# SS El Mariachi rigid vs.Karate Monkey



## shackleton47 (Mar 15, 2011)

Advantages /disadvantages of both.Will be used for endurance racing/mountainous terrain.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

Sorta feel like this is butthole opinion time.

Both are really good bikes. I'd pick the El Mar cause I wouldn't have the canti studs.


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## esundell90 (Dec 20, 2009)

umarth said:


> Sorta feel like this is butthole opinion time.
> 
> Both are really good bikes. I'd pick the El Mar cause I wouldn't have the canti studs.


Dosen't the new KM frame not have canti studs anymore? Or was it just the V-brake bosses?

I'll vote for the monkey, just because I personally like how versatile it is. You can literally do anything with it. It has nice short chain stays too, so it's nimble in the tricky stuff. It rides like a bike, just like Surly says. It may not blow you away in one area or another, but it sure does a lot of things well, and is a fun easy going and forgiving bike to ride, not to mention it can take a beating.


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## shackleton47 (Mar 15, 2011)

No more canti studs starting this year.Thanks for the input so far.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I made a similar thread a while back: http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/salsa-el-mar-surly-km-745056.html

I was considering a El Mariachi or a KM and I ended up with the KM. I work at a bike shop and I can get either of those bikes from QBP, but there was some red tape around ordering a Salsa product that did not exist with Surly products, so I went Surly. I love this bike so far, put on 100 miles over the past month with it on all the gnarliest trails I can find in north Georgia. I just bought the frameset and put parts from another bike on it. i don't know if it will make a better dedicated racer than the Salsa bike, but it's very versatile. this is actually my ONLY bike at present. I can put 700x38 hybrid tires and a RD and cassette on it and it makes a great commuter too after less than 30 minutes of conversion.

my KM- http://forums.mtbr.com/8919926-post2735.html

does your budget have any weight on this decision? were you planning to buy a complete El Mariachi or just build up a frame?


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

esundell90 said:


> Dosen't the new KM frame not have canti studs anymore? Or was it just the V-brake bosses?
> 
> I'll vote for the monkey, just because I personally like how versatile it is. You can literally do anything with it. It has nice short chain stays too, so it's nimble in the tricky stuff. It rides like a bike, just like Surly says. It may not blow you away in one area or another, but it sure does a lot of things well, and is a fun easy going and forgiving bike to ride, not to mention it can take a beating.


That is good news. Now I want one again.


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## esundell90 (Dec 20, 2009)

Just converting mine to SS and back to rigid. It's gonna be a good time this spring!!


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I did forget that the KM has a merciless fork. Worst of the steel forks I've ridden....


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

Advantage El Mar. duh.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

endurance racing = El Mariachi for sure


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## CB2 (May 7, 2006)

umarth said:


> I did forget that the KM has a merciless fork. Worst of the steel forks I've ridden....


Your such a delicate little flower.
I thought the KM fork was just a little too flexy. Rode pretty nice, but a tinch too much brake chatter for me.

*BUT* the KM *COMES* with a fork. El Mariachi, no señor.

The El Mariachi is kinda pretty; it goes with your eyes.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

Stevob said:


> endurance racing = El Mariachi for sure


+ 1

I endurance race on my el mar. It is amazing....more than I thought it would be, more comfortable than my last years fs rig was. No joke.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

CB2 said:


> Your such a delicate little flower.


That is what my girlfriend tells me when I cry.


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## ianick (Jul 10, 2006)

umarth said:


> I did forget that the KM has a merciless fork. Worst of the steel forks I've ridden....


New KM gets a fork makeover as well. From the Blog:

"Since we've got the do-everything Ogre to haul the load and help you explode, we thought we'd tinker a bit with the classic Karate Monkey. New for 2012, the venerable bench-mark of the 29" world will lose its cantilever brake studs and get a fork tune-up to the tune of thinner guage tubing. The geometry does not change. It just gets a bit more single(track) minded."

