# Ellsworth Rogue strong enough for DH & FR?



## kruz (Nov 28, 2004)

Hi guys. Is Ellsworth Rogue strong enough for DH & FR? Anyone has this frame?


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## Magick Mountain (Mar 23, 2006)

I know there's a couple guys around here who ride them. [email protected] comes to mind. I almost bought one a while back when I was looking for a new frame as I had found a great deal on a brand new, 2005, midnight blue frame (simply stunning), but after doing some research I discovered that Ellsworth has a bad reputation of not standing behind their frames when they break; and apparently some of these Rogue frames do break.

Take it for what it's worth. There is no doubt that the frames are great performers(by all accounts), and as long as you're not a clyde or a hack, you'll probably be fine.


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## free-rider_down-hiller (Jun 1, 2005)

Simple.....
Its an ellsworth so no its not strong enough.......


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## MT Road (Sep 26, 2004)

Man all of the haters, all frames can break, and Ells has had nothing but good CS reviews for quite a while, the broken frame issue was from 2001 let it go..

I have had two Ells, and no frame issues, I ride a Moment and no issues..


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

MT Road said:


> Man all of the haters, all frames can break, and Ells has had nothing but good CS reviews for quite a while, the broken frame issue was from 2001 let it go..


MT Road, I'm certainly not a hater, but Ellsworth is still having some spotty CS / Warranty with some of their frames.

I think Ellsworths are beautiful bikes, but for the longest time, it seemed like each frame was underbuilt for it's intended purpose. In the quest for being light, Tony E. forgot that folks spending $2300 for a frame might also like them to hold up. I think he's generally learned from those mistakes, but his CS and Warranty policies are still questionable.

As MM said above, a good buddy [email protected] has 2 Dares (an XC build and a DH build) and he rides the hell out of them. You'd be hard-pressed to find a lot of guys on this forum that could outride him (XC, FR, DH, you name it). He loves his Dares and has had excellent service from EW when his '01 Dare got a cracked chainstay last year, but we also give him non-stop grief for his man-love affair for Tony. 

Personally, I have no experience with the Rogue and don't know a soul that rides one so I can't pass you any info. about them. I'm sure [email protected] will chime in here later.

EBX


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

ebxtreme, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Personally, unless I was getting a heck of a deal, I just couldn't drop that kind of money on a bike made by a company who is more well known for its CS issues than its designs. Ellsworth makes some sick looking frames and the Rogue is sweet. But, for freeriding? No. Its a long travel trailbike at best.


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## offtheedge (Jul 6, 2004)

no, i'm sure Bender hates his Ellsworth... 

and if you want to start talking about frames that break, just start the list that Bender has destroyed........no Ellsworth yet.


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## SHAHEEB (Dec 4, 2004)

I had a buddy who was asking about getting one of these frames so I did a little ellsworth web browsing.

Its listed as a FR & AM rig on their site. also from the site...

"easy on the eyes, kind on the scale" 

Like eb said its prolly a bit too light for its purpose, no one can say its gonna break, but it seems theres a slight bit higher risk riding one of their designs for 
'real FR/DH'


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## brittmtb (Jan 11, 2005)

My friend broke 2 Dares and a Joker, and they didn't just crack, they completely snapped. He's lucky he didn't get hurt. Ellsworth's are expensive and that is a lot of money to put into something that can easily break in comparision with other frames out there.


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## offtheedge (Jul 6, 2004)

brittmtb said:


> My friend broke 2 Dares and a Joker, and they didn't just crack, they completely snapped. He's lucky he didn't get hurt. Ellsworth's are expensive and that is a lot of money to put into something that can easily break in comparision with other frames out there.


he must be smooth


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## bwolmarans (May 25, 2005)

I know somebody who dirt jumps on a truth and hasn't broken it.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

I have not ridden a Rogue, but I have looked over the frame very closely. Having owned a 2000 joker and a 2001 dare [which I broke], I'm somewhat sensitive to ellsworths frame construction. I was not particularly pleased with the thickness of the tubing in the front triangle, the beefiness of the gussets at the headtube and bottom bracket junction, and I was very disappointed in the rear triangle; it looks like a cobbled up piece of sheet metal [compared to dares of a few years ago]. It was a pretty frame, and if you're a smooth rider and not abusive, it would probably be a nice ride. I enjoyed my dare bigtime. But I wouldn't buy an ellsworth again.


