# New bike for 5 year old



## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Hey all, 

My son finally started riding without training wheels this summer and I've been taking him on the local rails to trails (packed stone with minimal slope). He's doing pretty good on there and I think he's ready to step up to a new bike. He's currently riding a 16" POS star wars bike we got off craigslist dirt cheap. He's right at 48" tall now ad I took him to a local bike shop and he sized up well on a 20". Now I'm trying t decide what to do. I have a budget of $400 and know there are a fair amount of options for under $300, but I've been focusing on weight (maybe un-neededly) and those are mostly around 24lbs. I was at dirt fest and saw Pello there and for right around the $400 mark I can get the Rover. 

Any other suggstions around that price? 
Am I focusing too much on weight?

Thanks for the help.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I think you might be able to actually look towards 24". Maybe see if a cheap 20 is available, or to borrow so the transition to larger wheels isn't such a handling challenge. 

You can always put a shorter stem on a 24, bump the seat forward in the rails etc, and as he grows a couple inches, spread things back out. From my memory of where my son was at your son's height, you are going to be short lived on the 20". Especially of he's there at 5 already.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Doing reading right now I'm kind of seeing that. I do have another son who is 2 years younger that will likely inherit whatever I got now. At this point in the year here I'm more so looking for next spring, but who knows what Santa will be doing??? So assuming he tacks on a couple more inches between now and then maybe the 20" would be too small. 

He tried riding a 20" at the LBS, but after he went for the brakes and realized there were no coasters he got off. I now having using the hand brake on his current bike occasionally.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

My oldest is 8 1/2 and I'm just moving him off of is 20". I wouldn't push a 24" but It all depends on the size of the kid.

I got a deal on a used Marin Hidden Canyon on Craigslist and we have it built up at 21lb right now. I'm looking to do a fork upgrade which will take it under 20. I'm moving my 6 year old to that (from another 20")


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

I have to agree not pushing at this size. A 24" bike is substantially larger, just the rotating mass of the wheels is a huge difference over a 20", almost incomparable to the 16" he's coming from.

These are a little higher than your price range, but should hold value well and are great bikes at under 18 lbs. The 20 large is a little more spaced out than a normal 20, so should easily last a few years: https://www.islabikes.com/product/kids-bikes/beinn-20-large-age-6/

May get lucky and find a used one.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

My boy is same size as yours. 5yr old and 50lbs. 20" was perfect. We tried some 24" recently and they were really big.

24lbs is still too heavy. You should be closer to 20lbs imo. There are bikes that can get you there.

Prevelo Alpha 3 is supposedly really nice: 500$ and sub 19lbs
https://prevelobikes.com/products/alpha-three

It doesn't sound like you are riding anything big so I'm guessing a front suspension may wait until later? Don't buy anything with a suspension fork in your price range. Boat anchors and they will entirely suck. Rigid all the way. I've seen a lot of people rave about Orbea bikes and Cleary. If you can find a deal on one of those with the disk brakes, that is a sweet bike (Orbea).


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I would suggest trying to find a 20" single speed. Let him really adapt to the bike size/weight so he can really toss it around before moving up in wheel size to the 24.

Something like the Cleary Owl. It's light. With a bike like that as a base, you can then beef up the tires and do some minor mods. Gears add another level of complexity and confusion and weight IMHO. Another option would be something like the Raleigh Rowdy. Alternatively you could consider the Comencal 20+ bike. https://www.commencalusa.com/ramones-20-shiny-alu-2018-c2x23712457

With all of these, he will eventually run up against the geometry limitations when trying to un-weight the front wheel. To get better geometry you'll have to bust out the master card - Flow, Spawn, LilShredder or Orbea MX20.


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

Cannondale just released a "plus" tire 20" that might be worth looking at: Cujo 20 Cannondale Bicycles

This is what my 5 year old son will be getting for Christmas this year...


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

spartan_msu said:


> Cannondale just released a "plus" tire 20" that might be worth looking at: Cujo 20 Cannondale Bicycles
> 
> This is what my 5 year old son will be getting for Christmas this year...


