# (Sugino) Tioga Tension Disc Thread



## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Yeah, yeah....time for another 'official' thread.
Post any pictures you have of your Tioga or Sugino Tension Disc's (or T-discs in action).

Any info that anyone can provide on these guys, feel free to edjubicate me!

I know the older versions are 36h...the 'Pros' are lighter weight and 32h...but beyond that, all I know is that I like them.

I'll post all the pics of Tension Discs I've found along the way...the first three being mine.

A very early 'prototype' Sugino T-disc, brand new, unbuilt with box, wheelbag and a titanium bolt kit....don't ask how I found it. It was a miracle.

























My brand new unbuilt T-disc Pro with wheel bag as well...









My built T-disc Pro. Mavic 231 rim, Shimano XTR hub:









An orig. 36h T-disc that I just sold. It was roped.









A super rare front T-disc (as owned by J. Tomac)









And a long list of misc. t-discs....


































































































Whew....


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## cdeger (Jan 18, 2004)

*Disc-a-gogo*

Eric,

not all Pro models are created equal as the one I could sell fits to 36 hole rims and hubs.

Even the man himself counted on more than 32 spokes, as I could prove back in the old days, when I had this bike for a few weeks


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

AFAIK, newer "radial" clear disk drive pros were 32o. non radial pros & older standard blue disks were 36o. tomacs mechanic used to number the wheel after every race & bin them when they got to 20 races 

the strongest disk drive was the version they never made. Alu sheet in place like the older disk drive (blue version & slightly more rock resistant) & radial. yes radial, the alu inserts in the disk used to rub through the cord on the opposite side of the disk!. This problem didnt occur with the radial ones!

strong is obviously a loose term when discussing disk drives 

ta

scant


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*What was the purpose of these???*

Sure they look neat but that is about all they do for me. Just out of curiosity I bought a used Tioga Pro model about 5 yrs ago. It was heavy, flexy, and noisy...not really what I look for in a high dollar wheel. I ended up just throwing it away as it only cost me $50.

The Sugino road model made a bit more sence as it was lighter and more affordable than the average disc wheel of its day.....but the ride was nothing compared to even my low end Campagnolo Khamsin rear disc.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Sure they look neat but that is about all they do for me. Just out of curiosity I bought a used Tioga Pro model about 5 yrs ago. It was heavy, flexy, and noisy...not really what I look for in a high dollar wheel. I ended up just throwing it away as it only cost me $50.
> 
> The Sugino road model made a bit more sence as it was lighter and more affordable than the average disc wheel of its day.....but the ride was nothing compared to even my low end Campagnolo Khamsin rear disc.


The Pro model is not heavy by any means. Especially for those days. I dont remember the weight but I compared it to an old XT II hub with butted 14/15 spokes anda Vantage Comp rim and it was less than 2 oz heavier. So, just slightly heavier than a pretty light wheel from the same era.

Mine is not flexy at all. I think there must be a few "hammered" old disks around that people are experiencing this with.

They were also supposed to be softer vertically. I could hardly feel any difference. But this was only on one ride. I will have to spend more time on it to get a good feel for its compliance. This was touted as a big benefit for the wheel. Of course they are also much more aero. But of course youd have to be going fast for this to come into play. Tomac didnt have a problem with that.

Most consumers didnt see it as something beneficial. The only ones I saw back in the day really were on Pros bikes.

Regarding the noise, I could hardly even hear mine while riding. There were a few times I could hear it when riding near a cliff where it would bounce off I guess. Definitely a let down. I used to love hearing that sound.


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

*T-Discs rocked the house in a different time and place . . .*



Shayne said:


> Sure they look neat but that is about all they do for me. Just out of curiosity I bought a used Tioga Pro model about 5 yrs ago. It was heavy, flexy, and noisy...not really what I look for in a high dollar wheel. I ended up just throwing it away as it only cost me $50.
> 
> The Sugino road model made a bit more sence as it was lighter and more affordable than the average disc wheel of its day.....but the ride was nothing compared to even my low end Campagnolo Khamsin rear disc.


By today's wheel standards it may be tough to say a T-Disc is a "great" wheel, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. It was a very different time back in the day.

On the performance side, I believe their were two big benefits to the old T-discs.

A more compliant/shock dampeing wheel is the first argument in their favor. It's worth noting that these wheels were first launched back in the day when full suspension bikes weren't a reality in any workable/lightweight form. So wheel compliance was an interesting concept.

The second performance gain was aerodynamics. T-discs are definately way more aero than a spoked wheel. These wheels were very prominently used by many of the top downhill racers of the day and much of the big research dollars were thrown at winning the biggest spectacle of the year - the Kamakaze Downhill at Mammouth. This is the race where bike team sponsors got the most magazine coverage, TV coverage, and fans watching.

