# New Hub....Again



## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

Just brought my 2011 Trek 4300 to the LBS again today with a shot rear hub. This is the second time in 3 months the hub has gone out on me. The first time was a complete failure while going up hill. This time there was no failure just horrible noises when free wheeling. I am looking at getting a new wheelset/hub to help end this problem.

Guy at the LBS was reccomending a set of bontrager mavericks but idk that much about wheelsets. I want something relatively strong with a solid hub that wont strip. The current wheels on 4300 have stayed true and strong, it is just that the hub keeps getting destroyed. 

Any reccomendations on a solid wheel/hub combo that won't break the bank. I'm not looking for anything fancy or superlight just somethign reliable. Thanks!


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Define "break the bank".


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Rebuild the rear wheel with a M529 rear hub, heavier duty freehub body


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

I guess $350-400 is what I could spend.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I've had good luck with wheels built on Hope hubs. I've bought them from:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Kits.aspx?ModelID=63713

(check your country and currency settings to see what it will cost)


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

+1 on the Hopes. Great hub for the price.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

+1 on the Hope's. Good quality, and nice cheap standard industrial bearings all the way. So a new set of bearings is real cheap.

Magura


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Just make sure to include $70-$100 in your budget for a XT or PG990 cassette (or for a steel freehub body) if you go with the Hope.


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## TheMammothRider (Aug 10, 2010)

Hope Pro all day long....


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## steadyflow (Apr 25, 2006)

Just suck it up and get the King hubs 36 spoke heavy duty bolt on. I used to blow hubs all the time...built up a set of 36 spoke kings 3 years ago and haven't had any problems since.


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## norcal2 (Nov 23, 2005)

steadyflow said:


> Just suck it up and get the King hubs 36 spoke heavy duty bolt on. I used to blow hubs all the time...built up a set of 36 spoke kings 3 years ago and haven't had any problems since.


Yes CK hubs have worked well with for me also, you can pick up used on Ebay also and totally rebuildable when needed...


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

This is quite a common clyde problem, high torque and cheap ratchets do not work together.

I have done a TON of research on this and spent over $1000 getting hubs.

The ultimate solution is the Chris King. It is one of the finest pieces of engineering I have seen (and I am an engineer). It will never fail under your torque, I would not be surprised if it could take the torque from a V6.

The mid range solution is Hope Pro2 (preferably EVO). do not get if 150mm, only the 135.

The lower price solution is the Shimano Saint. This should not be confused with other shimano designs, this one is a stunner. 

Less than the pro2 and probably stronger. Weighs a ton though.


I have a pro2 front and saint rear at the moment.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I still vote for Hope. They are also rebuildable, tough, light, and cheapish. Mine has withstood 320 pounds of body weight powered by a set of legs that can squat 500 pounds and I am a major pedal masher...not smooth at all. Never a hiccup with them. CK is certainly a fantastic product but you are also paying a hefty price of a name.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

" CK is certainly a fantastic product but you are also paying a hefty price of a name."

The CK is more than just a name, the quality is unrivaled. There is no hub out there like it.

You get what you pay for with both.

Hope is a fantastic product, but absolutely no where near the quality or design of CK.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> This is quite a common clyde problem, high torque and cheap ratchets do not work together.
> 
> I have done a TON of research on this and spent over $1000 getting hubs.
> 
> ...


Chris King drive shells are tested to failure at over 800 ft/lbs of torque. I have a couple and their drive mechanism design is really second to none. I have a couple of Industry 9 hubs as well, but from the drive mechanism point of view, CK's ring drive is much nicer.

However, given the budget of the op, I would still look into Hopes.

Op, are you only looking for a rear wheel? If so, perhaps you could splurge and get a CK rear?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

CaveGiant said:


> " CK is certainly a fantastic product but you are also paying a hefty price of a name."
> 
> The CK is more than just a name, the quality is unrivaled. There is no hub out there like it.
> 
> ...


Right...but a lot of the cost is the name...take a BMW...great cars...take the same car and call it a Hyundai and you will pay $20k less for it. Hope may not be the same quality bu IMO its the best value for the money.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Right...but a lot of the cost is the name...take a BMW...great cars...take the same car and call it a Hyundai and you will pay $20k less for it. Hope may not be the same quality bu IMO its the best value for the money.


No, the cost of Chris King products is that they do not outsource anything. Their entire product including the bearings are done in house in Portland, OR. It costs a lot more to make your own bearings and small parts than to simply source them out like many other hub manufacturers do (including Hope).


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Nubster said:


> Right...but a lot of the cost is the name...take a BMW...great cars...take the same car and call it a Hyundai and you will pay $20k less for it. Hope may not be the same quality bu IMO its the best value for the money.


IMO the design behind the CK ring drive is much more superior than the Hope's pawl setup. Even if you look at the points of engagement, CK has 72 points vs Hope's 32 (??).

