# Armed commuters? What heat are u packing?



## 0010 0110 (Sep 20, 2011)

I been down some sketchy neighborhoods for short cuts but i feel one of these day that short cut may be very short if u know what i mean.

Ive recently got a big ass dog let loose on me by some punk that thought it would be funny for his dog to chase me down the street:yikes:. and some other guy tried to get me to dismount my bike. not sure if he wanted to steal it from me or not but i wasn't about to find out

so I have decided to carry 2 pocket knifes one in my pocket and the other in my back pack for re-enforcement's. but i was thinking instead of using a cable to lock my bike up. i should buy a chain with a big padlock, that way i can have some striking distance between me and the threat...Ive thought about my pistol (legal to have open carry in my state) but i cant carry that to campus =(

I was wondering if u guys carry some protection for such events..streets are crazy


----------



## H3LlIoN (Jul 30, 2008)

I always pack a knife on the inside of my waist band, and frequently ride with my hammerless SP-101, when necessary. I maintain a valid CWP in my state.


----------



## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

CRKT Triumph. It's a tool. I would recommend a stun gun or Kimber's high velocity pepper spray. A chain lock isn't that effective at fending off an attacker. A U-lock works better. Anything they can take away from you can be used against you so your best bet is to incapacitate.


----------



## 0010 0110 (Sep 20, 2011)

Schmucker said:


> CRKT Triumph. It's a tool. I would recommend a stun gun or Kimber's high velocity pepper spray. A chain lock isn't that effective at fending off an attacker. A U-lock works better. Anything they can take away from you can be used against you so your best bet is to incapacitate.


A friend offered "Bear Spray" pepper spray for bears i believe. i like it has a nice range but idk how i can mount it so its accessable for quick use.


----------



## Tom93R1 (Jan 26, 2005)

I wonder if anybody makes a bike mount pepper spray... Haven't had many problems on the commute or my mtb rides, but if I am on a road ride crossing reservation land there are regularly big dogs that like to chase bikes. I could pack a gun but I don't think it would be that comfortable in the wast band of my cycle shorts.


----------



## H3LlIoN (Jul 30, 2008)

Tom93R1 said:


> I could pack a gun but I don't think it would be that comfortable in the wast band of my cycle shorts.


Model 23 Jogger Concealment Gun Holster

Safepacker Runner's Pack: Tactical Gear, Tactical Equipment, Duty Belts, Slings, USA

Kind of cumbersome though. The keltecs with the belt clip are small and comfortable, but I find them to be terribly inaccurate, and they do a number on my wrist. The problem with any IWB carry with cycle shorts is going to be printing. I'd think anything would print BAD.


----------



## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Pepper Spray*

and the only time i used it was on a racoon. Otherwise i redirect and divert.


----------



## Tom93R1 (Jan 26, 2005)

Is that a gun in your bike shorts or are you just happy to see me?

The other reason I don't carry on my bike or running for that matter is the extreme summer temperatures here in AZ. That jogger holster might be nice to use in most locations but in Phoenix when it's 110 out I really need all the surface area I can get for sweat to evaporate and not soak my gun with salt. When not cycling I normally carry a S&W 340sc with an IWB holster but on really hot days even just a few minutes outside just walking to car, store, etc it can really get soaked. Don't think I will carry on the bike unless I can get a bicycle mount holster.


----------



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I've just started to look at how to carry a knife in an accessible spot with recent reports of mountian lions on my route and on the local trails. 
I commuted in LA county for a while, and there were dangerous neighborhoods, but I was able to just re-route around them if they felt too sketchy.


----------



## ConfederateLawyer (Jun 3, 2011)

Glock 19 in a Blade-Tech IWB on my right hip; spare mag on my left hip. A pair of Spyderco Enduras--one clipped in my front waistband at the appendix position, one clipped into my front pocket.

Pepper spray is good stuff, but I'll stick to solid projectiles. They are more reliably incapacitating. 

I've often contemplated a bike-mounted holster, but eventually always come back to the conclusion that it just isn't a good idea. When crazy stuff happens, you may need to suddenly dismount and scramble. So I would rather have my pistol attached directly to me. 

For concealment, I usually just wear camp shirts and shift the gun slightly forward (from about the 3:30 position to 3:00). That works for my area. If I was carrying someplace where the legal environment was less accommodating of my choice in tools, I would have to be more discreet. On those occasions when I am more concerned with being covert, I'll tuck in my shirt--leaving the gun on the outside--and then put on a Mountainsmith lumbar pack. The pack covers the gun entirely, but I can easily reach between the bag and my body to quickly access the gun. The only downside to that set-up is that the bag traps heat and the belt is uncomfortable for very long rides (3+ hours). And you don't want to go into any shops that will require you to check your bag.


----------



## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

jrm said:


> and the only time i used it was on a racoon. Otherwise i redirect and divert.


Was it a rabid raccoon or are they just unusually aggressive there?


----------



## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

I`ve been tempted to carry some kind of dog repelling spray on the bike, and was almost at the point of buying some at one time, but decided against it. The mind changer for me was trying to imagine deploying it: riding as fast as I could with a snarling beast in hot pursuit, take one had off the bars, remove canister from holster or mount, find the top, the button, then... take careful aim? fire blindly behind me? shoot the stuff all over myself while the dog laughs his head off? Meh, I`ll pass.

Related note- several years ago, when I was more interrested in guns, I got to reading about "cowboy action" events and they looked like a lot of fun. I have no horse (know nothing about them either), but I DID have a bicycle and a single action psitol, so I decided to put the two together for an attempt at mounted shooting. I hung a gallon paint can from a bush, strapped on the holster and heavy pistol, marched back, turned around and charged. Surprisingly, I was only able to get off one shot per pass. Not so surprisingly, after 6 passes there were still no holes in the paint can. In fact, I count myself lucky that I had no holes on my foot! (or hand, or eyeball, or spleen...) It was fun, but fairly pointless for this wannabe. I think I`ll just leave that stuff to Rooster Cogburn and Matt Dillon from now on!


----------



## thrasher_s (Oct 5, 2009)

ConfederateLawyer said:


> Glock 19 in a Blade-Tech IWB on my right hip; spare mag on my left hip. A pair of Spyderco Enduras--one clipped in my front waistband at the appendix position, one clipped into my front pocket.
> 
> Pepper spray is good stuff, but I'll stick to solid projectiles. They are more reliably incapacitating.


Where are you riding, Juarez?

"Bear Mace" is more effective at stopping a Grizzly than a .44 mag. It has a huge area of effect vs. requiring a kill shot, under extreme pressure. Shooting a pissed bear and NOT killing it just ups its adrenaline, making it more likely to kill you rather than just try to intimidate you into leaving.


----------



## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

well don't need it

im 5ft10 and 110kgs so most people take one look at me and don't even bother

i heard one junior i train got mugged scared the **** outta him

maybe just because of my size people think twice i have never had any problems plus any idiot who decides to stand in front of me when im going fast is going to have 19kg of bike plus my weight will prob get knocked out


----------



## ConfederateLawyer (Jun 3, 2011)

thrasher_s said:


> Where are you riding, Juarez?