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## MT Road (Sep 26, 2004)

Not to sound harsh above, maybe it is a smoothness thing.. ha ha... Like I said no issues with either of mine, I ride in an all mountain type style (limited by no trails where I am at) but have had the bike at some pretty tough places and no issues, ballasnces on skinnies good, feels good on drops and jumps.

I only weigh 145 lbs so it may be fine for me.. 

C


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## ghashmi (Sep 25, 2005)

*Truth Jumps*



bwolmarans said:


> I know somebody who dirt jumps on a truth and hasn't broken it.


I'd like to see some photos of "somebody's" drops.

Just busting balls...


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## RogueRider (May 18, 2006)

I've been riding this bike for 14 months now. It's been to Rays MTB Park in Cleveland 5 times, Snowshoe, WV. 5 times, and a couple of other small resorts within 100 miles of Pittsburgh. Not to mention, the (almost) daily pounding of riding anything I can here in W. PA. This is my only bike, good or bad. It rides great on everything so far. Not one issue. You should see the looks I get on the Cross Country trails around here, it's hilarious!


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

offtheedge said:


> no, i'm sure Bender hates his Ellsworth...
> 
> and if you want to start talking about frames that break, just start the list that Bender has destroyed........no Ellsworth yet.


How would you know that?? Has he told you personally?
If he breakes one, he probably will just get a new one right away...


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

You dont let a buddy ride a Lesswoth my friend...


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## MudMuncher (Dec 16, 2006)

Couple of things:

1. Are Ellsworths decent bikes? Yes.
2. Are they worth the money? No.
3. Are there better bikes out there for the price? YES!!!!! MANY!
4. Is Tony Ellsworth a dickfaced asswhipe? YES!
5. Do you want to shovel a truck load of money into the pocket of said dickface? NO!


Better companies that come to mind:

Turner
Giant
Transition
Knolly
etc. etc.

They make great bikes AND take care of customers, esp. Turner.
Give your money to the guys who make the bike industry a better place, even if it does mean riding a frame that's 1 pound heavier and won't SNAP.


That pic of the snapped frame is scary! Even Walmart bikes don't snap like that!


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

you forgot versus!

edit:
woah!this is an old thread!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MT Road said:


> Man all of the haters, all frames can break


True, but some frames break more than others.


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## doubledecadefirehydrant (Jun 12, 2004)

offtheedge said:


> he must be smooth


my thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:


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## The Pork Chop Express (Nov 13, 2006)

*I think his original question was would a Rogue work.*

I don't think it was "how much do you hate Ellsworth" So unless you own an Ellsworth or have spent a real amount of time on one, you should keep to opinions that you've had enough experience to make.

So to answer your question, I can't speak to the actual Rogue as I have a Moment, but it has held up to some pretty good abuse for the last 3 years and is still going strong. I've raced in a few downhill races with more pedal friendly courses, down drops to flat as big as six feet and done drops to tranny's on it up to about 8 feet. So if my Ells trailbike can do this, I would assume their dedicated freeride bike can do much more.

That's my two cents.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

free-rider_down-hiller said:


> Simple.....
> Its an ellsworth so no its not strong enough.......


Its good to see that you are so open-minded


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## bcjoker04 (Feb 27, 2004)

LOL, I think the great Ellsworth debate is hilarious... So many haters, many of whom have never owned an Ellsworth or who openly admit they can't afford them and thereby they must be overpriced. Look, any time you participate in leading edge technology you are going to take a higher risk of things not being 100% reliable. A friend of mine just paid almost 50k for the new 3 serious hardtop-convertible BMW. It's been in the shop every week for the 3 months she’s owned it. AND, it's a freaking sick car! She could have purchased a Camry and it probably would have worked with no issues for the next 20 years. Do I need to continue this analogy? BTW, BMW CS is terrible too. None of this is an excuse for Tony E., I think his company probably does have or had some issues, however, he also makes some of the absolute best mountain bikes available. They perform like nothing else and for those of use who spend thousands of dollars to eliminate 1 or 2 more pounds, well, his bikes are the lightest too. I have no doubt there are more capable DH and FR bikes out there, but not that weight 32 pounds and can be ridden 50 miles cross country just as well as they can fly downhill. Everything is a give and take guys. With that said, if your Ellsworth frame breaks, in accordance with Ellsworth's warranty, it should be replaced in a fast and hassle free fashion, no excuses for that! One important factor is that Ellsworth does quickly improve their product to be the best. The first generations of Joker’s were garbage. I happen to have the very last version, 2004 Ellsworth Joker DH version with the 1.5” HT set up for 7” of travel with the Romic D rear shock and Sherman Breakout front fork. I have yet to ride a bike that performs better, and I have ridden most of what’s considered the best, including the awesome new freeride bikes by Transition. Almost 4 years of flawless and beautiful performance. I even did my first 12-hour on it a couple weeks ago. I’m a big guy, too. I would suggest actually riding any bike you consider purchasing before doing so and buy the one that fits you, your riding style and your budget the best. If you want to ride what’s marginally the best and lightest, be prepared to pay the price. Go abuse a full carbon Trek Fuel like most people do an Ellsworth and see how that works out for you.