Compared CK to Hope is really comparing apples to oranges in this case.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

So the lbs "upgraded" my rear hub to the deore....yea some upgrade, 2 rides in and SNAP!... Looks as If im gonna order a custom rear wheel from Chain Reaction with Hope Pro 2 Evo. I am a little confused on what items to select on their site. The Hope Pro 2 Evo Saint? This seems to be the 10mm axle I need. Also any recomendations on the rim to put on? Will I need to order a new quick release and casette. I am pretty mechanically inclined (cars) just a noob to bikes. Thanks for all the great help guys.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I am not quite sure about Hope's Saint hub. Shimano's Saint hub has an unusual through axle, and I think that is the speciality. I don't know if the Hope Hub comes with that axle or not and the description on CRC does not help at all. You could try asking CRC or Hope.

I know that "Hope Pro 2 Evo Disc Rear" and "Hope Pro 2 Evo Disc Rear 10mm Bolt-Up".will work with normal dropouts. The "regular" one needs a quick release and the "bolt-up" is fixed with bolts that are included.

For rims, my Mavic 721 rims have been troublefree. 321 and 521 are same width and that is wide enough for 2.4" tires. The last two numbers in Mavic rim models is for the internal width.


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm 210lbs and have a set of Azonic Outlaws. Mostly I buy mid range wheels and if they're on the lite side, I end up braking spokes at the hub or killing the freehub. The outlaws aren't very expensive, but have run flawless and stayed true since I bought them. Plus, you can have all the axle options covered!


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

never mind


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

Ok I think I got it figured out. Now can I use the quick release and casette from my current wheel? They are fairly new as the bike is only 4 months old.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

rmontgo21 said:


> Ok I think I got it figured out. Now can I use the quick release and casette from my current wheel? They are fairly new as the bike is only 4 months old.


You can use the the quick release, but the bolt on option might be attractive to you to firm up the rear triangle. That is something you can do later if you want, but the cassette is something you should think about sooner rather than later. . . . . .

As for the cassette, the stock Hope freehub body is made from aluminum. The cassette that came on your bike dows not have a 'carrier' that holds the larger cogs together as one piece. Your current cassette, will gouge the aluminum freehub body, end eventually it will be very difficult to remove the cassette. My advice would be to get the optional stainless steel freehub body and then you can run whatever cassette you want (some of the cheaper cassettes are very strong, even stronger than the carrier types IME). If you stick with the aluminum freehub body, you should always plan on spending $70+ for a cassette every time you need one.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

Any reccomendations for an 8 speed casette to go with this setup?


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

If you're going to run 8 speed on an aluminum freehub, I would go with the Shimano M737 cassette. It has the aluminum carrier like a 9 speed XT cassette does, so it won't ruin your freehub body. They are hard to find, and I am not sure what the largest granny gear was on those, but that's about your only choice I know of in 8 speed (though I could absolutely be wrong on that).


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have a different opinion on the scoring of the hope freehub.

If you do your lockring up tight, it is not an issue.

There will be scoring, but at most a few mm.
This makes it harder to get the cassette off (but nothing that a sharp tap with a wrench has not fixed).

I would not worry about the scoring, just understand it will happen and that it does not really matter.

The key thing is lock ring up TIGHT, do it lose and you can cause more damage.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Tightening the lock ring to the max, does help.


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## steadyflow (Apr 25, 2006)

pebbles said:


> I'm 210lbs and have a set of Azonic Outlaws. Mostly I buy mid range wheels and if they're on the lite side, I end up braking spokes at the hub or killing the freehub. The outlaws aren't very expensive, but have run flawless and stayed true since I bought them. Plus, you can have all the axle options covered!


I had these and while the wheel was good.....I blew through 3 hubs, this is when I decided to go with Chris King. Another thing with King's is they come with a warranty which I believe is 5 years so yeah they are expensive, but if you do happen to blow them up you will get a new one.

My King bottom bracket blew out and I just got a new one back just paid $6 for shipping. Really can't beat their customer service or their products.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

If this does happen can I replace the freehub only? I dont want to do something that may eventually render the hub useless.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Hope freehubs are easy to pull off and put back.

Looks like CRC does not have them in stock right now.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25986

I'd heard that some had broken pawls or springs on their Hope hubs, so I bought a set just in case. Haven't needed them yet.






...
Oh, did anyone mention that Hope hubs are LOUD. I actually like it but there are some that it bothers.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Does Hope hubs offer a stainless steel freehub body?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

They offer "steel". I have the singlespeed/Trials version which is also steel. It does not seem to rust.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

perttime said:


> They offer "steel". I have the singlespeed/Trials version which is also steel. It does not seem to rust.


