# The 500-Mile Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

A preview of some bikepacking goodness in Central Idaho:

Bike Touring Special: The 500-Mile Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route | adventure journal

Maps will be available this autumn.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Now this looks good!


----------



## Sprinter-Falia (Mar 13, 2013)

Casey I enjoy reading your blog have been watching it for more info after your recon trip. Really liked the fire lookout tours as well. Keep posting, always a good read. :thumbsup:


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

This route really excited me last year and I've been waiting for ACA to issue the maps. I've checked their web site and there's no new information on it. Does anyone have any beta on when the maps/final route info will be available? Some discussions made it appear that everything was finalized and they just need to print the maps.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Casey has been posting on bike packing.net. Sounds like the maps should be out real soon. There is a map on bikepacking., but it is not detailed. I will be riding it in late July with friends. Since we are both in New England, you could drive out with me if you are interested. I will also be on my Fargo. Harry


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

Harryonaspot said:


> Casey has been posting on bike packing.net. Sounds like the maps should be out real soon. There is a map on bikepacking., but it is not detailed. I will be riding it in late July with friends. Since we are both in New England, you could drive out with me if you are interested. I will also be on my Fargo. Harry


Thanx's for the update on the maps and also the offer for riding. My schedule would be to ride in in early Sept, but thanx's for the ride offer. Hopefully you'll post back after your ride and let us know how awesome the route is.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been waiting for maps to come out for a while. Looks great. I've been looking for a route like this to get my GF into longer tours with some payoff along the way. I can't think of a better reward than a hotspring.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

I'll post that map here too.

We've been having some issues with our printer - nothing big, just trying to make everything perfect - that has cause the latest round of delays. We should have the maps sent off within the next week. Which means we should have them on shelves by late-feb, at the dead latest. The webpage should be up around the same time.

Thanks everyone for your patience.

Here's some more info on the route, including when to plan a trip for: Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route Q&A | Adventure Cycling Association

ps. Vik, I'm about an inch away from getting a Krampus. You still diggin' yours for loaded trips?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

flumphboy said:


> ps. Vik, I'm about an inch away from getting a Krampus. You still diggin' yours for loaded trips?


Thanks for the map Casey.

Ya love the Krampus. Got it pretty much dialled in for touring. No regrets buying one last year. It's great for exploring. :thumbsup:

Since you can run a "normal" 2.4" 29er tire on it you really aren't into anything too specialized if you want to skip the Knards for a particular trip.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

The maps have been sent to the printer. We will have them on-shelves in roughly 3 weeks.

If you are super eager to have them in your hands, please purchase them as soon as they are available. I have a slight feeling that the-powers-that-be did not order enough, and we will run out of stock fast. I'll post here right when we get them in. 

(ps. Thanks, Vik!)


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanx's for the heads up. I'll be watching everyday, multiple times a day. I agree with you, this route will be a hot item.

Attaboy's to everyone involved, but especially you Casey,


----------



## plantdude (Dec 30, 2007)

This is now added to my bucket list...


----------



## SixZeroSixOne (Jan 28, 2004)

flumphboy said:


> The maps have been sent to the printer. We will have them on-shelves in roughly 3 weeks.
> 
> If you are super eager to have them in your hands, please purchase them as soon as they are available. I have a slight feeling that the-powers-that-be did not order enough, and we will run out of stock fast. I'll post here right when we get them in.
> 
> (ps. Thanks, Vik!)


Tick for updates on this thread.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

flumphboy said:


> The maps have been sent to the printer. We will have them on-shelves in roughly 3 weeks.
> 
> If you are super eager to have them in your hands, please purchase them as soon as they are available. I have a slight feeling that the-powers-that-be did not order enough, and we will run out of stock fast. I'll post here right when we get them in.
> 
> (ps. Thanks, Vik!)


Casey lets say you could only get the time to ride 250miles and you wanted to hit the best singletrack and hot-springs on the route....what would your recommendation be?


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

ACA just sent me their spring Cyclosource catalog yesterday, and the Hot Spring map sets are listed in the catalog. However, I checked again and they are not on the WEB site. So I just called to order the map set, but the call center person said that they can not take any orders for the mapset until Feb 25.

So mark your calendars!


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

vikb said:


> Casey lets say you could only get the time to ride 250miles and you wanted to hit the best singletrack and hot-springs on the route....what would your recommendation be?


If your looking for a loop, I would suggest - to you Vik, and any other experienced bikepacker - the one a few of us have been discussing on the bikepacking.net thread (ACA's Next Dirt Route).

The only problem with doing Ketchum > White Cloud Option > Stanley > Alturas Lake > Willow Creek Option > Ketchum, is the section between Alturas Lake and Willow Creek is not part of our routing, and no one can find beta on it. I think the trails will be fine through the Ross Fork Basin, but they could suck. Its probably 15ish miles worth of trails, and a few more on dirt roads.

If those trails go, I think this loop will be exactly what you are looking for.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

VTFargo said:


> ACA just sent me their spring Cyclosource catalog yesterday, and the Hot Spring map sets are listed in the catalog. However, I checked again and they are not on the WEB site. So I just called to order the map set, but the call center person said that they can not take any orders for the mapset until Feb 25.
> 
> So mark your calendars!


True that. Our big rollout - press releases, blog posts, yada ya - will be on the 25th. I hope the maps will get here in time...

Like I said, I'll post - in this thread - the second they arrive.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

VTFargo said:


> ACA just sent me their spring Cyclosource catalog yesterday, and the Hot Spring map sets are listed in the catalog. However, I checked again and they are not on the WEB site. So I just called to order the map set, but the call center person said that they can not take any orders for the mapset until Feb 25.
> 
> So mark your calendars!


Just to confirm this, I just talked to our sales folks and we are not taking orders until the 25th. Even if the maps come in early, we are still not taking orders until the 25th. If the maps come in late, we will be taking pre-orders on the 25th.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

We have the maps in house. You can order them starting tomorrow morning.


----------



## locobaylor (Jun 19, 2008)

Available to purchase now in the Mountain time zone; I'm buying mine right now! Stoked!!

Edit: Spoke too soon--site crashed


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

I called up and ordered mine!!!!! They are on the way to my house, well after the snow clears today


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Got my maps ordered and already have a couple people interested. :thumbsup:


----------



## mcmoonter (Jan 14, 2008)

Plane tickets booked - check
Bike packing bike - check
Bike packing gear - check

The maps went on sale this morning. I got the first phone ordered set at 8.01 Mountain Time Zone. 

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the sleeps before departure, but its safe to say I'm looking forward to this. 

We don't have hot springs in Scotland so this will be a treat.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mcmoonter said:


> Plane tickets booked - check
> Bike packing bike - check
> Bike packing gear - check
> 
> ...


What time of year are you going?


----------



## koudja (Feb 25, 2007)

Ordered a set via the website. Flawless experience. 

Love this part of Idaho, looking forward to exploring it by bike via this route. Get a membership and support the ACA (you'll also get discount on the maps!).


----------



## mcmoonter (Jan 14, 2008)

September.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey everyone. Our friends in Ketchum need help, now:

While we are all celebrating the launch of this new route, there are good people in a meeting in Ketchum fighting so that we all can all ride it. Please support these local efforts by sending an email to the Blaine County Commissioners saying that you would like to preserve the historic bicycle access to the Boulder White-Cloud Mountains if it were to recieve National Monument designation: jlovell (at) co.blaine.id.us. It really does help.

Here is some more information from the Wood River Bike Coalition﻿ Public Meeting Tuesday re: Boulder-White Clouds - Wood River Bike Coalition

It would be great if the commissioners got back from the meeting with a flood of emails!


----------



## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

I purchased my maps last night at about 10:45EST. 

Flumphboy-I just sent an email to the Commissioners!


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Map set giveaway: Idaho Hot Springs, Singletrack, & Map Giveaway | Adventure Cycling Association


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

JYB, thank you so much for doing that.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

JYB said:


> I purchased my maps last night at about 10:45EST.
> 
> Flumphboy-I just sent an email to the Commissioners!


+1 - email sent as well.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

I will be riding this route in mid July. With 4 others. An old fart tour at a fairly easy pace. If anyone is interested in joining us, just pm me. I will be driving out from the east coast with a half empty car, if that makes it easier. Let me know, harry


----------



## rallyrcr (May 5, 2010)

I definitely want to do this route!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm looking at this route, and the reaction to the new maps on the Adventure Cycling page. Lots of pent-up demand. Looks like there will be traffic jams on the route this summer.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> I'm looking at this route, and the reaction to the new maps on the Adventure Cycling page. Lots of pent-up demand. Looks like there will be traffic jams on the route this summer.


That's why I am waiting until 2015. Let all the hot springs flush out the dirty bikepacker grime from the first season!


----------



## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I can see that waiting to 2015 might mean things are quieter. But it would be fun to be in the first people/groups doing the tour, too. Also, word of mouth is a thing. If the route is as good as it sounds, maybe in year 2, even more people will do the route because they hear about it from their friends.

Either 2014 or 2015 would be way fun.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Last thing I want to do on a dirt tour is see people I didn't come with [unless they are generous and carrying ice cold beer!]. But it's easy enough to choose dates on the edge of the prime season to avoid any peak crowds.


----------



## tim_f (Feb 26, 2014)

I also have my flight booked and now mappes ordered.

Flying in from UK on 21st June and plan to start route on 23rd.

Not sure yet how much of the single track sections I will ride - waiting to study the maps. 
.


----------



## nwmtb (Jan 3, 2004)

Really looking forward to riding a couple sections of it this coming season with my wife. Nice work Casey and ACA !


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

For Casey or anyone that gets 'er done this year I'm interested in which section would be the best [particularly considering singletrack] if you can only do one of the top or bottom loops?


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Not that the top is bad - because it's not - but between the two, bottom, hands down.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

nwmtb said:


> Really looking forward to riding a couple sections of it this coming season with my wife. Nice work Casey and ACA !


Thanks Chad. I almost stopped by last weekend, but the driving was slow, and we had to get to the trailhead, and up the trail to Goldbug before dark. Ill swing by next time.

Have fun in Island Park this weekend!


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

flumphboy said:


> Not that the top is bad - because it's not - but between the two, bottom, hands down.


Thanks. Just want to have options depending on time available and group that's going.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

I agree the bottom ones are the best for singletrack with the Whitecloud option being hands down the best. For those wanting even more singletrack there are defiantly more options along the route to include more sections. Idaho is truly the backcountry single track state.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

smilycook said:


> I agree the bottom ones are the best for singletrack with the Whitecloud option being hands down the best. For those wanting even more singletrack there are defiantly more options along the route to include more sections. Idaho is truly the backcountry single track state.


If anyone wants to GPS other singletrack options I'd be willing to curate and compile and "unofficial" set of GPS tracks.

