# Krampus w/ suspension and new Porcelain Rocket gear thoughts...



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The last couple years I've been bikepacking with a rigid Krampus and older Porcelain Rocket gear. The 29+ bike got a Fox Float fork and some new PR bags over the winter.

I got out on a 3 day ride to test the new setup and posted my thoughts on my blog:

https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/krampus-bikepacking-mods-scorecard/

*The Coles Notes version:*

- new PR bar bag works well and is lighter/simpler to use than old version.
- the new PR seat bag with metal frame is much more stable and bag is easily removable from bike.
- suspension wasn't noticed much on this ride. I've been pretty happy with a rigid 29+ so far. I'll wait until I get some techy bikepacking in before I decide if I keep it or go back to rigid.
- I miss the lack of bar ends on my bike and want a higher rise bar to compensate for the shorter steerer on the Fox fork.
- WTB Pure V works for me on shorter rides, but I prefer a Brook B17 for longer multi-day rides despite the extra weight.

Not new on this ride, but confirmed after 2 previous years of dirt touring - I love the 29+ wheels for this type of riding and the Krampus' frame flex/geo is perfect for me as well. It just feels so good riding that bike. I've been tempted by more blingier frames, but I keep thinking they may be a lot more $$ and not necessarily as awesome for me. It' snice to have a bike I love. 










Regardless of setup/gear it was great to get out and ride around the beautiful island I live on. I got to take one of my buddy's and a MTBR member on his first MTB tour which was special. Hopefully he's keen to ride more dirt! :thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to a great touring season here now that the wet season is behind us.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My 120 tpi Knards are getting fairly worn, but once again they impressed me with how well the roll and the grip they provide given the lack of aggressive knobs.

I liked them so much I bought a second take off set from a MTBR member. For anything that's not techy I'll use them.

The split tube tubeless setup has been great. No flats and no hassles since setting them up about a year ago. :thumbsup:










I've been keen on getting some tires with more aggressive knobs. It's down to the Chuppa's vs. the Chronicles. I haven't decided.










I may also just save my $$ and roll on Knards another year. Sounds like there will be a few more quality 29+ options in 2016.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

Good stuff, Vik.

My original rear Knard is about worn out after 1500+ miles of touring. Will keep an eye on your next tire choice. Although, like you, I must say the Knards do everything I want them to do.

Not missing front suspension on the Krampus, even here in the Southwest. You might come to the same realization. When I tour it's typically for other reasons than savoring the steep gnar.

I'm slowly putting together a Pugsley too. QBP unloaded old colors for well under $200, frame/fork. After much deliberation about the fatbike developement, I finally understood that the good old off-set concept is really the only way to go for me.

My son also bought one through his shop. Up until now he was on a On-One with Rabbit Hole rims and front Knard. He is way ahead of me, already riding it around town in Kram-Pug mode.

This is his:
image by kullaberg631, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nice Krampug. For $200 for a frame + fork I might grab another fatty as well. Who cares about the colour?

I'd be tempted to do a fatty with 2 wheel sets for fat and 29+. But it's having a Krampus it's cheaper just to buy a fatty if I ever need that floatation again.

As someone who loves their FS trail bike and is no luddite I'm impressed by how well a rigid 29+ Krampus does. Particularly consider that with even a modest bikepacking load you can't be super nimble and avoid all the gnar there is by necessity some plowing through stuff.

Riding with FS and hardtail bikes I expected them to dominate on the downhills, but the rigid 29+ held its own.

It's quite possible I'll just go back to rigid after this season if my testing doesn't show enough benefits. 

Good to get your input and hear that you are having similar experiences/opinions.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks for the discussion, Vik. You just pushed me closer to springing for some 29" Rabbit Holes for my Pugsley. Once I get past having my "surfer's ear" condition fixed, and find out how much my "co-pay" will be, I'll know if I can drop the coin for the wheel set.
I'm still doing fine on the Pugs. I'm taking it gravel grinding this afternoon, exploring another decommissioned logging road. This one gets used by the local hunters, so its plenty good to ride. Some of the abandoned logging roads that don't get used much are grown over with alder saplings, and its tough to ride those, since they are like ribbons of thicket.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PlutonicPlague said:


> Thanks for the discussion, Vik. You just pushed me closer to springing for some 29" Rabbit Holes for my Pugsley. Once I get past having my "surfer's ear" condition fixed, and find out how much my "co-pay" will be, I'll know if I can drop the coin for the wheel set.
> I'm still doing fine on the Pugs. I'm taking it gravel grinding this afternoon, exploring another decommissioned logging road. This one gets used by the local hunters, so its plenty good to ride. Some of the abandoned logging roads that don't get used much are grown over with alder saplings, and its tough to ride those, since they are like ribbons of thicket.


Good luck with the Kram-Pug project. The Pugs is a great bike with fat tire or chubby 29+ rubber. With both wheelsets you've got the ability to ride an amazing variety of terrain.


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## LittleBitey (Nov 10, 2012)

vikb said:


> My 120 tpi Knards are getting fairly worn, but once again they impressed me with how well the roll and the grip they provide given the lack of aggressive knobs.
> 
> I liked them so much I bought a second take off set from a MTBR member. For anything that's not techy I'll use them.
> 
> ...


I haven't ridden the Chronicle's but will say I'm rolling a Chupa up front and it's a fantastic tire. Stupid expensive, but fantastic.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Michael put this video together from footage he took on a trip we took a couple weeks ago. :thumbsup:


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

Nice weather for April!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jan_nikolajsen said:


> Nice weather for April!


Yes. We are lucky living on an island keeps our climate mild. It's not too hard to find sweet weather in March or even earlier as long as you can make plans and hit the trail with less than a week's notice.

We mountain bike on "skinny" bikes year round.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Totally keen to head out again Vik! You haven't scared me off yet...

Michael


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LittleBitey said:


> I haven't ridden the Chronicle's but will say I'm rolling a Chupa up front and it's a fantastic tire. Stupid expensive, but fantastic.


Within reason I don't care how much tires cost. I'm still at a point where my working vs. riding time means that I'm not wearing out rubber stupid fast. Not to mention the opportunity cost of having less fun and/or crashing with a less capable tire means spending a bit extra for the right tire is always the smart move.

I'm just happy we are talking about which 29+ tire to buy instead of being pissed off there is only 1 choice. :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

geraldooka said:


> Totally keen to head out again Vik! You haven't scared me off yet...
> 
> Michael


Once you get that Selle Anatomica saddle installed you'll be dying to ride 100kms+ days on your MTB.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

vikb said:


> It's not too hard to find sweet weather in March


Helps that this year the mountains are bare!

