# Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc*

Finaly manufacturer of an old 2S2P battery case made a new improved one. The old one has virtualy gone out of stock at any known seller. I've got cases from two sources (Gearbest and Kaidomain) to see if there is any variance in the production. The case is mostly used to power bicycle lights with 4 Li-ion 18650 cells of your choice. Cells are set in a 2S2P configuration which gives double capacity and 8.4V or can be used in 2S1P configuration.

The information about it has been already published in the thread here but I would like to make it in one place since I've done some important measurments.

*Pictures of the case*:










































Electrical description:










There is an arror in description under nr. 6 - it should write: "USB maximum current ...... 2000mA"

The cells has to be inserted differently than with old case. It is marked in the case but I would advise you should mark it also on the cover near the springs so you can check again when you are closing the case. The cover is rectangular so it can't be placed in wrong direction. Cells are placed diagonaly so the cover can be inserted in any of two directions.










In the bottom of the case there are two connectors to connect cells in series.










What I don't like is that the all four are not cross connected like in the old case. That way electricaly looks like we would have two 8.4V cells in parallel. If they would be cross connected we would have like one big cell same as almost all welded 2S2P battery packs. What I'm also missing is the connection from the bottom to the protection circuit in order to check the voltage of each cell in series.

*Protection Circuit*

Big improvement in this new case is the protection circuit. I've made few measurments on different features.

*Overcharging cut off* kicks in somewhere at *8.46V* in both cases. So if the charger fails to stop charging protection circuit would cut it off. Big and the most important improvement over the old case. Next feature is *overdischarge protection*. There I've got mixed result depending on the case and the current. It was funny when running at low current ovedischarge protection kicked in quite late, to late for my opinion. I've got *4.60V* at virtual no load (0.02A just light connected), but *5.05V* at 2.4A load (regulated single XM-L driver). So the cut off would depend on the load and the light you are using. To me this is not that important as I've found 4 different 2 led lights starts dimming much before and you'll notice low voltage anyway. Underdischarge protection restores at *6.0V* at both samples if the cells can regenerate to that extend.

There are three status lights which shows the status (ie. voltage) of the pack when you push on the On/Off switch near to them.


*Frame source**Gearbest**Kaidomain*3 status leds8.4V8.4V2 status leds7.45V7.60V1 status led6.95V7.10V1 status led flashing6.45V6.60V

So the difference is constant 0.15V - not that much and probably due to resistors tolerance on the PCB. Showing status leds takes the 0.5mA current out of the batteries.

*
*

*Standby current *

Or in another words self discharging. By description it should be 10 microA. No way near the truth or it is just a mistake in the description: micro instead of mili. I've got *8.6mA* with the Gearbest sample and *8.5mA* with the Kaidomain sample. This can be of concern if you are leaving the pack uncharged for longer period. If we take the lowest 18650 cells capacity of 2200mAh we would use nowadays (ie. 4400mAh for the pack) it woud get drained in a 4400/8.5 = 518h or *21 days*. This is bad news so be aware and take the cells out of the box when not used or recharged for more than 3 weeks or with higher capacities for a month.

Latest test shows this parasitic drain stays active all the time even when the cells drain below overdischarge point. This is dissapointing to me. Yet I can recall the similar issue with Magicshine ALU pack with led display showing the status. They might clone their circuit, though 

*USB Output*

Some would find it usable and some not. For the ones who would like to connet GPS/Phone in paralell to the light this would be usable. For the others this might be just unneded appendix. Anyway I've measure output voltage and got it 5.02V. It could charged my phone so it delivers at least 1A.

*Pros:*


*protection circuit with overcharge and overdischarge protection*
showing the stage of the pack
smaller and lighter than before
wide strap to fasten it to the bicycle frame
USB output (for some people only)
interchangable battery cells
cells can be charged outside of the case - balancing possibilities

*Cons:*


no cross connections in the bottom of the case
no connection from the bottom to the PCB
only Solarstorm type of connector (compatible somewhat with Magicshine, though)
no or bad water resistance (would need bit thicker o-ring)
no watter tight cover for USB connector
*high standby current of 8.5mA*

*
*

*Overall impression*

*
*It is nice case and unfortunately the only one of that type I know. This version is more usable than previos one and much more safe to use, just like welded battery packs we are mostly see in the bicycle light sets. To bad it doesn't have cross connections at the bottom and wire to the PCB. In this regard welded battery packs are still better. On the other hand you can charge cells individualy from time to time to get balanced, but you need additional individual (multibay) charger. To bad the case is not very water resistant. Using some silicone grease would help to solve that somewhat. Big issue that I see now is high standby current of 8.5mA. Be aware and take cells out of the case when not used for a longer period ie. more than 3-4 weeks.

*To test* in the future:
Would need to test also short protection and overcurrent protection. Actualy I would leave short test as a last thing to do and I don't have any high current drain device prepared right now. Would need to think of something....

Max. USB current is also to be tested in the future.

*
*

*EDIT:*

*Protection circuit pictures*

*
*

  

 

Any comments and suggestions to enhance the review are welcome.


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## aandegrens (Oct 10, 2012)

Good review, thanks for this.
What kind of batteries do you recommend?
With or without protection?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Nice review. Two questions:
Does using a box have an effect on runtimes? In other words given the same cells would output and runtime be similar to that of a welded pack?

Understanding batteries can be charged in the box, would it be better especially long term to use a seperate smart charger, given that a Magicshine charger or Glowworm from Action led is just a few bucks less than a 4 bay smart charger. With Lipo's I'm always cautious


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

GJHS said:


> Understanding batteries can be charged in the box, would it be better especially long term to use a seperate smart charger, given that a Magicshine charger or Glowworm from Action led is just a few bucks less than a 4 bay smart charger. With Lipo's I'm always cautious


As pointed out, this battery case doesn't have wiring coming from the middle (bottom contacts), so it is not able to monitor the balance of the cells while they are being charged. This is potentially dangerous, especially with unprotected cells, if one cell of either of the 2S pairs starts off at a lower voltage the other cell could easily get overcharged before the total voltage of the pair hits 8.4v.

In my opinion it is definitely safer to use a good quality 4 bay smart charger (and good quality cells like NCR18650). I'm currently using NiteCore D4 to charge the batteries used in these battery boxes.


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## Waldens (Mar 5, 2013)

Nice review! Does it has USB charging function?


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Do any of our standard welded packs have that extra connection between the and the bottom of the pack that you list as a negative here? Am I correct in assuming that's for balancing?

I don't know what I'm talking about electrically, but could the cross connection between the two sides of the pack be done via a trace on the PCB? If so, is it?

Is the voltage regulation for the USB port implemented on the board (ie four wires to the board), or is it done at the USB connector? I suppose it could also be implemented at the Y in the cable.

PS: The pictures don't seem to be working. May I suggest uploading them to MTBR, rather than using external links.


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## aandegrens (Oct 10, 2012)

What's the function of the on/off switch for?
My light works in both settings!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

aandegrens said:


> Good review, thanks for this.
> What kind of batteries do you recommend?
> With or without protection?


I would recommend unprotected but well known brand cells like Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, LG, Sony. This would be also partialy answer to the others too.
Let me explain how I would (and will) use that pack. I'm going to use one of the brands above and charge them with 8.4V charger as I usualy do with all other packs. Since I allways check each charger behaviour when I get one I would know it should charge correctly and the protecton circuit in the pack is adding to safety. Mind you the previos version didn't have any overcharging protection leaving you solely on the charger safety. From time to time I'm going to take the cells out and charge them individualy in my 2 bay shargers (I'm using Nitecore i2, Basen, Xtar) so all cells would be charged full and balanced that way. Of course prior that I'll measure the voltage of each cell to see how they differ and mix cells in the best way to achive even discharge. 
Probably most of users won't do it the way I do, but this is the most safe way retainig practical usage (not opening the case each time and charge them outside). Since I know the cells very well I'm pretty shure how they would behave. I've measured near 100 cells so far and I know how trusted thos brands can be. Panasonic even when shorted won't blow up. It would heat enormously, though.

Next thing why I would use unprotected is voltage drop. I wrote there over at BLF. "Shure it is additional protection but it adds 2x on the voltage drop too. There is some variance in the protection circuits in the cell so they act each bit differently. Next, undercharge protection would trip in one pair before the other which leads to unevenly discharged cells. Also in this case you have to take the cells out in order to reset the protection. Well it depends whic cell in the series it was. "


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Nice review. Two questions:
> 1.Does using a box have an effect on runtimes? In other words given the same cells would output and runtime be similar to that of a welded pack?
> 
> 2. Understanding batteries can be charged in the box, would it be better especially long term to use a seperate smart charger, given that a Magicshine charger or Glowworm from Action led is just a few bucks less than a 4 bay smart charger. With Lipo's I'm always cautious


1. It will have almost same effect on the run time as the welded packs with the protection circuit. There can be some differencies in the voltage drop since there are other elements in the circuit and mainly because of the spring contacts. Later at some time I might try to measure the differencies and I have some ideas for improvement most people would not do. It is hard to dissasemble the pack to get to the circuit.

2. As I wrote in the previous post, iI would combine both type of chargers for practical and safety reasons. Most of the time I would use 8.4V charger and from time to time separately charge cells individualy.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Waldens said:


> Nice review! Does it has USB charging function?


No, it is USB output only. I think I've pointed out that in the review. It is 8.4V pack so it can't be charged by 5V input unless there would be a stepup circuit included.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

kwarwick said:


> As pointed out, this battery case doesn't have wiring coming from the middle (bottom contacts), so it is not able to monitor the balance of the cells while they are being charged. This is potentially dangerous, especially with unprotected cells, if one cell of either of the 2S pairs starts off at a lower voltage the other cell could easily get overcharged before the total voltage of the pair hits 8.4v.
> 
> In my opinion it is definitely safer to use a good quality 4 bay smart charger (and good quality cells like NCR18650). I'm currently using NiteCore D4 to charge the batteries used in these battery boxes.


I've already answered that, I hope, in previos posts. You are right, if it doesn't have middle connection one cell can be overcharged over the other. But as I said with good quality brand cell there is very small chance this would happen to significant extent in a short time (ie. 5 - 10 cycles). I've suggested I would take them out from time to time and charge the cells individualy. Checking voltage of the cells prior individual charge would give you information if the are starting to differ and you will know it then. Charging individualy would balance them again. AFAIK, no welded battery pack of whatsoever type has balancing feature integrated. They have overcharge protection. Having middle connection are better in this regard, but they can't be balanced unless disassembled. So there are Pro and Con.

I also agree charging with 4 bay charger would be the best, but quite impractical. Ok if you use it very seldom, but not when you are doing it on daily basis.

Those problems were actualy described in the review, I think.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ian_C said:


> Do any of our standard welded packs have that extra connection between the and the bottom of the pack that you list as a negative here? Am I correct in assuming that's for balancing?
> 
> I don't know what I'm talking about electrically, but could the cross connection between the two sides of the pack be done via a trace on the PCB? If so, is it?
> 
> ...


Most if not all welded battery pack has milddle conection, but it is used for overcharging purposes only, not balancing. That is the main shortcoming for all of them.

No, the cross connection can only be done at the bottom of the case between all four contacts.

I assume the USB voltage regulation is done on the board. I didn't opened it yet since I have to desloder all four spring in order to get there. This might destroy the usabilty of the pack. I might do it in the future, though

No one complained about the pictures in any of my reviews and I'm using same storage service. Can you explain bit more about the problem?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

aandegrens said:


> What's the function of the on/off switch for?
> My light works in both settings!


The purpose of the switch is solely to show the status of the pack ie. the voltage range. It should be off most of the time unless you want to constantly monitor the status. Be aware it uses some power so it very slowly drains the cells.
I should measure that somehow, though. Will add on to-do list.


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## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

*Old & New Solarstorm Battery Boxes*

Hey!

Thank you for the fine review and all the work for it!

I'm using boxes of both generations and I would not call the later model improved, rather different. I actually find the new box inferior to the old box. While using protected cells charged individually and having no use for a USB output either all the new features are more of a hindrance than a help.

I ran a simple voltage drop comparison test to see how the two different generation boxes perform under around 3.4 ampere load provided with an XM-L2 Solarstorm XT40 light. Both boxes had protected 2600 mAh Sanyo batteries fresh from chargers in them and were used for few moments prior to any recorded values to get past the sharp voltage drop at the beginning. Readings under load were taken after they kept constant for around five seconds.

With the old box voltage dropped from 8.34 volts at rest to 7.13 volts under load and with the new box voltage dropped from 8.36 volts at rest to 7.03 volts under load. I was surprised to see such a major voltage drop under load, but it could be due to my test setting with an extra pair of connectors, and disappointed to see such a voltage difference.

After these measurements I realized that many of my power draw estimations are done with too great voltage values, that these boxes really bite hard on voltage and that I like the old box even better now.

Good rides!

JK


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

The pix are working now. It must have been a glitch. When I looked yesterday the close ups of the pack were blank/broken links.

Does the thickness of the wire seem to change above and below the Y? If it's thicker below the Y that might indicate four wires, and therefore stepdown done at the board. If they're the same thickness, I'd speculate that the change is done at the USB head.


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## epic-gamer (Aug 18, 2012)

<JK> said:


> With the old box voltage dropped from 8.34 volts at rest to 7.13 volts under load and with the new box voltage dropped from 8.36 volts at rest to 7.03 volts under load. I was surprised to see such a major voltage drop under load
> JK


The new box has PCB, so it should read lower...is that why?


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## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi!



epic-gamer said:


> The new box has PCB, so it should read lower...is that why?


Yeah, the protection circuit board for sure takes its toll, and is useless to boot with protected cells, but there could be more to it like worse cables and battery holding springs. Also the step down circuit draws surprisingly much power, as Cat-man-do pointed out in another thread, you can't store batteries in the case for prolonged time if you like them topped up and ready for a ride.

Happy trails!

JK


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

*Can we see inside the cover?*

Thanks for the great review! Can we see inside the cover? It looks like just 2 screws to access the board inside. It would be interesting to see the circuitry for the USB charging function and just the general layout and quality of the wiring inside.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

kwarwick said:


> Thanks for the great review! Can we see inside the cover? It looks like just 2 screws to access the board inside. It would be interesting to see the circuitry for the USB charging function and just the general layout and quality of the wiring inside.


Yes will do that, but there is not much to see unless you unsolder all four springs from the PCB. All elements except the switch and status leds are hidden on the other side.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

<JK> said:


> Hey!
> 
> Thank you for the fine review and all the work for it!
> 
> ...


Thanks JK for your comment. I have to say you are doing unfair comparation. If you use protected cells in both cases and we put asside spring resistance for the moment with old case you are getting resistance of the cells PCB while with newer case you are getting resistance of the cells PCB + resistance of the case PCB. So the voltage drop has to be bigger. There is no way to be different. With your test you can't say which resistance is bigger. In order to know that you should test also with the unprotected cells. 
To me the most resistance could be in the springs, cable and connector anyway, but I have yet to prove that.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Yes will do that, but there is not much to see unless you unsolder all four springs from the PCB. All elements except the switch and status leds are hidden on the other side.


Ah, I was hoping they put all electronics on the opposite side to the one the springs are on... more dumb design.

One possible advantage I can see for this version is because they haven't tied the two sets of series strings of cells together at the bottom it would be easier to convert this into a 4S configuration. Of course all the electronics on that top board would likely need to be discarded or at least re-calibrated for the higher voltage, but I have some lights that use 4S so I'm thinking along these lines.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes 4S would be possible I think. As you said the board would need to be redesigned, cut out some traces and change wireing. Protection would have to be eliminated as it is shurely designed only for 2S.
I will probably desolder springs at some time in the future in order to measure springs resistance.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Finaly manufacturer of an old 2S2P battery case made a new improved one. The old one has virtualy gone out of stock at any known seller.


Many thanks for comprehensive review! :thumbsup:As for me, this version is significantly worse than old one; too bad it's impossible to order previous model anymore.

BTW, how the new case is made at the end opposite to the opening? I mean, is it molded as single piece of plastic, or there's some kind of "rear cover? glued to the case? If it would be possible to open it there, adding the connection between all four points and the wire to the PCB might fix most of design flaws.

Also, change of PCB will allow to use modern high-voltage cells, and probably it's better to discard USB output part to prevent useless discharge of the battery during storage. Additional pictures of electronics inside the cover are highly appreciated!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, the case is made in single peice ie. molded. To bad it can't be opened at the bottom. I think we would need to talk with the manufacturer to change design.

Picture of the circuit would be hard to get, but will try for the cost of possible damage to the case cover. In order to reach the electronics you have to unsolder all four springs. 

I've just measured another flaw and will update the review soon. It was already pointed out by JK above. Here we goes with complete chapter:

"*Standby current*

Or in another words self discharging. By description it should be 10 microA. No way near the truth or it is just a mistake in the description: micro instead of mili. I've got 8.6mA with the Gearbest sample and 8.5mA with the Kaidomain sample. This can be of concern if you are leaving the pack uncharged for longer period. If we take the lowest 18650 cells capacity of 2200mAh we would use nowadays (ie. 4400mAh for the pack) it woud get drained in a 4400/8.5 = 518h or 21 days. This is bad news so be aware and take the cells out of the box when not used or recharged for more than 3 weeks or with higher capacities for a month.

Latest test shows this parasitic drain stays active all the time even when the cells drain below overdischarge point. This is dissapointing to me. Yet I can recall the similar issue with Magicshine ALU pack with led display showing the status. They might clone their circuit, though "

This will change the whole impression of the pack significantly. I was thought 10uA as described by manufacturer is no issue at all, but 10mA is the whole another story.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

I guess you could unscrew the lid for storage, or put some sort of insulator between the cells and springs.

I'd be willing to bet it's the stepdown to 5v for the USB that's causing the drain.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes of course, puting a sheet of paper in beween would insulate enough to prevent contact for long term storage.

Will try desolder the springs and see what is the circuit beneath. Then we can try to cut out the USB stepdown if this is the cause. But still, Magicshine ALU pack does not have USB output and it still drains the cells.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Too bad it has a threaded Solar Storm type connector and not the standard Magicshine snap-in type. I realize they work, but not as secure as they could be.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

*Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc*



TiGeo said:


> Too bad it has a threaded Solar Storm type connector and not the standard Magicshine snap-in type. I realize they work, but not as secure as they could be.


I've found the threaded cables to be much better than the old magicshine ones. Much easier to separate (when you want them to) because the connectors don't get stiff in the cold and they have a proper o-ring to keep moisture out. Why do you say they are less secure?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

kwarwick said:


> I've found the threaded cables to be much better than the old magicshine ones. Much easier to separate (when you want them to) because the connectors don't get stiff in the cold and they have a proper o-ring to keep moisture out. Why do you say they are less secure?


I think he means that the threaded SolarStorm connectors aren't secure when used with lights that have Magicshine connectors or basically when mixing connectors.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Yes, sorry I wasn't more clear. I agree; the threaded connectors are great and I wish Gemini, Magicshine, etc. would go to these.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Added the pictures of the PCB to the end of the review. Clicking on it should show full size.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the great review ledoman!

-Garry


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Added the pictures of the PCB to the end of the review. Clicking on it should show full size.


Thanks for adding those pictures and risking your battery box to obtain them!

It will take some analysis of the circuitry but it looks like it would not be too difficult to disable the USB output if indeed that is the cause of the parasitic drain.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

kwarwick, I would be glad if you can analyze the circuit. If you need me to do some measurments just say so. I hope you can easily recognize where the spring holes are located.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

*Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc*



ledoman said:


> kwarwick, I would be glad if you can analyze the circuit. If you need me to do some measurments just say so. I hope you can easily recognize where the spring holes are located.


