# Any vegetarian riders out there?



## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

I've always enjoyed bacon and steak as much as the next guy, but I've read a few books now that really make me question the trust we give to the meat industries. So I'm considering dropping meat altogether. 
The question is, how do you do it? How can you get enough calories after a long ride? How do you not get bored of rice and beans?


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Calories?? Meat has relatively few calories compared to carb/fat rich foods. Animal fats do contain the highest concentration calories, but they're really bad for you. If health is the main goal, I would recommend cutting out dairy before cutting out meat. 

If you're worried about supporting shady industries, you would probably need to go live in a cave to truly get away from all of them.

Ethics? Dairy is just as bad as meat in that department. Actually worse. What's less ethical, letting an animal roam around all day and do as it pleases, then killing it quickly and efficiently(most of the time), or mechanically raping it throughout it's life? 


Before anyone get's their panties in a wad, I eat both meat and cheese, but in limited quantities. I couldn't care less about the ethics, only the health risks/benefits. 

However, I used to be vegan, and was at one time a raw foodist. I had no problems with energy, and completed my first century when I was on an entirely raw foods diet. Veggie isn't just rice and beans. You've got all sorts of possibilities for variety with fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds and grains.


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

Rice and bean burritos after a ride. Stuff with tofu, etc. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

I get 20 miles to the burrito! Been a vege since 1973 and never get tired of beans. Do you get tired of steak? Not a big rice eater, high mucous food. If you get tired of the beans there's always pizza, Mexican food, Chinese, Italian, Indian... I do eat lots of fresh fruit and more nuts in winter. 
Try reading Arnold Ehret "Rational Fasting" or Mucusless Diet Healing System".


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Quinoa, it is a complete protein.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Life without meat is no life at all.


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

stumblemumble said:


> The question is, how do you do it? How can you get enough calories after a long ride? How do you not get bored of rice and beans?


Avocado sandos, pasta, rice, potatoes, beans, fruits are all high in calories. There's a wide world of foods beyond animal products. It is not boring at all opening up a sense of taste to many times more flavors.

Over 15 years ago I went vegi to reduce a high cholesterol blood count. And to avoid being drug dependent to lower cholesterol. And to better my effort to live lighter on this little planet.

To my surprise my endurance for long rides and concentration at software development work increased a lot. And increasing yearly allergy symptoms disappeared over 2 years from weeks and months of suffering to an occasional sneeze or cough attack from dust or pollen, to last a few seconds or minutes at most. Also colds and flues reduced too, to about once or twice every 2 years.


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## istandalone (Feb 6, 2011)

vegetarians lol. 
humans are at the top of the food chain for a reason, and it isn't so we can eat bean curd and raw vegetables.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

The toughest thing I imagine will be milk and yogurt, sort of staples of my diet.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

im either vegetarian or vegan. Usually what ever is trendier at the moment.

All joking aside, meat is good for you. Especially if you are an athlete like us. 


Sheepo


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I gained almost 12 pounds in a month eating vegetarian.. Ive talked to a small group of people who had similar results. 

Its a lot of work to prepare balanced and healthy meals.. its even more work to do it without any healthy lean meats, and your body wont necessarily like it. 

Theres nothing wrong with meat. Theres nothing really wrong with not eating eat either, but dont buy into a few authors propaganda. We're biologically fine eating meat, and a few scare stores dont speak for the whole industry.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

For best overall health, physical and ethical, do as much eating as you can from your local farmers. You should be able to find eggs, meat, milk and yogurt without much problem. I highly recommend raw (unpasteurized) milk and milk products. Unless you are nursing an infant.

This is a great cookbook http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Traditions-Challenges-Politically-Dictocrats/dp/0967089735
This http://www.localharvest.org/csa/ is a great place to connect with farmers.

No doubt eating heavily hormone and antibiotic dosed, only corn fed, penned up animals is pretty horrific for your body, but it is also horrific for the animals involved, for the farm/ slaughter house workers, traditional farming communities, and the environment overall.

But eating flesh, dairy, and eggs from animals that have been raised by people that care is probably the best thing you can do for your body and community.


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## Ted_R (Feb 21, 2011)

As a vegetarian their is_ so much more_ you can eat than just rice and beans. The list goes on and on: fruits, nuts , whole grains , huge variety of veggies, etc.

My own experience with being a vegetarian has been quite positive. I have been that way for 17 years. I sleep better, I have more energy, I am calmer, I can concentrate for longer periods of time without fatigue. The energy level I get from my current diet also seems to be much more stable and consistent than what I use to experience in my pre-veggie days.

If you only eat 3 meals a day currently you may find you would benefit from 5 smaller meals a day instead when you make the switch.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Quinoa, it is a complete protein.


+1 
quinoa is a seed and seeds are the only vegan source of complete protein, quinoa is basically the perfect balance of fat carbs and protein .. Add raw honey after its done cooking and it is gooood eating..
Seeds are great not only for protein but for essential fatty acids:
I like flax and chia seeds in the morning = omega 3s for energy 
and hemp seeds after rides and/or at night = omega 6s for protein synthesis

I do not eat Gluten , I decided to try gluten free after I heard pro cycling teams were doing it and I would absolutely never go back ... Anyone who hasn't tried , go two weeks gluten free and judge for yourself .

Blackstrap mollasses is a good vegan source of iron and calcium


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

Is a vegetarian with the runs really called a _salad shooter_??


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

What are your on the go tasty snacks/meals? Nuts are the obvious that come to mind, hummus and veggies is good too. I'm going to need ideas. 
And I agree with you Hellav8ted, you hit my primary concerns. My cholesterol is actually really good and I'm nowhere near overweight; my concern is the unregulated industry. I also just want to try it and see. If I spend less money, eat more veggies, and feel better it'd be worth it.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

trail snacks: 90% of commercially available granola bars, trail mix, dried fruit(I like dried mangoes), nuts, seeds, cookies, crackers. Macadamia nuts and craisins with some brown sugar and sea salt added is a very tasty, healthy trailside snack. Mini potatoes are also good. Cooked if you're gonna eat them warm/hot, raw if you're gonna eat them cold.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

stumblemumble said:


> my concern is the unregulated industry. I also just want to try it and see. If I spend less money, eat more veggies, and feel better it'd be worth it.


Definitely pick up Nourishing Traditions and learn how to source and prepare food.










Can't recommend it enough.


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## GittinSkinny (Jan 12, 2010)

I've always heard that "vegetarian" was an old indian word that means bad hunter.


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## manabiker (Jul 18, 2010)

the Meatrix, check this info out.. at the end you can put in your area code and find Farm Fresh Foods in your area. 
I think local veggies are the best choice, the animals eat them, then we eat the animal, why get them second hand ??

http://www.themeatrix.com/


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

This is some interesting reading about the global food industry, and it's impacts on people's lives.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/the_food_issue

This is a gallery of what a 'typical' family around the world eat.

http://fud.smugmug.com/gallery/4665232_qUp2L#275574459_Xs57b


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

My wife has been vegan for over a year now, I eat very little meat. Never felt better.


