# 32 vs. 36 spokes



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

How much would I be giving up going 32 spokes rather than 36 spokes?

I want to do a wheel set using 36 spoke Kris Holm rims and Hope Pro II hubs but the rims I can only find one place (unicycle.com) and they are out of stock and the Hopes are out of stock as well at Chain Reaction and refuse to pay US prices for the hubs. However, both rims and hubs are in stock in the 32H version. Should I be patient and hope the items are back in stock within the next couple weeks or will I be okay going with the 32 spoke versions? 300 pounds XC rider, no jumps or drops or DH stuff.


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

I think Jobst Brandt covers this to some extent in his book. Sheldon Brown seems to view the 36h superior though.

Personally I haven't seen the south side of 200lb since high school. I have built over 100 wheels for friends, customers, dh racers, and myself. The only time I personally run into problems with 32h is when the rim is light-duty. So long as you are using a strong rim there is no consequence of the lesser spoke count IME 

My DH wheelset is 36h, but all my other sets are 32h...


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

The Kris Holm rim is so stout, I have a really difficult time seeing any reason to need 36 spokes on it. 32 DT Comps or Wheelsmith DB14 spokes should be more than plenty.


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

*with stout rims, 32h is fine*

I built a set of 29er 32h Gordos on DT 240s hubs using DT Champ 14ga spokes. I'm 6'1" and 300 Lbs. I don't expect to have any problems with these.

If I were using lighter rims, I would definitely go with 36h to make up for the lack of strength (stoutness?) in the rim.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

it's a judgement call ,do you value the extra strength and or reliability,or the bit of lightness,neither is a huge factor but physics insists that the 4 missing or extra spokes do something.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

At this point weight is a none issue. Everything I have bought for this build so far as been burly (heavy) and I am going with a steel frame so weight does not matter right now. Maybe in 75 pounds I will consider putting my bikes on a diet...lol

Good to hear that the 32H rims should be fine. I don't plan to beat them that hard but they will get worked out. I have emails in to the places that carry the components I want to see if I can get a time line on when the 36H stuff might be back in stock. Prices being equal I would go 36H over 32H just for piece of mind but I think for my application 32's should be fine. I think that I might even build the wheels myself. Maybe not true/tension them but lace them and get them trued by a local wheel builder. Then again, maybe I will try to go all the way with them too. I have lots of reading to do on the subject so we'll see what happens.

That brings up another question...what are a couple sources for spokes? I have look around some but really didn't find anything?


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## tedsalt (Sep 17, 2008)

Nubster said:


> I think that I might even build the wheels myself. Maybe not true/tension them but lace them and get them trued by a local wheel builder. Then again, maybe I will try to go all the way with them too.
> 
> That brings up another question...what are a couple sources for spokes? I have look around some but really didn't find anything?


I talked to my LBS, and managed to talk their main wheel builder into giving me wheel building lessons at the shop. I built one set of wheels there (Salsa Semis laced to DT 240s), and built the other set at home (Gordos laced to DT 240s) and then had them checked by my mentor. The stouter the rim, the easier they are to build (especially the trueing, etc).

I bought spokes at universalcycles.com. Make sure you have good measurements for your hubs and rims, and use several spoke calculators. I learned the hard way! :madman: I ended up using three spoke calculation tools. Round down. You don't want spokes that are too long.

Straight gauge spokes and brass nipples are easier to build with ...


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

Nubster said:


> That brings up another question...what are a couple sources for spokes? I have look around some but really didn't find anything?


danscomp.com (cheapest source for st. ga. spokes on the net AFAIK, not bad on butted either)
Universal, already mentioned, but they are great to work with. The will set you up and can even spoke prep them if you ask. 
Competitive Cyclist is also decent to work with


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

This one is easy.

The 32 hole KH rim, isn't very good, the 36 hole is one of the best out there.

Go for the 36 hole FREERIDE rim (not XC) it is lighter, stronger and looks awesome.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I used aluminium nipples (less weight) and DB spokes (stronger and lighter).

Hope pro2 front, some generic rear hub.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

36 hole also allows you to do a 4x pattern,


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## djr8505 (Apr 23, 2008)

I usually have a 32 spoke up front and a 36 in back. I am 240+ and that combo seems to work fine. If I were using a lighter weight XC oriented rim it would have to be 36 all around.

Don


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

mtnbiker72 said:


> The Kris Holm rim is so stout, I have a really difficult time seeing any reason to need 36 spokes on it. 32 DT Comps or Wheelsmith DB14 spokes should be more than plenty.


Such a rediculous thing to worry about, not the 32 vs 36 spoke issue, but the issue of just a few grams for a heavier rider.

I mean, I just ate 400g of chocolate biscuits. You think I need worry about some 28g on the wheel spokes? And no, don't give me that crud about rotating weight being oh so (not really within reason) important.... I could save more than 28g on shrewd tube n tyre selection...

the difference in weight, same spokes, between 32 and 36 spokes is some 28g. Same difference actually going from 32 straight guage to 32 double butted spokes, again about 25g or so.

