# The switch to a full suspension?



## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm a couple years removed from being 50. I had a long hiatus(10+ years) from MTBing, and recently bought myself a hardtail with 140mm fork. Riding has been great, lots of fun!

I'm beginning to wonder how much easier is full suspension on the body than a hardtail? I've been going down black diamond on the Northshore (BC), without too much trouble. But the body does feel a little beat up at the end! Are there long-term effects of beating your body MTBing? I'm wondering about future hip, knee and ankle replacements! Hahaha


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

I’m about 16 years removed from age 50. I was riding rigid, put a front fork on. That was great, but I liked it so much that I bought a full-suspension EX8. That was a revelation. From a comfort standpoint it is light years beyond my rigid and much better for me than the hardtail. When I added a carbon fiber bar and Ergon grips, my wrists even stopped hurting. Rough trails on a rigid aren’t going to make your hips or knees fail any sooner, but your muscles and ligaments will certainly feel the strain and it will be even more painful if you already have some existing arthritis. If you hurt after an afternoon on all-mountain trails, full squish will change your life.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

A full suspension bike does aid with body comfort but more than anything I find it gives me more control and facilitates speed and traction. I say this having the Honzo well respected AM hardtail and a Remedy and modern Fuel EX.

If I slow it down or ride appropriately I'm not so beat up with the hardtail. The hardtail is super for pumping and some types of jumps, same for skinnies. The real answer is you want both, a fatty, and then something in touring/commuting/adventure realm. If you play it right the latter for the full suspension bike can also be your plus bike.

The formula is n+1 bikes so you have each niche covered _and_ two bikes for your favorite niche.

If you're having a hard time achieving n+1 get a spouse the same height who shares same or more love for riding.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Graveltattoo said:


> I'm beginning to wonder how much easier is full suspension on the body than a hardtail?


Much. The downside is that you tend to go faster on rough trails so crashing might be less likely but worse when it happens.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Graveltattoo said:


> I'm beginning to wonder how much easier is full suspension on the body than a hardtail?
> ...Are there long-term effects of beating your body MTBing? I'm wondering about future hip, knee and ankle replacements! Hahaha


The difference between a hardtail and a plush full suspension is huge, amazing, immeasurable, and...well, you get it. I'm not worried about long-term effects; the short term ones have been crippling me, lately(can't take impacts). So I went from a Canfield Yelli Screamy with 120mm fork to a Canfield Riot with 140mm front and back, and my little mountain biking world tilted on its axis. Immediately riding harder and faster on downhills and flowy stuff, not just pain free, but actually feeling better after riding and getting some exercise. Coming from riding singlespeed on a hardtail, I do feel like molasses flowing uphill in the wintertime while pedaling seated with a heavier bike in a 15 tooth bigger cog on climbs, but figure I'll get used to it soon enough. 
I can even do little jumps and drops that I normally avoid, as long as I don't ramp up the shock and make it too progressive(found out quick that having rear suspension doesn't mean I can just go bounding over and off of stuff-has to be squishy enough to absorb the impacts). For me, mountain biking has been "so much fun that it's worth the suffering", but now the only suffering is the burning in my legs:thumbsup:

Also agree with bitflogger about control, speed and traction. Rear wheel traction is much better with the same tire(I was shopping for a new rear before-don't feel the need, now). A pleasant surprise for me is that I'm even doing the real twisty stuff faster, which I suppose goes back to the increased traction and the confidence that brings with it.


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

The thing that annoyed me about my hardtail was that little "pop" of the rear wheel going over a root or rock after the front suspension soaked it up


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cuyuna said:


> The thing that annoyed me about my hardtail was that little "pop" of the rear wheel going over a root or rock after the front suspension soaked it up


I got bucked off, or almost bucked off my hard-tail many times. Don't get me wrong, I've been bucked off my full-sus too but it's harder to do. I need to do something_ really_ stupid on that bike!


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

It is so much easier on your body that you'd be silly not to get one. I have both a hard tail and a full, and I almost always take the full primarily because I am less beat up after riding it on the terrain where I live. And I'm only 38. The hard tail usually is reserved for mellow days on smoother single track or when I feel like punishing myself.


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## gpeden (Nov 17, 2014)

I have been biking for about 4 years now. A couple of years ago at age 63 I was reading a lot of these posts: "now that I am old at age 50 i find that full squish really helped with my back issues". I reasoned with my wife that although I do not have back issues, it might be worth reducing the chance of it happening. So she wasn't all that surprised when I walked in with my Thunderbolt FWIW, all I had to do is say" but honey it is BLUE!", and we were good 

And yeah, what'dya know - indeed I was less fatigued, achey after riding the full squish.

Glen


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

I was afraid that a full suspension is easier on the body! That's going to cost me more $$$ now! I don't have the luxury of buying a brand new bike, or have 2 bikes. I have a Honzo 29er, so maybe the best option is to get a full suspension frame and switch everything over.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

bitflogger said:


> A full suspension bike does aid with body comfort but more than anything I find it gives me more control and facilitates speed and traction....


And the corollary is when you have an accident, it happens at higher speeds with the probability of more severe injuries and longer recovery times...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Graveltattoo said:


> so maybe the best option is to get a full suspension frame and switch everything over.


It is one way to go but it's unlikely to work out cheaper than buying another bike and selling the Honzo. This is a good time of year to buy bikes, end of the season, buyer's market. Bargains to be had.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Graveltattoo said:


> I was afraid that a full suspension is easier on the body! That's going to cost me more $$$ now! I don't have the luxury of buying a brand new bike, or have 2 bikes. I have a Honzo 29er, so maybe the best option is to get a full suspension frame and switch everything over.


I would hate to give up a Honzo. Especially a steel one.

