# EWR Proto's!!



## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

So stoked that EWR is back! Check out the proto's on their site: www.ewrbikes.com
They're riding at 1pm at Wissahickon Park. Wish i could be there. I'll just have to trudge through the snow here in Northern New England.. (Pic poached off of EWR site.)


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

khenry44 said:


> So stoked that EWR is back! Check out the proto's on their site:
> They're riding at 1pm at Wissahickon Park. Wish i could be there. I'll just have to trudge through the snow here in Northern New England.. (Pic poached off of EWR site.)


Looks Freakin Great!

I can't make it out today either 

I can't wait for a full ride report.


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## disease (Nov 27, 2007)

We need more light and nimble steel singletrack bikes with high bottom brackets! I like the shallow angle seatstays for a nice compliant rear triangle. The sloping top tube is similar to the Jeff Jones idea(or is the Jones frame simlar to EWR?). I have to say that Jones' solution is more elegant. Why the cut and welded down tube? It makes me nervous. Why not simply bend it?


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## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

*EWR then Jones*



diseaseThe sloping top tube is similar to the Jeff Jones idea(or is the Jones frame simlar to EWR?). [/QUOTE said:


> In this case, Jones is similar to EWR (as my circa woods frame serial would indicate with its '94 for 1994.) A lot of designs have taken inspiration from it since (whether knowingly or unknowingly.)
> 
> Here's what Jay had to say in regards to the first test this past weekend. Sounds good to me:
> 
> ...


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

Hi,

Very nice. Chapeau! 

....but I am confused now. I thought the classic EWRs were Grove made? Grove isn't around anymore, or at least not at the scale like back then. Who is building them now? Please, teach me.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Elevation12 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Very nice. Chapeau!
> 
> ....but I am confused now. I thought the classic EWRs were Grove made? Grove isn't around anymore, or at least not at the scale like back then. Who is building them now? Please, teach me.


they are still made in PA but by these guys http://www.bilenky.com/Home.html


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

I have seen them and they look pretty cool. I was at Bilenky last week.


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

The boys and girls at Bilenky do fantastic work...they will carry on the EWR torch with pride. 

Good luck Jay and Ken!

cheers,

rody


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

*EWR Demo Rides*

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to drop a line to all of you fine supporters and let you know we'll be doing a lot more demo rides in the very near future. I am actually stripping down the proto's tonight to get them media blasted and powder coated, and once they are done, we'll be posting demo rides on our DIRT Page. So keep checking the site.

Hope Don, Jay and I see you out there.

Thanks,

[email protected]
www.ewrbikes.com

Here's a couple pics of the protos for you to salivate over...


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## CJones (Aug 3, 2004)

Wow, you guys are rolling at a breakneck pace -- from geometry numbers to testing prototypes in record time! The new bikes look awesome.

I thought you were keeping who was manning the torches on the down low, but if it is indeed Bilenky, that's really impressive. They do awesome work.

Please keep the updates coming!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

khenry44 said:


> In this case, Jones is similar to EWR (as my circa woods frame serial would indicate with its '94 for 1994.) A lot of designs have taken inspiration from it since (whether knowingly or unknowingly.)


Looks pretty neat, but uh, I guess somebody needs to say that the sloping top tube (and correspondingly flattish seat stays)was done back in ~1980 by Charlie Cunningham and by many others (mostly Canadian builders) long before 1994...


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Looks pretty neat, but uh, I guess somebody needs to say that the sloping top tube (and correspondingly flattish seat stays)was done back in ~1980 by Charlie Cunningham and by many others (mostly Canadian builders) long before 1994...


CC invented the internet


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## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

*Word Travels Fast!!*

Article on DirtRag Mainpage!!

read it here


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

J Ro said:


> CC invented the internet


he did invent(or at least was using way before) what you claim as being first on EWR.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I am a big CC fan, but I think that the claim here relates to a particular form of sloping top tube design i.e. with the intersecting tube from the seat tube for support. This design was used on the Mantis X/Valkrie and the Talon bikes (and undoubtedly some French bike from the 19th century) 

I am pretty psyched about these new EWR bikes - I would like to try them in the technical riding around me!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I am a big CC fan, but I think that the claim here relates to a particular form of sloping top tube design i.e. with the intersecting tube from the seat tube for support. This design was used on the Mantis X/Valkrie and the Talon bikes (and undoubtedly some French bike from the 19th century)


A Valkyrie? Jones doesnt have that tube...? Whats a Talon?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> A Valkyrie? Jones doesnt have that tube...? Whats a Talon?


