# rounding off my nipples



## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

On the last couple of wheels that I've trued, I've ended up rounding the edges off of one or two of the spoke nipples. That's frustrating, because inevitably I need to make more adjustments to those nipples, and yet I cannot because they are rounded off.

I've been making a point lately to move more slowly with the spoke wrench. Some of the rounded edges have been entirely my fault. But other times, the problem seems down to very old and/or cheap and ill-maintained equipment. The nipples on the Walmart-style bike, for example, have not been a joy to work with.

What else can I do? Is there a tool of some sort that I can use to adjust rounded-off nipples? Does anyone make the equivalent of a vice-grips for spoke nipples? What's a good solution when I round one off? 

I'm using Park spoke wrenches. Are those decent quality? Is there another brand worth looking at?

Again, I know that my technique at times has been poor. I'm working to improve that. But I'm also looking for a solution to adjusting those nipples that -- for whatever reason -- do get rounded off.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Several manufacturers make "4 sided" spoke wrenches that wrap around more of the nipple.

After rounding off a few nipples first, I now put a drop of penetrating oil on them before I start. It works for me.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the oil. I'll give that a try next time.

I'll look for a four-sided wrench too.

I'm still wondering what to do about the rounded nipples.


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## Squash (Jul 20, 2003)

*Take the time....*

to lubricate the nips before you start the truing process. Older wheels have been subjected to water, dust etc. And the gunk gets down into the nipple seats and can make them anything from sticky to down right frozen. Take something like Triflow and simply put a drop of the stuff for each nip where the nipple protrudes from the rim and let it sit for a few minutes and allow it to penetrate into the spoke bed. This usually frees them up. Also with cheaper wheels I'll put a drop of lube where the spoke enters the nipple as well. This won't hurt anything on a cheap wheel where the spokes likely weren't lubed or where spoke prep likely wasn't used in the first place. Also pay attention to how the spokes surrounding the offending nipple react to being wrenched on. If the oposite spokes seem to move fairly freely, you've likely got a wheel that has been trued up before and the tension on the offending spoke is too high so it ain't gonna go no more! The wheel probably was borderline and somebody didn't want to pay for a new wheel. The wheel likely should have been replaced, but the mechanic just did the best he could. We get folks like that in the shop all the time. But it makes it a PIA for the next guy that's got to try and ture the damned thing! Also pay particular attention to the condition of the spokes themselves. If they look corroded, very dull or feel really rough to the touch, you're likely gonna have problems that even lubing the nips won't complete resolve. With wheels like that it's usually better to just pass on them.

Park makes good spoke wrenches, though they do wear out over years of use. But they do make two different styles of wrenches. They make the SW-0 thru SW-3 which are two sided spoke wrenches, i.e. they work on two flats on the nipple at one time. These simply slide onto the nip from the side. Or they make the SW-40 and 42 (the black and red wrenches only) that are four sided wrenches that engage all four flats on the nipple. These you have to slide down on the nipple from the top. Not as convinient as the 2 sided wrenches, but less likely to round a sticky nipple than the others. And for those already rounded nipples that you need to replace they make the SW-10 which is an adjustable spoke wrench. I've used the SW-10 to remove seemingly hoplessly rounded spokes for replacement. And do keep in mind that once a nipple is rounded it should be replaced. Leaving it in place simply sets you (or somebody else) up for more future frustration.

Good Dirt


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## KevinB (Oct 5, 2004)

JonathanGennick said:


> I'll look for a four-sided wrench too.


I've been very happy with the DT Swiss Spokey.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Squash, Kevinb, and everyone, thanks much for the advice. I'll be ordering that SW-10 wrench, and probably some four-sided wrenches as well.

Good thing you told me where to put the lube Squash. I'd have only thought to lube the threads. 

In case anyone is curious, I'm doing a frame-swap for a friend's teenage son, making a silk-purse Rockhopper out of a sow's-ear department store bike. Along the way, I'm rebuilding the hubs, truing the wheels, throwing in a few bits from my parts bin.


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

JonathanGennick said:


> Good thing you told me where to put the lube Squash. I'd have only thought to lube the threads.


On older wheels I usually do 2 full revolutions with the triflow bottle. Once to lube the threads and once around to lube the eyelet (or between the rim and nipple if no eyelet).

Another god send for frozen or stripped nipples is the Park SW-10. It isn't cheap, but it is adjustable and can really clamp down on stripped nipples allowing removal or in the worst case just a bit more tension. Usually if they strip on me though I will just replace the offending nipple as opposed to leaving it for the next guy.


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## PlasticBike (Sep 27, 2008)

JonathanGennick said:


> Squash, Kevinb, and everyone, thanks much for the advice. I'll be ordering that SW-10 wrench, and probably some four-sided wrenches as well.
> 
> Good thing you told me where to put the lube Squash. I'd have only thought to lube the threads.
> 
> In case anyone is curious, I'm doing a frame-swap for a friend's teenage son, making a silk-purse Rockhopper out of a sow's-ear department store bike. Along the way, I'm rebuilding the hubs, truing the wheels, throwing in a few bits from my parts bin.


Do your best to avoid reusing the crank. I've seen several SEVERE crank failures on department store bikes. Also, replacing cheap hard rubber V-brake pads with any "real" brand will make a world of difference.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

PlasticBike said:


> Do your best to avoid reusing the crank. I've seen several SEVERE crank failures on department store bikes.


Funny you should mention that. I ended up replacing the crank. The "mountain-bike' I was pulling parts from was spec'd with a 28/38/48 crankset (riveted). That's a terrible gear combination, especially when mated with a rear cassette going only to 28 teeth. I let the kid have the Truvative cranks and rings, and bottom-bracket, that originally came on the Rockhopper. And I threw in a Raceface bashguard. Now he has 22/32/bash up front, and he's much better able to push that gearing.



PlasticBike said:


> Also, replacing cheap hard rubber V-brake pads with any "real" brand will make a world of difference.


Sadly, I had no extra disc brakes to give him. The donor bike had cheap discs, and they don't perform well at all.


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## summud (Jul 26, 2006)

i always lube my nipples before i start twisting on them...




what?...someone had to say it!!


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## PlasticBike (Sep 27, 2008)

Jonathan Gennick, you are a good guy! You built the kid a reasonable bike AND donated a pile of parts.


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