# lightest kids bike with gears



## adventure dude (Nov 18, 2009)

My search for a lightweight kids bike was time consuming and frustrating,finally found a single speed version.I am now in the market for a light weight bike with gears for a 9 yr old and also wishful thinking I`m sure, a 6 yr old for his birthday.Please respond if you know of any since I don`t want to call 12 bike shops,go to 5 shops only to lift their product and find its heavier than an adults bike.Since the children weigh like one third to a fourth the weight of an adult how can they be expected to climb hills on a bike that weighs almost as much as they do?


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## canuckjgc (Jun 22, 2007)

Can the 9 year old ride a really small 26" bike? If so, go that route. Otherwise, I found the Specialized Hotrock the lightest bike for the money, a few upgrades will drop over a pound off of it.

There are no fantastic geared bikes for kids in North America -- the UK has Islabikes but when I looked into ordering one, shipping and duties exceeded the cost of the bike.


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## donglow (Nov 18, 2009)

Scott makes the lightest kids mountain bikes with gears in both 20” and 24” wheels that I have found. The 24 also comes in there RC (race) model. But there is a lot of room for improvement in the parts they could use and the ones they do.

It’s a tough search to find a good one. A decent road bike for kids triathlons is even tougher. But the good news is when you do find one, the resell value is pretty good on e-bay when they out grow it.

I have my daughter on trick 20” single speed BMX. I did a lot of searching and found one that had a seat tube angle that was enough forward and was long enough the bike could be used in sit down mode. The manufacture of the frame is out of business now. It came with some pretty trick parts (carbon forks for example). The bike weighs less than 12lbs? I have about 10 different chain rings and 3 cassette rings for gearing combinations. It takes a lot of work to get the gearing right for an event, but when it is, she is fast. She races triathlons, biathlons, mountain bike, and criteriums. Basically any race we can find with a kids division and is within driving distance.

I was watching a kids triathlon bike race section. There was 180 degree turn at the end of a street they had to make and in each lap of about 8. Only a few of the older kids in the 14-17 year division ever shifted. Still can’t get my wife too, and she is 30!


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

I am in the same boat. The lightest bike I found was the Specialized Hotrock A1 FS (the small one was 22.5 lbs on the bike shop scale). I've read the Scott RC hardtail was 22 even (but it is 3 times as expensive - but it has some nice advantages). You'd think you could get a sub-20 lb bike for under $500 somewhere. 

The other route is to try a "cruiser" bmx (24" wheels).

Does anyone know of a website displaying stock weights of junior bikes?


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## Cros (Nov 23, 2009)

*scott ?*

Does anyone know the weight of the Scott Scale JR 24 ? Lists for $ 499 on scott web site.
thanks
Cros


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

I will check the next time I see one - but I remember it being around 26 lbs at REI. This is the mid-level Scott bike (the upper level RC version comes in at 22 lbs).

What I found strange was the price ($450 ). You can get a specialized that is lighter and cheaper ($400-ish for 22.5 lbs). I wasn't able to take it apart - but I don't know why the specialized was so superior. 

If anyone has better info feel free to chime in (corrections appreciated).

sb


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

The best & lightest 24" wheel bike with gears is the Scott Scale RC JR 24 = 22 lbs.As far as reducing the weight, start with Moe Joe tires & replacing the 44T ring with a BBG superlite chain guide & shortening the chain.You can take this further by running a short cage rear del & lightweight road front del.After that its carbon bars, foam grips,seat,pedals,Middleburn 160mm cranks with alum. chain rings.This however is a big bucks set up,but there is no cheap lightweight 24 " wheel bike for kids unfortunately.


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## donglow (Nov 18, 2009)

The only problem with a using a cruiser (or any bmx bike) is they are made for stand up riding, and their seat tube angle is usually too far back, even if you are able to raise the seat high enough. You might be able to use a bent seat posts (I think Profile makes several) like people use to convert road bikes into tri-bikes to bring the seat forward – if you could get the correct diameter. BMX bikes typically have seat tube angle in the upper 60’s and mountain bikes in the lower 70’s. If everything worked out, you could get a very light 24” single speed kids mountain bike. You would also need to replace the handle bars.

The other option I’m thinking about (when the time comes) is to find a well-used Specialized, Scott, or other aluminum kids frame bike and rebuild it using good light components. Scott RC’s are currently the lightest, but your paying a lot to go from the other manufactures cheap components to not even mid-level components, which you will need to replace anyway, if you want to get the bike down to what it ought to be. 