Jones doesn't have the tube instead the top tube bends hence the comments about it being a more elegant solution (I disagree here)

You wish you had a Talon!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Jones doesn't have the tube instead the top tube bends hence the comments about it being a more elegant solution (I disagree here)
> 
> You wish you had a Talon!


uh, ok. I guess. 

new sig: desperately seeking a Talon or a Delta V :lol:


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## disease (Nov 27, 2007)

bushpig said:


> Jones doesn't have the tube instead the top tube bends hence the comments about it being a more elegant solution (I disagree here)
> 
> You wish you had a Talon!


I think that Jones' decision not to cut and weld the down tube is the more elegant solution. Leaving the down tube straight, or even bending it would be cleaner, and probably stronger as well. Jones uses a secondary top tube to support his seat mast, as EWR does. Jones' support tube gives the seat mast some ability to flex, while EWR fixes it rigidly. I think it is a matter of rider preference which is better, but the Jones method allows him to avoid cutting or welding onto the down tube, by joining his secondary support tube to the head tube.


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## jdrp_stuntboy (Jul 21, 2004)

*Jay's reply*

This is a good thread.

The Valkerie and many other designs out there were inspirations of mine, like the SE Quadangle BMX bike. Back then, I was a youthful engineering student and I loved the non-traditional designs. However, what I didn't like about all MTBs of back then was the fact that they all had similar "west coast MTB" geometry and construction technique -- 17-18" rears, slack seat and head angles, low BBs, and they were whippy like road bikes. Heck, they were built like road bikes with -- high top tubes. I hated that when I would stand and sprint on my Univega Alpina Pro (top o' the line MTB racer back in the 80s), the bike would flex a ton, enough to shift the chain. Sprinting it sucked because the chainstays were so long and flexy, and the short top tube and slack angles put the bars in my lap. For climbing you had to stay seated and just spin -- boring. They did haul ass downhill, though... I guess I wanted it to ride like a BMX bike.

You see, back then, to me, mountain biking was all about clearing big ass logs, using the gears to get higher speeds to jump higher, slamming over rocks, etc. Seems like normal stuff, but back then there were just a whole lot of bikes really built for aggressive riding. I was really into trials, too. SO, I always sketched bikes with higher BBs, shorter rears, longer fronts and steeper angles. I wanted it to ride like a big BMX bike, so it needed to be sloping like a BMX bike. Yadda yada -- lots of influences out there, but when I got around to actually making bikes, we were really one of the first ones doing short rear end (15.9") frames with aggro steep head tube style back then. The only other short rear bike I can think of was the Ibis Mt Trials 26/24. It was whippy as hell, too -- I rode them. Anyway, EWR bikes had many influences, but I think geometry-wise EWR bikes were very influential going forward to this day. Look at the modern dirt jumper, and look at the EWR bike, relatively unchanged since 1991.

I like the Jones bike. I would not bend our down tube, though -- I like the sharp angular look staying consistent, and it is stronger that trying to bend it at a sharp angle due to the stretching of material @ the top of the bend.

I hope this clarifies what Kris Henry said, and what I said in the DR article.

Thanks for reading,

Jay de Jesus
ewrbikes.com
[email protected]


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

jdrp_stuntboy said:


> This is a good thread.
> 
> The Valkerie and many other designs out there were inspirations of mine, like the SE Quadangle BMX bike. Back then, I was a youthful engineering student and I loved the non-traditional designs. However, what I didn't like about all MTBs of back then was the fact that they all had similar "west coast MTB" geometry and construction technique -- 17-18" rears, slack seat and head angles, low BBs, and they were whippy like road bikes. Heck, they were built like road bikes with -- high top tubes. I hated that when I would stand and sprint on my Univega Alpina Pro (top o' the line MTB racer back in the 80s), the bike would flex a ton, enough to shift the chain. Sprinting it sucked because the chainstays were so long and flexy, and the short top tube and slack angles put the bars in my lap. For climbing you had to stay seated and just spin -- boring. They did haul ass downhill, though... I guess I wanted it to ride like a BMX bike.
> 
> ...


you say "back then" a few times, but it seems like youre comparing your 90s stuff to early 80s stuff?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

When can we try these out in NYC?


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Now all you need to do is get Jeff Lenosky away from Giant and get JJ Gregorovich out of retirement (I assume) and onto EWR bikes, and you're set!


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

*The EWR's are coming.....*

Taken 01.11.08.

They are coming....


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

oh boy..... :eekster: 


just happened to breeze over to this forum section and see this... and am I glad I did! I'd love to try to get my hands on one of these! :thumbsup: 

very nice work!


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## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

*Call/email Kenn or Jay!!*

Give Kenn or Jay a call / email. I'm sure they would love to talk to you about another sale.

check them out here.


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks khenry44, I appreciate that. 

Yeah, give us a call! We here at EWR have been really busy lately answering emails and such, and have found it hard to get to the forums this last week or so. Sorry about that. But we have been trying to keep everyone updated as much as possible.

Don't hesitate to call, or email. We'll get back to you directly and quickly. Unless we are out riding....

