# The post-ride DUI



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I started this same topic in a regional forum but wanted to bring this up here as well:

So I was at the local trail - club ride on Wednesday. A good friend said he was not drinking beer and I asked why. He said he got a post-ride DUI on Highway 85 on Dec 27. Two and half good beers for his 170lb body got him to .08 blood/alcohol level.

His life has been turned upside down with $7k expenses so far, jail, pending trial and 20 days of labor possible. I talked to him for 20 minutes and got all the details.

Things I learned:

- 2 .5 IPAs, post-ride got him to .08 level

- 6 months of misery until it's all behind him

- about 20 days of duty, usually labor clean-up. Community service will be around double that since easier work

- CHP treated him like a career criminal

- the longer you wait for the breathalyzer test, the more your blood alcohol rises for about 3 hours

- after Jan 1, 2019, they need to install an expensive breathalyzer device on your car to start it.

- can take away your license on the spot, before trial

- Just because you're under .08, doesn't mean you're in the clear.

So this is just a share of what I learned a couple days ago. If you have more info to add/correct, please do so. It is a tough subject since it's part of what we do... ie, me. 

We try to drink responsibly and this is the first-case (that I know of) in my circle. The shame/guilt is intense so I'm glad he shared with me.

Thoughts? You have a post-ride beer at the parking lot, brewery or not at all?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

For me? Almost never in the parking lot. And if I do, it's only one low abv beer if available. I'll go somewhere post-ride where I can ALSO get food, though. Still usually just a single beer because dehydration and beer is never a good combo. But combined with some reasonably hearty food like a burger or a burrito or something and more time, driving home is not an issue.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

I always look at the alcohol content (ie avoid the big beers) and if I'm driving it's two beers max over ~3 hours if I'm also eating.

Otherwise 1 beer and switch to water.

I should add, I'm no saint and have made mistakes.. though luckily I've never hurt anyone or been convicted of a DUI.

How strong were the IPA that your buddy was drinking?


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

Not at all. Too much on the line for that so I can wait.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm usually alone, so nope. I also need food, at 150lbs one beer after a ride will get me to DUI status. 

You just can't take those chances these days.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Harold said:


> For me? Almost never in the parking lot. And if I do, it's only one low abv beer if available. I'll go somewhere post-ride where I can ALSO get food, though. Still usually just a single beer because dehydration and beer is never a good combo. But combined with some reasonably hearty food like a burger or a burrito or something and more time, driving home is not an issue.


Yeah, thanks for the share.

Yes, looking at the ABV is huge!!! In the US, they always show the alcohol percentage. In other countries, not so much. Homebrew is common in my circles too and I always ask the brewer.

Some double IPAs that are very, very good have double the alcohol of what they taste like. Belgians are dangerous too.

Something interesting is I have NO idea what my blood alcohol level is. Does anybody know??? Is there a consumer device that would tell us? I bet if I had that in the parking lot beer session, folks would be very interested to know what the actual data is.

fc


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

fc said:


> Something interesting is I have NO idea what my blood alcohol level is. Does anybody know??? Is there a consumer device that would tell us? I bet if I had that in the parking lot beer session, folks would be very interested to know what the actual data is.
> 
> fc


Seems like that a product like that would be a huge liability for whoever produces it. Just imagine testing at .04 on your personal reader and then johnny law comes by and you test .10 on their reader. Bad news


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Never post ride. Only at home when it's late and I don't need to drive out. Never been drunk either, so...



fc said:


> Something interesting is I have NO idea what my blood alcohol level is. Does anybody know??? Is there a consumer device that would tell us? I bet if I had that in the parking lot beer session, folks would be very interested to know what the actual data is.
> 
> fc


Buy yourself a breathalyzer.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Train Wreck said:


> Seems like that a product like that would be a huge liability for whoever produces it. Just imagine testing at .04 on your personal reader and then johnny law comes by and you test .10 on their reader. Bad news


Exactly right and it has happened
https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/24/ftc-finds-shark-tank-connected-breathalyzers-are-inaccurate/


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Hmmm, this could have been posted under the KTSO thread as well.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

fc, what do you mean by this, "- Just because you're under .08, doesn't mean you're in the clear."


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Scott O said:


> fc, what do you mean by this, "- Just because you're under .08, doesn't mean you're in the clear."


DUI vs. DWI


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

<edit> Sniped by Jayem with a more succinct answer.

This may not hold fully for all jurisdictions but in a lot of cases....
You can be still be charged with impaired if you are under the legal maximum.
Over the legal maximum it a given, under it is at the officers discretion.
If you are showing obvious signs of impairment, you do not have to be over the alcohol limit. Same for any impairing substance, from cold meds to smack, or any combination including sleep deprivation.

With a Chief of Police for a Grandfather, a cop father, and a cop older brother, I had this drilled into me starting long before I got my licence.


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## cobi (Apr 29, 2008)

This is why I have strategically made myself weigh 250lbs..... (and try to keep to Coors Original or Miller Lite).

In all seriousness, this is a good topic and yes I have thought about it plenty....... and I'm sure I've overdone it a few times as well. I am pretty conscious of it though and try to be responsible. I find only bringing 2 (or 4 if sharing) beers with in a small cooler helps. Bringing a case of beer with is just asking for trouble. 

Is it weird that I pretty much ONLY drink after rides anymore? I think I had the same 12-pack in my fridge all winter. I really have no desire to drink anymore unless it's after a ride (or trail building)! Weird.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Scott O said:


> fc, what do you mean by this, "- Just because you're under .08, doesn't mean you're in the clear."


So what I understand is this. If you take the breathalyzer test and score a .07, the officer can still handcuff you and take you to jail and impound your car.

Then you'll probably do a blood test in jail and get the definitive answer. So, not a DUI but still a night in the slammer.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The other minor, bike-related detail is... you can't go to Whistler anymore from the US.

They will not let you in at the border.

Significant efforts can result in visa/pleas/permissions can be granted for entry into Canada if one is very motivated. But folks with DUI waltzing up to Whistler are in for a surprise.


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## bikesandguitars (Aug 9, 2010)

The picture, the beers, drinking in a parking lot, “treated like a career criminal” comment... I literally hate the term “white privilege” but that’s what is coming to mind for me when I read the OP. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Generally one beer. We lost a family member to a selfish fool behind the wheel as a reminder of why I try to not mess up. If I have more than one beer it is spread out over a while.


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

fc said:


> The other minor, bike-related detail is... you can't go to Whistler anymore from the US.
> 
> They will not let you in at the border.
> 
> Significant efforts can result in visa/pleas/permissions can be granted for entry into Canada if one is very motivated. But folks with DUI waltzing up to Whistler are in for a surprise.


This^
I live in Buffalo just a stones throw from the Canadian border. Many a person has been surprised (and embarrassed) when they are denied entry into Canada due to a DWI/DUI from decades ago.

and a far as the length of time for the negative consequences go, I know some consultants with government contracts and security clearances that will be pulled (in which case you may easily loose your job) if they are even charged with dwi/dui.

Worth the risk?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Just an FYI getting to a .08 is pretty much just a couple of sips with most alcohol drinks. Especially if there’s no food in your system. They made it this low to prevent the huge problem of under the influence driving. Get one DUI and you’ll learn quickly and DUI’s are a HUGE money grab for the state. Most of us love a good beer and some grub after a ride but it’s not worth it as you’ve found out from what your buddy is going through.


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## kevin267 (Mar 9, 2011)

It's super easy to just, not drink at all before driving. Saves money too. Used to do a 1 drink rule but I'm pretty small so I'm not so sure about it anymore. I feel like an out cast sometimes that I'm not obsessed with drinking all the time like a lot of people. Is a post ride beer the law to some people? I say no to adults giving the 'yeah c'mon have a beer what's wrong with you' acting like teenagers.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

fc said:


> The other minor, bike-related detail is... you can't go to Whistler anymore from the US.
> 
> They will not let you in at the border.
> 
> Significant efforts can result in visa/pleas/permissions can be granted for entry into Canada if one is very motivated. But folks with DUI waltzing up to Whistler are in for a surprise.


Here's what I know about the Canada thing from a neighbor who said half the passengers on a cruise from Seattle to Alaska couldn't get off the ship in BC, including him. From one to five years after the DUI you're a no go since DUI is a felony in Canada and they don't let felons in. Close to the ten year mark you can write them and pay a fine of under $500 and they find you rehabilitated. That's what I was told anyway.

I only drink after riding if I'm in a campground. I have five highways intertwined here in the mountains and they're heavily patrolled by CHP. I've heard it's one of their training grounds. I don't even drink a beer eating out if I'm driving. There's just too much on the line.


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## pctloper (Jan 3, 2016)

I an attest that even after almost 2 decades and expunging my record I still cannot get entry to Canada----write off any Whistler trip in this lifetime. I did hike across on the pacific crest trail with no issue and flew back with no issues---probably they were just glad to be rid of hiker trash.


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

Unless I'm staying in that spot for a while, i.e. camping, or eating a reasonable meal with the beer, I wait until I'm home and in the shower. 

It isn't very social, but it does save *a **** ton* of potential legal and career trouble - my work conditions are such that I could lose my job for a DUI conviction.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I almost never had a post-ride beer. I can't hold alcohol without feeling a bit tipsy. Most of the folks I ride with like the stronger/heavier beers. First, I do not care for the tastE of those and two, it affects me quickly.

On the rare ocassions I do have a beer, I am treated oddly -not quite mocking me, but I get the "gasp, YOU'RE drinking a beer?" comment.

If I start feeling the affects, I quit drinking. I'll pour it out rather than finish it.

I'm too old not to know better. First off, I hope I never ever get to the point where I 'think' I am fine to drive then injur somebody.
But, the fines and penalities are too great to even risk that as part of my life that it's worth it because the laws have gotten tighter. I think the laws should be tighter for exactly the reasons listed in this thread. Because if we can get away with it, we will. Making the law tight like has gotten stops some folks from drinking/driving (me for example). No way do I need that for one drink in an hour and still 'feel okay'.

As for the comment of the officer treating the guy like a criminal -
1) we weren't there to hear how the person was treated, it's hear-say from a person who was upset they got caught breaking the law.
2) he is/was a criminal in that moment. Hardened criminal or not the message was sent.

A coworker got a DUI many many years ago, I think he was under 30 at the time. It's not something I have forgotten, and I think a few othes remember/know of it too. The guy just turned 40 for reference. I don't want to be the person that people I know will come to think of me as the guy who drinks and drives. Because I don't, but if I do it once, then I AM that guy.

I think this is a good PSA, and perhaps a reminder for some that take for granted they get home safely each day, and/or get home without hurting others.
Truthfully I couldn't care less if you hit a light pole and damage your car but that light pole could be a person just as easily.

The older we become the less our eyes can process things, especially in the dark. Now we've been drinking and it's dark. Definitely two negatives stacked on top of each other.


For those responsbible, I thank you for actually being responsible.


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

And if you just can't do without an IPA after a ride, the Hoppy Trails Gu isn't bad if you like very thick, very flat, slightly sweet, and warm IPAs.


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## Stovebolt (Dec 7, 2018)

He chose to drink alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car. He is lucky a DWI is all he got. Every 51 minutes in America, someone is killed in a drunk driving crash. 

I love craft beer, but I don't drink and drive.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

bikesandguitars said:


> The picture, the beers, drinking in a parking lot, "treated like a career criminal" comment... I literally hate the term "white privilege" but that's what is coming to mind for me when I read the OP. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.


I could be wrong, but im pretty sure the OP is not white.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If I got a DUI or DWI, I'd lose my job. So, I don't drink after riding. Or at all, really. Whether it's in a parking lot or a local pub/eatery. I'd rather ride for 3 hours than ride for 2 and drink beers for an hour and a half.

But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

the_joe said:


> I could be wrong, but im pretty sure the OP is not white.


True.

I'd call it "social class privilege".

Drinking in a public parking lot on the tailgate of a $50,000 "Taco" at a trailhead in Santa Cruz is not something that some people could get away with, yet others do it regularly with no consequences.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

the_joe said:


> I could be wrong, but im pretty sure the OP is not white.


LOL
Like color of ones skin matters in anything.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Makes you wonder what he did on a major freeway to get pulled.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Darth Lefty said:


> Makes you wonder what he did on a major freeway to get pulled.


I thought he pulled over to take a leak...?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> LOL
> Like color of ones skin matters in anything.


What I came to post, or social status for that matter. There are no excuses anymore to drink and drive, regardless of the situation.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

I've had plenty of post-ride beers in the past. Like many folks, sometimes too many high-octane beers without any food. No more.

I think Norway does it right, .02%. It will never happen in the US due to the alcohol lobby but a low BAC limit has a profound effect on the way a society handles the car/alcohol combo.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

All I can say is that I've been exTREMEly lucky. I love 🍺.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Probably best not to think of IPAs as beer - 2 different animals when it comes to alcohol content.


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## hogfly (Mar 6, 2018)

The recent Outside had a pretty cool feature on "recovery" beers, some of which are no-alcohol and some of which are minimal alcohol. Athletic Brewing Company specailizes in no-alcohol "craft" beers. Another good one is the low ABV Dogfish Head Sea Quench Ale (it's a sour... more like a gose with the salty flavor), and they actually consulted with a dude from Gatorade when they made it... so it has electrolytes and such. It's funny, because I"ve often gone to that beer when I'm going to have a long day of drinking in the summer. I was clearly making the athlete's choice. Hah.


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## hogfly (Mar 6, 2018)

I also like hop-oriented kombucha (or even something as simple as Topo Chico) as a "social beverage."

I'm a big drinker, but I've really gotten into finding other "special" drinks to substitute for alcohol when the occasion demands it. Topo has been a savior for me as my "walk in the door from work, need to start dinner, and want to pull something cold out of the fridge" drink.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

for me it is very simple. if I have to drive, you do not drink. simple as that. 


I ride from the house all the time.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fc said:


> The other minor, bike-related detail is... you can't go to Whistler anymore from the US.
> 
> They will not let you in at the border.
> 
> Significant efforts can result in visa/pleas/permissions can be granted for entry into Canada if one is very motivated. But folks with DUI waltzing up to Whistler are in for a surprise.





Vader said:


> Here's what I know about the Canada thing from a neighbor who said half the passengers on a cruise from Seattle to Alaska couldn't get off the ship in BC, including him. From one to five years after the DUI you're a no go since DUI is a felony in Canada and they don't let felons in. Close to the ten year mark you can write them and pay a fine of under $500 and they find you rehabilitated. That's what I was told anyway.


I recently went across the boarder with a couple friends, one of which had 2 felony DWI convictions. Went right across no problem.

We all had passports, not sure if that matters though.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I also ride out my door, but wait until I get home to have beer or wine. I have a zero alcohol policy for myself before driving, so I'm always safe and never need to worry. I also save lots of money by not going to bars or drinking at restaurants.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Ok no drink and drving but non-alcoholic beer is nasty.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

fc said:


> The other minor, bike-related detail is... you can't go to Whistler anymore from the US.
> 
> They will not let you in at the border.
> 
> Significant efforts can result in visa/pleas/permissions can be granted for entry into Canada if one is very motivated. But folks with DUI waltzing up to Whistler are in for a surprise.


Whoa. How about if you're flying in?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> LOL
> Like color of ones skin matters in anything.


Says a white guy?

Utah just lowered their limit DUI limit to 0.05 so beware folks visiting Moab, Gooseberry, etc.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Inadmissibility to Canada.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

jcd46 said:


> Ok no drink and drving but non-alcoholic beer is nasty.


The Heineken 0.0 is pretty good. My favorite N/A so far.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

og-mtb said:


> I've had plenty of post-ride beers in the past. Like many folks, sometimes too many high-octane beers without any food. No more.
> 
> I think Norway does it right, .02%. It will never happen in the US due to the alcohol lobby but a low BAC limit has a profound effect on the way a society handles the car/alcohol combo.


Iceland has a zero limit and I've never seen a culture party that hard. I've been to several house parties and thought, "This is what I've been training my whole life for" and couldn't keep up, and I can but beer away.


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

I recently found a new alternative to the post ride beer. its call lagunitas hop water and its zero calories and zero alcohol sparkling water with hop extract. it tastes pretty damn close to an ipa and is so refreshing with no guilt and no danger


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

A couple years ago, I was down at a state beach where my friend is the camp host. I was walked back to his camp ground and found him talking to a state park officer. My friend is also retired LEO. They were talking about drunk driving and the state LEO was saying that there is zero tolerance and everyone will take a ride, even other LEO. Nobody is getting a pass.

We don't even ride our bikes to the bar across PCH, We stumble back over the train tracks.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Sounds like he needs a better lawyer. If he blew exactly .08 then he should have fought it (assuming .08 is the legal limit). There's a small uncertainty level with the test (LC-MS).


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## pctloper (Jan 3, 2016)

a friend flew in and was not allowed to leave the airport---I think flying is worse than driving as they check before you get there----driving there is some odds of getting in


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Train Wreck said:


> I thought he pulled over to take a leak...?


Correct. There was a hidden spot on the freeway interchange to pull in a small lot. He pulled in to take a leak and cop was hanging out there.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I have to be careful enough when I start driving after riding. I'm still into the feeling the centrifugal force around curves and going fast and the road back to the highway from the most popular trail system around me often has cops hanging out. Add in a couple of beers and it could be bad.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

It's all fun and games until you see the flashing lights in the rear view mirror. Been there, done that.

I'm a slow learner though, I don't make it a habit but I do enjoy a few beers with friends after a ride on occasion. Never feel impaired but I don't have a self tester.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> LOL
> Like color of ones skin matters in anything.


lol, good one!



Finch Platte said:


> All I can say is that I've been exTREMEly lucky. I love .


:thumbsup:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rox said:


> I recently found a new alternative to the post ride beer. its call lagunitas hop water and its zero calories and zero alcohol sparkling water with hop extract. it tastes pretty damn close to an ipa and is so refreshing with no guilt and no danger


This belongs with e-bikes.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

My dislike of beer has saved me tons of money and potential headaches over the years. As much as I mountain bike and as involved as I am in the local MTB community, most people are surprised to find I can't stand beer, especially in this town.

Around here the fine for open container at the trail head is $300, but that seems to deter very few. I ride from home most of the time, but I do sometimes wonder about the other drivers when I do drive home from a trail.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


^ 100% this. It's my biggest pet peeve in mountain biking and has been for the last 10 years or so. Really it's why I prefer to ride by myself the majority of the time anymore.

Also - drinking and driving is against the law, PERIOD. You take the chance and eventually the luck will run out. Is it really worth it?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Jayem said:


> This belongs with e-bikes.


Oh. My. Gawd.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

blaklabl said:


> Also - drinking and driving is against the law, PERIOD. You take the chance and eventually the luck will run out. Is it really worth it?


While that is true, our society practically encourages drinking and driving it and it's accepted.

Think of how many people are in a restaurant on any given night, then think about how many will have at least one drink and get in their car and drive home. Think about how we don't really have public transportation infrastructure in most places (sure, some inner city areas, but think about the entirety here). With bars and restaurants that all serve alcohol and the only viable means of transportation is by your own automobile, it's somewhat encouraged IMO. For many people, it's "automatic" to have a drink with dinner (not for me!).

If the only source of alcohol was from stores where you bought it in-package to take it home, then I wouldn't feel quite the same way, but since it's served in all these places...that you drive to...the behavior of drinking and driving is "accepted" by society to a certain extent IMO. Of course, then it would still show up at the trailheads...


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


This



blaklabl said:


> ^ 100% this. It's my biggest pet peeve in mountain biking and has been for the last 10 years or so. Really it's why I prefer to ride by myself the majority of the time anymore.


 and this...

I just don't get it. Just done a big ride, am knackered, the last thing I want is a beer.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mik_git said:


> I just don't get it. Just done a big ride, am knackered, the last thing I want is a beer.


And I don't get that. I don't always have a beer after a ride but I pretty much always _*want*_ one. So delicious and refreshing, pure nectar!

We're all individuals.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I think with rideshare companies, you DON'T have to drive if you go out for some drinks.


