# Mind over body, changing what can be changed, excepting what can’t...



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

As I age, I find myself reflecting on my choices, past, present, future.

I have access to more or less the same broad experiences as the average American in their mid fifties. With the advent of the internet, the human experience has broadened in a sense, though reading about experiences is not quite the same as living them; neither is better, it’s just different.

Like many older folks, I worry about the younger generations, how they’ll manage what we leave behind, not unlike the previous generations worried about us. It’s hard not to see this world as a half empty glass, especially as we find that out lives are winding down.

What needs changing, what can we change, what is “worth” changing, all worthwhile questions.

Over the years I have tried to balance physical and mental improvements in myself, reading, writing, studying; admittedly the ratio of improvement has swung from more physical change in my youth to more mental change in my older years.

What I once thought impossible, like learning to accept what I can’t change, developing compassion for things I don’t approve of, and making choices that I’m reluctant to make, all these things are part of my mental change.

I’m reminded of this when working with teens and young adults; people who are still in the early part of the learning curve, processing decision making and ways to better manage choices. Most young people don’t recognize their potential to choose, they often say things like “ I can’t”, “it’s not my fault”, or they blame others for their choices. In time and with experience, they’ll learn what we already know.

This forum is for us, the over the hill gang, the ones who walked the walk, who’ve seen that and done that. We are no longer the future, so what does it mean to be on the downslope? Can we be more and do more than simply fight the physical changes in our bodies, what’s left for us to change?

... and please pardon spelling and grammar errors, I’m posting from phone, which is hard to see cuz I need reading glasses, but I hate to wear them 🙄


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## A/C in Az (Jan 14, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Most young people don't recognize their potential to choose, they often say things like " I can't", "it's not my fault", or they blame others for their choices. In time and with experience, they'll learn what we already know.


The part is red is worse with the 2 most recent generations than it ever has been in history. As a result, the majority of them in the US will never live up to their potential. There is no desire on their part to be accountable. This is clear from the recent education loan problems. They signed a contract, borrowed money, and now don't want to pay it back. The previous age group did the same with their mortgages 13 years ago. They signed a loan, bought a house, then decided to walk away because the house value plummeted. None of those loan contracts had provisions to walk away if something bad happened, but millions of people think the world owes them and they don't need to honor their word.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Nice post! Thanks for sharing. I, too, work with teens and have older children of my own.

It's getting harder not to lose sleep over issues they need to be prepared to manage, let alone just carrying about the general anxieties of trying to be a good parent and father.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'll admit it, I've always been a do gooder/save the world kind of person, so it hurts me to see where we are going.

I hate to be cynical, but damn it's getting hard not to become that guy: "Hey you kids ..."

So my kids have become me, I have become my parents, damn it!



Crankout said:


> Nice post! Thanks for sharing. I, too, work with teens and have older children of my own.
> 
> It's getting harder not to lose sleep over issues they need to be prepared to manage, let alone just carrying about the general anxieties of trying to be a good parent and father.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

My job has been to raise 3 kids so that they can make good decisions. I succeeded. There's more I've done of course, but this is a bit like a bucket list. If you've waited till now (I know you haven't, just using the generic "you") it's way too late. It's their world now, or close to it.


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## Retire (Jan 11, 2020)

Yeah, it’s funny in an ironic way. When you are young it seems you do not think about the long term future much, or the end. 

As we become eligible for the 50+ forum; thoughts do turn to the future, as we can see the close of “our” generations time and influence. But concerns for the next generation are real as well. I find myself thinking about the future beyond my time.

I liked your last sentence MSU. “It’s their world now or close to it.”


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'll admit it, I've always been a do gooder/save the world kind of person, so it hurts me to see where we are going.
> 
> I hate to be cynical, but damn it's getting hard not to become that guy: "Hey you kids ..."
> 
> So my kids have become me, I have become my parents, damn it!


I try not to be that guy ('kids these days'), but I get it!

