# the most revoltingly cheap light you can think of



## mrchristian (Apr 2, 2006)

My friend and I are interested in doing some night riding on our local trail. Unfortunately both of us are saving up for college tuition among other things, so neither of us have any money to spend. Been looking at light choices and it seems that rechargable lights rated at 10W start at about $100. WAY too expensive.

Is there some sort of light I could use that isn't rechargable (so its a lot cheaper basically) 
Cateye HL-EL530 is supposed to have 1500 candlepower (don't know what this is in the real world, but 1,500 is a lot of freaking candles) and runs off 4 AA's. It's $50. I could just jack some of my sister's rechargable batteries that go with her digital camera, and use some disposable ones too. How does this compare with a 10w LED light?

I've looked at DIY lights and they all require at minimum $30 lead-acid batteries that are supposed to be heavy as hell and only offer 1.5 hours of life @ ~12watts. Plus you need a $20 charger, $5-10 bulb and a lot of other stuff like wires, switches, circuit breakers, bla bla bla Does not seem worth it.

Anybody ever tried strapping a big-ass flashlight to their bike? I have a maglight that can put out some serious light, but i'm still not sure if It would be enough since i've never used a 10w rechargable thats supposed to give fair performance on a trail.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

5 bucks shipped.

http://www.ledshoppe.com/Product/ledp/LP3002.htm

They work. Can't ride very fast, but you can ride for hours.

More revolting lights that work.

http://www.ledshoppe.com/ledheadlight.htm

You can climb with these type of lights very easily. You can decend with them as well, but not very fast. The point is that you CAN night ride for 5 or 10 bucks plus batteries.

Also, candlepower is a bad indicator of light brightness. It is only an indicator of the lights brightest POINT. Lumens is a more accurate indicator of a lights brightness. Don't let the candlepower advertising make you excited.


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## mrchristian (Apr 2, 2006)

Now THAT is revoltingly cheap! 

I'm looking at this one:
New AA 21 LED Headlight (LP2009)
Ultra bright LED light 
High Intensity LED 
Extensive Lifetime of LED (100,000 hrs) 
Adjustable headstrap 
Keep lamp from bouncing 
Adjustable lnclination 
Water Resistant 
Battery Life: 30 hrs
Use 2 x AA batteries

It's probably equivalent to those $20 battery lights used for commuting right? Probably not enough, but hey. If you want a revoltingly cheap light, you have to deal with a revoltingly cheap light! The thought of the bombing down intermediate singletrack with these makes me jump with excitement. :arf:


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeah, most cheap lights claim either candlepower, or micro-candlepower (as in, thousandths of a candle). So you'll see stuff that claims to have 50,000 mcd like it really means anything more than its good for getting a reflection off animal eyes, stopsigns, and car reflectors and not much else. But you get eight 20,000 mcd LED's together with a good reflector, and you can have a good light for hiking, or running multiples together, for technical singletrack riding.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

I have a pair of Cateye 5-LED lights. They work good with one on the bars and one duct-taped to my helmet. Not nearly as cheap as the one at LEDShoppe, but then again, they're a couple years old now, I got them just before LEDs took off everywhere. The 5-led 4-AA at LEDShoppe looks to be the best deal. Maybe get a couple.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

I did make a bike light out of an LED flashlight. It can cost well under $50 if you scrounge around for parts. Will all new parts it was $46. It would take a weekend to make if you are slow. Most of the time you are watching epoxy glue dry.

The regulated circuit will run the light over 4 hours with full brightness then 2 extra hours of lower brightness using 4AA alkaline or rechargeable NiMH batteries. It maintains brightness with 3AA batteries and lower brightness with 2AA batteries. I'd say it is very bright but I'm not an expert. Others would know better then me. It has a narrow spot beam, a wider corona then a decent spill beam to avoid close objects. I can see much better at night and cars can't help but notice me on the road.

