# Avalanche boxxer Cartridge upgrade kit out! Will fit majority of forks!



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Well its been a while for Craig to put out some items and anyone that knows him also knows unless its over engineered and full proof its not good! 
Just thought it was kind of a cool upgrade, we just had a 5th element done by him and came in today so well be putting it on the bullit and proceeding to beat the H#!! out of it now and run it ragged.

Anyhow it caught me off guard I know hes been working on stuff for a while and my kid has a earlier 888 and wanted to know when. 
-The kit will fit almost any of the forks, he will have upgrade adapter kits for the cartridge to fit different forks so if you have a boxxer now and go 888 next season no big deal buy the adapter kit and swap it in, sell off the old adapter kit.

Pretty cool I dont know a whole lot aside of the basics I called and he was really busy, I did get that for the first little bit its a install they will be doing inhouse. Send it in and theyll retrofit it send it back and go play!!! Then it will go to a kit where you can buy it, install it and go ride. There will apparently be a video and tutorial on how to install with every cartridge sent out.

This is the basics of what i gathered so far:
1- it will fit into a majority of forks so its interchangeable (between fox, 888, boxxer etc as an example) with a upgrade adapter kit.

2- It will have a upgradeable tune kit with shims and an instruction book on how to do it yourself and what starter settings or shims for different terrain and basics so you can do it.

3- It will be well engineered! 

4- it will be $399 to start then drop once its fully user installable

5- It will have flat head screw adjustments as it keeps the knobs from protruding under the fork like a 40 or boxxer

6- There will be a knob upgrade available if you want knobs instead of the flat head adjuster.

Aside of that Im not too sure its just something I noticed got updated today and thought that after it craig working on it for so long its kind of a cool thing!

https://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/AVA Advantage Cart Kit.htm


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## The Dude (Jan 19, 2004)

damn. they need to make one for the 36 now


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I went on the site yesterday to look for this and there was nothing, funny that it is up today. 

I am sure this is a top notch product. Now I wish i didn't just buy the push upgrade for my boxxer.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Craig told me 888s will be out next month. Post a review after some saddle time!

BTW, is it me or is there a piece missing in the actual photos when compared to the CAD renderings...an inner tube from the rebound piston to the base compression piston?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

No theres another peice Craig just snapped some pics to get it under way.
Im pretty excited to see him getting things out there in an aftermarket upgrade fashion, mans got the knowledge. Use someones platform and make it better for a small cost!
Good for him...


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## COLIN M (Mar 26, 2009)

CRAIG, is the man always great products. I have AVY front and rear on my LUCKY and can say his stuff is TOP NOTCH and has always hooked me up. I broke a TI MODEL and he built me a better fork for a great deal great customer service and custom tuned to your riding gotta give props to CRAIG....


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

*This might be a stupid question*

Will it work for boxxer world cups? or is it just for the coil versions.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

make it for de totem and 36


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

The Dude said:


> damn. they need to make one for the 36 now


Agreed. Push is great, and no jab at them, but I'd like to be able to install their parts myself, but again, it's no jab to them to not offer that.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Looking at the photos of these bits in comparison to the BOS cartridge...it's another animal! When I took apart Hacktastic's old fork to look at the BOS, it's very nice and clean. But I'm liking the looks of this, A LOT! And if Craig's going to give the end user the knowledge on how to shim this thing w/ the optional kit, I'm in! $299 for the DIY kit...deal! 
The BOS will stay in the '07 WC, but I want one for me '08/'10 888 WC


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

OK so theres a page dedicated to the AVA program and prices with details and models. APparently it will be updated with new trechnology as it comes up and all the good stuff we need to know.

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/AVA ADV.htm


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Update:
DHX's are being done soon with a adjuster that fits where the propedal was so no custom peices needed and if it fit before it will fit back on the bike again. It makes it a true speed sensative setup.
Boxxer Hi speed mod gives more seperation between the influence of hi and lo speed adjustments as well as makes it really plush (I have this one now)
and alot of other stuff coming....

Boxxer adpater kits for pre 2010 are out along with the cartridge and being installed already. 2010 adapter kit is schedueled for this month Ill have one as soon as its available. Hell a boxxer that feels like an avy and ONLY 60-70grams more than stock, minus a little oil and that # goes down to almost an even match...

New bits on the canfield:
Ordered a Hi speed mod for the Boxxer, it feels more plush I added a smidge more air as it flows better now. It also makes less influence between when you adjust the hi speed and the low speed. They are more seperate now. Also ordered a Woddie with light valving, hi/lo speed comp adjuster and 450 ti spring. Got a bit of riding on it today and the thing is amazing....Its been a while since I had a buttery smooth endless feel that floats this well.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Who makes the boxxer upgrade thats pictured, because I just got my boxxer back from avalanche and the cartridge upgrade looks nothing like that. Then again my boxxer is an 2008 model.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Tree said:


> Who makes the boxxer upgrade thats pictured, because I just got my boxxer back from avalanche and the cartridge upgrade looks nothing like that. Then again my boxxer is an 2008 model.


Thats because you have the flagship cartridge upgrade I only have the hi/lo speed mod. I am getting the cartridge like you as soon as he has the adapters available for the 2010 boxxer.

The Hi speed mod made a hell of a difference in the rocks today NO packing at all it was a tottaly different fork. The rear woodie kicked @$$ man it mowed the rocks log bars double jumps and drops like a joke. TOTALY SMOOOOOTH......

Amazing what tuned suspension can do.

We had 1 guy drop his fron on a 7' ladder went over landed on his front wheel chest to basrs and flew down the tranny to the bottom. Id say a good 12' to face and back.... :eekster: I killed it so Im happy but shep is pretty wrecked....


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Update and review as well as update to Sheps injury:
Shock was amazing literally, the fork was a HUGE improvement and the bike was so well balanced between the front and rear it was a complete blast to ride. It literally was like a new bike.

OK got some drops, rocks, jumps, berms, single track etc out of the way this weekend TONS of riding and barely needed to dial it in.
First the fork was incredible the Mod made it stupid plush, I did need to add a little rebound off the double and jumps I was front end high and with 15-20 mph winds it was blowing me sideways ontop of that which was intresting in itself. So I added a smidge of low speed and upped the comp a little bit and that was it, it leveled and flew even off everything from there on out.
Rocks:
Front end was quiet no chattering zero packing like before, it tracked absolutely smooth. It handled the drops into the rocks at full speed and I overshot the double at the bottom by ALOT and flat bottomed way past it and the fork was butter completely smooth didnt bottom out and soaked it up. It still handled the chatter and the small bump absorbtion was flawless....
Jumps:
It handled the jumps like before but was alot smoother through the stroke and didnt have that dry feeling like before it was plush. Not too much difference aside of the smooth handling, jumps and trannys are basic on most forks.
Corners:
It tracked the berms spot on and the chatter in them didnt cause it to wash out like before as a matter of fact I dont realy remember hitting them it was smooth at speed and no lack of control the front end just smoothed it out. Corners again are corners but its the chatter and the rocks in there I couldnt quite get the front to play nice with so that was the big improvement with it. It stayed the course but the dampening was alot more precise and worked better between the hi and low speed and its probably the fact he seperates the influence of them on each other with the mod.. 
So it cornered alot better with the front tracking better and not bouncing all over. The good part is I could run a bit more rebund and the dampening slowed the front end down so there was no fast return poping from lack of rebound. It was a really evened out effect.
Drops:
Not too much to say here it always performed good on those so that was never the issue. (obviousley the rear was really NICE and plush)
Rear shock:
The front matches the rear shock extremely well they are both absolutely butter, the bike was almost silent going through the rocks and literally I was blowing the corner at speed and dropping the railroad tie drops off into the rockgarden without slowing down at all and not once did I feel the front or rear get unstable as a matter of fact the faster I went the smoother and more in control it was....
Overall it was a good day I did need to adjust the dials a little bit but it rode like a completley different bike and not just the rear the front acted like a totally different fork altogether. The Mod definently opens up the boxxers potential and makes it ride a hell of a lot better than before...

