# How to make a northshore



## murilogomes (Nov 5, 2010)

I want to know How to make a northshore


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

murilogomes said:


> I want to know How to make a northshore


It helps to be divine. I'd think getting all that soil and water in the right place would be a bit tricky for us mortals.


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## brianhann (Mar 1, 2007)

I would say carving the earth away and providing a sea would be the hard part. Just my opinion.

Transplanting all those giant trees would be difficult also. Make sure your landmanager is on board with planet sculpting before you start!


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=61


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

murilogomes said:


> I want to know How to make a northshore


Please find another term to describe what it is you want to make. The North Shore is a place, not a thing. There are so many different types of trails and structures on the North Shore, it would be impossible for us to guess what you're referring to.

If you are referring to the North Shore in Hawaii, you need a volcano.

CBC trail Mt. Seymour, North Shore, Vancouver BC










Same trail, completely different structure.
View attachment 580045


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## Visicypher (Aug 5, 2004)

After a review, I see the OP is from a municipality in the state of Rio de Janeiro in southeastern Brazil. Maybe something was lost in translation???

Ninja is correct. Specifics about what you want to build would be best


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I haven't heard the term used that way in a while but a few years back there were a lot of people using "northshore" synonymously with "wooden structure". Especially outside of North America and usually on pinkbike. A lot of them weren't aware there was an actual place called The North Shore and a "North Shore Stunt" or "North Shore Ladder" was just describing typical structures you might find on North Shore trails. (Probably built by "Digger" Todd Fiander or "Danger" Dan Cowan)

Usually when someone in a forum used "northshore" to describe some plywood jump they built in their backyard, they'd quickly get shot down and have the whole thing explained to them.

Digger is probably the most famous mountain bike trail builder in the world. There's a nice little article about him here. http://www.nsmb.com/3529-digger-is-back

nsmb.com is probably the best place to get information on building North Shore style trails and structure. You'll get all kinds of ideas and instruction in the forum and in the photo gallery. Keep in mind that a lot of the structure on the North Shore was built to address the erosion problems caused by the almost complete disregard for what would be considered proper trail planning and design today.

You have to give credit to the hundreds of volunteers who have kept those trails usable for so many years under the worst of conditions. Heavy rains and snows, very steep terrain, masses of fall line trails and thousands of riders every week.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

esto ?


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

murilogomes said:


> I want to know How to make a northshore


looks like you are in a really nice part of brazil...

first step is to find a wood that is easy to cut and does not rot in your area.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

*My unpopular $0.02*

I agree that the term "Northshore" in reference to trail building is generally taken to mean elevated wooden structures.

It gets people excited about trail building which is, I think, a good thing.

I'm guessing the bad part initially comes after the first year when the relatively tiny amount of trail that was built gets compared to the many hours and many many $ spent to build it.

Then after about 5 years when the first structures start to fail due to wood rot and you have to start splitting your time between maintenance and new construction.

Meanwhile, the opportunity to build many times the initial amount of trail in beautiful, low maintenance dirt singletrack is squandered. Even building turnpikes to cross wet areas is less work than wood, when you factor in maintenance. (My rule of thumb is fewer than half the workers will show up to fix an existing problem than to build new trail. When your usual turnout is in single digits, this gets to be a problem.)

You can tell that I'm absolutely no fun at club meetings, can't you?

Walt


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Walt Dizzy said:


> I agree that the term "Northshore" in reference to trail building is generally taken to mean elevated wooden structures.
> 
> It gets people excited about trail building which is, I think, a good thing.
> 
> ...


You missed a tiny little corner of the wet blanket. I can sue you if I fall through your wooden ladder but not if I fall off your pile of rocks.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

Trail Ninja said:


> You missed a tiny little corner of the wet blanket. I can sue you if I fall through your wooden ladder but not if I fall off your pile of rocks.


Thanks for making my day!

Walt


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> You missed a tiny little corner of the wet blanket. I can sue you if I fall through your wooden ladder but not if I fall off your pile of rocks.


You can even sue when you file off his pile of rocks or even his pile of dirt. The (sarcastically) wonderful part of living in the States.

And Walt, sometimes building wood structures is quicker and more sustainable than building in dirt and rock. THE FUTURE OF TRAIL IS WOOOOOD!!!!!

Ray's indoor mountain bike park wouldn't have succeeded if just brought in a pile of dirt and spread it around. 

