# Down to 4Runner, GX460 or Highlander ... yes, I want Toyota reliability.



## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

I nearly bought a 4Runner at the start of winter, as I thought my FWD car wouldn't cut it in the snow. Turns out some Michelin ice-x snow tires, and I'm good. But, my FWD is still 170,000 miles old, and things keep breaking (it's a Mexican VW). I also want something for camping/biking.

If the 2019 4Runner was the new shape, and not the 9th year of the model, and if it did 25% better mpg, then it's my dream car.

The GX is only $4k more, due to Lexus cutting amazing deals and Toyota not. Does essentially same mpg as 4Runner.

Then there's the more sensible Highlander SE ... but it's not so much a camping vehicle, but does 27mpg on highway (4Runner is like 21).

1) Why can Chevy have a diesel in the Colorado, and Ford are putting one in the Ranger, but Toyota can't bring in their Diesel engine that sells everywhere else? A 30mpg 4Runner would be a done deal. Literally would drive straight to the dealer and buy one.

2) Do those with 17/20mpg cars cringe when filling up?


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## jizzim (Dec 1, 2006)

I can't answer #1 but I can comment about #2. My daily (Jeep) gets 15 mpg. Cringe? Hell yes. Before I bought my 17 Wrangler Rubi I was heavily contemplating a 4Runner TRD Pro but no one wanted to wheel and deal with them.


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## beer_coffee_water (Mar 1, 2011)

Well, I'd go 4Runner because that is what we have. I had a 97 V6 and now an 07 V8. The V8 gets about 14-17 MPG. I don't particularly like the Lexus version of the 4th gen, it was too tall in the canopy and not as good looking to me as a 4Runner. The 5th gen still looks better than the latest GX460 to me but does not have the V8 option. Yes, the MPG is not that great but I have plenty of pedal and I like going fast. I used to have Jeep Wranglers and they were terrible on gas mileage but that wasn't their purpose.

I do have a friend who has a newer Highlander and it may be roomier than our 4Runner. I think that might be our next family vehicle because I have 3 kids and dog. Also the 4Runner is based off of the truck chassis having a solid axle is the rear while the Highlander is essentially a car drivetrain. I feel it is more capable off-road than a Highlander.

I would choose the 4Runner out of those choices.


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

I've had the 5th gen 4 runner and now the GX460. Bought the GX as I wanted the v8 to tow or simply drive thru the mt's here in CO and the wife a bit of a car snob so pushed for the GX over say a chev/ford/Nissan... 

Because they have the same underpinnings they are very similar yet some subtle differences. The quiet cabin and ride of the lexus is a plus for sure. Not the at the 4r is bad - you just get the lexus treatment in the GX. MPG - bout the same. Buddy has a highlander and loves it - but its not really off-road camping capable like either the lexus or 4R.

With the minimal diff in prices now - i'd go lexus all day as the upsides seem more than the compromises. I can also say I'd be happy owning the 4R again - and especially if towing wasn't a consideration thru high mt passes.

be keen to see IF the 19 4r is a truly new model or not - and than same with the lexus a model year later?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

2019 4runner:
https://blog.caranddriver.com/2019-toyota-4runner-trd-pro-be-a-tough-guy-or-just-look-like-one/


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

Yeah, 2019 4Runner is the same model as the 18. Knowing the new one must be really close, just holds me back on the 4Runner. The Lexus guy offered such a huge discount, which makes it an option.

Interesting to see 14-17 for the V8 4Runner, as that's the 4.7V8 that became the 4.6 in the Lexus, right?

Just so confusing to work out what's best, especially if Toyota finally bring a diesel in the 4Runner (or GX), then that would seal it. Although all the rumors at the moment are that the 3.5V6 from the Tacoma will go into the next 4Runner, and Tacoma owners hate it.

I'll hold off until next winter and see if I'm brave enough to go FWD again, or if summer camping with our other car (outback) was too cramped.

Thanks.


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## beer_coffee_water (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes, same engine as the Lexus GX460 and first gen Tundra, 4.7l v8. I like it except the whole timing belt maintenance. The 4.0 v6 has a timing chain along with a suspension that can handle higher speeds in the rough makes the 3rd gen Tacoma doublecab so appealing.