For someone like me who has to drive 1 day+ each way and ride with a group I can't really "explore" the way somebody more local can.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Vik, All the GPS tracks are done. All you need to do is go to: Idaho Trails

From this site you can export gpx tracks and import them into google earth or other programs. Then you can always post in the Idaho forum for specific trail conditions and direction of travel. I am planning a two day ride from featherville to Sawtooth City and back which includes about 60 miles of singletrack without the need to carry as much gear since you just stay at sawtooth city, which is the half way point. So this would be a good option for people looking for a shorter adventure.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

smilycook said:


> Vik, All the GPS tracks are done. All you need to do is go to: Idaho Trails
> 
> From this site you can export gpx tracks and import them into google earth or other programs. Then you can always post in the Idaho forum for specific trail conditions and direction of travel. I am planning a two day ride from featherville to Sawtooth City and back which includes about 60 miles of singletrack without the need to carry as much gear since you just stay at sawtooth city, which is the half way point. So this would be a good option for people looking for a shorter adventure.


Thanks. That's a great resource. :thumbsup:

If folks ride high quality single-track sections that play nice with the rest of the route I'd love to hear about them and get GPS tracks.

I'm working on an end to end b-packing route on Vancouver Island and getting feedback from the saddle is critical to understanding which route options are worth pursing and which ones are duds.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

We (ACA) will have route tracks, and waypoint for the services and hot springs, ready to go by the end of April.

Personally, I use the "Idaho Topo" base data, with the "Northwest Trails" overlaid on top of it. Both datasets can be found for free here: GPSFileDepot - Idaho Garmin Compatible Maps


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

smilycook said:


> For those wanting even more singletrack there are defiantly more options along the route to include more sections. Idaho is truly the backcountry single track state.


Yes! this is exactly what I hoped people would do. Get in there and create their own trip. To save our ass, we have to suggest people do not use the maps for off-route travel, but I tried to do a thorough job of putting all the trails and roads on there. So, people can at least see that they exist, and do further research. Although as we both know, not all trails exist, like through Ants Basin... 

Basically I tried to create the map that I would want to use.


----------



## VTFargo (Oct 12, 2009)

Just received my map set today!! There is just sooo much information its going to take me some time to go thru it all. This is just so awesome and a great way to spend yet another week of below freezing temps, though riding my fat bike is also fun!


----------



## demondan (Jul 25, 2008)

Ants Basin is the worst rail ever! Hey these maps look great, I will order some and see you all out there!


----------



## jamesframes (May 2, 2008)

I have a trip planned to Stanley (east coaster as well) this summer already...this new option can make things interesting! Just ordered maps-just have to figure out how to manage the pooch


----------



## VermontGal (Mar 2, 2014)

Got my maps today, they look awesome! Very nice job, Casey, of including some things not on previous maps (like the names/numbers of roads that are not on the route). That always drove me crazy about the GDMBR maps.

Several of us in Salt Lake are likely planning trips -- a variety of paces in different groups -- but many of us are talking about it through the SLC Bike Touring / Bikepacking meet-up group. A loaded touring group with 160 members! We are very excited.


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I've got my maps, now I just need to figure out the getting the time to go and someone to go with. I lived in Idaho for 7 summers and liked it a lot. I only started biking at the end of that but I really liked riding the gravel roads of the Palouse and Camas prairies. I was around a lot of this route on a kayaking trip many years ago, it is spectacular country.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

I got my maps last night and they look great. I have ridden or driven on 90% of the route so it is fun to see it all put together!

For those bike packers using BOB trailers the Whitecloud option can be made more BOB friendly by going down the east fork of the Salmon to the Little-Boulder or Big Boulder trailheads and then heading to Chamberlin Basin from there.I have taken my BOB trailer in this area so I am sure it is doable.


----------



## hammockman (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm living in Costa Rica and I was wondering how early in the year this trip might be doable? I know it depends on mother nature but what do you Idahoans think?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Got my maps - thanks ACA and Casey! Too busy working and riding to really study them yet, but we won't be riding the route until Sept 2015 so no rush at this point.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

hammockman said:


> I'm living in Costa Rica and I was wondering how early in the year this trip might be doable? I know it depends on mother nature but what do you Idahoans think?


Late June is probably safe.


----------



## thumbprinter (Aug 29, 2009)

if you are driving to the route, where is the best place near-ish boise to leave a car?


----------



## hammockman (Feb 21, 2014)

Ordered my maps! Don't know if I'll be using them this year or next though. It's my new dream route.


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

We are starting in Ketchum. I have several leads on parking . I just call bike shops and ask for advice?


----------



## koudja (Feb 25, 2007)

Harryonaspot said:


> We are starting in Ketchum. I have several leads on parking . I just call bike shops and ask for advice?


if you have leads, i would just try to contact the lead. i'm going to guess that the bike shop is only going to give you more leads.

leaving a car randomly in downtown ketchum for several days probably won't work. since you're not far from the highway for that section, i would try the SNRA (Sawtooth National Recreation) Visitor Center just north of ketchum first. galena lodge further north may be an option, this might cost some $. and thirdly, depending on time of year, you might be able to keep your car in the parking area at river run lodge, may cost money as well. ketchum is a great town and full of very friendly people, i'm sure within a couple of phone calls you'll have a solid place sorted out.

my favorite two bike shops in ketchum are backwoods mountain sports and the elephant's perch. don't forget a cup of coffee at java on fourth before you leave. monkey fries and a burger at lefty's or a schooner of beer and a burger at grumpys are great options at the end of your ride.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

In addition to the above suggestions - which are preferred - you may have better luck parking in Hailey, then Ketchum. Ask the folks at Powerhouse.

There is a bike path that connects the two towns.


----------



## thumbprinter (Aug 29, 2009)

thanks for the tips!


----------



## crashlongjohns (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm interested in this route. With my two friends we have almost completed the Arizona Trail from Mexico to Utah bikepacking the sections we can and backpacking the other sections due to being in the wilderness areas. We only have about 1/3 left. What I would like to know and after to help see if feasible for a trip and time is mileage from point to point sections? This would allow me to calculate our time to be able to complete the whole loop. We would start in Ketchum and end in Ketchum. Appreciate the info you can share.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Could you clarify this sentence?



crashlongjohns said:


> What I would like to know and after to help see if feasible for a trip and time is mileage from point to point sections?


----------



## crashlongjohns (Dec 19, 2013)

Flumphboy - sorry if that did not make sense. What I am referring to is something like the following example from the AZT website as follows: ATA - Passages that can be viewed. This way I know from each segment the distance between landmarks. Example Ketchum to Atlanta to Idaho City to Crouch to McCall via Eagle's Nest Option then North Shore Lodge via Secesh Option, North Shore to Stanley then to Ketchum via White Cloud Option. Appreciate the assist on the information.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

We do not have that info online right now, but it is accessible on the maps.

Here are the lengths of each singletrack section:
White Clouds: 66.9
Secesh: 75.2
Eagle's Nest: 48.4
Willow Creek: 37.0

If you would ride the whole main route + all of the singletrack options, the milage would be just under 639.


----------



## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

flumphboy said:


> In addition to the above suggestions - which are preferred - you may have better luck parking in Hailey, then Ketchum. Ask the folks at Powerhouse.
> 
> There is a bike path that connects the two towns.


There is park and ride near the YMCA in Ketchum, across from the Big Wood Pres. Church. Park in the area furthest away from the Y. Probably could find a spot there. Easy access out Warm Springs road that way. Down in Hailey, there are not many public lots, at least near The Powerhouse. SNRA would work too, but is a ways out. River Run dirt lot (upper level) at the River Run entrance to the ski area, does not cost anything during touring months either, at least at this time. that would be a good option as well. Again, easy cycling access along the bike path out Warm Springs.


----------



## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Going to try a little piece of this overall trail this weekend, accessing near Fairfield and starting at Worswick Hot Springs and working west to Featherville then out. Car supported family trip. We are focusing on springs NOT in the river due to it obviously being runoff season.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

How did it go?


----------



## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

flumphboy said:


> How did it go?


Great! I will do a report tonight. The maps were a great help in planning out a trip that suited our family needs.


----------



## sunvalleylaw (Jun 21, 2010)

flumphboy said:


> How did it go?


So this worked out great for us to do a small section of the overall trail as a car supported family trip. We drove in from Fairfield over Couch Summit, then headed out to Worswick Hot Springs. We were going to drop cyclists and bike in from the top of Couch but got a late start and were worried about finding camping. No worries. Worked out great!

The Worswick Springs were in good shape, and there was plenty of camping nearby.

Next day we cycled about 10 miles west along the So. fork of the Boise River to Canyon Transfer camp, and set up camp there. The stronger cyclists then mountain biked in a burly single track, with some scree sloughs, to Skillern Hot Springs.this was not a beginner mountain bike, so care was needed. It is approximately 3.1 miles in one way. Some exposure on some scree and rock crossings. Skillern is a very nice spring, with a waterfall falling into the basin we used. Nice temp. But could use some work on the basin. Was a bit shallow. If we had brought a tarp or liner we could have helped it out. Still a very nice and picturesque soak. There was another spring right in the river, but that was impacted at this time by runoff. The campground was great, and only had one other couple using it.

The next day we had planned on cycling about 18 miles to Baumgartner Hot Spring and campground, but that area is closed right now due to last year's fire, and a destabilized steep hillside that has thrown a boulder down into the campground and could shed burned timber. The rangers say they may open later this season, but are not sure. Too bad, as we were thinking a nice group soak in an improved spring, along with a shower and etc. would be nice.

Instead we went on to the Willow Creek area, still further west along the So. Fork Boise. We found a good, unimproved campsite, and found the springs. Could be a nice spring (about a mile out a single track) but also needs some work to make it a better soak. Still worth it.

Last day, we cycled out toward Featherville and turned that way, instead of continuing the route up toward Rocky Bar and Atlanta. Too early to get there yet due to snow. But we found springs at the Elk Flats campground, also known as Bridge Hot Springs, to soak our feet on our way out. From there, we drove back home to Hailey. Very enjoyable, and your map helped me plan a trip that was attainable for us, with cyclists ranging from 11 through adult. You can find some pics here if anyone is interested:

(Click on the pics and you will get a "story" of pics to view on Photobucket)



We had heard about this trip (overall route) years ago but had never done it due to kids' ages. Your map really helped us pull it together. We plan on knocking off other sections of the route as time allows. Thanks again!


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Awesome! Nice trip and photos.


----------



## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Great trip!


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Anyone intending ride this loop in the next few weeks?

The recommended time window is shortly upon us (late June to late July per the ACA website) so I'm considering making the drive over from Seattle and riding the loop in the next few weeks. Curious if others are planning similar timelines.

Also curious if any locals can confirm the full loop is snow-free and/or cleared of downfall (on singletrack sections).


----------



## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

my freinds and I are starting in Ketchum on 7/18. pm me if you want to talk
Harry


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

The willow creek trail as a singletrack option still has about 8-10 down trees and patches of snow as of Saturday. Other than the down trees the trail was in great shape and a blast. I just did the trail as an out and back. I think all the trees should be cut out by July 4th by the dirt bikers.


----------



## Sky King (Jun 23, 2014)

Some of our friends are out at the moment, they did run into some closed roads but that was to motorized. If you are on Facebook - go to Southwest Idaho Bike Camping - group page and you can see Dylan's posts


----------



## paulmt (Jan 4, 2012)

My wife and I are headed out for a week long trip starting next Monday. Planning to do a loop using the northern part of the main route with the Lowman cutoff. Hope to see some folks out there.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

GPS data is here:

Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route GPS Data | Adventure Cycling Route Network | Adventure Cycling Association


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

flumphboy said:


> GPS data is here:


Awesome, thanks Casey! Just in the nick of time.