Here is a large ring around picture with other inexpensive lights. I call my light the Road & Track/Trail light (RATT.) It is based on a Streamlight ProPolymer Luxeon LED flashlight.


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## Rex_Skidmore (Mar 5, 2006)

...and what you're really seeking is a light that delivers honest lumens, not candlepower or mcd ratings numbers.

Adequate singletrack lighting begins at 160 lumens. Aim higher. Look into the MR16 DIY lights. Use Li-Ion protected cells. Unprotected cells are less expensive, but you're really seeking protection from explosion. It happens. What price is your leg, arm, or other irreplaceable body parts if your unprotected cells explode? Right.

Save, borrow, work more hours, call in a favor, ask Santa. Do whatever it takes. If it's worth doing, it is worth doing correctly. There are a great number of friendly, helpful people online who can point you in the right direction to build a safe light system. We're all taking enough chances with everything else in life. Don't add one more.

Here's a good source of info. Register and use their search function. Ask some solid questions and receive some solid advice : www.candlepowerforums.com

~ Rex


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

Dark Mower, that's a very interesting light. What's the wattage of the flashlight you used? Where did you get it?


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## ScareyH22A (Sep 24, 2006)

I have the Cateye HL-EL530 and it's barely bright enough to walk around with let alone ride your mtn bike at any sorta speed on a trail.

I stopped wasting money on "cheap" lights and went all out and bought a L&M Arc Li-Ion Ultra HID. Now I can ride as fast as I want and not worry about running past my light. But even with the HID, I feel that I'd be happy with another maybe on my bar so I can throw my headmount beam further down the trail while the bar mount keeps the immediate front lit up.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm glad you were interested in it. Your answer and more are at this link-
http://www.customlightfactory.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24


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## jabpn (Jun 21, 2004)

I have the Night Hawk Emitter. It uses a 1 W LED like the CatEye. I use this mostly for road riding and easy trails such as cinder rails-to-trails trails. On the road the light very quickly gets washed out by oncoming traffic. I can keep my line but only by concentrating very hard. I don't usually have to slow down though. On the r-t-t trail I can ride in the 20ish mph range most of the time but only in the places where I can get enough side light i.e. open field sections. Keep in mind this is a fairly wide trail about 6 ft across. I am constantly running over things although it's usually small things. I can usually see big things enough to avoid them but by no means to identify them until I'm almost five ft away. On typical singletrack I found I can't really use it as I slow down way to much. Turns and obstacles come up to fast otherwise and I typically end up off the trail, a lot. I wish now that I had at least a 3 W LED system but they weren't around as I got the Night Hawk when it first came out and there weren't alot of cheap alternatives at the time. If a 3 W LED truly puts out 3 times the power of the 1 W then I think this would be the ABSOLUTE least amount I could stand on trails although. I think the cheapest route would be a DIY Halogen of at least 10 W or even a comparable system from Nashbar or the like.


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## ICanDigIt (Jun 23, 2004)

It's tough to find a decent light set-up with the budget you have...

Have you considered an LED upgrade for a 2AA maglite? It uses a 1W luxeon LED, 10 times brighter than a regular bulb. The sweet thing is the maglite focusing (flood to spot) is unaffected. Now, one of these would MAYBEE work. But if you had two, you could mount one on your handlebars set to flood, and one on your helmet set to spot. At $24 it's not super cheap though....So figure 50 bucks for 2, 20 for a minimaglite (assuming you can scrounge up one somewhere...even better if you can find 2), 10 for mounting hardware. Thats 80...meh...probably too much. But if you allready have two maglites around, it's around 60....Mind you, Ive never actually done this. Seems like it could work though.

http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=674&link_str=178&partno=TLE5


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

jabpn said:


> ...I wish now that I had at least a 3 W LED system but they weren't around as I got the Night Hawk when it first came out and there weren't alot of cheap alternatives at the time. If a 3 W LED truly puts out 3 times the power of the 1 W then I think this would be the ABSOLUTE least amount I could stand on trails although. I think the cheapest route would be a DIY Halogen of at least 10 W or even a comparable system from Nashbar or the like.


