# New LB Flyweight Rims



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I was waiting for Light Bicycle to ship my 29er rims (22mm, 360g) and happened to notice on the website that they now have a "Flyweight" version at 280g. I got them to change the order so now my wheelset should be 1139g! The new version costs $100 more per rim but has the same weight limit and implies equal strength and stiffness.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> implies equal strength and stiffness.


Only a fool would believe that.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Better materials and construction technique. Could be possible.
Same weight limit. Same warranty period. Double the crash replacement period.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Too expensive for a no-name brand. Too narrow for today's standards. And no anti-burp bump.


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Only a fool would believe that.


No kidding.

OP, I hope you are a flyweight as well.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Nope, 170lbs (the weight limit is 220). I'll post here if they break but don't hold your breath. They're going on a cross country bike where the real limitations are tires and handlebar height. I don't plan to get rowdy on it. My trail bike has the 27.5" non-flyweight version of these rims and has been going strong for years including some pro enduro wins on mellow courses.

As for the price for no-name rims, well these are about the lightest (or the lightest?) rims out there regardless of name. I was interested in Nox Skylines but they're 340g and $450. Also, with an American office now and 6+ years of selling rims to Americans I wouldn't call LB a no-name. Chinese for sure but they have built a brand and reputation unlike the ebay rims.


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Pro wins? Someone should be giving you wheels shouldn't they?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

No, winning pro races doesn't guarantee a rim sponsor. When I saw these rims I wanted them for my Spark RC SL build that is happening asap. I could have sent Light Bicycle a sponsorship proposal and asked for rims in exchange for exposure. They might have even remembered my name from 5 years ago when I gave them design input and feedback for their first DH rim in exchange for a few pairs. Instead I just paid for them like a normal person. Now that you mention it I guess I should have tried but, eh I've been working a lot lately and can afford the $600. This way they're shipping immediately instead of an extra week or two of sponsorship negotiation that would likely end in a 50% discount in exchange for a bunch of Instagram mentions.

Speaking of sponsors, shout out to 9point8 for sending a 125mm Fall Line for this build. A sub 22lb (maybe sub 21?) X-large FS bike with a 5" dropper will turn some heads!


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I won't doubt that these are intriguing and a possible idea for a race-day-only wheelset, but you don't decrease the weight significantly using less material and not have some sort of tradeoff. Just because it has the same weight limit does not mean it has the same strength and stiffness.


----------



## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

At 170 pounds I'd be willing to give them a go (as long as you really are riding XC and not hucking etc.). I'm closer to 200 and have been riding the standard version for about two seasons - they've been great. CX rays laced to Tune hubs (another component people warned me about). Stiff, haven't had to true them. Carbon tech is improving (frames are getting lighter and lighter - see the new Spec HT). And LB seems pretty good with backing up legit breaks. 1139g wheel set! You'll definitely notice that.


----------



## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> Also, with an American office now and 6+ years of selling rims to Americans I wouldn't call LB a no-name.


I don't own any LB wheels but I'd agree.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

You've got me thinking about a new wheel build now - damn it!


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I wonder how much the weight would be for the 27.5 flyweight when they decide to make it. It also makes me think of upgrading my wheelset from regular 360 gr LB's


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

doccoraje said:


> I wonder how much the weight would be for the 27.5 flyweight when they decide to make it. It also makes me think of upgrading my wheelset from regular 360 gr LB's


I considered the regular 27.5" version of these rims "trail" or even "all mountain" and have used them as such on my 5010. Even though LB doesn't say so I consider the Flyweight version XC only. I'm a weight weenie through and through but I won't be replacing the rims on my 5010 cuz I just wouldn't feel comfortable pounding a 280g rim the way I do a 360g rim.


----------



## JD_OC (Mar 29, 2005)

I was just chatting with LB and asked them if they plan on making a 650B version of the flyweight. They said yes, its in testing now and should be available next month!

As a 135 lb flyweight myself, this is great news. I wonder what the weight will be. 260 grams??


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

doccoraje said:


> I wonder how much the weight would be for the 27.5 flyweight when they decide to make it. It also makes me think of upgrading my wheelset from regular 360 gr LB's


I hope they do, they would be the perfect wheel set for my Norco Olve ...


----------



## splitendz (Nov 13, 2015)

As a fellow weight weenie... sounds great!


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

JD_OC said:


> I was just chatting with LB and asked them if they plan on making a 650B version of the flyweight. They said yes, its in testing now and should be available next month!
> 
> As a 135 lb flyweight myself, this is great news. I wonder what the weight will be. 260 grams??


Should indeed shave off 20-40 grams/rim and inner width is plenty for 2.25-2.35 tires :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

if anyone gets these rims, please report back.


----------



## wjphillips (Oct 13, 2008)

Jayem said:


> I won't doubt that these are intriguing and a possible idea for a race-day-only wheelset, but you don't decrease the weight significantly using less material and not have some sort of tradeoff. Just because it has the same weight limit does not mean it has the same strength and stiffness.


It is possible to make something lighter without removing material.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I got the rims today. 286 and 288g for 28 hole. I was thinking about the durability issue and remembered the spindly Mavic 217 rims I used for racing, jumping, and all around MTBing back in the 90s. These can't be any weaker than that.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Damn that's light.


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> I got the rims today. 286 and 288g for 28 hole. I was thinking about the durability issue and remembered the spindly Mavic 217 rims I used for racing, jumping, and all around MTBing back in the 90s. These can't be any weaker than that.


Weight and pictures of the complete wheel set


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

My Carbon-Ti hubs should arrive 6/20. I'll get them built up asap and post pics.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

wjphillips said:


> It is possible to make something lighter without removing material.


drugs are bad.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> My Carbon-Ti hubs should arrive 6/20. I'll get them built up asap and post pics.


Cool, looking forward. Like I said, intriguing as a race-day wheelset.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> My Carbon-Ti hubs should arrive 6/20. I'll get them built up asap and post pics.


Looking forward to pics.


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Hmm, do I need to make another attempt at a sub kilo 29er wheelset? Last time I ended up at 1062g using 305g rims.


----------



## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Definitely keen to see how this turns out. 1150g for a 29er disc wheelset in that width is very impressive.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

wjphillips said:


> It is possible to make something lighter without removing material.


Yes, using T1000 carbon fiber is one way. This is how Schmolke has done it for years on their TLO line. I have several of their products and they have been bomb proof. The down side is its expense.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

That's sort of what LB is doing here. Instead of only T700 like their normal rims the Flyweights use T700 & T800. The weight reduction comes from not needing to use as much of it, so "removing material".


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

xc71 said:


> Yes, using T1000 carbon fiber is one way. This is how Schmolke has done it for years on their TLO line. I have several of their products and they have been bomb proof. The down side is its expense.