Or just keep looking and sending messages to people who post about their custom kid's bikes. There kids will out grow these bikes and maybe you can pre-arrange to be at the first of the line to buy them.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Alot of the components on the Scott RC 24 bikes are alot better than "below mid-level components" Things like XT shadow rear del. light weight wheels,Scott Pro brakes,alum.bars,stem, seat,nice air shock & decent fork are mid level or up components.But you are correct on things like the cranks,cassette,tires.For the extra money I don't think the price is all that bad for what it would cost to upgrade to these components later.


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## donglow (Nov 18, 2009)

good info xc71!


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## Polymer (Jul 25, 2006)

We purchased this 20" bike for our 6 yr old girl and she rode 8.5 miles with us today. She loves it!
The frame is aluminum and the component spec is not bad. They did not have a girls color so we stripped it and added custom paint, stickers and clear coat. She picked out hte stickers nad paint so now she is proud of her ride!

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1085162_-1_72000_20000_72002


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

Polymer said:


> We purchased this 20" bike for our 6 yr old girl and she rode 8.5 miles with us today. She loves it!http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1085162_-1_72000_20000_72002


We have the same bike (Schwinn Mini Mesa). So far my 6-year old son likes this aluminum-framed bike. It comes in at 28.5 lbs on my scale (iirc). The front fork is poor, but the bike works well on-road.

Off-road the bike is ehh. He struggles on most bumps (20" wheels don't roll over roots) and it is a heavy bike (relatively speaking).

His next bike will be a Scott or Specialized 24" lightweight bike.


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## Cros (Nov 23, 2009)

*specialized*

My 8 year old has been riding Diamondback Octane 20" on single track doing OK ( needs lower gearing ) but he will be a very happy boy on xmas as we just got him a 2009 specialized hotrocks A1 Fs on sale. I will be looking to lighten this bike up over the winter. Any suggestions on subtracting a pound or two ....

Thanks
Cros


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

Cros said:


> ..he will be a very happy boy on xmas as we just got him a 2009 specialized hotrocks A1 Fs on sale.....
> 
> Thanks
> Cros


That is the bike I'm looking at. Did you get the large or small? Did you get a weight on it? Also, what did you pay?

As for lightening... remove the reflectors 

Seriously, other than cutting the seatpost (not wise for a growing child), putting on a ti-seat, or running a front single (with bbg ring) - I can't see much weight you could remove. There just aren't that many light-weight components that will scale-down (Specialized did a good job on this one). Light-weight 24-spoke wheels, tubes, or tires are the only other item.

As always - corrections appreciated.

Thanks,
sb


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## Cros (Nov 23, 2009)

*specialized*

I'll let you know the weight after I take kickstand reflectors etc off... I am looking for better ( lighter) tires


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Cros said:


> My 8 year old has been riding Diamondback Octane 20" on single track doing OK ( needs lower gearing ) but he will be a very happy boy on xmas as we just got him a 2009 specialized hotrocks A1 Fs on sale. I will be looking to lighten this bike up over the winter. Any suggestions on subtracting a pound or two ....
> 
> Thanks
> Cros


Swap the bar and seat post out. I bought a lightly used Easton Carbon road post, replaced the handle bar with an older alum bar I had, and dropped a pound on my daughter's 20' Hotrock. I weighed the tires, brakes, seat, and didn't see anywhere to go on those items.


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## Cros (Nov 23, 2009)

I am looking at changing tires. Bike came with Specialized Fast trak LK that are 745 gr. I am considering getting Kenda Small Block eight that are 470 gr. I think this is a significant reduction in rolling weight.
thanks for info on bars and stem.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

The Schwable Moe Joe 20" folding tires have a claimed weight of 330 grams.


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## Cros (Nov 23, 2009)

*24 inch*

looks interesting. 24 inch mow joe is 420 gr


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## Srexy (Jan 19, 2004)

Redline's Conquest 20" claims to be 20lbs. Has anyone got experience with this one?


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## quasi888 (Mar 13, 2009)

Every 20" multigeared MTB I have come across has been in the 25-lb range or more. The Scott Scale JR 20 came the closest to what I wanted. (The Ibis Alpine 440k would be at the top of my list, but they are now out of business.) For most manufacturers, it doesn't make sense to spec out a 20" bike that very few parents are willing to spend more than $300-400 on (I would be first in line as one of them, though). Once you move up to the 24" sizes, the selection (and component list) is much better, with well-sorted bikes like the Scott Scale RC and Specialized A1 FS, with brand name components.