I've got one coming soon from gearbest so once it arrives I'll do some dissection and see if I can figure out what gives.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Latest test shows this parasitic drain stays active all the time even when the cells drain below overdischarge point. This is dissapointing to me.


Yes, that's bad. Hopefully, this is caused by 5v converter, which can be disabled by cutting some traces on PCB.



> Yet I can recall the similar issue with Magicshine ALU pack with led display showing the status. They might clone their circuit, though


I've heard that, but my MJ-828 battery doesn't seem to have excessive self-discharge rate. Perhaps, early models were affected my that flaw...

Thanks for the pictures of electronics! Fixture of output cable by E-type washer seems really unacceptable, BTW.

The more I know about this box, the less I like it...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> The more I know about this box, the less I like it...


Yes, me too, unfortunately. 
Now when I've rethinked a bit about it, it could be done with simple On/Off clicky switch. When Off it should act only as a protection circuit. When On it should act as USB output and show status leds in adition to protection. Simple as that. Still someone could forget to switch it off, but at least the majority of users would benefit from it.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Yes, me too, unfortunately.
> Now when I've rethinked a bit about it, it could be done with simple On/Off clicky switch. When Off it should act only as a protection circuit. When On it should act as USB output and show status leds in adition to protection. Simple as that. Still someone could forget to switch it off, but at least the majority of users would benefit from it.


Using my connection, while I have it, I had asked Dora a few weeks ago to source a different box, perferrably one without protection so whe can use higher capacity cells.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

GJHS said:


> Using my connection, I had asked Dora a few weeks ago to source a different box, perferrably one without protection so whe can use higher capacity cells.


Old-style one would be most appropriate, if it's still manufactured.

As for this one, it seems too overloaded with unneeded (for most users) bells and whistles, and have too poor electronics onboard. If I'll indeed get this box for free from GearBest, I'll discard +5v part and Y-cable, and try to restore normal functionality of protection circuit. Currently, according to pictures, it seems to use "simulated" middle point by using resistive divider (R9 and R10), so it should be possible to re-wire the U4 IC properly: supposedly, that VA7022 is some copy of Fortune Semiconductor DW-01. Two switching 8205A dual MOSFETs are adequate for most loads, and U2 "voltmeter"/status LED driver should be still operational. The only concern is, too low triggering voltage of overcharge limit, unsuitable for modern 4.35v cells - but maybe it's possible to adjust it.

For middle point, I think, most simple way is to drill the bottom wall and make necessary connection, then cover it with some epoxy.


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

TiGeo said:


> Too bad it has a threaded Solar Storm type connector and not the standard Magicshine snap-in type. I realize they work, but not as secure as they could be.


correct!


kwarwick said:


> Much easier to separate (when you want them to) because the connectors don't get stiff in the cold ../QUOTE]
> agreed
> 
> 
> ...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Found the original unprotected case on eBay*

4 X 18650 Water Resistant Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Bicycle Lamp

EDIT: from Buyers' Feedback, looks like the vendor is fulfilling orders with the newer model.

"Positive feedback rating	Received slightly different design, but item still works as intended."

P.S.: Just checked my Alu/Poly MJ-828 battery pack after having charged it last about a week ago. Was down to 8.2v. Connecting the original MagicShine charger, its indicator LED remained Green, while the display on the 828 immediately jumped to 8.3. Suppose it must trickle charge because when I checked on it a while later the voltage had climbed all the way to 8.4


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm. I found a similar listing a month ago and ordered. I was given a non-working tracking number. After about 30 days of no tracking updates I contacted the seller and they immediately refunded me. Not saying that this will be the same, just saying I went down this road before. It's worth a shot though if you don't mind tying up those funds for awhile. 

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Never Mind.*

Well this vendor scores 99%. But checking through the buyer's feedback, the only mention I could find for this item was:

Positive feedback rating	Received slightly different design, but item still works as intended.

So guess they're actually shipping the newer model and haven't updated the page to reflect that. D'oh!

Will edit previous post grumble grumble.

But KD still sells their waterproof case with batteries included (the multicolored ones that come with their MJ-880 clone), it's only $16/17 and
the case alone got rave reviews here (I'd discard the batteries immediately.)


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> But KD still sells their waterproof case with batteries included (the multicolored ones that come with their MJ-880 clone), it's only $16/17 and
> the case alone got rave reviews here (I'd discard the batteries immediately.)


I won't recommend this one. It's very tight for some batteries (in my case, Panasonics 3100), so you'll have to disassemble it completely in order to push the cells out. Screws won't last long if this will be done several times. The protection PCB in my box was not operational: no intervention either on overdischarge nor overcharge. The wire from middle point soldered directly to the PCB, and was accidentally pulled during cells replacement: trace and several SMD components soldered near it were destroyed. Insulation of original cable cracked in multiple zones after several months of use. Etc, etc...


----------



## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

*New Box Modified*

Hello!

I bypassed the protection circuit of the new box by disassembling the lid and moving power wires straight to battery terminal lines. I also did the same voltage drop test I did earlier with promising results. Point to note is that some of the battery holding springs were free to turn meaning they were not in place properly and probably hindered the performance in the earlier test to some degree.



<JK> said:


> With the old box voltage dropped from 8.34 volts at rest to 7.13 volts under load and with the new box voltage dropped from 8.36 volts at rest to 7.03 volts under load.


With the modified box voltage dropped from 8.33 volts at rest to 7.16 volts under load.

These measurements are not accurate by any means, but do give a rough idea of what might be going on and it seems that the modification was well worth doing. Getting rid of the step down circuit and the thin wiring preceding the Y-piece might be worth trying out too.



kwarwick said:


> I still think the voltage drop is a lot. I wonder how much of it is the particular batteries vs. the battery box? Often the protection circuits of the batteries are responsible for a lot of added resistance limiting their ability to deliver high currents. Have you tried using good quality unprotected cells to see if this reduces the voltage drop? Maybe I'll do some test with some unprotected NCR18650B and some NCR18650PDs I have.


It is a lot, but it's also the voltage drop after some time under load, not the initial voltage drop. I didn't find it even remotely accurate to randomly pick the first reading I'd be able to get as the voltage dives at the beginning of the load. I only use protected batteries, the ones used here are protected Sanyo UR18650ZY's, so unfortunately I can't do a comparison. I do want to point out that these are not absolute measurements, but remote pointers of performance. Thank you for the comments!

Enjoyable trail time!

JK


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

<JK> said:


> Hello!
> 
> I bypassed the protection circuit of the new box by disassembling the lid and moving power wires straight to battery terminal lines. I also did the same voltage drop test I did earlier with promising results. Point to note is that some of the battery holding springs were free to turn meaning they were not in place properly and probably hindered the performance in the earlier test to some degree.
> 
> ...


I still think the voltage drop is a lot. I wonder how much of it is the particular batteries vs. the battery box? Often the protection circuits of the batteries are responsible for a lot of added resistance limiting their ability to deliver high currents. Have you tried using good quality unprotected cells to see if this reduces the voltage drop? Maybe I'll do some test with some unprotected NCR18650B and some NCR18650PDs I have.


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## walloftvs (Jan 5, 2015)

Dumb question, but will this work with flat top cells, or can I only use button tops?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Both would do just fine. I would suggest flat top for better conduction.


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

mines been on my desk for a week. Do you think I'll be ok harvesting the cells from my new SecurityIng for this pack?

its actually a nice little box 2 things frustrate me though. The floppy usb cable that I don't want / need and the lack of 3m foam or rubber down one side. I'll have to hack up an innertube before I Velcro it to my frame.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Is THIS the battery box everybody is looking for?*

Someone mentioned this (unprotected) PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case in a previous post here and I see it is available again from DX, $13.59. Also comes with a velcroed nylon pouch, which would have soved spankone's problem (see above.)


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Noticed a good idea from the review for that model - someone should make a 26650x4 battery case - can use cheap but decent $5 26650 4000mAh cells and still have extra long runtime.



andychrist said:


> Someone mentioned this (unprotected) PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case in a previous post here and I see it is available again from DX, $13.59. Also comes with a velcroed nylon pouch, which would have soved spankone's problem (see above.)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anybody know either where to find a nice water-resistant "bag" for this case? Got a pretty good one along with a "6600mAh" TrustFire last year, has like this non-woven, hexagonal patterned siliconey thing going on which I've never seen any other place. Problem with that bag though, just one thin strap off center.









As previously mentioned, this slick hard case is not deemed entirely waterproof, and the included velcro strap, while nice and wide, offers little in the way of traction or protection.

Thanks for any helpful links.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi Ledoman and others

I received the battery case as a gift together with the Yinding from Gearbest.

As far as I understand, I have 2 options to charge the batteries:
- connect a classical wall charger (I have about 4 at home, always included with the light units I bought) and connect it as if it was a soldered battery pack
- charge separately the batteries using Xtar, Nitecore or any other 18650 charger. 

And the best would be to combine both methods: charge every now and then the batteries separately otherwise charge them together.

Following that advice, I just ordered a XTar VP2 charger (25$ at GB).

Now only one thing missing, batteries :-D

As the box is protected, I think I better buy unprotected cells.
A preference here? Wasn't there a model to avoid because of higher voltage?

Thx!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

If you're looking for the highest capacity at the best price:

#1. SKU 1141100 - Panasonic NCR18650B Rechargeable 3400mAh 3.7V 18650 Lithium Batteries

Don't forget to enter the promo code BLF

Ordered mine from Fasttech yesterday afternoon and have already received a tracking number. That's not gonna happen from another vendor.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

FastTech is one of the slowest vendors to order batteries from. I'm not real sure who is the best/fastest in Asia now as I buy within the US.

-Garry


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok cool!

Ordered 4


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

jeanphi500 said:


> As the box is protected, I think I better buy unprotected cells.


Do not trust protection PCB found in cheap batteries/boxes etc, unless you've actually tested and verified it yourself! I've seen several examples of non-operational PCBs in various Chinese stuffs, including battery box (not exactly this one, but similar)...


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

This one seemed ok on that point, according to Ledoman ...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> FastTech is one of the slowest vendors to order batteries from. I'm not real sure who is the best/fastest in Asia now as I buy within the US.
> 
> -Garry


Yeah well if you choose their free shipping option with ChinaPost is says like 30-60 days. :eekster: I paid the extra $5 for two week expedited, the promo code made up for the difference. Dunno what the options are shipping to Europe.

Ordered bunch of stuff from both KD and GB over past coupla weeks and not so much as a tracking number yet, so... Eh. I can wait til Spring.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

jeanphi500 said:


> This one seemed ok on that point, according to Ledoman ...


According to Ledoman review on first page, this box implements highly unusual connection scheme: serial connection of two cells first, then parallel connection of resilting pairs in parallel, with no sensing wire from the middle point(s).

It is fundamentally impossible for protection PCB to determine actual voltage of particular cell in that design - it just *assumes *that voltage is supposed to be equal between two cells in each pair...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> According to Ledoman review on first page, this box implements highly unusual connection scheme: serial connection of two cells first, then parallel connection of resilting pairs in parallel, with no sensing wire from the middle point(s).
> 
> It is fundamentally impossible for protection PCB to determine actual voltage of particular cell in that design - it just *assumes *that voltage is supposed to be equal between two cells in each pair...


But this SHOULD BE ok with quality matched cells, and this is also why it is suggested to "balance the cells" by charging them in an external charger. In any case, I'd trust this box with quality cells much more than a cheap Chinese welded pack!

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> But this SHOULD BE ok with quality matched cells,


Correct. But I doubt sellers like FastTech are doing impedance & capacity measurements and cell matching before shipping. 

External charger for separate cells will circumvent any possible problems with charge - but it won't help during actual use (i.e. discharge).


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok I guess I can try to do my best to match the cells before inserting them in the case ;-)

I'm not worried if my cells are not at their optimal usage. They will anyway be better than my usual battery sets.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

jeanphi500 said:


> Ok I guess I can try to do my best to match the cells before inserting them in the case ;-)
> 
> I'm not worried if my cells are not at their optimal usage. They will anyway be better than my usual battery sets.


With Panasonic you can't miss. Of course it is good to mark cells and check them ocasionaly to see how they differ. As suggested before I would combine both charging methods when use the pack frequently.

*Because parasitic drain DON'T FORGET to disconnect/take out the cells when not used for longer time*. With Panasonic 3400 this period is about 1 month.

Regarding chargers, I'm working on 8.4V 2A Li-Ion charger to have much shorter charging times. Currently I'm searching for a good manufacturer. Then GB will take over if they decided to do so. Should make a new thread to see what is the demand..... Is there on this site soem voting tool or similar?


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Regarding chargers, I'm working on 8.4V 2A Li-Ion charger to have much shorter charging times. Currently I'm searching for a good manufacturer. Then GB will take over if they decided to do so. Should make a new thread to see what is the demand..... Is there on this site soem voting tool or similar?


That's awesome! As some of us already know, some of these Chinese wall plug chargers rated "1000mA" don't put out anywhere near 1A! And with a pack of good high capacity cells there is no problem with charging at 2A!

By the way, I'm expecting delivery of my 2 SolarStorm battery boxes today - any minute now.

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Regarding chargers, I'm working on 8.4V 2A Li-Ion charger to have much shorter charging times. Currently I'm searching for a good manufacturer.


What is expected end-user price?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> What is expected end-user price?


I'm nowere near at that point. Shurely it won't be super cheap. Don't know what the GB can do to lower the price. First offer for the single sample from the first manufacturer I've found was $6 without shippment. The neto weight was 190gr.
I'm shure there are quite few manufacturers who can produce that kind of device. I need to do quite some work to find competition.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

garrybunk said:


> FastTech is one of the slowest vendors to order batteries from. I'm not real sure who is the best/fastest in Asia now as I buy within the US.
> 
> -Garry


Just got confirmation on my 2 neutral yindings being shipped, maybe I should start thinking about batteries. 
Mind if I ask who you use in the US? 
I'm thinking of buying protected cells and doing the "de-protection" mod on the box.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sure, I buy from http//www.mtnelectronics.com/. Another good supplier is Illumination supply. Both are active users on BudgetLightForum.

-Garry


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## <JK> (Apr 18, 2006)

*Some More Voltage Tests*

Good day!

I ran some more voltage tests on my quest to find out the better box for my most power hungry light. This time I made it so that the test setting can be easily reproduced if needed.

Three battery packs were used. A random four cell stock pack, an old model Solarstorm box and a modified new model Solarstorm box which power wires are connected straight to battery terminal lines to bypass the protection circuit in hopes of better performance.

Protected 2600 mAh Sanyo UR18650ZY's were used in the boxes. The random pack has never been torn apart, but it has around half the capacity of a Sanyo set. All the batteries were fully charged prior to the test. Around 3.4 ampere load was provided with an XM-L2 Solarstorm XT40 light.

The resting voltage was measured prior to and two minutes after the load. The supply voltage was measured around every 30 seconds for a duration of three minutes.

RND: Random pack voltage (V)
Old: Old box voltage (V)
New: Modified new box voltage (V)

Time	RND	Old	New

0:00 8.43	8.39	8.40	- unloaded

0:30	7.34	7.20	7.17
1:00	7.24	7.13	7.12
1:30	7.20	7.09	7.08
2:00	7.16	7.07	7.06
2:30	7.13	7.06	7.04
3:00	7.10	7.03	7.02

5:00	8.16	8.30	8.32	- unloaded

Here I swapped the batteries within the boxes to see that the differences were not due to different set of batteries. Random pack was untouched.

Time	RND	Old	New

0:00	8.18	8.32	8.31	- unloaded

0:30 7.16	7.19	7.14
1:00 7.11	7.13	7.09
1:30 7.08	7.10	7.06
2:00 7.05	7.07	7.03
2:30 7.04	7.04	7.01
3:00 7.02	7.01	6.99

5:00 8.11	8.24	8.23	- unloaded

It still seems the new box is slightly inferior to the old box in terms of voltage drop despite bypassed protection circuit, but only marginally. One could separate the USB and main supplies all the way from the circuit board, or just plain remove the USB supply, to get rid of the flimsy part of wiring for some more gains, but it's hard to tell if it's worth it. The random pack does surprisingly well.

Good rides!

JK


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, qqick&dirty..
nothing to add to post no 1 so far

Some vendors proclaim this item as waterproof, others as water resistent:

*Do not use in the water!*
IPX4: 100% dustproof, resistant against splashing water

My test, 8 h under water , added stress: 70,05 mm extra long (and extra thick) Samsungs


The LEDs were still illuminating


A little water ran into, nevertheless a good result compared to many other "waterproof" stuff
  

All in all, in my eyes absolutly recommandable!

My Defys are happy, too!
Perhaps the cable is a bit too long for biking, the wire may be too thin for high current use.
So keep it with 3A max. heads only.

In comparison a "100% Waterproof bottle" from wallbuys:
 
Completely filled with water after 2h
Corrosion on poles and balancing connector

Complete gallery on Abload.de


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Which Wallbuys model are you referring? Link please


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

So, any news on cutting off that USB feature? (standby discharge)


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

Damn, still waiting on parts to arrive. I have a couple of boxes on route (well hopefully they are on route), will see if they are the non USB version or not when/if they arrive. 

Also, I am still waiting for part two of two of my battery order. I got the charger and one pair of batteries, but still need to get the other three pair ordered.

Getting to be annoying.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

> unprotected Pannovo battery case
Temporarily sold out, the site says

Other options there (I know nothing about them)

Rechargeable Water Resistant 18650 Battery Pack for Bicycle Light - Black (2-Parallel / 2-Series) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

RUSTU Waterproof 2500mAh 4 x 18650 Battery Pack for Bicycle Headlamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

8.4V 3600mAh Waterproof Rechargeable Li-ion 18650 Battery Pack - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

*4 x 18650 case arrived*

Well I finally got the two boxes I ordered. Like others, my order was filled with the newer style box that has the USB connection as well. What are folks doing with this. Is is safe to cut it off and seal it off with tape?

I loaded up both cases with the 18650 Keep Power 3400mah batteries. As noted the case has markings to show how the batteries need to be loaded and is rectangular so the lid can only go on as it should. A ran my XT40 and also my Dinotte Dual Quad 1200+ (bonus the battery case works perfectly on my Dinotte lights) with two large fans providing the cooling, so all good there. I periodically checked the battery levels by hitting the button on the case. When it was down to 1 light of 3, I turned off the light and took out the batteries.

Now for the noob question. When I put the batteries back in my Soshine H4 charger I noticed that 2 of the 4 cells were discharged down to 15% - 20% range while the other two where still almost at full charge. Does that seem normal. Based on how the battery case is built, should all 4 batteries be discharging at an equal rate, or first discharge the first pair, then move onto the second pair?

Will try again this evening and take better notice of the battery level off of the XT40 vs the Dinotte.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

rideitall said:


> Now for the noob question. When I put the batteries back in my Soshine H4 charger I noticed that 2 of the 4 cells were discharged down to 15% - 20% range while the other two where still almost at full charge. Does that seem normal. Based on how the battery case is built, should all 4 batteries be discharging at an equal rate, or first discharge the first pair, then move onto the second pair?


If the cells are identical and charged to the same level, they should discharge at equal rate. Keep in mind this box is unable to monitor them properly (essentially, "protection circuit" is a joke), but as long as you're using protected cells - no problem...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Something sounds strange, as if two of the cells are not connected in parallel to the other two. Why don't you try putting two cells on one side of the box and see if the light works. Then move the same two cells to the other side of the case and see if it works again. IF one side is not working than you have a connection issue somewhere.

