# Ellsworth Joker



## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

PRODUCT REVIEW

2004 Ellsworth Joker Frame
2004 Marzocchi FR
WTB Laserdisc DH Wheelset
Magura FR Brakes
Truvativ Holzfeller Cranks and Bottom Bracket
WTB Weirwolf 2.5 Race Tires
SRAM X9 Drivetrain
Thompson Stem and Post
Easton Cully Pedals
MRP System 2 Chainguide
King Headset
Easton Monkey Bar










The 2004 Ellsworth Joker is certainly no joke. For us it endured 6 months of the toughest abuse - 500 miles of XC and all-mountain riding coupled with 150K feet of rough downhill trails. The Joker faced countless abusive runs and riders, and everyone continued to be surprised at the versatility and "fun factor" found with the Ellsworth Joker.










Versatility is one of the greatest attributes of the Joker. At first glance the Joker appears to be a free ride or light DH rig, but this is not the case. Our bike weighed in at just below 37lbs (and lighter weights are possible with different component and group combinations). The Joker's ATLAS single pivot design was remarkably efficient under hard pedaling or sprinting. Combined with its light weight the Joker proved worthy, competent, and enjoyable on moderate cross-country excursions. Because of this unique combination of suspension and light weight, the Joker was also nimble on jumps and rutty root-laden trails. We found ourselves having just as much fun in the air as we did glued to the trail on this bike.










It is also in testament to the Joker's versatility that when trails get steep and rough, it remains a comfortable and stable ride. This is by no means a full downhill bike, but in many cases can be almost as capable as one. Seven inches of rear shock travel, a slack head angle when paired with our Marzocchi FR 6 inch fork, a moderate wheelbase that is short enough for quick corners but long enough for high-speed stability, and outstanding durability make it a reassuring and stable ride. It is great to ride a bike that has the versatility to tackle the climbs as well as the downhills, all without leaving the rider broken or stranded on the side of a trail.










We subjected the Joker to abuse that such a versatile bike would not be expected to encounter. Countless five, ten, and fifteen foot drops (many times to flat on concrete) were soaked up with reassuring ease. The Joker escaped from our abuse with absolutely no problems. Breakage was out of the question. This is by all definitions a durable ride.










The finish on this bike is top-notch. After being jammed against other bikes in the back of vans and trucks, ROUGH trails, the aforementioned drops, and enough falls to rival Niagara, the Joker's anodized finish still looked incredible. Bright, shiny, and not even a scratch. The pictures in this article, believe it or not, are after 6 months of abuse! A little Simple Green and elbow grease made this bike look and work as well as it did half a year ago.










We found that with the Joker there were no real weaknesses, unless you consider a few extra pounds compared to other cross-country capable bikes. We admittedly could have used a lighter weight group, but we loved the Joker right where it was. It is a trail bike that can be efficiently pedaled, and it's a durable bike that can handle moderate downhill and drops&#8230;. so we felt the marginal weight difference was an overlookable point. We loved the Joker as a true all-around bike. It is a great combination of versatility and durability, a bike that can go up and down the roughest trails while delivering confidence, ability, and, of course, fun.

Thanks for reading.

Forrest
[email protected]

Written, Tested and Reviewed by:

Devlin Koehler
Ryan Finney
Chris Carscadden
Jeremy Goodson


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## Chikity China (May 3, 2004)

ive heard some cases where the swinger arm snapped while riding off a curb.....


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## damion (Jun 27, 2003)

*Was this test "sponsored" by EW?*

Kidding. Great write up. Is this going to be a common thing?


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## Panacea (Mar 10, 2004)

[QUOTE= Was this test "sponsored" by EW? 

Not at all in fact you can lob into any LBS and ask if you can review a Joker for six months. You'll find the staff more than happy to accomodate you


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## OneBlueJoker (Apr 15, 2004)

Thats why i love my joker so much! everyone ranks on it and its not a bad bike at all!! Its true they are easy to pedal uphill and are super fun on downhill and jumps! I would recomend one to anyone that is consitering one!