A full suspension bike is a consumable by comparison.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

bitflogger said:


> I would hate to give up a Honzo. Especially a steel one.


Yeah, everyone should have two bikes, at least! I don't regret keeping my hardtail.

Just save up, rob a tramp, beg to the wife, sell the wife! ;0)


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

bitflogger said:


> ...A full suspension bike is a consumable by comparison.


As you get older, your realize your body is as well.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> As you get older, your realize your body is as well.


:0( True. You start to wonder how many years cycling you have left...


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

Well, I'll just weigh in here, as someone who recently returned to mountain biking after around seven or eight years off. I'm 56 and this July I wanted to get back into biking so I bought a Norco hardtail Charger 9.1. Not a bad bike - 1x11 (SRAM NX), hydraulic brakes (again SRAM) and of course a Rock Shox Recon Gold, with 29 inch wheels. Nothing spectacular, but a nice enough bike, and I liked it fine. 

I lasted three months before I yielded to temptation and bought a full suspension bike (the Trek 2017 Fuel EX 9.8 29er I've posted about elsewhere). While I'm hoping to keep the Charger as a second bike, really, I appreciate the full suspension much more. Mind you, it's a better bike in almost every way, so there's that! 

I don't launch off five or six foot drops like I used to, and I'm definitely slower, so the 130 on the front and back of the Fuel is fine. Plus the 2017 got good reviews. Bottom line is that I like the control and plusher ride of a full suspension bike, and Trek climbs well enough for me...


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

bitflogger said:


> I would hate to give up a Honzo. Especially a steel one.
> 
> A full suspension bike is a consumable by comparison.


\

It is steel Honzo! Very nice bike indeed, but not at the expensive of trashing my body! Bikes can be replaced......my body ....not so much!!


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Mr Pig said:


> :0( True. You start to wonder how many years cycling you have left...


It's always 20.

Better to be disappointed than hit the couch too soon.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

bjeast said:


> Well, I'll just weigh in here, as someone who recently returned to mountain biking after around seven or eight years off. I'm 56 and this July I wanted to get back into biking so I bought a Norco hardtail Charger 9.1. Not a bad bike - 1x11 (SRAM NX), hydraulic brakes (again SRAM) and of course a Rock Shox Recon Gold, with 29 inch wheels. Nothing spectacular, but a nice enough bike, and I liked it fine.
> 
> I lasted three months before I yielded to temptation and bought a full suspension bike (the Trek 2017 Fuel EX 9.8 29er I've posted about elsewhere). While I'm hoping to keep the Charger as a second bike, really, I appreciate the full suspension much more. Mind you, it's a better bike in almost every way, so there's that!
> 
> I don't launch off five or six foot drops like I used to, and I'm definitely slower, so the 130 on the front and back of the Fuel is fine. Plus the 2017 got good reviews. Bottom line is that I like the control and plusher ride of a full suspension bike, and Trek climbs well enough for me...


The '17 and '18 Fuel EX are extraordinary and can't be confused with past models. A Honzo owner should love them.

bjeast, consider upping your fork to 140 mm.


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks for the advice - I will do that. But not this year. I want to stay married!


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

bjeast said:


> Thanks for the advice - I will do that. But not this year. I want to stay married!


No, that's just keeping up. The secret to bikes is a same height wife who loves to ride.


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

Heh. Yeah, unfortunately neither of those conditions exist....


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## Kev711 (Jul 31, 2017)

bitflogger said:


> No, that's just keeping up. The secret to bikes is a same height wife who loves to ride.


I'm 5'5 and the wife is 4'9! I got her a great little 24in ht......it's fun to mess around on!


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

Velobike said:


> It's always 20.
> 
> Better to be disappointed than hit the couch too soon.


"Word"

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I am new at being 60.
I started mountain/fat biking 13 months ago.
Go invest in a bike, i want to be your friend and it is obvious you are looking to justify it.
I enjoy climbing, going down i tend to slow down.
Without a car i ride 20-35 min. to the trails and back so i have 2 hardtails.
Recently at a demo i tried a plus and 2 full, i enjoyed them all because i did not need to put a foot down.
So your needs, your preferences.
Some have a Q personality that focuses on Quantity going fast get a fullsuspension if it is you and a fullface.
Some have a Q personality that focuses on Quality not numbers different answer.
You crash hard? often? log your numbers?
My life is a marathon to pedal the next 40 years, your s?


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm 54 and have been riding for 2 years. Mainly technical single track with rocks, roots, climbs, etc.. Started with an older Cannondale Rigid I got for free from a family friend. Pretty soon after I realized this wasn't a fad I bought a new Trek X-Caliber. That lasted less than 1 season before I moved to a used Fuel EX-9 with 26" tires. I recently upgraded to a 2017 Fuel EX-8 27.5 plus. I can't imagine going back to a anything but my FS bike after riding it. Definitely beats me up less.


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

I just turned 55 and resumed riding ~5 years ago after taking ~10 yrs off. When I got back into riding my old Gary Fisher 26 rigid was dated, so I bought a used 29er HT to see if I would commit to riding again or if I was kidding myself. Long story short - I bought a 27.5 Plus full suspension this past spring and love it. It's my only ride now. Right after I brought it I rode the same training loop near my home that's fairly technical. I rode it on my HT and then my FS back to back. The HT went up for sale the same day because I knew I'd never ride it again. 

Is the FS easier on my body? Yes. Do I ride faster on it? Yes, but is it because I feel more comfortable pushing the FS through tech than the HT or because I'm in better shape now? Again, Yes / both. I don't regret the HT, I bought it used and sold it for what I paid for it. It served it's purpose.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

TheBaldBlur said:


> I just turned 55 and resumed riding ~5 years ago after taking ~10 yrs off.