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## Coley (Nov 4, 2006)

my dad has cracked 2 Id frames but ellsworth replaced both for free, what do you mean they dont stand behind it? ya he was pretty tough on it, but they were awesome about the warrenties


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

bcjoker04 said:


> LOL, I think the great Ellsworth debate is hilarious...


You know what's really hilarious...when someone rekindles a debate on a year-old thread.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

ok guys listen up: this is the way the WORLD works, not even just bikes. but i'll talk about bikes and keep it to "the rogue" being that this is a downhill forum. 

Every frame has an intended purpous. That doesn't mean you can't stray outside of that purpose, it just means that within that purpose, thats where that bike will truely shine. If you want a hardcore huck bike, you don't buy yourself an XC bike, and vice versa. 

For those of you who have actually ridden downhill or freeride, you'll notice you hit some pretty varied terrain. Thats what makes it so fun, is having so much versitility. you want to go fast through this rock garden here, you want to do a skinny there, you want to do a drop, etc etc. Some bikes are more suited to taking "abuse" than others. Some riders are more "abuseful" than others. Somebody who is doing some smooth downhill courses with some techy sections and a few smaller jumps that pedals back up to the top will be calling their riding "downhill" or "freeride." likewise, people that like going as fast as they possibly can into a rock garden and hoping their bike will carry them to the other side and doing massive drops and jumps will be calling their riding style "downhill" or "freeride" 

Its common sense to know that some frames are suited better for different types of downhill and freeride. Unless I have a pretty huge cash flow, I'm not gonna want to be buying 8 different frames a year because i'm a huck nasty rider who likes light bikes. Likewise, it makes no sense to get a 13lb frame if what you're doing could easily be serviced by an 8 lb frame. 

Usually a bike breaking is because its being used outside of its intended purpose - a rider is a hack and super abusive, or one of a gazillion other reasons. usually it comes down to it being used outside of its intended purpose - it doesn't take a genius to tell you that an 8 pound frame is going to fatigue faster than a 13 pound frame, or that the tubing wont be as thick and strong, and a whole host of other things. 

that said, ellsworth makes an amazing bike. Riding the rogue was probably one of my highlight experiences i've had biking, it felt absolutely amazing. I wasn't real impressed with T. Ellsworth, but who cares, i'm not gonna be riding with him, i'm gonna be riding his bike. 

For the record, i'm about to (after much flip flopping) order my glory. I decided i wanted to do more hucks and be rougher on my bike, so I (and this is key) didn't get a bike that wasn't suited for it.


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

PCinSC said:


> You know what's really hilarious...when someone rekindles a debate on a year-old thread.


what's even more hilarious - when the discussion in said revived thread starts all over again because people still don't get it

by the way, I've always wondered how things like this happen on message board. do people really use the forum search to dig up threads like this? WHY??


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## primefocus (Feb 11, 2007)

it has to be done.

w00t!


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

primefocus said:


> it has to be done.
> 
> w00t!


if you're gonna resurrect a 2 year old thread, at least add something worthwhile.


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## primefocus (Feb 11, 2007)

your right. here's a recipe for a really good dish my girlfriend makes. Thanks. 

INGREDIENTS :
6 skinless, boneless chicken breast halves - diced 
1 (10.75 ounce) can condensed cream of chicken soup 
1 (8 ounce) container sour cream 
2 tablespoons dry sherry 
salt and pepper to taste 
1 (are you actually reading this?)
8 ounces buttery round crackers, crushed 
1 1/2 tablespoons poppy seeds 
1/2 cup butter, melted 


DIRECTIONS
Preheat to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). 
Place the diced chicken breasts on the bottom of a 9x13 inch baking dish sprayed with a nonstick cooking spray. In a bowl combine the soup, sour cream and sherry. Pour or spoon mixture over the chicken. Sprinkle salt and pepper on top. 
Mix the poppy seeds and crushed crackers and sprinkle mixture over the chicken, salt and pepper. Still reading? Impressive Sir. Drizzle the melted butter or margarine over the cracker/poppyseed layer and bake covered in the preheated oven for 30 to 45 minutes (take cover off for the last 5 minutes). Let stand a few minutes before servings.