This is truly off-topic but enlightening.

You might want to save your money. A 1W system can be better performing then a 3W system. There are no rules or standards in advertising portable lights and a lot of marketers extremely willing to hype specs to take your money.

A Lux III (LumiLEDs does not call them 3W- only marketing people do) can be driven to 3W but that doesn't mean they are driven at 3W. To compound the problem, a Lux I can be driven to 3W safely.










With the help of a couple of friends we build armor-plated handheld AA lights. For a test, one was an underdriven Lux III with an overachieving, bright, UW0J emitter. The other was a slightly overdriven Lux I TWOH. Some people might question the existence of a Lux I T-bin but let me assure you they did exist. We have the right connections at LumiLEDs to get them.

The overdriven Lux I won the lighting contest. As the battery exhausted, the U-bin beam dropped quicker and the normally white beam shifted to a yellow tint, a V0 tint. The overdriven Lux I emitter stayed brighter longer and the X0 tint, slightly bluish-white, became a more neutral white tint. We downgraded the AA light to a Lux I emitter to gain performance. 80% of the AA lights we made had the Lux I installed and the other 20% had (at a reseller's insistence) the Lux III U-bin.

The alluring words 1W, 3W & 5W are misleading. We don't know if the words mean watts draining from batteries, going through the converter (if there is any), what is coming out of the emitter or what is finally going through the window of the light. It is all a mystery hyped by light manufacturers.

Please don't assume a 3W is automatically brighter then a 1W. It could be an expensive learning curve. I've been there. Be very careful what you read and check with others because a lot of money is at stake. A better designed 1W will outperform a poorly designed 3W. Watch carefully what they sell you. Marketing hype can throw a smoke screen over real performance.

From this curved trail post I now put you back on the main road of the topic.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

*Maglite 2 AA-cell w/ 3W LED*



ICanDigIt said:


> Have you considered an LED upgrade for a 2AA maglite?


Actually, you can pick-up Maglite's w/ 3W LED's -- I saw them at Wal-Mart for US$24.95 a couple of weeks ago. Given the comments about wattages, I am wondering how bright the lights really are...


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Maglite LED drop-ins and complete lights (2C & D, 3D) are different from other lights. They have a thermal throttle. Given the limited heat sink of the Maglite, the throttle was added to prevent overheating and causing premature emitter death.

For a couple of minutes the Maglite LED will be bright then dims down. That would be good for selling a bright light but once sold the limitations are noticed. It is good for battery life but not as nice for a distance beam.

The nice advantage to a big Maglite is the reflector. It is designed to throw a great beam. Mated to a large emitter, Lux V emitter, it has a big and bright spot beam that throws a really good distance. I keep a couple of Mag reflectors around for experiments.


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## Rex_Skidmore (Mar 5, 2006)

*Ohhhhhhhhh, I don't know. I'm just learning.*

#13 is a Quality post by Dark Mower. Read it once more.

I really wouldn't bother with the MagLED unless you intend to keep it as a flashlight. Fry's currently has the 4D size LED for $20 and HomeDepot will price match -10% on advertised items. So, $18 for that model.

Mounting a flashlight to a mountain bike would not be my first choice; mounting *the head* of a flashlight to a mountain bike -- with a frame-mounted battery pack is a better idea.

As far as the minimag goes, the best output you'll find is the TL-3 conversion sold here. It will work only with 3.7V Li-Ion batteries. Recommend only using rechargeables with circuit protection. Must use the aluminum reflector and glass lens. *The stock plastic will melt*. I own some of these kits and the light output is phenomenal for the size of the flashlight. Again, it would not be my first choice to mount MiniMag lights to my handlebars...

