# BEST GPS, at good price, function???



## jeb (Mar 30, 2004)

Hellooo

Totally new to GPS!

I just need when i travel in europe, and go trailbiking in new areas, and sort of backup, 
if one should get a little lost, dont know if it best placed on arm or handlebar, maybe arm..
been looking at the garmin etrex, that can be had here in europe for about 140 doll.
The display, should just be easy to read, with some nice graphic.
Had also looked at the gecko, but dont know really the diff, and the forerunner that seem really nice, but is a bit more doll.

Thanxxxxxxxx Jesper


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Take a look at the Garmin Edge 205 and 305. My LBS just got these in and they look pretty cool. The 305 has options for cadence and heart rate monitor. They are a little pricey, but they take the place of 3 computers.

http://www.garmin.com/products/edge305/

mtnbikej


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

i have the geko3--nice just for as u described--back up so u dont get too lost and to download routes on the computer using topo or some such.


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## MattP. (Oct 3, 2005)

I have a Garmin etrex Legend C. Sadly, I haven't used it yet, becuase I have been investigating what map software to buy. I finally decided on Garmin City Select ($125) and will order it today.


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## Redwoods Mtn Biker (Jul 17, 2005)

You can't load maps to a basic eTrex, you'll need to step up a couple levels for that. Also, be aware that, as MattP notes, detailed maps cost extra, and may not be available for all parts of Europe.

I have reviews of many GPS units posted here, in case that helps.

Rich Owings
www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
www.GPStracklog.com

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey


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## XRAYO (Aug 8, 2005)

mtnbikej said:


> Take a look at the Garmin Edge 205 and 305. My LBS just got these in and they look pretty cool. The 305 has options for cadence and heart rate monitor. They are a little pricey, but they take the place of 3 computers.
> 
> http://www.garmin.com/products/edge305/
> 
> mtnbikej


Here's a great price on the Garmin Edge from an MTBR enthusiast.

*Garmin Edge 305 with various options including heart rate monitor, cadence sender, or both.*

Enjoy!


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

I have the etrex summit and I just got the 305 w/ heart monitor, both are breadcrumb (no maps) gps, the 305 comes with training/map software, for another $75 - $100 you can get the garmin topo (us) which is pretty good, after you make a trail you can upload it to the map and then print if you want to. There is also a couple of topo map programs for the same price . National geographic & maptech are the 2 best in my opinion, I'm sure they have european maps available, the topo maps have some streets and most streams, brooks etc. the 305 is great, small, light , rechargable. the summit is fair to good but the 305 (or 205 if you dont need the heart or cadence) works better in clouds and trees


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## RiderInTraining (Apr 25, 2005)

I just ordered a Garmin eTrex Legend Cx from Amazon for $250 yesterday. I really wanted something with a map. I picked the Cx for it's better GPS chip, the color screen, longer battery life, and the expandable memory (I also ordered 128MB for $15).

In my price range, that was basically the only option (, plus I tried the b/w version of the Legend a couple of years ago and liked it.

What I'm not so sure about is the mapping software. I went with the US Topo map, hopping that it will cover cities well enough and my riding destinations too.

I realize that you are looking for a cheaper GPS, but your wife is going to be pissed anyway, so why not spend a little more and get it all


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## LyncStar (Feb 16, 2006)

RiderInTraining said:


> I picked the Cx for it's better GPS chip


I hate to break it to you, but he eTrex models don't have the new Sirf antenna. I tried one out at a shop and they still have the same old pokey satellite pickup as the older models.


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## Redwoods Mtn Biker (Jul 17, 2005)

LyncStar said:


> I hate to break it to you, but he eTrex models don't have the new Sirf antenna. I tried one out at a shop and they still have the same old pokey satellite pickup as the older models.


Yeah, I didn't have the heart to tell him. At least the antenna (and reception) on his is better than on my 60CS.

Rich Owings
www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
www.GPStracklog.com

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

Redwoods Mtn Biker said:


> Yeah, I didn't have the heart to tell him. At least the antenna (and reception) on his is better than on my 60CS.
> 
> Rich Owings
> www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
> ...


 so basically (ie, assume i am an idiot....which should be easy), which model would give me basically all around capability (load maps etc) and have the sirf antenna or whatever.....the Edge 205? I dont care about heart rate or cadence.

thanks


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Garmin GPS Overview*

Don't know the other brands. See the links from Redwoods Mtn Biker. Here's the units I've generallly seen used for MTB in the Garmin line of GPS:

Definition: "waypoints" are a space point that you give a text label and can often display on a screen or map. "Routes" can be made by navigating between waypoints. A "track" is a recording of where you've been, like a bread crumb trail on the screen.

