# What to prioritize: Motor or Components?



## beerfriday (Oct 9, 2014)

Starting to think about my first eBike, but I definitely don't have an unlimited budget. 

I'll concede that I have a preference for Fox suspension and how it rides 'off the top' (yes, I know about volume spacers on Rock Shox  ) 

Looks like the bulk of the bikes that I would eye in my price range have Shimano motors. 

Seems like a lot of eBikes that are in my price range will have E7000 motors with Fox... or EP8s with Rock Shox 

I'm not averse to upgrading a year down the line on this component or that... but obviously the motors tend to be a little tougher to do that with... also seems like there isn't going to be much of a resale market for an E7000 take-off (like there might be on a take-off fork). 

This ultimately may be a E7000 v EP8 question. i.e. is newer that much better to sacrifice on other components?


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Yes, newer EP8 is noticeable improvement and I personally wouldn’t buy something that already out-dated. 

But for me, having a bigger battery is more important than motor brand or model. I think 500wh batteries are also getting outdated, and if you ride with people on newer bikes they will likely have bigger batteries and the whole ride you’ll have range anxiety, and/or have to turn back sooner. 

Components you can always upgrade and swap down the line. I would not worry too much about this.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Do not get a E7000 motor, unless you drive a Yugo.....or ride a Huffy!!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

My suggestion is look at Giant/Yamaha.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

As others have mentioned EP8 over E7000 and biggest battery possible. Beefy fork, brakes, and tires and you are ready to party down!


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

33red said:


> My suggestion is look at Giant/Yamaha.


After test riding different bikes/motors I decided on a bike with the Yamaha motor. 

I got a Giant Trance 2021.
While motor and battery are great, the bike is way too creaky. Have it now for half a year and rode 2500km. In order to keep it quite I had to clean and grease the headset, motor mounting bolts, seat tube and the pivots already 3 times. 

I never had a bike that creaks so much.
Next bike won't be Giant for sure.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Gutch said:


> As others have mentioned EP8 over E7000 and biggest battery possible. Beefy fork, brakes, and tires and you are ready to party down!


Another factor is ease of routine battery removal. For battery health, it is best to take the battery inside when it is too hot or too cold outside. It is also nice to remove that extra weight when lifting or transporting the bike. I am digging the Trek/Bosch system that has a little handle that pops out which minimizes the risk of dropping it.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

33red said:


> My suggestion is look at Giant/Yamaha.


Lets not forget Haibike if and when they are available


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Jack7782 said:


> Another factor is ease of routine battery removal. For battery health, it is best to take the battery inside when it is too hot or too cold outside. It is also nice to remove that extra weight when lifting or transporting the bike. I am digging the Trek/Bosch system that has a little handle that pops out which minimizes the risk of dropping it.


True, although I live down south and my bike is in my garage. I never take the battery out. The Trek-Bosch handle is very nice, had one!


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

OneTrustMan said:


> I got a Giant Trance 2021.
> While motor and battery are great, the bike is way too creaky. Have it now for half a year and rode 2500km. In order to keep it quite I had to clean and grease the headset, motor mounting bolts, seat tube and the pivots already 3 times.
> 
> I never had a bike that creaks so much.
> Next bike won't be Giant for sure.


I wouldn't blame it on the Giant. I have an S-works Levo and it also requires constant maintenance to keep it running smoothly. I think it's just a combination of these things being so heavy and the fact that you're generally going much faster and carrying more energy - they just end up taking much more of a beating than a normal bike.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

nilswalk said:


> I wouldn't blame it on the Giant. I have an S-works Levo and it also requires constant maintenance to keep it running smoothly. I think it's just a combination of these things being so heavy and the fact that you're generally going much faster and carrying more energy - they just end up taking much more of a beating than a normal bike.


I concur. My brother has a Giant and loves his. Pretty bulletproof really.


