# Trail rage from slower lesser-skilled riders when they get passed?



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Anyone get trail rage from passing the grasshopper-level riders out on the public trails?

Recently, I caught up to the back end of a slow moving group, with the guys in the back being nice enough to yield. The group was pretty spaced out, but the next part of the group was close enough together that passing was difficult. They seemed to be trying to speed up when they heard me behind them so I was content to follow their pace, but after a bit of time, I called out a pass on a section more than wide enough to pass, and one of the guys got wicked mad. I couldn't understand his yelling, so I slowed down to listen. I basically got an earful, with him calling me an a-hole, questioning why I am angry, why the rush, why no respect, why am I making the trails unenjoyable for others, etc. His buddies, including the slower ones who caught up, supported his case, saying that they felt like they were in danger and got forced off the trail. I was pretty much standing there stunned... I couldn't argue anything, going from trying to deny his accusations to trying to ask what I could do to make things right, and they just straight up said that I should GTFO. If they thought I was angry earlier, they knew it now. I wanted to say so much, but couldn't get more than 3 words out per sentence, interrupting myself each time, and decided to cut my ride short, all while cursing how retarded people can be.

Guess this is what happens when people feel like they're entitled to things, haven't learned how to share, and overreact to things. Kind of amusing thinking back about it, but still feel like I had to vent this since it pretty much spoiled my day. How common is this and what's a good way to deal with it?


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## muddytire (Aug 27, 2009)

Who the hell are you to come in here talking about passing people and making us uncomfortable on the forum?!?!?!?

HA! Kidding...just wanted to shock you a little more. 

Sounds like you did the right thing in passing them...public spaces and multi-use areas will always have some friction. I applaud your effort to minimize it and defuse it...but in the end some people are just born to be douches.

I always pull over. I figure if you're fast enough to catch me (and it doesn't take a speedster to catch me) then I'm not going to be in your way and slow you down.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

As long as you did a clean pass, didn't hit them or run them off the trial, too forking bad for them. They can pull over to let you pass if they can't handle someone passing them. 

Can't stand slow asses that won't pull off and also get bent when being cleanly passed. 

They need to pick one thing or the other.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> Anyone get trail rage from passing the grasshopper-level riders out on the public trails?
> 
> Recently, I caught up to the back end of a slow moving group, with the guys in the back being nice enough to yield. The group was pretty spaced out, but the next part of the group were close enough together that passing was difficult. They seemed to be trying to speed up when they heard me behind them so I was content to follow their pace, but after a bit of time, I called out a pass on a section more than wide enough to pass, and one of the guys got wicked mad. I couldn't understand his yelling, so I slowed down to listen. I basically got an earful, with him calling me an a-hole, questioning why I am angry, why the rush, why no respect, why am I making the trails unenjoyable for others, etc. His buddies, including the slower ones who caught up, supported his case, saying that they felt like they were in danger and got forced off the trail. I was pretty much standing there stunned... I couldn't argue anything, going from trying to deny his accusations to trying to ask what I could do to make things right, and they just straight up said that I should GTFO. If they thought I was angry earlier, they knew it now. I wanted to say so much, but couldn't get more than 3 words out per sentence, interrupting myself each time, and decided to cut my ride short, all while cursing how retarded people can be.
> 
> Guess this is what happens when people feel like they're entitled to things, haven't learned how to share, and overreact to things. Kind of amusing thinking back about it, but still feel like I had to vent this since it pretty much spoiled my day. How common is this and what's a good way to deal with it?


Yeah, it does sound like the group over-reacted and getting yelled at would have ruined my ride too 

The only suggestion I have is to communicate. I hate it when someone rides up behind me and says nothing. It is hard to hear someone else behind you when your own tires are making noise on the trail, so often you don't know right away that another rider is back there. As a beginner, I would get very uncomfortable with someone being right on my wheel because I would worry that if I bobbled a spot I would get crashed into. So maybe they were speeding up because you made them nervous and they were trying to ride faster than they felt comfortable.

I think it's more polite to call out a greeting and let people know you are there, and you are fine hanging back behind them until a good passing spot comes along. Then let them decide where to pull over. A little small talk isn't bad either- "it's a great day for a ride" always seems to get a positive response 

If the above doesn't work, maybe THEY are the ******s.

I had an experience several years ago when a guy got right up behind me on a narrow singletrack downhill and asked to pass. When I moved over at a wide spot, he passed me no problem and then his buddy behind him, who never said a word so I did not know was there, tried to squeeze by just as I was moving back onto the trail. I ended up being forced off the trail and crashing and when I got back up he had stopped to ask if I was OK and I cussed a blue streak at him. Just to show, communication DOES go a long way in making everyone's trail experience more enjoyable...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hey you can't please everybody. It sounds like you were in the right if it happened the way you explained. Getting upset and cutting your ride short because of others bad attitudes in my opinion wasn't necessary. You have the better fitness level so you should have ignored them and pedaled off. As stated there will always be some conflict on multi use trails. Working together to keep everyone happy is the goal. But unless you're a magician you can't change the ones with a self righteous attitude.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Well, I already thought about what I could do better:

- I didn't go "how's it going" when I was behind them, since they upped the pace to a level that was relatively intense. Maybe they thought one of their slow guys suddenly got faster and they were used to dropping him, and didn't want their harm their pride.
- I passed them when they took a longer sissy line, but I could see how they might have had to hit the brakes if I looked too out of control doing a drop into a rutted section that turns to merge with the trail, on the brakes a bit since I took it faster than usual.
- Maybe they thought I was a strav-a-hole. I happen to do GPS and strava, but I wasn't aiming for it there, for obvious reasons.
- Maybe I could've asked, "mind if I join you guys," even if I didn't mean it, and dropped them when they decide to take a break to regroup.
- There is an alternate route, but it's a fireroad...

Basically, too much trail ninja and not enough trail bro.

Maybe their bikes weren't well tuned and that made things even more dangerous for them, like Avid brakes needing pads and a bleed, low end forks that could use some TLC, low end tires with silly pressure in them, seatposts higher than they need to be, being clipped in and not fully used to it, etc. My call out was only about 3 seconds before I actually speeded up. Can always find ways to be more considerate, but I would not doubt that they have been through this before with someone else that passed them and were profiling similar types to lecture. It was only 1 guy who was mad. I wanted to say the mad guy was basically projecting everything he was onto me, but when the others jumped in to support him, I couldn't say anything.

Or maybe the zone between their first rider and last rider is sacred, and I have committed the sin of entering it. I shouldn't have thanked the ones that yielded... it was all a trap!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hell short of asking them out on a date. I say you were plenty cordial. Its obvious they are new to the sport and aren't familiar with trail ettequette. Maybe next time ask them out to dinner and a movie.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

F -that. "Grown men" whose egos get hurt recreating are funny. I'd do the same thing... sit on their tire, wear them out then pass when I can. Your problem, you stopped to listen. 
"In danger", suck it up princess.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

It sounds like you did all the right things but if you pissed off 6 people, maybe there was something you did that was rather d!ckish.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I see a lot of fast riders who try to pass pretty aggressively by flying up on slower riders yelling things that arent necessarily self explanatory. 

Dont yell "RIDER UP" as you come charging into a group. They dont know what that means, they just know some weird dude is yelling at them. It makes unskilled riders pretty nervous too.

"ON YOUR LEFT" sounds a lot like "move left" to tons of people, and they will move left then wonder why you just buzzed them passing. 

Yes, trail etiquette states you should announce your pass, but after riding in pubic/heavily used parks, ive just taken to slowing down and passing quietly. 9/10 times it goes more smoothly. A quick "hello" helps and makes people move to the right where they should and avoids the whole "on your left" trainwreck.

I think its part of being respectful of other park users. Sometimes you gotta just slow down and wait.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

Get a bell or one of those clown horns  honk honk!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

EugeneTheJeep said:


> Get a bell or one of those clown horns  honk honk!


Yep. I just need one that doesn't take up like 2" of the bar and is ergonomic enough to use. It's about $50 for a Spurcycle one or under $15 for a tiny one that isn't really that loud. I ride with someone who has a powered version of that small bell that rings it repeatedly in a pattern, which can be placed in spots that don't take up room like your seatpost, since it turns on and off. I think he actually makes them, since I hear my other buddies talk about how he sells these "powerman bells" at the trailhead.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> Yep. I just need one that doesn't take up like 2" of the bar and is ergonomic enough to use. It's about $50 for a Spurcycle one or under $15 for a tiny one that isn't really that loud.


I have an Incredi-bell and it is very loud. Costs about $12. On trails with lots of foot traffic, I have gotten a lot of smiles and "thank yous" from hikers when I ring when coming up behind them. People don't always register a voice, but a bike bell is very recognizable. And seems to be received positively for the most part.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

MtbRN said:


> I have an Incredi-bell and it is very loud. Costs about $12. On trails with lots of foot traffic, I have gotten a lot of smiles and "thank yous" from hikers when I ring when coming up behind them. People don't always register a voice, but a bike bell is very recognizable. And seems to be received positively for the most part.


That's the "tiny one that isn't really loud" that I'm talking about, actually. I have an electra 2-tone bell on my commuter and my singlespeed (and one of my FS bikes), but it doesn't stand far enough from the bar to clear other clamps (ex. brake lever, lock-on collar), so it needs its own space. They don't hear/react to it unless I'm really close. Cars probably have trouble hearing it I bet. The one on my singlespeed has lost some of its loudness, probably from the bumps and mounting it upside down.

In other news, I looked up other trail rage incidents...


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

OP, it sounds like you were in the right on this. A couple things. One is that I wouldn't have stopped, rather just keep going. I probably would have said something while passing if they were hurling insults but I'd keep going.

The other point is that when you say that you "called out a pass" what did you say? I usually just ask "if it would be OK if I get past you guys" or something like that.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Here's what i have been using for 17 years. Works perfectly and takes minimal space. I don't feel that it's in the way because I use it EVERY TIME I RIDE.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Mob mentality.....1 guy overreacted, and since you were outnumbered....they all jumped in.

On the other hand.....beginner/newbies don't know trail ettiquite


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Ke? No comprende? Pretend you don't speak English... Then make out like you're cussing in another language ^^ that would be wicked funny! 

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## FullBladdy (Aug 26, 2011)

I get this on my road bike all time and also on my mountain bike. I am very polite with every person I pass but still get attitude. I see it like when you are behind someone on the highway then move over a lane to pass them only to have them gun it so you can't. On the trail people get all caught up in how they stack up and no group likes to get smoked by one dude. The only other thing you can do is ride with these tools so they get better and you won't pass them anymore.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Some people's kids, man.


