# Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

As reported by Beig in the original Chinese Carbon 29er thread, Hong Fu have a 29er Carbon Duallie posted on their site.

Jenny has been contacted asking for geo details and a few other bits of info.

Thought this was worthy of a thread of its own rather than caught up in the original one.

Hong Fu


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

Hong Fu you, pal!


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## Stryder75 (Feb 2, 2010)

Wow, that looks a lot like the new Scott spark 29er frame. I mean a lot. If it is under 1K, may be worth a purchase and build up.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

juan_speeder said:


> Hong Fu you, pal!





Stryder75 said:


> Wow, that looks a lot like the new Scott spark 29er frame. I mean a lot. If it is under 1K, may be worth a purchase and build up.


sensational. Intelligent, informative first reply and it only took to the second reply to get a "that looks alot like a ...." comment :thumbsup:


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

and the geometry is...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

mtnbiker72 said:


> and the geometry is...


Still waiting for a reply from Jenny. I will post up as soon as I get it as I am sure the others that have already asked for it will as well.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

The other photo on the site looks weird. How do those CS pivots work?


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

Response will probably come after 9pm EST since that's when they will be beginning their work day.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

Stryder75 said:


> Wow, that looks a lot like the new Scott spark 29er frame. I mean a lot. If it is under 1K, may be worth a purchase and build up.


i agree, i mean most 29 fuax bar frames look similar but those are the same drop outs.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Assuming these don't come with a shock, I'm curious how they're going to compare cost wise with the name brand frames. I feel like the markup on a retail shock is considerably more than what it adds to the price of a frame when sold as a set.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Well said the rear shock prices retail is just stupid high compared to a frameset. That said with the HT running about $400 if the FS can come in under $700 or so it would be worth it. But if your looking at over $1k with a rear shock their are other options like a spearfish.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Seat stays at the pivot look suspect IMHO, would like to see a bit more material there.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Also would need to know what shock tunes work well with the frame.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

Will replacement bearings be available? Pretty important.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i asked to Jenny price.

800 usd for a single frame, 100 usd to be shipped in Italy


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

did she give you geo charts? I haven't had any response back yet


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

emu26 said:


> did she give you geo charts? I haven't had any response back yet


i was with her on skype few minutes ago, now she's offline

she told me the price

asked some technical informations too ( eye to eye distance, rear skerwer ... )

but no reply to my questions...

i am not sure to stay a lot on my Mac this morning to wait for her ...


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

165mm eye to eye

1950 g the weight in 17,5"

rear skewer 135mm not 142 , as you can see on picture ( normal mtb )


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

I have thought about getting a Chinese 26er dually in the past but haven't been able to find any reviews. I have a Chinese carbon 26er hardtail and love it, stiff and quick through single track and gets more time than my dually Santa Cruz. But hardtails are relatively simple and how the geometry affects the ride is well known (at least with 26ers). Is a dually 29er from Hongfu et.al. going to compare favorably to name brands as their hardtails do? Hope so, kudos to whoever dives in. Shame only available in 17.5 - too big for me but Looking forward to any further information or pictures/reviews.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

There website lists 15.5" / 17.5" / 19.5" / 21.5", so I'm guessing others are available or soon will be.

My issue is still cost/risk. Like you mentioned, with a hardtail you kind of know what you're getting. I'm pretty tempted to go for a carbon 29er this winter.

On a FS bike I'm with subspd in using the Spearfish as a benchmark:
$1000
5.5 lbs = 2495 grams (I assume this includes shock)
Warranty & crash replacement

VS:
$800 + $??? for shock
1950g + ~200g for shock = 2150
Likely stiffer than a Spearfish
No warranty or crash replacement

That's not compelling enough for me.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

What is the travel on these? 100mm?


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

so 800usd and you have to buy a shock???


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Not such a good deal at $800.

FS is a more complex bike purchase in general.

With that said, I'm really liking my Ltk023 HT.


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## tumble_downs (Sep 4, 2008)

*Calculating travel?*

Can anyone with a good knowledge of shock specs explain the influence of stroke on travel? It's easy to find a shock which is 165mm eye to eye, but stroke (travel?) differs from 37.5- 50mm. Presumably a longer stroke means longer travel, but it must depend on frame geometry. Am I on the right track?


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## vierzwanzig (Feb 9, 2011)

Jenny finally got back to me. This frame almost strikes me as being rushed. They only have 17.5 avalible right now, and none of my questions that were specific to this frame were answered. She then asks me how many I would be interested in.

hmm...still (one of the few) very happy with my hong fu hard tail frame.


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## rularn (Apr 27, 2011)

Any information when the other size frames will be avail?


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

This looks sweet... Might tide me over until the Scalpel arrives.


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## vierzwanzig (Feb 9, 2011)

Price for a qty. Of 10 is 650 per plus 120 shipping for each. Thought you all should know that there is a bulk discount. Unless... anyone else get a quote yet? I remember the shipping on my hardtail being cheaper. Anyone get a differentko quote for shipping?


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## Menzo (Nov 24, 2007)

> Not such a good deal at $800.


A Superfly 100 chainstay is $700... $800 is a joke... and a threat to your life...


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

Haha, that's hilarious. Trek would never overcharge on spare parts would they!!!!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

rularn said:


> Any information when the other size frames will be avail?


"next month" was Jenny's response, and that was one of the few questions she answered


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## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

vierzwanzig said:


> They only have 17.5 avalible right now, and none of my questions that were specific to this frame were answered. She then asks me how many I would be interested in.


There is no frame available yet, no geometry and no other specs. At present this is purely an exercise in gauging interest to see if it is worthwhile to design and manufacture.


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## topmounter (Jul 30, 2003)

Menzo said:


> A Superfly 100 chainstay is $700... $800 is a joke... and a threat to your life...


To be fair, I haven't heard of anyone getting injured when their frame cracks, so calling the Superfly a "threat to your life" might be a bit over the top.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

topmounter said:


> To be fair, I haven't heard of anyone getting injured when their frame cracks, so calling the Superfly a "threat to your life" might be a bit over the top.


I think the point that Menzo is making is that with Trek charging $700 for a chain stay, $800 is cheap for a complete frame and probably so cheap that the quality will be questionable and possibly life threatening should you have a catastrophic failure of the $800 frame.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

someone asked if UD finish is available soon ?


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## wedge (Jun 24, 2006)

tumble_downs said:


> Can anyone with a good knowledge of shock specs explain the influence of stroke on travel? It's easy to find a shock which is 165mm eye to eye, but stroke (travel?) differs from 37.5- 50mm. Presumably a longer stroke means longer travel, but it must depend on frame geometry. Am I on the right track?


I'm not aware of any 165mm shock with a stroke different from 37.5.Care to enlighten me?


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## thesimo (Sep 15, 2011)

It certainly LOOKS very good!


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

29er full suspension carbon frame products, buy 29er full suspension carbon frame products from alibaba.com

Looks like the head tube angle is 71 wonder what this frame would be like with a 120mm fork? Anyone able to tell from the diagram above what the stand over is on this? I do find it interesting now that they offer a 2year warranty on the frame.

Couple more pics








[/URL]


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

bump...


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Well, the frame is "designed" with a 120mm vork in mind. It seems very "inspired" by the Specialized Epic construction.

But do not forget:

You need a Shock with the correct Compression- and Reboundtune.
The pivotbearings are quite unknown.
There is no through-axle in the rear triangle, which will probably lead to a flexy rear-end.


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## jrabenaldt (Feb 24, 2005)

I thought the same thing about the Epic inspiration when I saw the drawing since I ride one.


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

If the 29er frame I'm getting in a week or so is up to par I'll order one of these and build it up too.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

I'm watching this close too I think this would be a fun build. BUT it's a hard sell compared to what a spearfish built costs that weighs the same.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Looking for some shock advice*

I have a compadre looking at this frame as a winter project/experiment. We're looking at using an rt3. Does anyone have an idea about which tune would be optimal? Is it based on rider weight, or does frame leverage play a role? My prior would be to go with a mid-tune.

TIA


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

It's selected based on the leverage ratio of the frame. You'll have figure out the leverage ratio and then talk to SRAM about which one would work best. Personally, I'd ask Push if they can sort out a correct custom tune off of the drawing (I would imagine "yes"). The cost of a custom RT3 through Push is pretty reasonable. I'm also of the opinion that the shock completely makes or breaks the performance of a faux bar frame.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Looks like Goto has a Horst link available:
carbon bike manufacture,carbon frames,carbon rims,carbon forks,carbon bike parts,carbon wheelsets


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Put this together because I was bored  I had to scale some of the pivot dimensions off of the pdf, so this may not be entirely accurate. It appears to have 110mm of travel for a 1.5" shock stroke. I'm not familiar enough with MTB shocks to know which tune would best suit this, but the graph should be enough for someone with knowledge to make a recommendation.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*This may help*

This chart has been posted elsewhere










I read the data off the plot and put together the leverage ratio v wheel travel plot.

It seems as if this is a falling rate shock. I'm not sure how to determine the leverage ratio to use for selecting the tune, but a somewhat educated guess is that it would be the y-intercept of the plot. In this case 2.5. If that's correct then we're looking at a rt3 mid-tune.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for posting that. I'm guessing you'd want to pick a tune based on the average leverage ratio more so than the zero intercept of the line. This frame will have a leverage ratio of 3 at 35% stroke, which is where your suspension will be spending most of its time. I would think it to be firmly in the "C" category based on that line of thinking.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Thanks car-nut I needed that info*

I am far from a suspension expert. I'm just trying to spec the build for my buddy.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

No problem. Please don't take what I posted as gospel. I know next to nothing about MTB suspension as well. I just happen to have access to tools that allow me to quickly make pretty pictures 

The going rate on an RT3 is $280 (disregard manitoubikes.com, scammers). A Push tuned RT3 is $350. Honestly, you'd be doing your friend a real disservice if you recommend a stock can over the Push'd one. These types of suspension really need a non-linear damping curve to make pedaling efficient.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Anyone get one yet?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Is it just me?*

I have been trying to contact a couple of sellers in China about this frame. Both Hong-fu and ican sports (actually trying to buy a road bike frame as well) I am getting no response via email.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Anybody have any updates on these frames? I noticed a crack in my canzo today so I may be in the market for a new frame and this looks like a great option.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*My buddy just heard back from Jenny Liu*

She quoted him $700 frame and $95 shipping. Plus $15 for the headset. He wants some additional stuff and we're trying to get the final order together now.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*We just ordered the 036 from ICAN*

Order was placed this morning. The frame was $720. Because we combined an order for two frames and other carbon goodies the shipment may not leave China for three weeks. That will give us time to accumulate the necessary parts.

When the frame arrives I will try to weigh it and post some photos.

That is if my wife doesn't kill me for the road frame I ordered.


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## phazeshifta (Oct 1, 2011)

Did that 720 include a shock?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*No shock*

We're ordering a RT3 high tune from Universal with the 15% discount. Shipping and shock put this frame in the $1050 - $1100 range. Squarely with the spearfish and a couple hundred more than a Canzo. It's only a little lighter ( ~100 -150 grams) than a Spearfish, but it has more travel. Other than those two, and bikes direct you probably can't get a fully for that price. It's no VPP or DW link bike, but there are some high zoot bikes out there with a similar suspension design, and if I have learned anything about the Chinese, they can read a geometry chart with the best of them.

This is really an expensive experiment for my buddy. I think the frame is pretty attractive, we'll be building it with a early Reba Race at 100mm, I have no idea how the geometry will work with that fork, and I am pretty sure the fork will be the most flexy part of the build. But if the frame is decent we will probably do some upgrades. Right now he's into this build for some decent coin.

I for one am stoked to see how it will go together. He'll I have a pile of parts in the basement waiting for the right frame.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

car_nut said:


> Put this together because I was bored  I had to scale some of the pivot dimensions off of the pdf, so this may not be entirely accurate. It appears to have 110mm of travel for a 1.5" shock stroke. I'm not familiar enough with MTB shocks to know which tune would best suit this, but the graph should be enough for someone with knowledge to make a recommendation.


This graph doesn't make any sense. The wheel travel:shock travel is more/less a straight line. The shock rate is curvy. How are you defining shock rate? It's apparently not the derivative of the blue line because that should be really flat


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

What are the dimensions of the required shock and was the high tune what was suggested or just a guess based on the charts in this thread?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Feldybikes said:


> This graph doesn't make any sense. The wheel travel:shock travel is more/less a straight line. The shock rate is curvy. How are you defining shock rate? It's apparently not the derivative of the blue line because that should be really flat


w=wheel travel
s= shock travel

LR=(w[n+1] - w[n])/(s[n+1]-s[n])

Attached is the raw data. I think the scaling is what is throwing you off. The line isn't completely straight and the overall range of LR is actually pretty small.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2011)

This is the leverage ratio curve I got in Linkage. I also ended up with 110mm of travel for a 38mm shock.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Thanks for working that through*

Thankfully it still looks like a high tune works. If the frame looks good the RT3 may go in for a custom tune from PUSH.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*RE Finny*

The high tune was based on the plots in this thread. We just want to get the bike together to see if it's decent. Otherwise I think sending the bike drawing to PUSH might be a better idea.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

On 2011/10/19 I ordered and paid a frame from Hongfubikes. I tried to contact them to get news, but can not be answered: skype, hotmail, email, nothing! are now 4 days. Have you recently had contact? I'm beginning to think badly....


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

*Wow*



LoAl said:


> On 2011/10/19 I ordered and paid a frame from Hongfubikes. I tried to contact them to get news, but can not be answered: skype, hotmail, email, nothing! are now 4 days. Have you recently had contact? I'm beginning to think badly....


Almost one month with no contact, I'd be worried too. I had very quick feedback with LT on my frame. Hope it works out for you and there is a good explaination for the lack of response.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Let's hope all goes well...I can't believe it's a fraud. Other people have bought from Hongfu and have not complained...


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

I finally re-established contact, but I can't even know when they will ship the frame :nonod:


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

I haven't seen a single person say they didn't receive their frame after ordering the hardtail version. My frame took almost 2 months to arrive since I ordered a BB30 version and they didn't have any made at the time. 

Just have patience....if you've ordered and paid for a frame it will come.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*DJ? Comfort bike?*

Trying to figure out if I'll see more of these slung over the tailgate of a Chevy or strapped to the back of an RV:


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Loonytik said:


> I haven't seen a single person say they didn't receive their frame after ordering the hardtail version. My frame took almost 2 months to arrive since I ordered a BB30 version and they didn't have any made at the time.
> 
> Just have patience....if you've ordered and paid for a frame it will come.


You're right, but beginning they told me the frame would come in the middle of this month. If they had talked about two months, I would get over it (in italian put the soul in peace!) and waited...


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*We ordered on 10/17*

We ordered the 036 in matte 3K with BSA and were told three weeks for shipping. This frame is just starting production and my guess is that depending on finish and BB the wait times could be a few weeks.

I think that singleton orders are not really well tracked in the inventory system. Combine that with the incentive to get new sales as opposed to servicing existing orders, means patience is required.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

In the last email they said that the production is a frame a day: as soon as they produce a frame with my requests (size 17.5", UD matte finish, BSA), send it. As you say, a lots of patience is needed...


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Anyone receive one of these yet?

I see these have been listed on ebay over the last few days the seller happy_estore, curious if anyone dealt with that seller. They have them listed now at $1020 plus 80 shipping but one sold last week at 640 plus shipping. At $720 shipped I'd really consider buying one of these. I did email the seller to ask some questions so we'll see.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Frame in the house!*

The frame arrived yesterday shipped last Tuesday. The finish is top notch it is beautiful. Sadly it arrived without any shock mount hardware. I think I can get some somewhere, the upper and lower are 8mm with 22mm spacing. I suspect I should email janice to see if we were supposed to get hardware.

The frame weighs 2040g and none of the pivots were greased out of the box. 
Here are some photos:


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

nbwallace said:


> The frame weighs 2040g.....Here are some photos:


The layup looks good on the last pic. Build her up!


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I will post build pics as we go.*

Normally this wouldn't take too long, but the lack of shock hardware has me stymied. We could drop $62 on RWC needle bearings I guess.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Seat stays at the pivot look suspect IMHO, would like to see a bit more material there.


Did you run the FEA based of the photo?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

nbwallace said:


> The frame arrived yesterday shipped last Tuesday. The finish is top notch it is beautiful. Sadly it arrived without any shock mount hardware. I think I can get some somewhere, the upper and lower are 8mm with 22mm spacing. I suspect I should email janice to see if we were supposed to get hardware.
> 
> The frame weighs 2040g and none of the pivots were greased out of the box.
> Here are some photos:


Do you have a close-up of the front derailleur mount?


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

frame looks nice. cant wait for a build pic and ride report


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> Normally this wouldn't take too long, but the lack of shock hardware has me stymied. We could drop $62 on RWC needle bearings I guess.


The mounting hardware is supplied by SRAM and sold separately from the shock since it has to be sized to the frame. Do a search for "rockshox monarch hardware kit" and you should find what you need. Below is the link to BTI's page. Your LBS should be able to order what you need. Universal also sells these if you prefer that route. You'll need to source a high grade bolt too, as I believe these kits are just the spacers.

BTI | Forks & Rear Shocks from Rock Shox (page 10)


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## Shmandy (Mar 8, 2011)

*monarch shock*

Will a monarch shock fit this frame? Thanks!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

customfab said:


> Did you run the FEA based of the photo?


Did they?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Depends which Monarch. If it's the correctly sized Monarch, then it will fit. I'm pretty sure the shock dimensions are earlier in the thread.


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## Shmandy (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks car nut. I'll check it out.


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## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

customfab said:


> Did you run the FEA based of the photo?


Let me guess, you did.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Thanks for the links to the shock mount kit*

In the end we ordered two need bearing kits from RWC. Probably spent $25 more than we needed to. As far as the bolts go. I have been running a regular M8 in the linkage of my spider for a while with no problems. I may just run to home depot and get some 40mm m8 bolts and lock nuts. I guess I could call my local fastenal and get SS m8x50 bolts.

I think at some point I will put together a shopping list for those wishing to build up this frame.

Also there is no front derailleur mount. We'll be using an e-type. From the tubing profile I think that is the only solution. I'll know more when I get the crank on. There might be a place for a high mount clamp. it looks like bottom pull is required as well.

This frame is not exactly a good practice run for first time builders.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

nbwallace said:


> In the end we ordered two need bearing kits from RWC. Probably spent $25 more than we needed to. As far as the bolts go. I have been running a regular M8 in the linkage of my spider for a while with no problems. I may just run to home depot and get some 40mm m8 bolts and lock nuts. I guess I could call my local fastenal and get SS m8x50 bolts.
> 
> I think at some point I will put together a shopping list for those wishing to build up this frame.
> 
> ...


Awesome idea to help out with build ups. :thumbsup:


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> In the end we ordered two need bearing kits from RWC. Probably spent $25 more than we needed to. As far as the bolts go. I have been running a regular M8 in the linkage of my spider for a while with no problems. I may just run to home depot and get some 40mm m8 bolts and lock nuts. I guess I could call my local fastenal and get SS m8x50 bolts.


Needle bearings, eh? Going all fancy like!

I suppose it doesn't matter for a XC bike what kind of bolt you use. I just have a general disdain for Home Depot grade bolts as they're soft as clay. It doesn't need to be stainless, just something that's harder than butter.

I think I (and others) assumed the gold metal piece above the BB was a hard mount for an E-type derailleur. It looks like it has some threaded bosses on it, but it's' hard to say. I think that's the area they were requesting better photos of.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Also interested in seeing a shopping list.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

floydlippencott said:


> Let me guess, you did.


Nope, don't know how either. It just seamed odd to me that a member that usually posts level headed advice made an assumption about the structural integrity based off a picture.


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## gridtalker (Dec 7, 2006)

Stryder75 said:


> Wow, that looks a lot like the new Scott spark 29er frame. I mean a lot. If it is under 1K, may be worth a purchase and build up.


I agree it does


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

customfab said:


> Nope, don't know how either. It just seamed odd to me that a member that usually posts level headed advice made an assumption about the structural integrity based off a picture.


I'm going to take that as a compliment, in a friendly beat down kinda way.  You are absolutely correct, it was a huge assumption.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> I'm going to take that as a compliment, in a friendly beat down kinda way.  You are absolutely correct, it was a huge assumption.


correctly taken. That comment was about is well placed as when you suggested somebody read threads about saddle preferences.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

nbwallace said:


> ......
> Also there is no front derailleur mount. We'll be using an e-type. From the tubing profile I think that is the only solution. I'll know more when I get the crank on. There might be a place for a high mount clamp. it looks like bottom pull is required as well.
> 
> This frame is not exactly a good practice run for first time builders.


First impression: AWESOME! :thumbsup:
I can't wait arriving to me..

About front derailleur I think it fits a mech direct mount bottom pull. Pay attention to the gap between the centres of the two mounting holes.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

LoAl said:


> First impression: AWESOME! :thumbsup:
> I can't wait arriving to me..
> 
> About front derailleur I think it fits a mech direct mount bottom pull. Pay attention to the gap between the centres of the two mounting holes.


I would also figure it can be mounted like this, thats why i asked for a close-up:


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Yeah that looks like the front derailleur mount*

We have an e-type for the build it will be nice to just bolt it on. My question is how long will they keep making e-type derailleurs.

We're gonna start building tomorrow night. I'll try to document as much as I can. I think that we might be able to get pretty far without another trip to the bike shop. But my guess is that the lower shock mount is going to need a shock bolt kit from another frame. I will try to post a photo of what I'm talking about, but let's put it this way there's no room for a lock nut to hold the M8 bolt, we're gonna need some special kind of M8 nut on the end of a 50-60mm M8 bolt.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Building the AC-036 Chinese carbon 29er fully*

The frame arrived without shock as expected we also needed shock hardware and 
bolts as well, you'll also need an e-type front derailleur (more on that later)

Shopping list:

Shock - Rockshox RT3 high tune 6.5"

Mounting hardware - Rockshox sells a 22.2mm by 8mm bolt setup. You'll need two
Or you can go to RWC and get needle bearing kits for 22.2mm spacing

Shock bolts m8x40mm with a lock nut and and m8x50mm (some kind of specialty nut) I'm MacGivering
somthing up out of brass

E-type front derailleur we used XT

If you want to use a non-tapered shock you'll need a baseplate from cane creek

You'll need to take apart all the pivots and grease them. There are bearings in the lower
and upper main pivots. Everything else has bolts that act as bushings. I fear for
the longevity of the pivots. When it came out of the box you could not cycle the suspension with
your hands.

The bike went together without too much hassle the internal cables allow the cable outers to
route through the frame. Everything routes under the bottom bracket including the rear brake line.
See the photos.

The rally killer is the front der. There is no access to the cable bolt in the
inner ring position. So you need to do some serious trial and error to get cable
tension right. The largest issue was the alignment. Without some shims the 
front derailleur sits with the rear toed out. The solution is to put two washers
under the derauilleur mounting plate (see photo below) once that was addressed the
front shifted like butter.

The assembled bike:

1) it's light. Built up with X9/XT an old Reba Race an XTR-M960 crank and Stan's
Arches on 3.30 hubs it came in at 26.4 LBS that includes a rather heavy carbon
wrapped seatpost from ICAN. For reference that's a bit lighter
than my Spider 29 with a lefty and X0.

2) The suspension feels quite nice with the RT-3 at 30% sag. It wa a nice balaced ride with the
Reba. I'm waiting for Eric to ride and give me the full report. He was overjoyed
with how the bike came out.

I'll conclude by saying the finish of the bike is really nice. Now that I've built
one up I think I could go start to finish in a few hours. Cabling this bike is
pretty easy once you understand the whole front derailleur issue. With having to buy
a shock and hardware, it's hardly a super cheap build. It really is in the 
neighborhood of a spearfish and a decent build puts it in Giant Anthem territory.
But none of those bikes will build this light. I am favorably inclined towards this
frame. I expect the price to come down and with some opportunistic shopping one could
put together a very light build for about $2K.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

nbwallace said:


> .
> But none of those bikes will build this light. I am favorably inclined towards this
> frame. I expect the price to come down and with some opportunistic shopping one could
> put together a very light build for about $2K.












Damn that bike is so light it's gravity defying. Pity I can't link your last attached pic before you put it the right way up


----------



## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

great write up!


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## Overr (Jun 26, 2010)

And your impressions about the bike? the ride? and frame stiffness?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Eric seems to like it a lot*

My buddy Eric took it out yesterday. He called the ride nimble and supple. He did bottom the suspension a few times, so it's not dialed in yet. I'll try to get a hold of it for a ride at some point and put it through its paces.

Sorry for the upside down photo.


----------



## phazeshifta (Oct 1, 2011)

Now I know what an Australian MTB looks like!


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I got sick of turning my laptop upside down:



Looks nice... who's next?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> There are bearings in the lower
> and upper main pivots. Everything else has bolts that act as bushings. I fear for
> the longevity of the pivots.


Have any pics of these disassembled? That really doesn't good. I'd seriously consider getting a machine shop to turn up some Delrin bushings and custom bolts for you. I really don't see the pivots lasting too long like that and then you'll be looking at worn pivots that will need to be machined round again.

Also, does front derailleur cable housing anchor into the swingarm? It's hard to tell from the photos, but it almost looks that way.

It certainly looks nice and I'm glad he's happy with it. I'm personally still in the camp of not willing to be an early adopter.


----------



## reydin (Feb 5, 2007)

two-one said:


> I got sick of turning my laptop upside down:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice... who's next?


Wow :yikes:, it might grow on me but right now, fugly comes to mind.


----------



## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

two-one said:


> I got sick of turning my laptop upside down:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice... who's next?


I like It.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

reydin said:


> Wow :yikes:, it might grow on me but right now, fugly comes to mind.


Don't know that I would say that but I know I'm not sold on that cable routing under the bb area.


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

giant anthem will build lighter than that. I saw a 24lb build on here.

The anthem frame weighs 5lbs 6oz. including the shock


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Thanks for fixing the photo*

The medium AC-036 only weighed 2040g without shock. That's about 2270 with, which is still almost one third of a pound lighter than the Giant. I'd think you'd drop a lot more building up the Giant to 24 lbs. I can't tell you what I've spent on the Spider to get it to about 26.2 plus I got a great deal on the frame. Also your bike would then say Giant in about 27 places.

Eric likes the frame, there is one linkage which needs some kind of washer to keep it from knocking. It's more of an annoyance. If this frame came down to something like $600 it would be a great ride for the money.

I also think it's a nice looking frame, especially in matte carbon.


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## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

not busting on you. just saying there are some light anthem builds out there.

the frame looks great. just wondering about any warranty issues ect.


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## grouan (Jul 29, 2004)

Very cool write and build post- Gracias for posting up the project.


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## Napfgeist (Jan 4, 2004)

Great review and nice setup, thanks! :thumbsup:
Can you provide a picture with the rear tire clearance?
Thanks


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Does anyone else sense something fundamentally wrong with such a chainstay mounted rear disc caliper on a FS bike? From an observational point of view, that's asking for brake jack, since the caliper is clamping the rotor as it's making a downward motion, which would create a force that would also drive the swingarm downward, stiffening the suspension under braking. The typical caliper location creates a force that is up-forward (a little pro brake-squat) at sag and less up and more forward as you get deeper in travel (more brake neutral).


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> Does anyone else sense something fundamentally wrong with such a chainstay mounted rear disc caliper on a FS bike? From an observational point of view, that's asking for brake jack, since the caliper is clamping the rotor as it's making a downward motion, which would create a force that would also drive the swingarm downward, stiffening the suspension under braking. The typical caliper location creates a force that is up-forward (a little pro brake-squat) at sag and less up and more forward as you get deeper in travel (more brake neutral).


Aside from there being no consensus on what is good and what isn't, this isn't functionally different than many single pivot designs, it's just odd for a design that has a pivot on the "seatstay". Simple swingarm designs are like this.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

craigsj said:


> Aside from there being no consensus on what is good and what isn't, this isn't functionally different than many single pivot designs, it's just odd for a design that has a pivot on the "seatstay". Simple swingarm designs are like this.


:???:

I'm criticizing the location of the rear disc brake caliper. It doesn't really matter what suspension design it is, except for a few designs that have lots of rearward travel/axle path. They're all designed to go up, and that brake is directing forces downward. That's the dreaded brake jack that most bikes have been dreading before the days disc brakes became popular.









Niner CVA - the caliper catches the rotor when it is moving forward, which has minimal effect on suspension action. Not sure how CVA looks fully compressed, but considering the relatively vertical axle path of CVA suspension design, I doubt its braking characteristics change much according to where it is in its travel.









Trek ABP - the caliper catches the rotor when it is moving forward, and a little up, having a very slight effect on suspension action, actually make it feel plusher due to the slight brake squat. Due to the arcing axle path, and how the seatstay tilts a little further in its travel range, it becomes more neutral with less braking squat as you get deeper in travel.









Zerode G1 - Here's a bike known to have brake jack. The brake is mounted on the primary swingarm, which is the main arm that goes from the main pivot to the axle. The braking forces pushes forward, while the swingarm wants to arc backwards and upwards. As it gets deeper in travel, the braking forces want to push down and forward, countering the forces that bumps have on the suspension. This is why such high pivot designs typically have floating brakes. See YouTube video clip of how its braking habits change significantly as it goes through its travel and why similar bikes have floating brakes. Australians making things backwards... Sorry, just teasing. 









Devinci Wilson - proper disc caliper mounting location for isolating braking forces on high single pivot. The swingarm is not always the chainstay, as seen on the two high single pivots above. Note how the mount comes out to position the brake caliper into a position that catches the rotor during the forward moving part of its rotation for relatively* neutral braking (* still counters the rearward travel/axle path).









Santa Cruz Bullit - Santa Cruz had very limited space to fit this caliper location in, but they put it in a very good spot, before going with a floating brake mount.









Another faux bar. Hoping that people see the pattern.









Fabien Barel's Kona that he won the DH World Champs on. He specifically asked for more brake squat, which is why the floating brake is configured that way--it catches rotor so it has more upward force, which apply forces that would try to compress the suspension or lift the axle. Since this pivot arcs back at first, maybe that was a wise move, as this setup counters that rearward arc even less than a more "neutral braking" setup.

The chainstay mount works for a hardtail, as it only helps to drive the rear end into the ground more, for extra friction between the ground and wheel. In this single pivot application, it works like anti-squat, extending the swingarm. Taking it further than that, my conclusion is the probably not much more credible than others.


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Most of the photos you posted aren't "faux bar" like this frame. On a "faux bar", the lower swingarm is where the the caliper needs to be anchored unless the upper linkage shares a pivot with the axle (Trek). Assuming that's where you mount the caliper, it doesn't matter how you orient it. The braking force is going to twist the swingarm in the same direction that the tire is rolling. Mounting the caliper at 12 o'clock or 9 o'clock won't have any impact on how braking compresses the suspension.


----------



## Guest (Dec 22, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> I'm criticizing the location of the rear disc brake caliper. It doesn't really matter what suspension design it is, except for a few designs that have lots of rearward travel/axle path. They're all designed to go up, and that brake is directing forces downward. That's the dreaded brake jack that most bikes have been dreading before the days disc brakes became popular.
> ...
> The chainstay mount works for a hardtail, as it only helps to drive the rear end into the ground more, for extra friction between the ground and wheel. In this single pivot application, it works like anti-squat, extending the swingarm. Taking it further than that, my conclusion is the probably not much more credible than others.


I agree with your last sentence, the rest is a joke. You understand brake jack like you understand anti-squat,,,much too poorly to be commenting on it.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

car_nut said:


> On a "faux bar", the lower swingarm is where the the caliper needs to be anchored unless the upper linkage shares a pivot with the axle (Trek).


I thought the main design feature behind split pivot and ABP was _not_ mounting the caliper on the main swingarm, to further isolate braking forces from suspension forces, compared to other single pivots. Who says you *need* to mount it on the "lower" swingarm? Isn't it just because it happens to be a stronger place to put it, for faux bars designs, allowing you to lighten up the seat stays? I'm not saying it should be mounted on the seatstay. It's just the position that looks wrong to me. The designers who mount it between the chainstay and seatstay on hardtails say it improves braking power, but I guess that's more bike industry bullcrap, unless they mean because of greater airflow over the pads. It's in one of the articles about those bikes that I recall reading some comment about how it drives the wheel into the ground for more braking traction.



car_nut said:


> Assuming that's where you mount the caliper, it doesn't matter how you orient it. The braking force is going to twist the swingarm in the same direction that the tire is rolling. Mounting the caliper at 12 o'clock or 9 o'clock won't have any impact on how braking compresses the suspension.


Do you mind elaborating? Why wouldn't it matter if it's mounted at 12 or at 9 or anywhere else for that matter? If what you say is true, what caused the brake jack of older single pivot/faux bar designs, including designs with rim brakes? I know many confused brake squat with brake jack, but I know some were clear about designs stiffening under braking. Do mind including how your explanation covers designs with floating brakes like the Kona DOPE, Lahar, Bullit, Lawwill, etc.? Also, mind explaining how it works to initiate a nose dive when used in mid-air, if that's relevant?

I'm assuming I'm asking the right guy, who knows of statics and dynamics.


----------



## Guest (Dec 22, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> The designers who mount it between the chainstay and seatstay on hardtails say it improves braking power, but I guess that's more bike industry bullcrap, unless they mean because of greater airflow over the pads. It's in one of the articles about those bikes that I recall reading some comment about how it drives the wheel into the ground for more braking traction.


Yes, that would be bullcrap.



Varaxis said:


> Why wouldn't it matter if it's mounted at 12 or at 9 or anywhere else for that matter? If what you say is true, what caused the brake jack of older single pivot/faux bar designs, including designs with rim brakes?


Mass transfer, the same thing that causes dive in the fork.



Varaxis said:


> I know many confused brake squat with brake jack, but I know some were clear about designs stiffening under braking.


Squat and jack are directions, not unique phenomena. The rear suspension naturally jacks under braking. The geometry of the rear suspension + brake will generate a force that resists that jacking tendency (though negative values will amplify it). Designers can choose to control this force using a floating brake or they can mount the caliper on the swing arm and let the force be determined by the main pivot. The orientation of the caliper is not what matters.

There is no agreement on the right amount of brake anti-jack as there is with anti-squat. Anti-jack works by unweighting the wheel so benefits come with liabilities.


----------



## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I've got a good experiment. Flip your bike over, spin the wheel and then grab it with your hand. It will apply a force in the same direction of the wheel rotation, regardless of where you grab on the wheel.

Suspension designs come into play in the direction of wheel rotation while braking. Where the caliper is located is not as important as the design of the suspension itself.

For hardtails, placing the caliper on the chainstay was popular because the chainstays are usually stronger and don't always require frame reinforcement. I prefer seatstay mounted for convenience.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> I thought the main design feature behind split pivot and ABP was _not_ mounting the caliper on the main swingarm, to further isolate braking forces from suspension forces, compared to other single pivots. Who says you *need* to mount it on the "lower" swingarm?


Sorry, I don't think I was clear with that. My point was that the caliper needs to be mounted to the same arm that is carrying the axle mount. The reason is so that the caliper isn't moving relative to the disc as you compress the suspension. The Trek ABP is unique in that they place the linkage pivot at the same point as the axle. This gives you the freedom to mount the caliper to either linkage arm. You are correct in stating that the whole point behind ABP is to isolate the braking force from acting on the suspension.



Varaxis said:


> Do you mind elaborating? Why wouldn't it matter if it's mounted at 12 or at 9 or anywhere else for that matter? If what you say is true, what caused the brake jack of older single pivot/faux bar designs, including designs with rim brakes? I know many confused brake squat with brake jack, but I know some were clear about designs stiffening under braking.


The force on the caliper causes an equal and opposite reaction at the axle. These cancel out. What's driving the suspension to compress (edit: squat) is that you have the wheel spinning and you are now locking the wheel to the swingarm. This makes the swingarm want to rotate in the same direction as the wheel, which compresses it.

The design types with a floating caliper and added linkage attempt to separate these forces and drive the resulting force into the frame, not the suspension.


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## wildsoil777 (Apr 28, 2010)

Hey thanks for the write up and pics.
I'm the guy that got the ebay $639 price before they raised it to $1100 then pulled the frame all together. Happy estore said that they couldnt ship for 5 to 6 weeks and wanted to refund my money. I said "I'll wait". They wrote back "you are the lucky dog...the price is now $1100!" 
Hope it shows up. I'll post the progress.
Any news updates on the ride?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Yea, I was wrong from the moment I was thinking the force created from braking was a vector instead of a torque. That experiment won't really help if I'm dead set thinking it's a vector, as I could just explain it as a force that follows a tangent line, perpendicular to a line drawn from the center of the wheel to the point where I grabbed the edge of the wheel. That's sort of the definition of a torque though, with the axis in consideration. I could just conveniently ignore the axis, though. 

I realized that soon enough when I had people* raising the bullcrap flag and I bothered to look it up, as it was a simple enough mistake. *specifically car_nut, as craigsj seems to like to ridicule others and argue over semantics more than science. Thanks for the extra explanations though.



car_nut said:


> The design types with a floating caliper and added linkage attempt to separate these forces and drive the resulting force into the frame, not the suspension.


I guess what I really wanted to know was an in-depth explanation on how the design works on Fabien Barel's floating mount brake, which was designed to induce more brake squat in a controlled manner. I recall a comment saying the brake squat in the rear was intended to balance the bike out with fork dive in consideration. I don't really want to think that is bullcrap. Actually, nevermind, that belongs in another thread.

It's enough to know that odd caliper location doesn't affect brake jack/anti-squat or squat.


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## wobbem (Jul 19, 2009)

Re Varaxis.
Ah just to clarify, the Zerode is a bike designed in New Zealand, far to complicated for the Aussies


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## dickyelsdon (Dec 22, 2010)

> I guess what I really wanted to know was an in-depth explanation on how the design works on Fabien Barel's floating mount brake, which was designed to induce more brake squat in a controlled manner. I recall a comment saying the brake squat in the rear was intended to balance the bike out with fork dive in consideration. I don't really want to think that is bullcrap. Actually, nevermind, that belongs in another thread.


Well for starters that pic of the Kona above does not show how Fabien ran his rear brake. The Stab has 2 mount holes on the frame and in that pic the floater is mounted to the upper hole, with the lower hole by the BB.

Mounting in the upper hole (as above) gives more neutral braking than mounting to the swingarm itself, as the caliper mount is basically held parallel to the frame throughout the suspension travel, neutrailising any of the rotational force imparted on the caliper when you pull the brake.

The lower hole gives a whole different feel. havnt got time to explain fully just now but ill try and put together some diagrams later. Just to say tho, its VERY hard to ride a bike like this, the extreme squat of this set-up means the rear brake is much less effective (as soon as it gets grip the wheel shoots through its travel, meaning it unwieghts a little and gets less grip!). This set-up is for serious recers only, who can use it to help them squish right into berms by dragging the rear brake on the way in, pre-compressing the rear suspension so they can really pump though the corner and fire out the other side. Not a set-up for the feint harted, one panic brake and you lose all your rear travel, not fun when lending a drop or hitting a rock garden (personal experience!!!)

Rich.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Any updates by people riding these frames? Im really curious about the longevity non-bearing pivots. How are they holding up? And is the rear triangle stiff enough with just a QR?


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> I realized that soon enough when I had people* raising the bullcrap flag and I bothered to look it up, as it was a simple enough mistake. *specifically car_nut, as craigsj seems to like to ridicule others and argue over semantics more than science. Thanks for the extra explanations though.


I ridicule others who pretend to understand science while passing themselves off as experts. People like you, Varaxis. The more people are informed of your pretense the more they will ignore what you have to say. It's a public service.  I certainly don't care whether you learn anything about brake jack since you aren't here to learn in the first place.



Varaxis said:


> I guess what I really wanted to know was an in-depth explanation on how the design works on Fabien Barel's floating mount brake, which was designed to induce more brake squat in a controlled manner. I recall a comment saying the brake squat in the rear was intended to balance the bike out with fork dive in consideration. I don't really want to think that is bullcrap. Actually, nevermind, that belongs in another thread.


Are you saying you haven't read Foale Chapter 9 or simply that you don't understand it? Hard to believe considering you pretended to have read it in this thread. Understanding these things takes a little more effort than just throwing a few vocabulary words around and then complaining that others argue your "semantics".


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> Does anyone else sense something fundamentally wrong with such a chainstay mounted rear disc caliper on a FS bike? From an observational point of view, that's asking for brake jack, since the caliper is clamping the rotor as it's making a downward motion, which would create a force that would also drive the swingarm downward, stiffening the suspension under braking. The typical caliper location creates a force that is up-forward (a little pro brake-squat) at sag and less up and more forward as you get deeper in travel (more brake neutral).


My Felt Compulsion had it there and I didn't feel any brake jack


----------



## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

TwoTone said:


> My Felt Compulsion had it there and I didn't feel any brake jack


As was said in post #3, this bike looks similar to the Scott Spark 29. Here's an analysis of the Scott. Run it through your favorite translator as necessary.

You can see that there isn't brake jack.


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## fast540 (May 29, 2011)

this rame looks sic and at 26.5 is pretty light but sayin a spearfish is heavier is kinda silly mines built up at 26.3 on a park tools scale. that being said i dig the look of this rig and would have fun building one up in gloss 12k.Im always lookin for a new build project


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## Boberinoe (May 26, 2007)

two-one said:


> I got sick of turning my laptop upside down:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice... who's next?


Really diggin' the build, looks great!


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*As far as I'm concerned it's not flexy*

Once begot the upper pivot tightened up the frame is less flexy with a rare QR than my Spider with a 10mm RWS. I think it's a pretty solid frame.

My reservations would be about the pivots where there are bushings rather than bearings. That's a longevity issue, which won't be answered until many miles are put on the frame.

The frame really looks like a Fisher Superfly 100. Obviously not as light. If the price cam down $100 it would be a deal, where it stands now at about $1050 delivered with an RT-3 it's the lightest alternative, with more travel than a sprearfish. The quality of the carbon is great.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

nbwallace said:


> Once begot the upper pivot tightened up the frame is less flexy with a rare QR than my Spider with a 10mm RWS. I think it's a pretty solid frame.
> 
> My reservations would be about the pivots where there are bushings rather than bearings. That's a longevity issue, which won't be answered until many miles are put on the frame.


So there were DU bushings on the smaller pivots? Not just bare steel bolt-on-carbon action?


nbwallace said:


> The frame really looks like a Fisher Superfly 100. Obviously not as light. If the price cam down $100 it would be a deal, where it stands now at about $1050 delivered with an RT-3 it's the lightest alternative, with more travel than a sprearfish. The quality of the carbon is great.


I'd consider giving the technical drawing to Push, to let them tune a nice Monarch RT3 for me, and building it up with that...


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Not really bushings*

The non-bearing pivots have small holy into a nut which has a built in sleeve, which acts like a bushing, but it's not really a bushing in that it doesn't rotate independently of the bolt. I requested some spares with my road frame. When I get them, I'll shoot some pics.

I would say the rt-3 high tune, works pretty well. Clearly a custom tune would be an improvement. If Push can come up with a custom tune, that would be awesome.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

nbwallace said:


> The non-bearing pivots have small holy into a nut which has a built in sleeve, which acts like a bushing, but it's not really a bushing in that it doesn't rotate independently of the bolt. I requested some spares with my road frame. When I get them, I'll shoot some pics.
> 
> I would say the rt-3 high tune, works pretty well. Clearly a custom tune would be an improvement. If Push can come up with a custom tune, that would be awesome.


Hm, it's those non-bearing pivots that's holding me off... especially the swing link's, as it makes a pretty big rotation. They dont even contain any delrin/teflon composite bushings? Just metal-on-metal?

Push should be able to make a nice tune based on the leverage-graph posted earlier, right?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*It's really metal screw on carbon*

Those non-bearing pivots are really non-threaded metal on carbon. There's no teflon, also when the frame arrived no grease, which made the suspension impossible to cycle, even without a shock installed.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> Those non-bearing pivots are really non-threaded metal on carbon.




I hope that bike is a garage queen, because it isn't going to last long otherwise. Seriously. Take that thing to a machinist and have them fit some bushings and custom hardware.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

The frame has finally arrived!! Unfortunately I had to give up the matte finish. I would have to wait a few weeks. The frame was ordered in October......Hongfu :madmax:

@nbwallace: can you show me what you used to attach the shock to the frame?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Did you find that your pivots were greased when the frame arrived?*

Have you noticed if you can cycle the pivots manually? When our frame first arrived I couldn't until I lubed all the pivots.

It takes some doing to get the rear derailleur dialed in since at least with the xt e-mount we used the cable clamping bolt was not readily accessible. I also had to adjust the angle of the front der using a couple of washers under the frame mount.

To mount the shock you need the rockshox m8x22.2mm kits for both the upper and lower mounts:

Universal Cycles -- Rock Shox Monarch/Vivid/Ario 3.2 Mount Kits

I used m8x40mm bolts for both the mounts. For the upper mount I used a m8 lock nut and for the lower mount nut I MacGyvered something together using a brass threaded insert as shown in the attached image:


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks nbwallace, very ingenious, I could not think of anything for the lower mount nut.
About pivots, I also noticed some clutch in motion, what kind of lube did you use?


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*A bit of Polylube*



LoAl said:


> Thanks nbwallace, very ingenious, I could not think of anything for the lower mount nut.
> About pivots, I also noticed some clutch in motion, what kind of lube did you use?


I used polylube, but I'd guess any waterproof or synthetic grease would be fine.

For the part I showed in the photo above I started with these:

Amazon.com: E-Z LOK Threaded Insert For Hard Wood, M8-1.25 Int Thread - Brass (Pack of 10): Industrial & Scientific

I threaded one onto an M8 bolt and put the bolt in a drill chuck (I used an air drill) I spun it up and filed off the outer threads. I had to cut it off a bit too. I'm rather proud of myself for coming up with the idea of a makeshift lathe.

I found a pre-made fitting online in titanium somewhere. If someone knows of a bike with an 8mm lower link, one could probably order the through bolts for that setup.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Anybody else order one of these frames? Any updates from those that did? Do any of the vendors offer a kit for the shock mounts?

The discussions on the pivots and the shock hardware keep pushing me away from this frame, but then the prices on similar branded frames bring me back to it. That along with there's limited options for 135mm rear and standard bottom bracket since most vendors are moving on from that.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

Lack of shock kit is a major turnoff.


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## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm waiting for the frame. We'll see how I make do with the shock mount


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

wiro said:


> I'm waiting for the frame. We'll see how I make do with the shock mount


Could you make some pictures of the (disassembled) suspension pivots if possible? I'd like to know if there is any way to put a delrin bushing in there.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi guys, I have one of these also, im wondering what shocks your all using on yours?
I'm just about to order my replacement as I had a 190mm i2i on my Gary Fisher and its much bigger, it looks like it should be 184mm so im surprised at the start of the thread you put on a 165mm ???

Thanks


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok i couldnt see the geometry diagram on page 1, cheers anyway chaps.


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## J34 (Dec 18, 2011)

eliflap said:


> 165mm eye to eye
> 
> 1950 g the weight in 17,5"
> 
> rear skewer 135mm not 142 , as you can see on picture ( normal mtb )


Hrmm...this is one high maintenance frameset.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

WTF? After all I contributed to this thread I get neg rep for a "douchy comment".


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I removed the shock and measured i2i on the frame fully extended and it was roughly 185mm, that's a big difference between that and a 165mm shock? 
Has anyone tried a 184mm shock? 
I'm worried about running a 165mm shock and being too slack? 
Anyone else measured there frame i2i?


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

two-one said:


> Could you make some pictures of the (disassembled) suspension pivots if possible? I'd like to know if there is any way to put a delrin bushing in there.


Second on additional pics of the pivots if possible. Some of the discussions about the pivots have me concerned.

I'm tempted to order one of these for the price to get me through the season till I can splurge for a carbon Tallboy build. I have a shock of my broken canzo which has the same eye to eye and should be close on the tune which should work. If they would offer a shock mount kit I'd prob give it a try but I don't want to deal with scrounging for parts to make the bike usable.

Doesn't seem like many have bought or had much to say about this frame...


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*If you look at my previous posts it's not such a big deal*

I agree the lack of shock hardware is really annoying. I should probably talk to the folks at ICAN about it.

That said, the shock hardware isn't such a big deal. Two off the shelf hardware kits from UniversalCycles.com a couple of m8 socket head bolts an m8 lock nut and something to hold the lower bolt. If you ask nicely for $10 plus shipping I'll make you one. I wish I had stainless steel then I could try anodizing.

I really wish I had a lathe then I could be cranking these things out. I bet if someone knew what they were called we could find them online, or see if you can find a bike with m8 shock mounts and see what they used. I'm guessing something from Intense or Fisher would probably work.

Eric loves his dually and is working hard to lighten it. The weight to dollar ratio of this frame is hard to ignore especially if you have a shock laying around.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I used the kit from a yetti, its the same as ones from my Gary fisher 292 if that helps


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Thanks for the replies regarding the hardware. That and the pivots have me concerned. In the past budget options generally end up being more of a headache and causing more problems than money saved so I'm def hesitating. Although at $800 shipped with a headset and having a shock that should work makes it tough to pass up, I could swing a new road frame and single speed frame too for that price...


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

If you go to www . Flyxii . Com its only $700 posted


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

vwsurfbum said:


> If you go to www . Flyxii . Com its only $700 posted


There website doesn't seem to want to open for me right now. I'll have to try again later. I was quoted $700 for the frame, $15 for the headset and $85 for shipping from Hungfu.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I'll pm you the link. As im a newbie it won't let me post links yet


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry it won't let me pm yet either! Lol 

if you do manage to get on to the site, go to bike parts, mtb frames, 2nd page.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

vwsurfbum said:


> Sorry it won't let me pm yet either! Lol
> 
> if you do manage to get on to the site, go to bike parts, mtb frames, 2nd page.


Page is working now. I'm going to assume it's going to be pretty much all the same pricing and details as hungfu but I'll email them too. Thanks!


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

It was $700 delivered inc headset to the UK


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

OK i have measured my shock again


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

i also got hold of a 165mm shock. has anyone else checked their i2i yet?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Right so today i was going to try a 184mm shock, but did get to try a few other things.
First off measured again the i2i








picked up a 165mm shock off a friend, as thats what you lot are using. 
















before swapping them over i measured the head angle, 75' 
so i put the 165mm shock on. 








so not only does it have to move quite a long way in (so loosing travel) it decreases the head angle by 5' 








So i'm going to order the Monarch 184mm shock

In the mean time i took some photos in the snow.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

75 degrees headtube angle? Thats a bit excessive, isn't it? I'd stick with the 165 shock!


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

vwsurfbum said:


> It was $700 delivered inc headset to the UK


So do their prices listed include shipping? I did email them but didn't hear anything back from them yet. If it can get it for $700 delivered I might just have to give it a try.

Your build looks good. How did you fair out with the shock mounting?

I agree with the 75 degree head angle being a bit much. Any ride comparison with the 165mm and 184mm? What are your thoughts on the build overall?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

finny1999 said:


> So do their prices listed include shipping? I did email them but didn't hear anything back from them yet. If it can get it for $700 delivered I might just have to give it a try.
> 
> Your build looks good. How did you fair out with the shock mounting?
> 
> I agree with the 75 degree head angle being a bit much. Any ride comparison with the 165mm and 184mm? What are your thoughts on the build overall?


yes the prices include shipping.

It bugged me that much about the head angle, just went out to the shed.
Right measured it on the sanctions at 72' with the longer shock. so withe the 184 I would guestimate at 71' ish??


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry. The shock mounting is easy, normal 8mm Allen headed bolts and 20mm fixxings


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Thanks for the info and updates. Looks like if I can't find a decent deal on a Tallboy over the next few weeks I'll order one of these to get me by.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

After todays ride in the snow we managed to weigh all our bikes. So Inc 2.4 big ass mountain kings (with tubes) V8 pedals and light fittings it comes in at


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## Jensen330 (Dec 3, 2011)

Are the headtubes on these tapered or stright 1 1/8th?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

tapered


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## Jensen330 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sorry for the noobish questions but im new to full suspension biked and am wanting to build one off this frame. Will a 2x7.5 fox rear shock work with this bike?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

No thats too long, thats what i'm using until i get my new one.


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## Jensen330 (Dec 3, 2011)

so i'm guessing a 6.5 is what i should be looking for?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I think its a 7.25, but i havent had a chance to try it yet.


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## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

Subscribed


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## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

I think 

Chinese frame it resembles that of the spark rc 29. angle is also similar.


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## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

And the Chinese one


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok so I ordered a 184mm fox RP2 so I'll update you if it fits or not


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## wedge (Jun 24, 2006)

sorry, but why do you insist on putting a different length shock as what it was intended for...I don't get it???


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I couldn't get the correct information.(I already had this frame before stumbling across this site) I was measuring it i2i on the frame. 
But as the new shock arrived today, it definitely didn't fit, about 2mm too big. 
So now going to get the Scott nude shock as that's 165 and all the internal routing is there for it.


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## wedge (Jun 24, 2006)

I see.

Is it possible to get the nude shock alone?

all the internal routing for it? that's further proof that this "mystery frame" is in fact a Scott Spark copy...


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

wedge said:


> I see.
> 
> Is it possible to get the nude shock alone?
> 
> all the internal routing for it? that's further proof that this "mystery frame" is in fact a Scott Spark copy...


It's actually more of a superfly100 copy without the ABP... the geometry matches up pretty well. But I will stay away from this frame for next couple of months, untill I know how it holds up. I'm still unsure which pivots contain bearings, and which don't.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

vwsurfbum said:


> In the mean time i took some photos in the snow.


If you have a bike where the brake and gear cables are routed underneath the bottom bracket there needs to be a loop of cable beneath the bottom bracket, so that when the suspension is fully compressed the cables don't pull tight. The cables need to be long enough so that they don't touch the frame at full compression.

If the cables pull tight when the suspension compresses then it will wear a groove in the bottom bracket shell. It can also cause ghost shifting and possibly damage the cables too.

The picture below shows the cable routing beneath a Specialized Epic's bottom bracket. It looks like your frame probably needs similar cable routing also.


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

you can buy this one on German ebay! looks familiar!


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

one more post


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

here we go! eBay: Neue und gebrauchte Elektronikartikel, Autos, Kleidung, Sammlerst


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

here the colored versions! 1799€. WOW.

Best-Bike-Parts


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

boseta said:


> here the colored versions! 1799€. WOW.
> 
> Best-Bike-Parts


Paint is expensive


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

WR304 said:


> If you have a bike where the brake and gear cables are routed underneath the bottom bracket there needs to be a loop of cable beneath the bottom bracket, so that when the suspension is fully compressed the cables don't pull tight. The cables need to be long enough so that they don't touch the frame at full compression.
> 
> If the cables pull tight when the suspension compresses then it will wear a groove in the bottom bracket shell. It can also cause ghost shifting and possibly damage the cables too.
> 
> The picture below shows the cable routing beneath a Specialized Epic's bottom bracket. It looks like your frame probably needs similar cable routing also.


The cables to the rear mech is fine with its internal routing but the rear brake hose needs to be about 2-3" longer. thats next weeks job.



wedge said:


> I see.
> 
> Is it possible to get the nude shock alone?
> 
> all the internal routing for it? that's further proof that this "mystery frame" is in fact a Scott Spark copy...


 There is a guy selling a new one with switch gear on ebay.co.uk 
Its closer to the scott than the GF with its internal cable routing and 165mm rear shock
I have a Fox RL on there at the moment and it works a treat. 
Once i'm off death row (i have man flu) i will get some pictures up of the pivots etc.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

hmmm, this Santa Cruz is making these "cheap chinese 29er duallies" look not so cheap. $1050 frame with shock


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## LowOnO2 (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't think that is for the carbon SC.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

LowOnO2 said:


> I don't think that is for the carbon SC.


It's not, but at 5.9 lb frame weight and dual suspension, does it matter that it's not carbon?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

emu26 said:


> It's not, but at 5.9 lb frame weight and dual suspension, does it matter that it's not carbon?


Salsa already had that covered with the Spearfish


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

emu26 said:


> It's not, but at 5.9 lb frame weight and dual suspension, does it matter that it's not carbon?


Yes, or at least for some of us. I haven't looked at this thread solely because of price or weight, but because i'm interested in the durability and ride qualities that carbon has to offer at a reasonable price.

If weight is your primary objective as mentioned there is the spearfish for the same money and the anthem x for not much more. From the talk on the $1050 Santa Cruz offering it is a budget option with a single pivot and if its anything like it's 26er version a flexy bike especially in the larger sizes. I'm not sure if the carbon frames in this thread are any better or not as there has been much feedback or comparisons but in theory this carbon frame should be much stiffer and more durable that what other $1000 offering are. Only time will tell on that one though.


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## wedge (Jun 24, 2006)

yep. people need to start realize that light weight is not the only thing carbon has to offer.


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## boseta (Jul 26, 2008)

3300 € on ebay. Specialized pricing on chinese frame. not bad!!! 29er Full Suspension Carbon 29 Zoll MTB- 11,6kg - 17,5" NEU | eBay


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

FYI, this has already been reported.

EDIT: Incase you are wondering what this is about, there were three spam posts above it. Why this post was not removed with them, is anybody's guess.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

wedge said:


> yep. people need to start realize that light weight is not the only thing carbon has to offer.


Wedge I am well aware of that but I started this thread more from a price point than a carbon point of view. My 26" hardtail is carbon not al or steel because it is complient where I want it to be and stiff as a board where it should be.

The compliance of carbon is lost here because it is a thread about duallies as opposed to the other 29er cheap chinese carbon thread which is about hardtails.

The mistake I have clearly made in my last post is not appreciating how flexy the santa cruz is feared to be and if it is flexy then obviously the carbon frame will trump it. From a price perspective though my last comment stands true, at $800 + shock + pivot bearings etc, the chinese carbon duallie is no longer "cheap" in comparison to the $1050 Santa Cruz that comes with a warranty that I think most of us would trust.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Interesting pricing difference over the other side of the pond, anything with santacruz written on it would be about £1500 upwards and that's if we even get a chance to buy it! 
But theses work out about £460! Big difference in price.

Beyonce pics


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

i think i'm gonna order the frame from flyxii. they offer free delivery.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> i think i'm gonna order the frame from flyxii. they offer free delivery.


Do you know if it's by air or ship? Boat can take several months.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

Lenny7 said:


> Do you know if it's by air or ship? Boat can take several months.


i don't think that it would take too long. i'm in Siberia. i ordered some gadgets at DealExtreme, it took 1.5 month or smth about.


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## Pepperagge (Feb 25, 2004)

vwsurfbum said:


> Interesting pricing difference over the other side of the pond, anything with santacruz written on it would be about £1500 upwards and that's if we even get a chance to buy it!
> But theses work out about £460! Big difference in price.
> 
> Beyonce pics


Yep, big difference! 
Here in Sweden it will also be about a factor of three between them in price.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

these pivot bearings or non-bearing pivot keeps away from it. it would be no joy to brake frame or/and injury yourself in the middle of trail cause grease leaked from these non-bearings


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*The main pivots have bearings*

The lower pivots most certainly have bearings. The pivots at the chain stays are brass bushings if I remember correctly. Time will tell if this is a problem. I have no idea what Scott uses at their pivots. I would be interested to know.

However, I very much doubt that bearing vs bushings at a pivot will cause a catastrophic failure on the trail. It seems far fetched, but anything is possible. If you want to argue that the frames are fragile and as such they may break, that would be catastrophic. But most carbon failures turn out to be non-catastrophic, other than a hike back out of wherever you happen to be riding. Which in some cases is a catastrophe depending on your personal definition of that word.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

i speak of bearing/non-bearing/pivots, not carbon frame itself, i assume that material is good, but pivot is complex, and presume that chinese guys may not have done it reliable and strong.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> i speak of bearing/non-bearing/pivots, not carbon frame itself, i assume that material is good, but pivot is complex, and presume that chinese guys may not have done it reliable and strong.


Bushings are not a bad thing. The rear pivot hardly makes any rotations, so a simple delrin of DU bushing would be just fine!
I'm more curious about the upper&lower pivots of the swinging link, because they rotate quite a lot!


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I agree PG*

If there was one place where I thought they might mess up that would be it. I was wondering about the Scott because t looks as if that's what they copied. However if the mold is made well then the pivots should have proper alignment. That would be the most important thing. after that there is the question of whether there is after mold machining to fit the bushings or bearings in the frame. I can see lots of room for error.

In fact when I took the frame out of the box and found I couldn't cycles the suspension, I was very concerned. I took apart the pivots and greased them and made sure the torque was correct and that made a world of difference. I have ridden the assembled bike and the suspension is doing its job. It's not a VPP frame but so far my friend is liking it.

It may disintegrate over time. So maybe we're only renting a frame. The economic decision is something like buy a $800 frame and have it worth nothing after two years, versus buy a $2000 frame an have it worth $1100 after two years. I just bought a one year old Tallboy Carbon for $1K less than new, I probably overpaid, but used Tallboys are thin on the ground. In that case $800 loss in value doesn't seem so bad.

For my friend and I it was an experiment and so far he is very happy. We'll see how it survives his weekly Sunday ride and a few outings to Fountainhead.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

nbwallace, i eagerly wait the report about his ride and especially about the frame: its behavior, reliability, stiffness, bearing, bushing and so on.


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

I finally got all the components, so I could complete my bike:
Bar Grips: CTK
Brakes Rear: Formula R1 160mm
Brakes Front: Formula R1 160mm
Cables / Housing: Shimano
Cassette: Shimano XT 11/34 9-speed
Chain: KMC 9s
Crankset: Rotor 3D
– Outer Ring: Middleburn 36
– Middle Ring: Middleburn 22
– Ring Bolts: Carbon Ti
Derailleur Front: Shimano XTR
Derailleur Rear: Shimano XTR
Fork: Reba RL 80 mm tapered
Shock: Fox RP23
Frame: Hong Fu FM036
Handle Bar: CTK 680 mm
Headset: No brand China
Pedals: Crank Brother
Quick Releases: Tune
Seat Post: Thomson Elite
Seat Clamp: Salsa
Saddle: Merek
Shifter: Sram Attack
Stem: Easton EA70 90mm -20°
Tire Front: Maxxis Cross Mark
Tire Rear: Maxxis Cross mark 
Wheel set (Front): Tune King 32 Hole with No Tubes ZTR Crest Rim
Wheel set (Rear): Tune Kong 32 Hole with No Tubes ZTR Crest Rim

Weight 23,39


----------



## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

very nice!


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Very cool, but why 80mm rather than 100mm?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

nathanbal said:


> very nice!


Thank you


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

LoAl, have you tested the bike? how is suspension, its work, reliability ?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

TR said:


> Very cool, but why 80mm rather than 100mm?


Thanks, I wanted a race setting. I must say that the bike seemed like the same balanced



Perfect Gentleman said:


> LoAl, have you tested the bike? how is suspension, its work, reliability ?


I only noticed a little bending of seatstays. I improved by mounting a massive QR of my old Mavic ksyryum. To fully resolve, I would like to mount on rear hub a 135x10 thru axle. About the reliability of the pivots......we are waiting ....


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

and how does it work ?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Perfect Gentleman said:


> and how does it work ?


The feeling is of an active suspension. Only on very steep climb with 22t I noticed pedal bob, readily solved by activating high platform of fox rp23. However, this frame has a suspension scheme very similar to that of trek superfly 100


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

LoAl said:


> I finally got all the components, so I could complete my bike:


Very nice! And how is the braking on rough terrain, or in descents?


----------



## reydin (Feb 5, 2007)

LoAl said:


> I finally got all the components, so I could complete my bike:
> Bar Grips: CTK
> Brakes Rear: Formula R1 160mm
> Brakes Front: Formula R1 160mm
> ...


I'm wondering what was the final cost of this bike?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

two-one said:


> Very nice! And how is the braking on rough terrain, or in descents?


Thank you. It's my first 29". Downhill it's exhilarating: the bike goes over all the obstacles, reaching speed I could not imagine with 26". I must anticipate the braking with 160 mm rotors



reydin said:


> I'm wondering what was the final cost of this bike?


I can not give you a precise answer, 'cause the most of the components cames from my 26" frame. Approximately 3.900 euros (5k $)


----------



## vizsladog (Mar 15, 2009)

very nice build


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

vizsladog said:


> very nice build


Thank you


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi, 
Just comparing yours to mine, with 80mm forks your front end must be really low and the head angle would be really steep? have you measured it? 
I believe its designed for a 120mm fork?

I have had a couple of outings on mine now, broke my rear hanger both times :roll: no fault of the frame just unlucky 

What i will say about the frame is its incredibly stiff and performs very well over the bumps, handles jumps better than expected and drops like there not there, its borderline all mountain machine! 
I run bigger rotor at the front as i feel 160mm doesn't stop you quick enough when you have the bigger wheels, but it will only house a 160mm at the rear. not really a problem as dont use it too much. 

I have a race coming up in 2 weeks, hardly done any training due to being ill etc and keep braking mech hangers, but i feel it will handle anything thrown at it. 
The bearings at the back dont give me any reason for concern as they are the same as a scott spark to which it is based. :thumbsup:

anyways enjoying it this side of the pond, got new bits and few more carbon bits ordered i'll post some new pictures once arrived.

if you look at my sig you'll see photo's and weights


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I once believed the bike to be designed for a 120mm fork, but I must take that back... the geometry indicates ~510mm axle-to-crown, but I realise now that the geometry is shown unsagged, which would mean a 100mm fork (~490mm sagged)

I'm really itching to try this baby out, but I must restrain myself.... for now


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Surely with a 80 mm fork, the ride is quite nervous....Even the 29" can not be lazy


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

any news, updates ?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> Hi,
> Just comparing yours to mine, with 80mm forks your front end must be really low and the head angle would be really steep? have you measured it?
> I believe its designed for a 120mm fork?
> ........


Technical drawings give a fork length of 506 mm. This should be a 100 mm. With a 80 mm fork (fork lenght of 490 mm), in theory head tube angle has increased from 71 ° to 71.8°


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Some news. The assembly has resulted in some unexpected. The first, readily solved with a turn of a drill bit, has been the clogging of the end portion of a hole for the passage of the cable of the front derailleur. It was blocked by the material of the texture and color of a wax. The second unexpected was about the mounting of the front derailleur. The technical drawings of the frame suggested the use of a direct mount derailleur with two screws placed at 22 mm apart. So I ordered an S3 Sram X7 type double. When assembled, unfortunately I saw it was impossible to bring down the chain to 22. This is because the front derailleur is attached to the frame via a plate: this is too thick, then advances too preventing the derailleur to bring down the chain, even with the small screw end of stroke throughout unscrewed. I therefore had to fall back on triple front derailleur Shimano (XTR), always direct mount.
Finally I lost a little time to find the bolts for the fixing shock on the frame. The pin is M8, only that the nut for M8 (13 mm) did not enter into the lower connection (12 mm). So, since I wanted something light, I ordered two internally threaded titanium pins M8: the upper one measuring 31 mm, 36 mm lower. With four titanium screws M6/16 I assembled everything.


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

To the test. I adjusted the sag of the shock as indicated fox (9 mm lowering) and I inflated to 110 psi the two chambers of the fork (my weigh 73 kg). First, the riding position is as I wanted: the right saddle-handlebar height difference due to the choice of a fork travel of 80 mm. On paper, this choice would have unbalanced the whole, having regard to the rear travel of 100 mm, but finally I have to say I have not accused any type of problem. When using a large crown, it is noted that the chain line is just above the central pivot of the suspension scheme, ensuring independence of the work of the shock while pedaling.
On asphalt I have not seen pedal bob, this occurred only on a very steep uphill using 22. I turned pro-pedal, problem solved! Technique downhill: this bike is a train passing over everything, branches, rocks, channels, etc.. Limited only by the front tire on the muddy fractions, I did not feel very safe due to the low grip. Technique uphill: the lower front of the bike here really helped me, allowing me to advance without the risk of wheelies. It is clear that having the rear wheel constantly glued to the ground thanks to the shock work, it improves the performance. Singletrack in the undergrowth with tight bends: Here I found a little awkward, because I was losing time in tight maneuvers due to the high wheelbase. On the other hand, however I regained the gap of the driver ahead by exploiting the inertia of the wheel after having taken speed. In conclusion I enjoyed it, and that's what matters most to me ...
Bottom Line: I have to find a lateral draw bottle cage, this interferes with the shock


----------



## YMMV (Apr 28, 2011)

Edit. Meant to post in the other Carbon HT thread. Mods please delete.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Still think the fork should be 100-120mm, makes sense withe 100mm rear travel?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

YMMV said:


> Edit. Meant to post in the other Carbon HT thread. Mods please delete.


Sorry, but i didn't understand. Did I say something about the bike behaving as Ht?



vwsurfbum said:


> Still think the fork should be 100-120mm, makes sense withe 100mm rear travel?


It may not make sense, but I like to experiment


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Some new photos after a ride


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

looks good, more racy set up than mine!


----------



## YMMV (Apr 28, 2011)

LoAl said:


> Sorry, but i didn't understand. Did I say something about the bike behaving as Ht?
> 
> It may not make sense, but I like to experiment


Nope. I just replied to the wrong thread like a dummy. I was trying to reply to the other Chinese carbon frame thread, not this one (dual suspension).

BTW-nice rig!


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

nice to hear that testing went good. if my order of GT Zaskar fails, i definitely order this one


----------



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

LoAl said:


> Some new photos after a ride


So what was the final complete weight?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Mine comes in at 12kg but with big 2.4 mountain kings on (still muddy here in blighty) but I ordered some new rubber during the week, which will take it below 12 easily. 
Broke a spoke today on my CB wheels :evil:


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

here in Italy this frame is racing every weekend in hard xc and marathon races in one official team


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

*Want to buy new frame need help*

I own a Fuji 29er hard tail that I want to convert to a suspended bike. I love the fm036 and want to buy the frame. Here are my questions:

Are these sized pretty true? I'm 6'2" with 32" inseam riding a Large frame now. If you have experience with these can you recommend a size for me?

Can you look at the components I am hoping to put on it and let me know what will not work?

REAR TRIANGLE	Fuji Altair 2, custom tapered 7005 aluminum with Edge S-bend MonoStay, Cold forged dropout with CNC'D disc mount and replaceable hanger
FORK Rock Shox Reba 29 SL Air, 80mm Travel w/Remote PopLoc
CRANKSET	TruVativ Firex 3.1 GXP, 22/32/44T
BOTTOM BRACKET	TruVativ GXP Exterior Bearing System
PEDALS	Xpedo MF-3 clipless
FRONT DERAILLEUR	SRAM X.9, 34.9mm
REAR DERAILLEUR	SRAM X.9
SHIFTERS	SRAM X.9 Trigger, 27-speed
CASSETTE	SRAM PG-950, 11-34T 9-speed
CHAIN	KMC HG-73
FRONT HUB	Fuji Sealed Bearing Disc, 32H
REAR HUB	Fuji Sealed Bearing Disc, 32H
SPOKES	14G Stainless Steel
RIMS	WTB Lazer Disc Trail 29", 32H DW w/ Single Eyelet
TIRES	Continental Mountain King 29 X 2.2
TUBES	CST Lite presta
BRAKE SET	Avid Juicy 7 Hydraulic Disc, 160R/185F mm rotor
BRAKE LEVERS	Avid Juicy 7
HEADSET	V.P. A-42E 1 1/8" Press Fit Integrated, 30mm spacers
HANDLEBAR	Fuji Pro Riser 15mm double butted aluminum 31.8mm
STEM	Fuji Pro Ultalite Forged Alloy +/- 7 degree
TAPE/GRIP	Fuji Dual Density Kraton rubber
SADDLE	WTB Rocket V Comp SE
SEAT POST	Fuji Forged Al micro adjust, 350mm
SEAT CLAMP	Fuji Superlite Alloy, 34.9mm Laser Etched
WEIGHT, LB./KG.	28.96/13.135


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

*Fm036 what shock*

I have a DHX Air 5.0 that is 7.875X2.25. I see the fm035 takes 165mm shock. Would this translate?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Nope ut would need to be 7.25


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

modifier said:


> So what was the final complete weight?


10,610 kg



vontress said:


> I own a Fuji 29er hard tail that I want to convert to a suspended bike. I love the fm036 and want to buy the frame. Here are my questions:
> 
> Are these sized pretty true? I'm 6'2" with 32" inseam riding a Large frame now. If you have experience with these can you recommend a size for me?
> 
> Can you look at the components I am hoping to put on it and let me know what will not work?


FORK Rock Shox Reba 29 SL Air, 80mm Travel w/Remote PopLoc *OK*
CRANKSET	TruVativ Firex 3.1 GXP, 22/32/44T *OK *
BOTTOM BRACKET	TruVativ GXP Exterior Bearing System *OK*
PEDALS	Xpedo MF-3 clipless *OK*
FRONT DERAILLEUR	SRAM X.9, 34.9mm *NO (it needs direct mount)*
REAR DERAILLEUR	SRAM X.9 *OK*
SHIFTERS	SRAM X.9 Trigger, 27-speed *OK*
CASSETTE	SRAM PG-950, 11-34T 9-speed *OK *
CHAIN	KMC HG-73 *OK*
FRONT HUB	Fuji Sealed Bearing Disc, 32H *OK *
REAR HUB	Fuji Sealed Bearing Disc, 32H *OK*
SPOKES	14G Stainless Steel *OK*
RIMS	WTB Lazer Disc Trail 29", 32H DW w/ Single Eyelet *OK *
TIRES	Continental Mountain King 29 X 2.2 *OK*
TUBES	CST Lite presta *OK*
BRAKE SET	Avid Juicy 7 Hydraulic Disc, 160R/185F mm rotor *OK*
BRAKE LEVERS	Avid Juicy 7 *OK*
HEADSET	V.P. A-42E 1 1/8" Press Fit Integrated, * NO (it needs 1 1/8" - 1 1/2")*
HANDLEBAR	Fuji Pro Riser 15mm double butted aluminum 31.8mm *OK*
STEM	Fuji Pro Ultalite Forged Alloy +/- 7 degree *OK*
TAPE/GRIP	Fuji Dual Density Kraton rubber *OK*
SADDLE	WTB Rocket V Comp SE *OK*
SEAT POST	Fuji Forged Al micro adjust, 350mm *if 31,6 OK*
SEAT CLAMP	Fuji Superlite Alloy, 34.9mm Laser Etched *OK*


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

LoAl said:


> 10,610 kg


 WOW thats a lot lighter than mine other than the fork (mines running 120mm) what else is different? What wheels set you running as mine arnt heavy?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

My naked wheels weigh less than 1500 g (tune hubs and crest rims), saddle full carbon is about 90 g, ctk handlebar is 145 g, brake set is one of the lightest around, pedals, crankset and stem are also light enough


----------



## gillsh (Jan 3, 2012)

*rear shock mounting*

Hi, 
what parts did you had to buy in order to mount the rear shock? where did you buy it from?

many thanks,


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

*What size frame??*

I'm ordering the fm036 frame and wondered how the fit is. I'm 6'2" with short legs (32" inseam) I was thinking the 19 would be good bet. Any thoughts on those who have bought this bike??


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

I am ordering the fm036 from Hung Fu. I'm 6'2" with only 32" legs. I was thinking the 19 would be ideal. Anyone with experience out there think any different??


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Regardin the shock, std fox 8mm fittings and std bolts from most lbs will suffice. 
Sizing im 5.10" and have the 17.5, and its just about on the upper limit, at 6.2" I would say 19 or 21??


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

gillsh said:


> Hi,
> what parts did you had to buy in order to mount the rear shock? where did you buy it from?
> 
> many thanks,


I bought two titanium M8 axes from bikehardest.de, one 31 mm length, another 36 mm. They are fixed with four M6/16 screws

Updating: new brand


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> If you go to www . Flyxii . Com its only $700 posted


I see several posts saying this site offers shipping included in $700 price. Hong Fu wants $700 and $95 shipping. I could even live with that but they need 15 day production and another 30 days shipping. 45 days is a long time.

Anyway, trying to get quote from the site above and all my emails get rejected. Has anyone had luck contacting this company? If so, how? Also, would be interested if shipping was included and how long it took


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I ordered mine through their website, it gives you an order number and you include that in a PayPal transaction, 10days later it appeared at home all shiney and nice. 

Been great tbh, apart from I ordered some replacement gear hangers replacements after the event, and they turned up wrong. :roll: 

The free shipping is a selling point definitely and the free headset is worth mentioning. Remember im in the UK so it would cost them more to ship here, and the conversion to £ is worse.


----------



## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> I run bigger rotor at the front as i feel 160mm doesn't stop you quick enough when you have the bigger wheels, but it will only house a 160mm at the rear


can you just use an adapter to fit a 180 rotor?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I haven't got a 180 to try, but ill post a pic of the clearance if it helps?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

not the best picture, but its hard to get an angle that you could see the clearence. i would say 180 might be ok, but it would be close.


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

*What Detailer hanger?*

I just bought full suspension 29er from flyxxi.com. I' short on time and would like to order derailer hanger before frame ships. I see they have 5 or so different hangers and I don't know what one I need. First, does one come with the bike? If it does, it slows down my need to rush. Second, how do I know what one to order? It must be based off of the deraileryour running?? I am converting a 29er hard tail that has SRAM x9 derailer. Not sure the size. If it helps it's on 2009 fuji Tahoe sl. Do you know if I have to change derailer?


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

vontress said:


> I just bought full suspension 29er from flyxxi.com. I' short on time and would like to order derailer hanger before frame ships. I see they have 5 or so different hangers and I don't know what one I need. First, does one come with the bike? If it does, it slows down my need to rush. Second, how do I know what one to order? It must be based off of the deraileryour running?? I am converting a 29er hard tail that has SRAM x9 derailer. Not sure the size. If it helps it's on 2009 fuji Tahoe sl. Do you know if I have to change derailer?


Should come with one (their road and HT frames do anyway).
Ask them to ship additionals.
I have seen others do this and I have asked for 2 spares with my FM056 HT.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

It does come with a hanger. I tried to order two others after but got sent the wrong ones. Easier to buy off eBay once you get the frame.


----------



## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

LoAl said:


> Some new photos after a ride


Pedazo de pepino. Enhorabuena. 
Congratulations!!!


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

LoAl said:


> Finally I lost a little time to find the bolts for the fixing shock on the frame. The pin is M8, only that the nut for M8 (13 mm) did not enter into the lower connection (12 mm). So, since I wanted something light, I ordered two internally threaded titanium pins M8: the upper one measuring 31 mm, 36 mm lower. With four titanium screws M6/16 I assembled everything.


Hi LoAI,

Where did you order the shock mounting pin & screw set? How much?

Thanks.


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

ang said:


> Hi LoAI,
> 
> Where did you order the shock mounting pin & screw set? How much?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi ang,

I ordered from www.bikehardest.de. I don't remember the price, I think around 20-25 Euros


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

wiro said:


> Pedazo de pepino. Enhorabuena.
> Congratulations!!!





killerbunny said:


> Looks great..
> :thumbsup:


Thanks a lot


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks, found it!

M8 x 36
FTC Titan M8 x 36 Dämpfer - Achse | bikehardest


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

:thumbsup:

pay attention that the photo tricks: the price does not include the screws!


----------



## dereknz (May 3, 2011)

carbonal.jason said:


> Normally it will come with one derailleur hanger, already assembled on the frame, and you can ask the seller to offer your some spare hangers, such as below photo (it's model M7 for reference). Spare 1 or 2pcs maybe also can be free when you purchase the frame.


carbonal.jason your photo of the rear derailleur hanger looks back to front compared to the picture on Hungfu website










My chinese LTK023 hardtail rear derailleur hanger looks similar to the FM036 hanger


----------



## vontress (Oct 14, 2008)

I pulled the trigger and bought the frame from Flyxii. They said 3-4 weeks and bike arrived in 9 days. Pretty remarkable. 

Now I have a wierd twist. My bike shop tells me that the front derailer is a very special set up that takes a Specialized specific derailer that they don't even know if they can get. I don't see anything on MTBR about that. Do you know what they might be talking about? Your help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*We used an XT e-typeand took off the bracket.*

We used a shimano XT e type. I know there is also a direct mount e type but you can buy the old fashioned one and remove the bracket.

Amazon.com: Shimano XT M780 E-type 3x10 Front Derailleur: Sports & Outdoors


----------



## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

subspd said:


> Well said the rear shock prices retail is just stupid high compared to a frameset. That said with the HT running about $400 if the FS can come in under $700 or so it would be worth it. But if your looking at over $1k with a rear shock their are other options like a spearfish.


Isn't this an aluminum frame?


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

vontress said:


> I pulled the trigger and bought the frame from Flyxii. They said 3-4 weeks and bike arrived in 9 days. Pretty remarkable.


Hi vontress,

Can you post a close-up of the shock mount holes(front & rear)?

Thanks!


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

ang said:


> Hi vontress,
> 
> Can you post a close-up of the shock mount holes(front & rear)?
> 
> Thanks!


Is this good enough?


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks vwsurfbum! I have a DT Swiss EX200 shock 165mm on hand...thinking about getting those shock eye bushing from CRC in order to mount it onto the FM036 frame which I have not placed an order yet.

Also, can you share the riding experience with this frame?


----------



## mtboz (Feb 10, 2010)

Does this bike looks like the Scott Spark 29 RC? The front triangle is different, but the rear looks identical.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

its almost identicle to the Scott, all the internal routings are te same, just the top tube is different. 
The dt Swiss shock will be great, im looking for the remote lock out version 
Get those bushings ordered and the frame!

mIne has take everything I've thrown at it, very light stiff and feels like more than 110 if travel at rear. 
I'm running 120mm up front and its perfect

Beyonce pics


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

vwsurfbum said:


> mIne has take everything I've thrown at it, very light stiff and feels like more than 110 if travel at rear.
> I'm running 120mm up front and its perfect


Glad to hear that 120mm up front is perfect. I plan to run a Marzocchi 29er 120mm, wont mind more travel up front for rocky trail.

However, may need more time to locate a suitable e-type front deraileur.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I was running it single ring with a guide but I put on a old lx direct mount I had laying about. 
Loads of choices on derailiure.


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

reydin said:


> Wow :yikes:, it might grow on me but right now, fugly comes to mind.


IDK if it looks that bad IMO, but I think it looks like an amalgamation of different designs. I can see the Trek (superfly, Rumblefish), Yeti, and Specialized camber in there. Seems the Chinese are taking American designs and amalgamating them together, but I guess its to be expected when you design them here and give them the build sheets to make them. The first pic is the specialize camber by the way...


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

It seems like it could be built up for under $3000 full XTR and fox shock front and rear. Still a good deal. I couldn't even get a Tallboy Carbon D kit for $3000 and those come with a no frills package and recon silver front fork, but a name you can trust. I'm curious on these frames on the durability and longevity on them. It is a good deal if you have the money to experiment with.


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Is anyone actually entertaining the idea that the subject of this thread looks anything like those four bikes? I mean, any more than they resemble each other, or any other bike? Why do these threads always have to wear those types of comments? 
"Amalgamation of designs" Is that a joke? Are we accusing Trek of an amalgamation of designs? Yeti perhaps? If not, why not?

Back to reality, can someone make a point by point account of what has bearings, what has bushes, etc.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

MagicCarpet said:


> can someone make a point by point account of what has bearings, what has bushes, etc.


Yes.

Main pivot, Sealed Bearing.
Rocker pivot, Sealed Bearings.
Seat stay pivots (lower). Bushes.
Seat stay pivots (upper) Sealed Bearings.
Shock mounts. Bushes.

does that help?


----------



## mtboz (Feb 10, 2010)

the lower seat stay pivot rotates less than the others, smart.


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks vwsurfbum.

There was a few people concerned about this throughout the thread. That seems normal. I recently put needle rollers in my shock eyes and it had an amazing effect. I wonder if there are any available the size of the seat stay bushes?

Also, I wonder if there is any variation in this between the different sellers, because there doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary there.

The finish on yours looks great in those pics.

I'd be finding it hard not to have a go at this with a 142x12 rear.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

MagicCarpet said:


> Is anyone actually entertaining the idea that the subject of this thread looks anything like those four bikes? I mean, any more than they resemble each other, or any other bike? Why do these threads always have to wear those types of comments?
> "Amalgamation of designs" Is that a joke? Are we accusing Trek of an amalgamation of designs? Yeti perhaps? If not, why not?


Why does no one entertain the idea that they didn't "copy"? I mean, they're Asians, like the ones that typically score better than a majority of the other class in math, science, etc. JKing.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Varaxis said:


> Why does no one entertain the idea that they didn't "copy"? I mean, they're Asians, like the ones that typically score better than a majority of the other class in math, science, etc. JKing.


Except that jokes are usually funny.


----------



## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> Why does no one entertain the idea that they didn't "copy"? I mean, they're Asians, like the ones that typically score better than a majority of the other class in math, science, etc. JKing.


Yeh, people misunderstand the nature of Chinese manufacturing. They are not just cheaper, they are better, quicker, and have more trained engineers. Depressing but true.

sent from one of my 4 gold leafed iphone 4s's


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Also that the factory that this is made in actually make carbon frames for the big manufacturers


----------



## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

MagicCarpet said:


> There was a few people concerned about this throughout the thread. That seems normal. I recently put needle rollers in my shock eyes and it had an amazing effect. I wonder if there are any available the size of the seat stay bushes?


Hi MagicCarpet,

What size of needle bearings do you order for the shock eyes? I wonder if DT Swiss shock eyes are of "standard" size as there are bushings already installed in the shock eyes.

Thanks.


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Ang

I have a Fox RP2 and I think it used 15mm needle bearings. Your seller should be able to tell you what your shock uses. I'd probably steer clear of the Enduro bearings as they are hit and miss regarding play and drove me mad. There are other brands out there. Hopefully of higher quality.


----------



## jompa (Jul 21, 2011)

*Complete FRM bike based on the FM036 frame*

Looks like FRM has started to take pre orders on complete bikes based on the FM036 frame, ranging from 4600 to 7300 EUR!

"Carbon fibre monocoque made in Asia. Painted and assembled in Italy"

Apparently I can't post links yet, so you will need to type......

w
w
w
.
frmbike
.
biz

:madman::madman::madman:


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow that's mental money!

FRM Bike Technology S.r.l.


----------



## crossxrider (Apr 7, 2007)

Why can't you just use a M8 Nyloc on the lower shock mount similar to the upper? Will it not fit?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

There's no room for a nyloc nut, but I used a m8 round headed Allen sex bolts.
Also just ordered some offset shock bushings for the rear shock.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Can you post a link to those fasteners for the lower shock mount*

I had to MacGiver something. But I would like to find something off the shelf.


----------



## Hiway (Apr 7, 2012)

bob13bob said:


> Yeh, people misunderstand the nature of Chinese manufacturing. They are not just cheaper, they are better, quicker, and have more trained engineers. Depressing but true.
> 
> sent from one of my 4 gold leafed iphone 4s's


I disagree, there is little in regards to innovation in the chinese culture due to their government.

Most of "made in China" labels usually have an American engineered design behind them. Cheaper labor and manufacturing is the main reason so much is done there.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

nbwallace said:


> I had to MacGiver something. But I would like to find something off the shelf.


OFFSET BUSHINGS.com


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Hi is it a 165mm shock i need?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes.


----------



## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

I am considering one of these frames. What seems to be the best company to deal with? It seems that several companies are selling what looks like the same frame some using a different part number. Many do not list a price. It would be nice to have a thread started where folks post up their builds of these frames and their reviews. Something without all the speculation and anti or pro Chinese rhetoric.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Try FLYXI $700 posted


----------



## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

vwsurfbum said:


> Try FLYXI $700 posted


Thank you.

Does anybody know the aproximate standover height of the large (19" I think)? Where the little seat tube brace meets the toptube?

Thanks


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I can measure my 17.5 if that helps?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Just measured mine, 31" but remember mine a 17" frame and running 120mm forks


----------



## thehotrodpig (Jun 14, 2010)

vwsurfbum said:


> Just measured mine, 31" but remember mine a 17" frame and running 120mm forks


Thank you. Are you pretty happy with the frame?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Love it!


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Hi whats the mud room like on the rear?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Very good and I run 2.4's


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Cool cheers


----------



## eibbed (May 24, 2011)

I was thinking of buying one of these frames and making up a really decent spec bike instead of buying a carbon stumpjumper fsr. I have no real bike building experience and I was wondering if some one could post all of the components needed to build a complete bike once I'd secured a frame. The stumpy is nearly 9k dollars here in my neck of the woods so this looks like a do-able option.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Have you got a doner bike that you could Use? Or doing it from fresh?


----------



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Handle bar
Grips
Shifters
Brake lever
Stem
Stem spacers
Headset
Cables brake and shifter
Wheels (hubs, rims, spokes)
Tires
Tubes or tubeless setup
Disc rotors
Disc brakes
Bottom bracket
Crankset
Chain
Cassette
Seat post
Seat post collar
Saddle


----------



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Derailleurs
Chainstay protector 
Handlebar end caps
Chain rings

Also

Carbon grip paste
Torque wrench
Crown race setter tool

You may need a star nut and cap too.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

You'll also need a special tool to setup the cassette on the rear hub.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Did i get it all? I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Bearing press and bb30 installation cups
Steer tube holder/cutter
Hack saw


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

cable housings
fork, unless you get a carbon one from the frame supplier.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Its not a bb30 frame.
Why would you put carbon forks on a full suss frame?


----------



## donjc451 (Oct 18, 2005)

connolm said:


> Derailleurs
> Chainstay protector
> Handlebar end caps
> Chain rings
> ...


This is where the math get's fuzzy for me. Unless you already have parts you want to swap over it doesn't seem to make sense to buy one of these Chinese frames, FS or HT. A good spec of parts (XT or XO) all in with Fork and Shock is going to cost about $4,000, maybe less if you can find some deals add in the frame and you're at $4,750. A Scott Spark 10 is $5,000 with a pretty good spec. For an extra $250 you get an assembled bike with a warranty and shop to stand behind anything else that may go wrong. It's a different story if you're swapping parts or can get a super deal on a build kit but otherwise it doesn't seem like a great deal.


----------



## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

donjc451 said:


> This is where the math get's fuzzy for me. Unless you already have parts you want to swap over it doesn't seem to make sense to buy one of these Chinese frames, FS or HT. A good spec of parts (XT or XO) all in with Fork and Shock is going to cost about $4,000, maybe less if you can find some deals add in the frame and you're at $4,750. A Scott Spark 10 is $5,000 with a pretty good spec. For an extra $250 you get an assembled bike with a warranty and shop to stand behind anything else that may go wrong. It's a different story if you're swapping parts or can get a super deal on a build kit but otherwise it doesn't seem like a great deal.


Not sure where you are buying your parts. I can get a XT group with brakes, all day on ebay or from online sources like BikerBob for $800 or less. You can also get forks for $500 on ebay,amazon, anywhere. Wheels can be had for $300. Plus you get to spec the whole bike yourself. These bike can be built for way less and it is your bike, your spec. Plus some people just get their rocks off building bikes.


----------



## donjc451 (Oct 18, 2005)

Adim_X said:


> Not sure where you are buying your parts. I can get a XT group with brakes, all day on ebay or from online sources like BikerBob for $800 or less. You can also get forks for $500 on ebay,amazon, anywhere. Wheels can be had for $300. Plus you get to spec the whole bike yourself. These bike can be built for way less and it is your bike, your spec. Plus some people just get their rocks off building bikes.


I'm totally down with wanting to build a bike yourself and getting it exactly how you want. The point of my post however is if your solely doing this to get a great deal you may want to think twice. Look at at what a comparably spec'd Scott will cost you versus going Chinese and building it up from scratch. Here is a spec that might be considered comparable to a spark 9 (XT vs XO/X9 mix), these are good internet prices, yes if you went to 5 different shops online and e-bay you may be able to get better prices but most folks don't want to deal with that. This build would cost you $4,300 before any shipping costs, A Spark 9 goes for $4,200 and certainly has some cheaper parts like an aluminum stem and seatpost but it's a decent build. Not to be forgotten if the frame goes kablooey on your first ride your not SOL.

Fork	Float RLC $760 
Brakes	XT $320 
Cassette	XT 11-34 $80 
Chain	XT $50 
Crankset	XT $320 
F Derail	XT $55 
R Deral	XT $99 
Grips	ESI $8 
Handlebar	EC-70 $110 
Headset	FSA $69 
Pedals	C $110 
Saddle	WTB $125 
Seatpost	EC70 $140 
Shifters	XT $160 
Stem	EA90 $75 
Tires	Rac Ralphs $120 
Wheels	Stans $600 
Rear ShockFox RP3 $350 
Frame $750

BTW, I'm not pushing Scott or any other big brand. I thought long and hard about buying Chinese and building it up which is why I have all these quotes handy but at the end of the day it didn't seem worth it to me. Ended up getting Scalpel 29er which I love and is a whole different topic.


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

Great to get your perspective but I agree with Admin_X, you can get a lot more for $4,000 off Ebay and other's online than the build you have suggested and my assumption from reading these forums is that most who buy these frames do enjoy shopping around for the best deals. Not sure what your referring to SOL re the frame. Haven't heard of any frames exploading and they come with 2 yr factory warranty. I've purchased a hardtail from Hongfu and after 6 months no problems with the frame. Granted a dually has more parts that can fail but so far I have experienced nothing to suggest that their frames are any less trail worthy than brand names (ie Scott) or that they won't honour their warranty if there is a problem. By the way, how do you find the Scalpel 29er?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

The reason I bought it was because I snapped any Garry fisher and had all the parts. 
Buying all fresh parts will be an expensive way of doing it. 
Buy a second hand doner bike and swap all the stuff.


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## donjc451 (Oct 18, 2005)

Beij said:


> Great to get your perspective but I agree with Admin_X, you can get a lot more for $4,000 off Ebay and other's online than the build you have suggested and my assumption from reading these forums is that most who buy these frames do enjoy shopping around for the best deals. Not sure what your referring to SOL re the frame. Haven't heard of any frames exploading and they come with 2 yr factory warranty. I've purchased a hardtail from Hongfu and after 6 months no problems with the frame. Granted a dually has more parts that can fail but so far I have experienced nothing to suggest that their frames are any less trail worthy than brand names (ie Scott) or that they won't honour their warranty if there is a problem. By the way, how do you find the Scalpel 29er?


Didn't know Hongfu came with a warranty so my bad, though it will certainly be easier to deal with an LBS than an internet retailer if something goes wrong. I'm not implying that the quality is any worse or better either, they may even be made in the same factory since virtually all Carbon MTB frames are made in China these days. Bike frames do break though and how much hassle you want to deal with if it happens is something to consider in the equation when buying from an e-tailer based in China.

As for the Scalpel I think it's awesome. It is absolutely the best climbing FS bike I've ever ridden if it has a negative I'd say it has mediocre small bump compliance. I've written a more thorough review on the Cannondale Forum.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

donjc451 said:


> though it will certainly be easier to deal with an LBS than an internet retailer if something goes wrong. How do you know this?
> 
> since virtually all Carbon MTB frames are made in China these days. Are you sure?


sources?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

bt said:


> sources?


check the labels when you next go to a lbs


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

vwsurfbum said:


> check the labels when you next go to a lbs


try again...



> Virtually all carbon fiber bicycle component manufacturing for various bike brands occurs in China* and Taiwan*


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

So where do you think Taiwan is? 
Taiwan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Taiwan also is a member of the International Olympic Committee and sends its own team to the Olympic Games.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

bt said:


> Taiwan also is a member of the International Olympic Committee and sends its own team to the Olympic Games.


Under the Chinese Taipei Olympic flag as a territory of the Republic of China.









:skep:


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Some of the factories are also in Hong Kong (again part of China though).


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

TR said:


> Some of the factories are also in Hong Kong (again part of China though).


but... but... they have their own olympic team.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

meltingfeather said:


> but... but... they have their own olympic team.


Oh yeah.
My mistake.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

any further updates from anyone who's put one of these together?


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## henry9419 (Nov 18, 2010)

*any one try one of these?*

has anyone tried one of these? im thinking of saving for one of these possibly but id like to know how it will hold up first
FLYXI 29ER dualie MTB Frame


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

henry9419 said:


> has anyone tried one of these? im thinking of saving for one of these possibly but id like to know how it will hold up first
> FLYXI 29ER dualie MTB Frame


Same frame as all of the ones posted here except from a different supplier.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

*Some clarification on Trigon CF 29er frame...*










This thing looks a bit different than the Hong Fu and FlyXi... Looks like a full FSR rear end to me, yeah?

Here are some linkyz:
Has geo: [ TRIGON ]
Claims "4-linkage": :::: Welcome to TRIGON Bicycles ::::

I'm a 29er n00b. But are those angles looking a bit steep or is it just me and my 26er bias?


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

Trigon's 29er is far more interesting that Flyxii & co.
would like to know the price.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Your right its a different frame, but very similar. The rear brake is different and top tube is quite different


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

vwsurfbum, all of them are similar.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Well yes in that they are all bike frames lol


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

4 1/2" of rear travel and 490mm front axel to crown. I'd like to know what's going on there.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

MagicCarpet, maybe it's misprint or for small size.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

or they have used the same geo drawing from their carbon hardtail 29er here

EDIT:
then again maybe they haven't given one has linkages drawn and the other doesn't, sorry


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

So, I got a response from someone named Stella from Trigon. That frame (SQC01) is $1305, + $396 UPS shipping. No clarification if it comes w/ a rear shock.
At that price, I'd be looking at a Titus El Guapo or even a Kona Satori...yeah, it's not carbon but whatev. Email below:

We don't have any distributor in US and we can sell the SQC01 frame to you directly.
The price for the frame is US$1305.
The delivery fee via UPS express is US$396

Please let us know if you have any question,

Best Regards,

Stella Chen
Conviva Marketing Co., Ltd
Team Leader, Sales Dept.
11F.-9, No.20, Dalong Rd., West Dist.,
Taichung City 403, Taiwan
Tel:886-4-23209798#14
Fax:886-4-23208848
[ TRIGON ]
Welcome to Intrepid Bicycles

Edit: I mean, as a carbon frame, it's still a deal (kinda). Looking at Stella sig, I think they might be sourcing it from the mainland somewhere... Let's find out where and if there's a better price, yeah?


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

henry9419 said:


> has anyone tried one of these? im thinking of saving for one of these possibly but id like to know how it will hold up first
> FLYXI 29ER dualie MTB Frame


My experience with Flyxii on their FR211 is they appear to be the "left over" or "second" or "discarded" distributor for Dengfu. Several who has taken delivery of the FR211 and matching fork have had small cosmetic issues. Mine had a chip in the seat tube collar area and a uneven finish carbon layer at the seat tube collar. Another recent poster had to sand down his steer tube to install the headset.

You can save a little cash with Flyxii and if you can deal with cosmetic issues then I recommend them. If you want a closer to perfect product I would pay the premium for Dengfu.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I disagree with this, maybe with the HT not with the Full suspension models.


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

I think that 1800$ is for frame w/o shock. it's rather expensive. SC TB is more attractive in that case.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

BUMP!! Updates on built bikes? Ride and reports? Anyone?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

What would you like to know? 
I'm racing mine tomorrow, weighed it during the week, with Joplin and 120mm forks. 
No wheels it was 9kg.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> What would you like to know?
> I'm racing mine tomorrow, weighed it during the week, with Joplin and 120mm forks.
> No wheels it was 9kg.


Have you got the suspension dialed nicely? Pedal vs bump compliance? Any issues with the rear suspension pivot or anything else?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I got it dialled after I got the fox shock, took a few rides to get the pressure right. 
Pivots are ace and they get used in all weather and conditions.


----------



## sonic_W (Aug 15, 2008)

Pau11y said:


> So, I got a response from someone named Stella from Trigon. That frame (SQC01) is $1305, + $396 UPS shipping. No clarification if it comes w/ a rear shock.
> At that price, I'd be looking at a Titus El Guapo or even a Kona Satori...yeah, it's not carbon but whatev. Email below:
> 
> We don't have any distributor in US and we can sell the SQC01 frame to you directly.
> ...


Trigon also seems to have a Carbon triangle/alloy rear model and an all alloy model...it seems like those will be more reasonably priced.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> I got it dialled after I got the fox shock, took a few rides to get the pressure right.
> Pivots are ace and they get used in all weather and conditions.


Good to hear.

Anyone else got one built up? Still a little concerned about the rear pivot. Ive tried reading through this thread but still cant find definitive detail of what the issue is?

Am i right in saying that the pivot consists solely of a whole thats been formed in the frame and a bolt that acts as the pivot through it? that would mean its straight up metal-on-carbon yeah?

Also, what bottom bracket does this thing take?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Nope its a sealed bearing pivot. 

Std BB not that BB30 nonsense


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> Nope its a sealed bearing pivot.
> 
> Std BB not that BB30 nonsense


Haha, i didnt think there such thing as standard BB anymore? Does that mean external threaded type, bb92, bb38 etc?

Sorry for all questions, I'm planning a new build based around one of these frames, just want to make sure I know what I need prior to purchasing!


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Awesome! I can run my xt cranks then

Cheers


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Yep std external type?


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

AUTUORI 874 CARBON 29R FULL SUSPENSION | Edge Design. - not sure if this is same frame but looks very similar, $1800 hope that includes shock!


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

looks like it. Shock included but that's a $1100 more for a bit of paint and a shock????
Also it says BB30 and 1.5" headtube. Easily changed I guess, mine was tappered and std threaded BB


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## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

i think headtube is tapered in real.


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## kraiza (May 15, 2007)

*Better ways*

I don't see the economics on this either. There are at least 2 better ways which will save you time, money & hassles.

1- Buy a mint used bike. There are 83 ads here alone. Many are mint & <$2500, like mine..

Niner Jet 9 large - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

or

2- Buy a used "name brand" frame for $1000approx. & start there.

Either way, a year from now you have a bike that can be sold for alot more than one of these & you will probably spend less & not have to "re-engineer" the bike.:madman:


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

You may be right but there is a certain emotional appeal to building these frames up from scratch. I can't comment on these duallies but I have built up 3 Chinese carbon hardtails and the experience has been no less difficult than building up a brand name hardtail. In any case I suspect some will enjoy the re-engineering and the reviews so far have been very positive for built up frames.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

kraiza said:


> I don't see the economics on this either. There are at least 2 better ways which will save you time, money & hassles.
> 
> 1- Buy a mint used bike. There are 83 ads here alone. Many are mint & <$2500, like mine..
> 
> ...


A lot of the appeal here is a carbon full suspension bike frame for around $1000. You are talking apples and oranges here by comparing you Jet 9 to the builds listed here. If we are talking $1000 full suspension frames sure there are plenty of options and you can get some near mint frames for that but 99% of them are going to be aluminum. Personally any 1K carbon frames I have seen are pretty whaled on .

As far as arguing resale generally for what you save resale is a mute point. If you purchase a Tallboy C or Niner Rdo for lets say $2500 new, ride it for a year and sell it a year later you'd prob be lucky if you got $1500 out of it. Either way you would be looking at a $1000 loss which I believe that these frames will have more than a value of zero after a year. So why a "name brand" frame may have better resale you are still losing more money.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

kraiza said:


> I don't see the economics on this either. There are at least 2 better ways which will save you time, money & hassles.
> 
> 1- Buy a mint used bike. There are 83 ads here alone. Many are mint & <$2500, like mine..
> 
> ...


No offense but I would never buy a new Jet9 let alone a used one.
And you must have had a lot better result from selling used bikes than I have.


----------



## sonic_W (Aug 15, 2008)

if a frame depreciates 50% i'd rather lose $150-200 than $500-1000. i'm sure you can still sell a used chinese carbon frame in good condition locally for >$150. It's almost impulse buy territory.


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

sonic_W said:


> if a frame depreciates 50% i'd rather lose $150-200 than $500-1000. i'm sure you can still sell a used chinese carbon frame in good condition locally for >$150. It's almost impulse buy territory.


I'm kind of lost on your post here...Are you saying you only buy $300-400 frames? I would guess if someone was to sell their fs chinese carbon they would be able to get at least $400-600 for.

Personally I buy bikes to ride and don't worry about resale. I think one of the advantage of these chinese frames are you can ride it for a season or two and throw it out and it still won't lose as much as riding name brand bikes and selling them.


