# I find this disturbing..



## Arch Itech (Sep 29, 2010)

Another case of someone [email protected]#%ing the system.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-mountain-bike-injury-20120921,0,6418056.story


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## JRS73 (May 26, 2012)

Welcome to the "New United States of America". Everybody is a f***ing victim. What happened to "Owning up to your own stupidity or faults"?


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Yup. Everybody's a victim. Couple more like that and they'll probably close the park. Can't have people getting hurt on county property. Or just dumb it down...maybe pave the whole thing.

What a shame.

On another note...I got a scratch last week riding on state land. (True story). So whadya think? Pain and suffering? Emotional distress? 

Oughta be worth something.


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## Arch Itech (Sep 29, 2010)

JRS73 said:


> What happened to "Owning up to your own stupidity or faults"?


Went down the drain with all the rest of american virtues.. sad, isn't it?


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## cutthroat (Mar 2, 2004)

What is this "raised apparatus" of which they speak? Sounds dangerous!:skep:


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

cutthroat said:


> What is this "raised apparatus" of which they speak? Sounds dangerous!:skep:


Probably the kerbside.

If you are dumb enough to ride something that is way above your ability to ride and you take that risk and get injured, you don't deserve to start blaming everybody else for your own stupidity.:nono:
It's a shame that they are offering any money at all, considering she broke the rules of the bike park, by not signing the waiver and watching the required safety video first.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

he said raised apparatus ^


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## Arch Itech (Sep 29, 2010)

From what read, Raised apparatus = bicycle

Hey honey, I'm going out for a raised apparatus ride with the guys..


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

bamwa1 said:


> he said raised apparatus ^


It was a sad attempt at a joke to point out that said rider was not very competent, and was likely to consider the kerb as a raised apparatus.... It sounded better in my head lol.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

She rode on something she shouldn't have while riding illegally
Im sorry for her pain and suffering, however it is self-induced.
They should offer her nothing.
They should cite her for trespassing.

curmudgeonly yours


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## _Alberto_ (Sep 8, 2012)

Why would the state offer tax payer money to someone who clearly broke The rules?

This b!tch deserves to be Christopher Reeved for life.


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## TomactypeX (Aug 8, 2010)

mykel said:


> She rode on something she shouldn't have while riding illegally
> Im sorry for her pain and suffering, however it is self-induced.
> They should offer her nothing.
> They should cite her for trespassing.
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## flowmaster (Jan 22, 2004)

I forget where I heard it, some comedian I think, but he said "the downfall of America began with the outlawing of lawn darts."


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## Treebumper (Aug 18, 2012)

What was up with the guy that said that it took him a couple of years before he stopped leaving DNA on that trail? I would love to see a flat(Florida) trail that challenging. I'm guessing that the raised apparatus was a platform or bridge without any rails.


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## Steve NMI (Jul 10, 2012)

I always figured it was assumed risk. Kinda like downhill skiing where I stand at the top of a big hill with two slippery boards attached to my feet. I would bet the offered settlement is what the countys attorney told them it would cost them to defend themselves. Or the countys insuranse company. Friggin lawyers are making all the rules now. How much money do you think is going the legal costs?


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

flowmaster said:


> I forget where I heard it, some comedian I think, but he said "the downfall of America began with the outlawing of lawn darts."


I had lawn darts when growing up and I can still see out of both eyes!  My parents may still have them stored in their basement... 

I fell off of a "raised apparatus" once. Silly me thought it was my own fault because I turned on to it a little too fast after riding through some wet leaves (back wheel slid off the edge and down I went). Body was a little sore, ego was bruised, so I took the turn slower on the next lap. Maybe I could have sued for cash to buy new bike parts?


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Even people who are skilled make mistakes and get hurt. This is a risky activity and that is partially why it is fun. Suing for getting hurt is silly unless the county did something crazy and unpredictable. If they had dug a pit next the "raised apparatus" and filled it full of punji sticks then covered it with leaves she might have a case... I would be a little pissed if someone did that  But gravity is hardly unexpected.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

_Alberto_ said:


> Why would the state offer tax payer money to someone who clearly broke The rules?
> 
> This b!tch deserves to be Christopher Reeved for life.


While I agree she is wrong for suing, I do think saying she deserves to be paralyzed is a little harsh. She deserves to be prosecuted for not following the rules, and then sent to a women's MTB skills camp on her own dime as punishment. This incident should not cost any public entity a dime.


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## Gordon Shumway (Sep 17, 2012)

Ha..lawsuits for people's own actions. Some dude sued a local mtn here in SoCal (Snow Summit) for a ridiculous amount of cash a few years back because he was injured in a downhill race. The suit got thrown out right away but it was part of the reason the mtn owner threw in the towel on allowing riders on the actual in bounds trails. They used to have all kinds of races and DH trails. Now you take the lifts up and ride forest roads/trails out of bounds only. Frivolous lawsuits are for pussies.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

I once stumped my toe on the sofa. I was in so much pain I called up my lawyer to sue the as s wipe who bought the sofa and placed it where it was. Then I realized that was me. Everyone looked at me weird when I showed up in court to sue myself.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm encouraged by the outrage to this story. Obviously nearly everyone has a better sense of responsibility and morality than the litigant. But sure, it doesn't take many of them to ruin a good situation.