I just picked up a Marin Hidden Canyon 20" for my 6-y/o son, to race in a local MTB race series this spring. This bike retails for well over $300, but I got it for $100 from a local Sport Chalet (long story, involves a customer return, and my sister-in-law being in employee at another Sport Chalet store). The frame seems decent, but most everything else on this bike is below mediocre. I'm glad I didn't spend more than $100 on this, because I basically took it to the frame, and replaced almost every component. I have also changed it from a 2x7 drivetrain to 1x7 using my son's old BMX race cranks. I'm probably down nearly 2 lbs so far. Next in line is a custom wheelset (lightweight BMX race rims, Shimano road hubs, and 9-speed cassette), narrower/lighter 20x1.5 BMX race tires, and SRAM cassette and X.5 derailleur/shifter to convert it to a 1x9. The wheelset alone should be a huge improvement in weight and performance. I'll likely post a new thread here when the build is complete.

donglow, your experience with your daughter's BMX bike mirrors mine almost exactly. Is that frame an FMF? I custom built his FMF Micro Mini last year to race BMX, and it's the same bike he used this year for triathlons. He's taken home a state champion plate in BMX last year, and a champion title in his triathlon series this year. Needless to say, it's proven to be quite a versatile bike! As you've mentioned though, BMX geometry is not ideal for sit-down riding, and for this upcoming year, I'm debating between building him a 24" BMX cruiser (much lighter weight, but poor geometry) or making the jump to a 24" road bike (good road geometry, but much heavier, and he doesn't need all those gears).



> I weighed the tires, brakes, seat, and didn't see anywhere to go on those items.


You can definitely get somewhere with tires and seat, if you look at BMX race (not freestyle) parts. I saved 110g (nearly 1/4 lb) with the Odyssey Junior seat, and probably at least the same amount *per tire* with the IRC Siren 20x1.5 tires I plan on getting. (May not fit your stock rim, though.) Thats a huge savings in rotational mass. And, while I agree you might not save much in weight on the brakes, I can say that the replacing the generic units/levers with even low-end Avids and new cables was a HUGE improvement in stopping efficiency. The stockers were pure crap. Another place you might look is the bottom bracket. I saved about 150g there, using the titanium spindle BB that was on his BMX race bike. Other than the weight, the difference in how easy the cranks now spin is a night-and-day difference.

Sorry for going off topic....someone (probably me ) needs to start a kid's bike weight weenie thread!


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

*Thanks for info Quasi888...*

...and for everyone else's input. I found a good spot for 24" tire reviews (includes weights):

http://www.bmxultra.com/reviews/

I took apart my son's Schwinn Mini Mesa. Everything except the front fork & wheel weighs 18 lbs. The front wheel and fork weigh 8.5 lbs! I've looked around - and there are no worthy 20" forks (RST are good - but for the price, it makes sense to just step up to a 24" wheeled bike). The Mini Mesa is a good bike for the price ($150 on sale), but I'm going to buy a lightweight 24" hardtail for this summer. The specialized 11.5" hotrock a1 FS is the smallest 24" I can find, and after that he's going to step up to 26" wheels.

Any input, suggestions, or relevant experience appreciated.


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## River Hill (Jun 20, 2005)

Both of my kids have the Hotrock A1FS and loved them. My daughters only saw the toe paths though and my sons was used more. I have both the 11.5 and the 13.5, so if you know of anyone still looking for one let me know.


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## quasi888 (Mar 13, 2009)

scottb32,

That's a good resource for evaluating BMX race parts. One thing you should keep in mind with BMX race tires: most of them nowadays are designed for hardpack conditions. Many of today's BMX tracks are meticulously groomed to be ultra smooth; some even have asphalt starting ramps and berms. The tires reflect this, with the "fast" ones having much less tread than the BMX tires of yesteryear. So, when evaluating tires, you'll want to consider not only the weight, but the intended purpose of the tire as well, and ensure that it aligns with the type of riding your child will be doing. A fast, ultralight race tire like the Intense Micro Knobby -- with its thousands of tiny knobbies -- does well on a dry, hardpack BMX track, but would probably fare poorly in loose/wet trail conditions.