Nice timing . . . I just got my maps in the mail this morning. Can't wait to go hit the trail.

Looks like lots of potential for singletrack diversions during the ride (stashing bags and grabbing a quick, liberating baggage-free loop ride). The obvious one to me was to hit the Fisher Creek / Williams Creek loop. Any other suggestions in this regard? Obviously IMBA and mtbproject.com can lead the way, but first-person suggestions are always welcome.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

If you can make the logistics work, Little Boulder Creek Trail is a must.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

flumphboy said:


> If you can make the logistics work, Little Boulder Creek Trail is a must.


Thanks! How do I best connect to it, over Castle Divide? Loop back via Germain Creek?

Also, any idea how rideable is the ~ 2 mile section of Williams/104 that lies north of the Fisher/332 trail junction, and south of Warm Springs trail (point R on the singletrack narrative)?? I'm considering a lollipop loop from point R. I rode Fisher/Williams many years ago, and liked it, but did it as a loop, so didn't ride the section I'm inquiring about.
EDIT: answered my own question . . . per mtbproject this is called Pig Trail and it rides both ways no problem. So the lollipop should be straightforward.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

smilycook said:


> The willow creek trail as a singletrack option still has about 8-10 down trees and patches of snow as of Saturday. Other than the down trees the trail was in great shape and a blast. I just did the trail as an out and back. I think all the trees should be cut out by July 4th by the dirt bikers.


The snow patches were presumably around Decker Creek Summit?

That's some of the highest elevation on the whole loop, so if that was passable recently, I'm guessing/hoping that the even higher passes midway on the White Cloud option should be passable in 2 weeks when I expect to be riding them?

Now that I've got the maps in my hands, I'm getting a terrible case of pre-trip excitement.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> Thanks! How do I best connect to it, over Castle Divide? Loop back via Germain Creek?


Castle Divide or you could go over Gladiator and down the east fork and then do a big boulder to little boulder loop.

Germania Creek is steep near the East Fork and there is a fair amount of loose rocks near the east fork. The trail only gets better and is really good above where Chamberlain creek comes in.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

InertiaMan said:


> The snow patches were presumably around Decker Creek Summit?
> 
> That's some of the highest elevation on the whole loop, so if that was passable recently, I'm guessing/hoping that the even higher passes midway on the White Cloud option should be passable in 2 weeks when I expect to be riding them?
> 
> Now that I've got the maps in my hands, I'm getting a terrible case of pre-trip excitement.


The higher passes will certainly be passable in 2 weeks. There might be some small snow banks to climb over. I will be in the area July 12/13 for a loop from Featherville to Smiley Creek Lodge and back.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

smilycook said:


> I will be in the area July 12/13 for a loop from Featherville to Smiley Creek Lodge and back.


Are you heading through Ross Fork Basin?


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

smilycook said:


> The higher passes will certainly be passable in 2 weeks. There might be some small snow banks to climb over. I will be in the area July 12/13 for a loop from Featherville to Smiley Creek Lodge and back.


I'll be trying to ride/push that section too. We're riding the whole loop CC starting in Idaho City on the 18th and will be riding the Ross Fork basin to Alturas Lake to cut the total mileage a little shorter.

Like this: Idaho Hot Spings MTB Route - Ross Fork Basin Shortcut - Camas, ID

Do you you (or anyone else) know if that goes through? It appears to, at least from a careful google earth flyover.

Thanks!


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

flumphboy said:


> Are you heading through Ross Fork Basin?


We are considering it. If we do we will ride up the east fork of skeleton creek and then drop into Ross Fork Basin.

We may also just go up and over on paradise creek and then emma creek and descend west fork of big smokey.

I am waiting to hear which trails got cleared before making a final decision.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

gabrielamadeus said:


> I'll be trying to ride/push that section too. We're riding the whole loop CC starting in Idaho City on the 18th and will be riding the Ross Fork basin to Alturas Lake to cut the total mileage a little shorter.
> 
> Like this: Idaho Hot Spings MTB Route - Ross Fork Basin Shortcut - Camas, ID
> 
> ...


Ross Fork Basin is generally in good shape and connects. Parts of the trail burned about 2 years ago. Lots of options in that area. There is also Vienna and Emma Creeks.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

If you want a good topo on the trails in the Smokey Mountains stop by Moto 1 in Boise. They have maps from a guy named Bill Dart, who puts difficulty and trail condition on his maps. 

If the trail crews go through the smokey's I will post up the info.


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

smilycook said:


> Ross Fork Basin is generally in good shape and connects. Parts of the trail burned about 2 years ago. Lots of options in that area. There is also Vienna and Emma Creeks.


Cheers, thanks for the beta!


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Not sure where I even got this track from, but does anyone have any beta on this singletrack shortcut between Idaho City and the N Fork of the Boise R?

Idaho City to Arrowrock reservoir - A bike ride in Idaho City, ID


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

This is a very doable route from Idaho City to Arrowrock. The dirt road is in excellent shape and is of moderate grades. Looks like you are going to descend Haga Creek which is a good trail, but does have some serious exposure starting about halfway down. There are also a lot of steep switchbacks all of which are rideable depending on your ability level. Another option is go down cottonwood creek, but this will dump you on further west.

If you want more beta you can always catch me in Boise on your way out. I can give you the low down on most trails in southern idaho.



gabrielamadeus said:


> Not sure where I even got this track from, but does anyone have any beta on this singletrack shortcut between Idaho City and the N Fork of the Boise R?
> 
> Idaho City to Arrowrock reservoir - A bike ride in Idaho City, ID


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

smilycook said:


> Castle Divide or you could go over Gladiator and down the east fork and then do a big boulder to little boulder loop.
> 
> Germania Creek is steep near the East Fork and there is a fair amount of loose rocks near the east fork. The trail only gets better and is really good above where Chamberlain creek comes in.


Thanks smilycook.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Nice find Gabriel, that Haga Creek "short cut" sounds interesting. Perhaps Casey planned the main route moving further west here to help provide the spur to Boise, and to keep the main route off trail. And its too short to justify full "singletrack option" treatment on the maps. But for those of us not connecting to Boise, and planning to ride singletrack, is this short-cut a preferable option? It saves ~23 miles (7 vs. 30) and adds singletrack . . . that sounds good to me. 

Smilycook, if you were doing this, what would you do?

Casey, any reasons not to consider this option?
(you must be rolling your eyes, seeing how barely anyone has ridden your loop yet, and we're already tweaking it!  )


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

I think Casey just had some hard decisions since there is just endless variations of this route. His singletrack options just scratch the surface of the possibilities since there are so many ways to go on amazing trails. I don't have my maps in front of me, but will look at them tonight and offer some suggestions. The key to enjoying any of these singletrack sections is to keep your bike as light as possible. 

How much singletrack do you want? There are many options along the way. 

If it was me I would go down Cottonwood or Hungarian Ridge over Haga Creek. Cottonwood is along the route while Hungarian would require going further east of the main route. 

I am riding Big Smokey Creek this weekend and would consider that another amazing detour, just depends on how crazy you want to get and how much time you have.

My suggestion is to PM me when you are headed through town and I can go over the maps with you. If you go off route you will also need a Sawtooth, Boise, and Payette National Forest maps set.


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Thanks for all the beta. Unfortunately I doubt we'll have time to stop in Boise before the trip. Thus the Haga and Ross Basin shortcuts. We'll be on a more relaxed schedule past stanley though and hope to add in more stuff up there. I grabbed the McCall and Sawtooth/WC Adventure trail maps, if we have time where's the best place to grab FS maps in Boise? 

I'm Gabe (503-381-4456), send me your number and I'll get in touch if we squeeze out some extra time on the way out there! PS: my friend & really rad dude Ryan King just moved to Boise. He's a solid rider and bike builder if you ever need an adventure buddy.


----------



## tim_f (Feb 26, 2014)

*Tim's ride of the Main Loop and a bit of Singletrack.*

Completed main Loop last Tuesday and returned to the UK today.

I was riding a rigid Salsa Fargo with panniers.

my track is here - https://share.delorme.com/timfield

Will be publsihed extended story on crazyguyonabike.com in due course with photos.

My maps are with my baggage which missed a connection so some names my be wrong.

This is how my trip panned out

DAY 1 Monday 23rd June.

Left my Warm showers hosts in Boise about 8.00 and followed Boise Greenbelt cycle route up to Sandy Point rec areas where I joined Boise Spur route.

Reached Neinmiyer camp-site - warm spring pool under water - about 18:00

Day 2 Tuesday

Cycled up to Atlanta and got their about lunchtime. Had cheeseburger and apple pie at the Beaver lodge bar. Both very good particularly the apple pie. Went to hot spring and camped at riverside camp-site. Bar lady at Beaver lodge is also forrest services camp-site person and has good info on which hot spring and which camp-site to use.

* Atlanta well worth a visit *

Day 3 Wednesday.

Started Willowcreek singletrack about 8.00. climb up past mine is steep but ridable apart from soft area where mine is working on road. Mine guys told me that I would be doing a lot of pushing later.....

Singletrack section starts well a lot ridable for me but had to get off for looser and /or steper bits.

A lot of trees down and not trivial to get bike over.

But the top section was epic, lots of steep snow patches, I had to kick steps with my feet and carry bike and panniers separately.

Reached Decker Creek summit about 18:00.

Trail down was covered with snow so took me about an hour and a half to get down to ridable section.

Reached Willow creek camp ground about 23.45 by Petzl headtorch light. Trail got more ridable for me the futher I got down.

* Too early in season to make this section anything but an epic due to combination of snow and downed trees from lack of tyre marks in snow think I was first across this year *

Day 4 Thursday

Only go going about 9:00 because of late finish.

original plan had been to back track to Featherville to get some more food. But due to late start decided not to but instead stop and cook some pasta at lunchtime.

Was tired from the previous day so found climb to Dollarhide summit hard compounded by altitude. Was going so slowly on final mile and stopping so much that ended up getting off and pushing bike at a steady 3 mph.

Descent need attention because road was in poor condition.

Reached Ketchum about 21:00 tired and hungry and went straight to supermarket for Bagels, cookies, orange juice and a yoghurt, which al tasted great.

Chatted to a guy who suggested Lift tower lodge Motel

Room was about $99 and was fine.

Day 5 Friday

In morning went to Laundrette and to supermarket to get more food.

Laundrette is attached to Grumpies bar on route in to town. Opens about 9:00. Bar can give change for machines.

There are 2 in town both upmarket and expensive.

Started to rain about 11:00 so sat on porch until rain stopped about 13:00. Just out of town started raining heavily again so took shelter.

Stopped at Sawtooth Park visitor centrer and got Harrison & Galena trail map and black wide mountain bike trail guide.

Got board of the Harrison Trail a bit before Galena Lodge so joined main highway for a a few miles.

Convinced my self that something was wrong with bike front end so adjusted headset tension, and cleaned dirt from behind front axel bearing dust covers to get rid of squeak.

