# Flat Pedals- Shoe recommendation



## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

Partial Noob here again.  Switching from clipless to flats and am wondering about a good shoe. I guess something like a 510 would be fine. My concerns are

1 )Something that is good for hike-a-biking up long hills, possibly in wet mud slick conditions, but more so probably dry dirt.

2 )The lightest weight possible ! This is huge factor as I am planning another long xc endurance ride.

3) probably a stiff sole, stiff midsole. Not sure. a mid top type thing maybe.

Basically need a lightweight hiking shoe, that doubles as a good mtn bike shoe. any suggestions.


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## DannyHuynh (Sep 13, 2011)

i have a pair of Teva Pinners comming in the mail tomorrow. cant wait to try them out!


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## Jim Holloman (Oct 3, 2011)

I have no experience with 5-10, but they appear to be a good choice at a good price point. I wish there was a retailer in my area. FiveTen Web Store


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

510s cost too much for basically a skate shoe with an abnormally soft bottom (wooptie doo).

Probably not a popular choice here on mtbr but If you run a platforms with toe clips, you can basically run any one of your favorite hiking shoes and it doesn't really matter. I run MG1s with Forte toe-clips _loose enough_ to allow me to still quickly dab my foot on the ground when necessary but ensures I don't get any dreaded slip & shin gouges. :thumbsup: Having your favorite boots means you're also_ well equipped _when you're forced to dismount and have to hike for a while (i tend to ride where I'm not suppose to  ).


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

*At risk of being "that guy"*

Are you sure you want to switch? Or, are you sure you want to switch and stay switched for long rides and your event?

I think the difference in efficiency is overstated, but six hours later, small differences start to really add up. Unless your event is on a course that's quite technical (and I know they vary a ton,) and the clipless pedals are actively messing you up I think you may be better off sticking with clipless once you start really loading on the volume and for your event. I did a few weeks in flat pedals a while ago and I think they helped me handle my bike more efficiently, and I'm probably going to do that again shortly. So don't think I'm dumping on flat pedals in general. I just think that when the hours really stack up, clipless pedals are a better tool.

If the flat pedals are just a training tool, it frees you not to stress out about the weight of the shoes, or sacrifice what they do for you on the bike so that you can walk faster.


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## DannyHuynh (Sep 13, 2011)

my shoes came in the mail today after i got home from my ride. they feel pretty light. the bottoms of the shoes are stiff so there is a lot of power transfer into the pedals. cant wait to try them out next time i ride.

i also have MG1 pedals.


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

"Are you sure you want to switch? Or, are you sure you want to switch and stay switched for long rides and your event?"

Well right now and for my last endurance ride I have CB acid pedals combined with Lake shoes. (the very light lakes with the cobra system- cant remember the model##name) You know I really did like this setup. Light and easy clipping in and out, and also SORTa doubled as a flat pedal, but not big enough surface to really be great to just step and go, and slick to boot. The shoes were actually good for walking and hiking over stuff also. The clipless effect is great too for long grinds up fireroads and that sort of thing and Yeah I am concerned that going flat pedal how that would be after 10 hours of pedalling. 

But at the same time I was really getting sick of clipping and unclipping and the time to clip in, even if it was just a split second, when your as exhausted as I was near the end, all I wanted to do was step down and not fool with being perfectly aligned.etc. 

So that is why I came to the conclusion that just flat pedals would be the ticket. But yes the draw back of not being clipped in on long hauls that arent technical does concern me. 

I guess if flats did not hinder me on long pedals and efficiency there, or worse cause some sort of squishy sole bent foot pain after 8 hours, then I would be okay, and I guess the only way to find out is to try it.

Then again I had a second thought, why not the two sided pedals, flat on one side and clip in ability on the other. What are the options there? 

teva pinners huh? Im gonna google them now : )


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## Hikers Only (Oct 18, 2010)

I currently run a set of MG-1 ti pedals in conjunction with a pair of 510 freeriders and they are a super grippy combo, that allow for a lot of control, but also allow you to bail quick if need be! I have used this set up for everything from 20 mile rides with over 4000 feet of climbing elevation to super technical downhills, off 10-12 foot drops to transtions, jump parks and more.

also the freeriders are nice because they have a stiff sole, good toe protecion and are comfortable for walking in.

I would be carefull of toe clips, I used to ride these a long time ago and once you become more advanced they become quite dangerous. I once broke a bone in my foot as it got stuck in the cage after hitting a tree and going over the bars!


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Shoes 5.10 pick one
Pedal? I like mine Twenty6 Prerunner ti


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I too love the 5.10's. I have the Freeriders, bought a pair for my wife, brother, and riding buddy. 
Very firm dole, great grip, and they are holding up well so far. Only had them a few months...


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## desertred (Jun 9, 2010)

DannyHuynh said:


> my shoes came in the mail today after i got home from my ride. they feel pretty light. the bottoms of the shoes are stiff so there is a lot of power transfer into the pedals. cant wait to try them out next time i ride.
> 
> i also have MG1 pedals.


This is the same combo I moved to earlier this year when choosing to move from clipless to flats on my AM bike.

For the OP, I might suggest hanging on to your current clipless set up for the long XC rides. Also, I wouldn't think that most skate type shoes would not fair well in muddy/slick conditions if you need to hike-a-bike (although I have no experience at this). There is not a lot of biting tread on these type of shoes like regular mtb shoes. There's a reason why flats have pins. I like to use my flats on tech rides and clipless on the lndurance XC type rides.


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## DannyHuynh (Sep 13, 2011)

The pins on my mg1's really catch into the tread of my shoe. Very very very grippy! these shoes are great. I'll do a real trail ride tomorrow and test them further. Teva pinner $60 on amazon.


