# What bike that isn't long and slack



## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Believe it or not, not everyone wants a long and slack bike. I ride in MN and tend not to get too aggressive. I like technical climbs and decents, but not drops and jumps. I like technical switchbacks and the tighter woods riding. 

What short travel full squish bikes aren't all slacked out? Seems like the trend is mellowing a little bit, but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

Canyon Lux?
69.5 degree HTA isn't slack by my standard.
And 430mm reach in size M also isn't long at all. In fact, it's shorter than other modern small bikes.


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## Scubaman66 (Jan 10, 2022)

A used one from a few years ago? Seriously - not being snarky.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

wrightcs77 said:


> Believe it or not, not everyone wants a long and slack bike. I ride in MN and tend not to get too aggressive. I like technical climbs and decents, but not drops and jumps. I like technical switchbacks and the tighter woods riding.
> 
> What short travel full squish bikes aren't all slacked out? Seems like the trend is mellowing a little bit, but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


Used would offer the most choices but if you want new, two that come to mind are the Pivot 429 Trail and the Ibis Ripley 4. Not cheap but both are really excellent.


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## Steel-Onions (Sep 3, 2021)

Cube bikes tend to lean towards the older geo i think..


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Pick a bike then size down perhaps, it doesn't always work but in some brands its not bad


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## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Pick a bike then size down perhaps, it doesn't always work but in some brands its not bad


Ha, I have to size up to get the same fit of the old geo. Just bought a frame in XL (always been a large) and the eff tt is 3" shorter even though the reach is 50mm more, I don't know if I will be even able to ride it.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Jamis Portal looks good.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

What head angle are you looking for? "not slacked out" is kind of vague.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

wrightcs77 said:


> but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


What have you demo'd? Would be helpful to know.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

jeremy3220 said:


> What head angle are you looking for? "not slacked out" is kind of vague.


Yes, this. Though from the description is sounds like general trail riding with some emphasis on the climbs in which case I'd suggest taking a look in the "down country" segment. Or for a slightly more normal trail bike like the Revel Rascal.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

wrightcs77 said:


> Believe it or not, not everyone wants a long and slack bike. I ride in MN and tend not to get too aggressive. I like technical climbs and decents, but not drops and jumps. I like technical switchbacks and the tighter woods riding.
> 
> What short travel full squish bikes aren't all slacked out? Seems like the trend is mellowing a little bit, but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


basically all modern budget bikes are not slacked.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Lenzsport might fit the bill


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

I am 6' 1" tall. Long torso, shorter legs for my height. +2 ape index.

I have had a 2019 rocky instinct c70 in XL. Felt decent, should probably have been on a large. Felt like I was very high and riding on a horse.

Current bike is a 2021 large Alchemy Arktos 130/120. Rolls fast and pumps good in rolling singletrack. Feels a little inefficient. Feels long.

I also ride a large 2020 Otso Voytek fatbike. Bike feels great. I feel the most comfortable getting any "pop" on little bumps with this bike. Yes, it is a hardtail. But, I rode full suspension from 1997-2010. Then again from 2017-2019. Have debated just riding the Otso year round. Will be trying it out more this summer.

Tried a 2021 Tallboy. Not a fan of it. 

Want to try a Pivot Trail 429 and a Ripley. Would love to try an Exie.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Look at the XC bikes from any manufacturer: Trek Super caliber has a 69 degree head angle, SC Blur has 68 deg, etc. If you're between sizes you can also go for the smaller size with a longer stem to compensate. That very much goes against conventional wisdom, but will emulate older, shorter wheelbase geometry to some extent


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## utmtbrider (Dec 8, 2020)

I bet you would love a Revel Ranger. It sounds like that would be a rad bike for you.


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

Yeah, sounds like you want an XC bike. I was in the same search last year and was between the Canyon Lux, SC Blur, and Trek Supercaliber. Chose the Supercaliber and could not be happier.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Yeti SB115 is relatively "old school" geo for a bike in 2022. Pivot Trail 429 in large could also work pretty well for you. Revel Ranger is another good option. I've been riding a Ripmo V1 for the past several seasons in MN. The Ripmo works for everything, but isn't the best at anything.