Not even close. I'm in Palmer, Alaska, where there is virtually zero crime. But growing up on the southside of Atlanta, I developed a healthy distrust of my fellow man. I'd still prefer a .44 mag to bear spray when facing a charging grizzly, but my chosen tools are really tailored more for two-legged predators than the four-legged variety.

One day, just for kicks, I'm going to figure out a way to mount my AK alongside my fork so that I can roll through the woods Fallujah-style.


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Usually packing one of three different Kimber products: JPX Jet Protector, Pepperblaster II, or good ’ol “I’m in a hurry” Solo Carry.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I often carry a telescopic baton in my camel pack, and a hunting folding knife on my belt. Knife is for on riding situation, while the baton is for when I take a break and people are lurking a but too much. I never had to use any, even if I'm trained at martial art, and I guess that simply using my head to decide I should go rest somewhere else instead of trying to find trouble is a better way.

But I still prefer a baton to a knife or gun, since I can incapacitate and be less likely to severely arm or kill someone and then less likely to get hurt or killed myself... A knife can be really nasty for both opponents and if you take a gun out at someone and he has a gun too, you're more likely to get shot first, since he knows exactly how far he want to go and you don't.

Just be sure to know how to use your weapon safely and quickly and at first how to use your own body to fight.

I'm not a big guy, so in my case, a telescopic baton can be very useful to poke someone away if they get too sketchy. Then disarm and neutralize. But I'm proud to said I never had to use any form of violence to resolve my conflict. And I hope it last.

David


----------



## rufio (Jul 3, 2011)

I just do my best to keep myself out of dangerous areas. If I do need to drive through them I just haul and don't really stop for anyone. I do not own a gun or anything like that, but if necessary I could rely on unleashing the Dragon Kick. I haven't had to use it, but you never know.


----------



## ConfederateLawyer (Jun 3, 2011)

David C said:


> A knife can be really nasty for both opponents and if you take a gun out at someone and he has a gun too, you're more likely to get shot first, since he knows exactly how far he want to go and you don't.


A knife is just as fearsome a tool as a gun when you are within arm's reach. The benefit of a gun is that it allows you to work at a greater distance. The baton you mention also allows you to work at a range slightly greater than arm's reach--thereby staying further away from the bad guy. With _any _of these tools, you shouldn't be flashing them around. If you need to use them, use them. But don't threaten or bluff. If a genuine bad guy attacks you, he should feel your blade before he sees it.

I interpreted the original post as dealing with actual bad guys rather than just some ankle-biting dogs. Most discussions of safety or "arming" one's self, in the MTBR forum, deal more with dogs than with humans. But commuters, as opposed to recreational cyclists, are going about their everday lives. We don't get to choose where we ride and stick to ideal bike paths. We have to get to work, and the grocery store, and all the other places that living in the modern world entails. Sometimes that means going places that may subject us to some kind of danger. One of the benefits of an automobile is the security that it offers. A car driver is enveloped in a steel box with lockable doors. A cyclist is exposed to the world.

To ride safely (and live safely), the greatest defensive mechanism we all have is our own awareness. If you can sneak up on a man with a .45 on his hip, you can kill him. If you can't get near a fellow before he flies away, it doesn't matter what weapons he does or doesn't have--you can't catch him. So lesson number one: Be aware. Watch your environment. Listen. Smell.

Lesson two: listen to your instincts. If some guy at the next corner gives you a bad feeling, then act on that feeling. Don't be afraid of offending someone. Turn before you get there. Heck--turn around and do a full 180 if you have to. Being on a bike gives you options that a driver doesn't have. You can turn virtually anywhere. You can cut through yards and run down sidewalks. You can pedal through a building. If you suspect trouble, go the other way.

Flashlights and cell phones are good things to have. In our touchy-feely new world, lots of people will tell you that a cell phone is all you need. Just call 911 and wait for the cavalry, they'll say. I assert that those people are idiots. Cops are historians. They show up after the fact and write a report about what happened. They may want to save the world, but the odds are astronomically low that a policeman will be nearby when you need him. So plan for your own survival. Run if you can, but be prepared to fight if you can't.

I personally choose to prepare for such possibilities to an extent that most others will not. A gun is fairly cheap insurance. It doesn't cost much. It doesn't weigh much. I'll probably (hopefully) never need it. But just like seat belts, helmets, and life insurance, I have it just in case things don't go well some day. I don't expect many people to decide to bike with a gun. But everyone can learn to pay better attention to their surroundings, and to attune themselves to the little voice in their mind that warns them about something ahead.

So ride safe. Pay attention. And listen to your spidey senses.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

my grocery-getter...


----------



## Dalton (Jun 30, 2004)

I hadn't thought of arming myself until I started thinking about a job in Detroit. Now I have been thinking more and more about that concealed carry permit. I dunno though, I carry a spyderco delica and a Surefire 6PD, so I have some tools, but traveling through some of the areas I would have to pass through, I may feel more comfortable carrying at least what all the other guys have. Guess I still have some time to think on it.


----------



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

highdelll said:


> my grocery-getter...


:thumbsup::eekster::rockon:


----------



## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Really agressive*

and it wouldn't surprise me if they were rabid



mtbxplorer said:


> Was it a rabid raccoon or are they just unusually aggressive there?


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

highdelll said:


> my grocery-getter...


I don't see any extra amo clip... Better plan on it too


----------



## mtnbici (Nov 10, 2008)

David C said:


> ... if you take a gun out at someone and he has a gun too, you're more likely to get shot first, since he knows exactly how far he want to go and you don't.


An armed person must have already decided how far he will go with a weapon (deadly or not) to defend himself before a confrontation is encountered. If a person hasn't figured this out before an "incident" happens, then that person is already far behind the curve and at a worse disadvantage.

Planning is everything.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jrm said:


> and it wouldn't surprise me if they were rabid


There are a couple manifestations of rabies. One of which involves excessive aggression. Another results in overly "friendly" encounters. I think it depends on which part of the brain the virus is affecting. Either way, under most circumstances, a raccoon will just run away.

If there were youngins around, I could see extreme aggression out of a mama **** who didn't want you around. I'd also see that if you had it cornered. But IME, raccoons will not normally just come after you. I've worked with enough hands-on to see how they react around people. They will commonly watch you with intensity and then suddenly lash out if you get too close. Very rarely do you run across a snarling ball of fur that lets you know it's pissed long before you get very close to it. Those are usually mamas with babies or sick.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

mtnbici said:


> An armed person must have already decided how far he will go with a weapon (deadly or not) to defend himself before a confrontation is encountered. If a person hasn't figured this out before an "incident" happens, then that person is already far behind the curve and at a worse disadvantage.
> 
> Planning is everything.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


So if you carry a gun, it mean you plan to kill or shoot someone at the first sign of hostility ?

That's the danger of a gun. All or nothing. And shooting someone is never easy to get away with...

David


----------



## mtnbici (Nov 10, 2008)

David C said:


> So if you carry a gun, it mean you plan to kill or shoot someone at the first sign of hostility ?
> 
> That's the danger of a gun. All or nothing. And shooting someone is never easy to get away with...
> 
> David


That's not what I was implying, read what I wrote again. :thumbsup:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

mtnbici said:


> That's not what I was implying, read what I wrote again. :thumbsup:


I know exactly what you meant. I just exposed another side of the problem.