My first choice for LEDs on a bike??? A combination of 3-4 Lux IIIs in a tint around the TX0J or UX0J or TW0H with IMS20s in a Maglite D-sized head, regulated by a BAM!, powered by 4-6 18650s. I know. It's a foreign language. My first post here gave a link to get started.

My next project involves four Lux Vs on a handlebar mount. 
~ Rex


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

Dark Mower said:


> I'm glad you were interested in it. Your answer and more are at this link-
> http://www.customlightfactory.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24


Thanks for the link. I have bookmarked for future reference ;-) One of the 'reference lights' in the article was a mini-maglite 2xAA -- was this one of the 3-W LED or the older incandescent lights? I am curious how the newer LED lights would compare. I read in one of the online reviews that the 2xAA version actually only emits 1 W but the 3xAA emits closer to 2.75 W.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

jabpn said:


> I have the Night Hawk Emitter. It uses a 1 W LED like the CatEye.


Its not a 1W, its a 3W. I'm not sure where the myth got started they use a 1W but its rather annoying. I've got lights using the 1W Luxeons and they're nowhere near as bright as the NiteHawk Emitter. Meanwhile I have lights with the 3W luxeons and go figure...identical brightness to nitehawk.


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## Rex_Skidmore (Mar 5, 2006)

Let's all remember that 1w and 3w are inputs.
Lumens and colors are the outputs.
Sooooo many variables.

- You could have a 3w Luxeon LED with a R-bin code that is easily beaten in lumens output by a 1w Luxeon LED with a U-bin code.

- You could send 3w to a LED with 3w handling capability, only to have it set up inefficiently and the output lumens could equal that of a 1w LED.

- You could send 3w to a 1w LED and fry it. LEDs are not meant to be "over-volted" like incandescents.

The bin codes also tell the story of the color and lumens output of a specific LED. Lumileds is splitting hairs, but has provided charts which allow a person to compare the anticipated output of a specific LED. The forward voltage becomes important when one determines the battery power used to drive the LED(s).

~ Rex


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## eggraid101 (Mar 13, 2006)

Dark Mower said:


> This is truly off-topic but enlightening.
> 
> With the help of a couple of friends we build armor-plated handheld AA lights. For a test, one was an underdriven Lux III with an overachieving, bright, UW0J emitter. The other was a slightly overdriven Lux I TWOH. Some people might question the existence of a Lux I T-bin but let me assure you they did exist.


Thank God! I was worried that the Lux I T-bin was a myth along the lines of the Loch-Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Now I can at least get some friggin sleep at night!


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## sanmusa (Jun 25, 2004)

eggraid101 said:


> Thank God! I was worried that the Lux I T-bin was a myth along the lines of the Loch-Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Now I can at least get some friggin sleep at night!


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## FlatFender (Aug 28, 2006)

Dark Mower said:


> I did make a bike light out of an LED flashlight. It can cost well under $50 if you scrounge around for parts. Will all new parts it was $46. It would take a weekend to make if you are slow. Most of the time you are watching epoxy glue dry.
> 
> The regulated circuit will run the light over 4 hours with full brightness then 2 extra hours of lower brightness using 4AA alkaline or rechargeable NiMH batteries. It maintains brightness with 3AA batteries and lower brightness with 2AA batteries. I'd say it is very bright but I'm not an expert. Others would know better then me. It has a narrow spot beam, a wider corona then a decent spill beam to avoid close objects. I can see much better at night and cars can't help but notice me on the road.
> 
> Here is a large ring around picture with other inexpensive lights. I call my light the Road & Track/Trail light (RATT.) It is based on a Streamlight ProPolymer Luxeon LED flashlight.


So, I just bought one of these lights (Streamlight 4aa Luxeon) I strapped it to my helmet last night for my commute home. VERY nice light. The throw is amazing. Im not sure if I can tear it apart because its such a nice light. The only thing I want now is something on my bars to light up directly in front of my wheel. 
Thanks for the writeup.