Our parents felt the same way when they were our age I'm assuming. Back then, it was probably nuclear proliferation that kept them up at night. And that damned MTV nonsense!!!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MSU Alum said:


> My job has been to raise 3 kids so that they can make good decisions. I succeeded. There's more I've done of course, but this is a bit like a bucket list. If you've waited till now (I know you haven't, just using the generic "you") it's way too late. It's their world now, or close to it.


I have faith that the current younger crop will rise to the occasion and take care of stuff. We seemed to make it through ok; they will too.


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

I preach to my kids ad nauseum that they are a result of the choices they make. My 26 year old is starting to get it, My 17 year old.....not so much. He doesn't have time or it's someone elses fault, etc.... Hopefully he figures it out. It's not for lack of me trying.


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## Retire (Jan 11, 2020)

If only I had listened to some of the great advice that was given to me when I was young. I see now that those sages knew what they were talking about. And that they actually cared!

I remember ‘Drop Drills’ in school!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

SoDakSooner said:


> I preach to my kids ad nauseum that they are a result of the choices they make. My 26 year old is starting to get it, My 17 year old.....not so much. He doesn't have time or it's someone elses fault, etc.... Hopefully he figures it out. It's not for lack of me trying.


My 17 y.o. is about the same. They come around as you know with your older one.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

The practice of dumping on the next generation for being lazy, undisciplined, and generally not as awesome as we think we were at that age has been going on for a long time.

There are ancient Egyptian texts that read like the OP.

If it were true, civilization would have collapsed millennia ago.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Good thread, Ben. Anything that encourages reflection is a good thread! :thumbsup:


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## emejay (Feb 28, 2007)

A/C in Az said:


> The part is red is worse with the 2 most recent generations than it ever has been in history. As a result, the majority of them in the US will never live up to their potential. There is no desire on their part to be accountable. This is clear from the recent education loan problems. They signed a contract, borrowed money, and now don't want to pay it back. The previous age group did the same with their mortgages 13 years ago. They signed a loan, bought a house, then decided to walk away because the house value plummeted. None of those loan contracts had provisions to walk away if something bad happened, but millions of people think the world owes them and they don't need to honor their word.


...this is a very salient observation. I must add that BOTH situations have been funded by easy money whereby the borrower expected a great return, which when not realized, they bailed out and don't want to pay back what they borrowed.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Civilizations have collapsed since the height of the Egyptian empire and many before. The post on predatory lending is a very simpleton take. Trajectory is just that and ours seems pretty obvious. There is no human that has ever existed who wouldn't have benefitted from hind sight. I reckon consequences and cause/effect are difficult things to teach. One thing is for sure, the sooner you learn it the better your future will be. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, but no.

The question is not whether we think they're as good or better than us, but whether we're "improving" as a society.

How do we gauge improvement?
Is it educational?
Is it health?
Is it longevity?
Is it equality?
Something else?

Some people would argue that we are past our pinnacle as a society.



WHALENARD said:


> Civilizations have collapsed since the height of the Egyptian empire and many before. The post on predatory lending is a very simpleton take. Trajectory is just that and ours seems pretty obvious. There is no human that has ever existed who wouldn't have benefitted from hind sight. I reckon consequences and cause/effect are difficult things to teach. One thing is for sure, the sooner you learn it the better your future will be.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Technology continues to improve, but so far, the only way we as a species advance is on a one to one basis stemming from a consistent daily spiritual practice. 
Now, with the advent in technology of AI, I don't know if that is going to improve us as individuals, or not. I suspect not.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

This is a pic of me and Mr John Boyd who is a veteran on one of my units. Mr Boyd was born on January 26, 1913... he turned 107. He is the 4th oldest man in Canada. There about 40 women on that list who are older  I've attached a link to an article about his life (written a couple years ago) and a sample of his recent artwork. More fascinating information and the secrets to his longevity.

https://sunnybrook.ca/media/item.as...hjDrXnZ17uyXbQf4A2Nxvn5LQ6JRXgLaa1pERNZ6mYWP0



> When asked what keeps him young, John shared his secret to a long life. "Always have friends a generation or two younger, keep your body moving, and enjoy a glass of wine or beer regularly."