I am fifty and like the idea of taking ten-years off. Taking off thirty years would be even better.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

TheBaldBlur said:


> Right after I brought it I rode the same training loop near my home that's fairly technical. I rode it on my HT and then my FS back to back. The HT went up for sale the same day because I knew I'd never ride it again.


Man, yes. 
Got parts in a week or so ago to replace the ones I'd scavenged to use on my new Riot, and rebuilt the SS hardtail after 3 FS rides. I was feeling it just from playing around popping off stuff for a few minutes outside my house. I've loved that Yelli Screamy, and been blown away by it, since a few minutes after finishing the initial build. I feel like it totally transformed my riding(almost weekly PRs, and increasingly aggressive over rough terrain for the past 8 months), and made mountain biking the mega-fun adventure that it should be, but it got stripped back down to the frame the next day. No regrets here, either, but I can't take the kind of riding it makes me want to do without rear suspension.


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

The general consensus I get from the feedback so far is, that a full suspension is easier on the body(Not factoring the increased speed and the potential for harder crashes).

I want to enjoy mtbing as long as possible, so using the best equipment to achieve that, is the goal! I wish I was still bulletproof.......but those days are long gone! I could just have a pint of concrete and harden the @#* up, but riding pain free would be more enjoyable!


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

For what it's worth, I took my hardtail out today, and it was fun. The trails I went on were really easy trails to ride, so I can't speak to what it was like to ride a bunch of roots, drops and bigger rocks. That said, I definitely notice all the little bumps more. If this were all I rode, I probably wouldn't bother with a full suspension bike. But on anything more, man I really appreciate the full suspension on my Trek Fuel. If I do sell one, the hardtail is out the door!


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I turned 50 three weeks ago and celebrated by ordering my first new full suspension bike, a 2017 Evil "The Following" that was on closeout. I'm still going to keep my Jones Plus SS though!


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## sheatrock (Jul 23, 2009)

SeaBass_ said:


> I turned 50 three weeks ago and celebrated by ordering my first new full suspension bike, a 2017 Evil "The Following" that was on closeout. I'm still going to keep my Jones Plus SS though!


That is a sweet bjke you are getting, The geometry, handling of the new bikes was an eye-opener for me. I'm 59 and recently got a Pivot switchblade and i'm loving it.


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm looking at the Norco Sight A9.2 and Rocky Mountain Instinct Alloy 50. I can get a pretty good deal on either one through a connection, better discount on the Norco. The color for the RM Instinct is hideous IMHO! Most likely will get the Norco Sight.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Full suspension bikes are not only easier on your body, they are way more fun!  I can ride faster and much better on my dually. In fact I doubt I could ride my local trails at anything above a walking pace on the HT.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Skooks said:


> Full suspension bikes are not only easier on your body, they are way more fun!


I don't agree. Yeah sure, I agree that you can go faster and it's easier but riding the same trail on a hard-tail you feel more connected to the trail and you_ feel_ like you're going faster and living more on the edge. I find a hard-tail more exiting by a long way.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Depends on where and what you ride I guess. I spent years riding fully rigid and HT bikes before full suspension was invented. Would not go back. There are a few people riding hard tails around here, but I sure wouldn't want to. It would be exciting for sure, but not in a good way!


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> I don't agree. Yeah sure, I agree that you can go faster and it's easier but riding the same trail on a hard-tail you feel more connected to the trail and you_ feel_ like you're going faster and living more on the edge. I find a hard-tail more exiting by a long way.


Having ridden rigid, hardtails and now full-suspension bikes on our moderately technical single track, I certainly understand and agree with your observation. Hardtails were exciting. The thing is...people's expectations for their single track experience vary, and even evolves over time. I loved riding a rigid on those trails back then. Now, I love full suspension even more and would never go back.


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## always_last (Jun 7, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> I don't agree. Yeah sure, I agree that you can go faster and it's easier but riding the same trail on a hard-tail you feel more connected to the trail and you_ feel_ like you're going faster and living more on the edge. I find a hard-tail more exiting by a long way.


+1
I just turned 50 and I still ride a hardtail with no plans of switching in the near future, but of course that depends so much on where and how you ride. I'm in central Ohio now (moved from Philly last year) and the trails here are so mellow I'm surprised by how many FS bikes I see. I just don't see the need- the trails are fairly flat and not very rocky, though there are a lot of roots. Yeah, maybe I would be a bit faster on some of the "downhills" but as others have said, more speed can equal big mistakes.

As for how I feel at the end of a ride, I would not call it beat up, more like fully worked out. Like I just rode and went to the gym. Riding a hardtail for me just means using more of your body. I probably spend 10-20% of my ride out of the saddle and use my legs and arms to constantly work the bike and soak up the bumps. Again, maybe that doesn't make me the fastest, but I rarely get dropped. And I can do a good 25 mile ride at the hilliest, rockiest trails around here and be back on the trails the next day.

Maybe in another 10-15 years I'll change my mind but for now I feel my hardtail is not holding me back.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I love hard tails, although I don't currently have one. You are definitely not more connected to the trail if it's chunky, as the rear end is rebounding off hits where good suspension will keep the tire glued.


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## Yalerider (Feb 14, 2017)

I started last spring on a hardtail and soon after bought a FS. I don't ride hartail much anymore except on smooth trails. The chunky stuff here in PNW is much funner on my FS and 58 YO body,.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

Travis Bickle said:


> I love hard tails, although I don't currently have one. You are definitely not more connected to the trail if it's chunky, as the rear end is rebounding off hits where good suspension will keep the tire glued.


agreed maybe not glued but much much more connected. easier on the body overall and I will not be looking back as the technology is worth riding a FS. especially where you are riding and living a bucket list destination for most of us. while i do enjoy my hardtail my I still own one and ride it and for shame its a 26 oh for shame My FS is my go to bike. And I would suggest a dropper as well


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I didn't say that you are more connected to the trail on a hard-tail, I said you _feel _more connected. Big difference.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> I didn't say that you are more connected to the trail on a hard-tail, I said you _feel _more connected. Big difference.


