# Stan's Rims on a Tandem



## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

I'm looking for rims to run tubeless on a tandem. I thought the Stan's Flow rim might be a good choice, so I emailed him to see if he thought they would hold up. Here's what he said:

"Yes the flow rims will work great. Try them with just the yellow spoke tape first. If you get any burping you can install the Flow rim strip."

So, I guess we could say that they have been "approved for tandem use" -at least for a team with a combined weight of 300lbs, which is what I stipulated.

More options are always good.:thumbsup:


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## Trails4Two (May 12, 2008)

I would suggest using the 36 hole version, strong spokes, and a great builder. The Stan's 355's that I use on my single are a bit soft.


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## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

Trails4Two said:


> I would suggest using the 36 hole version, strong spokes, and a great builder. The Stan's 355's that I use on my single are a bit soft.


I would, but it looks like the 36 hole version is only available as a 29'er. This would be for a Ventana, not our current "cross" tandem. The 335's are a light-weight racing rim, right? They've got a completely different build than the Flows.

http://www.notubes.com/ztr_rims.php

I do have a superb wheel builder by the name of Chris Robinson. I might also look for a downhill UST rim. I've been running non-UST tires on Mavic Crossmax ST's with Stan's goop and no rim-strips or anything, and they hold air better than any other system I've tried (including innertubes!). Of course, I only weigh half of what we'll be subjecting these to.


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## Trails4Two (May 12, 2008)

Bummer that the 26" Flow doesn't come in a 36 spoke. It probably depends on what you run over, but I would be shy of a 32 hole rim for off-road tandeming. Since we can't unweight either end of the bike, we end up running over some pretty fierce rocksand getting some suprising and unexpected side loads. I was actually worried when I moved from 40 to 36 hole. So far though, it has not been a problem. I do know some folks have been using use the Mavic 823 with good results. I have had good luck using Sun MTX with a ghetto tubless setup.


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## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

Trails4Two said:


> I do know some folks have been using use the Mavic 823 with good results. I have had good luck using Sun MTX with a ghetto tubless setup.


Yeah, I was thinking the 823 might be a good choice. Would you care to elaborate on your MTX setup? How did you seal the spoke holes? It looks to me like the Stan's rim strips for wider rims use schrader valves. I'd really like to keep it presta, since that's what all the rest of the bikes in my fleet use.


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## Trails4Two (May 12, 2008)

We have a White Industries/MTX wheelset from Alex Nutt at MTBTandems. It's a nice, well-built wheel set. My whole decision to try tubless (it's still in the experiment phase) cam when we got two pinch flats on the Monarch Crest trail this Fall. We were using an IRC Trailbear tire (2.25) and about 40lbs pressure.

My cheap tubless fix: leave the rim strip on, slice a 20"BMX tube on it's outside seam, stretch it around the rim, install the tire, inflate it with a compressor - moving it around until it seats, then un-inflate to add sealant throught the valve core, re-inflate and spin it around alot.

The MTX were already drilled for schreader, so I didn't have to mess with that. Since my floor pump can work with either automatically, and my trail pump takes about 10 seconds to switch, I decided it was worth the easy access to add sealant. I converted about 4-6 weeks ago and have done a couple of very hard rides on it. No flats and very small pressure loss. I'm riding at about 28-30 lbs of pressure.


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## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

Hah! I imagine that's exactly what Stan did when he was first figuring out his system. I have a friend who was talking about buying liquid latex wholesale, mixing in some glitter and making his own sealant.

I may just go with the Mavic. I'll see what my wheel-builder thinks.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

823 are super strong, it's the same extrusion as the DeeMax and other pre-built DH wheelsets from Mavic.

Make sure to re-calculate the spokes with a 16mm long nipple!


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## skwurrl (Feb 7, 2007)

banks said:


> Make sure to re-calculate the spokes with a 16mm long nipple!


Why the 16mm nipples?


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## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

skwurrl said:


> Why the 16mm nipples?


Well, it's been pretty cold lately!