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## awesomeame (Apr 7, 2010)

stumblemumble said:


> I've always enjoyed bacon and steak as much as the next guy, but I've read a few books now that really make me question the trust we give to the meat industries. So I'm considering dropping meat altogether.
> The question is, how do you do it? How can you get enough calories after a long ride? How do you not get bored of rice and beans?


I highly recommend anyone thinking about dropping meat and fat to read these books first:

http://www.amazon.com/Trick-Treat-h...0229/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304257687&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Healt...0150/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1304257687&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304257748&sr=1-1

I agree the meat industry as a whole is no good. Profit driven to the extreme. Watch "Food, Inc." if you haven't seen it. Most of our meats are of poor quality and full of additives and chemicals. I eat only grassfed/grassfinished beef and it's unlike anything you might find at any grocery store. Most likely you'll be able to find a farmer near you where you can buy this. I eat a near zero carb diet and feel fabulous and full of energy...as soon as I eat some carbs I get all bloated, heart races, cold sweats etc.

Don't quit meat, just find a quality source.

Matt


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

derby said:


> Avocado sandos, pasta, rice, potatoes, beans, fruits are all high in calories. There's a wide world of foods beyond animal products. It is not boring at all opening up a sense of taste to many times more flavors.
> 
> Over 15 years ago I went vegi to reduce a high cholesterol blood count. And to avoid being drug dependent to lower cholesterol. And to better my effort to live lighter on this little planet.
> 
> To my surprise my endurance for long rides and concentration at software development work increased a lot. And increasing yearly allergy symptoms disappeared over 2 years from weeks and months of suffering to an occasional sneeze or cough attack from dust or pollen, to last a few seconds or minutes at most. Also colds and flues reduced too, to about once or twice every 2 years.


Derby, all my hay fever allergies disappeared after becoming a vegetarian as well, & like you, I almost never get sick anymore either.
I think meat requires a ton of energy to digest, I used to just about fall asleep after a hefty meat meal.


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

as a trail snack, I really like PBJ sandwich. Especially with good bread.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Trail snack, Yam baked with olive oil, PB and honey sammich.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

I'll have to try that Peanut Butter and Bacon snack as raved about in this thread


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

Since I went veggie quote - “I almost never get sick anymore either.”

Are you sure this has a lot to do with a diet change? I have noticed that in the last 10 yrs the general population seems to have a lower incident of cold and flu. More people washing their hands properly, staying home from work and not spreading it around, etc. I’m not a doctor – just a personal observation.

I tried going veggie for a while in my early twenties. I bought a variety of books and followed a proper balanced diet. I got a wild lands fire fighter job in Mammoth (8,000’) on a Heli-Attack Hot Shot Crew. I noticed that cuts took weeks to heal and mentioned this to one of the ‘old guys’ (thirty something - grin). 
Rick - “Do you eat meat?” 
Me – “No”
Rick – “I was a veg and had the same problem. I started eating meat again and now my cuts heal in a few days.”
Sure enough, I started eating meat again and my cuts healed normally.

There is no question that being able to cut a 2” thick chicken breast with a fork is WRONG but you can buy organically raised meat at the health food store. It cost more – so eat less…

If we weren’t supposed to eat meat, why does BBQ smell so good?


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I converted last year, but I remain a octo-lavo, eating cage free, organic eggs and an occassional half-and-half in my coffee when Almond Milk is not available.

Coming from a Filipino family, I was raised on fried rice with spam and eggs. And although that sounds delicious - it's horrible. When I discovered you can be vegetarian and still have good tasting food, I was down for it. Made life easier for my wife who's a vegan. 

I didn't convert for health reasons primarily - I did it because I think the meat industry, aside from local organic farmers, is a nasty, nasty, nasty business. Everyone complains about cruelty to animals - but some guy kicking his dog pails in comparision to what the meat industry does to animals. I don't want my money to go towards that sort of thing.

Hunt your meat or buy from a local, organic farmer if you're going to eat meat. I have more respect for hunters (I am a NRA member/gun enthusiast) than I do for those who turn a blind eye to what the meat industry is doing to animals, as well as creating hazardous conditions for people with poor food handling.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I have been a vegetarian (but not vegan) for almost a year. I havent noticed much of a difference in how I feel. I still have plenty of energy and feel great, but I felt fine before. Im not a PETA member and I have no problems with the idea of eating meat. I stopped eating meat after learning about all the hormones they stuff into the animal getting them to grow faster and what not, and what they can do to the people who eat it. 

After the first month, I stopped missing meat all together. I still use dairy products. Mostly cheese and skim milk and sour cream, but I try to limit it. Once you come up with a list of meals and foods to eat it not hard at all.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

Hellav8ted said:


> Definitely pick up Nourishing Traditions and learn how to source and prepare food.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I looked into this, and the other Amazon books mentioned above. The author Sally Fallon is president of WAPF, while Barry Groves (author of the other mentioned books) is a board member. WAPF is a group that believes in high cholesterol, high fat diets. They follow the mantra of a dentist who wrote in the 1930's named Weston A. Price, creating a foundation following his beliefs.
On their website a picture of a family: "They're happy because they eat butter." Another of their prominent members, Chris Masterjohn denies a difference LDL vs HDL cholesterol science and writes about how his attempt at vegetarianism "nearly killed" him, caused him to loose his teeth, and have panic attacks. Then he discovered WAPF.
Sounds like an odd agenda, and it has worked so well for so many Americans.


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## MyName1sMud (Feb 6, 2011)

Hellav8ted said:


> Definitely pick up Nourishing Traditions and learn how to source and prepare food.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for letting me know about this book!

Just bought it on my Kindle for $9.99

:thumbsup:


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

stumblemumble said:


> I've always enjoyed bacon and steak as much as the next guy, but I've read a few books now that really make me question the trust we give to the meat industries. So I'm considering dropping meat altogether.





mullen119 said:


> I stopped eating meat after learning about all the hormones they stuff into the animal getting them to grow faster and what not, and what they can do to the people who eat it.


Pack a rifle on your rides & kill your own meat.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

XC, that is legit!
How do you haul out your kill? 
How much dressing do you do in the field?
Please forgive my ignorance, I've only dressed roadkill (deer that's still warm on very cold nights) and live stock, and we've always taken care to use all the blood and offal, but that's a lot of weight to pack out of the backcountry.


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Hellav8ted said:


> XC, that is legit!
> How do you haul out your kill?
> How much dressing do you do in the field?
> Please forgive my ignorance, I've only dressed roadkill (deer that's still warm on very cold nights) and live stock, and we've always taken care to use all the blood and offal, but that's a lot of weight to pack out of the backcountry.


 Late last summer I came across a LARGE Black Bear standing flat footed staring @ me from 40 yards ahead on the trail. My wife & I were riding across the base of Debar Mtn in the Adirondacks.

In the following days I started noticing Bear scat (yes they do shat in the woods) on numerous trails near where we were camping.

Perhaps it was this guy that was pooping on the trails..








