# 6'9" 265lb Enduro Options?



## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

So have some direct questions all centering around height and weight?
My back ground - Ex-Professional Euro B-Ball for 11 yrs I am 50 yrs old now and ready to hang up MX racing
Still in much better than avg shape for my age
Early years thought that I was going down the path to Race for a living but then had a huge growth spirt

7 yrs BMX Nationally - Expert Class
MX for most my life - had to stop while playing but continued after retiring. But time to move on to something more forgiving on the body

Considerations? I am looking to either buy or build if I have to a 29" enduro
Riding - I now live in NW Idaho and have access to some awesome terrain - downhills and climbs

Concerns?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 - Rims/Hubs and spoke strength? Dont want a rim folding
2 - Disc's/Brake Stopping Power?
3 - Suspension - Weight Limits, Fork Flex ( Very Knowledgeable in suspension setup, able to revalve my own MX Sticks understand shim stacks)
(Air suspension almost made it into the MX world but faded, so I have a good understanding of the internals and working)
4 - Frame Flex?
5 - Are crank arm lengths an issue? most common are 170-175.....Would 180-190 be out of the question?
6- Pedal strength?

My problem is that I know too much coming from my back ground and know what I like but no nothing in todays current MTB world

I am not looking into breaking the bank but I think that a 5k - 6k Budget is reasonable

One of the Bikes that I have been eyeing
- Pivot - Firebird XT/XTR or Trail 429


Looking for suggestion and experiences?

-B


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## lone_tree (Jan 22, 2015)

I’ve known guys much heavier than you that ride. It’s a concern, sure but I’m more concerned about the height. There are some brands that make XXL frames that might do the trick. You won’t want super long cranks arms because you’ll be bashing them on everything. I’d head to a local bike shop and see what they suggest.


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

I think you would be stoked on an XXL transition spire.


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

I have a family friend who played in the NBA for a few years and then ended his basketball career in Europe. Doesn't sound like such a bad life. 

Anyway, my advice is based on being 6'5 and as heavy as 340 and as low as 275 and a handful of years younger than you. I'm going to answer your concerns in the order you listed them, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of different opinions, but this is what works for me riding regularly for the last decade.

1. Yes, wheels can be an issue depending on how you ride. Not so much folding them, but issue with cheap hubs. I get custom wheels built, with either Chris King or Onyx hubs, but if I were you, I'd buy a bike, start riding and upgrade the wheels later. Good wheels are not cheap, but mine get recycled with each new frame I buy. 

2. I suggest a 4 piston brake. I won't ride anything without them. 

3. If you get a bike/frame with the right leverage curve, I don't think your weight will be too much of an issue with suspension as you're just at the top weight for most components. But I think you'll appreciate the stiffness of minimum a 35-36mm stanchioned fork, like a Lyrik or Fox 36. I currently ride Lyriks and Zebs. As for shocks, read some posts on here. Plenty of them, including air ones, will work at your weight. 

4. Frame flex shouldn't be too much of an issue at your weight. Even trail bikes are built pretty burly these days. Like I ride an Ibis Mojo 4 w/o issue. But in general, a bigger travel bike will be stiffer. 

5. Crank length, well, I'd recommend sticking with 175 b/c many bikes have pretty low bottom brackets these days and you definitely get a lot of pedal strikes with longer cranks.

6. Pedals aren't an issue to even worry about. 

I think the biggest issue you'll have is finding a bike that's big enough. Reach, stack and ETT lengths are numbers you really need to consider before buying something. I doubt you'll fit on an XL Pivot (They are pretty bikes tho.) I'm thinking XXL Santa Cruz or Transition bikes might work. And I think your budget will definitely get your started, just plan for upgrades in the future b/c if you like to really ride, our size definitely takes a toll on things.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

theDogger2 said:


> So have some direct questions all centering around height and weight?
> My back ground - Ex-Professional Euro B-Ball for 11 yrs I am 50 yrs old now and ready to hang up MX racing
> Still in much better than avg shape for my age
> Early years thought that I was going down the path to Race for a living but then had a huge growth spirt
> ...


Height and especially weight aren't a problem. Limited options but XXL will work, and make sure it has a longer travel dropper post. 175 cranks should be fine. Also might be worth investing in a durable set of rims & hubs (350s). 

As far the actual bike, there's quite a big difference between the Firebird and 429. They're pretty much at opposite ends of the spectrum. If you're gonna be doing mostly trail riding, these longer travel trail bikes are extremely capable. If you plan on doing jumps, drops and steeper tech, an enduro would be the better option. Of course that'll come with more weight and won't be as good a climber, so you'll want to find a balance.

Personally, I'd opt for the longer travel trail bike, which can handle the occasional bike park trip. And a lot of these enduro bikes are pretty decent at climbing, so I'd try and demo a few if possible.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I’m 230, low as 214, high as 260. I hate chassis and wheel flex. I personally like SuperBoost but it’s not an absolute. I prioritize pedaling efficiency. I have a Pivot Switchblade but there are many very good heavily built frames out there. I’m a big believer in the 38/Zeb forks. I like enduro spec carbon rims. DT 350s are great hubs. I prefer my wheels to built by LaceMine29 or Speed Dream wheels. I just bought a OneUp 240 dropper because I have 35in inseam. Pedals are a non issue. 175 cranks should be fine although they might be a little short second to personal preference. DH brakes and big ass rotors definitely. Depending on leverage ratio, personal feel and weight air should be fine. There are plenty of custom tuners out there which because your experience you may benefit from. I do like Avalanche and you can personally play with their tunes. 