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I run Answer Rove pedals...


















Answer Rove FR Pedal at Price Point

And some Nevados mid height hiking boots... They grip just fine and are waterproof!

Nevados Brown/Black/Red Men's Bernese Mid


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I feel like there has to be more to this than I've read. OP - how long have you been mountain biking? How many endurance races have you done? What format? When's your next event? What kind of bike are/drivetrain are you using?

I ask because while I've only done a couple myself, and much shorter than 10 hours, improving my ability to walk is not something I see effecting my times.


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## r29 (Mar 12, 2010)

Teva Links!


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

Okay I had analysis paralysis trying to figure this out, but I'm BACK, with new found wisdom and understanding. :madmax: 

Well to answer your question, my race is ORAMM, in which last year was my first attempt with not much real mtn biking to speak of beforehand. I dropped out of the race only a couple of miles from the finish with full body cramps, severe nausea, in the fetal positon, crying for my momma. - I lost 12 lbs and was sick for five days following  

Now so you understand, I road bike ALOT, accomplished the road assualt on mt mitchell and bridge to bridge at 7 hours. I also completed several triathlons including a half ironman in 90 degree heat and actually won a first place novice division in a local sprint tri.

I am tellin you this as an indicator and a warning to all....never attempt to do ORAMM , Anyway, The thing i was not prepared for at ORAMM was the other muscle groups that were involved and intense focus necessary.

I have figured out that I am good with clipless for everything, except going downhill over anything gnarly. Several times my quote was "oh hell no" as i dismount and walked down over treacherous looking spots. lost alot of time doing this. I think with flat pedals I would have least possibly given a few of them a try.

The two sided pedal idea seemed okay until I realized they hang flat side down. The crank brothers 50/50 flat/clip deal seems like a possiblity..

Those 26's are very nice, pricey though. This year I am on a budget. I am seriously considering this MG1 and either the freerides or the Teva ..something


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

I meant the Crank Brothers Mallets, Large platform but with the ability to clip in.

I have the Lake MX 330's and I have no complaints about them, comfortable and lightweight.


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

With the candy or acid pedals , you may as well just have an eggbeater because there really is no flat pedalling to it, even though it appears there may be-- as slick and small as their "flat pedal" surface is.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I made the decision to try to do my endurance rides off-road when I was getting ready for my race last season. I'm glad I did.

I also learned from an earlier, shorter race that I have to pay attention to nutrition on a long MTB ride in a different way from on a road ride. I can't just stick a power bar in my back pocket.

I think if you try to do a lot more mountain biking, you'll be better prepared for a mountain bike race.  It also gives you an opportunity to figure out what kind of sports drink you tolerate, and if you need to water it down. I do. And, how much you can eat, and what. For me, it's different from what I do on a road ride. Not hugely, but enough that I can (and did) mess myself up if I try to do things the same way.

A lot of competitive mountain bikers were BMX kids, and most of them have several seasons on you. So it might not be in the cards for you to be as technical a rider as the competition this year. But you can close a lot of that gap in a season.

Get the flat pedals. They're a great training tool, and maybe you'll decide I'm wrong when your race rolls around. Equipment aside, though, you've clearly identified two limiters that you can fix - bike handling and pacing/nutrition on the bike.

Good luck! (Now you HAVE to post after the event.)


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## wsmac (Sep 5, 2010)

barrelquest said:


> Partial Noob here again.  Switching from clipless to flats and am wondering about a good shoe. I guess something like a 510 would be fine. My concerns are
> 
> 1 )Something that is good for hike-a-biking up long hills, possibly in wet mud slick conditions, but more so probably dry dirt.


I can't think of any shoe built for flats that would work in slick conditions.
I've been running TEVA Links since just after they came out (still have not washed they yet and they still don't stink! Or else I'm getting used to the smell ).

I can tell you that any flat-soled shoe is not going to get you up any slippery slope well at all, and even on flat ground they have no traction.

I ride all year round so I definitely see my share of water, mud, and other poor traction conditions.

How about a pair of Keens? Mine don't seem too heavy, they have good tread for hiking, and stiff enough to ride in.
I haven't used them on my mtb though.. just my SS around town.


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

KVW said:


> 510s cost too much for basically a skate shoe with an abnormally soft bottom (wooptie doo).


At least on my Impacts the bottom is a lot stiffer then anything I've seen on skate shoes, it's just the compound of the bottom which is soft.



> Probably not a popular choice here on mtbr but If you run a platforms with toe clips, you can basically run any one of your favorite hiking shoes and it doesn't really matter. I run MG1s with Forte toe-clips _loose enough_ to allow me to still quickly dab my foot on the ground when necessary but ensures I don't get any dreaded slip & shin gouges. :thumbsup: Having your favorite boots means you're also_ well equipped _when you're forced to dismount and have to hike for a while (i tend to ride where I'm not suppose to  ).


I ride with warm hiking shoes in the Winter when it's below -5C and they work pretty well too. The bottoms are not as sticky, but even 5-10's are not so sticky when it's really cold. Also I have hiking shoes with a pretty stiff bottom which helps (and they grip the pedals pretty well too). I think they would be hotter if it was warmer.

When things are really slippery the 5-10's rule. Not just because they grip to the pedals (if the pins are high enough other shoes will grip decently too), but because they have far better grip on slippery rock and roots. They still won't have a lot of grip on really slimy surfaces, but at least they will hold a bit.