 JK

Since I have never taken a Bear (I have taken over 30 deer from my farm in the 12 years I have lived here) & always wanted a rug, when the early bear season opened in the Adirondacks, I started using my MTB as an access vehicle to get back into some of the promising areas. I would lock my bike to a tree & strike out XC W/my trusty Silva compass & topo map.










I didn't encounter a bear while hunting, but I found lots of sign & areas where they had been feeding on Beech nuts & insects in a area full of rotting logs.

Here's another picture I took in camp.That's "Mountain Pond" in the background. there are several free DEC campsites there.










As far as getting the carcass out of the woods?

I figured in the remote possibility that I was successful, I would call home & get help. This area is only about 45 miles from my home. Mother nature takes care of the offal, she wastes nothing.

Back to the subject of this thread.

If you kill your own meat, you have a lot more control over the quality.


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## Hellav8ted (Aug 26, 2009)

OP, don't worry so much about the Sally Fallon/ Weston Price aspect of the cookbook, Nourishing Traditions.

-Enjoy eating and preparing food.
-Process food yourself, it is the most cost effective.
-That means, buy fresh, whole grains, with their hulls and germ, and fresh, sproutable legumes. These are still technically alive, as they are viable seeds. Sprout them just before cooking them. 
-Buy a whole chicken rather than packaged breasts. It's a whole lot cheaper per pound, and there are many recipes for making stocks with the bones, skin, feet, etc. there's no waste, plus there is a f*ckton of nutrition. 
-Eat lot's of fresh, leafy greens.
-Eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies in season, and can and preserve yourself for winter.
-Make your own ferments, like sauerkraut and kim chi. 
-Cut out processed corn sugar.

I've worked most of the past 13 years on small, 4 - 40 acre farms, and feel pretty passionately about food and our food choices.
I was a vegetarian (mostly) for many years, until I started working on a 30 milking cow dairy/fresh market vegetable farm in the Big Thompson river valley in the front range of Colorado.
It was there that I learned how important large grazing mammals are to an ecosystem. 10 acres of high quality pasture mixed with trees, with cows and chickens grazing and pooping is so much more biodiverse, healthy, and productive than 10 acres of nothing but corn.
It takes attentive management, and it means keeping the herd/ flock size at level that the land can sustain, and that means killing and eating.
Attentive management is anathema to today's "Edible Protein Production Facility" and we're all the worse off for it.

We *need* illegal immigrants to work at the bottom of the food industry, picking strawberries (the absolute worst crop to pick) and slaughtering animals on an 'assembly' line. 
And we assure ourselves a steady supply of illegal immigrants from Mexico by passing the Farm Bill every 5 years. The bulk of the spending ($288 Billion) goes to price supporting corn and soy. The fallout is cheap cheap corn on the international market making it impossible for rural Mexican families to try and grow more, because margins are slim. They borrow money for fertilizer, equipment, diesel (just like farmers in the US), and get deep into debt, and after one or two bad years(weather, prices, personal disease/ debilitation) they 'lose the farm'. 
So they move to the cities, looking for work. The cities crowd up, so the young men (boys really) head north to pick fruit in California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, or work in Slaughter houses in Colorado, Nebraska, or Tennessee.
Then the Senators and Representatives of the rural "conservative" districts that depend on cheap, disposable, labor get reelected by saying they're going to keep the country safe by spending (at a minimum) $49 Billion on a fence nobody thinks will actually work.

Whoa, sorry for the rant, I've had a few beers.

So, uh, buy from a farmer you meet at your local farmers market.
Don't eat meat from a farm where they don't let you take pictures.
Watch out, if you start to really care about food, you're going to end up having to cut rides short because it's getting dark and the chickens have to be closed up, and you should get to sleep early any way 'cause it's your turn to wake up early and milk the goats.


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Hellav8ted said:


> Watch out, if you start to really care about food, you're going to end up having to cut rides short because it's getting dark and the chickens have to be closed up.


Yesterday we took 22 "Cornish Giant" broilers out of the brood box & put them "on the floor". They are only a few weeks old, but already huge, so they seem to be doing fine on the floor.

Non too soon as the Agway called this morning & the "Buff Orfingtons" (sp?) layers came in so we got 11 of them settled into the brood box this evening.

It's been a few years since we raised chickens. The local Amish dress them fo $1 ea so that's what we do. They do a nice job packaging the gizards, hearts & livers for us.

The broilers we raised last time were so much better than store bought birds & our own farm fresh eggs are a great alternative too.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Hellav8ted said:


> It was there that I learned how important large grazing mammals are to an ecosystem. 10 acres of high quality pasture mixed with trees, with cows and chickens grazing and pooping is so much more biodiverse, healthy, and productive than 10 acres of nothing but corn.


I agree that pasture land is more eco-friendly than a corn field, but neither are as eco-friendly as the forest that was probably there to begin with.

Unfortunatly most of the meat in this country doesn't come from small, sustainable and eco-friendly farms like you worked on. It comes from HUGE industial feed lots that are horrible for the environment, or from destroying the Amazon for grazing land. If all meat could come from a place like you worked it would be utopia, but that unfortunately is simply not the case.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Wow a lot of veggie haters out there.

I am a long term veggie, and very healthy, but i cannot stress enough this is not easy to do properly.

The main issue you have is keeping up the protein if you exercise a lot.

There are too many people who just cut meat out their diets and do not replace it, get weak, get sick and give up. Others just keep eating a ton of low protein food to try and get enough and get fat.

I use to try really hard to get the protein naturally, but realized I was just restricting an already restricted diet.

1 protein fruit smoothie every day does wonders.
I have about 60g of protein in each shake.

Also there is no reason to completely cut meat out of your diet. Quite a few of my friends eat veggie at home, but when eating out, just get what looks best.
Make meat a treat, not a staple.

Food is very varied (as long as you supp with protein), and it can be a very healthy diet.


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

CaveGiant said:


> Make meat a treat, not a staple.
> 
> .


That sums up my diet, vegan meals at home with my wife and occasionally eat meat when we go out or at lunch


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

sean salach said:


> Animal fats do contain the highest concentration calories, but they're really bad for you.


No, animal fats are not bad for you, in fact they are one of the healthiest things you can eat.

Watch the fat head movie, do some research. Carbs, vegetable oils, and a low fat diet are causing health problems. Fat was never a problem.


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

Hellav8ted said:


> I learned how important large grazing mammals are to an ecosystem. 10 acres of high quality pasture mixed with trees, with cows and chickens grazing and pooping is so much more biodiverse, healthy, and productive....


I found that it is not only the poop but also getting the dead grazed down so the plants don't have anything to hold them back in the spring. I love the way the field look this time of year. Fresh and new....










We raise chickens for eggs. When we go out for breakfast now we are amazed at the eggs you get. Runny, yellow yoke instead of dark orange, etc. We tried raising chickens for meat but man that is a lot of work - end to end - incubation thru slaughter. Our chickens get to run around all day and are layer breeds. This makes them really TOUGH and only good for the crock-pot.










Red meat - we buy a ¼ every year from a local guy that raises the cows on grass only and no unnecessary shots. We go to the butcher shop and vacuum pack with the Seal a Meal as the he hands us each cut. This extends the storage time easily 4x over just wrapping and freezing.