Unaccountable, unskilled, ego-bruised, blame-shirking milktoast hag...get the F back in your living room where it's nice and safe.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

This is exactly why all these "coddle me" laws have to be enforced. Laws about helmets, seat belts, lawn darts, etc, etc. Everyone wants freedom to be an individual but hit them with the consequences ($80k medical bill) and how quickly they look around for help.

Here's my idea...put the Internet to good use. If you want true democracy, allow every American to cast a vote.


- Rob


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## CraigCreekRider (Apr 12, 2007)

the-one1 said:


> I once stumped my toe on the sofa. I was in so much pain I called up my lawyer to sue the as s wipe who bought the sofa and placed it where it was. Then I realized that was me. Everyone looked at me weird when I showed up in court to sue myself.


Haha good1

Sorry the lady got hurt, but she shouldn't get a dime. She should sue herself since well, we all screw up and need somebody to blame. If they pay her then its like giving money to the panhandler, encouraging bad behavior and it will ensure more of the same......


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## ghglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

That is why I am having to jump through so many legal hoops to get access to trail build on land within my town. Up here in Alberta, the government made a law that makes anyone and everyone a "trespasser" on all land even with permission, thus removing any liability but for that of the user. Even with that on the books, I am still working with the Town's lawyers, trying to finalize the red tape!!!


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## ghglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

On a side note, I think the $81,000 in medical bills are the primary factor in this lawsuit. That is the root of your problem. There is a cause to the "frivolous" lawsuits.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

Funny, I didn't even think of suing Manitou because they spec'd a too-soft spring in my Nixon, which I took a long time to upgrade, and as a result i broke my c-bone in 5 places. Hmmmm........

Anyone have a 'gif' of the blanket party scene from Full Metal Jacket? It needs to be sent to this idiot b*tch.

It's not like the old Illinois case, where a rider went OTB because the county had removed asphalt 'fill' from between the cracks on a bridge, and one of the gaps caught his skinny tire; that was negligence on the part of the county (covered bridge, no 'construction' signing), but caused issues in that state that still resonate today.

It IS like the one in Oklahoma a few years back, where an older, inexperienced rider suffered a spinal injury on a trail because trail work had eroded after storm season. That got their trail CLOSED.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Hmmm. Can I sue the county/state if I crash my car into a tree? I mean, they DID put that curve there... It's not my fault if I was speeding and intoxicated on wet roads. Maybe they would close the roads to cars then..


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## mfisher1971 (Dec 7, 2005)

so, using this logic, if I were to wreck my car while speeding the wrong way down a one way street and injure myself, the state should cover it, right?


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

That's my go to park for weekday evening rides. I love that park, not really technical at all but fast and very good for a cardio workout. It states clearly at the trail head that all users must watch a trail safety video and sign a waiver, she did neither, therefore, she shouldn't be entitled to even have medical bills covered. She was out there illegally, blame should fall completely on her.

Ps,

I guess I'm the idiot though as awhile ago I was riding there and went down very hard, separating my AC joint and breaking a few ribs, and the thought of a law suit never even crossed my mind. And all this time I could have profited from my own stupidity.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

I guess I can sue Niner then. Took one out for a demo and was Immediately impressed by the roll. Decided to test the limit of the wheel's superior approach angle and crashed rolling off a boulder, bruising my left quad so bad I was out of commission for a month. 

Niner's marketing made me over confident as to the advantages of the wheel size, so of course it was their fault, not mine. 

Right? 

Who was this lady's lawyer? I want him/her!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

Kiwiplague said:


> It sounded better in my head lol.


It probably did.


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## Dgage (Aug 20, 2006)

RTM said:


> Here's my idea...put the Internet to good use. If you want true democracy, allow every American to cast a vote.
> 
> - Rob


They don't now??


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## Dgage (Aug 20, 2006)

I think by "raised apparatus" he meant a stunt of some kind. Like a teeter totter, a raised log ect ect.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

Dgage said:


> I think by "raised apparatus" he meant a stunt of some kind. Like a teeter totter, a raised log ect ect.


That's kind of what I was thinking. Absolutely terrible what happened but absolutely asinine how she handled it. What frustrates me the most is that this happens much more than we will ever hear about. It also seems as if there is not much that can be done about it.


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## FujNoob (Dec 20, 2009)

Our local county government will sometimes settle with even the most ridiculous lawsuit to avoid taking the chance on going to trial and having a jury award some big money. They may be paying out less in the settlement than it would cost them in legal fees to fight the case. Not saying it’s the right thing to do but it may be their cheapest option. I personally can’t stand stupid people expecting the rest of us to pay for their mistakes.


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

She&I said:


> I'm encouraged by the outrage to this story. Obviously nearly everyone has a better sense of responsibility and morality than the litigant. But sure, it doesn't take many of them to ruin a good situation.
> 
> Unaccountable, unskilled, ego-bruised, blame-shirking milktoast hag...get the F back in your living room where it's nice and safe.