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Don’t even think about XL. You’re an XXL at minimum or custom. That’s going to limit your choices significantly.


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

Stumpjumper Evo in S6? I'm 6'2" on a S4 Enduro, but they top out at XL (S5). The Evo is a pretty longish trail bike, might work for Enduro. Plenty of people on here ride them, so hopefully they can offer their views.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

XXL


theDogger2 said:


> So have some direct questions all centering around height and weight?
> My back ground - Ex-Professional Euro B-Ball for 11 yrs I am 50 yrs old now and ready to hang up MX racing
> Still in much better than avg shape for my age
> Early years thought that I was going down the path to Race for a living but then had a huge growth spirt
> ...


I'd make sure you ride an XXL Spire or Megatower, or S6 Enduro before you decide on the Firebird. I wouldn't think Pivot makes a bike large enough for you? BUT... fit's always personal. (I'm sure some would disagree, but I wouldn't call a Trail 429 an enduro bike even though I think they do?? (or have an enduro build or something?), if an enduro bike is what your after? (Note, I just read a cool article about people taking the Pivot Phoenix DH bike and putting a single crown, gears and dropper post on it to make a really heavy duty enduro bike!! But I don't think Pivot does XXL's in those? Pivot is finally making more modern geo on their newest bikes, but I don't think any are XXL? i could be wrong though... )

Santa Cruz Reserve Wheels would probably be a good thought in your case too? Not the lightest carbon wheels, but they are really strong and that's one place where flex might be an issue. (Note, SC bikes are not that light until you get into their CC frames which are really pricey, though bike weight is an overrated issue) At any rate, I'd either look for good hubs/rims on what your buying or plan to upgrade wheels? ALSO, double check the brake situation as I think parts scarcity and maybe penny pinching?/greed has led to some crappy brakes on bikes that shouldn't be spec'd with what they are coming with. G2's on enduro bikes, etc. If they are cheap they need to be 4 pot shimano's cause even if modulation is not really a strong suit they at least have good stopping power!!

I don't think 180 cranks on a modern low bottom bracket mountain bike would work out unless you have super flat" terrain? Which I assume that's not the intent since your looking for Enduro bikes? But if you might also be looking at trail or "all mountain" bikes too then the Hightower and Sentinel in XXL should still be a better fit on paper then the T429? (maybe Spec Stumpy Evo too?)

For sure I'd go Zeb or 38 for enduro, I weight almost as much as you though I'm 6-7"s shorter!  Anyway, I think flex has gotten to a point that for intended use it's WAY less of an issue with quality parts. I mean it's there, but at least at my skill level it's not a detriment to my riding like it was back in the 80-90's when every part was either a noodle or stupid expensive and still sometimes flexy... 

I guess the only other thing is just luck of the draw to find bikes in your area you can test ride. I'd google to see if you can find rentals in your area if your not sure about fit. It's usually very hard to find XXL's to rent OR even buy. BUT you might get lucky... And if you live a day's drive from some mountain bike mecca or large city it would be worth the drive to see if you can find XXL bikes to test or rent! A Trek Slash might fit. XL Kona's are pretty long bikes, but stack wouldn't be as good? OH, Guerilla Gravity S4 could work, just harder to find one to try out unless you live near Denver CO. Um... I'll try to think of others that might fit

Have fun!!


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Something with crazy long reach and a low-ish leverage ratio. Maybe a Pole Stamina?


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

I think you biggest problem will be finding something in your size!
New or used. As you know the supply chain sucks and New and used bikes have gone up in cost.
I agree with those before to say I would look for a XXL.
The pivot Firebird is a awesome bike but not sure if it would fit you??
I like the suggestion of Santa Cruz or Transition or Pole or GG.
You are 6'9 and I would think you need a bike with as big reach number.
Your budget might be tight........
Rims - I would go with nothing to thin and go with 30 mm-35mm.
Wider the rim the most stable the bike will feel!
(Specially around corners)
Cranks - 175 would be fine.....the trend is to go shorter than longer!
A good beefy fork is a good investment.
(I have a 38 Fox and luv it!)

Good luck!


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

There's a lot on here that makes sense for a taller / heavier rider.
The good news is generally the manufacturers have figured out making really light frames can compromise longevity so they're built less to hit a target weight and more to be strong / robust. 

First this is geometry.
It has to fit. Not just reach but stack, ETT, and definitely rear centre. For too long many brands just made the front of the bike longer / taller with each size increase and left the rear the same. That's ok if you're medium to large. And rubbish on XS or XL. For XXL it'll be bordering on painful to ride. 

Some brands state increases in rear centre but it's notional, not serious. Really check on the measurements. 

