# Going to attempt my first bike light - Official WIP thread - suggestions welcome



## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

*Update for November 30th, Mounted helmet light pics and progress pics on headlight housing. *

*Update for November 21st Finished Pics. *

*Update for November 14th with pics in post number 57. *

This will be the work in progress thread for my light. I have updated the Thread title and also added to this thread. Instead of starting a new thread I thought it would be best to just keep the discussion in this one.

Just disregard the following original post about not knowing what the heck I'm doing with the LED's and my lack of understanding. I have done some more studying and talked to a few distributors of products and I think I have a handle on things. So with that, I am going to put out a list of parts that I think might work, and I hope you guys can critique my selections and let me know what I need to know about them. I put the original post in italics:

_I have several threads started on several forums about some sort of light. The time has changed and it is now dark and I cannot ride during the week because of this. I have another thread about building a cheaper light for the time being maybe utilizing halogen, but I need some advice on building something nice. I know I can always just buy something, but I would really enjoy the challenge of something custom. I actually pm'd Goldigger about his thread - located here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=658023

I told him in the pm that he is doing an excellent job - considering that he doesn't have much experience running a mill :thumbsup:

This approach is something I am very interest in, as I have extensive machine tool background (I'm a toolmaker). I can do the housing and mount no problem, but I will need help with the circuitry. I don't really know the first thing about electronics when it comes to LEDs. I want to know more about LED technology and what all I have to have. I have done some reading here and on Candlepowerforums, but to put it bluntly: it really gets over my head fast. I can't believe how deep some of this stuff gets.

My requirements are these:

-1 hour runtime (I don't ride for longer in the evenings because I need to get home to the family)
-Significantly bright LED's that put out great light 
-I would like for it to be a dual setup (maybe?) where one is flood and the other a spot..or two flood and one spot..Not sure

I think that if one goes to the trouble of actually custom building a light like this they would surely use nice components. I don't want super top-of-the-line stuff, just dependable stuff that is better than average. The simplest battery design I have seen was 8 AAs run in a series to create 12 volts. I have no idea what battery I might need, just that I will need one to push the lights for about an hour. I like the idea of the high tech fancy batteries, but I'm not taking out a loan to do this stuff either.

I have a digital car battery charger that is really nice. I don't know if it will be able to be used for the charging duties I will have, but it would be nice because I won't have to buy that too.

With this forum's help, I may be able to come up with a really neat looking light. I would appreciate some input. I guess first off some basic understanding of what I need to be concerned with and possible parts prospects or suggestions would be good._


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Why don't you copy one of the many great builds on here to give you some ideas. Something like a 3 xpg running at 1000mA from a buckpuck with some reginas up front would be a nice start? what's that, about 1000lm?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

That sounds like a great idea possibly, but IA don't know where to find it. Like I said, I don't know much about the electronics side of it, and I just get overwhelmed when I try to read some of that info.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

So I would suggest reading the following as a starting point and come back with any questions -

http://bikeled.org/elec_LED.html


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

MrLee said:


> So I would suggest reading the following as a starting point and come back with any questions -
> 
> http://bikeled.org/elec_LED.html


Thank you so much. This about answers all of my stupid questions.:thumbsup:

I will post back soon, as I plan to start this project shortly. I want to get some advice on the parts I will pick too just to be sure everything is going to work like I intend.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

At the moment, I am going to focus on the selection of parts for the light housing itself. I will deal with the battery end of it later on in the project. Here is the list of parts I have compiled:

two (2) 3-Up Cree XP-G stars
two (2) 350PmA BuckPuck wih built in dimmers/potentiometers
one (1) narrow 3-Up optics reflector thing 16.4* angle
one (1) Eliptical 3-Up optics reflector thing 43* x 16* angle
one (1) Medium frosted 3-Up reflector thing 25.9* angle
one (1) tube of Artic silver premium adhesive

With the following list, I think I can achieve what I am trying to do. I will build the housing and incorporate heat sink fins and all into it. I will probably incorporate a bar mount as well. I think this will be plenty of light to iluminate the trail. I was originally going to go with three lights, but several suppliers suggested that two of these would be more than enough. I want to achieve a spot type light for the distance, and the eliptical optics for peripheral vision. The reason I have the one medium optic thing in the parts list is just for experimentation.I think I will achieve more of what I'm looking for with the eliptical verses a flood. My thinking is more light where I need it instead of some light not utilized.