And definitely, a Hilux or Prada diesel in the states... oh man.


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

I agree with the GX not looking as good as the 4Runner. I was looking at an MSRP$60k GX, and they offered it for me for $50k. Yet the 4Runner was like $46.5k, and they'd only go down to $45k. But then a 4 year old used GX is still $35-40k, so you may as well go new.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

What's wrong with the Chevy? I'm not buying a new truck anytime soon, but if I did, it'd be that diesel Colorado. You'd need a lot of reliability to give up diesel mpg and torque.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

The 4.6 in the GX460 is not based on the 4.7 in the GX470. It's basically a sleeved down version of the 5.7 from the Tundra/Sequoia platform. It has a timing chain, not a belt, unlike the previous V8 so no timing belt replacement.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Highlander. Just a better vehicle IMO. If you are surviving with an old FWD VW, the Highlander will be a revelation. I work for an auot group that has chevy, toyota, and lexus, and FWIW, I have an 18 Colorado V6. First, DON'T BUY THE DIESEL. They drive like crap. Can you say worst turbo lag imaginable? And for like 1 or two mpg and an extra $4000? Not worth it IMO. Plus, the 6 spd is meh compared to the 8 spd in the gas. 

Sorry, back to the OP's question. I absolutely love older 4runners. I absolutely do not love the current gen... I don't really see them as doing much of anything very well. They aren't that spacious inside, they are way wider than they used to be so don't fit like they used to, and the gas mileage is still crap... I had a 96 V6 with 170k miles on it, regularly got 18-19, and I think it was rated 21, roughly the same in 2018? The highlander has better mileage, tons of room, great motor, and as a used car manager, I can say we have an easier time selling used highlanders than 4runners. 

As for wheeling and dealing Lexus v Toyota, Toyota has a lot less room to negotiate regardless of MSRP, so Lexus dealers looking to move old product can haggle more without losing too much. But, at the end of the day, you still will have paid more for a slightly higher end Toyota...


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

Yeah, I agree with the basic sentiment here. Pretty much comes down to how much "off-roading" you do and whether that would eliminate the lower clearance Highlander. I have a '13 4runner and no major complaints. I'm able to get 21-22 mpg with mostly highway driving. The only minor complaint I have (other than it does drive like a truck) are the transmission shift points. In order to maximize mpg's, I assume, it wants to upshift as quickly as possible even when the higher torque of a lower gear is more appropriate. A lot of unnecessary shifting occurs if you ask me.


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

garcia said:


> Highlander. Just a better vehicle IMO. If you are surviving with an old FWD VW, the Highlander will be a revelation. I work for an auot group that has chevy, toyota, and lexus, and FWIW, I have an 18 Colorado V6. First, DON'T BUY THE DIESEL. They drive like crap. Can you say worst turbo lag imaginable? And for like 1 or two mpg and an extra $4000? Not worth it IMO. Plus, the 6 spd is meh compared to the 8 spd in the gas.
> 
> Sorry, back to the OP's question. I absolutely love older 4runners. I absolutely do not love the current gen... I don't really see them as doing much of anything very well. They aren't that spacious inside, they are way wider than they used to be so don't fit like they used to, and the gas mileage is still crap... I had a 96 V6 with 170k miles on it, regularly got 18-19, and I think it was rated 21, roughly the same in 2018? The highlander has better mileage, tons of room, great motor, and as a used car manager, I can say we have an easier time selling used highlanders than 4runners.
> 
> As for wheeling and dealing Lexus v Toyota, Toyota has a lot less room to negotiate regardless of MSRP, so Lexus dealers looking to move old product can haggle more without losing too much. But, at the end of the day, you still will have paid more for a slightly higher end Toyota...


Thanks, that's all very good info. The Highlander SE appeals for those reasons.

Interesting about the chevy diesel Colorado. I saw that the Ford Ranger is likely to have diesel, but there are 2 diesels in other countries, and we get the lesser here.