*OK to Shep: 2 compound fractures in the back and busted sternum. OUCH!*


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

I came here for the Avy reports, but DAMN!

Your friend had 2 vertabrae sticking out of his skin!!! Or do you mean 2 back ribs sticking out?
Either way, That must have been one gruesome sight.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

LOL no busted his sternum in half and 2 compression fractures, nose dove a ladder drop..

So the avalanche cartridge kit is now available as a do it yourself install kit and the price is $299. Just ordered mine yesterday, Ill be sticking it in my 32mm boxxer till the 35mm adapters are available shortly then it will go in the new 2010 wc.....


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

*Wanted to give a quick update*

I have a few rides on my 08 Boxxer world cup with the new Avalanche cartridge and I must say that it is incredible. 
I can use a much lower air pressure without the fork bottoming. I"m about 175 - 180lbs with gear and I used to run about 100psi and now I'm running 70-80 psi and getting full travel without a harsh bottom out. I haven't played with the high speed compression at all. Craig from Avalanche said that he has it set at half way and it feels just right for my riding abilities.
If I experience any bottom out I'll give it a click or two.
Mid stroke feels very controlled and smooth without wallowing. Beginning stroke is very soft and supple, maybe too soft ,but I like how it eats the small to medium stuff while transitioning to a very smooth and linear mid stroke.

All in all a very worthy upgrade in a suffering economy. Very pleased. 
I'm not regretting not buying a new fork at all.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Tree said:


> I have a few rides on my 08 Boxxer world cup with the new Avalanche cartridge and I must say that it is incredible.
> I can use a much lower air pressure without the fork bottoming. I"m about 175 - 180lbs with gear and I used to run about 100psi and now I'm running 70-80 psi and getting full travel without a harsh bottom out. I haven't played with the high speed compression at all. Craig from Avalanche said that he has it set at half way and it feels just right for my riding abilities.
> If I experience any bottom out I'll give it a click or two.
> Mid stroke feels very controlled and smooth without wallowing. Beginning stroke is very soft and supple, maybe too soft ,but I like how it eats the small to medium stuff while transitioning to a very smooth and linear mid stroke.
> ...


thats good to hear mine should br here in a week or so Im pretty excited to give it a run. ll be in Slocal for a couple of weeks so I wont get to play with it right off the bat but shorttly...

Whats the weight???

Pics of the first posted avy bxr please....


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

So they're now available for 2008+ 888s as a DIY install?

I'm gonna get it regardless but out of curiosity, do you think it will weight more (lots of aluminum) or less (less oil maybe) than the stock 2008 RC3 damper?


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

i want order for my 2010 race a 35mm boxxer kartridge kitt but sincne times there are not available!


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

I can't really comment on the weight to much. From what I'm told mine was the first of a few installed and Craig did the install so I never had the cartridge in my hand.
I'm sure it added a little weight to the fork. It felt a little heavier when I took it out of the box but nothing crazy.140cc's of oil ( I think thats what he said) and an aluminum cartridge minus the old cartridge and stock parts. Not that big of a difference.
The performance overides any weight penalty in my eyes.

Let me know what you think after a few rides.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

the 35mm adapters are being worked on right now, Craig had 2 of 5 peices early last week and closing in on all 5 REAL shortly....
888s are next in line from what I understand as he has the FOX DHX stuff already lined up and in que.. So now people with the DHXs (shocks) can get it race tuned with a hi lo speed comp adapter and speed sensative like the avys...


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

i hope this thing goes in 888 ATAs, otherwise i guess ill have to get a new fork ..


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Sounds like it will (fit 888 ATA) but not till after they make the new Boxxer adapters.

My 2008 ATA is getting butted stanchions, Ti bolts, and this damper. It's gonna be the best possible fork for my use.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Yeah www.discountedcycling.com is carrying the dampers now as well so Craig has started distribution as well... They are finally flowing out in the market place and I know of 4 being used in Washington state as well as another back east to great success, Ive talked to 2 of the guys about it and they cant say enough. Apparently its bottoming is incredible as well as the tracking is spot on and gives new meaning to absolute buttery and smooth.

I just want it in so I can beat it ride it and give a highlight of how it works from freeride to racing and anything I can throw in its way.... 
Ill let it sit here till the adapters are made for the boxxer 35mm, possibly just throw the 32mm on andrun it... I will post pics Im doing the self install kit so I will get all the goods from opening to ease of install and riding...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I have to tear down my 888 in 2 weeks to rebuild the ATA and install the butted legs so it would be great if this is available by then.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Craig's response to my email about 38mm 888:

It is being prototyped right now, testing will be done next week.

We have had a lot of e-mails and calls but no one seems interested enough 
for us to go ahead with the kits for the 38 marz 888, we have held up production 
until we get at least 40-50 "definites" e-mails, if we reach this level of interest by the end of June then we will produce them.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Edit: followup

This could change any day now, I don't want the alarm the world if it does not happen this way _(prob. meant I shouldn't have
posted this email... but I'm thinking we could concentrate the interest for the 888 and give Craig a better clue on demand)_. 
We are hand making parts to do testing, just finished the 2010 Boxxer this weekend, working on the 38 mm Marz this week. 
So we need to get a serious level of interest up out there, not window shoppers. This is a large project that involves 10 of 
thousands of dollars for each kit. If we only sell 10 or 20 kits for each fork then we will go out of business!!


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

I will have pics, weights and review hopefully end of next week when I get back from california. Im planning on having it shipped to me there and Ill beat the snot out of it on the old stomping grounds... 
I figure thats the best possible scenario to really push it, from fast and flowy to choppy rutted out rocks, blown corners, drops and jumps. Go session the elsinore side of things and a few others... I really want to get it in alot of different terrain to see the extent of it and the capacity of tuning it for the different variables and temps.. Its 55 degrees here and back home and then go inland its supposed to hit 100 (Elsinore) so thats a good temp to see what the fade is like on bigger runs....


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

on the 888, i got the exact same email, i signed up for wanting one..

i hope others do as well


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Sent a 888 email to Avalanche.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Thats the plan, hed like to know theres intrest in it that will put it to the top of the tier based on intrest... 
The 32mm boxxers are ready and people ask for the 35mm so hes working on the 35s and let the people speak for it then the demand will trickle down to the 32s... He tried to make the 32s for the majority then the 35mm guys would wait but apparently the guys with the latest and greeatest want it right now and then the 32mm guys will catch on when they realize they can have a 32 that feels like some avy popped 35... 

