# Specialized Hardrock Hardtail; how to get it ready for DH??



## yellowpasta2000 (Nov 22, 2008)

I want to DH but all i have is a hardtail hardrock with a rst 100mm travel fork.(not disk brake) what can i do or change or look forward to upgrade that wont put a hole in my pocket cuz im on a tight budjet.

-also what would b the most travel fork i can put on this bike? i want a lot more travel!

Thanks
Anto


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## yellowpasta2000 (Nov 22, 2008)

would this work with my bike?? Rock Shox Domain 302

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rock-Shox-Domai...ryZ36135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

The bike was probably not designed to take more than 120mm, going bigger puts more stress on the head tube and you risk breaking it, and I imagine due to the geometry the handling would feel pretty strange too.

To give you an idea even the Giant STP which is a dirt juper and can dabble in a bit of DH can't take more than 140mm/150mm without risk of frame cracking.

You should look into the Norco Shore range - Like the Sasquatch, Rampage etc, these are a good example of frames designed for 160mm travel and suitable for DH riding, if you can score one 2nd hand as a whole bike it will ultimately save you upgrading your hardrock.

But in saying that even wally world bikes have been taken to nomans land and back ( we all start somewhere).

I had a hardrock back in '01 (well up until '05). They are good bikes and can be versatile, but I don't think I'd be putting that much travel on it. I'll leave it for others more experienced to back me up or give you some better feedback.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

my friend did that exact thing, he hasn't snapped the head tube to it aint that bad, he has marz junior t pro up front with 170mm travel, every thing is fine


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> my friend did that exact thing, he hasn't snapped the head tube to it aint that bad, he has marz junior t pro up front with 170mm travel, every thing is fine


You boggle my mind sometimes. Truly astonishing.

Heres how to get a specialized hardrock ready for downhill: get one of those bear suits that can withstand getting hit by trucks, dropped down hills, etc - basically the best amour ever. Ride the sh1t out of it and you'll be ok when it breaks.

Otherwise, sell it and buy a different bike. Its not meant for it, and its not going to do well.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Anyone notice the frequency of questions like this and the type of questions from n00b's, including them asserting their little knowledge as FACT and then they get defensive when more experienced users here call them on it?


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

i hear ya jerk_chicken. if you ride a hardrock on dh with a longer fork than it can handle, you are just gonna end up with a huge dental bill. here's and idea, get a new bike that can handle dh.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

Wasn't this guy JUST deciding between a kumicho and an aniki? Like, 24 hours ago? I guess hw miscalculated his christmas gift budget.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

sell it and buy a new frame


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## Ouroboros (Jan 20, 2008)

I still have one. It's a beefy, solid frame and I'm not ditching it until I can get a good FS rig. Having said that, it will never be a DH bike. It's fine for AM riding though. I have my fork set at 130mm and it seems fine, no difference in the handling.


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## yellowpasta2000 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hesh to Steel said:


> Wasn't this guy JUST deciding between a kumicho and an aniki? Like, 24 hours ago? I guess hw miscalculated his christmas gift budget.


yupp that was me. im actually getting long travel suspension on my truck so cant afford a DH bike anymore so thought i can maby make my hardtail a lil better 4 DH trails...


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Hardrocks are actually great trail bikes, but they will never be a DH bike. I know a guy who started upgrading his, ended up with X.0 drivetrain, top of the line Truvativ cranks, E13 chainguide, Mavic Deemax wheels, Juicy Carbon brakes, 55 TST fork... The bike looked good but he was so scared to push it for fear of ripping the head tube off he never actually used the components. I bet he spent around $2k upgrading that bike and then just putted it around because he didn't want to buy a new frame.

You can get DH bikes for around a grand used if you hunt enough. Save up some money and keep an eye on craigslist and the pinkbike classifieds.

And bxxer still cracks me up with some of the scheisty crap he posts.


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## d.n.s (Jan 18, 2008)

this is my full upgraded hardrock 06



but i don't think this is able to run DH


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

William42 said:


> You boggle my mind sometimes. Truly astonishing.


well its fine for my friend as he only rides DH up to 5 times a year so he needed a cheap bike to use, because he races motocross so he doest have much time or money for DH.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Does he have money for teeth?


