# Best way to degrease and clean rear cassette/drivetrain



## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I bought some CRC-C56 (WD40) to clean my bike cassette and gear system. I sprayed some on and used a tooth brush to try and get rid of black old oils and gunk off but it didnt work great... It got a tiny but off the 5th or 6th ring but not much. I want to try make it like new. What would be the best way to do so? Got some Kitchen Degreasers also. Seemed to clean the chain alright. 

Please move thread if in wrong section...

Thanks.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

This forum is a good choice. WD-40 is not a lubricant, nor an especially good cleaner. It's actual and best purpose is to displace water (WD = water displacement). For cleaning chains and cogs, there are an array of degreasers, plus home products like simple green, lestoil, or simple dish soap. You can use a little on a brush to scrub the grunge off, then rinse with water (low pressure, avoid hubs and bearings). Re-lube the chain and you're good to go. For a really thorough cleaning, remove the chain and/or cassette, put into a plasic bowl of soapy hot water and scrub away. For routine maintenance of a not-to-dirty chain, simply re-lubing the entire chain then wiping off is usually sufficient. If you search in the forum for "chain cleaning" you should find lots more info.


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## ProjectDan35 (Jul 19, 2010)

I pull my cassette off, throw it in a bucket of Simple Green ( I use Grease Lightning ), throw the chain in soda bottle, with some cleaner, shake it, do a couple cycles of that until its clean, rinse in water, Same goes for cassette, not much scrubbing is needed if it soaks in cleaner for 10min.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I just did an overhaul of my whole drivetrain and this is what I did...

I took off the crank, remove the chainrings, bash guard and pedals, soak the rings, arm and bolts in a degreaser called TSP, for mechanic stuff, and scrub everything with a paintbrush, then wipe them off a bit and transfer to the bathroom sink where I fill it half with hot water and dish soap and with a clean toothbrush, remove the excess that remains and completely remove any trace of the degreaser, then rinse everything off and wipe them dry...

Then I did the same for front der, that I disassemble all the way I could, screws, springs, lockpins, washers, etc, and did the same treatment as I did with the crank.

Then same for rer der.

Then for the cassette, I took it apart and cleaned every single cogs and spacers the same way I did for the other parts.

Then for the chain, I will simply wipe it off the best I can, then soak it in the degreaser (or simple green could be better for the chain), scrub scrub scrub, then take it to the sink and scrub again to remove the grimes and solid dirt, then rinse it, then wipe it, then let it dry the best you can.

Once everything is clean and dry, I start reassembling everything while lubing the bushings, bearings, shafts, everything that need to be lubed or was lubed before, but just be careful not to overlube, because you will get dirt back in real quick. Once everything is lubed, I put everything back on, then the chain on, a few drops of oil on the chain, run it while holding the chain between my fingers to spread the oil, then if it get dry too quick, add a few more drops of oil, then repeat process.

But please be careful to take note of how everything was assemble when you take it apart, like the side up/side down of the parts, order and how they hold together...

While everything is off the bike, I also give the frame a little cleaning... The goal of the operation is to remove all dirt from the system, otherwise it's not worth to clean only the cassette and not the derailleurs or crank, because dirt will still be there and will get back in real quick.

If you don't waste your time, everything can be done in a day and be ready to ride next day. Since my rear wheel is a the shop, I've been taking my time over 1 week, because I also repainted some parts during the process...

If your chain is almost new, don't degrease it, just wipe off the dirt.

Good dirt,

David


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*^^This^^*



Gasp4Air said:


> This forum is a good choice. WD-40 is not a lubricant, nor an especially good cleaner. It's actual and best purpose is to displace water (WD = water displacement). For cleaning chains and cogs, there are an array of degreasers, plus home products like simple green, lestoil, or simple dish soap. You can use a little on a brush to scrub the grunge off, then rinse with water (low pressure, avoid hubs and bearings). Re-lube the chain and you're good to go. For a really thorough cleaning, remove the chain and/or cassette, put into a plasic bowl of soapy hot water and scrub away. For routine maintenance of a not-to-dirty chain, simply re-lubing the entire chain then wiping off is usually sufficient. If you search in the forum for "chain cleaning" you should find lots more info.


Good advice.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm usually too lazy. But when I do clean a cassette, I use a folded-over rag to get between the cogs. It should be thick enough to be a tight squeeze. That does a pretty good job for me.

My usual attitude is that my drivetrain will immediately get dirty the next time I take the bike out. I wipe down the chain and during the summer I use a dry lube so it doesn't pick up too much dirt. I wipe off the gunk that collects on the jockey wheels on my derailleur. And if there are clumps caught in my cassette, I pick them out with a zip tie. I decided a long time ago that more thorough cleanings are more time than I want to spend on the task, and I think it makes more sense for me just to do a quick clean after every ride, so not too much stuff collects. I still spend a little more time on the cassette and crank when I replace a chain, and if I've taken the cassette off for some reason, I'll clean it up before I put it back on. But with how little time it takes me to re-dirty my drivetrain - meh. I'd spend more time cleaning the bike than riding it.

I've found that by not overlubricating, I don't collect nearly as much dirt in the first place. So that's part of my approach.


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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> My usual attitude is that my drivetrain will immediately get dirty the next time I take the bike out.


I have the same attitude. Except that it extends to my entire bike. 

I will wipe down an area I'm working on. Other than that I just try to keep gunk from accumulating, also.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

For me, I kinda feel like your bike appearance is related to your appearance... A little bit like your car, or even more personnal, like your hair... Btw, we leave all the "beater", commuter, etc dirty for life bike out of that post subject.