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## rockymtbiker (May 25, 2012)

*I wouldn't sweat it.* You did the right thing, just move on. Likely, very likely, NOTHING can help them! Me, I just pull over and let faster riders pass, and then wish them a nice day...and I just try to be polite when I'm the passer. What else can you do? *You can't be mommy and teacher to every person on this earth. Just can't...*


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## j3ffro (May 8, 2015)

rockymtbiker said:


> *I wouldn't sweat it.* You did the right thing, just move on. Likely, very likely, NOTHING can help them! Me, I just pull over and let faster riders pass, and then wish them a nice day...and I just try to be polite when I'm the passer. What else can you do? *You can't be mommy and teacher to every person on this earth. Just can't...*


Spot on. This was likely more about them than you. I've only been riding a few weeks, but I've run ~3000 miles over the last few years, both trail and road, and I've come across thousands of people on bikes. Every one of them has gotten a nod and a greeting, some return it, some scowl, some ignore. Same with other runners. Some people just suck, and don't know how to act, or some people are struggling much more than they let on, and a simple "morning" might be too taxing at that moment. Either way, it ain't me, it's on them.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

j3ffro said:


> Spot on. This was likely more about them than you. I've only been riding a few weeks, but I've run ~3000 miles over the last few years, both trail and road, and I've come across thousands of people on bikes. Every one of them has gotten a nod and a greeting, some return it, some scowl, some ignore. Same with other runners. Some people just suck, and don't know how to act, or some people are struggling much more than they let on, and a simple "morning" might be too taxing at that moment. Either way, it ain't me, it's on them.





rockymtbiker said:


> *I wouldn't sweat it.* You did the right thing, just move on. Likely, very likely, NOTHING can help them! Me, I just pull over and let faster riders pass, and then wish them a nice day...and I just try to be polite when I'm the passer. What else can you do? *You can't be mommy and teacher to every person on this earth. Just can't...*


Same thing I said in post #5 only worded differently.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I have had similar things happen. I agree that at some point, folks have to understand that there are people better than them and its ok that they pass etc. I don't get butthurt when a faster rider overtakes me and I feel like I do a good job listening for them. I try to let folks know I am back there (b/c its hard to hear) and say "hi, nice day for a ride, I would like to get passed you guys at some point when its safe.". I have been more ninja-like in the past and this has erupted into the behavior you describe..we can all do better but agree...some folks get a little more upset than they need to.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

People on bikes, people in cars ^^ same... same... no one likes/wants to be passed. Had a mature female (aka old hag) doing 12km over the speed limit trying to pass me just to pull in front of me, when she had ample opportunity to just pull in behind and take her off ramp 1-2mins down the road!?

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Some places I ride, I zip tie a small cowbell to the seat rails. Everyone knows I'm approaching and most of them clear the trail long before I get there. I started doing it largely because hikers in that area started complaining about being startled by people on bikes, even when the bikes were moving at very reasonable speeds and yielding the trail.


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## elcaro1101 (Sep 1, 2011)

Seems by the comments nobody else thinks the OP did anything wrong. 

OP is giving just a single side of the story, and the way the OP tells it, adjectives used, etc. It seems like OP has some anger issues that could have very easily played a role.


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't like trying to force a pass, I'd rather hang back or stop unless I know there's passing op soon and would feel terrible if I made someone speed up and crash. 
Oncoming riders with more confidence than skill on traverses who don't give way to uphill bug me, just charging full speed and seeming to only anticipate the pass once they're right in front of instead of looking for an off track line or stopping where it's wide enough to pass. I've twice had kooks doing that and attempting to stall only to fall on me as I pass, once taking us over a big drop wrecking my fork.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I use a trail bell...works great..but still...some folks just don't understand how this works.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> I use a trail bell...works great..but still...some folks just don't understand how this works.


Where do you live that some folks don't understand how a bell works?


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

mtnbikej said:


> Mob mentality.....1 guy overreacted, and since you were outnumbered....they all jumped in.
> 
> On the other hand.....beginner/newbies don't know trail ettiquite


Uhm, to be fair, it's pretty intuitive. I'm still slow as ****, and when I started riding I knew I was slow and just moved out of peoples way.

The only people who have been ***** to me even when I move out of the way ASAP have been self-righteous roadies who refuse to tap their brakes or slow down under any circumstances in public spaces.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

It's a weird kind of psychosis some people have. They hate having someone tailing them trying to pass. Best solution is just pull over and they are gone and your problem is solved, but for some reason, people make themselves miserable by escalating rather than ending the problem.

Here's a video of a guy trying to pass. Guy in front won't let him. Guy in back starts lecturing him about trail courtesy. Ends in a fight. 
(You can skip the first 1:20 which is just the back guy riding before he runs into the slower guy).

mountain biker fight in new zealand - OCsponger587 - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## Barman1 (Jan 8, 2014)

I got upset yesterday when a group ran me off a singletrack climb by not yielding. 
I hollered something about etiquette and maybe a bit more...
Basically I ruined my own ride agonizing about my overreaction. 
I'm usually the nice guy that pulls over but yesterday I was out of character.
And the other downside of being a dick, I met the entire group an hour and a half later at the trail head. I apologized and they were cool about it. 
So maybe after learning my lesson the hard way they did as well (etiquette). Just enjoy the ride, getting upset just ruins it for everyone.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Too bad.

The rare time I run into a group I'll tail them for a while then when it is obvious they notice me I'll ask if I can pass. I won't call out a "pass" and just do it.

Because it is rare to run into a group, or even other riders where I'm at, I usually try and stop and make conversation for a change.

Living in a remote area without many other bikers has its drawbacks and I often long to live in an area with more riders and longer and better trail systems - then I read a post like yours and am glad I'm where I'm at.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Kick 'em in the ballz next time around. They were being douchenozzles all the way around.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

OddTrickStar said:


> Where do you live that some folks don't understand how a bell works?


Some folks don't get that the ding ding ding means move over.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Slow_Thyroid_Bike said:


> Uhm, to be fair, it's pretty intuitive. I'm still slow as ****, and when I started riding I knew I was slow and just moved out of peoples way.
> 
> The only people who have been ***** to me even when I move out of the way ASAP have been self-righteous roadies who refuse to tap their brakes or slow down under any circumstances in public spaces.


And you know they are roadies how? I hate when these threads descend into roadies, lyrca, and Strava w/r to people are fit and/or fast and enjoy that aspect of our sport.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Sounds like the guy who first started yelling at you was frustrated and not having a good ride (been there), and the rest just piled on because he was their buddy so he must have been in the right.

You did ok, sounds like. Don't sweat it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TiGeo said:


> Some folks don't get that the ding ding ding means move over.


I was on the MUP a few days ago. I was just tooling around that day - rode to the coffee shop, read the paper, stopped by the LBS, went home. Very chill ride. The section of MUP is a short one (only about a mile and a half ATM) and gets very little traffic. Had my new bell on my commuter, so I kinda wanted to use it. There was a group of about 4 pedestrians I saw WAY in advance. I dinged my bell a few times, and they were entirely oblivious. One of them was actually moving TOWARDS the left as I did so, pushing a dude in a wheelchair - almost felt like he was going to push the dude in the wheelchair INTO me. I ended up completing the pass in the grass on the FAR left side of the path.

So yeah, plenty of people have no clue.

When it comes to passing on the mtb trail, I'm usually the one BEING passed. If someone pulls up on my wheel, I'll pull off whenever there's plenty of space to do so. If there's not, I'll pick up the pace until I find a spot I'm comfortable pulling over. Every now and again, I encounter a rider that gets impatient when I do this. I'm not a fan of the way MOST riders ask to pass, when they do. I don't need most people to ask. I know they're back there. But the lack of courtesy can be disappointing. I never bother saying anything to anyone...because I'm not going to change it from where I'm standing. But that lack of courtesy, I could see REALLY pissing off a newbie. And to be fair, most of the riders probably think they're being quite courteous. But while calling out "Passing!" or "On your left!" is functional, and what I feel is appropriate in a race or a group ride with your buddies, it lacks an element of courtesy when you're just riding with other general traffic on the trails. With random people on the trail, "Excuse me" does better. Most riders do thank me when I pull over, but some do not. This is essential when passing random folks on public trails.

Just be nice, dammit.

I really don't care if you're too out of breath from working hard to utter more than a single word. Courtesy on public trails trumps your workout.

But the opposite is also true. If you're being passed, don't be a jerk about it. Someone is going to be faster than you. Let the passing rider go where it's safe (and you're comfortable), but be reasonable about it, they'll be gone in a few seconds. Now, if they're buzzing your tire and blasting through the brush to go by (I've seen that happen before, too), by all means, let 'em have it. If they're not meeting your standards of courtesy 100%, let it go.


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

At 56, I am usually the slow guy on single track. When there is someone behind me I much rather pull over and let them pass than wait for a convenient place for them to pass me. The exception being if the section is short and technical so that pulling over would force me to walk and within 30 seconds or so that's not the case anymore. But, I'd try to communicate the fact that I intend to let them pass soon to the rider behind me.

On the flip side, I find that most slow beginners in front of me will act the same and go out of their way to allow me to pass. Of course there are exceptions. For example, the moron with earphones that I had been trying to pass for 5 minutes but he remained oblivious to me. Finally when he yielded to a group of oncoming women but still remained unaware of me I yelled so loud that I know I scared the woman group behind me (sorry!). But he did let me pass then.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Well it looks like this thread is now the official "how do you pass slower riders, volume 145" thread. So here's my 0.02. When I come up on slower riders they usually have no idea that I'm there. So I ask in a polite tone "could I get past you guys?" or something like that. This does two things. One it alerts them to my presence and two it tells them what I would like to do in the situation. As I pass I usually get a sentence or two of small talk in. I rarely, if ever, have a problem passing riders. Phrases like "on your left" are useless, especially if you're dealing with a hiker or a newbie. 

And when somebody comes up behind me on the trail? Uh, I get out the way. Why the hell would I want somebody on my rear wheel checking out my butt crack for the next mile?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I was the d!ck the last 2 times but I didn't get yelled at.

One was a spot where most people will let off the brakes and roll. I was approaching at speed and these 2 guys were just sorta making their way casually. At the spot where I thought they were going to roll, they were still just making their way and I had to brake pretty hard. I didn't skid, but the tires were loud and scary. I really wasn't in a hurry, so I just said "no rush!" and joined them for a bit 'til the trail opened up and I passed. The lead rider moved left as I passed on the left, though, and I tapped him on the arm with my elbow. There is a chance that he didn't know I was passing, but I thought he had heard the banter behind him.

The other time I was overtaking a father and son. I was moving fast on a familiar trail and I braked well in advance, and slowly approached, but somehow the father was taken by surprise and he suddenly urged his son off the trail. I explained briefly that they didn't need to stop for me. I can see where maybe they were not comfortable being passed due to whatever - poison ivy, thorny trees... - but I didn't need to get past them _right then and there_. I was happy to wait, but the father sorta panicked and subsequently probably put the boy ill-at-ease.

So, I'm trying my best, but sometimes it just doesn't work out right.

-F


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

If I can't get around clean, and by clean I mean not riding around OFF the trail, then I'll wait, not a huge inconvenience.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

In my 28 years of mtbing I have only had 1 bad experience with other riders, and that was at a bike park where a bunch of kids were stopped on fast section, around a corner, on the trail. Outside of that I've only had good experiences with other riders. People often pull over and stop to let me pass, and if I hear someone coming up behind I pull over or stop, depending on the trail. On those rare occasions when I have to make my presence known verbally, a simple "get the F#€£ it of my way" suffices. Seriously, I only seem to meet polite riders.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> Some folks don't get that the ding ding ding means move over.


Maybe they thought it meant dinner was ready or that an ice cream cart was announcing it's presence.

I guess living in the northeast, I'm used to the occasional jerk. Some days, they are all out at once. If I allow them to get under my skin, I lose.

Maybe if we had 99"ers we could just roll right over the trail riff raff. People would gain a bit more respect for bike bells.

Has anyone tried shaking a rattlesnake rattle to clear the trail?


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

It is rare, but if I come up on slower riders when going downhill, and they won't allow a pass, I just stop and give them a minute or two to get way ahead, then ride my ride. Going uphill, usually slower riders are happy to have a reason to stop and allow a pass, so it hasn't been an issue.

In my younger days, I was more inclined to engage in angry dialogue, but these days, I just try to take the "what, are you upset about something" route and act all surprised and confused by their anger. Usually diffuses them. If you can get someone to actually say the words about why they are angry, that's often enough for them to realize how dumb what they just said sounded.

Like I said, in the past I was more likely to be sarcastic and aggressive, but life's too short to waste a good ride on something stupid.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

OddTrickStar said:


> Has anyone tried shaking a rattlesnake rattle to clear the trail?