I'm not down on veggies. What every works for you is fine with me. I eat meat because it smells good&#8230;


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## bazooka_beard (Aug 6, 2010)

I went vegetarian last December, more as a challenge to myself and to see if I could stop eating meat for a whole year, and I gotta admit, I dont really miss meat at all. When the year is up, I'll probably eat meat in moderation, but I have found that food is much more interesting and rewarding when you prepare it yourself and control as much of the process as possible. I'll probably never look back on fast food.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

I love the farmers market. It's the only place I buy meat from on the off chance I feel like having some( once a year or so). I also try to eat as little dairy as possible. I love vegetables so it's not hard for me to have a good tasty meal. I have a friend who is veg and hates most veggies. He's healthy though and eats a lot. I just think it's funny/ weird. Are there other people like that? Who don't eat meat and only like a very few amount of the vegetables out there? Or is he an isolated case?


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

Vege's heal faster. The sickest I have ever been is when I got a spinal strep infection in a disc. In the spinal fluid it's called menningitis. Dr's told me it'd take 12 months to get back to normal. In 3 1/2 months I was on a MTB trip riding southern Utah. Vegetarians DO heal faster, but some sprains just take fovrever. 
Try spirulina before your next ride, you'll feel stronger, longer.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

abegold said:


> Vege's heal faster.


Blanket assumption based on anecdotal evidence.....


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

gghurst said:


> No, animal fats are not bad for you, in fact they are one of the healthiest things you can eat.
> 
> Watch the fat head movie, do some research. Carbs, vegetable oils, and a low fat diet are causing health problems. Fat was never a problem.


Best of luck with that. Let's get together in 30 years and see who's opinion has changed. I've done plenty of research. The overwhelming majority of what's out there says that you are believing lies if you believe what you posted there. The vast majority also thought the earth was flat at one point, but I'm gonna go with my gut and keep minimizing my consumption of animal fats.


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## petrjanda (May 8, 2011)

Not a vegetarian, but I believe people should eat whatever food they have grown up with (unless it's really "junk food"). It's what your body has been accustomed to during your formative years, and drastically changing it can't have a positive effect on you.


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

sean salach said:


> Best of luck with that. Let's get together in 30 years and see who's opinion has changed. I've done plenty of research. The overwhelming majority of what's out there says that you are believing lies if you believe what you posted there. The vast majority also thought the earth was flat at one point, but I'm gonna go with my gut and keep minimizing my consumption of animal fats.


I had missed that one, it certainly was an obtuse statement.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

I gave up red meat about 3 or 4 years ago. I recently did a 4-day fast and dropped poultry too. I will occasionally eat fish but for the most part I eat vegetarian. The last few years my annual wellness test has been off the charts, they usually freak out since my numbers are perfect across the board. Overall, I just prefer to not eat meat. I wouldn’t call it humanitarian as it is I just can’t stomach it (sort of listening to your body what it likes and doesn’t). To each his own if it’s not your thing. 

The Vegan approach is pretty strict (seems like you’d really have to be cautious). I find Veggie to be fairly easy. But back to the OP question, give up red meat first, then phase out other things. I really think if you try and give up too much from the beginning it isn’t healthy. But again, it’s staying in tune with your body.


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## simpterfex (Nov 14, 2010)

I was a vegan there for about 4 years until I moved back to Alaska. Finding fresh food up here can be expensive (especially in the bush) so I had to modify my diet. I still eat a predominantly vegan diet skipping butter, cheese and anything factory farmed and consume only local or wild Alaskan animal products. I have to admit killing your own will give you a new respect for the meat you eat. There are too many positive attributes to supporting your local producers to list. You could call it the Eat Local Diet...


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## Metalized (Apr 1, 2009)

stumblemumble said:


> I've always enjoyed bacon and steak as much as the next guy, but I've read a few books now that really make me question the trust we give to the meat industries. So I'm considering dropping meat altogether.
> The question is, how do you do it? How can you get enough calories after a long ride? How do you not get bored of rice and beans?


I'd suggest you start buying organic meats, rather than going to vegan or vegetarian, if your concerns are limited to ethics, etc.


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## Front_Runner (Apr 26, 2011)

Becoming a vegetarian while trying to be an athlete is like declaring you want to have as much sex as possible, and then cutting off your penis.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

Front_Runner said:


> Becoming a vegetarian while trying to be an athlete is like declaring you want to have as much sex as possible, and then cutting off your penis.


What does eating meat have to do with becoming an athlete? I'm sure Carl Lewis would like to hear your opinion.


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## Taranis (Dec 30, 2009)

I try to avoid labels. I'm not a vegetarian, I eat meat once in a while (about 2 a week and only lean meat.). Because I do not eat allot of meat, when I do eat it I can afford to select the best quality cuts, sourced from the most reputable farms. Growing up on a farm I think of livestock as food, but I still dont like to see animals treated badly and my only problem with meat is in the factory production of it. 
Our diets have changed in the last 100 years to include meat in every meal and as far as I can tell this is not optimal for our bodies, the food chain or the animals.


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## bazooka_beard (Aug 6, 2010)

Front_Runner said:


> Becoming a vegetarian while trying to be an athlete is like declaring you want to have as much sex as possible, and then cutting off your penis.


This may be one of the most ridiculous, uneducated things I've read in a while. I actually feel that cutting meat from my diet has improved my ability and endurance.


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## Trilogy (Jul 19, 2009)

Vegan for 15 years. (I eat cheese occasionally)


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

*P*eople 
*E*ating
*T*asty 
*A*nimals
Where's the best place to shoot a large animal? Real close to your truck.
Vegetatian biker? Yes, when I don't close my mouth when I hit a low-hanging limb.


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Carnivores (predators) have their eys on the front of their heads & binocular vision for depth perception when pursuiong prey. (herbivores)

Herbivores/vegetarians (prey species) have their eyes on the sides of their heads for wide peripheral vision to detect predators.

Where on your head are your eyes located?

To be honest we are, like (some) bears, omnivores. Our teeth are designed for eating both meat & fruit/vegetables. We are still designed by mother nature as predators non the less.

Anyone on either extreme of this argument is going against nature.

A healthy human diet consists of both animal & plant tissues.


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Double post!


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Cedarbranchbiker1 said:


> *P*eople
> *E*ating
> *T*asty
> *A*nimals
> ...


*We should make room on this planet for all of god's creatures......*

*
Right next to the mashed potatos & gravy.*










:thumbsup:


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## storz (Jan 31, 2011)

Front_Runner said:


> Becoming a vegetarian while trying to be an athlete is like declaring you want to have as much sex as possible, and then cutting off your penis.


Thats just ignorance speaking sorry.


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

I was anti-vegetarian for decades. If it walked ON the ground I ate it. If it lived IN the ground, I would not eat it. Veggies/fruit would actually make me throw up when I ate them. I avoided the veggie isle at the store like it was the plague. 

In recent years I've had to change my diet for health reasons. I find myself eating very little meat and I find that the meat I do eat really doesn't taste as good as I remember. I actually enjoy trying to come up with new ways of enjoying veggies. It's new and exciting for me. and I no longer feel like killing people on a daily basis.....


