# Rockshox Dart 2 vs Tora -- deal breaker? 2 bikes ordering soon



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

Hey guys can you help
Looking at 2 or 3 very similar bikes. But the fork choice have me stopped

*=== 2010 GT Avalanche 1.0 $699* -Rock Shox Tora 302 with 100 mm travel, mag lowers, lock out and rebound adjust 








https://www.gtbicycles.com/bikes/mountain/endurance/avalanche-1-0-disc

*=== 2010 Felt Q720 $749 * - RockShox Dart 2 with Turnkey lockout Aluminum Lowers, Aluminum Crown, Steel Steer Tube, 28mm Upper Tubes, Preload Adjust, 100mm Travel. Disc Brake Specific Lower Legs








(180mm F, 160mm R rotors)

https://2010.feltracing.com/USA/2010-Product-Catalog/MOUNTAIN/Q-Series/Q720.aspx

*=== 2011 Felt Q720 so new maybe MSRP $999?* - RockShox Tora TK 100mm Travel: 1 1/8 steerer;Turnkey Lockout, Coil Spring, Adjustable Preload and Rebound








https://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2011/Mountain/Q-Series/Q720.aspx
(2010 Shimano Hydraulic brakes and Tora)

In terms of GT vs Felt the components are very similar (Shimano Deore, WTB SX-24 Rims). Felt is made in Taiwan, I see that as a positive. I am not sure where the GT is made, but hard to order. GT has the Kenda nevegal but the knobbies on the Felt doesn't seem bad for trail use. Both brakes are probably not that great Felt:Shimano M486 (more positive) vs Tektro Auriga on the GT. Not worth complaining there is no bike with real good hydraulic brakes in this price range.

So I get an OK deal on the 2010 Q720.. it is available for immediate purchase, in my size.
I know everyone prefer Tora over the Dart 2, well it's a $100 vs $200 part right.
I am a beginner so does it really matter if I get the Dart 2, maybe I can upgrade to Fox later? Is the Tora an air charged fork?

I like the paint scheme of the 2010 Q720 most, it won't be hard to get a white fork to match later. I know I should not care for color but the white rims are nice on it 
OK please give me some input. Should I inquire about getting the 2011 Q720 I am sure it cost more.


----------



## Bodie6 (Sep 17, 2009)

*At this price point...*

I suggest doing a search on ebay. You might be able to score a decent full-suspension for the price your looking to spend ($700-$1000). You'd definitely be able to score a very nice hardtail from ebay between these prices - one with a fox fork already installed and with much better components than the bikes you listed.

However, fit is always most important, and if you're set on buying either the GT or the Felt, then go with the one that fits you the best. If it were my money, I'd go with the 2010 Felt for the simple reason that the Felt has disc brakes, which means that you wouldn't have to purchase a new wheelset if you decided to go with discs in the future (you'd have to buy a new wheelset and new brakes with the GT). Although the Tora 302 on the GT is better than the Dart 2 on the Felt, both have turnkey damping systems (I believe), which means that there are more similarities between the two than there are differences. I'd buy the Felt, ride the hell out of it, and when you have more green, then get a better fork (or ask for one for a present during the holidays). You can easily get a nice used fork from ebay on the cheap (I got a Tora 318 Solo Air for $180).

My advice: do a search on ebay and see what you find. But, if you're going to buy one of these three bikes, then go with the 2010 Felt.

Either way, you're going to love mountain biking!!


----------



## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Sounds like you really like the Felt...I would buy the 10 Felt and ride until stuff breaks or you have extra cash lying around. Wheels, shock, drivetrain.... upgrade in that order if you choose to do so.

Shock's on all three are basic, but will be just fine for your first year of riding.
Don't invest in a high dollar shock until you have some seat time. You will be able to make a better decision when you have some experience


----------



## madsedan (Aug 4, 2010)

If you can get the Avalanche with that shock for $699 buy it.
The shock/fork is almost $200 on its own and its what most of us that buy lesser equipped bikes upgrade to when we bust the Dart fork.
My brother just dropped $300 to have our LBS put that Tora 302 on his bike to replace the crappy spinner.
Felt is nice but for the price I'd get the GT if you can.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

For the GT 
I would have to get from performancebike.com so no test rides..

