# Filling the holes in the seat stays



## drMP (Jun 4, 2006)

Folks, 
got a nice steel frame that has little holes on the seat stays (down near the dropouts). These holes are on the seat and chain stays. I did a very wet ride a few weeks ago in Portland area, and after the ride, turned my bike upside down and water came out of the holes! Yikes! I did another ride last night in wet and muck and not I'm worried about water in the frame....

So now i want to seal those holes- but how? What should i pre-treat the frame with to make sure it is both dry and sealed internally? 

thanks
drMP


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## swift (Apr 3, 2007)

The holes are to let the water out...Probably want to add one to BB, if not already there. (edit: they initially serve to let the gasses escape during the welding/brazing process)

Treat the inside of your frame with "framesaver", "waxoyl", etc to protect the steel from oxygen. In Portland, I'd do this annually +/-.


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

Even experienced builders seem to be split on this issue, sealed or vented. I prefer vented, as I've seen more than a few sealed frames rusted out. Your mileage will of course, vary.


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## RedtiresII71 (Apr 11, 2011)

Other posters are correct to say that those are indeed vent holes. They provide an escape for hot gases during the brazing/welding process and prevent them from blowing back out through the braze/weld area during the process. Now, when I was a framebuilder, we always sealed them with a little silver and finished the area prior to painting. The vent holes however, will not effectively drain water, per se. 

Also, they are not a significant entry point for water, unless you actually submerge the area. "Framesaver" or whatever you use, will do you well in protecting the inside of the tubes. The biggest threat to steel bikes, especially in your area, is condensation. Once the air inside the tubes is cooled (like a cold, wet ride outside) and then rapidly heated (you bring it inside) water vapor in will create a small amount of water to form inside the tube. This cycle, over time, will eventually cause rust to form inside the tube. Here's the thing about the vent holes your referring to though...they're not the only one's on the bike. Most likely (and I say that as I have no idea what frame you have, or how it was built) I suspect that the water infiltrated through other areas, such as the bottom bracket vent holes, which are very common. How is the "saltiness" of the air/water in Portland? If it's rather high, over time, you will get some of that into the bike and the build-up is, well, saltwater effectively, which we all know oxidizes steel at a rather rapid rate.

You certainly can seal those holes on the stays, a little silicone will do that. But for you, coating the inside of the frame and doing regular maintenance of the bike, to include removing the bottom bracket and making sure your draining any water build-up will help. Also, it will keep your bottom bracket from seizing in the shell, etc... 

The biggest thing that I would be really worried about though, especially in your type of environment, is chipping in the paint. Once that salt air/water mix gets under a paint chip it will stay there and corrode the metal. So, if your looking to keep your frame for years and years, regular cleaning, paint touch-up and waxing will pay long term dividends in longevity.


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## drMP (Jun 4, 2006)

Great reply, thanks. I always remove the seat post, and flip the bike over, but don't pull the cranks often enough; I'll do that tonight. 

What about shooting WD40 into the holes?


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## wizzer16 (Sep 9, 2010)

I was just talking about "to vent of not to vent" with a LBS owner and he said that trek has been getting calls about the stays filling up with water and blowing out when they freeze.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

edoz said:


> Even experienced builders seem to be split on this issue, sealed or vented. I prefer vented, as I've seen more than a few sealed frames rusted out. Your mileage will of course, vary.


Rusted out to the point of failure?

I talked to Matty B formally of IF about this and his comment was that you can only oxidize as much steel as you have oxygen, makes sense. Obviously one pin hole ruins that theory. I've seen a couple sealed frames look pretty rusty inside as well, but not to the point of failure. I remember Wade telling me he was always surprised by the amount of rust inside an IF when he did a bunch of eccentric conversions.

Personally I leave mine open, but nothing I ride here in the desert is going to rust out.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

drMP said:


> Great reply, thanks. I always remove the seat post, and flip the bike over, but don't pull the cranks often enough; I'll do that tonight.
> 
> What about shooting WD40 into the holes?


WD-40 is not the right thing to use. Get a can of JP Weigle's framesaver, treat the frame, and go ride.


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## pyranha (Aug 7, 2007)

customfab said:


> Rusted out to the point of failure?
> 
> I talked to Matty B formally of IF about this and his comment was that you can only oxidize as much steel as you have oxygen, makes sense. Obviously one pin hole ruins that theory. I've seen a couple sealed frames look pretty rusty inside as well, but not to the point of failure. I remember Wade telling me he was always surprised by the amount of rust inside an IF when he did a bunch of eccentric conversions.
> 
> Personally I leave mine open, but nothing I ride here in the desert is going to rust out.


I recently did a repair on an IF where the seat tube had several holes rusted through near the bottom bracket. The bottom bracket shell itself also had pin holes rusted through. It happens all the time! On my frames all tubes are sealed with the exception of the seat tube. It takes me all of 2 minutes to finish sealing tubes after building a frame. Once sealed....no oxygen = no rust. This leaves only the seat tube for the owner to deal with.


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## RedtiresII71 (Apr 11, 2011)

Damn...this whole conversation has made me want to be a framebuilder all over again!


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## drMP (Jun 4, 2006)

Followup: On wednesday I did a great hard and fast road ride (Masi 3V from ~1990), where at about 30 miles out it started to rain for the rest of the ride. I got home, pulled my seat and left the bike in the living room near the wood stove (it is still winter in Northern Idaho!). 

Last night (thursday) i took the bike to the shop and pulled the bottom bracket. I had a puddle of water in the bottom bracket! Thankfully i had the framed sealed when i had ti re-painted a few years ago! 

I then took apart my mountain bike (Spot SS) and this time i had water AND at least a tablespoon of uber-fine mud! I'm glad i did that because my bottom bracket is not crunchy... I have a King BB on order and Framesaver.


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