Let's say you got your nice Jeep Wrangler all jacked up with big tires and all the bling... Unless you want to look like a dirty badboy, you won't leave it all dirty after a muddy ride, because then people won't see you like a nice guy, they will think more like if you are a "farmer" (no offense to the farmers here).

But then if you go by the carwash and have (pretty much all) the mud gone, then people will look at you like you are a responsible guy who take care of his possessions and is a cool guy to hang out with, because you propably also have a good personnal hygiene, so with the hairs...

But then, did you ever try to make good impression when you arrive a a party and you're already drunk ?

Well that's the same. Enjoy, but clean after, otherwise you look kinda weird.

Now please don't go crazy over this post, it's not how everybody should be or are. Just a dramatization.

And also a clean bike will last much longer then a partial cleaned bike...

And cleaning his bikes is good for the soul too. And you never totally own a perfect relationship with a bike until you have taken each single parts and screw off, cleaned and put them back together... Almost like your baby... It will never feel like yours unless you're the one who made it up and growed it.

David


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Go to an auto parts store or home depot and buy a brass brush. It's a lot stiffer than a toothbrush but softer metal than the cassette.

To simplify maintenance I actually bought a chain cleaner. Makes cleaning the chain every ride much easier. The I hit the cassette with the brass brush, clean the chain and relube- 5 minutes at most.

This is the one I have, works pretty well
Finish Line Chain Cleaner Kit at REI.com


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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

David, I wasn't going to say anything until I read this...



David C said:


> And also a clean bike will last much longer then a partial cleaned bike...


Please elaborate on your thoughts...


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Foam degreasers that can sit on the cassette for a while are the best. If you have an air compressor you can really just hit everything with degreaser, hit it with the air compressor and then use a rag to for the chain. Then just hit it with lube and wipe off the excess.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

I been using finish line degreaser and just started trying triflow degreaser. I find it so much easier to use a good degreaser than simple green. With the degreaser Im not doing any kind of scrubbing. The dirt/grime just rinses off and sometimes I dont even wipe it off. When I tried simple green I would run it on the cog a couple times, scrub, pour more simple green, then wipe. 

I was told to never use wd40 spray or anything with pressure by LBS because it can force dirt in the bearings.


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## TXDesertRacer (Aug 15, 2011)

Dirt/mud draws moisture from the air. Even if it never rains, or gets wet, metal will rust with dirt on it.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

*You asked for...*



TXDesertRacer said:


> Dirt/mud draws moisture from the air. Even if it never rains, or gets wet, metal will rust with dirt on it.


True. But you need to remember that aluminum don't rust, it oxide, and oxidation can be a lot worst than rust, since the chemical reaction is not visible as much as rust is, and then create big material degradation over the year, because you won't see it and then not do anything to prevent it... But this apple pretty much only in saltwater, and more particular on boats... Since the bike is not subject to this kind of environment as much as a boat is, it's ok...

But since rust is the iron reaction to oxygen, in many case, a good layer of dry dirt over a bare iron piece will prevent total rust at its surface, but will also prevent you from noticing any rusting that can occur when the dirt get moisture, and even more if you rise in light rain with your bike having already dried out dirt, the dirt will get the moisture and keep it... But then again, it's a process that can take 2-3 years, since the steel grade used in the bike industry is good (not always, but). So that gets me to the second point...



marpilli said:


> David, I wasn't going to say anything until I read this...
> Please elaborate on your thoughts...


Well, fairly simple. Since a bike is made out of moving parts, those parts needs bushing or bearings. A bushing is made by the theory of a shaft hold in place by a bushing, which are both very tight fitted (normally) and have extremely polished contact surface to reduce friction during the movement. Bearings are base on the bushing theory, but the main shaft is hold in place by a bushing that rely on small metal balls, often steel, hardened steel or stainless steel. This is in the case of a cartridge bearing. Now that both system relies on the polished surface to minimize friction trough the rotation, they however must be lubed to help heat absorption and reduce the friction even more. Since a 100% hermetic seal device can only be assured by the continuous contact of 2 edges, this then include another point of friction when the assembly is moving. Since seals are lubed, the friction is minimal, but with time, the seals lube can dry away or decompose because of the heat and friction. When then the seals are not anymore lube properly, the friction start building up heat and can damage the seals contact edges, by having dirt entering the assembly and slowly making its way to the bearing/bushing assembly, which can cause wear to the contact surface and by then add friction and finally lead to a complete failure of the system, or a need to replace parts to ensure the minimal friction again.

Now this is a dramatization based on a time span of only a few years depending on the part, which can be only less then 10 full hours of dirt riding for a fork, maybe 20 for a wheel hub, 50 for a frame pivot, 20 for pedals, 1 for a chain, 5 for a derailleur pulley, 10 for a headset and 20 for a bottom bracket.

Those example above are average, and higher end product may last longer, as the lower end one last shorter.

Now, you might think that all this is annual maintenance stuff, and there is no way you will let those parts with maintenance for 5 years. But what you need to know is that every time your bike get dirt, all the dirt that is not removed from those kind of area will stay there and start the damage process immediately.

By removing as much dirt as possible, you can prevent the premature wear and then reduce the number of parts of each component that you will have to change each year when you do a full maintenance...

That's how a clean bike can last longer then a partially cleaned one... if we do not replace anything, even during the annual maintenance.

But since bike are like cars, they won't fall apart because you did not clean it this week, but they might not last in a trouble free way like a cleaned one would do. They can handle dirt, but they can also hands you high bills.