I've had the impacts for over 4 years and they are still running strong. During that time I've killed 3 pairs of skate shoes that I've just run occasionally during hot summer weather because the pins on the pedals have trashed the bottoms. For some reason that's not an issue on the 5-10's. I'm thinking I would actually have saved money by having a second cooler pair of 5-10's to run during the summer...


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

dropadrop said:


> For some reason that's not an issue on the 5-10's. I'm thinking I would actually have saved money by having a second cooler pair of 5-10's to run during the summer...


if you find a pair of 510s that are cool to wear in the summer, let me know. The freeriders are still hot to wear when it is 100 degrees.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

barrelquest said:


> Partial Noob here again.  Switching from clipless to flats and am wondering about a good shoe. I guess something like a 510 would be fine. My concerns are
> 
> 1 )Something that is good for hike-a-biking up long hills, possibly in wet mud slick conditions, but more so probably dry dirt.
> 
> ...


I don't know about the applicability to long distance XC races (I think I'd want to be clipped in for that type of ride, personally), but for AM duties, I've had great success w/ decent platforms (Kona something-or-others, 4 yrs old and still work fine) and good hiking shoes. Currently, I'm riding in my Vasque light hikers. They have great support in the sole, stick to the pedals just fine, aren't too hot in the summer, and obviously are ideal for hike-a-bike sections. I've not worn 'dedicated' mtb shoes since I ditched the clipless years ago, so I can't say how they compare to 5.10s or the Tevas. But I've never had an instance of losing a pedal or otherwise trouble keeping hooked up in the hiking shoes. The soles do get a little torn up, so after a couple years the hikers become my lawn-mowing shoes, but at least I can use them for something else when their service life ends on the bike.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

dropadrop said:


> At least on my Impacts the bottom is a lot stiffer then anything I've seen on skate shoes, it's just the compound of the bottom which is soft.
> 
> I ride with warm hiking shoes in the Winter when it's below -5C and they work pretty well too. The bottoms are not as sticky, but even 5-10's are not so sticky when it's really cold. Also I have hiking shoes with a pretty stiff bottom which helps (and they grip the pedals pretty well too). I think they would be hotter if it was warmer.
> 
> ...


OK, I'm going to try out an offical mtb skate shoe and see what the hoopla is all about. The Teva pinner as DannyHuynh pointed out is only 60 on amazon so I'll give those a try. I know they're not Impacts but the last time i bought 120 dollars shoes was when I was a kid in the early 90s that fell for the Jordan craze. If they provide a significant advantage over my cheapy skate shoes, then I'll recant my comment bout em. :thumbsup:


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

Yeah ive got a lot to learn before next year, I think last year I was having so much fun I just forgot to eat and drink and of course then it all went bad.  

Technically on the trails I wasnt all that terrible or anything, I was manuvering well, cautious though, as I had another goal of not crashing. (Actually crashed 3 times, but they weren't bad) one of the crashes was due to the clipless pedals:thumbsup: See on my road bike i always unclip right foot at stopping, but going down some steep switchbacks I stopped along one hairpin to let faster riders pass, and it was heading left and like a noob of course it sloped that way and i wasnt ready for it and didn' t unclip left in time and fell down, and rolled about 3 times down the slope - all this happened in front of two chicks..kinda embarrasing. :skep:

One problem with the clipless is even though you are clipped in solid, it seems to me you are missing alot without that large flat surface area, and entire shoe bottom surface contact which seems like you have greater control. The clipless your like a ballerina or something , relying on nothing but the ball of your foot for control. plus the thick cleat tread adds to the uneasyness with the height of the rubber. 

I mean its not horrible, it worked for me okay,but the subtle difference that I am speaking of between flat and clip is what I am trying to weigh the pros and cons.

For traction i am not sure that just a flat skate shoe would not have been sufficient. I cant remember walking up anthing more that rocky based dry packed topsoil. Of course at the end of the race after it rained there was one switchback that had a well worn hard packed red mud surface that was slickernbabysh*t.
I think I stood at one switchback even with my cleaty lakes trying to figure out how to get down around it for about 20 minutes. I wanted to blaze a new path through the woods .

I think if there was a flat shoe not like a skate bottom, but with atleast a small amout of tread like a running shoe, you would be okay.

The Light hiker idea does sound like an option...of course if i do go with a flat pedal then i have shin shreddage to think about...greeeeeaaat


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## Hardtail 355 (Oct 19, 2011)

I have the older version of these.


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

Eckstream1 said:


> I run Answer Rove pedals...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:
I've got the gold ones

OP, I have been using DC shoes. My son thinks I'm cool!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

barrelquest said:


> Yeah ive got a lot to learn before next year, I think last year I was having so much fun I just forgot to eat and drink and of course then it all went bad.


Figure out how much eating and drinking you can tolerate. Do it on a schedule. It seems anal, but they're great for those of us who need a little help to either limit or do an adequate amount of eating/drinking/training/whatever.



> Technically on the trails I wasnt all that terrible or anything, I was manuvering well, cautious though, as I had another goal of not crashing. (Actually crashed 3 times, but they weren't bad) one of the crashes was due to the clipless pedals:thumbsup: See on my road bike i always unclip right foot at stopping, but going down some steep switchbacks I stopped along one hairpin to let faster riders pass, and it was heading left and like a noob of course it sloped that way and i wasnt ready for it and didn' t unclip left in time and fell down, and rolled about 3 times down the slope - all this happened in front of two chicks..kinda embarrasing. :skep:


Learn to unclip your left foot on your road bike too. What pedal system do you use on that bike? If there's no good reason to use different systems (I do, and I'm not especially happy about it,) use the same system on your road bike that you do on your mountain bike.



