# $500 first bike budget...Motobecane?



## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Looking at getting my first bike and I'm getting kinda impatient. I've gone to my local store and they recommended the Giant ATK 2, but it looked very basic to me for the price. I need a 17" frame size as I'm only 5'8 and I'm interested in street and trail riding. The Motobecane bikes seemed very interesting to me price wise, and I'm good with tools so setting it up and tuning it shouldn't be hard at all, I'm just having trouble comparing components between the Giant ATK 2 and the Motobecane offerings. What do you guys think you would do on a $500 budget?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Which Motobecane?


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## Rhodyman (Aug 7, 2015)

cormega said:


> Looking at getting my first bike and I'm getting kinda impatient. I've gone to my local store and they recommended the Giant ATK 2, but it looked very basic to me for the price. I need a 17" frame size as I'm only 5'8 and I'm interested in street and trail riding. The Motobecane bikes seemed very interesting to me price wise, and I'm good with tools so setting it up and tuning it shouldn't be hard at all, I'm just having trouble comparing components between the Giant ATK 2 and the Motobecane offerings. What do you guys think you would do on a $500 budget?


Have you checked out the local used market? A few years ago, I picked up a like new Giant Talon 29er for $320. I know it's hit & miss at times, but check CL, pinkbike, Facebook Marketplace, let go app, etc. Also see if your local mtb chapter has a Facebook page. If so, you can post what you're looking for there. Good luck!


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

If I could fit on a medium, I'd look at used, especially if my budget was that tight. $500 won't buy you anything worth even looking at if we're talking about new. I'd try to burn all $500 on a bike that was $12-1500 new.

I put off mountain biking for years because I didn't want to spend the money on a good bike. Even though I missed out on years of mountain biking, I have no regrets about that; a crappy bike would absolutely destroy my enjoyment of riding.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

You might check out the bikes on sale at REI. IMO, they have similar value (dollar for dollar) compared to BikesDirect, with the advantage of a real test ride before purchasing, a fairly liberal return policy, and you're not choosing based on comparing on-screen images. Even if the model you find you like isn't in your price range, you can search the REI-Outlet for the previous year's model of the same kind. If it's in your size, the price might be significantly lower.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Wow I appreciate the quick responses guys. I am not a hardcore rider, but I want to be able to take on some decent trails if I decide to. That being said the Motobecane I was looking at was this one here...

Save up to 60% off Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 400HT

This one here...

Save Up to 60% Off 27.5 / 650B Mountain Bikes Up to 60% Off - MTB - Motobecane 527HT

And after contacting Bikesdirect themselves they actually recommended this Gravity bike saying it was actually an upgrade over the $500 Giant ATK 2 I was recommended locally.

Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Front Suspension Gravity Basecamp 1.0

So those are my top choices as of now. Of course the used market is interesting, craigslist has proven to be a good laugh with tons of ten year old rusted bikes selling around $250-300, and I find it pretty hard to actually find a good condition used bike on there. I live in New York so we have a solid marketplace for used bikes I just haven't been able to find one that is "like new" for a decent price.

I have REI near me so I will definitely check them out, didn't know they sold bikes to be honest.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

All of those bikes are about a half step above a Walmart bike. If that. $500 doesn't go far in regards to new bikes honestly. If you were to limit your self to tooling around town, groomed paths and very mellow smooth trails...maybe. I'd be patient, watch for used, and in the mean time save up some more money. If you can get together $800-1000 that will definitely open up a lot more options including some new stuff that's actually worth riding.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

cormega said:


> ... I've gone to my local store and they recommended the Giant ATK 2, but it looked very basic to me for the price. ...


Everyone has pretty much nailed it in this thread. Like it or not, $500 these days gets you an entry level bike, and yes, it will be on the basic side. Should be fine for you, but that's what you'll find for the money.

I'd agree that used can be great. You can also search Pinkbike.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

If you don't know, the Bikesdirect bikes are all their own brands. Some, like Motobecane, were independent brands that Bikedirect bought the rights to after the brand went bankrupt or ended for some other reason. Bikesdirect bikes often have good value for the parts you get for the money. Their frames are not anything to get excited about, though. But I can't say I'm very impressed with the parts on the Gravity Basecamp. 

And it looks like they are pressuring visitors to their site to buy now and they'll charge your credit card immediately, and then it will ship sometime between July 20th and August 3rd and take a week to get to you. I imagine they are collecting money to fund an order from China for the frames.

REI has the Cannondale Catalyst 2 on sale for $549. Spec looks pretty similar but maybe a little better. You'd be able to test ride it and get support from the store and take it home immediately, assuming they have your size. And when you're ready to upgrade, the resell would be higher. They have a Catalyst 1 for less. Sorry, I have to run, I'll look at it later.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

For a beginner, buying from a local brick and mortar retailer is worth paying more for the bike. Most bike shops properly assemble and tune a bike, let you test ride it, help you fit the bike, and offer some sort of complimentary service labor with the purchase. If you buy online, you're on your own.

REI has a pretty solid price and usually employs good mechanics (I used to be one of them), and they mark down the price of bikes a LOT after they have been in the store for a few months.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Ok, REI has the Catalyst 4 for less, not the 1 as I said above. But the specs on it really drop, down to Tourney level, which to me is getting down to Walmart level. 

The Catalyst 2 has Shimano hydro brakes; the BD Gravity has Tektro mechanicals. By the length of the stem that comes with the Gravity, 90-110 and a 620 handlebar, they look to be way behind the times. The Cannondale has a 700mm bar, doesn't list stem length but looks to be less than 90mm.
So the Cannondale costs more than the Gravity but I think it is a lot better bike, plus test rideable and REI will give you a free tuneup after break-in. But it is still $50 over budget so it depends how strict that is, plus you need money for a helmet, water bottle, etc.

I'm not liking either of those other BD bikes any better. "Kenda Blackwall 26x1.95 OR 2.1 (cannot choose)", so in other words, whatever we have laying around. 1.95 tires are about 15 years or so behind the times.

Looking at the specs on the Giant, I like the Catalyst 2 better.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

Used. If you are actually interested in getting into serious riding the one and only option at that budget is used. I would highly recommend against any new bike for $500.

The key to buying used is patience, there might not be anything for sale for you today but there will be something eventually, just have to check every day. $500 can get a really high quality older bike with good parts that will be capable and reliable.

If you dont want to get bogged down with researching every used bike then searching for Trek and Specialized will help, they are the 2 biggest higher quality brands and should have a lot of used options at good prices.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Agreed. A $500 bike new is a $200 bike 1 year later.