Leverage ratio. 
You're versed in suspension which makes this easier, but just check the ratio of frame travel to shock stroke. The higher this is, the more difficult it can be to get sag right at higher weights. It means higher air pressure / higher weight springs. 
Heavier riders benefit from lower ratios. 2.8 seems about average or the upper end. This is general as the ratio changes throught the curve. 

Forks.
There's a good chance you'll be looking at 38mm stanchion forks. Don't rule out 36mm or 35mm offerings but the 38mm is where I'd go. The damper really will need to be good though. Might need custom tuning so pick a product that can be tuned to suit with independent LSC / HSC and rebound damping. 

Wheels.
This is down to personal taste and preference. I'd go carbon rims but a reliable brand with dependable hubs. Hope Prob4 hubs have been great for me but only 236lbs.
32 spokes would be preferable for me with 30mm internal width rims. Definitely run tyre inserts too. You'll be pushing those rims and tyres hard.
Get Double Down casing tyres too. Pinch flats are going to happen otherwise. 

Bars and a dropper post. 
Get One Up Components dropper post 240mm length, and a set of decent riser bars. 

The rest you can sort out as you go. 

Hope this helps, I've gone through so many bikes and at 6'4" and 236lb / 1.93m and 107kg I've found riding small, poorly proportioned, frail bikes with I'll considered suspension very expensive and tiresome.


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## Pebisnutt (Sep 6, 2019)

One thing I haven't seen people mention yet is handlebar width - most options will top out at around 800mm and I found that I needed much much wider. I got a set from DOOM BARS he specializes in creating extra wide handlebars and has both stock and fully custom options. Bars that are too narrow can cause pain across the neck, shoulders, and chest, and in general more width = more control. 

There are some equations to calculate your ideal width but I got extremely different results from each one and some were just straight up wrong, the best method I think is to just close your eyes, and stick your hands out in riding position holding a tape measure between your hands. Repeat a few times to get a more consistent number

Good luck and welcome to one of the only sports where being tall can actually be a disadvantage


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Agree with the others. Fit is most important. I would look at Santa Cruz and Transition. Both have great reputations. SC a little more pedally, Transition a little more plushy?


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Not sure what Raaw Madonna availability is like but they cover a lot of what we've raised here very well.


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

Wow thanks guys a lot of great info and what I was looking for. A lot of things brought up that I did not consider....time to start diving in and getting a list together then....Ill keep updating as I go


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

I'm 6'8 265 lbs. Been on a XXL Santacruz Hightower for over 2 years. I'm 53 and have looked for non custom built frames since '93. I think this would be your best option unless you go custom frame geometry. Everything about this boke has held up extremely well. The arc30/DT Swiss wheels are true as the first day.


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

Pebisnutt said:


> Good luck and welcome to one of the only sports where being tall can actually be a disadvantage


I agree with that statement!
On top of that there is no clear answer when you start comparing geometry from one bike to the next..........for me it got more confusing and unclear.
So when I ordered my bike frame and built it up I was not sure till I rode it.
Since I never got to test ride nothing before I ordered it.........it was a mystery if it would fit for me or not.

Another issue for big fellas most bike stores never have a xl or xxl just hanging around.........sometimes......depends where you live?
I am 6'7" - 36 in seam and a 7' wing span.

One thing I thought was cool is that I had not heard of DOOM bars.
But to be honest 800 mm wide bars with small bars ends from Ergon works for me very well.
I would not want to be any wider but that is just me.

Good luck!


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Thinking Geometron would be up your alley as well as some of the other options listed.


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

Ventana makes bikes for very tall riders.


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

Pisgah said:


> Ventana makes bikes for very tall riders.


Its funny a while back when I was thinking about getting into MTB and getting out of the MX racing I came across a UK rider that was 6'8" and he posted a custom Build of a Ventana X5 I believe and I thought that I saved all the info. Love the look of the bike and spec's. Was trying to find ity again and was not able to.

It was a Team Blue or Jail House. I am making a call on Monday. These guys were right down 50 from me when I lived in Folsom, Ca.

This might be my Base of My build!


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

theDogger2 said:


> Its funny a while back when I was thinking about getting into MTB and getting out of the MX racing I came across a UK rider that was 6'8" and he posted a custom Build of a Ventana X5 I believe and I thought that I saved all the info. Love the look of the bike and spec's. Was trying to find ity again and was not able to.
> 
> It was a Team Blue or Jail House. I am making a call on Monday. These guys were right down 50 from me when I lived in Folsom, Ca.
> 
> ...


My old Ventana! Except mine was purple. Frame weighed 8 3/4lb if I remember correctly. Now alloy AM frames weigh close to that and obviously are much more capable. My Ventana was perhaps the stiffest frame I ever owned. 


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Wtb has an ebike rim that is reinforced for building a set of tuff wheels.









HTZ i35 Rim


E-bikes add to the riding experience by providing more for less. More distance, more laps, more climbs and more descents. With all those “mores” also comes more weight continually bashing on the components of an e-bike. In order to overcome the increased forces induced by the technological...




www.wtb.com




mate w onyx hubs

trek line pro carbon








Bontrager Line Pro 30 TLR Boost 29 MTB Wheel | Trek Bikes (CA)


Enhance your cycling experience with Bontrager Line Pro 30 TLR 29 Boost MTB Wheel. Shop now!