> One problem with the clipless is even though you are clipped in solid, it seems to me you are missing alot without that large flat surface area, and entire shoe bottom surface contact which seems like you have greater control. The clipless your like a ballerina or something , relying on nothing but the ball of your foot for control. plus the thick cleat tread adds to the uneasyness with the height of the rubber.


Sounds like you chose the wrong pedal system, maybe the wrong shoe. I don't move around on my pedals at all with my MTB clipless setup. Actually, that's one of the things I like about it. It's maybe not as secure as ski boots, but still very secure. In a clipless pedal system, the entire sole of the shoe replaces the platform on the pedal. That's why clipless pedals can be so small, and why (IMHO) "casual" shoes are a complete waste of time. It's also why clipless pedal systems suck if you're not clipped in.

I think that for a clipless pedal system to be a useful tool for riding faster, you need to be willing to commit to being clipped in all the time, or at least all the time when you have your foot on the pedal. I have my opinion about doing turns a la motocross, but someone who wants to can still do that with clipless, and clip back in in time for the next switchback. I don't know what shoe you have. To make this system work, though, get a fairly serious cycling shoe. If you feel insecure with your pedal, try a different system. Time ATAC Aliums are my personal favorite, but they're certainly not the only answer. You might even want something with recentering float. I'd rather have a little extra motion - it's kinder to my knee.



> I mean its not horrible, it worked for me okay,but the subtle difference that I am speaking of between flat and clip is what I am trying to weigh the pros and cons.
> 
> For traction i am not sure that just a flat skate shoe would not have been sufficient. I cant remember walking up anthing more that rocky based dry packed topsoil. Of course at the end of the race after it rained there was one switchback that had a well worn hard packed red mud surface that was slickernbabysh*t.
> I think I stood at one switchback even with my cleaty lakes trying to figure out how to get down around it for about 20 minutes. I wanted to blaze a new path through the woods .
> ...


You've just described the reason that clipless pedal MTB shoes are cleated like a soccer shoe. For cyclocross, in which there's a lot of running by design and some of it is up a muddy or crumbling slope, most MTB shoes even have little sockets for installation of an additional metal toe spike. Very helpful in that particular situation, although they take a little getting used to.

I've used trail runners and trekking boots at different times too. They're really fine. From what I hear, a purpose-built mountain bike shoe is a whole lot better. The "magic" with 5.10 shoes is supposed to be the rubber. So you might consider one of their approach boots. Bear in mind that this is now speculation on my part. I don't use flat pedals enough to see it as worthwhile for me to get the shoes.

There are a few different ideas for training for endurance races (whether 90 minutes or 9 hours) that people base their training decisions on. You can either follow the "train your weaknesses" approach, in which you work on the areas where you find you lose the most positions during a race, or you can look at what you spend the most time doing during a race, based on the idea that you have the potential to cut the most minutes there for the same proportional improvement as in an area that you spend less time doing. Obviously "train your weaknesses" would suggest, as I read your posts, that you spend a lot of time working on your technical writing. Other posters have recommended skills camps or doing some lift-served DH. I've done neither, and don't want to make a specific recommendation. Beyond ride your mountain bike off-road more.  If you look at what you spend the most time doing during a race, I'm willing to bet, and sincerely hope, that it's not walking. For most people, it's riding up hill. Unless a race course is very, very flat, or has steep but non-technical fire road climbs and very difficult singletrack descents, that's just the way it goes. It takes longer to climb. Maybe a very strong rider who's just started riding off-road could have disproportionate enough skills to make this different. Anyway, keep this in mind with your equipment selection - will you cut enough time out of the twenty minutes you spend walking over the course of a day to justify the loss in efficiency in the six hours of climbing? Or whatever your proportions are.

Anyway, I don't care to say if you should address finding a better clipless pedal system now or later. And I don't know if you have worthwhile shoes. Certainly you're getting a lot of expensive equipment recommendations, two complete new pedal systems would be kind of a lot to buy all at once, or would be for me. But it sounds to me like you've got a couple of problems you need to address - the bike handling skills problem and a clipless pedal system that's not really working for you. I think improving your ability to walk in your cycling shoes isn't going to be a hugely useful pursuit if you spend the six months you have to work on it working on being a better mountain biker. Figure out a midweek day when you can get away with some extra off-road time. Don't go a weekend without spending some real time off-road. Try and sneak some in on the other day; I know that's hard for adults with jobs and lives. There's something a little special about working on skills-based sports on consecutive days, I think. That means you'll get 48+ off-road days between now and the next ORAMM. That should make you a much better rider.


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

Longest reply ever...
--
Stephen


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

I have CB Acid pedals, with Lake M330 shoes and that setup was really really nice, I have no real complaints with the system other than in my last post talking about how I was felt like a 510 on a platform would possibly be a better interface and give me personally more security on downhill technical sections.

This model of Lakes are really light and easy in and out clip, feels real soft and when clipped in the tread hits perfectly with the "platform" pedal surface of the acids. I did no adjusting just at all thats just how it worked out.

I have speedplay on my roadbike, and the reviews on Frogs looked crappy, that is how I ended up where I am with the crankbrothers.

What I've decided to do is just test out the platform and shoe combo for a while.

After seeing the Answer rove pedals, I like the way they dont have sharp grips, then I ran across these Sub4 deals which are generally the same except much lighter. i think i am going to go with the sub4's .

But you are right, I should not buy a shoe with the intention of walking, so I am not going to worry to much about that now, But what I do want is LIGHTWEIGHT.

ORAMM is described as a road bikers mountain bike race. and the strange thing is --what killed me was the relentless climbs up steep gravel roads--miles and miles of neverending switchbacks. The total distance is 63 miles with 11,000 feet of climbing.