-Garry


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

I would agree with garrybunk's assessment. The only way that could happen is that one half of the 2 parallel strings of cells is not making connection so the pack is only drawing power from the other half (2 cells only).


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

The cells might also be charged to different level prior to use, be of different state of health...


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback and ideas. Will check out tonight. All cells are new KeepPower 18650 3400mah. I picked up 4 pairs. 1 arrived with charger, three shipped later and had a different sticker on the package indicating production date.

Is the idea is that two batteries are connected together (parallel) to get the 7.4v - 8.4v, then the second set of batteries in series to provide additional capacity 3400mah x 2 = 6800mah.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

rideitall said:


> Is the idea is that two batteries are connected together (parallel) to get the 7.4v - 8.4v, then the second set of batteries in series to provide additional capacity 3400mah x 2 = 6800mah.


Actually the 8.4v is from two batteries in *series* and the 6800mAh is the two series strings being connected together in parallel.


----------



## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

kwarwick said:


> Actually the 8.4v is from two batteries in *series* and the 6800mAh is the two series strings being connected together in parallel.


Well I had a 50/50 chance of getting is right. Makes sense on how you explained it.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

> I loaded up both cases with the 18650 Keep Power 3400mah batteries. 

Did you check the voltage on the batteries before putting them into the battery box?
Or put them all in the external charger to see they were fully charged?
If they weren't all charged to the same level at the start, that would explain what you saw.

I wouldn't expect cells right out of the shipping box to be consistently fully charged.

Just checking


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

hankering said:


> > I loaded up both cases with the 18650 Keep Power 3400mah batteries.
> 
> Did you check the voltage on the batteries before putting them into the battery box?
> Or put them all in the external charger to see they were fully charged?
> ...


All the batteries were fully charged on the SoShine H4 charger. All showed 100% (full) capacity.

It might be a limitation of the H4 charger but it shows only the following information per cell. 1) % full, 2) time on charger, 3) what appears the change in MAH from when it was put on the charger to the current.

So if you had a battery rated at 3400mah that was 50% full when starting to charge, the largest mah number you would see is 50% of 3400 or 1700MAH. I guess you simply have to hope the batteries are capable of the full mah capacity.

I will double check when I get home but don't think the voltage is able to be shown.
Edit did a search and found an online picture. It does appear that is shows the voltage.

Soshine H4 1.5" LCD 4-Slot Universal Charger for Li-ion / LiFePO4 / 26650 / 18650 / AA / AAA - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

rideitall said:


> I loaded up both cases with the 18650 Keep Power 3400mah batteries. As noted the case has markings to show how the batteries need to be loaded and is rectangular so the lid can only go on as it should. A ran my XT40 and also my Dinotte Dual Quad 1200+ (bonus the battery case works perfectly on my Dinotte lights) with two large fans providing the cooling, so all good there. I periodically checked the battery levels by hitting the button on the case. When it was down to 1 light of 3, I turned off the light and took out the batteries.
> 
> Now for the noob question. When I put the batteries back in my Soshine H4 charger I noticed that 2 of the 4 cells were discharged down to 15% - 20% range while the other two where still almost at full charge. Does that seem normal. Based on how the battery case is built, should all 4 batteries be discharging at an equal rate, or first discharge the first pair, then move onto the second pair?


There might be stupid answer but completly possible situation which can happen only with protected cells:
- one of the protection circuits tripped on ie. cut the power off for whatever reason (short circuit, etc....). If you would check voltage prior to inserting you would know it. So the potection was turned on until the cells were put into charger which resets it.

This is a caveat of protected cells if you don't check them before inserting to the box. Very small chance to happen, but it can. This can't happen with unprotected cells, but there are another "features" to be watched ( well, mostly the balancing issues)


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

Ok, just finished a couple of hours of testing. All cells were 100% charged all showing 4.2v. All cells are KeepPower 3400mah protected cells. 

I did try both boxes with running just two cells. It worked just fine for both series. Both boxes worked with just two cells.

After 2.5 hours of running the XT40 light on high, with a fan to keep things cool, I took the batteries out of the case and loaded back into the H4 charger. The charger showed the cells with the following percentage remaining: 12%, 65%, 59%, 25%.

I am just running the second light and battery set to see what comes. I will be more careful in taking out the batteries. I will take them out in pairs that are tied together in series (see I can learn new things). I am curious to see if one set is getting drained more than the other, or one of the batters in each series.

Any ideas on what is happening?


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I wouldn't trust the % reading of the charger. Measure each cells voltage if you can. 

-Garry


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

One of the things that popped into my mind is to check the batch the weak batteries are from. If they are the two that you received in the first batch, that may be your answer. If they're all from the same batch - don't know what else to suggest.


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> I wouldn't trust the % reading of the charger. Measure each cells voltage if you can.
> 
> -Garry


I will have to try and find a multimeter or whatever it is called. I know I had one. Will try to figure it out and measure the batteries in comparison to them coming off the charger.


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## michaelgermany (Jan 29, 2015)

I actually have the same Battery Box and made the same epxerience. I have Panasonic NCR 16850B as batteries. The voltage charged in the Nitecore D4 is the same and i also switched them through and 2 in the same position are always lower than the others. While 2 have 4,1V left, the others are at 3,95V already.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Finally, got my box today. As expected, in its default state it's not really usable - but it's possible to fix almost all problems relatively easy.

My box have PCB different than in first *ledoman* message: S112A1 instead of S112A. Arrangement of electronic components is totally different, but schematic is almost identical. Later I'll take some pictures of my version.

Good news: I was right about the protection IC used. Vimicro VA7022 is indeed pretty standard dual-cell protection chip. Found Chinese datasheet here:
VA7022_DS_1.2_CH-ÖÐÐÇÎ¢Ë«½Úï®µç³Ø±£»¤Ð¾Æ¬_°Ù¶ÈÎÄ¿â









The SolarStorm has used "quick & dirty" trick to fool it, providing fake middle point "connection" signal to pin 4 by using resistive divider (two 100k resistors R9 and R10), and it's quite easy to restore normal functionality. The main problem is a mechanical work required to provide actual wiring; now I have some ideas on how to do it, but haven't decided the best method yet.

According to datasheet, the IC is suitable to whole range of modern cells: overcharge triggering voltage is 4.350V ± 25mV, and overdischarge 2.300V ± 80mV - so, latest low-voltage Panasonics and high-voltage cells from all the other manufacturers theoretically should be useable. Haven't measured actual triggering voltages yet.

The USB part can be easily disabled without heavy modifications. 5V DC/DC converter is controlled by the same button as voltage indicator - so, cutting the PCB trace between U2 and U1 (before grounding 10k resistor) is all what you need in order to do that.

With that mod, standby current is 1.7 mA: pretty acceptable IMHO.

I'll post some pictures when final modification will be done. For now, big thanks to *ledoman* for excellent review, and to *GJHS* for assistance in getting the box!


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Teaser: There may be some more battery boxes coming :smilewinkgrin:


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## rideitall (Dec 15, 2005)

Ran another test tonight. Came back home after a bit of leaving the light running, again with a fan to keep it cool. I believe the light was still on at full brightness. After carefully pulling the batteries out of the box to take not of which series and which position each batter was in, it was all for not. All 4 batteries were at 3.5v and showing with 7% remaining. Charging them now. 

My thoughts are that it might take a few cycles on new batteries for them to break in and reach closer to their potential.


----------



## Fourtrax (Mar 17, 2013)

*Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case f...*

Archie, I should of read your post first while I had the case apart! Was wondering what I should do to remove the USB circuit.

I ended up just replacing the cable with a std Magicshine cable and made it a little longer to reach down into a jersey pocket. Pretty straightforward. Had to enlarge the hole in the PCB and the plastic standoff for the cable seal. Cable is now a real tight fit thru the top. Interesting that they used a c-clip to hold the cable in. Seems to work pretty good.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

rideitall said:


> My thoughts are that it might take a few cycles on new batteries for them to break in and reach closer to their potential.


Nope, Li-Ion does not need that. It could also be one pair haven't had contact.


----------



## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

> overcharge triggering voltage is 4.350V ± 25mV

That's dangerously high for standard li-ions (should be 4.2v)
isn't it??


----------



## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

-Archie- said:


> The USB part can be easily disabled without heavy modifications...With that mod, standby current is 1.7 mA: pretty acceptable IMHO.


I do not agree.
The USB facility is too nice to forget, I wouldn't miss this option.
Shortly before the Gearbest deal I ordered this box regularly from another supplier, it was "stolen" by my daughter for her Android gadget, seems to be better than those ugly power banks..

Back to topic:
As mentioned before the box sucks about 8.5 mA at standby, pretty normal for a stepdown waiting and doing "nothing".

After cutting the buck supplement from supply the current reduces to less than 40 uA.

All you have to do for a happy USB supply is connecting to the switched power, so the batts can't be exhausted.
I was lasy and did mine q&d with cutting knife, fat solder tip and fat cable rest lying around 


Regarding the claimed voltage differences..
- The inner resistance of the cells may differ a little within the first cycles
- The inner resistance depends highly on the drain

But it won't declare such great diffs, I assume a contact prob, too.
Considerable diffs may occur when the connected lamp is only driven at high current after many cycles.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

This is great! And everything works as supposed to? USB power turns on when pressing the button?

Correct me if I missed something...

You cut trace to divide to section A and B. Then connect section A to black wire? New wire could be thinner...say AWG26?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

bhocewar said:


> This is great! And everything works as supposed to? USB power turns on when pressing the button?


In my case (PCB version S112A1), that was true in the default state of the box before modification. As I understand now, version S112A has USB output working permanently, as long as batteries are connected?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

I don't currently have the time to complete box modification, but as it seems (according to pictures uploaded by other people) I'm the only one who received PCB version S112A1 so far, I'd like to share some details about it.

The macro ring light isn't always good thing: it eliminate not only shadows, but engraved IC marking as well... 

















*U4* - Vimicro VA7022 two-cell battery protection circuit. Datasheet:
VA7022_DS_1.2_CH-ÖÐÐÇÎ¢Ë«½Úï®µç³Ø±£»¤Ð¾Æ¬_°Ù¶ÈÎÄ¿â

To restore normal operations, connect battery's common point to pin 4 via 330 Ohm resistor: the PCB already have dedicated soldering point for that, marked "COM".

Remove R9 and R10 resistors to reduce parasitic drain, and optionally put 0.1uF SMD capacitor instead of R9 to suppress possible spikes / false triggering.

*U6* - V1NH is a +3.3V voltage regulator. Provides stable power to U2 controller and constant brightness of indication LEDs regardless from state of discharge.

*U3*, *U5* - Fortune FS8205A dual MOSFETs switching the battery according to the protection IC state. Datasheet:
www.ic-fortune.com%2Fupload%2FDownload%2FFS8205A-DS-12_EN.pdf

*U2* - marking is sanded off. Obviously, voltage indicator's "brain". Activated by K1 button; also provides control signal to the USB power controller.

*U1* - Xlsemi XL1583E1 +5V buck PWM converter. Datasheet:
http://www.xlsemi.com/datasheet/XL1583 datasheet.pdf

In order to disable it permanently, cut the PCB trace to pin 7 (red arrow in the middle of picture), before 10k pull-down resistor.


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## jja (Jan 14, 2004)

Thanks Archie, do you read Chinese to get through that datasheet?

I too have the S112A1 (from KD) but haven't (yet?) desoldered the springs to get things apart. If the USB drain is the big issue, I might not bother since I would be opening the case anyways during storage.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, I can read Chinese quite easily - as long as Google Translate is working...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, thanks for your detailed explanation. However, I would like to give us some sort of "coocking book" what exactly to do to eliminate (or lower it significantly) parasitic drain and other improvements. Possibly ilustrate it with pictures. We are not EE and don't understand circuits, etc..


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ok, I'll provide detailed description (in "cut here, solder that" style) with pictures. Probably, it will be done next week.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

I'm unclear about the parasitic drain issue... do both revisions have this problem? What is the difference between the A and A1 variants? 

Thanks for all the analysis of the circuitry!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, both revisions have remarkable standby current, but it seems that "A" is significantly worse than "A1" in that respect. 

The differences I've noticed are in logic/indicator power (stabilized with dedicated IC in "A1" and unregulated in "A"), and different schematic of USB +5V part: "A" uses some kind of output current (i.e., load) sense with R16+R17 0.3 Ohm resistors, while "A1" implements manual +5V switching linked to the voltage indicator's button.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, have you measured parasitic drain of your version prior modification? It is just to compare with A version.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes; it was approximately 3 mA @ 8.5V power.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

This is much less than with A version, still to much to leave batteries draining (2 month for full 4400mAh pack). If it was 3uA or even 30uA that would be a whole different story.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Don't worry: the label at the bottom claims 10uA, so customers without multimeter should be happy!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> The differences I've noticed are in logic/indicator power (stabilized with dedicated IC in "A1" and unregulated in "A"), and different schematic of USB +5V part: "A" uses some kind of output current (i.e., load) sense with R16+R17 0.3 Ohm resistors, while "A1" implements manual +5V switching linked to the voltage indicator's button.


Yes! Just tested KD A1 and verily, USB connector only becomes live when voltage indicator is engaged.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> Don't worry: the label at the bottom claims 10uA, so customers without multimeter should be happy!


Yes I know. But they are not going to be happy when they will kill their batteries unless the have protected ones.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Yes! Just tested KD A1 and verily, USB connector only becomes live when voltage indicator is engaged.


This is then an easy test which circuit we have. Unless there are new subsequent version A2,... on the wild. I have few cases from different sources. For the review purposes I've teared apart only one. Will try to identify the others.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, it works. I mean I've checked out and first two cases I've got (GB and KD) I've inspected in review are version A. All others are v. A1 based on your description. Good to know that now.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Great, now it's easy to determine revision of PCB without disassembling or measurements.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, at least until we discover the third one (when or if exists). AFAIK my review found the path to the manufacturer. A1 revision might be designed after our complaints. Still they have plenty room to make it better.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

IMHO, the best option for the manufacturer would be, to restore production of previous model with no electronics inside...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, for the most of people protection circuit is good to have. It adds somewhat to the security. There is an option to use protected cells, but it adds to the resistance and voltage drop. Still, good for ordinary users but not for us being to picky.

The old model have had poor quality and high resistance springs. Improving that and better cabling would make it good for us. For the rest I would add protection circuit similar to the welded packs, at least.


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

I received my mine about a week ago and just used it the other night. I checked the cells after and as someone else had experienced, I had 2 cells nearly full and 2 cells discharged to 3.8v.

After verification, it appears I have a defective unit. I can leave only 2 cells in and I am able to put the cover back on in any direction. If I put the cell on the other side of the pack, I get no voltage. I tested the resistance between the 2 contact point at the bottom and I have no continuity on that side.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Bad soldering, probably...


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Short of destroying the case, I dont see a good way to fix that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

@adagioca, can you make a picture of that defective side?


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Nothing really is standing out as the cause. I'll take that picture and see if you can spot something..


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Had to dig to get my macro lens out.

Here you go


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hmm, no visible sign of defect. As I understand you have checked conductivity with DMM and you got none.


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

That's correct. I tested the resistance on that side with DMM and getting no continuity. Other side tested fine.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hmm, funny. Try to pry the board out. Alternatively I would lay down a tiny sheet of copper on the bottom to make the contact.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

First of these Solarstorm cases I bought -- from Gearbest about 3 weeks ago -- has the USB powered all the time, regardless of whether the button is pressed to show the "power level" three blue LEDs.

Waiting on a second one that's in the mail now.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

adagioca said:


> Had to dig to get my macro lens out.
> 
> Here you go


Conductive layer seems to be intact. Should be either not soldered properly contact(s), or...

Have you tried to clean the contacts? The PCB is glued to the case - so, if too much glue was applied, maybe it's left on the contact's surface. Superglue is normally transparent, and it's not always easily to see it. Try scrubbing the contacts using e.g. flat screwdriver: maybe it helps...


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

-Archie- said:


> View attachment 961424


Ok..so there is a second version..maybe some more..https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/smilies/confused.png
Perhaps they noticed their design fault and thia was the reason for GBs special "gift" 
Anyway..where did you get it?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

It was offered as free gift with Yinding preorders. I had some troubles getting ordered items from GB, but finally they've sent both items (in separate parcels), so I've got them later than expected. As design of PCB was updated meanwhile, the delay turned out to be a good thing!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just checked my two cases ordered prior to the Yinding deal and mine must be the old version because the USB is active regardless of the battery indicator switch  .

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Update about real triggering voltages of protection used in PCB version S112A1 (after fixing it to normal operation):

Overdischarge limit is 2.32 V for negative half, and 2.33 V for positive.
Overcharge limit is 4.35 V for negative half, and 4.36 V for positive.

There's one interesting property of Vimicro VA7022 chip, quite useful for real-life use of SolarStorm box: auto-resume after triggering. :thumbsup:

Protection PCBs typically used in the batteries are of "latching" type, and require brief connection of charger to put them back in operation. If used with removable cels, it means that you're unable to replace them in the field, as protection won't allow the load to be powered after cell's swapping. With SolarStorm box, it's not the case: the PCB will be activated immediately after putting fresh cells in the box.

The same logic is used for overcharge protection, too. But here it's merely bad thing, as it in fact allow the cells to be overcharged if connected to the faulty charger for prolonged time. On the other hand, using good quality charger (or external multi-bay one) reduce that risk significantly.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

> mine must be the old version because the USB is active regardless

The one I got so far also is like that. 
Is this fixable, or will the seller replace it, or is it "live with it and keep smiling ...?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't think it's a faulty product needing replaced, just that the product has been revised and made better. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> Update about real triggering voltages of protection used in PCB version S112A1 (after fixing it to normal operation):
> 
> Overdischarge limit is 2.32 V for negative half, and 2.33 V for positive.
> Overcharge limit is 4.35 V for negative half, and 4.36 V for positive.


Archie I don't understand that "negative and positive half". Can you explain?

Are you going to make short instructions with pictures how to significantly lower parasitic drain? I know you have only A1 version, but can you somehow include the old circuit too? You can use pictures from the beginning of this thread.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Archie I don't understand that "negative and positive half". Can you explain?


Sure. To make required 8.4V voltage using 4.2V cells, you'll have to connect them in series. In example below, 1.5V cells connected to make 3V voltage are shown, but principle is the same:








So, the resulting battery contains two parts (or halves): one connected to the negative "-" output terminal, and second connected to the positive "+" one.

If capacity of particular cell isn't sufficient for given application, several cells could be connected in parallel to make "big capacity cell", then those "big cells" (actually, groups of cells) are connected in series just like in example above - but from electrical point of view the scheme will be still the same: two parts.



> Are you going to make short instructions with pictures how to significantly lower parasitic drain? I know you have only A1 version, but can you somehow include the old circuit too? You can use pictures from the beginning of this thread.


Well, it's a bit difficult to identify actual PCB trace to be cut, but most simple way is, to unsolder pin#7 of U1 chip.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

Got my second box -- and on it the USB port is switched by the same button that controls the three little blue LEDs. Is there much practical difference between the two versions?

I see the suggestion above by bianchifan at
Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc - Page 4- Mtbr.com
that the USB is worth keeping with one picture about how to fix (reduce) the parasitic drain, some rewiring, but I"m not sure I understand exactly what to do there. Does that effectively make the A into the A1 by putting the USB port under control of the switch?

Is there any practical reason to treat them differently, by 
-- reducing that parasitic drain on the A version by rewiring as above, or 
-- by cutting that pin on a chip for both A and A1 version?

