# The first titanium mountain bike?



## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

I heard a holy grail type story at my LBS a few weeks ago. The shop owner knows I'm into vintage mountain bikes, and he tells me there's a collector in the area (East Contra Costa County, Northern Ca.) who has the first ever titanium mountain bike. He said the guy turned down a 20K offer.

I don't know what to think. Could it be legit? What bike/builder could it be?


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## TheHolc (May 17, 2016)

How could they verify it was the absolute first ever? It would have to have some type of documentation correct? I would imagine it would have been in articles and what not...


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## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

Wikipedia says Merlin was a "pioneer" in titanium mtn bikes but it seems like they were the first production company. I don't think the first one originated on the east coast but I'm often wrong 

I wonder if it's something one of the Repack guys built?


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

El Sapo Rojo said:


> I wonder if it's something one of the Repack guys built?


With the cost of ti, and the specialist welding techniques - I'd say not.

Not suggesting that, given the right tools and materials, that those early builders weren't capable, just that they were doing so well building things in steel for a limited but growing market that there was no point in building from ti.

Ti road bikes started off in the 70s. I'm interested to know who decided to take that to the MTB world and try a ti MTB frame, especially if it was a prototype or one-off custom build.

I think that once XC racing took off, then ti frames had a place to be.

I do like the early to mid 90s, when a heap of mainstream brands had a ti frame - GT, Kona, Mongoose, DiamondBack, as well as brands like Merlin, Moots, Dean, Litespeed.

Steel is real, but ti is fly. 

Grumps


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Having said that...

Cue CK to come along and tell us about the time he, Joe Breeze and a roadie for Grand Funk Railroad got a little loose and broke into an aerospace lab during the Cold War and "liberated" a heap of titanium tubing.

They took the tubes to Ritchey who, during a night of burritos, tequila and argon gas, welded up the first ti MTB frame and used the leftovers to make ti bull moose bars and QR skewers.

Because the truth is often stranger than fiction...

Grumps


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

I wish...

https://merlintitanium.com/fat_chance_titanium_000.html

Looks like the above link might be close to the real deal


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

If the offer was really for $20k he should have taken it. 

If I were guessing I'd say that Gary Helfrich was the builder of the first Ti mountain bike, either at Fat Chance or Merlin. He seemed to be the first guy really pushing titanium as a frame material. However, that's just a guess.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

It’s “not a fat”

He posts here sometimes


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> If the offer was really for $20k he should have taken it.
> 
> If I were guessing I'd say that Gary Helfrich was the builder of the first Ti mountain bike, either at Fat Chance or Merlin. He seemed to be the first guy really pushing titanium as a frame material. However, that's just a guess.


This. 20K would buy the first and second ti mtb. There would be some change left to buy a steel Fat Chance which would ride better.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> Having said that...
> 
> Cue CK to come along and tell us about the time he, Joe Breeze and a roadie for Grand Funk Railroad got a little loose and broke into an aerospace lab during the Cold War and "liberated" a heap of titanium tubing.
> 
> ...


I have better stories than that one.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

I bet there's a bonded titanium Teledyne or Alan cyclocross prototype out there somewhere... I remember bonded titanium Miyatas, too. A framebuilder once showed me an old US mil-spec ti alloy tube from his collection that he had to sign an NDA to get, so you have to think some navy welder might have grafted together a frame out of military offcuts at some point as well. Perhaps an early ti rough-stuff paratrooper bike?

That said, Helfrich or Augsperger would be top of mind for me as well in terms of early ti MTBs.


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## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> Having said that...
> 
> Cue CK to come along and tell us about the time he, Joe Breeze and a roadie for Grand Funk Railroad got a little loose and broke into an aerospace lab during the Cold War and "liberated" a heap of titanium tubing.
> 
> ...


I can hear the scratches in GFR record playing when Ritchey laid down those puddle welds


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

El Sapo Rojo said:


> I can hear the scratches in GFR record playing when Ritchey laid down those puddle welds


Officially, the first ti mtb was welded by Helfrich under Fat Chance. There are some words on line from Helfrich about this bike. It seems he tweaked geometry to work w/ titanium.


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## one piece crank (Sep 29, 2008)

Yeah, pretty sure it was Helfrich in the Fat City Somerville-MA days. I have two Merlin Ti handle bars from that era - IIRC the first Ti bar to hit the market.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> I have better stories than that one.