I was sceptical that I was in the right place when starting the old tol road trail section, but it is exactly as described in the route narrative.

Camped wild on trail on 'old toll road' section.

*** Old toll road section is not to be missed ******

Day 6 Saturday

Day started cold but with no rain (and it was not to rain again during trip)

When old toll road trail reached the highway I decided to complete climb on the highway, not much traffic at that time and description indicated trail was rough.

Met some roadies on summit and put on warm gloves for descent down old toll road trail.

Excellent descent.

Followed trail through to Stanley, a great days riding, but getting hot towards end of day.

Signs indicated redfish lake camper grounds were full, but fanced a shower and bed so took a room at Mountain Village Motel at Stanley. ( I asked about camping at their RV park but they do not do that. Room was about $90

So liked Stanley that I decided to stay a 2nd night

So on Sunday cycled out with out my luggage up to Redfish lake.

At visitor centre there looked at a mountain biking guide book and learnt about a MTB trail around the lake and decided to do it. A nice technical trail just right for my rigid Salsa Fargo. Climbs out rigid on one side of lake then descents to far end (where I had a dip in the lake) and then climbs by switchbacks up the ridge on the other side. Trail just touches boundary of wilderness area. It was great and back at Redfish lodge a band was playing on the grass, so I sat in the shade and listened to them for a couple of hours. Then back to Stanley for a shower and Pizza. Did not have time to sort out a dip in the motel's private hot spring.

* Supermarket at Mouintain Village is very well stocked and reasonably priced *

Day 8 Monday

As I was leaving met a group of 4 guys rising the main loop accompanied by 2 of their wives driving their gear in a 4X4. They were having to get a wheel fixed, but exchanged plans for the day and said we might all meet at Bear Valley campground.

Ride was very good, good dirt roads with no significant traffic. At lunchtime met the 4 guys who had got wheel fixed and then had taken highway to make up time, but where then waiting for their wives to arrive with lunch. So beat them to Bear valley camp-ground. Camp-ground was almost full as lot of native tribe people camping. It was good to chat with the seniors of the tribe and them to show their spear fishing techniques.

The river was good to swim in (away from where people were fishing.

The 4 guys rolled in about a hour later than me and then Mike who was doing the main loop in the opposite direction arrived.

The 4 guys group kindly invited me and Mike to a very goof meal of chicken and rice. It was good to sit around the fire after the meal and chat about our shared lover of the outdoors and rest of our lives.

Day 9 Tuesday

Got going well before the 4 guys and had a good day with a few climbs and descents, reached Warm Lake in early afternoon. The final descent was on tarmac and great fun, like being on a alpine descent. Pleased oh how well I count corner on the 2.1 Smart Sam tyres.

Was warm so after a cold drink and ice cream from lodge retreated to the shade of the picnic ground 'no car' campsite (just past lodge).

About 6:00 went for a wonderful swim from the rocks below camp-site. 
Lake was nice temperature (but not warm)

Had good meal from Lodge and chatted with a group of young cycle tourist doing their own Idaho loop with more tarmac and less dirt.

** Store at lodge only has non perisahable supplies - tins, pasta etc.****

Day 10 Wednesday

said goodbye to the 4 guys as they were taking the highway to Cascade due to lack of time.

Descended down Salmon river, on tarmac, (though with some climbs ) lots of fisherman. Had a dip in 16 mile hot spring. (look for it soon after 15 mile post - I did not look until I got to 16 and had to go back)

Then back on dirt road and started climbing again. Here I had my only flat tire of the trip, which I quickly patched. Did not find anything in tyre, so guess it was a sharp road chip.

Stopped at Ponderoser Pines campground at 13:30. It was very hot even in the shade. It was too quiet after being with people for the last few nights as no one else was camping. My small radio could not get a signal at all. Very pleased when it got cool enough again to cook and read.

***camp has water pump***

Day 11 Thursday

Continued up Lick Creek Climb and got to summit 11ish to decided to ride the last bit of Sech single track section in the opposite direction to the guide and then take the highway to McCall.

The initial climb up to Duck Lake was very good, rideable with out downed trees blocking the trail, so it looked good for the descent down the other side. I had told my self that if I found a problem with this bit I would turn around. The descent started well, but then I came to lots of downed trees which were high above the trail, it was hard to get bike over them even after removing panniers. A 2nd person would have made it so much easier. It was joy to hear trail bikers (on motorbikes) coming the other way which meant no more trees across the trail.

Very good to get down to the lake and filter some more water and take highway to McCall. The idea of taking a Motel room was in my mind as a struggles with the trees but getting to McCall I realised that being ththe 4th July holiday weekend everywhere would be full. So camped at RV park and campaground beyond airport.

I expecteded a noisy night and I was right so did nor hurry to bed until past midnight.

*** two very goof supermarkets in McCall, good value with good selection. one near airport sells campstove 'european' butane /propane mix light weight cartridges and dried backpacking meals at resonable prices ***

Guy invited me to stay for 4th July party in the afternoon but I wanted to get on and avoid another noisy night.

Day 12 Friday 4th July.

Route leaves town for the dirt roads of the Long Valley past the finish farmsteads.

I reached the historic town of Rosebery about 12:00, it was very hot and the Museum did not open until latter, so headed off route to town of Donnely for a cool drink and a ice cream, then down to Lake Cascade for some shade and a rest. Found a good shady spot in the picnic shelter by the boat launch. The Latino group having a picnic party their offered me food and cool water and I read and had a swim. When it was cooler at 4.00 I got back on my bike and headed back to Rosebery. On the way a guy out in front of his house with his family and friends who I had chatted with earlier waived me down to stop and meet his friends - and he got me to have a go at badminton - which i failed to master - last time I tried was about 35 years ago. he ivited me to camp in his garden but I had not gone far that day son continued.

The museum town at Rosebery was very good - the town 'died' when the railway missed town by a mile and a new down was build by teh railway.

Abut 5:00 I got going again and camped wild on Gold Fork river. Lower down it is private land but higher up land is public and there are lots of camping spots by the river.

Day 13 Saturday 5th July

Day started with climb to Eagle Nest where single Track section starts.

At first I did not spot start of trail even though it was right in front of my eyes. So ended up deciding I was in wrong place and continuing on main route. Realised I had been in correct place and went back.

The route description says trail starts with a short climb. At first I could ride it but then I got too tired and the trail too steep and so I ended up pushing. Took about 1 hour to get to top of trail, but trail free of trees across trail ;-).

Descent was great, but hard of body on rigid bike, so when I go to road crossing I choose to follow dirt road the rest of the way particularly as the single track had another section of climb. Perhaps I should have missed the top section and ridden the lower section?

** watch out for the cool water spring on the main route after joining warm lake road ***

I got to cascade about 14:00 and had a rest in the shade in the park for a hours or so.

**** Cascade has a good supermarket and a 'Family Dollar' store which is very good value - I was able to replace broken sunglasses for $8.00 - I also go fig roles and dried fruit ***

I continued past Cascade lake to Clear Creek Station RV park

Good value at $7.00 for camping with showers.

They had a very good blues/rock band playing for a 5th July party. The band played from 6:00 to 10:00 so no problem with late noise. A very good evening.

**** have very small small store selling basic stuff ****

Day 15 Sunday 6th July.

Climbed up and over to Boiling Point Campground where I stopped for a long lunchbreak spent in the shade sitting on a tree root with my feet in the river.

Then another climb over to Silver Creek plunge pool camp ground.

The hot springs feed a swimming pool ($8.00 admission after 8:00 $10.00 all day) this pool was very welcome as it relieved something in my arm that I had hurt somehow on the descent. I am glad I did not stop at the 1st campground after the descent.

Day 16 Monday 7th July

Climbed over to Crouch and arrived at midday , very hot buy hung out in air conditioned seating area at supermarket for a few hours reading.

**** supermarket has good selection and is good value ****

Then moved on to Library which is on way out of town, coold with good internet connection - Wi-fi and computers.

Left library about 5:00. Reached Placeville at five past seven just as shop had closed, and soda can vending machine outside was out of order.

***** Placeville shiop looked like it had good selection of food even though it is a general store *****

Reached Idaho City about 21.00 and took room in Idaho City Lodge Hotel  $65.00 a night mid week.

****Owner of Lodge can sort out car parking whilst on route.****

**** 2 small supermarkets in town - one open to 22:00 ***

Cooked on stove in car park as all earing paces closd by time I had showered.

Day 17 Tuesday 8th July

Hanged out in Holel until Museum opened at 11:00, then extended lunch at 'Donnas place' and then hang out at library.

Got going when it was cooler at 16:00.

3000 feet of climbing.

reached highpoint at dusk, and then climbed futher to lookoout.

amazing sunset - red sky.

met shepherd with flock of sheep.

very scenic ride along ridge before dececending to cottonwood creek.

Ride to complete route at Cottonwood campsite completed by moonlight (almost full moon) and petzl headtorch.

*** Cottonwood campsite is unsigned and on opprosite side of creek from dirtroad. ***

Day 18 Wednesday 9th June.

Main loop now completed.

Followed Boise spur along Arrowrock resevoir to Sandypoint rec area where I swam in the lake - nice temperature of water, then followe dBosie Green Belt cycle path back to Boise (rather that ACA route to airport)

Any questions happy top answer.

Big thanks to Casey, Adventure Cycling, everyone I met, and my hosts in Boise from warmshowers.org.

Tim


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice writeup. Glad you had a good time.

As a general rule the high passes are unrideable until July 4th or later. I ran into the trail crews this weekend in the willow creek area and they were working there way through the high trails.


----------



## howrad (Feb 17, 2012)

Can anyone familiar with the lower singletrack (Willow Creek and White Cloud) segments comment on tire preferences? I'm heading out there with gabrielamadeus this Friday, and I have 2.2 Geax Saguaros mounted now. 

Considering going to 2.4 Ardents for comfort and loose stuff, since I'm riding a rigid 29er. Very appreciative to both Casey and the commenters for all the beta so far!


----------



## dsid (Jul 15, 2014)

Great hearing about everyone's trip and planning thus far! I'm headed down to ride the route in early August and am PUMPED. Currently, I've got a BOB YAK trailer and am wondering if anyone has done the trip with one yet. I've done a good amount of riding/overnights with the BOB and feel confident with it in tow. I am a little apprehensive about the singletrack & BOB combo, however. Any thoughts or experience with a BOB on this route would be appreciated.

Pedal on


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

howrad said:


> Can anyone familiar with the lower singletrack (Willow Creek and White Cloud) segments comment on tire preferences? I'm heading out there with gabrielamadeus this Friday, and I have 2.2 Geax Saguaros mounted now.
> 
> Considering going to 2.4 Ardents for comfort and loose stuff, since I'm riding a rigid 29er. Very appreciative to both Casey and the commenters for all the beta so far!


