# possible couterfeit suntour epixon purchased on amizon



## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

think i may have received a counterfeit suntour epixon fork on amizon. went to suntour site to identify and everything seems wrong about it from the serial number being in the wrong place to paint looking less than mfg quality. any REAL suntour owners out there who can help me identify my shock series and/or help me figure out if its the real deal or a fake as i suspect. appreciate it. jimbob


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

You probably have a OEM model.

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/so-i-got-counterfeit-suntour-epicon-china-933148.html


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

would you happen to know where the serial number is located on the oem model? because its not where suntour says it should be


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Does the fork work as it should?


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## Deartist7 (Sep 28, 2014)

Can you send the listing on amazon where you bought it? I've been saving up for one, 27.5 model, and i'm getting worried that maybe i'm aiming for a fake Epicon.


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

*sorry about the lag clyde. kids...*



Glide the Clyde said:


> Does the fork work as it should?


i have not installed it yet as it seemed exceedingly suspect with the crap paint job and odd serial number placement. off bike the action seems smooth enough but hard to judge that way. do you think i should give it a go and see what it feels like? was afraid of complicating any possible return after cutting head tube i think your right i will give it a go and post after a quick ride following install. thanks for your input.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

I would continue to try to verify validity of the fork but if you install, don't cut the steer tube until you've had the opportunity to try it for a few rides. 

Is it an air fork? (Sorry, not too fmqiliar with the newer SR offerings)


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

They call it an air shock. Ill give it a shock😊


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Have you called Suntour with the serial number you have?

Until you have, you're doing nothing but speculating, for no reason, I might add...


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> would you happen to know where the serial number is located on the oem model? because its not where suntour says it should be


Where's the serial number on your fork?


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

Serial# painted on back side of crown centered beneath steerer tube. Suntour says it should be in the form of a stamp on the back of arch. There is a stamp there but it is covered in paint and illegible. With a magnifying glass the numbers look like FP 3030 which Is the shock that was recently recalled. But that was a coil shock, NOT an air spring as this is and the weights are conflicting also. This shock weighs 1870grams. Suntour lists weight as 1680grams for this shock. The weight for the coil shock(3030) obviously being much higher. I'm confused and perplexed. Global cyclists says it's authentic and Amazon stands behind it so I'm inclined to take it on faith. Going ahead with install. I'll update as soon as I'm able to form an opinion on the authenticity of this shock based on the performance. If there's anyone out there agonizing over the choice between suntour over Rockshox or another high priced entry level bare bones fork...I'm sure you'll be anxiously awaiting my post so I'll get it out as soon as I know. I took some time to save for this upgrade and only want the best bang for my hard earned bucks. Thanks for everyone's input to this point.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Would they counterfeit a Suntour fork? Not saying they're crap but...if I was going to fake a fork, I'd fake a RS or Fox one maybe? 

You don't get fake cheap Chinese guitars. Fake Gibsons? oh yeah.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

I don't think they're counterfeited, as such - more likely oem parts that are rejected and find their way out of the factory to be built up and sold.

OP: See this warning from SRAM (not your forks, I know, but it sounds similar):

https://www.sram.com/rockshox/authentication-notice

I'd take pictures of yours and send them to Suntour for checking before you do *anything* with the fork - If it turns out to be dodgy, you have no way of knowing what parts have been compromised - maybe the stanchion will will come away from the crown the first time you really hit the brakes hard, etc... etc...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Misterg said:


> I'd take pictures of yours and send them to Suntour for checking before you do *anything* with the fork


Good advice maybe. Personally, I doubt they are fake but there is a lot of funky stuff crawls out of China. Manufacturers do sometimes produce versions of the same fork but to different spec for the OEM and retail markets so I'd say it's most likely that this is genuine fork made for the OEM market then sold off as surplus.


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## StuntmanMike (Jul 2, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Would they counterfeit a Suntour fork? Not saying they're crap but...if I was going to fake a fork, I'd fake a RS or Fox one maybe?
> 
> You don't get fake cheap Chinese guitars. Fake Gibsons? oh yeah.


Haha, I was thinking the same thing.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

StuntmanMike said:


> Haha, I was thinking the same thing.