After this race though it showed me the importance of proper hydration and nutrition....i thought I knew this pryor to ORamm from other races I had done, but this race caused me to take a SERIOUS look into the subject. Again, I was close to having to be airlifted out of the woods 

Yeah but I think I have concluded for Road biking clipless great, for Mountain biking over rocks roots and all sorts of obstacles, while I can do clipless, I personally will be better off on platforms


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## cman8 (Jul 27, 2011)

I use to run trail runners and skate shoes. Now I have some 5.10s. Best shoe on flats I have ever used, but then again the other shoes I used to run werent meant for biking. but 5.10s are extremely grippy on my flats and seem to be of great quality. figure ill wear these for a year or two before they need replacing while my trail runners or skate shoes would get beat up after about 6 months.


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## jnbqm9 (Apr 8, 2009)

drwx said:


> Longest reply ever...
> --
> Stephen


Andrw brought up some great points.

OP, have you checked out the reviews portion of MTBR?


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## fesch (Jul 30, 2009)

I use 5 10 and Wellgo MG-1 pedals. 5 10 are the best shoes I've found for riding with platform pedals. Gene Hamilton of BetterRide recommends them as well. I like the MG-1 as you can get the for $40 on ebay. I have three bikes with MG-1s.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

barrelquest said:


> I have CB Acid pedals, with Lake M330 shoes and that setup was really really nice, I have no real complaints with the system other than in my last post talking about how I was felt like a 510 on a platform would possibly be a better interface and give me personally more security on downhill technical sections.
> 
> This model of Lakes are really light and easy in and out clip, feels real soft and when clipped in the tread hits perfectly with the "platform" pedal surface of the acids. I did no adjusting just at all thats just how it worked out.
> 
> ...


You complained that you felt like you had to balance on the ball of your foot earlier. To me, that would be a real complaint. Frankly, I have to look at secondary effects of cleat position to even have a sense of where it is with my cycling shoes. And I'm quite happy with that - those things are little, not something I want digging into my foot for hours and hours. Not super relevant, I think you're right to switch to flats for a while. But, something to keep in the back of your mind.

What kind of gearing are you using? I looked at the description for ORAMM. My 50-miler had a little short of 6000' of climbing, with the most memorable being a ~1600' singletrack climb, a ~1200' fire road climb, and the ~600' singletrack climb at the end, mostly because I was getting really tired at that point, and didn't have a great idea of how much mileage was left. The fire road climb was difficult because I went after it hard on the singletrack climb, it lasted a long time, and it was very consistent, something that can be more fatiguing for me then variation. I was glad to have sissy gears.  I'm sure I used them. I used them a lot on the first singletrack climb too, I think, but for me, those climbs are easier to get through because there's variation. Anyway, switchback climbs almost always offer some variation too - they tend to kick up right around the switchback, and mellow a little bit in between. So you can use the variation in terrain to stay a little fresher. Try to spin up the shallower portions, and get out of the saddle for the steep bits. If you don't have enough gears to do that, get more gears. The bike is there to help you.

For me, the two biggest things that clipless pedals help with are technical climbs and sprinting. I think a good flats system should give you the traction to spin a nice, high cadence if your technique is reasonably good. (If it sucks, there's something else to practice this winter.) Since it's a long race and most climbs are on fire roads, while I still think clipless pedals would be better, I think it won't make as much of a difference. If you decide you're definitely doing this event on flats, get a set for your road bike too.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

I just purchased Five Ten impact low this week and have riden twice. One 10 mile ride and another 18 mile and they definately get the job done. I have only been riding a year (usually up to four times a week) They really stick to my Forte platforms. I got them online for $102 including shipping. It took three days to get them in the mail. At this limited experience time I really recommend them.

Before that I was wearing Lowa light hiking shoes(best hiking shoes for my feet i have ever worn) and thought they were good until I got the five tens. But then before I bought my forte pedals I was riding with a pair of $18 cage pedals that I thought were good.(i think i have learned something)

One thing I have learned in the last year is there is a reason there is a market for sport specific clothes especialy Mtbing gear and you get what you pay for (usually).

I am editing to add that I have been riding at Annadel State Park which is pretty rocky depending on which trail you are on and it used to really piss me off when my feet would bounce off the pedals. That hasn't happened the last two rides with the Five Tens.


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## sjhiker (Apr 25, 2008)

Use a pair of trail runners.

I like them better than the 5.10s. Trail running shoes (I have ASICs), have a firm sole, with a block tread that fits into the spikes quite nicely. A huge benefit is that they breath as the upper material is often mesh and much more breathable than the 5.10s. They've also got more tread for when you need to hike a bike.

I have two years ago model of the 2170s. You'll often find these at dedicated running stores.


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## Zuper (Feb 5, 2012)

Someone needs to come up with a clip less all mountain pedal that's comfortable to ride unclipped.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

So I have ridden five rides with my five ten impact low maybe 75 miles total on pretty rocky trails since I bought them about two weeks ago? Anyway I have come to the conclusion that no shoe in combination with any platform pedal is going to keep your feet from bouncing off all the time. I do think the 5/10s got rid of 75% of the problem. I think I will file the pins on my forte platforms down to a sharp point and see what happens. At this point, that is the only way I can think of to improve their performance. The good thing about my fortes is that the pins are just set screws that can be purchased at any hardware store if I screw them up. All in all I have to say the 5/10s really are an improvement over just light hiking shoes. Night and day difference. I know the pins on my pedals fit into the grooves on the hiking shoes...(yadaw yadaw) but unless you ride with them you will never know the improvement.


