# brainstorm: fat cargo bike



## broken_cynic (Jul 9, 2008)

*cross-posted to cargo and fat bike forums in order to get different perspectives. if that's not kosher, then please to be deleting the thread under cargo bikes. thanks!*

I read Devo's musings about crossing the best attributes of two of his favorite bikes, the Pugsley and the Big Dummy some time ago, but the idea really clicked for me when I ran across pictures of the Big Dumb Pug on flickr. I want one. I want a sexy beast of a longtail bike on fat tires. A bicycle somewhere in between monster truck and parade float, that has a bit of '57 Chevy (or perhaps it's '60 Cadillac?) running through its veins. One with frame-integrated rear racks like the Yubo Mundo/Kona Ute rather than a bolted on XtraCycle kit (though compatability with the XtraCycle accessories would be great.) While I'm at it I want a Rohloff IGH so that I can use this beast for a cross country tour as easily as riding it to work. I want a big flat wood-slatted CETMA style rack up front with twin lamps running off a generator hub. I want a Jones H-bars... ok, maybe I can settle for Titec... or maybe a dirt drop bar instead? I haven't nailed that part down yet. Big, wide stompin' platform pedals. A Brooks saddle with springs would fit the look perfectly, but this is a bike that would get left out in the rain at times... maybe Selle Anatomica?

I bounced this idea off of Devo and his response is of course the sane one: just get a Dummy, put DH rims and 2" wheels on it, ride the hell out of it and be happy when you can replace the entire drive train for less than 1/10 the cost of the Rohloff. I love Surly, I've been a fan of the Dummy since it was first announced, and he's right, but... I've got a motorcycle that I'm not riding much that could be sold to pay for an awful lot of bicycle. I've got an idea of what I really want stuck in my head. Why not go for it?

What I have in mind takes aesthetic and technical cues from the original Big Dummy, the Big Dumb Pug, the Chupacabra, the Retrotec/Inglis snowbikes, the Fatback and even a little bit of Devo's own Hunter. I love the blacked out look of the Big Dumb Pug (pre bamboo fenders,) but I'm tempted to do something more like the recent John Deer/Caterpillar themed bike ideas and really turn it into a parade float.

I know there are a number of you who have dropped a line to Banjo Cycles or expressed interest in the Chupacabra if they wind up producing a run of them so I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. What would your ideal fat/long bike look like?


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## Stupendous Man (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you definitely have something there! :thumbsup:


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## willevans (Jun 15, 2006)

My ideal fat 'n long bike would still be fairly narrow so I can get it out between the two cars in my garage, which means a front-loader design with a wide platform (while useful) wouldn't work for me. If you could do something with fat and light aluminum tubes (something the length and look of a Cannondale Tandem) with a long and low rear platform I'd go for it. I would also like it to have a XC mountain bike position as a bolt-upright position doesn't feel good to me.


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## space49 (Jan 24, 2010)

Black Sheep has already made your ride. Look under dream products on his website.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

not as fat as your talking but i have 2.5 hookworms on my rig and it is a killer ride. i could only imagine how a xtrapugcycle would ride.


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## broken_cynic (Jul 9, 2008)

space49: I had seen the Black Sheep Bikes S-Cargo before and rediscovered it just after I posted this thread... thought about editing to include it in there. The S-Cargo is an awesome bike, definitely built to a high standard and great looking in its own way, but I actually prefer the look of the Big Dumb Pug.

veloreality: Looks like a great ride! On a bike that will be ridden a good deal and primarily on the street, Hookworms or Big Apples might be a better real world solution than an Endo/Larry combo or enormous cruiser tires.


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## vik (Oct 13, 2005)

What you are talking about is a fully custom frame...if you want it go for it...as long as you have the $$$ to spend. The Rohloff will pay for itself and you can hand it down to your kids! Having the ability to shift while stopped is very handy on a fully loaded cargo rig.

