# Why do we have to look at his face



## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

Please MTBR no longer accept ads for products that sponsor any person that has been found to have cheated thru use of using performance enhancing drugs thereby robbing an honest competitor of their well deserved victory.










Sorry,

Hank :nono:


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Well at least you posted a semi-permanent version of the ad for all to see. I'm sure that's not perpetuating your concern in any way.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Consider me an outsider with the following questions...
Did the USADA or UCI release the proof that he cheated? 
Did they get him with a failed test?
Could this have been a witch hunt?
Does the man not get a break at all considering he whooped cancer's ass and then with just one nut beat the hell out of those frenchies?


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## AdamAlter (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't get it:
-He likely doped, all the top pro cyclists were likely doping, even before him
-He likely lied, all the top pro cyclists have likely lied when asked at some point, or all along

I guess it's a matter of the fact that he dominated the sport and was a better at doping and lying that people are finding this passionate hate for him and act like the rest weren't "cheating". 

I care as much about pro cycling as I do cat herding, but the bandwagons haters and tax $ spent has been quite annoying.

Next we should investigate Mr. Olympia for steroids and lying, using my tax $! Wait, I heard a rumor there's an NFL player out there roiding, could it be true?!


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I just look slightly to the left.
Problem solved.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

joshh said:


> Consider me an outsider with the following questions...
> Did the USADA or UCI release the proof that he cheated?
> Did they get him with a failed test?
> Could this have been a witch hunt?
> Does the man not get a break at all considering he whooped cancer's ass and then with just one nut beat the hell out of those frenchies?


LOL, here we go again...

Yes the USADA provided mountains of proof, paper trails, eye witnesses, communication and email records, financial trails, positive tests that were buried by the UCI, but lance knew he would be made look worse if he fought it so he decided to not use his one nut and answer to his moment of judgement.....

Yes he failed a few tests of which where covered up by his team doctor and the USADA had the proof of that aswell.

A witch hunt lol, if you call a witch hunt having tonnes of unsurmountable evidence that showed the biggest liar and cheat in the history of sport for what he was as a witch hunt thats your go.

I can see you have not read any of the USADAs report and read none of the numerous threads in here, you need to do some research and dont forget to renew your membership to the ''flat earth society'':thumbsup:


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## nemhed (May 2, 2010)

Be the best cheater and the best liar, that's what I always tell my kids! Yeah, I'm sick of his face, I'm even sick of the name "Lance". I'm especially sick of excuses. Is it any wonder I loathe professional sports? I say delete this thread along with all the other Lance threads everywhere on the interwebs!

I can't believe I got sucked into posting on this thread!:madman: STUPID STUPID STUPID!


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

nemhed said:


> Be the best cheater and the best liar, that's what I always tell my kids! Yeah, I'm sick of his face, I'm even sick of the name "Lance". I'm especially sick of excuses. Is it any wonder I loathe professional sports? I say delete this thread along with all the other Lance threads everywhere on the interwebs!
> 
> I can't believe I got sucked into posting on this thread!:madman: STUPID STUPID STUPID!


LOL, Yer, lets delete everything and pretend it never happened:thumbsup:


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

just as a support follow up to trail's great suggestion..
it's ok, he's just like the rest of us now anyway..







PED-Free fried mayonaise balls are deelishush!


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Well at least you posted a semi-permanent version of the ad for all to see. I'm sure that's not perpetuating your concern in any way.


The OP is just putting up the example of what his talkin bout, nothing wrong with that, its up everyday 24/7 for everybody to see anyway, i agree with him, anybody or any company generating money from using his image has little values or morals, that goes for the company that is running the ad and for the people taking money from giving it advertising space, its poor form.


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## A1an (Jun 3, 2007)

Seeing that MTBR has no control over the FRS marketing campaign it would make more sense to write a strongly worded letter to FRS as opposed to whining about it here. My .02


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

Trail Ninja said:


> I just look slightly to the left.
> Problem solved.
> 
> View attachment 737428


Has anyone verified this is a girl, I hope so, otherwise i have also been checking out dude bum for a while.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Well he has been showin his ass so much lately someone probably figured we all need a fresh look at him.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Tone's said:


> LOL, here we go again...
> 
> Yes the USADA provided mountains of proof, paper trails, eye witnesses, communication and email records, financial trails, positive tests that were buried by the UCI, but lance knew he would be made look worse if he fought it so he decided to not use his one nut and answer to his moment of judgement.....
> 
> ...


You would be correct, I haven't read the USADA report, and since I joined the forum recently (read: today), I really haven't burned through a whole lot of the previous threads here. I had not seen any news articles on his covered up failed tests, just articles talking about the ridiculous amount of time that the USADA spent going after him.
So in light of such a polite response, I would like to leave you with the following...

We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand

Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
(Rick Rolled)


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

How about this as a low tech solution?

View attachment 737435


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## Lance Strongarm (Oct 10, 2012)

7 times. That is all.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Tone's said:


> The OP is just putting up the example of what his talkin bout, nothing wrong with that, its up everyday 24/7 for everybody to see anyway, i agree with him, anybody or any company generating money from using his image has little values or morals, that goes for the company that is running the ad and for the people taking money from giving it advertising space, its poor form.