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## slumpey (Nov 20, 2011)

I've been using my Adidas Sumba for shoes and Wellgo Mg-1 for pedals. Seems to sticking fairly good.


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## KogKiller (Feb 4, 2012)

I really like the 5.10 freeriders. Works well and looks great.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

Irideon said:


> So I have ridden five rides with my five ten impact low maybe 75 miles total on pretty rocky trails since I bought them about two weeks ago? Anyway I have come to the conclusion that no shoe in combination with any platform pedal is going to keep your feet from bouncing off all the time. I do think the 5/10s got rid of 75% of the problem. I think I will file the pins on my forte platforms down to a sharp point and see what happens. At this point, that is the only way I can think of to improve their performance. The good thing about my fortes is that the pins are just set screws that can be purchased at any hardware store if I screw them up. All in all I have to say the 5/10s really are an improvement over just light hiking shoes. Night and day difference. I know the pins on my pedals fit into the grooves on the hiking shoes...(yadaw yadaw) but unless you ride with them you will never know the improvement.


So here it is two weeks later and six rides since the above post and I have a couple more observations: I do wish they were a little bit more stiff in the soles. Other than that they are an excellent choice for platfomrs. I am very impressed with how they do stick to my pedals and at the moment can't imagine how that particular feature could be improved. It may be just soft rubber but they stick much better than the hiking shoes I used to wear. They really do improve my ride. That said, the lack of stiffness also makes them acceptable for walking as well as riding.

At this point in my life I can afford to own lots of shoes but if I was back in my younger days and low on funds I would buy them because they are good riding shoes and you could also wear them wlith jeans... After a bunch of miles I highly recommend them.


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## wsmac (Sep 5, 2010)

So Irideon did you file those pins to points?
I think that would lessen the gripping abilities and raise the risk of a serious slash to the shin.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

No I didn't file them down. I reconsidered and didn't do it for the exact reason you suggest. I still think they would adhere to the shoes better but the risk/reward ratio is all screwed up. As far as the shoes go I do like them alot. They would be better riding shoes if they were more stiff but as a Mtn biker I have to consider I may have to hike out alot of miles pushing/carrying my bike(haven't had to yet) so the level of stiffness is a good compromise between riding and walking.


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## 01-0041 (Feb 15, 2012)

barrelquest said:


> Partial Noob here again.  Switching from clipless to flats and am wondering about a good shoe. I guess something like a 510 would be fine. My concerns are
> 
> 1 )Something that is good for hike-a-biking up long hills, possibly in wet mud slick conditions, but more so probably dry dirt.
> 
> ...


When I was looking at shoes last spring I ran across the KEEN Coronado Cruiser. Since I've been riding with flats since '06 I thought these would work well. After a few times wearing them they broke in, are very comfortable to wear around, and still look good.


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## akiracornell (Jan 16, 2012)

i have some input. i just switched to flats because i like to ride more aggresive. and for the same reason as you i did so; you're willing to try more and ride harder and when your fatigued your not stuck. that being said if i were to ride all day long im thinking clippless is going to be more effecient. you just cant quite spin as well with flats. if you do majority of your riding stomping at slower cadences then maybe. if you switch at first your feet will feel loose and you realize how much you lift in your pedal stroke. it only take 20 minute or so to adjust and if force you to learn how to manipulate your bike better. But again i made the switch for fun sake. long long rides = disciplined spinning and conditioning. for what you gain in freedom you give up in long term pedaling. you will be forced to stomp climb when you could opt to spin. why not refine your bike and balance skills with flats and tune back into clips to race. I definately think you can build your bike skills and confidence with flats and then go back to clips. 

BTW i had wellgo wam D10 pedals that are half side clip half flat with a good size platform. it can get annoying finding the clip or flat side for that matter. i bet if you were racing it may be a irritating distraction in given situations. But it is nice to flip to the flat side for steeper aggresive downhill. The problem with that is that most clip shoes dont have the sole meant for the flat side. which sucks. so you could do a skatetype spd, such as 5.10 falcons, minnars, hellcats, vans warner, sixsixone filter. but all of these are heavier shoes which add resistance to the spinning part, again perfect for shorter fun rides that let you try more. But for fun i just go flats cuz i dont have to unclipp to try aggresive turn or rock features, not just steep downhills.


woops i didnt read the second page before responding


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## junior1210 (Sep 9, 2011)

FWIW I wear 5.10. Sam Hill 2's with a pair of cheap DiamondBack platforms. Pedals are o.k. no great shakes. The Sam Hill's.... let me say this, I love wearing them. They are very comfortable to me, but the are HEAVY! I wear them to work and am on my feet all day, but with a gel insert and decent socks there's no problem. Yet I have to tell you the shoes are heavy. I keep wearing them though, since they are very comfortable and I figure anything that helps my legs get stronger can't be a bad thing at this point. If you want a good shoe these work, but if you want light, pass these by.


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## wsmac (Sep 5, 2010)

I posted in this thread about my Links and how my Roves are chewing up the soles...
http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/teva-links-urge-archi-enduro-763417-new-post.html

I have no problem climbing with flats, btw. I recently rode up Mission Peak near Fremont, CA... 2000ft in 3miles.
Perhaps I'm just not as sensitive to it, but I don't see any great difference between flats and being clipped in for the most part. Certainly there are times I do, just not most of the time climbing or not. I definitely have more fun DH on flats!


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Been happy with this setup as unpopular as toe clips are on this forum. 

MG1 ($38 - ebay) 
Ti axles ($42 - ebay)
Forte Toe Clips/straps ($20 - Performance Bike)

Get the freedom of flats without the shin gouging. Also easier on the knees than clipless (still recovering from a bad case of jumper's knee).

