# Handlebar Width



## ScottS (Feb 21, 2004)

Hello, I'm trying to overcome my wife's habit of locking her elbows when doing easy rides. Is this a symptom of having a handlebar that's too wide?

She's "average" sized at 5'6" and the bike has a 600mm handlebar. I just picked up a Ritchey Pro 560mm to see if that might make a difference in possibly matching up with her shoulders better.

Any thoughts?

Edit: I even found a picture of her doing it on a rail trail:


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't think it is because the bars are too wide. You want some width for leverage. I run really wide bars on my SS and never feel the need to lock my elbows. It's either just her riding style, or perhaps a different bike fit issue (not the bars in particular). She does look very upright. Maybe you should try a stem with more rise and see if that helps her to relax the elbows.

edit: and perhaps a slightly shorter stem as well.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

I used to run very narrow handlebars, then I got into singlespeeding and dig on wide bars for the leverage (usually about 25" wide).

It seems more like a novice quirk than a handlebar quirk, but switching handlebars won't hurt. Plus, most novices are clueless about questions like "Is your handlebar too wide?". How would they know if they've never tried anything different. At the very least she will gain a bit of perspective, even if she chooses to go back to the wider bar.

Novices have a habit of feeling safer using unsafe techniques and feeling in danger when doing safe techniques. Nearly every novice I see feels uncomfortable, and consequently unsafe, standing or getting off the back of their bikes. I cringe when I see them going down rooty decents.

As they get more comfortable on their bikes, the proper techniques will also begin to feel more comfortable.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

catzilla said:


> Novices have a habit of feeling safer using unsafe techniques and feeling in danger when doing safe techniques. Nearly every novice I see feels uncomfortable, and consequently unsafe, standing or getting off the back of their bikes. I cringe when I see them going down rooty decents.
> 
> As they get more comfortable on their bikes, the proper techniques will also begin to feel more comfortable.


you hit the nail on the head.

I see this too ALL THE TIME. and i'm fixing to start seeing it all over again with our summer women's ride program about to start.

It is really hard to convince someone who is a little scared that they would really be better off not touching the saddle. They want their butt GLUED to that sadlle at ALL time and to be able to touch the ground too. I sometimes, after a little warm up riding, go to an easy trail usually one with a mostly slight down hill, and do a drill where I ask all the riders to do the entire trail with out sitting. This one specific trail has also very twisty so they get a good short lesson in body movement to control the bike.

sorry, I went off on a tagent, back to the arms...

I also advise new riders to allow their joints to be the shock absorbers. Let your knees, hips, elbows and shoulders bend and move to take the shock of the bumps. Otherwise all that force just goes up your spine which is bad for your back.


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Probably just habit*

It's probably just a habit, and is what feels most comfortable to her. If she only does it on the easy trails, then I don't know that there is really much harm in it, as long as she flexes her arms when riding the more challenging trails. If she is getting neck or shoulder pain, then that would be a good reason to not lock her arms on any trail.

Spike



ScottS said:


> Hello, I'm trying to overcome my wife's habit of locking her elbows when doing easy rides. Is this a symptom of having a handlebar that's too wide?
> 
> She's "average" sized at 5'6" and the bike has a 600mm handlebar. I just picked up a Ritchey Pro 560mm to see if that might make a difference in possibly matching up with her shoulders better.
> 
> ...


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## ScottS (Feb 21, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> I She does look very upright. Maybe you should try a stem with more rise and see if that helps her to relax the elbows.
> 
> edit: and perhaps a slightly shorter stem as well.


Thanks for all the input, a lot of it sounds very familiar....

The stem, if I recall is just 100mm, and it's very upright as it came with a lower end ($400) mountain bike. When we bought this bike, she was too tall for the small, so we ended up with a 17" mens. Now she has the seat all the way forward, and still doesn't think it's enough sometimes. I honestly think she'd call herself happy with the bike when she got to the point she was riding at a 90 degree angle, sitting straight up with handlebars that wrapped back to her.

She doesn't like to be stretched out, and I have a hard time convincing her to hang off the back of the seat when going downhill. She's certainly one to "glue" herself to the seat in about every situation.

Thanks for the input so far. It is appreciated. I'm not exactly an expert, so I'm very thankful.


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## nyquil (Feb 25, 2004)

*From experience.....*

...I used to ride really stiff in my upper body and lock out my elbows, especially while descending!! Before I switched to a bike with a shorter top tube, I used a shorter stem and a riser, and also positioned my saddle more forward. That gave me more confidence on the downhills, to throw my weight back and keep my elbows bent without sacrificing control of my bars.

A good bike fit really boosts a 'woman's' beginners confidence and makes the riding experience that much better!