Yes intrest and lets get it done will help it transpire the product Craig has a substantial investment already invested with no open POs he did this out of pocket and has the cartridges ready to go, and he is working on the adapters diligently as well as other parts too... 
The cartridges are a real product and trickling into the market already Im really surprised theres not alot more of the 32 kits out there.. I know there are several Washington and Oregon bound and installed as well as east coast and next week west coast so they are going but Id have figured us onliners would be the ones to get it and start reviewing and riding... Ill have time this Saturday on it in Slocal so Ill get pics and review thouroughly the initial ride on ALOT of different terrain adjustments and weights...


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## sikocycles (Oct 10, 2005)

I am coming off a MTN 8 and just rode my Boxxer team for the first time. Kind of felt like poop compared to my AVY. Still need to break it in and dial it but it beat the crap out of me compared to my Avy.
I used to run a DHF and that was a great fork. Too bad I sold it.
I would be interested in a 35mm boxxer kit. 
I have already emailed him on it.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

I like my 2010 WC it was great, had a few issues, did the hi speed mod and it really opened it up felt really good then I rode Joshs DHF and yeah it left me wanting when I got back on the WC...
Getting beat up is the exact feeling when I got back on the WC its way more plush than stock and really is butter compared to what it is but still behind (quite aways behind) the feel of a Avy fork. 
Im not knocking the WC I really like it with the hi speed mod that made a WORLD of difference and if I didnt have a DHF to compare it to on a weekly basis Id be better off. Its hard when you have a stock ferrari and your buddy has one built for racing.... Your happy till the side by side.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

end user on what shims to use and how to use them for different terrain is insane


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> end user on what shims to use and how to use them for different terrain is insane


There was a part of the email where Craig addressed some specific questions I had for him, and one was related to the shimming. I'll keep you posted w/ what he sends me. 
It's not rocket surgery but w/o some guidance (a primer), the trial/error time of, "re-inventing the wheel," would be entirely too long and inane!

I looking into shimming a bit and found that most are using software to match fluid to shim combos to achieve the desired suspension curve. But, having no clue on what curve is best for any given trail condition and/or riding style as a point of reference...again, back to that guidance point.

...and I thought building wheels was _the_ black art


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> There was a part of the email where Craig addressed some specific questions I had for him, and one was related to the shimming. I'll keep you posted w/ what he sends me.
> It's not rocket surgery but w/o some guidance (a primer), the trial/error time of, "re-inventing the wheel," would be entirely too long and inane!
> 
> I looking into shimming a bit and found that most are using software to match fluid to shim combos to achieve the desired suspension curve. But, having no clue on what curve is best for any given trail condition and/or riding style as a point of reference...again, back to that guidance point.
> ...


Craigs coming up with a how to guide or basic understanding guide and different terrrains / different valving if you choose to help out and make people that want to tune the opportunity to have some basics and help so they can get started... I think the basic valving backed with craigs experience will be such a huge starting point that it may require a tweak or 2 but will be a smokin hot start...

He went and lightly valved my woodie for the Jedi and its so much better than the front now its disgusting it is literally spot on... Craig said to trust him he researched got back to me and when I got the shock it is DIALED there is not a thing Id change it tracks amazing and suple the whole way.... Usually we go back and forth a bit to describe terrain weight etc... This time Craig just said dont worry Ill dial it in and tell me what you think...

Been right so far Ill start where he suggests and dial from there...
:thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

35mm Boxxer protorype in 2010 WC
Out riding todayso Ill have feedback tonight and riding tomorrow with the Foes guys and have some solid feedback after this weekend.. Damn I love Socal! :thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

OK so the first thing It took it apart and looked at the machine work and went over it plus the reassembley to see how easy it really is to install and its SUPER easy.... Oil height is 245ccs 85/??? golden spectro synthetic (light anti foam and approx 3wt).
athe compression is on the bottom of the leg and the rebound is on the top and WORK GREAT....... The whole assembley is so well designed and easy to install its nice, the whole feel of the cartridge is amazing from start to finish....

I took it out today for the first ride and we had speed, loose caorners, bermed corners, rocks, ruts, tight single track with TONS of dollheads, rock outcroppings, TONS of BIG rain ruts etc.... Its fast real fast and exposed basically hammer down and go for it... Theres corners on big rocks and chunky terrain that have corners down to other chutes etc...

1: Cornering- This fork was consistant top to bottom light and loaded through the corners there were little to no chatter feel and it not once washed out due to lack of damping and control wether it was at the top or mid stroke.... It literally cornered amazing.

2: Rocks- It blew through the rocks without ANY harsh hits, it was incredible railing and was even smoother at speed the faster you went the better it got......

3: overall- The thing felt a bit slow (parking lot test) when messing around so I backed out the adjustments a little and it felt buttery at any adjustment. It does not have that light dry feel like the boxxer did and definently not like the Fox 40. It is as light as the original setup and will lighten up a bit when the production caps are done for the adapter. It did not wallow at all and the damping was consistent no matter where I was in travel so it didnt matter if I was high in it or loaded it reacted the same so my style could stay the ssame without adjusting.
I do not miss the high speed adjuster as this is should stay with the valving and be fine tuned by the low speed. I can honestly say that I have had forks with hi and lo comp and this SMOKES them by a long shot... Completely destroyed what the boxxer WC felt like in action...
I came in hot into ruts and did not get the play in the forks action like before allowing me to maintain the line as well as did load the front end into ruts on purpose (bigger ruts) to see if it slammed me and caused spiking at speed and None it literally and evenly took the hit and felt completely bottomless.
Im running 65psi and did not bottom it out, the hydraulic bottom out did its job spot on. Took the hit and slowwed the shaft speed down with no harsh hit or bad ramping...

Now the bad and this is literally the only complaint I have3 which has been addressed when I called Craig tonight he already said it before I asked...
The compression knob is hard to set without a screw driver so he is testing adjusters with a EPS foam crush zone to prevent internal damage incase of a strike so you can replace it and not the internals should a lowley rock decide to befriend it.
Also he is doing mid strok damping which will not effect the compression what it will do is keep the front end from any brake dive or load up on the ace of big jumps in nastier terrain not so much hard pack smooth cali stuff.

So all in all I was completely floored by this cartridge, I expected good but I did not expect it to feel that much better than the WC it was kind of depressing but exciting at the same time... It was way more plush than my 888 ATA ever was and the small bump on this fork will be legendary. It literally felt like a DHF but at boxxer wc weight.

Now with the air fork it performed flawless it made it consistent even when the air ramped up a smidge I did not turn the bottom out on as its not needed with the hydraulic bottom out so you can run a bit less air as well because it will take care of you.

Bottom line is this thing is literally a monster its smoother then my 888s and definently gives my boxxer wc a beat down... 
It will make you faster as control and consistency is there. The Boxxer WC hi speed mod was a huge improvement over stock and I was happy but I will not be going back to stock internals.... I will be on this cartridge no matter what fork chasis I ride.

OK sorry for the dark pictures.... It was down to 80 so good for riding but gteting a bit dark.

This one I tried to triple the jump and came in a bit short.

















This was just a small step down I was overshooting it on purpose to just plain beat the hell outa the fork....
BTW DID not bottom on any of the landings I nailed all of them and these were the ones that I came in hard for demo..........