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

PNJ, you said:
"I no longer feel like killing people on a daily basis".
Er, exactly what kind of meat were you eating?


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## velocycling (Dec 10, 2010)

XCski bum
Since your teeth are so good. I dare you to eat that deer no cooking, or knives. Only raw with your predator teeth. Please post pics of that.


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)




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## ss85 (Jan 14, 2009)

quick addition.

I always like it when anatomy comes up in these discussions, especially canine teeth. A more appropriate thing to consider is intestine length - strict carnivores have short intestines. Is the human intestine long or short? Does our appendix work? How might anatomy and diet influence individual susceptibility to cancers?

Some things to consider.


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## Front_Runner (Apr 26, 2011)

dixie whiskey said:


> What does eating meat have to do with becoming an athlete? I'm sure Carl Lewis would like to hear your opinion.


Good call. Wait...

Carl Lewis is in the top .01% of the genetically gifted athletes. And he was taking performance-enhancing drugs.

So, what was your point in bringing up Carl Lewis' name again?


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## Front_Runner (Apr 26, 2011)

bazooka_beard said:


> This may be one of the most ridiculous, uneducated things I've read in a while. I actually feel that cutting meat from my diet has improved my ability and endurance.





storz said:


> Thats just ignorance speaking sorry.


As soon as anyone wants to provide some evidence that not eating meat is more advantageous than eating meat to become and athlete, I'm all ears.

Before you morons start throwing out your n=1 theories, I'll go ahead and disqualify the following:
-Saying "I think cutting meat has made me a better athlete" is not provable, and means nothing
-Saying "I know <Great Athlete X> that doesn't eat meat" is equally retarded.

Again, the debate isn't whether you can be an athlete AND a vegan, but which is better than the other.

Fire away.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

Front_Runner said:


> As soon as anyone wants to provide some evidence that not eating meat is more advantageous than eating meat to become and athlete, I'm all ears.
> 
> Before you morons start throwing out your n=1 theories, I'll go ahead and disqualify the following:
> -Saying "I think cutting meat has made me a better athlete" is not provable, and means nothing
> ...


And classifying anyone for your proposition of debate as "morons" beforehand automatically demonstrates your own ignorance to intellectual deposition and thus non-worthy of response.


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## Front_Runner (Apr 26, 2011)

I was only referring to the morons that have already chimed in and shown themselves to be utter retards on the subject. You're one of them.


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## longfinkillie (Jan 28, 2011)

Bulls, Rhinos, Elephants, Moose, Buffalo etc. are some of the baddest a$$ed _vegetarian_ animals on earth, including me. So who is exactly at the bottom of the food chain?


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

longfinkillie said:


> Bulls, Rhinos, Elephants, Moose, Buffalo etc. are some of the baddest a$$ed _vegetarian_ animals on earth, including me. So who is exactly at the bottom of the food chain?


I kinda like this photo better. He really "took one on the chin"


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## longfinkillie (Jan 28, 2011)

Ole!


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

velocycling said:


> XCski bum
> Since your teeth are so good. I dare you to eat that deer no cooking, or knives. Only raw with your predator teeth. Please post pics of that.


Until man invented tools, knives, atlatls, bows, etc, he could not harvest large game.

Man was limited to what small creatures he could catch by hand & eat W/his OMNIVORE teeth. bugs, lizards, snakes etc.

Once man gained the ability of harvesting, butchering & cooking larger PREY, it was only natural for him to take advantage of the much more effiicient means of ingesting PROTIEN.

It was the atlatl & bow that allowed man to make the leap from inefficient individual HUNTER/gatherers to efficient predators which lead to civilization & agriculture.

Since I AM a civilized human, I do not need to eat my meat raw.

BTW: Since you are such an efficient vegetarian, I dare you plant, harvest & eat some fruits & veggies W/O any tools. No hoes, cultivators, shovels, etc.

No trips to the store in your car either just your bare hands & feet. Please post pics of THAT.


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

sean salach said:


> Best of luck with that. Let's get together in 30 years and see who's opinion has changed. I've done plenty of research. The overwhelming majority of what's out there says that you are believing lies if you believe what you posted there. The vast majority also thought the earth was flat at one point, but I'm gonna go with my gut and keep minimizing my consumption of animal fats.


Thanks, I'm certain that my diet will provide me with excellent health, especially 30 years from now. The overwhelming majority of non-biased clinical studies show time and time again that a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet improve all health markers, cholesterol, reverse artherosclerosis, etc. In 30 years the 'saturated fat clogs your arteries' myth will be truly busted.

If you have any research at all that shows that a high fat diet, truly low carb, diet is bad for you in any way, please share it. "I'm going to go with my gut" is what got everybody in this mess in the first place, rather than believing scientific studies people just assumed fat is bad and that has worked it's way into "common knowledge". Fat head is free on hulu, although I don't know if you are even open to hearing information that is different than what you believe.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

gghurst said:


> Thanks, I'm certain that my diet will provide me with excellent health, especially 30 years from now. The overwhelming majority of non-biased clinical studies show time and time again that a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet improve all health markers, cholesterol, reverse artherosclerosis, etc. In 30 years the 'saturated fat clogs your arteries' myth will be truly busted.
> 
> If you have any research at all that shows that a high fat diet, truly low carb, diet is bad for you in any way, please share it. "I'm going to go with my gut" is what got everybody in this mess in the first place, rather than believing scientific studies people just assumed fat is bad and that has worked it's way into "common knowledge". Fat head is free on hulu, although I don't know if you are even open to hearing information that is different than what you believe.


Not signing up for Hulu to watch that. I've read about it and read reviews on both sides of it. You're insisting that all studies that don't support your viewpoint are biased, which hints that you think the studies that do support your viewpoint are unbiased is pretty funny. I'm still not going to take your advice. As before. Good luck with your diet, and see you in thirty years if I haven't died first from eating fruit and vegetables and avoiding animal fats, as I surely will.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

Ovo-lacto for 19 years. Meat made me feel sick and achy when I ate it. Dairy and eggs still do to to some extent when I over do them. 

The only political arguments that I cared about were the inefficiency of the process of meat production and the studies pointing to beef/pork/poultry produced methane as pretty significant greenhouse contributors. I realize I still contribute to these w/ my dairy products, but I like my ice cream, milk shakes, cheese, and eggs too much.

It's pretty damn easy to do a tasty, varied, healthy athlete's diet ovo-lacto unless you live in the middle of nowhere or are completely destitute.

The only good plant based meat substitutes I haven't been able to find are fish and bacon. You'd be surprised at how close you can get to the texture of beef, chicken, and pork w/ seitan.


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

sean salach said:


> Not signing up for Hulu to watch that. I've read about it and read reviews on both sides of it. You're insisting that all studies that don't support your viewpoint are biased, which hints that you think the studies that do support your viewpoint are unbiased is pretty funny. I'm still not going to take your advice. As before. Good luck with your diet, and see you in thirty years if I haven't died first from eating fruit and vegetables and avoiding animal fats, as I surely will.


