# AFCBike / All RD pulleys & weights



## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

I am listing these as some members were unable to access correct weights in our website.


10T Delrin black pulleys/Shimano/Sram/Campagnolo compatiable/ dual bearing system/10 grams for a pair


Same pulley with same specs as above in white.


10T Alloy pulleys available in Blue and Gold. Same specs as Delrins but weight is 14 grams for a pair


11T Delrin pulleys available in Orange,Blue,White,Green,Yellow and Red.Shimano and Sram compatiable.Single bearing system.
13.5 grams for a pair.


This one is just to show the 11T white colour in a better view.

We believe that Delrin is the best material for pulleys. Better than alloy and carbon.
Our alloy models will run out and we will no longer make them.
Above alloy models and colours still in stock.

Check out our website frequently for new pulley models & colours as well as other parts listings.

www.afcbike.com


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

What is the amount of theet that is standard on Sram and Shimano MTB derailleurs?
What is the difference of the 2 bearing systems showed on the pictures? Can you send me a price in Euro?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

dennis rides Scott said:


> What is the amount of theet that is standard on Sram and Shimano MTB derailleurs?
> What is the difference of the 2 bearing systems showed on the pictures? Can you send me a price in Euro?


can't you count up to 11? Just look at your own deraileur...

older derailleurs had 10t...newer ones from about year 2000 up have 11t.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

why only Turkish languages and not English ?  

that way can permits more access than a thread here ...  

however you got PM


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

dennis rides Scott said:


> What is the amount of theet that is standard on Sram and Shimano MTB derailleurs?
> What is the difference of the 2 bearing systems showed on the pictures? Can you send me a price in Euro?


The amount of teeth on Shimano/Sram RD's pulleys is 11T.
We are riding with 10T jockey wheels for years now on MTB as well as on road bike RD models. Not one single failure and/or performance issue .

Dual bearing vs single bearing: The axial loads on the jockeys are absorbed also via bearings. All manufacturers except one well know Italian company favour single bearing designs with some "bulky" bearing cover caps.
We have smaller bearings in the 10T pulleys BUT there are two in one jockey wheel.
The alloy cover caps there are very thin designed.Therefore you have one of the lightest BUT durable designs.

Allthough new here I suppose that I am not allowed to list prices .
For all pricing pls follow Contact/Intl.Contact link on our website or mail me at [email protected]

Thank you.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

eliflap said:


> why only Turkish languages and not English ?
> 
> that way can permits more access than a thread here ...
> 
> however you got PM


Sorry but we are doing our best to have English text on our website within the next months.

However I have sent you a PM back.

Thank you.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Extralite and KCNC copies? Now that deserves an applause for creativity! :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> Extralite and KCNC copies? Now that deserves an applause for creativity! :thumbsup:


KCNC copies ?...you make me laugh!

Anyway - why don't you applaud them for offering pulleys at MUCH lower cost than Extralite? It's the first time i hear of a turkish company offering high-end bike parts.Well done!


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

sergio_pt said:


> Extralite and KCNC copies? Now that deserves an applause for creativity! :thumbsup:


All constructive criticism is welcome.
There are a lot of options to design a round wheel with teeth and holes in it.Like the one we have in testing currently which looks similar to an other product but is not exactly the same.

Just asking: How many companies have similar if not same design as the "old" M2 Racer skewers?I could easily name three well known companies .

If in your quoted post mentioned companies have similar looking jockey wheels like we do then we are offering different options to the consumer.
Like what one company doesn't have:Jockeys in Delrin.

If a second company is offering Delrin wheels then the consumer has the option with us to choose from different colours.

Further our statement that in future you will be able to purchase
only delrin pulleys from us.
This means due our experience with this material more and more bikers will switch to delrin in the future.


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## eric512 (Jan 27, 2006)

eliflap said:


> why only Turkish languages and not English ?
> 
> that way can permits more access than a thread here ...
> 
> however you got PM


In this case - Google Translate is your friend. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=www.afcbike.com&sl=tr&tl=en


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## eric512 (Jan 27, 2006)

I purchased a set if beautiful red pulleys a few weeks ago. LOVE THEM!!! And they sent TWO follow up emails to make sure I received the wheels and liked the product.

Very nice people to deal with.