I find Endomorphs roll about as well as a MTB knobby on pavement - which is not bad, but not great...I wouldn't want to ride 100kms on asphalt with them. Offroad or on a bad dirt road the suspension effect of the big rubber makes them well worth the effort.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Food for thought...here is my Yuba Mundo V3 with 2.7" WTB Timberwolves. The clearance is ample, but the chain buzzes the knobbies in the lowest cassette cog. 2.4 Mutano's fit with zero issues. An Endo can physically fit in the rear triangle, but there is next to no clearance.

You could theoretically throw a Maverick SC32 on the front end and easily run an Endo up there. The geometry would be tweaked a bit, but less than normal due to the longer wheelbase.










And...here is my Mundo in front of my brand new 4.4kW solar system. Just because I want an excuse to post it.










Oh yeah, cargo usage for the Mundo so far has been limited to carrying 2 munchkins back and forth to the bus stop. Trail behavior has been predictable and reasonable.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, looks pretty righteous with those FAT knobbies! :thumbsup:


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## ward (Aug 20, 2009)

couple of us over on the fatbikes forum talking about modifying Xtra cycles HD (29er friendly) unit - if indeed it goes into production - to except "fat" gear. Done right, just about any hard tail 29er frame would do (have to change to a fat fork as well) and could be changed back to a reg. 29er if need be. May sound drastic to cut up a brand new Xtracycle, but could be cheaper and simpler than a complete custom build.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

broken_cynic said:


> *cross-posted to cargo and fat bike forums in order to get different perspectives. if that's not kosher, then please to be deleting the thread under cargo bikes. thanks!*
> 
> I read Devo's musings about crossing the best attributes of two of his favorite bikes, the Pugsley and the Big Dummy some time ago, but the idea really clicked for me when I ran across pictures of the Big Dumb Pug on flickr. I want one. I want a sexy beast of a longtail bike on fat tires. A bicycle somewhere in between monster truck and parade float, that has a bit of '57 Chevy (or perhaps it's '60 Cadillac?) running through its veins. One with frame-integrated rear racks like the Yubo Mundo/Kona Ute rather than a bolted on XtraCycle kit (though compatability with the XtraCycle accessories would be great.) While I'm at it I want a Rohloff IGH so that I can use this beast for a cross country tour as easily as riding it to work. I want a big flat wood-slatted CETMA style rack up front with twin lamps running off a generator hub. I want a Jones H-bars... ok, maybe I can settle for Titec... or maybe a dirt drop bar instead? I haven't nailed that part down yet. Big, wide stompin' platform pedals. A Brooks saddle with springs would fit the look perfectly, but this is a bike that would get left out in the rain at times... maybe Selle Anatomica?
> 
> ...


you ought to shoot Rick Hunter a line and see what his response is.
I know he's built a Long Tail cargo bike

one of the things that kills me about the Kona Ute is that it can do wheelies!

at the moment, after my last little jaunt down the coast
and with the last leg done in as light of a packing solution as I could muster
on a dummy (whats the point right?)
with frame bags...
its really amazing how much storage space The Big Dummy offers up...

at the moment, I'm thinking that if I had the cash to drop on a custom Cargo/Long Tail/long distance multi terrain tourer/in cafe board tracker style...
I would be calling Rick Hunter

stick to a drive train plan
stick to an aesthetic, i.e. Stripped down big dummy/dragster look...
minus all the extra junk that goes on around the rear wheel and after the axle
shoot for a chainstay length that would let you wheelie up a couple of stairs...

in so many ways...
as much as I hate to say it... that XtraCycle stuff isn't that great.
that is compared to the BikePacking method
then of course if you are really going to be hauling oversized loads, perhaps an At Work Trailer really would be easier to load and unload.
don't get me wrong... the XtraCycle stuff is great for commuting, groceries, etc...
but if you are really going to be out there doing some off road touring, the frame bag solution is much better.

the Dummy simply has so much freaking space that you fall into this trap of carrying way to much.
as it is, if it were fitted with all frame bags, it would be a huge amount of.... FOOD of course.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

ward said:


> couple of us over on the fatbikes forum talking about modifying Xtra cycles HD (29er friendly) unit - if indeed it goes into production - to except "fat" gear. Done right, just about any hard tail 29er frame would do (have to change to a fat fork as well) and could be changed back to a reg. 29er if need be. May sound drastic to cut up a brand new Xtracycle, but could be cheaper and simpler than a complete custom build.