Can someone sum up?

Or just remember to take the batteries out of the box, regardless, any time either one is not going to be used real soon?


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

hankering said:


> ..I see the suggestion above by bianchifan at..
> Does that effectively make the A into the A1 by putting the USB port under control of the switch?


No!
U1 is always working, as long as DC+ is active..

You wanna make USB Voltage switchable too?

So there is a little more to do 
First U1 must be changed for switching, Archie told us Pin #7, it must desoldered and isolated from the PCB.
Next the supply voltage for U2 must be cut from U+ (USB Output) upside C6 and connected to a separate supply, perhaps one of those tiny switch regulators.
At last Pin 7 of U1 must be connected to a switched output pin from U2, there are three. I think the one for the lowest Power LED should work, but I don't know which, I didn't check for now.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

> bianchifan
Thanks, that helps.

I'm not sure whether it's worth making any change in my first "A" version battery box.

Seems simpler to remember to take the batteries out each time the box might sit on the shelf for a week, for both the "A" and the "A1" versions.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, this weekend I've finished the modding of box.

Most difficult was proper connection of cells and providing the contact from middle point to the protection circuit. Doing that in non-destructive way seems impossible, so I've ended up with this method: Bottom wall is very carefully drilled in four points at the centres of cells, to the depth when contact PCBs become visible. Then, using appropriate tool with two arms (I've used wristwatch opener), pressure is applied through the holes to the PCB until it separates from the case. Repeat for second one. In each PCB small hole for wire is drilled for the contact wire near "-" contact.









For middle point, contact washer of appropriate diameter is used: it glued to the threaded hole of the case, thin wire soldered to it affixed to the wall with Kapton tape:









For that wire, one more hole is drilled in the bottom of the box. Also, 5mm hole drilled at the center of box, to provide cavity for wires junction. Contact PCBs with added wires glued back to the inside of bottom wall:









All three wires are soldered together, connected tips inserted in the hole:









New bottom wall is made using thin plastic (I've used outer shell of discarded notebook's battery), and affixed to the box with hot glue (don't know proper English name for that thing: it looks like transparent rods, applied by electric "handgun" melting them):









On the main PCB, additional separate spring is used to make contact with modified box: I've used spring from broken torch. Hole in the box cover was too small, so I've increased it's diameter to accommodate that spring. For soldering it, small hole was drilled and PCB trace on opposite side cut in two places (connection restored by added wire). Also, 330 Ohm resistor to VA7022 pin #4 input in heatshrink tube placed on this side:









Middle spring soldered (insulating sheet of plastic added to avoid touching of components):









Original Y-cable with USB output discarded, and replaced with MagicShine one. Assembled cover (note fifth spring around the screw):









To avoid scratching of bike frame, I've added layer of soft rubber to one side of box. Final look:









Checked it; everything works fine. Now I can safely use my unprotected cells.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, was this mod in addition to previous ones reported for A1 circuit?

If I understands correctly you have connected middle spring over 330Ohm resistor to the chip VA7022 pin #4. That way "middle voltage" is checked as with any other tipical protection circuit, right?

Was it very hard to push bottom connectors out? They are probably glued with two side sticky tape or what?

Nice job, though. You really should write step by step "coocking recepie" how to do it all for both versions.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Archie, was this mod in addition to previous ones reported for A1 circuit?


They're totally unrelated: first was to get rid of USB part (and parasitic drain assosiated with it), and this one - to restore non-working protection.



> If I understands correctly you have connected middle spring over 330Ohm resistor to the chip VA7022 pin #4. That way "middle voltage" is checked as with any other tipical protection circuit, right?


Yes. If exactly - not to check "middle voltage", but to check each cell's voltage, as it intended to be. Non-operational protection is IMHO main problem of that box, if user wants to put unprotected cells into.



> Was it very hard to push bottom connectors out? They are probably glued with two side sticky tape or what?


Unfortunately, they're glued with superglue: significant force (and extreme care) is required to pry them out.



> Nice job, though. You really should write step by step "coocking recepie" how to do it all for both versions.


Thanks! In fact, I think all the steps are described now: if you have some particular question, I'll be glad to answer it. As for versions, I don't have the first revision - but modification should be quite similar.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Very nice posting Archie! Thanks! And yes "hot glue" is the correct term and we simply call the "gun" a "hot glue gun". In fact, I was just using one last night. 

So with this "protection fix" - does this change the voltage level of protection? I believe the low voltage protection was too low to begin with.

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks!

No, triggering voltages aren't changed after fix. A bit low indeed, but it's still "on the safe side" IMHO. Some higher value (e.g., 2.45V) would be better of course.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

Has anyone calibrated the three little blue LEDs by measuring your battery voltages?

I just checked my first ("A") box cells when the box dropped to showing 2 illuminated LEDs
(result: four cells at 3.59 and one at 3.6 -- close enough)

That's about as low as I like to discharge li-ions on any regular basis.
I don't really want to drain them any lower than that.

(I had originally hoped to use these IMR cells regularly in the box, but they are unprotected and described as "2.7V minimum discharge voltage" so the box's protection wouldn't. Drat.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You probably didn't read original post in this thread, did you?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

hankering said:


> (result: four cells at 3.59 and one at 3.6 -- close enough)
> 
> That's about as low as I like to discharge li-ions on any regular basis.
> I don't really want to drain them any lower than that.


But why? 3.6 is an nominal voltage for majority of cells, registered at about the middle of discharge cycle...


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

>> first post
Yep, read it when it came out. Reread it just now

> but why?
I got old and conservative, I guess, don't know how that crept up on me.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
" depth of discharge (DoD) determine the cycle count. The shorter the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses."

Less conservatively, my favorite source mtnelectronics.com says
"all lithium and IMR cells, should not be discharged below 2.5 volts" one place, and for the particular cells I was using, says "2.7V minimum discharge voltage"

So, good enough.


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

@archie
Too much hassle imho.
Normally we we have no high drain, good cells shouldn't drift apart so much.
If they will be loaded individually sometimes all should be on the safe side.

@hankering
3.6 V isn't conservative, it maybe contra productive in some cases..

Discharging under 2.3 V will damage most cells, 2.5 V should be the emergency exit.
So 2.4 or something like that as offered from most chinese PSMs is too low indeed.
2.7 V should be better, I know
Until now I haven't found a budget PCB/PCM with such offer.. (

For best lifespan a LI call can be discharged until the curve brakes down, begins to descent abruptly. This is depending on the sucked drain, the higher the drain the lower that point.
From this point of view 3.6 V may be ok for low current, i.e. 200 mA.
If you 're sucking i.e. 5 A 3.6 V may be reached within a few seconds, the optimal point lies between 3.0 V and 2.8 V depending on the cell.

Imho you can't brake this over your knee, you should have a closer look to the used cells and the wished discharging currents.

It's always a good idea, to charge LI cells before the protective circuits do their work


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

In my experience a full discharge/charge cycle over time (a year or two) gives some of the capacity back. And you can trigger the PCB protection doing the discharge.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Just bought one of these in the UK, and wanting to find a laptop battery to teardown for the cells. Are there any "third party" laptop battery makers people would recommend?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

What's the point buying and disassembling battery instead of ready to use separate cells?


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Four new Samsung 2600's are under $16 at FastTech. The Price/Performance ratio on those probably beat recycled cells.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

But if we're talking about recycled cells from discarded pack acquired for free, price/performance ratio is hard to beat...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> View attachment 963023


The 8205A chip is the one that triggers the cut-off voltage: http://www.szmeilai.com/admin/pdf/ML8205A.pdf This particular chip melts in the KD case that comes with a KD880 clone or you can buy separately. My guess this happens due to the charging the pack with a cheap charger included.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> My guess this happens due to the charging the pack with a cheap charger included.


Very unlikely. All the dead 8205 I've seen so far, were destroyed by short circuit or heavy current overload (connecting two powerful lights via Y-cable or the like). Are you sure in your case it's charge-control one, not discharge? If indeed so, maybe just defective transistor was installed...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The packs were not mine. They got an issue somewhere between the charging and powering one light - KD880 clone or Skyray S6 which have equal nominal current draw - 2A. 8205 should dissipate max 1.5W heat and handle 6A in the spec. It is just my guess what happened. The KD880 light blew the current sense resistor and was pushing just a small current to the leds. After I fixed the resistor I notice the pack output is 7V w/o any load but cells were fresh charged to ~4.16V. Pointing to the melted 8205.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Pointing to the melted 8205.


Which one?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The one with KD880 clone had melted 8205 and the pack with S6 had an exploded 8205.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

There's two 8250 chips on board: charge control and discharge control: perhaps, knowing which one is melted, may help narrow down the reason of failure. OTOH, both of them are involved in flow of current, so shortage will blow any of them...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

OK, I see now, the KD pack comes with single 8205. I was talking about the pack used with KD880 clone not the KD New SS box. My point was to explain the 8205 is used for cut-off in the new SS box if we want to mod the cut-off level.

KD pack I'm thinking about:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> OK, I see now, the KD pack comes with single 8205. I was talking about the pack used with KD880 clone not the KD New SS box.


And I was pretty sure we're on topic, hence the confusion! 



> My point was to explain the 8205 is used for cut-off in the new SS box if we want to mod the cut-off level.


Here I don't understand you. It's a switch with just two states: on & off. The levels of triggering are defined not by 8205 themselves, but by IC that controls them...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey guys probably answered but brain hurts right now (trying to sort this case and also lights)

Is protection circuit good enough if going to primarily charge batteries separately on proper charger (with unprotected cells)?

And trying to find how to eliminate USB completely. Connector wire obviously easy enough (new connector) but how do u disable it on PCB without effecting rest of system?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Is protection circuit good enough if going to primarily charge batteries separately on proper charger (with unprotected cells)?


No.



> And trying to find how to eliminate USB completely. Connector wire obviously easy enough (new connector) but how do u disable it on PCB without effecting rest of system?


Seven pages of this tread is too much to read?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nah just trying to read an absorb/ apply this and all the stuff with led options, plus other stuff I have going on. 7 pages of skim read was all I got so far. I'll have to read more closely.

Guess now to decide either do the mod for protection or just yank the board out and use as basic case with protected cells.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK Archie, read over this a couple times now, now I understand the "rolled eyes" lol. I associated first mod section with only USB not beginnings of protection mod.

SO let me see if I got this straight (sorry been a long time since ive tried to go in depth into electronics)

Mod lower case contacts is simple (thnx for the good pics and simple to do)

spring to 330ohm resistor, got that, resistor soldered to "com" as thats the already dedicated point for this purpose. You drilled hole through board to this point to make this connection.

Trace cuts (and restored connection) done to give spring a solder point if i got that correctly. cut trace on either side of trace section to be used, jumper wire to reconnect trace on either side (pic of second cut is blocked by wire/resistor I assume).

ANd eliminating USB was that simple trace cut done in first post of the mod (little trace and cut marked by red arrow).

SOrry to go back through what you already did, but dont wanna trash these cases so making sure I have steps correct BEFORE doing mod (well before sourcing resistor and lead wire coming from box bottom, no electronics supplies near me anymore).

Thnx


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*tigris99*, yes: everything is absolutely correct. Good luck!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So tore apart my china pack from my $25 thing I got off amazon. I thought battery had crapped out (runtime went to total crap when running on high). Found one of the leads had come loose from a cell so I was running at 2 cell capacity. Put the loose cells in one of my cases, indicator reads full lol. I know that's not the case across all cells not sure if led indicators are a function of the protection circuit, in which case its a visual representation of how much the protection DOESNT work lol. Did notice that light indicator on its button doesn't go red in few seconds now, so seems primary is on the cells that were lost from the lead coming loose in the pack. Those are probably fully charged ot close to it.





I do wonder, the PCB in that china pack, 2 upper and a lower lead, was that a protection circuit for overcharge??? Or both? I'm used to lipo packs where protection was built into balance charger (which im working on trying to use my bc6 to charge 4 cells individually using the balance system).



I am going to get a 3rd one (maybe 4th) and leave USB active for battery back up for cell phones. Family outings, camping etc. Be alot more capacity than the "sticks" with one cell you can buy.



Complaint there, USB adapter is REAL SHALLOW, so 0 water protection for any USB cords I have (and nothing protecting that connector when un-used)


Quick update: Holy crap this thing charges my phone faster than my best well charger. I may get one of these to keep in my backpack for work lol. Way better than my gas station USB cube wall charger thing.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

I had an interesting experience after loading my new battery box with unprotected cells. I noticed a strange odor shortly after tightening the top.I unplugged the xt40, and quickly opened the top. Only thing I noticed was a discolored and very hot spring. Oddly the batteries were all cool to the touch, and everything appears to be a ok. I have no idea if it was the battery that somehow shorted with the spring or something went wrong with the circuitry. I'm going to play it safe with this battery box, its going on my handlebars and not my hydration pack 


PS: I cleaned up the tabs on the cells after the incident. Though nothing was really protruding to begin with.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Are u 100% sure you put all the cells in the correct way. Gotta be CAREFUL cause these cells can go critical quickly lol.

Archie, stuff I need (resistors, solder tip, new iron stand) will be here Wednesday. Tells u how long since Ive done this stuff, lost all but iron itself and one dual gator clip stand, lol. My iron holder got smashed lol.

Being springs I have, my version is being changed a bit, will eliminate need to mess with traces, spring will mount to case lid with resistor wire going to contact point. Well that's the plan anyway.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Sure your implementation may vary: as long as necessary connections are provided, particular method doesn't matter.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

I had it happen twice already, springs overheat immediately after putting lid on, batteries are always cold. I'm thinking it has to do with the orientation of the lid. The lid is square and not rectangular. The version I have has 3 rounded corners, and 1 angled corner on the lid, that sits best with one corner of the box. I used a sharpie to mark the correct side of the box, fingers crossed no fireworks until July.

@tiger99 I checked cell orientation before and after the incidents, they were correct in both instances. I will post an update if this doesn't resolve my problem. 

@archie thanks for the detailed mods. Hopefully, solarstorm makes an updated model eventually.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh ya make sure lid is on the right way (provided u haven't shorted anything by now). Lid on goes on ONE WAY. The flat corner has a matching spot in out cause that it fits with.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

jokaankit said:


> I had it happen twice already, springs overheat immediately after putting lid on, batteries are always cold. I'm thinking it has to do with the orientation of the lid. The lid is square and not rectangular. The version I have has 3 rounded corners, and 1 angled corner on the lid, that sits best with one corner of the box. I used a sharpie to mark the correct side of the box, fingers crossed no fireworks until July.


Would you mind taking the pictures of your battery case? All I've got so far were rectangular, never seen square one. Maybe you have some new version.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, that's really interesting! Square one was previous version with no electronics, while current one allow the lid to be put in two ways - and both of them are correct due to the cell's arrangement... Is there any "third" version now?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Where were these "square" battery holders purchased? Both GearBest and Kaidomain show the rectangular, two-way models. Does the square one say SolarStorm on the bottom or some other brand?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Meanwhile, I've got strange feeling that one more user is talking about TrustFire aluminium box here...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I mentioned the TF alu box in connection with 8205 



-Archie- said:


> Meanwhile, I've got strange feeling that one more user is talking about TrustFire aluminium box here...


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

GB SS case here. The pics of the "lid" look square to me, like mine. The led works when connected the wrong way, but ad a short happen a couple times like that. I'm using ICR unprotected cells so I stop once I hit 1-2 LED's on the voltage display.

Mines has "electronics", it's not the pannovo case.
So in your boxes do you have 3 round corners and 1 angled corner? If it can be inserted in 2 orientations, is there a version with 2 angled edges and 2 round edges?

Sorry for confusion and spelling errors, just woke up. If there is a chance this is a different version I will surely post images of the box. Worst case scenario lesson learned a square is a special rectangle


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

At least in my case, all the corners are identical (rounded); the shape of lid is rectangular but not square - so it could be inserted in two possible orientations with 180° difference. As long as the cells are placed in accordance with polarity stickers on inner surface of box, both variants are valid, as minus will be connected to minus and plus to plus, regardless of lid position.

As I can see by other people's pictures, all the SS boxes mentioned here so far, are like mine.

In other words, go ahead and post the images of yours!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Archie there's a new version then, mine is same, square-ish with one flattened corner. Guess lid may be able to fit on all 4 ways but atm only done 2. And fit is subjective, lid goes on at an angle if that flattened corner isn't lined up


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Quite interesting. *tigris99, jokaankit*: please share close-up pictures of your boxes!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

In detail if possible and circuit version like this one:









Also the URL of source you bought from would be nice.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'll get pics in a bit, but got my 2 from GB. Mine also is missing the plastic that holds the silcone button/led covers. My circuitry looks identical to what u guys have though.



This is mildly aggitating cause more things I read, the original batches of parts, lights, are being reviewed and look good, by the time the rest of us buy them they've cut corners all over the place to make stuff cheaper instead of just charging a tad more. I'd rather have paid another $0.50 a battery box to have the plastic support for the silcone cover.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

Didn't even notice that plastic holder in your post. My solder tip isn't working so I can't post pics of the hidden electronics sorry. If a picture similar to ledomans is good I could do that.

Nothing to look forward to with this model  The protection isn't helpful, and the voltage indicator has been inconsistent, IMO. I had 2 cells that I discharged to single blinking led under load, measured cells (no load) to 2.45V each. Cant comment on balancing improvements on the new battery box as, my DMM is out of commission, using an analog one at the moment. 

Only placed the lid wrong twice and its caused misshaped springs and odd humming when discharging (The yinding hums just like the box lol). No sounds when powering xt40 on high, or during charging or during usb output. SO BE CAREFUL TO PLACE LID IN CORRECT ORIENTATION with battery boxes purchased after Chineese New Year (February). (only one right way to insert cells) it is not possible to close lid in 2 of the 4 orientaions.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

https://app.box.com/s/nu4ntnu3xqatmpultqa4y3ibqdxyxjz2

Hope the link works. tigris can you please check if yours makes any noise when powering lights. You never powered the box with the lid in the other direction?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dude I dunno wth with ur link but it freaked my phone out. Wants to download pics. Upload to Photobucket or flickster lol. Give u straight img code to paste on here.

Anyway no mine makes no noise or anything. Ive used it to test on light I have and for giggles I charged my phone on it. Works great, no noise nothing.

Think u shorted urs out which I was afraid of by crossing polarity the wrong way.

Oh and actually paying attention to mine, its rectangle, so cant cross circuit mine but set to only go in one way TECHNICALLY.



going to get my cells and retest both just to make sure since I dont know if Ive messed with both or only one.

Update: both packs cases for me are fine, no noises or anything.


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## bianchifan (Feb 13, 2010)

MK96 said:


> The 8205A chip is the one that triggers the cut-off voltage: ...This particular chip melts..


Melting..nice. Until now I've always seen those transforming into stinky smoke when getting too hot...please don't breathe 

BTW, the 8205A is the switch, not the trigger. The trigger is unknown to me, Icannot identify. Magicshine for ex. used Seiko chips with 2.3V cutoff voltage.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ok looking at his pics...looks like our box...

how in the hell did you manage to put the lid on the wrong way, guessing being springs are long you noticed heat before actually pushing lid down to thread, not looking at lid orientation???? Looking at those springs, your box is SMOKED. with Li-Ion and Li-po cells you have to exercise EXTREME caution and SERIOUS ATTENTION TO DETAIL. luckily all you did was fry box and not smoke your cells. Sorry but only option now is strip electrics so its standard unprotected/no usb case and use protected cells in it or buy a new one.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I've seen melted, exploded, burned ... 8205 



bianchifan said:


> Melting..nice. Until now I've always seen those transforming into stinky smoke when getting too hot...please don't breathe
> 
> BTW, the 8205A is the switch, not the trigger. The trigger is unknown to me, Icannot identify. Magicshine for ex. used Seiko chips with 2.3V cutoff voltage.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

thanks, I'll just order a new battery pack. I have no idea how to disconnect electronics and use it as a plain box with protected cells. Lol tigris definitely didn't use the box in the 2 other orientations on account of the box being rectangular


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey guys just realized there's 2 magic shine cable styles. The normal and the one for the mj880, is there any different other than connector style??? Gotta get a couple ordered. Gonna start my mod on these tonight after work.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight here we go.

