# NOT enjoying carbon wheels on my hardtail



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

My salsa Timberjack is compatible with both 27.5+ and 29” wheels, and I’ve largely run it with 27.5+, but decided to experiment with the carbon 29er wheels off of my full-sus while I’m doing work on it. On the full-suspension, the carbon wheels were a notable improvement in ride quality and precision, but on the hardtail they’re mostly just painful. Even with 2.6” tires running relatively low pressure, the stiff rear wheel and frame seems to kill my momentum through bumpy/rooty sections going up or downhill. Anybody else have a similar experience? Would it be worth trying out a set of aluminum 29ers to try to get a little more compliance?


----------



## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I do not find Carbon wheels harsh. If anything I prefer the ride quality. Riding an HT is totally different than an FS. Line selection can help ensure a smoother ride as can seat posts as well as tires as you mentioned. Not all Carbon wheels are the same and I have found some to be more unforgiving than others. I had a pair of ENVE which were super stiff and I did not care for them. I generally I prefer the ride quality of a well laced Carbon wheel set on my HT all day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eno Esool (Mar 30, 2021)

I also have several sets of carbon wheels in different sizes and agree, not all carbon wheels are the same. I have found a sweet spot with Whiskey Parts 50 mm wheels (discontinued) I now have them on all of my FS bikes. I personally feel as though they flex better than my then my 25 mm Reynolds carbon fiber 29' wheels.


----------



## 2supple (Aug 29, 2020)

which carbon wheels are you running?


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

2supple said:


> which carbon wheels are you running?


Race face Next R 31. Though I am wondering if I should try out lower tire pressure - it’s my first set of carbon wheels so I’m pretty wary of run strikes.


----------



## 2supple (Aug 29, 2020)

Be careful. I played that game and cracked my Nobl TR37. Free replacement but still ends up costing time and money for a rebuild. I would try running a couple lightweight inserts. I'm really enjoying Rimpact - only 90g/insert and like $60/pair. I really notice the dampened vibration at the bike park and gives peace of mind for cracking a carbon rim. 

I also really like cushcore but up to you how much damping/weight/protection you want to add from an insert, with CC Pro at ~260g.


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I find many carbon wheels very harsh- SC Reserves and Specialized's gravel wheels, for example. I like Revel and even Ibis rims, though several are now making carbon rims more compliant. I bet alloy rims would be a big improvement for you, unless you can spring for something like Revel, Zipp, etc. They are really pricey so something like DT's alloy rims would be good. I have a set on a MTB (DT EX 511) and they are really comfy and still track well.


----------



## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

It would be nice to have "compliant" quantified in a way like spring rate


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

Flyer said:


> I find many carbon wheels very harsh- SC Reserves and Specialized's gravel wheels, for example. I like Revel and even Ibis rims, though several are now making carbon rims more compliant. I bet alloy rims would be a big improvement for you, unless you can spring for something like Revel, Zipp, etc. They are really pricey so something like DT's alloy rims would be good. I have a set on a MTB (DT EX 511) and they are really comfy and still track well.


I already have a decent alloy 29er front wheel, so I’m thinking of building an alloy wheelset with a rear insert, and just keeping the carbon wheels on the full-sus.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

Carbon wheels 'can' be harsher..but haven't you switched out 27.5 plus alloy for 29er carbon? I think it's more the fact you have gone from a low psi plus tyre to a regular 29 tyre reducing chatter absorption more than it is the rim. A 29 will have better rollover but it won't absorb small chatter and braking bumps etc better than a 27.5 plus at low pressure.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

What wheels/tires were you using when running 27.5+?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can buy overly stiff carbon wheels and compliant ones. I would stay away from the overly stiff ones on any bike including FS. I have two HTs one with metal rims and one with a compliant set of carbon rims. I don't notice any difference in ride quality. There probably is some, but it's small enough I don't pick it up when riding. If I was building new wheels I'd just metal rims.


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

snow snakes said:


> I already have a decent alloy 29er front wheel, so I’m thinking of building an alloy wheelset with a rear insert, and just keeping the carbon wheels on the full-sus.


My DT alloy rims are really comfy. My Revel rims are too, like I mentioned. the Ibis is slightly more stiff but still nice. You cannot go wrong with alloy now. You CAN go wrong with carbon, as nice as some are, if you pick the harsh ones. There is a reason some have great warranties. They are pretty overbuilt and strong, and just feel chattery and harsh when I compare them to my nicer rims/wheels. I do not like many of those overbuilt rims. I'd recommend those EX511s if the profile works for you. They are pretty tough too.


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

jonshonda said:


> What wheels/tires were you using when running 27.5+?


Front wheel was the stock WTB, rear is a DT 350 and a velocity blunt. Rekon rear, DHF front.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

snow snakes said:


> Front wheel was the stock WTB, rear is a DT 350 and a velocity blunt. Rekon rear, DHF front.


What width tires?