There you go op. I'd just get a steel freebody, and not worry about the cassette gouging the freebody.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I have the steel freebody on my Hope and no rust issues either.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I am not sure if steel freehubs are available on stock Hope hubs, on some models only, or if it is only an option you can buy separately ... everybody wants light parts.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes I have the same question. Is a steel freehub something I can upgrade to down the road?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

rmontgo21 said:


> Yes I have the same question. Is a steel freehub something I can upgrade to down the road?


I would imagine so. But if you are buying a new hub, it is easier/cheaper to get the steel version from the get go.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

rmontgo21 said:


> Yes I have the same question. Is a steel freehub something I can upgrade to down the road?





perttime said:


> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25986


...


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## klydesdale (Feb 6, 2005)

macming said:


> I would imagine so. But if you are buying a new hub, it is easier/cheaper to get the steel version from the get go.


My inquiries prior to purchasing a set of Hope Pro II hubs several months ago indicated the steel freehub shell was only available as an separate part.


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## sanitaire (Jan 30, 2008)

I have the 36 hole phil wood hub, ryno lite dh rims and 14 gauge spokes.....10 years trouble free


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## clydecrash (Apr 1, 2005)

Well, op, I will try to bring you back to a high quality hub. If you think you will be riding for a long time (the next 5 to 20 years) and can put up the $$, look at getting a King or Hadley rear hub (heck, Phil Wood also, plus others). Both King and Hadley are rebuildable, and long-lasting. I know it is a lot more $$, but it will be an investment. And you can even choose a steel driveshell for the King from the beginning (of course that is more $$). And Hadley is less expensive than King.

Build a high quality hub with your high quality rim of choice (I am partial to Mavic EX721 myself for a tube rim), with a good build (this makes the most of difference in a long-lasting wheel), and you will have a wheel to use for years (well, a horrible crash may change that). And, when the time comes, get a new wheel rebuilt with your nice rear hub.

If your front wheel is OK, you may just want to keep it. Fronts are not nearly the concern as the rears. And I gave up a long time ago in having matching front and rear wheels.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

From a strength standpoint, a larger front wheel isn't as critical to most. But the extra width does give a tire more volume, and in many cases, a more effective profile.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

I ordered a Hope Pro 2 Evo thursday night with the Outlaw rim. Any idea on how long it takes ChainReaction to build and deliver a cutom wheel?


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## sascwatch (Mar 3, 2011)

+1 on the Hope Pro II hub aswell, I have a set on ZTR Flow rim's and have been doing lots of drops and hard hits on the trails. I weigh 240 without gear and put out alot of power, now if only cassettes could hold up to my weight without flex that would be awesome (have a SRAM pc990 on the way)


The set I order was a pre-built one from hope, came in hope wheel boxes and took maybe a week total with shipping to Canada.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

When I bought CRC custom wheels, they shipped in a couple of days. That certainly depends on how busy they are with orders. How long it takes to reach you after that depends on the shipping companies, customs, etc: a bit unpredictable. With some luck, it takes a week.


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

What is this combo considered weight wise? Is this going to be lighter than my Bontrager Ranger and Deore hub?


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## taterbug (Jul 30, 2008)

rmontgo21 said:


> Just brought my 2011 Trek 4300 to the LBS again today with a shot rear hub. This is the second time in 3 months the hub has gone out on me. The first time was a complete failure while going up hill. This time there was no failure just horrible noises when free wheeling. I am looking at getting a new wheelset/hub to help end this problem.
> 
> Guy at the LBS was reccomending a set of bontrager mavericks but idk that much about wheelsets. I want something relatively strong with a solid hub that wont strip. The current wheels on 4300 have stayed true and strong, it is just that the hub keeps getting destroyed.
> 
> Any reccomendations on a solid wheel/hub combo that won't break the bank. I'm not looking for anything fancy or superlight just somethign reliable. Thanks!


Cheap and reliable although not that light....XT hubs mated to Rhynolite XL rims. Most on-line sources have them on sale. Try jensonusa.com, cambriabike.com, pricepoint.com. After you get them, make sure they are tensioned evenly, then ride the hell out of them. I weigh in at 260-280 depending on the time of day. Had a set that was perfect. Not as blingy as Hopes and CK's but get the jobs done for clydes


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## rmontgo21 (Mar 22, 2011)

Finally got my new wheel in! Wow is this outlaw rim wide. Way wider than the bontrager that was on there. I pulled my cassette off and 6 of the 8 gears were combined as one unit. I kno that there was worry about them grinding into the aluminum freehub. How tight should the casette be? I got it pretty tight but the lockring tool kept popping out when I tried to put too much force on it. 

Lastly, is this new wheel combo lighter or heavier than the old bontrager unit I pulled off?

Thanks for all the help!


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

There is a difference between individual gears bolted (or riveted) together and gears on an alloy carrier. If they are simply bolted together they *WILL* dig in to the alloy freehub body.


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## JDubKC (Jul 31, 2009)

I just watched the above video, where can I buy one of those fancy bikes on the wall for my 1 year old :cornut:


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