David


----------



## mtnbici (Nov 10, 2008)

highdelll said:


> my grocery-getter...


Heh, I going to bet that your groceries are really cheap if you rode that thing into a store.


----------



## ConfederateLawyer (Jun 3, 2011)

I think that mtnbici's comment holds a lot of wisdom. You need to answer the moral dilemmas in advance because you won't have time to ponder philosophical quandaries when an elephant is charging. There are some people who declare that they could 'just never shoot someone,' regardless of how they were being attacked. It's usually 20-year-old female sociology students who espouse such ideas. Find them ten years later and ask what they would do if someone was going to hurt their child, and you'll likely get a different response. But if someone is of the opinion that they could 'just never shoot someone' then they definitely should not carry a gun. 

The willingness to use lethal force in general, though, doesn't mean that it is the default reaction in any given scenario. Having a gun gives you another option. You still have the option to run away, avoid the problem, or talk your way out of trouble--the same as you would if unarmed (though perhaps with greater confidence). Years ago, there was an interesting web-based game on rec.guns called The Red Zone. It presented a series of hypothetical scenarios in which the player was to provide his hypothetical response. If you shot a bad guy too soon, you got demerits. If you shot a good guy, you went to jail. If you didn't shoot a bad guy soon enough, you got killed. It was a pretty good method of thinking about the various possibilities that could present themselves. By asking these questions in advance--and from the comfort of your living room--you could take the time to ponder the possibilities. That way you had already considered such things when called upon the make those decisions in the heat of the moment. Alas, The Red Zone is no more. But for any who are interested, you can find a suitable alternative in the Tactical Scenarios thread at the WarriorTalk forum. 

Not everyone will take the time to put much thought into these things. But if you are going to arm yourself in defense--with any tool: gun, knife, or padlock on a chain--then it would be wise to consider such things before you are in the middle of the fire.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

David C said:


> I don't see any extra amo clip... Better plan on it too


yeah, just tryin to find a good pannier...


----------



## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

Glock .40.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

ConfederateLawyer said:


> Not everyone will take the time to put much thought into these things. But if you are going to arm yourself in defense--with any tool: gun, knife, or padlock on a chain--then it would be wise to consider such things before you are in the middle of the fire.


You say some valid points.
The couple/three times in the past that I have had a gun pulled on me, I was also carrying.
Tho I am pretty well accustomed to firearms ( have a Marksman ribbons from the USN + I OWNED a .22 @ 11 Y.O. that I shot whenever I chose), I made alternate decisions to get the fcuk out of the situations instead of drawing.- This was 'instinctual' to me - flight was better than fight.
Those situations were pretty scary in hindsight...but I think I reacted 'correctly'.

Funny enough though, the one time I was actually shot at, I was not carrying - but the again, I did not even know I was shot at until a day later....funny 

Oh yeah, what was my point?
You better be WELL experienced if you plan on packing one around...
If you just go down to the gun store and and get a piece and somehow find a 'loophole' for a CCW, you are in for a world of false security - and I hope you are not the one who pulls the trig when alternatives were available - providing you could even hit a moving 1'x'2' mass from 10' and greater and not shlt your pants :thumbsup:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

highdelll said:


> You say some valid points.
> The couple/three times in the past that I have had a gun pulled on me, I was also carrying.
> Tho I am pretty well accustomed to firearms ( have a Marksman ribbons from the USN + I OWNED a .22 @ 11 Y.O. that I shot whenever I chose), I made alternate decisions to get the fcuk out of the situations instead of drawing.- This was 'instinctual' to me - flight was better than fight.
> Those situations were pretty scary in hindsight...but I think I reacted 'correctly'.
> ...


You guys live dangerous 

I never had a gun pointed at me, I don't carry (illegal here) and don't own a gun. I know how to use guns and how to shoot, but I think that I I pulled a gun at someone already pointing a gun at me, I have lot more chance to get shot in the first place then simply play it nicely. And I ain't gonna shoot someone. Unless it's a matter of life or death, in which case I would propably not hesitate at blowing up a arm or a knee. Movies are movies. Real life is not that easy. And killing just for "safety" purpose isn't my thing. If I were to carry a gun, a slick .22 LR with good mag capacity would be my weapon of choice. Light, accurate, cheap and less to worry about hazardous shot. And you can easily take down someone without killing or severe injuries. But again, I don't plan on carrying a gun. You may feel safer a think you're cool, but just be smart and stay ahead of trouble. Look for the signs and look twice before taking a decision. And a good martial art training can help a lot more then just carrying a gun...

David


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

^^^, No, don't live dangerous - just have more doooshbags willing to try to rob you because they have a pistol.


----------



## gibbons (Oct 23, 2011)

If I did pack, it would be for the skunks on the bike path. Scared the heck out of my wife!


----------



## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*No youngins*



NateHawk said:


> There are a couple manifestations of rabies. One of which involves excessive aggression. Another results in overly "friendly" encounters. I think it depends on which part of the brain the virus is affecting. Either way, under most circumstances, a raccoon will just run away.
> 
> If there were youngins around, I could see extreme aggression out of a mama **** who didn't want you around. I'd also see that if you had it cornered. But IME, raccoons will not normally just come after you. I've worked with enough hands-on to see how they react around people. They will commonly watch you with intensity and then suddenly lash out if you get too close. Very rarely do you run across a snarling ball of fur that lets you know it's pissed long before you get very close to it. Those are usually mamas with babies or sick.


Just a pair of adults. One of which stood its ground, stood up and hissed @ me. I treated this racoon no different then ive treated other animals ive encountered. We have quite a population of racoons and skunks for a urban area and as ive mentioned the racoons are really aggressive.


----------



## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

I don't carry when I commute although I am legal to do so. I don't stop anywhere.

Bikepacking is a different story. Glock 20... sewed a holster into my frame bag.


----------



## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

You guys are hilarious. I have never, ever felt threatened by anything on my bike, two or four legs. What I don't need on my person is more weight. 

Maybe you need to re-evaluate where you live.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I have considered carrying a baton as it can be strapped to the frame like a bike pump for quick accessability and are less lethal than guns and knives but they are illegal to carry concealed here in Oregon without a permit.

Rodar, your story reminds me of the early Texas Rangers who also struggled to learn how to shoot while riding.


----------



## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

I don't go anywhere without this guy:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Sizzler said:


> I have considered carrying a baton as it can be strapped to the frame like a bike pump for quick accessability and are less lethal than guns and knives but they are illegal to carry concealed here in Oregon without a permit.


It's illegal here to just carry it, but if they don't see it, they don't know it.

And if they have to see it, it would have been used for legitimate defense, so it could smooth out things.

But the idea of strapping it to the frame looks interesting. But IMO I don't think I would need to hammer down hipsters while riding, although it could be handy for those 10" bar fixie hipster who cut every one in traffic lanes


----------



## johnlh (Aug 16, 2008)

David C said:


> It's illegal here to just carry it, but if they don't see it, they don't know it.
> 
> And if they have to see it, it would have been used for legitimate defense, so it could smooth out things.
> 
> But the idea of strapping it to the frame looks interesting. But IMO I don't think I would need to hammer down hipsters while riding, although it could be handy for those 10" bar fixie hipster who cut every one in traffic lanes


At this point, just carry a u-lock, as it would serve two purposes.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

johnlh said:


> At this point, just carry a u-lock, as it would serve two purposes.