Just pointing out the irony of complaining about the use of a certain person's image while simultaneously posting that person's image.

Companies like that don't have a thousand person PR firm handling the minute details of where every ad is posted on every site nor do they have (I assume) the disposable income to pull ads that they have paid to place.

All you sensitive little babies who can't handle one individual in a sea of cheaters who has been prosecuted for their cheating need to toughen up a little. Where was the public outrage when Hamilton went down or Landis? Is it because Armstrong beat cancer? Is it because he has more endorsements or a higher profile? Is it because everyone had some preconceived notion of road cycling that has now been sullied?

Perhaps what needs to be investigated is everyone's need for hero worship. Guess what; like him or not, he used his "ill-gotten" posture as a sports hero to do actual good for the world. Perhaps that's why I'm sick of this Armstrong bashing. He cheated; but let's not be naive, everyone was cheating. Does that excuse the behavior? No, strip his titles and ban him from cycling. But let's get the f over it, people. If he inspired one person to pick up the fight against their cancer then I'm sure he'll count it all worth it. I am inclined to agree; at the end of the day, cycling is just a sport where skinny guys in tight clothes see who can get one of the world's oldest form of transportation to a point more quickly than the others can. But cancer, that's a pretty big deal.

Perspective, man.

Side note: If you had AdBlock on your browser then you wouldn't ever see that image.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

joshh said:


> You would be correct, I haven't read the USADA report, and since I joined the forum recently (read: today), I really haven't burned through a whole lot of the previous threads here. I had not seen any news articles on his covered up failed tests, just articles talking about the ridiculous amount of time that the USADA spent going after him.
> So in light of such a polite response, I would like to leave you with the following...
> 
> We're no strangers to love
> ...


BWAHAHAHAHA Mate love your work, that Rick Astley song is hillarious, more so that he is touring oz as we speak, love your sense of humour, nice response, im out of rep atm but your the first one on my list tomoz, and welcome to the site mate, cheers:thumbsup:


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)




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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

DirtyHank said:


> Please MTBR no longer sponsor ads that use that disgraceful person that has shamed our sport and our country.
> 
> Sorry,
> 
> Hank :nono:


I think you've got it wrong. MTBR doesn't sponsor ads... THEY sponsor MTBR. And MTBR doesn't really have control over who its sponsors want to feature in their ads.

If you don't like Lance being used as a spokesperson for a product, don't buy it!

And if you don't like seeing him in ads, stop looking or get an ad blocker and stop whining about it.


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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

Just be glad you didn't do this:









Or this:









:lol:


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

skiahh said:


> I think you've got it wrong. MTBR doesn't sponsor ads... THEY sponsor MTBR. And MTBR doesn't really have control over who its sponsors want to feature in their ads.
> 
> If you don't like Lance being used as a spokesperson for a product, don't buy it!
> 
> And if you don't like seeing him in ads, stop looking or get an ad blocker and stop whining about it.


1. Corrected
2. I won't FRS is probably Full of Rotten Stuff anyway.
3. I'll go the Post-it-Note cover up route, I like it!

Hank


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Just pointing out the irony of complaining about the use of a certain person's image while simultaneously posting that person's image.
> 
> Companies like that don't have a thousand person PR firm handling the minute details of where every ad is posted on every site nor do they have (I assume) the disposable income to pull ads that they have paid to place.
> 
> ...


''Perspective, man'' 
Its funny you mentioned that because thats your perspective not mine and not others..
Him beating cancer has nothing at all to do with his cheating and lying.
Yes cancer is a massive deal in life, but whether you like it or not, this story is the biggest story of deceit, manipulation, lying and cheating from an individual in the history of sport.
It will never be put to bed, not as long as lance lives in denial.
I respect your opinion as long as you respect others that have the opposite of yours.
cheers....


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## Bigfoot (Jan 16, 2004)

Truth in advertising.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

didn't his doctors beat the cancer?


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

so you're telling me there's advertizing on the internet now? And on this site?
news to me



if you see any ads, it's your own choice. Adblock does a fantastic job, as do others. It took a lot longer for you to write this complaint about an ad than it would have to make sure you never saw it, or any other, again.


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

The whole time every time, when lance comes up:


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

Joules said:


> so you're telling me there's advertizing on the internet now? And on this site?
> news to me
> 
> if you see any ads, it's your own choice. Adblock does a fantastic job, as do others. It took a lot longer for you to write this complaint about an ad than it would have to make sure you never saw it, or any other, again.


I'm using the next generation ad block on chrome that runs a facial detection software. When a questionable image comes up, it handles it nicely.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)




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## Lance Strongarm (Oct 10, 2012)

View attachment 737441


Or this:

View attachment 737445


These guys are true fans. :thumbsup:


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

heyyall said:


> I'm using the next generation ad block on chrome that runs a facial detection software. When a questionable image comes up, it handles it nicely.