As of today I have 8 veterans living on my units (totaling approx 60) who are currently over 100 years old. 4 more vets will be turning 100 this year! I am so proud of the excellent care being provided by my incredible teams for the veterans.

















I must add that I share many same interests and values. I don't plan to live to 107 but it's sure worth trying


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

That's awesome Cyclelicious! Thanks for sharing. Part of the struggle for the aging is having a sense of purpose and production.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Very cool cyclelicious.
I wish I had such fulfilling connections through my employment. Surely that in itself is a pillar to a long and happy life. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

It is never too late to do the most important thing you do your whole life.

Love your neighbor as yourself.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

SoDakSooner said:


> I preach to my kids ad nauseum that they are a result of the choices they make. My 26 year old is starting to get it, My 17 year old.....not so much. He doesn't have time or it's someone elses fault, etc.... Hopefully he figures it out. It's not for lack of me trying.


That's a great illustration of how the human brain develops. Your 26 year old has probably completed the development of the regions that are used for risk analysis, potential outcomes and decision making. Your 17 year old hasn't yet developed the ability in his brain to do those things - he's not ignoring you, his brain simply is not capable of those functions yet.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

OzarkFathom said:


> It is never too late to do the most important thing you do your whole life.
> 
> Love your neighbor as yourself.


What about loving your neighbor's wife?


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

Counterproductive......


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

OzarkFathom said:


> It is never too late to do the most important thing you do your whole life.
> 
> Love your neighbor as yourself.


Howzabout we throw in "love your enemy", as well?


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Radium said:


> Howzabout we throw in "love your enemy", as well?


Uh, hell naw.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

OzarkFathom said:


> It is never too late to do the most important thing you do your whole life.
> 
> Love your neighbor as yourself.


Amen brother !!


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## FatTurtle (Apr 24, 2018)

“Be responsible and accountable”

That’s what I tell my kids before they go out the door with their friends, in addition to the I Love You’s

If I say it enough times it will sink in...that’s my theory and I’m hoping to be right.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

OzarkFathom said:


> Counterproductive......


... hmm, she gets knocked-up and the kid is the next Einstein. Still counterproductive?


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## Retire (Jan 11, 2020)

Life is not a video game.....no respawning or do-overs!


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

Retire said:


> Life is not a video game.....no respawning or do-overs!


I don't know man, I respawned after a widowmaker!


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> The practice of dumping on the next generation for being lazy, undisciplined, and generally not as awesome as we think we were at that age has been going on for a long time.
> 
> There are ancient Egyptian texts that read like the OP.
> 
> If it were true, civilization would have collapsed millennia ago.


Yup, and if one was to try to go beyond generalities to actual situations their argument would immediately fall apart.

So we better stick with generalities in order to maintain our sense of superiority.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Radium said:


> Howzabout we throw in "love your enemy", as well?


A lot of times they are our neighbors.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Cerberus75 said:


> A lot of times they are our neighbors.


Ain't that the truth. Following Jeebus's red letter-commands is not easy.


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## Retire (Jan 11, 2020)

woodchips said:


> I don't know man, I respawned after a widowmaker!


As in a big limb falling out of a tree?


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

mileslong said:


> What about loving your neighbor's wife?


So long as you don't covet his ass...


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## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Waxing philosophical, Ben? Something I enjoy.

It is easy to have a less than positive outlook on the youth, as immature attitudes are easy to spot. Mature, responsible behavior, well...is doing what should be expected, and in general, does not draw attention. 

What gets me, are those of us in the baby boomer generation, who exhibit a deplorable lack of self reflection; or even a wiliness to engage in the thought of it. They have locked themselves into a given mindset; irrespective of any evidence or logic to the contrary. Should one attempt to give them 'food for thought'; you quickly become the 'judgmental bad guy.' 