Keep em loose - not meant for pulling up on the pedal although it does still sort-of work even when loose. Forte toe clips hold their shape well so it's quick and easy to get your foot in them and tough enough to let them hang upside down and drag when you're having to remount on an incline and can't fuss with trying to get your foot back in them. :thumbsup:










I am using Teva Pinners as biking shoes - they're OK. Pretty stiff sole but tight as hell. Cheaper than 5.10s although I dont know how they compare because I've never had 5.10 shoes before so I have no idea if they measure up.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Do you know the weight of the Mg-1's with the Ti spindle ?


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

danielsilva said:


> Do you know the weight of the Mg-1's with the Ti spindle ?


Yah, it didn't knock off as much weight as I hoped.

Weighing one pedal at a time, it brought it from 182 to 150 grams on a park tool scale. But overall the price with the Ti spindle still comes out cheaper than most pedals in its class. :thumbsup:


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## Zaf (Mar 1, 2012)

Can't post URL links yet, so you'll just have to google "Merrell shoes" and click the appropriate link.

I run a pair of the Men's Merrell Moab Gore-Tex XCR for my flat riding, and have nothing but good reports on them. Do a bit of hiking/bushwalking in them as well, and had them for coming on a year now, heavy usage, fit beautifully, and no wear or tear on them yet. Highly recommended.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

Since I purchased my five tens, I have ridden alot of miles (including a freaken fantastic ride today and have come to the conclusion no shoe will keep your feet on the pedals all the time or they would not have invented straps... The shoes are just one tool in the overall package needed for a good ride. 
One downside to five tens is about three weeks ago I was doing a pedal wheelie and went over backwards. I thought "no problem, I will just land on my feet". Problem is I was unable to slide my feet off the pedals (because they really do stick to the pedals)
and had to lift them off but by then it way too late. It hurt pretty bad. I still am not recovered totaly from landing on my coccyx. Like them alot though. I may buy something more cool this summer.


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## javelina1 (Mar 10, 2005)

sorry to be a broken record, but I'm also part of the 5/10 amen crowd. The 5/10 low impact just kicks @$$. :thumbsup:


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

5.10s do not feel like a skate shoe with a soft sole.
ive ridden with 5.10 freeriders and both etnies and emerica skate shoes, all on wellgo mg-1s. there is a very noticable difference in grip. with new balance 574s the difference is big. not sure how hiking boots would do, the treads vary from model to model.

at first it may seem hard to adjust your foot but you get used to lifting it slightly to reposition it. you wont even really think about it eventually.


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

Update : I ordered some TIVA links in size 10 which is my exact size and when the shoes arrived I tried to put them on and was like okay, i am a china girl experiencing foot binding for the first time. WTF? loosened them waaaay up but no deal. Sent them back. Anyway, so I decided to while looking at lightweight trail running shoes to give these Saloman Speed Cross 3's a try. Also ordered some Blackspire Sub 4 pedals. the sub 4's weigh 4 grams less per peddle than by CB acid pedals. and the Speed Cross shoes weigh a whopping 140 grams less per shoe than my supposide light weight Lakes with cleat. Just dropped a pound of rotational weight right there. Took the bike for a test ride tonight and all is good. excellent grippage...and if I need to hoof it , these speed crosses have serious knobby tread. Will test in upcoming endurance race for final verdict. : )


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## barrelquest (Apr 2, 2011)

for the record Acid CB -188grams vs Black spire sub 4 184 gram
Lake shoe (330 ? to tired to go look at model see previous post ) 469 grams per shoe with CB cleat
Saloman speed Cross (1 shoe 334 grams)


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## Troutinco (Jan 29, 2012)

Just went from a pair of dedicated Vans to a dedicated pair of 5.10 (impact Low). Pretty happy so far, very very sticky!


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## LucidMTB (Apr 21, 2012)

510 impacts. I purchased a pair about two weeks ago and love them. They have a very stiff sole that really does stick to you pedals. I thought it was all just marketing and hype, but they really stick. I have Kona Wah Wah pedals and it's like I'm glued to the bike. I actually bought them because I wanted something with a stiff sole, so I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of grip.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

So I have been wearing the five ten low for a few hundred miles and love everything about them except on thing. Contrary to what the advertizment says, the tounge is NOT water proof at all. On the contrary the tounge act like a sponge. The moment water gets on it the water is instantly on my toes. Really sucks but I believe you can not beat them for dry weather riding and I do recommend them but not for wet weather.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

KVW said:


> 510s cost too much for basically a skate shoe with an abnormally soft bottom (wooptie doo).


Well, may be wooptie doo to you, but that abnormally soft sole helps a lot with traction.

Too expensive? I paid $85 for mine on closeout and expect them to last me 2-3 years. That's a good investment for something that helps keep my feet glued to my flats.

On top of all that, they're comfortable and have good support (in my opinion).

-Eric


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## Jammy9398 (Oct 29, 2012)

*Shoes*

Has anyone looked at the Nike Airforce 1?? they have a VERY hard underfoot print (Sole) whatever its called but the surface contact does not flex very much...


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

So...hundreds of miles later (again) and I still like them. I looked at the bottom just befor logging on to Mtbr and still no signs of wear. I do hit them with the water hose every now and then. I think if I replace them it will be because I got tired of looking at them and not because they wear out. I dont wear them for anything but riding. This week I am going to spray water proofing on the toungue because it definately is not water proof.


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## ozgti (Mar 3, 2012)

5 10 Free riders. Naf said.


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## haloblue (Aug 22, 2012)

Tried clipped in. Have a good scar from that.