Quite possibly the only thing that might work better than a bell.

As for the "road rage" the group gave off in the OP's post.... Some people are just morons, don't sweat it.

next time get past them and keep going, don't bother stopping and apologizing because they are too slow and do not know how trail etiquette works.


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

I think the problem was that you didn't yell "*STRAVA*" at the right time.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

A$$holes that do their best to block you passing.... my pet hate.

Such fragile egos. Do these people really expect the world to slow down and ride at their pace?

If someone caught up to you, it's because they're faster than you... big deal, just let them pass.


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## Brycetron (Mar 27, 2012)

Take it with a grain of salt. Some people live miserable lives and if what you posted is true, you did nothing wrong. If I hear riders coming up behind me, it means they are faster, obviously. As soon as safe to do so I stop and move off the trail to let the faster rider(s) bye. Not everyone is as conciensous as me.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

TiGeo said:


> And you know they are roadies how? I hate when these threads descend into roadies, lyrca, and Strava w/r to people are fit and/or fast and enjoy that aspect of our sport.


Deee leeeeted.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

TiGeo said:


> Some folks don't get that the ding ding ding means move over.


Yep, just this morning I was riding behind some people walking on the trail, i ding from far away ding closer and ding right behind them then they jumped all over the trail like I threw a pack of firecrackers at their feet lol. I'll have to get the before mentioned incredibell off my old bike it was much louder than the one that came on my new one.

I remember seeing an air horn somewhere on youtube that had the air tank stored in a plastic bottle in one of the bikes cages, and that thing was really loud!

I can't imagine getting mad when people pass me and it happens all the time


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## algs911 (Aug 5, 2014)

I would suggest DO NOT communicate. People like that don't get nor do they deserve any of my time or energy. It's happened to me as well, but I just keep riding. My life is too short to give anything, including my attention, to people like that.

I move on and it never bothers me and doesn't ruin my ride. There are people like that out there and there's nothing I can do or say to change them.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

algs911 said:


> I would suggest DO NOT communicate. People like that don't get nor do they deserve any of my time or energy. It's happened to me as well, but I just keep riding. My life is too short to give anything, including my attention, to people like that.
> 
> I move on and it never bothers me and doesn't ruin my ride. There are people like that out there and there's nothing I can do or say to change them.


This.

A reasonably skilled rider can pass slower riders even on some pretty tight trails without much conflict. The most skilled riders pass "trail debris" swiftly, silently and then they're off like a prom dress. No worries bro, and the only comments are, "damn! That dude is haulin azz!"


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BacDoc said:


> This.
> 
> A reasonably skilled rider can pass slower riders even on some pretty tight trails without much conflict. The most skilled riders pass "trail debris" swiftly, silently and then they're off like a prom dress. No worries bro, and *the only comments are, "damn! That dude is haulin azz!"*


And I'm usually the one speaking those words.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

"on your left" usually makes people move left and it's more dangerous for us both than me just passing without saying anything... although I do get irritated "announce yourself!" comments sometimes.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Steve71 said:


> A$$holes that do their best to block you passing.... my pet hate.
> 
> Such fragile egos. Do these people really expect the world to slow down and ride at their pace?
> 
> If someone caught up to you, it's because they're faster than you... big deal, just let them pass.


My buddy and I were just having a conversation about this last ride, with regard to riding and even racing. 
A bicycle is a human powered thing. If a rider runs up on your wheel (barring you having a mechanical fail) just let him around, he beat you long ago, you just didn't know it yet. 
He had to be a stronger climber, or a more skilled descender to catch you. Ego is stupid in this situation and will possibly get someone hurt.

I'm pretty fortunate, I love to climb tech and consider myself to be pretty decent at it, thankfully I've never been c0ckblocked intentionally. I'll also stop at the bottom of a section if I think it might interfere with my shot at cleaning it. I'm happy to patiently wait for a place on non-tech grinds.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

elcaro1101 said:


> Seems by the comments nobody else thinks the OP did anything wrong.
> 
> OP is giving just a single side of the story, and the way the OP tells it, adjectives used, etc. It seems like OP has some anger issues that could have very easily played a role.


_HEY! HEYYYYYYYYYY!!!! You know what?! You're an a-hole!! Do you think you own the place?! <wait for reaction> Why are you angry?! We were going on our own business and you had to jump in and ruin it all. I don't deal with BS day-in day-out to see a-holes like you F **** up when we're trying to have fun here. This place is for beginners. Go do your DH on a real DH trail! Hell, go jump off a cliff, will you?!_

I don't mean to use those words on you. I just wanted to see how you would feel if someone started going off on you using such words, before you even have a chance to understand what's the problem. Not exactly my scenario, but basically that's the place I was put into. Forgive me for being agitated after being called an a-hole. Just trying to understand what goes through peoples' heads that makes them act this way, and I have a hard time figuring it out based on their choice of words, when their vocabulary consists of mostly curse words. The guy never mentioned that he deals with BS day-in day-out, the trail being for beginners, that I should do my DH on a DH trail nor to jump off a cliff; I just translated his "Get the F out" suggestion and perceived what was behind his emotional state as that.

Oh, and for the record, I literally just called out, "PASSING" when I took the faster line to get ahead of them. Since someone else brought up the topic, I call out "BICYCLE" to alert hikers and other trail users if I'm coming up behind them, if I'm not on a bike that has a bell. Hikers usually giggle as they make room. I slow down to yield to any oncoming traffic, but it tends to turn into a situation where everyone's yielding to each other, usually letting whoever takes initiative first to pass or the one who has an easier time passing to go first.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

One Pivot said:


> "ON YOUR LEFT" sounds a lot like "move left" to tons of people, and they will move left then wonder why you just buzzed them passing.
> 
> Yes, trail etiquette states you should announce your pass, but after riding in pubic/heavily used parks, ive just taken to slowing down and passing quietly. 9/10 times it goes more smoothly. A quick "hello" helps and makes people move to the right where they should and avoids the whole "on your left" trainwreck.


Very much agree. Our stock phrases are often very confusing. The key word in "On your left" is the opposite of what I want the other person to do. Stupid. And where do I get off yelling at strangers to do things?

So I just go with "hello." People usually yield at that point. Maybe I'll say some smalltalk thing.

If they don't get the picture, I'll ask if I can sneak by. Failing that, there almost always are places to put in a bit of a dig and get on with my ride.

The thing that I sometimes notice is when people chase on to me when I'm riding. That plays out a few different ways. There are the guys that huff and puff their way onto my rear wheel when I'm mountain biking, which is usually no big deal. Then there are the guys who silently chase on and get in my draft on the road. I don't like that because I don't always notice, and I still feel guilty for taking out someone's front wheel when I had no idea he was there. BikeSnob compared it to someone walking up and putting his hand on your shoulder when you're at a urinal. Kind of extreme, but I see where he's coming from. Anyway, a wtf. I usually just sit up when that happens these days. Though people can be surprisingly tenacious about not passing.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

When I get passed, I usually hand out some encouragement.

"Nice!"

"Rip it up!"

etc...

And if I feel like I've been holding someone up, I usually throw in an 'oops, sorry, didn't know you were there' or something along those lines. 


I hate when someone knows they've got someone behind them and makes no effort to let them by. It's even worse on tech stuff when the person in front gets off and starts walking and still won't move to the side to let anyone by. Seriously, some people are just frigging oblivious.


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## gumby. (Mar 11, 2013)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Our stock phrases are often very confusing.


Driving taxi cabs years ago I surprised at the number of people who don't know left from right or have to think about it long and hard.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

gumby. said:


> Driving taxi cabs years ago I surprised at the number of people who don't know left from right or have to think about it long and hard.


It shouldn't be surprising once you realize that half of the population is below average intelligence.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

A lot of the time, they're ambiguous directions, too.

Whose left?

I mean, if I'm passing someone on the trail, my left and their left are the same. But if I look at the front of a building, my left is the building's right.

This might be more of a problem for stagehands and sailors because stages and boats have their own left and right referencing the stage or boat. Though skiers have also evolved some language to disambiguate it.


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

Apparently the first thing they should learn is trail etiquette and should get out of the way. Sure, the faster rider may have to wait a little bit because there may not be a spot to let you pass, but they should let you pass otherwise. We don't have that problem where I ride.


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## mass-hole (Oct 6, 2011)

I just moved out to the Park City UT area and so far I have not run into any issues on the trails. I usually stop for hikers and if someone is coming up behind me, I pull over as long as I notice them of course. I am not fast but do occasionally catch people on climbs and they have always pulled over without me saying anything so I just throw them a "thank you" on the way by.

The guy I ride with has been here a lot longer than I have and says he has run into some pretty nasty people though. I imagine they probably have a similar attitude to the swimmers at the pool I lifeguarded at. If the door was not unlocked at the exact nanosecond it was supposed to be it got kicked open and they were swearing on the way into the pool.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Steve71 said:


> A$$holes that do their best to block you passing.... my pet hate.
> 
> Such fragile egos. Do these people really expect the world to slow down and ride at their pace?
> 
> If someone caught up to you, it's because they're faster than you... big deal, just let them pass.


I agree with this, and also the observation on the first page that if 6 people were pissed at Varaxis, most likely he could have done something a little better.

I don't like people I don't know shadowing me because I don't want to wonder if they're faster and I'm just obstructing them. The tighter the trail, the more likely I'll get out of their way, since they won't have many good chances to safely pass.

Communication is rare, in my experience. I'll pull over for them if they don't announce an intent to pass within a few minutes.

When I catch people it's usually that they are far slower. The trails aren't so busy here that I'm often catching people who are only a little slower than me. And these slow folks tend to hear me and get out of the way on their own accord.

Could also be a regional thing. Most MTBers in Kansas are very chill.


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## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

The one I always feel bad about is when I am riding with people and someone comes up on my wheel. I assume its one of my riding buddies and try to put on some speed and open the gap back up. This usually results in me stopping at the next intersection unable to open a gap and thinking damn, why is this guy so fast today. Then turning around and realizing that I was holding up a stranger who had passed the back end of my group quite a while ago and apparently got stuck behind me... That usual results in a very intelligent comment from me like, "Hey your not John..."


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

LOL, I've not been John. But that's also why I call out on my way through a group. A person could be forgiven for not recognizing the sound of one person's tires as different from another's.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

OddTrickStar said:


> It shouldn't be surprising once you realize that half of the population is below average intelligence.


I am not sure you understand how the Math behind Averages works.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The way I see it you really only need to ask them one question. Are any of you guys carrying a gun?

Once they've all said 'no' you can say 'Well I do, so how about a little shutting the f*** up?' :0) 

Yeah, yeah, moan if you like but that would totally work for me. My country doesn't allow us to do fun stuff like that though.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

Klurejr said:


> I am not sure you understand how the Math behind Averages works.


Did you just make my point for me?


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

OddTrickStar said:


> Did you just make my point for me?


Well with a bell curve, which intelligence is, it would be incorrect to say that half the population is below average. The majority of the population is actually average, hence it being the mean score. The amount below would be less than half.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

TheDwayyo said:


> Well with a bell curve, which intelligence is, it would be incorrect to say that half the population is below average. The majority of the population is actually average, hence it being the mean score. The amount below would be less than half.


Bell curves were thought up by some pointy heads with no sense of humor. Probably convinced themselves they were the smartest people in the room.

I understand your point but stating that a range is more correct than a specific value doesn't make all values within that range equal.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> The way I see it you really only need to ask them one question. Are any of you guys carrying a gun?
> 
> Once they've all said 'no' you can say 'Well I do, so how about a little shutting the f*** up?' :0)
> 
> Yeah, yeah, moan if you like but that would totally work for me. My country doesn't allow us to do fun stuff like that though.