^^^this^^^ The reaction to this from members has restored my faith in humanity.


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

ghettocop said:


> ^^^this^^^ The reaction to this from members has restored my faith in humanity.


In my opinion, there are still a lot of good people out there who still believe in doing the right thing. And, just my opinion, good honest people are the majority where the a*sholes are the minority. We just tend to notice the a*sholes more because, well, they're as*holes. I still have faith in humanity :thumbsup:


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## brianW. (Nov 15, 2010)

ghglenn said:


> On a side note, I think the $81,000 in medical bills are the primary factor in this lawsuit. That is the root of your problem. There is a cause to the "frivolous" lawsuits.


 and why is the bill $81,000? Could it be the high cost of malpractice insurance doctors/hospitals have to pay? for frivolous lawsuits......


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Since when do people have to watch videos and sign liability waivers before riding trails? Is there a kiosk or something at the trailhead? Anybody from Florida know what those trails are like where the accident happened? I think I'll stick with my steep, rocky and root strewn trails with dangerous exposure thank you very much. I've been tossed off the trail and hit my head several times and it never occurred to me that I should have contacted legal counsel (I paid a visit to a hospital after one of said accidents).

It was her own decision to get on that raised apparatus (whatever that is) and give it a go. When I see something I can't ride then I get the heck of my bike and walk over it and if I don't then I accept the inevitable consequences. She shouldn't get one red cent for her error in judgement.


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

nwbikur said:


> Since when do people have to watch videos and sign liability waivers before riding trails? Is there a kiosk or something at the trailhead? Anybody from Florida know what those trails are like where the accident happened?


In Broward County FL, you legally have to watch a safety video and sign a waiver and then when you complete the process they give you a nifty little card that is essentially like a DL. The crazy thing is, is that if you are riding the trails in Broward County and a park rep asks to see it, and you don't have it on you, they can make you leave and charge you with trespassing. I'm not quite sure how it works anywhere else, but in S.FL all the mtb trails are inside city/county parks. Hope this answers your question. :thumbsup:

**Edit**
Here's a copy of the waiver if you want to take a look. http://www.broward.org/Parks/ThingsToDo/Documents/4708bikewaiver.pdf


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

crazy03 said:


> In Broward County FL, you legally have to watch a safety video and sign a waiver and then when you complete the process they give you a nifty little card that is essentially like a DL. The crazy thing is, is that if you are riding the trails in Broward County and a park rep asks to see it, and you don't have it on you, they can make you leave and charge you with trespassing. I'm not quite sure how it works anywhere else, but in S.FL all the mtb trails are inside city/county parks. Hope this answers your question. :thumbsup:


Well son of a gun, I did not know that. If I lived in Broward County I suppose I would have to man up and get my credentials in order. Thanks for the intel.


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

nwbikur said:


> Well son of a gun, I did not know that. If I lived in Broward County I suppose I would have to man up and get my credentials in order. Thanks for the intel.


No problem. If you go back and look at the post I posted, I edited it and added a link to the actual waiver.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

crazy03 said:


> No problem. If you go back and look at the post I posted, I edited it and added a link to the actual waiver.


Thanks, I just took a look at the waiver. In one sense funny but it's too bad that it's come to this. However if that's what it takes to get out on the trails then I would go through the hoops.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

one simple change to the law would fix crap settlements like this and would go a LONG way to fixing this country's entire legal system.

If you sue someone, and you lose, you should have to pay ALL of the legal fees. your own PLUS the defense's.

think about it. this might even fix the rising medical expenses due to medical malpractice insurance costs. Malpractice insurance primarily costs a lot of money just to pay the defense lawyers. Startlingly few malpractice cases are actually won. a lot are settled simply because the costs to defend them are so high regardless of whether the plaintiff has a solid case or not.


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

What we need are intelligent judges who will look at a case and throw it out if it's stupid. Unfortunately it's getting hard to find judges who have any intelligence or just plain common sense. Common sense, did I cause the injury to myself or did someone/thing else cause the injury to me. It's not that hard to figure out in most cases. 

Me falling off my bike is my fault. Someone knocking me off my bike their fault.

Seems the county was the victem in this case.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Maybe they should fine her $17,500 for trespassing?


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Dgage said:


> They don't now??


I meant on cases like these. Instead of a jury of peers you get a jury of 6m. Majority rule right?

- Rob


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

"...landed almost head-first." Almost? That doesn't sound vague at all.


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## 11 Bravo (Mar 12, 2004)

FujNoob said:


> Our local county government will sometimes settle with even the most ridiculous lawsuit to avoid taking the chance on going to trial and having a jury award some big money. They may be paying out less in the settlement than it would cost them in legal fees to fight the case. Not saying it's the right thing to do but it may be their cheapest option. I personally can't stand stupid people expecting the rest of us to pay for their mistakes.


But this is really the root cause of all theses BS lawsuits. Lots of lawsuits are filed simply because the "victim" knows they will get something because settling out of court COULD be cheaper than defending the case.