Go get sized. It's pointless to get a bike in the wrong size. Look on craigslist. Should be plenty of options. Post the link here is you find something you like & I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Third-ed. Get a used bike. If you want a casual dirt path cruiser that will gather dust in the garages 364 days a year, a sub-$500 new bike is fine. If you want to acually ride trails at anything more than a bimbling pace, that's not going to cut it for long. you can get a lot more bike in the used market.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

If you're up for it, I do agree that used is the better way to go. I'm looking for a "cheap" bike for my 16 year old son and just looking at used. I'm just not too sure how much he'll ride it. He used to occasionally ride with me on one of my bikes but now he's too tall and he's never been all that interested in riding. I did get him a really nice used road bike for Christmas as he seems to like road (actually pathway) riding better plus he rides to his lifeguard job during the summer.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

chazpat said:


> Ok, REI has the Catalyst 4 for less, not the 1 as I said above. But the specs on it really drop, down to Tourney level, which to me is getting down to Walmart level.


A spring fork = walmart level, regardless of whatever else is bolted to the bike. Don't kid yourself--bikes at this price point are total junk.

A good set of tires costs $150 and a good fork costs $5-900 retail. You can't buy a complete bike for $500 and expect anything other than junk.


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

If you absolutely want to buy new, this is going to be your best bet, hands down:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-17-Fu...033181&hash=item4d6ba7d2b6:g:HmoAAOSw1zhaWR0X

The fork leaves something to be desired, but the components are going to be the best you will find at your pricepoint. Also check out similar items from the same seller - they have a lot of very good deals.

The main drawback with this option is whether or not the 17" frame size will work for you, mainly because at your height, you are on the border between a 17" and a 19", and I think all they have in this model is the 17". Its possible that the 17" may feel too small.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

getagrip said:


> If you absolutely want to buy new, this is going to be your best bet, hands down:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-17-Fu...033181&hash=item4d6ba7d2b6:g:HmoAAOSw1zhaWR0X
> 
> The fork leaves something to be desired, but the components are going to be the best you will find at your pricepoint. Also check out similar items from the same seller - they have a lot of very good deals.


Not sure I can recommend this. First off, investing in a 26" bike is sinking that cash (like it or not), and I'd have no idea what he's supposed to do for warranty. Also he may have to pay for assembly if not a confident installer.

I also find this quote from the seller interesting, and maybe indicative of warranty claims in general from them:

"We will not warranty plastic pieces on the bike. Plastic is generally considered a mildly fragile material, and we do not have replacements should you need them. The bike comes with plastic pieces: Most everyone will receive intact, the aforementioned pieces, but if you happen to receive ones broken during shipping, they're missing, or you break them, we will not be responsible for obtaining/replacing them. As a proper mindset, assume they're not meant to be included."


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Think you all have been had by a spammmer.


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

phlegm said:


> Not sure I can recommend this. First off, investing in a 26" bike is sinking that cash (like it or not), and I'd have no idea what he's supposed to do for warranty. Also he may have to pay for assembly if not a confident installer.
> 
> I also find this quote from the seller interesting, and maybe indicative of warranty claims in general from them:
> 
> "We will not warranty plastic pieces on the bike. Plastic is generally considered a mildly fragile material, and we do not have replacements should you need them. The bike comes with plastic pieces: Most everyone will receive intact, the aforementioned pieces, but if you happen to receive ones broken during shipping, they're missing, or you break them, we will not be responsible for obtaining/replacing them. As a proper mindset, assume they're not meant to be included."


That is a little strange with the warranty. As far as building the bike, its not hard to do, and I'm sure there is a community bike shop someplace near by that can help make adjustments and fine tune everything once the bike is built. If not, a bike store might charge $30 to $50 for the same service. With regard to the 26" wheel size, while its not the most up to date technology, that's the wheel size that worked well for many years for most people that have ever ridden a mountain bike, and 26ers are still fun to ride. Some people will say that they prefer 26ers over 29ers and 650B. Ultimately, its a matter of preference.


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

LargeMan said:


> Think you all have been had by a spammmer.


That's just dumb. By the way, you misspelled spammer.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

twodownzero said:


> A spring fork = walmart level, regardless of whatever else is bolted to the bike. Don't kid yourself--bikes at this price point are total junk.
> 
> A good set of tires costs $150 and a good fork costs $5-900 retail. You can't buy a complete bike for $500 and expect anything other than junk.


Most people start on less expensive bikes and he said his budget is $500. Maybe he can increase that, maybe he can't. If it comes down to having a bike or not having a bike, he's better off having a bike. For $500 it's not going to be bombing down anything major but it should get him started. And there are plenty of excellent XC tires for less than $150 for a pair as well as forks for less than $500-$900.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

I think the general consensus is you can find a higher quality bike used for $500 compaired to new.....

Case in point.

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/bik/d/trek-fuel-98/6605915931.html

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/bik/d/mountain-bike-commuter-bike/6627660658.html

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/excellent-beginner-mountain/6608707104.html


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

getagrip said:


> ...With regard to the 26" wheel size, while its not the most up to date technology, that's the wheel size that worked well for many years for most people that have ever ridden a mountain bike, and 26ers are still fun to ride. Some people will say that they prefer 26ers over 29ers and 650B. Ultimately, its a matter of preference.


I completely agree. Road them for years, and they were fine. However, the market has chosen, and demand for 26" bikes has waned significantly. They'll depreciate at an even higher rate than other bikes, and they are tougher to sell. Lots of used 26ers out there - good ones too.

Now I don't think depreciation should be a factor on a sub-$500 bike, but nonetheless that cash is near-sunk.

That warranty still bugs me. Sure, what's plastic on the bike? Reflector? Pie plate? No biggie, but a broken shifter housing would suck.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Wow, thanks for all the great feedback. I was under the impression that the components used on the BikesDirect bikes such as Shimano, Suntour, and Sram are what made their bikes great. And from what I read they use the same factory as Trek for frames which made it a no brainer for me. 

Anyway, I'm a motorcyclist to give you guys a bit of backround on me. I do all the maintenance myself, so working on a bicycle or assembling one doesn't intimidate me. What worries me on buying a used bike is however working on the gears if things don't shift properly etc... That aspect of it I have no experience with and being able to check out a used bike and know it's mechanically sound. 

I appreciate all the feedback, that craigslist link for the Cannondale 29er Alloy 3 actually looks great. I've contacted that guy and waiting on a response, but that's another problem for me. Searching craigslist for individual bikes I know very little about. 

