^^
Dude.

It's the difference between getting in your car and driving to the next town, and getting into a jeep e and going off road out into the wilderness.

Do you carry all sorts of survival gear and mechanics tools in your automobile? For those that don't...does that make them tards?

Very different aspects of a similar sport. Roadies are all about speed. Real speed. Montainbiking requires a different set of skills and the ability to deal with much more difficult conditions and potentially much more difficult situations.

If you can't understand that...


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.

My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well. 

He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Reelchef67 said:


> Once again roadies relying on someone else for their safety. Man up lycratards!


But we get their body parts after they get hosed ... it's a win, win.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

HBSURFDAD said:


> Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.
> 
> My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well.
> 
> He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.


 Why do you hate speed?


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## Reelchef67 (Aug 21, 2011)

HBSURFDAD said:


> Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.
> 
> My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well.
> 
> He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.


Yes I believe it is the correct question. ( btw I carry tools, and other roadside emergency stuff in my car)
Its one thing to road riding an urban environment but up the boonies in a mountain pass requires a whole different level preparedness.
You to yourself and families.

Disclaimer:
I reserve to the right to be politically incorrect and use the term "Lycratards" when it is appropriate to the situation at hand.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I used to live in the area in the OP. Although those 'freak storms' happen from time to time (I remember riding my sportbike to work in the sun one morning and back in the snow in the afternoon in april) they don't happen all the time. If you're not from the mountains it's sometimes hard to know that the weather might be a *LOT* different 1500-2k vert higher than the nice and sunny you started in. 

I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal. Guy got caught out, someone almost certainly stopped and helped. Guy will check the weather and maybe bring rain gear and some warmers next time.


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## Marc2211 (Aug 6, 2013)

Interesting thread and in honesty I am not sure on which side I fall. 

I always carry a Camelbak (Blowfish20) pack with me, which contains a small tool kit/multi tools, Co2 tubes, a mini pump, spare tube (even though I run tubeless) a rain coat etc, 2 energy bars etc My friends laugh as it 'weighs a ton' and this why I can't climb as quick as them! (The real reason is the 30 extra pounds I carry around these days from when I was younger!).

At work we are split into 2 camps, Roadies (3 or 4) and MTB riders (3 or 4). Of the Roadies, only 1 carries a pack with a tool kit, spares, coat etc... the rest run 2 water bottles, and this is it - the reason... Strava. They are obsessed with keeping weight down, retaining their KOMs on the way home etc. It is not unheard of them to leave their gear cached behind a tree or bush before a Strava KOM attempt, only to pick it up on the way back. In honesty, I don't get it.

Knowing how unprepared some of them are, if I saw a rider that wasn't in danger, I'd be tempted to do the same as the OP if I had no room in the car to give them a lift. After a few miles walking, maybe they think twice next time. (obviously if it was a -20c freak blizzard I'd help). 

Maybe I'm a bad person, but heck it doesn't take a lot to look at the weather forecast before a ride, or carry a Co2 canister, rain coat or pump.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

I too would not stop to help unless the riders were in danger of injury or death. Sure, if I had room and it was no problem, but with the car already full, nope. The rider must take responsibility and be prepared.

Also, critiquing a subset of riding culture (roadies) is a valuable thing to do. Each type of cycling has a somewhat different culture and each has faults or quirks that put them in danger. BMX riders, even the pros, tend to not wear helmets. Similarly, roadies tend to be caught without helpful gear. Mountain bikers ride in remote locations where medical evac can be a lengthy process.

Observing and commenting on these differences isn't being a jerk. Or at least it doesn't have to be expressed in a mean-spirited way.

I personally like to be prepared and always have more clothing, tools, water and calories than is needed 99% of the time. It's that other 1% of the time that I prepare for. Roadies tend not to do this. But does this make me or other well equipped camelpak wearers superior? In one way, yes. But looking at just that in isolation isn't the right perspective. Mountain bikers ride trails where it might take an hour or more just to haul an injured person back to a dirt road. So who's putting themselves in more danger? 