Well it is a tossup. The 2.2s will be nicer on the roads than the 2.4s, but with the bike being fully rigid then 2.4s might be a good choice to smooth things out. We generally ride 2.4 to 2.5 in the Smokey and Whitecloud area.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

You will be fine on the road with the BOB, but will need to modify the Whitecloud singletrack to make it BOB friendly. I would take the road at Bowery Guard Station and then go up little boulder.



dsid said:


> Great hearing about everyone's trip and planning thus far! I'm headed down to ride the route in early August and am PUMPED. Currently, I've got a BOB YAK trailer and am wondering if anyone has done the trip with one yet. I've done a good amount of riding/overnights with the BOB and feel confident with it in tow. I am a little apprehensive about the singletrack & BOB combo, however. Any thoughts or experience with a BOB on this route would be appreciated.
> 
> Pedal on


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Here is a short write up from a ride in the Smokeys to give you an idea of the area:
Smiley Creek Loop


----------



## dsid (Jul 15, 2014)

Looks awesome, thanks!


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

07/16/2014 - 3 lightning caused wildfire which are being managed as the "Whiskey Complex" (see EDIT below) between Placerville and Garden Valley. It has also closed the Hot Springs Campground on the Lowman Cutoff. It is advised riders stay off the Lowman Cutoff west of Lowman as well.

Current updated info here: InciWeb the Incident Information System: Whiskey Complex
Closure area map as of 07/15/2014 here: http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/IDBO...Complex/picts/2014_07_15-20.49.54.620-CDT.pdf
Modify message

EDIT: The Main Route is not closed, but all areas to the immediate east of the road are. This could change at any moment. So, please use caution on Alder Creek Rd.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

smilycook said:


> I think Casey just had some hard decisions since there is just endless variations of this route. His singletrack options just scratch the surface of the possibilities since there are so many ways to go on amazing trails.


Nailed it, smily.

And, the biggest constraint of the main route is that it has to be dirt roads/no singletrack to allow for folks doing heavy-touring-bob-trailer-pannier style. Also, if we would've used that option there would have been less hot springs on the main route, another constraint which I faced with the routing.

In addition, I really wanted people to get out and create their own routes. So, far I have not read a trip report where someone did not take a deviation from my original routing. Which, is awesome. Both maps are a great place to start and have great routing, but there is so much opportunity to do whatever additional trails and roads that folks are up for.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

dsid said:


> I am a little apprehensive about the singletrack & BOB combo, however. Any thoughts or experience with a BOB on this route would be appreciated.


As stated on the maps, I highly recommend not using a BOB for any of the singletrack sections


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Okay, more questions! White Clouds:

We're thinking of extending our time up there with the Boulder Creeks and Frog Lk Loop. We'll spend a night in the Chamberlain Basin and then skirt the southern flank of Castle Peak to get to the trails. Is there another way to re-connect to the official route, or will we have to re-trace this trail? Everything farther north looks pretty mountain-y, but perhaps there's a northwest passage or a tunnel or something that I haven't found yet.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

The passage is in the form of a couloir down to Born Lakes. It's steep, loose, and something Ive been wanting to do for awhile. There have been riders who have done it. Access it by heading up past Windy Devil out of the Boulder Chain Lakes. I saw Boy Scouts with pack goats going up it last year. Don't let that fool you though, heading downhill with a loaded bike it is truly a no-fall-zone. Very, very dangerous to those without mountaineering or climbing or backcountry skiing experience.









Also, if/when the National Monument passes the Boulder Chain Lakes will be shut down to bikes. So, get it while you can.

Smily, you have any experience up there?


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

The boulder chain lakes have very little riding and more hiking. Your first challenge at the top of the chain lakes is a switchbacking talas field. There is a trail, but you need to be carrying your bike to make it up the switchbacks. You then crest the windy devil pass and have to go down devil's slide as shown in the picture. I have slid down that couloir twice with a mountain bike on my shoulders and a small day pack. How heavy is your bike going to be? The consequences for error are basically a 800 ft tumbling fall onto talas. It is steep and loose the whole way down.


My recommendation is descend the Grand Prize Trail to Bowery Guard Station and then take the East Fork Road to the big Boulder trail. Take the big boulder trail into frog lake and then from Frog lake use the Castle Divide Trail to go over and into the Chamberlin Basin. Then you are back on the main route.


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

flumphboy said:


> The passage is in the form of a couloir down to Born Lakes. It's steep, loose, and something Ive been wanting to do for awhile. There have been riders who have done it. Access it by heading up past Windy Devil out of the Boulder Chain Lakes. I saw Boy Scouts with pack goats going up it last year. Don't let that fool you though, heading downhill with a loaded bike it is truly a no-fall-zone. Very, very dangerous to those without mountaineering or climbing or backcountry skiing experience.
> 
> View attachment 908805
> 
> ...





smilycook said:


> The boulder chain lakes have very little riding and more hiking. Your first challenge at the top of the chain lakes is a switchbacking talas field. There is a trail, but you need to be carrying your bike to make it up the switchbacks. You then crest the windy devil pass and have to go down devil's slide as shown in the picture. I have slid down that couloir twice with a mountain bike on my shoulders and a small day pack. How heavy is your bike going to be? The consequences for error are basically a 800 ft tumbling fall onto talas. It is steep and loose the whole way down.
> 
> My recommendation is descend the Grand Prize Trail to Bowery Guard Station and then take the East Fork Road to the big Boulder trail. Take the big boulder trail into frog lake and then from Frog lake use the Castle Divide Trail to go over and into the Chamberlin Basin. Then you are back on the main route.


Yeah, that sounds a little ridiculous. Fun, but perhaps not for this trip!

Your suggestion makes a lot more sense, but we'll just miss the Little Boulder descent. Ah well, can't do it all.

Thanks for the quick replies!


----------



## hydepark (Jul 23, 2007)

We have the ACA maps here in Boise at Bike Touring News. Stop in and see us if you are beginning or ending in Boise!


----------



## lepetitbrevet (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the information on this route. Big thanks to casey for creating it!
Nice write up Tim, you said you rode fully rigid, how was that? 
How technical are the single track options? Are they ridable fully rigid or would a hard tail be heaps better? 
I understand about compromises, just trying to get a feel for it from across the ocean in NZ. I have toured the GDMBR but there is bugger all single track on that.
Any advice welcomed. Planning on touring IHS next year. 
Thanks, Scott


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

lepetitbrevet said:


> How technical are the single track options? Are they ridable fully rigid or would a hard tail be heaps better?


The Whitecloud singletrack is the most technical and I can't imagine riding any of the singletrack options fully rigid. At a minimum you will want a hardtail for the singletrack options. As mentioned earlier you could include a lot more singletrack depending on your fitness and technical level.


----------



## tim_f (Feb 26, 2014)

lepetitbrevet said:


> Nice write up Tim, you said you rode fully rigid, how was that?
> How technical are the single track options? Are they ridable fully rigid or would a hard tail be heaps better?
> Thanks, Scott


I was only expecting to ride some of the Singletrack and planned my equipment accordingly.

I do have a suspension fork for my Salsa fargo but the air seals failed after a few rides and it had to go back to be repaired, I got used to riding the singletrack around home with the Salsa steel fork the frame came with. Did not allow long enough to properly test the suspension fork when it came back. I think if I had not swoped it out I would probably have taken it.

If I had intended to ride all the singletrack I would have taken the suspension fork.

I found the Salsa much better than I expected with the rigid fork on the singletrack, with the On-One Midge dirt drops as they allow you to easily control the bike from hooks whilst holding them loosely. Going down hill it was good to sit off the back of the saddle and let the front just go over stuff. [ It was so much better than my first rigid mountain bike from the 90's which I rode again along a rocky trail here in the UK (Langdale in the Lakes) to get to the start of a walk in early June.]

In Idaho when it was too rough I go t off and walked for a bit this would have been the case with a suspension fork because I was on my own and did not want to take risks but to a lesser extent.

I could ride stuff with the rigid but I was slower and it tired out my body. For example on the way down from the high 'start' of Eagle Nest I rode more than 90% of the descent until I got to the road crossing. At the point I was tired and decided to ride the fireroad rather then the single track to the 2nd road crossing. In some ways this very fast descent of the fire road was more of an adrenalin rush that riding the single track slowly.

For the singletrack I did most of it was perfectly ridable with out a suspension fork, but the bits where I had to get off, or unclip and go slowly, when I might not have had with a suspension fork spoilt the flow a bit.

NB - I did not ride any of the Whitecloud single track.

If you plan to ride all the single track I would take a suspension fork, if you are not going t ride all of it (for example due to lack of time) then you can stil have a good experience on a rigid.

What I would take if I was going to ride all the single track is another person to make lifting bikes over trees over the trail so much easier. As I had panniers it was easy to dismount luggage and reduce bike weight, even then is was hard manoeuvring the bike over trees above knee hight with out luggage. It would have been so much easier with a 2nd person.


----------



## lepetitbrevet (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the replies Tim and smilycook.
We will be touring in a bikepacking style rather than with panniers, so hope to do as much singletrack as possible.
Sounds like forks are the go. 
Still keen to hear others input also.
Thanks, Scott


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Awesome trip reports and photos!

Keep them coming. I am very interested in hearing what everyone likes and dislikes about the route.

Also, I've been hearing that some riders are perhaps underestimating the language on the maps in regard to the singletrack sections. I cannot emphasize enough that all of the Singletrack Options are true bikepacking epics. This is real-deal backcountry singletrack mountain biking. These options can be extremely difficult if you are coming from a manicured-front-country singletrack background. Or, a dirt/paved road touring background. Riders absolutely need to plan for encountering obstacles such as downed trees, rutted out trails, long hike-a-bikes, and moving water crossings. If those situations are in any way unappealing, I recommend not attempting any of the Singletrack Options.

If the appeal is still there, plan for being out there longer then expected. Which means packing more food as well.
A conservative recommended allowance of time for each option:
Willow Creek - 2 days
White Clouds - 4 days
Secesh - 4 days
Eagles Nest - 2.5 days

A little beta on the Secesh Option as of 07/29/14: The Twentymile Trail has been fully cleared in the past few day by moto riders and volunteers. Trail crews are working on Bear Pete right now.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

An unusual amount of precipitation in the past 48 hours have cause a number of landslides on FR 227 between Featherville and Ketchum.

- There is one slide on the Featherville side (Fairfield Ranger District) between Skeleton Creek and Big Smoky Creek. If you are coming out of Featherville, the road is closed at at Skeleton Creek. Baumgartner Campground and it's hot spring pool are Open.
- There area at least 2 slides on the Ketchum side (Ketchum Ranger District). The road is closed between Dollarhide Summit and Rooks Creek. The road is closed at Rooks Creek if you are coming out of Ketchum. Access to Frenchmans Bend and Wairfield is still available.

There is no timeline to clear the slides. Depending on the severity, it could super fast, or it could take months. 2 examples in the region to illustrate this: 1) Last year there were numerous slides on the Salmon River Road between North Fork, ID and the put-in at Corn Creek. The road was cleared the following day. 2) The was a slide in May 2014 on the Skalkaho Hwy SR 37 between Hamilton, MT and Philipsburg, MT. The road is finally open, over two months later, as of today Aug 1st.

We will have to wait and see the severity these slides caused.