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get biggest fork, probably fox. Dont cut the steerer tube so you can add spacers as to fine tune your fit









Mountain Bike Suspension | FOX


FOX redefines ride dynamics for ATVs, mountain bikes, motocross, off-road vehicles, snowmobiles, trucks, and UTVs.




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175mm cranks. 









SixC Crankset


Built in Vancouver and tested on the North Shore, the SixC is the lightest downhill focused crankset on the planet. Perfect for DH racing and other gravity fed set-ups. Hollow carbon arms shave ounces without losing a bit of strength.




www.raceface.ca





brakes. Hope makes vented rotor brakes for big guys running steep high heat applications.




__





StackPath






www.hopetech.com





Use this to see what fits. how changes in stem or stack height affect things. Bar rise etc.









Home - MAD SCIENTIST MTB


MAD SCIENTIST MTB BIKE GEOMETRY CALCULATOR AND COMPARISON TOOL Calculate your bike's modified geometry for changes such as fork travel, mulleting your bike, adding an angleset, or any other common geometry modifications? Or maybe you want to directly compare geometry and fit of multiple bikes...



madscientistmtb.com







At our size 438mm rear centers almost feel like riding a unicycle in certain situations. Longer rear center is better


some guys are fine riding with their ass in the air. But if you lok at the pro riders there is little diff from seat height to top of bars. 20-40mm usually. Imo

slash xl is tall
santacruz has a couple big bikes


dual crown forks are designed for a specific length and thats it. So you have to fabricate adapters to raise the bars. Something im sure your familiar with. Single crown forks are weaker and designed to fit a wheelsize. So you have to rely on headtube length to gain stack height. There is a limit to spacers you can pile on the steerer tube. So frames have to be found w the longest headtube length to accomodate the stack height for us. 

one up riser bars are great!

one of the most bad ass bikes iv ever seen was




https://www.pinkbike.com/u/astonmtb/blog/paul-astons-nicolai-g1-the-perfect-mountain-bike.html











NSMB.com - Paul Aston's 210mm Do Everything Nicolai G1


Is this the "ultimate mountain bike" or is it too specific to work for a large number of riders? Read on about Paul Aston's very custom Nicolai G1.




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im also a fan of this but we need him to build a frame just for us!!!









Steel, American-Made, High-Pivot Enduro Bike - Evan Turpen, Contra Bikes - The Inside Line


Welcome mountain bikers. Today on the Inside Line, we have long-time friend and ripper, Evan Turpen on the show. Evan comes from Aptos, California, and grew up with the Post Office crew, racing and digging and shredding. Now, he’s set his sights on creating his own mountain bike brand, Contra...




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## AlpineVulpine (Feb 6, 2021)

Kona Process X

A friend of mine is 6'8" and weights a bit less than you do. The XL Process X fits him great with just a few modifications. He was really happy with the fit, and looked at a bunch of bikes before buying his.

He changed out the dropper for a longer one, kept the steerer longer and went with a longer stem. He also changed out the stock rotors (and pads), as the ones it comes with were not up to the task on long decents.

I'd recommend you take a look at one.


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## Bigkatron44 (Jan 27, 2010)

theDogger2 said:


> So have some direct questions all centering around height and weight?
> My back ground - Ex-Professional Euro B-Ball for 11 yrs I am 50 yrs old now and ready to hang up MX racing
> Still in much better than avg shape for my age
> Early years thought that I was going down the path to Race for a living but then had a huge growth spirt
> ...


I'm 6'9 and owned many custom bikes and none of those XXL bikes you're looking at will work. I recommend Ventana. I've have/had several and they are great bikes. I have a hardtail that would work for you right now, and it's a great price. Also, I have a 2011 Eriksen Ti MTB that would work. Both are great to get you out riding. I've tried FS and prefer a hardtail for many reasons. Here's a link to my bikes 25 inch Ventana [Custom 29er] and 2011 Eriksen Ti MTB...
Ronnie


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

Bigkatron44 said:


> I'm 6'9 and owned many custom bikes and none of those XXL bikes you're looking at will work. I recommend Ventana. I've have/had several and they are great bikes. I have a hardtail that would work for you right now, and it's a great price. Also, I have a 2011 Eriksen Ti MTB that would work. Both are great to get you out riding. I've tried FS and prefer a hardtail for many reasons. Here's a link to my bikes 25 inch Ventana [Custom 29er] and 2011 Eriksen Ti MTB...
> Ronnie


Right now talking with Teresa at Ventana and working on a custom El Capitan Frame

Whats your Wing Span and Inseam?

A Ventana 25" fit you? I see your running a pretty long Neck?

So why the HT over the FS? I could see the HT for Urban/Ramps/Street Park?

Also for our size have you run into issues with chain and drive gear strength (cassette)?

The Eriksen bike is interesting for a road bike, might need to talk on it. Can you send me full specs and more pics?

