# 1



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

It had to happen 4/3/2/ now 1 XML

As I have run out of freebe stock Aluminium I had to :cryin: buy some in . so taking a leaf out of odtexas`s book went for box section stuff .










got some 1 inch 16 swg gauge walls and some 3/4 inch square bar this is as near perfect as you could wish for slice off an 8 mm piece for the heat sink and after a light rub on some sand paper it is a tight press fit in the box section 
no thermal paste required as it is so tight as to need pressing in with a vice so very good metal to metal contact

a bit of machining for the Laura with out the holder .










and an hour spent doing some finny work 
and an M4 tapped hole for the mount










and all bits ready for an Lflex I used an old maxflex for the weigh in and still have a couple of holes to drill for the switch and power cable


----------



## BKruahnndon (Jul 17, 2009)

.....Perfect!


----------



## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

Wow. Looks really great :thumbsup:


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

nice! This is something I've been thinking about too, should be a simple, straightforward and relatively cheap build. I wonder how well this would work as a helmet light..


----------



## natac (Jul 26, 2008)

I like it. I have some 1" square tubing with 1/16" walls which will take the Laura in it's holder, though I may need to attach a heatsink to keep it cool.

How are you planning to attach the rear cover to the square tubing?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> nice! This is something I've been thinking about too, should be a simple, straightforward and relatively cheap build. I wonder how well this would work as a helmet light..


Hopefully really nice as a helmet light but wont be able to say till George releases his Lflex 
and one swims across the Atlantic .

Natac

Yes I have a bit of box the same as you to play around with but like the thicker walls so as to be able to drill and tap into them .

the end plate will be either bolted on with M2 bolts or more likely glued in with silicon or epoxy


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Very nice looking! 
Should be really good as a helmet light I should think.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Very nice Chris. If you get a decent enough beam out of just the one then I think we are finally getting close to truly minimalistic helmet lights with the ability to helmet mount battery as well.

The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

emu26 said:


> .
> 
> The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?


That's always the question and somehow we always find something new...  
That's why we all keep coming back and comparing bits....:thumbsup:

Light looks great Troutie. The mill and your skill really turns out a professional light from some box section.

This would make a great production light.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Very nice Chris. If you get a decent enough beam out of just the one then I think we are finally getting close to truly minimalistic helmet lights with the ability to helmet mount battery as well.
> 
> The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?


I think we are just scratching the surface yet as we are messing with old optics 
surly the optic makers will get some good ones out for the new XMls soon .

what I am coming to the conclusion is that 2000 lumens is about the max and it is how those lumens are presented that is important .

For me I will just keep bumming along hacking out a few lights until I get fed up with it and then go on to making other stuff

I dont for a minute think it will be able to handle the heat but am not too worried as Georges Lflex will look after that

Odtexas 
yes as a production light something like it would be great but you can be sure MS will have one out cheaper soon .


----------



## cagliari (Aug 9, 2010)

Hi troutie love the new *one* :thumbsup: Think the downward sequence should stop now . Sure you've said b4 somewhere buy what is the bar mount you are using? Is it easy to get in UK?
Cheers.


----------



## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Another masterpiece Chris. And at that weight you won't notice it on your helmet. With George's new lflex, a 3.7v battery and up to of 900 lumens its got to be a winner!

I'd also be interested to know where I can get a few of those mounts. The lupine one is ridiculously expensive for 50p's worth of melted plastic. I can buy two xml's or most of an lflex for the same price


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cagliari said:


> Hi troutie love the new *one* :thumbsup: Think the downward sequence should stop now . Sure you've said b4 somewhere buy what is the bar mount you are using? Is it easy to get in UK?
> Cheers.


the downward sequence has continued tonight. as it is now zero xmls 
dont yet know what happened. but. connected it to the bench power supply and it went to 3.8 volts @ 3amps ran ok for a few. shines around the garden and room 
and then just went out. and wont power up again .
it was not hot either. as i had switched on from cold and was going to letmit heat up to see how fast it got hot .
I think it just died

the mounts are the Electron mounts from chain reaction cycles. £1.99 each


----------



## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Looks good Troutie.
Too bad it bonked out on you.
Had you used this xml for any crazy testing previously?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

savagemann said:


> Looks good Troutie.
> Too bad it bonked out on you.
> Had you used this xml for any crazy testing previously?


nope was a new one. also the Hipflex on my test rig is now dead. so I am thinking it might have been the hipflex killing the XML in its death throws

now out of xmls so it could mean the break up of the quad or wait for some more to arrive


----------



## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> the mounts are the Electron mounts from chain reaction cycles. £1.99 each


Oh I see what you've done. I guess it started as one of these but has been relieved of the knob and bottom link. Very clever. Thanks Chris.


----------



## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

great little light.


