# Giant STP vs. Santa Cruz Jackal



## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

hey peeps...I need a little guidance and a second opinion. I am a college student looking for a new bike. I currently have a 2005 Ironhorse Yakuza Bakuto and it has served my purposes so far. But I am looking for a upgrade. My style of riding has evolved more into urban assault and even a little trials riding, but my bike is holding me back. I my new bike to be good for what I said, but I also want to ride it to class so it has to be relatively comfy. I have narrowed my decision for my new bike down to the Giant STP and the Santa Cruz Jackal. A little advice to help me with my decision would be very helpful. Thank you so much!!


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

STP.

Jackal is more at home on the big DJs.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

2nd the STP.


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## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks guys..i appreciate it!!


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Everyone I know that has/had an STP likes it.
The one person I know that had a jackal replaced it.
The STP will be a LOT better for trials riding, and slightly better for urban, due to the geometry differences. 
Like will said, on bigger DJs or freeriding, the Jackal will be a bit burlier, and more stable.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

The Jackal looks like crap anyways, so just based on looks I'd say STP, and based on what you're saying I still say STP.


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## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

thanks again...quick (and possibly stupid) question...what does DJ's stand for??


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

dirt jumps


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

And it shouldn't have an apostrophe.


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## JBsoxB (May 18, 2004)

stp is an amazing bike....


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## bbrz4 (Jun 12, 2007)

Go STP


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## minus9 (Oct 7, 2005)

I have owned both. I sold the STP and still have the Jackal. But then again, I also own two trials bikes. The Jackal is heavier and stronger. It has nice, short chainstays and will work for urban, but it is very much at home on the jumps.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

minus9 said:


> I have owned both. I sold the STP and still have the Jackal. But then again, I also own two trials bikes. The Jackal is heavier and stronger. It has nice, short chainstays and will work for urban, but it is very much at home on the jumps.


STP and Jackal both have 16" stays. not super long but not super short either.

i have never ridden a jackal but i got the chance to ride an STP a few weekends ago and my take on them is they are very comfortable feeling. i really like everything about them except how long the rear end felt to me. wasn't easy to manual and just didn't have that super short feeling like many people have said they do. probably need to spend more time on one..not that i wouldn't consider getting one if i were in your position.


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## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

Ok. I have looked at the 2008 STP 1, it's black with a fade into blue up the bike. Am I crazy, or does it say it has a rigid fork? As in no travel, no suspension? Is that correct?


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## bbrz4 (Jun 12, 2007)

in europe i believe it does... look at STP SS


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## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

Well are there any American stores online where I can buy one with a suspension fork? And I would get the SS but I need some gears I think....I would prefer them anyways.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

I thought the STP from this season and beyond has revamped shorter chainstays of like 15.8 or something.... am I wrong? I seriously thought I remember that for sure, even though the site contradicts....


and yeah, there were pics floating around of a new rigid model (but maybe AUS/Japan/Europe only or something). No joke about it, stiffy has it's advantages and fun factor for sure, don't dis it until you check it.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I remember it too satori


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

I heard the newer models have shorter chainstays too. I wonder if anyone can confirm. 

http://www.giantbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/mountain/1322/29439/geometry/


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

My 07 STP has 15.75 stays and I did measure. Don't know about the 08 model though.

Edit: Giant's site list the 08 as having 16" stays. I wonder why they would change it to be longer?


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## icramer (Oct 19, 2007)

Dave Moore said:


> My 07 STP has 15.75 stays and I did measure. Don't know about the 08 model though.
> 
> Edit: Giant's site list the 08 as having 16" stays. I wonder why they would change it to be longer?


That is only a quarter of an inch..maybe they round up or something.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

icramer said:


> That is only a quarter of an inch..maybe they round up or something.


Maybe, but if you look up the archive for 2007 the geometry page shows 15.75". For 08 it says 16"...but yeah, its only a quarter inch so I wouldn't sweat it anyways as I don't believe anyone would or could ever notice that tiny difference.


