# Battery size/range in real life



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I read a few complaints from riders with new, recent Ebikes.
Going from from 500Wh to 625 or 700 they were expecting better range.
It is not happening.
My guess is they went from 70nm to 85 nm so their battery is just
capable of what the older one could more or less.
What is your experience?


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

33red said:


> I read a few complaints from riders with new, recent Ebikes.
> Going from from 500Wh to 625 or 700 they were expecting better range.
> It is not happening.
> *My guess is they went from 70nm to 85 nm so their battery is just
> ...


I think your theory is about right.

Also, manufacturers are (arguably rightly) growing more used to what the eMTB paradigm brings to the table and are no longer afraid of trading in a bit of trailbike efficiency for a bit of enduro rowdiness, esp. as motors grow stronger. But physics is physics, and the increased peak output of those motors equates to increased peak draw from the batteries.

There's also the idea that even if two motors with varying peak outputs were adjusted to equivalent output, their efficiencies of energy conversion will not be the same at that equivalent output. It's like if you limit a V8 Hemi's output to that of a Prius' MiIler-cycle 4-banger, you're not going to achieve the same efficiency.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

If you have the same bike, going from a 500 to 700 battery will give you just under 30% more range. If you’re on different bikes, with different motors, different terrain, different components it will be impossible to calculate how much range range you actually get.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

RBoardman said:


> If you have the same bike, going from a 500 to 700 battery will give you just under 30% more range. If you’re on different bikes, with different motors, different terrain, different components it will be impossible to calculate how much range range you actually get.


A- Not all bikes can take a battery with 30% more range.
B- Ebikes are just improving on paper with stuff like lighter motor but they need more watts.
I am just saying i see no need to go from my 70Nm 500Wh because some BS marketing or fake reviews.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

33red said:


> A- Not all bikes can take a battery with 30% more range.
> B- Ebikes are just improving on paper with stuff like lighter motor but they need more watts.
> I am just saying i see no need to go from my 70Nm 500Wh because some BS marketing or fake reviews.


I don't see how marketing or reviews (BS or fully-truthful) is forcing you to update to the newest version of something if what you've got already works for you.

E-bikes are indeed improving. How could they not be, given how early they are in their existence?


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DtEW said:


> I don't see how marketing or reviews (BS or fully-truthful) is forcing you to update to the newest version of something if what you've got already works for you.
> 
> E-bikes are indeed improving. How could they not be, given how early they are in their existence?


My best experience was when I had (2) 504WH batteries that I could mix/match with (2) different Haibikes that I owned. I even remember shopping for a pack with a padded battery compartment so I could have 1008WH on the trail, but my typical rides were too short for that.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

33red said:


> A- Not all bikes can take a battery with 30% more range.
> B- Ebikes are just improving on paper with stuff like lighter motor but they need more watts.
> I am just saying i see no need to go from my 70Nm 500Wh because some BS marketing or fake reviews.


A) I was referring to the Levo, which can. 
B) And your point is? Good for you, some of us like upgrading our bikes for things like new geo and components, and not just the size and power of the battery/motor.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

My Rail and Levo got way better range than any EP8 bike I owned. The power and range of the new Levo is very impressive in my mind. Not marketing fluff, actual performance. But hey, if you can do all you want on your 500wh battery, than cool.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

We just popped for a new Levo sl for my sweetie.
I told her to stay off the forums and just go out and ride.
Real world vs. internet "experts" will determine more then reading the opinion of others.....


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

50wh/mile (30wh/km) is what I base things on. Pedal more it will go down, it gets colder out the range drops to.
I just couldnt do without 1500wh of battery. I would prefer to have a total of 2500wh tbh, ideally one battery at 1250wh x2.


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

matt4x4 said:


> 50wh/mile (30wh/km) is what I base things on. Pedal more it will go down, it gets colder out the range drops to.
> I just couldnt do without 1500wh of battery. I would prefer to have a total of 2500wh tbh, ideally one battery at 1250wh x2.


I was told higher cadence helps by Specialized, it does seem like the motor is working harder if you're pedaling slower... like its giving more assist. 

For reference if anyone wants some real world ride correlation I've got a 22 Levo (700wh) and a few of the longer rides that I was noted the battery life at the end of the ride (ride are in moderate CA weather 60s-70s air temp):

23 miles/6,200' elev gain/2-1/2 hr ride with 2-1/2 bars left (3rd one dim), mostly trail mode a little of eco and lots of +20% grade climbs. I could've done more.
30 miles/5,000' elev gain/3hr ride with 13% battery, this was on the bike I demo'd which was well used. This was about the limit for this bike. I was mostly between trail and eco, tried Turbo just to see what it was like at the end. It was after the ride that I was told about keeping higher cadence for peak efficiency.
I had expected more from the bike, I can do both of the above rides on my pedal bike it just takes longer (obviously). For most rides the battery is more than enough.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

EliminatorMTB said:


> I was told higher cadence helps by Specialized, it does seem like the motor is working harder if you're pedaling slower... like its giving more assist.
> 
> For reference if anyone wants some real world ride correlation I've got a 22 Levo (700wh) and a few of the longer rides that I was noted the battery life at the end of the ride (ride are in moderate CA weather 60s-70s air temp):
> 
> ...


From my personal experience and what i read in the last 3 years, lights, numbers are rough approximations.
How much do you weight?
Last winter in zero farenheights i was riding 2 Hrs with my 500Wh. I weight 140 pounds.
Some days because of high winds or bad surface i was getting home a bit before 2H just to be safe.
Obviously in july warmer and better surface i will get more time in the saddle.
Each system is a bit different. To last longer we can lower the assist level or often up the cadence.


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

33red said:


> From my personal experience and what i read in the last 3 years, lights, numbers are rough approximations.
> How much do you weight?
> Last winter in zero farenheights i was riding 2 Hrs with my 500Wh. I weight 140 pounds.
> Some days because of high winds or bad surface i was getting home a bit before 2H just to be safe.
> ...


I’m ~200lbs with all my gear. If I lower to assistance too much than I’d rather just be on my pedal bike if I’m going to work that hard and not worry about Range. There are a few rides where I’d like to be able to do more and I’ll try keeping it in the lower assist mode and see if it makes a difference. I haven’t noticed wildly differing range by lowering the mode between eco and trail on the Levo so far.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

EliminatorMTB said:


> I’m ~200lbs with all my gear. If I lower to assistance too much than I’d rather just be on my pedal bike if I’m going to work that hard and not worry about Range. There are a few rides where I’d like to be able to do more and I’ll try keeping it in the lower assist mode and see if it makes a difference. I haven’t noticed wildly differing range by lowering the mode between eco and trail on the Levo so far.


Well other options are more PSI if possible, faster rolling tires if possible or
dropping 15 pounds if possible.Enjoy your season


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