Yup, where i ride the challenges are not that many and i enjoy the rear wheel loosing contact shortly, maybe not the full speed downhill of the full suspension, but if i crash, i prefer less speed, just my choice


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Graveltattoo said:


> I'm a couple years removed from being 50. I had a long hiatus(10+ years) from MTBing, and recently bought myself a hardtail with 140mm fork. Riding has been great, lots of fun!


Hardtails kick ass.  They're like rocket ships--they're light, and every ounce of power goes to the wheels.

When I had my last hardtail, one bike had to go. The decision of which bike to dump was between a F/S XC bike and the hardtail. One day I was riding the hardtail fast over some mildly rugged stuff. I realized it was kinda like riding a washing machine full of rocks on spin cycle. It was then that I decided that F/S was a better overall experience for me.

If your worried about wearing out your body, don't be fat, and work on proper stretching and strengthening of ALL your body parts. Cyclists get a very limited workout. We're in one position for extended periods, and we only work a few muscle groups. That means other areas of our bodies get neglected, weak, and suffer decreased range of motion.


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

I have ridden both and my old self prefers a FS. Not only are the bumps less jarring, you can sit and pedal right over stuff you need to unweight or hop on a hardtail. So that saves wear and tear also.
You can set them up to hop or unweight well when you want to as well.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

I'll own a full squish again, But for now at almost 59 I am still happy on my Hard Tail Plus Bike.

If I was to pick one single thing that I lost and missed when I moved to a full suspension and was Instantly aware of as I got back on a hard tail It would be......

Instant reaction to my Inputs, all of them.


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

RustyIron said:


> Hardtails kick ass. They're like rocket ships--they're light, and every ounce of power goes to the wheels.
> 
> When I had my last hardtail, one bike had to go. The decision of which bike to dump was between a F/S XC bike and the hardtail. One day I was riding the hardtail fast over some mildly rugged stuff. I realized it was kinda like riding a washing machine full of rocks on spin cycle. It was then that I decided that F/S was a better overall experience for me.
> 
> If your worried about wearing out your body, don't be fat, and work on proper stretching and strengthening of ALL your body parts. Cyclists get a very limited workout. We're in one position for extended periods, and we only work a few muscle groups. That means other areas of our bodies get neglected, weak, and suffer decreased range of motion.


Hahahaha......"Don't be fat".......I miss a meal and I lose 5lbs!!! I do tons of stretching and do more workouts than cardio.

I have alot of wear and tear on the body, I had a lot of fun in my youth and continue to do.......but the body is starting to protest!


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## mypupdaisy (Jun 20, 2017)

@Graveltattoo; I'm 55 and moving to my first FS. I'm a bit confused as to what I should select as a bike. There are so many opinions and thoughts. Different tire sizes, SRAM, Shamano, types of brakes, types of tires, dropper post or not, etc. I've read allot and have an idea what is better than the other, but not really sure how much of that will matter. I expect to fall, but don't plan to be doing 30mph when it happens. I'm more of a slow trails type person. Some speed is fun, but healing bones at this age takes a lot of time.

My Wife has always been my riding partner and really loves bikes on/off the road. Sadly her knee has to be replaced and the Dr. said even after the replacement, bikes will always be a no-no for her from now on. I will be solo on the trail... so will keep the speed down.

I've been riding a Fisher HT for the past 15 years. Retired and want to ride trails... need to finally just pull the lever.

Thanks for listening.


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

mypupdaisy said:


> My Wife has always been my riding partner and really loves bikes on/off the road. Sadly her knee has to be replaced and the Dr. said even after the replacement, bikes will always be a no-no for her from now on. I will be solo on the trail... so will keep the speed down.


Has to be more to it than that. A simple knee replacement certainly doesn't keep a person from mountain biking, or any kind of biking for that matter.


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## mypupdaisy (Jun 20, 2017)

For her privacy, I just didn’t see any reason to go into more detail. She just won’t be peddling anymore.


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

mypupdaisy said:


> There are so many opinions and thoughts. Different tire sizes, SRAM, Shamano, types of brakes, types of tires, dropper post or not, etc


Most of the details aren't so important, like SRAM vs Shimano (both good). Disc brakes are what nearly all bikes have these days, they are great. Droppers are great and I'd get a bike with one on it if you can.
I'd do some research into prices and decide what you want to spend. A good start would be what most people call "Trail Bikes". These should have a moderate amount of travel by today's standards (a ton of travel compared to bikes of yesteryear) and should climb and descend well. An "XC" type would be lighter with less travel, good if you are light and your trails aren't too bumpy. Enduro bikes are sort of like junior downhill bikes that climb adequately.
Personally I think a good frame that fits, and the suspension are the things I don't want to skimp on. If you're bigger than the average cyclist like me that means stout durable frame and fork. Parts here and there can be swapped out or adjusted. If you can't get the suspension working properly it's worse.
Try some out if you have a good local shop! These modern bikes are pretty awesome, good luck and have fun


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## mypupdaisy (Jun 20, 2017)

Have the chance of a carbon Pivot with all XTR components but 26” wheels for $1k or a Salsa Horsethief with 29” wheels and X0 components for $830. They both look new. Both about 4 years old. 

I know now both people through friends. Both bikes have been cared for well. 

The Pivot looks so sexy... but not sure about those 26”wheels. Someone said you can upgrade it to 27”, but would have to replace the front fork at some serious $$. 

Thoughts?