How much does a pound of T1000 weigh vs. a pound of T700?


----------



## nunokas (Aug 12, 2014)

And when i thought bike ahead "the rim" was light enough...
Ahaha, just kiddin, there's no such thing like "light enough":devil:


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> How much does a pound of T1000 weigh vs. a pound of T700?


My guess is that a *pound* of T1000 weighs the same as a *pound* of T700 
Sorry, couldn't resist :thumbsup:


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

doccoraje said:


> My guess is that a *pound* of T1000 weighs the same as a *pound* of T700
> Sorry, couldn't resist :thumbsup:


:lol:


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Wait that can't possibly be right. That's like saying a ton of gold weighs the same as a ton of feathers.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

I ordered a pair of these rims yesterday. I'm 155 lbs., run 2.1"-2.35" tires between 22 and 30 psi, and ride mostly XC. When it gets rough I use my 27.5+ wheels. I have broken two components in about 20 years of riding, one that I got about 15 years of use out of and the other that I smashed into the ground a couple of times. I have never broken a wheel. I figure I am probably a good candidate for these rims.


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I would love to see a version of a 29er asymmetrical rim with 24/30mm width coming in around 330g.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Here they are:















Weights are:
Wheelset- 1149
Front rim- 287
Rear rim- 288
Front hub- 95
Rear hub- 185
Spokes- 277 (56 300mm CX-Rays)
Nipples- 17 (56 12mm Sapim alloy)

Here's the complete bike







19.96lbs with the Thunder Burt tires. 20.55lbs with Maxxis Aspen 2.25"s. Yes, that's a 5" travel 9point8 seatpost.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> I would love to see a version of a 29er asymmetrical rim with 24/30mm width coming in around 330g.


DUKE Lucky Jack | DUKE, la roue artisanale Haut de gamme


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Very nice. They make a setback clamp for that seatpost, if you need one.


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Andy13 said:


> They make a setback clamp for that seatpost, if you need one.


Looks to me like he needs a "setforward"!

Wheels look great. Weight seems fantastic!


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yeah, love this frame but the seat tube angle is too slack on the XL. It puts a tall guy like me too far back for steep climbs unless you put the seat way forward. It works but looks awkward. It could use a touch more reach also to work with shorter stems. I replaced the stock 90mm with a 60mm and it handles sweet but I'd like to be a little more stretched out. Eh, how much revolution can you expect in the XC world in a single product cycle? I bet the next one will have exactly these changes.


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Doh!


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

That is a lovely bike man .


----------



## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

Currently have Carbon-ti with XR331 650b for my gravel bike.

Been thinking about a 29er set also. These could be the ticket.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Love/Hate threads like this. Love the new tech. Hate that my current wheelset now seems like a boat anchor @ ~1400g.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

phlegm said:


> Love/Hate threads like this. Love the new tech. Hate that my current wheelset now seems like a boat anchor @ ~1400g.


I dislike threads like this. Period. His bike is an XL, which means he's a big guy. Not only he went for the lightest "inexpensive" carbon rims (made by an unknown manufacturer) he could find, but he also chose the 28H version. I like light bikes, but I hate it when people take weight weenienes to these extremes.

Even the girls in the Ghost Factory Racing Team, who are 110-135lbs wet and have the lightest bikes in the World Cup circuit, ride heavier wheels with 32 spokes.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

So far these wheels have been perfect. After a short ride I retensioned. A few long rides later I put the tensiometer back on and nothing had changed so I've stopped thinking about them. They're just normal wheels that happen to be light. I push them as hard as the Aspen Exo 2.2 tires allow. Keep in mind I'm a 170lb pro DH/Enduro racer in Breckenridge so every ride has some rough downhills.

My advice is build them with a tensiometer and bladed spokes so you can be really precise about tension and windup, then enjoy them in the style of a XC/Trail wheelset, not All-Mountain/Enduro. I'm tempted to put 2.3" Ikons on this bike cuz the handling is so good but then I think I'd be pushing all the parts, including the frame, harder than they're intended. Besides, that's what my 5010 is for.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> So far these wheels have been perfect. After a short ride I retensioned. A few long rides later I put the tensiometer back on and nothing had changed so I've stopped thinking about them. They're just normal wheels that happen to be light. I push them as hard as the Aspen Exo 2.2 tires allow. Keep in mind I'm a 170lb pro DH/Enduro racer in Breckenridge so every ride has some rough downhills.
> 
> My advice is build them with a tensiometer and bladed spokes so you can be really precise about tension and windup, then enjoy them in the style of a XC/Trail wheelset, not All-Mountain/Enduro. I'm tempted to put 2.3" Ikons on this bike cuz the handling is so good but then I think I'd be pushing all the parts, including the frame, harder than they're intended. Besides, that's what my 5010 is for.


haha, no doubt. I'm still rocking those same carbon rims I rode on my Enduro that time, relaced 2 or 3x and now serving as my XC race rims on my 29er XC rig, which to me is pretty incredible, given how much I abused them at parks, DH racing and everything else. Some of this stuff is seriously tough as long as you use enough pressure to avoid rim strikes. I was alluding to the fact that something like these flyweights would be great race-day wheels you'd slap on there for the race. Maybe next year or something for me, but the idea seems legit.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> I dislike threads like this. Period. His bike is an XL, which means he's a big guy. Not only he went for the lightest "inexpensive" carbon rims (made by an unknown manufacturer) he could find, but he also chose the 28H version. I like light bikes, but I hate it when people take weight weenienes to these extremes.


What unknown manufacturer? What is inexpensive about these rims?


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Hey Guys,

I work out of the Canadian office for Light Bicycle North America and have been riding these rims for this season, and have been working with a few other athletes testing the product. I've used the previous generation of this rim, and on the trail, the Flyweight version feels AT LEAST as stiff. None of the test riders have broken these rims which is fairly impressive as the XC courses in British Columbia are no joke. We've had Pro Men's podiums and strong results with the rims at XC Marathon races. One of the riders on these rims has won numerous National titles for XC and can podium Pro Enduro events, he's not you're typical lightweight XC guy, he's ridiculously fast down and rides advanced trails.

