# Vitus 20 Plus: thoughts for Tahoe?



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

About to pull the trigger on a 20" for my just turned 6 year old.

Was pretty sure I was going to go with the Vitus 20, but after some suggestions from members here and from the lbs, disc brakes are looking like the way to go. With the Vitus 20 not offering disc, now looking at the Vitus 20 plus.

Looks nice, good geo, but not so sure on the plus tires all the time. I am thinking they will be nice on the trails, but not so sure about the pump track.

Anyone have experience with switching from plus to standard width tires on their 20" plus bike, whatever brand? What nonplus tires did you switch to?

Also, any thoughts on this Vitus 20 Plus? Any other bikes similar to this you would suggest I check out? Will be starting out on low elevation Lake Tahoe trails and pump track/bike park.









Features:

Material: Lightweight 6061-alloy frame
Brakes: Tektro Mechanical Disc Brakes with adjustable brake levers for small hands
Wheel Size: Quick release 20" front and rear wheels
Tyres: Kenda 2.6" tan wall tyres
Drivetrain: 7-Speed Drivetrain
Cassette Ratio: 12-32t Cassette Ratio
Chainring Teeth Count: 32t
Weight: 9.8kg/21.8lbs

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/vitus-20plus-kids-bike/rp-prod168789


----------



## Bassballer150 (Aug 9, 2017)

Nice bike for a good price also curious on what members have experienced, looking for a new bike for my daughter also 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I've been a fan of the value of Vitus even tho I'm not a huge proponent of plus tires on kids. Vitus is apparently a decent company. I like that bike and have recommended to a buddy recently based on the cost if he can get it shipped for cheap/free.

That being said, I sent this to a buddy and he found REI's 20"+ plus bike to be like 50$ cheaper with disk brakes etc iirc. I haven't looked hard at it but it might be a nice option and is potentially sitting in a store for pickup and no shipping. Worth a look I'm guessing.

EDIT: (spec is a bit lower...A LOT heavier at 24lbs instead of 22lbs iirc. Is it really a 36t ring? thats silly if true)

https://www.rei.com/product/143168/co-op-cycles-rev-20-6-speed-plus-kids-bike


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

The Vitus plus looks like you could throw a 24" in there no problem and the fork appears to be suspension corrected. Looks suuuuupppeeerrr slack though. I couldn't find the geo for it. Clicked the geo tab and it just sent me to a wheel size chart. 

But, for $356 you could throw a couple bucks at it. Could turn into a respectable 24.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

jochribs said:


> The Vitus plus looks like you could throw a 24" in there no problem and the fork appears to be suspension corrected. Looks suuuuupppeeerrr slack though. I couldn't find the geo for it. Clicked the geo tab and it just sent me to a wheel size chart.
> 
> But, for $356 you could throw a couple bucks at it. Could turn into a respectable 24.


Agreed. Its a bit odd. Is there anything else with disk brakes in this price range that doesn't have a bad coil fork? GT Prime 20" seems ok for a V-brake option but I'd like to see if there is a disk option. A buddy's kid needs a bike in this price range.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

svinyard said:


> I've been a fan of the value of Vitus even tho I'm not a huge proponent of plus tires on kids...


Ya, I am not so sure about plus either which is why I wondering about putting non-plus tires on a bike designed for plus tires. However, these tires are 2.6" and from experience, that means high volume with an actual width of 2.4" maybe 2.5".

Regardless, as the snow is fast melting on the trails across the street, I am now realizing I forgot how rough, rocky and loose they are, so having the extra cusion and traction would be helpful.



jochribs said:


> The Vitus plus looks like you could throw a 24" in there no problem and the fork appears to be suspension corrected. Looks suuuuupppeeerrr slack though. I couldn't find the geo for it. Clicked the geo tab and it just sent me to a wheel size chart.
> 
> But, for $356 you could throw a couple bucks at it. Could turn into a respectable 24.


I am not so sure a 24" would fit on the rear. As I mentioned, those "plus" tires are only 2.6" and it does not look like there is much room in the rear.