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

Seems like both good prices if they are in good condition. Looks like the current horsethief is a light trail bike with 120mm of travel but I am not familiar with them 4 years ago. Things are changing a lot lately I have come to find out.
Pivots are very popular on the internet but 26" wheels are a tough call. Good price ... Pivot.... 26 inches :madman:


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

26 in wheels are fine and you will be able to find parts and rims for them for years to come. Those are both great deals. Is the horsethief carbon or alu? If alu, it'd be tough to beat the deal on that pivot.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

mypupdaisy said:


> Have the chance of a carbon Pivot with all XTR components but 26" wheels for $1k or a Salsa Horsethief with 29" wheels and X0 components for $830. They both look new. Both about 4 years old.
> 
> I know now both people through friends. Both bikes have been cared for well.
> 
> ...


Fancy parts are always diminishing returns. Parts wear out and break. Are you pretty small frame person? My value system would not take fancy parts and have heirloom wheels unless after a dirt jumper, pump track bike or commuter.

I wouldn't get a bike just because it was plastic instead of recycled beer cans.

Again, my value system but I suggest getting what handles and performs best. Get the bike that makes you feel confident and comfy.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Not old like you peeps (only 49  ) but young at heart. Full squish all the way really helps to keep the body young and keeps one fresh for those all day adventures as well.


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## mypupdaisy (Jun 20, 2017)

I bought a Pivot Firebird XX1 26er. It looks perfect. Very few scuff marks at all. There is a guy locally here who is stationed at my local AFB who has the same bike and put 650b's on his. He said it fit fine. He has provided for me the wheel/tire combination that fit. I will ride it for a while and get a good feel for it and watch for the wheels on eBay. Then convert it out. Can't beat the price. $1k

Pics here:
https://tinyurl.com/yaf9869e


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I'm with the overwhelming majority here...

My XC HT hardly gets used and when it is used it's more a gravel bike ... 
The FS is comfier and my old bones and muscles take less of a beating.

Its more fun ... partly geometry as the XC is fairly full-on XC but I hop and jump about a lot more. Part of that is not feeling beat-up when you do get the opportunity.

Truth be known I went for a alu framed FS .. love the geometry but if I'd known how much I was going to love it I'd have saved the extra for a carbon frame.

One HUGE thing I found with my bad joints is crank length is CRITICAL to me now. 
I'm 5'10" but a couple of hours on 175mm cranks kills me... back and hips are out for a week. 170mm and I'm fine...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

mypupdaisy said:


> I bought a Pivot Firebird XX1 26er.


Nice bike.


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## Xd9biker (Dec 16, 2017)

I’m hoping to return and trying to decide what to get, and i’m totally at sea as stuff has changed so much in the 25 years since I last rode. I’m really looking hard at both a Fathom 1 and the Trance 2 or 1... I last rode rigid and v brakes, so what’s out here now is a revelation. Of my friends who ride, half say go FS and the other half say Hardtail....thanks guys, not helping here!


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Xd9biker said:


> I'm hoping to return and trying to decide what to get, and i'm totally at sea as stuff has changed so much in the 25 years since I last rode. I'm really looking hard at both a Fathom 1 and the Trance 2 or 1... I last rode rigid and v brakes, so what's out here now is a revelation. Of my friends who ride, half say go FS and the other half say Hardtail....thanks guys, not helping here!


What sort of trails are you riding? I don't know anything about the Fathom but the Trance is a very nice bike that will handle a lot of different riding conditions.


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## Xd9biker (Dec 16, 2017)

Skooks said:


> What sort of trails are you riding? I don't know anything about the Fathom but the Trance is a very nice bike that will handle a lot of different riding conditions.


Lots of roots and trees. Depending where I am some climbing but compared to a lot of areas it's small hills and descents. I like the idea of starting on a hard tail again to see if I'm going to fall back in love, with the thought of adding a FS later, but I'm also out so shape and heavy, and wonder if the fs will be kinder and let me enjoy it more


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## dcr1 (Nov 3, 2017)

After 15 years of riding a hardtail, I finally switched to a FS. It is so much more comfortable. My buddy who is 59 just switched too. He was worried about climbing, but his new Trance Advance does great on the climbs. I was talking to a MTN bike coach who was in his late 40s and had been riding for 25 years. He said if he could only have one bike, it would be a FS. I now feel the same. Although, I would still like to have a second hardtail bike. I just worry how much I would ride it.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

Xd9biker said:


> Lots of roots and trees. Depending where I am some climbing but compared to a lot of areas it's small hills and descents. I like the idea of starting on a hard tail again to see if I'm going to fall back in love, with the thought of adding a FS later, but I'm also out so shape and heavy, and wonder if the fs will be kinder and let me enjoy it more


You may not "fall back in love" if you don't have any fun. I started on a hardtail and realized pretty quickly that I would have bought the right bike if I was half my age. Get the FS with a shock that can be locked out. I have 150mm of travel fork and shock, and am having more fun on my rooty and rocky trails than I ever could have on a HT. AT 55, too much suspension is just enough!


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

IMHO, the FS will be **a lot** more fun to ride. You are going to be a lot more motivated to get out riding if you really enjoy your bike. Just get the Trance and hit the trails!


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

Xd9biker said:


> Lots of roots and trees. Depending where I am some climbing but compared to a lot of areas it's small hills and descents. I like the idea of starting on a hard tail again to see if I'm going to fall back in love, with the thought of adding a FS later, but I'm also out so shape and heavy, and wonder if the fs will be kinder and let me enjoy it more


I went your root of going with a hardtail to see if I'd get back into the sport, in hind sight I wish I would've skipped the hardtail and just bought a FS! I don't feel old, but when I'm riding downhill I feel like a 20 yr old, so much fun!!!!!