Looks really cool. I'm guessing it's probably pushing about 25 lbs though bu at least it has some meaty tires.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

FWIW a super popular big brand bike that is great at 20" (I've heard) is the Trek Superfly. Its a rigid bike and is close to your price point.

On a side note, if your kid is riding legit Mt. Bike trails with downhills, jumps, drops etc. its definitely worth it to open up your budget. Especially considering how much riding time a normal kid does and how hard they are on stuff. We've noticed DRASTICALLY how much more trails have opened up for us (5yr old) since moving to a bike with a legit fork (RST or Brood) that is light, slack, appropriate cranks & gearing and has disk brakes (a big deal). I don't think every kid rides that stuff...but if they do I would drop the cash in a heart beat for the safety alone.

Now I'm just trying to figure out how to budget for a Trail Craft fully 24" once we grow up a bit more. Those Maxwell FS at 24lbs are rediculously nice...tho I'm hoping by then for another 20mm of suspension for that high price.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

jestep said:


> Looks really cool. I'm guessing it's probably pushing about 25 lbs though bu at least it has some meaty tires.


yeah that looks HEAVY. I'd pass if its over 21lbs. Some kids have fat bikes in our hood that are identical to that bike (KHS fattys). They are heavy and kind of cumbersome even for the older kids riding them (7 & 8). When they jump with us, its really tough for them.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys; a lot to digest. 

My son is pretty timid usually and I don't think he'll be doing anything too extreme. I definitely planned to keep it to a fully rigid, but would like to have something geared for him as we are in hilly Pennsylvania. Once he gets something trail worthy I'll start taking him on some pretty simple trails. If he starts killing it then it'll probably be about the time he would need a 24", which I would think would open up my options even more. 

I'm been seeing a lot on the Superfly and that may be a nice option. A lot of the others mentioned seem to be creeping up in price and I really can't go much higher. The Commencal Ramone looks nice, but the weight is around 22lbs. 

I think at this point my top considerations would be 

Trek Superfly 20"
Pello Revo

The Trek seems like a good options since there are actually dealers around and he can probably test ride it.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Trek Superfly 20" is a great option for the $'s. Its only problem is the cranks are too long. Ask you dealer to change them out for Trek grow cranks which have holes to screw in pedals at 120mm and 140mm. My son loved the superfly and rode it with pedals in the 120mm holes until he graduated to a 24" at age 7 (tall for his age). Its light, everything works and the geometry is nice - also holds value well.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

I just did a ton of reaseach on this and the WOOM 4 has the lightest weight in that price range. It also has great fit and geometry. It will also fit a 20 x2.10 tire if you want to put a more aggressive tire on it. Only weighs 16 pounds.

https://us.woombikes.com/products/4


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Completely disagree that the right 24 will be too big. A number of the 24" bikes out right now, that also are available as frame only, have ETT lengths in the 480~ range. That's the same as a good deal of 20"ers on the market. Its the same general concept as us riding glorified road wheels on our mountain bikes. Better roll over, maintaining of speed, better tire deformation patch etc, etc. Not to mention more options for parts. (Just barely) 

And if a 20" plus bike is an option but a 24" isn't...I'm scratching my head pretty hard. 

OP. If it's in your budget, look at Trailcraft, and Vpace. Both can be done complete, or frame only.


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

svinyard said:


> yeah that looks HEAVY. I'd pass if its over 21lbs. Some kids have fat bikes in our hood that are identical to that bike (KHS fattys). They are heavy and kind of cumbersome even for the older kids riding them (7 & 8). When they jump with us, its really tough for them.


I was told by my LBS that the bike is 19lbs. I haven't verified that, but I did pick it up at the shop, and I was surprised at how light it felt.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

oops


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

jochribs said:


> Completely disagree that the right 24 will be too big. A number of the 24" bikes out right now, that also are available as frame only, have ETT lengths in the 480~ range. That's the same as a good deal of 20"ers on the market. Its the same general concept as us riding glorified road wheels on our mountain bikes. Better roll over, maintaining of speed, better tire deformation patch etc, etc. Not to mention more options for parts. (Just barely)
> 
> And if a 20" plus bike is an option but a 24" isn't...I'm scratching my head pretty hard.
> 
> OP. If it's in your budget, look at Trailcraft, and Vpace. Both can be done complete, or frame only.


