# Early morning nutrition for training



## Deartist7 (Sep 28, 2014)

Hi everyone. I had thyroid cancer and got my thyroid removed earlier this year, and as everyone with this type of cancer, ended up taking levothyroxine each morning. I haven't considered any other option than taking it the morning since that's what my endocrinologist set me up for so it's just mornings for now. 

Since I have to wait 1 hour before eating after taking the pill, my whole morning routine is out of shape now and I'm not able to go out as early as before since I have to wait an extra hour. I stick to morning rides unless work or college get in the way, since that's the time we race at and I like to keep that part the same. I also struggle in the morning-noon heat so I like to train there to endure it better and get my mind used to it and all the hydration and cooling aspects of it.

That being said, my previous routine wasn't exactly perfect. I don't know what works for me, only what hasn't been causing "too many" problems.
Stress is a big problem, and sleep is as well. I'm a anxious individual, and my consistency on anything involving health is always off.
Riding is the only thing which seems to straighten me up so I stick to it religiously. Even then, I don't always have the same breakfast, same hours of sleep, or same motivation for each training session, ride or race.
That's why I never really know what is causing an meh-day, or a stomach problem: could be the stress, the crappy night of sleep, the nutrition, the unbearable weight of existence, etc.

Having said that, I really want to get on top of things and at least get to know my body better and treat it fairly, specially now after a cancer scare. 

What has been "working": I always have a regular or big breakfast, doesn't matter if it's a big ride or a short race. 
It's usually oatmeal with fruit, or pancakes with fruit, or eggs, plantain and beans. The typical Honduran breakfast. Add a little cheese on the side and the occasional tortilla. And coffee, never forget the coffee.

If I have 1.5 to 2 hours of digestion, I rarely have trouble with it, but the days I do, I can't really tell if it was the nutrition. So, right off the bat, I know that I have to pay more attention to what I'm eating and see how I react.
Also, my body tends to get anxious before a ride and I always feel the need to take a dump. One of those you are not really happy with and don't feel completely relieved, and in fact, leave you with the lingering feeling of a potential mid ride scare. 
And to make it worse, I take a lot of leaks in the morning, but I have a feeling that the culprit is the coffee.

Without taking the pill, having a regular breakfast isn't to much of a problem, but now that I'm taking it for life, I would have to wake up at around 3 AM just to make it work which is very tiring and difficult.
Because of that, I'm wondering if riding fasted or with very light breakfast + fueling during the ride is a better option.

I have fasted previously for Zone 2 rides and I can do a good 1.5 hours of steady climbing no problems. Haven't tried longer. 
But for interval training or races, I don't know if it's a good idea to ride fasted, so I'd need to figure out nutrition for those. Maybe a huge dinner the night before? No idea...

The thing is that I have literally no idea where to start. I have basic knowledge about macro nutrients, electrolyte replenishment and that stuff but that's about it. 

So basic guidance would be a good starting point I guess. Thanks in advance!

P.S. When I refer to training, I mean XC racing training.


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## AP-123 (Nov 24, 2004)

I am by no means a nutritionist so take this with a grain of salt. 

Eating more than I needed to always seemed to cause more problems for me. Paying careful attention, even keeping a written log of food consumption and results helped me develope the ability to pay attention to how my body responds to certain foods.

After many, many years of drinking coffee, I was surprised how much havoc it was wreaking on my GI system. I've since switched to green tea or matcha if at all and never drinking an empty stomach.

Best of luck. I'm glad the cycling has helped!


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## codahale (Oct 6, 2018)

Congrats on beating cancer, man!

Heavily glycolytic work like intervals require carbs, so I wouldn’t recommend trying to do sweet spot or harder on an empty stomach. It’s not impossible, but it’s a really suboptimal way to do it. You end up gassing hard on intervals which are totally doable with a bit of sugar in you.

Your old breakfasts sound like a great option when, as you say, you’ve got time to digest it. But you’re crunched for time, which means you should prioritize fast-digesting foods: low fiber, low fat, simple proteins. That’ll end up in your bloodstream much more quickly. I’m a big fan of Rice Krispies with some whey protein in the morning. It’s not delicious, but I can turn it into pedaling a lot more quickly than, say, oatmeal.

You can also make up for a light breakfast with on-bike nutrition. Personally, I hate every single gel I’ve had except for SiS gels. They’re not super sweet or sticky and you don’t have to wash them down with a bunch of water. Most of my workouts are 1-1.5 hours, and I usually have two gels, so I’m taking in ~200kcal of carbs for a 700-1100kcal workout.

You’re also on the right track about prepping for an early workout the night before. That’s when you should be getting into the slow food — something high in fiber sets you up for a better pre-ride dump, and something with a lot of carbs will top up your glycogen stores.

If you want to get into the actual nuts and bolts of sports nutrition, I’d recommend reading The Endurance Diet by Matt Fitzgerald for one perspective and The Renaissance Periodization Diet by Mike Israetel et al for another. (The RP Diet is more targeted to strength athletes, but they have an e-book on adapting it to endurance sports.) Both are written by actual nutritionists who are also actual athletes and both are really practical. I’d also recommend the Ask A Cycling Coach podcast.

It’s also probably worth talking about this with your endocrinologist, too. If you can shift that pill to before bed, you can just ease back into your old routine and take your time trying different nutritional approaches.


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

I have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation. But Cliff Bars just started making flavors with espresso beans in them. just saying.


