# Demo + 40 + Special Bumpers = Dents!!!!!



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

I should have known better than to trust those chincy bumpers specialized is sending out to use when you put a fox 40 on their new 2011 frames. This damage was done after a few practice runs at a local flow track. No crashes or hard turning, only some minor whipping. Probably about 15 minutes of seat time on the bike.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

call specialize in the morning


----------



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

im going to have my shop deal with it. I dont think its enough damage to attempt to warrenty the frame?!?!?


----------



## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

jurichar said:


> im going to have my shop deal with it. I dont think its enough damage to attempt to warrenty the frame?!?!?


Pretty sure they'll send you a new frame so you can dent it again :thumbsup: Knowing Specialized , they wont waste their time trying to avoid getting you a new frame.
Specialized = $$$ no fussing around for this sort of stuff


----------



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

tuumbaq said:


> Pretty sure they'll send you a new frame so you can dent it again :thumbsup: Knowing Specialized , they wont waste their time trying to avoid getting you a new frame.
> Specialized = $$$ no fussing around for this sort of stuff


figures. As cool as it would be to go through a frame after 15 minutes of riding. I spent about 40 hours applying clear bra to this entire bike. there is no way in hell i want to go through that amount of pain and suffering again. not to mention the cost of 3m clear bra. its not really noticeable right now and i really dont think its going to be a frame integrity issue (at least if it stays at this level). If it gets worse...maybe?!? I'm just pissed that specialized allowed this to happen. Its a $6200 bike...maybe they should remember that when they design parts for it.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

That is definitely worth a warranty, I can't believe that didn't get noticed in testing. I wonder if it happened to berrecloths bike since he runs fox too?


----------



## gollub01 (Mar 24, 2008)

In the mean time throw some of those clear picture frame hanging "bumpers" on the frame to prevent that again. I feel your pain, new bike, un-crashed that sucks ! If you get another frame its back to the same problem as you know. (til you come up with a idea). I always thought those Acros headset with the built in stops was cool. This would def be a good use for one. Hope you get sorted !


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Those things look woefully inadequate. Was it not an option just to run the big bumpers that came with the fork?


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

gollub01 said:


> I always thought those Acros headset with the built in stops was cool. This would def be a good use for one. Hope you get sorted !


Thanks for mentioning this one, it looks quite interesting indeed, for future reference. :thumbsup:

http://www.acros.de/PRODUCTS/HEADSET/BLOCKLOCK:::3_91_145.html


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Spec will probably call it crash damage and void your warranty. Sorry bout your luck


----------



## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

Iceman2058 said:


> Those things look woefully inadequate. Was it not an option just to run the big bumpers that came with the fork?


Yeah. I 2nd that question.


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

norbar said:


> Yeah. I 2nd that question.


It's a matter of the headtube not being long enough for the Fox 40 lower crowns (that have the pinch bolts in the back) to clear the bottom tube when turning to it's maximum radius (when the stanchion bumpers usually touch the frame).

It's only an issue with the Fox 40, yet still an issue.

(There's a thread discussing this here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=677426 )


----------



## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

So correct me if Im wrong but it appears that you cannot run any other fork than the BoXXers ( and possibly 888, Dorados ???) on that frame .Neither can you run ANYTHING else than the stock RC4...no DB, no Elka, BOS and not even the RS yet( which to me is the most laughable thing ever since the development on this thing was done on a RS shock)

Worst part is , the stock RC4 is poorly valved and there's not much you can about it unless if you know how to play with shims and tune rear shocks...

Pretty f-ing lame if you ask me, surprise no one said anything about that ... and Specialized is pumping hundreds of those frames out the door, what a joke...SAM HILL, the man himself only started to test this thing back in July and by September they were already taking orders...not a whole lot of development if you ask me...

Sorry for your frame bro, like I said earlier, Im pretty sure they'll hook u up with another frame but I would get rid of it and support a different company...


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

jurichar said:


> I should have known better than to trust those chincy bumpers specialized is sending out to use when you put a fox 40 on their new 2011 frames. This damage was done after a few practice runs at a local flow track. No crashes or hard turning, only some minor whipping. Probably about 15 minutes of seat time on the bike.


We are aware that the first batch of bumpers did not turn out as durable as we would have liked. Sorry that you had a bad experience with them. Your shop can get better ones from customer service.

Boomslang


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

Iceman2058 said:


> Was it not an option just to run the big bumpers that came with the fork?