I have still not decided, but I may add that third star to make a helmet light. I haven't had any experience with the bars vs. helmet mounted light yet, so I can't really say what I'm going to do. I do know that I only want one battery pack, and two of these will pull it pretty hard I assume. Three would be rough . Like I said initially though, I only need an hour of run time. 

The reason both buck puck drivers have built in dimmers is simply for versatility, I don't know that I will ever use them that much, but I would rather have it and never use it than not have it at all. The reason there are two (2) of them is because I want to independently control each light, not the set. I want to be able to turn one off at some times, maybe run both sometimes etc. 


1. I see many people use lexan or plexiglass as lens material. With it being that close to the emitters and optics, is there any issue with heat?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

At 350mA you won't even need heasinking fins, much less melting lexan.


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## acezone (Jul 6, 2010)

you will need the 1000ma buck pucks to get a good usable amount of light, the xpg can be run up too 1400ma without too much trouble.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

So I definitely need to run the mAh up to 1000 for the Buck pucks?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

cncwhiz said:


> So I definitely need to run the mAh up to 1000 for the Buck pucks?


mA = current (driver)
mAh = capacity (battery)

run at 1000 mA and the ability to dim the light would come in handy.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

unless you want the control of each stars brightness, Is it not possible to drive them from a single buckpuck with the stars switched independently, or has that got potential issues with the buckpuck current sensing?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

The plan is to have a buckpuck on each star. They will have potentiometers on each of them. I'll whip up a little illustration.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

ok, it might not be an issue for you, but you know you'll be adding to the power inefficiency by having two of them, you also need to find somewhere to put them both.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I will incorporate a spot in the light housing itself probably for them. As far as I can tell they are about 7/8" square by 7/16" thick. 

So I guess I will have an issue with more resistance when I run both of them? How much power loss are we talking about?


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Lets say somewhere between 85% and 95% efficiency for each one?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Here is a simple illustration of my current plan.










I'm still not exactly sure why I need a 1000mA driver for each one. I was thinking a lower 350 mA driver for each one would be fine.

I guess the next real question I have is what changes exactly? I'm having trouble understanding the math...

The specs for the stars are:

-417 lm @ 350mA 
-1000mA - Max Drive Current 
-9.0Vf - Typ. Forward Voltage @ 350mA 
-6500K - Color Temperature

So if they will produce 417 lm at 350 mA, it is obvioulsy going to be more when I increase up to 500, 700, or 1000.

How do I figure out what lm output # I will achieve given a certain mA?


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

driven at 1000mA, you will get approx 1000lumen per star.

here is a good chart -


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

1000 lumens per star seems like it would generate an unGodly amount of heat- and light of course, but is it really necessary? What I do not want to do is bake my stars. I understand they will get hot, but I would rather have good light output with reliability. It says 1000mA max drive current in the specs. Wouldn't that be right on the edge of what the star can take? 

I will build a housing out of a solid block of aluminum. There will be no thermal conductivity limitations..I can promise that.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

You can turn a 1000mA buckpuck down to 350mA. You can not turn a 350mA up from 350 though if you need more light.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

odtexas said:


> You can turn a 1000mA buckpuck down to 350mA. You can not turn a 350mA up from 350 though if you need more light.


:thumbsup:


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

odtexas said:


> You can turn a 1000mA buckpuck down to 350mA. You can not turn a 350mA up from 350 though if you need more light.


So in other words, with the 1000mA driver, I can turn the dimmer down and it will put out less mA to the star? -and it will only be receiving 1000mA if I have the driver turned all the way up?


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

indeed, but I don't think 1000mA is uncommon, sounds like you can sort out a good housing, you can always tweak them down a little if you get thermal issues.

sounds like it will be a good build.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

MrLee said:


> indeed, but I don't think 1000mA is uncommon, sounds like you can sort out a good housing, you can always tweak them down a little if you get thermal issues.
> 
> sounds like it will be a good build.


Like I said earlier, I'd rather have more than enough and not use it all than not enough.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

I've got a triple XPG running at 1000ma without issue. Super bright. You just need a way to dissipate the heat. I had a potentiometer for the buckpuck, but I never used it. Lots of light is good. I use flexible copper tube to help shed heat. Works very well. 

I have a double XRE helmet light with a spot as well. I can ride with either one solo, so having both is a total luxury, but safe as well. If I break one, I have the other (happened a couple of nights ago).


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

cncwhiz said:


> 1000 lumens per star seems like it would generate an unGodly amount of heat- and light of course, but is it really necessary? What I do not want to do is bake my stars. I understand they will get hot, but I would rather have good light output with reliability. It says 1000mA max drive current in the specs. Wouldn't that be right on the edge of what the star can take?
> 
> I will build a housing out of a solid block of aluminum. There will be no thermal conductivity limitations..I can promise that.