Enjoy the pic. This one is the high reflective white we mentioned.

Kenn


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

kenn72 said:


> Thanks khenry44, I appreciate that.
> 
> Yeah, give us a call! We here at EWR have been really busy lately answering emails and such, and have found it hard to get to the forums this last week or so. Sorry about that. But we have been trying to keep everyone updated as much as possible.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying here, appreciate it. I pm'ed you for a bit more info...

but, could we get some geometry numbers posted in this thread, it may help out.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

kenn72 said:


> Thanks khenry44, I appreciate that.
> 
> Yeah, give us a call! We here at EWR have been really busy lately answering emails and such, and have found it hard to get to the forums this last week or so. Sorry about that. But we have been trying to keep everyone updated as much as possible.
> 
> ...


that's beautifull!


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## J (Mar 25, 2004)

Chiming in here as an EWR fanboy. I first saw EWR at Snowshoe in 1997 for the trials comp, and its one of the reasons I got into the sport. 

There is a lot of talk on the trials forums about EWR's return, so congrats on that.


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

*EWR Geometry and such*

Here are some specs on the geometry from the guru, Jay de Jesus himself. More info is listed on the DIRT page at www.ewrbikes.com.

True Temper & Columbus Nivacrom butted tubing thoughout (reducing weight, increasing strength)
Reinforced Head Tube 
Externally butted seat tube, lower overall height 
Floval top tube and tapered rear stays 
All cable guides "Hydro-style" for full-length cable housing (Mt. Perk Jay suggestion) 
Clamp-on machined seat collar

Protoype geometry:

Head angle - 69 degrees 
Seat angle - 73 degrees 
Eff. Top Tube - 22.8" (Medium) / 24.3" (Large) 
Chain Stays - 16.1" with mucho tire clearance 
BB Height - 12.25" (with 2.35" tires) 
Designed around a 4" travel fork

These are a limited edition run with the original graphics as seen on the home page. Two colors are available - Bengal Orange and Hi Reflective White (as seen on the home page). For deposit info, please email us and we'll hok you up through paypal. We are expecting delivery around Valentine's Day. God willing....

Kenn
[email protected]


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## poppy (Jan 24, 2006)

Great to see my all time favorit bike is back :thumbsup: 
If I only know it will I would have waited a little longer and the real one.
Good luck.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

kenn72 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I just wanted to drop a line to all of you fine supporters and let you know we'll be doing a lot more demo rides in the very near future. I am actually stripping down the proto's tonight to get them media blasted and powder coated, and once they are done, we'll be posting demo rides on our DIRT Page. So keep checking the site.
> 
> ...


ok, so now you have me coming back to this thread over and over and just looking, haha! Got me thinking more about actually looking further into one of these frames...

So, I have to ask, are these two pictures examples of the med. size (above) and large size (below) frames?

edit: whoops, the photos didn't show up in the quote for some reason.... well, it is from a post from the first page, kind of obvious which one I am referring too, second and third photos show in the thread.


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## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> So, I have to ask, are these two pictures examples of the med. size (above) and large size (below) frames?


Top is Medium, bottom is the large i believe. Sounds like you need to give Jay or Kenn a call!!!


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

Khenry is correct. Top is Medium (22.8" top tube) and Bottome is large (24.3" top tube).

And also, yes please give us a call. It's way easier to get us on the phone than it is on the web. 

We updated the website a bit -www.ewrbikes.com. Lots of new info and pics there.Like this one:


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## khenry44 (May 2, 2004)

kenn72 said:


> We updated the website a bit -www.ewrbikes.com. Lots of new info and pics there.Like this one:


KENN- THIS LOOKS SICK. (nice touch with matching e13 LG1..)


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Let's have more photos!!!


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

Wow that white bike looks fantabulous!


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

*EWR's at the Swap, Stop and Save this weekend*

Jay Don and I will be at the Swap Stop and Save (swap meet) in Westminster MD this weekend. We'll be pedalling T's and hopefully have a few frames for people to paw over.

For more info, check out http://www.ewrbikes.com/gatherings


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## HoSS (Dec 24, 2003)

*New EWR welds*

Edited: EWR welds from their NAHBS frame.


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

Hoss, I think you might be reading too far into things.... That's a proof of concept proto right there, and to be honest, it's hard to tell with the quality of the picture, and paint, but the welding looks just fine. And well, you can't tell a darn thing about a weld from looking at it anyway!


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## kenn72 (Jun 4, 2007)

*These welds are top notch - period.*

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time.... Here's a close up pic from the production line of the miters. They are spot on. Enough said.

www.ewrbikes.com

See you on the trails,

Kenn
[email protected]


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## CJones (Aug 3, 2004)

The EWR guys had a raw production frame at a local Swap Meet last weekend that I checked out really, really, closely. One of the reasons I was checking it out so thoughly was that it happened to be my frame! I had just ordered one of their frames in a non-standard color so it was actually my frame that they had on display. I thought everything (welds, brazing, finishing, etc.) looked fantastic.