It may be cheaper on a case by case basis, but in the long run it costs everyone more because the endless stream of BS lawsuits never stops. Death by a thousand cuts.

It the county attorney didn't have the balls or the legal expertise to defend this case, fire the worthless POS and get someone who will.

Someone has to start standing up to this stuff or it will choke everything to death.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

+ 1 11B. You just nailed it.

This is why we have so many frivilous BS lawsuits in this country. That, and our law schools keep turning out so many ambulance chasing attorney's. They all have to make a buck. Most don't seem to care where or how.


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## ghglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

Most likely, the insurance company is the one doing the lawsuit, with the insured as the complaintant. This is common practice. The fact that you think it is the individual doing this is laughable. As a former Motocross Track owner, I have been sued many times, not by the actual person (many times friends) but by the insurance company, using the user/injured as the complaintant. The insurance companies are the ones to blame, combined with $ hungry lawyers, and a for profit medical system. Usually, the individual gets little in actual dollars. Might want to look into these things before spatting off about incidents like this, hopefully "you" will never have to see the truth.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

jollybeggar said:


> What we need are intelligent judges who will look at a case and throw it out if it's stupid. Unfortunately it's getting hard to find judges who have any intelligence or just plain common sense. Common sense, did I cause the injury to myself or did someone/thing else cause the injury to me. It's not that hard to figure out in most cases.


I think this has a lot to do with it.


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## 11 Bravo (Mar 12, 2004)

ghglenn said:


> Most likely, the insurance company is the one doing the lawsuit, with the insured as the complaintant. This is common practice. The fact that you think it is the individual doing this is laughable. As a former Motocross Track owner, I have been sued many times, not by the actual person (many times friends) but by the insurance company, using the user/injured as the complaintant. The insurance companies are the ones to blame, combined with $ hungry lawyers, and a for profit medical system. Usually, the individual gets little in actual dollars. Might want to look into these things before spatting off about incidents like this, hopefully "you" will never have to see the truth.


ghglenn, I don't know if that was directed at my post or not, but sadly enough I am familiar with the lawsuits you speak of. I had a very good friend who was sued by an insurance company after his brother wrecked a 4 wheeler and ended up in the hospital while riding on a piece of property that my friend owned.

I didn't mean to imply that the individual person was filing the lawsuit. I do not know if that is the case here or not, and it really doesn't change the point I was making.

It really does not matter if the injured person filed the lawsuit on their own, had lawyer seek them out and suggest it, or if the medical insurance provider for the injured person filed it to try to recover some of their money.

The point is that in this case, the injured person was totally in the wrong and was even guilty of criminal acts in the process of injuring themselves. If the county attorney is not willing to defend this in court when the insurance company (or whoever) threatens to take them there, then the foolishness will continue. If the suing party lost some litigation costs and came up empty handed a few times they may think twice before filing these suits.

All of this stuff is just stupid and if it doesn't get damped down somehow none of us will be able to do anything.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

Adim_X said:


> While I agree she is wrong for suing, I do think saying she deserves to be paralyzed is a little harsh. She deserves to be prosecuted for not following the rules, and then sent to a women's MTB skills camp on her own dime as punishment. This incident should not cost any public entity a dime.


If she is crippled now wtf is the point in further prosecuting, does the arm of the law and an official ticket somehow make things worse than being paralyzed? major logic reality fail in your world.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> one simple change to the law would fix crap settlements like this and would go a LONG way to fixing this country's entire legal system.
> 
> If you sue someone, and you lose, you should have to pay ALL of the legal fees. your own PLUS the defense's.
> 
> think about it. this might even fix the rising medical expenses due to medical malpractice insurance costs. Malpractice insurance primarily costs a lot of money just to pay the defense lawyers. Startlingly few malpractice cases are actually won. a lot are settled simply because the costs to defend them are so high regardless of whether the plaintiff has a solid case or not.


Really you mean one of the most negligent professions in America killing roughly 100k people annually should be Immune from the little guy? Preventable Medical Errors


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## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

Arch Itech said:


> Another case of someone [email protected]#%ing the system.
> 
> Injured mountain biker may be paid by county - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


The Mean Streets of Mountain Biking in Florida. If the coral snakes don't get you the raised apparatus will. I bet her elevation at the top of that apparatus was about 3' above sea level. Maybe she got dizzy from the altitude.


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

xcguy said:


> The Mean Streets of Mountain Biking in Florida. If the coral snakes don't get you the raised apparatus will. I bet her elevation at the top of that apparatus was about 3' above sea level. Maybe she got dizzy from the altitude.


Hey now, don't hate on FL. It's not our fault it's flat here. 

Ps, It's not only the Coral snakes and raised apparatus' you have to worry about down here, you also need to worry about alligators, zombies and the retirees that should have had their licenses revoked long ago.


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> one simple change to the law would fix crap settlements like this and would go a LONG way to fixing this country's entire legal system.
> 
> If you sue someone, and you lose, you should have to pay ALL of the legal fees. your own PLUS the defense's.
> 
> think about it. this might even fix the rising medical expenses due to medical malpractice insurance costs. Malpractice insurance primarily costs a lot of money just to pay the defense lawyers. Startlingly few malpractice cases are actually won. a lot are settled simply because the costs to defend them are so high regardless of whether the plaintiff has a solid case or not.