To lock their front wheel to their frame after beating up their face ? Looks like a good idea :thumbsup:


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

David C said:


> But the idea of strapping it to the frame looks interesting.


This conversation got me all jazzed about the baton idea, so I decided to pick one up on my ride home. It was pretty inexpensive, but feels like it could inflict serious pain, and fits perfectly in a pump holder! Unfortunately, after reading state laws more closely, it appears that it would be a felony to have it at my work, and most public places for that matter, so it might be relegated to fending off crocodiles, mountain lions and such while mountain biking.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Sizzler said:


> This conversation got me all jazzed about the baton idea, so I decided to pick one up on my ride home. It was pretty inexpensive, but feels like it could inflict serious pain, and fits perfectly in a pump holder! Unfortunately, after reading state laws more closely, it appears that it would be a felony to have it at my work, and most public places for that matter, so it might be relegated to fending off crocodiles and mountain lions while mountain biking.


That's the way to go 

Nothing's better then 24" of cold steel to prove your opponent wrong 

And it's light, stiff and fast. Pretty good combination for a close range weapon. Plus it's inexpensive, so it makes it an expandable piece of equipment if you really have to dig your way out.

Now you gotta learn how to use it. 

David


----------



## 0010 0110 (Sep 20, 2011)

this is a multi path i use when it gets late cuz its has street lights most of the way and i can avoid 5 miles of cycling next to cars at night. but every now and then **** happens like this. this is why i started the thread. Wanting to know what u guys use in a sticky situation.
Triviz incident shows need for caution - Las Cruces Sun-News


----------



## birdleg (Jan 3, 2010)

can't get right said:


> You guys are hilarious. I have never, ever felt threatened by anything on my bike, two or four legs. What I don't need on my person is more weight.
> 
> Maybe you need to re-evaluate where you live.


You obviously don't get out enough!


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

birdleg said:


> You obviously don't get out enough!


uhh??


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

I carry either a Springfield XD9SC or a Walther PPS .40 in custom Milt Sparks IWB and matching mag holders and a Kershaw Blur or Needs Work...

If I'm on the bike with riding shorts though I carry my Walther in a belly band...

For those that don't carry guns... This is why I do.

I live in Reading, Pa... Currently # 41 in the most dangerous cities as ranked by CQPress.
http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2010/City_crime_rate_2010-2011_hightolow.pdf

Also the #1 ranked city in the US for poverty!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/us/reading-pa-tops-list-poverty-list-census-shows.html?_r=1


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Eckstream1 said:


> ...
> To all the Anti Gun nuts...
> ..


This is why threads go downhill


----------



## Eckstream1 (Jul 27, 2011)

highdelll said:


> This is why threads go downhill


Fixed...


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Eckstream1 said:


> highdelll said:
> 
> 
> > This is why threads go downhill
> ...


what did you fix?


----------



## Anduril (Sep 7, 2009)

Those who pack heat while commuting to work . . . what do you do with your piece once you arrive? Keep it hidden?

I have a CC permit, but its usefulness is negated by the fact my company, like most larger ones, has a no-weapons policy and I'd be fired if I ever tried to carry to work and got caught. Even a weapon in the car in the parking lot is a firing offense if detected.

One other comment . . . my CC instructor could not stress enough - if you carry a gun, you MUST carry some type of non-lethal device like OC spray, and only escalate to deadly force after the non-lethal device failed to deter. Just his opinion of course, but it seemed like sound advice to keep you out of legal trouble for defending yourself. Of course it also depends on the state's laws and attitudes towards lethal force used in self-defense.


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Anduril said:


> Those who pack heat while commuting to work . . . what do you do with your piece once you arrive? Keep it hidden?
> 
> I have a CC permit, but its usefulness is negated by the fact my company, like most larger ones, has a no-weapons policy and I'd be fired if I ever tried to carry to work and got caught. Even a weapon in the car in the parking lot is a firing offense if detected.
> 
> One other comment . . . my CC instructor could not stress enough - if you carry a gun, you MUST carry some type of non-lethal device like OC spray, and only escalate to deadly force after the non-lethal device failed to deter. Just his opinion of course, but it seemed like sound advice to keep you out of legal trouble for defending yourself. Of course it also depends on the state's laws and attitudes towards lethal force used in self-defense.


For a baton or knife, it's easy to keep it at your belt if you're not wearing your shirt under your belt, but otherwise you're better let it into your pack or with your commute gearing. Cause I don't think you'll need it at work.

David


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

I carry a Keltec PF9 in an IWB rig, when I commute.


----------



## BeastRider (Oct 20, 2011)

A military grade pepper spray attached to a belt loop for fast access is a decent enough deterrent to keep MOST of those "bad people" away. Bike theft is, usually, a crime of convenience and criminals want the "ease" of theft. A little taste of the spray and that's usually enough to get them running while YOU pedal your ass off the other direction. Works GREAT on those dogs as well.....


----------



## Jonesy33 (Mar 18, 2008)

Jeez! Part of the reason I ride to and from work is to DE-STRESS, not expose myself to more stress/conflict etc.

I guess I've been spoiled by the places I've lived, and especially now in Germany, but I've never felt the need to be armed while I ride.


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

I think where people get off track, mentally, when discussing the "need" of carrying while on a bicycle is they seem to limit their scope of thinking to only include the time you're on the saddle.

For me, bicycling is no different than driving my car to work, or my motorcycle. And, in all of those choices I'm off the bike or out of the car sometimes too, at the bank or gas station, at work in the parking garage, or at work itself. In those environments, I will not get to choose when something bad happens or by whom. So, I carry the tools of the last dire extreme. I don't always enjoy doing so, sometimes it's a pain to deal with but I've experienced violent crime in my life and I'll never feel the terror of helplessness again.

Some people need to live it to understand, some people can just imagine, but being armed is just a tool of preparation, a mindset. It's no different than having a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit, even tho chances of injury or fire are slim also (statistically).


----------



## Trail Zombie (Nov 5, 2011)

Summer rides I always carry my Bear spray . I would use that for Bear , Moose, and if need be people. Last night I was caught with nothing on me when a black bear decided to come at me. My 150 lumen sure- fire light "scared" it off. I will not do that again though. I am thinking short barrel .44 and spray here on out.


----------



## ridemtn (Aug 25, 2009)

ConfederateLawyer said:


> Cops are historians. They show up after the fact and write a report about what happened.


true that


----------



## burmer_skark (Nov 23, 2004)

swingset said:


> I think where people get off track, mentally, when discussing the "need" of carrying while on a bicycle is they seem to limit their scope of thinking to only include the time you're on the saddle.
> 
> For me, bicycling is no different than driving my car to work, or my motorcycle. And, in all of those choices I'm off the bike or out of the car sometimes too, at the bank or gas station, at work in the parking garage, or at work itself. In those environments, I will not get to choose when something bad happens or by whom. So, I carry the tools of the last dire extreme. I don't always enjoy doing so, sometimes it's a pain to deal with but I've experienced violent crime in my life and I'll never feel the terror of helplessness again.
> 
> Some people need to live it to understand, some people can just imagine, but being armed is just a tool of preparation, a mindset. It's no different than having a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit, even tho chances of injury or fire are slim also (statistically).