I emailed the Vitus and posted a question on chainreaction.com to see if I could get the correct geo chart for this bike. It shows the geo charts on chain reaction under the "size chart" link, but the numbers are wrong for the 20" plus. Bike looks similar to the geo on the vitu 20, so I am guessing the HA is 67.5 or 68.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Here is the vitus 20 non-plus with geo chart superimposed with the vitus 20 plus. Keep in mind that the non-plus 20" is rolling on tiny 1.75" kenda small blocks.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

singletrackmack said:


> Ya, I am not so sure about plus either which is why I wondering about putting non-plus tires on a bike designed for plus tires. However, these tires are 2.6" and from experience, that means high volume with an actual width of 2.4" maybe 2.5".
> 
> Regardless, as the snow is fast melting on the trails across the street, I am now realizing I forgot how rough, rocky and loose they are, so having the extra cusion and traction would be helpful.
> 
> ...


I saw the reference to 20" Chain Reaction, but it was obviously referring to the standard 20 with the chainstay length, so I went to Vitus's sight and the link didn't redirect properly.

So it's just a guess on the rear end, and you're right, 24" might be a stretch in a stretched 20" rear end (I was mindlessly thinking 24 plus to 26), but depending on how long that bike is, it might fit. I think that rear looks long, and it's long around plus. I'm thinking slacker than 67.5. Who knows? Having the actual frame numbers would help.

Edit... I'm up a tree on a 24" fitting in there.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

jochribs said:


> I think that rear looks long, and it's long around plus. I'm thinking slacker than 67.5. Who knows? Having the actual frame numbers would help.


Ya, actual numbers would help. Hopefully get them soon, but I guess a long rear end is releative. Here is what the rip rock 20 looks like with a 390mm cs and some 20x2.8" plus tires and below that the Commencal Ramones 20+ with 20x2.6" and a 375mm cs. Both look longer than the Vitus, especially the rip rock. But hard to tell for sure.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

No you're totally right. I was typing without thinking and basically treating 20 to 24 like it was 24 to 26. Way different. Total brainfart. 

Yeah, the Vitus is way shorter than the others too. Too bad the 22 thing doesn't have tires outside of BMX. That would be an avenue to persue.


----------



## Bassballer150 (Aug 9, 2017)

For the money can’t go wrong with the vitus I’m pulling the trigger on their 24 in bike..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

svinyard said:


> Vitus is apparently a decent company. I like that bike and have recommended to a buddy recently based on the cost if he can get it shipped for cheap/free.


LOL, Decent? Vitus is a "house brand" of Chain Wiggle/Chain Reaction which is no doubt the biggest online bike retailer in the world aside from Amazon. In no way are they still the "small French steel bike company" like they used to be in the 80's and 90's. That's the reason they can ship it for free to the US for free in 3-4 days. No right or wrong, but there are long threads on this website and others about Wiggle/Chain Reaction/Amazon essentially putting bike shops out of business all over the world due to them selling at bike shop costs or sometimes lower. We dealt with it all the time when I worked at a shop. But that's a whole other thread and plentiful to search out if you go to some of the other forums. 

https://reviews.mtbr.com/chain-reaction-cycles-inside-worlds-largest-on-line-bike-shop


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

GSJ1973 said:


> LOL, Decent? Vitus is a "house brand" of Chain Wiggle/Chain Reaction which is no doubt the biggest online bike retailer in the world aside from Amazon. In no way are they still the "small French steel bike company" like they used to be in the 80's and 90's. That's the reason they can ship it for free to the US for free in 3-4 days. No right or wrong, but there are long threads on this website and others about Wiggle/Chain Reaction/Amazon essentially putting bike shops out of business all over the world due to them selling at bike shop costs or sometimes lower. We dealt with it all the time when I worked at a shop. But that's a whole other thread and plentiful to search out if you go to some of the other forums.
> 
> https://reviews.mtbr.com/chain-reaction-cycles-inside-worlds-largest-on-line-bike-shop


Ahhh, so that's how they are making these things dirt cheap? Oye...tough one. On one hand that 500$ mark is a magic number that parents seem to be able to stomach. I love seeing kids get a somewhat proper bike instead of a semi-mess-of-a-bike that then gets handed down to another kid to deal with. On the other it sucks that they are apparently a giant corp entity (correct me if I'm wrong).