----------



## JoeKing (Jun 26, 2006)

*Fruit salad*



finny1999 said:


> A lot of the appeal here is a carbon full suspension bike frame for around $1000. You are talking apples and oranges here by comparing you Jet 9 to the builds listed here. If we are talking $1000 full suspension frames sure there are plenty of options and you can get some near mint frames for that but 99% of them are going to be aluminum. Personally any 1K carbon frames I have seen are pretty whaled on .
> 
> As far as arguing resale generally for what you save resale is a mute point. If you purchase a Tallboy C or Niner Rdo for lets say $2500 new, ride it for a year and sell it a year later you'd prob be lucky if you got $1500 out of it. Either way you would be looking at a $1000 loss which I believe that these frames will have more than a value of zero after a year. So why a "name brand" frame may have better resale you are still losing more money.


I believe the discussion is about $2500 FS bikes. Sure we can debate the differences between aluminum & CF but from a $ to $ perspective the comparison is valid. Can you tell the difference in performance between 2 comparably equipped bikes..1 carbon & the other aluminum?

I think bringing in $ 2500 Tallboys & RDOs isn't appropriate here. No one (in their right mind) would be choosing between a Chineese carbon & a new Tallboy to begin with. The more appropriate comparison would be...What would you rather start a build with..a new Chinesse or a 1 yr. old Tallboy if they both cost the same?

Not to get all geo-political..BUT...don't you have a problem knowing these frames are being sold out the back door of companies basically "stealing" American co's frame designs? People comment.."it looks like a cross between a ____ & a ____" Duh, I wonder why..perhaps the Chineese co. thats making it also makes it for_____ & is tweaking the mold to make their own "original" (?) design. Not cool, especially for the American co. that spent the time & money developing the "real" frame & isn't profitting from their efforts.

What about technical support.....what do you think "Jennie" knows about rake & trail or carbon lay-ups? Do you think you really have a 2-year warranty from a company you can't find on a map & has only a secretary that speaks english? Yeah right.


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

JoeKing said:


> I believe the discussion is about $2500 FS bikes. Sure we can debate the differences between aluminum & CF but from a $ to $ perspective the comparison is valid. Can you tell the difference in performance between 2 comparably equipped bikes..1 carbon & the other aluminum?


I thought this thread was about chinese carbon full suspension frames. Sure there are plenty of $1000 frames and $2500 bikes available and there are more than enough threads about them.



JoeKing said:


> I think bringing in $ 2500 Tallboys & RDOs isn't appropriate here. No one (in their right mind) would be choosing between a Chineese carbon & a new Tallboy to begin with. The more appropriate comparison would be...What would you rather start a build with..a new Chinesse or a 1 yr. old Tallboy if they both cost the same?


I think this is appropriate. Again we are talking about carbon full suspension bikes here. When I was shopping for a frame I did make a decision between these chinese carbon frames and the tallboy. Luckily I caught a good price on a new tallboy and had the money to spend on it so that's what I purchased. Considering what the few used tallboy i saw sell for 1k looking pretty used and abused I think i would gamble on the new chinese frame...



JoeKing said:


> Not to get all geo-political..BUT...don't you have a problem knowing these frames are being sold out the back door of companies basically "stealing" American co's frame designs? People comment.."it looks like a cross between a ____ & a ____" Duh, I wonder why..perhaps the Chineese co. thats making it also makes it for_____ & is tweaking the mold to make their own "original" (?) design. Not cool, especially for the American co. that spent the time & money developing the "real" frame & isn't profitting from their efforts.
> 
> What about technical support.....what do you think "Jennie" knows about rake & trail or carbon lay-ups? Do you think you really have a 2-year warranty from a company you can't find on a map & has only a secretary that speaks english? Yeah right.


Not about to get into the whole geo political debate. Personally I can appreciate that some of us are on budgets and can't afford the newest and greatest and have to look at other options. To me it comes down to most of these frames are coming from the same place and same quality and your paying a fraction of the cost because it doesn't have a big name sticker on it. I think a good majority of us have gotten poor customer service from a big name manufacturer, retailer or lbs. I wouldn't expect much for customer service from chinese carbon goods but i'm also not paying for it.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JoeKing said:


> Not to get all geo-political..BUT...don't you have a problem knowing these frames are being sold out the back door of companies basically "stealing" American co's frame designs? People comment.."it looks like a cross between a ____ & a ____" Duh, I wonder why..perhaps the Chineese co. thats making it also makes it for_____ & is tweaking the mold to make their own "original" (?) design. Not cool, especially for the American co. that spent the time & money developing the "real" frame & isn't profitting from their efforts.
> 
> What about technical support.....what do you think "Jennie" knows about rake & trail or carbon lay-ups? Do you think you really have a 2-year warranty from a company you can't find on a map & has only a secretary that speaks english? Yeah right.


Nice post with a heap of nonsense about someting you have no real idea on.
If this is what you really think is happening then you need to go away, read up and then come back and post when you actually have a clue.

Oh and awesome 1st post.


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## JoeKing (Jun 26, 2006)

TR said:


> Nice post with a heap of nonsense about someting you have no real idea on.
> If this is what you really think is happening then you need to go away, read up and then come back and post when you actually have a clue.
> 
> Oh and awesome 1st post.


OK, then give me a clue. Since you obviously are aware of the goings on in factories on the other side of the world. Where did you "read up" about these frames? The websites I saw didn't describe their R&D. Sure they build ALOT of frames, Hersheys makes ALOT of chocolate BFD, but the design is what costs.

Who designed the frames? What races have they won?

How is buying one of these frames benefiting any American..or doesn't it matter..you still have a job. Everyone else can go away, right?

Glad you liked my 1st post..love to impress the shut-ins.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

JoeKing said:


> OK, then give me a clue. Since you obviously are aware of the goings on in factories on the other side of the world. Where did you "read up" about these frames? The websites I saw didn't describe their R&D. Sure they build ALOT of frames, Hersheys makes ALOT of chocolate BFD, but the design is what costs.
> 
> Who designed the frames? What races have they won?
> 
> ...


From my point of view, as someone from Australia, a similar carbon frame (santa cruz, niner etc) would cost between $3300-3900 (yep, prices are a lot higher here). I can buy 4 of these frames and still come out on top. even if a frame only lasts me a year of XC riding, i could still get more value out of it than a santa cruz or niner.

im not bagging the big named guys, i totally appreciate the effort that goes into research and testing frames. but i have a tight budget ,and a wife that doesnt care about brand loyalty when there is a $3000 difference in price. thats our entire savings for holidays for a year, and i'll be pretty hard pressed to convince ger that this year we arent having a holiday because i want a niner frame intead of one of these.

i guess what im saying is in a utopian world we would all have the cash to spend on bikes like SC, Niner, Scott etc, but we just dont. and if i want to compete at local elite level against sponsored guys that do have these big name bikes, i have to cut corners where i can!


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

JoeKing, my impression from your post is that you are implying people who buys these frames are not supporting the people who do the r&d, I assume if we bought a name brand you would be happy. I've bought three of the Chinese carbon hardtail frames and will probably get a dually. I don't know about supporting American jobs as I also live in Australia. But in addition to the $20,000+ I have spent at my lbs on name brand bikes over the years (Santa Cruz Blur xc, Pivot Mach 4, Voodoo Sobo, Trek Road bike, multiple rebuilds etc) I will keep going back to them to fix my re-engineering mistakes on these carbon frames. Is that good enough? P.s. I drive a crappy $700 car to pay for my passion, now I feel guilty for not supporting the local car industry.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

JoeKing said:


> OK, then give me a clue. Since you obviously are aware of the goings on in factories on the other side of the world. Where did you "read up" about these frames? The websites I saw didn't describe their R&D. Sure they build ALOT of frames, Hersheys makes ALOT of chocolate BFD, but the design is what costs.
> 
> Who designed the frames? What races have they won?
> 
> ...


So basically you are saying that if it aint made in the Good Ol' USA it aint worth having.
Luckily for me I am not an American and dont share this common insular American mindset.
The Chinese are the largest suppliers of bicycles and Carbon Fiber products in the world.
Where did you "READ UP" that Jenny DOESN'T understand carbon fiber lay up and head angles.
Where on the internet did you "READ UP" that she DOES NOT do R&D and DOES NOT know about layup and design.
Where did you "READ UP" that the cooperative of companies that produce these frames DID NOT research, develop, design and create these frames?


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Joe tried to hit on Jenny and was shut down, apparently.


----------



## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

TR said:


> So basically you are saying that if it aint made in the Good Ol' USA it aint worth having.
> Luckily for me I am not an American and dont share this common insular American mindset.
> The Chinese are the largest suppliers of bicycles and Carbon Fiber products in the world.
> Where did you "READ UP" that Jenny DOESN'T understand carbon fiber lay up and head angles.
> ...


Not all Americans share that mindset. Some of us understand economics and globalization. Please try not to stereotype the masses for the words of the few.


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Agree it is not ALL Americans.
But it does seem common.


----------



## kimare (Oct 5, 2011)

JoeKing said:


> Who designed the frames? What races have they won?
> 
> How is buying one of these frames benefiting any American..or doesn't it matter..you still have a job. Everyone else can go away, right?


Who designed these frames? I guess the same who designed the frames which are sold in thousands by in-house brands sportswarehouses.

What races they have won? According to the partner of a former WC silver winner in XC, took Victor Koretzky gold in the junior men's cross country race of the 2011 UCI Mountain bike World Championships on noname chinese carbon hardtail.

Why does these Americans compaies supports chinese workers instead of supporting american workers. Their bosses still have a job. Everyone else can go away, right?


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

how much does flyxii charge for shipping to the US? and how much does the FLX-FR-210 weigh?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Gabe3 said:


> how much does flyxii charge for shipping to the US? and how much does the FLX-FR-210 weigh?


I believe there is a picture of a large on scales in this thread, I think it came in at 2056g. That's without the shock and hardware. And I think shipping is free, I've sent an email to flyxii about shipping.

What finish does everyone think is best for showing up frame damage in the future? Clear or matte, and which weave 3k, 12k or UD?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Flyxii postage is free, both times on the HT and the full suss. I did have to pay a minimal charge to customs on the HT though.

Beyonce pics


----------



## Elacrosse7 (May 10, 2011)

TR said:


> Agree it is not ALL Americans.
> But it does seem common.


After living abroad for three years and traveling to more than 40 countries, I have seen a coo on theme - ignorance in the literal sense. Most other cultures are so homogeneous that they do not have the opportunity to see, learn, understand, and then value the perspective of others. This isn't isolated to Americans like myself as I believe that mindset is more prevalent in other cultures. By the way, both Aus and NZ have been impacted more than the US from Chines economics around currency influences on the import and export markets.

With that said, these frames are intriguing and a great value. The economics behind them do not necessarily make them a great long term value as the price advantage is not sustainable for the long term (separate discussion).

As for the bike and a review, it appears that you should just read the reviews of the Scott Spark or the Scott bike posted earlier in the thread.

They appear to be the exact same bike.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Elacrosse7 said:


> With that said, these frames are intriguing and a great value. The economics behind them do not necessarily make them a great long term value as the price advantage is not sustainable for the long term (separate discussion).


Interesting, I would think cutting out the brand and dealer would provide significant cost savings and allow price to remain low. Do you think others will enter this space and force brand and service to provide advantage?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

I tried sending these questions to flyxii, but i think the language barrier might be a bit of an issue as the reply was hard to understand. hoping someone can answer on here - 

-does the FLX-FR-210 frame come with a derailleur hanger?
-which model derailleur hanger does the FLX-FR-210 use, as i would like to get 2 spare ones?
-which headset does the frame come with, and does the frame ship with the headset installed?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Headset and hanger comes with the frame.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Its a neco headset and it just fits together, cups are already installed


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

So, I had an email from Flyxii confirming that they can do a matte 3k finish, and that the bottom bracket is a bb30 type!

Anyone else got a bb30 from flyxii? I see that hongfu do this as an option, but the frame on the flyxii site looks like a threaded type


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Mine from flyxii was threaded, but my HT came through as BB30 but was stated as threaded, so just bought a FSA adapter.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Hmmm. Maybe I should just order it and wait to order the cranks when it gets here!!


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Yep :lol:


----------



## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

how tall are you guys and what size frames are you getting?

i'm 6" and trying to determine what size i need


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

5'10" I went for the 17.5"


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Anyone preferred for looking at an XL with a 21 inch frame?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> Anyone preferred for looking at an XL with a 21 inch frame?


I'm 180cm and went 19" frame. Its closer to my current ride geometry, - giant anthem -just a little longer top tube


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Hi i have 19" matt on order i have a fox rp23 for it can anyone tell me what size mount kit & the size of the bolts i need to fit it please.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

22mm bushes and 8m bolts, just can't remember the lengths I think 35mm?


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*The answer is in my previous post*



the-milkybar-kid said:


> Hi i have 19" matt on order i have a fox rp23 for it can anyone tell me what size mount kit & the size of the bolts i need to fit it please.


http://forums.mtbr.com/8835610-post98.html

I ended up making a brass part to act as a nut on one of the mounts.

http://forums.mtbr.com/8926369-post140.html


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Hi i have 19" matt on order i have a fox rp23 for it can anyone tell me what size mount kit & the size of the bolts i need to fit it please.


From info in this forum from previous posts, ive ordered;

-1 of these FTC Titan M8 x 36 Dämpfer - Achse | bikehardest
-1 of these FTC Titan M8 x 31 Dämpfer - Achse | 299-Kappen - Hülsen | 16-silber | 1-Titan & Al | bikehardest
- and 4 of these Titan Schraube M6 x 10 Linsenkopf Iso 7380 Grade 5 | 366-M6 | 43-ISO 7380 Linse | 17-Ti-Schrauben | 16-silber | 1-Titan & Al | bikehardest

and the 22mm wide x 8mm diam bushing spacers for your shock


----------



## Barteos (Aug 9, 2007)

*the real cost of ownership...*

There was a time when I was very tempted with Chinese frames but then I've done the math and I've realised that they turn out to be quite an expensive option. Some other problems aside, considering the resalable(?) *"*value*"*, the moment you buy it, you effectively throw away most of your money.

I'm *NOT* in any way criticising anyone's decisions as I used to find the Chinese carbon offering very tempting myself.
I'm just wondering how many people really have an idea of how much it's going to cost them in a longer run.


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

Barteos said:


> There was a time when I was very tempted with Chinese frames but then I've done the math and I've realised that they turn out to be quite an expensive option. Some other problems aside, considering the resalable(?) *"*value*"*, the moment you buy it, you effectively throw away most of your money.
> 
> I'm *NOT* in any way criticising anyone's decisions as I used to find the Chinese carbon offering very tempting myself.
> I'm just wondering how many people really have an idea of how much it's going to cost them in a longer run.


Can you give an example of why this is not cost effective? My math isn't that good but a $700 frame + max $400 for shock and hardware is still far less than current prices for name brand 29er carbon duallies. Resale on any bike will represent a huge loss on your initial purchase so you may actuall lose less if you have to sell a Chinese frame, even if you part out and sell the components individually?


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

Barteos said:


> There was a time when I was very tempted with Chinese frames but then I've done the math and I've realised that they turn out to be quite an expensive option. Some other problems aside, considering the resalable(?) *"*value*"*, the moment you buy it, you effectively throw away most of your money.
> 
> I'm *NOT* in any way criticising anyone's decisions as I used to find the Chinese carbon offering very tempting myself.
> I'm just wondering how many people really have an idea of how much it's going to cost them in a longer run.


people have already done the math on chinese frames, thats why they are buying them over a name brand, lol. I've seen the 26" chinese used frame sell for $300, $400 is what it cost new, so $100 loss is not bad at all. my 21# chinese carbon 29 HT cost me $1900 total, a name brand would cost $3000+. I don't see how thats "an expensive option".


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Over here a frame on its own it £2500+ 
My complete build is well under that.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*Well you could buy a superfly 100*



Barteos said:


> There was a time when I was very tempted with Chinese frames but then I've done the math and I've realised that they turn out to be quite an expensive option. Some other problems aside, considering the resalable(?) *"*value*"*, the moment you buy it, you effectively throw away most of your money.


I understand this argument. But try reselling a Trek/Gary Fisher Collection bike. No frame warrantee. I broke my first Paragon, and while I love the bike, I bet I couldn't sell it for that much more than a no name carbon frame.


----------



## Barteos (Aug 9, 2007)

Fair enough guys. 
I remain sceptical though and I guess only time will tell what wider effect those "cheap" frames will have on our pockets in a longer run. (even of those who don't own or going to buy one).


----------



## shem (Sep 20, 2009)

So, to jump to the ned of this thread, is it any good? Ive been toying with these for a while


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

shem said:


> So, to jump to the ned of this thread, is it any good? Ive been toying with these for a while


yes


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> yes


I've already ordered mine so too late to change now, but what's impressions on rear stiffness? Is a 10mm thru axle needed for XC stuff?


----------



## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

What carbon weave did you go Tim?
I'm all set to order but can't make up my mind on 12k Matte, UD Matt or UD gloss


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Well I don't notice any rear flex in the frame but a slight flex in the wheels when hitting some jumps along the xc routes.
Mine is a 3k gloss finish BTW


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

bowseruni said:


> What carbon weave did you go Tim?
> I'm all set to order but can't make up my mind on 12k Matte, UD Matt or UD gloss


I actually went matte 3k finish.

I have a theory (could be wrong!) that matte 3k hides any floors better, plus it looks stealthy


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Hi is this the front mech i need Shimano XTR M985 E2-type 2x10 Front Mech | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Hi is this the front mech i need Shimano XTR M985 E2-type 2x10 Front Mech | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


That's the one


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Cheers


----------



## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

My chiner


----------



## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

Step by step


----------



## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)




----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

wiro said:


> My chiner
> View attachment 707777


Ha, I also call my LTK-023 my "chiner"


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

wiro said:


> View attachment 707835
> View attachment 707836
> View attachment 707837


What size frame is that? 
Fork travel?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

wiro said:


> My chiner
> View attachment 707777


Sorry, I was referring to your frame Wiro.

What's the frame size/suspension travel


----------



## wiro (Jul 18, 2006)

Timbo83 said:


> Sorry, I was referring to your frame Wiro.
> 
> What's the frame size/suspension travel


Hi Timbo
Is the 17'5" frame size. 
100mm rear travel. 165mm rear shock.

Sorry my English.


----------



## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

orange lamborghini metalic color on frame will be awesome! or white :MRGREEN:

100g more heavy for stilish


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

They are $700 so mine cost me £440 then the price of the shock on top.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

i need one that has the longest ETT. 

suggestions on where to buy or are they all selling the same frame?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

bt said:


> i need one that has the longest ETT.
> 
> suggestions on where to buy or are they all selling the same frame?


All the same frame, same geometry at least.

See flyxii link here - http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=336&id=601 - for geometry. Top tube is fairly long, especially with the seat tube angle being so raked


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Timbo83 said:


> All the same frame, same geometry at least.
> 
> See flyxii link here - FLYXI - for geometry. Top tube is fairly long, especially with the seat tube angle being so raked


cool thx.

I saw that this one is sold as a 21.5" frame so I thought it might have a longer ett but I couldn't find a geo chart on it. If it's the same frame then it's mute point.

29ER FULL SUSPENSION


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

bt said:


> cool thx.
> 
> I saw that this one is sold as a 21.5" frame so I thought it might have a longer ett but I couldn't find a geo chart on it. If it's the same frame then it's mute point.
> 
> 29ER FULL SUSPENSION


Yeah I think the hong fu sizing isn't accurate. If you check the seat tube length of the flyxii duallie's geo it's exactly 21 inches in the 21 size.


----------



## jos123 (Sep 14, 2011)

What suspension fork is best for the flyxi frame? 80mm, 100mm or 120mm?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

The frame is designed for 100mm fork, but I ride with 80mm and other ones with 120mm without problems


----------



## jos123 (Sep 14, 2011)

Ok, thanks


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Anybody seen a 120-130mm rear travel frame yet?


----------



## Perfect Gentleman (Aug 11, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Anybody seen a 120-130mm rear travel frame yet?


chinese ?


----------



## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Anybody seen a 120-130mm rear travel frame yet?


Given that there is only currently 1 Dual Suspension Chinese generic frame, the answer to that would be no.


----------



## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

any chance to design going to horst link?


----------



## Mad40rus (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi all, can you tell us about the Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er?
I want to build a bike for XC, can give some advice?
I choose chinese or Giant Anthem x 29.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Mad40rus said:


> I choose chinese or Giant Anthem x 29.


that's what I did.

wish I could tell you more but I'm still waiting for my frame to arrive


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Who is waiting for one off these mines been on order from flyxii for 6 weeks now and it's still not been posted.


----------



## jos123 (Sep 14, 2011)

I ordered mine from flyxi at 26 june, they told me that it should take 30 days before frame was ready from the factory. Got an email 3 days ago (31 july) with tracking number so it has been sent from Hong Kong.


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

They said 30 days for mine then 7 and now 10 more days so hopefully it will be here by the end of the month,I asked for a 3K Matt 19"


----------



## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

What type of rear shock (hi, med, low) would you recommend to use with flyxii FM-210 frame?


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I thinking of one of these frames but all the talk about the shock mounting hardware and bearings kind of freaks me out. I can build a bike from scratch, well build a HT from scratch. Done it too many times to mention, but all the talk about the shock has me lost. Can someone help me out with this? I have no idea where to start or what I would need. What all is needed besides the shock to mount on this frame?

Or would it be something my lbs would have on hand? I wouldn't mind just paying them to do it.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Lenny7 said:


> I thinking of one of these frames but all the talk about the shock mounting hardware and bearings kind of freaks me out. I can build a bike from scratch, well build a HT from scratch. Done it too many times to mention, but all the talk about the shock has me lost. Can someone help me out with this? I have no idea where to start or what I would need. What all is needed besides the shock to mount on this frame?
> 
> Or would it be something my lbs would have on hand? I wouldn't mind just paying them to do it.


Its dead simple, when you buy your shock it should come with bush mounts?
you need 22mm bushes and a M6 hole in the middle of the bush. 
all you need to buy after that is a smooth shank M6 bolt to go through it.

If your used to building bikes, you'll have nothing to worry about!


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

I ordered 4 frames from Jenny at Hong-Fu. They were supposedly completed and couriered/mailed on July 12. It's now over 4 weeks later and no sign of them at all.

Has anyone else had frames turn up after such a long period? Any recommendations on how one can trace (apart from the website) EMS parcels?


----------



## brianwon (Jun 2, 2012)

From the german site selling the (overpriced) painted version of this frame I see that the rider limit is 100kg (220lbs). 

I'm 220lbs fully loaded, anyone else around my size ride this frame? It's strange that this frame has the lowest max rider weight of all the other similar name-brand ones.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

raceface_lefty said:


> I ordered 4 frames from Jenny at Hong-Fu. They were supposedly completed and couriered/mailed on July 12. It's now over 4 weeks later and no sign of them at all.
> 
> Has anyone else had frames turn up after such a long period? Any recommendations on how one can trace (apart from the website) EMS parcels?


Did you get a tracking number for the EMS trace? My Light-Bicycle.com rims came via USPS after customs if that helps. I was told by my local postman that packages would tend to "get lost" on the Asian end, rather than the US end...including China and Taiwan...unless it came express.


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## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Mine will be here on Tuesday I had to pay £21 customs so not to bad will post a pick when it's done cant wait.


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

Pau11y said:


> Did you get a tracking number for the EMS trace?


They have turned up after 5 weeks, are now in customs for clearing. Can't wait to build and ride.


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Just done it 19" 3K Matt the frame came with the rear shock bolts so all need is the 8x22mm mount kit,it comes in at 23.3lb so not bad.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

looks good, just 100mm up front? 
I've just changed mine from single ring to double and bash.


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Yeh 100mm I have 30-38 on the front


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Just done it 19" 3K Matt the frame came with the rear shock bolts so all need is the 8x22mm mount kit,it comes in at 23.3lb so not bad.
> pic snipped


looks good. do you know what the weight of the frame with the shock mounted?


----------



## scottiercox (Aug 22, 2012)

cool


----------



## Erlomd (Aug 21, 2012)

very very cool


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Not sure with the shock but without it it was 2070g


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

Found this on eBay, appears to be same model but instead of Toray T700 carbon it is made from T1000 carbon - I asked the supplier and they confirmed it is t1000. Still no 142x12 rear dropout.

29er T1000 Full Carbon Fiber MTB Mountain Suspension Frame set clamp headset | eBay


----------



## brianwon (Jun 2, 2012)

hey Milkybar, any issues with the finish of your frame? Someone stated that the reason why flyxi was $100 cheaper than others was because they were selling seconds or blemished frames. Can you confirm?


----------



## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

How's the suspension on those things?

Any excessive pedal induced bob? How does it compare to the DW link or Giant Maestro?


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

brianwon said:


> hey Milkybar, any issues with the finish of your frame? Someone stated that the reason why flyxi was $100 cheaper than others was because they were selling seconds or blemished frames. Can you confirm?


Not true, at least with the hardtails. I ordered a ht earlier this year from flyxii and it was perfect.


----------



## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> How's the suspension on those things?
> 
> Any excessive pedal induced bob? How does it compare to the DW link or Giant Maestro?


would also like to know this


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Hi no its fine very nice


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Just done it 19" 3K Matt the frame came with the rear shock bolts so all need is the 8x22mm mount kit,it comes in at 23.3lb so not bad.


That is a nice looking bike. It reminds me of a Cannondale Scalpel.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> How's the suspension on those things?
> 
> Any excessive pedal induced bob? How does it compare to the DW link or Giant Maestro?


I have a fox pro pedal shock and i dont get any bob.


----------



## brianwon (Jun 2, 2012)

Anyone know what the current backlog is for this frame from flyxi and hong-fu? I emailed them but havent heard anything back.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Just done it 19" 3K Matt the frame came with the rear shock bolts so all need is the 8x22mm mount kit,it comes in at 23.3lb so not bad./QUOTE]
> 
> I was wondering, is this the FLYXI, FLX-FR-210 frame? What made you go with this frame, as to the dengfu, or ltbikes etc frame?
> It is the 17.5" frame that you have? I ride medium (18") size 26 inch wheel size frames, and I'm pretty much confused with the different sizing of these 29er frames, as to which one would fit me. Either the 17.5 or the 19 inch frame?
> The bike you built is damn right very sexy!


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Look at the effective top tube measurement and your question will be answered. Good luck with your decision and post some pics if it all goes ahead.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks for that. I'll measure my top tube and go from there.
I will post pics of my bike I'll build. It will take atleast a month or 2 though. Will order a frame this week sometime.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

finished by Flyxii build

11.2kg build. Lighter than my old Giant Anthem 26er build!!


----------



## Black37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Love it!! A few more details please..
- How much did you pay?
- What seat post is that?
- Is that an X0 rear derailleur?

Again... awesome!!



Timbo83 said:


> finished by Flyxii build
> 
> 11.2kg build. Lighter than my old Giant Anthem 26er build!!


----------



## Black37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Sorry... How about wheels and side throw carbon bottle cage? Flyxii as well?



Timbo83 said:


> finished by Flyxii build
> 
> 11.2kg build. Lighter than my old Giant Anthem 26er build!!


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Timbo83 said:


> finished by Flyxii build
> 
> 11.2kg build. Lighter than my old Giant Anthem 26er build!!


Are those zip ties are your rear brake hose? It didn't have guides?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Lenny7 said:


> Are those zip ties are your rear brake hose? It didn't have guides?


Yep, I used zips for the brake lines.

The radius of the swing arm meant that I had a big loop of brake line under the BB. I didn't like it. If the little bit of cable for the rear dérailleur gets caught and ripped its no big deal, I can still ride it. But the brakes cable I was a bit worried about. Works well anyway


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Black37 said:


> Love it!! A few more details please..
> - How much did you pay?
> - What seat post is that?
> - Is that an X0 rear derailleur?
> ...


Paid about 3800 all up. All parts new, and all labour by me. Parts were all bought online.

Seat post is a KCNC scandium

Only have an x0 crank. Everything else is XT except the chain which is XTR

Wheels are Light Bicycles carbon wheels

Bottle cage is Bontrager side entry


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*BB hight*

Very. Nice
What fork and shock length did you use ?
Can you measure the BB center to the ground?
Would like to know if it is hight enough to Avoid pedal strikes.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Big Foot said:


> Very. Nice
> What fork and shock length did you use ?
> Can you measure the BB center to the ground?
> Would like to know if it is hight enough to Avoid pedal strikes.


Fork is 100mm, shock is 165/35mm.

Not sure on bb height. I'll have to get someone to measure it for me. It will always depend on your sag though


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks
With out being on the bike what is the BB center to ground.
I ride 180mm cranks so I want to make sure I have enough clearance ,to avoid pedal strikes.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm looking at the Flyxii website at the FLX-FR-210 frame, it quotes "Headset size : 1 1 /2" Head Tube Reduced to 1-1/8" Fork Tube Threadless Headset"
When ordering the front fork (Fox 32 Float 100 CTD), there are a few options of the steerer tube, "1-18" Threadless & 1.5>1-1/8" (tapered)" Do I order the '1.5>1-1/8" (tapered)' instead of the '1-18" Threadless'?


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

mikulas said:


> Do I order the '1.5>1-1/8" (tapered)'?


Yes, that's the one you need.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

raceface_lefty said:


> Yes, that's the one you need.


Thanks, I just purchased the frame, and looking forward to building it up once it comes in the mail. Anna from Flyxii said it will take up to 10 days to deliver.
I'll order the forks next week, but pretty disappointing with the fox fork prices here in Australia. I wanted to order from either Jensenusa or cambriabike, but they don't ship Fox forks to Australia. Does anyone know of another option for Fox forks that ship to Australia?


----------



## dereknz (May 3, 2011)

mikulas said:


> Thanks, I just purchased the frame, and looking forward to building it up once it comes in the mail. Anna from Flyxii said it will take up to 10 days to deliver.
> I'll order the forks next week, but pretty disappointing with the fox fork prices here in Australia. I wanted to order from either Jensenusa or cambriabike, but they don't ship Fox forks to Australia. Does anyone know of another option for Fox forks that ship to Australia?


I'm in NZ and when I built my Chinese carbon HT 11 months ago I used CRC UK a lot for my component purchases


----------



## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

Timbo83 said:


> finished by Flyxii build
> 11.2kg build. Lighter than my old Giant Anthem 26er build!!


Cool!
By the way,*Timbo83*, what can you say about flyxii fr210-based bike in comparison with Anthem? How does new bike feel?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Ctarter said:


> Cool!
> By the way,*Timbo83*, what can you say about flyxii fr210-based bike in comparison with Anthem? How does new bike feel?


Ok, so from an XC perspective ;

I had an alloy Anthem, so for starters the power transfer feels much more direct. More so than I thought it would, given that the anthem has a one piece rear. Though you could put some of that down to the carbon rims as well.

Geometry wise it's only slightly longer on the top tube, but the rear is longer because of the wheels.

Steering- well it's a 29er, so it's inherently slower steering, but only slightly. It just requires a little more effort in the real tight corners. Turning circle surprisingly is not much different.

Suspension and handling - the front end is VERY stiff, and with the carbon rims it's pretty much point and shoot. There's very little horizontal deflection in the rear. I need to dial all in the front fork some more though, maybe run a bit more negative spring.

The rear suspension is less plush on the smaller bumps than the Anthem, because you need a good platform for pedaling. I'm running it in the mid compression setting on the monarch shock. It's a bit of a trade off, but that's what happens with single pivot suspension. Pedaling wise its just as good as an Anthem, but you do need that compression in the shock.

Haven't really pushed it in some really rough stuff yet, but larger bumps (a few 1 foot jumps) have been soaked up well

How's that?


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Timbo, can you shim that can so it ramps up more? Perhaps that might allow for less compression dampening and a bit more small bump compliance? I guess that's the holy grail with this frame in a way. What's the perfect shock and the perfect shim? As this is very similar to the Scott, would it's standard shock be a good default shock? (probably expensive???)


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

about the rear shock. I'm looking at the different sizes.
I want to get the fox Float CTD, and the sizes they come at are:
Length / Travel
5.50 x 1.00
6.00 x 1.25
6.50 x 1.50
7.25 x 1.75
7.50 x 2.00
7.875 x 2.00

Which one do I order? Is it the 6.50x1.50?


For the front I'm getting 100mm travel


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

MagicCarpet said:


> Timbo, can you shim that can so it ramps up more? Perhaps that might allow for less compression dampening and a bit more small bump compliance? I guess that's the holy grail with this frame in a way. What's the perfect shock and the perfect shim? As this is very similar to the Scott, would it's standard shock be a good default shock? (probably expensive???)


Well, yes and no

If you have a read through a lot of the HONEST reviews on the current Scott Spark 29ers, the thing that stands out the most is the constant criticism of the rear suspension. The fact that its either all locked out or all plush (and even then not _that_ plush).

Some reviewers have swapped the shock out for one with a platform, like an rp23 etc, and found a huge improvement.

shimming the shock might make it feel better, could make it worse, i dont know. ive only had it a week so im still only just running it in and tuning it. i dont really want to open the shock up just yet before ive really played with the stock option.

mikulas - you need a 6.5 x 1.5. just make sure you get the right velocity tune. i dont know how the fox shocks rate their tunes.


----------



## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

If 6.50 is 165mm then yes that's the one.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Milkybar & Timbo.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Here is the start of my China project.


----------



## shem (Sep 20, 2009)

Shiney :-D


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

mikulas said:


> I'm looking at the Flyxii website at the FLX-FR-210 frame, it quotes "Headset size : 1 1 /2" Head Tube Reduced to 1-1/8" Fork Tube Threadless Headset"
> When ordering the front fork (Fox 32 Float 100 CTD), there are a few options of the steerer tube, "1-18" Threadless & 1.5>1-1/8" (tapered)" Do I order the '1.5>1-1/8" (tapered)' instead of the '1-18" Threadless'?


Yes get the tapered 1.5>1/18


----------



## joe_blow (Sep 16, 2011)

I want to get one of these build for my wife... just not sure on handle bar / stem stuff... shes 5'1 can someone help with stem / bar / headset to get? 

Also will a front fox tapered float F29 that has Steerer cut to:180mm (7.08 inches) work ok with this frame?

thanks!
Joe


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Joe

This is never a popular opinion around here, but at 5"1' I'd say your wife would be better suited to a 26" frame. HongFu have just released a new carbon 26" dual sus frame. The stem you need may be shorter than the ones they have, but the headset and bars could be bought from them. My wife is 5" exactly. A 29er just isn't happening.


----------



## joe_blow (Sep 16, 2011)

MagicCarpet said:


> Joe
> 
> This is never a popular opinion around here, but at 5"1' I'd say your wife would be better suited to a 26" frame. HongFu have just released a new carbon 26" dual sus frame. The stem you need may be shorter than the ones they have, but the headset and bars could be bought from them. My wife is 5" exactly. A 29er just isn't happening.


She currently has a 26", A friend of mine (male) is actually smaller 5-0 and owns a 
small 2012 stumpy fsr 29er with great sucesss, wife rode it and likes the 2012 specialized stumpjumper fsr small...

maybe this frame is not a good thing then for small riders..

I was debating this frame just because my stumpy is all upgraded and i want to utilize all my stock 2012 components. I just need a frame basically and i cannot locate small 2012 stumpjumper fsr 29er frames for sale..... and the rare one i found dealer wont sell out of state due to specialized policies.


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

No problem Joe. If she's happy, that's what matters. I can't see this frame being any different. I just wonder how such a rise from saddle to bar could be tollerable, but it's not my business in the end.

Best of luck with it.


----------



## joe_blow (Sep 16, 2011)

MagicCarpet said:


> No problem Joe. If she's happy, that's what matters. I can't see this frame being any different. I just wonder how such a rise from saddle to bar could be tollerable, but it's not my business in the end.
> 
> Best of luck with it.


would you happen to know what is the standover height on the small 15.5 frame?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

joe_blow said:


> would you happen to know what is the standover height on the small 15.5 frame?


I hope it will be useful


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

What Chris King or Cane Creek headset can I fit to this tapered head tube? Anyone gone with anything other than the headset that can be ordered with the frame?

I have found the headset bearings that come with the frame just fit in, do they need to be pressed at all?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

My ones were were tight but fit and work perfectly?


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

vwsurfbum said:


> My ones were were tight but fit and work perfectly?


Tight as in force them in? I have fitted but the top bearing doesn't seem to click in, it just fits without really seating properly.

It works ok but I have had to tighten the top cap very tight to avoid any play on the fork.


----------



## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

raceface_lefty said:


> It works ok but I have had to tighten the top cap very tight to avoid any play on the fork.


Are you saying that the headset just fell in to the head tube?? That is definitely not acceptable...

I'm looking to buy one of these frames, but no way will I pull the trigger if that's the case.


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

No t he headset is already sealed into the carbon frame it's just the bearings that are push fit. 
You do have to tighten them down, as with any sealed bearing headset


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

recitio said:


> Are you saying that the headset just fell in to the head tube?? That is definitely not acceptable...
> 
> I'm looking to buy one of these frames, but no way will I pull the trigger if that's the case.


The headset is fine, the bottom bearing sits really tight in the headset. The top bearing appears not press in as tightly.

Maybe I need a bearing press to get the top bearing to go into the headset. Once I tighten the top allen key and stem there is no movement on the fork, it is tight and the bearing appears to be seated properly.


----------



## shredjunkie (May 16, 2012)

So let me get this right, a company like Scott spends a bunch of money on R&D to develop a frame, and then has it manufactured in China to save costs and to hit a price point. Then the Chinese manufacturer steals the design and hands it over to another Chinese company that then produces and sells the frame at an even lower price because they didn't have to spend anything on R&D. This doesn't seem like it going to end well for the non-Chinese companies and will likely end up killing innovation in the long run.


----------



## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

That's quite clearly NOT what happened here.

The Hong Fu 29er takes many design and styling cues from the Scott Spark, but is not an exact replica, and certainly not made with any trade secrets or molds stolen from Scott. Furthermore, the Scott Spark is likely made in Taiwan, not China. Chinese carbon fiber isn't trusted by many (any?) brand names just yet. Taiwanese Carbon fiber (like anything bicycling and Taiwanese) is 100% accepted in the mainstream.


----------



## shredjunkie (May 16, 2012)

Recito, thanks for the clarification. Was curious because I have friends who have had products in other markets ripped by Chinese companies before they were even able to get them to market, including forged holographic seals.


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

ok, so update on the bike.

Ive got the suspension pretty dialled in now, and its become pretty plush actually, but still super quick and efficient on the climbs. 

im 73kg, front is set at 128psi and rear at 195psi which gives about 28% sag both ends. Ive found that running the monarch on the lowest compression level gives the best levels of grip and plushness, with only a hint of bob, even when stomping on the pedals. The second level of compression makes climbing only slightly better, but the plushness is certainly effected. I guess it will depend on your preferences and weight.

im really loving this bike now. its a beast of an xc machine. the only time i notice the extra length and bigger tyres in a negative way is in really tight corners. other than that, is rails the corners, and totally smashes the climbs. it feels like im putting less effort in at pretty much all situations. carbon wheels probably help out too!


----------



## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

I was about to purchase the one from Jenny, and at the end she included a $65 Paypal processing fee. Was that the deal with those of you that already bought a frame, or something new? I didn't see it mentioned before. If so, does the other company (I think it was Flyxii) do the same thing?

Also, did I read on an earlier thread that the Flyxii company's frame works with a threaded bottom bracket?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

II bought through flyxii at no aditional fees and mine has a normal threaded BB


----------



## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

Good. I think I'll be purchasing from Flyxii, then. So here is the breakdown, apparently:

Hong Fu: $700 frame, $15 headset, $88 shipping, and $65 Paypal processing fee = $868
Flyxii: $700 for frame, headset, and shipping, with no processing fee

I know that the above is correct with regard to Hong Fu, so unless I missed something with Flyxii, sounds like a no-brainer.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

That's what I paid. $700 all in.


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## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

brianlancast said:


> Good. I think I'll be purchasing from Flyxii, then. So here is the breakdown, apparently:
> 
> Hong Fu: $700 frame, $15 headset, $88 shipping, and $65 Paypal processing fee = $868
> Flyxii: $700 for frame, headset, and shipping, with no processing fee
> ...


Disappointing as it is I'm starting to feel that Jenny at Hong-Fu is taking the piss a little on price and service. What are Flyxii delivery times like from payment date?

Edit: fixed grammar


----------



## supericepower (Mar 10, 2011)

Good evening friends, bought a frame this 17.5, however I am a little lost with respect to the rear shox, could someone tell me the exact model, I will use the reba sl 100mm fork.
Thanks


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

raceface_lefty said:


> Disappointing as it is I'm starting to feel that Jenny at Hong-Fu is taking the piss a little on price and service. What are Flyxii delivery times like from payment date?
> 
> Edit: fixed grammar


Mine was a little slow as I ordered the matte finish. Full 6 weeks to manufacture, 2 weeks for delivery to Australia.


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## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

supericepower said:


> Good evening friends, bought a frame this 17.5, however I am a little lost with respect to the rear shox, could someone tell me the exact model, I will use the reba sl 100mm fork.
> Thanks


You need a 165x38mm shock. There is internal cabling for a remote lever, The new Fox CTD with remote fits if you remove the rebound button.


----------



## supericepower (Mar 10, 2011)

raceface_lefty said:


> You need a 165x38mm shock. There is internal cabling for a remote lever, The new Fox CTD with remote fits if you remove the rebound button.


_Thanks for reply dear friend :thumbsup:

One more doubt, and front derailleur ? What type is this ?

THANKS !

_


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

supericepower said:


> _Thanks for reply dear friend :thumbsup:
> 
> One more doubt, and front derailleur ? What type is this ?
> 
> ...


Page 11 post 269


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

So I will be joining you guys soon.

Ordered mine in the 19" size from baixiangbike.com for $829 + $55 DHL Express shipping to Greece. Should be getting it any day now.

As I'm seeing in this thread, I paid a bit more than you, but I have absolutely no regrets as the service is awesome so far, and their english is pretty good.

I also ordered a wheelset, handlebar, seat, and a bottle holder from them, all carbon.

I'm getting back to biking after about a 10 year break (not sure how that happened), and I'm going to have some fun while doing so. So, great to read you like the frame! 

So the last month and a half I'm catching up with all the new MTB tech and configuring my setup. The wheelset they built for me had Novatec hubs, I guess that's fine, but then I realized I want it with DT Swiss 240's hubs (to be able to run the XD XX1 cassette, plus having more fork options as the swiss is configurable), so I ordered these at CRC and had them shipped to China by DHL (no UK VAT on that, so cheaper than if I bought them directly, but still have to see if there's any import duty on that in China).

The frame type is stated as "FRX-F09", and they told me that they manufacture it. I asked why can I see it all over Alibaba.com sold by different companies (who all claim to be manufacturing it), and they said it's an all new and popular design, so more companies are making it. Make of that what you will, but I ain't gonna pay $11k for a big brand carbon bike when I can make a better one for $4k.

So I'm going to fit mine with MT8, Fox CTD, and XX1 (out this month). Also the carbon seatpost from crank bro's.

Still can't decide on Gripshift vs. Trigger though. I've always ridden Gripshift so I know exactly its pros and cons. Bottom line, it does compromise your handlebar grip, at least when you move your hand from the full-grip position to the shifting position. Truth is that I've never tried the new grips. But truth is that the trigger technology is probably also better than 10 years ago. Also, I want to be able to brake while downshifting, which is not really possible with Gripshift if you downshift over many gears, at least as far as I remember. The ride style I had was to downshift first and then start braking, if the situation allowed that. But I guess a good strategy here would be to try a trigger, and switch to gripshift later if the trigger is not good. However I'm not sure what the separate parts availability will be for a totally new groupset like the XX1, but I guess they have to offer it in parts as time goes on.

Also I'm unsure about the CTD combined remote lockout, as it's huge, but not having the second shifter, I could fit it on the bottom of the bar instead. This is a tougher choice, as (AFAIK) you can't convert a non-remote CTD fork/shock to remote-ones easily. But again, I'm not sure why not, I just read it somewhere.

So yeah, great info in this thread so far and I will post my build pics etc. when I get to it.

I'm attaching a 19" geometry and the settings for Linkage - a suspension calculator program I bought yesterday to figure out the leverage ratio curve for this suspension type - I haven't used it yet though.

Oh yeah, another thing I haven't decided yet is the travel of the front fork. I've read this thread and I see you guys run it with 80 to 120. The terrain around here is pretty rocky I assume, brutal climbs, but I also like fast road riding, and I don't plan to trash this bike with DH or jumping, so I really don't know. That 80mm setup I've seen here got me thinking I think 100mm would be a good choice. Or maybe 120.


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

raceface_lefty said:


> You need a 165x38mm shock. There is internal cabling for a remote lever, The new Fox CTD with remote fits if you remove the rebound button.


Is it OK to keep the rebound button on a version without remote?


----------



## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

chokemo said:


> medsafestock com/v2/search html?key=Lopressor&a=47524]Order Lopressor HERE - ENTER PHARMACY - We Offer Lopressor online without a prescription
> 
> medsafestock com/v2/search html?key=Lopressor&a=47524]
> 
> ...


Dude...this is awesome! I have so been looking for a source of low-cost metoprolol to go with my new chinese carbon 29er.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

ypocat said:


> I'm attaching a 19" geometry and the settings for Linkage - a suspension calculator program I bought yesterday to figure out the leverage ratio curve for this suspension type - I haven't used it yet though.


Be aware that this geometry data is for the 21" version! (533mm seat tube == 21")


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

two-one said:


> Be aware that this geometry data is for the 21" version! (533mm seat tube == 21")


Whoa. Thanks for spotting that. I requested the diagram for 19". I will post it when I get it.

Anyone here's already got the 19" drawing by any chance?


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

ypocat said:


> Whoa. Thanks for spotting that. I requested the diagram for 19". I will post it when I get it.
> 
> Anyone here's already got the 19" drawing by any chance?


Check the flyxii page

http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=336&id=601


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i'd like to use my 2005 prophetas a part donor. it has a deore lx e type derailer. would get the bb30 frame. so the truvativ stylo will fit right? not sure if the project 321 lefty adapter fits. is it possible to leftify this frame?


----------



## mikulas1 (Sep 29, 2008)

raceface_lefty said:


> Disappointing as it is I'm starting to feel that Jenny at Hong-Fu is taking the piss a little on price and service. What are Flyxii delivery times like from payment date?
> 
> Edit: fixed grammar


Mine took a little over 1 week to deliver from FLYXXI, and their customer service was great, they answered all of my questions via email and Skype.
Also want to note, if any one is interested. I pulled apart all the bearings, just to see the quality etc. The bearings are all Japanese made sealed bearings.
Also the frame came with 2 extra rear derailluer hangars as spare. All for $700 delivered


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

kidd said:


> i'd like to use my 2005 prophetas a part donor. it has a deore lx e type derailer. would get the bb30 frame. so the truvativ stylo will fit right? not sure if the project 321 lefty adapter fits. is it possible to leftify this frame?


Is the prophet bb30 equipped ? The whole crank setup is different between threaded and bb30, nothing is interchangeable

Check with your local project 321 dealer for the parts for conversion. It's a standard 1 1/5 to 1 1/12 head tube, just check the geometry in the flyxii link above to see if it suits.

Also, can't remember what the prophet was for travel. You wouldn't want to go over 120mm for these I reckon


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Here's the detailed 19" geometry pic. (Though thanks for the smaller one, Timbo83.  )

My frame is 3rd day in Athens (in "Clearance delay" state), which is one stop before the DHL destination service area.

Wondering how they do it if an import tax needs to be paid — do they contact you by phone — or how do they request it from you?

The value on the package is $100, so I'm wondering if that even qualifies for an import duty. Anyway, it was a weekend, so maybe that's why the delay.

EDIT: wah, just as I was writing to DHL via their "contact express" form (because when I closely looked at the tacking status, it said "wait to be contacted or contact us"), the frame moved further in the chain. Will see how it develops next.


----------



## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

$1,749 - Atami XC/29er Carbon Full Suspension - MSRP - $1,749 - Sudu Bikes Worldwide


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Beij said:


> $1,749 - ...Atami XC/29er Carbon Full Suspension - MSRP - $1,749 - Sudu Bikes Worldwide


Would love to know who actually makes these frames, even if their name consisted from chinese signs only.


----------



## tskubi (Mar 21, 2011)

ypocat said:


> Would love to know who actually makes these frames, even if their name consisted from chinese signs only.


One only answer : MIRACLE


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

tskubi said:


> One only answer : MIRACLE


then that would be: 奇蹟


----------



## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

Dam 21 pages. I tried reading all the posts but around page 13 I got lost. So if I order one from FLYXI will it come with shock hardware? I need a 6.50 I to I shock? What about the lifespan of the bushings in the pivots at the dropouts? I have a really nice build kit on my hardtail that I would use. And I am thinking about maybe going with a lefty if I can figure out a way to afford it.


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i emailed project 321. they sent me an email stating. due to the technical nature of the question my request has been turned over to the tech department. and i should hear something ina few days.


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

ypocat said:


> Whoa. Thanks for spotting that. I requested the diagram for 19". I will post it when I get it.
> 
> Anyone here's already got the 19" drawing by any chance?


I think we've all seen the geo, no need to post it.


----------



## wireless0 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hello, all.
Is it possible to attach Cannodale's Lefty to any of these frames?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

i anticipated using spacers to increase the stack height. any idea if thats 321?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

wireless0 said:


> Hello, all.
> Is it possible to attach Cannodale's Lefty to any of these frames?
> Thanks in advance!


I found this photo


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Bike complete. Went for a test ride, and rides awesome! Really happy with the complete bike and setup.
Weighing at around 10kgs


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

mikulas said:


> Bike complete. Went for a test ride, and rides awesome! Really happy with the complete bike and setup.
> Weighing at around 10kgs


looks great, congrats! my frame will arrive tomorrow, the dhl express clearance took a whole f*cking week.

is that CTD front and rear? you don't miss the remotes? is it easy to dial in-flight? (probably too early to ask about that though)

what factory capacity / stiffness of the rear shock have you opted for? mid or hard?

i still haven't gotten around to compute the leverage ratio for this frame.


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

mikulas said:


> Bike complete. Went for a test ride, and rides awesome! Really happy with the complete bike and setup.
> Weighing at around 10kgs


also, great design work balancing the white fork with the white grips - did not occur to me as a good combo!

(i'll be most prob getting a black fork, but still, good idea)


----------



## roy harley (May 8, 2004)

Chainstay length seems a bit on the longer side (452mm = ~17.8in) compared to a lot of 17.5" chainstay length on a lot of FS, race oriented 29ers out there.

How it is the pick up and go on these bikes and can anyone compare that to some of the other 29er bikes they may have tired out as well with maybe a shorter chainstays?

The bikes look good!!

thanks :thumbsup:


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## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Both front and rear shox are the 2013 fox ctd. The rear shock has 'climb tune F' and 'compression tune F' so my guess is its firm or hard
I used the 'fox ird app' on my iphone to setup both shox, and it helped heaps.

The pickup and go on this bike actually suprised me heaps, especially when you lockout the rear shock. It's almost as responsive on the pickup as my 26er hard tail, and while on the go, it rides better than my 26er hardtail.

The whole bike handles really smooth over rocks and roots. I went off a few drop offs and jumps with speed, and the setup felt comfy, especially after setting up and fine tuning the shox with the 'fox app'

I'll list all the parts I installed, later today.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

Here is the parts list.
Handle bars: Easton ec90 low riser
Shifters: shimano xt
Brakes: Hayes prime pro
Stem: crank brothers cobalt 3
Seat post: crank brothers cobalt 11
Seat clamp: Thompson
Seat: selle italia slr
Wheels: crank brothers cobalt 3
Tyres: schwalbe racing Ralph
Front fork: fox float 29 32 ctd with trail adjust
Rear shock: fox float ctd with kashima coat
Cranks: shimano xtr
Front derailluer: xtr
Rear derailluer: xtr
Cassette: xtr
Chain: xtr
Pedals: xtr
Grips: esi silicone


----------



## fredmtb (Oct 18, 2012)

*weight?*

Hi im bulid mine a few month ago and i love it. I wonder if you tested how heavy it is? My ended up at 11kg without pedals.

// Fred.


----------



## Bludshroom (Oct 6, 2012)

Can someone tell me if the below will be a good build for $2500?
Thanks in advance. 

FM036
IP-B03 handlebar
F1irst suspension fork
IP-SP4 seatpost
IP-SD2 saddle
FSA NO:42/ACB headset
Shimano XT shifter
SHimano XT Derailleur
Shimano XT crank
Shimano XT cassette
Tektro ORION brake
carbon Spacers and top cap
CCC alloy 29er wheels


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

woo hoo, I finally have received the frame. Looks and feels great.

What I find interesting is the chain-stays/seat-tube asymmetry, see the first photo.

What I don't know is what are the 2 holes on the rear triangle for, see the 2 next photos - anybody could help me on that?

The headset that came with it calls itself "Neco", see the last picture. Wondering if it would make sense to replace it with e.g. this one: Ritchey WCS Drop In Int. Carbon Taper Headset 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com - not because of weight though.


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

ypocat said:


> woo hoo, I finally have received the frame. Looks and feels great.
> 
> What I find interesting is the chain-stays/seat-tube asymmetry, see the first photo.
> 
> ...


The 2 holes are for the front derailluer cable.


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

tskubi said:


> One only answer : MIRACLE


ah, I thought you were joking!

http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/...12_New_fashion_29ER_Suspension_MTB_frame.html

Although these may be just resellers as well. So it'd be more like a "Mystery" than "Miracle".


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

mikulas said:


> The 2 holes are for the front derailluer cable.


thanks, so those don't concern me, since I'm going with XX1.

but I should probably seal them with something any hints what to use for that?


----------



## mikulas (Aug 26, 2012)

fredmtb said:


> Hi im bulid mine a few month ago and i love it. I wonder if you tested how heavy it is? My ended up at 11kg without pedals.
> 
> // Fred.


Yeah, its around 10.1kg


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

I've got the new Fox CTD shock installed. I'm finding a bit of pedal bob when both front and rear are locked out and I'm gunning it at a high cadence on tar or hardpack. Only on full lock (Climb mode) at the rear, if I go to Trail mode the feel of bob is eliminated but obviously that is the shock doing it's job.

My question is, what can I change to eliminate bob on full lock out, a hardtail should not bob?


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

mikulas said:


> The 2 holes are for the front derailleur cable.


Why 2 holes for the FD, I use the one on the drive side, what is the other for?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

raceface_lefty said:


> Why 2 holes for the FD, I use the one on the drive side, what is the other for?


At different times I used an xtr derailleur for triple and a s3 sram for double. In one case I used a hole, in the other case the other hole. The two holes depend on the type of derailleur used


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

raceface_lefty said:


> I've got the new Fox CTD shock installed. I'm finding a bit of pedal bob when both front and rear are locked out and I'm gunning it at a high cadence on tar or hardpack. Only on full lock (Climb mode) at the rear, if I go to Trail mode the feel of bob is eliminated but obviously that is the shock doing it's job.
> 
> My question is, what can I change to eliminate bob on full lock out, a hardtail should not bob?


Pretty unusual that you're experiencing bob when it's in the fully locked position. I run my rockshox monarch on the lightest pedal platform at about 28% sag and get only the tiniest bit of bob, I can hardly notice it.

Maybe there's a problem with the shock. If there's only a small amount of bob in trail mode, lockout should not experience any


----------



## fredmtb (Oct 18, 2012)

*bikebuilder*

have anyone seen the "FRM be active 29" mtb?

look at FRM:s home page .
it must be a fm036 frame.

It´s awsome that they manage to build it to 9.35kg
but ca 8000$ is much money:madman:


----------



## SaintJV (Oct 22, 2012)

Funny is , when i came to whoseller in my time to choose a carbon bike he told me that since all manufactury was removed to china all carbon frames went up with quality by 100%...Which is so sad... Not to mention the decrease the price...


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Has anyone bought one of these frames in the UK?

Am thinking of getting one for my wifey in s/m if anyone has one I'd love to give it a ride.
Well she would, doubt it would fit my gigantinormous size.


----------



## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

You can look at other photos in "my gallery"
Anyway, I'll describe components:
frame 21" (with seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, shock, bottle cage) from flyxii
fork RS SID RLT 2013
wheels on pacenti CL25 rims with DT Swiss 240 hubs (QR) and aerolit spokes (F716g, R817g)
brakes shimano xtr 985 (F180, R160)
crank FSA k-force light 386 BB30 27/39 10speed
cassete shimano XT CS-M771-10 11-36
rear der. shim RD-M980 GS
front der. shim. FD-M785-E 2/10
chain shim. CN-M980GS
shifters shim. SL-M780 2/3 10
pedals Token TK462M

tyre: for dry conditions Schwalbe Furious Fred Evo PaceStar Faltreifen 29x2.0 (installed tubeless)
for wet Maxxis Beaver 29x2.0 aramid tpi60

Total Weight: 10 370g ("dry" version)

Criticism is appreciated


----------



## towag (Mar 30, 2012)

Ctarter said:


> You can look at other photos in "my gallery"
> Anyway, I'll describe components:
> frame 21" (with seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, shock, bottle cage) from flyxii
> fork RS SID RLT 2013
> ...


Very nice built! Which damper did you choose? And shouldn't it be mounted the other way round? Looking forward for your first ride reports ....


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Ctarter said:


> You can look at other photos in "my gallery"
> Anyway, I'll describe components:
> frame 21" (with seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, shock, bottle cage) from flyxii
> fork RS SID RLT 2013
> ...


Really nice build.

Additionally to the rear shock question asked by towag, what's the length of your seatpost? I'm contemplating that 350mm should plenty enough there, actually I already have it ordered. (I'm going with the 19" frame.)

What's your stem / seatpost / handlebar?

Looks like you went with the chinese carbon seat - I already have a similar one at home, but haven't tried it out yet (no bike lol) - I'm worried it won't be too comfortable - did you do any longer rides on it?

I'm also going with DT Swiss 240s (Center Lock), 15 front and 10 rear, but I'm getting carbon rims from China.

What tubeless kit have you used? Any homemade additions to the mixture?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

SaintJV said:


> Funny is , when i came to whoseller in my time to choose a carbon bike he told me that since all manufactury was removed to china all carbon frames went up with quality by 100%...Which is so sad... Not to mention the decrease the price...


You know, I really did not know what you were talking about, but then I found this blog: Busted Carbon

None of that is chinese carbon! But I think the real issue why carbon is so expensive here on west (europe and US), is that it requires the user to not be a total noob, and e.g. use a torque wrench and generally be more careful with the bike than with a steel or aluminum frame, otherwise breakages result, and obviously manufacturers don't like it - even if you decline warranty on lawful terms, you get a dissatisfied customer. I think that's the reason why carbon is destined to high-end bikes and savvy build-it-myself users.

Now carbon-kevlar mixture might be the next big thing - it's lighter and stiffer than carbon, and (I assume) much harder to destroy, although definitely not noob-proof.


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## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

Thank you,* towag*


towag said:


> ...Which damper did you choose? And shouldn't it be mounted the other way round?


Kindshock 582RL, it comes with frame ( I asked flyxii any shock to escape problem with fastener). Heavy, no rebound, but two air cameras. I'm going to replace it with RS Monarch RT3.
Does not matter how to mount it, there is no remote; current position is convinient for me to reach adjustment lever from saddle, less mud comes from rear wheel.


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## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

ypocat said:


> ...what's the length of your seatpost?
> What's your stem / seatpost / handlebar?
> 
> Looks like you went with the chinese carbon seat - I already have a similar one at home, but haven't tried it out yet (no bike lol) - I'm worried it won't be too comfortable - did you do any longer rides on it?
> ...


Thanks!
all sticks from flyxii: seatpost 350 (sp-006), just enough for me
stem 90 (st-004), two handlebars: flat 600mm (hb-021) and riser 660mm, saddle (sd-003). Saddle is comfartable (proved by 48m trip), shape the same as mine old "san marco" on other bike.
"No tubes" yellow tape, nippels and sealant.

I have looked at chinese carbon rims, but decided pacenti would be lighter. If you'll test carbon rims and will give positive feedback then my seond wheelset could be carbon.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

About to send off bushing measurements to Fox for shock order. I measured 21.7 mm front and 22.5 mm rear. Is that sounding about right? Ordered from Flyxii, and found it interesting that rear bolt doesn't completely clear as it should. Should work fine anyway, but not a perfect fit. 

Also, anyone else have the rear derailleur provided not fit as it should on the frame? Not that big of a deal. A grinder should be able to remedy the problem, as it isn't that much off, but just curious.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

brianlancast said:


> About to send off bushing measurements to Fox for shock order. I measured 21.7 mm front and 22.5 mm rear. Is that sounding about right? Ordered from Flyxii, and found it interesting that rear bolt doesn't completely clear as it should. Should work fine anyway, but not a perfect fit.
> 
> Also, anyone else have the rear derailleur provided not fit as it should on the frame? Not that big of a deal. A grinder should be able to remedy the problem, as it isn't that much off, but just curious.


I don't have a vernier caliper yet but measuring it with tape shows approx. 23mm for both, and the geometry pic states 22.4mm, so in any case I'm getting the 22,20mm 8mm bushings for my CTD shock.

I've got the frame from Baixiang bike, they call it FRX-F09, so it may be slightly different from yours, not sure.

Also no need to write to Fox, you can buy these in shops, e.g. Bike24 - Fox Racing Shox Hardware Kit (Bushings) 8mm.

Edit: also, my frame came with the shock bolts already, and they also don't fit exactly (the "female" parts are a few mms shorter).


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

CaveGiant said:


> Has anyone bought one of these frames in the UK?
> 
> Am thinking of getting one for my wifey in s/m if anyone has one I'd love to give it a ride.
> Well she would, doubt it would fit my gigantinormous size.


Yes matey, here's my build. been a few upgrades since the last update but been busy.
BikeRadar.com • View topic - Cally's dead, long live Beyonce!


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## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

riding review anyone ?


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

em2 said:


> riding review anyone ?


Done some xc races on the bike now, and about 900km over the last 3 months on it.

Would suit taller riders better I think (say 5"10 up).

Climbs fantastic, very stiff and only a tiny bit of bob, even when fully open on the shock.

Frame is stiff and direct for downhill, steering is precise (especially with carbon wheels). When set up right it's very quick through the twisting stiff, and awesome over loose rocks and rough sections.

Only time there is a compromise is in slower, extremely tight corners (like around a single tree), when the longer wheelbase can be felt.

Hope that helps


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Timbo83 said:


> Done some xc races on the bike now, and about 900km over the last 3 months on it.
> 
> Would suit taller riders better I think (say 5"10 up).
> 
> ...


I would agree with this.
Only additional i would say is, i feel like you sit on it rather than in it.


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## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

Timbo83 said:


> Done some xc races on the bike now, and about 900km over the last 3 months on it.
> 
> Would suit taller riders better I think (say 5"10 up).
> 
> ...


thanks


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> I would agree with this.
> Only additional i would say is, i feel like you sit on it rather than in it.


Hmm, I've always felt the opposite , coming from the old 26er Anthem I had. You have a medium frame right? Could be a sizing issue if you don't feel "in" the bike


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Could be, i think my 17.5" might be a little small?

Anyway, just found this Scott Nude shock at a really good price
NEW SCOTT NUDE TC / DT SWISS REAR SHOCK ( TWINLOC REMOTE , 165MM x 37MM ) | eBay


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Found this ID on the inside of the frame. Still no clue who really makes it. Does that ID tell any of you anything?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Flyxii


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

vwsurfbum said:


> Flyxii





> An "open mold frame" is a mold which the factory owns. They can sell that frame to anyone they choose. The brands who buy these open mold frames don't own or control the design, engineering, or material selection for the products they're marketing.


From: Are All Carbon Bikes Created Equal? | Cycling Tips

I think this is one such frame. The factory probably slaps an ID on it depending on who they make it for.

Nice pictorial from one such factory: 
Gallery: Swift Carbon: Inside A High-end Chinese Bike Factory - BikeRadar

On a separate note, my build is coming on great. Should be done in a week or two, provided XX1 is not delayed further. I had some problems with the rear suspension pivots, but these were resolved with some filing and extra washers. Btw the pivots are otherwise really good quality, contain japanese sealed bearings.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Ctarter said:


> You can look at other photos in "my gallery"
> Anyway, I'll describe components:
> frame 21" (with seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebar, shock, bottle cage) from flyxii
> fork RS SID RLT 2013
> ...


Love the build.

I was wondering how it handled under power? Does the rear suspension stay firm when peddling or under load but absorb impacts as it should?

How about money invested? Did you save any money putting it together yourself over buying an equally well equipped assembled bike?


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## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

hidperf said:


> I was wondering how it handled under power? Does the rear suspension stay firm when peddling or under load but absorb impacts as it should?


I don't even expected such a nice suspension work from a single pivot system. My weight ( 95kg) and negative chamber of shock allow to provide plush at small roughness, but air pressure in positive chamber and low bike weight gives reliable suspension play at large irregularity (stones, drops). Can't fill torsion impact. Big wheels with full suspension provide smooth downstairs ride 



hidperf said:


> How about money invested? Did you save any money putting it together yourself over buying an equally well equipped assembled bike?


 I hope it cheaper, can't compare because don't know direct competitors with such a light 29 wheels (wieght of wheels is very noticable with 29" size, in my case wheels cost a bit more expensive than frame). Firstly, it a fun to build own bike.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

Tried lowering the air pressure some more on mine on the weekend. It's getting really dry, dusty and loose here in Aus and I've been a bit nervous on the Flyxii, it gets a bit skittish in loose marble stuff.

Anyway lowered the front to 25psi and rear to 28, totally transformed the bike. Way more grip now, less snappy sliding that's hard to predict


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## rularn (Apr 27, 2011)

what do you guys this about this: 
2013 29er Carbon Bike,Carbon Complete Bike - Buy 29er Carbon Mountain Bike,Chinese Carbon 29er Bike,Cheap Carbon Fibre Mountain Bike Product on Alibaba.com
Full Carbon Fiber 29er Suspension Mountain Bike With Deore Xt 30-s Groupset - Buy 29er Carbon Mountain Bike,Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike,Shimano Transmission Mountain Bike Product on Alibaba.com

full build of a dual suspention 29er.

Can anybody see which frame it might be?


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## pomami (Dec 6, 2012)

This frame looks great, but the time and more reviews will confirm us if it is a good option to mount a cheap bike.


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

One more with pivoted monoshock.... Why not goes to horst link? 



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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

rularn said:


> what do you guys this about this:
> 2013 29er Carbon Bike,Carbon Complete Bike - Buy 29er Carbon Mountain Bike,Chinese Carbon 29er Bike,Cheap Carbon Fibre Mountain Bike Product on Alibaba.com
> Full Carbon Fiber 29er Suspension Mountain Bike With Deore Xt 30-s Groupset - Buy 29er Carbon Mountain Bike,Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike,Shimano Transmission Mountain Bike Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> ...


very interesting, i may get one of those frames later, i see they fixed the only thing that bothers me on the 2012 version, which is the rear suspension part that connects shock with the swing arm.

also the chinese logic is weird - full carbon bike, dt swiss suspension for maximum weight savings - and behold - steel rims? plus the paint / logos is fugly as always gimme my matte carbon.

me - i'm getting there, waiting for the xx1 crank + chain + shifter. january is it.


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## dereknz (May 3, 2011)

ypocat said:


> also the chinese logic is weird - full carbon bike, dt swiss suspension for maximum weight savings - and behold - steel rims? plus the paint / logos is fugly as always gimme my matte carbon.


It's a translation error, not steel they are DT Swiss X 470 29er Rims DT Swiss - X 470 29.

Full specs here Full carbon fiber 29er suspension mountain bike with Deore XT 30-S groupset,View 29er carbon mountain bike,Laplace Product Details from Shenzhen GUB Bike Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

dereknz said:


> It's a translation error, not steel they are DT Swiss X 470 29er Rims DT Swiss - X 470 29.
> 
> Full specs here Full carbon fiber 29er suspension mountain bike with Deore XT 30-S groupset,View 29er carbon mountain bike,Laplace Product Details from Shenzhen GUB Bike Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


OK, so aluminum, but why not one of those cheap (and lighter/stronger) chinese carbon rims? They probably got a good deal with DT swiss though (excluding hubs it seems).


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

but yeah, i'd be getting that one had it been on the market when i was looking for a carbon XC bike.. 4kg heavier aluminum 29er XC bikes start at +1k eur in eu shops..


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## cale399 (Oct 18, 2008)

*w/Lefty*

here is one my friend just finished....I want one now...even though I have not heard from him about how it rides....maybe he can take her out today or tomorrow (GA area has been raining...)
Since I don't really have the $$$ I'm thinking about taking everything except the shock off my Anthem and trying this carbon thing out


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2012)

interested to hear any ride reports, the angles seems good, trying to compared the wheelbase and seatstay length against similar frames but it all seems ok. Some real life feedback would be good, I already have a carbonal so i'm satisfied on quality of chinese frames


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

cale399 said:


> here is one my friend just finished....I want one now...even though I have not heard from him about how it rides....maybe he can take her out today or tomorrow (GA area has been raining...)
> Since I don't really have the $$$ I'm thinking about taking everything except the shock off my Anthem and trying this carbon thing out


with lefty _and_ xx1  i'm guessing sub 9kg (19.8lbs)?

could you make a frontal(-or-so) pic of the handlebar to show how the xx1 gripshift + the empty left side looks like?


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

Sub 9kilos.... With frame with more 2kg is a big challenge.... 

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## ali_g (Jul 16, 2011)

anyone from Singapore tried this frame?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

so while waiting for the xx1, i said f-it, and temporarily slapped an x5 crank and x9 rear derail + trigger on the bike for a 1x9 setup, and took it for a spin.

we have more than 300 sunny days a year here, this wasn't one of them. still, my last regular riding on an mtb bike was 10 years ago and it wasn't a carbon one, so this was hell of a fun.

the weight pic is with lights, tubes, bottle holder, garmin hodler+sensor - i will switch to tubeless once i settle with the tyre type - currently on furious freds as i'm mostly on roads, later will most prob put on racing ralphs. the 780mm 15mm riser bar feels just right for me - the bike handles extremely precise and feels very nimble, the classic 29er concerns were not confirmed.

i have fox talas on the front, can choose between 120mm and 100mm drive, haven't tried the 100mm yet, been riding it on middle trail CTD setting front and rear and did not feel a single bump on the road, and no bob on climbing. i think the fox and even the talas (vs float) is worth every extra gram it puts on the bike.

(on yeah, sorry for the **** quality pics, will do a proper photoshoot when the xx1 arrives)


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

taste of december's snow


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)




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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

LoAl said:


> taste of december's snow


haha. i tested the bike in 15km steep road ascent and 15km descent yesterday. in rain. at night. about 3m frontal visibility. big fun except the uncertainty of survival vs. freezing to death.

at one point during the descent i was convinced that my rear tyre must be running flat, i had the feeling that when i steer the bike a bit, the rear was floating from side to side. no idea why that was. could have been just how i perceived the bike due to my own fatigue at that time. at that area, garmin recorded the lowest temperature during the ride, 5ºC. but when i went out of the mountains and the temperature went back to about 8 or 9ºC, the bike felt normal again. i had the shock on trail (middle) setting all the way, and i haven't set the proper sag/rebound on it yet.

oh and i forgot to thank you LoAl for suggesting bikehardest for the shock bolts, they work a treat.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

You're welcome :thumbsup:


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Suggestion to MTBR: add a freaking CAPTCHA test before posting for posters with less than 10 posts. Let me know if you need to code it.


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## Ctarter (Aug 6, 2012)

I like this bike: winter downhill, snow and -23degree Celsium (really cold)


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Ctarter said:


> I like this bike: winter downhill, snow and -23degree Celsium (really cold)


damn!  :thumbsup:

i had a great ride today, 20km ascent, about 800m elevation gain, the descent was pure ecstasy.. pumped my tires to 60psi, everything is sweet now.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

i like how the matte carbon weave is not visible under a bit dimmer light conditions.

also from this angle the beauty of the frame really stands out.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

ypocat said:


> i like how the matte carbon weave is not visible under a bit dimmer light conditions.
> 
> also from this angle the beauty of the frame really stands out.


That looks Gorgeous, I have the Matt on my HT, and now seeing yours i wish i had the Matt in the Full suss too. 
But i'm not unhappy with the way mine looks :thumbsup:


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

do any of these beauties have 120mm of squish? Also, if you order from flyxi do you need to buy any special mounting hardware? And what is the consensus on the pivots. Is there anything that needs to be done to them other than adding lube? 
thanx in advance


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I ordered from Flyxii, just normal 20mm shock bushings that should come with your shock is fine and easily fitted, also the pivots are really good and are holding up to the crap weather over here fine! 

I use 120mm forks on mine, it has 110mm at the rear so the ride is spot on.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

thnx vwsurfbum. If I get a fox rp23 what tunes should I use? If I get one of these frames I'll post pictures when I build it up. Just need to save up for a little while. I'm glad all you guys like these.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Rp23 would be ideal! Start saving then start beating!!!


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

think anyone could convince them to come out with a 130mm horst -link 29er (specialized stumpjumper anyone?) that would be great. $800 Chinese or $3000 marked-up Chinese.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I know this is off-topic, but if anyone here likes working with their hands, they can make a custom carbon Hardtail frame for themselves.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

It isn't so hard but does take a long time.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

sorry but I need to post 4 more times before I can post a link


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

it is really cool building a frame it is even better to ride one.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I am building a frame using his first method, but the second is much better and I will make one soon.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

he uses it for a road frame but it can easily be used with a mtb frame. Last post thank god


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Carbon Fiber Z Frame Bike
you can also try this one though its not as good:
How I built a carbon bike frame at home (and a bamboo frame too)
these are great projects. Sorry about all the posts, I just wanted to give you all the links in case yo were interested.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

vwsurfbum said:


> That looks Gorgeous, I have the Matt on my HT, and now seeing yours i wish i had the Matt in the Full suss too.
> But i'm not unhappy with the way mine looks :thumbsup:


ha, i've seen one guy one the street with the chinese HT glossy frame and it was very stylish... i guess we all like/want/prefer what we don't currently have

okkkaayy.. XX1 installed on le machine! (see pic)

guys btw, i got some bad rep for cursing about not receiving xx1 months after i ordered it - if you could give we me some positive rep (only if you think i deserve it of course), i'd be thankful


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I'd give ya rep for begging for rep, but it wouldn't be positive, and that wouldn't be nice, so I'll just hold off on that. 

Interesting to hear the story about the XX1 supply. SRAM rep told me that they shipped only 200 sets for Nov, and planned to double that each month (400 units in Dec and 800 in January). They said that demand exceeded their expectations, so I guess things like waiting over a month can happen, especially when you consider these are #s of units shipped globally. Wonder if that includes OEM sets, for selling as part of a complete bike. I know even the pros were having trouble getting cassettes and RDs.

I've seen some others on "chinese carbon FS 29ers", but apparently this design is open mold and they're not created equally. They insisted that theirs was higher quality than some of the no name ones, with more carefully engineered layup and material choice and a more refined manufacturing process.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> I'd give ya rep for begging for rep, but it wouldn't be positive, and that wouldn't be nice, so I'll just hold off on that.
> 
> Interesting to hear the story about the XX1 supply. SRAM rep told me that they shipped only 200 sets for Nov, and planned to double that each month (400 units in Dec and 800 in January). They said that demand exceeded their expectations, so I guess things like waiting over a month can happen, especially when you consider these are #s of units shipped globally. Wonder if that includes OEM sets, for selling as part of a complete bike. I know even the pros were having trouble getting cassettes and RDs.
> 
> I've seen some others on "chinese carbon FS 29ers", but apparently this design is open mold and they're not created equally. They insisted that theirs was higher quality than some of the no name ones, with more carefully engineered layup and material choice and a more refined manufacturing process.


xx1 - interesting - I'm sure that's without the OEM numbers and that's probably where they underestimated the demand mostly. I can imagine SRAM giving preference to bike manufacturers over end consumers since good business relations are important to keep up. Still, it could have been so different if simply SRAM issued a statement that they can't keep up with the demand and the delays are so and so. I'd simply be riding XO or XX since September in that case, instead of being disappointed over and over as the delivery dates kept shifting forward.

Open mold - yeah - I have posted (it's in my gallery) a serial number of my frame (that pic got about zillion hits, wondering where'd been linked to) - I'd like to know more of its origins, what factory is it from etc., but I guess that won't be possible to find out. I haven't got mine from Hong Fu or the other brand (can't remember name now), I have got mine from Baixiang Bike - this may either be a different factory or simply e.g. a Hong-Fu reseller, but I don't know. The frame is perfect so far, the rear suspension pivot was a bit problematic and still has a bit of play in it, but nothing that would be hurting performance or good feeling of the bike.

p.s. well I guess you had to call it begging - I'd say I was simply asking nicely the people in this thread that I was previously interacting with. The bad rep I want to ged rid of I have gotten for cursing where: 1. I self-censored the words with the "*" character, 2. I had a very good reason for expressing discontent. Not really a reason for having negative rep, that's it. It's not like I'm hoarding good rep or something. End of rant

peace


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## Kiwi19 (Jun 23, 2008)

Has anyone had any problems with the rear dropouts? They look like they a full carbon - any compression of the carbon at the top of the dropout where axle rests against the dropout?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I've had no issue?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Kiwi19 said:


> Has anyone had any problems with the rear dropouts? They look like they a full carbon - any compression of the carbon at the top of the dropout where axle rests against the dropout?


haven't noticed when i was removing the wheel or putting it back - there's an aluminum insert and my thru-bolt caps leave a mark on it, but nothing out of ordinary.

can take a pic next time i remove the wheel, but hopefully that's won't be too soon

this is a high quality frame apart from the rear suspension link part i mentioned before, but nobody else has complained about that here. (actually i just wrote to the seller to send me a new one.)

-----

here's a vid from the bike i shot on saturday: Big Souda Hill solo attack v2, Chania, Crete - YouTube (be kind, i'm just getting into it, and all that)


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

vwsurfbum- nice custom chain guide. Is that just a panel of cf that you cut to make a back plate 4 the guide? Wicked cool.
ypocat- sweet vid. It looks beautiful there.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes it was kind of, I used it while I had it set up single ring but I went back to a double and bash as I was hitting more gnarly stuff.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

does anyone know if there are any rear triangles on the market that have a 142x12 rear axle that could fit this frame?
also btw, Nancy at light bicycle said that they would try to produce a thru-axle full suss frame!!!


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

xc biker said:


> does anyone know if there are any rear triangles on the market that have a 142x12 rear axle that could fit this frame?
> also btw, Nancy at light bicycle said that they would try to produce a thru-axle full suss frame!!!


Doubt it, as there's a great deal of asymmetry going on: Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er photo from the Mtbr Mountain Bike Photo Gallery

On the rear I'm running a DT Swiss 240 hub 135x10 with a through-bolt conversion, had to do it to fit the XD cassette for XX1, works fine.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

*New build / cracked seat post*

Figured I would add on my new build. It came in at 24 lbs, 5 oz. I was hoping for under 24, but that's ok. First pic is the bike (yeah, wrong side, I know). It comes with 2013 Fox CTD remote front and back. I love it! So simple and awesome!

Only problem, I bought the frame from Flyxii, and picked up an FSA seatpost as well. It needed a 31.6, but it was hard to get in. Anyway, the second pic is the result of that from a race this past Saturday. Cracked the seat post in half. And I'm only 150 lbs!

Regardless, a prior post was asking about bob. There is no bob at all in climb mode with this suspension. I'm very pleased.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

Not sure where the bike pic went. I'll try again.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

brianlancast said:


> Figured I would add on my new build. It came in at 24 lbs, 5 oz. I was hoping for under 24, but that's ok. First pic is the bike (yeah, wrong side, I know). It comes with 2013 Fox CTD remote front and back. I love it! So simple and awesome!
> 
> Only problem, I bought the frame from Flyxii, and picked up an FSA seatpost as well. It needed a 31.6, but it was hard to get in. Anyway, the second pic is the result of that from a race this past Saturday. Cracked the seat post in half. And I'm only 150 lbs!
> 
> Regardless, a prior post was asking about bob. There is no bob at all in climb mode with this suspension. I'm very pleased.


Looking great! Care to post a handlebar pic with all those remotes? I did not got into remote CTD because of the huge levers and all the extra wires. Not missing it that much either - but if they come out with iCD which does full 3 settings (C,T and D) front and back, I'll convert or upgrade.

Great you did not crack the frame but just the seatpost, I assume you used torque key etc.. I'm running crank brothers cobalt 11 seatpost (also stem and bar), so far fine. Was thinking about the stealth dropper post from rock shock, but I really like the bike's simplicity as is.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

go 4 the dropper post. Supposed to be amazing. But does the frame have a hole that you could put the reverb stealth hose through?drilling might not be the best, and would probably void the warranty.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I use a dropper post on mine, I route the cable through where the internal cable for the rear shock would go if using the Scott remote and shock. 
Dropper posts are a must!!! Have them on all my bikes


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

xc biker said:


> go 4 the dropper post. Supposed to be amazing. But does the frame have a hole that you could put the reverb stealth hose through?drilling might not be the best, and would probably void the warranty.


I was thinking to route the hose inside the frame - there is a space above the BB inside the tube where the hose can go, then it can exit the frame through one of the cabling holes near the head tube - if it's long enough. Alternatively it could go through the top tube, but I guess the seatpost inserts deeper than that, plus it would be a killer angle for the hydro hose.



vwsurfbum said:


> I use a dropper post on mine, I route the cable through where the internal cable for the rear shock would go if using the Scott remote and shock.
> Dropper posts are a must!!! Have them on all my bikes


Ha, I'm missing a dropper post sometimes on steep dirt-road descents, and sometimes when I just feel like doing stupid things on the bike. At some point I'm sure I'll get one

-----

Decided to try out the Flickr embedding, here goes:


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks awesome! Propper envyfor the forks and shock! 

Those forks are about £700 over here, which would work out about $1200!!! So not bought any.....yet


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

vwsurfbum said:


> Looks awesome! Propper envyfor the forks and shock!
> 
> Those forks are about £700 over here, which would work out about $1200!!! So not bought any.....yet


yep these add some expense _and_ weight, but the talas in front is like having 2 bikes in 1 (120mm and 100mm drive). I'm sure a dropper post adds a few more "bikes" to that

but honestly, if I was low on money at the time, I'd just grab a dt-swiss fork/shock in a sale, and I'm sure the enjoyment level would be like 99.99% close to what it's now.

but this being my return to mountain biking after 10 years, I said screw it, let's go for the best (where it makes at least some sense)...


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

DT swiss!!! almost as much as FOX LOL i have them on my other bike, My Recons are good enough, just would like the adjustable travel.

Not sure what the next upgrade is?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

vwsurfbum said:


> DT swiss!!! almost as much as FOX LOL i have them on my other bike, My Recons are good enough, just would like the adjustable travel.
> 
> Not sure what the next upgrade is?


yep actually it probably was RockShox, I got it mixed up

as an upgrade I was also thinking to try clipless (egg beaters), but I grew up on flats and they just don't bother me enough I guess


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I ride with both clips and flats, I use candy C's as there cheap and reasonably light but dont last too long in the mud. 
Unless racing, i'm not too convinced of the benefits, but i do like the feeling of attached to the bike.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I've read this thread from the beginning and have been following it with great interest. I'm in the market for a new dual-suspension 29er and have been looking at the Epic Comp. I know the Epic is "the king" in it's class, but do any of you that built these have any direct comparisons for them? Maybe owned an Epic at one time and built this?

I'm just not impressed with the components that come with the Epic. I've priced it out and I can build one of these with X0 drivetrain, XTR brakes, and carbon tubeless wheels for less that the Epic Comp with wheels.


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## The Dead Horse (Jan 2, 2013)

I was really tempted by these frames too but like a few other have pointed out here, when i do my sums these frames actually don't work out significantly lighter or cheaper than a quality hydroformed aluminium frame like the Anthem. Maybe 100g lighter but that would be it, and i think the equivalent aluminium framed bikes have slightly superior suspension designs. This will all change. Personally, i reckon everybody will be riding chinese carbonfibre frames within 5-10 years.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Depends where you are, the frames are about a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the price of the equivalent big brand name like specialized or transition santa cruz etc. 

Buying frame only definitely comes at a premium here in England


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Depends where you are, the frames are about a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the price of the equivalent big brand name like specialized or transition santa cruz etc. 

Buying frame only definitely comes at a premium here in England


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

Sorry in advanced..


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

But is this frame comparable to the scott spark?


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

Have to post five times.. Been looking into this frame.


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

Was wondering if it was worth the investment


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

Considering the re-sell value..


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Re sale value doesn't come into it imho, 

As for the frame it is very similar to the Scott 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## LB412 (Nov 28, 2012)

When purchasing this frame you are supporting the knock off of Scott's innovation... Bike companies already work on very low margins relative to volume. If you allow the knock offs to gain market share you are inadvertently reducing performance R&D... Which = slower progress


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## Davidg531 (Feb 21, 2013)

That's what I figured.. I didn't want to assume it was a knock off. But looking at the similarities and quality for a such a low price. I guess it's pretty obvious. Thanks for the input.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

LB412 said:


> When purchasing this frame you are supporting the knock off of Scott's innovation... Bike companies already work on very low margins relative to volume. If you allow the knock offs to gain market share you are inadvertently reducing performance R&D... Which = slower progress





Davidg531 said:


> That's what I figured.. I didn't want to assume it was a knock off. But looking at the similarities and quality for a such a low price. I guess it's pretty obvious. Thanks for the input.


Are All Carbon Bikes Created Equal? | Cycling Tips -- section "Open Mold Frames".

It's not a knock-off. It's not that difficult to design a bicycle frame these days, using computers and all that.

Also interesting: Gallery: Swift Carbon: Inside A High-end Chinese Bike Factory - BikeRadar

Btw I think many people (incl. me) would love to buy this frame from a local reseller, if their margin wasn't like 50% (or more, don't remember the price of those italian guys).

We can't save the local bike manufacturers by not buying bikes from China, the same way we can't save lambs by not eating lamb meat. There always will be plenty of people doing it. It's the system which is screwed. Question, why is everything made in China. Who allowed that to happen in the first place, and why.

Peace.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

ypocat said:


> Are All Carbon Bikes Created Equal? | Cycling Tips -- section "Open Mold Frames".
> 
> It's not a knock-off. It's not that difficult to design a bicycle frame these days, using computers and all that.
> 
> ...


FRM are the Italian company reselling this bike at mental money 
but then again their normal stuff is mental money
Home
but after a quick look looks like theyve given up selling it for £4k!!!!!


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## rjones06 (Mar 21, 2008)

so how are these holding up?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Mine is still hitting all the trails, jumps and drops.pedals well up hill, and fast on the way down too. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I finally ordered one of these frames... 19" in 3k matte with BB30 bottom bracket.
I'm planning to build it with a Manitou Radium shock that I bought second hand for peanuts.
Really looking forward to tuning the rear suspension to my liking, so I can ride "les Chemins du Soleil" in comfort


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Excellent! 

Where did you order it from?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

vwsurfbum said:


> Excellent!
> 
> Where did you order it from?


I ordered it from Flyxii.com, because they were simply the cheapest... I hope they come through for me


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I finally ordered one of these frames... 19" in 3k matte with BB30 bottom bracket.
> I'm planning to build it with a Manitou Radium shock that I bought second hand for peanuts.
> Really looking forward to tuning the rear suspension to my liking, so I can ride "les Chemins du Soleil" in comfort


Keep us updated on the build. I'm really interested in doing one of these myself. Still weighing the pros and cons between this build or buying an Epic Comp.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

two-one said:


> I ordered it from Flyxii.com, because they were simply the cheapest... I hope they come through for me


I ordered 2 fron them, free postage makes a huge difference and quick to respond.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Quick question on measurements for these bikes.

I've put my measurements into the Competitive Cyclist web site and came back with a virtual top tube recommendation of 612-622. Is that measurement A on the Flyxi web site? FLYXI
I'm assuming that a 19" frame would be correct then?


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

hidperf said:


> Quick question on measurements for these bikes.
> 
> I've put my measurements into the Competitive Cyclist web site and came back with a virtual top tube recommendation of 612-622. Is that measurement A on the Flyxi web site? FLYXI
> I'm assuming that a 19" frame would be correct then?


Yep, that's the one


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I finally ordered one of these frames... 19" in 3k matte with BB30 bottom bracket.
> I'm planning to build it with a Manitou Radium shock that I bought second hand for peanuts.
> Really looking forward to tuning the rear suspension to my liking, so I can ride "les Chemins du Soleil" in comfort


Is the BB30 standard on this frame? I didn't see any option when ordering on their site for size, finish, or bottom bracket. Or do you place the order and then they contact you about options?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

hidperf said:


> Is the BB30 standard on this frame? I didn't see any option when ordering on their site for size, finish, or bottom bracket. Or do you place the order and then they contact you about options?


I just asked... we'll see whether they come through, I'm still waiting for the package.


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## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

hidperf said:


> Is the BB30 standard on this frame? I didn't see any option when ordering on their site for size, finish, or bottom bracket. Or do you place the order and then they contact you about options?


They can do threaded or BB30

I contacted flyxii prior to ordering, and also noted the frame requirements in the comments section of the order


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Timbo83 said:


> They can do threaded or BB30
> 
> I contacted flyxii prior to ordering, and also noted the frame requirements in the comments section of the order


I accidentally placed an order with them while trying to find out if they had a spot in their order form to choose options. But they did get back to me today about the bottom bracket options.

So, now I need to decide on some things. Most important would be bottom bracket. BSA looks much easier to install over BB30, but BB30 is supposed to be stronger I guess? I have a press and I've also seen where people have used threaded rod and washers to install the BB30 bearings.

I know the subject has been covered a million times so I don't expect a huge debate, but is one better for MTB builds over the other? I have FSA Mega Exo on my road bike and it seems to work just fine. Are cranks pretty much available in both types? I plan on using X0 or one of the FSA options on this build.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Another question on these frames and build ups. 

Have any of you ran the Monarch XX? Even if it wasn't on this particular frame, what was your impression of it?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I ordered it from Flyxii.com, because they were simply the cheapest... I hope they come through for me


Well they are out of the bb30 19" frame at the time. Although he mentioned gloss 3k. And I'm not set on gloss or 3k. I think I'll see if they have any others in stock, otherwise it will be 50 days before its available.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

ypocat said:


> On the rear I'm running a DT Swiss 240 hub 135x10 with a through-bolt conversion, had to do it to fit the XD cassette for XX1, works fine.


I'm assuming you're using the DT Swiss RWS 10mm thought-bolt conversion? Is there anything special or any modifications needed to doing this or do you just buy the RWS conversion, slide it through, and tighten it down?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

hidperf said:


> I'm assuming you're using the DT Swiss RWS 10mm thought-bolt conversion? Is there anything special or any modifications needed to doing this or do you just buy the RWS conversion, slide it through, and tighten it down?


I assume you aren't talking about the XX1 mod as well, in which case yes that's pretty much what I remember doing.

Well you need to remove the QR caps from the hub first. No tools needed but the Park Tool Axle vise holder comes very handy - DT Swiss also bundles it into their 240s hub maintenance toolkit.

Park Tool Co. » AV-1 : Axle Vise : Hub & Axles

EDIT: oh yeah, make sure to buy the actual Axle as well, I got mine from DT Swiss too.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

ypocat said:


> I assume you aren't talking about the XX1 mod as well, in which case yes that's pretty much what I remember doing.
> 
> Well you need to remove the QR caps from the hub first. No tools needed but the Park Tool Axle vise holder comes very handy - DT Swiss also bundles it into their 240s hub maintenance toolkit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

So if i already have 15mm thru-axle hubs, all I should need is the RWS conversion?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

hidperf said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> So if i already have 15mm thru-axle hubs, all I should need is the RWS conversion?


Sounds right but grab the PDF from here and make 100% sure: DT Swiss - Conversion kits


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm going to run SRAM X0 group on this and I'm having trouble figuring out which front derailleur I need to buy. 

2x10
24/38 with bash guard

From what I've read on here, I need a low direct mount, bottom pull. Possibly the S3 type? But will running the 2x10 with bash guard have any bearing on the derailleur? 

S1 = 42.7mm 2-bolt
S3 = 22.1mm 2-bolt

The only drawing I could find showed 22.7mm so I'm guessing S3 is close enough. So with the S3, low direct mount, bottom pull, 14T capacity I would need SRAM part number 00.7615.177.010 according to BTI-usa.com 
Sound right? If not, please explain why so I know what I figured wrong.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

hidperf said:


> I'm going to run SRAM X0 group on this and I'm having trouble figuring out which front derailleur I need to buy.
> 
> 2x10
> 24/38 with bash guard
> ...


It's OK!


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## Dibbs_ (Feb 17, 2009)

.....................................................


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

LoAl said:


> It's OK!


Awesome. Thanks.

I just got my tracking number today. Everything except tires and tubeless materials has been ordered. It's gonna be like Christmas for the next month around here.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

installed 36T xx1 ring, and swapped the formula rotors for ice techs XTR (203mm on front) = whoa!


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Just curious since I haven't seen it mentioned in here. 

Has anyone tried the carbon stems, seat post, bottle cages, or handlebars from flxyii or anyone else?

I picked up all of the above while I placed the order. Can't imagine I'm the only one though.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Only the bottle cage as the the stems are heavy, bars are too thin and I use a dropper post.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

hidperf said:


> Just curious since I haven't seen it mentioned in here.
> 
> Has anyone tried the carbon stems, seat post, bottle cages, or handlebars from flxyii or anyone else?
> 
> I picked up all of the above while I placed the order. Can't imagine I'm the only one though.


i was buying from baixiang bike, ordered carbon saddle and bottle cage only.

saddle did not fit my cobalt11 seatpost (had the road rectangular tubes, and i could not get the adapter for the cobalt11 anywhere), also looked really hard on the ass - so i ordered tioga spyder saddle from crc and am very happy with it.

the bottle cage i did not use because for this frame a side-loading bottle cage is much better fit, so i got a carbon one from crc as well ("sidekick").

oh yeah i also ordered carbon bars but max width is 660, which i realized is funny, and went with cobalt 11 780(?) i think. the max one.

but in general i think except the points above, the chinese stuff is top quality... and if i went for minimal weight, i'd have probably have look for the combined stem/bar carbon single-mold component they also sell there somewhere.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> Only the bottle cage as the the stems are heavy, bars are too thin and I use a dropper post.





ypocat said:


> i was buying from baixiang bike, ordered carbon saddle and bottle cage only.
> 
> saddle did not fit my cobalt11 seatpost (had the road rectangular tubes, and i could not get the adapter for the cobalt11 anywhere), also looked really hard on the ass - so i ordered tioga spyder saddle from crc and am very happy with it.
> 
> ...


I'm hoping they will be as good in quality as these frames appear to be. The stem I ordered was the FLX-ST-005 in 100mm which, in the picture, actually has a 3T end on it. So I'm curious if they actually make the parts for 3T or just stole it. :nono:

I also ordered their FLX-HB-020 riser bars in 660mm, their FLX-HB-021 flat bars in 620mm, their FLX-SP-006 seat post, and 4 of their FLX-CG-028 side loader bottle cages. I bought 4 because three of my friends just bought Specialized Epic 29ers and knew that the regular top loading cages didn't work with them.

As of Friday, my frame and components are in customs in San Fransisco. I have no idea when they're get to St. Louis though. Other parts have started rolling in already. I'll post some pictures and weights when I get time. Still no word on my wheels yet, but I don't expect them to ship for another week maybe.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

8 days from the time I got my tracking number until it showed up in my hands today. 

I'd say that's pretty good.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Look forward to seeing pictures.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> Look forward to seeing pictures.


I'll put some up as soon as I can. In the middle of switching careers right now and things are a little hectic.

If anyone wants to check out my blog of the build, it's here. Full suspension, open-mold, Chinese carbon fiber 29er build | Join me on my first bike build


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

As of now, I have everything on it's way that I can work with until I get the wheels. I'm trying to decide on which tires I should get. I live in the midwest (Missouri) and our trails are anything from rocks/roots, to gravel, to leave everywhere. I try to avoid riding in mud if at all possible. I was thinking of the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 up front and the 2.25 in the rear. I've also read a few people recommend other Maxxis tires in the rear. 

I don't race anyone but myself and my buddies, for bragging rights, always off-road, fire roads, etc. No around town use. 

If it makes any difference on the recommendation, we're also doing the San Juan Hut tour in July, from Durango to Moab, but I'm sure the terrain is completely different out there than in Missouri.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hidpert, the blog looks interesting, I will give it a read. Lots of opinions on tires, go over to the 29er components forum and check out some of those discussions.

Anyone else building a FS Chinese Carbon 29er? I'm getting ready to order my frame and am having a tough time making up my mind between FS and HT.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

hidperf-nice blog. It was a good read, why did you go with such high end/expensive components for your 1st mtb build?
epic_dude- your choice mainly depends on the terrain you ride and the level of comfort that you want. If you ride rough terrain or want more comfort, go with fs. If you ride smooth trails or don't care about the trails beating you up, go with the hardtail because of the weight savings


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> hidpert, the blog looks interesting, I will give it a read. Lots of opinions on tires, go over to the 29er components forum and check out some of those discussions.


Yeah, it's impossible to find any really solid choices on tires because they're probably the biggest variable on the bike when it comes to where you're located, what type of terrain you ride, how aggressive you ride, etc. I've read everything I could on this forum and others about tires, and for every paragraph I read, I found a different suggestion on what people run and why.
It's probably just going to be a trial and error thing on this build.



xc biker said:


> hidperf-nice blog. It was a good read, why did you go with such high end/expensive components for your 1st mtb build?


Well, originally I was going to just buy a Specialized Epic Comp 29er but I couldn't justify the price vs. components that came with it. And I really wanted the Epic Expert, which was about twice the price if I remember correctly.

I've wanted to build one of these Chinese carbon bikes ever since I started reading about them in the road bike forums; I just got a road bike last year and that bug bit me hard. Once my buddies and I started riding regularly and getting in shape last year for the Durango to Moad ride coming up, I realized my old MTB had to be replace and I just felt I could equip a bike with higher end components for less than or equal too what I would have spent on a Carbon Comp 29er.

So after reading though this thread a couple times and some serious price shopping and spreadsheets full of info, I decided to build a MTB instead of a road bike. My roadie is only a year old and in great shape still, but my MTB is from 1999 and trashed.

Out of the group of five guys who I ride with, two bought Epic Comps, one bought a Comp Carbon, one hasn't bought yet, and I'm building mine. Minus the tires and tubeless stuff, I've got less than the price of the Comp Carbon invested in my build. And the Comp Carbon owner put different tires on his and a used X0 crankset he picked up from a buddy who went XX1, so I think I'll still come in under his total investment.

I just can't wait until it all gets here so I can ride it!:thumbsup:

Edit: I just put a ton of pictures up in an album on here if anyone wants to view them. Eventually I'll put together a post on here about the build.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Started the assembly tonight but didn't get very far. Took all the pivots apart and greased them and it moves WAY better now, as expected. Put the BB30 bearings in and the non-drive side crank arm, then installed the front derailleur before putting the drive side arm on. As I feared, the front derailleur I bought won't work with the crankset I bought. I knew that bash guard would be a problem. 

So now I have no idea what X0 front derailleur I need. 

Do I need one for a 3 chainring setup so it will clear the bash guard? 

The crankset I have is a 00.6115.423.170
The front derailleur I have is 00.7615.177.010, which won't work.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Rode a Scott Spark 950 today which is the bike the FS Chiner is modeled after. The bike was just a bit too plush for me, I felt as though I was loosing too much of my effort just pedaling on flat pavement. We even pumped the shock up to 150psi. I'm sure if I locked out the rear shock it would have been more to my liking. Guess I'm not too fond of the bit bob you get on a FS. The bike did well over bumps and small drops though and I'm sure it would be much easier on my back and knees.

I also tried the Scott Scale 930 Carbon, which is like the FM056 hard tail. This bike felt much better to me, no effort lost and it rode over bumps nicely. I just felt more *in* the bike than *on* the bike. However I wasn't crazy about the SRAM shifters though, I favor the Shimano style, although I also like the idea of the Grip shifters.

Looks like I'll continue with my build plan using the IP-057 hard tail frame, although a good used Specialized Epic is not entirely out of the question for me, I like the idea of having the best of both worlds.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

@hidperf - I run Schwalbe Furious Freds in tubeless, lately on the softer side, 18-19 psi rear, sufficient grip on anything non-mud, and gloriously absent rolling resistance, and lack of sound on asphalt. Can't imagine putting tractor tires on this mustang anymore.

@Epic_Dude - if this bike was modeled after anything, then it's more bikes, not just the Scott Spark. The Spark has completely different downtube/headtube/front tire clearance, and ones that I like a lot less. There is a designer of this frame out there somewhere, but they probably think it's better for the business if all the licensees of that open mold say they designed it themselves. Just my opinion anyway.


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## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

Hi there, here's mine that I purcahsed from Flyxii.
It arrived very quickly (I'm in Australia) and was well packed. I had to pull it apart to see what the pivots and stuff were like, as a former Titus owner I wasn't going to even bother building it if the pivots were not aligned like a Titus. Anyway I was surprised that all of the pivots were ball bearings and aligned very well. The only adjustment I made was grease and some .9mm spacers in the lower main pivot where the chainstay mount was rubbing on the seatpost pivot. This fixed it up, smooth as butter.
It's been built with an X0 2x10 groupset except for the front der which is an XTR, my direct mount Sram X0 wouldn't fit, different bolt holes. Other components are T40 carbon bars, Monarch XX shock, SID RT3 forks and it's got mismatched wheels while I wait for my 135x10 hub kit for my TWE carbons. It weighs in a just over 10kg's so I'm pretty happy with that.

The good
It's super stiff and rides well, I think I may have to change from mid to high tune on the Monarch because it bobs pretty hard with 215psi in the shock with the lockout off. Fairly compliant over the rough stuff, but it's not a plush ride at all. Having said that the shock has less than 50km on it, so it certainly isn't broken in.

The bad
The cable routing is a dog's breakfast, and the location for the remote to go through the frame doesn't work at all with the Monarch XX. I don't like the rear mech cable being clamped under the down tube and looped under the BB, so I'm going to change that when I can find the cable clamps I'm looking for.
I found my 17.5 a bit small, I'm 5'10 with short legs but it's smaller than my Paragon by a fair margin.
I don't love the rear brake config, but it doesn't brake jack at all so I can live with that, it's just a hassle to take the rear wheel on and off without scratching the carbon with the rotor.
Doesn't come painted, but that's not really bad I suppose.
I also purchased a 350mm carbon seatpost from Flyxii, it was sh!t. Too short, flexy and a very poor seat clamp. I'll just order another Thomson from CRC. Needs a 400mm seat post minimum.


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## bowseruni (Jun 17, 2012)

How much did your build up cost? trying to determine if these work out any cheaper than buying a good secondhand low km bike


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

@Komdotkom - nice writeup. I run Fox CTD front and rear, normally both in the trail setting, normal sag, but with a lot more relaxed (more damped) rebound, more on the plushy/limo side, but when on the trail setting, the bike never bobs when pushing in the sitting position. In standing position it bobs a bit, but I'm finding myself never riding in standing position anymore, unlike when I was a lot younger. I guess I learned to conserve my energy. The point is that in the descend setting (fully open) I don't really feel the trail, it just glides over it.

And yeah for you height I guess I'd go with the 19" frame, although I see you compensate with higher and back-bent seatpost and a somewhat longer stem. On the other hand, I'm guessing the smaller frame makes the bike a bit more nimble.

Nice bike!


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Guys, just a question. The central rear suspension component which joins the seat/chain-stays with the rear shock - I think the proper name for it is the "control link" - the hole for the shock is supposed to be 8mm in diameter, but when measured, it has about 8.3mm. The result of that is that when I pick the bike up, it makes a clack sound as the shock bolt moves in that hole up and down. Are any of you experiencing that as well?

It doesn't matter when you ride since the shock is always compressed (so the 8mm bolt does not move in the 8.3mm hole) and/or if you jump there's plenty of other noise around, but it's still something that slightly bothers me on this bike.

There initially also were other problems with this control link component, but I asked the seller for a replacement which I received and it's pretty good, except the shock bolt hole is still drilled way too generously. So I'm guessing yours is probably the same.