Good report, next week I am taking Paul Brodie's bike building course in Abbotsford. I'm going to build up a symmetircal 135mm fatbike I've been talking about for a year. He says students have made fatbikes to take 4" tires but I'm going to see if I can push it to 5". To avoid chainrub I won't be able to use a rear cassette which I never plan to again anyways, and I'll attach some kind of a chainguard to the chainstay to keep the chain from flopping into the tire.

The offset of the Pugsley was too much hassle and worry last year in Baja and I hope to go back this fall and go deeper in.

Wondering about the geometry I should make. Should I be conservative and just copy the Pugsley geometry (except for raising the top tube higher for more frame bag space and not need that little triangle gusset), or should I incorporate a bit slacker headtube angle and longer wheelbase like the Mukluk or Krampus?

Also was wondering, what would you do if the bead of your tire came off in the middle of nowhere like if you had to change a spoke nipple or repair your tire? Just stick a tube in there and keep riding? In the middle of nowhere you don't have a compressor to reseat the bead. I experimented with BFL's on Darryls, using the other tire inflated to 30 psi as a compressor. You remove the valve cores and have a little tube attached to the valve of the other flat tire (with the upper bead seated). Then pump up the other tire and quickly attach the hose. It fills the flat tire nice and fast but I haven't been able to get the bead to seat completely yet. Maybe I need to lube it up more.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

What aspects of the off-set geometry caused you issues?


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

jan_nikolajsen said:


> What aspects of the off-set geometry caused you issues?


Mostly with hooking up a trailer to it. Plus the wheel building is more complicated. Also I have a non-offset Moonlander fork up front so the wheels weren't swappable in an emergency.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mark_BC said:


> Mostly with hooking up a trailer to it. Plus the wheel building is more complicated. Also I have a non-offset Moonlander fork up front so the wheels weren't swappable in an emergency.


I was going to ask the same question as Jan. The 135 offset Pugs wheels have been proven for a much longer time than the newer rear spacing options on fat bikes. People have toured, raced and trail ridden them with very few problems.

I had a swappable wheel Pugs which I thought was a great feature. It's too bad Surly ditched that on their complete bikes.

I'm pretty horrified if I have to carry fullsize panniers bikepacking these days so trailer compatibility doesn't cross my mind much. What is the problem hauling a trailer with a Pugs? I've seen a bunch of people do it?


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

It is an Extrawheel and the attachment fork isn't offset so you have to add spacers to one side which doesn't work because that would weaken the axle's friction lock with the dropouts, so you have to attach single axle nuts independently on each side somehow yadda yadda yadda it goes on and on before you finally get it to work. I need the trailer to haul water.

The Pugsley front offset fork is now available again so I may just get one of those and put it on the Pugsley frame as a second fatbike.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

One other thing, other trailers like the Bob, you can modify the trailer fork but not with the Extrawheel because it is sprung steel.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mark_BC said:


> Wondering about the geometry I should make. Should I be conservative and just copy the Pugsley geometry (except for raising the top tube higher for more frame bag space and not need that little triangle gusset), or should I incorporate a bit slacker headtube angle and longer wheelbase like the Mukluk or Krampus?


Good luck with the course and your custom fatty. That will be a lot of fun! 

I'm not a geo expert so I hesitate to comment. I prefer the Krampus to the Pugs, but I also never ran the Pugs with 29+ wheels.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

The other advantage of using a symmetrical build is you can use skinnier 29" rims if you want to without needing a new bike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mark_BC said:


> Also was wondering, what would you do if the bead of your tire came off in the middle of nowhere like if you had to change a spoke nipple or repair your tire? Just stick a tube in there and keep riding? In the middle of nowhere you don't have a compressor to reseat the bead. I experimented with BFL's on Darryls, using the other tire inflated to 30 psi as a compressor. You remove the valve cores and have a little tube attached to the valve of the other flat tire (with the upper bead seated). Then pump up the other tire and quickly attach the hose. It fills the flat tire nice and fast but I haven't been able to get the bead to seat completely yet. Maybe I need to lube it up more.


I can tell you what I do for the Krampus.

1. setup the most bomber tubeless I can so I don't have to mess with it [split tube]
2. carry kevlar emergency spokes to fix a broken spoke without removing the tire
3. carry 2 CO2 cartridges to seat the bead [1 is enough for 1 tire]
4. carry tubeless plugs to fix bigger holes without taking tire off rim
4. carry 1 or 2 spare tubes [depends on how far away from help and if I am alone or not]
5. carry a patch kit to fix a tube flat

When I did all my Baja Pugs riding I had tubes in the tires.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

vikb said:


> I can tell you what I do for the Krampus.
> 
> 1. setup the most bomber tubeless I can so I don't have to mess with it [split tube]
> 2. carry kevlar emergency spokes to fix a broken spoke without removing the tire
> ...


My 2 cents:
Suture needle (or suture kit, a good idea for BC adventure anyway - helps to have the non-absorbable type thread) with dental floss can sew a ripped tire without removing it from the rim. It's another option.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Good tip. If you can't keep air in the tire with all those items then it's time to walk. Which is one of reasons I wear walkable shoes and use flat pedals.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

FWIW, I have been running the Chupacabra's for some time now on my Beargrease 29+. Far superior tire to the knard, IMO. To be fair, I have only ridden the knards in 27tpi guise on my friend's bike on several occasions. The Chupa's don't have much more in terms of knob height. That picture is somewhat deceiving in this regard. So is the one with the chronicles. In person, those look more like semi-slicks. 

My chupa's went tubeless very easily. Roll way faster. Much grippier. They tend to give way very gradually even in the front, which is nice for a tire with such small knobs. Significantly more traction than a knard as well. I also think that they maintain this much farther into the wear cycle. Once the knard wears its square working edges, it becomes a slightly different tire. The siping on the Chupa's keeps them sharper feeling. They have a nice, round profile on 50mm rims, much like the Knard. Early testing suggests that the sidewalls are significantly more durable than the knard.

Hope that helps.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Dogdude222 said:


> FWIW, I have been running the Chupacabra's for some time now on my Beargrease 29+. Far superior tire to the knard, IMO. To be fair, I have only ridden the knards in 27tpi guise on my friend's bike on several occasions. The Chupa's don't have much more in terms of knob height. That picture is somewhat deceiving in this regard. So is the one with the chronicles. In person, those look more like semi-slicks.
> 
> My chupa's went tubeless very easily. Roll way faster. Much grippier. They tend to give way very gradually even in the front, which is nice for a tire with such small knobs. Significantly more traction than a knard as well. I also think that they maintain this much farther into the wear cycle. Once the knard wears its square working edges, it becomes a slightly different tire. The siping on the Chupa's keeps them sharper feeling. They have a nice, round profile on 50mm rims, much like the Knard. Early testing suggests that the sidewalls are significantly more durable than the knard.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks. I have a set of Chupa's ordered from Mike C.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

New higher rise Race Face Atlas bars make up for short steerer on used Fox fork. Added some bar ends to provide alternate hand positions as next tour is ~900kms of GDR-esque forest service roads.