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

*BMX Tires*

Thanks Quasi888 - I think I'd lean more towards the Tioga X or Intense Haalo tire in a narrow size if I wanted to go light. I've seen some YouTube of BMX racing, and it is nothing like what I remember it (I'm 44 and those kids were a blur - man am I old).

River Hill - I send you a PM. I am actively looking for a Hotrock A1FS - send me an e-mail.


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## GP-TJ (Jan 24, 2004)

Srexy said:


> Redline's Conquest 20" claims to be 20lbs. Has anyone got experience with this one?


I haven't seen one in person but did hear about it at the Interbike East. It looks very promising for my son. He is riding a cheap 16" bike now. I really don't like the idea of gears. I think they may frustrate him a little but I guess he'll learn. The brakes will also take some getting used to. He has a coaster now.

I think a singlespeed coaster brake bike with mtb geometry would be great. When they get older, a ss with a freewheel would be the next step and add the brake levers. Then add the gears next. Flat bar to be like dad's bike.

The conquest 20 might have to do though. I can't believe they don't make lighter more user friendly kids bikes.

GP


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

scottb32 said:


> ...and for everyone else's input. I found a good spot for 24" tire reviews (includes weights):
> 
> http://www.bmxultra.com/reviews/
> 
> ...


I've seen carbon 20" forks from Answer on OEM bikes, but with limited searching haven't seen them for sale by them selves. That's what I would like for my kid, an aluminum 1x7 with light rigid forks...


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

quasi888 said:


> scottb32,
> 
> That's a good resource for evaluating BMX race parts. One thing you should keep in mind with BMX race tires: most of them nowadays are designed for hardpack conditions. Many of today's BMX tracks are meticulously groomed to be ultra smooth; some even have asphalt starting ramps and berms. The tires reflect this, with the "fast" ones having much less tread than the BMX tires of yesteryear. So, when evaluating tires, you'll want to consider not only the weight, but the intended purpose of the tire as well, and ensure that it aligns with the type of riding your child will be doing. A fast, ultralight race tire like the Intense Micro Knobby -- with its thousands of tiny knobbies -- does well on a dry, hardpack BMX track, but would probably fare poorly in loose/wet trail conditions.


Someone in another thread said that the 20" bmx race wheels were slightly different in size than the standard 20" wheels, and therefore the 20" bmx tires wouldn't work. True/Untrue?


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Little spendy, but it's a 1 1/8 threadless carbon rigid fork.

http://www.treefortbikes.com/230_333222348572__Scythe-Pro-24"-Carbon-Fork.html

Take the clunker front fork off a 24" MTB an put this on, that's gotta lose a few pounds!

EDIT: Doh! Just realized this fork is not suspension adjusted, so on a 24" MTB the front end would be to low and the geometry would get all screwed up...


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## quasi888 (Mar 13, 2009)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Someone in another thread said that the 20" bmx race wheels were slightly different in size than the standard 20" wheels, and therefore the 20" bmx tires wouldn't work. True/Untrue?


It depends. There are two different diameters of 20" wheels (and tires, for that matter). The more common one is 406mm, and is found on most juvenile bikes as well as most BMX bikesa and 20" MTBs. You will typically see these used with tires ranging from 20x1.5 to 20x2.1. Less common is the 451mm diameter. You usually only see these on lightweight BMX race bikes (e.g. minis, experts) for the younger kids. Tire sizes for these range from 20x1 to 20x1-3/8. So, as long as the wheel diameter matches the tire diameter, you are generally OK. (If you look closely at the tire sidewall, there will be an numeric ISO designation like 54-406. The first is the width; the second is the diameter of the inner bead. So as long as you are matching a 406 tire with a 406 rim, you are good.


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## quasi888 (Mar 13, 2009)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Little spendy, but it's a 1 1/8 threadless carbon rigid fork.
> 
> http://www.treefortbikes.com/230_333222348572__Scythe-Pro-24"-Carbon-Fork.html
> 
> ...


I have the 20" mini version of this on my son's BMX race bike. It is indeed nice, and LIGHT! (About one pound!) In additioin to the geometry consideration you mentioned, however, there is also the fact that there is no provision for mounting front brakes. (BMX race bikes don't have front brakes.)


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

So I've been taking my 6y/o son out to some local trails. Some double and single tracks.

He rides a Redline Proline mini that I've geared down from 37/14 to 37/18. He's about the same gearing as my 29-er rigid with 32/20 gearing.