I am referencing those who live quiet, 'good person' lives. They will speak of a goal to live lives governed by love. A love that accepts, that does not make lifestyle judgments, where there are no absolutes. (And that is absolutely true) Any bright star can be used to plot ones course upon the sea of life.

It is not so much a generational divide, as it is a divide existing in the mind, young or old. The young can be excused somewhat for the wishful thinking of youth; many grow out from it; some of us never do. Some wear a face of anger, striking out against past hurts, others wear the mask of love, to hide those hurts.

To address the other point that Ben raised...physical well being. As one gets older, I am drawn to the conclusion that a flexible body is more valuable than building muscle mass; so as not to become too 'set in our ways'.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Radium said:


> Ain't that the truth. Following Jeebus's red letter-commands is not easy.


No it's not. Probably why most churches are judgemental and not loving.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Waxing philosophical? Always.

I try to remain positive, I'd like to think that older adults (us) have the experience and wisdom to do the right thing, but somehow that doesn't seem to happen.

Why aren't we seen in a positive light? Was it always this way or has it gotten worse over time.

Oddly enough, most politicians are older, so no wonder young people don't vote.



SADDLE TRAMP said:


> Waxing philosophical, Ben? Something I enjoy.
> 
> It is easy to have a less than positive outlook on the youth, as immature attitudes are easy to spot. Mature, responsible behavior, well...is doing what should be expected, and in general, does not draw attention.
> 
> ...


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

> Why aren't we seen in a positive light?


Too Much Stuff.......

If Old Folks have taken time with younger folks, they respond.

It's all about time.
Put yourself in a position to teach a young person something.
Help them do something better.
It takes effort but it pays off.
Young men are hungry for encouragement from respectable men.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

For me, it took an old man, who supported me as a kid, to die to understand what I lost. So much is taken for granted, until it's taken away.

What we need is to fix the process of communicating what it is that makes up such things, that makes them valuable, in such a nihilistic world. A finer view of reality's details, that is more universally shared, rather than delusional hope and despair.

In the US specifically, capitalism is essentially chaining the people as slaves, as it tries to monetize everything surrounding our interests. We want to escape from all this hevel, if only momentarily. It's causing Americans to be shut-in. People are getting behind novel new movements to even find reason to step out. The world is being left in the hands of people, by predecessors that are more selfish and lost than we are, not wanting to expose how wrong they were about things, perhaps due to pride.

Regarding voting, there simply aren't any Abe Lincolns in present day to excite me enough to vote for them. Bernie promises that he hasn't "soul'ed out" to industry, but people call him Leninist, due to how he is such a big threat to wall street (and capitalism). People associate capitalism to democracy, so not much chance of him winning. Warren is a watered down version. Priorities and reason are questionable in the other main candidates: not taking global warming seriously, and putting funding into national security (wall and military), and demanding others pay more for American globalization efforts... I'm not proud to be associated with Americans when outsiders consider the average American to be a stupid ******* or fat gullible consumer. Speaking of globalization, it just allowed capitalism to enslave those in other countries to work even cheaper, which is abuse in its own right, that people seemingly accept/support.

The wisdom of the Bible suggests to let it all pass, that God judges all who dies equally, that it's all hevel. To have simple pleasures of observing what we can't control. In that sense, people are just trolls because they're bored, treating people as if it's reality TV, starring in their own show. That's how I view right-wingers, as just trolls, because I can't imagine they're really as stupid as they make themselves out to be.

Regarding policy, I just see it as protecting people from the abuses of freedom. What's to keep someone from violating you out in public, such as in line at a shop, or on public transportation? People feel like they have more to lose these days, that they're not prepared to give it up, so have insecure feelings which I deem as negative.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

> because I can't imagine they're really as stupid as they make themselves out to be.


Maybe "they" aren't as stupid as _you_ make them out to be.



> What we need is to fix the process of communicating what it is that makes up such things, that makes them valuable, in such a nihilistic world. A finer view of reality's details, that is more universally shared, rather than delusional hope and despair.