Very well put. 
Also i notice all too often people that choose to carry get caught up in the GI Joe mentality. Gun here, knife there, three spare mags, ankle backup, baton, mace, grenades, M202, coordinates for artillery... most people dont commute through downtown Mogadishu. How many options of self defense does one need in daily life? 1? 2? 7 different levels?
I like options just as much as the next guy, but lets be realistic.
That being said, i think i am the only bike commuter that carries a disposable hammer mounted on my handlebars.

Then there is the question of legality we should all carefully consider. Let me offer a point of view that i dont hear all too often. 
For me, legality is a moot point. Let me explain why. 
I do not carry a gun as a fashion accessory. (I also live in California, so i ahem, dont carry a gun at all, ahem) If i were to ever pull my imaginary gun it would be one of the last choices i had available to avert death or serious injury for myself or someone i love. 
Escape from the situation is no longer an option.
Diffusing the situation is no longer an option.
By the time choice #1 and 2 are out the window i am solely concerned with protecting someones life, maybe my own. I am not thinking about what i had for dinner last week. I am not thinking about that vacation i took last summer. I am certainly not thinking about how this might look to a judge in the coming weeks if i make it through the threat that i am currently facing. 
Certainly if everything goes well after i pull my imaginary gun a law that is not on my side will cause some serious discomfort. Maybe expensive fines. Maybe even jail time. I might face community backlash. Acquaintances might choose to not associate with me any longer.
But one thing it will not do is bring a loved one back from the grave. It will not erase a life altering injury i may sustain at the hands of someone trying to hurt or kill me. Therefore it will not cloud my judgment in a life and death situation where i am being threatened.

"Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."


----------



## ldt593 (Nov 17, 2011)

You could also pour your pump full of lead. That would be concealed, and maybe even legal in the state of Oregon.


----------



## simpterfex (Nov 14, 2010)

Guns are heavy, I carry mostly in the summer because of bears. Why not look into a 22mag derringer for a lighter option?


----------



## M_S (Nov 18, 2007)

I've had a deranged man try to mug me while I commuted. A drunk man tried to run me over, then made a u-turn and tried again. I've been charged by a mountain lion on a trail while riding. I've seen lots of bears. And yet, I manage not to be a paranoid freak and don't carry a freaking gun while I ride. I do bring bear spray on backcountry rides and hikes. Some people need to take off the tinfoil hat, or at least move somewhere where they aren't an armed, jumpy threat to the rest of us.


----------



## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Anduril said:


> One other comment . . . my CC instructor could not stress enough - if you carry a gun, you MUST carry some type of non-lethal device like OC spray, and only escalate to deadly force after the non-lethal device failed to deter. Just his opinion of course, but it seemed like sound advice to keep you out of legal trouble for defending yourself. Of course it also depends on the state's laws and attitudes towards lethal force used in self-defense.


How many states actually have CC instructors and classes? Friends in South Carolina talk about classes they have to go through to get their CC permit and the classes outline every step you should go through before pulling a gun out.

Here in GA, its a quick background check and $20-30 and you're on your way.


----------



## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

I usually have a hatchet and small shovel strapped to the outside/back of my pack when I'm riding. Normally they're for whatever issues I might find on the trails on my daily commute so I can make short work of smaller fallen trees and such... but the hatchet is strapped in so I can whip it out in about 2 seconds if needed. For some reason people seem to stray away from axe-wielding bikers quicker than they would someone toting a knife or gun. Plus combined with the shovel and other trail gear, it doesn't seem out of place so I don't get hassled about it.


----------



## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

I don't carry anything. Have never felt the need, never been threatened, etc.

My wife has a carry permit and carries a Taser - it makes her feel safer, especially when she is out by herself. It's one of the consumer versions - you just fire it and forget it. In fact the instruction book basically says to fire it, drop it and get out of Dodge. The taser applies the hurt automatically. And if you cannot recover the unit, Taser gives you a new one for free.


----------



## Lone Desert Walker (Sep 15, 2011)

*I scold people*

If I see someone who looks violent I scold them and let them know that being violent is totally not OK. :nono:


----------



## Trail Zombie (Nov 5, 2011)

Well , first off. 90% of my rides are "back country" rides. I live in Alaska. Secondly, if wearing my tin foil hat keeps me safer. I will keep it on, thank you very much. As far as being an armed jumpy threat to others. I have escorted the non-tin foil crowd out of the area of a bear guarding its dead moose. They were happy for my shiny hat that day.


----------



## danattherock (Nov 11, 2006)

0010 0110 said:


> I was wondering if u guys carry some protection for such events..streets are crazy[/FONT]


Don't always feel the need, but when I do it is a Glock 27 in a Desanti small of the back holster. Basically, a small suede left handed hip holster I put in the small of my back, allowing the right thumb to engage the break snap. Works like a charm.

-Dan


----------



## Disc (Mar 10, 2010)

After reading these comments i can only say who would want to live in a society that allows guns to be carried around for protection, shows what sort of thinking and behaviour has been instilled into the citizens of America. No need to be afraid of terrorist harming America, their own citizens will do it themselves by running around with guns and killing each other off.


----------



## can't get right (May 15, 2005)

Disc said:


> After reading these comments i can only say who would want to live in a society that allows guns to be carried around for protection, shows what sort of thinking and behaviour has been instilled into the citizens of America. No need to be afraid of terrorist harming America, their own citizens will do it themselves by running around with guns and killing each other off.


This should revive the thread.


----------



## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

*Cyclist fatally shoots dog in Davie*

By Ihosvani Rodriguez, Sun Sentinel

11:00 p.m. EST, November 25, 2011
DAVIE-
Scooby, a Doberman pinscher in training to be a therapy dog, was shot and killed in his owner's front yard on Thanksgiving by a cyclist carrying a gun.

According to Davie police, the man who shot Scooby said the 2-year-old dog had attacked him. But the dog's owner, Dan Abou, said Scooby would have never harmed anyone.

"It's very alarming that someone would be riding a bike with a gun at 11 a.m. on Thanksgiving Day," Abou said on Friday. "That man came here looking for trouble. I still can't believe this."

Davie Police Capt. Dale Engle said that the incident remains under investigation and that the shooter has not been charged. The man's name was not available on Friday. Engle said the man had a permit for the weapon.

"He told us the dog attacked him and he feared for his life," said Engle. "The dog was not on a leash, but we are still looking at what exactly happened."

By ordinance in Broward County, dogs that are outdoors must remain under direct, physical control of a person using a leash, cord or chain or be kept behind a fence.

Abou said he was cleaning his garage when he heard a gunshot followed by a dog's whimper outside. He said he saw Scooby take a few steps and collapse.

"He gasped and he literally died in my arms," the owner said.

Abou, 24, acknowledged that his dog had been playing in the front yard without a leash while the family was preparing its Thanksgiving meal.

