# Update on my ebay carbon hardtail



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I built up one of the Chinese carbon hardtail frames from ebay back in December. At that time there was a lot of interest in the frames, but really no one with any experience or any reviews about how good they were. There also were many people who said it was Chinese junk that would disintegrate the minute it hit the trail. Well I have had it for 7 months and have been able to log quite a few miles on it, so I feel I can give a little bit of a review. First let me say that I have never ridden a carbon bike before, I have had quite a few nice aluminum and steel bikes, but never carbon. The closest I have come was a Jamis Dakota with carbon seat stays. This bike is light and stiff and climbs like crazy. I always liked the stiffness of aluminum, and this bike has that same stiffness that I love. However it is not anywhere near as harsh riding as an aluminum frame, which is nice. The headtube and bottom bracket are pretty beefy, and I do not notice any flex in these areas. I really have no complaints with how it rides. One of the biggest questions was whether these were durable. Well I have had a few good wrecks on this bike, a lot of large rocks hitting the downtube and chainstays and have had no problems whatsoever. The clear paint on this frame is extrememy stong and durable and does a good job of protecting the carbon. One thing to be careful with, the chainstays are very thick, so there is not much clearance for the rotor when removing/installing the wheel, I ended up putting a big scratch in the clearcoat with the rotor. So I have now put a chainstay patch on the inside of the chainstay to avoid doing this anymore. When I initially built this bike I figured I would only use it for light XC type trails. But I have enough confidence in it that I have slapped a 2.35 Nevegal on the front and hit some trails with rockgardens and rocky descents. I have had no problems at all. All I can say is that for $280.00 this frame is awesome. Maybe a high end carbon hardtail would make me see what is lacking in this frame, but in comparison to the aluminum bikes I have ridden, this frame is so much better. I would highly recommend this frame for anyone who wants a nice light XC bike for not a lot of money. Just as long as you can deal with a generic frame and people telling you your frame is Chinese junk. I'll be riding mine hard, if it breaks I'll be sure to let everyone know!


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

is that seller still on ebay - looks like a decent frame from the pics.

Do you mind posting the bike's specs - and your total 'riding' cost?

I have been thinking of building something from scratch, but the frame costs are so high that is why I havent done it - and or scared buying a foreign frame/something I cant touch first/or used and abused....

nice looking ride!


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

jbsmith said:


> is that seller still on ebay - looks like a decent frame from the pics.
> 
> Do you mind posting the bike's specs - and your total 'riding' cost?
> 
> ...


When I bought it, there were only a few on ebay. If you search for "carbon mountain frame" you will see so many of these frames now. Here is one from the specific guy I bought from (88bikefun) http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1240|293:1|294:50

I will try my best to list my parts and prices, but some of the stuff I moved from my old bike, so I don't really have prices for those parts. I will include shipping in the price where possible. My total cost is around $1500. But in reality that is a steal for a carbon bike equipped with almost all top of the line parts. The weight is around 22lbs. It could easily be made lighter for a little more investment. It also could be built cheaper, but it would be heavier. For instance Jenson has a complete LX build kit (includes everything but frame and fork) for less than $500.

Frame: ebay Carbon $335
Fork: Mantiou MRD R7 $360
Brakes: Avid Juicy 5 $100
Vuelta XRP wheels: $269
Cane Creek Thudbsuter: $80
Seat: Rocket V SLT: $100
Pedals: Ritchey WCS $149
Front Derailleur: XT $42
Rear Derailleur: XTR (from old bike)
Stem: Zion (Jenson house brand) 
Tires: Kenda Nevegal (front) Karma (rear) $60
Shifters: XT (from old bike)
Cranks: FSA Afterburner (from old bike)
Handlebar: Easton CT2 (bought this back in 1999 and its still going strong!)
Grips: Ritchy WCS foam $7


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

sweet - thanks for the seller. Be cool if you could do an update after even more riding....


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## Bikin' Bric (Sep 7, 2003)

Looks good, I'm digging the red colour scheme thing.


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## jbsmith (Aug 3, 2008)

i found the seller on ebay - i think i might build up a carbon roadie - already have 3 mtb's, been thinking a while now about getting on the road in the morning before work


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

Where did you get the red Avid J5 brakes for $100?


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## chris1911 (May 26, 2009)

People may laugh at it being generic, but i would not be surprised if the company that made that frame also makes frames for the popular brands.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

If people hate on your bike for being cheap they are losers I wouldn't want to ride with. See what they have to say when you dust them on a bike that cost way less than theirs. The guys I ride with may ride cheap stuff, but most of them prove that you can be fast on a cheap bike. Anyway, the build looks good. I may give one of those a try one day.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Its the same frame as those pedalforce group buys a few years ago. There are still dozens if not hundreds of the frames available on ebay, and could the OP measure the radius for wheel clearance from axle to top of seatstay/chainstay bridge points. I'm thinking of 650B'ing one but I need 14 inches of clearance.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> Its the same frame as those pedalforce group buys a few years ago. There are still dozens if not hundreds of the frames available on ebay, and could the OP measure the radius for wheel clearance from axle to top of seatstay/chainstay bridge points. I'm thinking of 650B'ing one but I need 14 inches of clearance.


I will make the measurement when I get home. I am skeptical about a 650b fitting. The tubing is all pretty thick in the back, so I am not sure if there is much room, but as I said I will measure for you.

The Juicy 5s came from Full Cycles, they were having some type of clearance sale. However they were not red when I got them. I used Duplicolor red metalcast paint. it is a clear red paint that is used to give things an anodized look. Since it is clear the Avid logos still show through. I disassembled the levers (I did not have to take off the hoses, so no bleeding was needed) sanded them with 400 sandpaper and sprayed them with the metalcast paint. They look great and the paint is very durable, it is made to be used in engine compartments, so it is tough and is heat and solvent resistant. Heres a close up pic. Also a link to the paint.

https://www.duplicolor.com/products/metalcast.html


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

RatchAttack said:


> Looks good, I'm digging the red colour scheme thing.


A lot of people are building these things up all black. I gotta have some color. It actually looks much better in person. In the pics all the reds look different, but in person they match pretty well.


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## pogliaghi (Oct 26, 2008)

Sweet! Nice build, looks like PP sources the same frame (looks pretty darn close anyways) for their Impulse carbon frame. Except yours is a better deal.


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## njhcx4xlife (Jan 9, 2006)

Nice ride, especially for the price. My bank account hates you because you just put ideas in my head.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

DeeEight, I measured the frame. There is only 13.5" of clearance, so I don't think it will work for a 650b.


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## andy85 (Apr 27, 2009)

man thats pretty nice...

i might think of building one soon!!

pretty nice, cheap and light bike if im planning to put decent components on it =]


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## Kyle0614 (May 6, 2008)

specs for the ebay carbon frame in 18" size not sure if this is the exact one like above but was only searching in my size I guess.

Frame Size: 18"

Material: carbon (12K)

Top tube: 575mm

Head tube: 140mm

Wheel Size: 26"

Disc Brake : yes

V-Brake: With Bosses

Standover: 829.5mm

ChainStay: 425mm

BB Width: 68mm

BB tpye: English Thread

Seatpost size: 31.6mm

Seat Post Clamp: 34.9mm

Derailleur Mount: Band Mount

Headset size: 1 1/8" Integrated

Weight : 1250g 

this is the Sette Phantom Cabon Frame from pricepoint almost twice the price hardly any difference besides 150grams lighter. still 12k carbon

Material 12K Carbon
Welding N/A
Recommended Fork Suspension Travel 80-100mm
Headset 1-1/8" Semi-Integrated/ Internal (Zero Stack)
Front Derailleur 34.9mm Clamp Type, Down Swing Dual Pull
Bottom Bracket 68mm, English
Rear Hub Spacing 135mm
Max Rear Tire Clearamce 2.3"
Seatpost Size 31.6mm
Seat Clamp Size 34.9mm
Brake Mount IS 51mm Standard Disc or V-Brake (bosses included)
Available Sizes Small (15"/38cm), Medium (17"/43cm), Large (19"/48cm), X-Large(21"/53cm)
Color (s) Carbon
Weight 1100g/2.4 lbs (Medium Size Avg.)

$599

hell, the ebay ones are a pretty good bang for the buck in my opinion. I'd buy it if I had some extra dough


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

As mentioned above the Sette Impulse from Price Point looks to be the exact same frame. The carbon frames from PP are a pretty good deal. Yes they are more than the ebay ones, but they also come with a warranty. But I also think the frames do not look as good with the cheesy Sette graphics.


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## njhcx4xlife (Jan 9, 2006)

lj, how tall are you and what is your inseam? I'm thinking about picking up one of these frames but am not sure what size. I'm 5'7" and 27-28" inseam.

Oh yeah, my other question is where do you get der hangers for these things? Looks like they are replaceable.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

njhcx4xlife said:


> lj, how tall are you and what is your inseam? I'm thinking about picking up one of these frames but am not sure what size. I'm 5'7" and 27-28" inseam.
> 
> Oh yeah, my other question is where do you get der hangers for these things? Looks like they are replaceable.


I am 5' 10" with a 32" inseam. My frame is an 18". At your height I think a 16" would work well. The hanger is replaceable, I am not sure what type it is though. I've never bent a hanger so I never worry to much about that.


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## njhcx4xlife (Jan 9, 2006)

Thanks for the help. Thats a sweet ride you have there for sure.


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## dAMIAn78 (Aug 6, 2007)

Man, sweet bike..I'm so tempted to build one of these up to replace my k2 singlespeed. I may have missed it but what headset was used? Jenson lists integrated 41mm and zerostack 44mm, just trying to get my overall cost figured out before I commit to anything.

Thanks.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

dAMIAn78 said:


> Man, sweet bike..I'm so tempted to build one of these up to replace my k2 singlespeed. I may have missed it but what headset was used? Jenson lists integrated 41mm and zerostack 44mm, just trying to get my overall cost figured out before I commit to anything.
> 
> Thanks.


It uses a zerostack headset. It came with a cheap NECO headset, I did not use it because it didn't properly shield the bearings. I used a Cane Creek ZS-2.


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## Lule (May 4, 2009)

Looks sweet! The first thing that I noticed was the lack of stickers/advertising...nice and clean. You're going to drive people nuts not having a name spattered all over the tubes.

-Lule


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Lule said:


> Looks sweet! The first thing that I noticed was the lack of stickers/advertising...nice and clean. You're going to drive people nuts not having a name spattered all over the tubes.
> 
> -Lule


I like the clean look without stickers. People at the trails will ask me what kind of bike it is since it has no stickers. I just call it my ebay carbon bike. Maybe I should put ebay stickers on it (just kidding). I have seen a few people who have these and they put name brand bike stickers on it to trick people into thinking it is a big brand. Personally I find that kind of cheesy, like they are ashamed to ride a generic frame.


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## 88mustanggt (Nov 8, 2008)

just make up a name, and put it on there. it would be to funny if someone was like " oh i heard about those, they are good bikes."


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## Lule (May 4, 2009)

How about 'eBay Carbon' in Chinese characters?


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Lule said:


> How about 'eBay Carbon' in Chinese characters?


LOL


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## Kyle0614 (May 6, 2008)

"chinese characters" those must be the peeps I saw running around in the olympics. I think you mean Kanji lettering


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## j944 (Feb 24, 2006)

Nice build...I think a carbon HT will be in the works come time for my winter build.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

That is an extremely nice bike for what you have invested in it. It would be a good idea if I traded in my 5 pound steel frame for one of those. Did you happen to weigh the frame before building it up?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Rod said:


> That is an extremely nice bike for what you have invested in it. It would be a good idea if I traded in my 5 pound steel frame for one of those. Did you happen to weigh the frame before building it up?


Yes I did weigh it. My 18" frame was 1280g (2.8 lbs). Not superlight for a carbon frame, but for the price pretty good. The ebay ad stated it was 1250g, so it was a little over, but not a big deal.


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## Trek7000rider (Sep 7, 2008)

Not to hijack the thread- but would I notice a bigger impact in bike performance upgrading my Forte Terramax wheelset to Pure XCR's with XT hubs or my 1998 Trek 7000ZX frame to one of these "ebay carbon frames"


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Trek7000rider said:


> Not to hijack the thread- but would I notice a bigger impact in bike performance upgrading my Forte Terramax wheelset to Pure XCR's with XT hubs or my 1998 Trek 7000ZX frame to one of these "ebay carbon frames"


You would be best getting wheels. Reciprocating weight or unsprung weight, has a huge impact on acceleration and climbing. Adding lightweight wheels and tires will be more noticeable than any other upgrade you can make. Once you have a nice set of lightweight wheels, fork and cranks, then is the time to start thinking about lightweight frames. I would go with the Vuelta Team SL wheels like I have on my bike. They are under 1600g and cost about $270 shipped from bikeisland.com. The Pure XCR wheels are not as light as this when built with XT hubs.


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## Trek7000rider (Sep 7, 2008)

thanks for the response. is durability a concern with the Vuelta Team SL? I do like to ride somewhat aggressively, jumping whenever I can (however, I am a pretty light guy ~140lbs)


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Trek7000rider said:


> thanks for the response. is durability a concern with the Vuelta Team SL? I do like to ride somewhat aggressively, jumping whenever I can (however, I am a pretty light guy ~140lbs)


I weigh 190, and I have probably put over 1000 miles on mine and they are still perfectly true. My friends have been so impressed with them that they bought some also. But they are XC wheels, so if you are talking about 5 foot drops, then no they are not that durable. But typical aggresive trail riding is no problem. Keep in mind that the Pure XCR rims are also lightweight XC rims. And if built up with light spokes probably aren't very strong.


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## Trek7000rider (Sep 7, 2008)

Ok, thanks for the response. I dont plan on doing anything really big with them, I am just a little more aggressive in the way I ride. but it should be fine because I am pretty light.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Its the same frame as those pedalforce group buys a few years ago. There are still dozens if not hundreds of the frames available on ebay, and could the OP measure the radius for wheel clearance from axle to top of seatstay/chainstay bridge points. I'm thinking of 650B'ing one but I need 14 inches of clearance.


The 650b doesn't really work. I have 2 of these frames. I put a 650b with the Quasimoto tire on the rear. The tire has about 1-2mm of clearance on the chain/seatstay bridge. That was when the tire was new, using Stans. As the tire grows, it will rub. While I rode it, too many things would get caught and rub.

Running a RaceKing 2.2 in the rear of the frame is almost as tall. The radius of this tire is maybe 3/8" smaller.

The frame is nice, and rides well, yet is stiff at the BB. What's scary is the area around the water bottle bosses on the DT is so thin, that you can easily flex the carbon with your fingers using very little effort.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

rensho said:


> The frame is nice, and rides well, yet is stiff at the BB. What's scary is the area around the water bottle bosses on the DT is so thin, that you can easily flex the carbon with your fingers using very little effort.


This is true. When I first got the bike I noticed the exact same thing with the downtube flexing when you press on it. I was concerned until I went to the LBS and did the same thing to name brand carbon frames and felt the same flexing.


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## foofighter275 (Jul 18, 2007)

i'm really glad there is an inexpensive option out there for anyone that wants to dabble w/ CF mtn bikes amazing to think that this frame could be made by the same company that makes um for the more expensive brands.

Personally i dont mind the no branding as it's more stealth gives it a more "prototype" look to it. If i can swing it i would love to build me one of these...


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## jazzboy (Mar 21, 2007)

Here is mine with parts ranging from 1993 to present. It rides incredibly well!


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## tsull247 (Jun 17, 2008)

*headset for ebay carbon frame*

Is the required size a zero stack intergrated 44mm?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

tsull247 said:


> Is the required size a zero stack intergrated 44mm?


Yes


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## Ruger (Jan 22, 2009)

Sweet!

Nice bikes!

Would make a killer Singlespeed!


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Biospace?


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

Suntour XC Pro? It looks non-biopace to me though.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

the rings look oval shaped to me....

Center pull brakes? Wow...


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## Ricisan (Aug 30, 2006)

*Super Hybrid?*

My 97 DB frame has a nice fork, wheelset and running gear. A new frame is next. I would like something a little slower than the 71.5 head angle I have now.
Do you have the frame specs? TIA

R


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## jazzboy (Mar 21, 2007)

Kona0197 said:


> Biospace?


no, just good old round DX.

Cheers:thumbsup:


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## RB Racing (Aug 23, 2008)

What length is your steering stem?
Thanks.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Ricisan said:


> My 97 DB frame has a nice fork, wheelset and running gear. A new frame is next. I would like something a little slower than the 71.5 head angle I have now.
> Do you have the frame specs? TIA
> 
> R


With an 80mm fork it is 71 deg. I used a 100mm fork which slackens it up a bit. Below is the geometry chart for the 18" frame.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

RB Racing said:


> What length is your steering stem?
> Thanks.


Originally it was 115mm. Now I am running a 120mm.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

My bike has now passed its 1 year anniversary and is still going strong! I noticed my pics were gone, so I will repost them for anyone interested. I have changed the bike a little bit. I went to a 120mm Ritchey WCS stem, and went tubeless with Stans and run a Specialized The Captain 2.0 front tire, and a Stans Raven 2.2 rear tires. This is a great setup, fast and grippy.



















And for those looking to use 650b, it doesn't really fit, at least the 2.1 Nevegal I tried. It fits but really has no clearance. Maybe a Quasimoto might fit.


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## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

that sounds like a great deal for a carbon frame


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## Fly XC (Oct 17, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> My bike has now passed its 1 year anniversary and is still going strong! I noticed my pics were gone, so I will repost them for anyone interested. I have changed the bike a little bit. I went to a 120mm Ritchey WCS stem, and went tubeless with Stans and run a Specialized The Captain 2.0 front tire, and a Stans Raven 2.2 rear tires. This is a great setup, fast and grippy.
> 
> How is the fit and finish of the frame? I'm considering one to swap all the components of a 2010 Motobecane Fly Pro that I bought in sze 14 (too small for me):madman: . What do you think?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Fly XC said:


> How is the fit and finish of the frame? I'm considering one to swap all the components of a 2010 Motobecane Fly Pro that I bought in sze 14 (too small for me):madman: . What do you think?


The frame is beautiful, the fit and finish are perfect, the clear coat on it is super shiny. It really looks like a very high end frame. I get compliments on it on the trail often. It would be a great candidate to swap your Fly parts to, you will probably drop about a pound of weight too. The only thing that won't swap over is the seatpost, my 2008 Fly has a 27.2 seatpost so I guess yours is the same. The frame takes a 31.6mm seatpost, so you will need a new post, or you can get a shim. The only other thing to worry about is that if you are going to a larger frame size, the headtube will likely be longer and your steerer tube on your fork may not be long enough.


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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

*LJ question for you*

I ride in Vancouver and as you know or have heard we have all types of riding here.
Anyway I have an aluminium SS and was thinking about a frame as yours for SS. The question I have is I am a big guy, 6'1 250 and when I torque my SS it really torques , so I am curious about the flex in the frame if any... I know carbon is stiffer where it needs to be than other materials, as I had a carbon bar and I put it through hell and nothing happened to it, no flex nothing. I use the SS mostly for singletrack and a lot of rocky rooty log type stuff... my SS currently wdighs in at around 30 lbs with the alumonium frame,...


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## Fly XC (Oct 17, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> The frame is beautiful, the fit and finish are perfect, the clear coat on it is super shiny. It really looks like a very high end frame. I get compliments on it on the trail often. It would be a great candidate to swap your Fly parts to, you will probably drop about a pound of weight too. The only thing that won't swap over is the seatpost, my 2008 Fly has a 27.2 seatpost so I guess yours is the same. The frame takes a 31.6mm seatpost, so you will need a new post, or you can get a shim. The only other thing to worry about is that if you are going to a larger frame size, the headtube will likely be longer and your steerer tube on your fork may not be long enough.


Thanks for your reply. The seatpost has to be changed (no big deal) and will go to take measures of the head tube lenght. At this moment it has 2 spacers so i think there will be no problem, but will check this before ordering. Thanks again.:thumbsup:


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## Fly XC (Oct 17, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> The only other thing to worry about is that if you are going to a larger frame size, the headtube will likely be longer and your steerer tube on your fork may not be long enough.


My fly pro has a 110mm head tube and it actually use 2 spacers of about 25mm each. So a 135mm head tube (16 frame) will require one spacer removal for a perfect fit. Think will be ordering soon...


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

wickerman1 said:


> I ride in Vancouver and as you know or have heard we have all types of riding here.
> Anyway I have an aluminium SS and was thinking about a frame as yours for SS. The question I have is I am a big guy, 6'1 250 and when I torque my SS it really torques , so I am curious about the flex in the frame if any... I know carbon is stiffer where it needs to be than other materials, as I had a carbon bar and I put it through hell and nothing happened to it, no flex nothing. I use the SS mostly for singletrack and a lot of rocky rooty log type stuff... my SS currently wdighs in at around 30 lbs with the alumonium frame,...


The frame is very stiff, just as stiff as any aluminum frame I have ridden. But I weigh 190 and am riding geared. It is hard to say how it would feel for a 250lb. rider running single speed.


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## Fly XC (Oct 17, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> The only other thing to worry about is that if you are going to a larger frame size, the headtube will likely be longer and your steerer tube on your fork may not be long enough.


Do you think that I have to replace the front derallieur because of the clamp size?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Fly XC said:


> Do you think that I have to replace the front derallieur because of the clamp size?


It depends on the derailleur you have. The ebay frames need a high clamp, top pull 34.9 clamp derailleur. The Fly has a 31.6 clamp, however I think all of the newer Shimano front derailleurs are one size fits all and use shims to fit on smaller seat tubes. So if you have one of the newer Shimanos, then all you need to do is remove the shims and you are good to go, assuming it is a high clamp derailleur.


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## the_owl (Jul 31, 2009)

Looks like Homegrown geometry.


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## Fly XC (Oct 17, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> It depends on the derailleur you have. The ebay frames need a high clamp, top pull 34.9 clamp derailleur. The Fly has a 31.6 clamp, however I think all of the newer Shimano front derailleurs are one size fits all and use shims to fit on smaller seat tubes. So if you have one of the newer Shimanos, then all you need to do is remove the shims and you are good to go, assuming it is a high clamp derailleur.


My front derailleur is low clamp, so it will not work. Have to buy a high clamp new front d... Hope there will be no other problem.
Thank You.


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## Precab (Jun 30, 2005)

Been riding one of these ebay carbons for a year at 228lbs as a SS. Love it. Even put CHINA flag stickers on the frame near the headset as badges of origin. Better Than branding or taking too many questions.


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

I think one of these frames will be my next upgrade. I'll more than likely SS it.


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## Puddle Racer (Mar 15, 2004)

Just the post I was looking for! Thanks for the product reviews. I'm sure they are using the same mold & materials as a brand name. (The clean up guy on G/Y shift punching out a few on his breaks!) Want to get one, but the 16" seems too big. Noramlly ride a Small as I'm 5'-6" with a 28' inseam. 563mm Top Tube sounds way too long.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Looks like they're doing full suspension now, too. Never cared for cable guides on the top of the top tube.

https://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Carbon-Full-Suspension-Frame-L-19_W0QQitemZ370344474896QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMountain_Bikes?hash=item563a403910


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

I think I might get one of these I have been wanting to get a carbon frame to replace my Avalanche frame


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

I just ordered mine. I actually got one with a 3k Carbon Fiber.

So, what are the characteristics of each weave that Storck uses in relation to our bicycles?

1K - 1K is a very rare fiber used in the cycling industry. It is lighter than other fibers and provides a more supple ride than a larger weave. These smaller carbon fibers also display the incredible amount of craftsmanship needed to complete one of our bikes. The Fascenario 0.7 is the only model in the Storck line that features this coveted carbon.

2K - 2K is the rarest carbon fiber available on the market. It is produced by no more than 2 carbon manufacturers in the world. The Fascenario 0.7IS is the only bicycle in the world featuring this carbon. 2K carbon provides the optimum ride characteristics to pair with our VVC frames. This gives the bike perfect stiffness, low weight, and great vertical compliance (comfort).

3K - 3K is the most common carbon fiber that you will find externally on a bicycle. It provides a comfortable ride while still allowing the bike to be stiff and strong enough to handle a powerful rider in the midst of his/her best sprint.

12K - 12K is the largest weave and the stiffest. This outer layer featured on the Fascenario 0.8 makes for the stiffest "feeling" ride of all three. It is slightly heavier and much less expensive to use in production, hence the price difference in the Fascenario 0.7 and the Fascenario 0.8.

Uni-Directional - Uni-Directional (UD) carbon is another type of carbon fiber that can be used to create a carbon bicycle. UD carbon has fibers that run the same way rather than being woven together. This carbon is used on the Fenomalist and Aero UD in the Storck line-up.

http://www.storckbicycle.com/usa/index.php?c=tech&s=carbonfiber


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

jeffw-13 said:


> Looks like they're doing full suspension now, too. Never cared for cable guides on the top of the top tube.
> ]


I saw these. But I think the price is a little high for me to want one without riding it. Building a FS frame requires much more engineering than a HT, I would be afraid that the suspension design would not work very well. And while it looks really sweet, it weighs about the same as my aluminum Sette Ace frame. Maybe if it were around $400 or $500 I would be willing to take a risk, but not $700.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> I saw these. But I think the price is a little high for me to want one without riding it. Building a FS frame requires much more engineering than a HT, I would be afraid that the suspension design would not work very well. And while it looks really sweet, it weighs about the same as my aluminum Sette Ace frame. Maybe if it were around $400 or $500 I would be willing to take a risk, but not $700.


I agree with you. The only reason I got this frame was because you said you had great success with it. I am hoping it's here next week. As soon as I get it together I will post pics up.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

People often ask if this frame is used by any bike companies. I do not know for sure, but there are a lot that certainly look like it. I thought I would post a few I have seen. If there are any others out there post em up!

Fuji Mt. Fuji Comp









Tony Hawk CN3 (looks like the 2nd gen of these frames)









Sette Impulse


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## Bigrocks (May 14, 2004)

You guys think it would OK to run a 130mm Z1 on one of these frames...? I have always wanted a All Mountain carbon HT.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Bigrocks said:


> You guys think it would OK to run a 130mm Z1 on one of these frames...? I have always wanted a All Mountain carbon HT.


I would not. The seller told me that they are designed for 80mm with 100mm being the max. Keep in mind that carbon fibers are laid up in specific directional patterns based on the stresses and strains of a given area of the bike. Putting a fork that long on would drastically alter the angles at which the headtube fibers are loaded, thereby putting loads on the fibers in directions that they were never intended to bear.


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## Ricisan (Aug 30, 2006)

*Changing Frames?*

I have made my 97 DB HT into an MTB/Slicks. My frame is a little too small and I want to upgrade to something bigger/better/lighter. I'm a little concerned that my updated pieces from my DB will fit new CF frame. My DB has a 71* head angle and the CF has a 
71.5* head angle. The extra head angle can't hurt either.
I have some very nice parts that I do not want to replace for a new frame. R7 forks, 
1x9 drive, TB and everything but the frame is new. What am I missing that I need to know? Thoughts please. TIA

R


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Ricisan said:


> I have made my 97 DB HT into an MTB/Slicks. My frame is a little too small and I want to upgrade to something bigger/better/lighter. I'm a little concerned that my updated pieces from my DB will fit new CF frame. My DB has a 71* head angle and the CF has a
> 71.5* head angle. The extra head angle can't hurt either.
> I have some very nice parts that I do not want to replace for a new frame. R7 forks,
> 1x9 drive, TB and everything but the frame is new. What am I missing that I need to know? Thoughts please. TIA
> ...


You need the following parts:

34.9 low clamp top pull front derailleur (you are 1 x 9 so you won't need this)

34.9 seatpost clamp

31.6mm seatpost (or smaller post with shim)

68mm bottom bracket

zero stack headset

You also need to make sure your steerer tube on your R7 is long enough. Because you are going to a larger frame size, the headtube may be longer and your steerer tube may be too short.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> You need the following parts:
> 
> 34.9 low clamp top pull front derailleur (you are 1 x 9 so you won't need this)
> 
> ...


I am good on all those parts I do have a question I do have a new Shimano SLX crankset and for the bottom brack its 73mm with spacers so I would use that without the spacers to achieve 68mm right?


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## KevinB (Oct 5, 2004)

Prostreet513 said:


> I am good on all those parts I do have a question I do have a new Shimano SLX crankset and for the bottom brack its 73mm with spacers so I would use that without the spacers to achieve 68mm right?


No, you'll need the spacers in order to make the BB fit. (You'd use no spacers with a 73mm BB shell. Edit: You use all 3 spacers for a 68mm shell and a standard derailleur; you use 1 spacer for a 73mm shell w/ a standard derailleur; you use no spacers for a 73mm shell with an E-type derailleur.)


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

KevinB said:


> No, you'll need the spacers in order to make the BB fit. (You'd use no spacers with a 73mm BB shell. Edit: You use all 3 spacers for a 68mm shell and a standard derailleur; you use 1 spacer for a 73mm shell w/ a standard derailleur; you use no spacers for a 73mm shell with an E-type derailleur.)


This is correct. Because a 68mm bottom bracket is 5mm narrower than a 73mm, you need an additional 2.5mm spacer on each side.


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

that full suspension carbon frame looks nice but the ad doesn't say how much travel it has. anyone know?


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

I just got this finished today. Here is mine

Frame: 3x Carbon Fiber Frame 
Fork: Fox F100 32 RLC 100mm 
Brakes: Avid BB7 Mechanical Disc 
Rotors: Alligator Serration 
Cassette: Shimano LX 11-32 
Headset: FSA Orbit 
Chain: Shimano LX 
Crankset: Shimano SLX 
Front Derailleur: Shimano Deore XT 
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Deore LX 
Shifters: Shimano Deore LX
Grips: WTB Trail Grips
Handlebars: Sette CarbonFiber Flat Bars
Stem: Sette Edge O/S 31.8 
Levers: Avid Speed Dial 7 levers 
Pedals: Cook Candy Clipless 
Seatpost: Ritchey Comp 
Saddle: WTB Speed Rocket 
Spokes: DT Swiss Bladed 
Hubs: Shimano Deore XT 
Rims: Vuelta XRP Pro 
Tires: Kenda Nevegal


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## suprcivic (Aug 17, 2008)

> Tires: Kenda Nevegal


Is that the new Nevegal Street version?


----------



## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

Haha no those are actually Michelin City Tire the trails are too muddy to ride without tearing them up so I put on those for now


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

What shock is the dual suspension using? Doesn't look familiar.


----------



## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Jim311 said:


> What shock is the dual suspension using? Doesn't look familiar.


Kind Shock 
Probably a variation of the A-TWO

http://www.kindshock.com.cn/en/products.asp?fid=67&fid2=&id=695


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

suprcivic said:


> that full suspension carbon frame looks nice but the ad doesn't say how much travel it has. anyone know?


I would guess 100mm. I am sure the seller could tell you if you asked.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Prostreet513 said:


> I just got this finished today. Here is mine


Looks pretty sweet. How does it ride, I guess you have only had it out on the street.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> Looks pretty sweet. How does it ride, I guess you have only had it out on the street.


So far it rides pretty well. I have had it on paved stuff for about 4 miles and I like it so far. It's very stiff and I have had a ton of compliments on it already. I'm not sure the weight but its pretty light. Like you this is my first go with carbon so I guess we shall see how it holds up. It's far better than my GT Avalanche frame


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## yarum (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi all,

I was planning on getting one f these ebay carbon frames to replace the frame on my specialized hard rock hydraulic disk. (Its for a small tour of Italy in 3 months, and i didnt fancy a road bike considering this is less and i get to keep using mtb parts and geometry!)

Anyways i was wondering how much of the parts on my specialized i could just swap over to the carbon frame? Sorry if im being a complete noob, but any help would be massively appreciated! 

Cheers


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

yarum said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was planning on getting one f these ebay carbon frames to replace the frame on my specialized hard rock hydraulic disk. (Its for a small tour of Italy in 3 months, and i didnt fancy a road bike considering this is less and i get to keep using mtb parts and geometry!)
> 
> ...


You are going to have determine what parts are on your Specialized. I have no way of knowing what your bike is equipped with. Someone very familiar with Specialized may be able to help you if you say what year it is. Below is a parts list you will need.

34.9 low clamp top pull front derailleur

34.9 seatpost clamp

31.6mm seatpost (or smaller post with shim)

68mm bottom bracket

zero stack headset

80-100mm suspension fork or suspension corrected rigid fork.

Looking at the 2009 hardrock disc, it looks like everything should swap directly over except the headset, seatpost and seatclamp. The seatpost is 30.9. So assuming that yours is the same as the 2009 you will need a 34.9 seatclamp and a 30.9 to 31.6 shim to use the seatpost, or get a 31.6 seatpost. You will also need the zero stack headset.


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## yarum (Mar 19, 2010)

Ah thankyou very much. Just been out and measured those bits, so may look into a carbon seatpost too then 

Well my specs dont seem to match any on the specialized website... :S it was bought 2008 and frame says hardroclk sport.

So heres the specs: 
Hayes sole hydraulic disks and levers
Shimano Alvio shifters
Truvativ Crank isoflow with 3 truvcativ front gears
Shimano Acera rear derailer
8-speed hyperglide HG casset/freewheel
and head set said 'externally relieved head tube' only

Thankyou very much for the imformative responce! much appreciated.
Are their different sized zero stck headsets? what size would i need if so?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

yarum said:


> Ah thankyou very much. Just been out and measured those bits, so may look into a carbon seatpost too then
> 
> Well my specs dont seem to match any on the specialized website... :S it was bought 2008 and frame says hardroclk sport.
> 
> ...


 You need a 44mm zero stack headset.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

Here is a response from one of our locals on this frame

"That's great, if you want to buy a carbon MTB with sketchy warranty and company history. I don't trust a lot of name brand carbon mtb frames, let alone fly by night carbon internet brands. p.s. every sette product I've ever had (this is before I worked in a bike shop) failed. I mean how does a seatpost fail? well my sette post did. I'm not saying this because I work in a shop, but because their product was shiet, and it wasn't worth the cheap price! "

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/2009/09/giant-xtc.html

My response to him

Yep that's a nasty break. Carbon (if made right) is only designed for so much and if its forced in a direction not intended it will fail just like aluminum and chromoly. I have seen 4130 chromoly frames break in a similar fashion. Its about the use vs intended use as well as weight. My expierence with carbon fiber comes from drag racing such as helmets, hahns devices, body and wing composites etc. Even formula 1 cars use carbon fiber suspension parts so they are incredibly strong when used properly.the biggest thing about carbon is the construction process and the layout of the fibers in the weaves. Carbon fiber is measured by the width of the weave. For instance, a 1K weave will be approximatley 1mm in width while a 12K weave will be much larger at approximatley 12mm and so forth.
Its kind of like wheels and spoke counts. Smoother riders can get away with lower spoke wheels where as someone who isnt might want to stick with a 32-36 spoked wheel. This is just my opinion I am not defending sette at all as I have not used a lot of their stuff. Bikes are one of those things you usually get what you pay for 99% of the time but with everything the user has to use it as it was intended. That's all I am saying.


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## Teddyhoong (Aug 4, 2009)

*weak deraileur hanger*

Hi guys, I had my ebay chinese carbon frame setup in Oct '09 and it has been doing great since then...

Just one thing, the rear deraileur hanger is too weak... I have broken 3 so far, each under pretty light impact... So remember to ask for extra hangers when you order yours... Still, be prepared to run with ur bike during race or spend hours walking out of the trail whenever the hanger breaks...

I had my experimental shot with a cheap carbon option... I have decided that I will stick with carbon hardtail... will save up money and go for a big brand carbon hardtail frame for my long term bike...


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Teddyhoong said:


> Hi guys, I had my ebay chinese carbon frame setup in Oct '09 and it has been doing great since then...
> 
> Just one thing, the rear deraileur hanger is too weak... I have broken 3 so far, each under pretty light impact... So remember to ask for extra hangers when you order yours... Still, be prepared to run with ur bike during race or spend hours walking out of the trail whenever the hanger breaks...
> 
> I had my experimental shot with a cheap carbon option... I have decided that I will stick with carbon hardtail... will save up money and go for a big brand carbon hardtail frame for my long term bike...


What exactly are you doing on your bike? 3 derailleur hangers? The hangers are no different than what would come on "big brand" carbon frames, so I think if you have problems with this one you will continue to have problems. These are not some type of special cheap chinese hangers. I have had several good impacts to my rear derailleur and I have had no problems at all, other than a scratched up derailleur.


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## Teddyhoong (Aug 4, 2009)

I believe the frame you have is this,
http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=326

The frame I was talking about is,
http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=327

I actually bought both the frame, one for myself and the other for my gf.

I compared both hangers, and noticed that the latter one has a much narrower turn, where it has snapped 3 times on me... No issue with the formal one though.

Unfortunately, I can't find another deraileur hanger that has a wider profile to replace the weak one... The seller don't have an answer to it... so now i have to live with it in a way, expecting it to snap again...

I would call the weak hanger a design flaw, which I believe a 'big brand' design would have taken it into account... if not, at least they would have a big reputation to protect and answer constructively to my complaints, or send me some stronger hangers which fit to solve this long term issue...

I guess the note to everyone is that, not to buy the latter frame, even tho I personally think that it is slightly better looking than the formal one...


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Prostreet513 said:


> Here is a response from one of our locals on this frame
> 
> "That's great, if you want to buy a carbon MTB with sketchy warranty and company history. I don't trust a lot of name brand carbon mtb frames, let alone fly by night carbon internet brands. p.s. every sette product I've ever had (this is before I worked in a bike shop) failed. I mean how does a seatpost fail? well my sette post did. I'm not saying this because I work in a shop, but because their product was shiet, and it wasn't worth the cheap price! "
> 
> ...


Bike shop employee telling you not to buy from the internet...Very typical.

I have at least a dozen Sette products ranging from clothing to tools to bike parts. I abuse every one of them and nothing has broken or fallen apart on me. Sounds like he doesn't know what he doing.


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## MHinvest (Mar 11, 2010)

I am looking to build one of these up for my girlfriend and a little new to this. I plan on Ebaying most of the parts for this and need to do this on a budget. Looking at headsets and need help with a "44mm zero stack headset" . Can anyone give me a link to one so I know what I am looking for. I thought 1 1/8" headsets were all the same. Thanks


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

MHinvest said:


> I am looking to build one of these up for my girlfriend and a little new to this. I plan on Ebaying most of the parts for this and need to do this on a budget. Looking at headsets and need help with a "44mm zero stack headset" . Can anyone give me a link to one so I know what I am looking for. I thought 1 1/8" headsets were all the same. Thanks


There are 3 types of 1 1/8" headsets that I know of. Standard, integrated, or semi-integrated (zero stack). Cane Creek zero stack headsets are all designated with ZS. The link below will show you one.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=29015&category=724


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## MHinvest (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the help and link. I am looking to purchase this frame http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320509998099&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

Any comments or suggestions for something else. I want to make the right choice and not hassle with returns or Paypal disputes. It looks like most of these bikes on Ebay are identical other than the Carbon weave. The seller is willing to sell this one shipped for $360 with seatpost and bars. Might try to get him to throw in a seatpost clamp and stem at a discount as he sells those to.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks good. I don't see any reason why you would have problems with the purchase. I can't comment on the bars and seatpost since I did not get them with my frame. But I would guess they are the same as some other name brands without the decals.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

If anyone is interested I am considering selling my frame. I bought this frame a little over 2 weeks ago and it has about 7 miles on it. The frame is in new condition and no blemishes or any type of mechanical defects whatsoever. I found a great deal on a Kona frame so I am selling this frame. This is a sette style frame and has the same geometry however this was wrapped in 3x carbon weave and the sette is a 12x carbon weave. Here are pics of the bike assembled. If you would like to come and look at it you are more than welcome. I would like to get $275 plus shipping for it. I will include the headset, seat post clamp, and proably the Shimano XT 771 front derailluer


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## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

*Hong Kong Carbon*

I decided to pick up one of these carbon frames myself. I bought it from ebay seller 2allsport. They even sent me an extra derailleur hanger (which I asked for.) I'm still in the process of building it up so not sure how it rides, but it looks pretty decent to me...

More pics here.
https://picasaweb.google.com/slenzi/HongKongCarbon


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Nice. What parts are you going to use?


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## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

*parts*

The last time I built up a bike was over 10 years ago so I'm a little out of the loop these days. I got a Mavic Crosstrail wheelset off ebay, as well as a Thomson seatpost & stem, Bontrager riser bars, and an XTR rear dérailleur. From blueskycycling.com I got an slx front dérailleur, slx m660 crank, a cassette, and some Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes with the clean sweap rotors. I debated getting some shimano hydraulics but these are my first disc brakes so I thought I'd go with the ones that have less maintenance. If everything turns out ok and the bike doesn't explode I can upgrade later.  From amazon I picked up a Rock Shox Tora... not great but for my needs it should be fine. My current bike has a '98 Judy XC! Still need to pick up some shifters.



ljsmith said:


> Nice. What parts are you going to use?


----------



## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

*Carbon Klein*

Carbon bike is starting to come together! My other bike is a Klein so I thought the decals would give some good luck to this frame.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

That is a sweet looking bike. The Klein decals actually look good. Get out and ride and give us a ride review!


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## Foxman11 (Dec 2, 2009)

slenzi said:


> Carbon bike is starting to come together! My other bike is a Klein so I thought the decals would give some good luck to this frame.


What kind of Mavic wheel set is that?


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## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

Sadly it will be about another week before I can ride it. Still waiting on a few more parts. Once I get a feel for it I'll let you all know how it performs.



ljsmith said:


> That is a sweet looking bike. The Klein decals actually look good. Get out and ride and give us a ride review!


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## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

2009 Mavic Crosstrail Disc



Foxman11 said:


> What kind of Mavic wheel set is that?


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## slenzi (Apr 26, 2010)

*Finished*

I finished putting together my ebay carbon bike. Here it is in it's final form. So far I've only put about 30-35 miles on it, mostly on the road and smooth hard pack trail. No complaints thus far except for maybe the dics brakes I put on. They are Avid BB7s. They are my first disc breaks so maybe I haven't tuned them enough. There is more play in the levers than I am use to with my old v-brakes. If I tighten them more they rub... oh well. As for the frame it feels pretty solid. This is the first carbon frame I have ever ridden so it's difficult for me to compare. The bike I am coming from is a 98 Klein Attitude and it's rock hard stiff. You stand up and pedal and you rocket away. The carbon frame feels pretty close, maybe not quite as stiff....hard to tell really. I get the impression I feel less vibration, but there are different tires on each of them and the PSI could very well be different. In those 35 miles I haven't done anything that would really stress the frame beside ride off a curb. I did accidentally whack the frame against the corner of a wall as I was carrying the bike up some stairs and it looks like it held up fine. After I put some real miles on it and take it on some good trails I can write more.

Additional pics, http://picasaweb.google.com/slenzi/HongKongCarbon#


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## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

really nice looking bike you built there..
i have bb7 and i have them set to not much play at all. mabe they just need to be used a little more


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

slenzi said:


> They are Avid BB7s. They are my first disc breaks so maybe I haven't tuned them enough. There is more play in the levers than I am use to with my old v-brakes. If I tighten them more they rub...
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/slenzi/HongKongCarbon#


BB7s are great brakes. I have used several hydraulics and still think the BB7s are the best. If you follow the instructions included you will not get the most out of them. Also the pads need some time to break in before you get maximum stopping power. There have been several threads in the brake forum about setting these things up right, and once you get them set up correctly they are amazing. Here are some tips.

1. Clean your rotor with alcohol. Even if you think they are clean, this step will make them work so much better.

2. Make sure you set up the caliper so that it is parallel to the disc. Because of the CPS washers the caliper can actually sit crooked.

3. After doing the setup as described in the instructions, move the non-moving pad (the inboard pad) as close as possible to the disc without rubbing.

4. Take all slack out of the cable using the barrel adjusters.

5. Adjust the moving pad (outboard pad) until you get the stopping power you desire. I would start with it as close as possible to the disc without rubbing. Make a few stops and see how it feels. Then move it out a couple of clicks and see how it feels. And repeat this process until you get the power and modulation you like. If set up right the BB7s are more than capable of launching you over the bars.

6. If you get squeeling (which almost always eventually happens) remove the pads, sand them with some sandpaper, and clean them and the rotors with alcohol.

One more thing. In perfect, dry conditions a high end set of v-brakes set up properly has more stopping power and better modulation than discs. People dispute this, but I can only assume they have never ridden a high end set of v-brakes that are adjusted correctly. The benefit of discs is that they work way better in dirty, muddy and wet conitions and they have less fade than a set of v-brakes.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Dude - get that thing on the trail. Get it in some tight rock gardens. Hit some jumps. Point it down some nasty downhills and see what it does. No more of this road riding [email protected]#t, get this thing dirty and beat the f*&k out of it and come back and see us!


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## apacherider (Mar 18, 2004)

Any 29er carbon asian frames on the market yet? Searching these threads has me wondering.........


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

apacherider said:


> Any 29er carbon asian frames on the market yet? Searching these threads has me wondering.........


Not that I have seen. But yeah, I think they would sell a ton of them if they did.


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## ntb1001 (Apr 30, 2010)

I have ordered this carbon frame from greatkeen. They last email from them said that it would be ready to ship in about 5 days. They're going to send the frame, seat post clamp, headset, carbon handlebars, carbon stem, and painted for abot $560.00 (includes shipping)
This will be my first mountain bike, I'm planning to build it with Shimano SLX. I'm not sure what kind of fork to go with, what is a good fork that is not expensive?


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ntb1001 said:


> I have ordered this carbon frame from greatkeen. They last email from them said that it would be ready to ship in about 5 days. They're going to send the frame, seat post clamp, headset, carbon handlebars, carbon stem, and painted for abot $560.00 (includes shipping)
> This will be my first mountain bike, I'm planning to build it with Shimano SLX. I'm not sure what kind of fork to go with, what is a good fork that is not expensive?


That is a great looking paint job. I can't wait to see the build. Probably the cheapest "good" fork is a Rockshox Tora. I personally like the Manitou R7, I think the absolute damping is the best I have used, and you can usually find them for around $300.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

ntb1001 said:


> I have ordered this carbon frame from greatkeen. They last email from them said that it would be ready to ship in about 5 days. They're going to send the frame, seat post clamp, headset, carbon handlebars, carbon stem, and painted for abot $560.00 (includes shipping)
> This will be my first mountain bike, I'm planning to build it with Shimano SLX. I'm not sure what kind of fork to go with, what is a good fork that is not expensive?


Can you give a link to seller "greatkeen". Can't find it on Ebay.

I found this site:

http://www.greatkeenshop.com/

but I can't get any pics to show up.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

ljsmith said:


> With an 80mm fork it is 71 deg. I used a 100mm fork which slackens it up a bit. Below is the geometry chart for the 18" frame.


The diagram shows a rigid carbon fork. Where can I get one?

I've seen carbon forks at:

https://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=315&id=473

$68 !!

but nothing like the above on Ebay.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

slenzi said:


> Sadly it will be about another week before I can ride it. Still waiting on a few more parts. Once I get a feel for it I'll let you all know how it performs.


How much does your setup weigh?


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

slenzi said:


> 2009 Mavic Crosstrail Disc


Sorry for the newbie quesiton, I'm not familiar with wheelsets.

How much do they go for? PP has them for $269:

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16...vic-Crosstrail-Wheelset-UST-Tubeless-2009.htm

What are some other candidate wheelsets, that are in the $250 ballpark?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

chimpanzee00 said:


> Sorry for the newbie quesiton, I'm not familiar with wheelsets.
> 
> How much do they go for? PP has them for $269:
> 
> ...


Those are rim brake wheels, not disc. What type of wheels are you looking for, disc or rim brake?


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I built my Ebay carbon MTB last night and had my first 60 km ride with it today on asphault plus a little bit of off roading. The naked frame without V-brake posts weighed 1252 g, and with the parts listed below it weighs 10,4 kg.


Part list:
18" Ebay 12k carbon frame.
90 g Ebay carbon saddle.
Ebay carbon bottle cage.
Cane Creek ZSC-1 headset with a low stack, homemade top plate.
Truvativ Stylo Race 31,8 mm/110 mm stem.
KCNC Dark Side 31,8 mm/600 mm handlebar.
Rock Shox SID Race 80/100 with pushloc.
Promax Carbon 31,6 mm/350 mm saddle post.
Pro 34,9 mm saddle post clamp.
Avid BB7 185 mm front brake.
Avid BB7 160 mm rear brake.
Avid Speed Dial 7 brake handles.
SRAM X.7 twist shifters.
SRAM X.7 long rear derailleur.
SRAM X.7 34,9 mm top mount front derailleur.
Shimano XT brake and gear wires.
Aerozine X-12-SL-A3 crank.
Wellgo platform/SPD pedals (temporary, borrowed from my commuter bike).
SRAM PG970 11-32 cassette.
Shimano Ultegra 6700 chain with "brand-X" chain connector from CRC.
Fulcrum Red Metal 5 wheels.
Continental Race King Supersonic MTB 26x2.2 tires.
Michelin C4 AirStop 26x1.60/2.10 tubes.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

That is a very nice, and fast looking bike! How are those Aerozine cranks? I was looking at those, but I was a little unsure of the adjustable length system. I was afraid the pedals might end up a with a little play.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

chimpanzee00 said:


> The diagram shows a rigid carbon fork. Where can I get one?
> 
> I've seen carbon forks at:
> 
> ...


there is no fork shown in that diagram. The other parts of the drawing on the top left and the bottom left are different views of the seatstays and chainstays


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

So far so good. I have only put it through the one ride. The crank arms are incredibly thin and it has a weight limit of 75 kg (165 lbs).


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Just put some UST Mavics on. I was running ghetto tubeless, but I wasn't a big fan of it. So I saved up for the UST rims.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Looks great! I put some red SID stickers on my fork today. It looks better then the original I think and will match the paintjob I have planned.

On the ride I did on tuesday I noticed that the frame is incredibly stiff torsionally. Even when standing and pedalling hard the frame didn't seem to flex. I'm a little impressed and hope it lasts.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Really nice frame.....it even has v-brakes bosses....don't see that to often anymore these days.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

tahustvedt said:


> Looks great! I put some red SID stickers on my fork today. It looks better then the original I think and will match the paintjob I have planned.
> 
> On the ride I did on tuesday I noticed that the frame is incredibly stiff torsionally. Even when standing and pedalling hard the frame didn't seem to flex. I'm a little impressed and hope it lasts.


I will be interested to see how your paint job turns out. I have considered doing that myself.

It definitly is a stiff frame. With such oversize tubes you would expect it to be stiff.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I might wait until winter with painting it. Here's how I plan to paint it. Not sure what I will call it. TINY is just a test.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Check this out. http://www.richmond-bikes.com/2010bikes/SLC1/

Look familiar?  The only differences I can see are the bottle mount posts on the seat tube, and the extra layers of CF directly behind the head tube.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

tahustvedt said:


> Check this out. http://www.richmond-bikes.com/2010bikes/SLC1/
> 
> Look familiar?  The only differences I can see are the bottle mount posts on the seat tube, and the extra layers of CF directly behind the head tube.