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## DJrider04 (May 4, 2004)

The ONLY bike I would consider by EW would be the Dare. That being the only bike ive never heard anything happening to. Is it just me, or does everybody that owns one seem very bias, and sometimes......just plain silly?


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

why is this a sticky?


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## konabiker (Jan 19, 2004)

Jm. said:


> why is this a sticky?


i was thinking the same thing.....

cool bike, good review.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

Jm. said:


> why is this a sticky?


because UPS just filled my garage with Ellsworths


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

can i review my left Gaerne spd shoe and get it made into a sticky?


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## Ebo (Dec 30, 2003)

Jm. said:


> why is this a sticky?


Smells like fish.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

Jm. said:


> can i review my left Gaerne spd shoe and get it made into a sticky?


depends if they also end up in my garage...


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

Anyone knows how it compares to riding an ID?


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

DJrider04 said:


> The ONLY bike I would consider by EW would be the Dare. That being the only bike ive never heard anything happening to. Is it just me, or does everybody that owns one seem very bias, and sometimes......just plain silly?


 Such is the case with most botique bike brands. They all become almost fanatical about their bikes.

Incidentally, I've seen a bunch of pictures of various broken Dares.. I've actually not seen a bike in the Ellsworth lineup that I haven't seen at least 5 broken ones. I would never own one.

I am particularly amused by the bolt-on gusset on the downtube of the Dare


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## Nick. (Dec 19, 2003)

Slayer77 said:


> Breakage was out of the question.












I'm glad your crew had better luck than _many_ others have with their Jokers.

Now, why is this a sticky again?


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## rprice (Jul 4, 2004)

Nick
I'm glad your crew had better luck than [i said:


> many[/i] others have with their Jokers.
> 
> Now, why is this a sticky again?


Actually that picture of the broken yoke isn't an 04. I've seen a lot of pre-04 broken yokes, but haven't seen any broken 04s. That's either because the new single piece Al yoke is holding up better or because the 04 joker isn't selling. Judging by the advertisment above and the low street price of the 04 frames I'd say the later.


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

Jm. said:


> why is this a sticky?


dude, this is CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY!!  This isn't your normal, run-of-the-mill single pivot bike, this is ATLAS suspension design. Totally revamped from the older ATLAS 6" technology, this has 7" inches!!!!! Can you believe it, a 7" single pivot bike??!!?! I never thought I would see the day, that someone, somewhere, would be able to design, from the ground up, a machine so simple and yet so efficient. 7" inches... (shaking head)

I'm in awe and totally humbled...


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

Nick. said:


> I'm glad your crew had better luck than _many_ others have with their Jokers.
> 
> Now, why is this a sticky again?


i first year engineering student could tell you why that broke. Style is nice....but not when you create a butt-load of stress risers...


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## ronny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Used to have one.*



damion said:


> Kidding. Great write up. Is this going to be a common thing?


I rode the 04 Joker SL all summer and I have nothing bad to say about the bike. I weigh 210-215lbs(during x-mas) and I dropped it many times in the 4-6ft range without any problems. The only thing I destroyed was my rear rim. It pedals and climbs surprisingly well for a 7" single pivot bike.

The swingarm problem is supposed to be fixed on the 04s. My only complaint is the outrageous pricing that Ellsworth commands for it. The Joker has slack geometry and while it is intended for freeriding it can be ridden on xc trails no problem.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

Perhaps this "sticky" could be moved to the ellsworth forum, where ellsworth owners hungry for any good talk about their bikes would love it. To leave it here in this forum is asking for trouble.

Unless that's what you want.

And since this reads like so much propaganda, if anyone wanted to freshen up on the ellsworth warranty issues, here's a link; http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=5520&highlight=ellsworth+warrenty


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

As a staff writer, Forrest's posts get featured.