He said most of the residents in his Whispering Pines cul-de-sac neighborhood typically allow their dogs to roam free with no problems. He described his dog as a lovable and friendly pooch who was great with small children.

Abou adopted Scooby from the Doberman Rescue League of Broward in July. The group's president, Grace Brinkman, said the dog was in the initial stages of training to be a therapy dog at senior citizen centers.

The group had found Scooby roaming the streets and looking emaciated, said Brinkman.

"I can't believe he gets rescued from the streets of Miami-Dade only to be shot and killed in Davie," Abou said.

Thursday's incident was at least the second time this year in Broward that a resident shot and killed a unleashed dog.

In February, Fort Lauderdale resident George Doughty told police that his neighbor's dogs, Little Red, a pit bull, and Cleopatra, a Rottweiler, were loose and charged at him and his Rottweiler. Little Red died at the scene, and Cleopatra survived.

Doughty was not charged.

[email protected]; 954-356-4605.

Copyright © 2011, South Florida Sun-Sentinel


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

They sure tried to slant that to the dog-owners side...
"my dog never hurt anyone" is almost always the responce to a bite/mauling - not saying this IS the case - Just _sayin'_


----------



## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

I feel bad for the owner. But on the other hand I have had a couple of run-ins with dogs where I was seriously under attack and wish I was carrying somethng to defend myself. In the end, it's up to the owner to secure his dog. Agree with *highdell*, "the dog is friendly and never hurt anyone" is not a justification for an irresponsible dog owner. Bad situation for all sides.

*Disc* can I assume that you are not from the US?


----------



## Dad Man Walking (Sep 7, 2004)

highdelll said:


> They sure tried to slant that to the dog-owners side...
> "my dog never hurt anyone" is almost always the responce to a bite/mauling - not saying this IS the case - Just _sayin'_


+1 on this comment. I can't count the number of times I've been chased down by a dog where the owner was screaming at the dog to stop--which obviously does no good since the dog has engaged pursuit mode and won't respond to those commands. And I have heard owners apologetically state "he _*never *_does that" on those occasions when I am still around when they are retrieving their dog.

"Never" must be one of those numbers with magical properties...simultaneously equal to zero, but greater than or equal to one.

It's like dog quantum mechanics.

At any rate, it looks like regardless of how the article was slanted, the police appear to be handling it properly...owner created the situation by not restraining the dog, which the article states was a clear violation of the local ordinances. So tie goes to the rider at that point, since he was legally packing.

I'll also be a little less restrained and impartial than highdell--by thanking the unidentified rider in this story for dishing one out for the team.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

I carry a S&W 340 PD in 357, everywhere but in the shower. And yes, I do have a CCW permit


----------



## Spinnyspinspin (Aug 11, 2011)

I am a gun owner. I don't carry while I'm riding, simply because I haven't yet had an experience that made me feel like I needed to, but I am all for responsible gun ownership. I'm also not a very big guy. I'm a little over 6' and weigh in at 145 soaking wet. 

I really can't think of a situation where I would need a gun to subdue a DOG. A whole pack maybe, but not a lone canine in a suburban neighborhood. It's not like the guy was all alone in the wilderness with no one to assist him if he ended up with a nasty bite. Yes, the owner should have had its dog on a leash, but really? A cyclist wearing at least a pair of gloves and a helmet couldn't take down a doberman without having to resort to the use of a firearm? Throw your bike at the dog. Kick. Punch. Yell. Ride your bike away from the dog. Carry pepper spray. Like many have said in this thread, a responsible gun owner knows that it is the last resort. Sounds like this cyclist was one of those "armed and jumpy" types. 

And who knows, maybe he saw this as a good opportunity to get rid of an annoyance he encountered regularly on his rides, knowing that if the dog was unleashed he'd be in the clear from a legal standpoint (people are absolutely nuts sometimes, gun or not). Sorry for the tirade, but animals can't be d**chebags in the same way people can, therefore it bothers me when people kill them when they probably didn't need to.

One thing in that article that really bothers me is the fact that it took place on the dog owner's front yard. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but in my 25 mile commute to work and back I don't once step wheel onto a residential property. Unless this guy was practicing for an upcoming CX race and decided to try to navigate their lawn to work on his grass technique, that seems pretty odd to me.


----------



## ridemtn (Aug 25, 2009)

Meh, I'm not interested in being bit simply because I choose to ride a bike and certainly not because I could 'survive' it.
On the other hand, if I choose to own a dog, it is my job to keep it controlled for others AND its own safety!
That incident was entirely the dog owners fault, the rider should not feel shame in the slightest, let alone blame, even if the dog was shot from many yards away.
The rider surely didn't enjoy it and that is a total non-issue regardless.


----------



## Spinnyspinspin (Aug 11, 2011)

Shooting a dog that is "yards away" makes it hard to justify saying that you feel your life is threatened. I've had cars pass me within inches before, but would I be justified in shooting the driver (however much I might want to)? Would I be legally protected taking such action, even if the car was violating a five foot law? No. Explain to me how a dog threatens your life if it is on its owners property and you are riding your bike down the street?

Granted, none of us were there, so we don't know how it all went down. But shooting anything from a distance and yelling self defense is cowardly, impulsive, more than likely unnecessary, and certainly isn't the action of a _responsible gun owner._


----------



## ridemtn (Aug 25, 2009)

This thread seems to be straying, but in regards to carrying a gun, obviously carriers have accountability for their judgement calls (in the heat of the moment it is always difficult as you say), but what a ridiculous concept to compare shooting people to shooting animals; both ethically and legally.


----------



## Guest (Dec 30, 2011)

I think its 100% within a citizen's rights to protect them self from any human, or animal that is perceived as a fatal threat.The tricky part is proving that you had absolutley no other option. Its difficult to say you had no way out when you are on a bicycle.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Never carried a gun. Have carried at various times a short bladed knifed and/or a sharpened steel ball point pen body (the joys of growing up in Boston). Had the **** kicked out of me a couple of times, a gun wouldn't have helped in either situation, not being alone would have, knife did once by dint of intimidation.



highdelll said:


> They sure tried to slant that to the dog-owners side...
> "my dog never hurt anyone" is almost always the responce to a bite/mauling - not saying this IS the case - Just _sayin'_


TBH, that story sounds like this to me:

_A-hole goes out to kill an animal, finds a dog off a leash, claims it was attacking him and he feared for his life when caught._ 
That he was riding a bike is neither here nor there, if an adult Dobie attacks you you do not make claims to police after the fact, you explain what happened to the paramedics while they fill you with stitches. Those things are fast and they got big teeth, if you can draw, aim and fire a gun (all whilst riding a bike) in the time one needs to close ranks on you you're either called Mr Eastwood or you're a liar.


----------



## Fat Bob (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm a commuter, and own several guns. Not knowing all the the circumstance first hand it is hard to pass judgement... sad situation, it's too bad this particular cyclist couldn't show some restraint.... especially since he shot the dog in the guys yard. I'm not sure things would have ended well for him if he had fired his weapon in the direction of my house with me in my garage...


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Fat Bob said:


> I'm a commuter, and own several guns. Not knowing all the the circumstance first hand it is hard to pass judgement... sad situation, it's too bad this particular cyclist couldn't show some restraint.... especially since he shot the dog in the guys yard. I'm not sure things would have ended well for him if he had fired his weapon in the direction of my house with me in my garage...