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

> can't you count up to 11? Just look at your own deraileur...
> 
> older derailleurs had 10t...newer ones from about year 2000 up have 11t.


I guess I was just to lazy. I am realy sorry to have used your prescious time oh wise Nino. We mortals can learn things every day from you!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

what advantage / disadvantage does one get when you run 10T versus 11T? Why can't we run 9T or 12T?


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Sorry to be boring but.... any chance of making the Delrin ones in black?


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

adept1 said:


> Sorry to be boring but.... any chance of making the Delrin ones in black?


If you look at the very first picture thats exactly what it is. Doh!:madman:


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Juanmoretime said:


> If you look at the very first picture thats exactly what it is. Doh!:madman:


Sorry... I mean the 11T ones.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> what advantage / disadvantage does one get when you run 10T versus 11T? Why can't we run 9T or 12T?


From what i remember when 11t were introduced they claimed shifting precision would be better.I have never felt any difference at all though. I run lightweight 10t pulleys on all my bikes instead of the standard 11t ones. I got better shifting precision by running short caged DA derailleurs instead of those long ones that come on MTB derailleurs....

Once german BIKE magazine did an analysis on a pulley wheel with 15t which got used by our famous swiss TT worldchampion Fabian Cancellara and some triathletes.Those 15t mathematically offer 0,8 watt savings when compared to the standard Campagnolo 10t ones which have a friction bearing (that's 0,04 km/h = 0,025 mph faster-wow).......you to judge if that's worth it


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

adept1 said:


> Sorry... I mean the 11T ones.


Will get them done in the very close future.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> Extralite and KCNC copies? Now that deserves an applause for creativity! :thumbsup:


+ 1


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

I have now ridden 1400kms on the 10T AFC pulleys ,sorry I should say on the Extralite copies..is this ok for the Italian guys? 
and it seems that I have purchased the best pulleys I have ever had.
Well done AFC.
Will purchase the white ones for my trail bike.
Have not needed to spent 49 Euros plus 20 Euros for shipping like for the original version.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

Cheers! said:


> what advantage / disadvantage does one get when you run 10T versus 11T? Why can't we run 9T or 12T?


A good reply to your question there by Nino. 11T pulleys came up with longer cages to keep the radius the chain runs over the pulleys similar to that of 10T pulleys in shorter cages.
Once more said is that you can run smaller/lighter pulleys with all RD manufacturers and models without and performance loss in your drivetrain.


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## Rick205 (Jul 6, 2006)

Nice looking products - To those criticising due to similarity - there are only so many ways you can design a jockey wheel so they will always look similar.

One word of warning, check your 11t design - KCNC have patented some aspect of their bearing cap and yours looks very similar so it would be worth checking - you dont want to end up in legal trouble (see KCNC's website)

Keep it up - without competition things would be very boring.
Rick


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

Rick205 said:


> Nice looking products - To those criticising due to similarity - there are only so many ways you can design a jockey wheel so they will always look similar.
> 
> One word of warning, check your 11t design - KCNC have patented some aspect of their bearing cap and yours looks very similar so it would be worth checking - you dont want to end up in legal trouble (see KCNC's website)
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Rick.

Thanks also for the warning.We are informed about this and allthough dustcap looks similar our caps are due to other inner dia and different bearings a totaly own design.

Own design like below bolt on skewers (23.8 grams pair ) with a dropout stop on the right side so you do not need to grip the bolt to prevent it from turning while tightening the skewer.
Just push it against dropout and tighten them from the left side
with 5Nm.
Blue bolt came out somewhat shiny but drop out stop design visible on other coloured pairs.


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## siippou (May 7, 2009)

Thanks AFC, got mine today. Excellent quality and can´t wait to install these to my new rd once it arrives alonside with SP-81 cable


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## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

So... gallery of the happy customers, so far... why not, these are mine, have to say they look better on the pictures then in reality, but it doesn't change AFC good job, even better weight and brilliant price :thumbsup:


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

Thank you to you all. 
I have to mention that there is a slight transperancy of the 10T Delrins which does not appear on any photo.
This is due to the very thin design and further it looks different when part gets light from all sides (daylight) whereas it gets flashlight of the camera only fm top.
This is an phenemenon which appears only with the 10T delrin white. 10T Black & all others appear as they are on photos.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

We have added our dual colour choice to the 11T 13.5 grams delrin jockey wheels.
Available in below and other non pictured colour combinations.