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

You say you didn't bottom, but did you measure your travel o-ring after? Close to 200mm?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

I did, it seems to be coming in 1/2" shy and would if I slammed SUPER hard Im sure... Craigs kit allows it to go to a full 203mm....


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

*Darn it BC!!!*

Man awesome write up, thanks :thumbsup: I have wanted an Avy for over a year but was always told I was too light and the Avy was basically an over damped moto shock. I have been talking to Craig the last two days and guess what I am getting? :lol: Craig said he has the Jedi dialed in for the Avy and my LBS will not be an issue now. I will be looking into the fork upgrade as well, thanks for the info on that to.

Man I can not wait, thanks BC

Oh and your Jedi is DOPE!!!!


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Did you dump that stupid drop stop from the fork? 

I am on the e-mail list for when the 35mm hit. I will be ordering one ASAP.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Right....drop stop...you don't have it...it's a WC


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

supramk388 said:


> Man awesome write up, thanks :thumbsup: I have wanted an Avy for over a year but was always told I was too light and the Avy was basically an over damped moto shock. I have been talking to Craig the last two days and guess what I am getting? :lol: Craig said he has the Jedi dialed in for the Avy and my LBS will not be an issue now. I will be looking into the fork upgrade as well, thanks for the info on that to.
> 
> Man I can not wait, thanks BC
> 
> Oh and your Jedi is DOPE!!!!


Yeah its SUPER plush and doesnt have bottoming issues even as soft as Im running the suspension which is pretty damn slick... Mike rode it today he weights 140 and Im 235 so My settings are a bit much for most usually the fork was butter smooth even with his weight and I run the air 65psi even at my weight so its supple. He liked it as it sat and has rode with me several times so he is aware I slam stuff and hammer lines... He was really surprised I run it that soft he assumed I rode it stiffer to compensate flatsand big rocks etc... No need the suspension is so evenly matched front and rear now....

Congratts on the Avy for the Jedi its HUGE as far as improvement on that bike... Craig has the valving dialed for the ratio... Dom is LOVIN his, hes pretty floored at how well it works on everything and consistant.... Congrats man keep me updated Im curious to see what you think.... Itis BETTER than the Roco WC air was by a long shot its like a whole pocket of perfection from top to bottom...


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

*Well BC... *



bullcrew said:


> Yeah its SUPER plush and doesnt have bottoming issues even as soft as Im running the suspension which is pretty damn slick... Mike rode it today he weights 140 and Im 235 so My settings are a bit much for most usually the fork was butter smooth even with his weight and I run the air 65psi even at my weight so its supple. He liked it as it sat and has rode with me several times so he is aware I slam stuff and hammer lines... He was really surprised I run it that soft he assumed I rode it stiffer to compensate flatsand big rocks etc... No need the suspension is so evenly matched front and rear now....
> 
> Congratts on the Avy for the Jedi its HUGE as far as improvement on that bike... Craig has the valving dialed for the ratio... Dom is LOVIN his, hes pretty floored at how well it works on everything and consistant.... Congrats man keep me updated Im curious to see what you think.... Itis BETTER than the Roco WC air was by a long shot its like a whole pocket of perfection from top to bottom...


Awesome BC, thanks again man. Yeah Craig has been super cool and I am looking forward to the new suspension updates. My rear is in the Q and I should have the fork upgrade by Friday :thumbsup:

I have a few more goodies to show you but I will post in the Canfield forum in a few days.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

D


supramk388 said:


> Awesome BC, thanks again man. Yeah Craig has been super cool and I am looking forward to the new suspension updates. My rear is in the Q and I should have the fork upgrade by Friday :thumbsup:
> 
> I have a few more goodies to show you but I will post in the Canfield forum in a few days.


Did you get the cartridge kit..... if so post a review so others get a idea of it


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

*ADAPTER KITS ARE IN AND FOR SALE MARZOCCHI 32MM, 35MM BOXXER 32MM, 35MM*
Installation instructions are on the site and eady as well as pics mauals etc it is now a fully lined product for Marzocchi stuff and Rockshox...

Direct from Craigs mouth "The 38mm MArzocchi feels absolutley AMAZING, WOW!" Apparently better seals and bushings. I can tell you the boxxer 35mm feels DAY and NIGHT different with the kit so I can only imagine the 888s... But mines lighter and a bit more nimble with a big attitude now so it may not be as buttery as the 888 but its alot more buttery than the other forks out and I wont be changing it any time soon... Im happier than $#!t with it.....

Pic is in this order
marzocchi 38mm 35mm BOXXER 35mm 32mm


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> *ADAPTER KITS ARE IN AND FOR SALE MARZOCCHI 32MM, 35MM BOXXER 32MM, 35MM*
> Installation instructions are on the site and eady as well as pics mauals etc it is now a fully lined product for Marzocchi stuff and Rockshox...
> 
> Direct from Craigs mouth "The 38mm MArzocchi feels absolutley AMAZING, WOW!" Apparently better seals and bushings. I can tell you the boxxer 35mm feels DAY and NIGHT different with the kit so I can only imagine the 888s... But mines lighter and a bit more nimble with a big attitude now so it may not be as buttery as the 888 but its alot more buttery than the other forks out and I wont be changing it any time soon... Im happier than $#!t with it.....
> ...


Woooo! Shinny bits!


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Woooo! Shinny bits!


Hell yes, shiny bits of goodness... BTW thanks P I think your post helped push the 888 boys to start chiming in emails to have them made and sped up the process.... So thanks even though I dont have an 888 its cool to see others able to rock the cart now.... Craig said it literally is amazing it that fork, Completely smoother than stock and an absolute BUTTER feel... Apparently better bushings and seals than Boxxer(hmm kinda figured MArz had that bit figured out)

My boxxer is amazing compared to a stock fork hell it took all the good aspects of the 40 (small bump and smooth) mixxed it with the tracking of a boxxer and smoother than the 888.. Its a rock SOLID fork now...+ added a hydraulic bump custom tune and open bath goodness with very little maintenance compared to all the rest... (except 888s which have been maintenance free for a long time ie open bath)


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Apparently better bushings and seals than Boxxer(hmm kinda figured MArz had that bit figured out)


But apparently not until 2010 w/ the tight slotted bushes. 
Anyway, SO can't wait till I get mine! I ordered mine on the 2nd w/ the midstroke installed (and I guess the left over bits for tweaking). A DHS 2 (hi/lo valve) on the rear, and a 888 w/ this cart up front...ooo yeah!

BC, did you have any issues w/ your Bxr in trying to get it to pop off of airs? CS told me he sets his tunes up for stuck to the ground feel. This is great for old skool resorts like Keystone w/ steep and gnar everywhere. But for more flow type of resorts like Trestle where getting a pop out of your suspension NOT at top speeds might be of value, stuck to the ground may result in not hitting the back sides of trannies (wow, that could be taken ENTIRELY wrong...haha), Anyway, just some feedback from you test piloting the 35mm Bxr.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> But apparently not until 2010 w/ the tight slotted bushes.
> Anyway, SO can't wait till I get mine! I ordered mine on the 2nd w/ the midstroke installed (and I guess the left over bits for tweaking). A DHS 2 (hi/lo valve) on the rear, and a 888 w/ this cart up front...ooo yeah!
> 
> BC, did you have any issues w/ your Bxr in trying to get it to pop off of airs? CS told me he sets his tunes up for stuck to the ground feel. This is great for old skool resorts like Keystone w/ steep and gnar everywhere. But for more flow type of resorts like Trestle where getting a pop out of your suspension NOT at top speeds might be of value, stuck to the ground may result in not hitting the back sides of trannies (wow, that could be taken ENTIRELY wrong...haha), Anyway, just some feedback from you test piloting the 35mm Bxr.