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## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah I've got the same problem with the control link ypocat. I initially thought it was the RWC needle bearings on the shock, but it's not.
I'm going to make a hardened steel sleeve, and re drill the link to 10mm to accommodate a 1mm wall thickness.
With regard to the sizing, I've got a 19" Gary Fisher that's too big for me so going by the sizing this should be very close to a 17.5 Trek/Fisher. Some of the problem was the seat adjustment, I guess I'll just keep playing with the setup until it feels right.
Cost, well the frame was $700 and the shock was $300. I had everything else, but an XO groupset is about $1,000, $600 for the forks and you can get reasonable wheels for $400.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

@Komdotkom - thanks man, good to see it confirmed it's not an isolated problem that only I have. Also interesting thinking to solve it by drilling to be able to insert the sleeve. Some time ago I tried to make a sleeve from an aluminum can, but this material is both too thick (0.1mm needed, without drilling) and way too soft. So my next plan was to drill the control-link to 9mm and get a larger shock adapter, but I just discovered they only make 8mm (Bike24 - Fox Racing Shox Hardware Kit (Bushings) 8mm), however the core is aluminum, so it may be drillable to 9mm as well, so I guess I will try that first.

I guess this problem can be also somewhat alleviated by tightening this problematic joint to a higher degree, so that the bolt stops flying in the hole freely, but I don't like this kind of solutions at all - it's the shock itself which should be damping the suspension, not the shock bolt/joint.


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## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

You should be able to buy a 10mm OD sleeve from a bearing wholesaler fairly cheaply then bore the centre out with a lathe. Then just epoxy it in with something like West Systems epoxy or even shrink fit it then ream it in situ for a nice tight fit.
I ordered my new set post today, got a 410mm Thomson Elite. It's going to add another 30g, but more than worth it for the piece of mind. Every bike I own has a Thomson post, not the lightest but certainly the most reliable.
I've got another ride booked in for tomorrow night, I should be able to sort out most of the setup issues then.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Donna591 said:


> Will replacement bearings be available? Pretty important.


I took apart the linkage on my frame, and also noticed the use of ordinary steelcapped bearings, so I'll be changing them for Enduro MAX 2RS bearings in the near future... until that time a layer of grease will have to suffice. That, and as little cleaning as possible to avoid water contamination 
I noticed the following bearings: 4x 6901 (main triangle connecting pivots), and 4x689 (pivots connecting the seatstays).

And @Komdotkom and @ypocat, the knocking between the shock and "control" link... that shouldn't be possible, even with an oversized 8mm hole. That's because the bolt should not carry the forces itself, but it should tighten the shock adapter against the carbon controllink, and the friction where those two touch should be able to convey the forces, the bolt only holds everything together, is it tightened properly? Or maybe the bolt bottoms out? Then filing the bolt-rod a little should help it, or maybe place a spacer below the bolt.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

bowseruni said:


> How much did your build up cost? trying to determine if these work out any cheaper than buying a good secondhand low km bike


If you're comparing a pre-owned bike to building a new from scratch, it's no comparison. The pre-owned is a much better deal, if you can find the exact bike you want. What started my whole build was a bidding war on eBay for an Epic Expert I wanted. It was the EXACT bike I wanted but I had a budget and it went beyond what I was prepared to spend at that time.

If you're comparing buying a new one to building one from scratch, I'd say you can build a better equipped bike for less money. Obviously your preference of rear suspension style, frame geometry, etc. are going to decide if this is a better bike overall.

That being said, I will have about $4,200 in my bike when it's completed. That's starting with nothing and buying every part needed for the build, but not including things like the Stans no-tube sealer, brake fluid, shock fluid, or any tools or maintenance items. I chose to build instead of buy because I wanted to outfit the bike the way I wanted AND I wanted the experience of building the complete bike myself.

Here's a list of what I bought:
Flxyii 17.5" frame
Flxyii seat post
Flxyii seat post clamp
Flxyii 100mm stem
Flxyii side entry bottle cage
Flxyii 660mm raised bars
Flxyii carbon stem spacer kit
Neco headset
Light Bicycle wide carbon 29er wheels with 881/882 hubs
SRAM X0 24/38/Bash crankset
SRAM BB30 bottom bracket bearings
SRAM X0 Type 2 long rear derailleur
SRAM X0 front derailleur
SRAM X0 2x10 trigger shifters
SRAM XG-1080 11-36 rear cassette
Shimano M785 front and rear brakes
Shimano 160mm IceTech rear rotor
Shimano 180mm IceTech front rotor
Shimano 1800mm front caliper spacer
RockShox SID XX front fork with 15mm Mxlite axle and XLoc remote
RockShox Monarch XX 6.5x1.5 rear shock
RWC front and rear needle bearing kit for rear shock
DTSwiss 10x135 rear axle kit
KMC X10.93 chain
Jagwire Mountain Pro braided cable kit
Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and 2.25 rear tires
Stans rim tape and valve stems

Oh, I did have a saddle and grips from an old bike I'm using for now.

Was it worth it and would I do it again? If I had won the auction on that Epic, I would have been happy with that. But since I didn't, I'm happy with my invested money and with my invested time. I haven't gotten to ride it yet, so I can't comment on the outcome of the bike.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

ypocat said:


> @Epic_Dude - if this bike was modeled after anything, then it's more bikes, not just the Scott Spark. The Spark has completely different downtube/headtube/front tire clearance, and ones that I like a lot less. There is a designer of this frame out there somewhere, but they probably think it's better for the business if all the licensees of that open mold say they designed it themselves. Just my opinion anyway.


Rode another Scott Spark, this time a Large, the rear suspension worked better on this demo, the CTD remote lockout was nice, if I were to build a FS 29er I think it would be a nice to have so the rider can more easily go from plush, to moderate, to minimal rear suspension travel.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

if you get ctd, try to go with the remote option so that you don't need to constantly reach down to adjust the shock.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

two-one said:


> And @Komdotkom and @ypocat, the knocking between the shock and "control" link... that shouldn't be possible, even with an oversized 8mm hole. That's because the bolt should not carry the forces itself, but it should tighten the shock adapter against the carbon controllink, and the friction where those two touch should be able to convey the forces, the bolt only holds everything together, is it tightened properly? Or maybe the bolt bottoms out? Then filing the bolt-rod a little should help it, or maybe place a spacer below the bolt.


Well my gripe with tightening the bolt at a higher torque was that then the shock was barely turning on that joint, when I undid the other joint and tried to move the shock by hand up and down.

But your post got me thinking, so I dismounted the shock and the bolt adapters and greased them at the surfaces where they were supposed to turn, and then cycled them by hand with the axle fastened in a vice, and this got them moving a bit easier.

Then I tightened the bolts properly, and so far there is no clacking, and the rear suspension seems to be working fine too.

I still think the bolt is the main force carrier here (I know I may be wrong!), and being tightened with a higher torque only makes it not move when the bike is picked up by hand, because the force is not strong enough (so it stays in the position where it sits while I'm on the bike), and this comes at the price of slight (perhaps negligible, given the total force) extra shock damping (on the tightened joints).

Anyway, I think this solves it for me for now, so I guess thanks for that.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Komdotkom said:


> Hi there, here's mine that I purcahsed from Flyxii.
> It arrived very quickly (I'm in Australia) and was well packed. I had to pull it apart to see what the pivots and stuff were like, as a former Titus owner I wasn't going to even bother building it if the pivots were not aligned like a Titus. Anyway I was surprised that all of the pivots were ball bearings and aligned very well. The only adjustment I made was grease and some .9mm spacers in the lower main pivot where the chainstay mount was rubbing on the seatpost pivot. This fixed it up, smooth as butter.
> It's been built with an X0 2x10 groupset except for the front der which is an XTR, my direct mount Sram X0 wouldn't fit, different bolt holes. Other components are T40 carbon bars, Monarch XX shock, SID RT3 forks and it's got mismatched wheels while I wait for my 135x10 hub kit for my TWE carbons. It weighs in a just over 10kg's so I'm pretty happy with that.
> 
> ...


You don't happen to have any pictures of your non-drive side crank area do you? I'm trying to figure out some of my brake hose and cable routing and would like an idea how yours is routed.

Also, did you try rotating the fitting on your Monarch XX so that it was in between the mounting flange in the front? Is the routing of the XLoc hose too sharp of a turn under there? Does it matter which way the Monarch faces? Could I just reverse the mounting points and then it would be a straight shot over or under the shock from the exit of the internal route.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

ypocat said:


> Well my gripe with tightening the bolt at a higher torque was that then the shock was barely turning on that joint, when I undid the other joint and tried to move the shock by hand up and down.


This ONLY place where rotation is allowed, is between the shock bushing and adapter surfaces!!!

If the shock is hard to rotate, then the teflon within the shock bushing is not worn in yet... you said you greased this interface, but this is actually a bad idea, 'cause this will speed up wear on this surface (the teflon will loosen from the steel shock bushing).


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

schwable furious freds at 18psi
36t XX1 ring on the front
the way up was even more fun, 170bpm, 90cad steady

Contour | Stories | XX1 36t pt1/2
Contour | Stories | XX1 36t pt2/2


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## bvfromru (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi, guys! I wanna share to you my bike, finally I've tried to ride it last Sunday. This isn't a final assembly - wheels, fork, brakes and transmission are from my old bicycle, I'll replace them in the nearest future. It's just a first pic of my complete assebmly (rear brake hose is too short, so it goes such a strange way).

Vitaliy, Russia.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

bvfromru- nice build, hope you enjoy it
hidperf- how did you get the decals on your bike that you showed on your blog? Is that a digital overlay on the picture, or did you print it out somehow? If so what did you use to do it?
-thanks


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

bvfromru said:


> Hi, guys! I wanna share to you my bike, finally I've tried to ride it last Sunday. This isn't a final assembly - wheels, fork, brakes and transmission are from my old bicycle, I'll replace them in the nearest future. It's just a first pic of my complete assebmly (rear brake hose is too short, so it goes such a strange way).
> 
> Vitaliy, Russia.
> 
> View attachment 786892


Looks fantastic Vitaliy. How's it ride? Any complaints or things others should look out for?



xc biker said:


> bvfromru- nice build, hope you enjoy it
> hidperf- how did you get the decals on your bike that you showed on your blog? Is that a digital overlay on the picture, or did you print it out somehow? If so what did you use to do it?
> -thanks


Those are just digital overlays. I was bored and wanted to try different ideas. I used Picasa and found a font that is exactly like the Specialized font, or close enough I couldn't tell. It's called sofachrome. And on the bikes, it seems to be in italics.

Wheels just came in today so now I can begin final assembly. I hope to have it out this weekend.


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## bvfromru (Sep 27, 2012)

*xc biker*, *hidperf*, thanks! This is my first carbon frame bicycle, first fully suspension bicycle and first bicycle which I construct myself, so I have pretty much wonder about it  It's too early to talk about my impressions, but I'm sure I'll like this bike.
As about assembly details - I've had some troubles mounting front deraileur. Mine XT M780 E-Type seems to be not quite compatible with this frame's plate. I had to use some type of spacer to mount it straight, although deraileur was not parallel to the chainline. Well, that's not a big problem, I think it works pretty fine now and I didn't hear anyone who complain about this trouble except me. 
Another my bad experience - is that I broke few screw's threads.  My bad, I always want to put more force to a wrench, but it won't acceptable with bicycles, especially with carbon bicycles. I even have dynamometric torque key, but it didn't help me. Well, that's my first experience. It works now, so I'm happy and just hope I won't broke any details in my future rides, 'cause my weight is about 95 kg.

Ah, yes. I want to put some decals on the frame too, but to my sadness I don't know how to make it look professional.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Some finished product shots*


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## crazybeach (Jan 24, 2011)

i have a superfly 100 and was thinking about doing the rockshox sid and monarch xx upgrade and switching to matchmaker for my xo setup and running my xt brakes... anyway how do you like your cockpit like that


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hidperf, nice build! Did you run into any problems assembling the bike together? What was the final weight?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

crazybeach said:


> i have a superfly 100 and was thinking about doing the rockshox sid and monarch xx upgrade and switching to matchmaker for my xo setup and running my xt brakes... anyway how do you like your cockpit like that


I was afraid it was going to be a mess but it actually turned out ok. I'm still fine tuning things, but so far I have no complaints with the layout. I like the fact that I have control over the shocks, the shifting is instant and smooth as silk, and the brakes are incredible.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> hidperf, nice build! Did you run into any problems assembling the bike together? What was the final weight?


I had two problems worth mentioning that really caused a headache.

1) the area where the rear derailleur hanger attached wasn't machined correctly which caused the hanger to be cocked off center. Simple fix with a dremel and sanding barrel adapter. Took all of two seconds, but still shouldn't have happened. 
2) the inserts on the rear swing arm where the brake caliper mounts had to be re-tapped. The bolts wouldn't thread in enough to tighten the caliper down. I don't know if it was some resin down inside that prevented it, but it's not easy to get a tap in that area and clean it up.

Other than those two things, it was pretty pain free. Especially for my first ever bike build. The cable routing took me quite a while to figure out because the internal routing channels don't go where you think they might. And every time I thought I had it figured out, I'd find a reason why I couldn't route that way. But once it all came together, it was like I finally understood the designers thought process.

It ended up heavier than I had hoped though, 27lbs! I'm gonna weigh it again soon because that doesn't seem right. I was documenting the weight of each item and it only came out to 25lbs. The only things I didn't document were the pedals, RWC bearings, and the Stan's rim tape and sealant.


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## craigstr (Sep 19, 2003)

That frame looks like a Scott Spark. Those pedals are over a pound easy and the Stan's tape and ~8oz. of sealant easily make up the difference.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

nice job hidperf, hope you love it!


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

bvfromru said:


> ...
> 
> Ah, yes. I want to put some decals on the frame too, but to my sadness I don't know how to make it look professional.


That is a two-step process. One, get the decals. Two, apply them correctly.
Which of these is a problem? Perhaps someone here can help.


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## RotorRoboter (Mar 31, 2013)

I really like your full supsension chiner. ^^

The frame looks just like the stumpjumper frame. Very nice.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

craigstr said:


> That frame looks like a Scott Spark. Those pedals are over a pound easy and the Stan's tape and ~8oz. of sealant easily make up the difference.


Yeah, I was thinking the pedals were heavy. They weren't my first choice, but I needed something right away and they were the only ones I could find local. Go figure, I ordered everything except pedals.

I'm hoping I'll become comfortable enough on the bike to go clipless and I already have a set of pedals waiting. If not, I'll pick up some lighter pedals down the road.

Right now I just want to ride it!


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

going clipless is one of the best upgrades you can make. Try the xt or xtr trail pedals. They're pretty light and have an amazing feel. You will gain a lot by going clipless.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

xc biker said:


> going clipless is one of the best upgrades you can make. Try the xt or xtr trail pedals. They're pretty light and have an amazing feel. You will gain a lot by going clipless.


I believe it. I need to work on my bike control and balance first. I'm clipless on my road bike and probably couldn't go without it how, but the first time I tried it on my old MTB I crashed twice. It's just such a completely different way of riding and different dynamics on the MTB.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hidperf said:


> Yeah, I was thinking the pedals were heavy. They weren't my first choice, but I needed something right away and they were the only ones I could find local. Go figure, I ordered everything except pedals.
> 
> I'm hoping I'll become comfortable enough on the bike to go clipless and I already have a set of pedals waiting. If not, I'll pick up some lighter pedals down the road.
> 
> Right now I just want to ride it!


Of course everyone has their own personal preference on clipless pedals. I've tried Shimano SPD and Crank Bros Eggbeater. I like the Eggbeaters for their simplicity, they don't clog or hold any dirt, 4-sided entry, and you can clip-in forwards or backwards. Really a superior design when you think about it.

Like you said with your road bike, now that I have ridden clipless for a few years on my mountain bike, I would not ride without them.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Epic_Dude said:


> Really a superior design when you think about it.


Maybe when you just think about it. When you ride them they fail and leave you walking far more often than other designs.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Hm, I'm glad I have exactly zero reasons to go "clipless". Saves me a lot of clipping in and out I figure.

I'm not saying there isn't a situation here and there where it seems that it would be good if the pedal held the foot in it, but by a large margin not enough to be worth losing the feeling of freedom the flat pedals give me.

Also I haven't fell from the bike yet (5 months), but there were situations when not placing a foot on the ground would mean landing on it full-body sideways.

They say you can gain some power by pulling the pedals up using your hamstrings, but I've never ridden like that, so I don't miss it. My power is just fine.

Just my viewpoint anyway!


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## Shh1966 (Apr 19, 2013)

Just ordered one of these frames in a 21 inch. I was wondering if the rear shock length is the same for all the frames.( 6.5 inches eye to eye ?)


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Shh1966 said:


> Just ordered one of these frames in a 21 inch. I was wondering if the rear shock length is the same for all the frames.( 6.5 inches eye to eye ?)


I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure they all use the 6.5x1.5 rear shock. But if you ask them, they should be able to send you drawings that show the measurements.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

They all use the same shock


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

What size rear hub fits the fm036? I'm looking at getting a wheelset from light-bicycles that come with Novatec hubs


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## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

Standard 135mm QR


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

meltingfeather said:


> Maybe when you just think about it. When you ride them they fail and leave you walking far more often than other designs.


Never had a failure in all my years of riding with them. No need to debate the merits of clipless pedals in the FS Carbon 29er thread though. I'm sure we can both head over to one of the other forums for that.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

so, checking back, to everyone that has this bike: how does it preform after you've had it for a little? How does it ride, how does it handle, tell us what you like and what you don't like.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Had mine about 18mths, its still tge quickest xc bike ive ridden, get tge rear shock sorted and it climbs like a mountain goat and decends better than it should. 
I have mine set up on 120mm recons and fox float rl at the rear. Joplin deopper post, there isnt much it cant handle. 
I did a xc race on sunday just gone and it does all mountan trips away with me.

Best $700 ever spent.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

xc biker said:


> so, checking back, to everyone that has this bike: how does it preform after you've had it for a little? How does it ride, how does it handle, tell us what you like and what you don't like.


Well, mines only been completed for a little over a month now so I can't give you any long term feedback yet. But as far as the bike itself, I love it. My only disappointment is the final weight, but that's my fault in the way I outfitted it and I can always change that. 
I love the adjustability I have with the front and rear suspension. I love how it climbs, descends, and handles. I love how the brakes can take anything I've thrown at them so far. And it's comfortable. 
I built it for right at what my budget allowed and I got everything I wanted in a bike. Now I just need to get some more seat time. The big test will come in July when I ride it from Durango to Moab.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

xc biker said:


> so, checking back, to everyone that has this bike: how does it preform after you've had it for a little? How does it ride, how does it handle, tell us what you like and what you don't like.


I guess that strongly depends on the particular build. The frame itself is perfect.

I'm past the 1500 km mark (23 km elevation gain), and I'm totally happy with mine. Pretty much a "dream bike" I guess.

There were a few problems but I have solved them all


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

so the general consensus is that this is a great frame with good value for money?


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## dudedud (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm wondering if some people have had their frame break and are just to embarrassed to let us know. 
I'm actually looking at buying one of these for XC, I'm a fairly light rider so I'm assuming that i wont have problems with the frame breaking


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Im big and heavy, I punish my bikes and its stayed in one piece.


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

The only reports of them breaking have come from a friend of a friend of a guy I met in the pub near the trails who heard it from his neighbours dog, all the reports from people that own them have been great 
Mine is currently sitting in the work stand waiting on parts.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

dudedud said:


> I'm wondering if some people have had their frame break and are just to embarrassed to let us know.
> I'm actually looking at buying one of these for XC, I'm a fairly light rider so I'm assuming that i wont have problems with the frame breaking


this type of carbon is probably less likely to break than aluminum or steel welding joints.

if you manage to impact it with the force needed to break it, then i think the broken frame is the last of your worries.

i know you probably mean material/manufacturing issues, but the only one i had was with the suspension link component, not the frame as such, and it was the kind of issue which would solve itself after certain amount of riding (abrasion). They sent me a replacement one anyway.

instead of the frame, the component that has it difficult on my bike may be the front fork, as my front brake(BFO1)+rotor(icetech 203mm)+the 29" wheel can put quite an unholy load on it when braking on a 20 degree descent. Glad i didn't go with Lefty.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

hidperf said:


> I had two problems worth mentioning that really caused a headache.
> 
> 1) the area where the rear derailleur hanger attached wasn't machined correctly which caused the hanger to be cocked off center. Simple fix with a dremel and sanding barrel adapter. Took all of two seconds, but still shouldn't have happened.
> 2) the inserts on the rear swing arm where the brake caliper mounts had to be re-tapped. The bolts wouldn't thread in enough to tighten the caliper down. I don't know if it was some resin down inside that prevented it, but it's not easy to get a tap in that area and clean it up.
> ...


looks good. pedals, tires, maybe seat, and rotors look heavy. could also go 1x10 and drop more weight if your terrain/fitness allow for it. which china wheelset is that? whats the weight? you can also get ti skewers on ebay that are 50gr for $25, don't know what yours weigh.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

ypocat said:


> this type of carbon is probably less likely to break than aluminum or steel welding joints.
> 
> if you manage to impact it with the force needed to break it, then i think the broken frame is the last of your worries.
> 
> ...


A Lefty is nearly as stiff as a Fox 40...


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Still can't decide on a 100mm or 120mm fork for the FM036. Any further thoughts from the punters?

Looking at either a 100mm Reba RLT or. 120mm SID RCT


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

ypocat said:


> Glad i didn't go with Lefty.


Oops, lefties are stiffer than any single crown fork, both fore-aft and torsionally.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Pagey,

You could cut the spacer in half and try 110mm. Back near the front of the thread, it was measured that the frame travel was 110mm I think. I sometimes wonder with that kinked seat tube how exaggerated it would look with a longer fork, vwsurfbum runs a 120mm and claims he is a fair lump of a rider, so maybe just ensure that your fork is convertable, buy a few spacers and start experimenting.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Speaking of kinked seat tube, I saw this on ebay:
29ER MTB Frames Full Suspentision Mountain Bike Frames Full Carbon Bicycle Parts | eBay

It has a straight seat tube. The seller claims to be a distributor, so it would be interesting to know who is making it as it is not the Hongfu FM036.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Go for the 120 RCT... the damper is better, and you can always reduce travel...


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> A Lefty is nearly as stiff as a Fox 40...





Fix the Spade said:


> Oops, lefties are stiffer than any single crown fork, both fore-aft and torsionally.


interesting you guys say that, because (I swear) I have seen a few XC race pics with bikes with Lefty, and the tire was touching the fork column under a pressure. I've seen 2 or 3 pics like this. Although maybe this could be a bent wheel and not the fork/hub, not sure.

You're probably gonna ask me to look those pics up, and I can do that but not just now, quite busy. I think I've seen the photos on Pinkbike, over a few months ago.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

pagey said:


> Still can't decide on a 100mm or 120mm fork for the FM036. Any further thoughts from the punters?
> 
> Looking at either a 100mm Reba RLT or. 120mm SID RCT


can't give advice on the rockshox as i ride fox talas 120/100mm - and i love the variability, but i only use the 120mm on rough/dirt-road descends, and even there I could do without it. I have the 21" frame and very short (90mm) stem, which only sits on a 5mm spacer, and with the 120mm when used on flat or ascent, the front of the bike feels too high (compared to the 100mm anyway).


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## n74740 (May 27, 2005)

*used one*

Looks like someone didn't care for theirs:

Used Carbon Fiber Full Suspension 29er Mountain Bike Frame Size 19 5" | eBay


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I like how the frame from ebay is "OEM from a major manufacturer but has no decals" convenient, eh?


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

xc biker said:


> I like how the frame from ebay is "OEM from a major manufacturer but has no decals" convenient, eh?


yeah they proably shouldn't have put that in the listing since theres no way to prove it. its the same frame thats in this thread though. I thought these chinese FS frames copy the scott frame's geometry? or does the scott differ slightly? if it sells for under $600 could be a good buy since it has a $250 shock.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Ended up choosing the 100mm Reba RLT. Lets see how it goes


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

*My new dually*

Hi colleagues,

I would like to say MANY THANKS to all of you.

I've read hours, days ... perhaps weeks  in this thread & decide to buy one of this frames.
Without you & this thread I never find the courage to buy, but all the positive comments gave me some kind of secure 

I've checked the geometry & compare with my old bikes (also with my China LTK023 29er HT) & came to the conclusion: I have to give the frame a chance :thumbsup:

Here is my build:









It ended up at 9,52 Kg's. I hope you like it as much as I do  This thing is incredible fast & I get more & more mercy with all the 26er rider, especially with the 26er HT rider 
I never expect this ... but I like it very much !

I wrote the build more detailled there: 29er Fully - mal schauen obs was taugt - Light-Bikes Forum (for those who are interested ;-)

Sorry for my english, it's not my excellence :madman:


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Wow, that's pretty light checky! How did you manage to mount the nokon/alligator outes without cable stops, or did you do them full length?


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Thanks 

Yes, indeed, the cables were a challenge. First of all I didn't noticed, that I have to use outer for the full length :madman:
I can't accept this & therefore I looked for a solution to use the Mini-I-Links with this frame.
The solution was very simple ... once I've found it 
I use some threaded sleeves (M4 thread) made of aluminium where the Mini-I-Links fitted nearly perfect in.

In the pic two originals, 1 x how I have to "machine" it (right) & 1 x ready for use (middle):









& in the frame









and with the Mini-I-Links mounted:









very simple & effective :thumbsup:


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## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

checky said:


> Hi colleagues,
> 
> I would like to say MANY THANKS to all of you.
> 
> ...


I very much doubt it weighs 9.52kg's, 21pounds, that is as light as the most blinged cannondale scalpel 29er....for example


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

It is, if you believe or not :thumbsup:

But to be honest: I use some parts which you cannot buy. The Fork is e.g. a 26er 130mm Minute MRD + 29er lowers. I adapt some internals & have a 1508g 29er fork with 104mm travel 

If it is appreciated I can make a listing with every single part & it's weight.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

@checky: the weight-specifications are not needed for me (I left the weightweenie world, and became a passive bodyweightweenie  ), but I do love your problemsolving mentality!


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

two-one,
Thank you very much. I'm just a pragmatic weightweenie.
"passive" bodyweightweenie is great :thumbsup: I guess this will come over all of us ... sooner or later 

c_klein87,
Not just Pro bikes can be light ... or lets say: If I get the hand on a Scalpel 29er I will be able to build it below 9Kg's with a Pro budget 

Here is my build:
Component Typ weight:

Frame Flexy 29er Fully 19" tuned (replaced steel bolts to Al + Ti) 2024g
Shok Monarch RT3 223g
Fork 29er MRD tuned 1508g
Headset Flyxii 73g
Stem XLC Pro titan bolts 108g
Bar China Carbon 660x31,6 122g
Grips Hitemp42 Flygrips 12g 
Shifter XTR 980 with Alu bolts 198g
Brakes R1 160/180 Titan bolts, tuned adaptor 578g
front Derialleur X7 S3 with Alu bolts 123g
rear Derailleur XTR tuned carbon rear plate, Alu bolts 174g
Cassette XX 11-36 215g
Bottom Bracket DuraAce 9000 60g
Cranks Race Face 2x 39 Tune/26 RaceFace 518g 
Chain Record 10 speed 247g
Wheels Mack Hubs, Rigida Edge Ryde MC1, DT Revo 2x 1254g
Rim Tabe NoTubes + Valves 34g
Skewers Heylight 54g
Seat Tundra II 158g
Seatpost New Ultimate Evo 410x31,6 128g
Seatpost clamp KCNC 13g
Pedals Exustar 28 Ti with Alu bolts 178g
Tubes NoTubes Milk 220g
Tires Conti X-King/Race-King 2,2 1070g
Bottle Cage Bontrager X-Lite 38g
Cables Mini-i-Link 62g

Additional 
Aheadcap, screw Charliemike Carbon 4g
Chainring Screws at crank included 
Chainstayprotector Butyl tube 14g
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

total weight: 9450

:thumbsup:

The scale shows: 








+ 43g are on the shown KCNC seatpost, the rest is somewhere hidden at the whole build (grease etc...).


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## LarsF (Feb 14, 2004)

Miracle is a scam. They take your money on AliExpress and give you excuses in return, including fraudulant tracking numbers...


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

How long have you been waiting? It may take a while but they always turn up in the end based on other peoples reports.
I did always use paypal just incase but I got mine through flyxii.com rather than ali.


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## dereknz (May 3, 2011)

I have purchased twice from Miracle via emails with no problems with my orders. Have also purchased from Lt Bike, Gotobike and Flyxii and have had no issues. Gotobike did send a fork in 3k finish instead of an ordered UD finish but that didn't bother me. Had a carbon saddle from Gotobike crack at the front where the rail attaches to the saddle, after emails and photos it was replaced with my next order with them. Was told it was the 1st time a they have had a saddle crack.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

sorry,i know this has nothing to do with the thread, but will a 2012 slx 9 speed rear derailleur work with 10 speed cassette and chain?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

No it wont. The sync will be all wrong.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

okay, thanks vw


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Anybody replaced the bottom pivot bearings? Noticed a little play in them last night.


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## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

*That's the frame we are selling from LaMere Cycles, everyone loves it.*







This is the frame we (LaMere Cycles) imports but from the factory direct with BB30 bottom bracket, same frame though, we've been riding and racing this bike and love love love it, this XX1 build with Lefty pictured here weighs 21.8 lbs, could get it lighter with Ashima rotors and a couple other modifications, but how much lighter does it need to be!?!?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

jplamere1 said:


> View attachment 802985
> This is the frame we (LaMere Cycles) imports but from the factory direct with BB30 bottom bracket, same frame though, we've been riding and racing this bike and love love love it, this XX1 build with Lefty pictured here weighs 21.8 lbs, could get it lighter with Ashima rotors and a couple other modifications, but how much lighter does it need to be!?!?


Looks nice, who is the frame mfr, which rear shock is installed. and what warranty on the bike?


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

LaMere- that looks great but I respectfully ask to keep these forums for information only and not advertisements. If you would like to give reviews or suggestions that would be great! One suggestion, try building it up with the cheap carbon rims. It would decrease weight and add stiffness to your build.
-thanks, xcbiker


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

jplamere1 said:


> View attachment 802985
> This is the frame we (LaMere Cycles) imports but from the factory direct with BB30 bottom bracket, same frame though, we've been riding and racing this bike and love love love it, this XX1 build with Lefty pictured here weighs 21.8 lbs, could get it lighter with Ashima rotors and a couple other modifications, but how much lighter does it need to be!?!?


21.8lbs! Man, I wish mine was even close to that. Although I didn't go for the absolute lightest of everything, but for a build that suited my needs. Still, very impressive at 21.8lbs.


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## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

*LaMere Cycles 29er*

I believe we got this one from Yishun, but all the full susp 29ers from all the agents there seem to be the same model as this, which is really nice. Now we purchase direct from the factory as we get them with a small LaMere logo on them, and all BB30, but you can find this frame from all the usual agent guys including HongFu, DengFu, Carbonal, Yishun, etc... I'm guessing you are an Epic fan, I was too, but just sold my top of the line 2012 Epic 29er and got this and put $2000 in my pocket and dropped 2 lbs off the bike! Just did a sweet 3 hour memorial day poach here in the Bay Area thru Huddardt Park to Skyline trail...I am totally in love with this bike...so smooth and supple and at 21.8 lbs it feels like you are just flying thru the woods....and going uphill in 2 harder gears for same effort is so fun and fast...all I wanna do is ride this bike!

We offer a lifetime warranty on this frame, if it breaks due to a mfg defect we will send you a new one no questions asked, you pay shipping. If you crash and break it we will sell you one at cost plus shipping, and our cost is about $700 or so.

The rear shock is the top of the line Marzocchi Roco Air 165mm, we're a dealer for them, its really solid and plush, but unfortunately no handlebar lockout...but actually I find there is not much reason to lock it out, maybe just on the road over to the trail.


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## LB412 (Nov 28, 2012)

impact on LBS? brands? future innovation? i have no problem with Chinese production if it delivers a quality product at a lower cost/better value... Which is often the case. I draw the line at copies of others products/innovations. Most of the bikes i have seen are copies or take serious "inspiration" from the best berands. Therefore i will not buy!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

LB412 said:


> impact on LBS? brands? future innovation? i have no problem with Chinese production if it delivers a quality product at a lower cost/better value... Which is often the case. I draw the line at copies of others products/innovations. Most of the bikes i have seen are copies or take serious "inspiration" from the best berands. Therefore i will not buy!


OMG it's got two chain stays and seat stays as well. Wait just a second, it's got a top tube and a seat tube. Damn that looks just like a #insert big brand name#, they must have copied it.:bluefrown:


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

^
And who knows, the manufacturer may be the one driving innovation. They have material engineers and design engineers trying to get ahead of demand and sell the next best carbon bike to Spesh, Trek, etc.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Looks like a nice shapely frame..


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

xc biker said:


> .... One suggestion, try building it up with the cheap carbon rims. It would decrease weight and add stiffness to your build.
> -thanks, xcbiker


Hey xcbiker,
Can you please tell me about which carbon rims you are talking ?
I know about the "wider carbon 29er rims" ... but these will add some weight cause they are around 395g + each.
Which clincher carbon rims are lighter than light (selected) Crest's (mine are < 370g) ?

Are there carbon clincher rims out there which are lighter as my Ryde Edge MC1 which I use on my build (<316g each) ?

Many thanks


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

checky-
if I'm not mistaken after reading the entire cheap Chinese carbon rims thread, I thought that most people requested their wide rims to be in the high 370s or low 380s. The wheelsets that people build with them are almost always lighter than a crest wheelset. They are generally 1400-low 1500. I think some may be in the 1300s (not sure though. Don't quote me on that.) the wide rims are also a lot stiffer than the crests, and have a wider inner diameter than the crests, giving the tire more stability and volume. They also have a snappier acceleration and better ride feel (reportedly).
-if I am wrong about any of this please correct me. I don't like spreading wrong information. Xc biker


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

would you be referring to something like these from light-bike xc biker?

I am sure there are others as well, probably lighter than that, but that was a link I had bookmarked.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

those are similar to the rims I was talking about. I was talking about the wide rims, the 'am' rims, not the thinner 'xc' rims. The wheelset weights I was talking about were for custom built wheelsets that the people on the forum built. I think the American classic hubs with cx-ray got some pretty light wheels.
-sorry for hijacking the thread


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Thank you both for the information. 
I hoped to find lighter rims. My light 29er wheelset weights 1254g, hard to beat with this carbon rims.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

checky said:


> Thank you both for the information.
> I hoped to find lighter rims. My light 29er wheelset weights 1254g, hard to beat with this carbon rims.


Wow what are they? I hope you dont mind but how much do you weigh?


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

vw- I think he said that they are Ryde edge mc1 rims which are about 316 grams each


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Jepp, completed with extraordinary nice Mack Hubs (f:84g / r:221g) and two times crossed DT Revolution spokes.
Couse of > 4 years on 26er ZTR Race & MMX without any issues I tried these ultralight 29er rims. Time will tell if that was a good decision ;-)
Compared: the Crest hold up better tubeless & during building the wheels, the Crest felt stiffer. But during riding I cannot notice a difference between Crest & Ryde Edge MC1.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

those are REALLY nice looking hubs. Hope you love them. I got to check out the rims now


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

wow. Those are some seriously nice wheels. Enjoy them checky. You might want to try the carbons for the ride quality and stiffness.


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Yeah, thanks. And believe me: if you judge just on pictures you find in the www: when you hold Mack Hubs in your hands, the pictures are just pale representations. Imo they are over CK or PW & beside that: also from durability on top. From my experience over e.g. DT-Swiss. When you order: for some bucks you get your own lasering and so on. Absolutely great this guy (no, I've nothing to do with him, just a satisfied & excited customer).



xc biker said:


> You might want to try the carbons for the ride quality and stiffness.


This is my intention. 
BR


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Just received my FM036 frame from Dengfu.

Some first points

1. Frame is in very good order. Finish (matte black) was good and all pivot gaps were even.
2. I can confirm that all pivot points now run bearings. I have regreased them all.
3. Weight was 2130g

More to follow as I build it up


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

thanks pagey. Good luck! Hope you love it


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

So all the parts have arrived

FM036 duel 29er
Light-bicycle carbon wheels
Reba RLT 100mm fork
Fox RP23 shock
XT brakes
XT 2x10 gear set
Thompson Elite seatpost
Fizik Gobi saddle
3T stem and carbon flat bar
XTR pedals

Build picks to follow


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Nice build pagey. I have the reba. Its amazing. As a side note, since you mentioned that you have the light-bicycle carbon wheels, please post your experience with them to the cheap Chinese carbon rims thread.
-I hope you love your build. Post some pics


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

jplamere1 said:


> View attachment 802985
> This is the frame we (LaMere Cycles) imports but from the factory direct with BB30 bottom bracket, same frame though, we've been riding and racing this bike and love love love it, this XX1 build with Lefty pictured here weighs 21.8 lbs, could get it lighter with Ashima rotors and a couple other modifications, but how much lighter does it need to be!?!?


Nice build. However with that front brake rotor, I'd be already dead. Like 20 times.

What's the biggest XX1 chainring you can slot in there? (Depends on the Q-Factor, the 156 allows for 34T max, on this frame.)

Also, I run Fox CTD and find the non-remote operation totally sufficient.

As a business, do you know the name of the designer of this frame?


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Frame ready for parts assembly. What do you think.


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## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

It looks like it'll ride awesome!

However, I call poor taste on the Rock Lobster decals, since this isn't along the lines of anything that I've ever seen from the real Rock Lobster. It's not imitating some TIG'ed steel custom creation, rather it's an open-mold China-carbon full sus; it just makes no sense to me to use those decals in such a manner. That's the only bee in my bonnet about this bike.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Fair call. I was thinking more along the lines of The B52s. But I can see what you mean


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

looks beautiful pagey, how did you get your decals made? Was it an additional option or did you go to a separate company?
post some pictures of when its built up. It looks great


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## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

pagey said:


> Fair call. I was thinking more along the lines of The B52s. But I can see what you mean


Ah, that's a much better reason, thanks much for the clarification.

And like xc biker asked, waht was your process for creating the decals? I can see how multiple-color printed vinyl might do the trick, but I'm definitely curious.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Got the decals from here - http://stores.ebay.com.au/World-Cyc...7886011&_sid=1045564381&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Hi All,
I have been reading up preparing to build a FS carbon chinese 29er frame + light bicycle carbon wheels. Will this setup run XX1? If so which parts do I need? q factor of crankset? dt hub converter etc? Or if not, what would be a smart bang-for-buck 1x10 solution? XT/X9 RD , Carbon crankset with wolftooth ring? or XX1 crankset with other components?
Thankyou,
kris


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Kris-
this frame will run xx1, I don't know which parts you need. I think running a 1x10 is cheaper because you don't need the specialized xx1 parts. I don't think that xx1 parts will work with any other components because of the special tooth shape on the chainrings, cassette, jockey wheels, and chain. In other words, xx1 dosnt mix with anything else, even other sram stuff. You could run xt or xtr in the rear and a good single ring crankset up front. Sorry I don't know any good ones. I personally recommend shimano over sram, I find that shimano has faster and more reliable shifting. If you want to wait for a cheaper 1x11 option, I think sram is lowering xx1 to x9 and maybe x7. Those are just my 2 cents. Hope they're helpfully,
-xc Biker


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Hey xc biker thanks for the advice.
I've looked further and I agree a 1x10 setup is better for me.
Can anyone please advice which parts I need for a 1x10 xt setup to work on this frame? bottom brack and 1 factor etc. I've found it very hard to find a single ring xt crankset!
I'm going with xt brakes, light bicycle carbon wheels, reba rlt fork and monarch rt3 rear shock.
thanks again,
can't wait to build


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Kris-
I would use regular xt/xtr parts in the rear, like the cassette, rear derailleur, and rear shifter. I would run a raceface turbine crankset up front. To run it single, you should buy the triple ring, take of the 64 bcd spider, and run it with a ramp less chainring and a bash guard. You can get the ring from raceface or mrp. Alternatively, I think you can find a turbine crank set up already as a single online. As to the bb, it depends on the type of bb shell you order your frame with. I would run it with a pf30 or bb30. Idk if it works on threaded shell based on the axle size. Idk what q factor is, so I cant help you with that.
Your part list sounds great. I have a reba rlt, and the xt brakes, and I really love them. Make sire you use a thru axle in the front, it will greatly improve your performance. Ive read the light bicycle wheel tjread and they sound great too. Id love a pair for myself whenever I can build a pair up.
Sounds great, I hope my advice is helpful. 
-xc biker


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

thankyou very much xc biker for the help.
If possible can I run the xt or xtr crankset 1x10, only because I think I will buy the whole set as a package deal and buy the wolf tooth ramp less chain ring. Will this be as good or better than the raceface? I'd also like to try and run without a bashguard- is this ok? I think the dengfu fm036 / flyxii fr210 can accept bb30. Can't wait to make a xt 1x10 FS full carbon bike


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Kris-
If you buy a XT chainset, all you need to do to run it in a single ring set up is :
- Remove the three standard rings
- Purchase a single ring specific chain ring (E13, Gamut, Race face etc)
- Install single ring on the middle crank tabs (as if it were the 2nd gear ring on a triple)
- Install chain device and space to suit chain ring.
-you may need to buy shorter bolts for the chainring. 
when you order the frame you need to specify whether you want a bsa or bb30 bottom bracket shell. If you only want to run shimano get the threaded shell. If you want to run a variety of cranks bb30 is better because they will work with almost crankset with an adapter.
running w/o a bash should be fine, I would not advise it because it adds minimal weight, cost, and protects your leg and chainring. Idk why you wouldn't want one.
as to whether a turbine crank or xtr crank is better I don't know. I havnt tried either of them so I don't have an opinion. You could try to try both out, look at the reviews and compare them, or pick the lighter one.
-xc biker (just a disclaimer: I am 99% sure that what I post is correct you just might want to double check before you spend a lot of money.)


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

Chainset is to cranks as flat is to...


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Sorry. I messed up. I meant to say crankset. Thank you for pointing out my mistake. A crankset is very different from whatever a chainset is .


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

xc biker said:


> Sorry I meant crankset. It was pretty obvious in context though.


It was obvious, and chainset is a word that's used... I was just making a joke, partly using the fact that the last word is "apartment," which has nothing to do with bikes. :thumbsup:


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Nice. I didnt catch the joke before. Now I get it. Still, I would like to say thanks for pointing out the mistake so I dont cause other people to make a mistake


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

xc biker said:


> Nice. I didnt catch the joke before. Now I get it. Still, I would like to say thanks for pointing out the mistake so I dont cause other people to make a mistake


Huh?
That was the joke. Chainset is the British word for crankset/cranks. It was not a mistake.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Ok. Now I I just feel like an idiot. So it wasnt really a mistake. Now in hindsight my last post makes no sense at all. Yay


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Pagey-
How is your build going? Do you like the frame so far?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

For those that may be interested, I've updated my blog on my build. I still haven't put the list of parts, prices and weights on there yet though.

Full suspension, open-mold, Chinese carbon fiber 29er build | Join me on my first bike build


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

xc biker said:


> Pagey-
> How is your build going? Do you like the frame so far?


Build is proceeding slowly due to work commitments.

Overall it is proving a good build with the only catch being the front deraillier. I ordered the wrong mount first.

The light bicycle wheelset is looking great. More to follow after a concerted effort to finish the build this weekend


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Ok.thanks pagey. Good luck on the build. I hope you finish it this weekend. Keep us updated. 
Thanks for the blog and link hidperf. I enjoyed reading it alot.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Build is now complete and I hope to get it out tomorrow for its maiden voyage.

No real issues with the build just he usual stuff that you have with any new build. The main point is to ensure that you have the right shock mounts and the right front deraillier.

Pictures later


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

pagey said:


> Build is now complete and I hope to get it out tomorrow for its maiden voyage.
> 
> No real issues with the build just he usual stuff that you have with any new build. The main point is to ensure that you have the right shock mounts and the right front deraillier.
> 
> Pictures later


Yep. That front derailleur screwed me too. Which reminds me, if anyone is building one of these and wants a SRAM X0 front derailleur, I have one that will work with a 38T front ring as long as you don't run a bash guard. PM me for info.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Pagey-
Im glad that the build worked out well for you. I hope it will work great tomorrow. Good luck!


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm very curious about what kind of shock everyone is running...
I'm using a custom tuned Manitou S-Type SR SPV


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I'm very curious about what kind of shock everyone is running...
> I'm using a custom tuned Manitou S-Type SR SPV


Rock Shox Monarch XX


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Fox Float R


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

Lefty on the front Rockshox Monarch RT3 (med rebound/high compression) on the back, still fiddling but it seems to work ok so far


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Fox RP23


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

I had a crash and my seatstay has a small crack now :-(
I ask Flyxii for spare parts & they told me, that they do not longer sell this frame - but I can still find it on their webshop.

Can someone tell me where I can get spare parts for this frame ?
Thousand thanks.


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Checky-
I dont know where you can replace it, but if you cannot find the spare parts you can try to repair it youself. On theprojectjunkie.com if you go to the bike section, you can find 2 ways to repair a carbon frame if it has a crack. One requires a vacuum bagging machine and one relies on tape for compression. If your crack is to close to a joint or pivot or too big it may not work though.
Sorry that I cant help with the spares.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

two-one said:


> I'm very curious about what kind of shock everyone is running...
> I'm using a custom tuned Manitou S-Type SR SPV


Fox CTD (they only sell a "firm" tune in this size), rebound damping in about the middle, plushy, I just finally got cozy with riding it full open = bliss.

Could never ride this bike on the fully closed / hard-taily setting - contrary to popular belief, that's when i'm "bobbing" on the bike, as opposed to half-open/fully-open, when the bike rides smooth even into a very steep ascent.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

sounds like bull.. - not only they have it on their web shop, but they haven't got any replacement 29er full suss frame to sell.

but hey, i wouldn't warranty you either -- i hope you'll have good luck fixing the frame - also do a google search for companies who specialize in fixing carbon bike frames - i noticed a few when i was researching whether to go into this.

just wondering - how did the crash happen? were you clipped in?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

pagey said:


> Build is now complete and I hope to get it out tomorrow for its maiden voyage.
> 
> No real issues with the build just he usual stuff that you have with any new build. The main point is to ensure that you have the right shock mounts and the *right front deraillier*.
> 
> Pictures later


or XX1

also if you (like me) are lazy and lead the brake cables externally, take care that your front work, when compressing, doesn't hit the cables (with the bridge joining the fork legs).


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

xc biker,
many thanks. very interesting site. I guess to repair it will be the last solution. I would like to ask the other distributors for spare parts first. Wish me luck 
btw: is there a list in this thread about all distries of this frame ?



ypocat said:


> sounds like bull.. - not only they have it on their web shop, but they haven't got any replacement 29er full suss frame to sell.
> 
> but hey, i wouldn't warranty you either -- i hope you'll have good luck fixing the frame - also do a google search for companies who specialize in fixing carbon bike frames - i noticed a few when i was researching whether to go into this.
> 
> just wondering - how did the crash happen? were you clipped in?


To avoid missunderstanding: I don't ask for warranty in any way, I ask precise for spare parts with willing to pay for it. 
How the crash happened: to be honest: I don't know  It was during racing on a marathon in Malmedy, Belgium last Sunday. I had two situations where it could happened. At both my bike felt to the side (and me too ;-) I guess I hit a stone in one situation.... I don't know. Saw the desaster at home when I clean the bike.


----------



## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Some pics


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Very nice build Pagey! I wish I could have gotten the matte finish but they didn't have any when I ordered mine. 

How do you like the ride and handling?


----------



## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Why do you have tape at the left chainstay ?


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

checky said:


> Why do you have tape at the left chainstay ?


To protect the chainstay from damage due to chain slap.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> To protect the chainstay from damage due to chain slap.


On the LEFT side?


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

I think the tape is to protect it from rocks that could potentially hit the chainstay. It might have been inspired by checky's misfortune


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Pagey, 

Can I ask you how tall you are in and what size frame this is. I'm on the verge of ordering one of these frames but don't want to get the size wrong. I'm 5"8 and going by virtual top tube lengths I should be going for a 15.5 frame as this matches closely all the other 26er and road bikes I ride. The only worry is the seat tube length on the fm036 in 15.5 is some 30mm shorter than the bikes i currently ride, but this just means a longer seatpost is needed.


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## pikeymick (Apr 14, 2009)

After lurking on the thread for a year I finally pulled the trigger and buy a frame from hongfu. I went with the FM036. It came it the mail yesterday. The frame looks great, except for a defect where the swing arm meets the seat tube:








I sent them an email and they want to know

Now pls tell me the details as below:
1.When and how did you find this defect.
2.What will the cost be if you repair it in your local shops.
3.What's the shipping cost if you send it back.

Will keep you all posted.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Doesn't look bad to me, mind pointing out the defect.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Epic_Dude said:


> Doesn't look bad to me, mind pointing out the defect.


There is a crack in the outer layer of carbon.

I would respond asking them to ship you the swing arm and your bike shop will fix it.


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## pikeymick (Apr 14, 2009)

They've been very responsive. I just got this back from them after proposing they send me the swing arm:

I am willing to do so,then what's the cheaest shipping cost for you to send back the single arm?
After I apply to my boss,I will inform you,then you can send back the single arm and we will assume the shipping cost.

Thank you very much.
Summer

*edit pasted wrong thing


----------



## jpedders (Jul 7, 2011)

oops, wrong location...


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi,Can anyone help with sizing of frame for 5ft 8 person, im looking at 15.5 as per post just above. Alot of people go for 17.5, but is this more suited for 5"9 to 5"10 people. Or can someone advise on going by effective top tube length of previous steeds!!!HELP


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

a 5 minute descend video from a mountain trip i did with my build a few days ago... (ascent was also a lot of fun, but those don't look good on video


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

I am 5'8" and went with the 17.5 which fits me well.

I taped the left size by mistake as I was half asleep but then decided to leave it as extra protection.

I am racing it in a 6hr race tomorrow so I will report on it then as it will be a great test


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

pikeymick said:


> After lurking on the thread for a year I finally pulled the trigger and buy a frame from hongfu. I went with the FM036. It came it the mail yesterday. The frame looks great, except for a defect where the swing arm meets the seat tube:
> View attachment 811637
> 
> 
> ...


may be just me, but i don't even see carbon weave patterns on that pic - just a matte color (which I have too, but there are patterns). Wondering if they switched factories.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

ypocat said:


> a 5 minute descend video from a mountain trip i did with my build a few days ago... (ascent was also a lot of fun, but those don't look good on video


A carbon 29er squishy is my ultimate dreambike.
Have you ridden an alloy squish 29er? How does the weight compare to that? I'm just getting into carbon...I got a carbon handlebar,now I
'm really curious how a whole carbon bike rides! I can't even imagine.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

zarr said:


> A carbon 29er squishy is my ultimate dreambike.
> Have you ridden an alloy squish 29er? How does the weight compare to that? I'm just getting into carbon...I got a carbon handlebar,now I
> 'm really curious how a whole carbon bike rides! I can't even imagine.


never ridden an alloy 29", but i did have 26" hard tail once and full suss once, not sure if alloy or steel though

when i first rode on the carbon, i noticed how easy it was to flip it from side to side, you felt like you have to be careful otherwise the bike may lift off the road.

also generally you use much less force to steer the bike - in my early videos over-steering/over-tilting is quite visible.

all in all the bike is a kilometer-eater, just asking for longer trips all the time.

the weight depends very much on the build, but if i remember correctly the frame is at least 1 kg lighter than an alloy counterpart - maybe not much on paper but it feels very different.

i think in terms of having as little bike between the road and you (in a good sense) as possible, carbon is the way to go.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

ypocat said:


> may be just me, but i don't even see carbon weave patterns on that pic - just a matte color (which I have too, but there are patterns). Wondering if they switched factories.


The frame in that picture is UD (unidirectional) carbon, it does not have a weave pattern like 3k. UD finish will show some cloudiness or color variation as well but UD is the strongest and lightest CF material, just not as pretty as the other types.


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## hogspen (Aug 15, 2009)

Im looking for info on the 2013 giant XTC advanced SL 29r.I heard there was a recall?


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Pickeymick- any word on the swingarm? When is it supposed to be exchanged?

Krisvm- any update on your build? Did you get the right 1x10 parts and the frame yet?

Hogspen- sorry, I dont know if its been recalled. You might want to try asking in the general section or the 29er frame/bike section. Recalls arnt really applicable in this thread unless they are for the dual-suss chinese carbon 29er. Sorry I cant be more help. Good luck finding out!


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Raced the 6hr on the weekend and the bike was awesome. Lots of technical and rocky trail with both switchback and fire road climbs. The fame was very efficient but also soaked up the rocks with ease. In combination with the carbon wheels it was a nippy ride. Ended up 9th.

Big thumbs up from me


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Nice job! Getting in ninth is pretty sweet.


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

Great stuff Pagey and XC Biker.
I haven't made much progress as I've been getting slammed at work. 
Bit of time off coming up and the weather should be getting better too.
I've decided on everything except the drive train. Can someone just decide for me!
I would like a 1x10/11 with bashguard setup which is xt quality or above for the best price possible!
Cheers
kris


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

I went back and forth from 2x10 and 1x10/11 and ended up with 2x10 XT as it will suit my riding.

I still think if I could build a 1x10 with a 42t that would be the best. Also I would skip the bash guard


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

pagey said:


> I went back and forth from 2x10 and 1x10/11 and ended up with 2x10 XT as it will suit my riding.
> 
> I still think if I could build a 1x10 with a 42t that would be the best. Also I would skip the bash guard


Not worried about an accident and slicing your leg up Pagey?
If no bash guard then I think its hard to go past the xx1 crank.


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## Jonny_K (Oct 9, 2009)

Does anyone have ordered this frame pre-painted in China?
Trying to find this one not only black matt/3k/UD


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Breaking news!
I was bothered by noise from the pivots, despite the grease, so I removed all joints:
in total there are 8 bearings, of which 3 were pretty much stuck, 2 were moved in steps and the remaining were still working, only showing signs of rust. The moral is that bearings are not sealed and of the mediocre quality. They are Z series, ie They have one face with a metal foil that protects the spheres. The mtb's use would certainly have required waterproof bearings on both sides, ie the series 2RS.
So I ordered new sealed bearings, only that I took the type "max" that is, with increased number of balls (I want to stay quiet for a while 'time!)
For those who have this frame (or for those who want to take it) I list the bearings must be ordered (sooner or later!):
- Nr. 4 - 698 2RS MAX (8x19x6)
- Nr. 4 - 6901 2RS MAX (12x24x6)


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Kris vm-
Depending on when you're gonna build your bike, you might w t to wait a while and biy the sram xo1 that will be coming out soon. If you want to check it out, Pinkbike.com has a great article on it. If not I would suggest the xt or xtr trail 1x10 drivetrain. Xt and xtr are great and you'll really like them.


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

hey xc biker,
thanks mate, ill look at the article ... eta for xo1? good price point?
More than happy to get xt drive train, I've read bits and pieces online , but I just need a clear simple guide of the parts to buy and how to setup it up to work on this frame. I think it sounds smarter to get a xx1 crankset as I pay more getting a 2 or 3 ring xt crankset + dedicated single speed ring. Just need to decide whether to get a bash guard or not. Do the xx1 cranks come with a bash guard and I take it gxp bb will fit on this FS carbon frame?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

LoAl said:


> Breaking news!
> I was bothered by noise from the pivots, despite the grease, so I removed all joints:
> in total there are 8 bearings, of which 3 were pretty much stuck, 2 were moved in steps and the remaining were still working, only showing signs of rust. The moral is that bearings are not sealed and of the mediocre quality. They are Z series, ie They have one face with a metal foil that protects the spheres. The mtb's use would certainly have required waterproof bearings on both sides, ie the series 2RS.
> So I ordered new sealed bearings, only that I took the type "max" that is, with increased number of balls (I want to stay quiet for a while 'time!)
> ...


Amazing cheers.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

krisvm said:


> Great stuff Pagey and XC Biker.
> I haven't made much progress as I've been getting slammed at work.
> Bit of time off coming up and the weather should be getting better too.
> I've decided on everything except the drive train. Can someone just decide for me!
> ...


depends much on the terrain you will be riding.

1x is almost always a compromise, just more or less, depending on the terrain. (i ride xx1, and very steep ascents strain my back a little more than i like; asphalt descents could be little faster; but the setup/operation simplicity more than makes up for it i guess.)

if you don't go 1x, then 2x10 XT is the way imho.

only wait for the 1x11 XO if you are finishing the bike in a year from now (or prepare to pull hair).


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

LoAl said:


> Breaking news!
> I was bothered by noise from the pivots, despite the grease, so I removed all joints:
> in total there are 8 bearings, of which 3 were pretty much stuck, 2 were moved in steps and the remaining were still working, only showing signs of rust. The moral is that bearings are not sealed and of the mediocre quality. They are Z series, ie They have one face with a metal foil that protects the spheres. The mtb's use would certainly have required waterproof bearings on both sides, ie the series 2RS.
> So I ordered new sealed bearings, only that I took the type "max" that is, with increased number of balls (I want to stay quiet for a while 'time!)
> ...


it tells me: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LoAl again."

so just thanks! awesome info.

i guess you ride in a wet conditions a lot? mine is not making a sound from the bearings yet.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> Amazing cheers.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


:thumbsup:



ypocat said:


> it tells me: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LoAl again."
> 
> so just thanks! awesome info.
> 
> i guess you ride in a wet conditions a lot? mine is not making a sound from the bearings yet.


I have to say quite sincerely to mistreat this frame: puddles, river fords, etc., then the frequent washings ....


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

LoAl said:


> Breaking news!
> I was bothered by noise from the pivots, despite the grease, so I removed all joints:
> in total there are 8 bearings, of which 3 were pretty much stuck, 2 were moved in steps and the remaining were still working, only showing signs of rust. The moral is that bearings are not sealed and of the mediocre quality. They are Z series, ie They have one face with a metal foil that protects the spheres. The mtb's use would certainly have required waterproof bearings on both sides, ie the series 2RS.
> So I ordered new sealed bearings, only that I took the type "max" that is, with increased number of balls (I want to stay quiet for a while 'time!)
> ...


Question for you on these bearings. The pivot at the rear swing arm, where the rear axle is, is only a bushing on my bike. At least from what I can remember when I pulled everything apart to grease it.

Did you replace the bushings with bearings? Or did your frame have bearings there from the start?

Great info BTW.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Mines bearing and has been from tge start? 


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> Mines bearing and has been from tge start?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


I'll have to double check mine. I swore I took pictures and didn't see any bearings at that location.


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

hidperf said:


> Did you replace the bushings with bearings? Or did your frame have bearings there from the start?


Mine came with bearings throughout, two of them were a bit crunchy on arrival but the swingarm moves freely enough so I didn't bother replacing them.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I forgot to mention this. 

When I first built my bike, I forgot to order pedals, grips, and a saddle. So I just used take-off parts I had laying around. After swapping the take-off items for ones that I really wanted, I got the bike down to 26.15lbs now. That's pretty much as light as I can get it without replacing new items purchased just for this build. 

I'm OK with that weight I think.


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## Goohead (Apr 27, 2011)

Hi I was interested in picking up one of these frames, can anyone recommend the best place to buy one for price, and warranty support? I see on post one mentions hongfu and I saw in another thread there was mentions of xiamen. 

Any help is appreciated


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

hidperf said:


> Question for you on these bearings. The pivot at the rear swing arm, where the rear axle is, is only a bushing on my bike. At least from what I can remember when I pulled everything apart to grease it.
> 
> Did you replace the bushings with bearings? Or did your frame have bearings there from the start?
> 
> Great info BTW.


The frame came from the factory with all bearings


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## NYCDiesel (Jun 13, 2013)

Any heavy people/clydes on these ? Was thinking about building one up for all mountain duties but I weigh 265lbs geared up, mostly cruising up and down with 3'-4' jumps and drops here and there.

Also can a clyde have this built up durable for around 2k ?


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## NYCDiesel (Jun 13, 2013)

Goohead said:


> Hi I was interested in picking up one of these frames, can anyone recommend the best place to buy one for price, and warranty support? I see on post one mentions hongfu and I saw in another thread there was mentions of xiamen.
> 
> Any help is appreciated


 xx2


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

NYCDiesel said:


> xx2


I got mine from flyxii.com, paid with paypal and it shipped the day after, took two days to get to the UK then two weeks to get through customs.
I can't attest as to warranty but they did send me an extra mech hanger for free.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Flyxii has only 3k gloss finish frame, if you like UD or matt finish, you have to contact hong-fu, miracle, deng-fu, etc. Anyway the best price you can find is on Flyxii.com


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

LoAl said:


> The frame came from the factory with all bearings





Dr.Galactus said:


> Mine came with bearings throughout, two of them were a bit crunchy on arrival but the swingarm moves freely enough so I didn't bother replacing them.





vwsurfbum said:


> Mines bearing and has been from tge start?


Do any of you guys have pictures of your rear most pivot, near the rear axle?


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

hidperf said:


> Do any of you guys have pictures of your rear most pivot, near the rear axle?


Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er - Mtbr Mountain Bike Photo Gallery


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

some pics of lower part of seat stay:
you can see the hole for the bearing housing


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## pikeymick (Apr 14, 2009)

@xc biker I had a friend look at it who does a lot of carbon fiber manufacturing, and after talking with the manufacturer, I think I'm going to ride it until it fails. The shipping to send stuff back just isn't worth it. 

But I have all almost all the parts in now, and when I get home Sunday night I'm going to wrap up the build!


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

LoAl said:


> The frame came from the factory with all bearings





Dr.Galactus said:


> Mine came with bearings throughout, two of them were a bit crunchy on arrival but the swingarm moves freely enough so I didn't bother replacing them.





vwsurfbum said:


> Mines bearing and has been from tge start?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta





ypocat said:


> Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er - Mtbr Mountain Bike Photo Gallery





LoAl said:


> some pics of lower part of seat stay:
> you can see the hole for the bearing housing


Hmm..maybe I just didn't bother taking mine apart far enough.

Here is the only pictures I have of my pivot

https://plus.google.com/photos/1019...5898816592700108930&oid=101936409299833436358

https://plus.google.com/photos/1019...5898816587697785266&oid=101936409299833436358


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## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

Pickeymick-
Good luck! Just be careful. A frame breaking on you while riding can cause you to have a really bad day. Unfortunately I learned that from experience. So just watch the crack and be careful.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Sorry hidperf, I can't see the photo


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## cloudbuster (Dec 14, 2011)

Where you buy this frame


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## Justin_W (Mar 27, 2013)

This may have been discussed in past posts but I have not been able to find a definitive answer. Are these frames being produced with the option of 12x142 ta rear? If so, which vendors are selling them? A buddy and I plan to build a couple up this winter for our adventure races and I plan on using several leftover parts from my king kahuna, including the wheelset that came stock.


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## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

please make the long list... thanks in advance...


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## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

checky said:


> Hi colleagues,
> 
> I would like to say MANY THANKS to all of you.
> 
> ...


Still sifting through this topic, but I saw you offered to make a long list of everything you have on the bike. Please direct me to it if you have, and if you haven't can you?

thanks in advance...


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## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

Hi, yes there is a Chinese 29er frame with 142+ rear end, I've seen it here on MTBR forums, it actually has a removable set of dropouts on the rear you can swap to regular QR, but the reason someone posted it is there were some problems with it....if you find it let me know I would love to talk to that factory about maybe ordering some for LaMere Cycles. I will try to find it too....


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## raymondy (Jul 16, 2013)

NYCDiesel said:


> Any heavy people/clydes on these ? Was thinking about building one up for all mountain duties but I weigh 265lbs geared up, mostly cruising up and down with 3'-4' jumps and drops here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im 5'8 220 with no issues


----------



## Justin_W (Mar 27, 2013)

Jp, I contacted a company that listed a 142 rear but the picture had 135 quick release. I will see what they say and get back to you.


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## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

I have a question to experts.
What will be different, if the frame Hongfu FM-036 29'' to put the plug and not more than 100mm, 120mm for example?
How to change the behavior of the bike?
How will it affect the suspension?
So you can do it or not?
What better to put the plug?
Which put the best rear shock absorber?
Thank you in advance for your reply.


----------



## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

I put 110mm of travel on that frame and loved it, the front end is just a little bit higher but so what....bike shops will tell you "oh no you can't do that it will mess up the geometry of the bike blah blah blah...." I say whatever, its fine, you're talking about 10mm....so I would say go for it with the 120mm, more travel is better, just pump it up more stiff, use less spacers on the steerer and maybe a drop angle stem if you feel its too high.


----------



## Marcus Kjellberg (Aug 9, 2013)

Justin_W said:


> Jp, I contacted a company that listed a 142 rear but the picture had 135 quick release. I will see what they say and get back to you.


HongFu said the new 142 rear hangerneed another 2 weeks. They are doing the raw finish now.


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## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

What a shock absorber for the suspension should be 2.65-3.05: 1 leverage ratio?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I would really like to see a replacement lower linkage that incorporates a 142mm throughaxle, because I'm starting to notice the flex during rough sections and hard cornering...


----------



## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

how can be sure that is the linkage and not the low pressure tubeless or the huge wheel ?



two-one said:


> I would really like to see a replacement lower linkage that incorporates a 142mm throughaxle, because I'm starting to notice the flex during rough sections and hard cornering...


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

em2 said:


> how can be sure that is the linkage and not the low pressure tubeless or the huge wheel ?


exactly that.

i'd say 142 is good when you do jumps so that it breaks less likely or later than 135 would.

my furious fred tyre in tubeless, when inflated below 19psi, i have to be careful with cornering as i feel the rear floating to the side.

also i just tightened a very loose spoke on my rear carbon wheel.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Because when I corner hard, and use the rear brake to scrub a little speed, I can feel the rear end grab tight.... and suddenly let go like a torqued catapult. When I stand still and hold the saddle and crank down, I can push the rear wheel sideways pretty easily.
A friend of mine has a Devinci Atlas with 142 axle, and it feels a whole lot stiffer when doing the same thing, and he uses a much thinner rim and lower pressures.


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

two-one said:


> Because when I corner hard, and use the rear brake to scrub a little speed, I can feel the rear end grab tight.... and suddenly let go like a torqued catapult. When I stand still and hold the saddle and crank down, I can push the rear wheel sideways pretty easily.
> A friend of mine has a Devinci Atlas with 142 axle, and it feels a whole lot stiffer when doing the same thing, and he uses a much thinner rim and lower pressures.


makes sense... well, only one way to find if 142 makes it better on this bike - by trying it out - and i'm curious.


----------



## xc biker (Dec 25, 2011)

As I was looking around the web at different asian bike manufacturers I found this:

ASTRO ENGINEERING CO., LTD Conatct

Its a carbon full-suspension 29er with 120mm of travel and a 12x124 thru-axle in the rear. Does anyone know anything about their bikes in general? Would anyone be willing to give this one a try?


----------



## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

that sounds like a soft wheel to me 
check for loose links or dropouts and the tension of your spokes



two-one said:


> Because when I corner hard, and use the rear brake to scrub a little speed, I can feel the rear end grab tight.... and suddenly let go like a torqued catapult. When I stand still and hold the saddle and crank down, I can push the rear wheel sideways pretty easily.
> A friend of mine has a Devinci Atlas with 142 axle, and it feels a whole lot stiffer when doing the same thing, and he uses a much thinner rim and lower pressures.


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

You Sir/Ma'am win an internet.
Shall be replacing mine once I've found replacement pivot bolts, 25kgf-cm my arse, sheared way lower than that.



LoAl said:


> Breaking news!
> I was bothered by noise from the pivots, despite the grease, so I removed all joints:
> in total there are 8 bearings, of which 3 were pretty much stuck, 2 were moved in steps and the remaining were still working, only showing signs of rust. The moral is that bearings are not sealed and of the mediocre quality. They are Z series, ie They have one face with a metal foil that protects the spheres. The mtb's use would certainly have required waterproof bearings on both sides, ie the series 2RS.
> So I ordered new sealed bearings, only that I took the type "max" that is, with increased number of balls (I want to stay quiet for a while 'time!)
> ...


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Yippee,

My 17.5 fm036 from Hongfu has arrived in UD matt, my second choice as I wanted 3k matt -oh never mind as UD is meant to be lightest?4.6lbs on my scales.Pictures coming soon.

Did look a little big on first look but trying to compare to my old steed it should all work out- not a fan of these half inch sizes at all being 5ft8. Frames all correct , hope shiney parts complement dull frame or i'll gloss it over next year.
Also got stung for £47.00 at customs,they opened box had a look and priced accordinglyto $130 invoice(around40%)- i guess-bare frame in dull matte not that suspicious-could be much worse- glad my lightbicycles wheels came through no probs- cant win them all!!!
Will start building next week as im using old parts plus waiting for smaller mounting hardware to use my 165millimeter vintage rockshox xc shock. Ordered direct mount(E-type) mech which was going for £9.00 in Lx.Also need headset reducer shim from Hope- i misunderstood the supplied headset is not shimmed to take 1/8th forks rather its for headtube shells with 1/8th bearing top and 1.5 at bottom.
Coming from a four bar linkage I was trying to see the rear seatstay pivot make the stay move but it does'nt seem to rotate about the axis at all, so not really seeing the point.hopefully it won't mean a less plush ride.

Only other concern is the fork mod i read about where i'll be using Fox 29 lowers on 26er RLC's internals.

Wish me luck!


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

Heres mine;

(click to embiggen)

Only done 450km so far but it's been great for that, comes in at 12.7kg but that's with very heavy seatpost/bars/stem while I get the fit right.

Only thing to break so far have been two of the seat stay bolts but that was me misreading torque values rather than them being faulty, 
Replaced the ones at the shock pivot end with: M6 Threaded insert tube 
M6 X 8 X 25 shoulder bolt  
M6 X 8 X 40 shoulder bolt , 
weighs in at 48g vs the 2x 12g originals but they won't be sheering anytime soon and fit just fine.


----------



## Dibbs_ (Feb 17, 2009)

Any other Chinese FS designs out there other than this one generic Scalpel type rip-off?


----------



## kearnsafix (Mar 21, 2007)

Nice! I love the mummified Lefty!


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

Dr.Galactus said:


> Heres mine;
> 
> (click to embiggen)
> 
> ...


I can't quite tell from your photo, but I've seen it on all the other photos of this frame. do you have to have 5" of stackers above the head tube to make this frame work? Seams like everyone who has this bike has done the same thing. Is there anyone out there who has 1" of spacers or less then the stem on this frame????


----------



## Dibbs_ (Feb 17, 2009)

Carolee said:


> Anyone want a turbocharger? We can offer more than 3000 kinds of turbochargers and their spare partshttp://www.turbochargerx.com/?sid=D69A5DA8
> Contact: [email protected] SKYPE: Carolee1026


Will it fit on the chainstays?...


----------



## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

scentofreason said:


> I can't quite tell from your photo, but I've seen it on all the other photos of this frame. do you have to have 5" of stackers above the head tube to make this frame work? Seams like everyone who has this bike has done the same thing. Is there anyone out there who has 1" of spacers or less then the stem on this frame????


I run 20mm of spacers and it handles well. I started with more and reduced over time to get the right feel. Any more and the front end felt to high on climbs


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

Better view of the steerer setup;

(click to embiggen)

I have to run 15mm of spacers with a 70mm -6º stem or the bars hit the top of the lefty, a longer stem and I could have it on top of where the lefty joins the steerer.

The overly long steerer, random stem and spacers are while I'm still fiddling with fit.


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

Dr.Galactus said:


> Better view of the steerer setup;
> 
> (click to embiggen)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the alternate photo view. It really clears things up. Once you decide on the perfect stem location, you could cut the steerer down to make it look normal. Perfect.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

*First Rides*

Wow,

Took my 95% complete Hongfu out on a test run since its sunny in the UK at the moment.WOW!! its a magic carpet, had reservations about the faux bar compared to my old four bar, but this suspension was smooth and controlled even with my basic Rockshox xc shock designed some 10 years or so ago.
In tight twisty singletrack it was no different to my 26er and nothing fazed this beast. Speed wise i couldn't say i was travelling faster than usual only possibly on my way back outta Epping Forest, I sensed that I had used less energy on the ride. A short technical uphill section was tackled easily and without too much thought where usually it was easy to stall a bike midway up due to roots. 
Sizing wise this bike is good for 5ft 8 people, although I still think a 16inch version(if they produced one)would be spot on as I love high seatposts and im just about touching the ground when sag is induced at the back. I was not overstretched although i will try a shorter negative stem in the future.
I still need to set up front derailer and buy new hose length to route rear brake as it should be.
Gonna do proer Sunday run tomorrow and see if it gets any remarks from the regulars. Bike came in at 24.6 ibs about pound lighter than previous alloy bike.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

some pictures, also i can't view thumbnails on this site anymore can anyone suggest what I can do??


----------



## Dimon Hell (Jul 12, 2013)

Did you saw new chinese FS carbon frame? I'll get myself one this winter!
142x12 rear axle, normal FD direct mount and new geometry!


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Who makes this one? Got a link?



Dimon Hell said:


> Did you saw new chinese FS carbon frame? I'll get myself one this winter!
> 142x12 rear axle, normal FD direct mount and new geometry!
> View attachment 828883


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

scentofreason said:


> I can't quite tell from your photo, but I've seen it on all the other photos of this frame. do you have to have 5" of stackers above the head tube to make this frame work? Seams like everyone who has this bike has done the same thing. Is there anyone out there who has 1" of spacers or less then the stem on this frame????


I left a bunch of length on my steer tube so I could fine tune the stack height/bar height. You don't have to do that if you know exactly how/where you want your stem and bars to be.


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

Looks pretty cool, when this frame explodes in a shower of kittens as we're constantly being told they will I'll get one 

More pictures;



































> Specifications
> 
> carbon MTB full suspension 29er frame
> BB:BB68/BB73/BB30
> ...


- 2013 Specialized Full Suspension Carbon 29er Frame,Carbon 29er Full Susension Frame 650b - Buy Carbon Suspension 29er Frame,29er Frame Full Suspension,Full Suspension Carbon Mtb 29er Frame Product on Alibaba.com

Looks like it has internal routing through the chainstays and much better clearance for bottles


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

Dr.Galactus said:


> Looks pretty cool, when this frame explodes in a shower of kittens as we're constantly being told they will I'll get one
> 
> More pictures;
> 
> ...


Nice looking frame. Two questions:

1) When will you have a 21" size frame available? (I'm 6'-4").

2) What is the frame weight (without shock)?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

The frame is way too short for my taste....


----------



## Dimon Hell (Jul 12, 2013)

Weight promised about 2.2 kg without rear shock.
Selled on Aliexpress for 750$.
I'm thinking - try to get one, or take Merida BIG NINETY-NINE XT-M... Aluminium, but 650$ with DT rear shock, with 5 years warranty, with DT rear axle... I'm not shure...


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

scentofreason said:


> Nice looking frame. Two questions:
> 
> 1) When will you have a 21" size frame available? (I'm 6'-4").
> 
> 2) What is the frame weight (without shock)?


1) Pretty sure I never will (I don't sell them)

2) No idea atm


----------



## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

Do any of the Chinese mfg make a dual pivot/CVA/DW Link style frame? 

(as opposed to single pivot)


----------



## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

squareback said:


> Do any of the Chinese mfg make a dual pivot/CVA/DW Link style frame?
> 
> (as opposed to single pivot)


Out of the deep respect they have for IP/copyrights I think they are staying away.

:band:


----------



## c_klein87 (Apr 28, 2013)

Eurobike '13: Chiru 29"ers & "Nine-Seven" Bikes looks familiar,but different, neater rear triangle!?


----------



## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

it has trail bike's geometry, not race...


----------



## thrill21 (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm looking to upgrade my hardtail to FS. Noticed today on Ebay, prices are coming down for the FS Carbon from China, lowest price I have seen is $707 usd, unless someone here know's to get it cheaper...


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

$700 delivered
http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=336&id=601

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## thrill21 (Aug 27, 2013)

Thanks for the link, unfortunately, he only has 21" frames...


----------



## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

meltingfeather said:


> Out of the deep respect they have for IP/copyrights I think they are staying away.


LOL!

So how much rear travel would this frame have? 
Size shock?

thanks


----------



## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimon Hell said:


> Did you saw new chinese FS carbon frame? I'll get myself one this winter!
> 142x12 rear axle, normal FD direct mount and new geometry!
> View attachment 828883


So is this the most "all mountain / trail" carbon 29er so far in this thread?


----------



## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

perhaps this new frame should have its own thread?


----------



## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

LOL that the Alibaba link actually says "Specialized" Carbon Fiber bike.


----------



## pgleed (Sep 16, 2013)

wconcretej said:


> some pictures, also i can't view thumbnails on this site anymore can anyone suggest what I can do??


Does anyone know if someone has completed the ABSA Cape Epic on a chinese dual sus frame?


----------



## client_9 (Apr 28, 2009)

PeterQ said:


> Yeap, IP-098 is new full suspension 29er frame only for 142x12 rear axle.












Is this s'pose to be a copy of the Specialized Enduro?

If so, shouldn't the head tube angle be more slack to accommodate a longer fork?

Anyone know what length shock this takes?

thanks.


----------



## slo_rider (Mar 22, 2007)

jplamere1 said:


> Hi, yes there is a Chinese 29er frame with 142+ rear end, I've seen it here on MTBR forums, it actually has a removable set of dropouts on the rear you can swap to regular QR, but the reason someone posted it is there were some problems with it....if you find it let me know I would love to talk to that factory about maybe ordering some for LaMere Cycles. I will try to find it too....


Well, there are quite a few posts on the Chinese carbon hardtail 29er thread with removable rear dropouts for both 10x135 and 12x142 rear axles, but they're hardtails.

I just wanted to call your attention to this Taiwanese carbon 29er full suspension frame that was posted: 120mm rear travel, 12x142 rear axle, and what appears to be a virtual pivot/mini-link rear suspension.

No geo info on their site, but it looks like its more of a trail-bike as opposed to XC racer, which is good to see IMHO.

Maybe it's too soon to see "open source" Asian CF 29er frames catering to the aggressive trail/enduro segment of the market, but I'm curious to see if it's geo is more modern than Niner's 2014 alloy RIP 9, which unfortunately still has a steep 70 degree HA (w 120mm fork) and long 17.9" chainstays that haven't progressed significantly since the RIP debuted 7 years ago.


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

slo_rider said:


> Well, there are quite a few posts on the Chinese carbon hardtail 29er thread with removable rear dropouts for both 10x135 and 12x142 rear axles, but they're hardtails.
> 
> I just wanted to call your attention to this Taiwanese carbon 29er full suspension frame that was posted: 120mm rear travel, 12x142 rear axle, and what appears to be a virtual pivot/mini-link rear suspension.
> 
> ...


I emailed this company directly last week, and to date have not heard a peep out of them. I'm not sure they are still in business, but if they are, customer service is lacking... But if any one has any info on this frame, please post... Need to know what sizes available, how much the frame costs, if there is internal cable routing...


----------



## Ubu2 (Sep 13, 2010)

scentofreason said:


> I emailed this company directly last week, and to date have not heard a peep out of them. I'm not sure they are still in business, but if they are, customer service is lacking... But if any one has any info on this frame, please post... Need to know what sizes available, how much the frame costs, if there is internal cable routing...


I think that's a Btb company&#8230;


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

Ubu2 said:


> I think that's a Btb company&#8230;


btb company????


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Business to business

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4


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## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

pgleed said:


> Does anyone know if someone has completed the ABSA Cape Epic on a chinese dual sus frame?


I know BOOTH BIKES carbon bicycles and components from BOOTH BIKES built a whole lot that sailed through the Epic. Contact Rob, he'll fill you in.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

I just ordered the HF-FM036 from Hung Fu with 142*12mm rear axle =)


----------



## scentofreason (Aug 3, 2013)

What shock will you be using? Where did you get the shock (bike shop, internet, direct from manufacturer?)


----------



## osamaal (Oct 3, 2013)

*Review of Full carbon fiber 29er suspension mountain from AliBaba*

Hi guys. This post is really helpful. So did any of you end up buying









Full carbon fiber 29er suspension mountain bike with Deore XT 30 speed groupset, View 29er carbon mountain bike, Laplace Product Details from Shenzhen GUB Bike Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

how did it go, what are you impressions?

I'm seriously considering getting one, it will be my first major investment in a bike. I was thinking between it and the Giant Trance SX 27.5.

I need to climb and descend on very rough and rocky terrain, but don't do a lot of jumps. I'm guessing I need 150mm of travel.. what is the travel on that bike as it is not immediately clear.

Thanks so much!


----------



## pgleed (Sep 16, 2013)

eriklanden said:


> I just ordered the HF-FM036 from Hung Fu with 142*12mm rear axle =)


Hi Erik,

What shipping did you use for this purchase?


----------



## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

The Carbonal Titan then.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Anyone who has the 17.5 frame, what length stem are you using? I know it will vary, but I'm kind of curious on setups. I'm 5'10" and I'm using the 100mm Flyxi/T3 carbon stem but I'm thinking of going shorter, maybe to a 90mm.


----------



## Pepperagge (Feb 25, 2004)

*New Carbonal FS frame "Titan"*

Anybody considered or bought the newer FS frame from Carbonal?














It has slightly slacker headtube angle and 2mm shorter chain stay. The front der. mount is on the seat tube. According to my eyes the main pivot placement is slightly further to the rear compared to the Hong Fu/Flyxxi-frame. The longer top tube and slacker angle makes the wheelbase longer. Unfortunality 135mm rear only.

Better or worse than the "old" one?

Any thoughts are most appreciated.

/P


----------



## robgall13 (Nov 30, 2012)

Look in the other Chinese 29er thread, a guy there has built a Carbonal Titan up.


----------



## Pepperagge (Feb 25, 2004)

Ok, thanks.


----------



## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

hidperf said:


> Anyone who has the 17.5 frame, what length stem are you using? I know it will vary, but I'm kind of curious on setups. I'm 5'10" and I'm using the 100mm Flyxi/T3 carbon stem but I'm thinking of going shorter, maybe to a 90mm.


70. 90 is just really long. It may feel cramped at first, but I think it works better overall.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

squareback said:


> 70. 90 is just really long. It may feel cramped at first, but I think it works better overall.


I made the mistake of picking the same stem length as my road bike, which is why I have the 100mm now. 70mm though? Maybe I'll pick up a couple and try them. I just rode my buddies 2014 Enduro 29er and he has a 70. The bike felt so "twitchy". Granted, it's a completely different bike.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

pgleed said:


> Hi Erik,
> 
> What shipping did you use for this purchase?


Hong FU shipped with EMS, took exactly 10 days to Sweden. My frame has interchangeable dropouts, 9mm QR and troughaxle.


----------



## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm also running a 70mm, I got it as it was the cheapest one on CRC so I could get it built up while waiting for a RETUL fit but after 1000km~ish it's been good. It's also luckily the shortest length that will fit on a lefty with flat bars.



hidperf said:


> I made the mistake of picking the same stem length as my road bike, which is why I have the 100mm now. 70mm though? Maybe I'll pick up a couple and try them. I just rode my buddies 2014 Enduro 29er and he has a 70. The bike felt so "twitchy". Granted, it's a completely different bike.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I ordered a 70mm and an 80mm off eBay. Based on a couple users feedback on here, I got the Kalloy Uno brand. So now I'll have a couple different ones I can try.



Dr.Galactus said:


> I'm also running a 70mm, I got it as it was the cheapest one on CRC so I could get it built up while waiting for a RETUL fit but after 1000km~ish it's been good. It's also luckily the shortest length that will fit on a lefty with flat bars.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

eriklanden said:


> Hong FU shipped with EMS, took exactly 10 days to Sweden. My frame has interchangeable dropouts, 9mm QR and troughaxle.


Can you show us a picture?


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Here are some pictures!


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks, thats excellent

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

Has anyone attempted to remove the headset cups from the frame?
I want to use a Cane Creek Angle Set but the cups appear to be glued into the frame. I'm not sure if I should just give it a bit of attention with a drift and rubber mallet?
Suggestions?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Komdotkom said:


> Has anyone attempted to remove the headset cups from the frame?
> I want to use a Cane Creek Angle Set but the cups appear to be glued into the frame. I'm not sure if I should just give it a bit of attention with a drift and rubber mallet?
> Suggestions?


The frame "cups" are an essential part of the frame, and CANNOT be removed/replaced. You can only change the bearings. There is a good reason it's called an "Integrated headset"


----------



## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

two-one said:


> The frame "cups" are an essential part of the frame, and CANNOT be removed/replaced. You can only change the bearings. There is a good reason it's called an "Integrated headset"


I can't see how it makes any difference. The frame isn't made with the headset in place and it's glued in after the frame is removed from the mold.
If I remove the integrated aluminum section and replace it with another one there won't be any tangible difference. The only thing that concerns me is that they may have used some of the epoxy they use to lay up the frames to adhere the headset to the frame which may result in damage when removing the integrated section.
I'll muck around with it when my Carbine is ready so I can afford to have it in bits.


----------



## dougcw_1 (Sep 7, 2012)

*Weird noises in the frame*

Hi, 
First I love my Chinese carbon, the bike i have build is extremely fast both down and up hill. Now i treat my bike more as a all mountain or even a down hill bike at times prob more then a XC bike. I have had it over a year now and have developed a issue that i cant solve hoping someone else has this and can help me. It has started making a weird creak almost like upset carbon when i am cranking down hard. Now first i assumed this was the BB so i put a new one in, no luck. Then i knew the head set was on its way out so replaced that (really needed to almost fell to bits when i took it off) still no luck. there are no obvious marks/cracks in the carbon, so anyone got a clue?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I didt exactly the same, it was the pedal, only shows up on really hard pedaling

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## em2 (Dec 3, 2010)

dougcw_1 said:


> Hi,
> First I love my Chinese carbon, the bike i have build is extremely fast both down and up hill. Now i treat my bike more as a all mountain or even a down hill bike at times prob more then a XC bike. I have had it over a year now and have developed a issue that i cant solve hoping someone else has this and can help me. It has started making a weird creak almost like upset carbon when i am cranking down hard. Now first i assumed this was the BB so i put a new one in, no luck. Then i knew the head set was on its way out so replaced that (really needed to almost fell to bits when i took it off) still no luck. there are no obvious marks/cracks in the carbon, so anyone got a clue?


saddle rails at the saddle joints 
seatpost in the frame 
pedals 
stem at steerer 
handlebar at stem 
crank arm at axle


----------



## dougcw_1 (Sep 7, 2012)

Pedals are worth a look at didnt think of that stem and steerer all been checked (given that part of the bike was completely pulled apart a few days ago). Still makes the sound when standing so prob not seat or seat post. Again with crank arm pulled apart in the last week as-well. So will try another set of pedals and see if it still does it thanks for the help


----------



## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

Fixed this on mine last week, main pivot bearings were dry.


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

*Back Wheel*



dougcw_1 said:


> Hi,
> First I love my Chinese carbon, the bike i have build is extremely fast both down and up hill. Now i treat my bike more as a all mountain or even a down hill bike at times prob more then a XC bike. I have had it over a year now and have developed a issue that i cant solve hoping someone else has this and can help me. It has started making a weird creak almost like upset carbon when i am cranking down hard. Now first i assumed this was the BB so i put a new one in, no luck. Then i knew the head set was on its way out so replaced that (really needed to almost fell to bits when i took it off) still no luck. there are no obvious marks/cracks in the carbon, so anyone got a clue?


My XX cassette came loose and I swore it was the BB.
Put a friends back wheel on,and try it.


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

Komdotkom said:


> I can't see how it makes any difference. The frame isn't made with the headset in place and it's glued in after the frame is removed from the mold.
> If I remove the integrated aluminum section and replace it with another one there won't be any tangible difference. The only thing that concerns me is that they may have used some of the epoxy they use to lay up the frames to adhere the headset to the frame which may result in damage when removing the integrated section.
> I'll muck around with it when my Carbine is ready so I can afford to have it in bits.


I would like to use the Cane Creek Angle Set ! , Let me know how it works!
Sound like a good Idea.
My FM-056 29er hard tail with the 69.5 Head angle is a joy to ride in a technical down hill compared to my 2010 Air 9 with 71 degrees head angle.


----------



## stevemtu (Mar 29, 2006)

*creaking*



Big Foot said:


> My XX cassette came loose and I swore it was the BB.
> Put a friends back wheel on,and try it.


Yes, can be at the back wheel. Also make sure the hanger is tight and not bent/cracked. Also make sure the skewers are nice and tight


----------



## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

dougcw_1 said:


> Hi,
> First I love my Chinese carbon, the bike i have build is extremely fast both down and up hill. Now i treat my bike more as a all mountain or even a down hill bike at times prob more then a XC bike. I have had it over a year now and have developed a issue that i cant solve hoping someone else has this and can help me. It has started making a weird creak almost like upset carbon when i am cranking down hard. Now first i assumed this was the BB so i put a new one in, no luck. Then i knew the head set was on its way out so replaced that (really needed to almost fell to bits when i took it off) still no luck. there are no obvious marks/cracks in the carbon, so anyone got a clue?


might need a new freehub body. if you have another rear wheel swap it in and see if the sound goes away.


----------



## dougcw_1 (Sep 7, 2012)

Still no joy. Put different pedals on, tried another wheel, to add a we bit more info i can make the noise without pedalling it almost seams like its the sideways movement on the frame causing it. What is the maintenance for the main pivot bearings? not sure whats under there but is sounding more likely the cause, another maybe cause would the aluminium cups that the BB treads into coming lose from the frame, not sure how this would happen or why just another idea.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Quick update. 

I originally built my bike with a 100mm carbon stem that I ordered with the bike. I figured I would probably change this at some point, but I didn't have any laying around so I started there. 

I installed it in the raised position and a set of 660mm riser bars that I also ordered with the frame. The bike has been flawless but I've never felt comfortable on it. I originally thought it was because of the extreme differences between my old bike (99 Giant Warp DS-2) and this new one. 

I ordered a pair of Kalloy Uno stems in 70mm and 80mm off eBay and I started with the new 70mm stem in the drop position (7deg) and still used my riser bars. What an unbelievable difference that made! The first ride with the new cockpit setup was at one of the more difficult trails I ride, which I was hoping wouldn't be a mistake or a day full of crashes. Within the first mile I knew that this was a whole new bike now. I rode with a buddy who normally is way ahead of me and he made several comments on how he couldn't keep up with me on the downhills and even on the rolling parts of the trail. The bike felt so much more comfortable and I felt more in control, like I could lift the front when needed, throw it around more and I didn't feel like I was always going over the bars. 

It made such a dramatic difference in my riding, that my buddy might try my 80mm stem I picked up.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Peter from Xmiplay,
I do not see any information on your web site about the IP-005

What is the difference between the IP-005 and the IP-036?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

hidperf said:


> Quick update.
> 
> I originally built my bike with a 100mm carbon stem that I ordered with the bike. I figured I would probably change this at some point, but I didn't have any laying around so I started there.
> 
> ...


I use a 70mm stem and 700mm bars combined wuth a dropper post, makes the bike a very playful and efficient beast

www.pedal-worx.co.uk


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> I use a 70mm stem and 700mm bars combined wuth a dropper post, makes the bike a very playful and efficient beast
> 
> Welcome to Pedal-Worx


I've been thinking of a dropper but that will have to wait for a while.

Your original post on this bike is what made me decide to build it. Thanks!


----------



## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

We are testing this frame since 5 months and had a lot of issues! This frame needs some modifications to work as we expect. But that's certanly a personal thing...



PeterQ said:


> Yeap, IP-098 is new full suspension 29er frame only for 142x12 rear axle.


----------



## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

Wow, I had one on order  Could you share what are those issues you've faced?



maettu said:


> We are testing this frame since 5 months and had a lot of issues! This frame needs a lot of modifications to work as peoples expect...


----------



## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

I don't want to throw with dirt here. Not everybody has the same understanding of quality vs price. We had problems with rear brake mount und front mech mount and re-engineered the most of the pivots of this frame and changed a lot of parts like bearings and screws. Now we sent all the improvement recommendations to our contact person.

There are several "agencies" selling this frame and it's not clear if the frames are all exactly the same. Therefore I don't want to go more deeply into the details.

All we hope is that our improvement recommendations will take place in production of this frame...


----------



## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

Very helpful insight there. Since it's too late for me now to cancel my order, will just wait for it to see if frame is ok. Obviously my supplier is different from yours and hence there's chance issues are not there.

At any rate, it's less troubling to know those issues are not fundamental (like weak or fake carbon material) and can be remedied by replacing or re-engineering the parts though would have certainly affected my decision to buy had I known them before.

I would just treat it as one of risk costs in buying a newly introduced frame.



maettu said:


> I don't want to throw with dirt here. Not everybody has the same understanding of quality vs price. We had problems with rear brake mount und front mech mount and re-engineered the most of the pivots of this frame and changed a lot of parts like bearings and screws. Now we sent all the improvement recommendations to our contact person.
> 
> There are several "agencies" selling this frame and it's not clear if the frames are all exactly the same. Therefore I don't want to go more deeply into the details.
> 
> All we hope is that our improvement recommendations will take place in production of this frame...


----------



## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

You have understood this correctly. The frame is absolutely safe to ride as far as we can judge this. You probably have to deal with play, lot of creacking noise and other stuff. But nothing that might riding this frame dangerous!
Examples:
- Weak pivots have also an impact to stiffness
- We would like to see modifications to add a bigger brake disc than 160mm on the rear end.



Padyakero said:


> Very helpful insight there. Since it's too late for me now to cancel my order, will just wait for it to see if frame is ok. Obviously my supplier is different from yours and hence there's chance issues are not there.
> 
> At any rate, it's less troubling to know those issues are not fundamental (like weak or fake carbon material) and can be remedied by replacing or re-engineering the parts though would have certainly affected my decision to buy had I known them before.
> 
> I would just treat it as one of risk costs in buying a newly introduced frame.


----------



## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Oh btw guys whitch BB30 borrom bracket should i use to set XX1 crankset? I've read SRAM is pretty bad =(


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Personally, I would not use a pressed in BB30 on a mountain bike. 
On a road bike, yes

Many mechanics I have talked to would not have a BB30 either on a mountain bike.

I installed a 175mm 168Q threaded BB on both my XX1 carbon bikes.
The bottom brackets I used comes with the XX1 group

Here's is the link to my IP-036 dual carbon build
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

El34 said:


> Personally, I would not use a pressed in BB30 on a mountain bike.
> On a road bike, yes
> 
> Many mechanics I have talked to would not have a BB30 either on a mountain bike.
> ...


Could you pls make it clear to me cuz it will be my first custom build and i'm noob 
1) Can i use gxp bottom bracket with BSA?
2) I already have XX1 175mm 156 q-factor bb30/pf30 crankset. Can i still use it if i get the frame with BSA and gxp bottom bracket?


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

horseinthesky said:


> Could you pls make it clear to me cuz it will be my first custom build and i'm noob
> 1) Can i use gxp bottom bracket with BSA?
> 2) I already have XX1 175mm 156 q-factor bb30/pf30 crankset. Can i still use it if i get the frame with BSA and gxp bottom bracket?


1) yes

2) no bb30 crank will NOT work with GXP/BSA. The crank spindle on a BB30 larger in diameter and will not fit through a GXP bb or BSA style bb shell. 
It would work the other way round with adapters.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

funnyjr said:


> 2) no bb30 crank will NOT work with GXP/BSA. The crank spindle on a BB30 larger in diameter and will not fit through a GXP bb or BSA style bb shell.
> It would work the other way round with adapters.


So i guess i should better buy another crankset. Does the chainrings of bb30 xx1 crankset compatible with gxp xx1 crankset?


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

Straight seat-tube 29er?

Anyone buy the straight seat tube full suspension 29er frame? Seems like all the pictures I see and reviews deal with the frame with the bent seat-tube. Geometry seems almost the same, just slightly different Front-center and ETT.


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

em2 said:


> saddle rails at the saddle joints
> seatpost in the frame
> pedals
> stem at steerer
> ...


derailleur hanger


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

Came across these rebranded Chinese frames ...... 29er | Carbon | Full-Suspension - Switchback Bikes

the bottom bracket junction look very similar to the straight tube Chinese frames ...29er MTB Frames Full Suspentision Mountain Bike Frames Full Carbon Bicycle Parts | eBay


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Ottoreni said:


> Came across these rebranded Chinese frames ...... 29er | Carbon | Full-Suspension - Switchback Bikes
> 
> the bottom bracket junction look very similar to the straight tube Chinese frames ...29er MTB Frames Full Suspentision Mountain Bike Frames Full Carbon Bicycle Parts | eBay


The top ones are different asin the top tube and travel


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

I just signed up here specifically to get involved in this discussion.
I read the whole thread, and the Chinese HT one too. I see a number of successful builds.
I have a roadbike, and a hardtail 29er playbike, but it gets rough sometimes on some terrain and fast decents.
This thread has got me thinking.
I am short at 5'4" and a short legged 29" inseam. I see most of these builds were on the 17.5" size...has anyone built a small 15" one?
It seems the newest ones are setup for a 200 mm shock...if that were paired with a longer travel 140-150mm fork, would it make a good AM/FR type of bike that could do some mild DH too? It would be my first dual suspension bike.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Just because the shock is 200mm i2i doesn't meant its big travel, I think its still only 120mm and with that big a fork at the front I think it will put the handling right off?


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

I think many AM and DH bikes are engineered to have lazy handling via raked geometry anyways for stability.....if a longer fork would lift the bike's nose and rake it out, wouldn't it serve the same purpose? I have a hardtail for technical and more XC type of riding....so I don't think I'd mind if the full suspended bike turned slower.

Price point has a pretty good full build $1600 XT package with a Manitou fork that can be setup for anywhere between 100 and 140mm.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a 140mm Float 29 on the front of my IP-036
The front end is not lazy feeling or twitchy.
It handles great and is very stable on the downhills here in Pisgah Forest

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638

There is another Chinese carbon frame out there that may be better for downhill.
It looks a bit beefier than the IP-036
I saw pics of it here in this thread somewhere


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

El34 said:


> I have a 140mm Float 29 on the front of my IP-036
> The front end is not lazy feeling or twitchy.
> It handles great and is very stable on the downhills here in Pisgah Forest
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638


If not too much trouble, can you measure your unsagged head tube angle and bottom bracket height? 
I am just curious as to what real world measurements are versus the geo sheet. I am sitting on the fence right now about getting this frame.
The 71 degree head angle has me worried on the spec sheet.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

68.5 degrees on the head tube using one of those round angle finders
12.125 inches from floor to bottom of bottom bracket shell


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

This is the bike I am considering:

2013 Newest bicycle 29er Full Carbon Fiber Suspension Mountain MTB Bike Bcycle Frame,OEM Carbon Suspension MTB bike frame., View 29er carbon suspension mountain bike frame, Product Details from Feel (Shenzhen) Technology Co., Limited on Alibaba.com

For a price similar to Hobgoblin money, you can get carbon and about 5 lbs lighter this way......and if you want to add the acrbon China wheels, you can prob get closer to 8 lbs lighter.

If I ordered sometime early in 2014, it would take me a few months to save enough scratch to buy the components I need anyways, because really, this isn;t a bike I need...it's something I want. And I think it'd be very cool to try building a bike from parts as I have never tried before.

I raced bikes 25 yrs ago, (Bianchi road bike and a Fisher CR-7/XT) and was pretty good at it. I hadn't really been near a bike for more than a ride to the store since high school, however, I am excited getting back into it. I just turned 40 the other day and am not at a pace where I rode 27 kms of varried terrain last wknd in 70 mins.....I am a bit of a spec whore and would like a nice bike, that is personal to me. Once you have driven a Mercedes, who wants to drive a Hyundai?

As for the 68.5 degree head angle, that is with a fork that is longer than reccommended. WIth a 100mm fork it prob would be at their 71 degree spec. That is exactly what I am wanting to do as well...the longer fork will make the head angle a little lazier by lifting the nose of the bike a little. I am thinking it would be nice to be able to use this bike as an affordable intro to light DH and AM.......a bike that can handle jumps and drops without breaking the bank. And being a 29er it should roll over stuff fantastic and soak up anything it doesn't roll right over.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

El34 said:


> 68.5 degrees on the head tube using one of those round angle finders
> 12.125 inches from floor to bottom of bottom bracket shell
> 
> View attachment 850725


Many thanks for the info.

This has me thinking, if I run this frame with a 120mm fork, my HA should be around 69.5 unsagged ....around 70.5 sagged, which will not be as twitchy. 
The BB height should be around 7-8 mm lower than yours.


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

You mean less twitchy than it would with a 100mm fork? Or less twitchy than El34's bike with a 140mm fork?


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

omnivore said:


> The longer the fork-the less twitchy.
> The shorter fork, the steeper the head angle, the more twitchy.
> Your thinking is backwards


Sorry must have not clarified my point. Geo spec sheet has unsagged HA at 71 degrees. I am looking at the frame with 120mm fork installed.

This would give me a sagged HA of 70.5 - 71 degrees based on the El34's measurement. Less twitchy than the geo sheet.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

omnivore, yes that is the frame I saw that I thought would be a better DH candidate.

As for my IP-036 with the 140mm fork

I keep the air pressure pretty low in that Float 29 in order to get as much cush out of it as I can without bottoming out.
The air pressure is below 50 pounds and just high enough that it does not bottom out on the biggest hits.
So the head angle is not as steep when I am sitting on the bike
But I like the big cushy front end on the rough stuff and the bike feels great with the 140mm

My Float 29 fork came set up as 120mm on my yeti SB95
I took out the spacer inside the left leg and made it into 140mm and moved the fork over to the IP-036

The Yeti SB95 frame is for sale on ebay
Yeti Cycles SB95 2012 Small 16 5 inch Excellent Condition | eBay


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## mrloneranger (Jul 25, 2005)

I've just pulled the trigger!! Although a 26er from Hong Fu. 

I've even gone for the carbon seat post, stem, flat bars and bottle cages. After reading this thread I convinced myself I needed to ditch my 04 Stumpjumper FSR and go carbon. 

Most of the components will hopefully drop straight on. My Rp23 is 165x38, front fork will need some kind of reducer as it's not tapered. 

I need to get myself some carbon paste, a new front mech, full length gear cables and maybe some new hydraulic lines. 

On the front mech... Do I need a E-Type or E2-Type?? What is the difference?

Good work on this thread!!


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

omnivore said:


> This thread has got me thinking.
> I am short at 5'4" and a short legged 29" inseam. I see most of these builds were on the 17.5" size...has anyone built a small 15" one?.


Please, please do not buy a 17.5(hongfu fm036). Im 5ft 8 and against my gut instinct I went with 17.5. pulling the frame out the box I knew it was too big. Not massively but enough to make me wanna sell the frame now. yes I built frame up and although I never really suffered from over reaching, i rode with what I would call a sense of not having perfect control/cockpit /seatpost height blah blah. Loal in my opinion has the perfect set up for the 17.5 bike and they're 5ft10. With your height you'll probably really have to customise things but 15.5 size will be as good as it gets with these frames.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

mrloneranger said:


> I've just pulled the trigger!! Although a 26er from Hong Fu.
> 
> !!


Sorry to hate on a 26er!! but i was reluctant to wheel change(aethestics really) until I saw this frame built up- namely Loal's ride- and had to get one because 1.) no one wins my races on 26ers 2.) If 29ers fall outta fashion I could slip 27.5 wheels on it 3.)It was cheaper than brands.

The 29er is the way forward with no drawbacks for me! 27.5 has its merits but 26ers I can say with hand on heart for XC duties, competively at least, is a old skool now!

Change your order before it's too late.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

wconcretej said:


> Please, please do not buy a 17.5. Im 5ft 8 and against my gut instinct I went with 17.5. pulling the frame out the box I knew it was too big.


I'm 5.8 ish with a 30 inch inseam
My 17.5" IP-036 fits me perfectly

A 15.5 would be very cramped


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

Agreed. $1,800 sram x9 build :

BAMF **** Kicker 29er Mountain Bike - Giantnerd®

or...


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

What size??? If XL, look no further. Here's the best deal...CF...FS...nice build!

GT Bikes Zaskar Carbon 100 Pro Bike 2012 > Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

You can't buy these parts for cheaper then that. All these companies in China are likely small suspect manufacturers. If you look hard enough, you'll find a great deal. The market is kinda played at this point. You will pay 10-20% more for BRAND name build out...likely less like the deal I posted earlier. Do you want to go through the aggravation...and potential future headaches? your call!


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

If I order, it will be a small frame for sure, no question about it. I am quite short and 150 lbs.
My current 26" hardtail is a 15"...My 29er hardtail is a 16". My last really nice bike was 20 yrs ago, a full XT grouped Fisher CR-7, the first yr Shimano came out with trigger shifters.....it was a tiny, very stiff bike. I had to get Grafton rear brakes for the seaststays cuz my heels clipped the XT ones as I pedalled. I think it was a 13.5 or 14" frame, and I have small size 7 feet....hard to recall exact size .....(was a long time ago)


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

*My ip-036 build*

I am 5'7' and ordered small size (15') but when I got my frame I thought maybe better for me was the medium size (17').