Like Photo-John's report on the Marzocchi '05 product launch, or my trip to Whislter for CrankWorks.

Speaking of which, I've got an overdue write-up for the new Cannondale Prophet that I've got to write sometime soon.

-g



Jm. said:


> why is this a sticky?


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## SSINGA (Dec 23, 2003)

rprice said:


> Actually that picture of the broken yoke isn't an 04. I've seen a lot of pre-04 broken yokes, but haven't seen any broken 04s. That's either because the new single piece Al yoke is holding up better or because the 04 joker isn't selling. Judging by the advertisment above and the low street price of the 04 frames I'd say the later.


I beleive the swingarm design changed in 2003 to the newer one piece unit. It provided better lateral stiffness than the older design also.


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## Evil Con-fecal (Jan 31, 2004)

*Hmm, very familliar*



Nick. said:


> I'm glad your crew had better luck than _many_ others have with their Jokers.
> 
> Now, why is this a sticky again?


I've seen this before, but where? Oh, I know! It was on my Joker, broke just like that. The new redesigned swingarm has been much better, so far. Warranty wasn't even a problem even though I was the second owner. Other than the first break EW hasn't been bad to me.
We will see how the next bike company will be, starting tomorrow! Muwhhaaahhhaaaa!


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## gonzostrike (Jan 3, 2004)

rprice said:


> Actually that picture of the broken yoke isn't an 04. I've seen a lot of pre-04 broken yokes, but haven't seen any broken 04s. That's either because the new single piece Al yoke is holding up better or because the 04 joker isn't selling. Judging by the advertisment above and the low street price of the 04 frames I'd say the later.


"single piece AL yoke"?

WTF are you talking about? it's a welded unit with seams everywhere.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

gonzostrike said:


> "single piece AL yoke"?
> 
> WTF are you talking about? it's a welded unit with seams everywhere.


It is currently a single piece all welded together. Once it cracks it is then multiple pieces.....


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## rprice (Jul 4, 2004)

*Not exactly...*



gonzostrike said:


> "single piece AL yoke"?
> 
> WTF are you talking about? it's a welded unit with seams everywhere.


The newer yoke design is machined from a single piece of Al. There is no longer the weld in the middle of the yoke between the pivot and the swing arm/chain stay. The only welds are those at the swing arms and these are beefier than the older design because the yoke has more material at the weld and the boxed swing arm tubing is larger.

I've seen broken older yokes like in the picture, but the new yoke is dramatically different. I'm not claiming the 04 Joker won't have other problems, but there have been design changes to address the boat load of problems with the older Joker design.


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## Nick. (Dec 19, 2003)

*one more thing ...*

no surprise here, but I think the photography is excellent in this review!


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## prerogative (Jan 15, 2004)

rprice said:


> The newer yoke design is machined from a single piece of Al. There is no longer the weld in the middle of the yoke between the pivot and the swing arm/chain stay. The only welds are those at the swing arms and these are beefier than the older design because the yoke has more material at the weld and the boxed swing arm tubing is larger.
> 
> I've seen broken older yokes like in the picture, but the new yoke is dramatically different. I'm not claiming the 04 Joker won't have other problems, but there have been design changes to address the boat load of problems with the older Joker design.


Above sums up the design difference prior 04', but also keep in mind, pre-04 had lifetime warranty (same day replacement for riding bud earlier this year, thanks to LBS). I have not heard or read of an 04' failure - suppose this is good, since they no longer have lifetime warranty (forget new period). I'm a Stinky guy, but would think twice about buying the Joker after seeing what it's gone through.

Oh yeah, agree - nice pics in the review !


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

prerogative said:


> Above sums up the design difference prior 04', but also keep in mind, pre-04 had lifetime warranty (same day replacement for riding bud earlier this year, thanks to LBS). I have not heard or read of an 04' failure - suppose this is good, since they no longer have lifetime warranty (forget new period). I'm a Stinky guy, but would think twice about buying the Joker after seeing what it's gone through.
> 
> Oh yeah, agree - nice pics in the review !


apparently, they never did have a lifetime warranty, it was a LIMITED liftetime warranty. If the part was no longer being produced, or a replacement was incompatible, you'd be charged for whatever needed to be changed. Apparently, there is very little retrofitting.....neat huh?