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## bcjoker04 (Feb 27, 2004)

Since you've resurrected this post and caused me to log on for apparently no good reason, I'll at least throw in an update. Built and ridden since December of 2003, after thousands of miles my Ellsworth Joker is still the best bike I've ever thrown a leg over. Never one problem with the frame. I race cross country and super D with it and I pedal for hours and hours each weekend on it. I love this bike. Here is a recent photo...


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

primefocus said:


> your right. here's a recipe for a really good dish my girlfriend makes. Thanks.


better than 80% of the other posts on the forum.

...will try this recipe sometime this week ;-)



bcjoker04 said:


> ...after thousands of miles my Ellsworth Joker is still the best bike I've ever thrown a leg over.


clean looking bike. i'm sure it is a great ride for you, but i have to ask, how many other bikes have you tried besides this one? just trying to understand what so special about a bike that the majority believe is crap.


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## bcjoker04 (Feb 27, 2004)

brillantesdv said:


> better than 80% of the other posts on the forum.
> 
> ...will try this recipe sometime this week ;-)
> 
> clean looking bike. i'm sure it is a great ride for you, but i have to ask, how many other bikes have you tried besides this one? just trying to understand what so special about a bike that the majority believe is crap.


Fair question. First of all, I'm not on here trying to sell Ellsworth frames; just throwing in my experience with one particular model. It should also be noted that the 2004 Ellsworth Joker was substantially different than its previous model years with a completely new rear swing arm design (since the old one would break often), 1.5 head tube, etc. And according to Ellsworth, there are only a handful of this model year that were sold. The previous model Joker really was a POS. (Yes, I've ridden it)

How many bikes have I tried? I worked for years as a bike tech and sales person; I use to sell Giant, Rocky Mountain, KHS, DB, Mongoose, and Ellsworth. I have been riding all my life; I belong to a club of over 450 that I ride with weekly. I go to inner bike and dirt demo ever year and I've test ridden a decent share of bikes. My buddies ride Santa Cruz, Titus, Turner, Transition, Giant, etc. and I've ridden most of those too.

In reviewing a bike, it really is pretty critical to only focus on the specific model and year. Most of what people like, feel, experience when riding a bike has to do with the components, tires and suspension setup anyways. I love my Ellsworth, specifically, my 2004 Joker. In addition to climbing like a mountain goat, soaking up EVERYTHING, allowing me to keep my bones in tact when I haphazardly fall out of the sky and land somewhere I shouldn't have, etc. it's also a beautiful bike that attracts attention, questions and compliments like you wouldn't believe.

And by the way, with respect, "the majority" doesn't think this bike is crap. I run into Ellsworth owners ever weekend and I have yet to meet one that doesn't like their bike. This post and some like it are a captive audience of people who may have had a bad experience with an Ellsworth and many more who simply like to justify their purchase decisions, lack of funds, or maybe they're just bored. It's all good. I just like go mountain biking.


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

I had a friend who rode an Ellsworth Id for over about 4 or 5 years. Never changed a pivot, never changed a bearing, never greased anything. Just rode the crud out of it. And when he sold it, it was still like brand new.

I think Ellsworth is a total hit-or-miss company. You either get the best bike you've ever ridden, with quality for a decade, or a big steaming pile of cow dung.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Prettym1k3 said:


> I think Ellsworth is a total hit-or-miss company. You either get the best bike you've ever ridden, with quality for a decade, or a big steaming pile of cow dung.


I think Ellsworth bikes LOOK pimp but they aren't anything revolutionary. If I'm going to be paying top dollar for that, I don't want it to be with a company that has a "hit or miss" reputation, least of all on a freeride/downhill bike. When you're pushing it to the limit the last thing you want to worry about is grenading your frame and going down with it.


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

Jim311 said:


> I think Ellsworth bikes LOOK pimp but they aren't anything revolutionary. If I'm going to be paying top dollar for that, I don't want it to be with a company that has a "hit or miss" reputation, least of all on a freeride/downhill bike. When you're pushing it to the limit the last thing you want to worry about is grenading your frame and going down with it.