That does look very similar. It is interesting to note that most of their frames are made by Kinesis, but this one claims to be made by Richmond. I suspect that they do not make any of their frames, and this is made by the same manufacturer of many of these ebay frames. The road frame even looks like the carbon road frames on ebay.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I photoshopped my paintjob plans into the photo of my complete bike to see what it would look like.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

tahustvedt said:


> I photoshopped my paintjob plans into the photo of my complete bike to see what it would look like.


That looks pretty cool. I have never used photoshop, so thats pretty cool that you were able to do that. I would never know that it was photoshopped. I think a white seatpost would look sweet.


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## banksd1983 (Jun 18, 2007)

how much did that frame cost?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

banksd1983 said:


> how much did that frame cost?


All of these frames go for around $300 on ebay.


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## banksd1983 (Jun 18, 2007)

thanks, now if I can just located one that doesn't have v brake bosses, I think i'd buy myself one to fool around with


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

banksd1983 said:


> thanks, now if I can just located one that doesn't have v brake bosses, I think i'd buy myself one to fool around with


I don't think you will find one without bosses. The weight weenie crowd usually runs v-brakes, so most carbon frames come with bosses. I don't see what the big deal is though. I just removed the posts and put black tape over them, you can't even notice they are there. Some people have even drilled out the threads from the frame to save a few grams. Check out the pics, you don't really even know they were there.


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

Here's my build.
Parts that I upgraded on my main ride were piling up so based on ljsmith's comments (thanks), I decided to pull the trigger. It's alot of fun to ride, I've only had it out twice but it feels great and climbs like a goat. It comes in sub 24lbs which is not to bad considering it has all of my old "heavy" parts on it. Upgrading the wheels would drop at least 2lbs right off the bat. Really fun ride? absolutely. Would I make it my main bike? no, but who wants to ride just one bike?

Thank again ljsmith.


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

Forgot to attach the picture...


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Nice bike Nick. Very good use of spare parts!


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## jbl_91762 (Nov 1, 2009)

Damn all your bikes look sweet!!! I prefer FS and will try it when one does come out!


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

jbl_91762 said:


> Damn all your bikes look sweet!!! I prefer FS and will try it when one does come out!


They also sell full suspension frames. Here's one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Sus...iewItem&pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item335e11809e


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

Anyone else have any more reviews/updates on their frames?
Im thinking of buying one in the next few weeks to make a light weight SS.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Mine still works.  I might participate in a race with it on saturday if the weather is good.

Here are a couple more pictures of it on two different mountains.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> I don't think you will find one without bosses. The weight weenie crowd usually runs v-brakes, so most carbon frames come with bosses. I don't see what the big deal is though. I just removed the posts and put black tape over them, you can't even notice they are there. Some people have even drilled out the threads from the frame to save a few grams. Check out the pics, you don't really even know they were there.


I'm looking at this one from greatkeen... I need a small frame and this was the smallest frame I could find at 15". No brake bosses.

https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=95&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=9


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

slabber said:


> I'm looking at this one from greatkeen... I need a small frame and this was the smallest frame I could find at 15". No brake bosses.
> 
> https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=95&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=9


That is a nice paint job. Do you have to pay extra for that? The frame kind of looks like a Stumpjumper.


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## bikingsoul (May 8, 2010)

Nice frame! Cost?


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## jbl_91762 (Nov 1, 2009)

darn the fs was sold. gonna keep looking!


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

jbl_91762 said:


> darn the fs was sold. gonna keep looking!


I've been waiting to see someone build up one of those FS frames. They look really nice, I'd like to know if they ride as good as they look.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

jbl_91762 said:


> darn the fs was sold. gonna keep looking!


What size do you need? This listing expires in 20 hours, but a new one will probably be up after: http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Sus...iewItem&pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item4aa26f4d38

I raced my ebay bike yesterday here in northern Norway. The race is called "Reistadrittet" (the Reistad race), two 27 km laps in variyng terrain. It was pretty challenging, and very rough in some places. On the second lap my front derailer twisted around the seat tube, despite being torqued to the correct value and checked after several rides. I didn't know what happened and kept riding with the chain pinched in the derailer and no big ring access.  I used friction paste when I reinstalled it again today. Other than that the bike did well.

Helmet cam video:
Part 1: 



Part 2:


----------



## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

Do they make a 29er frame?


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I haven't seen one.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

tahustvedt said:


> What size do you need? This listing expires in 20 hours, but a new one will probably be up after: http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Sus...iewItem&pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item4aa26f4d38
> 
> I raced my ebay bike yesterday here in northern Norway. The race is called "Reistadrittet" (the Reistad race), two 27 km laps in variyng terrain. It was pretty challenging, and very rough in some places. On the second lap my front derailer twisted around the seat tube, despite being torqued to the correct value and checked after several rides. I didn't know what happened and kept riding with the chain pinched in the derailer and no big ring access.  I used friction paste when I reinstalled it again today. Other than that the bike did well.
> 
> ...


So awesome
What you finish?

Seems like ur bike would be covered in mud.... need pics  to many clean frames in this thread.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I finished twelfth overall. Third in my class (30-39 years). I can do a lot better, but I messed up and didn't drink or eat enough during the race.

The bike (and I) was very dirty. I didn't take any pictures after the race though.


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## jbl_91762 (Nov 1, 2009)

Great job in the race! I am looking for a 17" FS but I'll wait till someone else does first. $700 for a carbon frame from China?? I can get a sweet frame from a reputable seller/ But they doo look nice the HT that is


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

jbl_91762 said:


> Great job in the race! I am looking for a 17" FS but I'll wait till someone else does first. $700 for a carbon frame from China?? I can get a sweet frame from a reputable seller/ But they doo look nice the HT that is


$700 is not bad for a carbon full suspension frame. But I wouldn't want to pay that much and not even get a brand name shock. Maybe if it came with a Rockshox or Fox, but Kind Shock?


----------



## dblvanos (Mar 17, 2010)

bigdog100 said:


> Do they make a 29er frame?


I am waiting for one to be made and then Iill build up a 29er, hope it is soon.


----------



## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> That is a nice paint job. Do you have to pay extra for that? The frame kind of looks like a Stumpjumper.


Not sure on this specific paint job - most one color paint jobs are around $40. Two tone like this is prob close to $70.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

bikingsoul said:


> Nice frame! Cost?


That frame in standard gloss clearcoat (no paint) is $265 before shipping. Shipping is typically about $70.


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## OnlyCarbonHT (May 24, 2010)

*Update on my eBay carbon hardtail*

Hello all,

I've been following this thread for awhile now and I thought I would comment on how well this frame preforms.

I bought this frame in April of 2009 because I was tired of my 2007 Gary Fisher Pirahnna HT and figured I can save weight on the frame. I paid 370 shipping included to Toronto, Canada from Beijing. When it arrived I was impressed with the frame and it's light weight construction,
anyway I puton my fork, drivetrain, wheels and everything fit right in place with no problems I needed a new headset and that was about it.

Now It was finally ready to ride....Needless to say I was blown away by the lack of weight and stiffness. I don't ride my bikes gingerly I want a bike I can take pretty much anywhere and this frame has not dissapointed yet. All in all this is a great frame that gives the Big name bikes a run for ther money.

I included some pictures for everyone.
Here are my components:
Rockshox tora 302 130mm (Yes it's possible I've done it for 12 months without a problem)
Alex Rims Supra BH w/ CST Caballero tires (26x2.40)
FSA K-Force Carbon bar and Raceface ride stem
Avid Elxir CR Carbon 160mm disks 
SRAM X-9 Shifter Pods 
Travativ Noir 3.3 Carbon Carnkset
Animal polycarbonate pedals
SRAM X-7 rear derailleur 
Specialized Avatar 143 seat and 3k cabon seatpost


----------



## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

i see no pics^^^^


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## OnlyCarbonHT (May 24, 2010)

Im having trouble posting them it keeps telling me "invalid post specififed. So because of the error i can't post my pics


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

OnlyCarbonHT said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Needless to say I was blown away by the lack of weight and stiffness.


On initial reading, sounds like it wasn't stiff enough but that's not what you're saying I gather.

Try hosting your images and linking to them?


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## OnlyCarbonHT (May 24, 2010)

Hello all,

Here are the pictures I tried posting earlier.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

Awesome , thanks for the update with news of how your frame is going.



OnlyCarbonHT said:


> Now It was finally ready to ride....Needless to say I was blown away by the lack of weight and stiffness.


What you guys mean when u say the frame has flex etc. Ive never ridden a carbon frame before. Is it a bad thing? does this frame have to much? What is it??


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

shoryuken said:


> Awesome , thanks for the update with news of how your frame is going.
> 
> What you guys mean when u say the frame has flex etc. Ive never ridden a carbon frame before. Is it a bad thing? does this frame have to much? What is it??


Carbon frames can be designed in such a way that they flex in certain directions and parts of the frame to give you a ride feel like steel while at the same time being stiff in other areas to give you optimal power transfer like aluminum. This is something that can only be done with carbon fiber. I personally would say that this frame is very stiff, mainly due to its huge tubing diameters and overbuilt headtube and bottom bracket. Its ride feel is not as harsh as aluminum, but I would guess that high end carbon bikes would ride smoother.


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## ntb1001 (Apr 30, 2010)

Here is my complete build. 
Great Keen carbon frame, painted and decal-ed with decals clear coated.
Carbon bars, stem & seatpost from Great Keen.
SLX group from ebay.
SLX wheels from ebay.
Conti tires from PBK.

This is my first mountain bike, so I'm still getting used to it, but it's a lot of fun.
I think that I have to replace the handlebar stem(100mm) with a longer one, it feels a little short, but I'm not sure yet.


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wow, really great job, did you do the paint yourself?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

That is a nice looking bike. I like the paint. I noticed that there are a few on ebay now that are painted, and even some of the guys selling these are offering custom paint jobs now. These carbon frames are really starting to get sophisticated!


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## OnlyCarbonHT (May 24, 2010)

Looks like it came of the factory line painted that way!!!:eekster: 

I must have missed the part where he said he did the paint job LOL. **** that looks good I want my ebay carbon HT painted like that. Offically jealous.

-Alex


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## ntb1001 (Apr 30, 2010)

I didn't paint it. I ordered it from the factory this way. Really good quality paint & decals, they did a great job.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ntb1001 said:


> I didn't paint it. I ordered it from the factory this way. Really good quality paint & decals, they did a great job.


Are you going to tell us what the frame plus paint cost?


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## ntb1001 (Apr 30, 2010)

Frame with carbon seat post, seat post clamp, carbon handlebars, headset, painted & shipped for $560.00 total.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ntb1001 said:


> Frame with carbon seat post, seat post clamp, carbon handlebars, headset, painted & shipped for $560.00 total.


That is an awesome deal. I always thought they would sell a lot more if they painted them.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Wow, I am impressed with those carbon frames. Which seller do you recommend? I would like to get a carbon frame for my wife.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> Wow, I am impressed with those carbon frames. Which seller do you recommend? I would like to get a carbon frame for my wife.


I think everyone here bought from different sellers, so I don't think it really matters since everyone has been very happy with theirs. I have yet to see someone who has not liked these frames and or borken it.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> I think everyone here bought from different sellers, so I don't think it really matters since everyone has been very happy with theirs. I have yet to see someone who has not liked these frames and or borken it.


I was not specific enough. I would like buy exactly the same frame as "ntb1001" bought. Any suggestions? (-:


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> I was not specific enough. I would like buy exactly the same frame as "ntb1001" bought. Any suggestions? (-:


Well if you want the exact frame he has, you will have to get one from greatkeen. They are not selling on ebay, I guess he went to their website. They are the only ones I know of that will paint them and sticker them to look like name brand bikes.

http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/home.php


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> Well if you want the exact frame he has, you will have to get one from greatkeen. They are not selling on ebay, I guess he went to their website. They are the only ones I know of that will paint them and sticker them to look like name brand bikes.
> 
> http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/home.php


I talked to him and pretty much got all the important information. It seems the "Bianchi" type of paint comes from the factory by default. I will send the e-mail tonight and see what happens. My wife is more excited about her new bike than I am.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I contacted them and this is the pricing breakdown they provided. It seems quite fair to me. I need to get few more items from them and we are good to go.

MTB frame 18" with painting 340usd
headset 15usd
handlebar 30usd
seatpost 30usd
carbon stem 45usd


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I have got one more question. Do you think it would be save to use a fork with 120mm travel (can adjust to 100mm). Any risks with carbon frames?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> I have got one more question. Do you think it would be save to use a fork with 120mm travel (can adjust to 100mm). Any risks with carbon frames?


I would ask the seller. When I bought mine the seller told me that the frame was designed for an 80mm fork but a 100mm could also be used. In general you can go 20mm longer than the frame was designed for. If you increase more than 20mm you increase stress on the headtube, slacken the head angle a lot and throw the seat angle pretty far out which makes it hard to get the proper seat position. But again, I would ask the seller if you have any doubts.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> I would ask the seller. When I bought mine the seller told me that the frame was designed for an 80mm fork but a 100mm could also be used. In general you can go 20mm longer than the frame was designed for. If you increase more than 20mm you increase stress on the headtube, slacken the head angle a lot and throw the seat angle pretty far out which makes it hard to get the proper seat position. But again, I would ask the seller if you have any doubts.


I do not want to use anything above 100mm. I found a good deal on Recon but I am unsure about the travel. I have got 5 coil shocks and I am bit unconformable about buying an air fork since my wife weighs 138 pounds.


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## 3millioncolors (Jul 20, 2010)

ntb1001 said:


> Here is my complete build.
> Great Keen carbon frame, painted and decal-ed with decals clear coated.
> Carbon bars, stem & seatpost from Great Keen.
> SLX group from ebay.
> ...


Does Binachi even make that bike?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I looks like one of the Oetzi frames.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

If you don't mind me asking - the bikes from greatkeen, how did you pay for them. Did you use a credit card over the phone or paypal?

Also, if you get the paint job on that frame - are you saying the blue and white bianchi paint job is the only one available? I actually like it but just wondering if there were options.

Also - Also, I see there website shows 4 different carbon mtb frames. Is there a price difference between them are they all roughly the same type of frame other than some geometry differences? Hope this doesn't sound rude but when you talk to them on the phone is it easy to get the answers to these questions?


----------



## Ruger (Jan 22, 2009)

Well I bought one.
350 bucks shipped!

Too sweet a deal! 

:skep:


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Greatkeen has some nice frames with quality paint jobs. I thought I would post pics here since there seems to be a lot of interest.

https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp.php?catid=9&key=&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&page=2

This one is kind of weird with a name like Bocus.









This is of course the Bianchi that everyone has seen









Here is a Felt paint job









Here is the "Java" paint job. I'm not sure if that is a real brand or not.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Bianchi carbon bikes I found on the German Bianchi website.

http://80.91.49.253/de/products2010/Mtb_Racing_Y0B69.aspx


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I do not think that the great keen frame is a real Bianchi frame. There are quite a few differences. The seat tube/head tube junction and the headtube area is much more built up on the great keen frame. But other than that it is pretty close. The Felt frame they sell looks absolutely nothing like a Felt carbon frame.


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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

ljsmith said:


> Greatkeen has some nice frames with quality paint jobs. I thought I would post pics here since there seems to be a lot of interest.
> 
> https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp.php?catid=9&key=&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&page=2
> 
> ...


See the way the carbon wraps around the headtube on the Java frame? A LBS owner friend of mine was given a Rocky Mountain road frame, carbon designed the exact way, and the frame was separating at the headtube where the carbon wraps around it, to hold it in place. He got a Argon 18 full crrbon frame and been pouding the $hiit out of it ever since without any issues,and not wrapped carbon headtube as such..just soemthing to think about.


----------



## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

If I'm Mr. Bianchi, I think I'm a little pissed at Greatkeen for stealing my name.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Scott O said:


> If I'm Mr. Bianchi, I think I'm a little pissed at Greatkeen for stealing my name.


The chinese steal pretty much everything else already....


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

trboxman said:


> The chinese steal pretty much everything else already....


I don't think the Chinese are too concerned about copyright infringement. There are all kinds of knockoff bike parts from China all over ebay.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

trboxman said:


> The chinese steal pretty much everything else already....


The same goes for the Americans... Nobody told those companies to export their know how abroad. You are stereotyping.

EDIT: Please stick to the subject. Thank you.


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

damn...it looks like the Forum Inquisition has shown up...


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## SkinsFan (Feb 2, 2010)

i like these...


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## glovemtb (Mar 12, 2006)

Here is the different weaves usually availble on those Chinese carbon frames. I am waiting for one that will fit 650b or 29" wheels. Btw, have Trek 9800 frame still a wonderful stiff 26" wheeled ride I will get out of the attic for a couple of hundred bucks. (canti brake bosses, no disc brake would need adapters.)
I don't do 26" hardtails anymore.
Btw, I don't think I would EVER do the emmarble on a carbon frame. Thinks abouts its....


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

glovemtb said:


> Here is the different weaves usually availble on those Chinese carbon frames. I am waiting for one that will fit 650b or 29" wheels. Btw, have Trek 9800 frame still a wonderful stiff 26" wheeled ride I will get out of the attic for a couple of hundred bucks. (canti brake bosses, no disc brake would need adapters.)
> I don't do 26" hardtails anymore.
> Btw, I don't think I would EVER do the emmarble on a carbon frame. Thinks abouts its....


Yuu can keep it.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/2010/05/trek-9800-oclv-only-10-rides-old.html


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

*Creaking noises*

My frame started to develop some serious creaking noises whenever I applied the rear brakes or stood up and pedaled. Creaking can be a bad sign for carbon, and I was afraid that maybe my frame was dying. But I found it was coming from the rear dropouts. I cleaned them and lubricated them and the wheel axle with grease and that got rid of all the creaking. Just an FYI to any owners who end up with a similar problem.


----------



## Harry_Dog (Feb 1, 2007)

Good to know LJ. Your post are the main reason why I'm building one of these ebay frames for SS use. Thanks for all your info.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> My frame started to develop some serious creaking noises whenever I applied the rear brakes or stood up and pedaled. Creaking can be a bad sign for carbon, and I was afraid that maybe my frame was dying. But I found it was coming from the rear dropouts. I cleaned them and lubricated them and the wheel axle with grease and that got rid of all the creaking. Just an FYI to any owners who end up with a similar problem.


Scary...I got my ebay frame two days ago. It took 4 days for it to be shipped from China to NY. Unfortunently, I am stil waiting for all the parts from Jenson/Blueskycycling and Treefort.

Also, greatkeen is taking a piss... It hase been over 30 days and when I sent them e-mail last night they said it is going to take another 3 days.:skep:

@ ljsmith

After reading your posts I realized that top swing will not work (bought two)... /-: I need to reorder it.


----------



## Harry_Dog (Feb 1, 2007)

My Ebay carbon came in last night. Small 3k weave. Frame weight is 2.83lbs (without seat collar). 

Looking forward to building her up as my first single speed. I have not been this excited since my Ibis Mojo came in. Always fun in building a bike.

Will post pics (if I can or know how) later.

Thanks again for all your posts and input.


----------



## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

*I went full Ebay on mine...*

This has been the most fun I have had on a build ever (see my last pics). I pulled the Fox III and replaced it with a "Trigon" suspension corrected rigid fork. I also swapped out the Race-Face stem and bar for an all in one carbon combo "Hylix" stem and bar which rides so nice to ride it may go on my main bike. All from Ebay and more importantly all from China and dirt cheap.

This has become my favorite "group ride" bike. You know when you go out for a ride with a bunch of people at different riding levels you get bored. This bike makes the whole thing fun and reminds you how great it is to just ride a bike. If you haven't ridden a (good) full rigid XC bike in awhile I highly recommend it

It comes in at an honest 20-1/4 lbs (wheel-set cost me at least a pound). My main bike is a sub 24lb SC Superlight but I still love this ride.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Your bike looks awesome! I have not ridden a rigid mountain bike offroad in 15 years. It would be nice to have one but my back can't even handle riding without a suspension seatpost anymore.


----------



## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

Were my expectations too high ? 25-30 lbs seems pretty much unacceptable for a carbon frame bike to me considering my heavy as a rock hardrock fetched 31 lbs last time i weighed it.


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## wreckedrex (May 2, 2007)

Keepthechange said:


> Were my expectations too high ? 25-30 lbs seems pretty much unacceptable for a carbon frame bike to me considering my heavy as a rock hardrock fetched 31 lbs last time i weighed it.


Depends entirely on what you built it with. If you stripped everything off of your 31lb hardrock and swapped it all onto a spiffy carbon frame that weighed 2lbs less you'd have a 29lb carbon hardtail.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

wreckedrex said:


> Depends entirely on what you built it with. If you stripped everything off of your 31lb hardrock and swapped it all onto a spiffy carbon frame that weighed 2lbs less you'd have a 29lb carbon hardtail.


Exactly! You cannot take 25 pounds of parts, slap them on a 3 pound frame and then expect the bike to weigh 20 pounds. The frame is only a very small percentage of the total weight of a bike. The heaviest hardtail frame may weigh about 6 pounds, a Scott scale 899 frame (one of the lightest there is) weighs about 2 pounds. So at most you can save about 4 pounds with a carbon frame.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Almost finished my Felt carbon built. I thought I am going to break the frame trying to install the crankest.... Still I need to take it apart again.:skep: :skep: :skep: The total cost is was around $1500, approximate weight around 23.5 pounds (big tires). Since we have six bikes in total I was not able to splash out on components. 

Fork - Rockshox Recon Race 100mm ($300)
Wheels - Fulcrum Red Metal 5 ($230)
Brakes - Shimano XT M775 ($280)
Rear derailleur/shifters - Sram x.7 ($65)
Front derailleur/crankest - Shimano SLX ($165)


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

Great updates guys, im Sub'd to this thread, loving all the builds so far.
My single speed version is coming along slowly.
Will update with pics when i finish ( maybe a while).



ntb1001 said:


> Here is my complete build.
> Great Keen carbon frame, painted and decal-ed with decals clear coated.
> Carbon bars, stem & seatpost from Great Keen.
> SLX group from ebay.
> ...


On the website 
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=89&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=9

Your bike, they have stole your pics or you stole theirs?


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Those are the same wheels I use.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Here's a short video showing me as I try to climb a steep hill in the woods nearby with the Ebay carbon bike.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

tahustvedt said:


> Here's a short video showing me as I try to climb a steep hill in the woods nearby with the Ebay carbon bike.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Those Fulcrum Red Metal 5 wheels feel and look fantastic. It is good to know that your Chinese frame is still in one piece. My bike should be fully operational by Tuesday.

I did the cabling yesterday.


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## desertrat423 (May 3, 2009)

I was looking at some of these frames last night and came across
A seller anybaby8088 that in their description states they have 
a 29er frame available and to email for more info. 
I should be getting a response with pics and geometry if you guys are interested
i can post the info here.


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## dblvanos (Mar 17, 2010)

desertrat423 said:


> I was looking at some of these frames last night and came across
> A seller anybaby8088 that in their description states they have
> a 29er frame available and to email for more info.
> I should be getting a response with pics and geometry if you guys are interested
> i can post the info here.


Yes, please do!


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I'm tempted to try one of the FS frames now. 17" would be about right for me.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Nice change from my Pitch Comp. More pictures.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Nice looking bike. Have you hit the trails yet, hows it ride?


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Just curious...why put stickers from a legit mfg on a no-name frame?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

trboxman said:


> Just curious...why put stickers from a legit mfg on a no-name frame?


Althought I did not do it, I think it is so the frame does not look so bare. I don't think they are trying to fool anyone or impress anyone.

As far as "legit manufacturer," what does that mean? Most of the bike companies do not manufacture anything. The company that makes these frames probably makes frames for the "legit mfgs" and then they slap a "legit" decal on it.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

trboxman said:


> Just curious...why put stickers from a legit mfg on a no-name frame?


For the same reason Felt, Specialized or Trek puts stickers on their Chinese or Taiwanese frames. What is the end of you question? What do you mean by "legit"? I have got two Specialized Pitch Comps fully customized and quality wise the ebay frame feels superior. I guess I should call them legit?

You call those frames OEM.


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## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

what a strange way to try and justify it.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Keepthechange said:


> what a strange way to try and justify it.


Do you have anything to say about the topic? NO, so please do not post info that is not pertinent to the discussion.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> Nice looking bike. Have you hit the trails yet, hows it ride?


Yes. The ride is great, acceleration and climbing are fantastic, bike is literally ninja quiet. Obviously the bike is lighter than my Trek 6000 and Specialized Pitch Comp but at the same the ride is so gentle and smooth. It seems it absorbs a lot of little bumps on the trail.:thumbsup:


----------



## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> Althought I did not do it, I think it is so the frame does not look so bare. I don't think they are trying to fool anyone or impress anyone.
> 
> As far as "legit manufacturer," what does that mean? Most of the bike companies do not manufacture anything. The company that makes these frames probably makes frames for the "legit mfgs" and then they slap a "legit" decal on it.


I'm not trying to say that the frame is in any way, form or fashion inferior to a name brand frame, I'm very familiar with just how few companies actually manufacture frames vs. contract buy and house label them.

I just don't get why you would put someone else's name on the bike. Regardless of intent it comes across as a desire to disguise or legitimize their generic frame purchase when there is no real need to do either.

In this case, Felt had nothing to do with the bike and while they may be perfectly happy to contract for the mfg of that frame, they didn't. I can't imagine that they'd be pleased or see it as a positive to have a bike that they have no affiliation with bearing their name/logo. Nor can I imagine why you'd want to give credit where it just isn't due. Felt didn't market the bike, didn't distribute the bike, didn't spec the components...they did nothing. Why leave folks with the impression that this sweet bike that you've put the time and energy into sourcing, spec-ing and building has someone else behind it as the driving force?


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

The company that sells that bike sell it with the Felt sticker already on it - that's the way it comes. They also sell one with a Bianchi sticker too. 

Who gives a crap whether Felt would like the sticker on his bike or not? Maybe you should do a better job of reading the name of the thread which reads, "Update on my EBAY carbon hardtail". Nobody in this thread that has purchased one of these bikes has attempted to pretend or pass their bike off as a Felt bike. They bought a carbon bike with a sticker on it - get a life.


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## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

trboxman said:


> I just don't get why you would put someone else's name on the bike. Regardless of intent it comes across as a desire to disguise or legitimize their generic frame purchase when there is no real need to do either.


I have rode a naked bike before and it just looks odd. I think that it just makes the bike look complete if there are stickers. Though, I think if you have a few bucks, getting a custom sticker set would be cool. There is a graphics place here in town that will do custom ones for pretty cheap if you provide the file.

KIN


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

trboxman said:


> I just don't get why you would put someone else's name on the bike. Regardless of intent it comes across as a desire to disguise or legitimize their generic frame purchase when there is no real need to do either.


Same reason he's wearing a fake rolex... I am looking forward to getting an ebay carbon 29er tho. I'll apply a collage of hot biker chic pics to distract the the boys while I pick their collective pockets FTW.

Be thankful you like yourself...


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

bonbonan said:


> I love THIS bike with the setup!! :thumbsup:
> How much the bike cost you?


Thank you for you kind words.:thumbsup: The total was around $1550. I paid $270 for brakes, $320 Rockshox Recon Race, $230 Fulcrum Red Metal 5, $350 frame and $135 SLX Crankset. The rest cos me peanuts.

I have just received Bianchi frame (for my wife) from greatkeen and I am blown away by the quliaty. I will post some pics when I get home.

Cheers!


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

Y'all got me interested. I like the 3K frame without the brake bosses on the seat stay. I want to build it with either a Rockshox Sid Race or Fox F80 just for a knockin' around/training bike using relatively light parts like BWW Mavic 717/XT wheels, SRAM X9 stuff but still looking at value. The frames I have been watching are the ones that are painted on eBay. I want a plain black. Can you deal directly with the marketers?


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## Harry_Dog (Feb 1, 2007)

Here is my Ebay Carbon single speed. Really have enjoyed it for the past couple rides. SS is a new challenge for me. I need to push myself to get to the next fitness level and this bike will help me get there.

I happen to like the all black stealth look. Maybe I will take all the stickers off (fork and wheels). If I can I'd like to black out the tire graphics as well. No one knows what type of bike it is. Doesn't matter anyway never had time stop and socialize on the trial. Too busy riding. Oh well to each his/her own.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

waltermitty said:


> Y'all got me interested. I like the 3K frame without the brake bosses on the seat stay. I want to build it with either a Rockshox Sid Race or Fox F80 just for a knockin' around/training bike using relatively light parts like BWW Mavic 717/XT wheels, SRAM X9 stuff but still looking at value. The frames I have been watching are the ones that are painted on eBay. I want a plain black. Can you deal directly with the marketers?


You should contact the ebay sellers. Most of the ones that are selling painted frames say you can contact them for custom colors. I am sure if you told them what you are looing for that they could get it for you.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Harry_Dog said:


> Here is my Ebay Carbon single speed. Really have enjoyed it for the past couple rides. SS is a new challenge for me. I need to push myself to get to the next fitness level and this bike will help me get there.
> 
> I happen to like the all black stealth look. Maybe I will take all the stickers off (fork and wheels). If I can I'd like to black out the tire graphics as well. No one knows what type of bike it is. Doesn't matter anyway never had time stop and socialize on the trial. Too busy riding. Oh well to each his/her own.


That is a nice looking, stealthy bike. To me part of the fun of biking is cutomizing your bike. If you like decals, go for it, if you don't then don't. I think if you just build your bike how you like it, and don't wory about what other people think you will be happiest.


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## Harry_Dog (Feb 1, 2007)

Thank you LJ. Agian thanks for all the info from you and all those who contributed on this topic.

Ride much and safe.


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

*29er*

I also had emailed the seller and got this response, for the 29er:

"the wieght is 1180g for this 29ER"

They are going to send me the geometry via email within the next day or so. :thumbsup:

-omesh



desertrat423 said:


> I was looking at some of these frames last night and came across
> A seller anybaby8088 that in their description states they have
> a 29er frame available and to email for more info.
> I should be getting a response with pics and geometry if you guys are interested
> i can post the info here.


----------



## dblvanos (Mar 17, 2010)

omesh said:


> I also had emailed the seller and got this response, for the 29er:
> 
> "the wieght is 1180g for this 29ER"
> 
> ...


What seller did you contact, and can you share the price and specs for the 29er, I would like to build one myself.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Yes, please share the details, maybe a link to the seller?


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

Gang -

[ebay] Seller: anybaby8088

I dont think he/she has any actual 29er frames up for sale on eBay. While looking at auction item #250697652612, I noticed in the body of the posting that it said to contact them regarding a 29er frame. So I did.

When I get the geometry emailed to me, I'll let you guys know. I assume pricing to be near what most china/hk frames are going for 300-400$. Again, TBD.

cheers,
-omesh



dblvanos said:


> What seller did you contact, and can you share the price and specs for the 29er, I would like to build one myself.


----------



## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

for what its worth, I think THIS might be the 29er frame:

https://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt340/ayi998/DSC_0020.jpg

will confirm soon.


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## topmounter (Jul 30, 2003)

Personally I like the "stealth" or "proto-type" look (i.e. sans fake decals). I'd get tired of 
having to explain the whole "It's not actually a name brand and those are just stickers I 
slapped on their to try and fool you" thing to people. I'd rather give people the "I can't tell 
you who makes it, but you'll probably be riding one soon" line


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

You could cut stickers out of self adhesive vinyl with an x-acto knife. Get some left overs from a sign shop.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I asked an Ebay seller the following question about a full suspension frame: "What is the suspension travel in the rear of the frame?"

The answer I got was: "it is 165mm"

Not likely. He probably just looked at the length of the rear shock, which is 165. I simulated full suspension travel on the frame in a side view photo from ebay and got ~110 mm travel.


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

How does the front derailleur mount on these frames?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

waltermitty said:


> How does the front derailleur mount on these frames?


It is a traditional band mount derailleur (mounts on the seat tube) on the hardtails. At least on my frame a high clamp derailleur is needed. I highly suggest using carbon asembly paste on the clamp so that you don't have to overtighten the clamp and risk damaging the seat tube. It looks like the FS frames should be the same.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

As promised, my wife's carbon bike.


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## heybrady (May 31, 2009)

^^^^ What is the typical terrain of that bike? I noticed a few people lately with Holy Roller on the rear and something more aggressive on the front.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I think the Holy Rollers do pretty good for hardpacked/mid terrain surprisingly.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Jim311 said:


> I think the Holy Rollers do pretty good for hardpacked/mid terrain surprisingly.


Correct. Also, they perform great on asphalt (very fast rolling and literally no resistance). However, they can be quite slippery at times.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ntb1001 said:


> Here is my complete build.
> Great Keen carbon frame, painted and decal-ed with decals clear coated.
> Carbon bars, stem & seatpost from Great Keen.
> SLX group from ebay.
> ...


Why is your bike being used in ebay ads? I take it you are a schill?


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

omesh said:


> for what its worth, I think THIS might be the 29er frame:
> 
> https://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt340/ayi998/DSC_0020.jpg
> 
> will confirm soon.


Any updates on the 29er frame from ebay?


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Hi all and some nice rides you have here.
Cheap taiwanese etc carbon frames are fantastic and a great way to experience the joy of a superb ride.
I have had a CKT(cycling king taiwan or cycling knowledge taiwan) carbon hardtail for approx 6 years and it has done a lot of km's. I have done all my taining and racing on this frame including solo 12 and 24hr races.
This is how mine is at the moment after being repainted a few months ago.(Green bike)

In saying this, I have a small crack (1cm) just behind the head tube in the lug. I had a pretty decent fall when the bike was 2 weeks old and thought I had stuffed it then, it has done me well to get this far.

I have ridden and raced MTB since Feb 1990 and only ever ridden hardtails.

I have just ordered a new 3K carbon hardtail from 10wonderfullife on ebay US. (nude carbon)

Total cost of $AUS 342.72 delivered to Australia.
Will build as soon as it arrives as I am a certified bicycle mechanic, and will inform of quality and build etc.

Cheers
Shane


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm gonna get this one Hongfu HF-FM016 19" in 3K clearcoat from carbonzone on ebay. I wanted something without brake bosses on the chain stay and also preferred 3K. I'm gonna strip another bike for components because I'm short of cash and the wife would kill me if I blew a bunch of money. All I need is headset and seatpost. The frame diagram indicates there is a little ridge inside the headtube like maybe it was designed specifically for the FSA headset. What headsets will work?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

waltermitty said:


> I'm gonna get this one Hongfu HF-FM016 19" in 3K clearcoat from carbonzone on ebay. I wanted something without brake bosses on the chain stay and also preferred 3K. I'm gonna strip another bike for components because I'm short of cash and the wife would kill me if I blew a bunch of money. All I need is headset and seatpost. The frame diagram indicates there is a little ridge inside the headtube like maybe it was designed specifically for the FSA headset. What headsets will work?


This frame is different than mine, so I don't know what headset will work. Its either going to be a zero stack (semi-integrated) or an integrated headset. You should contact the seller to find out which type.


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## pop_martian (Mar 20, 2007)

The 29er frame is $430.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Do tell???


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## pop_martian (Mar 20, 2007)

bsieb said:


> Do tell???


I emailed the seller and asked the price. He told me $430.


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

pop_martian said:


> I emailed the seller and asked the price. He told me $430.


For the benefit of those of us waiting for a 29er, can you please provide seller ID on ebay? Also do they have a full range of sizes available? Are these 12k or 3k carbon? post mount or IS disc? More info bro!


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## pop_martian (Mar 20, 2007)

ranier said:


> For the benefit of those of us waiting for a 29er, can you please provide seller ID on ebay? Also do they have a full range of sizes available? Are these 12k or 3k carbon? post mount or IS disc? More info bro!


Here is all the info that I have so far. This is exactly the response that I got:

hi thanks for your message,
price is 430USD/set.
so need your email adress please to send the geometry to you please?
thanks~!
www.hongfu-bikes.com

- anybaby8088


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Can someone with a 20" frame measure the headtube size? 

I've got a dimension from the bay, but I just wanted to confirm it. 

seems to vary from 120mm to 150mm depending on the frame....

TIA


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

civil said:


> Can someone with a 20" frame measure the headtube size?
> 
> I've got a dimension from the bay, but I just wanted to confirm it.
> 
> ...


Mine is 150mm.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

PatrickK said:


> Mine is 150mm.


Thanks Patrick,

One more Q if you don't mind:

Do your rear IS mounts look like the first or second pic?

I found that the 20" frame in the first pic had a HT of 120mm while the 20" frame in the second pic had a 150mm headtube. I just want to triple check as the fork I have has a short steerer.

Thanks again:thumbsup:


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

civil said:


> Thanks Patrick,
> 
> One more Q if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


Both Bianchi and "Fake Felt" rear are IS mount. If you are using 160mm rotors you will not need any adapters. Let me know if you have any more questions. I bought my frame from "carboncycles" on ebay.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

My frame has arrived and certainly quick delivery to Oz  
Frame was very well packed and better than most bikes from our stores suppliers.
Carbon looks good and finish looks just as good.
Cable routing is a little close to the head tube making the cable outers bend quite a lot, not enough to affect shifting though.:thumbsup: 
There is just enough clearance for my new Maxxis Aspen 2.25 on the rear as any bigger and it wouldn't fit between the seat stays where they arc inwards.

Weighed the bare frame with derailleur hanger and bidon screws when I unpacked it, 1300gms. About the same weight of my CKT taiwanese carbon.

It built up very easily and everything fitted very well.:thumbsup: 

Will fine tune tomorrow and post pics of bare frame and completed bike then as well. 

Cheers.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I can't wait to see your build. I am wondering which frame style you got, my frame has a ton of rear tire room. Mine will fit a 2.3 Nevegal with plenty of mud clearance.


----------



## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Here are the pics I promised


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

Nice build, any idea what the weight ended up being?


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

10.9 kg with Maxxis Aspen 2.25 tyres. About 500 grams less with my fast tyres:thumbsup:


----------



## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

10.9 kg with Maxxis Aspen 2.25 tyres. About 500 grams less with my fast tyres:thumbsup:


----------



## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

10.9 kg with Maxxis Aspen 2.25 tyres. About 500 grams less with my fast tyres:thumbsup:


----------



## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Whoops sorry for the multi post, didn't seem to want to load so hit upload again and it must have


----------



## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

shanesbw said:


> Here are the pics I promised


Bike looks good shanesbw. Did you have to do any frame prep? From the pics looks like the headset is an integrated type. Did you face and chase the bottom bracket?


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

ranier said:


> Bike looks good shanesbw. Did you have to do any frame prep? From the pics looks like the headset is an integrated type. Did you face and chase the bottom bracket?


No frame prep required at all, checked BB threads before installing and frame was faced from the factory.
As I said, very easy and impressive to build:thumbsup: 
The headset is an integrated one and frame came with crown race, bearings, split top wedge and spacer washers/top cap fittings.

The brake cable guides even had the plastic inserts for the hydraulic hoses to be shimmed and at the rear seat stays the proper hydraulic cable locking clips were supplied:thumbsup:

Cheers


----------



## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

thinking of building one of these in a 26er classic 3x9 setup with some budget carbon parts and equipment i have laying about as a nice change from my tank-heavy handjob that tips the scales at nearly 32# with its heavy azonic rims.

any tips as to which ebay seller is the "best" in terms of frame quality and turnaround, there are at least half of a dozen out there peddling these things.


----------



## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi, I've been wanting to build a nice lightweight SS for the trails around here. Current SS is an old stumpjumper and while it's good I want lighter and newer. I've managed to break 2 FS mountain bikes (shitty metal) but my stumpy has endured for well over 10 years. I ride western colorado which includes lots of rock gardens, rock steps and drops... Every once in awhile I head into the hills for some smooth fast singletrack. Anyways I think the trails can be pretty rough out here. 

For those of you that have this frame what do you ride it on? Are you aggressive? I want to put on some big tires on some beefy rims, a 15mm axle and 100mm fork. I reckon it should be right around 20lbs. Thanks.


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## Harry_Dog (Feb 1, 2007)

Finished my SS a month ago. I ride NJ trails. Mostly rocky and rooty. Not quite the elevation as Colorado. I've been riding since 1989. This is my fist SS and am loving it. I've even taken apart and cleaned my Ibis Mojo for the rest of the season. 

I take my Ebay Carbon SS over the same lines I would with my Mojo without a hitch. Of course there is a difference between a fully suspended bike and a HT, but not so much that I cannot enjoy the SS.

My Mojo is build light ~26lbs and the ebay carbon SS comes in at ~20.3lbs. I've even removed (Dremel) all cable stops. Just filled in the hole from the rivets with electric tape.

What year and frame material is you Stumpy? I had a Metal Matrix and loved that as well.

Hope this helps.


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

I ordered a frame off eBay from carbonzone $340 + $80 shipping on 30 Sep 10. There was a Chinese holiday 1 - 4 October. Frame shipped the 7th and I received it today the 12th. Frame arrived in good shape USPS. Claimed weight was 1200 +/- 40. Actual weight 1349.6 with deraileur hanger. Looks really nice to me but this is my first carbon frame.

Good communication from these folks. There was tracking from from Shen Zhen, in South China near Hong Kong until it arrived in San Francisco.


----------



## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

i scanned through all the pages on this thread and i may have missed it but i have a question. which frame is better? the 3k or 12k frame? im a heavy rider at 5'9" and 215#. ill be riding the streets around town and the trails at alafia state park. im new to mountain biking but when i rode bmx and freestyle dirt jumping i rode hard. 

thanks!


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## ntb1001 (Apr 30, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> Why is your bike being used in ebay ads? I take it you are a schill?


No, I just sent them some photo's of my finished bike. They were very good to deal with, and I'm currently buying a couple of road frames frame them, so I thought I would send something to so how happy I was with the purchase. I guess they decided to post the pictures on there web site.


----------



## stevemtu (Mar 29, 2006)

*I have this frame*



waltermitty said:


> I'm gonna get this one Hongfu HF-FM016 19" in 3K clearcoat from carbonzone on ebay. I wanted something without brake bosses on the chain stay and also preferred 3K. I'm gonna strip another bike for components because I'm short of cash and the wife would kill me if I blew a bunch of money. All I need is headset and seatpost. The frame diagram indicates there is a little ridge inside the headtube like maybe it was designed specifically for the FSA headset. What headsets will work?


It is being used for cyclocross (which is really like short track here)...built up from parts stripped from my Anthem X. The Anthem X headset transferred over to this frame, but not sure what that headset was. Will rebuild the AX 2x10 for the spring.

It has been ridden in 7 or 8 cross races and crashed several times (though not on sharp rocks). It is holding up fine despite the incredibly thin seat stays. These thin stays do seem to soak up trail noise in the rear (IMHO).

Enjoy


----------



## beagledadi (Jul 18, 2004)

nate. said:


> i scanned through all the pages on this thread and i may have missed it but i have a question. which frame is better? the 3k or 12k frame? im a heavy rider at 5'9" and 215#.
> 
> thanks!


I had the same question in mind after I saw the carbon thread photos. I'm interested also.

Matt


----------



## s1ned (Sep 8, 2009)

pop_martian said:


> Here is all the info that I have so far. This is exactly the response that I got:
> 
> hi thanks for your message,
> price is 430USD/set.
> ...


29er frame is in 45 day backorder (anyone bought it?!). As far as seller said they have 16", 17.5" and 19" sized. 17.5" frame geometry is 99% identical to Stampjumper.
I've made an order. Will get new frame in 2 month (hopefully).


----------



## beagledadi (Jul 18, 2004)

It sounds to me like it's just for looks.......

http://storckbicycle.com/usa/index.php?c=tech&s=carbonfiber

Many people ask "What's the difference between 1K, 3K, and 12K carbon fiber?". So let's start off by explaining how carbon weaves are measured and make our way to the difference in the fibers and their characteristics in relation to Storck Bicycles.

Carbon fiber is measured by the width of the weave. For instance, a 1K weave will be approximatley 1mm in width while a 12K weave will be much larger at approximatley 12mm and so forth.

The outer layer of any carbon frame serves several purposes. The first purpose is to provide a cosmetic layer of carbon giving the frame it's final look. Secondly, it provides a final touch to the ride of the bicycle. Some weaves are more rigid than others and some weaves flex more providing more supple ride characteristics. Some people will say that the weave you choose does not make a difference in overall ride quality. If that is the case then our Fascenario 0.7 and 0.8 should produce the exact same stiffness numbers, as they are made the same with the only difference being the outer layer of carbon. The fact is that the 12K carbon used in the Fascenario 0.8 makes the bike stiffer and can be seen in stiffness-to-weight measurements.

So, what are the characteristics of each weave that Storck uses in relation to our bicycles?

1K - 1K is a very rare fiber used in the cycling industry. It is lighter than other fibers and provides a more supple ride than a larger weave. These smaller carbon fibers also display the incredible amount of craftsmanship needed to complete one of our bikes. The Fascenario 0.7 is the only model in the Storck line that features this coveted carbon.

2K - 2K is the rarest carbon fiber available on the market. It is produced by no more than 2 carbon manufacturers in the world. The Fascenario 0.7IS is the only bicycle in the world featuring this carbon. 2K carbon provides the optimum ride characteristics to pair with our VVC frames. This gives the bike perfect stiffness, low weight, and great vertical compliance (comfort).

3K - 3K is the most common carbon fiber that you will find externally on a bicycle. It provides a comfortable ride while still allowing the bike to be stiff and strong enough to handle a powerful rider in the midst of his/her best sprint.

12K - 12K is the largest weave and the stiffest. This outer layer featured on the Fascenario 0.8 makes for the stiffest "feeling" ride of all three. It is slightly heavier and much less expensive to use in production, hence the price difference in the Fascenario 0.7 and the Fascenario 0.8.

Uni-Directional - Uni-Directional (UD) carbon is another type of carbon fiber that can be used to create a carbon bicycle. UD carbon has fibers that run the same way rather than being woven together. This carbon is used on the Fenomalist and Aero UD in the Storck line-up.


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## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

Saw that. It doesn't really say what's better. It just gives the differences.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

nate. said:


> Saw that. It doesn't really say what's better. It just gives the differences.


With these frames the 3K, or 12K weave is just the outer cosmetic weave. Think of it like paint. Pick the one that you think looks the best.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

I don't think it's an objective question of better, just which ride characteristics you prefer; stiff as possible, plush as possible, or somewhere in between.


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## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> With these frames the 3K, or 12K weave is just the outer cosmetic weave. Think of it like paint. Pick the one that you think looks the best.


gotcha.



Sid Nitzerglobin said:


> I don't think it's an objective question of better, just which ride characteristics you prefer; stiff as possible, plush as possible, or somewhere in between.


i want as hard to break as possible. im a toss the bike in the bed of the truck and go ride kinda guy. i dont wanna have to bubble wrap my bike. but im not gonna misuse or abuse it either.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

The 12k will give the highest rigid ride so probably not the best for XC or AM riding as the frame will have less "give" when doing different items. The 3k is a mix between the lightest and most flexible and the stiffest and most rigid. For what I would be doing in mtn biking I would definitely go with the 3k as it seems to give a good balance of stiffness and flex. 

I tried the Hongfu-bikes.com link and got nothing, giving a 404 error. Any idea whats going on. I am in the process of trying to decide on a 29er frame and if the carbon is only $400ish then I may go with that!


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

nate. said:


> i want as hard to break as possible. im a toss the bike in the bed of the truck and go ride kinda guy. i dont wanna have to bubble wrap my bike. but im not gonna misuse or abuse it either.


I'm not a carbon expert, but I don't think the fiber width of the outer layer is going to make or break durability. My limited understanding is that the outer layers are going to influence damping of vibrations more than anything else and have a somewhat smaller effect on the amount of flex but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

gregnash said:


> I tried the Hongfu-bikes.com link and got nothing, giving a 404 error. Any idea whats going on. I am in the process of trying to decide on a 29er frame and if the carbon is only $400ish then I may go with that!


I'm going with the 3k carbon mtb frame, no bosses painted white I think,

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/ works for me?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

There seems to be a lot of confusion as to how a carbon frame is made. A carbon frame is rarely made up of exclusively one type of weave or fiber orientation. Most use different types of weaves and orientations on different parts of the frame to get the desired ride qualities. This is what makes the ride quality of carbon so superior to any other frame material, because it can be tuned with different weaves and orientations in different parts of the frame. The final layer of carbon is just a cosmetic layer and has only a little effect on the strength or stiffness of the frame. Higher end frames are going to use more sophisticated use of different weaves and oreintations and use high tech processes to remove all air from the epoxy. The ebay carbon frames are advertised as 3K or 12K depending on what the final cosmetic weave is. There is no way to know what weaves are actually used in the construction of these frames as I doubt the sellers have any idea. Though based on the price, I would not expect it to be very complex design. 

As far as strength goes, there will really be no difference between the 3K and the 12K frames. But keep in mind that while carbon is the strongest frame material, it is also the weakest. The tensile strength of carbon fiber is way stonger than steel or titanium. However carbon cannot tolerate much bending, so actual impacts to the frame from large rocks or crashes can crack it. So while you can feel free to abuse it on the trail, you probably don't want to just "toss it" into the back of your truck. You want to avoid all abrasion (make sure to protect the frame from cable rub) and impacts to your frame.


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## Infernal (Oct 14, 2010)

Hello guys. I just want to ask, how theese frames work compared to average metal ones (Al, etc..) in what spec. are they different. Are they really worth it or they are just nice cool looking pieces for swaggering and showing off. Thanks for help


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Infernal said:


> Hello guys. I just want to ask, how theese frames work compared to average metal ones (Al, etc..) in what spec. are they different. Are they really worth it or they are just nice cool looking pieces for swaggering and showing off. Thanks for help


These frames have the same geometry as metal XC frames, but that is about all they have in common. Carbon frames can be built to have compliance like steel, but stiffness like aluminum. That is something that you cannot do with a metal frame, no matter what custom builder tells you otherwise. Carbon fiber also is stronger than both steel and titanium (and obviously aluminum), so you can ride them hard. These frames are about 0.5 lbs lighter than the highest end aluminum frames, so if you want to build a light bike then these are a good starting point.

Are they worth it? Well considering they are superior to metal frames in every category except impact reisitance, and they cost less than any high end metal frames, I would say they are definitely worth it. As far as showing off, you won't impress very many people with a generic frame so if that is what you are looking for you should look elsewhere.