With the small frame, I feel the reach is perfect with the 80mm stem, 350mm seat post maxed out and saddle pulled to the rear, though would prefer longer seat post to strengthen seat tube grip. Stand-over height is of no issue thanks to the new top tube design.

My issues are that with the small frame, the clearance between front tire and pedal seems to sit just at the minimum ( I have 120mm travel fork installed and my shoe size is 43), I had to always position my shoes properly in the pedal to avoid contact with tire. This may not be always possible for me when climbing uphill and specially that I prefer flat pedals rather than clip-on. I am thinking if maybe my fork is 140mm this will add clearance but maybe only very small.

Another is in the small frame (15'), the joint between toptube and set tube looks weaker than that in the size 17 where there is actually a small triangle with a gap inside. That gap inside the small triangle is absent in the size 15 frame as you can see on my picture and it is very useful in mounting the bike in carriers! I have to buy a bar to create a temporary toptube for mounting purposes in a car 

Lastly, the bar crossing between top tube and downtube to accomodate rearschock mount is small to fit the rearshock head that I have to install my fox CTD upside down. I am not sure if size 17 would have this issue.

Other than that I have no major issues like creaks that other buyers have complained of. My build rides great as can be expected in a new bike. Here is a pic of my build. In the second pic below, you could fairly pit it against the more expensive Ellsworth



omnivore said:


> If I order, it will be a small frame for sure, no question about it. I short and 150 lbs.
> My current 26" hardtail is a 15"...My 29er hardtail is a 16". My last really nice bike was 20 yrs ago, a Fisher CR-7....it was tiny. I had to get Grafton rear brakes cuz my heels clipped the XT ones as I pedalled. I think it was a 13.5 or 14" frame, and I have small size 7 feet....hard to recall exact size .....(was a long time ago)


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

Padyakero-thanks...I was really interested to see a built small one. Looks great. Standover height is one of the things I need- very short inseam. Is there a significant weight difference with the smaller frame?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Just to make clear, my choice of sizing refer to the hong-fu fm036 17.5.Now have a 15.5 on the way!!


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Padyakero said:


> Other than that I have no major issues like creaks that other buyers have complained of.


The weather conditions where you are living are of course quite different than here in Switzerland. As far as I can see you and your bike rarely see dirt and moisture...


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

What did you pay TOTAL for your build out? Sram? Shimano? XO?



Padyakero said:


> I am 5'7' and ordered small size (15') but when I got my frame I thought maybe better for me was the medium size (17').
> 
> With the small frame, I feel the reach is perfect with the 80mm stem, 350mm seat post maxed out and saddle pulled to the rear, though would prefer longer seat post to strengthen seat tube grip. Stand-over height is of no issue thanks to the new top tube design.
> 
> ...


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

omnivore said:


> If I order, it will be a small frame for sure, no question about it. I am quite short and 150 lbs.
> My current 26" hardtail is a 15"...My 29er hardtail is a 16". My last really nice bike was 20 yrs ago, a full XT grouped Fisher CR-7, the first yr Shimano came out with trigger shifters.....it was a tiny, very stiff bike. I had to get Grafton rear brakes for the seaststays cuz my heels clipped the XT ones as I pedalled. I think it was a 13.5 or 14" frame, and I have small size 7 feet....hard to recall exact size .....(was a long time ago)


I'm same size...Small 29ers are a bargain if you will go one year later. 2013's are already going down in price!


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

Niner Air 9 Carbon/SRAM X01 Complete Bike - 2013 | Competitive Cyclist

The Rims Frame and Suspension will cost ya more! Hardtail, but what a deal!


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

*Creaks*

#maettu, maybe you're right but my bike is just few weeks old. I should discover it better as I take more kilometers on it.



maettu said:


> The weather conditions where you are living are of course quite different than here in Switzerland. As far as I can see you and your bike rarely see dirt and moisture...


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## krisvm (May 12, 2013)

everything motorcycl said:


> Niner Air 9 Carbon/SRAM X01 Complete Bike - 2013 | Competitive Cyclist
> 
> The Rims Frame and Suspension will cost ya more! Hardtail, but what a deal!


Perfect, now just need to get that bike to Australia, tough when they say they wont ship to here.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

Just ride it there


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

A guy I work with is interested as well. Like me, he can't afford to buy a frame and complete component set all at once. He may end up going 26" so he can re-use most of the running gear from his current bike.
It may take me a yr after getting the frame to get it done, but that's okay by me. It will be a cool project. I intend to paint the frame up like a brand name bike as well- my own brand.


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## Gabe3 (Mar 13, 2009)

omnivore said:


> A guy I work with is interested as well. Like me, he can't afford to buy a frame and complete component set all at once. He may end up going 26" so he can re-use most of the running gear from his current bike.
> It may take me a yr after getting the frame to get it done, but that's okay by me. It will be a cool project. I intend to paint the frame up like a brand name bike as well- my own brand.


why not just save up the money and buy everything at once. a year from now there will be better parts for the money and possibly more frame designs.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

omnivore said:


> A guy I work with is interested as well. Like me, he can't afford to buy a frame and complete component set all at once. He may end up going 26" so he can re-use most of the running gear from his current bike.
> It may take me a yr after getting the frame to get it done, but that's okay by me. It will be a cool project. I intend to paint the frame up like a brand name bike as well- my own brand.





Gabe3 said:


> why not just save up the money and buy everything at once. a year from now there will be better parts for the money and possibly more frame designs.


and not just that, those high end parts you buy now will be cheaper in a years time


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

For the most part, they are more like computers, you 'usually' get your best deals complete! MFG find it easiest business method.


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Suspension Experts ..... 120mm Rear Shock?*

Looking at the frame geometry for the IP-036 frame. If I look at the frame geometry as a sagged chart for 120mm travel front and rear suspension, what rear shock measurements would work? I would imagine I would need a longer eye to eye measurement and slightly longer stroke. any suggestions?


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

Gabe3 said:


> why not just save up the money and buy everything at once. a year from now there will be better parts for the money and possibly more frame designs.


Its a matter of the two large expenses. A package with 120mm fork, and full XT group is $1700......and the frame is $700. No way would I pick up one component at a time. But the frame first will give me something to tinker with (painting, shock fitment, etc) while I save for the component group.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

krisvm said:


> Perfect, now just need to get that bike to Australia, tough when they say they wont ship to here.


sorry i missed this earlier, google myus or myusa One of the returns is a US mailing house. Register with them, they give you a us postal address. The goods get shipped to them and they contact you asking what you want done with them. You pay postage, comparable with most online stores, and they ship it to you. They can even buy for you so there is none of the " not a us cc" type nonsense. Good luck


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

*Fmo36 smaller frame rebuild for 5ft 8 Guy*

I've now received and almost built my second FM036 frame in 15.5. First impressions are this is gonna be amazing and fit me like a glove unlike the 17.5 I now have to get rid of!!

I also got a $673 shipped Black Friday deal from DIY-Carbon bike.com, which is the cheapest ever price seen for this frame to date. The Dollar to Pound rate also improved since my original purchase, which has helped cut my loss and the package sailed through customs this time round..PPhheeww!!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice,
Glad the 15.5 fits you


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Let me know about the old frame if you are selling...


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

..missing the top tube seat brace on 15.5 sizes, really like that bit of detail. oh well! looks less like a Specialized bike now.


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## Switchback Bikes (Dec 2, 2013)

Ottoreni said:


> Came across these rebranded Chinese frames ...... 29er | Carbon | Full-Suspension - Switchback Bikes
> 
> the bottom bracket junction look very similar to the straight tube Chinese frames ...29er MTB Frames Full Suspentision Mountain Bike Frames Full Carbon Bicycle Parts | eBay


@Ottoreni

Thanks for letting people know about Switchback Bikes....like to clarify something as there is a big difference between our frames, the manufacturers we work with, and the direct to consumer Chinese manufacturers in this thread.

I discuss the differences here The Pre-Prototype Stage - Switchback Bikes

Any questions or feedback about our Brand is more than welcome and much appreciated.

Thanks, Scott


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Pricing?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Battiato

Its the FM036 model under another name again,(DS069) available in 29er and 27.5version. What do I think! Buy it if the price is right. Also they sate a 17 inch version, which in the 29er is usually quoted as 17.5, so thisis maybe a mistake. From my experience tho, centre of BB to top of seat tube size15.5"is more 16" and 17.5" is more 18".


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## Switchback Bikes (Dec 2, 2013)

vwsurfbum said:


> Pricing?


Are you asking about pricing on our frames? If so, here is the link to the Product pages on our site 29er | 27.5 | Full-Suspension - Switchback Bikes

Thanks, Scott


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> The frame "cups" are an essential part of the frame, and CANNOT be removed/replaced. You can only change the bearings. There is a good reason it's called an "Integrated headset"


I want to replace my headset but I'm having a hard time figuring out what I need. 
The bearings I bought with the frame have these markings on them.

Lower bearing: 15 8HXOD52X45DEGX45DEG
Upper bearing: 6B 7HXOD41.8X45DEGX45DEG

I found some info on Crane Creeks site but it doesn't really match the markings on my bearings.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

hidperf said:


> I want to replace my headset but I'm having a hard time figuring out what I need.
> 
> Hi,
> Here's an Ebay link for the the lower 1.5 bearings i recently purchased. It came real quick and cheap;seems to be same bearings used in the Nico headsets. No doubt you can purchase upper bearings too.
> 40x52x6.5mm 36°x45°2RS CANE CREEK ACB Angular Contact Bearing 1.5" Headset | eBay


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm selling my complete build if anyone in the uk is interested in one?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

vwsurfbum said:


> I'm selling my complete build if anyone in the uk is interested in one?


Oh why?,

Seen from your pictures ,your an Epping Forest rider, thought we might cross paths and exchange notes about the China builds.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

vwsurfbum said:


> I'm selling my complete build if anyone in the uk is interested in one?


Out of curiosity, can I ask why?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Bought a transition covert and need to whittle down how many bikes I have  
Its been brilliant but wanted to sell my long travel 26" and mid travel 29er and combine the two.


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

wconcretej said:


> Oh why?,
> 
> Seen from your pictures ,your an Epping Forest rider, thought we might cross paths and exchange notes about the China builds.


If I see you ill say hi!


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Do any of these manufacturers sell a 120mm travel bike?


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

I use mine very well with 120mm


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## mrloneranger (Jul 25, 2005)

I finally got my build done. It is a 26er Dual so I posted elsewhere.. Here she is

http://forums.mtbr.com/bike-frame-discussion/my-uk-china-bike-build-complete-pics-893185.html


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

vwsurfbum said:


> I use mine very well with 120mm


I am not asking if people are using a 120mm fork. I am asking if any of the frames have 120mm of travel. All of them I have seen are 100mm frames.


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## petgold969 (Jan 2, 2014)

Hello to all. My name is Peter and I live in Italy. I wish you all a Happy New Year. Sorry for my English but I do not know the language well.
I just recently purchased a 036 and I have to assemble the frame. I would like some advice on the rear shock since I'm undecided between the RL and the Monarch RT3. Do you have any information about which is better between the two?
Thanks to all


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## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Personal preference. I liked the Fox. Pro pedal works well for me.


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## LoAl (Jan 5, 2011)

Hi Peter, congratulation for the purchase. How vwsurfbum said, the choice of the rear shock is personal: I prefer an on-off behavior. I vote for Monarch RL.
See you soon


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Has anyone achieved a set up that has been set and forget? For me this would mean a rear shock that ramps up a lot and climbs well fully open.


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## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

Night photo of my bike.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Nice bike, this looks like a size 21".Does this make you about 6ft 3 or so?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Been riding my IP-036 for a couple months now.
I have to say that I love this bike

I like it so much that I ended up selling my Yeti SB95 after the 3rd ride on my IP-036.

The SB95 Yeti was a nice bike and it did technical downhill stuff way better, but a 24.5 pound carbon bike with XX1 is what I am lovin now.

The SB95 was 6 pounds heavier and not that much fun on long climbs. Once it pointed downhill, then it was fun.

The IP-036 climbs really fast and it does downhill ok. Fast enough for me as I get older.


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## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

El34 said:


> Been riding my IP-036 for a couple months now.
> I have to say that I love this bike
> 
> I like it so much that I ended up selling my Yeti SB95 after the 3rd ride on my IP-036.
> ...


What was your total out of pocket?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a build thread here with a spread sheet for cost and weights
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html

Note that some of the parts came off the Yeti and so I did not have to buy everything


----------



## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

Nice, you didn't put a $$$ amt for wheels though? I'd say that's about a $5500+ Build!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The wheels came with my Yeti SB95 so I don't know what they cost

The wheels are DT swiss 350 hubs and DT swiss XR400 rims
Running them as tubeless with Stans

The spread sheet notes the parts I already owned
The stuff with $0.00 cost I already had, except for the XX1 parts that have $0.00 cost

The XX1 parts came as a group for $970 so I do not have individual cost for the 5 XX1 parts


----------



## everything motorcycl (Feb 8, 2012)

lol, let's assume you went with some pimp Roval CARBON's (you should, they're awesome)...you are then at $4,500 roughly. A Spesh with those components is $7k+. Find some better prices for your build out and we can start selling these things. Call it the E34 mtb


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I think they already sell this bike
It's called a Scott genius

That's what someone told me anyway, I don't know
Have to check out a Scott up close and see if there is any difference

I can get carbon wheel set for $550 from the same place I got the frame
Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.


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## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

wconcretej said:


> Nice bike, this looks like a size 21".Does this make you about 6ft 3 or so?


My height is 185 cm frame size 21". Size is just such as I like. At smaller me uncomfortable.


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## bikeaddicted (Jan 13, 2014)

Hi guys, I read the thread and now I would like to get an MC MT036 as well 

There is just one thing left.
In 21" the headtube is 135mm and the distance between the lefty crowns is just 137,6mm.
Is it possible to combine both 135mm headtube and non-xl lefty?
Does the frame needs an integrated or semi integrated headset?

Thanks a lot!


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## petgold969 (Jan 2, 2014)

Hello headset is integrated. In this forum there is an Italian bike size 21 fitted with lefty.

My Brand Board ? Login


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Before I bought my FM-036 29er I compared the geometry with Scott Spark 29 and Specialized Epic, all in size large and 2014 years models. Very similar numbers 

All in millimeters!

*Head Tube Angle 
*Spark: 70,1/69,5 (BB-drop ställbart) 
Epic: 70,5
FM036: 71

*Wheel Base 
*Spark: 1143
Epic: 1140
FM036: 1132

*Head Tube 
*Spark: 115
Epic: 120 
FM036: 125

*Chainstay Length 
*Spark: 448 
Epic: 448 
FM036: 452

*Seat Tube 
*Spark: 481 
Epic: 470 
FM036: 483

*Seat Tube Angle 
*Spark: 73,2 eller 72,5 (adjustable BB-drop) 
Epic: 73.75
FM036: 73,6

*Top Tube (effective) 
*Spark: 628 eller 630 (adjustable BB-drop)
Epic: 620 
FM036: 617

*BB-drop 
*Spark: 41 eller 48 (adjustable BB-drop)
Epic: 40 
FM036: 43

*Stack
*Spark: 611 eller 615 (adjustable BB-drop)
Epic: 615 
FM036:

*Reach
*Spark: 442 eller 436 (adjustable BB-drop)
Epic: 441 
FM036: 430


----------



## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Hello
I was reading this thread for about few months and now i'll very close build my first FS bike! =)
I alredy buy almost everythink i wanted. Here is the list:








Some of these item are still on their way to Russia. And the last one thing to buy is the Frame itself.

Can you guys pls tell me where should i buy it to save money?

And also before i start building the bike i should say that i have no such experience in it at all. I have some instruments:








But haven't any lubrication. And i even don't know what kind of lubricant should i use and what parts of bike needs it. 
Pls help me with this!

P.S. I'm very sorry for my english.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

horseinthesky said:


> Hello
> I was reading this thread for about few months and now i'll very close build my first FS bike! =)
> I alredy buy almost everythink i wanted.
> 
> Can you guys pls tell me where should i buy it to save money?


Well, i think you have most parts and tools to do the job. I'd recommend DIY-carbonbike.com, cheapest price I saw recently and purchased from. But this thread has included some more FS suspension frames. Are you wanting the original frame discussed from pages say 1-20 for example known as fm036. Also how tall are you. i would say stick to a frame size which has the same or closest top tube length to what you currently ride . Are you xc, all-mountain or downhill.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm 176 cm tall and ~67 kg. So i would say 17,5" would be pretty ideal for me =)
I ride XC but want to go more all-mountain with new bike. 
Now i'm riding on my beloved Gary Fisher Pirahna 2008 17,5"

Main question is about lubrication.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Main question is about lubrication.[/QUOTE said:


> Well. i don't use anything special for lubrication but i do make a point to grease the threads for the bottom bracket area and grease around the headset cups/surfaces and bearings. Depending on weather conditions, putting appropriate lubes like Pedros or white lighting on my chain works well! I spray GT85 on everything else.


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

vwsurfbum said:


> I use mine very well with 120mm


This one has 120mm of travel and a 12mm thru axle. I tried to email the company about this and their hardtail 27.5 but have not heard back though.

ASTRO ENGINEERING CO., LTD Conatct


----------



## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Here is a link to a 120mm 29er w/ 12mm rear axle: 
ASTRO ENGINEERING CO., LTD Conatct


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

MagicCarpet said:


> Has anyone achieved a set up that has been set and forget? For me this would mean a rear shock that ramps up a lot and climbs well fully open.


Sorry to nag you all on the critically important stuff, but surely at least one person out there has been able to achieve pedalling efficiency without the use of lockout or loss of small bump compliance?


----------



## raceface_lefty (Sep 11, 2010)

bikeaddicted said:


> Hi guys, I read the thread and now I would like to get an MC MT036 as well
> 
> There is just one thing left.
> In 21" the headtube is 135mm and the distance between the lefty crowns is just 137,6mm.
> ...


I have done this but it does take some effort.

Firstly I had to find a very flat headset top cap as most are around 5mm high, 135 + 5 is too tall for 137.7 lefty.

I then took 2 mm off the top clamp on the lefty, just enough to make the lefty fit without cutting into the bolting mechanism.

Lastly, rather than the standard 8mm bottom headset bearing I used a Cane Creek 5mm setup in an attempt to get the crown race and lefty tapered adapter more flush with the frame.

It's a tight fit but it works, I've done about 7,000km with no issues at all.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I finally read through most* of this thread. As a long time 29er hardtail rider (ltk023) I am thinking of making the jump to add a f/s 29er to my stable. Does anyone in this thread race one these competitvely in XC? If so what are your thoughts on it? 

Thanks!


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

MagicCarpet said:


> Sorry to nag you all on the critically important stuff, but surely at least one person out there has been able to achieve pedalling efficiency without the use of lockout or loss of small bump compliance?


Yep, I have. Used a rockshox monarch and leave it in the middle platform setting on all single track. Sometimes shift to the "lockout" mode on road commutes to trails, and rarely use the full open option except on extended downhill sections that require little pedalling.

The middle setting on the monarch does need a fair bit of air though. From memory I think I have about 130psi on it. Still nice and plush though


----------



## Timbo83 (Oct 11, 2008)

ljracer said:


> I finally read through most* of this thread. As a long time 29er hardtail rider (ltk023) I am thinking of making the jump to add a f/s 29er to my stable. Does anyone in this thread race one these competitvely in XC? If so what are your thoughts on it?
> 
> Thanks!


Raced a full season worth in a grade last year in xc on the bike (even did a hand full of open class cx races on it!)

Great cx race bike if you can spare the cash to get the weight down with parts. Better to have a hardtail as well if you're serious about racing though as some of the less techy or tight cx races I struggled a bit compared to hardtailers, but on a more open rocky track it hands down the duallies territory. You can just sit down and power through


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Timbo83 said:


> Raced a full season worth in a grade last year in xc on the bike (even did a hand full of open class cx races on it!)
> 
> Great cx race bike if you can spare the cash to get the weight down with parts. Better to have a hardtail as well if you're serious about racing though as some of the less techy or tight cx races I struggled a bit compared to hardtailers, but on a more open rocky track it hands down the duallies territory. You can just sit down and power through


Good to know. Thanks! I have two 29er hard tails. So looking to expand. Cant stand riding my 26er f/s anymore.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

ljracer said:


> I finally read through most* of this thread. As a long time 29er hardtail rider (ltk023) I am thinking of making the jump to add a f/s 29er to my stable. Does anyone in this thread race one these competitvely in XC? If so what are your thoughts on it?
> 
> Thanks!


Iam planning to use mine for XC/Marathon races mainly, hope it will work. I tried the Epic S-works 2014 before i bought my frame and I really liked how it fitted my riding style. And as I mention in my erlier post the frame geometrics are pretty equal. So hopefully the FM036 will fit me aswell.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

wconcretej said:


> hidperf said:
> 
> 
> > I want to replace my headset but I'm having a hard time figuring out what I need.
> ...


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

eriklanden said:


> Before I bought my FM-036 29er I compared the geometry with Scott Spark 29 and Specialized Epic, all in size large and 2014 years models. Very similar numbers
> 
> All in millimeters!
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I did before my build. I was in the market for a 2013 Epic but to buy the bike I wanted, the Epic Expert, and then add the upgrades, it would have cost almost $9k! No way I was spending that kind of money.

I built my bike and three of my buddies bought Epics, 2 comps and 1 comp carbon, and I've been able to hang with them on everything so far. And almost all of them have had warranty issues already. The one who bought the comp carbon has already upgraded his cranks, rear derailleur, rear cassette, shifters, and brakes.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

hidperf said:


> That's exactly what I did before my build. I was in the market for a 2013 Epic but to buy the bike I wanted, the Epic Expert, and then add the upgrades, it would have cost almost $9k! No way I was spending that kind of money.
> 
> I built my bike and three of my buddies bought Epics, 2 comps and 1 comp carbon, and I've been able to hang with them on everything so far. And almost all of them have had warranty issues already. The one who bought the comp carbon has already upgraded his cranks, rear derailleur, rear cassette, shifters, and brakes.


Buying a brand-frame is certainly no guarantee that it wount brake. A friend of mine broke two S-works frames last year. It took over two months to get a warranty replacement.

When I had a problem with my rear triangle on the FM-036 from Hong Fu bikes it was someting loose inside that rattled, probably some parts from the 
popclinches.They told me to send the part back and fixed the issue, in two weeks I had it back in Sweden. Excellent service!

Have you had the opportunity to test an Epic 29" and the FM-036 against each other, and if so, what is your experience?


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

eriklanden said:


> Buying a brand-frame is certainly no guarantee that it wount brake. A friend of mine broke two S-works frames last year. It took over two months to get a warranty replacement.
> 
> When I had a problem with my rear triangle on the FM-036 from Hong Fu bikes it was someting loose inside that rattled, probably some parts from the
> popclinches.They told me to send the part back and fixed the issue, in two weeks I had it back in Sweden. Excellent service!
> ...


No, I have not had a chance to ride the Epic on the trails. Not because I haven't had the chance, but because we all love our bikes so much that nobody really want's to swap. I have let a much more experience rider take mine out for a spin and he loved it. He rides a 26" 2012 Stumpy and a 29" 2014 Enduro.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Some more pictures of my build.

DT Swiss Remote XMM 100 TS 29" Forks
X 313 Remote rear suspension
Easton EC70 Wide Carbon Flat Bar
RITCHEY WCS C260
Formula R1 brakes


----------



## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

I have bought used Fox RP23 for this frame but it came with no mointing bolts. Can anyone help me what bolts do i need?


----------



## pikeymick (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi All,

Back in June of 2013 I built up one of these frames. I spent the last 6 months riding it pretty hard, did a two week trip in Fruita and Moab. Yesterday I tore the chinese carbon full suspension frame apart and built up a new bike. If I can warn any prospective buyers away, please don't buy this frame! It was such a waste of my money! Here is my experience:

When doing brake stands the crank arms would actually spin about 2 inches, without the wheels moving. You can visibly see the frame flex. When on hard climbs when I would hammer on the pedals the chain would sometimes skip when the frame would bow under the pressure. When going off hits at speed if I used all the travel of the rear shock I could feel the frame start to get squirrely as the frame would flex under the pressure (I believe the flex is coming from the rear triangle), it was a terrifying feeling to suddenly feel like you're on a wet noodle. That being said I think this bike is probably fine for recreational casual riding. But if you like to push you're riding at all, please don't spend your money on this. I wish I hadn't....


----------



## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

pikeymick said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Back in June of 2013 I built up one of these frames. I spent the last 6 months riding it pretty hard, did a two week trip in Fruita and Moab. Yesterday I tore the chinese carbon full suspension frame apart and built up a new bike. If I can warn any prospective buyers away, please don't buy this frame! It was such a waste of my money! Here is my experience:
> 
> When doing brake stands the crank arms would actually spin about 2 inches, without the wheels moving. You can visibly see the frame flex. When on hard climbs when I would hammer on the pedals the chain would sometimes skip when the frame would bow under the pressure. When going off hits at speed if I used all the travel of the rear shock I could feel the frame start to get squirrely as the frame would flex under the pressure (I believe the flex is coming from the rear triangle), it was a terrifying feeling to suddenly feel like you're on a wet noodle. That being said I think this bike is probably fine for recreational casual riding. But if you like to push you're riding at all, please don't spend your money on this. I wish I hadn't....


Please show photos. 
Otherwise it does not look plausible. 
I'm in this frame randomly at high speed (about 20 km \ h) flew on the curb height of about 20cm without lifting the rear wheel. Do not have time to react. Even caught a star on the curb. 
But nothing terrible has happened. 
I ask you again to send a photo of your scene. Thanks in advance.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

pikeymick said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Back in June of 2013 I built up one of these frames. I spent the last 6 months riding it pretty hard, did a two week trip in Fruita and Moab. Yesterday I tore the chinese carbon full suspension frame apart and built up a new bike. If I can warn any prospective buyers away, please don't buy this frame! It was such a waste of my money! Here is my experience:
> 
> When doing brake stands the crank arms would actually spin about 2 inches, without the wheels moving. You can visibly see the frame flex. When on hard climbs when I would hammer on the pedals the chain would sometimes skip when the frame would bow under the pressure. When going off hits at speed if I used all the travel of the rear shock I could feel the frame start to get squirrely as the frame would flex under the pressure (I believe the flex is coming from the rear triangle), it was a terrifying feeling to suddenly feel like you're on a wet noodle. That being said I think this bike is probably fine for recreational casual riding. But if you like to push you're riding at all, please don't spend your money on this. I wish I hadn't....


I have not found any of this to be true with my IP-036, so take what was said above with a grain of salt.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

pikeymick said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Back in June of 2013 I built up one of these frames. I spent the last 6 months riding it pretty hard, did a two week trip in Fruita and Moab. Yesterday I tore the chinese carbon full suspension frame apart and built up a new bike. If I can warn any prospective buyers away, please don't buy this frame! It was such a waste of my money! Here is my experience:
> 
> When doing brake stands the crank arms would actually spin about 2 inches, without the wheels moving. You can visibly see the frame flex. When on hard climbs when I would hammer on the pedals the chain would sometimes skip when the frame would bow under the pressure. When going off hits at speed if I used all the travel of the rear shock I could feel the frame start to get squirrely as the frame would flex under the pressure (I believe the flex is coming from the rear triangle), it was a terrifying feeling to suddenly feel like you're on a wet noodle. That being said I think this bike is probably fine for recreational casual riding. But if you like to push you're riding at all, please don't spend your money on this. I wish I hadn't....


Interesting, I have not heard or read anyone else complain about flex. I am willing to give this frame a try, if it is as bad as you say I probably buy a Scott Spark frameset and move all the parts.

I some questions...

Where and when did you buy your frame? 
Was is the FM-036? 
Was it the one with 142/12 rear axel? 
What is your weight?
What did you buy instead?


----------



## vwsurfbum (Feb 7, 2012)

Sounds like you either had a problem or set up wrong ?
I'm a big heavy bloke who rides hard, never had any of those issues.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I would be impossible for me to flex the BB on my IP-036.
I have mine set up with 30 tooth XX1 1 x 11 and I could not be happier with the bike


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

horseinthesky said:


> I have bought used Fox RP23 for this frame but it came with no mointing bolts. Can anyone help me what bolts do i need?


Looking for bushing set for my DT X313 and the frame-space is 22,4mm, and the bolts are 8mm so I guess is 22,8 then?



*DT Swiss rear shock bushing set 8x21.8 mm*
*DT Swiss rear shock bushing set 8x22.2 mm*
 


----------



## pikeymick (Apr 14, 2009)

For anyone doubting it, I have a frame for sale you can test it out if you want it. I don't like dropping money on frames, I sure as **** wish this one was rideable.


----------



## iiiii11111 (Aug 8, 2013)

pikeymick said:


> For anyone doubting it, I have a frame for sale you can test it out if you want it. I don't like dropping money on frames, I sure as **** wish this one was rideable.


where the photo?


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

pikeymick said:


> For anyone doubting it, I have a frame for sale you can test it out if you want it. I don't like dropping money on frames, I sure as **** wish this one was rideable.


I saw you bought the frame at Hong Fu, same as me. 
Do you have of experience of full suspension frames before and are you absolutely sure it was the frame that flexed? To me it seems odd that you can determine what flexes when it is natural that things move and flex on a full suspension frame.

I personally perceive the feeling of a full suspension bikes totally different than a hart-tail, then I have only ridden a 2014 Specialized Epic and it was much more "flexy" than my hart-tail.

What did you use for rear suspension? 
Other setup, wheels etc?
Your own weight?
Many manufacturers of lightweight frames do not recommend riders over 90kg (198lbs)


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Thought I'd post up some more info since I've had mine about a year now.

I put about 1k miles on it last year, including the 240+mile trip across Colorado into Utah. It took a beating last year and it was time for teardown, cleanup, and replacing any worn items. One of the things I didn't replace when I first bought the frame was the stock bearings. At the time, I was in a hurry to assemble so I could start riding, and nobody had any info on which bearings this frame took. Plus, they were brand new so why replace them already?

I knew I would be doing a complete tear down over the winter so I ordered a new headset and Enduro MAX sealed frame pivot bearings from RWC. While tearing the bike down, I only noticed a couple bearings that were rough, but one was completely frozen. It was the drive side on the bottom main pivot. When I pulled the chain stay off, I noticed a bunch of rubbing was taking place on both sides of the bottom pivot, more so on the drive side. I'll post pictures once I get them uploaded.

Bearings went in without any drama and I'm in the middle of assembly now. I also put a generous coat of wax on everything while it was apart, something I should have done originally.

Since the original build, I haven't had to replace many components. I've replaced 4 nipples that broke on my front Light Bike carbon wheel, and a SRAM XG-1080 cassette because the big ring folded on me. That was a waste of money, so I replaced it with an XT ring. Also replacing the chain along with frame bearings. Other than that, it's been bullet-proof.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

hidperf said:


> Bearings went in without any drama and I'm in the middle of assembly now. I also put a generous coat of wax on everything while it was apart, something I should have done originally.


I have bought new bearings for the frame, but what kind of coating/wax did you use?


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

eriklanden said:


> I have bought new bearings for the frame, but what kind of coating/wax did you use?


I used to work at a car dealership, so I had a gallon of some "industrial" carnuba liquid wax in the garage.

But I've always been a fan of Mothers paste carnuba wax. It's a ***** to put on, but it seems to last longer and protect better. Just don't use anything that has an abrasive in it.

My frame is 3k Gloss finish also. If you have matte finish, I have no idea what you could use for protection.


----------



## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

hidperf said:


> My frame is 3k Gloss finish also. If you have matte finish, I have no idea what you could use for protection.


I have 3k carbon matte frame and I used a meguires quick wax. No issues.


----------



## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

I cant figure out which bushing-set to buy for my bike. It is a FM-036 and I have a DT Swiss X313 suspension. It is a 8mm bolt and the space in the frame is 22,4mm.

Bushing Set DT 8 x 22,2 mm is the closest I can find, is this right?


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

eriklanden said:


> I cant figure out which bushing-set to buy for my bike. It is a FM-036 and I have a DT Swiss X313 suspension. It is a 8mm bolt and the space in the frame is 22,4mm.
> 
> Bushing Set DT 8 x 22,2 mm is the closest I can find, is this right?


I would say that's the closest you're going to find. .2mm isn't going to matter.

I bought my kit for my RockShox Monarch XX from RWC RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

hidperf said:


> I would say that's the closest you're going to find. .2mm isn't going to matter.
> 
> I bought my kit for my RockShox Monarch XX from RWC RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS


how do you like that needle bearing kit?
It looks really nice

My IP-036 frame measures 22.2mm on the inside of the shock mounts 
My 2014 Fox RP23 measures 21.85 on the outside of the bushings

So there is a .35mm difference between the shock bushings and the frame mounts

I contacted Chris at RWC about which needle bearing kit I would use and he said not to flex the carbon shock mounts inward when you crank down the shock bolts. 
So I would use the NBKRWC2220  kit since my frame measures 22.2mm

He also said I would only need needle bearings on one end of the RP23 shock because one end is stationary. You could install two needles bearing kits, but it's not neccesary


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I went ahead and ordered two of the NBKRWC2220 needle bearing shock kits from this site.

RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS

Since my IP-036 frame has 22.2 mm spacing on the frame shock mounts, Chris at RWC said to use the NBKRWC2220 kits

After letting the air out of my RP-23 and watching it cycle in and out, I found out that the front shock mount does move up and down on my IP-036 frame and so I am installing the needle bearings kits on both ends of my RP23.

I had noticed some stiction on the stock RP23 bushings, even though they are the new and improved model bushings for 2014.

Also, my RP-23 was only 21.85 mm wide and the frame is 22.2mm wide
So that means you are compressing the sides of the frame mounts inward and probably at at angle when you crank the mounting bolts down


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

El34 said:


> how do you like that needle bearing kit?
> It looks really nice


I don't have anything to compare it too since I bought everything new and assembled the bike from parts. I never rode it with anything other than the needle bearing kits.

Chris is a great guy. I just bought all of my frame pivot bearings from him and a replacement head set. He also told me that I didn't need both ends, but since I had nothing I picked up two kits. They work great though.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

What I noticed with my IP-036 frame and other frames also was that I could undo one end of the shock from the frame and the shock would hang in place when it should pivot easily. 
Loosening the shock mount bolts resulted in some play in the shock bushings when you grabbed it and moved it around.
So either you tighten the bolts down and get some stiction or run run them looser and get some play.

Nether situation is optimal

It was hard to get the shock exactly right
I never paid much attention in the past, just tightened the bolts down and went with it.
It will be nice to have the exact 22.2mm spacing for the frame and roller bearings instead of the stock shock bushings


----------



## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

Going to the Post Office today to pickup my HongFu FM036!


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice!!!


----------



## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

*Around the World in 7 days.*

My first reaction, is this box empty? Ordered on the 12th arrived on the 19th. Couldn't be happier with Jenny and HongFu. I'll have more pics on my blog RW Creations, I'll put them here if folks are interested.


----------



## PatMc (Feb 14, 2014)

pikeymick said:


> For anyone doubting it, I have a frame for sale you can test it out if you want it. I don't like dropping money on frames, I sure as **** wish this one was rideable.


How much?


----------



## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

RW_29 said:


> My first reaction, is this box empty? Ordered on the 12th arrived on the 19th. Couldn't be happier with Jenny and HongFu. I'll have more pics on my blog RW Creations, I'll put them here if folks are interested.
> 
> What did you ordered and how much did it cost to you?


----------



## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

FM036. $700 plus shipping and Paypal Fee.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

El34 said:


> What I noticed with my IP-036 frame and other frames also was that I could undo one end of the shock from the frame and the shock would hang in place when it should pivot easily.
> Loosening the shock mount bolts resulted in some play in the shock bushings when you grabbed it and moved it around.
> So either you tighten the bolts down and get some stiction or run run them looser and get some play.
> 
> ...


It's very important that you tighten the bolts properly! Don't loosen it to get more free movement, or you will damage your frame, because the adapter will rotate within the frame.
The only movement should be between the shock eyelet, and the adapter, and when they are new, they will have a lot of stiction.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

You can only tighten them so far because they are shoulder bolts

Then if you have slack side to side you need very thin shim washers


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

El34 said:


> What I noticed with my IP-036 frame and other frames also was that I could undo one end of the shock from the frame and the shock would hang in place when it should pivot easily.
> Loosening the shock mount bolts resulted in some play in the shock bushings when you grabbed it and moved it around.
> So either you tighten the bolts down and get some stiction or run run them looser and get some play.
> 
> ...


5th one down the page
RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> 5th one down the page
> RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS


yes, thanks, I ordered those a few days ago, they will be here today


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The RWC roller bearings kit for the IP-036 showed up and I installed them.

This is some impressive engineering.

After you remove all the bushings on the shock ends, you have to press in a roller bearing.
Then a steel shaft that spins goes inside the roller bearing.
Then you push on two spacer seals on either side of the steel shaft.

The difference was amazing between the stock Fox bushings and the roller bearings.

The roller bearings are so smooth and there is zero play.

I had a tiny bit of play on the rear shock bushing. You could put the shoulder bolt inside the bushing and wiggle it around a bit. I could feel that play when I lifted the rear end of the bike off the ground.

A few pics of before and after on my IP-036.
The first image shows the old bushings on my 2014 Fox RP23
Older Fox shocks will have two aluminum bushings

The last picture shows a picture of the roller bearing that you have to press into the shock. The kit comes with a spacer that goes inside the steel shaft. I guess that is for smaller diameter bolts. I did not use that because my shoulder bolts fit perfectly inside the steel shaft


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Thanks for posting info about the shock needle bearings, getting ready to build an IP-036 myself and it appears the bearing kit is a good thing to add. Rep for you!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks
I was thinking of starting a new thread outside of this one because it is buried pretty deep in this thread and these bearing kits may be of interest to all dual sus. riders.

My IP-036 measured 22.2mm between the frame mounts.
Just curious what other have measured and if it is consistent


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

My FM036 measure 21.88mm. The bearing kit is one of two "niggly things" that are keeping me from riding this weekend. My RWC's should be here Tuesday. I'm also waiting on a bracket for my SLX brakes w/180mm rotor.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Is it necessary to use these spans? HongFu is going to ship mounting bolts with the frame.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The bearings have nothing to do with the mounting bolts.
The bearings are just a way more precise shock bushing system

You can use the stock bushings on your shock and the bolts Hong Fu sends you


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

*New IP-036 Build*

Hi guys, after deciding that I didn't want to spend double the money on a Specialized Epic, I have ordered an IP-036 from XMIplay. Below is a photo of the paint scheme they are doing for me. It will be white with the black areas exposed 3k carbon, then a gloss top coat applied to the entire frame surface.



My build will be as follows:
IP-036 19", XMIplay
30MM wide (new process) carbon wheels, XMIplay
Carbon bars, XMIplay
Carbon seatpost, XMIplay
XX1 drivetrain, eBay
XT Brakes, Bike Nashbar
Fox CTD fork w/remote lockout, eBay
Fox CTD rear shock w/remote lockout, TBD
Continental X-King Tires

Lots of other little parts but I won't bore you with those details.

I've already built a Chinese Carbon 29er Hardtail and have decided that it would be great to have a similar bike in a Full Suspension model. Looking forward to have this bike up and running within the next month or two.

Cheers!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice !!!!!!

How much did you get the XX1 group for?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

El34 said:


> Nice !!!!!!
> 
> How much did you get the XX1 group for?


$1079 + free shipping, no tax

If you are looking to purchase an XX1 group, be careful, sellers are mixing in X01 components so they undercut the price. I only buy new parts on eBay, otherwise you never know what you're going to get.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I bought my XX1 on ebay a couple months ago for $970, no tax, no shipping.

Just curious what they are going for these days

It's on my IP-036 here.


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

If you are using Rockshox you will have to buy something to adapt the different diameters. Hongfu does ship the bolts, but Rockshox sells their bushing fit kit as a separate item. I ordered 2x NBKRWC2185 from Real World Cycling and they fit great.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Are the rockshox bolts smaller in diameter?

My fox shock uses 8mm diameter bolts.

The RWC bearing kits I installed came with some sleeves that look to be an adapters for smaller diameter bolts.

Never had a rockshox frame shock, just curious about those extra pieces.


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

El34 said:


> Are the rockshox bolts smaller in diameter?
> 
> My fox shock uses 8mm diameter bolts.
> 
> ...


The Rockshox Monarch I used had 1/2" eyelets with a thin pressed in bushing (same for all rear RS?). You have to remove the bushing (which is a PITA) I was worried of damaging the shock with my press so I had to resort to a bolt extractor to rotate it out like so:







Here's the finished product, width fits snugly between the carbon tabs and HongFu provided bolt fits tightly through the bearing.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, those bushings are a pain.
I have had to press them out on older Fox shocks

I have a small wrench socket that happens to the the correct diameter, just a hair smaller than the shock hole.

Using my press was easy after that.

The new Fox shocks have plastic bushings and they come out really easy


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Anyone buildt the FM036 with 142x12 rear axle? I got this option on my (changeable dropouts) so I ordered a wheel with DT 240s 142x12 hub. The only problem is that I have no axle right now.

And when I look at pictures of the DT thru axel it is threaded in one end. But my dropout are not threaded, does the DT axel come with a nut that I mount on the rear hangers? Here is the product image of the rear axle.


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

You'll need the Shimano style with the nut. See here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/chinese-carbon-29er-640919-275.html#post11023520


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

mobes said:


> You'll need the Shimano style with the nut. See here:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/chinese-carbon-29er-640919-275.html#post11023520


Thank you! Just what I was looking for, so i guess the shimano axle would work with the DT-240s hub then?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I ordered my IP-036 with 12 x 142

I already had the wheel set and axle

I popped by my local bike shop and they had axle nuts


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

So if i buy this: Shimano XTR Steckachse SM-AX75 fr FH-M988B 12mm gnstig online kaufen - bike-components would it fit my FM-036 frame and DT 240s 142x12 rear hub?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I did not see a picture of that nut on that web site

You want a round nut with scallops like the picture I uploaded.

A small set screw goes down into one of the scallops and holds it in place so it does not fall off the bike


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## mbmsg (Jun 15, 2009)

Anybody have an idea of steerer tube length? Would like to reuse an existing fork with about 7 inches of length.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Each frame size has it's own head tube length
I just looked at the frame spec's for the frames from xmiplay

Or whoever you are interested in getting a frame from, get the spec sheets emailed to you


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

El34 said:


> I bought my XX1 on ebay a couple months ago for $970, no tax, no shipping.
> 
> Just curious what they are going for these days
> 
> It's on my IP-036 here.


I know, seems like the price fluctuates $100 up or down on any given week depending on the seller.

2/28 Update
Rec'd my XX1 group today from ebay seller westcoastbicycleLLC. Everything is new and arrived in approx 4 days. Not as cheap as some have been able to purchase the XX1 group but a good seller and it shipped quickly with all the parts per my selections.


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## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

Here is my carbonal Titan not rode it yet it comes in at 21.7 lbs so not bad at all


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## Dibbs_ (Feb 17, 2009)

Looks good.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice Carbonal build milkybar kid. The Titan has a slightly different single pivot design than the IP-036 I just ordered. I would be curious if it rides much differently from the bike I a building. I think I will also go with a Fox rear shock, if I get one with a remote, I can setup the remote lever to lock out the fork and the shock at the same time, or switch between CTD modes.

Only a few parts left to order, and I have already received my Fox Fork, XT brakes, and XX1 group. I've gone a little over budget but I will have some very good components on this bike.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

I first ordered a 25mm seat back seatpost, but it took to long so i canceled the order, then I figured, this frame may not need any seatback. The angle of the seat tube is pretty steep back already. What are your thoughts? seat back or not?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Most builds I've seen do not have a "setback" or "laid back" seat post on these frames.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Anybody in New Jersey or NY area that have built one of those and is interested in getting paid to build me one of those on the FM-036/IP036 ? 
I live in a apartment and don't have the space to do it.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

charlesrg said:


> Anybody in New Jersey or NY area that have built one of those and is interested in getting paid to build me one of those on the FM-036/IP036 ?
> I live in a apartment and don't have the space to do it.


if I over in your area I would consider helping you out but maybe you should talk to one of the mechanics at one of your local bike shops.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

charlesrg said:


> Anybody in New Jersey or NY area that have built one of those and is interested in getting paid to build me one of those on the FM-036/IP036 ?
> I live in a apartment and don't have the space to do it.


And I thought apartments in Japan were small! How small of a place do you have? You really don't need much space to put it together.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

pucked up said:


> And I thought apartments in Japan were small! How small of a place do you have? You really don't need much space to put it together.


you've probably never been to NYC. I completely understand what the dude is saying! I'm enjoying now living in florida with my 400 sq ft 2 car garage instead of leaving grease all over my 400 sq ft apt.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

cpfitness said:


> you've probably never been to NYC. I completely understand what the dude is saying! I'm enjoying now living in florida with my 400 sq ft 2 car garage instead of leaving grease all over my 400 sq ft apt.


I'm with you on that. Although building a bike is not a greasy, dirty mess when all the parts are clean and new. Just apply a dab of grease here and there. I would say the messiest part would be installing the hydraulic brakes. If you went with cable brakes then you could avoid that mess as well.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

I have convinced my fiancee to get a MTB. Chain love is blowing out 26er BMC speedfoxes for under $1000 . any reason why I can't use the rear shock from that on one of these frames? They dont have them in her size so I was going to buy the xl bmc frame and strip the parts to put on a small carbon chiner . I will buy her a tower pro 29er fork for it as well then I'll sell the BMC frame or I'll build it for myself

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Why go to all of that trouble? Whether you are getting an XL BMC for yourself or not, both scenarios leave you with a frame that needs a shock purchased seperately. Consider both purchases individually as there is nothing about one that justifies the other.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

MagicCarpet said:


> Why go to all of that trouble? Whether you are getting an XL BMC for yourself or not, both scenarios leave you with a frame that needs a shock purchased seperately. Consider both purchases individually as there is nothing about one that justifies the other.


What trouble? You can't buy a full suspension xc bike for under 3k with xt components. This will come in way under that

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

cpfitness said:


> What trouble? You can't buy a full suspension xc bike for under 3k with xt components. This will come in way under that
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Also I may just buy her a carbon full sus 26er in which case I can use everything off the BMC including the wheels and fork

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

cpfitness said:


> You can't buy a full suspension xc bike for under 3k with xt components.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Sure you can, check out Bikesdirect.com or Airbourne Bikes. Both sell some good FS, XT Group, options for well under $3k. You just need to know where to look.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Epic_Dude said:


> Sure you can, check out Bikesdirect.com or Airbourne Bikes. Both sell some good FS, XT Group, options for well under $3k. You just need to know where to look.


I know bikes direct well. There are some decent deals there but there are always a couple things lacking. I may end up getting just the frame from them. I just bought the speedfox for $999. And its got better wheels, tires shock and fork than the bikes direct offerings

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

Anyone know a place to get a quick replacement for my FM036 rear hanger? Seems my endo today bent it enough to hit the spokes. I pounded it back in shape, but really need some extras for my bag anyways.







Is this a standard Type 75?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I think you need to contact HongFu or XMIplay to get those, I would assume they are specific to the IP-036. Maybe order two replacements so yo will have a spare.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

Ok, new to the thread and looking to build one of these up for 100 mile racing.

Are any of the _-036 frames 100mm rear travel? It seams they started that way and then went to 120MM. 

Would you recommend replacing the bearings to start? 

Is the rear shock still the 6.5x1.5?

Does the shock mounting hardware come with the shock or do I need to order with the frame?

Any overriding preference on the rear shock: Fox or Rock Shox?

Has one vendor proved better than another for the frame?

Sorry for all the questions, but I just spent 90 minutes reading all the 2013 to present posts and I am a bit confused. Thx.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Here's my IP-036 build therad
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638

Check out my shock bushing upgrade and other info

If you have any questions, let me know


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## RW_29 (Feb 15, 2014)

coyotegulch said:


> Ok, new to the thread and looking to build one of these up for 100 mile racing.
> 
> Are any of the _-036 frames 100mm rear travel? It seams they started that way and then went to 120MM.


It was recommended to me to stick with 100mm, and I echo that recommendation.



coyotegulch said:


> Would you recommend replacing the bearings to start?


No need to replace the bearings, they look pretty good and feel smooth to me.



coyotegulch said:


> Is the rear shock still the 6.5x1.5?


Yes 6.5x1.5



coyotegulch said:


> Does the shock mounting hardware come with the shock or do I need to order with the frame?


My FM036 did come with bolts that are used in conjuction with a shock mounting hardware kit. Rockshox Monarch RT3 did NOT come with any mounting hardware. I ordered quantity 2 of the RWC NBKRWC2185 that interfaces between the frame bolts, and the shock bushing.



coyotegulch said:


> Any overriding preference on the rear shock: Fox or Rock Shox?


I'm a RockShox fan, but did notice that a Fox rear with handlebar remote might work better with the FM036's internal cable guide. I'm not a fan of more crap on my handlebar so this wasn't much of an issue in my decision to go with the Monarch.



coyotegulch said:


> Has one vendor proved better than another for the frame?


I ordered a HongFu FM036 in February, and it arrived in approx 10 days. Very pleased with the transaction.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

coyotegulch said:


> Ok, new to the thread and looking to build one of these up for 100 mile racing.
> 
> Are any of the _-036 frames 100mm rear travel? It seams they started that way and then went to 120MM.
> 
> ...


See above replies.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I am not sure if all the XX-036 are made the same but the IP-036 I got from peter at xmiplay has excellent sealed bearings on all pivots.
I took pics of all the bearings when I got the frame and wrote down the part numbers in case I ever have to replace a bearing
pics are here
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638


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## the-milkybar-kid (May 26, 2009)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Here is my carbonal Titan not rode it yet it comes in at 21.7 lbs so not bad at all


Have been out a few times now and it's a great bike it seems stiffer than my old 036 frame that may just be down to the carbon wheels and it don't feel as long it just feels great everywhere I take it


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Could someone pls help me. I have instated xx1 crankset on this frame and there is about 1-1,5 cm space between right crank and BB. How can it be?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

BB's usually come with a spacer ring for different width BB shells
What is the width on your bb shell?


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

It should be tightened pretty hard, do not remember exactly, but I think it's 45-50 newtons. Dont know what you are using, but you need something more powerful than a standard allen key.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

El34 said:


> BB's usually come with a spacer ring for different width BB shells
> What is the width on your bb shell?


It's 68 mm Hong Fu BB. I used SRAM gxp ceramic BB/ I bought it on eBay and there were no spacers with it.


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

You need the spacers. Search eBay for "GXP Spacer".

No spacers = 73mm. You need one on each side for 68mm.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

New frame arrived. IP-036 from XMIplay. Paint looks good, weight came in at 2250g for a Large with the extra paint (plastic shock mount still installed). Will start building this weekend. Based on the weight of my parts, it looks like the the total weight of the bike will be around 25 lbs.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Epic Dude. pics or it didn't happen. . Seriously, would love to see a pic of the frame. I order my IP-036 from Peter a couple days ago so for now I've gotta live vicariously thru you. Thanks,
Andy.


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

Right on 

I also recently ordered my frame. Should be shipping on Monday, they say. I too am looking forward to its arrival. I've got a big pile of parts in the garage looking for a new home.

P.S.

Epic_Dude.... PICS!!!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Andy44 said:


> Epic Dude. pics or it didn't happen. . Seriously, would love to see a pic of the frame. I order my IP-036 from Peter a couple days ago so for now I've gotta live vicariously thru you. Thanks,
> Andy.





mobes said:


> Right on
> 
> I also recently ordered my frame. Should be shipping on Monday, they say. I too am looking forward to its arrival. I've got a big pile of parts in the garage looking for a new home.
> 
> ...


Alright, alright, alright...here are some pics of the frame. Notice the curvature of the seat tube, I knew it curved front to back but it also curves left to right, I guess to offset for the drivetrain. I assembled several parts today, I'm probably about 50% complete, had to order a few parts. Will explain in more detail in another post.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Wow. That is just beautiful. So clean with the white. So swoopy. I love it. Good job Epic_Dude.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Say Mobes can we see a pic of your new frame too? Thanks!
Andy.


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

Andy44 said:


> Say Mobes can we see a pic of your new frame too? Thanks!
> Andy.


I don't have it in my possession yet (should ship tomorrow by EMS), but this is the one that I ordered:


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

mobes said:


> I don't have it in my possession yet (should ship tomorrow by EMS), but this is the one that I ordered:
> 
> View attachment 881168


Man that looks sharp! Is that the 12k matte finish? I likey!


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

Andy44 said:


> Man that looks sharp! Is that the 12k matte finish? I likey!


Yes, it is the 12k matte finish. Oddly they didn't have the 12k with the interchangeable rear axle hangers. So no 142x12. Not a deal breaker for me though since I'm using a 135mm rear wheel that I already have.

Epic_Dude, that looks sweet also. Reminds me of the Titus Rockstar carbon. Looking forward to seeing assembled pics.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

So far cable routing has been interesting. I looked at some pictures that Steve (Hidperf) took for me and it looks like I will be doing my routing a little differently. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the routing and for me what I explain below made the most sense. I added pictures also for anyone doing their build, they can either do what I did or come up with their own way.

1) Since I'm using XX1, I will not have a front derailleur. To me it appears the outer tie wrap cable mounts on the underside of the frame is for the front derailleur. The cable would route under the frame then the housing would end on the underside of the middle of the chainstay leaving the bare cable to up through the chainstay and attach to the front derailleur. Oddly though, there are two routing holes through the middle of the chainstay (ahead of where the rear tire would be). Why there would be two holes I'm not sure unless it's for either SRAM or Shimano front derailleurs.

I'm not going to post any pictures here for the front derailleur, you can check my previous shots of the frame and you can see the cable tie mounts. They appear to be riveted to the frame so I will not be removing them even though I will not be running a cable through them.

2) I routed the rear derailleur through the frame on the left side, it crosses over and exits under bottom bracket toward the right chainstay, then has three tie wrap cable mounts on the underside of the chainstay, then the cable is routed round to the front of the chainstay an up to the rear derailleur. This seems correct since the housing does not fit through the frame, I cut the housing and ran bare cable through the frame with a ferrule at each end.







3) The rear brake was next, the brake line routes into the frame on the right side and exits on the left side ahead of the bottom bracket. The line then routes below the left side pivot under the chainstay which has a mount for one tie wrap, then around the front of the chainstay and up to the rear brake caliper. This seems correct also because of the direction of the routing and the holes are sized correctly for the brake line. I've seen similar routing on big name FS bike so it looks right to me. One thing though, I'm not crazy about the brake line touches the external BB so I will add a Jagwire cable protector there.









4) Lastly, there is another internal routing hole in the frame for the rear shock remote cable or it could be used for a dropper seat post. It enters on the right side of the frame and exits ahead of the fwd shock mount.




I know someone is thinking that I have the shock mounted backwards. My response is this was the best way for the remote lockout cable to run and I don't think the shock cares which way it is mounted. Also, when the shock arrived the bushing size was not correct at one end. I have ordered a new Fox 22.5mm mounting bushing. Wish I'd have known earlier, I could have combined this part with others that I ordered previously.

I'm about half done with the build, more pictures to come in the next few days. Next week my carbon wheels should arrive from XMIplay so I will have all the parts by then.

Here is a link to Steve's blog: Full suspension, open-mold, Chinese carbon fiber 29er build | Join me on my first bike build


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Yes epic dude pics would be great. Can you also post the pics Steve Hidperf sent you. I think these all could really help those of getting ready to build our ip-036. Thanks so much!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

There you go Andy. Hope it helps when you build yours. After building a few bikes, I've become very particular when it comes to the cable routing, I like to see clean efficient routing with no extra cable length. If anyone comes up with a better way, please post up.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

mobes said:


> I don't have it in my possession yet (should ship tomorrow by EMS), but this is the one that I ordered:
> 
> View attachment 881168


Nice looking frame Mobes! I really like the paint and graphics you chose.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Great pics and explanations epic dude! Thanks for all the help. I think I know what to do now thanks to you. I'm so excited to get my frame and start building.

I read with great interest you are getting the carbon wheels from Peter next. That will be my next step. I'm sure I will have more questions for you then. 

I can't wait to see your bike fully built up and see how you like the ride. Looks like you are building an absolutely awesome machine. 

Again thanks for all your help!


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## Bahrain (Sep 13, 2013)

Where did you get that frame done?


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Here's mine


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

So Pagey, how are you liking the way it rides?


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

Bahrain said:


> Where did you get that frame done?


Not sure who you were addressing, but Epic_Dude got his from Xmiplay (Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.), and mine is from ICAN (Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.).


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Andy44 said:


> So Pagey, how are you liking the way it rides?


Been racing it now for 10 months mainly 100km marathons and 24hr solos. Great ride and very comfortable over that distance/time. I have found that I need to run the rear suspension at 15% sag.

I did originally run a Fox fork but found the Reba a better match to the frame. The change to the LightBicycle carbon wheelset has made a noticeable improvement


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Thanks for the update Pagey, if they bike rides well during your 100km marathon and 24hr solo races, I'm sure it will be great on the 20km rides I take a few times a week.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Pagey that is a glowing review! 

What length Reba are you using? 100 or120mm??

Also, where did you get the "Rock Lobster" decals? I'm a huge B-52's fan.
Thanks!!!


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

So what do these frames weigh?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I listed all the weights here in my build
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/my-ip-036-carbon-build-887323.html#post10814638


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Andy44 said:


> Pagey that is a glowing review!
> 
> What length Reba are you using? 100 or120mm??
> 
> ...


100mm Reba. I need to go back to remember where I got the decals


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Because of the regressive linkage, the average shock will go through it's travel pretty quickly on these frames. If you want more bottom-out support, you can add a fox volume spacer, or add 10ml of oil in the air can.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Received my wheels yesterday (30mm wide carbon from XMIplay) and my shock mounting bushing today. My IP-036 build is now 95% complete, should be able to finish tomorrow (got knocked down with a touch of flu earlier this week). Just need to mount the chain, wire the shock and fork remotes, adjust things, and give the bike a once over to tighten and torque everything. 

The only thing troubling me is routing the remote to the rear shock, if I do it the way Scott did it on the Spark, the cable would run through the frame and connect to the shock directly with no loop. However, the cable exit hole in the IP-036 frame is very close to the shock if the shock is mounted normally with the shock body facing forward and the cable has difficulty making a bend down to the shock from the exit hole. If I flip the shock around so the shock body is facing rearward, the cable works better but that end of the shock moves much more causing lots of cable rubbing everywhere. I've not seen any other pictures of anyone else who built an IP/FM-036 with a remote lockout for a Fox rear shock so I guess I'm on my own to figure out which way will work better.

Overall the bike is looking really good so far, just need to decide what I want to do with the shock remote cable. I will post a few pics tomorrow.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hi Epic_Dude,

I just can't wait to see pics of the finished build! Wish I had input on your remote cabling issue but don't quite know without seeing it all. Maybe use Nokon cable housing, it can make tight turns w/out friction. Somehow I know you'll figure out it out and it wil be done well.

Also, can't wait to hear your thoughts on the 30mm rims from Xmiplay. I'm saving my pennies for them as we speak to put on my new Ip036. 

Thanks or all the pics and info in this thread.
Andy.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Okay, bike is finished, just took it for a quick test ride around the neighborhood.

*Brakes:
*I was able to shorten the rear without needing to bleed the brake line, not so lucky on the front, some air got in the line, will bleed the brake tomorrow. Still these XT brakes are amazing, noise free with great stopping power.

*Shock Remote Cable Routing:*
Ended up putting the hard bend in the cable so the shock body is installed facing forward. Things are working fine but I don't like the bend in the cable. Oh well, it's not like I paid $3k for the frame.

*Rear Derailleur Cable:*
This took much longer than expected. I originally cut the cable housings and rand bare cable through the frame. As I was setting up the rear derailleur I kept having problems with cable tension, then I noticed the ferrules slipped into the frame (I though son-of-a-b8$ch!). I pulled the housings but had two ferrules stuck inside the frame. Luckily I was able to feed a long piece of housing fully into the frame and knock out the ferrules. At this point I determined I could run a full housing all the way from the shifter, through the frame, and to the rear derailleur. This worked great, XX1 shifts flawlessly.

*Fox Shock/Fork Cable Splitter:*
This took much longer than expected but got them working nicely. One lever sets Climb-Trail-Decend for both the fork and the shock at the same time. Works really nice, just took a bit of time to figure out cable lengths, and such. Fox has a really good installation guide online.

*Wheels:*
Wheels look amazing, so happy I decided to go carbon. The XD hub was preinstalled from XMIplay so that saved my from having to purchase an XD hub and throw the standard hub away. The 3K gloss finish on the wheels is flawless also. Applied a layer of Stans rim tape, mounted the Geax tires, added some Orange Sealant and the tires aired right up very easily. Just a test ride but the feel really smooth and stiff.

*Issues:
*So far only two: 1) Rear shock does not seem to be locking out even though the cable is doing a fine job of pulling the remote knob. May need to call Fox and ask about it. _UPDATE: Called Fox and was told I needed more air in the shock, I have tried 150-180psi but I need a minimum of 200-220psi and to set sag from there. Also, the shock does not fully lock out as one might expect, there is still some compliance but with the Boost Valve technology changing from Climb->Trail->Descend changes the behavior of the shock but does not lock it out completely._

2) I have a creek in on of the suspension pivots. Unlike some other posters, I didn't take the pivots apart and apply grease before I started the build, guess I need to go back and do that step.

*Pics as promised:*


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Epic dude that is simply gorgeous. Good job! The wheels look awesome in the gloss finish. The black and white paint job is beyond clean. And I love the touches of blue. 

Have you weighed it yet?

Also, just want to make sure I understand. Do we need to run continuous shift housing all the way thru the frame?? No ferrels possible?? Thanks and again, great job!
Andy.


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## Andy44 (Feb 2, 2014)

Also epic dude. Are the rims 3k finish also?? And how do you like the sagauro tires??
Thanks,
Andy.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Andy44 said:


> Epic dude that is simply gorgeous. Good job! The wheels look awesome in the gloss finish. The black and white paint job is beyond clean. And I love the touches of blue.
> 
> Have you weighed it yet?
> 
> ...


No official weight yet, I estimate around 25 lbs. There are a few items that are not that light, like the tires, but I don't mind trading a little weight for reliability. The remote lockouts and those Oury Chunky Grips also add a little more weight.

Yes, full cable housing for the rear derailleur, I needed to clean some paint out of the holes for the housings to fit but it is the way to go. If I had known to run the full housing ahead of time it would have saved me a bunch of time.

Also, for the brakes, look up online how to shorten the brake lines without needing to bleed the lines after. Basically you move the caliper pistons inward prior to cutting the brake line, then push them back in after reconnecting the line. Saves some time there.



Andy44 said:


> Also epic dude. Are the rims 3k finish also?? And how do you like the sagauro tires??
> Thanks,
> Andy.


In my opinion, the 3K finish looks the best, it is a nice look for the carbon weave, and the gloss finish really makes the 3K weave stand out.

The Geax Saguro tires seem really nice, the rubber is very supple. The tire 120 tpi casing is very flexible, should have excellent grip while providing a smooth ride. They installed easily tubeless with some Orange Sealant.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

You did amazing bike! Could you pls write list of all the parts you use. I'm on my way to build my version of ip-036 chiner =)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

horseinthesky said:


> You did amazing bike! Could you pls write list of all the parts you use. I'm on my way to build my version of ip-036 chiner =)


I think I've posted this earlier but here is a recap of the components:

Frame - XMIplay IP-036, 3k, painted, gloss top coat, BSA BB, 
12x142 Thru Axle

Fork - Fox CTD Remote 100mm Travel, 15mm Thru Axle
Rear shock - Fox CTD Boost Remote
Wheels - XMIplay, 3k gloss, 30mm wide, Bitex Hubs
Bars - XMIplay 680mm flat, 3k gloss finish
Seatpost - XMIplay 31.6 x 400mm, 3k gloss finish
Headset - Neco from XMIplay
Seatclamp - Thomson Elite
Stem - Thomson Elite 90mm
Brakes - Shimano XT, 180mm Fr, 160mm Rr rotors
Cranks - SRAM XX1
Shifter - SRAM XX1
Derailleur - SRAM XX1
Cassette - SRAM XX1
Chain - SRAM XX1
BB - SRAM GXP
Pedals - Eggbeater
Seat - Selle Italia Gel
Tires - Geax Saguaro
Shock Remote Kit - Fox Cable Splitter
Computer - Planet Bike Protege 9
Grips - Oury Lock-on


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Perfect build to me. What did this build cost you?


Epic_Dude said:


> I think I've posted this earlier but here is a recap of the components:
> 
> Frame - XMIplay IP-036, 3k, painted, gloss top coat, BSA BB,
> 12x142 Thru Axle
> ...


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Nice! Makes me want to purchase a FS frame. But I'll enjoy my IP-056 first this summer. Enjoy your ride!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

subspd said:


> Perfect build to me. What did this build cost you?


Right around $4k total, not bad considering a similar all Carbon FS XC bike (w/carbon wheels) would be $7k-$10k depending on the brand. For example, a Santa Cruz Tallboy with XX1 and Enve Carbon wheels is $9,200.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Gorgeous bike!
Is 12mm TA better then QR? I wonder if it is possible to buy rear triangle with 12x142 separately for this frame?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

horseinthesky said:


> Gorgeous bike!
> Is 12mm TA better then QR? I wonder if it is possible to buy rear triangle with 12x142 separately for this frame?


QR is generally fine, a 12mm thru axle basically offers convenience when installing or removing the rear wheel. Some may claim some other advantages but those are only claims, nothing proven. I went with 12x142 for the convenience, I am pretty sure there is also a small weight penalty as a QR axle is much smaller.

Here is a good video:
12 x 142 mm Axles Explained Video - Pinkbike

Some of the XMIplay/HongFu frames have dropouts that are interchangeable with QR & 12mm Thru Axle, you just specify what you want. If you are buying a new wheelset I'd still recommend 12x142 because it makes wheel removal/installation easier. Alignment is spot on every time. Couple that with a clutch derailleur and you will never take more than a few seconds to remove or install the rear wheel. Not to mention, most every manufacturer has moved to this standard on any new MTB.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Or just get 142mm dropouts...

Short answer is yes, a thru axle will provide a stiffer interface.

And wheel changes will be much easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Or just get 142mm dropouts...


_If_ you have the right frame.

There are two different versions of the chainstays on this frame, one with interchangeable hangers, one with standard QR drop-outs. I had to get the QR drop-outs version to get 12K weave on mine. If I wanted the interchangeable one, I'd have had to go 3K or UD. It was likely just a matter of what was in stock. I like the idea of 142x12 but already had a QR wheelset so no big deal for me.

If you wanted to convert to 142x12 and don't have the interchangeable version, you'd need a new chainstay piece.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Hey Guys

First of, thank you for this very informative thread, if not for this i would never have started my own build, and now that i am nearly done I am so happy i did.

This is my build

Flyxii 29" fully
XX1 gear group
XX Monarch rear suspense
SID XX front fork 
XT brakes
Light bicycle carbon wheels








Now unfortunately I am having some trouble with the SID XX fork, the one I currently have is with 100mm travel, I have been offered a new fork only this is with 120mm travel, but I am wondering what it will do to the bike? As for the extra travel it suits me fine i live in a fairly rocky area, and actually kind of missed the extra travel on my virgin ride. But then again I do not want to compromise the general feel and such. Can anyone in here confirm that using a fork with 120mm travel is ok? and maybe explain what consequence it has on the general ride feel

Once again thank you all for this fantastic thread


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I actually prefer the frame with a 120mm fork. I can ride more aggressively, with less pedal strikes and more security. But I do advise a shorter stem to accompany the slacker geometry. I use a 70mm stem with a 740mm low riser.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Thank you! that sounds great. 

Currently my stem is 80 mm 6° and my handlebar is 785 mm low riser. But I guess I am no done fiddling with the cockpit, perhaps a shorter stem will be necessary

BTW what exactly do you mean by slacker geometry? English is not my first language (Danish) therefore some of the terms is a little confusing for me.


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

What about frames for Enduro? Do you think the XMIPlay IP-036 is a proper frame for that purpose?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

kave said:


> What about frames for Enduro? Do you think the XMIPlay IP-036 is a proper frame for that purpose?


This is a 100mm travel XC frame.

Most "enduro" bikes, as marketed, are 140-160mm travel.

What do YOU think the answer to that question is?


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

I have read some are using 120mm on the IP-036.

I figured since some 29" Enduro bikes are 130mm there is not much difference.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> This is a 100mm travel XC frame.
> 
> Most "enduro" bikes, as marketed, are 140-160mm travel.
> 
> What do YOU think the answer to that question is?


Le Duke, what is your take on using a 120mm fork on this frame?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Bishop007 said:


> Le Duke, what is your take on using a 120mm fork on this frame?


Personally, that's fine.

But once you get going down that slippery slope, 130mm is really close to 120mm, right? And 140mm is just a bit more than 130, right?

Soon you have a 150mm front end and a 100mm rear. I realize this is perhaps a bit over the top, but you get my point. I'd keep the front end and rear end similar in capability. They need to be able to handle similar terrain. There's a pretty big difference between a Fox 34 130mm fork and a SID/32 100mm fork on the front end.


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

So, are there any experience with Dual Suspension 29" Enduro Frames?


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Personally, that's fine.
> 
> But once you get going down that slippery slope, 130mm is really close to 120mm, right? And 140mm is just a bit more than 130, right?
> 
> Soon you have a 150mm front end and a 100mm rear. I realize this is perhaps a bit over the top, but you get my point. I'd keep the front end and rear end similar in capability. They need to be able to handle similar terrain. There's a pretty big difference between a Fox 34 130mm fork and a SID/32 100mm fork on the front end.


Hehe  not to worry, (not that I really think you would care) this is not a slippery slope for me, All I want to know is if it is af really bad idea so settle with the 120mm version.

Your point regarding that the front and rear suspension should be similar in capabillity, makes a lot of sense. My rear suspension is 165x38 is that "a long way" from 120mm on the front?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Bishop007 said:


> Hehe  not to worry, (not that I really think you would care) this is not a slippery slope for me, All I want to know is if it is af really bad idea so settle with the 120mm version.
> 
> Your point regarding that the front and rear suspension should be similar in capabillity, makes a lot of sense. My rear suspension is 165x38 is that "a long way" from 120mm on the front?


That's the length of the shock x shock stroke length. It has nothing to do with the actual travel of the frame itself; the frame's linkage will determine the rate of leverage/compression on the shock. From what I understand, though, this frame has between 100-110mm of travel.


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

Strange, since XMIplay refers it to being 110-120mm.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Ahh I see, off course.. I see that Rockshox do not make a SID XX 110mm and due to the fact that one, I can not get a 100mm without waiting maybe forever, and that i would really like a litle more travel, I will give it a go with 120mm


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## tron (Mar 5, 2004)

*How is the ride?*



the-milkybar-kid said:


> Here is my carbonal Titan not rode it yet it comes in at 21.7 lbs so not bad at all


Your bike caught my eye as I am looking for a fs 29er that is more racy/xc oriented since my rides involve a lot of climbing..

I went to the carbonal website but it best used for fr/am. Do you think this is just a translation issue? What types of trails are you riding and how is it riding on them? Thanks.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Bishop007 said:


> Ahh I see, off course.. I see that Rockshox do not make a SID XX 110mm and due to the fact that one, I can not get a 100mm without waiting maybe forever, and that i would really like a litle more travel, I will give it a go with 120mm


SID 120mm with 10mm travel reducing spacer. All RS forks come with a 10mm and 20mm reducer.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

kave said:


> So, are there any experience with Dual Suspension 29" Enduro Frames?


There doesn't seem to be any carbon chinese frames with more than 120mm of rear travel. There are some companies that produce them, but they are catalog bikes that will cost a lot more than $600.

I've already asked this, but are we unable to change the head angle on these chinese made carbon bikes? I feel like they could benefit from an angleset. Although with the integrated cups I'm not sure there is anything we can do.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Any way we could install to offset bushing bolts on the shocks to keep travel the same but slacken the bike a bit?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in and post that my build weighed in at 24 lbs (10.9 Kg). I am sure I could drop about a pound if I were to go with lighter tires. My GEAX Saguaro TNT tires are pretty heavy, 1590g. A tire like a Schwalb Racing Ralph weighs closer to 1100g for a pair.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

My bike is now ready 

I have cycled about 100 km on it in mixed terrain.
Everything works great and I could not have been more satisfied. No problems whatsoever with stiffness as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. When I lock the bike both front and rear is really stiff. With DTs dual lock out, it is like having three bikes in one. Riding a full suspension 29" around 10kg is night and day compared to my old HT 26". Everything goes faster!









*Frame:* FM036 (icluding headset) 2280g
*Brakes:* Formula R1 430g
*Rotors:* Ashima 140g
*Rear suspension:* DT Swiss X313 remote (incuding bushing Set) 210g
*Forks:* DT Swiss XMM 100 TS 29" Forks 15mm (including axle) 1780g
*Remote:* DT dual remote lever 22g
*Wheels:* DT240 hubs, ZTR Crest rims, DT-aerolite spokes. 1490g
*Tyres:* Schwalbe Thunder Burt Snakeskin 1020g
*Stem:* Ritchey WCS C260 Stem 100g
*Handlebar:* Easton EC70 Wide Carbon Flat Bar 720mm 166g
*Grips:* XCR grips white/black 85g
*Seatpost:* Ritchey WCS Carbon One-Bolt Seatpost 200g
*Pedals:* Crankbrothers Candy 1 (titanium spindles on the way) 280g
*Saddle:* Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio white 130g
*Groupset:* XX1 trigger with 34t chainring (including bottom bracket) 1635g

*Total cost:* Pretty pricey, but cheaper than the equivalent Specialized  
*Total weight:* 10.2kg (22lb)


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

eriklanden said:


> My bike is now ready
> 
> I have cycled about 100 km on it in mixed terrain.
> Everything works great and I could not have been more satisfied. No problems whatsoever with stiffness as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. When I lock the bike both front and rear is really stiff. With DTs dual lock out, it is like having three bikes in one. Riding a full suspension 29" around 10kg is night and day compared to my old HT 26". Everything goes faster!
> ...


OMG 10.2 kilos?! Thats amazing! =)
BTW did you build your wheels by yourself of bought it already biult?


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

I finally got 2.5 mm spacers for gxp BB but I still have a few mm space between right crank and BB cup. I don't understand what I do wrong. Any ideas?


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## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

horseinthesky said:


> I finally got 2.5 mm spacers for gxp BB but I still have a few mm space between right crank and BB cup. I don't understand what I do wrong. Any ideas?


That is normal for GXP. Only the NDS (non drive side) should be seated fully. The DS (drive side) should have some spacing.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

horseinthesky said:


> OMG 10.2 kilos?! Thats amazing! =)
> BTW did you build your wheels by yourself of bought it already biult?


Yeah it is pretty light, hope to get it under 10kg with som titanium bolts 
The wheels I bought from Custom Wheels | Wheels | Action Sports Bike Onlineshop

They were very helpful and the wheels were delivered two weeks after I ordered them.


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

eriklanden said:


> Yeah it is pretty light, hope to get it under 10kg with som titanium bolts
> The wheels I bought from Custom Wheels | Wheels | Action Sports Bike Onlineshop
> 
> They were very helpful and the wheels were delivered two weeks after I ordered them.


Could you pls tell me did you use 32 spoke rims? How large is spoke spacing on the rim? 
I just want to connect led strip on my future rims so I need 50mm spacing between them =)


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## motoloco (Feb 23, 2007)

Yishun will not honor their warranty


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Finally finished my versoin of IP-036 Chiner =)
It's heavier then i expected but much lighter then my old Gary Fisher Pirahna 2008 - 12.4 kg.
Had a little ride yesterday about 20 km. Very satisfied with dual suspension. Great bike =)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice build horseinthesky! Our bikes have similar components, except I have remote lock outs for my Fox fork and rear shock and my fork is 100mm. Weight is different though, mine came in at 24lbs (10.9kg) and I know I could easily knock off another pound (0.5kg) just by changing to different tires. These bikes can be very light, it just depends on what components you select, and sometimes cheaper parts can be lighter, you just need to do a little research.

Again, great looking bike!


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

Mine came in at 10.2kg


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Was riding tonight with Russian club NBR(Night Bike Ride) for 73 km. That was incredible =)
XX1 is just gorgeous! Full suspension owns =)
But Mavic hubs are much worse then my old shimano hubs =(
Anyway I like this bike a lot =)


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## motoloco (Feb 23, 2007)

My drive side seat stay pivot bearing "floats" inside its rest. Pushing the wheel side to side moves the bearing and washers. I was told to "glue it" as a solution.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

*hardware*

Does anyone know where I can get these bolts? None of the companies seem to have them.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

brianlancast said:


> Does anyone know where I can get these bolts? None of the companies seem to have them.


Looks like a part from an FM/IP-036 from HongFu or XMIplay, have you contacted either of them?

Would help you you said where the part came from to begin with.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

I cracked the seatstay on my FS that I bought from Flyxi last year. So there are 4 of these holding the seatstays on. As for the companies, I contacted all of them. And by all, I mean Flyxi, Hong-fu, Deng-Fu, and Carbonyl. So far I only heard back from Flyxi and Deng-Fu, both saying they don't have it. And I just bought it from Flyxi last year. And it is the same hardware they are using in the current version(s). I know the discussion keeps coming up whether they are all manufacturers or distributors. I don't care either way. But it seems obvious they are just distributors if they don't carry basic hardware. I'm posting because I'm guessing someone else has had this issue as they are really easy to strip. Any suggestions on alternate sources?



Epic_Dude said:


> Looks like a part from an FM/IP-036 from HongFu or XMIplay, have you contacted either of them?
> 
> Would help you you said where the part came from to begin with.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Try peter @XMIplay, he might be able to order the parts for you but it may be costly to ship the parts to you.


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

He was actually another one I contacted. I haven't heard back from him, but I just sent the email yesterday. But I don't have high hopes. My hunch is that all these companies are getting FS frames already assembled, and simply distributing them that way. Hence, no actual parts on hand. That seems to be the case so far for Deng-Fu and Flyxi. Still waiting to hear back from Peter and Hung-Fu. I hope to be proved wrong. In the meantime, if anyone else has another source for these bolts, I would greatly appreciate knowing.



Epic_Dude said:


> Try peter @XMIplay, he might be able to order the parts for you but it may be costly to ship the parts to you.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

What you are looking for is commonly called a Chicago Screw, Sex Bolt, or Binder Post. You could do some searches and see if you can find something that is close.

Doing a search on eBay for "Mountain Bike Pivot Bolt" turned up some options, check there or keep searching. You need to know the size bolt you need so you need a set of calipers to measure what you have.

Also check McMaster Carr or similar websites that sell mechanical fasteners.

Here is a search I did at McMaster that turned up similar hardware to what you are looking for:
McMaster-Carr


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## brianlancast (Jun 5, 2007)

Thanks! That does seem to be exactly what I need. That was very helpful! I think I need to clear my search history on my work computer now, after doing a search for "chicago screw" and "sex bolt", though.  Thanks again!



Epic_Dude said:


> What you are looking for is commonly called a Chicago Screw, Sex Bolt, or Binder Post. You could do some searches and see if you can find something that is close.
> 
> Doing a search on eBay for "Mountain Bike Pivot Bolt" turned up some options, check there or keep searching. You need to know the size bolt you need so you need a set of calipers to measure what you have.
> 
> ...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

What is the un sagged BB height for these frames? 

If possible, with tire and tire size, please!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.Galactus (Apr 14, 2012)

brianlancast said:


> Thanks! That does seem to be exactly what I need.


I, like many men later in life required a sex bolt.

aka; I over torqued one of the bolts and it snapped so I replaced the two at the suspension mount end with:
M6 Threaded insert tube
M6 X 8 X 25 shoulder bolt
M6 X 8 X 40 shoulder bolt

Weighs about 40 grams more! :eekster: won't be snapping any time soon though and now I have a spare stock bolt for the rear.

[HR][/HR]



Le Duke said:


> What is the un sagged BB height for these frames?
> If possible, with tire and tire size, please!


Mine sits at 31.5cm with 5.08cm tyres (can't mix units)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> What is the un sagged BB height for these frames?
> 
> If possible, with tire and tire size, please!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've measured 13.5" with GEAX Saguaro TNT 2.25"x29" Tires.


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## stevo78 (Aug 4, 2007)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Have been out a few times now and it's a great bike it seems stiffer than my old 036 frame that may just be down to the carbon wheels and it don't feel as long it just feels great everywhere I take it


Milkybar kid what size did you get and how tall are you? I'm 6foot and ride a large Anthem and was wondering if the 18.5 frame would be big enough


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

*Chinese Carbon 29er Full Suspension OR Chinese Carbon 29er Hardtail?*

Why not have both!


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## ZKK007 (Feb 19, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Why not have both!


Man, those are nice!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Does anyone have an IP-036 that looks like a Scott Spark?

I.e., without the diagonal cross brace between the top tube and seat tube?

Like so:

IP-036, IP-036 direct from Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland)

Edit: Never mind. Peter just sent me the geo diagrams for IP-036. It's the 15.5" size that looks like the Spark. Which, luckily, is what I'd ride!


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

fm036 small 15.5, with no brace.Very scott Spark like!!Always attracts interest when parked by the forest tea hut. Suited to 5ft8 riders like myself.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

I have read all pages of this thread and think that 2 frames worth buying are FM036 and Carbonal Titan.
Could those, who have these frame in bare carbon (without paint) size 17,5/17" , share weights?
Thanks.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

I´m no expert, so hope someone here can help.
FM036 and Titan frames have a bit different construction on the rear shock area (linkage?). Is one better than other and will one have smoother ride over roots etc?
Titan:








FM036:


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Don't think there will be any difference.


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## motoloco (Feb 23, 2007)

Head angle, seat post angle, pivot location are all different. I have seen two China Carbon full suspension, and they're gahbage! Spend the extra for an actual planned out suspension design and not something that's just thrown together with no regard for performance. Or get what you pay for as the old wise saying goes


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Rainerhq said:


> Titan frames have a bit different construction on the rear shock area (linkage?).
> Titan:
> View attachment 891199


What is this and where can I get it? How much? What travel and shock sizes? What sizes are available? Top tube lengths?

EDIT:

DIRECT: $689.00
Titan is a capable suspension frame for riders who like to challenge themselves. Developed for passionate mountain bikers, Titan gives its rider confidence in most situations.

Carbonal Titan 29er Suspension Frame Specifications:

Model: Titan 29

Use for: AM / FR

Material: T700 & T800 High Modulus Carbon Fiber

Finish: UD black matt & gloss

Headset Size: 1-1/8", 1-1/2"

BB Type: BSA or BB92 (optional)

BB Shell Width: 68mm / 92mm

Frame Size: 17" / 18.5"

Frame Weight: 1850gm (4.08 lbs) - 18.5"

Travel: F 100mm, R 100mm

Shock: 165mm (eye to eye)

Seatpost Diameter: Ø 31.6mm

Seat Clamp Diameter: Ø 34.9mm

Dropouts: 135mm QR

*Still want to know the top tube lengths.*


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## Dibbs_ (Feb 17, 2009)

Titan 29er MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

motoloco said:


> pivot location are all different.


That´s what I meant. 
Will those two frames act differently on rooty trail?
Will be use this bike on XC marathons and XCO events, not just for fun.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

motoloco said:


> Head angle, seat post angle, pivot location are all different. I have seen two China Carbon full suspension, and they're gahbage! Spend the extra for an actual planned out suspension design and not something that's just thrown together with no regard for performance. Or get what you pay for as the old wise saying goes


Dude, WTF? If you don't think a FS Carbon 29er is any good, why do you even post here, you don't have to buy one if you don't like it. On the other hand I own one, and it's a great bike, just as good as any FS Carbon 29er I rode from Trek, Giant, Scott, Speciallized, or Pivot. So, since what you have is only opinion, we will leave at that, a worthless opinion from someone who is closed minded and believes you need to spend $3,000 on a frame to get anything that's not garbage. Great, I'm glad someone supports the enormous margins of the big name bike companies, but I'm not one of those customers.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

wconcretej said:


> fm036 small 15.5, with no brace.Very scott Spark like!!Always attracts interest when parked by the forest tea hut. Suited to 5ft8 riders like myself.
> View attachment 888805
> 
> View attachment 888804


Nice bike, very stealthy .


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Epic_Dude said:


> Dude, WTF? If you don't think a FS Carbon 29er is any good, why do you even post here, you don't have to buy one if you don't like it. On the other hand I own one, and it's a great bike, just as good as any FS Carbon 29er I rode from Trek, Giant, Scott, Speciallized, or Pivot. So, since what you have is only opinion, we will leave at that, a worthless opinion from someone who is closed minded and believes you need to spend $3,000 on a frame to get anything that's not garbage. Great, I'm glad someone supports the enormous margins of the big name bike companies, but I'm not one of those customers.


This is a very simple way of looking at the subject. 
Fact is that the chinese carbon frames that we have tested are good performing bikes with good carbon parts. But fact is too, that the construction of the pivots are cheap and poor made. Low quality alloy and steel for the parts. Low quality bearings. Poor dimensional accuracy of the pivot parts like axle, screws,...
All this is no problem when the bike is new. But creaking noise and play will soon be a big problem. We will see where your highly acclaimed frames are after five years of use. There is placed too little emphasis on the construction of the moving parts. But if this were improved, the price for the frames would be higher...

Regarding to this point it is correct to say "you get what you pay for"!


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

I can replace bearings, but what about other pivot parts? Can these be replaced also?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Okay, I will agree that the pivots are not the highest quality, there are no grease fittings, or anything particularly notable in the pivot design. However, the pivot design is very simple, and if maintained with some grease, mine do not creak. The bearings are probably not long life but are not expensive and are easy to replace.

I owned an Aluminum Specialized Epic and the pivot design was very, very similar, the bearings in that frame lasted only about 4 years before they started feeling rough when I would remove them and service the pivot points. I thought about replacing them, but didn't bother because when installed back in the frame they worked fine. BTW, if the pivots on my specialized were not greased every season, that frame would creak just the same as any other FS bike. It also had a similar amount of play in the pivot joints as my FS Chinese frame. The Brain shock in particular had a nice clunk-clunk when riding down rough sections of trail, I ended up adding a small pad to the side of the shock to reduce the rattle. I also ended up paying the Specialized dealer $350 to rebuild the Brain shock when the inertia valve failed to operate, that's about the price I paid for a new Fox CTD shock on my Chiner.

Since there was no way I was going to fork out $3k for a big brand carbon frame, I'm very happy with my purchase, and the extra $2,300 back in my pocket I could practically build another bike. Grease and replacement bearings are inexpensive, the metal bolts used in the pivots are fine, if someone is concerned about those, they can request an extra set of hardware when ordering the frame, can't imagine that would cost more than $100 bucks for all the pivot hardware, or in 3-5 years, I can just buy a new frame with all the latest improvements. For the money, you are not getting the latest in carbon frame design but you are getting a decent frame at a decent price.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

Anyone who has Titan 29er, could you please tell, how much did your frame weight.
Carbonal claims 1850g, but it sounds too good, because FM036 is ca 2100g


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

maettu said:


> This is a very simple way of looking at the subject.
> Fact is that the chinese carbon frames that we have tested are good performing bikes with good carbon parts. But fact is too, that the construction of the pivots are cheap and poor made. Low quality alloy and steel for the parts. Low quality bearings. Poor dimensional accuracy of the pivot parts like axle, screws,...
> All this is no problem when the bike is new. But creaking noise and play will soon be a big problem. We will see where your highly acclaimed frames are after five years of use. There is placed too little emphasis on the construction of the moving parts. But if this were improved, the price for the frames would be higher...
> 
> Regarding to this point it is correct to say "you get what you pay for"!


5 Years ? My bike will be obsolete by that time. Most of us are not building bikes for our grandsons to inherit. We build to ride and destroy them on the trail. If you are riding a 2009 bike with it's original components you must not ride hard. Are we talking about mountain bikes or collectible action figures ? If my frame last 2 years I will be ready again to buy another one.


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## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

You guys are both right!


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I would add:
"you get what you pay for, but with diminishing returns." 

In this case, paying double won't get you double better frame. Actually, to get brand frames is not double, is quadruple.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

charlesrg said:


> I would add:
> "you get what you pay for, but with diminishing returns."
> 
> In this case, paying double won't get you double better frame. Actually, to get brand frames is not double, is quadruple.


True, an IP-036 is around $700, most big name FS carbon frames are priced around $2,800. So for 1/4 the price, I decided to give a Chinese FS 29er a try.

BTW, if anyone is worried about suspension pivots being noisy, needing to replace bearings, and needing regular service, buy a hardtail bike.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I solved that problem by buying a bearing puller and a simple bearing press...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> I solved that problem by buying a bearing puller and a simple bearing press...


For the sake of being clear to others reading this forum, a bearing puller/press is not necessary, these frames do not use press fit bearings. Once you disassemble the pivot, the bearing drops out.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Epic_Dude said:


> For the sake of being clear to others reading this forum, a bearing puller/press is not necessary, these frames do not use press fit bearings. Once you disassemble the pivot, the bearing drops out.


Good to know. I don't have my IP-036 just yet.

I guess my general point was that bearing replacements are really, really easy to do if you have the tools, which are relatively cheap. So are bearings. The biggest cost, if you have a shop do it, is labor. $20 in bearings and several times that in labor, at every shop I've been to.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Do you guys know if a 156 Q-Factor crank would fit on the IP-036 ?

I have the frame and about to order the crank. With my measurements the area where the crank arm ends is 118mm wide. According to SRAM the 156Q is 129mm wide, so I should have about 5.5 mm on each side. 
The 168Q is 141mm wide. So EL34 and the others with 168Q should have 11mm on each side. 
If anyone has a Q156 or can measure the gap on the Q168 I would really appreciate.

Sram info: [https://www.sram.com/sites/default/...90_rev_c_-_1x11_frame_fit_specifications.pdf]

Thank you.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

For the IP-036, 168Q, there is 16mm clearance on the drive side, 9mm clearance on the non-drive side. You will lose about 4mm per side with 156Q.

Edit: I found my problem, for the IP-036 I needed to install the 2.5mm spacers for the SRAM GXP bottom bracket. I now have a more even gap of 12mm-13mm on each side.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Anyone want to make a list of the chinese venders
you know
which ones charge more
which ones charge less
which ones have hidden charges
something like that

has anyone reported in after 
10,000 miles of trails


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

chrisx said:


> Anyone want to make a list of the chinese venders
> you know
> which ones charge more
> which ones charge less
> ...


Nah, most of us just order from PeterQ at XMIplay, his prices are within a few dollars of there others that sell the same thing and his communication is much better.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

checky said:


> Not just Pro bikes can be light ... or lets say: If I get the hand on a Scalpel 29er I will be able to build it below 9Kg's with a Pro budget
> 
> Here is my build:
> Component Typ weight:
> ...


Could you please explain, which bolts can be replaced, to get this frame lighter?
Is the Flyxii frame same as IP-036?


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all of the information that is available in the is thread. I have read through most of the 51 pages and still have a quick question. 

I am awaiting my frame to be delivered and am in the process of lining up the rest of my parts.

While I see that some have had success with both Fox rp2/Fox CTD and Monarch shocks I am wondering what compression tune/rebound tune did you order? 



In case anyone is interested here is what my build list looks like so far:
Reba Fork
Reynolds Carbon 29er XC Wheelset
Enve Flat Bar
1x10 (11/40)
XTR Shifter
XTR Shadow Plus Rear
XTR Cassette
OneUp 40t large cog 
Race Face Next SL - narrow-wide ring - Cinch system
Fizik Tundra 2 Saddle - k*ium rails
Crank Brothers Cobalt 11 Post
Time ATAC 8 Pedals
Schwalbe Racing Ralph/Rocket Ron tires
XTR Trail Brakes / XT ICE Rotors (180/160)
ESI Chunky Grips

Still deciding on:
Rear Shock
Cable Kit
Stem - waiting to see fit


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Looks like you will have a nice build spec'd out. I see you want to go 1x but must like a Shimano drivetrain. Otherwise I'd tell you to give SRAM 1x11 a try. You may get the R/D cable with the shifter, so you may not need the cable kit.

For the rear shock, you seem to like the Reba fork so I would suggest pairing it with a Rockshox Monarch XX shock. Also, I would look into remote lockouts for both the fork and shock, actuated with a single lever. Otherwise, consider just getting a remote lockout on the rear shock to help with climbing.


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks Epic, I am a Shimano fan but there are a number of reasons for 1x10. (price, weight and compatibility being the main reasons) I have 2x10 sram on my HT and like i but am looking for a 1x set up that can be share parts with other bikes and that gives me an option for 2x if needed for certain rides/trips. 

Any suggestion on the rear shock compression/damping tunes? 

I am leaning towards the Monarch but have never ridden the Fox CTD (only the RP23 which I was happy with)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Depends on the trails you ride but the medium tune seems to work fine for most people.

I suppose you can always change it later if you want.

I have a Fox CTD Remote Boost Valve on mine and it fine but I tend to think the Fox products need more frequent maintenance.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

*Just built another IP-036 *

Okay, my turn to brag about my new bike: 
So far 23.6 lbs. I still need to trim the cables and I'm running the shifter cable all the way to the back so there is no dirty getting into the housing.


FrameIP-036 21"Rear ShockRockShox Monarch XX Rear Shock with ABI shock needle bearingFront ForkRockShox SID XX Solo Air 100 29" 9QR Black MotionControl DNA XLoc Handlebar Remote Right TaperedFork RemoteRockshox Xloc Full Sprint (hydraulic remote for front and rearHeadsetHeadsetWheelsetPeters 35mm wide wheelsSkewarsOrdered with FrameRear DerailleurXX1Front BrakeShimano XT BR-M785/785-B Disc Brake Caliper & LeverRear BrakeShimano XT BR-M785/785-B Disc Brake Caliper & LeverBrake Rotors SetShimano ICE Tech 160mmCranksetXX1 156Q 175mmChainringXX1 32TShifterSRAM X01 11-Speed Trigger Shifter Black/GrayCassetteXX1 11 SpeedChainPC-XX1 Chain - 1×11 specificHandlebarsCarbon Bars generic direct purchaseStemIntegrated with HandlebarSeatpostCarbon with FrameSeatpost Collar ClampWith FrameSaddleWTB VIGOGripsFoam/Gel GripsPedalsShimano XTTiresMaxxis IKON 2.35 / Racing Ralph 2.25 rearTubesNot requiredTubeless FluidStan's Fluid for both wheelsCablesIncluded with Shifter and Brakes


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Hi Charles, nice build. The weight is very similar to my build, under 24 lbs is very nice. Looks forward to seeing a picture and hearing about how you like it.


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## xcmania (May 17, 2014)

hi , just to let you know i am interested in building the 26 er 17.5 but will wait for more information, i have had a cheaper quote but will confirm everything when / if i go ahead , the shock for frame is key , so will wait for the likes of jenny and the experts for further details.


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## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

the-milkybar-kid said:


> Here is my carbonal Titan not rode it yet it comes in at 21.7 lbs so not bad at all


Hi milkybar!

Can you share your experience with Titan 29er?


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## Uraniumc (May 26, 2014)

So I have been reading this thread and the other HT carbon for thread for a while.
I finally bought a frame after I found one on sale with free shipping and no paypal fees.
$598. shipped....not bad at all.. seller has great communication.. very helpful

2 years warranty15" 19" Suspension mountain bike/bicycle frame,OEM 29er Full Carbon fiber carbon Suspension MTB bike frame.-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

I have started buying parts, haven't decided on front derailleurs, crankset, BB yet... I don't know what derailleur will fit on this bike.. I think e type from what I read.... and I will probably get a tripe crankset... and until I decide on those two things I dont know which BB adapter to get.

I ordered my frame UD matte, with a pF30 bb... I figure if the BB is bigger then all I need is an adaptor to fit more types of bb and crankset. or should I change my order and just get a bsa type bb instead? (since shimano crankset sometimes comes with a threaded BB) any Input on crankset and derailleur would be appreciated. I already have a 10 speed shimano deore cassette mounted on my hubset. should I match it with the same brand or get a sram pf30 type crankset?

anyways here is what I am going to have on the bike if I manage to get all the parts I ordered... some from ebay some from aliexpress

Frame: Specialized Enduro expert carbon clone, 12x142mm, 1980g
Fork: Manitou tower pro 140 mm QR15, Tapered, 1698g 
Bar: 700mm FSA K-Force carbon fiber handlebar 31.8mm, 300g (guess)
Seatpost: 31.6mm FSA RK-160 carbon fiber seatpost 400mm, 300g
Stem: FSA DS99 carbon fiber stem, 300g
Saddle: Norco saddle for another bike
Brakes: SHIMANO DEORE XT hydraulic brakes set
Headset: China no name brand
Rear Shock: 2013 DT Swiss 212 Rear Shock with remote. (200mm x 50mm)
Groupset: SHIMANO DEORE XT 10 speed sprocket, shifters
Missing front derailleurs...
Crankset: WHat should I get for my PF30 bracket???
Rims: WTB Frequency i23 29er tubeless
Hubs: DT Swiss 350 6 bolt, 12x142mm back, 15mm front, thru axel
Tires: Maxxis Ardent 29 x 2.25
QR rear: 
QR front: Manitou QR15 hex lock
Seat clamp: china white qr clamps 31.8mm
Pedals: 
Handlebar grips:
Chain:

need a dt swiss mounting kit for my shocks...

any suggestions on the things I still need to get?

for people wonder on cost.. not all my parts are new.. I am at $1200 so far. probably will spend another $300 on the parts I am missing


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi,
just a quick video link to a friendly weekly local race series I do each year on the outskirts of London. It's my first year on my fm036 and with four races under my belt , its been really good with my tubeless set-up; I seem to be be cornering better with tubeless!!
Spot me if you can i'm in about 5 shots.

Enjoy!


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is a picture of my build:







On the first ride I've got able to lower 4 minutes of my time when compared to my 29er hardtail.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Really nice build Charles. I see you have a similar issue that I did with the remote cable routed through the frame. I ended up changing my to loop back around, works fine either way, I just didn't like the hard bend in the cable.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

wconcretej said:


> Hi,
> just a quick video link to a friendly weekly local race series I do each year on the outskirts of London. It's my first year on my fm036 and with four races under my belt , its been really good with my tubeless set-up; I seem to be be cornering better with tubeless!!
> Spot me if you can i'm in about 5 shots.
> 
> Enjoy!


Nice video thanks for uploading.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Epic_Dude said:


> Nice video thanks for uploading.


Thanks for watching, im the dude with no race number; got caught in traffic and just managed to sign on for the race!


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> Really nice build Charles. I see you have a similar issue that I did with the remote cable routed through the frame. I ended up changing my to loop back around, works fine either way, I just didn't like the hard bend in the cable.


True, I saw your pictures, I believe on Fox is a bit tighter, the RockShox has a bit more space, however I still thinking about changing it. My cables are all very long I will do a trim on it all.

The SID XX fork is awesome. And the Xloc Full Sprint make this bike the best for downhill and uphill.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

charlesrg said:


> True, I saw your pictures, I believe on Fox is a bit tighter, the RockShox has a bit more space, however I still thinking about changing it. My cables are all very long I will do a trim on it all.
> 
> The SID XX fork is awesome. And the Xloc Full Sprint make this bike the best for downhill and uphill.


I agree, having the ability to lockout suspension, either partially or fully, with the flick of a lever adds another dimension to the bike.

As for the cable loop, what you have looks fine. Mine was a bit tighter so changing the direction of the cable stop on the shock and looping the cable around improved my routing, although I'm still not 100% happy with it but it works fine.


----------



## Rainerhq (Jan 11, 2011)

charlesrg said:


> View attachment 898437


Looks racey


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

I am liking the Titan more than the 036...but seems the Titan isn't availbe in a small size.

Also, does any of these distributors offer a 12K carbon option? Seems to me someone posted one earlier with some light blue lettering on it.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Yoeleo Bike have 12K as an option on their web site. I'd be interested to know if they are just another seller or are manufacturing. They have released Yoeleo branded road bikes that look great.


----------



## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

They have removed all things MTB from their products list


----------



## mbogosia (Aug 2, 2004)

Lee *********** Ba Ding Dong


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

omnivore said:


> They have removed all things MTB from their products list


Here is their MTB page:
Mountain Bike Frame - Carbon Fiber MTB Frame Set Yoeleo


----------



## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

I was using this site- seems they have a few websites. The one you posted sure is easy to navigate, has prices, shipping and options laid right out. Nice. I think I know where my frame will come from.
Yoeleo - Bicycle - Carbon Bicycle - Bike - Carbon Bike


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

It's the best looking site I've seen, but I haven't purchased anything there. I also haven't heard any feedback from others. Their youtube chanel is good too.

Just how many manufacturers there are is my biggest question at the moment. If you cross reference the Flybike website with the popular sellers' web sites, it seems that they are sourcing from ore than one manufacturer. Case in point is that there is no disc road frame on the Flybike site, yet most, or maybe all sellers have them.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

omnivore said:


> I was using this site- seems they have a few websites. The one you posted sure is easy to navigate, has prices, shipping and options laid right out. Nice. I think I know where my frame will come from.
> Yoeleo - Bicycle - Carbon Bicycle - Bike - Carbon Bike


http://www.yoeleo.com/

If you want a better price and excellent communication, I'd recommend ordering from Peter at XMIplay. Lots of happy customers here on MTBR.



MagicCarpet said:


> It's the best looking site I've seen, but I haven't purchased anything there. I also haven't heard any feedback from others. Their youtube chanel is good too.
> 
> Just how many manufacturers there are is my biggest question at the moment. If you cross reference the Flybike website with the popular sellers' web sites, it seems that they are sourcing from ore than one manufacturer. Case in point is that there is no disc road frame on the Flybike site, yet most, or maybe all sellers have them.


Many sellers, only a few manufacturers.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> [/URL]
> 
> If you want a better price and excellent communication, I'd recommend ordering from Peter at XMIplay. Lots of happy customers here on MTBR.
> 
> Many sellers, only a few manufacturers.


I sign at the bottom. Peter from XMI Play all the way. Very good customer service and post sales support. Fast shipping. Well packaged boxes. Have order from him multiple times and always been satisfied. I've dealt and order from others as well but Peter had better knowledge and his english is also excellent.


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## Pukco (Jun 1, 2013)

Hello,

I just cancelled my IP-256 and ordered a IP-036 instead. I now then need a rear shock. Never had a FS bike so do not know too much about what to get and what to think about. The bike will be used mostly for XC/Marathon racing. What do you guys think of Monarch XX Solo Air Dual Flow 165x38mm X-Loc | Monarch ?

Is it correct that I also need two sets of this Bushing Set for Monarch/Vivid 22.2 x 8mm | Accessories ? Think I read in earlier posts that the IP-036 is 22,2mm.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Pukco, both the Rockshox Monarch XX and the Fox CTD are good. You might also see if the DT Swiss Shock is available at a good price around you. As for bushing size, my Fox CTD came with the correct size for one end but I needed to order a different bushing for the other end, the one it came with was too large. Given tolerance variation, I'm not sure that every IP-036 would use the same bushing size.

I would suggest waiting until you have both the frame and the shock to determine what size bushings you will need. The Fox bushings are available in 1mm increments so it's best to measure your frame and get the exact size you need for your frame.

Lastly, if you are looking to do a remote lockout, consider a remote lockout for both your fork and shock, being able to lock out both with the flick of a single lever (twin-loc) is really nice, both Rockshocks and Fox have this option. 

If you do both you will need to have the same brand of fork and shock for them to be able to lock out together.

Also, when you are ready to order your IP-036, send Peter at XMIplay.com an email, he's been great to work with so I like to steer business his way.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

^This. Seriously. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pukco (Jun 1, 2013)

Epic_Dude said:


> Pukco, both the Rockshox Monarch XX and the Fox CTD are good. You might also see if the DT Swiss Shock is available at a good price around you. As for bushing size, my Fox CTD came with the correct size for one end but I needed to order a different bushing for the other end, the one it came with was too large. Given tolerance variation, I'm not sure that every IP-036 would use the same bushing size.
> 
> I would suggest waiting until you have both the frame and the shock to determine what size bushings you will need. The Fox bushings are available in 1mm increments so it's best to measure your frame and get the exact size you need for your frame.
> 
> ...