*Anti-Burp comment* - The rims have a 22mm internal width and I've been running 26-28 in the back with 2.25" tires and 3-4psi less up front. We have not had any noticeable burps, but for the most part we've been using them for XC races which isn't as hard on them for burping. I've created false bead seat bumps by using Gorilla tape in the past with some success, but I didn't bother doing that with these rims and didn't run into any issues with a lightweight strip of tape in the center.
*
Tires and ride testing* - We've run a variety of tires in various widths from 1.9-2.3" on these, Schwalber Thunderburts, Rocket Ron, Furious Fred, Maxxis Ardent Race, Beavers, Minions, Ikons, Specialized Control's and Captains, as well as a few others. I removed the valve core and was able to set up tires with a high volume floor pump. I've dropped the pressure down to 20 PSI on the back which is farily low for a 175 pound guy with a 2.2" tire on a 22i rim in order to test the impact resistance on double black diamond trails. I've bottomed out the rims pretty hard a few times, enough to shred 2 EXO casing Maxxis tires but the rims were fine. Obviously that kind of riding isn't recommended for these, but I wanted to see what they can handle. So far we still have not broken one. They don't feel as stable as wide rims when in really rough terrain at high speed (as you might expect), but this is partially due to the tires we were running. The rotational weight is an unbeleivable advantage, I didn't think it would make as much difference as it did. I'm stronger on the downs than the climbs compared to most advanced cross country riders and these really helped level the odds in my favor.

*Construction* - We used the same RM29C06 mold, but that's where the similarities end, the entire construction is very different. So is it at least as strong and as stiff? The answer is a firm YES. We've experimented with T800 for years as it has some unique properties, but in most of the rims it became too stiff and the rims cracked easier. The new Pre-Preg has a much lower Fiber Areal Weight and we can create a more adjustable layup. The stress between layers is reduced and the T800 can be used without creating the stiffness problem we had in the past. Another thing we did to shave weight was change the nipple bed layup and build up the layers differently depending on what the spoke hole drilling is going to be. The layup takes quite a bit longer to perform.

*Weight* - The average weight is 280 grams. Often 28h rims are slightly heavier than the 32h version due to the hole drillings. We build more 32h rims in production runs, so it's often lighter to choose the lightest 32h rims from a batch than try to go 28h. A 28h wheelset is slightly lighter overall, but not as much as you'd think.

*What's next?* - We'll be making the 27.5" version of this rim next. We know a lot of riders are asking for a wider version with this technology and we will keep looking at that as well.

*Inventory - *We have some 32h and 28h rims in stock at the Chinese location. 32h rims are in transit to the Canadian as well as the USA location and should arrive within the next 7-10 days I'd expect. For those wanting higher end reliable complete wheelsets without going too extreme on shaving hub weight, we build on DT240's from the Chinese office, and those sets are coming in at 1250 grams. From the North American office, The i9 hubs are a good choice and they come in around ~1275 grams.

*Graphics *- The North American offices are stocking the rims with a glossy black subtle waterslide graphic and a waterslide LB logo in Blue at the valve hole. You could apply an aftermarket vinyl on top if you want some flash, but the stock graphics are not removeable. We went this way to keep the weight as low as possible. The North American office can special order rims if you wanted something different (28h or a different graphic) laced to i9 or Onyx hubs, or the Chinese office can manufacture something from scratch for you.

Here are a few pictures of the wheelsets:


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

sfer1 said:


> I dislike threads like this. Period. His bike is an XL, which means he's a big guy. Not only he went for the lightest "inexpensive" carbon rims (made by an unknown manufacturer) he could find, but he also chose the 28H version. I like light bikes, but I hate it when people take weight weenienes to these extremes.
> 
> Even the girls in the Ghost Factory Racing Team, who are 110-135lbs wet and have the lightest bikes in the World Cup circuit, ride heavier wheels with 32 spokes.


Unknown?

Seriously?

LB has been "known" here for a couple years now.


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Can't wait for the 27.5 version! At 160 pounds these are going to be great!


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Davide said:


> Can't wait for the 27.5 version! At 160 pounds these are going to be great!


Same here, even though my 360 gr standard version is holding up very well after three years of abuse!


----------



## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

What's the max PSI for these rims? Could you run, say, a tubeless 28c tire?


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alexdi said:


> What's the max PSI for these rims? Could you run, say, a tubeless 28c tire?


40psi is the recommended max. These have a hookless profile, I'd stick with a clincher for 28c tires.


----------



## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

light bicycle said:


> 40psi is the recommended max. These have a hookless profile, I'd stick with a clincher for 28c tires.


https://www.lightbicycle.com/Road-b...-aero-clincher-road-disc-brake-available.html

You offer a hookless version of that rim. What difference? Is the bead weaker on "mountain" rims?


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I'd definitely be interested in a wider 27.5 version of these. At 115lbs I've never broken anything on any of my bikes... regular components are way overbuilt for me. 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Unknown?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> LB has been "known" here for a couple years now.


Yes, seriously. While it's true that most carbon parts are made in China and Taiwan nowadays, most of the brand name products were originally designed by non-slave workers in Europe or North American. All you know about LB is that "their" rims come from China. They're designed by only God knows who and made under only God knows what quality control procedures. Most of their rims have anti-burp bumps. These don't. Some of them are asymmetric. Others aren't. My guess is these guys are like New Ultimate: they don't actually make anything themselves, but shop around Chinese manufacturers to find rims to put their brand on. That's why "their" rims have different and inconstant characteristics, like they're made by different manufacturers. Not much different than buying carbon rims from eBay sellers.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> Yes, seriously. While it's true that most carbon parts are made in China and Taiwan nowadays, most of the brand name products were originally designed by non-slave workers in Europe or North American. All you know about LB is that "their" rims come from China. They're designed by only God knows who and made under only God knows what quality control procedures. Most of their rims have anti-burp bumps. These don't. Some of them are asymmetric. Others aren't. My guess is these guys are like New Ultimate: they don't actually make anything themselves, but shop around Chinese manufacturers to find rims to put their brand on. That's why "their" rims have different and inconstant characteristics, like they're made by different manufacturers. Not much different than buying carbon rims from eBay sellers.


Lol, you are ridiculous. I trust LB and Nextie more than the flavor-of-the-month US carbon rim manufacturer that pops up and at least as much as Envy and Easton or whomever else are doing it. What do you think is so special that they are doing? Do you even know who makes most of the carbon rims out there? Who has been doing it the longest or who has the technical know-how? Your claims are ridiculous. Show me proof my Nextie rims from 4 years ago are poor. I've done everything from DH races to endurance XC with several relaces as I re-tasked them to different disciplines, and they are still going strong, as well as my 3 other sets.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

sfer1 said:


> Yes, seriously. While it's true that most carbon parts are made in China and Taiwan nowadays, most of the brand name products were originally designed by non-slave workers in Europe or North American. All you know about LB is that "their" rims come from China. They're designed by only God knows who and made under only God knows what quality control procedures. Most of their rims have anti-burp bumps. These don't. Some of them are asymmetric. Others aren't. My guess is these guys are like New Ultimate: they don't actually make anything themselves, but shop around Chinese manufacturers to find rims to put their brand on. That's why "their" rims have different and inconstant characteristics, like they're made by different manufacturers. Not much different than buying carbon rims from eBay sellers.