Now real life example for those who've read trough all this sh1t... (blame Marpilli)

My lil' brother got a year 2000 GT XCR 3000 for it birthday and the bike was almost like new condition. Almost like new condition because last week he went to the lbs for cleaning the i-Drive system, which was running great, just regular maintenance since we didn't know when the previous owner did the last tune-up. So at the lbs, everything was running fine, the guy open it, clean the parts, etc... then he looked closer and saw that the bearing crown have started damaging the i-Drive's bearing race because of dirt that build up over time and since this cannot be solve by only changing the bearing (because the races were damaged too), we end up ordering all the parts, for a total of $150... I think that i_drive should normally be cleaned every 10 full hours of ride or so. It did not and failed during the annual maintenance, with high cost. But the drive-train is pretty awesome still.

So I said, clean the damn bike the best you can each time, even if you can't get all the dirt off, do it the best you can... Not every body love cleaning and wrenching like I do, and very often we are quite tired after a good day of riding and have to get to work on the next day, but if you want a reliable bike with trouble-free riding, then do it the right way. Unless you have plenty cash to spend and have a lbs on speed dial to take care of all your need. I don't. But I go my lbs on speed dial 

And guess who had a nice trouble-free winter of daily commuting on his full suspension bike ?

Now Marpilli, is this elaborate enough or should I start on the chain deterioration process that take place as soon as you install the chain ?

Thanks,

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks for the good advice guys.

I did spray some CRC into the inside of the cranks into the frame where the cranks attach... Is that alright? 

I sprayed the cassette, derailleur, chain with CRC. After spraying, how would I go about getting all the old oils, grease, gunk off the parts? I have a chain lube to use after. Should I scrub it down with a brass brush or similar? 

Want to try make it similar to new. The LBS did do it over a year ago when the bike was serviced and made it look really good and was smooth..etc.

Can add pictures if needed.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> Thanks for the good advice guys.
> 
> I did spray some CRC into the inside of the cranks into the frame where the cranks attach... Is that alright?
> 
> ...


Use that stuff right here (pic in a second) and the method I stated at my first post and you will have a complete drive train in like new condition and as good as it could ever work.

Just be ready to spend about a day (you work on it for a few hours, but don't expect to go do something else meanwhile, or it will take you another day to finish the job) like I said, depending on how much dirt is there.

You will need a crank puller, about $12, to remove the crank, then a chain tool to remove the chain (unless you have a quick link or something like that), and a bunch of metric Allen key, mostly 3, 4, 5, 6, 8... Then you might consider a cassette removing tool if your cassette is not removed yet (another $12). Then also a 15mm wrench to remove the pedals, then a cable cutter to cut the cable's end to remove the rear derailleur (but check first if you need to cut the cable and if so, cut it close as possible to the cable end to have enough cable left)...

Then Youtube is your friend to get info on how to exactly clean each derailleur, because I'm not gonna explain it all again...

Now let me get a pic.

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Don't really want to go and remove all those parts, just want a quick way of doing it without removing everything.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well, 1 simple solution is :

BRING THAT BIKE TO THE LBS AND GIVE THEM MONEY TO DO THE DIRTY WORK.

simple, no ?

Now please excuse me, but I got other things to do now.

David


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Ok, I will be nice (and also because when I went to take the pics, you wrote that post about being lazy for the job you ask us tips on how to do it and don't spray that stuff all over the place, WD-40 won't do any good, and you better remove it before I damage everything) and I will post pics of the degreaser I use and some of the custom painting I did on some parts while I've had them all cleaned up...

David


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I feel like there are, broadly, two kinds of mountain bikers.

The ones whose bikes look like this










and the ones whose bikes look like this.










That is all.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I feel like there are, broadly, two kinds of mountain bikers.
> 
> The ones whose bikes look like this
> 
> ...


Hey !

My bike isn't pink... It called : "salmon red" and it look very mainly... And the little bell ring is really fun on the trail...

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

By 'simple' I mean not pulling the whole drivetrain apart because I probably wont be able to put it back together. Even the LBS didn't do a job as good as that. Maybe ill try and soak the der in some kitchen degreaser stuff and spray it with CRC to get rid of the gunk. Oh and its a SHIMANO DEORE LX rear der.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I feel like there are, broadly, two kinds of mountain bikers.
> 
> and the ones whose bikes look like this.


Well, at least it isn't wearing a sweater. That would be in questionable taste.

Fortunately for other dogs, they won't see this poor beast as humans see it.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Gasp4Air said:


> Well, at least it isn't wearing a sweater. That would be in questionable taste.
> 
> Fortunately for other dogs, they won't see this poor beast as humans see it.


So that's why the dog don't give a **** about my pink, eh my red bike.

Can you get the douch-bag spectrum chart too ? look like they can't see that v-collar tee's and pinky/baby blue clothes are not supposed to be wore by men... Just sayin'

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Photos attached. Will try and remove some by using a rag and CRC to remove the gunk in an hour. Any technique I should try without pulling the thing apart?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Dirty bike...

First wipe out the frame to work in a clean environment

second : Wipe off every other parts

third : Run the chain and derailleur pulleys trough a rag to remove the excess of oil.

quatro : Since you shoot everything with loose nuts spray you will have to take the whole thing apart to clean it off, because WD-40 will make everything rust and then jam again in a few hours...

then reinstall, relube a bit and enjoy.

BTW, brand and model please ?

Thanks,

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Bike: Apollo Ascent 2008

- Was meant to come with Hydraulic Brakes, Remote lockout, different seat but was downgraded on half price sale. Just put some BB5's on to replace the Promax brakes.

Read on other threads on this site that WD-40 can be used as a degreaser. 