First damn chinese like their super glue!!! Getting contacts out of bottom NOT HAPPENING.

But gave up on that moved to setting center wire. Was able to drill center out and use center cavity to house 330 resistor. Took some finess to get that angled hole below the pressed in nut for the lid. But did it:





Then being I exposed the copper when drilling, decided to throw my multi-meter on it.... well hell opened the holes up a bit more, exposed a little more copper and:



Insulation is in the way :-( gotta go find my thin non insulated stuff, hiding somewhere saw it other day.

Now that i have a plan of attack for this part, second one will go quick, already ran checks with meter, all good across the board. EXERCISE CAUTION if you try to solder my way, the discs for batter contacts inside are soldered to the boards!!! (Yes i had one start to move, fixed asap but gotta be quick with tinning/attaching wire)


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yay, a happy story with your box :eekster:. Mine is on a to-do list.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok first case finally done. Actually fairly easy. Pack hooked to single emitter cree light on high for testing atm.

Recap:
drill, connect 2 lower boards to 330ohm resistor to contact on case at mount screw hole.

Spring with wire soldered to it hit glued to hole in lid, wire soldered to "com"

R9 and 10 resistors removed.

USB trace cut as well.

USB no longer works, no shorts in case, cheap cells from 4 cell pack (came with cheap light pack is currently hooked to) installed. Assuming unprotected cells since there was a board in the pack I tore these out of..

Update, indicator is working, dropped to 2 lights on case.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*jokaankit, tigris99*: now I see what you mean by that "angled" corner of the box. Mine is exactly the same: I've seen that slightly flattened corner as well - but the difference is so minor that I've considered it a molding imperfection or the like.

In any case, it doesn't serve as a "key" to prevent closure of the lid wrong way, as the lid does fit just fine in both orientations possible. And both of them are correct from electric connections POW: in fact, my box is currently assembled in that "wrong" position.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Noticed that on Kaidomain they offer the SolarStorm in two configurations, one says 4 x 18650 http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023797 the other 2 x 18650/4 x 18650 http://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S023038

They look and cost exactly the same, could there be any difference between their individual circuit boards, and would that explain the ineffective corner key? Am guessing though that the two skus are in fact identical, as I ordered their 4 x model and it works with either one or two pairs of cells, with the lid at either orientation. Perhaps the original design called for different internal workings to support charging of either one or two pairs but then the manufacturer cheaped out and simply short changed the whole kit? Most likely Kaidomain was just trying to update their first listing and failed to delete it after having uploaded the corrected version.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The versions we have work with 2 or 4 cells and can charge that way. There is a new and old version. I'm guessing the listed as 4x is the old version.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

My KD 4 x has the latest PCB, its the one where USB is activated through the same button as the charge indicator LEDs. That's why I think the two versions listed on Kaidomain are actually the same, or they are just shipping the same one regardles of sku because that is all they stock anymore. GearBest was certainly shipping an older version before which apparently they've recently replaced with the same type I got from KD. So either of the two companies' current SolarStorm cases can operate on or charge one or two pairs of cells at a time, they just have those problems with balancing and protection that you and -Archie-addressed with your mods.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well the packs dont balance regardless, just overcharge/over discharge protection that we corrected so it senses all cells not just each pair. Keeps one cell alone from going too far either direction when other cells r still well within range. I thought about adapting in a balance charge connector but its more work than I want to go through, easier to make a base for my balance charger. I use my balance charger to charge normal set up too as it wont allow overcharging so I have double protection with these cases. No idea how case effects charge of cells (not quite fully charged).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight Archie, need your help here:

First case works FINE. Just checked voltage on the cells in second case, 3.98, 3.98, 3.99, 3.99.

Plug my kd2 in, first case no issues. Second case led indicator immediately drops to flashing after a few seconds on high. Gonna switch cells across cases see if that makes a difference.

What could be causing this, mod done same way between both except second I took the cable/connector from KD2 stock pack and installed in case???

Swapping cells same response form both cases, first one drops to 2 lights, second goes straight to flashing 1 led in a few seconds. BUT light itself shows no indication (button) not does light cut out or anything. Just making sure ther eis no issues and protection will work as it needs to.

BTW pics from second case mod:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

That's strange. Have you checked actual output voltage with DMM under load? Do I understand correctly that indicator LEDs were working correctly before modification?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not yet, that check with my dmm is next. But its both set of cells doing the same thing. And both packs seemingly worked fine prior to mod. I actually used case 2 to charge my phone prior to modding it while I was doing some yard work.



I'm going to take apart make sure I didn't miss anything or a piece of solder where it doesn't belong.



One thing I did think about is new connector wire is much larger gauge, so not wondering if pull higher current is throwing indicator off.



All else fails ill use my old cells and let light run till protection kicks in or cells die. Test protection under actual loads.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yeah, the first thing is, to identify whether it's actual voltage drop or indication issue. If the voltage is low indeed, I'd suspect some bad contacts or soldering somewhere. Don't think wire gauge is playing significant role here, giving its length and amperage...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's one thing I didn't try, switch lower cases, may be possible I released some contact on pucks in case on case 2 just dont know it. Luckily my iron fits down inside. So ill check voltage drop first before much else, compare across the 2. Got spare connectors so ill check pack outputs first. 

One thing that did hit me, was both sets of cells though not ran individually yet, were fully charged at time of testing, and case 1 immediately drops one led on the indicator once light hit med or high for a few secs.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Archie

Did a test lead adapter using connectors, spots to attach dmm. Lower drop is a dip to 7.57v when going from med to high returns to 7.6. Other case (1st one) I can watch dips in mid 6v range and hold right about 7 less only drop to 2 lit.


Oh also when I first began test case 2 was functioning same as case 1. Wasn't till swapping cases to repeat test that case 2 acted up again. Resoldered all things I unsoldered, checked and rechecked making sure entire mod was done correctly nothing on the board outta wack. Well as far as I know how to test anyway.

Am I correct in assuming led indicator and protection both run on voltage range?

Update:

Being as could find nothing wrong went with a use test. Protection engaged and killed power to light. Charger had rest voltage about 6.5v. So guessing based on voltage drop tests it triggers a little above safe minimum (cells pending). And this is second case, one with indicator issue. But indicator issue didn't arise with older single emitter I was using for test. Something with draw from kd2 is freaking the indicator out while light still stays lit.

So guess programming or something else has indicator side messed up. But protection works. And protection was all I cared lol. But I do plan to order a couple more cases, one of which was to be heavily modded possibly (protection wouldnt matter, would have protected cells) for commuter, so this case may in the end be IT.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Am I correct in assuming led indicator and protection both run on voltage range?


Yes. The only difference is, protection is monitoring each cell's voltage, while indication monitors combined (total) one.

Maybe indicator chip was damaged by ESD during modification work, or something like that?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya was wondering if maybe since one spring is right next to the chip that I accidently heated or shorted the chip. Oh well for now, primary concern is covered. Led indicator is off regardless as just powering a light in shouldn't drop. 

And light head led warning at the button seems to go red/blinky well before pack protection kicks in. So that helps for "power level" too.

Thnx for the help Archie


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99,
In doing your case mod, did you have to cut a trace on the circuit board? I'm not seeing one cut. I'm going to have to pickup some 330ohm resistors.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Depends on if your wanting USB or not. The pic was before I cut it, page 5 or 6 has archies cut to be made to kill the USB.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, I went back and found Archies. Probably easier to cut it rather than re-wire it to work "properly". I'm trying to cut & paste posts into a Word document as a guide for doing this rather than weeding through numerous posts. 

Any certain wattage for that 330 ohm resistor? Which wattage is "safe" to rely on? 1/4 watt ok? 1/2 watt? 

Thanks,
Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey Archie:





Question, if I leave that trace we cut intact everything with the USB will still work then, the resistors we pulled dont affect that do they?





I ask because going to get a couple more cases next month, one of which is going to be for my commuter. So need the light and need the USB to use as powerbank at work (charge my phone, they frown on charger cords on benchs) so I can just charge my phone without taking it out or wires out of my little tool/glove case.



@ Gary, sorry missed ur question, id think 1/4 watt is plenty, I got half watt just cause I didn't care. This has almost nothing for current coming through. Nothing being pulled its simply a "sensor wire". Same as hooking a dmm up to a battery to read voltage. Not current drain just a read out of what state the battery is in.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Hey Archie:
> Question, if I leave that trace we cut intact everything with the USB will still work then, the resistors we pulled dont affect that do they?


Absolutely. USB and protection are totally independent circuits: they just share common board.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks tigris. I already bought and received the 1/2 watt ones. Probably be a week or so before I do the mod.

Wait-removal of resistors? For the protection mod? I don't recall a need to remove resistors (I'd have to read back though). 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya r9 and r10. Removes the parasitic drain of the "fake" 3rd contact for the PCB. If I understand Archie correctly anyway.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Sure.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Ya r9 and r10. Removes the parasitic drain of the "fake" 3rd contact for the PCB. If I understand Archie correctly anyway.


So removing those resistors removes (or lessens) parasitic drain, but the USB output will still work?

Thanks,
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya USB dependant on that trace. Resistors r only for protection circuit. Well r9 and r10 only


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks!

-Garry


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi, thank you for your great Pictures and explanations!

Just to get it right: for just lowering the parasitic drain on the *A1* pcb

- I have to remove R9 and R10 (nothing more?)
- all Features and the other behaviour of the box remains as original?

how low is the parasitic drain after removing only the 2 resistors(r9&r10)??

Thanks for making it clear :thumbsup:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Whitedog1 said:


> Just to get it right: for just lowering the parasitic drain on the *A1* pcb
> 
> - I have to remove R9 and R10 (nothing more?)
> - all Features and the other behaviour of the box remains as original?


No. If you'll just remove the resistors but not provide wiring from middle point of battery to the protection IC input, it will shut down the output thinking that cell's voltage is zero.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ohhhhhh ok - thanks!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What Archie said, dont remove all those resistors unless doing the case mod too.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Archie, FOUND MY ISSUE, ya one case is a bit off and goes 1 led too soon, but now neither drop to 2 or 1 for that matter as soon as I hit high, and thats after modding my kd2 to push 3.28 amps to the emitters. 3 lights no problem then work down.

issue was my cells, forgot my timer safety on my charger....turned it off, ran balance balance for a bit then stuck them in their cases, let them go for like 3 hrs, and all good. gonna run long balance passes soonish once i get my second smt holder so I can charge 4 at a time balanced instead of 2.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

It's always cool to find the reason of problem!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

So I worked on modding one of my battery boxes this weekend. UGH! It was awful! I spent about 4 hours getting it done. The bottom part of the box was actually pretty easy. Followed tigris99's lead. Drilling that hole at an angle below the threaded insert was a bit tough. For the top contact I used a ring terminal which I removed insulation from and cut shorter (i.e. cut off the part where you normally crimp a wire inside, leaving just a "tab" attached to the "ring"). My box contacts in the bottom came out fairly easily. TIP - drill two holes and use tweezers (or something similar with two "legs") to push them / drive them out. I then used 24ga wire with insulation removed & twisted to attach to the resistor. Resistor mounted up inside center of case.

My toughest part was undoubtedly the upper spring! I couldn't find any way to mount it straight and solid. I finally just moved it outside of the entire upper case plastic and slipped it over the main box screw (see pics). This works, but not well. It causes the screw to be a bit tough to turn. The spring also turns thereby putting stress on the soldered wire connection on the spring. During testing of assembly (just attach/detach of lid) the e-clip came off that lid screw and fell inside the upper pcb area! No way I can have that happen again, so I removed the clip entirely.

My other issue is that the upper lid pieces won't properly mate together now! The corners keep popping out of place! Ugh! No idea why. I even carved a little plastic off with a knife to make them fit easier.

So I feel like I completely wasted a Saturday messing with this box just to be disappointed with the outcome. I'm unsure if I'll just leave the 2nd box alone or rip out the electronics entirely to make it a "protected cells" box like the original Pannova. Maybe I'll at least add the bottom connection between the cell pairs to make it a proper 2S2P box.

A few pics:

R9 & R10 removed:









Wire into drilled hole:









Bottom end soldered & heatshrinked, ready to stuff inside (heatshrink just to keep the wiring from bypassing the resistor):









Terminal connection at top, secured with superglue:









Wire soldered to "com" on pcb and soldered to new spring:









Spring wrapped around lid screw:









Conclusion - this mod is not for the faint at heart!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Corners of lid means u have it miss aligned, there is a specific way it fits together and have to have it right. All centers around the flat corner. PCB corner that power wire leads r on goes in the flat corner, then hole.for power wire to come though I'd also goes in that corner.

As for spring do archies mod or use hot glue like I did. Took me longer to do bottoms than PCB mods and have back together and ready to go.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, guess I can take it apart again and look to see if that flat corner is misaligned (I see it now in my photos, but never noticed it before). I was thinking about that center spring and now I think I understand Archie's mod better. I was stuck on trying to mount that spring to something, but it really just needs to have the lid screw go through it and have something behind it to keep pressure against the "washer" contact on the case. So I guess I'll open up that center hole for the spring to fit through easier and place a plastic insulator behind the spring like Archie did. It's fine little details like that I didn't pick up on in the posts and I did review them over and over again.

What's the best way to test this case that the mod for proper protection is working? I'd hate to stick unprotected cells in it and just let it run! I don't really have an adjustable power supply either.

-Garry


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> What's the best way to test this case that the mod for proper protection is working? I'd hate to stick unprotected cells in it and just let it run! I don't really have an adjustable power supply either.


There's nothing more than connecting the cells and multimeter, putting the load (e.g., the light head) and watch the voltage/current!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I did just that, stuck unprotected cells in the case and let her run. But this was with cheap cells that came wiht my light, stripped them from the pack after charging them and let her go lol.

I have found my KD2 indicator on the button is about even with the case indicators.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

This is exactly why I didn't go for yinding with those battery stuff. The fenix battery holder (2 batteries) was great but that still needed a 'mod' and I am totally skillless in modding


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## alvapo (Apr 5, 2015)

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/solastorm-xt40-explosion-961780.html#post11890459 -------->

battery polarity is not indicated in case battery pack manufacturer with buyer ape man unknowing = short circuit


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

In theory, one could just throw some cells in here when they want to ride and take them out to charge after, right? 

I mean were the mods were mainly to get rid of the parasitic drain and help with balance? If someone were to just have the cells in when they are riding it would be fine out of the box or no?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, taking cells out and charge them separately would be ok, but it is inpractical in frequent usage. Any you have to be careful each time when closing the case not making short with springs. It has happened to one of the members here.

Mod is dealing with parasiti drain and checking cells voltage, but not with balance charging.


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## alvapo (Apr 5, 2015)

no polarity indicated for Solastorm XT40 sold by Fasttech.No polarity indicated in << "user manual" >>.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

alvapo said:


> no polarity indicated for Solastorm XT40 sold by Fasttech.No polarity indicated in >.


The style connectors have one way polarity only. No such thing as an polarity concerns with bike lights they are ALL the same. They use dc adapter style barrel connectors adapted for water resistance, they are all wired, male and female the exact same way. Only way u would have reversed polarity is improperly installing cells and case is marked internally for cell positioning.

Manbeer, mods yes were parasitic drain and for protection to engage properly so it doesn't allow one cell to discharge too low because others are im safe range. If u use balance charger mostly for charging then it wont be a big concern not doing the mod, but if your going to rely mostly on charging in the case, then need to make sure not to run all the way dead to point of protection cut off if at all possible. Case will drain batteries slightly unbalanced, its normal for 2s2p, but it will take several cycles for it to become a possible problem if cells are balanced before use.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just ordered one to try out and figured screw it, I'll just pop the cells on my nitecore i4 each time, it's no problem.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Today I've been in contact with Helen from manufacturer of this battery case. She said they have no plans to do further improvements. I've ask her to forward our concerns to their engineeirs. I fact I was in contact for longer time trying to convince her (or them) but this is all they have to say 

At least she prommised to inform me if there is anything new in the future.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sounds like solarstorm is not too keen on listening to demand and making their products up to par to improve sales.

Dont think the companies understand that if they listen to groups like us, we would be willing to pay a bit more for a product as we know the simplest/cheapest things to fix for a factory are not easy for everyone to do themselves.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yep, some people just don't get it! 

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes, many people around these forums have fun modding things but we need some better alternatives for people who want something that is ready to go out of the box. If people want good reliable light heads there are a million options that will fit the bill if you spend a few more bucks. There are NO perfect battery cases out there.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman, with the contacts you have building your charger, would it be possible to have same manufacturer create Panova/SS style battery case but built to your specifications? 
Am pretty sure you already thought of that and would have mentioned were it a possibility but still just had to ask.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, I did think of, but it is hard to do. Many time there is culture barier, some doesn't understand English (or very bad). Also working on different things at same time is not good. I think the easiest way would be to have some chinese guy here to do it. We can't imagine what manufacturers there exists. I'm shure there are hundreds, but which one out of milion? 

What if we would ask Hunk Lee? It might not be the cheapest way, but he might help to kick it off. Archie would be the best person to define our demands, I think. At least he knows electronics the best.

Edit: I didn't build any chargers, just find one of the manufacturers. It's third in a row but first to agree on some quality (to be proved) and to arange to get testing samples (not for free, but Gearbest chimmed in). The first company I have worked on for about two months and we were on sendig samples, but then they admited they can't provide declared power. So a lot of work behind the scenes....


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## alvapo (Apr 5, 2015)

__________________________________________________ ______________________________ Tigris99[QUOTE = tigris99; 11,890,941] style connectors Have Only One way of Polarity. No thing as a polarity concerns with the lights of the bike What are all the same. Use the style barrel connectors DC Suitable for water resistance, are all connected, Men and women equally. Polarity would be reversed so soloist cells EU CORRECTLY AND INSTALLATION and case marked Inside the positioning of cells. Manbeer, mods were parasitic drain and for the protection of suitably involved so That does not allow a cell to download The Others are too low because im safe range. Especially if u use balance charger for charging, then will not the UN Big Problem, do not do the mod, but if you go to Rate rely Especially Silla charging In case, then They need food CAREFUL not run All Protections dead road Against off if possible. If you consume the batteries a little 'unbalanced, the USA marked as 2S2P to normal, but it will take more cycles to make it possible UN Problem if the cells are balanced before dell'Uso. [/ QUOTE] __________________________________________________ ______________________________ Tigris99 not entirely true, See my photo holder Cases battery XT40 ... >>>>>> not Polarity Suitable for Solastorm XT40 sold by Fasttech.No Polarity Indicated in>. Sold it to me, no indication.No polarity indication written in the user manual.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah, looks like I'll be doing all my charging in my nitecore i4. I will wait for this case to arrive but so far I think I'm liking the ones that come with the mudder a bit more


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Is the mudder case protected??? Would be a good candidate if I can change the connector. All my stuff is switching ot switched already to 20ga cables.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yep has protection. Design seems good. Cable looks like it can be swapped no big deal but I didn't fully pull it apart


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well looks like ill have to get a mudder sooner than later lol. Now why can they just make and sell those cases separately?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I don't know, but at 25 bucks it is a nice alternative to the solarstorm since it's like getting a lighthead for 12 dollars extra. The bad thing about these cases is that the screws strip easily but I swapped them with some that had a larger head and while they aren't perfectly flush they make it easy to work with. If I was feeling more ambitious I might try to find thumb wheel screws that fit the top cover. Also, the lighthead in most ways is superior to the securitying. Pcb fits better so probably only minor thermal issues. Cord is long and tint is a bit on the greenish side but it would be an awesome one to use for your son especially since you can program high to like 70 percent and a 2 cell would last him forever!