I consider the 2 price difference minimal, you say get the GT is it only based on I am getting the RockShox Tora from the GT for about the same price.
Both frames have hydroformed tube.

I rode with the dart 2 on another bike and it seems adequate to me much better than the $300-$400 bikes already 

I won't be doing much jumps thats why I am shopping for a hardtail

I don't want to get a internet/ebay bike, I know they out-spec the brand names for the money.. I need to try it to know it is fit for me.


----------



## Clones123 (Apr 29, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> *2010 GT Avalanche 1.0 Disc $699*
> http://www.gtbicycles.com/bikes/mountain/endurance/avalanche-1-0-disc


You gotta love it when a manufacturer can't get either the specs or the photos right for their own products. So the photo of the 2010 GT Avalanche 1.0 Disc shows a bike with V-brakes. The 2010 GT Avalanche 2.0 Disc lists Jalco AX-430 V-brake rims in the specs while the photo shows WTB SX-24 disc rims. I've also see somewhere that GT lists a "Tektro Aquila hydraulic brake" but the Aquila is a ball bearing mechanical brake ("Auriga" is Tektro's hydraulic brake).

We've still got a while to go before the Chinese take over the world I think.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

I kind of have a gut feeling against the GT because of the Pacific bicycle bought out thing
My authorizied GT dealer told me some bad warranty story for GT giving the run around
seems like all brands have this kind of story tho.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

Should I look into the Trek 4500 Disc
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain_hardtail/4_series/4500disc/

MSRP is only $770
isn't it the same kind of bike?

I think this is more comparible (is Deore better than X-5?)
Trek 6000 MSRP $980
Juicy 3 brakes

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain_hardtail/6_series/6000/

Just having a sanity check, pretty sure the LBS don't really have them ready to bargain yet.


----------



## Koppuh Klyde (Jul 13, 2010)

Im feelin' that '10 Felt. Makes me wish I had a Felt dealer locally. Reason is its $250 less than the '11 for about the same specs (if not the same.)

Do you have all of the neccessities like pump, tire levers, tubes etc.? Youre gonna need to get some of dat stuff. I just got back into MTBing recently and have gone through 3 tubes already. The stock ones seemed to be made by Trojan.


----------



## Clones123 (Apr 29, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> I kind of have a gut feeling against the GT because of the Pacific bicycle bought out thing


GT is owned by Dorel Industries who also owns Cannondale (and Pacific Cycle). Look on the GT forum for warranty stories. The one's I've read said GT was a little slow but satisfactory otherwise.

Try not to overthink this - pick something you like and enjoy it. What you don't like about it after a while you can change.


----------



## mtnbeer (Jul 2, 2007)

Maybe not a big deal, but I test rode a Felt Virtue with the Felt brand tires on it. The tires were awful in the mud.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The '10 Felt certainly looks like the best deal. It really hinges on how much you want that Tora. I wouldn't want it for an extra $250 if I was already thinking of the next fork anyway.

If you don't want to deal with part-shuffling, though, the '11 model would probably do well for you for a couple seasons without having to replace anything major.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

The fit and finish, details looks better on the Felt, I was able to see that in person.

Maybe I can get a better fork for it later such as Tora 318? or a $300 fork after I recover from the purchase. I think I can give the original dart 2 /w lock out to my wife's bike who is a light rider and she has a gila RST 80mm and the dart 2 upgrades in travel and lock out feature. So it seems like no parts are wasted in the long run. The Dart 2 seems more than fun enough for her to run over things  
I like the white frame on the '10 much better than the neon green, and when I upgrade the shock it would not change the appearance.

Thanks I hope the bike fits me fine on the test ride, not really sure what to look for I am bringing my GPS to get some speed data out of it.


----------



## wave180 (May 19, 2010)

Try the GT Avalanche first before you decide, you can get it now for $650 or less with discounts.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

wave180 said:


> Try the GT Avalanche first before you decide, you can get it now for $650 or less with discounts.


How do you get that 10% member discount on the first purchase?


----------



## c0ld (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah you can use the 10% even on bikes and I got another 10% I got my 10 Avalanche 1.0 for around $670 with tax.

