# Fast at 50?



## thxboy (Jul 26, 2010)

Hey good people!

Back in my late 20s I raced quite often. My speciality was 24 hour solo events. I’ve raced on the world stage and tons of nationals. 

My wife and I got married and decided we needed to have kids. I had to put MTB on the back burner for a while and just go into “maintenance” mode for the last 15 years or so. 

Since my kids are older I’ve got more free time. I also got motivated by my 50th birthday coming up this year. I set out to try and regain my old form if I could, unsure how my body would respond after so long. I contacted some old sponsors who set me up with coaching and we’ve been working for about 8-10 months at some really focused training. My weekly workload is much less than in my 20s (since I’m still in “dad” mode). About 8-12 hours a week vs the 30+ hours a week. After consulting with my coaches we decided to work on intensity and endurance instead of base and LSD rides. Assuming muscle memory from years of riding is still there. After about 6 months I’m down 30lbs and FTP is at 330 watts. I kinda shocked how much my body has reacted. Weight is still peeling off and I’m focused on maintaining power to hopefully get to FTP 400 in the next year and see if I can hit 4.0watts per kilogram. Next month I’m going to work racing into the training schedule. 

Anyone else finding that intensity training vs long hours works for them in the senior category? What are folks training strategies looking like?


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

I’m 57 and spin frequently. What has helped immensely has been intervals, speed challenges and tabata on the spin bike. 

I am cranking up hills like there’s no tomorrow right now. I ride at over 90% max heart rate for 2 hours plus. 

None of this was possible just with building a distance/fitness base. 





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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't train or have any idea what kind of wattage I put out, but at 67, I've been getting to the top of 3000 foot climbs as fast as I ever have - even got a few PR's last summer.
Some of that is better gear, for sure, but I'm just getting out and riding a lot.

My wife turned 66 last summer and, after starting at age 58, made it to the ridge near Park City at record time last August. That's a near 3000 foot climb to 9500 feet.
I know we're both "on the back 9" but we're still playing hard!

What's working for us is just getting out and riding.


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm 10 yrs behind MSU ^^ but echo his experience exactly. I took longer to rebuild a base than I expected to but I'm steadily getting better/faster/stronger. After a couple years, I started keeping up with and then dropping riders I used to chase with my tongue dragging the ground. Like MSU, I don't follow a training program and only last year started using Strava just to keep up with miles. I just ride - sometime slow and pokey and sometimes hammering so hard I surprise myself - but if I'm not having fun, I'm doing it wrong. Gauging by the reactions of my riding buddies, whatever I'm doing is working.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

thxboy said:


> Anyone else finding that intensity training vs long hours works for them in the senior category? What are folks training strategies looking like?


I previously subscribed to the 'make every ride count and go hard' line of thinking, and have decided to scale back on that. Right now it's base, and then when things ramp up I'd like to keep it about 85/15% between low/hi intensity. Recovery should result in notable gains.

I would ride hard a lot for fear of losing fitness. Not a good plan.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

at 56 im building my base back up. There are multiple way to do this. I have been doing 20 miles and 3000' of climbing which wrecks me the next day. My last ride 30 mies and 4300' of climbing I listened to my body and kept my heart rate low because I was pacing myself for the long haul. It worked. So having a ride where you pace and work on leg muscles is one important ride to throw in your mix, as well as standing and sprinting on short trips. Vary that **** up.


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## thxboy (Jul 26, 2010)

Crankout said:


> I previously subscribed to the 'make every ride count and go hard' line of thinking, and have decided to scale back on that. Right now it's base, and then when things ramp up I'd like to keep it about 85/15% between low/hi intensity. Recovery should result in notable gains.
> 
> I would ride hard a lot for fear of losing fitness. Not a good plan.


What's I've learned works for me is -
Make a couple rides count. Meaning J have two days a week of focused, hard intervals. Two days a week of endurance rides and the rest is off or recovery. Every 4th week is a rest week with just recovery and maybe a light endurance ride or two. The idea of "you get the gains when you recover" is new to me and absolutely works. If you ride hard everyday I don't believe you're seeing the gains you should.

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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

thxboy said:


> Anyone else finding that intensity training vs long hours works for them in the senior category? What are folks training strategies looking like?