Put a trusty old Brooks B17 on the bike to replace the WTB plastic saddle.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

Nice. Yeah I cut my Moonlander steerer pretty long and it sticks out above the stem just because I wasn't sure how long I wanted it.

So where is this big trip? Not sure if you saw this, maybe you were the one who gave the link, of this guy who toured the Coast Mountains on his Krampus. I just want to get out there somewhere. I wonder when the Chilcotins will be snow-free, maybe even now with the low snowpack.

I got my 135mm fatbike together today and took it for its first ride. Pretty good although there is some weird steering issue going on downhill when braking. Here are a couple photos.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm going to a ride down Vancouver Island on a route we've been working on for a while. It will be nice to ride and camp from tip to tip.

Congrats on building your own frame. About as ambitous as I get is to order a frame/fork and hang some parts off it!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

^^^ how my cockpit started this latest trip.










^^^ how it ended it.










I'll be swapping out the 100mm stem for a 75mm one from my parts box to shorten the reach to the bars.

I'd also use thicker padded gloves for the GDR-esque tour where your hands are in the same position longer and there is less hike-a-bike that a techy trail tour.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

120 tpi Knards continue to impress for non-techy touring. My knobs have seen better days, but they still provide enough grip at reasonable pressures. They roll great which is nice when you need to cover some ground efficiently. 










Rolled over a ton of sharp rocks. One finally cut the sidewall and I flatted. Popped in a tire plug and I was rolling again in a few minutes. Put in another 450ms with no issues. I love tubeless! :thumbsup:

I'll be installing some Chupas shortly. I'll save these Knards for my next GDR-esque tour. I'll patch the punctured sidewall from the inside.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Since you were on faster roads than usual the added wind blew your bar ends back? I hope you've tightened them back up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> Since you were on faster roads than usual the added wind blew your bar ends back? I hope you've tightened them back up.


After 5 days of riding I decided my stem was too long. Flipping the bar ends was a lazy way to shorten the reach to the bars for easier cruising sections.

I'll dig out a shorter stem now that I am home.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i have been super impressed with the chronicles here in the desert,even the roads are no picnic here since they are often strewn with goatheads.but after close to 1000 miles on them i have only had two goatheads actually puncture the casing...but to me even more impressive is the abuse the sidewalls have taken,some of the scrapes they have taken in the rock gardens would have torn a lesser tire right off the rim...

i agree,the krampus is a fine machine,so well suited to those long days of riding over a variety of surfaces,so much fun blasting down the numerous jeep roads around here while being just as fun on the trails,and still being great on the roads...a fine machine..


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nice K-Pus...:thumbsup:

I've got some Chupas for singletrack use and a new set of 120tpi Knards for non-techy riding when I wear my current Knards out completely, but when the time comes for new "Knardly" tires I may score some Chronicles to try out.

It's great we have some choice in 29+ rubber now.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

hamsterspam said:


> i have been super impressed with the chronicles here in the desert,even the roads are no picnic here since they are often strewn with goatheads.but after close to 1000 miles on them i have only had two goatheads actually puncture the casing...but to me even more impressive is the abuse the sidewalls have taken,some of the scrapes they have taken in the rock gardens would have torn a lesser tire right off the rim...


Are those the EXO version?

Also, do you know the total tire diameter of those? Just wondering if they'll fit in my shocks.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

vikb said:


> Nice K-Pus...:thumbsup:
> 
> I've got some Chupas for singletrack use and a new set of 120tpi Knards for non-techy riding when I wear my current Knards out completely, but when the time comes for new "Knardly" tires I may score some Chronicles to try out.
> 
> It's great we have some choice in 29+ rubber now.


im thinking of a chupa for the front of my "krunkey",i have the old 27 tpi knard on a blunt35 up front and maxxis ardent 2.4 on the back and i love it like that but it would be nice to shave almost a pound off the front end.and since i have a 'krogre" running the knard 27 tpi up front it would give me a spare tire....wouldnt mind having the non mythical dirt wizard around to try...
it is nice to have choices!



Mark_BC said:


> Are those the EXO version?
> 
> Also, do you know the total tire diameter of those? Just wondering if they'll fit in my shocks.


yes they are,pretty expensive but like i said,they take a lickin!
dunno about the shock clearance,i think others have done it though...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just bought a used Whisky carbon from a fellow Krampus owner [not the one above].

It will be ~1lb lighter than the stock steel fork and ~3lbs lighter than the Fox Float 34 I'm running at the moment.

I'm not 100% how I'm going to use it, but I have been thinking about some carbon 25-38mm Light Bicycle rims so I could have a fast/light Krampus setup for rides that don't need suspension or a Rohloff/Rabbit Hole wheelset.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Looks great. I upgraded from some rabbit holes with Knards to some nexties with Chupacabras this season. A fair bit lighter (my nexties turned out to be just over 500 grams, less than advertised), but for whatever reason, it just didn't make the difference I thought it would (compared to, say, going to a sub 1400 gram wheelsets on a regular 29er). Don't get me wrong, nice wheels, but didn't change the bike as I thought it would. My 2 cents.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

That's a good point.

My current rear Rabbit Hole wheel with Rohloff is really heavy. Worth it for times when I want the reliability and weatherproofness of an IGH, but that's not every trip.

Going to carbon rims would save me half a pound up front and probably 3lbs in the rear.

If I gave up the idea I'd use the new wheels on another bike I could just do another Rabbit Hole + Hope hub in the rear which I can use with my existing front wheel. I'd be able to run it as a SS or derailleur 1x depending on what the trip required. Including the Rohloff wheel that gives me tons of options! :thumbsup:

Just getting a single rear wheel would reduce my costs a lot. Might be worth doing vs. the carbon rims which are not in the budget at the moment.

I had hoped to have a 2nd bling carbon 29er wheelset that I could use on a trail bike as well as my bikepacking bike, but with the continual march of standards [ie. Boost 110/148] it seems less and less likely to happen now.

I'm not in the market for a new trail bike [current ones are 26er and 650B] so maybe I'll shelve that idea for now and when the time comes to replace the trail bike I'll make sure I update my bikepacking rig [the far cheaper bike] so they are compatible and I'll get a fancy shareable wheel set then.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

thats basically what im doing here,i have my wheels for the karate monkey on blunt 35's now so i could single speed the krampus with just a tire and rotor swap although i suppose since i have a conversion kit it would be just a simple to use that.i still need to get a rear wheel built up on a hope hub and blunt35 for the monkey in case i want to run gears on that and i do have an alfine8 laying around...and since i also have an ogre i can swap all these wheels back and forth depending on what i want to do...
surlys are fun bikes to own....swap a few things out and they become completely different bikes...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I decided to get a new Rabbit Hole rim and just build up a rear SS/1x wheel I can use with my existing front Krampus wheel.