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## HoSS (Dec 24, 2003)

SuspectDevice said:


> Hoss, I think you might be reading too far into things.... That's a proof of concept proto right there, and to be honest, it's hard to tell with the quality of the picture, and paint, but the welding looks just fine. And well, you can't tell a darn thing about a weld from looking at it anyway!


This was at NAHBS mate. I have to question why anyone would take anything but the best they can produce to any show. I've done many, many shows in other industries and would always take the best we had to offer. You know, first impressions and all.

And as for the welds, they don't look "just fine".


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## SuspectDevice (Apr 12, 2004)

HoSS said:


> This was at NAHBS mate. I have to question why anyone would take anything but the best they can produce to any show. I've done many, many shows in other industries and would always take the best we had to offer. You know, first impressions and all.
> 
> And as for the welds, they don't look "just fine".


Trolling is fun and all, and I often do it to kill time when I am on the phone....
But you sound like you have a personal Axe to grind. That's not too groovy. :nono:

EWR re-launched in January. If that white bike is Jay's, which it looks like it is, that means it was the very first frame they threw together to test geometry and ride characteristics, out of a sample batch of 3 about 25 days or so ago. If there are any "lumpy welds" in that picture, which I certainly can't tell for sure from it's blury-ness, it likely has to do with that.

As someone who does the exact same thing as the guys at EWR (design, market, and get my hands semi-dirty fabricating kickass bikes to be *ridden*), I think I can say that the NAHBS show is of pretty limited merit to people who care about function over form.

The Woodsbike isn't some Form as the sole priority bent-tube 29er, or a pair of trendy "alternative" handlebars. It's a triangulated structure designed to accomplish specfic goals as efficiently as possible.

A proof of concept geometry prototype, at a tradeshow! Gasp!
What gives you such a solid knowledge of metallurgy and weldments that you can ascertain all these things from looking at a painted frame.
X-ray vision? Did you hack-saw it in half while no-one was looking?


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## HoSS (Dec 24, 2003)

SuspectDevice said:


> Trolling is fun and all, and I often do it to kill time when I am on the phone....
> But you sound like you have a personal Axe to grind. That's not too groovy. :nono:


Sigh. You shouldn't make assumptions. The pics didn't come from where you think and I'm sure my post wouldn't get his approval.<O</O



SuspectDevice said:


> EWR re-launched in January. If that white bike is Jay's, which it looks like it is, that means it was the very first frame they threw together to test geometry and ride characteristics, out of a sample batch of 3 about 25 days or so ago. If there are any "lumpy welds" in that picture, which I certainly can't tell for sure from it's blury-ness, it likely has to do with that.
> 
> As someone who does the exact same thing as the guys at EWR (design, market, and get my hands semi-dirty fabricating kickass bikes to be *ridden*), I think I can say that the NAHBS show is of pretty limited merit to people who care about function over form.
> 
> ...


Listen, I really wanted one of these frames when they announced they were being reproduced and was a little disappointed with what I saw. The pics are worth sharing as they are from a show where anyone who wanted to attend could. So here they are. They have affected my buying decision so I thought I'd share with others. Hopefully the production frames look better.<O</O



SuspectDevice said:


> What gives you such a solid knowledge of metallurgy and weldments that you can ascertain all these things from looking at a painted frame.
> X-ray vision? Did you hack-saw it in half while no-one was looking?


I live in a one of the largest Ti fabricating centers in the world and use to work in a Ti & exotic metals fabricating factory. I'm quite familiar with the metallurgy and welding theory of steel and other exotic metals and I saw first hand the results of poor welds.
<O</O

That said, I *never* insinuated the EWR's would fail as I understand how overbuilt most frames are. My observations were regarding weld quality.<O</O


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

...sounds like there's a whole lot going on here above and beyond a simple opinion based critique of a bicycle frame. Some grudge against the rebirth of EWR?


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

The welds look fine to me.


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## HoSS (Dec 24, 2003)

BikeSATORI said:


> ...sounds like there's a whole lot going on here above and beyond a simple opinion based critique of a bicycle frame. Some grudge against the rebirth of EWR?


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## Eastcoaster (Feb 13, 2004)

*I'm sure that we all agree that HoSS is welcome to his opinion, but...*

And, it's cool that, based on his own opinion, it seems that the EWR Original Woods doesn't seem like it's for him. His point about just wanting to "share his opinion with others" was well taken also.

That being accomplished, I'm unsure why HoSS just doesn't abandon the thread and let us all get on with the POSITIVE aspects of it.

I, personally, dig the frames and have NO question as to the quality.

No "Industry Police" needed here.


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