I think this is a great idea!
perfect platform to prototype


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## NormanF (Mar 15, 2007)

Surly might do it... someone should ask them if they would offer a "fat" Big Dummy to the market.

If there was the demand there, they'd build it!


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

NormanF said:


> Surly might do it... someone should ask them if they would offer a "fat" Big Dummy to the market.
> 
> If there was the demand there, they'd build it!


When Surly was doing their pre-production runs of Dummies, I had asked them to make it doable with Endos... if i recall the response(s) were something along the lines of "its not that big and not that fat"

in my personal opinion the Big Dummy should have been developed to accommodate Endos right from the beginning.

I've been on my BD for almost 3 years now, and a common response is, "Nice XtraCycle".

if it were shod in Endos, there'd be no mistaking that it was a Surly Product, especially in light of what they have done for the entire Fat Bike movement. which is pretty much the same thing that they've done for Cargo Bikes, with the BD.

it seemed to me to be a no brainer
Big Fat Dummy


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

SelfPropelledDevo said:


> When Surly was doing their pre-production runs of Dummies, I had asked them to make it doable with Endos... if i recall the response(s) were something along the lines of "its not that big and not that fat"
> 
> in my personal opinion the Big Dummy should have been developed to accommodate Endos right from the beginning.
> 
> ...


Clearly stated. And to the point. Back when I was first considering buying my Big Dummy, I was actually sort of shocked to find out that I could not get one with the 3.7 - 3.8" Endos or Larrys. Those teeny tiny Schwalbe Big Apple tires really leave a lot to be desired. Now, however, shod with the 26"x2.5" Hookworms, the bike has transformed into an amazing off-road-capable cargo machine-I cannot imagine how much better it is going to be once my 26"x2.5" Large Marge rims are done being built&#8230;


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## NormanF (Mar 15, 2007)

I think you can run 24" LM rims with the Big Dummy and 3.45" Hoggy G's now that I think about it.

No problem putting fat tires on it. If it can be done on the 1X1, it can surely be done on the Big Dummy!


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## willevans (Jun 15, 2006)

SelfPropelledDevo said:


> I've been on my BD for almost 3 years now, and a common response is, "Nice XtraCycle".
> 
> Big Fat Dummy


Those are the same people who'd look at your Porsche and say "Nice Beetle."


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

*It's been done*

I've posted links to this bike before, they're elsewhere on MTBR. It was at the NAHBS this past february too. Sweet implementation this frame, nice curves, well done.

Link to the flikr page here, some construction pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/banjocycles/page6/

Search around for Banjo Cycles for more pictures, should be plenty out there. Haven't seen this bike in person yet, but everytime I'm out I keep my eyes peeled.

Plum


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

no doubt, that Banjo Cycles was on the forefront of this movement.

in the likes of Surly's 1x1 = 11 Anniversary bike, shod in 24x3.45" tyres
it was as if a slight ricochet in aim has missed an obvious potential market in cargo bikes.

on another note: re: big tyres and cargo

while I've used its Dumbness to a wide degree
I had spent a fair amount of time wearing out tires, brake pads, and rims...
which immediately got me to thinking and searching out the likes of metallic pads, or 3xLife Ceramic pads, and of course DH rims and bigger tires
all in an effort to dissipate the load into the wheels.

after 2 sets of wheels and I have no idea how many different sets of tires
I've pretty much settled on WTB LaserDisc DH rims and Serfas Drifters in 2.0"

my next try is going to be WTB Mutano Raptors in 2.4" setup tubeless.