I got the upgraded version:


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Tone's said:


> ''Perspective, man''
> Its funny you mentioned that because thats your perspective not mine and not others..
> Him beating cancer has nothing at all to do with his cheating and lying.
> Yes cancer is a massive deal in life, but whether you like it or not, this story is the biggest story of deceit, manipulation, lying and cheating from an individual in the history of sport.
> ...


But if him cheating doesn't have anything to do with cancer, then why so much outrage? Is sport that big of a deal? Is a bicycle race this big of a deal? He typically didn't even compete in any of the other grand tours throughout the year leaving him to focus singly on one race; yes that race was the one with the highest prestige in the USA and probably throughout the world, but it's not like this guy was Merckx.

Maybe people need to get out and ride more, pay less attention to some famous ******* bike rider, and try to escape this meaningless maelstrom of public outcry.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

zebrahum said:


> But if him cheating doesn't have anything to do with cancer, then why so much outrage? Is sport that big of a deal? Is a bicycle race this big of a deal? He typically didn't even compete in any of the other grand tours throughout the year leaving him to focus singly on one race; yes that race was the one with the highest prestige in the USA and probably throughout the world, but it's not like this guy was Merckx.
> 
> Maybe people need to get out and ride more, pay less attention to some famous ******* bike rider, and try to escape this meaningless maelstrom of public outcry.


maybe people feel like he stole money and it hurts them to think they believed his lies and they are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact they were duped.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

Tone's said:


> ''Perspective, man''
> Its funny you mentioned that because thats your perspective not mine and not others..
> Him beating cancer has nothing at all to do with his cheating and lying.
> Yes cancer is a massive deal in life, but whether you like it or not, this story is the biggest story of deceit, manipulation, lying and cheating from an individual in the history of sport.
> ...


i'm with tone on this one. 3 people very close to me have lost to cancer in the last 4 yrs and to suggest that he can use the disease as a get outta jail free card of sorts... f that, respectfully, ofcourse.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> But if him cheating doesn't have anything to do with cancer, then why so much outrage? Is sport that big of a deal? Is a bicycle race this big of a deal? He typically didn't even compete in any of the other grand tours throughout the year leaving him to focus singly on one race; yes that race was the one with the highest prestige in the USA and probably throughout the world, but it's not like this guy was Merckx.
> 
> Maybe people need to get out and ride more, pay less attention to some famous ******* bike rider, and try to escape this meaningless maelstrom of public outcry.


LOL, Yes last time i looked sport is a ''big deal'' for many, i enjoy the tour for many reasons and havnt missed one for years, i really have no idea what your trying to imply with bringing up the constant link of him having had cancer and being a drug cheat, i dont even take it in to consideration , i have no idea how there is a link drawn between him having had cancer has somehow created more public out cry.
If you are looking to ''escape the meaningless maelstrom of public outcry'' i suggest you take your own advise and get out and ride more, because the ironic thing is your adding to it by posting in this blog, it seems your giving the subject plenty of attention just like you bought up the irony of the OP posting the picture of lance.
If you wanted to pay ''less attention to some famous ******* bike rider'' your not doing a very good job of it by giving him the attention you are at the moment....
cheers.:thumbsup:


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

53119 said:


> i'm with tone on this one. I've lost 3 people to cancer in the last 4 yrs and to suggest that he can use the disease as a get outta jail free card of sorts... f that, respectfully, ofcourse.


I hope I wasn't mis-interpreted to think that I suggested this. I absolutely did not mean that he deserves some sort of immunity due to his cause or disease. I meant to suggest that he probably feels himself justified; for better or for worse.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

zebrahum said:


> I hope I wasn't mis-interpreted to think that I suggested this. I absolutely did not mean that he deserves some sort of immunity due to his cause or disease. I meant to suggest that he probably feels himself justified; for better or for worse.


ok. i did misinterpret that then. got admit that the c word pisses me off in general. no offense meant z.


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## PerfectZero (Jul 22, 2010)

this topic


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Tone's said:


> LOL, Yes last time i looked sport is a ''big deal'' for many, i enjoy the tour for many reasons and havnt missed one for years, i really have no idea what your trying to imply with bringing up the constant link of him having had cancer and being a drug cheat, i dont even take it in to consideration , i have no idea how there is a link drawn between him having had cancer has somehow created more public out cry.
> If you are looking to ''escape the meaningless maelstrom of public outcry'' i suggest you take your own advise and get out and ride more, because the ironic thing is your adding to it by posting in this blog, it seems your giving the subject plenty of attention just like you bought up the irony of the OP posting the picture of lance.
> If you wanted to pay ''less attention to some famous ******* bike rider'' your not doing a very good job of it by giving him the attention you are at the moment....
> cheers.:thumbsup:


I was asking questions. I don't understand why this has escalated to such a big deal. A man cheated in a race full of cheaters, got caught, and is getting punished for it. So why do we care? I postulate it could be due to the fact that his story of battling a disease has caught the attention of major media outlets, but I don't know. Personally, I'm just glad to see that a sentence has been brought down against him and the companies that have supported him have backed down. That is enough for me; I don't harbor some deep resentment which makes me intimately concerned whether or not Nike takes him to court for sponsorship money because why should I?