I do not doubt that for one minute. All your stories involve a legend of the cycling world, the music world, or a combination of both. Even your dull stories are awesome. If they installed a bike-rack at the front of the Rainbow Bar and Grill, you'd be the reason why.

Your next book should be your memoir. As a music nut and a MTBer, it would be THE READ of the millennium.

Grumps


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## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

one piece crank said:


> Yeah, pretty sure it was Helfrich in the Fat City Somerville-MA days. I have two Merlin Ti handle bars from that era - IIRC the first Ti bar to hit the market.


I see that he's been working for Sonoma County. That is pretty close to me. It actually could be him, and one of his first bikes. Now the 20K part?


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Gary was at Fat City in Somerville helping Chris make Ti frames; Second Spin Cycles: 1986 Fat Chance Titanium

Teledyne was the first US made Ti bicycle frame, road only. Most are cracked at the seat collar bolt, and one of the famous "death forks". 
Teledyne Titan main


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Funny, was reading the first few going, gotta be Gary Helfrich. 

Yup. 

I have one of his Arctos frame building jigs, love the thing. Hell of a nice guy too...


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## rockychrysler (Aug 9, 2003)

banks said:


> Gary was at Fat City in Somerville helping Chris make Ti frames; Second Spin Cycles: 1986 Fat Chance Titanium
> 
> Teledyne was the first US made Ti bicycle frame, road only. Most are cracked at the seat collar bolt, and one of the famous "death forks".
> Teledyne Titan main


banks ftw. way to proffer, mr. history.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

A lot of good information here.
https://www.ibiscycles.com/about/303030/9_gary_helfrich/


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

Who built the '89 Marin proto ti bike I was looking at Richard Buckley riding uphill at the Lemurian? Same for Fisher's '88 prototype he was riding at the last Rumpstomper in Annadel. 

I know they aren't even close to the first but just curious since they aren't that common, and no one answered the question over on an earlier thread about the Marin.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

unicrown junkie said:


> Who built the '89 Marin proto ti bike I was looking at Richard Buckley riding uphill at the Lemurian? Same for Fisher's '88 prototype he was riding at the last Rumpstomper in Annadel.
> 
> I know they aren't even close to the first but just curious since they aren't that common, and no one answered the question over on an earlier thread about the Marin.


Merlin for the Marin?


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## newsboymerlin (Jan 7, 2005)

El Sapo Rojo said:


> I see that he's been working for Sonoma County. That is pretty close to me. It actually could be him, and one of his first bikes. Now the 20K part?


old post but... do we have news about this very special one/bike?


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I would guess the first would be hard to pin down but long ago now I had interest in a Fat City dealer and worked for a firm that had Trek as a customer all at a time when Miller welding equipment and fixtures in manufacturing were all topics. Titanium, Chris C, Gary H, welding equipment and manufacturing challenges to make some things at scale were all topics.

Who was first was first at MTB stuff always hard to believe because as amateurs before I was aware of the first west coast catalogs and products, we tried to make better off road stuff than was available. Earlier in the 1970s a cousin of my mothers in Bellingham, WA who wrote a book on wheels visited with his home made bikes and stuff on a cross country tour but also described stuff he made for the mountains near his home. When I had old 26rs and a 1981 StumpJumper he thought the wheel size and gearing were all wrong which is funny to think about now.

It was a given that same people who supplied Miller welding equipment where I worked after college said bike makers were starting to buy their stuff instead of braze lugs. The millwrights where I worked in the 1980s would bring up titanium challenges and at that time expressed doubt about how working with it could scale the way they saw Trek down the road growing.

This would for sure have been late 1970s and a 1980/81 visits to CO skiing and fishing, but I also remember local (WI) discussion of a shop owner and builder with a bike shop in Steamboat Springs and visit there not seeing anything titanium for never forgetting the site of what I think were "Moots mounts" and where Moots started.

I've mostly been indifferent to all the retro stuff except for keeping two made in MA Fat City bikes but the topic caught my attention having bought a Moots all road bike this season and the smiles I get from it, where, and how I ride it. Age has become a frustrating annoyance some days so I also get some entertainment with the status of fellow boomer bike nerds.


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## Antimatter (Jan 3, 2018)

They may not be the first but in the 90's, a few riders were on Litespeed titanium hardtails.


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