As for off roading. I'm not planning to ''offload'' so much as camp. The 4Runner I'm most interested in is the Limited (I want heated seats, and the SR5 P comes with essentially vinyl. So it's Limited really). So the Highlander would do what I want, just would prefer more ground clearance.

Thanks, will have to get out and test drive some this spring.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

If yo plan on going offroad, skip the Highlander. I do like the new 4Runner a lot and it drives well. I have not driven the Lexus but I'd probably lean towards it just for the V8. I'd have to drive both back-to-back but going up the mountains, the V8 is fantastic. It would be a close call. I do have a V8 4.7L 4Runner and lifted 2014 Rubicon, but my favorite is a 2018 diesel Sierra. If the Lexus has a complicated electronic suspension or any XREAS type stuff, the 4Runner may be more appealing but the Lexus will be quieter and quicker. If the Lexus has a simple/traditional suspension, I'd go with it.


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## homey (May 24, 2004)

Funny, we found ourselves in the same situation a couple months ago... even had the Jetta with 180k! Short answer is get the Highlander.

Longer answer; the Lexus is amazing but suffers with not great gas mileage plus requires premium fuel on top of a thirsty motor. The 4Runner is a slow (to very slow) vehicle if you’re not gonna go off-road. The Highlander is perfect, if not a bit boring, for everything you’ll use it for. Great for camping, hauling bikes, gets decent MPG and runs on regular fuel. It’s fast enough to not think it needs more power, unlike the 4Runner, and does great in the snow. It feels premium and luxurious enough to make anyone who rides it think it’s a quasi-luxury car. 

Just get the Highlander and drive it 180,000 like you did with your VW. That’s our plan.


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

homey said:


> Funny, we found ourselves in the same situation a couple months ago... even had the Jetta with 180k! Short answer is get the Highlander.
> 
> Longer answer; the Lexus is amazing but suffers with not great gas mileage plus requires premium fuel on top of a thirsty motor. The 4Runner is a slow (to very slow) vehicle if you're not gonna go off-road. The Highlander is perfect, if not a bit boring, for everything you'll use it for. Great for camping, hauling bikes, gets decent MPG and runs on regular fuel. It's fast enough to not think it needs more power, unlike the 4Runner, and does great in the snow. It feels premium and luxurious enough to make anyone who rides it think it's a quasi-luxury car.
> 
> Just get the Highlander and drive it 180,000 like you did with your VW. That's our plan.


Thanks. Yeah, it makes so much sense. It's tough giving up on the dream of a 4Runner or luxury of GX ... But you're right, 27mpg on our longer trips will be great, quieter cabin etc.

I'll keep an eye out for a special, maybe 4th July or something. The SE is my preference, as it sounds like it'll driver better (more car like) on road, otherwise an XLE to get the 4rd row and captains chairs in the middle row.

Thanks.


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## Litemike (Sep 13, 2007)

If it matters, doesn't the Lexus have a side hinged rear door vs hatch of 4R?


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Anyone driven the new ford w/ that electric assist in front of the turbo? supposed to get great mpg (over 30 iirc) and zero lag


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

I would love to see Toyota bring the Prado to the U.S. but maybe they worry it will eat into Lexus sales. The GX is on my short list since I need an SUV that can tow and I don't want full size like a Sequoia.


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## rushman3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Some what OT....How well does two bikes (front tires off) fit in the back of newer 4Runners? I have a Honda Element and it works well, but time for a new car


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

rushman3 said:


> Some what OT....How well does two bikes (front tires off) fit in the back of newer 4Runners? I have a Honda Element and it works well, but time for a new car


To the best of my knowledge, 4Runners don't fit much in the back anymore. With tires off... maybe they would fit ok, but I was not impressed last I was in one.


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

rushman3 said:


> Some what OT....How well does two bikes (front tires off) fit in the back of newer 4Runners? I have a Honda Element and it works well, but time for a new car


I have a 2013 non-3rd row 4runner and a medium Ibis Ripley 29er (140mm fork) and 2007 Yeti 575 (26 in wheels). With the front wheels off, I can stand both bikes up inside (passenger side rear seat folded down, driver side rear seat still up) using fork mounts. The floor is elevated too high on the 3rd row 4runner to allow this though. When we bought this truck, I specifically looked for this capability.