And here are the white wheels with different coloured dustcaps.



All national colours covered?  Except tricolores.


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## ionutph (May 10, 2009)

I have Sram X0 2007 with *long cage* (and 22x32x44 with 11-32). What version will be better 10T or 11T ? I like 10T more but I don't want to ruin shifter performance.

How are holding up against dust, mud, can be serviceable ?

I hate the Sram pulleys because the dust, mud, sand gets in I have to clean and relube them more often.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

ionutph said:


> I have Sram X0 2007 with *long cage* (and 22x32x44 with 11-32). What version will be better 10T or 11T ? I like 10T more but I don't want to ruin shifter performance.
> 
> How are holding up against dust, mud, can be serviceable ?
> 
> I hate the Sram pulleys because the dust, mud, sand gets in I have to clean and relube them more often.


Thank you for asking.
We have previously stated that we will stop producing alloy pulleys and only will manufacture delrin wheels in future.
For a lot of reasons.
Durability: Delrin is as durable as alloy.
Corrosion: All alloy will corrode but delrin as non metal does not.
Colour: Anodized alloy colours will last only a few hundred kms.
After this you will have natural alloy coloured teeth surface and the anodized colour more to the center of the wheel.
Our jockey wheels colours will last on the entire wheel as long as wheels life is.
More silent: Delrin will bring silence into your drivetrain.
You will enjoy smooth and silent rides .
Cleaning: You can clean them with simple dish soap after uninstalling of the dustcaps and bearing(s) with a brush without beeing afraid that anodized colour will come more and more off the wheel.
Weight:Same sized Delrin wheels are lighter.

Our pulleys have sealed bearings like other products. The dustcaps are well designed to keep mud and dust away. But you will have to clean them too .

We do ride 10T pulleys now for years within longer caged Sram and Shimano RD's. Without ANY performance losses or RD failures.

On the other hand I would recommend the single bearing 11T version if you ride consistantly under very muddy conditions.

I hope this answers your question.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

nice stuff


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

Just ordered up my pair in 11t. Did a blue wheel with a white dustcover and a white wheel with a blue dust cover to match my stumpy  

Thanks AFCBike. I'm seriously looking into a pair of those skewers too. Maybe shoot me a PM with USD pricing if you can.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

adept1 said:


> Sorry to be boring but.... any chance of making the Delrin ones in black?


Got the 11T Delrin pulleys also in black now. Will post pics tomorrow .
www.afcbike.com


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

nino said:


> From what i remember when 11t were introduced they claimed shifting precision would be better.I have never felt any difference at all though. I run lightweight 10t pulleys on all my bikes instead of the standard 11t ones. I got better shifting precision by running short caged DA derailleurs instead of those long ones that come on MTB derailleurs....
> 
> Once german BIKE magazine did an analysis on a pulley wheel with 15t which got used by our famous swiss TT worldchampion Fabian Cancellara and some triathletes.Those 15t mathematically offer 0,8 watt savings when compared to the standard Campagnolo 10t ones which have a friction bearing (that's 0,04 km/h = 0,025 mph faster-wow).......you to judge if that's worth it


You miss one important point...when a chain intersects a tooth the chain is lifted out of a true circle...this consumes energy...the amount the chain is lifted out of a true circle decreases with an increasing number of teeth....

So a 10 tooth jockey wheel will have more of this effect than a 15 tooth jockey wheel...

Soooo, for industrial power transmission the minimum number of teeth on a sprocket is usually set at 11 if that does not produce an acceptable ratio a jack shaft is recommended.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

jeffscott said:


> You miss one important point...when a chain intersects a tooth the chain is lifted out of a true circle...this consumes energy...the amount the chain is lifted out of a true circle decreases with an increasing number of teeth....
> 
> So a 10 tooth jockey wheel will have more of this effect than a 15 tooth jockey wheel...
> 
> Soooo, for industrial power transmission the minimum number of teeth on a sprocket is usually set at 11 if that does not produce an acceptable ratio a jack shaft is recommended.


...yet for about "100" years all pulleys had 10t....


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

nino said:


> ...yet for about "100" years all pulleys had 10t....


Nino pay attention "industrial power transmission" is not bike transmission...

However the two can learn from each other...