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

Look at a Rocky Mountain Powerplay. They have an A30 model that is reasonably priced. You can upgrade the suspension, brakes and wheels at a later date if your not happy with the original component.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> Another factor is ease of routine battery removal. For battery health, it is best to take the battery inside when it is too hot or too cold outside. It is also nice to remove that extra weight when lifting or transporting the bike. I am digging the Trek/Bosch system that has a little handle that pops out which minimizes the risk of dropping it.


In the dead of winter, it’s so cold in my garage (and in sheds in Fernie) that the batteries in mine won’t charge (which is a good thing). I found a simple workaround though using electric battery blankets wrapped around the down tubes. Works like a hot damn!








EDIT: old school hot water bottles work just fine too. I was using those before I started using the battery warmers. The car battery warmers are perfect - they provide really low heat which won’t damage the battery or down tube finish, but which keeps the battery nice and toasty warm. I was really stressing about this issue at first but this has proven to be a 100% solution.

I am super stoked about the upcoming e-fat bike season. We had the bikes out last week for a 54km blast deep in the mountains. We each had 2 of 5 bars of battery power left at the end, and we were using Trail and Boost modes throughout (never ECO mode). On ECO mode, I bet we could get 7 or 8 hours of riding, no problem.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Battery size and motor are the most important. E7000 is well known for issues due to it's plastic gears. EP8 seems to be doing well for most, but battery size is often compromised to keep cost down. Despite all the negative talk about Specialized and it's Brose motors, they're not all bad, and there are other brands with Brose and big batteries for reasonable prices. I've been very happy with my Bulls. The only failure on the bike in the year I've owned it has been the Fox rear shock.

.


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## beerfriday (Oct 9, 2014)

Kootbiker said:


> Look at a Rocky Mountain Powerplay. They have an A30 model that is reasonably priced. You can upgrade the suspension, brakes and wheels at a later date if your not happy with the original component.


Who is making the motors on these?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

beerfriday said:


> Who is making the motors on these?


RM his making their whole system. A few years back they bought the motor company and continue
the evolution. It is a canadian company who bought an other canadian company. You can check
their website.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Top three priorities when selecting an eMTB should be frame design, motor/drive system, and battery.


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## Macharza (Jun 1, 2013)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Top three priorities when selecting an eMTB should be frame design, motor/drive system, and battery.


Adding fourth reason.
- You have close support. Manufacturer Authorized Bike Service, where you can go to in case of problems


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I Totally agree with post # 18. I bought a 2020 Giant Ebike and also a 2021. I am close to one
and any other will do guarentee work. I would not buy an Ebike without close support.
I never needed it but it is important.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

33red said:


> I Totally agree with post # 18. I bought a 2020 Giant Ebike and also a 2021. I am close to one
> and any other will do guarentee work. I would not buy an Ebike without close support.
> I never needed it but it is important.


Great point. Even if you have a mainstream drive system/battery vendor but you bought from a direct-to-consumer company with crappy local support, you might be in for a bad experience if something goes wrong.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i would suggest the number one things to look for are motor reliability and battery size. the rest of the upgrades are way cheap in comparison...


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

33red said:


> I Totally agree with post # 18. I bought a 2020 Giant Ebike and also a 2021. I am close to one
> and any other will do guarentee work. I would not buy an Ebike without close support.
> I never needed it but it is important.


I have owned many direct to consumer bikes and the support I get is better than any bike shop could ever provide. I’ve had plenty of warranty issues (most my fault) with my ebikes and motor from Commencal and YT. With both companies will usually respond to me within 24 hours and go above and beyond what is expected. All I need to do is send one email, and I had a set of new cranks at my doorstep. (Pulled off a demo bike not in use because they didn’t have any in stock). For that same issue, I first went to my local bike shop because I thought it may be quicker, and they said they were back-ordered everywhere 3 months. Thought I was having a motor issue, no questions asked they had shimano ship me out a new motor within a week. I dare you to find any bike shop that will send you home with a brand new motor in the box when you think your may be having some issues. Most people are without their bikes for weeks who bought though a shop. Also, I don’t like shops working on my bike so this business model is even better for me.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