----------



## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> nope was a new one. also the Hipflex on my test rig is now dead. so I am thinking it might have been the hipflex killing the XML in its death throws
> 
> now out of xmls so it could mean the break up of the quad or wait for some more to arrive


Or maybe the XML went open circuit and caused the Hipflex to pop? I don't think being connected with no load does them any good


----------



## cagliari (Aug 9, 2010)

troutie-mtb said:


> the downward sequence has continued tonight. as it is now zero xmls
> dont yet know what happened. but. connected it to the bench power supply and it went to 3.8 volts @ 3amps ran ok for a few. shines around the garden and room
> and then just went out. and wont power up again .
> it was not hot either. as i had switched on from cold and was going to letmit heat up to see how fast it got hot .
> ...


Sorry to hear about the sad demise of your last XML, still waiting for mine to arrive. Cheers for the info about the bar mount, the same mount I used for my Lumicycle triple clone last year !! :madman: didn't think about modding the bar mount seemed to work well as was, looks like it works well for lighter builds. Cheers.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

JezV said:


> Or maybe the XML went open circuit and caused the Hipflex to pop? I don't think being connected with no load does them any good


OK i guess I was due a failed led or 2 as have had a good run without bit sad to have the Hipflex go to boot hill too 

anyways good news for me was I had forgotten the one on the ali bar as an optic tester .
so I have one to slot in to the mk2 light .

MK2 light you say  why .

Well I was a bit confused before the led & driver killed each other that the beam was not as I expected so removed the Laura and sat it on the test led and it was good .

so a bit of detective work was needed , I drilled out the centre of a Laura so as to see where it sat on the led










I should have photoed it then but forgot it was about 1.5 mm above the led base plate 
Ahh the culprit .










this is how I wanted it to be 
the laura sits on a ledge in the light and I had arsed up the measurements by the thickness of the optic flange

easy I thought put it back in the mill and take the flange down a bit .










:madman: WRONG :madman:

when I saw chips flying from an unusual place it was too late the case had joined the led and hipflex to the funeral .










so the mk 2 was born with this time with










Re the mounts I have a few of the tops as use the bottoms on the Liberator mounts 
so a good way to use the other half .


----------



## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Ohhhh. I love me some round bottom Fins.........= )
Too bad about the case, but at least you got everything sorted out.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Chris I'm both saddened and yet very happy to read your last post.

saddened by your misfortune, but glad to see that young Fin reappear. I can't tell you the number of times I have searched these forum pages looking for her.


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

crap, between your avatar emu and your picture troutie I think my brain just exploded


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> crap, between your avatar emu and your picture troutie I think my brain just exploded


credit for the RBF. is I believe Znomits 
but she is a Beauty along side Emu s. avatar


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

back to being ready for an Lflex



















and also experimenting with a silicon substitute


























comes with a nice nozzle to put the glue where you want it and seems better than silicon but time will tell the switch and optic are fixed with it


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Just keep that glue away from the ipad. I can only see tears if that gets damaged.


----------



## natac (Jul 26, 2008)

Troutie, where are you planning to mount the lflex?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

natac said:


> Troutie, where are you planning to mount the lflex?


Natac it will sit flat on the botttom but will need 1/2 mm filling off each side as the space is 19 mm wide but looking at Georges pic it should be doable


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Andy 

it something I wont know untill the Lflexs ship and I can finish it 
I was going off the twin and triple .

we dont have many heat problems here in blighty apart from its cold and damp so aiding small light housings .

the difference in heat output is large from max to the next level down .

and dont forget the Lflexs heat related dimming feature will look after it 

your sled should work fine as long as you get a good solid interface with the case


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Andy,

The heat produced and therefore removed is all relative to the ambient temperature and teh movement of air across the housing. 

Lets say your XML on 3amps is only warm to the touch when moving fast but gets hot as hell when going slow or stationary causing the thermal cutout to dim the light, is this a problem for you application. If not, then a minimalistic housing will be fine. 

If however the ambient temperature is hot and you do a lot of slow moving riding and you need full power with no dimming then a bigger housing with more heat sinking may be needed. It is all relative to your application. 

Here in Australia where in summer it can be 28ºC at night when riding, if I want to run full power and still ride slowly I need a lot of heat sinking and an efficient housing. It does make the light a bit heavier and bigger but it suits my application. My winter housings are minimally finned and are smaller and lighter. 

Hope this helps


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

brad72 said:


> Andy,
> My winter housings are minimally finned and are smaller and lighter.
> 
> Hope this helps


Thanks for justifying another build, winter is on the way, time to replace the heavy summer housing :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Andy,
> 
> Here in Australia where in summer it can be 28ºC at night when riding, minimally finned and are smaller and lighter.


Hell we are lucky if we see that temp at midday in summer .
folks are dying from heat exhaustion if it gets that warm .

Teashirt weather at 10c sweater on at 8c windproof on at 3c as a bit chilly

funny thing when we went to Daytone beach in early march a few years ago 
talking to folks in the bar they thought our kids were mad swimming in the sea 
our kids thought the American kids were soft wussies wearing wet suits


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hell we are lucky if we see that temp at midday in summer .
> folks are dying from heat exhaustion if it gets that warm .
> 
> Teashirt weather at 10c sweater on at 8c windproof on at 3c as a bit chilly
> ...


I here you Chris. We moved to Australia from the Uk to Australia in August and swam all day when everyone was rugged up in winter gear. They though we were mad. We couldn't understand why we had the pool to ourselves. Now in 18ºC I put a jumper on.