Another industrial power transmission rule of thumb....allow chain stretch to reach 3% then change sprockets and chains...

But yet from the bike world allow chain stretch to reach 1% the change chain, sprockets will usually last for 3 chains....

BTW are there any 10 th cassettes out there, i would like a slightly higher ratio for my highest gearing.

Hmmmm


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

Have the 11T Black Delrin and their dual colour versions ready.


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## AFCBike (Jan 2, 2010)

10T and 11T pulleys are also available via eBay now.
Thanks.


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## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

Took about a week and half for them to reach CA from Turkey but they got here! I don't know why AFCBike got banned from the forum but I assume it was for marketing or something. Anyway I am very happy with the weight/quality of my Jockey wheels and it's only a matter of time until I get their skewers.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Got mine few days ago. 10T ones are made much nicer than 11T, which in person look a little cheap. 11T seem to roll better though. They also have sealed bearings so maybe they'll be better. Both seem to be a little louder that the stock ones, but maybe it's just a impression.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

Cezex,I have bought both sets,too. The question to ask there propably is ,do you want anodized alloy pulleys which look like a piece of candy when you buy them and then really loosing all the anodized color on the teeth very quickly or you want to go for a bit dull delrin color where the color remains throughout the entire wheel life.
Another question is,why have AFC been banned here?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> that's 0,04 km/h = 0,025 mph faster-wow


Or about 80m over 2 hour race?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

blue cross said:


> Another question is,why have AFC been banned here?


Was the least the mods could do...



Curmy said:


> Or about 80m over 2 hour race?


just a mater of choosing the perspective you like most.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> Or about 80m over 2 hour race?


That's if you go 45 km/h steady...i don't think we reach those kind of speeds
Cut your hair or remove the visor of your helmet and the aerodynamics will have more effect


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> That's if you go 45 km/h steady...i don't think we reach those kind of speeds
> Cut your hair or remove the visor of your helmet and the aerodynamics will have more effect


Sure, but this is the place where people spend time to learn how to drop 10g from their handlebar. 

1 Watt is probably more noticable. (not sure I believe that a pulley can save even remotely as much)


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

blue_coross: I'm not complaining, just saying that in person they look like plastic... nothing odd though. Derlin are way better than alu, no questions about that. They're already mounted on my derailleur. I'll test them as soon as snow melts down and rain washes the salt and postassium out from the roads.

sergio_pt: Say what ? They didn't bother anyone... maybe just the moderator. Well, they should tell what was the reason though.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

Cezex, I am running them on my trainer in a closed room where the noise reduction is far more noticeable. Very smooth ride.
Yes Delrin looks like cheap plastic. I made a search and found out that Duponts Delrin is a more expensive one within their composite range.

Banning AFC: That's life. Either you are FULL SPEED AHEAD and sponsoring some forums or you are HALF SPEED BEHIND as a small manufacturer. I may be biased as a satisfied customer but I have always appreciated their polite habbit on the forum ignoring ironic spatchcocks.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

here mine on board, not yet tried.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

I've noticed one problem. When you screw them too tight, they'll stop spinning. There's no problem with stock ones. I've noticed, that there's a small gap between bearings, maybe it's causes this problem.

Hey AFC, if you're reading this, register as normal user and stop posting products as adverts, then maybe mods will not ban you. We want you back.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

Cezex said:


> I've noticed one problem. When you screw them too tight, they'll stop spinning. There's no problem with stock ones. I've noticed, that there's a small gap between bearings, maybe it's causes this problem.
> 
> Hey AFC, if you're reading this, register as normal user and stop posting products as adverts, then maybe mods will not ban you. We want you back.


Cezex ,the difference to the stock pulleys is the saved weight with the very thin designed alloy dustcaps when talking about the AFC 10T delrin pulleys.
I have asked Selcuk, AFC about this "problem" via their website.

My 2p.
I have checked the "small gap" between bearings.I think that this has been done to prevent to touch bearings each other on the inside which would lead to more friction.
So I definetely believe that this is not the cause but the thin caps which may touch the wheels if overtightened.