I demo'd a Norco Sight and Range, I couldn't believe how much better the ride was.....WOW! Absolutely zero pain, felt fantastic after the ride.It was WAY MORE FUN on a FS.

My dilemma is whether to get the Sight 140/130mm - 67° Head angle or the Range 160/150mm - 65.5 HA. My logic keeps jumping back and forth.....


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## Xd9biker (Dec 16, 2017)

Graveltattoo said:


> I went your root of going with a hardtail to see if I'd get back into the sport, in hind sight I wish I would've skipped the hardtail and just bought a FS! I don't feel old, but when I'm riding downhill I feel like a 20 yr old, so much fun!!!!!
> 
> I demo'd a Norco Sight and Range, I couldn't believe how much better the ride was.....WOW! Absolutely zero pain, felt fantastic after the ride.It was WAY MORE FUN on a FS.
> 
> My dilemma is whether to get the Sight 140/130mm - 67° Head angle or the Range 160/150mm - 65.5 HA. My logic keeps jumping back and forth.....


I take it the steeper angle would be quicker on the steering? Where I am i'd Probably not need the extra range, and the slacker angle would probably be more relaxing for me to learn with again, but for you? Thanks for the good advice,


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Both of these are great bikes. Which one to get depends on your riding preferences. If you value climbing efficiency over downhill capabilities, get the sight. If you are prepared to work a bit harder and have a More confident descent then the range is the obvious choice. Wheel size is a harder decision!


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

Skooks said:


> Both of these are great bikes. Which one to get depends on your riding preferences. If you value climbing efficiency over downhill capabilities, get the sight. If you are prepared to work a bit harder and have a More confident descent then the range is the obvious choice. Wheel size is a harder decision!


Wheel size is easy......29er! But I'm a taller rider. With me riding the North Shore I've been advised by many locals to get the Range, due to it being a bit more burlier. I'm looking at the A9.1 in both models, for an extra $200 the Range comes with a better fork, shock, rims and brakes. I guess I'll just get a better work out climbing!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bitflogger said:


> I would hate to give up a Honzo. Especially a steel one.
> 
> A full suspension bike is a consumable by comparison.


Unless you get a full suspension Honzo 

Full suspension climbs better, descends better, and is more comfortable ride.

The only question you'll have after getting an fs bike is is why you waited so long.

I have a hard tail fat bike with a 140mm travel fork, it's a fun bike but no where near as fun as my fs bike; I ride them both.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Xd9biker said:


> Lots of roots and trees. Depending where I am some climbing but compared to a lot of areas it's small hills and descents. I like the idea of starting on a hard tail again to see if I'm going to fall back in love, with the thought of adding a FS later, but I'm also out so shape and heavy, and wonder if the fs will be kinder and let me enjoy it more


Doing this again I'd go straight for the FS 
Even though it's heavier I feel a lot less tired in my joints and have more fun.

I'd really no idea I'd ever try most of the stuff I do weekly now... and even when I've done weekends with big climbs I've taken the FS

I ride with an active and younger XC racing friend who rides a short travel (100mm) FS and don't really struggle to keep up when he takes it easy and he really struggles on the downhills when I take it easy... he has now decided a. I'd travel FS is his next bike.


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## Xd9biker (Dec 16, 2017)

Ok you guys have talked me into fs. Now anthem or trance ?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Xd9biker said:


> Ok you guys have talked me into fs. Now anthem or trance ?


If it's between those you could do worse than check out Clint Gibbs you tube channel.

I'd be going for the trance unless you want to race XC


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## Xd9biker (Dec 16, 2017)

Not racing.....unless they have paramedics with a defibrillator unit chasing me in a helicopter!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Xd9biker said:


> Not racing.....unless they have paramedics with a defibrillator unit chasing me in a helicopter!


I know how you feel... I ride with a younger friend who races and I mostly keep up at least to the point he's not wanting to ride with someone else. He's always trying to get me to enter a race and although I'm way way fitter than say 3 yrs ago I can see me needing resuss and crash trolley if I did.

I'm happy being comfortable and no joint issues and where I might need stop while my heart gets in a reasonable zone!


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Velobike said:


> And the corollary is when you have an accident, it happens at higher speeds with the probability of more severe injuries and longer recovery times...


i put myself out of action for almost four months due to a fall at zero mph from my brand new dualie...

just sayin'...:eekster:


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

1 bike = full suspension. Get a bike that will improve your weak point. I'm on Vancouver Island, and have not been to the shore to ride. A newb needs all the help they can get going down steep, crazy ****. The Trance is a middle of the road, that is neither too xc race or DHy. I've been mtbing 30 years, and have recently started to struggle with tech climbing. The kind of stuff that I can fall off to the side, and keep going Ripping down hill at speed doesn't worry me at all, but climbing has me pretty freaked out at times. I have a great all round bike, that will climb like a goat on meth. My next bike will climb at least as well but can't give up anything going down. I will take up xc racing when hell freezes over.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Being 60 YO, new to fat/mountain biking it is not clear to me what are the differences ???
Enduro = ?
All Mountain = ?
Trail Riding = ?
I think for downhill and XC i have the idea.
This is an interesting thread, i have a fat and hardtail but i am trying to learn even if i think for where i ride a FS is not needed.
Thanks


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Velobike said:


> And the corollary is when you have an accident, it happens at higher speeds with the probability of more severe injuries and longer recovery times...


Just started looking at this thread. First time in this forum. (I'm 48 and recovering from an ACL knee surgery. Can I still participate please?) Your comment and the earlier one by @MrPig seriously concern me.

How do we reconcile the increased danger of being able to ride faster and more technical on FS? Was this already covered and I haven't read it yet?