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## mtnbiker0755 (Oct 20, 2004)

You could "technically" ride a Hardrock with a 100mm RST fork on _some_ DH runs. It just will not be fun at all. Since the Hardrock is built as an entry level bike, it will not do well on a DH trail. A longer travel fork won't do much to help you: Yes, it will help the fatigue and stress on your arms/wrists/hands, but the rear end will still be bouncing around everywhere.

Quick question: Have you ever ridden your Hardrock with someone that has a DH/FR and switched bikes for a rock garden? I actually just did yesterday and we hit some gnarly rock gardens. Now, while I was able to clean them on my hardtail, when I jumped on his rig, I was quickly reminded of why a full squish bike is SOOOO much more fun!

If you absolutely can not get a full squish bike, and you want to make your bike more "DH worthy," the best advice I can give is get some Maxxis Minions!

Sorry for the long-winded response, but I hope this helps.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> well its fine for my friend as he only rides DH up to 5 times a year so he needed a cheap bike to use, because he races motocross so he doest have much time or money for DH.


I think we have very different definitions of Downhill...I think by downhill you mean p*ssy cross country. Cause I'm pretty sure 1-2 runs at speed down my local DH trails, or hittinga few hucks, and I could snap that bike in 2.


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## StinkyFTW (Jun 29, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> my friend did that exact thing, he hasn't snapped the head tube to it aint that bad, he has marz junior t pro up front with 170mm travel, every thing is fine


DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE JUST SAID:.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Gemini2k05 said:


> I think we have very different definitions of Downhill...I think by downhill you mean p*ssy cross country. Cause I'm pretty sure 1-2 runs at speed down my local DH trails, or hittinga few hucks, and I could snap that bike in 2.


this is my friend your on about, he does take things slowly, i don't.


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## dascro (Apr 1, 2007)

This quest gets more and more lame every time I read it.

If you aren't going to listen to what everyone says, why ask?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

yellowpasta2000 said:


> yupp that was me. im actually getting long travel suspension on my truck so cant afford a DH bike anymore so thought i can maby make my hardtail a lil better 4 DH trails...


In one episode of The Dukes of Hazzard, Cooter put four wheel drive in the General Lee.


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## Simia_4 (Jan 27, 2013)

I have a question on the subject. I in fact own a hardrock 29er and while i'm getting the general consensus that it would in no way be good for anything downhill; would any of you recommend a good starter bike on a moderate/tight budget? I've looked around Criagslist and Pinkbike, but having more seasoned advice would be nice. I'm about 5'7" 140lbs if that helps.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Simia_4 said:


> I have a question on the subject. I in fact own a hardrock 29er and while i'm getting the general consensus that it would in no way be good for anything downhill; would any of you recommend a good starter bike on a moderate/tight budget? I've looked around Criagslist and Pinkbike, but having more seasoned advice would be nice. I'm about 5'7" 140lbs if that helps.


yea it called search feature , try it


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## lernr (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't think you're gonna snap the HR frame. It's pretty burly. I've never seen or heard of a broken HR frame. 

At a minimum, you would need disc brakes for real DH. Also get chain guide and lose the triple + front der. I would also change the stem and the bars. What are the pedals? You would need some decent flats. Or clipless, if that's your thing.

Get lots of armour and a full-face helmet for sure and don't get too rad out there until you can get a DH bike


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## Simia_4 (Jan 27, 2013)

Well I'm pretty new to everything mtb, but i figured the HT HR wouldn't be anything worth a ride unless you were granny riding a paved road. 

I've got disc brakes and everything on the bike is stock. I did get some new pedals that "are" flat, but i don't know what "flats" are, clipless is a given. Triple + front der/stem and bars...again I'm new and trying to learn the logistics of my ride. 

My goal wasn't to do anything you big boys do on full sus bikes WITH this bike; i was just looking for some help/advice on what i could look for in terms of learning to play big. I guess using the search feature is equivalent to asking the folks at wal-mart, or so some suggest. Thanks though, lernr for the help, appreciate the help!


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## dirtdan (Jun 27, 2011)

You can do it, but you'll have to replace every component as well as the frame before you try.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

lernr said:


> I don't think you're gonna snap the HR frame. It's pretty burly. I've never seen or heard of a broken HR frame.
> 
> At a minimum, you would need disc brakes for real DH. Also get chain guide and lose the triple + front der. I would also change the stem and the bars. What are the pedals? You would need some decent flats. Or clipless, if that's your thing.
> 
> Get lots of armour and a full-face helmet for sure and don't get too rad out there until you can get a DH bike


A hardrock frame being burly ? are you okay ?Dunno what kind of "burly" bikes you ride.