I had not such an issue with the 10T but the 11T. AFC has delrin dustcaps there. And only one bearing so no gap.When I asked AFC, they told me just to go ahead and make some 50 or 60kms with them and if not solved they would make some exchange.
That is what I did and noticed that they spun freely after that.
And this again makes me believe that when dustcaps are pressed against delrin wheels because you overtighten your wheel bolt they need a while to "ride in".
But I must say that I had the same issue with KCNC pulleys before except that the touching circle of the dustcaps against alloy wheels were visible.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Did some testing yesterday and got one advice to ones who use these jockey wheels - do not replace the upper wheel cause it'll make your shifting much worse. Upper pulley should move slightly to left and right and AFC jockey wheels cannot do that so the chain can't lay down on a chainring properly.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Cezex said:


> Did some testing yesterday and got one advice to ones who use these jockey wheels - do not replace the upper wheel cause it'll make your shifting much worse. Upper pulley should move slightly to left and right and AFC jockey wheels cannot do that so the chain can't lay down on a chainring properly.


not surprising. Better get the ORIGINAL KCNC or Extralite pulleys.  
And I could never trust the aluminium skewers! Rider weight limit of 80kg? Where did they get that number from? Where are the test methods and results?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> Did some testing yesterday and got one advice to ones who use these jockey wheels - do not replace the upper wheel cause it'll make your shifting much worse. Upper pulley should move slightly to left and right and AFC jockey wheels cannot do that so the chain can't lay down on a chainring properly.


Uhh-i find the complete opposite is true:
fixed pulleys like these or Extralite offer superior shifting precision!!

You only need some side-to-side movement if you have a bad chainline which could make for a slightly "cramped" derailleur if you let's say in the big chainring and lowest gear on the cassette.... But i personally have found that fix pulleys offer superior shifting. I use them since about 6 years on all my bikes, Road or MTB or commuter.


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

But are they strong enough for some serious mtb riding? I mean, Delrin is not as strong as alloy is I think? And there are very big holes in them!!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Ninko said:


> But are they strong enough for some serious mtb riding? I mean, Delrin is not as strong as alloy is I think? And there are very big holes in them!!


I use the Extralites for many,many years without ANY signs of wear.Still smooth and as mentioned no wear at all. best pulleys by far.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

nino said:


> Uhh-i find the complete opposite is true:
> fixed pulleys like these or Extralite offer superior shifting precision!!


It's hard for me to believe in it. I've tested it on Lightning with double chainring and xtr derailleur and rapid fires. The difference in shifting precision and speed was huge! I couldn't get proper shifting with AFC on all cassettes chainrings, whatever I did couldn't help it. After half an hour of trials I've put original wheel and got it set up in two minutes. Now it works perfectly.


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## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

sergio_pt said:


> not surprising. Better get the ORIGINAL KCNC or Extralite pulleys.
> And I could never trust the aluminium skewers! Rider weight limit of 80kg? Where did they get that number from? Where are the test methods and results?


I rode kcnc ceramic, nothing extra over the standard wheels apart the look and they are very noisy.

If you say extralite, think of AFC but for the fraction of extralite's price.

Your second sentence: with all my respect but with this kind of thinking we would still live in the caves....


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

1415chris said:


> Your second sentence: with all my respect but with this kind of thinking we would still live in the caves....


Huh? You mean proper testing and engineering gets in the way of progress?


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Cezex said:


> It's hard for me to believe in it. I've tested it on Lightning with double chainring and xtr derailleur and rapid fires. The difference in shifting precision and speed was huge! I couldn't get proper shifting with AFC on all cassettes chainrings, whatever I did couldn't help it. After half an hour of trials I've put original wheel and got it set up in two minutes. Now it works perfectly.


Well I not buying that quite that fast....

I run Shimano XTR shifters and RD...

I just went from XTR jockey wheels (top one with the lateral play)...to some Enduro seal jockey wheels (top one no lateral play)....

Went on fine and tuned-up fine...It also works fine...

Gut feel tells me your set up is somehow a little out of alignment

Maybe a slightly bent RD hanger (something anyway)....A top pulley with lateral play would allow for that small mis alignment.

Cause we know mine worked with no lateral play and yours didn't.....