A five year old on a 24inch. You just jumped the shark.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

You just stuck your (witty??) foot in your mouth.

MAX Kinder-Mountainbike Rahmen - solo - VPACE Bikes ...for 115cm and up. Equals 45~ inches tall.

Check this kid RIPPING harder than you yourself will ever dream of on the 26". http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/26-vpace-custom-build-my-8-year-old-1053124.html

Nice try.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

And very similar to that geo, but domestic and a great company, is Trailcraft with their Pineridge. 

You definitely got it right with the screen name...emphasis on the tail end of it.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I saw a 20 year old on a 29er the other day .... surely they aren't old enough?

Anyway, we got pretty much exactly 9mo on 20" wheels... from Jnr being JUST big enough for the 20 to just big enough for his 24"

As a one off I'd say buy cheap but if its already earmarked for a younger sibling then perhaps worth spending a bit more...

Most 20er seem to fall into 2 categories... a few with decent kit, free hub rather than freewheel, disc mounts and cheaper ones.... we didn't have a sibling so in our case it didn't seem economic to throw money at the 20.... as in a decent suspension fork, wheels etc. so it got used as it was which was a reasonably (20lb-ish) light rigid.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

If Cujo is under 20lbs that seems awesome. Fat bike should make his riding a bit easier and disc brakes are always good. I'll have to stop at LBS and see if they have it in. 

Woom is crazy light and looks like it could be a good option. 

I do have another son 2 years behind him, so whatever I do here will end up being passed down.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Giant xtc jr


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## natepac (Dec 5, 2007)

Stay away from the Giant Xtc Jr. as its a boat anchor. My son has the 20" and it weights 26lbs.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm talking about the rigid bike with the one by drivetrain, can't believe my kids bikes weigh 26 lb. I will weigh both of them tonight but for under $250 they are a great way for kids to develop skills and decide whether or not they are into it.

Until they decide they want to ride with me 4 days a week and stop growing a little bit... after that I'll buy them a Ripley LS just like mine🤘


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## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

jestep said:


> Looks really cool. I'm guessing it's probably pushing about 25 lbs though bu at least it has some meaty tires.


They sell the Cujo 20 at REI (online), and they said in the Q/A https://www.rei.com/product/124890/cannondale-cujo-20-plus-kids-bike-2018 that it weighs 21.7 lbs. It does look pretty good, but the Orbea MX20 Team Disc might be worth the bump up in price because the rims are tubeless, it has an 8 speed cassette which could be upgraded more easily, trigger shifters, and hydro brakes. I'm just not sure of the weight for the Orbea or what the max tire size is. Those 2.6 tires are supposed to be pretty good.

I'm trying to make this same decision for my son later this year or early next year.

Now if you can use an REI 20% off coupon it would be a really good deal.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

The bottom bracket on that Cujo looks awfully low slung. Like way more than needs to be compensated for the larger volume tires. 

I'm not sure I'd be considering that bike based on that alone. Pedal strikes are going to be off the charts in real terrain. Would it be good for bike paths? Sure, but then what is the point of plus tires?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Shoot a PM to DickyT about the weight on the 20" Orbea MX20 Team Disc. He should be able to help on the tire size that can fit as well. 

I have the 24" and I believe that a pair of 2.6 could fit in that, no problem. Not sure on the 20, but it is probably pretty similar.


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## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I noticed that the cujo has a 110mm crank, which seems short (mx20 has a 127 crank). I wonder if this was to compensate for the low bb? Our 16"bike has a 102 though, so it might not be that bad.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

That Cujo 20 seems like a good deal. Not a lot info out on it yet. Singletrack did a mention on it here and posted some good pics of the bike itself. Cannondale 2018: The Kids Bikes | Singletrack Magazine
Would like to see that bike on the scale. If it really weights 21 pounds with the big tires that's a decent bike for the money.