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## coachxtaylor (Feb 13, 2020)

utmtbrider said:


> I bet you would love a Revel Ranger. It sounds like that would be a rad bike for you.


agree. best bike i’ve ever owned.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

coachxtaylor said:


> agree. best bike i’ve ever owned.


is it brand or model


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I sometimes eyeball the xc type fs bikes from BXT on ebay, they've got 2 designs, both look to be for 100mm forks, - up forking to 110 would be interesting and probably 'slack' by only about 1 degree?
If you consider that any 'mid price' new bike will probably have a 'mid price' quality wheelset, building up from a frame with a wheelset you actually want starts to make more sense. No-name spokes tend to start breaking after a season or two of hard use, but I don't think I've ever broken a DT. 
I've been putting quite a bit of time on a bxt hardtail, it's very 'old school' xc geo, but a fast and good riding bike, my son raced it in cat2 for 2 seasons and did well with it, I'm using it as a training bike (now that he's 100% into running) and my experience with our bxt hardtail has been very good.
- just a suggestion to consider. 29er Carbon Full Suspension XC Frame T1000 Carbon Travel 100mm MTB Frame | eBay


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I have the same requirements and looked at the Otso but ended up with a B-Fat Lenz Fatillac and I love the bike and it fits and rides the way I need it to.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

OP, you didn’t get along with the Instinct XL? (I have one of these in a rowdy build)

That stock C70 isn’t a very big bike and that was the generation right before things got longer/slacker.

If you slacked it out via Ride9 chip, the reach was minimal (like 482) with only a 66d hta and a low BB, Pretty decent for you if you threw on a shorty stem. Heck the Headtube wasn’t very long either (lower stack). That would kind of be the best bet for what you describe TBH.

Can you describe a bit more about what you didn’t like about it? These other Not-Long bikes are going to be very similar to that, if not taller due to higher bottom brackets. Less travel in some of them but not massively unless you drop to a XC whip.

As for other bikes, the revel sounds cool but similar to the Instinct. You might try shorter travel rig like the Pivot Trail 429 or heck even a 27.5 bike like a Ibis Mojo.

Dropping down in size (depending on the bike) can sometimes add to that “on top of the bike” feeling rather than take away from it.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

wrightcs77 said:


> I am 6' 1" tall. Long torso, shorter legs for my height. +2 ape index.
> 
> Current bike is a 2021 large Alchemy Arktos 130/120. Rolls fast and pumps good in rolling singletrack. Feels a little inefficient. Feels long.
> 
> ...


Have you just considered either a hardtail or a 29+ set of wheels for you fat bike? It almost sounds from this like you might be happier with that then a full sus. 

Otherwise maybe look at XC full sus like people have mention Supercaliber, Canyon Lux, etc.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

not sure anymore, but for ages Kona was known for having really short cockpits...


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

29 x 2.8s on your otso and a suspension fork of some sort in the 100-120mm range.

I am doing this setup on a suzi q with a 110mm travel wren fork.

Otherwise a niner rkt comes to mind or some of the bikes already mentioned.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Scubaman66 said:


> A used one from a few years ago? Seriously - not being snarky.


I bought a 2012 full suspension model recently. Just 80mm out back, upsized from 100 to 120 in front. I've only put two rides on it, but it's just what I want it to be after a year on a modern bike.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

I felt the same way as the OP on my old Pivot Mach 5.7. I was stoked when the frame broke. I've been on a Mach 4 27.5" ever since and couldn't be happier - I'm not sure how their current line compares though.

It looks like you can get a used one (I'm 5"11 and also ride a "Large/Long")

Pivot Mach 4 Mountain Bike - 2018, Large/Long


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## MyDadSucks (Sep 6, 2017)

a Pivot mach4 or trail 429, Evil following v3, revel ranger, ibis exie, the new SC blur...

Plenty of new bikes that are not too long/slack. And you could always size down if you feel reach is too long.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

+1 on Revel Ranger, especially since you mentioned your 6'1" height.


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## Leveq (12 mo ago)

Any XC bikes entered the chat


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

OP- to answer the original question...
Almost any bike that is a size too small for you with suspension that is way too stiff.
Yesterday's XLs are today's mediums...or something like that.
Outside of that, take a look at Banshee
Also, best to ride a few options that you may consider too long and slack as you'll likely find that chart specs/measurements don't give the whole story.
Some bikes with geo flip chips and a wider range of suspension sag options could meet your need on trail vs on geo chart.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Thinking that XC be the direction I need to try.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Canyon Neuron,









Neuron


Canyon Neuron ⏩ Our touring and trail bike Neuron convinces beginners and experienced bikers ✅ 6 years warranty ✅ 30 days return policy!




www.canyon.com


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

wrightcs77 said:


> Thinking that XC be the direction I need to try.


Even "XC" bikes these days are slacked out, so they might not be enough of what you're looking for. I had to look to older used bikes to get what I wanted.