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

jeffscott said:


> Gut feel tells me your set up is somehow a little out of alignment


Could depend on the derailleur setup - Shadow ones often sit quite further from the cassette - they can get away with it as the do not flail around as much.. 
I usually try to set it as close as possible, and I did not have good luck with replacement jockey wheels with no play.
I could imagine if you run a road derailleur, then flex in the derailleur may compensate for lack of play in the top wheel.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

jeffscott said:


> Gut feel tells me your set up is somehow a little out of alignment
> 
> Maybe a slightly bent RD hanger (something anyway)....A top pulley with lateral play would allow for that small mis alignment.
> 
> Cause we know mine worked with no lateral play and yours didn't.....


I didn't tell that it didn't work, I just told that it shifts much worse. It works, but not as nicely as I would like it to work. Maybe I'm picky about this or maybe I just need/like perfect shifting on high load.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cezex said:


> I didn't tell that it didn't work, I just told that it shifts much worse. It works, but not as nicely as I would like it to work. Maybe I'm picky about this or maybe I just need/like perfect shifting on high load.


Let me guess - your derailleur is a shadow XTR, right?
Those just don't shift well.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> Let me guess - your derailleur is a shadow XTR, right?
> Those just don't shift well.


They shift perfectly fine if you setup them correctly. Much better then previous design and much better then road deraillers. Not as noticable on weenie hardtails, but huge difference on long travel trail bikes.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Yes, it's shadow and no, your not right. It's the best rear derailleur from Shimano ever! In comparison to other models (including Sram, though I didn't try X.0) it's much more superior, it's so amazing that you won't belevie it until you try it. If you had problems with them, they obviously were misaligned (or had upper pulley without any spacing).


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> They shift perfectly fine if you setup them correctly. Much better then previous design and much better then road deraillers. Not as noticable on weenie hardtails, but huge difference on long travel trail bikes.


Hmm- why do i see DA derailleurs on so many DH bikes then...?
Sorry-i had the shadow and didn't tune it as i wasn't impressed at all....I sold it after just a couple hours use.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> Hmm- why do i see DA derailleurs on so many DH bikes then...?
> Sorry-i had the shadow and didn't tune it as i wasn't impressed at all....I sold it after just a couple hours use.


You do not even have a long travel bike (that requires a derailleur).  Adjusted properly it works great - stiffer spring and low profile are quite noticeable.

You saw a lot of DA derailleurs on DH bikes as many people used road cassettes, and standards derailleurs worked not so well. Latest Saint 810-series derailleur has a switchable "mode" for narrow and wide cassettes for that very reason.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

sergio_pt said:


> Was the least the mods could do...
> 
> just a mater of choosing the perspective you like most.


can't take this guy serious. ask him what time it is. You will get " it's raining" as an answer.Understandable though opposing almost every part which is not made in Italy.

cezex: don't agree with your upper jockey wheel problem. I am totaly with Nino regarding Shadow RD's. I have returned to "normal" RD's as well.
Question- As I have used KCNC pulleys in the past beside others so you are saying that KCNC can do lateral movement? No way.Same build as AFC pulleys.
This must be a problem in your RD or drivetrain.
Only some clever carbon pulley makers claim that their pulleys have a "built in" movement because they are very thin,very loud and rattling in your RD.

I have changed from carbon pulleys to delrin -AFC for my road bike and this was the best decision I could make. Smooth& precise shifting.

I also do not understand why people are paying bunch of money for ceramic bearing pulleys and face the higher friction alloy pulleys have over their contact with the chain. 
You do not have to believe me but do a material survey on google or engineering sites which do tell us the extra portion of LESS FRICTION Delrin has. I can read there that machine parts and other high friction area working parts which CAN NOT BE LUBED every day are made of Delrin. Look also at Dupont's site who are makers of Delrin.

Sergio_pt and his skewers question: He may oppose Tune skewers ,too. As they are lighter than AFC . Or claiming that Tune does better tests than AFC who are contractors for the Ministry of Defense in their country and must test their materials properly.
Or does Tune say how they test their WW stuff?
I have no experience with AFC skewers but I trust them that testing is taken seriously otherwise they would have sold me their alloy pedal spindles but was told that the tests have been not completed and that they are not available yet.

And beside this...never heard of Extralite or KCNC parts which can break? But well, its EXTRALITE and KCNC then. I do remember what kind of harsh criticism KCNC faced consistantly a few years ago in WW forums when they were a smaller scaled company.

Fully satisfied with their pulleys 10T and 11T ,various bolts and their customer service yet.
However I do understand that new competitors are not welcomed by every single forum member.