Hanging in my garage is a old ChroMo framed GT Karakoram with RockShox Judy Forks that I have not taken down for a long time. Ill have to post a Pics. Dont remember the size though


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## Bigkatron44 (Jan 27, 2010)

theDogger2 said:


> Right now talking with Teresa at Ventana and working on a custom El Capitan Frame
> 
> Whats your Wing Span and Inseam?
> 
> ...


*
Send me an email at [email protected] and we'll chat about the Ventana and Eriksen. I also have an El Capitan in 25 inch and it fits great. Shoot me an email and I'll give thoughts on what you're looking for.*


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

What's your inseam measurement? I'm 6'4" but have a 38" inseam and fit great on a XXL Santa Cruz Tallboy. A XXL SC Megatower is what I'd be looking to sit on. I love the idea of a Pivot Firebird, but there's no way it's going to fit you, those are already small, tight and snappy bikes. 
A great resource to help compare stack/reach of bikes is 99 Spokes – Bicycle Comparisons, Reviews, and Trends


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## Bigkatron44 (Jan 27, 2010)

abeckstead said:


> What's your inseam measurement? I'm 6'4" but have a 38" inseam and fit great on a XXL Santa Cruz Tallboy. A XXL SC Megatower is what I'd be looking to sit on. I love the idea of a Pivot Firebird, but there's no way it's going to fit you, those are already small, tight and snappy bikes.
> A great resource to help compare stack/reach of bikes is 99 Spokes – Bicycle Comparisons, Reviews, and Trends


At 6'9, that's not going to work. Not only is the seat tube not long enough, the head tube is too short. A 6'9 rider needs a longer head tube for the max of a steerer. Also, the drop from seat to bar an issue, not to mention the leverage of the shock. I ride a 25 inch Ventana El Cap and it is the only thing that I know of in a FS that works for a 6'9 rider. Here's the specs. https://ventanausa.com/images/bike-list/2018-geometry-chart-090517.pdf


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Bikeworks said:


> Stumpjumper Evo in S6? I'm 6'2" on a S4 Enduro, but they top out at XL (S5). The Evo is a pretty longish trail bike, might work for Enduro. Plenty of people on here ride them, so hopefully they can offer their views.


The Enduro isn’t very long got seated pedaling. I’m 6’4” (on a good day) riding an S5 at 210lbs. The leverage curve isn’t great for heavier riders, a custom tuned shock would be needed. At my size I’m probably going to end up with a tuned shock on my Enduro.

For the truly tall guys, Nicolai is the best way to go. Off the rack XXL size that’s good to 205cm and they can build custom siding if you need bigger. It’s not cheap though, but it’s much more of a buy once and ride for a long time product.


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## BareNecessities (Nov 21, 2012)

I'd second Nicolai. This Saturn 14 ( sadly not mine ) was custom built as a XXXL for a 6'9" rider. It has a reach of 590mm!

At 6'7", I've had no luck with standard mtb sizing, as the stack never seems proportional to the reach, so have gone custom too


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

abeckstead said:


> What's your inseam measurement? I'm 6'4" but have a 38" inseam and fit great on a XXL Santa Cruz Tallboy. A XXL SC Megatower is what I'd be looking to sit on. I love the idea of a Pivot Firebird, but there's no way it's going to fit you, those are already small, tight and snappy bikes.
> A great resource to help compare stack/reach of bikes is 99 Spokes – Bicycle Comparisons, Reviews, and Trends


6'9"
265lbs
7ft Wing span
38" inseam
+++++++++++++++++++++
Come to the conclusion that custom will be the only way to go


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

BareNecessities said:


> I'd second Nicolai. This Saturn 14 ( sadly not mine ) was custom built as a XXXL for a 6'9" rider. It has a reach of 590mm!
> 
> At 6'7", I've had no luck with standard mtb sizing, as the stack never seems proportional to the reach, so have gone custom too
> 
> View attachment 1972830


My question is this, why is the rear CHAIN STAY length not increased proportionately along with the rest of the fame? This Saturn looks like they just took it from a med frame? It seem if they increase it and sharpen the front fork offset would be a better combo? 
|
Looking at this pic looks like they just cut the frame a half way up from the BB and then added a few inches to increase the reach?


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## BareNecessities (Nov 21, 2012)

theDogger2 said:


> My question is this, why is the rear CHAIN STAY length not increased proportionately along with the rest of the fame?


Yes, they appear to use the same chain stay length of 446mm across the range of S,M,L,XL and XXL, so I presume they've use their standard rear triangle on this frame too

Not that 446mm is particularly short or long, and personal preference will come into it, but it does look a little out of proportion on a bike this size


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## Brules (Jul 10, 2021)

I’m 6’ 285lbs and on a ‘21 Hightower size L. I think your biggest issue will be finding a frame for your height that fits best. Past that you are good to go. Pick some 4 piston brakes with 200-203mm rotors and you’re golden there. Float X shock or a coil and you’re good. A good 36/38 fork and you’re good. 

It’s really just going to come down to frame fitting. Lots of great choices out there. I’d recommend trying anything before you buy and don’t do it online if possible. Good luck!