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## BIKESerFUN (Sep 5, 2007)

New santa cruz Dj bike is gonna be sick.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

icramer said:


> That is only a quarter of an inch..maybe they round up or something.


don't think so in this world of stressin' on a hundredth of an inch. those numbers matter big time when people are searching so hard and staring at that number all day long. People shopping for a bike these days probably look at that CS number long before they even look at how long the tt is! If Giant's marketing boys are rounding up on the numbers, they need to look twice or get burned when everyone else jumps brands and leaves their profitting numbers low for the season...

btw, I can mos def. feel the difference of a quarter inch. had to readjust my butt shifty for manualing when I put the half-link back on my bike and slammed the drops.  Same deal when I ground the dropouts on my Eastern26 shorter.

I'm not a big SC fan at all these days, but yeah, their new jackalopeameleonaire will probably be one light summa-b... I'll keep that reserved for the catalog queen rich kid builders though, the SC alu. is not my thing at this point.


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## bbrz4 (Jun 12, 2007)

Actually i read SC is not releasing the jackameleon or whatever its called.


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

Aussie STP's state a 406mm chain stay (16") for 2008, and it's the same as for 2007.


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

*Santa Cruz Jackal Rulezz*

STP Giant is just one more DJ-URBAN bike,

Santa Cruz Jackal is a beast.

Santa Cruz made it perfect, many people that say blah blah blah talkshit about jackal, never ridden one.

Jackal's frame simply NEVER crack, i saw a couple Giant STP destroyed, 
if anyone saw a jackal cracked let me know please?

GIANT STP have nice geometry, like Cannondale Chase, Kona Cowan, Atomlab Pimp, Nort Shore *****es (fragile *****es), but it is just one more DJ Frame.

No one of those is a Santa Cruz, i have ridden both, STP is lighter (my syster loved it hahahaha) and comfortable, if you want to big air\big drops without thinking if your landing will destroy your frame and maybe your health, think about a Jackal, you will be not dissapointed, sure of it

Jackal is THE Urban\Dj bike.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

santiagoabelleira said:


> Jackal is THE Urban\Dj bike.


No. Take Santa Cruz's nuts out of your mouth for a second.

Many other frames out there will street miles better than a jackal. Heck any boutique bike out there can outperform it in that area: Nemesis Project, Union Street Bikes, Tonic Fabrication, Dobermann Bikes just to name a few, all of those are steel, and all of those weigh as much or less than your ugly overbuilt bike of choice.

If you're to be riding trials, the Jackal still wouldn't be my choice, all aforementioned bikes have shorter chainstays to help you get up on the rear wheel easier, have a shorter wheelbase to make them more maneuverable along with a steeper head angle.

All frames break, that's just how it is, it's not because you've never seen a broken jackal that it has not happened.

At a 550$ price point for a frame, I'd rather buy myself a nice hand made steel frame and support a small company and even get the very colour I want.


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

YES i love my overbuilt ugly bike (ugly thing is relative, i believe), 

union street bikes sucks man, the bikes and customer service it is nasty.

I really do not know about the other brands that you mentioned.

Obviously all frames break, the FACT is jackal is stronger than most of bikes around, 

jackal's with 48 spoke wheels and 3 piece cro-mo chainset will be indestructble.

i really do not mind that much for 1" shorter chainstays, 
THIS IS NOT THAT BIG DEAL as the THE STRONGEST'S FRAME IT IS, this could save you on big airs. 

Anyway in my opinnion the jackal is easy to bar spin, and get up on the rear wheel.

Did you ever ridden one??

I have no nuts on my mouth or whatever you are trying to say, 

maybe you use to have a cok on your, but this is not my problem.

bye

Santi


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## CripTiK (Oct 21, 2007)

snaky69 said:


> Many other frames out there will street miles better than a jackal. Heck any boutique bike out there can outperform it in that area: Nemesis Project, Union Street Bikes, Tonic Fabrication, Dobermann Bikes just to name a few, all of those are steel, and all of those weigh as much or less than your ugly overbuilt bike of choice.





santiagoabelleira said:


> union street bikes sucks man, the bikes and customer service it is nasty.
> 
> I really do not know about the other brands that you mentioned.
> 
> Obviously all frames break, the FACT is jackal is stronger than most of bikes around,


I like how you can jock the Jackal so hard but you haven't even heard of the other bikes mentioned. I'm glad you like your Jackal as many others do too but maybe you could drop the "My bike is greater than all" tone and just state valid reasons.