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## NonHands (Jul 17, 2010)

Seems like I'm a little late to this party.

Sorry to possibly necropost but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I got the 11t delrin pulleys about 2 months ago. Set them up in an ol' XTR m951 with custom carbon fiber side plates.

At first I did notice that when you torqued the bolts down they did spin less freely. It looks like the caps would press up against the pulley bodies. Didn't have a chance to break them in though. I could see that probably a hundred kms on them would free them up. Mentioned this to AFC and they already had a new set of caps just freshly made that would solve the problem. The sent them to me for no charge except shipping. Seemed to do the trick. Freely spinning even when tightened to more than the specd torque. It was a pleasure speaking to them by the way. Seemed genuinely concerned about fixing the problem.

As for shifting vs the original pulleys I would have to say that there seems to be no difference. I shift, the chain goes where I told it to. I tried it while on flat road, climbing, and on teeth jarring cobblestone roads and still shifts like a champ.

Although I haven't used them long enough to comment of durability, they seem to be doing well so far. I play paintball and in the markers (paintball guns) they sometimes make the bolts out of derlin for it's lightness, self lubrication, and durability. So I don't have any reservations about using it for less stressed applications like pulleys. In any case they felt pretty solid with no discernible flex.

One last thing. They're really quiet too. No clacking or ticking noises that I got with alloy pulleys in the past.

So there you go. I know I probably just sounded like a mouthpiece for AFC bike (lol) but when I like a product and the company that made them I like to share my opinion. I also do that when I really hate a product and the company that made them so not all is rosy.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Just noticed these new AFC pulley's on their ebay.








Lightest pulleys in the world?

EDIT: ha, ignore the pointer. eBay wouldn't let me save the image, had to do a screenshot.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Regarding the fixed vs floating pulley debate... the myth of floaters got started because shimano said they were better. In reality shimano derailleur pivot tolerances used to suck compared to where they are today, so the floating pulley made up for play in the pivots. Suntour derailleurs didn't have tolerance issues (neither did campy) and used fixed pivots and they shifted precisely every time. Sachs and Sram derailleurs also use fixed pulleys.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

score! :thumbsup: i like the design too, but maybe there should be a more machismo version with sculls & daggers - just incase anyone comments that the pulleys look abit like a pretty flower 

...beats my cnc 3k carbon pulleys by about 1.6g - had a 7.5g claimed weight - but 9g actual with the alloy spacers needed


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> Regarding the fixed vs floating pulley debate... the myth of floaters got started because shimano said they were better. In reality shimano derailleur pivot tolerances used to suck compared to where they are today, so the floating pulley made up for play in the pivots. Suntour derailleurs didn't have tolerance issues (neither did campy) and used fixed pivots and they shifted precisely every time. Sachs and Sram derailleurs also use fixed pulleys.


Floating pulley seems to have been covered by this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=fq4cAAAAEBAJ, and probably also covered by an older http://www.google.com/patents?id=7O8zAAAAEBAJ - claim 3.

In any case, not sure if it has anything to do with patents, but current Shimano deraillers shift better then anything else. The rest of your assertions is an unfounded conjecture.

Interesting patent on thin pulleys with holes in it:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=M3AnAAAAEBAJ


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## jacob-evers (Mar 10, 2009)

COLINx86 said:


> Just noticed these new AFC pulley's on their ebay.
> 
> Lightest pulleys in the world?
> 
> EDIT: ha, ignore the pointer. eBay wouldn't let me save the image, had to do a screenshot.


I can't find them on ebay, do you have a link?


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm not sure if your allowed to post ebay links on here.
Go to google and search "afcbike ebay" and click the 1st or 3rd link.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> Floating pulley seems to have been covered by this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=fq4cAAAAEBAJ, and probably also covered by an older http://www.google.com/patents?id=7O8zAAAAEBAJ - claim 3.
> 
> In any case, not sure if it has anything to do with patents, but current Shimano deraillers shift better then anything else. The rest of your assertions is an unfounded conjecture.
> 
> ...


Unfounded eh? So decades of experience with hundreds of derailleurs from just about every brand that has made them apparently doesn't count for anything anymore I guess. That the date for shimano's first floating pulley patent coincides with when they brought out index shifting is purely a coincidence right?