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## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Just an FYI getting to a .08 is pretty much just a couple of sips with most alcohol drinks. Especially if there's no food in your system. They made it this low to prevent the huge problem of under the influence driving. Get one DUI and you'll learn quickly and DUI's are a HUGE money grab for the state. Most of us love a good beer and some grub after a ride but it's not worth it as you've found out from what your buddy is going through.


Umm, no. It takes more than a couple of sips unless you weight about 75 pounds.

There's plenty of charts that will show you estimated BAC based on weight and a standard drink.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

AVL-MTB said:


> The Heineken 0.0 is pretty good. My favorite N/A so far.


I had read some reviews when searching for better or decent tasting light beer or n/a. Heineken came up on both as top choices.
I drink beer for taste and not chugging it because I'm thirsty nor do I want a 'buzz'.

ABV for sure-
Been getting more and more careful of the abv and just noting it as it relates. The preferred beers for me are the craft type.
I normally drink my beer slow and it often warms to just a bit cool or above room temp. 
Rides are a good time to chat and have a post-ride brew but I'm am cautious and consider myself a lightweight. I can get a one beer buzz if advanced beyond the slow sipping / enjoyment phase and down one a bit fast. Fast for me isn't probably what others consider fast either. I'm 165#, 5'11" and BMI at 23 or so. It's chancy and if I'm rushed to have time for a beer in that case, I'll skip it b/c too fast might get me feeling loopy. As others said, too much at risk.

* Two states now have the newer limit changes to .05.

I once managed some patient care / security issues for a few years and had a patient with a BAL of .485 who crashed his mtn bike riding in the woods or canyons. He was quite lucid , walking talking and ready to try escaping - lol.



Le Duke said:


> If I got a DUI or DWI, I'd lose my job. So, I don't drink after riding. Or at all, really. Whether it's in a parking lot or a local pub/eatery. I'd rather ride for 3 hours than ride for 2 and drink beers for an hour and a half.
> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


+ Those offenses are nothing to sneeze at for any and could cost many a job or at least a costly life - changing event.

Some of it may just be perception on the forums. People love to talk about their beer or partying. Over-representing the fun and glamour of life I a popular trend, even if by accident.  
I often talk about biking, send emails or post pics on fb of my bike or trails and rides. My friends or family interpret that within the context of other things I post or mention and then think I live on my bike much the same way my Michigan family think we get 6 foot blankets of snow every time news reports snow coming to the rocky mountains.

I'd think those spending 2 hours of 3 or even 2 of 5 drinking beer or guzzling in quantity whether bowling, riding moto dirt bikes, bicycles, playing poker or sitting on their veranda have incorporated it into everything they do.
Seen as more centered toward biking or mountain biking is probably just due to our focus and exposure on a given activity rather than fishing, hunting or weekend patio get-to-gethers.

I'm not out when things are really busy but in Colorado Springs, most of the riders I see are pretty seriously geared up and out moving about with a sense of purpose that seems beyond finding a parking lot to party in. 
I do have a beer around some biking activity. 
For me, it's just that subtle relaxing time to kick back and relax with a few like-minded riders afterward. In my case, it's one beer and the bike ride and plan is pretty much an entire experience. Mostly the camaraderie or fellowship. I'm not a solo inspired soul - 

With the group of friends associated, it's a meet up to ride for something in the 2 hour or plus range depending on the route and our schedules. Post-ride, rarely does anybody rush off, so we have a brew and time to chat about the ride, trails or whatever. Along the ride earlier, there usually isn't a lot of opportunity for chat or small talk. 
I'd say that amounts to 120 minutes of ride time, fun, challenge and fitness and 30 to 45 minutes of cool-down / fellowship.

Truly, there is nothing inherently better or more fun on these rides versus some other's with different people I ride with where we don't have a beer. 
Those as often as not, end up at a lunch or breakfast destination and are every bit the fun and adventure I look forward to. 
I know enough about the fellow beer enthusiasts (my ride friends) to say it's not beer we center our plans around, that's not the lure. Outdoors, grass stains on our Big Boy Pants ,,, all that stuff around biking, getting better at it or just pushing away some lazy tendencies is enough. 
I can also attest to many of our outings offering us a chance to try a new brew unfamiliar to us that just gives us another thing to contemplate or chat about.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

pctloper said:


> a friend flew in and was not allowed to leave the airport---I think flying is worse than driving as they check before you get there----driving there is some odds of getting in


Getting stopped going through Victoria on a cruise may be the worst.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Terrible luck for your friend! He pulled himself over!

I'll have a post-ride beer in the parking lot occasionally, but more than 1 makes me feel achey/crampy and hampers recovery. So DUI isn't a worry.



bikesandguitars said:


> The picture, the beers, drinking in a parking lot, "treated like a career criminal" comment... I literally hate the term "white privilege" but that's what is coming to mind for me when I read the OP. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.


In context this is super funny. FC isn't white, and lives in a place where white (and every other race) is a minority. Perception of race is pretty different from monochromatic colorado.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Personally for me, if I know I have to drive, I wont drink. Yes, I know thats boring but getting a DUI or worst, killing or injuring someone is just not worth it.

When I was younger and used to bar hop, I had many nights that I would slept in the backset of my Chevy Blazer in the parking lot. I never took the risk and think no one should. Making a stupid mistake that can result in a death or injury is something I cant feel sorry for the person doing it.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I'm gettin' older and rarely drink anymore. My preferred after ride drink is Skratch Labs recovery mix, it's amazing. 

In the past, I had after ride beers but almost never more than one, and I do still own a mini breathalyzer I got at Costco. It may not be extremely accurate but it is interesting.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Jayem said:


> While that is true, our society practically encourages drinking and driving it and it's accepted.


Several legislative sessions ago, a state legislator stood on the floor and raged about how our tightening alcohol control laws were destroying a Montana way of life. We're a citizen legislature, and he owns a bar in a tiny rural town. That made national news.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

skiahh said:


> Umm, no. It takes more than a couple of sips unless you weight about 75 pounds.
> 
> There's plenty of charts that will show you estimated BAC based on weight and a standard drink.


Umm no, you trust those charts? A couple of sips and you are on the edge of being over that low .08 level. A beer, a glass of wine, a shot or a mixed drink and you are over. A couple of sips is pretty much a drink, no? Besides most cops only need smell it on you and you are treated like a criminal. Out in the street taking all their tests. Questioned repeatedly, calling for a backup cop to come because the cop doesnt have a portable breathalyzer. Hauled in and given another breathalyzer at the station. Yes .08 is nothing and it doesn't take much to get there. And it doesn't even take for a cop to witness bad driving. Another citizen can call your plate in and the cops will be waiting on your street for you to arrive. Even the people serving the alcohol can get your name off your credit card and call it in to the cops and the cops will be on your street waiting for you to come home.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Even in the small mountain town I live in of 10,000, there's Lyft, Uber and three private ride options. At the other pad in Surprise, AZ, it cost six bucks to get a ride for a mile round trip for more beer.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Conspiracy much? There's a hidden app on your phone that constantly monitors your BAC through your breath and skin. It links directly to the closest police department based on your GPS.

Oh, don't forget the black helicopters ...



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Umm no, you trust those charts? A couple of sips and you are on the edge of being over that low .08 level. A beer, a glass of wine, a shot or a mixed drink and you are over. A couple of sips is pretty much a drink, no? Besides most cops only need smell it on you and you are treated like a criminal. Out in the street taking all their tests. Questioned repeatedly, calling for a backup cop to come because the cop doesnt have a portable breathalyzer. Hauled in and given another breathalyzer at the station. Yes .08 is nothing and it doesn't take much to get there. And it doesn't even take for a cop to witness bad driving. Another citizen can call your plate in and the cops will be waiting on your street for you to arrive. Even the people serving the alcohol can get your name off your credit card and call it in to the cops and the cops will be on your street waiting for you to come home.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

This original post is a little bit incomprehensible and somewhat free of facts.

Sounds like your "friend's" case hasn't been adjudicated yet, so not clear why all the assumptions and assertions about things that haven't yet happened.

While I appreciate that your friend's life has hit a speed bump, that's really all it is. People get DUIs when they make poor choices. He'll get over it.

2.5 strong beers (which means 4 or 5 beers if his reporting is like most people when asked how much they had to drink) at his weight on an empty stomach post-exercise would put him right around that .08 range.

If he's this shaken up over a DUI, he likely has no idea what a "career criminal" is treated like. That said, the average patrol cop or DUI/traffic cop has likely seen way more than their share of the death and carnage that drunk drivers create. Many of them have little sympathy in this regard.

CA's laws are different than AZ, so no comment there, except to say the in-car breathalyzer thing is common as is the officer's ability to suspend your driving privilege immediately IF (and generally only if) you refuse to take the required field sobriety tests that you agreed to when you signed to get your driver's license.

Anyway, your friend isn't quadriplegic and he didn't kill or injure anyone else, so this bump in the road will pass. I'm sure he's a nice guy and he made a mistake. It happens.

As others have said, I don't personally understand this correlation between riding and beer. I mean, I like beer as much as the next guy, but I can't remember ever having a beer in the parking lot after a ride. Just not something I'm interested in doing. I can wait until I get to the safety of my own house.



fc said:


> I started this same topic in a regional forum but wanted to bring this up here as well:
> 
> So I was at the local trail - club ride on Wednesday. A good friend said he was not drinking beer and I asked why. He said he got a post-ride DUI on Highway 85 on Dec 27. Two and half good beers for his 170lb body got him to .08 blood/alcohol level.
> 
> ...


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Umm no, you trust those charts? A couple of sips and you are on the edge of being over that low .08 level. A beer, a glass of wine, a shot or a mixed drink and you are over. A couple of sips is pretty much a drink, no?


It's the little clues that give up the ruse. Dirtjunkie is an elf. Like, keebler, not legolas.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Le Duke said:


> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


It's the outdoor lifestyle we've been sold. Every outdoor activity is followed with a party. We're blowing off steam and in some cases seeing friends we haven't seen in a while and catching up over several beers. Hell, there's even low octane "session" beers out now. When I was a kid camping on the Kern River in the 70's, all the white water rafters were drunk as eff.

I first found MTBR by a full page ad in a 1997 edition of Dirt Rag. It featured a handfull of friends on a deck drinking beer. I've been here ever since.

Having said that, I don't drink and ride, surf or snowboard, but once the keys are hung up it's party time.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

I can't remember the last time I had a beer at the trail head after a ride.

May be the weed, IDK.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Blatant said:


> Conspiracy much? There's a hidden app on your phone that constantly monitors your BAC through your breath and skin. It links directly to the closest police department based on your GPS.
> 
> Oh, don't forget the black helicopters ...


I don't know where you get off saying that but there's one in every crowd. I'm one of the ones who's the furthest away from believing in any conspiracy theories on any subject. But assume away like you already did if it makes you feel better.


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## Kolchak (May 15, 2017)

What if you are involved in an accident on the way home but still below the limit? If someone claims injury and that it's your fault you could wind up spending a lot of money defending yourself for a long time over a beer. It's just not worth it anymore. People sue if they think they have any chance of getting money. With a good lawyer it doesn't matter who's fault it is because they get paid either way so it's in their best interest to keep the case going, and if you had alcohol in your system you have to work twice as hard to defend yourself.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Man, you guys are making me feel like a full blown alcoholic. Sometimes I go for a good, hard ride just because it makes my nightly beer taste so much better. It's not nearly as enjoyable otherwise.


I do wait until I'm home and showered though. Usually.

Now I'm thirsty, going for a ride


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

fc said:


> Thoughts? You have a post-ride beer at the parking lot, brewery or not at all?


Assuming you're drinking responsibly: Wash your mouth out and your face with soap before driving. Keep it with the lane. Don't ever admit to drinking at all and hire a lawyer.

The career drunks that get a dozen DUI and crash and kill people are still on the road. Society has given up on controlling them. There's no reason to be a victim of the police state because the police state has given up on controlling the real problem criminals.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

I ride out the front door and eat food when I get home. When I was younger I almost got creamed riding a vintage bmx on the el camino, with a bottle and a half of Chuck Shaw in me. Before that, I injured my back snowboarding on joints and jungle juice. I finally learned and now only take in caffeine and ginseng.

Alcohol is physically addictive, exertion is gonna trigger that need. Food is far far better for recovery.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

Schulze said:


> There's no reason to be a victim of the police state because the police state has given up on controlling the real problem criminals.


This is nonsense.

Folks who decide to drive after drinking too much are not any type of victim, let alone the victim of a "police state."


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

og-mtb said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> Folks who decide to drive after drinking too much are not any type of victim, let alone the victim of a "police state."


A family member of mine was caught driving drunk. It cost him a lot of money and years of lost money due to inability to get his job back.

Although sad, he never drank again...

I very much dislike drunk drivers. 2.5 IPAs is definitely too much to drive. He was treated like a criminal? That's because he was over the limit. Too many deaths caused by drunk drivers. So yeah, he was not treated with respect. He got what he deserved.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Man, you guys are making me feel like a full blown alcoholic. Sometimes I go for a good, hard ride just because it makes my nightly beer taste so much better. It's not nearly as enjoyable otherwise.
> 
> I do wait until I'm home and showered though. Usually.
> 
> Now I'm thirsty, going for a ride


Yeah, a lot of feedback seems to run the gamut of "I don't ever drink alcohol", 
"no, never nothing at all - until I get home" or the idea that anything else is over-consumption and shouldn't be related to biking. 
Go out and toss a Frisbee around on a warm day, play recreational baseball or work in the yard and a frosty beverage is a fine reward though ! 

When someone likes beer as much as the next guy but would never consider packing a brew or a few to share with post ride buddies when by design, the post ride (mine) is a usual kick back, relax and chat for a bit...... that's a fine choice but sometimes the next guy is a 1 beer a day guy who has decided to top off the day or the ride with a beer and post ride conversation. 
When I'm thirsty, I'll chug water and I stay well hydrated on the bike. When I want to enjoy a beer, I'm not dying of thirst- I relax and take time to appreciate a good one. Sometimes it's a wrap up at a coffee shop with pastries.
This makes a bike ride less a chore or fitness detail and more a fun outing and total experience.

I'm not sure how less safe I am then at home with my one beer menu but I know abv, time and food on board are all things to consider. If not heads up about being safe and responsible, waiting til later or at home is a perfect choice and I applaud those that make that distinction.

Not all are rides or riders are as leisurely, nor go out for rides in part for social activity or have the time to relax and chat after a ride so there are plenty of reasons anyone may not pack a brew or have one post ride even when they do like beer as much as the next guy.

:thumbsup:


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Always did bother me how people would drink beers post-ride, then drive. Just knew that I'd face the wrath of many if I spoke too strongly about it. 

I just figure that when people are left to make their own choices, all there is to stop them from making questionable decisions is their own conscious/morals*, and conformity bias. I'm just glad that I socialize with people who don't "hammer down the nail that sticks out" (proverb about how peers pressure others into conformity), and respects my individual choice to not participate in such a self-reward cultural trend. I just try to avoid pushing my principles onto others, since I recognize society has gone from greasing the wheel that squeaks, to outright replacing the wheel and disposing of the old one (and burning it if makes them angry enough, see Galileo vs the Church), and that non-conformity invites criticism.

Just gotta find that fine balance that can be tolerated...

* the way I see what happened in the above DUI example, is that someone essentially admitted that their moral integrity was defeated by their self-righteousness. Their self-righteousness essentially re-drew the line which should not be crossed, in regards to judging what's considered okay and what's considered bad/wrong, to be more lenient. When their mind's idea of that line didn't match with society's and they got punished for it, it served as a reality check, and this story was made to warn others to not stretch their internal justifications that skirt punishment...


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I have a few friends who seem like they cant wait to get the ride over so they can start drinking. I dont ride with them often but I do enjoy the hang with them occasionally. Personally, Im there for the ride and often ride alone or with one or two like minded folks. Food and a couple cold ones after the ride happens from time to time but usually it's a few fist bumps and home for a shower.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

jeffw-13 said:


> I have a few friends who seem like they cant wait to get the ride over so they can start drinking. I dont ride with them often but I do enjoy the hang with them occasionally. Personally, Im there for the ride and often ride alone or with one or two like minded folks. Food and a couple cold ones after the ride happens from time to time but usually it's a few fist bumps and home for a shower.


A few post ride brewskis with the boys every now and then is harmless. However, showering with them is something I've stopped doing. I miss it, but promised my girlfriend to spend more time with her.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Scott O said:


> A few post ride brewskis with the boys every now and then is harmless. However, showering with them is something I've stopped doing. I miss it, but promised my girlfriend to spend more time with her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ha! Nice one.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Right? Whenever I hear someone say "police state" I think it's likely a sovereign citizen whacko or someone whose brain got fried by too much LSD and the Dead Kennedys in the '80s.

You should travel to an actual police state for some perspective. Start in Singapore since you're less likely to get murdered.



og-mtb said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> Folks who decide to drive after drinking too much are not any type of victim, let alone the victim of a "police state."


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

Interesting thread.

First off, you BAC means little if you flunked your field sobriety tests. People who are a .08 can range between no noticeable intoxication to slurred speech and trouble standing up. People are not arrested on what they blow in the machine, they are arrested for passing or failing their field sobriety tests. The breathalyzer just confirms what the arresting officer already knows, he/she has already made the decision to arrest or not arrest based upon your test scores.

A DUI arrest is a choice made by the individual. The OP sounds like the arrest ruined his friends life, while the friend was the one who made the choice and got caught. He's lucky he didn't ruin anyone else's (or run over another cyclist, getting hit by a drunk driver is a huge concern of mine while riding my gravel bike), just because you are at or below the legal limit does not mean you are not feeling the affects of alcohol in your system.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

29 people a day die from DUI related accidents. Either they die, or kill someone. Its like a pretty severe mass shooting, but every single day. 

I'll flat out own up to it. I cant drink just one beer. Ill drink all the beers. I would take very serious notice of yourself if you cant have just one beer after a ride. I cant count the amount of times ive had 3 or 4 post ride IPA's and hopped straight in my car! Thats absolutely DUI territory. 

I dont drink anymore since I really cant do it responsibly. The fact is that millions of you guys can drink a beer after a ride and drive home perfectly fine and under the limit. Great. I cant. The guy in the OP's story couldnt either. If you cant too, Its kinda nice being able to learn someone elses lesson instead of having a DUI ruin your life too. 

If you cant have just one, Its seriously time to stop drinking in the parking lot.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

In Az it is advised to decline the FST but submit to the breath, blood or urine sample. The field test never prove you sober but can provide evidence to impairment. The law states you can be charged if you are proven to be impaired to any degree.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I am lucky, virtually none of my MTB riding group drinks. One tokes a little too much, but no drinking. I have no interest in it. I used to drink on occasion, mostly at home with my ex. But when she admitted to being an alcoholic and sobered up, I quit drinking too and haven't had one since (even though we are divorced).

The drinking culture thing is a choice. You choose to be in that culture. I chose not to be. Alcohol does absolutely nothing positive for me, and in my experience, nothing positive for anyone else either.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> Alcohol does absolutely nothing positive for me, and in my experience, nothing positive for anyone else either.


You don't know everyone.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> You don't know everyone.


No one does, but we do have statistics. I think if you change his comment to "nothing positive for most people", its pretty fair, no?

Just statistically, drinking is crazy bad for society. My hats off to all you guys who have a couple beers every now and then and never have a problem... but I sure see a lot of swerving drivers out every single Saturday night literally anywhere I go. Maybe they're screwing it up for the responsible people, but either way.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> No one does, but we do have statistics. I think if you change his comment to "nothing positive for most people", its pretty fair, no?


That's probably a lot more fair. I just think demonizing people who get together and have a beer or two after a ride now and then is a little over the top. I'm not talking about getting drunk, or alcoholism, but a few beers with good friends can be an enjoyable occasion (for some) and hurts no one.

ymmv


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

No joke, after reading this thread yesterday, I was pedaling home and what did I see?