What should I know about looking at used bike, specifically that Cannondale?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

cormega said:


> Wow, thanks for all the great feedback. I was under the impression that the components used on the BikesDirect bikes such as Shimano, Suntour, and Sram are what made their bikes great. And from what I read they use the same factory as Trek for frames which made it a no brainer for me.
> 
> Anyway, I'm a motorcyclist to give you guys a bit of backround on me. I do all the maintenance myself, so working on a bicycle or assembling one doesn't intimidate me. What worries me on buying a used bike is however working on the gears if things don't shift properly etc... That aspect of it I have no experience with and being able to check out a used bike and know it's mechanically sound.
> 
> ...


Their higher priced bikes aren't bad and have pretty good value for the money. The low priced stuff is just low priced stuff.

Again...I'd suggest trying to save up some more money and check out something like a DiamondBack through the corporate discount program. You need a code...there's some floating around. But you can get something like a Sync'r for $850 with the discount. Maybe less if you can score a 5% or 10% off code. And use Active Junky or Ebates for additional cash back. You should be able to get that bike for less than $800 shipped to your door no problem and it will be light years above anything from bikes direct for the price or anything from a bike shop for the same price.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

On used bikes ALWAYS look for cracks. I'll use my cellphone flash light to get a good look at all the welds. That's usually where they start. I don't find em often though. 

On that cannondale, make sure everything shifts properly. Make sure the brakes function well (they should, those are awesome brakes) If the shifting is a bit off it's an easy barrel adjust (screw in if slow going to smaller gears, screw out if slow going to larger gears)normally. If the bike has been ridden extensively you may want to replace the chain if you plan on riding it a lot. Chances are it's due. If it's overdue the new chain will let you know, it'll skip or stick to the gears which sucks literally and figuratively. 

Look at the fork seals for obvious signs of leakage.

If shifting is off, leaking forks, funky brakes talk the guy down. It's all usually very simple to fix if you've done it before. But a bit of a headache the 1st time. If you can work on motorcycles you can work on bikes, that'll save you a lot of $$. Just remember to not over tighten.

***Make sure the bike is the correct size for your height*** This is really important and often overlooked by buyers and bike shop employees who just want to sell bikes.

And finally.... if you really like that bike get some better pedals. Small pedals like the ones on it are a fun wrecker imho.

Good luck!


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

$500 bikes are pretty much the same everywhere. If you are just starting out on singletrack, they'll get the job done, more or less, and let you figure out what things you want/don't care about on your next bike. If you push it real hard downhilling or in rough stuff, you might break something. But the frequent deprecation that they are not suitable for the trail at all is BS: they're a lot more suitable than anything else for similar money (you will break a road bike on singletrack, same with a "hybrid" or similar). Good luck finding a $500 gravel bike.

Once you get over $1000, the selection of bikes is absolutely bewildering and having a little bit of riding experience will help sort what you want from what you don't.

If you can find something gently used for $500, that is probably a better way to go, but there may be fit and maintenance issues.

But unless you get extremely lucky in the used market, you are probably going to want to upgrade in a few years, either way.

Especially if you aren't even sure whether you like MTB and will want to continue with it, the cheap, entry level bike isn't a wrong way to go.

A better way, if you have the budget, is to go to a local shop, and get fitted right on something in the lower price range, but not economy. You still may want to change some stuff on it, but it is more likely to be upgradeable than a cheap new or older used bike.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Just got back from REI and had a really good experience. I really liked the Co-op Cycles DRT 1.2 Bike. The remote lockout feature is pretty nice. As a motorcycle rider I was shocked the front brake lever is on the left side and not the other way around. Simple switch I assume for personal preference no? Anyway I don't know if I'd spend $880 on that particular bike. It fit very well though, and was lighter then I imagined it would be.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

The problems with the sub-$1000 bikes are pretty much all the same. Coil spring forks, which just aren't as good (comfortable) as an air fork; straight headsets, so it's hard to upgrade to a better fork, which are all mostly tapered; and quick-release hubs, which aren't very strong or stiff, and limit wheel upgrades.

Secondarily, the brakes may be lower end and the derailleurs are lower end and 2x or 3x, whereas 1x is just a really nice thing (there is a lot of overlap in ratios among the 21-30 gear combos in a 3x and the derailleur set up requires more chain length, which leads to chain slap and inaccurate shifting and more easily thrown chain). Also, front derailleurs are fiddly and just, well, suck. You might think it not that big a deal to drop the front der and convert to 1x, but the jumbo rear cassettes require extra spacing between the dropouts, etc. 

Long story short, the cheaper bikes don't "obey" some of the more modern standards employed on more expensive bikes. Compliance with the standard may not be that big a deal, functionally, but it limits the ability to upgrade things.

The remote lockout is kind of meh. Generally, you want to lock out your fork on the road, but rarely if ever on the trail. It's not that big a deal to stop, reach down, and twist the switch on your fork. Not worth paying extra for, imo.

That REI bike has a low end air fork (I think?), but I think a straight headset, and it does have through axles, so that's nice. Eliminates a lot of the problems with the $500 bikes. Derailleurs and brakes are serviceable. Not too bad, really.

Left front brake is pretty standard in the US. The only issue in switching is whether the cable is long enough to switch, but you'll have to release it to do so.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

cormega said:


> As a motorcycle rider I was shocked the front brake lever is on the left side and not the other way around.


that is how 99.99% of bikes in the US are set up. as I understand it, riders in Europe are more likely to be used to riding motorbikes too, so European bikes are commonly set up "moto style." you can have them switched it but, depending on the specific brake model, that may involve a bleed, which the shop should be equipped to handle. some people have other theories about what works better, but it's really just personal preference.

That DRT 1.2 is a heckuva lot of bike for $800.

if you only plan to spend $500 on a new bike now, I can guarantee that you'll spend another $1500 or more on a new bike in a year or so. it's actually a lousy investment to buy a cheap, entry-level glorified path bike because your skills and interest in riding trails is going to rapidly outgrow the bike's capabilities.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

I bought a $500 bike. I rode it for four years before upgrading. Nothing broke on it, except a derailleur hanger. I wished for a better fork real quick, though. And then lighter wheels. And I learned that higher end derailleurs might have made my 3x set up a bit smoother, but I rarely get out of the middle ring, anyway.

I wasn't sure I would stick with the hobby though, or what style of riding I would do. Ultimately, I don't do that much hardcore downhill or rough stuff, partly because there isn't that much of it where I live. I do like to ride flowy singletrack in the woods, though, with a a few descents, climbs, rock gardens, and drops here and there.

I upgraded to a lower-midrange full suspension, just because the coil fork hardtail was fatiguing my old bod with vibration. It does make some of what I ride easier and certainly a bit more comfortable, and therefore maintains my interest.

