# Any current fs carbon bikes made not-in-china?



## r-mm (Jul 6, 2019)

I’m shopping for a new or close to it carbon full suspension XC/downcountry bike. 

There are some great companies in Canada (Norco) Switzerland (BMC) USA (Pivot, Santa Cruz) Germany (YT) whose FS carbon XC/downcountry bikes are on my short list. Where things are made does matter to me, but its not the be-all and I am realistic about the state of world manufacturing. Since all of the above do not readily disclose I am posting to ask if we think there is anything about the nominal nationality of the companies that makes a meaningful difference to the bikes in a physical sense. I do appreciate that a bike being “designed and tested” somewhere is not nothing. 

Happy 2023 all.


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## r-mm (Jul 6, 2019)

Since there’s a thread going on Steel FS bikes I suppose I should say - I’m open to alum and steel too! I currently ride and love an ole Ellsworth Truth.


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## Dirtzlan (10 mo ago)

The We Are One Arrival 152 is not only made in Kamloops BC, but most materials are locally sourced from within BC. Though it is more of a Trail Bike than Downcountry so not sure if that is what you are looking for.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Not only US made, but recyclable, and convertible to more travel if you wish.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

Ibis Exie is made in California.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Ibis Exie, Guerrilla Gravity.

Personally, I don't think building in NA is in itself going to lead to better quality. As far as carbon manufacturing, China and Taiwan have much more experience.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jeremy3220 said:


> Ibis Exie, Guerrilla Gravity.
> 
> Personally, I don't think building in NA is in itself going to lead to better quality. As far as carbon manufacturing, China and Taiwan have much more experience.


Taiwan has built up to a current reputation of producing very high quality and consistent CF products. China still seems to be a mixed bag.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

My Ripmo frame was made in Vietnam


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

The carbon fiber industry in China and Taiwan is a cost of labor decision in component assembly. The fiber, resin and overall carbon manufacturing and technology is almost exclusively western nations. The USA leads the world in both technology development and manufacturing of carbon materials followed by Japan and Germany. 

Taiwan has been more involved in technology development in recent years largely through Formosa Plastics. China is way behind in any form of fiber development technology.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Also, you have some brands that own and operate their own production facilities in SE Asia (Santa Cruz, Giant). Some brands design the frame then have a supplier in SE Asia build them frames. Some brands don't even design their frames and just pick a frame out of a catalog from a supplier.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Dirtzlan said:


> ... but most materials are locally sourced from within BC...


Except all the materials. It is enough to say the frame is molded in Canada, no need to add nonsense like that especially when it explicitly states their Japanese and American sourced materials on the page.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Imagine starting a thread asking for bikes specifically _not_ made in the US...


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Mudguard said:


> Imagine starting a thread asking for bikes specifically _not_ made in the US...


Imagine someone spending 5 minutes searching google to find a readily available answer. I am amazed at how lazy people can be.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Cleared2land said:


> The fiber, resin and overall carbon manufacturing and technology is almost exclusively western nations.


The bike factories in Asia aren't designing and building carbon fiber, they're building bikes out of carbon fiber right? I'm not sure I understand the connection.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

jeremy3220 said:


> Also, you have some brands that own and operate their own production facilities in SE Asia (Santa Cruz, Giant).


There are numerous others that operate their production from China or Taiwan that include Specialized, Cannondale, Trek and several European bike manufactures. Those are purely production facilities, not manufacturing. The materials and carbon technology did not originate there.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Cleared2land said:


> The carbon fiber industry in China and Taiwan is a cost of labor decision in component assembly. The fiber, resin and overall carbon manufacturing and technology is almost exclusively western nations. The USA leads the world in both technology development and manufacturing of carbon materials followed by Japan and Germany.
> 
> Taiwan has been more involved in technology development in recent years largely through Formosa Plastics. China is way behind in any form of fiber development technology.


The US does what now?


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

jeremy3220 said:


> Some brands don't even design their frames and just pick a frame out of a catalog from a supplier.