Thanks a alot for the answer! Yes i thought of the twin-loc feature. I now got a Fox CTD with the lockout directly on the fork, not to happy about this fork and that will be the next upgrade. 
Thank you for the bushing tip, I will wait until I get my frame.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I would not get a full suspension bike without lockouts.
If I just needed a carbon bike without the best components on my build I would get a Foundry. The Foundry Broadaxe - Dirt Race 29er - Disc Brake - Thru Axle | Foundry Cycles


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

My build is with a Monarc XX rear supension and Sid XX front fork, both with lockout, not twin though as they are hydraulic and therefore dont support that solution. None the less I am really happy with that setup, and when both closed the bike is really stiff and racey.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Bishop007 said:


> My build is with a Monarc XX rear supension and Sid XX front fork, both with lockout, not twin though as they are hydraulic and therefore dont support that solution. None the less I am really happy with that setup, and when both closed the bike is really stiff and racey.


The SRAM Twin-Lockout is absolutely available for the Monarch XX rear and Sid XX fork, here is the info from bike rumor, it was announced more than a year ago:

SOC13: RockShox Intoduces XLoc Full Sprint Dual Lockout, Dig Valve, 27.5 Revelation, SID & more


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> The SRAM Twin-Lockout is absolutely available for the Monarch XX rear and Sid XX fork, here is the info from bike rumor, it was announced more than a year ago:
> 
> SOC13: RockShox Intoduces XLoc Full Sprint Dual Lockout, Dig Valve, 27.5 Revelation, SID & more


Thank you, I was not aware of this, some time ago i saw on this forum that is was not possible due to different pressure. But anyway this is great I will definitfly look into this.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Regardless of the pressure in the air chambers of the fork and shock, they are controlled by a hose filled with hydraulic fluid...which is not compressible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I have the Xloc Full Sprint on mine.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Pressure is of course the wrong term to use, I guess i was aming at the "same" amount of fluid to activate/deactivate the lockout, none the less the dual lockout is available. now I just need to figure out if it is worth the upgrade.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Anybody have any standover height information?

I want the 19" IP-036 as I like a 24" ETT, but I have short legs and am worried about the standover height.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a 17.5" IP-036
I am 5 foot 7 to 8 ish with a 30 inch inseam. I buy 30" leg jeans if that helps.

I don't have any frame measurements for you as I am not near the bike right now, but I would not want a larger frame than a 17.5"

The stand over is maxed out for me, but the cockpit with a 110mm stem and a straight seatpost feels perfect. The reach to the bars and my position on the seat are perfect.

Any larger frame and I would be knocking the boys hard on a quick dismount.

I had a small Yeti SB95 with a 110mm stem, which was about a 17" frame and I had to use a Thompson setback post in order to get the same feel I get with the 17.5 IP-036 and a straight seat post


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I appreciate the feedback...

Unfortunately, you told me what I was afraid to hear. I too, have a 30 inch inseam. But I have a long torso and long arms and prefer a longer top tube. I like a stem around 70 to 80 mm, which means the 17.5 is too short in reach and (from what you say) the 19 is too tall in stand over


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, I bet a 19 would be too large for you. Maybe not the cockpit reach, but definitely the standover

Can you take the IP-036 17.5 frame measurements and compare them to another brand that you can do an actual step over at a LBS?

Like a specialized or Trek or any brand. Scott has a frame that is almost the same thing as an IP-036. Saw one on the back of a car the other day. If it did not say Scott on the bike I would have swore it was a IP-036

I can do some actual measurements on my IP-036 for you if you tell me exactly what you want me to measure?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

As a comparison, I rode a buddies carbon Tallboy the other day.

It was a medium and it felt smaller than my 17.5 IP-036.

I was off the back of the seat and the standover was lower.
I would have had to put a setback post on that frame and a longer stem
But I think the top tube was scooped down lower on the Tallboy


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I have a large IP-036, 32" inseam, stand over seems fine for me. With a 30" inseam, a large would probably be too tall for you.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

According to SCOTT, a Spark has the following:

17.5"
S/O - 30.2"

19"
S/O - 31.7"

That's similar to my Giant AX29. I had to buy a Med to clear the top tube, but have ended up running a 90-105mm stem. I can't use a setback saddle post as my femur length is short, and it puts my knee behind the pedal instead of KOP.

Well, damn. A Large SC TB2c or a Niner Jet 9c would fit me the best. At 2-3x the price.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

El34 said:


> As a comparison, I rode a buddies carbon Tallboy the other day.
> 
> It was a medium and it felt smaller than my 17.5 IP-036.


Santa Cruz bikes typically have relatively short top tubes. My buddies Large Nomad had a TT that was 3/4" shorter than my old Spesh Enduro.

It's really crazy how much sizing varies across brands. It also helps if you're of normal proportions and not a 6'2" guy from the waist up. Lol


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

For the ones curious if the IP-036 is race proof.
Started last, had to pass 34 guys, could have taken 2nd but I spent lots of time passing others and could not catch before the end.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice!!!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Great job Charles! It's nice to have a good bike but it takes a good bike + a good rider to win a race.


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

is any seller selling these frames.. as premade bikes with additional margin? (ie with only a little assembly but no BB pain and having to cut the steering tube.. and bonus point if you dont have to pull cables)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Then consensus is, you order the parts and if you want some of the bike built for you, find a local bike shop that is willing to do the work at a reasonable price.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Epic_Dude said:


> Then consensus is, you order the parts and if you want some of the bike built for you, find a local bike shop that is willing to do the work at a reasonable price.


Yeah, I agree
What's the chances of finding a merchant on line selling the exact frame you want and the exact parts you want?

Or find a LBS that is willing to make a deal on the parts and assemble the bike for you with their parts


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## boubla (May 12, 2012)

i think many would compromise on the components like they do at brand shops - except the chinese stuff is cheaper really. Will ask my LBS


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Found a Scott dealer why was traveling in Utah this week… Was able to throw a leg over a spark both large and medium. The stand over on the large is tight, but he didn't feel unmanageable. Was able to demo a size large genius 740, which has a similar stand over height to a large spark. The bike felt really good.

Surprised at how much I like the genius, may try to find a shop in Denver that has a spark available to demo.

Question for the group (sorry if I didn't take time to dig through all the pages, or if this has already been answered) how are people routing external dropper post hoses and/or cables? Guessing zipties around carbon is a no-no.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh another thing I noticed, was that every Scott had what appeared to be a polyurethane or plastic bushing on the rear most pivot. The material was that yellow green brown color that Fox is using on their new style shock bushings. Looks like they used that keep that pivot from developing any lateral play, which has been noted earlier for these frames.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hokiebrett said:


> Oh another thing I noticed, was that every Scott had what appeared to be a polyurethane or plastic bushing on the rear most pivot. The material was that yellow green brown color that Fox is using on their new style shock bushings. Looks like they used that keep that pivot from developing any lateral play, which has been noted earlier for these frames.


Most likely Delrin material.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes. For lack of a better term, it looked like they had vertical Derlin "washers" in the pivot.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Uraniumc said:


> So I have been reading this thread and the other HT carbon for thread for a while.
> I finally bought a frame after I found one on sale with free shipping and no paypal fees.
> $598. shipped....not bad at all.. seller has great communication.. very helpful
> 
> ...


It certainly looks like an Enduro but the head and seat tumble angles are much steeper. I'm interested to what you think after riding it. I'd be more interested in a Mach 429 or Ripley clone. I've been beating the hell out of a Hung Fu ***** (fm-056) for over year with no problems.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

All the more prominent Chinese frames have head angles of 71° and rather longish headtubes. Can anyone recommend a frame with <= 70° (and shorter headtube, e.g a medium frame with 115 mm is longish for me. 100-105 mm would be "modern" [for me])?


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

*My build info*


Part  Model Grams Price Frame IP-036 2,200 $846.00 Rear Shock RockShox Monarch XX Rear Shock 165 x 38, Eye to eye length: 6.5" and Stroke: 1.5" with 2 sets of mounting hardware 340 $284.83 Front Fork RockShox SID XX World Cup Solo Air 100 29 1,485 $970.35 Headset Headset 144 $20.50 Wheelset XMI Carbon 30mm with Novatec 142x12 / 15mm Axle 1,100 $756.40 Skewars Axles 100 $21.50 Rear Derailleur XX1 Deraileur 220 $254.60 Front Brake Shimano XT BR-M785/785-B Disc Brake Caliper & Lever 220 $123.79 Rear Brake Shimano XT BR-M785/785-B Disc Brake Caliper & Lever 307 $122.79 Brake Rotors Set Shimano XT RT86 IceTech 160mm 6-Bolt Rotor 162 $86.60 Crankset RAM XX1 BB30 175mm 168Q 465 $303.48 Chainring SRAM XX1 X-Sync 32 Tooth 55 $82.22 Shifter SRAM XX1 Trigger 11 Speed Shifter with Handlebar Clamp 91 $144.64Bottom BracketSRAM BB306131.20 Cassette SRAM XX1 10-42 11 Speed Cassette 260 $536.80 Chain SRAM XX1 11 Speed Chain 118 links 252 $45.92 Handlebars Carbon Integrated handlebar 600mm or 700mm 250 $110.00 Stem Integrated with Bar 0 Seatpost Carbon Seatpost 195 $61.20 Seatpost Collar Clamp Alloy seatpost collar 18 $20.00 Saddle WTB Vigo Pro Gray Saddle CroMo Rails 340 $56.40 Grips ESI Chunky 60 $15.00 Pedals Shimano XT PD-M780 343 $81.99 Tires Schwalbe Racing Ralph Tubeless-Ready Tire, 29x2.25 EVO Folding Bead Black with PaceStar Compound and SnakeSkin 1,210 $114.84 Tubes Not required Tubeless Fluid Stan's Fluid for both wheels 40 $24.70 Cables & Bike Fairies Cables and Straps 50 $12.80 Estimated Weight 9,968

Total bike parts with Frame $5100
Assembled tuned and packed bike total $5600, included tubeless conversion, hydraulic cables trimming. Added $220 for Xloc Full Sprint conversion.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Hi Charles, thanks for the info on your build. Mine was similar only the weight is 10.8kg (24 lbs) and cost was $4,250.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi Guys, 
Finaly i get my frame, after waiting for 1 1/2 months.
myplay IP-036.
One question for everybody with this frame.
I Have some play on the connection between chainstay and the seatstay, basically is a lateral play . 
I already remove and regrease all tight it properly but still got some play

I went to my LBS for fine tuning and they laughing off me say this is a dangerous experiment ( of course they try to sell me a giant athem 3 month ago).lol. only the time will decide how is right.

Frame IP-036 Large Matte.
Shimano xt brakes and rotors.
Thomson elite x4 handlerbar, stem, seat collar
carbom 35mm wheelset, maxis arden tires
Rockshox Sid XX Black 120mm.
Rockshox monach black.
carbon seat post
Fizik Goblin Carbon
X01 Groupset.
ODI Rufian grips
Shimano spd pedals.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nothing wrong with the gaps on the rear pivots, the guys at the LBS laugh because they think unless you paid $3k for a FS carbon frame, what you have is garbage.

Tell them these frames have been raced in endurance races, thousands of miles from hundreds of users and not one reported failure. They are built in the same factories as those that have the the big brand names on them.

You'll be fine, go ride your new bargain priced, carbon 29er and smile.


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

@Angel212, just curios how much your build weighs with your RShox SID? I have the same incoming frame size 19 also but planning to put 120mm Talas. Can't wait for my build, I hope Peter delivers fast as item is in stock, it's only painting new color he has to do


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Padyakero said:


> @Angel212, just curios how much your build weighs with your RShox SID? I have the same incoming frame size 19 also but planning to put 120mm Talas. Can't wait for my build, I hope Peter delivers fast as item is in stock, it's only painting new color he has to do


25.5 lbs. with pedals and the maxxis arden tires ( a little heavy)


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

@Angel212, that's light enough for an MTB. I've ridden with guys hauling 13-15kg AMs and hardtails!! 

If you don't mind, could you share with me the exact measurements of your rear shock bushings? I'm thinking of ordering them online while waiting for my frame from Peter so I can ride it immediately 



Angel212 said:


> 25.5 lbs. with pedals and the maxxis arden tires ( a little heavy)


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

@Padyakero, The bushing size i order was 22.2x8mm (2set).
I order from a guy in ebay Cyclepartsintl1.
Rockshox Monarch RL, 6.5x1.5 (165x38) Fast black body,
Rockshox SID XX solo air 120mm 29. Maxlite 15 Black. Motion control DNA Xloc. 
paid for both $779 + 15 each bushing.



Padyakero said:


> @Angel212, that's light enough for an MTB. I've ridden with guys hauling 13-15kg AMs and hardtails!!
> 
> If you don't mind, could you share with me the exact measurements of your rear shock bushings? I'm thinking of ordering them online while waiting for my frame from Peter so I can ride it immediately


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Angel212 said:


> One question for everybody with this frame.
> I Have some play on the connection between chainstay and the seatstay, basically is a lateral play .
> I already remove and regrease all tight it properly but still got some play


Those are exactly the gaps I was talking about when I took at look at the Scott frames last week. When I looked at a bunch of Sparks and Genius', I noticed they all had Derlin in there (sorry, didn't think to take a picture).

Maybe we could sweet talk a Scott dealer to sell the green Derlin washers/bushings and see if they fit the IP-036?

Another thought would be taking the hardware to ACE and seeing if they have any thin shims or plastic washers that could be used to fill that gap.

All you would need is a thin shim to take up the lateral play (if any) in the joint.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

And would some people that don't have the TwinLoc system mind posting up how these climb/ride?

The Scott I test rode last week rode well, but I could tell it was a single pivot. I noticed some brake jack on the descents as well as shock movement when climbing.

The thought of getting a 142 rear axle, 31.6 post and BSA bottom bracket (I hate PF!) keeps me coming back to this thread... I'm just not sold on the (relatively) older rear suspension design. (Sorry, don't mean to offend... just researching before purchasing).


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hokiebrett said:


> Those are exactly the gaps I was talking about when I took at look at the Scott frames last week. When I looked at a bunch of Sparks and Genius', I noticed they all had Derlin in there (sorry, didn't think to take a picture).
> 
> Maybe we could sweet talk a Scott dealer to sell the green Derlin washers/bushings and see if they fit the IP-036?
> 
> ...


Mcmaster.com sells teflon (PTFE), Delrin, or other low friction washers, if we determine what sizes (ID, OD, thickness) needed, it would be easy to order from them.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Mcmaster.com sells teflon (PTFE), Delrin, or other low friction washers, if we determine what sizes (ID, OD, thickness) needed, it would be easy to order from them.


I can take it out tomorrow and measure the size i'll post picture and the information. 
Anyway I cant use still waiting for some parts.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Here is the pictures guys.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Angel212 said:


> Here is the pictures guys.


Angel212, nice effort with posting pictures, but it appears you are not sure what to measure. In your first picture you measured a 2mm gap at the pivot joint, however, in the second picture you can see the 2.5mm spacer on the bearing. Neither really shows how much, if any, actual gap is in the joint.

As you tighten down the binding post, you should not be tightening the 2.5mm spacers against the bearing. You do not want to over tighten the pivot or crush the bearing which is why a binding post is used. Otherwise will either cause the pivot to not move freely or even worse, crack the carbon around the pivot mount. What we need to know is how much thicker the 2.5mm spacer can be without causing the binding post to over tighten and cause the pivot not to move freely.

You measure the outside diameter (OD) of the spacer at 15mm, that is a good measurement. What is the inner diameter (ID) of the spacer? Most likely it's a little more than 8mm as I think that is the size of the binding post.

You need to determine what size the new spacer should be, possibly 15mm x 8.25mm x 3mm? It's hard to say. Possibly every frame is a little different.

I would like to see the difference in hole size in the frame to the OD of the bearing. Is there movement of the bearing in the mounting hole?

After checking my frame to look a little more closely at where the gaps really are, I am finding the rear shock mount, near the seat tube, seems to have the most slop. If the slop is really on the shock mount, then I will need to think more about how to tighten things up, at least on my bike.

These are very simple pivot designs so it doesn't surprise me that there would be some slop in the links. Even my Specialized Epic had a similar amount of slop in the suspension, although I am sure not all FS bikes have as much slop. I mean, if I paid $3,000 USD for a frame, it better not have any slop in the pivots.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Whati see is the bearing go deep into the seatstay. So I think the spacer have .5mm inside the seatstay pushing the bearing on place and the other 2mm is the space we see at the chain/seat stay. I was think to get a washer 2mm wide with a ID 15mm and stick above the spacer .

What u think?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

So you are thinking you want a spacer with a 15mm+ ID x 2mm thick? I am not sure it would make any difference other than filling the gap around the existing spacer. I would not limit any lateral movement.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

hokiebrett said:


> And would some people that don't have the TwinLoc system mind posting up how these climb/ride?


Can anyone comment on riding this bike without a TwinLoc system? The 650b Genius I rode had a TwinLoc and I found myself using it, as bob was noticable. I was unable to ride a Spark. The reviews I'm reading on the Spark essentially suggest that the TwinLoc is necessary for efficient climbing.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hokiebrett said:


> Can anyone comment on riding this bike without a TwinLoc system? The 650b Genius I rode had a TwinLoc and I found myself using it, as bob was noticable. I was unable to ride a Spark. The reviews I'm reading on the Spark essentially suggest that the TwinLoc is necessary for efficient climbing.


I think efficiency of this FS bike is somewhat dependent on which shock you choose. I chose a Fox CTD BV so I would have three compression settings. Even in the Fox C (climb) mode, there is some small amount of shock compression, ~12mm of travel, which I really like. In that mode, the CTD shock still provides some small amount of compliance. I suppose C mode is the most efficient for climbing, however, T (trail) mode allows for very good pedaling efficiency while providing a smoother climb.

I ride most of the time in T (trail) mode as it give you about 75% of travel and noticeably less shock compression than in D (Decsent) mode. T mode gives you good pedaling efficiency and good bump compliance. While D mode is all out full open for flying downhill. In D-mode there is more suspension movement while pedaling though.

I do have a twin-loc system (Scott CTD Lever) on my bike and believe this is a great way to go. If I didn't have suspension lock-out, I might choose the FOX CTD that has a secondary tuning adjustment for the trail mode.

Even the Roxshox Monarch XX is a great shock if you were to choose it.

Overall I would say that shock technology has come a long way, whether you chose to add remote lockout or not, today's shocks help any bike have good pedaling efficiency.


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

So my plan was to build a carbon chiner as a replacement to my alum 29er HT.......but found a carbon hardtailed Haro FLC SLX 2 x 10 grouped bike, new, for less than half price this week, so I jumped on it. I don't have a grand in it, shipped to my door- too cheap to pass up. .....and Haro offer a lifetime warranty on their carbon frames....I was shocked. However, the stuff on my alum HT can be swapped over to a FS chiner over the winter as a project after pedalling season is done.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

omnivore said:


> However, the stuff on my alum HT can be swapped over to a FS chiner over the winter as a project after pedalling season is done.


The pedaling season is *never* done!


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

How are y'all riding the IP-036?

What I mean, is that I'm afraid I'm going to break my AnthemX 29. I ride the hell out of a 100mm XC 29er and have done everything I can to make it a lightweight trail bike... 120 fork, offset shock bushing to get the HA to 69.5*, 2.3 Spesh Purgatory front tire, etc. Hell, I'd probably be running a RS Reverb dropper if my AX29 was 31.6 instead of 30.9... I can't help myself. If I make it to the top of a nasty CO Front Range climb, I'm going to open it up on the DH. I just enjoy ripping down too much to hold back because I'm on a lightweight XC bike.

I'm also 187lbs out of the shower, well over 200 riding weight.

I'm really thinking than an IP-036 is probably too much XC/Race and not enough Aggressive XC/trail for how I push my bikes.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Have any of these companies made a frame with 110mm - 120mm of travel yet? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hokiebrett said:


> How are y'all riding the IP-036?
> 
> What I mean, is that I'm afraid I'm going to break my AnthemX 29. I ride the hell out of a 100mm XC 29er and have done everything I can to make it a lightweight trail bike... 120 fork, offset shock bushing to get the HA to 69.5*, 2.3 Spesh Purgatory front tire, etc. Hell, I'd probably be running a RS Reverb dropper if my AX29 was 31.6 instead of 30.9... I can't help myself. If I make it to the top of a nasty CO Front Range climb, I'm going to open it up on the DH. I just enjoy ripping down too much to hold back because I'm on a lightweight XC bike.
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty aggressive for a short travel XC bike. Maybe you need something with 120mm - 140mm of travel. It's difficult to have a bike that will stand up to tons of abuse, like you describe, and weigh in at a svelte 23-24 lbs, like an nicely built IP-036 does.



Le Duke said:


> Have any of these companies made a frame with 110mm - 120mm of travel yet?


If you read the specs on the IP-036, it already has 110mm of travel. More than that, IMO, then it's not a XC bike anymore. Not that long ago, XC bikes had 80mm of travel so it's obvious that the trend is toward more travel but there comes to a point of how much is enough? 4" of travel is quite a bit in my book, enough for rough XC and some decent trail riding.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> Sounds pretty aggressive for a short travel XC bike. Maybe you need something with 120mm - 140mm of travel. It's difficult to have a bike that will stand up to tons of abuse, like you describe, and weigh in at a svelte 23-24 lbs, like an nicely built IP-036 does.


Thanks for your response. I agree. Which is why I simply need to remind myself that I have an XC bike and AM bike. They can sometimes cross purposes, but I don't expect to huck my XC bike like my AM bike. I did 40 miles of riding this weekend and am aiming for more this coming weekend. I really like a light and efficient XC 29er for long rides.

Did some measuring on my bikes this AM.

My Motobecane townie (rigid 29er) has a S/O of around 31.75"
My (soon to be sold) Giant AnthemX 29 (with a 120 fork) has a S/O of around 32-32.5"

While the top tube is close to the boys, neither of these bikes are uncomfortable for me to ride.

I think a large IP-036 would fit me nicely... just waiting to hear back from Peter on the frame and some hookless carbon rims.

ProBike supply has a 2014 Fox FLOAT CTD-ADJ BOOST VALVE Kashima Factory Shock (free reducers) on sale for $405 with free bushings/reducers.

From everything I read about the IP-036 (and Scott Spark), the CTD Adj with Boost Valve is a great riding upgrade for this frame.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Yep, that's pretty much my build as well. If you read some of my other posts, the ability to lock out the suspension is something I really like. At 5'-11", I've never had an issue with stand over height, although I'd be willing to live with a close stand over height if the frame rode well overall.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Deleted... Already answered and I'm too wordy. Lol


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## PouyaA (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm not in the convo but for those people who are looking to get it cheap never go to their website. Check Alibaba.com and ask for sample (one way, usually cheapest way) second is just buy it from aliexpress.com 
Online Buy Wholesale full suspension frame from China full suspension frame Wholesalers |Aliexpress.com
Becareful using Alibaba.com 29er Full Suspension Carbon Frame-29er Full Suspension Carbon Frame Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comBicycle Frame

If you are using aliexpress.com they are like ebay full money back. However for Alibaba.com they might be scams, so to be safe if it's your first time, go to the link I have given, they are confirmed companies, I'll still recommend using paypal to pay them, or insure your payment.

If asked I will make a full guide on buying cheaper products. 

Edit: if you are going to alibaba.com to buy anything make sure you check the "Gold Supplier" and "Onsite Check" they have to be both done, usually Gold members are none scams, since they pay around $500 a month to sell.  good luck, and sorry for those who bought it at expensive prices lol.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Hey guys quick question, what kind of headset are you using. I was using the original NECO headset that came with the frame, but last few days has been making a clicking noise every time i move the handlebar. I would like to replace with Canecreek head set but i dont know what model need the bike. Is IP36 model from Peter.
Btw i just install a dropped post ks Eten, work great for only $118, at jensonusa.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

charlesrg said:


> Wheelset[
> 1,100.


is that wheelset really 1,100 grams ?


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Hi, I have noticed that there is some play, with one of the bolts that holds the rear shock, i got a flyxii frame and the bolt is a M8 x40 with internal threads, any one in here that know where to purchase these bolts, prefereble black. 

Best regards


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

Angel212 said:


> Hey guys quick question, what kind of headset are you using. I was using the original NECO headset that came with the frame, but last few days has been making a clicking noise every time i move the handlebar. I would like to replace with Canecreek head set but i dont know what model need the bike. Is IP36 model from Peter.
> Btw i just install a dropped post ks Eten, work great for only $118, at jensonusa.


You probably just need to replace the lower bearing


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## horseinthesky (Oct 28, 2013)

Could anyone pls make a photo how does IP-036 142x12 rear hanger looks like?


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## breakjnky (Jun 22, 2009)

*Frame ID 120mm*

Wondering if anyone can ID this frame. I have seen a few painted different ways. It is not the same FM036 that is everywhere. If you look at the seat tube, it is straighter than the FM036. There is a 27.5 and a 29 version that both have 120mm rear travel.

There is also another similar one with a completely straight seat tube, but it really doesn't look as good as the ones below and I have only only seen it on eBay.

There is also no front derailleur mount on the seat tube either.

The yellow one is a branded frame from a shop in Oregon. The other is branded as a Grammo. The green one has a different real triangle on it, but also labeled a Grammo.


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

I believe there are pics of that posted earlier in this thread


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just bought a DT Swiss XMM 120 OPM, Syntace FlatForce 55mm stem and Low10 Vector Carbon 740mm bar, XX1 RD and shifter, and Cane Creek headset. 

Next: IP-036 and a RS Monarch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## feltbee (Jul 31, 2008)

Is it possible to run an angleset on any of these frames? I'd love to have a 29" with a 120mm fork, 67-68 head angle, and about 110mm travel in the rear.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Probably easier (and cheaper) to just run an offset bushing or two. With the 22.2xM8, you can get 2mm offset bushings. Running 2 of those would easily drop your HTA by 1*


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## torio (Mar 18, 2008)

breakjnky said:


> Wondering if anyone can ID this frame


You are talking about ltk-088 (27.5) and ltk-098 (29) cheers


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

*My ip036 from peter*

Here's my IP036 from Peter. Used old components from my previous IP098 build. These came a little heavier at 11.8kg but I like the looks and fit of this better!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Not sure what you are asking
Your message must be for someone else


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Padyakero said:


> Here's my IP036 from Peter. Used old components from my previous IP098 build. These came a little heavier at 11.8kg but I like the looks and fit of this better!
> 
> View attachment 914855
> View attachment 914856


What big gear are you running on the cassette? Better yet, how about full specs?

I'm thinking of going from my X0 2x10 to a 1x10 with the Wolftooth 42 and 16.

When I built mine, the XX1 just came out and it was out of my price range, plus I built the bike for a ~250 mile 7-day ride across Colorado, so I wanted the gear selection. I'll never do a trip like that again so dropping the extra weight would be perfect. Going with the 42 with a 26 up front would give me the exact same coverage minus 2 top gears, which is no loss.


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

Has anyone seen or built up one of the WCB-M-098 frames. They are mostly advertised as 29er's but some are advertised as 650b although quite clearly they are the same frame. I was wondering if I built up this frame with 650b wheels and used a 200x57/56mm rear shock as apposed to using 29inch wheels with a 200x50mm rear shock would it increase the rear wheel travel a little.
Kind regards Gary


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

@hidperf,
I am using Wolftooth 42T at the rear. Did exactly as instructed to install it in my XT 11-36T cassette for a 1x10 set-up. In the front, I used XT 165mm + raceface 36T and it got me almost all gear combination I needed for hills and flats. I found out if the climb is too high for my lowest gear combo 36t front and 42T rear, I just better dismount and walk the bike I'll be even faster  On flats and when I really-really need speed, my 11T rear and 36T front is just enough for my cadence and power. Can't go more comfortable than that. I believe you won't go wrong with a 1X10 set-up 


Frame: IP036, tapered head tube, size 19, BSA 142X12
RS: Rockshox Monarch, 165mm eye-to-eye
Fork: Fox Talas, 95/120mm
Wheelset: Fulcrum Red Metal XL29 with Michellin Wild Grip'r 2.25 tubeless tires
Headset: Neco from Peter
Seatpost: Chiner Carbon
Saddle: SelleRoyal Selva Saddle
Handlebars: 780mm crankbrothers carbon
Stem: 50mm Kore
Brakeset: Avid9
Rotors: Ashima superlight rotors
Rear shifter: XT barmount (w/ gear indicator)
Crankset: XT double chainring converted to single chainring using race face 36T. surprisingly the weight of the assembly (crankset + 36T chainring without BB) came only at 620grams!
Chain: XT
Cassete: 11-36XT without 17T plus 42T wolf tooth
Rear dereileur: XT midcage
Pedals: Venzo pedals (at 400g for the pair it's lighter than most clipless!)
Grips: ODI Yeti design

Total build weight: 11.8kg


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

*WCB-M-098 suspension frame*

Has anyone seen or built up one of the WCB-M-098 frames. They are mostly advertised as 29er's but some are advertised as 650b although quite clearly they are the same frame. I was wondering if I built up this frame with 650b wheels and used a 200x57/56mm rear shock as apposed to using 29inch wheels with a 200x50mm rear shock would it increase the rear wheel travel a little.
Kind regards Gary


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

@garyalanlane,
I have built that frame but on 29er wheel and my experience is good except that I should have gone one size higher as the top tube length is short.

With your question I think indeed you can fit a 27.5 wheel on the 29er frame and the tire gap to the seat-tube will indeed increase by 1.5 inch maybe depends on your tire. but putting a rearshock that is 200x56/57 instead of what geometry recommends (200x50) I am not sure if it will still be within the upper pivots reach. you have to check carefully the geometry, maybe ask Peter for the detailed drawing so you can calculate more carefully.

I can tell you though that frame's internal cable routing is far more advanced and cleaner than the new build I have now which is IP036.

Goodluck on your project


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

Padyakero said:


> @garyalanlane,
> I have built that frame but on 29er wheel and my experience is good except that I should have gone one size higher as the top tube length is short.
> 
> With your question I think indeed you can fit a 27.5 wheel on the 29er frame and the tire gap to the seat-tube will indeed increase by 1.5 inch maybe depends on your tire. but putting a rearshock that is 200x56/57 instead of what geometry recommends (200x50) I am not sure if it will still be within the upper pivots reach. you have to check carefully the geometry, maybe ask Peter for the detailed drawing so you can calculate more carefully.
> ...


Thanks for the kind reply. I would be interested to know more about your build. What head set size do you need to accommodate a tapered steerer column folk and what type mount is the front derailleur. What is the travel in mm of the rear suspension. Would be great if you could post some pics&#8230;&#8230;.and who is this Peter to ask him for detailed drawings. Thanks again


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## lascases (Aug 15, 2014)

I posted my last post in the wrong thread, so here again:

I'm from Germany, so my English is not the best ;-) Last week I tested the Speci Stumpjumper FSR 29 and I quite liked it. I read a lot about the Chinese Carbon Frames in German and English forums the last days and I'm thinking of building my own bike. There is a lot of information and I still don't have a good overview. 
Is there any Chinese Carbon All Mountain Frame similar to the Stumpjumper with around 130 mm travel?

Thanks in advance


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

This was my previous build.















With Peter from xamiplay they call this frame IP098. In my case I used Neco headset coming from the supplier of the frame but you can use branded ones as long as it is for tapered head tube with integrated cups.

FD is direct mount and top-pull. About the rear travel, I can't exactly recall but I used recommended-sized rearshock so the fox CTD 200x50mm found it's place.

If you scroll back on this thread, you'll see lot's of post from Peter. He's been active in this thread and transacted with quite a lot from different people.


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

Thanks for the pics……..bike looks great, how did it ride?


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## Thiago7 (Jun 27, 2010)

charlesrg said:


> For the ones curious if the IP-036 is race proof.
> Started last, had to pass 34 guys, could have taken 2nd but I spent lots of time passing others and could not catch before the end.
> View attachment 902888
> View attachment 902889


Hahahah. 
I know the guy in orange.
Met him last week in Windham NY.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

torio said:


> You are talking about ltk-088 (27.5) and ltk-098 (29) cheers


I don't see the resemblance in the LTK-098 -

LTK098-29er


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## yurkiy (Jan 27, 2012)

..............


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

*Choosing 29" frame for XC bike.*



Padyakero said:


> @garyalanlane,
> I have built that frame but on 29er wheel and my experience is good except that I should have gone one size higher as the top tube length is short.
> 
> With your question I think indeed you can fit a 27.5 wheel on the 29er frame and the tire gap to the seat-tube will indeed increase by 1.5 inch maybe depends on your tire. but putting a rearshock that is 200x56/57 instead of what geometry recommends (200x50) I am not sure if it will still be within the upper pivots reach. you have to check carefully the geometry, maybe ask Peter for the detailed drawing so you can calculate more carefully.
> ...


Hi! Could you please share your knowledge and experience, since you have dealt with both frames: IP-098 and IP-036 (actually everybody are welcome if they have anything to say on the topic).

IP-098:








IP-036:








I think about ordering one of these to build an XC 29er, but haven't decided which yet (tend to IP-098). So, to systemize all the questions I'll make a list:

1) I think the first question in any case would be: in general from your experience can you justify (and why?) a purchase of one of these carbon (but still Chinese frames) over an aluminium frame from a well-known non-chinese manufacturer? Over Merida Big Ninty Nine XT-M frame for instance. There is not that much of a difference in price (considering that Merida's price include quite good rear shock). Or Cube AMS frame as another example?

2) Which of these two frames would you recommend and why? Why did you switch from your IP-098 to IP-036? I personally like the shape and appearance of IP-098 more. Plus completely internal routing makes it look neater. And the frame looks more XC (I'm interested in XC mostly) and less trial than IP-036. At the same time I clearly understand, that appearance is not the most important part.

3) What is your opinion specifically on the build quality of these frames, because, you know, it IS what usually scares people away from buying Chinese something&#8230; Overall stiffness? Bearings' quality? Play in links?

4) How do suspensions feel? They are both 'Faux bar' design, but of different geometries. How do they behave? Pedal bob? Pedal kickback? Behaviour under braking?

5) It is sort of a supplementary question, but nevertheless. There are a lot of these frames on Aliexpress and Alibaba and lots of suppliers. And almost every single offer lists different model number. Are IP-098 and IP-036 the official model numbers? Maybe anyone knows who really does produce these frames in China? Or are there many factories, that build frames using one pattern? Who is it better to deal with, when ordering a frame?

It's a wall'o'text, sorry, but I really look forward to your response and opinion of other fellow mtbrers


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Answers to your questions:

1) Yes, why do you think there are 350+ pages of discussion on the topic of Chinese carbon frames between this thread and the Chinese Carbon thread on MTBR? They are a great value.

2) I have the IP-036, it's a good frame. I don't have the IP-098, this is a newer frame. Have not seen any picture of one build yet or anyone providing feedback. You could be the first.

3) See answer (1).

4) If you have a good shock, the suspension is fine. Basically a single pivot design, works like any other single pivot suspension.

5) Those are the common model numbers on the frame. I'd recommend ordering from [email protected], he speaks good English and provides shipping information.


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

The IP098 looks like the LTK098 from LT Bikes. And I believe that LT Bike is the manufacturer.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

@Epic_Dude
Thanks for response, mate!

Actually Padyakero did build IP-098 bike. See post 1366 and pics (Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 55). 
And he did build it before his IP-036 bike. Would be nice to hear from him.

These two suspensions are tecnichally more complex, than single pivot ones. They are 4-bar suspensions. Not Horst Link, of course, but 4-bar design allows some engineering to counter forces.
Here is a useful article on the suspesion types:
Part 1: Buyer's guide to mountain bike suspension, part 1 - BikeRadar
Part 2: Buyer's guide to mountain bike suspension, part 2 - BikeRadar

I think IP-098 and IP-036 fall under the (2) 'Faux bar' design. If I'm not mistaken.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Answers to your questions:
> 
> 2) I have the IP-036, it's a good frame. I don't have the IP-098, this is a newer frame. Have not seen any picture of one build yet or anyone providing feedback. You could be the first.


But hey! To a certain extent you are right! I've just closely compared IP-098 frame and the one Padyakero used to build his IP-098 bike. They are similar, but have a bit different shape of the front triangle.

Look:















Are they different sizes of the same frame? Or newer and older revisions?


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

aizu1 said:


> The IP098 looks like the LTK098 from LT Bikes. And I believe that LT Bike is the manufacturer.


Yep, saw that. Then saw this:
Full carbon fiber 29 er suspension bike frame_深圳市迪赛体育运动器材有限公司 
DSK098... Both manufacturers? Both resellers? One manufacturer, the other reseller? God knows. Or someone else, who has't posted here yet


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> 4) If you have a good shock, the suspension is fine.


BTW could you please specify what you consider to be a 'good' shock for this frame? Will have to order one anyway, so any piece of info on this matter is great.


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## jstark (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm comparing the LTK088 and the XMIplay IP-036 as well for my first bike build. The LTK design looks a little more beefy and has better support for the lower shock mount to my untrained eye. Curious to see one built up and some thoughts on it as well.


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

Dawnkeeper said:


> But hey! To a certain extent you are right! I've just closely compared IP-098 frame and the one Padyakero used to build his IP-098 bike. They are similar, but have a bit different shape of the front triangle.
> 
> Look:
> View attachment 918624
> ...


Hi Dawnkeeper,
They are exactly the same frame, the picture you got I believe is size 17 or 19 while the one I built is size 15. Manufacturers just eliminated the small triangle on top of the seat-tube to achieve the 2 inch reduction from 17" to 15". If you take size 17 and bigger size, you'll get the frame in your picture.

Regarding your questions, here is my take:

1) Choosing a Chinese carbon over a well-known alum brand for me is purely a personal choice. On my case, I wanted to build a carbon MTB partly for the weight without busting my pocket. Anyone can build a non-carbon MTB and still achieve super lightweight bike but that would come at a high price. I was not being a cheapo by choosing the Chinese route, just being rational and with some research made a decision and never looked back.

2) The IP-098 frame I built over a year ago was excellent, it was lightweight, stiff and strong and clean-looking, it also has full internal cable routing complete with hoseguides that minor issues like cable rattle becomes thing of the past. The only reason I let it go because size 15 was too small for me sometimes my shoe would contact the front tire when pedaling, this happens when my feet goes a little off position on the pedal. If you use cleats where your shoes are always in the proper position this will not be an issue or maybe if you use shorter crank-arm perhaps 165mm. My shoe size is 43 by the way and was using 170mm crank-arm length. Also since I was using only a 1X set-up, I found the FD direct mount adding an unnecessary clutter. Other than that I don't have any complain about the frame, in my over-a-year of riding XC trails, I didn't have any single instance of doubt about it's ride quality or it's safety. I shifted to IP-036 for a bigger size and I thought I like the looks of it better. Without the FD direct mount, it's seat-tube looks cleaner than the IP098 and more suited to my 1X set-up and I was right. However, I got a little disappointed because IP-036 cable routing isn't as clean as the IP-098. in the former, both brake and gear cables comes out close to the bottom bracket and needed to be zip-tied beneath the chainstays. Again, whether it is IP-098 or IP-036 is really a personal choice. Align your purposes, make a choice and accept the trade-offs as there will always be.

3) In terms of build quality, there are some issues though not something that could make the bike dangerous to ride. One is Pivot bearings are sub-standard that most users just replace them right before starting to build. In my case I just greased them and tighten to the right torque and luckily didn't experience anymore plays or creaks in the links that other users have reported.

4) Suspension quality really depends on the brand of shock you attached. MY IP-098 was equipped with Fox CTD kashima coated, and worked perfectly, no noticeable bobs, kickbacks or unusual compressions during braking.

5) I don't know who exactly manufactures these frames but as Epic_Dude mentioned, Peter from iPlay has been a reliable supplier of these frames and made quite a lot of guys happy.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

*Details on IP-098.*



Padyakero said:


> Hi Dawnkeeper,
> Regarding your questions, here is my take:...


Hi Padyakero!
Thanks a lot! Really nice of you to provide such thorough feedback.

Well, IP-098 it will be then 

Don't you mind if I ask you some specific questions concerning IP-098 frame? Offers on aliexpress and alibaba don't provide enough info, so it would be nice to know it before ordering.

1) Fork of how much travel/length the frame is designed to be used with? (btw what is approximate rear travel?)

2) Is the frame shipped with headset cups installed and rear axle? Which type of headset is needed for this frame?

3) Rear brake rotor of which diameter the frame is designed to be used with? Are there restrictions for the diameter to be able to fit in the caliper?

4) I saw this chart and was about to ask why did you install the rear shock the way you did. Meaning back to front. 








But then I saw another chart with the layout you had...







It doesn't really matter which way to install it, does it? Did you try to install it the other way?

5) Any problems installing hydrolic brakes and pulling lines through the internal routings?

And by the way as far as offers on the Internet don't lie it is possible to choose not only the BottomBracket type, but also the type of carbon weave (3k,12k,UD) for the frame. Do you think it really matters or affects anything in anyway? Just appearance?

Thanks again.


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

@Dawnkeeper,

The frame specification from manufacturer recommended 120mm travel fork so that's what I installed. For the rearshock I also installed the recommended 200x50mm but I didn't have the chance to measure the actual rear travel. 

Headset is tapered and bearing cups are integrated. You will have to order separately the headset bearings and rear axle unless supplier gives them to you for free.

Frame is designed to take 160mm rear brake rotors. If it can take 180mm rotor or higher through an adaptor I didn't try so I can't say.

I had to install the rearshock upside down because the shock mounting on the frame specifically on the tube that links the top to the downtube would contact the rearshock head. If that tube is perfectly perpendicular to the RS it would fit perfectly but as you may notice the mounting tube runs about 45deg diagonally on the RS. I am not sure though if this issue will still be there on a larger size frame, mine was size 15 or if you use other RS brand with thinner RS head.

When you order the frame you can choose the weave type, paint finish (gloss or matte) as well as the BB type.

Goodluck on your build


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

Oh and about the carbon weave's (3k, 12k or UD) impact on frame strength, there's also a whole lot of online discussion which weave is stronger and lighter. I left it at the experts and just went for the 3k


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Padyakero said:


> Oh and about the carbon weave's (3k, 12k or UD) impact on frame strength, there's also a whole lot of online discussion which weave is stronger and lighter. I left it at the experts and just went for the 3k


Reading my mind, Padyakero!


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

BTW, installing the cables on IP-098 is a breeze. For the rear gear cable you enter from the top leftside push and viola, it exits right where you want it, just inches away from the rear dereailuer. For the rear brake, you have to uninstall the cable from the right brake lever assembly and start from the bottom, push and viola the cables exits right close to the headtube. You need to bleed it though since you uninstalled from the brake lever assembly. For the FD cable, it was difference and you need to cut the external hose since the frame routing accommodates only the inner cable.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Padyakero said:


> BTW, installing the cables on IP-098 is a breeze. For the rear gear cable you enter from the top leftside push and viola, it exits right where you want it, just inches away from the rear dereailuer. For the rear brake, you have to uninstall the cable from the right brake lever assembly and start from the bottom, push and viola the cables exits right close to the headtube. You need to bleed it though since you uninstalled from the brake lever assembly. For the FD cable, it was difference and you need to cut the external hose since the frame routing accommodates only the inner cable.


Do you mean that you can pull cables with hoses through every internal routing of the frame except the routing which leads to the FD? Does it already have a hose inside? Can't it be pulled out to pull one single hose from the shifter to the FD? Or there is no hose inside, just a straight tube of small diameter/section, which can accommodate only the cable itself?

Oh, and just to doublecheck, how many routings are there? Is there one for rear shock lockout?


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Padyakero said:


> BTW...


BTW, thanks a lot  You couldn't be more helpful!


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## Padyakero (Mar 4, 2013)

There are 4 routings in the frame (RD, rear brake, FD & RS remote lock-out) and three have hose guides, the other one for the RS remote cable I guess don't have. I couldn't be sure as I didn't use it anyway. The routing for the FD have hoseguide but it's small the external gear hose won't fit. I was on a 1X setup so didn't went to that length of trying to pull out the guide.


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## lascases (Aug 15, 2014)

https://www.abload.de/img/dsc01783ofs16.jpg
https://www.abload.de/img/allmountainznsse.jpg

Some information from LaMere of a new All Mountain Frame.
What do you think?


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## yurkiy (Jan 27, 2012)

Whery interesting! Do you have a link to seller's site?


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

lamerecycles.com. 

Nothing on their website as yet but just had an email from them today saying they are in the process of doing their first 650b build. Look forward to seeing it and how well it performs.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Lamere charges a premium for selling you a HongFu frame, if I wanted a HM356, I would just buy direct. Unless you just want a complete bike and have no desire to build the bike yourself, in that case Lamere might be a good choice.


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## garyalanlane (Aug 16, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Lamere charges a premium for selling you a HongFu frame, if I wanted a HM356, I would just buy direct. Unless you just want a complete bike and have no desire to build the bike yourself, in that case Lamere might be a good choice.


My thoughts as well but it would still be good to see their build. Wonder how they've managed to be one of the first to get the frame.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Buying directly is for sure better in terms of price. But buying from Lamere may have its benifits in terms of quality (just a suggestion): buyind frames themselves to build their bikes Lamere should be doing some additional sorting rejecting defective frames if they come across such. So, just in theory, buying from Lamere would lower a chance of getting a defective piece.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Dawnkeeper said:


> Buying directly is for sure better in terms of price. But buying from Lamere may have its benifits in terms of quality (just a suggestion): buyind frames themselves to build their bikes Lamere should be doing some additional sorting rejecting defective frames if they come across such. So, just in theory, buying from Lamere would lower a chance of getting a defective piece.


You do understand that Lamere does not buy bunches of frames ahead of time waiting for you to order a bike? When you place an order with Lamere, they then place an order with HongFu and get the frame for you. Really no different than you ordering the frame yourself, other than they offer a "Limited Lifetime Warranty." However, for the same frame you pay about 2x more, so in effect you purchase a second frame up front, then if it breaks, they will offer a warranty replacement.

As for not getting a "defective" frame, Lamere is ordering from the same seller in China that you would, so if there is a defect, they would just work with the vendor to return the frame and get another, same as you could do.

Yes, you don't need to deal with someone in China, but if you are willing to pay additional money to purchase from someone in the US, and have them build a bicycle for you, I would just go to a local bike shop. For similar costs, you would then have the support of a local shop near you to fix your bike when it breaks.

The general idea here on this forum is for people wanting to be self sufficient, build a bike themselves, save money, and even learn how to maintain and repair their bike when needed.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, sure, hard to argue.


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## lascases (Aug 15, 2014)

I just wanted to show you the newest All Mountain Frame, since there was no information on the websites so far. 
I guess, I'm not the only one, who is looking for a All Mountain Frame. Travel Front and Rear is 150 mm by the way.
So what do you think about the new frame? Geometry looks quite good to me.

Sorry for my bad English


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## tmasta346 (Aug 24, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> You do understand that Lamere does not buy bunches of frames ahead of time waiting for you to order a bike? When you place an order with Lamere, they then place an order with HongFu and get the frame for you. Really no different than you ordering the frame yourself, other than they offer a "Limited Lifetime Warranty." However, for the same frame you pay about 2x more, so in effect you purchase a second frame up front, then if it breaks, they will offer a warranty replacement.
> 
> As for not getting a "defective" frame, Lamere is ordering from the same seller in China that you would, so if there is a defect, they would just work with the vendor to return the frame and get another, same as you could do.
> 
> ...


Where can you reliably order a frame from?


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## mekis (Sep 1, 2014)

*Q-factor?*

@Padyakero

Do you remember what q-factor the crank had on your build IP-098, 156 or 168? (SRAM XX1)

Or maybe some one else know what will fit the LTK-098.



Padyakero said:


> @Dawnkeeper,
> 
> The frame specification from manufacturer recommended 120mm travel fork so that's what I installed. For the rearshock I also installed the recommended 200x50mm but I didn't have the chance to measure the actual rear travel.
> 
> ...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

tmasta346 said:


> Where can you reliably order a frame from?


If you read through this thread and the other Chinese Carbon thread here on MTBR you will find a half dozen different vendors. Personally, I would suggest contacting [email protected] if you are ready to place an order.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Anyone having creaking issues. My friend and I built up an 036 about two years ago. Now he is having creaking issues. My guess is that the bearings need servicing, but I am now living 800 miles from him so it's tough for me to diagnose. Has anyone else had a creaking issue with their 036? If so could you diagnose the problem?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

nbwallace said:


> Anyone having creaking issues. My friend and I built up an 036 about two years ago. Now he is having creaking issues. My guess is that the bearings need servicing, but I am now living 800 miles from him so it's tough for me to diagnose. Has anyone else had a creaking issue with their 036? If so could you diagnose the problem?


Had a few at first, tracked it down to the top four pivots that attaches the H shaped pivot link between the shock and the rear triangle. Tried greasing all the pivot hardware but that did not seem to help. Put a few drops of lube on each of the pivots, doing so quieted down all the creaking. For my frame, I think there was some carbon-to-carbon contact that was causing the frame to creak a bit.

Last couple rides have been very quiet too. I've asked other IP-036 owners about creaking and the few replies I received said they did not have any creaking issues.

So, after two years, has your friend disassembled the frame and serviced (cleaned & re-greased) all the pivot joints? I think this is something I would do every year or so.


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## Uraniumc (May 26, 2014)

*its done...400kms and so far so good*

Pivot points needs to be tighten to spec or it will make sounds

Dont use shocks larger than 200x50 or the frame might break when it bottoms out.. even at 200x50 the gap is quite small when compressed.

Cant use rotors higher than 160mm or the caliper will hit the frame.

I am using a 140mm fork and it is fine. I think 150mm in the front is the max...

Have to cut, bleed the hydraulic brake cable before routing which I haven't done yet..

Love the frame.. I am still tweaking it after ever ride.. seat.. air in shock/fork..


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice bike Uraniumc, when you get a chance, please post a daylight picture of both the left and right sides of the bike with the camera parallel to the bike. It would be nice to get a better idea of the proportions of the frame built up with all the components. Also, what size frame is that (17" or 19")?


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## Uraniumc (May 26, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Nice bike Uraniumc, when you get a chance, please post a daylight picture of both the left and right sides of the bike with the camera parallel to the bike. It would be nice to get a better idea of the proportions of the frame built up with all the components. Also, what size frame is that (17" or 19")?


It is a 17 inch frame DSK-098-29er, but I wouldn't recommend getting it from this seller.. some Desal sport equipment guy.. promised integrated headset and came with none... and wanted me to pay more to ship the headset..

XT groupset 3x 10..
dt swiss hubs and xr carbon shock 200x50
manitou tower pro forks 140mm

Only thing I would change is shorter handlebars.. which I can cut... I find I have to stop a lot second guessing if I was gonna make it between poles and trees.

Better bottom bracket, the shimano xt bottom bracket seems so soft.. and has a bit of resistance...

Lighter pedals... these saint pedals are heavy but can take a beating...

no more hollowtech cranks.., they are nice but rocks get in middle and makes noise...


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## yurkiy (Jan 27, 2012)

Uraniumc said:


> It is a 17 inch frame DSK-098-29er, but I wouldn't recommend getting it from this seller.. some Desal sport equipment guy.. promised integrated headset and came with none... and wanted me to pay more to ship the headset..
> 
> XT groupset 3x 10..
> dt swiss hubs and xr carbon shock 200x50
> ...


don't you think that frame is too short?


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Could someone tell me if there is a route to run a remote for the rear shock on the IP-036 frame.

Thanks


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## Uraniumc (May 26, 2014)

yurkiy said:


> don't you think that frame is too short?


no, its perfect... I am 5 feet 7, so depending on your height I guess.. I find it just right... it's more of a xc position than a dh type...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

mucky said:


> Could someone tell me if there is a route to run a remote for the rear shock on the IP-036 frame.
> 
> Thanks


Yes there is routing through the top tube for a shock, however the exit hole is really close to the shock and you end up with a pretty hard bend in the cable.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Epic_Dude said:


> Yes there is routing through the top tube for a shock, however the exit hole is really close to the shock and you end up with a pretty hard bend in the cable.


Thanks epic-dude. Do you run a remote?
So is this a deal breaker for anybody? Are there better options to the IP036 frame?
Not really interested in the 096 frame.


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## mekis (Sep 1, 2014)

@Uraniumc
Can you please measure how wide the back swing (rear triangle) are just behind the crank arms. So I can find out minimum q-factor to use of this frame.



Uraniumc said:


> It is a 17 inch frame DSK-098-29er, but I wouldn't recommend getting it from this seller.. some Desal sport equipment guy.. promised integrated headset and came with none... and wanted me to pay more to ship the headset..
> 
> XT groupset 3x 10..
> dt swiss hubs and xr carbon shock 200x50
> ...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

mucky said:


> Thanks epic-dude. Do you run a remote?
> So is this a deal breaker for anybody? Are there better options to the IP036 frame?
> Not really interested in the 096 frame.


Yes, I run a Scott Twin-Loc remote.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

mucky said:


> Thanks epic-dude. Do you run a remote?
> So is this a deal breaker for anybody? Are there better options to the IP036 frame?
> Not really interested in the 096 frame.


I've got the Monarch XX rear shock and I've had no issues with the remote, but Epic_Dude is right, it's a pretty hard bend. I think it's less of a problem with a hydraulic remote compared to a cable though.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

hidperf said:


> I've got the Monarch XX rear shock and I've had no issues with the remote, but Epic_Dude is right, it's a pretty hard bend. I think it's less of a problem with a hydraulic remote compared to a cable though.


Thanks for the info. I was looking to get the same shock


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I just received my IP-036 frame. UD Raw 17.5. Having a raw frame, looks kinda rough, but that's what they had in stock. I wanted it painted anyway, but still should have taken one that was matte clear coated. Oh well

Build quality seems ok. Weight is 2145g. Not too happy with that. Not even close to the 1950 +/- 50.
Another thing I can't figure out is why these Chinese carbon frames have messed up cable routing. I have a hard tail, and the rear shift cable goes in on the right side of the frame as well as the left shift cable goes into on the left side of the frame. Makes for a tight bend. Same on the IP-036, but it's the rear brake cable. Why can't they make it so the cables are routed on the left side of the frame when coming from the right side of the bars. And vise versa.
Also, why are there 2 cable stops for a front derailleur cable to go through the front of the chainstays?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

mucky said:


> I just received my IP-036 frame. UD Raw 17.5. Having a raw frame, looks kinda rough, but that's what they had in stock. I wanted it painted anyway, but still should have taken one that was matte clear coated. Oh well
> 
> Build quality seems ok. Weight is 2145g. Not too happy with that. Not even close to the 1950 +/- 50.
> Another thing I can't figure out is why these Chinese carbon frames have messed up cable routing. I have a hard tail, and the rear shift cable goes in on the right side of the frame as well as the left shift cable goes into on the left side of the frame. Makes for a tight bend. Same on the IP-036, but it's the rear brake cable. Why can't they make it so the cables are routed on the left side of the frame when coming from the right side of the bars. And vise versa.
> Also, why are there 2 cable stops for a front derailleur cable to go through the front of the chainstays?


Mine weighed in at 2,064, 17.5 3k gloss. Maybe they beefed up some areas since they first started making them?

As for the two holes, someone mentioned that one might be for a dropper post. I guess if you ran it all the way down the downtube, that would make sense.

As for as cable routing goes, they do go from right to left. Or at least mine does. 
Mine are this way:

Front shifter goes into the lower right side channel
Rear shock goes into the upper right side channel
Rear shifter goes into the left side channel
Rear brake goes under the downtube

Mucky, what crank setup and gear configuration are you going to run? I've got a front derailleur that I bought that didn't work with my setup because I had a bash guard on it. Brand new X0, if you're interested and it fits your needs, let me know.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

mucky said:


> Thanks for the info. I was looking to get the same shock


FYI, I haven't confirmed this yet but everything I've found in this thread indicates that this frame is a falling rate rear linkage with a 2.9 ratio. This means that you need a shock with a high tune on it, from what I can find out anyway. 
The Monarch XX only comes in medium tune and you can't buy a kit to change that. I'm in the process of trying to find a way to change mine right now, since I'm pulling the shock apart for it's first rebuild.

So you might consider an RT3 instead. If I can't adjust mine, I'll be heading to a high tune debonair RT3.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

hidperf said:


> Mine weighed in at 2,064, 17.5 3k gloss. Maybe they beefed up some areas since they first started making them?
> 
> As for the two holes, someone mentioned that one might be for a dropper post. I guess if you ran it all the way down the downtube, that would make sense.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. My frame weight is without any paint or clear.

My cable routing is definitely different. I have:
Cable in on Right side on top tube to shock
Cable in on right side exits at bottom of bottom bracket. I figured this to be FD
Cable in on left side( upper part of downtube) exits just below water bottle bosses. I figured this to be Rear Brake.
External cable routing on downtube is in the very center and I figured this to go to the RD
I ordered my frame from Peter @ xmiplay.

On the FD, I will be running a 1x10 setup. I appreciate the offer.

Edit:
Upon further research, external routing under downtube is for FD.
Brake goes in on right side and RD goes in on left side.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

hidperf said:


> FYI, I haven't confirmed this yet but everything I've found in this thread indicates that this frame is a falling rate rear linkage with a 2.9 ratio. This means that you need a shock with a high tune on it, from what I can find out anyway.
> The Monarch XX only comes in medium tune and you can't buy a kit to change that. I'm in the process of trying to find a way to change mine right now, since I'm pulling the shock apart for it's first rebuild.
> 
> So you might consider an RT3 instead. If I can't adjust mine, I'll be heading to a high tune debonair RT3.


 I have an RT3, but I think it's a Medium tune.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

My IP-036:

Front Derailleur - Routes externally on the underside of the down tube (I have a 1x11 setup so it's not used on my build).

Rear Derailleur - Left entry behind the head tube - exits ahead of the bottom bracket on the underside of the down tube then routes across to the right side chainstay.

Rear Brake Line - Right entry behind the head tube - exits ahead of the crank and routes under the left side chain stay to the brake caliper. This is the only cable that doesn't cross over to the opposite side before it enters into the frame.

Shock remote lever mounted on the left side of the bar - right side entry behind the head tube - exits on the underside of the top tube ahead of the shock mount.

Overall, I have no problems at all with the cable routing.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Epic_Dude said:


> My IP-036:
> 
> Front Derailleur - Routes externally on the underside of the down tube (I have a 1x11 setup so it's not used on my build).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. 
I checked all the bearings, and all needed grease. I get that the frame is inexpensive, but no grease in the bearings!

Thanks for the input everyone. I will post pics and build specs when done. I'm still trying to find some matte clearcoat.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

mucky said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I checked all the bearings, and all needed grease. I get that the frame is inexpensive, but no grease in the bearings!


Yep, pull the pivots apart, apply a good grease like Park Tools Polylube, reassemble the pivots and torque to spec. Should be the first thing everyone does after unpacking their frame.


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Can anyone help me get a hold of the rear derailreur hanger used on the flyxii fr 210 frame, same as the one mentioned and shown with picture on page 11 in this thread. I have searched both ebay and the flyxii homepage, but i can not find it. TY


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## Bishop007 (Apr 9, 2014)

Ok I think i maybe found the correct one, anyone agree Alloy montain bike bicycle mtb 29er frame Rear Derailleur hanger 2 pcs-in Bicycle Derailleur from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

*IP-098 rear shock*



Padyakero said:


> ... For the rearshock I also installed the recommended 200x50mm ...


Hi everyone, waiting for my IP-098 frame and in the meantime browsing for the rear shock. I have RS RT3 (but shorter one) on my other bike and it is just great. So I was thinking about ordering another RT3 for my IP-098. But I have recently came across this shock - RS Monarch Plus RC3 Debon Air. 
So now I'm wondering if I should consider buying it instead... I'm riding XC mainly. Will I have better suspension perfornance with +RC3 or I will do just fine with RT3 on this frame?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

If you are looking for a shock that is more downhill or big hit oriented, looks like the RC3 would be a good choice since I believe the IP-098 has a lot more travel than my IP-036. 

For XC like my IP-036, the Rockshox Monarch XX with remote lockout or the Fox CTD BV would be my top picks.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

Are there any option for pivot bolts? Maybe a different color


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I went to install my new fork, and I have the same issue with my iplay headset as mention earlier in this thread. At 2Nm it is basically locked up. I received no spacers, but had to .25mm spares. Using both did not help. The problem is the rubber ring at the bottom of the piece that covers the bearings. ( not sure what it's called). I emailed Peter 2 days ago(Monday) and have heard nothing back. I hope this is not a sign of their customer service. They are great when trying to buy a frame, but not so good(yet) after the purchase.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Hmm, the two frames I got from Peter IP-057 and IP-036, I got this headset with them.

NECO headset - Tapered 1-1/8'' x 1-1/2 - color black

Both have been perfect so far
Not sure what the Iplay headset is?


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Bishop007 said:


> Can anyone help me get a hold of the rear derailreur hanger used on the flyxii fr 210 frame, same as the one mentioned and shown with picture on page 11 in this thread. I have searched both ebay and the flyxii homepage, but i can not find it. TY


Just ordered 4 of these after my last crashed left me with no spares.

FLX-RD-002 - FLYXII is what you need. 
Arrived in 10 days.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

mucky said:


> I went to install my new fork, and I have the same issue with my iplay headset as mention earlier in this thread. At 2Nm it is basically locked up. I received no spacers, but had to .25mm spares. Using both did not help. The problem is the rubber ring at the bottom of the piece that covers the bearings. ( not sure what it's called). I emailed Peter 2 days ago(Monday) and have heard nothing back. I hope this is not a sign of their customer service. They are great when trying to buy a frame, but not so good(yet) after the purchase.


I don't know how close this frame is to my Flyxii frame, but my NECO headset worked perfect. I had to replace it though I picked up some bearings from RWC and I ran into the same problem you did. I ended up using the thin shims under the dust cap instead of one on top and one under. 
It sounds like you need more than that though. What about just buying a pack of them? Universal Cycles -- Cane Creek Integrated Headset Shims


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

El34 said:


> Hmm, the two frames I got from Peter IP-057 and IP-036, I got this headset with them.
> 
> NECO headset - Tapered 1-1/8'' x 1-1/2 - color black
> 
> ...


I have a NECO headset on my HT 29er. Works great. I really just need a new dust cap, that's what the problem is. I found a pack of spacers, but just ordered a new Ritchey headset for $20. I would still like to hear from Peter and try and get my money for the headset back.
Here is a pic of the cap with the rubber kind of seal. It's more like a flexible plastic, and this is what binds when tightened down


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

mucky said:


> I have a NECO headset on my HT 29er. Works great. I really just need a new dust cap, that's what the problem is. I found a pack of spacers, but just ordered a new Ritchey headset for $20. I would still like to hear from Peter and try and get my money for the headset back.
> Here is a pic of the cap with the rubber kind of seal. It's more like a flexible plastic, and this is what binds when tightened down
> 
> View attachment 928218


If I remember correctly, there is little tiny steel spacer/shim that goes under that. 1 1/8 I.D.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

mucky said:


> I have a NECO headset on my HT 29er. Works great. I really just need a new dust cap, that's what the problem is. I found a pack of spacers, but just ordered a new Ritchey headset for $20. I would still like to hear from Peter and try and get my money for the headset back.
> Here is a pic of the cap with the rubber kind of seal. It's more like a flexible plastic, and this is what binds when tightened down
> 
> View attachment 928218


Hmm..mine is completely different than that. I wonder if iPlay replaced the NECO one with their own?


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## robert.mil (Sep 22, 2014)

There is the Chinese National Holiday from Oct 1 to Oct 4. Anyway I have bad experience with iplay. Promises, lies, ... but elsewhere it is not better... still China and you have to be prepared for their style.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

robert.mil said:


> There is the Chinese National Holiday from Oct 1 to Oct 4. Anyway I have bad experience with iplay. Promises, lies, ... but elsewhere it is not better... still China and you have to be prepared for their style.


Those damn national holidays always manage to screw up my purchase plans.

I have to disagree with you 100% on your statement about Chinese suppliers. Although I haven't had any experience with iplay, I've made dozens of purchases from several Chinese suppliers and every one of them has been just as good or better than some US based companies I've dealt with.

I will say that every time I hear iplay mentioned, it's always negative. That's one of the reason I've avoided them.

I purchase most of my carbon items from Flyxii and I normally get a reply email within 24 hours and all of my orders have been shipped promptly, arrived in less than two weeks, and I've always gotten the correct parts.

I've had the same luck with Chinese eBay sellers. I've probably purchased six stems for various bikes in the last year, just bought Ashima rotors, and other misc items and every item has arrived in less time that I expected.


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## andyfloyd (Apr 22, 2011)

here is what my Necco headset looks like installed. I had zero issues with it, no binding whatsoever.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Pretty much what both of my Necco headsets look like on each of my Chinese carbon 29ers.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

hidperf said:


> Those damn national holidays always manage to screw up my purchase plans.
> 
> I have to disagree with you 100% on your statement about Chinese suppliers. Although I haven't had any experience with iplay, I've made dozens of purchases from several Chinese suppliers and every one of them has been just as good or better than some US based companies I've dealt with.
> 
> ...


I've been following this thread along since it started. You can search up any of the suppliers and find bad reviews. Based on purely what I have read here and elsewhere, the sellers all seem the same. A smooth transaction is a regular experience for most, but the trouble starts when there is a warranty claim or incorrect goods are shipped. Then there is the universal response seeing if they can make you give up and go away. There are payment options like paypal and alibaba that may give some piece of mind, but they all seem capable of some shameless behaviour and despite some praise for certain sellers that borders on true devotion or shilling, you'll still find accounts of people having trouble when it comes to warranty. It seems certain that if you have a genuine claim you will always have to fight hard for it regardless of where you bought it.

I'd like to think I'd give this frame a go when the time comes because it still has a threaded BB and is much cheaper than a Santa Cruz, but the frame rate is quite alarming. Twice in this thread I have asked clearly if anyone has a set and forget rear shock, where they do not alter the rear shock in any way during the course of a ride, leaving it wide open for climbing and descending. Both times I received replies, but none addressed the question what so ever. People have rear shocks they are happy with, but none seem to be truly set and forget, offering good pedaling efficiency on the climbs. At this stage I'm thinking that the smallest air volume I can find and using needle rollers in the rear shock would be the best option, but finding air volumes for shocks isn't easy.

My strongest inclination at this point is to buy the frame from Yoeleo bike and put as much oil in the can as I can fit regardless of what it ends up being.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

MagicCarpet said:


> I've been following this thread along since it started. You can search up any of the suppliers and find bad reviews. Based on purely what I have read here and elsewhere, the sellers all seem the same. A smooth transaction is a regular experience for most, but the trouble starts when there is a warranty claim or incorrect goods are shipped. Then there is the universal response seeing if they can make you give up and go away. There are payment options like paypal and alibaba that may give some piece of mind, but they all seem capable of some shameless behaviour and despite some praise for certain sellers that borders on true devotion or shilling, you'll still find accounts of people having trouble when it comes to warranty. It seems certain that if you have a genuine claim you will always have to fight hard for it regardless of where you bought it.
> 
> I'd like to think I'd give this frame a go when the time comes because it still has a threaded BB and is much cheaper than a Santa Cruz, but the frame rate is quite alarming. Twice in this thread I have asked clearly if anyone has a set and forget rear shock, where they do not alter the rear shock in any way during the course of a ride, leaving it wide open for climbing and descending. Both times I received replies, but none addressed the question what so ever. People have rear shocks they are happy with, but none seem to be truly set and forget, offering good pedaling efficiency on the climbs. At this stage I'm thinking that the smallest air volume I can find and using needle rollers in the rear shock would be the best option, but finding air volumes for shocks isn't easy.
> 
> My strongest inclination at this point is to buy the frame from Yoeleo bike and put as much oil in the can as I can fit regardless of what it ends up being.


Dude, based on the above reply, I would not recommend you purchase a Chiner FS frame. You have unrealistically high expectations for a frame and the seller. If you have even the slightest issue with the sale or the product you will be posting ad nauseam about how the seller wasn't responsive or the frame didn't meet with your approval.

As for warranty claims, clearly you don't read the posts about the big name brands denying warranty claims. When I made my first purchase from Iplay, I had an issue with one of the items they sent me, I contacted them, sent them a few pictures, and had a refund on the item within a few days.

If you do make a purchase, you need to be realistic about what you are getting. It's a Chinese made frame, it's not going to be the same as a $2,500 FS carbon frame made by Trek or Specialized or Santa Cruz. It may take more than a week to arrive, the paint won't be as nice, it will be a little rough in places, you will need to make an adjustment here or there, it may even be missing a part, or heaven forbid have a scratch on it. You may need to ask the seller a question and he/she may not respond right away.

A Chiner frame is not for someone who wants perfection, or a high level of customer service. It just doesn't happen at these price points.

As for your shock question, I believe I posted a reply to you which included a long explanation of how the ability to adjust the shock is a feature, not a bother. If you want a shock that never needs to be tweaked and works flawlessly and is 100% efficient in every riding situation, it's not been invented yet (although they are getting close).

My post might seem abrasive but that is the reality of an open forum. People come here for knowledge, experience, and advice. However, what they end up getting is a lot of opinion and uninformed bias against the direct sellers and their products.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi, guys! Would like to hear an advice...
Have just received RS RT3 shock for my IP-098 frame, but got a DebonAir version instead of a standard RT3 I ordered. Should I be happy or should I replace it with a standard one? Not planning to do DH, mainly XC, a bit of trail. Isn't DebonAir too soft and sensitive for that purpose (got M/M-S-320 tune), won't it have more bob than nonDebonAir version?
BTW, does anybody know what is the rear travel for IP-098 frme?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

*Winterized*

Just showing how I cope with the UK winter filth!! I'm semi-committed to riding throughout winter.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Keeps the mud off you :thumbsup:.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Dawnkeeper said:


> Hi, guys! Would like to hear an advice...
> Have just received RS RT3 shock for my IP-098 frame, but got a DebonAir version instead of a standard RT3 I ordered. Should I be happy or should I replace it with a standard one? Not planning to do DH, mainly XC, a bit of trail. Isn't DebonAir too soft and sensitive for that purpose (got M/M-S-320 tune), won't it have more bob than nonDebonAir version?
> BTW, does anybody know what is the rear travel for IP-098 frme?


Rear travel is stated as 110-120mm on their site. It also states a 165mm shock.

One thing you might consider on shock specs is the tune. Somewhere in the beginning of this thread, someone used the Linkage software and figured out that this frame needs a High-tune shock. I downloaded the Linkage trial version and it indeed does have a FS Chinese Carbon frame in there, but it's a 26" and not the 29er. That 26" frame was a high-tune shock as well, so I'm inclined to go with that.

If it were me, I'd stick with the DebonAir and put a high tune in it. I was actually considering selling my XX rear shock and replacing it with an RT3 DebonAir High-tune but I'm going to see if I can custom tune my XX first.


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## josh930 (Oct 22, 2014)

Speaking of headsets, will this one do for the IP-036?

FSA Orbit C-40-ACB 1.5 Headset (No.42-ACB)
FSA Orbit C-40-ACB 1.5 Headset (No.42-ACB) | Chain Reaction Cycles

Or do you have a recommendation for one besides the Neico one. Peter said they stopped putting headsets on due to complaints. Thanks in advance....


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## Nikodemuzz (Oct 3, 2014)

Hi guys, first post here. 

The all mountain frame that was mentioned a couple of pages ago can be found on the Hongfu page also:

2015 full carbon All mountain Frame

Any more detailed information available yet, about travel, weight etc? Probably a dumb question but is that the front derailleur mount on the lower seat tube? I wonder if it would be possible to get a frame entirely without that... I will ask for that possibility before placing an order, but it will be a couple more months still. Anyway, I'm excited about this new offering. I was considering one of the frames that have been discussed here but was really hoping for a bit more travel and a slightly burlier frame. This could be it.


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## tomz (May 4, 2011)

Has anyone experienced bearing play in his Dual suspension? I have some in my frame which I ride since February. It is noticable if I lift the saddle or if I push the rear wheel from one side to the other. But is hard to determine which of the bearing ist the one or if the all have some play.
All bolts ar tightened.
Thomas


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

tomz said:


> Has anyone experienced bearing play in his Dual suspension? . It is noticable if I lift the saddle or if I push the rear wheel from one side to the other. But is hard to determine which of the bearing ist the one or if the all have some play.
> All bolts ar tightened.
> 
> Thomas


Hi Tomz,

I have some play in the frame which ,as you describe, happens only when you are off the bike and lift the rear end by the saddle. There is a noticeable but small amount of give when this is done. Fortunately, this play does not affect the ride in my opinion as when your on the bike everything is under compression and should not matter. I think this may be more to do with the size of holes drilled into the frame possibly for the shock bolts or maybe the main swing arm bolt.
As suggested early in this thread, I tried curing this movement by upgrading the shock eye bearings at the rear of the unit. This has not worked and i won't try curing it again! After racing a season this movement has not got worse.
As for wheel play side to side, if I grab the wheel and push back and forth I would get a little movement in the form of silent flex in maybe wheel and frame ,but this is to be expected with so many linkages. This would be a problem if riding the bike i noticed fishtailing, a classic sign of worn bearings, where your rear end feels like its waving around behind you.Really, this frame has performed as well as my previous mtb a Giant NRS.

Also with this frame the main pivot bolt may arrive a little dry and you get horrible creaking after a while, so its worth dismantling and greasing all bolts.


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## tomz (May 4, 2011)

Thanks, fishtailing is a good description what I experienced during a 5 day stage race here in Germany. After inspecting all Bolts I found out that retightening the shock bolt minimized the play. Still think the shock or Main bore is a bit too wide. What kind of upgrade did you try with the shock eye bearing?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

I got a needle bearing kit from RWC racing, which on the face of it is a nice upgrade to the bushings which come with my shock, should be smoother action. you only need the kit for the rear eyelet mounting of the shock, as I believe the suspension motion involves the linkage moving around only this eyelet during compression.


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## C-kaae (Sep 21, 2014)

Nikodemuzz said:


> Hi guys, first post here.
> 
> The all mountain frame that was mentioned a couple of pages ago can be found on the Hongfu page also:
> 
> ...


hi, i dont know much about it, it is supposed to be avaiable from December - by Ican Bike, for around 700 USD









its suspension travel will be 150-160 mm


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## jeremy524 (Jul 17, 2010)

So, I have been looking at these bikes for a while. I now ride a One9RDO and at 42 it is playing a bit of havoc on my bones... However, the biggest reason is we have some incredible trails in TN that are just too tough to ride on with this bike. I borrowed a friend's Team Scalpel and it opened up an entire new world. I am now hooked and am hoping the FM036 will yield a similar experience. Here is the build I am proposing. I will be robbing most of the parts off my One9RDO:

I have a couple questions first. What frame do I order to go with my Next SL crankset? It is a threaded BB that I use on my Niner EBBII. I don't think the British threaded will work, so do I order the BB30 and get an adapter? If so, what adapter do I use? 

The fork and shock issue are a real problem as I do not know what to get. I have always had Rockshox, but never could get them dialed in. My last fork was the Reba dual air XX and I like rigid better than it. I considered getting the lock out version, but think it may be better to leave things open unless climbing a smooth gravel road for a mile or so. Are there inherent qualities of each that lend to riding style/terrain or can each be set up to match the rider/terrain? 

FM098 in UD matt finish, 142X12, tapered head tube
I plan to install shock bearings and replace the frame brgs from the start.
Shock-still deciding leaning towards the Sid RCT3
Fork- still deciding leaning towards the Monarch RT3 (need to figure out the tune everyone refers to, i.e. mid tune etc)
Next SL crankset- hopefully I can use it
XTR Brakes w/160 Icetech rotors
i9 torch wheels 24 hole
Niner RDO bars, seatpost
Ergon grips
XTR trail pedals
I now use a 90MM stem, but am thinking of trying a 70mm with this frame. 
I also now run IKONs and will probably use them until they wear out and then try Mountain Kings

I apologize for the long post, but I want to get it right the first time is possible. Thank you for the help.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Lots of questions jeremy524, I will try to help out a bit here.

1) Frame, if you want FS, I can highly recommend the IP-036 (same as the FM036) but sold by Xmiplay.com. Contact Peter, he did a great job with my orders and many others.

2) If your BB is threaded, a BSA (threaded) BB should match up for you. Check the specs of your frame, you may need to do a little research or call Niner customer service to confirm.

3) Fork - I'd do either a Rockshox SID XX or a Fox CTD. Either way I'd go with a lock out version with 100-120mm of travel. With the Fox, the standard tune is fine.

4) Rear shock - Again, either the Rockshox Monarch is a good choice, I went with the FOX CTD Boost Valve Remote since I got a good deal on my Fox Fork.

5) I highly recommend getting both the fork and shock from the same manufacturer and getting a twin lock lever that will lock out both the shock and the fork at the same time with one push. I went with the Fox CTD system since it gives you that 50% trail position that I use most of the time.

6) As for tires, you might be able to do better than Continental Mountain Kings, they are a good choice but currently I'm liking the GEAX Suguaro tires a bit more.


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## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

Just unboxed a new Titan frame. Had to wait approx 3 months for it but I knew that at the time of ordering.
It looks fantastic quality 1st class, well packaged. Being my second china frame I've confirmed to myself you get what you pay for even from china.
Cant wait to get it built, everything from my cheap frame that broke will transfer but need to buy a rear shock.


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

NICE! :thumbsup:
This frame looks quite different than the one on their homepage.
Can you give us some data about this frame?

Weight?
Travel?
Shock length?
Drawing?

Thanks a lot...



jbchybridrider said:


> Just unboxed a new Titan frame. Had to wait approx 3 months for it but I knew that at the time of ordering.
> It looks fantastic quality 1st class, well packaged. Being my second china frame I've confirmed to myself you get what you pay for even from china.
> Cant wait to get it built, everything from my cheap frame that broke will transfer but need to buy a rear shock.


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## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

There are differences,

Down tube brake hose is internal
Hose and cable run on top of the stays
Top tube cables exit under the top tube
Shock linkage is completely redesigned 
Both dropouts are removable so it can convert to thru axle 
Weight is up to 1990g
No chain stay protector

I am assuming at the moment it still takes a 165mm 100mm travel shock, there was no info provided on that.
A nice thing is the cable entry exits are beautifully made unlike my old frame.


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanx a lot! :thumbsup:

Please keep us updated when building up this monster!



jbchybridrider said:


> There are differences,
> 
> Down tube brake hose is internal
> Hose and cable run on top of the stays
> ...


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I'd thought about one of these frames for a while, and lurked on this thread since last spring. But I'm an avid climber and realize that about 75% of the dual suspension bikes I have demo'd don't perform uphill the way I would like (and it's more than just a lock out issue). So I've been hesitant to buy something I cannot ride first, even though the savings looked pretty good, particularly early in the season when the price spread was like 3-4x between one of these and the name brand frames I'd ridden.

As I've procrastinated, the prices for name brand dual suspension carbon frames that I've ridden and like have really dropped, I mean really dropped. As I read posters here saying expect rough edges on the Chinese frames, don't complain about this or that, I realize that a now discounted name brand 2014 frame is probably in the cards for me. 

While we are still talking about 2x the price, I'll get a very good shock included and tuned (Fox CTD kashmina), a rear maxle set up, a head set and what I might term a "premium" fit and finish (the suspension linkages and hardware to name just one item). When I add up the extras I would get and minus out the "rough edges" I'm now pretty certain I'll give a pass on the Chinese route. Worth considering if throwing a few hundred more dollars at the frame isn't going to break your bank. There seems to be a decent "oversupply" of name brand carbon frames this year, and if you hunt around you can find many high quality frames (w/shocks) around $2k, and if you look hard there are even some good ones in the $1-1.4k range.


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

Can you give examples?


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## andyfloyd (Apr 22, 2011)

backinmysaddle said:


> I'd thought about one of these frames for a while, and lurked on this thread since last spring. But I'm an avid climber and realize that about 75% of the dual suspension bikes I have demo'd don't perform uphill the way I would like (and it's more than just a lock out issue). So I've been hesitant to buy something I cannot ride first, even though the savings looked pretty good, particularly early in the season when the price spread was like 3-4x between one of these and the name brand frames I'd ridden.
> 
> As I've procrastinated, the prices for name brand dual suspension carbon frames that I've ridden and like have really dropped, I mean really dropped. As I read posters here saying expect rough edges on the Chinese frames, don't complain about this or that, I realize that a now discounted name brand 2014 frame is probably in the cards for me.
> 
> While we are still talking about 2x the price, I'll get a very good shock included and tuned (Fox CTD kashmina), a rear maxle set up, a head set and what I might term a "premium" fit and finish (the suspension linkages and hardware to name just one item). When I add up the extras I would get and minus out the "rough edges" I'm now pretty certain I'll give a pass on the Chinese route. Worth considering if throwing a few hundred more dollars at the frame isn't going to break your bank. There seems to be a decent "oversupply" of name brand carbon frames this year, and if you hunt around you can find many high quality frames (w/shocks) around $2k, and if you look hard there are even some good ones in the $1-1.4k range.


I dont have a Full Suspension Chiner but I have a hardtail and to be honest the fit and finish are excellent, not one issue with the frame after one season of riding it. I think the weakest link on the full suspension frames are the pivot bearings and a lot of people replaced them and have reported no issues.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I am finally getting my bike put together. One issue I have, and I had the same issue with my hardtail, is the rear brake mounts. They are not square/level/flat. I run Hope brakes, and they have no conical washers like Avid, so the y don't mount properly. It is a major PITA. I have to file the mount and try to get them flat. This is one drawback of the mounts inside the seatstay. Otherwise I have had no issues.


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## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

MagicCarpet said:


> Can you give examples?


See here for one:
http://forums.mtbr.com/where-best-deals/niner-rip-9-rdo-frame-rock-shox-pike-fork-938115.html


----------



## ChanceG (Nov 17, 2014)

Can someone answer this question for me, this will be my first build and need some clearification. If I order the 036 frame with BB30, will a crankset with a Q factor of 156 work in this configuration?


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## n1x0n (May 23, 2012)

Has anyone build new Titan 29er 2015 model and have any input. Looking for my first xc fs build. Sizes says 17/19 but geometry chart 17/18.5/20 ? How accurate is geo chart.

2015 New Design Mtb29er Full Suspension Frame,Full Suspension Carbon 29er Frame - Buy 29er Full Suspension Carbon Frame,Mtb Carbon Frame 29er,Full Suspension Carbon Frame Product on Alibaba.com

Rgs


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

I've had my Flyxii FLX-FR-210 frame for almost 2 years now and I've had very little problems with it. None that I didn't expect at least. 

One of the things I was unsure of was my rear shock choice. I went with the Monarch XX because I wanted the ability to fully lock the rear on climbs, and the remote function sealed the deal for me. But after gathering parts and building the bike, I started looking at tuning the rear shock and realized that I can't tune the XX. 

Way back at the beginning of this thread, someone posted that they figured out this frame was a falling rate frame with a 2.9+ leverage ratio but I've only seen that info posted once and can't confirm it. I did download the Linkage software and someone was nice enough to load a 26" version of my frame into there, and it did end up being a 2.9 LR falling rate, so I'm going by these two sources. 

So what does all of this rambling mean? Do I have a point here? Yes I do. 

I just picked up a Monarch RT3 and I'm looking to retune it for this frame. But I don't know where to begin, so I was hoping someone here might have done this already and can give me a good starting point. I was just going to order a H/H but then I discovered all of these little extras that I didn't know about. 
Should I make the rebound and compression the same? 
What about threshold?
I see listings like these HM S 320
I get that H is high rebound, M is medium compression, S is soft threshold but what does the 320 stand for? 

Also, for those of you that follow my blog, I'm stuck on day 5 or our trip because it was a HUGE day and I just haven't finished writing it yet.


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## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

n1x0n said:


> Has anyone build new Titan 29er 2015 model and have any input. Looking for my first xc fs build. Sizes says 17/19 but geometry chart 17/18.5/20 ? How accurate is geo chart.
> 
> 2015 New Design Mtb29er Full Suspension Frame,Full Suspension Carbon 29er Frame - Buy 29er Full Suspension Carbon Frame,Mtb Carbon Frame 29er,Full Suspension Carbon Frame Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> Rgs


I'm building a 17 but haven't finished yet.

The redesigned Titan has just officially hit the market, I think Alibaba is giving old info. why not buy direct from Carbonal ? they only have geo in 17 and 19 frames with up to date info.

Titan 29er MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


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## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

mucky said:


> I am finally getting my bike put together. One issue I have, and I had the same issue with my hardtail, is the rear brake mounts. They are not square/level/flat. I run Hope brakes, and they have no conical washers like Avid, so the y don't mount properly. It is a major PITA. I have to file the mount and try to get them flat. This is one drawback of the mounts inside the seatstay. Otherwise I have had no issues.


I had the same issue, very minimal filing needed more like removing the paint around the holes but care still needs to be taken doing it.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

hidperf said:


> I just picked up a Monarch RT3 and I'm looking to retune it for this frame. But I don't know where to begin, so I was hoping someone here might have done this already and can give me a good starting point. I was just going to order a H/H but then I discovered all of these little extras that I didn't know about.
> Should I make the rebound and compression the same?
> What about threshold?
> I see listings like these HM S 320
> I get that H is high rebound, M is medium compression, S is soft threshold but what does the 320 stand for?


I've been riding my FLX-FR-210 for about 1.5 years now, and I'm very happy with the frame as well. I've been using a second hand Manitou S-Type SPV and did some shim stack tuning to get it right.
I recently bought a Rockshox Monarch RT3 (M/M tune) out of curiousity, and I noticed that I almost had to turn the rebound damping to fully closed not to be launched out of deep-stroke events, like a g-out. I was also using a lot of travel all the time, so the compression tune can be increased as well.
So I also ordered a H/H tune, with oil and an IFP adapter, and did the retuning a few days ago. I will test it later this day, and find out if the ride quality has improved,


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

Need some help getting this design (from VIK61) on the Ip-036. Anyone have ideas? Already asked Vik but no response.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I've been riding my FLX-FR-210 for about 1.5 years now, and I'm very happy with the frame as well. I've been using a second hand Manitou S-Type SPV and did some shim stack tuning to get it right.
> I recently bought a Rockshox Monarch RT3 (M/M tune) out of curiousity, and I noticed that I almost had to turn the rebound damping to fully closed not to be launched out of deep-stroke events, like a g-out. I was also using a lot of travel all the time, so the compression tune can be increased as well.
> So I also ordered a H/H tune, with oil and an IFP adapter, and did the retuning a few days ago. I will test it later this day, and find out if the ride quality has improved,


Mine just arrived. I'll be waiting anxiously to hear what your results were. 
Just out of curiosity, how much do you weigh? I'm about 180 without gear, which varies depending on the ride.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

hidperf said:


> Mine just arrived. I'll be waiting anxiously to hear what your results were.
> Just out of curiosity, how much do you weigh? I'm about 180 without gear, which varies depending on the ride.


I hade a nice testride, and I could feel the rear suspension being less busy... in a good way. Rebound is now set about halfway, while pressure is about 180psi. I weigh 200lbs.


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

two-one said:


> I hade a nice testride, and I could feel the rear suspension being less busy... in a good way. Rebound is now set about halfway, while pressure is about 180psi. I weigh 200lbs.


thanks for the update!

Do you happen to have a link to the kit you ordered? I've found them on ebay but I still haven't been able to decipher what everything means in the code.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

hidperf said:


> thanks for the update!
> 
> Do you happen to have a link to the kit you ordered? I've found them on ebay but I still haven't been able to decipher what everything means in the code.


I ordered the "Tune Assembly 2013 Monarch RT3 HH F 320 (high rebound, high compression, firm threshold)" with code 11.4118.012.022.
The bag held a piston+shims and a poppet, but no spring/washers for that poppet, so I wonder they were lost during shipping, or whether I was supposed to re-use the original spring.

I'm still unclear what they mean with "threshold", but I think it means the amount of preload on the shimstack... so the thickness of the ring shim on the compression stack. It could also be the stiffness of the poppet spring, or the stiffness of the LS-shimstack that is behind the poppet. It's a complicated but awesome design!


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Today my FM036 turned 10 000km!


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## Ta87 (Sep 16, 2014)

Holy ****! That's awesome! I'm saving my pennies to try and build me one of these carbon FS 29ers.


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## mr.singletrack (Aug 9, 2006)

Does anyone have experience with the Velobuild VB-M-093?

VB-M-093 Carbon Fiber Full Suspension Mountain Bike Frame MTB - VeloBuild

Or should I take no chances and go for a FM036 or Titan dual suspension 29er?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

No experience with that frame around here, however, it is a good looking frame. I don't see it listed at the usual Chiner Vendors. Do you know if the frame is a 29er or 27.5? Not much specs in the description. What is the rear travel?

Looks very much like a Specialized Enduro.


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## Xandr (Apr 1, 2014)

it's 29er frame, looks the same to spesh Enduro but different, it sells at aliexpress
Aliexpress.com : Buy 2014 the newest design chinese carbon mountain bike MTB frame carbon frameset with free shipping and shocking price carbon frame from Reliable frame carbon road bike suppliers on Dashine bike

Geo


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## Ene (May 8, 2014)

Waiting for my Ip-036 and have some questions.

The shock is 165x38?

What size on the bushings? 22,2x8?

Thanks


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

El34 said:


> Thanks
> I was thinking of starting a new thread outside of this one because it is buried pretty deep in this thread and these bearing kits may be of interest to all dual sus. riders.
> 
> My IP-036 measured 22.2mm between the frame mounts.
> Just curious what other have measured and if it is consistent


Mine measured 22.2mm and 22.7mm (side closest to the seat post) for the RWC bearings. 2 x 22.2mm with 1 shim for 8mm bolt.

Yes they are 8mm bolts.

yes shock is 165x38 or 6.5x1.5


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## Ene (May 8, 2014)

jimbo15471 said:


> Mine measured 22.2mm and 22.7mm (side closest to the seat post) for the RWC bearings. 2 x 22.2mm with 1 shim for 8mm bolt.
> 
> Yes they are 8mm bolts.
> 
> yes shock is 165x38 or 6.5x1.5


Thanks jimbo!


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm reeeeeally close to pulling the trigger on buying a Titan 29er NL 1950gram frame but carbonal contacted me saying they are out of stock size 17" BSA frames. I was offered a Titan 29er 1700 gram SL (super light frame) when they get back in stock in about a month. My question is...1700grams?! That's crazy light is this a XC type frame? I'm looking for a trail oriented frame. That can be ridden hard, not jumping 10 feet at 40 mph hard but...couple of foot drops etc from time to time. Is 1700 grams way too light for trail riding? Any opinions? Here's the geometry for the 1950 gram version, the SL is the same just lighter.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

mtbone said:


> I'm reeeeeally close to pulling the trigger on buying a Titan 29er NL 1950gram frame but carbonal contacted me saying they are out of stock size 17" BSA frames. I was offered a Titan 29er 1700 gram SL (super light frame) when they get back in stock in about a month. My question is...1700grams?! That's crazy light is this a XC type frame? I'm looking for a trail oriented frame. That can be ridden hard, not jumping 10 feet at 40 mph hard but...couple of foot drops etc from time to time. Is 1700 grams way too light for trail riding? Any opinions? Here's the geometry for the 1950 gram version, the SL is the same just lighter.
> 
> View attachment 956199


I would be interested in that for my endurance bike. Is that carbonality.com?


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

Lenny7 said:


> I would be interested in that for my endurance bike. Is that carbonality.com?


Yup sure is!


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## itradebr (Mar 5, 2013)

Any one got one of these "New" Titan NL 29er ?

Im looking to confirm if its intended for 100 or 120mm front fork.
And also if the rear shock is 190x50mm as stated in the website?

Last thing, whar kind of bushings should i look at to use with the shock and the Titan?

thanks


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

itradebr said:


> Any one got one of these "New" Titan NL 29er ?
> 
> Im looking to confirm if its intended for 100 or 120mm front fork.
> And also if the rear shock is 190x50mm as stated in the website?
> ...


I'd be interested as well. According to the site front is 120 mm and rear is 115 mm travel. I'm looking for a rear shock so I can slap it on that frame. I'm gonna use a Rockshox Revelation 120 mm fork (I think I can increase it to 130 mm by messing with the internal spaces though) as I have one of these laying around the house. I have read that some have trouble with this Titan frame and Rockshox bushings, anyone able to chine in?


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## itradebr (Mar 5, 2013)

mtbone said:


> I'd be interested as well. According to the site front is 120 mm and rear is 115 mm travel. I'm looking for a rear shock so I can slap it on that frame. I'm gonna use a Rockshox Revelation 120 mm fork (I think I can increase it to 130 mm by messing with the internal spaces though) as I have one of these laying around the house. I have read that some have trouble with this Titan frame and Rockshox bushings, anyone able to chine in?


Yap. I was looking to buy the frame and at the same time order the shock and bushings online so need to make sure! There is some nice deals in 2012-2014 Dt Swiss Shocks on Bike24.com. Just need to make sure on the correct sizing.

Waiting on the message i send to Carbonal on Facebook and e-mail.


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

itradebr said:


> Yap. I was looking to buy the frame and at the same time order the shock and bushings online so need to make sure! There is some nice deals in 2012-2014 Dt Swiss Shocks on Bike24.com. Just need to make sure on the correct sizing.
> 
> Waiting on the message i send to Carbonal on Facebook and e-mail.


Awesome keep us posted! This is the first time I heard of DT Swiss Shocks.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Is there a frame out there which takes a 120 mm fork? What about a 120 fork and a 68 or 69 degree head tube on the same frame?

Are people buying their fork and shock from China as well? I thought about ordering one for long enough. Some smart person, point this dummy in the right direction.

I plan to ride some long distance trails at a snails pace. You know, do some bikepacking. I have no plans to do any jumping. I will make a guess that things in the ever changing world of bike design are going to level off at 142 and 120 for a while.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Second question
What spare parts would a smart person order? I read a couple of reports about carbon seat posts not lasting... someone did not like the pivots.... Should I just get a Cane Creek head set? Should I count on the handle bar to last or order 2?


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

Ip-036 has 110-120mm of travel. I have had no problems with the seat post or handlebars. The headset might not last forever but it works well. I would order spare rear axle and hangars.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

I remember some AutoCAD user(s) early on the thread claiming 108mm of travel for the 036.


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a Titan 29er frame and will wait about 3 weeks or so for it to come to my door. In the mean time...I gotta source all my parts muahahaha. I might go with a Fox CTD 7.50 x 2.00 for the rear. This is the closest shock size that I found that Fox offers that is compatible with the Titan frame. That frame is setup for a 190 mm x 50 mm rear shock. My current seatpost is a 31.6 mm but the frame is designed for a 31.8 mm I'm thinking...will this be a problem or should I find some sort of spacer to fill the gap, eventhough its TINY...the frame is carbon so I don't know how it will react with a different seatpost diameter, it might not be happy. As for cranks, I currently have SRAM X-7 2x10 cranks, I'll research some more and post updates on my build, I'll even post a build log once my frame and parts come. Seeing as not many people have this frame, it might be useful for others.

EDIT: Ugh, my cranks don't seem to work for threaded BBs. Anyone recommend a 10 speed crankset one that won't break the bank and be compatible with the Titan's 68 mm wide BSA BB? How are the BSA adapters anyway?


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

mtbone said:


> EDIT: Ugh, my cranks don't seem to work for threaded BBs. Anyone recommend a 10 speed crankset one that won't break the bank and be compatible with the Titan's 68 mm wide BSA BB? How are the BSA adapters anyway?


You can pick up a slx for about $85.
Shimano SLX M675 Double Chainset | Merlin Cycles


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Possible dumb question, but I've never installed a rear shock before. If I buy the Titan frame and the appropriate 190 x 50 shock will it just slide in and bolt on or will I need to buy separate bushings?


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## jimbo15471 (Jun 18, 2012)

Most rear shocks don't come with bushings so you will need to install in my experience.


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## mtbone (Jun 14, 2014)

Just curious, how is the pedaling on these Chinese frame, like pedal bob? What kind of linkage are the considered to be? Just curious since other companies like Yeti and others have other "wizardry" in their rear suspension for climbing and descending performance. How do these compare?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

The FM036 is a single pivot style suspension (faux bar), with a fair amount of anti-squat when using a 22/24t chainring while climbing. It needs a 165x38mm shock with high/firm compression and rebound tune to be used optimally.
When I'm climbing off-road on steep paths, I tend to keep the shock unlocked, to absorb any roughness.
But when I'm pushing myself in a larger chainring (36t) I tend to use more compression damping on my rear shock, because the linkage is not optimized for that usage.
I regard the design as a nice trailbike. I also use a 120mm fork on mine.


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## Ene (May 8, 2014)

two-one said:


> The FM036 is a single pivot style suspension (faux bar), with a fair amount of anti-squat when using a 22/24t chainring while climbing. It needs a 165x38mm shock with high/firm compression and rebound tune to be used optimally.
> When I'm climbing off-road on steep paths, I tend to keep the shock unlocked, to absorb any roughness.
> But when I'm pushing myself in a larger chainring (36t) I tend to use more compression damping on my rear shock, because the linkage is not optimized for that usage.
> I regard the design as a nice trailbike. I also use a 120mm fork on mine.


Did you buy a shock with that tune or is it a custom mod?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Ene said:


> Did you buy a shock with that tune or is it a custom mod?


I bought a secondhand 2013 monarch rt3, and refitted it myself.... but I have some experience in rebuilding rear shocks, all my shocks are custom tuned... I'm really getting the hang of this shimstack business


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## Ene (May 8, 2014)

two-one said:


> I bought a secondhand 2013 monarch rt3, and refitted it myself.... but I have some experience in rebuilding rear shocks, all my shocks are custom tuned... I'm really getting the hang of this shimstack business


Ait. Im thinking of getting a Monarch RL. Is it a pita to tune it or?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I didn't think so... Rockshox makes the best manuals, and I could order everything for affordable prices at gabelprofi.de


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## Ene (May 8, 2014)

Would be grateful if You could tell me what parts I need to change the tune to high/firm.

Thanks!


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## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Ene said:


> Would be grateful if You could tell me what parts I need to change the tune to high/firm.
> 
> Thanks!


This is the one I picked up for my 2013 RT3. They are different based on the year of your shock so make sure you have the correct one.


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## timbo337 (Apr 12, 2005)

*Eye candy*

This thread needs some more eye candy.

I bought this AC-036 frame from ICAN bikes, dealing with Linda. I was lucky enough to get a frame that was in stock, so it only took 10 days from purchase to arriving at my door. The finish is great, it was well packed, and there isn't much to complain about. The rear shock mounting hardware was a bit of a tight fit, though. I ordered 22.8 mm mounting hardware for my shock (an RT3), and had to sand down the finish and metal insert a little bit in order to get the shock eyes into place.

Other than that, the frame built up easily and I was out the door just before the snow storm hit. I'm still waiting on some 30mm hookless carbon wheels from Peter at IPlay to get to me, which should show up in the next few days.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice looking FS Chiner! I built my IP-036 I got from Xmiplay last May, very happy with the bike.


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## Gavrylov (Feb 20, 2015)

Hi there!
because of this thread and lots of positive comments desided to make my build on chineese frame.























































This bike went through different marathons and has seen a lot of hard riding. Total weight is 11.4 in hard* setup.

IMO with the frame weight of 2.17 kg the rear triangle is too flexy in horisontal way and it's noticiable. Why no one mentioned it here I don't know, of course my frame can be an exeption, but I dont think so(
So from my point of view its more or less ok for marathons, but not for xc races or hard cornering, on the speed over 40 km/h it's not stable enouth(
Specs:
Frame: Carbon Suspension niner, 21, UD, BB30
Fork: RockShox Sid XX => Brain, 100 мм.
Shock: RockShox Monarch RT3 M|S.
Brakes: Shimano XT
Rotors: Quaxar Iris 180/160
Wheels: ROVAL => Mavic Crossmax ST 
Tires: Rocket Ron 2.1 snakeskin / Crossmark 2.1 
Sealant: Stans => Continental Revo
Sram XO 175mm (44/33/22),RaceFace pads, Sram BB30
F|R del: Shimano XT 
Cassette: Shimano XT 10 (11-36) => Neutrino+XT (13-42)
Pedals: Shimano 540 => Ritchey v4 Pro micro
Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio
Noname Carbon Seatpost,seatback 31.6x400mm
Noname Carbon Handlebar, Lowriser 31.8 x 690mm
Steam: Uno (100, -35) => Uno (85,-7)


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Guys,

Looking to pull the trigger on of these bad boys, replacing the Anthem 29er in the process. Has anyone ordered their full sus frame from Miraclebikes.com, if so, any reasons not to use them.

Cheers


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Gavrylov said:


> Hi there!
> because of this thread and lots of positive comments desided to make my build on chineese frame.
> 
> IMO with the frame weight of 2.17 kg the rear triangle is too flexy in horisontal way and it's noticiable. Why no one mentioned it here I don't know, of course my frame can be an exeption, but I dont think so(
> ...


Is your frame one of the IP/FM-036? One comment, given the extreme height of your seatpost, it appears the frame size should be larger for your height. I know some people like it that way, but maybe some of the flex you are talking about is coming from your seat post or your rear wheel. Have you checked spoke tension on your wheels? I have an IP-036 and feel more flex from my wheels, not much at all from my frame.



Bananaskin said:


> Guys,
> 
> Looking to pull the trigger on of these bad boys, replacing the Anthem 29er in the process. Has anyone ordered their full sus frame from Miraclebikes.com, if so, any reasons not to use them.
> Cheers


I've not read anyone ordering from Miraclebikes.com, sounds like just another Chinese vendor (or Chendor). If you are interested in an IP-036, one of the more proven frames, many people order from Peter at Xmiplay.com, or HongFu, or DengFu or others. I've been accused of pushing XMIplay on this forum but that's only because they generally provide good service and good communication. There are lots of decent vendors on the web, just giving you some options.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> I've not read anyone ordering from Miraclebikes.com, sounds like just another Chinese vendor (or Chendor). If you are interested in an IP-036, one of the more proven frames, many people order from Peter at Xmiplay.com, or HongFu, or DengFu or others. I've been accused of pushing XMIplay on this forum but that's only because they generally provide good service and good communication. There are lots of decent vendors on the web, just giving you some options.


Cheers Epic_Dude, options are good, but what is better is experience of good customer service/communication.

Thanks


----------



## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

My neighbour recently ordered from ICAN through Aliexpress and it went very quickly and smoothly. He was talking about being in a better place should things go wrong by using Aliexpress. I can't remember exactly what he said those benefits were, but I assume he meant recourse / warranty being actioned properly.


----------



## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

I have an ICAN frame also. Couldn't be happier with it. They are made by Miracle. I bought the ICAN because it was less expensive.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Hate to burst your bubble, but Miracle is not a manufacturer, looks like they are just another Chinese trading company.


----------



## mobes (Feb 6, 2014)

No bubble bursted 

I just shouldn't repeat what I read elsewhere on internet forums, then.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. Been looking on Aliexpress (having ordered from the marketplace before) The average price is around $700 for the IP036/Variants does anyone have the current pricing + postage from the likes of XMIPLAY or HongFu (don't display their prices or postage on their web sites).

Cheers


----------



## Ene (May 8, 2014)

Bananaskin said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Been looking on Aliexpress (having ordered from the marketplace before) The average price is around $700 for the IP036/Variants does anyone have the current pricing + postage from the likes of XMIPLAY or HongFu (don't display their prices or postage on their web sites).
> 
> Cheers


I paid $800US. That was with shipping, headset, extra droputs. Orderd from XMIplay. Thou I cant recomend buying from them as I had some problems and had to send it back and sort it via PayPal.


----------



## Gavrylov (Feb 20, 2015)

Epic_Dude said:


> Is your frame one of the IP/FM-036? One comment, given the extreme height of your seatpost, it appears the frame size should be larger for your height. I know some people like it that way, but maybe some of the flex you are talking about is coming from your seat post or your rear wheel. Have you checked spoke tension on your wheels? I have an IP-036 and feel more flex from my wheels, not much at all from my frame.


Seatpost is stiff, even with it's hight. Rear Roval wheel used to be flexy after the crash? thus it was replaced with Mavis ST which is increadibly stiff. On the hardtail I feel just a wheel flex...
BTW bought mine from Bikegates for 680 with headset and shipping.​


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

At the quotation stage with miracle bikes, reluctant to pay the 4.5% PayPal surcharge that they're demanding so may use the Aliexpress cart which may give me more customer protection if things do go wrong. Disappointed that there isn't a rear mech hanger included with the frame. Are the hangers similar across the Chinese frame range as I've several for my Flyxii fr-202.