No - the Fox crown hits the DT before the bumpers do.

Boomslang


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

tuumbaq said:


> So correct me if Im wrong but it appears that you cannot run any other fork than the BoXXers ( and possibly 888, Dorados ???) on that frame .Neither can you run ANYTHING else than the stock RC4...no DB, no Elka, BOS and not even the RS yet( which to me is the most laughable thing ever since the development on this thing was done on a RS shock)


I've only heard of this issue with the 40, but in theory it could solved for good with either a headset that wasn't zero stack in the bottom cup or the Acros Blocklock mentioned on another post.

On the rear shock, the issue you mention is it a space one or do you mean the shock mount that has the bearings? On the shock mount, I was under the impression that it is compatible with other shocks, it only requires that the eyelet and rebound knob are rotated 45º (like the S Works Enduro Carbon), given that the eyelets are all the same width.

From the design perspective it does look like they missed some important stuff, but it does look like it's fixable (at least more fixable than say the Fox DRCV or Dyad on some bikes). On the other hand, we're moving more and more towards the "bike for 1 season" thing and the manufacturers (generally speaking) are thinking with that trend in mind too when designing.


----------



## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

JakeWake said:


> We are aware that the first batch of bumpers did not turn out as durable as we would have liked. Sorry that you had a bad experience with them. Your shop can get better ones from customer service.
> 
> Boomslang


So...when Specialized realized the first time they had dropped the ball and came up with this band aid solution...no one made sure they wouldn't drop it a second time ?


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

The shock mount thingy I was mentioning, by the way:


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

hafnz said:


> It's a matter of the headtube not being long enough for the Fox 40 lower crowns


So, the issue is Spesh have put out an inferior product and not told anybody. If they're going to do that they should have put it in writing that you can't run 40s, or need to use a taller headset or... something. Not saying anything then looking surprised when damaged frames come back isn't a great advert.


----------



## Norcoshore1 (Apr 28, 2010)

I would be pissed man. If thats what happened after 15 min imagine what the bike would look like after a whole season! Those things dont even look like real bumpers! So due to the stupidity of specialized, you are forced to live with a dented up frame (that is if they dont warranty it) and even if they do you will have to buy a different headset or fork. What kind of company makes a product that requires a consumer to have to shell out more money (as if $6200 wasnt enough) just so they don't damage it while using it for its intended purpose while staying withing the limits of reasonable use? If I were you I would call and give them crap.


----------



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

Norcoshore1 said:


> I would be pissed man. If thats what happened after 15 min imagine what the bike would look like after a whole season! Those things dont even look like real bumpers! So due to the stupidity of specialized, you are forced to live with a dented up frame (that is if they dont warranty it) and even if they do you will have to buy a different headset or fork. What kind of company makes a product that requires a consumer to have to shell out more money (as if $6200 wasnt enough) just so they don't damage it while using it for its intended purpose while staying withing the limits of reasonable use? If I were you I would call and give them crap.


I completely agree with you on this, but what can they do to make it right if i do complain??? Its gonna happen again even with a new frame. Plus the clear bra issue. It just sucks.


----------



## mauricus (Feb 18, 2006)

I don’t know that I am ready to accept that this happened because of whips. I've never seen a whip violent enough to dent/crack a frame, let alone in 15 minutes of casual riding. If it did, you ought to check your stanchions too.

Seriously though, it sucks that you now have that to deal with that. My experience with S warranty has been positive the few times that I have dealt with them. I am sure they will take care of you.

Good luck.


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

mauricus said:


> I don't know that I am ready to accept that this happened because of whips. I've never seen a whip violent enough to dent/crack a frame, let alone in 15 minutes of casual riding. If it did, you ought to check your stanchions too.


The stanchions didn't hit the frame, the edges of the lower crown did.


----------



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

Yeah its the lower crown that hits the frame. Im not saying my puny whips caused the damage thats just the only time i can think of that the lower crown hit the frame??? Unless it was when i was pedaling around my living room lol. im am discussing this with spesh right now it sounds like they want to do something to make up for their mistake. i have had no experience with their warrenty but ive heard a ton of good stories. dont take this as a negative post ab specialized, i just dont want a bunch of people to have the same damage as i did.


----------



## jcin (Jan 15, 2008)

those bumpers look retardialized


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Given your bike quiver they would have to be pretty stupid people not to look after you now.


----------



## norbar (Jun 5, 2007)

I may be blind but is that a hole in your frame? Looks a bit more impressive than a simple dent.