It's really hard to have a discussion with you, Tone because it seems like you're not even considering my position on this. You're simply reading some of the words I type and then going off on your own semi-related rant. Why such personal involvement [all]? Is this sort of personal investment a good idea in a sports figure, especially in a sport known for the deviancy of circumventing the doping rules? How did we, as a cycling community, come to embrace this individual with such fervency that we have ignored the evidence mounting for many years from witnesses, teammates, and so on? I'm certainly guilty of writing off the accounts of the French media as biased. Has this man's back story overcome the power of accountability? Well I guess it certainly had done that.

Listen, you all are keeping this moving when you read the articles in newspapers, magazines, or listen and watch news reports about it. You want Lance to go away? Stop caring about Lance. He's just another cyclist in the long line of dirty cyclists, successful as he was. I'm just enjoying being a wet blanket to a witch hunt that's ended and whose crowd doesn't know where to turn their pitchforks next.

How could a thread titled "Why do we have to look at his face" not have spiraled out of control and into insanity? The title is over the top dramatic; it's like we're all 13 year old girls and we got dumped for the first time. "I don't ever want to see his face again! If I do I'll just scream!".

Perspective, all.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

53119 said:


> ok. i did misinterpret that then. got admit that the c word pisses me off in general. no offense meant z.


I'm really sorry, my mom had a bout as well so I certainly didn't mean anything like that.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Deja vu all over again...
Yogi Berra


The phase determining guilt is over. The lawsuits have begun. 

Please, please let this thread die. :thumbsup:


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

And we are still going everybody.....











June Bug said:


> Please, please let this thread die. :thumbsup:


No way man, look at all the highly valued information thats in it already


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

marpilli said:


> Just be glad you didn't do this:
> 
> View attachment 737441
> 
> ...


Do what? Get shitty tattoos? Too late, I have some.


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## Howeler (Sep 23, 2005)




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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

Guerdonian said:


> And we are still going everybody.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More like this...


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## GhostRing (Feb 29, 2012)

Joules said:


> if you see any ads, it's your own choice. Adblock does a fantastic job, as do others.


This.

MTBR is _way_ faster with Adblock and NoScript


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## 11 Bravo (Mar 12, 2004)

PerfectZero said:


> this topic


That dog needs some dope. Then he could pull that root out no problem:thumbsup:

Hey, isn't Lance's doctor available?


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## gnewcomer (Jul 2, 2011)

joshh said:


> Could this have been a witch hunt?
> Does the man not get a break at all considering he whooped cancer's ass and then with just one nut beat the hell out of those frenchies?


+1 This

gnewcomer aka OldMtnGoat


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

marpilli said:


> Just be glad you didn't do this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When did Ted Levine win yellow?

"It wins the tour de france, or it gets the hose again!"


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## SonnyP (Nov 15, 2012)

I read this interesting article about a hypothetical situation where the use of steroids was legal in professional sports. They questioned whether or not Lance would have been able to win with all his competition juiced...

The short answer is, no, probably not.


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## kingbozo (Jan 31, 2004)

zebrahum said:


> ... but it's not like this guy was Merckx.
> 
> .


Merckx also doped.


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## kingbozo (Jan 31, 2004)

fotu said:


> When did Ted Levine win yellow?
> 
> "It wins the tour de france, or it gets the hose again!"


Just about spit my beer everywhere!


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## bridger (Dec 7, 2010)

*here we go again*

mob psychology. they all cheated. maybe now the sport will be cleaned up and "fast stages" will actually be slower.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Amazing how fast people turn on you these days.

Everyone loved Lance when he was winning. 
As soon as he is accused of doping people turn their back on him even though there is no real proof. 

That being said, sure I believe he probably did it but could really care less. 
If I saw him in public, I would still buy him a beer too. 


I don't by his products but if I did, I wouldn't stop just because of this.
After this post though, I may just start buying them.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

SonnyP said:


> I read this interesting article about a hypothetical situation where the use of steroids was legal in professional sports. They questioned whether or not Lance would have been able to win with all his competition juiced...
> 
> The short answer is, no, probably not.


But weren't quite a number of top riders accused and/or found guilty of cheating as well? He was going up against competitors that were juicing and he beat them.
Now it may be more helpful in rding than other sports (I honestly don't know), but juice alone won't do it for you.

Take Barry Bonds for example. It was obvious he juiced, even though he never technically got caught. But the juice alone didn't help him hit all those homeruns. Other, natural skills, were involved as well. Steroids didnt help his hand-eye coordination, or his ability to hit a curve or slider down and away. It helped his swing speed, and helped him hit the ball harder. If you can't hit a curve or a fastball, all the steroids in the world won't help.

Just like riding. I could juice all day long. Without extensive training, and superior equipment I'm not gonna be able to jump on any old Huffy and beat anyone in a race.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Tone's said:


> BWAHAHAHAHA Mate love your work, that Rick Astley song is hillarious, more so that he is touring oz as we speak, love your sense of humour, nice response, im out of rep atm but your the first one on my list tomoz, and welcome to the site mate, cheers:thumbsup:


Thanks man. Wasn't sure how my response would be taken. Glad to know folks can take a joke and have fun around here. :thumbsup:


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## bigbadwulff (Jan 18, 2012)

So you complain about having to see his face by posting his face? Makes sense...