It'd be neat if there was some easy way to have a non-profit, side business that just pumped out cheap 20"/24" hardtails with that cheap spec without a profit. Then you could get the big boutique brands that shun the kids scene (Santa Cruz) to donate in effort to grow the industry. Kind of like ski resorts giving your kid a season pass for 20$. Jochribs could probably bang the frames out overnight!


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

But you do know though Svinny. I'd make a frame special for you. It would be my first one. Slacked TFO, so you could get your brobrah on, and convince everyone that you really do belong. 

You know, be able to really pro ho it up. 

Plus being my first frame, I'd know if my joints were holding up before I guinea pigged my son on one. 

Gosh, this is sounding better every word I type. Hit me up, brah.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

svinyard said:


> Ahhh, so that's how they are making these things dirt cheap? Oye...tough one.


If the choice was between an American made mtb and one made in China, then, ya, I would consider that a tough one. But those aren't the choices. The bike choices are all pretty much the same; Chinese made bikes that most likely all came out of the same factory and have pretty much the same parts that all came from the same place as well.

Went to my Lbs to check out 20" bikes. They carried one kind, Kona. Only had girls colors in stock and CS of 375 mm for non-plus frame. Should I have bought the pink Kona with the long chainstay for my son?


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

To each their own Mack, and I get where you're coming from, but I'd have a hard time buying that bike or ordering from Chain Reaction. It's a slippery slope. 

I mean, if you look at that bike and compare it to the Ramones, it is hundreds less than a very similarly built and specced bike. How? The crushing buying power that this boutique 'Walmart' of sorts has. 

“We don’t want shops to go away, we started as a shop,” says Duggan. “Now we have a retail store and we try to embed in the cycling community as much as possible."

Pure double talk. Guy should run for office.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

By the way GSJ1973, thanks for linking that article. Hadn't seen that and while I figured Chain Reaction was big, I didn't fathom how big. 

...'But as Duggan later pointed out, often in the world of business “when you are small, you want to be bigger, and when you’re bigger, you at least want to be perceived as being smaller.” 

I certainly perceived them as being smaller.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

jochribs said:


> To each their own Mack, and I get where you're coming from, but I'd have a hard time buying that bike or ordering from Chain Reaction. It's a slippery slope...


Why would it be hard for you? Buying the bike with the best geo shouldn't be a moral decision. Is the bike industry that terrible at basic business acumen that is their new business plan? Guilt people into buying bikes from them that are less expensive at other retail outlets?

Retail is cut throat, especially brick and motor. I have been in brick and mortar retail for almost 20 years now. If you can't carry what the customers want, when they want it, in the quantity they want it and at a price they are willing to pay for it, then GTFO. Simple as that. Not going to shed a tear because of others poor business practices.

For example the bike industry put the nail in their own coffin when they decided that having bikes made as cheaply as possible was the most important thing. That is a very poor business decision as there is always someone out there willing to undercut you. And if you don't know that then you have no business in retail. What you want is differentiation, but you don't get that when all the bikes are made in the same factory with the same parts.

Also, going as cheap as possible and having all their bikes made in China opened the doors for letting more hands grab money from each transaction and then those hands wanted all the money themselves and figuring out a way so traditional retail outlets were not longer needed. Again, terrible foresight and a problem of their own making. The bike industry is all but dead anyways because of their poor business dicisions it has made and continues to make and we will be left simply with different outlets to purchase bikes and parts.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

singletrackmack said:


> Retail is cut through, especially brick and motor. I have been in brick and mortar retail for almost 20 years now. If you can't carry what the customers want, when they want it, in the quantity they want it at a price they are willing to pay for, then GTFO. Simple as that. Not going to shed a tear because of others poor business practices.
> 
> For example the bike industry put the nail in their own coffin when they decided that having bikes made as cheaply as possible was the most important thing. That is a very poor business decision as there is always someone out there willing to undercut you. And if you don't know that then you have no business in retail. What you want is differentiation, but you don't get that when all the bikes are made in the same factory with the same parts.
> 
> Also, going as cheap as possible and having all their bikes made in China opened the doors for letting more hands grab money from each transaction and then those hands wanted all the money themselves and figuring out a way so traditional retail outlets were not longer needed. Again, terrible foresight and a problem of their own making. The bike industry is all but dead anyways because of their poor business dicisions it has made and continues to make and we will be left simply with different outlets to purchase bikes and parts.


But you're outlining the manufacturers and bike companies with this. I totally get what your saying. But, it's the 'shops' that are left holding the bag for the bad decisions you cite.

And this isn't singular to the bike industry, as you know. I don't know what bike shops could have done any differently to change the way things have gotten. Kind of like being in a life raft out at sea in a NorEaster. You're going with it, and trying your best not to friggin drown. Not much else you can do.

I was a shop wrench from 97 to 05, off and on to 2012. I had considered owning a shop. I would never do it now.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

jochribs said:


> But you're outlining the manufacturers and bike companies with this. I totally get what your saying. But, it's the 'shops' that are left holding the bag for the bad decisions you cite.
> 
> And this isn't singular to the bike industry, as you know. I don't know what bike shops could have done any differently to change the way things have gotten. Kind of like being in a life raft out at sea in a NorEaster. You're going with it, and trying your best not to friggin drown. Not much else you can do.
> 
> I was a shop wrench from 97 to 05, off and on to 2012. I had considered owning a shop. I would never do it now.


Like I said. Retail is cut throat and Darwinism is in full effect. Bike shops need to carry what customers want, when they want it, in the quantity they want and at a price someone is willing to pay for it, and big part of that is figuring out what customers want they cant easily get somewhere else. That is the job of any retail brick and motor. If you can't do that, you will be out of business no mater what you're selling. And right now, brick and motor bikes shops are not doing that. They need to find products I want, I can't easily get anywhere else and most importantly, have it available. If they can't do that, then the consumer has no need for them to exist.

Also, what do you suggest I do if I don't buy what is the best bike available to me. Should I have bought the pink Kona with bad geo? Should I spend the rest of my Saturday driving around to other bikes shops to see if they have anything in stock that might be kinda of like what I am looking for? I got a lot of **** to do today. I am not sure why I should have to waste my time to try and help them keep afloat because of their own incompetence.

*edit: just read over what I wrote and that sounded harsh. But I stand by what I said. Retail is cut throat.


----------



## ribsteak (Oct 12, 2005)

My kid has the 20" and loves it, starts this years MTB camp Tuesday. The big tires in my opinion give the suspension of taking the sharp edges off. Has been able to rip it up since he got on and getting better and better at shifting.

I would give :thumbsup: for sure. He will be 6 in May.

PS, we'll be in Tahoe with him and the bike in June 1 & 2nd.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

ribsteak said:


> My kid has the 20" and loves it, starts this years MTB camp Tuesday. The big tires in my opinion give the suspension of taking the sharp edges off. Has been able to rip it up since he got on and getting better and better at shifting.
> 
> I would give :thumbsup: for sure. He will be 6 in May.
> 
> PS, we'll be in Tahoe with him and the bike in June 1 & 2nd.


Cool man, anything you don't like? Did you have to pay shipping? Throw up some pics with the kid and any sizing info if its not too much trouble. Seems like that stuff is always hard to gauge for people with stock photos. Cheers on the new bike, always fun!


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

svinyard said:


> Ahhh, so that's how they are making these things dirt cheap? Oye...tough one. On one hand that 500$ mark is a magic number that parents seem to be able to stomach. I love seeing kids get a somewhat proper bike instead of a semi-mess-of-a-bike that then gets handed down to another kid to deal with. On the other it sucks that they are apparently a giant corp entity (correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> It'd be neat if there was some easy way to have a non-profit, side business that just pumped out cheap 20"/24" hardtails with that cheap spec without a profit. Then you could get the big boutique brands that shun the kids scene (Santa Cruz) to donate in effort to grow the industry. Kind of like ski resorts giving your kid a season pass for 20$. Jochribs could probably bang the frames out overnight!