He's able to put down some good torque for the slower trails as well as climbing hills.

He weighs 48#. His bike is 16#. His tires are 1-3/8.

I was worried about his skinny tires and his rear only brakes. BUT something to really consider:

Don't compare the child's needs with your own. At 48# + 16# bike for a total of 64#, that 1-3/8" tire is probably like you running a 2.5" plus tire. The 20" diameter is like rolling a 29-er. Root sections that I thought he was going to lose it, he didn't. Just rolled right over it. The rear brake only would scare us silly with the lack of braking. But he's not trying to slow down 200+# of mass. Plus, how good is your child at threshold braking on the front tire? Do they know to stay off of the fronts when cornering or on slippery surfaces?

In any case, I figure he can ride the mini for another season. At 7-1/2 y/o, I'll see if I can modify my wife's Rockhopper 26-er (XS) with a carbon rigid fork and lose the front derailuer to run 1x8. I should be able to get the Rockhopper into the low 20s weight for him.


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## texacajun (Jan 20, 2004)

Just ordered up these for my daughter's Hotrock (from Santa):










They're Maxxis DTH's 
"Designed for the 2008 Beijing Games, the foldable DTH is super-light to accelerate like no other BMX tire, yet holds up to the abuse you dish out. The dual-compound tread corners incomparably on hard-packed tracks and rolls fast on the straights."

The 1.95" is 120 tpi and weights 365 g. Gonna replace the specialized 2.125" 30 TPI's. Thought about going narrower, but we have a lot of rocks & roots here so I want to get that extra cush and run them low.

I went all thru the QBP catalog yesterday and the big problem is most of the bmx tires are heavy wire beads or the company doesn't list the weight. :madman: I really wanted a Kenda Small Block 8, but they weren't listed. I know one BMX company used them as OEM, but they weren't in the catalog as 20's. :cryin:

Edit: ouch $100 pair, back to the drawing board.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Who sells the Schwalbe Mow Joe 2.4 foldings, in the States? I can only find them in the UK, and uh... for a lot of those L things.

That said, we went with the Specialized HotRock A1FS, it being the best deal on a lightwieght, functional bike for the money we could find. After I got it home, I pulled off the oem aluminum handlebar to swap for a carbon bar we'd had to cut down due to bar-endage and discovered the Spesh bar is HEAVY duty... With that swap and then a parts-bin 27.2 post to replace the oem, it makes for a nice light bike. I left the reflectors in the wheels, by the way. We can be cool later.


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

EveryBicycleTire.com sells Schwalbe (kind of spendy for the 24" folding bead). They are in Florida (I have never ordered from them).

How light did you get your A1FS?

Thanks,
sb


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Our son's 11.5" framed, 24" wheeled A1FS is about 20lb. The modifications our of our parts bin are:
Am Classic road seatpost
Easton SL90 bar, with Cane Creek Ergo 2 ends (heavy)
Avid SD7 brakes
seatstay mounted rear reflector
mini/demi toe clips
bottle cage

The weight savings, which is offset by the bar ends he likes, comes from the swap out of the OEM bar and post, both of which are heavy. The rest of the bike, other than the fork, is very nicely light. The fork is heavy, but it works great for a 50+ lb kid, and that means something.

Mu interest in folding bead tires is because he's worn his tires down and why not save some weight? Well, the answer why not is that a pair of those Schwalbe are over $100. Not a chance. Think of the tears (mine) the first time he decided to skid turn when riding around the block!


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## scottb32 (May 14, 2009)

20 lbs - NICE! That's the bike I've been looking at, and it's good to hear you can shave some weight off the bar & seatpost.

Other sources for tires: Amazon - try the Intense Haalo (NOTE: make sure the diameter is correct - not all 24" tires are 24" tires):

http://www.amazon.com/Intense-Haalo...=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1260901014&sr=1-91

Review of Haalo:

http://www.bmxultra.com/reviews/intense_haalo_tires.htm

I have no experience with these - but the weight is nice.


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## BTLS (Dec 22, 2008)

River Hill - I am also looking for a hotrock A1FS - please check your messages....


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

Just got a Marin Bayview 24" from Sport Chalet for my daughter. It is pretty lightweight, I think it is under 25lbs but have yet to confirm. Frame is decent, components are mediocre but should be fine for light to medium use. Sport Chalet assembly quality is a different issue, misaligned rubbing brake pads, misaligned stem, brake cable adjustment barrels are almost all the way out, makes me feel like taking the whole thing apart and start from scratch.