----------



## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

It's obvious that those wheels are terrible. You should box them up and ship them to me. I will dispose of them environmentally. 

I may have to test their terribleness for 5 or 6 years and report my findings back to you before environmental disposal.


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

jonshonda said:


> What width tires?


2.8


----------



## Grindup (9 mo ago)

Tires (2.8 vs 2.6, 27.5+ vs 29) might be contributing more of the feel than you think.


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

Grindup said:


> Tires (2.8 vs 2.6, 27.5+ vs 29) might be contributing more of the feel than you think.


Totally! Though I actually quite liked riding it with alloy 29ers and 2.5 aggressor/assegai last summer, now that I’m thinking. It doesn’t ultimately matter too much, since I’m planning on running cushcore rear in an alloy wheelset for the Timberjack in general or for rocky trips on the full-sus.


----------



## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

Generally though not always the lower the side profile of carbon rims the comfier they will feel...layup also matters but profile height is a good indicator...the deep dish Enve wheels are very harsh carbon rims. I had EX511 on my last bike and STANS carbon rims on this one...I would say the carbon ones are fairly comfy but the alloy dt Swiss was comfier..however there is no denying carbon rims feel much better when steering, they just feel more pressure is but what's more my ex511 were egg shaped and put of true after a few months...my carbon rims are in true 2 years later, that is the reason I prefer to run carbon, they just stay running straight for a lot longer and don't warp whatsoever...and I'm not exactly a pro rider, the dt ex511 are one of their burliest rims and I still knocked out of shape doing XC trails and street stuff.


----------



## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

I rode We Are One Faction wheels in my HT and love them. Compliant, smooth, quality. The Roval carbons I had before them were so harsh I almost swore off carbon altogether, especially in concert with a carbon frame. Now on a Ti HT with the WA1 wheels it’s bliss…..


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Darth Lefty said:


> It would be nice to have "compliant" quantified in a way like spring rate



We'll probably get there eventually.

But first, we'll probably get mansplained to with advertorials.

Berd spokes add a lot of compliance to _any_ wheel build, relative to metal spokes.

Pair Berds with a shallow profile rim and things get comfier and comfier.


----------



## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Thanks to the work done in the DIY UHMW thread a while ago we can look up the material and have an idea what the Berd spokes should do, just like we would with steel. We are talking about the rim here though. You know some engineer has an FEA but you also know they're never sharing it with us


----------



## vitaflo (Mar 6, 2021)

blaklabl said:


> I rode We Are One Faction wheels in my HT and love them. Compliant, smooth, quality. The Roval carbons I had before them were so harsh I almost swore off carbon altogether, especially in concert with a carbon frame. Now on a Ti HT with the WA1 wheels it’s bliss…..


Can confirm on the Rovals. I run alloy WTB's on my Chameleon and borrowed my friends carbon Rovals to try out for a bit. They were certainly faster to spin up since they were so much lighter, and they cornered great, but holy cow were they harsh. They were so fatiguing to ride, just constant chatter all thru the bike into the pedals, etc. I didn't swear off carbon altogether but do feel like alloy wheels are "good enough" these days, and you don't really need to worry about compliance with them.


----------



## Kobeashi636 (2 mo ago)

blaklabl said:


> I rode We Are One Faction wheels in my HT and love them. Compliant, smooth, quality. The Roval carbons I had before them were so harsh I almost swore off carbon altogether, especially in concert with a carbon frame. Now on a Ti HT with the WA1 wheels it’s bliss…..


I’m looking at making up some factions as well for a steel trail hardtail, I don’t want to ruin the smoother feel of a steel frame (my first one) by putting stiff jarring wheels on it, but was hoping some nice carbon wheels would help offset the weight difference vs my aluminum hardtail. Might go as far as considering BERDs but I think I would go up from the faction to the union (30mm IW) if im saving some weight with berds to get a stronger wheel that I don’t have to worry as much on the long haul of ever losing true or being damaged.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

A friend has the new hunt proven xc carbon and he claims it rides smoother than the hunt alu wheels he had before. The rim widths are different though..


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I ride steel hardtails primarily and have used a variety of carbon rims
1. Light bicycle
2. Reynolds i30/i28
3. Reynolds i31/i31.

I have never had a comfort issue with any of my wheels. However,
1. I always run inserts
2. rear psi is typically between 22-24.
3. Front is between 16-23 (depending on tire and terrain)

I bet a lot of what you are feeling is just the Salsa Timberjack frame when you don't have 27.5+ tires to cushion it.


----------



## snow snakes (Sep 13, 2021)

cassieno said:


> I ride steel hardtails primarily and have used a variety of carbon rims
> 1. Light bicycle
> 2. Reynolds i30/i28
> 3. Reynolds i31/i31.
> ...


Thank you! Yeah, it’s a stiff bike - if I run 29ers on it again this summer I will most likely throw a cushcore in the rear and see if that helps me any. I don’t mind the 27.5+ though.


----------