If you've ever watched a downhill race, courses are 5-10 minutes long but winning times are often seperated by only seconds. Mammouth was also a very long "pedaler's course" with many high speed straight-aways (higher speeds is where you get the most benefit from aerodynamics) so lower wind resistance helped combat rider fatigue by allowing higher speeds enabling less of a need for constant pedaling. In this senario a aero wheel like the T-disc makes perfect sense over a spoked wheel when winning and loosing is a matter of seconds.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

mtnwing said:


> By today's wheel standards it may be tough to say a T-Disc is a "great" wheel, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. It was a very different time back in the day.


I wouldnt really say wheel standards have changed. Rims are heavier now if anything and hubs are lighter but spoke technology hasnt changed and that's all the tension disc really was was a spoke replacement. So if you built one up with todays parts it would still be about 60g heavier (to quote the above post) than a conventional wheel.

And as far as the compliance goes I would say that if felt more like loss of pedal energy than suspension.

As I said they look neat and are obviously somewhat aerodynamic but I wouldn't ride one anymore.


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## Phat_Head (Jan 12, 2004)

you could always tell tomac was coming. they sure did make a distinct sound as tomac would fly on by.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> They were also supposed to be softer vertically. I could hardly feel any difference. But this was only on one ride. I will have to spend more time on it to get a good feel for its compliance. This was touted as a big benefit for the wheel. Of course they are also much more aero. But of course youd have to be going fast for this to come into play. Tomac didnt have a problem with that.
> 
> Regarding the noise, I could hardly even hear mine while riding. There were a few times I could hear it when riding near a cliff where it would bounce off I guess. Definitely a let down. I used to love hearing that sound.


Definitely not as rigid at a 'traditional wheel'. I think it feels a bit like a tire low on air. Let the bike 'drift' into a corner. It takes some getting used to but it's just like any other wheel...only cooler.

As for the noise, I was hoping for more too. Not as loud when you're on the bike (unless next to a wall or something for it to echo off of). It makes you feel fast though.

Tell you what Dave, I'll ride mine, you ride yours and we'll have 2x the T-disc sound on the trails. You show me a wooded trail and they'll howl through the forest.
I've got a few short video clips of the Tension disc in action and the sound is definitely there! I'll make sure to get more video clips of our outting (when ever that happens!).


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Well, when I rode my tension disc I was coming off atleast 9-10 rides on my mud bike which happens to be a 5" travel FS bike, so, it was tough to get a good feel for exactly how compliant the disc was. Id have to get a few more rides in on it to get rid of my FS handling/mannerisms that Im used to presently. 

For me, it felt very responsive pedaling wise, again, I was coming off a 33 pound bike, so it wouldnt be hard for a 22lb hardtail to feel peppy. I dont think Ned or Tomac would have used these in XC racing if they sucked up power.........It did feel fast on the 25-30mph section of road on the way home. I didnt notice any lateral flex at all, very stiff. I asked Tomac also before I got it if they were flexy and he said no. So, maybe some of you guys are riding discs that have improper tension. I dont know. Tomac did say they were softer vertically. I couldnt really feel much if any, but like I said, I was used to a very plush bike when I took it out so it felt pretty skittery overall comparitively..........It takes me a few rides to get fully accustomed to a different bike.


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

Given the option today. Most pros WOULDNT use them for XC racing. compared to a set of eg sapim spokes, they waay heavier & long term structurally was always going to be questioned.
I used a disk for a little under a year. I know all the traits as well. Over time disks did develop more flex (which is why Tomes disks were numbered & binned after 20races!)

I miss the cool noise as well. They werent that great to ride with tho.

ta

scant


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*These would be found sooner or later....*

Not mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3667130359

and not mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3665532758


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

scant said:


> Given the option today. Most pros WOULDNT use them for XC racing. compared to a set of eg sapim spokes, they waay heavier & long term structurally was always going to be questioned.
> I used a disk for a little under a year. I know all the traits as well. Over time disks did develop more flex (which is why Tomes disks were numbered & binned after 20races!)
> 
> I miss the cool noise as well. They werent that great to ride with tho.
> ...


True, but that also depends on how big that offer was from Tioga or Sugino to use it! On a fast XC course I can see it helping. One with lots of slow climbs and slow technical descents, maybe not so great.

True, wheels are light now, most of the loss is in the hubs, some in the spokes, and the new 350 (claimed) gram rims from Stan and AM Classic set a new standard. How they hold up is yet to be seen.......


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*Hubs for T-Discs?*

Will any hub work for Tension Discs?
My running disc has an (M950?) XTR hub, 9spd XTR cassette with no problems...
But would a Ringle or Chris King hub work as well?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> For me, it felt very responsive pedaling wise, again, I was coming off a 33 pound bike, so it wouldnt be hard for a 22lb hardtail to feel peppy. I dont think Ned or Tomac would have used these in XC racing if they sucked up power.........It did feel fast on the 25-30mph section of road on the way home. I didnt notice any lateral flex at all, very stiff. I asked Tomac also before I got it if they were flexy and he said no. So, maybe some of you guys are riding discs that have improper tension. I dont know. Tomac did say they were softer vertically. I couldnt really feel much if any, but like I said, I was used to a very plush bike when I took it out so it felt pretty skittery overall comparitively..........It takes me a few rides to get fully accustomed to a different bike.


