# What spokes for IGH?



## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

Rohloff states in their website


> Lacing a SPEEDHUB with extra thick 2.3mm spokes is not permitted. Doing so may well result in hub shell warranty loss.


How about Shimano's Nexus and Alfine 8-speed hubs?
Should one not use Sapim's strong or DT Swiss Alpine spokes? They are single-butted, 2.3 mm at the hub and 2 mm at the nipple.


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## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

Did you use Sapim strong or DT Swiss Alpine spokes for Nexus/Alfine 8-speed hubs?


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

I can highly recommend the sapim polyax nipples - with the large flange diameter of an alfine hub I had excessive angles at the rim & was breaking spokes at the start of the thread & polyax nipples have eliminated that failure.










I use Sapim race so can't comment from experience on the Sapim strong or DT alpine spokes.

Anything I have learnt is from Roger Musson's book and he has this to say about the Sapim strong & DT Alpine


> Oversized spoke elbows are *not* a cure for spoke breakages, good building technique solves spoke breakages, nor do they give the wheel added strength. With today's higher grade of steel, the standard double butted spoke is more than strong enough for all wheels and consequently I have never used these oversized spokes. If you decide to use these large diameters spokes then make sure they pass through the spoke holes in your hub


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I built a couple of Alfines to Marge Lites with DT Swiss Champion spokes. They built up fine.


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## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

What was the spoke-crossing?



find_bruce said:


> I can highly recommend the sapim polyax nipples - with the large flange diameter of an alfine hub I had excessive angles at the rim & was breaking spokes at the start of the thread & polyax nipples have eliminated that failure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

anga said:


> What was the spoke-crossing?


3 x


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## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

Shimano recommends 2 x


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## eugenemtbing (Nov 16, 2010)

Steve at SRLPE is just finishing an Alfine 8/WTB i23 build for me. It has prompted a similar discussion in the Wheels and Tires forum:

Effect of spoke crossing number on spoke angles http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=891295


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## eugenemtbing (Nov 16, 2010)

Steve (4slomo on MTBR) has finished my wheel. Here is a photo and Steve's usual detail-oriented wheel-build report.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

anga said:


> Shimano recommends 2 x


Got a link? I have not found any shimano recommendation either way. [edit]for the Alfine 11, Shimano recommends 3x or 4x lacing, but not radial[/edit]

BTW in checking I noticed shimano use 2.3 1.8 2.3 spokes in their wheel but this has a different hub case to mine (fewer spokes & a couple of other differences)


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## anga (Aug 22, 2011)

find_bruce said:


> Got a link? I have not found any shimano recommendation either way. [edit]for the Alfine 11, Shimano recommends 3x or 4x lacing, but not radial[/edit]
> 
> BTW in checking I noticed shimano use 2.3 1.8 2.3 spokes in their wheel but this has a different hub case to mine (fewer spokes & a couple of other differences)


I noted some comments for a wheel-build but not the sources. IIRC, it was from a Shimano source. Couldn't find it on google either!! But several sources weighed towards 2-cross lacing for larger hubs. Some argue for 3-cross lacing.

Sapim states http://www.sapim.be/sites/default/files/checklist.pdf


> For extra large hub flanges like Nexus, Elan etc., which have a greater risk of spoke/nipple mis-alignment, you should cross 2.


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## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

I utilise Sapim CX-Rays with my Rohloff build.
I was going to go with Alpines but there was availability issues at the time.
Just as well as I found out later that using a 2.3mm spoke voids the Rohloff warranty and is expressly forbidden.
Glad I coughed up for the Rays.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

Due to the increased diameter of the hub flanges and PCD of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14, the spokes need cross only two times but do so at roughly the same angle as a three cross lacing pattern on smaller flanged hubs.
Alfine hubs are about the same size (and so are your rim and spokes).
I used 2x lacing in my 29" MTB, no problem. that was Alfine 8, DT Comp and brass nipples, Mavic TN719 rim.


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

If it's any help to you I built a wheel with an Alfine 8 hub, Sun Ringle EQ27 rim and DT Swiss 2.0/1.8mm spokes about three years ago - I laced that 3X, it's had plenty of hard use and never given any trouble.
I know some people recommend 2X on these hubs, and maybe that's how I should have built it, but I built up a second one about 18 months ago the same spec. as the first and that's been trouble free to date too. It's not had anywhere near the use of the first one though.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Andy R said:


> ...I know some people recommend 2X on these hubs, and maybe that's how I should have built it....


Yes, it's very obvious by the angle of the nipple, take a look at your nipples and report back.

If you know better and are building new, why would anyone build 3x?


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> If you know better and are building new, why would anyone build 3x?


Actually I don't "know better" ( I did say "maybe", BTW), I was simply saying what I did - and if I built one wheel, and used it pretty hard with no trouble for over a year and a half then, when I had need of another, why not build another identical one? I'm certainly not the only wheel builder to build Alfine hubs 3X - there's another one just above, for example. Seems like that guy knows what he's doing too?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Andy R said:


> ...Seems like that guy knows what he's doing too?


I've built thousands of wheels including wheels for RAAM winners and Olympic team members. I'd never build up an Alfine 3x because it's not optimal and the right configuration cost the same as the wrong one.


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

Well, when I regularly start breaking spokes at the nipple I'll rebuild them 2X. In the meantime we'll carry on as we are.
I'm not after every time I post on this forum it ending up as some sort of confrontation, it surely wouldn't in "real life" - we'd just chat about it over a beer.
This internet forum stuff just dehumanises people - there's an answer to that, of course....


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## Kevin NvKvN (Mar 16, 2021)

Andy R said:


> Well, when I regularly start breaking spokes at the nipple I'll rebuild them 2X. In the meantime we'll carry on as we are.
> I'm not after every time I post on this forum it ending up as some sort of confrontation, it surely wouldn't in "real life" - we'd just chat about it over a beer.
> This internet forum stuff just dehumanises people - there's an answer to that, of course....


How did it go with nipples on 3x lacing?


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

wrong topic, sorry....


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