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## Deartist7 (Sep 28, 2014)

codahale said:


> Congrats on beating cancer, man!
> 
> Heavily glycolytic work like intervals require carbs, so I wouldn't recommend trying to do sweet spot or harder on an empty stomach. It's not impossible, but it's a really suboptimal way to do it. You end up gassing hard on intervals which are totally doable with a bit of sugar in you.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I appreciate it.

I feel like I haven't ever taken on-bike nutrition seriously enough. I never do it unless I'm on a 3+ hour ride, and even then, it's usually a second bottle of lemonade with sugar and salt, which I can't really tell if it's helping or not. But I don't want to know what will happen without it.
All I know is that long rides tear me apart, and that shorter but intense rides or workouts start strong but finish weak and on the verge of making me pass out, but I just assumed I was too weak for the workload or that I needed more training.

I'd like to try natural options though, but I don't really have anything against gels yet so might as well try them.
So basically, for a light breakfast, you complement it with about 2 gels for workouts 1-1.5 h long? Are those relatively intense or interval-like?
Would that apply similarly for similar duration races? 
I mean, if you're doing a long ride, z2 or that sort of stuff, you either take a bigger breakfast with same amount of gels, or just more gels and solid food? That's how i'm understanding it anyway.

And in that case, If I manage to take a proper breakfast with good digestion time, do I still need a gel or something small? Perhaps that's when it's better to just take a small electrolyte drink or something similar?
And I'm gonna guess it's not about the # of gels but about the carb intake, which surely I have to find out on my own what works for me.

Never thought about the fiber intake the day before, I'll definitely experiment with that since my pre-ride dumps are troublesome.

Thanks for the book recommendations, I'll check them out.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Not sure why, but I'm not a regular person. I have friends that set their watch to taking a dump each day. About a year ago, my doctor recommended I start taking a stool softener at bedtime. It helps me much more in that department. Nothing fancy, just a WalMart brand pill, think its like $8 for a months worth of pills. 

Like you I haven't gone deep down the rabbit hole, but know and understand the basics. In 2017 I had a near death case of pancreatitis. I was very limited on what I could and couldn't eat at first. Over the years following, I learned to listen to my body. I've never kept a food journal, but I know what sets me off and what makes me feel good. If your not sure, a food journal would be a great place to start.

Just a few ideas to chew on. Good luck and congrats on beating cancer!


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## codahale (Oct 6, 2018)

Deartist7 said:


> I feel like I haven't ever taken on-bike nutrition seriously enough. I never do it unless I'm on a 3+ hour ride, and even then, it's usually a second bottle of lemonade with sugar and salt, which I can't really tell if it's helping or not. But I don't want to know what will happen without it.
> All I know is that long rides tear me apart, and that shorter but intense rides or workouts start strong but finish weak and on the verge of making me pass out, but I just assumed I was too weak for the workload or that I needed more training.


Yeah, historically I haven't eaten on the bike either. And, like, you won't die, but it's also just physiologically impossible to sustain high intensity work without a good supply of sugar. The progress I've experienced personally with a good nutrition plan makes me profoundly regret all of the dumb **** I did before this.



Deartist7 said:


> I'd like to try natural options though, but I don't really have anything against gels yet so might as well try them.
> So basically, for a light breakfast, you complement it with about 2 gels for workouts 1-1.5 h long? Are those relatively intense or interval-like?
> Would that apply similarly for similar duration races?
> I mean, if you're doing a long ride, z2 or that sort of stuff, you either take a bigger breakfast with same amount of gels, or just more gels and solid food? That's how i'm understanding it anyway.


If you think about gels as food, you're gonna have a bad time. They're fuel. No one in their right mind would eat them if they didn't need to. You could get exactly the same effect by eating actual sugar, but the gel form factor is way easier to manage when you're on the bike. Plus, your body needs water to process glucose, so gels like SiS include enough water to be isotonic.

As an example, this morning I did a TR workout (Monitor) which was an hour with 40m total of 6m sweet spot intervals, lots of speed endurance work and drills. For me, that's 239W normalized power and about 775kcal of work. About an hour before the workout, I had Rice Krispies, whey, and some pistachios. For the actual workout, I had 1L of Precision Hydration 1500 and two SiS gels. I ate one of the gels immediately after the warmup intervals and another about 2/5ths of the way in. I drank the hydration mix during the rest intervals. About 15 minutes after the workout, I had some more Rice Krispies/whey/pistachios.

It's a lot of food, but I'm on a fat loss diet using the RP Diet app so I'm actually on a ~800kcal/day caloric deficit - just not when I'm working out. When I'm working out, I have carbs coming out of my ears. Once I'm done, I'm eating whole foods and lean meats and slow carbs.



Deartist7 said:


> And I'm gonna guess it's not about the # of gels but about the carb intake, which surely I have to find out on my own what works for me.


It's about two things, really.

First, matching how long it takes you to actually digest what you're eating with when you'll need that energy. If you eat slow carbs before a workout, they won't be in your bloodstream when your muscles need them. Likewise, if you eat fast carbs hours before or after a workout, they'll be in your bloodstream when your muscles don't need them and they'll be stored as fat.

Second, matching how much energy you're expending during a workout with the energy you're eating before, during, and immediately after a workout. If you're trying to get faster by working at high intensity, your job is to give your body enough fuel to make it easier to work at that high intensity and once you're done working, enough fuel to let it make the specific adaptations to the stimulus that you just provided it in the form of high-intensity work.


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