I don't know what the night time temperature is near you, but don't forget what happens to your light when sat on your workbench isn't the same as what will happen when riding.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

The winter season in AL regularly sees night time temps of under 40*F. We have a few weeks year of freezing temps. It will be cooler so that wil definitely help.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cncwhiz said:


> It says 1000mA max drive current in the specs. Wouldn't that be right on the edge of what the star can take?
> 
> I will build a housing out of a solid block of aluminum. There will be no thermal conductivity limitations..I can promise that.


This thread has a machined from solid light I built....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=578463

Even with the large fin area it has, it trips the thermal dimming (120F) on the hipflex driver after 6-8 minutes of no movement in ~70F air temp. A walking pace keeps it well under that and if the air temp is ~50 the housing is only mildly warm. Surface area and air flow are everything.

The 1000mA rating is not even close to the edge for the XP-G. Lots of people are running to 1500mA. I'm running the MC-Es in the above light at 1000mA (2000mA total draw for the pair) even though they are rated as 700mA max. It's been like that for ~8 months now with no apparent ill effects.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

That is a really good looking light man. That's really good work too. The air fins look like plenty enough for the purpose. Your switch design is really nice as well. I like the idea that it is mounted right near your grip. That is something I find very important now that I have been riding seriously - you can't hardly ever take your hands off the bars.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cncwhiz said:


> That is a really good looking light man. That's really good work too. The air fins look like plenty enough for the purpose. Your switch design is really nice as well. I like the idea that it is mounted right near your grip. That is something I find very important now that I have been riding seriously - you can't hardly ever take your hands off the bars.


Thanks. The fins are way more than enough to keep it cool while moving. The real point is that even with the heatsink area that body has, it still gets damn warm when stopped and left on full power. Of course there is no reason to leave it on high when stopped for any period of time. The next "big" light I build will have a smaller body and less fin area.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

So I guess today I need to decide what mA driver will be best to push these XP-G 3-Ups.

So, the updated list will be the same as before but with 1000mA or 700mA buckpucks with built in dimmers / potentiometers.

These two scenarios are really what I am trying to decide between. One setup utilizes 700mA drivers for a total of 2100 mA, the other utilizes 1000mA drivers for a total of 3000mA.

examples:



















How much difference can I expect to see between a 700mA setup and a 1000mA setup? How much life out of the stars will I lose by going to 1000mA drivers vs 700?

Remember that the headlight stars will each have drivers with dimmers, and they will most likely not be turned to full brightness at all times. I'm thinking of going ahead and doing the 1000mA drivers, but part of me is still afraid that I will be cutting the life of the stars way down. I think i may be overeacting..

What should I go with?

The battery has yet to be determined. I'm not sure how to add up all the numbers to get the battery I need, so the only thing I guess I know for sure is either a 3000mA current draw or 2100mA draw, depending on which drivers are chosen. I need the battery to run for at least an hour, maybe more. 2 hours would be great if possible, but if the cost increases significantly between a 1hr battery vs. a 2hr battery I will probably go with what is cheaper.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

The mA draw of the battery will depend on the voltage differential between the battery and circuits Vf (forward voltage).

So the Vf of your circuits will probably be around 11V. Battery at 14.8 V, 2500mAh, will give 1 hour 30 minute run drawing 1652 mA using 1000 mA buckpucks full out.

LED Run time Calculator

14.8V packs are somewhat normal and cheap. Higher voltage packs begin to see steep increase in price since they are a little more exotic. Chargers for the 14.8V batteries are cheap and easy to find as well.
Packs and chargers at  All-battery.com 
If you go higher voltage then your best bet would be to order a battery holder rack from SDNative and use individual 18650 cells.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

odtexas said:


> The mA draw of the battery will depend on the voltage differential between the battery and circuits Vf (forward voltage).
> 
> So the Vf of your circuits will probably be around 11V. Battery at 14.8 V, 2500mAh, will give 1 hour 30 minute run drawing 1652 mA using 1000 mA buckpucks full out.


So you think I would be better off to just go ahead and go with the 1000ma drivers?

The part that I quoted of your reply means with the dimmers turned all the way up to 1000mA correct? ..and you are talking about all three of them?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Sorry, I was just calculating 2 of them at 1000 mA


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I want to go ahead and get enough battery so that I can support three of them if I decide to do it. Will a battery designed to run three of them also run only two of them? I suspect the only thing that would happen is that I would get better battery life because I am not drawing all three at once..


