# A little game of "What's this frame?"



## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

Ok, so through one of the local manufacturers I tend to frequent I got hooked up with a couple frame production samples from various Taiwan factories that were going to be scraped. They are basically catalog bikes sold to companies to brand as their own but it's always fun to try to figure out who actually uses them. 

So lets start with this one, its a FR frame, made by A-Pro Tek in Taiwan, looks to be about 7-7.5" of travel. Kind of looks like a Orange knockoff.

Any ideas to what companies actually labeled these as their own?


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

Marin?


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## oldskoolbiker (Jun 2, 2005)

ibex (so what do I win?)


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## Nickle (Aug 23, 2006)

Looks like an Orange offering from a few years back.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

oldskoolbiker said:


> ibex


Wow, that was quick. I guess we know who makes IBEX bikes now. Anyone know other companies using this frame?

Looks pretty burly, but I wonder if its worth building up on the cheap.


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## Karupshun (Jun 13, 2006)

When does Perc tell us how awesome Ibex is?


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

Karupshun said:


> When does Perc tell us how awesome Ibex is?


LOL, I wonder if IBEX is actually just A-Pro selling direct in the US. I found another bike thats the same frame by Diamondback, which is only available in Europe.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

Im pretty sure that Ibex knock off frame has a 69 degree headtube angle. I remember it being stupid steep.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

motormonkeyr6 said:


> Im pretty sure that Ibex knock off frame has a 69 degree headtube angle. I remember it being stupid steep.


Their site claims a 68 degree angle with a 130mm fork, which is retarded on a 7" bike. I think I am going to build it up with a 8.5x2.5 shock instead of 8.75x2.75 to drop the back end a little and then throw a Monster T on the front for sh¡ts and giggles.

I got spare parts lying around, so might as well see what kind of franken bike I can come up with


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

make it GNARKORE!


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Karupshun said:


> When does Perc tell us how awesome Ibex is?


Hahaha...

No no no. That's CHUMBA now. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

SamL3227 said:


> make it GNARKORE!


I was thinking more along the lines of "Trashcore":rockon:

Its not nearly as bad as the other frame I grabbed from the recycle pile...










1 1/4" Bulging Headtube √  
Worlds Longest Rocker Links √  
4" Travel XC frame weighing 8.5lbs √ 

Sometimes I look at these generic Taiwan bikes and just go wtf :skep:


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## The Dude (Jan 19, 2004)

sixsixtysix said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of "Trashcore":rockon:
> 
> Its not nearly as bad as the other frame I grabbed from the recycle pile...
> 
> ...


a pivot above and below the axle. interesting. reminds me of the old lawwil design


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

Wow, this makes me sad.

The downtube looks like an Orange, the Upper Shock mount looks Transition Blindside, the rear stays/triangle looks like the newer Orange Alpine (Patriot replacement).

Probably ten a penny in Taiwan!!


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## CaliforniaNicco (Oct 13, 2008)

wow....considering diamondback and ibis have the same frame, it shows that off-shore manufacturers have taken over....


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Sixty, you're not really gonna build up that Flaming O are you!?? You'll never hear the end of it if you do :lol:


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

The Mondraker Level also uses the same frame... rode an Ibex Zone for a while... fun bikes...


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## cactuscorn (Feb 5, 2004)

a swing and a miss.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

oh yeah !!! another single pivot


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

CaliforniaNicco said:


> wow....considering diamondback and ibis have the same frame, it shows that off-shore manufacturers have taken over....


i dont know about taken over...theyve always been around.

a lot of bike companies use sources outside the country to make their frames. Sinister for example, who's known for american hand welded frames, their Gruitr frame is fabricated and welded in Canada...doesnt make it a bad thing though. shoot...Giant Glory's are made in Taiwan. still a great bike.


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## Energetik (Feb 7, 2008)

Giants are made in Taiwan because they're a Taiwanese company. Kinesis makes frames for a few manufacturers. Rebranding is a common thing in manufacturing. Read the fine print on car batteries for example. They're only made by a few companies like JCI, Exide, and East Penn Manufacturing. (among mostly US companies) Craftsman tools? Not a single one made by Craftsman. (as of 4 years ago when I worked for Sears) 

I've got a torque wrench that I've seen branded as Craftsman, Park Tools, and a few others. Got it for 10 bucks unbranded. etc...