It stays stuck to the ground, if I want pop I slap a bit of air and reduce the rebound and it has plenty of pop. I mob and I have a bad habit of coming in way too hot and overshooting stuff not all but alot... So I tend to keep the pop to a minimum but I have put 20 psi more in rode the typical higher in travel boxxers like and reduced the rebound with a smidge of comp off as well for the higher PSI and it POPS...

Mid valve I am doing no questions asked not that I have alot of brake dive but the faces of jumps on most forks suffer from it and this takes it out of the equasion. It will also help with pop as it adds a bit of mid platform..


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> It stays stuck to the ground, if I want pop I slap a bit of air and reduce the rebound and it has plenty of pop. I mob and I have a bad habit of coming in way too hot and overshooting stuff not all but alot... So I tend to keep the pop to a minimum but I have put 20 psi more in rode the typical higher in travel boxxers like and reduced the rebound with a smidge of comp off as well for the higher PSI and it POPS...
> 
> Mid valve I am doing no questions asked not that I have alot of brake dive but the faces of jumps on most forks suffer from it and this takes it out of the equasion. It will also help with pop as it adds a bit of mid platform..


Good to know it won't take the fork into the over damped range :thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Good to know it won't take the fork into the over damped range :thumbsup:


The overdamped feel can be one of 2 things valving or lack of spring rate. Yes spring rate holds you were your supposed to be but if it doesnt ramp up enough (if a bit too light) then it wont have as much rebound force as a firmer spring. So light valving, with mid speed on compression side of piston and light valving on rebound will be suffice considering the golden spectro that Im using is 5 wt or just shy of (equivelant) and you can rely on the rebound adjuster or compression adjuster a bit more to tune it. So there has to be a happy medium . Its easier to valve a bit light and rely on adjusters than to valve too stiff and cant back adjusters out...

Mine pops though , I have a water run off here by the house that I slam the rocks are anywhere from 10" - 15" and they are all strewn out so theres no ground just rocks. I adjust and then slam through it, cant see the line with the descent from street too it so what rock you hit is luck of the draw. BUT it makes for a good place to tune for rock gardens and speed hits..... Also Snake bit the actuall tire LOL too low of pressure....

Back down the road pedal mid to fast and drop into it blind no brakes just lay back and pay attention to the bike and if its walking, this has been the best Ive found for fine tuning then pop a couple small drops and its good....


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BC, think I can bum a hand w/ a frankenfork project? I understand you're running a WC so no spring. But maybe you have buddies...?
Anyway, my RC3 cart will be freed up by the Avy cart for my '08 888. I want to slap that spare RC3 cart into a '06 (35mm) 888. But the 35mm 888s are dual sided spring config. Now, I suspect that the new 35mm Bxr's spring might fit the old 35mm 888s, but may require a bit of tweaking. I was wondering if you can take a measure of the 35mm Bxr's spring dimensions...OA length, ID and OD. If no, maybe take a measure of the ID of your WC's stanchion so I can compare it against the old 888 stanchions ID. Thanx in advance.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> BC, think I can bum a hand w/ a frankenfork project? I understand you're running a WC so no spring. But maybe you have buddies...?
> Anyway, my RC3 cart will be freed up by the Avy cart for my '08 888. I want to slap that spare RC3 cart into a '06 (35mm) 888. But the 35mm 888s are dual sided spring config. Now, I suspect that the new 35mm Bxr's spring might fit the old 35mm 888s, but may require a bit of tweaking. I was wondering if you can take a measure of the 35mm Bxr's spring dimensions...OA length, ID and OD. If no, maybe take a measure of the ID of your WC's stanchion so I can compare it against the old 888 stanchions ID. Thanx in advance.


Jerry has a spring or 2 around at hippietech Ill stop by and measure one. I need to take the avy stuff down so he can feel it anywase and see a cartridge... 
Ill try and get that today...


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Jerry has a spring or 2 around at hippietech Ill stop by and measure one. I need to take the avy stuff down so he can feel it anywase and see a cartridge...
> Ill try and get that today...


Not too much of a hurry on this. But w/ these Avy carts looming on the horizon, I can see a few ppl trying to recoup their cost by selling the RC3 cart. I just want to see if I can help out some ppl by trying to frankenfork the RC3 into the older chassis and using the Bxr spring to change the dual side to one side and bleed some more life out of the 35mm 888 chassis.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Not too much of a hurry on this. But w/ these Avy carts looming on the horizon, I can see a few ppl trying to recoup their cost by selling the RC3 cart. I just want to see if I can help out some ppl by trying to frankenfork the RC3 into the older chassis and using the Bxr spring to change the dual side to one side and bleed some more life out of the 35mm 888 chassis.


Hell they are selling out and shipping already! Craigs making more parts and pistons to keep up.

Ill get the measurements though Id be curious not something Id do but if your willing to try and frankefork Ill be the first to say customize/modify brother... I dig custom stuff....


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Hell they are selling out and shipping already! Craigs making more parts and pistons to keep up.
> 
> Ill get the measurements though Id be curious not something Id do but if your willing to try and frankefork Ill be the first to say customize/modify brother... I dig custom stuff....


Boooyeah! Mine's leaving CT tomorrow! The bad side: going on field assignment for two weeks :madman: 
Oh well, could be worse. Could be unemployed and unable to afford the cartridge


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Boooyeah! Mine's leaving CT tomorrow! The bad side: going on field assignment for two weeks :madman:
> Oh well, could be worse. Could be unemployed and unable to afford the cartridge


 very true. Congrats


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Bumpity bump
Round 2 of these carts should be arriving on ppl's door steps.
If anyone's got one in an 888, throw up a new thread on anything tricky w/ the install, and performance pre/post upgrade. Also, include the tune you ordered, your weight, your spring weight, riding style, terrain, and if the mid-stroke valve was added. Thanx!

Edit: oil wt & level would be good too. Where I ride, 220 - 230cc of 7.5wt works out perfectly.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Bumpity bump
> Round 2 of these carts should be arriving on ppl's door steps.
> If anyone's got one in an 888, throw up a new thread on anything tricky w/ the install, and performance pre/post upgrade. Also, include the tune you ordered, your weight, your spring weight, riding style, terrain, and if the mid-stroke valve was added. Thanx!


Hey Jerrys been slammed at the homefront with a new baby and me with packing I will be there tomorrow and Ill stop in again to see if hes there when Im there to get the measurements for you...