One of the guys I saw drinking in the parking lot after his ride doing a field sobriety test.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Le Duke said:


> No joke, after reading this thread yesterday, I was pedaling home and what did I see?
> 
> One of the guys I saw drinking in the parking lot after his ride doing a field sobriety test.


I guess he didn't see this thread.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> No joke, after reading this thread yesterday, I was pedaling home and what did I see?
> 
> One of the guys I saw drinking in the parking lot after his ride doing a field sobriety test.


I'd say it's default 'we' get the attention we deserve- (how I feel about most any traffic related LEO encounter I've had) and this guy was either seen drinking or his driving ablility was a clue.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

bachman1961 said:


> I'd say it's default 'we' get the attention we deserve- (how I feel about most any traffic related LEO encounter I've had) and this guy was either seen drinking or his driving ablility wa a clue.


Yeah.

For those who know the area, it was the southern parking area at Horsetooth in Fort Collins where the Blue Sky trail meets the Inlet Bay trail. I also saw multiple groups of people at the Inlet Bay parking area who were sitting in plain view of the road, drinking a beer.

You'd think people would try to be a bit less obvious. First big weekend of the year at a place with a huge amount of tourist traffic (every campsite at Horsetooth was full).


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Le Duke said:


> No joke, after reading this thread yesterday, I was pedaling home and what did I see?
> 
> One of the guys I saw drinking in the parking lot after his ride doing a field sobriety test.


And I bet someone saw them and called his plate in.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Le Duke said:


> Yeah.
> 
> For those who know the area, it was the southern parking area at Horsetooth in Fort Collins where the Blue Sky trail meets the Inlet Bay trail. I also saw multiple groups of people at the Inlet Bay parking area who were sitting in plain view of the road, drinking a beer.
> 
> You'd think people would try to be a bit less obvious. First big weekend of the year at a place with a huge amount of tourist traffic (every campsite at Horsetooth was full).


And I know the area. Just stupidity with so many out and about doing in plain sight. All it takes is someone calling your plate in and cops are all over it.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's probably a lot more fair. I just think demonizing people who get together and have a beer or two after a ride now and then is a little over the top. I'm not talking about getting drunk, or alcoholism, but a few beers with good friends can be an enjoyable occasion (for some) and hurts no one.
> 
> ymmv


I'm not demonizing. I just stated that it does nothing positive. There is no benefit for your health, finances, If you feel you need a beer to socialize, that's a problem. You don't need one or two just to hang out. Maybe you like to drink beer like some people like to drink a shake? That's fine. But you can't honestly make the argument that drinking a chocolate shake has any positives can you? If you enjoy drinking them, fine. Luckily for me, I can't stand the taste of beer. My idea of drinking is getting totally smashed, I don't see the point of drinking alcohol if not to get fvcked up.

I don't demonize people who drink, I just point out the flaws in their justifications. If you want to be demonized, go talk to a recovering alcoholic...those guys will really demonize you.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> But you can't honestly make the argument that drinking a chocolate shake has any positives can you?.


Honestly, chocolate shakes taste positively delicious.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> I'm not demonizing. I just stated that it does nothing positive. There is no benefit for your health, finances, If you feel you need a beer to socialize, that's a problem. You don't need one or two just to hang out. Maybe you like to drink beer like some people like to drink a shake? That's fine. But you can't honestly make the argument that drinking a chocolate shake has any positives can you? If you enjoy drinking them, fine. Luckily for me, I can't stand the taste of beer. My idea of drinking is getting totally smashed, I don't see the point of drinking alcohol if not to get fvcked up.
> 
> I don't demonize people who drink, I just point out the flaws in their justifications. If you want to be demonized, go talk to a recovering alcoholic...those guys will really demonize you.


Good Lord, you must be flawless.

JK, if your idea of drinking is getting totally smashed and you can't imagine that drinking a chocolate milkshake can be enjoyable, and therefore a positive experience then I just don't know what to say.

I'm not attempting to justify anything, and I don't "need" beer to socialize any more I need guacamole to enjoy a burrito. Sometimes it's nice though.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> My idea of drinking is getting totally smashed, I don't see the point of drinking alcohol if not to get fvcked up.


I love beer (see the Beer & Bikes thread), but this thinking is just stupid, lm really lost with this comment.

I typed a lot and deleted it, totally not worth the time.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

There's the idiom, "you can lead a hose to water, but you can't make it drink."

In this case, it means you can show people who drink beer and other alcoholic drinks all sorts of reasons for them to stop doing so, but you can't make them stop.

Ask a beer drinker, "true or false: alcohol is addictive."

That word, addictive, makes people put up their defenses, since it's related to a failure of a system that has done so much wrong about addressing addiction. It would not surprise me if a significant number said false, that they personally don't have a problem with alcohol, and/or go as far as saying there's nothing wrong with an occasional drink.

My only real hope is that people don't have a reason to start drinking in the first place. That and I guess whatever plan higher ups got to curb fentanyl abuse, may be a breakthrough in policy/procedure to address other kinds of addiction. While they're at it, can maybe find a better fix to stupidity...


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## Kolchak (May 15, 2017)

ninjichor said:


> There's the idiom, "you can lead a hose to water, but you can't make it drink."
> 
> In this case, it means ...


Say what?!


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## TrailGoat (Sep 6, 2016)

never. I don't like beer that much, and it is probably one of the worst things to have after hard exercise. I have no idea how it became so central to the MTB community. some of the guys I ride with don't understand the idea of riding without drinking. seems dumb. I don't know many other athlete groups that drink immediately after exercise.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> There's the idiom, "you can lead a hose to water, but you can't make it drink."
> 
> In this case, it means you can show people who drink beer and other alcoholic drinks all sorts of reasons for them to stop doing so, but you can't make them stop.
> 
> ...


My but this thread is depressing, think I'll drink a 12-pack and get raging drunk. My alcohol addiction is pretty horrible but my food addiction is even worse.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

TrailGoat said:


> I don't know many other athlete groups that drink immediately after exercise.


You should see the skiing and snowboarding communities: Bloody Mary to start the day, beer on the chairlift, bong hit at lunch, then by mid afternoon it's apres time.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> You should see the skiing and snowboarding communities: Bloody Mary to start the day, beer on the chairlift, bong hit at lunch, then by mid afternoon it's apres time.


I've see it for 40 plus years of skiing. And you're right it's one big party. Most stay the night in a condo or lodge but there are plenty that get smashed over an 8 hour day then drive the 3 hours home. Drunk plus huge physical exertion over that length of time makes for a bad combo driving for hours home. Half of which is on mountainous roads. Definitely way more of a party scene than spending 1/2 an hour post ride mtbing with a beer or two.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I've see it for 40 plus years of skiing. And you're right it's one big party. Most stay the night in a condo or lodge but there are plenty that get smashed over an 8 hour day then drive the 3 hours home. Drunk plus huge physical exertion over that length of time makes for a bad combo driving for hours home. Half of which is on mountainous roads. Definitely way more of a party scene than spending 1/2 an hour post ride mtbing with a beer or two.


It can make for some hazardous situations while on the hill too.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nat said:


> It can make for some hazardous situations while on the hill too.


No doubt, liquid courage and bad decision making.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> 29 people a day die from DUI related accidents. Either they die, or kill someone. Its like a pretty severe mass shooting, but every single day.
> 
> I'll flat out own up to it. I cant drink just one beer. Ill drink all the beers. I would take very serious notice of yourself if you cant have just one beer after a ride. I cant count the amount of times ive had 3 or 4 post ride IPA's and hopped straight in my car! Thats absolutely DUI territory.
> 
> ...


^ My story as well, and I appreciate this post.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Good Lord, you must be flawless.


I'm pretty good, humble too :lol:

I didn't say a milkshake isn't enjoyable, but I don't need one after my riding while chatting with my friends. If you like the drink, fine (which I already put in that clause to begin with). But I also said that neither actually does anything positive, I don't need a shake to feel good. It doesn't do anything positive in my life, except maybe a very short pleasure response. But I have a problem with eating too much junk for that same reason, short term pleasure for no benefit.



cmg said:


> I love beer (see the Beer & Bikes thread), but this thinking is just stupid, lm really lost with this comment.


Because my idea of drinking alcohol is to feel the full effects of alcohol? Why is that more stupid than drinking alcohol to only kinda feel the effects? I stated that I don't like beer. Is it socially acceptable to sip tequila (I kinda like the flavor of that)? I think the fact that you got defensive about me not enjoying beer shows more the issue on your side, not mine. *I* don't like beer, so *I* don't drink it. But let me point out a couple of things you are advertising, while being defensive about your drinking:



cmg said:


> passed out in your garden





cmg said:


> always mad and usually drunk......


I understand JB's beer after a ride, I know a lot of people that do that. I don't do it because I don't like the flavor, and I'm not interested in getting intoxicated.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

ninjichor said:


> In this case, it means you can show people who drink beer and other alcoholic drinks all sorts of reasons for them to stop doing so, but you can't make them stop.
> 
> Ask a beer drinker, "true or false: alcohol is addictive."
> 
> That word, addictive, makes people put up their defenses, since it's related to a failure of a system that has done so much wrong about addressing addiction. It would not surprise me if a significant number said false, that they personally don't have a problem with alcohol, and/or go as far as saying there's nothing wrong with an occasional drink.


I don't get it,, are you saying my one beer a day (an average that could be 8 -9 in a busy week or 4 or 5 in another as sipped , enjoyed for flavor not effect and purposefully not consumed in short order to get a buzz fits your idea of drinking problem, an addict or an alcoholic ?

Aren't you the same person that said you hang around folks you are not comfortable with because (you believe) they drink too much to share the roads safety ?



ninjichor; said:


> Always did bother me how people would drink beers post-ride, then drive. Just knew that I'd face the wrath of many if I spoke too strongly about it.
> 
> I just figure that when people are left to make their own choices, all there is to stop them from making questionable decisions is their own conscious/morals*, and conformity bias. I'm just glad that I socialize with people who don't "hammer down the nail that sticks out" (proverb about how peers pressure others into conformity), and respects my individual choice to not participate


I hike and bike with guys who are fun to get out with and good friends. Some have a beer , some don't. Iced coffee , soda and water are all popular choices. No judgement or pressure, we were there to meet for the Hike or the Bike Ride. :thumbsup: 
The only thing ever mentioned is an offer of beverage by those that bring or have extra. 
There are times we don't plan for a cool down chat afterward or have time for it. It's all play it by ear and no pressure.

Also, this :




> _I dont drink anymore since I really cant do it responsibly. The fact is that millions of you guys can drink a beer after a ride and drive home perfectly fine and under the limit. Great. I cant. The guy in the OP's story couldnt either. If you cant too, *
> 
> Its kinda nice being able to learn someone elses lesson
> 
> *instead of having a DUI ruin your life too. _


_

_Amen. 
Learn from experience - Someone Else's !!  ​


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> blah blah blah


yeah you got me, profiles & sigs l made when I joined, but life has changed for me drastically, and since l havent used a computer to view MTBR in a long long time l dont see them, l use Tapatalk, either way maybe you should view my posts to see how "passed out" and "drunk" l am 

Whereas you stated when you drink you do it to excess, because thats the "point"

I also didnt put you down for not liking beer (that would also be known as homophobic ), you not liking beer is irrelevant to me, its better you dont like it cause it means more for me

Have fun with my post, but know this: l dont g.a.f and would ride with you anyday (might just limit the alcohol after the ride)


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## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> If I got a DUI or DWI, I'd lose my job. So, I don't drink after riding. Or at all, really. Whether it's in a parking lot or a local pub/eatery. I'd rather ride for 3 hours than ride for 2 and drink beers for an hour and a half.
> 
> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".





mik_git said:


> This
> 
> and this...
> 
> I just don't get it. Just done a big ride, am knackered, the last thing I want is a beer.


I noticed this drinking tied in with an activity too. In golf, or softball, or bowling.
I'm not knocking alcohol consumption, but more on the insistence on performing an activity impaired.

It's more semantics really, one should say, "I'm going out drinking with my friends, but we might toss a ball around and run some bases too" or "going out drinking, might roll a ball down to knock some pins over"

I get that the OP's situation was more of a post workout celebratory drink. Unfortunately, driving home was still on the agenda.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> I didn't say a milkshake isn't enjoyable





Sidewalk said:


> _But you can't honestly make the argument that drinking a chocolate shake has any positives can you?_


On my planet, a milkshake that is enjoyable is something that is considered to be positive.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

TrailGoat said:


> I don't know many other athlete groups that drink immediately after exercise.


Ummm. Bowling, golf (don't know if either of those count as athletic), every adult soccer league I have played in, ultimate frisbee, in my experience runners.



Sidewalk said:


> in my experience, nothing positive for anyone else either.





Sidewalk said:


> My idea of drinking is getting totally smashed, I don't see the point of drinking alcohol if not to get fvcked up.


Maybe the reason that you see nothing positive in drinking is cause you don't see a point of drinking if not to get fvcked up....

Granted alcohol doesn't really have positive health affects (although supposedly some red wine is good for you) but at the same time I think there is something to be said for having a little treat for yourself every now whether it is alcohol or a milkshake. There are much worse things to do to your body that many people do daily.

I personally enjoy craft beers and I find that they bring joy to my life. I like trying new ones and savoring an old favorite. That being said I only have one unless I am going to be somewhere for a long time.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

og-mtb said:


> On my planet, a milkshake that is enjoyable is something that is considered to be positive.


Mine too. Also chocolate milkshakes are considered by many as a great recovery drink, so there's that too.

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20100604/chocolate-milk-refuels-muscles-after-workout


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I don't drink at the trail heads. I do take an oil can with me on my favorite trail that is 7 miles up hill and then 9 miles downhill. I crack it at the top of the climb to reward myself. 

I ride from my house most of the time so there are very few trail heads involved in the sport for me.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

There's beer drinking, and then there's what you decide to be before it. The pre-drinking activity is kinda like foreplay in that it enhances the eventual beer consumption. One pre-beer activity I've tried is looking at the clock and declaring, "It's after noon somewhere." The subsequent imbibing was not very gratifying. Drinking while sitting on the couch watching professional team sports wasn't much better. Eventually I came to realize, as I think many of us here have, that the best lead-up to a couple of beers is a good bout of strenuous physical activity, with friends or in a group, preferably outdoors, and especially with a healthy dose of eustress. There are quite a few activities that qualify, and of course, mtbing is one of the best.

This is somewhat OT, as the OP is about post beer drinking activities (i.e. driving) and the decisions and consequences surrounding that.


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

I used to drink frequently, but really have never imbibed after a ride. Don’t know why, but none of my riding partners drank post ride, either. 

Weird, maybe trail head beers isn’t a Massachusetts thing. 

These days post ride drinks consist of leftover coffee and Gatorade. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ravewoofer said:


> I used to drink frequently, but really have never imbibed after a ride. Don't know why, but none of my riding partners drank post ride, either.
> 
> Weird, maybe trail head beers isn't a Massachusetts thing.
> 
> ...


I think with the onset of craft beer in the last decade the areas with a lot of breweries enhance the amount of mountain bikers who connect the two together. Look at the OP's friend. They are from Northern California, a Mecca for craft beer. My area of Northern Colorado is as well.


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## westernmtb (Dec 19, 2018)

fc said:


> I started this same topic in a regional forum but wanted to bring this up here as well:
> 
> So I was at the local trail - club ride on Wednesday. A good friend said he was not drinking beer and I asked why. He said he got a post-ride DUI on Highway 85 on Dec 27. Two and half good beers for his 170lb body got him to .08 blood/alcohol level.
> 
> ...


You're not so subtly trying to paint this person as a "victim" of some sort of Orwellian police state witch hunt. It's not. He chose to drink and drive. Now he's facing the consequences. It's just that simple.

I see the same types of posts with regards to ticketing on the UCSC trails and elsewhere.

Many posters believe they are above the law. They are not.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ravewoofer said:


> Weird, maybe trail head beers isn't a Massachusetts thing.


Not much of a thing where I'm at either, I generally go to a proper facility. Generally that's home for me but sometimes a restaurant/bar.

Gatorade? Now that stuff will kill you


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

And let's not forget the drinking that goes on at the golf courses.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And let's not forget the drinking that goes on at the golf courses.


ever been to a Darts tournament?


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

cmg said:


> ever been to a Darts tournament?


Aiming fluid


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cmg said:


> ever been to a Darts tournament?


Lol
Yes, I stood way in the back behind the contestants.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Closed for review


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

AVL-MTB said:


> Closed for review


I went through and removed all the off-topic posts by OG and DJ. Seriously, both of you... knock it off. you both drug this conversation way off-topic for no reason.

I am re-opening this thread.

My Tuesday group meets at my house and we ride to the trail head, do our ride and end back at my place. We then spend a few hours sharing some brews and snacks. I have some very small mason jar looking mugs, like 3-4oz tops per fill. We generally have a few bombers or a few 12oz cans and share them using the tiny glasses. This helps the group to keep better track of how much they are drinking. I trust them to know what their own limits are before they get in a vehicle and go home. In the 10 years I have been doing that no one has had a DUI or anything close. Perhaps the small tasting glasses help curb over consumption?

It is a tricky thing because every person is different. I am 217lbs right now and it takes more for me to feel the effects than others who are much lighter in weight than me. Everyone in my group is an adult and has to make their own choices.

Also to think the police don't break the same laws they enforce is foolish. My ex-brother in law showed up at my house for the first family dinner my newlywed wife and I held. He IS a Bakersfield PD Officer. He brought a 6 pack with him, Drank half of it and was bummed I did not have more beer for him in the house(I was 19 years old), so he asked me to go with him to the store to get more. I was young and wanted to get to know him, this was really my first time hanging out with him. He brought his 4th beer with him and put it in the cup holder of his truck and drank it on the way to the store. It was a real eye-opener to me. Turns out that was a very good representation of the type of human being he was, so glad my sister-in-law divorced him. I can't stand that guy, he eventually was promoted to a Detective and is still serving on the force. I doubt anything has changed.

I am not sure I would engage in a habit of drinking at the trail-head.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Up until recently, I frequently had one beer after the ride with whomever I rode with, if they wanted, then went home. Never more than one. 

But my living situation changed a couple months ago, and I have stopped even the one beer thing. I wait to get home if I am going to have a beer. 

Many would say even one beer is too much before getting behind the wheel, and I would not argue the point with them. The statistics related to alcohol related fatalities and injuries are too much to ignore.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Thanks, K. I just got in the house.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I’d like to plead the fifth on who took this thread way off topic but I can’t. I would hope you looked deep and saw how it went off topic and who kept instigating it to continue.

I’ve never been one to drink post ride at the trailhead, I’ve seen plenty do it. I have on occasion met up with fellow riders at a restaurant for some grub an a brew or two. Not a wise choice and after having friends get DUI’s and seeing what they’ve been put through it’s something I try not to do. I’ll stop and meet up for some food but the alcohol can wait until I get home.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I’ll let you guys in on a little secret; I actually drink far less than I let on here.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2019)

Curveball said:


> I'll let you guys in on a little secret; I actually drink far less than I let on here.


I'll let you in on a little secret...I drink more than I let on. You guys sound like lightweights...especially Klurejr


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Curveball said:


> I'll let you guys in on a little secret; I actually drink far less than I let on here.


lol ,,, No doubt many of our posts or adventures we write about take on a bit more interest and fun when we can be a bit boastful about details. 

Also of note; 
One of the 'exchanges' here on this thread was a sort of literal interpretation of one's signature line. Many of the sigs are just plain funny or somewhat baiting but I think that commentary was in jest. 

*Klurejr-* Good real-world example of how to do up a get together with beers or whatever and be smart about it. After all, there are simply no guarantees about anything.