So that's what I try to tell myself when seeing unprepared cyclists riding on the road. They might get caught without enough clothing and request a ride. Yet someday I might find myself with a broken leg and need evacuation far from a road. Each type of rider weighs the probabilities and might need to rely on the help of others.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Interesting because I do road ride, and I've gotten some flack from "roadies" (who in my book are different than someone who just rides on the road, like me) for carrying too much stuff. Like it is a sign of my noob-ness. I don't like wearing a backpack on the road, so I have a rear rack with a small bag on it with extra stuff. Of course, my idea of lunch on a ride is a slice of chicken pot-pie and a banana, not goo out of a packet. I also pack all the water I need for the ride I want to do (which is often the back-back roads), not plan my route around water stops to save the weight of a 2nd water bottle. And if I am going to stop somewhere for lunch in the middle of the rural VA or WV, I do the other patrons (and myself) a favor and bring some thin light pants to cover up my junk. Yes, my Strava times suffer, but whatever.

I lived in Tahoe for a few years, and abso-freaking-lutely I always had an extra layer even on the road. Don't care what time of year it was. Was not rocking the rear rack (stupid race bike) so wore a backpack if I needed to (to the chagrin of my road-riding companions).

Now, in defense of those roadies who are gram-obsessed minimalists, part of the reason mountain bikers really need to carry so much extra stuff is that we are often out in the middle of nowhere, miles from the nearest help (such as a road). Road riders (especially in a place like Tahoe) are never that far from help if things get dire. Those folks you passed were inconvenienced, and uncomfortable, but that is about it. If things got really bad (like hypothermia was a risk) they could most likely get someone to help them out. Not so out on the trail.

Just due to the nature of what mountain bikers do, even with all the stuff we bring along, I am willing to bet that we require more outside help to get us out of bad situations more than the minimalist roadies do.

BTW, when I say "roadies" I am referring to a particular subculture (a very prevalent one) within the on-road cycling community.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dfiler said:


> Also, critiquing a subset of riding culture (roadies) is a valuable thing to do. Each type of cycling has a somewhat different culture and each has faults or quirks that put them in danger. BMX riders, even the pros, tend to not wear helmets. Similarly, roadies tend to be caught without helpful gear.


It's only valuable if it's helpful and wrongly painting an entire group with a broad brush is anything but helpful IMO. My experience has been that most roadies are very well prepared and pay close attention to weather forecasts. I used to go on daily group rides that included 50 or so riders and every person there was always appropriately dressed and carrying spare tubes and pumps.

I don't carry a lot of gear on road (or mtb) rides but I accept the consequences of my choices. I can, and have waited out a storm under a barn eave or something similar or just toughed it out and busted home. So have most other riders I've known.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's only valuable if it's helpful and wrongly painting an entire group with a broad brush is anything but helpful IMO. My experience has been that most roadies are very well prepared and pay close attention to weather forecasts. I used to go on daily group rides that included 50 or so riders and every person there was always appropriately dressed and carrying spare tubes and pumps.
> 
> I don't carry a lot of gear on road (or mtb) rides but I accept the consequences of my choices. I can, and have waited out a storm under a barn eave or something similar or just toughed it out and busted home. So have most other riders I've known.


Certainly everyone is an individual. Yet the different groups do have different cultures and behaviors. It is ok to discuss these differences. Granted, sometimes that can devolve into attacking and defending rather than good natured discussion.


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## parkmeister (Feb 2, 2004)

roadie on a mountain bike:

Post by Travis Pastrana.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

That's the trailhead for Corral/Sidewinder in south tahoe. That rock is a super easy launchpad, but not if you don't pull up on the bars. 



parkmeister said:


> roadie on a mountain bike:
> 
> Post by Travis Pastrana.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

*Poor roadies&#8230; well actually, maybe it serves them right.*

Some roadies really enjoy risk. I recently had one tailgate me down a winding mountain road. I was in my car and I guess, since I was going the speed limit, I was too slow. He was very close and I couldn't safely pull over into the gravel shoulder. If an animal would've ran across the road and I braked suddenly, he'd had been toast. Roid rage is dangerous.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Please, let the sleeping pigs be...