I dont have a chain tool or crank tool for now so will just try a rag and kitchen degreaser.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Ok...

Now here's some pics of my pinky bike drive train that has been installed this summer and has more then 100 miles on it on dusty riding...

Yours should be like this once cleaned up. And it should stay like it unless every ride you do involve soaking your bike in a mud pit and then riding on the beach... You get the picture ?

I will repeat this thing all over again :

Get a crank puller, pull the crank out.
Get a chain tool, remove the chain.
Take the derailleurs off (just trace the contour of the front der on the frame with a pencil for easy realignment when you install it back).
Get the TSP stuff and soak the crank in it.
Remove the rear wheel.
Take a toothbrush and (be careful not to drop the stuff over the wheel) and scrub the cassette. Rinse it off gentle with water.
Take the crank out of the degreaser and scrub the dirt off, then rinse it.
Put the chain in the same bucket of degreaser and let it soak for 2-4 minutes. Then shake it around, then scrub it to remove the dirt between the plates, then wipe it off with a rag, rinse it, scrub again to remove the max dirt, rinse it, wipe it, hang it dry.
Wipe off the derailleurs.
Go get some sleep.

Then put everything back on, put the chain on, add ONLY a few drops of wet oil on the chain, run the chain while holding it between your finger to spread the oil. Clean your hands. 
Adjust the derailleurs.
If the chain is noisy, add only a few more drops and run the chain again between your finger till it's dry. You don't want to have a wet chain. You want a dry chain without noise.

Go riding.

Thread closed.

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Cool, Will look at doing it next weekend. Spent an hour doing it today, got a lot off, still visible but runs much smoother.

When I was lubricating the forks, some spray somehow got onto the rotor without me knowing. I went for a quick test and... brilliant, my front brake is now officially screwed... and I changed the pads 2 months ago ($35). I just put some nail polish remover on the rotor and will have to try burning the pads at some stage. They now suck.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I will be pulling the whole thing apart soon (Hope I can put it back together), and will buy this tool kit:UNION Bike Tool Set - Torpedo7 (My friend will sell me his for cheap). Is it good enough to do the job well enough?

Can't find any Simple Green here in NZ, so thinking of soaking the chain, Cassette, Der. all in Kerosene or Petrol.... Will that do a good job?

Looking at the cost of a full service, $79, I can do it myself for $80 

Thanks.


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

Put your parts in a parts washer (automotive shops have them) with mineral spirits, let dry relube, then put back together.
If you want to avoid this again, use Finishline Ceramic Wax, the stuff works great, you'll have to wax more often, I reapply after 20 to 40 miles, let sit then wipe off the chain, leaving the Ceramic wax in the chain not on the chain, keeps things clean, you only need a Park pick/brush to clean your cassette every once in awhile, Happy Trails


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## 1362 (Sep 12, 2010)

JUST FYI, 
the time half you people spent reading these posts, you could have had your elbows greased up and finished the job. 
There is nothing wrong with caring for your bike, now and then I may even wax the frame. Most the time I back my truck in driveway and wash that bike while it is still on the car rack. That means when I have to re align the hanger it is clean to do so and I do not have bricks of clay all over the floor , and I can clean my chain with a nice application of Rock Roll lube and wipe it off and 90% prime time done in 10 minutes.
I have seen 30 minutes spent getting hardened mud out of cassettes, shifter nooks only to still not get those pieces of brick clay out and wonder why it is not shifting correctly. That is wasting time. Wash it and lube it, you have to inspect it before your next ride anyway, might as well do it now while it is clean.....


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## PoPo (May 16, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> I will be pulling the whole thing apart soon (Hope I can put it back together), and will buy this tool kit:UNION Bike Tool Set - Torpedo7 (My friend will sell me his for cheap). Is it good enough to do the job well enough?
> 
> Can't find any Simple Green here in NZ, so thinking of soaking the chain, Cassette, Der. all in Kerosene or Petrol.... Will that do a good job?
> 
> ...


I'm from NZ myself, and have bought the Torpedo7 degreaser, which works pretty well for cheap.. TORPEDO7 Bike Degreaser - 500ml - Torpedo7 they also sell cassette removal tools for cheaper than that entire kit.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Remove chain and cassette. Rinse in sink (basement sink ftw!) Fill old jar with some degreaser and hot water or whatever your degreaser calls for. Shake and let sit awhile. Spray cassette with some degreaser/water mix.

Meanwhile remove cranks/BB. Wipe off chainrings, clean out BB, little bit of grease where necessary. Reinstall. Wipe rear derailleur pulleys. Remove if necessary to clean better. Shoot some compressed air at front derailleur. Clean dirt off freehub.

Rinse off cassette/chain. I usually will scrub a little between the links at this point and then rinse. A real scrub-brush works better than an old toothbrush. Perhaps a more powerful degreaser wouldn't require this.

Dry with towel and then with compressor. A compressor is an awesome tool for bike maintenance! Reinstall cassette with greased lockring.

Put wheel on, install chain and apply your favorite lube.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

PoPo said:


> I'm from NZ myself, and have bought the Torpedo7 degreaser, which works pretty well for cheap.. TORPEDO7 Bike Degreaser - 500ml - Torpedo7 they also sell cassette removal tools for cheaper than that entire kit.


My friends selling me the same kit for under half price so might as well get the whole lot off him. Will the Torp7 degreaser be enough to do the whole drive train, or any other non diluted products out there?

The chain is a KMC 'Z'. Is it any good, and will the chain break if I use the chain tool on it as some cheap chains do break.