I put in my first ride on the 'newer' of my Tension Discs. It's basically a zero mile T-disc...or at least under 2 hrs. of ride time. It has stayed true thus far. 35mph and smaller jumps were not an issue. I tried to stay light over the rough(er) sections of trail.
No side to side flex that I could tell. Esp. compaired to the 'ropey' high milage T-disc I had. Couldn't hear it on the open trail, and hardly knew it was there if not for the funky shadow it was casting.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> I put in my first ride on the 'newer' of my Tension Discs. It's basically a zero mile T-disc...or at least under 2 hrs. of ride time. It has stayed true thus far. 35mph and smaller jumps were not an issue. I tried to stay light over the rough(er) sections of trail.
> No side to side flex that I could tell. Esp. compaired to the 'ropey' high milage T-disc I had. Couldn't hear it on the open trail, and hardly knew it was there if not for the funky shadow it was casting.


Nice bike! Riding it on Saturday?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> Nice bike! Riding it on Saturday?


Why yes, yes I am!

Is it wrong to say that I hate getting dirt on it? It's just so clean...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Im by no means a disc expert but I would guess that the hub would have to have the same size flange and spoke hole measurements. There are official names for those measurements but I cant remember them right now.... Not 100% sure though.


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

Mine has been sitting in the corner for a few years now, need to true it up and take it out for a ride again. They did soften the ride a fair amount, it was noticable on those superstiff early aluminium frames of the early 90's. The sound they made while JRA was pretty sweet too.


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

i did make a few coverings of my own but this is one tesion disc i owned.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

What a great shot! It looks like youre carrying some good speed! Where is that?


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> What a great shot! It looks like youre carrying some good speed! Where is that?


Moab dh in '95 all i hade was a HT and 1'' of lateral suspention the disc gave. lol


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

bcd said:


> Moab dh in '95 all i hade was a HT and 1'' of lateral suspention the disc gave. lol


So how long till' the disc imploded...
Did you get your 50 +/- hours out of it?


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> So how long till' the disc imploded...
> Did you get your 50 +/- hours out of it?


yeah i never had one fail . i wasted a lot or rims in it though.

once i went to a rhino lite it was fine. i did punch some holes
it it skiding into corners that had rocks and stick.


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

*BCD disc*



bcd said:


> i did make a few coverings of my own . .. .
> .


Any pics of the bcd disc? love to see them!

-mtnwing
http://www.carbonbicycles.com


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

mtnwing said:


> Any pics of the bcd disc? love to see them!
> 
> -mtnwing
> https://www.carbonbicycles.com












same cool sound but it was a tentioned renforced cover attatched to the spokes of a normal wheel.


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

in answer to the above question.
in my experience, disk drives used to fit:
old xt, old XTR, old hugi, old suntour & apparently ringle supa 8. tho Im not to sure about the ringle.

ta

scant


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## sarratogagap (May 19, 2004)

*Does anyone happen to have a TDD manual?*

Does anyone have to manual in PDF format, or maybe a link to a page that describes building one of these up that they could send me? I'll even pay you to photocopy and mail me one!

I have a 36-hole DD Pro, and it's very flexy; unridably so. I think the tension's just low, but don't know how tight I'm supposed to go. How do you tell?

Any help/info is greatl appreciated!


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

sarratogagap said:


> Does anyone have to manual in PDF format, or maybe a link to a page that describes building one of these up that they could send me? I'll even pay you to photocopy and mail me one!
> 
> I have a 36-hole DD Pro, and it's very flexy; unridably so. I think the tension's just low, but don't know how tight I'm supposed to go. How do you tell?
> 
> Any help/info is greatl appreciated!


I've got one along with some tips on building that I recently recieved from another owner. Email me and I'll send you a scan PDF. I'll try and scan tonight.

-mtnwing
carbonbikes(at)mountainbikes(dot)net


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Tioga/Sugino tension disc wheel on Ebay*

Ror anyone interested there's one for sale on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36143&item=3678280308&rd=1


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## NoWay Ray (Mar 19, 2004)

*Snapped Kevlar thread*

I was working on mine last night to get it ridable again and one of the kevlar cord sections snapped, so now it can't be trued correctly. I've had it some 12 years now, so I think I got my money's worth. Instead of throwing it out, I'm planning to remove one sheet, probably the non-drive side and the hub, and turning it into a clock. I'll post some pics once it's done. I was hoping to hear that rumbling sound one last time though.


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## vdubbusrider (Jul 28, 2004)

i just bought one recently and i cant wait to ride it. i remember back in the day you would get a racer come up behind you with a tension disc on a hugi hub and with all that noise it would scare me right off the trail sometimes.