*Foretrex:* ($140+) Wrist based, no maps on GPS, more for running but used well by bikers for charting ride on PC. It can store up to 10,000 track points (~20 hours of riding). 
*Forerunner:* ($113+) Like Foretrex but more running oriented, no maps. All the Forerunner models can store tracks. [Edit] The new Forerunner models 205 and 305 are effectively wrist mounted versions of the Edge, with the advanced SiRFIII receiver (at the Edge price). 
*Edge:* ($250-$350) More of a road bike odometer replacement. Can't display maps but can store waypoints and tracks of where you went. See my review of it (after reading the online manual) here. It has the new SiRF receiver and can log tracks for Motion Based analysis. 
*eTrex:* ($150-350) Compact full function GPS for the handlebars, can display Garmin's Topo maps, do navigation, store tracks of multiple rides, altimeter, etc.. The Legend is the lowest cost with minimal memory. VistaCx is the best, with nice color display, barometric altimeter, electronic compass, and removable/expandable min-SD memory. 
*GPSMAP60:* ($350-$500) Bigger than eTrex line, but similar. More memory, bigger display, better reception especially with the new "x" version that has the SiRFIII receiver and removable memory.

The Garmin Forerunner 205 & 305, Edge, and those GPSMAP units with an "x" have the advanced SiRFstarIII receiver. My eTrex Vista without this chip rarely looses signal, but it would be nice to have the SiRF III in thick foliage and deep canyons for those rare occurances. But GPS signals can't go through mountains, no matter how good the receiver.

I really like my compact eTrex Vista, that can be had at a lower price. It's lasted for years through many of my bike frame breaks while on mounted the handlebars. But I may go for the deluxe GPSMAP60 CSx on my next upgrade for it's larger SD chip memory (also on the Vista Cx), better reception, and more software features with bigger display.

Even the Foretrex and Forerunner can do great plots of the ride on your computer after you're back home. See here an example of all the great stuff the web-based Motion Based programs can do with the tracks from any of these units that store tracks. Click on Dashboard for data, or Map Player and change the background from Street to Topo to Contour to Satellite....

But for MTB you may want to display maps for navigation into remote parts, which would require an eTrex or GPSMAP unit. It would also require about $90 for Garmin's MapSource Topo software that covers the whole US. The street maps also cost another $90 if you want them too. With 24 MB on my eTrex Vista, I can store all street AND topo maps of the entire SF bay area and surrounding MTB parks. Topo maps are much smaller - if you just store Topos, you may store most all of CA with 24 MB.


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## Redwoods Mtn Biker (Jul 17, 2005)

FoShizzle said:


> so basically (ie, assume i am an idiot....which should be easy), which model would give me basically all around capability (load maps etc) and have the sirf antenna or whatever.....the Edge 205? I dont care about heart rate or cadence.
> 
> thanks


You can't load maps on the Edge or on Foreunners. The lowest cost, SiRF III, map capable unit would be the 
GPSMap 60Cx. The link goes to a review I recently posted.

HTH

Rich Owings
www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
www.GPStracklog.com

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

thanks! 

so if i understand the basic concepts.....the EDGE would be a fine choice if I were only using it for cycling, right? In other words, if I dont care about navigation for the car etc, the EDGE should be more than enough. If I follow...I could still download track to something like geoladders, right?


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## Redwoods Mtn Biker (Jul 17, 2005)

FoShizzle said:


> so if i understand the basic concepts.....the EDGE would be a fine choice if I were only using it for cycling, right? In other words, if I dont care about navigation for the car etc, the EDGE should be more than enough. If I follow...I could still download track to something like geoladders, right?


Yes, the Edge 205 would work fine, and you could download your track. If you want it for that, and for recording your speed, etc., it should be a good choice. If you want to use a GPS for navigation, even if it's just on your bike, there are better choices. If you're into maps, you would probably enjoy a mapping unit. Remeber though, the maps cost extra.

Here is my Edge 205 review.

Rich Owings
www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
www.GPStracklog.com

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Edge is great for road biking, maybe OK for MTB*



FoShizzle said:


> thanks!
> 
> so if i understand the basic concepts.....the EDGE would be a fine choice if I were only using it for cycling, right? In other words, if I dont care about navigation for the car etc, the EDGE should be more than enough. If I follow...I could still download track to something like geoladders, right?


