# Haibike free hub failed



## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

After 1800 miles of single track, my Haibike (Bosch CX) had its 2nd failure.
The free hub (if that is the correct terminology) failed so when you peddle all you get is no go and a grinding sound.
The 1st failure was a speed sensor.
I took the rear wheel to the LBS and they tried to revive the free hub by cleaning the pawls which did not work.
They did not have a free hub that matches and this hub my be proprietary to Haibike.
So my question is, should the hub that the spokes are laced to and the pauls make contact with be replaced at the same time?
Seems like matching a new part with a warn part is a source of premature failure.
Thanks


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

Why not just replace the whole wheel with any commonly available 27.5 12mm boost wheel instead of paying someone to repair it?


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

notb
Good advice
I ordered a new wheel today.
It did not make sense to lace up the old wheel to a new hub cost wise.
Is it common to wear out the free wheel or is this an electric assist issue that places more load on the drive train ?
It would be nice if the drive ring in the hub was replaceable so you do not have to buy a complete wheel assembly when the drive ring wears.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

you can definitely get hubs with replaceable freehubs. the motor will undoubtedly put more torque on the freehub. it really depends on what hub you have how long it will last.


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

highroad 2 said:


> notb
> Good advice
> I ordered a new wheel today.
> It did not make sense to lace up the old wheel to a new hub cost wise.
> ...


I don't really know if it's common, but I'm curious what kind of wheels and hubs your Haibike has that wore out so quickly? Mine has DT-Swiss XM 1501 Spline One with the 240 hub which I think have a good reputation for longevity. I have 1100 miles on them and no issues yet.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

highroad 2 said:


> It would be nice if the drive ring in the hub was replaceable so you do not have to buy a complete wheel assembly when the drive ring wears.


On a quality wheel the freehub is replaceable and also needs somewhat regular maintenance. If you just ride the wheel without any maintenance you will eventually blow up the freehub again. I don't use a motor so I can't give you a recommended service interval, but if you contact whomever made your new hub and explain to them the bike/motor it's being used with and a few details about yourself and where you ride...they'll be able to suggest a time or distance interval that you should be looking at your hub.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

For a mid-drive bike, unless you are just toodling around on the bike path, you need a really durable freehub. I'd go DT or King, probably. 

Anything that uses pawls is going to have problems - remember that you're putting 2 or 3 humans worth of power through the hub in some situations - usually at very high torque as well (ie grinding up a steep climb in low gear). 

-Walt


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

vikb said:


> On a quality wheel the freehub is replaceable and also needs somewhat regular maintenance. If you just ride the wheel without any maintenance you will eventually blow up the freehub again. I don't use a motor so I can't give you a recommended service interval, but if you contact whomever made your new hub and explain to them the bike/motor it's being used with and a few details about yourself and where you ride...they'll be able to suggest a time or distance interval that you should be looking at your hub.


On the DT 240, it's a one year recommended service interval. Looks like an LBS job for me though. I read the technical manual, don't understand all of the instructions, and don't have a vice or the special tools.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks for the reply’s and advice.
On the build sheet for my Habike, the free hub is listed as a Haibike part.
The LBS is ordering me a complete wheel assembly by Stan’s for $290.

What other method than pawls are used as a free wheel assembly?
I had 1800 miles of either muddy or dusty single track with no maintenance.
I have worn out the cluster 3 times and 2 chains per cluster..
I get a kick out of uphill flow so I always ride in Turbo mode.
Lucky to get 14 miles per charge


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

highroad 2 said:


> Thanks for the reply's and advice.
> On the build sheet for my Habike, the free hub is listed as a Haibike part.
> The LBS is ordering me a complete wheel assembly by Stan's for $290.
> 
> ...


DT Swiss uses their star ratchet system in their high-end hubs; cylinders cut with axially-oriented ramps are held together under spring pressure and can easily be changed; I have a DT350 wheelset build saved online for my next upgrade but so far so good on my Haibike; I'm not riding anything too crazy because of the reason I got the eBike in the first place; pain in an arthritic SI joint.

Back when I rode a clockwork bike I went through a lot of hubs; this is a point of weakness on any bike especially on technical trails.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Walt said:


> For a mid-drive bike, unless you are just toodling around on the bike path, you need a really durable freehub. I'd go DT or King, probably.
> 
> Anything that uses pawls is going to have problems - remember that you're putting 2 or 3 humans worth of power through the hub in some situations - usually at very high torque as well (ie grinding up a steep climb in low gear).
> 
> -Walt


They like Chris King on the Clydesdale forum but I'd go with DT350; Chris King is too rich for me.

https://forums.mtbr.com/clydesdales-tall-riders/hub-destruction-poll-907912.html


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Um, the Stan's wheels are NOT super durable. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad in any way at all - but unless they started making an e-bike specific hub or changed their engagement mechanism, they are NOT appropriate for what you want to do.

Your LBS should hang their heads in shame on that one. Have them send it back and go with the DT 350 advice that Dave gave you.

-Walt


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Is the hub XLC? Try p.123

https://epapers.team-xlc.de/epaper-XLC_Katalog_2018_EN/#122

or

https://www.xlc-parts.com/mtb/bikeparts/laufraeder-zubehoer/?p=1


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

highroad 2 said:


> After 1800 miles of single track, my Haibike (Bosch CX) had its 2nd failure.
> The free hub (if that is the correct terminology) failed so when you peddle all you get is no go and a grinding sound.
> The 1st failure was a speed sensor.
> I took the rear wheel to the LBS and they tried to revive the free hub by cleaning the pawls which did not work.
> ...


No such thing as a proprietary hub, it's a bike hub, replace it with a better hub, then ride on.

I recommend a DT Swiss Star Drive hub, super strong, won't fail.