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

This last weekend I had to ride my hard tail Norco 9.1 Charger 29er, since my FS Trek Fuel was in the shop. I can completely respect those of you who like your hard tails. But man, I really missed my full suspension bike. After five weeks on the Trek, I realized how spoiled I am. I have very bad knees and even on a small drop I could really feel the difference in one of my knees. And I have to say that overall I just didn't feel as confident as I did on my Trek. 

Of course, the Trek is a better bike in every single way (though the Norco isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination), but still, I was left thinking that I really would much rather ride a full suspension bike. I'm selling the hardtail!


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> How do we reconcile the increased danger of being able to ride faster and more technical on FS? Was this already covered and I haven't read it yet?


Being able to doesn't mean you have to. 
Hopefully I'm safe from jinxing myself, since I'm off the bike with a back episode and may be for awhile yet, but...I haven't wrecked since going FS. Not once. The bike stays glued to the ground and recovers so much better that I've thought "oh, this is it" several times, but it hasn't happened. I'm not riding a lot faster on downhills, though; it's just taking a lot less of a toll on my body. I have brakes, and am not afraid to use them!

What's going to eventually get me is blasting through twisty stuff with lots of rocks, roots and small obstacles that I would wind through at lower speed before. There's nothing great about my riding in general, but I feel almost youtube-worthy on a couple such sections, and it's a big high being able to ride them so fast now. A big high until I wind up wrapped around a tree, anyway...


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"A big high until I wind up wrapped around a tree, anyway..."

been there, done that...at NO speed...


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I used to feel my HT was great because I could always ride on the edge. FS let's me go over the edge too easy I think, then it's hard to get back to safety if that makes any sense. Like if there is a long downhill straightaway, and then a corner at the bottom... The HT kind of lets me know if I'm going to fast, whereas the FS sends me in way over skill speed because its muting the real trail feedback. But I hear your point. I have brakes, I should use them better.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Just started looking at this thread. First time in this forum. (I'm 48 and recovering from an ACL knee surgery. Can I still participate please?) Your comment and the earlier one by @MrPig seriously concern me.
> 
> How do we reconcile the increased danger of being able to ride faster and more technical on FS? Was this already covered and I haven't read it yet?


No one is forcing you and at 48 you seem to have developed a good sense of preservation.

Brakes work better ... certainly more predicatably

Of course off road biking can't be risk free but at our age most bad crashes are down to something unexpected more than just being plain stupid... you won't necessarily be going faster but able to take different lines or ride it out when the unexpected happens.

In retrospect I think I can say that I had far more close calls on my twitchy XC HT than on my trail FS, even though I ride far more gnarly trails on the FS. Certainly on the XC HT air was something to minimise as the smallest thing would upset it whereas on the trail oriented FS the bike is so much more composed and its less about hanging on than even trying to look stylish....

I know one fast run I do often as its close to home... it used to scare the living daylights out of me on the XC bike... it has a couple of jumps on bends with trees etc. and its hard to do at any speed without some air but I'd go down and hang on... whereas now I don't necessarily go much faster but I'm completely in control.


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## cairnmtb (Dec 18, 2017)

I turn 50 in April.
I spent a bit over a week around the Thanksgiving holiday in Moab and Sedona. Phenomenal riding opportunities and variety (particularly Sedona). I was there on my rigid SS, having a blast with my 13 year old son who is an experienced rider/racer himself.
Two points to this post:
1. While on a ride in Sedona saw an older guy on his Niner SS. I say older because of the FULL white beard and general "leatheriness", but he was very fit and was riding SS. I remarked to myself and son how badass that was. 
2. Halfway through my time in Sedona, I realized that I needed to start considering a suspension fork. By the time the trip was over, a FS bike, for the first time ever was something I was asking about.
I'm treating this thread as my confessional, but I fear that I'll attempt one NUE race on my rigid SS and will be crying for FS geared. I'm feeling the miles more than the years.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Reconcile what? Why would you be seriously concerned?

Why do you ride a mountain bike? If you're more interested in scenery or simply like riding in a car free environment, then ride gravel or double track. If you are worried about crashing, then wear protection and ride cautiously.

I can't count the injuries I've had over the years. I'm older than you and I expect more injuries in my future.

If you are that concerned about being injured riding a bike on trails, then switch to road bikes or get into hiking.

When I ride, it's for thrills and fitness, so I seek out climbs that have downhills where I can get air and ride fast.

I appreciate the advances in mountain biking specifically because they allow me to go faster and go bigger with more control... and more safety.



Wish I Were Riding said:


> Just started looking at this thread. First time in this forum. (I'm 48 and recovering from an ACL knee surgery. Can I still participate please?) Your comment and the earlier one by @MrPig seriously concern me.
> 
> How do we reconcile the increased danger of being able to ride faster and more technical on FS? Was this already covered and I haven't read it yet?


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## BikePilot1 (May 15, 2006)

I find full suspension much easier on the joints. I have rheumatoid arthritis and my knees and wrists tend to suffer on hard and rigid bikes. Taking away the sharp impacts makes a huge difference in my ability to ride.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Reconcile what? Why would you be seriously concerned?
> 
> Why do you ride a mountain bike? If you're more interested in scenery or simply like riding in a car free environment, then ride gravel or double track. If you are worried about crashing, then wear protection and ride cautiously.
> 
> ...