If you are a former bmx'er or motocross rider that lives where there's a lot of rocks and up and down, a $500 bike is less likely to suit you as long as it did me. Also, $500 doesn't buy quite as much today as it did four years ago.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Since you're getting up in money you should consider 29 wheel size or 27.5+ and forget 26(except a fat bike) or 27.5. You get better rollover and on road a 29 is the same size as a standard 700c road bike wheel.
And forget the lockout- zero in on the internals of the fork. A single spring and plastic bushings with no adjustable rebound damping that Suntour 'X' fork is designed for bike paths and smooth trails not mt biking offroad. A fork lockout doesn't get used until you're a high level racer in most cases. 
A Giant 2018 Fathom 29 2 has a Suntour Raidon air fork you can ride on trails. $1070 list but the 2019 is out now so *offer cash* of 850+tax out the door. Talk to a manager only. Sales guys are trained to just say 'no way'. Call shops until you find a manager who'll work with you to get a deal done.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/fathom-29-2

https://www.performancebike.com/sho...2-mountain-bike-performance-exclusive-31-7055
This in a 29 has a good Rockshox Recon Silver air fork. Performance bike shops are a bit of a hike in your area but doable. $800.

Nukeproof Scout 290 Sport Bike 2018 | Chain Reaction Cycles
If you can wait for restock this has Boost(current hub standard) spacing and room for 27.5+ and 29 wheels and an air fork.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

I'm an impatient man, and bought the Fuji Nevada 1.3 linked on here for $399. I realize it's a 17", and checked out the bike's geometry and compared it with that of the bike of REI that I took for a test drive. They are very close, and honestly for the money I think it was a great deal. On top of that it's only 29lbs which is a bit lighter than the bike I tested, and has some solid components as far as I can tell.

I know it's only a 10 speed, and the wheels are only 26", but that's just something I'll get used to as it is my first bike. I have to start somewhere, and the used market is pretty iffy. So thanks for all the help, hopefully I can post some pictures soon.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

eb1888 said:


> Nukeproof Scout 290 Sport Bike 2018 | Chain Reaction Cycles
> If you can wait for restock this has Boost(current hub standard) spacing and room for 27.5+ and 29 wheels and an air fork.


I chatted with Nukeproof because I wanted a Scout and they told me no more bikes until 2019. All 2018's where sold out so what's in stores is all there will be.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Hey, at least you'll get out there, and you haven't risked much cash.

26" wheels were great for us, and there are still parts of my local trail where I remember how much easier a given tight turn was in the "old days".  Enjoy!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

cormega said:


> I'm an impatient man, and bought the Fuji Nevada 1.3 linked on here for $399.


Good luck.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nubster said:


> Good luck.


Reminds me of something:


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

cormega said:


> I'm an impatient man, and bought the Fuji Nevada 1.3 linked on here for $399. I realize it's a 17", and checked out the bike's geometry and compared it with that of the bike of REI that I took for a test drive. They are very close, and honestly for the money I think it was a great deal. On top of that it's only 29lbs which is a bit lighter than the bike I tested, and has some solid components as far as I can tell.
> 
> I know it's only a 10 speed, and the wheels are only 26", but that's just something I'll get used to as it is my first bike. I have to start somewhere, and the used market is pretty iffy. So thanks for all the help, hopefully I can post some pictures soon.


Cool. Now go ride!


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Any accessories I should look into? A softer seat perhaps? Speedometer? The Cat Eye Velo 7 looks handy.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Just ride. You can't tell much about saddles (soft, hard) just from looking at or reading about them. Fit to you is more important than anything. The cheapish WTB saddle on my cheap bike fits me like a glove.

I don't think you should have much time to look at a computer while riding trails. You should probably carry your phone, though, in case you get in trouble, and you can use the Strava app or OpenGPSTracker to keep track of your speeds and distances if it matters to you.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Helmet!

Some type of hydration system, I like a Camelbak, some like a water bottle.
I quit putting bike computers (speedometer, odometer, etc) on my mountain bikes a long time ago. I just use a tracking app on my phone. But a computer is more accurate.
I like cheap, narrow saddles. My road bikes have $8 Chinese plastic web saddles.

Ten things you should carry on every mountain bike ride - Mtbr.com

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/what-spares-tools-do-you-carry-977890.html


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

cormega said:


> Any accessories I should look into? A softer seat perhaps? Speedometer? The Cat Eye Velo 7 looks handy.


Bike shorts with a padded liner (chamois) can take the edge off. Also that default saddle may or not be comfortable for you - it takes some time to find the perfect one sometimes.


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## NigelMTB (Oct 4, 2017)

phlegm said:


> Bike shorts with a padded liner (chamois) can take the edge off. Also that default saddle may or not be comfortable for you - it takes some time to find the perfect one sometimes.


2nd that padded liner


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

getagrip said:


> That's just dumb. By the way, you misspelled spammer.


Guess you are new here, bikesdirect is notorious for starting thread as a new users just to promote their website.

But to each their own, you all have been had. Gullible.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

LargeMan said:


> Guess you are new here, xxxxxxxxxxx is notorious for starting thread as a new users just to promote their website.
> 
> But to each their own, you all have been had. Gullible.


Could be possible, but the responses from some folks have been fairly negative to those bikes. So, if anything, I'd say this thread is slanted against the site - even used bikes are being suggested instead.

In addition, there's some good generic advice here, so there's benefit to someone else reading the thread, even if the real goal was promotion.

Lastly, each time you mention the site (which I won't), you may be helping them with SEO keywords. So technically you are being duped too.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Except the OP didn't get a bike from Bikes Direct. So that would be a kinda bad way to promote your site wouldn't it? They got a Fuji from ebay.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

I guarantee you that I bought a Fuji from ebay and nothing from BikesDirect. In fact I could post my invoice to prove it. 

But what really swayed me was my brother who worked at a bike shop for over 5 years so I ran all the links by him from craigslist ad's to pinkbike, bikesdirect, REI, and the ebay listing. The Fuji is the only bike out of all them he considered "decent". He didn't like the REI bike mainly because it's a brand he never heard of, and said all the bikesdirect stuff was junk(at least the ones I linked him), and all of the craigslist ad's were underwhelming.

Afterwards I tallied up the dollar amount of all the parts on the Fuji bike from Shimano and the SR forks which came out to about $400 alone in parts... This is my list on my desktop still...


SR Suntour Fork - $135
Shimano Deore Crankset - $90
Bottom Bracket: Shimano - $32
Shimano Deore Front derail - $23
Shimano SLX Shadow Rear derail - $34
Shimano Deore Shifter $24
Shimano HG-50 Cassette - $35
Shimano M396 Brakeset - $32

These prices were mostly on amazon and other bike stores, and generally all of them have good reviews.