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## dhoffroad (Oct 5, 2009)

Valdemar I just got the same bike for my daughter too.....according to Marin ( I emailed them) it weighs 27lbs. but I haven't put it on the scale yet .


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

quasi888 said:


> Every 20" multigeared MTB I have come across has been in the 25-lb range or more.


Giant XtC Jr 20 was 22lb out of the box.. Even a few relatively inexpensive upgrades (handlebar, seatpost (27.2), Sora derailler, Sinz BB) dropped almost a pound. But it is a full rigid - which seems to be just fine in 20" size and with decent tires (Kenda SB8)


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

Curmy said:


> Giant XtC Jr 20 was 22lb out of the box.. Even a few relatively inexpensive upgrades (handlebar, seatpost (27.2), Sora derailler, Sinz BB) dropped almost a pound. But it is a full rigid - which seems to be just fine in 20" size and with decent tires (Kenda SB8)


Does it have gears in the front and a suspension fork? Those things can make a 2-3 lbs difference easily especially with the low-end components that what typically kids bikes get.


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

dhoffroad said:


> Valdemar I just got the same bike for my daughter too.....according to Marin ( I emailed them) it weighs 27lbs. but I haven't put it on the scale yet .


I did finally put it on scales, 27lbs is about right...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Valdemar said:


> Does it have gears in the front and a suspension fork? Those things can make a 2-3 lbs difference easily especially with the low-end components that what typically kids bikes get.


Full rigid -> no suspension fork. No front gears as well. I think both are not needed on 20" - lower weight and complexity are much more important.

Notice that Scott also got rid of front derailleur on some 2010 20" models (Contessa, Voltage).

I plan on getting rear wheel with a freehub (probably one from Dahon folder), and upgrading to 9sp cassette and twist shifter). I have switched front to 36t from 38t. With 11-32 cassette it should cover better range ten stock 14-28 7-speed freewheel, and weight much less. need to find some short cage 9-sp compatible derailleur cheap, better SRAM, so I can run X7 shifters.. Will be nicely under 20lb there.. Every pound off the bike for a 45lb girl - is like 5lb off my bike.


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

Curmy said:


> Full rigid -> no suspension fork. No front gears as well. I think both are not needed on 20" - lower weight and complexity are much more important.
> 
> Notice that Scott also got rid of front derailleur on some 2010 20" models (Contessa, Voltage).


While I may agree that you can do ok w/o the fork I'm not so sure about the single gear in front. I'm riding with my 8yo daughter and she can spin easily but she gives up quickly whenever it takes an extra effort such as when going in high gear uphill. Also if we are not talking races here or epic rides with lots of climbing, I don't think that extra 2-3 lbs of weight add that much of a difference.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Valdemar said:


> While I may agree that you can do ok w/o the fork I'm not so sure about the single gear in front. I'm riding with my 8yo daughter and she can spin easily but she gives up quickly whenever it takes an extra effort such as when going in high gear uphill. Also if we are not talking races here or epic rides with lots of climbing, I don't think that extra 2-3 lbs of weight add that much of a difference.


20" Scott with front gears has 34 x 42 crankset, and 14-28 7sp rear - 247% range. Since I have planned to upgrade to a 9sp wheel anyway, 36t with 11-32 rear gives a much bigger range - 290%, easier to handle and weights less, and much less confusing for a 5 - 6 year old to figure out..

Hard for me to tell, as I am not a 45lb girl, but I have assumed that 2-3 lb is quite important for her to enjoy riding - as it makes it much easier to handle, including pushing it occasionally.

I guess once


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

Your math is right given the original configuration is 2 rings, not only the range is wider but the lowest gear is also lower so it is good. I think my mistake was that I was thinking 3 gears in front which is what my daughter has and even with 24/28 - 24" wheels granny/largest sprocket combination should give ~10% more leverage than 36/32 with 20".


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## paddler28 (Apr 4, 2010)

*Light yes, BUT full suspension or hard tail 24"?*

Hi all. I agree with everyone that the lighter the better and will go a scott 24 inch either spark or scale very soon. 
My biggest dilemma is I'm not sure whether to go hard tail or not. I ride with a mate who used to race BMX's and who is now a great MTB rider, and he has seen my nearly 8 yr old in action. He suggested going the hard tail to get the lightest weight and reckoned that it makes them learn their skills better than the full suspension. My husband reckons our son is "lazy" like him regarding learning skills and it is better for the boy to be on a hard tail. Just I know how much more I enjoyed the ride once chasing everyone on a full suspension and even for a novice adult rider would always suggest full suspension if they were keen on riding more advanced trails.
We do ride whenever we can and my boy can already ride 13km (?8miles) on grade 2-3 trails so he is a keen little rider.