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

With 3, one hour, 2477mA.

Do yourself a favor and don't ever tie your helmet and bar lights together. You don't want to be tethered to your bike in a crash, especially when the tether attaches to your head/neck. Have independent systems for redundancy..........


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

So I would basicly have to have two different batteries?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

It would be best..........


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Makes sense. Thanks for the tip. My first thought would be some sort of quick disconnect from the battery to the lights. But if it isn't a good idea I will avoid that.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

odtexas said:


> Do yourself a favor and don't ever tie your helmet and bar lights together. You don't want to be tethered to your bike in a crash, especially when the tether attaches to your head/neck. Have independent systems for redundancy..........


+1 on this statement!

Also using your helmet light as a headlamp for doing trailside repairs, flat fixing, etc. when connected to your bike would be a PITA.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Are you really still debating over getting the 1000mA buckpucks? - as odtexas said yesterday, you can always turn them down, you can't turn up a lower one.

If you are worried, you could look at mounting a thermistor near yours stars to turn down power if things are getting toasty.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cncwhiz 
I have seen your post on CPF and you have the talent and machinery to do a pretty good housing so no worries in that area .

My opinion if you want to do a six led for the bars is scrap the elliptical as you are just wasting lumens .
the XPGs behing the carclo 20 mm triple tight have more than enough flood for anyone 
so save your money there

and for the helmet light use XPEs and the same optic that will give a more penetrating beam . you will have more than enough lumens .

costs 2 buck pucks for the bar light is close to the Price of a Maxflex driver ( www.taskled.com ) which will give you a simpler one button interface and lots of different levels .

Most definatly one battery for the bar light and a seperate one for the helmet light .
you could run both from the same voltage battery Boost driver ( Maxflex ) for the bars 
and Buck for the Helmet both 14.8 volt li Ion packs .

weight of a typical 4 cell Li Ion is 220 grams but for the bars you may want to go for a double capacity pack so 500grams ish

There is quite a seeable light difference from 700 Ma to 1000 Ma drive

Good liuck with what you decide to do and show us the WIP as it happend please:thumbsup:


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Couldn't find anything on cpf, got a link?

I'm still not sure why you need two buckpucks, am I missing something?



> Good liuck with what you decide to do and show us the WIP as it happend please


:thumbsup: +1


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

MrLee said:


> Couldn't find anything on cpf, got a link?
> 
> I'm still not sure why you need two buckpucks, am I missing something?
> 
> :thumbsup: +1


I could be wrong but I am thinking this is the same person

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=301331


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Nice toolbox, I don't read cpf as much as I used to, however there really is some nice machine work done over there.

I'd still say 1000mA is fine, but then again we have the British weather to keep em cool hey


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

troutie-mtb said:


> I could be wrong but I am thinking this is the same person
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=301331


Yes, that is me :thumbsup:


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

What if you could built the light without any separate drivers? Everything engineered into one piece. You wouldn't have to provide a space for the driver and there would be less wiring, fewer solder connections, etc. What if you could do that and have multiple programmable light levels, and strobe (roadies and those that have to deal with traffic in urban areas like this)? You can. One of the members here, Quazzle builds a LED llight engine just like I described. He also has one coming out that will even more advanced features and the ability to have a master that runs a second slave light engine. You would then have two light engines and a zero footprint for the driver since it's integrated.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I second that suggestion of using Quazzle's light engine. Check out www.lux-rc.com

I really like the LuxRC all-in-one XR-E triple for a headlamp with the carclo optics.
Only 800 lumens, but it's plenty of light in a tight beam, and has several different brightness options including a custom mode. LEDs plus driver all on a little 20mm board.

With your CNC skills you could run off a couple of great housings for this in no time.
XR-E for headlamp, 1000 lumen XP-G for the bars.

I think you could probably sell some more housings too.

Here's my little light from Chelboed mounted to a helmet.


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## marcinski (Jul 11, 2010)

As a newbie myself I also recommend combined led/driver boards from lux-rc. Simplifies both light design and assembly.
Marcin


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I really like the Light engines from Quazzle, but I think I will probably just go ahead and stick to my plan. I see that I will have a rediculous amount of light, but that's ok. Never hurts to have too much right? 3000 lumens. Whoa. 

So the final setup will be this:










That is two seperate pieces. The headlight will be its own housing with 2 stars, each driven by its own 1000mA buckpuck with dimmer / potentiometer.