Edit: with this in mind I just ordered a 3rd mudder that I'm going to swap packs with to one of the cheapo ones I got with my securitying and give to a buddy that has no helmet light


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

....trying not to order ANOTHER light head......still holding out against getting an 880 clone, but need a case for my son. Nice sales pitch use my kid against me  This would give me a 4 cell case for him and a light for his helmet or bars, depending on which one, it or my black ynding I can get to have a better spot profile for the lid. 

Truly I shouldnt be in a huge hurry to get him set up, be another month probably before my lawyer gets me able to see him again. Long story, but just spent $1k on a lawyer, hopefully take him away, but aint seen him since Xmas but used to have him all summer, 3 outta 4 weekends, etc till last fall. What ive learned from child services, is why shes hiding him from me. She doesnt want to loose child support from me by me taking him away.

Between that and my elbow is why I seem a bit off or weird, my 1 yr old, wife, and till I can ride, these lights are my sanity atm.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I understand where you're coming from, hope everything goes well for you. I never really had much of a relationship with my dad because we had nothing in common and he had no real interests or hobbies to share. your son is lucky to have such an awesome dad! And yeah, aside from the addiction of trying out new things all the time, when you have the tools etc it is a great way to pass the time and can be done on a budget. Especially compared to RC, where it seemed like I broke something every time I went out and the hobby shop was 30 mins away...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh ya dont get me started on rc, I effectively consider it the biggest waste of money in a hobby ever. And it doesn't matter what. I did helicopters, revo and tmaxx, emaxx omg I could go on. I swear I spent more time running to buy parts than actually playing with them lol.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So since I have 2 sets of cells and getting my money back on the one set, going to get a mudder ordered and compare case to my modded ss cases.

I have my 3rd ss case with 2nd fenix case on the way. Going to reinstall USB set up on the case that has issues with the indicator, use it for my commuter. 1 side will be "cut free" of circuits, use protected cells and set for 4.2v for my kd remote button light, other side will be the USB for power bank to charge my phone at work.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ran into a problem I wanted to share. Dont use the smallest wire you can find from the spring to the PCB for the protection mod. Had one case stop working cause it broke at a solder joint. Use 24awg (or I used a small scrap piece of 20awg silicone wire).


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

At least, now you know for sure that protection actually works!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol ya


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Guys subbed to this thread, working on getting case fixed so no mods needs, check out thread for that for details.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok so now that I have this in my hands, it's an interesting unit. I don't know if I'd buy it again but it serves it's purpose. Internal issues/mods aside it's really best suited to use in a backpack or hydration pack imo. The usb cable can be nice to charge the phone in your backpack. On the frame I wouldn't want that **** out in the open flopping around though. The cable may or may not be long enough to reach your helmet light, if it does, beautiful. If not you get to have even more cable jumbled up everywhere as you may only need a few inches extension. Aside from that, hopefully your lighthead doesn't draw much amperage as the wire feels kinda thin and 5 feet of it including an extension will certainly not help keep your voltage up. Then there is the issue of it looking like a Lego made of turd quality plastic. Also no padding to mount on the frame and hold in place or prevent abrasion. I don't know...I'm trying to like it but it's just kind of lackluster. I will probably use it in my backpack though and keep a cord to charge the phone in case of emergency. They really should have went way shorter with this cord or a bit longer. It's awkward in length


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I was good with the length, but the tiny ass wire from the box to the y......voltage drop nightmare for my lights.

All your other points...ya lol. I had to fix all of that :/. But modded its a nice enough case being the cheap price. Think my third one is going to be purely a USB power bank for phone, camera whatever for when I go outta town. Had one case die(my fault), other is on my commuter. Praying GJHS finds us a good case soon lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes, it is an AWESOME power bank actually. Last night when I was working I used it for that after I mentioned it. Good way to make use of those cells you stripped from the mudder. 
Think it'll be a good pack for my helmet light though as long as I can get it to reach without extension


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

There are much better options for "power banks" such as the highly regarded ENB models. I use the Tri w/Q5 LED for in my car (emergency use). It has built in charging circuitry, works on 1, 2 or 3 cells, gives you battery status indication, and is easy to pop open to replace cells. You could even use it as a Li-Ion charger, though it would be slow charging 2 or 3 cells. I use it with NOS laptop pulls. I see they have a 4x18650 model now.

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That's a nice unit indeed, like how it's set up in parallel so you can run it on any number of cells in a pinch. The solarstorm will more than likely make its way into my backpack provided I don't need an extension, along with a small cord to charge my phone in a pinch. It's sort of a jack of all trades, master of none situation. The case I had from the mudder that KD now stocks does the opposite; works well on the bike but it's easy to pull the cord loose in a backpack so this will serve it's purpose. Also have the one that came with the mj880 clone. I don't know what it is with the Chinese using super long cables on the light head and battery packs instead of leaving it short and using a proper extension for those who may need it


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I actually like it, cause I just "cut to fit" application.


Thinking about it I think im going to leave stock connector on, just shorten the part before the y as much as I can. Just for case that I need the case to power a light at some point.


This weekend I need to do runtime test on the yinding with the 2 cell keeppowers in the fenix case. Make sure I get an hour or more on medium.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'll be doing a 2 cell run test as well but probably won't be able to get around to it until monday...first up, the cheapo eachine 3000mah

I really like the quality of the fenix case, it's a shame they don't come in a 4 cell version


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Now this case is available in blue color from DealExtreme:
Upgraded 18650 DC/USB Double Connect Battery Case - Dark Blue - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

In red also:
Upgraded 4 x 18650 DC / USB Dual Interfaces Protected Battery Case - Red - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Maybe there is another circuit board inside which solves some of the issues we discussed here???


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nope just different colored plastic. The biggest issue still hasn't been addressed, the protection circuit.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Most likely, the "upgraded" refers to the A1 version of PCB (with switchable 5V output). But someone should buy it to check that...


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

I accidentally put in batteries the wrong way. Stupid, I know (I was just taking them out for a quick balance check). U6 is fried - from Archie's notes this is a 3.3V voltage regulator. If anyone has a lead on a suitable replacement part, I'd love to hear about it. A pinout of the original part may also be of help or if youcould probe voltages at each of the 3 pins on a working one).
Edit : Mine is an "S112A1" PCB. USB is (was..) only active when the battery indicator was on. Now neither battery indicator or USB work.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

From the posts back in the thread you are reffering to:

"U6 - *V1NH* is a +3.3V voltage regulator. Provides stable power to U2 controller and constant brightness of indication LEDs regardless from state of discharge."

Maybe you should ask Archie or someone at BLF. Depending on where you live I would search also at Mouser and Farnell. But it would be probably hard to get exact V1NH and you would need substitute. I'm not EE so can't help.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Any chip in SOT-23 package with sufficient (i.e., 9V or more) input voltage will work. But check the PCB with multimeter first, to find correct layout of pins, as for example LM3480 and MCP1702 use different pinouts.


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm hoping someone can help me understand what's going on with my setup.

I recently bought some Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B's from gearbest along with a few of these Solarstorm cases.

When I drive a reasonably big light like a Spiker 1210 for example the light enters into low voltage warning very quickly. Digging more into this I'm finding that the Voltage sag with a Solarstorm with 4 3400mah panasonics appears to be ~1 volt at the light head drawing about 2 amps with the light on high.

The same test done with an old cheap 4400mah Magicshine branded battery shows a sag or more like .4-.5 volts. A 6 cell pack xeccon pack shows a sag of .4v.

If I do the simple math, 2s2p means that for a 2 amp draw at the light head each cell should be providing 1 amp, which is ~.3C. At that discharge rate the voltage drop according to the data sheet should be pretty negligible.

I replaced the battery cable with a legitimate magicshine cable, so USB is gone, but not disabled on the board, the thicker wire guage seemed to make ~0.15v difference.

So where are the losses coming from? It's affecting my run time that much but it is annoying to have the spiker 1210 run for 2+ hours in low battery/flashing red mode.

Some test data:


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Springs are very likely one point of bigger resistance ie. voltage drop. For the circuit I can't tell. Archie might tell more. 

Try to get around springs if you can and measure voltage drop. It would be interesting information for all of us. Also which version of circuit do you have. Is it A1 at the end?


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Is there actually anything better than this available? Seems to have issues but don't see many options for alternatives..


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

ledoman said:


> Springs are very likely one point of bigger resistance ie. voltage drop. For the circuit I can't tell. Archie might tell more.
> 
> Try to get around springs if you can and measure voltage drop. It would be interesting information for all of us. Also which version of circuit do you have. Is it A1 at the end?


My circuits are labelled S112A1.

Also I'm using protected cells. But I don't know if the protection would cause any meaingful losses.


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

I popped the top off one of my units so I could measure voltage at the Spring terminal. Just remove the 2 screws holding the top assembly together then slide the top cover off, exposing the back side of the PCB with the LEDs, power switch, and spring solder points.

So I could measure voltage straight across the batteries vs voltage on the output side of the circuit. I used the same circuit measuring point as before which is almost at the light head, so including line losses, same measurement as before.

Results:

Using solarstorm #2 from previous chart:
Light off @ Spring terminal 8.31v
Light off @ light head 8.30v
Light on high @ spring terminal 7.78v
Light on high @ light head 7.46v


So somewhere in the circuitry and wiring I'm losing .32v. Seemingly needlessly.

Edit: alright, I got less lazy and measured the output of the circuit. No measurable difference from one side of the circuit to the other when running the light on high (within the margin of error of my meter, and the time it takes to move the probes around vs battery drain, etc). So all this voltage loss is primarily undersized wiring?

My previous best case with the solarstorm and 4 protected ncr18650b's was a .65v sag using a magicshine cable. Best performance period was a .38v sag for the xeccon pack. 

Short of soldering up a pack with the 4 ncr18650b cells i've been tested with I don't really know where to go from here. There is ~.15 volts I'd like to have back, maybe it's inherint to the cells, or the protection on the cells, or the springs, or who knows. But over all it seems like I can not isolate one main culprit.

So the lesson here is replace the cable with a proper 20 guage magicshine style wire and throw that usb junk away?

Hopefully someone with more electrical skills than mine (almost none) can weigh in on this.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Your problem lies in the stock wire/plug. Mainly the section from the PCB to the y in the cable, its like 24 or 26awg wire.

Those of us using the cases at all replaced them with magicshine cable or the copy that's also also 20awg from dx.com (1/3 the price)


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is also important what cable you have at light side and what is its lenght. There will always be some looses in the connectors we are using. They are not best suited for higher currents.
Shurely there are also looses in the battery protection circuit and the springs. Each part adds a bit to voltage drop. 
In this situation you can only change cable and use unprotected cells. If you are really picky you can add wick copper braid to the springs just like the addicted flashlight guys do. You can find description of doing that at BLF forum.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

As ledoman said, there is a series of issues:

First is that more cells in parallel with mean less voltage sag, so naturally xeccon will be best.

The protected cells, they will sag more than unprotected. Thats the first thing that the other packs do better. They have 1 large protection circuit for all the cells (which are unprotected cells)

Then the springs, which arent horrible since they are only in the cap, use buttons in the bottom of the case.

The case protection isnt too bad either in itself. when using with protected cells though your essentially doubling the problem.

That tiny wire from the case to the split for the USB.

And as ledoman pointed out, the connector isnt exactly the greatest either. But DC connectors have become the universal standard atm. Hard to get around.

Your light head wont be of any issues for that, Xeccon has their crap together so they arent using some crappy tiny wire for their lights.

You will see numbers about like the magicshine pack if you ditch the stock wire connector, replace it, and use unprotected cells. Just be sure to balance charge the cells every few uses as the built in protection is not fully functional, it wont detect 1 cell that goes too low. But if you parallel balance a set of 4 cells (purchased together as a set so they are from the same batch) which is the best way to balance them, you can go several cycles before worrying about balancing again.

And then there is the spring mod which will give you a bit more, except its not exactly easy in this instance because the spring goes through the plastic housing into the PCB. Youd have to remove the springs from the pcb, dill the holes a bit larger so you can direct solder the bypass wire to the pcb then tot he end of the spring that contacts the battery terminal.

Side note on the bypass, using braided copper (aka solder wick) is ok, but others and now I have found that 16 or 18awg silicone wire works basically as well, but is much more flexible and easier to do the bypass with. Even 20awg wire helps substantially but the guys on BLF are fanatics about it, lol. ANd I can vouch for 18awg silicone wire working VERY WELL.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tig, good point about using silicone wire, much simpler. Still 20AWG should be fine for that short piece of wire since flow path is just added to the spring (ie. makes it > 20AWG), plus they are in paralell (2 bypasses on 2 springs at positive side and same on negative). Even 22AWG should do it if you take all this into account.


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> As ledoman said, there is a series of issues


You forgot the problem I had when I accidentally put in all the cells the wrong way. Voltage regulator will fry, and neither battery level indicator or USB feature will work. Seems it would have been dead simple to avoid too, but would have cost them an additional diode to protect the 3.3V voltage regulator.

I need the USB charging feature, but ended up building one around a KIS3R33S module off of ebay instead. Soldered a magicshine connector to input end and 2xMicroUSB, 1xMiniUSB and 1x3.5mm female (to power my gomadic garmin500 cable) to the output. Wrapped everything with electrical tape and shrinkwrap, seems waterproof enough to me. No chance of reversing polarity. More compact than carrying multiple USB cables. All devices can be hooked up at the same time for hours of entertainment (Phone, BTspeaker, even Garmin500). Done.

I may still try to fix my burnt solarstorm case, but I think the KIS3R33S module is the better way to go for USB power, mainly because there is no chance I will fry it again the night before a big ride.

The module was $1.57 on ebay, btw. There are some other modules with an integrated voltmeter as well, I would avoid those as it will drain your battery and requires a buttonpress to turn on the voltage converter (so difficult to make waterproof).


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

Morten Schmidt said:


> You forgot the problem I had when I accidentally put in all the cells the wrong way. Voltage regulator will fry, and neither battery level indicator or USB feature will work. Seems it would have been dead simple to avoid too, but would have cost them an additional diode to protect the 3.3V voltage regulator.
> 
> I need the USB charging feature, but ended up building one around a KIS3R33S module off of ebay instead. Soldered a magicshine connector to input end and 2xMicroUSB, 1xMiniUSB and 1x3.5mm female (to power my gomadic garmin500 cable) to the output. Wrapped everything with electrical tape and shrinkwrap, seems waterproof enough to me. No chance of reversing polarity. More compact than carrying multiple USB cables. All devices can be hooked up at the same time for hours of entertainment (Phone, BTspeaker, even Garmin500). Done.
> 
> ...


Are you soldering something onto the pcb of the original battery box?

I had the same issue as you. Except my output led still works the usb doesn't. The main thing is the box and lights still work fine for 2 hours, which is good enough. I will buy a new box when they update the electronics.


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

I will be soldering on a new 3.3v regulator and adding a protection diode if I ever get around to it. But the KIS3R33S module is a stand alone thing, I feel it is a more robust solution for those who need USB power and don't mind soldering some cables on. Look up the module on eBay if interested.


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

Update on my situation after having mistakenly put in the cells the wrong way. I replaced the burnt 3.3V regulator and.. tadaa.. nothing. The battery indicator now correclt recieves 3.3V on pin 1, but still doesn't work. 

If you like the battery indicator, make sure to never put in cells the wrong way!

What gets me is it would have cost them half a cent to put in a protection diode before the voltage regulator. Attaching the indicator and USB charging circuit after the protection circuit instead of directly to the battery cells might have solved the problem as well and given the additional benefit of the indicator idle current never being able to drain battery below the protection circuit's minimum voltage. Piece of $h!t.


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

Morten Schmidt said:


> Update on my situation after having mistakenly put in the cells the wrong way. I replaced the burnt 3.3V regulator and.. tadaa.. nothing. The battery indicator now correclt recieves 3.3V on pin 1, but still doesn't work.
> 
> If you like the battery indicator, make sure to never put in cells the wrong way!
> 
> What gets me is it would have cost them half a cent to put in a protection diode before the voltage regulator. Attaching the indicator and USB charging circuit after the protection circuit instead of directly to the battery cells might have solved the problem as well and given the additional benefit of the indicator idle current never being able to drain battery below the protection circuit's minimum voltage. Piece of $h!t.


 I think my mistake was improper contact or incompatible ICR batteries. It heated the springs and fried the usb circuit. I deliberetely put it in backwards later on to see if anything would change and nothing happened (I didn't fuse additional circuits). The box still works great for my purposes and the charge indicator is so so (its somewhat usefull at the extremes). I just charge it fully and try to conserve if im riding for more than 2 hours. I think the voltage sag issue occured after the spring heat up incodent. I wouldn't call this a POS product. Considering its price, connector, cable length, and features its great. If it goes bad just get a cheap welded pack, or a better pre made pack. For individual cell use, try your luck with a different battery case (fenix). I might be better off removing the circuitry and installing better contacts and wire. Just too lazy for that.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Is there a quick & easy (& safe) way to test the protection of this box after doing the "protection circuit fix"? 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I just tried it with cheap Chinese cells from tore down pack, that way if it failed I wasn't out anything. Otherwise they make power supplies you can adjust voltage output during use for testing.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, well I do have some used cells pulled from a laptop pack that I could test with. Should I look for anything other than low voltage cut-off? I don't intend to charge any cells in it. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, how it behaves if you make a short on a light side? For example scenario when you accidetialy pull cable our from light head and +/- wires make a short. It should cut off the power. Plugging to the charger for a moment should reset it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ledoman last we knew these didnt take well to being shorted.... the protection mod we do was purely voltage cut off.

Garry, Ive charged in it without issues. Unless its a total crap charger I see no issues. I used my good hobby charger first, last time was one of my nitefighter chargers. I wouldnt rely on cells to stay balanced though.

BTW, your better at dealing with these little electronics than I am right now, I pulled it off first try you should be GTG.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok, testing now. Fired it up on a junk light before connecting my modded BT40S (needed to use,a light with high draw so I didn't have to wait hours for the cells to deplete which started at full charge). This modded BT40S is only pulling 2.6A max off this case though I never replaced the case's stock 22ga power lead and I'm also only using used laptop pulls (4). Will have to try 4 good cells at some point to see if that power lead really needs to be upgraded as I don't really want to get back into this case again! Right now it's running my BT40S on high which is pulling a fairly steady 2A. Battery indicator on light went to red immediatly. 

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Test run over. Case tripped protection @ about 5.12v under load (bounced back up to 6.13v no load after resetting protection). At 5.12v the BT40S would only draw 0.15A on Turbo which was very dim. Pulled each individual 18650 out of the case 20 mins later and measured 2 of them @ 3.26v and the other 2 @ 3.38v. 

So what exactly did this protection mod fix again? 

Oh, and 4 good cells still only allowed the BT40S to pull 2.58A off this case. 

-Garry


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

Whatever you do, don't test the reverse polarity protection..