I like the idea of using LM's but for me, my reality is that DH rims offer the such a wide variety of tires, that I'm not too sure if I'd be hooked on the worms.


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## ericpulvermacher (Nov 1, 2008)

I have a hookworm on the back of my Xtracycle but like the idea of going 24x3 in the back, I would just have to weld on some new brake mounts. 

It sounds like the Hoggy G's really aren't good tires considering how many blew up. I would probably go with something like a Felt Berm master instead as I do like to get off the beeten path.


Might just turn into the perfect bike for getting a deer out of the bush.


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## Lone Desert Walker (Sep 15, 2011)

*The yuba can be a fat bike!*

The v4 frame has 4 inches of clearance in the rear triangle, so all it needs is a pug fork. When I get the funds I'm going to do it. There is something on this in the fat bikes forum: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fat-tire-cargo-bike-552339.html


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## inoy (Mar 1, 2012)

i'm assuming this uses a square taper BB. is it offset or are there extra wide BB available out there? sizes please?


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

inoy said:


> i'm assuming this uses a square taper BB. is it offset or are there extra wide BB available out there? sizes please?


I just measured the other day, and the bottom bracket shell on the Surly Big Dummy is of the 68mm variety, so plenty of options to choose from.


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## tenbears10 (Jun 15, 2012)

A fat dummy would be great


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## Anthony King (Aug 29, 2010)

I just built a Big Dummy and am going to build a second wheelset for the dirt. The bike hauls a three and five year old so I'm looking for as much volume as possible and more grip. I've ordered the parts to build 24" wheels with Duro Razorback 3.0 tires. Anyone else tried this?


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## Ginz (Jan 28, 2004)

Bilenky did one or two of these fat cargo bikes. This link is the only photo I could find quickly, though fear not, the owner recovered their stolen rig.

It is definitely a beast, not the sexy, curvy example the OP was looking for. But, it does seem to be one's best hope when facing the apocalypse!

Google Image Result for http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hevAfehuYDE/T1jflA3Y5FI/AAAAAAAAAfc/CGbnRc-rWH0/s1600/stolen%2Bbike..jpg

Ginz


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## ashx2 (Aug 18, 2012)

Baker.......what's the purpose of the handlebars attached to the seat post?


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## HelgenX (Aug 23, 2012)

That mu do setup is looking mighty fine.


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## motorman (May 30, 2011)

I want this :eekster:





































:thumbsup:


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## Yoreskillz (Feb 10, 2011)

That makes 2 of us Motorman! Love that Black Sheep Beauty.


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Heres mine, Banjo Cycles Built it. Took awhile though but worth the wait!


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## motorman (May 30, 2011)

That's lovely :thumbsup:

How does the rear end on that work? 135 offset, or 170mm hubs?

I just ordered most of the parts for my own fat cargo project today Looking forward to the challanges that lay ahead


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

I used a 150mm hub and it works good, the chain does rub when in the 36t cog (lowest) This wouldn't be a problem if I ran one chainring but I like the 2 chainrings. 



I also chose 150mm rear hub because there are great choices out there in that size. I chose The Stealth Hub from True Precision. 2nd set and I love them!


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## motorman (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I'm about to start my own fat cargo project & looking for solutions that others have used. Are you running a 100mm BB?


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Yes, 100mm BB and a 150mm rear hub. The frame was made with the Surly Instagator drop outs too.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

WOW!!! (as I exclaimed in the other fat-centric cargobike thread) Super-motherfooking-awesome!!! :band:


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## véloneige (Nov 26, 2012)

*Fat Cargo Bike, I actually need one...*

Hi All: I have been interested to see the Banjo Cycles Fat Bike and some of the Near Fat Bike versions of Yuba Mundo with Pugsley front forks etc.