This is the current suggested reroute: http://goo.gl/maps/py3Z7. There is a bike path that runs between Hailey and Ketchum: BCRD Summer TraiLink - Wood River Trail. If you do take this reroute I suggest stopping in at Powerhouse in Hailey: Power House Pub & Bike Fit Studio - Burgers, Bikes, Beer - Built On Site. Motels are also cheeper in Hailey then Ketchum, and there is a full grocery and numerous restaurants. There is a convenience store, motel and restaurant on US 20 in Fairfield.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

flumphboy said:


> We will have to wait and see the severity these slides caused


Wouldn't a road still be passable by a MTB with a little hike-a-bike?


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

vikb said:


> Wouldn't a road still be passable by a MTB with a little hike-a-bike?


The Forest Service has closed those stretches to everyone. For permission to travel through the area riders would need to touch base with both the Fairfield RD (208-764-3202) and the Ketchum RD (208-622-5371).

Also Vik, it not quite like the HAB you guy did on the GDMBR in Canada last year. Or, this is not a secondary mining road that will probably never be repaired, it's a main road, and my gut feeling tells me they will try to clear it as quick as possible. So, heavy machinery will be running, and it would be respectful for riders to stay out of the way.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

flumphboy said:


> The Forest Service has closed those stretches to everyone. For permission to travel through the area riders would need to touch base with both the Fairfield RD (208-764-3202) and the Ketchum RD (208-622-5371).
> 
> Also Vik, it not quite like the HAB you guy did on the GDMBR in Canada last year. Or, this is not a secondary mining road that will probably never be repaired, it's a main road, and my gut feeling tells me they will try to clear it as quick as possible. So, heavy machinery will be running, and it would be respectful for riders to stay out of the way.


Got it. Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

With 8 river launches a day at Corn Creek, the Salmon River Road is pretty important to keep open. And if the slides are above Cache Bar where the Middle Fork trips take out, then all those people ending their Middle Fork trips have to get out.


----------



## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm planning on riding the route sans singletrack this month, and have a bike selection question for those familiar with the terrain:

Which of the two bikes would you bring, not so much for speed but for making the route most fun. Either would be fitted with a couple of panniers:

1. Kona Explosif (650b steel hardtail w/ 120mm fork)
2. Specialized AWOL (29 x 2.1 Nanos)


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I would take the AWOL, and then if you really like it come back and do the singletrack with the Explosif. You should match the bike to the terrain and I can't think of a bike that would be a closer fit than the AWOL.


----------



## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Thx, I was hoping to hear that. So the descents aren't rough enough to merit full MTB?


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Ether would work fine, but Id take the 29r. You'll be able to handle the descents in the drops with 2.1s. A few folks have ridden the main route with cross bikes and this is what they said:

'Overall I thought that the main route was no problem on a cross bike and Christine agrees. She had previous experience on some 100+ gravel races but I literally only had 20 miles of gravel road biking in my life going into this trip. Also I've only used a mountain bike once in my life so all I will say is that if you already own a cross bike then it's not necessary to go buy a mountain bike just to use on the main route.

I actually used my exact same bike set up from my 12 day Pacific Coast tour from Portland OR to San Jose CA back in May of this year: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ADPC2014

I stuck with my 32mm Continental Tour Ride Tires which I believe are the same ones that come stock on the Surly Long Haul trucker. Christine also had 32mm tires with similar tread.

With my setup, I did not have to hike on any portions of the climbs but I definitely had to take rests. My rear tire would only start slipping on the real steep parts that were sandy. Christine had to hike with her bike on certain steep parts of the climbs when the dirt road became too crappy. A nice gentleman we met who had completed the Continental Divide last year was hiking in the real steep spots also.

The sections that had the most washboard and sand were probably the most annoying parts of the ride and I assume that wider tires and shocks would provide a smoother ride.

The downhills were probably the sketchest part for our bike setups especially when hitting sandy spots with decent speed. I could feel the front tire losing traction in the sand and wanting to slide left or right if I didn't hold my line straight. For the most part though, this was not an issue on most of the downhills and could easily be avoided by taking it slower on the descents. My arms were definitely tired after the real bumpy downhill parts and shocks would probably help eliminate some of that stress.

Long story short.... We had no problems using our cross bikes with rear panniers and 32mm tires on the main route."


----------



## tim_f (Feb 26, 2014)

albeant said:


> Thx, I was hoping to hear that. So the descents aren't rough enough to merit full MTB?


I rode main route on a steel fork fargo with 2.1 smart sam tyres in late June / early july

The main route descents are fine, need to pay attention on descents to look out for holes in surface so one can slow or pull up on front of bike (need to ride bike like mountain bike descending we weight well back) . Most iffy road was descent from Dollar summit towards Ketchum where last years burn has impacted road. Most of holes in road are flagged.

Plenty of people were riding route on tyres less than 2.1, but I think wider tyres are better on washboard and allow you to avoid the worst washboard by riding on the softer bits of the road.

The "Smart Sam" tyres were really good on main route and ok for most of the single track bits I did - I got off if was very lose on the single track.

Tim.


----------



## nrj (Sep 20, 2008)

albeant said:


> Thx, I was hoping to hear that. So the descents aren't rough enough to merit full MTB?


I agree with the people who've responded so far that the main route is perfect for something like an AWOL or Fargo. My wife and I completed the route a couple of days ago. I used a rigid 26er with 2.4 Holy Rollers and my wife used a hardtail with 2.1 WTB Nanos. There were many sections where I wished I had the various hand positions available with drop bars, but I never wished I had a full suspension bike.


----------



## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Thanks much to Welnic, Tim, nrj, and Casey for the detailed info. The AWOL it will be!


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

flumphboy said:


> An unusual amount of precipitation in the past 48 hours have cause a number of landslides on FR 227 between Featherville and Ketchum.
> 
> - There is one slide on the Featherville side (Fairfield Ranger District) between Skeleton Creek and Big Smoky Creek. If you are coming out of Featherville, the road is closed at at Skeleton Creek. Baumgartner Campground and it's hot spring pool are Open.
> - There area at least 2 slides on the Ketchum side (Ketchum Ranger District). The road is closed between Dollarhide Summit and Rooks Creek. The road is closed at Rooks Creek if you are coming out of Ketchum. Access to Frenchmans Bend and Wairfield is still available.
> ...


I do not have anymore specific info to report on the Ketchum side, but on the Featherville side things are really bad. Apparently, the road slipped into the river and the river responded by re-routing onto the former road. It is about a 100 yd stretch. There is a local meeting tonight and more info should be available tomorrow.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

flumphboy said:


> An unusual amount of precipitation in the past 48 hours have cause a number of landslides on FR 227 between Featherville and Ketchum.
> 
> - There is one slide on the Featherville side (Fairfield Ranger District) between Skeleton Creek and Big Smoky Creek. If you are coming out of Featherville, the road is closed at at Skeleton Creek. Baumgartner Campground and it's hot spring pool are Open.
> - There area at least 2 slides on the Ketchum side (Ketchum Ranger District). The road is closed between Dollarhide Summit and Rooks Creek. The road is closed at Rooks Creek if you are coming out of Ketchum. Access to Frenchmans Bend and Wairfield is still available.
> ...


For folks riding the Willow Creek Option, consider using this routing to get to the Smiley Creek Lodge: Bikepacking Idaho's Hot Spring and Cold Creeks | 2wheeltrails


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice writeup and great route. The signs on Willow Creek are old and should be ignored or taken down. I spoke with the FS about the signs on Willow Creek, but they did not know when they would get up there to remove them. Finally at the top of Bear Creek you can also go down the East Fork of Skeleton Creek this descent is top notch singletrack.


----------



## SurlyNate (Mar 16, 2006)

I'm planning on heading out to ride the main route towards the end of September (either the third or last week) - what are temperatures like? I'm assuming down into the mid-30s at night? I'll be attempting to sleep at lower elevations - just don't want to leave the winter bag at home if I should bring it. 

My plan is to bring the same gear setup I would for doing a trip around here (Oregon) if I was heading up into the Cascades between 4-6,000' in September. Plenty of warm clothes, rainjacket, pants, waterproof gloves, down jacket, wool knit cap, etc. 

I'll be coming in from Portland, plan to head into Boise, park, start riding Sunday, take ~6-7 days for main route, then drive back to Portland the following weekend. 

If anyone's interested in joining me with that timeframe in mind, let me know.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Just a heads up the middle fork of the boise road has been washed out.

The affected area extends 15 miles from the junction at Slide Gulch upstream to the Neinmeyer Recreation Site.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

SurlyNate, The weather is very unpredictable that time of year. We have gotten snow storms of a couple inches at the end of September that melt off within a couple of days. I would bring the winter bag just in case you need it or get stranded waiting for snow to melt.


----------



## SurlyNate (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks for the intel on the road closure and possibility of light snow.

Besides following the forum chatter here and over at bikepacking.org and ACA forums, where could I find information regarding road closures of the route? Your comment was the first I had heard of the Middle Fork Road closure, and I'm unable to find either that road closure or the FR227 closure anywhere online? 

Am I not looking in the correct spots, or is it a matter of calling the local ranger district?

Thanks!


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Closures are slow to show up on the FS websites. I would check ktvb and idahostatesman a couple days before you leave they will have road closures posted.


----------



## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

Mudslides close Middle Fork of the Boise River Road | Fishing | Idahostatesman.com


----------



## carbonguy (Dec 12, 2012)

Hey, do you mean the sign on the upper part of Willow Creek about "trail closed due to fire damage"? It certainly didn't look damaged, but we weren't sure what it'd be like later on & down the trail.



smilycook said:


> Nice writeup and great route. The signs on Willow Creek are old and should be ignored or taken down. I spoke with the FS about the signs on Willow Creek, but they did not know when they would get up there to remove them. Finally at the top of Bear Creek you can also go down the East Fork of Skeleton Creek this descent is top notch singletrack.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

carbonguy said:


> Hey, do you mean the sign on the upper part of Willow Creek about "trail closed due to fire damage"? It certainly didn't look damaged, but we weren't sure what it'd be like later on & down the trail.


Does the sign say it is closed? From my memory it just warned of possible downed trees and washouts, but there was no mention of it being "officially closed".


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

There are dedicated threads to the landslide/washouts over on the Road Closure section of ACA's forum:

Temporary ACA Route Road Closures

Basically everything is passable, but head over there for the info/directions.


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

The sign says it is closed, but should be ignored.



flumphboy said:


> Does the sign say it is closed? From my memory it just warned of possible downed trees and washouts, but there was no mention of it being "officially closed".


----------



## hydepark (Jul 23, 2007)

A customer just finished the loop and did this write up on the Willow Creel Option.
IHSMBR ? Willow Creek Option


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Just finished the first part of our trip report and photos: Idaho City to Smiley Creek Lodge.

Check it out: Limberlost ? Lost in Idaho ? Idaho City to Smiley Creek Lodge


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Looks like some rough times on the singletrack options. Fully rigid old school mountain bikes with panniers are not going to cut it on the singletrack options. Hopefully Casey will add some extra warnings in the map for the next printing. 

I am going to recommend a deviation on the Whitecloud singletrack unless you really love pushing your bike.