Building meaning into my own life has done more to help me understand others than anything else I've ever done. It takes a lifetime.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Dear Nurse Ben, being Canadian i obviously have a different view.
One of the big last 100 years problem is a few have power and they use it for their own good.
They constantly lie to hide all their illegals doing, own the main medias so the majority of the so called info keeps most people ignorant.
Wow terrible topic.
About ignorance, hundreds of millions of people south of our border call themselves Americans like we call ourselfes Canadians.
America is a continent, not a country.
Calling yourself # 1 is half truth.
The end of that sentence is ignorant.
When lists come out about the 50 richest countries on our planet you are about 25 on important stuff like education and health, just like Cuba wich according to you is a terrible country.
Your only # 1 position is at wasting $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Your defense budget is at least 5 times too much.
It is just making you more ennemies bombing people evrywhere every week.
But here in Quebec just about every exit on our highways is called saint like i live in Saint-Jerome. The catholics just ruled our province for decades, evrywhere we see 1 to 5 Saint-Joseph streets or boulevard. In the sixties we were feedup so we kicked them out. Since then we have a long list of corrupted politicians at the federal, provincial and municipal levels.
Basically in north america honest citizens are victims of people in power. 
If i was young i might be in jail for putting bombs.
We are just piling up debts so the next generations are screwed.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

OzarkFathom said:


> Maybe "they" aren't as stupid as _you_ make them out to be.
> 
> Building meaning into my own life has done more to help me understand others than anything else I've ever done. It takes a lifetime.


Hmm, correcting my grammar? I take no sides, but I know some right-wingers and seeing them fight against the left, which devolves into elementary school name-calling. It's amusing, but stupid, which of course is what is remembered, rather than all the ideas brought up.

It's just opinions and beliefs in the end, which don't really have value to anyone but their owner, which tells more about them than the world/reality. It's like an advertisement to get like-minded people to be social with them.

Building meaning into your own life is some of Nietzsche's wisdom, who is much quoted in nihilism. The Bible teaches it too, but I guess it might be blasphemy to suggest nihilism and the Bible share things, when religious folk seemingly dislike such heathens and the rise of nihilism.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

I wasn’t correcting your grammar. 
Know very well what you mean with the name calling.
Some folks are too simplistic with how they do it.
Right winger bible thumping nihilistic fat capitalist ******** donchaknow...

....and their bleeding heart liberal snowflake leftist atheist counterparts.....

But when you get past all of the circling, sizing up, and posturing it comes down to this.
Your choices are your own.
Choose Wisely.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

> When lists come out about the 50 richest countries on our planet you are about 25 on important stuff like education and health, just like Cuba wich according to you is a terrible country.
> Your only # 1 position is at wasting $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
> 
> Basically in north america honest citizens are victims of people in power.
> If i was young i might be in jail for putting bombs.


33red.......
Something for you to chew on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/29/the-top-10-charities-changing-the-world-in-2016.html

https://www.forbes.com/lists/top-charities/#177e64fc5f50


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Most young people don't recognize their potential to choose, they often say things like " I can't", "it's not my fault", or they blame others for their choices. In time and with experience, they'll learn what we already know.


I've spent the last 35 years in higher education and research, working with a fresh group of 20 and 21 year-olds every year. I experienced just as much whining and excuse making 30 years ago as I do today. But every year there are plenty of great young people coming along to buoy my spirits and hopes for the future, and more so now than ever before. The top 20% of my students any year can kick our collective asses in intellect and (often) on the trail. While others in this thread see reason to worry about the youth of today, I'm anxious to see the baton pass to the more recent crop, say the past 10 years of high-achieving graduates -- they have the normal youth-derived energy and desire to make a difference, but more than ever before they demonstrate compassion for their fellow man that is driven by a broader understanding of economic and social drivers that paint the world in shades of gray, not the black and white perceived by older generations. This group of 20 to 30 year-olds that I've taken a liking to fully understand there are both short and long term consequences to their actions. It's the next 5 to 10 years I'm worried about -- from my perspective, the current crop of "leaders" can't age out fast enough. If we can survive them, our golden years might just be smooth sailing...