*DJ -* If time were not a constraint, I like the idea of a burger and a beer after riding. 
-No worry of being seen in the lot having a post ride beer
-Beer goes well with almost any food I eat, I've worked up an appetite and never ride on a full stomach anyways and lastly, having food on the tummy with a beer is a better scenario. I'm truly a lightweight, know it and account for it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Idea: Pack two beers in the Camelbak as well as all your riding buddies can pack theirs. Stop a mile before the trailhead and hike-A-bike off trail out of sight and have a party where no other hiker or rider will see you call the cops. Or just don’t drink after riding.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

ninjichor said:


> There's the idiom, "you can lead a hose to water, but you can't make it drink."
> 
> In this case, it means you can show people who drink beer and other alcoholic drinks all sorts of reasons for them to stop doing so, but you can't make them stop.
> 
> ...


This just sounds like what you hear in AA, everyone is an alcoholic that drinks, anything, anytime. Just because you have a problem does not mean we all do. It is about making you put up your defenses and blame everyone for your failures. We that drink a few beers a week or after a ride are not the problem, you are.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> If I got a DUI or DWI, I'd lose my job. So, I don't drink after riding. Or at all, really. Whether it's in a parking lot or a local pub/eatery. I'd rather ride for 3 hours than ride for 2 and drink beers for an hour and a half.
> 
> But, I also don't understand the connection that some people have between riding a bicycle and consuming alcohol in general. Some of the threads on this forum, or some of the regional sub-forums, make me think that there are some people that can't make it through a ride, from leaving their house to getting back home, without a couple of drinks in them. The two have no connection to me. I don't "get it".


If I get a DUI I'd have to go into a program for "impaired physicians" and probably have my license to prescribe or order controlled substances suspended for the duration.

I have also seen many of the more dire consequences of impaired driving and my sympathy is modulated somewhat. Yeah, 0.08 is not a huge amount of alcohol and it's a long way from the guy I saw a few months ago driving with a BAC of 0.45.

To be fair I had my last alcoholic drink in 1988.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Kolchak said:


> What if you are involved in an accident on the way home but still below the limit? If someone claims injury and that it's your fault you could wind up spending a lot of money defending yourself for a long time over a beer. It's just not worth it anymore. People sue if they think they have any chance of getting money. With a good lawyer it doesn't matter who's fault it is because they get paid either way so it's in their best interest to keep the case going, and if you had alcohol in your system you have to work twice as hard to defend yourself.


This is so true.

My post-ride drink is chocolate milk. Occasionally an iced-coffee.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

I don't mean this in a flippant way, I think there is something to it.

I'm starting to think the thing I'm missing is a lack of understanding like the flip side of those in AA. I've heard time and time again and I DO believe it, alcoholics say you can't understand it unless you've been there or went through it. ie; It's not one drink or a few beers or glasses of wine, there is just no stopping or wanting to quit, drink til it's gone or consumer is passed out.

It's apparent that for some, (not specific to anyone or group or AA) it may be incomprehensible to think of someone having a beer or a drink for the pure simplicity of flavor and enjoyment in that the love or quest for alcohol or a buzz just simply isn't there. 
Alcohol as part and parcel / ingedients has proven to me it's flavor benefit by a simple blind taste test of 6% abv verses the 3.5 with something as slim in flavoring as a Bud Light Platinum. 

I'll take a guess a 'foodie' takes gormet to a level of enjoyment and some prefer quality cigars or wines in the same way. That mental vacation where you just want to savor the moments and enjoy something premium. Out in nature under a bright or dark blue sky with a slight breeze and time for your body to rest ? Sure why not. Food and bev always tastes better outside.

The fact that I can enjoy a beer I like in that way it's safe and not harming me in a health or medical way (that I know of) is good enough. 
My bike ride isn't better, more fun or in need of a post ride beer. That enjoyment stands on it's own and needs no connection. This is why I belive everyone else can (and hopefully does) enjoy their bike rides or the entire experience just as much. It's what you make of it. If someone is defining it for you, it's time to GiddyUp.


btw, Please don't think my mention of that enjoyment is throwing it in anyone's face, especially those that have had run in's or any problems with drink. I sincerely appreciate the candid posts and honesty in the spirit it's intended and shared.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

no beers for me after a ride, usually have an hour or so to drive so if I want a beer or two it can wait.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Quite a few critters in the wild like alcohol...some rodents, birds, insects... Perhaps they evolved a taste for it consuming it incidentally in fermented plant matter. Whatever the cause, they will go after it if available. A taste for it has deep evolutionary roots.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Lone Rager said:


> Quite a few critters in the wild like alcohol...some rodents, birds, insects... Perhaps they evolved a taste for it consuming it incidentally in fermented plant matter. Whatever the cause, they will go after it if available. A taste for it has deep evolutionary roots.


Going on 40+ years ago, we had a Japanese beetle invasion in SoCal. We were advised to set out beer traps. One day found one of the dishes completely dry and our cat sleeping it off nearby.

Can't really confirm he drank it, but sure looked funny.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

The OP's buddy may get 20 days hard labor? That's still a thing??


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Let's take this insanity line by line:



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Umm no, you trust those charts?


They are a basis for understanding, not a hard and fast rule.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> A couple of sips and you are on the edge of being over that low .08 level. A beer, a glass of wine, a shot or a mixed drink and you are over. A couple of sips is pretty much a drink, no?


This is just wrong. No a couple of sips is not a drink, unless it's straight liquor. I've had the opportunity to use a breathalyzer while drinking on several occasions and it takes me about three to four normal beers to get to over that limit. Some friends went close to six.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Besides most cops only need smell it on you and you are treated like a criminal. Out in the street taking all their tests. Questioned repeatedly, calling for a backup cop to come because the cop doesnt have a portable breathalyzer. Hauled in and given another breathalyzer at the station. Yes .08 is nothing and it doesn't take much to get there. And it doesn't even take for a cop to witness bad driving.


Sounds like they're treating you like someone who may have committed a crime, that's their job.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Another citizen can call your plate in and the cops will be waiting on your street for you to arrive. Even the people serving the alcohol can get your name off your credit card and call it in to the cops and the cops will be on your street waiting for you to come home.


Again you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I've called about drunk drivers on a few occasions and I can promise you they were not waiting for those people when they got home... I don't think they even looked for them at all.

And now to perhaps the most ridiculous assertion of all - bartenders are calling in your name off a credit card so the police can arrest you when you get home... You do realized that bar tender would be criminally and civilly liable because they knowingly over-served a customer and allowed them to drive. I can't believe you typed out such a ridiculous, demonstrably false claim.

Sorry, you make lots of great posts on here, but this whole post is just nonsense.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Idea: Pack two beers in the Camelbak as well as all your riding buddies can pack theirs. Stop a mile before the trailhead and hike-A-bike off trail out of sight and have a party where no other hiker or rider will see you call the cops. Or just don't drink after riding.


I much prefer a beer after the big climb and before the big descent to one in the parking lot... Partially because I know I'll digest it a bit more before driving that way.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

I wonder what the OP's buddy did to get pulled over (swerving, speeding, etc.). Or did someone at the trail head call the cops after watching him drink a beer?

Granted, Montana has some "permissive" attitudes about drinking (resulting in some horrible ratings by MADD and other watchdog groups) but I doubt our cops would even follow up on a report of someone drinking at a trail head - it's just a given that that happens.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

dir-T said:


> I wonder what the OP's buddy did to get pulled over (swerving, speeding, etc.). Or did someone at the trail head call the cops after watching him drink a beer?


It's been covered, he pulled over to take a leak in a pull out...unfortunately the same pullout that an officer was at taking a break.


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## Squeeze (Apr 14, 2015)

Over the last several years as DUI/DWI has become such a talked-about thing and penalties have apparently gotten so severe, I've been wondering about roadside bars with large numbers of cars, trucks, and motorcycles parked outside on weekends. Roadhouses, some call 'em. You guys know the place - neon beer signs in all the windows, happy hour specials, deep-fried bar food to go along with draft beer in plastic cups, etc. - the kind of place a freshly-arrived Terminator might visit to obtain clothes, boots, and a motorcycle.

Everyone knows people are sitting in these bars drinking and watching sports on TV and shooting pool and whatnot on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

Why don't the cops just set up DUI/DWI checkpoints a mile or two away from these places every Saturday and Sunday late afternoon/evening? It seems to me that those people are being almost as obvious about drinking and driving as post-ride MTBers described in this thread, such as...



Le Duke said:


> I also saw multiple groups of people at the Inlet Bay parking area who were sitting in plain view of the road, drinking a beer.


Cops would probably also fill a paddy wagon or two if they'd set up near boat ramps at lakes on weekend afternoons and pull over every pickup with a still-dripping boat on the trailer.

And I'm not shouting for more DUI/DWI enforcement, but just sort of wondering at the whole situation. I mean, do they want to eliminate drunk driving, or just keep a lot of people doing community service and paying higher insurance premiums?

For what it's worth, I'm old enough to remember when people would drink beer WHILE driving. Guys drove around with half-full beer cans held between their legs (before cupholders in cars were common) and threw the empties under the bench seat, down there with the lap-belt-only seatbelts that were never worn and empty cigarette packs. Guys in pickup trucks would toss their empty beer cans into the back of their pickup truck beds before popping open another or pulling into the nearest roadside gas station to buy another ice-cold tallboy.

I'm not saying a return to those days are desirable, but it seems like enforcement is somewhat random, rather than targeted at places and times where everyone knows drinking and driving is occurring on a regular basis.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

og-mtb said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> Folks who decide to drive after drinking too much are not any type of victim, let alone the victim of a "police state."


That is a matter of perspective and opinion.

What cannot be rightly denied is there are drivers with 10+ DWI who go through a revolving door and back on the road because they don't have enough assets to be worth fining and the prisons are at full capacity so it isn't worth keeping them behind bars. As time progresses the system acts more like a for-profit entity who is more interested in extracting all it can from the occasional line crosser while ignoring the habitual menaces to public safety.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Squeeze said:


> Cops would probably also fill a paddy wagon or two if they'd set up near boat ramps at lakes on weekend afternoons and pull over every pickup with a still-dripping boat on the trailer.


For realz.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

You can hurt someone as an occasional line crosser.

Just saying..

As a disclaimer, like Finch said, I got very luck when I was younger, very. At almost 54 is not worth the risk.

We had 1 beer after the OC ride in Vegas, but that was it.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

Squeeze said:


> For what it's worth, I'm old enough to remember when people would drink beer WHILE driving. .


I'm only 44 and I remember when that was LEGAL in my state. The state finally realized how much federal highway $ they were missing out on so made a law against is in the early 2000s.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Squeeze said:


> Over the last several years as DUI/DWI has become such a talked-about thing and penalties have apparently gotten so severe, I've been wondering about roadside bars with large numbers of cars, trucks, and motorcycles parked outside on weekends. Roadhouses, some call 'em. You guys know the place - neon beer signs in all the windows, happy hour specials, deep-fried bar food to go along with draft beer in plastic cups, etc. - the kind of place a freshly-arrived Terminator might visit to obtain clothes, boots, and a motorcycle.
> 
> Everyone knows people are sitting in these bars drinking and watching sports on TV and shooting pool and whatnot on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
> 
> Why don't the cops just set up DUI/DWI checkpoints a mile or two away from these places every Saturday and Sunday late afternoon/evening?


The CHP does this in the small mountain town I live in and townspeople call the bar and let the bartender know, who then yells out a warning to those in the saloon. If someone drives by and honks twice, that's code for "CHP" skulking around. I walk there if I want a beer outside the house so my licence isn't affected, but on the other hand I sold my road bike mainly because of the drunk drivers, and soccer moms rushing little Jonny to practice.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

TheDwayyo said:


> I've called about drunk drivers on a few occasions and I can promise you they were not waiting for those people when they got home... I don't think they even looked for them at all.
> 
> And now to perhaps the most ridiculous assertion of all - bartenders are calling in your name off a credit card so the police can arrest you when you get home... You do realized that bar tender would be criminally and civilly liable because they knowingly over-served a customer and allowed them to drive. I can't believe you typed out such a ridiculous, demonstrably false claim.
> 
> Sorry, you make lots of great posts on here, but this whole post is just nonsense.


I'm not even going to address the ones above this one, these two I will address. I know for a fact that when a license plate is called in the cops go straight to the residence and wait for the person to come driving down the street. I know of someone this happened to and he got a DUI right down the street from his residence. I live in a pretty small town and the cops are way overzealous to catch anyone doing anything wrong. Talk about embarrassing, many of his neighbors drove by as he was taking the drunk driving tests. Handcuffed and put in the back of a patrol car while a tow truck hauled his vehicle away. The cops wouldn't even allow it to sit on his own street. This town also lists arrests that happened around town and what they were charged with in the local newspaper every day, they just don't include names. So all his neighbors had to do was just look in the paper the next day to find out what he was charged with. As far as a bartender or waiter / waitress calling in a name off a CC of a patron who drank too much. I have no proof and I get what you are saying putting them liable for over serving. But who's to say they couldn't call in anonymously. It's rare that a bar is held accountable for over serving in a drunk driver arrest. If there's a huge crash with innocent victims killed, then yes, it would be looked into.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Crankout said:


> The OP's buddy may get 20 days hard labor? That's still a thing??


Picking up trash on the freeway or at a county park. They're known as the Weekend Warriors.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

dir-T said:


> I'm only 44 and I remember when that was LEGAL in my state. The state finally realized how much federal highway $ they were missing out on so made a law against is in the early 2000s.


It's still legal for passengers.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

evasive said:


> It's still legal for passengers.


In CA you get a ticket for an open container.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

jcd46 said:


> In CA you get a ticket for an open container.


I imagine it's that way in most states, but here a container in the immediate possession of a passenger is specifically excluded from the code. The statute also says it can't be tracked on your license or reported to insurance companies. That gives you an idea of how much foot dragging there was over it.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

evasive said:


> I imagine it's that way in most states, but here a container in the immediate possession of a passenger is specifically excluded from the code. The statute also says it can't be tracked on your license or reported to insurance companies. That gives you an idea of how much foot dragging there was over it.


Got it. If your profile is correct, its a place I want to visit.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I believe in NV not only can the driver be ticketed for the passenger having an open container but the passenger can as well. 

Been reading through this and watching as things transpire. I have never been one to have a "road pop" regardless of at the trailhead or not. However, I am like some of the other riders in here that I know that especially after a ride I need food. While a good beer, I like IPAs, tastes fantastic afterwards, I ALWAYS do so with food. However, I also work with Law Enforcement and getting any sort of DUI would be an instant dismissal from my position. I may be able to appeal the dismissal but at that point the embarrassment would be more than I would want to handle. 

Just don't do it. Not worth it and NO BEER takes that good to jeopardize your livelihood. At dinner I may have one, on the rare occasion two, but for the most part I opt to be the driver and leave the fun to be had by others. Would rather have everyone able to ride with me again than risk the consequences.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm not even going to address the ones above this one, these two I will address. I know for a fact that when a license plate is called in the cops go straight to the residence and wait for the person to come driving down the street. I know of someone this happened to and he got a DUI right down the street from his residence. I live in a pretty small town and the cops are way overzealous to catch anyone doing anything wrong. Talk about embarrassing, many of his neighbors drove by as he was taking the drunk driving tests. Handcuffed and put in the back of a patrol car while a tow truck hauled his vehicle away. The cops wouldn't even allow it to sit on his own street. This town also lists arrests that happened around town and what they were charged with in the local newspaper every day, they just don't include names. So all his neighbors had to do was just look in the paper the next day to find out what he was charged with. As far as a bartender or waiter / waitress calling in a name off a CC of a patron who drank too much. I have no proof and I get what you are saying putting them liable for over serving. But who's to say they couldn't call in anonymously. It's rare that a bar is held accountable for over serving in a drunk driver arrest. If there's a huge crash with innocent victims killed, then yes, it would be looked into.


I was driving home from work and accidentally drifted into another lane. Some lady lost her **** and was honking and flashing her lights. About 10 miles later a cop was parked in the center divide, pulled me over and said he got a call I was drunk. 
It happens

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

By the the way, everybody here in Michigan drinks and drives. I work in Bay City where there is a bar on every corner with packed parking lots on the weekend. These folks are certainly getting in their cars over the legal limit. 

Laws and harsh penalties have certainly cut down on drinking and driving but people still risk it all the time and generally, if you think about it, are not caught.

People smoke a lot of weed up here now also and are definitely impaired when they get in their cars. 

I'm see a lot of potheads and drunks coming to the ER with substance related problems and telling me that they can handle their alcohol and, lately, that Marijuana is healthy and has no health consequences.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

I had the occasion to use breathalyzers years ago relative to healthcare situations and not for legal purposes. For just over 4 years, I dealt with a lot of the inner city type issues and alleged DUI, problem drinkers and the occasional OOPS !! 
Seen big folks that can't handle much drink and fly-weights that can.

Depending on the variables of YOUR TOWN, USA, patrol and LEO resources may be somewhat aggressive or lacking. Timing how long a car is parked at a tavern sounds like different things to different people. Smart. Entrapment. Aggressive. LEO baring down on your bumper as if causing you/forcing you to speed sounds "nutty" but things happen in various locales defining a basis for understanding in those areas by locals who'd know.
Definitely no hard fast rules on most of this stuff when it plays out somewhat inconsistently with what is familiar to us.

As for this;

_As far as a bartender or waiter / waitress calling in a name off a CC of a patron who drank too much. I have no proof and I get what you are saying putting them liable for over serving. But who's to say they couldn't call in anonymously. It's rare that a bar is held accountable for over serving in a drunk driver arrest._

A patron like that can easily mouth-off, make a scene or offend other customers or staff in a bar / lounge setting. Having that followed up by a caller to report it seems fairly likely if they jump in their car to drive away or are escorted out.

I don't know what the 'machine' would show if I was tested 15 minutes after drinking a 1/2 of beer as 7% abv or two beers within 1 hour that were 5%. I do try to be safe about it and within .08 or newer standards pushing for .05 , we all need to be very careful.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm not even going to address the ones above this one, these two I will address. *I know for a fact that when a license plate is called in the cops go straight to the residence and wait for the person to come driving down the street.* I know of someone this happened to and he got a DUI right down the street from his residence. I live in a pretty small town and the cops are way overzealous to catch anyone doing anything wrong. Talk about embarrassing, many of his neighbors drove by as he was taking the drunk driving tests. Handcuffed and put in the back of a patrol car while a tow truck hauled his vehicle away. The cops wouldn't even allow it to sit on his own street. This town also lists arrests that happened around town and what they were charged with in the local newspaper every day, they just don't include names. So all his neighbors had to do was just look in the paper the next day to find out what he was charged with. As far as a bartender or waiter / waitress calling in a name off a CC of a patron who drank too much. I have no proof and I get what you are saying putting them liable for over serving. But who's to say they couldn't call in anonymously. It's rare that a bar is held accountable for over serving in a drunk driver arrest. If there's a huge crash with innocent victims killed, then yes, it would be looked into.


That is more of a jurisdictional item/requirement/practice than anything else. If one person calls, dispatch normally will find an officer in the area to see if they see what is going on and can confirm what has happened. Hence why people get pulled over passing an officer on the street. If the plate is run and an officer is near the residence or there is an officer covering that area, they "MAY" go and wait to see if the person drives by. The reason I say MAY is because there is little to no guarantee that the person is driving to the residence listed on the plate. Plate can be registered to a complete different address, person could be headed elsewhere. There is just no guarantee. This is where small towns are different simply based on the "available" crime rate. In the first case listed, it sounds like the person you know was obviously in the wrong and we are back to the "don't do the crime if you can't do the time." With technology today, it is easy to call an Uber/Lyft or taxi to take you. ****, it is better to call and wake and piss-off a friend to drive your drunk ass home.

In most jurisdictions, if you are believed to be drunk (probable cause) and an officer witnesses you getting into a vehicle they have the right and authority to detain you at that point. Plain and simple this is to keep people that SHOULD NOT be driving off the road. Example of this would be an officer passing by a bar/restaurant and witnessing you staggering to your vehicle, keys in hand. The moment your key enters the lock they then have probable cause to detain you. MOST will wait to see if you get into the drivers seat as you potentially could be just grabbing something out of your vehicle. But that moment you walk towards a vehicle with keys in hand, you are then suspect. Again, the officers NUMBER 1 PRIORITY is to keep the public and themselves SAFE. This means that if there is a question in THEIR MIND as to the possible compromised abilities you may have due to close proximity of a bar/restaurant and you exhibit signs of being drunk, YOU WILL BE STOPPED.