HA!

how about a little shutting the f*** up?' :0)

:lol:


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

One Pivot said:


> I see a lot of fast riders who try to pass pretty aggressively by flying up on slower riders yelling things that arent necessarily self explanatory.
> 
> Dont yell "RIDER UP" as you come charging into a group. They dont know what that means, they just know some weird dude is yelling at them. It makes unskilled riders pretty nervous too.
> 
> ...


This exactly.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

BobbyWilliams said:


> The one I always feel bad about is when I am riding with people and someone comes up on my wheel. I assume its one of my riding buddies and try to put on some speed and open the gap back up. This usually results in me stopping at the next intersection unable to open a gap and thinking damn, why is this guy so fast today. Then turning around and realizing that I was holding up a stranger who had passed the back end of my group quite a while ago and apparently got stuck behind me... That usual results in a very intelligent comment from me like, "Hey your not John..."


Lol I did that once, felt pretty dumb haha.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

A van driver yelled at me this morning, calling me a f***ing idiot etc. Why do people think they have the right to abuse total strangers like that? Personally, I'd quite like a gun, so that I can gently explain to them that they do not.


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> A van driver yelled at me this morning, calling me a f***ing idiot etc. Why do people think they have the right to abuse total strangers like that? Personally, I'd quite like a gun, so that I can gently explain to them that they do not.


Shovels can be used for things other than trail work. But they're great for trail work when it involves burying bodies. Not that I condone cracking people in the head with a shovel and burying their bodies to make neat pump track sections on the local trails. But you could do that.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

I drive to my MTB trails. There's $10 parking 10 ft from the trailhead or free parking 1/8 mi away so I park at the free parking most of the time. I'm all for supporting parks but $10 each time adds up quick.

Anyway, I'm riding that short distance and there's a congested stopsign so I stop and wait for the cars and some b*tch goes "get the f*ck off the road, f*ggot cyclist!"

I'm SHOCKED at how rude a total stranger can be. I was riding in the shoulder, out of everyone's way... so I say "how do you want me to get to the trails, teleport?" and she starts yelling at me for what "rude assh*le" I am lol... some people...


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## Bike&Fish (Oct 12, 2013)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Same thing I said in post #5 only worded differently.


Same thing I wanted to say, but you and everyone else said, so I didn't...


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Varaxis said:


> Anyone get trail rage from passing the grasshopper-level riders out on the public trails?
> 
> Recently, I caught up to the back end of a slow moving group, with the guys in the back being nice enough to yield. The group was pretty spaced out, but the next part of the group was close enough together that passing was difficult. They seemed to be trying to speed up when they heard me behind them so I was content to follow their pace, but after a bit of time, I called out a pass on a section more than wide enough to pass, and one of the guys got wicked mad. I couldn't understand his yelling, so I slowed down to listen. I basically got an earful, with him calling me an a-hole, questioning why I am angry, why the rush, why no respect, why am I making the trails unenjoyable for others, etc. His buddies, including the slower ones who caught up, supported his case, saying that they felt like they were in danger and got forced off the trail. I was pretty much standing there stunned... I couldn't argue anything, going from trying to deny his accusations to trying to ask what I could do to make things right, and they just straight up said that I should GTFO. If they thought I was angry earlier, they knew it now. I wanted to say so much, but couldn't get more than 3 words out per sentence, interrupting myself each time, and decided to cut my ride short, all while cursing how retarded people can be.
> 
> Guess this is what happens when people feel like they're entitled to things, haven't learned how to share, and overreact to things. Kind of amusing thinking back about it, but still feel like I had to vent this since it pretty much spoiled my day. How common is this and what's a good way to deal with it?


I ride with a bell (incredibell) and ring it to pass. You cant control other people, you can only control yourself. Dont let them get to you.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

goodmojo said:


> You cant control other people...


You can if you have a gun and they don't :0)


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Most of our trails have lots of tech, and riders usually are stopping on climbs or trying to clean an up. Never had any passing issues. In our group rides, everyone always gets out of the way after stalling on a climb, it's the polite thing. Most trails aren't wide enough to pass on.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

I haven't experienced too many unpleasant encounters on the trail. However, I recall one time where this guy was coming up behind me on a narrow section of trail. As he got closer, I could hear him grunting and snorting ... I wasn't sure if he was asthmatic or just didn't have a bell. As he approached closer to my back wheel, I worried that he was going to hock a snotball on me, so I eased to the right and stopped at a small clearing. It was a smart move on my part because he passed me wide of the left, and he rode right through big patch of stinging nettles. Not surprisingly , he didn't thank me for being courteous


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> A van driver yelled at me this morning, calling me a f***ing idiot etc. Why do people think they have the right to abuse total strangers like that? Personally, I'd quite like a gun, so that I can gently explain to them that they do not.


Are you sure it wasn't someone you know?😉


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Mr Pig said:


> A van driver yelled at me this morning, calling me a f***ing idiot etc. Why do people think they have the right to abuse total strangers like that? Personally, I'd quite like a gun, so that I can gently explain to them that they do not.


I'm not sure brandishing a firearm is the appropriate method to de-escalate verbal altercations.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Alias530 said:


> I drive to my MTB trails. There's $10 parking 10 ft from the trailhead or free parking 1/8 mi away so I park at the free parking most of the time. I'm all for supporting parks but $10 each time adds up quick.
> 
> Anyway, I'm riding that short distance and there's a congested stopsign so I stop and wait for the cars and some b*tch goes "get the f*ck off the road, f*ggot cyclist!"
> 
> I'm SHOCKED at how rude a total stranger can be. I was riding in the shoulder, out of everyone's way... so I say "how do you want me to get to the trails, teleport?" and she starts yelling at me for what "rude assh*le" I am lol... some people...


There is a real problem of Jekyll and Hyde Mentality when people get behind the wheel of a car... Just amazing what some people do.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cyclelicious said:


> *I haven't experienced too many unpleasant encounters on the trail.* However, I recall one time where this guy was coming up behind me on a narrow section of trail. As he got closer, I could hear him grunting and snorting ... I wasn't sure if he was asthmatic or just didn't have a bell. As he approached closer to my back wheel, I worried that he was going to hock a snotball on me, so I eased to the right and stopped at a small clearing. It was a smart move on my part because he passed me wide of the left, and he rode right through big patch of stinging nettles. Not surprisingly , he didn't thank me for being courteous









<<<< Well with that smile I can see why.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> View attachment 995098
> <<<< Well with that smile I can see why.


 Flattery will get you far


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> A van driver yelled at me this morning, calling me a f***ing idiot etc. Why do people think they have the right to abuse total strangers like that? Personally, I'd quite like a gun, so that I can gently explain to them that they do not.


I have one, but that's now what it's for.

I usually struggle not to be awestruck when somebody catches me anywhere but monotonous climbs, but I consider it to be part of my role to stay out of the way most places... then again when I'm driving I'm usually the person who actively prevents accidents others don't even know they're about to cause.

I've actually gotten comparably bad reactions coming around limited visibility corners and having to whoa up massively not to rear end people on bikes - end result is usually them panicking and moving out of the way, but most of the time I'm extremely content to just lurk behind them 20ft and actually catch my breath, most often slower riders pull of to let me through leaving me feeling obligated to keep hauling more, rather than what I'd prefer (wait until a big wide open spot I know is coming, where I'll have caught my breath).


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Many of us are more likely to be a-holes when we're not accountable - on the web or behind a wheel of a car. The hate comes out, the lizard brain takes over. I know my lizard brain kicks in when faced with a-hole drivers. On the web it's not a problem for me. 

Mr. Pig, given how many people kill each other over small issues that escalate, I hope your flip remarks about guns are just that.


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## Golfster (Apr 9, 2015)

I haven't encountered any rage when passing, but have when getting passed. This has been the case a few times when on my road bike near the end of my ride when a peloton comes passing by. At that point, I'm riding for distance but they are race training. I've heard a few testorone induced expletives hurled my way encouraging me to race, ride faster or get out of their way. As for comments from drivers, that isn't uncommon even though this is considered a cycling friendly community. 

I did have one memorable encounter with a driver as I was out of the saddle on an incline. I could sense a car lagging in their lane just behind me. I was in the bike lane and tried to move farther to the right in case they were having trouble passing, but they continued to linger. Finally, the car, an SL550, pulls to my side and the driver, a woman, yells "nice a--" (I was in full kit) and waves with a smile as she slowly passes. Then, just ahead, she turned on her blinker and slowly turned into the coffee shop ahead. I turned in as well as I wanted to discuss her attitude with her. I guess it is all about interpretation because it turned out to be a nice experience.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Yesterday evening I was riding down the trail and started hearing this awful creaking, I thought to myself: my bike doesn't creak like that, I looked back and there was a guy right behind me, so I pulled off and let him pass. After a "thank you" from him, I tried to catch him, but he was gone just as fast as he came up on me.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Golfster said:


> and the driver, a woman, yells "nice a--" (I was in full kit) and waves with a smile as she slowly passes.


Three, two, one ... Cue spandex discussion.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Spandex is for roadies


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## RIVER29 (Mar 12, 2012)

I commonly get frustrated comments from other trail users and have found a common denominator for most of it. Whether is hikers, riders, or equestrians, when they totally stop paying attention... day dreaming instead of taking into account for the fact that they are on a public trail, they get startled no matter how I announce myself. A startled persons first reaction a lot of the time is a sarcastic, "Thanks for slowing down" or, "You could have announced your self sooner". Ironically, I usually announce my self a half a dozen times before they ever hear me then get blamed because they didn't catch on till I was ten feet away. I just let it go, tell them to have a nice day, and keep riding.


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## CaptDan (Jun 26, 2013)

This thread kind of surprises me, as I've never experienced Trail Rage and therefore didn't know it existed.

It could be because of the guy we ride with; he will always make our presence known by commenting "Beautiful day for a ride, yeah?" in a conversational tone, or saying "Nice pace!" or some other complement.

By doing this he never comes across as aggressive, but instead as a fellow rider, just out there like everyone else, putting in their best effort.
EVERYBODY gets a friendly greeting from him; riders, walkers, stoners, everybody.

Plus, our cycling community -- from seasoned riders to newbies -- share a Friends of the Foxhole-type camaraderie. Between the inattentive drivers and capricious weather, everyone seems to understand that we all have bigger things to worry about.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

My advise: Don't take on other peoples issues as your own unles you're trained to do so. You're only in control of yourself so focus on that.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

some people believe that slower riders need to get out of the way of faster riders....

On our trails which are fully public....I beleive noone should have to get off their bikes to allow someone else to pass...

There are always plenty of passing places that come up frequently enough, and if the passer doesn't have the skill, desire, or aerobics to use them then they can simply relax until the next one.

That said if someone wants to get off their bike to let someone pass then fine...

Unfortunately this tends to lead to some people bulliing new riders...and that is really bad.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

OddTrickStar said:


> Where do you live that some folks don't understand how a bell works?


Ever been to DC?

the old joke: how many washintonians does it take to change a lightbulb?
One, he holds the bulb and the universe just revolves around her.

Many of the people I see on the trail, I don't believe have any concept that other people exist; and they sometimes get rage when something snaps them out of that fantasy.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The only people I've experienced being at all hostile are hikers/walkers. They seem to have an air of entitlement about them and resent the presence of bikes, even on bike trails! Don't get me wrong, most of them are nice but there are the odd few who are pains.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

CaptDan said:


> It could be because of the guy we ride with; he will always make our presence known by commenting "Beautiful day for a ride, yeah?" in a conversational tone, or saying "Nice pace!" or some other complement.
> 
> By doing this he never comes across as aggressive, but instead as a fellow rider, just out there like everyone else, putting in their best effort. EVERYBODY gets a friendly greeting from him; riders, walkers, stoners, everybody.