RBoardman said:


> I have owned many direct to consumer bikes and the support I get is better than any bike shop could ever provide. I’ve had plenty of warranty issues (most my fault) with my ebikes and motor from Commencal and YT. With both companies will usually respond to me within 24 hours and go above and beyond what is expected. All I need to do is send one email, and I had a set of new cranks at my doorstep. (Pulled off a demo bike not in use because they didn’t have any in stock). For that same issue, I first went to my local bike shop because I thought it may be quicker, and they said they were back-ordered everywhere 3 months. Thought I was having a motor issue, no questions asked they had shimano ship me out a new motor within a week. I dare you to find any bike shop that will send you home with a brand new motor in the box when you think your may be having some issues. Most people are without their bikes for weeks who bought though a shop. Also, I don’t like shops working on my bike so this business model is even better for me.


100% disagree with this, although I guess if you haven’t invested in a relationship with your LBS, and have instead chosen to save a few bucks here and there over the years by buying online, they aren’t going to go out of their way to help you when $hit gets real.

Over the past 20+ years, my LBS has never once let me down. Ever. Or any of my friends. They have stepped in numerous times and have rattled cages at the manufacturer and distributor level, and $hit has happened immediately. They have also given me and my biking buddies, bikes, wheels, and other components on a loaner basis for free, for weeks on end, so we aren’t twisting in the wind. It helps that they are massive, and that I have over 20 years of loyalty invested in them. I have built an incredible relationship with all of them there, which was the best thing I could have ever done.

If you are getting good service from YT and Commencal, judging from the hundreds of comments to the contrary at PB, you are in a very small minority. That would be a laughable suggestion to the masses who feel like they have been screwed over on warranty claims.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

IMO, the biggest thing is motor support. The rest is just a bike. I do everything on my bikes and hate taking them to shops. It’s a time thing and a PITA.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Gutch said:


> IMO, the biggest thing is motor support. The rest is just a bike. I do everything on my bikes and hate taking them to shops. It’s a time thing and a PITA.


Agreed. I have a leaky rear shock, and it's under warranty, but I'm seriously considering just buying a replacement and installing it myself because I don't want to deal with the hassle (and possible attitude) of the shop.


.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I think the motor is the biggest issue with bosch and Yamaha being the most reliable by far.
Next, get a bike that's been in production at least two years, so you're not a beta tester for them.

500 wh batteries are fine, good for about 3h of hard riding, any more and you will get best up

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

_CJ said:


> Agreed. I have a leaky rear shock, and it's under warranty, but I'm seriously considering just buying a replacement and installing it myself because I don't want to deal with the hassle (and possible attitude) of the shop.
> 
> 
> .


What shock do you have that’s leaking?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Gutch said:


> What shock do you have that’s leaking?


Fox Float DPS.


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## beerfriday (Oct 9, 2014)

mtnbkrmike said:


> 100% disagree with this, although I guess if you haven’t invested in a relationship with your LBS


I have great shops where I live fortunately, but I have to call this sentence out. 

It is not the consumer's responsibility to be invested in the shop/brand, but the shop's or brand's responsibility to be invested in their consumers. 

Sadly a bunch of bike mechanics & LBS lose track of this.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

beerfriday said:


> I have great shops where I live fortunately, but I have to call this sentence out.
> 
> It is not the consumer's responsibility to be invested in the shop/brand, but the shop's or brand's responsibility to be invested in their consumers.
> 
> Sadly a bunch of bike mechanics & LBS lose track of this.


Maybe not worded the greatest. But it would be naive to think they will (or should) cater to people with problems who have never bought anything there in the past, over others who have. That’s just good business, and how I would conduct myself in their shoes as well. 2 weeks in the queue, or dealt with same day. It’s our choice to make.

Can’t have it both ways. Save $3.99 on bike lube by buying online, or be able to get your rear wheel rebuilt in 3 hours with no labour cost so you don’t miss that afternoon’s ride. Pick a horse and go with it.