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## PoPo (May 16, 2011)

Yeah theres a decent amount of degreaser, just use it sparingly, it's a spray nozzle, so make sure to take cassette off before spraying or you could get it in your hub bearings.


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## buckchoi (Nov 1, 2009)

I take the cassette and chain off and use a citrus based degreaser. Much easier on the nose than petroluem based products and it seems to work just fine. I spray it on and just use an old toothbrush to scrub.

I then re-lubricate using purple extreme.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I just realized that the LBS installed a SRAM powerlink so I don't need a chain tool. Took the chain off, got a small bucket, filled an inch high with kerosene, and the chain is currently sitting in their. I'm going to leave it overnight ; Interesting to see what the results will be like..


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## timk125 (Jun 28, 2010)

I soaked my cassette in gasoline. Worked pretty freaking well.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

My parts look just like David's, yet I never take anything apart!

I just clean thoroughly after avery ride with a plastic-bristled hand and nail brush; and then lube with A.T.B. lube (hard to find, but well worth it. It attracts no grime at all. Works wonders in all conditions. Stands for Absolutely The Best, and is made by Keith Lewis Enterprises)

A caveat: I live in a dry clime, and rarely ride in mud.


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## Mattlikestobike (Nov 1, 2010)

For me.. 
for the first 20 bike rides, i generally use a cloth, and go inbetween the gears.

After those 20, i generally take off the cassette, take it apart, and soak it in simplegreen while scrubbing. Looks brand new, and shifts insanely well.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Took the chain out of the kerosene, still looked pretty much the same as before. Started brushing with a wire brush, then everything started coming off. Took an hour for both sides of the chain. It is now silver and new looking. Light lube, and everything's running better. 

Once I get the tool kit, I will do the cassette, cranks...etc...

Will post some pics later.


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## unstuckpilgrim (Nov 29, 2005)

David C said:


> And you never totally own a perfect relationship with a bike until you have taken each single parts and screw off, cleaned and put them back together... Almost like your baby... It will never feel like yours unless you're the one who made it up and growed it.
> 
> David


I never take my children apart as a strict matter of policy. I do like to clean my bikes though.


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I feel like there are, broadly, two kinds of mountain bikers.
> 
> The ones whose bikes look like this
> 
> ...


Good analogy.:thumbsup:

I keep my drivetrain 'functionally clean' by wiping it down after every ride, taking a toothbrush knocking any chunks out of the cluster and using some chain oil when things look too dry.

...and though it isn't 'drivetrain' I use alcohol wipes at the same time and clean the rotors. I have Avid CRs and don't have any noise issues.

Btw, these things are called mountain bikes. They are meant to get dirty


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

CarolinaLL6 said:


> Btw, these things are called mountain bikes. They are meant to get dirty


But dirt is so much better looking when its fresh 

That's why I make sure each one of my bike always get fresh dirt, and not old disgusting dirt.

:thumbsup:


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I did say I was going to post a picture so here it is (Sorry for bad quality)...

---

Off topic, but when the quick release is done up at a good amount of tension, same as front, the wheel would come to the side and start rubbing the frame... It seems that the der. hanger is worn on the QR side. Would replacing it fix the problem? The QR has to be done up very hard while making sure the wheel sits in the middle of the frame at the same time, and pushing downward pressure on the wheel to make it sit straight.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> I did say I was going to post a picture so here it is (Sorry for bad quality)...
> 
> ---
> 
> Off topic, but when the quick release is done up at a good amount of tension, same as front, the wheel would come to the side and start rubbing the frame... It seems that the der. hanger is worn on the QR side. Would replacing it fix the problem? The QR has to be done up very hard while making sure the wheel sits in the middle of the frame at the same time, and pushing downward pressure on the wheel to make it sit straight.


Check the QR's counter bolt to be straight, same for the QR skewer axle. It might be bent at the end, where the threaded part is. It's common to happen to cheap axle, since the metal isn't strong enough to hold on to the clamp force... I had a few QR axle doing it and getting a better one has fix the problem. Anything equal or less to Deore level won't make it much... Better get your hands on LX or higher quality QR skewer.

And also, what I do is I put the wheel into the frame first, then turn the frame to let it sit on the wheel, and simply re clamp the QR to the proper tension. Having the bike sitting on the wheels will make it lot easier to adjust... And normally the wheel should get centered pretty good at the rear by sitting all the way in the drop-outs... For the fork, it's a bit of eye-bulling, but if you are having problems, then something's not right with either your frame/fork or axle/hub...

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm pretty sure everything is straight, but I'll check today. I actually use to have a black quick release. I swapped it with an older bikes quick release (possibly 6 years + old) and the problem happened less, but don't know if it's the QR or the der. hanger, it does seem pretty worn. If I put heaps of pressure on the pedals when QR is only done up same as front tension, then the QR slides down and leaves a gap between the der hanger and QR bolt itself. I'll borrow my friends QR and see if there's any difference...


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> I'm pretty sure everything is straight, but I'll check today. I actually use to have a black quick release. I swapped it with an older bikes quick release (possibly 6 years + old) and the problem happened less, but don't know if it's the QR or the der. hanger, it does seem pretty worn. If I put heaps of pressure on the pedals when QR is only done up same as front tension, then the QR slides down and leaves a gap between the der hanger and QR bolt itself. I'll borrow my friends QR and see if there's any difference...


You can get some nice XT QR off eBay for not much $$...

Ti ones are for the WW, so go with Steel or also Cr-Mo I think now.

6 years old good QR is better then new crap one...

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay, thanks David. I'll look into a QR that's deore LX or above. 