I think this is a great point. Being friendly and courteous always helps the cause. And when approaching hikers or asking to pass a slower rider, communication and patience are key.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Gasp4Air said:


> I think this is a great point. Being friendly and courteous always helps the cause. And when approaching hikers or asking to pass a slower rider, communication and patience are key.


Good start. Except when approaching I Pod Zombies. Totally shut out the world. I'm always saying good morning/afternoon. Especially around horses. I never get why people want to get out in nature only to blast music or whatever. One walking guy, dirt path, I started with my bell and a good morning, got nothing. After three times I am literally shouting right behind him. No response, still riding I tapped him on the shoulder, he jumped a mile. I just pedaled pass him.


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## Carton (Sep 15, 2014)

Cornfield said:


> Yesterday evening I was riding down the trail and started hearing this awful creaking, I thought to myself: my bike doesn't creak like that, I looked back and there was a guy right behind me, so I pulled off and let him pass. After a "thank you" from him, I tried to catch him, but he was gone just as fast as he came up on me.


Yeah, this happened to me the other day. At first I thought I finally needed to change my secondhand cleats. Then it got so loud I started to really worry about my BB. Finally I saw the guy in an old black roadie kit and a matte-black s-works bike and let him trough. 8-9% incline, dude was on his big ring and a middle cog, just absolutely rocketed past me.

Nice bike, sure, but I was a little down about being so thoroughly outclassed by someone who clearly didn't take his biking seriously. So I caught up with a friend at the next hilltop and asked him if he had heard the creak on that bike. "Yeah, ex-pros take sh!t care of their bikes."


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

AndrwSwitch said:


> The thing that I sometimes notice is when people chase on to me when I'm riding. That plays out a few different ways. There are the guys that huff and puff their way onto my rear wheel when I'm mountain biking, which is usually no big deal. Then there are the guys who silently chase on and get in my draft on the road. I don't like that because...


In the past I've done a bit of following - nothing creepy, usually just after a faster rider passed me I'd do my best to keep up just for the challenge of it, following maybe 50-100 feet behind just trying to maintain their pace. Usually doesn't last all that long, but it's fun. I can also watch how they handle their bike and try to emulate. I can also now go faster without fear of coming up on someone around a blind corner b/c now I have an extra set of eyes. 

If someone ever stopped and asked, I'd just tell 'em what I'm up to but mostly they're all too happy to just go on their way.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> The only people I've experienced being at all hostile are hikers/walkers. They seem to have an air of entitlement about them and resent the presence of bikes, even on bike trails! Don't get me wrong, most of them are nice but there are the odd few who are pains.


With a few exceptions , I haven't encountered MTBers who act "hostile" per se, but I've encountered plenty of MTBers who have brushed me off either not yielding, of blown by off the trail while descending. I'm not a big hiker, but on times when I've been out on foot on multi use trails, about half the MTBers encountered yield the trail as they are supposed to and more than a few have pretty much run me off the trail.

I've encountered a LOT of entitled behavior from MTBers, and it's from all sorts - lycra XC racer types, Baggy brahs, full face and body armor, you name it. I think a lot of hikers have a problem with MTBers because they've had a lot of negative experiences with a small, but not insignificant percentage of the group.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

zrm said:


> I think a lot of hikers have a problem with MTBers because they've had a lot of negative experiences with a small, but not insignificant percentage of the group.


I agree. Pretty much the only negative encounter I've had on the mountain bike was a minor one with a perturbed hiker and I have a feeling she hated me before she saw me, and that there was a good chance some previous riders may have set the tone for that hatred.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> I agree. Pretty much the only negative encounter I've had on the mountain bike was a minor one with a perturbed hiker and I have a feeling she hated me before she saw me, and that there was a good chance some previous riders may have set the tone for that hatred.


If they happen to be elderly & bearded Sierra Club members, then you stand no chance of endearing them. Smile, wave, ignore and ride fast.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Just thought I'd add a nice anecdote to all the bad ones... Yesterday a hiker stopped as I passed and said 'have I seen you before?' I said 'yes, I recognize your dogs.' He introduced himself and shook my hand. It only took a minute or so at the most, but what a great encounter.


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## ConchoBill (Jan 12, 2015)

My first real mt bike day was earlier this year at the San Angelo, Texas, State Park which is a very nice place to bike, but has a lot of prickly pear cactus. It has nice long trails, with some tough, technical places. I was going fairly fast through the cactus, when I noticed a serious guy going fast through the cactus at me. I had to go through some cactus to get off the trail to prevent an almost head on. He then stopped, and we had a nice long talk. It started off a cool in temp day, and as nerdy as I was, I was fairly happy to have worn jeans for the ride, mainly because they protected me from the cactus.

But he was an experienced guy and I am a noob mt biker.l


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Whenever I catch up to a slower rider/group I say loudly "Pass when able" or "Pass when possible" and then just chill and wait for them to allow the pass. I've _never_ had a negative reaction doing it this way.


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## mtnbiker67 (Jan 10, 2008)

Has anyone ever had a person come behind them and just yell "STRAVA"? Not a "hey on your left" not a "hey mind if I pass" but just a loud yell of "STRAVA" Had it happen to me last year on a local trail while riding with some buddies. We all turned on the gas and stayed with him just to let him know that he wasn't as fast as he thought! 

I guess that's the douchebag way of saying "get out of my way, I'm going for a PR so I can post it on Facebook!!


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## SimonsJ (Apr 23, 2011)

*Roll some Thunder!*

If I know I'm going to be riding a heavily travelled route on a day that is sure to be packed... I only ride Fat or Anorexic. Both my fatty and CX have dog toy monsters zip-tied to the stem as my bell. When people hear the "thunder" of those 4.6" Ground Controls roll up on them, well... it communicates really well. I am often shocked at how early people pull over for a pass when I'm not even on them yet. A nice Squeek on the "horn" with a smile and "thanks" is all it takes for a positive trail encounter. The CX is a little different... its so quiet that when I squeek the horn and ask "when you get a chance", the surprise that someone is behind them usually encourages a rapid pull off. The ability of that bike to accelerate instantaneously, along with really narrow bars, makes passes so quick that I never hear anything after my "Thanks! Have a great ride!"

Roll some thunder or be more Ninja-esque, but always say "thanks".


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## Crazydad (Jun 30, 2011)

Sadly there will always bee people that go off whenever someone throws off their groove. Which you should expect on a public, mixed use trail. All you can do is manage your own reaction to them. Best thing I have found is a sincere apology and then create some distance (either passing them or letting them pass you). The key word is "sincere". Bowing up and getting sarcastic/confrontational because they were rude to you does no good and at best will spoil your ride and at worst lead to a fight. Best to just say sorry and let them go on their way. Don't let an idiot spoil your mood.


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## Oakeshott (Nov 1, 2012)

When I see a group up ahead, a one time ring with an incredibell usually works for me. For trails with a lot of traffic, I switch to cowbells which works like a charm.


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## sjhiker (Apr 25, 2008)

I just rerouted the battery/altenator from my eBike to a compressor which powers my airhorn....


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Pretty amazing:






I know it's already been said, but "on your left" "rider up" etc, not good for the general public. Heck, large majority of bikers do not race, and have no clue what that means.

I have great luck with "How's it going today?" " Great day to be in the woods!" etc.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

jugdish said:


> your problem, you stopped to listen.


this!!!


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Here's a random question I often ponder on the trails; should I be saying 'thank you' to those who let me pass or 'sorry'? I know it's a dumb distinction, but since riding often lets your mind wander to really meaningless topics I've given it some considerable thought. 

Does 'thank you' have an air of entitlement to it? Is 'sorry' too submissive, implying that I've done something wrong?


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## ybiker (Dec 9, 2008)

I keep a bear bell on my handlebars. It gives humans and animals plenty of warning that I'm approaching. Animals now cross far enough ahead of me that they aren't an issue. I gave up on "On Your Left", even though that was our team name, and now call out "Passing on your left". I also exchange pleasantries while passing quickly so as to not be in the way.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

TheDwayyo said:


> Here's a random question I often ponder on the trails; should I be saying 'thank you' to those who let me pass or 'sorry'? I know it's a dumb distinction, but since riding often lets your mind wander to really meaningless topics I've given it some considerable thought.
> 
> Does 'thank you' have an air of entitlement to it? Is 'sorry' too submissive, implying that I've done something wrong?


If you're doing it right, thank you is in order. If you're doing it wrong and need to apologize, then sorry.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

mtnbiker67 said:


> Has anyone ever had a person come behind them and just yell "STRAVA"? Not a "hey on your left" not a "hey mind if I pass" but just a loud yell of "STRAVA" Had it happen to me last year on a local trail while riding with some buddies. We all turned on the gas and stayed with him just to let him know that he wasn't as fast as he thought!
> 
> I guess that's the douchebag way of saying "get out of my way, I'm going for a PR so I can post it on Facebook!!


That is good stuff. I think I might start using this in our group rides for laughs. I have had allot of experience as both passing and passed. I am surprised the group was not thankful you passed. I would prefer to let faster riders by so I do not have to worry about my 6 from a rider i do not know. Plus you dont feel obligated to go faster than you might be comfortable with.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

TheDwayyo said:


> Here's a random question I often ponder on the trails; should I be saying 'thank you' to those who let me pass or 'sorry'? I know it's a dumb distinction, but since riding often lets your mind wander to really meaningless topics I've given it some considerable thought.
> 
> Does 'thank you' have an air of entitlement to it? Is 'sorry' too submissive, implying that I've done something wrong?


Saying "Thanks" is appropriate. Impatience and rudeness are not, and reek of self importance and entitlement.


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## cassiopia (Nov 29, 2009)

I am often the slower rider particularly going up hill, I hate to ruin another persons fun. I let riders pass me all of the time, I always let groups by and riders ripping a downhill section, after all that's the fun part. I too have encountered plenty of people slower than me who do not yield, I am simply going to forgive their ignorance and plod long at their pace and hope the next time I am on the trail they aren't. You came across a group of riders who feel entitled to do as they wish without concern for others, given time they might mature and become decent riders and trail advocates, but most likely they will give up mountainbiking and go back to watching sport on the TV.


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

I was on my local XC trail when a rider came up on me. He said "rider up". I waved to let him know I heard him. We are buggin' along at about 12mph climbing through a fairly dense and curvy Cholla forest. About 15 seconds go by and as I round the next bend I hear him say "RIDER UP!"

Now there wasn't really any place that was easily wide enough for a safe pass without me coming to a complete stop. But he was insistent enough to say it twice and say it rude, so I stopped, HARD and FAST. He stopped too and put his knuckles in a Cholla to avoid running me down. I dismounted, walked my bike a few paces to a small clearing. As he passed he says, "Thanks A LOT!" In as sarcastic of a tone as he could muster I guess. I just smirked. I'm usually not an ******* but sometimes an ******* brings out the worst in me.

The cherry on top. He was wearing a full Strava kit. I kid you not. 

I think the OP was ok in the way he handled the situation but there will always be that one guy...

I usually call out something like "Good Morning" or "Beautiful day isn't it?" By saying something that usually gets a response. It lets them know I'm there and lets me know they heard me. Then I just spin and wait until they slow or stop. It's pretty rare I come up on someone going down. But in that case I just do the same thing or wait until a B lines pops up that I can make a clean pass on.