Me too. I always wonder why they'd fake a fake. Maybe there's money in it but can't be much.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The Chinese will sell any old cheap crap though so you never know. On eBay you can get full-carbon road forks for £20 ($29) delivered! How dense do you need to be to think that such a product can be anything other than junk?


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> The Chinese will sell any old cheap crap though so you never know. On eBay you can get full-carbon road forks for £20 ($29) delivered! How dense do you need to be to think that such a product can be anything other than junk?


It's all in the weave????


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Optimus said:


> It's all in the weave????


Or isn't, as the case may be.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> Serial# painted on back side of crown centered beneath steerer tube. Suntour says it should be in the form of a stamp on the back of arch.


No they don't.

http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/cs/icons/how-to-find-the-serial-number/


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

Oops.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> think i may have received a counterfeit suntour epixon fork on amizon. went to suntour site to identify and everything seems wrong about it from the serial number being in the wrong place to paint looking less than mfg quality. any REAL suntour owners out there who can help me identify my shock series and/or help me figure out if its the real deal or a fake as i suspect. appreciate it. jimbob


It's not just the fork that is counterfeit, it's the whole freakin website, never buy from Amizon


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

sfgiantsfan said:


> It's not just the fork that is counterfeit, it's the whole freakin website, never buy from Amizon


Good point actually. Amazon seems to convey a greater sense of legitimacy and honesty than eBay but it's not the case. I have seen plenty of face stuff for sale on Amazon. It is no safer than eBay.

Still don't think these forks are fake though. Just Suntour!


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## thx138 (Aug 5, 2013)

Post up some pictures of this fork, not that I'll be any help just want to see it. 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

After further research, careful consideration of the facts and the thought processes opened up by you good dudes in this forum it is my belief that misterG hit the nail on the head. I like the way you think pal. Im almost certain that my shock is a byproduct of the recent Suntour recall. If im right they took the lowers from the recall shocks that have the stamped serial numbers on the arch, painted over the serials(very thickly i might add which is what drew my suspicion in the first place because it's literally pooled up in only that spot), and rebuilt their low end aftermarkets using the surplus of recall parts that they ended up with. You can hardly blame them. You wouldn't simply throw the entire product away because of a faulty threaded connection inside the shock and throw away 100k casted lowers. You would strip them down and start over but salvaging as much as you can of the recall parts to minimize any revenue losses as a result of the recall. Pretty standard business practice really. It explains why they had to relocate the serial numbers to the crown, why the stamped numbers are painted over and why the shock has no distinctive markings denoting the model type. It also explains the conflicting weights of this shock. They took the lowers from the recalled 3030(which were coils)and retooled them to be air forks. Its not the worst thing in the world i guess. As long as the forks perform as advertised and have the full warranty and liabilities covered by the manufacturer..im good to go with them. I completely disassembled and reassembled the forks and am satisfied that they are solid and safe to use. They only thing i cannot confirm is the head tube to crown conection which i stressed as much as possible to ensure its not gona come apart. I await your opinions and input before i go ahead with install incase someone thinks of something that i haven't. Peace


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> You wouldn't simply throw the entire product away because of a faulty threaded connection inside the shock and throw away 100k casted lowers. You would strip them down and start over but salvaging as much as you can of the recall parts to minimize any revenue losses as a result of the recall. Pretty standard business practice really.


Awful lot of work to refurb a lowest end fork. They'd be money ahead to just **** can them and write off the loss.


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> It explains why they had to relocate the serial numbers to the crown


The crown is where the serial numbers are supposed to be.


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

Its not the lowest end fork. Its a 29" air fork with rebound adjustment and RSLO and weighs only 3.7 lbs. A full 1.5lbs lighter than Rockshox silver 29er air fork(which was a huge factor in my decision to make this purchase). They had over 100,000 these casted, finished and painted parts that no manufacturing company on earth in this day or any day for that matter would consider "**** canning" as you put it when they could easily be used for something else. And if you think that it would be alot of work than id say you don't really understand todays manufacturing or their capabilities. No insult intended, your probably just young and not versed in the manufacturing processes as myself. Again, no insult intended. I appreciate all opinions as they all open up a thought process that will eventually lead to the facts being born out. It probably took an engineer 15 minutes to come up with a set of cad drawings for a lathe operator to set a jig and retool stanchion tubes to fit the existing lowers to turn out new air springs. And with insurance coverage for such things as recalls and the ability to reuse the lower for another product...I'm sure it only increased their profit margins for this product. Which is probably why they are pushing this product everywhere i have looked(Amazon, eBay, Alibaba, etc). There is always the possibility that im completely wrong but after disassembling the shock and finding everything intact and and secure im confident that this is an authentic sumtour product that was assembled in their facilities by qualified individuals. Last thing for me to do is register my product for warranties and install. Thanks again for everyone's input. Helped alot. Sincerely, jimbobfrisbeefreak.