I've heard this, but I don't know of an example. Name names!


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

yzedf said:


> The US does what now?


Everything, always, number one.

He is partly right though. Carbon development and production is historically military and aerospace and the US has always had the largest needs.

HOWEVER for bikes, which account for near zero of the carbon industry, Toray (japan) covers almost the entire market. Trek being a notable exception along with some other smaller builders with niche suppliers (niche for bikes that is).


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Bikeventures said:


> I've heard this, but I don't know of an example. Name names!


Trek. I've seen frames on aliexpress that look identical.

Short of low end / house brand /direct sales chinese open mould frames, I don't know of any catalogue frames. I bet there are some though. Trouble is we (the public) have never seen the catalogues, so you'll never know unless 2 brands have picked the same one by fluke.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

There's zero chance Trek's high end bikes like Fuel EX or Top Fuel are catalog frames. Maybe their price point bikes sold in big shops, are from shared molds.


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## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Antidote Bikes, Ibis Exie, WEAREONE Arrival, Guerilla Gravity, Atherton.

Only carbon bike brands or models I can think of off the top of my head not made in China, Vietnam, ETC.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Bikeventures said:


> There's zero chance Trek's high end bikes like Fuel EX or Top Fuel are catalog frames. Maybe their price point bikes sold in big shops, are from shared molds.


Joke

^^^^^^^
---------

Your head.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

WhiteDLite said:


> Atherton.


I am curious about this one. They glue tubes to printed lugs. Could be made anywhere.

A little googling says they go their own printer to do lugs. Neat. $1m for that thing to print a few hundred sets a year, they must be doing alright


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

smashysmashy said:


> Joke
> 
> ^^^^^^^
> ---------
> ...


A joke about Trek's mundane frame designs! Sorry coffee has not kicked in yet.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Orbea are made in Spain.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

Curveball said:


> Orbea are made in Spain.


Assembled in Spain, but the frames are made in China.

From wiki

*Orbea* is a bicycle manufacturer based in Mallabia, Spain. It is part of the Mondragón Cooperative Corporation and Spain's largest bicycle manufacturer. Orbea manufactures and assembles bikes at their own factory in Mallabia, the other models being made in Portugal and *frameset are from China.**[1]*


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

I almost forgot the Allied BC40 made in Arkansas.

BC40 – Allied Cycle Works


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Bikeventures said:


> I've heard this, but I don't know of an example. Name names!


I'm not saying big name brands are doing this. I've heard rumors of brands like Diamondback doing it but the only brands I know for sure are smaller cheaper brands. There's a local bike shop for example that has their own brand of entry level hardtails.


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

There's also Unno. Alchemy also says many of their carbon frames are made in house, but I didn't see where they specify which ones.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Bikeventures said:


> Assembled in Spain, but the frames are made in China.
> 
> From wiki
> 
> *Orbea* is a bicycle manufacturer based in Mallabia, Spain. It is part of the Mondragón Cooperative Corporation and Spain's largest bicycle manufacturer. Orbea manufactures and assembles bikes at their own factory in Mallabia, the other models being made in Portugal and *frameset are from China.**[1]*


I'll have to dig deeper, but I read on NSMB that they recently started making their carbon frames in either Spain or Portugal. I'll see if I can verify that or not.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

WhiteDLite said:


> Antidote Bikes, Ibis Exie, WEAREONE Arrival, Guerilla Gravity, Atherton.
> 
> Only carbon bike brands or models I can think of off the top of my head not made in China, Vietnam, ETC.


Hope in UK.


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## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Taroroot said:


> Hope in UK.


Yes, and I saw someone mention Allied, which I love that Allied bike and didn't even think about it.