FWIW - Jenson has a 20% coupon "july4" on right now and free shipping over $50 for US folks. That will take $30 off a RH rim and get it delivered to you.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

vikb said:


> FWIW - Jenson has a 20% coupon "july4" on right now and free shipping over $50 for US folks. That will take $30 off a RH rim and get it delivered to you.


I noticed that every time I order something decent size they give me a 15% off coupon on 1 item for next order, that is valid for a month. So rather than doing one big order with multiple items (say 2 rims + 2 tires), I break it down into a few, each using the previous order's coupon...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Until recently when the CDN dollar tanked Jenson charged for shipping so there was an incentive to place a bigger order. Now it's really just about getting past the $150 for free shipping.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

lol,i never seem to have a problem spending enough to get to the free shipping point!

when i got the krampus i looked at all the available rims,the non carbon ones at any rate,looking to shed some rotational mass while still having a fairly bombproof rim for the often rocky conditions around here and came to the conclusion they dont really come much more bombproof than surly rims...i have beat the heck out of my clown shoes and only ever needed a minor truing done on them,and the rabbit holes really take a beating since the krampus is a much faster bike than the moony,and so far no problems with the tubeless set up...one of these days im going to have to throw the blunt35's onto the krampus and give them a try with the single speed setup and im tempted to get my alfine8 built up on a blunt35 and try that on the krampus as well...fun to have options....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I have no problem spending $$ on bike parts. It's the paying end of the equation that I need to keep an eye on.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hamsterspam said:


> when i got the krampus i looked at all the available rims,the non carbon ones at any rate,looking to shed some rotational mass while still having a fairly bombproof rim for the often rocky conditions around here and came to the conclusion they dont really come much more bombproof than surly rims...


I've come to realize that despite being a fat ass rider I don't trash rims the way some folks do. I'd like to think it was due to years of skill building on rigid MTBs back when that was the only choice. However, it could be just because I ride slow and don't do anything gnarly. 

I'm 3 seasons into my Rabbit Hole wheelset - most of that was rigid riding very rooty and rocky trails. Still haven't dinged a rim and I don't ride high pressures.

So I'm happy enough with my Rabbit Holes.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

yup,im not what you would call a small person,nor am i particularly skilled at many aspects of mountain biking,but then again i do only have about 18 months experience with trail/off pavement riding and didnt start until i was 48 so i think im doing pretty well to have not had any major wrecks during the learning curve cause i had zero mountain biking skills when a first started...it was all panic and panting and locked brakes and falling over because i couldnt get unclipped in time,and its taken a while to get over the rock phobia...
rambling here....anyway,i got into dirt riding simply because there were so many places a i wanted to ride to that are only dirt accessible.i started riding the local trail network to build the skill set needed since even the county maintained dirt roads are no picnic around here,and some of the 2 tracks are just plain awful,but theres like a gazillion miles of them all over the desert,theres just so many places to go....

got sidetracked riding the trails,its just so much fun ripping some tasty singletrack,and i was getting fast enough that riding the moonlander and karate monkey was getting to be less fun due to the beating i was taking,so i got the krampus reasoning that it would fall somewhere right between the monkey and moonlander on the fast/somewhat cushioned ride venn diagram...and i was right,the krampus has rocked in the slaying chunder bunnies department...
but last month i did the strava everest challenge,and it sort of forced me out of my comfort zone and out to new places chasing elevation gain,and it made me realize how truly awesome the krampus is for long mixed surface days where you go from pavement to dirt roads to singletrack to awful sandy gullies all in a day,and how well it does all of that....

sorry,blathered on there a bit,im interested to here what you think of the krampus with a front shock,i have been considering that as an upgrade at some point...after the shimano 11 speed upgrade,and maybe some industry9 hubs....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mounted up some Chupas to the Krampus' Rabbit Holes. Surprisingly they were much harder to get seated than the Knards were. Knards popped into place with a single CO2 cartridge. I had to take the Chupas to work and use a compressor to seat them and even that took a lot of effort.

Once they popped into place the Chupas sealed up no problem and I expect they'll be as trouble free tubeless as the Knards were. :thumbsup:

They measured at 2.99" at the widest point of the tire.

I'm looking forward to trying them out on some loose off camber terrain where the Knards didn't grip well.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bikepacking bling:

- Wisky #9 carbon fork
- Surly Rabbit Hole rim
- Race Face Atlas High Rise bar
- XT BB

The bar and BB are going on the Krampus now to replace worn out & defective parts.

The carbon fork and rim are destined for a lightweight Krampus SS/1x build I'll get finished this fall/winter. I'm just buying parts when they come on sale or I see a good deal on a used part.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Bikepacking bling:
> 
> - Wisky #9 carbon fork
> - Surly Rabbit Hole rim
> ...


wow. nice....
debating having a second wheelset built up for my krampus with the WTB scrapers, and having a mount machined for my rohloff shift box so i can swap to a single speed setup.

that fork is sweet. local has one on his SS krampus (but he just put a MRP stage on it...)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> wow. nice....
> debating having a second wheelset built up for my krampus with the WTB scrapers, and having a mount machined for my rohloff shift box so i can swap to a single speed setup.


If I go SS for a trip I'll pull the Rohloff shifter. Since it's my bikepacking bike the changes won't be super quick. Just once swap before each trip.

I went with another Rabbit Hole so I can just use the existing front wheel with the new rear wheel [shouldn't matter, but my brain wants matching rims!]. That way I pay for 3 wheels and can run IGH/SS/1x at will.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Oh yeah! Nice!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

At the Forth Fat gathering of bikes over here in April that Coastkid organised, the UK Surly Distributer dude had his Krampus there, with a custom blue paint job and Whisky forks / Bars, he loved it. 

The bike will be that light you will barely need to pedal!


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

vikb said:


> I decided to get a new Rabbit Hole rim and just build up a rear SS/1x wheel I can use with my existing front Krampus wheel.
> 
> FWIW - Jenson has a 20% coupon "july4" on right now and free shipping over $50 for US folks. That will take $30 off a RH rim and get it delivered to you.


Activejunky.com | Backcountry, REI, Moosejaw Coupons and Cash Back

Buy through activejunky and you could get 5% cashback on top of the discount. I use them for most of my online purchases, I just did one for Nashbar and got 7% cashback on top of my 30% off the item 

Every bit helps in this expensive hobby.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Well the jury is in. After a bunch of trips this year using the 130mm suspension fork I've decided to go back to rigid for my Krampus.