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

I am 50 years old and have spent 30 yrs successfully manufacturing and managing manufacturing production in the aerospace and medical arenas. I routinely evaluate the cost of rework vs write offs. You're choices were Suntour, or RS Silver, both lowest end options. 100,000 bad units? Awesome QC.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

jimbobfrisbeefreak said:


> They had over 100,000 these casted, finished and painted parts that no manufacturing company on earth in this day or any day for that matter would consider "**** canning" as you put it when they could easily be used for something else.


Yeah, they would. I'm not saying they did but you might be shocked to find out how little stuff like that costs to make in china.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

I really doubt that these are 'official' rebuilds - much more likely the legitimate factory has a level of reject parts (die-casting machine run-up, lots rejected for poor metallurgy, or wall thickness, or something) that they toss into a dumpster having scored out the serial numbers to show they are reject. When the dumpster is full, they sell it by weight for scrap metal or ship it back to their supplier for recycling.

Someone along the way gets hold of these (takes them out the back door of the factory or just gets them dropped off by a "friendly" driver) and makes them look like the real thing using whatever parts they can find and puts them on that wonder that is ebay where some Westerner will part with 2 weeks pay for them (the equivalent of $2k, say). 

You don't have to sell many.

This sort of thing is widespread, across all sorts of products - there were some reject climbing harnesses a month, or so ago, that had been cut before being scrapped. The seller had got hold of them somehow, stitched them back together and was selling them at a bargain price on ebay.

Getting stuff made in industrial China is so easy - there are plently of factories that can/will copy whatever you walk in with (it'll look the same, but that's about it). Getting stuff made *consistently well* is the hard part and needs really strong management. 

Every factory has a 'back door', and ebay provides an easy way for individuals to sell things that 'look right' for Western prices (think 10x what you expect things to cost).

All that said, there's nothing to say that this is what has happened to the OP's forks, but if there's doubt, get Suntour USA to confirm they are legit.

(29 years in manufacturing, some of it in China)


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

My sister used to work for intel and was one of the people who decided where they would build fabrication plants. It was interesting talking to her about the different countries and why you could or couldn't use them as she knew all about the infrastructure, politics, communications etc. 

The obvious question was 'What about China?' The answer was very definite, you couldn't even think about it. She said that China is so fundamentally corrupt that they would, without question, rip off the chip designs and anything else they could manage. 

It's a nightmare. Over the past few years I've bought things like microphones and headphones on line and if you buy the best sellers, like an SM58 mic, it's very hard to be sure that you're not buying a fake. Once you know how to spot them you can go on eBay and see how many fakes are out there, it's a lot.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

cobba said:


> No they don't.
> 
> http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/cs/icons/how-to-find-the-serial-number/


maybe that is fake post?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

anyway, just get a decent used fork on pinkbike classifieds


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

cjsb said:


> just get a decent used fork..


Decent, used and fork in the same sentence? Mmm, interesting.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> Decent, used and fork in the same sentence? Mmm, interesting.


i was looking at a Pike 130, being sold thru a shop that I know back in SoCal, but alas I amreluctant to spend $500-600 unless my wife is out of town for a few days. also, althought I like the idea of more travel and 35s, I am wondering how different the Yelli will ride going from a 100 f29 to a 130 pike. ha will slacken, bb will increase. not necessarily bad but the bike fits great right now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

cjsb said:


> maybe that is fake post?


Why would you think that?