-yes, and I recently read Friel's 'fast after 50' or whatever it's called, and it seems all the studies show that maintaining intensity is critical for masters. 
It seems you're certainly on the right track with training, and with your experience you probably know more than most here, and would also have a good feel for how your training is going. I was a 'respectable' cat1 25-30 years ago, took a bunch of time off, got back into riding at 44 (after getting kind of fat, totally out of shape etc). I've been able to be a regular on the cat1 masters podium on 5 to 8 hrs per week (short races, usually around 100 minutes). I also race cat1/2 masters cyclocross, and don't do quite as well there, but mid-pack is ok in that fast group. 
Short Hard hills are probably what I do most often for intensity, and one 'long' ride of 3-4 hrs at least once every two weeks. My hardest workout is a 10 second hill I do as a repeat, it's rides as a loop, and it's steep enough that I couldn't ride it until I'd been riding about 2 years again; I do six repeats and then six more later, or 12 repeats, they really cook me, I get droopy eyelids the evening after doing those. When I first made it up that hill, the thought occurred to me; what if I was strong enough to ride this hill over and over until I got bored?, so I started riding it 2x, then 3x etc. 
Between harder days, if the weather is bad, I grind for an hour on the trainer in front of the tv, but I try to ride outside if I can.

There are quite a few older fast guys around here (Seattle area), it's really encouraging to see guys older than me who are faster.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

thxboy said:


> Anyone else finding that intensity training vs long hours works for them in the senior category? What are folks training strategies looking like?


It seems to work for Ned Overend: https://www.velonews.com/2015/03/tr...verend-high-intensity-training-masters_362176

In the winter I do a lot of Nordic skate skiing -- talk about high intensity (for me at least)! So I have a couple a days of interval workouts on skis each week through the winter and feel ready to go hard once the road and trails melt.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I'm not an any training plan, but what works for me is to push big gears, climb a lot, and try to ride 3-6 times a week. I usually aim for loops that net out at a minimum of 100' gain per mile and I run 32 x 11-32 gearing much of the time.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Seems like you could relate to this article and might find it helpful. A bit of a pitch though...

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/wko4-case-study-a-former-pro-mountain-biker-regains-his-fitness/


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

thxboy said:


> Anyone else finding that intensity training vs long hours works for them in the senior category? What are folks training strategies looking like?


As much volume as I can (usually 13-14hrs/wk) at <70% FTP, with focused intervals at least once per week for at least 6 weeks leading up to a race. Most of the year I go easy all the time. Doing more intensity than that has led to overtraining since I got old (mid 50s). 60 now. Takes at least a week to recover from a race, so no stage races. My recover was always poor though, just worse now.

I used to ride hard all the time, but I can't do that anymore. If you can tolerate it and have a good base from your earlier days, then it should fine. Oddly training as I described above hasn't made me slower on race day.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

thxboy said:


> What's I've learned works for me is -
> Make a couple rides count. Meaning J have two days a week of focused, hard intervals. Two days a week of endurance rides and the rest is off or recovery. Every 4th week is a rest week with just recovery and maybe a light endurance ride or two. The idea of "you get the gains when you recover" is new to me and absolutely works. If you ride hard everyday I don't believe you're seeing the gains you should.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For sure. Like I mentioned, after turning 50 I was reluctant more than ever to throttle back for fear of getting weaker. It's just the opposite, or I'm hoping.

I tapered back significantly for about a 2-week period last fall leading up to a long event, and went in feeling so damn fresh. So, there's that.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Ptor said:


> It seems to work for Ned Overend: https://www.velonews.com/2015/03/tr...verend-high-intensity-training-masters_362176
> 
> In the winter I do a lot of Nordic skate skiing -- talk about high intensity (for me at least)! So I have a couple a days of interval workouts on skis each week through the winter and feel ready to go hard once the road and trails melt.


Nordic is brutal; similar to skate skiing, correct? Or the same? I went out for some aggressive xc skiing recently (far from a leisurely pace) for 2 consecutive days and was cooked for a few days following.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

sgltrak said:


> I'm not an any training plan, but what works for me is to push big gears, climb a lot, and try to ride 3-6 times a week. I usually aim for loops that net out at a minimum of 100' gain per mile and I run 32 x 11-32 gearing much of the time.


Sort of the same for me...

I'm happy to be more of a "slacker" sort of MTB rider and work commuter.

Generally don't push my HR beyond maybe 85% and frequently ride longer distances or ~4-5k of climb in 30-40 miles to keep my mind and body in decent shape. I too push more stout gears (36x15 and 32x18 on my SS's) and 34 x 11-32 on the gravel/commuter bike.