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## Infernal (Oct 14, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> These frames have the same geometry as metal XC frames, but that is about all they have in common. Carbon frames can be built to have compliance like steel, but stiffness like aluminum. That is something that you cannot do with a metal frame, no matter what custom builder tells you otherwise. Carbon fiber also is stronger than both steel and titanium (and obviously aluminum), so you can ride them hard. These frames are about 0.5 lbs lighter than the highest end aluminum frames, so if you want to build a light bike then these are a good starting point.
> 
> Are they worth it? Well considering they are superior to metal frames in every category except impact reisitance, and they cost less than any high end metal frames, I would say they are definitely worth it. As far as showing off, you won't impress very many people with a generic frame so if that is what you are looking for you should look elsewhere.


And what is the main practical difference? I mean are they faster, more comfortable, precise etc.?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Infernal said:


> And what is the main practical difference? I mean are they faster, more comfortable, precise etc.?


Well I suppose I assumed the differences would be obvious.

Stiffer- more power transfer, so less wasted energy. The frame will also track better.

More compliant- The bike beats you up less over bumps

Lighter- Makes climbing and acceleration easier

Do all these things mean you will be faster? Maybe. First of all if you aren't fast, a carbon bike won't do much for you because you will not be able to maximize its potential. Second of all, you have to build it up with light parts to exploit its full potential. My advice to you would be to go test ride a high end carbon hardtail at your LBS, you will more than likely see the benefits then.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

*Updated pics*

Here are some updated pics of my bike. I put on a WTB Silverado saddle, XT 10 speed rear derailleur, SLX 10 speed shifters, Ultegra 10 speed 11-28T cassette, Ritchey Pro Paradigm pedals and an XTR M970 crankset. The bike currently sits at 21.6 pounds. If you have not tried Shimano 10 speed dyna sys, I highly recommend it. The rear shifter has increased cable pull (similar to SRAM) making rear shifts much more precise. Unfortunately it also means the 10 speed shifters are incompatable with 9 speed rear derailleurs. I have been riding this bike for 1 year and 10 months. Its still holding up great, and it is still the funnest bike I have ever owned.


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## mainlane (Mar 28, 2007)

thats really nice...has anyone tried a 120mm fork on this frame yet?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

mainlane said:


> thats really nice...has anyone tried a 120mm fork on this frame yet?


I thought someone posted that they had, but I can't find it. I know that they did not post pics.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Anyone receive a geometry chart for the 29er frames yet??


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

TR said:


> Anyone receive a geometry chart for the 29er frames yet??


Here you go, I received this from hongfu-bikes for the 29er:

View attachment HF-FM053-17.5.pdf


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## Infernal (Oct 14, 2010)

Im just curious, wich size did you get and how tall are you? Im 180cm tall, so normaly I look for frames abou 18-19 inches, but when Im looking at geometry of theese frames I think that I should take 20".


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Infernal said:


> Im just curious, wich size did you get and how tall are you? Im 180cm tall, so normaly I look for frames abou 18-19 inches, but when Im looking at geometry of theese frames I think that I should take 20".


Are you asking me? I am 5' 10" (or 180cm). I have long legs and a shorter torso, so the 18" fits me great. When I am looking for a bike I look for about a 575mm effective top tube measurement and I like to use a 120mm stem. So the 18" frame I have is exactly 575mm so it is perfect.


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## yuriart10 (Oct 18, 2010)

I like the clean look without stickers.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Just had the frame delivered, thanks to this thread (ljsmith and others for the details). Everything looks good, but I have a headset question:

No headset was included, so I had a cane creek ZSC-1 (zero stack) that I decided to put in. I've done a few headset's before and have my own tool (threaded rod/nut with washers).

The top cup went in fine, but there is a small gap on the bottom one...maybe 1 mm, even all the way around. I'm afraid to go any harder.....what does every one else's look like? I know it should sit flush.....but I'm afraid if I crank on it anymore bad things might happen.......Should I leave it?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

civil said:


> Just had the frame delivered, thanks to this thread (ljsmith and others for the details). Everything looks good, but I have a headset question:
> 
> No headset was included, so I had a cane creek ZSC-1 (zero stack) that I decided to put in. I've done a few headset's before and have my own tool (threaded rod/nut with washers).
> 
> The top cup went in fine, but there is a small gap on the bottom one...maybe 1 mm, even all the way around. I'm afraid to go any harder.....what does every one else's look like? I know it should sit flush.....but I'm afraid if I crank on it anymore bad things might happen.......Should I leave it?


If it were me I would not leave it like that, but I would not force it in either. I would remove the headset and inspect the inside of the heatube to see if something is obstructing it. I also would make sure that both cups are the same length, or if there is one that is specific to the botom and top. If I didn't see anything, I would lube up the cups and headtube real well and try pressing them in again. If it still doesn't sit flush, I would take it to a LBS to get a second opinion. You may need to tell them it is a brand name frame with the decals removed, because LBS mechanics are likely to just say it is a bad frame without really looking at it if they find out it is a generic frame. They may also be able to press the cups in for you with a professional headset tool. With a metal frame I would say force it in, but you could crack the carbon, so you need to be careful.


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

I just put in a Cane Creek ZS-3. No problem. Wonder if the dimensions are different.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> ......snip.......






waltermitty said:


> I just put in a Cane Creek ZS-3. No problem. Wonder if the dimensions are different.


thanks guys, yeah, I think I'm going to have to remove the cup and check for obstructions.....I could have sworn it was clear before i started :madman:

Secondly, walter, the lower cup was deeper than the top cup (ZS-3 same size for both). However, earlier in the thread a guy reported using the ZSC-1 without issue, and all instructions note that the deeper cup goes into the bottom of the headtube.. If the headtube looks clear, I'll just go and source a lower cup from the ZS-3 line.

Thanks again guys.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Turns out the lower cup on the ZSC-1 is slightly taller than the upper, unlike the ZS-3/ZS 110 where the cups are the same.

Went to the LBS and we switched cups (awesome LBS) and all was well.

Looking forward to building this guy up.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

What carbon fork would be good with these frames? What offset and length?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> What carbon fork would be good with these frames? What offset and length?


The geometry is based on a 440mm axle to crown fork. So if you want a 71 degree head angle that is what you should look for. Every 20mm change in Z to C will change the head anglee roughly 0.5 degrees. As far as offset, I suppose it depends on how fast you want the bike to steer. I haven't ridden a rigid bike in a long time, so I don't spend much time paying attention to fork offsets.


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## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

................


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## waltermitty (Jul 31, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> The geometry is based on a 440mm axle to crown fork. So if you want a 71 degree head angle that is what you should look for. Every 20mm change in Z to C will change the head anglee roughly 0.5 degrees. As far as offset, I suppose it depends on how fast you want the bike to steer. I haven't ridden a rigid bike in a long time, so I don't spend much time paying attention to fork offsets.


My diagram shows 450 for a 19" frame.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

shanesbw said:


> My frame has arrived and certainly quick delivery to Oz
> Frame was very well packed and better than most bikes from our stores suppliers.
> Carbon looks good and finish looks just as good.
> Cable routing is a little close to the head tube making the cable outers bend quite a lot, not enough to affect shifting though.:thumbsup:
> ...


Where did you get it from?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> These frames have the same geometry as metal XC frames


The top tube length seems to be on the short side.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Where did you get it from?


US ebay site and seller was 10wonderfullife.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks again to the OP/thread contributors. 

Here is my build, a few things to finish/clean up but you get the idea. No rides yet as I woke up to snow yesterday.......and oh yes, a chain usually helps 

I'm going to leave the rear hydraulic hose long as it give me a good way to hang the bike.

Fox F80 RLC
Fulcrum RM 5
RF Deus bar/crank/stem
Shimano XT/XT/XT/XTR/XTR cassette/shifter/FD/RD/pedals
thomson masterpiece post
avid juicy 7 185/160

build weight 23.5 lbs


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

civil said:


> I'm going to leave the rear hydraulic hose long as it give me a good way to hang the bike.


You're kidding right?


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## Borgschulze (Nov 5, 2007)

Hahaha, man you didn't know, hanging your bike by the hydraulic hoses is the best way.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

ranier said:


> You're kidding right?


I kid, I kid


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

civil said:


> Thanks again to the OP/thread contributors.
> 
> Here is my build, a few things to finish/clean up but you get the idea. No rides yet as I woke up to snow yesterday.......and oh yes, a chain usually helps
> 
> ...


That's the one I am thinking about getting. I like the chain/seat stay junction on that one better, it looks stronger. Im not a big fan of the 12k, but that one doesn't come in 3k. And the price is pretty good.

What size is yours?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350405539831&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's the one I am thinking about getting. I like the chain/seat stay junction on that one better, it looks stronger. Im not a big fan of the 12k, but that one doesn't come in 3k. And the price is pretty good.
> 
> What size is yours?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350405539831&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


Yeah, for some reason I preferred that junction as well. However, I too liked the 3k weave, but I required a 125mm headtube, otherwise I would have gotten this one, it may interest you, same rear junction, but 3K:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3k-full-Carbon-...7015688?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item27b5fd8688

Mine is a 20"


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

civil said:


> Yeah, for some reason I preferred that junction as well. However, I too liked the 3k weave, but I required a 125mm headtube, otherwise I would have gotten this one, it may interest you, same rear junction, but 3K:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/3k-full-Carbon-Mountain-MTB-Frame-17-19-21-/170557015688?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item27b5fd8688
> 
> Mine is a 20"


Don't like the wussy looking seat stay and top tube.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

civil said:


> Thanks again to the OP/thread contributors.
> 
> Here is my build, a few things to finish/clean up but you get the idea. No rides yet as I woke up to snow yesterday.......and oh yes, a chain usually helps
> 
> ...


Do you have a picture of the set/chain stay junction on the drake side? is it all solid like the other side?


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Do you have a picture of the set/chain stay junction on the drake side? is it all solid like the other side?


I don't have a picture on hand, but I can snap one later tonight. Though yes, it's solid like the DS.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

civil said:


> I don't have a picture on hand, but I can snap one later tonight. Though yes, it's solid like the DS.


Thats ok, if you say its solid, no picture needed.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> The top tube length seems to be on the short side.


This is incorrect. I understand that you asked about the geometry of this frame in another thread and had a few people say this. But that does not make it correct. Just as I said in the other thread, it is classic XC geometry. Most XC riders are using longer stems to aid in climbing. So no, unless you want a trail or AM bike, which this is not, it is not a short top tube.


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## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

dear mods, 

could you please make this thread go away. im new to mountain biking and bought a new felt q520 a few weeks ago. im having a real hard time not dropping $400 on one of these frames and switching all my stuff over to it from the felt. they are just so damn purdy.

thanks.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> This is incorrect. I understand that you asked about the geometry of this frame in another thread and had a few people say this. But that does not make it correct. Just as I said in the other thread, it is classic XC geometry. Most XC riders are using longer stems to aid in climbing. So no, unless you want a trail or AM bike, which this is not, it is not a short top tube.


I also have been comparing them to the bikes that I already have that fit me, and comparing them to some high end frames and they seem a little short to me. I have a HT now that is to short, it's an 18" and it is uncomfortable to ride. But I also know it makes a difference on how the TT is measured. But if you guys say they are ok, then I'll go with it. I gotta sell some of my Mountain Cycle stuff first, before I can justify spending more money on bikes.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I also have been comparing them to the bikes that I already have that fit me, and comparing them to some high end frames and they seem a little short to me. I have a HT now that is to short, it's an 18" and it is uncomfortable to ride. But I also know it makes a difference on how the TT is measured. But if you guys say they are ok, then I'll go with it. I gotta sell some of my Mountain Cycle stuff first, before I can justify spending more money on bikes.


Well the 18" is a medium, and I think if you compare it to other manufacturers medium frames you would see that many use similar top tube lengths. Among those are the Scott Scale, Jamis Dakota, Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail and Cannondale Flash. All of those are high end frames that no one would find a problem with their geometry. Mediums with longer top tubes are not the norm, like the Trek 9.9.

I would highly suggest you get a fitting at an LBS if you are unsure of what you need. Bikes should all be sized by their top tube lengths, so you need to make sure you get the right one.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Stop focussing on whether it is a S, M, L etc or whether it is a 17, 18, 20 or whatever other number it has on it.
Check your ETT measurement and buy the one that suits best.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> Well the 18" is a medium, and I think if you compare it to other manufacturers medium frames you would see that many use similar top tube lengths. Among those are the Scott Scale, Jamis Dakota, Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail and Cannondale Flash. All of those are high end frames that no one would find a problem with their geometry. Mediums with longer top tubes are not the norm, like the Trek 9.9.
> 
> I would highly suggest you get a fitting at an LBS if you are unsure of what you need. Bikes should all be sized by their top tube lengths, so you need to make sure you get the right one.


Couldn't agree more as bikes just don't measure like they used to, top tube length is the best to determine what the majority of people need in a bike size, I queried the sizing on some of these frames too. Check where the measurements are taken from as some measure the top tube length from centre of steerer tube to centre of seat tube(straight up from the junction) which makes the tt seem very short. Effective top tube length is basically measured parallel to the ground and centre of head tube/steerer tube to centre of seat tube where the line would meet the seatpost.


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## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

TR said:


> Stop focussing on whether it is a S, M, L etc or whether it is a 17, 18, 20 or whatever other number it has on it.
> Check your ETT measurement and buy the one that suits best.


whats that?


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

nate. said:


> whats that?


shanesbw has explained it pretty well in his post.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

nate. said:


> whats that?


ETT= effective top tube length. In the image below it is # 5. This is the most critical measurement when choosing a frame, much more important than the seat tube length.


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## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

gotcha. thanks.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> ETT= effective top tube length. In the image below it is # 5. This is the most critical measurement when choosing a frame, much more important than the seat tube length.


In this example:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-12K-Full-Carbon-MTB-Mountain-Bike-Frame-18-/330489534710?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item4cf2b618f6

They show the ETT measured like it should be, #5. But it is short at 575mm. The same length as the other frames that are mesured with the improper method, verticle down to the seat tube, instead of parallel to the seat post. So whats up? Are they showing the proper way to measure but using the measurment from the other method? Or do I have it all bacwards?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

TR said:


> Stop focussing on whether it is a S, M, L etc or whether it is a 17, 18, 20 or whatever other number it has on it.
> Check your ETT measurement and buy the one that suits best.


The problem is, they don't seem to be consistent with the way they measure the top tube.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> The problem is, they don't seem to be consistent with the way they measure the top tube.


They are either measuring it as ETT or actual.
*YOU *need to find out the difference and ensure you are purchasing appropriately.
Some big name bike companies also provide different measurements.
If you are not confident being able to do this then perhaps buying sight unseen is not for you.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I was looking at the Niner Air 9 Carbon. Even their small frame has a 11.7mm longer top tube length then these Asian CF frames.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I was looking at the Niner Air 9 Carbon. Even their small frame has a 11.7mm longer top tube length then these Asian CF frames.


I am going to guess that the geometry chart for the Asian frame you have posted is incorrect.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I was looking at the Niner Air 9 Carbon. Even their small frame has a 11.7mm longer top tube length then these Asian CF frames.


You are comparing apples and oranges. A 29er frame ALWAYS has a longer top tube to eliminate toe overlap. You need to get over this whole "short top tube" thing you have in your mind. Find out what size top tube you need, and then just get the frame that has that length. There is no short or long. There is what you need and what you don't need. This frame fits me perfectly, and I have very average proportions, so how can you say it is short? The problem is that you don't know what you need and you are making opinions based on other frames. GO GET SIZED. I used a fit system and it said I needed a 580mm ETT, so this frame works really well for me. But that size may not work for you, so find out which one you need. If 580 is too short, than buy the next larger size, its that simple.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> You are comparing apples and oranges. A 29er frame ALWAYS has a longer top tube to eliminate toe overlap.


Sorry but I dont believe this is true.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

TR said:


> Sorry but I dont believe this is true.


You don't have to believe it for it to be true. There are many geometry compromises that are made with 29er frames. This isn't exactly unheard of in the industry.

But I would ask you, do you think that 29ers should use all the same geometry measurements as a 26er? I don't know many people who would think that. So it is apples to oranges. Do you think that 26ers should use the same chainstay length as a 29er? No C riders think long chainstays are good, but with a 29er you have no choice. just like you have no choice but to have a long top tube.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

ETT will not change one bit between a 26er and a 29er.
ETT is what we have been discussing so I have assumed you are on the same topic.
Actual TT may change but ETT will not.
HT and ST angles will change too.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> You don't have to believe it for it to be true. There are many geometry compromises that are made with 29er frames. This isn't exactly unheard of in the industry.
> 
> But I would ask you, do you think that 29ers should use all the same geometry measurements as a 26er? I don't know many people who would think that. So it is apples to oranges. Do you think that 26ers should use the same chainstay length as a 29er? No C riders think long chainstays are good, but with a 29er you have no choice. just like you have no choice but to have a long top tube.


So you are saying that just about everyone who rides a 29er is riding a bike that in most cases is way to long for them? Because even the small ones have a longer top tube then the large 26er frames. So what's the point of getting fitted for a bike?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So you are saying that just about everyone who rides a 29er is riding a bike that in most cases is way to long for them? Because even the small ones have a longer top tube then the large 26er frames. So what's the point of getting fitted for a bike?


Well you continue to misunderstand fitting oneself to a frame. WIth 29ers several geometry compromises have to be made, this is not some secret, most builders readily admit this. With a longer top tube you will need to use a shorter stem. That is how you size yourself to a bike, by changing stem length. However in another thread you were dead set on using a 100mm stem. If you are commited to using one stem length, then you have to get the right top tube length or you cannot fit yourself to the frame. In other words you need to size your frame to your stem. Its much easier to size the stem to the frame. If you are willing to switch stems to get the right fit, then you can buy a frame with a shorter or longer top tube than ideal and use stem length to dial it in.

There are numerous articles on bike fit and geometry online, as well as books you can buy. I suggest you find one, because it seems to be a concept you have a lot of trouble with.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

TR said:


> ETT will not change one bit between a 26er and a 29er.
> ETT is what we have been discussing so I have assumed you are on the same topic.
> Actual TT may change but ETT will not.
> HT and ST angles will change too.


It would be extremely difficult to have two frames with vastly different ATT have the same ETT. They would have to have seriously different angles, and I am not talking about 1 or 2 degrees difference. 29ers typically have longer ETT for any given size, if you don't believe me just check out the geometry charts of 29ers. Some are not a whole lot longer, but are longer nonetheless. Shorter stems with negative rise are typically used on 29ers because of this and the additional front end height.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

*Bike Fit and Geometry*

Sorry this was a duplicate post


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

*Bike Fit and Geometry*

Okay I think this whole geometry/bike fit thing is getting out of hand. So I have a few points to make.

1. You always size a bike based on ETT. The seat sube length is only relevant for standover, but does not really affect how you will fit on the bike while riding.

2. There is no such thing as a short top tube, or a long top tube. The length of your top tube is dictated mainly by your body proportions and slightly by your riding style. If a top tube is short, then it is short for YOU, not for everybody.

3. Most production frames are designed to accomodate a wide range of riders by utilizing different stem lengths and rises as well as different seatpost heights, offsets and seat positions. If you are not having a frame custom made all of these factors need to be considered when fitting yourself to a frame. But you have to be realisitic here. If you buy a frame too small there is not going to be a seatpost or stem long enough to fit you on this frame. Same thing with too large a bike. Also you need to keep in mind the stem lengths affect on handling. So you want to get the frame as close as possible to begin with.

4. Comparing two frames is irrelevant. Which frame may work best for me may not be the same one that works best for you. You should be comparing your body proportions to the specific frame and deciding if it fits. Luckily all frames are not the exact same, it gives more flexibility in finding one that fits well.

5. If there are specfic stem lengths or seatpost offsets that you desire, then you need to figure that into your frame selection. If you are not willing to change your stem length or saddle position, then it is going to be much more critical that you get a frame that is the right size for you.

If you are interested in using a simple fit system you can try this one. Just keep in mind that it cannot ask you for any personal preferences, so this is just going to give you some general information.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> It would be extremely difficult to have two frames with vastly different ATT have the same ETT. They would have to have seriously different angles, and I am not talking about 1 or 2 degrees difference. 29ers typically have longer ETT for any given size, if you don't believe me just check out the geometry charts of 29ers. Some are not a whole lot longer, but are longer nonetheless. Shorter stems with negative rise are typically used on 29ers because of this and the additional front end height.


Mate
I have 2 29ers and previously had 26ers.

Have a look here:

Blur XC geometry









Tallboy (29er) geometry









Tallboy does not come in a small.
ETT remains the same across all applicable sizes.
Chainstay length is longer.
Wheelbase is also obviously longer.
Front wheel is accomodated by way of shorter HT on the Tallboy, not by longer ETT.
ST and HT angles are also different.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

TR said:


> Tallboy does not come in a small.
> ETT remains the same across all applicable sizes.
> Chainstay length is longer.
> Wheelbase is also obviously longer.
> ...


Do you think you might need to look at more than 1 manufacturer, and look at equivalent bikes before making a judgement call? 
But I really could not care at all about this, its a really stupid thing to argue about, so I am no longer going to address it.

Ultimately I am just here to try to help people who are interested in these carbon frames. It seems like I am catching a lot of flack over various issues concerning the top tube length of this frame. I am not the manufacturer, I cannot tell them to make it the "right size" because someone does not like it. If you think it is too short, don't buy it and go find a frame that has the "correct" top tube size. If you like the top tube length on a Niner frame, then go buy the Niner frame. I am not a salesperson, I am not here to convince you to buy one of these frames. I enjoy mine and just want to help other people who are interested. If it bothers anyone that I would say 29ers have longer ETT than 26ers than I am sorry and I won't mention it again.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> Okay, so you have 1 example. That does not mean that my general statement is not true. Do you mean to tell me that if I were to average the ETT of all 29ers made by all manufacturers that it would come out to roughly the same average of all 26ers?
> 
> But feel free to believe whatever you want, because personally I do not care and it really has nothing to do with this thread.


Yes that is exactly what I am saying.
ETT will be the same.
Want another example??

Anthem X1 26er

Anthem X29


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

TR said:


> Yes that is exactly what I am saying.
> ETT will be the same.
> Want another example??
> 
> ...


No you are obviously right, every 29er has the same ETT as a 26er. No generalizations can be made about ETT between 26ers and 29ers except to say they are the same. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

Now if we can get back to the actual topic of this thread that would be nice.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Accepted.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> Do you think you might need to look at more than 1 manufacturer, and look at equivalent bikes before making a judgement call?
> But I really could not care at all about this, its a really stupid thing to argue about, so I am no longer going to address it.
> 
> Ultimately I am just here to try to help people who are interested in these carbon frames. It seems like I am catching a lot of flack over various issues concerning the top tube length of this frame. I am not the manufacturer, I cannot tell them to make it the "right size" because someone does not like it. If you think it is too short, don't buy it and go find a frame that has the "correct" top tube size. If you like the top tube length on a Niner frame, then go buy the Niner frame. I am not a salesperson, I am not here to convince you to buy one of these frames. I enjoy mine and just want to help other people who are interested. If it bothers anyone that I would say 29ers have longer ETT than 26ers than I am sorry and I won't mention it again.


No one is giving you flack. I want to buy one of these, but I dont want to make a poor choice. I can see one thing that I am doing wrong, Im measuring my bikes with slacker angles. When I pick up the rear ends to approximate the steeper angles of these frames, it brings the ETT length much closer to the 575mm length that these medium carbon frames have. So I think with a small amount of setback post I am sure even I will be happy.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

slenzi said:


> I finished putting together my ebay carbon bike. Here it is in it's final form. So far I've only put about 30-35 miles on it, mostly on the road and smooth hard pack trail. No complaints thus far except for maybe the dics brakes I put on. They are Avid BB7s. They are my first disc breaks so maybe I haven't tuned them enough. There is more play in the levers than I am use to with my old v-brakes. If I tighten them more they rub... oh well. As for the frame it feels pretty solid. This is the first carbon frame I have ever ridden so it's difficult for me to compare. The bike I am coming from is a 98 Klein Attitude and it's rock hard stiff. You stand up and pedal and you rocket away. The carbon frame feels pretty close, maybe not quite as stiff....hard to tell really. I get the impression I feel less vibration, but there are different tires on each of them and the PSI could very well be different. In those 35 miles I haven't done anything that would really stress the frame beside ride off a curb. I did accidentally whack the frame against the corner of a wall as I was carrying the bike up some stairs and it looks like it held up fine. After I put some real miles on it and take it on some good trails I can write more.
> 
> Additional pics, http://picasaweb.google.com/slenzi/HongKongCarbon#


Can you give us a review?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I wanted to let you know that my wife had an accident on her carbon bike. She flew over the handlebars at 19 mile per hour, she is one piece with few bruises, bike looks the same but Elixir CR did not make it. It seems shoddy quality from AVID.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

PatrickK said:


> I wanted to let you know that my wife had an accident on her carbon bike. She flew over the handlebars at 19 mile per hour, she is one piece with few bruises, bike looks the same but Elixir CR did not make it. It seems shoddy quality from AVID.


Omg thats horrible....

Was the bike all right?

Just kidding, gald she is fine. On the subject of Avids, I had an accident and the Matchmaker on my rear side, broke clean in half. Just from the bars twisting around :skep:


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

shoryuken said:


> Omg thats horrible....
> 
> Was the bike all right?
> 
> Just kidding, gald she is fine. On the subject of Avids, I had an accident and the Matchmaker on my rear side, broke clean in half. Just from the bars twisting around :skep:


My wife is a tough cookie. It is her 4th major accident this year.:skep: We bike hard and fast so things happen. The bike is in pristine condition. I wanted to replace the lever but it is not worth. I bought two rear Avid Elixir R brakes on ebay without rotors for $150 with shipping.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

has anyone bought a frame from bikebicycle99 such as this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...8718967?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item3f04844cf7

they are the only (cheap) frames that I see that have a top tube length that even comes close to being reasonable

600 is bare minimum. 610 would be much better though


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Evan55 said:


> has anyone bought a frame from bikebicycle99 such as this one?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-Carbon-12K-Mountain-Bike-MTB-Frame-20-/270658718967?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item3f04844cf7
> 
> they are the only (cheap) frames that I see that have a top tube length that even comes close to being reasonable
> ...


I'd go with someone who has better feedback. Even if you have to pay a little more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/12k-full-Carbon-Mountain-MTB-Frame-16-18-20-/150504091286?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item230abe2e96


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'd go with someone who has better feedback. Even if you have to pay a little more.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/12k-full-Carbon-Mountain-MTB-Frame-16-18-20-/150504091286?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item230abe2e96


good call, that looks like a better seller. so this model is a well respected frame among the ebay frames? i dont have the 'eye' to differentiate them yet....


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yes from what I have read, they are very good. There are, I think three companies that make these frames for companies that we have heard of, and they charge a lot more for them. I am planning on buying the version that has the solid dropouts, it looks stronger to me. I'll post a link when I get home.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

And I plan on using a Trigon carbon fork.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I bought mine from carbocycles on ebay. I got the package within 4 business daus.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> I bought mine from carbocycles on ebay. I got the package within 4 business daus.


Did you mean Carbonzone?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Did you mean Carbonzone?


Nope, carboncycles. I have to decided to grab another Bianchi from greatkeen. I need a fast single track carbon hardtail. Chinese Bianchi is a superior design to the carbon frame I bought from ebay. Nevertheless, they both perform great.

Also, I wanted to I love riding carbon bikes. I feel like becoming one with the bike, it is super quiet, absorbs all the the bumps and is super fast.:thumbsup: I wish I had few grand to spend on a Specialized full suspension frame but I do not. I am going to have to live with my Pitch Comp.:thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> Nope, carboncycles. I have to decided to grab another Bianchi from greatkeen. I need a fast single track carbon hardtail. Chinese Bianchi is a superior design to the carbon frame I bought from ebay. Nevertheless, they both perform great.
> 
> Also, I wanted to I love riding carbon bikes. I feel like becoming one with the bike, it is super quiet, absorbs all the the bumps and is super fast.:thumbsup: I wish I had few grand to spend on a Specialized full suspension frame but I do not. I am going to have to live with my Pitch Comp.:thumbsup:


I did a search for that Ebay store and nothing came up. I just ordered a frame a couple days ago.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

PatrickK said:


> Chinese Bianchi is a superior design to the carbon frame I bought from ebay.


you really think you are getting a Bianchi frame from greetkeen?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

He knows they are not a "Bianchi" frame. Bianchi frames are not as good.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

What is that thing on your seatpost... under your saddle?



ljsmith said:


>


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

It's a suspension post.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

could someone with one of these frames please measure the length of the effective top tube with a level, from the head tube to where it intersects the seat post?

I really want to see if these published top tube measurements on ebay are accurate. They are VERY short and seems to me might be measured along the top tube itself instead of measured level


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Evan55 said:


> could someone with one of these frames please measure the length of the effective top tube with a level, from the head tube to where it intersects the seat post?
> 
> I really want to see if these published top tube measurements on ebay are accurate. They are VERY short and seems to me might be measured along the top tube itself instead of measured level


That's what I thought. But, I got slapped on the hand for thinking that, several posts back.


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

Ok- I have read every post on this thread. I am glad you guys posted this and it is very helpful. I really like the frame that this company has. They seem to have a lot of info on the web and a few sites that refer to them. This particular frame looks just like the stumpjumper and says it can have V+D or just D. I emailed to clarify but I am guessing they are talking about vbrakes or disc brakes. The website is gotobike.com.cn and the bike is the MTB750. Looks cool to me.


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Evan55 said:


> could someone with one of these frames please measure the length of the effective top tube with a level, from the head tube to where it intersects the seat post?
> 
> I really want to see if these published top tube measurements on ebay are accurate. They are VERY short and seems to me might be measured along the top tube itself instead of measured level


Around 580mm for my 20", assuming that my wall studs are vertical, so I'd say +/- 10mm.

Exactly what I was looking for (XC/race) and it fits quite well.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

These frames look really nice. Cheap too. I am almost tempted to try one but I could never buy anything made in China.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> These frames look really nice. Cheap too. I am almost tempted to try one but I could never buy anything made in China.


You must not buy much then.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

sandmangts said:


> These frames look really nice. Cheap too. I am almost tempted to try one but I could never buy anything made in China.


In a few years your President will be Chinese.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> In a few years your President will be Chinese.


I think my eyes are starting to slant!


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I think my eyes are starting to slant!


Then you are saved!


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

TR said:


> You must not buy much then.


It is hard to find alot of stuff like computers and electronics. I still buy from overseas manufacturers, just not China and a few other countries that treat their own people like slaves. I am not one of those people that will preach to you about buying American, I realize this is a global economy.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> It is hard to find alot of stuff like computers and electronics. I still buy from overseas manufacturers, just not China and a few other countries that treat their own people like slaves. I am not one of those people that will preach to you about buying American, I realize this is a global economy.


And it would seem you know little about modern China.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

TR said:


> And it would seem you know little about modern China.


It's like Japan was 40-50 years ago. Now look at Japan.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

TR said:


> And it would seem you know little about modern China.


On the contrary, I know that they have begun to unionize many industries and labor standards have improved quite a bit over the last decade. On the other hand you have companies that do not adhere to labor standards or environmental standards.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> On the contrary, I know that they have begun to unionize many industries and labor standards have improved quite a bit over the last decade. On the other hand you have companies that do not adhere to labor standards or environmental standards.


And that NEVER happens in any Western country.


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## boxman12 (Jun 13, 2004)

Less banter, moar pix.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Lets get back on topic. You can talk about buying foreign products in another thread or better yet, another forum.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

My brother ran a factory in China for a year or so recently. He was very impressed with the quality of manufacturing in factories he visited in the region. The main problem was corruption at the gov't level and the ubiquitous bribery required to accomplish anything official. Evidently foreign owned factories are held to a much higher standard, with many more permits required, while locally owned businesses slide right by.


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## p nut (Apr 19, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I think my eyes are starting to slant!


Wow, this thread smells cracka-riffic.

So sorry. Me leave now.


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## Zehd (Dec 17, 2005)

> Ok- I have read every post on this thread. I am glad you guys posted this and it is very helpful. I really like the frame that this company has. They seem to have a lot of info on the web and a few sites that refer to them. This particular frame looks just like the stumpjumper and says it can have V+D or just D. I emailed to clarify but I am guessing they are talking about vbrakes or disc brakes. The website is gotobike.com.cn and the bike is the MTB750. Looks cool to me.


It's not a Stumpy. It looks like these two "European bikes". The 17" frame weights just under 1200g! There're a lot of people buying these frames in Spain and they seem to love it... have a look at: https://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?t=595377


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

I am going to have to brush up on spanish to read but I get the jist of their conversation. Those frames look all alike and they resemble the stumpjumper with the sloping top tube. I know they are not the real thing but they look better I think that the other ones. I am guessing that if I were to buy one of these frames and weight it, it would be more than 1200 grams. For the price of $350- who cares? Thanks for info.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

slenzi said:


> I decided to pick up one of these carbon frames myself. I bought it from ebay seller 2allsport. They even sent me an extra derailleur hanger (which I asked for.) I'm still in the process of building it up so not sure how it rides, but it looks pretty decent to me...
> 
> More pics here.
> https://picasaweb.google.com/slenzi/HongKongCarbon


This is the exact frame I ordered, can't wait till it gets here.


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## foofighter275 (Jul 18, 2007)

pmarshall said:


> Ok- I have read every post on this thread. I am glad you guys posted this and it is very helpful. I really like the frame that this company has. They seem to have a lot of info on the web and a few sites that refer to them. This particular frame looks just like the stumpjumper and says it can have V+D or just D. I emailed to clarify but I am guessing they are talking about vbrakes or disc brakes. The website is gotobike.com.cn and the bike is the MTB750. Looks cool to me.


i fell in love w/ this frame at first sight so i emailed them and Cherry sent me the dwgs for their what seems to be Small, Medium, Large. Here's the small. I'm having a hard time deciding what frame as the ETT isnt what i'm used to when i decided on my road bike


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

foofighter29er said:


> i fell in love w/ this frame at first sight so i emailed them and Cherry sent me the dwgs for their what seems to be Small, Medium, Large. Here's the small. I'm having a hard time deciding what frame as the ETT isnt what i'm used to when i decided on my road bike


Quite difficult to compare an MTB to a road size though due to the different setup of each bike.
For example my Moots road bike is a 58cm (22.83") ETT.
My MTB's are both 625mm (25") ETT's.

But due to the shape of road vs MTB bars, the overall saddle to bar distance is very similar.


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

foofighter29er said:


> i fell in love w/ this frame at first sight so i emailed them and Cherry sent me the dwgs for their what seems to be Small, Medium, Large. Here's the small. I'm having a hard time deciding what frame as the ETT isnt what i'm used to when i decided on my road bike


cool, could you post the large dwg?


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

I also contacted Cherry and she sent me this following email:

Hi dear Paul,
Thanks for your mail.
I attached some pictures and geometry,pls check.
We have stock for MTB750-18"-12K-V+D-gloss .
Price:USD400/ set for sample,USD330/ set when quantity more than 10 sets.
Orange painting without logo will cost USD50 per set.
Shipping fee is USD81 by EMS.banking fee is USD30.
So the total is at least USD491 if i offer the bulk price.
Is it OK?
Cherry

For a nice painted carbon frame that is under 3 lbs! That is a heck of a deal and a darn nice looking XC rig also. I have yet to hear if anyone has gotten this particular frame. I know many have purchased the other one but I like the look of the sloping top tube. Not a huge fan of the 12k finish so I asked for orange paint. Yeah I know I just like orange. $50 for a paint job is amazing so I wonder what the quality is like? I think I could talk the price down a bit and get rid of the banking fee. I am guessing the time for delivery will be long but worth it.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I would also try to lose the banking fee, that's a first for me, never heard of that before.


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## foofighter275 (Jul 18, 2007)

Evan55 said:


> cool, could you post the large dwg?


i tried to but the pdf file is 400+ k and it's too big for the attachment utility on this site so i did a prtscrn

If it's still not legible PM me and i'll fwd you the email.


From Pholocity Gruppetto


From Pholocity Gruppetto


----------



## spookyload (Mar 30, 2004)

I am looking at this too. Damn nice frame. Where did you get frame paint choices?


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

I just said I wanted Orange. If I do actually order one from them hopefully soon, I will send them a pic of the color I want and see if they can paint it. I was also trying to think of a funny name to have put on it. I think they can copy most anything you send them. I will get more info soon


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

foofighter29er said:


> i tried to but the pdf file is 400+ k and it's too big for the attachment utility on this site so i did a prtscrn


great, thanks!


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

it looks like the ETT length on that frame are more typical than the others. 615mm = 24.2" for a 19" is just about right.

so if you're like me and have held off on the other frames due to their short top tubes it looks like this is the one to get!
edit: crap its the 29er, I wish they had a 26er with the same ett


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

My frame arrived today! It's an 18" and the actual TT length is 560mm. A little on the short side. My other bikes are around 575mm. So, I'll have to go with a longer stem and a setback post.


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## pesouza (Nov 11, 2010)

My No Brand frame/bike from ebay. 18" with 575 tt lenght.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'd go with someone who has better feedback.


You've got to be kidding. 98%+ positive w/ +13,000 feedback is not bad. If you read the feedback details for neut's / neg's, they probably are nitpicky anyway with a few accidental neut's / neg's too. You must look at more than just percent rating.

Regardless, both sellers are mentioned highly in the RBR ebay carbon frame threads and would probably treat you right. I just bought a FM015 from dengfu and have been very pleased. They sell mtb too: http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> You've got to be kidding. 98%+ positive w/ +13,000 feedback is not bad. If you read the feedback details for neut's / neg's, they probably are nitpicky anyway with a few accidental neut's / neg's too. You must look at more than just percent rating.
> 
> Regardless, both sellers are mentioned highly in the RBR ebay carbon frame threads and would probably treat you right. I just bought a FM015 from dengfu and have been very pleased. They sell mtb too: http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/


I'm not kidding. Iv'e bought a lot of stuff on Ebay and haven't had any problems. Because I have set some rules for myself and I follow them.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'm not kidding. Iv'e bought a lot of stuff on Ebay and haven't had any problems. Because I have set some rules for myself and I follow them.


Sorry, you are wrong in this case.
Go have a look on Road Bike Review and you will find that Dengfu is probably the most recommended seller of Chinese Carbon frames.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

TR said:


> Sorry, you are wrong in this case.
> Go have a look on Road Bike Review and you will find that Dengfu is probably the most recommended seller of Chinese Carbon frames.


How can I possible be wrong when #1 I have been able to find and buy whatever I need on Ebay. #2 I have paid way cheeper by buying on Ebay then anywhere else. And #3, out of everything I have purchased on Ebay, I have had no bad experiences. Oh, and #4, I have screwed my state out of a lot of tax revenue. I would say, yep, I'm right. You buy your way and I'll buy my way. Now what could I possibly gain by lowering my standards? Now lets get back on topic Eboy!


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How can I possible be wrong when #1 I have been able to find and buy whatever I need on Ebay. #2 I have paid way cheeper by buying on Ebay then anywhere else. And #3, out of everything I have purchased on Ebay, I have had no bad experiences. Oh, and #4, I have screwed my state out of a lot of tax revenue. I would say, yep, I'm right. You buy your way and I'll buy my way. Now what could I possibly gain by lowering my standards? Now lets get back on topic Eboy!


You are wrong in indicating that they are a bad seller to consider.
I never said that you have not achieved everything else you are saying.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

TR said:


> You are wrong in indicating that they are a bad seller to consider.
> I never said that you have not achieved everything else you are saying.


I guess your reading comprehension isn't very good. If you go back, you will read that I said, "I'd go with someone who has better feedback. Even if you have to pay a little more." I never said that anyone was a bad seller. End of discussion! Now go to bed, it's past your bed time.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I guess your reading comprehension isn't very good. If you go back, you will read that I said, "I'd go with someone who has better feedback. Even if you have to pay a little more." I never said that anyone was a bad seller. End of discussion! Now go to bed, it's past your bed time.


Shawn
It is 3.30pm where I am.
What you said is wrong and I am not the first person to call you out on it. 
Saying to look elsewhere than someone who has 18000+ sales and a 98% positive feedback makes no sense at all but then again I have come to expect non-sensical posts from you.
I am done with the argument.
Thanks for playing.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Like I said, it's past your bed time. Here's 25 cents: Call someone who cares!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> It uses a zerostack headset. It came with a cheap NECO headset, I did not use it because it didn't properly shield the bearings. I used a Cane Creek ZS-2.


Will a Cane Creek ZS-3 headset fit? I can't seem to find a ZS-2.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

FYI: Most ebay sellers tack on $50-100 to cover ebay / paypal fees. If you contact them through ebay asking for their best price, some will sell direct thus saving you money.

Some sellers use several ebay accounts and also have websites:

carbonzone = http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/
anybaby8088 = http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/
bicycle_999 = http://www.flyxii.com/

If the geometry isn't clearly listed, better sellers have detailed .pdf geometry files available if you ask.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

It's very impressive for an ebay seller living half-way around the world and contending with a language barrier to have a 98%+ rating!

google search "site:roadbikereview.com bicycle_999"

Shaun, here is a ZS-3 for a good price


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How can I possible be wrong when #1 I have been able to find and buy whatever I need on Ebay. #2 I have paid way cheeper by buying on Ebay then anywhere else. And #3, out of everything I have purchased on Ebay, I have had no bad experiences. Oh, and #4, I have screwed my state out of a lot of tax revenue. I would say, yep, I'm right. You buy your way and I'll buy my way. Now what could I possibly gain by lowering my standards? Now lets get back on topic Eboy!


Ditto! I do exactly the same.:thumbsup:

Do not buy Chinese Felt or Bianchi or you risk getting a lot of hating from some losers in the forums.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> It's very impressive for an ebay seller living half-way around the world and contending with a language barrier to have a 98%+ rating!
> 
> google search "site:roadbikereview.com bicycle_999"
> 
> Shaun, here is a ZS-3 for a good price


That is a great price, thanks!


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## fifteen.hundred (Aug 21, 2009)

Well, my first post and my first ground up build too.

I've been following this thread for a few weeks now. Having seen some of the painted up frames in previous posts, i kind of wish i had gotten my hands on one of those instead of my naked carbon frame.

At the moment i've set up this bike as a commuter, taking advantage of the warmer weather here in Australia. When i stop riding to work i'll swap over the tyres and put on a set of 100mm forks and possibly use it in the odd race here or there.

So far, the bike has been running well, rather surprised at the quality of the frame, especially for $260 through an Aus Ebay seller.

Only real regret i have is with the Deore brakeset. i kind of wish i had gone for something a little nicer but hey, they work and they helped keep the overall cost of the project very reasonable.


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## pamik (Sep 19, 2007)

waltermitty said:


> I'm gonna get this one Hongfu HF-FM016 19" in 3K clearcoat from carbonzone on ebay. I wanted something without brake bosses on the chain stay and also preferred 3K. I'm gonna strip another bike for components because I'm short of cash and the wife would kill me if I blew a bunch of money. All I need is headset and seatpost. The frame diagram indicates there is a little ridge inside the headtube like maybe it was designed specifically for the FSA headset. What headsets will work?


I've built up a bike on the same frame with the only exception that mine has integrated seatpost (picture is attached).

The frame looks nice, and rides fast


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

fifteen.hundred: What size is the frame?

Pamik: Are you concerned at all with the strength / durability of the seatstays? They looked thin when I saw them on ebay but they actually look thicker / more durable in your photo. What size is your frame?

NICE builds!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Both of the above bikes are really nice! Can we get more pics of the integrated seat tube bike??


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## fifteen.hundred (Aug 21, 2009)

vitiate said:


> fifteen.hundred: What size is the frame?


Its a 20.5" frame. To be honest though it does feel a little more compact. I'm 6'1 and it fits me fine. Glad i didn't go a smaller size.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*Nice build 1,500*

I'm guessing that's from cycling deal in melbourne? I've been watching their auctions, as you say the price is right.

In their description they say the cable guides don't come with the frame, did you have to fit your own? ANy chance you weighed the frame when it was bare?

cheers
d


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## fifteen.hundred (Aug 21, 2009)

D said:


> I'm guessing that's from cycling deal in melbourne? I've been watching their auctions, as you say the price is right.
> 
> In their description they say the cable guides don't come with the frame, did you have to fit your own? ANy chance you weighed the frame when it was bare?
> 
> ...


Yeah, the frame was from cycling deal. I figured for the price I couldn't go wrong. The frame I got had all the cable guides attached. All I had to do was zip tie the actual cables to the guides. No problems at all. I do remember reading that very same statement about the guides also. After receiving the frame I figured it was a typo.

I weighed the frame bare when I got it home. Cycling deal claim a weight of 1100 grams. I'm guessing that was for a small frame as my frame weighed 1350 grams. Remember though I've got what be the equivalent of an L or XL frame. Not super light but still respectable.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*Thanks for the info*

Good news on the cable mounts. Given I'm 6"1 as well it looks like I might be forced to get one of these frames, I'd been convincing myself that I didn't really need one but....

Realistically that weight's pretty good for the coin you've paid. It's about the same as a XTC Composite from a couple of years ago and 200g lighter than my XTC alloy which is certainly not a porker.


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## fifteen.hundred (Aug 21, 2009)

Discodan said:


> Good news on the cable mounts. Given I'm 6"1 as well it looks like I might be forced to get one of these frames, I'd been convincing myself that I didn't really need one but....
> 
> Realistically that weight's pretty good for the coin you've paid. It's about the same as a XTC Composite from a couple of years ago and 200g lighter than my XTC alloy which is certainly not a porker.


Yeah, i didn't need one either. I had a hard enough time justifying the $$$ i threw at my other bike, let alone building up this one.

You're spot on about the weight/price argument too. Thats the way i looked at it. I didn't really believe the hype on ebay when it said 1100 grams, i kind of figured it would be a little heavier. The naked carbon does have a nice bling factor though.

The only issue i have come across with the frame is the clearance for the rear tyre. I tried to mount my 2.25 nobby nics on the other week for a crits race to see how it handled (with the rigid forks too) and found them too wide, they rubbed on the chainstays.

2.1 tyres are probably the widest you can go, not that that's a huge drama anyhow...


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Glad to hear that so many of you guys have had success with these frames. I am in the process of exploring this option. I however and planning to use it as a replacement for my super heavy GT Peace chromoloy frame. I am looking to have this thing set up as a rigid SS bike with a goal of getting it down to about 15 lbs in the end. For now, it will simply be to replace the current frame. Hopefully by spring I will be rolling on one of these.

My only concern as many have already mentioned is tire clearance. Currently I am running Race Kings which have a width of about 2.2 but a height of 2.4. So not sure if this will work. I guess I could always swap out to my Maxis 2.1 ignitor on the back but I then lose a little rim protection which on a rigid is fairly important. hmmmmmm

Love the look of the integrated seatpost version. I was looking at this one last week. My only concern there is cracking the post at the frame joint. If that happens, well, you are pretty much screwed. The weight savings is not that significant either when compared to a light post option so ?????


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

1SPD said:


> My only concern as many have already mentioned is tire clearance. Currently I am running Race Kings which have a width of about 2.2 but a height of 2.4. So not sure if this will work. I guess I could always swap out to my Maxis 2.1 ignitor on the back but I then lose a little rim protection which on a rigid is fairly important. hmmmmmm
> weight savings is not that significant either when compared to a light post option so ?????


I love the race kings (SS version only though). I've got a set of RK on a different wheelset so I'll swap them and let you know how the clearance is. I remember wondering that myself and thinking that there wouldn't be enough clearance.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Harry_Dog said:


> Here is my Ebay Carbon single speed. Really have enjoyed it for the past couple rides. SS is a new challenge for me. I need to push myself to get to the next fitness level and this bike will help me get there.
> 
> I happen to like the all black stealth look. Maybe I will take all the stickers off (fork and wheels). If I can I'd like to black out the tire graphics as well. No one knows what type of bike it is. Doesn't matter anyway never had time stop and socialize on the trial. Too busy riding. Oh well to each his/her own.


Awesome! This is exactly what I plan on doing over the winter. I am going to run a Forward Concepts EBB however. That will eliminate the tensioner in the rear and really keep things looking like a clean SS. Actually, it just dawned on me that I have White Industries hubs that I can convert to eccentric for like $100. The only question there is having to run a bracket for the disc brakes and not sure if there is any sort of clearnce issue back there with this frame.

Man, now I am stoked and need to go count my pennies again! I'm hating the fact that I have got myself hooked on getting a new frame right before Christmas as my wife/kids have sucked up all the money I had!


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

civil said:


> I love the race kings (SS version only though). I've got a set of RK on a different wheelset so I'll swap them and let you know how the clearance is. I remember wondering that myself and thinking that there wouldn't be enough clearance.


Please do! Thanks in advance. I too have the SS versions and love them. I am currently running my old 2.35 Navagal on the front due to trail conditions but will be back on the SS/RK's when things dry back out in the summer!


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## pamik (Sep 19, 2007)

vitiate said:


> Pamik: Are you concerned at all with the strength / durability of the seatstays? They looked thin when I saw them on ebay but they actually look thicker / more durable in your photo. What size is your frame?


The seatstays are not round, so they look thicker if you look at them from side.

Honestly, I don't worry about them, because:
a) thicker seatstays are required if V-brakes are used, but this frame doesn't have V-brake bosses. I think, for disc brakes these chainstays are just fine. I like the minimalistic look;
b) theoretically, thin seatstays provide more comfortable ride, flexing under load;
c) even if the strength/durability of the seatstays is compromised, the frame has really thick chainstays which are probably designed to keep overall rear triangle strength at a good level.

Time will tell 

The size is 19". I attach the geometry drawing received from a seller - it might be interesting. 
BTW, chainstay&seatstay exact sizes and cross-section shape is also pictured.


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## pamik (Sep 19, 2007)

1SPD said:


> Love the look of the integrated seatpost version. I was looking at this one last week. My only concern there is cracking the post at the frame joint. If that happens, well, you are pretty much screwed. The weight savings is not that significant either when compared to a light post option so ?????


You're right, weight savings are not significant.
- frame: 1427g (uncut ISP, with derailleur hanger)
- ISP topper: 168g :eekster: (to be replaced by lighter model later)

So, the frame with seatpost are 1584g together.
Definitely not ultralite, but good for the money. And cheaper than a frame+light seatpost+clamp bought separately.

*Regarding the ISP reliability*
recently I've found a couple of almost invisible horizontal scratches on the lacquer at the seatpost about 2 inches above frame joint, which appeared to be a tiny cracks in the lacquer. I hope it is only lacquer cracked, but not the carbon fiber underneath. Now I'm watching them - they are not growing.

So, if you're concerned about the ISP strength - go for classic version. Less "surprises"


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

pamik, THANKS! that's just the info I was looking for! I recently built up a dengfu FM015 road bike with similar seatstays and I've found them to be plenty strong so far. Great feedback, thanks.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> My frame arrived today! It's an 18" and the actual TT length is 560mm. A little on the short side. My other bikes are around 575mm. So, I'll have to go with a longer stem and a setback post.