Yes, the Edge can record tracks that can be downloaded to many web based programs such as Motion Based, or geoladders or many others you can find from Redwood Mtn Biker's links and books.

The map display on a GPS is especially usefull for rides into new areas on your own. The topo maps are for navigating on the trail, the street maps for navigating on the road. If you know your trails well and/or have good paper maps, you may not need the topo navigation. The street navigation is great for finding the trail head on new rides, which usually involve some remote roads that are tough to find. The street maps also come with Points of Interest, that allow you to find the closest ATM, gas, mexican food, fast food, walmart, bike shop,... - like a yahoo yellow pages in your hand, sorted by those closest to you. This is the nicest single feature of the street maps. I flip from stored street to topo maps via a menu option.

However, the Edge is about the same price as the eTrex line that has many more features, such as mapping. And the Edge is:
1. Only B&W versus color
2. Less battery life (<12 hours, depending on battery age and if you just charged it before the ride). No trail-side AA replacement is possible - you'll likley loose data on long epics. 
3. Much less software capability and smaller screen

The only major advantage I see in the Edge over the eTrex line is the smaller size and lower weight. The improved reception is not that big a deal unless you live in a very thick forest or in deep canyons. For SoCal, like NorCal, you probably don't need the SiRFIII. The Edge "Virtual Partner" function (race against a virtual competitor, including yourself on a previous ride) looks like fun for training too.

[Edit: using Redwood Mtn Biker's link on his web site, I find some reviews on Amazon.com complain about the lack of map capability on the Edge GPS to tell you where you are. *Be warned, the Edge is NOT a mapping unit and cannot tell you where you are (AKA "navigate"). *
The reviews also say it's hard to combine and edit tracks with the web based software, or view more than two tracks at a time. Track editing is easy with Garmin's MapSource software - either Topo or Street will do fine. I can view all my rides and manipulate the display quickly on the same Garmin MapSource map on my PC's high resolution screen.]


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## RiderInTraining (Apr 25, 2005)

Redwoods Mtn Biker said:


> Yeah, I didn't have the heart to tell him.


I'm glad you guys told me about my mistake. This way I only look like an idiot on this forum 



Redwoods Mtn Bikder said:


> At least the antenna (and reception) on his is better than on my 60CS.


That's was probalby what I read and misunderstood. Again, thanks for telling me and not letting me die ignorant. I'm always amazed about the amount of knowledge one can find here in the forums, no matter the topic (I'm just thinking about the @ss shaving thread ).


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

Thanks Larry and Redwoods! You guys have been great.


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## pacman (Jan 16, 2004)

For the clumsy ones - the GPSmap 76CSx floats!

BTW, In a canyon with lots of oak trees my 76CSx had 8 satellites solid, my friend with Etrex couldn't get 3.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*If you want to go into the wilderness ...*



jeb said:


> Hellooo
> 
> Totally new to GPS!
> 
> ...


If you want to go trekking in wilderness areas, I would recommend something from Magellan. If you are looking for something REALLY useful while biking, I would recommend the Garmin Edge 305. It's a full fledged cyclo-computer with GPS functionality and PC connection for automatic ride logging.

The Edge 305 also has a barometric altimeter which should help it's accuracy while tracking elevation changes (you need 4+ satellite reception for this with GPS).


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## hardtail05 (Oct 11, 2005)

One more item of interest- The Garmin Topo software's most recent downloadable update is compatible with Google Earth. You can export tracks to display in Google Earth now !!


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## RiderInTraining (Apr 25, 2005)

Another question... can anone recommend a website where I can download waypoints for trails in Moab?


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## Redwoods Mtn Biker (Jul 17, 2005)

RiderInTraining said:


> Another question... can anone recommend a website where I can download waypoints for trails in Moab?


Here is a post I did about online sources of waypoints and tracks. You might also try asking in some Utah forums. Here is another but they seem to be down at the moment.

Rich Owings
www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com
www.GPStracklog.com

"We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books." - Edward Abbey


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## slcmtb (Oct 24, 2005)

www.utahmountainbiking.com waypoints for some of the trails.