I'm a suspension guy so I am quite surprised by this, but in 95% of situations I either didn't find the sus fork better or actually preferred rigid.

My K-pus gets used mainly for bikepacking so that definitely factors into it. I only get so "rad" and "gnarly" with camping gear.

Although I found the lighter stock rigid fork was easier to loft than the suspension fork so getting it over stuff eliminated the hits in a lot of cases plus ultimately the rear end is rigid so that limited my speed/smash-ability anyways.

The steeper steering geo on the stock fork was also better for tight singletrack carving.

I'll be keeping the suspension fork so if I miss it I can always go back.

Once again this experiment taught me that there is no replacement for testing out ideas on the trail. What you think will happen and what actually happens frequently ain't the same thing!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The Bontrager Chupacabras proved to be an awesome techy bikepacking tire. Excellent braking/climbing traction and decent off camber grip in loose conditions which was something I didn't enjoy with the Knards.

They rolled reasonably fast [though not as fast as the Knards] and they had lots of volume for plowing through sandy/muddy/boggy areas without sinking in.

More than enough tread for as aggressively as I would ride a MTB loaded with camping gear.

We cruised over a lot of sharp chunky rock with no damage or flats.

FWIW - harder to setup tubeless than Knards [split tube]. Needed an industrial compressor, but once seated and sealed they were 100% reliable.

Other than being expensive I have no complaints really. And even there I'd much rather have an awesome, but pricey tire than get mediocre tires on sale.

So with Knards for non-techy riding and Chupas for techy bikepacking I am set. :thumbsup:


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

good info,makes me think im just gonna keep my krampus the way it is and just buy a full squishy bike..


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

So I noted above that Chupas are great techy bikepacking tires and I prefer the krampus rigid.

The other thing that was on my mind a lot this past tour was having a dropper post. I did stop to manually adjust it a few times, but that was both a slow process and with varied terrain it was often too low or too high.

I'm going to get a dropper that works with my Krampus' skinny seat tube so I have that option for techy tours. For logging road style rides a rigid post is fine.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> So I noted above that Chupas are great techy bikepacking tires and I prefer the krampus rigid.
> 
> The other thing that was on my mind a lot this past tour was having a dropper post. I did stop to manually adjust it a few times, but that was both a slow process and with varied terrain it was often too low or too high.
> 
> I'm going to get a dropper that works with my Krampus' skinny seat tube so I have that option for techy tours. For logging road style rides a rigid post is fine.


We joked about a dropper on mine today. I put the Thudbuster off my Fargo (rarely used it!) on my Krampus today to get an extra CM of setback. Took the edge off for sure but has always felt weird climbing and in hard corners. Makes the back end feel mushy. Which is what it's supposed to do o guess.

Going to ride it and finalize the saddle position and then figure out if I need a setback rigid post. Would be fun to have a dropper to go from dirt road : buff single track to rocky roots drops single track. But I don't think I'll ever go there. Curious though to see what you do with yours.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've got a seatback rigid post on the Krampus at the moment.

I wouldn't want a Thudbuster on that bike for real MTbing, but I might for dirt road touring. I've never tried a TB so it would be an investment to test it out.

A dropper I know I would use and love for trail riding. Even more so on a bikepacking rig where the weight means you can't manoeuvre as well as an unloaded bike so you have to roll over stuff less optimally.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> I've got a seatback rigid post on the Krampus at the moment.
> 
> I wouldn't want a Thudbuster on that bike for real MTbing, but I might for dirt road touring. I've never tried a TB so it would be an investment to test it out.
> 
> A dropper I know I would use and love for trail riding. Even more so on a bikepacking rig where the weight means you can't manoeuvre as well as an unloaded bike so you have to roll over stuff less optimally.


How do you handle the seat bag? Isn't the PR Mr. Fusion fixed to the seatpost or seat collar? Does the dropper have enough force to lift a bag back up?

Thudbuster - had it on the shelf and used it to test more setback. It certainly takes the buzz out. It won't stay on. I probably need the harder elastomer if I was going to use it more often.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> How do you handle the seat bag? Isn't the PR Mr. Fusion fixed to the seatpost or seat collar? Does the dropper have enough force to lift a bag back up?












The Mr. Fusion bag frame doesn't work with a dropper. It wouldn't matter anyways as the bag would go straight into the rear tire. :eekster::nono:

If you want a dropper on a bikepacking rig you can't use a seatbag. I have seen one solution, but I wouldn't trust it for day after day of techy riding. And that's the only time I'd want a dropper.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Krampus is back to rigid. Rolling on the stock fork. 33lbs with Rolhoff and Brooks saddle.

I have a carbon 29+ fork, but I think I'm going to build up a singletrack bikepacking bike [Krampus] and a dirt road bikepacking rig [light w/ carbon fork].










Bikepacking bag beauty marks.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

well earned battle wounds...


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## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

vikb said:


> If you want a dropper on a bikepacking rig you can't use a seatbag. I have seen one solution, but I wouldn't trust it for day after day of techy riding. And that's the only time I'd want a dropper.
> 
> [


I'm curious if you are referring to the dual seat post on one saddle method and if so what your reservations are. Obviously you need the tire clearance, but I don't see any other gotchas?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fotooutdoors said:


> I'm curious if you are referring to the dual seat post on one saddle method and if so what your reservations are. Obviously you need the tire clearance, but *I don't see any other gotchas?*


Yes.

*Problems:*

- you are leveraging that bag off the back of your saddle
- less stability
- more force on the saddle rails and on the dropper
- limited space and weight of contents
- extra weight of 2nd post

I would not take that on an extended rough singletrack tour. People are breaking saddle rails as is without leveraging the cargo even further back. You are just asking for problems.

If you look at where bikepacking seatbag design is going it's heading towards more stable designs that transfer some the load to the post itself to reduce stress on the saddle rails. This idea goes the opposite way :less stable, poorly supported and more likely to fail.

It would be fine on a less rough/gnarly tour, but I don't need a dropper in those cases and would just use a much simpler/more reliable rigid post.

Personally I'm interested in simple robust touring solutions that I have no doubts about when I am deep in the backcountry. This isn't one of them.

If I am going to use a dropper touring there are better solutions.


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## dream4est (May 21, 2003)

I have used a dropper post in a bunch of bikepack races and have used my own seatbag builds with success. I have seen others too like Jesse Jakomait. 
My KS i950r has never failed in 6 years hard use and no seat rail issues.