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## lernr (Jul 13, 2012)

^^ I ride a Coilair DLX 2009, which I also consider burly, and a DHR 2005. (and a Ti Litespeed - this one isn't burly at all, I admit)

I've had a Hardrock, which I rode down the Hyak face at the Summit @ Snoqualmie. This is designated a black ski run in the winter, and I believe they had NORBA World Cup there at some point in the past. Sure - going down step-ish wasn't confidence-inspiring, and the thing rattled like there's no tomorrow. I wasn't fast but it was still exciting and fun for me.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I think the horse is still twitching. Here's my kick. 
It seems like deep down, you want to ride fast, have fun, and have a bike that others will think looks more or less like a dh bike. There's nothing wrong with those desires, but you are heading down a road that is FAR more expensive than you realize, and it will not make your bike nearly as good as you hope. 

Keep in mind I'm not trying to insult you in any way. You want to rip the steep stuff, and that's very respectable. Here's a list of problems you will quickly run into, and mind you, these are just some of the earliest problems you WILL face. 

You'll want a new set of handlebars that are wider for more control. Narrow bars make your steering feel more nervous, and that's a bad thing when going fast. You'll probably need a new, stronger stem that can handle the increase in leverage the wider bars will provide. +$70-120 for a decent set of wide bars, and +$50 for a strong stem.

You'll at least want to upgrade your skinny tires to big, fat, heavy Maxxis or Schwalbe DH tires that look super gnar core burly and DH. +$100 for the tires. 

Those sweet new fatty fat tires don't fit well on narrow rims. They roll from side to side if the rim isn't wide enough. That's easily +$150 more for a used ebay set of strong, wide wheels with some sickter loud sounding hubs.

Chains tend to hop off very easily in the rocks, so you should run a good chainguide and maybe a bash guard. You'll have to ditch the extra chainrings and possibly the front derailleur for those items to fit. That might affect your chainline, so you'd have to mess with all the alignment issues and shifting issues that result from it. You may also find that your crank messes with the guide, and you'll need a new crank and bottom bracket. +$200

You don't have things like ISCG tabs on your frame to run a chainguide. You'd have to white trash a guide on there, and it would most likely not work as well as you will need it to. Cost: ~$75 or more, and all sorts of bottom bracket to ISCG adapters that never seem to hold still.

If you get a decent fork that slackens out your frame, you will surely be putting too much leverage on it. Hardrocks have a very steep head angle, so you would need a lot more travel to slacken it out even a little bit. But even a full dual crown DH fork wouldn't steepen it up enough to give good performance on the steeper stuff. I would not put anything bigger than a 130ish fork on a Hardrock. Adding an inch or two of travel can make a MASSIVE difference in the leverage placed on the headtube, and if you put too much force... Imagine your fork and tire karate chopping you in the face and breaking your collarbone, then grinding yourself into the dirt. +$400 for a used fork on ebay if you're still convinced it's a good idea to look cool.

You'll undoubtedly want to stop or slow down after your runs. You will need to upgrade your brakes to discs with good calipers. Going down hills for extended periods of time, especially at speed, will destroy rim pincher brakes, and can heat up rims to the point that they will even pop your tubes. I've done it myself on pretty mellow dh trails. Good disc brakes are possibly one of the most important things you must have on a dh bike. Even a homemade sort-of-dh bike will need decent discs. +$200 or more

But you don't have the right frame or fork posts to fit disc brakes to your ride. You're stuck there, so your confidence at higher speeds will be gone since you won't be able to reliably stop like you need to. 

Now you'll need to make those sweet new meathook tires and loud-hubbed wheels fit the frame. But oh wait, the frame's rear triangle is just too narrow to fit them. Can't fix that one. 

New frame.


All totaled, you can easily spend upwards of $1200 trying to get your bike to the point of being just 'mediocre' on downhill trails. And that money will all be wasted, since for that price, you can get a good used DH or AM bike that will be far more DH-ready than a Hardrock will ever be. A HArdrock just won't ever be a decent dh bike, and that's the hard truth. I had to face the same thing a few years ago. Not wasting my money on a low end bike was the best decision I have ever made in terms of bikes. 