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

I have a 36H hugi that used to have a disk drive pro wrapped around it. I'm vaguely looking for a disk drive (not a broken 1!) to wrap around it again. they're making massive $$ these days tho


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

quick, some1 buy them all off steelman before eric snaps them up ;D

bummer you dont have a 36H mtb 1 for sale ;(

;D

ta

scant


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

vdubbusrider said:


> i just bought one recently and i cant wait to ride it. i remember back in the day you would get a racer come up behind you with a tension disc on a hugi hub and with all that noise it would scare me right off the trail sometimes.


Where'd you get it from and what version is it?

They do make for a fun trail conversation piece.


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## 2ManyPlaces (Nov 4, 2004)

*Article: (1990) Tioga disc wheel (part 1)..*



sarratogagap said:


> Does anyone have to manual in PDF format, or maybe a link to a page that describes building one of these up that they could send me? I'll even pay you to photocopy and mail me one!
> 
> I have a 36-hole DD Pro, and it's very flexy; unridably so. I think the tension's just low, but don't know how tight I'm supposed to go. How do you tell?
> 
> Any help/info is greatl appreciated!


 from MBAction June 1990 issue..


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## 2ManyPlaces (Nov 4, 2004)

*part 2 (last)..*

fini...


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## 2ManyPlaces (Nov 4, 2004)

*Now for a little JT....*

trivia.. I think you folks will get a REAL kick out of this 2-page article....


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## 2ManyPlaces (Nov 4, 2004)

*sorry, but I couldn't....*

resist posting a larger pic.....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Thats a great little story on his early years. You oughta post that on the Tomac pic thread.


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## chruby99 (Dec 11, 2004)

*Disk Drive.*

I just bought a 99 Indy Deluxe this morning and I was doing some research. I came across this picture on www.ifriders.com Made me think of Rumpfy. Personally I think that it is an ugly bike but to each his own. A nice Ti Fat in the background to. Belongs to some guy in Bedfordshire, UK Must not be finished or that is one trick Headset.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

chruby99 said:


> I just bought a 99 Indy Deluxe this morning and I was doing some research. I came across this picture on www.ifriders.com Made me think of Rumpfy. Personally I think that it is an ugly bike but to each his own. A nice Ti Fat in the background to. Belongs to some guy in Bedfordshire, UK Must not be finished or that is one trick Headset.


Yeeeah, that one is missing some key parts.

Is that a bike show or a swap meet?

Man, you brought back to life one ooooold post. 

Might as well add to it.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

One disk on the JTR, the other is autographed by JT himself.



















700cc T-disk


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Interesting thread, I put one of those 700c sugino road disc's on my 1972 Bridgestone Diamond to see how it rode.
What I remember the most about riding it was the noise!
Always thought it would be cool to try one on a Mtn. bike.

<img src=http://my.raex.com/~deoreo/sugino.jpg>


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## geoffss (Mar 23, 2004)

*roadie!*

Rumpfy,

Now you HAVE to get a road bike. Otherwise I am taking those Sugino discs for my bike.

:thumbsup:


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## quasimoto73 (Aug 27, 2005)

Hello, I've got a question about the mounting of these things. I've searched the forums and found bunches of usefull info on the tioga disks but I've got a set and they are missing the mounting hardware to attach the disks to the rims. Any suggestions on what will work the best or should I pay a visit to my local hardware store and start looking for compatable allen bolts? Thanks for any help you can send my way.


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## Liberace (Jul 27, 2004)

*PM me I've got 2 sets*

new in bags.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

geoffss said:


> Rumpfy,
> 
> Now you HAVE to get a road bike. Otherwise I am taking those Sugino discs for my bike.
> 
> :thumbsup:


The closest you'd get out of me is if it could be made to work on a CX bike.


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## sallen (Dec 8, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> The closest you'd get out of me is if it could be made to work on a CX bike.


CX is for roadies in the winter... eric, you are coming to the dark side. we're waiting for you in full spandex.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

sallen said:


> CX is for roadies in the winter... eric, you are coming to the dark side. we're waiting for you in full spandex.


Like hell I am! :madmax:


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## Dirtyfaces (Aug 24, 2007)

*Disk Brake Disk Drive*

Great Forum
I have been making tension sheets since my original disk drive wore out. This is a homemade tension sheet mounted to a disk brake hub. I had to modify the hub flanges to make this work, but it works.








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Here are a few older attempts that did not work out nearly as well.







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This one looks good but only lasted about 25 miles. I ended up riding home on half a wheel.







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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

wooah! how did you do that? :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Wow! 

Very cool.

I'm curious though...any issues running a disc brake on a disk wheel?

I heard from somewhere along the way that someone had tried retrofitting an original Tioga T-disk to a modern disc hub only to have it rip apart under heaving braking.

Any issues with yours?