I would pick the GT I always liked how the HT frames look, and read nothing but good things about the frames. The fork is so much nicer, the tora looks more beefy than the Dart2. Felt looks heavy, so if you get the GT you wont be able to test it out?


----------



## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

PoorCyclist said:


> Should I look into the Trek 4500 Disc
> http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain_hardtail/4_series/4500disc/
> 
> MSRP is only $770
> ...


Being that I live in Wisconsin..the homeland of TREK and have seen TREK evolve from a small custom builder in the early 1980's to it's conglomo status today.. I will have to agree with alot of other posts that I have read on these boards and say that there are better spec'd bikes out there for less $$$ than TREK. You are IMO, paying a premium for the namesake.


----------



## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

PoorCyclist....your original thoughts are still correct. Go with what your gut tells ya.


----------



## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

Dood, seems like a the 2010 Felt is really pulling you...just buy the 2010 Q720...ride it for a while. Keep an eye out continuously for good used or closeout deals on higher end forks like Fox Forx and RS Recon/Reba/Sid....then replace when you find a deal.

You can easily pick up a RS REBA that's a couple of years old and practically new for less than $200...or a Fox F-Series for less than $300.

Just make it simple...there aren't many differences within similar price ranges anyways...just go for the one you really want and deal with upgrades and stuff when the time comes.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi ..
I can test the 2.0 in my size medium better than nothing to test
But no 1.0 there
Felt published weight for the 17.5" is 29.8
Not particularly light
How are the brakes on your GT 1.0?
Made in china or Taiwan?


----------



## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

To me, unless you are going to be racing it.. weight should be pretty much a non-issue.


----------



## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

IMO, the GT is better spec'd and the Felt looks better. Personally, I would go for the GT, because I like function over looks, and I upgrade enough crap that it's worth it to me to get better spec (even if slightly).

They are close enough, though. Go with your gut. It's your purchase. Nobody on the net should sway you. In the end, you live with it, not us. You like the Felt, get the Felt.


----------



## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

captainjoon said:


> Dood, seems like a the 2010 Felt is really pulling you...just buy the 2010 Q720...ride it for a while. Keep an eye out continuously for good used or closeout deals on higher end forks like Fox Forx and RS Recon/Reba/Sid....then replace when you find a deal.
> 
> You can easily pick up a RS REBA that's a couple of years old and practically new for less than $200...or a Fox F-Series for less than $300.
> 
> Just make it simple...there aren't many differences within similar price ranges anyways...just go for the one you really want and deal with upgrades and stuff when the time comes.


Exactly...what he said. Excellent advice, better than mine even. haha


----------



## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

fattybikejones said:


> To me, unless you are going to be racing it.. weight should be pretty much a non-issue.


Not true at all....Ride a 29# bike, and then a 26#. You tell me what you prefer climbing or cornering with....


----------



## c0ld (Jun 29, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> Hi ..
> I can test the 2.0 in my size medium better than nothing to test
> But no 1.0 there
> Felt published weight for the 17.5" is 29.8
> ...


Test it see how you like it, I have a medium too. 1.0 and 2.0 is essentially the same frame just different components, comparing the 2.0 to the 1.0 will have hydraullic brakes, 27spd and a plusher fork I really like my tora. Many argue that tektro is crappy, cant say how they compare to other hydraullic disk brakes since its my first real mtb bike. But compraing them to mech the feel on the brakes is really nice they do stop me, I wouldnt really change them. Also its made in Taiwan.


----------



## rdtmk (Aug 25, 2010)

All the GT Avalanches (3.0, 2.0, 1.0) have the exact same frame as well as 100mm travel forks. So if you test ride one, chances are it will feel the same (geometry wise) as all the others.

I would go with the GT. The frame is amazing. The geometry is great. Its just an awesome bike. My 2010 Avalanche has the stiffest (laterally) frame i've ever ridden. it is truly amazing.


----------



## 59Bassman (Aug 2, 2010)

Couple of other thoughts for you:

JensonUSA has the Jamis Comp 08 for $749 with a Recon:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI279A00-Jamis+Dakota+Comp+Bike+08.aspx

Or the 09 Comp for $839 with a Recon:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI272A05-Jamis+Dakota+Comp+Bike+09.aspx


----------



## wave180 (May 19, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> How do you get that 10% member discount on the first purchase?