Perfect example, Few months ago the wife and I were having a nice dinner at around 9pm at a local pub. The pub is right on the main drag in town and the entire front of the pub is glass. We see a gentleman that is somewhat well dressed but acting very strange, dancing on the sidewalk, pacing up and down in front of the building, talking to himself, dancing more, having a conversation with a light pole, etc. We thought this was very odd and while all this happened a family friend that is part of the local SO drives by in his patrol vehicle. He stopped and came around the backside of the building to view what was going on. As he came around the other direction and the front of the building he noticed us, waved and then came in. We chatted for a moment while he observed the man doing the same things above for a few minutes before he bid us goodbye for the moment and went outside.

After about 20 minutes he came back in to talk with us some more and say goodbye for the night. Turns out that there had been a couple calls from people on the road about the guy acting strange. Our friend witnessed it, though he was head to his normal patrol route and decided to stop and see what was going on. The initial summary was that the gentleman was either drunk or high. After going out and talking to him he found that he was neither, or at least exhibited no signs of either, the story that was given to him was that he had been in the car for 10+hrs and just got into town and was walking around, listening to some music to get the shakes out from the long car ride. His hotel was two blocks away and thus was not driving. After he complied with being asked for his ID and a quick name check was run that didn't yield any wants/warrants he was bid farewell, have a good night and that was it.

This was nothing more than ensuring not only Public Safety but also his own. Since the main drag was right there, still semi busy they were just ensuring that A) he was not a danger to himself by walking out into traffic or falling and hurting himself, B) that he was not a danger to the public by potentially walking out into oncoming traffic and causing an accident, or causing a scene that could distract drivers and cause an accident, and C) was not doing anything else malicious like stalking a person, casing a local business, etc.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

gregnash said:


> Example of this would be an officer passing by a bar/restaurant and witnessing you staggering to your vehicle, keys in hand. The moment your key enters the lock they then have probable cause to detain you. MOST will wait to see if you get into the drivers seat as you potentially could be just grabbing something out of your vehicle. But that moment you walk towards a vehicle with keys in hand, you are then suspect.


For the past several years I've been wondering about the above part specifically. Now that a lot of cars have "smart keys" where you leave the key fob in your pocket and just touch the door handle to unlock it, and you don't need a physical key to start the motor, is there still probable cause if there's no visible key (because it's in your pocket)? Could a person argue that he or she was just getting in the car to "sleep it off?"


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nat said:


> For the past several years I've been wondering about the above part specifically. Now that a lot of cars have "smart keys" where you leave the key fob in your pocket and just touch the door handle to unlock it, and you don't need a physical key to start the motor, is there still probably cause if there's no visible key (because it's in your pocket)? Could a person argue that he or she was just getting in the car to "sleep it off?"


Technically, in most jurisdictions if you are in the drivers seat that shows intent to drive which is considered probably cause. Many jurisdictions will actually go as far as if you enter the vehicle period. The whole "sleeping it off" in the vehicle is left to the interpretation of the officer(s) at hand, best bet is to not do it period.

It used to be that the officer(s) would watch you with key in hand to see if you had difficulty putting the key into the door cylinder to operate the lock and open the door. Doing so would demonstrate an impaired capacity. However, with automatic door locks, keyless entry, etc. that has become more difficult. So many times, again based on the judgement of the officer(s), they will make the call before you enter the vehicle. In POST you are trained what to look for and how to make a judgement quickly. It takes mere seconds for someone to get into their vehicle, start it and be on the move, so an officer much make the judgement as quickly as possible. This seems to be a situation that most public/civilians/joeschmo don't understand and thus get pissed off as the officer is "harassing" them.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

gregnash said:


> Technically, in most jurisdictions if you are in the drivers seat that shows intent to drive which is considered probably cause. Many jurisdictions will actually go as far as if you enter the vehicle period. The whole "sleeping it off" in the vehicle is left to the interpretation of the officer(s) at hand, best bet is to not do it period.
> 
> It used to be that the officer(s) would watch you with key in hand to see if you had difficulty putting the key into the door cylinder to operate the lock and open the door. Doing so would demonstrate an impaired capacity. However, with automatic door locks, keyless entry, etc. that has become more difficult. So many times, again based on the judgement of the officer(s), they will make the call before you enter the vehicle. In POST you are trained what to look for and how to make a judgement quickly. It takes mere seconds for someone to get into their vehicle, start it and be on the move, so an officer much make the judgement as quickly as possible. This seems to be a situation that most public/civilians/joeschmo don't understand and thus get pissed off as the officer is "harassing" them.


Several years ago, I had a couple living two doors down that both had suspended licenses for DUI. His for sleeping in the car with the keys in his pocket in front of a house party. He hadn't been driving. Her's was for going out to a friend's car to grab a pack of smokes in the parking lot of a club. She had keys in her hand and was cuffed and stuffed. The car was not towed and the keys were returned to the owner. This was in So Cal.

I'm on my out to Taco Tuesday and I'll be driving my Chevrolegs.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Greg, good info. thanks for chiming in. We live in great time when we have Uber and Lyft to call if there are any plans of any recreational drinking away from home.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

gregnash said:


> Technically, in most jurisdictions if you are in the drivers seat that shows intent to drive which is considered probably cause. Many jurisdictions will actually go as far as if you enter the vehicle period. The whole "sleeping it off" in the vehicle is left to the interpretation of the officer(s) at hand, best bet is to not do it period.
> 
> It used to be that the officer(s) would watch you with key in hand to see if you had difficulty putting the key into the door cylinder to operate the lock and open the door. Doing so would demonstrate an impaired capacity. However, with automatic door locks, keyless entry, etc. that has become more difficult. So many times, again based on the judgement of the officer(s), they will make the call before you enter the vehicle. In POST you are trained what to look for and how to make a judgement quickly. It takes mere seconds for someone to get into their vehicle, start it and be on the move, so an officer much make the judgement as quickly as possible. This seems to be a situation that most public/civilians/joeschmo don't understand and thus get pissed off as the officer is "harassing" them.


Very interesting. Thanks for replying. I suppose with modern "van life" type rigs one could claim to be crawling in the back to sleep more convincingly than in a sedan. Again, subject to interpretation by the officer.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Most cops aren't monsters. If you're napping in the back seat of your car in a bar parking lot, they get it. That's substantially different than being passed out on the side of the freeway.

The cops also know if youre **** canned, keys in hand, obviously drunk and wide awake, you're probably not headed to sleep it off.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I'd rather talk to a Uber driver than an Lawyer.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

You're not talking about probable cause. You're talking about reasonable suspicion. Different legal theories. Generally, officers need only reasonable suspicion to make a traffic stop or a vehicle contact.

States set laws for driving offenses, not municipalities in a general sense. There's a concept called "actual physical control." Commonly, a person would need to be in actual physical control of a vehicle in order to be charged with DUI. In Arizona, that would mean inside the vehicle with the vehicle running.

In an above example, any good cop would certainly contact a person who appeared intoxicated and was attempting to get into a vehicle. That person generally could not be prosecuted for DUI. However, if that person could not understand common logic and pushed the issue, he or she could easily find himself arrested for some other charge, mostly to prevent him from driving away and killing himself or others.

This is known as "talking yourself into jail."


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ravewoofer said:


> Weird, maybe trail head beers isn't a Massachusetts thing.


Trailhead as well as trailside beers are most definitely a Massachusetts thing.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Phillbo said:


> I'd rather talk to a Uber driver than an Lawyer.


Wayyyy cheaper.

Realistically though who's going to call an Uber to get you and your bike from the trailhead after a beer? Best to not drink right before heading home.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

TheDwayyo said:


> I much prefer a beer after the big climb and before the big descent to one in the parking lot... Partially because I know I'll digest it a bit more before driving that way.


That I can't do but more power to you, for me cracking a beer means work or play is done and it's time to kick back and relax.



natas1321 said:


> no beers for me after a ride, usually have an hour or so to drive so if I want a beer or two it can wait.


By the time I get home, shower, and fix a little food it's usually at least an hour. I still consider that having a beer after a ride but I guess it disqualifies me from a potential post-ride DUI.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

One Pivot said:


> Most cops aren't monsters. If you're napping in the back seat of your car in a bar parking lot, they get it. That's substantially different than being passed out on the side of the freeway.
> 
> The cops also know if youre **** canned, keys in hand, obviously drunk and wide awake, you're probably not headed to sleep it off.


It depends on where you are. Here in Taxifornia, I don't bring keys with me if I walk down for tacos and beer.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm not even going to address the ones above this one, these two I will address. I know for a fact that when a license plate is called in the cops go straight to the residence and wait for the person to come driving down the street. I know of someone this happened to and he got a DUI right down the street from his residence. I live in a pretty small town and the cops are way overzealous to catch anyone doing anything wrong. Talk about embarrassing, many of his neighbors drove by as he was taking the drunk driving tests. Handcuffed and put in the back of a patrol car while a tow truck hauled his vehicle away. The cops wouldn't even allow it to sit on his own street. This town also lists arrests that happened around town and what they were charged with in the local newspaper every day, they just don't include names. So all his neighbors had to do was just look in the paper the next day to find out what he was charged with. As far as a bartender or waiter / waitress calling in a name off a CC of a patron who drank too much. I have no proof and I get what you are saying putting them liable for over serving. But who's to say they couldn't call in anonymously. It's rare that a bar is held accountable for over serving in a drunk driver arrest. If there's a huge crash with innocent victims killed, then yes, it would be looked into.


That's wild, but you should recognize that your town is the exception and not the rule. I live in an area with millions of people, I can promise you if I call in your plate to the cops they ARE NOT going to be waiting for you at your home. I've called several times and they just don't care. They'll get a general area and say that there's an officer nearby who will be on the lookout, but that's it.

Same goes for if a bartender anonymously called it in, they're just not gonna waste their time on that... But again, why didn't the bartender just call a cab and ask the person not to drive - which is considered their responsibility in that situation.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Then there's this guy:

Buxton police say a Waterboro man was charged with drunken driving after he backed into another vehicle and inadvertently began towing it behind his truck.

https://www.centralmaine.com/2019/0...unk-driving-after-strange-incident-in-buxton/


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Phillbo said:


> I'd rather talk to a Uber driver than an Lawyer.


I don't really see the difference.

Well wait, One gets paid by the mile and one by the hour. :thumbsup:

:lol:


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> For me cracking a beer means work or play is done and it's time to kick back and relax...


I used to travel to the EU on business fairly regularly. Pretty standard for them to have beer/wine with lunch, even served in the cafeterias of big companies. For me, staying awaking in meetings after lunch was hard enough without it.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

bachman1961 said:


> I don't really see the difference.
> 
> Well wait, One gets paid by the mile and one by the hour.


The Uber driver gets paid by the mile whether he's talking or not. On my last ride (Lyft) the driver was on his hands-free in a language I didn't recognize for the entire 2+ hour drive.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

bachman1961 said:


> I don't really see the difference.
> 
> Well wait, One gets paid by the mile and one by the hour. :thumbsup:
> 
> :lol:


And they both take you for a ride?

Kidding. I like my lawyer.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

In Pisgah, it's pretty much a ritual for me, everytime I descend something burly (Black, Bennett, Farlow, etc.), I always pop an IPA can beforehand. Helps quell me nerves...

But, I've never had beers at the trailhead at the end of a ride. That just doesn't sound good to me. It's always water or Powerade, etc.

As far as post-ride beers - the only times I've done it, and I can count them on one hand, is when I got finished riding Pisgah with my girl and we hit The Hub or Ecusta to grab one.

I typically don't like to drink alcohol after a ride, my inclination is to re-hydrate properly, and grab a shower immediately afterwards.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Vader said:


> Picking up trash on the freeway or at a county park. They're known as the Weekend Warriors.


Seems I used to see that out here but not in a long time. I have no issue with it!


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

post ride beers, but in the hotel


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Blatant said:


> You're not talking about probable cause. You're talking about reasonable suspicion. Different legal theories. Generally, officers need only reasonable suspicion to make a traffic stop or a vehicle contact.
> 
> States set laws for driving offenses, not municipalities in a general sense. There's a concept called "actual physical control." Commonly, a person would need to be in actual physical control of a vehicle in order to be charged with DUI. In Arizona, that would mean inside the vehicle with the vehicle running.
> 
> ...


Thanks for correction and you are correct. I was talking about Reasonable Suspicion, not probable cause.

Like I said, things are different per state. For Nevada, if you are in the vehicle, that is where your "physical control" statement starts from what I have understood. The engine does not have to be running, basically officers are on "high alert" once they see you milling around a vehicle with keys in hand. But you are also correct, in that most will not automatically go to DUI. However, the main difference I have found was in those areas around Universities, usually within a certain block/mile radius, where campus police (in NV they are true LEA) will nail you for a DUI as soon as you touch your vehicle. Seen it as well on the "strips" where if you are parked just off the main drag but nearby patrols will nail you quickly there. Main reasoning behind that is you are talking about high pedestrian areas.

Ultimately though it does come down to the interpretation of the officer(s) at hand.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Crankout said:


> The OP's buddy may get 20 days hard labor? That's still a thing??





Vader said:


> Picking up trash on the freeway or at a county park. They're known as the Weekend Warriors.


Does picking up trash count as hard labor nowadays? Man, humans have gotten soft.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

TheDwayyo said:


> That's wild, but you should recognize that your town is the exception and not the rule. I live in an area with millions of people, I can promise you if I call in your plate to the cops they ARE NOT going to be waiting for you at your home. I've called several times and they just don't care. They'll get a general area and say that there's an officer nearby who will be on the lookout, but that's it.
> 
> Same goes for if a bartender anonymously called it in, they're just not gonna waste their time on that... But again, why didn't the bartender just call a cab and ask the person not to drive - which is considered their responsibility in that situation.


That is really an incorrect perception of the situation. It is not that the officers or dispatch "don't care" it comes down to what they have the man power for. This is a HUGE misunderstanding that many people have, especially if they do not have any LE experience. I urge you to go on a ride-along with your local agency, call and ask to do one for a "typical busy" night and you will be amazed at the number of calls you hear come over. Even in small towns, locals are running ragged all night long on busy nights trying to handle calls, when you get into a town/city with a population over 75-100k things can get crazy if there are not enough officers on hand. Highest priority calls are handled first and foremost, and that priority is usually given to DV, crashes, discharge of firearms, etc. that would be considered more of a public safety concern than a call on a potential "lane weaver" that could be anything from someone intoxicated to an older person that just can't drive.

I know that doesn't necessarily sound kosher or right but when you have loads of calls coming in, there is only so much you can do with the staff on hand.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

gregnash said:


> That is really an incorrect perception of the situation. It is not that the officers or dispatch "don't care" it comes down to what they have the man power for. This is a HUGE misunderstanding that many people have, especially if they do not have any LE experience. I urge you to go on a ride-along with your local agency, call and ask to do one for a "typical busy" night and you will be amazed at the number of calls you hear come over. Even in small towns, locals are running ragged all night long on busy nights trying to handle calls, when you get into a town/city with a population over 75-100k things can get crazy if there are not enough officers on hand. Highest priority calls are handled first and foremost, and that priority is usually given to DV, crashes, discharge of firearms, etc. that would be considered more of a public safety concern than a call on a potential "lane weaver" that could be anything from someone intoxicated to an older person that just can't drive.
> 
> I know that doesn't necessarily sound kosher or right but when you have loads of calls coming in, there is only so much you can do with the staff on hand.


exactly


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> Does picking up trash count as hard labor nowadays? Man, humans have gotten soft.


It's the soft generation.


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Beer is about the last thing I ever yearn for, so this is an easy call for me.

Rare exception was on my first hike in the Grand Canyon, upon arrival at Phantom Ranch. Those shitty overpriced (but ICE COLD) cans of Tecate were amazeballs. Three of them, combined with mild dehydration, made for a lotta blurry photos afterwards.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Sidewalk said:


> I= If you want to be demonized, go talk to a recovering alcoholic...those guys will really demonize you.


Lol wut.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Wow. This thread is an eye opener. A few thoughts: 

1. 2.5 IPAs and you blow a .08 is very real if you are drinking a double IPA (my go to is Bells Hopslam). 
2. Washington DC has a ZERO tolerance. If you blow anything other than a 0.00, you have won yourself a DUI. Wish this weren't true but it is. 
3. Up until the last 3 years, I would commonly bring a cooler of beer to EVERY ride. Yeah I was THAT GUY. Stupid, stupid, stupid in hindsight. Fast forward to today, I no longer drink a the trail head. If we go to dinner, I am one and done. At home, I limit myself to 2-3 beers; most nights its 1-2 beers. Fortunately for me, I never had a DUI. I cut my drinking for weight loss. I am some 45+ lbs lighter today than 3 years ago. Drinking was my achiles; I eat well, I ride a ton but consumed way too many kcals in beers. FYI, the average IPA has 160-250 kcals per 12 oz bottle. For me, one beer at the TH lead to 2, 3, sometimes 4 beers at the TH. And then, what the heck-keep the party rolling it would lead to several more beers at home or at a restaurant. No more. 
4. In IL (where I used to live), you can get a DUI/DWI while riding a bike. In IL, (specifically Peoria and Tazewell counties) riding your bike while buzzed/drunk does not provide you with loophole to avoid a DUI/DWI.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Thoreau said:


> Beer is about the last thing I ever yearn for, so this is an easy call for me.
> 
> Rare exception was on my first hike in the Grand Canyon, upon arrival at Phantom Ranch. Those shitty overpriced (but ICE COLD) cans of Tecate were amazeballs. Three of them, combined with mild dehydration, made for a lotta blurry photos afterwards.


In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.

This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bingemtbr said:


> .
> 4. In IL (where I used to live), you can get a DUI/DWI while riding a bike. In IL, (specifically Peoria and Tazewell counties) riding your bike while buzzed/drunk does not provide you with loophole to avoid a DUI/DWI.


This is actually true in most states. Just like bicycles are considered a standard mode of transportation, you are "supposed" to abide by the laws of the road when riding on one. So, signaling before turns, stopping at stop signs/lights, yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. all apply. Most officers will not harass you unless you do something stupid like blow through an intersection/stop light/etc. But that is completely up to them.

The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.

I do like the idea of the "vanlife" situation throwing a whole wrench into everything as that is a whole different dynamic. Most of those individuals though are more "setup" for that type of situation and usually openly leave their doors open to see their living quarters. However, that could instigate a different type of stop as they could be potentially staying/parked in a location that _is not_ an open camping location.

Main take away from this is JUST DON'T DO IT! No trail beer will taste that good, and really it doesn't normally take much to get everyone to a restaurant to commence the "consumption of mass quantities" recount the ride detail and be all good.

Oh and to @bingemtbr's #1 point... hell look at Pliny the Elder.. comes in a 22oz bottle normally and has an 8% ABV!!! But those are dangerous because they are sooooooooo good and go down sooooooo easily! Or if you are not an IPA drinker, most STOUTS have at least 7-9% ABV.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The ways people try to rationalize drinking and driving is absolutely insane. Great, your idiot parents used to drive around while drinking. I used to drink 12 beers and drive to Tijuana from norcal. Never got caught, never had an accident, but jeez. I have the sense to at least admit that that was a TERRIBLE idea. People have half that amount of alcohol and kill themselves driving home across town. 

There's no excuses. Have a beer after a ride, wait an hour, and you'll be fine. Any more beers or any less time and you're getting a DUI. Seriously, what do you think you have to gain by pushing it with DUI laws?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

gregnash said:


> The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.


Man, I feel bad for a lot of you guys wrt to the overbearing enforcement BS (as well as the special type of asshole who would actually call the cops over seeing a beer).

We have no law against public drinking where I live; you can crack one wherever you want (except in the car, of course). Same goes if you want to spark up a joint. It's practically like living in a free country!