I tried to find an orbrea team disc 20 a couple of weeks ago and was told there is no stock in the USA. Jensen USA had them before but they are all gone.

The only issue I did not like with the Woom 4 is it has a 1 inch headset instead of 1 1/8. Which basically means there are no fork upgrade options if you want to put a shock on later. But it is the lightest at that price point.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Gangly1 said:


> I noticed that the cujo has a 110mm crank, which seems short (mx20 has a 127 crank). I wonder if this was to compensate for the low bb? Our 16"bike has a 102 though, so it might not be that bad.


For a 20, I think that's too short. Should be in the range of 120-130 for the general size rider that will fit it. Putting longer cranks on it is going to raise issues, guaranteed. The geo for that bike looks to be off in a way that isn't about rear end length and headangles etc, but rather in a way that is going to make the bike a useless hindrance for all but riding paths.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Crashtestdummee said:


> I tried to find an orbrea team disc 20 a couple of weeks ago and was told there is no stock in the USA. Jensen USA had them before but they are all gone.


You should definitely grab a Cujo.


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## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I went back through the MX20 thread, and reports there put the weight at 21.5 lbs and the fork width at 2.78", with a recommended 2.5" as the largest tire. I have heard good reports on the Kenda Slant 20" x 2.6" tire (same as the Cujo), but it looks like it probably won't work on the MX20.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, that's considering that the Slant is an actual 2.6, which I kind of doubt. The tires can't be too pricey...I'm guessing 30a piece? Maybe try a set and unload if they don't work? 

I've been very happy with my sons MX24TD. If the 20 had been available 3 years ago I would have gotten that for him. 

That said, the VPace 24 and the Trailcraft Pineridges might have been an even better idea since they are geo'd to fit like a 29er for us. (I'm not sure that's what Trailcraft is going for, but it works out pretty well). They both have ETT'S and reaches that are almost the same as my sons Zaskar 20.


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

Has anyone had a chance to take a look at this one? https://www.commencalusa.com/meta-ht-20-shiny-red-2018-c2x23712448


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

crepasz said:


> Has anyone had a chance to take a look at this one? https://www.commencalusa.com/meta-ht-20-shiny-red-2018-c2x23712448


Its a nice bike but its in an elite price range but has some serious flaws. Too heavy for the price. Component set isn't great for the money too. I like the idea of 100mm fork for kids going hard but I'd want to get/see some comparisons first to the Brood Fork before committing. Only 9 speed. Cranks are way too long. Going to suck to climb with the gearing up front being 32t and the back only goes 11-34.

For the extra 150$ you get a much better and lighter bike in the Spawn Yama Jama 20". Its two pounds lighter, has GX components (I think its 3 steps up from x5), the derailuer is a short cage, cranks are 130mm (145mm on Meta is stupid), the gearing is 30t up front and 11-36 in the back and 10 gears. The brood fork is second to none at the moment for 20".


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

I just won a Diamondback Oso Nino in a raffle. I have a 4 year old granddaughter who just spotted the thing in the garage and is now very excited for the time when she's big enough to ride it. The bike is hilarious. I've already ordered a shorter stem and a trigger shifter to replace the twist grip.

Great investment of a $10 raffle ticket.


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

That crank in particular had me wary.... 5 year old rode a Scott with 20+ tires and loved it. That what kept me coming back and looking...


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

I just learned of the Trek MT60, I'm guessing this is the predecessor to the superfly. Looks like I may be able to pick one of those up used for about $150. Do you guys think that would be a good way to go?


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Ok, looking more and seems like a 26lb bike so not really what I'm looking for. If I was going to do that I'd be better off just getting something like the Giant XTC jr for about $225 that weighs about 23lbs.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

I hate for my first real post to be trying to sell something,,,, but,,,, I just posted my son's Trek Superfly 20 in the classifieds this morning. Even with shipping it would probably fit your budget(?) They are great bikes, we did a couple simple upgrades and my boy could ride any where with me. Never weighed his but they are light, probably around 20 lbs.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

I'm very interested; send me a PM with details.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

sent


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Good find there. Seems like everyone likes those Superflys. I like that it's a rigid bike too. Most of those 20" suspension forks just aren't effective, even with the Air ones.