My interest is serious, as I live in a small, isolated, town with no snow-clearing, 60N, 134W in Canada's Yukon. We have 20 hour long nights now, and 4 hour long nights in July, 40 below in the winter, and +30C in the summer. And I get around summer and winter for all tasks, on a bike. Towns or heated shelters are 200kms apart, frostbite or death by hypothermia is a really big issue, so reliability is a must. Spare parts can take up to 2 weeks to arrive here by mail.

Climate change means we can't count on riding on packed down snow, as above -14C, salt begins to work, and the snow on the streets turns into brown sugar slush. This is for as long as a month a year now, sorry to say.

So, as the Sachs 7spd internal hub on my 1993 Bridgestone commuter bike is down to 5 gears instead of 7, I really am interested in replacing it. Studded Nokian Mtn+Grnd 26x1.95, fine for packed snow, useless in brown sugar slush or 2cm+ of fresh snow.

I would like horizontal drop-outs so as to fit a Rohloff IGHub. And fat tire capability, preferably a fat wheel set, and a skinny kevlar-belted summer wheelset, maybe on a frame that would be more amenable to hauling 56L MEC world tour panniers, and a 90L cooler full of fruit+veg, which I do every Tuesday...

Here are my options:

-Yuba Mundo, one has sat in town unsold for over a year, but it is here! (shipping to here is $$!) It feels too big though, and too heavy to push up the clay cliffs...

-try to find a used or new Surly Pugsley, much harder than it might seem...no one is interested in boxing and shippping a used one....then stick Nice Racks front and rear on it, fenders, Rohloff

-Yuba Boda Boda, like the size and weight of it, but it can't fit a disk brake in the back, no tab, not sure we have alu welding capability here

Evidently both Yuba bikes I would get a Surly disc Fork for the front, with as wide a tire as I can get...

I guess my question is how useful in deep 15cm (6in) brown-sugar type slush would a cargo bike be with at least a 3.7in wide front tire, maybe only 2.5 (Boda) or a 3.0 (Mundo) on the rear?

Ideally, I would like to go for Husker Du studs, as we do have lots of black ice when it drops below the magic -14C, which was for the last 3 weeks at -30C, though we are at 0C now in a chinook...

Whilst I do snowshoe-pack the bike shortcut trails through town, I do find that fat bike people, mostly on Pugsley's, zip around me whilst I am snowshoeing...so the fat bike thing would mean less use of a pulk-sled to haul groceries with after snowstorms...

What do you all think?


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## Lone Desert Walker (Sep 15, 2011)

*Cool!!!!!*



MooseCaboose said:


> Heres mine, Banjo Cycles Built it. Took awhile though but worth the wait!
> 
> View attachment 720582


Could we please have a lot more pictures?:thumbsup:


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Here are some more pic's


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## Jozo (Oct 7, 2012)

MooseCaboose said:


> Here are some more pic's


Great bike :thumbsup:


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you


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## Dominic49 (Jul 7, 2005)

MooseCaboose said:


> Thank you


You aren't from the Woodstock, GA area by chance are you?


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Yes, I am


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## alanm (Sep 2, 2009)

MooseCaboose,

Mate, whats that rear disc you're running? It looks like a ventilated disc.

Cheers,
Al


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## Dominic49 (Jul 7, 2005)

alanm said:


> MooseCaboose,
> 
> Mate, whats that rear disc you're running? It looks like a ventilated disc.
> 
> ...


they look to be Hope's

Hope 2 Piece Vented Tech V2 Disc Brake Rotor 100034670 at CambriaBike.com


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## alanm (Sep 2, 2009)

Dominic49 said:


> they look to be Hope's
> 
> Hope 2 Piece Vented Tech V2 Disc Brake Rotor 100034670 at CambriaBike.com


Thanks for that mate. I rekon you're right. I didn't know vented disc's were made for bikes. 

Al


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## véloneige (Nov 26, 2012)

The Banjo bike is delicious! 