Guys, I have a great idea! Let's ask the Light Bicycle North America guy who is now on this thread what he knows about your comments!

Light Bicycle Dude:
Are your products designed by non-slave workers?
Are they designed by only God knows who and made under only God knows what quality control procedures?
Does Light Bicycle actually make anything themselves, or do they just shop around Chinese manufacturers to find rims to put their brand on?


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Don't forget to ask him, if the anti-burp bumps are unnecessary, why do all the other "LB" rims have them? Why do the rims made by high-end European manufacturers have them?

What I know for sure is that for 360 euros, which isn't a lot more money, one can get a Duke Lucky Jack rim, designed and made in France, and riden by Julien Absalon (GOAT) and Jolanda Neff (youngest winner of the World Cup overall), not tested by some undisclosed Canadian rider. BTW, the only Canadians who are competitive in the World Cup circuit are female: Pendrel and Batty. Neither of them is riding these rims though.

I'll tell you what this thread is all about: people trying to convince themselves that a $269 rim designed and made by an unknown Chinese manufacturer can be even lighter but equally reliable as a $850 rim made by Bike Ahead Composites in Germany. And that a wheelset built with these uber light Chinese rims and only 28 light spokes per wheel won't feel like a wet noodle even if you are >175lbs. In a reality not altered by weight weenies' delusions, this would be a wheelset one would build for a <130lbs girl, not a >175lbs guy.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

sfer1 said:


> Don't forget to ask him, if the anti-burp bumps are unnecessary, why do all the other "LB" rims have them? Why do the rims made by high-end European manufacturers have them?


Great idea! Rather than speculating about things we know nothing about, let's ask him!


----------



## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

This is a particularly funny thread with the last few comments by someone commenting on LB rims that has no clue what they're talking about or just being a troll. Hard to believe you haven't heard of LB or Nextie if you read mtbr. There are a ton of people who have multiple wheelsets and rims that are great including road, CX, and MTB (myself included). 
How about we get back to the point of discussing this new cool option from LB instead of arguing over something that has been beat to death in the China Carbon wheel threads?....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

bikeguy0 said:


> There are a ton of people who have multiple wheelsets and rims that are great including road, CX, and MTB (myself included).


99,99% of them are probably riding 370-450g rims, not this new option that's even lighter than rims that cost 3 times as much and are designed and made by highly qualified German workers using the best available materials.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

sfer1 said:


> 99,99% of them are probably riding 370-450g rims, not this new option that's even lighter than rims that cost 3 times as much and are designed and made by highly qualified German workers using the best available materials.


And? When these prove out, those rims that cost 3 times as much are going to look like a bargain? Those Germans are more qualified? The materials are as good? Your posts smack of elitism.


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

sfer1 said:


> Don't forget to ask him, if the anti-burp bumps are unnecessary, why do all the other "LB" rims have them? Why do the rims made by high-end European manufacturers have them?
> 
> What I know for sure is that for 360 euros, which isn't a lot more money, one can get a Duke Lucky Jack rim, designed and made in France, and riden by Julien Absalon (GOAT) and Jolanda Neff (youngest winner of the World Cup overall), not tested by some undisclosed Canadian rider. BTW, the only Canadians who are competitive in the World Cup circuit are female: Pendrel and Batty. Neither of them is riding these rims though.
> 
> I'll tell you what this thread is all about: people trying to convince themselves that a $269 rim designed and made by an unknown Chinese manufacturer can be even lighter but equally reliable as a $850 rim made by Bike Ahead Composites in Germany. And that a wheelset built with these uber light Chinese rims and only 28 light spokes per wheel won't feel like a wet noodle even if you are >175lbs. In a reality not altered by weight weenies' delusions, this would be a wheelset one would build for a <130lbs girl, not a >175lbs guy.


The fact that I am a <130lb rider is precisely why I'm interested in these. In fact I wish there were other parts out there designed for light riders. I don't need cranks/bars/seatposts etc. that are intended for people 2x my weight or more either... it's all just extra weight that I have to push up the hills in the end. Think about it this way: a 120lb rider on a 30lb bike is pushing a quarter of their body weight up every hill, while a 180lb rider on the same bike is pushing a sixth. There is a place for kit like this, so good on LB for manufacturing it.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> What I know for sure is that for 360 euros, which isn't a lot more money, one can get a Duke Lucky Jack rim


Never heard of it. Must be an unknown manufacturer.

Have heard of:
DT Swiss
Azonic
Mavic
Easton
Nobl
Nox
Envy
WTB
Bontrager
Light Bicycles
Nextie
Carbon Fan
XM Carbon Speed
Roval
Sun
HED


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> 99,99% of them are probably riding 370-450g rims, not this new option that's even lighter than rims that cost 3 times as much and are designed and made by highly qualified German workers using the best available materials.


I don't want it designed by Germany, I want it designed by Toyota, so it's reliable.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Jayem said:


> I don't want it designed by Germany, I want it designed by Toyota, so it's reliable.


Hmmm...my 2016 Toyota Tacoma is at the dealership right now due to a safety recall.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...d-possible-loss-of-control-of-vehicle.488536/


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Stonerider said:


> Hmmm...my 2016 Toyota Tacoma is at the dealership right now due to a safety recall.
> 
> https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...d-possible-loss-of-control-of-vehicle.488536/


80s Toyota.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

While Benz's are spontaneously burning to the ground across the globe, yeah you make an excellent argument.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Jayem said:


> 80s Toyota.


:thumbsup:


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

sfer1 said:


> That's the ugliest saddle I've ever seen.
> 
> I looks like a cheap plastic BMX saddle I had as a kid.


And this was about a German designed and made saddle, Tune Komvor, oops!


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

alexdi said:


> https://www.lightbicycle.com/Road-b...-aero-clincher-road-disc-brake-available.html
> 
> You offer a hookless version of that rim. What difference? Is the bead weaker on "mountain" rims?


Making the rims hookless is a bit stronger, but they can't retain tires well enough at higher pressures. We make 2 versions of that rim as some customers are comfortable running lower pressures with wider tires.


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

sfer1 said:


> Don't forget to ask him, if the anti-burp bumps are unnecessary, why do all the other "LB" rims have them? Why do the rims made by high-end European manufacturers have them?
> 
> What I know for sure is that for 360 euros, which isn't a lot more money, one can get a Duke Lucky Jack rim, designed and made in France, and riden by Julien Absalon (GOAT) and Jolanda Neff (youngest winner of the World Cup overall), not tested by some undisclosed Canadian rider. BTW, the only Canadians who are competitive in the World Cup circuit are female: Pendrel and Batty. Neither of them is riding these rims though.
> 
> I'll tell you what this thread is all about: people trying to convince themselves that a $269 rim designed and made by an unknown Chinese manufacturer can be even lighter but equally reliable as a $850 rim made by Bike Ahead Composites in Germany. And that a wheelset built with these uber light Chinese rims and only 28 light spokes per wheel won't feel like a wet noodle even if you are >175lbs. In a reality not altered by weight weenies' delusions, this would be a wheelset one would build for a <130lbs girl, not a >175lbs guy.