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## Dirtyfaces (Aug 24, 2007)

*Lesson learnt*

No problems with the disk break yet. However, the cord pattern needs to be adjusted to compensate for the added torque. I have run into other problems. To make the hub flanges fit this hub I had to grind down their overall height. Then I needed to punch a few extra holes in the 28h hub to allow the 36h style flange to mount. Shaving about a millimeter off the centerlock adapter was also necessary to mount the flange.

Additional stuff: The winding style that I used is not as good as the standard Tioga style. It turns out that the bands that connect the rim holes to one another are very important. On a traditional wheel, the spokes are supporting the hub from above and below. On the DD the hub is hanging from the cords above it. If you press down hard, you can see the cords on the bottom bow outward as their tension is relived. The set of cords that run from rim hole to rim hole make the lower part of the wheel more solid.

Here is a link to the actual patent that the Sugino engineers used when they brought the DD to America.


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## caminoloco (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi guys,

I've located a new but already in-wheel disk drive at a bike shop, it's the clear, radially woven Tioga pro version.
The shop has a new one for road bikes as well, the blue interwoven version.

Both come with a normal front wheel - everything unused and built in or from 1990 parts.

They're asking 1000,- $ for the 26" and about 800,- $ for the 28" road set.

Is this reasonable, what's the going price ? I can't find any references...

Thanks


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Sounds reasonable to me.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

caminoloco said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've located a new but already in-wheel disk drive at a bike shop, it's the clear, radially woven Tioga pro version.
> The shop has a new one for road bikes as well, the blue interwoven version.
> ...


$1000 USD, built with new hub and rim plus a front wheel....Still sounds a bit high but I suppose it would depend on what hubs and rims were used.

A full set up like that on the open market could reach that number I think....you're not getting hosed, but you're not getting the deal of the century either.

High market IMO.


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## caminoloco (Jan 13, 2008)

The road set is made of Shimano Dura Ace hubs (1990) and Araya CTL385 rims (1990)

The bike set is made of a Shimano XT 732 rear hub (7 speed) and a Tioga front hub with straight spokes. Araya RM400Pro rims.

Anyone interested in the road set ? We might get a better deal if we take both of them


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## Arran (Jan 27, 2006)

I got this (and a NOS M231 HA rim) for a poofteenth of that! Muhahahahahahahhahaaaaa!


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## caminoloco (Jan 13, 2008)

Arran said:


> I got this (and a NOS M231 HA rim) for a poofteenth of that! Muhahahahahahahhahaaaaa!


Great for you... and come to think of it, your luck isn't over yet ! Sell me that disk for double what you paid for it.

That would make your investment really worth the while (if you use it, it'll break anyway and all that loose change would be lost  ), and I get me a cheap disk.

Hey, you can even keep the rim  !


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## steelhead (Jul 8, 2004)

I got three 700c sets laying around. I'd have to dig them out. All of them still in the box with all the stuff that's needed. I believe one Tioga and two Sugino's (or the other way around). I wanted to use at least one of them but never got around to it. If any one is interested let me know!!


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

steelhead said:


> I got three 700c sets laying around. I'd have to dig them out. All of them still in the box with all the stuff that's needed. I believe one Tioga and two Sugino's (or the other way around). I wanted to use at least one of them but never got around to it. If any one is interested let me know!!


ooooowh sick 29er wheels set!

what color clear radials?

how much pm me.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Arran said:


> I got this (and a NOS M231 HA rim) for a poofteenth of that! Muhahahahahahahhahaaaaa!


Oooo, the last I need to complete my series! :eekster:


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## Ingmar Nopens (Mar 17, 2006)

BAMMM! ... got one too ...










... afer 1/2 year of waiting


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## Vitorzip (May 25, 2007)

Me too... ahaha ! Ok, it´s not the first, but it´s NOS...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Vitorzip said:


> Me too... ahaha ! Ok, it´s not the first, but it´s NOS...


Oooh! I need a NOS 'blue' disk for my collection too. Lucky!

(Vitor, I just replied to your email too...sorry! )


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## davev (Oct 16, 2008)

*DIY Tension Disc Question*



Dirtyfaces said:


> Great Forum
> I have been making tension sheets since my original disk drive wore out. This is a homemade tension sheet mounted to a disk brake hub. I had to modify the hub flanges to make this work, but it works.


I am interested in also making my own tension disc. I have a few questions:

1: Where do you get the kevlar from?
2: Where do you get the hardware that connects to the rim?
3: What is the process of building the wheel? (how do you tension it properly?)
4: How did you do the plastic covering for the kevlar?