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## journey (Jan 27, 2004)

FlatFender said:


> So, I just bought one of these lights (Streamlight 4aa Luxeon) I strapped it to my helmet last night for my commute home. VERY nice light. The throw is amazing. Im not sure if I can tear it apart because its such a nice light. The only thing I want now is something on my bars to light up directly in front of my wheel.
> Thanks for the writeup.


How did you strap it to your help? I was actually thinking of getting one of these lights for the express purpose of using it as a helmet light. If strapping it to the helmet does not look too tacky I might save myself the trouble of cutting it up & building the remote battery case.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

journey said:


> Thanks for the link. I have bookmarked for future reference ;-) One of the 'reference lights' in the article was a mini-maglite 2xAA -- was this one of the 3-W LED or the older incandescent lights? I am curious how the newer LED lights would compare. I read in one of the online reviews that the 2xAA version actually only emits 1 W but the 3xAA emits closer to 2.75 W.


The Mini Maglite was the old incandescent model.










The Lux I T-bin, Lux III V-bin & Lux V X-bin have been made obsolete by an emitter that is much brighter. We have worked the Osram Ostar 15w into on a portable light with a boost circuit in it. And a couple more tricks when we are done. With Osram's blessing and a little overdrive, we've pushed LED lights into HID brightness. Check out the beam from the emitter running on AA batteries. The light was roaming around the streets of Japan a couple of nights ago. I hope to have one of the prototype lights in my hand in two weeks.

https://www.osram-os.com/ostar-lighting/


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## FlatFender (Aug 28, 2006)

journey said:


> How did you strap it to your help? I was actually thinking of getting one of these lights for the express purpose of using it as a helmet light. If strapping it to the helmet does not look too tacky I might save myself the trouble of cutting it up & building the remote battery case.


Nothing pretty, just a few nylon ties.


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## killsoft (Feb 4, 2006)

Dark Mower said:


> The Lux I T-bin, Lux III V-bin & Lux V X-bin have been made obsolete by an emitter that is much brighter. We have worked the Osram Ostar 15w into on a portable light with a boost circuit in it. And a couple more tricks when we are done. With Osram's blessing and a little overdrive, we've pushed LED lights into HID brightness. Check out the beam from the emitter running on AA batteries. The light was roaming around the streets of Japan a couple of nights ago. I hope to have one of the prototype lights in my hand in two weeks.
> 
> http://www.osram-os.com/ostar-lighting/


Yeehah. That looks like six emitters on one die. Where can I get one in the USA and how much?

KS


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Great beam, huh?  I hope in a couple of weeks I'll be able to share more beam shots using the 15W prototype light.

Osram makes two versions, the 10W, 4-die, and the 15W, 6-die. Ostar is ramping up for full production now. It looks like a hot seller. The emitter works well with a Shark converter from the Sandwich Shoppe. The emitter is not cheap but it is an excellent product. We pre-ordered a bunch of them and 30% of the order should be arriving in Japan any day now. We ordered directly through Osram in Japan. There is a group buy here for the 10W version-
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=131040
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=137572

Another person has been testing the 4 die version, the Ostar 10W. He 'beamed' his barn from over 400 feet away. That is over 1.3 times the length of a football field. He has pictures of the beam shot here-
http://knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/771700/post/972658/
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=123417

This is fun stuff. :thumbsup:


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## killsoft (Feb 4, 2006)

Dark Mower said:


> Great beam, huh?  I hope in a couple of weeks I'll be able to share more beam shots using the 15W prototype light.
> 
> Osram makes two versions, the 10W, 4-die, and the 15W, 6-die. Ostar is ramping up for full production now. It looks like a hot seller. The emitter works well with a Shark converter from the Sandwich Shoppe. The emitter is not cheap but it is an excellent product. We pre-ordered a bunch of them and 30% of the order should be arriving in Japan any day now. We ordered directly through Osram in Japan. There is a group buy here for the 10W version-
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=131040
> ...


Thanks for the info! I'd say halogen and HID are now officially dead...

KS


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