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

i did not try to get that tone, sorry if someone got it .

I know jackal are heavy and have longer chainstays,

i really do not know about the other brands except usb,

you are in about facts or valid reasons, the fact is no one can give any opinnion if this person

never ride a jackal before.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

santiagoabelleira said:


> i did not try to get that tone, sorry if someone got it .
> 
> I know jackal are heavy and have longer chainstays,
> 
> ...


The fact is people may take you a bit more seriously if you could type in half reasonable english :nono:

Stop advertising Santa Cruz's products and bashing everyone else's whenever you yourself have admitted you know nothing of them. You can't claim its the best if you haven't ridden them all.. and I am 100% positive you have more definitally NOT.


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

for 550$ you can get a .243... hottest frames for the buck in my opinion =).


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

i am not advertising SC or whatever you are trying to say, i am not bashing no one, just facts.

i can not write english really well, but the fact is you do not know read english at all.

that's a fact. ( considering you as native speaker )

too much blah blah, go get ur bike, (maybe you are better over bikes than reading your own language)


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

seriously dude chill...go take a beer.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

santiagoabelleira said:


> the fact is no one can give any opinnion if this person
> 
> never ride a jackal before.


The same goes for you about all the brands I mentioned. No bike is the ultimate bike, all of them have their pro's and cons. I'm glad you like your Jackal, but quit the brown nosing.

You don't hear me telling everyone my secret agent is the best bike in the world and that everyone, their mom and their dog should get one.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

santiagoabelleira said:


> i am not advertising SC or whatever you are trying to say, i am not bashing no one, just facts.
> 
> i can not write english really well, but the fact is you do not know read english at all.
> 
> ...


Mmmm... Fact 'eh? Lets see if I can't try and understand your facts some more...

Taken from another thread that is literally right on this page... Someones a bit of a fanboy and STILL never includes actual facts. I want to see some videos of your sick nasty urban riding on a sick nasty jackal.. Common. Lets see 'em!



santiagoabelleira said:


> GET THE JACKAL, *STP IS 4 KIDS*
> 
> Jackal never get cracked. your money will worth,
> 
> ...


Aye, STP does make a little kiddie version of the STP, but I'm curious as to which you may have ridden?

On another note, what makes the marz. DJ series "junk" other than their weight? While your at it, could you at least include the PRICE DIFFERENCE between a fox and a marz DJ? THANKS! :thumbsup:



santiagoabelleira said:


> STP Giant is just one more DJ-URBAN bike,
> 
> Santa Cruz Jackal is a beast.
> 
> ...


Aye... So I guess you yourself have not only ridden, but RIPPED on a mob/riot, a nempro of any sort, or bloody hell a 20"? And still managed to break them ALL?! Lets see theese big air/big drops of yours.... I'm rather happy your "syster" loved the STP, but doesn't admitting that cramp your penis-liking of S.C.?



santiagoabelleira said:


> YES i love my overbuilt ugly bike (ugly thing is relative, i believe),
> 
> *union street bikes sucks man, the bikes and customer service it is nasty.*
> 
> ...


Hmm... Got examples of USB's HORRIBLE customer service or shitty products? Because I seem to have missed them.....

And lastly... A PM to a member that states the below probably isn't the best way to make them happy with you 



santiagoabelleira said:


> please correct me if this is in correct english
> 
> S U C K M Y FAT D I C K B I T C H
> 
> ...