Are you saying you would have started shooting at him ? In the goal if injuring or possibly killing him ? Without any notice first ?


----------



## yetiasx (Feb 6, 2006)

MP5A5: Retractable buttstock, 3-round burst trigger group.


----------



## olegbabich (Dec 28, 2007)

Fat Bob said:


> I'm a commuter, and own several guns. Not knowing all the the circumstance first hand it is hard to pass judgement... sad situation, it's too bad this particular cyclist couldn't show some restraint.... especially since he shot the dog in the guys yard. I'm not sure things would have ended well for him if he had fired his weapon in the direction of my house with me in my garage...


If you go after somebody with deadly force for shooting your dangerous dog, well you got some problems.:nono:


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

olegbabich said:


> If you go after somebody with deadly force for shooting your dangerous dog, well you got some problems.:nono:


I would have go after him with a baseball bat instead, to engage dialog and try to clarify what just happen, then decide if the guy need police punishment or baseball lesson. I would be afraid he might try to shoot me too if I run towards him aiming a gum at his person and yelling.


----------



## Fat Bob (Mar 5, 2004)

If anyone fires their weapon in the direction of my house they are engaging me, I'm well within my right to protect my home and property more so than being afraid of being bitten by a dog. As I prefaced my original comment, it's hard to pass judgement without all the facts (which is probably why no charges were filed against the cyclist for discharging a firearm within city limits). The fact that the home owners dog was shot in his yard is tragic, but really neither here nor there... you shoot in the direction of someones home you'd better expect they may shoot back


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Fat Bob said:


> You shoot in the direction of someones home you'd better expect they may shoot back


Yay ! Like in the movies !


----------



## Buster Bluth (Sep 11, 2008)

Some of you guys have to pack a gun while riding your bike? I'd just move to a sane part of the world.


----------



## swingset (Oct 14, 2010)

Buster Bluth said:


> Some of you guys have to pack a gun while riding your bike? I'd just move to a sane part of the world.


Have to? No, some of us just choose to be armed. I don't have to have a fire extinguisher, but it's sure nice if a fire breaks out. Trust me, wherever you are, there is violence and crime. There's also fire, just as there are bad people....so I have the tools for both and employ them when and where I choose to. You just live with the small risk of violence, shielded by a (false) belief that nothing can ever happen. That's not how I choose to live, but I wouldn't force my choices on you.

I would argue that the sane part of the world is the one that trusts its citizens to possess the tools of self-defense...and the crazy countries expect you to fight off a mugger with your bare hands or wait for a cop to show up.

I ride with a first aid kit, should I move to a safer part of the world where people don't fall over?


----------



## ConfederateLawyer (Jun 3, 2011)

David C said:


> I would have go after him with a baseball bat instead, to engage dialog and try to clarify what just happen, then decide if the guy need police punishment or baseball lesson. I would be afraid he might try to shoot me too if I run towards him aiming a gum at his person and yelling.


I wouldn't recommend approaching a man who is holding a pistol in hand--that he just used to protect himself--while you are holding a baseball bat. He might (correctly) perceive that the "dialogue" you wish to engage in isn't so friendly. We've all heard the admonition to not bring a knife to a gunfight. The same goes for baseball bats.

The scenario involving the dog lacks any of the facts that I would need in order to pass judgment. The news article is a hit piece. It is so lacking in unbiased journalistic integrity that it shouldn't be referred to as "news." The dog--a Doberman--is a breed that is recognized as being potentially dangerous. I don't want to start a war with all of the self-conscious pit bull owners, but there are some breeds that cause more alarm to a cyclist than others. Pomeranians and Labradors are viewed much differently than Dobermans and Rottweilers. And the fact that there was some remaining distance between the dog and the cyclist is meaningless to me. The cyclist shouldn't have to wait until he is bleeding and in need of stitches to defend himself any more than a woman should have to wait until a rapist has achieved penetration before she shoots her attacker. Years ago, a man named Dennis Tueller conducted some studies which the FBI has since adopted into their training program. Mr. Tueller determined that the minimum safe distance for an armed police officer from an assailant armed with a knife was 21 feet. If the attacker could get inside of 21 feet, he could stab the police officer before the officer could get a shot off. That study is based on a "normal" human. A Doberman could cover distance a lot faster than a human. Was the guy right to shoot the dog? I don't know. But without more information (which isn't likely to be forthcoming), we'll never know. And--as someone else said--the tie goes to the cyclist.

If your goal is simply to "feel" safe, then you can simply ignore the dangers of the world. Statistically, you can probably get through life without ever being horribly victimized. Don't waste money on a life insurance policy; just think positively. If you want to actually _be_ safe, then you have to take steps to ensure that safety. You'll still have to evaluate which steps are reasonable. Some risk is inherent in life. I don't want to stay locked in my home all day, afraid to venture into the world. So I venture forth and accept some risk. But I take reasonable steps to minimize that risk. My blazing yellow bike jersey isn't something I would ordinarily wear, but I do it because it increases my safety. Carrying a pistol is just one more tool that you can use to prevent harm from befalling you. If you don't want to carry one, fine. I sincerely pray that you will never have to regret that decision.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

I either carry a Ruger .380 lcp in y pocket or a colt .45 defender carried sob all the time


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

Oh and I have a cwp and had to take a 3 hour course to get it


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I carry a big shotgun strapped to my back with an amo belt over my jersey to be sure no one will try to threaten me. And I have a big life insurance policy and I hate roadies.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

David C said:


> I carry a big shotgun strapped to my back with an amo belt over my jersey to be sure no one will try to threaten me. And I have a big life insurance policy and I hate roadies.


I prefer the open carry of a recurve bow like The Weatherman lol


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

WarBoom said:


> I prefer the open carry of a recurve bow like The Weatherman lol


But you need both hands to shoot the bow. I have a barrel mount with swivel base directly onto my handle bar. Semi-auto Benelli with short barrel and turkey grip. It got a RaceFace logo on the chamber side btw.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

David C said:


> But you need both hands to shoot the bow. I have a barrel mount with swivel base directly onto my handle bar. Semi-auto Benelli with short barrel and turkey grip. It got a RaceFace logo on the chamber side btw.


very nice 
yes i have to use to hands but its the bow off of the new greek movie forget what its called where it uses magic glowing thunder arrow thingies that say kcnc and sram on the broadheads
lol


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

WarBoom said:


> very nice
> yes i have to use to hands but its the bow off of the new greek movie forget what its called where it uses magic glowing thunder arrow thingies that say kcnc and sram on the broadheads
> lol


I wouldn't joke about broadheads... At least my thumb don't want to.

Is your bow a compound one ? I heard they used new 10 speed specific pulley designs, and you then need super uber narrow arrows and new sights to match the tighter string spacing. Btw I have concentric targets with Easton logo in the middle for target shooting at the range :thumbsup:


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

All jokin aside I do use a Easton switchback with muzzy bheads and it would look bad ass carrying it concealed lol


----------



## Medic Zero (Jun 8, 2011)

0010 0110 said:


> I been down some sketchy neighborhoods for short cuts but i feel one of these day that short cut may be very short if u know what i mean.
> 
> Ive recently got a big ass dog let loose on me by some punk that thought it would be funny for his dog to chase me down the street:yikes:. and some other guy tried to get me to dismount my bike. not sure if he wanted to steal it from me or not but i wasn't about to find out
> 
> ...