The helmet light will have one star driven by a 1000mA buckpuck with no dimmer/potentiometer. Again, I don't see the reason for this light to have that because it isn't like I can reach up there and adjust it on the fly anyway.

So now for the battery recomendations. I will need one battery to power the helmet light and one battery to power the headlight.

I need the lights to run for at least an hour. From what I have read, Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be discharged below a certain level or something, so I guess maybe a battery sized to power them for closer to two hours would give me a better cusion. I had also considered using NiMH but, I'm you guys can come up with enough reasons why i don't want to use those. I'm open for any discussion on that, I'd like to hear why people don't use those.

A funny note, I called a battery place yesterday and a tech support person said they really wouldn't recommend me using lithium ion batteries because they could explode and burn me very badly and all that. I mean this person made it out like it was surely going to happen lol. I understand the danger, but dude really over-did it lol.

I don't know how to figure up the battery math. I don't understand how to come up with a battery based on what I have and the time I need it to run. If somebody could explain this in detail that would be great. Some links to the batteries recommended would be great too. I will also need a charger.


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## acezone (Jul 6, 2010)

Note all these figures are really rough but it is just to give you an idea and also you will need higher voltages then the star needs to keep the drivers happy, you will need 4 cell batts unless you change to a boost driver

work in watts for clac the batt you need ie, the stars will use approx 11watt/hours, so with the driver lets say 12Wh (ish) to work out the watt hour of the battery just times the voltage by the amp hour rating ie 2cell batt 14.4v * 2aH will give you 28.8Wh so about 2 hour or 14.4v * 4aH will give you 57 watthours so about 4.5 hours,

Acezone


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

If you look at the table below from batteryspace.com you'll get an idea of what trade-offs there are to be made with the various battery types.

Lithium Ion and Lipo batteries do not always blow up, but sometimes they do. Check out the various threads on battery charging and storage and you'll get an idea of just how careful most people are when charging Lion and Lipo. There is a massively long thread on one forum (might be an RC forum) with pictures, names, dates and specifics of all the fires caused by these two battery types. :madmax:

Lipo is the most dangerous of the two. In fact, two days ago I was in a Radio Shack talking to a RC plane enthusiast. He told me that he's a welder so he welded up a steel box to charge his lipos. Others charge them in fireplaces, outdoors, in covered pots, special lipo charging sacks, etc.

Then there is LiFePo4. Not the most powerful and not the least powerful, but safe. LiFePo4 might also be the most economical based on charge cycles life span. 

Since you're not doing 24 hour races or 5-6 hour rides, LIFePo4 batteries might be perfect for your 1-2 hour riding needs. The energy density is high enough that you won't need to carry massive battery packs for your limited ride lengths.

I know I'm in the minority here preferring LiFePo4. Most guys are using 18650 Lithium Ion based packs. If that's the direction you're heading, I'm sure they can direct you towards some good quality sources. As someone new to light building, it's probably best to stay away from Lipo for now. I don't think I would get too many arguments on this last point.


Chemistry

Voltage

 Energy Density

 Working Temp.

 Cycle Life

 Safety

Environmental

Cost based on cycle life x wh of SLA

LiFePO4

3.2V

>120 wh/kg

 -0-60 °C

 >2000(0.2C

rate, IEC Standard)



Safe

Good



0.15-0.25

 lower than SLA

Lead acid

2.0V

> 35wh/kg

 -20 - 40°C 

>200

Safe

Not good

1

NiCd

1.2V

> 40wh/kg

 -20 - 50 °C

>1000

Safe

Bad

0.7

NiMH

1.2V

 >80 wh/kg

 -20 - 50 °C

 >500

Safe

Good

1.2-1.4

LiMnxNiyCozO2

3.7V

>160 wh/kg

 -20 - 40 °C

 >500

better than LiCo

OK

1.5-2.0

LiCoO2

3.7V

>200 wh/kg

 -20 - 60 °C

 > 500

Unsafe w/o PCM

OK

1.5-2.0


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I like the idea of this new battery chemistry. Can you tell me more about it and where I might see some for sale?


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm sure some other riders can chime in here, but I've found them at:

all-battery.com, batteryspace.com, hobbyking.com. You'll find them listed as LiFePo4 or Life batteries. A quick google search will sometimes turn up new sources. In much larger packs, these batteries are being used in electric vehicles.

You will need a new charger no matter which type of battery you get. Some chargers are battery chemistry specific, others are designed for multiple battery types.