As I mentioned earlier, but to elaborate, one of the test riders on these rims has won the Pan American games, has an Olympic medal, and was the National champion 3 or 4 times. He has been on the pro podium more than a few times this year. He can podium Enduro races at high levels as well, he's not a typical XC rider, that's why we have him riding these hard for us, not as a sponsored rider, as a product tester.

He has not reported any significant burping on the rims. Yes we have bead seat bumps on many of our rims for some extra protection. The mold we used to create the Flyweight model was one of the first carbon 29" rims made in China, we did not have bead seat bumps at the time. The reason we chose this mold was because it was symmetric and already lightweight. The symmetric mold design reacted better on impact tests when we used T800 in the layup so it made sense to start out this way.

I've personally ridden dozens and dozens of carbon wheels, these feel reasonably stiff for their width. The reason is due to the T800 construction. As reference, I'm 175 pounds, riding the 28h version front and back, and have won local enduro series events and the odd XC race in recent years. I'm not a pro rider, but I'm no hack.

The rims are averaging 280 grams +/-10g for 32h and maybe 8g heavier or so for the 28h version.

We manufacture tens of thousands of rims each year, I would hope that would start to qualify us as "known"


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

life behind bars said:


> And? When these prove out, those rims that cost 3 times as much are going to look like a bargain? Those Germans are more qualified? The materials are as good? Your posts smack of elitism.


First off, I'm not knocking other manufacturers, least of all the Germans! But the point should be made that we are certainly well qualified to make carbon rims, in fact that's all we make! When I first got involved with Light Bicycle we were selling water bottle cages and frames from other factories, that was the first thing we put a stop to, let's focus on carbon rims 100% and not get caught up in the "me too" products.

Our lead engineer used to work for one of the "big brands" developing new technology for carbon full suspension frames and carbon rims etc. We now have a team of engineers and and technicians working full time testing and doing product development in house. We are constantly improving our manufacturing techniques, raw material and leveraging the experience of a team of employees who have remained with us for 5 years and counting.


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

ohmygato said:


> Guys, I have a great idea! Let's ask the Light Bicycle North America guy who is now on this thread what he knows about your comments!
> 
> Light Bicycle Dude:
> Are your products designed by non-slave workers?
> ...


I leave for 5 days, and now we're talking about slave labor!? The working conditions are very good, we have really high employee retention and pay well above average wages. Not all factories are like this obviously, I've been to a dozen factories and have a pretty good feel for how things go in China and Taiwan. I couldn't partner with a company or have made life altering business decisions if working conditions at Light Bicycle were not exceptionally good. I travel to the factory often and stay there for 2 weeks at a time so I know quite a few of the workers really well. One of the trips I was there we took pictures of some of the workers (some were too shy) and posted them on the LB global website. If you ever go to visit the factory, you'll recognize them. I'm headed back there in September if you want a personal tour 

It's somewhat funny you mentioned the Quality control thing because we've struggled from having "too much" quality control procedures. We've had some finishing workers struggle to adapt to our processes because the last places they worked were not so strict. Some workers were so used to putting out higher numbers whereas we reward quality over quantity.

Yes, we make the rims ourselves. We own a new 4 story building with all of our sales, customer service, wheel building etc, and our factory is a separate building that we rent but it is 100% operated by us. When we started up we didn't make everything ourselves. I know it gets confusing as many of the direct sales brands are not actually manufacturers (or they make a few products but the majority is outsourced). That is not the case with us. We don't sell to domestic trading companies, we sell direct to consumers or to reputable brands overseas.

We released a factory video a year and a half ago showing the factory and our old office but some people still say we are not making the rims. I'll get a lot of new footage in September to show you guys what we're all about


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Looks like someone did not do any research, another oops.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Begins with s and ends with 1?


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

light bicycle said:


> As I mentioned earlier, but to elaborate, one of the test riders on these rims has won the Pan American games, *has an Olympic medal*, and was the National champion 3 or 4 times. He has been on the pro podium more than a few times this year. He can podium Enduro races at high levels as well, he's not a typical XC rider, that's why we have him riding these hard for us, not as a sponsored rider, as a product tester.


A rider whose name shall remain undisclosed. Also, you're lying through your teeth.

Mountain Bike medals at the Olympic Games:

1996
1. Bart Brentjens (Netherlands)
2. Thomas Frischknecht (Switzerland)
3. Miguel Martinez (France)

2000
1. Miguel Martinez (France)
2. Filip Meirhaeghe (Belgium)
3. Christoph Sauser (Switzerland)

2004
1. Julien Absalon (France)
2. José Antonio Hermida (Spain)
3. Bart Brentjens (Netherlands)

2008
1. Julien Absalon (France)
2. Jean-Christophe Péraud (France)
3. Nino Schurter (Switzerland)

2012
1. Jaroslav Kulhavý (Czech Republic) 
2. Nino Schurter (Switzerland)
3. Marco Aurelio Fontana (Italy)

2016
1. Nino Schurter (Switzerland)
2. Jaroslav Kulhavý (Czech Republic)
3. Carlos Coloma Nicolás (Spain)

Every single medallist was European.



light bicycle said:


> Our lead engineer used to work for one of the "big brands" developing new technology for carbon full suspension frames and carbon rims etc. We now have a team of engineers and and technicians working full time testing and doing product development in house. We are constantly improving our manufacturing techniques, raw material and leveraging the experience of a team of employees who have remained with us for 5 years and counting.


Another evidence-free assertion. Who's this guy? What "big brand" did he work for? Can you provide any proof? And wow, 5 years of experience (time mostly spent making cheap 400g rims)! I'm sure this qualifies you to make rims even lighter than the ones made by German manufacturers that have been pushing the limits for over a decade.


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Never heard of it. Must be an unknown manufacturer.
> 
> Have heard of:
> DT Swiss
> ...


As I mentioned before, Julien Absalon, the greatest cross-country mountain biker of all time, rides Duke rims. Considering you're big guy but built wheels more adequate for a <130lbs girl, I don't expect you to do much hard riding nor to know the people who do though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Absalon


----------



## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

xc71 said:


> Looks like someone did not do any research, another oops.


You're the one who should have done some research. This guy feeds you BS and you gobble it up like it's ice cream.

Starting with him saying that these rims were tested by some undisclosed (male) rider who "won the Pan American games, has an Olympic medal."