Then I checked out the geometry of the bike in comparison to the Co-Op Cycles bike and they were close enough to the point I decided to just buy it. I said all along I'm impatient, but I still think it was some smart shopping and this thread definitely helped me out because without it I wouldn't have had that Fuji link to begin with. My brother is also not close enough to pick up for craigslist runs which are hit or miss and I don't have the time for that anyway.

Bike is on the way! Definitely getting some bike shorts! Thanks for that recommendation! Found a Thule bike rack on craigslist for cheap, hopefully pick that up tomorrow. Unfortunately UPS says the bike won't arrive until Thursday...  If only I made this thread sooner I might have been riding this weekend. Oh well.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

You'll be alright on that bike. Enjoy it. You will probably learn a few things about what you want in your next bike, if you stick with it.

Helmet for sure. The riding shorts will probably help, but I didn't need them with my cheap bike saddle. My more expensive bike saddle doesn't fit me as well and took a few days/weeks of saddle sore.

On the trail, further to my point about computers, be sure to keep your eyes on the trail, considerably ahead (10 yards) of your front wheel. Look where you want to go, not at where you don't.

One of the vague disappointments of MTB for me is that you don't usually get to take in your surroundings in a leisurely fashion like you might in hiking or even trail running. Even going slow on a non-technical trail, you have to pay fairly close attention to what you are doing.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

chazpat said:


> Most people start on less expensive bikes and he said his budget is $500. Maybe he can increase that, maybe he can't. If it comes down to having a bike or not having a bike, he's better off having a bike. For $500 it's not going to be bombing down anything major but it should get him started. And there are plenty of excellent XC tires for less than $150 for a pair as well as forks for less than $500-$900.


How amusing is it that so many people assume a beginner is going to ride down the hill just as aggressively as the AM/downhill guys do. Isn't that a bit narcissistic? Yes if you are going down the hill 30 mph, $500 is junk, yes. It's not junk if you are going down the hill at a beginner speed instead of being a maniac. Is this concept that hard to understand?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

cormega said:


> Looking at getting my first bike and I'm getting kinda impatient. I've gone to my local store and they recommended the Giant ATK 2, but it looked very basic to me for the price. I need a 17" frame size as I'm only 5'8 and I'm interested in street and trail riding. The Motobecane bikes seemed very interesting to me price wise, and I'm good with tools so setting it up and tuning it shouldn't be hard at all, I'm just having trouble comparing components between the Giant ATK 2 and the Motobecane offerings. What do you guys think you would do on a $500 budget?


The cheaper the bike, the more important the individual components are. What you should look for in a $500 bike is 3x8 or 3x9 drivetrain, 27.5 or 29 (don't bother with 26), 100mm fork (it's going to be a cheap coil but don't worry about that for now), and most importantly, it should have hydraulic brakes. There are still some bikes out there up to $700 that don't have hydraulic brakes, and while they are not expensive to add on, $500 should get you them. As for Giant the Talon 3 has all of the above, but the price varies a lot, between $400-700. A $500 bike can also get you a 3x7 freewheel and horrible brakes so you should for sure look at the components you are getting.


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

Enjoy your new bike. I hope it works well for you. If the frame size feels too small, you can do things like adjust the saddle to the aft position, get a longer stem, and get riser handlebars, which will slightly effect the fit, but you don't want to do too much tweaking, because the more you tweak your bike to fit you, the more it will effect things like the center of gravity of the bike. 

Of course, you can always swap the frame out for a larger one and sell the smaller one - there are some good deals out there on eBay and sometimes on Craigslist too. If you end up going that route (hopefully you won't have to), make sure to post back here, because there are things you have to consider for compatibility like head tube diameter (1-1/8" or tapered), brake compatibility (disc or v-brake), seat tube diameter, bottom bracket size, and other factors.

Anyway, hope you like the Fuji! :thumbsup:


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Find a real bike shop you like, a local bike shop and buy what they recommend.
$500 to $600 bikes from Trek, Specialized, Giant, Scott, will all be about the same.

You will get your money's worth as all these bikes If bought new will have:

*Modern 'Geo', That will handle nicely, very Important.*

*Good components that will hold up, very Important. 
*(_Except_ for one thing, the fork will be garbage.)
To get a good air fork you need to look at $600 to $700 bikes

And MOST Important these local bike shops will be able to get parts and properly fix the bike because If you really plan to ride single track you will need them.

As For Bikes direct at $500 to $600, yep as another said. "One step above walmart"

A $500,600 a new bike at a bike shop Is worth that,
A $3000 bike from a bike shop Is worth that,
but,
A $500,600 bike from Bikes direct is worth $350 new
A $2000 bike from bikes direct Is worth or comapres to a $1000 new bike at a local bike shop
A $3000 bike from bikes direct is worth or compares to a $2300 new bike at a LBS


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## akadoublej (Jul 14, 2016)

What about this? $20 to spare.

https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/bikes-frames/mountain-bikes/hardtail/fuji-nevada-29-17-yb-n2917


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Nah the Fuji I got was $399, that's $479, $80 extra.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

A thing to expect is a sore butt for a few days until you toughen up. And learn to keep some weight off the saddle going over bumps.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Well as promised a pic and a small review.










First of all the bike came in 100% perfect condition. Assembly was pretty straight forward, just weird that the handle bars came mounted to the stem backwards/upside down. Perhaps that's normal, again no big deal.

I can't really give a great review as I've only done about a mile on the bike. 
For the money it's basically the same as the $800 bike at REI. Everything felt identical to my test ride, and it has all the same features. Remote lockout, hydraulic brakes, etc... and it's actually lighter.

So for half the cost I'm very happy. One thing I noticed after riding my brothers bike though is that the wheels felt narrow in comparison. He has a 2015 Giant Glory though which is on another level. So the wider wheels is something I'll keep note of for next time around. Perhaps I can upgrade these, or at least the front tire to a wider one??

Oh and the bike is listed as a 10 speed, but it's actually got 30 different gear combinations. 10 in the rear, 3 in the front. I was expecting a simple 10 gear, or perhaps I just don't understand how it's worded.

Either way I'm happy with my purchase, and want to thank the guy who linked it to me again.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Don't worry about upgrading anything yet. Just ride it, learn a bit about trail riding, learn what works for you and what doesn't. Just because a tire is wider doesn't mean it confers any benefit at all (it might be stickier, it might not, it probably is heavier) and it might not fit.

If you are like most people, you will probably find the most discomfiting thing about your bike, if you get into rooty or rocky stuff, is how the coil fork behaves.