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## SonnyP (Nov 15, 2012)

joshh said:


> But weren't quite a number of top riders accused and/or found guilty of cheating as well? He was going up against competitors that were juicing and he beat them.
> Now it may be more helpful in rding than other sports (I honestly don't know), but juice alone won't do it for you.
> 
> Take Barry Bonds for example. It was obvious he juiced, even though he never technically got caught. But the juice alone didn't help him hit all those homeruns. Other, natural skills, were involved as well. Steroids didnt help his hand-eye coordination, or his ability to hit a curve or slider down and away. It helped his swing speed, and helped him hit the ball harder. If you can't hit a curve or a fastball, all the steroids in the world won't help.
> ...


A number of top riders doesn't mean all of them. Of course solely using steroids is going to get you no where in any sport. The equipment and dedication has to be there. And if other top athletes were on steroids, then that would also be the reason they were competitive. If every rider was openly using steroids without the worry of being caught, I highly doubt we would be commending the same group of athletes.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)




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## eastspur (Jan 25, 2009)

kjlued said:


> Amazing how fast people turn on you these days.
> 
> Everyone loved Lance when he was winning.
> As soon as he is accused of doping people turn their back on him even though there is no real proof.
> ...


I've actually been a long time Lance hater so it's nothing new nor surprising. He has a reputation of having an ego the size of the state he lives in. If you live in the same city you hear plenty of stories. Even some direct experiences. There's no way in hell id buy him a beer.


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

*Live and Let Live*

It's hard for me to not become emotional about Lance Armstrong, It's not really Lance, but rather about anyone that cheats. As far as I'm concerned cheating at anything is an insidious thing to do. It breaks the second golden rule "To love your brother as yourself".

It's like finding out that your Mom or Dad slept around all those years and the parents and the home you learned to love so much was just a sham.

Kids have heroes and why not? We have all had influential people we looked up to growing up. Mine happened to be a custom car guy who at 29 had nine children, worked all kinds of hours into the night customizing 55 Chevy's and early Corvettes. I had respect for him as a craftsman, a husband and father of nine. It would have been easy for him to hit on any number of chicks that hung out with us guys at the shop. I don't think he was a cheat, I never saw anything that seemed to indicate or hint at that
.
To me sports is something that attests to the magnificence of the human being as a species. If you have ever worked in the field of robotics you'd be amazed to find out just how big of a robot you would need to design to accomplish the tasks a human body is capable of.

When I look at this video for example I am amazed that a human being is capable of this.

FINALS Red Bull Rampage 2012 - Highest level of Mountain Biking - YouTube

It shows Kurt Sorge's victory run at Red Bull Rampage. What it represents to me is a lot of hard work and probably a lot more injuries getting to that skill level than I could ever dream of withstanding even in my worst nightmare
.
When people are excellent at something it's usually because of a whole lot of hard work and self sacrifice.

As far as my rage about Lance Armstrong goes, it's really not about Lance. I feel sorry for the guy and I feel sorry for the guys who worshipped him. To find out your hero is a farce is never a good thing.

I really feel more sorry for the rider standing next to him on the Podium. The "second place" guy or even someone that came in an unrecognized fourth, but was the first "clean" rider and in reality the rightful winner. He didn't take home a million dollars, didn't get the endorsements that may have changed the lives of his immediate and extended family but worked hard as hell to become a true champion and was cheated out of his victory.

I started this thread. It's old news by todays standards now let Lance alone. Let judgement be what it is, but now tell me what you think about the consious decision to use or not use performance enhancing drugs in sports any sports competition.

I think I already know what your answer will be,

Hank :bluefrown:

P.S. I have edited post #1 and removed the picture of Lance. I agree with your comments as far as posting a picture of the face you want to forget". In it's place is a mirror. I'm going now to look at mine now.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

kjlued said:


> Amazing how fast people turn on you these days.
> 
> Everyone loved Lance when he was winning.
> As soon as he is accused of doping people turn their back on him even though there is no real proof.
> ...


As soon as he was accused, some people turned their backs and started vilifying him. That happens with anything. If you had a friend who was accused of child molestation, you'd probably start putting distance between you and him, for example.

Pre-report, his sponsors, UCI and most people took him at his word and stood with him.

Once the report came out, there was plenty of proof... enough for a court of law where the standard would be beyond reasonable doubt, and people reacted appropriately.

Post-report, however, sponsors, the UCI, Tour de France and most people realized they had been duped.


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## Cobretti (May 23, 2005)

eastspur said:


> There's no way in hell id buy him a beer.


I wouldn't either. But I would offer him the last swig or 2 of my beer, just before I grab another 1.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

marpilli said:


> Just be glad you didn't do this:
> 
> View attachment 737441
> 
> ...