I am currently working on a new bag that I will be selling. Maybe I will let you be the first to demo it Vik. I built a nice one, my fourth dropper bag, for CTR but I need to update that it was only a prototype built at the last second I single stitched some seams I should have backed up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dream4est said:


> I have used a dropper post in a bunch of bikepack races and have used my own seatbag builds with success. I have seen others too like Jesse Jakomait.
> My KS i950r has never failed in 6 years hard use and no seat rail issues.
> 
> I am currently working on a new bag that I will be selling. Maybe I will let you be the first to demo it Vik. I built a nice one, my fourth dropper bag, for CTR but I need to update that it was only a prototype built at the last second I single stitched some seams I should have backed up.


Sounds good. I'd love to see some photos when you have her completed. :thumbsup:


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

I love (LOVE) my Thomson dropper post. However, for bikepacking, the rigid goes on. It's not a point of failure that I want to risk if I'm headed out in the backcountry. 

For quick overnighters or places closer to civilization, it may be beneficial.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stremf said:


> I love (LOVE) my Thomson dropper post. However, for bikepacking, the rigid goes on. It's not a point of failure that I want to risk if I'm headed out in the backcountry.
> 
> For quick overnighters or places closer to civilization, it may be beneficial.


You can mitigate any failure risk with a bolt on collar that holds the post at whatever height you want it at should it no longer work. It's light and foolproof.

I agree that a dropper is just extra tech that I would leave at home where it's not required. Having said that I have been on longer trip where I would definitely take a dropper if I was doing it again. Steep techy terrain is really so much more fun and less walking with a dropper.

As long as it's not a stealth routed model you can install/remove a dropper in 5mins before a trip as needed. That makes it very easy to use an optimized setup each trip.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

Where did you get your Chupa's?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mark_BC said:


> Where did you get your Chupa's?


Mike C - MTBR member: Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels

Good price. Stocks weird $hit I like. Fast service. Easy to deal with. Doesn't lose his mind when asked to ship to Canada! :thumbsup:


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

vikb said:


> You can mitigate any failure risk with a bolt on collar that holds the post at whatever height you want it at should it no longer work. It's light and foolproof.
> 
> I agree that a dropper is just extra tech that I would leave at home where it's not required. Having said that I have been on longer trip where I would definitely take a dropper if I was doing it again. Steep techy terrain is really so much more fun and less walking with a dropper.
> 
> As long as it's not a stealth routed model you can install/remove a dropper in 5mins before a trip as needed. That makes it very easy to use an optimized setup each trip.


Hm, I wonder if my dropper has enough length at full droop to make that work. If so, then that would solve that issue. Nevertheless, net advantage (for me) goes to a regular seat post for durability** and do love having my Rev. seat pack on the back. The triangle on my frame is really small, so storage becomes an issue if I didn't have that seat pack.

** Having said that, Thomson dropper hasn't given me any problems at all.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stremf said:


> Hm, I wonder if my dropper has enough length at full droop to make that work. If so, then that would solve that issue. Nevertheless, net advantage (for me) goes to a regular seat post for durability** and do love having my Rev. seat pack on the back. The triangle on my frame is really small, so storage becomes an issue if I didn't have that seat pack.
> 
> ** Having said that, Thomson dropper hasn't given me any problems at all.


I've also never had a dropper failure where it wouldn't stay up. I have had them stop going up and down reliably [gummed up cable] so I just left them up. The locking collar is cheap easy to carry insurance so it's worth the hassle.

Ultimately you only benefit from a dropper on very steep gnarly terrain. I wouldn't suggest bikepacking with a dropper on every trip. I would assess the terrain and decide from there.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> I've also never had a dropper failure where it wouldn't stay up. I have had them stop going up and down reliably [gummed up cable] so I just left them up. The locking collar is cheap easy to carry insurance so it's worth the hassle.
> 
> Ultimately you only benefit from a dropper on very steep gnarly terrain. I wouldn't suggest bikepacking with a dropper on every trip. I would assess the terrain and decide from there.


Vik - what dropper would you use on the Krampus. Im shopping after playing in the local woods (not bikepacking) with my saddle height.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Vik - what dropper would you use on the Krampus. Im shopping after playing in the local woods (not bikepacking) with my saddle height.


The skinny seat tube limits the choices. I found the following options through the vendors I use.

- KS x 2 options
- Gravity Dropper x 2 options
- X-fusion x 1 option

If money was no object and you want to use it a lot I would get the KS Lev 272. It looks like the nicest skinny option I found.

If you wanted the most foolproof I'd get one of the Gravity Dropper posts.

What I actually got was a low cost KS E-Ten dropper for ~$100 on sale. Just because it was cheap and would probably work well enough for one season of bikepacking. If I like my techy bikepacking setup I'll spring for a higher quality dropper for 2017.

I was about to buy a Gravity Dropper post, but it was twice the price of the KS and I didn't know if I'd like how the mechanical GD posts work compared to all the hydraulic infinite adjust droppers I've used.

If the Krampus seat tube was larger I'd get a RS Reverb as I've enjoyed that post best of all the droppers I've used.

FWIW - Surly's new MTB frames are all going 30.9mm for better dropper selection. I assume we'll see a revised 29+ Krampus-esque bike in the next year or two with a bigger ST.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Don't forget Thomson.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stremf said:


> Don't forget Thomson.


Everyone I know with Thompson posts has had problems and they've gone back multiple times. Add in the bling cost and I wouldn't spend my $$ on one.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

All anecdotal, I guess. I've had zero issues over the last season. I know 2 others with them and report no issues. But this is a very small sample. Hope it lasts, as it's been the best dropper I've used to date. Either way, it is an option for those with 27.2 tubes.


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## CrashTheDOG (Jan 4, 2004)

Both of my Thomson Droppers have been rock solid for over a year. If you're patient and search you can often find them well below the $450 msrp. Granted that's still pricey but I think the premium is worth it. The Gravity Dropper is a fine post if you're willing to go analog in a digital world. For bike packing it probably makes the same argument as BB7 disc brakes make.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Picked up an XFusion HiLo 272 on sale online...
Not good.

The post does not return, even with the seat post clamp loose enough to to turn the post...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Picked up an XFusion HiLo 272 on sale online...
> Not good.
> 
> The post does not return, even with the seat post clamp loose enough to to turn the post...


Bummer. I have KS 27.2 dropper sitting in a box on my desk, but have not tried it yet.

It may just need more pressure to get proper return action. Not that you should have to deal with that on a new product, but might be better than sending away for warranty service

I have a 31.6 X-fusion dropper on my SC Nomad. Not amazing, but functional. It has a slow return speed that takes a bit of getting used to.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My review of the Krampus after 3 seasons of bikepacking goodness. :thumbsup:

https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/surly-krampus-3yr-review/


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

bmike said:


> Picked up an XFusion HiLo 272 on sale online...
> Not good.
> 
> The post does not return, even with the seat post clamp loose enough to to turn the post...