Without clicking the link I knew the 3rd patent was that funny one that Chris Carmicheal somehow got the USPTO to grant. Apparently drilling holes in an pulley was some magical invention that deserved patent protection. Something that was being done by thousands of professional mechanics and racers in the 1970s drillium period of weight weenies. Always good to see the patent office granting things for common knowledge.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> Unfounded eh? So decades of experience with hundreds of derailleurs from just about every brand that has made them apparently doesn't count for anything anymore I guess.


Yes, unfounded, as it contradicts the basic facts of the matter, while being obviously judgemental and subjective. Shimano deraillers shift great, and a technical feature that your had been referred to as "myth" is protected from use by competitors. Those are the facts. And you are not alone in having experience with a whole lot of different designs. And making dismissive claims about a technical feature that the best company in components business is sucessfully using for decades is laughable.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Did you read what I wrote or just skim over it and the start writing a response while digging thru patents to quote to make your argument seem smarter sounding? Shimano patents practically every technical feature, but that doesn't mean its a good idea or even actually neccessary.

Here, I'll repeat it in BOLD letters for you.

*In reality shimano derailleur pivot tolerances used to suck compared to where they are today*

Now what part of "used to" did you not grasp? Have you held any shimano derailleurs from the early 80s? I mean actually held in your hand and then examined them to find the play in the pivots and derailleur body? I have. Including NOS ones. There's noticeable play in the bushing/link pin tolerances compared to a current shimano derailleur.

The fact is you do not need a floating pulley to have good shifting performance. All the float does is allow for minor missalignment of the derailleur cage/body from poor tolerances/worn bushings with the cog as the chain comes off the top pulley and onto the cassette/freewheel.


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

As far as I know the XTR 980 RD does not have a floating pulleye anymore, but therefore a bigger ratio, near to Sram's 1:1.
And now: ones more please


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

They could have done away with the things years ago but once shimano repeats a lie often enough, they forget that it was a lie to begin with. Its like their claims for max rated cog sizes of derailleurs. DA derailleurs not working with anything more than 28T cogs and this forum is full of people using them with 32T and even 34T cogs. The "hanger" on mountain bikes actually aren't that much longer than the ones on road bikes. Not anymore at least. Maybe a decade ago that was still the case but today... well my 2007 Salsa Campeon downstairs has exactly the same distance from axle center to derailleur hanger bolt center as my 2009 Salsa Mamasita.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> The fact is you do not need a floating pulley to have good shifting performance. All the float does is allow for minor missalignment of the derailleur cage/body from poor tolerances/worn bushings with the cog as the chain comes off the top pulley and onto the cassette/freewheel.


You contradict yourself. You claim there is no benefit, and then go on to describe the said benefit.



DeeEight said:


> the myth of floaters got started because shimano said they were better


This, sir, is a hogwash. There were actually, in fact better. But of course you know better then generations of Shimano engineers. You rode your thumb shifters yesterday. 

Do you even read what you wrote before retorting?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

No, that's explaining what they did... they compensated for the lack of close tolerances in the construction of the shimano derailleurs of the time. That doesn't make them better. That makes them a bandaid solution to a problem that would have been better solved by trying to match the precision assembly tolerances of Campagnolo and Suntour. Remember, it took shimano MANY MANY years to become the dominant component maker. Until the early 90s, they lagged behind Suntour in the mtb market for both quality and performance and they lagged behind Campagnolo in the road market until about the same time. Campy and Suntour index derailleurs of the same period worked just fine without a floating top pulley. In fact, they worked better than shimano derailleur WITH the floating pulley. 

Now... today... hell nearly the past two decades... after shimano finally matched the others in construction quality and tolerances... they haven't done any good or been needed. Numerous aftermarket pulley kits for shimano derailleurs with fixed upper pulleys proved that little point.


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## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

Sweet things 




Now I can understand the 6g, they are very narrow.
Will see how they perform.


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Any long term review on these pulleys? I am curious how well they hold up.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

I've been using it for two years and they still work as new.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Cezex said:


> I've been using it for two years and they still work as new.


You shouldn't ride a lot. 
My set went kaput in a pair of months. The bearings just slides out of place damaging everithing.
Result? Go back to KNCN aluminium pulleys and zero problems!


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Yeap, it's on my racing bike so tough conditions but not too much mileage.


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