Actually here in Canada there is a law like that. If you loose the suit you can (not necessarily) be liable for both parties court and lawyer fees.


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## jhbryaniv (Apr 22, 2008)

Hey all, long time lurker, first post.

Found this while doing some research on this topic: and since I cannot post a link . . . I found the minutes from the Broward county commissioners meeting on 11 Sep 12. within them there is a memorandum and some additional details not in the newspaper. . . I can send the link to someone else to post . . . 

Appears the reason they are even considering giving her anything is the signage was "intermediate" and has since been changed to "expert pro". 

I personally don't think she should get a dime. But then again I now live in SFL where you can get shot while breaking into a house and win a lawsuit against the homeowner...


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## jhbryaniv (Apr 22, 2008)

Guess I could just copy and post from the site also:


> AI- 12076 8.
> Broward County Commission Regular Meeting
> Meeting Date: 09/11/2012
> Director's Name: Sue Baldwin
> ...


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Arch Itech said:


> Another case of someone [email protected]#%ing the system.
> 
> Injured mountain biker may be paid by county - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


You have to sign a waiver and see a video to go on some county trails....

Geez that is really ****ed up


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## NFLcheesehead1 (Sep 15, 2012)

That's barbaric...


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I doubt we'd pay this person off even in California ... and we have real trails with real dangers.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

deanna said:


> I had lawn darts when growing up and I can still see out of both eyes!  My parents may still have them stored in their basement...


I bet you could make some good $$ off those!  
I saw the "safe" version the other day at gander mtn, had to laugh. I bet my folks still have theirs too, I must look next time!


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Can anyone provide pics or video link of this "raised apparatus" ?
Thanks


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> I doubt we'd pay this person off even in California ... and we have real trails with real dangers.


pretty sure you're right.

Written into some code or another it basically says if you are doing something dangerous (and Mountain Biking is included along with hiking, skating, surfing, etc..) it's your fault for clobbering yourself.

You can sue the state/county/city- but you will not win.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

pretty soon hikers will be able to sue the city if they trip and fall on a local TRAIL that is not properly manicured.:skep:

some people and their lawyers need to give it a rest.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Maybe they just need large warning signs at the trailhead? In the Sierra, most trailheads have signs with boilerplate basically saying that wilderness travel is inherently dangerous and you're on our won out there.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> pretty soon hikers will be able to sue the city if they trip and fall on a local TRAIL that is not properly manicured.:skep:
> 
> some people and their lawyers need to give it a rest.


I believe most places have it in their code/law that they are not responsible for stuff like that...

Ya gotta remember - you can sue anyone for any reason at anytime. It does not mean you are going to win.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

*Ghglenn was right - this is probably the insurance co.*

I fell and broke my thumb requiring surgery and rehab. My insurance company "interviewed" me about the incident and wanted very specific information about my bike as well as the trail. I believe they were looking for another party to "share" the expense with.

I believe your insurance companies (auto, home, and health) all reserve the right in the fine print to seek damages wherever they deem appropriate - all in the policy holder's name. I don't think the policy holder can decline the suit unless they're willing to pay out-of-pocket.

Luckily nothing ever came of my mishap.

I blame the legal system and insurance companies for situations like this. It's a downward spiral. Who here remembers McDonald's coffee cups before they had warnings on them?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Found it....

McDonald's Coffee Lawsuit here.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

connolm said:


> I fell and broke my thumb requiring surgery and rehab. My insurance company "interviewed" me about the incident and wanted very specific information about my bike as well as the trail. I believe they were looking for another party to "share" the expense with.
> 
> I believe your insurance companies (auto, home, and health) all reserve the right in the fine print to seek damages wherever they deem appropriate - all in the policy holder's name. I don't think the policy holder can decline the suit unless they're willing to pay out-of-pocket.
> 
> ...


Insurance companies mainly like taking your money and would prefer not to pay any out. Let's have them write all there own laws, that'll help.


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## FLMike (Sep 28, 2008)

bamwa1 said:


> Can anyone provide pics or video link of this "raised apparatus" ?
> Thanks


no idea which one it could be, but here is a video of the park


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I bet it was the totter. I'm thinking she rode up on it, got a little vertigo going, freaked out and fell off. Everything on the video falls well within the "mountain biking is an inherently dangerous activity. Proceed at your own risk." category. Nothing is out of the ordinary or particularly dangerous.

Kudos to the trailbuilders for putting in some nice features to spice things up a bit. That's actually a nice looking little trail you have down there. Don't let litigious pu$$ies keep you down. Build more I say.

Stupid lawsuits like this and declining access to trails are two of the biggest threats to the future of mountain biking IMO.


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## Mazda Guy (Jul 12, 2012)

It all comes back to the dollar. People wanting it. Our system allows ways for it to happen criminally, legally.