You don't have to sign up for hulu. Click the link and the movie plays. http://www.hulu.com/watch/196879/fat-head.

You are putting words into my mouth, so I'll just say that I agree that there are biased studies being done on both sides of the argument. It's hard to do an objective scientific study and get it right. Fruit and vegetables are probably fine, it's the grains that get a lot of people. There is nothing wrong with fat and your body needs it to function. If you have any references to studies that you think are not biased, or which have convinced you that fat is bad (even if they are biased), then I'm interested. Please share.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

gghurst said:


> You don't have to sign up for hulu. Click the link and the movie plays. http://www.hulu.com/watch/196879/fat-head.
> 
> You are putting words into my mouth, so I'll just say that I agree that there are biased studies being done on both sides of the argument. It's hard to do an objective scientific study and get it right. Fruit and vegetables are probably fine, it's the grains that get a lot of people. There is nothing wrong with fat and your body needs it to function. If you have any references to studies that you think are not biased, or which have convinced you that fat is bad (even if they are biased), then I'm interested. Please share.


I was going to add that I have limited download speeds due to living in a cabin as well. I have netflix but can't watch online, and have to let 5 minute youtube vids load for 20 minutes while I go do something else. So, no, I won't be watching a farsical movie made by your highly esteemed stand up comedian expert.

Not bothered to dig up and share studies with you either because A: I don't care enough about this thread and B: I'm very much in favor of seeing people dumb enough to believe that crap falling victim to natural selection. Too many people in this world.

pssst.... I never said fat is bad and unnecessary. I said animal fat is bad for us to consume. Vegetable oil is fat. Nuts and seeds contain fat.


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Just for my own info, are there not some "vegetable" oils bad for you? Palm oil and cottonseed oil come to mind.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Cedarbranchbiker1 said:


> Just for my own info, are there not some "vegetable" oils bad for you? Palm oil and cottonseed oil come to mind.


Yes.


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

gghurst said:


> Thanks, I'm certain that my diet will provide me with excellent health, especially 30 years from now......


Are you only eating organic fruits and vegetables?

My wife's family are Central Cali farmers. They grow grapes, green beans, strawberries, etc. My brother in law with the grapes has some stout warning about THROUGHTLY washing the grapes because of the amount of chemicals they now have to spray on them. He said 20-30 years ago they would just dust them with sulfur. There were predator insects - ladybugs killing aphids, grass around the base of plants, etc. Now it is scorched earth, no 'weeds' or no insects anywhere. The pests have evolved to be pesticide resistant and the levels of toxicity keeps going up. He will NOT eat raisins. They are picked and dried without washing.

Good luck. Pancreatic cancer might be in your future&#8230;

Why have Americans historically been larger and stronger than other countries with lower protein levels?

There is an old saying - everything in moderation.


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## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

I really don't know what it is about vegetarian discussions that bring the insecurities out of people that don't agree with the diet, but i've never seen a vegetarian post on any forum that doesn't degrade into this very same mumbo jumbo.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

abegold said:


> Vege's heal faster. The sickest I have ever been is when I got a spinal strep infection in a disc. In the spinal fluid it's called menningitis. Dr's told me it'd take 12 months to get back to normal. In 3 1/2 months I was on a MTB trip riding southern Utah. Vegetarians DO heal faster, but some sprains just take fovrever.
> Try spirulina before your next ride, you'll feel stronger, longer.


Your sample of ONE does not a study make, my friend.

Makes me think of my extremely fast Cat 1 racer who claims that the coconut milk he is drinking is the key to it all. He could drink Coke and make the same claim, and the sheeple would follow suit. The boy is simply fit and fast, and not because of his drink choices.


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

sean salach said:


> I was going to add that I have limited download speeds due to living in a cabin as well. I have netflix but can't watch online, and have to let 5 minute youtube vids load for 20 minutes while I go do something else. So, no, I won't be watching a farsical movie made by your highly esteemed stand up comedian expert.
> 
> Not bothered to dig up and share studies with you either because A: I don't care enough about this thread and B: I'm very much in favor of seeing people dumb enough to believe that crap falling victim to natural selection. Too many people in this world.
> 
> pssst.... I never said fat is bad and unnecessary. I said animal fat is bad for us to consume. Vegetable oil is fat. Nuts and seeds contain fat.


So you dismiss the movie entirely because it was made by a comedian? Ok, what about the research covered in the movie, or the interviews with doctors and scientists? Your argument that animal fat is bad is baseless. Vegetable oils cause the body to produce the small, dense kind of LDL cholesterol, which is what clogs up the arteries. Animal fats result in large, fluffy LDL cholesterol which heals arteries. And why bother calling me dumb when you can't even provide the slightest bit of evidence that animal fat is actually bad? I'm not calling you names or attacking you personally.


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

Cedarbranchbiker1 said:


> Just for my own info, are there not some "vegetable" oils bad for you? Palm oil and cottonseed oil come to mind.


Corn, canola, soybean, etc. oils are all bad for you and ideally would never be consumed by anyone. They cause the level of small, dense LDL cholesterol to increase in the body. These particles are what clogs up arteries. Animals fats cause an increase of large, fluffy LDL cholesterol, which actually heals arteries. People are only just now starting to realize the flaws in the Lipid Hypothesis and arguments against cholesterol. Safe oils are olive and coconut, but I encourage you to do your own research.

If you think that vegetable oils are good for you, then start with a stack of corn plants and make your own. You'll need a warehouse for the industrial equipment and a lot of chemicals for bleaching and deodorizing. We didn't evolve eating anything like vegetable oils.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

Keepthechange said:


> I really don't know what it is about vegetarian discussions that bring the insecurities out of people that don't agree with the diet, but i've never seen a vegetarian post on any forum that doesn't degrade into this very same mumbo jumbo.


+1

It's all pretty silly IMO, eat/don't eat what ever the hell you want and I'll do the same is how I look at it. Chances are pretty slim that anyone is going to convince the other that they're right or wrong, especially once the dick measuring starts coming into play.

Unless the OP was trolling, I think he was looking for some practical advice on how to make a vegetarian diet work, not a bunch of cute Nugent-isms and bickering.


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

Sid Nitzerglobin said:


> +1
> 
> It's all pretty silly IMO, eat/don't eat what ever the hell you want and I'll do the same is how I look at it.


Totally agree. I did a lot of long distance backpacking when I was younger. A couple of trips were the JMT (200mi) and the PCT from Tahoe to Whitney (400mi). Pretty much a veggie diet but the first thing you did when you went to town every two week for resupply was get some sugar and then some meat. I did just fine on the veggie diet climbing passes, etc.

I was just trying to point out that no matter what you eat there are risks. More veggies gives you a high exposure to herbicides and pesticides chemicals. There are lot cattle around here grazing on grass. I only see them occasionally spot spraying noxious weeds like thistle. Cows don't eat thistle - no chems ingested there. Remember the rancher doesn't want to spend money on chemicals if he doesn't have too.

I think where some have taken exception is when someone is stating you will heal faster, be healthier and livelonger if you are veggie with no proof.