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Stan will say "it's all good"..........as long as you plan on buying his stuff. Remember, he is first a BUSINESSMAN, then an innovater. BTW.......do you plan on RACING this tandem? Let's get REAL here! There are better ways to spend your cash.....


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## Monsterstick (May 29, 2008)

Zachariah said:


> Stan will say "it's all good"..........as long as you plan on buying his stuff. Remember, he is first a BUSINESSMAN, then an innovater. BTW.......do you plan on RACING this tandem? Let's get REAL here! There are better ways to spend your cash.....


I am real, no need for me to get there, but thanks for your concern.

1) Stan has been straightforward and helpful to me in past dealings. I have no reason to suspect him of lying now.

2) This thread has been about riding tubeless on a tandem. There are other applications for tubeless technology besides just racing. The added traction from the lower tire pressure you can run without pinch-flatting is awesome.

3) At this point I'm leaning toward Mavic 823's which are also expensive. Seems like everything about purchasing a mountain bike tandem is expensive. C'est la vie...


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## MichiganClydesdale (Mar 24, 2004)

*follow the flow*

We just ran the Iceman Race on our tandem, with newly built Flow rims. I'm less than thrilled with how hard it was to get a tire to seat properly on the rims, but they are bombproof in the 29er. We're nearly 450lbs total weight, and the flows (with tubes) were flawless.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Why with tubes?


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## Sam Jones (Feb 25, 2005)

Trails4Two said:


> We have a White Industries/MTX wheelset from Alex Nutt at MTBTandems. <SNIP> I converted about 4-6 weeks ago and have done a couple of very hard rides on it. No flats and very small pressure loss. I'm riding at about 28-30 lbs of pressure.


What kind of tires are you using? I'm in the process of going tubless on my ECDM with MTX 23 front(with Maverick Hub) and 36 rear an am contemplating using WTB Mutano. We are about 300 lbs and ride LOTS of rocks.

THANKS


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## Trails4Two (May 12, 2008)

I'm using the WTB Motoraptors 2.4 wire bead. Honestly, it's what I had laying around. The Stan's website says that IRC tires have weaker beads, so I wanted to try a different brand. Once the Moto's wear out I'll try something else, but they have worked so far.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Sam Jones said:


> What kind of tires are you using? I'm in the process of going tubless on my ECDM with MTX 23 front(with Maverick Hub) and 36 rear an am contemplating using WTB Mutano. We are about 300 lbs and ride LOTS of rocks.
> 
> THANKS


Sam, the 2.4 Mutanos have very thin sidewalls, which explains their low weight. You might want to keep an eye on those in rocky terrain.
Now the 2.24's are heavier tires with a thicker casing. I just put a set on our demo Witness, since the 2.4's won't clear the rear suspension. They seem a little more aggressive in tread action.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

skwurrl said:


> Why the 16mm nipples?


The 823 & 819 UST rims has a Insert that "holds" the nipple, cuz of the Fore process. 16mm allows the nipple to not fall into the rim & allows full purchase on the flats to get the spoke key on them.


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## DaleTR (Apr 6, 2007)

*Tubeless Tandem*



Monsterstick said:


> 2) This thread has been about riding tubeless on a tandem. There are other applications for tubeless technology besides just racing. The added traction from the lower tire pressure you can run without pinch-flatting is awesome.


Agree that the lower pressure is great. Been running a tubeless Schwable Racing Ralph on Mavic Crossmax XL wheelset. Been doing well at lower pressures (40ish PSI) than I was comfortable running a tubed tire.

Only issue to date was "burping" the rear when hitting square lips at an angle on slickrock trails (Rocking A in Moab). Outside of that, traction & flat resistance has been good so far. We are a lighter team at ~300 lbs.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Monsterstick said:


> At this point I'm leaning toward Mavic 823's which are also expensive. Seems like everything about purchasing a mountain bike tandem is expensive. C'est la vie...


823s are my "xc" rims. 

Tandems being expensive, Duh, big red truck. Ya like blonde jokes?

I overheard Stan saying to a group of people, I was working for Shimano @ a Norba race about 3 years back, "they can't touch me, I'm a LLC". say no more.

Stay with UST tires.


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