Mountain Bike has been an Olympic sport since Atlanta 1996. All 18 medals have been won by Europeans. Europeans don't participate in the Pan American Games, so he's clearly lying.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

sfer1 said:


> You're the one who should have done some research. This guy feeds you BS and you gobble it up like it's ice cream.
> 
> Starting with him saying that these rims were tested by some undisclosed (male) rider who "won the Pan American games, has an Olympic medal."
> 
> Mountain Bike has been an Olympic sport since Atlanta 1996. All 18 medals have been won by Europeans. Europeans don't participate in the Pan American Games, so he's clearly lying.


Wrong again, did not gobble up anything. I own 3 sets of LB rims, the last set their 650b XC rims at 313 & 318 grams which have held up fantastic to 5' drops and are very stiff, don't notice any difference to my Enve wheelset. All 3 LB rims have had zero issue's and their CS has been excellent. I did fold up an Enve rim though on a compression in a none crash related ride.
So unlike yourself who does not own a LB rim, research performed.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Truth be told, I'd probably prefer to have a non-professional testing rims anyway. Someone heavy (200+ lbs), who takes bad lines, and makes poor choices, and the odd crash.

If it passes THAT test, then it really counts.


----------



## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

So for those of you new to MTBR this thread is done. Sfer1 has blown-up/trolled more threads than anyone since the days of Nino, deeight, MaLOL and some of the good old boys.
He is not going to stop, the trolling will go on and on. His mindset is everyone on here knows nothing about MTBing and he is the utmost authority on MTBing - he even says so in some of his posts. This has been going on for years.
Here is a oldie but goodie.
http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/best-lightweight-crank-742522.html
Starts on post #57 but really gets into it on pages 2&3. One member on page 3 refers to his God like Elitism. 
This was a thread I started that he blew to pieces. Even though he never actually ran Ward Ind Ti spindles and I mention in the very first sentence of the thread that "These are not light pedals".
http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/xtr-980-pedals-tuned-819993.html
So another oops with his head up his ass, as I am still running these pedals with the same Ward spindles with no issues 5 years later.
All kinds of these threads with him, this LB thread being his latest troll.
I am not sure if he is actually just delusional or he smokes a giant bowl of crack before signing on to MTBR everyday.
Of course he never actually starts a useful thread himself, just trolls other perfectly good threads.
How he has not been banned is mind boggling.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I got 9th last night in the expert category on my nextie rims. Cracking top 10 always feels good. Won a few in the winter on my LB rims.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> As I mentioned before, Julien Absalon, the greatest cross-country mountain biker of all time, rides Duke rims. Considering you're big guy but built wheels more adequate for a <130lbs girl, I don't expect you to do much hard riding nor to know the people who do though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Absalon


Who?

They don't sound like Tinker Juarez or Ned Overend or Juliana. You sure that's a famous racer?

What rims? Duke or Luke or what? Duke Nuke-em?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

sfer1 said:


> As I mentioned before, Julien Absalon, the greatest cross-country mountain biker of all time, rides Duke rims. Considering you're big guy but built wheels more adequate for a <130lbs girl, I don't expect you to do much hard riding nor to know the people who do though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Absalon


Whoa, you call Julien Absalon (a guy who gets dropped on downhills) the best MTBer of all time, then impune Jayem's riding skills? You gotta be an XC kook. I took Jayem on my favorite enduro training descent dropping off the continental divide and he hung admirably despite riding it blind. Julien Absalon has won many races but his style does not confer "greatest of all time" (that's Nino in the XC world) or "pushes his equipment hard". That's every pro enduro racer who dabbles in XC for training (me).
Besides, what's your beef? If I crack one of these rims in a couple months or a couple years is that a big deal? Do you know how many wheels get destroyed at every DH and enduro race I attend? These things cost $260. All my bikes are worth around $10k. Replacing a $260 rim isn't the end of the world and it can be replaced with something heavier and stronger if I'm unsatisfied with how long it lasted.

I think you're jealous of my 1140g wheelset and sick 19.9lb bike. And that I live in Breckenridge with a sweet trail ending at my back door.


----------



## light bicycle (Dec 1, 2015)

Our lead Engineer has worked in the industry for much longer than 5 years. It would be bad taste to reveal which company he has worked for in the past, but it was for a larger manufacturer of carbon rims, frames etc.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

deleted


----------



## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Davide said:


> Can't wait for the 27.5 version! At 160 pounds these are going to be great!


No need to wait now, 270 gr for the 27.5 lightweight version vs. 320 gr for the standard, just 96 USD more


----------



## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I'd be all over these in the 30mm outside width (RM29C19)


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I know I'm dreaming but I'd be down for flyweight 26" 27mm internal width with a 515mm ERD. In lieu of that, 27mm + internal width 650B flyweight please (someday I'll be moving up to a 27.5 build).


----------



## baltobrewer (Apr 22, 2015)

Gotta love people who beat on a manufacturer or commenter without ever really owning the product in question. Just to add a datapoint to the group (more on the LB quality issue vs. the flyweight issue), I got my LB 65mm fatbike full wheelset (built by LB in China) earlier this summer, and have been pounding the bejeezus out of them over my local rooty, rocky, techy stuff this summer, and they have performed flawlessly, still as tight as day one. I'd buy from LB again in heartbeat, and have to say that the customer service and communication from them (Kartrin Li in particular), was second to none. At 160lbs myself, I'd seriously consider the flyweights for a summer-only XC wheelset should I need one. Chance taken on LB in the beginning, but from my experience, buy with confidence. Also, should you happen to taco a wheel or blow out a rim, you're into it for roughly half or less than what you pay for domestics. Buy another and you're still even par. Some pics for reference (should people think that I really *didn't* buy a set and am just making s**t up.


----------



## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

If you post something out of the ordinary it will get a lot of attention and that attention isn't always positive . Don't make my mistake and fight aggressively . I learned from my mistakes but it was too late and I was banned from the official WW site . Doesn't bother me at all but it's just something to remember . 

Keep doing what you're doing man . If the rims are holding up and you haven't loosened/broken any nipples/spokes then the wheels are great and at less than 1200grams they are very light .


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I have beat the living piss out of my 26" 33/27 LB carbon front rim built up with an Extralite Hyperlefty hub and 28 Sapim Superspokes. I'm running it with a Continental X-King 2.4 RaceSport tubeless at 18psi. It is light years better than the Stans Podium front wheel that it replaced and tracks SOOOO much better in the rooty rocky stuff that I've been riding as of late. And I'm no lightweight at 185lbs all geared up.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

BlownCivic said:


> ... And I'm no lightweight at 185lbs all geared up.


Yes, you are quite portly. (Like me.)


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

phlegm said:


> Yes, you are quite portly. (Like me.)


 !