Rumor has it that the new fork is a Salsa CroMoto Grande. But that's just a rumor.


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## esundell90 (Dec 20, 2009)

I didn't think the KM's rigid fork was so bad. It tracks well and dosen't flex. Sure it's harsh, but it is a rigid fork afterall.


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## BigE610 (Oct 24, 2007)

Depends on what you want. I wanted a good steal mountain bike that I could take bikepacking or on the single track. I picked the El Mariachi because I have a versatile commuter bike already in my bianchi san jose. If you want a do everthying bike the KM is the way to go, however I would argue that the new Ogre would fit that bill even better. Good luck with your purchase. Im sure you wont be upset either way.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

*it ain't rigid but.....*

sure like the ride.


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

Tone No Balone said:


> it ain't rigid but.....


Mine is.



I never really got along with the stock 100mm Reba. The geo just didn't feel right to me & I've been on the Grande ever since. I will admit to more pedals strikes than I'd like. As soon as I can locate a spacer I intend to put my F29 at 80mm for next season. It should be money.

I bought some fancy new tele's this year which means 1. no snow, and b) no second sled build. The El Mar works nicely in all formats whether geared, ss, rigid, or otherwise.

Monkey's are probably ok, too.


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## trevrev97 (Jul 19, 2009)

I ride my full ridged 2011 El SS for 12 and 24 hour races and LOVE it, Air nine Carbon SS for 100 milers and what not.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

whats the rear tire clearance like on the current El Mariachi?


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

2.35 nobby nic fits, but I wouldn't go bigger. 2.4 is what salsa says fits I believe.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

My 2011 El Mar tire clearance is great on the seat stay and especially on the chain stays. I
have a 2.1 Python on the rear and there is tons of clearance. I don't know what the largest tire will fit but I would bet a 2.35/ 2.4 would make it?


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

rob1035 said:


> whats the rear tire clearance like on the current El Mariachi?


2.4 Ardent


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

TroutBum said:


> 2.4 Ardent


The spot where my frame's clearance is most limited is the non drive side seat stay. Is that common for the rest of you mariachi owners?


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

forgiven_nick said:


> The spot where my frame's clearance is most limited is the non drive side seat stay. Is that common for the rest of you mariachi owners?


I've been drinking a fair bit, but... do you not center your wheel?


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

TroutBum said:


> I've been drinking a fair bit, but... do you not center your wheel?


The wheel is centered between the chain stays and I find ample clearance there, but with a 2.35 knobby nic, the seat stay gaps are noticeably different between the drive and non drive seat stays.


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

forgiven_nick said:


> The wheel is centered between the chain stays and I find ample clearance there, but with a 2.35 knobby nic, the seat stay gaps are noticeably different between the drive and non drive seat stays.


...


TroutBum said:


> I've been drinking a fair bit *with your wheelsmith*


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## BrianU (Feb 4, 2004)

Both nice bikes that come from cool companies, but I would lean toward the Salsa. I really like the alternator dropouts vs the horizontal dropouts on the KM. I am no stranger to horizontal dropouts and prefer their simplicity over an eccentric BB any day, but Salsa's setup looks solid and I would think it would be considerably less tedious to remove and replace a wheel when fixing a flat.


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## esundell90 (Dec 20, 2009)

The monkey has enough clearance for just about anything except fat bike tires. Another plus


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

troutbum- thats the picture I wanted to see, thanks!


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## telenic (Jan 11, 2012)

El mar!


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

What type of terrain would benefit the most with shorter chain stays?


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

forgiven_nick said:


> The wheel is centered between the chain stays and I find ample clearance there, but with a 2.35 knobby nic, the seat stay gaps are noticeably different between the drive and non drive seat stays.


The wheel build is not responsible for the misalignment. Either the wheel is not seated properly in the dropouts, or the dropouts themselves are out of alignment, with one being higher than the other.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I miss all the fun.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

make your own fun ;-)


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