Also try a thread at RM, theres several already sporting these to the 888s and several ordered as well... We need to get a thead dedicated to Tune, fork, etc like you installed but all forks... Avy cart tuning thread: And we can post modified shim stacks or mid valve stacks etc... I got a mid valave on the way and one already here in the other cart... I just dont want to rob the other cartridge for it... LOL Ill wait.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Hey Jerrys been slammed at the homefront with a new baby and me with packing I will be there tomorrow and Ill stop in again to see if hes there when Im there to get the measurements for you...
> 
> Also try a thread at RM, theres several already sporting these to the 888s and several ordered as well... We need to get a thead dedicated to Tune, fork, etc like you installed but all forks... Avy cart tuning thread: And we can post modified shim stacks or mid valve stacks etc... I got a mid valave on the way and one already here in the other cart... I just dont want to rob the other cartridge for it... LOL Ill wait.


No worries about the spring measurement...whene ver you have time. I'm still in hotter-than-ass Utard.

As for the tune thread, differentiating fork type would be pretty important, methinks. But if you do start that thread, can you up that base tune table as well so there's a starting pt of reference?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> No worries about the spring measurement...whene ver you have time. I'm still in hotter-than-ass Utard.
> 
> As for the tune thread, differentiating fork type would be pretty important, methinks. But if you do start that thread, can you up that base tune table as well so there's a starting pt of reference?


I can talk to Craig and see what he has for varied set ups and see if he'll gimme some input to start the cat tuning thread....


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> ...start the cat tuning thread....


Is that like slapping little pieces of duct tape on the bottoms of their paws and tying a paper bag full of cat-nip to their heads? That would tune a cat up


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

so am i reading this right? i can pull my crap 04ish boxxer out of the closet and turn it into a useable piece of equipment for a few hundred bucks??


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yep, and then when you're sick of its shitty seals/bushings an $80 adapter kit will let you use the Avalanche cart in any newer fork.
I'd be all over this if I didn't have to spend $300ish tomorrow on stitches. My duct tape job doesn't look like it's gonna do the trick


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

H


Lelandjt said:


> Yep, and then when you're sick of its shitty seals/bushings an $80 adapter kit will let you use the Avalanche cart in any newer fork.
> I'd be all over this if I didn't have to spend $300ish tomorrow on stitches. My duct tape job doesn't look like it's gonna do the trick


Post is worthless without pictures


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Ooo, it would be a good photo. It's pretty deep and wide but I just changed the bandage/duct tape and don't want to take it off again to take a pic. High speed low side wearing nothing but lycra. Grabbed a tree with one hand and the bike with another to stop from sliding into a ravine.


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## Internal14 (Jan 21, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> Ooo, it would be a good photo. It's pretty deep and wide but I just changed the bandage/duct tape and don't want to take it off again to take a pic. High speed low side wearing nothing but lycra. Grabbed a tree with one hand and the bike with another to stop from sliding into a ravine.


duct tape schmuck tape....bust out the Super Glue. Avy Cartridges on the way!


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> Ooo, it would be a good photo. It's pretty deep and wide but I just changed the bandage/duct tape and don't want to take it off again to take a pic. High speed low side wearing nothing but lycra. Grabbed a tree with one hand and the bike with another to stop from sliding into a ravine.


Silversol and some butterfly bandages... Then when its coming along super glue it shut, My wifes uses that in the hospital (cynoacralate)... Or do what I have done thump it and take some thread a small needle lobster tail it together and there you go... The fat that sticks out alls off... Ive got some not so pretty scars but I still have yet to set foot in a hospital for a gash or most of my breaks..

Then you can order your cart... The silversol works like a champ she packed liver/kidney transplant patients open wound and deep gash packings with it...

Try a person with a belly wound all the way through spray it soak the gauze and stuff it down there... Let it sit for a while pull it back out and repack it... YOU will be fine....:thumbsup:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

DAMN, that's pretty hard core. I was gonna try various home tape, glue, sewing methods but close examination showed the rock kept a large strip of skin. It's more of a canyon than a gash! I'm saving some money by waiting till Monday when I can go to a cheap clinic. The Emergency room quoted me $300-$500!
Colorado Trail from Breck to Camp Hale was excellent though (field dressed the arm and kept going). Bring a bike that both climbs well and has serious brakes! Not great flow but techy and sick views. Sorry, back to the carts. I'll get one eventually.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> DAMN, that's pretty hard core. I was gonna try various home tape, glue, sewing methods but close examination showed the rock kept a large strip of skin. It's more of a canyon than a gash! I'm saving some money by waiting till Monday when I can go to a cheap clinic. The Emergency room quoted me $300-$500!
> Colorado Trail from Breck to Camp Hale was excellent though (field dressed the arm and kept going). Bring a bike that both climbs well and has serious brakes! Not great flow but techy and sick views. Sorry, back to the carts. I'll get one eventually.


silversol and a butterfly bandage, it will promote healing in hte gash and the butterfly will allow it to make contact and reattach itself.. Pull it tight and it will work... If you dont you end up with a scab thats the length of the gash and recessed in the wound making for a v-notch. Then you have to grab it rip it off and pull it together I did a few with little to no pulling together and they were a real pain the backside...

Silversol+butterfly bandage + little bit of time =saved money for something thats going to heal anywase.

Either way good luck and remember chicks dig scars....

Edit: I got bit by a recluse last year on the ortegas out xtreme running in the mountains, like usuall I didnt think much of it 5 days later I had a 5" round shaped spot rotting off my lower leg.
Used silversol and 5000mgs of vitamin c to flush the system as well as drank lots of water and Ill be it healed up soon after.. It oozed several days really bad but the silver sol did the trick...
It killed the bacteria from the bite and allowed the white blood cells a break so they could assist the body and the red blood cells could coagulate and scab up so it could even start to heal. It was either that or take the spark plug out of a lawnmower and hold it against your leg while someone pulls the cord, electrical current in this case kills the bacteria and allows the body to start healing it.. This applies to recluse bites not gashes so dont start using the lawnmower trick but the Silversol works like a dream..


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Silversol works like a dream..


SilverSolutionUSA.com?

Emergency 1st Aid...let's see:
- Duct tape - good for huge gashes and splints
- Krazy Glue - emergency needle/thread substitute
- SilverSol - anti microbial/disinfectant (H2O2 cheaper but hurts more?)
- clean old T-shirt - chain cleaning, bandage, wiping bugs off of windshield, emergency TP
- TP - self explanatory 
- condoms - pretty much self explanatory, but can be used to cover compound breaks of the smaller things


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> SilverSolutionUSA.com?
> 
> Emergency 1st Aid...let's see:
> - Duct tape - good for huge gashes and splints
> ...


Tp =s. Mountain money. Redeemable for cool stuff from others on the trail...


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

Good info BC, thanks for the write up as well. Parting out my Jedi low on funds so not able to keep my new Avy stuff  

I got an 09 Boxxer WC with Avy upgrade for sale if anyone was looking. Also got a 2 month old Avy Woodie rear 8.75X 2.75 up for grabs as well. Just send PM anyone, thanks.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

supramk388 said:


> Good info BC, thanks for the write up as well. Parting out my Jedi low on funds so not able to keep my new Avy stuff
> 
> I got an 09 Boxxer WC with Avy upgrade for sale if anyone was looking. Also got a 2 month old Avy Woodie rear 8.75X 2.75 up for grabs as well. Just send PM anyone, thanks.


Pmd ya.


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

bullcrew said:


> Pmd ya.


Thanks, I sent back BC.