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## JPHOYLE (Sep 24, 2005)

These are the same people, probably newbies, that rework the trail to make technical sections easier, sections that more experienced riders enjoy riding for the challenge. Newbies can adopt the 'pack mentality' too which just adds to their entitlement. I once had a noob tell me that uphill must yield to downhill! So much for trail etiquette.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

Pet peeve of mine:

Rider up = someone in front of you heading your way on the trail
Rider back = someone behind you about to pass


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

If I startle a hiker or have a close encounter at a blind corner, sorry! Otherwise, thanks & have a great day works well.



TheDwayyo said:


> Here's a random question I often ponder on the trails; should I be saying 'thank you' to those who let me pass or 'sorry'? I know it's a dumb distinction, but since riding often lets your mind wander to really meaningless topics I've given it some considerable thought.
> 
> Does 'thank you' have an air of entitlement to it? Is 'sorry' too submissive, implying that I've done something wrong?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Gasp4Air said:


> Three, two, one ... Cue spandex discussion.


Dear Penthouse,

You're not going to believe this...


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## dynamicz (Sep 14, 2007)

Came here to say that Varaxis is one of the nicest dudes I've ever met. I don't understand why anyone would yell at him.

But on the other hand, I have noticed that the past 5 years that I have seen an influx of new riders that don't understand trail etiquette; "on your left", not yielding to uphill riders or hikers and generally just giving mtn bikers a bad name. It totally sucks because it is giving us a bad name... now I realize now why trails get banned for us (amoung other reasons). Some riders I run into on trails are Strava dudes going for PR's... it's not a polite "on your left," it was "out of the way!" and riders with BOTH earphones in and cannot hear me request for pass... and when I do, they are upset that I spooked them. Majority of other riders I meet are friendly.

Either way I will do my duty to borrow my dogs bell on the trails, yield to hikers and saying "on your left" and 'thank you" on my rides.


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## Hoffmonster (Aug 19, 2014)

I have never run across this before, but I can see it happening. I golf too and etiquette is a learned behavior for sure, even before I learned all the ins and outs of trail riding I always let a faster better rider by. That way I could push myself a little bit see what they were doing etc. Always look at an opportunity to learn from better riders ALWAYS! I think you handled it well based on what you've written here. I would just passed them when they stopped to suck air.


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## sl1_matt (Apr 12, 2009)

Bell and "On Your Left" while heading downhill. Pushing the pace and using bell from behind and forcing them to peel off for going uphill. Nothing is more insulting than having a faster rider click a bell at you to publicly shame these Sallies.


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## Hoffmonster (Aug 19, 2014)

dynamicz said:


> yield to hikers and saying "on your left" and 'thank you" on my rides.


I always do this. 90-95% of the time I always get a "thank you" back. the other 5-10% are wearing headphones and never heard me. (dangerous when you know bikes share the trail)
Something about that respect and appreciation for everyone that makes the ride just a little more enjoyable..


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Justin MD said:


> I was on my local XC trail when a rider came up on me. He said "rider up". I waved to let him know I heard him. We are buggin' along at about 12mph climbing through a fairly dense and curvy Cholla forest. About 15 seconds go by and as I round the next bend I hear him say "RIDER UP!"
> 
> Now there wasn't really any place that was easily wide enough for a safe pass without me coming to a complete stop. But he was insistent enough to say it twice and say it rude, so I stopped, HARD and FAST. He stopped too and put his knuckles in a Cholla to avoid running me down. I dismounted, walked my bike a few paces to a small clearing. As he passed he says, "Thanks A LOT!" In as sarcastic of a tone as he could muster I guess. I just smirked. I'm usually not an ******* but sometimes an ******* brings out the worst in me.
> 
> ...


Nice! 
Unfortunately it's just going to get worse with more and more Strava users. What sucks is not just the effects this has on regular riders but other trail users. How many Strava users are out there flying past hikers and equestrians [throwing trail etiquette aside] just to keep their times up. Pissing off others who share the trail is just going to have negative effects on our sport.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

F*CK Strava! 

I mean really is it "stealing" one's fun to 'GASP' just take a moment and let beginners run ahead long enough to give one a good run or to to find a safe moment to pass other riders? When you come up to them if they haven't moved aside (because maybe they didn't notice you) ask them if you can pass (on your right or left), I have never come across another rider that said no, NEVER. Say thanks and move on. Didn't our mommies teach us this stuff...


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

bdamschen said:


> Pet peeve of mine:
> 
> Rider up = someone in front of you heading your way on the trail
> Rider back = someone behind you about to pass


Yup, kind of weird to hear that people use Rider Up! when they want to pass. The only time I utter those words is when I am riding around a blind corner where some oblivious douche may crash into me head-on.


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## MTBWolfe (Jun 12, 2015)

Hey all,
First I'd like to say that slower does not equate to lesser skilled. Everyone has their own up speed and down speed. I'm slower than some and faster than others going up, and probably faster than most going down. 
Anyway about the following. One of you guys mentioned communication and that for me is the key. That and and just being nice. Some a**holes will tailgate and climb right up my ass and never mention they are back there. If I turn around and see someone an inch from my tire it stresses me out. It really does not make me happy in the least (okay, it pisses me off) because this is rude and inconsiderate. It's not that you are more skilled than me, you're just riding at your up speed which is faster than mine. If someone is coming up on me and gives me fair warning I will look for the next place I can let you by and have much respect and gratitude for that gesture. If you're rude and like the above mentioned a**hole Id rather see you tumble right back down that hill. Remember I'm riding too so whether your in front, or behind, just be cordial and we'll all have a great time.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

MTBWolfe said:


> It's not that you are more skilled than me, you're just riding at your up speed which is faster than mine.


Call it whatever you want. One person is going faster than the other. Skill, fitness, risk-taking tolerance, better equipment, it doesn't matter.

Who cares what the reason is. If they're faster than you, let them pass. If you're faster and catch up to someone, announce yourself and wait for an opportunity to pass safely.


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## Dave Campbell (Jul 21, 2010)

I always use an Amsterdam bell especially for mixed use trails for hikers. I have never gotten a bad response from it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ColinL said:


> Call it whatever you want. One person is going faster than the other. Skill, fitness, risk-taking tolerance, better equipment, it doesn't matter.
> 
> Who cares what the reason is. If they're faster than you, let them pass. If you're faster and catch up to someone, announce yourself and wait for an opportunity to pass safely.


This^^
In a cordial manner and vice versa. Fock we are all out to have fun and get away from the every day stresses. Nothing sucks more than being out on a long awaited ride and run into someone with attitude. Treat others with respect and you'll have the same returned.

It's not that hard people, get with the program.

6 pages of bichen and moaning that the other guy was in the wrong. Really? Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming the other guy.

A little trail etiquette goes a long way. Learn the rules of the road and abide by them. If everybody did this we wouldn't be 6 pages in, whining.


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## hippymtnbkr (Jun 5, 2007)

On your left is a term used on the road when passing, so you don't force the passey into traffic. Trail riders should just let it be known that there passing. I always let faster riders pass. But I refuse to move to the right and give up a good line just so you can pass on the left. When someone yells rider up. In start searching around to see who's up in front of me. Don't say stuff that you think is cool, just speak your intentions. It's is easiest. For yall that don't say anything, don't get upset when I drift into you. We are all out there for fun and fitness, you shouldn't expect someone to dismount just because your faster. The good riders are the ones who can pass effortlessly no matter who's on the trails. If it's hard to pass. Continue to work on and hone your skills


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## MTBWolfe (Jun 12, 2015)

ColinL said:


> Call it whatever you want. One person is going faster than the other. Skill, fitness, risk-taking tolerance, better equipment, it doesn't matter.
> 
> Who cares what the reason is. If they're faster than you, let them pass. If you're faster and catch up to someone, announce yourself and wait for an opportunity to pass safely.


Isn't that what I said?


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## WillN (Jun 5, 2014)

TheDwayyo said:


> Well with a bell curve, which intelligence is, it would be incorrect to say that half the population is below average. The majority of the population is actually average, hence it being the mean score. The amount below would be less than half.


Hmm. Not exactly. There are three common ways to measure averages: mean, median, and mode. Median is the middle value--half below, half above.

Mountain bikers skew well below, apparently.


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## MTBWolfe (Jun 12, 2015)

Mountain Biking Etiquette and Bigfoot - WTF WTF


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

MTBWolfe said:


> Isn't that what I said?


Actually, you pointed out twice that it wasn't that you are lesser-skilled (which is in this thread's title) and that someone who catches you is merely going a different pace which happens to be faster.

That and the rest of your post indicated to me that you don't like to be thought of as lesser-skilled. Fine.

Personally, I have no hangups about it. I'm riding for my own sake and care not about who is better or worse at whatever. If you're behind me, you should go through, and if I'm behind you then you should let me through. No judgment needed.


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## cobi (Apr 29, 2008)

leeboh said:


> Good start. Except when approaching I Pod Zombies. Totally shut out the world. I'm always saying good morning/afternoon. Especially around horses. I never get why people want to get out in nature only to blast music or whatever. One walking guy, dirt path, I started with my bell and a good morning, got nothing. After three times I am literally shouting right behind him. No response, still riding I tapped him on the shoulder, he jumped a mile. I just pedaled pass him.


Had this happen a while back, usually they eventually notice you but I got behind a jogger on single track and she was just absolutely clueless I was back there, I kept announcing myself louder and louder until I was screaming. I was laughing and thinking" how loud does she have her music"?

Finally I saw a faint cow path off to the right and just went around her shaking my head. First time I've ever purposely ridden off trail but there was no corners or passing areas coming up and she wasn't apparently gonna check behind her anytime soon. I'm sure she now tells people about "that time the jerk mountain biker just rode right off trail around her.....". I seriously considered just lurking right behind her shouting for as long as it took and eventually scaring the crap out of her...... but decided that was probably a worse idea.


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## sooners86 (Jun 12, 2015)

I agree, faster riders should be able to ride as fast as they want, and slower riders should be able to ride as slow as they want. I was at a mountain bike race the other day, and was told that faster rides can pass anytime they want, providing they don't cause the slower riders to have to leave the trail or slow down in any way. That means, that even if a slower rider is in the way, the faster ride must wait until he can pass safely with enough room so that the slower rider doesn't have to adjust his speed, or lack thereof, at all. One of the reasons why many of the "grasshopper-level" riders, as you so eloquently put it, resent the faster riders, is that some of the fast riders like to get right behind the slower riders almost touching wheels and basically force them off the trail so they can pass. Many don't even say anything, they just sit back there bullying the slower rider until they either have to speed up, or get off the trail. Once they pass there is no "thanks man." The other side of that coin is when a slower rider tries to block a faster rider from passing. Now in a race situation, I would say this is ok, if both riders are getting close to the finish line, but in any other situation, the faster rider has a right to be pissed. Both sides need to realize that neither of them own the trail, nor have any more right to their own pace than the other. My pace is right in the middle between fast and slow. When I find myself in front of a faster rider, I usually pull over and let them pass once I come to a suitable spot in the trail to do so safely. Most of the faster riders say thanks and go on. Both sides are happy. If I'm passing someone slower, I ALWAYS say thanks and pass them safely allowing them plenty of space to pull over. If we always look out for each other and practice the golden rule, there won't be any pissed off riders. The trails are for everyone from novice to expert. Remember, even the experts started out slow at first.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

I actually had a similar experience with my son at a local park just this am. There was a girl who was all bent outta shape cause someone had the audacity to be in HER park, she was quite upset and wasn't grasping the concept of sharing the park with others. My son is 2, and the "park" was a local playground; the girl was seven and while I found her reaction a bit off putting I understand that she is about 7 years old, and this behavior is not unheard of. I would expect more out of a grown a$$ adult rocking a mtb for fun with his buddys.... They musta been roadies doing there weekly Mtn ride.