Right now I am waiting for some parts to arrive so I can build this. My Trigon carbon fork arrived a couple days ago. What's intesting is, it came with a headset expander device. It's different then your standard Hope, Azonic or Trigon expander. But I orderd a standard type from Trigon, so I'll probably use the one I ordered. I also have a Trigon riser bar/stem combo on the way.

I want to use something to protect the chain stay and the bottom of the downtube. I don't want some bulky chainstay protector or worse, electrical tape. I am thinking something like clear vinyl. Any ideas?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Right now I am waiting for some parts to arrive so I can build this. My Trigon carbon fork arrived a couple days ago. What's intesting is, it came with a headset expander device. It's different then your standard Hope, Azonic or Trigon expander. But I orderd a standard type from Trigon, so I'll probably use the one I ordered. I also have a Trigon riser bar/stem combo on the way. Use the one that came with the fork , they included it for a reason .
> 
> I want to use something to protect the chain stay and the bottom of the downtube. I don't want some bulky chainstay protector or worse, electrical tape. I am thinking something like clear vinyl. Any ideas?


 Helicopter tape .

Good luck .


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Helicopter tape .
> 
> Good luck .


Iv'e heard of that stuff. What is it and where can I get it?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Iv'e heard of that stuff. What is it and where can I get it?


I know, Google is my friend!


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

fifteen.hundred said:


> Well, my first post and my first ground up build too.


Fifteen, nice build. I like the red contrast with the black.

Tim


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks for posting Pamik. I got an email back from Mina this morning (sent them a message yesterday). She sent over the specs/geometry if you will but no pricing. She stated taht the non isp version is disc only so I am really leaning in that direction at this point. Especially since I don't want to deal with having to mod the frame down the road should it crack as you mentioned. (by modding I mean, hacking off the upper section, putting a small slice in the frame and then running a standard post/clamp) I sent her back another message asking a few more questions as well as what it might cost to get a paint job similar to a Niner AC (white/black). I suspect I won't hear anything back until tomorrow. Honestly that is fine as I still gotta come up with the funding. I have already listed a few parts on ebay and may consider tearing apart my GT Peace and posting the frame up for sale as well. Not sure if I am going to stick with my current fork or order a Trigon carbon one (currently I have a Rock Solid) but the look of the Trigon just seems to flow so much nicer than the Rock Solid will on this new frame.????? I'm sure I could sell my current fork as well and make back what I would be putting out for the other fork but not sure if I want to do that or not. I know my current fork is pretty good and fairly light (and it is all black!) but the Trigon is about a half pound lighter! May end up selling my fork as well now that I look at the numbers!


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## skewe (Sep 30, 2010)

+1 Helicopter tape

I have it on my Cannondale and i can't be happier

Check on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26x%3D12%26ref_%3Dnb_sb_noss%26y%3D23%26field-keywords%3DISC%2520Surface%2520Guard%2520Tape%2520%26url%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps&tag=ericswebsit07-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=390957


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Great product. I used this on my Serotta HSG carbon road bike frame. Well worth the money and you can get the smaller roll since you won't need that much of it.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

How easy is the helicopter tape to take off?


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I had to pull some off my headlights once and I just used a heat gun to heat it up and get the glue soft. I pretty much peeled right off after that and then I used GueGone to clean it all up. I think it is pretty tuff to just peel off without heating it up a little bit though.


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## beagledadi (Jul 18, 2004)

Watch the video at the bottom, pretty incredible stuff............now if they could make a frame made out of it :thumbsup:

http://www.gramslightbikes.com/2010/11/shelter-impact-absorption-tape.html

Matt


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## skewe (Sep 30, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How easy is the helicopter tape to take off?


Here is what i suggest.
Wash your bicycle, wax it with a car wax.

When I applied my tape, I found that some of the tape was not straight, i removed it without any problems.

Waxing the bike and cleaning up the wax before putting on any sticker - tape is a good rule of thumb. It will adhere better to the bike too.

So yes, it is easy to take off if you do it right.



1SPD said:


> ...you can get the smaller roll since you won't need that much of it.


I put it on a few places. 
-Chain stay
-Downtube (I get rocks flying off the front tires and chipping the downtube)
-Top of the fork. The break cables were rubbing the color off the fork
-some back areas where the cables touches the bike frame

I bought the ISC helicopter tape model on amazon and I can't be happier. :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

So, here is what I got so far. I still need to install the drivetrain. I'm waiting for a Paul BB chain keeper. I need to attach the rear derailer hosing and cable and adjust it. I need to shorten the brake lines. I need to order a front brake adapter so I can run a 160 rotor. I'm waiting for a Trigon riser bar/stem combo. And I am going to replace the post with a carbon setback post, the seat with a Tioga Spyder seat in white and the wheels with a set of Spinergy Enduros in white. Then when I'm all done I'm going to have some white graphics made.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, here is what I got so far. I still need to install the drivetrain. I'm waiting for a Paul BB chain keeper. I need to attach the rear derailer hosing and cable and adjust it. I need to shorten the brake lines. I need to order a front brake adapter so I can run a 160 rotor. I'm waiting for a Trigon riser bar/stem combo. And I am going to replace the post with a carbon setback post, the seat with a Tioga Spyder seat in white and the wheels with a set of Spinergy Enduros in white. Then when I'm all done I'm going to have some white graphics made.


I like it a lot!:thumbsup: Very clean and appealing built. I see you you installed Hayes Stroker Ryde... I came the the conclusion these are the best brakes. I own Elixir R/CR, Hayes Stroker Trail, Shimano XT and SLX.. and nothing beats a set of Hayes stroker Ryde for $130.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> I like it a lot!:thumbsup: Very clean and appealing built. I see you you installed Hayes Stroker Ryde... I came the the conclusion these are the best brakes. I own Elixir R/CR, Hayes Stroker Trail, Shimano XT and SLX.. and nothing beats a set of Hayes stroker Ryde for $130.


Thanks! Mine are Stroker Trails, they have the adjustable lever reach, which I really like. Today I am going to put a 140mm rotor on the back and switch some adapters around and see if I come up with a 160mm one for the front. Drivetrain goes on next weekend.


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## foofighter275 (Jul 18, 2007)

just FYI the 29er frame, I got an email update from Cherry @ gotobike.com in UD finish will be available at the beginning of January so if you're interested 100 units will be available. So tempted


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

I am interested in picking up one of these frames, and glad to see so much good info on them!

I was hoping I might be able to have a few questions answered. First, I have a Fox F120 left over from my Stumpjumper that I was hoping to put on this frame. I have read that the frame is optimized for 80-100mm, and was wondering if anyone has used a 120mm fork, and if so, how has it worked out for you?

Also, I am hoping to move, at least temporarily, may of the parts over from my 2005 Fisher Tassajara. I have upgraded the shifters (X7), rear derailleur (X7), and brakes (BB7s) but otherwise, everything is stock. Wondering, which of the remaining stock parts you would recommend upgrading from the outset, and which budget-conscious upgrades you would recommend? 

Planning to run it as a 2X9 with a bashguard and primary use will be local doubletrack, easy singletrack, fireroads and for pulling my kiddo in a trailer....


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## istrabike (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi all,

There are also full sus frames for around 600$ with some aparantly no name rear shock.

Has anyone build one of these?

How do they ride? lot of pedal bob? 

Are they worth the money?

I can't find any review of this frames, surely someone has it...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

*It's done!*

Well, almost done I have a Trigon riser bar/stem combo and an Exotic seatpost on the way. But other then those upgrades, it's done. It was really windy here today, so I didn't get a chance to ride it much, just up and down the street a little. It does steer quick, but by the 4th turn, I was used to it. I used some 3M clear vinyl for the chainstay and cable rub protectors.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Well, almost done I have a Trigon riser bar/stem combo and an Exotic seatpost on the way. But other then those upgrades, it's done. It was really windy here today, so I didn't get a chance to ride it much, just up and down the street a little. It does steer quick, but by the 4th turn, I was used to it. I used some 3M clear vinyl for the chainstay and cable rub protectors.


Nice build. What rear tire were you using in the above picture that you posted the first time. I'm trying to see how wide of a tire I would be able to run.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Has anyone picked up the carbon frames that were being talked about on the Spain forum? I like the looks of them and I'm thinking about picking one of them up.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Rod said:


> Nice build. What rear tire were you using in the above picture that you posted the first time. I'm trying to see how wide of a tire I would be able to run.


WTB Mutano Rapter Race 2.4. They are 55mm wide. I don't know why they call them a 2.4.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> WTB Mutano Rapter Race 2.4. They are 55mm wide. I don't know why they call them a 2.4.


How do they compare to the nevegale 2.1? i'm familiar with that tire, but not the mutano 2.4. Thanks for the fast response.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Rod said:


> How do they compare to the nevegale 2.1? i'm familiar with that tire, but not the mutano 2.4. Thanks for the fast response.


Don't know.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

istrabike said:


> There are also full sus frames for around 600$ with some aparantly no name rear shock.


I've seen those frames.

The shock is a KS A-Two 165x43. I know nothing about it other than what the catalogue says, adjustable rebound and air sprung. KS seatposts have a reasonable reputation, it can't be _that_ bad.


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## arrover (Mar 28, 2010)

Any word on the 29er frames? I think someone posted that they should be available soon.


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## orion_134 (Sep 2, 2010)

There's a guy in FL that has one. He loves it and is changing it from a rigid SS to a monstercross setup.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*One other question*



fifteen.hundred said:


> Yeah, the frame was from cycling deal. I figured for the price I couldn't go wrong. The frame I got had all the cable guides attached. All I had to do was zip tie the actual cables to the guides. No problems at all. I do remember reading that very same statement about the guides also. After receiving the frame I figured it was a typo.


I've picked up one of the same frame, crazy cheap at $230 including freight, but I can't take delivery for a week or two. Can you clarify what (if any) headset bearings it comes with or needs? The description implies they are included but I see you've put your own on so I'm confused. If I need to get new bearings I'd like to get them ordered in the meantime

I'll be building this into a light and simple 1 x 9 XC racer by lifting all the parts from my XTC, it sounds like it will be pretty simple

thanks in advance, danny


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

Discodan said:


> I've picked up one of the same frame, crazy cheap at $230 including freight


nice! for that price id jump on one in an instant.
where did you get the frame for that cheap?


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

Anyone have any links to buy those bikes noted on the Spain-forum? (that will sell to USA) ?

-omesh



Zehd said:


> It's not a Stumpy. It looks like these two "European bikes". The 17" frame weights just under 1200g! There're a lot of people buying these frames in Spain and they seem to love it... have a look at: https://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?t=595377


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

try gotobike.com.cn and look for the mtb750. It is basically the same frame.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

pmarshall said:


> try gotobike.com.cn and look for the mtb750. It is basically the same frame.


Contact them through the site pmarshall listed. I've traded some emails with them; they will ship to US, and price is for mtb750 is 400+shipping (probably in the range of 60-80). They recently sent me an email that the disk only version is back in stock.

I do like that frame, but I'm leaning toward fm016 from dengfu.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Slightly tangental this, but relevant.

I just got an On-One Whippet 20in from Planet X/On-One's Ebay account for £240, about £50 less than getting one of the Hong Fu frames shipped to the UK. Cosmetic damage (some scratches in the clear coat) but frankly I don't care!

On One put seconds, pre-prod frames and their second hand stuff up fairly regularly. If you watch it you can get a bargain.

A bit tangental, but it's carbon and it came from Ebay! Pics when built.


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## gofastman (Dec 29, 2010)

Have been reading the threads on this topic and I must say I am happy to see so many considering or already bought and so many comments on the Ebay Carbon frame. I bought mine about 2 months ago and still building it. I was apprehensive at first. Looked at many sites including Hasa Bikes. Their prices are fantastic and I was tempted but more tempted to build my own and then use parts from my existing mtb (cheaper). I have so far bought the following:

1 x Brand-New-Full-Carbon-12K-Weave-Mountain-Bike-Frame-18"
1 x Full-Carbon-3K-MTB-Road-Bike-seatpost-31-6mm-x-400mm
1 x Two-New-Full-Carbon-3K-MTB-Road-Bike-Water-Bottle-Cage
1 x Full-Carbon-3K-MTB-Road-Bike-stem-31-8mm-x-100mm-153g
1 x Brand-New-Full-Carbon-3K-Mountain-Bike-handlebar-620mm
1 x Full-Carbon-1-1-8-Headset-Spacers-3-5-10-15-20mm
1 x Pair-Brand-New-Mountain-Bike-Rear-Derailleur-hangers
1 x Mountain-Bike-CARBON-HandleBar-End-MTB-Bar-Ends-100g (1 pair)
1 x Pair Shimano XT V Brakes 

All up $500AUS delivered.

The quality is just awesome!

On my shopping list, either Cane Creek ZS-3 zero stack headset or one from the Ebay frame seller. Anyone, with any recommendation?

Front Derailleur but don't know what sort (High or Low). I couldn't get an idea from people's comments what they have actually chosen their carbon frame. All I know is I want Shimano XT.

Everything else will come from my existing bike, a Learsport 3270 Aluminium, which has served me well but realising the frame is way to big. Pretty much 24 speed Shimano Deore. If budget wasn't so much of an issue I'd get everythig new but will do it stage by stage in future.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

gofastman said:


> On my shopping list, either Cane Creek ZS-3 zero stack headset or one from the Ebay frame seller.


ZS-3 is excellent, I've got two and they seem to last forever.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Sweet looking bike. I'm going to post mine now.


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## gofastman (Dec 29, 2010)

Fix the Spade said:


> ZS-3 is excellent, I've got two and they seem to last forever.


Hey thanks Fix the Spade. Will order one.
Do you have any idea what I should get as far as the derailleur, high or low clamp?

Thanks mate!


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## yzfrider (Nov 5, 2010)

Would love to hear from someone when they do a 29er build. I am starting to plan one. Most likely gonna do a 1 x 9 w/ 100mm, but love the simplicy of no suspension, no shifting.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

gofastman said:


> Do you have any idea what I should get as far as the derailleur, high or low clamp?


Nope, no idea at all. But, for a front mech the XT-771 'conventional' fits most frames, it'll work with under bb or top/down seat tube cables as well, so that doesn't matter.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

yzfrider said:


> Would love to hear from someone when they do a 29er build. I am starting to plan one. Most likely gonna do a 1 x 9 w/ 100mm, but love the simplicy of no suspension, no shifting.


Afters building my Chinese carbon bikes I decided to build two 29ers. I grabbed two, brand new Scott Scale 29 frames (M and L) for a total of $1000 on ebay.:thumbsup:


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## orion_134 (Sep 2, 2010)

That mtb753-17.5 29er looks to be almost identical measurements to my 2010 17" Rockhopper Comp 29er. I smell a wicked light SS in my near future...


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## gofastman (Dec 29, 2010)

Fix the Spade said:


> Nope, no idea at all. But, for a front mech the XT-771 'conventional' fits most frames, it'll work with under bb or top/down seat tube cables as well, so that doesn't matter.


Thank! Will troll ebay and see if I can find a best priced one.


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

I just got an email from gotobike to let me know they're back in stock on the MTB750 on the 16, 18, and 20" frames.

extract from the email:

_We just get new stocking of MTB750 in 16'', so for now we have MTB750 in all sizes including 16''/18''/20'' in 3K, disc brake only.
USD400/pc for sample, USD330/pc when more than 10 pcs.
If you need any pls keep me informed._

cheers,
-Omesh


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## orion_134 (Sep 2, 2010)

I thought they were a 17 or 17.5" frame...


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## omesh (Aug 13, 2009)

orion_134 said:


> I thought they were a 17 or 17.5" frame...


Just forwarding what I got, pal!


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## mipi (Jan 27, 2010)

Anybody bought or seen this design before;
From anything I have searched, it is only in small size 16" available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-16-Full-Ca...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6505800305912959574


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## 6thElement (Jul 17, 2006)

Looks like the new on-one carbon frame.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*My 1 x9*

Here's the fruit of my labour. It was actually a very cheap and easy build, taking about 3 hrs to swing all the parts from my XTC onto the new frame. It's shaved a few hundred grams off the original setup and having done one XC race it seems very nice to ride. It's a great lightweight XC racer and the 1 x 9 setup makes it a great climber.

The only issue I had was a bent RD hanger on the first shakedown run but the supplier sent me a replacement the next day, I'm not sure if it was a result of a rock or if there was an issue with it. Ignore the location of the front chain guard, that was tweaked after the photo to get it working properly

It's come in at 10.2 kg with UST tyres so I think they're next to receive the weight loss treatment. I've created a monster and am now weighing bottle cages and chasing carbon everythings.


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## pmarshall (Nov 4, 2007)

Which frame did you with? I mean which company. Looks awesome


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

I got the frame through Cycling Deal in Melbourne so they may not be practical out of Australia. The service has been great and I had it in 3 days.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/CyclingDeal

I think they are no longer are selling the specific frame I bought. 
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160519332790&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I stalked it for 3 months, he'd post a new one every two days and the prices were slowly dropping over time. I got mine for $200 (including steering race) so I suspect it got to the stage where they just weren't making any money on them any more (the cheapest I saw one go for was $153).


----------



## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

I was thinking of upgrading my current bike, but then though i might build one and then have a spare so I can get others to go out and get them into the sport. 

So, I have noticed that some are for integrated headsets and some are for semi-integrated.... Is one better than the other, or is one more standard?

Thanks, Jason


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

exodus1500 said:


> So, I have noticed that some are for integrated headsets and some are for semi-integrated.... Is one better than the other, or is one more standard?


Integrated: Also called 45degree Campagnolo (Campy) or BMX type. The head tube is pre machined and you just drop the bearings straight in. Tend to be cheaper as there are no cups, just crown race, bearings and top cap.
Much easier to fit but the payback is that you are dependant on the head tube being properly machined, also, some are poorly sealed and don't last long, FSA and Cane Creek ones are fine though.

Semi Integrated: Also called internal, 44mm and Zero Stack (ZS). Works like a normal head set, the bearings sit in cups that you press into the frame. The difference is that the cups are lower and the bearings are hidden inside the head tube rather than sticking out the top. Harder to fit as you need a press, but not so reliant on the frame being absolutely perfectly machined, you can ream a 44ID head tube.

As for which is better, everyone's got an opinion, but you can't go wrong with a FSA or Cane Creek model of either.


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## Zehd (Dec 17, 2005)

Has anyone bought this frame already? I really, really liked the frame design and would love to know what you guys think. I was going to buy the mb750 but after i saw this i think i changed my mind. Apparentaly the frame is from DengFU and the product description in the website are as follow:

inside cable; big head tube;17/18/19/20.5 er; 2011 new MTB frame ; 

1,17" ,18",19",20.5" er include ISP and non-isp model;
1,the newest design;
2,inside cable route;
3,super stiffness;
4,tapered headtube:
1-1/8 to 1-1/2 integrated headset;
5,integrated molding process:
the top tube ,head tube and down tube and seat tube are produced in a single step using a top-secret process
6, HM composite carbon fiber;
7,fast shipping day;
8,professional painting and produce;,
9,best service;
10,two year quality warranty;
11,All parts passed EN test;


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## Evan55 (Jul 23, 2009)

I like it. Ive been waiting for one with a tapered head tube. Any idea what the geo is?


----------



## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Anyone seen a carbon frame from any of these ebay's sellers/companies that has an ETT of LESS THEN 540mm?

I'm searching to them and haven't found one yet. FS would be nice, but hardtail if I have no choice. This is mainly for my wife.

She sat on the Myka FSR Comp Small and the reach was ok, but could be better if it was shorter. I don't know what the stem size that come standard on that bike, but the ETT for that bike is 542mm.

Top Tube Length (Horizontal) 542mm
Top Tube Length (Actual) 509mm 

What I want to do is get a frame that has a ETT of about 530mm and if necessary still, swap in a shorter stem.

Thanks!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Zehd said:


> Has anyone bought this frame already? I really, really liked the frame design and would love to know what you guys think. I was going to buy the mb750 but after i saw this i think i changed my mind. Apparentaly the frame is from DengFU and the product description in the website are as follow:
> 
> inside cable; big head tube;17/18/19/20.5 er; 2011 new MTB frame ;
> 
> ...


That looks just like a Scott frame I saw at the Bike Shack yesterday.


----------



## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Zehd said:


> Has anyone bought this frame already? I really, really liked the frame design and would love to know what you guys think. I was going to buy the mb750 but after i saw this i think i changed my mind. Apparentaly the frame is from DengFU and the product description in the website are as follow:
> 
> inside cable; big head tube;17/18/19/20.5 er; 2011 new MTB frame ;
> 
> ...


What's with the rear brake mounts on that frame? They look strangely positioned - i.e. on the chain stay vs compared the seat stay? I don't think I've ever seen that before...


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## Zehd (Dec 17, 2005)

Isildur said:


> What's with the rear brake mounts on that frame? They look strangely positioned - i.e. on the chain stay vs compared the seat stay? I don't think I've ever seen that before...


The new Scott Scale has similar rear brake mount design. And like MCS just said, the frame is similar too.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

*Ebay Whippet.*

Arrived and finished, Frame, forks, wheels, post, cables and some jockey wheels off ebay.








Frame from On One's Ebay account, came with BB, vertical dropouts, horizontal dropouts and seat clamp. Paid £240 posted, about £50 less than getting a Chinese 3k frame from Ebay, had some scratches in the clear coat and no paint, nothing five minutes and some clear nail polish couldn't fix.
















Built up,with a cheap drive train (SLX/Deore), wide bars and xtr wheels.
Not a chinese Ebay frame, but I think this is worth adding as you can get a serious bargain from On One if you watch their Ebay for seconds/shop soiled frames.

It's carbon, it came from ebay and it's friggen fast!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Fix the Spade said:


> *Ebay Whippet.*
> 
> Arrived and finished, Frame, forks, wheels, post, cables and some jockey wheels off ebay.
> 
> ...


Where was it made?


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Taiwan...


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

I had the idea of doing this and was greatful to find a thread with all the information I need. I'm very new to MTBing but quickly catching the fever. I will be getting one of these frames (same as LJ since we're about the same size 5.9" @32" inseam) My initial route will be to cannibalize my '08 cannondale f7 as much as possible and upgrade whatever doesn't fit. I guess I'm needing to replace fork, seat post, headset, and front derailer. I'll subscribe and update as I progress. Thanks for starting this.


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## Zehd (Dec 17, 2005)

Evan55 said:


> I like it. Ive been waiting for one with a tapered head tube. Any idea what the geo is?


FM038 Geo...


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## ICAsh (Sep 24, 2009)

Thinking about building up one of these as a single speed. Never built a bike up before so I'm not sure I know what I need. Comparing geometry with my other bikes, the top tube on all these bikes seem really short. I've got a small Anthem (556mm top tube) and a 17" Myka (575mm), so I was assuming a 16" or 17" frame would fit, but the top tube on the 17" is only 545mm. Having hard time believing I should order an 18-19" frame even though it has top tube closer to the bikes I know fit me (560mm). I know it's not the size but the geometry that matters, but in my head I belong on the small end. Are these frames really that small?

Looking at this one in particular since it doesn't have the rim brake mount: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-carbon...7251999?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item4aa8a95e9f 
The 19" of the same frame has a similar top tube as what I'm riding now (560mm). What's up with this?

Thanks!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

How tall are you and what is your inseam length? Size does matter. My 18" frame is a little short. But you can adjust with a stem and set back post to get a good fit, that's what I did. There is nothing more uncomfortable then a bike that is to short.


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## ICAsh (Sep 24, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How tall are you and what is your inseam length? Size does matter. My 18" frame is a little short. But you can adjust with a stem and set back post to get a good fit, that's what I did. There is nothing more uncomfortable then a bike that is to short.


I'm 5'5," shorter legged than most women proportionally. Don't know my inseam but all my bikes have about a 30" standover.


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

*Quick Shipping*

My carbon frame came arrived today and I was very pleased. It was a total of 10 days from when I hit "Confirm Purchase" to arriving at my door step. Packaging was satisfactory but could have been better. Fortunately the outer packaging was in good shape. This is an 18" 3K Carbon Fiber frame from e_baygoods (seller). The order included a headset and extra der. hangar at no additional cost (must request). I have all parts waiting and will start building when I get out of work. I'll include pics later since the pics I got are too big.

I was able to resize the pictures of the frame.


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

*Progress*

Here are some updates. Brake levers will be here on Monday but shouldn't change the set up much. I'll be hitting the trails when the weather gets up.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Nice! Did you weigh the frame? Can you measure the top tube or ETT for me?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> Nice! Did you weigh the frame? Can you measure the top tube or ETT for me?


Should be about 575mm.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn, how are you liking the frame after a few months?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ICAsh said:


> I'm 5'5," shorter legged than most women proportionally. Don't know my inseam but all my bikes have about a 30" standover.


I would go 18". Use a straight post and a short stem if needed.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> Mountain Cycle Shawn, how are you liking the frame after a few months?


I really like it a lot. I'm going to buy a Merek 30mm setback post, to give me a little more room. I'm about 5'9" and it just feels a little short for me. It is super smooth on the trails, I really like the Trigon fork. It handles like a race car, so you have to make sure you're paying attention all the time. But, it goes where you point it and it goes there like right now. If you run a suspension fork, it will slow the steering down a bit, which is probably good for most people. I am running 1x9 with 11-34 in the rear. I thought the biggest problem with that would be climbing power. But that is not the case. I can climb really steep hills with it. When I run out of power sitting it's really easy to stand and climb the rest of the way to the top. But, I run out of gear going down hills. And I like to always be pedaling at least a little, even if I'm going fast enough. I think it helps my balance to always be spinning. So, I think I'm going to go to, something like 38-22 in the front. It will give me more speed down hill and I won't have to stand to climb. I switched weelsets with one of my other bikes, so it's all black now, with a red seat, red grips and red pulleys and bolts here and there. Soon I'm going to get my graphics printed out in red. All in all, I'm very happy with it. In fact, I started riding it to my office, which I have never done before.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

I wish the top tube were a little longer. My Access XCL is an 18" too and has a 602mm ETT. Btw, I run 1x9 too and use a 35t front, so simple, I love it. Thanks for the info cause I keep thinking of a carbon hardtail :thumbsup:


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

vitiate said:


> Nice! Did you weigh the frame? Can you measure the top tube or ETT for me?


I didn't weigh the frame because I don't have a scale. I have one at work but then i'd be waiting 3 days before starting the build and I couldn't do that. I was too excited from buying myself something more than $20 that i had to start putting it together. I usually don't buy myself things (booze doesn't count). The TT is 575mm. The geometry was included with the order. Snow is melting today...roads should be clear enough for me to start riding to work tomorrow and temp is supposed to be up to 33F. :thumbsup:


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## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

here is the one i've been working on over the winter months gathering some parts here and there. but before i put it together i got the frame painted. Didn't have time to do it myself had friend spray it.Waiting on couple more parts should have it complete this week.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

apkona said:


> here is the one i've been working on over the winter months gathering some parts here and there. but before i put it together i got the frame painted. Didn't have time to do it myself had friend spray it.Waiting on couple more parts should have it complete this week.


Must be light as air!


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## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

lets try this


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## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

couple more


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## Blksocks (Dec 22, 2009)

What the **** happened to your frame? LOL


----------



## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

paint job...House of color marblelizer


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## Blksocks (Dec 22, 2009)

Looked as if it started peeling...


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## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

custom job,while the paint is still wet apply plastic wrap to the frame then pull wrap


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Anyone pick up a full suspension carbon frame yet from these ebay sellers? I would appreciate any feedback since I'm aiming for one of these vs buying a complete bike.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I would go 18". Use a straight post and a short stem if needed.


NOOOO !!! I'm also 5'5 female and ride an athem xw small (555mm ETT) and there's no way I'd buy and 18" frame. In fact I just bought a 16.5 " frame off ebay - one of these carbon ones and it has an ETT of 556mm.

Are you sure you're not getting mixed up between EET (effective top tube) and actual top tube measurements? The actual measurement will be less, the effective measurement is the horizontal and is a better indicator of actual reach length on the bike.

I just bought a 16.5" carbon ebay frame from e_baygoods too. Arrived well packed in just 5 days, just waiting on parts now but hopefully it'll get built up next week. Woot so excited.


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## ICAsh (Sep 24, 2009)

I know, that's exactly what threw me off so much. I messaged a seller that didn't specify which TT measurement it was on the auction - and he said it was horizontal. Therein lay my problem, the seller got it wrong. I thought 540 something was waaaay too short to be an ETT. Sellers seem pretty split as to whether they list ETT or actual, and this one didn't know...nice huh.

I still haven't pulled the trigger, but if I order one it'll be a 16."


----------



## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

ICAsh said:


> I know, that's exactly what threw me off so much. I messaged a seller that didn't specify which TT measurement it was on the auction - and he said it was horizontal. Therein lay my problem, the seller got it wrong. I thought 540 something was waaaay too short to be an ETT. Sellers seem pretty split as to whether they list ETT or actual, and this one didn't know...nice huh.
> 
> I still haven't pulled the trigger, but if I order one it'll be a 16."


I actually found the 16.5 had a shorter ETT than the 16" for some reason - just mould shap / frame design I guess. This is the one I got http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-Full-Car...4?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item51982f5e14 the inclusion of the geomtry image made me a lot happier about the purchase. Holding it next to the Anthem in the garage it's pretty similar.

p.s I will post pictures once it's built up in the next couple of weeks, I'll update more on dimensions then too if you want


----------



## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

Went over the handlebars last night with this carbon fiber beast, not a scratch on it.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I really like it a lot. I'm going to buy a Merek 30mm setback post, to give me a little more room. I'm about 5'9" and it just feels a little short for me. It is super smooth on the trails, I really like the Trigon fork. It handles like a race car, so you have to make sure you're paying attention all the time. But, it goes where you point it and it goes there like right now. If you run a suspension fork, it will slow the steering down a bit, which is probably good for most people. I am running 1x9 with 11-34 in the rear. I thought the biggest problem with that would be climbing power. But that is not the case. I can climb really steep hills with it. When I run out of power sitting it's really easy to stand and climb the rest of the way to the top. But, I run out of gear going down hills. And I like to always be pedaling at least a little, even if I'm going fast enough. I think it helps my balance to always be spinning. So, I think I'm going to go to, something like 38-22 in the front. It will give me more speed down hill and I won't have to stand to climb. I switched weelsets with one of my other bikes, so it's all black now, with a red seat, red grips and red pulleys and bolts here and there. Soon I'm going to get my graphics printed out in red. All in all, I'm very happy with it. In fact, I started riding it to my office, which I have never done before.


Picture update. I put on a Merek setback seatpost. the frame was a little short for me. This post makes it perfect. The bar/stem is a Trigon one piece bar/stem. Light, comfy and absorbs shock.


----------



## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

Nice bike Shawn. I'm thoroughly satisfied with mine and glad I found this hobby.


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Has anyone had any issues or broken their frame yet?


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

mbrick said:


> Has anyone had any issues or broken their frame yet?


No problems with mine, still going strong.


----------



## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm so excited, mine is getting built up tomorrow .... :drumroll: 

I'm getting the bike shop to do the build, as I don't have the tools, time or know-how. Can't wait to see how it looks. I just keep looking at all the photos in this thread, I'm going to have a black stealth racing machine! 

haha now I just have to make sure the engine is going to power it, time to get training.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

hey for those who have put a front derailleur on, what type have you used? Is it top or bottom pull, and I'm assuming the high collar attachment? 

Thanks


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mine is a top swing, I think 34.9mm.


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## apkona (Nov 19, 2010)

just put on the decals


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

lokisare said:


> hey for those who have put a front derailleur on, what type have you used? Is it top or bottom pull, and I'm assuming the high collar attachment?
> 
> Thanks


 I have a high clamp, top pull @ 34.9mm


----------



## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks! Had a low clamp one from an old group set, looks like it won't fit. Waiting now on a high clamp one, hopefully the bike will still be ready by the weekend but possibly not til early next week. It's looking sweet though... photos to come.


----------



## siimot (Feb 3, 2011)

Here's my hongfu frame  3k weave with custom paint done by hongfu also 
Superstar components wheels, DTswiss rims with white spokes and hubs


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

siimot said:


> Here's my hongfu frame


Oooooohhhhh, that's hongnice!! :thumbsup:


----------



## xr_mtb (Jan 6, 2010)

Has anyone bought frame from http://outdoor-bicycle.en.alibaba.com ?


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

xr_mtb said:


> Has anyone bought frame from http://outdoor-bicycle.en.alibaba.com ?


Never heard of them. What about that particular seller's wares that catches your eye?


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## xr_mtb (Jan 6, 2010)

vitiate said:


> Never heard of them. What about that particular seller's wares that catches your eye?


I read from this thread about this seller.
They have a frame with model number FM098.It's very beautiful, i'ts only 1080grams and has post mount. It costs 330 dollars and the shipping for Greece is 90. They can paint your frame for 55.


----------



## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

I just notice something on these FS bike. If you look at the TT, looks like the cable routing holder sits on top of the TT. Looks painful if you don't have much clearance on the top tube or fall and slide against the TT. Ouch!










I wonder if they are just stuck on w/ double sided tape and can be moved to the bottom.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

JimmyNeutron10101 said:


> I just notice something on these FS bike. If you look at the TT, looks like the cable routing holder sits on top of the TT. Looks painful if you don't have much clearance on the top tube or fall and slide against the TT. Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are riveted on. But you could grind the top of the rivet off, pull the cable guide off and use the stick on kind and run them where you want.

But, I'm not sure I would buy a FS Ebay asian frame. I know these companies are as good as any when it comes to building something out of carbon fiber. But a FS takes more then that, there is also a suspension system to design and I'm not sure how well the pivots would hold up.


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

I agree. A hardtail frame is one thing but a FS bike is much more complicated. The front support on the rear shock doesn't look very reinforced for being made out of carbon. The lower mount for the pivot also doesn't look really beefy. Carbon is strong, but I'd stick with a hardtail for asian frames.


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

Is that shock any good? Known? Reputable? I think it was mentioned before but without a final review being found. I'll look but if anyone knows off the top of thier head let me know please.


----------



## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

*Isn't she pretty?*

So here she is!

I've added a photo of her next to the Anthem XW small (16 inch) for geometry and size comparison. The ETT actually ends up about the same as the anthem but the frame is angled slightly differently meaning that I need the seat further forward to have it in the same relative position to BB. This means the overall cockpit ends up shorter. But it's a very similar size, I might have to go a longer stem on the carbon to get the same cockpit length, I'm running a 90mm on the Anthem and I'm thinking a 100mm on the carbon might just make it perfect.

Parts - 
frame ebay carbon in 16.5 inch weighs in at 1300g
SID RLT ti fork
Reyonds MTB C wheels (tubes Maxxis ultralite)
Bars - easton carbon
Stem KCNC
Head set - FSA orbit
Brakes - avid elixir XO
grips - ergon but maybe changing to ESI to loose 100g
Seat Post and clamp - KCNC
Saddle - specialized Jett 143
Crank set - XT 3x9
Pedals - Ritchey v5 Paradigm, just gotta get them in red now
Front Derailleur - XT high clamp
Rear cassette - XT
rear derailleur - XTR with KCNC jockey wheels
Shifters - XT
quick release - KCNC
tyres - x-king race sport 2.2 (but something like a race kind might end up on the back)
KCNC bling

Weight currently 9.6 or 9.7kg (bathroom scales (me+bike) - me gives either 9.6 or 9.7kg so it's probably in between) which is about 3kg lighter than the Anthem!


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

and some more... note the ultimate bike bling - the KCNC valve cap haha, also in the previous post I've taken a rear tyre clearance shot, it's a 2.2 x-king


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nice! It looks like you may need a longer stem and a setback post. That's what I did on my 18" and it feels perfect now. In fact it's the best fitting bike that I have had.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Nice! It looks like you may need a longer stem and a setback post. That's what I did on my 18" and it feels perfect now. In fact it's the best fitting bike that I have had.


the photo makes it look like a bigger difference than it really is. I make it about 10-12mm shorter from the saddle to bars so just a longer stem should be sweet. Got heaps of room to move the saddle back but I don't want to end up too far behind the BB for pedaling efficiency.

Now I've just got to remember how to drive a HT after 18 months on a dually... skills brush up here I come:thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Here's a good rule for sizing the TT lenght. Put the tip of your elbow in front and on the tip of the saddle. The tip of your longest finger should rest half way between the headset cap bolt and the middle of the bar, where it goes through the stem. Or to put it another way, half way down the stem. If you like a shorter cockpit, add 10mm to your finger, 10mm shorter stem. If you like a longer cockpit, minus 10mm from the tip of your finger, 10mm longer stem, or a set back post. When I did it, I already knew that I liked a longer cockpit, and the measurment turned out perfect for me. And the bike feels perfect to me.


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Here's a good rule for sizing the TT lenght. Put the tip of your elbow in front and on the tip of the saddle. The tip of your longest finger should rest half way between the headset cap bolt and the middle of the bar, where it goes through the stem. Or to put it another way, half way down the stem. If you like a shorter cockpit, add 10mm to your finger, 10mm shorter stem. If you like a longer cockpit, minus 10mm from the tip of your finger, 10mm longer stem, or a set back post. When I did it, I already knew that I liked a longer cockpit, and the measurment turned out perfect for me. And the bike feels perfect to me.


That is a great rule of thumb (or is that forearm and finger  ) and reasonably accurate for most.
Have read that one somewhere during the years and good advice as always from you Shaun.:thumbsup:


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

shanesbw said:


> That is a great rule of thumb (or is that forearm and finger  ) and reasonably accurate for most.
> Have read that one somewhere during the years and good advice as always from you Shaun.:thumbsup:


That is not a very good rule. It asumes that everyone has the same arm/torso proportions. What if I have a really long torso and short arms? What if I have a really short torso and long arms? What if I have a long upper arm and a short forearm? What if I have fingers that are 10mm shorter or longer than normal? You need to use a real fit calculator.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> That is not a very good rule. It asumes that everyone has the same arm/torso proportions. What if I have a really long torso and short arms? What if I have a really short torso and long arms? What if I have a long upper arm and a short forearm? What if I have fingers that are 10mm shorter or longer than normal? You need to use a real fit calculator.


You mean like a T-Rex or a gorilla? In that case you may need surgery. All joking aside. Of course, there is no one rule that addresses complete bike fitment. This rule assumes that you have already picked the correct frame size and is only used to futher dial in your reach to the bars while sitting. In that case, the rule works very well.

You really should have known.


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## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> You mean like a T-Rex or a gorilla? In that case you may need surgery. All joking aside. Of course, there is no one rule that addresses complete bike fitment. This rule assumes that you have already picked the correct frame size and is only used to futher dial in your reach to the bars while sitting. In that case, the rule works very well.
> 
> You really should have known.


Isn't the one rule that addresses complete bike fitment actually using a real fit calculator?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

WickedMCMLXXIX said:


> Isn't the one rule that addresses complete bike fitment actually using a real fit calculator?


That takes into account many measurments. I'm talking about only fine tuning your reach, once you have the right sized frame. And remember, unless you have a custom frame made to fit you, buying a bike is always a compromise.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That takes into account many measurments. I'm talking about only fine tuning your reach, once you have the right sized frame. And remember, unless you have a custom frame made to fit you, buying a bike is always a compromise.


If that method works for you, then by all means use it. But it is not a good method to recommend to most people. I am 5' 10" and of very average proportions. A fit calculator shows I need a ETT of 580mm. When I use your rule on my 18" ebay carbon HT (ETT 575mm), my fingers touch the center of the stem top cap. This means I either need a 10mm stem or a much shorter top tube (lets remember a lot of people here say these bikes already have short top tubes) or a seriously forward offset seatpost. All of these things would have me sitting very upright. So this rule comes no where close to working for me.

The rule however did work well for my road bikes, so I suspect this may be used for road bikes. But road bikes are sized much differently that mountain bikes. I also find that the rule was pretty close when I did it to my wifes 14" Haro Sonix. But she is only 5' tall, so I don't think her bike would fit me very well.

There is a good fit calculator at competitve cylist, I may have posted it already.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO

I have never used a fit calculator prior to buying a bike. but I have been riding mountain bikes for 17 years, so I already know what I need. It is just interesting to note that the fit calculator just confirms what I already knew as far as what size frame I need.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

i am going to order one of these frames, and just used that fit calculator
All Mountain Fit 
Standover Height Range 29.5 - 30.1 inches 
Virtual Top Tube Length 27.8 - 28.2 inches 
Stem Length \10.7 - 13.1 cm 7.2 - 10.6 cm 
BB-Saddle Position 65.9 - 71.9 cm 
Saddle-Handlebar 67.1 - 68.9 cm 

I am thinking a 19 or 20inch frame will do the job?


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

Just finished maiden ride on my eBay carbon hardtail...

17" frame, 3k weave
SID RLT Ti fork
SRAM X.9 shifters, rear derailleur
Shimano XT front derailleur, cassette
Race Face Ride XC crankset, Evolve stem
Hayes Stroker Ryde disc brakes
Easton EA70 flat bar, EC70 seatpost
WTB Rocket V saddle
ODI grips
Noname disc hubs laced to old-school X3.1 UST rims
Hutchinson Python UST tires
Cane Creek headset
Time ATAC Alium pedals


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vaelin said:


> Just finished maiden ride on my eBay carbon hardtail...
> 
> 17" frame, 3k weave
> SID RLT Ti fork
> ...


I like it!! How much does it weigh?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vaelin said:


> Just finished maiden ride on my eBay carbon hardtail...
> 
> 17" frame, 3k weave
> SID RLT Ti fork
> ...


3K weave looks better than my 12k. :thumbsup: I am thinking about getting another carbon frame for a new built. May I ask who you bought from?


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Just thread through all 12 pages and I'm totally sold. Going to pick up one of the 12k weave frames from the seller "e_baygoods" and start building


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> i am going to order one of these frames, and just used that fit calculator
> All Mountain Fit
> Standover Height Range 29.5 - 30.1 inches
> Virtual Top Tube Length 27.8 - 28.2 inches
> ...


How big are you? A top tube length of 27.8-28.2 is massive. I don't know if anyone makes a bike that big. I suspect you entered a number incorrectly.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

ljsmith said:


> How big are you? A top tube length of 27.8-28.2 is massive. I don't know if anyone makes a bike that big. I suspect you entered a number incorrectly.


hmmm that messurement is this - Virtual Top Tube Range
This is not a measurement of the actual top tube itself. Rather, this corresponds to the mountain bike industry standard of measuring an imaginary line drawn parallel to the ground along the length of the top tube from the midpoint at the seat tube to the midpoint at the head tube. This is also known as an "effective top tube." No single piece of frame geometry has a greater impact on comfort than your top tube. If you plan on paying attention to one measurement and one measurement only, make it this one.

these are my messurements (in inches)
Inseam: 31
Trunk: 41
Forearm: 16
Arm: 27
Thigh: 25
Lower Leg: 23.5
Sternal Notch: 58
Total Body Height: 72

thanks for the help i wanna get one ordered asap haha


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> thanks for the help i wanna get one ordered asap haha


Who are you going to order one from? I am pulling the trigger soon as well and want to go with a good ebay seller, from reading on here I am pretty much sold on one from "e_baygoods"


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

same seller, e_baygoods
Lots of good feeback, and couple others in this post have ordered from him/her/them and the pics look good
i am itching to order, i just dont know what size i should get lol


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

zc911 said:


> hmmm that messurement is this - Virtual Top Tube Range
> This is not a measurement of the actual top tube itself. Rather, this corresponds to the mountain bike industry standard of measuring an imaginary line drawn parallel to the ground along the length of the top tube from the midpoint at the seat tube to the midpoint at the head tube. This is also known as an "effective top tube." No single piece of frame geometry has a greater impact on comfort than your top tube. If you plan on paying attention to one measurement and one measurement only, make it this one.
> 
> these are my messurements (in inches)
> ...


20" frame at the minumum.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> i am itching to order, i just dont know what size i should get lol


I'll 2nd the recommendation for a 20" frame. I am 5'10" and am going to go with an 18". I worked in two different shops over 8 years and help lots of folks get the proper sized bike 

You getting the 12k or 3k weave?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

storz said:


> I'll 2nd the recommendation for a 20" frame. I am 5'10" and am going to go with an 18". I worked in two different shops over 8 years and help lots of folks get the proper sized bike
> 
> You getting the 12k or 3k weave?


At 5'10", I think you'll need a setback post to fell comfortable.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> At 5'10", I think you'll need a setback post to fell comfortable.


Interesting. I guess these do have pretty short top tubes right?

How tall are you Shawn? I see from an earlier post you have an 18 with the setback post etc


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

awsome thanks guys!! 

i like the 3k weave

hmmm if your 5'10 and going with a 20, and i am 6ft, should i be going bigger? 21?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

storz said:


> Interesting. I guess these do have pretty short top tubes right?
> 
> How tall are you Shawn? I see from an earlier post you have an 18 with the setback post etc


I'm 5' 9.5", so just under 5'10". I have average body proportions I have a 100mm stem/bar and with a straight post, I felt cramped. With my new post, it has at least 25mm of setback, I feel perfect. Plus, with the Triogon fork, my bike turns like a Ferrari. So, the setback post helps take a little weight off the front tire. It just all around feels really good to me, street, dirt, it's just a blast to ride.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> awsome thanks guys!!
> 
> i like the 3k weave
> 
> hmmm if your 5'10 and going with a 20, and i am 6ft, should i be going bigger? 21?


I am going with an 18" frame

You'll fit best on a 20" frame

if you read back a couple of the original posts in this thread the OP stated he is 5'10" and went with an 18 as well

Remember you can tweak sizing with seat posts, stems, bars etc

I am really looking forward to building one of these up, my last XC bike was a '97 Supercaliber so I def like the light and stiff, faster bikes


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I like it!! How much does it weigh?


My luggage scale says 23.6 w/o pedals. Certainly room for improvement, but its a slippery slope from this point forward on dropping the grams.

I got the frame from maniac_bicycle. Chose that seller because of 3k weave and how the seat stay was designed. Seemed much beefier than the other ones.

The bike certainly rides like it's on rails. It rides so nicely I'm planning on just bringing it and not my AM/FR bike to Sea Otter this year. I'm only participating in the MTB Gran Fondo anyways.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

So far I did 500 miles on my Chinese "Felt" and it is still in one piece. I do have other bikes therefore only 500 miles. The ride quality is really amazing, my Scot scale 29er comes close but still it is quite harsh on the bumpy terain while carbon super forgiving.

p.s. I am 187cm tall and I ride 20"" frame.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vaelin said:


> My luggage scale says 23.6 w/o pedals. Certainly room for improvement, but its a slippery slope from this point forward on dropping the grams.
> 
> I got the frame from maniac_bicycle. Chose that seller because of 3k weave and how the seat stay was designed. Seemed much beefier than the other ones.
> 
> The bike certainly rides like it's on rails. It rides so nicely I'm planning on just bringing it and not my AM/FR bike to Sea Otter this year. I'm only participating in the MTB Gran Fondo anyways.


I like the 3k better. But I don't like the frames that have the pinned together seat/chain stay. I like the solid on piece version like mine, and at the time they only came in 12k Now I see they also make them in 3k. Oh well!


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> I am going with an 18" frame
> 
> You'll fit best on a 20" frame
> 
> ...


awosme thanks, i am going with a 20, over to ebay i go to place my order, then the fun part of picking out the rest of the parts for it


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> So far I did 500 miles on my Chinese "Felt" and it is still in one piece. I do have other bikes therefore only 500 miles. The ride quality is really amazing, my Scot scale 29er comes close but still it is quite harsh on the bumpy terain while carbon super forgiving.
> 
> p.s. I am 187cm tall and I ride 20"" frame.


excellent pretty much the same height as me


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> hmmm that messurement is this - Virtual Top Tube Range
> This is not a measurement of the actual top tube itself. Rather, this corresponds to the mountain bike industry standard of measuring an imaginary line drawn parallel to the ground along the length of the top tube from the midpoint at the seat tube to the midpoint at the head tube. This is also known as an "effective top tube." No single piece of frame geometry has a greater impact on comfort than your top tube. If you plan on paying attention to one measurement and one measurement only, make it this one.
> 
> these are my messurements (in inches)
> ...


Your measurements are messed up. You say you are 72" tall, with a 31" inseam and a
41" trunk. So if I add your trunk and inseam together I get 72". This would tell me that you do not have a head, or your head is embedded in your torso. I think you need to remeasure your trunk, carefully following the directions. A 41" trunk is awfully long for someone who is 72" tall. This is why your top tube measurement came out so unbelievably big. Hopefully that will get your the right numbers you need and you can get one of these frames on its way to you! More than likely the 19" or 20" frame will work for you depending on what length stem you want to use.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

hahah you are right, i'll ahve to get my wife to messure again lol
thanks !

edit, i am going with a 20, i dont like to be cramped


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

So are these frames stiff? I'm thinking of getting one and swapping components over and selling the old frame. curious if these frames are more stiff compared to your aluminum frame?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Gabe3 said:


> So are these frames stiff? I'm thinking of getting one and swapping components over and selling the old frame. curious if these frames are more stiff compared to your aluminum frame?


Stiff where they should be and compliant where they should be. That's the marvel of carbon fiber.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Stiff where they should be and compliant where they should be. That's the marvel of carbon fiber.


Yes. These cheap Chinese frames are better than our Scott scale 29er frames. Carbon is great on a bumpy road/trail.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> excellent pretty much the same height as me


Hihi. :thumbsup: I like big frames. I have got long legs and long arms. The rame does not feel big, it will be a perfect fit. My wife has the "Bianchi" carbon frame size 18. She is 172cm tall. I posted some pics in this thread. It is a torture to ride for me.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> Hihi. :thumbsup: I like big frames. I have got long legs and long arms. The rame does not feel big, it will be a perfect fit. My wife has the "Bianchi" carbon frame size 18. She is 172cm tall. I posted some pics in this thread. It is a torture to ride for me.


awsome i can;t wait to get it!

help me choose a fork. I am probably skimping for now but

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?Item=100046178
or
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?Item=100038653


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

zc911 said:


> awsome i can;t wait to get it!
> 
> help me choose a fork. I am probably skimping for now but
> 
> ...


try and get a tora with motion control.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCK-SHOX-RockS...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e62e90c00

this guy?


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

All those forks are super heavy. Negates the value of a light weight frame in my opinion. I'd go with a Magura Durin, RS Sid, Manitou R7, or Fox F Series.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

bah i know. There are some nice ones on ebay right now no reserve, but all have been cut. How long of a steering tube does the frame need?


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

zc911 said:


> How long of a steering tube does the frame need?


Depends on the particular model and size of frame. I'd think if you add the headtube length to stem clamping height and add ~5 cm you would be fine. That would give you some ability to adjust with spacers to dial in your fit.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> awsome i can;t wait to get it!
> 
> help me choose a fork. I am probably skimping for now but
> 
> ...