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## Lochnes (Apr 27, 2016)

Santa Cruz frames are for sure made in china, it even has a nice sticker “china” on the bottom of the downtube….
Generally, if they do not explicitely say its made in uk or usa etc its made in china..if the explicitely say “Designed in Usa” you for sure know it”s made in china…

Scott frameset is made in taiwan assembled in swiss
Pole is made in Finland, cool but weird bike
Antidote is made in Poland


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## B.A.K. (Dec 16, 2020)

Last-Bikes, made in Germany.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

dlxah said:


> There's also Unno. Alchemy also says many of their carbon frames are made in house, but I didn't see where they specify which ones.


A friend of mine has had two Alchemy's and visited their facility, their suspension frames are made in Asia.

I'm not looking at making my bikes from carbon in the foreseeable future. If I did, how much value do y'all place on US manufacturing?


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## Marty01 (Oct 2, 2010)

canadian brand Devinci has some bikes made right here in Canada.. i dont rememebr which ones.. and am even less sure their CF bikes make that short list.. but worth looking into


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## Marty01 (Oct 2, 2010)

Marty01 said:


> canadian brand Devinci has some bikes made right here in Canada.. i dont rememebr which ones.. and am even less sure their CF bikes make that short list.. but worth looking into


 my bad,, their made in Canada is limited to Alu framed bikes..


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## 67King (Apr 16, 2020)

As mentioned, Allied is made in Arkansas. Price reflects that, wish I could swing the cost. Giant pulled their production out of China a few years ago, I think when the tariffs started?, and did not send it back despite the huge uptick in demand in 2020. That is what I read a few years ago, anyway, I suppose it may have changed.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

How about Pivot or Evil? They’re not made in China. They are (as of a couple years ago anyway) made in Myanmar.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

67King said:


> As mentioned, Allied is made in Arkansas. Price reflects that, wish I could swing the cost. Giant pulled their production out of China a few years ago, I think when the tariffs started?, and did not send it back despite the huge uptick in demand in 2020. That is what I read a few years ago, anyway, I suppose it may have changed.


Last I heard (maybe 2015) all carbon and premium aluminum Giants were made in Taiwan.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

evasive said:


> How about Pivot or Evil? They’re not made in China. They are (as of a couple years ago anyway) made in Myanmar.



They come in somewhere between north korea and iran on the boycott list, way worse than china if the OP was basing this on say, human rights and not just partisan politics.

(not to derail this thread, delete if needed)


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

67King said:


> As mentioned, Allied is made in Arkansas. Price reflects that, wish I could swing the cost.


This is true, but it isn't as outrageous as it seems. The BC40 is is $4495 for a frame, but a Santa Cruz is currently charging $4000 for a Tallboy. So yes, more expensive, but not as bad as you might think compared to some of the more expensive non-US made bikes. 

Both make the Reeb SST look like a bargain at $3150 (without a shock.)


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Tim-ti said:


> Last I heard (maybe 2015) all carbon and premium aluminum Giants were made in Taiwan.


This one is tricky I think. They are migrating a lot to china for sure but there is also a lot of sharing production (cuttng and layups in one country, sent over to the other for moulding, etc), We now get into what is "made in"?


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## 67King (Apr 16, 2020)

xjbaylor said:


> This is true, but it isn't as outrageous as it seems. The BC40 is is $4495 for a frame, but a Santa Cruz is currently charging $4000 for a Tallboy. So yes, more expensive, but not as bad as you might think compared to some of the more expensive non-US made bikes.
> 
> Both make the Reeb SST look like a bargain at $3150 (without a shock.)


Yeah, but then Giant's Anthem is $3200. That's a 40% premium. I don't mind a 40% premium on a lot of things (all my hand tools (cars, not bikes) are made in either US or Germany, I was paying 2X as much for US Levis when you could still get them, etc.), but at this price point, that's a tough pill to swallow. Epic EVO S-WOrks frame is $3900. Those are all pretty close in weight (1720-1950g). Not sure about Tallboy, but the bike itself is pretty heavy, though we're comparing trail to XC, so not fully apples to apples. Trance X frame is $3300 if looking for Trail examples.