You have to buy the $30 Team Performance Membership, then they will credit back 10-20% of your purchases for 12 months, plus they will send you special discounts and magazines.

On my 2 local PBs, they always give me at least 10% OFF on every purchase I make aside from the Team Performance credit.

Last time with my wife's 2.0 xsm, they price matched their online sale which was $350 (2.0 with hydraulic brakes), but I only got the 2.0 with regular brakes since all 2010 2.0s only have mechanical disk brakes. Then they added my $20 coupon from my previous bikes coupon booklet which it ended up about $330 out the door for the 2010 GT Avalanche 2.0. Plus $70 worth of shopper points because they offered double points that time. So $330 plus $70 credit points.

I'm happy with the 1.0 (after 8 trail rides) and planning to keep it until I'm ready to get a FS or a 29er.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

Hey, just came back from a long day of test ride

I did find a GT Avalanche 1.0 at a performance bike shop so I rode it for about 3 miles
It is a very good bike, frame is stiff as I have read many times, although I am only 165 lbs getting lighter soon  Bike weight is 31.5 lbs, the handle bar was a little low and force my neck and torso to lean forward almost all the time. Tora shock is good, better than the Dart 2 but just a little quieter. 

Then I went to the LBS to test the Felt Q720. It's slick looking for sure. Weight is right at just a little over 30 lbs which is as advertised for my frame size. 
The Dart 2 has rebound adjustment and lock out.
It was a close call and I think would be happy with either bike. the Q720 was a little more comfortable to ride (except the seat is just more hardcore) and seemed accelerate to speed faster (I brought a GPS to read my speed) so I ended up taking the Felt, 
I liked the180 front rotors, the front pad was squeaking like crazy and the shop gave me organic pads for the front, that fixed the problem but didn't seem to stop as hard but it is smooth to a stop now, I have to see after some bedding time.

I also complained about the Dart 2 so they will waive the labor to install a new fork for me at anytime! I know it is supposed to be easy to DIY but maybe a little hard for me to mess with. So I think I will be going to air when the time comes.
The LBS is alot closer to bring in for adjustments and questions and was very patient with all the little tweaks I demanded.

So thanks everyone you guys are very helpful.
Here are some pictures I think I just need to get it dirty now.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

more


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

This is what I use to track my speed, heading and heartrate etc.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Sep 2, 2010)

maybe someone know, those half dozen warning stickers (!!) come off easily with a hair dryer right?


----------



## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

With the saddle correctly adjusted, you should only feel pressure on your sit bones. If that's the case, you may just need to get used to the saddle - give it a chance. If you're feeling pressure other places and can't get it to go away, see if the LBS has a bin of takeoffs.

Enjoy the new ride.


----------



## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> maybe someone know, those half dozen warning stickers (!!) come off easily with a hair dryer right?


lol, i guess. i never remove mine. :O

congrats on the ride. it's sharp looking for sure.


----------



## larlev (Feb 22, 2009)

Damn good man....I like it. You made a wise choice and will have a blast. If you need any help adjusting stuff just ask. I for one will help anyway I can.

Getting used to a seat takes awhile. It will hurt no matter what seat you get..especially if your not used to sitting on one. Give it time..a few rides and your butt will get used to it. You also want to level or even tilt it down slightly. I throw a level on and just touch the line with the bubble. Prob like 1/8" drop in front. 
This will do 2 things..one is your weight will be centered, and two relieve some pressure off your boys and hips. Also make sure your seat is at the right height. For starters sit on bike with cranks at bottom of stroke...in line with seat tube. Place heal w/ shoes on pedal and your leg should have a slight bend. There are reasons for this, but I'll keep it at that. You might know this already, so I won't bore you.

Stickers...just peel off. Use fingernail polish to remove residue. Polish will not hurt..just wipe it with water afterwards.

Now get out and ride...post up some trail pics if you can. Congrats again and welcome to the club.


----------



## RDTigger (Sep 9, 2010)

/jealous... I am shopping for my first bike too


If i found that with my size frame for that price I wouldn't have thought twice about it if the ride was good. 

Really nice........Where are you and did they have any more!

PS- Nice Garmin, how much did that run you? I use my Berry with Endomondo for to track my rides. Free is FREE!


----------