The original skewer that came on the bike is on the other bike and the other bike doesn't seem to have any issues... But i'm sure it's still junk.

Also seeing that they don't even make any good 8 speed shifters, ill just make the jump to 9 speed with a new cassette, new chain, new shifters (der is already 9 speed). Would Deore LX or just Deore be alright for crisp smooth,quick shifting?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Also SRAM X9 skewer are good too.

New SRAM X.9 Stainless Steel MTB Skewers Black | eBay










David


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> Okay, thanks David. I'll look into a QR that's deore LX or above.
> 
> The original skewer that came on the bike is on the other bike and the other bike doesn't seem to have any issues... But i'm sure it's still junk.
> 
> Also seeing that they don't even make any good 8 speed shifters, ill just make the jump to 9 speed with a new cassette, new chain, new shifters (der is already 9 speed). Would Deore LX or just Deore be alright for crisp smooth,quick shifting?


If you're gonna change up everything, my vote goes to SRAM, and seeing you plan on staying to the Deore level, then X-7 is a great value for the price, equivalent to Deore LX, but less expensive. Or you can go to X-9, but it's a bit more expensive. I'd say for recreational MTB, X-7 got you pretty cover and it's not too expensive to replace if you crash. And yes, for 8 speed shifters, you can use the SRAM X-4 for SRAM rd or the SRAM Attack, which is the same as the X-4, but compatible with the Shimano rd. And seriously, it would be lot less expensive to buy those shifters and throw them away when they are done then switching everything to 9 speed...

But it's your budget... I suggest you just run that 8 speed setup till it's done and then get a 9 speed one, or buy a 9 speed one and try to sell this one to offset the cost, but you won't get much money for it anyway, so you better keep your 8 spd running till it's dead.

I run 8 spd on all my bikes, since they came stock with it or it was the less expensive way to go. I don't miss 1 gear anyway and I still have money to upgrade something else that really worth it.

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay, Well shifting is quite poor, maybe it's the adjustment, but the shifters are absolute rubbish (EF50 with levers cut off lol). The chain even comes off when doing small jumps. What shifters can I get for now, that are Shimano 8 speed compatible that will improve my performance considerably before I switch to 9 speed? Was looking at alivios at first but reviews say they are rubbish.

Also my other bike with a Shimano Tourney, and a new original shifters feel smoother and much faster shifting on the left gear (recently replaced with EF30/40)... You click it once and it already moves up super fast and not too hard, compared with my other ones which you have to apply a lot of pressure and time for it to shift up.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> Okay, Well shifting is quite poor, maybe it's the adjustment, but the shifters are absolute rubbish (EF50 with levers cut off lol). The chain even comes off when doing small jumps. What shifters can I get for now, that are Shimano 8 speed compatible that will improve my performance considerably before I switch to 9 speed? Was looking at alivios at first but reviews say they are rubbish.
> 
> Also my other bike with a Shimano Tourney, and a new original shifters feel smoother and much faster shifting on the left gear (recently replaced with EF30/40)... You click it once and it already moves up super fast and not too hard, compared with my other ones which you have to apply a lot of pressure and time for it to shift up.


Get the SRAM Attack shifters. Since Shimano and SRAM shifters are compatible for front der, you will simply have a X-4 with a cable actuation length modified to fit Shimano rd. But they are the same as the X-4.

David


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

bikeman1 said:


> Okay, Well shifting is quite poor, maybe it's the adjustment, but the shifters are absolute rubbish (EF50 with levers cut off lol). *The chain even comes off when doing small jumps.* What shifters can I get for now, that are Shimano 8 speed compatible that will improve my performance considerably before I switch to 9 speed? Was looking at alivios at first but reviews say they are rubbish.


This isn't a shifter problem.

What gear combination are you in when you're hitting this stuff? I find it helps to be in a larger chain ring. It raises the tension in the whole system. If you have extra links in your chain, removing them helps. If you don't use your large chain ring, consider replacing it with a bash guard so you can shorten your chain even more.

IME, as long as I'm not in my small chain ring, I don't throw my chain that badly to the inside. At worst, it ends up on the small chain ring, and shifts back up when I pedal. If my front derailleur is tuned correctly, which it generally is,  I don't throw my chain to the outside. Having a bash guard should almost completely eliminate that possibility anyway.

From Google Shopping, it looks like pickings are getting slim for 8-speed shifters. I saw some nice ones on EBay, but that was $115 - hardly cheap. Or there's Alivio for $40. Which would be silly, when Deore 9-speed are kicking around for the same price.

I had Alivio shifters for a few years, and they did the job. I really like the shorter throws that my current 9-speed LX shifters have. The extra cog from 8 to 9... meh. 9 to 10 on my road bike was nice, though. Rambling aside, I think if you decide to throw money at your shifters, Deore 9-speed are probably going to be the best bang for the buck. But I think it would be pointless to do that until you get your bike to actually work, and I don't think shifters are part of that.

Also, in the picture it looked like you had a megarange cog. Count 'em - are you sure there's eight? Looks like a 7-speed freewheel to me, which prevents you from upgrading without replacing your rear wheel. Also if you have a freewheel, check for a broken axle. It would explain the weirdness.

And FWIW, if I was to buy an aftermarket quick release skewer, it would be one of the Shimano ones.

Bicycle Quick-release Skewers


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

My current skewer doesn't seem bent.. I'll probably get the Sram Attack shifters.

When jumping i'm on left 3 and right 4 or 5.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> My current skewer doesn't seem bent.. I'll probably get the Sram Attack shifters.
> 
> When jumping i'm on left 3 and right 4 or 5.