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm going to brag just a bit.

Awhile back my good friend and neighbor approached me and said, "Chuck, your two boys have grown into fine, responsible young men." He went on to ask what would I say was a key to them turning out as well as they have.

First, I was taken aback and had to really put some thought to his question. He had known them since they were around 8 and 10. I didn't want to be flip or dismissive about it at all, as he had two teenagers at the time.

After giving it some thought, I came up with a couple of things that seemed to work for us. I told him, first and foremost, we stayed involved in their lives and showed an interest in what they were doing. Instead of sending them off to hang with their friends, their friends came over and hung out with them/us. It was chaotic at times, but we knew what they were up to.

Next, I told him I never lied to them. Now, I might not have always told them EVERYTHING, but there was never a time when they could come back to me and say that I gave them bad information.

The third thing was that it was up to me/us (my wife and I) to set the example. They were sponges soaking up everything in front of them whether we knew it or not.

Beyond that, I wasn't afraid to discipline them, even when it was uncomfortable to do so. Like the time my youngest (around 15 at the time) thought he could get away with mouthing off to me in front of the same friend/neighbor. I think he figured, I'd play it off in order not to embarrass either of us in front of the friend. I excused myself to the neighbor and told my son, "Look, you may think you're in a position to challenge me right now, but I guarantee you that you're not." "If you think you're man enough, then do it right here, right now." I went on to tell him to give me his best shot, but that he would regret it. He backed down and apologized. 

Boys are funny that way. It's almost primitive and tribal. They want to challenge for leadership of the pack. 

Anyway... The point being, I guess is that we are responsible for our kids from the time we birth them til they're out on their own. If you can't do that, don't have kids.

Sorry for the lengthy post and the thread drift.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ptor said:


> I've spent the last 35 years in higher education and research, working with a fresh group of 20 and 21 year-olds every year. I experienced just as much whining and excuse making 30 years ago as I do today. But every year there are plenty of great young people coming along to buoy my spirits and hopes for the future, and more so now than ever before. The top 20% of my students any year can kick our collective asses in intellect and (often) on the trail. While others in this thread see reason to worry about the youth of today, I'm anxious to see the baton pass to the more recent crop, say the past 10 years of high-achieving graduates -- they have the normal youth-derived energy and desire to make a difference, but more than ever before they demonstrate compassion for their fellow man that is driven by a broader understanding of economic and social drivers that paint the world in shades of gray, not the black and white perceived by older generations. This group of 20 to 30 year-olds that I've taken a liking to fully understand there are both short and long term consequences to their actions. It's the next 5 to 10 years I'm worried about -- from my perspective, the current crop of "leaders" can't age out fast enough. If we can survive them, our golden years might just be smooth sailing...


That's my hope, but then I expect that was also our parent's hope, so I'm kinda wondering if the "two planets joke" is gonna be our endgame.

Of course it'll be long after all of us have gone to dust, but it's still something that gets me thinking. Mind you, I don't worry all that much to begin with and it won't keep me awake at night.

My original thoughts were less about the youth than they were about us, ie what are we doing, what can we be doing, are we yesterday's news or can we make a difference.

That whole "get off my lawn" approach, or the "been there and done that" mentality of getting old is kinda selfish and doesn't really add to anything.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

chuckha62 said:


> I'm going to brag just a bit.
> 
> Awhile back my good friend and neighbor approached me and said, "Chuck, your two boys have grown into fine, responsible young men." He went on to ask what would I say was a key to them turning out as well as they have.
> 
> ...


So the child psychologist in me would not approve of that tact, just saying.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

33red said:


> Dear Nurse Ben, being Canadian i obviously have a different view.
> One of the big last 100 years problem is a few have power and they use it for their own good.
> They constantly lie to hide all their illegals doing, own the main medias so the majority of the so called info keeps most people ignorant.
> Wow terrible topic.
> ...