You may stick a fork in this thread. It's done.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

charging_rhinos said:


> Not wasting my money on a low end bike was the best decision I have ever made in terms of bikes.


There's definitely a time and place for low end bikes but normally it's far away from a DH trail.

At the least, I'd start looking for a new frame to move the parts on to. Santa Cruz Chameleons are a dime a dozen these days and can handle 140-150mm of travel up front. Most of your parts should swap over but then you still need to go down the upgrade path from the previous post. Building a dirt jumper and hitting the BMX track, skate park, and local slalom runs might be better to gain the skills before investing in a DH bike. There are a few companies that have pretty nice DJ offerings around $500-600

Seriously, the first step is taking a picture of your XC bike and posting it in the All Mountain Hardtail Thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/all-mountain-hardtail-thread-post-up-yours-279265.html

Post it in there and you're on the way to DH glory. But be sure to update the thread with pics as you replace each component with a DH rated piece but keep the XC rated frame.


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## Simia_4 (Jan 27, 2013)

Charging, your post was very informative but i need to stress that my intent on bringing this horse back alive wasn't to imply my intent on riding my Hardrock through crazy DH stuff. I guess i posted in the wrong thread or something. I meant to imply what would a decent starter DH-FR bike look like/cost etc. I plan on spending as much time as i can this season building up to the level of aggressive DH and just wanted an opinion for something to strive for.


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## lernr (Jul 13, 2012)

Charging is right in general for what he wrote. 

If you are going to spend a grand and some change, and you have it - by all means, get a used DH bike. A great one can be found with some patience and advice.


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## Uncle Six Pack (Aug 29, 2004)

Asking about a good bike is like asking about good beer-so many different people will have so many different opinions. If you want a more capable all-around bike that can handle some DH, then check out nomad, phoenix, enduro.... if you really want to get into DH racing, then you are gonna be looking at something fairly dedicated to nothing but DH-glory, demo, session. Before you go plunking down the money for a DH bike, make sure you go check out some DH riding (on a rental) to make sure it is for you... riding/racing downhill is not exactly just "riding your bike down a hill". And DH bikes are definitely not gonna work for a casual trailride. If you want to do lift-access and shuttle runs, want to do stunts and don't particularly want to race, then SX trail, bullit, bottlerocket are worth looking at.

These are just some random suggestions... most bikes from major manufacturers over the last 6-8 years have been pretty damn decent if you are shopping used. Smaller manufacturers have also been turning out great stuff, but if you are new, the sticking with a major brand may be a safer bet for now. The more you spend, the newer, lighter, shinier , more adjustable the result... although when you are new, those things don't tend to matter as much as being on the right type of bike.

Then again, if all you want to do is "ride your bike down a hill" then don't think for one minute that hardrocks haven't been getting ridden down hills for many years, making many smiles. They are more than capable of handling small jumps and drops and cranking turns as long as you aren't being stupid about it.


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## Simia_4 (Jan 27, 2013)

Uncle, you sir are exactly what i was wanting to hear!!! I've been looking at different LBS around town for pricing to rent a full sus and i'm getting an idea for something to try out. I'd love to get to the fun hairy stuff some day but wanted to test out the hardrock on some easier stuff this season. This really is going to be my first full season of trail riding and seeing what i can do. I knew already that i'd be essentially owning 2 bikes, one for around town/XC and one for gritty DH but your opinion helps! Thanks man!


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## balog (Dec 5, 2008)

Replace your stem for a shorter one (50mm maybe)
Replace your bar for a higher and wider one (30mm X 710mm shoud be fine)
Replace your tires for some knobby wider ones (2,35" Minion DHFs are great)
Guarantee your fork is OK, if not service it.
Save some money and buy a new bike when you have enough.
While you do not have enough money for a new bike... enjoy the feeling of being the one that is doing all the job... when you get a better bike, maybe a full suspension one, you will be able to do bigger moves, but the bike will be doing a big part of it.
These pictures show me jumping my old Specialied P1 AM, a bike with the seme geometry as a Hardrock, that I up-graded and turned into a more agressive XC/Trail bike while I was waiting for my new full suspension bike.


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