I'm sure there are some larger and longer wheel base bikes that won't fit, but I believe most will.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

My 4Runner was superb in terms of reliability, a full frame vehicle, and in my case a good guide rig with AT tires and electric lockers. It and newer ones are not pleasant to drive the way other vehicles can be so we did not get another. We rent a pickup truck when needed. Our Outback gets all over ski club facility where I'm a director. It just is hard for me to see wanting a frame type and not so great handling or fuel economy vehicle when you don't really need it. Maybe I feel that way because I don't have any desire to play super trucker - in a previous life drove a Kenworth and always had to have a pickup truck.

We checked out the Highlander big time knowing no more need for something truck-like. It's very nice but my wife fell for Sienna SE. It was very clear you're driving the same platform. The SE is lowered an inch with better handling. It's got far more usable space. It's also near 300 HP these days. It's not the same as the Outback on the worst snow days but it's been great for winter use.

You need to get what works for you but I thought you might appreciate what we found with testing the Sienna SE against SUVs and wagons. At 20,000 on the odometer we appreciate it more than ever for an active lifestyle. The suspension, steering and wheel differences are small but big differences if that makes any sense.

The late model 4Runner, Highlander, Lexus versions and the two Sienna types including AWD are all owned in a circle of associates. IMO they're all very good. It might be easier for us to love the premium/sports minivan because we have the 4 cyl Outback too.


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## FirefighterMTN (Feb 6, 2012)

Just bought a '14 4Runner yesterday and though I wasn't looking at the same other vehicles as you, I had some of the same concerns. Mainly mpg as I was coming from Ford Focus that got a decent 32 mpg no matter how I drove. With that said, I was very limited with that car. Not much fun to tote kids or bikes around. I never drove on road trips with friends which is tough for me as I like to be in control of the vehicle. 

I ultimately chose the 4Runner for it's size, off-road potential, and reliability. True, Toyota does not like to change much, but that is a good thing for the longevity of their vehicles.

If they go with a more efficient power plant mated to a 6-10 speed transmission, I will definitely buy the new version when it comes out.

And, 100% not trying to be a dick, but 4Runner vs Highland is an apples/apples comparison. The Highlander is the urban wagon that can handle some kids and snow. The 4Runner can be a pretty effective Outland/Campig/Bike Trip vehicle!


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Two years ago when looking for a new vehicle, we had almost the same dilemma as you do. Note- We never buy new cars. We eventually settled on a very lightly used all wheel drive Lexus RX 350 (which is bascially a Highlander with a different body).

If your Outback was able to handle the roads/trails you use to go camping, an all wheel drive Highlander will as capable or maybe more capable than the Outback. If the vehicle will be your daily driver and then used for the occasional camping trip, if it was me, I'm going with the Highlander because it is going to be a better all around vehicle for the daily commute. test drive both, you'll see what I mean.

if you will be doing actual "off roading" on a regular basis, forget everything I just said. In that case, the 4 Runner is a no brainer. Most people who have a 4 Runner never come close to utilizing even half of its capabilities.


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## Litemike (Sep 13, 2007)

410sprint said:


> Two years ago when looking for a new vehicle, we had almost the same dilemma as you do. Note- We never buy new cars. We eventually settled on a very lightly used all wheel drive Lexus RX 350 (which is bascially a Highlander with a different body).
> 
> If your Outback was able to handle the roads/trails you use to go camping, an all wheel drive Highlander will as capable or maybe more capable than the Outback. If the vehicle will be your daily driver and then used for the occasional camping trip, if it was me, I'm going with the Highlander because it is going to be a better all around vehicle for the daily commute. test drive both, you'll see what I mean.
> 
> if you will be doing actual "off roading" on a regular basis, forget everything I just said. In that case, the 4 Runner is a no brainer. Most people who have a 4 Runner never come close to utilizing even half of its capabilities.


I am going to have to disagree with the HL being as capable ad an OB - I would say the Highlander has more room, but not the off road capabilities of a current OB.


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