Like I said no right or wrong. But just not the small French Vitus brand we used to know back in the day. They (Chain Reaction/Wiggle) have been banned from shipping Shimano and SRAM to USA, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, etc. since they were selling components for under cost. It's a problem when I can buy an XT rear derailleur for less than my shop can buy it from Shimano direct at their wholesale cost. Same thing applies with the Vitus bikes. The bike brands that sell to dealers, then dealers selling to us can't compete with that spec or price. Think about it, the new Trek Roscoe 24 is the same price and same weight with a rigid fork compared to the Vitus 24 with a suspension fork. It's a great bike for the money, but it's also a bike built in China, shipped to a UK warehouse, didn't even make it out of the box, then went wherever from there. If you can live with bent rotors, scratched q/r's that pop out of a box, etc. as we have seen posted on here and can live with that then that's fine. Hey it's cheap!

Regarding non-profits, I know some people who are very well paid working for at and running "non-profit" companies. I have one friend who makes almost $300K/yr in salary and bonuses who is a chemist for a makeup company who does "3rd party" testing.

There is profit and capitalism in everything, businesses are not in business to not make money. Some just do it differently and advertise it different than others.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

singletrackmack said:


> Like I said. Retail is cut throat and Darwinism is in full effect. Bike shops need to carry what customers want, when they want it, in the quantity they want and at a price someone is willing to pay for it, and big part of that is figuring out what customers want they cant easily get somewhere else. That is the job of any retail brick and motor. If you can't do that, you will be out of business no mater what you're selling. And right now, brick and motor bikes shops are not doing that. They need to find products I want, I can't easily get anywhere else and most importantly, have it available. If they can't do that, then the consumer has no need for them to exist.
> 
> Also, what do you suggest I do if I don't buy what is the best bike available to me. Should I have bought the pink Kona with bad geo? Should I spend the rest of my Saturday driving around to other bikes shops to see if they have anything in stock that might be kinda of like what I am looking for? I got a lot of **** to do today. I am not sure why I should have to waste my time to try and help them keep afloat because of their own incompetence.
> 
> *edit: just read over what I wrote and that sounded harsh. But I stand by what I said. Retail is cut throat.


Oh it absolutely is, and the consumer is largely a spoiled brat too if you look at it honestly. It's the consumer that's cutthroat.

As far as brick and mortar is concerned, there really isn't anything that a consumer wants, that they can't get somewhere else, for less. That I can think of off the top of my head anyway. Maybe you can come up with some examples?

It could be argued that even without all of the parameters that you've outlined for the brick and mortar to exist, there still is a need for them in the community. Even if they aren't the lowest price. And they just can not be when they can not compete with the stocking power, the buying power of these giants that the spoiled brats are feeding steroids to. Retail has absolutely thinned what they can carry, for this very reason. Because the picky brat consumer, that will buy something sight unfriggin seen from a mega giant on the other side of the Atlantic won't wait for a shop to special order something for them. Because, they have to have it, RIGHT NOW. And they want it for practically free.

Honestly, this all speaks more to the human condition of being self centered than anything else. We really aren't getting better as a species. But, I digress.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

GSJ1973 said:


> Regarding non-profits, I know some people who are very well paid working for at and running "non-profit" companies. I have one friend who makes almost $300K/yr in salary and bonuses who is a chemist for a makeup company who does "3rd party" testing.
> 
> There is profit and capitalism in everything, businesses are not in business to not make money. Some just do it differently and advertise it different than others.


Exactly this. It is simply a title for tax (non tax) purposes. An autantonym, a contradiction in itself.