Looking at the rockshox monarch xx simply cos it comes with hydraulic remote v's cable operated (noted the mention of the sharp bend in the shock cable routing).

As for the headset, used the Nico on my HT with no bother, I use a star nut though with the assembly instead of the supplied expanding jobbie (can't thijnk of its name). Was thinking of using a Cane Creek or similar, anyone any issues with top bearing height or is it a case of getting out the callipers..

Thanks


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

4.5% PayPal is common with many of the Chinese vendors, Paypal offers good protection which a few people have needed for refunds of defective merchandise, have no clue if the Aliexpress protection is useful or not. In my opinion 4.5% is a small amount to pay for proven protection.

Typically one hanger is included, there is a charge for ordering a spare. Maybe that is something vendors on Aliexpress do not include.

Never had a problem with the expansion nut on the Neco headset but some people like to stick with what they know.

Good luck with your build.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Last question for those that have a Sram 2x10 setup on their IP036. Did you get the high or low direct mount front mech and is it the S2 (22mm bolt centre's one slightly more offset than the other)

Thanks.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Bananaskin said:


> Last question for those that have a Sram 2x10 setup on their IP036. Did you get the high or low direct mount front mech and is it the S2 (22mm bolt centre's one slightly more offset than the other)
> 
> Thanks.


I have the Flyxii frame, but I believe it's the same design.

I used the Low, direct mount, bottom pull S3 front derailleur. 
I have two for sale if you're interested. One is brand new and one is used but in perfect shape.

Shoot me a PM if you're interested.


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Bananaskin said:


> At the quotation stage with miracle bikes, reluctant to pay the 4.5% PayPal surcharge that they're demanding so may use the Aliexpress cart which may give me more customer protection if things do go wrong. Disappointed that there isn't a rear mech hanger included with the frame. Are the hangers similar across the Chinese frame range as I've several for my Flyxii fr-202.
> 
> Looking at the rockshox monarch xx simply cos it comes with hydraulic remote v's cable operated (noted the mention of the sharp bend in the shock cable routing).
> 
> ...


I've got a Monarch XX for sale if you're interested. Shoot me a PM.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> 4.5% PayPal is common with many of the Chinese vendors, Paypal offers good protection which a few people have needed for refunds of defective merchandise, have no clue if the Aliexpress protection is useful or not. In my opinion 4.5% is a small amount to pay for proven protection.
> 
> Typically one hanger is included, there is a charge for ordering a spare. Maybe that is something vendors on Aliexpress do not include.
> 
> ...


PayPal has horrible protection if you buy overseas, you're better off just using your CC protection.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

hidperf said:


> I have the Flyxii frame, but I believe it's the same design.
> 
> I used the Low, direct mount, bottom pull S3 front derailleur.
> I have two for sale if you're interested. One is brand new and one is used but in perfect shape.
> ...


Cheers hidperf,

Nearly was buying the wrong one. Regarding the Monarch XX and Front Mech, from reading your blog you're US based, I'm in Ireland. The cost of shipping and potential customs tax would probably be more than me buying new from Germany. Thanks for the offer all the same.

Regards


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Bananaskin said:


> Cheers hidperf,
> 
> Nearly was buying the wrong one. Regarding the Monarch XX and Front Mech, from reading your blog you're US based, I'm in Ireland. The cost of shipping and potential customs tax would probably be more than me buying new from Germany. Thanks for the offer all the same.
> 
> Regards


That's correct.

I was just in Ireland in 2013. Love your country!

Good luck on the build.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

RS Monarch XX (2015 model) ordered from Alltricks.fr for €239 (exceptional price). My frame is still in UK customs at the moment, has been since Sunday 8th, been hammering Parcelforce website for status updates.

Getting impatient now!!


----------



## intellikat (Mar 13, 2015)

Reposting from other related threads-- 

I wanted to reach out an make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured components/frames useful.

I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB. 

He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.

I've been pretty curious about the number of FS bikes I've seen, as well as the 27.5ers and would like to get a hold of a few frames to test... in the works.


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## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Hey all, 

Is anyone using an XT 785 E2 2x10 Direct Mount FD on their XX-036?

Cheers


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Well, frame finally arrived after being held by customs for 10 days, £39.50 charge, suppose I got off light, declared value was $100. Parcelforce delivery guy wasn't too pleased either, I kept him waiting while I examined the frame, rear right dropout had managed to pierce the box and I wasn't signing for it without a good examination.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Those drop outs can be hard on the box if the vendor doesn't do a good job of wrapping them with foam or bubble wrap. I had a similar issue with my box, however after examination, the frame was fine.


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Just when you think its safe to go back into the water.

Wrong BB type sent!!

Ordered BB30, got BSA. Not my day today.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

*IP-098. Links and Torques.*



Padyakero said:


> 3) In terms of build quality, there are some issues though not something that could make the bike dangerous to ride. One is Pivot bearings are sub-standard that most users just replace them right before starting to build. In my case I just greased them and tighten to the right torque and luckily didn't experience anymore plays or creaks in the links that other users have reported.


Hi once again! 
Got my IP-098. Well, I must say I'm surprised how well it is built. No plays, no creaks. Bearings are ok, doesn't seem they need replacement, greased all, but now there is a problem to tighten them... The torque is written only on one link and guess what? Of course there is no manual with the chinese frame  
So, please, I would greatly appreciate if anybody could tell me right torque values for each link. If there is such info at all  May be a picture or photo with values next to each link? Thanks!


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Just a quick one. IP-036 and variants, rear brake line ran internal or externally.

Thanks


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Ran mine internal for the cleanest cable routing. Also running XX1 so not front derailleur cable to worry about either.


----------



## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

*Link assembly...*

Hi!
Need some help here.
Was inspecting links on my ip-098 frame once again when noticed something strange... And don't know if I should be worried now or not.
So, in particular this link:









Well, two links symmetricaly on left and right side of the frame.

I disassembled it:









There is a bearing in the top tube, but if we examine the link from the inner side there is no bearing in the bracket:









And the link is assembled with this screw:
















So, what do you think, is it ok?

My first thought was that bracket is actually missing a bearing may be or something.

It turns out that these two symmetrical links are actually stretching the bracket to the opposite directions a little bit until the bush is pressed against the bearing (there is still room for it to be stretched further and I actually can do so if I press hard with a thumb). The bracket is some kind of a spring?:skep:

Then ok, there is a bearing in the top tube, but what's its goal if the black cap of the screw plays a role of a bearing for the bracket part of the assembly?









Again, do you think it is intended to be assembled this way? Won't it cause excessive wear in the bracket part of the link? I'm really confused.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I doubt you are missing any bearings, those bushing appear to be what was intended for that frame. As for the link being spread out, it doesn't seem correct although they are curved to be offset from the frame out to the rear triangle 

Does the linkage and rear triangle move freely without the shock mounted?

Is there lateral tension on the link itself?


----------



## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> Does the linkage and rear triangle move freely without the shock mounted?


Yes.

But there is barely noticable play in the braket part, which i guess can't be eliminated, because... well, just because the bushing's outer diameter is smaller than that of a hole in the bracket and the black cap of the screw is not a pressed-in bearing and its diameter is also a bit smaller than a hole for it in the bracket. When both links are tightened and the shock is installed you can't actually feel that play, but who knows what it will be like during a ride on a complete bike... 
It seems strange to have such design in one of the main stress points of the frame. But I'm not an engineer, may be it is all properly calculated by Chinese... I don' know, hope it won't fall apart on the first ride...



Epic_Dude said:


> Is there lateral tension on the link itself?


No as far as i can tell, but mb i got it wrong, could you specify what you mean by lateral tension on the link itself? Do you mean the carbon part i called "bracket"? If so - no. Its shape is as it is on the photo, not like it has been spread out by 1-2cm, no. Of course screws pull it left and right, but "pull" is really a strong word here, screws simply ensure that there is no lateral play (and there is none) and the amount of tension they put on the carbon bracket is really low.


----------



## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm also concerned about the lateral stiffness of the frame. When there is a side force only one half of the carbon bracket countes it, the one that is being pulled from the frame, the other half cannot be pushed with this kind of screw/pivot conjunction, it will simply try to close the gap to the tube of the rear triangle. It's clear that carbon's stiffness is much greater than that of aluminium, but is it that great to allow use of only one half of that link?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

...c'mon now! build it, ride it , rate it...then get back to us!!


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

Yep, i'd like to, waiting for some remaing parts and enough free time


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## max black (Apr 4, 2015)

Epic_dude Where did you get a picture of my bike from?? No joke.that is my actual bike .that image is pre photo shop so still has the wire showing that was holding her up.


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## max black (Apr 4, 2015)

mr.singletrack said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Velobuild VB-M-093?
> 
> VB-M-093 Carbon Fiber Full Suspension Mountain Bike Frame MTB - VeloBuild
> 
> Or should I take no chances and go for a FM036 or Titan dual suspension 29er?


I have the exact frame , infact the cheeky website has stolen my pre photoshop image to advertise it on their website which I didn't even purchase the frame from. Enough of that and back to the frame. I have been running her for over a year and the only problem I have had has been with the main pivot coming loose on the first couple of rides despite tightening it .on closer inspection there was no threadlock so I applied some and have been trouble free ever since . The suspension action is nice and smooth with 120mm of travel( i run a 130mm rs revelation up front ala spec camber evo) with a medium tune fox float (200x50)


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

max black said:


> Epic_dude Where did you get a picture of my bike from?? No joke.that is my actual bike .that image is pre photo shop so still has the wire showing that was holding her up.


Hi Max, not sure just did a search for that frame, didn't know it was yours. Like you said, your picture has been grabbed up and is being used by others on the internet.


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

093 and 098 are the same? Doesn't seem to have any difference...

BTW, Max, bike looks really nice! I don't approve that they've stolen the photo, but bike looks too good not to advertise... well, itself  Do you have some other photos you can share?


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## max black (Apr 4, 2015)

Dawnkeeper said:


> 093 and 098 are the same? Doesn't seem to have any difference...
> 
> BTW, Max, bike looks really nice! I don't approve that they've stolen the photo, but bike looks too good not to advertise... well, itself
> 
> Do you have some other photos you can share?


cheers dawnkeeper I think shes a looker too. I have loads of images but seem to have trouble uploading on my tablet . will let you know when I manage it.


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## max black (Apr 4, 2015)

max black said:


> cheers dawnkeeper I think shes a looker too. I have loads of images but seem to have trouble uploading on my tablet . will let you know when I manage it.


 stil struggling to up load on here . Try All Photo Album - Pinkbike


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## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

FYI there 60% off on SC frames its Juliana labeled, but you get 5 year frame warranty and lifetime bearings. and none of china carbon problems..

Juliana Joplin Mountain Bike Frame-2014 | Competitive Cyclist


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## Dawnkeeper (Aug 26, 2014)

max black said:


> stil struggling to up load on here . Try All Photo Album - Pinkbike


Nice photos! The dog makes them even better


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## max black (Apr 4, 2015)

Cheers dawnkeeper . Best way to make sure you get out on the bike everyday is a trail hound so he brightens may day as well as my photos. Called him logan as he is always on a run , plus his dad was called wolverine!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Just celebrated one year since I built my IP-036.

Rides great, only problem I have had was recently with the free hub, BiTex brand. Contacted Bitex and in one week I had a warranty replacement shipped to me from China. They did a great job of standing behind their product.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Same here Epic_Dude. 
Still lovin my IP036

One year and a couple months for me. 
After my original build I added a set of Carbon wheels from XMIplay.com

It's been nothing but great for me


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Since we're doing long-term feedback, I thought I'd join in. 
I'm 2 years into my build and have no complaints. 
I've changed things quite a bit since the initial design and build, but still happy with it every time I ride it.









Speaking of changes, I just picked up a Reverb dropper and I'm looking for ideas on hose routing. Since I don't use my remote shock anymore, I was going to go through there, but I'm looking for other ideas too. 
So if you've got a pictures of your dropper install, post 'em up.


----------



## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

Finally the first ride on the Titan on Mulga Island. Great bike But lost the rear brake and the fork still at 100mm, needs to be 120 then I won't need so much air to hold the front up.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

hidperf said:


> Speaking of changes, I just picked up a Reverb dropper and I'm looking for ideas on hose routing. Since I don't use my remote shock anymore, I was going to go through there, but I'm looking for other ideas too.
> So if you've got a pictures of your dropper install, post 'em up.


I think routing through the frame, where you had the remote lock out cable for the rear shock, is your best option.



jbchybridrider said:


> Finally the first ride on the Titan on Mulga Island. Great bike But lost the rear brake and the fork still at 100mm, needs to be 120 then I won't need so much air to hold the front up.


Nice build! Those Maxxis tires look interesting, how do you like them?


----------



## jbchybridrider (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks, I've only had Kenda small blocks before, not much traction there but the Ardent tires seem to handle everything well. The side walls were almost white when new but are turning more gum wall with age.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi all,

Done a lot of Wednesday night rides through winter in the UK and thankfully never had any mechanicals. Did manage to mangle a derailer hanger after hastily fitting a new chain and had to order a new one from FLYXii .I had to visually confirm the hanger as FLYXii were'nt sure after they stopped selling FM036 years back.

Expecting it to take a while to arrive i did find a UK Ebay seller who sold identical hanger in question. Funnily enough my road bike has the same hanger but all the machining was done on the opppsite surface, so I could use it if needed but the derailleur would be placed further out than usual.

Also took time out to change the original chinese pivot bearings which were now approaching 18 months old. On balance most were still spinning with a little roughness but the main ones behind the bottom bracket could not be turned through 180 degrees and were pretty rusty.

Also went 1 x 9 on my old XTR triple. I bought a thick thin Wolf Tooth 32 front ring and use an 11-36 at the back. Whats also cool is that using a 10 speed chain there's no drop issues even with a standard derailer.Shaved 500 grams with 1 x,so now weighing in at 24lbs and hopefully down to 23.5ilbs when summer tyres go on along with Xpedo Ti pedals - we'll see!


----------



## hidperf (Jul 14, 2011)

Epic_Dude said:


> I think routing through the frame, where you had the remote lock out cable for the rear shock, is your best option


Yes sir. After trying many options, I just ended up routing through there. 
I was trying to do it without cutting the hose, but realized that I'd have so much hose hanging around that it needed to be done. I just didn't have any fluid at the time. 
After spending a few days thinking about it, the fluid arrived and I just cut and routed. Works perfect and looks clean.

Next up, three days on the trails in NW Arkansas!!!


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

wconcretej, thanks for posting an update of your FM-036. I am surprised that Flyxxi doesn't sell the FM-036 anymore, many other Chinese vendors still sell the frame although under various names. Mine was called an IP-036 when I purchased it and I ordered a spare hanger when I got my frame last year from XMIplay which is the same as the hanger on their IP-057. Both are thru axle and interchangeable so it's unlikely I will need more than the two spares that I have.

hidperf, good to hear you got your dropper seatpost routing sorted out.


----------



## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

two-one said:


> I ordered the "Tune Assembly 2013 Monarch RT3 HH F 320 (high rebound, high compression, firm threshold)" with code 11.4118.012.022.


Hi! Did you by any chance measure the shims? I'm in a similar position and need to make the rebound stiffer on my M/M tune RT3. I have bunch of extra shims but I would like to know how the stock High rebound tune looks like.


----------



## runningwild (Sep 6, 2010)

That ride looks awesome. I have a few questions, what size is the frame and where did you purchase it. I am interested in the Lamere branded 29" FS full build, not sure about the sizing since I cant ride before I buy. I currently ride a 2013 Giant Trance X29er size large. Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## party_wagon (Oct 10, 2008)

Would you build one of these over one of the discounted gt bikes on jenson?


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

runningwild said:


> That ride looks awesome. I have a few questions, what size is the frame and where did you purchase it. I am interested in the Lamere branded 29" FS full build, not sure about the sizing since I cant ride before I buy. I currently ride a 2013 Giant Trance X29er size large. Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks


Most likely you would still need a 19" Large IP-036 frame. While LaMere is somewhat competitive in their pricing of a complete bike, you would save about $1,000 building the bike yourself. If you are not interested in building a FS 29er yourself, LaMere is a good choice, although you could also price the frame or complete bike with Peter @ his new company, Carbonspeed, his new website is Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd.


----------



## Zabran (May 13, 2015)

Looking to build my first FS MTB. Last time i purchased a bike was 15 years ago...so im very green! I do however have a friend who is a mechanic that will help me put it together.

I'm looking to build something all-mountain I think. I test rode a Large carbon Epic and really liked the feel of the bike with the way it climbed and handled. I liked the epic due to the rear brain, but I just learned that I can get a remote lockout for the front/rears that will work so much better under my control. I was hoping that maybe I could use this lockout system to build a bike that will allow to take obstacles with ease, and have fun on the downhill (not the extreme stuff). Overall I'm not really in any shape for racing or competitions, and just looking to have fun on the trails. 

I've been looking between the two FS Chiner models XX-036 and XX-098. I can't quite figure out the main differences between these two frames, and which would be better suited for the riding im looking to do. Any input or comments are greatly appreciated?


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

Having been engrossed in the build process and chopping and changing parts, I completely forgot to post a pic of the latest addition to my small fleet of bikes  Saddle borrowed from the HT until the new one arrives, bottle cage swapped out for a Specialized side loading cage.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Zabran said:


> I'm looking to build something all-mountain I think. I test rode a Large carbon Epic and really liked the feel of the bike with the way it climbed and handled.
> 
> ...
> 
> I've been looking between the two FS Chiner models XX-036 and XX-098. I can't quite figure out the main differences between these two frames, and which would be better suited for the riding im looking to do. Any input or comments are greatly appreciated?


Only one of the bikes/frames you just named are "AM"-ish bikes, the 098. The rest are squarely in the XC realm.

That said, they are incredibly capable in the hands of a skilled rider, set up for his or her riding style and terrain.

But, do you ride AM terrain? Are you getting a lot of air or hitting trails that require 140mm of travel?


----------



## Zabran (May 13, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Only one of the bikes/frames you just named are "AM"-ish bikes, the 098. The rest are squarely in the XC realm.
> 
> That said, they are incredibly capable in the hands of a skilled rider, set up for his or her riding style and terrain.
> 
> But, do you ride AM terrain? Are you getting a lot of air or hitting trails that require 140mm of travel?


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit green to actually answer that regarding the fork travel. Also i think maybe the usage of the term "All mountain" was the wrong one, sorry for any confusion...still learning.

I can link to some youtube videos that show some of the terrain. From what i remember of these trails, lots of large stumps, sometimes decent drop offs on downhills.

This is a video of another set of trails I most frequent. Palos Hills in Illinois. Start at about 1:51. 




Kettle morraine state park in Wisconsin:




around 3:50, and 4:00, 4:23 shows some

One more of Palos - 3 ravines @3:05:





A couple more of kettle moraine.









I've been leaning more towards Trail, as I think more travel will benefit me where I ride. At this point ive done a little more research, and i'm more looking for a comparison of the 098 vs say a niner RIP 9 RDO. Of course I'm no expert here and am completely open to suggestions and schooling.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Bananaskin said:


> Having been engrossed in the build process and chopping and changing parts, I completely forgot to post a pic of the latest addition to my small fleet of bikes  Saddle borrowed from the HT until the new one arrives, bottle cage swapped out for a Specialized side loading cage.
> 
> View attachment 988103


Looks really good Banaskin! If there was one thing I would change on my IP-036, and I see it on yours, is the exit location for the remote lockout cable. I ended up using a flexible loop as I wasn't crazy about the tight bend.

Otherwise the bike has been a fantastic ride, enjoy!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Zabran said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a bit green to actually answer that regarding the fork travel. Also i think maybe the usage of the term "All mountain" was the wrong one, sorry for any confusion...still learning.
> 
> . Palos Hills in Illinois.
> 
> I've been leaning more towards Trail, as I think more travel will benefit me where I ride. At this point ive done a little more research, and i'm more looking for a comparison of the 098 vs say a niner RIP 9 RDO. Of course I'm no expert here and am completely open to suggestions and schooling.


I grew up in Wheaton. Before I joined the Army, I rode Palos all the time.

That's firmly in the XC realm.

I ride much gnarlier terrain in VA on a IP-057. I'll be back in Wheaton for a month starting Friday.

If FS is something you're dead set on, I'd check out an XC bike like the Scott Spark 29er. 69 degree head tube angle at 100mm travel. Great, modern geometry yet super fast. The IP-036 is supposed to be similar, but the HTA is like 71 degrees.

I can't comprehend needing more than 100mm of travel in any part of Palos or the Kettles area.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

HT angle of the IP-036 is 69.5deg, basically the same as the Scott Spark. I've ridden a Scott Spark, feels almost exactly like my IP-036.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Are you sure?


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## Zabran (May 13, 2015)

Thanks for the advice! So maybe it would be a smart move to start with HT. I was really only leaning towards the FS because I thought it was needed, and they look pretty badass.

I specced out the WCB-M-062 and it seems like a good fit geometry wise for me.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Are you sure?


Nope, you are right, I looked at the wrong number in my spreadsheet. I double checked the IP-036 - 19" geometry again and see now that it is indeed 71deg.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, what does it actually measure out at? 

And how does it ride?

I have a brand new, never ridden SC Tallboy LTC frame that I'm considering selling to pick up either a -036 or a Spark.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> Well, what does it actually measure out at?
> 
> And how does it ride?
> 
> I have a brand new, never ridden SC Tallboy LTC frame that I'm considering selling to pick up either a -036 or a Spark.


On the -036, HT angle measures 71º ± 0.2º (using an electronic level) with a 100mm Fox fork, so right where the geometry says it should be. It would be more slack if you chose a 120mm fork. Rides fine to me but if you are looking for more angle, you may not like it. To me it feels just like a XC race bike should, very light, very nimble (at least for a 29er).

On my IP-057 the spec for the HT angle is 69.5º and I do say I notice a difference. I might lean towards the more slack angle but both feel very good.

I've ridden bikes with 67º & 68º HT angles and I'd say that was too slack for my liking, the front wheel is too far out in front for me, steering felt too slow.

The geometry chart I found for the Tallboy LTc shows a HT angle of 69.5º so I would think you would be good to go with that frame. If I had it, I would definitely give it a chance, seems like it would be a very good bike.


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## runningwild (Sep 6, 2010)

After some lengthy research I am thinking about purchasing a complete Lamere cycles branded Chinese carbon, I believe it’s a Hong Fu HF-FM036. JP at Lamere cycles has been great to deal with so far, and the bike is close to half the cost of a big name bike at the LBS. I am ordering it with exactly the component spec I want so it will dialed in from day 1. Does anyone have any experience with the Hong Fu brand? Thanks


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

runningwild said:


> After some lenghty research


Almost everyone on this thread has had experience regardless of who sells the frame i.e Hongfu, Ximply, DIYcarbonbike, FlyXii, Dengfu...etc It's the same frame sold by many under slightly different names IP036, FM036... etc,!!

The first 20 pages or so of this thread are didicated to "fm036" the original carbon china29er!!


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

runningwild said:


> After some lengthy research I am thinking about purchasing a complete Lamere cycles branded Chinese carbon, I believe it's a Hong Fu HF-FM036. JP at Lamere cycles has been great to deal with so far, and the bike is close to half the cost of a big name bike at the LBS. I am ordering it with exactly the component spec I want so it will dialed in from day 1. Does anyone have any experience with the Hong Fu brand? Thanks


If you really did do some "lengthy research" all you need to know about the XX-036 FS carbon frame has been posted in this thread. All you need to do is read through this thread, however, since it seems you didn't even bother to go that far, and appear to not be interested in building up a bike yourself from scratch, I would recommend to you to buy a turnkey bike from LaMere. You will get the same very good quality bike with no fuss and you don't need to learn anything about component selection, installation, maintenance or repair.

If you haven't already figured it out, the regular posters on this forum are into the most bike for their dollar, as well as gaining and sharing very specific knowledge about their bikes.

Posting up that you want to buy a pre-assembled Chinese Carbon bike from a middleman is really pretty pointless. Nobody here is going to tell you not to do it, all of us here have already been through the purchasing direct from China process, some of us more than once, and have posted any positive or negative experiences.

We are here to help and if you are serious about investing $4k-$6k on your next bike, please read through this thread from the beginning as most questions have already been asked and answered.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I've tried to order IP-036/CS-036 but frame is not available at the moment except at Hongfu, but their frame is more expensive for some reason. Does anyone know where I can get hold of this frame? 19" bb30 with 135/142mm dropout.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

haakonbs said:


> I've tried to order IP-036/CS-036 but frame is not available at the moment except at Hongfu, but their frame is more expensive for some reason. Does anyone know where I can get hold of this frame? 19" bb30 with 135/142mm dropout.


Have you tried Peter at xmCarbonspeed.com? What is your wait time? This frame is available from many sellers or you could even go the eBay route, you can always find one there. Note, if you order through Peter, you could also have him do some custom paint for a small additional charge.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, Peter is my nr 1 option, but he's got about 30 days + lead time. I had a look at ebay but no findings except carbonzone.

I was hoping to get it before my summer holidays in July


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

It does seem that most vendors do not carry much inventory and a 30 day wait time is not uncommon. Not to mention, it's the start of the mountain biking season so it's the busiest time of the year to want to get something quickly.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

True. Need to plan better


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Which frame is the slackest with the longest top tube. Need a long top tube and low stand over height. Thanks!


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## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

haakonbs said:


> I've tried to order IP-036/CS-036 but frame is not available at the moment except at Hongfu, but their frame is more expensive for some reason. Does anyone know where I can get hold of this frame? 19" bb30 with 135/142mm dropout.


You might get some mileage from Jenny at Miracle Bikes.

29er suspension carbon bike frame-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame

Got mine there. Just double check that they are sending out the BB30 and not BSA which is what happened with me.


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## robert.mil (Sep 22, 2014)

I have also very positive experience with Jenny from Miracle.

Bananaskin, how big is space between rear wheel and frame?
I have old 29" Giant S-XC2 wheel set with Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.25 and there is space at max 5 milimeteres. And the tires are really used, like a slick without any tread pattern. Do you have same experience?
It is much better with new tire Rubena Scylla 2.25 which probably has a lower profile.


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## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

robert.mil said:


> I have also very positive experience with Jenny from Miracle.
> 
> Bananaskin, how big is space between rear wheel and frame?
> I have old 29" Giant S-XC2 wheel set with Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.25 and there is space at max 5 milimeteres. And the tires are really used, like a slick without any tread pattern. Do you have same experience?
> It is much better with new tire Rubena Scylla 2.25 which probably has a lower profile.


Robert.mil,

No issues here, I've a Specialized Fast Track 2.0 on my rear wheel and have around 1.5cm clearance. Is the Ralph a large volume tyre?


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## pamik (Sep 19, 2007)

jbchybridrider said:


> Finally the first ride on the Titan on Mulga Island. Great bike But lost the rear brake and the fork still at 100mm, needs to be 120 then I won't need so much air to hold the front up.


jbchybridrider, very nice build. Green accents look awesome 

*Question to everybody: what is the best way to contact Carbonal?*

I have some questions I want to ask prior to ordering. I tried emailing them ([email protected]) as well as messaging them via facebook - no reply.

Other sellers I dealt with in the past (HongFu, LTBikes) were much more responsive...


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

subspd said:


> Which frame is the slackest with the longest top tube. Need a long top tube and low stand over height. Thanks!


Bump for help.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

subspd said:


> Bump for help.


AFAIK there are only 3 different FS 29er Chinnese frames.
036 - 71 HA
098 - 70 HA
TitanX from Carbonal (~$200 more expensive and only one trader) - 70 HA

How this angles were measured nobody really knows.


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## Travisandcindy (Dec 21, 2012)

So in addition to that the 036 has an A-C measurement of 506mm and the 098 has an A-C of 514mm. My RockShox fork at 120mm has an A-C of 540mm. From what I gathered 20mm=1 degree, so the 036 has a difference of 34mm or 1.7 degrees and the 098 has a difference of 26mm or 1.3 degrees. So with a 120mm fork the 036 would end up with a head angle of 69.3 and the 098 with a head angle of 68.7. Not that I have thought this through or anything...... Are my calculations and line of thought correct?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Has anyone used offset bushings to alter the HTA on one of these?

I like the -036 but after riding a 69 degree HTA XC hard tail, I can't imagine going back to a steeper full suspension bike.


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## Bech (Mar 11, 2012)

Hello

Im new to this forum, but i looks like the place to go for advice about china frame.

I am looking for a 29 inch full suspension frame. I think the market is vastly confusing. There are an incredible number very similar frames at similar prices.

*Initial question*
1. Are frames Coming from the same factory?
2. If they do not all come from the same factory which manufacturer produced as the best OEM China frame?
3. Is it best yo by from ebay or directly from the manufacturer?

*requirements*
I have the following requirements.
1. UD matt finish
2. 142x12 through axel
3. Taperd head tube.
4. As much internal cabel as possible.
The following is not a requirements but a big plus.
5. 165mm rear shock (So I can reuse the one I have now)
6. direct mount front derailleur (The plan is to run 1x11, but it's nice to have the option)
7. BB92 buttom bracket (To get a newer standard.)

*Options*
I've looked at the following since it has a reasonable price and meets most of my requirements.
29er Full suspension Carbon Frame Disc Brake, View 29er full suspension carbon frame disc brake, OEM Product Details from Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Goods Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
or 
CS-036 29er full suspension carbon mtb bike frame - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
or
29er Frame - Best 29er Suspension Bicycle Carbon Frame Yoeleo

But then i found this. I like the frame design and maby 27.5" is ok. Im 179Cm tall, maby 27,5" is the right wheel size for me.
Chinese carbon full suspension 27.5er frame MTB 650B full suspension 27.5er frame, View suspension 27.5er frame, zhongwei Product Details from Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

But then there's also this one. I'm not particularly liking the design, but maybe it's a better frame.
Titan 29er NL MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com
or 
27.5ER T700 SUPER LIGHT CARBON ALL-MOUNTAIN FM288 - dengfubikes But i live in a flat contry, so most riding is Cross contry.

Other suggestions are more then welcome?

*Size*
What frame size should i go for, now i use 18" or 18,5" but many of these frames are 17,5" and jume to 19". Im 179cm tall.

*Wheel*

I'm still not sure I buying OEM carbon wheels. But if I do I'll also need some help here.

There are many different width, height, hole number, etc.
What to choose?

It's a mix between Cross contry and trail riding.
It should be tubeless

I really there is somone who can help and share their experiences.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Now 1500 km on my FM036 and iam more than satisfied. Run everything from XC racing to endurance racing here in Sweden . A few weeks ago I started to hear a creaking sound from the rear triangle.

It proved to be the bearing that have started to move sideways inside the bearing shells I bought new bearings and used Loctite 641 on both the bearings and the shell. This solved the problem.

Would recommend to replace the bearings earlier than 1500 km since they were very worn.


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## Bech (Mar 11, 2012)

Where did you by your frame?


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Bech said:


> Where did you by your frame?


I bought it at Hong Fu Bikes.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Bech said:


> Hello
> 
> 1. Are frames Coming from the same factory? *YES and NO, the same model frame comes from the same factory but there are may models of Chinese frames so all things considered there could be several factories making the various frames you see online. *
> 2. If they do not all come from the same factory which manufacturer produced as the best OEM China frame? *Carbonspeed.com is a good choice.*
> ...


Hope you find what you are looking for.


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm searching for the 036 frame without rear end pivot. 
There is no pivot above the rear axle. Some kind of flex seatstay.
I saw this weeks ago somewhere on the Internet.

Any ideas?

Edit:

Should be this frame


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

I pulled the trigger on a UD matte black cs-036 frame, headset, seatpost and saddle.
Should arrive the first week of july.
I prefer a lockout on the bar.
Went for a standard Monarch XX, only available in a mid tune though.
RS SID XX 120mm and full sprint lockout.

As I've read through previous posts in this topic the advise was a shock with a firm tune. We' ll see how that goes.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Travisandcindy said:


> So in addition to that the 036 has an A-C measurement of 506mm and the 098 has an A-C of 514mm. My RockShox fork at 120mm has an A-C of 540mm. From what I gathered 20mm=1 degree, so the 036 has a difference of 34mm or 1.7 degrees and the 098 has a difference of 26mm or 1.3 degrees. So with a 120mm fork the 036 would end up with a head angle of 69.3 and the 098 with a head angle of 68.7. Not that I have thought this through or anything...... Are my calculations and line of thought correct?


Great info! Thanks!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

maettu said:


> I'm searching for the 036 frame without rear end pivot.
> There is no pivot above the rear axle. Some kind of flex seatstay.
> I saw this weeks ago somewhere on the Internet.
> 
> ...


Looks like the Yeti ASR-C. And looks awesome.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Dikkie said:


> I pulled the trigger on a UD matte black cs-036 frame, headset, seatpost and saddle.
> Should arrive the first week of july.
> I prefer a lockout on the bar.
> Went for a standard Monarch XX, only available in a mid tune though.
> ...


Congrats, you will enjoy riding it once you get it built up.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

So I've got my frame from Peter last week. Looks nice. I've got a Race Face Next SL crankset with q-factor 168 mm which I'm considering using. The frame is BB30. Will this BSA 30 BB work? RWC BSA 30 BOTTOM BRACKET w/ANGULAR CONTACT BEARINGS

Or something like this? https://r2-bike.com/THM-Carbones-Innenlager-MTB-fuer-BB30-Rahmen-99g


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

BSA BB will not work. Frame is BB30 68mm housing, so no threads for a BSA BB.
The THM option should work.
With normal BB30 Bb's the bearing are inside the frame and hence RF spacer kit F10010 is needed.
However, THM has outside bearings for increased stability.
Also good is the sleeve and the threads to hold the cups in place which reduces the risk of damaging the frameshell and get rid of creacking issues.
Now according to RF :total needed BB width, including all spacers 98,1 +/- 1mm.
THM claims its BB30 measures 93mm across.
This would mean you need 5mm of spindlespacers.



haakonbs said:


> So I've got my frame from Peter last week. Looks nice. I've got a Race Face Next SL crankset with q-factor 168 mm which I'm considering using. The frame is BB30. Will this BSA 30 BB work? RWC BSA 30 BOTTOM BRACKET w/ANGULAR CONTACT BEARINGS
> 
> Or something like this? https://r2-bike.com/THM-Carbones-Innenlager-MTB-fuer-BB30-Rahmen-99g
> 
> View attachment 997788


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

What if I use a bsa adapter?


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Yes, I overlooked that, RF has a BSA BB too.
On my other bike a I use the RF Next SL with a RF BB92 BB.
Runs very smooth.
RF Next SL, THM BB...a BSA adapter is not the weight weenie solution though ;-)

About shock setup:
The cable takes a sharp bend, is it possible to flip the shock? (Not for/aft, but around the length axle?)


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

For the bottom bracket I'm after something that works  BB30 is killing me. So with a BSA adapter I could fit the RWC BSA 30 BOTTOM BRACKET w/ANGULAR CONTACT BEARINGS ?

Good idea about the cable! I'll see if that's possible.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Frame is 68mm?
The Race Face BSA bottom bracket works on either 68 or 73mm frames.
So will the RWC BSA BB30.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks. BB are difficult I think. Frame is 68mm. So if I choose the THM options I could get these ? https://r2-bike.com/WHEELS-MFG-Spacer-BB30-Spacer-Kit-74g_1


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

About the remote lockout for the shock. Yes, the hole exiting the frame is too close to the shock. I tried flipping my shock around but the FOX CTD would not mount in that orientaion. I was able to change the angle at which the cable lug on the shock was facing, which helped. I ended up using a aluminum flexi cable housing (a few dollars on ebay) that allowed me to create a small loop that better routed the cable to the shock with the cable just exiting above where the shock mounts. See picture below:


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Monarch xx has no cable, but oil


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

If your Monarch will work, you could try flipping it around and routing the hydraulic line out the back of the fwd mount, instead of the hole, and see if that works for you. For me, I could not flip my shock around and get it to work in that orientation the features on the shock for the cable remote stick up high and would hit the frame.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dikkie said:


> BSA BB will not work. Frame is BB30 68mm housing, so no threads for a BSA BB.
> The THM option should work.
> With normal BB30 Bb's the bearing are inside the frame and hence RF spacer kit F10010 is needed.
> However, THM has outside bearings for increased stability.
> ...


Incorrect.

This is exactly what a BSA30 bottom bracket, as made by RaceFace, RWC, Zipp, etc. is for.

You use their standard 68/73mm spindle and RaceFace BSA30 BB with the Next SL (or Cannondale Hollowgram) on BSA frames.


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I changed the damper the other way around. It gets difficult to adjust the rebound but I guess I don't do that to often. I'm still waiting for my RWC bearings to turn up


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> This is exactly what a BSA30 bottom bracket, as made by RaceFace, RWC, Zipp, etc. is for.
> 
> You use their standard 68/73mm spindle and RaceFace BSA30 BB with the Next SL (or Cannondale Hollowgram) on BSA frames.


True, on BSA frames.
This is a BB30 frame.
In this case, given the possibility to order either a BSA or BB30 frame, I would always select the 'adapterless' option.
That's my personal preference though.
I've had issues with 'PF30 to 24mm spindle' adapters that I've never encountered with the old BSA fit and forget standard.

Perhaps simply because I like threaded over pressfit, I went for the BSA frame, nice to know that 30mm cranks are an option too ;-)


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

The damper flipped


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## Rossco1974 (Feb 4, 2013)

My effort thus far...IP098. Greased all the pivots on arrival...same bearings. Monarch XX shock, reverse mounted because it's the only way it fits and actually makes the internal routing easier for the lock out. Have a 120mm fork...which is exactly what it needs. Yes yes the decals are naff but looks plain without them...sourced from Kode Bikes in China...taking all parts off my Hong Fu Hard tail onto this.


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## Rossco1974 (Feb 4, 2013)

parts off this one....


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

haakonbs said:


> The damper flipped
> View attachment 998032


Looking good.
Did you cycle the suspension through the full travel?
I'm affraid the rebound button might hit the frametube.

I meant to put the shock the other way around, keep it in the same 'rebound up' position but switch eye to eye (180°).There is less movement in the front shock eye.
Rebound will be harder to reach though.


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Dikkie said:


> Looking good.
> Did you cycle the suspension through the full travel?
> I'm affraid the rebound button might hit the frametube.
> 
> ...


No, the bike is still under progress  The shock is not mounted. Wating for RWC bearings. I'll swap it around


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## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

haakonbs said:


> No, the bike is still under progress  The shock is not mounted. Wating for RWC bearings. I'll swap it around


I might try that myself, I've my RS XX mounted conventionally (if there is such a thing in MTB)


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Bananaskin said:


> I might try that myself, I've my RS XX mounted conventionally (if there is such a thing in MTB)
> 
> View attachment 998146


Is your damper working ok with that setup?


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I tried last two options 

This won't fit








This looks strange


----------



## Bananaskin (Jul 10, 2014)

haakonbs said:


> Is your damper working ok with that setup?


It sure does, haakonbs, just make sure that you don't have to sharp a bend in the hydraulic hose.


----------



## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Test ride. Very happy


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Very good haakonbs! I like those DT Swiss wheels.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks. The wheels are great. Not the lighest but do work great.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

The weight of my bike was 10,3 kg. A bit more then I was hoping for, but I guess with the Race Face Next SL crankset it will be a bit lighter.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

I got my CS-036 frame (along with a Neco headset, sp-07 seatpost, carbon saddle, carbon fork to transform my Pivot les into a rigid singlespeed and 15 and 12mm thru axles) in yesterday.
The 'postwoman' demanded a whopping €357 customs taxes...
Luckily, after opening the box I quickly forgot my disappointment.
Everything was well packed.
Suspension movement was very smooth, no need to swap the bearings.
I also got a bonus: Though Peter said it wasn't possible to use a stealth dropper seatpost, I easily managed to feed an outer shifter cable through the seattube.

The cable has ample room to pass above the BB shell into the downtube, so no interfering with the Crankaxle .
Still in doubt if I will go that way because I don't like to route a cable under the downtube (be it for the rear brake or rear derailleur). That will be necessary if I use one entry port for my KS lev integra dropper.
Pics explain it better:


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

That's good you have options to run your cables. I don't seem to recall any holes in my bottom bracket shell like those you show in your pictures. Either I didn't see the holes or they changed the insert. Good luck with your build, I'm sure you will be happy with the new bike.


----------



## Julianjulian (May 19, 2013)

Hi this could be a bit late, but I have had the 29er FS carbon frame built up for nearly 3 years, with a reverb stealth successfully installed. Easy to do, I'll attach a pic next post.
I have maed 3 Chinese framed bikes, 2 x 29ers FS and recently a 27.5 FS.
The Chinese have no clue when it comes to bearings, bushes and pivots, as all my frames came with poor fitting pivots and screws, so I built my own to ensure smooth and tight suspension systems. 
I've never had any issues with the actual carbon, but the 27.5" frame I ordered with a BB30 for use with my FSA 386 carbon 2 x 10 crank, did not have enough clearance on the chainstay to run my 42/27 chain ring option, so am running the smaller diameter 39T outer ring.
Also, I have got a couple of sets of light carbon wheels, and have major problems with all the freehubs breaking, as they are only a small 3-pawl drive. I have had to buy extra freehubs as spares. I have advised the supplier many times to put 6 pawls in the hubs, to halve the loading, as the freehub bosses are machined for 6 pawls. But, they just don't want to know, or don't understand.
Also, don't get a 28hole rear wheel, as they don't build them strong enough. I have had to replace at least 12 spokes.....


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Julian, thanks for posting your experiences.

I've built two, Chinese carbon 29er bikes, an IP-056 hardtail & IP-056 FS. My experiences have been much more positive than yours. I've not had any issues with the pivots or the bearings on my FS frame after approx 2 years of riding. All bearings are still working smoothly and nothing feels loose. Both bikes were built with SRAM 1x11 XX1, with those cranks, my biggest chainring would most likely be 34T.

I have one set of Chinese carbon wheels with Bitex hubs, possibly the Novatec hubs are not as strong. However, I have replaced one free hub when a piece of the aluminum body broke off inside around one of the pawls. Bitex replaced the free hub at no cost. Most Chinese carbon wheel sellers also offer an option of Hope Pro hubs which would most likely be a better choice, although I still believe DT Swiss makes a very reliable hub and would be my first pick if the vendor offered that brand of hubs with their wheels.

Even with the issues you are talking about, the carbon frames are such low cost it's still a very good value. I built my entire bike for about the same cost as most big brands sell just their frames.


----------



## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

Epic_Dude said:


> Julian, thanks for posting your experiences.
> 
> I've built two, Chinese carbon 29er bikes, an IP-056 hardtail & IP-056 FS. My experiences have been much more positive than yours. I've not had any issues with the pivots or the bearings on my FS frame after approx 2 years of riding. All bearings are still working smoothly and nothing feels loose. Both bikes were built with SRAM 1x11 XX1, with those cranks, my biggest chainring would most likely be 34T.
> 
> ...


Great info - I am getting my wife back into riding (kids = no riding) and after doing a lot of research on what to build for her, I think going with the 056 FS 27.5 frame is a great starting point. I put together a spreadsheet of what the build should cost, and with a pretty modest-but-very-solid build (XT 1x and probably just Stans alloy wheels, etc.) I'm at $2500 tops. With frames at $3499 pretty easily now, I'm excited to give it a shot.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Epic_Dude said:


> Julian, thanks for posting your experiences.
> 
> I've built two, Chinese carbon 29er bikes, an IP-056 hardtail & IP-056 FS. My experiences have been much more positive than yours. I've not had any issues with the pivots or the bearings on my FS frame after approx 2 years of riding. All bearings are still working smoothly and nothing feels loose. Both bikes were built with SRAM 1x11 XX1, with those cranks, my biggest chainring would most likely be 34T.
> 
> ...


I've built two also
A IP-036 dual with XX1, chinese carbon wheels with Novatec hubs
A IP-057 rigid hard tail with XX1 and DT swiss wheels

Both have been excellent over the last 2 years of riding them in Pisgah


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

El34 said:


> I've built two also
> A IP-036 dual with XX1, chinese carbon wheels with Novatec hubs
> A IP-057 rigid hard tail with XX1 and DT swiss wheels
> 
> Both have been excellent over the last 2 years of riding them in Pisgah


We're twins! I need to get up to Pisgah sometime.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes, come on up

Been doing mostly gravel/logging road/single track loops lately on our Chinese rigids
There's several of us up here that have them


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> We're twins! I need to get up to Pisgah sometime.


Maybe you two got the 036 and 057 frames same from Peter as well ? I purchased my 29 wheels from Peter when he was with Iplay, thru axle cyclocross frameset, my son's 26er frame and complete CS-RB01 road bike from Peter at his new venture Carbon Speed. Have to say, good quality products, great service and communication. My next order from him would be a wheelset for my CX frameset.

Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 7


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I got all my stuff from Peter when he was at XMI Play

IP-036 frame
IP-057 Frame
Carbon rigid fork for the IP-057 rigid hard tail
Carbon wheel set with 35mm rims for my off road IP-036
2 carbon seat post
1 carbon stem
1 carbon bar
4 carbon water bottle cages


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Yep, me too. All my carbon parts came from Peter when he was at Xmiplay. Now he has started his own company, Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd. Same products, same service.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

A buddy of mine has bought a bunch of stuff from Peter at his new business
A full carbon rigid bike with carbon wheels and road bike carbon wheels

I will only deal with Peter in the future at his new place

I have owned 4 Yeti's since 2001 and I have sold them all taking big losses

I am long done buying new bikes from bike shops


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## Bikrider (Mar 21, 2014)

He might get more new stuff than Iplay, the CS-041 SL frame, it seems Iplay doesn't offer this frame. I don't know if you guys view fat bike thread or not, Peter will have his own FS fat bike frame offering soon.


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## wardmtb (Aug 2, 2015)

Hi All!

Been lurking on this thread for a long time and I think I'm gonna build my first FS bike! (CS-036) Thinking of running 29x2.4 Ardent rear and a 27.5+ Chronicle front (when it comes out). Would the 2.4 fit in the rear? Also, could you fit a 180mm rotor at the back?

Thanks.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have about 73mm of width between the stays on mine
Better check the actual tire width because they vary

I run 180 mm rotor on the rear of my IP-036


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

I'm going to guess that you aren't really intending to run a 27.5 wheel on the front of a 29er specific frame. I guess 27.5 could work but why? If you want 27.5+, why not a Foes Mutz. Bucksaw, or a Turner King Kahn. I know they're more expensive. But I would be worried about the geometry.



wardmtb said:


> Hi All!
> 
> Been lurking on this thread for a long time and I think I'm gonna build my first FS bike! (CS-036) Thinking of running 29x2.4 Ardent rear and a 27.5+ Chronicle front (when it comes out). Would the 2.4 fit in the rear? Also, could you fit a 180mm rotor at the back?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## wardmtb (Aug 2, 2015)

Thanks a lot! 
Really appreciate the pics.


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## wardmtb (Aug 2, 2015)

I think the OD of a 27.5+ wheel is the same with a normal 29er so the geometry wouldn't change. Been riding a fat bike and really like the big tires but it gets tiring in a long ride. Looking for something in between 2-2.4 and 4 to 5 inch tires so mid fat is the way to go. 😊 if only they would make a 27.5+ fs chinese carbon frame...

But I really want to build one now so I guess a big volume 29er rear and a 27.5+ front would suffice. Like a fat front setup.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

CS-036 frame built up.
The non-drive BSA threads got contaminated with resin during production.
Needed lots of patience and sweat (wrecked BSA threads before) to clean up.
I mounted the Monarch with 2 needle bearings.
Tried different positions for the shock but this is the only adequate one.
Parts list:
Xtr trail brakes with 180 mm rotors.
X1 trigger 1x11 shifter
XTR M970 cranks with RF 32t NW chainring, Hope ceramic BB
XO1 rear derailler and cassette.
SDG seatpost and Formula Fx saddle.
- no KS Lev Integra because the frame has inner tubing for cable routing and I did'nt want to cut those out.
- no SP7-SD1 post saddle combo because the rear saddle-yoke-bolt was to short and front yoke came wider than the saddle edges and was rubbing against my inner thigh, caused by the slack seattube angle.
Rock Shox Sid XX 120mm and Monarch XX with full sprint lockout.
Light bicycle 35mm wheelset/ pillar spokes/ Novatec D772SB and D771SB hubs.
Vredestein Tires tubeless, front Black panther Extreme, rear Black panther X-track.
Neco headset.
weight 11,05kg.
First set-up with carbon seatpost and saddle 10,88kg.

































Missing Thru axle bolt.
















First ride on pavement:
- pedal bob was significant, turning the rebound knob full fast and upping the pressure in the shock to 170psi improved things, but I wished bob would be less obvious. Guess a firmer tune would be perfect. This effect got less notable on short off-road stretches though.
- Lost the Tru axle bolt and wass lucky I discovered the wheel coming loose, before wrecking the frame, axle was sticking out about 5 cm.
I've ordered a Shimano thru axle and the bolt will fit inside the frame cavity instead of the 'Chinese' bolt head.
+ Amazing off-road and coble stone riding, magic carpet feeling.
I had a Tallboy before, but always wanted more small bump compliance. This bike has it.
+ Lockout works excellent, pressing the button changes the bike into a sprinting machine.
+ No noises, very smooth suspension action.
+ Frame stiffness is OK (untill my rear axle came loose )

I'm looking forward to try the bike off-road, I expect the bike to excell on the downhill sections.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Did you use the tiny set screw on the DS dropout to hold the nut in place?


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Did you use the tiny set screw on the DS dropout to hold the nut in place?


Yes I did, but did'nt dare to overtighten that tiny screw.
Will use a longer one and mill out a small hole in the bolt, plus adding some locktite should make it fit and forget.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> First ride on pavement: - pedal bob was significant


The bike looks good

My Ip-036 with Fox float kashima has no noticeable bob when set to climb


----------



## Julianjulian (May 19, 2013)

Great build! I have had one for 3 years now, and have the Reverb Stealth routed successfully through the frame.
Nice frame for the money, though the shock pivot holes are starting to slog out, so will I will need to make a couple of oversize bushes.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Julianjulian said:


> Great build! I have had one for 3 years now, and have the Reverb Stealth routed successfully through the frame.
> Nice frame for the money, though the shock pivot holes are starting to slog out, so will I will need to make a couple of oversize bushes.


Check out RWC roller bearings for the frame shocks
I have them and I will never go back to shock bushings

Here is their web site link
ABOUT RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS


----------



## Julianjulian (May 19, 2013)

It's the 8mm bolt holes in the frame of the front and back pivots, not the shock pivot on the shaft. There is no room for bearings, as the 8mm bolts go through the 8mm holes in the frame pivot, which after a while will slog out. i had to make a 10mm bush x 4 with an 8mm for the bolts.
Hope that's clear... as mud LOL!


----------



## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Selling my ip-36 few month old, was a good project. i just moving to a 27.5 bike for a little.
Im locate in Dallas
Selling just the frame or 
frame/Shock 
Frame/shock/fork/post.
Size large 
Black edition rockshok monarch and rockshock sid 120mm
dropper post ks eten 100mm 
Steem and spacer not include


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I might be interested in the Rockshox SID 120mm fork.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

How much for the frame and frame shock?

I may know someone that is interested


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Anyone using the Monarch XX shock ? I'm curious if anyone had done any extra tunning on it.


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

charlesrg said:


> Anyone using the Monarch XX shock ? I'm curious if anyone had done any extra tunning on it.


I went for the XX (see my previous post on page 66 with the pics).
Also installed Enduro needle bearings on each side.
I guess, the new bearings made the suspension very compliant from the beginning.

I started with 30% sag @ 170psi and experienced lots of pedal bobbing during the first ride.
Also the shock ran through 3/4 of its travel going over some bumbs on the testride on pavement to mild off-road.

I went to 230psi, just to get to 20% sag. (I weigh about 180 pounds)
Pedalbob is less obvious now.
I'm using the lock-out very often, certainly on pavement and again on smooth gravel roads.

My initial thinking was to send the shock in to have more platform build in it.
But I'm afraid I might lose some of the awesome small bump compliance and the capabilty of the suspension to iron out rough terrain the way it does now.
Or, am I wrong here?

I'm going to do some more riding before I decide.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Dikkie, my weight is close to yours 178lbs, I'm running on a lower pressure, about 160psi. I also experience it traveling close to bottom on small jumps, but also afraid of running on high pressure and loosing grip on loose and root sections.
Where did you wanted to send the fork to have it tuned ? I wish I could go to a place ride and have an specialist tune instead of shipping and trying and shipping again. Or if I could figure out the options I could tune little by little. I would need to understand better how it works.

2015_rockshox_spc_rev_a.pdf
Check on page 84 there is a list of other air can's and tune assemblies.

If you have any other info to share it would be welcome.



Dikkie said:


> I went for the XX (see my previous post on page 66 with the pics).
> Also installed Enduro needle bearings on each side.
> I guess, the new bearings made the suspension very compliant from the beginning.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gluddy (Mar 4, 2013)

Hi all,

Been looking for a full-suspension 29er for a while now, and am seriously considering the DSK-098. Does anyone know for sure if you can run and internally-routed dropper post on that frame? Maybe it can be run through the hole for the rear shock lever and into the frame? I don't use a rear shock remote lever anyways. What about the 036?

Also, there aren't many 31.6 dropper posts out there. Is it possible to purchase a shim to drop the post diameter down to 30.9. Much more 30.9 dropper posts available, especially internally routed.

I really like the internal cable routing on the 098, but it will suck if I have to run an externally routed dropper post on that thing. 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

Gluddy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Been looking for a full-suspension 29er for a while now, and am seriously considering the DSK-098. Does anyone know for sure if you can run and internally-routed dropper post on that frame? Maybe it can be run through the hole for the rear shock lever and into the frame? I don't use a rear shock remote lever anyways. What about the 036?
> 
> ...


Yes you can use a 30.9 post with a shim, that is exactly what Ihave done with my build that I am just now finishing up.


----------



## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Angel212 said:


> Selling my ip-36 few month old, was a good project. i just moving to a 27.5 bike for a little.
> Im locate in Dallas
> Selling just the frame or
> frame/Shock
> ...


I change my mind after several low baller offers i prefer keep the frame. Do u think is possible to install 27,5 wheels on that frame . i have a extra set and would like to know if i can assembly a bike with some 27 parts


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Julianjulian said:


> Great build! I have had one for 3 years now, and have the Reverb Stealth routed successfully through the frame.
> Nice frame for the money, though the shock pivot holes are starting to slog out, so will I will need to make a couple of oversize bushes.


Hi,
Did your frame also have the inside tubing to guide the cables trough? If so did you cut them out?


----------



## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

Hey guys Here is the frame with LB wide rim 27.5, maxis arden rear and high roller.


----------



## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Angel212 said:


> Hey guys Here is the frame with LB wide rim 27.5, maxis arden rear and high roller.


Looks good but the BB height will be too low with normal 27.5 tires. You need 3" tires to reach the same wheel diameter as with standard 29er wheels. Sorry to damp your enthusiasm.


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## Angel212 (Jun 28, 2014)

May be u right, i check the bb height from the center to ground is 12.5 inch, full compresse shock change to 10, 1/4 inch. I check my niner rip9 and bb to ground is 14 and on my giant trance 27.5 is 12.5 ( Same, i dont check a full compress shock).
Btw all this number is using a 29 fork 120 mm , rockshox sid


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Did anybody had a chance to draw an IP-036 in Bikecad ? (bikecad.ca) that would make it really easy to try wheels and check clearance.


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys have to pay for customs taxes in the USA.
I've searched here in Europe (Belgium) for these duties and found out that they add customs duties 4.7%, so for example: €1000 (total invoice value, shipping included) becomes €1047.
Than VAT added +21% €1266,87
clearance costs €12
Makes €1278,87
Extra transport and costs?

On a total of $1050,40 I had to pay about $400, I don't know where the extra amount came from, the dark zone took over I guess.
The box had been opened and they probably liked what they saw.


----------



## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Dikkie said:


> Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys have to pay for customs taxes in the USA.
> I've searched here in Europe (Belgium) for these duties and found out that they add customs duties 4.7%, so for example: €1000 (total invoice value, shipping included) becomes €1047.
> Than VAT added +21% €1266,87
> clearance costs €12
> ...


Well, you can ask a seller to declare it at any value you want.
Usually for huge boxes like wheelset $100 works ok. Because shipping itself is around $50-70 and you cannot fool a postman on this.

If they ask for a paper invoice then it literally means a paper with some numbers. So go to a completely Chinese website like taobao.com, find something similar and print it out. Change numbers if needed. If any questions asked say a Chinese friend bought it for you so it's so cheap.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I paid nothing on two shipments
A carbon frame and a bunch of parts and 
a couple months later a carbon wheel set

Both shipments were sent via the postal system and no fees paid

I had one of my suppliers send me a box of stuff via UPS one time and they wanted a couple hundred dollars for handling the shipment. I learned my lesson on that and always request that everything gets shipped via China Post


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I live in the US and have received three shipments of carbon parts (frames, wheels, etc). No additional taxes paid. The shipment cleared customs without issue. The shipments were sent via China post then handed off to USPS. Took about 7-10 days for the shipments to arrive.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on one of these frames and I had a couple of questions I'm hoping the collective group here might have some experience with. 

1) The numbers on the 19" frame seem close to my 20" ltk-023 hardtail. Does that seem about right to most? 

2) has anyone found a rear shock setup/tune that works w/o having to run lockouts? I plan to use it as a racy xc type ride. In general I'd like to run something like fox ctd in climb or trail most all the time. 

On my hardtail I run my talas in 95mm trail most all the time except for fireroad climbs. 

Thanks!


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

My fox float does not lockout even when you have it set to climb

It is just stiffer than the trail or descend setting

It does not bob at all on my 036 frame

I leave it on climb until I descend. I hardly ever use the middle trail setting


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

El34 said:


> My fox float does not lockout even when you have it set to climb


Which model and year fox shock are you running? Off the shelf?

Thanks!


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Float CTD Kashima


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

I also have a 2014 FOX Float CTD, specifically the CTD BV (Fox Float CTD Boost Valve Trail Adjust shock review - BikeRadar USA). Only mine has the remote lock. I find myself using all three modes but if you just left in Trail mode and firmed up the air spring with some additional pressure, you might be happy with not having to mess with it during your ride.

Checking the Fox website, looks like they now call the shock a Fox Float DPS. Open, Med, and firm setting instead of Climb-Trail-Descend. Not sure if I would know the difference while riding.

The fox shock does move a little in Climb mode but you can't feel it, you only know if you look down and watch the pivot move very slightly while moving. The shock does not lock out, instead each setting just firms up the damping.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks! Thats the info i was looking for. Will make it easier keeping up with the pack of epic s-works


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## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Anyone around 6' and ride the 19" 36? What's your stem length? How's the reach? What's your seatpost height? How does it handle?


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Are there any chinese full suspension 29ers that offer chainstays under 440mm on a 29er?


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Anyone seen or have experience with this frame? It has a dw link style suspension. I haven't been on this thread in a long time. Sorry if it's old news.

190*50mm Rear Shox 15.5",17.5",19",21" Full Carbon Mountain MTB 29er Full Suspension Bike Frames-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Lenny7 said:


> Anyone seen or have experience with this frame? It has a dw link style suspension. I haven't been on this thread in a long time. Sorry if it's old news.
> 
> 190*50mm Rear Shox 15.5",17.5",19",21" Full Carbon Mountain MTB 29er Full Suspension Bike Frames-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


Actually, the linkage is a simple single pivot (no pivots between main pivot and rear axle), with a floating shock mount, which actually doesn't do a lot, except change the shock-rate.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

two-one said:


> Actually, the linkage is a simple single pivot (no pivots between main pivot and rear axle), with a floating shock mount, which actually doesn't do a lot, except change the shock-rate.


Got it. I'm fairly remedial when it comes to suspension systems but now comparing it to my Anthem I see the difference.


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

*IP-098 for sale with Rear Shock and extras*

I recently purchased this IP-098 Frame at the end of May this year. I didn't get it built till the end of August beginning of September, after riding it on the weekends I have found out that it just doesn't fit my riding style, I like to get the wheels off the ground and am not afraid to rail through the rock gardens, I was hoping this frame could handle more of an all mountain/enduro style of riding but it just didn't live up to what i hoped it would. I took a chance, My LOSS YOUR GAIN. Included in this sale is this Carbon Frame, Rochshox Monarch Debonair rear shock (200x50), BB30 Bottom Bracket, Cane-Creek Headset, extra dropout and the 12x142 rear axle. (Max rear disc size is 170mm) I bought the frame from Bert. Here is what I ordered: IP-098, BB30, size 17 (Medium), UD GLOSSY, 12x142 , with an extra dropout. Any questions please feel free to ask. The bike as you see it built weighs around 25.5 pounds. I have had some rear tire rub during one of my rides that happened with the rear shock pressure set to low. Please feel free to ask any questions via email and Thank you for looking. Asking $1000


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Wrong Spot, see the big red letters at the top CLASSIFIEDS.


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

*Hoping your friend might be interested in this also*

I recently purchased this IP-098 Frame at the end of May this year. I didn't get it built till the end of August beginning of September, after riding it on the weekends I have found out that it just doesn't fit my riding style, My LOSS YOUR GAIN. Included with the Frame is a Rochshox Monarch Debonair rear shock (200x50), BB30 Bottom Bracket, Cane-Creek Headset, extra dropout and the 12x142 rear axle. (Max rear disc size is 170mm).


----------



## Tony Halik (Oct 24, 2015)

Hey,
I have a question to people, who has chinese carbon full suspension frame: do they have a geometry like on descriptions, I mean with head tube angle 70 degrees or more?
Is there a any chinese carbon frame, with head tube angle more in all mountain/enduro style, like 66-68 degrees?
I have chinese cyclocross carbon frame and it is absolutely great, I want to change my aluminium 26" full suspension frame (spec sx-trail) to 29er full suspension carbon frame, but I'm looking only something with relaxed head tube angle...


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

Tony,
I was worried about the head tube angle myself, I put a 140mm fork on this and the 70 degree head tube angle was never an issue and I love to ride steep, technical descents. With a 140 on the front it put the HTA at around 68.5 I think which is right around the same as my Giant Trance X29er.


----------



## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

What's the difference between the IP-036 and the IP-098?


----------



## Tony Halik (Oct 24, 2015)

treadsidedown said:


> Tony,
> I was worried about the head tube angle myself, I put a 140mm fork on this and the 70 degree head tube angle was never an issue and I love to ride steep, technical descents. With a 140 on the front it put the HTA at around 68.5 I think which is right around the same as my Giant Trance X29er.


Problem is, I had a XC full suspension bike with larger than stock fork, with about 69 head angle and 100mm travel, then i changed it to specialized sx-trail with head angle 66, and travel 150mm, and I for sure want something more like sx-trail, but with bigger 29er wheel, and a bit lighter. (also I don't need so much travel, 120mm would be ok)
Also, putting higher fork than normal make some issues, especially when you often riding uphill.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a 140mm float 29 34mm on my IP-036
I love it

I removed the plastic spacer in my fork 
It was 120mm, now it's 140mm
Pretty simple mod that is explained on the Fox web site


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

*No issues climbing*



Tony Halik said:


> Problem is, I had a XC full suspension bike with larger than stock fork, with about 69 head angle and 100mm travel, then i changed it to specialized sx-trail with head angle 66, and travel 150mm, and I for sure want something more like sx-trail, but with bigger 29er wheel, and a bit lighter. (also I don't need so much travel, 120mm would be ok)
> Also, putting higher fork than normal make some issues, especially when you often riding uphill.


Tony, I had no issues climbing, my rides are normally 20-30 miles and the climbing is normally around 2500-4500 ft. but not all riders are the same, either way this frame rides great, it's light and the internal routing on it adds to the nice clean look. it is just more suited for more cross country riding than an all around bike that I need. I vary from the jump park to shuttling runs....


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

The IP-098s internal routing is designed better and the travel is made around a 120mm platform and I may be speaking out of turn but I think the 036 is based around 100mm. Outside of the obvious looks difference.


----------



## treadsidedown (Sep 15, 2015)

Having the 140 on the front is perfect IMHO.... good choice


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Can any one tell me which version of the 142x12 thru axle the AC-036 frame uses?
Syntace, Shimano E thru, Specialized, DTSwiss, maxle etc...confusing!!

I have a frame on its way and the rear thru axle is the only piece left to order. i want to build it asap before it starts snowing here.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have two rear axles on two wheel sets
One is a DT swiss 350 wheel set with XX1 cassette adapter 
One is a Novatec D771/D772 XX1 wheel set

One axle is a Shimano AX75 and I don't know the brand on the other axle
I bought a generic axle on Amazon

Both are 142mm x 12mm axles
But the threads on each axle are different

Both axles fit my IP-036 frame but the nuts for each axle have to be swapped


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

if you had to guess, which of these extralight through axles do you think would fit?....

Black Lock

if they dont have that tapered shoulder at the non-threaded end like the Syntace version then do you think the shimano E-thru version would fit?


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I would get the Shimano AX75 like EL34 said, the set screw should grab it. I've seen a DT come loose on a trail, it wasn't mine so I don't know if it was set properly, but I saw it coming loose.
I never had a problem with the Shimano AX75 coming loose.


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

I was hoping to get an Extralite or something similar without the quick realease lever just to save some weight and because i dont mind using an alen key to remove the rear wheel.

but i guess if you guys are saying the Shimano one fits then it must be the Shimano E-through 142x12 that fits the frame and not the Syntace version as i had suspected. 

Thanks for the help guys...hope to have this build up in a couple weeks...just hope the snow holds off!


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

uuuhh...i just looked up the Shimano AX75 trhu axle. it looks like it has a nut that screws onto the threaded end....

does the frame not come with a threaded drop out for the threaded end of the axle to screw into? 

im new to mountain bikes so forgive me if I'm asking silly questions. just don't want to order a thru axle that wont fit and i cant get them locally.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The drop out does not have threads on the 036 frames

The thru axle needs to have a nut

As long as the axle you are buying has a separate nut on the end, you should be good to go


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

thanks El34! that sorta clarifies things then... none of the 142x12 thru axles ive seen for sale online have nuts on the end. Gotta love the bike industry for making a standard and then making a tone of different customisations to it. 

i'll keep looking. 

jsut read your build report thread. good stuff! thanks for contributing all the info!


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

*Axle nut tip:*

Warning, there are different types of axle nuts and different threads

Get an axle nut that looks like the one in my picture

There's a tiny set screw on the 036 dropout that keeps the nut from falling out when you unscrew the axle.

The axle nut has a ridge on the left edge and the set screw goes into one of the grooves on the axle nut.

The nut cannot fall out because the ridge hits up against the set screw

You screw down the set screw just enough to keep the axle nut from falling out. You don't crank the set screw down tight because it may prevent the nut from being in the proper position to align with the axle threads.

You set which groove to use on the axle nut after you decide where you like your axle lever positioned when you have the axle tightened down.

So now your axle nut always stays put if you remove the axle and it is always aligned to the same spot you want it when you tighten down the wheel.


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

I see, thanks for the the tip!! I've been going crazy for the last few days trying to figure out this last piece of the puzzle. Until tonight i didn't even know they (i) needed a separate screw. I thought the thru axle a screwed into the drop out.

I guess its safe to say i can use the Extralite shimano E-Thru axle...any idea if those nuts are sold separately? ....or what they might be called so i can search for them?

thanks again

Edit: i found one!! 
https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Nut-M12-for-Thru-Axle-SM-AX75-E-Thru-12-x-142-mm-5g


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The nut probably comes with the axles?

The dropouts on the 036 can be changed out to a few different types
You get those extra dropouts with the frame

You can see in my pic that the dropout has some screws to release it from the frame


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

its possible the nuts come with the axles but none of them (them being: Extralite, Carbon Ti or Shift Up) state that they come with nuts. Worst case scenario i spend an extra 5euro and have a spare. 

You've saved me from going insane EL34! :thumbsup:
Coming from road bike background i had no idea about all the different standards and measurements used in the MTB worlds. its very confusing. And trying to get a straight answer about the thru axle standards and compatibility was by no means straight forward...i'd probably be scratching my head and wasting another 2 weeks researching if you hadn't cleared things up for me.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

If you have to buy a nut and and axle separate, make sure the threads are the same on both.

My Shimano axle was on another bike and so I already had that axle and nut on hand
The generic axle I bought on Amazon came with a nut
Both nuts have different threads and so the axles and nuts are not interchangeable


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

yeah thanks.the different threads were what made me realise there were different, non compatible versions of the same "standard" available. 

I'll order Shimano E-Thru axle by Carbon Ti (becasue theyre in stock at R2 bike) and an original shomano nut becasue theyre cheap.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Don't buy the 'chinese' axle from Xiamen carbon speed with the CS-036 frame. I ordered one to come along but the nut was to wide to fit inside the recess of the rear triangle dropout.
I lost that nut on the first ride.
Ordered a Shimano SLX axle with nut and all is fine now.


----------



## ocorlaiti (Apr 22, 2013)

*My Miracle Carbon Frame*

Hi guys, this is my first post here.

I reead a lot in this forum to make a decision to build my chinese carbon bike. So I decided to build an Miracle Carbon 29er.

Setup:

Frame Miracle FM036
Rockshox Reba RL - 100mm
Drivetrain - SRAM GX 11S - (Crankset XX1 Carbon)
Brakes - SRAM Guide
Handlebar/Stem/Seatpost - Bontrager XXL (chinese)
Saddle Prologo ZERO
Novatec D771 Hubs / DT Swiss Campion Spoke / Everest XC Rim
Tires Continental Race Sport (X King/Race King)
Rear Shock (waiting for delivery)

What do you guys think about my setup?


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice build. I'm sure you will be shortening that front brake line, other than that, everything looks like it's coming together for you.


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## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

*Where did you buy your shock bolts for your full suspension chinese build?>*

Hey everyone, I'm looking for some help on locating shock bolts for the full suspension 36. Doug has been helping me with my build and he said he used 8mm x 35mm bolts but he had some leftover from another bike. He also pointed me to these...
M6 8 29 33 45 50 56 70 78mm Bike Bicycle Shock Absorbers Lock Bolts Screw Nut | eBay

but the 8mm x 35mm size isn't there. Any suggestions? Where did you find yours? Thanks!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

They look like this on my 036 frame
This one came off a Yeti that I parted out

35mm shoulder x 8mm diameter
I did a web search and came up blank

The rear shock mount has a recessed screw head area and so I don't think you can use a bolt with a nut

The front shock bolt is exposed and you could probably use a bolt that uses a nut on one end.

How come it is so hard to locate shock mount bolts like the one in my pic?


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## gonzoo (Nov 5, 2015)

im 178 cm - 5'10. Should i choose cs-036 / ip-036 frame in size 19 or 17.5 ?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Epic_Dude said:


> I also have a 2014 FOX Float CTD, specifically the CTD BV (Fox Float CTD Boost Valve Trail Adjust shock review - BikeRadar USA). Only mine has the remote lock. I find myself using all three modes but if you just left in Trail mode and firmed up the air spring with some additional pressure, you might be happy with not having to mess with it during your ride.
> 
> Checking the Fox website, looks like they now call the shock a Fox Float DPS. Open, Med, and firm setting instead of Climb-Trail-Descend. Not sure if I would know the difference while riding.
> 
> The fox shock does move a little in Climb mode but you can't feel it, you only know if you look down and watch the pivot move very slightly while moving. The shock does not lock out, instead each setting just firms up the damping.


I ended up buying the Fox DPS shock which apparently has an almost complete lockout because of the dual piston design. So firm is more firm than previous climb mode. Unfortunately the shock only comes M/M tune when purchased aftermarket. I decided to try it stock first before sending it in for a tune, if it needs to switch to H/H.

Just waiting for frame and parts to show up now...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

gonzoo said:


> im 178 cm - 5'10. Should i choose cs-036 / ip-036 frame in size 19 or 17.5 ?


I'd recommend a 19" frame for you. I'm only about 1" taller and a 19" works well for me.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Is there any functional difference in the rear pivot(by the rear axle) on these two frames? Good, bad indifferent? Sorry, it wouldn't let me copy the pics so here's the links.
TitanX 29er SL MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com

Titan 29er SL MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

Lenny7 said:


> Is there any functional difference in the rear pivot(by the rear axle) on these two frames? Good, bad indifferent? Sorry, it wouldn't let me copy the pics so here's the links.
> TitanX 29er SL MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com
> 
> Titan 29er SL MTB Frame | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


The TitanX has a Horst Link rear. This is what Specialized bikes uses.

The other frame has a Faux Horst Link rear. This is what all the other frame makers would uses as they did not want to pay a patent fee to Specialized. Kona and Jamis are two that come to mind.

The Horst Link rear patent is now open. So you will start seeing more of this design.

I have only ridden Horst Link frames (Specialized, Titus, Asylum, and Hammerhead) because I have read it is the better of the two designs. I do not have a direct comparison two both.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

^Thank you.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I just ordered my IP-036 and I was going to order the RWC needle bearings. Do I need the 22.2 for the front and rear or is one a different size? Seems like I saw one was 22.7 or something like that?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I can't remember what I ordered

I had to measure the openings on the frame to make sure I got the correct ones

Chris at RWC was very helpful
Their web site was a bit confusing


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I just received my frame last night from Peter. Seems like measurements vary from frame to frame based on searching this thread. My front appears to be 21.8 and the Rear is 22.2. I ordered my shock with 22.2 for both. It should be arriving today; so I'll test fit it tonight and see if I have to adjust.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Water Bottle Question: Has anyone been able to mount a second bottle anywhere on the frame? Sometimes I do not want a pack (racing) and need to carry two bottles.

thanks!


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

ljracer said:


> I just received my frame last night from Peter. Seems like measurements vary from frame to frame based on searching this thread. My front appears to be 21.8 and the Rear is 22.2. I ordered my shock with 22.2 for both. It should be arriving today; so I'll test fit it tonight and see if I have to adjust.


Thanks, I would be interested in the results.


ljracer said:


> Water Bottle Question: Has anyone been able to mount a second bottle anywhere on the frame? Sometimes I do not want a pack (racing) and need to carry two bottles.
> 
> thanks!


I've tried various things on various frames and none really worked very well. One in the jersey was the most functional place.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I would definately measure the frame for the RWC bearings to make sure you get the correct lengths

I don't see any other way to add another bottle to the frame itself
I had a Yeti that had one set of mounts under the down tube and that sucked


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

gonzoo said:


> im 178 cm - 5'10. Should i choose cs-036 / ip-036 frame in size 19 or 17.5 ?


I'd say 17.5

i'm 5'8 and had the 17.5 and it never felt chuckable in my racy xc set-up . Went for the 15.5 and it was spot on. Long seat tube ,lots of standover, total control!

On pages 7 and 11 you can see pictures of bikes owned by 5'10 riders who went for 17.5 i.e vwsurfbum and Loal.

Good luck


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Hmmm... Very interesting. I'm 5.7 - 5.8 with a 29-30 inseam. Was almost certain I should get the 17.5. Only concern when compared with my current gig is standover height is 8.5 mm (0.0393701 inches) higher on the CS-036.

You're suggesting 15.5 for my height?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Yep,

pictures of my 15.5 ride on page 41. If i remember right this frame dimensions and look is 95% identical to a Scott Spark in size small which I sat on, so you could give that a go also.


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thank you for pics and advice. Not sure about the 15.5. Bike looks tiny. Kind of used to a bigger bike. But maybe I've been wrong all along. I'm not into jumping or getting rad. Just like to run over stuff and I let the bike do most of the work. Appreciate the help!!


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

I would note, however, that my bike (2014 Scott Genius) felt unwieldy until I turned the chip into the LOW position. That hump on the Chiner's top tube is a bit concerning...


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

polo7 said:


> Thank you for pics and advice. Not sure about the 15.5. Bike looks tiny. Kind of used to a bigger bike. But maybe I've been wrong all along. I'm not into jumping or getting rad. Just like to run over stuff and I let the bike do most of the work. Appreciate the help!!


Hey,

I can barely jump rope, but sometimes you need to feel you can push a bike into corners or let the suspension do the work under you going downhill, i was simply too far stretched on a 17.5. I think these sizes should be rounded up as 15.5 sounds tiny but its really a 16 inch frame, other bikes i've owned are small Giant NRS, small Giant OCR all ok!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

polo7 said:


> Hmmm... Very interesting. I'm 5.7 - 5.8 with a 29-30 inseam. Was almost certain I should get the 17.5. Only concern when compared with my current gig is standover height is 8.5 mm (0.0393701 inches) higher on the CS-036.
> 
> You're suggesting 15.5 for my height?


I am 5' 8" ish with a 30 inch inseam
I ride a 17.5 inch 036 frome
Fits me perfect
Any smaller and the cockpit might be way too cramped
I would have to get a setback seatpost and a longer stem in order to compensate


----------



## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thank you for all the advice.


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Will bring all components from my bike to the CS-036 frame. How do I fit my BB92 Shimano XT FC-M782 Hollowtech 2 crankset into the BSA frame?


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

You need a bsa bottom bracket. Cranks should fit fine.


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thank you ljracer!


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm looking at the DT Swiss m212 or the x313 for my rear shock. The difference is the m212 has open and closed the x313 has a third setting which is kind of an in between setting for more efficiency hammering on smooth-ish trails. What would you recommend with the ip-036? I'm more of an endurance "racer."


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

22.2 front and rear.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

polo7 said:


> Will bring all components from my bike to the CS-036 frame. How do I fit my BB92 Shimano XT FC-M782 Hollowtech 2 crankset into the BSA frame?


There is no such thing as a BB92 crankset.

You have a Shimano Hollowtech crank, which will work with BB92 (pressfit) or standard, threaded BSA bottom brackets.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Deleted


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

bushcat said:


> Anyone around 6' and ride the 19" 36? What's your stem length? How's the reach? What's your seatpost height? How does it handle?


I'm 6 foot and have a 19 on order. I have all the same questions! Near to mountain bikes that have no idea what size stem I need or what size dropper post or even how wide my bars should be


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thought I knew the standover height, but confused now even after looking at geometry chart. Anyone knows this?


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## polo7 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thank you for the correction Le Duke. These are all bottom bracket standards, not cranksets' standards. Do you recommend a BSA bottom bracket that would allow my cranks to go into the BSA frame?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

polo7 said:


> Thank you for the correction Le Duke. These are all bottom bracket standards, not cranksets' standards. Do you recommend a BSA bottom bracket that would allow my cranks to go into the BSA frame?


A standard, threaded Shimano (or Chris King, etc) bottom bracket will work just fine.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Bsa is easy to maintain and creaks way less than bb30 and pf30.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Just about 500km on the CS-036 and rear damper bearing already developed play.
(Enduro needle roller bearing)
I Changed it against an RWC bearing kit.
Perhaps the firm Monarch XX lockout makes the bearing wear faster.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

RWC gave me 3 different shaft sizes
- , + and ++
After riding a while the rear shock mount rollers get pushed outward a bit from all the force

I just swapped out for the next size larger shaft which was ++


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

All built up! Just need a thru axle to show up in the mail so I can ride it.

Then rebuilding the dtswiss 350 hubs with wtb i29s when the spokes arrive.

Easiest build ever. Even easier than my hardtails. Drive train shifts perfect on first try. 2x10.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Looks good


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I got impatient and swapped the 135x10 dropouts so I could give it a shakedown ride. 

Oh man I should have done this a long time ago. With the fox dps in climb mode it feels like my hard tail. In trail mode with an off the shelf tune it rides and climbs very well. 

No creaks or squeaks or any frame play. Peter sold me a nice frame!!

19" is spot on for me as well. 

Can't wait to give it real ride! 


Thanks to everyone in this thread who contributed tons of helpful info.


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

I have a question about the shock mount bolts for the AC-036 frame (just arrived form ICAN yesterday). ive built lots of road bikes before but never played with suspension before...

the two bolts i recieved have different length sleeved (female) bolts, 35mm and 40mm long, and a male (normal) bolts which thread in to the sleeved bolts to tighten them up. 

the 40mm sleeved bolt is seeming too long and sticks out the other side of the frame so that when i tighten the bolts together and screw the male bolt in all the way i can then slide the whole bolt assemble left and right 5mm by hand...if you know what i mean. I've attached pics to help.

same thing happens when i install the 40mm sleeved bolt in the lower (rear) shock mount too except you cant see it there as the bolt heads are recessed into their little housings in the end of the suspension arm. 

is this 4mm side to side free play of the bolt ok? should i make a space/washers to take up the slack? or should i buy a shorter bolt?

Also, the shorter bolt is 2mm shorter than the width of the frame mounts where these bolts go through so it sits short about 2mm. So when i tighten the male bolt into it the head of the male bolt contacts the frame (looks like there is metal inserts in the carbon where these bolts are). So there will be some compression when i tighten the bolt...is this normal?

thanks for the help


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

They should be shoulder bolts with 35mm shoulders 
Like this


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Awesome! thanks EL34. i didnt know what the type of bolt was called so wasnt having any luck finding them.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I looked all over the web to try and find them for another guy here
No luck at all

I got mine from a Yeti SB95 that I parted out

I don't understand why they are so hard to find
You would think that Shock companies like Fox and Rock Shox would sell them to go along with their shocks

There is a guy on Ebay that has a bunch of different lengths, but he does not have a 35mm length.
The closest he had was 33mm


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I didnt expect my frame to come with them. So i ordered a 33 and 39 from the ebay guy. I figured i could always cut down the shoulder of the 39 if I had too. But ended up not needing them. The 33 would probably work too but just have a hair less shoulder bolt sunk in.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The problem I see with the 33mm is that you want the bolts tight but you should not be compressing the frame mounts.

The shoulder bolt should go through the frame and be flush with the frame surface on the other side.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

El34 said:


> The problem I see with the 33mm is that you want the bolts tight but you should not be compressing the frame mounts.
> 
> The shoulder bolt should go through the frame and be flush with the frame surface on the other side.


I disagree with that. The shoulder bolt should never be able to bottom out. You are clamping the shock mounting hardware and that clamping force should bare the weight of all suspension forces. If it didn't, the holes in the frame would elongate and the frame would be bordering on unserviceable.

The only way you'd be clamping the frame mounts is if the shock hardware was too small ie 21.85 on a 22.2 frame. Correctly sized hardware is a firm fit.

I'd say that if you're using a shoulder bolt that goes all the way to the other side, you are not able to clamp the shock mount hard enough and should get rid of it as soon as possible.

It's hard to believe that this frame has been around so long and still can't be supplied with the correct mounting hardware and that it is so hard to find.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

It's not exactly flush. 
You use two very thin shim washers that are only a few thousands thick
See my picture below


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Speaking of shock bolts, is there a torque spec for shock mount bolts to keep you from cranking down too hard or not hard enough?


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## jet9rdopilot (Nov 10, 2012)

There are various web sites that use can use stand torque on the bolts. Need a tread gauge to tell you the tread pitch. I find that mm is difficult to determine, then they have half sizes.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Lenny7 said:


> Speaking of shock bolts, is there a torque spec for shock mount bolts to keep you from cranking down too hard or not hard enough?


I don't really follow torque specs
I just tighten them down so they do not come loose


----------



## jet9rdopilot (Nov 10, 2012)

Oh you have a calibrated arm? Crank it down, gorilla torque. Pre-loading your pivots with stress. Bolts, screws, nuts have a torque for a reason. I work in the aerospace business, do not do it right, allot of people die. Buy a torque wrench and do it right.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

LOL, ok. 
Been building bikes from scratch since 1975
I'll run right out and get one


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Ive found Titanium shoulder bolts at Toronto Cycles....Titanium Bicycle Frames, Titanium Shock Bolt, Titanium Quill Bolts

the M8x50mm has a 34mm long shoulder. im assuming that some lateral compression is ok(?) as the shorter bolt i got with my frame set is about 2mm shorter than the outside-outside distance of the shock mounting frame tabs, and i have a tiny bit of free play and the other bolt which has a shoulder that sticks out the other side by about 4mm - so im guessing that too long isn't optimal as the male bolt doesnt butt up against the frame tab but rather just butts up against the end of the shoulder of the female bolt.
but the bolts we get with the frame originally are sex bolts (aka Chicago bolts or Binding Posts).

thoughts?

sex bolts seem difficult to find with the correct head and allen key fitting. I still havent found them in 8mm diameter shoulder (5/16") with an allen key head....and available online. need to recheck ebay still though.


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

mr4fox said:


> Ive found Titanium shoulder bolts at Toronto Cycles....Titanium Bicycle Frames, Titanium Shock Bolt, Titanium Quill Bolts
> 
> the M8x50mm has a 34mm long shoulder. im assuming that some lateral compression is ok(?) as the shorter bolt i got with my frame set is about 2mm shorter than the outside-outside distance of the shock mounting frame tabs, and i have a tiny bit of free play and the other bolt which has a shoulder that sticks out the other side by about 4mm - so im guessing that too long isn't optimal as the male bolt doesnt butt up against the frame tab but rather just butts up against the end of the shoulder of the female bolt.
> but the bolts we get with the frame originally are sex bolts (aka Chicago bolts or Binding Posts).
> ...


The frame I got from Peter came with the correct shock mounting bolts, that sucks yours don't fit. This is the only eBay auction Doug and I found that had bolts similar.

M6 8 29 33 45 50 56 70 78mm Bike Bicycle Shock Absorbers Lock Bolts Screw Nut | eBay


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, that's the Ebay guy I mentioned up above

The closest he has is 33mm


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

The rear brake routing on my Giant Anthem looking quite a bit shorter than on the 036. Anthem goes on top of the downtube and over the BB. The 036 goes under the downtube and under the BB. Does anyone remember what they cut their rear brake hose down to? I'm wondering if I'm gonna need to lengthen my brake hose.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The rear brake on my 036 frame goes through the frame and comes out below the BB.

I don't remember the exact length, but the line had to be cut to route it.


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

My brake came from a Pivot Les hardtail with 71cm bars.
Barwidth on the 036 is 66cm.
I used the port on the right side of the upper tube to enter the brake line and so it exits on the left and goes over the BB, I guess this is the shortest routing.
The cable length was just ok.
I put the shifter cable through the left port and under the BB.
Routing under the downtube is used for my dropper post.
some pics:


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice job Dikkie!


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

El34 said:


> The rear brake on my 036 frame goes through the frame and comes out below the BB.
> 
> I don't remember the exact length, but the line had to be cut to route it.





Dikkie said:


> My brake came from a Pivot Les hardtail with 71cm bars.
> Barwidth on the 036 is 66cm.
> I used the port on the right side of the upper tube to enter the brake line and so it exits on the left and goes over the BB, I guess this is the shortest routing.
> The cable length was just ok.
> ...


Thanks guys. I'm going under the downtube on the outside. I don't want to mess with the mess every time I want to take my brakes off and move them around to different bikes, which I do too much.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

I also ran my rear brake hose externally under the down tube and the rear derailleur cable internally in the down tube...it jsut seemed easier at the time than disconnecting the brake hose as at that point i had never shortened or bled hydraulic hoses before. 

Is there any advantage/disadvantage to doing it one way or the other?


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

mr4fox said:


> Is there any advantage/disadvantage to doing it one way or the other?


Just way cleaner looking to me and easier to wash the bike frame

I hate cables on the outside of the frame tubes after seeing how nice my 036 looks all internally routed
I have a buddy who has a carbon Tall boy and it has all the cables on the outside of the frame. It looks like a big mess to me personally

As far as brake hose lengths go, I don't ever measure. I run the tubing from the caliper forward. Then decide on the correct length by rotating the bars.

Leaving just enough hose so that the hose does not get yanked when the bars are turned all the way one way or the other.


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

For people looking for a back axle for the 36, this worked for me. Fast shipping from the seller too. 
ICAN Mountain Bike Alloy Thru Axle 12x142mm Rear Skewer
Ican Mountain Bike Alloy thru Axle 12x142mm Rear Skewer | eBay


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

mr4fox said:


> I also ran my rear brake hose externally under the down tube and the rear derailleur cable internally in the down tube...it jsut seemed easier at the time than disconnecting the brake hose as at that point i had never shortened or bled hydraulic hoses before.
> 
> Is there any advantage/disadvantage to doing it one way or the other?


Disconnecting the hose had one advantage for me because I had to redo the bleeding procedure... 
In doing so I was surprised by the black sludge formerly called mineral oil that appeared in the upper syringe.
A new clean oilcharge once in a while isn't too bad imo.;-D


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## vaduz152 (Dec 13, 2015)

*broken axle*

Hello. 
I'v broken the rear lover axle of my Hong Fu FR-036 while maintaining it. The cap got broken. 
Currently I'm using additional bolt to keep it together.







Hong Fu asks 20$ for it and 27$ for shipping to Moscow. Seems too expensive to me. Gonna find someone in local to manufacture it from steel.
Does anyone have drawing of it?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Ask Peter if he can get you one and ship it cheaper

http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=786708

You are way better off getting the right part that fits that frame


----------



## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

vaduz152[/QUOTE said:


> забей, катай так, болт дороже рамы выйдет..
> 
> forget about it, just ride like that bolt+shipping more expensive then frame..


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

vaduz152 said:


> Hello.
> I'v broken the rear lover axle of my Hong Fu FR-036 while maintaining it. The cap got broken.
> Currently I'm using additional bolt to keep it together.
> View attachment 1035396
> ...


I'm impressed that you broke the bolt and not the frame.


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm having trouble with installing the bottom bracket. First off this is my first time installing a bottom bracket. I bought a Shimano XT BB-MT800 Bottom Bracket for the cs-036 frame (BSA). Once I get the bb threaded, it snugs up pretty fast. Is it normal that you need to use a wrench, early on? I don't want to cross thread it.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Typically a wrench is needed after a few turns. To be safe remove it and look at the threads and make sure they are clean. You can also trace it with a pin or something to be sure there are no obstructions.


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

The threads on my CS-036 were contaminated with yellow glue. Took at least one hour to clean it out enough with a pin. Still had to use a wrench though, normally it should turn by hand.


bushcat said:


> I'm having trouble with installing the bottom bracket. First off this is my first time installing a bottom bracket. I bought a Shimano XT BB-MT800 Bottom Bracket for the cs-036 frame (BSA). Once I get the bb threaded, it snugs up pretty fast. Is it normal that you need to use a wrench, early on? I don't want to cross thread it.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Make sure you clean out the threads of all manufacturing materials
Get a bright light and some magnification and look at the threads

The valleys probably have some gunk in them


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Thanks for the input guys. I hope I didn't cross thread the BB. I'll take a look tonight and see if I can clean it up and get it threaded all the way.


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Do you guys think a safety pin will work for cleaning out the threads or do I need something more substantial?


----------



## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

I was recommended by a friend to have a shop chase the threads and install the BB for me. I guess it's something pretty common. I called a shop and he quoted me in the $30 price range.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I just did it with an exacto knife, it's not that difficult

There's usually just some gunk down inside the valleys


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## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Has anybody installed a rear rockshox shock on the 36? IF so what hardware did you use? The person I bought the shock from had included some hardware. It seemed to slide right on and I thought it would work. I don't think it will. When I pick up the bike and set it down, there is a slight knocking noise, like the hardward is maybe a little too big in diameter. Very slightly but the sound make me uncomfortable.


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## vaduz152 (Dec 13, 2015)

El34 said:


> Ask Peter if he can get you one and ship it cheaperhttp://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=786708You are way better off getting the right part that fits that frame


Thanks for help. Just ordered the axle from PeterXu, twice cheaper than from official Hong Fu. Will write about the result when I receive it.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

bushcat said:


> Has anybody installed a rear rockshox shock on the 36? IF so what hardware did you use? The person I bought the shock from had included some hardware. It seemed to slide right on and I thought it would work. I don't think it will. When I pick up the bike and set it down, there is a slight knocking noise, like the hardward is maybe a little too big in diameter. Very slightly but the sound make me uncomfortable.


1/2 1/2 22.2x8mm. One kit for each end of the shock.

I had a slight knocking and could feel a tiny bit of free play from one end of my shock. It was because one of the bolts was too long and extended out through the frame. I added a few washers to take up the extra and now its solid with no free play.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Excellent!


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

DT Swiss 212 came in today. Mounted it with some 8 x 22.2 hardware. Had to sand down the rear. Should have it built up just after Christmas.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

I got an ip036 and its a real pos. S*** paint f-ed up cable routing and flexy flexy oh so flexy. I dont trust it at all. Just low quality. I Will be posting pix shortly


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

panzer103 said:


> I got an ip036 and its a real pos. S*** paint f-ed up cable routing and flexy flexy oh so flexy. I dont trust it at all. Just low quality. I Will be posting pix shortly


I see a blinged out ride a coming!!!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

panzer103 said:


> I got an ip036 and its a real pos. S*** paint f-ed up cable routing and flexy flexy oh so flexy. I dont trust it at all. Just low quality. I Will be posting pix shortly


Boing!


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

I see more criticism coming.


----------



## andyfloyd (Apr 22, 2011)

panzer103 said:


> I got an ip036 and its a real pos. S*** paint f-ed up cable routing and flexy flexy oh so flexy. I dont trust it at all. Just low quality. I Will be posting pix shortly


I always thought the chinese full suspension frames looked like they would be flex town USA. I like my hardtail but I wont buy a FS frame from A chinese vendor.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Gee, you should tell us how you really feel.

I have an IP-036 and the "flex" with this frame is similar to my previous FS, a Specialized Epic. Maybe your copy was not made well on that day. I have no complaints for the $700 I spent on my frame.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

No problem here with mine and it gets punished hard


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Finished building it up today.




























IM-036Large frame
DT Swiss 212
Reba 29
ENVE m50 Chris King wheelset
Loaded napalm riser
Syntace f109 stem
Ergon gs1
Xtr race brakes
XTice tech rotors
Thomson masterpiece 
WTB pure ti seat
Loaded seat clamp
XX1 crankset
Absolute black oval chainring
Xpedo m-force 4 Ti 
XTcassette with wolftooth 42t
XTR rear shifter

23.57 pounds

We got some biblical rains lately so it may be a while before it gets some dirt.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nice build Lenny7!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

is it noodly?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Looks great


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

bt said:


> is it noodly?


Not sure, haven't ridden it on the trails. Even if it is, I probably won't notice. I'm not a very aggressive rider. I'm old and usually ride at my slow, endurance "race pace."


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

looks nice, keep us posted if you can.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

panzer103 said:


> I got an ip036 and its a real pos. S*** paint f-ed up cable routing and flexy flexy oh so flexy. I dont trust it at all. Just low quality. I Will be posting pix shortly


any pics coming? which seller did you buy from?

what tire/rim combination are you running and rear shock?


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

[ATTACH


















=CONFIG]1040853[/ATTACH]













Okay sorry about the delay in pix. End of the year time in the operating room is crazy! Anyway, I am very dissatisfied with this frame. So so flexy that I feel like im going to snap it in half and the paint is not at all worth the $40 I paid. Had IPlay do it because I didnt have time. The cable ports are funky. The rear brake is on the right side and the rear derailleur port is so cloggee with crap I cant even put a cable through it so I ran it under the down tube. The paint is of very low quality. My phone came isnt picking the details of the chipping and bubbles.
med. Ip-036
Race Face Turban stem 70mm
Whiskey flat bar 760mm
Fsa headset....they did not give me one
Pike 130mm
Saint m820 shifter
Zee Rear D
xtr race lever with zee calipers
Thomson post
sdg ti-fly
xo cranks with B-labs oval ring 28 tooth 
j&l ceramic bb
Profile hubs with Light Bikes 35mm carbon rims dt swis competition spokes
2.35 icons rear (huge tire) 2.4 ardent front
Thats about it. I have great luck with my chinese hardtail. Stiff, light and awesome and even my road bike is awesome but this thing is a piece of ****. $800 down the drain


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

panzer103 said:


> So so flexy that I feel like im going to snap it in half


"How big a boy are ya?"


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

About 215 pounds


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

panzer103 said:


> About 215 pounds


I agree that the rear triangle not very stiff, but to me its just not a bike for going sideways... I've got a nice steel Stanton for that purpose 

I did recently order new chainstays with throughaxle... I hope it'll help with the stiffness compared to my QR model.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

panzer103 said:


> About 215 pounds


You also seem to have it set up fairly all mountain-ish with a 130mm fork and very wide grippy tires. That may be generating a lot of that flex feeling.

I run mine with a 100mm fork with 2.25 tires; but I've built it as a XC racer bike and I'm over 40 pounds lighter.

I only think I notice flex when running tires that have considerable shoulder knobs. That said I can flex the rear triangle if I grab the top of the wheel and the seat post and push/pull in opposite directions. But not sure how realistic a test that is.

When I have the rear shock locked out and I bounce up and down on it I don't feel any flex except tire squirm. Seems to be the sideways stuff that generates the vague feeling.

Paint looks good from far!  But for $40 bucks you can't expect much. 40 bucks is less than the cost of most paint/ clear coat (let alone any labor)

you should be able to clear out the cable ports with a pick or something ..

thanks for posting your pics.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

two-one said:


> I agree that the rear triangle not very stiff, but to me its just not a bike for going sideways... I've got a nice steel Stanton for that purpose
> 
> I did recently order new chainstays with throughaxle... I hope it'll help with the stiffness compared to my QR model.


My chain stay support both the 135 QR and 142 thru axle dropouts ( I ordered both with my frame ).. so far it doesn't seem to make a difference which one I use. Feels the same. The flex isn't from the axle interface. It is the stays that flex.

That said I *really* like mine for what I use it for.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm curious how flexy the new AM frame is in comparison to some of these circa 2013 designs.


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

panzer103 said:


> [ATTACH
> View attachment 10408


----------



## vaduz152 (Dec 13, 2015)

vaduz152 said:


> Thanks for help. Just ordered the axle from PeterXu, twice cheaper than from official Hong Fu. Will write about the result when I receive it.


Received my axle two days ago - it fits perfetly, right the one I needed. Thanks to PeterXu!


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

wconcretej said:


> ...Ok then, first dibbs on this!
> 
> Seriously tho, have you tightened all the pivots on the frame and also have you tightened the wheel axles. I have lightbicycle carbon wheels and when my rear end felt fishtaily months down the line, I found the wheel axles needed tightening with an allen key!!
> 
> Its a real nice colour makes a change from most fm036! Sorry ur not happy with it


Its eventually going to be for sale..cheap too!


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

wconcretej said:


> ...Ok then, first dibbs on this!
> 
> Seriously tho, have you tightened all the pivots on the frame and also have you tightened the wheel axles. I have lightbicycle carbon wheels and when my rear end felt fishtaily months down the line, I found the wheel axles needed tightening with an allen key!!
> 
> Its a real nice colour makes a change from most fm036! Sorry ur not happy with it


Its eventually going to be for sale..cheap too!


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

Getting the pivots set up is key. I built up one of the first 036s to come to the US. My buddy is probably 185 and is using QRs. I've never heard him complain about flexiness. At 215 your mileage might vary, but with a through axle, I'd think it would be ok (as long as the pivots were set up right), I have no idea about your baseline for stiffness.


----------



## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

PHeller said:


> I'm curious how flexy the new AM frame is in comparison to some of these circa 2013 designs.


Me too! I'm surprised we haven't heard more about this frame...

ac


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

1818 post so far in this thread. 
I doubt anyone would be buying this frame if there was a big problem with it being a noodle.

I have had mine for 2+ years now and can't say I have never noticed anything weird going on out back.

Then again I am under 150 pounds and my frame is a 17'5 inch


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Snapped off one of the pivot bolts torquing it to specs.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

They are aluminum on my 036 frame

Not sure how tight the torque specs are?
I just tighten them down tight

Which one snapped?


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

That sucks, those bolts are not easy to find.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

It has the torque on the outside of the large "female" bolt. Says 90 kgm what ever kgm's are. Google tells me that equals to about 8 nm. broke way before 8 nm.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Epic_Dude said:


> That sucks, those bolts are not easy to find.


Thought about going to Home Depot and getting something that fits.

It's the small inside(male) bolt.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

You are lucky it might be the more common side.

BTW, the torque spec is 90 kg-cm (100 times less than 90 kg-m), this is only about 6.5 lb-ft, not much torque at all. My smallest torque wrench starts at about 9 lb-ft.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Epic_Dude said:


> You are lucky it might be the more common side.
> 
> BTW, the torque spec is 90 kg-cm (100 times less than 90 kg-m), this is only about 6.5 lb-ft, not much torque at all. My smallest torque wrench starts at about 9 lb-ft.


6.5 lb-ft = 8.8 nm. I couldn't remember what the abbreviation was so I guessed. I meant kg-cm. It broke at what looked like 6-7nm at the most.


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Must have been a defective bolt then.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Yeah, it happens. Hopefully not a big deal.


----------



## HiOctaine (Jan 20, 2016)

Having read this whole tread I'm not saving the pennies to buy a chiner carbon full sus.

I saw an article in cycling weekly about China carbon bikes that might interest people.

Cheap Chinese carbon imports: are they worth the risk? - Cycling Weekly


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Wow, you read 1826 replies?

I don't care what the article says
Magazines have their own take and they are not always correct

I have two carbon frames from China.
Been riding them for over 2 years

Had 4 Yeti's before that
sold all the others bikes including my Litespeed road bike

Got no complaints about my Chinese carbon bikes at all.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

right, and they didn't talk about what kind of failures. Are we talking head tube snapping off, or bearings disintegrating? Chainstay failures (which happen in branded bikes as well) or top tube separation? 

I wouldn't buy one of the Scott knock offs, but I also wouldn't buy a branded "real" Scott either, why? Because I'm a heavier dude who's a bit of a hack and don't baby my equipment. 

The new VPP style "AM Full Suspension" bike has my interest though, as it looks overbuilt.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

There are some really big guys riding the Chinese frames and that has not been a problem. The hardtail frames like the -057 are very strong. I am 200 lbs and ride both my 056 and FS -036 without any regard to them being carbon or made in China. Like El34, I have ridden the hard tail now since April 2013 and the FS since May of 2014, no issues. In fact I had more problems with the brand name bikes I have purchased in the past.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'll add that my 036 suspension pivots are way easier to work on that my Yeti SB95 was

I take the 036 rear end apart and clean the bearings once in a while if it get too mucked up and dirty


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

its going to be for sale soon, as soon as I find a box to ship in. Comes with pretty much zero miles, shock, shimano axle and J&L threaded BB..
So if anyone is interested keep and eye out on ebay


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

that looks like a lot of seat post showing.

is that how you were running it?


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Yes. But thats a long post. It couldn't go down much more even if I wanted too.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm wondering if a larger frame would help with the noodly problem?

That seatpost may give too much leverage.

dunno just thinking out loud.


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Perhaps. My crotch is already smooshed on the top tube. I felt flex everywhere. Its hard to say if that played a huge roll in the flex


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

so you're saying when standing over the top tube it hits your crotch yet you also need that large amount of seatpost sticking out?

I'm missing something or the picture is very deceiving.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

bt said:


> I'm wondering if a larger frame would help with the noodly problem?
> 
> That seatpost may give too much leverage.
> 
> dunno just thinking out loud.


A seatpost post flexing because it's so extended is too far fetched for me. Whats likely to happen with a carbon post that long is that if you ride an obstacle like a log and don't commit to getting off your seat properly and then find your seat whacks you in the ass the post will snap with an almighty crack. Happened twice to me!

I'm gonna guess Panzar103 is five feet ten and rides the 17.5 size and for a xc racer like me that post is spot on.

I'm no textile expert but having ridden a carbon road bike and fs MTB I would'nt say the characteristics of carbon is to flex, if it did consistently flex i'd imagine it would snap very quickly.

I think the problem is within the bolts of the components and wheels.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

There are multiple posts designed and marketed to do exactly that. Syntace P6 Hiflex, Cannondale SAVE, etc.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> There are multiple posts designed and marketed to do exactly that. Syntace P6 Hiflex, Cannondale SAVE, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> I never knew that but i hardly spend much on hi-end branded things these days. My post came from China.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

wconcretej said:


> A seatpost post flexing because it's so extended is too far fetched for me. Whats likely to happen with a carbon post that long is that if you ride an obstacle like a log and don't commit to getting off your seat properly and then find your seat whacks you in the ass the post will snap with an almighty crack. Happened twice to me!
> 
> I'm gonna guess Panzar103 is five feet ten and rides the 17.5 size and for a xc racer like me that post is spot on.
> 
> ...


no no what I mean is could that long post create enough leverage on the frame to flex the frame itself, not is the seat post flexing.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

bt said:


> no no what I mean is could that long post create enough leverage on the frame to flex the frame itself, not is the seat post flexing.