From Pole Creek road you take Grand Prize Trail to the Bowery Guard Station. The singletrack option then recommends going up the Bowery Trail. This is 100% hike-a-bike up and then 50% hike-a-bike down for bikepackers. Instead get on the East Fork Road and ride to Big Boulder Road. Turn left on Big Boulder Road and ride to the trailhead for the Big Boulder Trail. Take the Castle Divide trail to Frog lake then up and over the divide. There will be some hike-a-bike near the top of the divide. Then descend off the Divide and back onto the singletrack option. The Chamberlain Creek trail is about 70% hike-a-bike on the way up so use this option gives you a lot more riding. 

Also visit trails.idaho.gov for lots of intel. Plus all routes can be downloaded into Google Earth.


----------



## henrychinaski (Jan 21, 2012)

smilycook said:


> I am going to recommend a deviation on the Whitecloud singletrack unless you really love pushing your bike.


Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For my money, the descents into Germania and Ants Basin were highlights of my trip (White Cloud section). The scenery in both areas was stunning. I wasn't expecting the rowdy descents; so happening upon them was something out of a dream.

The hike-a-bikes were epic, but so were the views, descents, wildlife, weather, etc. A very consistent experience


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

henrychinaski said:


> Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For my money, the descents into Germania and Ants Basin were highlights of my trip (White Cloud section). The scenery in both areas was stunning. I wasn't expecting the rowdy descents; so happening upon them was something out of a dream.
> 
> The hike-a-bikes were epic, but so were the views, descents, wildlife, weather, etc. A very consistent experience


I am still recommending the Ants Basin route, just skipping the first hike-a-bike since the majority of people will enjoy the detour better since there is a lot more riding fit into basically the same amount of time. The descent into Germania is very rowdy indeed and something few people can ride.


----------



## henrychinaski (Jan 21, 2012)

smilycook said:


> people will enjoy the detour better since there is a lot more riding fit into basically the same amount of time


A quick look at Strava indicates you're adding 15 miles and ~1,100 feet to get to the Big Boulder Cr. Trail head (from Bowery). Further, Big Boulder Cr. to Frog Lake, over Castle Divide, and descending into Chamberlain Basin doesn't look like a picnic (see Strava below). In fact, you'd cover somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,500 feet over nearly 16 miles. You'd also spend a significant amount of time at high elevations, topping out at nearly 10k over Castle Divide. I'm staring at the Sawtooth/White Clouds Idaho Trail map (Sawtooth/Whiteclouds, Idaho Trail Map & Guide | Adventure Maps) and it indicates the section of trail through Frog lakes as double black, so it's not like you're going to avoid technical riding. You'd be doing all this to bypass a hike-a-bike (similar to what you'd find on your alternative) and a 2-mile descent. I've never ridden the proposed sections, but I think it's highly likely it would take significantly more time than the 10 mile section you're bypassing. In fact, it's a long enough of a stretch to add a day to your trip. Though, another day in that country wouldn't be all that bad

Bike Ride Profile | Livingston to 4th July near Clayton | Times and Records | Strava


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

henrychinaski said:


> A quick look at Strava indicates you're adding 15 miles and ~1,100 feet to get to the Big Boulder Cr. Trail head (from Bowery). Further, Big Boulder Cr. to Frog Lake, over Castle Divide, and descending into Chamberlain Basin doesn't look like a picnic (see Strava below). In fact, you'd cover somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,500 feet over nearly 16 miles. You'd also spend a significant amount of time at high elevations, topping out at nearly 10k over Castle Divide. I'm staring at the Sawtooth/White Clouds Idaho Trail map (Sawtooth/Whiteclouds, Idaho Trail Map & Guide | Adventure Maps) and it indicates the section of trail through Frog lakes as double black, so it's not like you're going to avoid technical riding. You'd be doing all this to bypass a hike-a-bike (similar to what you'd find on your alternative) and a 2-mile descent. I've never ridden the proposed sections, but I think it's highly likely it would take significantly more time than the 10 mile section you're bypassing. In fact, it's a long enough of a stretch to add a day to your trip. Though, another day in that country wouldn't be all that bad
> 
> Bike Ride Profile | Livingston to 4th July near Clayton | Times and Records | Strava


Henry, The trail from Livingstone Mill to Frog lake is great singletrack and very easy with bike packing gear. I was bike packing into Frog lake on the castle divide trail with BOB trailers over 10 years ago. On the recommended route there is about 1500ft of hike-a-bike on bowery and then about 1800ft of hike-a-bike on chamberlain creek. Maybe you are right about adding a day since that is a hard call and can vary so much by ability. I just know after having ridden in the Whiteclouds for the past 15 years I would much rather go my way than the recommended route with bike packing gear. Without gear I would actually go up Little Boulder Creek.

Check out my writeup on chamberlain creek on mtb project and you can see the steepness. https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/6002613/chamberlain-creek-trail

I don't have a writeup yet for bowery creek on there.


----------



## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi Gang,

I'm a working stiff who tries to periodically carve some time out for bike adventures. This carved-out time is precious and valuable and so I like to make it count, which necessitates research and planning. I've also done enough of this to know that nothing is for sure, and part of what makes bike adventures so great is that you can be forced at times to relinquish partial or full control of your circumstances to nature and chance. I'm good with that. Actually, I'm more than good - that's where all the great adventure lies.

So with that preface, I have carved out a 4+ day weekend in October. The dates are 16-19, Thur-Sun. The "+" part is that I can bail from work early on Wed afternoon, hitting the road so that I can be "there" and ready to ride on Thursday morning.

One of the options I have been considering is the IHSMBR. For some context, I live in Spokane. I have a like-minded buddy who has also carved out said time and who will be coming with me. We are both pretty experienced off-road bikepackers and we both have some backcountry experience and some emergency medical knowledge. Both of us have passed through our 20's and 30's and I like to think we have some pretty good judgement, meaning that families and obligations force us to have pretty good judgement. We are both also reasonably fit and love a good physical challenge and would rather be either climbing or descending, and love spending time outdoors and are reasonably used to adapting to and dealing with adverse weather conditions.

My question for y'all is whether a mini-tour through some part of the IHSMBR during this time frame is a reasonable option, or whether we are smoking crack.

We would be bailing from work early on Wed, 10/15, bee-lining for a town where we could overnight at a motel and park my truck, then heading into the hills for the next three days, returning on Saturday night, overnighting, and then driving home on Sunday. I suppose we could also come out on Sunday morning, get in the truck and drive straight home.

Hitting hot springs at the end of each day on Sat and Sun would be ideal, obviously, since it will be damned cold at night. Planning a route that is at relatively lower elevations would seem to be a smart move, at this late date. Along with weather, another thing that I could see seriously impacting this trip is the amount of hunting activity that might be going on during this time. Neither of us are all that crazy about interjecting ourselves into peak hunting seasons, probably especially the modern firearm ones.

With all that said, we still envision that maybe there is the potential for a rather awesome excursion, and wanted to solicit the opinions of those in the know here, especially those who understand the seasonal conditions/hazards/realities of the area in mid to late October.

Are we crazy for even considering this? If we are, I can accept that. But if we aren't, are there any destinations/routes that you think would particularly lend themselves to what we have in mind?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you are willing to provide.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

During fickle times of the year - fire season, spring, fall, etc. - what I like to do is plan 3 trips to 3 different areas. That way if, lets say, it's snowing in the White Clouds, it may be 20 degrees warmer and sunny in the Owyhee Basin. Or, out at some of those hot springs in Eastern Oregon.

I don't think your crazy for attempting a trip to central Idaho during that time of year, but just have a backup plan(s). I went down there 2 years ago in late October and we had 70 degree days for a week, and then a cold front moved in and it dumped 8 inches of snow above 8000ft.


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I haven't looked at my maps yet, but I think that with 4+ days your best option would be to do one of the singletrack options and then complete the loop by traveling back to the start of the singletrack on the normal route.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Welnic said:


> I haven't looked at my maps yet, but I think that with 4+ days your best option would be to do one of the singletrack options and then complete the loop by traveling back to the start of the singletrack on the normal route.


The White Clouds would be ideal for this. Start/end at Smily Creek Lodge area.

But, if you plan for the White Clouds, I'd definitely have a back-up plan. Snow is fickle.


----------



## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Casey and Welnic, thanks for your replies.

I got home from work today and my maps were on my doorstep and my face has been glued to them for the last three hours. Casey, they are AMAZING. Thank you.

Welnic, your idea of tying some singletrack into the main loop to create a mini loop was exactly what I had in mind. Unfortunately, the devil is in the details.

Casey, before even reading your reply about the White Cloud/Smiley Creek option, I was magnetically drawn to it on the map. The problem is, that's the highest average elevation of the route, and I may well have misrepresented my abilities in my introductory post, but traversing 9 and 10k' passes in mid-late Oct is way more than I want to bite off. The other thing that jumps out from the maps is just the sheer elevation changes and therefore steepness of that section. It would be super slow going. I would love to do this, but in June or July.

One possibility at lower elevation that jumped out at me was driving to Cascade, overnighting there (if that is an option), and then driving south and finding a place to park the truck and heading out on some sort of 3-day route that would include a bit of Eagles' Nest singletrack and then a bunch of banging around on the main route and other secondary dirt roads between the numerous HS's in that region.

I am very excited about the"big route" and am anxious to get immersed in it and plan some longer trips in the upcoming season, but as a way to "get acquainted", given the limited time I have available this Fall, does this potential mini-route seem like a plan that has any merit?


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

That looks like a good plan.

A lower elevation alternative would be to start riding at the confluence of the South Fork of the Salmon and the East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon. Ride south on the main route to the North Shore Lodge. The highest point of the trip would be next, Warm Lake Summit at 7290 feet. Then when you get to Landmark head north and descend the road next to Johnson Creek to Yellow Pine.
Then ride down the road next to the East Fork back to the start.

The only time I have been in that exact area of Idaho was on a paddling trip in 1979 when we ran the East Fork. I really liked the town of Yellow Pine, though I can't really explain why. I saw a trip report from someone who rode the route and they did this diversion through Yellow Pine.

Web cam of the runway just south of Yellow Pine:
Johnson Creek Airport WebCam


----------



## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Welnic, thanks. The loop you described looks like another great option. One thing that really appeals to me is all the time you would spend riding alongside either the south or east fork. Lots of campground options, as well.

The JCA webcam is great. Sure looks like a fine day up there today!


----------



## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

October in Idaho is such an unknown. Last year we got snow on the second weekend in October down to about 6000ft. 

You would be better off planning for the Boise or Sun Valley area. McCall tends to get snow earlier and in larger quantities. Boise or the Owyhees are a good backup plan in case the snow really rolls in. I would suggest picking up the Adventure Map for the Sun Valley area and using that to create a singletrack option off the main route. 

It is also hunting season in October so a lot of campgrounds will be packed.


----------



## SurlyNate (Mar 16, 2006)

Just got back from a modified version of the main route (due to smoke I just hauled ass down 55 from McCall back to Boise). 

Amazing trip, people, and scenery. I"ll be back for sure. 

One note - I'd highly, highly recommend either the walk around on the hill or the entire re-route for the 268 slide. I definitely would not attempt to cross the river, then re-cross it to get back onto the road. The first crossing is doable without too much trouble. However, there is a LOT of quicksand-ish material near the eastern re-crossing. As in - it looks like a solid surface with a foot of water on top of it, but the first step you take onto it you'll be mid-thigh deep in sand and water to your ribcage. Scary stuff. I just realized on the drive home that had I been carrying my bike with me, it would have gone into the sand as well and I honestly don't know how I would have gotten it out. 