I am not going to lie. I am a Rockshox guy. We are both using Rockshox Recon Silver TK 100mm for our carbon frames. These are fantastic forks, easy to service, solo air spring, adjustable and fairly light. Iw ould like to build another bike but with carbon rigid fork this time.

http://roadanddirtcyclery.com/catal...recon-silver-tk-air-100mm-whtpoplocrmt-p-2123


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

PatrickK said:


> I am not going to lie. I am a Rockshox guy. We are both using Rockshox Recon Silver TK 100mm for our carbon frames. These are fantastic forks, easy to service, solo air spring, adjustable and fairly light. Iw ould like to build another bike but with carbon rigid fork this time.
> 
> http://roadanddirtcyclery.com/catal...recon-silver-tk-air-100mm-whtpoplocrmt-p-2123


Affordable too! But you will add about 1 lb. Since this is not the WW forum, I'll shut up about weight now


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Go Trigon rigid carbon, $200 @ Ebay.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

1lb isn;t worth $200 to me haha. $50 yes, $200 no haha
the frame shipped yesterday so hopefully it gets here before some of the nice ebay shock auctions end, and i can messure to see if the steering tube length will be ok
The Manitou R7 option seems like a nice one for the price too, about $320 shipped for a brand new one

So does this
http://roadanddirtcyclery.com/catal...anitou-minute-expert-80mm-blk-qrbosses-p-2224


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Go Trigon rigid carbon, $200 @ Ebay.


thought about that too, hmmmmmmmm

This seems awsome too 1900g $200!
http://roadanddirtcyclery.com/catalog/categories_name-c-0/marzocchi-44-rlo-blk-140mm-p-2244


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

140mm for a HT is a bit much.

I'm running a 100mm SID RLT Ti on mine. Got for about 650 from Universal Cycles.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

it can be set at 120mm with the included spacer


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vitiate said:


> Affordable too! But you will add about 1 lb. Since this is not the WW forum, I'll shut up about weight now


You are right. Thai is why I want to build another bike with a rigid fork.:thumbsup:


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

I think these are spec'd for an 80mm fork. 100mm max I would think.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

someone said the carbon fiber near the drink bottle holder is flimsy, is this on the 3k or 12k version?


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Someone mentioned that the effective TT length is actually smaller than what is stated.

Here's what is stated for a 16.5" frame.









So, if I was to get a 16.5" frame, the effective TT length is smaller than 556mm? Shorter by how mow much or is the measurement stated by the seller pretty accurate?

Thanks!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I'll measure my 18" frame tonight.

Mine measures about 560mm, It should be about 575mm. But I do have a short Trigon fork on it. That will shorten it up a little.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

I have the 16.5" and I make the ETT about 556mm but's hard to get an accurate measure. The difference between this frame and my other frame with similar measurements is when you look at both frames and imagine the BB as a centre point, the carbon HT frame is rotated slightly anticlockwise.... like the same effect putting a longer fork on would have. This changes the angles of the seat tube so the saddle ends up further behind the BB, I need to move my saddle forward to get the same saddle to BB relationship. This in turn shortens the cockpit relative to my other bike. So while the ETT is about the same I need to move the saddle forward to get it in the right position relative to BB which effectively shortens the distance between saddle and bars.

Overall compared to my anthem with an ETT of 555 the cockpit on the HT comes up about 8-10mm shorter with the saddle moved forward to account for difference in seat tube angle. 

Btw the angles published are near identical to my anthem, and the frames are indeed similar. The different is just that when the wheels and fork are on the front end of the HT is a little higher so that rotates all the frame geometry round a bit. Hope that makes sense. I have 100mm travel forks on both. 

On another note, the Carbon HT corners like I've never cornered before! :thumbsup: Plus it floats up hill.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

how much did it cost you guys to build a bike out of one of these, and how much does it weigh?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

lokisare said:


> On another note, the Carbon HT corners like I've never cornered before! :thumbsup: Plus it floats up hill.


You got that right!! And I love it!!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'll measure my 18" frame tonight.
> 
> Mine measures about 560mm, It should be about 575mm. But I do have a short Trigon fork on it. That will shorten it up a little.


Sorry, I edited instead of replied. Anyway it's up there ^.


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

Gabe3 said:


> how much did it cost you guys to build a bike out of one of these, and how much does it weigh?


I spent a little less than $2k total.

Considering an equivalent 'race' spec XC carbon HT would have cost me twice as much, I'm pretty happy.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

probably spent around 3000 (aud) and it weighs 9.5kg....

Major expenditure items were:
Wheels about $600 
Fork about $650
Frame $320
Brakes $300

Then all the rest, pedals, grips, crankset, bars, seat post, stem, chain, headset (comes with one but I wanted a better one), tyres etc...
but I'm also getting stuff shipped to Australia so maybe not able to get the cheapest stuff out there...


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

think its possible to spend $1000 usd and end up with something about 23lbs? figure I could save money on fork, $200 (manitou r7- 3lbs). wheelset, $170, 1700g

i want it to weigh 22-24lbs I don't know if I can make that happen for $1000. willing to buy used parts to save.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Gabe3 said:


> think its possible to spend $1000 usd and end up with something about 23lbs? figure I could save money on fork, $200 (manitou r7- 3lbs). wheelset, $170, 1700g
> 
> i want it to weigh 22-24lbs I don't know if I can make that happen for $1000. willing to buy used parts to save.


I don't think so, probably more like 1300 to 1500. Depends on the deals you chance upon and your patience too though.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

so far i am at $717 for frame, Manitou R7 Pro (1500g, awsome !), and Sun Ryno lite wheels/tires/quick release's(about 2100g, cheaped out a little on the wheels. But i am 230lbs and i dont want cheap lighter wheels), for now they will do, easy to replace later with some high quality lighter wheels. 
Trying to go used on some hydro disc's off ebay for $100(500g). There are some good deals on ebay for Race Face cranksets(800-950g depending on the model, $80-$160) . That will be next. I think i am going with 175mm arm length
Then i'll need a chainsetup/shifters. Probably going to go with an 8spd rear cassette with Shimano components.
I want a carbon seat post ($80-$100) and i am not sure what seat yet, any suggestions?

once i get that all together i will sit on the bike and decide on the bars (thinking Race Face carbon riser bars and grips $120, 95g) and stem length


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

zc911 said:


> I want a carbon seat post ($80-$100) and i am not sure what seat yet, any suggestions?
> 
> once i get that all together i will sit on the bike and decide on the bars (thinking Race Face carbon riser bars and grips $120, 95g) and stem length


Have a look at KCNC scandium for seat post, stem and bars - lighter than a lot of carbon and pretty nice!


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

zc911 said:


> any suggestions?


Here's what I would spec:

Disc Brakes: Hygia (Search MTBR for info) $190
9 Spd Rear Cassette: Shimano XT (Jensonusa: $70)
Rear Der: SRAM X.9 (Jensonusa: $70)
Front Der: Whatever fits and is cheap
Shifters: Grip Shift X.9 (Jensonusa: $36)
Chain: SRAM PC-951 (Jensonusa: $18)
Seatpost: Easton EC70 (Jensonusa: $52)
Seat: Sette Nyx (Comfortable (for me) and fairly light at 204g) Pricepoint: $40
Stem: Performance (fairly lightweight ~140g for ~$25)

All the above are what I consider a good mix of reasonably light weight at an affordable price.

Apart from ebay and/or Performance (providing there's one nearby), I'd recommend purchasing as much from the same retailer so you pay minimal shipping fees. The seat would be my exception as I really like it. Maybe that helps


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

Alternatively buying a complete bike, new or used, with the right spec parts on it can be a cheaper way of getting the goodies you need. You even get a spare frame for emergencies at the end of it all


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

Discodan said:


> Alternatively buying a complete bike, new or used, with the right spec parts on it can be a cheaper way of getting the goodies you need. You even get a spare frame for emergencies at the end of it all


how would that be possible, it would cost around 2k with the parts needed for the carbon hardtail to be light. not saying your wrong, maybe giving an example bike would help?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Discodan said:


> Alternatively buying a complete bike, new or used, with the right spec parts on it can be a cheaper way of getting the goodies you need. You even get a spare frame for emergencies at the end of it all


I agree, a little. You'll have to accept some parts that you don't like. I build by looking for killer deals on Ebay. For example, I bought a new set of Hayes Stroker Trail brakes, complete for $100. A good new carbon seatpost for $25. A set of new Alligator rotors for $20. I also look for good deals on used parts, but I am careful about what kind of parts I will buy used.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

lokisare said:


> Have a look at KCNC scandium for seat post, stem and bars - lighter than a lot of carbon and pretty nice!


awsome thanks will do !


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

vitiate said:


> Here's what I would spec:
> 
> Disc Brakes: Hygia (Search MTBR for info) $190
> 9 Spd Rear Cassette: Shimano XT (Jensonusa: $70)
> ...


cool thanks for the list !
Winning a Race Face crank set on ebay an hour to go. Gotta help the local guys a little (i am from Canada )


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Well I just drank the carbon Kool-Aide and ordered a frame from "e_baygoods"

Went with the 12k weave and a 19" frame

Link to the ad

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...XYlvkYE%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

awsome, now it;s all downhill for your wallet (haha )

got a Race Face Desus XC gold and black crankset for $150, 853g with BB
Pretty happy
I think the bike is going to end up black, gold and CF

thinking about going with this basic drivetrain kit
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Shimano-Deore-9-...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5198cc9892


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> cool thanks for the list !
> Winning a Race Face crank set on ebay an hour to go. Gotta help the local guys a little (i am from Canada )


I love Race Face stuff


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Can anyone comment on on this frame from carbonzone? I am a little bit confused about the sizing. It seems to be a different design, 3k weave and a bit more pricey.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3k-full-Carbon-...7396974?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item2561f773ee


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> Can anyone comment on on this frame from carbonzone? I am a little bit confused about the sizing. It seems to be a different design, 3k weave and a bit more pricey.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/3k-full-Carbon-Mountain-MTB-Frame-19-/160557396974?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item2561f773ee


What are you confused about? How tall are you?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> What are you confused about? How tall are you?


I am 187cm tall. I do have an ebay carbon frame that I bought last year. I would like to build a bike with a rigid fork for road. I did compare sizing and it seems 3k 19 inches frame is bigger than 12k 20 inches I have at home. Is there any difference between 3k and 12k weave in terms of riding.

http://www.storckbicycle.com/usa/index.php?c=tech&s=carbonfiber


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

PatrickK said:


> I am 187cm tall. I do have an ebay carbon frame that I bought last year. I would like to build a bike with a rigid fork for road. I did compare sizing and it seems 3k 19 inches frame is bigger than 12k 20 inches I have at home. Is there any difference between 3k and 12k weave in terms of riding.
> 
> http://www.storckbicycle.com/usa/index.php?c=tech&s=carbonfiber


The actual geometry will vary between designs. Don't go by the numerical size (ie...19", 20", etc), instead, look at the geometry chart and match it to your sizing needs.

As stated in your link, the weave can make a difference in ride quality, but what you are looking at is the top cosmetic layer. Whether the cosmetic layer is 3k or 12k matters little compared to the carbon layup and what weave was used beneath. Perhaps a 3k or 12k frame uses that material throughout, I don't know, but most seem to buy the weave that looks best to them.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vitiate said:


> The actual geometry will vary between designs. Don't go by the numerical size (ie...19", 20", etc), instead, look at the geometry chart and match it to your sizing needs.
> 
> As stated in your link, the weave can make a difference in ride quality, but what you are looking at is the top cosmetic layer. Whether the cosmetic layer is 3k or 12k matters little compared to the carbon layup and what weave was used beneath. Perhaps a 3k or 12k frame uses that material throughout, I don't know, but most seem to buy the weave that looks best to them.


Ok, I get it.:thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

The 3k's are all 3k. The 12k's are 3k under and 12k on top.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

everying is ordered  i went with the SRAM drivetrain setup, rear cassette (pg 980, 275g) and chain, race face seat post (270g), sette carbon highrise o/s bar (210g) and mount (129g) and seat clamp(47g). Went with the Topeak Allay Racing Sport saddle with the air pump in large. the other seats where too small haha. 

Also got the tools to install the cassette, BB, and 4,5,6mm torx wrench set

Just looking for some barley used brakes now haha. nice set of Hayes on ebay.

I am going to modifiy an engine stand as a bike stand to build it on, should work


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ I've had good luck with Avid Mechanical disc brakes in the past. Not as fancy as the hydraulics but I ran them on a Kona Stab DH bike and they worked fine, for the price they are hard to beat.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19.../Disc/Avid-BB5-Mechanical-Disc-Brake-2011.htm


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

I run the Avid mech's too and love them. Get the BB7 over the BB5 if you go that route. Had the Juicy 5 before, what a horrible brake in my experience.

Working with carbon, a torque wrench is a good idea. This one has the range for bike parts and has served me well while being affordable: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html

Also, use carbon assembly paste on the seatpost (no grease), handlebars, and anywhere else carbon is being clamped.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

i got a set of hayes off ebay last night for $50 !

Thanks for the heads up on the assembly paste, i'll get some. I have a selection of torque wrnechs so i am good there 

Thanks guys for the help!


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> i got a set of hayes off ebay last night for $50 !
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the assembly paste, i'll get some. I have a selection of torque wrnechs so i am good there
> 
> Thanks guys for the help!


When is your expected delivery date? (lol it sounds like we're talking about kids)


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

hahah  hmmm i hope by the end of the week. It's a holiday here friday, so it would be AWSOME if eveything showed up thursday 

i need some pedals actually haha last thing


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I will be getting mine from Dengfu this time. Model FM016 size 19.

http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=6&classid=23


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Got a line on a Float 100RL for mine  Going to check it out this evening


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

This is the frame I would like to get. Any comments about weaknesses?:thumbsup:

I am a little bit worried about rear. I am not sure whether the area around skewers is carbon or aluminum.

https://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/pkdpkd/?action=view&current=P1140369.jpg


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I figured this would be a good place to ask if any of you carbon heads are running something like a 3M plastic film on your downtubes for rock protection? I just purchased a XTC Carbon and the sound of the small rocks peppering the downtube makes me wonder how much it will take.

No visible damage but just starting to consider a film like this: http://www.clearmask.com/lightgard.php

probably just worrying about nothing but Carbon is new for me...


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

RipRoar said:


> I figured this would be a good place to ask if any of you carbon heads are running something like a 3M plastic film on your downtubes for rock protection? I just purchased a XTC Carbon and the sound of the small rocks peppering the downtube makes me wonder how much it will take.
> 
> No visible damage but just starting to consider a film like this: http://www.clearmask.com/lightgard.php
> 
> probably just worrying about nothing but Carbon is new for me...


This is what I use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TPC7HU


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> This is the frame I would like to get. Any comments about weaknesses?:thumbsup:
> 
> I am a little bit worried about rear. I am not sure whether the area around skewers is carbon or aluminum.
> 
> https://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/pkdpkd/?action=view&current=P1140369.jpg


It looks carbon to me, with a metal hanger. It's one piece, so it should be strong. I don't like the frames that have the pinned together seat/chain stay joint.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

RipRoar said:


> I figured this would be a good place to ask if any of you carbon heads are running something like a 3M plastic film on your downtubes for rock protection? I just purchased a XTC Carbon and the sound of the small rocks peppering the downtube makes me wonder how much it will take.
> 
> No visible damage but just starting to consider a film like this: http://www.clearmask.com/lightgard.php
> 
> probably just worrying about nothing but Carbon is new for me...


I went to a moto place and picked up a pack of clear # plate 3M stuff. I put a strip down the underside of the downtube, around the bottom of the BB and around the drivetrain side of the BB. It was only like $10 for 6 big sheets.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> It looks carbon to me, with a metal hanger. It's one piece, so it should be strong. I don't like the frames that have the pinned together seat/chain stay joint.


It looks like a Stumpjumper frame. :thumbsup:


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

got my frame 

but it's 12k weave  i contacted the seller, we will see what they say
It sucks becuase now the bars wont match, they are 3k (damn it i sound like a girl lol) but really what the hell


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> got my frame
> 
> but it's 12k weave  i contacted the seller, we will see what they say
> It sucks becuase now the bars wont match, they are 3k (damn it i sound like a girl lol) but really what the hell


That is well shameful. :skep: My wife said no bling bling so it is matt black this time.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

zc911 said:


> got my frame


Sweet! Let's see some photos


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> It looks like a Stumpjumper frame. :thumbsup:


Chances are really good that it is made by the factory that made the stumpjumper. Probably the same place that makes the Niner carbon HT. There are only a handfull of places that make all the carbon frames. That's why it's so good to buy these. They are just as good as the frames you pay $2000 for.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

ok lets see if this works


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Chances are really good that it is made by the factory that made the stumpjumper. Probably the same place that makes the Niner carbon HT. There are only a handfull of places that make all the carbon frames. That's why it's so good to buy these. They are just as good as the frames you pay $2000 for.


Interesting. I think Spec or Niner overcharge on their frames so they can provide lifetime warranty. I might actually put some Spec decals on my bike then haters and trolls will show up. It is the same with computers. I always built mine.

What do you think about x9 shifters and real derailleur? All my bikes are running on x7.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

zc911 said:


> got my frame
> 
> but it's 12k weave  i contacted the seller, we will see what they say
> It sucks becuase now the bars wont match, they are 3k (damn it i sound like a girl lol) but really what the hell


That sucks! And shipping back to the orient is really expensive. I wanted the 3k, but it wasn't available at the time. I would see if the seller would throw you a free part and just keep the 12k frame.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

ya or refund me some money, the 12k looks good, but the 3k would have looked better


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> That is well shameful. :skep: My wife said no bling bling so it is matt black this time.


yes it is
dont pait it, naked carbon looks so good :thumbsup:


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## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

PatrickK said:


> Interesting. I think Spec or Niner overcharge on their frames so they can provide lifetime warranty. I might actually put some Spec decals on my bike then haters and trolls will show up. It is the same with computers. I always built mine.
> 
> What do you think about x9 shifters and real derailleur? All my bikes are running on x7.


Why would you advertise for them if you wouldn't buy their bike?


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

trboxman said:


> Why would you advertise for them if you wouldn't buy their bike?


No, I will not do it. I will post some pics when I get mine. However I own two Pitch comps.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> yes it is
> dont pait it, naked carbon looks so good :thumbsup:


It looks good but it protects a frame from minor damage.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> What do you think about x9 shifters and real derailleur? All my bikes are running on x7.


X9 Shifters especially have a far nicer feel than the X7 stuff. The X0 shifters are another step up on that. I have X0 shifters on all my bikes, but tend to run X9 derailleurs, as they're much cheaper when I hit a rock!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> Interesting. I think Spec or Niner overcharge on their frames so they can provide lifetime warranty. I might actually put some Spec decals on my bike then haters and trolls will show up. It is the same with computers. I always built mine.
> 
> What do you think about x9 shifters and real derailleur? All my bikes are running on x7.


Don't really know. But go to the drivetrain forum and look around. I'm running some older XTR stuff, 1x9, just because I have it and it works great for me


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Isildur said:


> X9 Shifters especially have a far nicer feel than the X7 stuff. The X0 shifters are another step up on that. I have X0 shifters on all my bikes, but tend to run X9 derailleurs, as they're much cheaper when I hit a rock!


Is it a lot smoother? I would love to get X0 but we have six bikes.... I will look around then.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

If you can find them, go X0. Even 2nd hand, they're really nice shifters. The X9s are almost as good as X0s, and certainly better than X7s. The main difference between the X0 & X9/7, is that the X0 shifters use a bearing rather than a bushing, making it feel nicer and, i guess, adding to the life span.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Isildur said:


> If you can find them, go X0. Even 2nd hand, they're really nice shifters. The X9s are almost as good as X0s, and certainly better than X7s. The main difference between the X0 & X9/7, is that the X0 shifters use a bearing rather than a bushing, making it feel nicer and, i guess, adding to the life span.


Thank you for the info. I noticed some people say it is PITA to change cables in x.0. I found them for $135.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Isildur said:


> If you can find them, go X0. Even 2nd hand, they're really nice shifters. The X9s are almost as good as X0s, and certainly better than X7s. The main difference between the X0 & X9/7, is that the X0 shifters use a bearing rather than a bushing, making it feel nicer and, i guess, adding to the life span.


Are you talking about triggers or grip shift?


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> Thank you for the info. I noticed some people say it is PITA to change cables in x.0. I found them for $135.


They can be a bit fiddly to change the cable over, but if you take your time and don't just try and ram the cable through it'll be fine. Definitely not as easy as Shimano shifters to change though, but it's not as bad as some tasks 



vitiate said:


> Are you talking about triggers or grip shift?


Talking about trigger shifters. I've haven't run grip shifters in a looooong time, so I can't comment on the setup of those


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

PatrickK said:


> This is what I use.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TPC7HU


Thanks guys, its good to know others are thinking the same...Im going to do it.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

RipRoar said:


> Thanks guys, its good to know others are thinking the same...Im going to do it.


It is quite stretchy but at the same time fairly thick.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

RipRoar said:


> I figured this would be a good place to ask if any of you carbon heads are running something like a 3M plastic film on your downtubes for rock protection? I just purchased a XTC Carbon and the sound of the small rocks peppering the downtube makes me wonder how much it will take.
> 
> No visible damage but just starting to consider a film like this: http://www.clearmask.com/lightgard.php
> 
> probably just worrying about nothing but Carbon is new for me...


Frameskin clear protection under the down tube, Framewrap (this stuff ROCKS) on the chain stay. The Frameskin stuff - it's good but any clear kinda protection stuff is similar, the framewrap however http://www.frameskin.com/category.php?id_category=2 rocks - it's non-adhesive but bonds to itself so it doesn't leave sticky on the frame but holds firm. Someone ex-navy told me it's used in marine environs called vulcanizing tape?? Worth every penny.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> got my frame
> 
> but it's 12k weave  i contacted the seller, we will see what they say
> It sucks becuase now the bars wont match, they are 3k (damn it i sound like a girl lol) but really what the hell


Thats quick, when did you order it again?


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

I picked up a gently used Fox Float 100RL last night for mine


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

awsome ! and i think it took 7 days, pretty fast


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## 2clue (Jun 9, 2007)

PatrickK said:


> Interesting. I think Spec or Niner overcharge on their frames so they can provide lifetime warranty. I might actually put some Spec decals on my bike then haters and trolls will show up. It is the same with computers. I always built mine.
> 
> What do you think about x9 shifters and real derailleur? All my bikes are running on x7.


No, they overcharge to cover for their massive overhead fees and also to produce a larger profit margin on each individual unit sale. The Chinese way of doing business is slightly different from the rest of the world, they believe in selling with lower profit margins, but compensating with volume of sales.

As for warranty, unless you know someone on the inside it is usually quite difficult to get your bike warranty. It has to be a very apparent manufacture defect for them to even consider replacing it. After a few years, even some of those apparent defects may be blamed upon natural wear and tear. In a nutshell it is very hard to receive a replacement frame from any company. 
Also for a fun fact.. Your Specialized warranty voided the moment you bunny hop your bike as both wheel have left the ground intentionally.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yep, the warranty is one downside, and maybe the only downside from buying this stuff straight from Asia. I learned that, with a carbon post I bought. I needed a 31.6 and they sent me a 30.9. It was going to cost like $80 to send it back and I only paid about $35 + $15 shipping for it. So I unbolted the head and slipped it along the left side of my Mini Cooper seat. It fits perfect now!


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

^ thats BS dude, these guys are going to pay shipping on my frame back to china and then send me the proper 3k one. So i gotta give them credit so far so good


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> ^ thats BS dude, these guys are going to pay shipping on my frame back to china and then send me the proper 3k one. So i gotta give them credit so far so good


That's awesome to know they are standing behind their product and service like that!


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

2clue said:


> No, they overcharge to cover for their massive overhead fees and also to produce a larger profit margin on each individual unit sale. The Chinese way of doing business is slightly different from the rest of the world, they believe in selling with lower profit margins, but compensating with volume of sales.
> 
> As for warranty, unless you know someone on the inside it is usually quite difficult to get your bike warranty. It has to be a very apparent manufacture defect for them to even consider replacing it. After a few years, even some of those apparent defects may be blamed upon natural wear and tear. In a nutshell it is very hard to receive a replacement frame from any company.
> Also for a fun fact.. Your Specialized warranty voided the moment you bunny hop your bike as both wheel have left the ground intentionally.


Thanks you for the heads up. I am more than ashamed to bike on my Specialized. I bought it because it was on sale for a ridiculous price of $1100 and the store shipped it to me last year. Otherwise I would never spend $2000 on an-all mountain bike.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

zc911 said:


> ^ thats BS dude, these guys are going to pay shipping on my frame back to china and then send me the proper 3k one. So i gotta give them credit so far so good


That's what they told me about my seatpost. They said they would refund the shipping back after they got it. I wasn't going to spend the $80 to find out. I sent them a picture with calipers on the post, But that wasn't enough. It would have been much cheaper for them to just send me the right post. That's why I didn't believe they would refund the shipping back and send me the right post. And to send a frame back, it's going to cost a lot. And if it gets damaged on the way back, your going to be screwed. Someone told me, that deals with the Asians a lot, he told me never deal with the china, only deal with Taiwan.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's what they told me about my seatpost. They said they would refund the shipping back after they got it. I wasn't going to spend the $80 to find out. I sent them a picture with calipers on the post, But that wasn't enough. It would have been much cheaper for them to just send me the right post. That's why I didn't believe they would refund the shipping back and send me the right post. And to send a frame back, it's going to cost a lot. And if it gets damaged on the way back, your going to be screwed. Someone told me, that deals with the Asians a lot, he told me never deal with the china, only deay with Taiwan.


They definitely were not going to refund your shipping costs. The reason these guys can send you stuff so cheap is because they get huge discounts from the shipping companies because of high volume. If they really wanted to pay for your return shipping they would send you a prepaid shipping label. There is no way they are going to lose money paying that much to receive a return. My advice to zc911, do not pay to ship it back. Make sure they send you a pre paid shipping label. If they won't, then you know that there is no way they are going to refund your shipping costs.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

cool thanks for the head up. I wont ship it back. I'll get them to refund me as much as i can. When i get the rest of my parts, if it doesn't look good, i'll sell the frame locally and take my chances and order the 3k one agin


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> They definitely were not going to refund your shipping costs. The reason these guys can send you stuff so cheap is because they get huge discounts from the shipping companies because of high volume. If they really wanted to pay for your return shipping they would send you a prepaid shipping label. There is no way they are going to lose money paying that much to receive a return. My advice to zc911, do not pay to ship it back. Make sure they send you a pre paid shipping label. If they won't, then you know that there is no way they are going to refund your shipping costs.


That's why, I didn't send my seatpost back.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

got my front fork. this thing is awsome, i can;t believe how light it is !
i can't wait to ride this thing


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> got my front fork. this thing is awsome, i can;t believe how light it is !
> i can't wait to ride this thing


I love the R7. The absolute damping is awesome. You can completely tune the feel of the fork while on the trail very easily. I also like Manitous better than other forks because they are much more plush across the full range of travel than RS or Fox. They had some quality issues a while back, so most people won't touch them with a 10 foot pole now, which is why you can get them so cheap.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> I love the R7. The absolute damping is awesome. You can completely tune the feel of the fork while on the trail very easily. I also like Manitous better than other forks because they are much more plush across the full range of travel than RS or Fox. They had some quality issues a while back, so most people won't touch them with a 10 foot pole now, which is why you can get them so cheap.


What years are good to buy, without worrying about the quality control?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> cool thanks for the head up. I wont ship it back. I'll get them to refund me as much as i can. When i get the rest of my parts, if it doesn't look good, i'll sell the frame locally and take my chances and order the 3k one agin


I would keep 12k. Do you really need 3k weave? 12k looks great.

https://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/pkdpkd/?action=view&current=FELTcarbon6.jpg

p.s. it is a fake Felt.:skep:


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I only have experience with the 2008 models of R7. I have an R7 MRD on my carbon bike. It has been flawless for the past two years, no leaks and perfect performance. I also used to have a R7 elite. It also was great. I used to have a 2005 Skareb, and I didn't have any problems with it either. Everything I heard about their quality problems was from other people, I have not had any problems.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> I would keep 12k. Do you really need 3k weave? 12k looks great.
> 
> https://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/pkdpkd/?action=view&current=FELTcarbon6.jpg
> 
> p.s. it is a fake Felt.:skep:


I would keep the 12k. I mean, I like the 3k better, but you want to build it and ride it. I'm pretty anal about building stuff that matches. But the frame that I got wasn't available in 3k at the time and I just didn't let it bother me.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

zc911 said:


> 12k frame


What size / model did you order?

If you ordered using paypal and you absolutely don't want to keep it, you can open a dispute or make a claim.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

vitiate said:


> What size / model did you order?
> 
> If you ordered using paypal and you absolutely don't want to keep it, you can open a dispute or make a claim.


You can open a dispute with paypal. The problem is that even paypal requires that you pay the return shipping. Return shipping to China is way too expensive for a private individual. Unless you can get a corporate discount on the shipping it is not worth it.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Here's a little update on mine. Racing Ralph 2.25 Evo Red Strip tires. Maybe I can kick the families ass out before it gets dark tomorrow to try them.


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

^looks great, whats the weight?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Gabe3 said:


> ^looks great, whats the weight?


I weighed it on the batroom scale with me holding it, but that's not very acurate. It keeps on coming up at 20 pounds even though I have put a lot of lighter parts on it. I am guessing 17 pounds, but I will have it weighed soon. I have a gold KMC chain to put on it and I don't have a chain tool so, I'll take it to a bike shop and weigh it then.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

The bike is is looking great MCS. Another red machine. (-: I am going lime green this time. Are you running tubeless? I will be using Holy Rollers but they are a bit on a heavy side.

What rotors are these? What is the weight?


----------



## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

Update on my beauty  she's done about 130km in total now and the partnership is only getting better. I'm relearning how to ride a hardtail and she's helping. Did 70km today with around 1500m climbing and the difference between climbing on this beauty and climbing on the Anthem (which is by no means a heavy slow bike!) is just phenomenal. 

Really enjoying this bike, no issues so far. Now running a Conti X-king on the front and a supersonic race king on the back.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

both bikes look great guys ! 
ahhh where are my parts haha the stuff from across the ocean came quicker than the stuff from the US lol


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> The bike is is looking great MCS. Another red machine. (-: I am going lime green this time. Are you running tubeless? I will be using Holy Rollers but they are a bit on a heavy side.
> 
> What rotors are these? What is the weight?


Alligator rotors, front 160mm, 88 grams, rear 140mm, 62 grams. I paid like $25 for both of them on Ebay and I like them better then the stock rotors

I'm Running Maxxis Flyweight tubes @ 95 grams/tube. They seem to be pretty strong. When I put on the RR's I pinched the tube between the tire and rim and inflated the tube to about 60 psi before I realized what a stupid thing I had done. I let the air out, poked the tube back in, I set front at 30 psi, rear at 32 psi and it didn't lose any air over night.

But, I do plan on going getto tubless with some 24" presta tubes split down the middle, lay them under the tire beads and cut the rest off with a razor and put some Caffe Latex in to seal.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Love the updates! Hoping my frame shows up this week


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

There is a similar thread over in the 29er section, and someone posted some pics of one of the factories that make these frames...thought you guys might be interested to see

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7983850#post7983850


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

storz said:


> There is a similar thread over in the 29er section, and someone posted some pics of one of the factories that make these frames...thought you guys might be interested to see
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7983850#post7983850


damn how tempting....  those 29ers look awesome


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

My frame was delivered yesterday!!!!


But no one was home to sign for it 

Headed to the post office first thing after work. I am amazed at the speed of delivery, ordered it on 4/16 and its at my door from China on 4/25


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

awsome. Yup shipping is friggen quick from China. I am still waiting on eveything else from the US!


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> awsome. Yup shipping is friggen quick from China. I am still waiting on eveything else from the US!


No wonder everything is made in China nowadays.:skep:


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Just got back from the Post Office - the frame is home!

I got a nice surprise upon opening the box, instead of a 12k frame they sent me a 3k frame!! I am actually happy as I like the looks of the 3k better 

Without further ado - my 19" 3k ebay Carbon frame...


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)




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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> No wonder everything is made in China nowadays.:skep:


Yeah, and did you hear on the news today how they are developing aircraft carriers and fighter jets. They want an offensive military instead of a defensive one. And we are making China rich, so they can kick our ass in the future.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

storz said:


>


You must have got zc911's frame.

Even if you like the 3k, you should leave negative feedback. It looks like these guys don't care what frame they send you. I have noticed some of the adds lately, they advertise a 3k, but the picture is a 12k. They don't care what you get 'cause they know it's to expensive to send it back.


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

^ What he said. You are lucky to like what you received, but they still messed up the order.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

mbrick said:


> ^ What he said. You are lucky to like what you received, but they still messed up the order.


I left overall positive feedback but did make a note about the 3k frame instead of the 12k.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

storz said:


> I left overall positive feedback but did make a note about the 3k frame instead of the 12k.


I didn't leave any feedback till I got mine built up. I wanted to make sure it wasn't going to fall apart the first time I hit a bump. Same with all the other parts I bought.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Did you guys just install the your headset and bottom bracket or did you take the frame to a shop to have the surfaces "finished" first?


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

storz said:


> Did you guys just install the your headset and bottom bracket or did you take the frame to a shop to have the surfaces "finished" first?


You should always have a frame chased and faced prior to headset and bottom bracket installation. Some manufacturers do it prior to shipping though.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Just installed. But, It would probably be a good idea to clean the headset seat, If you can. My Cane Creek headset wouldn't press in all the way, by just a fraction of a mm. It has always kinda bothered me. I didn't think about cleaning it up, because it has different angles to it. I wonder if someone makes a tool to do that?


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

sandmangts said:


> You should always have a frame chased and faced prior to headset and bottom bracket installation. Some manufacturers do it prior to shipping though.


Thanks :thumbsup:


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

storz said:


> Did you guys just install the your headset and bottom bracket or did you take the frame to a shop to have the surfaces "finished" first?


Is it carbon or aluminum there? It may look like carbon but people said it is actually aluminum. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Yeah, and did you hear on the news today how they are developing aircraft carriers and fighter jets. They want an offensive military instead of a defensive one. And we are making China rich, so they can kick our ass in the future.


It is a long topic to discuss. China like America is a country full of contradictions. You can only blame the politicians in Washington... Starting with Reagan who pilfered Social Security and deregulated everything, Bush, Clinton who destroyed property market, another Bush and finally Obama who is a champagne socialist... Most likely I am going to have to go back to Europe but it is the same bollocks.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> Is it carbon or aluminum there? It may look like carbon but people said it is actually aluminum. Can anyone confirm?


There is an aluminum insert in the headtube for the bearings/headset to ride in.

Any of you guys using the cheapie Neco headset that came with the bike or is everyone using one of the Cane Creek or FSA headsets?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

storz said:


> There is an aluminum insert in the headtube for the bearings/headset to ride in.
> 
> Any of you guys using the cheapie Neco headset that came with the bike or is everyone using one of the Cane Creek or FSA headsets?


I used Cane creak zs-3 threadless last time. This time I will be using Ritchey Logic WCS threadless. I need to grab few part from Home Depot to build my ghetto press. Also, are you installing headset "dry" or using any special grease/lube for carbon?

Cheers!:thumbsup:


----------



## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

looks really nice, damn it thats my 3k frame lol

Acutally they refunded me $40 so i am happy.

My BB is faced and chased already. yours does not look like it has been done

I am going to try the Neco headset, why not, if it sucks i'll change it out later


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> looks really nice, damn it thats my 3k frame lol
> 
> Acutally they refunded me $40 so i am happy.
> 
> ...


I do not think it sucks. It is a bit heavy though.


----------



## lupohki (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm a newb looking to put together a bike. How do the parts below compare to the Jenson XT package with wheels (link below)? Are there usually model year clearance deals? Because I think I read the 2012 Shimano parts are coming out this summer? Thanks!

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/build_kit/customize.aspx?bk=58



vitiate said:


> Here's what I would spec:
> 
> Disc Brakes: Hygia (Search MTBR for info) $190
> 9 Spd Rear Cassette: Shimano XT (Jensonusa: $70)
> ...


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

lupohki said:


> I'm a newb looking to put together a bike. How do the parts below compare to the Jenson XT package with wheels (link below)? Are there usually model year clearance deals? Because I think I read the 2012 Shimano parts are coming out this summer? Thanks!
> 
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/build_kit/customize.aspx?bk=58


I would not bother with those wheels at all. Do not be cheap with wheelsets. I am saying you should spend $700 on them Personally I like Shimano cranksets (Lx is quite good, I have 3 spare ones at home), front derailleurs and brakes. Otherwise I use SRAM. Chainreaction has Fulcrum Red Metal 5 for dirt cheap.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Link for above wheels: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42568

Good price.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

If I am going to use a Cane Creek headset do I need to remove the headset cups that come in the frame first and install the Cane Creek cups, or will the Cane Creek work with whats in there?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

storz said:


> If I am going to use a Cane Creek headset do I need to remove the headset cups that come in the frame first and install the Cane Creek cups, or will the Cane Creek work with whats in there?


Yes. You need to use Cane Creek cups. It is quite easy to remove old ones.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

mbrick said:


> Link for above wheels: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42568
> 
> Good price.


Actually you can get them for $212 with a price match. I bought them but then I found Reynolds Canyon wheelset for $299 and I could not resist the temptation.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> Yes. You need to use Cane Creek cups. It is quite easy to remove old ones.


Thanks


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

storz said:


> Thanks


If the other cup was the same taper and positioning for the taper it would be fine. But it's hard to be sure, especially when it's already in the bike making it harder to measure. So using the cane creek part is probably a good idea. I bet it's a better part anyway.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

go my crank set, wheels and brakes today  Just need one more box and i can start putting her together. All i could do today was put the discs on the wheels


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## 2clue (Jun 9, 2007)

These bikes are looking very sick, I'm definitely looking at getting one of these for my next bike.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

got all my parts but i ordered the wrong BB install tool bah!
how the hell did i do that, DOH. Gotta see if i can get one locally tommorow


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> got all my parts but i ordered the wrong BB install tool bah!
> how the hell did i do that, DOH. Gotta see if i can get one locally tommorow


What crankset are you going to use?


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

Race Face Desus XC


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## Cajun Rich (Mar 6, 2010)

Who is the seller of these bikes on eBay? Would you purchase a cyclecross framers them? I think that would be a killer commuter.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Cajun Rich said:


> Who is the seller of these bikes on eBay? Would you purchase a cyclecross framers them? I think that would be a killer commuter.


I bought mine from e_baygoods

China to my doorstep in 9 days


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Just got off the phone with the shop that is doing the face and chase on my frame. I guess the BB threads were good, but the cups were pretty crooked and required a fair bit of facing/cutting.

My headset is as mess, as you can see in the pictures, the cups are unfortunately epoxyed into the frame so removing them is out of the question, they are going to cut them with the Park tool designed for these type headsets. It is filled with paint and what looks like some sort of glue.

Also had them weigh it on their digital bike scale

2.6875 lbs


----------



## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

storz said:


> Just got off the phone with the shop that is doing the face and chase on my frame. I guess the BB threads were good, but the cups were pretty crooked and required a fair bit of facing/cutting.
> 
> My headset is as mess, as you can see in the pictures, the cups are unfortunately epoxyed into the frame so removing them is out of the question, they are going to cut them with the Park tool designed for these type headsets. It is filled with paint and what looks like some sort of glue.
> 
> ...


I have the same frame as you and yeah, when I tried to get my Race Face BB cups installed they went in crooked. Got the frame chased/faced and the cups went right in, smooth.

As for the head tube, I just dropped in my Cane Creek bearings and they fit perfectly. Didn't need to press/chase/face anything. Everything sits flush for me.

Several good rides including Sea Otter on it, and even through some nice rock gardens and minor jumps.. no problems. I love this frame. It's so stiff in all the right places but I am nowhere near as rattled by then end of a ride as I was when I had an aluminum hardtail.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vaelin said:


> I have the same frame as you and yeah, when I tried to get my Race Face BB cups installed they went in crooked. Got the frame chased/faced and the cups went right in, smooth.
> 
> As for the head tube, I just dropped in my Cane Creek bearings and they fit perfectly. Didn't need to press/chase/face anything. Everything sits flush for me.
> 
> Several good rides including Sea Otter on it, and even through some nice rock gardens and minor jumps.. no problems. I love this frame. It's so stiff in all the right places but I am nowhere near as rattled by then end of a ride as I was when I had an aluminum hardtail.


Pics or it did not happen.:thumbsup: What is your height and effective and real top tube length?


----------



## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

PatrickK said:


> Pics or it did not happen.:thumbsup: What is your height and effective and real top tube length?


Pics of what? The bike? I posted it here a few weeks ago:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7940996&postcount=561

Sea Otter? Brightroom has 'em.. I was bib 98 in the Gran Fondo. No laughing at the fat dude.

I haven't sat and measured everything, but the bike fits me like a glove. Didn't take me more than a mile on the trail to get it dialed and feeling good.

I'm 5'7", wear 30" inseam pants, I used 1 spacer with the headset, a 90mm stem, 0 deg rise (I think), wide Easton flat bars, and the EC70 setback post.

Changes since the pic: I swapped to a Joplin R post and the tires to Crossmark USTs. Added a pound, but you know what, I feel WAY more confident going down some descents when I can get my seat out of the way.. and QR with a carbon frame + carbon post is just bad.


----------



## menusk (Jun 27, 2009)

you have a link to the headset vaelin? i need to buy one also


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vaelin said:


> Pics of what? The bike? I posted it here a few weeks ago:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7940996&postcount=561
> 
> ...


Medium frame?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vaelin said:


> Pics of what? The bike? I posted it here a few weeks ago:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7940996&postcount=561
> 
> ...


Bike in action. Thank you for the info. I always ride big frames and feel a little bit stretched. It would be quite interesting to try a smaller frame this time.


----------



## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Medium frame?


17".


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vaelin said:


> 17".


Mine is an 18". I'm using a 100mm stem and a 25mm setback post. I'm 5'9" and it fits me like a glove.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

Got at it tonight 

went for a walk with the wife and dog, checked the mail, and SWEEET my headset spacers and seat clamp.
Tommorow night i should have my BB tool, cut the headset, "wire" it up and ride it, hopefully


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I'd be really careful with the vise. In fact, I wouldn't do that.


----------



## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I'd be really careful with the vise. In fact, I wouldn't do that.


i know. it was not clamped down, more just holding it there. the vise is bigger than the frame so the frame was just leaning on the vise i guess you could say


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Looking good!


----------



## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

thanks !
Crank set is on now, tommorow it should be done, but i have no pedals yet !!! 
went to a local bike shop to pickup the BB tool, lifted up some $2000 bikes when nobody was looking, and mine is waaaay lighter


----------



## mel d (May 7, 2011)

hi , looking into new frame and these do look nice and very attractive price just wondering if anyones heard of breakages/cracks ?


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

mel d said:


> hi , looking into new frame and these do look nice and very attractive price just wondering if anyones heard of breakages/cracks ?


I haven't heard of any yet.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Here's your source for busted carbon. Most of the times it looks to be from a crash: http://www.bustedcarbon.com/


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

mbrick said:


> Here's your source for busted carbon. Most of the times it looks to be from a crash: http://www.bustedcarbon.com/


Wow:eekster:


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mbrick said:


> Here's your source for busted carbon. Most of the times it looks to be from a crash: http://www.bustedcarbon.com/


It looks like someone has something against carbon fiber. I'm shocked to see companies in the bike biz with ads on the site. It's not a positive site for the carbon fiber bike industry. I will try not to buy from companies that advertise on that site.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

mbrick said:


> Here's your source for busted carbon. Most of the times it looks to be from a crash: http://www.bustedcarbon.com/


That is why you buy a mountain bike frame and build a road bike around it. Be it aluminum, titanium, steel or carbon road bike I never owned and will never buy one.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

I went through and added weights to my buildsheet, and if the pricepoint/manufactorers estimates are remotely close she is sitting at 22.47lbs right now. My wheel set is a heafty 2107grams (4.6lbs) so there is room for improvment in the future for sure. Will be interesting to see how accurate it is when I get it all built up


----------



## mel d (May 7, 2011)

alot of big name companies there and " 50 into parked car ", "forgot bike was still on roof rack " surely they would have even broke a steel frame.
so no one has heard of the Chinese frames cracking then ?


----------



## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

You guys riding around with that 450 gram (420g cut) carbon fork with no weight limit, you dont have any kind of worries it could break?

It looks like the Ritchey fork, but considering the niner 29" carbon fok have rider weight limit, detailed instruction etc this 420 g fork seems scary IMHO.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

mel d said:


> alot of big name companies there and " 50 into parked car ", "forgot bike was still on roof rack " surely they would have even broke a steel frame.
> so no one has heard of the Chinese frames cracking then ?


I researched as much as I could online about these frames and haven't heard anything about it. Keep in mind a lot of the big name carbon frames are made in China as well.

The not-so-sublte bike snobbery hints I got at my local bike shop when I had the frame chased and faced were pretty funny.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

erkan said:


> You guys riding around with that 450 gram (420g cut) carbon fork with no weight limit, you dont have any kind of worries it could break?
> 
> It looks like the Ritchey fork, but considering the niner 29" carbon fok have rider weight limit, detailed instruction etc this 420 g fork seems scary IMHO.


I will be using this fork for road biking, not mountain. I am 6'1" @ 162 pounds so no worries. I would not use it for any rough trails nor jumping on yor bike.

Check this review out.

http://www.dionridesbikes.com/2010/09/carbon-fiber-trigon-fork-6-month-review.html

EDIT:

It seems a Trigon fork is really a great product.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37198&start=15


----------



## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> I went through and added weights to my buildsheet, and if the pricepoint/manufactorers estimates are remotely close she is sitting at 22.47lbs right now. My wheel set is a heafty 2107grams (4.6lbs) so there is room for improvment in the future for sure. Will be interesting to see how accurate it is when I get it all built up


what wheels did you end up with? Mine wiegh abotut he same and i regret it a little. But i got them new with tires and QRs for $150. I am also 230lbs so i am over the limit for most lightweight wheels


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> It looks like someone has something against carbon fiber. I'm shocked to see companies in the bike biz with ads on the site. It's not a positive site for the carbon fiber bike industry. I will try not to buy from companies that advertise on that site.


Not at all! I currently ride a carbon road bike. I just remembered the site so I posted it up since he was asking about broken carbon.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> what wheels did you end up with? Mine wiegh abotut he same and i regret it a little. But i got them new with tires and QRs for $150. I am also 230lbs so i am over the limit for most lightweight wheels


Veulta Zerolite Pro from www.bikeisland.com

150 bucks shipped and they look pretty good, cartridge bearings

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1440


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

update pictures!


----------



## orion_134 (Sep 2, 2010)

You are going to get terrible traction like that...but at least you won't pinch-flat.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

orion_134 said:


> You are going to get terrible traction like that...but at least you won't pinch-flat.


Haha no kidding, my front end kept washing out and I got no bite on climbs, anu suggestions


----------



## orion_134 (Sep 2, 2010)

storz said:


> Haha no kidding, my front end kept washing out and I got no bite on climbs, anu suggestions


29er!


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

orion_134 said:


> 29er!


Please...... I have two 29er... It is all about a proper setup. All my bikes have very slack angles.


----------



## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Did I order the incorrect seat clamp? Diameter is correct, but it doesn't cover the entire seat clamp area...


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

That should work, but turn it 180 degrees if you are using a carbon post. I decided to use a double clamp for my carbon frame and carbon post.


----------



## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*It's fine*



storz said:


> Did I order the incorrect seat clamp? Diameter is correct, but it doesn't cover the entire seat clamp area...


Mine did the same, it's just because they're left a larger than required space between the Al insert and where the carbon starts


----------



## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*Graphics*

OK guys, lots of us have now got these great carbon framed bikes that we all seem to love (me included). The one thing that still needs work for me is the look of the finished bike, in plain carbon it just looks a little under-done.

Given cut vinyl graphics are dirt cheap these days it's really just a case of how creative you are. What great ideas have people come up with or done for giving these carbon frames the finishing touch? I've struggled beyond emulating factory type graphics (big name on downtube, little one on top top). Something like this has potential:









Who's going to be the first to do a flame-job on theirs


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Highdelll designed some graphics for me, I just need to have them printed out. I came up with the company name and the name of the model and a cool head badge design. And it all ties in with the carbon theme.


----------



## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

I gotta question.
Ill be buying one of these frames soon (i know i said that like on pg4 or something):skep: 

I want a white bike, so id have to paint the frame. Is this a good idea? 
Like if you crack/ fracture the frame, the new layer of paint may cover it up? And id never know till its to late.
Or a crack may only be on the paint and not under and ill freak out over nothing.
Ive only had exp in painting metal frames.... Am i thinking to much cos its carbon?

Chances are ill be getting a Panel Beater friend to paint, and the paint will be quite thick.
( I want white/java pearl from the volvo c30, so nice)

So anyone got any feed back/ knowledge on this subject ?


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> Veulta Zerolite Pro from www.bikeisland.com
> 
> 150 bucks shipped and they look pretty good, cartridge bearings
> 
> http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1440


awosme, it;s looking good!! :thumbsup:

I am almsot done, jsut been sick the last few days


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ Looks great! Can't wait to hear a ride report


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> ^^ Looks great! Can't wait to hear a ride report


thanks, me too lol. My pedals still have not gotten here yet! 
Also a little dissapointed in the wheels. from the pics when i bought them, the spokes looked a copper gold color, which would have looked awsome. Ah well.

i went to a bike shop to get a couple small parts, and my wife found a bike she liked, so for those of you building the bike, add in $500 to the budget, becuase when she wants a new bike it;s not like you can say no


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

Sorry, not a fan of the looks of carbon frame...looks "bulky", although I was considering it for my custom bike project. I ended up getting a Titanium frame from China on eBay for about $900 including postage. This way I know it's not going to **** on me while Im zooming downhill in a forest. I don't think I can trust a carbon frame like that. You can *never* spend enough on your own safety, but also have to know when thinking about safety is turning into paranoia.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

petrjanda said:


> Sorry, not a fan of the looks of carbon frame.


This is a thread about carbon bikes. That would be kinda like looking at Playboy Magazine and writing to the magazine, complaining that you don't like to look at naked women, because you're gay.


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> This is a thread about carbon bikes. That would be kinda like looking at Playboy Magazine and writing to the magazine, complaining that you don't like to look at naked women, because you're gay.


I'm struggling to find a relationship between a gay man(not that I'm gay) looking at Playboy and a thread about experience a person or people has with eBay carbon frames, but I simply can't, at least not using some twisted logic. It would sort of make sense if you said instead "a straight man looking at a Playboy lady that he doesn't particularly like" in which case it's clearly understandable to make such comment.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

It's just not the thread to be bashing carbon fiber. It's a thread where people want to learn about Ebay carbon fiber frames.


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> It's just not the thread to be bashing carbon fiber. It's a thread where people want to learn about Ebay carbon fiber frames.