I admit to 'cry rides' in the beginning...but, a passion for mountain biking over the last 6 years has made me a better rider, put a dent in my wallet, and turned our basement into a mecca of bikes and parts!!


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## little b (Jan 7, 2004)

women's bike clinics? in austin? will you need more instructors? i used to teach clinics in seattle, and miss it. i'd love to help once i get there.

no new comments from me about her locked elbows. everyone has already said everything.


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

I didn't know until recently that on a road bike (and MB) you should be able to support most if not all of your weight in the riding position but without holding the handlebars. So, I think arm locking, including bike fit, has a lot to do with core or mid-driff body strength. If her lower back and ab muscles were in good shape (looking like they're in shape and being in shape sometimes aren't the same) then she would rely less on holding her upper body up with her arms. (Gosh that has to hurt her elbows locking them on a trail.) 

I also found recently that my handle bar position is about 4 cm too low on my road bike which is fairly common since women tend to have longer legs than torso than male geometry. When I start to wear out on long rides, my arms get straighter. See if getting her a bike with a taller head tube will help with her position. Width of the bars doesn't seem to make as much of a difference as distance from the saddle and varience between saddle height and bar height. The bars 3-4cm lower than the saddle is what I've been told is a low aggressive position.


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## catbarf (Apr 21, 2004)

SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed said:


> I didn't know until recently that on a road bike (and MB) you should be able to support most if not all of your weight in the riding position but without holding the handlebars. So, I think arm locking, including bike fit, has a lot to do with core or mid-driff body strength. If her lower back and ab muscles were in good shape (looking like they're in shape and being in shape sometimes aren't the same) then she would rely less on holding her upper body up with her arms. .


The original poster's wife's problem is that her seats' too far forward. So she has to support her upper body weight on her arms. The seat needs to go back so that, at a minimum, she's in the knee over pedal spindle postion. Then when she bends forward at the waist to reach the bars her CG will be over the BB instead of in front of it. When the seat is too far forwards and the rider's CG is forward of the BB she has to support her weight on her hands. This usually leads to riders moving their seat farther forward to redure the reach to the bars which just makes the problem worse.

I just went through this with my wife's road biking position. She found a different saddle that fits her better (Terry saddle was too wide, preventing her from moving back far enough) and I set her up so she's slightly behind KOPS. She came back from a long ride raving about the position and finally feeling balanced on the bike and comfortable riding on the drops.


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## girlywhirly (Apr 4, 2004)

*I'm looking for women's mtb clinic in Austin...*

Can you point me in the right direction???

Thanks. :}


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## ScottS (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks catbarf. I can easily see that being the issue, especially when I think of how I ride. I've got a Titec Hellbent post on an XL Sugar frame, and I certainly don't rely on my arms much and with that setup, you have to know my CG is way back. 

We'll do some experimenting to see what she thinks. We've been on our roadies all spring. Much appreciated everyone!


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## surfkayakers (Sep 3, 2003)

*handlebar width*

hi, i'll add to this since i just spent endless 'fun' hours on my handlebar setup. 600=23.62. That is not wide at all, especially for someone 5'7".

lots of handlebar/stem/cockpit factors influence body position. How much rear sweep does her handlebar have? Remember, women have shorter torsos, so it could be that she has insufficient sweep to bend her elbows.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

girlywhirly said:


> Can you point me in the right direction???
> 
> Thanks. :}


RATS!!! We are really behind this year and don't have ou flyers out yet and the first ride is June 7th.

Ride Like A Girl is a multi level womens mountain bike ride. Ride Like a Girl meets every Monday night from June through September at 6pm at different local trails. This year we have 4 weekend rides planned also.

It's basically a huge girl group ride which breaks into lots of smaller groups for the actual ride. Every thing from "first time on dirt" to expert racers show up. The more experience riders lead groups and give advise and teach skills.

Look for a flyer in all the local shops by next week. I think they are printed and this week I need to visit all the shops to deliver the flyers and pick up the swag.

I'll see of I can post the flyer.

ok I managed to post the flyer that has the info, dates, and locations. I don't think the links work yet.

click HERE


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## alizhan (May 6, 2004)

I know I'm way late to this thread, but I'll kick in my two cents anyway.

I saw mention of changing bar width, stem geometry, saddle position and size, and even top tube length, but not of bar sweep. To me, it looks like she's kicking the heels of her hands out over the bar, which promotes locking the elbows (I used to do this, because my hands hit a "normal" bar in a painful way). If you try a bar with a larger sweep angle (say 11 or even 15 degrees), she might be more comfortable with a neutral grip.

In any case, try to find a bike shop with some "beater" equipment you can borrow or rent, and try a whole bunch of things. All the suggestions here are good; the only way to know which one is "right" for your wife is to try them.


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