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> apparently, they never did have a lifetime warranty, it was a LIMITED liftetime warranty. If the part was no longer being produced, or a replacement was incompatible, you'd be charged for whatever needed to be changed. Apparently, there is very little retrofitting.....neat huh?


Ellsworth claims that a minor redesign means that your bike no longer exists, so if they change something small, even though you have a "truth", it's not a "truth" and you'll be charged for the parts.

Ellsworth has no rider weight limits for their lightest XC frames(irresponsable).

Ellsworth is the only company that includes tire compression in "travel".

Tip of the iceberg.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

another interesting tidbit brought up by someone saying the Haros were using Ells. patented single pivot suspension. Their site calls it the ATLAS, claims its patented, yet theres no record i could find of such a patent (the ICT showed up tho). Theres no details on the site exactly what this doubtful patent would consist of. Simply rediculous.


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## knollybikes.com (Jan 8, 2004)

*There is a patent for the Atlas suspension system...*



zedro said:


> another interesting tidbit brought up by someone saying the Haros were using Ells. patented single pivot suspension. Their site calls it the ATLAS, claims its patented, yet theres no record i could find of such a patent (the ICT showed up tho). Theres no details on the site exactly what this doubtful patent would consist of. Simply rediculous.


However, it has nothing to do with the suspension's in terms of wheel path or brake interaction - it has more to do with a manufacturing technique and producing a lightweight and stiff frame member if I remember correctly.

Check out www.uspto.gov and do a search for patent # 6,361,059.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

knollybikes.com said:


> However, it has nothing to do with the suspension's in terms of wheel path or brake interaction - it has more to do with a manufacturing technique and producing a lightweight and stiff frame member if I remember correctly.
> 
> Check out www.uspto.gov and do a search for patent # 6,361,059.


what a bunch of BS! i cannot believe this stuff passes through the system...he consistantly calls the swingarm a 'device' and a one piece yoke an 'invention'....what a load of crack. I think i got sick just reading it...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

looks like a heavier SC Bullit...how does it compare???...would you add a floating break set up???


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

zedro said:


> what a bunch of BS! i cannot believe this stuff passes through the system...he consistantly calls the swingarm a 'device' and a one piece yoke an 'invention'....what a load of crack. I think i got sick just reading it...


 Did you actually expect something else out of the great T.E.?

The guy is a douchebag.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

binary visions said:


> Did you actually expect something else out of the great T.E.?
> 
> The guy is a douchebag.


no, but i'm still mad as hell!

give me some puppies to kick!!!


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## ezweave (Jul 9, 2004)

zedro said:


> no, but i'm still mad as hell!
> 
> give me some puppies to kick!!!


His designs haven't changed much in years... what a douche. I'm talking John Edwards level, BDIU... almost.


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

ezweave said:


> His designs haven't changed much in years... what a douche. I'm talking John Edwards level, BDIU... almost.


2 minute penalty for gratuitous South Park reference.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

SP references are cool


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Joker Review*

Hey guys... Thanks for the props on the photos... I'm really tried hard to make the photos look cool... It's easy to make the photos look killer when you have some of the best riders as your subjects... I'm down at Mammoth this weekend racing and taking photos, hopefully I'll get some good ones...

As for the reviews, we may be doing more...

Thanks,Forrest



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> SP references are cool


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

zedro said:


> depends if they also end up in my garage...


what if i end up in ur garage...

(could you then get Ashlee Simpson to review me)

and nice write up and pictures man...shame it had to be on a joker...


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Reviews...*

Man.... the Joker really has a bad wrap huh... All I can say is that we didn't have any bad luck with the Joker at all.... No BS man... It was a great riding all mountain bike.. You can tell by a couple photos that we my buddies really put it through the ringer...