Pic of my Jedi before it gets sold  bye bye Jedi


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

buyed just NOW the 32mm and 35mm adapter!!


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## katsooba (Nov 21, 2008)

sorry for not going through the entire thread, but is there a chance the avy cartridge will fit a 06 MARZ 888 RC2X ?

plz plz?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

yup


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## katsooba (Nov 21, 2008)

great!  thanks!
guess ill be ordering one soon

any pix of the top parts installed? i guess i will not have to use the big red knobs.
and i think its gonna make the RC2X lighter huh?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm curious about weight but my guess is it will be very close. With the cartridge you have less oil but more aluminum. You'll still need at least 30cc of oil in the leg for lubrication.


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## katsooba (Nov 21, 2008)

well my rc2x weighs in at 3500 grams as it sits right now.

i guess the aVa cartridge would reduce that alittle as well as giving me much better performance


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## Mr.Dirt (Jan 13, 2007)

Where can I buy a cartridge kit for my boxxer 32mm?
Any webpage available?


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

As the thread title says...
http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/


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## Mr.Dirt (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks dude!! :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Mr.Dirt said:


> Thanks dude!! :thumbsup:


Is this the real Mr. Dirt (Barnnet?) or just someone who's adopted this name?


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## macguffin (Sep 10, 2007)

*2010 BoXXer Race?*

Want one of these for my 2010 BoXXer Race! I need a Yellow spring as i am a lightweight!. So do I just drop the cart in or do I still need the lighter spring? Thanks. Never mind. Downloaded the Install instructions from Avalanche site!! Tells me all I need to know! 
"Surprise, Surprise, Surprise." :thumbsup:


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BC, 
Do you have the recommended oil volume for the 38mm 888's? Is it the OE recommended vol, or is it something else? Thanx.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Ill call craig id like to put the specs for all the little stuff on here for others reference....


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Ill call craig id like to put the specs for all the little stuff on here for others reference....


Could be the beginnings of that tune thread you were talking about...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Since the oil in the left leg is now just for lubrication (like the right leg) I'd recommend using 30ml. This is 10ml more than Marz recommends in an ATA filled leg and 30ml less than in a coil filled leg. Should be enough to lube everything while not taking up too much air volume.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

The cart is still open bath, so still requires a bunch of oil. I'm starting out with pretty close to stock recommended levels until I hear otherwise.

And in case anyone is interested in weight comparo - about an ounce heavier than the stock cart. Looks much prettier, though. Almost a shame all you see is the topcap once installed...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Oh sorry, I thought it was closed cart. On the Marz team we use 280-300ml in the damper leg so go from there.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Yes i will start a tune thread im doing mid valve next week and ill try and break the shim stacks down oil height/volume for each fork weight of internals etc..., ill start compiling monday...,


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Yeah BABY! Newest full fledged member of the Avy Cult! It feels more slickery than a gallon of Astroglide 










Now, if I can just get Jan to hook me up w/ an aligned frame...

Here's my assembly:
~320cc of oil, used Showa SS7 5wt, and ~210cc of oil in spring side. 
Spring is the white med weight (k = 6.5). Dropped in w/ only two additional turns in on rebound damping to keep the front end from jumping off the carpet.And, Englund fork grease packed into the seal area/foam ring. Spring preload to take out slack is at 40 clicks (there are roughly 70 clicks in the RC3 spring preloader).
I will update w/ ride reports after this Sat.

Note: the rear shock has been set at minimum travel (~8.5") and most progressive position in order to get more pop out of the rear end.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

for all europa ava cartride buyer 5wt 85/150 is = motorex racing sd1 or a litle litle heavier 2.5w oil
Tomorrow build in the kit!!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

8664 said:


> for all europa ava cartride buyer 5wt 85/150 is = motorex racing sd1 or a litle litle heavier 2.5w oil
> Tomorrow build in the kit!!


That flex hose under the clear plastic on the top made me wonder why is there a fork fluid sticker on a vacuum cleaner


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

The BIG HIT Marzocchi 38mm 888 with dual dampers built and ready as a complete for under$ 900......


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Right! 
With the 2nd choice recommended per Craig, Showa SS7 (Honda) fluid, the difference in ACTUAL fluid weight from the table below is only a whisp lighter than the first choice: Spectro 85/150 (3.77 vs 3.82). However, w/ full rebound damping cranked in, when I do the grab a handful of frt brake while compressing the front end and then release trick, the tire would leave cement ground (carpet is not a good surface to do this test).

And, with the Showa fluid, I was able to get metal to metal bottoming (oil levels and spring rate on earlier post) and w/ 15 out of 23 clicks of compression damping cranked in. But, it only occurred when I landed nose heavy (my butchering of any sort of style!) off of tables.

I'm going to mix the Showa SS7 w/ Silkolene Pro RSF 7.5 wt (table says 12 wt actual) in a 2:1 ratio (will get you 6.51 wt). I'll bias the mix towards the Showa to get a ball park wt of ~6 wt. At 320cc, 1/3 of it is ~ 107cc. So 220cc of Show w/ 100cc of Silkolene...
Will report after the ride tomorrow.

Edit: I've got the "Free ride" tune.

The actual PDF of the Suspension Oil Chart


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Still a bit fast on the rebound w/ the 6wt mixture, but at least the front end doesn't feel like an ADD jack rabbit now. However, the setting screw is still cranked in 100% (fully damped). I'm thinking of a true 7.5 wt (Showa SS8 (10wt) comes in at 7.38wt actual, and Castro Synth fork oil (10wt) comes in at exactly 7.5wt actual). The other thought is going to 10wt actual so I can back off all of the knobs a bit, but spiking will be of concern if I do this. 
Didn't tweak w/ the compression...left it at about 3/4 of the way in (15 out of 21 or 22 clicks). There was no noticeable spiking w/ the 6wt mixture. And, no more metal/metal bottoming. Full travel is ~ 7 3/4 inches. Speeds were on par if not higher than yesterday because the trails were nice and moist/carvey, so if all things being equal I shoulda bottomed more.
Lastly, I didin't notice the fork being divey at all! I ran the red/firm spring when I had the RC3 cart, w/ reduced oil level in the spring leg (~250cc so I can get ~7.5" at full travel). I had to crank in almost full spring pre-load to get the fork to ride hi, but ate crap on small bump sensitivity. With the Avy cart in, I changed the spring to the white/med one. Cranked in ~1/4 to 1/3 of the preload range to take out spring slack. WOW! The fork now picks up a lot of the small bumps! Braking bumps are way less noticeable now and I can go into turns a LOT hotter than before and brake markedly later w/o the front end squatting down to the dirt.

Here are the other factors:
Weight: ~200 geared up
Terrain: Winter Park/Trestle => relatively smooth w/ a good bit of man-made features. Largest drop is ~8ft from top to shallow tranny.
Riding style: I try to be smooth, but mostly just end up plowing. There's no real consequence at WP, but Keystone...oooooh!
My 888: '08 RC3 WC w/ '10 lowers and slotted bushings. Seals area is packed w/ Englund fork grease.


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

If you have the time and tools, small changes to the rebound valving will be more effective than changing the oil weight, it will also allow you to isolate changes to the rebound and prevent changes to the compression damping curves.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

crseekins said:


> If you have the time and tools, small changes to the rebound valving will be more effective than changing the oil weight, it will also allow you to isolate changes to the rebound and prevent changes to the compression damping curves.