March on and eat what you want&#8230;


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

dead_dog_canyon said:


> Are you only eating organic fruits and vegetables?
> 
> My wife's family are Central Cali farmers. They grow grapes, green beans, strawberries, etc. My brother in law with the grapes has some stout warning about THROUGHTLY washing the grapes because of the amount of chemicals they now have to spray on them. He said 20-30 years ago they would just dust them with sulfur. There were predator insects - ladybugs killing aphids, grass around the base of plants, etc. Now it is scorched earth, no 'weeds' or no insects anywhere. The pests have evolved to be pesticide resistant and the levels of toxicity keeps going up. He will NOT eat raisins. They are picked and dried without washing.
> 
> ...


I eat mostly beef, pork, fruit, vegetables, and nuts. Nothing processed, no grains, no vegetable oil. Pesticides can cause cancer and probably have in many people. Even organic produce is sometimes sprayed with pesticides after it's picked. Apparently when they do that they can still call it organic. What about my diet singles me out for pancreatic cancer?

People in general are stronger when they eat protein, of course. It's required to build muscle.


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## Bilirubin (Mar 6, 2010)

gghurst said:


> Corn, canola, soybean, etc. oils are all bad for you and ideally would never be consumed by anyone. They cause the level of small, dense LDL cholesterol to increase in the body. These particles are what clogs up arteries. Animals fats cause an increase of large, fluffy LDL cholesterol, which actually heals arteries. People are only just now starting to realize the flaws in the Lipid Hypothesis and arguments against cholesterol. Safe oils are olive and coconut, but* I encourage you to do your own research*.
> 
> If you think that vegetable oils are good for you, then start with a stack of corn plants and make your own. You'll need a warehouse for the industrial equipment and a lot of chemicals for bleaching and deodorizing. We didn't evolve eating anything like vegetable oils.


I have, on the Mayo Clinic site, and the AHA site, and basically what you said is a confused mishmash of mostly incorrect information.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

For those interested, I might suggest looking into the Paleo diet (aka caveman diet). As cited from here: "Paleolithic diet consists mainly of meat, fish, vegetables, fruit, roots, and nuts, and excludes grains, legumes, dairy products, salt, refined sugar, and processed oils."

I have been pretty much have eaten this way for about 10+ years. Just recently gave up poultry and eat more vegetarian. However, the caveman diet makes good practical sense in way of eating lean. Some years back I used to actively train in the gym and I ate this way (most proteins from supplements and lean meats like fish and poultry). I've never been a steak person, but I assume some cuts classify as lean as well.

I'd also agree with the above. Vegetarian eating/lifestyle is like abortion or left/right thinking. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however sometimes in practicality it's not worth the debate (as has been noted). Especially since the OP was looking for general guidance.


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## gghurst (Apr 17, 2006)

Bilirubin said:


> I have, on the Mayo Clinic site, and the AHA site, and basically what you said is a confused mishmash of mostly incorrect information.


The Mayo link actually backs me up here. Eating saturated fat raises total cholesterol, this is not a bad thing. HDL cholesterol is good, low density LDL cholesterol is good. Trans fats raise high density LDL cholesterol, which is the bad one. What are trans fats? Vegetable oils.

The AHA link is actually the mishmash of incorrect information. "Too much cholesterol in the blood can lead to cardiovascular disease." Wrong, never proven by any study. A low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet lowers cholesterol in the blood. Wrong, the opposite is proven in study after study. A high fat, high cholesterol diet lowers cholesterol, specifically the high density LDL. The information being pushed by the AHA is directly responsible for the high rates of heart disease among other problems like diabetes and obesity. It will take some time, but eventually they will have to change their advice or we can just choose to ignore it because of obvious damage it is causing.


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

> For those interested, I might suggest looking into the Paleo diet (aka caveman diet).


Bring on some of them Fred Flintstone ribs,like turns your car over, I'm all for it. 
would try the paleo, but I'm fresh out of wooly mammoth and mastodon.


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## dead_dog_canyon (Sep 8, 2010)

gghurst said:


> What about my diet singles me out for pancreatic cancer?


Nothing, the 'pancreatic' was merely meant as a generalization.

My apologies sir!
After reading the all the new posts I scrolled back looking for the one that was claiming people that eat meat were at a much higher risk of dieing than those that don't. I quoted the wrong post....


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

> people that eat meat were at a much higher risk of dieing than those that don't.


ANYONE who eats ANYTHING will die sooner or later.

Eat right, exercise regularly, and die anyway.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Made a nice veggie lentil soup I thought some of you might like. :thumbsup:

Lentil Soup...
1 Tbs Extra Virgin Olive Oil
5 cloves garlic (minced)
1 medium onion (minced)
2 stalks celery (chopped)
6-8 cups low-salt Veggie broth
1 pint fresh quartered crimini mushrooms
1.5 cups assorted lentils (soak for 4-6 hours and rinse before use)
1 tbsp crushed red pepper
1/2 cup medium pearled barley
1.5 tsp. dried thyme leaves
2 medium carrots (chopped)
1 tsp ground cumin
1 package Gimme Lean sausage 
2 tbsp Tomato Paste
2 tsp. Worchestershire sauce
2 bay leaves
salt
pepper
1 tbs Fresh parsley










Heat Olive oil in big pot. Add garlic, onion, carrots, red pepper, and celery.










Cook 4-5 minutes until onion soften. Add 6 cups broth, mushrooms, lentils, barley, thyme, cumin, and tomato paste.










Brown sausage in 1 tbs olive oil in another skillet. Add a little crushed red pepper, cumin, curry, and cinnamon (JUST A LITTLE HERE).










Add to big pot. Add in Worcestershire, bay leaves, and adjust seasoning.










Stir well and boil 75-90 minutes until lentils are soft. Add broth as needed.

Garnish with fresh chopped parsley and fresh grater parmigiana.


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## BUSTELO (Feb 3, 2012)

stumblemumble said:


> I've always enjoyed bacon and steak as much as the next guy, but I've read a few books now that really make me question the trust we give to the meat industries. So I'm considering dropping meat altogether.
> The question is, how do you do it? How can you get enough calories after a long ride? How do you not get bored of rice and beans?


 why not try wild game meat, or buffalo, goat or lamb? wild game and buffalo meat can be a lean source of protein.God made me a carnivore:cornut: processed meats are truly evil **** with carcinogens.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

BUSTELO said:


> why not try wild game meat, or buffalo, goat or lamb? wild game and buffalo meat can be a lean source of protein. *Evolution* made me an *omnivore* :cornut: processed meats are truly evil **** with carcinogens.


FIFY.

*Please let's not make this a debate about religion/diet. those things tend to go south at record speeds. I'm merely making a joke; let's just say you have your opinion, I have mine, and neither of us are going to change the others mind and leave it at that.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

pointerDexter214: that looks so good. I'm definitely going to try making it.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Dave Zabriskie is a vegetarian AND a top pro rider. Link


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Interesting topic......