----------



## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Christ, just looking at those things you can easily tell they are nowhere near upto the job they were intended for, sucks to hear about it man, id feel you pain after putting on all that clear bra, hope it gets all sorted for ya


----------



## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

The obvious solution here is get a Boxxer :thumbsup:


----------



## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

That looks like a crack in the frame not just a dent


----------



## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

Fix the Spade said:


> So, the issue is Spesh have put out an inferior product and not told anybody. If they're going to do that they should have put it in writing that you can't run 40s, or need to use a taller headset or... something. Not saying anything then looking surprised when damaged frames come back isn't a great advert.


how is a short head tube inferior?
short head tube = lower front end = faster

Im going to guess that other frames are going to start having this issue as their head tubes get shorter too. (or fork designs will have to change)


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

The issue is not the short head tube, but the fact that the downtube starts downwards immediately after the headtube. It would need to head straight back a bit before turning downwards, so to speak. This is an issue because of the shape of the lower crown of the 40 (which is horizontal as opposed to downward sloping like on the Boxxer).


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

Evan55 said:


> how is a short head tube inferior?
> short head tube = lower front end = faster
> 
> Im going to guess that other frames are going to start having this issue as their head tubes get shorter too. (or fork designs will have to change)


It's a combination of factors, not just the length of the headtube, but also the angle between the downtube and headtube.

Other frames will have that problem (and it has always existed with different specific designs, being fork knobs hitting the downtube or otherwise) if it's overlooked when designing, but not a direct consequence of a short headtube.
The new Turner DHR-DW has quite a short headtube, yet it's not an issue there.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Evan55 said:


> how is a short head tube inferior?
> short head tube = lower front end = faster
> 
> Im going to guess that other frames are going to start having this issue as their head tubes get shorter too. (or fork designs will have to change)


The head tube's not a problem at all, the problem is down tube clearance. There are plenty of other frames with short head tubes and zero stack headsets that can take a Fox40 fine.

The problem is that Spesh haven't profiled their down tube right and the crowns of one of the three major downhill forks don't clear their downhill frame. That's why it's an inferior product. Or more specifically, it's bad form of Specialized not to up and tell anybody but to offer these ineffective bumpers as a solution.

Even just telling people to use a taller lower headset cup would solve the problem, it's a few millimetres, small enough that you could adjust the height difference out by mounting the stanchions a bit lower in the crowns. It doesn't need to be as bigger problem as Spesh have evidently made it.

Don't go hatin' the head tubes man.


----------



## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Fix the Spade said:


> Even just telling people to use a taller lower headset cup would solve the problem, it's a few millimetres, small enough that you could adjust the height difference out by mounting the stanchions a bit lower in the crowns. It doesn't need to be as bigger problem as Spesh have evidently made it.
> .


Taller headset will not solve the problem. Went to an external cup Cane Creek, and also tried a 1.5 king (both about 8mm extra stack). The 40 crown still hits the DT. this time it's the protrusion of the crown where the 5mm pinch bolts pinch the stanchion.


----------



## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Iceman2058 said:


> This is an issue because of the shape of the lower crown of the 40 (which is horizontal as opposed to downward sloping like on the Boxxer).


It actually slopes upwards, to give people a lower front ride height back in the days of external headsets and 1.125" head tubes.


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

Fix the Spade said:


> Or more specifically, it's bad form of Specialized not to up and tell anybody but to offer these ineffective bumpers as a solution.
> 
> Even just telling people to use a taller lower headset cup would solve the problem, it's a few millimetres, small enough that you could adjust the height difference out by mounting the stanchions a bit lower in the crowns. It doesn't need to be as bigger problem as Spesh have evidently made it.
> 
> Don't go hatin' the head tubes man.


Taller lower headset cups do NOT make Fox 40 forks fit any differently. That is why it has not been communicated as an option.

By offering a Fox compatibility kit, isn't Specialized effectively "telling" their customers how to correctly install a Fox 40?

JC


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

JakeWake said:


> Taller lower headset cups do NOT make Fox 40 forks fit any differently. That is why it has not been communicated as an option.
> 
> By offering a Fox compatibility kit, isn't Specialized effectively "telling" their customers how to correctly install a Fox 40?
> 
> JC


You could say that, but when the bumpers don't work and the fork still causes damage when installed "correctly", then it's incompatible and should be stated as such. It wasn't and now his frame is f*cked up when he did exactly what specialized told him to do.