The fix means the PCM monitors each cells voltage. You noticed having about 0.1V imbalance - it is entirely possible that under load you had 0.2V such that one cell bank was at 2.5V while the other at 2.7V. If you didn't have the center connection, the PCM would have probably kept the party going until the total voltage was 5.0V which might well have been 2.4V in cell1 and 2.6V in cell2. Perhaps no biggie in your situation, but could be if cells were even more unbalanced. 

However, I'm not convinced this pack is worth the effort. No reverse protection piece of garbage. Just use it and enjoy it while it works. Remove cells once in a while to balance them outside the pack.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Garry, mod works, protection tripped when one bank hit 2.5v under load like its supposed to.

The stock connector is only 24 or 26ga from the y down to the PCB, so hella voltage sag between case and light head.

Proper connector and protection mod I really like my 2 cases. Just sad we have to mod them to be good.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow! 24 or 26ga and I'm still able to pull 2.6A! That's amazing in and of itself! Guess I do need to swap in a new power cable. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

U can pull the amps, voltage sag on the other hand.... And iirc arent u running higher amps than that?


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Proper connector and protection mod I really like my 2 cases. Just sad we have to mod them to be good.


For a propper mod, you will need to insert a shortly diode before th 3.3v regulator. Without reverse polarity protection, Murphy's law is working against you. If it can go wrong...

If you go through all the trouble of adding th center tap, please consider adding that protection diode as well.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I dont see reverse polarity protection even mattering to me. Its useful to make sure cells arent in wrong (no idea how to protect again cells being put in wrong) but unless your changing connectors on case or light (and not paying attention) there's no chance of reverse polarity in these.


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> I dont see reverse polarity protection even mattering to me. Its useful to make sure cells arent in wrong (no idea how to protect again cells being put in wrong) but unless your changing connectors on case or light (and not paying attention) there's no chance of reverse polarity in these.


It is VERY useful in case you ever do put in the cells backward. It could happen, and if it does, the 3.3v regulator and the indicator ic will give up the ghost.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

What's the diode that should be installed and where should it go? (Edited pic would be nice.)

I put cells in backwards in my Fenix case trying to hurry.

-Garry


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

What a fail. Inserting batteries into this box in a dim area is not advisable.. the smell of burning components isn't so good, ha. What's the chance I damaged the batteries or lights plugged into it? 

I'm hoping my order of the Fenix cases from aliexpress is legit and arrives soon..


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If it was short time, batteries should be just fine. Very likely you have damaged springs (loose of tension) and protection circuit.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Yeah, I don't care much about the box.. Must be a lot of heat generated when polarity is reversed. The springs are not fully gold now and the plastic that touches them is quite distorted.. 

Obviously user error but not ideal it doesn't protect against is, there's always going to be one time where you're rushing you don't double-check..


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## Morten Schmidt (Apr 25, 2014)

nathan89 said:


> What a fail. Inserting batteries into this box in a dim area is not advisable.. the smell of burning components isn't so good, ha. What's the chance I damaged the batteries or lights plugged into it?


Happened to me too. See my comments above (I didn't have a light connected). The 3.3V regulator is not reverse polarity protected and will destroy itself and the indicator IC. Not sure what happens when you have a light connected. Can you let us know if the light sustained damage as well?


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Yeah, I'll update soon if my batteries aren't dead, will have to test with multimeter if I can find it 

I'm surprised there isn't more companies making these cases, or is it just better they sell expensive battery packs that people throw away once they fail, even though it could only be 1 of the cells being faulty :/


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think we've said it before, if a company would make a good case we would be ecstatic and it would sell like hotcakes! 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Be great to see these done properly. But these people don't seem to get the fact we'd happily pay the extra price for the tiny bit of extra work they would have to do.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, I've tried to make some influence on the manufacturer of those cases but failed. They just don't listen. They make it their way regardless what you do. 

At first I've tried to get some preproduction sample, but the didn't want to cooperate. Then later when I've got sample to test from GB I've complained and explained what is wrong they told the have produced thousands of items and they won't change anything. Now, uderstand if you can.... 

For example see the modes in most of the flashlights - they still have strobe and SOS almost no one wants. No mather how much we complain they are still doing it their way...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sos is good in flashlights imo. But until you need it you see no point in it. I ride in areas where a flashing sos light into the air would still get attention and could save me.

Flasher is good for urban use.

But having either of these on lights designed for mtb trail use is nothing more than annoying modes getting in the way.

I do remember your posts about trying to get these cases fixed. Anytime I bring up "light needs a neutral white option" the manufacturer wants a freaking 500 piece order. Something that costs $0 extra to do and would increase sales. Too many of those companies know nothing of the market, just trying to make a quick buck and hope everyone is as "stupid" as they are being told.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Just about modes, SOS and strobe might be of use in some cases, but are unoying when you have them in the normal mode cycle. This is what manufacturers just can't or does not want to understand. It's easier to copy/paste some code and not ask themselfves is it good for customers or not. It is just the way they operate.... (in most cases).


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Panic over. Checked all 4 cells with a cheapo multimeter and all are around 4v and both lights I had connected to it are still working. Yay!

Batteries were removed about 30 seconds after I realised what had happened, I wouldn't like to know what would happen if you left it any longer as the batteries were getting quite warm..


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Which batteries you have had in this case? They should be good ones standing 30 seconds short.


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## nathan89 (Feb 7, 2015)

Samsung ICR18650 - 26FM


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Those are not high drain ones. This is good in this case as they don't produce extended current flow. Still they easy give out 3A without loosing much capacity. Good experience


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## TANSTAAFL4201 (Nov 22, 2015)

I Pmed this to Archie, but hoping anyone can help the noob.
I am still a bit confused. I am not a EE by any means but am decent at soldering. I wanted to do away with the usb and magicshine cord entirely and hardwire my light directly to the PCB. The one I have is identical to the S112A1 version, but a chinese knock-off labeled ss-026A. only difference are the label names. All components in same place though.

I tried to do as Fourtrax did and just remove the USB from the equation. Not really interested in modding whole box as I am running unprotected cells. 
Mine looked just like his :









I got nothing when I added juice.
So I went back to read more. It would seem I also need to cut this trace, is that correct?









I also read that I need to ground the 10k resistor. Is that done simply by cutting the trace? Is there more to it ?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance for a quick reply
TANSTAAFL4201


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

First thing, you said your running unprotected cells which means YOU REALLY NEED to do the full box mod. At the very least read up on how to balance liion cells properly (batter holder wired in parallel etc) and watch to try and not rely on the protection.

But yes to eliminate the USB you need to cut that trace (and remove the connector)


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

TANSTAAFL4201 said:


> The one I have is identical to the S112A1 version, but a chinese knock-off labeled ss-026A. only difference are the label names. All components in same place though.


It looks like your PCB is close to the early version, not S112A1. Probably, you can disable +5v output by unsoldering pin#7 of U1 chip:
Review: New "Solarstorm" 2S2P 8.4V "water resistant" 4 x 18650 battery case for bicyc - Page 6- Mtbr.com

And as *tigris99 *already said, whole point of case modification was, to provide safe use of unprotected cells in it.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> It looks like your PCB is close to the early version, not S112A1. Probably, you can disable +5v output by unsoldering pin#7 of U1 chip


Just a 'FYI':

You also need to connect pin 7 U1 to ground - lifting it and leaving it open does not disable the 5V.

(Oh and as an 'FYI' to TANSTAAFL4201: that trace you're asking about doesn't exist on your board - You know you will lose the indicator LEDs if you disable the +5V, don't you?)


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Indicators are powered by separate circuit, and are totally unrelated to the +5v part.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

-Archie- said:


> Indicators are powered by separate circuit, and are totally unrelated to the +5v part.


On the later (A1) board, yes, but not on the one that TANSTAAFL4201 has. There is no U6 on his/her board.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, you're right. I don't have that version, so can't say about detailed difference.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

It is the version I have  (But I have modified it so that the USB connector has its own cable.)

To keep the indicators with the USB disabled, you need to cut the trace between C6 and the USB+ and add a separate supply to U2 (top right here - supply from R4, feed into C6, ground to copper).










As above Pin 7 U1 needs to be lifted from the board and connected to ground to disable the USB (pin 4 U1 is convenient), or as I did, and connected it to pin 5 of U2 so that the USB is on whenever the lowest LED indicator is on (not shown above).

Quiescent current only dropped to ~1.6mA (from 8.5mA), so I think it is more trouble than it is worth :-/. Better to buy a newer box where this is already done.

I think that fixing the protection circuit, however is very worthwhile - thanks to this thread for the info :thumbsup:.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Would turning this from 2s2p to 4s1p be possible? I have 4 protected and 4 unprotected cells to choose from, and I charge the cells independently on a dedicated charger. I am mostly looking at it from it's water resistance properties and ability to secure to my frame. 

Worth doing? Just basically gut the whole thing? Thoughts?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The guts wont allow for it, you'd have nothing left useable except the shell.


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## snorf (Dec 21, 2015)

I have been looking for a case to hold 4 x 18650 protected cells to power my Design Shine DS-500 tail light. I stumbled across the SolarStorm case at GearBest and placed an order a few days ago.

Sadly, I only just now found this thread and this current one that mentions GB's poor shipping performance. Would I be better off cancelling that order and buying this ebay item?

Given that I want to use protected cells and only charge them in my Nitecore i4 charger, is the SolarStorm battery case worth waiting for, or is there something more suitable? I was initially planning to wire up a simple 2S2P pack without any electronics. Is that not recommended? I have been using a homemade 2S pack with limited success due to bumps that interrupt current flow - got to get that remedied. Thanks.


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

I took delivery of mine today, and promptly ripped into the PCB at the top to see what I had.
My PCB is branded S111A1, and I don't appear to have the circlip to hold in the cable, judging by the fact the black outer casing on the cable was on the wrong side of the hole and I could see the coloured wires inside.

Is there a comprehensive list of recommended modifications to do to this box, or am I going to need to trawl through the thread?

Charging isn't too much of an issue, I've scrapped my original magicshine chargers in favour of a balance charger, and my welded packs use JST plugs to charge. I've got a Nitecore V4 individual cell charger, so my pack won't have a charger connected (unless there is a way of adding a balance plug?


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## mugenpower (Feb 16, 2011)

There is a 8 cell magicshine battery pack in ebay fyi.

DIY 8x 18650 Battery Holder for MagicShine LED Bike Light T6 U2 L2 LED Bikelight | eBay


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

---Deleted----


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## PScal (Apr 29, 2010)

y0bailey said:


> Would turning this from 2s2p to 4s1p be possible? I have 4 protected and 4 unprotected cells to choose from, and I charge the cells independently on a dedicated charger. I am mostly looking at it from it's water resistance properties and ability to secure to my frame.
> 
> Worth doing? Just basically gut the whole thing? Thoughts?


I converted my pack to 4s1p by bypassing the circuit board entirely and re-terminating the pack with anderson power pole connectors (which I use on all of my diy lights.) The light it powers is 6 Nichia 219 in series powered by a MaxFlex driver.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

soopahfly said:


> Is there a list of modifications to this battery box, or do I need to go through the whole thread and pick out the relative bits.


Yes, the list of various changes is posted here in the form of thread. You'll need to go through and pick out the bits applicable to you.


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## snorf (Dec 21, 2015)

My first post got held up in moderation for a few days, and in the meantime I ordered one of these units from the ebay seller I linked in my first post. I received it this week, and it is marked S112A1. As posted earlier, I intend to use protected cells only, don't want charging or USB capabilities, just a case to hold cells in a 2S2P configuration.

Is the first step to desolder the springs from the board? After I get the pcb removed, I'll solder the spring contacts first, then connect to the pigtail cable I received from DesignShine. Any other pointers? Thanks.



ledoman said:


> EDIT:[/B]
> 
> *Protection circuit pictures*
> 
> ...


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## snorf (Dec 21, 2015)

My posts keep getting held for days in moderation, so I'm not sure if anyone has seen my inquiry yet. Thanks.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

snorf said:


> Is the first step to desolder the springs from the board? After I get the pcb removed, I'll solder the spring contacts first, then connect to the pigtail cable I received from DesignShine. Any other pointers? Thanks.


You'll have to desolder them first, yes. But do not remove PCB entirely: otherwise, there's nothing else to mount the springs. Just cut all the traces around spring holes, leaving some copper around each of them, then solder all four points and cable with pieces of wire according to your connection scheme.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

snorf said:


> *My first post got held up in moderation for a few days,* and in the meantime I ordered one of these units from the ebay seller I linked in my first post. I received it this week, and it is marked S112A1. As posted earlier, I intend to use protected cells only, don't want charging or USB capabilities, just a case to hold cells in a 2S2P configuration.


I think this is only because you are new to MTBR. I don't think they usually let the new people post photos until after they get a number of posts. This is done to protect from the spammers unfortunately.


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## Radicool (Jan 14, 2016)

Gooday all! My first post here. I purchased one of these battery cases from 'Dealsmachine' along with four NCR18650B batteries to power my SolarStorm 3X Cree Light with 8.4V battery from 'bicycle-light' off eBay. The welded 2S2P pack that came with the light set no longer holds much charge so I bought this battery case along with the NCR18650B Panasonic cells.

I measured each of the new Panasonic cells at 3.62V. Placed all four cells in the case and measured an output of 5.75V at the DC socket. I was expecting 7.24V (2 X 3.62V) from the 2S2P arrangement. Pressing indicator button lights two green LED's. Removing each of the two batteries in series gave the same output so both parallel strings are working.

I then connected the 8.4V / 1A charger that came with the SolarStorm 3X Cree Light used for charging the welded tab pack to the DC socket. Usually the multi colored LED would change from green (fully charged) to red (partially charged) during charging. The LED on the charger remained green indicating a no charge state. The output of the charger is 10.26V (open circuit).

At this stage I decided to connect an adjustable power supply to the DC socket of the battery case starting with 8.4 V @ 1A charge rate. No current was being drawn from the battery case with the new Panasonic NCR18650B batteries inside so I slowly increased the output to 9V. Still no current draw.

My question is does this battery case require a special charger above 8.4V to charge the batteries while they're still inside? Any other thoughts are most appreciated.

Thanks!


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## #Eric (Jan 15, 2016)

Hi guys,

i want to modify the SolarStorm case. Therefore I have read the whole thread. Unfortunately one thing is unclear for me.
On page 6 -Archie- connects both "-" contacts and in the opposite tigris connects "-" and "+" with the resistor (page 9). In my eyes the rest of the modifications is identical. Could anyone explain the difference, please?
I am just a civil engineer. 

greetings


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Really there need to be an updated solarstorm case or one which irons out the flaw of this unit  I'm quite annoyed I missed the Fenix deal....Grrr


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

#Eric said:


> On page 6 -Archie- connects both "-" contacts and in the opposite tigris connects "-" and "+" with the resistor (page 9). In my eyes the rest of the modifications is identical. Could anyone explain the difference, please?
> I am just a civil engineer.


Hi Eric,
Resistor should be connected to the "middle point" of 2S2P battery - that is, to the point where two "-" and two "+" (from pairs of parallel cells) are connected together.


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## #Eric (Jan 15, 2016)

So, the relevant thing is, to realize a connection between the two lower boards?
Where and how I do the connection is not so important, right?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Exactly.


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## #Eric (Jan 15, 2016)

Great!
Thank you!


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

I got one of these from GB and it came in the other day. I loaded it up with charged cells but couldnt get it to do anything. no indicator lights, wouldnt run a lamp, wouldnt react when plugged into a charger. so I tried different cells but no luck with that either.
is there a trick to this or did I get a defect?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Make sure you put them in the right way is about all.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks Tigris, when loading it I was always careful to use the right orientation. 
I dug a little deeper and believe I have found the problem, they are using crap components and poor QC. One of the capacitors is a mess and one of the main IC's has a huge crater in it.



















Glad I wasted $12 and then waited 2 months for this.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

I can forgive crap soldering when it works, but seriously?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

mugenpower said:


> There is a 8 cell magicshine battery pack in ebay fyi.
> 
> DIY 8x 18650 Battery Holder for MagicShine LED Bike Light T6 U2 L2 LED Bikelight | eBay


Great find! 
That's interesting, how would you carry that on a bike? just stick it into a frame pack or something? seems fragile to me, doesnt look like theres much keeping the cells in place. $20 seems a bit steep, but I'm keeping an eye on it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Welcome to the Chinese lottery, you can try to see if they'll send you a new case


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Welcome to the Chinese lottery, you can try to see if they'll send you a new case


yeah, its true.
I put in a claim with GB. they have been good to me before, but i'm sure it will be months before it gets straightened out.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

So are these things largely arriving DOA these days? I'd like to buy one to power a SolarStorm U2 but I'm not terribly interested in futzing around with it and resoldering things.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not sure where you get "mostly doa" because occasionally there is a bad one. Dont have to mess with anything as long as you have a proper charger to charge the cells separately/balanced. Problem isnt DOA units, its bad design, the protection doesn't work correctly.


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## snorf (Dec 21, 2015)

I can recommend the ebay seller mentioned in post #327 if you want fast shipment to the US. Still waiting forever on my GearBest order and wouldn't recommend them on that fact alone.


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

---


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

----


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*ChILd_ReBoRn*, the thing on your pictures doesn't look like 4x18650 battery case...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya that goes in the solarstorm x2 thread. And that's not even a real solarstorm x2, lattice bright leds not even cree, around 600 lumens output.


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

---


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

---


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

---


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Edit your posts and move your pictures to the proper thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/solarstorm-fandyfire-x2-844802.html


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## Topsi (Jan 29, 2016)

Can i use lithium with this?

If i have 4 cases and i put 2 cells in all of them and connect them with 4->1 cable i get connection like this with 7.4v? https://www.hooked-on-rc-airplanes.com/images/2s4p-lipo-battery-packs.jpg


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The cases are already 8.4V cases. Instead of using 4 cases, just use 2 cases because each holds 4 cells. End up with the picture your trying to do with a lot less extra.

And if you have quality cells (Panasonic or other brand name cell with ~3400mah) you would be better off and could use only one case.


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## llatsni (Feb 14, 2006)

I did all the mods in this thread and I think I'm having an uneven discharge issue.

I charged my batteries (Panasonics, 3400 unprotected) in an external charger to 4.20v.
Then I ran them for about an hour and checked the voltages:

#1 - 3.92
#2 - 4.05
#3 - 4.20
#4 - 4.06

I would have expected them to be discharging more evenly... or is this normal? Any thoughts?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Not normal behavior at all. Definitely an issue with the case and I don't believe your the first person to post this issue. (I haven't used mine enough to check.) 

-Garry


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## llatsni (Feb 14, 2006)

That's what I feared Garry.

I've cleaned the springs and stretched them out just on the off chance it a bad contact - I'll test again shortly with the battery order reversed - if it's still uneven in the same positions I'll probably just bin it, or gut it and turn it into a protected-only case :-(


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## llatsni (Feb 14, 2006)

I went a bit mental and completely re-made the bottom connectors, my effort isn't great but clearly it's better than what it came with as standard (or possibly, I damaged them).