Given the choice, as a heavier rider, I'd go for 36 double butted, purely because that weighs the same as 32 straight guage, and because it is my understanding the higher spoke density allws for easier truing and slightly more strength.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

What 9speed said is 100% spot on, especially about the choccie biscuits (cookies for those yanks that need a translation).


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## djr8505 (Apr 23, 2008)

Cookies are good! I would choose a 36 pack of cookies over a 32 pack any day!

Don


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

i would choose 36DD over 32A...

But I'd go 32D over a 36B.....:thumbsup:


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## SlipperyPete (Apr 20, 2006)

CaveGiant said:


> What 9speed said is 100% spot on, especially about the choccie biscuits (cookies for those yanks that need a translation).


Thanks for the clarification. I was worried that everyone in the UK ate dog biscuits. Although, that would be better for your teeth than sugary cookies.

Oh no he didn't! Oh yes he did!


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

in the uk cookies are biscuits that have chocolate chips

i went 32 spoke hope hoops.. but only cos 36 wasn't an option for factory built wheels...


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## ianick (Jul 10, 2006)

I had this same dilemma at the end of last year. 36 hole stuff was on backorder and 32 hole stuff was in stock. I decided to wait for the 36 hole stuff. Now that I have the wheels I am very glad I chose to wait. The extra strength gives me peace of mind. That peace of mind and confidence it gives me is worth the wait. If you set out to get 36 hole setup, then wait and get a 36 hole setup.

My 2 cents anyways.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

In my experience, 32 spoke wheels are fine off-road. I've had no problems with different 32 hole wheelsets. I only put 36 hole wheels on my road bikes as they take a lot more abuse.


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## GpzGuy (Aug 11, 2008)

Right now I'm rolling on a set of hand laced Salsa Semi 29er rims with DT double butted spokes and XT hubs, 36 spokes of course, laced in a 4X pattern. I've put these wheels through tremendous punishment both on and off the road since I got them last summer, and they are still perfectly true. I'd say if you're a clydesdale like me, its worth it going with 36 spokes.


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## one piece crank (Sep 29, 2008)

I always like the saying, "if your front wheel has the same spoke count as the rear, then either the front (wheel) is stronger than it needs to be, or the rear (wheel) is weaker than it should be". If you're really hard/abusive on wheels, this is a good strategy. If, on the other hand, you are a smooth, fluid rider, I think a properly built 32h rear is adequate.

Tom P.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

one piece crank said:


> I always like the saying, "if your front wheel has the same spoke count as the rear, then either the front (wheel) is stronger than it needs to be, or the rear (wheel) is weaker than it should be". If you're really hard/abusive on wheels, this is a good strategy. If, on the other hand, you are a smooth, fluid rider, I think a properly built 32h rear is adequate.
> 
> Tom P.


That's a Sheldon saying aint it? I personally dont dig that saying at all. 4 spokes is only 25g. Naff all.

Given the option I'd go 36. However I run 32 cos it was the only option for the wheels I bought...


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## klydesdale (Feb 6, 2005)

one piece crank said:


> I always like the saying, "if your front wheel has the same spoke count as the rear, then either the front (wheel) is stronger than it needs to be, or the rear (wheel) is weaker than it should be". If you're really hard/abusive on wheels, this is a good strategy. If, on the other hand, you are a smooth, fluid rider, I think a properly built 32h rear is adequate.


Old roadie wisdom like that does not apply to front wheels used with disc brakes on a MTB ridden by a Clydesdale.


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## one piece crank (Sep 29, 2008)

klydesdale said:


> Old roadie wisdom like that does not apply to front wheels used with disc brakes on a MTB ridden by a Clydesdale.


I couldn't disagree more!

Rim technology and hub/flange design has com a long way since those "old roadie" days, even without going way up the food chain. For clydesdale duty, a properly built 32h, disc front wheel is more than up to the task.

I think this is one application where 32-front/36-rear IS the perfect solution.

Tom P.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

and yet it is only 4 spokes... 25g....

and most of us could lose 2 or 3kg of fat.......

given the option, i'd go 36... you lose 25g off the tyres soon enough just by riding a few miles....


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

I am going to throw a little wrench on the wheel. Bontrager has been using 28h rims with dt-comp style spokes for years. recently, as of 2009-ish they switched from 3x to 2x lacing. I have two wheels that are Bontrager RACE 29er. one is 3x the other is 2x. for the life of me when riding I cannot tell the differance between the two. I weigh 220lbs.


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## one piece crank (Sep 29, 2008)

9speed said:


> and yet it is only 4 spokes... 25g....


I'd be the last guy to actually choose components based on weight, so don't look at it from that perspective. I'm simply saying very few will ever come close to overloading a well-built 32h front wheel. So why not take advantage of the hubs or rims that don't come in 36h?

Tom P.


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## New Light (May 4, 2010)

my specialized 29er HT came with 28h front and 32h rear...both slightly untrue after just a few rides(I do ride it hard though)...anyways I can tell you my next wheelset will def. be 36h. Even when I rode my bmx(20") i rode 36h front and when i could find it 48h rear...


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## sir_crackien (Feb 3, 2008)

32 hole 14/15g. never had a problem. I am 260 and 6'5" and rider pretty hard. techy AM


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