I tend to like the sites where the products can be reviewed by the user. Hobbyking is one of those sites. You don't have to buy it there, but at least you can see what other customers are saying.

Before you go out and order any batteries, you'll need to understand the load the lights are going to put on your battery, the range of voltages allowed by your chosen driver and total capacity needed.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=301331


Nice shifter knob 
How did you put the numbers on top? etched or engraved?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> Nice shifter knob
> How did you put the numbers on top? etched or engraved?


It's done with a cnc mill and a center drill. If I can get the geometry in a cam program I can generate code for it. Letters are easy and are common in most cam programs. I draw up logos and other things too. I've done dodge ram heads, chevy bowties, cobras for mustangs, etc.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Just wanted to update. I got a good start on the headlight housing today. I took pics as I went along, but I'm posting from my phone at the moment. I'll see if I can get some pics up later on tonight. 

I can't really go much further on it until I get the parts, because I don't know how big to cut the pockets and other areas. Stay tuned for pics.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Here are some of the pics of the machine work. I took these pics wth my cell phone, so please excuse the poor quality. I tried to take them in progression while I was working on it. Like I said in the update last night, I can't really do much more until I get my parts because It's hard to build without them. I did find a dimensional drawing of the optics, but i couldn't really find anything else. I also don't know if the potentiometer is built in to the buckpuck itself or external. I'm going to have to figure out a way to incorporate that as well.

I didn't draw up any plans or anything. I just got a general ida of what I have to have and worked freely in that direction. I used nikels because they mesure about 21mm in diameter and worked around that. The buckpuck dimensions say roughly 3/4x3/4x7/16 thick, so that's what the area in the back is for. The little door that goes on the top will be the cover for those. I might use copper for the stars. I'm trying to figure out how to make some sort of removable portion forthe stars.

Can the thermal adhesive be removed once it is glued? The reason I want to possibly make some sort of inert for the stars is because i don't want to glue the stars to the interior of the housing and then not be able to remove them. If the insert is made, I can remove the insert and make another one to put in with a possibilty of some different stars. Thos way the housing is not ruined.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Looking good:thumbsup: 
How long did that take you?


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

don't say, it will only upset him ;-)


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

MrLee said:


> don't say, it will only upset him ;-)


To late:cryin:
I admit mines taking ages, I've had so much to do
I've had to make:
A mount for my dial indicator
Clamps for my rotary table
Mounts for my digital scales
Strengthen the table that the mini mill sits on
Wait for the postman to deliver a load of stuff..

Keep the Mrs happy this week.. failed before the week started.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

It took me about 2 hours in a manual mill. Some stuff I could have done in the cnc, but it takes me longer to program it and all than it does to just knock it out manually. 

I am hoping to buy myself one of those little mini mills soon. I have a small lathe but no mill. Hopefully my budget will permit me to get one soon.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

duplicate post


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

cncwhiz said:


> It took me about 2 hours in a manual mill. Some stuff I could have done in the cnc, but it takes me longer to program it and all than it does to just knock it out manually.
> 
> I am hoping to buy myself one of those little mini mills soon. I have a small lathe but no mill. Hopefully my budget will permit me to get one soon.


You could easily sell a few housings that have been knocked out via cnc.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Yeah I could maybe see about getting onto that. Like I was saying in my last post, I really wish I had a mill at home to work with. I did this off the clock at work. I make knives too and I need one bad, just haven't gotten one yet. 

This really isn't that complicated to me. I love doing "freelance" kind of work like this. It's a whole lot easier to do the work when I don't have to follow any dimensions to a T and I can just kind of work towards what I have in mind. Still have to do the pocket work and drill wire holes and also build a mount for the bars. Then I guess I will start on the helmet light too. 

Just ordered the LEDs and ther parts. Fixing to go look for batteries now.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Should get my light parts today. LED Supply sent the parts USPS, so I don't think there is a way i can track them. Acording to them, they should be here today though. The batteries will be here tomorrow. They are FEDX and I have tracking info on those. Maybe I can get at least the headlight up and running by next week. I'll post some pics tonight if the parts come in.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

ooh, you guys and your lathes, I get so jealous, looking at my dremel :thumbsup:

as for non-permanently attaching stars - I'm using Troutie's approach with his  Hammond  light, of using thermal grease and screwing the stars onto the backing plate. I'm using #4-40 screws cut down and the equivalent tap, plus some CPU thermal grease I have kicking around. Part of the reason behind that is to make upgrading to newer emitters easier in the future


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

mattthemuppet said:


> ooh, you guys and your lathes, I get so jealous, looking at my dremel :thumbsup:
> 
> as for non-permanently attaching stars - I'm using Troutie's approach with his  Hammond  light, of using thermal grease and screwing the stars onto the backing plate. I'm using #4-40 screws cut down and the equivalent tap, plus some CPU thermal grease I have kicking around. Part of the reason behind that is to make upgrading to newer emitters easier in the future


That's a great idea. I saw that stuff in radio shack the other day and I wish I would have picked some up. I'm still contemplating what to do. I haven't been able to go very far with the project because I haven't had the internal parts I'm waiting on. If I get them today that will make things alot easier.