Craig, speaking of tool(s), is/are there anything special I need to access to the shim stack? I saw in the PDF some sort of a tubular thingie to pull off the top of the cartridge? I definitely want to explore messing w/ the shim stack and valving a bit (for next summer).


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

i take the motorex racing 2.5w there are now rebound with full closed..... and when i tighten the red screw the hole damper is out off the middle in the top of fork where are the gold knob.. than when i compress the damper tube in the last 3cm is noticeable drag, because the inner tube where is the 35mm adapter hit the damper cartridge !!! what a mess ..!

boxxer 10" wc 
damper dh racing


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

8664 said:


> ...and when i tighten the red screw the hole damper is out off the middle in the top of fork where are the gold knob..


Huh?



8664 said:


> ...than when i compress the damper tube in the last 3cm is noticeable drag, because the inner tube where is the 35mm adapter hit the damper cartridge !!!


I think this is the hydro bottom out. When I put mine together, it was also a bit sticky at first. But after a day out, it's no longer sticky. Actually, can't even feel it now. I think this is a part that needs to break-in and bed-in. When I changed the oil after the first day, I did notice it was pretty black (the SS7 has the color of a very light vegi oil). I'd wager money that once the parts in the bottom out beds in, the oil will remain clear.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

Pau11y said:


> Huh?
> 
> I think this is the hydro bottom out. When I put mine together, it was also a bit sticky at first. But after a day out, it's no longer sticky. Actually, can't even feel it now. I think this is a part that needs to break-in and bed-in. When I changed the oil after the first day, I did notice it was pretty black (the SS7 has the color of a very light vegi oil). I'd wager money that once the parts in the bottom out beds in, the oil will remain clear.


check picture


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

8664 said:


> check picture


Is that the bottom out bumper, a rubber disc thingie? I think you're supposed to remove that!
I distinctly remember seeing verbiage and a pic in the install instructions of a coat hanger fishing out a rubber disc, referenced as the bottom out bumper.

Edit: You're 2nd pic explains things. This casting problem was also cited by BOS for their 32mm Boxxer cartridge a few years back (I have a '07 888 WC w/ a BOS cart installed). BOS doesn't suggest a remedy...looks like it's off to the machine shop w/ your lowers. Sucks for sure!


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

THE BOTTOM BUMBER WAS OUT!!!!!!! that sure for 200%

and than now rebound effect with 250ml motorex 2.5w !!!!


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## Dymalla (Feb 26, 2010)

*2010 Boxxers*

I had the same problem with my 35mm BOXXERS. Some early ones have the footbolt area of the lowers machined out of alignment. As a quick fix i replaced the ABS cone o-ring that Craig supplies with a smaller, thicker one that fits snugly over the stepped section of the ABS cone.By not tightening the red nut down fully it doesn't pull the outer edge of the ABS cone down onto the misaligned base of the lowers.Seems to be working fine so far. Would really appreciate any input from Craig.
Problem aside the cartridge is amazing; Thanks Craig and HAPPY BIRTHDAY.


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

Dymalla said:


> I had the same problem with my 35mm BOXXERS. Some early ones have the footbolt area of the lowers machined out of alignment. As a quick fix i replaced the ABS cone o-ring that Craig supplies with a smaller, thicker one that fits snugly over the stepped section of the ABS cone.By not tightening the red nut down fully it doesn't pull the outer edge of the ABS cone down onto the misaligned base of the lowers.Seems to be working fine so far. Would really appreciate any input from Craig.
> Problem aside the cartridge is amazing; Thanks Craig and HAPPY BIRTHDAY.


Yes, we have seen the same issue on some of the Boxxer Race Forks. I have one here that is really out of alignment too. I can't really recommend what you did to fix yours. The right fix would be to have them bored and drilled square to the bottom, seems like this could be fixed by Rockshox easily with a special boring bit attached to the end of simulated upper leg guided by the bushings.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

*A question for Craig Seekins...........*

I have a cartridge in my 2008 Boxxer WC and if I let the bike sit overnight or even for an hour it seems to loose all rebound damping until I cycle the fork once or twice. 
It even happens as quickly as loading the bike on a lift at the bottom of the mountain and then unloading it at the top the fork springs back with a very aggressive top out noise.
(zero rebound)
It seems to be fine while riding , it just happens after resting. 
I run about 60 psi in the air side and have left the settings the way you shipped it to me.

Thanks. -Craig


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

Thanks Craig,
Topped off the fork with about 4 tablespoons and it did the trick.

I PM'd you also


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Hey Jerrys been slammed at the homefront with a new baby and me with packing I will be there tomorrow and Ill stop in again to see if hes there when Im there to get the measurements for you...


BC, did you get a chance to visit w/ Jerry yet?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

I posted a weight of the Internals from the WC that were removed for the cart as well in the first post but Ill put em here as well along with the adjuster knobs (preproduction just to get em out and working for people).

NOW 2 things to remember on the weights and the internals:
Avalanches has a hydraulic bottom out, open bath system and will take less 25cc's less oil at a weight of 20g for golden spectro.
Oil height for 
boxxer 245ccs upper and 10cc's lower = 255cc's
Avalanche Cartridge 230cc's of oil = 230cc's

Note: the 35mm kit will weigh a smidge more than the 32s and will be less than the 38mm marz stucc. The adapters will vary a bit from size to size but this is 1:1 comparison for reference. the actual Avalanche cartridge without adapters is 225g

Boxxer WC 2010 internals 281g









Production kit and adapters Avalanche 289g


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

REJOICE single crown riders, theres a possability its coming real soon.....


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## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Fox 36?

Maybe then I'll have a possibility to do a mod to add a bit more a2c...


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

junktrunk said:


> Fox 36?
> 
> Maybe then I'll have a possibility to do a mod to add a bit more a2c...


 Ill leave it at that.... :thumbsup:


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## enemy1 (Nov 2, 2008)

On the avalanche site you can order a cartridge for 2010 Race/Team or a different cartridge for 2010-2011 WC. What's the difference? 

I'm assuming the 2010 Race/Team cart works also with the 2011 RC & R2C2 forks. Correct?


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## enemy1 (Nov 2, 2008)

enemy1 said:


> On the avalanche site you can order a cartridge for 2010 Race/Team or a different cartridge for 2010-2011 WC. What's the difference?
> 
> I'm assuming the 2010 Race/Team cart works also with the 2011 RC & R2C2 forks. Correct?


I e-mailed Craig and he said:
"Yes they are different, we are working on a adaptor kit, keep an eye on the website for updates."

So the cart is not yet compatible with 2011 Boxxer RC or R2C2.


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## ruralrider528 (Nov 8, 2008)

I am thinking of ordering a 2011 boxxer r2c2, would this fork compare performance wise to say a 2011 boxxer rc with the avalanche cartridge. The latter option would be slightly less expensive but the r2c2 with the beginning stroke rebound and ending stroke rebound sounds like an awesome idea to me. Do the 2 rebounds work out well or is it a bit over rated?

Is the slightly more expensive r2c2 with 2 rebounds worth it over an RC with avy cartridge?


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

Looks like there is a Lyrik / Domain kit out, but not for 170mm models?


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