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

cjsb said:


> i was looking at a Pike 130, being sold thru a shop that I know back in SoCal, but alas I amreluctant to spend $500-600 unless my wife is out of town for a few days. also, althought I like the idea of more travel and 35s, I am wondering how different the Yelli will ride going from a 100 f29 to a 130 pike. ha will slacken, bb will increase. not necessarily bad but the bike fits great right now.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll wager you that if you make the change you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Optimus said:


> I'll wager you that if you make the change you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner.


I have heard that too in the Yelli forum. If Ican have them deliver in the evening when she is busy she won't even notice.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Have the carrier put the shipment in will-call for you to pick up at the center.


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## jimbobfrisbeefreak (Jun 18, 2016)

Wow, you guys are alright in my book. I thought for certain that this was a forum of self inflated youngsters. Optimus..you have my respect sir. I am also 50, was a captain in the USAF and am now a contractor in California. Seems you know a bit more about manufacturing and its practices than myself. Foot in mouth, i humbly defer to your judgement. I do appreciate your input. However its misterG who keeps on speaking to me in my language. I think your on the right track sir. In the 70's my grandfather made his living as a finish carpenter. He would supplement his income by dumpster diving the Pioneer plant in Los Angeles to recover reject speakers. Sometimes the flaw in these speakers would be invisible. He would take these home and would mount them into tower type cabinets that he made himself. And being that he was a master woodworker his cabinets were very beautiful and well beyond anything Pioneer could do as a speaker manufacturer. If yall remember (as im sure you do)...we all had similar speaker cabinets in those days. These were especially nice looking and appeared to be very high end due to the level of craftsmanship. And they were except for the fact that they were speakers that didnt pass Pioneers qc even tho they functioned perfectly. I think this could be a similar situation as misterg insightfully insinuated. I think im gonna just stop thinking so much go on faith from here out. Worst case scenario the head tube breaks off at my local skate park when im bustin a tabletop out of the bowl and i bust my head. Second worst case scenario....the shock doesn't perform how i would like it to, im out $200 and need another. I can live with either. I've lived a charmed life so far and things seem to simply work themselves out for me. I expect no less in this situation. Thanks a bunch fellas...its been real.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Do you have any pictures of the speakers your grandfather made? I'd like to see those.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> My sister used to work for intel and was one of the people who decided where they would build fabrication plants. It was interesting talking to her about the different countries and why you could or couldn't use them as she knew all about the infrastructure, politics, communications etc.
> 
> The obvious question was 'What about China?' The answer was very definite, you couldn't even think about it. She said that China is so fundamentally corrupt that they would, without question, rip off the chip designs and anything else they could manage.
> 
> It's a nightmare. Over the past few years I've bought things like microphones and headphones on line and if you buy the best sellers, like an SM58 mic, it's very hard to be sure that you're not buying a fake. Once you know how to spot them you can go on eBay and see how many fakes are out there, it's a lot.


The counterfeit Les Pauls are becoming very hard to discern too. You have to do a lot of due diligence before buying a used one.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Curveball said:


> The counterfeit Les Pauls are becoming very hard to discern too. You have to do a lot of due diligence before buying a used one.


Yip. They are figuring out which small details they are getting wrong and fixing them. I've seen several used SGs for sale locally that I could tell were fake. It's a bad situation.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> Yip. They are figuring out which small details they are getting wrong and fixing them. I've seen several used SGs for sale locally that I could tell were fake. It's a bad situation.


Fortunately, I have G&Ls and a Carvin which seem to be overlooked by the counterfeiters.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

I just use the simple rule of thumb:

0-$100? Online, Store, Wherever
$100-$500? Store, Manufacturer Direct
$500+? Work with a retailer/store and likely have the manufacturer rep involved

Then:

0-10% sale? No question
10-25% sale? Whats the reason. Old model? Refurb? 
25-50% sale? Is it broken? Liquidation?
50%+ sale? More than likely its broken and/or a fake. 

So when you see stuff that is over $300 and is claiming to have original price tags of over $600? The BS sensor should be blaring pretty loudly.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Going back to the suspension fork, my advice would be if you are unhappy with it or concerned, just return it.
After all, you are trusting your life to that fork when out on the trail. What if you fit it and it performs fine, but has substandard parts? It may fail in six months time when you are descending a fire road at 25mph.
Unless you can get solid verification that it's a genuine Suntour produced fork, l just wouldn't take the chance.


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