# I thought e bikes weren't motorcycles?



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/ind...zed-skateboards-earn-retroactive#.XZZLBkZKjcc

"The U.S. Trade Representative published a list of Chinese products granted exclusions in the Federal Register on Friday. The list includes singlespeed adult bikes, motorized skateboards, and electric motorcycles. The electric motorcycle category apparently includes e-bikes, although BRAIN has not been able to confirm that with industry experts.

"Unfortunately we don't have complete information at this time," Alex Logemann, the director of state and local policy for PeopleForBikes, told BRAIN on Friday.

According to the Federal Register post, the exclusion applies to "motorcycles with electric power for propulsion, each of a power not exceeding 1,000 watts." The HTS code for the products excluded is 8711.60.0050 or 8711.60.0090, according to the post.

The U.S. created those new HTS codes this spring, splitting the electric motorcycle category into 8711.60.0050 (with power not exceeding 250 watts) and 8711.60.0090 ("other"). Depending on their motor size, e-bikes fall into either of the codes, along with other electric motorized cycles."

"But oddly, several e-bike importers requested an exclusion for the same HTS code but were denied. Those who requested the e-bike exclusion include Magnum, Rad Power, Allco, Neutron Holdings, and Uber. There was also a request for exclusion on behalf of the e-bike industry by PeopleForBikes and the Bicycle Product Suppliers Association."

I find it interesting that People for Bikes, on behalf of the the e-bike industry, requested a tariff exemption for e-bikes, under the "electric motorcycle" HTS codes. I guess they are motorcycles, when it comes to making a profit, but not when it comes to trail access. Nice. Feel free to move this to the trail building and advocacy section.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Feel free to move this to the trail building and advocacy section.


Please. No.


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## rancher52 (Aug 16, 2019)

You know it's going to happen, all it takes is one city to tax, Registration Fees, Licensing or whatever way to make money off peoples health and enjoyment, of course they'll blame it on Trump, tariffs ,or just get right to taxing E-bikes, Just how Government works, right now it's a budding industry, Just Wait. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## b1rdie (Mar 11, 2011)

By HTS standards, the pistons of a hydraulic break are considered “hydraulic motors” and so, almost every mtb can be considered to have a motor


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

b1rdie said:


> By HTS standards, the pistons of a hydraulic break are considered "hydraulic motors" and so, almost every mtb can be considered to have a motor


Ok sorry. Lol!


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> I guess they are motorcycles, when it comes to making a profit, but not when it comes to trail access. Nice. Feel free to move this to the trail building and advocacy section.


The article linked is not specifically about trail access, so there would not be a reason to move it.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Ebikes are whatever you want them to be when it comes to getting around regs and taxes.

If a company could get away with ebikes being a handicapped person's wheelchair for tax/reg purposes, they would.

So, Spec, Cannondale, Trek will list their ebikes as motorcycles if it gets them around tax/regs.

Whenever you put tax/regs on anything, people/companies try to find a way around it. 

How many of us bought something from out of state because you would not get charged your state's sales tax? Yeah, same thing.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Seems like anything ebike related that's not on par with the site's status quo is "moved" to another spot or mysteriously disappears from existence. Part of the reason I stopped contributing to this site long ago. There are other $$$ interests here that prevent any reasonable ebike related discussion to happen. Especially how bike interests conveniently market them as one thing when it serves their purpose but then say another when tarrifs are at stake.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Lemonaid said:


> Seems like anything ebike related that's not on par with the site's status quo is "moved" to another spot or mysteriously disappears from existence. Part of the reason I stopped contributing to this site long ago. There are other $$$ interests here that prevent any reasonable ebike related discussion to happen. Especially how bike interests conveniently market them as one thing when it serves their purpose but then say another when tarrifs are at stake.


Yes, it called ebike forum and you can read the guidelines for posting here: https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/word-e-bike-forum-moderator-mtbbiker-guidelines-1103825.html
This post is a troll post, just like the one you had a month ago that I deleted. Your intention seemed clear, to stir up controversy, just like this thread.

I don't understand why the anti-ebike people love to come into the ebike forum and try to stir up trouble??? I personally don't understand: fatbikes, single speeds, gravel bikes, etc.. but I can easily refrain myself from going into those forums and try not to put them down or make them feel bad or basically troll them. Why is it so hard for the anti-ebike people (you) to stay out of this forum? I bet just like me you find some of the other forums a little strange, but I bet you stay out of them.

*Ebike forum Guidelines:*
Ebike forum is for generating a positive experience, no drama or trolls.
· This section is for discussion of ebike, ebike specific accessories, stories or what's new in the OEM.
· Let's talk about legal only trails. Any talk about illegal riding can be deleted at moderators discretion
· Any post about derestricting/modifying software will be deleted.
· OEM bike discussion and technologies is the key target (Specialized, Giant, YT, Trek, Focus, Pivot, etc&#8230. Add-on motors, limit discussions to under 1000 watt varieties
· Threads started to purposefully incite other users will be deleted.
· If you cannot tell a difference between a motorcycle and class 1 or 2 ebike, please don't post.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

rancher52 said:


> You know it's going to happen, all it takes is one city to tax, Registration Fees, Licensing or whatever way to make money off peoples health and enjoyment, of course they'll blame it on Trump, tariffs ,or just get right to taxing E-bikes, Just how Government works, right now it's a budding industry, Just Wait.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