One thing you may wish to play around with is tire pressure. Lower pressure, into the lower 20s or even teens, will give you better traction on the trail than the 30psi recommended by the manufacturer (it will also slow you down on the road). But, pinching of the tube between the tire and rim at sub-20 (or 25) pressures will be a limitation on how low you can go. If you find you really like the low pressure on the trail, and are getting pinch flats, you may wish to look into going tubeless, which might require new tires and maybe new rims/wheels. It will also save you some rolling weight.

The common drive train terminology is XxY, where X is the number of front chainrings and Y is the number of rear cogs. While "30 speed" is I suppose technically accurate, there is a lot of overlap in those speeds (identical ratios within the 30), and maybe 10 or 12 useful gearings in there.

The most modern concept is 1x, either 1x10, 11, or 12. This avoids use of a front derailleur which saves weight and "fiddliness" and also lessens the amount of slack in the chain, so there's less chain slap and a lot less likelihood that you throw your chain or get chain suck (impossible without a front derailleur). Also, most find that there are sufficient useful gears in that actual 10, 11, or 12 to get by, so the extra gearings provided by multiple front chainrings isn't needed.

To that end, on a 3x, beware of "cross-chaining," or putting the gears in the right- or left-most front ring and the left- or right-most (opposite) rear cog. That can pop your chain or cause it to be thrown and that sucks. Also real hard on everything in the drive train.

If you are like most people, you will spend most of your time in the middle front ring, maybe downshifting to the smallest one for the steepest climbs and the largest for the steepest descents or on the road.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Your saddle is way too low. You shouldn't be able to sit on it with your feet on the ground, it's more of a stand in front of it and then hop on and go. When stopping, you either slide off the front or lean the bike way over, kind of hard to explain and may seem uncomfortable to you at first. When seated with one leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke, your leg should be close to straight but not straight, you don't want your knee to lock. Take a look at this article:

https://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/beginner-technique-how-to-set-up-your-mountain-bike-22707/


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cormega said:


> Oh and the bike is listed as a 10 speed, but it's actually got 30 different gear combinations. 10 in the rear, 3 in the front. I was expecting a simple 10 gear, or perhaps I just don't understand how it's worded.


Most common language currently is to describe the number of cogs on the cassette only, or refer to the bike as (number of chainrings up front)x(number of cogs in the rear), so yours would be a 3x10. ebay listings are another ballgame entirely. People get lazy and list things poorly all the time over there. I won't buy anything on ebay if the listing isn't 100% clear and correct.

For the price, that Fuji is pretty respectable. Fits somewhere between my first and second mtb's.

BTW, it is extremely common for bike parts to be packaged up in funny ways to make them fit better in the box. There's always something you need to fiddle with to get it installed correctly. Sometimes you have to remove a part, reorient it, and reinstall it (stems are the most common for this). Be aware, the shifting will go to crap after a bit as the housings bed in (also called "cable stretch"). Other bits will settle as you ride, and you'll need to give the bike some TLC, or have a shop give it a basic tune.

You have SOME leeway on tire size. How much depends on the amount of space in your frame/fork, and the width of your rims. 2.4" is probably an absolute maximum for your bike, but could be less, even. But you're going to find the selection for 26" mtb tires is somewhat limited. A lot of higher quality tires just aren't available in that size anymore. Even some tread patterns in the lower priced beads and casings won't be available.

Definitely spend some time ensuring that the bike fit is adjusted well. Saddle height, angle, and fore/aft position, handlebar height (spacers under the stem/cutting the fork's steerer tube) and rotation, positions of the controls, etc. Even be open to replacing the stem for one of a different length, or a bar of different width. Strongly consider better pedals. All of those things are considered fit items, and should be evaluated for EVERY bicycle. Some won't cost anything. Others will.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

LargeMan said:


> Guess you are new here, bikesdirect is notorious for starting thread as a new users just to promote their website.
> 
> But to each their own, you all have been had. Gullible.


your troll-fu is weak, grande-san


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Well it's as low as it goes, but seems about right to me. I am 5'8, and the frame is actually a slight bit high for me. I don't think I'll bang my balls, but it's real close if an "oh ****" moment happens. Time will tell. Waiting a bit longer for the sun to come out before I go for my morning ride. As always I appreciate the feedback.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Here's one of my 26ers for comparison. I'm about your height, maybe slightly taller and this is a 17" frame. My boys will slightly rest on the top tube when I stand over it but it has never been an issue. It is common for beginners to be too worried about standover clearance, it used to be considered a lot but not so much now-a-days. I understand your hesitation in raising the saddle but with it so low, your pedaling efficiency is low. Maybe you can raise it in stages?


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

If the saddle like that gets you near-full extension (10-15 degree bend at knee), then, for future reference, that frame is likely too big for you. If it's low so you can stand flat-footed, then you simply have it adjusted too low.

Note that there is a proper saddle height and position for seated pedaling, which may not be how you ride a trail. A lot of people temporarily lower the saddle for riding rough or downhill, where you will be off the saddle and moving around your bike to shift your weight to keep it over your pedals and to provide natural shock absorption from your bent arms and legs and potentially to protect the jewels if your rear wheel should kick up over something.

Also note that at the proper height for seated pedaling, the fore and aft position is important as well, especially if you begin to feel pain behind your knees or at the front of them. It's shown in that link above, but at proper saddle height, your knee should be slightly bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke and your knee should be aligned with the pedal axle. Too far forward of the axle is the usual problem and it causes pain behind the knees after you've ridden for a while. The solution is to move the seat back a bit on the saddle clamp at the top of the seatpost. In some cases, people need "offset" seatposts or clamps to get the saddle far enough back.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

I honestly think the height is right, but I'll know more with some testing on my next ride. I finally hit up some trails and what not this morning, had a great time. I walk a lot at work so I'm surprised how much different a bike riding workout is. My legs are feeling it. Did a few miles on blacktop, and a bit of trails. I can't lie the trails were great. My ass is sore as expected. Going to pick up a bike rack in a little bit and hopefully meet my brother for a ride later. Thanks for all the advice.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Also to break up the wall of text, if that seat is at correct pedaling height, it should be more closely aligned with your stem and bars (as shown by the other photo, the saddle is usually level with or slightly above the bars in a well-fitting bike, but you can't tell much by that, really). There may be spacers under your stem and if so, you simply remove the top cap, loosen the stem and slide it off and move those spacers to above the stem and tighten everything up, then your stem and bar will be better aligned with your saddle and you wont be "reaching" for the handlebar, as it seems you might be in the photo provided.

That reaching may not be uncomfortable, per se, but it is a very suboptimal off-road riding position because you want your arms bent and relaxed and you don't want to put your back "in tension," either, because the way you react to bumps might not be smooth and relaxed, but jerky because of the strain on your bod, and that could lead to you going right off the trail.