Norco Revolt is $3000 (but notably heavier - Tallboy is a lot heavier than the BC40 or Anthem, as well). Ibis Exie is only one in that ballpark.


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## 67King (Apr 16, 2020)

smashysmashy said:


> This one is tricky I think. They are migrating a lot to china for sure but there is also a lot of sharing production (cuttng and layups in one country, sent over to the other for moulding, etc), We now get into what is "made in"?


Yeah, I was off a bit. Found the article I recalled having read a few years ago. Definitely got crazy, and to your point, same bikes made in different countries (yes, I consider Taiwan sovereign), how do we say it is made in such and such location? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/business/giant-bikes-coronavirus-shortage.html


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

smashysmashy said:


> Trek. I've seen frames on aliexpress that look identical.
> 
> Short of low end / house brand /direct sales chinese open mould frames, I don't know of any catalogue frames. I bet there are some though. Trouble is we (the public) have never seen the catalogues, so you'll never know unless 2 brands have picked the same one by fluke.


I hate Trek, but you’ve got it backwards. Trek designs their frames in house. There are Chinese manufacturers that make knock off frames that looks similar to treks, Santa Cruz, specialized, etc. These companies aren’t buying catalogue frames. And if you contact some of the major manufacturers in Asia you can see some of the manuals/options to buy. It’s not a hidden secret.
Edit: just saw you were looking fun at treks terrible frames, lol the original comment didn’t read that way, my bad


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## fuzz_muffin (Dec 24, 2017)

Yes.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

megablue said:


> I hate Trek, but you’ve got it backwards. Trek designs their frames in house. There are Chinese manufacturers that make knock off frames that looks similar to treks, Santa Cruz, specialized, etc. These companies aren’t buying catalogue frames. And if you contact some of the major manufacturers in Asia you can see some of the manuals/options to buy. It’s not a hidden secret.
> Edit: just saw you were looking fun at treks terrible frames, lol the original comment didn’t read that way, my bad


Joke

^^^^
-----

your head.


(for anyone else with no humour detection, the joke is that many of the early open mould direct from china frames were near exact copies of treks as well as pinnarello with many people falsely believing these were where trek got their frames in the first place)


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

67King said:


> Yeah, but then Giant's Anthem is $3200. That's a 40% premium. I don't mind a 40% premium on a lot of things (all my hand tools (cars, not bikes) are made in either US or Germany, I was paying 2X as much for US Levis when you could still get them, etc.), but at this price point, that's a tough pill to swallow. Epic EVO S-WOrks frame is $3900. Those are all pretty close in weight (1720-1950g). Not sure about Tallboy, but the bike itself is pretty heavy, though we're comparing trail to XC, so not fully apples to apples. Trance X frame is $3300 if looking for Trail examples.
> 
> Norco Revolt is $3000 (but notably heavier - Tallboy is a lot heavier than the BC40 or Anthem, as well). Ibis Exie is only one in that ballpark.


I certainly wasn't trying to say Made in USA frames are a bargain, only that there are a lot of very popular bikes made overseas asking reasonably similar prices.


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## Psychoholic Racing (16 d ago)

KTM makes most of their own bikes in house in Austria. Their XC bikes are great.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Psychoholic Racing said:


> KTM makes most of their own bikes in house in Austria. Their XC bikes are great.


They very much do not. They import frames and paint and finished them in austria (same as orbea does). They do this to avoid tarriffs.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's so cute all the people that think their favorite company doesn't make their frames in China or the Far East...


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## 67King (Apr 16, 2020)

xjbaylor said:


> I certainly wasn't trying to say Made in USA frames are a bargain, only that there are a lot of very popular bikes made overseas asking reasonably similar prices.


Ah. Yeah, gotcha. And you are absolutely correct!


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## NorCalTaz (Nov 12, 2013)

Saw YouTube of a Asian Bike Trade show, sorry I don't remember what country, but there was a sh*tload of folks out marketing carbon frames from companies I have never heard of. Makes me wonder a bit as since there were so many, some of them must have been worth taking a second look into.