I'm in the same position as you. On campus 5 days a week, and I also work at a hospital, so can't bring my pistols there either. Technically pocketknives as well and I had some problems with Human Resources about me having a cheap box opener on me at work* so I don't risk it with carrying a folder most of the time, even though it'd just be from the parking garage (bike cage) to the locker room. I ride so little with my sidearms I have yet to invest in a good sweat-proof holster. That said, when I carry, it's usually my Firestar in .40, although in summer sometimes it's my CZ-70 (.32)

* Part of my job involves breaking down boxes of supplies we receive, although I do that so little now that I've moved from the ICU to the ER that I don't bother to carry the box cutter anymore.

I often have a flashlight with a strike bezel in my front pocket and am just getting around to replacing my NY style chain that I lost when a garage burnt down. That thing was a great deterrent. Only had to take it off my shoulder once, and that was enough. The guys eyes got real big and he left in a hurry!

On days I don't want to, or need to roll with the chain, I've just picked up a U-lock holster. If you have to defend yourself, or threaten to do so, a U-lock is better than a knife IMO. With a good holster for one it can be quicker to deploy than a pocket knife too.


----------



## ub in ne (May 24, 2011)

Hmm...here in the midwest, everyone carries alittle something! Ruger LCP for me

Kirk


----------



## ojgville (Feb 1, 2012)

I would like to get a CCW for riding but I have the same problem other people have mentioned. I can't bring it into the building at work. I would love to carry a light cavalry sword. Perfect for mounted decapitation. lol


----------



## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Steam heat.


----------



## rusheleven (Jan 19, 2012)

*They DO!*



Tom93R1 said:


> I wonder if anybody makes a bike mount pepper spray..


Cyclist Self Defense Spray for Bikes (1.25 oz)

mounts on stem or top tube.

Works


----------



## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

ub in ne said:


> Hmm...here in the midwest, everyone carries alittle something! Ruger LCP for me. Kirk


Last I saw, Indiana was in the Midwest as were Ohio and Illinois, where I also lived. None of the guys i occasionally ride with are packin', though I knew of a few who rode tough areas in Illinois and Ohio who did, but my crude survey suggests that 'everyone in the midwest carries', is an exaggeration.

If I carried, I'd be tempted to make a third eye when a guy said he didn't see me.

"Can you see me NOW?"

I think that is called 'overkill'. 

BrianMc


----------



## thelivingdead (May 8, 2012)

Have a reoccurring Rottweiler issue on my ride to work. Rural area, no dog laws, can't find owners. Been going on for a week now with two of his Heeler buddies and it's getting worse everyday. It's on a fast rocky downhill dirt road section. Nothing like trying to avoid three pissed dogs that jump out of the sage with bared teeth running at you and snapping their teeth Talked to the sheriff and was told "sorry nothing we can do." I told him that I would not deal with another dog attack (got tore up pretty good by a Rottie 15 years ago) and I would take extreme defensive action if need be. He read between the lines and said "do what you have to do" Sucks, but now carrying the G-23 with a G-22 mag and grip extension in a Sherpa positive retention holster worn on pack waist belt. Hydroshock....it's what's for doggie breakfast (hopefully not).


----------



## Haligan78 (Jun 13, 2011)

I am not worried about two legged bad guys so much as four legged bad guys. This past week within a couple miles of my house the fish n game has trapped and relocated two grizzlies and have hazed off a mountain lion with hounds. I leave for work at 3:30 am. I have a can of counter assault on the riser for my handle bars. It is easy to zip tie the holster in place. Studies have proven that spray is much more effective in defending against bears than guns. Plus I cant bring a gun to work. However when I am in the woods I do carry a .44 mag loaded with 300 grain hardcast lead round nose bullets. I load em myself and I load them hot. That is for backup....a LOT less paperwork with law enforcement if you use spray instead of a gun. I don't use hollowpoints either, those are a joke for bear....you want all the penetration you can get.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Haligan78 said:


> I am not worried about two legged bad guys so much as four legged bad guys. This past week within a couple miles of my house the fish n game has trapped and relocated two grizzlies and have hazed off a mountain lion with hounds. I leave for work at 3:30 am. I have a can of counter assault on the riser for my handle bars. It is easy to zip tie the holster in place. Studies have proven that spray is much more effective in defending against bears than guns. Plus I cant bring a gun to work. However when I am in the woods I do carry a .44 mag loaded with 300 grain hardcast lead round nose bullets. I load em myself and I load them hot. That is for backup....a LOT less paperwork with law enforcement if you use spray instead of a gun. I don't use hollowpoints either, those are a joke for bear....you want all the penetration you can get.


you sir, are an exception to most people here - golldang!


----------



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

:lol: 

No grizzlies in my parts, but funny you should mention the 4 legged critters. We've had more mountian lion sightings than normal this year, and my neighbor just had one run across the dirt road just a ways down from my house the other day. I started carrying a knife on the shoulder strap of my backpack...but I've been wondering about pepper spray for a mountain lion. I can't carry a gun to work either.


----------



## thelivingdead (May 8, 2012)

Just Supplemented the Glock 23 with spray myself. I was talking with my barber about my dog problem and she mentioned a few local riders had a lion follow them a bit a few weeks ago. Googled spray products and it seems to work well on dogs and lions. Pretty funny vid on a nasty pit bull that gets a snoot full linked to the site. Advanced products, I think.

I actually had a young lion jump in front of me in the LA area many years ago. He totally mistimed things and I ended up behind him. I was down down a ridge with dense brush on each side. Happened in the blink of an eye. Clocked him at 28 mph for 50 yards or so before he took a quick right.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a silenced ar15 mounted on my handlebar with ap/incendiary and 100rd drummag and a g19 with 30+2 mounted under my saddle facing backwards. I'm currenty thinking about getting one or maybe 2 45s or an rpg for my cranks and maybe 2 hand grenades for the bottle holder. Whats the best hand grenades?


----------



## thelivingdead (May 8, 2012)

Wow...hi speed low drag


----------



## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

Springfield SubCompact XD .40S&W


----------



## VChuck (Nov 23, 2009)

I was recently accosted by some would be bike thieves(bros) while on my daily commute(45miles) home on my 98 ball burnished GT Zaskar that I recently bought after my 02 GT timberline was stolen.They pulled ahead of me in automobile and tried to chase me down.I just took evasive action and out run them.It was kind of un-nervingto say the least.
I was carrying a short machete for a few days but the local cops(useless) kept following me around like I was the bad guy.
I am not against having firearms in the least.but for me on my daily commute i average about 3 attempts a day to run me off the road.(thats why I use a mountain bike for commuting)
I would be in jail for shooting some inbred,or other idiot having their fun.
I just changed my route and I carry a sog trident light-folder in my shorts now and a couple of masterlock padlocks to heave at *******s when they veer at you inn their cars I am forced to ride against traffic on LPGA Blvd by I-95 where I work at.


----------