I'm not bashing carbon fiber or carbon frames. I just stated why I chose not to go with an MTB eBay carbon frame which is what I initially was gonna go with for my custom bike project, but changed my mind due to a safety concern. Sorry to hurt your feelings and others around here...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

It takes a lot more then that to hurt my feelings.


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

Good.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

petrjanda said:


> I'm not bashing carbon fiber or carbon frames. I just stated why I chose not to go with an MTB eBay carbon frame which is what I initially was gonna go with for my custom bike project, but changed my mind due to a safety concern. Sorry to hurt your feelings and others around here...


You sound like another troll.:skep:


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> It's just not the thread to be bashing carbon fiber. It's a thread where people want to learn about Ebay carbon fiber frames.


I received my frame from DengFu today. It weighs 1300g, matte black. I will post some pics on Friday. I still need to get my new wheels Fulcrum Red Metal 3.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

petrjanda said:


> due to a safety concern.


Ever think to swap your Avid CR carbon brakes out, I mean, for safety concerns? 

Of course not, because the failure rate is very low, just like these and other carbon frames.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> I received my frame from DengFu today. It weighs 1300g, matte black. I will post some pics on Friday. I still need to get my new wheels Fulcrum Red Metal 3.


Right on! :thumbsup:


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

vitiate said:


> Ever think to swap your Avid CR carbon brakes out, I mean, for safety concerns?
> 
> Of course not, because the failure rate is very low, just like these and other carbon frames.


With a slight difference, chances are that my CR breaks won't break both at the same time. The chance that a cheap carbon frame will break, suddenly and possibly with deadly consequences, is a lot higher than both breaks at the same time.

Like I said, I'm not against carbon fiber in general, I just would not trust a cheap carbon frame with my life, and that's all there is to it.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*I have to bite..*

Given the difficulty in machining and welding titanium I'd think a chinese Ti frame would be far more likely to fail catastophically than Carbon. Carbon has an unfair reputation for failing rapidly whereas it will tend to crack and splinter before failing. Aluminium and to a lesser extent Ti on the other hand really can get nasty when it fails.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

petrjanda said:


> Like I said, I'm not against carbon fiber in general, I just would not trust a cheap carbon frame with my life, and that's all there is to it.


Then move on!


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

petrjanda said:


> Sorry, not a fan of the looks of carbon frame...looks "bulky", although I was considering it for my custom bike project. I ended up getting a Titanium frame from China on eBay for about $900 including postage. This way I know it's not going to **** on me while Im zooming downhill in a forest. I don't think I can trust a carbon frame like that. You can *never* spend enough on your own safety, but also have to know when thinking about safety is turning into paranoia.


You don't know much about frame materials do you. Carbon is stronger than titanium. Also the welding process for titanium requires very specific conditions, and if not done properly results in a frame that will fall apart or crack. Perhaps you should look at the history of titanium frames. Even some name brand frames have had quite some quality problems in the past. Clark Kent frames come to mind.

And if you can never spend enough for your safety, why did you cheap out and buy a cheap titanium frame from China.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Ha Ha*



ljsmith said:


> why did you cheap out and buy a cheap titanium frame from China.


Better question is why is a $900 chinese Ti frame cheap?
Both Merlin Ti frames I've had were less than that.

Carbon has been used as a frame material for almost 40 years. Anyone that is worried about its performance is just plain ignorant.


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## lawfarm (May 14, 2010)

storz said:


> Haha no kidding, my front end kept washing out and I got no bite on climbs, anu suggestions


Try going tubeless, and dropping your pressure a bit.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

shoryuken said:


> I gotta question.
> Ill be buying one of these frames soon (i know i said that like on pg4 or something):skep:
> 
> I want a white bike, so id have to paint the frame. Is this a good idea?
> ...


Some of these sellers will custom paint the bike if you ask for an additional charge. Do not bother painting the frame unless you can use high quality paints, rattlecan stuff won't hold up. Also keep in mind that because it is a composite it will have some flex in it, so paint will tend to crack and flake over time, which is what happened to my Trek 5200. Also thick paint usually isn't ideal because it tends to flake off.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

there needs to be a lot of flex agent in the paint, i forget the technical term now. it's like painting a polyurethane bumper, if you dont mix in flex agent, and the bumper takes a minor hit, the pait whill crack off, but the bumper will be fine

I might get mine painted over the winter, or better yet go vinyl

Got my pedals, so hopefully i can finish off the bike tonight !


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## itsmillertime (May 14, 2011)

Considering buying one of these frames and registered just to see pics. Any made one in a 19-21 size without v-brake bosses and thru frame cable routing?


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

itsmillertime said:


> Considering buying one of these frames and registered just to see pics. Any made one in a 19-21 size without v-brake bosses and thru frame cable routing?


Mine has no V-brake bosses, and the cables route on the top tube. Bought from e_baygoods


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

zc911 said:


> there needs to be a lot of flex agent in the paint, i forget the technical term now. it's like painting a polyurethane bumper, if you dont mix in flex agent, and the bumper takes a minor hit, the pait whill crack off, but the bumper will be fine
> 
> I might get mine painted over the winter, or better yet go vinyl
> 
> Got my pedals, so hopefully i can finish off the bike tonight !


There needs to be very little flex in the paint. These frames don't flex like a car bumper in an accident. Any quality paint will have enough flex in it. The prep is the important part.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

*This is my Dengfu carbon frame*

It weighs 1300g and it is size 19. It is going to be a a rigid build with Trigon and Schwalbe Sammy slick tyre (I had to buy them @ wiggle.co.uk). It was supposed to weigh 490 instead of 520g.:skep: I will go tubeless ones I find suitable tyres. I am aiming for less than 20 pounds. I am still waiting for my wheels, slx and few odds and ends. I have also uploaded a picture of our other carbon bikes.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

PatrickK said:


> It weighs 1300g and it is size 19...


FM016 or 038? Would you mind adding a photo that's zoomed out a bit showing the whole frame?


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## itsmillertime (May 14, 2011)

Where's the best place to buy a FM038? I'm pretty sure that's the one I will be getting.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

vitiate said:


> FM016 or 038? Would you mind adding a photo that's zoomed out a bit showing the whole frame?


It is FM016. I am sorry I did not provide this info. It took less than 20 days to get the fame delivered to NY. I will take more pics tomorrow.


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## bobvonken (Apr 18, 2011)

*Question on Standover Height*

Been watching this thread for a while and I'm about to build a carbon bike - so here is the first of what will most likely be many questions. Looking at buying an HF-053 29er frame from Jenny at HongFu (pic below). I've exchanged a few e-mails with her and she sent me the frame geometry, but I still have one measurement that I can't seem to get - standover height. This is not on the geometry sheet, but I was wondering if there is some way of calculating it just using the frame geometry measurements and wheel/tire size. All of the other measurements for that frame seem to fit me pretty well, but because I'm a short rider (5' 7") - the standover height is pretty important to me. Any suggestions?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

bobvonken said:


> Been watching this thread for a while and I'm about to build a carbon bike - so here is the first of what will most likely be many questions. Looking at buying an HF-053 29er frame from Jenny at HongFu (pic below). I've exchanged a few e-mails with her and she sent me the frame geometry, but I still have one measurement that I can't seem to get - standover height. This is not on the geometry sheet, but I was wondering if there is some way of calculating it just using the frame geometry measurements and wheel/tire size. All of the other measurements for that frame seem to fit me pretty well, but because I'm a short rider (5' 7") - the standover height is pretty important to me. Any suggestions?


The problem with standover height is that it is dependent on fork length, the size of tires you are using, the slope of the top tube, bottom bracket height, bottom bracket drop and seat tube length. It would be very hard to calculate.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bobvonken said:


> Any suggestions?


Yeah, get a frame that fits you and don't worry about it. They all have top tubes, so it's not like you can get around that.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Ordered the final pieces for my build yesterday, she'll be on the trail next weekend


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## itsmillertime (May 14, 2011)

Zehd said:


> FM038 Geo...


According to the fit guide here: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/z...&ANSWER=8&SITE.CODE=MTB&STEP=9&FC_ANSWER_8=74

I need a virtual top tube length of 22.9 - 23.3 inches or 581.66 - 591.82 millimeters. The 18" frame has a virtual top tube length of 595.1 mm. I would assume I needed at least a 19 or 20" bike as I'm currently riding a 17" Specialized Comp M2 and my feet hit the front tire/ knees hit handlebar when turning. But it's also my first mountain bike so what do I know, other than I probably shouldn't be trying to build one from scratch.


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## bobvonken (Apr 18, 2011)

> The problem with standover height is that it is dependent on fork length, the size of tires you are using, the slope of the top tube, bottom bracket height, bottom bracket drop and seat tube length. It would be very hard to calculate.


ljsmith - good point, I just wondered if anyone had ever come up with a way to calculate that - bearing in mind the dependent measurements you mentioned, including wheel size.

It's particularly important when you're close between two frame sizes regarding fit (based on their frame geometry), and when your making a blind purchase of a frame you've never seen or stood over as a built up bike.

For some people it must be a pretty cut and dried thing, I guess. For those of us with testicles it can be bit more important...

By the way, cracking advice Shawn - I'll buy "a frame that fits me", not worry about it, and if I build up a bike that I can't even stand over, I'll kick myself for not at least wondering if there's a way that I could have figured that out ahead of time.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

itsmillertime said:


> According to the fit guide here: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/z...&ANSWER=8&SITE.CODE=MTB&STEP=9&FC_ANSWER_8=74
> 
> I need a virtual top tube length of 22.9 - 23.3 inches or 581.66 - 591.82 millimeters. The 18" frame has a virtual top tube length of 595.1 mm. I would assume I needed at least a 19 or 20" bike as I'm currently riding a 17" Specialized Comp M2 and my feet hit the front tire/ knees hit handlebar when turning. But it's also my first mountain bike so what do I know, other than I probably shouldn't be trying to build one from scratch.


You can't compare two bikes based on their seat tube lengths. You need to compare their top tube lengths. Just because the bike you currently riding is a 17" does not mean it has a similar top tube length to the 18" frame you are looking at. The easiest thing to do is measure the Specialized's top tube length. If you feel like the fit calculator is wrong, you ought to remeasure and make sure you did it right. You also may want to test ride some bikes at the LBS that are a similar geometry to the frame you are looking at.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bobvonken said:


> By the way, cracking advice Shawn - I'll buy "a frame that fits me", not worry about it, and if I build up a bike that I can't even stand over, I'll kick myself for not at least wondering if there's a way that I could have figured that out ahead of time.


If you buy the correct size, you won't have a problem. These frames have a sloping top tube. Unless your proportions are way, and I mean way, way out or wack. In that case, then you need a girls bike or a frame built to fit your out of proportion body so you don't smash your precious nads. Millions of people buy HT bikes that fit them without having to worry about the standover height, as long as they buy the right size. Like I said, they all have a TT, so get over it. I am 5'9", and I have almost 6" of standover on my 18" frame. You are here asking for advise, try taking some of it.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> Some of these sellers will custom paint the bike if you ask for an additional charge. Do not bother painting the frame unless you can use high quality paints, rattlecan stuff won't hold up. Also keep in mind that because it is a composite it will have some flex in it, so paint will tend to crack and flake over time, which is what happened to my Trek 5200. Also thick paint usually isn't ideal because it tends to flake off.





zc911 said:


> there needs to be a lot of flex agent in the paint, i forget the technical term now. it's like painting a polyurethane bumper, if you dont mix in flex agent, and the bumper takes a minor hit, the pait whill crack off, but the bumper will be fine
> 
> I might get mine painted over the winter, or better yet go vinyl
> 
> Got my pedals, so hopefully i can finish off the bike tonight !





Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> There needs to be very little flex in the paint. These frames don't flex like a car bumper in an accident. Any quality paint will have enough flex in it. The prep is the important part.


Thanks guys for for input on the paint dealio.
Ill take to my painter friend and see what they know, ill bring up that carbon flexes etc.
but im sure because its car paint, it is quality and will have some flex.

I wont be buying for another month or so, the bike is an off project atm and already have a frame, but ill report back how everything goes with the paint.


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## ts8169 (Apr 6, 2009)

*Head tube length on 18" frame?*

For anyone who has an 18" size frame...... can you confirm the head tube length? I'm also tempted by these frames and am looking for size 18", 12K weave, V-Brake & Disk with a head tube length of 125mm or less (Old fork is cut too short). Their geometry diagrams list 120mm or 140mm for an 18" frame depending on where you look. Wondering if there's a typo on the 120mm.

Thanks


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ts8169 said:


> For anyone who has an 18" size frame...... can you confirm the head tube length? I'm also tempted by these frames and am looking for size 18", 12K weave, V-Brake & Disk with a head tube length of 125mm or less (Old fork is cut too short). Their geometry diagrams list 120mm or 140mm for an 18" frame depending on where you look. Wondering if there's a typo on the 120mm.
> 
> Thanks


If you remind me by PM, I will whip out the tape measure, when I get home tonight. It will be late though, about 9:30 Pacific time.


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## bobvonken (Apr 18, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If you buy the correct size, you won't have a problem. These frames have a sloping top tube. Unless your proportions are way, and I mean way, way out or wack. In that case, then you need a girls bike or a frame built to fit your out of proportion body so you don't smash your precious nads. Millions of people buy HT bikes that fit them without having to worry about the standover height, as long as they buy the right size. Like I said, they all have a TT, so get over it. I am 5'9", and I have almost 6" of standover on my 18" frame. You are here asking for advise, try taking some of it.


Shawn,

Agreed, I am here asking for advice - and I am all ears when it comes to good advice. However, if you re-read my original post, the gist of my question was regarding the calculation of standover height off of frame geometry and wheel size. You chose to quote my final line of "Any suggestions?" and reply with a snarky answer of "get a frame that fits you and don't worry about it". That wasn't good advice.

ljsmith had some articulate and informative comments concerning my inquiry, which was much appreciated. Your "advice" was crap, and was not appreciated. I don't need anyone to tell me to "buy a frame that fits me" and "get over it", what a ridiculous statement.

I recently went to a sponsored ride day here in the UK to check out all of the latest bikes from Trek, Giant, and Specialized. I must have stood over and ridden close to 10 bikes that were all technically my size and a good fit for me - and they couldn't have all been more different - even between different models from the same manufacturer.

So with that being said, I guess I am just one of those that must be hard to fit - if I wasn't then I never would have asked a question, I would have just ordered my frame like you did, knowing it would fit just fine...


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

bobvonken said:


> Shawn,
> 
> Agreed, I am here asking for advice - and I am all ears when it comes to good advice. However, if you re-read my original post, the gist of my question was regarding the calculation of standover height off of frame geometry and wheel size. You chose to quote my final line of "Any suggestions?" and reply with a snarky answer of "get a frame that fits you and don't worry about it". That wasn't good advice.
> 
> ...


Contrary to your experience I find Shawn's post very helpful. What do you expect? If you do not want to buy Chinese carbon, get one from on-one since you are in the UK. We do not have a solution to your problem. You should buy a bike from your LBS. Thank you.


----------



## bobvonken (Apr 18, 2011)

PatrickK said:


> Contrary to your experience I find Shawn's post very helpful. What do you expect? If you do not want to buy Chinese carbon, get one from on-one since you are in the UK. We do not have a solution to your problem. You should buy a bike from your LBS. Thank you.


Patrick, I do want to buy a Chinese carbon, which is why I'm on this forum in the first place. I'm just trying to get my head around whether I should go with a 15" or 16" frame (different sizes from different suppliers), or 16" 29er from HongFu. Thought that if I could come close to estimating the standover height it may be helpful in my decision. That's all I was trying to ask.

I have considerered going to check out On-One as it's not too far away, and if my LBS had something I wanted to buy, I would have done so ages ago. I'm not asking you to solve a problem for me - I'm just looking for advice before I order a frame for a bike I want to build.

And we are just going to have to disagree on this point - what you find very helpful about Shawn's post is beyond me. ljsmiths post was helpful - or at least informative. Being told to "buy a frame that fits" and "get over it" - yep, very helpful.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> Contrary to your experience I find Shawn's post very helpful. What do you expect? If you do not want to buy Chinese carbon, get one from on-one since you are in the UK. We do not have a solution to your problem. You should buy a bike from your LBS. Thank you.


He Just doesn't seem to understand, that if he buys a frame that fits him in the TT length, the standover will be ok. Again, unless he is way out of proportion. In that case, it's custom frame time. Even if you have no standover, it still should not be a problem. Back in the late '80's and early '90's a lot of bikes had sloping TT's that sloped the other way, where the TT at the seat tube was higher then it was at the HT. I never heard about people complaining about them back then. Here is my DB Arrival, no standover and it wasn't a problem.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> He Just doesn't seem to understand, that if he buys a frame that fits him in the TT length, the standover will be ok. Again, unless he is way out of proportion. In that case, it's custom frame time. Even if you have no standover, it still should not be a problem. Back in the late '80's and early '90's a lot of bikes had sloping TT's that sloped the other way, where the TT at the seat tube was higher then it was at the HT. I never heard about people complaining about them back then. Here is my DB Arrival, no standover and it wasn't a problem.


Keep in mind that he is looking at 29ers. Standover on a 29er, even on one with the correct top tube length, can often be lacking depending on the design. You are correct when it comes to 26ers, in most cases if your top tube fits then the standover should be fine. Yes you can ride a bike with no standover, as many of us did in the 80s and early 90s, but if I were given the choice I would prefer at least 3", it gives a little more room in case things go bad. It is better to ask questions and sweat the details before you spend your money, you know the old "measure twice, cut once" addage. It is always better to spend your time making sure you get exactly what you want, then to get something that is "close enough" and then regret it later.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yeah, but they all have tope tubes, they are all about the same, for the same size frame. Unless you can buy a frame without a TT, it's hard to get around that fact.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> He Just doesn't seem to understand, that if he buys a frame that fits him in the TT length, the standover will be ok. Again, unless he is way out of proportion. In that case, it's custom frame time. Even if you have no standover, it still should not be a problem. Back in the late '80's and early '90's a lot of bikes had sloping TT's that sloped the other way, where the TT at the seat tube was higher then it was at the HT. I never heard about people complaining about them back then. Here is my DB Arrival, no standover and it wasn't a problem.


Yes, I agree. I do not really understand his logic. All the info is available online. He can grab a a big piece of paper and basically draw a bike with fake wheels according to specs provided online. Personally, I jotted down all the measurements and compared that to all my existing bikes.

p.s. I am glad I bought 19 inches frame with 587 top tube.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Got mine together last night and did a short ride on some local trails. Already love this bike! The handling is quick, it climbs well and feels stable. Pictures and more detail to come.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> Got mine together last night and did a short ride on some local trails. Already love this bike! The handling is quick, it climbs well and feels stable. Pictures and more detail to come.


Awsome, damn it you beat me haha
Tonight i am going to get it going for sure


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Fin!


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

VERY VERY nice!

I got pissed off trying to get the rear and front rerailer setup, spent 2 hours messing with it. Called up the local bike shop, and he says $25 i'll set it up for you. So i am dropping it off at lunch today. $25 is a small price to pay to save a headache lol


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

zc911 said:


> VERY VERY nice!
> 
> I got pissed off trying to get the rear and front rerailer setup, spent 2 hours messing with it. Called up the local bike shop, and he says $25 i'll set it up for you. So i am dropping it off at lunch today. $25 is a small price to pay to save a headache lol


It is so easy.... It takes 10 minutes. Phillip is great.


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

wooot all done and did 10km yesterday on it. LOVE the remote lock out on the front shock. I love how the bike feels, a light bike just makes things easier
I noticed two things i need to change to make it perfect
1 - i need more air in my shock for my weight. 
2 - tires are too aggresive for hard pack ridding. somthing with less agressive tread would be MUCH better.
i'll post a pic later


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

zc911 said:


> wooot all done...i'll post a pic later


Looking forward to those pics :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

here she is


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

zc911 said:


> here she is


Looks great man congrats!! Just wait till you hit some single track with her, they ride like a dream :thumbsup:


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## samuelvincentvella (May 30, 2011)

Chaps,

First post here. This thread is about the best I have managed to find for proper first hand experience on these Chinese carbon frames, and I've spent all weekend and most of the bank holiday looking!

I'm looking for something very light and simple to take on road trips in the VW T3. We'll be going to Croatia in August so have to jump on this.

I know I am going to take the plunge on one soon, but just wondred if you wouldnt mind helping me with a couple of questions...?

DengFu are saying that the space between rear forks is 135mm. This should be OK for the Alfine 8 speed?

I'm also looking at the full suspension from from e_baygoods. I know, its not essential, just I'm still convalescing from a shattered ankle and could do with as little vibration as possible:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...tain_Bikes&hash=item3f096a0bc5#ht_2141wt_1141
Can anyone comment on the quality/durability?

Is the overall import from most that the sizes are coming up a little smaller than advertised?

Comments mucho appreciated in advance!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I would stay away from the EBay full suspension frames.


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## samuelvincentvella (May 30, 2011)

*Full sus carbon frame*

Do you know of an actual bad experience?

I thought any frame as developed as this is likely to simply be commissioned by a large western comp, so nothing to worry about?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

FS requires more then good carbon construction. It also requires good suspension design. I wouldn't buy a FS bike unless the design was proven to be a good design.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> FS requires more then good carbon construction. It also requires good suspension design. I wouldn't buy a FS bike unless the design was proven to be a good design.


I agree with Shawn on this one. I have yet to see anyone build one of these FS frames or give a review on one, so I would not buy one. I also am skeptical because the ones I see on ebay come with a Kind Shock, instead of a name brand shock. That just screams cheap. They also are around 5.5 lbs, which is around what most high end aluminum frames weigh, so really all you are getting is a bling factor with the CF frame. Its not like you can really notice CF ride quality on a FS bike.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> FS requires more then good carbon construction. It also requires good suspension design. I wouldn't buy a FS bike unless the design was proven to be a good design.


The other concern for me is whether you can buy replacement bearings/bushings when you wear out the linkages. If you can't refresh the bearings you're stuffed


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

samuelvincentvella said:


> Chaps,
> with a couple of questions...? DengFu are saying that the space between rear forks is 135mm. This should be OK for the Alfine 8 speed?


Yes, Alfine will fit in 135mm drop outs.

Tim


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Discodan said:


> The other concern for me is whether you can buy replacement bearings/bushings when you wear out the linkages. If you can't refresh the bearings you're stuffed


Finding replacment bearings should be the least of your worries. You can buy bearings from any industrial supply outfit, you just need to know the size (which can be easily measured). It's not like they are making custom bearings for these bike.

I would have the same reservations as MS Shawn, suspension design...


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## samuelvincentvella (May 30, 2011)

agree on the weight, its pretty heavy. Im inclined to think the design is probably an existing one somewhere, so is likely to be OK, but theres more to go wrong, and likely little support.

OK Dengfu hard tail it is...


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

storz said:


> Looks great man congrats!! Just wait till you hit some single track with her, they ride like a dream :thumbsup:


Thanks !

I;ve been getting more used to it and i like it more and more each time out 
Really glad i went with the 20inch frame! anyone 6ft ish that should be your choice


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

I got some new wheels for mine tonight, they are take offs from an 09 Epic Expert! Quite a bit lighter than the Veultas. The bike is noticeably more flick-able and light on its feet


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## zc911 (Apr 11, 2011)

thats hilarious i was just looking at pricepoint for lighter wheels lol


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

jmitchell13 said:


> Finding replacment bearings should be the least of your worries. You can buy bearings from any industrial supply outfit, you just need to know the size (which can be easily measured). It's not like they are making custom bearings for these bike.
> 
> I would have the same reservations as MS Shawn, suspension design...


Don't be so sure, if they're using bushings then there will be no standard sizes available


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

Hi!! I'm a new user from Brazil!!! I got this frame cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270743377778 yesteday. Do you know if can I use this headset? cgi.ebay.com/2010-Ritchey-WCS-Headset-10MM-1-1-8-Integrated-Headset-/270736003125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f091f9035

Thank you!!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Welcome!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

That's a smaller version of my frame. Good choice. I am using a Cane Creek ZS-3 headset. I'm not a fan of Ritchey components. In my opinion, they just slap their name on stuff already made and charge an arm and a testicle for it. Cane Creek is good stuff. Make sure the headset cups are faced first. Mine didn't want to press in evenly and all the way. My BB didn't need to be cleaned up at all. I would use some blue Loctight on the derailer hanger screw. It's hard to get tight and it come lose easily.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Most of these frames use Zero Stack headsets, not integrated. The Ritchey headset you linked is an integrated headset. The ad for the frame says "internal" which isn't very clear as to which type. I would contact the seller and ask what kind of headset you need, but more than likely you need a zero stack.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Or semi integreted?


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

So I've been riding / racing an 26" Access XCL hardtail. It's an alum. frame from Performance and has good aggressive XC geometry. Problem is, it beats me and my back up, especially on babyheads, but I love the way it climbs.

How is the comfort between a carbon / alum hardtail? Anyone have experience with this? I totally understand it's not going to have the cush of a FS bike, but will it take the edge off compared to Alum. hardtail?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yes it will, compared to your average Al HT.


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Here's my 20.6 lbs Ebay Carbon frame which I bought last year, June 2010.










Still waiting for my Paul's Chain Keeper, KCNC pulleys & XT rear shifter. I love this bike because it's so light and cheap!! Under $1700 for a 20 pounder bike.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Yes it will, compared to your average Al HT.


This one in particular is bonejarringly stiff. Do you feel a little give or absorption in the frame over the rough stuff? Is your frame confidence inspiring?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> This one in particular is bonejarringly stiff. Do you feel a little give or absorption in the frame over the rough stuff? Is your frame confidence inspiring?


Yes to both. But, I have a carbon post, fork, and a bar/stem combo. So there is a lot of carbon to absorb stuff.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

I've got carbon bar and post and run tubeless 26 psi f / 27 psi r. Between tubeless and full carbon frame I would hope to have a smoother ride.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

vitiate said:


> I've got carbon bar and post and run tubeless 26 psi f / 27 psi r. Between tubeless and full carbon frame I would hope to have a smoother ride.


It should be smoother. It will at least be as smooth as a HT can get. If it's not smooth enough, them you need FS. What kind of fork are you going to use?


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

I've a magura durin md80r. I don't expect FS cush, just have heard that carbon frames can take the edge off


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

They can. I think you'll like it. I know one thing that I remember from the past with my rigid Al bike, is that, back then my hands and arms would hurt and get numb from the pounding. That doesn't even come close to happening with my carbon bike.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

vitiate said:


> So I've been riding / racing an 26" Access XCL hardtail. It's an alum. frame from Performance and has good aggressive XC geometry. Problem is, it beats me and my back up, especially on babyheads, but I love the way it climbs.
> 
> How is the comfort between a carbon / alum hardtail? Anyone have experience with this? I totally understand it's not going to have the cush of a FS bike, but will it take the edge off compared to Alum. hardtail?


In my experience it smooths out the ride a bit, but if your hardtail beats up your back likely a carbon frame will also. This is why I used a thudbuster seatpost on mine. The weight penalty was about 1/2lb. but it actually made me faster preceisly because I was less beat up. I did try using a Cannondale carbon Save post from a Flash, which is supposed to have a small amount of travel, but it still was too rough for my back. I also realized that the extra half pound in the seatpost made no noticeable difference in how fast I was up hills at all.


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

ljsmith said:


> This is why I used a thudbuster seatpost on mine.


I've been considering and researching this. Do you use LT or ST?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I use the ST. I read a lot of reviews that the LT version was instrusive in that it had too much travel which would disrupt your pedal stroke. Some people also said that it tends to launch you off the seat when rebounding. The ST is great, you don't even notice it is there while riding. But your body will feel so much better at the end of a long ride, and you will have more energy.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Also really thinking of getting one of the ST models for mine


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

storz said:


> Also really thinking of getting one of the ST models for mine


I'm considering either the ST or the Suntour model. The suntour is ~$80 and I'm waiting to find out the weight...


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

Thank you guys! I got a CANE CREEK ZS-3 HEADSET!!!


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

*The perfect forks*

Hi Guys

I've found the perfect forks on ebay to match these frames. They're a full carbon DT Swiss XMC100 which would match my 3k frame perfectly but I'm already running SIDs so I can't really justify buying new forks just for the appearance and a slightly better ride and lockout :skep:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DT-Swiss-XMC100-carbon-fibre-forks-not-RockShox-SID-/160600975421?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Parts&hash=item256490683d


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

Hi Guys!

I'm choosing some parts to my new ebay carbon frame and I need some help... 
Can I use the XTR SL-M960 shifters with XT RD-M772 Rear derailleur? Both are 9 speed.

Thank you!!!!


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ggaiote said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> I'm choosing some parts to my new ebay carbon frame and I need some help...
> Can I use the XTR SL-M960 shifters with XT RD-M772 Rear derailleur? Both are 9 speed.
> ...


If they are both 9 speed then you can use them together.


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

Hi guys!!!

This is my setup! Just waiting delivery... More few weeks and I'll start to build my new toy!

- FULL CARBON MOUNTAIN BIKE FRAME 16.5
- CANE CREEK ZS-3 HEADSET
- OMNI RACER SEATPOST CLAMP
- RITCHEY PRO CARBON SEATPOST
- RITCHEY SUPER LOGIC UD CARBON FLAT HANDLEBAR
- RITCHEY WCS HANDLEBAR GRIP
- SELLE ITALIA SLR 09 GEL FLOW VANOX SADDLE
- SHIMANO XT M770 CASSETTE 11-32 T 9S
- SHIMANO XT M770FRONT DERAILLEUR TOP SWING MULTI CLAMP
- SHIMANO XT RD-M772 REAR DERAILLEUR SHADOW (LONG CAGE)
- SHIMANO XT FC-M770 CRANKSET 
- SHIMANO XT BR-M770 V-BRAKE 
- SHIMANO XTR M960 V-BRAKE/SHIFT LEVERS
- SHIMANO YUMEYA TITANIUM NITRIDE XTR 9 SPEED CHAIN
- CRANK BROS EGG BEATER 1 PEDALS
- VZAN EXTREME WHEELS
- MANITOU BLACK SUPER AIR 80MM FORK

Suggestions to improve this setup? All comments are wellcome! :thumbsup:


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

I tried to run a Paul's chain keeper on mine but the but the joint at the bottom bracket was too large to allow it to fit, hope you have better luck!

Still waiting for my Paul's Chain Keeper, KCNC pulleys & XT rear shifter. I love this bike because it's so light and cheap!! Under $1700 for a 20 pounder bike. [/QUOTE]


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

nick1000 said:


> I tried to run a Paul's chain keeper on mine but the but the joint at the bottom bracket was too large to allow it to fit, hope you have better luck!


Thanks! I have it and I'll install in sometime next week. We'll see how it goes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

You need to use the BB mount for the chain Keeper.


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Yeah, thats what I have.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

*teaser*

I should be done within few days or hours. In case I get bored with my rigid fork I have this sexy Manitou R7 MRD with MILO from Chainreaction sitting in a box.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Are you sleepin' with bike parts again?


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

FYI...

The Paul's Chain Keeper BB mount doesn't work. The lower tube is too thick and the chain keeper hits on it. I tried to flip it but the nuts hits the chain ring. No way around it... 

Any of you guys know which chain keeper would work on this frame? Thanks!


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## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

Tjay said:


> Any of you guys know which chain keeper would work on this frame? Thanks!


Here's an idea, but it's not ideal; I use a front derailleur as a chain keeper. Adjust it all the way down until it's just above the chain. Shim it out til it doesn't rub left to right. Works great for me, so far two years.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Tjay said:


> FYI...
> 
> The Paul's Chain Keeper BB mount doesn't work. The lower tube is too thick and the chain keeper hits on it. I tried to flip it but the nuts hits the chain ring. No way around it...
> 
> Any of you guys know which chain keeper would work on this frame? Thanks!


It's been discussed already.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Are you sleepin' with bike parts again?


Hehe, I cannot help it. My wife sleeps in other room during the week since she has to wake earlier. As long as I have my wife, computers and bikes I am happy.:thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

*Update!*

Another update. I put Michelin Wild Run'r 1.1 road tires on an extra wheelset that I had. Next, I picked up a FSA carbon crankset on Ebay for $75. HBC is making me a spyderless 34T red ring that should be here next week. At that time a KMC gold light 10 speed chain is going on. After that I think I'll call it done. I was going to put on an Aussie 38T cog, but I think I'll just use this for the street, so 11-34 should be fine.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Pretty close to pulling the trigger and I have read through this entire thread almost twice, along with the thread in the 29er forum (just for additional info). Anyone have any input/thoughts on this frame -- or the seller. I couldn't tell but it didn't look like anyone had this exact frame from all the pictures i've seen. The downtube seems to have more "swoop" to it than other frames I've seen.

Any input at all would be appreciated - I have messages a couple of people who've responded with good information, which I appreciate.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

qdawgg said:


> Pretty close to pulling the trigger and I have read through this entire thread almost twice, along with the thread in the 29er forum (just for additional info). Anyone have any input/thoughts on this frame -- or the seller. I couldn't tell but it didn't look like anyone had this exact frame from all the pictures i've seen. The downtube seems to have more "swoop" to it than other frames I've seen.
> 
> Any input at all would be appreciated - I have messages a couple of people who've responded with good information, which I appreciate.


You did not include a link to the frame.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Duh, sorry.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350467549597&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2036wt_1138


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wow, that's a great looking frame, looks like a Pivot. Great price too considering you get the bar, headset and clamp. Mine cane with nothing.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

qdawgg said:


> Duh, sorry.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350467549597&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2036wt_1138


As long as you can deal with bike snobs telling you your bike is going to break go for it!! I've got 150 miles on mine so far and totally love the ride, handling and climbing ability


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

storz said:


> As long as you can deal with bike snobs telling you your bike is going to break go for it!! I've got 150 miles on mine so far and totally love the ride, handling and climbing ability


Did you get the same bike? Or from the same ebay seller?


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Well I pulled the trigger last night and ordered that frame in a size 16. I'll post pics when it comes in. Ebay has the frame as "shipped" this morning - I doubt it actually has but I'll know soon enough. Don't expect pictures of a completed bike anytime soon  I just bought a new hardtail last year so I told the wifey I wouldn't drop a ton of money as soon as I get the bike. So unfortunately it will be a slow process of waiting for deals to pop up. 

--> Over the next few months if anyone sees any good deals on an 80/100mm fork send me PM. Looking for $600 - $700 fork at about 50% off. Those deals are around from time to time just a matter of finding them.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Ordered this too last night. Opinions - good deal? Good fork for the frame? Probably should have asked before ordering it but couldn't help myself.

http://www.blueskycycling.com/product/1696/39/Rock_Shox_Reba_RLT_Air_UTurn_Fork_OE_2010.htm


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Heard nothing but good things about the Reba, I am sure it'll be a good match for the carbon bike!


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

I never knew those reba's are that expensive. I thought they were the cheap versions of sid... Anyway, why not the lightweight sid? I think you can get the SID for the same price or maybe a little over.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Tjay said:


> I never knew those reba's are that expensive. I thought they were the cheap versions of sid... Anyway, why not the lightweight sid? I think you can get the SID for the same price or maybe a little over.


The Reba is pretty much as top of the line as it gets (msrp = $800 something). It has a little more adjustability than the SID. I was debating the two, among some other shocks as well. I've read that some of the real light forks (sub 3.5 lbs) can be a little squirrely on rocky/rooty terrain especially when cornering and that is a lot of the trails I have access too. I don't know if that is true on the SID but I thought for about $50 less, the Reba represented a better value.

Plus the $450 was a little above what I wanted to spend, so factoring that in the SID would have been pushing it a little more for potentially less value. Just my thought process, hopefully it'll be a good fork


----------



## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Yeah, I just didnt know they were that expensive. Also just an fyi... I think those forks are OE. If I'm not mistaken, it means Original Equipment which were taken from another bike. Still new and unused. I could be wrong though.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Tjay said:


> Yeah, I just didnt know they were that expensive. Also just an fyi... I think those forks are OE. If I'm not mistaken, it means Original Equipment which were taken from another bike. Still new and unused. I could be wrong though.


I actually called them about the OE part just to be safe and they said that the ones they have in-stock haven't been on a bike yet. So the steerer tube has not been cut and there are no marks installation marks on the fork. Still has the manuals just not the original box. I was worried about the steerer tube after I ordered it so I called them just in case.


----------



## 2clue (Jun 9, 2007)

qdawgg said:


> I actually called them about the OE part just to be safe and they said that the ones they have in-stock haven't been on a bike yet. So the steerer tube has not been cut and there are no marks installation marks on the fork. Still has the manuals just not the original box. I was worried about the steerer tube after I ordered it so I called them just in case.


Not all OE forks are cut, alot of times they litterally pack the brand new fork aside with the bike and it is up to the shop to cut and adjust the steerer.


----------



## pablobaq (Jun 23, 2011)

So has anybody had any problems with these frames? everybody sounds pretty pleased.
Plus, building your own bike makes it MORE fun!
If someone outhere has any bad feedback please share...


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## pablobaq (Jun 23, 2011)

*Hongu's Info*

Hi Siimot,

I've been reading this post for a while now and your bike frame and paint job is my favorite.
How much did you ended up paying for it? How much for the paint? Do you have Hongfu's contact info?

Thanks!
P.


----------



## mel d (May 7, 2011)

Think im gonna try this 1 seems to have a nice ttube, and no vbrake mounts. 
cant post links .	FR-116 Full Carbon Mountain Bike MTB Frame 19" from carbon bicycle.


----------



## MichaelinOsaka (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi,

Reborn cycling nut.. living in Osaka, Japan. I just got back into cycling.. after about 9 years off. 

Just found about Chinese Carbon frames.. I 'm very serious about picking one up. I read all 18 pages of this thread! 

I recently built up a black Surly Long Haul Trucker for my commute which is about an hour and a quarter each way....Rain or Shine I tricked it out with some of the best parts and gear for commuting and didn't care much about the price or the weight. Hell, the front dynamo hub,and the light cost more than a Chinese carbon frame. Also.. the weight of the Brooks Saddle probably comes close to the weight of the carbon frame. I'm sure my Surly weighs over 35 pounds and even more when I add my work stuff, change of clothes that are in the pannier bag.

My current mountain bike is a Trek 8500 hard tail. It must be at least 12 years old. I built it up with all XT.. including first generation V brakes which came from an earlier bike. It doesn't have a rear disc brake.. I recently put on a Manitou R7 w/ V brake bosses.. which I am liking. The problem with the Trek that I have... is that it is in dire need of a paint job.. I have to keep it stored in outside in a covered bicycle rack at my condominium.. no way can I keep it indoors... space here is pretty tight. To get the Trek painted locally.. would be 30,000 yen. Which is about the same price of a Chinese Carbon frame. 

What draws me is the price and the fact I can use my old V brakes and wheels. If I go MTN biking more than once a month.. I will spring for new wheels and disc. Hopefully.. I can put it together this fall. 

Keep the pictures coming.. they are good inspiration for me.

--Michael


----------



## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Well here it is. Ordered from ebay --> e_baygoods on 6/19 and it arrived 6/30. The listing I bought was for a frame and handlebar for $300 + $70 shipping, so $370 total  I wasn't too sure about the handlebar, it didn't look that exciting in the picture but now that I have it it's a really cool looking handlebar. I am super busy the next couple of days so I just have the one picture but I will try to post more pictures asap. 

It will be awhile before I get this built up since I don't have all the cash to buy everything now. I did just buy a new Reba RLT U-turn fork and new sram x0 rear derailleur and shifters. My next step is a wheelset and/or brakes. I would appreciate any suggestions on a decent wheelset in the $300 - $400 (at the most) area. I've been really tempted to buy the Neuvation wheelset for $100 with the aero spokes but only 20 spokes on the rims makes me a little nervous.


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

qdawgg said:


> Well here it is...


NICE frame! If you get a chance to weigh it, please post it up. For that price, you might be able to find a deal on stans wheels if you are patient, or get a xt hubs with mavic xc717. I've been running that for two years and it's been good to me. Substitute hope hubs to save weight.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

qdawgg said:


> I would appreciate any suggestions on a decent wheelset in the $300 - $400 (at the most) area. I've been really tempted to buy the Neuvation wheelset for $100 with the aero spokes but only 20 spokes on the rims makes me a little nervous.


A great wheelset for a great price is the Vuelta XRP Team SL wheels. These wheels are very light and durable and are $269 shipped from bike island. I have had two sets and absolutely think they are great. The only thing I don't like is that the freewheel is a little louder than higher end hubs.

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=586


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

ljsmith said:


> A great wheelset for a great price is the Vuelta XRP Team SL wheels. These wheels are very light and durable and are $269 shipped from bike island. I have had two sets and absolutely think they are great. The only thing I don't like is that the freewheel is a little louder than higher end hubs.
> 
> http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=586


You are using these? If so, how long have you been using them? Are the weights accurate?
How is the build, spoke tension, wheels are true etc? Have you tried running them tubeless? TIA


----------



## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

qdawgg said:


> Well here it is. Ordered from ebay --> e_baygoods on 6/19 and it arrived 6/30. The listing I bought was for a frame and handlebar for $300 + $70 shipping, so $370 total  I wasn't too sure about the handlebar, it didn't look that exciting in the picture but now that I have it it's a really cool looking handlebar. I am super busy the next couple of days so I just have the one picture but I will try to post more pictures asap.
> 
> It will be awhile before I get this built up since I don't have all the cash to buy everything now. I did just buy a new Reba RLT U-turn fork and new sram x0 rear derailleur and shifters. My next step is a wheelset and/or brakes. I would appreciate any suggestions on a decent wheelset in the $300 - $400 (at the most) area. I've been really tempted to buy the Neuvation wheelset for $100 with the aero spokes but only 20 spokes on the rims makes me a little nervous.


Nice !!!!!!!!!!!
Man I would love to see that beefy design in a 29er. I know it would be about 3.5 lbs (I imagine that one comes in about right at 3lbs) but it would absorb shock like crazy and climb like a scalded monkey. 
......and around around 300 bucks in a UD matte finish........next year or maybe 2.



MichaelinOsaka said:


> Hi,
> 
> Reborn cycling nut.. living in Osaka, Japan. I just got back into cycling.. after about 9 years off.
> 
> ...


Is that the ole venerable 8500 that was bonded carbon tubes into aluminum luges ? I still have one of those in my attic along with a 8900 team issue pro carbon from very early 90's (I used to race for them back in the day, yes I am ancient.)
I think you would really love one of the chinese carbon 26ers heck at 300 bucks I mean really ! Now if we could get the shipping cost so it is not over 20% of the frame cost (but I know you guys would not be happy with a slow boat from china.)


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> You are using these? If so, how long have you been using them? Are the weights accurate?
> How is the build, spoke tension, wheels are true etc? Have you tried running them tubeless? TIA


I've had mine for about a month now. have about 50 miles on them. so far wheels are still true, I went down, checked the wheels, still perfect. before I bought them I found one person that cracked a wheel, he said he was 190lbs. the reviews here on mtbr are good, no mention of a crack:

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/tires-and-wheels/wheelset/vuelta/team-superlite-disc/prd_441791_157crx.aspx

I bought mine on ebay for $200+20 shipping USD from a guy. he said he has 6000 miles on another set for his other bike. I've heard vuelta isn't good about warranty.



ghawk said:


> Nice !!!!!!!!!!!
> Man I would love to see that beefy design in a 29er. I know it would be about 3.5 lbs (I imagine that one comes in about right at 3lbs) but it would absorb shock like crazy and climb like a scalded monkey.
> ......and around around 300 bucks in a UD matte finish........next year or maybe 2.
> 
> ...


I thought carbon fiber absorbing shock was really only noticeable for road riding. if thats what your saying, my bad.


----------



## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

vitiate said:


> NICE frame! If you get a chance to weigh it, please post it up. For that price, you might be able to find a deal on stans wheels if you are patient, or get a xt hubs with mavic xc717. I've been running that for two years and it's been good to me. Substitute hope hubs to save weight.


I know from this thread or the one on the 29er board that some people have said there frame wasn't as light as they thought it would be; still light but not what they expected basically. My frame feels really freakin light, almost scary riding it on rough ***** light - so I just weighed it. Keep in mind I don't have one of those fancy hanging type scales, it's an expensive ($70) flat scale that I use to weigh coffee beans for roasting. So using that scale it came in at 2lbs 12oz.

Give me a couple days and I will get more pics of the frame at different angles and the handlebars that came with it.


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## henryvc (Sep 20, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Another update. I put Michelin Wild Run'r 1.1 road tires on an extra wheelset that I had. Next, I picked up a FSA carbon crankset on Ebay for $75. HBC is making me a spyderless 34T red ring that should be here next week. At that time a KMC gold light 10 speed chain is going on. After that I think I'll call it done. I was going to put on an Aussie 38T cog, but I think I'll just use this for the street, so 11-34 should be fine.


How are those Michelin Wild Run'rs? I cannot find any reviews on them.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> You are using these? If so, how long have you been using them? Are the weights accurate?
> How is the build, spoke tension, wheels are true etc? Have you tried running them tubeless? TIA


I am using these right now, they are on a Specialized Epic. I have had two sets and each have several years of riding on them. A riding buddy of mine was so impressed with my wheels for the price that he actually bought a set. He messed up on a 3' drop and blew his tires, but the wheels were completely unhurt so I know they are pretty tough. The weight is pretty accurate. One set of my wheels came in at 1580g and the other came in at 1620g. The lighter set I have upgraded the bearings to ceramic from boca bearings. The spokes I believe are Wheelsmith bladed spokes, which are pretty nice spokes, but are more expensive to replace than standard spokes. Spoke tension is great and does not loosen up over time. They are actually hand tensioned, which is hard to find on a wheelset of this price. I did break a spoke on one, I think a stick or something got jammed in my wheel. But it was easy to replace. I have run them tubeless. My first attempt was just using Stans yellow tape and valve with tubeless ready Specialized Captain tires. This did not work well at all, I twice had violent burps on rough trails that let all the air out. I then put in a Stans rim strip and had no problems at all, they worked great set up that way. Both sets of wheels are still true and required little maintenance, other than lubing the freehub body. As I said previously the only thing I don't like about the wheels is the freehub is a little noisier than I like. They are joytech hubs, so while they are light and durable they are low tech design. Also like a lot of light weight hubs they use an aluminum freehub body that will get a little chewed up by the cassette over time. But this is normal for any high end wheel that uses an aluminum freehub. However you cannot get a replacement aluminum freehub from Vuleta XRP, they can only supply a steel one which is much heavier. You can however get an aluminum replacement from Vuelta USA. FYI Vuelta XRPs are just Veulta USA wheels that have different decals and model names. You also can buy the same wheelset with different decals from Vuelta USA, they are called the MTB Superlite. They cost a little bit more, but warranty and service is much better from Vuelta USA.

Anyways for a budget wheelset, I am a big fan of these wheels. I think I have let you kow everything I know about them. Now if your budget is a little higher I would recommend a set of Stans wheels which for around $500 you get a very light, tubeless wheelset.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

YO! I'm back into looking at one of those mountain bike frames as I like carbon but don't feel like dropping the loot on a high-end carbon frame. If this breaks then I'm out 400$ instead of $1500.

However, how many of you ride in the west with one of these frames? How is the general durability? I ride 3-4x a week on some pretty rocky trails, mostly XC and it's a tough area on bikes compared to a lot of places I've ridden. Are these able to take 4-5' drops regularly? Who actually _really beats_ on these here?


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

4-5 foot drops? Sounds like you need a DH frame.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Has anyone here tried the full suspension frame yet?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

illegalsmile said:


> YO! I'm back into looking at one of those mountain bike frames as I like carbon but don't feel like dropping the loot on a high-end carbon frame. If this breaks then I'm out 400$ instead of $1500.
> 
> However, how many of you ride in the west with one of these frames? How is the general durability? I ride 3-4x a week on some pretty rocky trails, mostly XC and it's a tough area on bikes compared to a lot of places I've ridden. Are these able to take 4-5' drops regularly? Who actually _really beats_ on these here?


If you do 5' drops I would stay away from just about any carbon frame. If you bust one of these on a 5' drop you might be out more than $400, depending on how good your medical and dental insurance are. There are very few bikes at all that can regularly handle 5' drops other than DJ, freeride and DH bikes. Even an All Mountain bike is not going to take that abuse for very long.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Mine is still going strong. Here's a picture I took a couple of weeks ago at my usual training mountain. The snow was almost melted enough for me to ride all the way to the top. I had to walk a few hundred meters because of the snow that day.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

tahustvedt said:


> Mine is still going strong. Here's a picture I took a couple of weeks ago at my usual training mountain. The snow was almost melted enough for me to ride all the way to the top. I had to walk a few hundred meters because of the snow that day.


Could you explain your trails a little bit better? I want to know what kind of abuse you throw at it, i know a lot of mountains have trails that are essentially roads.



> 4-5 foot drops? Sounds like you need a DH frame.


No. I don't. What I do want to know if this frame can handle this sort of abuse. My old (~15 years) HT stumpjumper can still take this abuse. I don't expect 15 years out of a carbon frame but i want to know that it won't crack after the first few drops.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

illegalsmile said:


> YO! I'm back into looking at one of those mountain bike frames as I like carbon but don't feel like dropping the loot on a high-end carbon frame. If this breaks then I'm out 400$ instead of $1500.
> 
> However, how many of you ride in the west with one of these frames? How is the general durability? I ride 3-4x a week on some pretty rocky trails, mostly XC and it's a tough area on bikes compared to a lot of places I've ridden. Are these able to take 4-5' drops regularly? Who actually _really beats_ on these here?


Your answer is a big fat NO.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

illegalsmile said:


> Could you explain your trails a little bit better? I want to know what kind of abuse you throw at it, i know a lot of mountains have trails that are essentially roads.
> 
> No. I don't. What I do want to know if this frame can handle this sort of abuse. My old (~15 years) HT stumpjumper can still take this abuse. I don't expect 15 years out of a carbon frame but i want to know that it won't crack after the first few drops.


This mountain has a rough gravel road, and isn't very hard on the frame. I also ride fast on rough forest single track trails, with jumps, rocks, rivers and tree trunks, but not even close to 4-5' drops.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

illegalsmile said:


> No. I don't. What I do want to know if this frame can handle this sort of abuse. My old (~15 years) HT stumpjumper can still take this abuse. I don't expect 15 years out of a carbon frame but i want to know that it won't crack after the first few drops.


There is absolutely no way that you have a 15 year old Stumpjumper that regularly handles 5' drops. Show me a video of you repeatedly taking this Stumpjumper off of 5' drops and I will believe. You sound like one of these guys that brags about how rough his trails are to make himself feel good. And there is absolutely no way that one of these frames will last doing 5' drops either. I would be suprised if one survived one 5' drop, let alone many. If you really are doing this type of riding then you need a freeride bike. Until I see the video, I don't care what you say about how hardcore you and your trails are.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> There is absolutely no way that you have a 15 year old Stumpjumper that regularly handles 5' drops. Show me a video of you repeatedly taking this Stumpjumper off of 5' drops and I will believe. You sound like one of these guys that brags about how rough his trails are to make himself feel good. And there is absolutely no way that one of these frames will last doing 5' drops either. I would be suprised if one survived one 5' drop, let alone many. If you really are doing this type of riding then you need a freeride bike. Until I see the video, I don't care what you say about how hardcore you and your trails are.