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## JCKID58 (Nov 20, 2017)

Yep, it's been a perfect bike.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I will also give an enthusiastic thumbs up for the Trek Super fly. I bought my, now, 7.5 year old son the superfly and he loves it. It is light enough for him to pick it up if he falls. It is not worth it to buy a heavy 20incher with junk suspension. I will say that on proper mountain bike trails he is struggling on all but the smoothest trails. I am strongly considering a plus bike for my other son who is 5.5 as I think being able to air down a bigger tire will take the edge off of what I observed my older son to be struggling with on the trail. Anyone know if these plus bikes can go tubeless?


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## Rascal Rides (Jan 27, 2015)

We just started my 5 year old on the Prevelo Alpha Three. I saw someone recommend it above, and have to agree. Super nice bike, but a little above your price range. For under $400, the Cleary Owl is your best bet. 19 pounds and a nice build.

If you're interested in the Alpha Three, here is my full review: https://rascalrides.com/best-bikes-kids/ I've also included a comparison chart in there so you can see how the Cleary Owl compares.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Looks like I may be getting a used Raleigh rowdy. I should know better by mid week. Hoping it all goes through well. Seems like a decently light weight bike for the price.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

csheakos said:


> Looks like I may be getting a used Raleigh rowdy. I should know better by mid week. Hoping it all goes through well. Seems like a decently light weight bike for the price.


Decent and price are all relative especially for kids bikes... and whatever you buy will be lacking something... adult sized mechs and chains etc aren't something easily overcome and they weigh what they weigh...

We got 9mo on a 20 then Jnr was big enough for a 24 and retrospectively any decent used 20 would have been fine... by the time they are big enough for a 24 you have a better idea what they want to ride and what is holding them back....


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

When my son was 5 I got him a 20" Gary Fisher Precaliber. Bike was cool and I upgraded it to death to make it more rideable off road. Tires were way too skinny though.
Just yesterday, I was in a bike shop and noticed a yellow Scott 20+ bike. First thing that popped into my head was I wish that bike existed when my son was small. He's 13 now and transitioning from a medium to a large fat bike.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

any suggestions on a 6 speed trigger shifter for the Raleigh rowdy? My son is having a hard time with the grip shift and I think he may do better shifting with a trigger.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

csheakos said:


> any suggestions on a 6 speed trigger shifter for the Raleigh rowdy? My son is having a hard time with the grip shift and I think he may do better shifting with a trigger.


Shimano Tourney TX-30 is one of the only options. They're not as good as the 7 speed rapid fire style but still better than grip shifters IMO.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

csheakos said:


> any suggestions on a 6 speed trigger shifter for the Raleigh rowdy? My son is having a hard time with the grip shift and I think he may do better shifting with a trigger.


Another good option could be to upgrade to 7 speed. The new freewheels are only about $15, you can get the megarange one, which is nice for a bailout gear, and then run the m310 shifter.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

SpuTTer said:


> Another good option could be to upgrade to 7 speed. The new freewheels are only about $15, you can get the megarange one, which is nice for a bailout gear, and then run the m310 shifter.


That would definitely be a better option. Were 6 and 7 speed freewheels compatible on the same hub? I was almost thinking the 7's had lengthened the freewheel interface.


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

How can I find out if the 7 speed freewheel will fit or it should just fit?


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## fastpath (Aug 27, 2004)

6/7/8 and even 9 speed freewheels should fit if it's a 135mm spaced rear. Sometimes it's easier to fine a cheap 9 speed shifter. I'm currently running a 9 speed shifter and 8 speed freewheel on a hotrock. In fact, I might have the old 7 speed freewheel...


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## csheakos (Apr 11, 2016)

Going to order the cassette and m310 this weekend, will I need a new deraileur as well


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