This may piss off people with no relationship with their LBS, who think they are being treated unfairly. Whatever. If one chooses to buy DTC to save a few bucks, that’s their choice. Live with it. In my view it’s a $hitty choice. But people are free to spend their hard earned money however they wish. I couldn’t care less. Just don’t complain after when you have to start a 15 page thread to get the attention of a DTC manufacturer for what is clearly a warranty claim. One email and my LBS is there for me to deal with all that BS on my behalf.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I buy my bike from the shop and then they will literally never see me again, unless I have warranty issues. They never stock any high end parts. “I can get them for you, be a few days” heck I can do the same. If you want to earn my business invest in some inventory.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Gutch said:


> I buy my bike from the shop and then they will literally never see me again, unless I have warranty issues. They never stock any high end parts. “I can get them for you, be a few days” heck I can do the same. If you want to earn my business invest in some inventory.


From other threads, I have come to realize that I am very fortunate. I have a half dozen shops within minutes of my house, that have been around forever (one for 65 years), that stock everything I need even during COVID (and I’m a total gear snob), and that are wicked places to hang out on rainy days. Here’s a representative example:








That place has a second satellite store, devoted to e-bikes.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I have a local shop that I've patronized since the mid 90s. I've bought a few bikes from them, I occasionally buy supplies and parts from them when I need than right now, AND I buy stuff online. Notably, I bought my ebike from an online supplier because my favored local shop only carries e-commuter bikes because of some sort of philosophical problem with class 1 eMTBs, and I couldn't get any other local shops to return my calls or answer emails about eMTB's last year around this time. Warranty coverage may cost me time and money, but for the $2k+ I saved over the prices being advertised by local shops who couldn't be bothered, I think I'll fair well enough.


.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

mtnbkrmike said:


> This may piss off people with no relationship with their LBS, who think they are being treated unfairly. Whatever. If one chooses to buy DTC to save a few bucks, that’s their choice. Live with it. In my view it’s a $hitty choice. But people are free to spend their hard earned money however they wish. I couldn’t care less.


For someone who couldn't care less you sure have a lot of opinions about the matter that you need to express!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

@nilswalk

Shots fired!

Isn’t that what we do here? Express opinions?


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

mtnbkrmike said:


> @nilswalk
> 
> Shots fired!
> 
> Isn’t that what we do here? Express opinions?


Sure. Just thought it was amusing how you kept saying how little you cared but then kept going on about it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

nilswalk said:


> Sure. Just thought it was amusing how you kept saying how little you cared but then kept going on about it.


Sorry about that. It’s been raining here. I may have been a little edgier than normal the last while. Duly noted. I will try to reign it in a bit 👍


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

I'll let my model year 2016 Haibike Full FatSix's odometer do some talking on this one....just turned over last week. Working on the next block of 1000 miles:










Problems? On one ride, my spoke magnet loosened up, causing the LCD display to start acting wonky. Pulled over, brought out my old tyme McGyver tool, aligned and tightened the magnet and off I went. After 11 thousand miles, my 44 tooth front sprocket and chain were severely worn, so I replaced both, using my Yamaha X9 service manual as a guide. That's it. 

In my area of NJ, bike shops are few and far in between. They likely never even heard of a Haibike or that Yamaha makes ebike drive motors and batteries. The only thing of importance to you regards to a factory warranty, is how they cover a defective frame as in, you detected a crack somewhere. I did have a bike shop across the river from me lace up the new Dyno Hub I bought for the bike; I did the rest of the light set up work. And that's the trick.... youtube has alot of Park repair videos that will keep you rolling. You can be your own bike mechanic. In my case, with local bike shop closures, that forced me to do my own work. 99% of the work in replacing components for something new, is easily achieved by the home bike mechanic. Everything mechanical, eventually breaks. But look on this forum and you will see lots of stories about failed Brose motors, Shimano with their own particular failures. Bosch likes you dependant on the LBS so they can access the failure codes in your drive system. Yamaha, up to the PWX-3, well, you don't find many stories of failure with these motors. Mind you, if something fails inside the Yamaha, there are no parts in the pipeline for sale in order to make repairs. It's always a straight up motor replacement if something lets go inside. The same can be said, however, for all the others, too.