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## resination (May 11, 2021)

evasive said:


> How about Pivot or Evil? They’re not made in China. They are (as of a couple years ago anyway) made in Myanmar.


Google tells me Pivot frames are manufactured in Taiwan with US made tooling while Evil frames are manufactured in "Asia."


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Check out Unno bikes. A little boutique company making their bikes in Spain.


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

smashysmashy said:


> Joke
> 
> ^^^^
> -----
> ...


I edited my reply hours before you answered. No need to be an a**hole about it. Can’t read sarcasm over text on the internet.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Psychoholic Racing said:


> KTM makes most of their own bikes in house in Austria. Their XC bikes are great.





smashysmashy said:


> They very much do not. They import frames and paint and finished them in austria (same as orbea does). They do this to avoid tarriffs.


Taiwan built frames.


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## Flegmpst (5 mo ago)

I don't know if it's the best place for bikes, but they make the best breast milk.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Pyga, made in South Africa.



https://us.pygaindustries.com/?v=b0c4bc877c29


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Jayem said:


> It's so cute all the people that think their favorite company doesn't make their frames in China or the Far East...


For my Orbea, it's not particularly clear just where it's made. It seems likely to be Asia, but just where? It's not very easy information to find.


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Curveball said:


> For my Orbea, it's not particularly clear just where it's made. It seems likely to be Asia, but just where? It's not very easy information to find.


I’m not sure what year, but orbea shut down their china facility. They only manufacture in Spain and Portugal now. Spain is their mid to high end bikes, Portugal is for low to mid end bikes.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

megablue said:


> I’m not sure what year, but orbea shut down their china facility. They only manufacture in Spain and Portugal now. Spain is their mid to high end bikes, Portugal is for low to mid end bikes.


That's what I read, but I can't seem to find the verification of that. Do you have any documentation on that? I'd greatly appreciate it.


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Curveball said:


> That's what I read, but I can't seem to find the verification of that. Do you have any documentation on that? I'd greatly appreciate it.











The Industrial Art - Orbea stories


Entretenimiento e información útil en torno a nuestra marca y a la afición que nos une: el ciclismo.




stories.orbea.com




This was 7 years ago. But I don’t see them sighting their Chinese factory down, moving production, and then reopening their Chinese plant down the road.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

megablue said:


> The Industrial Art - Orbea stories
> 
> 
> Entretenimiento e información útil en torno a nuestra marca y a la afición que nos une: el ciclismo.
> ...


Cool, thanks! I tried searching their site, but I'm having very slow internet at work and it wasn't happening. I appreciate your efforts.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Jayem said:


> It's so cute all the people that think their favorite company doesn't make their frames in China or the Far East...


I like that I can ride or crack a beer with the people who build my frames.


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## stevenmgirard (Oct 25, 2021)

I'd highly recommend the Guerrilla Gravity Pistola. 

Made in Colorado, excellent customer support, great community (active FB group), and my lord it's a fun bike. 

IMO the DVO Topaz is a perfect match for it, but I also know an XC racer guy who runs his with a coil and swears by it.


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

stevenmgirard said:


> I'd highly recommend the Guerrilla Gravity Pistola.
> 
> Made in Colorado, excellent customer support, great community (active FB group), and my lord it's a fun bike.
> 
> IMO the DVO Topaz is a perfect match for it, but I also know an XC racer guy who runs his with a coil and swears by it.


I second GG. I’ve been loving my smash. Even with coil front and rear it pedals very well.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Curveball said:


> Cool, thanks! I tried searching their site, but I'm having very slow internet at work and it wasn't happening. I appreciate your efforts.


Should note nowhere in that article does it say they now manufacture their carbon frames in house. They mention assembly and painting etc. It is the same as KTM, they bring in the raw carbon frames and then finish them there. They do not actually lay up and mould carbon frames in spain.