I usually sit on until a clean line is available, more often than not slower guys are aware and pull off and tell you to take it. If I do find a spot where I plan to pass, I make it clear "gonna pass on your left" and wait for a confirmation that it's "cool"; again most of the mtb community is on board with this protocol. If their not, than they can pound sand. Being a dick doesn't make you a bigger person or. Better mountain biker


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I don't know you and you're probably a nice guy. But I just don't understand your thought process here. The other rider was clearly faster and wanted to pass you. Now, maybe you didn't like his tone or whatever, I wasn't there. But why not just stop, pull off as best you can and let the dude pass you?

I do that anytime a faster climber announces behind me. Just seems like a normal thing to do.



Justin MD said:


> I was on my local XC trail when a rider came up on me. He said "rider up". I waved to let him know I heard him. We are buggin' along at about 12mph climbing through a fairly dense and curvy Cholla forest. About 15 seconds go by and as I round the next bend I hear him say "RIDER UP!"
> 
> Now there wasn't really any place that was easily wide enough for a safe pass without me coming to a complete stop. But he was insistent enough to say it twice and say it rude, so I stopped, HARD and FAST. He stopped too and put his knuckles in a Cholla to avoid running me down. I dismounted, walked my bike a few paces to a small clearing. As he passed he says, "Thanks A LOT!" In as sarcastic of a tone as he could muster I guess. I just smirked. I'm usually not an ******* but sometimes an ******* brings out the worst in me.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

When passing, I usually say something along the lines of, "Hi lovelies!" or "Beautiful day!"

Then, "whenever you feel comfortable..." especially for those riders who appear to be struggling or are beginners (this is very common; at 10K, most of the climbs out in CB will make even the most skilled riders a little breathless). 

Sometimes a, "that's one hell of a climb - you're doing great!" or a "keep rockin' it!" are said in passing. 

When I am passed, sayings like these are often shared along with a "have a great ride!" I strive to get over as soon as it is safe to do so.

Most interactions are awesome. There have been a few negative ones - often from out of towners who are physically/emotionally struggling and getting passed by a gal is the last straw (strange things, egos) - but I can count these interactions on one hand. It doesn't have anything to do with me or you or anyone else - those in a bad mood will select others to blame that mood on. 

It is important to note, especially on the dh, that even if you are in complete control, beginners would still be very nervous if passed at speed, especially in technical sections. This could even cause them to lose focus/balance and stumble.

Let them know you are there, track stand it, and pass when they feel comfortable. This equates to a better experience for everyone.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Being an @$$hole sometimes works best..I would let them vent then say....I was trying to be polite but next time I will hoot and holler on your butt and then pressure you to crash...in case you are knocked out..can you please tell me where your wallet is because I don't want to waste time looking for your stuff trying because you already wasted my time by not letting me pass


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## mca90guitar (Apr 2, 2015)

I let everyone faster then me go by, hate having some random person riding behind me the whole time.

Cant please everyone, public land and no rule saying you can pass the slow people.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

For a while, the moment when one of the more dominant women on my team passed me was one of my milestones at races. Not so much lately, but that's because she has a nagging back problem. In good form, she's probably still faster. I always called out something hopefully encouraging at that point. Turns out catching me was something that always cheered her up too. 

It will probably surprise nobody to hear that I usually wear matching team kit when I ride. I would feel a bit odd wearing Strava or a trade team, though. It's hard for me to put my finger on why. People wear their favorite basketball, football, soccer, hockey, whatever players' jerseys all the time.

Anyway, I kinda see a Strava or trade team jersey the same way I see those tee shirts with intimidating slogans on them that people wear to run - everyone on a team accumulates kit items pretty quickly and stops owning other stuff, let alone paying boatloads of money for Strava kit. And half the 5ks seem to give you yet another running shirt. So in either case, people who are pinning a number on regularly don't own that stuff.

The mismatched team kit dudes are the ones to really watch out for. 

I could swear I was going somewhere - I think going racing from time to time helps me maintain some perspective about what is and isn't racing. Do I get a kick of seeing my name on a leader board? Sure, I guess. But I don't think slowing down for a moment and passing nicely has much affect on my workout. Not much affect on a Strava time either, I think.

I think people mostly just don't like to be startled. For a while, I had a little bear bell on my bike. People usually really liked that. I did have one woman I caught late in an endurance race react pretty negatively to it, though. I think maybe she heard it for a long time before I got close enough to pass.


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## Swaney67 (Mar 12, 2015)

Obviously you ran into some people that are yet to learn proper riding etiquette. I hope they learn soon!!


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## singletrackpursuits (Aug 9, 2004)

Not everyone is out ripping up the trail, running race pace, and looking for the next challenge. I used to ride this way 15 years ago, but middle age, and responsibilities have changed how I ride, and now a trail ride is a welcome reward. Riding with your regular group of buddies is great, ad you all know how each other handles the trail, and it is easy to learn to anticipate their moves. I can see how strangers may be a little put off when someone motors up on them, especially if they are still newer riders and developing their skills. Road rage is running rampant, so it is safe to assume that same mentality will surface everywhere, even in the woods. Sad, but I think is what we've come to a a society. Basically, note to self, try to take it as a lesson learned, and tread more lightly around strangers. For instance, I know guys who ride, packing a small pistol, so hopefully we don't read stories about those kind of escalations. It is tough to switch off the shred mode, and turn into the polite and cordial bike path rider for a few minutes, but sometimes you need to.


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## Calman_06 (Mar 11, 2014)

It sounds as tho those slower riders need to chill some. You did all you could to attempt to pass, announcing yourself. 
I would like to add that while on the trail mountain bikers more skilled on technical sections should also announce their selfs. Recently I had had some biker attempt to pass me on a rocky section where I chose the wrong line and almost fell into him. Had he announced he was behind me I most likely would have let him pass before attempting that section. It's common courtesy to do this in my opinion. I got mad and told him this, his statement was I chose the wrong line which I knew. All I can say is please announce yourself when riding up behind people on the trails especially on rocky technical sections.


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## thebigred67 (Mar 29, 2005)

EugeneTheJeep said:


> Get a bell or one of those clown horns  honk honk!


Or the compressed air horns. They will be too busy cleaning crap outta the shorts to ***** at you.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

singletrackpursuits said:


> Not everyone is out ripping up the trail, running race pace, and looking for the next challenge. I used to ride this way 15 years ago, but middle age, and responsibilities have changed how I ride, and now a trail ride is a welcome reward. Riding with your regular group of buddies is great, ad you all know how each other handles the trail, and it is easy to learn to anticipate their moves. I can see how strangers may be a little put off when someone motors up on them, especially if they are still newer riders and developing their skills. Road rage is running rampant, so it is safe to assume that same mentality will surface everywhere, even in the woods. Sad, but I think is what we've come to a a society. Basically, note to self, try to take it as a lesson learned, and tread more lightly around strangers. For instance, I know guys who ride, packing a small pistol, so hopefully we don't read stories about those kind of escalations. It is tough to switch off the shred mode, and turn into the polite and cordial bike path rider for a few minutes, but sometimes you need to.


 I drive a civic, but I have a friend with a Porsche (ya know the one with the big whale tail). His motor is bigger than mine, more power, acceleration, etc etc. my civic is steady, but that porsche likes to go fast. 
The point is his car is faster (obviously) and we all know it; and no one cares. 
I guess my point is one persons " race pace" is quite possibly anothers tempo ride, but... It doesn't matter!! If you are having fun, and your killing it with your crew, you are a great bike rider. Some dudes take it to another level, and I'm down with that!! It makes our sport/hobby/lifestyle better! I still have" oh wow" moments on my bike and I've only been Mtn biking 23 years. I'm still learning, figuring sh$t out; much like my life.

For me: if I can ride 2 days a week (sometimes at 6am), it's therapy. It's all about clearing my head, hitting the reset button and finding my center again. Mountain biking is not just something I do, more importantly; being a mountain biker is something I am.

As for the pistol toting bikers out there, Im not going to debate your right to bear arms. Some of those folks seem to be more passionate about "don't tell me how I can defend myself" than anything else. Sad yes, but what I find sad is a guy pulling a piece on another person over a relatively meaningless argument. What happened to punching a motha fu€ka in the face.......


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

A lot of angst in this thread. As if a few moments or even minutes are all that big of a deal? Looks like people get cranky about every detail and possible variation of meeting someone on the trail. Even racing and Stravaing are being included in the mix. I think Calman_06 sums it up by saying slower riders need to chill and then having a little rant about people not passing him appropriately! You can't win on this topic. It reminds me of a newspaper cartoon with lots of Viking ships out. Every one of them has the same thought bubble - "Lots of jerks out today!"


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

If someone passes me, it'll be on the climb...

Despite the look on my dial.

I'm not angry at that them, I'm angry that I'm suffering!

Sent from my Kin[G]_Pad ™


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

To the OP: Next time, Air Horn!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Can someone please advise what the accepted trail etiquette is for this? 

On ups or flats, when I come upon one or more riders in front and want to pass, I usually say "Hey, just going to squeeze by on your left whenever you are ready" and when I pass, I always say "just give me a yell if you want to pass me." That always seems to work fine.

It's when I'm on the downs that all **** breaks loose. So many times it seems to become an ego thing. The person in front won't slow or veer to the right. To the contrary, they often hit the gas and try to leave me in their dust. After that does not work out so well for them, they pull over, look at me with this WTF look on their face as I pass, and sometimes say something like "Hey - quit riding my ass". What is up with that? I suspect we all like to open it up on downs. It kinda sucks to pay the price of an hour long (or more) heinous climb only to be stuck riding at half or 3/4 speed on some totally awesome downs. 

I try to not let things like this screw up my ride, but sometimes it gets to me a bit, and sometimes I can't resist responding to any smart ass comments that are thrown my way. 

It really detracts from the whole Zen thing :bluefrown:


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I spent a winter playing "ski bum" and with the prospect of dozens more ski days out in front of me, I felt less pressure to squeeze every last run out of my ski day. So I'd just wait for things I wanted to hit to clear out. The funny thing is that it usually doesn't take that long, and I don't think I've ended up getting fewer runs in a day. But they're better. 

I apply the same thing to mountain biking when I can. If I get to the top of something and there's people starting to hit it, I just hang out and wait. I'll give them 30 seconds or so. I like to think I'm fast, but given how long a descent lasts, that tends to be enough.

I'm also lucky enough to be able to go mountain biking about four times a week these days. So when I chase onto someone and I'm not racing, I just drag a little brake and give them a couple bike lengths - hopefully a non-intimidating distance. Sometimes when I'm descending, it's all I can do just to keep my **** together and the rubber side down. I figure if someone's slower than me and I'm chasing on, they're probably in the same boat. Trying to have a conversation at this time is not productive. Either they stop and pull over in a little while anyway, making it easy to pass, or, horror of horrors, I have to do the second half of a descent slowly. I'll pass on the next climb anyway, so I can do my next descent clean.

We're all the stars of our own movies, and it can be pretty easy not to empathize with other trail users. But I think most of us have been in the shoes of multiple user groups, if only because we're married to someone who doesn't ride or our mothers like to hike or something. So when you're stuck behind someone who's not reacting as you'd like, think about when someone chases on to you and it's ambiguous whether you're hearing your bike or their bike, and you can't really understand all the words they're saying, let alone some subordinate clauses and constructions that use the wrong keyword to express an idea, and you'd really rather be concentrating on the trail. And really, if you're not competing, why are you competing? Nobody else cares how fast you can descend something. And you're saying you just want to be zen and enjoy the descent - so own that, and don't worry about if you had to wait thirty seconds at some point. You climbed over an hour for this after all, so what's an extra thirty seconds?