I ride 12 months of the year and she just keeps on chugging along.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Very impressive mileage. How many flats in 16K miles? New Cassette too? Do you use a chain checker? Are you a commuter etc?


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> Very impressive mileage. How many flats in 16K miles? New Cassette too? Do you use a chain checker? Are you a commuter etc?


Thanks. Too many flats (mainly rear tire flats) to count. Went from tubes to tubes with Mr Tuffy's to tubeless and the expensive Dyna Plug plugging system back to tubes with Tannus Armour, which is what I presently run with. No flats with the TA and tubes in over a year, now.

Changed the rear cassette at the time I replaced the front sprocket & chain. No chain stretch tool, but that is my next tool to buy & use. 

Just ride for pleasure and health. I post on this site exclusively over on the fatbiking and health forum started by OldBear52. Nice little group of us there with some kind of health issue or the other. Since I am in northern Burlington County, NJ, my biking includes mostly flat asphalt as my daily rides, with excursions often on the nearby canal trails along the Delaware River. Plus 30 some odd miles to the east is the vast sugar sand fire road network in the NJ Pine Barrens. Daily rides are either 25 or 30 miles these days, all asphalt. Yes, I wear out Jumbo Jims with that kind of riding. I have 2 new JJ's waiting to be put on and with this supply chain crisis, I wound up getting them from Euro online bike supply shops. Did 100 mile daytrips to the NJ shore and back a couple times on this bike. The bike is a keeper and has basically replaced my Fatboy. The ebike drive just opens up the ability to go long distances like nothing else. Got 3 extra batteries to back up that long distance capability.









To the OP of this thread, this is what a used front chain ring with 11,000 miles looks like when you don't check for chain stretch! So it pays to do some self maintenance on your bike cause nobody knows your bike better than you do.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

WOW ! That is why i buy Yamaha, for me Reliability is VERY IMPORTANT.
Shimano and Specialize brag about selling lots of Ebike but i never saw 25,600kms from them.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

On a scale of 1-10, how easy or hard is it to change a flat with the Tannus Armour? 
Also, thanks for your story and the pictures of those shark teeth!


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> On a scale of 1-10, how easy or hard is it to change a flat with the Tannus Armour?
> Also, thanks for your story and the pictures of those shark teeth!


Little revisionist history, I did catch a rear flat with the Tannus, early spring of 2020. Quarter inch thorn that pricked the tube just enough to hole it. Changing the tube or patching it would be no harder than running withou the TA's. That thorn was a road side repair and was a piece of cake, after I get the rack mount on the through axle out of the way.

I've read that folks with narrower tires have some degree of difficulty that I just don't get with the 4.0 JJ's. 

Something to keep in mind with a fat tired TA set up: The tube size they recommend is about 2.6/2.8 inches in order to accomodate the thick TA. Since installing them, I've had little chance to go off-roading at sub 10 psi tire pressures. A 2.8 inch wide tube is not much leeway of give should you run over ground with some root or rock hits. So I would exercise caution. 

Hope the OP does not mind a little diversion from his original topic! So I'll leave with a few pics of the TA inside the JJ 4.0's:









Yep, that does fit into that tire/wheel assembly.









When ordering the TA liners and tubes, this is what they sent me. The old Maxxis fat bike tube will not fit in the TA, I tried. I noted, the valve core's in these are not removable. Was able to pick up some Trek 2.8 tubes that do have removable valve cores in case I want to add a bit of Slime for extra flat protection.









Lightly aired up, now it's just a matter of working it all into the JJ and 80mm rim.









Success!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Looks like a sweet $150 flat protection setup. I buy Kenda Thorn Proof inner tubes, and for non fat bikes, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus, haven't found thick tread fat tires yet at a reasonable price which for me is buying cheap.


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