Maybe I'm a little more worried about my own personal safety than most. I like to push my limits, and expand on my skills, but I know that's going to come with some spills. I like my protective gear that I wear, and am thinking about adding more to it. But I like knowing when I take one of those spills from pushing it, that I'm going to be right back up and on the bike.

Yeah, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but for me, it's one of those things that's just going to happen. Everyone should know, and recognize it. Don't get me wrong, it's unfortunate when something happens. Regardless though, our society is extremely warped, all over the dollar. Oh, how wonderful it is. It may be a necessity, but it can bring out a lot of things you don't want.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

CHUM said:


> I believe most places have it in their code/law that they are not responsible for stuff like that...
> 
> Ya gotta remember - you can sue anyone for any reason at anytime. It does not mean you are going to win.


Oh...ok...well thanks.


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## flowmaster (Jan 22, 2004)

Big Bear shut down to downhill bikes after paying out to a racer who broke his back in a bad crash in spite of the signed waivers and inherent dangers that come with racing.


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

While I agree that there are some really silly lawsuits, and this is probably one of them, suing in civil court is the last defense of the individual against some pretty powerful entities. For those who think the loser should pay the court costs - what if a large corporation caused the death of a family member of yours through gross negligence and they had much better lawyers than you can afford?

While I don't agree with all the points in this documentary, I recommend watching it to get a different viewpoint on the issue: 
HOT COFFEE, a documentary feature film


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

This isn't the first time that Broward county has had to deal with mtb lawsuits. There have been several against Quiet Water Park and Markham Park. The county has done a great job in providing great riding ares (markham) while also trying to minimize their liability. 

As broward county "licensed" rider #4248 I'm pretty bummed about the lawsuit. As someone who understands that health care is expensive and mistakes can happen, I'm still pretty bummed that this person is suing the county.


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

ghglenn said:


> Most likely, the insurance company is the one doing the lawsuit, with the insured as the complaintant. This is common practice. The fact that you think it is the individual doing this is laughable. As a former Motocross Track owner, I have been sued many times, not by the actual person (many times friends) but by the insurance company, using the user/injured as the complaintant. The insurance companies are the ones to blame, combined with $ hungry lawyers, and a for profit medical system. Usually, the individual gets little in actual dollars. Might want to look into these things before spatting off about incidents like this, hopefully "you" will never have to see the truth.


Very good point. The lesson here is to avoid any accident information surveys from the insurance company. In cases where i've had to go to the hospital for injuries, there's always a "survey" sent to me a few weeks later asking how i was injured, and more importantly WHERE.

Insurance companies are there to make money and if they can re-coupe the cost of a claim by going after another party, they're going to do it.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

FloridaFish said:


> This isn't the first time that Broward county has had to deal with mtb lawsuits. There have been several against Quiet Water Park and Markham Park. The county has done a great job in providing great riding ares (markham) while also trying to minimize their liability.
> 
> As broward county "licensed" rider #4248 I'm pretty bummed about the lawsuit. As someone who understands that health care is expensive and mistakes can happen, I'm still pretty bummed that this person is suing the county.


I can't believe you even have a license number! People make fun of California because of regulations and we don't even come close to that. What a joke.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

here you can build wooden features but for park insurance purposes they can't "articulate" which means move so no totters or stuff


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

SS Hack said:


> I can't believe you even have a license number! People make fun of California because of regulations and we don't even come close to that. What a joke.


No kidding. Is the license used only for bike parks created for bikers? Sounds crazy:eekster:


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

mykel said:


> She rode on something she shouldn't have while riding illegally
> *Im sorry for her pain and suffering*, however it is self-induced.
> They should offer her nothing.
> They should cite her for trespassing.
> ...


Why be sorrry for someones stupidity? Stupid SHOULD hurt, we remember the lesson better that way. I remember quite well every lesson that cost me money or hurt, the rest...well not so much.


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## Gordon Shumway (Sep 17, 2012)

flowmaster said:


> Big Bear shut down to downhill bikes after paying out to a racer who broke his back in a bad crash in spite of the signed waivers and inherent dangers that come with racing.


Half true. The d-bag did break his back and suffered a permanent injury BUT his ridiculous lawsuit was dropped and he didn't get a dime. What it did do though was ruin fun for everyone else because now Snow Summit doesn't allow riding on their actual land. The runs are all out of bounds forest trails now.

Bittersweet victory for Snow Summit and Team Big Bear - Big Bear Grizzly: Big Bear Valley News


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> I can't believe you even have a license number! People make fun of California because of regulations and we don't even come close to that. What a joke.


It's a county park, if you want to ride, you watch the video and get a number. I have no problem with the county trying to limit it's liability by "teaching" and getting users to sign a waiver.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

FloridaFish said:


> It's a county park, if you want to ride, you watch the video and get a number. I have no problem with the county trying to limit it's liability by "teaching" and getting users to sign a waiver.


I guess if you're wiling to submit to the regs, more power to you. I wonder if there track you with that "number"?


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## FLMike (Sep 28, 2008)

SS Hack said:


> I guess if you're wiling to submit to the regs, more power to you. I wonder if there track you with that "number"?