What he said^!


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> What he said^!


You guys need to RELAX. I just want to know what the quality of this frame is. So hard to ask and so hard for you all to answer apparently. When I see pictures of these builds next park benches, on dirt roads and with grandma riding on the bike it makes me think no one is actually riding these. I'm not trying to start any hardcore-this-or-that i simply want more information about the conditions people are riding these on and what they're being subjected to on trails.



tahustvedt said:


> This mountain has a rough gravel road, and isn't very hard on the frame. I also ride fast on rough forest single track trails, with jumps, rocks, rivers and tree trunks, but not even close to 4-5' drops.


Thanks for the info, you've been riding on this frame for awhile, you said still going strong, for how long now?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

illegalsmile said:


> You guys need to RELAX. I just want to know what the quality of this frame is. So hard to ask and so hard for you all to answer apparently. When I see pictures of these builds next park benches, on dirt roads and with grandma riding on the bike it makes me think no one is actually riding these. I'm not trying to start any hardcore-this-or-that i simply want more information about the conditions people are riding these on and what they're being subjected to on trails.
> 
> Thanks for the info, you've been riding on this frame for awhile, you said still going strong, for how long now?


It should be obvious that these frames, given the material and very light weight, are intended and built to used as XC bikes, aggresive XC at the very most. That means, at the most, maybe a little flowing air over a rise in the trail, some very small jumps, but that's about it. 5' drops are are freeride territory and a freeride bike should be used for that type of riding.

So, lets put an end to this discussion and move on.


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## exodus1500 (Jun 5, 2010)

illegalsmile said:


> You guys need to RELAX. I just want to know what the quality of this frame is. So hard to ask and so hard for you all to answer apparently. When I see pictures of these builds next park benches, on dirt roads and with grandma riding on the bike it makes me think no one is actually riding these. I'm not trying to start any hardcore-this-or-that i simply want more information about the conditions people are riding these on and what they're being subjected to on trails.
> ?


Im pretty sure SEVERAL people have said that there is no way it will handle 5 foot drops, so no, its not too hard to answer. I just think you arent getting the answer you want to hear....


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

ljsmith i just read your post about your xc trails experience, sounds intriguing and it's still going strong yeah? 



look, everyone's definition of XC is different but for me encountering a drop up to 5' on the trails isn't uncommon if you want it. I'm just really interested in hearing how hard these are ridden. 


I've just ordered one. I will give a full report after all is built.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I bought mine a year ago. I posted in this thread when I first built it.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Anyone seen a 29er version? I'd really like to use one of these for a SS 29er build...

Edit: Woops! nevermind, found the 29er thread.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

illegalsmile said:


> ljsmith i just read your post about your xc trails experience, sounds intriguing and it's still going strong yeah?
> 
> look, everyone's definition of XC is different but for me encountering a drop up to 5' on the trails isn't uncommon if you want it. I'm just really interested in hearing how hard these are ridden.
> 
> I've just ordered one. I will give a full report after all is built.


I ride mine for XC. I do not do drops on it, I will do an occasional 1 ft. jump or something but nothing crazy. The definition of XC is pretty straighforward. It usually means fast hardpacked singletrack, doubletrack and fireroads with roots and rocks. Boulders, massive rock gardens and cliffs are not XC. Hucking and drops are not considered XC at all, never have been, never will be. Some people would even go as far to say that XC means your wheels never leave the ground. I certainly have seen that definition in the owners manuals of some XC forks I have owned. These frames are meant for XC riding and are well built quality frames for that purpose. I would be very concerned if you were even considering taking this, or any other XC carbon frame off of a 5' drop. The only carbon hardtail that might stand up to it is the On One 456. I personally would not take any XC bike, made by anyone, made of any material, off of a 5' drop. I enjoy biking, and life for that matter, way to much to take that kind of risk. Sometimes theres a lot more at stake than just busting up your bike.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Going to add some more pics in a second, figured I would write this stuff up in a separate post. Still planning to take some nicer pics, didn't realize the ones from the phone sucked so much. The fork on the front is a Reba I just bought specifically for the frame. The wheelset is from my Santa Cruz SL that I used to give a feel for the look. Still not sure what wheelset I'm going to get. I've never built a bike before and I'm a mechanical moron but now that I've put a wheelset on the bike for the pics I now realize how big of a difference the wheels make in overall weight and obviously "rolling weight". 

Some people in this thread or the 29er thread have talked about a couple of things I wanted to point out to people on my frame: tire clearance and rotor clearance. The tire I have on the back is a 2.1 WTB Velociraptor. I've also put a Tioga Psycho 2 in the back that was a 2.1 but a tiny bit wider (this tire isn't made anymore but I found a store with a few left and bought them all - they have a mystique around them for me b/c I used these tires from the time I started mtn biking in M.S. through H.S.) Anyway, as people have said about tire clearance a 2.1 is about the max most likely. You can see from the pics that it doesn't look like I will have an issue with rotor clearance.

Let me know if I missed anything or if you have any questions.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

A few pics


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

A few more


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

The last picture I put on there shows a rectangular piece of carbon in the frame, anyone know or have an idea what that is - or is there for? I have some guesses but like I said I'm a moron.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> I ride mine for XC. I do not do drops on it, I will do an occasional 1 ft. jump or something but nothing crazy. The definition of XC is pretty straighforward. It usually means fast hardpacked singletrack, doubletrack and fireroads with roots and rocks. Boulders, massive rock gardens and cliffs are not XC. Hucking and drops are not considered XC at all, never have been, never will be. Some people would even go as far to say that XC means your wheels never leave the ground. I certainly have seen that definition in the owners manuals of some XC forks I have owned. These frames are meant for XC riding and are well built quality frames for that purpose. I would be very concerned if you were even considering taking this, or any other XC carbon frame off of a 5' drop. The only carbon hardtail that might stand up to it is the On One 456. I personally would not take any XC bike, made by anyone, made of any material, off of a 5' drop. I enjoy biking, and life for that matter, way to much to take that kind of risk. Sometimes theres a lot more at stake than just busting up your bike.


It's obviuos that this guy isn't going to take our advise. He is going to have to learn the hard way, and it's gonna sting! It's not going to be one of those, "it will polish out deals". I just hope the frame doesn't impale him, like what happened to one guy.

The best thing that we can do is not reply to his posting.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

This thread reminds me of when my son catches a dinker 1lb bass...he'll swear it's a five pounder!  I say you'll be fine on those "5 foot drops"...Have fun!


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Geez, relax people. A 5' drop with a good landing can be so smooth it won't even compress your 80mm XC forks... here, this my old (True Temper OX) XC bike with Easton Monkeylite XC carbon bars:


and this is me on that same bike going down Two-Chair at Post Canyon, OR, for those familiar with the trails there.


I also took it over the Egg-Drop a few times, and that is a hell of a lot more than 5'.... but it has a smooth landing.
I wouldn't hesitate to do that on any half decent mountainbike as long as you can drop the seat down. You can't measure the strength of a frame by the height of a drop.

A better question to ask is, are there any #220+ riders here, and how are your frames holding up?

Anywho™. I see there are several different versions of these frames. Has anyone found one that is 20" or less with a 590mm-600mm top tube, or all they all the same?


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

qdawgg said:


> The last picture I put on there shows a rectangular piece of carbon in the frame, anyone know or have an idea what that is - or is there for? I have some guesses but like I said I'm a moron.


The final layer of carbon is simply a cosmetic layer, not structural. It looks like they messed up the cosmetic layer and had to put on that extra piece to make it look better. My frame does not have any pieces like that. It is not a structural issue so its nothing to worry about.


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

My ebay carbon bike is ready to rock!!!! :devil: Tomorow I'll post some pictures!


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I'm going to lighten my one year old Ebay carbon bike with some new wheels and eclipse tubes now.  

Maybe I'll finally paint the frame like I planned to from the start. I just built a cyclo cross bike so I have something to mess about in the dirt with while the MTB is being painted.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

tahustvedt said:


> I'm going to lighten my one year old Ebay carbon bike with some new wheels and eclipse tubes now.
> 
> Maybe I'll finally paint the frame like I planned to from the start. I just built a cyclo cross bike so I have something to mess about in the dirt with while the MTB is being painted.


The paint will add back the weight you lost with lighter parts.


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

The bike will lose 700 g. The paint will add ~100 g. I have a brain.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

tahustvedt said:


> The bike will lose 700 g. The paint will add ~100 g. I have a brain.


That's a thin paint job!


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I'm only going to paint 60-70% of the frame. I think I posted photo shopped pictures earlier. It certainly won't gain weight overall.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Got it, sorry,


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## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I'll probably replace the BB7 brakes as well. The weight loss will be roughly 950 g. Then add paint.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

lelebebbel said:


> Geez, relax people. A 5' drop with a good landing can be so smooth it won't even compress your 80mm XC forks...
> I wouldn't hesitate to do that on any half decent mountainbike as long as you can drop the seat down. You can't measure the strength of a frame by the height of a drop.


TRUE.

Frame on the way, spent a little more on some paint.. not such a great deal with the paint as it sounds a lot of you have gotten but good enough. If I'm impaled then I'll be impaled while doing something fun.

ljsmith i really enjoyed reading your XC definition as it was very informative and i'm still thoroughly convinced my riding fits my definition of XC :thumbsup:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

just ordered the version with the ISP.. 
http://shhongying.en.alibaba.com/product/422761925-210385692/productdetail.html
getting a 19'' in 12 carbon. i was told the weight includes the mast topper so we shall see when it arrives..

after i placed the order i recieved a message from a different seller for this frame:
http://outdoor-bicycle.en.alibaba.com/product/429195412-211905477/productdetail.html
"the MTB model Fm038 isp price is $430 with clear coating
paint same as the photos cost $55
ship to USA cost $80"


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> just ordered the version with the ISP..
> http://shhongying.en.alibaba.com/product/422761925-210385692/productdetail.html
> getting a 19'' in 12 carbon. i was told the weight includes the mast topper so we shall see when it arrives..
> 
> ...


Did you really order something for a seller off alibaba? 90% of the sellers on alibaba are scammers. I hope you did not pay by Western Union.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

I wish my frame was able to come with a paint job. I don't dislike the frame and the look at all, I've just seen some basic paint jobs that look pretty good and you can't beat the price.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> just ordered the version with the ISP..
> http://shhongying.en.alibaba.com/product/422761925-210385692/productdetail.html
> getting a 19'' in 12 carbon. i was told the weight includes the mast topper so we shall see when it arrives..
> 
> ...


That's gonna be nice! I like the integrated seat post. But, measure 5 times and cut once. I want to see it when it's done. We'll have to meet at Starphuks again.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> Did you really order something for a seller off alibaba? 90% of the sellers on alibaba are scammers. I hope you did not pay by Western Union.


paypal.

i got it through one of the major sellers.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's gonna be nice! I like the integrated seat post. But, measure 5 times and cut once. I want to see it when it's done. We'll have to meet at Starphuks again.


Or go for a ride. the weight doesn't fall in the impressive category but its descent, If the claimed weight is accurate.

the build will be as follows:
Brake: Hayes stroker grams....................................................................228/246
Brake Rotor: kcnc razor 160/140..............................................................74/61
Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti 6blue alloy.............................................................?
Cables: powercords.................................................................................2-5g?
Cassette: 11-36(donno what moddle yet)...................................................?
Chain: kmc sl10.......................................................................................240ish
Crankset: extralite e bones w/ homebrewed 35t..........................................502+ring
Derlr (R): sram x.0 with afc pullys and alloy bolts........................................?
Fork: Magura durin sl+starnut....................................................................1357
Frame: Carbon..........................................................................................hopefully low
Grips: ESI(or bonty xxx light)...................................................................50-20
Handlebar: KCNC sc bone.......................................................................115
Headset: Carbon integrated junk from the bay............................................?
Pedals: Crank Bro's egg beater 2ti with ward axles.....................................182
Seat: sette rez unless i get a carbon one...................................................230-90
Seatpost clamp: stock topper unless i have one made................................?
Shifters: xx rear.......................................................................................100?
Skewers: j&l flyweight ..............................................................................32g
Stem: rotor sl2 w steel bolts......................................................................96+10?
Top cap/spacers: carbon and alloy bolt .....................................................12g
Tire (Front): currently schwalbe roc ron performance 2.25.............................485
Tire (Rear): kenda karma(best cheap xc rear tire ive ever ridden!)...................475
Wheelset: 1305g
Wheel Front: 592g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Front ........80g!..........................80g!................80(verified!)!! 
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine .........................................................................326
Spokes: DT 1.8's (because a stiff wheel is a better wheel) w/ nipple's............186
Wheel Rear: 713g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Rear...............................................................200g!
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine......................................................................... 327
Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples.....................................................................186
Overall: should be 7900-8200g or 17.5lbs to 18.5lbs


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

just picked up the powercordz. 4g for the uncut rear cable. got bontrager xxx light grips at 20g and a bontrager evoke rxl carbon saddle at 144g. it has an awesome shape and feel so it should keep the comfort descent.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Well as much as I love this bike the draw for full suspension has won me over.

$900

Ebay 19" Carbon HT frame
RaceFace Next SL seatpost
Sette Stem and Bars
Ergon grips
XT rear der
XT shifter
1x9 set up
salsa 32t ring
BBG bashwhich
Veulta Zerolite Pro wheels set (cartridge bearings)
Avid Speed Dial Ti levers
Avid BB5 brakes 180f/160r
Fox Float 100 RL fork with Enduro seals
RaceFace Evolve crankset/BB
Kevlar SB8 rear 
Kevlar Slant Six front
XTR brake housing and cables


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## e-luder (Mar 25, 2008)

That cut out on the BBG bash is for the crank arm not to show off you chainring. Hit a rock there and its toast, rotate that to were the arm is.


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

i am going to buy one of these frames from ebay.

the frame i am looking at is available in 19" and 21". but i really can't decide which size to take, so i need some advice. Currently i have a giant trance x 20”, which is just perfect for me. 
The problem is that the 19 has the same top tube lenght as my trance (610), but the seat tube is 1” shorter, so the seat post would have to stick out to the max limit. The 21 has a 630 top tube lenght. I am 184 cm (6.03"). If I had to decide only on the top tube lenght, i would get a 19. But I read here, that these carbon frames tend to be a little shorter as listed. Is that right?
Which one should I take? the 19“ and take the risk that it might be to small, or the 21" and get a shorter stem?

also another question for members from the EU. The EU has an anti dumping tax on chinese bikes, frames, forks,..., of 50%!!! But apperently not for stuff imported from Hong Kong. So there should be no problem importing such a frame into the EU from HK?
Has anyone had any problems on that matter?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I would definitely go 21" @ your height.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

ronabrandt said:


> That cut out on the BBG bash is for the crank arm not to show off you chainring. Hit a rock there and its toast, rotate that to were the arm is.


I know, you're about the 100th person to point that out. It was changed like the day after that pic was taken


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## jpedders (Jul 7, 2011)

Those bikes and frames look sweet! Tempting me to build one...

:thumbsup:


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

damjan_v said:


> i am going to buy one of these frames from ebay.
> 
> the frame i am looking at is available in 19" and 21". but i really can't decide which size to take, so i need some advice. Currently i have a giant trance x 20", which is just perfect for me.
> The problem is that the 19 has the same top tube lenght as my trance (610), but the seat tube is 1" shorter, so the seat post would have to stick out to the max limit. The 21 has a 630 top tube lenght. I am 184 cm (6.03"). If I had to decide only on the top tube lenght, i would get a 19. But I read here, that these carbon frames tend to be a little shorter as listed. Is that right?
> ...


What length stem is on your trance?


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

100 or 110, not sure


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

A couple pictures with the new cranks:


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## ggaiote (Jun 4, 2011)

Hi Guys!

Are these frames designed for 80mm or 100mm forks?

Tks!


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

ggaiote said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Are these frames designed for 80mm or 100mm forks?
> 
> Tks!


Either will work


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ggaiote said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Are these frames designed for 80mm or 100mm forks?
> 
> Tks!


Try reading the thread, you might learn something.


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

The white layer is on, and I'm really happy with how it looks. It's single component enamel paint, so it won't stand up to everything, but the paint scheme is easy enough to fix should I feel it starts looking too rough. I used the same paint on my CNC router, and it has survived several years of spraying with solvent and rough use there, but it's not exactly gravel.

I'll mask and spray on the red in a day or two.

EDIT:
With the white layer it weighs 1319 g. That's 69 g, and includes the installed bearing cups for the semi integrated headset. The frame weighed 1250 g without the cups when I got it.


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Finished. I haven't weighed it after the read coat, but started installing some components. The red area is so small that it's probably just a couple of grams.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

That looks really good. You did a great job with the masking for the letters.


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Thanks. It helps to only use letters with straight lines in them.


----------



## WickedMCMLXXIX (Jan 31, 2011)

Just to follow up, I've had my chinese carbon frame for about 4 months now and couldn't be more satisfied. Still a very solid, stiff ride. Have had two crashes and frame held up. Still trying to upgrade fork but otherwise perfect for me.


----------



## nailtrail (Jul 13, 2011)

chris1911 said:


> People may laugh at it being generic, but i would not be surprised if the company that made that frame also makes frames for the popular brands.


iv heard of stuff like that


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

nailtrail said:


> iv heard of stuff like that


don't be surprised, these are the companies that make frames for other companies.

Don't forget: cute girls are for riding, not riding with.

It's an inside joke.


----------



## nailtrail (Jul 13, 2011)

lol


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> don't be surprised, these are the companies that make frames for other companies.
> 
> Don't forget: cute girls are for riding, not riding with.
> 
> It's an inside joke.


so whats your advice if I meet a cute girl on the trail?


----------



## velman (Nov 27, 2006)

Does someone know anything about the Fm038? I havn't found anyone using it.

Would a 19" be ok for me? I'm 186 cm and don't want a bike that is to large for me.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

A 19" ought to fit you okay assuming you have average body proportions.


----------



## velman (Nov 27, 2006)

I did some measurement and a 19" is almost identical with my present HT. Is there someone out there who has bought the FM038?

/Staffan
Sweden


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

I finally finisehd my bike. I took for a test drive today and it did not break. However, I am having huge problems with adjusting Hayes Stroker Trail brakes. they keep howling and rubbing break pads.:nono: The total wieght is 21 pounds. I t can be easily reduced to 19 pounds if anyone is eager to drop more dollars.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

*few more pictures*


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

That looks light. What does it weigh?


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

tahustvedt said:


> That looks light. What does it weigh?


It weighs 21 pounds but I am using heavy skewers, seatost clamp, saddle and brakes. I could easily slim it down to 19 pounds but then I would have to drop few hundred dollars.


----------



## old'skool (Jul 2, 2011)

> What's scary is the area around the water bottle bosses on the DT is so thin, that you can easily flex the carbon with your fingers using very little effort.


Downtubes are under tension, not compression. That's why a bar strike on a thin walled top tube can be bad news.

Remember slingshots ? No DT at all, just a cable....


----------



## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

PatrickK said:


> I finally finisehd my bike. I took for a test drive today and it did not break. However, I am having huge problems with adjusting Hayes Stroker Trail brakes. they keep howling and rubbing break pads.:nono: The total wieght is 21 pounds. I t can be easily reduced to 19 pounds if anyone is eager to drop more dollars.


Very Sexy
I want my build to be green as well


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


>


Step back and give us a good side shot.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Step back and give us a good side shot.


I figured I took "not so good" pictures. I will post some more tomorrow. On the side note, I strained my back again after biking. It is the second time this year.:skep:


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

shoryuken said:


> Very Sexy
> I want my build to be green as well


Yes, green looks better than red.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

PatrickK said:


> The total wieght is 21 pounds. I t can be easily reduced to 19 pounds if anyone is eager to drop more dollars.


:eekster: What do those wheels weigh!?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> :eekster: What do those wheels weigh!?


1 metric ton.


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Mine will weigh ~9,1 kg/20 lbs after the upgrades.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> 1 metric ton.


must be! slick tires on a ridged carbon should be lighter unless those are anchors. with a mid weight drive and light cockpit.
love the green though


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> :eekster: What do those wheels weigh!?


Around 1660g without skewers. These are tubeless but I am running tubes. I ride Fulcrum always and forever. We have 6 Fulcrum wheelsets in total and cannot say anything bad.


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I got the brakes and seatpost today, so I put it together and weighed it. 9,2 kg. That's 1200 g down. It will drop down to 9,1 when I receive the lightweight skewers. 8,9 if I change the tires, but I like the RK Supersonics.  I'll go for a ride and take a photo of it later.


----------



## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

PatrickK said:


> Yes, green looks better than red.


lol, my main bike is red


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

specs?


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

A few changes since last year.

2010 18" ebay carbon hardtail
2009 or 2010 RS SID Race 100mm, not sure of the year.
Cane Creek ZSC-1 headset
Truvativ Stylo Race 110 mm stem
KCNC Dark Side 600 mm handlebar
SRAM X7 twist shifters
SRAM X7 2010 front derailleur
SRAM X7 2010 rear derailleur
Shimano M520 pedals
Aerozine X-12-SL-A3 crank
Shimano Ultegra 6700 chain
XTR 9 speed 11-32 cassette replaced SRAM PG 970
Stans Notubes ZTR Crest Disc wheelset replaced Fulcrum Red Metal 5
Continental Race King Supersonic 26x2.2
Eclipse ultralight tubes replaced Michelin C4 AirStop tubes
Avid Elixir 5 brakes replaced AVID BB7
Alligator 160 mm rotors replaced AVID BB7 185/160 rotors
KCNC SC11 Seatpost Clamp replaced an anchor of a clamp from PRO
KCNC Ti Pro Lite Scandium 400 mm seatpost replaced a 350 mm Promax carbon post with setback
90 g chinese carbon saddle from Ebay
Carbon bottle cage from Ebay
Sigma Rox 8.0 computer

Can't say I notice the difference in weight when I ride it.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

shoryuken said:


> lol, my main bike is red


No worries. My other Chinese carbon bike is a pimping red, too.:thumbsup: I post some pics last year.

Here it is.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=536473&page=5


----------



## jorgerunfast (Dec 20, 2010)

PatrickK, I love both of your builds, especially the green. Mind if I ask you for a components and cost breakdown???


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> Around 1660g without skewers. These are tubeless but I am running tubes. I ride Fulcrum always and forever. We have 6 Fulcrum wheelsets in total and cannot say anything bad.


Not as heavy as I thought.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

jorgerunfast said:


> PatrickK, I love both of your builds, especially the green. Mind if I ask you for a components and cost breakdown???


My bike says thank you.:thumbsup: I am still at work. I will make a list later tonight.


----------



## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on one of these 26" frames from Raylike, to replace my aluminum Azonic hardtail . Similar frames seem to be all over the place on Ebay, but I have yet to see anyone build one up. I guess I'll be the guinea pig. This one has a tapered head tube, optional BB30, and i'm trying to get it in a matte UD finish.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

*Here you go again.*


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


>


Oh yeah, that's nice! Do you like the Trigon fork as much as I do?


----------



## tahustvedt (May 7, 2010)

Nice! I'd love to replace my current Ebay frame with one like that. Those thin seat stays look so much better than the fat ones on mine.


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Oh yeah, that's nice! Do you like the Trigon fork as much as I do?


It has been my first rigid fork since 1993. I am thirty three right now.:skep: It felt great and was not harsh at all. However it seems rigid fork is harder on the body in general. Obviously I have to pay more attention to potholes. I noticed that my front rotors start rubbing brake pads as soon as I hit a bigger obstacle with my front wheel. Do you also have this problem? Hayes brakes are really pain in the ... to adjust unlike my Shimano or Avid brakes.:skep:

p.s. do not pay attention to seatpost height since it was too high.

I hasten to add that a Niner handlebar was a gift from Niner. When I bought my Niner rigid 29 forks one of them was so to say "imperfect". I sent an e-mail to Niner with pictures and they said I should keep it and they will send me a free handelbar or send it back for a replacement and wait.:thumbsup:


----------



## jorgerunfast (Dec 20, 2010)

So has anyone ordered and built up one of the Carbon 29ers???

I read all 20 pages of this damn thread last night waiting for someone to comment or post pics on a build, and i got nothin!


----------



## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

jorgerunfast said:


> So has anyone ordered and built up one of the Carbon 29ers???
> 
> I read all 20 pages of this damn thread last night waiting for someone to comment or post pics on a build, and i got nothin!


Have you checked the thread in the 29'er forum? http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=640919


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

jorgerunfast said:


> So has anyone ordered and built up one of the Carbon 29ers???
> 
> I read all 20 pages of this damn thread last night waiting for someone to comment or post pics on a build, and i got nothin!


This thread is about 26 hardtails. There is a separate thread about 29er.


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

jorgerunfast said:


> So has anyone ordered and built up one of the Carbon 29ers???
> 
> I read all 20 pages of this damn thread last night waiting for someone to comment or post pics on a build, and i got nothin!


Did you know that there's a forum search? :thumbsup:


----------



## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

thanks for taking one for the team. I don't think you will be disaponted.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

PatrickK said:


> It has been my first rigid fork since 1993. I am thirty three right now.:skep: It felt great and was not harsh at all. However it seems rigid fork is harder on the body in general. Obviously I have to pay more attention to potholes. I noticed that my front rotors start rubbing brake pads as soon as I hit a bigger obstacle with my front wheel. Do you also have this problem? Hayes brakes are really pain in the ... to adjust unlike my Shimano or Avid brakes.:skep:
> 
> p.s. do not pay attention to seatpost height since it was too high.
> 
> I hasten to add that a Niner handlebar was a gift from Niner. When I bought my Niner rigid 29 forks one of them was so to say "imperfect". I sent an e-mail to Niner with pictures and they said I should keep it and they will send me a free handelbar or send it back for a replacement and wait.:thumbsup:


I like that Niner bar!

On all my bikes, I have to adjust the calipers once in a while. I do it by sight and it only take a couple minutes. Try to learn to always sinch the wheels down at the same torque all the time, that will help. More or less torque will move the caliper in or out. Carbon is really strong, so if you tighten the adapter bolts and/or caliper bolts on the fork tight enough, they won't move, and be sure to use those thin washers against the fork.


----------



## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

Has anyone 650b converted one of these carbon frames?

Perusing this thread, looks like there are several frame designs and wondering if any of them have rear triangle clearance for a 650b tire.


----------



## jorgerunfast (Dec 20, 2010)

vitiate said:


> Did you know that there's a forum search? :thumbsup:


:madman::thumbsup:

thanks gents!


----------



## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

jorgerunfast said:


> :madman::thumbsup:
> 
> thanks gents!


Did you find it?:thumbsup:


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

I'm about to pull the trigger on this Ebay carbon frame:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350475810553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Any opinions?


----------



## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Looks like the rest of the frames on here. Order it.


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

DirtyR said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on this Ebay carbon frame:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350475810553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Any opinions?


Try to buy a headset with any of these frames you get, it can/will help you avoid issues later when determining which one you need. If cheap, buy two.

Also, get at least one, maybe two, spare hangers with it too. Same reason. 

I really like that frame, finally one that has a good long ETT, I might just buy one also. Keep us in the loop please.


----------



## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

DirtyR said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on this Ebay carbon frame:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350475810553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Any opinions?


Did you read any of my posts? I just bought a frame from the same ebay store.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

qdawgg said:


> Did you read any of my posts? I just bought a frame from the same ebay store.


Ya I saw it, I didn't realize it was the same frame until now. You got carbon handlebars with yours? I need to find that deal. What headset are you going to run? Did yours some with one? I guess I can ask them for extra derailleur hangers as well. Have you made any progress with your build?


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

I pulled the trigger on the frame. The seller said that they don't have any headsets at the moment, but an FSA #9 headset fits. The only FSA headset that I see that has #9 in it is this one:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...dium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US

I'm not sure that's the right one. Anyone have any insight as to what headset fits this thing? Qdawgg are you using the headset they supplied with yours, or did you buy a better one? Either way can you please tell me what model headset it is?

Thanks!


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

ranier said:


> Has anyone 650b converted one of these carbon frames?
> 
> Perusing this thread, looks like there are several frame designs and wondering if any of them have rear triangle clearance for a 650b tire.


The frame I have will fits 650b, but with very little clearance. I would not risk it, especially being carbon a little tire rub could eventually ruin the frame.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

jorgerunfast said:


> :madman::thumbsup:
> 
> thanks gents!


Here is a link to the 29er thread for those having a hard time finding it.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=640919


----------



## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

DirtyR said:


> I pulled the trigger on the frame. The seller said that they don't have any headsets at the moment, but an FSA #9 headset fits. The only FSA headset that I see that has #9 in it is this one:
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...dium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US
> 
> ...


I did get the handlebars which are much nicer and cooler than I thought they would be from the pics and really making me think of using them. My frame is just a little different than your, more than anything just the styling is a little different.

The headset they sent me is just their generic headset, I'm not sure if I'm going to use it yet or not. I'm a little ways from actually getting the bike completely built b/c of lack of money but so far I bought a Rock Shox reba air U-turn w/ rebound and all the *****. Got it at bluesky for about half the price, they still have some I believe. I also found some X0 shifters and rear derailleur brand new for $200 from a guy on my local mtn forums.

Next 2 things I'm planning to get are wheelset and crank. Probably will go with the SLX crank b/c of price and the wheelset I'm not sure yet. Seriously considering the Neuvation wheelsets and if they fall apart in a year I'll buy a really good wheelset.


----------



## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

What size tires are you guys running?

Just received my frame and I'm waiting on a new wheelset but i popped on a wheel with a 2.35 small block 8 and it fit, the wheel wasn't exactly true but it didn't rub but it looks close...


----------



## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

Also, I had the retarded idea that an integrated 44mm headset meant that I could run a tapered fork... 

Does everyone here use the FSA, generic chinese, or some other headset?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

illegalsmile said:


> Also, I had the retarded idea that an integrated 44mm headset meant that I could run a tapered fork...
> 
> Does everyone here use the FSA, generic chinese, or some other headset?


Cane Creek Z3. One of the best options. I paid about $35 on EBay.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

Got the frame today and put it together. Here's the build (nothing extravagant):

-Ebay 19" carbon frame 
-Manitou Skareb Super TPC 100 mm fork
-FSA Orbit Z headset
-Shimano Deore LX Hollowtech II crank
-Xpedo Face Off pedals
-Bontrager XXX-lite carbon seat post
-Specialized Phenom Ti seat
-Woodman Seat post clamp
-Bontrager bars and stem
-Sram X-0 9 speed derailluer
-X-3 shifter (upgrading this next week)
-Mavic 717 rims laced to Shimano XT hubs
-Avid BB7 brakes

The frame weighed in at 1120g with the derailluer hanger. The total weight as it sits now is 22.5lbs.

Here's some quick crappy pics:


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

DirtyR said:


> Got the frame today and put it together...


Love the build, similar to my access xcl build...except lighter :thumbsup:

I'd think some chainstay protection would be a good idea sooner than later. I use an old split innertube wrapped around and secured with zip ties.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

vitiate said:


> Love the build, similar to my access xcl build...except lighter :thumbsup:
> 
> I'd think some chainstay protection would be a good idea sooner than later. I use an old split innertube wrapped around and secured with zip ties.


Thanks!

I've got a Lizard Skin chain stay protector from my old frame, but it doesn't fit :sad:. I'll go ahead and do the innertube thing for now though, that's a good idea. I've discovered that my crappy X-3 seven speed shifter won't work with my X-0 nine speed derailleur so I'll have to swap the derailleur and cassette back or wait until I get my X-0 shifter to ride it. :madman: I was hoping I could just use 7 of the 9 cogs for now with the 7 speed shifter.


----------



## vitiate (Jan 13, 2010)

DirtyR said:


> I've discovered that my crappy X-3 seven speed shifter won't work.


At least you can set it to a middle cassette cog and go 'singlespeed', lol


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

vitiate said:


> At least you can set it to a middle cassette cog and go 'singlespeed', lol


I'm seriously thinking about doing that so I can ride it until I get the 9 speed shifter without swapping the 7 speed cassette/chain/derailleur back on it. Hell I may convince myself I want to go SS! ut:


----------



## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

DirtyR said:


> Got the frame today and put it together. Here's the build (nothing extravagant):
> 
> -Ebay 19" carbon frame
> -Manitou Skareb Super TPC 100 mm fork
> ...


That's one nice looking bike man, congrats!!


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

Well, I've convinced myself to try the single speed thing after my ride today where I stayed in one gear the entire time. Just ordered the stuff to convert. Should shed another lb or so.

:thumbsup:


----------



## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Cane Creek Z3. One of the best options. I paid about $35 on EBay.


I took your advice and went with the ZS-3... Maybe you could offer some more advice about headset stack height, this is zero stack and looking at CCs diagrams there's only a few mm of stack height (bottom/top).

My steerer tube is 193mm

headtube is 130mm and stem height on tube is 46mm which leaves me approximately 17mm.

I know it's not going to offer me a lot of adjustment but 17mm should leave enough room for the headset yea?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

illegalsmile said:


> I took your advice and went with the ZS-3... Maybe you could offer some more advice about headset stack height, this is zero stack and looking at CCs diagrams there's only a few mm of stack height (bottom/top).
> 
> My steerer tube is 193mm
> 
> ...


PM me to remind me and I'll measure and see how many mm's the headset takes up.


----------



## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

Any company make these with tapered headtube? Anyone here have one with a tapered headtube?
Tried emailing Dengfu but they have sent me no response in 3 days.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

PHOTO EXTREME! :thumbsup:
1423g for the frame :/ heavier side of things but still a lot lighter then my old ace.








headset wasn't to bad at 84g








housings came in at 31g


----------



## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

illegalsmile said:


> Any company make these with tapered headtube? Anyone here have one with a tapered headtube?
> Tried emailing Dengfu but they have sent me no response in 3 days.


I ordered one from Raylike Sports with a tapered headtube, and will post up pics and a review when/if it arrives. The Dengfu FM038 is the only other bike I have seen with one, but they have internal routing for the brake cable which I think is just a horrible idea.


----------



## jpsuperstar (Jan 28, 2010)

*Derailleur / chainstay clearance*



DirtyR said:


> [second to last image here, the closeup of the drivetrain. apparently I can't post images, as a noob.]


This is basically exactly what I'm trying to do, but with an aero carbon fork. But this picture makes the clearance between the chainstay and the rear derailleur look pretty tight. Is this an actual clearance issue? Is the chain the appropriate length?

Also, what chainguide have you got on the front?

Sweet bike tho..


----------



## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

DirtyR said:


> Got the frame today and put it together. Here's the build (nothing extravagant):
> 
> -Ebay 19" carbon frame
> -Manitou Skareb Super TPC 100 mm fork
> ...


DirtyR very nice bike! I am planing to get the same frame, but still not sure about the size. How tall are you and how does the 19" fit you?


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Thats looking good. Definitely a full WW build. I would recommend that you put some protective patches or film where the cable housing runs across the frame.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

jpsuperstar said:


> This is basically exactly what I'm trying to do, but with an aero carbon fork. But this picture makes the clearance between the chainstay and the rear derailleur look pretty tight. Is this an actual clearance issue? Is the chain the appropriate length?
> 
> Also, what chainguide have you got on the front?
> 
> Sweet bike tho..


It was close in the lowest gear (11t) but there's clearance, the chain was a bit long, I've shortened since that pic was taken. I'm going single speed in 2 days, so the derailleur is on it's way out  The chainguide in the N-gear Jumpstop. Light weight and simple.


----------



## voltaire (Sep 9, 2006)

DirtyR, I am thinking of getting the same frame. Do you know what the bottom bracket clearance is now that your bike is built up?


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

voltaire said:


> DirtyR, I am thinking of getting the same frame. Do you know what the bottom bracket clearance is now that your bike is built up?


I'm not sure what you mean, but I used a 68mm BB.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DirtyR said:


> I'm not sure what you mean, but I used a 68mm BB.


I think he means BB height.


----------



## voltaire (Sep 9, 2006)

Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing, yes, I mean bottom bracket height.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

voltaire said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing, yes, I mean bottom bracket height.


I'll measure it tonight for you. One problem I have run in to is that the way the chainstay dips down can cause a problem with going single speed. I'm having to go to larger gearing to get enough clearance so the chain won't rub on the bottom of the chainstay.


----------



## __Z__ (Aug 11, 2011)

glad to see their is a thread on this... ive been interested in buying one of these frames possibly for a future bike


----------



## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

Would it be a good idea to build one of these for a beginner bike versus starting with an alloy hardtail? I am very mechanically inclined so that won't be a problem. If so would I get the 17" frame being that I'm about 5'7"-5'8"

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


----------



## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

The price of the fame makes it very feasible as a beginner's bike frame.. something you can definitely grow into.


----------



## voltaire (Sep 9, 2006)

DirtyR said:


> I'll measure it tonight for you. One problem I have run in to is that the way the chainstay dips down can cause a problem with going single speed. I'm having to go to larger gearing to get enough clearance so the chain won't rub on the bottom of the chainstay.


Thanks for checking on this. You might be able to get past your chain rub problems with one of those tensioners that, i think, attach to the derailleur hanger.


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

voltaire said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing, yes, I mean bottom bracket height.


I measured 11.25" from the ground to the bottom of the frame at the BB. I'm running 26X1.95" tires.

Here's a pic of my SS conversion:










You can see what I was talking about regarding the chain clearance issue when running SS. I had to go to 36/18 gearing (from 32/16) so the chain would clear. Even with 36/18 the clearance is minimal, but it seems to be fine. I took it for an 8 mile ride today and no issues.

With the SS conversion and some lighter bars and stem I've got it down to 20.5lbs.


----------



## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

are the cups for the headset already instaled? if so, are they ok?


----------



## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

damjan_v said:


> are the cups for the headset already instaled? if so, are they ok?


Mine didn't come with one. I'm using an FSA Orbit Z.


----------



## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

Could we use thru axles on these frames or is it only quick release skewers? The reason I ask is that my friend is willing to give me his old saint rear derailleur and I would need to buy a problem solver thru axle for the derailleur to fit. 

Thanks guys! 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Kinetic07 said:


> Could we use thru axles on these frames or is it only quick release skewers? The reason I ask is that my friend is willing to give me his old saint rear derailleur and I would need to buy a problem solver thru axle for the derailleur to fit.
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


The dropouts accept standard 9mm axles. I have not seen one that is made for thru axles. Its not like you need a thru axle for the type of riding these frames are designed for. And it seems like an awful lot of effort just so you can use the saint rear derailleur.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks for the info! But I found out its a newer saint derailleur and it mounts like a normal rear derailleur. You are definitely the expert when it comes to these frames though haha 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2011)

are you guys all talking about this?

AXMAN M1 Carbon MTB Frame,1150g,Superlite. | eBay


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

The seller of my frame said that the dont currently have any spare rear derailluer hangers and if i wanted some it would push back ship time by a week. I was wondering what hangers I could buy for my new frame.

Also now that all my parts are ordered im going to post a build once i get my list written down.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

I just built mine! It's pretty badass, kinda heavy since it has AM parts on it but I can't wait to take it out. Feels really solid!


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

illegalsmile said:


> I just built mine! It's pretty badass, kinda heavy since it has AM parts on it but I can't wait to take it out. Feels really solid!


pics?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

illegalsmile said:


> YO! I'm back into looking at one of those mountain bike frames as I like carbon but don't feel like dropping the loot on a high-end carbon frame. If this breaks then I'm out 400$ instead of $1500.
> 
> However, how many of you ride in the west with one of these frames? How is the general durability? I ride 3-4x a week on some pretty rocky trails, mostly XC and it's a tough area on bikes compared to a lot of places I've ridden. Are these able to take 4-5' drops regularly? Who actually _really beats_ on these here?


Let us know how the 4-5' drops go!


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Let us know how the 4-5' drops go!


I know I wouldn't try that with mine. It might take it, it might not, but I'm not gonna find out! There aren't any drops that big on my trails. If there were I would probably be riding a FS rig.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

rides like a knife, climbs wonderfully
needs, new pedals and the fork would like to be painted.


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## manitou001 (Apr 2, 2009)

got the parts I needed.. then broke the frame on the trail.. back to building another one I guess.


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

illegalsmile: What did you use to paint your frame, and how's it holding up? I like that color.


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## Discodan (Nov 25, 2010)

DirtyR said:


> illegalsmile: What did you use to paint your frame, and how's it holding up? I like that color.


I'll second that, the matte finish looks great and is a nice change to all the gloss bikes out there. When you say you want to paint the forks, is that to change the colour? I think the white is a really good contrast colour to the orange, maybe even just some simple white graphics or stripes on the frame would bring them together


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

I had Cherry and the fine folks in China paint it, i said matte orange and they said give use a PMS color and I said Pantone 717 with matte finish and it was done... I've ridden it once, today. It rode well on the road from my house to the trails and even better once on the dirt!

I want the bike to be orange and black, halloween stylee the white works but i'm not a big fan. Fox's stupid stickers are a pain to remove without a heat gun.


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

My frame from Raylike is on the way. They made a mistake with the mold and built it with a 1 1/8" straight headtube, when I ordered tapered. They were upfront with the mistake and offered to refund my money. I don't really need the tapered tube, so I agreed to take it. I can run tapered steerer anyway with the 44mm tube and a different headset lower.


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

Painted mine white:


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

@DirtyR That looks amazing, did you do any special prep to the carbon before shooting that paint?


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

nick1000 said:


> @DirtyR That looks amazing, did you do any special prep to the carbon before shooting that paint?


Thanks!

Since they lacquer over the carbon I just lightly sanded it with 240 grit sand paper. I was careful not to sand through the lacquer. Then I used primer and wet sanded the primer before applying the paint and clear.

I'm still wondering if I should have painted the lower fork white. I even had it apart to replace the seals and install a different ride kit, but I decided not to. I'm still working on getting a white Stan's wheel for the rear.


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## tzahik (Feb 5, 2011)

hi 
im lokking for carbon handelbar for my 29er.
what is your sujestion?where to buy?


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## teknikk7 (Aug 29, 2011)

Hey guys, this is my first post! Anyhow, I have a Cannondale Trail SL2. How many parts would be interchangeable if I ordered one of these frames? 

Also, I notice a good balance between 12K and 3K. What is recommended type and why? I would plan on painting it, so beyond looks is there any benefit from one over the other?

Specs:

Frame - Trail SL, Optimized 6061 alloy, SAVE, 1.5" headtube
Fork - RockShox Recon Silver TK, 100mm, Solo Air, lockout, rebound, 1.5"
Crank - Shimano FC-M430-8 44/32/22
Chain - Shimano HG53, 9 speed
Rims - Maddux DC 3.0
Spokes - Stainless Black
Tires - Kenda Small Block 8, 26x2.1"
Pedals - V Platform w/steel cage
Bottom - Bracket Shimano ES-25 Octalink
Rear - CogsSRAM PG-950 , 11-32
Front - Derailleur Shimano Alivio
Rear - Derailleur Shimano Deore
Shifters - Shimano Deore
Handlebars - Cannondale C3 6061 double butted 680x20mm riser
Stem - Cannondale C4 1.5", 31.8
Headset - Tange Custom 1.5"
Brakes - Shimano BR-M445 Hydraulic Disc
Wheel - RimsMaddux DC 3.0
Saddle - Cannondale Stage 2
Grips - Cannondale alloy locking grips w/closed end

Thanks!


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

teknikk7 said:


> Hey guys, this is my first post! Anyhow, I have a Cannondale Trail SL2. How many parts would be interchangeable if I ordered one of these frames?
> 
> Also, I notice a good balance between 12K and 3K. What is recommended type and why? I would plan on painting it, so beyond looks is there any benefit from one over the other?
> 
> ...


The 12K and 3K frames are the same. The final weave is just cosmetic and has little if any effect on performance or ride characteristics. As far as what parts will swap over, it should all be able to be swapped except your headset and your fork if it is really in fact 1.5". I have never seen a Rockshox Recon with a 1.5" steer tube, are you sure that is correct? More than likely your headset is a 1.5 to 1 1/8" reducer style. If this is the case, then you could use your fork also. Also your front derailleur may or may not work depending on the size and type of the clamp, and whether it is top or bottom pull.

Keep in mind that the parts you have listed are very heavy. Switching to one of these frames is probably only going to lighten your bike by 1 to 1.5 pounds. If I had to guess, you are looking at about a 28-30lb bike.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

So I'm kinda thinking about getting one of these an building it up as a commuter . . . I know it would end up being more expensive though than buying one from the LBS, but it might be kinda fun (and a good learning experience).

I have a small collection of parts growing as I upgrade my trail bike. I've already got a stem, handlebars, grips, and brakes. I'd probably set it up as a 1x9 to keep it simple and save some weight. I would however, need EVERYTHING else . . . and knowing myself, I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap.


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

OO7 said:


> So I'm kinda thinking about getting one of these an building it up as a commuter . . . I know it would end up being more expensive though than buying one from the LBS, but it might be kinda fun (and a good learning experience).


As far as carbon frame bikes go I don't think you'll find one that will come out cheaper than than building up one of these. If you find used parts on Ebay or locally you'll come out pretty good on cost depending on how high end you go on your components. I have less than $1k in mine.


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## teknikk7 (Aug 29, 2011)

ljsmith said:


> The 12K and 3K frames are the same. The final weave is just cosmetic and has little if any effect on performance or ride characteristics. As far as what parts will swap over, it should all be able to be swapped except your headset and your fork if it is really in fact 1.5". I have never seen a Rockshox Recon with a 1.5" steer tube, are you sure that is correct? More than likely your headset is a 1.5 to 1 1/8" reducer style. If this is the case, then you could use your fork also. Also your front derailleur may or may not work depending on the size and type of the clamp, and whether it is top or bottom pull.
> 
> Keep in mind that the parts you have listed are very heavy. Switching to one of these frames is probably only going to lighten your bike by 1 to 1.5 pounds. If I had to guess, you are looking at about a 28-30lb bike.


The bike is currently 28lbs. So I would only loose 1 pound?

Trail SL2
1.5" Steertube.


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## DirtyR (Dec 17, 2010)

teknikk7 said:


> The bike is currently 28lbs. So I would only loose 1 pound?
> 
> Trail SL2
> 1.5" Steertube.


Your current fame probably weighs 3.5-4 lbs. The Ebay carbon frame weighs around 2.5 lbs.


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## teknikk7 (Aug 29, 2011)

DirtyR said:


> Your current fame probably weighs 3.5-4 lbs. The Ebay carbon frame weighs around 2.5 lbs.


Thanks!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DirtyR said:


> As far as carbon frame bikes go I don't think you'll find one that will come out cheaper than than building up one of these. If you find used parts on Ebay or locally you'll come out pretty good on cost depending on how high end you go on your components. I have less than $1k in mine.


About 1K in mine. You can find some great deals if your patient.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

*Anyone know this frame? Or other 15" or smaller frame availability?*

I got this spec sheet previously from one of the Chinese vendors, but I don't recall which nor can I find the frame again anywhere I've looked.

Anyone know who sells it?

Alternatively, anyone know of frame availability 15" or smaller?

thanks,
Andrew


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

is the internal cable routing bad on these frames? I think some of the curved style frames have the internal.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

I received an FSA Orbit XLII headset free with my fork and was wondering if this headset would be compatible with the frame Or if I would need to still purchase a zero stack


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## paulozi (Sep 6, 2011)

I have read through a zillion post on here. What model number frames is everyone using. I race cross country and want a frame that is going to hang tough and climb like a goat. Any suggestions? Thanks


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

My frame from Raylike arrived today (see post 1057). The frame itself looks good, unfortunately I don't think I'm going to be able to use it. From the engineering drawings it appeared to have plenty of tire clearance. It barely fits my goto race tire, the Conti RaceKing 2.2, with ~1/8" of clearance. The knobs rub with Conti Mountain King 2.4's, and that tire measures more like a 2.2. I've had cyclocross frames clog up in the mud with a half inch or more of tire clearance. I don't know if I want to spend any more money building this up.
Frame weight is 1467 grams (3.2lbs) in a size large (20") frame. Heavier than I was hoping for but not totally out of line with the frame size.


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

I decided the frame is not going to work for my purposes, so I purchased a mtbr ad if anyone is interested:
Carbon 26" Hardtail Frame, 20" frame size - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
I'd like to get $350 shipped for the frame, I paid over $400. Here's a picture of the frame with a Conti x-king 2.2, which runs narrower than the Race King posted above. Similar sized tires like Schwalbe Racing Ralphs 2.2 should also work.
Moving on, does anyone have any suggestions from frames that will accept 2.4" tires such as Schwalbe RR 2.4, or Conti MK2 2.4"? I think I may need to get something more AM oriented like the On-One 456.


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

You would still need the zero-stack. I bought a "Gub" sealed headset (pretty inexpensive) off eBay and it's held up very well.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

nick1000 said:


> You would still need the zero-stack. I bought a "Gub" sealed headset (pretty inexpensive) off eBay and it's held up very well.


are you in the US? how long did shipping take?


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

strader said:


> I decided the frame is not going to work for my purposes, so I purchased a mtbr ad if anyone is interested:
> Carbon 26" Hardtail Frame, 20" frame size - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
> I'd like to get $350 shipped for the frame, I paid over $400. Here's a picture of the frame with a Conti x-king 2.2, which runs narrower than the Race King posted above. Similar sized tires like Schwalbe Racing Ralphs 2.2 should also work.
> Moving on, does anyone have any suggestions from frames that will accept 2.4" tires such as Schwalbe RR 2.4, or Conti MK2 2.4"? I think I may need to get something more AM oriented like the On-One 456.


I'd snap that up from you quick if it were my size, but 20" is too big for sure.

Check out the SC Chameleon for an AM hardtail.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Literally just finished building my carbon bike - with A LOT of help from a friend of mine. In the next couple of day I'll go take more pics with my camera instead of the cell phone and I'll list all of the parts too. But at least here is a first look of the finished product. 

I did run into 2 problems; the BB was 90mm and I had already bought a crank before I realized it. So I had to get a conversion kit in order to make it work with the SLX crank, not a big deal just slowed things down and I wasn't positive it would work till the conversion came in. 2nd problem is probably a bigger deal. The holes for the rear brakes were not big enough. It seemed like the rear piece was alloy at first - it wasn't. So hopefully there are no issues with this later.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

slabber said:


> I got this spec sheet previously from one of the Chinese vendors, but I don't recall which nor can I find the frame again anywhere I've looked.
> 
> Anyone know who sells it?
> 
> ...


Anyone?