I couldn't agree more. You can basically get the same bike, (ie. Kona) for about 1/2 the price. Ellsworth bikes are super over priced considering they have a linkage that is 10 years old.

But, they are light weight, and American made.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Prettym1k3 said:


> I couldn't agree more. You can basically get the same bike, (ie. Kona) for about 1/2 the price. Ellsworth bikes are super over priced considering they have a linkage that is 10 years old.
> 
> But, they are light weight, and American made.


Yup, plenty of four bar Konas, and Konas has a good reputation. They take care of their customers, and their parts are much more widely available. My Kikapu was a warranty replacement that was almost 2 years out of warranty. Kona hooked it up anyway. I also ride an 05 Coiler. I expect to break before it will. I guess I'm a bit biased in that regard. Ellsworth may be quality bikes, but there are plenty of OTHER quality bikes that cost less. The value just isn't there. If value isn't an issue to you, maybe Ellsworth is the brand for you.


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## Rogue Rider x (Mar 8, 2008)

*Lol nice new thread...*

Here's a Rogue in action. It'll handle your freeridin' just fine...


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## Ironchefjon (Mar 23, 2007)

bcjoker04 said:


> LOL, I think the great Ellsworth debate is hilarious... So many haters, many of whom have never owned an Ellsworth or who openly admit they can't afford them and thereby they must be overpriced. Look, any time you participate in leading edge technology you are going to take a higher risk of things not being 100% reliable. A friend of mine just paid almost 50k for the new 3 serious hardtop-convertible BMW. It's been in the shop every week for the 3 months she's owned it. AND, it's a freaking sick car! She could have purchased a Camry and it probably would have worked with no issues for the next 20 years. Do I need to continue this analogy? BTW, BMW CS is terrible too. None of this is an excuse for Tony E., I think his company probably does have or had some issues, however, he also makes some of the absolute best mountain bikes available. They perform like nothing else and for those of use who spend thousands of dollars to eliminate 1 or 2 more pounds, well, his bikes are the lightest too. I have no doubt there are more capable DH and FR bikes out there, but not that weight 32 pounds and can be ridden 50 miles cross country just as well as they can fly downhill. Everything is a give and take guys. With that said, if your Ellsworth frame breaks, in accordance with Ellsworth's warranty, it should be replaced in a fast and hassle free fashion, no excuses for that! One important factor is that Ellsworth does quickly improve their product to be the best. The first generations of Joker's were garbage. I happen to have the very last version, 2004 Ellsworth Joker DH version with the 1.5" HT set up for 7" of travel with the Romic D rear shock and Sherman Breakout front fork. I have yet to ride a bike that performs better, and I have ridden most of what's considered the best, including the awesome new freeride bikes by Transition. Almost 4 years of flawless and beautiful performance. I even did my first 12-hour on it a couple weeks ago. I'm a big guy, too. I would suggest actually riding any bike you consider purchasing before doing so and buy the one that fits you, your riding style and your budget the best. If you want to ride what's marginally the best and lightest, be prepared to pay the price. Go abuse a full carbon Trek Fuel like most people do an Ellsworth and see how that works out for you.


That doesn't mean its ok to sell a product that breaks easily...


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## hubertje (Nov 20, 2007)

Since we're recycling old threads, I can say my rogue's suspension (Push shock) amazed me.
Frame (2008) has seen a lot of riding in the last year (as you can tell from it's paint), and is still working great.
I recently bought it second-hand, and I only did two weekends of rather-not-abusive DH with it so far, so I hope it doesn't fall apart. There is cracking sound now, but the headset is dead, so I assume that's where it comes from.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

hubertje said:


> Since we're recycling old threads, I can say my rogue's suspension (Push shock) amazed me.
> Frame (2008) has seen a lot of riding in the last year (as you can tell from it's paint), and is still working great.
> I recently bought it second-hand, and I only did two weekends of rather-not-abusive DH with it so far, so I hope it doesn't fall apart. There is cracking sound now, but the headset is dead, so I assume that's where it comes from.


Looks like your front rotor might be too small... Hard to tell from the pictures, but it seems like the pad does not make full contact.


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## hubertje (Nov 20, 2007)

On the pictures, you could be right. But no, no problems there. Perfect size, takes the whole braking pad.


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