Also, as noted above, a shorter stem (the portion connecting the handlebar to the steerer tube) looks like it might be in order for fit purposes, to bring your bar a little closer to you.

For visual effect, a short stem:








And a long stem, like what you have:









Plus, the upward angle of the existing stem appears to be doing you no favors.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

cormega said:


> He didn't like the REI bike mainly because it's a brand he never heard of,


Co-op is REI's house brand. It used to be called Novara but they rebranded a few years ago. I built and sold hundreds of them and they were all decent bikes for the money. I always felt comfortable selling them to entry-level customers. they were better bikes for the price than the Diamondback and GT offerings we had at the time.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> Co-op is REI's house brand. It used to be called Novara but they rebranded a few years ago. I built and sold hundreds of them and they were all decent bikes for the money. I always felt comfortable selling them to entry-level customers. they were better bikes for the price than the Diamondback and GT offerings we had at the time.


I suppose bikes are becoming a lot like everything else. The frames for all kinds of brand name bikes are probably made in the First or Second People's Bicycle Factory of Guangzhou or Shenzhen (or Kinesis) to the spec of the brand name, and also get sold to not brand names and then they all get built up with name brand components.

A lot of people say the bikesdirect frames are very similar if not identical to various "brand name" frames and I suspect this is the reason. It's definitely the Chinese MO.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

that saddle height! if that is really the most efficient saddle height for your legs,
1. you have absurdly short legs for your height, or
2. that frame is two sizes too big for you.

I suspect that the truth is that you have the saddle too low. If you're not sure, your knees will tell you soon enough. I once rode on a bike with a seatpost that kept slipping. after many miles of riding like that, my knee started to hurt so bad that I could barely walk for a week. don't do that to yourself.

if you're interested in setting the saddle correctly, do a little research. "how to adjust bicycle seat height" or some such phrasing in google will give you a ton of reliable results. your knee should be almost fully extended at the bottom of each pedal stroke. if you want our help, set up a camera on a time, lean the bike against a wall, climb on the bike and take a photo of yourself on the bike with the side facing the camera pedal- down. that will show us your saddle height. should look about like this:











TwiceHorn said:


> I suppose bikes are becoming a lot like everything else.


I am under the impression that it's been like that for decades.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> that saddle height! if that is really the most efficient saddle height for your legs,
> 1. you have absurdly short legs for your height, or
> 2. that frame is two sizes too big for you.
> 
> ...


Very likely. The Chinese have always built bikes, perhaps less so for electronics and a lot of other sporting gear they seem to be getting into with a western push.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TwiceHorn said:


> I suppose bikes are becoming a lot like everything else. The frames for all kinds of brand name bikes are probably made in the First or Second People's Bicycle Factory of Guangzhou or Shenzhen (or Kinesis) to the spec of the brand name, and also get sold to not brand names and then they all get built up with name brand components.
> 
> A lot of people say the bikesdirect frames are very similar if not identical to various "brand name" frames and I suspect this is the reason. It's definitely the Chinese MO.


It's always been that way, more or less. There have always been "house brands" that various retailers have had the larger factories build to their specifications. IME, those house brands have always had far less permanence in the market than the name brands. Sometimes they just get renamed. Other times they disappear entirely because the company that had them built got out of the market, or found a different factory they liked better (and they changed their house brand name to go along with that), or something else. A lot of those house brand frames were just catalog frames that a company could order from the factory, and put their branding on 'em.

I never liked Bikesdirect. Not so much for what they sold, honestly. They're all just the same ol catalog bikes, anyway. For me it's always been about their deceptive practices. Their "compare to" prices are loads of garbage. Their bikes are worth exactly what they charge. But they're notorious for slapping one nicer derailleur than you'd expect for a bike of that price, and then basing their "compare to" prices for major brand bikes that have that one derailleur. Forget that the rest of the parts on the bike belong on something several hundred dollars less expensive. And then all the shills they sent in here to claim that their bikes were exactly the same as whatever they said they compared them to. Their website is straight out of the mid 90's and looks like it was built with geocities, and it hasn't changed. There is enough competition in that market now, though, that other companies are doing a much better job of it. Same/better pricing for same/better bikes, without the lies and deceptive marketing and a more professional approach.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cormega said:


> I honestly think the height is right, but I'll know more with some testing on my next ride. I finally hit up some trails and what not this morning, had a great time. I walk a lot at work so I'm surprised how much different a bike riding workout is. My legs are feeling it. Did a few miles on blacktop, and a bit of trails. I can't lie the trails were great. My ass is sore as expected. Going to pick up a bike rack in a little bit and hopefully meet my brother for a ride later. Thanks for all the advice.


I have enormous doubts that the saddle height is anywhere close to "right". Post up pictures of yourself on the bike. I am 5'8 on a medium frame, and my saddle doesn't look anything like that when it's up. When I drop it for downhills, it looks closer to yours, though.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Some riders think they have to be able to sit on the seat and reach the ground with their feet. That's how they set their saddle height. They haven't developed the 'cowboy mount' for beginning a ride.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

Based on multiple seat height posts I've made some adjustments. As the lady in REI put it, "You're more torso than legs". After some research, and testing I raised the seat about 1 inch. 

And trust me I cannot sit on the seat and touch my feet on the ground. Remember she also recommended a 16" frame and my balls were basically on that too. Just because we're the same height doesn't mean we're built the same. I do appreciate the comments though as I believe I have it dialed in correctly now. Seat is very stiff, thinking of getting a cheap walmart seat.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

cormega said:


> Based on multiple seat height posts I've made some adjustments. As the lady in REI put it, "You're more torso than legs". After some research, and testing I raised the seat about 1 inch.
> 
> And trust me I cannot sit on the seat and touch my feet on the ground. Remember she also recommended a 16" frame and my balls were basically on that too. Just because we're the same height doesn't mean we're built the same. I do appreciate the comments though as I believe I have it dialed in correctly now. Seat is very stiff, thinking of getting a cheap walmart seat.


Fair enough. Don't change the saddle. Saddle comfort is not a function of padding, or softness, or hardness. It's a function of fit to your sitbones.

Give your butt a chance to toughen/get used to it, first. Also get some shorts, because the pad in them can "fit" you and provide some cushion in just the right place, whereas a saddle that doesn't fit can be padded to the moon and back and hurt like hell, and a raw leather Brooks that fits you right and has not a shred of padding can feel like a lazy boy.

If you continue to have pain from the saddle, you can get fitted at a bike shop by sitting in some goo to get an impression of your assbones, and having a knowledgeable person suggest some saddle models that might fit you better. Many will let you try them for a week or two to check the fit. You might luck out on your own finding a saddle that fits, but odds are better you'll waste money and have a half dozen uncomfortable saddles.