I did start on the helmet light housing. The body itself will be three pieces and then there will be a mount pedestal. I got pictures and I'll post those up later.

One thing I have kind of neglected to even think about is switches. I didn't see anything I wanted in radioshack the other day and I don't really know any other place that has a decent selection besides them. I see some pretty nice switches and controls on these other housings people have, but don't know where to get them. I'd like to go without ordering and waiting another week to get stuff.

I can already see that I am rushing trying to get this project completed so I can go back to riding. I have a feeling I will be remaking one or both light housings over to better suit my needs. For now I will just use them as they are and deal with them being kind of rigged. They will still look good, but I want to really sit down and take my time buiding a very nice housing system that has everything exactly the way I want it. I just know that I will have to wait with orders and things so I will probably make something out of these to use in the mean time.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cncwhiz said:


> I have a feeling I will be remaking one or both light housings over to better suit my needs. For now I will just use them as they are and deal with them being kind of rigged. They will still look good, but I want to really sit down and take my time buiding a very nice housing system that has everything exactly the way I want it.


A near perfect description of the bug that bites when you start doing DIY lights! :thumbsup:


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

cncwhiz said:


> That's a great idea. I saw that stuff in radio shack the other day and I wish I would have picked some up. I'm still contemplating what to do. I haven't been able to go very far with the project because I haven't had the internal parts I'm waiting on. If I get them today that will make things alot easier.
> 
> I did start on the helmet light housing. The body itself will be three pieces and then there will be a mount pedestal. I got pictures and I'll post those up later.
> 
> One thing I have kind of neglected to even think about is switches. I didn't see anything I wanted in radioshack the other day and I don't really know any other place that has a decent selection besides them. I see some pretty nice switches and controls on these other housings people have, but don't know where to get them. I'd like to go without ordering and waiting another week to get stuff.


no worries, wasn't my idea  I know what you mean about waiting for stuff - I have my housing finished and everything bar the MS cable on the boat from China  Thankfully, my trusty'n'dim halogen is still working fine, but it's frustrating.

I bought  this  that cytoe used on his BFG Jr light. You can get other colour status LEDs (not sure how you'd use them with Buckpucks, one reason I went with a b2flex) or unilluminated. It's a little pricey, but it's waterproof and doesn't require silicone/ rubber domes to waterproof it like others. Shipping took ~3days and only cost $2.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Ok, here are the helmet light progress pics. I atarted out with aluminum round stock and did the turning work. There are three seperate pieces. The body itself, the cap that goes on the front that holds the lexan and is secured by four 2-56 screws, and the rear piece which is also secured with 2-56 screws. The piece of square stock in the first pic will be the pedestal.

My parts did not come today, Maybe tomorrow.

The blue on the cap in the second pic is layout blue. I had it on there to layout the screw holes.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

wow, just wow.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Must be nice to have access to sophisticated CNC equipment and have the education to use it skillfully. Nice, simple design. Do you also have access to anodizing equipment or services in your job?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I appreciate the kind words folks. I work with an old toolmaker who is 75 years old. He always said that "the only thing a machinist has is his pride."

I take that to heart and do the best I can on everything. I think one of the positives of this trade is that you become overly critical of yourself. I can't build anything out of wood because it takes me so long to get everything just right. It causes you to become a perfectionist in every little thing you do :lol: 

I'd be glad to help anyone who has a question about this kind of stuff. 

Thinkbike - No I do not have an anodizing setup here at work. I do know a company that does and I have had some work done by them on occasion. I was kind of wondering to myself if it would be worth it to anodize these pieces or just use these until I can design something better and get them done. I have seen some of the discussion here about whether or not a surface coating helps with heat transfer.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

cncwhiz said:


> I appreciate the kind words folks. I work with an old toolmaker who is 75 years old. He always said that "the only thing a machinist has is his pride."
> 
> I take that to heart and do the best I can on everything. I think one of the positives of this trade is that you become overly critical of yourself. I can't build anything out of wood because it takes me so long to get everything just right. It causes you to become a perfectionist in every little thing you do :lol:
> 
> ...