Ive been riding the parks since the 6 years theyve been doing the system and havent been asked once to see my card. In fact, just yesterday I was at one of the parks and overheard a few cyclists talking about this very lawsuit and how she never signed the waiver/watched the video and how she was trespassing.. they then all ask each other and all comment how they havent either. Then proceed to ride onto the trails.

Ive never come across anyone checking.

If it makes you feel better I can come up with some government tracking theory involving drones...


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

FLMike said:


> Ive been riding the parks since the 6 years theyve been doing the system and havent been asked once to see my card.
> 
> Ive never come across anyone checking.


Nope, I've never been asked to see my licence either. I ride there and Markham 3-4 nights a week and usually one day on the weekend and have never been asked to see it by anyone. I fully support the idea, though. :thumbsup:


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

It's a shame that a lawsuit ensued...
Looks like a cool park though! I'd have no problem going through the proper channels to ride there.

Hey FL Mike... I suggest you track this woman down and show her your video. She'll be able to see how REAL women do it!

PS: I tried to look up the page on your home-made mount for the Contour but wasn't having any luck... I tried the link in your video but it said the page was unavailable.
Any link to it here?


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## FLMike (Sep 28, 2008)

Eckstream1 said:


> It's a shame that a lawsuit ensued...
> Looks like a cool park though! I'd have no problem going through the proper channels to ride there.
> 
> Hey FL Mike... I suggest you track this woman down and show her your video. She'll be able to see how REAL women do it!
> ...


Not my video, just a random one I found on youtube


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

FLMike said:


> Not my video, just a random one I found on youtube


Oh... Haha.
Nevermind... 
:blush:


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

Blurr said:


> If she is crippled now wtf is the point in further prosecuting, does the arm of the law and an official ticket somehow make things worse than being paralyzed? major logic reality fail in your world.


Because further prosecution convicts her of a crime and protects the resort is a civil suit. By your logic if someone gets hurt driving drunk they shouldn't get a DUI.

IMO,(and our criminal legal system) being stupid and getting hurt in the process does not absolve one of criminal consequences. Ones physical condition post crime does not lesson ones guilt. I'm sure no DA would have the guts to press the case but I sure as hell wouldn't hold it against then if they chose to do so. As I mentioned elsewhere...stupid should hurt. This person didn't care about anyone but herself when she tresspassed. Why should anyone else care about her now? Sounds harsh but Karma is one hell of a cruel mistress.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

connolm said:


> I fell and broke my thumb requiring surgery and rehab. My insurance company "interviewed" me about the incident and wanted very specific information about my bike as well as the trail. I believe they were looking for another party to "share" the expense with.
> 
> I believe your insurance companies (auto, home, and health) all reserve the right in the fine print to seek damages wherever they deem appropriate - all in the policy holder's name. I don't think the policy holder can decline the suit unless they're willing to pay out-of-pocket.
> 
> ...


It does seem likely that an insurance company seeking to recoup medical costs was behind this lawsuit. The insurers are often the first to complain about our "out of control" legal system, but are often the most litigious.

It is a terrible shame when lawsuits or threats of lawsuits cause trail owners to close their trails. The same phenomenon makes drugs and various other types of products more expensive (or unavailable). Usually, however, there is another side to a story like this (e.g., what if the park staff failed to follow their own safety rules and/or knew that a ramp was broken / trail was unsafe for "intermediate" riders and did not close it or put up a sign -- we don't know the details here). There likely was something more than meets the eye here for the case to get past the opening round -- where it should have been thrown out if the crash was simply a result of the inherent dangers of mountain biking, which are risks that the rider assumed.

When you ride a trail, you assume the risk of crashing and getting hurt for any number of reasons, but you don't forfeit the right to protection from unreasonably dangerous conditions caused by others (e.g., if you round a blind corner at speed and crash into a fallen tree, that's a risk you assumed; but it may be a different story if park staff cut down the tree and left it there without a warning sign or trail closure). Even the McDonald's coffee case had another side, and the company's approach to defending that case (in which the plaintiff was very badly burned in the worst possible place to be burned) caused an impartial jury to get mad and make them pay.

Given that our legal system intentionally promotes lawsuits such as this in several ways (guarantees right to jury trial; makes it very difficult to throw cases out when there are factual disputes; imposes duties to warn of particular dangerous conditions upon property owners; and refuses to follow the "English Rule" that the loser pays the legal costs of the winner), this won't change unless the system does. I think we would hear far fewer of these stories if the rules were changed to impose greater risk of paying the other side's legal fees upon those who file and lose a lawsuit.

On a related note, Strava has filed a cross-complaint against the Estate of William Flint (roadie who died while seeking to reclaim his KOM status and crashed into a car while speeding (over 50mph) on a steep descent -- his parents are suing Strava for wrongful death) seeking to recover its legal costs of defending the case. See CGC-12-521659


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## Doug_J (Oct 5, 2009)

I had a pretty good fall a couple of weeks ago that required some stitching on my forearm to make me right. I drove down the mountain had it done at the urgent care center, all went well and no complaints.