I really hate "on your left." About the only thing predictable about saying it is that the person in front of me is not going to move right. Now, I just match speed and say "hello" at a normal conversational volume. People don't jump, and they still yield. I feel like my interactions have been more pleasant.

It may sound specious, but if you want your rides to be more zen, just be more zen. Accept that there are other users. Accept that you are other users to the other users. And if the situation as you find it isn't to your liking, a lot of the time you can just wait several seconds and have it pass.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I spent a winter playing "ski bum" and with the prospect of dozens more ski days out in front of me, I felt less pressure to squeeze every last run out of my ski day. So I'd just wait for things I wanted to hit to clear out. The funny thing is that it usually doesn't take that long, and I don't think I've ended up getting fewer runs in a day. But they're better.
> 
> I apply the same thing to mountain biking when I can. If I get to the top of something and there's people starting to hit it, I just hang out and wait. I'll give them 30 seconds or so. I like to think I'm fast, but given how long a descent lasts, that tends to be enough.
> 
> ...


Good advice but to be totally honest, hitting the downs trying to nudge up against 100% of my capability is maximum fun for me. When I have to drive a distance to get to the trailhead and time is very precious, the last thing I want is to have my ride screwed up. With respect, your take on things is very one-sided. There is no doubt they know I am behind, that I am faster, and that I would like to pass. And I am always nothing less than 100% courteous in my approach.

I should add that I get passed as well. When I hear someone behind me (and that isn't very difficult for me to determine), I slow, veer to the extreme right as soon as I am able, and let them by. It's no fun for either of us for that person to be stuck behind me.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

So - you're entitled to something as a result? I think most people don't really care if you pass them, and will be quite happy to yield when they feel confident about it. That's not something you have any control over, though.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> So - you're entitled to something as a result? I think most people don't really care if you pass them, and will be quite happy to yield when they feel confident about it. That's not something you have any control over, though.


I don't agree with your take. Sorry. There have been numerous times when it is clear they did not want me to pass. They have easily been able to slow, veer to the right, and let me by. For them, it turned into a race.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

All that said, yeah - maybe I need to chill a bit. It wouldn't be the end of the world if I stopped mid-way down a down and waited a bit before resuming. However, I reiterate that I would NEVER do that to someone who came up behind me. I would have thought that letting someone by as soon as reasonably possible would be the obvious course of action. With pleasantries, and not some smart ass remark.

Besides, for me it's fun to follow someone as fast or faster who is in front of me on a long down. Win-win letting them by.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeah, I've had people hop on my wheel when I'm riding the road. BSNYC compared it to being at a urinal and having someone walk up and put his hand on your back - creepy. So I just sit up. People usually get on with their ride and I get on with mine. Every now and then, someone will be downright determined to ride my draft and we'll get to a speed where it's hard to balance - weird. I hear about that kind of thing from my female teammates a little more often than I'd like to. It adds a creepiness dimension.

If anyone's ever tried to block me passing on a descent, including in a race, I didn't recognize it. But then, I already have a couple things I do to try to have a little more space around myself so I can really go with it when I descend. I'm the star of my own movie too, and in my movie, I'm not dealing with traffic when I'm just riding for myself and not racing or anything.

My biggest frustration with passing lately has been in endurance races. In XC, it's usually a group of people who aren't at their first rodeo, or their second. Except for sometimes the last lap, people in my region seem to have gotten the memo that contesting passes makes both of us slower, while a couple guys further down the course are doing the real race, and people get fairly good at the shuffle that happens as people with differing skillsets work their way around the same course at the same time. Last year, I had a mishap involving a flat tire, CO2, and icing early in an endurance race, and working my way back up to the back end of my peer group, I passed a lot of people who were really not comfortable being passed on singletrack. I just kept reminding myself that it was a long day in the saddle and I was recovering a bit waiting to get around. But it's harder when I'm explicitly racing, and trying to go for my best possible time around a course. Not that I'm really racing once I've had to change a tube, reinstall a valve core, pump up my tire with a pump with bad seals, and pump up the same tire again at an aid station... CO2 really is impressively fast when it works.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Yeah, I've had people hop on my wheel when I'm riding the road. BSNYC compared it to being at a urinal and having someone walk up and put his hand on your back - creepy. So I just sit up. People usually get on with their ride and I get on with mine. Every now and then, someone will be downright determined to ride my draft and we'll get to a speed where it's hard to balance - weird. I hear about that kind of thing from my female teammates a little more often than I'd like to. It adds a creepiness dimension...


Lmao! That analogy is hilarious but yeah - I shall bear all of this in mind and will do my best to bring a more chill attitude to the trail the next time this situation presents itself. I do like to push it hard though when I am out there. I don't think that will ever change. But I also respect your thoughts on this and suspect I am being petty and way too Type A.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

If there are slower riders in front of you on a decent just...wait. Stop, have a drink and in five minutes they'll be a mile away.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I can't say that I've ever really had much problem getting around people on downhills. They usually notice I'm behind them and pull over immediately. And why wouldn't they? Who wants some stranger coming up from behind and following close for the entire downhill? And if they don't see or hear me I just ask them in a normal voice if I can get by and again, they always pull over. And of course they always get a "thank you" and a "enjoy the descent".

I'm usually somewhat skeptical when folks report widespread difficulty with passing etiquette. I have to ask if its "operator error". Look within for answers...


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Mookie said:


> ...I'm usually somewhat skeptical when folks report widespread difficulty with passing etiquette. I have to ask if its "operator error". Look within for answers...


This afternoon, I was extra polite on the trail. I also left my watch in my truck (my old skool version of Strava), ratcheted it back on the intensity level, passed a few, got passed by a few, chatted with a few and stopped mid-ride to rest a couple of minutes, listen to all the woodland creatures make all sorts of chirping noises, and breathe in all the fresh smells wafting about.

None of what I just said is terribly cohesive or relevant, but I did manage to have a great ride despite not going balls to the wall today. I consider that a good start to finding the answers within.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mtnbkrmike said:


> This afternoon, I was extra polite on the trail. I also left my watch in my truck (my old skool version of Strava), ratcheted it back on the intensity level, passed a few, got passed by a few, chatted with a few and stopped mid-ride to rest a couple of minutes, listen to all the woodland creatures make all sorts of chirping noises, and breathe in all the fresh smells wafting about.
> 
> None of what I just said is terribly cohesive or relevant, but I did manage to have a great ride despite not going balls to the wall today. I consider that a good start to finding the answers within.


Sounds like most of my rides.


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## Bruce in SoCal (Apr 21, 2013)

My personal gripe is with slow riders who ride two or three abreast on doubletrack or fire road so faster riders can't pass.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

That is annoying.

It's mostly not a big deal where I ride. My main riding spot is a working forest, so while they're sometimes paved with quarry spalls, the roads are wide and clear. But I'll sometimes come upon a big group that has stopped and scattered their bikes across the entire width of the road.


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## Grimgrin (Sep 15, 2014)

All I have to do is squeeze my avid brakes a hair when passing.


The soul rattling squeal causes all creatures before me to scatter in terror.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

If I happen upon a group of slower riders in front of me, I usually hang out for a little bit.

If they don't seem to notice me there or they don't seem to be taking any breaks, I usually just start talking to them. 

Start calling out the features, talk about the feature after you pass it. "Whew, that was close." "Shoop-da-whooooop!" Most people get it pretty quickly that you are trying to ride. That or if nothing else, they are going "Who is this kid?!" and let me pass, lol.

If they are completely oblivious and are being douchey about hoarding the trail, I usually take that time to take my water break. Hang out, get some water, let them get some distance, then hammer the gas. 

As for comments around: "Most people don't mind being passed." I would disagree. Just take a look at our road system. People are annoying all over the place with left lane squatting and forcing people to drive their speed. "I'm going fast enough, you can wait back there" mindset. Start to pass them, they speed up. Happens every day, everywhere.

Luckily in the woods, most of the people with this mindset don't have a gas pedal to be annoying with, so if you can manage to get around them, they can't usually fight you on it because their legs aren't strong enough.


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## AngryElf (Feb 12, 2014)

As someone who gets passed, allot, I do my best to pull over and let faster riders by. Its not worth getting mad. There is always someone faster and the less drama, the better for both me on my ride and the folks who blow by me on theirs.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

I came up on a group of three on an extended downhill section last week. It was twisty so I didn't see them until I was within 5 bike lengths or so - I was coming up on them fast. The last guy pulled over, but the next two sped up, so I just joined in behind them. They were holding a good pace, but I could quickly see they were barely in control.

I backed off a little, and sure enough, the lead guy went down, and the guy behind him ran into him. OOPS. At least they didn't blame me for "making" them go faster.

Everyone is making their own choices out there. If they won't pull over, I either slow down, or stop and let them get way ahead before I start up again. I always pull over for faster riders. Reason being I hate it when I have someone on my tail.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

The other day I was at the end of my ride with one last short hill back to the parking lot. A guy came up on me and said on the right. For fun I decided to race him up the hill and sprinted as hard as I could. When I got to the top I was shot but laughing and he passed me fast. Im not sure if I held him up and he was pissed or not.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

TSpice said:


> As for comments around: "Most people don't mind being passed." I would disagree. Just take a look at our road system. People are annoying all over the place with left lane squatting and forcing people to drive their speed. "I'm going fast enough, you can wait back there" mindset. Start to pass them, they speed up. Happens every day, everywhere.
> 
> Luckily in the woods, most of the people with this mindset don't have a gas pedal to be annoying with, so if you can manage to get around them, they can't usually fight you on it because their legs aren't strong enough.


I rarely, if ever, have problems with people letting me by. I completely disagree with your assertion that most people don't like getting passed. And as far as I know I've never been given the bird by somebody who I've just passed. And me personally I always let people go by, I don't particularly like a stranger following me down the trail (not to mention its the courteous thing to do).


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Mookie said:


> I rarely, if ever, have problems with people letting me by. I completely disagree with your assertion that most people don't like getting passed. And as far as I know I've never been given the bird by somebody who I've just passed. And me personally I always let people go by, I don't particularly like a stranger following me down the trail (not to mention its the courteous thing to do).


Perhaps the bikers in your area are just more polite and zen-like.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Ladmo said:


> I always pull over for faster riders. Reason being I hate it when I have someone on my tail.


+1 on that!

First race I ever did (like '96 or so) I was on my 90 Rockhopper and had just exchanged the rigid fork for a Judy XC with these wacky aftermarket air cartridges. I got behind a guy who was a rabbit at the start but had slowed considerably when we hit the singletrack. I was on his ass for 5 minutes politely asking to pass to no avail with other racers piling up behind us until we hit a hill that was just a bit wider. Well, a little shoulder bump from the side solved that. Never saw him again.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

Mookie said:


> I rarely, if ever, have problems with people letting me by. I completely disagree with your assertion that most people don't like getting passed. And as far as I know I've never been given the bird by somebody who I've just passed. And me personally I always let people go by, I don't particularly like a stranger following me down the trail (not to mention its the courteous thing to do).


In general I haven't seen it mountain biking, yet. I was referring to driving. Maybe I speed? Maybe everyone in my area are just douchebags? I don't know, but people have major angst in this area getting passed and will do anything they can to plug up traffic. (Its why I am selling my sport bike too. Passing someone just to have them swerve into you to try and block you is just dangerous. Not going to risk my life to prove a point.)

Mountain bike wise though, most people understand that everyone rides different speeds. Seems like most people are there for a workout and understand it takes different levels of intensity to achieve it.

(Also that I usually ride with a group of people, so its easier to pass as if someone in front of us is slow, they hear what sounds like a freight train barreling through the woods, lol.)


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