I run a pair of straightlines on my FS & a pair of Crank Brothers 50/50 on my SS rigid.

Warm weather, Keen sandals. Cold, Keen hikers. Both pair have essentially the same tread. Sift enough for the spines to really dig into.

Great shoes overall, especially the toe protection on the sandals.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

haloblue said:


> Tried clipped in. Have a good scar from that.
> 
> I run a pair of straightlines on my FS & a pair of Crank Brothers 50/50 on my SS rigid.
> 
> ...


funny I have the exact same pedals. I like the 5050 better because the amps have a bulge from the axle that is a bit annoying. Im getting used to it, but it has taken several rides.


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## 1000hp (Aug 4, 2012)

I got some dirt-cheap pedals from Wallyworld to replace the clip-in jammys that came with the bike. They stick great with my beater Nike Shox. I think they were $7.95...


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## RobinGB (Oct 23, 2011)

$20 airwalks......

I would love to get into a pair of 510's but i find them kinda heavy and bulky, but maybe in the new year. The reason i keep going back to the old skate shoes is they are flat, light and have a shallow grip pattern. And when it take more then 1 season to destroy them, this pair is going to see its third seconds year of riding.


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## junior1210 (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm on my second pair of 5-10 Sam Hill's. They are heavy and clunky, but incredible support. A set of gel inserts and I can wear them 9 to 10 hours every day, riding and at work. $90 a year for a good pair of shoes is worth it.


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## Gerth (Aug 17, 2013)

Wow! I've read through this whole thread and after wearing the Pinners on a few rides I for one am sold. I used to ride clip less and more often than not I'd crash trying to get my damn foot out of the clips. Let me tell you it no fun face planting on a plank bridge stuck cause your upside down and can't get off the f ing pedals!!! The other reason I went to flats is that when your a 12.5 EEE it's really difficult or damn near impossible to find a clip less shoe that fits well. So one day many moons ago I'm talking to my buddy who's been riding motocross since he was 8 and he remarked how crazy it seemed to him to be anchored to the pedals cause when your in a crash situation why would I want the added worry of trying to get my feet loose. So I switched to flats and never looked back. Besides, how many of us are mountain bike racers? At 45 the only racing I'm interested in is on tv. I'm a recreational rider. I go out one or two days a week and enjoy a ride over single track or more technical stuff and could give a rats ass how fast I can get from point A to point B.


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

Are the Five Ten Spitfires worth looking at? Where I ride from late Spring to Early fall we have a lot of 100deg days. I saw someone mention that Freeriders were too hot.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

Irideon said:


> So I have been wearing the five ten low for a few hundred miles and love everything about them except on thing. Contrary to what the advertizment says, the tounge is NOT water proof at all. On the contrary the tounge act like a sponge. The moment water gets on it the water is instantly on my toes. Really sucks but I believe you can not beat them for dry weather riding and I do recommend them but not for wet weather.


At this point, I have been riding 3-5 days a week for a long time in my five tens for a lot of miles. I would recommend them for wet weather after all. If you live somewhere where the summers are hotter than where I live(sonoma county ca.) they might be hot but they are great shoes if you don't like to be clipped in. You might have to spray water proofing on the tounges though.


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

Irideon said:


> At this point, I have been riding 3-5 days a week for a long time in my five tens for a lot of miles. I would recommend them for wet weather after all. If you live somewhere where the summers are hotter than where I live(sonoma county ca.) they might be hot but they are great shoes if you don't like to be clipped in. You might have to spray water proofing on the tounges though.


Water is not an issue for me.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

I had two flats in one ride and the second one was not repairable so I wound up walking out several miles wearing these shoes. Glad I had them and not shoes with clips.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

I am making one last post regarding these shoes. I have had to hike twice with them, I still love them but there is one problem and one MAJOR problem with them. Make sure you spray water proofing on the tounges before getting them wet. The other real problem is that the soles are coming unglued really bad! Not from wear and tear but from bad glue. As much as I love their performance, I won't be buying anymore ONLY because of that problem. Bummer! Oh well. Time to start researching more shoes.


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## Irideon (Jan 27, 2012)

Irideon said:


> I am making one last post regarding these shoes. I have had to hike twice with them, I still love them but there is one problem and one MAJOR problem with them. Make sure you spray water proofing on the tounges before getting them wet. The other real problem is that the soles are coming unglued really bad! Not from wear and tear but from bad glue. As much as I love their performance, I won't be buying anymore ONLY because of that problem. Bummer! Oh well. Time to start researching more shoes.


HaHa... almost a year later since my last post and I am still wearing them. I glued the soles back on the suckers and kept on riding. Now a seam is tearing. For sure they don't hold together for **** but I am hoping to keep them until December and I will get a different brand.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I love my 510 Free Riders, but if you are looking for a good comprimise with off bike grip and pedal grip, than look at any Trail Running shoe with a stiff shank that runs from heel to the ball of your foot. These do a great job as long as you also look for the flatest typ outsole thread. The other benefits are light weight, cool, and most times water proof. Still 510's are best.


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

Any shoes with a narrow width? 

My running shoes are a 13-B, similarly my road Sidi's are also narrow.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

5.10s are narrow, for me all my shoes are 11 except my 3 pairs of 5.10 all had to be 11.5. otherwise my foot was in a constant stranglehold = pain


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

Burt4x4 said:


> 5.10s are narrow, for me all my shoes are 11 except my 3 pairs of 5.10 all had to be 11.5. otherwise my foot was in a constant stranglehold = pain


I second this. I had to go up a half size on both pairs of mine.

--
Stephen


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