You have to watch companies for language like this. They are following the letter of the law for "made in" labelling, but not the spirit of what customers actually expect.


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

smashysmashy said:


> Should note nowhere in that article does it say they now manufacture their carbon frames in house. They mention assembly and painting etc. It is the same as KTM, they bring in the raw carbon frames and then finish them there. They do not actually lay up and mould carbon frames in span.
> 
> You have to watch companies for language like this. They are following the letter of the law for "made in" labelling, but not the spirit of what customers actually expect.


“We have two manufacturing facilities. The main plant is in *Mallabia*, focusing on mid-to-high-range products for the European and American markets. And the other facility is in *Portugal*, where we produce low-to-mid-range products under an intensive production system.”
Direct quote from the article. Manufacturing and production are the exact words used, not “assembled”. They even discuss later in the article why they closed their China manufacturing plant and moved everything into Europe.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

megablue said:


> “We have two manufacturing facilities. The main plant is in *Mallabia*, focusing on mid-to-high-range products for the European and American markets. And the other facility is in *Portugal*, where we produce low-to-mid-range products under an intensive production system.”
> Direct quote from the article. Manufacturing and production are the exact words used, not “assembled”. They even discuss later in the article why they closed their China manufacturing plant and moved everything into Europe.


That refers to aluminium frames not carbon. They DO NOT manufacture carbon frames in spain or portugal. Their factory tour starts with the paint shop. That should be your first hint.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

megablue said:


> “We have two manufacturing facilities. The main plant is in *Mallabia*, focusing on mid-to-high-range products for the European and American markets. And the other facility is in *Portugal*, where we produce low-to-mid-range products under an intensive production system.”
> Direct quote from the article. Manufacturing and production are the exact words used, not “assembled”. They even discuss later in the article why they closed their China manufacturing plant and moved everything into Europe.


Cite your quotes


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> Cite your quotes


It is in the article linked above. but as i said, it does not mention carbon, and is vague about what "manufacturing" goes on besides painting and assembly - it goes out of its way to talk up assembly being a big deal.

There was a tour not long ago (gcn?) that showed it a little more clearly on the carbon side "frames come and get prepared for paint" is basically how it starts. Likewise with KTM, their distributor in the UK talked about how with brexit and such, KTM painting frames in house reduces tariffs. They are basically getting away with calling an unpainted carbon frame a "raw material" and once painted and assembled up (with Chinese and Malaysian and Japanese parts) it is "made in austria". Might skirt the laws, but this is not what people like the OP are looking for. In Canada I think you'd still legally have to say "built in".


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

smashysmashy said:


> It is in the article linked above.


I know where it came from, but in a technical based thread, if you are going to quote something or someone, cite where it came from.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> I know where it came from, but in a technical based thread, if you are going to quote something or someone, cite where it came from.


This Isn't a technical based thread, its a stream of "mah byke wuz made local... if you don't count the bike part".


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I repaired my Chinese CF fat frame I accidentally hit with a hammer. So it's US made.


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## Nomad Ninja (Sep 2, 2007)

How much is OP willing to spend your next bike?


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

If a company is manufacturing their frames "in house", they're going to make damn sure that you know it.
If you need to dig around to find out where they were made; they were made in Asia.


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## r-mm (Jul 6, 2019)

Pyga and Unno are both incredible looking!


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## r-mm (Jul 6, 2019)

Nomad Ninja said:


> How much is OP willing to spend your next bike?


Yeah good question I don't really know. I kept my Ellsworth for 15 years of great riding and I was always proud of it as an object for its aesthetics and what it represented. So perhaps I'd stretch from the ~4k i was planning to spend on a used (Blur/Pivot/Spur/Revolver) and buy a very cool frameset and built it up...


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## r-mm (Jul 6, 2019)

stevenmgirard said:


> Guerrilla Gravity Pistola.