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

ccspecialized said:


> You could say that, but when the bumpers don't work and the fork still causes damage when installed "correctly", then it's incompatible and should be stated as such. It wasn't and now his frame is f*cked up when he did exactly what specialized told him to do.


You are absolutely correct. Every early adopter of the Demo who installed a Fox 40 fork deserves to be notified that an upgrade is available.

Boomslang


----------



## jut8 (Jul 10, 2006)

So to sum it up, if we install the steerer tube spacer included with the frame for the 40, and the new bumpers, we are good to go?


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

jut8 said:


> So to sum it up, if we install the steerer tube spacer included with the frame for the 40, and the new bumpers, we are good to go?


That is correct.

Jason C/Boomslang/FSCzar


----------



## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

another solution:

1 - cut old manitou or rockshox fork bumper in half
2 - zip tie to forks
3 - you are done


----------



## transition-rich (Feb 13, 2008)

I wouldnt want to spend a load of g's on a sweet frame and fork like a demo and a 40 to then have to use a ghetto as fook solution like that!


----------



## CorollaRWD (Nov 25, 2008)

tuumbaq said:


> So correct me if Im wrong but it appears that you cannot run any other fork than the BoXXers ( and possibly 888, Dorados ???) on that frame .Neither can you run ANYTHING else than the stock RC4...no DB, no Elka, BOS and not even the RS yet( which to me is the most laughable thing ever since the development on this thing was done on a RS shock)


http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6133548/
Vivid adapters are available from Specialized as well.


----------



## jut8 (Jul 10, 2006)

CorollaRWD said:


> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6133548/
> Vivid adapters are available from Specialized as well.


That is actually my bike! Thats a cane creek double barrel on there, not a vivid.


----------



## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

CorollaRWD said:


> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6133548/
> Vivid adapters are available from Specialized as well.


Isn't it just universal?
Given that all eyelets have the same thickness, that is.


----------



## jut8 (Jul 10, 2006)

hafnz said:


> Isn't it just universal?
> Given that all eyelets have the same thickness, that is.


You have the right thinking with the thickness, but on some shocks the rebound adjuster gets in the way of it sliding in far enough, i know this was the case with the Elka.


----------



## CorollaRWD (Nov 25, 2008)

Nice Bike. 

I was showing you can fit a CCDB and saying you can also get Vivid adapters from Specialized as well.


----------



## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

Those look like more than dents.


----------



## drinkwat (Mar 17, 2008)

Yeah, i would be pissed in spesh didn't own up to getting me a new frame.


----------



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

drinkwat said:


> Yeah, i would be pissed in spesh didn't own up to getting me a new frame.


they offered. i spend tons of hours clear braing that frame. Didnt really want to go through that again. they offered to do something nice for me next year when upgrade time comes around. If that works out well im sure you'll be hearing me sing praises of specialized all season ....we'll see.


----------



## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

Fix the Spade said:


> So, the issue is Spesh have put out an inferior product and not told anybody. If they're going to do that they should have put it in writing that you can't run 40s, or need to use a taller headset or... something. Not saying anything then looking surprised when damaged frames come back isn't a great advert.


The Issue is Specialized designed a bike to be used specifically with SRAM´s (Rock Shox) Boxxer. Great bike, and frame, but you want to ride it? you have to buy a Boxxer. Big business.

BUT what for all of us who dont like Boxxers? I actually like Marzocchi´s 888, or in any case... a Fox 40!

As of this moment we are almost in 2013 and this was no mistake, they have changed nothing in this regard in the 2012 and 2013 Demos.

Badly done Specialized! :nono:


----------



## jut8 (Jul 10, 2006)

My 2013 carbon demo works fine with the standard fox 40 bumpers, no special bumpers needed


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

cesalec said:


> As of this moment we are almost in 2013 and this was no mistake, they have changed nothing in this regard in the 2012 and 2013 Demos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JakeWake (Mar 4, 2005)

cesalec said:


> As of this moment we are almost in 2013 and this was no mistake, they have changed nothing in this regard in the 2012 and 2013 Demos.


Specialized has offered a Fox 40 specific bumper kit since the bike was first introduced. That seems like a solution to me.

Marzocchi is compatible with their stock bumpers.

JC


----------



## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

jut8 said:


> My 2013 carbon demo works fine with the standard fox 40 bumpers, no special bumpers needed


aluminum to carbon comparison??????


----------