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

theDogger2 said:


> My question is this, why is the rear CHAIN STAY length not increased proportionately along with the rest of the fame? This Saturn looks like they just took it from a med frame? It seem if they increase it and sharpen the front fork offset would be a better combo?
> |
> Looking at this pic looks like they just cut the frame a half way up from the BB and then added a few inches to increase the reach?


That's a really extreme example of what is generally the case with frame geometry as the sizes increase.

I'm not as tall as you but I really try to avoid buying frames that are same size rear. It makes a significant difference to how balanced a bike feels and you can't do anything about it. 

Check out Geometry geeks and see if there's any frames with chainstays over 450mm. What actually critical though (among other points) is the front centre / rear centre ratio. I found for me I prefer 35%+. Getting HPP bikes has made that better as the rear extends under compression. Forbidden do a decent job of this.


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

theDogger2 said:


> My question is this, why is the rear CHAIN STAY length not increased proportionately along with the rest of the fame?


If you ever get an answer to this, I'd love to hear it because it should. My guess is cost of production. 

I think I remember reading about one or two companies that increased chain stay lengths with frame size, but it was like S/M were one size and L/XL were another. It wasn't increased incrementally by frame size.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Im 6'6". My perfect bike would be

700 stack, 500 reach, 66.5 hta, 465 chainstay, 75 degree sta, 29er on plus tires 2.8". 
rear linkage modified for 270lbs. 
150mm travel and 140mm rear


the bike would be build w extra strong tubing etc to take the abuse. 

for 6'9" you could go 520 reach and get away w the dimensions on the rest. 

i would never buy a custom bike that the builder didnt have the ability to change the rear suspension design!

good luck


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

Pretty stoked, got an email yesterday from Teresa and it looks like they are ok in making a custom El Capitan X5 for me.
Will be talking more about it this week. Really like the X frame over the whale hump of the current El Capitan. Intrested to see how the spec turn out


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

theDogger2 said:


> Pretty stoked, got an email yesterday from Teresa and it looks like they are ok in making a custom El Capitan X5 for me.
> Will be talking more about it this week. Really like the X frame over the whale hump of the current El Capitan. Intrested to see how the spec turn out
> View attachment 1973401


Ventana is a great outfit to deal with. Great bikes. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

I like Ventana's bikes a lot but I always found their HA on the steep side.
(That is why I went with Turner for years.......)
Never had one but I have seen them and thrown a leg over one.
The El Captain is 68.2-68.4.......I believe.
I prefer a 65-66 HA.......but that is just me.
Just my 2 cents.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Bigkatron44 said:


> At 6'9, that's not going to work. Not only is the seat tube not long enough, the head tube is too short. A 6'9 rider needs a longer head tube for the max of a steerer. Also, the drop from seat to bar an issue, not to mention the leverage of the shock. I ride a 25 inch Ventana El Cap and it is the only thing that I know of in a FS that works for a 6'9 rider. Here's the specs. https://ventanausa.com/images/bike-list/2018-geometry-chart-090517.pdf


Yep, a long straight seat tube is a must for a 240” dropper. Does Ventana do custom geometry still? What’s the the head angle on your El Capitan? That would be my only concern with Ventana if they have outdated geometry like too steep head angle. (I haven’t been following Ventana for a long time. Didn’t even know they were still in business). Great bikes back in the day. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I'm not sure why people are recommending small bikes.
Geometron/nicolai g1 is huge.
The large has the same reach as the xxl tallboy.
I'm 6'7 and riding an xxl.

At your height you'll probably be wanting an xxl or xxxl.

It also allows a dual crown fork, so far better suspension. Boxxer is a popular choice, but I'm loving my Dorado.









Frankly I'm kind of a fan.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

theDogger2 said:


> My question is this, why is the rear CHAIN STAY length not increased proportionately along with the rest of the fame? This Saturn looks like they just took it from a med frame? It seem if they increase it and sharpen the front fork offset would be a better combo?
> |
> Looking at this pic looks like they just cut the frame a half way up from the BB and then added a few inches to increase the reach?


The chain stay (rear center) are always the problem with big frames. I'm pretty happy with my XXL hightower, but it could be better. A new company in the UK has an awesome frame building concept that allows them to build a bike that fits you no matter what size you are. Their headtube, BB, seat tube / top tube, and dropouts are all custom Titanium fittings. All the tubes are Carbon Fiber, CUT TO LENGTH and epoxied in place. Longer chain stay, no problem. They have a design engineer that will fit your bike to you. (my next frame!) This is a group of downhill racers / company owners, who hammer their bikes daily. Check it out.






How We Build Your Bike







www.athertonbikes.com


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

I had a look at atherton. Dont see how i select custom. Anyways 641 stack sucks! Just doesnt work!

if they want to build a 185mm head tube and 465 chainstay bike w leverage curve optimized for 300-250lb rider, then great. I see that as custom.

otherwise, this is just a more optioned size range for regular sized riders. 

i repeat 641 stackis a joke For a tall rider!

come on, 79 degree seat tube angle slams you forward and up over the bike high in the air, makes the low stack even worse.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Fuse6F said:


> I had a look at atherton. Dont see how i select custom. Anyways 641 stack sucks! Just doesnt work!
> 
> if they want to build a 185mm head tube and 465 chainstay bike w leverage curve optimized for 300-250lb rider, then great. I see that as custom.
> 
> ...