I'll be the first to come out and say the only other bike I have ride time on other than mine was a P.2, but I dont go around bashing other frame companies saying that the product you ride is the greatest. I'm happy you're happy with your bike, but being a S.C. fanboy really doesn't make much sense when you claim you yourself haven't even heard of many of the above companies. I would appeciate if you stop the personal attacks and take the fact that you got all of your "facts" handed to you on a plater and learn till next time. No harm done, just wanted to list your facts out so me and other members may be able to understand them a bit more. If I missed somthing please do tell me. I am always eager to learn more.

Thanks


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

def right dude,

i do not know about the other bike brands you mentioned,

i am open mind to know about it.

there are no many DJ-street bikes around here, i just got mine for 800$ , 
taking account the built and the frame i think is not that expensive,
(of course it was preowned)

Frame - 07 Jackal

Fork - 06 Fox Talas

Stem - Titec

Bars - Ringle riser

Wheels - Sun Singletack

Hubs and Spocket - Redline

Tires - WTB 2.1

Rear Brake - Avid Juicy 5, 185mm

Seat, Seatpoat, and Pedals - Specialized

Cranks and Bottom Bracket - TruVativ Hussefelt

Headset - Pig DH Pro


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

yeah, what is all this jibba-jabba dropping over here... ?

Listent to snaky, he's got a level head on today.

I wouldn't be surprised if SC drops the Jackal in this next model season, no longer producing it when they go to the super short chainstay'd, lightweight skinny bike they were showing on that other thread... the one in decline mag. Jackal is now falling off the edge of old school and being over run by the new wave.
Same with the .243's by the way, as well as the evil imperial, and most other overbuilt unecessaryness.


don't rip this guy for his use of the english language, that is completely ridiculous. I'd like to see any one of you others on here try to go over to his native forum and try to hang with the crowd there, let alone try to argue a point in his language, haha... Americans can be so hypocritical... "learn english!" yet, most of us here cannot even begin to speak a second language, and even worse, still act so surprised when we go to another country and the natives there can't understand... alright, I'm just letting that one go there, haha.


by the way, santiagoabelleira, what is your problem with Union Street Bicycles? Have YOU ever ridden any of their frames? Have YOU ever dealt with their "customer service" in person? I'm sure if you had an issue or problem, Leethal or Sean here on this forum would be glad to help you out if you needed.


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

THe .243 street frame is pretty simple with no unneccessary stuff, but yeah your still pretty right bout the DH and the FR frames...


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

santiagoabelleira said:


> I know jackal are heavy and have longer chainstays, the fact is no one can give any opinnion if this person never ride a jackal before.


I've ridden one, and compared to my STP it felt like a turd.
Your own statement about the weight and chainstays is why the Jackal is not well suited to urban and trails. If you care more about drops to flat, and posing, the jackal is the bike for you.
:thumbsup:


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

-.---.- said:


> THe .243 street frame is pretty simple with no unneccessary stuff, but yeah your still pretty right bout the DH and the FR frames...


Sure the new ones are.. But their old DH/FR hardtail was un-neccesarily overbuilt. Though I must admit.. They look pretty nasty when done correctly.


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

*hey hey ho ho ho*

Yes i ridden one, it was sweet before i broke it, ( when frame's cracked it was almost new)

i purchased it new on the states, then built at home.

when the frame got craked, i contacted many many times USB via e-mail, and PHONE!!

first they ignored me, then they just said: "cos your frame was not in the states we can not replace it, or whatever".

this is not a understandable CO. policy, if you account that i even offered to send the broken one for free ( it cost like 150 bucks for me) and pay half of shipping costs for the new one.

about my english i tought this was a bike forum, not a language one. anyway i will try to increase my english learning skills for the american English's purists.

my opinion about jackal, it is overbuilt, it is heavy, it is old.

but is mine, and do not crack risking my bones


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

their old omnes were WAY overbuilt. But yeah back then it was trend...all trends must die.


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## santiagoabelleira (Jan 3, 2008)

i am not posing my bike, i just ride it.


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## Jiffycake (Sep 22, 2005)




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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

See what you started icramer, just kidding. That was gettin ridiculous, f'n santiagoblahblahblah


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

lol...


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