Any thoughts everyone?


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## Valdemar (Jun 20, 2005)

Start him on HT, less weight, more efficiency, better skills in the long run, better on pavement. As for enjoyment from the ride it is all very subjective, and comfort is not necessarily fun.


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## paddler28 (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks, thats 3 votes hard tail, one vote soft.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

I vote hardtail (and I voted full rigid in a smaller size). Kids are robust.  Nice light tires (like Small BLock 8 foldable in 24x2.1) will provide enough cushion.
I think being able to easily handle the bike around is more important. Suspension is not as effective at those size anyway.


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## beece (Apr 17, 2006)

Many of the compoenents scale down, so you can go pretty light if you want.

My son has a 20" Jamis. Using the spare parts I had lying around the garage, I replaced most of the stuff on the bike. Raceface BB, XTR v-brakes, XT levers, old dura ace hubs (so that I could have QRs on the wheels), 9 speed SRAM rear cluster, SRAM x9 rear der and right hand grip shift, marin stem, riser bars, thomson post, bmx seat, new rubber. Only thing stock is the crank, shock, headset and frame. 22 pounds.

Now I need a good 24" frame to do the same thing to - time for the next size up. I have a Diamondback Octane and a Scott Voltage as options - anybody know if those frames are light? I'm thnking of useing a Rockshox Judy 26" 65mm shock on the front witha 24" disc wheel. Anybody tried that?


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## bmxadian (Apr 17, 2010)

I have to vote full suspension.
My son has a 20" norco ( actually a razor I think, with norco decals), it has an alu frame, which makes it quite a bit lighter than the sportmart types. The rear shock was crap, even though it's a kids bike, it was just all spring, so I took one off of another cheap kids f/s bike, but the fork is actually pretty good, it took a while to break in, but it seems to work ok?. The rest of the components were pretty bad though. I had to go to my parts bin for him as well. The totally redundant 2 chainring combo had to go, I think it was a 38t, & a 40t or something, mounted to cast iron crank arms, & bb spindle. I took an old set of kooka cranks, drilled, and re-tapped them at 155mm, and he runs a 22t, and a 32t, and an old 103mm ti race face sq taper bb. Then a nice set of magura's, shimano 600 ders, grip shift, and a nice alu bar/stem/seat post. It doesn't seem that light, although he has several bikes ( way to many for a 7 yro), and he prefers the f/s for trail riding hands down. When in the 22t, he can just sit and spin up any climb, even if rooty, or somewhat bumpy. He definetly does not spin out the 32-12, and I think I have measured him topping out at around 25km/hr, on road. I'll tell ya, when he bangs it into the big gear, puts his head down, and starts hammering, it sure looks cool.


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## paddler28 (Apr 4, 2010)

bmxadian said:


> I have to vote full suspension.
> My son has a 20" norco ( actually a razor I think, with norco decals), it has an alu frame, which makes it quite a bit lighter than the sportmart types. The rear shock was crap, even though it's a kids bike, it was just all spring, so I took one off of another cheap kids f/s bike, but the fork is actually pretty good, it took a while to break in, but it seems to work ok?. The rest of the components were pretty bad though. I had to go to my parts bin for him as well. The totally redundant 2 chainring combo had to go, I think it was a 38t, & a 40t or something, mounted to cast iron crank arms, & bb spindle. I took an old set of kooka cranks, drilled, and re-tapped them at 155mm, and he runs a 22t, and a 32t, and an old 103mm ti race face sq taper bb. Then a nice set of magura's, shimano 600 ders, grip shift, and a nice alu bar/stem/seat post. It doesn't seem that light, although he has several bikes ( way to many for a 7 yro), and he prefers the f/s for trail riding hands down. When in the 22t, he can just sit and spin up any climb, even if rooty, or somewhat bumpy. He definetly does not spin out the 32-12, and I think I have measured him topping out at around 25km/hr, on road. I'll tell ya, when he bangs it into the big gear, puts his head down, and starts hammering, it sure looks cool.