Sadly, I need something shorter and lighter...

How about a Rohloff in a 14’’ Fat Back Alu Rocker Drop out Frame?

Has anybody done this before? 

Looking to build a fat snow cargo bike, racks front and rear, in NW Canada, Surly Pugsley’s aren’t available until at least June….Yuba Mundo is just too long and too heavy for me. 

But the Banjo bike is appealing!


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Alan,

They are the Hope 203mm Vented rotors, they are great went I am loaded down with cargo or pulling my trailer like below.


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## Jozo (Oct 7, 2012)

MooseCaboose said:


> pulling my trailer like below.


A really long trailer  What is its load capacity and manufacturer?


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

The Manufacture is Bikes at Work. I believe its rated for 400 but can go 600 if you want to pull it. How you see it is in 96" mode, Its a modular design and goes 32,64,96 and the wheel is offset so it can be placed to balance the load. Its a brilliant design!


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

WOW! That thing really has nothing on Surly’s trailer offerings!!! :eekster: Impressive landyacht setup you have there. :thumbsup:


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## MooseCaboose (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you. It is a great trailer but the Surly trailer is very well built and thought out. I use the trailer in the 64" mode the most. I like Surly's mount to the cycle better too. In general trailers are a great tool to have, especially when you don't own a vehicle.

GO BIKE POWER!!!


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## Jozo (Oct 7, 2012)

Riding with my Mundo and this 96" long trailer in the streets of my Central European city with narrow and congested streets and lack of cycling infrastructure would be interesting


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## véloneige (Nov 26, 2012)

Hi all: I couldn't get a fat cargo bike like the excellent banjo bike soon enough to replace my dying 7spd hub winter cargo bike, but I did come up with a used Rohloff hub (?) and a used Small Pugsley, so I am going that route. If anybody has suggestions for cargo like racks front and rear for Pugs, I could use them!


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## Yoreskillz (Feb 10, 2011)

véloneige said:


> Hi all: I couldn't get a fat cargo bike like the excellent banjo bike soon enough to replace my dying 7spd hub winter cargo bike, but I did come up with a used Rohloff hub (?) and a used Small Pugsley, so I am going that route. If anybody has suggestions for cargo like racks front and rear for Pugs, I could use them!


Vélo, you can use two rear, Surly Nice Racks or Old Man Mountain also makes racks that are compatible with your Pugsley. I have the Nice Racks on my Moonlander, bit heavy for some but stout.

Old Man Mountain: Pannier Racks For Any Bike

Surly Rack | Parts | Surly Bikes

VikB has a nice write up on racks for the Pugsley and there are quite a few photos/threads floating around for more instruction:

Surly Pugsley Rack Options « The Lazy Rando Blog&#8230;


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## véloneige (Nov 26, 2012)

Thanks All! I am making my build up notes for my mech now, will see if I can use a rear alloy rack like the Nice Rack, I carry groceries, so this is not decorative!


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## Design Logic Bikes (Feb 13, 2012)

*2014 Design Logic Bikes small custom "Da Phat" fresh out of the lab!*

2014 Design Logic Bikes small custom "Da Phat" fresh out of the lab!


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## véloneige (Nov 26, 2012)

Wow! What is the rear wheel-fender clearance? Will it fit a Rohloff?


I was able in March 2013 to find a small used Pugsley and a used Rohloff, shoe-horned racks on it (not happy with racks!) and septic weeping pipe fenders, but for others, this could be an 'out of the box' winter cargo bike solution!


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## dstgean (Aug 28, 2013)

motorman said:


> I want this :eekster:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a jones creation!


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## BigBike7 (Sep 11, 2013)

I use my Worksman Cycles StretchMover industrial trike as my cargo bike...it has a 600 pound load capacity -three speeds---coasterbrakes/drum brakes and handles everything I can throw at it (it's so stout that cars move over as to not hit me when I'm tooling down the roads !)...


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