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Man, I feel bad for a lot of you guys wrt to the overbearing enforcement BS (as well as the special type of asshole who would actually call the cops over seeing a beer).
> 
> We have no law against public drinking where I live; you can crack one wherever you want (except in the car, of course). Same goes if you want to spark up a joint. It's practically like living in a free country!


Well, we both live in New England. I've been here for over 50 years. What town or state around here permits open container?

Maybe I'm provincial, but nowhere in Massachusetts. NH, could be, but still have my doubts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ravewoofer said:


> nowhere in Massachusetts.


Actually sir, you are mistaken.  Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually sir, you are mistaken.  Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.


 With a brewery and trails too.


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Nat said:


> In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.
> 
> This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:


I was subscribed to that theory some time ago too. Used to haul a fat can of Stella, Kilt Lifter, or Sapporo, along with a nice cigar, up the mountain and take some time to soak in the views and relax with those tasty vices. The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.

Good times =)


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.
> 
> This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:


Hmm, I much prefer an imperial stout at the top of a climb. But, I'm extremely weird.

Nothing at the trailhead though and typically a couple of hours between consumption and driving.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

bingemtbr said:


> Wow. This thread is an eye opener. A few thoughts:
> 
> 1. 2.5 IPAs and you blow a .08 is very real if you are drinking a double IPA (my go to is Bells Hopslam).


I think 2.5 of whatever is likely too much.

In the past, I would drive right after one beer with food. Never more than one though so that I'd have a safety factor going.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Last nights post ride libations were shared among 3 of us. We shared one 12oz Single IPA and 1 22oz Double IPA.

So that is about 11oz of beer each?

Moderation is the key.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Klurejr said:


> Moderation is the key.


I give up moderation for Lent.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Thoreau said:


> The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.


I don't know if I could finish a thick beer but a weak American lager goes down nicely. I have an elaborate set up involving beer can-shaped freezer ice blocks that go inside an insulated backpack. It keeps the beer frosty and the food cool too.

And


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I have one of these, but the only time I've ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). It's a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.










https://www.dakine.com/en-us/bags/backpacks/street-backpacks/party-pack-28l/


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

evasive said:


> I have one of these, but the only time I've ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). It's a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.


Oooooooh, nice.

Pshhhht! Glug glug glug.


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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

I went full retard a few months ago because reasons and lost my license for 3 months and my truck was impounded for a month. I got my license back just before the Christmas shutdown (after hemorrhaging money on fines and driver courses) I got 5 points on my license but didn't get a criminal record for my actions because I was honest with the officer that busted me. It was a learning experience and while I wasn't able to drive I biked to work every day (I got a lot of funny looks when it was -30C and my facial hair was frozen solid!) Moral of the story: don't be stupid!


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually sir, you are mistaken.  Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.


...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Klurejr said:


> Moderation is the key.


To give reason to follow this, it helps to understand what exactly you're putting in your body and how it handles it.

One primary danger of alcohol happens when you overwhelm your body's production of enzymes that break down the carcinogenic parts of alcohol (acetaldehyde). The enzymes normally break down this carcinogen quickly, into harmless compounds, but there's only so much it can manage at once. There will be observable localized damage where the alcohol is broken down in the body, including the liver and brain, where the carcinogens damage DNA, progressing into health issues such as liver cirrhosis and cancer. The body's production rate of the important enzymes (ALDH2) varies from person to person, and those who produce very little should exercise more strict moderation.

A secondary danger of alcohol is acidosis (excessive [lactic] acid build-up) and hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), which leads to other health issues related to weight gain and fatty liver, which includes heart attack and perhaps even stroke. The alcohol disrupts the internal balance (homeostasis) in the body, and if consumed excessively, will show with the usual signs such as motor function impairment, mental information processing impairment, & passing out, as well as longer term signs such as beer belly. As others have said, it's not wise to drink on an empty stomach.

There's also the metabolic reasons for not drinking, mostly surrounding the interruption of the liver's function. It's highly advised not to drink alcohol with medication, for example.

I stay away since my body has a different make-up, being oriental. This can be observed through a red-flushed face and generally I don't feel anything pleasant from drinking. I just see "liquid courage" as something that makes you act without thinking. I have a friend who vapes weed, and I even stay away from that, since I feel it makes me do the opposite, making me think without acting.

Ask law enforcement officers about what substances causes the most damage to others/society, in $$$$, and a large portion would say alcohol, perhaps by a landslide, depending on the area (example). There are a few areas where opiods are on the rise that are gaining more attention though.

True alcoholics can't have just 11 oz, or a couple beers. They've experienced binge drinking, and it's very easy to drink as much as that when there is any sort of urge. I wouldn't expect some reformed alcoholic to be able to moderate or abstain by someone who has always abstained or moderated. There's a severe risk of relapse because there's no rebuilding the natural mental barriers that keep them from doing that much, once they broken them down and paved a way over them by repeatedly tracking over it. Their bodies have adapted to being more of an "alcohol receptacle" as well, taking more of it to get a certain level of satisfaction.

I didn't research anything specific to write this post, so nothing to cite, but you can verify with google search. Became interested and gained knowledge since I used to like watching chubbyemu's youtube videos and ran across this a long while ago: https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA72/AA72.htm

----

@bachman1961 I didn't specify what type of self-reward my friends do. They simply do fast food, as far as I as I know. I just abstain from self-reward culture in general, the concept of rewarding myself something for accomplishing something. I instead look at my purchases as practical solutions and also experiments, typically in the name of useful progress. I'd rather reward others, if I were fortunate enough to build a larger table to treat them. At the very least, I'm not building stronger/taller walls and blaming people on the other side for making living out in the big world difficult due to all the rules and higher standards to ensure a healthier society.

The rationalization people use to justify alcohol is hyperbole. I do think people should abstain. There's health benefits from the grain used to make the beer, just like wine has anti-oxidants from grapes. Fiber lowers the risk of heart disease, but I'll still be questioning the overall healthiness of something marketing this (e.g. bread). I suspect the negatives more than negate the positives. If I were to rank water, cola, sweet tea, milkshake, latte, beer, etc. there'd be a pointless fight regarding what's worst. I just avoid the fight and go for water, which is likely at/near the top.


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Actually sir, you are mistaken.  Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.


I grew up in Bolton, so I'm pretty familiar with Westminster and the surrounding area.

I amazed at that bylaw in Massachusetts.

Small towns are interesting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Nom, nom , nom.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ravewoofer said:


> I grew up in Bolton, so I'm pretty familiar with Westminster and the surrounding area.
> 
> I amazed at that bylaw in Massachusetts.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I never even heard of the place til I moved here. Didn't think there was anything outside 495. 

I'm pretty sure the majority of residents aren't even aware of it actually. A buddy that's a cop in town clued me in and I checked it out. Not like I'd abuse it or anything, nor does anyone else seem to, but it's nice to know. :thumbsup:


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

I've gotten a post-ride DUI. Speeding ticket while driving under the influence of mountain biking.
I'm a genuine "high performance driver"(too bad I can't mtb like I can drive!), but drive a low performance car and keep my foot out of it. Really racked them up when I was younger and drove sports cars. Not so much any more.
But put me behind the wheel on a fast-moving section of interstate with light traffic while jacked up on endorphins after a few hours of whipping around tight trails, constantly trying to maintain momentum and increase cornering speed...yeah. Grandpa mode is definitely off, and the areas where there *usually*(key word there) isn't any LEO presence is fair game.
That's what I thought this thread might be about before clicking on it!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

leeboh said:


> With a brewery and trails too.


Coincidentally enough, IMO, the best few miles run directly from my driveway to the brewery's. One of my go-to rides, and place is super dog-friendly.

I'm long past drinking too much and driving, but as far as having some beers along with riding, or working on trails/jumps/pumptracks, or just hanging, I'm typically in.


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## GR1822 (Jun 23, 2009)

ninjichor said:


> T
> I stay away since my body has a different make-up, being oriental. This can be observed through a red-flushed face and generally I don't feel anything pleasant from drinking. I just see "liquid courage" as something that makes you act without thinking. I have a friend who vapes weed, and I even stay away from that, since I feel it makes me do the opposite, making me think without acting.


I thought we were supposed to call you asian, and that oriental was an insult. 
Is there a "MTBR guide to race" thread somewhere?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

GR1822 said:


> I thought we were supposed to call you asian, and that oriental was an insult.
> Is there a "MTBR guide to race" thread somewhere?


Can't speak for ninjichor but when I lived in Japan, I read that somewhere so I asked one of my Japanese coworkers. He said something like "I am oriental. Why would I be insulted?"

I think the everything insults me thing is an American thing.

But, just looked it up on Wikipedia:

"The term Oriental is often used to describe objects from the Orient. However, given its Eurocentric connotations and shifting, inaccurate definition through the ages, it may be considered offensive as a label for people from East Asia."

But, here's an article that agrees more with my first thought:

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-tsuchiyama-oriental-insult-20160601-snap-story.html

"A funny thing I noticed is that my Caucasian colleagues, not my Asian colleagues, are most eager to remove Oriental from public discourse."


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

chazpat said:


> I think the everything insults me thing is an American thing.


Yes


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes “oriental” so that’s good enough for me. 

It’s not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member I’ve met prefers “Indian” to Native American.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

evasive said:


> I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes "oriental" so that's good enough for me.
> 
> It's not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member I've met prefers "Indian" to Native American.


When I worked on a reservation the natives would refer to themselves as "native." Since I have brown skin some of them would ask me, "Are you native?"


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

evasive said:


> I have one of these, but the only time I've ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). It's a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


O-M-G. It's about time this thread delivered something useful.

I was just lamenting how long it is until Xmas but then remembered that I have a wedding anniversary coming up.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

The only drawback is that it’s not watertight. If you put ice in it, you’ll get a leak. Freeze packs are the way to go.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

One Pivot said:


> The ways people try to rationalize drinking and driving is absolutely insane. Great, your idiot parents used to drive around while drinking. I used to drink 12 beers and drive to Tijuana from norcal. Never got caught, never had an accident, but jeez. I have the sense to at least admit that that was a TERRIBLE idea. People have half that amount of alcohol and kill themselves driving home across town.
> 
> There's no excuses. Have a beer after a ride, wait an hour, and you'll be fine. Any more beers or any less time and you're getting a DUI. Seriously, what do you think you have to gain by pushing it with DUI laws?


The same could be said for many routine violations of the law.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.

Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.

What I had to go through:

-6mo license suspension
-$700 for a hardship license to be able to get to work and back.
-6mo of an Ignition Interlock Device. HUGE pain in the ass. Had to pay monthly to have it "serviced."
-12hrs DUI class at my expense.
-160 hours community service at a recycling plant.
-3hr Victim Impact Panel. Had to write the judge an essay afterwards.
-10 day car impound at my house, $150.
-1 year of probation with random alcohol & drug screening ($50). Basically had to call a # everyday to see if my color was chosen. If it was, I had to be there by 11am otherwise it was considered a Violation Probation.
-Monthly probation visit @ $55/each time.
-3mo of "substance abuse counseling." It was bullshit and nothing more than a money grab. The place closed down like 2 months after I finished my sentence. Such bullshit.
-1 day in jail, credited time served because I spent 14hrs in jail after being arrested.
-$1700 fine

So, needless to say I barely drink anymore. Especially not right after a ride in the parking lot or anything. I can't even recall the last time I had a beer. Maybe one in the last 2 months? 

What completely blew my mind was the number of repeat offenders in the DUI class next to mine. They had more people there than in my first violation class. People with 2-4 DUI's. Just absolutely mind bottling.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Nat said:


> In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.
> 
> This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:


Sensible way to enjoy a brew IMO as well.

The lower % beers, some pilsner or lagers are fine with me too. Even if in the mood for a fuller taste, I like the idea of a point or few lower abv.

I was used to getting beer with groceries and until very recently, that was 3.2 beer versus the beverage store stops that have the standard issue or high test. Just about any time I bought beer at the grocery market, a kind soul if not the checkout person would chime in and say; " Hey, you know that's not the regular beer right ? " . 
I'd say *Yes, thank you* and be on my way.

I always thought it would sound 'preachy' if I told them I kind of prefer the lower abv just to be a bit on the safe side (even having one). Now the markets sell the regular abv as some law was passed a few months ago.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

chadbrochills said:


> Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.
> 
> Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.
> 
> ...


Takes a real man to admit such things. It's a sign of recognizing that responsibility and authenticity is more valuable than maintaining some front and being a coward, and not owning up to your own shameful decisions.

Got any more detail that you're willing to share, such as the emotions you felt in response to the various bullet points? This is interesting and potentially very useful information. I googled some of them, but find it hard to relate to the human-side of the story, told by someone who went through it involuntarily. Would help bring some realism/gravity to the situation that's seemingly treated so lightly by those who haven't received the wake-up call yet.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chadbrochills said:


> Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.
> 
> Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.
> 
> ...


Amazing and thanks for sharing, as stated it takes a real man to confess such life experiences. Sorry about your loss of your father. Your writing is nothing short of spectacular on here. Although, correct me if I'm wrong but your last word in that very in depth list of life experiences should be boggling, no? Not "bottling" which in this case of thread topic, we are all trying to avoid. 

Bringing on some lightheartedness to an otherwise depressing topic.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

evasive said:


> I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes "oriental" so that's good enough for me.
> 
> It's not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member I've met prefers "Indian" to Native American.


I don't really care one way or the other and I certainly don't wish to Insult anyone, but the term "native" as a designation is a little weird. It's not as if Indians grew out of the soil of North America -they originated out of Africa like any other **** sapien and eventually migrated across the Bering straight. In that sense, "First Nation" or similar is more accurate syntax.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

101 said:


> I don't really care one way or the other and I certainly don't wish to Insult anyone, but the term "native" as a designation is a little weird. It's not as if Indians grew out of the soil of North America -they originated out of Africa like any other **** sapien and eventually migrated across the Bering straight. In that sense, "First Nation" or similar is more accurate syntax.


They were the first race to widely inhabit America. Native Americans makes sense to me.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

chadbrochills said:


> Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.
> 
> Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.
> 
> ...


My younger brother got one in 2007 shorty after our dad passed. He was experiencing a bout of reckless behavior. He slid his Bronco off a twisty mountain road and hiked down to a gas station and asked some guys for help. They drove him back to the scene and called the CHP. Alll he had to do was call me and I'd have been there to pick him up in five minutes and we'd recover his rig in the morning.

I don't know what his BAC was but it was high enough that he received an enhancement. He got an attorney and it was knocked down but he still paid 10K. He paid off the classes and AA meetings with generous "donations", but I had to drive him to work for six months.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> They were the first race to widely inhabit America. Native Americans makes sense to me.


I mean, sure.... I guess. It just doesn't seem very accurate if you put it under the logical microscope. You're interpreting "native" as applying to race instead of species and then designating it further as which race got there first. It's not a big deal, but it's hardly accurate or without fault of logical analysis, it would never cut in the native vs. invasive definition applied to every other species, but, it's not worth arguing about either.


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## Roge (May 5, 2017)

fc said:


> [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
> View attachment 1247561


If you change those bottles to cans you reduce your chance of being harassed by someone with a star/shield/badge by about two thirds.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Thoreau said:


> I was subscribed to that theory some time ago too. Used to haul a fat can of Stella, Kilt Lifter, or Sapporo, along with a nice cigar, up the mountain and take some time to soak in the views and relax with those tasty vices. The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.
> 
> Good times =)
> 
> ...


 Awe man you have the cooler right with you. Start with your 100z wide mouth camelbak bag. Put in your beer can and 2 trays of ice. Top with cold water, good for at least 3 hrs of cold. Cheers.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

sfgiantsfan said:


> This just sounds like what you hear in AA, everyone is an alcoholic that drinks, anything, anytime. Just because you have a problem does not mean we all do. It is about making you put up your defenses and blame everyone for your failures. We that drink a few beers a week or after a ride are not the problem, you are.


Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.

Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

bingemtbr said:


> Wow. This thread is an eye opener. A few thoughts:
> 
> 2. Washington DC has a ZERO tolerance. If you blow anything other than a 0.00, you have won yourself a DUI. Wish this weren't true but it is.


cite? The way you talk about a breath test leads me to believe this is fallacy.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Should be nice and shook up and ready to open mid ride.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

ninjichor said:


> Takes a real man to admit such things. It's a sign of recognizing that responsibility and authenticity is more valuable than maintaining some front and being a coward, and not owning up to your own shameful decisions.
> 
> Got any more detail that you're willing to share, such as the emotions you felt in response to the various bullet points? This is interesting and potentially very useful information. I googled some of them, but find it hard to relate to the human-side of the story, told by someone who went through it involuntarily. Would help bring some realism/gravity to the situation that's seemingly treated so lightly by those who haven't received the wake-up call yet.


I have no qualms with admitting when I'm wrong, pretty much been that way my whole life, something my parents taught me at an early age. I was completely in the wrong, it's not ok to go out and get smashed then drive, hence why I didn't bother pleading not guilty, that's just denying it happened in the first place IMO.

Emotions? Hmmm, most of it was just a hassle TBH. Sitting in jail for 14hrs was not fun and somewhat scary at first. I'm a smaller guy, 5'7" 150lbs and I seriously though I was going to end up getting my ass kicked, thankfully that never happened. for The Victim Impact Panel was hard to sit through. Hearing people talk about how their loved ones were taken by drunk drivers was absolutely gut wrenching. Having an IID in my car, having to explain that to people made me feel like a loser, as did having to show up at the probation offices monthly. The substance abuse counseling, as I said before, seemed more like a money grab than anything else. They kept trying to get me to "confess" to having a problem with alcohol, meanwhile I wasn't much of a drinker before this incident, at all. Because I wouldn't admit to having a "problem", they kept extending the time I needed to be there until I got fed up with the BS and brought it to the attention of my PO and she put an end to their shenanigans. Community service was a cakewalk, just time consuming. I literally didn't have to do anything except make sure trash wasn't laying around on the ground, for like 7hrs a day.

Overall, it was a huge life lesson. One that I wish I hadn't gone through in the first place, but **** happens and the way you deal with it makes you a better person in the end.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Amazing and thanks for sharing, as stated it takes a real man to confess such life experiences. Sorry about your loss of your father. Your writing is nothing short of spectacular on here. Although, correct me if I'm wrong but your last word in that very in depth list of life experiences should be boggling, no? Not "bottling" which in this case of thread topic, we are all trying to avoid.
> 
> Bringing on some lightheartedness to an otherwise depressing topic.


Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

TwiceHorn said:


> Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.
> 
> Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.


My ex is in recovery, sober for 15 years. There is a reason why AA calls people like me "normies". They know that some of us can just not have a drink if we don't feel like it. I have never caught grief at a meeting from an alcoholic, and I have been to plenty of meetings.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

leeboh said:


> Awe man you have the cooler right with you. Start with your 100z wide mouth camelbak bag. Put in your beer can and 2 trays of ice. Top with cold water, good for at least 3 hrs of cold. Cheers.


Great idea, just make sure to thoroughly wash your beer can before you put it in your Camelbak (if you stashing the beer IN the bladder). We ride Porc Rim a couple times a year. Having a beer at "lunch rock" is a tradition. All of our crew had packed a beer to accompany lunch (we rode down from Hazard), and one of our crew had put the can in his bladder. To no one's surprise, he had a bit of an upset stomach that evening which everyone attributed to food poisoning-dirt, debris, possible mouse turds that were on the beer can in his bladder.

Lesson learned. To this day, I wash every beer can top before I imbibe. You have no idea if the factory, warehouse, delivery truck has any sanitization protocol. Better safe than sorry.

*"Lunch Rock" is where the bailout point is for Sand Flats Road.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

bingemtbr said:


> Great idea, just make sure to thoroughly wash your beer can before you put it in your Camelbak (if you stashing the beer IN the bladder). We ride Porc Rim a couple times a year. Having a beer at "lunch rock" is a tradition. All of our crew had packed a beer to accompany lunch (we rode down from Hazard), and one of our crew had put the can in his bladder. To no one's surprise, he had a bit of an upset stomach that evening which everyone attributed to food poisoning-dirt, debris, possible mouse turds that were on the beer can in his bladder.
> 
> Lesson learned. To this day, I wash every beer can top before I imbibe. You have no idea if the factory, warehouse, delivery truck has any sanitization protocol. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> *"Lunch Rock" is where the bailout point is for Sand Flats Road.