Thanks for that. I keep swaying between FS and hard tail. Saw a very cool utube clip that was on the 24inch build forum link and started being swayed back to hard tail. The skills these kids had were amazing. In the meantime I am off to try and get some SINZ cranks and ring to try and make a workable lightweight crankset. Great advice on the parts you used. I still have to wait until I know if New Zealand is getting any Scotts in this year, then I can start building up the 24" bike. Thanks heaps.


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## dd61999 (Aug 5, 2008)

My 9 year old son and his best friends started out on kids mountain bikes. But they were to heavy and never bothered using the gears, no matter how many times I tried to teach them.

I decided to get them lightweight single speed redline racing bikes that weigh 14-16 pounds. They rip up the trails now and have very little problems going uphills.Matter of fact they have passed some adults on the trails from time to time It was the best investment I ever made. It has inspired me to go single speed.

People criticize BMX for being single speeds, wrong geometry, no suspension,etc...... But kids are different from adults and they adapt very well.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

My 7yr. old son loves gears and uses them very well. Not only are kids different from adults, but they are different from each other.


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## texacajun (Jan 20, 2004)

Yep, mine just turned 6 and she's starting to get the shifting thing. Usually it's me shouting out what number she wants to be in, but she is slowly but surely learning she can spin up instead of standing & then stopping halfway up. 

BTW, anybody every take apart one of those Shimano Revo shifters? I'm thinking I might be able to sand down the pauls in it and make it shift a little easier. It's got a lot of drag. May just need re-cabling but I'm thinking I can reduce the friction somewhat more.


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## paddler28 (Apr 4, 2010)

texacajun said:


> Yep, mine just turned 6 and she's starting to get the shifting thing. Usually it's me shouting out what number she wants to be in, but she is slowly but surely learning she can spin up instead of standing & then stopping halfway up.
> 
> BTW, anybody every take apart one of those Shimano Revo shifters? I'm thinking I might be able to sand down the pauls in it and make it shift a little easier. It's got a lot of drag. May just need re-cabling but I'm thinking I can reduce the friction somewhat more.


Haven't taken the shifter apart...... yet. I just changed the rear deraileur to a shimano Deore, and my nearly 8 year old found he couldn't change gears as it was tooo hard. I will be back at the shop tomorrow and try and work out if it is derailleur, cables or what. Probably will mean a derailleur change or trying to change the spring inside it to reduce the tension. Oh the fun of trying to get them riding light weight. In saying that my boy loves the other changes, with even a kilo in weight loss off the bike and he is getting up hills he has never got up before.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Grip shifts work well for kids.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Grip shifts work well for kids.


That is the conventional wisdom, but I am debating it at the moment - waiting for parts to convert 20" XtC to 9sp. My daughter can not downshift 7sp SRAM right now - but she easily handles XTR shifter on my bike - though it does not have gear indicator which may be useful. So I am not sure whether to do X9 grip/X7 short cage combo, or give her XT from one bike I have (as an excuse to get 10sp when it comes out) along with medium cage SLX..


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## paddler28 (Apr 4, 2010)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Grip shifts work well for kids.


Are you running a sram or a shimano twist grip?


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## tribesman (Feb 4, 2008)

we are running x9 shiffter pods with x9 mechs ,brakes are avid 5 's this set up has been great for my 10 y old daughter with small hands she runs a 1x9 with 32 front ring 34/11 with a 24inch wheel set ,had the shock and fork tuned to her weight and running lighter fork oil ,she smashes this set up almost any where.


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## JimEG (Aug 19, 2009)

Saw the Lil' Shredder bikes at Sea Otter. Anything else new out there in the world of light weight kids mountain bikes? Looking for a single speed(or geared I could convert) with 20" wheels.


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## cmprobert (Jun 20, 2010)

Thought I would share the bike I just built up for my daughter:

Custom build 24" Kids bike.


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## Mendne (Dec 28, 2018)

cmprobert said:


> Thought I would share the bike I just built up for my daughter:
> 
> Custom build 24" Kids bike.


I had the same frustration so designed a custom titanium bike made in China, a big wheel 24", ie 26" similiar to the 29er principle. $850USD for the frame plus shipping and taxes. Email me if your interested, VIVUS CYCLES


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## BikePilot1 (May 15, 2006)

I built a flow frame up into a 16lbs bike. I think all the complete bikes for sale are in the 20lbs plus range.









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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