This looks great thanks! Trail Pistol - Ride Build


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## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

r-mm said:


> This looks great thanks! Trail Pistol - Ride Build


I have the smash right now. Super fun bike. And I like that with a quick seat stay swap (and removing a travel spacer from my shock) I can go to a gnarvana with ease for bike park days. I’ve had a ton of conversations with the guys and gals at GG and they have always been helpful. I stripped an insert one the cable door the first day I had my frame, they said to take it to a shop and have them use a tap to get the threads back and they would repay me whatever the shop charged. Even though it was my fault for being ham fisted and not taking my time, they offered to cover the fix out of their pocket.


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## Nomad Ninja (Sep 2, 2007)

you’ll be stoked on any of those bikes



r-mm said:


> Yeah good question I don't really know. I kept my Ellsworth for 15 years of great riding and I was always proud of it as an object for its aesthetics and what it represented. So perhaps I'd stretch from the ~4k i was planning to spend on a used (Blur/Pivot/Spur/Revolver) and buy a very cool frameset and built it up...


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

Intense, Taiwan i believe. Many companies advertise headquarters in the USA. But few make any frames here.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

GoldenKnightMTB said:


> Intense, Taiwan i believe. Many companies advertise headquarters in the USA. But few make any frames here.


There are tons in taiwan, but its kinda hard to find out which sometimes.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Antidote Bikes, (Poland)
Ibis Exie, (California)
WEAREONE Arrival, (Canada)
Guerilla Gravity, (Colorado)
Atherton. (UK)
Appleman (USA custom) 
Allied (Arkansas)
Unno (Spain)
Pyga (South Africa)
Last (Germany)


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

REVEL BIKES ARE NOT MADE IN USA. REPEAT *NOT MADE IN USA*.

They are manufactured in Vietnam. 

Ive heard quite a few people claim they were USA made, or who even bought the bikes before learning they weren't. Much of this has to do with the Fusion Fiber Rims which adds confusion to the marketing.


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## smashysmashy (Oct 18, 2013)

I think when most people talk about where they "bike" is made, they mean the frame. But the frame is not actually a big part of the overall bike, so a chinese frame with all Hope parts could get called "made in uk" legally as the sum of it's parts is mostly made in uk. So this throws another wrench into figuring out the marketting.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

In USA, the FTC standard for claiming domestic manufacture "made in USA", and import manufacture e.g. "made in China","made in Spain", etc are different. It's kinda murky*, so I'm only paraphrasing below:

When selling *domestically in USA*, I can claim "Made in USA" for my frames, which I manufacture here.

If I assemble a complete bike for *domestic sale in the US*, using my made-in-USA frame with foreign sourced components (Shimano, Sram, Fox, etc...) I claim "Assembled in USA from foreign and domestic parts". The frame in this context is a component.

If I assembled a bike in US using a foriegn frame for *domestic sale in USA*, I'd claim "Assembled in USA". This is how US assembled cars are labelled.


For any *export*, whether it's my made-in-USA frame, or a complete bike with a foreign made frame, I must export with the claim "Made in USA". Here, the country refers to the place where the last substantial transformation (i.e. assembly) took place, regardless of where the frame or components were manufactured.

Similarly, if I *import* a completely assembled bike it might say "Made in China", "Made in Spain". The country again refers to the place where the last substantial transformation (i.e. assembly) took place, regardless of where the frame or components were made.

You can see how buyers outside of the US might incorrectly infer that bikes which are assembled in USA have US manufactured frames, or how buyers in US might incorrectly infer that bikes assembled in Spain have Spanish made frames. Taking advantage of these lingustic loopholes is a consideration for some brands, it might also be a reason for them to not offer frame-only options.

*Fine print: There's a lot more to it than this, context is everything, this isn't legal advice, I might be wrong, but I don't think I am.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

rideit said:


> Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol. Not only US made, but recyclable, and convertible to more travel if you wish.


Yep this. And they are priced very well compared to other carbon frames.

Anything you don't have to get shipped across the ocean is a definite bonus.

I've only had my GG for less than a year, but it's my favorite bike in the past 20 years 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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