It sounded to me like they make each lug custom? If that's the case, there is no limit to their geo. I'd imagine they have a baseline geo and sizing to just sell bikes, but I watched another video where the guy had it built exactly to his spec.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Tall BMX'r said:


> It sounded to me like they make each lug custom? If that's the case, there is no limit to their geo. I'd imagine they have a baseline geo and sizing to just sell bikes, but I watched another video where the guy had it built exactly to his spec.


Im just reacting to their stack for xx tall. Makes no sense if they have the ability to customize like that not to design better. 

respect to the company and all, but have them pm me to design a bike that works for tall guys.

my bike has stack 685. And i run uncut steerer w riser bars and my seat is still just above the bars. so no way i want anothe 44mm spacers under the stem. Would be dangerous!

700mm stack 700 top tube 465 chainstay 66.5 hta is an actual realistic tall guy bike setup!


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Fuse6F said:


> Im just reacting to their stack for xx tall. Makes no sense if they have the ability to customize like that not to design better.
> 
> respect to the company and all, but have them pm me to design a bike that works for tall guys.
> 
> ...


Watch this. Speed through the opening to where they are discussing how they create their models. The guy says " we do stock 10mm increments in all parts because it more efficient, but we can do complete customs for unique situations".


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Dawgprimo said:


> I like Ventana's bikes a lot but I always found their HA on the steep side.
> (That is why I went with Turner for years.......)
> Never had one but I have seen them and thrown a leg over one.
> The El Captain is 68.2-68.4.......I believe.
> ...


I think HA is reflective of the long CS. A custom HA would work out to the OP’s favor. The 142 hub spacing I don’t like. I’m personally a fan of SuperBoost for big guys that ride on rougher trails. The Atherton looks really good. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

CaveGiant said:


> I'm not sure why people are recommending small bikes.
> Geometron/nicolai g1 is huge.
> The large has the same reach as the xxl tallboy.
> I'm 6'7 and riding an xxl.
> ...




You have to include the stack. When you factor in stack the Megatower sits between the XL and XXL G1. The G1 is not as big as the reach would suggest (although still a big bike).


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

DrDon said:


> I think HA is reflective of the long CS. A custom HA would work out to the OP’s favor. The 142 hub spacing I don’t like. I’m personally a fan of SuperBoost for big guys that ride on rougher trails. The Atherton looks really good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Agreed. Custom HA of 65-66 deg (adjustable with a flip chip or different shock mounting bolt position) and 157mm rear wheel spacing in order to be able to build a stronger wheel. If they can lengthen the chain stay a little more I would prefer that too for a bike this big.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

If it's a trail or enduro bike you are looking for, use a longer (more travel) fork. I changed the stock 140mm fork on my Hightower V1 to a 160mm fork. I didn't need the extra travel, but it raised the front of the bike which felt way more comfortable on the steep downhills. Going from a 140mm to a 160mm fork also made my bike slightly longer, and more slack. From a 67 degree HTA to a 66 degree. Then I installed a Slack-R which gave me almost 2 more degrees slack and an even longer wheelbase. It's now just about at 64 degrees HTA. I also have a 60mm / 20 degree riser stem and 35mm riser handlebars. As you raise your handlebars, you reduce your reach dimension. That's why I put a slightly longer stem on it. All this push me backwards more centered in the bike where I could actually feel the rear shock working. Super long reach without raising the ground to grip height puts you in an uncomfortable 'stink bug' position. I call it a fork centric position. Most of your weight is too far forward on your handlebars. Hard on your hands, wrists and shoulders.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Tall BMX'r said:


> If it's a trail or enduro bike you are looking for, use a longer (more travel) fork. I changed the stock 140mm fork on my Hightower V1 to a 160mm fork. I didn't need the extra travel, but it raised the front of the bike which felt way more comfortable on the steep downhills. Going from a 140mm to a 160mm fork also made my bike slightly longer, and more slack. From a 67 degree HTA to a 66 degree. Then I installed a Slack-R which gave me almost 2 more degrees slack and an even longer wheelbase. It's now just about at 64 degrees HTA. I also have a 60mm / 20 degree riser stem and 35mm riser handlebars. As you raise your handlebars, you reduce your reach dimension. That's why I put a slightly longer stem on it. All this push me backwards more centered in the bike where I could actually feel the rear shock working. Super long reach without raising the ground to grip height puts you in an uncomfortable 'stink bug' position. I call it a fork centric position. Most of your weight is too far forward on your handlebars. Hard on your hands, wrists and shoulders.


Proof your bike was poorly designed for your size.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Fuse6F said:


> Proof your bike was poorly designed for your size.


Exactly.


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## RandomRider87 (Jan 24, 2021)

theDogger2 said:


> So have some direct questions all centering around height and weight?
> My back ground - Ex-Professional Euro B-Ball for 11 yrs I am 50 yrs old now and ready to hang up MX racing
> Still in much better than avg shape for my age
> Early years thought that I was going down the path to Race for a living but then had a huge growth spirt
> ...