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## skunkybiker (Oct 29, 2021)

Just get a any decent new XC bike in the right size -- I think you will be surprised at how well they work even in tight stuff once you learn how to ride them. I ride tight switchbacks up and down better now on a Banshee Paradox V3 and Yeti SB100 than I did with my 2013 Highball and 2010 Blur. And they definitely are faster even on the relatively mellow trails in Bend than those bikes -- my Strava PR's over the last 10 years prove this out -- at age 50 I'm faster in singletrack than at age 40 (I started riding at 19), and that makes no sense other than the bikes got better.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm 6'1" and I have a Ripley AF. I'd pick a Ripley or Revel Rascal.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

The problem with "XC" vs "trail" bikes, is the XC bikes will generally be stiffer, and less comfortable. Going XC isn't always the best solution, if you're not into racing and want comfort over maximum pedal efficiency.


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## Larsey (Jan 14, 2004)

Being from MN and riding Cuyuna a couple times a week the Yeti SB115 is a hard bike to beat. Also like the Ripley but definitely more pressure on my hands/wrists. I would love to try an Evil Following for our terrain


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

mike_kelly said:


> I have the same requirements and looked at the Otso but ended up with a B-Fat Lenz Fatillac and I love the bike and it fits and rides the way I need it to.


Those are old school geo bikes. The XXL frame has a 1194mm WB and the CS is only 419mm. My wife's 2012 Giant Anthem XC in a Medium frame has just about the same wheel base. My SC HT has a 1285mm WB. That's 3 1/2" longer WB. Those are early 2000's geo, but if it works for you... ride it! 
It's all about what works for you.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

GKelley said:


> The problem with "XC" vs "trail" bikes, is the XC bikes will generally be stiffer, and less comfortable. Going XC isn't always the best solution, if you're not into racing and want comfort over maximum pedal efficiency.


This is the dilemma a lot of single bike owners have. What and where do I ride the most? Do I want to race? Do I want to bomb down steep rocky downhills? I rode hardtails for years and felt comfortable taking average jumps, but the pedaling efficiency was always solid. Then I started riding steeper single tracks and got addicted to the technical and adrenalin aspect of it. This lead me to wanting at least a medium travel fs bike. My fs bike climbs well, but not as well as my hardtails did. It has a 64 deg HT angle. The handlebars kind of want to flop side to side on steep climbs, by I've learned to brace the bars with my arms on the ups. I don't even think about it anymore. On the steep downhills it's amazingly better. I can take steep drops at speed with ease and confidence. But my bike is still a medium travel bike.
So on a slide scale from Race short travel XC ....to Long travel double crown downhill, I'd put myself somewhere in the middle. No XC races and no big bike park gap jump in my future. Just some flowy steep with some medium jumps.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

I settled on a Ripley but was also very very fond of the the Pivot Mach4 SL. Both are DW links and ride stiff when you need it. What I love about both bikes is how explosive they are when climbing or sprinting. The bonus of the ripley is it can handle some bigger hits if you ride more on the rowdy side. I was coming off an old hard tail and these bikes both felt efficient. All the Santa Cruz bikes felt too squishy and supple for all around use. The other Pivots I rode were heavier than I wanted. The Ripley was a sweet spot. I loved it at first ride just like the Mach4. Problem was the Mach 4 SL wasn't available or I would have bought it on the spot. The Ripley i bought blindly but I have zero regrets.

Transition Spur is also one you should consider.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Jamis Portal


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

wrightcs77 said:


> What short travel full squish bikes aren't all slacked out? Seems like the trend is mellowing a little bit, but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


please don't focus on head angle in isolation. that's not necessarily helpful. wheelbase, and where the BB is relative to the axles, vertically and horizontally, is a better overall indicator of how long and low a bike is.

not being snarky because I am in the same boat: what modern bikes have you tried riding more than a few minutes on trails? unfortunately for me, no one really demos hardtail bikes, so I can't demo them to find out other than to borrow bikes from locals for a spin. If you have access to demos, I'd be curious to see what you think about actually riding one. from what I've read and heard from friends, most people prefer something a little longer and lower once they get used to it. there's a difference between over-biking and just riding something with a more aggressive, modern approach to fit and handling. just because a bike is lower and has a longer wheelbase (reach/ head tube angle), that does not mean it's only good for hucking off cliffs and careening down mountainsides.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

wrightcs77 said:


> Believe it or not, not everyone wants a long and slack bike. I ride in MN and tend not to get too aggressive. I like technical climbs and decents, but not drops and jumps. I like technical switchbacks and the tighter woods riding.
> 
> What short travel full squish bikes aren't all slacked out? Seems like the trend is mellowing a little bit, but most bikes I have tried don't "feel" right.


long is only really good for stability for flat speed.


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