I just had my annual physical last week. My 'bad' cholesterol (LDL) shot up into the high zone and it's scaring the heck out of me. I'm only in my mid 30's, not fat and have had luck on my side health wise until now. I practiced and preached to my peers a high protein/low carb diet. In fact I have a copy of 'Why we get fat' right next to me as I write this (interesting read btw). I ate lots of eggs, poultry... and avoided carbs, especially breads and pasta. Rarely, I would splurge on pizza or some junk food, but I would recover quickly and get back on my low carb diet. So now I'm re-thinking all of this. Maybe low carb diets work great for people who aren't genetically susceptible to high cholesterol, but it seems that for me it's been straight up dangerous! My cholesterol was normal before I started my low carb lifestyle. That's my experience, lesson learned. Get your cholesterol checked if you eat a lot of red meat, eggs and fat even if you are young. Hopefully you will be normal. I'm going back to complex carbs, vegetables and occasional lean white meats.


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

I've been a vegetarian for a about 5 years now and haven't really thought about going back to eating meat. I was honestly a meat and potatoes guy, maybe some butter slathered corn or cheese coated green beans before...and was obese. Before I became a vegetarian though, I made a decision to exercise more and eat healthier and lost heaps of weight. It wasn't until I went on a back packing trip driving from VT through to the southwest and back that I decided to become vegetarian. I drove by some meat plants in the midwest.....that was disturbing. Literally as far as the eye could see - cattle packed in together, how they could move I can't even guess. That started me thinking about ethical farming practices. Currently, I own a veggie farm share with a local farmer so I get several pounds of fresh veggies and local cheese, eggs, bread, beans and grains - all organic and/or free range. I don't care what anyone says, I taste and feel the difference between store bought non-organic veggies and the stuff I get straight from the farmer. It works out pretty close to even in terms of money. They also have a meat share for those so inclined. This is the way to go in my opinion, support local farmers and commerce, keep your money in your community where you'll more likely see the benefits AND get great, fresh, tastey food for about the same price.

On another note - I've heard the argument about energy levels being less as a vegetarian but I have personally never had an issue. If anything, I feel I have far more energy as a veg than I ever did while eating meat. I've done many 60-70 mile rides without a stop. Epic hikes. I even did a 2000 mile bike tour without so much as a problem with energy, I rarely bonk. It's all about balance I think - and curiously enough, it wasn't until I restricted my diet that I actually started eating stuff from varied food groups. Just my experience, not claiming it works for everyone or that it's better than anything else.


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## Cedarbranchbiker1 (Apr 7, 2011)

If you want to be a vegan, that's your choice. No flack from me. I love veggies, especially the ones I grow, much better flavor than "grocery store veggies'.I have occasionally become a vegan while riding with my mouth open and not seeing a low hanging limb. Vegans have to be careful to get proper nutrients missing from "vegetables" that are normally present in "meat". 
Interesting thing, my father had normal cholesterol but had to have bypass surgery twice. BUT, my mother was the one with high cholesterol. Never a hint of cardiac problems. She's 86 now.
BTW, I always thought a "Vegan" came from a planet that circled the star Vega. (My daughters would say, "that's not funny". Children, no respect.)


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

^^You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

Double post, because I ****ing can, *****es.


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## natzx7 (May 30, 2007)

I'm a vegetarian, I only eat a small amount of good dairy. I've been veg for about 5 years now, and at 42 in the best shape of my life. Of course, if you eat meat that has been raised naturally, you can still be very healthy as long as its incorporated into your diet correctly. I feel some vegetarians fall into the "carb trap" and inatvertently load up on carbs and actually gain weight. Proper nutritional balance is the key. The cheap meat being raised today is a health hazard, IMO. Plus, I like animals, among the myriad other reasons to be veg.


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## natzx7 (May 30, 2007)

I'm a vegetarian, I only eat a small amount of good dairy. I've been veg for about 5 years now, and at 42 in the best shape of my life. Of course, if you eat meat that has been raised naturally, you can still be very healthy as long as its incorporated into your diet correctly. I feel some vegetarians fall into the "carb trap" and inatvertently load up on carbs and actually gain weight. Proper nutritional balance is the key. The cheap meat being raised today is a health hazard, IMO. Plus, I like animals, among the myriad other reasons to be veg.


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## Cracker69 (Oct 30, 2006)

The paleo diet makes plenty of sense to me. Meat, veggies, fruits, nuts and few mass crop foods. It works for my physiology and keeps me alert and functioning. I take in carbs in the form of oats and such when exercising as liberating the calories from fat is a trickle when I require a flood. 

I have read a great many of these back and fourth discussions about diets. Its remarkable what we can function on. We are true omnivores able to consume and process all manner of foods - Atkins to Vegan. Everyone thinks they have the answer to health and longevity. The fact is it is hard to know. I disagree with notions that "natural" foods are inherently healthy. Nature is adversarial and not even one other life-form on this planet evolved altruistically for our benefit. Sure we adapted to what was available and not toxic, but small amounts of toxicity can be found in everything. As such I say the moderate path is best. I don't want to eat meat exclusively, nor do I want to eat 70+ bananas a day. Meat, Veggies, Fruit, Nuts, and some amount of grains does me fine.....


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Cracker69 said:


> Everyone thinks they have the answer to health and longevity.


This is where I'm at too Cracker. I think the absolute most important part of diet is knowing how certain foods affect you. Some people are lactose intolerant. Some gluten intolerant. Some can't handle nuts, etc.

So many people are willing to change their diet because some new fad says this, or they read something in the paper than tells them to do that.

Your body tells you way more than most people recognise (which I'm sure many of you know). Just because something works for the next guy, doesn't mean it will work for me.

I haven't eaten dairy for about 3 years now. I used to get hay fever so bad - coughing and sneezing and spluttering, eyes puffed up and itchy. Simply dropping them out of my diet has sorted that out for me. It took years of troubleshooting on my own body, but there's no chance I'll ever eat dairy again - it's just not worth it to ME (which is my point, other people would value their dairy as more important, which is fine).


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## 2fargon (Jan 22, 2011)

Cracker69 said:


> The paleo diet makes plenty of sense to me. Meat, veggies, fruits, nuts and few mass crop foods. It works for my physiology and keeps me alert and functioning. I take in carbs in the form of oats and such when exercising as liberating the calories from fat is a trickle when I require a flood.
> 
> I have read a great many of these back and fourth discussions about diets. Its remarkable what we can function on. We are true omnivores able to consume and process all manner of foods - Atkins to Vegan. Everyone thinks they have the answer to health and longevity. The fact is it is hard to know. I disagree with notions that "natural" foods are inherently healthy. Nature is adversarial and not even one other life-form on this planet evolved altruistically for our benefit. Sure we adapted to what was available and not toxic, but small amounts of toxicity can be found in everything. As such I say the moderate path is best. I don't want to eat meat exclusively, nor do I want to eat 70+ bananas a day. Meat, Veggies, Fruit, Nuts, and some amount of grains does me fine.....


Couldn't have said it better. I've eaten vegan for about a year now (for many reasons) and it works for me but I think a well executed paleo diet would work just as well. I'll just leave it at that.


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