A little overly harsh and dismissive, but I hear you. If you ever come to the SF Bay in California, let's go for a tough ride and be friends okay? :thumbsup: At least once my ACL rehab is done.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> A little overly harsh and dismissive, but I hear you. If you ever come to the SF Bay in California, let's go for a tough ride and be friends okay? :thumbsup: At least once my ACL rehab is done.


i have to agree with you about overly harsh and dismissive.

i'm recovering from an injury--a dislocated shoulder. i'm finding having five inches of travel in the front is helping isolate my right shoulder from big bumps although successive hits are still somewhat uncomfortable.

nurse ben, not everybody rides like you and some of us have to be more careful than others because injuries mean time off work, and time off work means not much money and so on.

just sayin'.

a little bit of civility goes a long way.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

My riding group is split about 50/50 between those who have been out with injuries, and those who haven't. Sometimes it just happens, but often it's because of personality, type A personality. Me, I will push as hard as trail, mental, and physical conditions allow. As a result my riding is inconsistent, but I don't miss rides because I'm busted up.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Travis Bickle said:


> My riding group is split about 50/50 between those who have been out with injuries, and those who haven't. Sometimes it just happens, but often it's because of personality, type A personality. Me, I will push as hard as trail, mental, and physical conditions allow. As a result my riding is inconsistent, but I don't miss rides because I'm busted up.


i like to think we all find how close to the edge we're comfortable with.

did that make sense?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I've finally made the jump to full suspension AND gears.
The last 5 years have been single speed exclusively and mostly rigid.
Now there's a 2012 Anthem in the stable and I've decided it's going to be the main bike and the 2011 Kona Unit is being relegated? to "joy of cycling" status.

I'm afraid that if I do too many more races on the Unit, I'll lose the "joy" part and I never want that to happen. I love that bike. The geometry, the ride, the effort needed. Just not the hammering the body takes over the rough stuff...


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Graveltattoo said:


> Wheel size is easy......29er! But I'm a taller rider. With me riding the North Shore I've been advised by many locals to get the Range, due to it being a bit more burlier. I'm looking at the A9.1 in both models, for an extra $200 the Range comes with a better fork, shock, rims and brakes. I guess I'll just get a better work out climbing!


Which one did you get???


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> I've finally made the jump to full suspension AND gears.
> The last 5 years have been single speed exclusively and mostly rigid.
> Now there's a 2012 Anthem in the stable and I've decided it's going to be the main bike and the 2011 Kona Unit is being relegated? to "joy of cycling" status.
> 
> I'm afraid that if I do too many more races on the Unit, I'll lose the "joy" part and I never want that to happen. I love that bike. The geometry, the ride, the effort needed. Just not the hammering the body takes over the rough stuff...


Are you enjoying the FS?? I'll bet your are.....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

HotHead said:


> Are you enjoying the FS?? I'll bet your are.....


It's OK.
I enjoy the rigid single speed much more, but my post ride ibuprofen consumption has gone down 

So far, I'm faster on the flats and slight downhills.

Just serviced the fork and am about to do the shock. Looks like it's the first time since it left the factory...


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

You ride on the North Shore? Definitely get the range. It's the perfect bike for those trails.


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

NordieBoy said:


> It's OK.
> I enjoy the rigid single speed much more, but my post ride ibuprofen consumption has gone down
> 
> So far, I'm faster on the flats and slight downhills.
> ...


Time spent getting the suspension dialed in for your weight is time well spent especially if you're working on them already. Huge differences in feel from stock (aka not set up for you) setup to getting it just right.
It's definitely a different feel though even compared to a hardtail that takes some getting used to. You can use the FS for your training rides for an every now and again ride on your old standby


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## Graveltattoo (Sep 14, 2017)

HotHead said:


> Which one did you get???


I ended up get the Range A1 29er.

I've been riding it since March, I have no regrets!!! I'm doing things I never thought I'd be doing, steep technical drops, 6ft drops and smaller jumps. The Range is very confidence inspiring, absolutely love it. I feel like a 20 yr again, it so much fun. It climbs well enough.

On a side note, I went to Suspension Therapy in North Vancouver, Arthur is a suspension whisper, he's such a knowledgeable resource. My suspension is completely dialed in for ME, which made a HUGE difference in how the bike handles now. My only regret was not seeing him sooner.


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## cairnmtb (Dec 18, 2017)

NordieBoy said:


> It's OK.
> I enjoy the rigid single speed much more, but my post ride ibuprofen consumption has gone down
> 
> So far, I'm faster on the flats and slight downhills.
> ...


I'd posted earlier in the thread about contemplating suspension and gears, after having been a dedicated rigid SS rider. I rode the 401 in Crested Butte in the spring on my Monocog and ordered a Blur the following day.

I really enjoy the Blur, particularly now that I've ditched the Aspens (that's another conversation), but I loved riding the Monocog. I am having fun adjusting to the new bike, the gears, and suspension. Though I can be more aggressive on downhills, and the gears are great, I think I was a much better rider on the rigid SS.

I am keeping my focus on getting better with the gears.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

cairnmtb said:


> I'd posted earlier in the thread about contemplating suspension and gears, after having been a dedicated rigid SS rider. I rode the 401 in Crested Butte in the spring on my Monocog and ordered a Blur the following day.
> 
> I really enjoy the Blur, particularly now that I've ditched the Aspens (that's another conversation), but I loved riding the Monocog. I am having fun adjusting to the new bike, the gears, and suspension. Though I can be more aggressive on downhills, and the gears are great, I think I was a much better rider on the rigid SS.
> 
> I am keeping my focus on getting better with the gears.


Yep, we've got a back(ish)country race in a few weeks and I've done it 4 times single speed and a couple of times rigid.
There's a 20min (for me) section called Boulder Valley that leaves me feeling like my biceps have been tried to be forcibly removed by shaking.
Neck and kidneys don't fare much better.

Gears and suspension should help the body prolong the cycling career and judicious application of the rigid SS will help the mind.


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## d9h (Sep 29, 2018)

I went FS back in college and loved it. Climbing was better. Cornering was better. Only downfall at the time was the weight gain. After a year, I switched back to a hardtail. I immediately started tearing up rear wheels. I didn't realize how forgiving the rear suspension was and how much faster it was. I went back to FS a year later and still ride FS today. FS is much more forgiving on a bad back as well


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