----------



## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

I have Light-Bicycle rims on ALL of my bikes, even my DH bike rolls on 38mm AM 27.5" LB rims. I'm pretty smooth so I didn't get the DH version only the AM version. I will for sure be using these Flyweight LB rims on my next Weight Weenie build. Gonna drop 2lbs. below my previous 13.9lb. niner. I have complete faith in the quality of these rims. this is on A-Line on my 38mm LB rims.


----------



## VeloRyan (May 19, 2008)

sfer1, it seems apparent you may need a hug, a girlfriend/boyfriend (you seem way too infatuated with this Absalon guy- and yes I know who he is you jackhole...btw, Nino is cooler/better) and definitely maybe you are in need of some medicine.



sfer1 said:


> You're the one who should have done some research. This guy feeds you BS and you gobble it up like it's ice cream.
> 
> Starting with him saying that these rims were tested by some undisclosed (male) rider who "won the Pan American games, has an Olympic medal."
> 
> Mountain Bike has been an Olympic sport since Atlanta 1996. All 18 medals have been won by Europeans. Europeans don't participate in the Pan American Games, so he's clearly lying.


----------



## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

I own nothing from LB, but I can say this: if their manufacturing is even vaguely competent, this flyweight rim is still stiffer and stronger than just about every alloy rim of similar dimensions. If the argument is that it's too underbuilt to be trusted, you might as well claim the same for the overwhelming majority of bicycle wheels.


----------



## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

sfer1 said:


> You're the one who should have done some research. This guy feeds you BS and you gobble it up like it's ice cream.
> 
> Starting with him saying that these rims were tested by some undisclosed (male) rider who "won the Pan American games, has an Olympic medal."
> 
> Mountain Bike has been an Olympic sport since Atlanta 1996. All 18 medals have been won by Europeans. Europeans don't participate in the Pan American Games, so he's clearly lying.


Who said the test cyclist medaled at the Olympics or Pan Am games in MTB? They could have medaled in road cycling. And still be an accomplished XC racer. And even proficient riding enduro. Somebody like Levi Leipheimer.


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Edited: the new flightweight wheels for 650B are available ... https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-b...mtb-wheels-tubeless-compatible-27mm-wide.html :thumbsup:


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

sfer1 said:


> I dislike threads like this. Period. but I hate it when people take weight weenienes to these extremes.


I find is strange that you get so passionate about someone else's bike.


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Davide said:


> Edited: the new flightweight wheels for 650B are available ... https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-b...mtb-wheels-tubeless-compatible-27mm-wide.html :thumbsup:


That's awesome. Now let's convince them to make a flyweight version of the AM728!!


----------



## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

BlownCivic said:


> That's awesome. Now let's convince them to make a flyweight version of the AM728!!


I already emailed them about that too. I'm hoping that's their next one. 728 and 928.


----------



## raxstra (Sep 25, 2017)

Andy13 said:


> I would love to see a version of a 29er asymmetrical rim with 24/30mm width coming in around 330g.


Like these?: NEW Skyweight T800 Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er XC hookless rim 30mm wide - Asymmetric Rim Skyweight - Carbonbicycle Online Shop

The website looks a lot like LB, but is the quality the same?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Good find, and pretty light for a 24mm rim, but it's 40g heavier than LB Flyweight and only a mm (2mm?) wider.


----------



## raxstra (Sep 25, 2017)

They're light enough for me, but I'm not sure about the durability since I haven't heard much about carbonbicycle.cc. It's 2mm wider.


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

The layout of those 2 websites is VERY similar.

I had a quick look, they do a "skyweight" 280g asymmetric rim thats around $50 less than light bicycle
New T800 Skyweight Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er XC hookless rim 27mm wide - Asymmetric Rim Skyweight - Carbonbicycle Online Shop

I've no idea on the quality either. where-as my 2year old LB rims are holding up fine


----------



## rumblytumbly (Jun 5, 2013)

scant said:


> The layout of those 2 websites is VERY similar.
> 
> I had a quick look, they do a "skyweight" 280g asymmetric rim thats around $50 less than light bicycle
> New T800 Skyweight Asymmetric Mountain bike 29er XC hookless rim 27mm wide - Asymmetric Rim Skyweight - Carbonbicycle Online Shop
> ...


The newer website/branding they are moving to is https://www.carbonfan.com/ As you'll see they're still tweaking it and getting the pricing configurator up to speed. I just emailed and got very fast and coherent responses. Have a set of the T800 30/24 rims built on DT240, 28 hole Pilar coming my way. They sent me scale shots over the weekend coming in at 1287g. Should be good!
This company has been around for years and have a good reputation on the chinese carbon forums, just haven't made the same level of marketing push into the North American market yet as LB has.


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Here they are: DT Swiss centerlock, 28 spokes (Pillar) 27.5 Ultralight. Grand Total (without tape and valves) is 1170 :thumbsup:


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Which DT hubs are those? 190 or 240?


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

BlownCivic said:


> Which DT hubs are those? 190 or 240?


The regular 240. The wheels are really quite amazingly light ... sub 1200 and probably stronger than my Stan Crest (350 grams rims) of a decade ago ...


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

Davide said:


> Here they are: DT Swiss centerlock, 28 spokes (Pillar) 27.5 Ultralight. Grand Total (without tape and valves) is 1170 :thumbsup:
> View attachment 1162379


My build is very similar... 240s with 32H Sapim straight blades. About 1240 grams. I've got about 200 tough XC miles on them and they have been great so far.


----------



## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

Bad influence, this thread. Purchased some discount Carbon-ti hubs last night. Can't stop now!


----------



## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

tangerineowl said:


> Bad influence, this thread. Purchased some discount Carbon-ti hubs last night. Can't stop now!


Unsuscribe! Lol

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk


----------



## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

What rim tape (and width) and valves, are you guys using on the flyweights?


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

tangerineowl said:


> What rim tape (and width) and valves, are you guys using on the flyweights?


I am using DT-Swiss tape and valves ... didn't somebody came with a carbon valve somewhere recently? That would save 2-3 grams!


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

Davide said:


> I am using DT-Swiss tape and valves ... didn't somebody came with a carbon valve somewhere recently? That would save 2-3 grams!


Barbieri Carbonaria make them


----------



## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Any reports on how these flyweight rims are going? How many kms have you guys now put on them?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

tangerineowl said:


> What rim tape (and width) and valves, are you guys using on the flyweights?


I had LB include a roll of the tape they'd use if building a comopete wheel. I've had an aluminum valve snap ao I just run Stan's brass valves.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> Any reports on how these flyweight rims are going? How many kms have you guys now put on them?


The XC bike is put away for the year now. It got plenty of use in Summit County and Moab including a few races. They've stayed tensioned and true. Except for a few scratches in the clearcoat they're like new.