You could probably do better buying an entire built wheel on line than having your shop replace it unless they offer free labor as a warranty fix.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

If you want bullet proof get an Onyx and forget about it.


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## ron t (Jun 15, 2018)

highroad 2 said:


> Thanks for the reply's and advice.
> On the build sheet for my Habike, the free hub is listed as a Haibike part.
> The LBS is ordering me a complete wheel assembly by Stan's for $290.
> 
> ...


Lots of good info passed along by others, but I'll add that Haibike at least used to make their own wheels in-house. The hub was called "TheHub" or "TheHub +". Not sure if they actually made them or purchased them from some other manufacturer of hubs.

Riding in Turbo all the time is putting probably 2-3X the stress on drive components than most people do on average. I ride in Tour (level 2) most of the time, but dip into E-Mtb (level 3) when I need to keep momentum going on a steep hill. If I'm riding with non-powered bikes it's in Eco.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

notb said:


> Lots of good info passed along by others, but I'll add that Haibike at least used to make their own wheels in-house. The hub was called "TheHub" or "TheHub +". Not sure if they actually made them or purchased them from some other manufacturer of hubs.
> 
> Riding in Turbo all the time is putting probably 2-3X the stress on drive components than most people do on average. I ride in Tour (level 2) most of the time, but dip into E-Mtb (level 3) when I need to keep momentum going on a steep hill. If I'm riding with non-powered bikes it's in Eco.


My Haibike SDURO has "The Hub++". If I roll the bike very slowly tick tick tick devolves into tick-tick tick tick tick-tick tick-tick; both pawls don't always engage at the same instant which means that when ratcheting up over a rock step there's a small chance of engaging only one of the two pawls, potentially braking a tooth. The DT swiss design doesn't have this problem; it's all or nothing and the ratchet cylinders are replaceable; you can go for more points of engagement or stronger teeth.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks for the the info regarding hubs and freewheels.
It has been educational.
I have been slow to respond due to a 1300 mile road trip in 36 hours.

I just got word from Haibike that I am on my own to replace the wheel.
I will talk to the LBS regarding the Stans wheel they ordered as being less than ideal for the task.
I googled the DT Swiss 350 and know understand the difference between pawl and ratchet drive.
I am confused in that I got the impression that any hub can be upgraded to a DT Swiss 350 drive which sounds to good to be true.
I realize Turbo mode is creating much more wear and tear.
Coming from 50 years of moto, any less assist is boring


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

highroad 2 said:


> I realize Turbo mode is creating much more wear and tear.
> Coming from 50 years of moto, any less assist is boring


Don't worry we are just at the start of the e-bike horsepower arms race. Things will get more roosty! But, ya we'll need stronger hubs as well to manage all that power.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

life behind bars said:


> If you want bullet proof get an Onyx and forget about it.


Good to know. Quiet coasting, fast engagement, reliability and pretty colors; maybe these go on my wishlist instead of the DT350's; the only thing I didn't like about my old Hadley (still running on a friend's frankenbike) was the angry bee sound.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

highroad 2 said:


> Coming from 50 years of moto, any less assist is boring


Dude, don't post stuff like that here, at least if you want to help gain trail access.

-Walt


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

hikerdave said:


> Good to know. Quiet coasting, fast engagement, reliability and pretty colors; maybe these go on my wishlist instead of the DT350's; the only thing I didn't like about my old Hadley (still running on a friend's frankenbike) was the angry bee sound.


True story: way back in the day of the dinosaurs (like, I mean v-brakes), I was a hotshot XC dork sponsored by Schwinn. We got snazzy $5000 (real money back then) bikes, in fact a couple of them each, every year. Quad butted 70 series aluminum, baby!

They came with DT 240 hubs (and titanium bars and stems that were terrifying to ride, but that's another story).

I rode those hubs with zero maintenance for 3 or 4 years. Relaced them onto some new rims when 29ers became a big deal and I got a girlfriend/life and stopped racing so seriously. Rode more years. Finally had no use for non-disc hubs and gave them to a friend for his cyclocross bike (back before you could UCI-legally use disc brakes on those!) and he rode them for several more.

I think he finally gave them to *another* friend. After 20 years. Still kicking.

I'll let you interpret that story however you want. 

-Walt


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Walt said:


> True story: way back in the day of the dinosaurs (like, I mean v-brakes), I was a hotshot XC dork sponsored by Schwinn. We got snazzy $5000 (real money back then) bikes, in fact a couple of them each, every year. Quad butted 70 series aluminum, baby!
> 
> They came with DT 240 hubs (and titanium bars and stems that were terrifying to ride, but that's another story).
> 
> ...


That's quite an endorsement. The Onyx costs $200 more than the DT350 and might be too good for my cheap and ugly but fun SDURO.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Walt
I get it regarding “turbo” mode.
I prefer moto trails because around here they offer un-groomed challenges.

I canceled the Stan’s wheel due to this threads suggestion.

I found a shop that will build me a DT 350 hubbed wheel for $480.

I was able to get my Haibike hub going again by sharpening the rounded over pawls, like sharpening a drill bit.
Not sure how long the back yard fix will last.
Hopefully till I get a new wheel. 
Thanks for the advice.
I now know the difference between pawl and ratchet drive.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

highroad 2 said:


> Walt
> I get it regarding "turbo" mode.
> I prefer moto trails because around here they offer un-groomed challenges.


That's how/where I would ride an e-bike too, to be fair (I'm also a former moto guy). Unfortunately that's one of the problems for access to non-motorized trails. I can *fly* on a bike with 500 extra watts available, it's awesome. It's also probably not appropriate outside of a moto trail.

Good call on the 350 wheel. You will be much happier with that setup than the Stan's.

-Walt


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