Also, don't confuse saddle height with frame fit. It seems clear from your posting that the frame is too big, but it's not because of the standover, alone. You can have saddle height correct and still be on a frame that's too big or too small.

Most of us are/were alarmed at how low your saddle was relative to your stem and handlebars because it's a long way from there to your handlebars (the reach). That's not the end of the issue, especially if you are long-waisted and have long arms. Raising your seat an inch does a bit to alleviate that concern.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Harold said:


> Their website is straight out of the mid 90's and looks like it was built with geocities, and it hasn't changed.


No kidding! I hadn't visited their site in years until this thread and when I went there, wow, flashback! I felt like I needed to be viewing it on a 14" CRT monitor for the full experience.

And I didn't know you could still buy new downtube and stem shift road bikes!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Harold said:


> I have enormous doubts that the saddle height is anywhere close to "right". Post up pictures of yourself on the bike. I am 5'8 on a medium frame, and my saddle doesn't look anything like that when it's up. When I drop it for downhills, it looks closer to yours, though.


One of the pitfalls of buying a bike online is incorrect frame sizing. We've seen it before, and we'll see it again.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

If the saddle is indeed in the right spot, I would work to get that handlebar lower. That is "beach cruiser" position there. It will be hard to get your butt up off the saddle when you need to with the handlebar that high and far away from you. It's odd that they even built a bike with a stem that put you in granny bike position. You can get a shorter stem, but you can also rearrange the spacers and or flip the stem over.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

I noticed this yesterday when I went for a night ride. As a motorcyclist your arms are supposed to be bent while holding onto the bars, but on this bike my arms feel fully extended. I definitely feel the bars should be closer, exactly what should I buy to make that happen? New steering stem you say? There are 3 spacers in there so I can try taking one out at a time, but that's going to go down, I need to pull it in closer.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Your picture shows one long ass stem. So I'd start there. You can go to a shop with your bike and your multi-tool. Go to the guys in the service area and ask to try one of the used stems they have in a box back there. Go for a 70mm with some maybe 9* rise. 
Swap it on with your tool. It'll take you a couple minutes without doing anything to the brakes or shifters or grips. Practice at home. 
Then test ride your bike and try other sizes if necessary. A used stem from a shop should be cheap. 
Or ebay is a good source.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

cormega said:


> I noticed this yesterday when I went for a night ride. As a motorcyclist your arms are supposed to be bent while holding onto the bars, but on this bike my arms feel fully extended. I definitely feel the bars should be closer, exactly what should I buy to make that happen? New steering stem you say? There are 3 spacers in there so I can try taking one out at a time, but that's going to go down, I need to pull it in closer.


You need a shorter stem. See post #66 above. The one he showed is very short; yours is very long by today's standards, surprised your bike came with it, looks like about a 120mm.

According to the specs on eBay, what you have is: Stem: Oval Concepts 313, 6061 3D-forged alloy, 31.8mm, 7° rise. So you would need a 31.8mm (this is where it clamps the handlebar; older stems will be 25.4mm) x XXmm length. Measure how long your current one is, from the center of where it mounts to the steering tube to the center of where it clamps the handlebar, in mm. Not sure what length you should try, maybe a 50-70mm.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

What these guys said, especially asking a bike shop what they have in shorter used stems. It will have a slight effect on steering, but should be any big deal since you aren't used to anything yet. But you can try several, hopefully.

While you have it off, you can lower it all a bit by swapping the spacers. Don't "remove" them, move them all to above the stem from below the stem.


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## cormega (Jun 26, 2018)

I don't know if you guys will approve but I bought this stem off Amazon for $10. It has good reviews and brings me a lot closer to the bars, and I've done basically the exact same thing with every motorcycle I've owned. It is a slot shorter than the stock stem, and I see no downside to that. Mainly I needed to have it before this weekends riding session.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071YV77R7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3SYHJE180VKRW&psc=1


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

cormega said:


> I don't know if you guys will approve but I bought this stem off Amazon for $10. It has good reviews and brings me a lot closer to the bars, and I've done basically the exact same thing with every motorcycle I've owned. It is a slot shorter than the stock stem, and I see no downside to that. Mainly I needed to have it before this weekends riding session.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071YV77R7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3SYHJE180VKRW&psc=1


TBH, this description scares me a bit:

"Suitable for modified, DIY, upgrade the bike. Downhill, Chongshan, climbing, with them very comfortable."


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

It's from that 1st People's Bicycle Factory discussed above.

And it's the one I posted above, not intending to endorse. Probably be ok, though. If not, sorry man.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

I was picking up my bike from the LBS today, saw a beautiful Fuji hardtail on the rack there. Brand-new, looked like it has not touched dirt yet. And then I noticed the gearing. 3x7. 3x7!!! Giant has this too. I bet almost all of them have it. All of the 'quality' bike brands that you guys gush over. They all have their low-end variants that have older, cheaper components. The question is...would you really take this bike over a 2x11 off-brand Chinese bike just because you recognized the brand? Yes it's a loaded question because it should have one answer...no.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Stems are one of a handful of critical components that one should never gamble with via an unknown brand. 

Could be identical or better than a known equivalent, or could be catastrophically worse.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

richj8990 said:


> All of the 'quality' bike brands that you guys gush over. They all have their low-end variants that have older, cheaper components. The question is...would you really take this bike over a 2x11 off-brand Chinese bike just because you recognized the brand? Yes it's a loaded question because it should have one answer...no.


You're out of your element, Donny.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> I was picking up my bike from the LBS today, saw a beautiful Fuji hardtail on the rack there. Brand-new, looked like it has not touched dirt yet. And then I noticed the gearing. 3x7. 3x7!!! Giant has this too. I bet almost all of them have it. All of the 'quality' bike brands that you guys gush over. They all have their low-end variants that have older, cheaper components. The question is...would you really take this bike over a 2x11 off-brand Chinese bike just because you recognized the brand? Yes it's a loaded question because it should have one answer...no.


Pretty sure Santa Cruz doesn't have any 3x7 bikes. And again, my wife is Chinese and from what she has told me, nope. If I had the chance to really look it over and it was a really good price but not too good, maybe. But I would probably always be worried wondering if it was really just an engineered open design bike or a looks-like-a-bike-let's-make-easy-money bike.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

A whole lot of price-competitive (ie cheap) bikes are of Chinese manufacture, the frames and a lot of the components. But the quality control exercised over the product by the traditional Western "brand" can often be invaluable.

"Brand name" can be overrated, but truly off-brand (not associated with a reliable outlet like REI) has a substantial chance of being a bad deal.


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