Ok I see- but i still think thats unlikely. I just done a very unscientific experiment with the four bikes in my shed, 2 made of aluminium and two of carbon. i sat on each bike with the brakes on and my right leg forcing the pedal down from the horizontal position.When I looked down at the bottom bracket, it moved over to left by an estimate of 5 millimetres and all the bikes had the same sort of deflection.

None of these bikes are flexy in a million years but i'm sure I done this years ago to a 90's Kona Explosif retro steel bike project and the movement was a lot to look at. The Kona rode with flex built in to absorb bumps and I would sometimes look back thinking I had a puncture.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 4, 2009)

This flex bizzo boils down to some pretty simple mathematics in my most humble opinion. After reading this thread it is pretty easy to conclude that if you want maximum stiffness from a 036 frame, you need to keep it away from hideous paint colours like that yellow thing. Oh man - my eyes!


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

MagicCarpet said:


> This flex bizzo boils down to some pretty simple mathematics in my most humble opinion. After reading this thread it is pretty easy to conclude that if you want maximum stiffness from a 036 frame, you need to keep it away from hideous paint colours like that yellow thing. Oh man - my eyes!


Ha ha ha! Black is boring lol 
Dude l think youre tripping over my seat post being unusually long. Its fine.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just out of curiosity:

If you're smashing your testicles on the TT, how is it your legs are long enough to necessitate that long of a seatposts?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

My inseam is around 30-31 inches. That long post has served me great on many bikes as it did on this thing.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

My inseam is around 30-31 inches. That long post has served me great on many bikes as it did on this thing.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

panzer103 said:


> My inseam is around 30-31 inches. That long post has served me great on many bikes as it did on this thing.


how tall are you?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess that looks about right
I have a 30 inch inseam and the same frame size

Although now that I look at it close, it looks as though your post is sticking out further than mine?

I don't keep my saddle way up at road bike type heights


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

5 10.5


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Imo that post isn't sticking out extremely far, I guess that mine puts the saddle a bit higher (center crankaxle to top saddle 32,09" inseam 35,4") as I'm on a large.
The rear end of the bike surely feels flexy, but more importantly it's the front that should be stiff.
I solely use it for XC.
Let's say that it performs better than the price suggests?


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

It wonder when the designers will get with the times and get a frame with modern geo.. They rock with road frames and their hardtails kickass too.. that dual link frame is a start but not that great. I would of thought by now they would have some new stuff.


----------



## HiOctaine (Jan 20, 2016)

panzer103 said:


> It wonder when the designers will get with the times and get a frame with modern geo.. They rock with road frames and their hardtails kickass too.. that dual link frame is a start but not that great. I would of thought by now they would have some new stuff.


I think the only answer to that is when an open mold is created like that which in theory will be when the copyrights run out....


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Hey guys, after about 500 miles I took apart my IP036 rear triangle and found some washers that needed attention.
I never took it apart to grease anything and some washer are making contact aluminum to aluminum.








Wondering if anyone replaced them with DELRIN or PTFE washers as I cannot find those for sale on the standard suppliers (mcmaster/fastenal/grainger).
2 washers 8x12x2.5mm
2 washers 15x8x2.5mm

The remaining 4 washers were fine and I don't see a need to replace.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Which pivot do those washers belong to?


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Top pivot, close to seatpost to hold the dogbone. I believe those are the ones with most movement.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Also going to need to replace the shock bolts. The 35x8mm ones.







So far no luck with mcmaster o fastenall.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Shame on me. After taking it all apart and understanding how it works, I learn there is no need for Delrin washers which by the way are too soft. The only reason those 2 washers are worn is because when I built the bike a shaved a bit of the main pivot bolts to get through the needle bearing body.
The new RWC needle bearings come with multiple body options which eliminates the need to shave anything and help eliminate play. So I got a new pair and now just need to wait for the original bolts to come from china.



charlesrg said:


> Hey guys, after about 500 miles I took apart my IP036 rear triangle and found some washers that needed attention.
> I never took it apart to grease anything and some washer are making contact aluminum to aluminum.
> View attachment 1047553
> 
> ...


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

charlesrg said:


> Shame on me. After taking it all apart and understanding how it works, I learn there is no need for Delrin washers which by the way are too soft. The only reason those 2 washers are worn is because when I built the bike a shaved a bit of the main pivot bolts to get through the needle bearing body.
> The new RWC needle bearings come with multiple body options which eliminates the need to shave anything and help eliminate play. So I got a new pair and now just need to wait for the original bolts to come from china.


Hey Charles, please post which RWC bearings you ordered.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I ordered the : NBKRWC2220 - RWC Shock NB Kit, 22.2mm and also the NBT3 - RWC DU Bushing Pilot.
I believe it's the same as yours.

I've absolute 0 play however I still want to get a pair of washers as mine were too thin in the main to pivot.


----------



## thargs (Apr 2, 2016)

Anyone with the CS-36 frame managed to stealth the seatpost? I PM'd someone on this thread who has apparently done so but he hasnt replied?


----------



## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

I posted a pic showing a cable going from the seattube to the downtube through the BSA BB shell.
That was possible because the BB shell in my frame had cut-outs (1 hole in the direction of the seattube and another to the downtube).

However, I discovered that the cable guides inside the downtube were tubes glued to the 'in and out-ports'.
To route the stealth cable through an exit-port on top of the downtube I would have to cut a hole through this innertube.
I decided not to go that route and went with an 'outside-cable-activated'-dropper.

It should be possible:
- If your alu BBshell has the cutouts.
- If you're willing to drill a hole through the inner guide-tube via the upper porthole, a slip of your drill-machine could cause ugly damage.
- Dont' forget to use the sleeve of your BB, I've seen some crankaxles that were almost cut in half by the stealth hose!



thargs said:


> Anyone with the CS-36 frame managed to stealth the seatpost? I PM'd someone on this thread who has apparently done so but he hasnt replied?


----------



## thargs (Apr 2, 2016)

Does anyone have flex in their CS or IP-36 rear triangle? Do you see flex when you push or pull the top part of the wheel from side to side? I feel I have to much flex.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

I think many of us have flex, not sure if it really compromises the riding. I've raced on this frame many times and got several podiums on it sometimes against much more expensive bikes.
I would suggest we use a gopro mounted to the saddle to check if it really does create an issue.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

While there is a bit of flex in my -036, I don't find it objectionable and I don't think it affects the ride of the frame. Possibly some are worse than others.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

Yes if I grab my wheel and pull it back and forth the triangle flexes. 

I do notice it cornering sometimes on long twisty descents. Straightline I can't tell. 

I still keep up with the s-works epics just fine. Sometimes leaving them behind. So I dont worry about it.


----------



## thargs (Apr 2, 2016)

Thanks for the info. Ill see how it goes. Will update how the ride is on the trails. Below are some photos of the build.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

thargs, for improved cable routing, you could flip your shock 180 deg. like I did. Here is a picture:


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## thargs (Apr 2, 2016)

I assume it works just as well in that position?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

The Fox shock works fine, I confirmed with Fox Tech Support that there is no problem using the shock in that orientation. I've also seen other brand name bikes with the shock flipped around like that from the factory.


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## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I flipped mine as well for better lever access. Feels identical to other direction.


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## thargs (Apr 2, 2016)

Took the CS-36 out for its first spin on the dirt and loved it. 1.5hr ride and not an issue with anything on a wide range of easy to technical. The whole bike felt solid and true throughout. Definitly climbing better on this bike compared to the Merida 96 26" I had. Highly recommended.


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## Mr.R (May 21, 2016)

Hi all, I have just purchased a 036 from Peter and am expecting it in the next few weeks, just wondering if anyone could confirm the front deraulier is an e2 type before I order one? also what bearing kit has everyone replaced the standard ones with? 
And finally what's the largest travel fork people are running on this frame? 
Thanks in advance 

Sent from my Xperia Z2 using Tapatalk


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Help 

I managed to brake this. Is there a replacement to get hold of?


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## Thomas78 (Jul 1, 2016)

Have anybody tried CFM035 from Carbonbikekits, how is this?
Looks very light!
What do you think about this geometri?
CFM035 29er MTB Full Carbon Suspension Frame


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Hello,

I've broken the main pivot bolt on my fm036. This is the large pivot behind the bottom bracket shell. Does anyone know of an equivalent bolt made for a name brand or should I just ask a Chinese vendor.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

My broken bolt


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The head breaking off an aluminum bolt probably means it was tightened down way too much.

There is really not much stress on the bolts side to side
So either the bolt material has a stress crack or it was tightened down too much

You can contact the seller and see if they can get you one from the frame maker


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## sixstroke (Sep 24, 2013)

The IP-036 Seems to be the flavor in this thread, but how do you guys feel about this one?























This will be my first DS bike. I ride AM and I'm pretty big, coming in at 225lbs.

Thanks for any information!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

A 70 degree HTA probably isn't the best idea for actual AM riding...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## sixstroke (Sep 24, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> A 70 degree HTA probably isn't the best idea for actual AM riding...
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


IIRC, the IP-036 is 69.5.

Is that .5 a big deal? (not being sarcastic, teach!)

Thank you btw


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes. Most bikes in that category have head tube angles in the 67º or lower range. 

Check out the Ican P8 instead.


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## sixstroke (Sep 24, 2013)

PHeller said:


> Yes. Most bikes in that category have head tube angles in the 67º or lower range.
> 
> Check out the Ican P8 instead.


Gotcha!

Thanks, (to you as well, Duke).

That Ican P8 is a 27.5". They have a comparable 29er, the "AC036", which I assume is the same as an IP-36.

Thanks for the catch, back to the drawing board, I guess.


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

panzer103 said:


> Thats about it. I have great luck with my chinese hardtail. Stiff, light and awesome and even my road bike is awesome but this thing is a piece of ****. $800 down the drain


Think of it as a life lesson. A cheap carbon F/s bike is like going to a bar and finding a cheap girl friend. Sooner or later you're going to find out about kids she had in the past, a bad FICO score, perhaps a couple STD's, etc.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

If anyone needs a spare derailleur hanger I have extras after selling my bikes. New, never used. Fits the -057 or -036. PM me for details. 12x142 Thru Axle.


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## Nico Allen (Aug 11, 2014)

Epic_Dude said:


> If anyone needs a spare derailleur hanger I have extras after selling my bikes. New, never used. Fits the -057 or -036. PM me for details.


Hey Epic_Dude, what thru-axle where you using the these hangers? I'm having a hell of a time finding a 142x12 axle that will work with these Chiner dropouts. The nut seems to be the biggest challenge. I'd like to use an X-12 system but have no idea which Nut to get that will fit the dropouts. I've tried searching but haven't found any clear answer.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Nico Allen said:


> Hey Epic_Dude, what thru-axle where you using the these hangers? I'm having a hell of a time finding a 142x12 axle that will work with these Chiner dropouts. The nut seems to be the biggest challenge. I'd like to use an X-12 system but have no idea which Nut to get that will fit the dropouts. I've tried searching but haven't found any clear answer.


I use this one: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Shimano/Steckachse-SM-AX76-A-12-mm-p40818/


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

i might be confusing things but ''X-12'' is a Syntace standard and these frames are made for Shimanos 142x12 standard, not Syntaces.

here is a cheapis lightweight alternative MT ZOOM Ultralight SHIMANO E-THRU REAR AXLE - Only £34.99
extralight and Carbon Ti do expensive lightweight options.

the nuts can be difficult to find but i got mine here
https://r2-bike.com/SHIFT-UP-Nut-M12-for-Shimano-E-Thru-Thru-Axle-12-x-142-mm


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

I notice flex too. With each pedalstroke I can see the rear triangle shift to the right and feather back to the centerposition.(Estimate at least 0.5cm).


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Nico Allen said:


> Hey Epic_Dude, what thru-axle where you using the these hangers? I'm having a hell of a time finding a 142x12 axle that will work with these Chiner dropouts. The nut seems to be the biggest challenge. I'd like to use an X-12 system but have no idea which Nut to get that will fit the dropouts. I've tried searching but haven't found any clear answer.


The axle type you need is Shimano E-thru. Available many places. One of the nicest is the DT Swiss RWS (DT Swiss RWS E-Thru Alloy | Chain Reaction Cycles)


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

More recent full-suspension bikes have raised the bar for rear-triangle stiffness. The combination of Boost, aluminum, and one-piece stays is immensely stiff. However, when I compared my CS-036 to a high-dollar Trek of similar vintage with carbon two-piece stays and the same geometry, there wasn't much difference in flex. I do notice it a bit when I'm in the saddle and the rear shock is compressed, but I don't think it's a limiting factor for XC riding.


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## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

sixstroke said:


> The IP-036 Seems to be the flavor in this thread, but how do you guys feel about this one?
> 
> View attachment 1086271
> 
> ...


Stay away from these. 
A friend has one, very poorly put together. I've got a FM036, so I'm no China 29er hater, but it's a bit of a dog. The pivots a junk it pedal bobs like anything. The 70HTA is crazy, he runs a 140mm fork and it's just stupid.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Does anyone know what the minimum Q factor cranks that will work ok (without smashing into stays) on the 036 frames? 

Would an XTR M9000 race cranks with a 158mm Q factor work, for example...or am I dreaming?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Q158 would most likely clear, I think I saw one build a year or two back that used a Q156. However, you will not have but a few millimeters clearance between the crank arm and the chainstay, not to mention the heals of your shoes may also be close to rubbing. Although you may be able space out your pedals with some washers, or get longer spindles, to help your shoes clear.

Any reason why you don't want to go with a Q168 crank?


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Epic_Dude said:


> Q158 would most likely clear, I think I saw one build a year or two back that used a Q156. However, you will not have but a few millimeters clearance between the crank arm and the chainstay, not to mention the heals of your shoes may also be close to rubbing. Although you may be able space out your pedals with some washers, or get longer spindles, to help your shoes clear.
> 
> Any reason why you don't want to go with a Q168 crank?


I'm a roadie (Don't hate me!!) and often use the 29er for interval training in bad weather. Doing long climbs and intervals feels a bit weird with the wider Q factor. But im currently using XT M8000 cranks have a 176mm Q factor. Maybe 168 would be close enough

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.R (May 21, 2016)

Well my build is practically finished, took longer than expected due to some personal issues but here it is:


















Been out on it a few times and love it so far, gonna take it down some trails over the weekend to get a real feel for it and see if there's anything I want to change.

It's not perfect yet, need new brake pads and discs, also gonna get some new bars and maybe a shorter stem but will have to ride it more to determine if I should.

Must say though I'm so glad I built this, my uncle has a carbon stumpjumper and this feels so much better than it :-D

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk


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## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

*New single pivot flex seatstay full suspension 29er*

Pricey but looks real nice! Finally a new 29 full suspension from China

29er 19" BB92 UD Matt Carbon Full Suspension Frame MTB Bicycle thru Axle Bike | eBay


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

What is new about it?

It looks like a 036 to me
Just some different outer shapes to the tubes?

Except mine has a pivot point on the rear chain stays
I can't see one in those pics?


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## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

this has the new trend of no pivot, just flex stays, also has shorter chainstay and slacker head angle like the Yeti ASR C


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## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

panzer103 said:


> It wonder when the designers will get with the times and get a frame with modern geo.. They rock with road frames and their hardtails kickass too.. that dual link frame is a start but not that great. I would of thought by now they would have some new stuff.


look down to the post 1896, there are good news


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a 140mm fox on my 036
That is slack enough for the downhills here in pisgah


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## numberzero (Oct 15, 2009)

https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produ..._mountain_bike_frame_rear_shock_165_38mm.html

Less pricey.
Geometry is great for modern XC, but i have a doubt on the main pivot location. It seems a bit too low (compared with the new LCFS902 from yishun) so we must expect degraded antisquat with big chainrings...


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I am not seeing a whole lot of difference between a 036 and the FM06
I copied and pasted a transparent image of the FM06 on top of the 036 image.

The head angle is different on the FM06
The rear stay has no pivot on the FM 06

The frame size is a bit larger in the FM06 image but you can move the transparent FM06 image around and line up the BB and fame tubes to do a compare


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I would argue that a 1.5 degree change in HTA and no Pivot near the axle are very significaht changes.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> I would argue that a 1.5 degree change in HTA and no Pivot near the axle are very significaht changes.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I'd agree. Not to mention shorter chainstays. The FM06 is clearly more up to date.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

That said, if you're considering paying $1400 on eBay for that frame, just buy a Yeti ASRc on CC/BB for $2200 and get a warranty AND a Fox DPS Factory shock.

Buying a shock for that frame puts you most of the way towards the Yeti, which this frame is clearly trying to replicate.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

$1,400 is way too much for a Chinese FS frame. I think that eBay listing is about double what you should be able to find it selling for through places like XMcarbonspeed, Workwell, HungFu, etc. I would expect the price to be closer to $700, like the IP/FM/CS-036 (which is even cheaper these days).


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## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

the price in Hong Fu its 660 -700 usd


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Has anyone installed a BB30 bottom bracket on the 036 frame? 
Is it actually BB30 (circlips and bearing pressed into BB housing)?
Or, are they actually PF30 - which uses pressed in cups?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mr4fox said:


> Has anyone installed a BB30 bottom bracket on the 036 frame?
> Is it actually BB30 (circlips and bearing pressed into BB housing)?
> Or, are they actually PF30 - which uses pressed in cups?


Mine was a normal BB30 with circlips... but PF30 didn't exist back then


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

two-one said:


> Mine was a normal BB30 with circlips... but PF30 didn't exist back then


Thanks two-one,

Ever had any creaking/problems with it?

I'm.sure mine must be the same. They said BB30 when I bought it but as I was running Shimano cranks I never bothered to look to see if it had grooves for the circlips or measure the diameter of the housing to confirm.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

mr4fox said:


> Ever had any creaking/problems with it?


Ehmm... i've had to replace the bearings more often than my older hollowtech cranks, but luckily they can be ordered cheaply online (its just a simple 6806-2RS bearing). BB30 sealing is always poorer than modern cups. It also depends on the preloading system. My FSA crank has a preload collar that has to be turned to reduce sideways play.
One trick is by buying aftermarket enduro seals for BB30 that creates an extra sealing layer, and mount with loads of waterproof grease.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

two-one said:


> Ehmm... i've had to replace the bearings more often than my older hollowtech cranks, but luckily they can be ordered cheaply online (its just a simple 6806-2RS bearing). BB30 sealing is always poorer than modern cups. It also depends on the preloading system. My FSA crank has a preload collar that has to be turned to reduce sideways play.
> One trick is by buying aftermarket enduro seals for BB30 that creates an extra sealing layer, and mount with loads of waterproof grease.


Thanks for the tips.

Just ordered a BB30 power2max S-type power meter so guess I'm stuck living with it for a while. Will have to keep an eye on the bearings and maybe a spare pair on hand.
Cheers

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi all

Got my main pivot replacement bolt this week from hongfu.Got 3 just incase.
Thinking about it Hongfu are likely creators of fm036 if those production photos are to be believed. No one else could source replacement bolts.


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## jplamere1 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Custom LaMere Boost 148 Rear for HM036*







We just had a Boost 148 custom carbon rear end made for the popular open mould 29er full suspension HM036 (and many other names) frames..... fits 3" tires, we beefed it up made it super stiff and burly with nicer pivot points.


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

jplamere1 said:


> View attachment 1104305
> We just had a Boost 148 custom carbon rear end made for the popular open mould 29er full suspension HM036 (and many other names) frames..... fits 3" tires, we beefed it up made it super stiff and burly with nicer pivot points.


I like it! Looks like it will be a popular choice as 29+ gains popularity.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

jplamere1 said:


> View attachment 1104305
> We just had a Boost 148 custom carbon rear end made for the popular open mould 29er full suspension HM036 (and many other names) frames..... fits 3" tires, we beefed it up made it super stiff and burly with nicer pivot points.


What do you mean by nicer pivot points?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

In order to accommodate 3 inch tires, I am guessing that only the lower chain stay section is what you are talking about replacing on the 036 frames?

The upper section that leads up to the shock pivot is the stock one?

Also, more detail on the nicer pivot point statement?
Different bearings?

Are you selling the lower section?

We need more detailed info please


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## Dikkie (Dec 16, 2005)

Imo, the upper section looks beafier too and the flex comes from the main pivot, being quite narrow basewise. Same issue with the upper links...
I'm critical about the custom-Lamere-rear feeling stiffer?


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

Dikkie said:


> Imo, the upper section looks beafier too and the flex comes from the main pivot, being quite narrow basewise. Same issue with the upper links...
> I'm critical about the custom-Lamere-rear feeling stiffer?


Possibly Lamere would like to quantify how much the lateral stiffness is improved, possibly by side loading the frame and measuring the amount of deflection, then comparing that to the deflection in the stock -036.


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## Deihlos (Dec 20, 2016)

hey guys,

does anybody has this frame and any experience about the frame?
What do you think about the geo?
Thank you very much for your informations.

29er Full Suspension XC Carbon Frame LCFS903-Yishunbike


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Have you guys seen the new one from Peter at XMCarbonspeed?

The FS27 bears resemblance to the new Scott Spark 710 Plus.

Some notable differences though: XMCarbonspeed claims that the bike can only be ran with 275x2.8, no 275x3.0 or 29x2.2 for this bike. This is classic "how close is the copy to the original?" I was really hoping I could run something similar with 275x2.8 most of the time or 29x2.3 for long days.

The other difference is in the chainstay length. Scott has the Spark set at a quite short 428, while XMCarbonspeed is another 10mm at 438.

How a bike with 10mm extra chainstay length can't fit a slightly bigger tire is beyond me, but whatever.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Same chainstay length, actually. The head tube is a bit shorter on the XM frame, or so it's written. The stack and reach measurements are identical, though, so that may be in error. The two are functionally identical.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

wow, that thing looks identical, except for the headtube... maybe the front triangle was redesigned, and they use a previous mold?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

alexdi said:


> Same chainstay length, actually.


Sorry I think I missed that Scott appears to be making two different Spark frames. Check out the differences in geometry between:

Scott Spark 700 Premium

Scott Spark 900 Ultimate

Scott Spark 710 Plus Tuned

Enduro Mag kinda covered these differences in a table at the bottom of this preview.

The tricky part, from what I understand, will be obtaining a shock to fit the FS27, as currently the 165x45 Metric sized shocks are not available aftermarket yet.


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## Blurbikerider (Mar 12, 2011)

*rear brake mount*

Wonder how much having the brake mounted on the seatstay will effect performance vs it being a floating mount like on the scott.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Blurbikerider said:


> Wonder how much having the brake mounted on the seatstay will effect performance vs it being a floating mount like on the scott.


Seeing as it's a one piece rear triangle, I'm guessing it won't matter in the slightest.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## bushcat (Aug 2, 2015)

Selling my CS-036 build. Very low mileage. 1600 plus 100 for shipping. You can see a pic of it here. http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/bushcats-cs-036-chinese-carbon-fs-build-991150.html


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

OMFG!

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60580338552.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.ntkTgN

this frame has same geometry of spark 29 120mm with rear triangle for 27.5+

likes foocking amazing!


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## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

HERE SAYS THAT IT WORKS FOR A 29X2.25 TIRE TOO!
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Miracle-29er-full-suspension-Enduro-mountain_60580326587.html, But For a more XC ride I think that Denf Fu FM06 with an 120mm 51mm offset Sid, it will rise the BB about 10 mm and will be a rocket on singletrack! Now we have to see how it performs in real life, the flexstays need to work as the original frame that they copied


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

Don Ticho said:


> HERE SAYS THAT IT WORKS FOR A 29X2.25 TIRE TOO!
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Miracle-29er-full-suspension-Enduro-mountain_60580326587.html, But For a more XC ride I think that Denf Fu FM06 with an 120mm 51mm offset Sid, it will rise the BB about 10 mm and will be a rocket on singletrack! Now we have to see how it performs in real life, the flexstays need to work as the original frame that they copied


the difference is the rear triangle with more clearance for 27.5+ tires

the pure 29er use 12x142m rear axle, and the 27.5+ version use 12x148mm boost

the geometry is a lot of similar.. but I personality in 27.5+ version


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

As far as I can see, there is no cable routing for remote rear shock. Or if the cable port on the right side should be for the remote shock, there is no cable routing for a dropper post. It's hard to see on the pictures...

The pictures show a shock with manual lever. But this lever will be damn far down to reach with the trunnion shock mounted upside down.

Also the rear brake cable routing along the top tube is a little bit annoying because the cable will move when the suspension is working. Why not route the brake cable along the down tube the same way the rear derailleur cable routes?

The devil is always in the datails. But the frame is very interesting...


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

I see three holes in front of the frame, but only two exit holes. I assume one of the entry holes is intended for an internal dropper? 

This frame should have pretty decent anti-squat figures. Given that it's very much a trail bike, I don't think I'd miss a rear lockout.


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## ChanceG (Nov 17, 2014)

bushcat said:


> Selling my CS-036 build. Very low mileage. 1600 plus 100 for shipping. You can see a pic of it here. http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/bushcats-cs-036-chinese-carbon-fs-build-991150.html


Pm sent


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

If anybody needs derailleur hangers for a CS-036, give me a shout. I've got three of them, two new. $20 shipped for all of them.


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## ChanceG (Nov 17, 2014)

If anyone is getting ready to sell there 036 frameset, let me know! I'm in need of a size large frame


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Here's something interesting:

The Miracle FS029 XC 29er on Alibaba is listed as a 100mm rear travel with 12x142 rear axle. It says it's max tire is 29x2.25 which sounds a lot like the 2017 Spark RC.

The Miracle FS027 650B Plus is listed as 120mm rear travel with a 12x148 rear axle and 275x2.8 max tire. Which sounds a lot like the 2017 Spark 700 Plus. The Scott can fit a 29x2.35 tire or larger, but we're not sure whether the Chinese version can.

The geometry charts are identical for the Alibaba Miracle bikes, which is not the case with the Sparks, which have quite few differences between models.

This is one of those situations where I wish Peter at Xiamen Carbon Speed or another reseller would just send us the CAD drawings so we could determine exactly how much tire clearance we have.

Or someone can just buy one and see if they can't fit a 29x2.35 in the rear triangle.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Have you guys seen this new frame ?
29er Full Suspension XC Carbon Mountain Bike MTB Frame LCFS904-Yishunbike


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

charlesrg said:


> Have you guys seen this new frame ?
> 29er Full Suspension XC Carbon Mountain Bike MTB Frame LCFS904-Yishunbike


I grabbed this picture (below). Really hoping its not showing the brake line (top line in red) because I feel like it would be terrible everytime the suspension compresses...








I doubt the Scott 'orginal' runs the brake line the same way.


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## Deihlos (Dec 20, 2016)

Hey guys checked my thread i got the first frame...

Miracle F029 Race/Trail Fully 2017 Aufbau | Seite 2 | MTB-News.de


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## kave (Jan 7, 2013)

padrefan1982 said:


> I grabbed this picture (below). Really hoping its not showing the brake line (top line in red) because I feel like it would be terrible everytime the suspension compresses...
> View attachment 1125028
> 
> 
> I doubt the Scott 'orginal' runs the brake line the same way.


The Scott runs the brake cable in frame and then under the bottom bracket.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

padrefan1982 said:


> I grabbed this picture (below). Really hoping its not showing the brake line (top line in red) because I feel like it would be terrible everytime the suspension compresses...
> View attachment 1125028
> 
> 
> I doubt the Scott 'orginal' runs the brake line the same way.


Thanks for noting. This is just plain stupid design.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Deihlos said:


> Hey guys checked my thread i got the first frame...
> 
> Miracle F029 Race/Trail Fully 2017 Aufbau | Seite 2 | MTB-News.de


I searched for Brakes after translating your german forum and found no info. How are you going to run the brake line ?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Are you sure the brake line runs up top?
I can't see the image details very well, but I see some sort of a nub on the frame just to the left of the BB


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Deihlos said:


> Hey guys checked my thread i got the first frame...
> 
> Miracle F029 Race/Trail Fully 2017 Aufbau | Seite 2 | MTB-News.de


What is the head tube angle of your bike?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

El34 said:


> Are you sure the brake line runs up top?
> I can't see the image details very well, but I see some sort of a nub on the frame just to the left of the BB


http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/img_2244-jpg.582010/
Yes it does. Given the finish that the chinese usually use on the brake gromets/holes I don't think the cable will last long unless extra care is applied to maintain it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Anyone else ordered one of these Scott Spark lookalike frames yet? Any actual measurements? HTA, reach, BB, STA?

Seems Deihlos was one and done here...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The F029's front end looks pretty slack. Very interesting frame.

Deihlos's bike looks pretty good. I really like the straight lines on the frame. Hope he don't mind me posting his bike.








Looking for more feedback on the M-108 also.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> The F029's front end looks pretty slack. Very interesting frame.
> 
> Deihlos's bike looks pretty good. I really like the straight lines on the frame. Hope he don't mind me posting his bike.
> View attachment 1125951
> ...


I really like the bike. 
But it's hard for me to swallow this brake line.
That's whats holding me from ordering this frame.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

charlesrg said:


> I really like the bike.
> But it's hard for me to swallow this brake line.
> That's whats holding me from ordering this frame.


Send them an email and see what they say. From my own experiences...the frame will not be made till you order the frame. I'm not sure what would involve making the change in the molds for cable routing...but if they're the manufacturer and some bad routing is involved...who knows they might make the change. It's just that the frame is pretty new and chances are nobody has brought the hose routing to their attention. Manufacturers do make running changes as time goes on. The 057 and 062 have both seen improvements since they first came out.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm still looking for a 120mm frame, 67-68° with a 120mm fork. 2016 Fuel EX or Scott Spark 900 like geometry.

Found this, which lacks ABP but looks very similar to the Fuel:

https://f2rq3.app.goo.gl/?link=http...ibi=com.alibaba.sourcing&isi=503451073&amv=69

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> Send them an email and see what they say. From my own experiences...the frame will not be made till you order the frame. I'm not sure what would involve making the change in the molds for cable routing...but if they're the manufacturer and some bad routing is involved...who knows they might make the change. It's just that the frame is pretty new and chances are nobody has brought the hose routing to their attention. Manufacturers do make running changes as time goes on. The 057 and 062 have both seen improvements since they first came out.


Haven't heard of any Chinese mtb seller that would modify anything on the frame on customers request.

Another issue is the rear brake mount. As the seatstay will flex that will cause braking issues.

https://dfp2hfrf3mn0u.cloudfront.net/201/2017_Tech & Facts Report_Spark_EN_Print_pdf_1.pdf
See this document from Scott explains that they use a special mount for the rear disc caliper, disconnected from the seatstay.


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## ypocat (Sep 19, 2012)

*XX1 Eagle black 38T*

Heya'll, loong time no post. How is everybody doing?


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## smdlr (Mar 14, 2017)

Hello, about the Miracle FS029 29er frame, could it use a Front Derailleur? Which type? Or it is only for 1x drivetrain? Thanks.


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## Veco (Mar 9, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> The F029's front end looks pretty slack. Very interesting frame.
> 
> Deihlos's bike looks pretty good. I really like the straight lines on the frame. Hope he don't mind me posting his bike.
> View attachment 1125951
> ...


I'm guessing he bought from Miracle bike?

Not sure if the FC29 is ready yet from other suppliers, but I emailed Peter at xm carbon speed about the 650B model and he said "Sorry we are still improving our CS-FS27 frame design and we haven't sold this frame so far.". So no FC27 just yet, can't comment on the 29er.

I don't know if that means they think there's some weakness in the frame they have to resolve before they sell it. Or perhaps they got the mould later and are just testing it still.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Veco said:


> I'm guessing he bought from Miracle bike?
> 
> Not sure if the FC29 is ready yet from other suppliers, but I emailed Peter at xm carbon speed about the 650B model and he said "Sorry we are still improving our CS-FS27 frame design and we haven't sold this frame so far.". So no FC27 just yet, can't comment on the 29er.
> 
> I don't know if that means they think there's some weakness in the frame they have to resolve before they sell it. Or perhaps they got the mould later and are just testing it still.


Quick view and you will notice:
1 - Look at the seatstay and brake mount. The seatstay flexes with the shock travel. So try to brake and go over bumps. :eekster:
2 - Look at the cable routing, the rear brake goes through the top tube to the seatstay. The frame flexes and your brake cables will have to flex excessively when compared to cables that run down through the bb :nono:

There might be more issues , those are the ones blocking me from ordering this type of frame without major re-engineering.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

ypocat said:


> Heya'll, loong time no post. How is everybody doing?
> 
> View attachment 1126250
> 
> ...


Beautiful setup. What drivetrain did you had before ? Do you ride in flatland ? 38T is huge. Don't all this big rings add weight ?


----------



## cale399 (Oct 18, 2008)

where can I get this frame and how much I am not able to google it...
thx love the lines


----------



## Creep Tonight (Apr 28, 2017)

Hey guys- This is by far the best looking frame to come out of the carbon farms in China.


----------



## blast_off (Mar 31, 2011)

Creep Tonight said:


> View attachment 1134818
> 
> 
> Hey guys- This is by far the best looking frame to come out of the carbon farms in China.


Do you have any more info on this one? It looks different from a lot of the import frames!


----------



## Creep Tonight (Apr 28, 2017)

Definitely the best of the them. aesthetically at least.
Well, the rep did not reply on the price but she said it takes 200x51 rear shocks (140 travel), and it's best with 140 travel fork.

boost spaced too.


update ****

USD 750/piece FOB Shanghai.
The freight is USD 150/piece by air.

that's expensive.:madman:


----------



## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

*Yishun LCFS902*

I recently got a Yishun LCFS902 frame 20.5" frame.
I had a quick look at the kinematics using the Linkage X3 (demo only-sorry linkage) if it is of interest to anyone. 28t chainring driving 46t rear at sag is shown in the screenshot. Ignore the specialized epic labels, the demo wont allow file name changes.







Anti squat is above 100% for the lowest gears, suggesting good climbing. This appears to be the case riding it also, though if you run a 32 or 34 front ring this will reduce slightly.

The linkage curve is ~10% regressive between zero and full travel, so reducing air spring positive chamber volume is beneficial to gain some rear wheel travel progressiveness.

Geometry wise it seems good.

Rear lateral stiffness seems quite low. Being quite light ~65kg, I don't notice it a lot, however if you are heavier/powerful I suspect it would be quite flexy.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

RS VR6 said:


> The F029's front end looks pretty slack. Very interesting frame.
> 
> Deihlos's bike looks pretty good. I really like the straight lines on the frame. Hope he don't mind me posting his bike.
> View attachment 1125951
> ...


Does anyone know what kind of rear shock he got? I am looking at the 27.5+ version and it seems to require a metric shock with a trunnion mount.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I was looking at the same bike. I could be wrong but I think the shock length and stroke are available


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I was looking at the same bike. I could be wrong but I think the shock length and stroke are available


But not with a trunnion mount. It is a the moment a custom fox nude shock not for sale the public.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I was looking at the same bike. I could be wrong but I think the shock length and stroke are available


 At the moment I am chatting with a rep who says they can buy the shock in china. I am waiting for a reply on price.
The Miracle Bike version I got a quoted price of 699$ for the frame.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Oops I didn't finish my thought. You're right, I was going to say you can run an English one with hardware that fits the trunnion mount.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

But let us know what you find. Fwiw I also remember there are two versions of this bike: a plus compatible and a non-plus compatible.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Oops I didn't finish my thought. You're right, I was going to say you can run an English one with hardware that fits the trunnion mount.


 Upon closer inspection the shock pictured on the frame isn't using trunnion mount as far as I can tell. I also got another quote from miraclebike for $679 shipped to usa.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Wrong thread


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

sine waiver said:


> I recently got a Yishun LCFS902 frame 20.5" frame.
> I had a quick look at the kinematics using the Linkage X3 (demo only-sorry linkage) if it is of interest to anyone. 28t chainring driving 46t rear at sag is shown in the screenshot. Ignore the specialized epic labels, the demo wont allow file name changes.
> View attachment 1136502
> 
> ...


Interesting app. It would be interesting to run it on some new frames like the M06 and the FM098


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## cale399 (Oct 18, 2008)

not listed on their site ???


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## ludota (Jun 14, 2010)

*Hongfu FM058*

Do you know this new frame ?

Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


----------



## Creep Tonight (Apr 28, 2017)

I want to see that frame with an actual rear shock.Looks a bit tight on the upper mount area.


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

sine waiver said:


> I recently got a Yishun LCFS902 frame 20.5" frame.
> I had a quick look at the kinematics using the Linkage X3 (demo only-sorry linkage) if it is of interest to anyone. 28t chainring driving 46t rear at sag is shown in the screenshot. Ignore the specialized epic labels, the demo wont allow file name changes.
> View attachment 1136502
> 
> ...


Yeah, I calculated similar leverage ratio numbers in my own application. I bought the frame, and i'm running it with a Cane Creek DBInline shock. So far so good, but the current 38/24 double chainring configuration demands the use of the climb swith on all sections where I want to put the power down.... a 28-32t 1x drivetrain would definitely suit it better.


----------



## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Hey folks,
Anyone know what size suspension bearings the 036 frame needs?


----------



## sine waiver (Mar 30, 2016)

two-one said:


> Yeah, I calculated similar leverage ratio numbers in my own application. I bought the frame, and i'm running it with a Cane Creek DBInline shock. So far so good, but the current 38/24 double chainring configuration demands the use of the climb swith on all sections where I want to put the power down.... a 28-32t 1x drivetrain would definitely suit it better.


I looked at the leverage ratio in solidworks first and wanted to give linkage a try, it gives a lot of other useful data with minimal effort.

The 24 should give excessive anti squat and the 38 excessive squat, do you feel this pedalling?

Have you done any modifications to the air volume on the ccdb?


----------



## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

sine waiver said:


> I looked at the leverage ratio in solidworks first and wanted to give linkage a try, it gives a lot of other useful data with minimal effort.
> 
> The 24 should give excessive anti squat and the 38 excessive squat, do you feel this pedalling?
> 
> Have you done any modifications to the air volume on the ccdb?


I noticed that the 38t will give some bobbing while riding on hardpack or the road when the Climb switch is "open". Not that much though.
The 24t will be tested this weekend, but I expect it will be fine during the climbs.

Oh, and I use 2 large volume spacers to create some ramp-up.


----------



## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

mr4fox said:


> Hey folks,
> Anyone know what size suspension bearings the 036 frame needs?


Chris at real world cycles sells quality main pivot bearings
REAL WORLD CYCLING AFTERMARKET COMPONENTS, BEARINGS, & SEALS

I replaced the main pivot bearings last July
Here's my post about that
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/0...racket-pivot-bearing-replacement-1018965.html

It was easy with a small press I have
The other bearings were fine. 
They don't take that much abuse

Here's my text notes on the bearings used in the 036 frame that I have
qty 4 of 6901z - Main Pivot and Top Tube pivot 
qty 4 of 698zz - Rear chain stay and rear shock pivots


----------



## grgogo (Nov 4, 2016)

Finally got my M06 together.

XX1
SID RTC3
Monarch RT3 high tune
XTR brakes
DT Swiss 240 hubs
Light Bicycle rims

23 pounds exactly.

First ride today. Very nice XC geometry.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Looks more and more like the ASRc every time I see it.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Don Ticho (Apr 8, 2011)

how the suspension and brakes feel? any unwanted bob?


----------



## grgogo (Nov 4, 2016)

All feels very solid and predictable. The shocks I'm running have a good platform control so that's probably part of the stability. It feels very similar to my hard tail with just that bit of extra cush. Handles great!

I've already swapped out the stem for a shorter one and mounted a set-back post. Puts me about an inch further back. That's more preference than anything but it's the position I like.

This is my fifth Chinese carbon build (three are mine and two I built for friends). Went together very easily with no surprises. Now to put it through a season and see how it holds up.


----------



## KCKS (Jun 26, 2009)

I've been looking into getting a carbon frame this summer. I current rise a 2015 Trek Fuel EX 8, 29er. Which chinese frame will allow me to transfer as much of my existing parts as possible? Also, I'm fairly heavy at 220 pounds. M


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

At $2999, the Fezzari Timp Peak NX1 is a great deal for those looking at a carbon framed 275 Enduro bike with a decent build kit. If you need a complete bike and you want to stick with new parts, I'm not quite sure how likely you could beat this total price with a Chinese Full-Suspension option.

The other advantage is that Fezzari is probably far more likely to be easy to work with for warranty related issues that some of the Chinese retailers.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

The FM078 at Hong Fu looks very similar to the Scott Spark copy F029, but perhaps with revised cable routing?

It's also got the brake on the chainstay rather than the seat stay, which is an improvement.

Oddly enough I can't find the ZGL frames anymore on AliExpress or Alibaba.

Really like the design of this one: TWFM125


----------



## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

PHeller said:


> At $2999, the Fezzari Timp Peak NX1 is a great deal for those looking at a carbon framed 275 Enduro bike with a decent build kit. If you need a complete bike and you want to stick with new parts, I'm not quite sure how likely you could beat this total price with a Chinese Full-Suspension option.
> 
> The other advantage is that Fezzari is probably far more likely to be easy to work with for warranty related issues that some of the Chinese retailers.


Where are you getting the $2,999 price? When I checked the Fezzari website, that build MSRP is $3,999.


----------



## shiverun (Jul 15, 2016)

*Just purchased the LCFS904*

Planning to build with IRD in the front and rear. Ordered from Mickey $650 for frame and $20 for extra set of bearings and pivot bolts.


----------



## TheBrandon (May 6, 2017)

I have an old 26 hardtail Trek 4300 I built up and a Trek Cobia 29er hardtail stock I've been riding. I'd like to build a 29. I ride 95% of the time on trails in the woods. Quite a bit of climbing but I am not on a mountain so I'd say 50/50 climb and downhill. Mostly technical but single track. Lots of roots, sections with quite a few rocks and things like that. What frame should I be looking at for FS to build? I ride a fairly low skill set, my bunny hop is an excellent 2 inches off the ground and I can manual easily 2 inches haha. So I suck is what I am saying. It's not uncommon for me to nail the chain ring on something I am climbing over or attempting too. Between XC and Trail bikes I've been going a bit in circles. So any suggestions on what frame type and why I should be eyeballing it? This will be my first complete build from scratch. Not afraid to take some risk on a new frame so long as it makes sense. If it matters, I am 5'7 195lbs. 30 inch inseam. Thanks everyone!!!


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## cale399 (Oct 18, 2008)

*Just built*









cale399 said:


> not listed on their site ???


----------



## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

new paint job for my trusty stead. In fact I plasti-dipped. Theres some multi coloured electric tape added to the end of the green sections to help with any peeling issues.

looking at my design I could have just used vinyl wrap to achieve similar looks.

First ride out I had issues with some chips on the rear triangle where the coating was not as thick because I ran out of spray. Front triangle was almost perfect except on the downtube underside where there was a 2-3 inch rub mark which I figure could have been branch/sticks trapped between compressed front wheel and frame. Not sure if its rubbed back to carbon or just heavily stained.


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## propht (Jan 21, 2016)

Hey Creep, do you have the model number and/or website I can look into this frame more? Thanks.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Does anyone have an update on the Scott Spark copies?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Does anyone have an update on the Scott Spark copies?


You can buy them on eBay now. 699$ 
Mine is shipping now will have it in a few days.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Nice! I can't wait to see some more rider feedback. 

That free shipping through eBay is a pretty good deal.


----------



## Babylondown (Apr 1, 2016)

ludota said:


> Do you know this new frame ?
> 
> Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> View attachment 1137738


I'm very interested in this frame as well as it seems to have a dual pivot, which was missing from previous chiner full suspension frames.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Babylondown said:


> I'm very interested in this frame as well as it seems to have a dual pivot, which was missing from previous chiner full suspension frames.


Is there any info about it anywhere? Looks like re are just pics on that link.

What do you mean by dual pivot?

Also looks like it's not trunnion mount compatible.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Babylondown said:


> I'm very interested in this frame as well as it seems to have a dual pivot, which was missing from previous chiner full suspension frames.


Dual pivot?

No. It's a modified single pivot, a la Scott Spark, Yeti ASRc, Kona Hei Hei Race DL, Orbea Oiz and Occam, Cannondale Scalpel-Si, etc.


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## Babylondown (Apr 1, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Dual pivot?
> 
> No. It's a modified single pivot, a la Scott Spark, Yeti ASRc, Kona Hei Hei Race DL, Orbea Oiz and Occam, Cannondale Scalpel-Si, etc.


Oops. My bad. Guess I shouldnt comment based off a picture I saw on my tiny mobile phone. Still an interesting design and I may hold off on purchasing a frame until more information of this one comes out.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

That frame looks like it has better rear brake cable routing than the fs27/fs29 and the rear caliper mounts to the chain stay like the the name brands. 

Very intriguing.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Looks like there's already a thread on the fm058 http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1180.0.html says it's xc race oriented with 100mm rear travel and 69 deg head angle.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Need opinions on this shock fitting the fs27/29 frame. https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...5ehtYgsfd_cQhZz3jy4VstIN2qgxc5mBoCjgUQAvD_BwE thank you.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

That's funny I was literally on the phone with those guys hours ago about the same shock among other options. You're adding an extra 5 mm of stroke length so you will get more travel out of the rear end which might come with issues like the rear tire or rocker link hitting the seat tube.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> That's funny I was literally on the phone with those guys hours ago about the same shock among other options. You're adding an extra 5 mm of stroke length so you will get more travel out of the rear end which might come with issues like the rear tire or rocker link hitting the seat tube.


It's supposed to use a 165/45 trunnion mount shock to get the full 120mm of travel anyway. This is the closest thing I have found and my search skills are high level.

Planet cyclery said it wouldn't fit but didn't elaborate as to why. The only way I see it not fitting is if the actual trunnion mount is too wide.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

All the info I've seen on the frame says it's a 165x38. In this thread someone stated the trunnion mount requires 8x50 hardware.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> All the info I've seen on the frame says it's a 165x38. In this thread someone stated the trunnion mount requires 8x50 hardware and the frame includes spacers for 8x22 to match the rocker link spacing.
> Carbon Speed 2017 27.5 plus FS frame CS-FS27


They changed it on some of the frame descriptions it was 165/45 but you can't buy one so they changed it so they could keep selling the frame. 
This has the same mount as Scott spark. All the other info you've read are basically work arounds. I you run a 165/38 you won't be getting the full 120 it will be more like 100.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Ahh Ok thanks for the info. I just did a quick search and the name brand version is 165/45 with the trunnion mount. When I was talking to worldwide they said the metrics are becoming available now and will be widely available by the end of august. You'd probably be fine with the 165x42.5 you found, but it might be worth waiting for a delux or dps for the extra bit of travel.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Ahh Ok thanks for the info. I just did a quick search and the name brand version is 165/45 with the trunnion mount. When I was talking to worldwide they said the metrics are becoming available now and will be widely available by the end of august. You'd probably be fine with the 165x42.5 you found, but it might be worth waiting for a delux or dps for the extra bit of travel and trunnion mount.


 The question is are the trunnion mounts all the same width? Is Giant the same as Scott?

You would think that if they are trying to make things more standardized with "new" metric sizing that they would want to standardized the width of the trunnion.

I am not known for my patience but do I want to spend 340$ now for what would be a place keeper for a couple months.

Also a DVO rep kinda hinted that a trunnion mount Topaz is in the works and I'm a DVO fanboy ?


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I called sram to get some more info. As far as they are concerned all of their trunnion shock will have the same width and threads. But bike companies may not be consistent with the mounting area spread and flange width. So the challenge will be finding the right bolts for the frame and maybe spacers too? I doubt these guys are going to send anything other than the long ass through bolt and spacers to run standard 8x22 hardware.

Good news about the shock is its the 165x45 chassis with a 2.5mm travel reducer. So when you do a full service you can remove the spacer and get full travel. The anthem tune is M/M, but oddly the Spark is High/Mid (delux rt3). That much rebound dampening seems unnecessary given the bikes intended use.

I called fox too, they said you can pre order a 165x45 trunnion mount dps. They are expecting a smallish shipment to be available on sept 1, which may only fulfill pre orders, so...

The idea of a topaz is rad, cuz dialing in your shim tune will have a much greater effect on 120mm of travel vs 160mm IMO. But that deluxe seems nice and Worldwide's price is killer.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I called sram to get some more info. As far as they are concerned all of their trunnion shock will have the same width and threads. But bike companies may not be consistent with the mounting area spread and flange width. So the challenge will be finding the right bolts for the frame and maybe spacers too? I doubt these guys are going to send anything other than the long ass through bolt and spacers to run standard 8x22 hardware.
> 
> Good news about the shock is its the 165x45 chassis with a 2.5mm travel reducer. So when you do a full service you can remove the spacer and get full travel. The anthem tune is M/M, but oddly the Spark is High/Mid (delux rt3). That much rebound dampening seems unnecessary given the bikes intended use.
> 
> ...


Sweet thanks for the info. Nice to know we can buy the exact shock we need for this frame.
So I'll just order the deluxe and it should be an easy resell due to the fact that fs builds will become popular I think.(when DVO decides to release metric Topaz)
I wonder if we can get them to remove the travel spacer before shipping?

Also the rebound damping difference may come down to tire choice. Scott likes to put plus tires on their bikes. I run 2.8 an 45i carbon rims. I found I have to almost use every bit of rebound damping on my Dvo Diamond because of how springy the carbon plus tire combo is.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

DO IT! Interesting about plus tires. I've never owned them. Obviously high speed is baked into the tune and not adjustable externally so hopefully it's close enough.

The travel reducer is in the same place as the bottom out washer, to access it requires removing the piston assembly from the damper body, then removing the piston from the fixed shaft. You need a vise and a shaft clamp. I don't think it's anything too hard, but probably worth running it for awhile before taking it all apart. I think it's 100hr service interval anyway, so maybe wait till then? But you're impatient and you can party way harder with the extra 2.5mm 

Did you already order your frame?


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> DO IT! Interesting about plus tires. I've never owned them. Obviously high speed is baked into the tune and not adjustable externally so hopefully it's close enough.
> 
> The travel reducer is in the same place as the bottom out washer, to access it requires removing the piston assembly from the damper body, then removing the piston from the fixed shaft. You need a vise and a shaft clamp. I don't think it's anything too hard, but probably worth running it for awhile before taking it all apart. I think it's 100hr service interval anyway, so maybe wait till then? But you're impatient and you can party way harder with the extra 2.5mm
> 
> Did you already order your frame?


Yes I got pics It just cleared customs so about 2-3 days.

If on a phone switch to full site to upload photos.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Haha please do


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Wow I really dig the paint job! Looks like a winner to me.

I started thinking about how the trunnion assembly goes together on the spark and realized I think the bearings are actually pressed into the frame not the side of the air can, like I assumed. This pic shows the stock shock and it looks like it only has threaded holes for the upper mount. I think the frame may need reaming to run trunnion.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Wow I really dig the paint job! Looks like a winner to me.
> 
> I started thinking about how the trunnion assembly goes together on the spark and realized I think the bearings are actually pressed into the frame not the side of the air can, like I assumed. This pic shows the stock shock and it looks like it only has threaded holes for the upper mount. I think the frame may need reaming to run trunnion.


Mine will be here tomorrow I can check it out then and answer any other questions you have.
The color is supposed to be hope purple.
My DVO forks also have custom hope purple decals.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Kevin your build is gonna be sick! So I found out the trunnion mount uses bushings not bearing. Peter with carbon speed said both the trunnion mount bushings and bolts are included with the frame. Is that what you received? Or was it standard hardware?


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So frame came yesterday. By the way I ordered thru miracle bike. It was well packed and it was actually in a felt bag inside the box. The quality of the frame and paint is higher then any other Chinese carbon frame I have bought this is my third. Both of my other frame the top headset bearing sat loose because the tolerance were off.
Purple it's good news that the trunnion uses bushings because I was gonna be upset if I could only get 100mm of travel.
I did not receive bushings with mine just spacers and traditional bolts. I have pics I just can't upload right now.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So I contacted Miracle bike about the trunnion bolts and bushings they asked me to send a picture of them because they have no idea.
So I contacted Carbonspeed and Velobike and neither will sell them to me.🤔
Miracle bike would be happy to send them to me if I can show them a picture of what I need.
So anybody that has ordered this frame from Carbonspeed and has the bolts please post a picture of them.
Hell they may just be pivot bushings and bolts now that I think about it.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

When I was on the phone with RS they said they sell both bushings and bolts for their trunnion mount. I asked if they were included with a shock and the rep said he'd have to check then call me back. I never heard back from him or got any part numbers but direct from RS might be the way to go. I also thought about ordering them directly from Scott?


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> When I was on the phone with RS they said they sell both bushings and bolts for their trunnion mount. I asked if they were included with a shock and the rep said he'd have to check then call me back. I never heard back from him or got any part numbers but direct from RS might be the way to go. I also thought about ordering them directly from Scott?


Cool I try with rockshox thanks.
So I contacted worldwidecyclery and they called sram sram said they include two sets of hardware but not sure if one will fit trunnion.
Also I asked WWC if they could remove the travel spacer and they said yes for $10😀.
So $352 with spacer removed and delivered is hard to beat.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So here it is Scott 2017 shock mount hardware https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/scott-shock-mount-hardware-for-2017-spark-frames-p327066

Trunnion mount is a go?


----------



## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

wrong thread


----------



## culoduro (Mar 1, 2014)

Is anybody running a Cane Creek Inline shock an the Miraclebike/ Yinshun 29er Scott Spark knockoff?
2017 first Look 29er XC bikes-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame

Clearance ok?


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Peter from xmcarbonspeed just sent me some pics of the updated brake cable routing on his version of the fs27. Looks like a huge improvement.


----------



## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

I just got done building an Ican P8, but the FS27 might just have to be next on the list to give a shot!!


----------



## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

Great news, did he mention whether the same changes would be made to the FS29 frame?

I contacted Miracle Bikes to ask them if there are any mods pending for the FS027/029 frames around the brake hose route, they simply sent back the attached images highlighting the rear deraileur cable route, for both the FS027 and FS029. Not sure why?


----------



## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

Peter from XMCarbonSpeed confirmed he can do the FS29 frame with the same rear brake cable route via the BB. it'll delay delivery by 20 days or so. US$630 + delivery.


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

a new frame... better finished, best solution cables routing, not a simple clone...

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/29ER...lgo_pvid=85ac5a6c-cee2-4e59-b094-68b4144f5b47


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Yes and no. This bike has a 69° head angle and I believe 100 mm travel front and rear. It's also non-boost and non-metric. I think this would be a great frame for somebody looking for an XC race bike who has old parts. But I personally wouldn't invest given non-boost and non-metric. The fs-27 is also very much a trail bike compared to this one.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

What's the max tire width for the FS29 vs the FS27 from XMCarbonspeed? It looks like they both fit 29x2.3" tires, so why couldn't the FS27 fit 275x2.8?


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PHeller said:


> What's the max tire width for the FS29 vs the FS27 from XMCarbonspeed? It looks like they both fit 29x2.3" tires, so why couldn't the FS27 fit 275x2.8?


The FS027 does fit 2.8. Seriously doubt 3.0 though.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Yea it's mid-plus. I think the fs29 is 29 x 2.2 while the fs27 is 29 x 2.3.

KVD have you got a chance to ride it yet?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Yea it's mid-plus. I think the fs29 is 29 x 2.2 while the fs27 is 29 x 2.3.
> 
> KVD have you got a chance to ride it yet?


No serious budget shortage 🤣
I'll be placing my shock bb and trunnion hardware order in two days. So 7-10 days I should have it up and running.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Siiick


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## babarnicle (Mar 6, 2010)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Yes and no. This bike has a 69° head angle and I believe 100 mm travel front and rear. It's also non-boost and non-metric. I think this would be a great frame for somebody looking for an XC race bike who has old parts. But I personally wouldn't invest given non-boost and non-metric. The fs-27 is also very much a trail bike compared to this one.


When you say non-metric, do you mean the rear shock? Nancy from Hong Fu game me all the specs on this frame. 165 x38mm rear shock which is metric. 
Perfect for a 100mm FS 29er race bike. 142x12 Thru axle is fine. Works with my existing wheel setup. Exactly what I am looking for. $650 for the frame plus shipping. I'll try to post weights of the frame when I get it. Hopefully in the next 3-4 weeks.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Check this out:










I guess in legacy it's called 6.5x1.5


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Also doesn't look like there is room for a trunnion mount for a 165 x 40, the metric version.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I think this would be a great frame for somebody looking for an XC race bike *who has old parts*.


Kool aid.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Hey, I have several great bikes with good parts that I can't move to a new frame. So I still ride them locally and have a bike I can win races on.


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## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

I'm a bit slow on the uptake - the FS27 and FS29 frames appear to be exactly the same except the FS27 boost rear end. It seems I should buy the FS27 and then I'll have the best of both worlds, running either 29 or 27.5" wheels. 

What I don't understand is how the rear travel figures differ between the FS27 and FS29?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

ChilternHillsRider said:


> I'm a bit slow on the uptake - the FS27 and FS29 frames appear to be exactly the same except the FS27 boost rear end. It seems I should buy the FS27 and then I'll have the best of both worlds, running either 29 or 27.5" wheels.
> 
> What I don't understand is how the rear travel figures differ between the FS27 and FS29?


Chances are there is a travel reducer installed on the FS27. More than likely the frame is capable of more travel before either linkage bind (without the travel stop) or rear tire hitting the seat tube.

I know on my Ican P8 it's rated at 120mm travel with a 200 x 51 shock, but the linkage will accommodate a 200 x 57 shock and still leave about a 1.5 inches between the tire and the seat tube at linkage compression. Which would net roughly 135-140mm of rear travel.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Im curious, can some of you guys measure your sagged BB height (ground to center of BB). My Ican P8 is stupid low! Sagged its about 10.25 to the center of the BB with a 27.5 x 2.8 tire and a 120mm front fork.

Im curious what these other bikes are. Im moving to a 140mm fork to try and increase that. 

Static with the 120mm fork and same tires is 12.25. 48mm BB drop. 

Sure is hard to ride technical trails! Ill see on Thursday what the 140mm fork does to increase the height.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

babarnicle said:


> Perfect for a 100mm FS 29er race bike. 142x12 Thru axle is fine. Works with my existing wheel setup. Exactly what I am looking for. $650 for the frame plus shipping. I'll try to post weights of the frame when I get it. Hopefully in the next 3-4 weeks.


please do post weight and impressions. i am looking at this frame or a M06.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

ftajiri said:


> a new frame... better finished, best solution cables routing, not a simple clone...
> 
> https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/29ER...lgo_pvid=85ac5a6c-cee2-4e59-b094-68b4144f5b47
> 
> View attachment 1152101


Iam looking at the same frame, but the tire clearance is really narrow. Only the fast XC tirex max 2,2" will fit this frame. Any bigger will skratch the frame :/ It is about 66,4 mm clearance. I have a FM036 that is around 74mm clearance, and in that frame 2,3" tires just barely fits.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

^^ max 2.2 tire is sorta a deal breaker 


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

funnyjr said:


> ^^ max 2.2 tire is sorta a deal breaker
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, kind of sad on such a nice frame.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

One thing I've learned about these Chinese merchants is if you bought the frame from someone other then them they will not help you or sell you parts.


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## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

Fair enough I guess. However some sellers spend a lot of time raising their profile on forums like this, so surprising that they are willing to risk this. Do you have an example? 

Unrelated but presumably the frames that we see across sellers, fs27 for example, all come from the same factory?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

One seller won't sell me a derailer hanger and another seller refuse to sell me trunnion bolts.
They basically say go talk to your supplier we won't help you.
I guess competition Is fierce.

I won't name these merchants but they are present in these forums.


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## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

Ok, couple of good tips there. Thanks. 

I don't see any harm in shaming the vendor, it might help sort their act.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I honestly don't understand how they make any money. You know their margins are pretty thin. And volume has got to be small. Based on these forums it seems like sales numbers on a given frame can't be more than 100 then when you Break that into 3 to 5 sizes you talking about a lot of tooling cost for very small production runs. Am I missing something obvious?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

They sell on 4-5 different sites and to companies who modify and rebrand them. 
We are a small minority here. Most people don't geek out like we do.😉


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

trunnion


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So I got my shock in today....😣😣😣😣
I ended up buying a 185/52 shock off pb for 100$. with the intention of keeping the trunnion bolts then reselling it.
Well in the process have learned that the mount holes are 8mm the trunnion bolts are 10mm so won't fit without drilling. 
But that doesn't really matter because the shock will not fit this frame. This frame doesn't have the same room the real spark frame has. So this frame is not a trunnion mountable frame.
Now I saw a seller claiming 120-130 rear travel. If I can get 120 out of a 165/38 then I will keep it. Otherwise I will sell to the first person with $700usd.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Damn damn damn! How can these guys tool up expensive molds and build carbon bikes AND not make a simple shock flange work with the intended shock?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Here is a pic you can see clearly a no go.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Because the bike was never designed for a trunion mount guys.... It's an inverted standard mount shock. Why use a trunion on a bike not designed for a trunion mount?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> Because the bike was never designed for a trunion mount guys.... It's an inverted standard mount shock. Why use a trunion on a bike not designed for a trunion mount?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


The bike was advertised as needing a 165x45 shock you don't get those numbers with a trunnion shock. 
Also one supplier said they ship trunnion hardware with the frame.
So how was in not implied that it will fit a trunnion shock?


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Well the manufacturer specified a shock length and stroke that is only made as a trunnion. And the flanges are almost the right spread for trunnion, I've never seen standard shock flanges an extra 28mm wide for no reason. So standard or trunnion it's poor execution.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Which one shows it needing a 165x45 shock? This is the FS27 frame correct?

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

If that's the case, it states 165x38 on XMcarbonspeed site. Which is a standard mount shock.

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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> If that's the case, it states 165x38 on XMcarbonspeed site. Which is a standard mount shock.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


That's the only one that says 165/38 that I am aware of. 
650B boost bikes-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame
I could give more links but most are in my AliExpress/Alibaba apps.

I bought from miracle because they gave me the best quote.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> That's the only one that says 165/38 that I am aware of.
> 650B boost bikes-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame
> I could give more links but most are in my AliExpress/Alibaba apps.
> 
> I bought from miracle because they gave me the best quote.


Looks like I would be getting a hold of miracle then.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> Looks like I would be getting a hold of miracle then.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Just buy mine then I can by a p8 and throw a DVO Topaz on it and be done like I should've in the first place.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Just buy mine then I can by a p8 and throw a DVO Topaz on it and be done like I should've in the first place.


I already have a P8. No need for an FS27 . But be prepared for a low BB height on the P8. It doesn't measure 324mm like the Geo states. It's closer to 12" before sag with a 27.5 x 2.8 tire front and rear, and a 120mm fork.

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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> I already have a P8. No need for an FS27 . But be prepared for a low BB height on the P8. It doesn't measure 324mm like the Geo states. It's closer to 12" before sag with a 27.5 x 2.8 tire front and rear, and a 120mm fork.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


I have a 150mm dvo diamond 29er fork I'm throwing on it. That should help. 
Hell I want the P9 but it says oem distributers only I sent a message to Ican with fingers crossed.

I shouldn't have a problem selling my pretty carbon/hope purple Fs027 for $700 shipped 😀


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> I have a 150mm dvo diamond 29er fork I'm throwing on it. That should help.
> Hell I want the P9 but it says oem distributers only I sent a message to I can with fingers crossed.
> 
> I shouldn't have a problem selling mine pretty carbon/hope purple Fs027


They will sell you the P9 without issue.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Good luck KVD. Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Here is a pic you can see clearly a no go.


Kevin, after looking at your photo, can you measure the shock body (trunion) width and see if it will physically fit in the frame? If you look above at the scott spark pictures you can clearly see that the air inlet is below the mounting holes on the shock body (or above if you are running it upside down like in the picture)

https://dfp2hfrf3mn0u.cloudfront.ne...COTT Sports_03_175985_jpg_original_zoom_1.jpg


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Even one like this (assuming it would fit in the frame itself) would likely work.

RockShox Deluxe RT3 Rear Shock 165x 42.5mm, Trunnion, MR/MC, 2017+ Giant


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> Even one like this (assuming it would fit in the frame itself) would likely work.
> 
> RockShox Deluxe RT3 Rear Shock 165x 42.5mm, Trunnion, MR/MC, 2017+ Giant


Pretty sure the picture doesn't match the shock. It should look like the one on this anthem. 









As an aside the shock pictured may actually fit on the frame, but who knows what length and stroke it is?


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

R_Pierce said:


> Even one like this (assuming it would fit in the frame itself) would likely work.
> 
> RockShox Deluxe RT3 Rear Shock 165x 42.5mm, Trunnion, MR/MC, 2017+ Giant


No I saw that picture of that shock and I was going to buy it.
But that shock is for a giant anthem and if you look up giant anthem pictures you can clearly see the mounting points for that shock.
And from those pictures you will be able to see that the pics of the shock for sale are not what you will actually get.
As a matter of fact if you zoom in the shock clearly see says 52.5 mm on the shaft.

That being said I think from pictures that the correct fox shock may fit but the trunnion bolts are still too big and the mount holes will have to be enlarged to allow the trunnion bolts to go thru.
I am not going to gamble drilling out those holes which are actually metal inserts to fit the bolts. 
If that drilling process goes wrong I am out 700$.
I am a 20k a year cook building a 6k bike I can't take that chance.

I really want this to work I am very smart and research everything because I can't afford mistakes but this is just not going to happen..

So I will sell take my loss and move on.

Thanks for your input though I appreciate it. ?


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

KVD I think I moved on too, I'm looking at canyons now as they have some incredible value and super light weight carbon and alloy frame.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Just for info p9 is quote at 730$ I will be ordering posting a build thread when I get it.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> KVD I think I moved on too, I'm looking at canyons now as they have some incredible value and super light weight carbon and alloy frame.


Sweet I hope you get everything you hope out of it. 
You have been very helpful.😁


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## ChilternHillsRider (Aug 13, 2017)

I've also given up on this project, for different reasons. I do not have a donor bike and when I priced up all the components it worked out I could buy a close to top of the range scott spark (the bike I was trying to replicate) with components much better than those I was shoehorning into my budget. It's a shame as I was looking forward to the build, guess I'll just pull my new bike to pieces and rebuild it!


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

ChilternHillsRider said:


> I've also given up on this project, for different reasons. I do not have a donor bike and when I priced up all the components it worked out I could buy a close to top of the range scott spark (the bike I was trying to replicate) with components much better than those I was shoehorning into my budget. It's a shame as I was looking forward to the build, guess I'll just pull my new bike to pieces and rebuild it!


I have found that the only way it's truly worth it is if you have a good base bike to start with (like I high end hardtail for example). Otherwise components just add up so fast!

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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

There is a boost version of hongfu fm058 frame it's called fm078



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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

eriklanden said:


> Iam looking at the same frame, but the tire clearance is really narrow. Only the fast XC tirex max 2,2" will fit this frame. Any bigger will skratch the frame :/ It is about 66,4 mm clearance. I have a FM036 that is around 74mm clearance, and in that frame 2,3" tires just barely fits.


There is a boost version of this frame the fm 078 I think. Probably fit a 29 2.3 tire but don't quote me.

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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Vance72 said:


> There is a boost version of this frame the fm 078 I think. Probably fit a 29 2.3 tire but don't quote me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was told that is was only the 27,5" (650B) version that had boost. I have only been i contact with Hong Fu, maby some other supplier has the 29" version with boost.


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## Vance72 (Jun 4, 2016)

You are most likely correct. I was hoping the 650b boost would fit a 29er tire in it. 


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Any 27.5+ bike should fit a 29er. I have yet to see one that would not clear a 29" wheel that is spec'd for a 27.5 x 3.0

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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Yes the problem is that the boost version of the FM078 from Hong Fu is just a regular 650B, not the plus.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

So anybody have any concerns about the flex stays on cheap Chinese frames vs those on the higher quality Specialized and Scott frames?

Hong Fu HF-FM058 

XM Carbonspeed CS-M06

XM Carbonspeed CS-FS27

DF-233 27.5er Plus Frame


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

PHeller said:


> So anybody have any concerns about the flex stays on cheap Chinese frames vs those on the higher quality Specialized and Scott frames?
> 
> Hong Fu HF-FM058
> 
> ...


There is some flex in the stays on my P8, but no more than there was on my hardtail from Framed (which is a US made carbon frame)

From what I have been reading, there is flex in most of the FS rear "triangles" This is my first FS bike though, so I cannot comment on that with any certainty.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

The P8 is a 4-bar/horst link, I think he was specifically asking about the single pivot with rocker/flex stay design.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> The P8 is a 4-bar/horst link, I think he was specifically asking about the single pivot with rocker/flex stay design.


Oh, I'm sorry! I misread that as flex IN the stays. My mistake fellas. Disregard!!

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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

No need to apologize.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Manufacturer said this frame will accept a 29" x 2.35" tire quite well.
Ebay - ICAN Full Carbon 27.5er Boost Suspension MTB Frame S/M/L BSA Rear 12x148mm


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

R_Pierce said:


> There is some flex in the stays on my P8, but no more than there was on my hardtail from Framed (which is a US made carbon frame)
> 
> From what I have been reading, there is flex in most of the FS rear "triangles" This is my first FS bike though, so I cannot comment on that with any certainty.


Yea, as others said I'm interested in the longevity of frames that are design to flex the rear triangle in place of a pivot back there. Somewhere I saw a great little graphic that showed this in application, but I can't find it.

Anyway, quite a few bikes have use or are utilising a flex-stay, but I feel like when these already cheap manufacturers start doing it that it could be a recipe for disaster.

More people need to buy the XM Carbonspeed CS-FS27!

Found one of a Orbea Oiz:


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

PHeller said:


> Yea, as others said I'm interested in the longevity of frames that are design to flex the rear triangle in place of a pivot back there. Somewhere I saw a great little graphic that showed this in application, but I can't find it.
> 
> Anyway, quite a few bikes have use or are utilising a flex-stay, but I feel like when these already cheap manufacturers start doing it that it could be a recipe for disaster.
> 
> ...


Buy one 

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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

flex wagons


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

PHeller said:


> More people need to buy the XM Carbonspeed CS-FS27!


Done. Just took the first shakedown ride last night. Unfortunately I have to iron out a couple issues before I can get a real feel for the bike. But as for the flexing stays, it doesn't move all that much, and doesn't take much effort. Were only talking a few mm of flex here, not a few cm. I have no concerns carbon will have a shortened fatigue life here any more than carbon handlebars would. And while the stays are intended to flex, the rear triangle is probably stiffer overall with the reduction of the rear axle pivot points.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Done. Just took the first shakedown ride last night. Unfortunately I have to iron out a couple issues before I can get a real feel for the bike. But as for the flexing stays, it doesn't move all that much, and doesn't take much effort. Were only talking a few mm of flex here, not a few cm. I have no concerns carbon will have a shortened fatigue life here any more than carbon handlebars would. And while the stays are intended to flex, the rear triangle is probably stiffer overall with the reduction of the rear axle pivot points.


How did you like it man?? What did you think of the quality? I can say that the Ican bike blew me away quality wise. I have also heard nothing but great things from the FS27.

And where are the pictures?!?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> How did you like it man?? What did you think of the quality? I can say that the Ican bike blew me away quality wise. I have also heard nothing but great things from the FS27.
> 
> And where are the pictures?!?


Quality was good. I already have a china carbon hardtail so I had high expectations, which were met if not exceeded. The fitment of everything was great, however the pivot points needed to all be adjusted tighter or looser. Also the derailleur hanger needed just a touch of straightening out of the box. I guess I could have used one of the two replacement hangers, but I decided just to beat it into submission. The frame weighed in at 2045g for the 19", lighter than expected. My oval 28T 6mm offset chainring fit, but just barely, so I shimmed the drive side out with a 1mm spacer. I'm running a 142mm rear hub with 3mm spacers on each side, and only needed a 1mm rotor shim (though I bought three just in case). The internal routing was a pain in the ass, but thats to be expected. My hardtail spoiled me, since it had full length routing tubes, and the entrance and exit points were molded into the carbon, not cheap plastic fittings. But overall, you cant beat the value.

The bike weighs in at 26.54 lbs with flat pedals but no dropper post.

As for the ride, I was pleasantly surprised how comfortable it felt coming from my on-one parkwood. The geometry felt surprisingly similar though on paper its quite a bit different. The FS27 felt slacker, obviously, and maybe a more forward seat, but the longer reach didnt feel longer at all. Very comfortable. Unfortunately the top shock mount bolt was a touch too long and I had a terrible rattle and chatter the whole ride, and I had some ghost shifting, possibly from chain suck, since it was a new chain with heavy factory lube. Those issues were so annoying it kept me from concentrating on the quality of the ride, but that's what I get for my haste. I blasted through assembly in just over an hour to get it ready in time. Some shortcuts were taken, but Ill address all the issues tonight.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Quality was good. I already have a china carbon hardtail so I had high expectations, which were met if not exceeded. The fitment of everything was great, however the pivot points needed to all be adjusted tighter or looser. Also the derailleur hanger needed just a touch of straightening out of the box. I guess I could have used one of the two replacement hangers, but I decided just to beat it into submission. The frame weighed in at 2045g for the 19", lighter than expected. My oval 28T 6mm offset chainring fit, but just barely, so I shimmed the drive side out with a 1mm spacer. I'm running a 142mm rear hub with 3mm spacers on each side, and only needed a 1mm rotor shim (though I bought three just in case). The internal routing was a pain in the ass, but thats to be expected. My hardtail spoiled me, since it had full length routing tubes, and the entrance and exit points were molded into the carbon, not cheap plastic fittings. But overall, you cant beat the value.
> 
> The bike weighs in at 26.54 lbs with flat pedals but no dropper post.
> 
> As for the ride, I was pleasantly surprised how comfortable it felt coming from my on-one parkwood. The geometry felt surprisingly similar though on paper its quite a bit different. The FS27 felt slacker, obviously, and maybe a more forward seat, but the longer reach didnt feel longer at all. Very comfortable. Unfortunately the top shock mount bolt was a touch too long and I had a terrible rattle and chatter the whole ride, and I had some ghost shifting, possibly from chain suck, since it was a new chain with heavy factory lube. Those issues were so annoying it kept me from concentrating on the quality of the ride, but that's what I get for my haste. I blasted through assembly in just over an hour to get it ready in time. Some shortcuts were taken, but Ill address all the issues tonight.


Nice!!! Can't wait to hear some more feedback on it! Did you by chance notice if there is a travel limiter on the pivot points anywhere?

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> Nice!!! Can't wait to hear some more feedback on it! Did you by chance notice if there is a travel limiter on the pivot points anywhere?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Oh yeah, there sure is! Travel is limited when the seatstay arch slams into the seat tube.  So no, no limiter that I'm aware of.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Oh yeah, there sure is! Travel is limited when the seatstay arch slams into the seat tube.  So no, no limiter that I'm aware of.


Did you by chance measure length between shock mounting points at full droop and full compression (when arch hits seat tube)?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> Did you by chance measure length between shock mounting points at full droop and full compression (when arch hits seat tube)?


No, I didnt, but theres plenty of room left with the 38mm travel fully sagged so I'm sure the 45mm travel shocks will work, assuming you can find a trunnion shock that fits down between the lower mount. What are you specifically looking to do (or answer)?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> No, I didnt, but theres plenty of room left with the 38mm travel fully sagged so I'm sure the 45mm travel shocks will work, assuming you can find a trunnion shock that fits down between the lower mount. What are you specifically looking to do (or answer)?


I was just curious is all. Curious to see what there was for room (instead of speculation).


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> I was just curious is all. Curious to see what there was for room (instead of speculation).


As far as I know, 45mm is the most amount of travel you can get in a 165 eye-to-eye shock, and I'm fairly confident the frame will take the travel. The hard part will be finding a shock that will fit, judging by the picture posted above. You wont be able to fit a bigger shock in there if thats what you were hoping.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

This frame looks interesting too.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Link or model name?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

I saw it on Ebay. Direct sales bikes.

EBay search - 222602331908 29ER bike frame
EBay search - 132107206145 27.5 plus bike frame accepts 29" wheels


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Ican P8 build finally to where I think Im content (suspension wise and all)


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> Ican P8 build finally to where I think Im content (suspension wise and all)


Looks great. What do you think of the frame? Are you happy with the quality? Do you like the geometry? That frame claims to have a 68 degree hta. Does this feel at all steep? The seller claims this can be built as a 29er also. Is there room in the back for a 29" wheel?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

There is room for a 29" wheel. I'm running 27.5 x 2.8 (plus tire)

The quality is amazing! It is as good or better than my US made Framed Marquette Carbon bike.

It's stiff. It's rigid. And not at all flexy. There is a little lateral flex in the rear triangle if you grab the top and bottom of the wheel, but it's not noticeable when you are riding. Absolutely love the bike!

My only complain is the BB height. It's only 324mm static, so gets pretty low when sagged. But that is the new trend so....

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

And no. It actually feels quite slack. I just measured mine with the 140mm fork and it's right at 67* head angle.

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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Thanks for the great feedback. This frame might even handle a 150mm fork. Raise the bb and slacken the hta, even if only slightly. I am looking to build a 29er. And this frame along with the other (Imust 29er) frame are contenders. This appears a little burlier than the 29er frame. But you can't tell till you build it up. How is this suspension for smoothing out the trail? And how is it for pedal bob when climbing?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> Thanks for the great feedback. This frame might even handle a 150mm fork. Raise the bb and slacken the hta, even if only slightly. I am looking to build a 29er. And this frame along with the other (Imust 29er) frame are contenders. This appears a little burlier than the 29er frame. But you can't tell till you build it up. How is this suspension for smoothing out the trail? And how is it for pedal bob when climbing?


Send me over your email address. I'll send you the linkage curves I had another forum member draw up for me.

It doesn't have much antisquat so it does peddle bob a bit. But the correct shock selection with a correct platform takes that right out of the bike. Its awesome at smoothing out the bumps (keep in mind I'm a 295lb rider so I have to run quite a bit of pressure)

Shoot me over your email on a PM and I'll send the charts.

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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I've got quite much sideways play here on my cs 036. Got new bearings. Anything to do about it?

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

haakonbs said:


> I've got quite much sideways play here on my cs 036. Got new bearings. Anything to do about it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, put the rear wheel in and through axle and tighen it down??

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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Still play


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

haakonbs said:


> Still play
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Play in what exactly? In the joint? Does the seat stay physically move inside of the chain stay? We need a little better description here.

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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Appears to be missing a spacer or bushing. Are the bearings properly torqued? Something like 12nm I think. Show this link to Carbon Speed.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

I've might have used the wrong bearing? 2 spacers. 1 on each side 


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Used 8x19x6


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

How many miles on bike till it needed new bearings?


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

These are brand new


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

haakonbs said:


> These are brand new
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Brand new bike has that much play. Hope there is a guarantee. You might be able to find some brass washers or spacers (maybe stainless steel) at a local hardware store if the seller doesn't warranty this. Probably the washers need to be small enough to catch the inner race of the bearing while not catching the outer race. Or better yet find a wider bearing.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

That's definitely not right. Why did you replace the bearing in the first place on a new bike? And what size was the one that you took out??

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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

The frame is not new. Just the bearings. I changed because of play


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Ah

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> Did you by chance measure length between shock mounting points at full droop and full compression (when arch hits seat tube)?


I finally took the caliper to this, and it seems theres almost ZERO room for error on this frame. The fully compressed limit was 4.7 inches or 119.4mm. Thats exactly 45mm travel on a 165mm shock. Also, theres no way to fit a larger shock in there, as the linkage binds up at under 170mm eye to eye.

Anyway, even if we were to find a trunnion mount shock that fits the FS27, you better be sure you never max out travel or you could potentially be sending the seat stay arch into the seat tube. Just one more reason the practical limit to this frame maxes out at 100mm travel.

Also, in case anyone needs to know, the mounting tab spacing was 21.7 on the top and 49.6 on the bottom.


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## mr_manny (May 15, 2016)

Is there a consensus regarding unified rear triangle vs multi pivot?
fs27, fm006, fm058 vs ican p8, p9


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

GuitsBoy said:


> I finally took the caliper to this, and it seems theres almost ZERO room for error on this frame. The fully compressed limit was 4.7 inches or 119.4mm. Thats exactly 45mm travel on a 165mm shock. Also, theres no way to fit a larger shock in there, as the linkage binds up at under 170mm eye to eye.
> 
> Anyway, even if we were to find a trunnion mount shock that fits the FS27, you better be sure you never max out travel or you could potentially be sending the seat stay arch into the seat tube. Just one more reason the practical limit to this frame maxes out at 100mm travel.
> 
> Also, in case anyone needs to know, the mounting tab spacing was 21.7 on the top and 49.6 on the bottom.


I'm going ahead with my build. After looking at extensive pictures I can see that the Scott version has a little more scooped out of the non drive side mount to make room for the air valve. And after looking at the fox shock compared to my rockshox I can see that the fox trunnion mounts are at least 5mm higher on the shock giving it significant more clearance.
Here is my plan I will have to remove a little material I think to make the air valve clear. I'll do this with a dremel. I am not concerned with sacrificing strength as the mounts are much burlier then the Scott mounts. Typically over built Chinese style. They would rather over build and add weight then have it break and harm their rep imo. 
I will also have the mount eyelets enlarged from 8mm to 10mm this again ok because there are metal inserts there more then enough material to remove some and still have plenty of insert left.
Dvo have told me they will make a Scott spark version of the Opal inline air shock I am sure I can get them to take a couple mm of travel out if it is indeed true that it has max 119.
I personally measured the rear axle travel at 128mm from open to stopped against the seatpost. So we will see.
It may be December before I can get my hands on an opal though it was just shown at eurobike 2017. DVO Introduces New Single Crown, Dual Crown and Air Shock - Mountain Bikes Feature Stories - Vital MTB 
Edit. Bryson Martin ceo/founder in a personal email told me towards the end of the year for Opal release though one site quoted April one quoted fall and another December. So I may be running a 165/38 for quite awhile.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Please please please post pics. Would love to see how your modifications work out. I doubt I'm willing to take the same risks at my weight, but I'm very intrigued none the less.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

GuitsBoy said:


> Please please please post pics. Would love to see how your modifications work out. I doubt I'm willing to take the same risks at my weight, but I'm very intrigued none the less.


I will post here and chiner don't worry. I can be a little more brazen about mods at 5'9 130lbs 😋


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Congrats KVD! 

Mr Manny. Ha no way, never! All these suspension layouts are copies of popular designs. The three you named in no order are vpp, single pivot rocker and Horst link. They all have pluses and minuses, which you should be able to learn about with some searching.


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## mr_manny (May 15, 2016)

Thanks PurpleMtnSlayer...will do some research


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

So I'm looking at the cc db air inline for my stand in shock for fs027+ till the dvo opal drops.
After doing some measurements I think it can clear sitting right side up air can on top.
The things on the bottom that stick out will clear by couple mm and offset bushings will give even more.
What I want to know does anyone see reason I can't mount it top up instead of inverted?


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

haakonbs said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I lookes like it is the bering itself that moves, happend to my FM036. I used Loctite 641 on all berings before fitting. Solved the problem.


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## haakonbs (Sep 2, 2010)

Locktite where?


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

I received my enduro P9 (ican), but still waiting on parts to come in to build it up. 

AFAIK - this is the most up to date design from all the China Carbon websites. From my initially measurements of everything:

1) Rear Triangle will have enough clearance to run 29" & Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 WT. However with shock fully compressed, and seat dropped all the way down, it will most likely hit your seat. I will fully confirm this once the bike is build up.

2) There's about 300mm of insertion length on the seat tube on a Large Frame. I am thinking of running a 175mm KS Integra dropper post fully inserted into the frame, but I still need to build it up to measure my height.

3) There's absolutely no protection of any sort on the frame (downtube, chains stays)


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm thinking to move to a FS from HT one and i'm also thinking to get a Chinese one! This is what i think it looks interesting! Any other suggestion?(looking for a Non boost, XC racing 100mm frame)


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

cycloholic said:


> I'm thinking to move to a FS from HT one and i'm also thinking to get a Chinese one! This is what i think it looks interesting! Any other suggestion?(looking for a Non boost, XC racing 100mm frame)
> View attachment 1158638


That looks like the CS FS29, right? I have the 27-plus boost version of that, the FS27, and its been fantastic. Ive never been more comfortable on a bike in my life, and the bike climbs way better than I expected it to. Supposedly there are more efficient FS XC racers out there, but if youre looking for something with a little more trail oriented geometry without the weight or losing efficiency, this is about as good as it gets in, IMO.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I didnt mention this is not a XC geometry! Actually this is why i posted here! So any other more XC competion frame suggestion?!


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

cycloholic said:


> I didnt mention this is not a XC geometry! Actually this is why i posted here! So any other more XC competion frame suggestion?!


Actually by today's standards that bike is VERY much XC related geometry....

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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

This also looks nice!!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> Actually by today's standards that bike is VERY much XC related geometry....


 I have to agree here. Its geometry is modeled after a bike with at least two olympic gold medals to its name. XC racing seems to be getting a bit more aggressive and chunky these days. This is a bike that will keep up with that. However if he needs something a with more classic geometry to dodge trees, it may not be the best suited frame.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok, so the geometry is similar to scott's spark!! If it works for nino it probably work for me too LOL.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> I have to agree here. Its geometry is modeled after a bike with at least two olympic gold medals to its name. XC racing seems to be getting a bit more aggressive and chunky these days. This is a bike that will keep up with that. However if he needs something a with more classic geometry to dodge trees, it may not be the best suited frame.


I ride the P8 which currently sits at about a 66.5* head angle with the 140 fork and we have some ridiculously tight and twisty single track full of trees. I have no issues. So this bike SHOULD rip through tech.

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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Also i found a 2015 cube ams 100 in a very good price(almost the same as chinese) in bike-discount! Whats your suggestion?!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> I ride the P8 which currently sits at about a 66.5* head angle with the 140 fork and we have some ridiculously tight and twisty single track full of trees. I have no issues. So this bike SHOULD rip through tech.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


I am still waiting for my Nextie rear wheel before my P8 build is finally done. Looking forward to it.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Any feedback for this one?: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/29E...lgo_pvid=72b9af94-7db5-4b26-90e4-e3dbf88363d9


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

cycloholic said:


> Any feedback for this one?: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/29E...lgo_pvid=72b9af94-7db5-4b26-90e4-e3dbf88363d9


no, but as a general manufacturer Hong Fu seems to have a very good reputation.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks! Is there a direct link of their products?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

cycloholic said:


> Thanks! Is there a direct link of their products?


Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

website is pretty generic at best. But feel free to contact them.

I will say from experience that Peter @ XMcarbonspeed is by far the best for communication. If you need that, and tech support its probably best to get a bike from XMcarbonspeed. If you are fairly knowledgeable and dont need tech advise or support then you can venture out a bit.


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

Inside the bering cups, you glue the bering inside its cup. Then it will not move under pressure. Loctite 641 is made for this and it is possible to press out the berins again when worn out.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

eriklanden said:


> Inside the bering cups, you glue the bering inside its cup. Then it will not move under pressure. Loctite 641 is made for this and it is possible to press out the berins again when worn out.


I find that much of the movement is in the oblong (pear shaped) nuts that the bearing screws fasten to. These should be epoxied in place.


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## babarnicle (Mar 6, 2010)

R_Pierce said:


> Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> website is pretty generic at best. But feel free to contact them.
> 
> I will say from experience that Peter @ XMcarbonspeed is by far the best for communication. If you need that, and tech support its probably best to get a bike from XMcarbonspeed. If you are fairly knowledgeable and dont need tech advise or support then you can venture out a bit.


Nancy at HongFu has been excellent to work with. Quick reply's and she answered all my questions. I have the FM058 on order. Hoping to receive it in early Oct.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

babarnicle said:


> Nancy at HongFu has been excellent to work with. Quick reply's and she answered all my questions. I have the FM058 on order. Hoping to receive it in early Oct.


Very nice!!

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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

These frames typically have an integrated headset. Is it best to press in the headset using grease, or using a soft thread locker such as Locktite green?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> These frames typically have an integrated headset. Is it best to press in the headset using grease, or using a soft thread locker such as Locktite green?


neither. Its a carbon frame so no grease. No locktite needed either. Simply place the race on the fork, place the lower bearing on, install the fork through the headset (lower bearing will center itself in the lower integrated cup) install top bearing, install spacer, install top cap, stem and top cap. Tighten top cap to remove any play in the bearings/headtube then torque down the stem.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

endo_alley said:


> These frames typically have an integrated headset. Is it best to press in the headset using grease, or using a soft thread locker such as Locktite green?


Integrated headsets are loose bearings that sit in the molded cups of the head tube and yes they need grease lots of it.
Press in cups need grease too but just a light coat. If you press it in dry it will require much more force and be more prone to creaking.

The only place I have ever used locktight on carbon is press fit BB cups.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> Integrated headsets are loose bearings that sit in the molded cups of the head tube and yes they need grease lots of it.
> Press in cups need grease too but just a light coat. If you press it in dry it will require much more force and be more prone to creaking.
> 
> The only place I have ever used locktight on carbon is press fit BB cups.


Im willing to bet that the cup in this carbon bike will not be tight enough to need grease.  I dont recommend grease ANYWHERE on a carbon bike that is bare carbon. I almost guarantee you that he can press the bearings in by hand with no issue....


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

If we are talking about an integrated headset, then you don't press anything. The bearing sit in cups molded into the frame. This bearing will move slightly even with a properly torque top cap. You need grease and lots of it or will creak.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


> If we are talking about an integrated headset, then you don't press anything. The bearing sit in cups molded into the frame. This bearing will move slightly even with a properly torque top cap. You need grease and lots of it or will creak.


OK, we will just agree to disagree. This is my second carbon bike and I have yet to have a single headset creak. And I have ZERO play in the headset and/or bearings. None once properly tightened with the top cap.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

alexbn921 said:


> This bearing will move slightly even with a properly torque top cap.


 Uh, no.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)




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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

alexbn921 said:


>


like I said, personal experience on two different carbon bikes with carbon formed integrated headsets has not provided a single creak for me. Im not greasing them. No need.

To each their own though....


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

babarnicle said:


> Nancy at HongFu has been excellent to work with. Quick reply's and she answered all my questions. I have the FM058 on order. Hoping to receive it in early Oct.


Great! What shock are you going to put? 165 and 190mm are both for XC with 100mm travel or am i wrong?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> OK, we will just agree to disagree. This is my second carbon bike and I have yet to have a single headset creak. And I have ZERO play in the headset and/or bearings. None once properly tightened with the top cap.


I guess I will install the headset without any more grease than what comes on it from the factory. As long as it doesn't creak then all is well. Having never dealt with an integrated headset I don't necessarily trust it to seat firm enough not to creak. But I will hope for the best. If it creaks in the future I will address that problem at the time.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> I guess I will install the headset without any more grease than what comes on it from the factory. As long as it doesn't creak then all is well. Having never dealt with an integrated headset I don't necessarily trust it to seat firm enough not to creak. But I will hope for the best. If it creaks in the future I will address that problem at the time.


if it creaks, it takes all of 10 minutes to disassemble and reassemble with grease if needed.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

*I grease mine. Various reasons. Here is part of discussion from other forum. Do some research and decide for yourself though. *

uote:
Originally Posted by JonD View Post
Hi All,
I'm servicing my 9 month old Ridgeback Flight 02, which has integrated cartridge races top and bottom of the headtube. They had a reasonable coating of grease on them when I took them out, but now I'm refitting them I am not sure whether I should grease everything.

The headtube doesn't appear to have any cups in it, just a 45 degree chamfer machined into the aluminium wall at the top, and a 45 degree chamfer on top of the steerer.

Having read this article http://chrisking.com/files/pdfs/Int2...sExplained.pdf 
it reminded me of something similar I had read about the importance of *not* greasing bearing seats in other applications, the theory being that you want the race to be the part that moves, not the shell in its seat. Plus if the shell can move around easily on the grease, it will exacerbate the wear described in the article, especially if the grease picks up dirt etc. The article was rather scary regarding irreparably wearing out the seat!

But, equally I don't want to find the shell becomes stuck in the headtube the next time I service it.

So, what's the wisdom on grease/anti-seize for installing bearings (not inside the races themselves, just the fit to the frame/tube)? Grease the seats lightly or not, and should there be any grease on the steerer tube where there bearing touches it?

Many thanks!
Jon
Grease or anti seize, your choice, the outsides of the bearings before inserting them into the seats. I also do the same to the crown race. Done so for 40+ years. Andy- whose headsets don't creak.
Andrew R Stewart is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-14, 08:58 PM #6

+1 I also grease both the exterior of the cartridges and seats of headsets. It prevents both corrosion and noise and the seats have never worn.
HillRider is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-14, 09:23 PM #7

I use a stiff anti-seize grease. This stuff is the consistency of peanut butter and is not suited as a ball bearing grease.

The grease serves two purposes.

1- it's a weather barrier and prevents water wicking between the two parts and making mischief.
2- it acts as a bedding compound, allowing the bearing find it's best place and prevents creaking later on.

There's plenty of latitude here, and just about anything except a dry fit will work. Even dry fits work, but if they creak, you'll go back to bedding the bearing in something.

FBinNY is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-14, 02:58 AM #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by 
Done so for 40+ years. Andy- whose headsets don't creak.
Thanks for all the great advice guys. I think you've convinced me to stick with some sort of grease/anti-seize. On Andy's point though I would say that 40 year old headsets won't have these cup-less integrated bearing seats which are cut into the actual aluminium tubing. I'm now just paranoid that if I wear the seat in the head tube the frame will be junk 
Just hoping someone can allay my fears!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

odtexas said:


> *I grease mine. Various reasons. Here is part of discussion from other forum. Do some research and decide for yourself though. *
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by JonD View Post
> ...


If the integrated machining of the frame wears out over the years, then I am sure locktite will be the necessary fix.


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## babarnicle (Mar 6, 2010)

cycloholic said:


> Great! What shock are you going to put? 165 and 190mm are both for XC with 100mm travel or am i wrong?


I'll do the 165 shock which is a very common size. Probably monarch xx with the single remote to lock our front and rear at the same time. I'm building this up for an XC and marathon set up.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

From which dealer you bought it?


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## babarnicle (Mar 6, 2010)

Does anyone know how long it takes to get a frame from China to the states? Shipping time? The carrier is EMS???


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

babarnicle said:


> Does anyone know how long it takes to get a frame from China to the states? Shipping time? The carrier is EMS???


mine took about 10 days


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

P-8 , 29er completed a few weeks ago.


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## shredjesse (Oct 18, 2017)

@endo_alley: That looks pretty interesting! How much did it end up weighing? What components did you go with? What was cost like.

I'm intrigued by the concept of building my own bike and having it be carbon fiber  Seems like you might be able to get a pretty radical bike for cheaper than brand new this way. I suppose having all the parts in advance is perhaps critical, that or sourcing cheap stuff on ebay?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> P-8 , 29er completed a few weeks ago.


nice man!! How are you liking it? What width are the tires?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Rims 40mm Nextie on DT Swiss 240 hubs. Sram 1x12 cassette and shifter. Next cranks. Fox dropper post w/ Wolftooth lever. 2.4" Continental Mountain King tires. 780mm carbon bars. 50mm stem. And the last addition done yesterday are offset shock eyelets which probably slacken head angle a little. The bike rides great. 13" bb height. The bike I have been riding is a Pivot Mach 6 which also had a 1 degree angle set to slacken head angle to 66 degrees or even a tad slacker. So this seems a little turnier to me on descents until I get completely used to it. Fairly light bike. Climbs well (even better if with a more powerful motor). Not much pedal bob.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Looks like it could handle a 2.6" tire front and rear if I ever wished to do so.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

This one from Workswell looks pretty interesting.

WCB-M-145-workswellbikes

It's a 100mm frame with a 68 deg HTA (with a 506mm A to C) and a 428mm reach on a medium. No Boost which would work out for me just fine.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

I added some offset bushings to slacken the bike a little.


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## mercenary (Oct 3, 2017)

awesome looking bike, I am thinking about building something similar.

Are you having any issues with pedal strikes? what length cranks are you running?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

mercenary said:


> awesome looking bike, I am thinking about building something similar.
> 
> Are you having any issues with pedal strikes? what length cranks are you running?


I am really liking the bike. BB is about 13 inches off ground with 29er wheels. At first, the bike took a little getting used to. I had been riding a Pivot Mach 6 with a 1 degree Aheadset to slacken the head angle to about 65.5 . This is not quite so slack in the head angle. Probably 67-67.5 degree head angle. But now that I am used to it the bike is fine. Cranks on this bike are 170mm. No pedal strikes to speak of.


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## masai (Jul 18, 2009)

Here is mine beauty, got it couple of weeks ago. Front 120mm, rear 100mm, head tube angle 67°. Best bike for ever (previous were epic s-works, Cube Stereo hpc 120mm). Light, hell fast whatever I ride, uphill or downhil. Perfect xc race machine. Only thing I dislike is quite thin bottom bracket shell and bottle cage thread rivets that are assembled too high. I reported the issues to seller and now i will get the new front triangle which the issues are improved. Not bad.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Nice looking bike. What supplier & model is it?


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## masai (Jul 18, 2009)

sclyde2 said:


> Nice looking bike. What supplier & model is it?


Thanks, it is http://www.lightcarbon.com/mtb_suspension-102-29er-full-suspension-xc-carbon-frame-lcfs911-lcfs911
size 17"
I think this is copy of Scott Spark RC. I haven't had change test Spark, but it should be a something special. Unfortunately Scott is bit pricey..


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## RobLyman (May 8, 2006)

*Finally getting sround to posting this.*

This is my iCAN. I have about 250 miles on it since October.

Built up from my single speed Lurcher.

Arch Ex Wheels
XT brakes, cranks, derailleur
Rockshox Monarch, Reba


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

Hey ican p8 owners.

Just ordered P8 frame and would like to know before I order the other parts

- what mounting hardware should I use to mount the rear shock (planning monarch RT3 or monarch plus rc3) the size of the shock should be 200x21 right? any links to purchase the mounting kit would be much appreciated.

- since this is a boost frame do you use both boosted front and rear wheels? looking at the yari boosted shock for 29 wheels... but if not regular fork would be Ok i suppose?

- what is the largest 29 tires can this frame handle? as far as i understood 24 fit nicely?

Thanks!


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## tskubi (Mar 21, 2011)

Here is my 2018 marathon beast, 
FM058 frame, custom paint & stickers. 
I let you look at the pics, feel free to ask for details.

Thanks to BIKE AHEAD composites for the RS wheels, Darimo Carbon Fiber for feather light cockpit & seatpost, Gelu carbon creation for the stunning saddle, KA Engineering for titanium ring & Garbaruk Bike Components for the superb 10/50 cassette.
9,380kg

Read the full story here 
and more pictures there



Details,


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

impressive weight. I am a little hesitant with the frame due to the low tyre clearance. 

I had a look at your thread. I struggled a bit with the french. 

About 9 pages in (of 22), you show a few photos of the tyre clearance. Does "RK 2.2" mean race king 2.2? Am i correct to interpret that you had a 57.7mm (measured) width tyre on there, and still had over 6mm clearance on each side? (from the tyre to the chainstays)

the technical drawing posted in that thread showed much less tyre clearance.

i see that your latest photos have a maxxis ardent 2.25 on the rear. what is the tyre clearance like with that tyre?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

_boo said:


> Hey ican p8 owners.
> 
> Just ordered P8 frame and would like to know before I order the other parts
> 
> ...


easily handles 2.4 Mountain Kings. Mine are mounted on 40mm outside width carbon rims. Recommended shock is 200x 51. But 200 x 57 works well and adds a little more travel. Why not go boost front and back? But use what ever front wheel and fork you like. I would recommend a 140mm x 29er front fork. Any less will make the front too steep in my opinion.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Are there any fs 29ers that have around 100-115mm rear travel, that can run a 130mm fork, and 66-67 hta? looking for a replacement for my smuggler frame that I can use for xc races or shredding the gnar.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> easily handles 2.4 Mountain Kings. Mine are mounted on 40mm outside width carbon rims. Recommended shock is 200x 51. But 200 x 57 works well and adds a little more travel. Why not go boost front and back? But use what ever front wheel and fork you like. I would recommend a 140mm x 29er front fork. Any less will make the front too steep in my opinion.


what are the bushing sizes for rear shock mount? and what headset are you using?

regarding the shock not sure if i can find boosted for an affordable price, looked at yari but can't find boosted in 140mm travel, pike would be a bit too much for my budget. also how about 150 mm travel?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

moefosho said:


> Are there any fs 29ers that have around 100-115mm rear travel, that can run a 130mm fork, and 66-67 hta? looking for a replacement for my smuggler frame that I can use for xc races or shredding the gnar.


Check out the 120mm Chinese version of the Scott Spark (non-RC).

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Check out the 120mm Chinese version of the Scott Spark (non-RC).
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Do you have a link?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

moefosho said:


> Are there any fs 29ers that have around 100-115mm rear travel, that can run a 130mm fork, and 66-67 hta? looking for a replacement for my smuggler frame that I can use for xc races or shredding the gnar.











I posted this photo earlier. Almost went with it. I bought the P8 instead. Ican P9 looks cool too. More suspension. 67 degree hta.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

moefosho said:


> Do you have a link?


XM Carbonspeed FS27 and FS29.

I dont know for certain that the FS29 will accommodate the full 120 mm travel, but the FS27 will, assuming you can find a 165x45 trunnion shock that will fit. Unfortunately it has not been easy to find one, so effectively we are all stuck at 100mm travel until someone finds one that fits. That aside, its quite a nice frame, and very light. The FS29 is 12x142 while the FS27 is 12x148. The FS27 will clear a 27.5x2.8 tire or a 29x2.4 (or so I hear).

Full disclosure, my clydeness did snap the alloy pivot bolt cranking hard out of a turn, but a replacement was shipped to me quickly. I'm planning on press fitting a Ti tube inside the hollow alloy bolt to increase sheer strength. But if youre not close to 230-240 lbs, I wouldn't worry too much.

CS-FS29 full suspension mtb 29er frame carbon bicycle frame - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

CS-FS27 27.5 Plus full suspension mtb bike frame BB92 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> XM Carbonspeed FS27 and FS29.
> 
> I dont know for certain that the FS29 will accommodate the full 120 mm travel, but the FS27 will, assuming you can find a 165x45 trunnion shock that will fit. Unfortunately it has not been easy to find one, so effectively we are all stuck at 100mm travel until someone finds one that fits.[/URL]


https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...unnion-mounted-165x45-kashima-coat-black-body


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...unnion-mounted-165x45-kashima-coat-black-body


Has anyone successfully fit this shock in the FS27? There's a lot less room than a Scott Spark. From the looks of it, the fill tube wont clear the mounting tabs. Looks like the same problem as the rockshox 165x42.5. But until someone actually tried, we wont know for sure.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> easily handles 2.4 Mountain Kings. Mine are mounted on 40mm outside width carbon rims. Recommended shock is 200x 51. But 200 x 57 works well and adds a little more travel.


so are you using 200 x 57 shock with 29er 2.4 tires with no problem? if so i'll go for 200 x 57 as well


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

_boo said:


> so are you using 200 x 57 shock with 29er 2.4 tires with no problem? if so i'll go for 200 x 57 as well


yes. I even tried some offset shock bushings to slacken the head a little with no problems.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

which size of the rear shock Mounting Hardware did you use?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

_boo said:


> which size of the rear shock Mounting Hardware did you use?


I think it was 22mm x 8mm top and bottom. Ican will confirm this if you email them.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

ok thanks!


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## eriklanden (Sep 1, 2013)

sclyde2 said:


> impressive weight. I am a little hesitant with the frame due to the low tyre clearance.
> 
> I had a look at your thread. I struggled a bit with the french.
> 
> ...


Iam also curious about how much space it really is. For me this is the only issue why I have not order this frame.
sub


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## tskubi (Mar 21, 2011)

eriklanden said:


> Iam also curious about how much space it really is. For me this is the only issue why I have not order this frame.
> sub


I have 5mm left for each side between the frame and my ardent 2.25 @ 1,4b


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

First time long time...planning for a big 2018 and need to swap out my HT for a FS. I have narrowed it down to a FM058SL or a NOS Tallboy CC. I am leaning toward the FM058SL with the Monarch XX. 