I'm telling you, get a Thomson. With holiday sales starting to hit soon, I'm sure you can find a good deal on it. It will be worth it.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Bummer. I have KS 27.2 dropper sitting in a box on my desk, but have not tried it yet.
> 
> It may just need more pressure to get proper return action. Not that you should have to deal with that on a new product, but might be better than sending away for warranty service
> 
> I have a 31.6 X-fusion dropper on my SC Nomad. Not amazing, but functional. It has a slow return speed that takes a bit of getting used to.


No way to adjust pressure on the 27.2 versions, from what I can tell.
Already have the internet retailer sending me a UPS ticket to send it back.

Will likely get a Gravity Dropper...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> No way to adjust pressure on the 27.2 versions, from what I can tell.
> Already have the internet retailer sending me a UPS ticket to send it back.
> 
> Will likely get a Gravity Dropper...


On the X-Fusions we have [30.9mm version] there is a black plastic cover on the bottom of the post that has to be pried off to access the schrader valve. When I first looked at them I didn't think it came off and assumed there was no way to adjust air pressure.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> On the X-Fusions we have [30.9mm version] there is a black plastic cover on the bottom of the post that has to be pried off to access the schrader valve. When I first looked at them I didn't think it came off and assumed there was no way to adjust air pressure.


Didn't look like it came out... is was inset way into the bottom of the post... 
Doesn't matter. After a few calls the internet retailer sent me a return shipping tag so I didn't have to pay for the return.
Frustrating that it didn't work out of the box...

Going to likely go mechanical with a gravity dropper... 
Or save my $$ for a Thomson... we'll see. 
With winter coming on my Krampus will go into studded tire mode, the Rohloff will go back on, and the single track riding will move to the Pugsley, in the snow.
Unless we don't get alot of white stuff...
So I may put this off until spring.

Wish I had it over the weekend though. Dropped the saddle manually, which worked for the long part of a descent, but wanted to move it up and down with the terrain.

Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

G0025116 by Mike, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Got a dropper mounted on the Krampus. :thumbsup:










I'm working on an UL rear bikepacking rack to avoid the seatbag/dropper conflict.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Got a dropper mounted on the Krampus. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which dropper Vik?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Which dropper Vik?


A cheap and cheerful KS eTen: eTEN REMOTE | KS Suspension ? Get Down and Dirty

So far so good. 

I'm just testing the waters as I got access to one on sale.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've installed a dropper on the Krampus and wanted to find a lightweight rack solution that I could strap a dry bag to instead of trying to make a seatbag work with the dropper.

Chatting with Channing at Old Man Mountain Racks he was interested in such a product so he designed this ^^^ prototype to test out the concept.










Here ^^^ is the rack packed flat for shipping.

Weight is 650g as installed on my On One Scandal in this post.










If this rack is a solution for my Krampus why is it on this bike? I'm going to use the Scandal as my gravel/GDR-esque riding bike with a cockpit setup for all day comfort in a fairly static position.

I've got a couple gravel grinder trips coming up so I figured I would test the rack out on those trips first and then move it over to the Krampus. Gravel grinding is less demanding on gear than techy singletrack so it's a good way to see if there are any obvious problems with this rack before I commit to a more gnarly trip.










Fittment to my Krampus will be the same except I'll need to use p-clips for the top of the seatstay mounts. You'll notice the rack is quite high on this 29er wheel. That's so it can clear my 29+ tire on the Krampus.

If I was going to leave this rack on the Scandal I'd ask for shorter struts to keep the weight low and make everything as stiff as possible.

Install took 30mins the first time and would be more like 10mins the next time now that I have done it before. If you just want to remove and install without deconstructing the rack it's more like a 2min process.










Fabrication quality is excellent as you would expect from OMM. It's made in the USA if that matters to you.

OMM will offer various strut lengths to customize this rack for different bikes. It's designed to carry a dry bag. It will not accept panniers and you shouldn't try and load it up with 40lbs of gear.

This is a prototype and I have not heard a MSRP yet for this rack, but Channing was talking about keeping it affordable and comparable to a quality bikepacking seatbag.

I'm supposed to be working so that's all I have for now. I'll post up some testing info as soon as I can.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Vik - can you get s seat post clamp with rack mount points and connect the upper struts there? Would solve the P clamp issue. 

Actually seems over built for dry bag use. Will wait to see how it works on your trips. 

I had some sketches from my randonneuring days for a rear 'rack' that was for rain gear / dry bag. Might have to dig those out.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Vik - can you get s seat post clamp with rack mount points and connect the upper struts there? Would solve the P clamp issue.


If p-clamps allow for a shorter strut I'd rather use them as it would make the rack stiffer. P-clamps work great for an application like this so there really isn't anything to solve when it comes to fitting the rack to the Krampus.

The Scandal happens to have braze-ons in an ideal mounting spot so I used them.



bmike said:


> Actually seems over built for dry bag use. Will wait to see how it works on your trips.


It really depends what you plan to use the rack for. If you want it to be stable on techy singletrack it needs to be pretty burly. If you are only doing paved road trips that would a lot less demanding on the rack.

The only situation I need a rack for is when I want to run a dropper and I'd only bother with a dropper for techy singletrack. So I'm after a stiff rack.

If I was just riding buff singletrack or logging roads I'd use a rigid post and a bikepacking seatbag.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Do you think that rack would work mounted to the rear triangle of a full suspension bike? I can fit a seatbag on my bike now but then I can only drop the seat about 40mm. It seems with this I could have the rack be back behind the seat where the height of the seat wouldn't matter anymore. I've got adjustable dropouts and I like the way my OMM rack for my Mukluk uses the swinging dropout pivot bolts to attach the bottom of the main supports.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Welnic said:


> Do you think that rack would work mounted to the rear triangle of a full suspension bike? I can fit a seatbag on my bike now but then I can only drop the seat about 40mm. It seems with this I could have the rack be back behind the seat where the height of the seat wouldn't matter anymore. I've got adjustable dropouts and I like the way my OMM rack for my Mukluk uses the swinging dropout pivot bolts to attach the bottom of the main supports.


The main man at OMM [Channing] had this rack mounted to the rear of his personal FS bike as a test. So it's definitely possible. You'd need to chat with OMM about what the attachment points are on your bike and how they'd suggest fitting the rack.

OMM is really good about tweaking products to work with a variety of bikes.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

So I've got my version of what OMM is probably going to call the Little Mule rack. I just threw the stuff sack on there so I could see the clearance to the seat while the rack was being fitted. I'm planning on getting a waterproof stuff sack that is a little longer than the top of the rack and let it extend backwards past the end of the rack. The forward stays could have gone to the pivots at the top of the seatstays, but I like the adjustability of being able to put them at various spots with the p-clamps. Definitely the big plus for me is going to be full dropper post use with the full suspension.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks good. Let us know how you like it. :thumbsup:


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

What does your rig weigh?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking back over the last 15yrs+ my bike touring setups have steadily moved from heavy to lighter and from paved to dirt.