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

jochribs said:


> As far as brick and mortar is concerned, there really isn't anything that a consumer wants, that they can't get somewhere else, for less. That I can think of off the top of my head anyway. Maybe you can come up with some examples?
> 
> It could be argued that even without all of the parameters that you've outlined for the brick and mortar to exist, there still is a need for them in the community. Even if they aren't the lowest price. And they just can not be when they can not compete with the stocking power, the buying power of these giants that the spoiled brats are feeding steroids to. Retail has absolutely thinned what they can carry, for this very reason. Because the picky brat consumer, that will buy something sight unfriggin seen from a mega giant on the other side of the Atlantic won't wait for a shop to special order something for them. Because, they have to have it, RIGHT NOW. And they want it for practically free.


That one thing is service. Servicing bikes, setting tires up tubeless, bleeding brakes, rebuilding forks and shocks, etc. is what shops will eventually be known for. Many of them are going that direction already and becoming "demo centers" where brands front load a shop and shops don't actually own those bikes, the brands still do. My buddy bought an end of season Yeti demo from a shop last year that Yeti actually owned still.

Everything will morph into online sales, even brands like Ibis, Yeti, Pivot, etc. who "sell only to shops" will be forced to sell direct, or at least some type of click/ship/collect from dealer component like Giant, Trek and now Specialized have. My sons friends are buying Canyon and YT's, for a broke teenager (buying their own bikes) that ride a ton they offer way too much value in an awesome package. Big brands are going to have to play catch up, or maybe start buying up the direct sales brands and roll them into the portfolio I would think.


----------



## ribsteak (Oct 12, 2005)

svinyard said:


> Cool man, anything you don't like? Did you have to pay shipping? Throw up some pics with the kid and any sizing info if its not too much trouble. Seems like that stuff is always hard to gauge for people with stock photos. Cheers on the new bike, always fun!























I didn't pay shipping or tax, need to lower the air pressure in the tires and when I pulled in the reach for the brake levers I had to adjust the rear brake cable a bit. All seems good so far!

Can you other Ding Dongs go squabble somewhere else? This is about the Vitus 20 Plus bike for kids.


----------



## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Y'all need to go grab a beer or something.

Back to the OP - Plus tires. Not a fan. However, on a 20" bike for bike "rides" probably not too bad. For the bike park, not very good. Handling will be "ok" but it won't help with jumps and other shenanigans. 

Little 20" wheels have a hard time with most trail obstacles or rough trail surface. So the plus tires and low tire pressures will help there. I saw a couple kids at our local Friday night groms clinic with 20' Flow with plus tires and an air shock. Which seemed reasonable for riding trails. Their dad said he thought it helped partially offset the disadvantage of the smaller wheels.

But both of those kids also owned a couple BMX bikes for jumping and whatnot.

So IMHO the plus bike would be good for "rides" but not so hot for bike "play" at the Truckee Bike Park. Not that your kid couldn't ride it in the bike park and be just fine. But to put it in perspective, the bikes you're looking at are huge leaps ahead of most of the kids bikes in the market. And arguably better than the Kona you looked at.


----------



## ribsteak (Oct 12, 2005)

Back on topic, he's in the red helmet. I can't figure out how to insert the video.


----------



## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Please stay on topic everyone. If you can't help the OP with advice, move on. Off-topic comments will be deleted.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

ribsteak said:


> View attachment 1249009
> View attachment 1249010
> View attachment 1249011
> 
> ...


Nice! Thanks for the pics. Really helps to get an idea of how it compares to other 20" plus bikes.

Went to the bike park with the kids today. Pump track was full of trek and specialized 20" plus bikes. However, those plus tires looked way bigger than the tires in your pictures. Pretty sure the trek and specialized were runnin 2.8" or 3" wide tires.

I plan on having some bmx 2.3 or 2.4s for him to try at the pump track. Hopefully that will work well o the Vitus. Ultimately, I will get him a proper bmx for the park. He has a 16" schwinn bmx bike to use for now if he wants, but it is really heavy.


----------



## ribsteak (Oct 12, 2005)

The tires on it are only 20 x 2.6", not huge.


----------