Couple of items I have learned during research:
- FM058SL now has a max tire size listed of 2.3 on the Alibaba site
- The SL adds $100 to the frame cost
- tskubi's thread has a lot of good data on the thru axle and pivots to support easy upgrade over stock decisions

I haven't purchased yet, but should pull the trigger soon as I am still debating paint.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

What frame is that?


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Has this frame been discussed or reviewed?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29er-T800-...hash=item3d4272b7a4:m:mHNfFA9zKmZfh-iybL50dKg


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Has this frame been discussed or reviewed?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29er-T800-Full-Carbon-Fiber-Mountain-Bike-Frame-Full-Suspension-MTB-Bike-Frames/263107819428?hash=item3d4272b7a4:m:mHNfFA9zKmZfh-iybL50dKg


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> Has this frame been discussed or reviewed?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/29er-T800-Full-Carbon-Fiber-Mountain-Bike-Frame-Full-Suspension-MTB-Bike-Frames/263107819428?hash=item3d4272b7a4:m:mHNfFA9zKmZfh-iybL50dKg


70 degree hta. 71 degree sta. Not what I would look for in a bike.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> 70 degree hta. 71 degree sta. Not what I would look for in a bike.


That's based on an axle-to-crown height of 514mm. A 140mm fork would push that to 550-560mm slackening both angles.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

According to my calcs a 550mm crown height would translate to a HFA of 68.26 which is kinda like the transition bandit


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Regardless of geometry, that's an ugly frame. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Regardless of geometry, that's an ugly frame.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Would it look better with several hundred dollars glued around the top tube?


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

BTW, why are you shilling for the Motorola DROID Turbo 2? I hope you're getting paid.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

anarkhos said:


> Would it look better with several hundred dollars glued around the top tube?


There are plenty of Chinese carbon FS bikes that don't look terrible AND are in the same price range.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

LOL, OK this is getting autistic. Bowing out.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> LOL, OK this is getting autistic. Bowing out.


I would look into the Ican P-8, P-9, or A-7 before this frame. I have a P-8 built up with a 140mm Fox fork. Pretty nice bike. Rear suspension is similar to Transition suspension. This is kind of an old school 4 bar suspension.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Heh, these guys don't like advertising model numbers, do they?

https://www.amazon.com/ICAN-Carbon-...6674580&sr=8-2&keywords=ican+frame&th=1&psc=1


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Looks like none of those are 29ers? I can't even see a link to the "A-7" (assuming that's supposed to be hyphenated. The others aren't, at least from what confusing blurb I'm reading).


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

This looks more appropriate, but WTF is that thing in front of the BB? Some kind of compartment?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/29er-full-suspension-carbon-mtb-frame_60513233864.html


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> Looks like none of those are 29ers? I can't even see a link to the "A-7" (assuming that's supposed to be hyphenated. The others aren't, at least from what confusing blurb I'm reading).


They are 29ers and will easily handle a 29" x 2.4" tire with plenty room to spare. I think it is S7. Sorry bout the mixup.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Ican P8 built with 29" x 40mm rims and 2.4" Mountain Kings.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

Here is another of their 29er frames. (I think Imust and Ican are the same). 67 degree hta 29er FS frame.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Hm, someone claimed they put a 29x2.4 on a P8 frame:
29" tires on ICAN P8 frame


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

I mailed them to see if the P9 takes 29x2.4 wheels.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> Here is another of their 29er frames. (I think Imust and Ican are the same). 67 degree hta 29er FS frame.


They appear to be allergic to using model names or numbers. So odd


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> They appear to be allergic to using model names or numbers. So odd


https://www.ebay.com/itm/IMUST-29er...331908?hash=item33d4220704:g:x9IAAOSwjS9Zgtvw

I don't know the model number. But a ten second search (Imust 29er frame) brought up this.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> I don't know the model number. But a ten second search (Imust 29er frame) brought up this.


Yeah, and the same store sells several frames, none of which have model names or numbers. Sometimes they mention travel, sometimes not. It's like they're purposely making it difficult. They may as well put all the frames in one of those claw crane games at the arcade.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Anyone reported on the "S7" frame (which is sold in various other web sites but without any mention of the model "S7" because reasons)?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=222135463032


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Interesting responce from ican (I asked if I could mount a 29x2.4):

"Sorry ,for P9 frame ,max tire 29*2.3''tire ,USD590/set (frame,headset,hanger)"


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> Interesting responce from ican (I asked if I could mount a 29x2.4):
> 
> "Sorry ,for P9 frame ,max tire 29*2.3''tire ,USD590/set (frame,headset,hanger)"


There are plenty of posts of people using 29x 2.4" tires on the P8, P9 frame. Why don't you ask them? Or take their word for it. The S7 frame has 440mm chain stays. Similar to the P8 and P9. So if the P8, P9 can handle 29er wheels the S7 probably can also. The P8 has more BB drop. And so even after upping to 29er wheels, the P8 BB will probably be lower than the S7 BB. I don't know that for sure.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> Why don't you ask them? Or take their word for it.


Just in case you missed it: I did ask them and I posted their reply. Are you asking me to ask them a second time?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> Just in case you missed it: I did ask them and I posted their reply. Are you asking me to ask them a second time?


You asked owners of the frame if it will handle 29" tires/ wheels? I didn't see any P8 or P9 owners responding.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

endo_alley, you should probably stop now. Unless your patience knows no bounds, this is only going to end in frustration...


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

sclyde2 said:


> endo_alley, you should probably stop now. Unless your patience knows no bounds, this is only going to end in frustration...


Thanks. I thought I might have misspoke earlier and wanted to clarify any obscurity. But really it doesn't matter either way. I really don't care what choice anybody makes. Others have given me good council in the past. I wanted to pass on the favor with what little I know on the subject. There are no doubt others with more knowledge than me.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

sclyde2 said:


> endo_alley, you should probably stop now. Unless your patience knows no bounds, this is only going to end in frustration...


You can say that again. Hurts my head just reading it. Endo good on you for providing the information. How are you liking the P8 btw?


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> You can say that again. Hurts my head just reading it. Endo good on you for providing the information. How are you liking the P8 btw?


It has really turned out to be a great bike. It took a while trying different length stems and stem spacers, and adjusting the seat forward and back a few times till I got the fit the way I like it. I like this particular application of the Horst link rear pivot. The first inch or so of travel seem to resist pedal bobbing. Once you get into the middle of the travel the suspension really opens up. The bike is light. It seems to remain reasonably stable at speed. But will turn on a dime at lower speed. The P8 is more of an all around trail bike than it is an enduro bomber. Unfortunately the bike sits in the garage for now. And out came my fat bike (and skis) for a few months.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

endo_alley said:


> You asked owners of the frame if it will handle 29" tires/ wheels? I didn't see any P8 or P9 owners responding.





anarkhos said:


> Interesting responce from ican (I asked if I could mount a 29x2.4):
> 
> "Sorry ,for P9 frame ,max tire 29*2.3''tire ,USD590/set (frame,headset,hanger)"


I asked ican and got a response.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

anarkhos said:


> I asked ican and got a response.


The truth is out there.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> First time long time...planning for a big 2018 and need to swap out my HT for a FS. I have narrowed it down to a FM058SL or a NOS Tallboy CC. I am leaning toward the FM058SL with the Monarch XX.
> 
> Couple of items I have learned during research:
> - FM058SL now has a max tire size listed of 2.3 on the Alibaba site
> ...


I was also interested in the FM058SL. However the guy at HongFu scared me off with what sounded like a 3 month wait for the lighter frame. Yesterday I ordered the normal non-SL frame, which they have in stock. I think there is a slight delay in the finishing (getting gloss coat), but hopefully it will be shipped out this week. When I get it, I will update this thread with weights etc, and document the build.

I am building it up mostly with parts I already have.
2014 Fox fork (ctd, factory, normal 46mm offset, remote)
xx1 11 speed drivetrain
Xtr M980 cranks, m985 pedals, m9000 brakes, CL rotors
240s hubs, new 30mm Chinese rims. Yet to build wheels, but reckon they'll go just under 1300g (even with brass nips)

I haven't totally decided on a shock yet. While I like remote lockouts, and quite like the hydraulic action of the xx WC fork on my 26er, I am not sold on the xx shock - it seems a Little bit old tech, and haven't found a great deal on it. Where do you think you'll get yours from? I am currently leaning towards the McLeod, which gets rave reviews, is quite cheap, but I am not sure it if is appropriate for a dedicated race bike.

I hope to get it built up under 10kg, which is what my 26er is. While the frame is reasonably light, my wheels will be light, and it will have a lot of carbon stuff on it (bars, post, saddle rails etc), I don't like to go too light on tyres (looking at tyres around 650g), or get any of that super exotic (prohibitively expensive) stuff, so i am not super confident that it'll turn out sub-10.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> I was also interested in the FM058SL. However the guy at HongFu scared me off with what sounded like a 3 month wait for the lighter frame. Yesterday I ordered the normal non-SL frame, which they have in stock. I think there is a slight delay in the finishing (getting gloss coat), but hopefully it will be shipped out this week. When I get it, I will update this thread with weights etc, and document the build.
> 
> I am building it up mostly with parts I already have.
> 2014 Fox fork (ctd, factory, normal 46mm offset, remote)
> ...


Three months!!! Oy vey!!!

The Monarch XX is being sold on eBay by 365cycles for $288.

Hongfu does not make a XL in the SL or non SL even though they advertise it. I am dragging my feet because I would have to run a 110mm stem on the large...


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## lisacycle (Jan 19, 2016)

FM058 sl frame : TanTan Sports Equipment Co.,LTD


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

lisacycle said:


> FM058 sl frame : TanTan Sports Equipment Co.,LTD


You should also look at Pro-Mance. 29er*2.1'' M9007. I got a very competitive quote from them and they have "super-light" Toray 800 frames in stock.

Nobody makes this frame in anything larger than a 19" btw, pure marketing inaccuracy.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

evolvebikes.ca/collections/framesets/products/alpha-29-carbon-frameset

What frame is that? Or is it one of those frames that cant be bought on ebay?


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## cbenj42 (Jul 16, 2012)

I recently built a size 20.5" Ican S8 and found to my great displeasure about 2mm of side-to-side play in all of the pivot bearings on the frame. I disassembled them and found that instead of Loctite, they were secured with c-clip springs.

I've never seen, heard of, or read about c-clips being used to hold suspension pivot bearings into a frame. Unfortunately, the bike is in the shop, so I don't have any pictures at the moment. Has anyone ever experienced this with a frame? I've browsed every build thread I can find, but everyone else's bearings seem to be properly installed in their frames.
I decided to go with the S8 based on the geometry and other users' positive experiences with their P8 frames, which seems to be as close to a trail bike as the major Chinese manufacturers produce.

I had my local shop loctite the bearings into the frame, but that has only solved about 75% of the flex in the back end of the bike. It's also interesting that KHS is selling the S8 as a "Team 29 FS." TEAM 29 FS - KHS Bicycles I wonder if their frames have this problem. Other than the weird back end looseness, the bike rides great and absolutely rips downhill. This frame is certainly one of the most progressive XC bikes on the market at the moment.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

I rode my P8 all last fall with no bearing problems. Very tight. In fact the suspension is very quiet so far. No squeaking, creaking, or clicking the way other bikes sometimes do.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> I rode my P8 all last fall with no bearing problems. Very tight. In fact the suspension is very quiet so far. No squeaking, creaking, or clicking the way other bikes sometimes do.


what do you think if 150mm fork with 29 wheels on p8? you have 140? what is you head angle?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

panzer103 said:


> evolvebikes.ca/collections/framesets/products/alpha-29-carbon-frameset
> 
> What frame is that? Or is it one of those frames that cant be bought on ebay?


Thats an Ican P9. It can be bought directly from Ican.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

_boo said:


> what do you think if 150mm fork with 29 wheels on p8? you have 140? what is you head angle?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


It would be just fine. Ill measure my HA here in a minute on my P8 with a 140mm travel fork. Give me a few minutes.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

_boo said:


> what do you think if 150mm fork with 29 wheels on p8? you have 140? what is you head angle?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Mine on a plus tire with a 140mm travel fork is a measured 67.8 degrees at static height. I am hoping to put an 18mm spacer under the bearings on the steerer tube to get it a little slacker.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

R_Pierce said:


> Mine on a plus tire with a 140mm travel fork is a measured 67.8 degrees at static height. I am hoping to put an 18mm spacer under the bearings on the steerer tube to get it a little slacker.


thanks. so i assume 150mm fork would give me 67 degrees. may be a bit less with 200x57 rear shock so i'll get around 135 rear and 150 front. hope the frame will handle this

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

_boo said:


> thanks. so i assume 150mm fork would give me 67 degrees. may be a bit less with 200x57 rear shock so i'll get around 135 rear and 150 front. hope the frame will handle this
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Im running the same travel shock in the back as you are. And I weighed in at about 300 lbs last year and rode this bike all year without a single issue. So based on my experience I dont think you will have an ounce of issue!


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

_boo said:


> what do you think if 150mm fork with 29 wheels on p8? you have 140? what is you head angle?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


I am not sure of the head angle. I have a 140mm front fork, and offset bushings in the shock to decrease the shock eye to eye down about 5mm or so. Probably a little slacker than 68 degree specification of the frame. It rides nice as an all around trail bike. I am sure the difference between a 140mm fork and a 150mm fork will not be night and day. And I am sure the bike will handle it. If I was to with a 150mm in the front, I would use a 200 x 57mm shock in the rear to increase the rear travel by 3/4 an inch or so. Bike can handle it, even with 29" wheels.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

Thanks for the input, i will use 200x57 rear for sure, but regarding the fork still hesitating between 150 and 140


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

140mm fork seems fairly well balanced for the bike. If you want to go big, maybe another choice is to consider the P-9. But if you want to put a 150mm fork on this bike I am sure it will handle it. As long as you are ok with a bike that has a lot more front than rear travel. It never bothered me that much. The BB height is low on this frame. So a slightly taller fork won't get your BB height too far out of whack. Main thing is it will slacken the seat tube angle a little.


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## 96Turner (Jul 22, 2017)

Has anyone ordered from icancycling.com? Is it a reputable site or should i contact icanbikes.com? The P8 (27.5+ boost Carbon) looks like it will work for a nice 29 xc/trail with all the parts I already have.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

96Turner said:


> Has anyone ordered from icancycling.com? Is it a reputable site or should i contact icanbikes.com? The P8 (27.5+ boost Carbon) looks like it will work for a nice 29 xc/trail with all the parts I already have.


Contact them through icanbikes.

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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

R_Pierce said:


> Contact them through icanbikes.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


i bought from icancycling.com no problems at all. fast replies on all my questions. and you can negotiate the price. ask for a discount.

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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

Which model is for XC and a full suspension 29'er?

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

J_Bone said:


> Which model is for XC and a full suspension 29'er?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


There are a lot of them. What are you looking for, geometry-wise?


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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm looking for XC, not an all mountain. Something with 120mm of rear travel and locks out good.

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

There are many. Check out the Ican P8 or the XM carbon speed FS27.


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## cbenj42 (Jul 16, 2012)

@tskubi

Has your experience with the FM058 frame been positive so far? Is there any strange flex or play in the bearing assemblies or under hard pedaling? I am considering Hongfu's updated FM258, but want to be sure that the frame won't have any small issues. The Ican S8 I own has too much flex around the pivots from poor manufacturing tolerances.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Whos got a xmcarbon fs29? It says 100mm rear, and front, looks like a scott spark with the upsode down shock, however it says 66 head tube angle. I could see if it was the 120 rear. Does this seem right, or a typo?

http://www.xmcarbonspeed.cn/full-suspension-mtb-29er-frame_p0090.html

They have a 110 rear, 120 front with 68 that reminds me of a Camber when i look at it. I would think it would have the slacker hta than the 100mm bike.

http://www.xmcarbonspeed.cn/29er-full-suspension-mtb-bicycle-frame-carbon-fiber_p0215.html

Im going to ask Peter if its a typo on the fs29, is anybody riding one of these?

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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Whos got a xmcarbon fs29? It says 100m IPm rear, and front, looks like a scott spark with the upsode down shock, however it says 66 head tube angle. I could see if it was the 120 rear. Does this seem right, or a typo?
> 
> full suspension mtb 29er frame
> 
> ...


The spark clone is 66.8 I believe. I have the fs027 which is the plus/29er. The geo is identical to the spark except for the stack height which is shorter.

I wouldn't get the 29er though. I would get the fs27 which fits plus and 29er and with trunnion shock will be 120mm rear. The fs27 will have more clearance and I believe the 29 is 142mm rear the 27 is 148mm.

I will say you won't be able to put a trunnion shock on it with out modification.

The bottom mounts are 8mm. Trunnion are 10mm so you will be stuck with a 165x38 shock instead of a 165x45.

Also the non drive side lacks clearance for the air valve due to it not being carved out like a true spark.

At some point in the future I am going to ream out the mount holes and use a dremel to make room for the valve.

Waiting on DVO to release the Opal before I do that though.

You can source a fox 165x45 shock now but they are 449$ and don't come with trunnion bolts.

There is only one place in the world to my knowledge selling the Scott bolts and I'm not telling.

You can however source them from other manufacturers because they are simply pivot bearing bolts.

I know more about these frames then the sellers if you have questions.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

J_Bone said:


> I'm looking for XC, not an all mountain. Something with 120mm of rear travel and locks out good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Check this Horst Link version out. https://www.ebay.com/itm/IMUST-29er...331908?hash=item33d4220704:g:x9IAAOSwjS9Zgtvw


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> I was also interested in the FM058SL. However the guy at HongFu scared me off with what sounded like a 3 month wait for the lighter frame. Yesterday I ordered the normal non-SL frame, which they have in stock. I think there is a slight delay in the finishing (getting gloss coat), but hopefully it will be shipped out this week. When I get it, I will update this thread with weights etc, and document the build.
> 
> I am building it up mostly with parts I already have.
> 2014 Fox fork (ctd, factory, normal 46mm offset, remote)
> ...


I finally got the frame a few days ago. Yeah, took them about 5 weeks before they shipped it, which was frustrating as they told me they had it in stock right before I paid for it....

Anyway, all is good now. Looks very nice, lot of carbon around BB, not too many imperfections. Bare frame with all bolts, but no shock or rear axle, weighed in at 1.96kg - for a 17.5" "standard" (T700) frame with a gloss coat. Will take some photos when I am a bit more progressed with the build. I delayed ordering all the required components until the frame arrived, so have a bit of waiting still to do. Still am waiting on some spokes for the wheels. I ordered a manitou mcleod. Will probably be another 3 weeks before it is all together.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> I finally got the frame a few days ago. Yeah, took them about 5 weeks before they shipped it, which was frustrating as they told me they had it in stock right before I paid for it....


I feel ya. I ordered a similar frame on January 31 and paid immediately. Then they went on 4 weeks of Chinese holiday, weren't able to get manufacturing up until two weeks ago, and now they finally painted it and are preparing to ship. I ordered a special-order extra light Toray 800 version though with different layup, so I don't blame them and I'm happy to wait, you just have to always plan for Chinese holidays, bc there's a lot of them.

Just keeping in touch with them and being positive really helps.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Just wanted to post that I have an Ican P8 medium frame for sale. Thinking 400.00 plus actual shipping from bikeflights.com

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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

R_Pierce said:


> Just wanted to post that I have an Ican P8 medium frame for sale. Thinking 400.00 plus actual shipping from bikeflights.com
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


why are you selling yours? i've seen you put a 150mm fork and 29 inch wheels.

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

_boo said:


> why are you selling yours? i've seen you put a 150mm fork and 29 inch wheels.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


I moved to a large size from the medium. Wanted a little more reach. Otherwise it wouldn't be for sale.

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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

It seems that within all these Scott Spark clones there are significant differences! I saw a German and a French guy build a clone up. But it seems most of you opt for the FS27 (CS-FS27 27.5 Plus full suspension mtb bike frame BB92 - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd) which has a 66.9 degree head angle. Can anyone confirm this is with a 130mm fork?

I also think the FM258 is interesting (Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.). It has a 69 degree HA (assuming 100mm fork), but using a calculator, I saw that a 130mm fork would bring this to 67.5 ish degrees. Spot-on if you ask me.


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## endo_alley (May 28, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> I moved to a large size from the medium. Wanted a little more reach. Otherwise it wouldn't be for sale.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Are you going with a P8 frame or something different?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

endo_alley said:


> Are you going with a P8 frame or something different?


I ended up getting a 2017 Intense Recluse SL for a little more than it would have cost me to get the P8 shipped to me.

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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

R_Pierce said:


> I moved to a large size from the medium. Wanted a little more reach. Otherwise it wouldn't be for sale.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


how tall are you?

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

_boo said:


> how tall are you?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


5'11" but I'm tall in the torso.

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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

R_Pierce said:


> 5'11" but I'm tall in the torso.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Yep, 5'11" is perfect for a large.

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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

And its gone!


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

HongFu has a FM289 on their website. Picture only shows '2018 NEW'. Anyone that has an idea what the frame might be?
I am thinking of getting the FM258, but this might be worth the wait...
Link: Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Are you looking for a hardtail or full suspension frame?

According to a thread on chinertown, the 289 will be a hardtail.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sclyde2 said:


> Are you looking for a hardtail or full suspension frame?
> 
> According to a thread on chinertown, the 289 will be a hardtail.


Thanks for the info. Looking for a FS! 
It seems, after reading around, that the FM258 replaces the FM058 with a better-placed rear brake (the 058 doesn't fit Magura well) and a different top tube. 
I see a number of people here own the 058. But does anyone own the 258?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Hey gents,

Any more thoughts on the M06 flex-stay "Epic-Esque" frame? It seems like getting a shock will be easier than the Spark-esque model. 

My worry about the flex-stays would be as a heavier rider, how long will they last?


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

I bought an FM06 (hasnt arrived yet) and im hoping it will be durable enough. Hopefully it will handle and be like a Kona Hei Hei or a Yeti asr c. Hoping and praying the flex stays will not snap right away, that would suck.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

panzer103 said:


> I bought an FM06 (hasnt arrived yet) and im hoping it will be durable enough. Hopefully it will handle and be like a Kona Hei Hei or a Yeti asr c. Hoping and praying the flex stays will not snap right away, that would suck.


Do let us know what you find!
I am holding off ordering the flex stay FM258 because they do not produce a 21" model yet.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

The flex stays are fine.
They only flex at the top of the travel.

How much they flex is determined by suspension not your weight.


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## cbenj42 (Jul 16, 2012)

olivierhacking said:


> Do let us know what you find!
> I am holding off ordering the flex stay FM258 because they do not produce a 21" model yet.


Apparently, Hongfu does have a 21" FM058 now, or so I was told. Its geometry is identical to the 258. It might be worth looking into.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks for the heads-up, I will check with them!
What do people think about the risk of running a 130mm fork in the FM258 or 058? Could it put more strain on the headtube area of the frame, increasing chances of it snapping?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

sclyde2 said:


> I finally got the frame a few days ago. Yeah, took them about 5 weeks before they shipped it, which was frustrating as they told me they had it in stock right before I paid for it....
> 
> Anyway, all is good now. Looks very nice, lot of carbon around BB, not too many imperfections. Bare frame with all bolts, but no shock or rear axle, weighed in at 1.96kg - for a 17.5" "standard" (T700) frame with a gloss coat. Will take some photos when I am a bit more progressed with the build. I delayed ordering all the required components until the frame arrived, so have a bit of waiting still to do. Still am waiting on some spokes for the wheels. I ordered a manitou mcleod. Will probably be another 3 weeks before it is all together.


How's your build looking? I ordered the SL version on January 31 from Pro-Mance and just got a picture from the agent today. Ready to send out! It took longer because of the Chinese new year holiday in February, paint decal order, and on-demand manufacturing. But it should be lighter. Can't wait! Good deal at $800 all said and done (frame, shipping, painting, fees).






.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

anarkhos said:


> Has this frame been discussed or reviewed?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/29er-T800-...hash=item3d4272b7a4:m:mHNfFA9zKmZfh-iybL50dKg


Well it looks just like this. I didn't compare the rest of the numbers. Surprised no one mentioned it looked like this. https://www.cannondale.com/en/Inter...c5f-487b-a610-539cfed71239&parentid=undefined


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

sissypants said:


> How's your build looking? I ordered the SL version on January 31 from Pro-Mance and just got a picture from the agent today. Ready to send out! It took longer because of the Chinese new year holiday in February, paint decal order, and on-demand manufacturing. But it should be lighter. Can't wait! Good deal at $800 all said and done (frame, shipping, painting, fees).


Coincidentally, I am finishing up the build today. I finally received the last of the parts (some spokes for the new wheels) 4 days ago, and have since been spending every spare moment putting it together.

I have moved bunch of parts over from the old bikes (fork/drivetrain/brakes etc). Despite a few heavy parts, it looks like it will be just under 10.3kg, ready to race (incl bottle cage, Garmin stuff etc). I have a few bits that I will replace (have a carbon railled saddle, will get a light seatpost clamp to replace the heavy cheap QR, might get a setback seatpost), and will swap the tubes out for sealant when I am happy with the wheels, but otherwise plan to race it as is.

If I had gotten the SL frame and replaced the fork with something more modern (have been looking at 51mm offset forks, which I think this frame is designed for), i probably could have built this up under 10kg.

I'm gonna put up a new thread detailing the build, documenting all the parts and their weights, on chinertown. Will add a link here when I do.

I see your frame has the newer rear end, with the brake mount on the seat stay. I thought that was for the 258, not the 058. Are you getting the 142mm rear end or boost?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

spunkmtb said:


> Well it looks just like this. I didn't compare the rest of the numbers. Surprised no one mentioned it looked like this. https://www.cannondale.com/en/Inter...c5f-487b-a610-539cfed71239&parentid=undefined


They look nothing alike.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

That Workswell WCB-M-145 looks pretty sweet. I wonder how long before that mold pops up at Hong Fu.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

PHeller said:


> They look nothing alike.


Lol, you are correct. i must have been smoking some good rock that day.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

PHeller said:


> That Workswell WCB-M-145 looks pretty sweet. I wonder how long before that mold pops up at Hong Fu.


I messaged them about that frame a few months ago. At the time they didn't have the mold ready. Maybe it's available by now.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Anyone been on the FM-DH181 frame (from Tideace)? They told me it replaces the DH029 frame (the Spark lookalike with a 66* head angle). Feedback on this new frame is from the old frame so that it already has a good review.

If I go for it, I would be slapping a 130mm fork on there, bringing the HA to 68.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ndlebar-deputy-to-split-the/32802190393.html?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> Anyone been on the FM-DH181 frame (from Tideace)? They told me it replaces the DH029 frame (the Spark lookalike with a 66* head angle). Feedback on this new frame is from the old frame so that it already has a good review.
> 
> If I go for it, I would be slapping a 130mm fork on there, bringing the HA to 68.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ndlebar-deputy-to-split-the/32802190393.html?


That is a nice looking frame! I like the specs and design and all, but I will say the folks at Tideace can be a bit sleazy. I ordered 5 hardtail frames of 2 different models in December and January that were supposedly in stock (I asked), and only just recently got 3 of them. Communication was awful, excuses were questionable, and I will not be ordering via Aliexpress from them again.

If you want a steeper HA there are other options which are lighter as well.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sissypants said:


> That is a nice looking frame! I like the specs and design and all, but I will say the folks at Tideace can be a bit sleazy. I ordered 5 hardtail frames of 2 different models in December and January that were supposedly in stock (I asked), and only just recently got 3 of them. Communication was awful, excuses were questionable, and I will not be ordering via Aliexpress from them again.
> 
> If you want a steeper HA there are other options which are lighter as well.


That's a shame to hear. They have been very responsive to my messages and also speak English relatively well. I will ask to be sure about the 21" frame being in stock then. But now it feels a bit risky...


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> But now it feels a bit risky...


It's not risky if you're ordering through Aliexpress since you can always get a refund, you may just never get the frame. My brother ordered their Toray 1000 29er hardtail before Christmas and when he didn't have it by April he just filed for a refund. He got the refund very quickly but never got the frame. Just make sure your insurance period (90 days from shipment or something like that) doesn't end before you take action.

My advice if you are going forward with this is to check if its in stock, get an estimated time for order processing, and hold them to it. They do care about their seller ratings.


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

Anyone riding the Pro-mance M7007 frame? Thoughts? Want to run it as a 29er. Can't tell if the shock is metric or not. Any thoughts?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

artsn said:


> Anyone riding the Pro-mance M7007 frame? Thoughts? Want to run it as a 29er. Can't tell if the shock is metric or not. Any thoughts?


The descriptions of M7007 and M9007 are very confusing on their website, but if I remember correctly, the agent at Pro-Mance told me M7007 is not compatible with 29" while M9007 is designed for 29" and that there was a real difference in the rear triangle design. A little bit head-scratching, but why not just play it safe and get the M9007? I believe they have boost and non-boost options available for both models. Ask about the details, and I'd only get what is in stock, otherwise you'll be waiting a while.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

PHeller said:


> That Workswell WCB-M-145 looks pretty sweet. I wonder how long before that mold pops up at Hong Fu.


That might be "the one"
Although I would be tempted or really prefer to run it with a 120mm fork and slacken it to just over 67 HA. Another question mark on all of these china frames is the rear tire clearance. I am only interested if I can easily fit a 2.4 - 2.5 higher volume tire in there. These 100mm bikes really need that high volume to take the sting out and make for a faster running rear to smooth things out. Nice looking though!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

NH Mtbiker said:


> That might be "the one"
> Although I would be tempted or really prefer to run it with a 120mm fork and slacken it to just over 67 HA. Another question mark on all of these china frames is the rear tire clearance. I am only interested if I can easily fit a 2.4 - 2.5 higher volume tire in there. These 100mm bikes really need that high volume to take the sting out and make for a faster running rear to smooth things out. Nice looking though!


Well, if you take a look at the detail page (WCB-M-145-workswellbikes) they clearly indicate the frame is designed to accommodate at most a 29x2.3" tire in the rear. Based on experience, bottoming out on your suspension with a bigger tire than recommended in the rear can mean frame breakage and one complicated warranty claim.

I like the frame a lot, it's great to see the Chinese stepping up their game in terms of aesthetics and geometry. We'll be seeing a lot more of that!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

tskubi said:


> I have 5mm left for each side between the frame and my ardent 2.25 @ 1,4b


tskubi, what did you need to mount your shock to your frame? Or did all the necessary mounting hardware come with your frame? Was it cheap plastic parts or can you buy better stuff online?


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

The 7007 does fit 29er, its on their website, cad drawings and on their invoice. 
The 9007 has the brakes mounted in the seatstay which I would disagree unless I see someone that has the frame and confirms no flex in the seatstay with the travel.
Also the 9007 accepts larger chainrings as they probably squeezed a bit of the chainstay and that might lead to less space for larger tires.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

sissypants said:


> The descriptions of M7007 and M9007 are very confusing on their website, but if I remember correctly, the agent at Pro-Mance told me M7007 is not compatible with 29" while M9007 is designed for 29" and that there was a real difference in the rear triangle design. A little bit head-scratching, but why not just play it safe and get the M9007? I believe they have boost and non-boost options available for both models. Ask about the details, and I'd only get what is in stock, otherwise you'll be waiting a while.


My previous reply was in regards to this.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

sissypants said:


> How's your build looking? I ordered the SL version on January 31 from Pro-Mance and just got a picture from the agent today. Ready to send out! It took longer because of the Chinese new year holiday in February, paint decal order, and on-demand manufacturing. But it should be lighter. Can't wait! Good deal at $800 all said and done (frame, shipping, painting, fees).
> View attachment 1192018
> .


Have you received your frame yet ? Haven't seen you posting in a while, looks like you received, built and went for a really long ride.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

I got my bike completely built up on Saturday and have only managed to get in one short ride so far. I'll photograph and write up an initial review tonight and post here. All first impressions are very positive. Weight was 20.9 pounds with Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25" tires. Total build cost ~$3500 from new or lightly used parts online. It's a rocket!

In regards to your question about the brake mount on the seat stay, it makes routing awkward, as the internal routing port is quite far down the side of the chain stay towards the axle. Apart from looking awkward, however, I haven't noticed any changes to suspension feel or any flexing in the seat stay beyond normal.


----------



## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

sissypants said:


> I got my bike completely built up on Saturday and have only managed to get in one short ride so far. I'll photograph and write up an initial review tonight and post here. All first impressions are very positive. Weight was 20.9 pounds with Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25" tires. Total build cost ~$3500 from new or lightly used parts online. It's a rocket!
> 
> In regards to your question about the brake mount on the seat stay, it makes routing awkward, as the internal routing port is quite far down the side of the chain stay towards the axle. Apart from looking awkward, however, I haven't noticed any changes to suspension feel or any flexing in the seat stay beyond normal.


I thought you had ordered the version with the brake mounted in the chainstay. That's the one I ordered.

Before building did the rear triangle moved freely ? If yes then there should not be any flex. On the M06 for example it does not move freely. The seatstay act as a spring.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

I finished my M9007 build at 21lbs and have 30 singletrack miles on it so far--absolutely amazing.

I've reviewed it in depth in a separate post here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/21lb-fs-29er-build-pro-mance-m9007-1076993.html


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Nice build!

Looks like the Hongfu Spark model in boost is now available. Very close geo to RC 900. 1950g. $806 shipped.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Bicycle-Frame-FM258-UD-Matte/32854379761.html

View attachment 1196235


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Wow, amazing build there! Curious how those wheels hold up.

I ordered the Tideace FM-DH181 some two weeks ago, they needed 4 days extra prep time for the 21" model "in order to guarantee quality".
I will share first impressions when I receive it!

Edit, link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ndlebar-deputy-to-split-the/32802190393.html?


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## tskubi (Mar 21, 2011)

sissypants said:


> tskubi, what did you need to mount your shock to your frame? Or did all the necessary mounting hardware come with your frame? Was it cheap plastic parts or can you buy better stuff online?


Standard Dt Swiss mounting hardware.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

How do you pick a rear shock for a single pivot bike? Don't namebrands typically put a pedaling platform on a shock for a single pivot bike? I know Trek does. How do you arrive at a suitable aftermarket shock for a single pivot bike?

Always been confusing to me..


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

givemefive said:


> How do you pick a rear shock for a single pivot bike? Don't namebrands typically put a pedaling platform on a shock for a single pivot bike? I know Trek does. How do you arrive at a suitable aftermarket shock for a single pivot bike?
> 
> Always been confusing to me..


Why is this confusing? I don't mean to be rude, but Trek does nothing different than get a shock, put some hardware in there, and make some proprietary changes so they can pull marketing BS over your ears. You just go get the shock, buy the hardware kits, and put the shock in there. Yeah typically namebrands will sell framesets with shocks. That's not economical for the Chinese, but compare a Trek/Scott $3500 frameset with a shock to a name-brand and a $600 frameset without a shock from China and you will never see Trek or Scott in the same light again.


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

Just curious really, You see VPP or dw-link bikes running stock shocks but a lot of the single pivot players have some proprietary bullshit on their shocks to compensate. If the stock shocks from Fox or RS or whoever give good performance then that's great..


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

givemefive said:


> proprietary bullshit


Amen. My Fox DPS Factory shock is awesome even though it lacks Brain and Nude "technology". Please keep it stupid and clothed.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sissypants said:


> That is a nice looking frame! I like the specs and design and all, but I will say the folks at Tideace can be a bit sleazy. I ordered 5 hardtail frames of 2 different models in December and January that were supposedly in stock (I asked), and only just recently got 3 of them. Communication was awful, excuses were questionable, and I will not be ordering via Aliexpress from them again.
> 
> If you want a steeper HA there are other options which are lighter as well.


Well, I ordered the frame on 18 April, and they said they had it in stock. Only last week they sent me a picture of the frame painted and all, and it really did look good (see below). But they had many unreasonable excuses for taking so long.
Now, they are not shipping it. I asked a Chinese friend to send them a message in Chinese, threatening to cancel me order. They replied that the frame has a break in the chain stay...
So I am considering to open a dispute now. They really are sleazy indeed.


----------



## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> Well, I ordered the frame on 18 April, and they said they had it in stock. Only last week they sent me a picture of the frame painted and all, and it really did look good (see below). But they had many unreasonable excuses for taking so long.
> Now, they are not shipping it. I asked a Chinese friend to send them a message in Chinese, threatening to cancel me order. They replied that the frame has a break in the chain stay...
> So I am considering to open a dispute now. They really are sleazy indeed.
> View attachment 1202603


Nice looking frame indeed! Looks like a pleasure to ride, were it not for the "broken chainstay". DUDE WTF! No pics of the "broken chainstay"? Looks solid to me. I'd bet a lot that they lied about it being in stock just to keep your business.

They understand you, they use Aliexpress translate (powered by Google). That's not the issue.

How many days do you have left to open a dispute? Better keep an eye on that because after that expires they could get away without ever shipping it. If you open a dispute you will get your money back.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

They always say it's in stock. They get your money then take their sweet time knowing it's a pita to get it back.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sissypants said:


> Nice looking frame indeed! Looks like a pleasure to ride, were it not for the "broken chainstay". DUDE WTF! No pics of the "broken chainstay"? Looks solid to me. I'd bet a lot that they lied about it being in stock just to keep your business.
> 
> They understand you, they use Aliexpress translate (powered by Google). That's not the issue.
> 
> How many days do you have left to open a dispute? Better keep an eye on that because after that expires they could get away without ever shipping it. If you open a dispute you will get your money back.


They extended purchase protection so I still have 30 days of protection. 
They sent a picture of the fracture, it looks to me like paint only. Anyway, I still have enough faith in them to hold off of opening a dispute. They did make the frame after all.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> They extended purchase protection so I still have 30 days of protection.
> They sent a picture of the fracture, it looks to me like paint only. Anyway, I still have enough faith in them to hold off of opening a dispute. They did make the frame after all.
> View attachment 1202769


Well at least their QC department is holding it up. It would be sleazier if they just sent it out as is.


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## _boo (Dec 11, 2017)

ican p8 build done









Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Brodon (Jul 16, 2013)

There was a very valid question about shock choice posted earlier that got blown off. Most manufacturers typically apply a specific tune to their bikes based on the suspension design properties. Is there any resource that one can reference that shows these properties for the chinese frames? The pro mance 9007 or similar bikes are very interesting to me but I am somewhat concerned that I would not enjoy the ride from a shock with the stock tune.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

I received my frame from Tideace a week ago or so and have started building it. Right off the bat, I was impressed by the frame's structure. Also happy a wide 2.2" tire on a 30mm ID rim has plenty of clearance in the 27.5+ boost frame!

However, there were some issues.

1. Derailleur hanger was broken during shipping. They sent a new one, so now I need to wait 2 weeks again.

2. No bushings included (which is OK), but with the correct ones installed (50mm bottom and 21.8mm top) there is some play in the system. Dropping the bike on the rear wheel results in some rattling. Will have to look into this.

3. Seat angle is NOT as steep as it should be. It should be around 74* with a 100mm fork. I am running a 130mm fork, which means it should be 72-73*. But right now it is pretty much 68*. This is not good for me, as I have long legs! The saddle in the picture is quite a bit lower than it should be for me still. 

Will keep you updated.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Are you measuring the angle of the imaginary line that is the straight line between the centre of the BB and the centre of the saddle rail clamp?

Or are you measuring the angle of the seatpost?


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sclyde2 said:


> Are you measuring the angle of the imaginary line that is the straight line between the centre of the BB and the centre of the saddle rail clamp?
> 
> Or are you measuring the angle of the seatpost?


My mistake, I measured only the seatpost itself. I will let you know the actual angle at my riding height later.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Brodon said:


> There was a very valid question about shock choice posted earlier that got blown off. Most manufacturers typically apply a specific tune to their bikes based on the suspension design properties. Is there any resource that one can reference that shows these properties for the chinese frames? The pro mance 9007 or similar bikes are very interesting to me but I am somewhat concerned that I would not enjoy the ride from a shock with the stock tune.


Yeah this is a valid question, but here's my humble opinion FWIW. Every rider is different and has different needs, so no matter how frame-optimized kinematics may be, they are assuming every rider is the same. Ultimately it's how *YOU* want your suspension to feel. I took my setup on dozens of rides on dozens of trails while experimenting with different setups. I enjoyed the process, and ultimately was very satisfied with how my shock was working with the frame.

I ride the Pro mance 9007 and settled in on a shock tune on my Fox Factory DPS 6.5" x 1.5" at around 160 psi, that's the way I like it and it fit my weight, style, and local trails really well. It felt just like my buddy's Spark. No worries there!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> 2. No bushings included (which is OK), but with the correct ones installed (50mm bottom and 21.8mm top) there is some play in the system. Dropping the bike on the rear wheel results in some rattling. Will have to look into this.


Great looking start to your build! It looks to be a sweet frame and you're definitely solid on the specs.

I had the same issue with some play in the shocks. First off, kudos on getting the right bushing kits (first time around, I'm assuming). Took me 3 tries and $30 of wasted money in Fox bushing kits. I'll blame my naievety, not much excuse from my side.

Anyway, I still had a very small amount of play between the Fox bushing and the pocket bolt provided with the frame. It's like it wasn't a true M5 bolt. One thing I always wanted to try was getting the M5 titanium pocket bolts from Aliexpress (Risk brand), but I sold everything off and am on to another build project. Hope you can solve that play issue, and post up when you do!


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## srmanuel (Oct 31, 2017)

anyone got info in the wcb m 145 ?WCB-M-145-workswellbikes

I wish it could fit a 34 oval chain ring (32/36 curvature)


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

*Stealth dropper mod on fm036*

hi all,

Just an update on my well worn Fm036, which i've now modded with a dropper post.

First step was too feed plumbers tape from head tube through to seat tube exit with aid of a vacuum cleaner. The bottom bracket stays put because the shell is a sealed unit and the tape passes through the hollow juncture of seat tube and downtube just above.

Next, attach cable outer to plumbtape and pull through frame.

I then marked out the position and profile of the pushfit grommet i was going to use to run the internal cable. Next was to drill 3 small pilot holes within the area marked progressively making them bigger with different drill bits until they merged as one.

Smooth out the rough hole to fit your grommet and remove burrs.

Fish out the cable outer and set up your grommet before feeding the wire cable through outer for your dropper set up. Push home grommet for a tight fit.

Grommets are Orange Bicycles internal cable guide spare parts.

I don't feel the frame is compromised as i've done the coin tapping for fracture test before and after a ride and all is well. This is all I have to go on plus I don't envisage this being a stressed area for a small hole.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

olivierhacking said:


> However, there were some issues.
> 
> ) there is some play in the system. Dropping the bike on the rear wheel results in some rattling Will have to look into this.
> 
> Will keep you updated.


hi

For me ,solving rattling back end of my FM036 when you lift bike up or set it down meant adding shims alongside the bushings at each shock eyelet.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

A lengthy update on my 21" Tideace FM-XC181 from AliExpress.

I have now gone on two 50km rides on my new build and must say I am impressed with the frame's performance. I weigh 88kg (194lbs) with my kit and have really tried to put some stress on the frame - for as far as that's possible on the relatively flat Dutch trails.

I am running the frame with a Fox 34 130mm fork, resulting in this old/ new geo:







Manual measurements seem to correspond quite well with those numbers.

I think the long 14cm headtube and the amount of material there enables the longer fork to work without risk of frame damage. The seller, Derek, said 130mm is the maximum permitted anyway.

Before I talk about other points, let me share some pictures of the build!
























I took a risk and ordered the 27.5+ boost frame option to fit my 29" wheels - no problem! I am running 30mm internal rims with Bonty 2.2 XR1/ 2.3 XR3 Team Issue tires. The XR1 has heaps of clearance left, I reckon a 2.4 will fit well with sufficient clearance.

The entire build comes in at around 11.9kg, which I am happy with. I find the suspension design works well for me in combination with the Manitou Mcleod shock with 140psi. Love the feeling of it, still getting used to the out-of-saddle sprinting with a FS bike...

Of course, there are some issues.

Firstly, use the outer cable along the whole frame - I cut it into parts, but the included plastic cable stops are not strong. Shifting gears resulted in the cable pulling through the weak cable stop, thus I had to use the outer cable along the whole inner cable. 
This does result in internal cable rattling during riding :nono:. I am still thinking of a solution.

Secondly, there is some play in the rear suspension linkage despite tightening the screws down well. See the following two videos:
1: 



2: 




However, this is not at all noticeable during riding - the linkage movement does not involve this lateral movement.

Thirdly, I cannot remove the screw through the largest bearing (see image below). I disassembled every part to grease the bearings, but this one I could not get out with any force.








Finally, the 'cup' design under the shock is plain stupid 
Any gunk collects there and forms a little pool.








The downtube also doesn't have a hole to let water inside the frame out. You can see the internal cable stops are not at the bottom of the frame, and you can see I used electrical tape to limit the amount of cable inside the frame. But the rattling was still there. 








At the moment I am very happy with the bike :thumbsup:
Main specs are:
FM-XC181 21" frame, boost, color 11
Fox 34 130mm Performance fork
Manitou Mcleod 165 x 38mm shock
DT Swiss 29" XM481 rims with Wheel-Tec hubs and Bonty XR1/ XR3 tires
Sram X0 carbon cranks, Absoluteblack 34T oval
Shimano XT 180/160 brakes
XT shifter and derailleur
Sram XG1150 10-42 cassette
740mm handlebar, 70mm stem, seatpost all carbon from Aliexpress
Falcon Pro carbon saddle

Sorry about the lengthy post, I wanted to share as much information as possible with all of you. Hope it is useful!


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## swatracing (Jun 24, 2009)

What is the lightest dual suspension 29er for 2019 out there, any ideas?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

swatracing said:


> What is the lightest dual suspension 29er for 2019 out there, any ideas?


Well, none of us know what's on the radar for 2019 until these guys decide to go for it. You have to realize it's sometimes just 2-3 weeks between when a team gets together and decides on a project until the marketable prototypes start coming off the molds. If you really want to take a stab at the future, email agents at ICAN, Hongfu, Dengfu, Pro-Mance, TanTan, and XM-Carbon Speed. My guess is they are as clueless as you are. It's all a matter of what they get there hands on.

Right now, it's the Pro-Mance ultralight T800/T1000 M9007. See my long thread in 29er forum for info on that. I've moved on, but that's what's lightest. About 200g more than a Scott Spark RC frameset and similar geo.


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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

Try this build...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=13779872

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

sissypants said:


> Well, none of us know what's on the radar for 2019 until these guys decide to go for it. You have to realize it's sometimes just 2-3 weeks between when a team gets together and decides on a project until the marketable prototypes start coming off the molds. If you really want to take a stab at the future, email agents at ICAN, Hongfu, Dengfu, Pro-Mance, TanTan, and XM-Carbon Speed. My guess is they are as clueless as you are. It's all a matter of what they get there hands on.
> 
> Right now, it's the Pro-Mance ultralight T800/T1000 M9007. See my long thread in 29er forum for info on that. I've moved on, but that's what's lightest. About 200g more than a Scott Spark RC frameset and similar geo.


If you don't mind me asking, what was the price of your frame delivered?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> They always say it's in stock. They get your money then take their sweet time knowing it's a pita to get it back.


I got my money back on aliexpress for a frame. It wasn't fast, but it was pretty easy.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

olivierhacking said:


> Sorry about the lengthy post, I wanted to share as much information as possible with all of you. Hope it is useful!


Awesome write-up; thank you.

One complaint I have had is the lack of frame cable stops on the open market. If there was a selection, you could replace those grommets with cable housing stops and stop the rattling.

For one hardtail frame that I modified for side swing fd, I had to order cable stops from Ukraine! They worked well though.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

swatracing said:


> What is the lightest dual suspension 29er for 2019 out there, any ideas?


But why? You're buying a frame of sketchy origin that has no warranty support. I'd look for a frame a couple hundred grams heavier than the design it knocked off.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

Guys, I'm trying to resolve a problem with play on my latest built. I'm already using RWC needle bearings but I can't find a solution. 
Please let me know if you have suggestions


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

What frame is that?^


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

The RWC bearings are moving inside the rocker. You need a shim or buy bearings with a larger diameter.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Do any of the new Spark copies come with a threaded BB instead of the god awful press fit?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Lenny7 said:


> Do any of the new Spark copies come with a threaded BB instead of the god awful press fit?


No. I told several companies this was the single best point of improvement if they wanted to get more business. I even offered extra if they could do a production run with a threaded BB insert but that didn't help. All it really takes is screwing out a removable fitting in the mold and replacing it with the other standard fitting, per my limited understanding.

That would be $0.50 in labor, a free fitting, and more than one happier customer.


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

sissypants said:


> No. I told several companies this was the single best point of improvement if they wanted to get more business. I even offered extra if they could do a production run with a threaded BB insert but that didn't help. All it really takes is screwing out a removable fitting in the mold and replacing it with the other standard fitting, per my limited understanding.
> 
> That would be $0.50 in labor, a free fitting, and more than one happier customer.


All the major brands use PF bb's. I don't see anything wrong, you guys should reconsider or maybe you're not using the proper tools when pressing the BB.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

charlesrg said:


> All the major brands use PF bb's. I don't see anything wrong, you guys should reconsider or maybe you're not using the proper tools when pressing the BB.


Installing has nothing to do with it. It's not difficult to install. They make zero sense from a practicality standpoint. Why do you use a screw instead of a nail when you are looking for stability? They tried to reinvent the wheel when making PF. Don't get me started on the creaking.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Lenny7 said:


> Installing has nothing to do with it. It's not difficult to install. They make zero sense from a practicality standpoint. Why do you use a screw instead of a nail when you are looking for stability? They tried to reinvent the wheel when making PF. Don't get me started on the creaking.


I do use the proper tools, but there certainly are plenty of people out there that don't and therefore complain. The still take 3-4 times longer than threaded BBs to install and uninstall, and it's easier to do the installation wrong.

What's better about press-fit? What's wrong about threaded?


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

charlesrg said:


> Guys, I'm trying to resolve a problem with play on my latest built. I'm already using RWC needle bearings but I can't find a solution.
> Please let me know if you have suggestions


try adding metal shims at each shock eyelet next too the bearings.


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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

charlesrg said:


> Guys, I'm trying to resolve a problem with play on my latest built. I'm already using RWC needle bearings but I can't find a solution.
> Please let me know if you have suggestions


It's hard to tell exactly where the slop is. Is it vertical or horizontal?
As I watched the video, I'm seeing a vertical (up and down). Is that what your showing? If so, that would be the bushing between the shock eyelet and the bolt securing it. Or it could be at multiple points such as both eyelets or even multiple pivot points. 
I would suggest using some dial calipers and measure the inside diameter of the shock eyelets and then measure the outside diameter of the mounting bolts. If those tolerances are good, then measure every pivot point of the suspension. 
Hope that helps.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Has anyone used a Cane Creek Inline shock for their frame? I want one for my Fm06 but i have concerns about tuning it properly. I didnt see it on cane creeks website and i know it can make a ride terrible if not tuned right


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

J_Bone said:


> It's hard to tell exactly where the slop is. Is it vertical or horizontal?
> As I watched the video, I'm seeing a vertical (up and down). Is that what your showing? If so, that would be the bushing between the shock eyelet and the bolt securing it. Or it could be at multiple points such as both eyelets or even multiple pivot points.
> I would suggest using some dial calipers and measure the inside diameter of the shock eyelets and then measure the outside diameter of the mounting bolts. If those tolerances are good, then measure every pivot point of the suspension.
> Hope that helps.
> ...





Schulze said:


> The RWC bearings are moving inside the rocker. You need a shim or buy bearings with a larger diameter.


I just made a new video showing the play in between the bearing internal and the suspension bolt.




I tried already using the - , + and ++ bearing inner part but there is still play.


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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

charlesrg said:


> I just made a new video showing the play in between the bearing internal and the suspension bolt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yeah. There is a lot of slop there. Those tolerances need to get tighter if you can. Or just live with it? I couldn't. 
Do you have a local bolt supplier? Or you may have to machine a new bushing for your shock. I've had it done before on my first DH bike.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Schulze said:


> Awesome write-up; thank you.
> 
> One complaint I have had is the lack of frame cable stops on the open market. If there was a selection, you could replace those grommets with cable housing stops and stop the rattling.
> 
> For one hardtail frame that I modified for side swing fd, I had to order cable stops from Ukraine! They worked well though.


Glad to help. 
In the meantime, I have absolutely zero rattling issues. I bought several air conditioning filters (pieces of open foam essentially), and forced them down the downtube. Added 30g and it works perfectly!


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

olivierhacking said:


> A lengthy update on my 21" Tideace FM-XC181 from AliExpress.
> 
> I have now gone on two 50km rides on my new build and must say I am impressed with the frame's performance. I weigh 88kg (194lbs) with my kit and have really tried to put some stress on the frame - for as far as that's possible on the relatively flat Dutch trails.
> 
> ...


In response to my own post - I have not been able to resolve the play in the linkage. I thought the main screw may be too short, so added a spacer between the screw and the rocker, to no avail. I then made a ring from an old debit card and squished it between the frame and the rocker, again to no avail. Everything is tight and sadly I do notice the play during quick, bumpy bits. 
I think visiting a LBS is the best option.

Besides this, still very happy with the frame quality!


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Sadly I have noticed two cracks in the rear carbon triangle - exactly where I suspected something could go wrong. As the frame has no bearings here it uses flex stays. However, I feel like it may have been manufacured without the flex in mind, hence the cracks... 

For now I am still riding. Before carbon fails it should start protesting with quite some noise! I have contacted Tideace and will see what they say.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> For now I am still riding. Before carbon fails it should start protesting with quite some noise! I have contacted Tideace and will see what they say.


Those cracks are nasty. I would never ride that frame in this condition. Snapping those chainstays in a technical stretch of trail could be brutal. They could easily crack all at once without giving you any notice.

I agree it looks like a fundamental flaw in the layup, as I have said my BXT frames have had issues with layup (although elsewhere, on the seat tube). Did your shock bottom out or was there lateral play in your linkage? Did you take a rampage-inspired drop to break these?

They should go with a 4-bar rear triangle, then this should be ok (or at least, fix this particular issue).


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sissypants said:


> Those cracks are nasty. I would never ride that frame in this condition. Snapping those chainstays in a technical stretch of trail could be brutal. They could easily crack all at once without giving you any notice.
> 
> I agree it looks like a fundamental flaw in the layup, as I have said my BXT frames have had issues with layup (although elsewhere, on the seat tube). Did your shock bottom out or was there lateral play in your linkage? Did you take a rampage-inspired drop to break these?
> 
> They should go with a 4-bar rear triangle, then this should be ok (or at least, fix this particular issue).


I live in the Netherlands, there really isn't anything massively technical (drops) that could have caused the cracks at once. I have used all the shock travel, but never felt a bottom out. And yes, there is a slight bit of lateral play in the linkage. Could this have contributed to the cracks?

See the play here:









I would love for Tideace to send me a new rear triangle with bearings instead of flex stays... but I think it isn't that simple sadly.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> I live in the Netherlands, there really isn't anything massively technical (drops) that could have caused the cracks at once. I have used all the shock travel, but never felt a bottom out. And yes, there is a slight bit of lateral play in the linkage. Could this have contributed to the cracks?
> 
> See the play here:


Wow that is quite a bit of play. They did a very poor job on the tolerances. If you're going to get a replacement rear triangle, definitely get some steel 1mm spacers to put in those joints. Any hardware store should have that for you. These pivots should be completely wiggle-free before riding the bike. Put one small spacer between the bolt and the linkage on that first video (or was this the bolt you couldn't remove?), and then one steel spacer on either side of the seatstay/linkage pivot, and repeat that process for the other side.

I'm not sure that this amount of play would cause a lateral crack like what you see. Just using common sense though, you can imagine that torquing the seatstays in a corner while the chainstays are snug will cause a lateral crack like what you got. But I'm no expert on this and have no experience with this particular frame.

This is still their fault for giving you such a lousy linkage setup.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

sissypants said:


> Wow that is quite a bit of play. They did a very poor job on the tolerances. If you're going to get a replacement rear triangle, definitely get some steel 1mm spacers to put in those joints. Any hardware store should have that for you. These pivots should be completely wiggle-free before riding the bike. Put one small spacer between the bolt and the linkage on that first video (or was this the bolt you couldn't remove?), and then one steel spacer on either side of the seatstay/linkage pivot, and repeat that process for the other side.
> 
> I'm not sure that this amount of play would cause a lateral crack like what you see. Just using common sense though, you can imagine that torquing the seatstays in a corner while the chainstays are snug will cause a lateral crack like what you got. But I'm no expert on this and have no experience with this particular frame.
> 
> This is still their fault for giving you such a lousy linkage setup.


I tried doing this but couldn't fit a spacer there. A plastic spacer made from an old credit card didn't do the trick either. Where exactly do you mean the spacer must be, between the frame and the black aluminum linkage along the main pivot? 
And I was able to remove all bolts ultimately.

I actually thought the play might be because one side of the linkage is too narrow for the carbon rear triangle. See the picture for what I mean:









So I asked them to send me a new linkage, which they did. Sadly they sent it to my old address so now I must pay for shipping it a second time.

I knew there were risks with these frames, but this is very demotivating. Finding a 29er, boost frame on its own is almost impossible from the big brands...


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> I knew there were risks with these frames, but this is very demotivating. Finding a 29er, boost frame on its own is almost impossible from the big brands...


Ah, is the linkage not flat/square where it contacts that gap you marked in the picture? In that case a washer wouldn't fix the problem. Maybe you could try sanding the linkage? Not sure I can be of much more help.

There are risks ordering from AliExpress for sure, I prefer to go directly to the factories because they care about their reputation and stand behind their product quality. I've had multiple frames personally and sold lots from TanTan and Pro-Mance that have been perfect. At least these two companies have really paid attention to every detail. BXT tries to always hit the lowest price-points possible, and I get the strong impression this comes at the cost of quality. I've had cracked seat tubes and undersized dropout screw holes and frames with internal routing port holes that weren't cut large enough. I've never had an issue with other places I've worked with. Someone here on the forums even had a seam underneath their BB that was peeling when they bought their BXT frame new from AliExpress.


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## rneilson (May 29, 2011)

Thought I might add my experience with my Airwolf 122mm travel frame I purchased from aliexpress. Frame build went well but after 3 rides the rear hanger broke. Of course this is after the 15 days that you get to dispute purchase.

Subsequently I have broken 8 hangers, the rocker. The hanger seems to suffer from a slow fatigue crack that can be visibly seem to grow.

Airwolf just keep sending me a replacement hanger, after I pay for freight. I've had some really long walks out of the trails so I requested a refund. Now they have just stopped communicating. So the frame is a bit useless really as its a pretty unique hanger that even wheels don't seem to make. Curious if any one else is in the same position.

NB: chain length is not a problem when shock compressed fully, included photo.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

rneilson said:


> Thought I might add my experience with my Airwolf 122mm travel frame I purchased from aliexpress. Frame build went well but after 3 rides the rear hanger broke. Of course this is after the 15 days that you get to dispute purchase.
> 
> Subsequently I have broken 8 hangers, the rocker. The hanger seems to suffer from a slow fatigue crack that can be visibly seem to grow.
> 
> ...


I saw this frame while browsing too. Did you buy it from the seller ICAN?

Also, sellers from Aliexpress have holiday now until 14 Feb. So they couldn't say anything about replacing the cracked rear triangle of my frame. 
Think I am going for a lofty but sturdy Fuel EX 2017 AL frame (just under 4kg...)


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

rneilson said:


> Thought I might add my experience with my Airwolf 122mm travel frame I purchased from aliexpress. Frame build went well but after 3 rides the rear hanger broke. Of course this is after the 15 days that you get to dispute purchase.
> 
> Subsequently I have broken 8 hangers, the rocker. The hanger seems to suffer from a slow fatigue crack that can be visibly seem to grow.
> 
> ...


Your chain is too short. When you bottom out the suspension is extending past the length of the chain.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

olivierhacking said:


> Sadly I have noticed two cracks in the rear carbon triangle - exactly where I suspected something could go wrong. As the frame has no bearings here it uses flex stays. However, I feel like it may have been manufacured without the flex in mind, hence the cracks...


This is exactly why I am avoiding Chinese flex-stay bikes. I just don't trust them to know what they're doing here.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Schulze said:


> This is exactly why I am avoiding Chinese flex-stay bikes. I just don't trust them to know what they're doing here.


For me, it's not just flex-stay bikes - I am steering clear of them in general for now. I am shocked to be the first customer in the world to share this experience.

Also similar to @rneilson, I have bent three derailleur hangers already - and my chain is definitely not too short. The metal is very flimsy and susceptible to loose branches on the trail.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

olivierhacking said:


> I knew there were risks with these frames, but this is very demotivating. Finding a 29er, boost frame on its own is almost impossible from the big brands...


What does that even mean? There are plenty of 29er only frame with boost spacing.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

olivierhacking said:


> For me, it's not just flex-stay bikes - I am steering clear of them in general for now. I am shocked to be the first customer in the world to share this experience.
> 
> Also similar to @rneilson, I have bent three derailleur hangers already - and my chain is definitely not too short. The metal is very flimsy and susceptible to loose branches on the trail.


You guys shouldn't generalize your bad experience with the companies you worked with to all brands. There are LOTS of happy customers on this thread and other threads from other companies that actually do put lots of money into developing quality frames.

A Trek Top Fuel frame sells for $3,299: TopFuel

A TanTan FS029 goes for $700 and has strong derailleur hangers: FS029

They are both excellent frames. Are you really going to pay almost FIVE TIMES as much for basically the same thing? You could get FIVE different full-suspension frames from China instead. Or help Trek fill their stockholder pockets and build their corporate empire.

Just don't buy of AliExpress, and don't buy something that multiple people haven't had experience with.

If you're new to building up bikes, there's also no reason you shouldn't take your parts to the local bike shop and have them build it up for $100. Maybe they'll even let you watch. They can catch things that you might never have noticed which, in the end, could destroy your frame.


----------



## rneilson (May 29, 2011)

I brought from the Airwolf Aliexpress shop not ICAN but it is likely the same frame. Airwolf did remanufacture the rear hanger for me but these lasted 3-4 rides only. 

My option are first to 3d print a direct mount hanger in SS, second is to Dremel the frame to fit a Scott Spark direct mount hanger which is quite a close fit and third is to bin the frame and sell the shock to recovery some costs.


Like your Fuel EX idea, great frame


----------



## rneilson (May 29, 2011)

Thanks for the idea, my last photo is of bike at full compression of the rear shock with chain on largest rear cog, it looks good to me but do people think that is too tight?


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

rneilson said:


> Thanks for the idea, my last photo is of bike at full compression of the rear shock with chain on largest rear cog, it looks good to me but do people think that is too tight?


Maybe email ICAN and see if they can't sell you a derailleur hanger. The frames I have had from them had very strong derailleur hangers and they offer outstanding customer service. Just a suggestion, I know you've been incredibly persistent about this!


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

sissypants said:


> Maybe email ICAN and see if they can't sell you a derailleur hanger. The frames I have had from them had very strong derailleur hangers and they offer outstanding customer service. Just a suggestion, I know you've been incredibly persistent about this!


Ya don't buy a frame off Ali go to a reputable dealer.

My miracle bike frame a Scott spark clone has a wonderful suspension feel and not a sign of cracked stays and the hanger is pretty burly.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Remember: On internet bike forums, if it breaks and it's a unbranded Chinese frame, you get what you pay for. If it's a name brand bike and it breaks, it's user error.


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## wannabe_shredder (Dec 23, 2018)

rneilson said:


> Thanks for the idea, my last photo is of bike at full compression of the rear shock with chain on largest rear cog, it looks good to me but do people think that is too tight?


Yeah - def looks too short

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greg225 (Jan 25, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Ya don't buy a frame off Ali go to a reputable dealer.
> 
> My miracle bike frame a Scott spark clone has a wonderful suspension feel and not a sign of cracked stays and the hanger is pretty burly.


What about brands like BXT or Tideace that have official Ali stores?

Slightly off topic but could you guys recommend me a few decent brands (that are not on Ali or eBay)? I'm looking for a boost carbon fork with a slightly longer A-C.

Found this style on eBay and Ali:









The problem is, some are listed by no feedback sellers for suspiciously cheap, and some are listed by I guess reputable sellers but in the $170-200 range which is dangerously close or over the limit where I would need to pay massive import taxes.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

olivierhacking said:


> However, I feel like it may have been manufacured without the flex in mind, hence the cracks...


Are the cracks just on the non-drive side?



Schulze said:


> This is exactly why I am avoiding Chinese flex-stay bikes. I just don't trust them to know what they're doing here.


Perhaps Oliver can confirm the question above, but my hunch is the issue lies in the brake mount spanning the flex-joint at the seat-stay, causing the caliper to become a stressed-member of the suspension. Given the robust joints between the chain- and seat-stays to the drop out, the flex should probably be split between the two joints...an FEA in Solidworks (which is probably as far as these frames ever get in "development") probably looks fine when there is no caliper mounted. Mount a caliper, stiffen the joint at the seat-stay, and now the chain-stay joint has to flex more.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Look at other flex-stay frames from the companies that are "fill[ing] their stockholder pockets and build[ing] their corporate empire": the brake-mount is entirely *downstream* of the flexible joint. I've never seen one from a big-brand straddling the flexible joint...probably because when you pay a competent engineer enough to design and develop a frame, they understand a caliper shouldn't be stressed like that, and that increased stiffness forces the flex to be isolated to another part of the triangle. I guess that increases the cost of the frame.




Are you referring to the chainstay when you say "downstream?"


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Lenny7 said:


> Are you referring to the chainstay when you say "downstream?"


In some cases, the caliper is mounted to the dropout or on a pedestal (like on a Scott Scale) that is entirely away from any flex occurring between the stays and the drop-out. In other cases (such as calipers mounted to the chainstay, like on a C'Dale Scalpel), the seat-stays are much less robust, and/or taper as they extend from the drop-out towards the main triangle, as the flex is designed to occur across the length of the seat-stays, not at the junction with the dropout.

The seat-stays and chain-stays on that Tideace frame are beefy. Where is the flex supposed to occur? The cracks tell you where the flex is actually occurring (and too much of it!).


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Greg225 said:


> What about brands like BXT or Tideace that have official Ali stores?


It depends. Are you looking for the best quality or the cheapest price?

BXT sells way too many defective products. I have had an issue of some type or another with almost a quarter of the stuff I bought from them. I have stopped buying from them. It's just one headache after another.

You are much better of working with a large export company that has a reputation to defend, like TanTan, Pro-Mance, XMCarbonSpeed, Dengfu, Hongfu, ICAN, or LightCarbon. Even then, there are certain frames to steer away from. These export companies have their own testing equipment, paint department, customer service representative(s), and competitive aftersales support policy. AliExpress stores often don't.

There are several fundamental problems with AliExpress:

1. Customers cannot review a product more than 90 days after receipt, and they cannot edit their review if they reviewed it immediately upon receipt. This means I can't spread the word about long-term product issues in my product review. Almost every transaction is given 5 stars, which is useless.

2. "Brands" on AliExpress often don't exist beyond AliExpress, and can change identity quite easily. They have little reputation to defend. Their sales success is based largely on the number of orders (see #3).

3. Consumer tendency to buy a product on AliExpress is based significantly on the number of orders of that product, versus Amazon where it is based on descriptive product ratings and consumer satisfaction with the product. For example, a BXT frame with 300 orders is going to be preferred over a Seraph frame with 15 orders. The number of orders is often unrelated to product quality, and simply related to price.

4. Big AliExpress stores are extremely low-margin high-volume enterprises, often scratch serial numbers, have poor customer service, and won't honor warranty or refund unless you ship the item back to them at cost (which of course is cost-prohibitive).

5. Sellers are obligated to ship products within a certain time after payment. They often create faux tracking numbers right before the shipping deadline, then apologize for a shipping error after production is complete, create a real tracking number and ship a week later, only to get bogged down in customs because their declaration was ambiguous or even incorrect. Work with someone who is transparent and honest about what's going on. BXT is a case-in-point for this kind of dirty business.

If I'm going to spend more than $100, I prefer to work directly with an export company and negotiate a deal to match the AliExpress price. They are usually willing to do that, and I get much better service and quality control.



> I'm looking for a boost carbon fork with a slightly longer A-C.
> 
> Found this style on eBay and Ali:
> 
> View attachment 1235747


That's a nice fork, I own it! I had Pro-Mance produce that fork for me. Fast shipping, great service, nice matte finish, good QC, and I'm a happy buyer.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

The companies sissypants quoted are pretty much the best to deal with.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Are the cracks just on the non-drive side?
> 
> Perhaps Oliver can confirm the question above, but my hunch is the issue lies in the brake mount spanning the flex-joint at the seat-stay, causing the caliper to become a stressed-member of the suspension. Given the robust joints between the chain- and seat-stays to the drop out, the flex should probably be split between the two joints...an FEA in Solidworks (which is probably as far as these frames ever get in "development") probably looks fine when there is no caliper mounted. Mount a caliper, stiffen the joint at the seat-stay, and now the chain-stay joint has to flex more.


Any green bsme who remembers the parallel axis theorem can tell by looking at those seat stays that they are far too thick to be a member designed for flexion. The seat stays on bikes designed by people who know what they're doing are wisp thin for a reason.


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## wconcretej (Jun 27, 2013)

rneilson said:


> Thought I might add my experience with my Airwolf 122mm travel frame I purchased from aliexpress. Frame build went well but after 3 rides the rear hanger broke. Of course this is after the 15 days that you get to dispute purchase.
> 
> Subsequently I have broken 8 hangers, the rocker. The hanger seems to suffer from a slow fatigue crack that can be visibly seem to grow.
> 
> ...


This chain length looks similar to my old DIY 1x9 with large expander ring at the back. Im Sure it caused a few broken hangers.That stretch is too much IMHO; I found cheaper replacement hangers on ebay for my China.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

olivierhacking said:


> Sadly I have noticed two cracks in the rear carbon triangle - exactly where I suspected something could go wrong. As the frame has no bearings here it uses flex stays. However, I feel like it may have been manufacured without the flex in mind, hence the cracks...
> 
> For now I am still riding. Before carbon fails it should start protesting with quite some noise! I have contacted Tideace and will see what they say.


After looking at my fs027 the seat stays are thinner and the chainstay bigger yours looks to be the opposite.

Also the stays flex up during suspension travel I don't think those cracks match that movement.

And there is really no flex at the base it is all in the upper part of the seat stay where it is thinner.

Running it thru travel with the shock off I don't see any way in hell it could crack the stay. The flex is shared it's not like it pivots at one spot.

It's like if I held a green piece of Branch at the end and you pushed down on it.

Loose pivots with play in them that could be another matter.


----------



## numberzero (Oct 15, 2009)

Hello is someone riding the workswell WCB-M-145. WCB-M-145-workswellbikes

I'm looking for a short review about suspension performance, overall quality of the frame, ...


----------



## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

chti ludo said:


> Hello is someone riding the workswell WCB-M-145. WCB-M-145-workswellbikes
> 
> I'm looking for a short review about suspension performance, overall quality of the frame, ...


I too would be curious if anyone has real-world experience on the frame. It's been around for a while but nobody has posted a good review.

FM258 vs M06 vs WCB-M-145

WCB-M-145 info?

The suspension looks like it would work just fine, other Workswell frames have been great. Their construction quality is great too as they do great testing and take product development seriously based on my communication with them. They aren't the cheapest, either, which tells you something about their standards.


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## pd.jansson (Mar 14, 2019)

Hi,
I am considering to upgrade my Trek Superfly FS7 from 2014 and the Chinese fs carbon frames looks interesting!

I have got quotes from 3 different suppliers and prices seems to be in the same range (from $620 to $690)
I want geometry close to scott spark, use my 142x12 carbon wheels and run at least 29x2.25 tires, size 17.5" (I am 1.78m tall).

Carbon speed CS-FS27
CS-FS29 full suspension mtb 29er frame carbon bicycle frame - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
40 days production time, supports 2.3 tires according to Peter at Carbon speed (lighter version!)

Pro Mance M7007 superlight
Hot!!! 27.5 plus XC Suspension frame (M7007) 32T
45 days production, does not support 2.3(?) according to Steven

Hongfu FM-058
Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
In stock, support 2.3 tires according to Anan at Hongfu

Any recommendations on which one to choose?

/Daniel


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

pd.jansson said:


> Hi,
> I am considering to upgrade my TREk Superfly FS7 from 2014 and the Chinese fs carbon looks interesting!
> 
> I have got quotes from 3 different suppliers and prices seems to be in the same range (from $620 to $690)
> ...


Are you after something like the spark (light trail/xc bike) or a spark RC (xc race bike)? Do you want it mainly for xc racing? How do you intend to build it up? 100mm fork, or something closer to 130mm? Dropper post?

If you want a light trail bike, get the carbon speed. If you want to keep it light as possible, run a 100mm fork, no dropper post, and go xc or marathon racing, get one of the others. I find the fm-058 to be an excellent xc race bike, but dunno if it would last long if I put a longer fork on it and took it trail riding.


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## pd.jansson (Mar 14, 2019)

sclyde2 said:


> Are you after something like the spark (light trail/xc bike) or a spark RC (xc race bike)? Do you want it mainly for xc racing? How do you intend to build it up? 100mm fork, or something closer to 130mm? Dropper post?
> 
> If you want a light trail bike, get the carbon speed. If you want to keep it light as possible, run a 100mm fork, no dropper post, and go xc or marathon racing, get one of the others. I find the fm-058 to be an excellent xc race bike, but dunno if it would last long if I put a longer fork on it and took it trail riding.


I'll be running a 100mm shox (RS Reba RL) and a 165x38 RS rear shock. It should be a fast XC bike but also handle some technical stuff (probably move dropper post from the TREK as all other stuff initially)!

What tires do you run in the fm-058? Any idea on the clearance for the others?

/Daniel


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

pd.jansson said:


> I'll be running a 100mm shox (RS Reba RL) and a 165x38 RS rear shock. It should be a fast XC bike but also handle some technical stuff (probably move dropper post from the TREK as all other stuff initially)!
> 
> What tires do you run in the fm-058? Any idea on the clearance for the others?
> 
> /Daniel


If you're looking to fit more than a 29x2.4" tire in any of these full-suspension frames it won't work. You can fit 27.5x2.8" no problem though. If they advertise a 29x2.35" tire fits, a 2.4" tire should fit as well. For example, I fit a Maxxis Forekaster 29x2.35" tire inside my Pro-Mance M7007-II with plenty room to spare, it could easily have fit a wide 2.4".

If you care about tire clearance, look at the 27.5+ versions that are on the market. The FM-058 is a very clean looking bike, but you may want to consider the Pro-Mance M7007-II which fits wider tires. Another option would be the TanTan FS027/29. The Pro-Mance should cost USD600, the TanTan should cost USD550 and if you can't get it for that I can get it for you for that.


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## pd.jansson (Mar 14, 2019)

I don't want more than 29*2.25-2.3. I got a pair of carbon wheels I want to use, they are 12*142 so I can not use the boost frame. 
Do you know the difference in internal width for the chainstay between the Pro-Mance standard and boost frames?
I tried to measure on my my old Trek and got something like 76-78mm and looking at the drawing for the M7007 (non-boost) it is 74.4mm so I think I will be fine.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

pd.jansson said:


> I don't want more than 29*2.25-2.3. I got a pair of carbon wheels I want to use, they are 12*142 so I can not use the boost frame.
> Do you know the difference in internal width for the chainstay between the Pro-Mance standard and boost frames?
> I tried to measure on my my old Trek and got something like 76-78mm and looking at the drawing for the M7007 (non-boost) it is 74.4mm so I think I will be fine.


You can still use a boost frame with 142 wheels, you just need an adapter kit. A rear boost adapter kit consists of two 3mm washers that fit between the hub end caps to the dropouts, and a 3mm spacer on the brake rotor to align it with the caliper. Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Alloy-Bike...15mm-x-100-to-110-Conversion-Kit/163456786312

I use boost kits on some bikes, and I recommend doing the same. If you ever get a new wheelset, chances are that it will be cheapest to get it in boost. Boost is the future, not 142 spacing.

You'll also want to consider getting a boost chainring (3mm offset) to get your chainline at it's most efficient performance, unless you rarely use your fastest gear and would rather have better alignment in bigger cogs.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

I've got something new on the way 









First ride review by the end of the month.


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## anarkhos (Sep 17, 2004)

Yer all gonna die!


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

anarkhos said:


> Yer all gonna die!


No, I haven't died. My Chinese bike is faster than yours.

Why do you post crap like this?

Carbon bikes can break, period.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Wait, wait... let me put on my surprise face...


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

Hoping to get some advice re customs in China - I have ordered a frame from a Chinese supplier and it was sent by EMS on the 17th of July. Tracking shows that it was "Held for export customs inspection" in Guangzhou since 18th of July and nothing since then. I have asked the supplier to assist and the response was that "this is normal, EMS is unreliable and can take up to four weeks". I have seen photos of my frame which was custom painted so I know it is legit, has anyone else experienced this sort of delay?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

That tracking info is normal. 
I get my stuff via EMS in about a week or so if it clears NY customs on time
I never have an issue using EMS.


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

El34 said:


> That tracking info is normal.
> I get my stuff via EMS in about a week or so if it clears NY customs on time
> I never have an issue using EMS.


Yes but have you ever had your frame held by China Customs for inspection? My frame has been held since the 18th without any explanation or communication?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes I have
And the tracking was not update, so it looks like the parts are still in China
But parts were already on their way
The next tracking shows them arriving at NY


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

sissypants said:


> No, I haven't died. My Chinese bike is faster than yours.
> 
> Why do you post crap like this?
> 
> Carbon bikes can break, period.


After having built up my intense recluse and riding it for a year..I am riding in a cross country race and decided to tear down the recluse and build up my fs027 (Chinese version of Scott Spark) from miracle bike. I took 17 seconds off my PR on a .7 mile section I've been trying to kom. 
Recluse is now for sale. I remember why I was faster 2 years ago.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I built a Chinese carbon 057 hardtail gravel bike 5 years ago and then a 036 dual suspension 4+ years ago. 

Both bikes have Chinese carbon wheel sets and both bikes take a beating here in Pisgah and zero issues with the frames.
My latest Chinese build is a carbon fat bike with 4 inch carbon rims.


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

olivierhacking said:


> A lengthy update on my 21" Tideace FM-XC181 from AliExpress.
> 
> I have now gone on two 50km rides on my new build and must say I am impressed with the frame's performance. I weigh 88kg (194lbs) with my kit and have really tried to put some stress on the frame - for as far as that's possible on the relatively flat Dutch trails.
> 
> ...


I have been wandering in the wrong thread all this time... I could have avoided this frame.
Well, I did get a BXT-MTB-030 which is exactly the same frame. I did ask if BXT ordered it from Tideace and this is the reply.







I will keep an eye on those you mentioned as I am about to have mine built, I hope it isn't as bad.... Dangit!!!


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

timber715 said:


> I have been wandering in the wrong thread all this time... I could have avoided this frame.
> Well, I did get a BXT-MTB-030 which is exactly the same frame. I did ask if BXT ordered it from Tideace and this is the reply.
> View attachment 1267869
> 
> I will keep an eye on those you mentioned as I am about to have mine built, I hope it isn't as bad.... Dangit!!!


 That frame is known to have issues.

If you want a flex stay design that works get a fs027 or fs029 from Miracle bike. It's pretty much a Scott Spark Geo wise.


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> That frame is known to have issues.
> 
> If you want a flex stay design that works get a fs027 or fs029 from Miracle bike. It's pretty much a Scott Spark Geo wise.


Unfortunately I already recieved the frame today. I was looking at the Chinese Carbon Frame thread inquiring about this frame about a month ago without an answer. 
Lets just hope they worked around the issues on this one.


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

It was good I saw this thread before I had my bike assembled. Decided to thoroughly check the frame and found this... 







I filed a dispute on Aliexpress and I am waiting for a decision. Of course the seller said I cancel the dispute and we will talk. Told them I will not cancel the dispute unless they refund me and that I wasted moey paying tariff on a damaged frame. It seems no surprise that they wish no part in refunding and continued saying that "it is just paint!"... What do you think I am, an idiot?!
Then said if I do not like their product that I can send it back and get a refund.... (And spend again on trash??)

Seller is BXT Official Store  on Aliexpress. I prefer buying from Aliexpress because of issues like this, seems I have more protection than talking direct to them.
Sorry for the rant, I just felt cheated of my hard earned money....


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

timber715 said:


> It was good I saw this thread before I had my bike assembled. Decided to thoroughly check the frame and found this...
> View attachment 1268031
> 
> I filed a dispute on Aliexpress and I am waiting for a decision. Of course the seller said I cancel the dispute and we will talk. Told them I will not cancel the dispute unless they refund me and that I wasted moey paying tariff on a damaged frame. It seems no surprise that they wish no part in refunding and continued saying that "it is just paint!"... What do you think I am, an idiot?!
> ...


Just make sure to pay with PayPal then they can't screw you.


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## supermoto65 (Apr 1, 2014)

Looks like a paint run in that picture.


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

supermoto65 said:


> Looks like a paint run in that picture.


Initially it looks like it, but consider the placement of the paint peel and rethink... then look at the picture posted earlier of the same frame from the exact same manufacturer but a different seller....







That is located in the same portion of the same side of the rear triangle. Different frame, same fracture or paint peel??? What do you think?


----------



## supermoto65 (Apr 1, 2014)

Yeah ... I see that one is cracked and it also has a raised area above in the other part of the curve. Hard to tell in photos.

Maybe resin build up? I'd probably error on the safe side and request a refund as well.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

timber715 said:


> Initially it looks like it, but consider the placement of the paint peel and rethink... then look at the picture posted earlier of the same frame from the exact same manufacturer but a different seller....
> View attachment 1268061
> 
> That is located in the same portion of the same side of the rear triangle. Different frame, same fracture or paint peel??? What do you think?


 Basically to me if those are from the flex needed for the suspension to work..then it's not a working design.

What you have is a badly designed non functional frame.
I would do everything in my power to get my money back.
Credit card charge back PayPal etc.

Here's what I have it's solid it's light and it's fast https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2263526/


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Basically to me if those are from the flex needed for the suspension to work..then it's not a working design.
> 
> What you have is a badly designed non functional frame.
> I would do everything in my power to get my money back.
> ...


Yes I am doing everything to get my money back without incurring extra expense like shipping it back. Thank you for the link but I think that geometry is too slack for my liking. Also the Max tire it accept 29x2.25 is a deal breaker for me since I already have new 29x2.35's ready. I am currently looking at CS-M06-Boost 27.5 Plus mtb frame full suspension carbon fiber UD matt - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd... Hope this doesn't drag long though.


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

timber715 said:


> Yes I am doing everything to get my money back without incurring extra expense like shipping it back. Thank you for the link but I think that geometry is too slack for my liking. Also the Max tire it accept 29x2.25 is a deal breaker for me since I already have new 29x2.35's ready. I am currently looking at CS-M06-Boost 27.5 Plus mtb frame full suspension carbon fiber UD matt - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd... Hope this doesn't drag long though.


 O must be the wrong frame I linked . Mine will accept 27.5 2.8 and will easily clear 2.35.

At least you've chosen a better company to deal with this time.


----------



## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Nothing but smiles and miles out of this one. 26lbs and no issues at all/yet


----------



## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Just pulled the trigger on this Chinese supermodel.

https://www.lightcarbon.com/all-new-lightcarbon-trail-mtb-frame-lcfs958_p118.html

Nice reviews..https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/light-carbon-fs937-downcountry-29er-build-1101497.html

https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=215157

Built with mrp ribbon coil 27.5, Trickstuff Piccolos, di2-xx1, slk carbon cranks, Chris king/Derby wheelset, Revive dropper and a Avalanched fox performance shock.


----------



## HeartCooksBrain (Aug 22, 2019)

*Dang...*

Well, I unfortunately paid for this frame yesterday (Tideace FM-XC181. I'm trying to see they'll cancel the order and refund me today. Too bad too, I was really excited about it. But I'm a big guy and ride technical, rocky terrain. This post ruined my faith.

What are you looking at now to replace this frame for a light XC racing rig?



timber715 said:


> Yes I am doing everything to get my money back without incurring extra expense like shipping it back. Thank you for the link but I think that geometry is too slack for my liking. Also the Max tire it accept 29x2.25 is a deal breaker for me since I already have new 29x2.35's ready. I am currently looking at CS-M06-Boost 27.5 Plus mtb frame full suspension carbon fiber UD matt - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd... Hope this doesn't drag long though.


----------



## HeartCooksBrain (Aug 22, 2019)

How long have you been riding this rig? No problems with the rear triangle? What shock are you using?



Outhouse said:


> Nothing but smiles and miles out of this one. 26lbs and no issues at all/yet


----------



## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> Well, I unfortunately paid for this frame yesterday (Tideace FM-XC181. I'm trying to see they'll cancel the order and refund me today. Too bad too, I was really excited about it. But I'm a big guy and ride technical, rocky terrain. This post ruined my faith.
> 
> What are you looking at now to replace this frame for a light XC racing rig?


if you just ordered it yesterday, refund should come easier without much trouble. You just have to wait 3-20 days for the refund though. Sorry to make you lose faith. I was unfortunate enough to only get a partial refund and I really would not want to waste my time any longer on a losing battle. I have found someone who can do the partial repair on the rear triangle before it worsens. But I still would keep an eye every now and then for cracks. Btw, the cracked frame on the picture is from Oliverhacking (read back a few post for the details) and that is what made me check mine and my hear sank as well especially when I saw it when my frame arrived.


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## HeartCooksBrain (Aug 22, 2019)

timber715 said:


> if you just ordered it yesterday, refund should come easier without much trouble. You just have to wait 3-20 days for the refund though. Sorry to make you lose faith. I was unfortunate enough to only get a partial refund and I really would not want to waste my time any longer on a losing battle. I have found someone who can do the partial repair on the rear triangle before it worsens. But I still would keep an eye every now and then for cracks. Btw, the cracked frame on the picture is from Oliverhacking (read back a few post for the details) and that is what made me check mine and my hear sank as well especially when I saw it when my frame arrived.


Well good news. Tideace refunded my money promptly minus a PayPal fee and custom paint fee. Fine with me... $40 lost and big mistake avoided. Now looking at DIYcarbonbikes.com. just can't decide which one. I figure having someone domestic doing QC is good insurance for the extra cost.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> Well good news. Tideace refunded my money promptly minus a PayPal fee and custom paint fee. Fine with me... $40 lost and big mistake avoided. Now looking at DIYcarbonbikes.com. just can't decide which one. I figure having someone domestic doing QC is good insurance for the extra cost.


I haven't bought a frame from them yet but did buy a carbon wheelset with DT Swiss hubs for great price and put a good year of use on them. The owner of company in Georgia is great to deal with and always gets back to you quickly if you have any questions. I would highly recommend him.


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## supermoto65 (Apr 1, 2014)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> Well good news. Tideace refunded my money promptly minus a PayPal fee and custom paint fee. Fine with me... $40 lost and big mistake avoided. Now looking at DIYcarbonbikes.com. just can't decide which one. I figure having someone domestic doing QC is good insurance for the extra cost.


Take a look at TanTan and LightCarbon. I have a TanTan FM08 and the purchase experience was good. I've also heard LightCarbon is a good mfr.

https://www.lightcarbon.com/full-suspension_c24

Mountain Frame--深圳市碳碳运动器材有限公司


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> How long have you been riding this rig? No problems with the rear triangle? What shock are you using?


Fox 34 F and fox evol R

been riding around a month about 80 miles on it, and it is still as solid as the day I started. I really enjoy it and I don't have a single complaint. I have not hit the trials yet as im getting my legs ready for my buddy that rides all the time. That will test it and I will report later


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## timber715 (Jul 10, 2019)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> Well good news. Tideace refunded my money promptly minus a PayPal fee and custom paint fee. Fine with me... $40 lost and big mistake avoided. Now looking at DIYcarbonbikes.com. just can't decide which one. I figure having someone domestic doing QC is good insurance for the extra cost.


I am happy for you, even if you have gotten that frame I do not think it would give you peace of mind.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> Well good news. Tideace refunded my money promptly minus a PayPal fee and custom paint fee. Fine with me... $40 lost and big mistake avoided. Now looking at DIYcarbonbikes.com. just can't decide which one. I figure having someone domestic doing QC is good insurance for the extra cost.


 Good to hear. I echo what some have said about light carbon.
I think they are the top Chinese direct company. They have multiple frames on uci list multiple bike companies have their xc teams racing them.
In addition I have seen thru forum threads at least 5 instance of them honoring warranty.

I think the https://www.lightcarbon.com/lightcarbon-new-27-5plus-29er-cross-country-mountain-bike-frame_p39.html
Is one that bike companies are rebranding as their own.


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

Thought I would share a recent experience I had with Carbonda. I bought their FM936 frame in May had it custom painted total was US$1036 including shipping. Shipped in June but tracking had it "Held for export customs inspection" for four weeks. I contacted Carbonda but their responses were "not to worry it will ship soon" or that I should contact customs myself. After four weeks tracking listed "export cancelled". Carbonda sent another tracking number promising to send it via DHL instead of EMS. The same thing happened with tracking listed as "Held for export customs inspection". I filed a dispute with PayPal and luckily have had a full refund. I have bought numerous frames from China over the years and this has never happened to me before wondering if anyone else has experienced this?


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## numberzero (Oct 15, 2009)

Beij said:


> Thought I would share a recent experience I had with Carbonda. I bought their FM936 frame ... wondering if anyone else has experienced this?


I bought the same frame.
The first shipping, tracking didn't work, when i asked what's going on, carbonda said me the parcel was surely blocked by their post.
One week later carbonda got back the parcel and made another shipping, this time it worked.

So yes it seems carbonda has some problems with their post office. But they are very professional, when i said them if they could not respect their delay i will ask a refund, they totally understood my point. So i think you can trust carbonda, they seems to be worried a lot about customer satisfaction.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Beij said:


> "Held for export customs inspection" for four weeks.


ive bought many recent items for my chiner29er build. Everything cam in 10 days to 3 weeks less a stupid carbon fiber seatpost. It was held up in NY for almost 5 weeks making it a 6 week shipping time. My frame was great 10 days from ebay.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

My frame from lightcabon was a week faster then my tire order from the UK.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I've gone down the rabbit hole of carbon frames and need some help. I've read most of this thread, some others, been reading over at chinertown as well and am totally confused if what I want is out there. If I should start a new thread let me know and I will.

I would be building around a SID Ultimate 29er fork. So I'm looking for 120 front (I think 100mm is not enough), 100-120mm rear, Boost spacing (to fit 29x2.3), probably 68 degree or less head tube angle, dropper compatible. I'm in MN so more XC than trail or enduro. I'd like something that pedals good. I'm on a 2016 stumpjumper that's 140/130 and it has more travel than I probably need and more pedal bob than I like. Threaded bottom bracket would be nice but I haven't seen that in many frames and not the more XC ones.

Something like the new top fuel, 2016 fuel ex, orbea oiz, scott spark, norco revolver is kind of what I envision. I recently demo'd a 2019 Specialized Epic and maybe the suspension wasn't dialed but it just seemed really harsh. I had been leaning towards the miracle bikes fs029 based on input from a friend that's building one but it seems to be pretty limited by the rear 165x3.8 shock size. Many other companies seem to be limited to this size too. I liked the Oiz and and revolver because it seemed I could dial in rear travel by trying shocks with different travel lengths.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

This is the one for you I think. https://www.lightcarbon.com/lightcarbon-new-27-5plus-29er-cross-country-mountain-bike-frame_p39.html

You can find a trunnion fox shock 165x40 on eBay pretty cheap.


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

numberzero said:


> I bought the same frame.
> The first shipping, tracking didn't work, when i asked what's going on, carbonda said me the parcel was surely blocked by their post.
> One week later carbonda got back the parcel and made another shipping, this time it worked.
> 
> So yes it seems carbonda has some problems with their post office. But they are very professional, when i said them if they could not respect their delay i will ask a refund, they totally understood my point. So i think you can trust carbonda, they seems to be worried a lot about customer satisfaction.


"Professional" and "Customer Satisfaction" are not phrases that would describe my experience. When the first frame was held for export clearance Carbonda told me not to worry it will ship soon and then after four weeks that I should contact the Chinese Customs office myself. Understandably they cannot control Chinese Customs but to suggest that I should contact customs does not reflect that they are "worried a lot about customer satisfaction". When it was sent back to them they said they would re-send it via DHL. Instead they sent it EMS again and the same thing happened "Held for Customs Clearance Inspection". The frame was then sent back to Carbonda and they contacted me again sending a photo of my frame in a box ready to go promising to send it via DHL this time. Except the frame pictured was a road frame, not my custom painted dual suspension frame. Thankfully Paypal refunded my purchase.


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## numberzero (Oct 15, 2009)

Yes carbonda has problems with some of their parcels like mine and yours but they are not relunctant to refund people. Make a search you can find many bad stories with other companies.
In your case they even totally refund a custom painted frame they couldn't be able to sell anymore.

If it's like in my country you can't do a lot to solve problems with post, unless waiting, i don't know about china post...

The question is to know if only carbonda is affected by parcel being randomly held or all the chinese sellers?


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## Beij (Mar 9, 2009)

numberzero said:


> Yes carbonda has problems with some of their parcels like mine and yours but they are not relunctant to refund people. Make a search you can find many bad stories with other companies.
> In your case they even totally refund a custom painted frame they couldn't be able to sell anymore.
> 
> If it's like in my country you can't do a lot to solve problems with post, unless waiting, i don't know about china post...
> ...


Yes that was my question whether this is something that affects other sellers or if it is just Carbonda. And to clarify - Carbonda did not pay a refund initially so I had to lodge a dispute with Paypal


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Beij said:


> Yes that was my question whether this is something that affects other sellers or if it is just Carbonda. And to clarify - Carbonda did not pay a refund initially so I had to lodge a dispute with Paypal


 It the first I've heard the Chinese customs holding something.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> This is the one for you I think. https://www.lightcarbon.com/lightcarbon-new-27-5plus-29er-cross-country-mountain-bike-frame_p39.html
> 
> You can find a trunnion fox shock 165x40 on eBay pretty cheap.


Thanks for the feedback. It helped some but also got me further into the weeds. What's the difference between the LCFS911 and LCFS902 (which is same as tantan036 I think?)

I'm also considering the Pro-Mance 7007 II. And also kind of like the idea of Diycarbon bikes f100 which looks like many of the spark clones as well as the f110 which looks like the Tallboy 3 (might be more trail than xc?) because there is stateside support rather than overseas.

On the Spark clones I've noticed some have the air can on top and some on the bottom. Is there a benefit to either orientation? air can and switch on top would help with locking out. Not sure some of the bottom mounted ones I could even reach down and switch it by hand mid ride.


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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Can anyone report anything about the Carbonda FM936 frame? How does the rather extreme geometry ride? Is the rear end plush or taut?
Thanks a lot!



numberzero said:


> I bought the same frame.
> The first shipping, tracking didn't work, when i asked what's going on, carbonda said me the parcel was surely blocked by their post.
> One week later carbonda got back the parcel and made another shipping, this time it worked.
> 
> So yes it seems carbonda has some problems with their post office. But they are very professional, when i said them if they could not respect their delay i will ask a refund, they totally understood my point. So i think you can trust carbonda, they seems to be worried a lot about customer satisfaction.


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## numberzero (Oct 15, 2009)

maettu said:


> Can anyone report anything about the Carbonda FM936 frame? How does the rather extreme geometry ride? Is the rear end plush or taut?
> Thanks a lot!


Check chinertown, i wrote my impressions, and there are other owners too.
By rear end you mean suspension? I'd say it's more on the plush side. Ask a spark owner, suspension design is similar so i think it's more or less the same feeling.


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## amer_ua (Nov 10, 2009)

Recieved TRIFOX frame (also knows as American Eagle). Link to AliExpress

Disassemled. Took photos

As was mentioned above - you get what you pay for. No magic - you wont get full carbon frame with finish like 3000+ brand frames will have

We cannot tested how its going cause its cold outside, fork\ammo dont work as have to

We wrote article about it (in russian) with lots of foto, parts on scales etc. link to article - https://alibuy.biz/2019/10/14/trifox100mm/

View attachment 1301889


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm really surprised no one is talking about the Santa Cruz clone. I'm extremely interested in this frame:

FS831 AM-Haideli bicycle


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

FS831 AM-Haideli bicycle


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

richulr said:


> no one is talking about the Santa Cruz clone


Lots of people are talking about the Santa Cruz clone:

Chinese Santa Cruz


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah I'm on that thread too. I'm talking about here.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

richulr said:


> Yeah I'm on that thread too. I'm talking about here.


Oops [faceplant]. But at least I plugged your chinertown magnum opus here on mtbr.


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## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

sissypants said:


> Lots of people are talking about the Santa Cruz clone:
> 
> Chinese Santa Cruz


That frame looks really promising.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

When you have a Chinese carbon framed shipped to the United States, do you have to pay any tarriffs or duties? Are there any other hidden costs?


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## MaxxxPower (Feb 1, 2020)

HeartCooksBrain said:


> How long have you been riding this rig? No problems with the rear triangle? What shock are you using?


I've been riding the same Airwolf frame for a year and 2 months. No complaints at all with the frame, and fortunately I have not got any problems with the derailleur hanger. I did buy 3 additional hangers as precaution, but they are just getting dusty on the shelf of my garage.

I'm using it with a X-fusion shock with remote. Also very good so far.

I'm also using 27.5 carbon wheels, carbon handlebar with integrated stem, Sunrace 1x12 transmission, some Chinese 140mm travel fork with remote, Magura brakes and a cheap 100mm dropper. All parts Chinese and cheap.

I use the bike for training and racing, beating the crap out of everyone on the downhills.

Here are some pics of it:


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

MaxxxPower said:


> I've been riding the same Airwolf frame for a year and 2 months.


Love my airwolf frame, not the best downhill bike but a great all around trail bike paired with a fox 34 140mm front suspension and fox rear. Running the eagle 10-50 12s I keep up with the best bikes made on the trail.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

I broke 2 hangers on accident, do not try and bend one, they will not bend at all, just simply snap in half. They also do not weld very well, and that broke instantly, so no welding to fix the hanger. Its a long 3 weeks waiting for these to come from china. like you I now have 3 in the tool box


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## MaxxxPower (Feb 1, 2020)

Outhouse said:


> Love my airwolf frame, not the best downhill bike but a great all around trail bike paired with a fox 34 140mm front suspension and fox rear. Running the eagle 10-50 12s I keep up with the best bikes made on the trail.


You are right, not for downhill. I don't do downhill with it, I just beat everyone going down on XC races lol.

Here's a short video of me riding it, A friend recorded when testing his new gopro:


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

MaxxxPower said:


> You are right, not for downhill.


Don't kid yourself, it holds its own, just not like the 160mm downhill bikes. We have a steep rocky section and I go down it with the best of the bikes on strava for speed. I do have fox34 140mm

Bitchen vid!!!!!!!


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

Just received my Carbonda FM936 frame (aggressive XC geo with 66 HA, 76 STA, and 475mm reach on Medium size). 25lbs with pedals. Waiting for the snow to melt here, but should be racing it by the end of next month.










Fox Float 34 Performance Elite 120mm fork
Fox Float DPS Evol Performance 16x142.5 shock
Light Bicycle 29C07 30mm ID carbon rims on DT Swiss 350S hubs
Maxxis Forekaster EXO 2.35/Maxxis Ikon EXO 2.35 (putting Aspen 2.25 on)
Formula Cura brakes with 160mm rotors
OneUp V1 150mm dropper post with V2 metal remote
Shimano M9020 XTR crankset (polished) with Stages power meter
OneUp 30T oval chainring
Shimano M9000 XTR shifter
Shimano M8000 XT derailleur
e13 TRSr 9-46t cassette
SRAM X1 chain
Exustar E-PM215Ti pedals
Cane Creek 40 headset
Shimano XTR bottom bracket
Wren stem 50mm (may swap for Kalloy 40mm)
Chromag Cutlass carbon bars
Chromag Squarewave grips
Chinese saddle (new carbon saddle in the mail)
Chinese carbon seatclamp post


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## Velorangutan (Aug 28, 2012)

spec47 said:


> Just received my Carbonda FM936 frame (aggressive XC geo with 66 HA, 76 STA, and 475mm reach on Medium size). 25lbs with pedals. Waiting for the snow to melt here, but should be racing it by the end of next month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What do you think is the max tire size that will fit on this frame?


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## spec47 (Jul 12, 2013)

Really depends on the tire/rim width. Ikon 2.35 on 30mm ID has plenty of clearance, would think some 2.5's would fit. Carbonda says 2.35 max.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Guys, I'm trying to tread lightly, so if this post is inappropriate, please let me know and Ill remove it.

If anyone happens to be interested in the Haideli FS831 frame (similar to the new SC hightower), chiner town is putting together a group purchase right now.

I'd link, but I dont want to come off as a shill. I have no affiliation other than the fact I'm hoping to purchase the frame.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Designed around 29x2.4? Come'on!


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## MaxxxPower (Feb 1, 2020)

GuitsBoy said:


> Guys, I'm trying to tread lightly, so if this post is inappropriate, please let me know and Ill remove it.
> 
> If anyone happens to be interested in the Haideli FS831 frame (similar to the new SC hightower), chiner town is putting together a group purchase right now.
> 
> I'd link, but I dont want to come off as a shill. I have no affiliation other than the fact I'm hoping to purchase the frame.


Link please.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

MaxxxPower said:


> Link please.


Link.

Again, if this is not allowed, or simply in bad taste, Ill happily remove. Just trying to pass along a good deal. I wasn't sure the deals forum was the right place either, so I limited it to this thread.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

yeah I saw that group buy deal. If I wasn't happy with my current ride I'd jump on that.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

The group buy at chinertown is for a Hightower clone. Looks to be extremely similar. Made by a reputable company that offers a two year warranty. If anyone is interested, if we get 30 orders the price for a frame is just $499! I wasn't even in the market for a new frame and I'm not passing that deal up. Hope some people here take advantage of this.


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## johoden27 (Mar 10, 2020)

does anyone know where to get a swingarm or subframe for a 036.. i have broken my lamere 036. at least thats what i think it is. its just the top part of the swingarm that broke bolts to the axle up to the shock. lamere wants 500 for a swingarm and i cant find anyone who sells parts like that just entire frames.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

Could ask the diy guy over on pinkbike. He sells chinese stuff on the pb buy/sell


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## johoden27 (Mar 10, 2020)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> Could ask the diy guy over on pinkbike. He sells chinese stuff on the pb buy/sell


thanks ill check it out


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

richulr said:


> The group buy at chinertown is for a Hightower clone. Looks to be extremely similar. Made by a reputable company that offers a two year warranty. If anyone is interested, if we get 30 orders the price for a frame is just $499! I wasn't even in the market for a new frame and I'm not passing that deal up. Hope some people here take advantage of this.


Did this deal/order ever materialize? Is FS831 available?


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## brex17 (Jan 31, 2019)

No, the thing has never materialized. It is vaporware.
By the time it actually exists and ships, it will be a couple generations of geometry old.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks for the reply. I was afraid that might be the answer.


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## XETOH (Oct 5, 2020)

Hello guys, I am really interested in getting a chinese carbon XC frame. Could somebody tell me some good one? Thanks!!


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## Notyetman (Dec 12, 2021)

numberzero said:


> Yes carbonda has problems with some of their parcels like mine and yours but they are not relunctant to refund people. Make a search you can find many bad stories with other companies.
> In your case they even totally refund a custom painted frame they couldn't be able to sell anymore.
> 
> If it's like in my country you can't do a lot to solve problems with post, unless waiting, i don't know about china post...
> ...


Still waiting for approval for registration. While that is going on, would you say that by buying the linkage from NS Bikes for the Synonym TR would allow putting a 165x45 shock on the Carbonda fm936 to get it from 100mm to 120mm travel?


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## j-t-g (Aug 15, 2013)

No guarantee you'd actually be able to do that until someone tries it - plus at the cost, you'd almost certainly end up with poor economic outcomes. You'd need the linkage, hardware, rear end, and a shock rebuild at a minimum - pretty sure the entire back half is different.


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## Eneen (Jul 4, 2017)

Notyetman said:


> Still waiting for approval for registration. While that is going on, would you say that by buying the linkage from NS Bikes for the Synonym TR would allow putting a 165x45 shock on the Carbonda fm936 to get it from 100mm to 120mm travel?


Carbonda has new FM936 rocker for 120mm now, check chinertown.


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## Notyetman (Dec 12, 2021)

Eneen said:


> Carbonda has new FM936 rocker for 120mm now, check chinertown.


Nice….and I just recently splurged big time and bought a Transition Spur. Haha


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