ROFL I hope those were photoshopped or sharpie. It is fun to see everyone is still up in arms. (Warning the following may make irrational people upset, but if so it probably applies to you ) Quit worshiping people for useless accomplishments and maybe you won't have your hopes and dreams dashed in the future. If a kid wants a hero then have it be someone who did something useful, and they will likely still be a jerk. It is rare to find any person who excels and doesn't end up with a ridiculously over sized ego.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

eastspur said:


> I've actually been a long time Lance hater so it's nothing new nor surprising. He has a reputation of having an ego the size of the state he lives in. If you live in the same city you hear plenty of stories. Even some direct experiences. There's no way in hell id buy him a beer.


Ok, maybe he is a complete ass. 
Or maybe he just gets tired of grown men begging him for a photo op and an autograph.

I dunno and I could care less. 
I would certainly base my opinion on personal experience and not "he said she said".

That being said, this is not about Lance Armstrong the man, but Lance Armstrong the cyclist. Honestly who gives a rats ass if he juiced. If he didn't, he would never have beaten the all the people below that were slower then him and still juiced.

It is so easy to say you would never do it, but it is a different world when you wrok so hard to get to the top of your field to realize that you can't beat everyone else because they are juicing. So what do you do? Do you do it "honestly" and never get the recognition and the money or do you do roll the dice and do what everyone else is doing? I will put it this way, nobody here would know or care who he is if he never juiced.

Out of about 200 riders in the TDF, I would bet all the majority riders were Juicing and Lance was still better then all of them. That being said, Lance is still the best.

(Btw, no I never have nor will I ever juice, but if I had a chance to win something like the TDF and that is all it took, things may be different).


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

skiahh said:


> As soon as he was accused, some people turned their backs and started vilifying him. That happens with anything. If you had a friend who was accused of child molestation, you'd probably start putting distance between you and him, for example.


We are not talking about child molestation we are talking about performance enhancing drugs. HUGE difference.

So if Lance rapes a little kid then I will make sure I never buy a product that is endorsed by him.

That being said, assuming he did juice, which he probably did, he would have never won and he wouldn't have any endorsements or products to boycott.


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## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

53119 said:


> i'm with tone on this one. 3 people very close to me have lost to cancer in the last 4 yrs and to suggest that he can use the disease as a get outta jail free card of sorts... f that, respectfully, ofcourse.


Don't forget that Lance trashed people's reputations, and tore their lives apart. It goes much deeper than cheating in a bike race.


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## Lance Strongarm (Oct 10, 2012)

Hate the game..............................


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

Lance, I'm nominating you for puppet of the year. You are the most well mannered puppet I have seen.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Lance Strongarm said:


> Hate the game..............................


I will agree

The player didn't make the rules, he just played by them.

In this case, the rules were if you want to win, you have to do what the winners are doing.

If you didn't juice, you wouldn't even be a player.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

kjlued said:


> I will agree
> 
> The player didn't make the rules, he just played by them.
> 
> ...


He didn't make the rules, and he didn't follow them either...


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## Bike Doc (Oct 2, 2007)

*Repugnican Presidential Ticket 2016...*

Repugnican Presidential Ticket 2016:

General David Betray Us for Prez and Lance Dopestrong for V.P!!!


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

fotu said:


> He didn't make the rules, and he didn't follow them either...


Sure he did, the rules were inadvertently changed by all the people in the game that were doping.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)




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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Bike Doc said:


> Repugnican Presidential Ticket 2016:
> 
> General David Betray Us for Prez and Lance Dopestrong for V.P!!!


There's always one person that has to make things political. Maybe they can run against your great and wonderful messiah's American hating best friends Frank Marshal Davis and Bill Ayers. Or if you want to make it the cheater's ticket, the wife of the most famous cheater ever will be there. Hillary for Pres, with John Edwards or Larry Spitzer for VP.
Or we could make it the Democratic tax cheaters for 2016. There's a long list of those folks to go around, approximately 35 in the obama administration alone. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner could be your tax cheating Pres, with Labor Secretary Hilda Solis as the VP.

See how it's not just the political party you hate that has questionable dealings... Your great savior has an administration full of rich tax cheats. He busted Romney's balls for "not paying enough", and touted his plan to raise taxes on the rich. Just not the rich people he employees that don't properly pay their taxes anyways...

(Sorry everyone else, I'm not trying to derail this thread into something political. Just had to respond to that particular post)


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

^^If I could rep you I would (I'm on the phone).

Everyone else: are we _still_ on about this?! Oy vey. Get over it it doesn't matter go do something else and forget the Tour. Who here got pissed when Missy "The Missle" was popped with 300+lbs of sticky? No one I bet and she participated in our branch of cycling.


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## Rojo Grande (Oct 23, 2012)

Sorry to drag this out any longer but do any of you really believe that any of the top riders are not "Enhancing" their performance? Cycling as a sport has been a leader in PED's for a long time. People love a winner................ until he wins to much. Go Yankee's?


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

monzie said:


> ^^If I could rep you I would (I'm on the phone).
> 
> Everyone else: are we _still_ on about this?! Oy vey. Get over it it doesn't matter go do something else and forget the Tour. Who here got pissed when Missy "The Missle" was popped with 300+lbs of sticky? No one I bet and she participated in our branch of cycling.