Just take the skewer off the hub, and while holding the bolt in one hand, try to screw in the skewer with the other hand. If there is any deformation, you will feel it right away.

Then you might wanna give a look to your drop outs to be sure they are flat and not damages. Then before reinstalling the wheels, just take the skewers and clamp them on the drop-outs to see how they sit. Just be careful not to apply to much tension not to damage the drop-outs.

SRAM shifters will be good. And I think Shimano QR worth it better then SRAM QR...

David


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I don't know which way you're counting. Small chain ring, middle chain ring, or big chain ring? And which way does the chain fall off?

I wasn't talking about a bent skewer. I was suggesting that the actual axle might be damaged. But you should also have your derailleur hanger looked at. Although in the clearer pictures I see eight cogs, which would mean a cassette and a more durable hub. Weird that it has the Megarange badging. I guess that does go past 7-speed. 

Have you checked your chain for wear lately? I don't even bother trying to diagnose other drivetrain issues until I do that, and maybe clean and lube it.

How long have you had this bike? Did you get it new?


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Had the bike for 3 years now, bought new. Been used for mainly commuting, very little mountain bike. Haven't checked the chain wear. Chain comes off on the big, middle and small chain ring but pretty much happens on every gear... For the 9 speed compatibility, the chain does rub the frame when on small chain ring and gear 7 or 8. I think that is normal. I'll post pics of the der hanger tomorrow.


BTW... I got the cassette off with the tool, and only 2 cogs came off, then rest is a stack. It's being soaked in kerosene (Don't have anything else at the moment) and I'll leave it overnight and see how it goes... Then scrub like crazy like I did with the chain. My friend did it to his and his is now super clean and shiny.


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## PoPo (May 16, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> Okay, Well shifting is quite poor, maybe it's the adjustment, but the shifters are absolute rubbish (EF50 with levers cut off lol). The chain even comes off when doing small jumps. What shifters can I get for now, that are Shimano 8 speed compatible that will improve my performance considerably before I switch to 9 speed? Was looking at alivios at first but reviews say they are rubbish.
> 
> Also my other bike with a Shimano Tourney, and a new original shifters feel smoother and much faster shifting on the left gear (recently replaced with EF30/40)... You click it once and it already moves up super fast and not too hard, compared with my other ones which you have to apply a lot of pressure and time for it to shift up.


That's not the shifters problem, the shifter just moves the derailleur, so as long as the gears change correctly, then your shifters are fine. Your rear derailleur needs adjustment if the gears don't change smoothly/fast or the cable tension needs to be increased (barrel adjuster at derailleur).

If you don't have a work stand, flip your bike upside down, (put a cloth under handlebars to not scratch them). If the derailleur is slow to shift up, (to larger cog) the tension needs to increase. Turn the barrel adjuster counter clockwise. If it's slow to shift down, then decrease tension (clockwise). If the bike hasn't been tuned in a long time, then you likely need to increase tension, so turn the barrel adjuster counter clockwise. Turn the cranks and shift, if required, fine tune the shifting by turning the barrel adjuster either way. The cage should be relatively aligned with the cogs.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I kill chains fairly frequently. Maybe once a year on my more ridden bikes. I highly suggest you check your chain for wear. Even if you're not getting a lot of miles, commuting and mountain biking are both pretty dirty, which trashes mechanical systems.

Drivetrain problems that happen in all gear combinations are either the chain or everything. If you've let the chain go to long, the cassette and at least one chain ring are probably toast.

It's not normal for your chain to rub the frame. That should never happen. So something's wrong there.

Use this method to measure your chain.

Chain Maintenance

IME, filthy and worn out chains cause a lot of problems with shifting that people have, if they're not maintaining their chains and replacing them as necessary.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

So if i'm in the smallest chain ring on front, and largest cog on back, it should not rub against frame... This happens to a few bikes i have used also. Maybe the hub is not designed for 8 speed...I'll check the chain wear.


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## PoPo (May 16, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> So if i'm in the smallest chain ring on front, and largest cog on back, it should not rub against frame... This happens to a few bikes i have used also. Maybe the hub is not designed for 8 speed...I'll check the chain wear.


Do you mean it rubs on the front derailleur cage? That means you have to adjust the front derailleur.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

oh sorry, what am I on about... It rubs against the front der. cage. How would I go about adjusting that? Thanks for pointing that out PoPo.


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## PoPo (May 16, 2011)

There could be a host of reasons why it rubs on the derailleur cage. If you are running "extreme" gear combinations (cross chaining), then that can obviously cause rubbing, so i.e. 3 up front, and 1 at rear. Even on some bikes (like yours?), 1 on front, and (7-8) on rear can cause rubbing, but once again, that's cross chaining, and cross chaining will result in rubbing, and is normal, but not good 

First off, make sure the front derailleur is set at the correct height, that is *just* clearing the largest chainring (about 2mm above). Also, make sure the cage is parallel to the chainrings.

If the issue wasn't there when the bike was new, then the limit screws probably don't need adjustment as they tend to stay put once set, which leaves cable tension.

While in a gear that causes rubbing when it shouldn't, i.e. 1 front and 1 rear, adjust the barrel adjuster on the gear shifter (be careful not to strip the threads!). If the chain is rubbing on the outer side of the derailleur cage, you need to increase tension. This is the most likely scenario, since your bike is 3 years old, the cables will have stretched, and tension lost. Increase tension by turning the barrel adjuster counter clockwise until the rubbing stops. (You can do this while biking, so you can hear when the rubbing stops.)