Please let me know if you have specific products that you would like to have tested... Maybe you could do a write up for us? Where do you live? That may work man... Let me know.

thanks,Forrest



BJ- said:


> what if i end up in ur garage...
> 
> (could you then get Ashlee Simpson to review me)
> 
> and nice write up and pictures man...shame it had to be on a joker...


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

Slayer77 said:


> Man.... the Joker really has a bad wrap huh...


its Ellsworth that has the bad wrap....one of these things were everythings fine until something goes wrong....thats why its the only manufacturers board that hosts major fiascos...only because Karpiel doesnt have their own board....


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

Forest said:


> Reviews...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


ill start with....

i would like nothing more than do to a write up for u guys (if this is directed at me) but something i would like to see reviwed and something i thnk more attention needs to payed towards are FR bikes and FR specific componentry or parts...in australia (where i live) the FR community is being badly ignored and neglected...ive only seen 2 reviwes on FR bike in the last 2-3 years...and they were on a Kona Stinky and a Specialized Big Hit expert...they were both very brief and disapointing for they lacked in content...which kinda makes me think...why is this...throughout the biking community the majority of riders are FRers who do it for the simple enjoyment of pushing there own limits and for fun...we not only out number the racers but also put our bikes through more abuse than other genres of the sport...and this being the case then why if our numbers are up and we are constanly braking things...in other words spending lots of money....more than the DHers then why are we being ignored...makes me think at leats if that at all makes sence...

anyways...i live in australia...and would like to see some FR stuff reviewed...by this i mean proper "hardcore" FR bikes...like a Rocky Mountain RMX (current bike im looking at...and craving info on) i know alot of ppl in my position and are in that border lined position between full on FR and intermediate stuff who dont know what bikes to get and the reaosns behind them...i know 2 guys who both went out and bought the same bikes because of lack of knowledge of availability and of products...which is a shame because if they knew there were better bikes out there they could have both ended up with better bikes...anyways...

i really would enjoy doing a write up on summin...im just not sure how it would work or how i would do it...anyways...i just think it would be good to see a review on a bike or something substancial every moonth or so...especially the newer things that ppl have alot of spectisicm towards and a alot of questions about...anyways its up to you guys...hope u can think about what ive said...

cheers...


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

BJ- said:


> ive only seen 2 reviwes on FR bike in the last 2-3 years...and they were on a Kona Stinky and a Specialized Big Hit expert.


This is still Mountain Bike Review website. There's more than 2 reviews here.


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## gonzostrike (Jan 3, 2004)

zedro said:


> what a bunch of BS! i cannot believe this stuff passes through the system...he consistantly calls the swingarm a 'device' and a one piece yoke an 'invention'....what a load of crack. I think i got sick just reading it...


unfortunately, zedro, the terms "device" and "invention" are "terms of art" and regularly used in patent applications and grants. they aren't necessarily literally accurate.

it's sorta like when cops say they "responded to the scene" instead of saying they "went there". just a stupid lingo/jargon thing that is almost nonsensical.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

gonzostrike said:


> unfortunately, zedro, the terms "device" and "invention" are "terms of art" and regularly used in patent applications and grants. they aren't necessarily literally accurate.
> 
> it's sorta like when cops say they "responded to the scene" instead of saying they "went there". just a stupid lingo/jargon thing that is almost nonsensical.


ya i know, that sorta thing makes me ill, like listening to a bunch of politicians dance around reality...


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## ronny (Apr 2, 2004)

*Very similar to the Bullit.*



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> looks like a heavier SC Bullit...how does it compare???...would you add a floating break set up???


The Joker is similar to the Bullit but the frame is a little bit lighter and you have the option of a standard headtube or 1.5" and can run a 5" or 7" rear shock. The Joker I had for the summer had a floating brake that came with the bike. It helped with brake jack of course but it was over kill for the type of riding I was doing so I got the bike without it. I would not add a floating brake unless you are doing a lot of fast DH sort of riding. For trail riding and freeriding I did not find brake jack to be a big issue on the Joker.