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

DirtyR said:


> Painted mine white:


what size tire are you using? I'm thinking about getting the same frame you have. what kind of headset does it use? do you think it can take a 2.25" tire? it doesn't look like theres much clearance in the rear. also, how tall are you? I'm 5'11, I'm wondering if I should get the 19" or 21". my current bike is 19" and it fits correctly.


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## shoryuken (Mar 24, 2008)

DirtyR said:


> Painted mine white:


sexy


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

@gabe3 me and my friend bought this frame. he is the same height as you and fits perfectly on the 19, I am a bit taller (184 cm), I got the 21 and it fits for me.
I am running a 2.1 and there is some clerence left, but not sure if a 2.25 would fit


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

strader said:


> My frame from Raylike arrived today (see post 1057). The frame itself looks good, unfortunately I don't think I'm going to be able to use it. From the engineering drawings it appeared to have plenty of tire clearance. It barely fits my goto race tire, the Conti RaceKing 2.2, with ~1/8" of clearance. The knobs rub with Conti Mountain King 2.4's, and that tire measures more like a 2.2. I've had cyclocross frames clog up in the mud with a half inch or more of tire clearance. I don't know if I want to spend any more money building this up.
> Frame weight is 1467 grams (3.2lbs) in a size large (20") frame. Heavier than I was hoping for but not totally out of line with the frame size.


that's a bummer man. my frame fits a 2.25 kenda small block 8 in the back nicely, definitely couldn't do a big knob 2.4 but 2.25 knobby would work...

Good luck.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Here are some better pics.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

When I get a chance I'll add the specs - most of the components are obvious though. I forgot the bike also came with a headset which is what the Neco headset it - fit perfectly in the frame so I figured I would use it. I also had XO shifters that I bought from a guy that had taken them off his new bike. Well they didn't work and it was the last part(s) we were installing, so I ordered X9 shifters and I'm planning to send the X0's in to get fixed.


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice man!!! Good to see more hardtails on this FS site!!!!! Nice bike and build!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ghettocop said:


> Nice man!!! Good to see more hardtails on this FS site!!!!! Nice bike and build!


FS site? Are you consuming shrooms again?


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

damjan_v said:


> @gabe3 me and my friend bought this frame. he is the same height as you and fits perfectly on the 19, I am a bit taller (184 cm), I got the 21 and it fits for me.
> I am running a 2.1 and there is some clerence left, but not sure if a 2.25 would fit


what headset do you use? is zero stack, integrated, and press fit all the same thing?


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

i used this one from ebay (cant post links)

VP A41AC CANE CREEK HEADSET 28.6MM/44MM Internal

not the best, but very good for the money


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

I bought strader's frame earlier this week (few posts up, tire clearance issues) and built it up yesterday:




























Bike is 23.1lbs right now. Tubeless and a less aggressive and lighter front tire in the works. Should be right around 22+- depending on tire. The frame does run small, but it feels good....needs dirt on it though.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

redmr2_man said:


> I bought strader's frame earlier this week (few posts up, tire clearance issues) and built it up yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks good, the head tube length looks long, 160mm?


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

yeah, it's very long @ 160.


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

well I'm working with the guy I bought the frame from, but right now it isn't rideable. The dropouts/alignment must be wrong. I've tried many different wheel/tire setups and the non-driveside rubs with even a very small volume 2.1, and even some 2.0's, while the driveside has great spacing.

Fan. Tastic.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

strader said:


> I think I may need to get something more AM oriented like the On-One 456.


If I were to do this whole carbon HT thing again i would have paid the extra ~$200 (depending) to buy an On One 456. I'm contemplating selling my ebay bike now and buying a 456. Good luck.


----------



## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

slabber said:


> Anyone?


Bueller?

I found a photo of it too in my files... Seriously, if anyone knows who sells this model, I'm still keen on tracking down a 15" frame.

Or, perhaps, if they're not being sold anywhere, it could be due to the fact there were issues with this frame design...


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

i am riding my ebay carbon hard front tail  now for a couple of weeks and i just love it. how this baby accelerates and how fast it goes is just amazing. The frame is very stiff, but the ride with the rigid exotic carbon fork is just boneshaking  however, its very different from my trance x and thats why i like it very much. 
it's not finished yet, I need to put some other pedals, tires, crank and cassete on it. Then i will find out how much it weights.


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## QuantumXL (May 19, 2011)

From the reviews it seems like this is the way to go. I am not willing on spending $1000 on a frame that I am going to be buying from Ebay anyways. So I might as well dish out $300-400 on a frame that I am going to purchase. Anyways that is a bad excuse for getting this. I built a bike from scratch (with an aluminum frame) in 16". I am 5' 8" and I thought it would be JUST enough. Come to find out, I feel like the BB crank is way to close to the front steering column. So occasionally I would crash my knees into the stem (and a Thompson stem is pretty durable). So I think it was time for a frame upgrade... Even though it's not an upgrade, more like a change in the drawing of the build. So the frame from Flyxii.com or e_baygoods was the way to go. I purchased one yesterday in the hopes that it would come before I can't ride anymore (NY U.S.A.). However, If not I will have the chance to ride it next season. So basically all the components are waiting for the frame. The only thing I need to do is pick up a Semi-Integrated ZS Head set. Still trying to determine which one I want.


----------



## chinaman (Jun 8, 2007)

Has anyone tried this frame? Sorry but I am not able to tell from the photos posted here ... cheers ...

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace


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## damjan_v (Jan 18, 2011)

the orange, white one on this page and mine, 2 posts above, are the same. I just love it!


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

chinaman said:


> Has anyone tried this frame? Sorry but I am not able to tell from the photos posted here ... cheers ...
> 
> eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace


I posted within the last few pages, or even the page we're on that I purchased my frame from that same seller. My frame is different but the specs are probably about the same.


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## kimare (Oct 5, 2011)

illegalsmile said:


> rides like a knife, climbs wonderfully
> needs, new pedals and the fork would like to be painted.





illegalsmile said:


> I had Cherry and the fine folks in China paint it, i said matte orange and they said give use a PMS color and I said Pantone 717 with matte finish and it was done... I've ridden it once, today. It rode well on the road from my house to the trails and even better once on the dirt!
> 
> I want the bike to be orange and black, halloween stylee the white works but i'm not a big fan. Fox's stupid stickers are a pain to remove without a heat gun.


Halloween is nice these days . I love the colour of your bike do you mind if I order a bike with the same nice orange Halloween theme? (Not that I actually care what you answer )


----------



## texasbuzzard (Oct 29, 2011)

*first post and plans*

Howdy, 
I have been researching these frames for just a bit and I am thinking of pulling the trigger but I may be snagging the FS frame. I noticed that nobody (that I have seen) has built one up and reviewed yet but I can try it. 
I have a black (yeti made?) 1999 schwinn homegrown XC in a size 15 that I am using as a parts bike and I plan on selling the frame to subsidize the FS carbon frame. The schwinn only has 200-300 miles on it including one stint of the MS150. I bought it in '99 and never really used it and then loaned it to one of those hens that is friends with my wife. It may be heavy but I am looking to just get more active and involve my 10 and 8 year old boy. I have been running but they think that is pretty boring. 
I am 5' 10" and 225# of finely tuned bacon so I will put a little stress on my bike but I don't jump, downhill, epic drops, etc, etc, I have a job and a mortgage so there is that. 
I will try and keep everybody posted with my buys and build pics, also my sells to finance this thing. 
Post some links for a good ebay FS carbon pics, I am looking too but I won't buy until the Schwinn frame sells. Pics after I get it back this afternoon.

Please remember I am new to bike builds and carbon and...everything else on this site, I appreciate helpful comments

Go Cougs!!!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

These cheap Asian FS frames are crap, that's why no one is building them. it takes a huge leap in engineering to go from building a good HT to building a good FS frame. And these companies aren't yet willing to take that leap at these price levels and build a quality frame.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> These cheap Asian FS frames are crap, that's why no one is building them. it takes a huge leap in engineering to go from building a good HT to building a good FS frame. And these companies aren't yet willing to take that leap at these price levels and build a quality frame.


Crap is a little harsh. But I do agree with everything else. The cost of these frames is a little high given that:

1. They are an unproven design. There is no way to know how it will perform.

2. They weigh just as much as an aluminum frame. If carbon is not light, then whats the point?

3. They use a cheap Kind Shock, instead of a "real" shock.

Really the only thing they have going for them is looks. I might be willing to try one out if I could get it for $300 without the shock.

You might want to check out this thread in the 29er forum. It looks like some of them might be getting a 29er version.
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/dual-suspension-chinese-carbon-29er-737952-post8443538.html


----------



## texasbuzzard (Oct 29, 2011)

I did see a couple on ebay and they were double the price of the HT. Little steep. I can do the HT then. That matte orange model is too sick.


----------



## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I need to get some better pics, but here's my new Chinese rigid.
This framset rocks! Internal cable routing works very well, and the brakes don't require the adapter plates. The ride is super nice. This frame replaces an older model Chinese frame I had, that had bosses for both v-brakes and discs. The finish is unidirectional gloss clearcoat.


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

That is a sweet looking bike! What kind of fork is that, it looks tough.


----------



## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

ljsmith said:


> That is a sweet looking bike! What kind of fork is that, it looks tough.


I got the frame and fork as a set from Carbonal. It's a full carbon fork including the tapered head tube and dropouts. Super beefy and light.


----------



## willywilly (Mar 19, 2011)

nice. i like that black and blue.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ljsmith said:


> Crap is a little harsh. But I do agree with everything else. The cost of these frames is a little high given that:
> 
> 1. They are an unproven design. There is no way to know how it will perform.
> 
> ...


1 + 2 + 3 = crap.


----------



## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

jeffw-13 said:


> Looks like they're doing full suspension now, too. Never cared for cable guides on the top of the top tube.
> 
> https://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Carbon-Full-Suspension-Frame-L-19_W0QQitemZ370344474896QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMountain_Bikes?hash=item563a403910


does anyone have a good link to this frame?


----------



## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

never mind. found it.


----------



## dpom (Nov 1, 2011)

Can you post a link to the bicyclemarket frame above?

I found this one, looks like the same thing:
ebay item # 270836290295

Does anyone know of any 29er FS Chinese out there?


----------



## nate. (Oct 10, 2010)

dpom said:


> Can you post a link to the bicyclemarket frame above?
> 
> I found this one, looks like the same thing:
> ebay item # 270836290295


same one,


----------



## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

turbogrover said:


> I need to get some better pics, but here's my new Chinese rigid.
> This framset rocks! Internal cable routing works very well, and the brakes don't require the adapter plates. The ride is super nice. This frame replaces an older model Chinese frame I had, that had bosses for both v-brakes and discs. The finish is unidirectional gloss clearcoat.


Nicely done!


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## Hanssen (Nov 11, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> These cheap Asian FS frames are crap, that's why no one is building them. it takes a huge leap in engineering to go from building a good HT to building a good FS frame. And these companies aren't yet willing to take that leap at these price levels and build a quality frame.


Agree on that. Fs frames are completely out of quality. There are now much more better frames and these are far from being good.


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## torreyaz (Jul 17, 2011)

Look at the dude's bike in the background. Now that's quality man!


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## PhxChem (Aug 4, 2010)

torreyaz said:


> Look at the dude's bike in the background. Now that's quality man!


And TOTALLY carbon fiber......


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Those old GT LTSs were a hot bike back in the day


----------



## lemus (Aug 17, 2008)

a lot of people picked them up at interbike for 300 bucks,..regret not jumping on 1


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

torreyaz said:


> Look at the dude's bike in the background. Now that's quality man!
> 
> View attachment 652511


hey, its good enough for that road hes riding on, lol


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Looks like he's scratching an itch*



torreyaz said:


> Look at the dude's bike in the background. Now that's quality man!
> 
> View attachment 652511


...on that GT if you know what I mean.


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## Kyle201 (Jun 24, 2011)

Hey guys.... I recently built up one of these frames, but I'm afraid I ruined it.... using a torque wrench for the front derailleur clamp instead of feeling it... using less than 3Nm, and I hear a loud CRACK, and see a visible one when I take the clamp off... looking down the seat-tube with a light, there's nothing abnormal, and it appears to be just the clearcoat maybe? what do you guys think...

sleekupload.com/uploads/5/img_0914_1

sleekupload.com/uploads/5/img_0917_1

Can't post links apparently... but just copy them and add .jpg to the end if you care... any input is appreciated


----------



## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Here are your pics


















Yes you cracked the seat tube. 3nm is way too much torque for a derailleur clamp on a carbon frame. I recommend usuing carbon assembly paste on the clamp and using just enough torque to keep the clamp from moving. You are not going to be able to get any help from the sellers of these frames. But if you are handy you could use a carbonology repair kit to fix it (I have done this with a Trek and it came out great). But because the derailleur has to clamp here, it is going to be difficult because the size of the tube will get bigger. In which case you would have to look for some type of braze on style derailleur mount if a standard derailleur won't fit

Repair & Moulding Kits


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## Kyle201 (Jun 24, 2011)

Hmm... I actually did report this to the seller, and they said they'd report it to the factory. Then he told me they could send me a new one if I just pay the postage! Which is pretty cool actually, but he was responding quite quickly after my messages up until then, and it's been a couple days since I inquired about the postage price and how that transaction would work... so we'll see I guess.

At least it seems like they might try and help  for now.... I'm just going to keep riding it, seems sturdy enough... and just keep checking if the crack spreads.


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## Kyle201 (Jun 24, 2011)

So I was refunded 80% of my total purchase price, for damaging it through my own fault. Not so bad for a chinese ebay vendor eh? I'm happy at least


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

I've gotta say, I'm pretty jealous. I had an issue with a frame I got from them (carbon dropouts molded wrong) and the guy who I bought it from refused to contact them. I've heard nothing but great things about them. Jealous that mine didn't get taken care of the same way!


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## Kyle201 (Jun 24, 2011)

Ah that's a shame. Manufacturer flaws should be covered always.. I was crushed when I heard the snap before I even got to ride it, thinking I wasted my money, having no warranty or service and wouldn't be able to ride it. But I was pleasantly surprised... which vendor did you buy from? I'd recommend 'e_baygoods' if you ever purchase another one.


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## PatrickK (Apr 26, 2007)

Kyle201 said:


> So I was refunded 80% of my total purchase price, for damaging it through my own fault. Not so bad for a chinese ebay vendor eh? I'm happy at least


I am very happy for you. Who did you buy it from? Chinese warranty is better than Trek's crappy policy. lol


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## wezeph (Dec 5, 2011)

Did somebody already build up a Dengfu FM038 frame with a Shimano XT 3x10 group?
Any problems with setting the right height of the front derailleur?


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## sm007h (Dec 6, 2011)

Everytime I see a thread like this I get tempted to bite and then remember how broke I am


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## mntlion (Aug 30, 2005)

what frame/buyer are you guys using for the 29er, single speed?
actual frame weight?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Do a search for that. There are a lot of threads about carbon 29ers.


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## mntlion (Aug 30, 2005)

but not much about a ebay, carbon, 29er, that is pre-set up for single speed use...

or maybe my search skills suck. I can find info on the BB30 to EBB adapters, but can't find anything on bikes that have this to start with.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

mntlion said:


> but not much about a ebay, carbon, 29er, that is pre-set up for single speed use...
> 
> or maybe my search skills suck. I can find info on the BB30 to EBB adapters, but can't find anything on bikes that have this to start with.


Go to the 29er forum and search for the thread on Chinese frames . . . . pages and pages and pages of info.


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## Genshammer (Jun 30, 2006)

*Damaged*

If while tightening the clamp you heard a crack, it's most likely you damaged the frame. Even though it might look okay on the outside, carbon fiber typically breaks from the inside out. Here's an example of what the inside of a tube looks like after tightening down the derailleur clamp too much:

Hidden Frame Damage « Carbon Fiber Bike Frame Repair

This is easily repairable. Not sure how much you paid for the frame or if you even want to fix it, but we can make it like new again. Repairs start at $200 and all repairs are 100% structurally sound and cosmetically perfect.

If you want more info, just check out examples of our work and our experience with composites at our website below.

Sincerely,


----------



## porsche914 (Dec 29, 2011)

I just received a carbon frame from aliexpress and i'm trying to get a headset. The head tube ID is 44mm. Would any of these headsets work? Does it have to be a "zero stack" headset?

I don't have enough posts to show links yet, but, here are the ebay auction names and numbers:

VP A41AC CANE CREEK HEADSET 28.6MM/44MM internal #320619910379
GUB TEAM II Internal Headset 1-1/8" GA-44 - 5 colors #350516955659
TOKEN Internal Headset 28.6MM 1-1/8' 44MM NEW IN BOX #220693926755
RITCHEY WCS PRESS semi Internal Headset 1-1/8' 44MM #220815931367
Cane Creek 40 Series Zero Stack 1-1/8" Threadless Straight 44mm Black ZS44/28.6 # #280796705873

I am on a tight budget, so i hope i don't have to shell out for the cane creek when cheaper alternatives are available.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

porsche914 said:


> I just received a carbon frame from aliexpress and i'm trying to get a headset. The head tube ID is 44mm. Would any of these headsets work? Does it have to be a "zero stack" headset?
> 
> I don't have enough posts to show links yet, but, here are the ebay auction names and numbers:
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor, shell out for the Cane Creek.


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## porsche914 (Dec 29, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Do yourself a favor, shell out for the Cane Creek.


besides quality, i'm guessing, is there any reason to get the cane creek?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

porsche914 said:


> besides quality, i'm guessing, is there any reason to get the cane creek?


That's the only reason needed.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well if your going for quality why not a Chris King headset?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ Cane Creek is good enough. Best bang for the buck.


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## porsche914 (Dec 29, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> ^ Cane Creek is good enough. Best bang for the buck.


I think i'd rather get a cane creek over a chris king and save my money for where it'll really make a bigger difference.


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## illegalsmile (Apr 11, 2008)

So I've been riding orangie since.... july'ish I think and it's awesome. I find myself riding this ebay carbon fiber more often than my new giant reign that i bought at the same time i built this bike up. I abuse this bike and it holds up like a champ. It's light, fast and solid in many ways. I want those same properties in a small 4-5" travel FS.

Any threads or experiences with the ebay carbon full suspension frames?


----------



## malex001 (Jun 4, 2007)

any news?
anyone has this frame?









what is the weight? (for what size)
how is it going..?

thanks


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## san0 (Dec 24, 2011)

I love your bike - beautiful.


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

an update on mine from a few pages back



















Went 1x9 with a 38t a few weeks ago. It's 22.9 with garmin, pedals, 2 cages, and tube taped to top tube.

Just under 22.5 without the tube. Bike absolutely rips. The heavy ust rear tire just failed, so it will get even lighter. But honestly, at this point, you don't need it any lighter.


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## pesouza (Nov 11, 2010)

turbogrover said:


> I need to get some better pics, but here's my new Chinese rigid.
> This framset rocks! Internal cable routing works very well, and the brakes don't require the adapter plates. The ride is super nice. This frame replaces an older model Chinese frame I had, that had bosses for both v-brakes and discs. The finish is unidirectional gloss clearcoat.


What rims are these man?
Thank you.


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## pesouza (Nov 11, 2010)

My 2009 ebay carbon frame! From Brasil!


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

Is anyone else having rear tire clearance issues? I ordered a set of Continental Trail Kings in a 2.2 and they didnt fit in the back... Will definitely post some pictures of my bike when i get the chance


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## nick1000 (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm running Kenda 2.1 Small Block 8's and it is definitely tight but do-able. I only ride this bike on dry hard-pack though. If ride a lot of mud you might grind your way into the frame.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm running Conti Race king 2.2, and have a ton of tire clearance. Depends on what frame you're talking about.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

It's been pretty well written about that one of the downsides of a lot of these frames is the lack of tire clearance for most tires near 2.2 - my frame probably wouldn't fit most 2.2's. Right now I run WTB exiwolfs in 1.95.

The problem I'm having is from time to time while I'm riding the rear wheel will move a little bit in the dropout which then causes the rotor to rub against the pads. It can get so bad that if I pick the bike up and spin the tire it won't spin 1 revolution. I'm tightening the skewer down as hard as I possibly can. There is no rhyme or reason for when it happens either; went for an easy road ride w/wife yesterday. In 1 hour I had to re-tighten it 5 times, basically everytime I stopped to check it. Today, went for a 2 hour mtn bike ride with an hour on some really rocky/rooty trail. No problems everytime I checked it. I use the bike for racing so it's really screwing with my head about what I should do with the frame.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

I havent had anything like qdawgg's problem with the rear tires but I just ordered a Panaracer Fire Pro XC 2.1 for the rear and traded my 2.2 for a 2.4 Trail King for the Front. Im hoping the Panaracers fit because i hear that they are a little smaller than they are listed and I wanted something a little bigger than the 1.8 Im using right now. 

(For reference I'm using the medium sized a_baygoods frame)


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Kinetic07 said:


> I havent had anything like qdawgg's problem with the rear tires but I just ordered a Panaracer Fire Pro XC 2.1 for the rear and traded my 2.2 for a 2.4 Trail King for the Front. Im hoping the Panaracers fit because i hear that they are a little smaller than they are listed and I wanted something a little bigger than the 1.8 Im using right now.
> 
> (For reference I'm using the medium sized a_baygoods frame)


I bought the same frame - might be a different "style" but same seller and size. I know that the WTB exiwolf's in 2.1 also seem smaller then 2.1's. I run 1.95's of the same tire but only because they were on sale.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

qdawgg said:


> I bought the same frame - might be a different "style" but same seller and size. I know that the WTB exiwolf's in 2.1 also seem smaller then 2.1's. I run 1.95's of the same tire but only because they were on sale.


How is the clearance on the 1.95 Weirwolfs in the rear? And on a side note how do you like them?


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

I actually really like them a lot. The only time they haven't exceeded my expectations is on a downhill of really loose gravel, think access road at a ski mountain and when it's really muddy. These are conditions the tires rarely see so I don't care. On technical (rocky/rooty) trails and faster trails the tires are incredible. I can't say enough about them honestly. Your friends will probably laugh at you when they see your skinny tires compared to the 2.55 tires they're running (and don't need) but they are fast tires and hook up on anything but the 2 conditions I mentioned. 

Good tire clearance too - no issues. If you want a pic I'll put one up.

** Let me clarify the downhill thing. Every downhill I've run for the last year or so the tires have been incredible. On a practice run at the world cup the tires washed out and I went down real hard. I think it was just a weird coincidence and I just hit a loose rock too fast while rounding a corner. At the actual race (citizens race) I was passing people on the downhills and cornering fine.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

That would be great actually qdawgg because if the Panaracers dont fit the Weirwolfs are the next option


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## bigdog100 (Sep 13, 2009)

Has anyone purchased frame, fork and rims from same company? I am looking to build a rigid single speed for fun. However, I am a little skeptical on these carbon chinese forks. I am 6' 205. I would like to order from same place to save shipping $$.


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

Kinetic07 said:


> That would be great actually qdawgg because if the Panaracers dont fit the Weirwolfs are the next option


Try to do that tomorrow - load a pic.

They are the exiwolf's BTW not the weirwolfs. Although I do have 1 weirwolf that I used as a front tire awhile ago and I liked that tire also. The last time I looked for exiwolf's I did have trouble finding them. They don't list that tire any more on their site but you can still find them if you look a little. Probably either of the 2 "xc racing" tires they do currently list would fit though if you couldn't find the exi's.


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## Kinetic07 (Jul 23, 2011)

On an unrelated note, has anyone tried to run a 185 or 203mm rear rotor with this frame or will the stress be too much on the rear triangle?


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

Kinetic07 said:


> That would be great actually qdawgg because if the Panaracers dont fit the Weirwolfs are the next option


i have the tire clearance problems as well.

the wolverine 1.95 fits, i dont think weirwolfs come in anything smaller than 2.1

the maxxis crossmark 2.1 is small and fits. Great tire for xc. lasts forever too!

the maxxis highroller 1.95 is SMALL, like a 1.8 but fits with tons of room but wears quicker than the others listed.

I'm currently on a hutchinson python 2.0 tubeless light. No rides on it yet but it fits great.

Hope this helps!


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

What 26" ebay carbon frames DO fit a 2.25 for sure?


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## aaronjbryant (May 25, 2012)

*Compilation?*

I've looked around and I can't find a compilation thread that actually makes use of the _wealth_ of information in this one. I was going to start one with a question, but I can't because of my post count. I know some of the sellers are better than others and there are certain things you want to know (like what factory your bike came from, spec sheets, etc) before buying. Can we organize this info somehow? Maybe make a factory/seller list and rate the experience/ quality of the product with notes on what you would need to pay attention to? I'm looking to make a purchase in the next week and I want to make sure I do it right, but I don't want to just go, "tell me what to get." I saw 29er related material (uuugggghhh!) but I was having trouble finding 26 hardtail info that was comparable. I apologize in advance for any perceived stupidity/insolence/laziness. Just looking for a starting place.


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## aaronjbryant (May 25, 2012)

*Is this thread dying?*

I purchased an FR-209, from FLYXII's ebay seller, should be in in a couple of weeks if the estimation is right. Has anyone purchased one of these recently? Just trying to find some info on it...


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## Tomstallan (Aug 31, 2012)

Hi guys, I thought I would join the forum after seeing this thread. It’s a very interesting read, although I haven’t read it all! About 2 weeks ago I decided to buy a carbon from a_baygoods, model being FR215.

Overall I am very pleased with the quality of the frame but it came with a bottom bracket bore for the BB30 type when I ordered one with the 68mm BSA bottom bracket bore. Instead of sending it back and having all the hassle and massive wait I decided to buy an adapter so I can use the bottom bracket that I want and a shimano crankset. This fitted lovely and another result was the company refunded me $60. Another small issue with the frame is that the bore in the frame for the seat post is a little bumpy, causing the seat post to rock slightly (have put a small amount of sticky foil on the seat post to fill it out)

The frame was purchased as a bundle with the rigid front forks that they offer, which are also well made and are very light! Other items ordered through the same seller was a carbon seat post, carbon stem and carbon flat handle bars. Very pleased with all of these! I bought some XTR dual control levers to fit to the bike as I love them on my dad’s bike and think they look very neat, the only problem was that once I won the auction I realised the front and rear callipers where IS mount, whereas the frame is for post mount callipers. I did some research and found there was only one adapter for the front to fit a 160mm disc, but thought I’d make one instead as you can see from the photo. The rear calliper is impossible to fit while still using a 160mm disc so I have bought an xt m875 calliper to fit in its place. Once I received the item I found out that the banjo bolt is not included, so I made one to see if I can save time again. I tried bleeding the brake today and had no such luck! Because I didn’t know any dimensions I had to guess where the step and hole position was. Tomorrow I will go to the local shop and ask them to get a proper banjo bolt ordered in

All I am waiting for now are my discs and the banjo bolt and I am ready to go. Minus the few issues, overall I am extremely pleased with the rest of the bike and think it looks fantastic with all the carbon and doesn’t weigh hardly anything.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

No carbon fetish for me.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

aaronjbryant said:


> I purchased an FR-209, from FLYXII's ebay seller, should be in in a couple of weeks if the estimation is right. Has anyone purchased one of these recently? Just trying to find some info on it...


The popularity of 26" bikes is unfortunately dying. I think most people are now building 29" carbon hardtails.


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## robbiexor (Aug 22, 2011)

How much are you in for, Tomstallan?


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## charlesinoc (May 17, 2009)

illegalsmile said:


> rides like a knife, climbs wonderfully
> needs, new pedals and the fork would like to be painted.


It's beautiful. I would own one as a back up bike. lol. but I'm broke.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

illegalsmile said:


> If I were to do this whole carbon HT thing again i would have paid the extra ~$200 (depending) to buy an On One 456. I'm contemplating selling my ebay bike now and buying a 456. Good luck.


Do you mind sharing why you would go with the steel frame next time? I sure do like the matte pantone orange too.


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## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

*My first build project ever*

Hello All.

I am new here. I'm an American living in the French Alps. This has been a very informative thread and I am going to pick up a 19" 3k frame from a_baygoods.

I am getting their model number FR-204... I can't post links or images yet being a newbie.

I recently purchased a one year old used (basically unused!) Rockrider 8XC Aluminum, for the equivalent of $600 in Euros. For those of you outside Europe, this is a high spec bike sold by Decathlon, basically a sports department store in Europe.

It's actually quite light already at 23.1 pounds for my size 19"

I realise I am not going to lose much weight but I am still pretty stoked to build one of these China Carbons with the parts from it.

This is what I am going to strip off:

Shimano's XTR series wheel set with Kenda 26 X 2.1 tubeless. CLEARANCE PROBLEMS MAYBE?

Rear derailleur: Shimano XTR Shadow model

Front derailleur: Shimano XT

Crankset: Shimano XT(22x32x44)

Shifters: Shimano XT

Shock: Rock Shox Reba Team with 100 mm of travel and Motion Control.

Brakes: Juicy 7 Carbon with 160 mm discs front and rear.

Pedals: X Pedo SLCR's.

The seat post, handlebars and stem I have might or might not work but I am going to replace them anyway.

Any comments on my components working for this project, my very first build??

Many thanks to all!!


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Welcome! Looks like a good buy on that donor component bike. It was pretty light already. You might be able to resell the frame too.

Does the Rock Shox Reba have the right size and a long enough steerer tube?

I don't see any clearance problems with Kenda 2.1 tires. 2.35 and up start to have potential clearance issues depending on the tire and if it is muddy riding.

The seat stem may be a size larger on the carbon bike.


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## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

mbrick said:


> Welcome! Looks like a good buy on that donor component bike. It was pretty light already. You might be able to resell the frame too.
> 
> Does the Rock Shox Reba have the right size and a long enough steerer tube?
> 
> ...


Thanks mbrick. I need to investigate the Rock Shock size issues. I'm not an expert on the subject yet.

I think I need to establish if it is a 1 1/8 or 1.5 to 1 1/8 tapered?

This is the shock I have:

*RockShox Reba Team Dual Air 2010 Forks Product Description

Travel: 80/100/120mm
Damping: Blackbox Motion Control, Dual Flow
Spring: Dual Air
Crown: Forged, Hollow Al66 Tv Aluminum
Steerer: Aluminum, 1 1/8" Or 1.5 To 1 1/8" Tapered*

I'm just getting back into riding after several years away and my last bike was rigid.

Thanks alot for your input.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Exactly! And also to confirm the length of the steerer and make sure it isn't cut too short for the new frame.

Since it looks like the fork came in both varieties you can either pull it off the bike and look, or try and look up the spec for your frame. Might be more efficient to pull it off the bike so you can check the length and size against the new frame.


----------



## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

OK this is great advice and I appreciate it. I would have ordered the frame without knowing this and might have had a problem on my hands.

Many thanks...


----------



## LSiena0206 (May 2, 2006)

I'm waiting on my frame. I ordered a 
DIY 100% Carbon MTB Mountain Bike Frame 20" Hi-Quality Toray Fiber  in MATT

from "three_seasons"

Pro 3k Weave Glossy Matt 100% Carbon Fiber Mountain MTB Frame 15" 17" 19" 21" | eBay

I placed the order on Aug 27. They replied last week an Oct 9th shipment.

So, I have a long wait for this. They have been very helpful with their responses. 
I also ordered a headset for the bike through them for $20 shipped. They listed it shipped on Ebay 9/9 but they really shipped it on the 21st.... no explanation for the date difference. So, it may be Thanksgiving before I get the frame !
Oh well, I think I should have looked into the On-One Whippet frame first, looks like the same frame, just $50 more.

I plan to post it as I build it up. I want to do a 1x9 WW with a rigid carbon fork.

Good luck with yours !


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## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

mbrick said:


> Exactly! And also to confirm the length of the steerer and make sure it isn't cut too short for the new frame.
> 
> Since it looks like the fork came in both varieties you can either pull it off the bike and look, or try and look up the spec for your frame. Might be more efficient to pull it off the bike so you can check the length and size against the new frame.


I pulled it off and it is a tapered version. And the length is fine. Cheers.


----------



## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

After re-reading through this entire thread again, it appears that I won't be able to use my low-mount XT front derailleur. Bit of a bummer with my small cash budget for this build. Everything else I have will work though...


----------



## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

I have a high mount XT front laying around. You can find them on ebay for cheap as well.


----------



## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

The chinese seller just told me my XT low mount would work with the 19" FR-207 frame so I'm going to go for it... cheers


----------



## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

The FR-207 is item number 350604233652 on ebay. I can't post links yet being a newbie...


----------



## Partime biker (Aug 18, 2010)

*This thread really helped me*

First post, first build, first everthing. I got my frame from Flyxii.com, FR-201 19". It weighted 1174 grams including the rear derailleur hanger. I have 2.1 Racing Ralphs on it with 3/8" clearance on the rear. I also ordered a seat post, water bottle cage and bars from Flyxii. No shipping charges, I have been very pleased with them. I made a 1X9 with 100mm forks. It called for 80mm but was told you could go 100mm but no more. 20lbs. 4oz., including Crank Brothers 3 pedals. I love the bike, I can climb so much better than with my 27lb. F/S bike.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Interesting, a supplier of the same parts outside of ebay. I'm surprised it isn't a bit cheaper (in comparison) but still a really good price for a 2.4lb frame! Nice to hear it climbs better to as a real world comparison!

You should also put up some photos of the completed bike.


----------



## burundanga (Sep 19, 2012)

The seller e_baygoods (and a_baygoods) sent me the link to flyxxii.com to look at the fr207 with the tapered steering tube that he sells so they must be the same people.


----------



## Partime biker (Aug 18, 2010)

I noticed several different companys sold the exact same frame. In some cases it was the same pictures. I paid $330 for the frame. I'm an old guy (54) just been riding 2 years. I need to see if my daughter knows how to post pictures.


----------



## AlexAbroad (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi everyone, haven't posted in a while. Just wondered if anyone had any experience of this company's road frames? My brother and I were considering building one up, but neither of us no a great deal about road bikes...


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## LSiena0206 (May 2, 2006)

Check out Velobuild.com. They have a load of carbon road frames from a couple suppliers. Plus they have a great forum and several group buys.

I just bought a FM098 from them yesterday. I'll post back my experiences if you're interested.


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## AlexAbroad (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks, it would be good to hear first hand experiences. And thanks for the link!


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## StanGoodvibes (Jan 19, 2013)

I just bought an FM038 last week. From Alibaba. The chick in the online chat was super-helpful and I managed to get the right BB30, tapered head, frame to match my cranks and fork but now the obvious question...

WHICH headset??? I've search for "FM038 headset" and read all the threads and I'm still no closer to working it out. I know I need IS42/28.6 - IS52/40 but is the bottom of the head exactly 52mm? Can I used a semi-integrated headset or does it have to fully integrated? The supplier suggested the generic Neco headset but I'd like something a bit flasher.

Anyone?


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## dirtdan (Jun 27, 2011)

Tomstallan said:


> Hi guys, I thought I would join the forum after seeing this thread. It's a very interesting read, although I haven't read it all! About 2 weeks ago I decided to buy a carbon from a_baygoods, model being FR215.
> 
> Overall I am very pleased with the quality of the frame but it came with a bottom bracket bore for the BB30 type when I ordered one with the 68mm BSA bottom bracket bore. Instead of sending it back and having all the hassle and massive wait I decided to buy an adapter so I can use the bottom bracket that I want and a shimano crankset. This fitted lovely and another result was the company refunded me $60. Another small issue with the frame is that the bore in the frame for the seat post is a little bumpy, causing the seat post to rock slightly (have put a small amount of sticky foil on the seat post to fill it out)
> 
> ...


Bar ends with carbon fiber handlebars is not recommended...


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## qdawgg (Jun 21, 2007)

danhasdrums said:


> Bar ends with carbon fiber handlebars is not recommended...


Uh oh


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## ecaos (May 5, 2008)

Hi there! I read the whole, yes the whole post, thanks all for all your input and time put on this topic, I found it very helpful. 

I'm considering moving from my aluminum 2007 Marin Indian Fire Trail to one of this Chinese carbon frames. After looking at what's available now, I'm between the FR-207, I like the internal cable routing and the post mount for the rear disc brake (x-goods puts it at 1300gr) but it's tapered (my FOX RL100 is not), I found it's very similar to FM038, the head tube and derailleur hanger look a little different though, I can't tell from the pictures if the TT too. 
My other option is FR-209, I like that it seems to be a little lighter (x-goods puts it at 1100gr) and is not tapered, just don't like the cables routing on top of the TT.

Well, does anyone have some recent experience buying, building and using this frames? seller, price?
From a "recent" post it seems that I will be able to use my top swing XT front derailleur, but I would confirm once I get the frame. The only two other things I'm expecting to play with are a shim to use my 30.9 FSA carbon seat post and the headset which depending on the frame I get I'll have a couple of ways to go. 

Thanks a lot! lets see if this post gets revived.
Saludos from Baja!

ps. FR-201 could be a 3rd option.


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## carbon4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Yea, I built a FR-201 still like it. Was thinking about trying to build a F/S. That was why I looked on here to see if there was any chatter about F/S. I was post 1181 and 1184. Forum changed a few months back I guess, and changed my name. Never did post any pictures, I guess I should have.


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## sergeysy (Jun 15, 2009)

my flyxii fr-219 with light-bicycle carbon wider rims and china replica "gravity droper" TMars


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## gbug (Jul 20, 2010)

Finally finished the build on my Shenzhen ZhongWei 26er. My first build from the frame up, so pretty happy with how it turned out. Currently at 23.8lbs with pedals/bottle cages. Should be real close to 23lbs after I go 2x9, put on a lighter saddle, rotors, and cut a bit of seatpost.









Can't wait until race season!


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

sergeysy said:


> my flyxii fr-219 with light-bicycle carbon wider rims and china replica "gravity droper" TMars


sergeysy
How's the replica dropper post going? Is it only a single drop (4"?) or does it also have an intermediate point?

Thanks

Tim


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## axl886 (Oct 15, 2012)

Thinking of transferring a full XT drivetrain from my Monty to a:

FSM083 - Far Sports

My question is: if I opt for the version with an English BB, can my XT BB and cranks fit without any adaptor? If not, what's the best choice then?

Not easy trying to unearth a reputable CHN carbon frame seller from the vast seas of the interwebz.  Thanks...


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## ecaos (May 5, 2008)

axl886 said:


> Thinking of transferring a full XT drivetrain from my Monty to a:
> 
> FSM083 - Far Sports
> 
> ...


Hi,
there are different standards, the best you can do is figuring out what type your bottom bracket is and go with that, just buy the frame accordingly, so you don't need any adapter. 
I recently bought a carbon frame from X-Goods (it's the same vendor as FLYXI), their communication was good and shipped fast. I'm about to post some pictures and my experience with this vendor which was very satisfactory. Talking to them they gave me a 15dll discount, sent me some extra brake line guides as I didn't want to run mine internally, and sent me two extra derailleur hangers all for free.


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## ecaos (May 5, 2008)

Here's mine! I bought a FR-207 frame, 3k gloss size 17" headset included, from x-goods: free shipping, good communication, they gave me a 15dlls discount, sent for free 2 extra derailleur hangers (just ask, it's really good to have a spare) and the brake line guides as I was anticipating to run it externally. I also bought 2 carbon water bottles for 10dlls each, originally 11.50. They were very opened to bargain a little.

So total price for the frame was 330.00, weight 1180gr and besides a couple of very small (almost unnoticeable) cosmetic blemishes the frame looked really well made and finished. I wonder if these are the frames that can't be sold to the big brands.
I had no problem putting the bike together with all the parts from my 2007 Marin Indian Fire Trail, I needed to replace the transmission so I got brand new cassette, derailleurs (front one needed to be high clamp) chain and chainrings, as I had to replace them anyway I took advantage and turned it into a 2x9 so I got a 36t middle ring. I just needed to buy a 1 1/8 to 1.5 adapter for the fork as the frame is tapered and my fork isn't as well as a shim (30.9 to 31.6) to be able to use my carbon seatpost. 
I just took the bike for her first ride to Noble Canyon in SoCal, it's a very technical trail, with tight curves, lots of rocks, steps, etc. Immediately I could tell the difference from my aluminum frame as the impacts felt way less harsh. The frame felt really solid, light and maneuverable. It din't take me anytime to adjust and felt comfortable and confident riding it. After the ride I inspected the frame not finding any damages, cracks, etc. It held very well.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

keep the bikes coming. I want to slowly build my own but saving for a wedding FTMFL!


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## Minley1 (Apr 4, 2012)

This is my Carbonal Modest SL 26er

Forks: Rock Shox SID RCT3 100
Bars: Easton EC90
Stem: Easton EC90
Stem Cap: Mt Zoom
Spacers: Mt Zoom Carbon
Headset: Trailbright Ceramic internal
Grips: Token Loc on
Bar Ends: Easton EC90
Front Brake Lever assy: Shimano XTR Race M985
Front Caliper: Shimano XTR M985
Front Disc: Quaxar Iris 160
Lock Ring: KCNC 
Rear Brake Lever assy: Shimano XTR Race M985
Rear Caliper: Shimano XTR M985
Rear Disc: Quaxar Iris 160
Lock Ring: KCNC
Hoses: Shimano BH90
Shifters: Shimano XTR M975
Cables: Shimano XTR
Front Mech: Shimano XTR M971
Rear Mech: Shimano XTR M971
Seat: Sele Italia Thoork
Seat Post: KCNC Ti Pro Lite 8000 31.6 x 400
Seat Post Clamp: MT Zoom
Cranks: Shimano XTR M965
Chainring(s): Specialites TA C116 44/32/22
Chain: SRAM PC991
Cassette: Shimano XTR M970
Lock Ring: KCNC
Pedals: Shimano XTR M970
Bottom Bracket: Trailbright Ceramic
Front Wheel: Mavic XC717 26"
Hub: Shimano XTR M975
Tube: Specialized
Tire: Schwalbe Rocket Ron Evo
Back Wheel: Mavic XC717 26"
Hub: Shimano XTR M975
Tube: Specialized
Tire: Schwalbe Rocket Ron Evo
Weight: 9.55 Kg (inc Pedals)


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Here's my 1X9
Flyxii FR 207 3K 26'r
Crest rims/Circus Monkey HDW3 hubs/Sapim Race spokes (built by me)
X.9 9 speed Grip Shift/short cage rear der.
SLX cranks/32t Blackspire Mono Veloce
Hygia Usagi brakes
Exotic Seatpost
Hylix 660mm flat bar
CB Eggbeaters
Conti Race King Sports tubeless
2011 Rock Shox Sid RL (Ebay bargin)
Tioga Twin Tail saddle
BBG Bashwich



About 20 lbs as it sits
Cranks/BB/pedals/shifter from my old bike. About $1250 to build up, very happy with it.


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm building up another one as soon as it arrives here...


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

turbogrover said:


> I'm building up another one as soon as it arrives here...


Nice. What frame is that? By the way you get credit for helping me to go with Chinese carbon and build up my own light weight wheel set after seeing your first build. Oh and for turning me on to Hygia brakes too. Thanks


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

robc in wi said:


> Nice. What frame is that? By the way you get credit for helping me to go with Chinese carbon and build up my own light weight wheel set after seeing your first build. Oh and for turning me on to Hygia brakes too. Thanks


Thanks! Your bike turned out great! I'm getting another Carbonal SL frameset. I'm getting the frame, handlebars, seatpost, and rims from Carbonal. I have all the other parts ready to go. I went with a 18" instead of another 16". I want a little more TT length. I should post a build up thread somewhere...


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## TurkishCA (May 5, 2013)

I am just waiting on a few more parts for buildup of mine. 
Fr201 19 frame.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

My hygia suck. Do yours work well?


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

I have two sets of Hygia brakes, and they both work great! They also use shimano pads, so replacements are easy to find.


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## salmonsalar (Oct 26, 2013)

StanGoodvibes said:


> I just bought an FM038 last week. From Alibaba. The chick in the online chat was super-helpful and I managed to get the right BB30, tapered head, frame to match my cranks and fork but now the obvious question...
> 
> WHICH headset??? I've search for "FM038 headset" and read all the threads and I'm still no closer to working it out. I know I need IS42/28.6 - IS52/40 but is the bottom of the head exactly 52mm? Can I used a semi-integrated headset or does it have to fully integrated? The supplier suggested the generic Neco headset but I'd like something a bit flasher.
> 
> Anyone?


Hello mate!
I am in the same situation.
Just ordered the FM038 with BB30 and 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" head.
My fork is not tapered, it is straight 1-1/8".
I am struggling to find a headset that fits the frame and also fits the fork.
I guess a reducer headset will make the job but what dimensions to choose? It seems to be a djungle out there when it comes to dimensions and standards for headsets.
Bottom bracket is solved! I have a Shimano M770 crankset but there are BB30 brackets that fits to the 24mm crank set. puuhh!


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## Crantak (Sep 29, 2013)

Hello all. I'm hoping I was right to post in this existing thread and not start a new one.

I'm looking to make my bike into a bit of a winter runabout and slowly build up a new one with a 26" carbon frame and right now I'm trying to make sense of the 26er choices on flyxii.

Forgive the ignorance but if I want to be using my straight steerer forks for the next few months do I want to get a tapered head tube and use an adapter, giving me more choice of forks in the future? If that is the case would the FLX-FR-207 have a tapered head tube?


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

turbogrover said:


> I'm building up another one as soon as it arrives here...


Where can I buy those silver chain protector. Like the one on the frame close to the bb.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

pretty sure it is formed into the frame, part of the layup, not an add on.


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## jamesd1980 (Mar 22, 2014)

Ok ive been seeing these frames they are full carbon mtb by matt mountain on ebay for 300 bucks has anyone ever bought one or no if they are worth a crap seem kinda cheap to me for a full carbon frame and its a 29er


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## aktan01 (Apr 4, 2014)

I ordered a Flyxii FR-201 matte carbon frame. It arrived and looks fantastic!
However, I have a problem with the headtube. It is supposed to have a top ID of 42mm and bottom ID of 52mm. The top is fine but the bottom is a smidge small at 51.5mm. 
As such, the supplied Flyxii headset cannot fit.
I did managed to source for a FSA C-40 ACB tapered headset that can fit but as I intend to use my straight 1-1/8 steerer fork on it, I need a corresponding reducer. Anyone can point me to one that I can use to achieve this? 

BTW, I confess, I am a newbie on this subject.

Thanks and best rgds


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## Minley1 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi aktan01,

What you need is a crown race reducer, I had to do the same on mine (Carbonal Modest SL)

This should do it:

FSA Integrated Crown Race Reducer > Components > Headsets and Spacers > Headsets | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## aktan01 (Apr 4, 2014)

Minley1 said:


> Hi aktan01,
> 
> What you need is a crown race reducer, I had to do the same on mine (Carbonal Modest SL)
> 
> ...


Hi Minley1,

Thanks for the info. I was a little confused cause there were a number of reducer models on the FSA web page and I wasn't sure which to use with my C-40 headset.

Jenson's page does not specify the outer diameter of the reducer either.

You using a FSA C-40 as well?


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## Minley1 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi,

No I have a Trailbright headset, the reducer I bought was from Superstar, not sure on the Diameter actually, I ended up messaging the supplier of the frame he then pointed me in the right direction.
Maybe email Flyxii to see if they can recommend one?


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## aktan01 (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi,

I contacted Flyxii and the instructed me to 'knock in' the headset. If the frame broke, they will send me another! While the recourse is assuring, I am still a little hesitant to do this before finding out if the other FR-201 owners have encountered this issue and what alternative headsets they are using.

Thanks for all inputs.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

These frames typically come with a ton of over spray clearcoat on the headtube area. Its normal to lose clearance due to the excess found there. You can try to remove the excess if you have any with some acetone, but be careful not to get any on you frame. I had to do the same in order to install the bearings from the included headset with my frame as well.

Hmm, not so many 26ers being built these days it seems...


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## aktan01 (Apr 4, 2014)

I did clean the headset cups but no go. I went to a bike shop and tried a FSA set which had lower bearings measuring 51.8mm and it fitted perfectly ie it went in with a light push and stayed snug. The headset also worked with the FSA crown race reducer. Now I can get some sleep...

So, lessons to note:
- integrated headsets come in either Campy, Cane Creek or TH Industries (ie FSA) flavours and each has a myriad of sizes. 
- a 52mm bearing might not fit into a 52mm headtube! You need to physically measure the headtube inner diameter cause the bearing/headtube figure could be rounded up.
- another aspect to pay attention are the bearing angles. I was told Cane Creek uses 36/45 degree bearings, while TH (FSA) uses 45/45 degrees.

Cheers.


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## Pasi (May 9, 2014)

*#Newb warning#*

My flyxii fr-215 is about to arrive, I'm in Thailand, and ordering parts from ebay, and I have a specific question on the internal cables. I did some reading in these threads, and it seems that mostly people with bb7s went for Jagwire or Alligator cables, which are 5mm thick.
I emailed flyxii, and they said the cables can only be 1.5mm for brakes and 1.2mm for the derailleurs. Now I dont know what to order.

I don't want to be at the mercy of the LBS offerings, can anyone advise me on how to proceed?

Pasi Arasola

*edit*
User PM'ed the answer. Rear brake cable housing should fit at 5mm thickness (reported by hydrolics user, i will use bb7). Rear-der. wire goes in 'naked'.


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## Pasi (May 9, 2014)

My headset was a really snug fit, but I decided to follow the quoted flyxii advice from above, having seen people do it successfully in the 29er thread. We banged the headset in with a tube and a mallet, and it was all good.
Its rainy season here, and after my first rainy commute, the frame had half perhaps 50ml of water inside. The water is bad enough, but its muddy and there were sand particles too. Any opinions or advice on the matter? Its a commuter, not commuting is not an option.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Pasi said:


> My headset was a really snug fit, but I decided to follow the quoted flyxii advice from above, having seen people do it successfully in the 29er thread. We banged the headset in with a tube and a mallet, and it was all good.
> Its rainy season here, and after my first rainy commute, the frame had half perhaps 50ml of water inside. The water is bad enough, but its muddy and there were sand particles too. Any opinions or advice on the matter? Its a commuter, not commuting is not an option.


Following the above advice i got the lower bearing installed. It works fine but after some light trails there is sand and grit in that area so i am wondering what the service life will be, especially since these are pretty low quality bearings. Pounding the bearing in was one thing but removing it may prove problematic, i really should have used a bit of grease.


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## Triggsie (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm looking at building an FR-207. I can't find what axle to crown fork is recommended for the frame. I have a Reba but would also like to run rigid for gravel riding.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Triggsie said:


> I'm looking at building an FR-207. I can't find what axle to crown fork is recommended for the frame. I have a Reba but would also like to run rigid for gravel riding.


i measured my fr 203 (same geometry)with carbon fork, it is 460 mm. I bought the frame and fork off ebay , the frame was fine but the fork brake posts were wrong. I went to the manufacturer for a replacement.Moral of the story is buy stuff directly from fly xi as it is the same price and shipping included
Bike Fork - ShenZhen Flyxii Spor


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