I do like Canada and Canadians, can you get me in?


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## HawkGX (May 24, 2012)

So does anyone else think that even though there are probably way more child psychologists out there than decades ago, that hasn't necessarily lead to a major improvement in how young people grow up and become solid, level-headed and mature adults in our society?

I'm not saying the child psychology of today doesn't have its place, but it's not the panacea for all the ills of today's youth. But in the same regard, no-BS tough parenting is no guarantee of "success" either.



Nurse Ben said:


> So the child psychologist in me would not approve of that tact, just saying.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> So the child psychologist in me would not approve of that tact, just saying.


"Just sayin"? You just said it.

Yet, I have two well adjusted, engaged, employed, contributing adult male children. Go figure.

So, what part do you object to? The staying engaged part? The NOT lying part? The setting a good example part? Have you raised male children through adolescence? If not, talk to me AFTER you experience the part where they challenge you. It WILL happen.

I will close by saying, I grew up with some children of a Child Psychologist (close family friends). Sadly, they're some of the most F-d up people I've ever known.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ptor said:


> I've spent the last 35 years in higher education and research
> 
> ... The top 20% of my students .


I like your post, a lot, but simply does not represent a cross section of society.

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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

> So the child psychologist in me would not approve of that tact, just saying.


I'll take the example of well raised, productive, well adjusted kids to any child psychologist theory out there.

This 50 year parentless trend is exacting a heavy toll. It will only get worse.
But there are reasons for optimism.....one case at a time....little glimpses of optimism.



> ......._first and foremost, we stayed involved in their lives and showed an interest in what they were doing. Instead of sending them off to hang with their friends, their friends came over and hung out with them/us. It was chaotic at times, but we knew what they were up to._......._The third thing was that it was up to me/us (my wife and I) to set the example. They were sponges soaking up everything in front of them whether we knew it or not._


Pure Gold.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

> I do like Canada and Canadians, can you get me in?


Surely you can just cross the Canadian border and stay........


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chuckha62 said:


> I'm going to brag just a bit.
> 
> Awhile back my good friend and neighbor approached me and said, "Chuck, your two boys have grown into fine, responsible young men." He went on to ask what would I say was a key to them turning out as well as they have.
> 
> ...


Thumbs up 

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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

OzarkFathom said:


> Surely you can just cross the Canadian border and stay........


I can make it real legal if he chooses to be my husband.
Great deal, free health care.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

I wasn’t aware that Canadians put up legal barriers to immigrants.....
Free stuff huh.
Sounds like a really fun place.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

WHALENARD said:


> I like your post, a lot, but simply does not represent a cross section of society.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


The top 20% in a professors classroom is certainly a filter. The most common things I see are a sense of entitlement, a lack of controlled aggressiveness when it is called for, reduced ability to maintain focus, an aversion to personal communication skill.



> If we can survive them, our golden years might just be smooth sailing...


The Wolf is ALWAYS at the door.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I have absolutely no clue who you are talking about.
It has been decades since subhumans are in the majority.
They have no clue how to write, totally incapable at very basics maths, zero focus capacity.

Just yesterday around 4pm my doorbell rang.
2 boys about 12 years old telling they are looking for a girl(friend).
The cell battery is dead.
The brain is never used.
The screen is always right even if it says 1 tomatoe costs 9$.
They are parked since way too early until they receive some diploma wich has zero value.
They want 2 things, more credit, less thinking.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

HawkGX said:


> So does anyone else think that even though there are probably way more child psychologists out there than decades ago, that hasn't necessarily lead to a major improvement in how young people grow up and become solid, level-headed and mature adults in our society?
> 
> I'm not saying the child psychology of today doesn't have its place, but it's not the panacea for all the ills of today's youth. But in the same regard, no-BS tough parenting is no guarantee of "success" either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually, there are not enough pediatric mental health practitioners to go around.


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