----------



## samarskyrider (Mar 22, 2015)

I've recently ordered a pair of flywheight wheels for Cannondale Scalpel Si. Claimed weight

Front wheel:569g
Rear wheel:689g





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FueLEX8 (May 24, 2008)

Reviving this thread. Any long term reviews? I'ts been more than a year ago that most people gere got the rims.

Thanks!


----------



## samarskyrider (Mar 22, 2015)

Nothing major, I've been running this wheelset for a season. Performance is top-notch. I have a pair of ZTR CREST wheels with same hubs/spokes as training set. 

Acceleration seems to be better on ztr due to slightly higher rotational weight (frankly I haven't compared them side by side with LB, because ZTRs are on Racing Ralphs Snakeskin and LB are on Maxxis Ikon EXO 3c Maxx speed TR) and maybe different tires 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

FueLEX8 said:


> Reviving this thread. Any long term reviews? I'ts been more than a year ago that most people gere got the rims.
> 
> Thanks!


I could just quote what I wrote a few comments above last winter but add another season with more races and wins. At the end of the summer I used a tensiometer to give them a minor tune up.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

I busted an LB flyweight rim in an XC race last year on a wheelset and tires that were built to spec. LB wouldn't replace the rim and offered me a 25% discount on a rim instead so I took what I considered to be poor customer support as an opportunity to find an alternative wheelset. A lot of forumites claimed that I abused the wheels but considering I have ridden my replacement set a lot harder than my LB Flyweights I am happy I changed.


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

interesting how the warranty has just increased, but the weight has gone up slightly. 
https://www.lightbicycle.com/XC925-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-29-inch-carbon-rims-mtb.html

i've had a flyweight on the front size May with no issues & i've used it well beyond its recommended xc use. outer lacquer scratches fairly easy on rocks, but aside from that no issues


----------



## FueLEX8 (May 24, 2008)

Just got the email with the new rims from light bicycle



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

FueLEX8 said:


> Just got the email with the new rims from light bicycle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Scam. Their XC925 at those weights/materials aren't new.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I ran my 290g Oxive "flyweight" rims last season for XC racing and they did great. No complaints. Wouldn't use these for trail riding though.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Those are wider than my Flyweights. Mine are 22 or 23mm wide internal. I'd prefer 25mm for only an extra 10g per rim though.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

scant said:


> interesting how the warranty has just increased, but the weight has gone up slightly.
> https://www.lightbicycle.com/XC925-asymmetric-rim-profile-carbon-29-inch-carbon-rims-mtb.html
> 
> i've had a flyweight on the front size May with no issues & i've used it well beyond its recommended xc use. outer lacquer scratches fairly easy on rocks, but aside from that no issues


My wheelbuilder and I noticed that change as well and suspected that it was partially due to issues like the one I had (mine was a rear wheel failure with no crash).

I heard from a somewhat biased source that he suspected that due to their process which apparently involves sanding the material post-fab they would see the occasional rare failure in the field like the one I had. However most rims will be perfectly fine with no indication of any problems.

I also traded the remaining good flyweight rim back to my wheelbuilder who is now racing cyclocross on it with no problems at all.


----------



## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

ohmygato said:


> My wheelbuilder and I noticed that change as well and suspected that it was partially due to issues like the one I had (mine was a rear wheel failure with no crash).
> 
> I heard from a somewhat biased source that he suspected that due to their process which apparently involves sanding the material post-fab they would see the occasional rare failure in the field like the one I had. However most rims will be perfectly fine with no indication of any problems.
> 
> I also traded the remaining good flyweight rim back to my wheelbuilder who is now racing cyclocross on it with no problems at all.


The reasons for the slight weight gain is the manufacturing process. Sanding will always reduce the weight a few grams, also the newer manufacturing process results in less resin flow than the previous molds. Sanding does not decrease strength as 99% of that comes from the layup beneath the surface and how those laminates work together.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Stress is highest at the surface so the surface is the worst place to remove material and maintain strength.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

superlightracer said:


> The reasons for the slight weight gain is the manufacturing process. Sanding will always reduce the weight a few grams, also the newer manufacturing process results in less resin flow than the previous molds. Sanding does not decrease strength as 99% of that comes from the layup beneath the surface and how those laminates work together.


What is the new process?


----------



## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

ohmygato said:


> What is the new process?


Essentially new molds and a different resin in the prepreg.

The new molds have improved temperature control through the heating process (a result of using a different alloy and shape). The new resin being is more flexible when cured. This improves how the rim handles rim strikes and bigger impacts. The new finish is a result of more resin at the surface and treatment on the mold contact surfaces that allow air pockets to purge more efficiently. All of this results in incremental gains in strength and consistency over the previous version.

The sanding and painting on the previous version does not remove enough material to have any consequential impact on strength, and was mostly for cosmetics. When a rim comes out of the mold, it is ready for action, but the natural resin 'blemishes' and mold residue are often miscontrued as defects by the consumer- so painting and sanding happens to make it look more uniform.


----------



## ohmygato (Mar 8, 2011)

superlightracer said:


> Essentially new molds and a different resin in the prepreg...


Is it correct that you are a stakeholder in NOBL who private labels rims from LB?


----------



## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

ohmygato said:


> Is it correct that you are a stakeholder in NOBL who private labels rims from LB?


I am not a stakeholder in anything, just a mere minion. 

I work for NOBL primarily, and as an agent for LB's factories. NOBL rims are produced in LB factories. They are not private label, but completely unique products. We created and designed the molds (which we own) and design our own layup schedules.

NOBL and LB are closely interconnected in that we operate as consultants for them from everything from helping them with their R&D, marketing, and customer support.

As I said, I also work with LB's factories. I help other companies who want to get into the wheel game do so. LB produces rims for many well known brands out there already. Some are rebranded, some are exclusive private label, some are completely proprietary.

LB has two factories in Xiamen, one which is solely for prototyping and experimentation, and then one for production. I've been to both a few times. The prototyping one is the most interesting as that's where the engineers can really get crazy and try things outside of the box. The results of their experimentation can either be a home run, in which case the tech is rolled into the production factory, or like any experimentation, some of it is no good and scrapped.


----------



## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

superlightracer said:


> I am not a stakeholder in anything, just a mere minion.
> 
> I work for NOBL primarily, and as an agent for LB's factories. NOBL rims are produced in LB factories. They are not private label, but completely unique products. We created and designed the molds (which we own) and design our own layup schedules.
> 
> ...


Is Carbonfan one of those other companies you work with? I just had a rear rim failure using theirs unfortunately


----------



## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

broeli said:


> Is Carbonfan one of those other companies you work with? I just had a rear rim failure using theirs unfortunately


Nope. They are one of the many factories in Xiamen. I have not been to that particular factory. I have been to many other factories in the area though.


----------