I really want to do that trick, but this was my hesitation. After hearing your story I may never try it.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Sidewalk said:


> My ex is in recovery, sober for 15 years. There is a reason why AA calls people like me "normies". They know that some of us can just not have a drink if we don't feel like it. I have never caught grief at a meeting from an alcoholic, and I have been to plenty of meetings.


Right. It's not AA's business to declare anyone an alcoholic or give them shizz about their drinking habits. If you have real trouble stopping drinking and staying stopped, and it's affecting your life, they'll be glad to help.

So why this comment?



> If you want to be demonized, go talk to a recovering alcoholic...those guys will really demonize you.


Maybe it's something specific to your ex, but recovered alcoholics tend not to judge or demonize others, anymore than the rest of us. Some are sicker than others though.

That said, it's not a centrally organized operation and there are apparently some groups that are way off the reservation in terms of what they tell people and how they treat them. I have never encountered such a group in 22 years of sobriety, but have heard they exist.

Sort of OT, but if anyone is in this thread thinking they may have a problem, AA offers a solution. And if it takes, and you do it right, it will vastly improve your life, beyond merely stopping drinking.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

TheDwayyo said:


> I really want to do that trick, but this was my hesitation. After hearing your story I may never try it.


There's really no purpose to it anyway. Can just as easily use a ziploc bag for those people who feel they just HAVE to have their beer freezing cold for whatever reason.

I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> There's really no purpose to it anyway. Can just as easily use a ziploc bag for those people who feel they just HAVE to have their beer freezing cold for whatever reason.
> 
> I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.


As I've mentioned I'm an after ride drinker and a light one at that, mid-ride beers have zero appeal for me. But a warm mid-ride beer? Not judging anyone else's preferences but that sounds about as non-appealing as it gets to me.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.


That's how I do it as well. I've only ever seen one person do it the other way.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> As I've mentioned I'm an after ride drinker and a light one at that, mid-ride beers have zero appeal for me. But a warm mid-ride beer? Not judging anyone else's preferences but that sounds about as non-appealing as it gets to me.


Decent beers don't need to be all that cold IMO. More of an issue with crappy beer, but those taste like **** cold or warm anyway.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Decent beers don't need to be all that cold IMO. More of an issue with crappy beer, but those taste like **** cold or warm anyway.


To each their own but there have been times where in that moment an ice cold Tecate was the best beer that I've ever tasted. In other moments not so much. I'm somewhat of a mild alcoholic in that I really don't want to give up my 1 (sometimes 2) beer a day habit but not enough of one to the crave one mid-ride. Among other reasons that would mean sacrificing my after ride brew and the thought of that is just too much to bear


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Not been to an AA meeting but FIL is a recovering alcoholic (been sober for 30yrs but still considers himself recovering), SIL is kinda recovering (more on that) and wife's biological dad and much of his side of the family are functioning alcoholics. Needless to say, when the wife starts to drink more my Spidey senses start going off.

Recently had the pleasure of reading about my SIL getting a DUI in our neighborhood in the local paper. She has been battling with it since 2007 when she was in college at ASU. She came back home in 2008/09 and was sober for just over a year, got her coin from AA and everything. Took her out to help her celebrate her sobriety but for some reason about a year later she fell off the wagon. This resulted in a number of fights/arguments with the sisters (there are 4 of them) over the years which culminated in 2016 when we were all together for our twin nephews First birthday. Apparently one night while we were all together the SIL in question disappeared with a cousin for the night. At about 4am the cousin woke up our BIL to help get the SIL in the room because she was literally so drunk she could not stand, walk and could barely talk. How they got back to the condo we were all staying at we have no clue.

Anyways, this resulted in huge fight between everyone a few months later. My wife and the SIL (biological sisters) rarely talked up until about Sept last year when they had some big blowup on the phone. The last part of the conversation I remember hearing was something to the sort of "Well you do what you want to. I will always love you and you can always count on US for a ride if you need it." Fast forward to about 2 months ago when we find out said SIL has been fired from her job (restaurant manager for casino) because she has been nasty to her employees and also caught drinking on the job. Few weekends later the wife is reading the local news online and sees a normal cryptic DUI/Arrest LEA report from the previous night, one sticks out of officers getting called to a crash at 3am. Report goes on to say a 33yr old white female crashed into a power pole in her blue bmw and was found to be almost completely incoherent. When asked what had happened, her response to the officer was "A drunken mistake".... right then my wife knew it was her sister. 

Here we are now a few months later, still waiting on the case to be adjudicated, her car is totaled, insurance has been dropped (agent is one of the sisters), and lawyer is hired for case and she is already out $4500! Bad thing is, talking with her at Easter she doesn't seem to see the issue with everything. She is ready to get back to her life, still apparently is drinking with a new/old boyfriend and is "looking" for work. Just sucks to see family members go through stuff like this and not realize that their own ego is not worth the time in cases like this. Literally she crashed maybe a mile from our house, while she may have gotten an ear full from us at one point or another we would have been more than happy to have picked her up and dropped her off at her place, or even had her stay with us. 

To go off what @TwiceHorn said... AA does offer a solution. Not necessarily the right one for everyone but it is one that works. My FIL is a perfect example of it, has participated as a sponsor for years and works an INCREDIBLY high stress job where he could easily slip back into it.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

bingemtbr said:


> 2. Washington DC has a ZERO tolerance. If you blow anything other than a 0.00, you have won yourself a DUI. Wish this weren't true but it is.





Schulze said:


> cite? The way you talk about a breath test leads me to believe this is fallacy.


My thoughts too.
That would be bigger news across the nation than just about any story I've seen this year.
Not sure how they'd keep that below radar.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

chadbrochills said:


> Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.


I got it ! 

Used that before myself and was corrected by those who apparently never seen the reference.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

bachman1961 said:


> My thoughts too.
> That would be bigger news across the nation than just about any story I've seen this year.
> Not sure how they'd keep that below radar.


I found this with a quick Google search:

https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html

.08 like most places.


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Man, you guys are making me feel like a full blown alcoholic. Sometimes I go for a good, hard ride just because it makes my nightly beer taste so much better. It's not nearly as enjoyable otherwise.
> 
> I do wait until I'm home and showered though. Usually.
> 
> Now I'm thirsty, going for a ride


Although I don't drink alcohol myself a trip to the pub is a frequent and popular feature of our weekly MTB rides for a beer or two although we cycle out and back so there are no cars. The drink drive limit here is low at 0.05% so people don't drink if they're driving.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

TwiceHorn said:


> Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.
> 
> Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.


Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chadbrochills said:


> Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.


Lol
I thought you made a typo. I've never seen that movie so it went right over my head. Pretty funny though.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.


Basically sums up the current informal judgement system in place for addicts.

Generally, the wisdom is "once a convict, always a convict." The mental barriers that prevent people from making questionable decisions are broken for good, unless they go through "trauma" to build up another mental barrier (e.g. don't wanna go through the DUI ordeal again).

Without mental barriers, like high moral integrity, what's left to keep people from making such decisions again are what those around them do. They're safer from relapse if conformed to people who have much higher standards, such as totally abstaining. Only takes 1 instance to trigger lapse in judgement, like what gregnash shared in his story about his SIL.

I basically see your description of that AA technique as them attempting to set up trauma through a "life-changing" event, to rebuild another mental barrier, which is far more reliable than relying on conforming to society. Going without re-creating that mental barrier wouldn't work to well on someone who's been desensitized, because of how individualism is praised, how privacy is fought for as a right and expected to be respected, and how punishment for crimes are only there for those caught in-the-act, or convicted after the fact. It's a difficult case to win vs someone who has "malicious intent" alone. I recall there was some history changing court decision that ruled in favor of cars back in the early 1900s, despite all the pedestrian deaths caused by collision with a vehicle, which basically made vehicle-operators have no fault in collisions (just accidents)...

*shrug* this is why I prefer a meritocracy. If only society offered incentives to those who uphold higher personal performance standards, and having "checks-and-balances" to crack down on corruption/cheating in the system. F this punishment system... the whole system of freedom based on supply and demand has turned out to be a weird experiment, where people are expected to do good, and there's a huge space of "tolerance" between good and illegal, dictated by how comfortable you are with angering others. The only incentive for one to do good, is to not deal with people getting personally angry at them, but people are conditioned to treat indecent things as normal, so they don't get angered so easily. It's not illegal to make others uncomfortable perhaps by invading their personal space and privacy (in public); what's there to deal with some troll who enjoys the anger, legally? This kind of injustice can just lead to creating another jerk who's drifting the just short of illegal, where people go "no more Mr/Mrs Nice Guy/Girl" and go vigilante with things that are just as dastardly. Deep down the converts are still nice, and may feel guilt and accept punishment, while the real jerks feel no shame and avoid punishment.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

TwiceHorn said:


> Maybe it's something specific to your ex, but recovered alcoholics tend not to judge or demonize others, anymore than the rest of us. Some are sicker than others though.
> 
> That said, it's not a centrally organized operation and there are apparently some groups that are way off the reservation in terms of what they tell people and how they treat them. I have never encountered such a group in 22 years of sobriety, but have heard they exist.
> 
> Sort of OT, but if anyone is in this thread thinking they may have a problem, AA offers a solution. And if it takes, and you do it right, it will vastly improve your life, beyond merely stopping drinking.


Just from my recollections, recovering alcoholics won't put up with your justifications. If you don't have a drinking problem, then they can see that and leave you alone. But if you have a problem and try to deny it, they will call you out on it. Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing. My memory is rough though since I haven't been in a while.

I personally never had negative experiences, but I think some of that was luck of the draw and I'm easy to spot as not being a drinker in a room full of AA people. I've also never been caught in a meeting full of evangelicals either, and I know those exist.

Totally by coincidence, the girl I am dating attends meetings on occasion. I don't personally think she is an addict, just a person who has a history of making poor decisions, sometimes they involved alcohol. But I won't tell her not to go. But she does seem to have a knack for finding BAD groups.

I'm definitely willing to be a resource for anyone who thinks they know someone who has a problem. I got **** out and flushed down the toilet due to alcoholism by another, by came out of it okay. Lots of painful memories (watching my motorcycle get repo'ed after returning from a deployment sucked), but proud that my ex is still sober to this day, and I regret nothing sticking with her through it all.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Klurejr said:


> I found this with a quick Google search:
> 
> https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html
> 
> .08 like most places.


Thank you for the clarity. 
Citing a link or source is something I used to do a lot on the motorcycle or firearms topics but I don't get into much tech savvy subjects these days.

For those that care to use that option, it offers some background on the facts or opinion and at least gives your perspective some backbone. In so many cases, I'd have the links readily there because I'd just been doing the reading or research.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Sidewalk said:


> Just from my recollections, recovering alcoholics won't put up with your justifications. If you don't have a drinking problem, then they can see that and leave you alone. But if you have a problem and try to deny it, they will call you out on it. Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing. My memory is rough though since I haven't been in a while.
> 
> I personally never had negative experiences, but I think some of that was luck of the draw and I'm easy to spot as not being a drinker in a room full of AA people. I've also never been caught in a meeting full of evangelicals either, and I know those exist.
> 
> ...


Yeah, if you aren't being honest with yourself, in whatever way, an AA person will be more than happy to help you realize the error of your ways, particularly if you have expressed an interest in stopping drinking.

For those reading, AA does require a belief in a higher power of your own conception. For a lot of folks, that winds up being a Christian God, for a lot of others, something else entirely. A few groups have taken that to an extreme to turn themselves essentially into a religious group. The ones I have experienced don't force anything, though. If your beliefs don't align, they aren't going to try to convert you, you'll find another group. If you keep going to that kind of group, I imagine they interpret that as wanting their version, and if you don't it's your fault for sticking around.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing.


Realize that many people can enjoy a beer with no negative effects. Enjoying life is positive.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> Realize that many people can enjoy a beer with no negative effects. Enjoying life is positive.


Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?

This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.

Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit... hard to imagine all the "overthinking" leading to conclusions used for justifying questionable actions.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ninjichor said:


> Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?
> 
> This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.
> 
> Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit...


Wow.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

life behind bars said:


> Wow.


Lol no kidding! who is the "bully"?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?
> 
> This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.
> 
> Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit--like the rogue road biker who so strongly believes that they have a right to be in the road, and runs on such logic to hate drivers and take up more space to establish their dominance, not realizing that this creates grudges that potentially endangers other roadies who are more responsibly self-conscious.


Holy moly! No offense ninjichor but you have issues. I said nothing bad or negative about you or anyone else and you accuse _*me*_ of being a school yard bully with no responsibilities? wtf?

And the road bike thing? Completely off topic but you're damn right I've a right to be in the road and it has nothing to do with "establishing dominance", it's about safety. Luckily the drivers I encounter realize that and are generally understanding and friendly.


----------



## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

life behind bars said:


> Wow.





jcd46 said:


> Lol no kidding! who is the "bully"?





J.B. Weld said:


> Holy moly! No offense ninjichor but you have issues. I said nothing bad or negative about you or anyone else and you accuse _*me*_ of being a school yard bully with no responsibilities? wtf?
> 
> And the road bike thing? Completely off topic but you're damn right I've a right to be in the road and it has nothing to do with "establishing dominance", it's about safety. Luckily the drivers I encounter realize that and are generally understanding and friendly.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201808/12-signs-toxic-parent

In the search for a proper term, preferably coined in a scientific study, this is where my search led me, regarding the quality of the symptom matching.

This topic I brought up is about figuring out the state-of-mind behind the belief regarding beer drinking being not a negative thing, but a positive thing. I wonder why people overlook this so easily. If drinkers drove home without a problem, I wouldn't doubt that it would be forgiven, but I worry about people's integrity regarding their response if damage was found on the car they drove.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit... hard to imagine all the "overthinking" leading to conclusions used for justifying questionable actions.


If you're not hurting yourself of affecting anyone else how is enjoying life not "legit?"


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201808/12-signs-toxic-parent


Look in the mirror.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you're not hurting yourself of affecting anyone else how is enjoying life not "legit?"


I'm questioning the logic being legit. It depends on being ignorant of the negatives.

Similar logic is employed in these examples:

Mtn biker playing music over speakers on popular trail. Someone comments on it, and person defensively says, "I've ridden this way for a while, passing many people, yet you're the only one who complained. You're a dick. Something's wrong with you."

Loud person uses foul language in a family restaurant that has kid friendly features. Someone confronts them on it, and person defensively says, "What I've said is relatively mild compared to where I came from. They'll be shocked if they're brought into the real world, where there's many worse than me. It's a good thing that they're getting broken in by someone who's not so bad."



J.B. Weld said:


> Look in the mirror.


Is this lack of self-defense an admittance of the fact? I have looked in the mirror--takes a thief to catch a thief. I have self-respect since I make an effort to improve myself. What about you?

There's many verses in the bible that condemn alcohol. There's even a teaching that covers being desensitized, which was worded as "seared conscious". The "healthy" use ofalcohol in the bible involved treating the sick/wounded, since it was often more sterile than fresh water during the time.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Similar logic is employed in these examples:


I guess you overlooked this part of my post-



J.B. Weld said:


> If you're not hurting yourself *or affecting anyone else* how is enjoying life not "legit?"


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ninjichor said:


> I'm questioning the logic being legit. It depends on being ignorant of the negatives.
> 
> Similar logic is employed in these examples:
> 
> ...


Dude, you're obviously not going to be swayed by logic.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> I guess you overlooked this part of my post-


Are you on-topic? It's about DUI, or at least combo'ing beer drinking with mountain biking.

If you're talking about having a beer alone in a safe location far away from anyone else, and have no one who cares for you or depends on you, okay. I was doubting such a scenario, but if you were to be quite specific with context, I could accept this. If you're having a beer, and being social with others, but not driving, I do not have much doubt that your influence is negative. Can just bring up a list of common symptoms of alcohol to show what others have to deal with...

Your post saying that beer is being not negative for many, but is positive, has no affect on others? Based on stories here, I wouldn't doubt that some AA person would try to make you out to be an a-hole for such. This is a negative effect on others, is it not?

The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger. Guns at least have some unique usefulness. Kids join the military at 18 and use guns. Some wise folk understood this and wanted to make it clear that we needed to accept the good with the bad, perhaps using this as reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. What about alcohol?

Got plenty negative about alcohol, such as it being terrible for underaged drinkers: https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh283/125-132.htm

Can you be more detailed on how alcohol is positive? Like how exactly does it make you enjoy life? Does the alcohol result in making you blissfully ignorant to negatives caused not only by it, but other poor decisions of yours?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The public stoning will be at 5 p.m. Brought to you by Taliban local 213.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Can you be more detailed on how alcohol is positive? Like how exactly does it make you enjoy life? Does the alcohol result in making you blissfully ignorant to negatives caused not only by it, but other poor decisions of yours?


You must be loads of fun at parties


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> Are you on-topic? It's about DUI.


...says the guy who said that road bikers who think they have a right to be on the road are asserting their dominance and hate drivers 

ok mods, I promise I'm done with this, will try to stay more on topic and be more fun loving from here on in.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

J.B., I care about you and if you just need someone to talk to, I'm here for you, man.

What say we grab a couple of beers and you can tell me all about it? But not at the trailhead. You're paying, btw.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

ninjichor said:


> The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.


I don't think that's legal, either.


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## rimtacos (Apr 23, 2019)

ninjichor said:


> The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.


Sir, this isn't your Grindr app.

It's MTBR.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> I found this with a quick Google search:
> 
> https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html
> 
> .08 like most places.


Well damn, I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I'm not from DC. Every time I visit this topic comes up and I've been told the some thing.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

ninjichor said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201808/12-signs-toxic-parent


Since this IS OT, I will say there can be bad parenting and abuse without any Alcohol, what so ever.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.


That's not AA. Drug and alcohol counselors have their place, but they don't teach AA and that's not an AA meeting.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ninjichor said:


> the legal drinking age is 21 in the us. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.





evasive said:


> i don't think that's legal, either.


lol


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

gregnash said:


> This is actually true in most states. Just like bicycles are considered a standard mode of transportation, you are "supposed" to abide by the laws of the road when riding on one. So, signaling before turns, stopping at stop signs/lights, yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. all apply. Most officers will not harass you unless you do something stupid like blow through an intersection/stop light/etc. But that is completely up to them.
> 
> The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.
> 
> ...


I have no problem with people drinking in the parking lot as long as it doesn't get out of hand and people aren't driving. I play softball in a beer league, but it's limited to three Coors Lites over two hours.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

This site, for whatever reason, seems to attract a lot of wackos who appear, by the length of their posts, to be getting paid by the word.

Ninjichor is just the latest weirdo troll. Put him on ignore; life will be better.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vader said:


> I have no problem with people drinking in the parking lot as long as it doesn't get out of hand and people aren't driving. I play softball in a beer league, but it's limited to three Coors Lites over two hours.


Interesting... We have a beer league here in town, mind you I drive 45 minutes away to play. League we have here is U-trip vs. me playing in another town for ASA. Reason I don't play here is because while it is a "beer league" with same rules, most of the guys that show up end up having a 12'r in the parking lot prior to the game, normally out of sight of most of the blues. Add to that the fact that the blues are paid maybe $15/game a night and most don't want to deal with the hassle, yeah is someone is blatantly drunk they will toss them but otherwise its game on. So now we have a U-trip league, with most of the guys being over 200lbs with big beer bellies, and more than a few beers in them, so yeah that makes for a lot of fun when you have a ball screaming at you regardless of position played (its amazing how much momentum a ball can get when someone's entire body mass is put behind the ball).

So these guys will play a game, maybe two then head back to the parking lot to have another round. Still think thats safe? Mind, your interpretation of "getting out of hand" may be different than most. This is where, as some have explained, people get into the problem/habit of "oh I'll just have one more. We are going to be BSing for a while longer" only to leave completely buzzed.