I can give some younger folks a good run for the money and like being able to hang with some of my contemporaries (and others ~10+ years younger) who put in significant training time.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I’m 52. I don’t “train” per se but on my regular home trails I favor shorter, more intense rides a few days per week rather than long, slow, distance rides. I don’t have any issues with recovery if I do it this way. When I visit other places then I’ll ride longer, just because I’m on a bike trip. 

I’m actually riding faster and better now than I did when I was younger. I don’t entertain any dreams of being a sponsored racer but I can maintain my enthusiasm for the entire season. 

I tend to drop around ten pounds per summer then gain it back in winter. I ski and snowboard a lot and add some muscle mass from all the power movements. Then there’s the extra winter flab from all the apres ski eating and drinking. 

The most weight I’d ever lost was when I really got into trail running but running just hurts a lot and isn’t as fun for me as biking.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

TheBaldBlur said:


> I'm 10 yrs behind MSU ^^ but echo his experience exactly. I took longer to rebuild a base than I expected to but I'm steadily getting better/faster/stronger. After a couple years, I started keeping up with and then dropping riders I used to chase with my tongue dragging the ground. Like MSU, I don't follow a training program and only last year started using Strava just to keep up with miles. I just ride - sometime slow and pokey and sometimes hammering so hard I surprise myself - but if I'm not having fun, I'm doing it wrong. Gauging by the reactions of my riding buddies, whatever I'm doing is working.


I also record rides on Strava. Just to track my rides Vs. myself. Also last year, I rode more with my wife (who is not fast - and also went on easy rides with other slower riders) and remarkably got faster. I think I was riding too hard, too often, and the occasional easy (recovery) rides really helped my overall performance.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Ptor said:


> It seems to work for Ned Overend: https://www.velonews.com/2015/03/tr...verend-high-intensity-training-masters_362176
> 
> In the winter I do a lot of Nordic skate skiing -- talk about high intensity (for me at least)! So I have a couple a days of interval workouts on skis each week through the winter and feel ready to go hard once the road and trails melt.


The problem is that most of us aren't Ned Overend. He could ride once a week and absolutely crush most people...that wouldn't make riding once a week a winning combination for everyone.

The problem with Friel's book is that it's shaped by his experience as a lifelong competitive cyclist. People like that have already done the work to stimulate the changes necessary for high levels of endurance, so his concern is maintaining his high end power. A lot of people haven't done that, and need to do the work because a big top end with low endurance isn't very helpful for the typical cyclist.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

richde said:


> The problem is that most of us aren't Ned Overend. He could ride once a week and absolutely crush most people...that wouldn't make riding once a week a winning combination for everyone.


The same is true of comparing pretty much anybody's training. I had to change my riding pretty radically to keep going past mid 50s. Too much intensity just kills me.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

rruff said:


> The same is true of comparing pretty much anybody's training. I had to change my riding pretty radically to keep going past mid 50s. Too much intensity just kills me.


In the article, Ned says he has never done high volume or even normal volume relative to his level of competition. So apparently he is naturally gifted when it comes to endurance, and just works on the top end...because he can. Most of can't, because we aren't as naturally gifted.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Many years ago I went to the National Championship in Big Bear. Ned got a flat and lost a few minutes. The mishap seemed to enable him to find an extra gear and he went on to win. Must have been '94: http://watermanatwork.com/blog/1994-norba-nationals-video/


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

richde said:


> A lot of people haven't done that, and need to do the work because a big top end with low endurance isn't very helpful for the typical cyclist.


Enter, the ebike. Regardless of how anyone here feels about them, the above is why they're going to be so popular with the aged.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Slow at 66 here. But I'm not ready for the ebike.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Nat said:


> Enter, the ebike. Regardless of how anyone here feels about them, the above is why they're going to be so popular with the aged.


They're not my bag, but they do serve a purpose.

If someone is just an occasional rider, mountain biking will always be a struggle...so if you just want to get outside and would like your infrequent rides to be longer, go for it. More people would be happy with them than they'd like to admit.

I know if I could never get beyond an hour or two of moving time, I wouldn't find cycling as enjoyable as I do now.


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## BigKidOnBike (Oct 4, 2011)

+1 Friels book has been helpful/is encouraging me to use more of my limited time on short/hard efforts. My 55 yo body Is tolerating better than expected!


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