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## Blitz (Oct 27, 2005)

I have a forerunner 305 (basically same software as edge 305). There are mapping/nav capabilities but these are BASIC. I would NEVER rely soley on the mapping if I were trekking around europe. I find it only usable when I have a map or a general idea of where I'm going and use the nav feature to "alarm" and let me know a turn is coming up. However, if I was in a strange place and went out for dinner and drinks, I think it would be reliable enough to get me back to a single point.

However, that being said, for logging training time, the forerunner with Sport Tracks cannot be beat. The tracking feature of the forerunner keeps speed/HR/Grade/interval data very nicely and Sport Tracks is ideal for tracking all training, daily weights, etc. It's integrated with google maps in a google earth type interface with Topo, satellite, or street detail. 

-just my .02
b


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

Blitz said:


> I have a forerunner 305 (basically same software as edge 305). There are mapping/nav capabilities but these are BASIC. I would NEVER rely soley on the mapping if I were trekking around europe. I find it only usable when I have a map or a general idea of where I'm going and use the nav feature to "alarm" and let me know a turn is coming up. However, if I was in a strange place and went out for dinner and drinks, I think it would be reliable enough to get me back to a single point.
> 
> However, that being said, for logging training time, the forerunner with Sport Tracks cannot be beat. The tracking feature of the forerunner keeps speed/HR/Grade/interval data very nicely and Sport Tracks is ideal for tracking all training, daily weights, etc. It's integrated with google maps in a google earth type interface with Topo, satellite, or street detail.
> 
> ...


yeah the edge 305 is great for training and/or bike computer. if you have the hr monitor you can upload you route and see where you were on the trail when your heart was at any range. the speed and distance seem to be right on the money , I kept checking against my computer and they both matched allways.
ultimately, its a trainer/ bike comp. with gps tracking but no mapping internally. I've since returned mine and ordered the garmin gpsmap 60csx, it has sd card memory, color maps and the sirf antanae setup and if you look around its only $50 more than the edge 305


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

I found the best of both worlds. An Edge 305 and a 60CSx with a handlebar mount...


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## LyncStar (Feb 16, 2006)

GEOMAN said:


> I found the best of both worlds. An Edge 305 and a 60CSx with a handlebar mount...


Where's your laptop???


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

LOL!

If there were a way, I'd probably have it with me. Thankfully not yet, though.

I have to admit that it's kinda fun having both GPS's along sometimes. Have you ever done geopics or tagged digital photos where you create a photo journal using your GPS?


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

As an update, I frequently suffer "battery bounce" on the 60CSx after rough trail descents. It can be fairly frustrating. This is something no road rider or hiker has to consider. 

For those wondering, "battery bounce" turns off the unit when contact with the battery is interrupted because of bumps or jars. If you are aware, it's not a big problem.

The Edge 305, on the other hand, has never failed me.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*60CSx Battery Bounce*



GEOMAN said:


> As an update, I frequently suffer "battery bounce" on the 60CSx after rough trail descents. It can be fairly frustrating. This is something no road rider or hiker has to consider.
> 
> For those wondering, "battery bounce" turns off the unit when contact with the battery is interrupted because of bumps or jars. If you are aware, it's not a big problem.
> 
> The Edge 305, on the other hand, has never failed me.


I don't get battery bounce with my 60CSx, but I don't use it on the handlebars because of the survivability issues. See Dan'ger's problems with it on the mount here (read down a bit). I carry the 60CSx in the camelbak for recording tracks, and use the eTrex Vista on the handlebars. (Yep, I carry two of them like Geoman.)

If you don't want mapping, the Edge offers much better reception. If you need mapping for navigating new places, the eTrex VistaCx will last much better on the bars. (see discussion here.) That's what Dan'ger went to. The reception of the eTrex Vista is a lot better than you'd think. I rarely loose signal, except on the north side of steep hills with thick trees. I never loose signal with the 60CSx.

There's been a lot of discussions (and my talks with Garmin techs) that say battery bounce can be solved by use of well sized batteries (PowerEx, Sony, .. rechargeable or name brand alkaline), putting some paper in the case above the batteries to hold them tight, and some flexible soft foam behind the contacts for more pressure. I fortunately never needed to try these.


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## Nathan Cloud (Jul 18, 2005)

Check out Garmin's Rino 110. Gets great reception, has pc connectivity, lots of features, and you can easily pick one up on ebay for $90. Downside is its menu system is a bit funky, but for money its nice unit. 

I have also been intrigued with Magellans Explorist 210 - seems like a ton of bang for very little buck! Never used one though....


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