This happened enough in the last couple years in my league that I play in that city rec. dept. ended up instituting a "no alcohol in the parking lot" rule, so much so that RPD and WCSO actually started doing sweeps of the parking lots at random. The fields are near the local university too and covered under the universities jurisdiction as well so they eventually will get called to do a sweep. The league/fields do still serve beers on AT THE FIELD but you are limited to one beer period. There were enough issues (fights, dv calls, dd, etc.) that they actually put it out at the coaches meeting this year that the concession stand may stop serving alcohol all together next season.

While doing so will not stop this from happening it will continue to limit it. I am all for having a beer during/after a ride, game, whatever just be conscious of your decision to do so if you are not at a local pub, restaurant, or at home. **** yesterday I got done with a 12mile ride and it was nice and warm out. After my buddy left my place I decided to ride down to the local pub and have a pint, no food just sit on the patio, relax for a bit, enjoy the sun and have a pint. Another buddy that I passed while on the trail was there so we chatted for a bit, I got my farmhouse red ale (pubs own recipe) which has a 7.5% ABV. I was there for little over an hour sipping the beer and when I paid and went to leave on my bike I felt the buzz. Luckily I live all of 4 blocks from the pub so I was able to walk my bike home with some music playing on my phone. Sure I got some weird looks from people still wearing my mtb gear and bumping some tunes on my phone but really I was buzzed enough that I knew as soon as I started to pedal.

No I wasn't staggering or anything enough though that motor function was slightly impaired. Between the ride, lack of food afterward and the tasty red I am sure that if an officer took my rating I would have blown close to a .08.

And that was from 1 beer, just 1! This is why I say don't do it.
And @blatant, I ain't paid by the word, just verbose. Or so I am told!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

gregnash said:


> Interesting... We have a beer league here in town, mind you I drive 45 minutes away to play. League we have here is U-trip vs. me playing in another town for ASA. Reason I don't play here is because while it is a "beer league" with same rules, most of the guys that show up end up having a 12'r in the parking lot prior to the game, normally out of sight of most of the blues. Add to that the fact that the blues are paid maybe $15/game a night and most don't want to deal with the hassle, yeah is someone is blatantly drunk they will toss them but otherwise its game on. So now we have a U-trip league, with most of the guys being over 200lbs with big beer bellies, and more than a few beers in them, so yeah that makes for a lot of fun when you have a ball screaming at you regardless of position played (its amazing how much momentum a ball can get when someone's entire body mass is put behind the ball).
> 
> So these guys will play a game, maybe two then head back to the parking lot to have another round. Still think thats safe? Mind, your interpretation of "getting out of hand" may be different than most. This is where, as some have explained, people get into the problem/habit of "oh I'll just have one more. We are going to be BSing for a while longer" only to leave completely buzzed.
> 
> ...


Our league is less formal but very competitive. There are no umpires, and since the ball field is less than a mile away, I ride my bike over. Sometimes, the games are in the next town over five miles away and wont drink.

Yesterday, a friend and I went to a punk rock show with eight bands. Yeah, we were drinking in the parking lot and we put away three 15 packs of Natty Lite. The cops rolled by and said we were cool as long as we weren't blatant and weren't driving. His wife was driving so game on.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Nichor, please stop posting in this thread. I am saying that as a Moderator.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

rimtacos said:


> Based upon this post, you could really use a drink.


At least one.


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

life behind bars said:


> The public stoning will be at 5 p.m. Brought to you by Taliban local 213.


Most definitely LOL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

rimtacos said:


> Based upon this post, you could really use a drink.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> At least one.


ninjichor's intoxicant of choice seems to be his own opinions. I think he's had enough.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

ninjichor said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201808/12-signs-toxic-parent
> 
> In the search for a proper term, preferably coined in a scientific study, this is where my search led me, regarding the quality of the symptom matching.
> 
> This topic I brought up is about figuring out the state-of-mind behind the belief regarding beer drinking being not a negative thing, but a positive thing. I wonder why people overlook this so easily. If drinkers drove home without a problem, I wouldn't doubt that it would be forgiven, but I worry about people's integrity regarding their response if damage was found on the car they drove.


One can derive pleasure from the taste of food or drink. Pleasure generally is a positive thing. I can have a beer or glass of wine and enjoy the taste, irrespective of that fact it contains alcohol. Certainly one must be mindful of the amount consumed.

The whole point of freedom is to allow a spectrum between what is considered good (optimal) and illegal and allow people to operate in their comfort zone within that range. While zero alcohol may be optimal, some alcohol can be consumed without harm. The zero alcohol mandate has been tried. It seemed to not work so well.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Out of curiosity, I purchased a Breathalizer.
I'm 180# and two 5oz glasses of red wine had me blowing .05 BAC. 
Since i'm a CDL holder my legal limit is .04 even when i'm operating a passenger vehicle. 

I'll keep testing but it appears that I can enjoy a single drink with a dinner out and be safe. Which is plenty for me and 1-2 is my preferred amount anyways. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Vader said:


> Yesterday, a friend and I went to a punk rock show with eight bands. Yeah, we were drinking in the parking lot and we put away three 15 packs of Natty Lite. .


Am I reading this right? You guys drank 45 beers between two of you in one evening? How did you not die?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Am I reading this right? You guys drank 45 beers between two of you in one evening? How did you not die?


Cuz 4.2% is barely beer.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Nat said:


> Am I reading this right? You guys drank 45 beers between two of you in one evening? How did you not die?


Nattys are low octane, we probably handed out four or five, and that was from noon to 10PM


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vader said:


> Nattys are low octane, we probably handed out four or five, and that was from noon to 10PM


LOL... are you in college?! Did your frat brothers show up to haze you?! God I remember those days, and they were less than 20yrs ago! Sitting on the grass in front of the house, tipping back Natty Ice, Red Dog, Coors/Bud Lite... LOL There were more than a few occasions that the similar happened and I am amazed I survived. Hell at one of my brothers bachelor party a month ago I got introduced to a new good called "Ice"... think of it like Easter Egg hunting for adults, but with Smirnoff Ice. Everyone gets a few, say 3-5 each, and you run around your place you are staying and hide them. Should you be the lucky contestant that finds one, well you much take a knee and chugg! No one there to witness the occasion, video documentation is required to be sent to one other participant in the house. You have never seen grown men more scared to open a cupboard, pantry or go take a leak than that weekend. I am still recovering today.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

gregnash said:


> LOL... are you in college?! Did your frat brothers show up to haze you?! God I remember those days, and they were less than 20yrs ago! Sitting on the grass in front of the house, tipping back Natty Ice, Red Dog, Coors/Bud Lite... LOL There were more than a few occasions that the similar happened and I am amazed I survived. Hell at one of my brothers bachelor party a month ago I got introduced to a new good called "Ice"... think of it like Easter Egg hunting for adults, but with Smirnoff Ice. Everyone gets a few, say 3-5 each, and you run around your place you are staying and hide them. Should you be the lucky contestant that finds one, well you much take a knee and chugg! No one there to witness the occasion, video documentation is required to be sent to one other participant in the house. You have never seen grown men more scared to open a cupboard, pantry or go take a leak than that weekend. I am still recovering today.


No. I'll be 49 in less than two months. My friend and his wife just built a house and we spent four hours moving stuff to storage, then it was off to the show. I've known them for nearly 40 years and it had been a while since I'd seen them.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

^^^ Well, if you are dealing with "facts", moderate amounts of alcohol are not harmful to most people. Yes there are exceptions. Drinking too much alcohol will kill a person...just like drinking too much water will do.

Sorry, not buying your idea of utopia. Wearing monitors to track one's progress toward an incentive? Screw that. 

"Perceived money saved on predicted costs"? Now that's funny.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I wish I had a beer to enjoy with my popcorn.


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## rimtacos (Apr 23, 2019)

ninjichor said:


> I instead use such dissatisfaction to try and improve the world around me, rather than use my efforts selfishly.


FYI, you're not "improving the world around you" with your strident posts here.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Holy crap, "Big Brother" just got a stiffy with your last paragraph, that sh!t is just scarey!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Vader said:


> Nattys are low octane, we probably handed out four or five, and that was from noon to 10PM


Okay, so only like twenty beers each...

If I tried to drink like that I'd either be out cold or too bloated to move.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Nat said:


> Okay, so only like twenty beers each...
> 
> If I tried to drink like that I'd either be out cold or too bloated to move.


I have a high tolerance which is why I don't drink to catch a buzz. It's not healthy and is a waste of money. But, a couple times a year, usually around a body of water in 100 degree heat, I'll drink enough water beers with my brother to paralyze a small country like Liechtenstein.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Suns_PSD said:


> Out of curiosity, I purchased a Breathalizer.
> I'm 180# and two 5oz glasses of red wine had me blowing .05 BAC.
> Since i'm a CDL holder my legal limit is .04 even when i'm operating a passenger vehicle.
> 
> ...


Whoopee ! Excellent marksmanship. 
When a subject demonstrates such behavior as testing or monitoring one's own 'constitution' for handling drink to better know the limits or effects, this is really cool. Well done!

:thumbsup:



Vader said:


> No. I'll be 49 in less than two months. My friend and his wife just built a house and we spent four hours moving stuff to storage, then it was off to the show. I've known them for nearly 40 years and it had been a while since I'd seen them.


Wow.
I think with some energy to burn off or doing some physical work, I used to be able to put some of the lighter abv away but even that was 30 or more years ago. 2 beers an hour over 10 -12 hours doesn't sound as bad and food would sure help. I could never go that long with out eating. 
Still, 360 oz of anything seems like I'd either drown or my bladder would explode.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

bachman1961 said:


> Whoopee ! Excellent marksmanship.
> When a subject demonstrates such behavior as testing or monitoring one's own 'constitution' for handling drink to better know the limits or effects, this is really cool. Well done!
> 
> :thumbsup:
> ...


Food intake for the day was two tacos, a burrito, a sub sandwich and a bacon double cheeseburger. I usually don't put that kind of food away but we were moving crap and I built up an appetite. I think I weigh in at a lean 175 at 5'11".


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Vader said:


> Food intake for the day was two tacos, a burrito, a sub sandwich and a bacon double cheeseburger. I usually don't put that kind of food away but we were moving crap and I built up an appetite. I think I weigh in at a lean 175 at 5'11".


Oh MAN &#8230; !!

Now I'm hungry AND thirsty.

:cryin:


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Nat said:


> Okay, so only like twenty beers each...
> 
> If I tried to drink like that I'd either be out cold or too bloated to move.


He said it was ten hours... Two beers an hour with a glass of water and a snack every other hour is pretty easy to do sitting by a pool or something nice like that. Not something you should aspire to, but it doesn't require frat membership either.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

TheDwayyo said:


> He said it was ten hours... Two beers an hour with a glass of water and a snack every other hour is pretty easy to do sitting by a pool or something nice like that. Not something you should aspire to, but it doesn't require frat membership either.


I couldn't do it.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

TheDwayyo said:


> He said it was ten hours... Two beers an hour with a glass of water and a snack every other hour is pretty easy to do sitting by a pool or something nice like that. Not something you should aspire to, but it doesn't require frat membership either.


also easier in a pool bar, saves having to get up and go to the p!sser all the time


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Nat said:


> I couldn't do it.


Not with that attitude.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yup lots of factors put into play that allowed for the large consumption amount. Also, many are assuming that he did not "break the seal" the entire time, which I am guessing is incorrect.

Quick piece of trivia for everyone that I recently learned.

*What is one piece of equipment that 99% of officers own that is not part of their normal duty kit (e.g. not a firearm, magazine, flashlight, etc.)????*


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Yup lots of factors put into play that allowed for the large consumption amount. Also, many are assuming that he did not "break the seal" the entire time, which I am guessing is incorrect.
> 
> Quick piece of trivia for everyone that I recently learned.
> 
> *What is one piece of equipment that 99% of officers own that is not part of their normal duty kit (e.g. not a firearm, magazine, flashlight, etc.)????*


Beers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

Bottle opener?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

gregnash said:


> Yup lots of factors put into play that allowed for the large consumption amount. Also, many are assuming that he did not "break the seal" the entire time, which I am guessing is incorrect.
> 
> Quick piece of trivia for everyone that I recently learned.
> 
> *What is one piece of equipment that 99% of officers own that is not part of their normal duty kit (e.g. not a firearm, magazine, flashlight, etc.)????*


Empty 3 liter bottle?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

TheDwayyo said:


> Not with that attitude.


Lol.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Empty 3 liter bottle?


Stadium Pal™?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

More importantly, what bands were playing?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I will give a hint... This piece of equipment is something they *OWN* themselves, not part of their duty kit!

I will report back later this afternoon (like 2pm/3pm PST) and try and grab peoples answers to see if anyone got it.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

gregnash said:


> I will give a hint... This piece of equipment is something they *OWN* themselves, not part of their duty kit!


Their brain?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Speedos?


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Mirrored Raybans Aviators.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Nunchucks?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

A rubber band?


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

gregnash said:


> I will give a hint... This piece of equipment is something they *OWN* themselves, not part of their duty kit!
> 
> I will report back later this afternoon (like 2pm/3pm PST) and try and grab peoples answers to see if anyone got it.


This is the most organized thread high-jacking I've ever seen.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Cornfield said:


> Nunchucks?


LMAO!!! That was my guess!

Second guess is breathalizer (kinda keep on topic). If not that, I'd guess zipties.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

TheDwayyo said:


> This is the most organized thread high-jacking I've ever seen.


LOL... I promise you it is related.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

gregnash said:


> LOL... I promise you it is related.


The










is killing me.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mustache?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

A printed copy of the backwards alphabet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

mbmb65 said:


> A printed copy of the backwards alphabet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Someone has been through the test..

They also make you count backwards.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Breath Mints


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Cornfield said:


> Their brain?


I am thinking the same thing, or just the ability to view and quickly asses a situation.



mbmb65 said:


> A printed copy of the backwards alphabet.


I was the Designate Driver for a vehicle after my Brothers Bachelor Party. I had been drinking on the river during the day, but I stopped in the afternoon and started chugging water. When we got to dinner I continued drinking water and knew by the end of dinner I had flushed my system and was in shape to operate a vehicle. Some of the guys who were DD's earlier in the day had moved on to drinking. I was driving a vehicle I was not used to and failed to turn on the headlights when leaving the parking lot and was lit up immediately (not sure if the state trooper was just hanging out by that restaurant, or was just driving by).
It was late and I pulled into a McDonalds parking lot, fully lit, but the store was closed already, so no audience.

I was asked to exit the vehicle, the trooper had a plain clothes person along observing him and he gave me the full gambit of the tests. I passed them all with flying colors, but that dang backwards alphabet took a lot of concentration, that is nearly a trick question.

Finally he had me blow the Breathalyzer and then told me I was free to go. I failed to ask what I blew. He told after that I was pulled over for the headlights, /facepalm, and that when I rolled the window down all he could smell was booze coming out of the car, which I do not doubt, there were 5 adult males in the car I was responsible for getting home safe, and none of them were fit to drive.

Thinking ahead and planning a Designated Driver is a requirement in my book if you do not plan on a taxi or an Uber(my story was about 13 years ago, so no Uber back then).


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

I don't think I'd do any better at the backwards alphabet sober vs. inebriated.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

When I was a little kid, my great-uncle used to entertain me with his ZYXs. He’d sing them as confidently as I did my ABCs. Only later did I realize why.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

gregnash said:


> LOL... I promise you it is related.


A pen for you to follow with your eyes.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

The answer is "the nose."

And I didn't know any agency still used a backward alphabet. It's nearly impossible and I know it's no longer part of the standard field sobriety tests.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Curveball said:


> A pen for you to follow with your eyes.


Ahhh the old, gaze nystagmus test. Was thinking the same thing, but it might be too obvious.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nat said:


> Mustache?


This was the best answer!!!



mbmb65 said:


> A printed copy of the backwards alphabet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





evasive said:


> When I was a little kid, my great-uncle used to entertain me with his ZYXs. He'd sing them as confidently as I did my ABCs. Only later did I realize why.


These two were a close second!!

*The real answer* is a breathalyzer. 
Most officers own their own breathalyzer that they have at home. You have never come across any profession that has a ZERO tolerance than all forms of law enforcement. You want a career killer, get convicted of a DUI while an officer of the law, regardless of on duty or off.

Talking with some of the officers that I work with, multiple have stated that they have had a late night of partying with family and friends only to wake up the next morning to go to their shift. Most get trained that if it has been *less than* 12hrs since their last drink and they have not had any water or food in that time, they need to test themselves. One officer, a bigger guy, said he got up for his shift one day and felt perfectly fine. When he looked at the clock he thought he was outside the timeframe but wasn't sure so he tested himself. He still blew a .02. While this doesn't seem like much, remember they have a ZERO Tolerance, he knew if he randomly go screened for whatever reason, it would be an automatic dismissal. Thank god for sick time and/or swapping shifts with buddies.

Same goes for the zero tolerance for the civilian side of LEA when it comes to drug usage, especially things like marijuana (in NV this is regardless of state law legality). You can pee dirty from CBD usage and it is an automatic suspension for non-sworn with required usage of sick and/or annual leave until an investigation is done.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

gregnash said:


> Same goes for the zero tolerance for the civilian side of LEA when it comes to drug usage, especially things like marijuana (in NV this is regardless of state law legality). You can pee dirty from CBD usage and it is an automatic suspension for non-sworn with required usage of sick and/or annual leave until an investigation is done.


I'm not LEA, but where i work we were advised to not partake of the so-called "CBD burgers" that some places are marketing, to avoid getting popped on a drug test.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

the one ring said:


> I'm not LEA, but where i work we were advised to not partake of the so-called "CBD burgers" that some places are marketing, to avoid getting popped on a drug test.


Yeah, I have talked with multiple shops locally about non-THC related CBD products as there are plenty out there that will tout themselves as "Clean" CBD. I have heard everything from the process used to extract the CBD from the hemp to other items (certain varieties, etc.) the fact of the matter is that there is no real conclusive evidence that says, if you do XYZ you will be clean. So while I realize there are plenty of benefits of CBD i just stay away. Too much of a risk.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

Nat said:


> Okay, so only like twenty beers each...
> 
> If I tried to drink like that I'd either be out cold or too bloated to move.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

^lol

Look for a building on fire!


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

jcd46 said:


> Someone has been through the test..
> 
> They also make you count backwards.


I have been. More than once. I never received a citation. And honestly, I was never asked to recite the alphabet backwards. I'd likely laugh, and ask the officer to go first. Counting, I can do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

twd953 said:


> View attachment 1249367


Ha! That's how I feel after two pints.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I had the pen/eye test on a bobbing boat on a lake. It was no big deal since I was sober.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Yeah, I have talked with multiple shops locally about non-THC related CBD products as there are plenty out there that will tout themselves as "Clean" CBD. I have heard everything from the process used to extract the CBD from the hemp to other items (certain varieties, etc.) the fact of the matter is that there is no real conclusive evidence that says, if you do XYZ you will be clean. So while I realize there are plenty of benefits of CBD i just stay away. Too much of a risk.


There are benefits of CBD? You mean that you get to tell your friends you take CBD?


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

TheDwayyo said:


> There are benefits of CBD? You mean that you get to tell your friends you take CBD?


CBD. The new Vegan or Crossfit or Keto. Must immediately tell everyone about how great it is.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

93EXCivic said:


> CBD. The new Vegan or Crossfit or Keto. Must immediately tell everyone about how great it is.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

TheDwayyo said:


> If you take CBD and are also gluten free I think Obama gives you a billboard in Times Square.


What if you take CBD are on a vegan, keto, gluten free diet and do crossfit? Do you get a blimp? And which do you tell people about first?


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I've switched to CBD oil in my shocks and forks. Truly a mellow ride.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

93EXCivic said:


> What if you take CBD are on a vegan, keto, gluten free diet and do crossfit? Do you get a blimp? And which do you tell people about first?


That's the exact scenario the emergency broadcast system was created for!


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