I would love to build on the knowledge you gained from your experiments


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## Dirtyfaces (Aug 24, 2007)

*The how to*

I am glad that you liked the wheel. I started by buying the hardware for an actual Tioga disk drive on EBay for about $25 dollars. I was able to get a 1/16"+ thick gauge non braded Kevlar here http://www.apogeerockets.com/shock_cord.asp , it's sold by the foot. The plastic laminate came from a print shop, they will have rolls of the stuff wide enough to cover each side without a seam.
To build each side you will need to have the hardware before you start. Buy a sheet of compressed particle board and a 1/4" thick dowel rod. Make a precisely measured peg board leaving a couple millimeters for stretch. This is obviously the hardest part and has to be done just right. The only aspect of this that works in your favor is that the left and right sheets are the same size, so you can use the same peg board again. 
Start by laying a circle of laminant on the peg board. Then lace the wheel, locking the ends of the cord with a clamp. Next, lay another sheet of laminant on top. Lastly set your Iron's temperature to 5 of 7 and give the laminant a quick once over to stick it together. Take the sheet off of the peg board and finish the job by placing a stack of towels under the sheet. The finished sheet will be completely clear, and you will be able to cut it to look anyway you like.
Afterward you can build the wheel like any other.


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## davev (Oct 16, 2008)

*Kevlar thread*

In the link from your post to the kevlar, they sell 1/16 braided. I found this unbraided stuff:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/kevlar49.php
Do you think this will work? is there a reason unbraided is better?

On another note: So you make the whole thing on the jig with the pegs, then the lamination is what holds everything together and in the right place when you take it off the jig? Could I make a wheel without the lamination by using resin?

do you use the same diameter pegs for the rim side and the hub side?

Thanks for the help!


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## ShamusWave (Dec 15, 2007)

Is it possible to get Tioga Disc Drive -decals from somewhere?
For the blue disc.

Also is there anything how you can now how tight kevlar should be?


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## breogan (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi dirtyfaces, amazing job, congratulations!!
Could you please post a picture of the hardwork job with the peg board, I am confused and would like to follow your example.
Greetings
Pd: Sorry for my English


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## breogan (Jan 18, 2006)

Amazing job, congratulations!!
Could you please post a picture of the hardwork job with the peg board, I am confused and would like to follow your example.
Greetings
Pd: Sorry for my English..


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## Dirtyfaces (Aug 24, 2007)

*update*

The picture attached is the only one that I could find that showed any part of the pegboard. You also get a good view of the unfinished disk.

To answer the braided Kevlar question; I felt that the braided form would stretch too much ultimately causing my tension bolts to run out of adjustment. In addition, the original DD uses straight gauge unbraided Kevlar and I figured they had done their research. If you have the option, get the thickest possible up to 1/8". 1/16" is not ideal.


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## breogan (Jan 18, 2006)

Thank you!
I have already purchased a broken one in ebay, I will post my updates.

Regards1


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Just curious, how hard would it be to recreate the hardware and just make one from scratch?


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## steelhead (Jul 8, 2004)

If been thinking the same thing. I have several complete sets in the box but don´t want to cannibalize them for this project. I have found a kevlar jarn supplier. He only need to know how much I need. How much would you need ofr a 29r rear wheel????


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## davev (Oct 16, 2008)

ShamusWave said:


> Also is there anything how you can now how tight kevlar should be?


I am building a used one I found onto a different rim and am trying to figure this out as well. Does anyone have any advice?


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

I have a feeling Jun 13, 2009 is going to be a great day for Tioga Sugino Disc fans ;-)


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

illnacord said:


> I have a feeling Jun 13, 2009 is going to be a great day for Tioga Sugino Disc fans ;-)


how so?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

illnacord said:


> I have a feeling Jun 13, 2009 is going to be a great day for Tioga Sugino Disc fans ;-)


Talk!


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## Vitorzip (May 25, 2007)

You don´t just drop a bomb and run away. Come on, spit it out!


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

OK it's June 15th 2009. What's the news?

I did notice the Focus team running "Tension Discs" under the "Lightweight" brand at the recent Giro. This brand is owned by Derby Cycles so it's clearly a repackaging of the old Tioga technology with some updates

http://www.bikeworldnews.com/index.php/2009/06/03/bikes-giro-ditalia/


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mtnwing said:


> OK it's June 15th 2009. What's the news?
> 
> I did notice the Focus team running "Tension Discs" under the "Lightweight" brand at the recent Giro. This brand is owned by Derby Cycles so it's clearly a repackaging of the old Tioga technology with some updates
> 
> http://www.bikeworldnews.com/index.php/2009/06/03/bikes-giro-ditalia/


2 days late on Sugino Tension Discs? You're slippin' Tuck!

Got a bike box for you. Still need to give you a call about the JPU.


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## mrkawasaki (Aug 2, 2006)

What is the diference between a Sugino disc and a Tioga disc? Are they made in the same factory and if so, which brand can be considered to be the originator of the MTB disc wheel?