The OMM rack I'm trying out above is part of a plan to make my Krampus even more ready to attack singletrack.

Well the other idea I'm keen on is to be able to tour for a couple days on my FS long travel bike self-contained or many days with resupply stops.

Long travel and slack angles means tackling rough steep techy terrain becomes an option that's fun...not just survivable. Assuming I can pair down my gear enough to deal with a bike that's not framebag friendly.

So I'm working on the setup you see above with my Pivot Mach 6.

Of course as I get an even lighter enduropacking rig working well there's no reason not to go back to the Krampus and put it on a diet for a lot of rides.

One thing I can say for sure is that everytime I've downsized my gear I've smiled more as I pedal.










For my first kick at the cat I didn't want to go too extreme in terms of minimal gear to see how things would shake out. So I pretty much packed all my usual bikepacking gear less stove/fuel and cooking kit.

I have a complete solo UL tent, sleeping pad and bag. Full set of tools and spares. FA kit + InReach. GPS, headlamp and batteries. TP and toiletries.

Enough dry food that I can leave on day 1 ride all day, camp and ride all day 2 before getting back to resupply.

In practice I probably wouldn't do this kind of tour alone due to the likelihood of injury and/or bike damage in techy terrain. So I can split tools/emergency gear.

I also wouldn't likely take a tent. I'd either go with a tarp if I am solo....or the footprint, poles and fly of my 2 person UL tent for a deluxe tarp shelter.

All that to say this is the max I'd ever carry.

I packed the bike and took it on one of my favourite loops that showcases a solid selection of coastal BC terrain....think rocky rooty rolling terrain to start with lots of tight turns in the trees....then a smoother climbing trail to gain elevation with periodic rock features to get up....lots of big rocks at the top to punch over and down...and a solid downhill of steep loose dirt...with lots of turns, small drops, steep rock rollers and roots....with a few wooden structures to deal with.

What I would call middle of the road for our local trails. Not deadly or crazy strenuous, but not easy for very long...especially coming down.

How did it work?

I'm of two minds...on one hand it was so capable I couldn't help smiling. I rode all the same lines I do unloaded and I made every tech section on the trail. I walked the steepest most demanding climb more for a sense of caution than it couldn't be done...I'm too old to get hurt on a test run! 

Looking at it the other way the weight in my pack [which was mostly bulky light stuff other than water] definitely affected my riding. While I rode virtually everything including the drops it wasn't full attack mode. Perhaps that's not realistic for a bikepacking setup, but I'm really keen to go through my gear and drop my pack weight significantly [ditch tent and some cold weather gear] as well as attach more to the bike.

I feel like I am not far off the promised land where I can shred at nearly normal levels [on middle of the road gnar] with camping gear....that will be awesome! :thumbsup:

I've got some local tour ideas in mind to test out a lighter setup and prove the concept further.

I know I am not breaking any new ground.....but for me this is pretty exciting.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My buddy John ^^^ built this sweet coroplast framebox a few years ago for his FS Turner and has used it successfully bikepacking on several trips. It's held up like a champ and aside from some time costs pretty much nothing.










He came over to my man cave today and built me a box my Mach 6. We went max width to see what that looks like [~4.5"] and I think I'll knock that back to 3.5" wide as it looks a little goofy despite clearing my cranks no problem.










The box is just in "draft" shape at the moment. I need to unfold it and make it narrower then assemble it with tape and zipties and mount it to the bike with velcro.

It will hold tools and others supplies that I don't need frequently, but that I want to have on the tour while keeping my pack as light as possible. :thumbsup:


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## thumbprinter (Aug 29, 2009)

looking good vik


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been trying out the OMM Little Mule UL rack to see what I think. I'm loading it up with approximately what I would put into my Porcelain Rocket seatbag.

- UL solo tent body + fly
- sleeping pad
- tent pegs
- UL inflatable pillow [one of my luxury items!]










The best compliment I can pay it is to say that once it's loaded up and I am riding I don't notice it's there at all. I've done some techy singletrack riding on our chunky rocks and root infested terrain as a worst case test for any movement and the rack was solid.










My only criticism so far is that I'd like to see something on the rear of the rack that would stop my strap from sliding off the back if it were to work loose a bit. That hasn't happened, but I've see all sorts of failures on trips and that's one I can see happening to me at some point.

I'll probably put a thick wrap of electrical tape on each side of the rear of my rack to give the straps a "stop" they can bump up against if they try and work their way off the rear of the rack.


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## mdilthey (Dec 15, 2014)

vikb said:


> I've been trying out the OMM Little Mule UL rack to see what I think. I'm loading it up with approximately what I would put into my Porcelain Rocket seatbag.
> 
> - UL solo tent body + fly
> - sleeping pad
> ...


I've used a simple zip-tie as a stop, too.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Testing out the new dry bag only Old Man Mountain Products 29+ ready bike rack. Great when you want to use your dropper post on a trip where a traditional seat mounted bag/rack won't work.
Video overview coming soon, some initial info:
- Built like a tank
- Simple assembly
- Gobs of room for 29+ on 50mm rims
- 667 grams including all necessary mounting hardware
- Looks rad


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## grubetown (Sep 22, 2013)

Is this 29+ rack available to the public yet? My brother in law would be very interested. Thanks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

grubetown said:


> Is this 29+ rack available to the public yet? My brother in law would be very interested. Thanks.


I think so, but you'll have to call/email OMM to get that sorted out.

Old Man Mountain Products: Contact Us

Not the only difference between a 26er/27.5/29er or 29+ version of this rack is how long the vertical struts are. So it's easy to swap between bikes.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I finally made it out with my Lil' Mule rack loaded up. It seemed to work pretty well. I was unable to try it on serious terrain since at the moment with my fitness I can't even get out of town. The Voile straps are perfect for strapping the bag down, they have just enough stretch to secure the bag and are wide and tacky enough to keep it from moving back and forth. I ended up running them a little differently than in the picture, I put them both through the slots where the stays attach and then over the little platform on top of the rack. When they are put on as in the picture they are too close to the tire. I've got my 100 Miles of Nowhere tool bottle underneath the down tube.

It definitely does allow for full suspension travel with the seat down which is the big advantage over a seatbag.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


>












Thanks to Scott at Porcelain Rocket for humouring my Enduropacking schemes.

Bicycle Touring Gear from Porcelain Rocket

Adds a small, but handy amount of in-frame storage to the M6. :thumbsup:










Winter in the PNWet is time to dial the gear and plan the rides for next year.


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