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I think in every facet of cycling there is risk and taking risk is part of the equation. Maybe the guy drafting behind SS Hack was taking a little more risk then he should have, but that's all part of it, probably not too smart though.
I ride a lot of road, probably 50/50, I ride mostly mountain roads and know the risk involved, it only takes one driver not paying attention. Off road there are many risk also and the chances of crashing hard are far greater than on the road since there are so much more variables. You're usually far away from any help, since I also ride alone often, usually because I like to do real long rides, if I crash hard and I'm not able to contact someone, I could be screwed, although I do tell my wife of my route.
Anyway, to those that say they don't ride the road because of the fear of being hit, that's ok, but the chances of being hurt off road are far greater, just a little more controlled.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I'd love to know some actual statistics. I control my risks off road; roadies are at the mercy of others. Maybe it's just my perception that road biking is worse or the fact that I've seen quite a few roadies under police blankets (face covered) on the side of California roads. I'll continue to trust in dirt.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Cyclists suffer hypothermia in California storms - SFGate


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## Appalachian_Kamper (Jul 18, 2014)

Whilst on my road bike, I've come across plenty of mountain bikers with a flat tire, out of adjustment piece of kit, or some other dilemma that were stranded. I stopped to help them out 'cause I had the tool or patching kit. On more than one occasion, not only did I come about a mountain biker with a flat tire and no kit, but also, upon throwing him my repair gear, he/she/they didn't even know how to use it, and even if they did, he/she/none of 'em had a pump. On rare occasions, I stumble upon a person with a flat tire who's got hex nuts holding their wheels on the frame...

Whilst on my mountain bike, I came upon a roadie with a blown tire. When I asked if he had a patching kit, he snapped back, "I know how to patch a tire, but this tube's shot." When I asked him if he wanted one of mine, he curtly said, "26 inch tubes will not fit 700 x 23c!" I reached in my milk crate, pulled out a 700 - 23c tube, thew it on the ground next to him, and he looked up like a kid on Christmas morning all thanks and beside himself.

I ride in the mountains of Pennsylvania, which I don't have to say are significantly smaller than those on the left coast, but the weather here's strange and unpredictable. I did something I rarely do, I drove from the valley, where it was 55° and sunny, up to the mountain to ride an old abandoned railroad grade. I was planning a 40 mile round trip.

It was noticeably colder up on the mountain. Further damning, the entire trail's on the northern slope, so it's completely shaded. When I got 10 miles from the truck, not only did the weather change, but the ice on the puddles looked rather daunting. Not wanting to adopt hen house ways, I pressed on. Was that ever stupid of me. About 15 miles from the truck, I began to shiver just as the snow started coming down. I'd forgotten my wool long johns and sweater, so I stopped and made a fire to thaw my toes and fingers out. I had to limp home making a fire every ten or fifteen minutes with knees that just didn't want to bend. Good thing I carry a ferro rod, or the situation probably could have turned out a lot worse. Even with the frequent fires to warm myself, my fingers and toes were painfully numb upon reaching the truck, so much so that I could barely open the unlocked door and turn the ignition key over. My teeth rattled the entire way home even with the heater cranked on high. It took about a good hour to hour and a half to bring my core temperature back to normal.

Moral of the story, I've been that idiot more than once myself, and on occasion, I've also been the gloating other cyclist full of hubris and contempt for other person who don't plan ahead. Thankfully, most of the latter was left behind during my early 30s, but I _can_ assure you that I _still_ have my weak moments.

Road versus trail:

In my area and experience, copperheads and rattlesnakes are at least predictable, but I never know whether it's a snake or a shadow/branch on the trail until I run it over... While on the trail, pedestrians are very unpredictable. More than once, after giving an audible warning, the pedestrians scattered like a flock of geese being shot at as they took steps to the left/right to see what was coming, which effectively blocked the entire trail. Gaggles of pleasure riders dawdling along the trail in echelon right/left formation aren't much better than the pedestrians, and are usually traveling at a blistering 5 mph... The biggest wildcard on the trail would be the numerous cavalcades of equestrian riders. Bicycles seem to put the fear of God into horses. It's really six of one, half a dozen of the other in both _my_ area and _limited_ experience when it comes to road versus the trail.