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

JM. said:


> This is still Mountain Bike Review website. There's more than 2 reviews here.


when i get older will i become more of a smart ass (like yourself) or will i mature (unlike yourself) and of course i know that man (im obviously not talking about that) im talking about australian mags etc...its pathetic...there all pumped full of XC crap...


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

BJ- said:


> when i get older will i become more of a smart ass (like yourself) or will i mature (unlike yourself) and of course i know that man (im obviously not talking about that) im talking about australian mags etc...its pathetic...there all pumped full of XC crap...


Sir, in JM's defense, what he is refering to in regards to there being more than two reviews here, is the section of mtbr.com that is dedicated to product reviews by actual owners of bikes. [ As opposed to shameless spam like this joker review]. I don't believe he was intentionally being a smart-ass towards you.


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Review...*

BJ... Post some photos of you riding...



BJ- said:


> when i get older will i become more of a smart ass (like yourself) or will i mature (unlike yourself) and of course i know that man (im obviously not talking about that) im talking about australian mags etc...its pathetic...there all pumped full of XC crap...


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

Forest said:


> BJ... Post some photos of you riding...


when riding im the one who usually takes the pics...lol...but i have a couple...there not very good and i have noone of actually getting air...just railing corners and riding bridges etc...

ill PM you some stuff...

heres a pic from the weekend tho...


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## Zonic Man (Dec 19, 2003)

BJ- said:


> i would like nothing more than do to a write up for u guys (if this is directed at me) but something i would like to see reviwed and something i thnk more attention needs to payed towards are FR bikes and FR specific componentry or parts...in australia (where i live) the FR community is being badly ignored and neglected...ive only seen 2 reviwes on FR bike in the last 2-3 years...and they were on a Kona Stinky and a Specialized Big Hit expert...they were both very brief and disapointing for they lacked in content...


Holy crap.

And Forrest. Nice job, buddy. I'm actually surprised some of that prose came out of your fingertips, knowing your affinity for misspellings and improper grammar!


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## Acadian (Jan 1, 2004)

BJ- said:


> ...its pathetic...there all pumped full of XC crap...


 what is wrong with XC?  I duuno..I like all kinds of riding - from XC to DS to DH... as long as you are on your bike it's all FUN in my opinion.


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Jed*

Thanks Jed... By the way... Where did you go to school?????



Zonic Man said:


> Holy crap.
> 
> And Forrest. Nice job, buddy. I'm actually surprised some of that prose came out of your fingertips, knowing your affinity for misspellings and improper grammar!


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Riding...*

Acadian, you hit it on the head my brother...

Thanks,Forrest



Acadian said:


> what is wrong with XC?  I duuno..I like all kinds of riding - from XC to DS to DH... as long as you are on your bike it's all FUN in my opinion.


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Hey Renegade....*

This review was done by the owner of this bike...

Thanks for your reply



Renegade said:


> Sir, in JM's defense, what he is refering to in regards to there being more than two reviews here, is the section of mtbr.com that is dedicated to product reviews by actual owners of bikes. [ As opposed to shameless spam like this joker review]. I don't believe he was intentionally being a smart-ass towards you.


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## Zonic Man (Dec 19, 2003)

Slayer77 said:


> Thanks Jed... By the way... Where did you go to school?????


http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/?flash=1

http://www.mcgeorge.edu/

I'm pretty sure that my sarcasm was lost in the post as well, judging by your response....

and oh yeah....

NO CUTTING!


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## Slayer77 (Jan 13, 1998)

*Zonic RAM*

There you go again you REEENESSS... It not lost... St. Mary's.... No wonder... JK



Zonic Man said:


> http://www.stmarys-ca.edu/?flash=1
> 
> http://www.mcgeorge.edu/
> 
> ...


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