I don't know if I was pissed. But it sucked in a lot of ways.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

monzie said:


> Who here got pissed when Missy "The Missle" was popped with 300+lbs of sticky?


Apples, meet oranges.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

*let's compare apples to apples*



monzie said:


> ^^If I could rep you I would (I'm on the phone).
> 
> Everyone else: are we _still_ on about this?! Oy vey. Get over it it doesn't matter go do something else and forget the Tour. Who here got pissed when Missy "The Missle" was popped with 300+lbs of sticky? No one I bet and she participated in our branch of cycling.


yeah, it's getting old. he did it. he's busted. it's all out there. only the most staunch, blind fanboi could not accept it.

however, although i agree with you on that imho LA and missy do not equate.

yeah, i was bummed when the DEA got her with 400 lbs of weed and a million in cash. just like LA it's a tragic legacy for a champion.

however, aside from being disgraced after retiring from the sport i personally see few if any similarities between missy's bust and the LA debacle.

did missy use weed to win? no. 
did missy use PED's to win? no.
did she lie, cheat, bully, extort, and cover up failed drug tests with payoffs? no.
did missy's bust have the same negative impact on our discipline as LA's did to cycling in general? no.

she had a public and private reputation for being anti-drug, while lance portrayed the public illusion of being PED free while those on the inside knew exactly what was going on.

missy was a champion because she came out and rode hard and was flat out better than everyone else. her runs generally landed her in one of two places, the podium or in an ambulance. lance was a champion BECAUSE he started using PED's, fixing races, paying people off, and intimidating people. before that he was a lackluster nobody.

i'd suggest that other than getting famous on a bicycle their two situations have very little in common.


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## Lance Strongarm (Oct 10, 2012)

Missy? Must be code. Hamilton? Yeah that fits, crying like a little girl, pathetic.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

Mono, I'm with you on all counts. I was just using it more as drug for drug than long-term or career enhancement. He used drugs, she used drugs. Different reasons and outcomes sure. Merely pointing out the difference in outcry. I guess yeah, perhaps it has to do with the payoffs and wins but I'm not in any caring frame of mind. This whole subject is played out and stupid. Why people care so much is beyond me, suck it up and move on. It's done and over.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

@monzie - you know it's nowhere near done until after the movie, another book, talk show rounds, and perfectly crafted/timed comeback appearance gets shoved up his fanboys' & our culture's ass.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

monzie said:


> Mono, I'm with you on all counts. I was just using it more as drug for drug than long-term or career enhancement. He used drugs, she used drugs. Different reasons and outcomes sure. Merely pointing out the difference in outcry. I guess yeah, perhaps it has to do with the payoffs and wins but I'm not in any caring frame of mind. This whole subject is played out and stupid. Why people care so much is beyond me, suck it up and move on. It's done and over.


i'm not defending what she did, but to be fair there's no evidence she ever did drugs, only sold them. she had a public and private reputation as anti-drug and being clean and sober. lance only had the public illusion of being drug free while those surrounding him knew very well otherwise -- and the decade of illusion and lies is what caused such an outcry. in fact, that's why there's not an outcry for the others that have been busted. they stepped up, took their licks, and moved on. LA still declares innocence.

yeah, i totally agree with you on the discrepancy on outcry. MG's bust didn't garner anywhere near the fallout LA's did on here. but i still don't think it's an accurate comparison for reasons above and in previous post.

i agree with the move on part as well. it's done, lets move on.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

53119 said:


> @monzie - you know it's nowhere near done until after the movie, another book, talk show rounds, and perfectly crafted/timed comeback appearance gets shoved up his fanboys' & our culture's ass.


i'll pucker.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> i'll pucker.


haha. that and a spinning backfist should do the trick!


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

monogod said:


> yeah, it's getting old. he did it. he's busted. it's all out there. only the most staunch, blind fanboi could not accept it.
> 
> however, although i agree with you on that imho LA and missy do not equate.
> 
> ...


Missy wasn't just disgraced, she went to jail for a few years.

Speaking of incomparable. What Lance did was way worse ethically, morally, and perhaps even legally.

But the punishment Missy received was much much worse than what Lance has gotten so far.

This is the craziness of our culture's attitude towards drugs. Pharmacutecals, PEDs, mood stabilizers, no one really gives ashit. But weed, we are going to lock you up and ruin you life! Bye bye.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

fotu said:


> Missy wasn't just disgraced, she went to jail for a few years.


nope.



fotu said:


> Speaking of incomparable. What Lance did was way worse ethically, morally, and perhaps even legally.


yup.



fotu said:


> But the punishment Missy received was much much worse than what Lance has gotten so far.


dunno about that. legally? yeah. however, she doesn't endure the worldwide disgrace he does. think about being lance and showing your face pretty much anywhere. missy doesn't have that problem. nor did she get her titles stripped. nor will she go down in history as the biggest liar and cheat in the history of professional cycling.



fotu said:


> This is the craziness of our culture's attitude towards drugs. Pharmacutecals, PEDs, mood stabilizers, no one really gives ashit. But weed, we are going to lock you up and ruin you life! Bye bye.


yup. booze causes far more deaths and injuries than all others combined. yet it's not considered the public scourge grass is. when's the last time you saw a bunch of stoners do something violent to anything other than a pizza and some snacks? :lol:

either outlaw them all or legalize them all.

and i don't even smoke weed. clean for over 13 years.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

monogod said:


> i'm not defending what she did, but to be fair there's no evidence she ever did drugs, only sold them. she had a public and private reputation as anti-drug and being clean and sober. lance only had the public illusion of being drug free while those surrounding him knew very well otherwise -- and the decade of illusion and lies is what caused such an outcry. in fact, that's why there's not an outcry for the others that have been busted. they stepped up, took their licks, and moved on. LA still declares innocence.
> 
> yeah, i totally agree with you on the discrepancy on outcry. MG's bust didn't garner anywhere near the fallout LA's did on here. but i still don't think it's an accurate comparison for reasons above and in previous post.
> 
> i agree with the move on part as well. it's done, lets move on.


I didn't say she did them, she used them. For monetary gains. I'll concede it wasn't an accurate comparison then. My bad.

Fotu, I'm right there with ya brotha.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

monogod said:


> nope.
> 
> .


I am pretty sure she was in prison during all of those sentencing delays, and was eventually sentenced to time served, when they finally figured it out. She wasn't convicted, and then sitting around her house watching tv and going on rides those 3 years...

"Melissa "Missy" Giove was sentenced Wednesday in U.S. District Court by Judge Gary L. Sharpe to time served, six months of home detention and five years of supervised release."

Pretty sure that's what the mean here by "time served".

Read more: Ex-biking champ avoids prison time - Times Union


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Stay away from Arnold Movies as well.................


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

zebrahum said:


> But if him cheating doesn't have anything to do with cancer, then why so much outrage? Is sport that big of a deal? Is a bicycle race this big of a deal? He typically didn't even compete in any of the other grand tours throughout the year leaving him to focus singly on one race; yes that race was the one with the highest prestige in the USA and probably throughout the world, but it's not like this guy was Merckx.
> 
> Maybe people need to get out and ride more, pay less attention to some famous ******* bike rider, and try to escape this meaningless maelstrom of public outcry.


Is sport that big of a deal?
Welllll, a $500,000 payoff for ending up in yellow every July is kinda big; then you add in $12M/year for marketing endorsements -- all based on lies and deception -- and you will have SOME kind of a deal.

I think the Indy 500, and maybe the World Series, are the only sporting events with the longevity of the TdF; a lot of people consider THEM big deals. Ask the 1919 "Black Sox" if honesty is a good attribute.

I'd already reached my conclusion about 'the Zipper'; this just frosted the cake. I have a bud who doesn't care, says all the others doped, he still beat them, he's therefore still better. But then he's the same guy who, at 31, still thinks that "RIGHT"=good for him, and "WRONG"= not good for him.

It's something to talk about, not something to tear your clothes over. Dust off the Prozac and indulge, dude.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bigpedaler said:


> It's something to talk about, not something to tear your clothes over. Dust off the Prozac and indulge, dude.


You either don't read well or you don't understand what Prozac is for.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

fotu said:


> I am pretty sure she was in prison during all of those sentencing delays, and was eventually sentenced to time served, when they finally figured it out. She wasn't convicted, and then sitting around her house watching tv and going on rides those 3 years...
> 
> "Melissa "Missy" Giove was sentenced Wednesday in U.S. District Court by Judge Gary L. Sharpe to time served, six months of home detention and five years of supervised release."
> 
> ...


no flame war intended by pointing out that she remained free on bond after conviction until sentencing. linky and excerpt:

"_Giove, 37, of Chesapeake, Va., pleaded guilty in December to a felony drug conspiracy charge and awaits sentencing.* Free on $250,000 bond*, she is a colorful athlete once regarded as the fastest female mountain biker in the world._"

as i recall, her time served was that from initial arrest to bonding out, which wasn't very long.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

monogod said:


> no flame war intended by pointing out that she remained free on bond after conviction until sentencing. linky and excerpt:
> 
> "_Giove, 37, of Chesapeake, Va., pleaded guilty in December to a felony drug conspiracy charge and awaits sentencing.* Free on $250,000 bond*, she is a colorful athlete once regarded as the fastest female mountain biker in the world._"
> 
> as i recall, her time served was that from initial arrest to bonding out, which wasn't very long.


fair enough, thanks for the link, i didn't know that. I guess she got off easy, considering Rockefeller laws and such...

i'll just edit this to add that that is actually an interesting article, thanks again.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

fotu said:


> fair enough, thanks for the link, i didn't know that. I guess she got off easy, considering Rockefeller laws and such...


no worries bro. and hey, i'm with you on the getting off easy. no real jail time for getting busted with 400 pounds of weed with intent to distribute taking it across state lines???

wow, she had some killer attorneys!

brilliant to use the gubment's own relaxed attitude towards pot as the framework of their defense.


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