Thank you for reading.

Cheers,
Appalachian Kamper


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I rode on a dirt road once, does that count? I remember this because the rear spokes on my 20 inch bike were loose, it started wobbling so badly that I went over the handle bars at about ten miles per hour. That would have been around 1964.
<O</O
I just moved near a bikeway, so I resurrected my 1982 Motobecane. I was on a thirty mile bike ride last year, which I wasn't in shape for, I tried to jump a curb and I missed. My weight came down on the handlebars about the time I hit the curb. I hit so hard I broke the shifter cables. My bicycle was laying in the road, I was on the side of the road with blood running down my face and no cars stopped. Some guy walked by me with his daughter, looked at my face and groaned as he kept walking. Fortunately, I did not smash my cell phone. My wife wouldn't allow me to ride again until I bought a helmet.
<O</OHere is my 'bad to a biker' story.
My GPS keeps telling me to take Rt 67 back from New Milford through Southbury, so I thought that I would give it a try. It was way to winding and narrow for a 75 foot long truck, and there were lots of bike riders. I was passing a bike(no break down lane to speak of), my left tires were sitting on the double yellow line when a pack of motorcycles two abreast were coming around the blind corner on the hill. I looked in my righthand mirror and yanked the wheel to the right. The bicyclest flew off the road and stopped staring at me. I'm hoping that I didn't almost hit him, I think that I frightened him by putting an 80,000 pound truck a foot in front of his front tire. I guess I'll never know. I really wanted to quit, but, I always want to quit. A week later my supervisor came up to me and said "Do you know that even if you are part time you have paid sick days you can cash in?" I got enough money to buy a new bike. I'm trying to come up with a moral to the story but I don't have one. How about take the bad with the good even if we are bad and good?


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

> I'm trying to come up with a moral to the story but I don't have one.


If you're driving an 80,000 lb truck dont pass cyclists on a blind corner?


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I was going out for a quick 10 mile ride, it was such a nice day I decided to make it a long ride. All that I had with me were two bottles of water. What a difference. The hills I normally climb in granny I was going up in sixth gear. I felt like I was flying.

On a long ride, I usually bring my bag with a canteen full of water, poweraid, slimfast, and last 30 mile trip I brought a sandwich. To my extreme surprise, Dunkin Donuts has all of these items. I think that there are at least 8 restaurants I could go to on this 30 mile loop. I think I see why roadies do not carry anything(yes, I have a tire repair kit).


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Poweraid, slimfast, and a sandwich for a 30 mile roadie ride lasting maybe...2 hours?

Really?


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

Centurion_ said:


> Poweraid, slimfast, and a sandwich for a 30 mile roadie ride lasting maybe...2 hours?
> 
> Really?


Not sure that I am in the catergory of being a roadie. I'm going to be 61 in Februrary-30 miles is a four hour ride for me. Plus I am already carrying an extra 20 lbs around with me(I've lost 25). Didn't know how out of shape I was until I got stronger. 6 miles was a long trip for me last year. I ran a farm until last year-not exactly a couch potatoe. Still, I was in a lot worse shape than I thought. I can actually walk to my car after work without being in extreme pain.

Don't be worried-being young sucks, I can attest to that.


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## bmf032 (Sep 8, 2010)

misterbill said:


> Not sure that I am in the catergory of being a roadie. I'm going to be 61 in Februrary-30 miles is a four hour ride for me. Plus I am already carrying an extra 20 lbs around with me(I've lost 25). Didn't know how out of shape I was until I got stronger. 6 miles was a long trip for me last year. I ran a farm until last year-not exactly a couch potatoe. Still, I was in a lot worse shape than I thought. I can actually walk to my car after work without being in extreme pain.
> 
> Don't be worried-being young sucks, I can attest to that.


Good for you! Keep it going.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

We all should be ready for the unexpected when out in nature. Yet, regardless, dumping on anyone because they weren't doesn't help the situation.

We are cyclists...

We have bigger issues to deal with then, ripping on each other. Who is who and what we ride, detracts from what we can achieve working together.


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