Mr K


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

To follow up with my post last April, "I have a feeling Jun 13, 2009 is going to be a great day for Tioga Sugino Disc fans ;-)" 

The date is significant because the patent rights are over. Meaning anyone can copy and release this wheel to the public.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

mrkawasaki said:


> What is the diference between a Sugino disc and a Tioga disc? Are they made in the same factory and if so, which brand can be considered to be the originator of the MTB disc wheel?
> 
> Mr K


All were made in the same place by Sugino. Tioga just put their name on them.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

mtnwing said:


> OK it's June 15th 2009. What's the news?
> 
> I did notice the Focus team running "Tension Discs" under the "Lightweight" brand at the recent Giro. This brand is owned by Derby Cycles so it's clearly a repackaging of the old Tioga technology with some updates
> 
> http://www.bikeworldnews.com/index.php/2009/06/03/bikes-giro-ditalia/


I'm not so sure about this. The Lightweight Disc debuted at the end of 1980s, if I'm right. Focus is owned by Derby Cycle, but "Lightweight" has nothing to do with them. They just outfit the team....


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## mrkawasaki (Aug 2, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> All were made in the same place by Sugino. Tioga just put their name on them.


Thanks Eric - what were the years of production do we think?

Mr K


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## ShamusWave (Dec 15, 2007)

huelse said:


> I'm not so sure about this. The Lightweight Disc debuted at the end of 1980s, if I'm right. Focus is owned by Derby Cycle, but "Lightweight" has nothing to do with them. They just outfit the team....


[sorry off topic, road related!]


Lightweight is owned and produced in Germany, a company called Carbonsports.
https://www.carbonsports.de

First came road wheels and that disc came much later.

They are invented around 1994 and used first time 1996 Tour De France.
Johan Museuuw won WC on road also 1996.

Many pro road rider has used Lightweight -wheels and they all needed to buy them also.
There was no sponsorship deals at all. Only past few years they have sponsored couple riders and teams.

Also these guys did bought them, thats why there is no decals on rims...


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)

ShamusWave said:


> [sorry off topic, road related!]
> 
> 
> Lightweight is owned and produced in Germany, a company called Carbonsports.
> ...


Yes, off topic, sorry...
I do have a copy of a German Magazine from 1991, beside the "Lightweight" wheels the road tension disc is pictured there, it's called "Ultec" and is distributed by the German tuning company "Heylight". Later the patent went to Lightweight (Obermayer&Dierl), and later again, to CarbonSports. I'm also realatively sure, that the Ultec disc was used at the end of 1980s as ultra-highend triathlon equipement. No pro use on the road at that time....


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## Pedalpedalpedal (Nov 17, 2006)

I have both versions of the Tioga Tension disk (32 and 36 hole).

Anyone intersteted?


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## breogan (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi, you have a PM.


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## thinkcooper (Mar 21, 2006)

Sorry about all the cheesy copy I wrote for this ad...

The story was true though, one day to prep the wheels. While office cleaning back in the pre-eBay 90's I threw out three tension discs. :madman:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

thinkcooper said:


> Sorry about all the cheesy copy I wrote for this ad...
> 
> The story was true though, one day to prep the wheels. While office cleaning back in the pre-eBay 90's I threw out three tension discs. :madman:


Fail. 

I wish I could use mine more.


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## tripod0502 (Mar 2, 2010)

*I want one!*

I am looking to buy either a kit or complete wheel...please contact me if interested!


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## 88StangGT (Jun 27, 2007)

I have a complete road wheel. Its a barely used Sugino Tension Disc wheel. It is on a Mavic rim (650w) and has a Dura Ace hub and gear cluster. It has a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular tire on it. It has become unglued from the rim in a couple of spots. It was only used in about 3 races and has been on display in my garage for a long time. I' not sure what to ask for it, but I do have some bills I need to pay.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

88StangGT said:


> I have a complete road wheel. Its a barely used Sugino Tension Disc wheel. It is on a Mavic rim (650w) and has a Dura Ace hub and gear cluster. It has a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular tire on it. It has become unglued from the rim in a couple of spots. It was only used in about 3 races and has been on display in my garage for a long time. I' not sure what to ask for it, but I do have some bills I need to pay.


This isn't a classifieds.


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## 88StangGT (Jun 27, 2007)

I know, I was just sharing the wheel for the thread. Just figured I would say if anyone is interested in it let me know.


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## Retro Dude (Jun 7, 2010)

Anyone have any experience fixing delamination of the cover on these? I've got a small area that's starting to seperate, wheel still works fine but would like to fix properly.

Thanks for any info.


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## kolt (May 5, 2007)

Just got mine, some well-aged Tioga Disk.
The kevlar string seems not so fresh anymore, is there any chance to replace it? Or would that mean I would have to destroy the lamination?
Thanks for any help!


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

no way to replace the kevlar strings short of buying another. Part of the twisted beauty and mystic of this product is the fact it's an expensive and disposable luxury that only the elite ran; not unlike the cost of servicing a Ferrari, its a known cost of having the best.

enjoy it!


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## bamalucky2 (Nov 30, 2011)

*How do you clean an old disc drive?*

Does anyone know a good way to clean out grease and grime from these things? I left a wheel in the closet and forgot about it for about 20 years. Apparently bleach is very bad for kevlar (at least kevlar body armor).... I was thinking of using degreasers, but I don't know if that will affect either the kevlar or the plastic sheeting.