If my municipality decided to tax, ask for registration or licensing, or what have you, for any bike or defined ebike, I'd immediately ask for all the benefits associated with this, including road improvements, traffic violation enforcement, insurance, traffic control, and dedicated lanes. That'd pretty much stop their progress on that.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

mtbbiker said:


> Yes, it called ebike forum and you can read the guidelines for posting here: https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/word-e-bike-forum-moderator-mtbbiker-guidelines-1103825.html
> This post is a troll post, just like the one you had a month ago that I deleted. Your intention seemed clear, to stir up controversy, just like this thread.
> 
> I don't understand why the anti-ebike people love to come into the ebike forum and try to stir up trouble??? I personally don't understand: fatbikes, single speeds, gravel bikes, etc.. but I can easily refrain myself from going into those forums and try not to put them down or make them feel bad or basically troll them. Why is it so hard for the anti-ebike people (you) to stay out of this forum? I bet just like me you find some of the other forums a little strange, but I bet you stay out of them.
> ...


Maybe you could mention this to LBB. He seems to, passive aggressively, stir things up here. Just sayin Hi LBB! :ciappa:


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

rockcrusher said:


> If my municipality decided to tax, ask for registration or licensing, or what have you, for any bike or defined ebike, I'd immediately ask for all the benefits associated with this, including road improvements, traffic violation enforcement, insurance, traffic control, and dedicated lanes. That'd pretty much stop their progress on that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk


They listen to you?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> That'd pretty much stop their progress on that.


...or they'd ignore you and go ahead with whatever licensing/taxation plan they had been working on for months. I'm going to say going ahead is more likely than your complaint stopping them in their tracks.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Tomatoes are fruit, but for tariff purposes they are legally vegetables. Same idea. You try to import under whatever has the lowest tax rate.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

mtbbiker said:


> I don't understand why the anti-ebike people love to come into the ebike forum and try to stir up trouble??? I personally don't understand: fatbikes, single speeds, gravel bikes, etc.. but I can easily refrain myself from going into those forums and try not to put them down or make them feel bad or basically troll them. Why is it so hard for the anti-ebike people (you) to stay out of this forum? I bet just like me you find some of the other forums a little strange, but I bet you stay out of them.
> .


It's a combination of ego and fraternity hazing. The ego part is that they worked hard to go fast on singletrack, and then someone not nearly in the same shape passes them by on an e-bike, and they take it personally. Its an apples and oranges ride for both riders and yet they still can't stand getting passed up by anyone on something resembling a bike, so they have to call them motorcycles to feel better.

The fraternity hazing part is that in any male-dominated activity, especially sports, there is always a strong conservative element that is 100% resistant to any change. Their way of enforcing the status quo is to humiliate the newcomers that attempt to introduce anything new to the sport that is even remotely threatening to the establishment. E-bikes are potentially more threatening to access or 'purity', therefore they are targeted more than other new inventions. This kind of thing happens in every group activity everywhere in the world, it's no different for e-bikes. It just seems more obvious here.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> It's a combination of ego and fraternity hazing. The ego part is that they worked hard to go fast on singletrack, and then someone not nearly in the same shape passes them by on an e-bike, and they take it personally. Its an apples and oranges ride for both riders and yet they still can't stand getting passed up by anyone on something resembling a bike, so they have to call them motorcycles to feel better.


Um, nope, I have no delusions that I am faster than someone being assisted by a motor.



richj8990 said:


> The fraternity hazing part is that in any male-dominated activity, especially sports, there is always a strong conservative element that is 100% resistant to any change. Their way of enforcing the status quo is to humiliate the newcomers that attempt to introduce anything new to the sport that is even remotely threatening to the establishment. E-bikes are potentially more threatening to access or 'purity', therefore they are targeted more than other new inventions. This kind of thing happens in every group activity everywhere in the world, it's no different for e-bikes. It just seems more obvious here.


Well, yes, I see no reason why, after 150 or so years, the very definition of what a bicycle is should change to validate to -some- people that they are still riding a bicycle despite having a motor help propel them along.

Btw Rich, did you ever get your ebike tuned to be legal? I've never seen you post that you have. (He won't see this as he blocked me when I tongue in cheek asked if his posts would be deleted when he was called out for riding illegally.)


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

mtbbiker said:


> Yes, it called ebike forum and you can read the guidelines for posting here: https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/word-e-bike-forum-moderator-mtbbiker-guidelines-1103825.html
> This post is a troll post, just like the one you had a month ago that I deleted. Your intention seemed clear, to stir up controversy, just like this thread.
> 
> I don't understand why the anti-ebike people love to come into the ebike forum and try to stir up trouble??? I personally don't understand: fatbikes, single speeds, gravel bikes, etc.. but I can easily refrain myself from going into those forums and try not to put them down or make them feel bad or basically troll them. Why is it so hard for the anti-ebike people (you) to stay out of this forum? I bet just like me you find some of the other forums a little strange, but I bet you stay out of them.
> ...


Well, ebikes are a threat to trail access for everybody, so they are of everybody's personal interest. You would think an e-mod would understand the issues.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Well, ebikes are a threat to trail access for everybody, so they are of everybody's personal interest. You would think an e-mod would understand the issues.


Thanks for your opinion, obviously I disagree and many others do as well. But if this is your concern, then take it to another forum like trail advocacy! Locking post as this will just go round and round with no ones opinion being changed.


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