Last night I got a letter from my insurance (Tricare) and a Dept. of the Army form to fill out and return. It has to be done before Tricare will reimburse for the care I recieved, and it referances a code from the visit that indicates and accidental injury. The intent of the process is to identify an additional responsible party if available. 

It's irritating. I fell, I hurt myself, I got some stitches, end of story. I suppose I understand why they are asking, but witholding payment for services rendered until I respond is not cool. The letter stated that if I did not respond within something like 30 days the claim would be rejected.


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## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

Doug_J said:


> I had a pretty good fall a couple of weeks ago that required some stitching on my forearm to make me right. I drove down the mountain had it done at the urgent care center, all went well and no complaints.
> 
> Last night I got a letter from my insurance (Tricare) and a Dept. of the Army form to fill out and return. It has to be done before Tricare will reimburse for the care I recieved, and it referances a code from the visit that indicates and accidental injury. The intent of the process is to identify an additional responsible party if available.
> 
> It's irritating. I fell, I hurt myself, I got some stitches, end of story. I suppose I understand why they are asking, but witholding payment for services rendered until I respond is not cool. The letter stated that if I did not respond within something like 30 days the claim would be rejected.


Send them a letter back... State that you will withold payment if they dont provide the service you pay for! LOLOL

I just love insurance companies! Quick to take your money, slow to pay it out when you hurt yourself! :madman::madmax::madman:


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

FloridaFish said:


> It's a county park, if you want to ride, you watch the video and get a number. I have no problem with the county trying to limit it's liability by "teaching" and getting users to sign a waiver.


You are being conditioned to be subservient. You see how easily you accept the premise that living in the thrall of the legal-bureaucratic complex is normal?


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## crazy03 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> You are being conditioned to be subservient. You see how easily you accept the premise that living in the thrall of the legal-bureaucratic complex is normal?


I know this was not directed to me but since I ride that park and since I did sign the liability waiver and watch the safety video, I feel compelled to respond.

How can you call someone subservient for signing a liability waiver and watching a safety video? I don't see what one has to do to the other.

1, In Broward County it's mandatory in order to ride the trails.

2, The video is actually pretty educational, it breaks down the skill level of the trails, it goes over proper trail etiquette and it goes over the safety gear required.

3, South FL has a ridiculous amount of bullsh*t lawsuits, hence the waiver of liability. It's really not fair to begrudge someone for trying to cover their a*s.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Doug_J said:


> I had a pretty good fall a couple of weeks ago that required some stitching on my forearm to make me right. I drove down the mountain had it done at the urgent care center, all went well and no complaints.
> 
> Last night I got a letter from my insurance (Tricare) and a Dept. of the Army form to fill out and return. It has to be done before Tricare will reimburse for the care I recieved, and it referances a code from the visit that indicates and accidental injury. The intent of the process is to identify an additional responsible party if available.
> 
> It's irritating. I fell, I hurt myself, I got some stitches, end of story. I suppose I understand why they are asking, but witholding payment for services rendered until I respond is not cool. The letter stated that if I did not respond within something like 30 days the claim would be rejected.


My wife had an MRI of her hip due to pain. Our insurance is calling asking for the same info, what event caused it and where.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Ha, so true. I get the same thing every time. "Was this an accident?" "No" "are you sure?" "Yes". "Are you really sure?"


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## Trek3900 (Oct 3, 2012)

But they said she was a trespasser, she shouldn't get ****..


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

ghglenn said:


> On a side note, I think the $81,000 in medical bills are the primary factor in this lawsuit. That is the root of your problem. There is a cause to the "frivolous" lawsuits.


True.

Hand, meet glove.

When basic help for an injury costs more than a starter home, what can you expect but panic from the injured?

In no way saying she should get anything, I agree 100% with all the outrage here.

But to say it's just lawyers faults is missing the bigger picture.

Remember 30 years ago, when CEO's of major corporations made a few 100K, lived in a decent neighborhood, drove a Cadillac, and played golf at the local country club?

Fast forward to millions in compensation, 14 "homes" in gated communities or on private islands, a fleet of Caddies, and a Lear Jet to ferry the kids to boarding school in New Hampshire?

Recipe for everyone else who could do so, to say, hey, let's raise our prices too.

Right then, the rest of us? Got fu#ked.


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## ja001son (Feb 27, 2011)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> True.
> 
> Hand, meet glove.
> 
> ...


Sits back... stares... thinks... the stick just isnt long enough for this one...


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> True.
> 
> Hand, meet glove.
> 
> ...


The CEO of Costco still lives the old school way; the company's highest markup is 14 percent too and the they don't pass out food stamp applications to new hires.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

The problem here being, she didn't injure herself just quite seriously enough. Our gene pool is degrading.


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## slowmotion (Mar 29, 2007)

there is the flip side to this -- here in mexico you can cross over freeway over-passes with no railing. If by any chance someone drifts into your lane while you are crossing the over pass your options and chances for survival quickly diminish. That is one of many examples. In the US that would never happen -- a billion lawyers would be all over it. 

As with everything in life -- its all about the balance. For sure the US is over board. Its sad, very sad.


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