So yeah - the walk-around on the hillside can be a pain in the ass from what I hear, but it's easily the safest option. Having both legs buried past the knees is kind of scary.


----------



## Spoon Farmer (Dec 23, 2007)

*Thanks*

I just wanted to thank whoever built the trail around the slide on the Middle Fork Rd., 268.
It took us ~ three hours to move our two bikes and panniers to other side using multiple trips back and forth, but was easily doable last Thursday.


----------



## tim_f (Feb 26, 2014)

tim_f said:


> Completed main Loop last Tuesday and returned to the UK today.
> 
> I was riding a rigid Salsa Fargo with panniers.
> 
> ...


 The photos from my trip are here - https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=c0bf...77&ithint=folder,JPG&authkey=!AE4HbZh-vUb8nl0


----------



## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice set of pictures. Thanks for putting those up there.


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

I just posted some more photos and stories from the White Cloud leg of our trip, check it out: The White Clouds & Stanley


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Finally finished writing up my trip report from Idaho! We rode most of the route including the singletrack sections back in july. Fantasticly difficult vacation, thanks for all the hard work Casey!

See and read more here:
Limberlost ? Lost in Idaho ? Idaho City to Smiley Creek Lodge
The White Clouds & Stanley
Journey North to Burgdorf Hot Springs
Lost in Idaho - 4 of 4 - The Return South Through Eagle's Nest


Our crew in Idaho City by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Trudy's Kitchen, Powers courtesy of the house by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Thorn Creek Butte at Sunset by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Ryan King by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Jason, Soaker by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Fresh mint and snow summit cocktails by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Ross Shoulder by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Ross Shoulder, looking out over the Sawtooths and down into the Ross Basin by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Lyle by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Porcelain Rocket Mr Fusion seatbag by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Dropping into our campsite in Ants Basin by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Ants Basin by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Morning rituals by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Lyle crossing The Meadows by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Chunky! by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Boat Box Hot Springs by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Mr Fusion again by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


I carried a Tenkara rod and even caught some cute lil buggers by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Camp Cocktails by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Running out of food, lucky to find this large bolete on the trail by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Slept like a champ! by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Camped in a regenerating burned alpine meadow by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Top of Steamboat Ridge by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Swimming hole by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Goofballs by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Fool Creek Trail by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Lyle, getting loose by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


Yup, a Mountain Lion by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


And it's a wrap! Hardest 17 days I've had on a bike. by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


----------



## jamesframes (May 2, 2008)

Sweet! My wife and I rode with you mr. slingshot man out of Smiley Creek-excellent write up and pics!


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Awesome! It was great chatting with you, hope the rest of your trip was fantastic!

I got a photo of you guys:
Headed into the White Clouds by gabriel amadeus, on Flickr


----------



## jamesframes (May 2, 2008)

Nice pic-thanks so much for posting. Yes-amazing place next time we'll bring our touring bikes. I must say-that mountain lion pic is out of this world...that would be on my highlight list for sure.

jamie


----------



## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Looks like that mountain lion is a youngster?


----------



## gabrielamadeus (Jun 27, 2014)

Totally a baby kitty! He/she was playing in the hot spring when I rolled up!


----------



## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Cutest thing ever!

The scary thing about mountain lion cubs is that they stay with mama kitty for two years. So if you see a baby kitty, you can bet that mama is somewhere about.


----------



## flying 1960 (Aug 12, 2008)

Looking forward to this ride, ordered my maps already. New to bikepacking so I have Some questions for those who have already been there. 

Is late August okay? Works better for my schedule. Tent or hammock?
My ride of choice is a sweet Canfield brothers Nimble 9 singlespeed. Is a singlespeed doable?

Any and all advice welcome
Thanks, 
Ward


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Late August probably holds the greatest chance of being sidetracked by a forrest fire - or smoke. If you do go then, be prepared to adapt to your plans and routing. Early July is traditionally the best time. Or - after the snow melts but before wildfire season.

I researched the route on a singlespeed. So, it's definitely doable.

You could do tent or hammock tent or tarp or mid. There are plenty of trees to hang a Hennessy Hammock type shelter. I prefer a mid, such as the Black Diamond Mega-Light.


----------



## flying 1960 (Aug 12, 2008)

Looking like my only options are late August or early Sept. I like the idea of a Mid as well. How bad are the bugs? I have about been talked out of SS, probably will put an Alfine 11 on my Nimble 9 to keep from having to work so hard on the flats. Thanks for the info.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

In august and september bugs are a non-issue.


----------



## flying 1960 (Aug 12, 2008)

Great!


----------



## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Keep me posted. I'd love to have some partners in this route. I'd be coming from the west unfortunately.


----------



## flying 1960 (Aug 12, 2008)

At this point our plan has us arriving in Ketchum on Sunday 8/16 early and trying to get on the road that day. Still debating the CW or CCW route.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

What's the word for 2015 season conditions on the route?

How was the snowpack in ID? If as dry as other parts of the west, do we have an earlier date for trails/roads clear of snow and trees? 

What is current and planned status of the MF Boise road washout?

Thanks if anyone can comment. Schedule constraints prevented me from making it over there last year but I hope/intend to do the loop this year.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

MF Boise Rd is fixed.

Snowpack is melting about 2 weeks to a month ahead of last year.


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Wilderness was just signed into law this morning. It is now illegal to be in possession of a bicycle on these 2 sections of the White Cloud Option.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

^^^ bummer


----------



## Yagi (Dec 24, 2013)

Ugh. Fakk. Total bummer. A buddy and I were really hoping to ride this section in September.


----------



## kai_ski (Apr 24, 2013)

My wife and I are going to be traveling through on our way back to the PNW the second week of July. I was thinking it would be fun to stop and do some day rides to some of these spots. Are any of the singletrack options conducive to out and back in a day, i.e. what is the average distance from the road to the springs? I assume most of the roads are graded/gravel. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## WardJoines (Apr 9, 2016)

The Harriman trail heads north out of Ketchum towards Stanley. A double track with spectacular views its is a slow steady, but nothing too hard, until you reach Galena Lodge. A great place to stop and eat but they don't stay open very late at all. From there you either climb Galena pass or you turn back towards Ketchum for 20 plus miles of zooming downhill that rarely makes you touch your brakes. That run was my favorite ever on a bike!


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

OK, it looks like I am FINALLY really going to ride this thing. I've convinced two friends to ride the full main route beginning Sept. 10th. We will all be on hardtail MTBs so might consider one of the shorter singletrack options if time permits. Some questions:

1) If we want to shave some miles/time, is there any reason we can't stay on the MF Payette road between points N and J on the Crouch-Cascade section? You'd miss Silver Creek HS and might only save an hour or so, but good to have options.
2) I'm leaning toward Eagles Nest as a singletrack option over Willow Creek. Seems perhaps better riding, but that's perception NOT based on riding there. Maybe staying around Atlanta makes Willow a better choice??
3) If you're riding the main route counterclockwise, and if you're on MTB, seems like no reason not to deviate from main route just for the first 8 or 9 miles of Eagle's Nest, since its all descent, no?

Any other timely inputs, please share. Hoping Sept = cooler temps and fewer bugs. Looks like sub-freezing temps are likely at night in the higher regions??


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

InertiaMan said:


> OK, it looks like I am FINALLY really going to ride this thing. I've convinced two friends to ride the full main route beginning Sept. 10th. We will all be on hardtail MTBs so might consider one of the shorter singletrack options if time permits. Some questions:
> 
> 1) If we want to shave some miles/time, is there any reason we can't stay on the MF Payette road between points N and J on the Crouch-Cascade section? You'd miss Silver Creek HS and might only save an hour or so, but good to have options.
> 2) I'm leaning toward Eagles Nest as a singletrack option over Willow Creek. Seems perhaps better riding, but that's perception NOT based on riding there. Maybe staying around Atlanta makes Willow a better choice??
> ...


At this point you are going to have to work around the Pioneer fire closure, and its smoke: InciWeb the Incident Information System: Pioneer Fire .

Eagles Nest is much better riding than Willow Creek, and yes, if you are using a bikepacking style setup, there is no reason to not ride that singletrack on the Eagles Nest option. You can stay on the M Fk Pay road to shave some time.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

flumphboy said:


> At this point you are going to have to work around the Pioneer fire closure, and its smoke: InciWeb the Incident Information System: Pioneer Fire .


Thanks for that URL Casey. I checked the current conditions page on ACA today and noted that fire, but the text summary didn't communicate the scale as well as the map you linked to.

Fire/smoke is not a riding obstacle I have a lot of experience with . . . can you help me understand the potential implications? Would you consider riding the route in current conditions? Do folks consider shuttling past critical/smokey areas rather than cancel a planned trip? Is a fire of this size typically expected to be controlled/stopped before we are in the area ~10 days from now? (I realize anything is possible but some generalizations might be helpful).

It doesn't appear that any of the roads on the main route are currently closed due to the fire. Obviously fire and smoke could make things miserable real fast. Since the fire is currently 58% contained and the status descriptions imply they are making progress, and its burning N/NE, I was hoping it may be resolved before we ride thru that area.

PS - which hot spring is shown in the map set photo w/ the bathtub and long pipe inlet?


----------



## flumphboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Smoke is pretty much the worst conditions to ride through. You can't really breathe in heavy smoke, and when cycling you have to breathe lots. It would say do not even try to ride anywhere between Banner Summit and Warm Lake. It will take a season ending event to put this fire out. Which may come this weekend, but I doubt it. The 58% containment is the area where the fire has already burned through. So, that orange polygon on the map is not all burning right now. Some may still be smoldering, though.

Here's a better map to gauge where the fire is actually burning, day to day (red dots are were it is most active): Fire Detection Maps

Smoke typically moves east. So, the westernmost and southernmost parts of the route typically wouldn't be affected by this fire's smoke plume.

That photo was taken at Burgdorf Hot Spring, on the Secesh Option. Right behind the tub is a huge pool. Google it for images.


----------



## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

```
Here's a better map to gauge where the fire is actually burning, day to day (red dots are were it is most active): Fire Detection Maps
```
Thank you for the link.


----------



## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

Given the scale of this fire (the largest currently active fire in the US) and the proximity to the route, we're definitely revising our plan. 

Even the western portion of the ride seems potentially problematic, since there are road closures and camping bans within 5 to 10 miles of the route near Crouch. We are considering riding the Secesh option at the top, then down the main route through the Eagles Nest option, continuing south and eventually cutting back via the Boise spur (perhaps looping out through Atlanta if we have time). I have a friend that can get my can from the N of route down to Boise, so the logistics are viable. But I'm still concerned about smoke (noticed some comments online from Garden Valley residents) or fire movement. Also concerned about the singletrack from my friends, who have some-but-not-a-lot of trail experience.

Casey, how rough would it be for a full rigid (Troll) on the Secesh and Eagles Nest ST options? Two of us are running front suspension so presumably manageable even if not ideal, but one is full rigid.

Our other option is to shift entirely to an Oregon tour.


----------