As you can see from the picture, there was quite a bit of grease when i threw the whole wheel back in the bag.

Has anyone dismantled one of these wheels? I wanted to clean out the insides of the grime, then rebuild the wheel with new graphics, stickers, etc.. and hang it on the wall.

thanks in advance!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Can't see it mattering too much on the blue disk since you can't see inside it anyway.

I have a feeling once you take it apart and rebuild, it'll never be ridable again...but if you're just going to hang it, I suppose that won't matter either.

Why don't you build up one of the T-Disk Pros sittin' there and send me that blue one.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Don't mess with what's not broke!

I have a confession: I used to laugh at them and then I heard one....:blush::yesnod:


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## bamalucky2 (Nov 30, 2011)

to be honest, i'm too scared to ride it now. It is 20 years old, after all - (and I am no longer 18, and thus have better developed prefrontal cortex, lol). Hence it's going on the wall. The other wheels I also completely forgot about, i was planning on building my dream wheels back then, but i ran out of money for parts. It's funny how time flies when you are really busy....


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

So you forgot you had two NOS T-Discs in your closet? Can I do some rummaging in there?


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Retro Dude said:


> Anyone have any experience fixing delamination of the cover on these? I've got a small area that's starting to seperate, wheel still works fine but would like to fix properly.
> 
> Thanks for any info.


Anyone come up with a solution?


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## norsk biker (Jul 20, 2011)

Help! Looking for tech. data on the TiogaTension Disk Pro, mainly pertaining to the hub and rim compatabuility. I have always wanted to mount one to a nice loud hub. I have one in mind just need to know if it will fit. need to know before I buy. Anybody with an old PDF hiding in there computer??????


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)




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## Pedalpedalpedal (Nov 17, 2006)

Never seen that happen before.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Easier to service the hub now.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Great thread to revive! But for such a sad reason.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Imagine that.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

I cant complain - that wheel served me well on a number of bikes for a long time. 

Thankfully it let go while I was standing on the pedals going up a hill rather than blasting down one.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Might as well update the thread.

My blue T-Disk nearing the end of it's life span.


















From my personal collection.

Early NOS Sugino 36h cross laced.



























and a late model NOS Tioga T-Disk Pro, 32h radial laced and a NOS T-Disk Comp 36h cross laced with improved valve access.




























And as found on the net...

Possibly worlds only front Tension Disk:









Arty:









And from Supercomponent on Tumblr:


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Seems you have had your hands wrapped around lots of discs of various sizes and colors, some soft and floppy, others tensioned and stiff. 
You truly are a Disc-man.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Not trying to be a jerk but I'll ask the question anyway. 

Why? Weight? That's the only benefit I can see if it is one.

And of course the god awful yet memorable thunder they make?


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Not even sure they were lighter than a well built spoked wheel. 

Sound - definitely

Maybe a little bit of suspension. 

Certainly seemed to absorb shock in a manner similar to that of certain frame materials. Some transmit every bump and rut, some seem to dampen it a bit better. 
Disc wheels helped absorb some of the shock. 

Or maybe it was and still is all in my head.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

That makes sense. How many manufacturers? 2?


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## DFA (Jan 26, 2004)

Hmmmmm. Offered a mint Phoenix (EFC? why?). War Chest (PP account) has cobwebs. What can I move......


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Close up of exploded disc in post 109 above:


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Tsk...tsk... Can't have anything nice.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

chefmiguel said:


> Tsk...tsk... Can't have anything nice.


Some tinsel off the Christmas tree and a little Elmer's glue and we'll be set!

Actually in the midst of using the rim and hardware to build up another, nearly worn-out blue disc. Probably won't last long but I like 'em.


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## markschuler (Mar 25, 2008)

I raced on a disk on my Yeti ARC in '92. I have a chance to acquire one for my Yeti Ultimate. Any thoughts from those of you that have owned one recently. I NEVER had an issue with mine back in the day. 200+ rides and 20+ races. Bike was stolen and i never had another. Are they hard to build?


Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

markschuler said:


> I raced on a disk on my Yeti ARC in '92. I have a chance to acquire one for my Yeti Ultimate. Any thoughts from those of you that have owned one recently. I NEVER had an issue with mine back in the day. 200+ rides and 20+ races. Bike was stolen and i never had another. Are they hard to build?
> 
> Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk


I use them all of the time.

You have to accept that it won't last as long as a spoked wheel and it's a heartbreak when it fails since you can't simply "replace a few spokes".

A bit tedious and don't forget the Loctite on the hub screws/nuts but straightforward overall. You'll have to re-tension and re-true it after the first ride or two but afterwards it should be good for quite a while.

Nuthin like the rumble of a T-disc going down the trail.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I ran a Tioga Tension disc on my single speed back in 2002-2006. I had my built up using a Sram SL90 hub which had removable 6 bolt disc mounts. I then used a single spped adaptor on the cassette. I loved that wheel on that bike.


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