Ran for another hour from 4.20v, made sure to push them well down onto the new connectors. Top springs were cleaned and stretched a bit:

#1 - 4.04
#2 - 4.06
#3 - 4.05
#4 - 4.06

Much better! I think I will buy some decent springs and do it right... or maybe just mod another case.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Good! Yeah, this case was really nothing but a disappointment! Manufacturers just don't see the need for a better case and how well it would sell. Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink! 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

His problem sounds like more than bottom connection. The side that has one only at 4.2 isn't possible unless the other cell wasn't charged to 4.2v. It will only unbalance each side, not a single cell. 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## FrenchFrog84 (Nov 30, 2016)

Hello, 
I bought the pack on Amazon few weeks ago. My biggest problem is that even with small vibrations (e.g. roots on cycling tracks) my pack simply stops and I have to wait like 15s or unplug/ replug it to make it work again... did you have this problem ? how could I solve that ? In these conditions I would not try to use it during a MTB trip  I use the scratch band to set it on my bike frame. I had not this problem with the cheap Pack that was sold with the light.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Try to wrap cells a bit so they would firmly get in and out of that case. This should prevent bouncing of cells inside the case and loosing connection. 
Do you use protected or unprotected cells?


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Anyway, this battery case is garbage. 
I bought it one month ago and got the S112A version.

Due to its parasitic drain I'm thinking about to resell or modifying it.


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## FrenchFrog84 (Nov 30, 2016)

Thank you ledoman, good idea. I don't know if they move laterally or vertically in the box, maybe both. I use unprotected Panasonic cells. I'll try your tip and wrap the cells with adhesive tape.


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

No comment...I must been very drunk yesterday.

Your question can be answered by little kids. haha:lol:

LOL!


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## FrenchFrog84 (Nov 30, 2016)

Yes but I find always interesting to share problems, I've read the topic through before buying this box and nobody complained about that ? I finally solved it putting a peace of bent telephone card (or equivalent) between the cells in each compartment.

About the parasitic drain, I just remove the bottom (around 30 screw turns, why did they choose a so long screw...?) and let the cells in the box. I think it is safe to store it like this, and I avoid the parasitic drain effect ?


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Nothing is safe! I had the "worst case szenario" with 2 AA batteries which got really hot and died with a "cooking sound" but this tops everything!

A Cheap Chinese Bike Light Nearly Burned Down this Rider?s House | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

Yep, this will avoid prasitic drain effect 'cos there is no contact to the prasitic driverboard.

I'm still thinking about how to make it an useable battery case with a new driverboard outside of the box.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

FrenchFrog84 said:


> About the parasitic drain, I just remove the bottom (around 30 screw turns, why did they choose a so long screw...?) and let the cells in the box. I think it is safe to store it like this, and I avoid the parasitic drain effect ?


That's how I'm using mine when not riding regularly. No parasitic discharge.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Here is my 2 penneth worth , I now use 2 of these cases with my pannasonic cgr e cells from laptops. The leads have been shortend with the usb removed. One mounted to the frame i use small magnets on the negative side of the battery to increase spring pressure to avoid any vibration problems. The other sits in my back pack with out magnets. All have a small amount of electrical contact grease on the terminals. Never had any issues , not really noticed any imbalance problems , but checked them last night after a 1h45mins ride. All within 0.05v each other. Cells always charged independently out of the case.


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

I know this thread is really old now. I actually like this case, expect for one big issue. I wish the contacts had springs on both ends, instead of only on the top cover. When I'm riding rough terrain on my rigid bike, the light will shut-off sometimes, and I think springs on both ends would take care of this. Of course I can turn it back on immediately, but this means I need to have a backup light to cover these situations. Looks like modding some springs onto the contacts would be impossible though.


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

I use some small 16mm dia magnets , about 1.5mm thick , put on the negative end of each battery.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Dual springs don't work well, springs in general suck unless the design compresses them flat when totals closed up.

Your actually better off soldering (and only real way to modify the case anyway, removing internal contacts is a task) brass buttons on the current springs or just use protected cells with button tops.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Using two lights is mandatory anyway. What might help a bit is to use some sticky tape and put it on the cells so they are hardly moving in the case. This might prevent it's bouncing in the case. I know, it's not the best, but it helps.

@bamba, using magnets make some addtional voltage drop as magnets have some noticeable resistance. This is not a problem if you have shorter rides, but for longer ones it might result in premature shutdown. It depends on light used, though.


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

bamba said:


> I use some small 16mm dia magnets , about 1.5mm thick , put on the negative end of each battery.


Yeah I was going to order 12x2mm ones to try and solve this. Does it solve the problem completely?


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Agree about having at least 2 lights... As they say, 2 is 1, and 1 is none! I'm usually riding with at least 2 active (Solarstorm X2 on the bar and Convoy S2+ on the helmet), plus one spare Convoy S2+ on the bar and something in my pocket (recently a Manker E14).



ledoman said:


> Using two lights is mandatory anyway. What might help a bit is to use some sticky tape and put it on the cells so they are hardly moving in the case. This might prevent it's bouncing in the case. I know, it's not the best, but it helps.
> 
> @bamba, using magnets make some addtional voltage drop as nagnets have some noticeable resistance. This is not a problem if you have shorter rides, but for longer ones it might result in premature shutdown. It depends on light used, though.


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## bamba (Dec 18, 2016)

Ride a full suspension bike will solve the problem 😁


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

bamba said:


> Ride a full suspension bike will solve the problem 😁


Been there, done that! It's just not for me though.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Not tried on the solarstorm box, but I found that springs on both battery terminals solved the problem of loosing the connection.


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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

Did anyone figure out which IC they are using for U2?

I'm drawing a schematic for the 6 cell version of this battery box and it would be much easier if I knew what IC U2 is.

Scott Novak


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

I switched from unprotected NCR18650GA cells to protected NCR18650B and the significant additional length of the protected cells prevents it losing connection on rough terrain. I'm very happy with the box and have two of them now. I also got a Y-cable to run two lights off one box should I choose.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

adept1 said:


> I switched from unprotected NCR18650GA cells to protected NCR18650B and the significant additional length of the protected cells prevents it losing connection on rough terrain. I'm very happy with the box and have two of them now. I also got a Y-cable to run two lights off one box should I choose.


Kudos. An insightful observation. The longer cells work better with a battery box, makes sense to me. Odd though that this problem never seems to crop up with using single cell torches. With torches usually it's the longer cells that tend to be more problematic.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> Kudos. An insightful observation. The longer cells work better with a battery box, makes sense to me. Odd though that this problem never seems to crop up with using single cell torches. With torches usually it's the longer cells that tend to be more problematic.


Thats simply due to design is all. Torches seem to be designed more towards unprotected or just flat top cells. At the very least they have much better springs in them. These battery cases are made as cheap as possible with no idea the vibration or impacts a bicycle sees during normal use. Not do cheap things like this see any ACTUAL testing beyond bench testing.

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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

*Are you people freakin' INSANE?*

I was making a schematic of the PWB in the 6-Cell version of this battery case and I wanted to see what, if any, differences there were between the protection circuits of the 4-Cell and the 6-Cell case. That's when I discovered that there isn't ANY reverse polarity protection whatsoever in the 4-Cell case!









If you reverse the polarity of one series string of cells it directly connects all four cells into a series loop which is effectively the same as SHORTING OUT EACH INDIVIDUAL Li-ION CELL! That will allow as much current as the internal resistance of the Li-Ion cell and the contact springs will allow. Something has got to give. Melted plastic, burning wire, flames, exploding, or venting cells, etc.

There are NO fuses to protect anything! That isn't just a bad idea, it's RECKLESS! If this resulted in a fire that burned down a house and someone died, the manufacturer could be looking at manslaughter charges in addition to a wrongful death lawsuit.

This ISN'T the dawn of the electronic age. We've had fuses for over a century!!! We've had power MOSFETs with less losses than a mechanical switch that can be used for reverse polarity protection for over 20 years!

People are concerning themselves with the minutia of unwanted power drain and less than ideal low voltage protection when they should be concerning themselves with the safety issues caused by the lack of reverse polarity protection.









To make matters worse, with the modification that some of you are doing, when you connect the series connection points of the two battery strings, only one cell polarity needs to be reversed and you have as much current flow as the internal resistance of the two Li-Ion cells will allow! Again, more melted plastic, burning wire, flames, exploding, or venting cells, etc. That is insanely reckless!

If you do decide to pursue that modification, you need to use some current limiting mechanism between the series connections of the Li-Ion cells.









Adding current limiting resistors will at least keep the current flow to a safe level if one of the cells is reversed.

But that still doesn't cure the problem if two cells in series are reversed.

If you want to actually do this properly there needs to be a separate low voltage protection circuit and reverse polarity protection for each series string of cells.

I seriously question the authenticity of the CE mark on the label. I did UL safety testing for six years so I have some idea of how the testing process works.

The safety testing process consists of simulating every possible fault that you can think of. To receive the safety approval there cannot be any fire, release of toxic chemicals or gasses, external shrapnel, or create a shock hazard.

Testing a battery case like this would require the highest discharge current Li-Ion cells available with one pair of cells installed in reverse. The test would need to be done at least three times WITHOUT any fire, release of toxic chemicals or gasses, external shrapnel, or creating a shock hazard in order to obtain safety approval from UL or any other safety agency. If you were very, very lucky, maybe all of the mayhem will be contained within the ABS plastic case and you might obtain safety approval. But I seriously doubt it.

The safety agencies don't care how total the destruction of the unit under test is as long as it fails without creating a safety hazard.

In the newer 6-Cell version they have attempted to add a reverse polarity protection circuit on each of the 3 series strings of cells. I'm not 100% sure that it is implemented correctly. I'll have to test it to be sure.

Scott Novak


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Welcome to buying cheap chinese crap.

Those of us including me that have done the mods have enough common sense and smart enough to pay attention to cell polarity. Adding polarity protection is beyond many and not exactly an easy task. The over discharge and drain issues are what that group of us worry about. We know what we are dealing with.

As for what happens when you reverse polarity.....havent managed to catch one on fire or vent a cell. Smokes the hell out of the board though and doesnt work anymore. Melts things pretty good too. Yeap did it just to see what happens. Now what happens if left to sit while shorted I did not test. You put the lid on wrong and you know by the time you get the screw half way down that its shorted, all the way down its smoking good by that point.

But really, its cheap chinese crap, did you expect any different. Well known for causing property damaging fires. Nothing is done, no agency seems to care.

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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

It's Chinese junk. Personally, they might make an OK power pack for a stationary light, never would trust one for riding.

Here's what I learned about CE when getting some products ready for the European market....

CE marking is very different from UL listing. The manufacturer applying the CE mark is "self-certifying". A manufacturer can apply the CE mark to anything they like. For electrical devices there are 3 primary point of compliance: Emissions, Immunity, and Safety. It is up the the manufacturer to do a risk assessment of the product for the compliance safety aspects of CE. The results of the risk assessment should then drive what type of testing and potential product alteration be done to comply with the safety requirements of CE. If a manufacturer has a risk assessment on file that says there is no safety risk, then the product can be CE marked whether or not it is truly safe.

The recourse for the European market for devices that are marked CE but not found to be in compliance is only that the non-compliant CE marked product will be stopped at the point of import. The consultant I worked with stated that only "caught" a tiny percentage of non-compliant product.

A legitimate manufacturer will do proper testing for emissions, immunity, and safety. They would correct or modify the product to be in compliance. They would maintain a technical file with their testing and assessment results. They would routinely audit their manufacturing process and test the product to ensure that everything was still in compliance. I'd be amazed if any of the bike lighting products coming from China meet this. The products that I was involved with getting CE marked incurred costs between $20k-$40k for the initial testing and assessments. I can not imagine a small Chinese operation selling things like bike lights for $10 are going to be able to amortize those type costs and still make some money.


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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

RAKC Ind said:


> Those of us including me that have done the mods have enough common sense and smart enough to pay attention to cell polarity.


Common sense? Smart enough?

No, this is pure arrogance to believe that you are not going to screw up, especially if you are on a night ride and the LVP circuit trips and you need to replace the cells in the dark while it's cold, raining, or snowing.

That is one of the reasons why the National Electrical Code exists and it has been adopted by most states in the union. It helps protect people from their own arrogance and stupidity.



RAKC Ind said:


> But really, its cheap chinese crap, did you expect any different. Well known for causing property damaging fires. Nothing is done, no agency seems to care.


Have any of you filed a complaint with the the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission?

FYI, there are in fact Chinese safety agencies. At least back in 2000, the Chinese government wouldn't accept UL approval and you had to send your electronics to a Chinese safety agency for testing and obtain safety certification from them if you wanted to sell your wares in China.

It's not uncommon for companies to say they have safety certification from a safety agency when they don't. It was problem enough for UL that they produced the UL tags with holographic printing to reduce the fraud.

I once had an AC outlet strip fail with a UL sticker on it. I opened it up and saw that their was NO way that it could have possibly passed safety testing. I showed it to a UL test engineer that was auditing my safety testing and UL launched an investigation. Their lawyers don't take kindly to people claiming safety certification when they haven't been given it.



RAKC Ind said:


> Adding polarity protection is beyond many and not exactly an easy task.


Any modifications are beyond the capability of most people. But anyone capable of performing the modifications listed in this discussion should be able to add reverse polarity protection.

At the very least add fusing, or cut the PWB foil to a very narrow trace to allow it to open as a fuse.

And instead of directly wiring the series connections of the cells together, those points can be connected together with current limiting resistors.

Scott Novak


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Scott Novak said:


> Common sense? Smart enough?
> 
> No, this is pure arrogance to believe that you are not going to screw up, especially if you are on a night ride and the LVP circuit trips and you need to replace the cells in the dark while it's cold, raining, or snowing.
> 
> ...


Has nothing to do with arrogance at all, its a matter of knowledge and experience.

Some live and breathe lithium for their battery purposes. Know better than to use cheap cells, know the risks and dangers. Use accordingly.

Personally I test these things to the point of flat out sacrificing one (perks of being cheap, can buy extra to watch melt).

Personally I have 15 yrs experience dealing with lithium based battery systems. The biggest threat of these cells is over charging unless dealing with cheap cells. Which I own 0 of anymore.

I have put protected 18650 cells in my pocket many times while getting ready to head out.

My case is never even opened at night because the main risk isnt just swapping cells. Its that the lid can go on any way and cause them to short.

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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

RAKC Ind said:


> Has nothing to do with arrogance at all, its a matter of knowledge and experience. Some live and breathe lithium for their battery purposes. Know better than to use cheap cells, know the risks and dangers.


That's exactly the arrogance that I'm talking about. As the saying goes, **** happens. If anything can go wrong it will, and at the most inopportune time. You just can't predict what is going to happen, no matter how well you prepare or think that you have the situation under control.

I'll also say that electrical engineers and electronic technicians can be some of the most arrogant when it comes to safety around electricity. Many seem think that because they have an understanding of electricity that they are immune to it's dangers.

Scott Novak


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

When it comes to protection for cheap battery boxes likely a good idea just to use protected cells. Anyway, never heard of anyone starting a fire with a battery box but I suppose it can happen. Hard to believe someone can misload all four cells but I suppose it's possible. Just last night I misloaded my new torch. Most torches have simple reverse polarity protection built into the driver so it doesn't cost much to include protection.


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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway, never heard of anyone starting a fire with a battery box but I suppose it can happen. Hard to believe someone can misload all four cells but I suppose it's possible.


Misloading all four cells isn't the safety issue. Reversing one series string of cells puts all four cells in a series loop which is effectively the same as shorting all four cells at the same time. The question is what fails first? Does a circuit foil fail soon enough to prevent the cells from venting or exploding? Do the cells have enough internal resistance to limit the current enough that a circuit foil won't fail and still allow the pressure inside the cells to build until they vent or explode? And what if someone has crap Chinese cells that don't vent and instead explode? Will the battery box seals be good enough that pressure inside the box can build high enough for the box to explode? You don't know until you try it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Note that the new 2S3P 6 cell box appears to be screwed up even worse than this 2S2P box. The power MOSFETs that they added to each series string of cells to protect against reverse polarity are not working as intended, but in fact may still protect against reverse polarity by exploding.

While the low voltage protection circuit may work for the 8.4V output, the power for the 5V USB convertor is taken BEFORE the low voltage and over current protection circuit. Power for the battery voltage indicator is also taken BEFORE the low voltage protection circuit.

This of course means that the batteries can continue to be drained as long as the 5V convertor and battery voltage indicator will operate.

I've made a rough schematic of the 6 cell box circuits and will post the cleaned up version soon. But I still haven't been able to determine which IC they are using for U2, the voltage indicator circuit. All that I can show at the moment is which components are connected to which terminal numbers on the IC.

Scott Novak


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## Micknfred (Apr 13, 2018)

*Solarstorm case*

Hi Ledoman awesome post thanks for sharing!

I am hoping you can provide insight into my challenge with Solarstorm case.

My case only works with 1 of my 3 sets of 18650 batteries. I have a set of 18650 that came with my light, they are generic Chinese. These work in the case. However have purchased a set of good NCR Li Ion plus another set of generic. The Case wont work with the NCR or other Generics. Only the blue ones. All the 12 cells appear exactly the same physically. I suspect that the discharging protection maybe causing this? See the attached pics for more info.

Why would this be the case?

Thanks in advance!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

What do you mean doesnt work? 

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## Micknfred (Apr 13, 2018)

The Solarstorm case wont power up with the other 18650 batteries.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

are they charged? are they balanced? those are the only reasons besides incorrect installation they wont work but others will.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Micknfred said:


> Hi Ledoman awesome post thanks for sharing!
> 
> I am hoping you can provide insight into my challenge with Solarstorm case.
> 
> ...


To me yours cells looks like salvaged from some other usage. None have protection circuit. Get some Digital Multimeter and measure voltage of each. I suspect some might be dead or something. Come back to us with measurments.
Another issue you might face is the springs are to short and doesn't make contact. If you have some magnets or something to make cells longer.


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## Micknfred (Apr 13, 2018)

Yep done all the basic stuff. Have checked the batteries are even voltage with meter. Have drained them 50% also to see if that helped. I assume there may be a difference between battery chemistry. IE LiPo to LiIon ?? Others must have experienced this issue?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

No the chemistry is the same, there must be some other stuff going on. Do the panasonic cells have good contact to the springs?


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## Micknfred (Apr 13, 2018)

Yes the contact is good at both ends. The batteries appear to be identical physically. ? Reading the original article I wonder if the discharge protection circuit could be cutting it out. ?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you are sure, that pana cells are OK and el-cheapo are crap, the PCB usually cuts voltage and current under load (over voltage, under voltage, over current protection). If it doesn't cut based on voltage values, it cuts the current. You may check the light power requirements.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MK96, good point! I think cells might be wornt up. The voltage might be good but instantly drop on higher load. So Micknfred tell us about your light.

Looking to the pictures I would get rid of those cells anway and buy new good proven stuff.


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## Scott Novak (Mar 2, 2013)

After installing the suspect Li-Ion cells, BEFORE connecting them to the light, use a voltmeter to measure the voltage at the power connector terminals.

If the voltage appears normal at the connector terminals, connect the light to the battery box but do NOT switch on the light. Check to see if the LED voltage indicators light up.

If the LED indicators light up, then switch on the light. If the light doesn't turn on, check to see if the LED voltage indicators still light up.

If the LED voltage indicators no longer light up, as Ledoman suggested, it's likely that the Li-Ion cells have excessively high internal resistance and that when a load is connected, the output voltage of the Li-Ion cells drops so low that it triggers the low voltage protection circuit and disconnects the Li-Ion cells from the output.

Scott Novak


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## mzapata1975 (2 mo ago)

Scott Novak said:


> After installing the suspect Li-Ion cells, BEFORE connecting them to the light, use a voltmeter to measure the voltage at the power connector terminals.
> 
> If the voltage appears normal at the connector terminals, connect the light to the battery box but do NOT switch on the light. Check to see if the LED voltage indicators light up.
> 
> ...


Hi Scott, could you post schematic please?


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