If the derailleur rubs on the inner side of the cage, then you need to decrease tension (unlikely), do this by turning the barrel adjuster clockwise until rubbing stops. You may have to reseat the cable with the barrel adjuster screwed halfway to be able to decrease the tension.

Changing the tension will not stop rubbing due to cross chaining!

Park Tool to the rescue! - this guide is more in depth if I missed anything (or you need to adjust limit screws).
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments

For other MTBR's, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still a newbie! :thumbsup:


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Rubbing on the inside of the derailleur cage in small front/large back is either too much cable tension or the low limit screw is too far in. In either case, the Park Tool guide should have the fix.


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## djr8505 (Apr 23, 2008)

The method I use may not be do-able by most people.

I use a bath of mineral sprits and an ultrasonic cleaner. I DO NOT use the heat function though. That would be a bad idea.

After 1 to 2 cycles of cleaning even the thickest muddiest black grease is gone and the part is practically as clean as new.


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Fixed the gears, and no rubbing 

The wheel doesn't come out when the QR is done really tight and properly inside the dropouts. If it's loose, the wheel will go to one side and disc will be rubbing and shifting will not be proper. Is it alright to keep it like this or should I get a new QR soon? 

Also, i've cleaned the cassette now and it's not shiny but no more gunk on it. 

When I touch the chain it's still gets black marks on my fingers, even with a very light oil and wipe... Is that normal? 

Thanks..


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> Fixed the gears, and no rubbing
> 
> The wheel doesn't come out when the QR is done really tight and properly inside the dropouts. If it's loose, the wheel will go to one side and disc will be rubbing and shifting will not be proper. Is it alright to keep it like this or should I get a new QR soon?
> 
> ...


You QR should be possible to be close with a firm push of the palm of your hand. If it needs to be tighter then this in order to maintain the wheel straight, then you might wanna check wether your drop-outs are straight or if your hub have the right spacing, that the frame does not compress all the way to the hub when you clamp the QR. And maybe a better QR if it seems to hard to keep it in place.

As long as there's no dirt on the drive train, you're alright with your cassette.

Nope, having oil residues on the outside of your chain isn't normal. It means over lube. Wipe if off all the way in a rag till you get no more stains. Or just a little tiddly bit. Once you've clean and dry the chain (after degrease), you should only have to put a few drops of oil (I use Finish Line Wet Lube, the green bottle) and then run the chain into your fingers to feel the oil going inside the chain. Once you don't feel the oil anymore, check if the chain make noise when you shift or has difficulties to shift. If so, just add a drop or two and run it between your fingers again till you feel it's dry. But don't put more then 8-10 drops total. Then after a ride, you should get a dark mark if you touch the chain. It's because the oil is moving around the chain and making its way out. Just wipe it off the best you can and also do the rd pulleys. But don't lube it again unless you went into mud or rain. If only in dry conditions, lube it again when you have trouble shift (slow shifting) or when the chain is making squeaking noises. Over lube will attract dirt and get everything messy real fast.

David


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## bikeman1 (Jul 6, 2011)

What I did was get the lube and drop it over the whole chain and pedal a few times. Then wiped off the excess. I'll just get a cloth and wipe it all off and use the finger method. 

Is small rust on the surface of the chain alright? No rust in moving bits just on the outside of a link or 2.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bikeman1 said:


> What I did was get the lube and drop it over the whole chain and pedal a few times. Then wiped off the excess. I'll just get a cloth and wipe it all off and use the finger method.
> 
> Is small rust on the surface of the chain alright? No rust in moving bits just on the outside of a link or 2.


Well, don't add more lube after wiping off the chain if you already did. (well, you already did it in first place anyway)

Rust on the outer plate is ok as long as it's surface rust. Nothing to worry about in your case. All chain get rusty on the outside at one point. (there's specially coated chains for superior rust resistance, mostly for those who ride during winter time or in salty conditions, such as the shore line).

David


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

I used a super simple method that works really well. Just some Dawn dishsoap mixed with water in a spray bottle. I wet the bike down then spray a nice coat of dawn. After sitting for a few minutes I take an old tooth/scrub brush and hit the chain, cassette, chainrings and derailleurs. Dawn breaks down the grease and grime really well and leaves the parts looking good as new. Even the guys at my LBS like how good it cleans.

I'll try to take some before and afters to post up here.


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## El Cheap0 (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm about to clean my drive train. So do I take the entire cassette off to clean it? Or can I just wipe the gunk off with rag? Do I have to lube it? What about the front cassette? And I should clean my derailleurs too. Do I lube the jockey wheels on the rear? Thanks


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't get that picky with mine. I use Dawn dish soap. It get my cassette and chain looking new every time. Like someone here said, just give it a quick cleaning often and you won't have the built-up grime to deal with.


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## GelatiCruiser (Oct 11, 2012)

It's better to keep up than to catch up.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Ever try running wax lube, like White Lightning, or some other type of 'clean' lube? It's been years since I've degreased anything.


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## El Cheap0 (Mar 23, 2013)

Uh I don't know what you mean by "clean". I use prolink progold


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## El Cheap0 (Mar 23, 2013)

But that was 6 months and about 170 miles ago


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## IoC (May 14, 2009)

*Try cardboard sometime*



AndrwSwitch said:


> I'm usually too lazy. But when I do clean a cassette, I use a folded-over rag to get between the cogs.


Same here on the laziness. Instead of a rag, a tip I've tried with good success is to cut a piece of corrugated cardboard out of shipping box. It's just thick enough to squeeze between cogs and give them a good wiping, and you can just throw it away when done.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I use wd40 and a tooth brush and then alcohol. Same for the chain. I use dry lube, so I don't have to do this often. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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