 I see that you stated you are out in Idaho, but if you are ever around the Greater Sacramento area i have an XXL megatower with a Zebb and coil on it you can throw a leg over, and a built up XXL Tallboy with a Fox 36 lowered down to 140 with a Super Deluxe ultimate and cascade link in the rear that makes it 130 rear travel you are welcomed to see how you like them. I am possibly looking to get ride of the Tallboy as well and will make a good deal for you if interested! I faced the same issues getting into bikes and trying to find my size, 6'6 245 so my bikes i kind of built around that. The tallboy is built like an enduro bike that does most of what Tahoe has to offer.


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Have you looked at YT? They have XXL frames....
Wheels..... Youll need some durable enduro rims like DT Swiss EX 511 hoops. Im 6'3" 235 and have these hoops mounted to a set of Factor hubs on my Enduro Ebike and they have taken a beating and have never wavered from true.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

CRM6 said:


> Have you looked at YT? They have XXL frames....
> Wheels..... Youll need some durable enduro rims like DT Swiss EX 511 hoops. Im 6'3" 235 and have these hoops mounted to a set of Factor hubs on my Enduro Ebike and they have taken a beating and have never wavered from true.


It's possible things have changed. But back in the day when they started their XXL frames they were only measuring what most would do for XL frames. Just something to be cautious of?

(I'd have bought a YT back then more then once, but always missed out when the right XXL build I wanted was in stock... I swear I'd be checking constantly, then I'd be lax and stop checking and read somewhere they were back in stock, then I'd go look at they'd be out of stock AGAIN...  )


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

stiingya said:


> It's possible things have changed. But back in the day when they started their XXL frames they were only measuring what most would do for XL frames. Just something to be cautious of?
> 
> (I'd have bought a YT back then more then once, but always missed out when the right XXL build I wanted was in stock... I swear I'd be checking constantly, then I'd be lax and stop checking and read somewhere they were back in stock, then I'd go look at they'd be out of stock AGAIN...  )


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

RandomRider87 said:


> I see that you stated you are out in Idaho, but if you are ever around the Greater Sacramento area i have an XXL megatower with a Zebb and coil on it you can throw a leg over, and a built up XXL Tallboy with a Fox 36 lowered down to 140 with a Super Deluxe ultimate and cascade link in the rear that makes it 130 rear travel you are welcomed to see how you like them. I am possibly looking to get ride of the Tallboy as well and will make a good deal for you if interested! I faced the same issues getting into bikes and trying to find my size, 6'6 245 so my bikes i kind of built around that. The tallboy is built like an enduro bike that does most of what Tahoe has to offer.


How do you like the tallboy? 6’7 and thinking about a tallboy XXL for a downcountry-ish bike. How is it compared to the megatower? 

Currently on an XXL transition sentinel and it fits decently. I’ve got a zeb and a coil on it, it’s my enduro duty bike 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## whipnet (Dec 30, 2021)

A tandem bike. You could sit on the back seat and drive from there.....😛 (haha)

*


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## RandomRider87 (Jan 24, 2021)

socalrider77 said:


> How do you like the tallboy? 6’7 and thinking about a tallboy XXL for a downcountry-ish bike. How is it compared to the megatower?
> 
> Currently on an XXL transition sentinel and it fits decently. I’ve got a zeb and a coil on it, it’s my enduro duty bike
> 
> ...


The tallboy the way I have it now is pretty amazing. It’s so capable and is a dream to climb. I race it in some XC races locally too; it truly is a do it all bike. Just raced the dual slalom at Sea Otter last weekend and was the perfect bike for it. I feel small on it as I feel there is still room on it for a bigger rider.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

CRM6 said:


> View attachment 1980130


That's a 10mm longer reach then my XL Titan and a shorter reach then my XL Trance X. So that's why I'm saying their XXL bikes are more like other brands XL's. But thanks for the HUGE screen shots...


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

CRM6 said:


> View attachment 1980130


Those are XL numbers for most bikes (specialized, santa cruz, transition, banshee, etc)


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## theDogger2 (11 mo ago)

whipnet said:


> A tandem bike. You could sit on the back seat and drive from there.....😛 (haha)
> 
> *


Oh we have out of work Comedians on the forum that poss. What happened your dreams never worked out and you moved to the Portland Area, you have no responsibilities, Portland is where people go to give up and learn how to uni-cycle and open a crystal shop or start to training to become aspiring magicians assistant! Portland Area is like a modern day Lord of the Flies! Just slightly ahead of Seattle and the Bay Area!

You must be the guy that vertically challenged guy that takes the exit row on the airlines and feet can't even touch the floor? .....😛 (haha)


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Bulkhead and exit rows are the only way I fly


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Heaps of great options for wheel components for writ-large humans these days.

Onyx or DT hubs, more rims than you can shake a dead rat at, quality spokes and nips, myriad tubeless ready tread options with even more casing options.

I'm in SW ID and would be happy to lace something and 'meet in the middle' on my way up to paddle Clearwater/Lochsa/Salmon runoff this spring.


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