D


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

dburatti said:


> You can even sue when you file off his pile of rocks or even his pile of dirt. The (sarcastically) wonderful part of living in the States.
> 
> And Walt, sometimes building wood structures is quicker and more sustainable than building in dirt and rock. THE FUTURE OF TRAIL IS WOOOOOD!!!!!
> 
> ...


The local regional district government (British Columbia, Canada) seems to be OK with dirt & rocks no matter how sketchy it is. I'm not going to ask them why. They had me take out a well constructed cedar ladder over a 18" high log and were happy with the pile of loose rocks I replaced it with.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> The local regional district government (British Columbia, Canada) seems to be OK with dirt & rocks no matter how sketchy it is. I'm not going to ask them why. They had me take out a well constructed cedar ladder over a 18" high log and were happy with the pile of loose rocks I replaced it with.


Yep, as I hinted, litigation is almost a pastime here in the States. Walt is in Wisconsin. People seem to take responsibility for their actions in Canada; at least that's the impression I get from the difference between trail building here and there. For the record, i _have_ built trail in a few States and in BC for profit.

Dewayne


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

dburatti said:


> You can even sue when you file off his pile of rocks or even his pile of dirt. The (sarcastically) wonderful part of living in the States.
> 
> And Walt, sometimes building wood structures is quicker and more sustainable than building in dirt and rock. THE FUTURE OF TRAIL IS WOOOOOD!!!!!
> 
> ...


DeWayne, you are an all-around class individual and I respect your accomplishments.

But I'm a retrogrouch and building wood structures is my last resort. Wood is good, but stone is...LIKE A ROCK.

<Cue Bob Seger>

Walt


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

As long as you're aware of the limitations, wood can be a great material to build with. Teeters, hamster wheels, wall rides, Ewok villages, "shallow graves" (OK it could have been rock but wood was way cooler).

If I'm building trails to last forever with no maintenance, solid rock. If I want to use a little artistic license, or just show off, cedar. A trip through the nsmb.com trail building photo gallery is worth the time.

I love working with wood. There's nothing like the smell of fresh cut cedar or the sound of that "pop" when you're splitting rungs. I'd rather spend 8 hours building this than 8 hours with a rock bar and chain sling. The boards were milled but the rest was made with the tools shown. Including the wooden pegs. When it rots, there will be nothing left in the forest.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> As long as you're aware of the limitations, wood can be a great material to build with. Teeters, hamster wheels, wall rides, Ewok villages, "shallow graves" (OK it could have been rock but wood was way cooler).
> 
> If I'm building trails to last forever with no maintenance, solid rock. If I want to use a little artistic license, or just show off, cedar.


Very nice work with the wooden pegs. I'd love to spend a day or two working with you on stuff like that.

Another aspect of wood is that it doesn't require as much material to build certain things and is easier to transport. Say I want to build a table top or double jump. Pieces of wood can be more easily brought into the woods v. a loader full of dirt. The impact is much, much less.
Sure, it won't last as long as dirt, and once it's built it's difficult to change it. There are benefits and detriments (or less attractive aspects) to each method.

D


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

dburatti said:


> Very nice work with the wooden pegs. I'd love to spend a day or two working with you on stuff like that.


That would actually be pretty cool. You show me how to run a mini-ex & I'll show you how to build this with two hatchets and a hunting knife.

(Dan Cowan's work, not mine.)


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## Fullrange Drew (May 13, 2004)

Wow! 3 useful posts and 14 for pedants having a whinge about people referring to timber technical trail features as Northshore.

Get over it guys!

Is a ballpoint pen often referred to as a Biro?
A photocopier as a Xerox?
A motor scooter as a Vespa?

Yes.

And Ewok is often referred to as North Shore. Deal with it.

The rolleyes emoticon doesn't say nearly enough about you folks.

As to "how to build" that's a bit like asking "how do you build a house?"

Basics: 

There is no quick and long lasting solution. Either put in significant effort, or don't bother. Half baked timberwork is an accident waiting to happen.

Use wood that won't rot or you're wasting your time.

Never cut into or nail into living trees.

Use either timber pegs or galvanised screws/bolts for joints.

Use at least 2 fasteners per joint if you're using screws or pegs

Get the IMBA guidelines and stick to them.

If building something with liability attached, get permission from land manager or you may be putting trail access at risk. Talk to other trail fairies/custodians about your intended alignment before you build. (A high speed freeride track that crosses an XC track from the side can be a recipe for disaster).


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