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Andy13 said:


> troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.


Sheesh, I'm setting up with 1" OD tubing and a slightly smaller sled that fits inside.
I guess I'll see if I need to mount some heatsink or fin the outside once I try running it in summer.


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Andy13 said:


> troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.


The tubing with fins should be enough if you have a decent pace when riding.
In the summer its still 100 degrees (37C) here at 9:00 PM. 
I average between 12 to 14 mph when riding. 
I think as long as you were doing 5 to 8 mph you would probably be fine with finning on a 1" OD finned extrusion.:thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Maybe I do the little blighter an injustice and it will handle the heat just fine .
may even be able to shrink it a tad too .

set it up on the bench supply with the probe approx 2.5 mm from the rear of the led star.
also squidged in a good dollop of thermal paste .

when it cools will do again with a gentle breeze from a desk fan

Ambient about 15c




























and now with a fan running 6 feet away on its low setting to simulate a slow speed riding .


































I concur with Odtexas about the fins and airflow:thumbsup:


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks to all the responses! I can't believe how great this forum is, because of the regular contributors. It's great how you treat newbies, and are still able to discuss incredibly technical crap that is way over my head, hell......most of it is way over my head! Thanks again.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

A single XM-l in this size housing will be perfectly good as long as there is slight to moderate air movement past it. At 3A this design has to deal with ~9W of heat. The first microlight I built is less than half the size of this and deals with ~6W of heat easily as long as you are moving say around 5 mph. This is in 8 to 12C air temps.


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks again guys, the temp readings troutie got are very encouraging as well as the other posts. My uses are either commuting to work, averaging around 20mph or trail riding averaging 8-12mph. If I am going slower I probably won't be needing 2.8A. I am thinking a 6600mAh 3.7v battery should last over 2 hours at 2.8A and over 4 hours at 1.5A. The wife and I hope to only need a couple of hours at the Dirty Kanza


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

OK Chris I'll ask, that light looks like it's wired properly and closed up, what are you using as a driver? Have you got your hands on a test model from George?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> OK Chris I'll ask, that light looks like it's wired properly and closed up, what are you using as a driver? Have you got your hands on a test model from George?


I wish no such luck. 
its wired to the bench power supply 
I closed the back up so it was real world testing as I did a simalar test on a light and left the back off. and it worked fantastically but it would. because it had twice as much surface area exposed to the air.

Hoping my email request to George is near the front of the que.


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I used to spend a lot of time on SilentPCReview.com (I absolutely HATE computer noise, drives me nuts) where a lot of people tried cooling CPUs passively, even to the point where the heatsink was >3lbs. None of it worked particularly well. Now when you put a fan pointing at the heatsink, even a very low speed undervolted fan will drop the CPU temperature by 10s of deg C.

I'm pretty sure that the same applies to heatsinking on bike lights.

Now as to Oz vs. the rest of the world, I don't know, never did much night riding there (young kids etc). However I did have to adjust from riding in >45C+ to <-20C when I moved to the northeast US. That was a shock!


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Vancbiker said:


> A single XM-l in this size housing will be perfectly good as long as there is slight to moderate air movement past it. At 3A this design has to deal with ~9W of heat. The first microlight I built is less than half the size of this and deals with ~6W of heat easily as long as you are moving say around 5 mph. This is in 8 to 12C air temps.


If you were going to fin it, would fins ideally be lengthwise or widthwise?

I will be doing a helmet mount on mine, and hope to have a thermal path to the aluminum angled mount too, which should add some sinking.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I like the fins running lengthwise, though I do not believe there is a functional difference.


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

question on temperature....What is appropriate for the single XML, meaning what can it take? I have my Lflex set at 60c, which trips at approx. 5 min when still. I am not used to lights getting this hot! At what temperature will you damage the LED or Lflex? Can I safely set the temperature cutoff higher, as long as I don't touch the housing a burn my hand? It seems if the Lflex has a 90c setting then that must be appropriate in some situations.
Thanks in advance for the education....again.


----------



## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Keep in mind the internal components like the switch, wire, connectors etc.
Most pvc covered wire is only rated to 90c.
Running the lights really hot will dramatically shorten it's lifespan as well.
I guess if we got at least 5000 hours out of out lights we'd be doing OK.
But most of the LED's are rated for 50,000 hours which sounds a bit better.
But that is at a junction temp of somewhere around 25c


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

OK, does this mean I can safely set the temperature cutoff at 80c? or 70c?
TIA


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

the leds are ok upto 150 degrees c but will be 30/40 degrees hotter than the heatsink they are on

and dont forget the hotter the led the less light comes out the front as this experiment proved



Me personally would not set the driver at more than 70 c


----------



## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

What kind of lumens and throw are you getting from the single XM-L with the Laura?? Would this be good for a helmet mount or better suited for a bar light?


----------



## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Troutie, I thought the temp would lag some but didn't expect that much. Good advice on 70c. Thanks again.


----------



## BKruahnndon (Jul 17, 2009)

Troutie
I think you've answered it before, but what are those small switches your using??


----------