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

That "8-ball" head tube is awesome. I hope that catches on with other bike builders.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2009)

kenbentit said:


> Sixty, you're not really gonna build up that Flaming O are you!?? You'll never hear the end of it if you do :lol:


HAHAHAHA, no.

But Fish is...


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Looks like the DB has a 1.5 inch headtube. It's not surprising though.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2009)

Honestly, there are only a handfull of manufacturers in Taiwan that basically do frames for everyone. Pacific, A-Pro, Kinesis, Matrix Metals, Giant, Merida and a few others, and in the US there are only 2 or 3 like Sapa in Oregon.

Pacific produces frames for brands like Banshee and Canfield. Giant makes bikes for companies like Trek, Specialized, Scott and all non VPP Santa Cruz's.

Basically what it boils down too is that all bikes, unless you're riding a boutique bike that you know was welded in house was probably made by a major production facility along side many many other brands of bikes.


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## tozovr (Jul 26, 2006)

brillantesdv said:


> i dont know about taken over...theyve always been around.
> 
> a lot of bike companies use sources outside the country to make their frames. Sinister for example, who's known for american hand welded frames, their Gruitr frame is fabricated and welded in Canada...doesnt make it a bad thing though. shoot...Giant Glory's are made in Taiwan. still a great bike.


I think that is part of the reason Giants are such an incredible value as well. They own their own factory etc.

The Nice thing about the Gruitr being hand made in Canada is that it's a car trip to visit the factory....well that and the ability to have the great craftsmanship with the availability of bigger production numbers at a quicker pace than just Frank all alone in VT. It was a bit different when Sinister was situated in a huge machine shop in Walpole, NH. Frank needed 20 sets of drop outs, it was a few hours and no initial out of pocket cash. Now he's either got to mill it himself of shell out the $$ to get it done down the street.

RJ


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## xterrain (May 6, 2008)

sixsixtysix said:


> Ok, so through one of the local manufacturers I tend to frequent I got hooked up with a couple frame production samples from various Taiwan factories that were going to be scraped. They are basically catalog bikes sold to companies to brand as their own but it's always fun to try to figure out who actually uses them.
> 
> So lets start with this one, its a FR frame, made by A-Pro Tek in Taiwan, looks to be about 7-7.5" of travel. Kind of looks like a Orange knockoff.
> 
> Any ideas to what companies actually labeled these as their own?


Any idea of what the company names are that supply these bikes? I mean in bulk, or at least a contact for other catalog bike producers???


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Orange-Goblin said:


> Orange Alpine (Patriot replacement)


im sorry but you are wrong. the alpine originated as the 224, strange (department of orange) wanted some thing along the 224 but xc, so they toned down the travel and changed the geomatery, ended up with the "224xc" changed the swinging arm then renamed it the alpine, so unfortunately the patriot no longer exists in production 

thats mad having a 130mm fork on a 7 inch fr frame??? :skep: 
maybe there is another version of this frame with less travel that ibex has?


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> im sorry but you are wrong. the alpine originated as the 224, strange (department of orange) wanted some thing along the 224 but xc, so they toned down the travel and changed the geomatery, ended up with the "224xc" changed the swinging arm then renamed it the alpine, so unfortunately the patriot no longer exists in production


talk about a convoluted post...


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

strange


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2009)

xterrain said:


> Any idea of what the company names are that supply these bikes? I mean in bulk, or at least a contact for other catalog bike producers???


The frame in this post was made by A-Pro Tek Taiwan. It is or was sold by Ibex, Diamondback, KHS and Mondraker in one form or another.

http://www.apro-tek.com/


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

is there any way to buy the unbranded or apro brand frames direct?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2009)

spazzy said:


> is there any way to buy the unbranded or apro brand frames direct?


Probably not. Most of the companies that use their frames make changes to the geometry, tubing and minor design changes before placing an order. Generally there are minimum orders of certain amount of units.

Here is the perfect example of companies making changes to catalog frames using the A-Pro frame I posted.

KHS DH 001: Shock mount is moved forward with a carriage system for adjustment. Little different gusseting on the swingarm.









Mondraker Level: Different shock mounts allowing for adjustable travel of 150-160-170mm









Diamondback XTS Moto: 1.5 Headtube.









Ibex Zone: Most basic of the designs, no shock mount adjustment, no 1.5 headtube.


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