Hey who needs perfection when it comes to wood 
I knocked this up last weekend so i can work on the mini mill, its not perfect but it's bloody rigid..


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> Hey who needs perfection when it comes to wood
> I knocked this up last weekend so i can work on the mini mill, its not perfect but it's bloody rigid..


Man that's nice. I want one of those things so bad. What brand and model is that?

For what it's worth, I'll offer some advice. I can't tell for sure but it looks like you have that endmill in a drill chuck? If so, it will cut alot more true if you put it in a endmill holder or collet. What kind of spindle does your machine have? Is it a R8 collet or morse taper? If an R8 collet, you can get a set of normal size collets for pretty cheap. I only use drill chucks for drilling, and on top of that I haven't seen many regular (Jacobs type with key) that turn very true. I only use a keyless most of the time. They tend to run truer.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

It is in a 3MT end mill holder..
I only put the little end mills in the drill chuck when i need to plunge a small hole...

It's an axminster (Sieg) SX2, 500watt brushless motor, Belt driven.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

cncwhiz said:


> For what it's worth, I'll offer some advice. I can't tell for sure but it looks like you have that endmill in a drill chuck? If so, it will cut alot more true if you put it in a endmill holder or collet. What kind of spindle does your machine have? Is it a R8 collet or morse taper? If an R8 collet, you can get a set of normal size collets for pretty cheap. I only use drill chucks for drilling, and on top of that I haven't seen many regular (Jacobs type with key) that turn very true. I only use a keyless most of the time. They tend to run truer.


this is like another language to me. I think I speak French better than Machinist 

where did you get the tap for those #2 bolts? What did you use to cut them, a drill press?


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

cncwhiz said:


>


Looking really nice 

What is the back part for?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

MrLee said:


> Looking really nice
> 
> What is the back part for?


So you can covert it to a pepper pot?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

MrLee said:


> Looking really nice
> 
> What is the back part for?


The back part is actually what I had to have in order to have something for the pedestal legs to attach too. I'm just about done with it now, I'll post some pictures later on tonight. They will explain what I just tried to explain a little better. All that's left to do is come up with some sort of switch, mill the pocket for the buckpuck in the body, and drill the wiring holes through it.

Matt,

2-56 taps are available. Check your local supply place or look online. The smaller the tap, the more fragile though, so don't get heavy handed with them. Easy to break one. If you have never broken a tap, you don't want to. Almost impossible to get them out without goofing up the hole.

The drill size is a #51, which measures .067" +/-

Yes, I did use a drill press for these. Like I stated above though, I inly use keyless chucks and the table is indicated "dead nuts" or near perfect zero. I usually do my drill work in a mill, but I don't have one of those at home yet -like I said.

As far as taps, if you want to see small check out a 0-80.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Ok here are some build pics. I worked on the pedestal today and got it mounted up to the housing rear cap. I also cut the lexan and finished some of the other stuff.





































All my stuff came today. I have a question. How do know which solder connection is positive and which is neg on the stars? Also, they appear to have a small drop of flux? Is that what I see? I was wondering of whether or not I needed to flux.


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

Wow! Your CNC skill is really amazing.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

klynk said:


> Wow! Your CNC skill is really amazing.


Nice work for sure. I am pretty sure it is all manually milled and turned.

The reality is that manual machining is often more difficult than CNC machining, particularly when cutting angles and radius shapes.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

The amazing thing is this project is only 6 days old, I wish mine went as fast


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

It is all done on a manual mill and lathe. I do run CNC, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is often quicker for me to knock something out in a manual machine than it is to go through the programming and setup involved with a CNC. Most machinists that run CNC had a long background in manual stuff anyway. There are a few folks that are "button pushers" - they run the parts through the machines, but somebody else programs the machine. Many high volume production facilities are like this. I do programming work myself. 

I have just about finished the light. The only thing I have left to do is fit the lexan lens, and go and find a switch. I'm fixing to run to a couple of auto parts stores and maybe radio shack and see if I can find one small enough. I already have the potentiometer in one side of the rear housing cap, maybe I can find a switch to fit the other side. If not, I can always put the switch in line running to the light. I'd rather put it in the cap though. 

Pics to come tonight.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Have you switched it on yet? - I think you'll be in for a nice surprise


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

MrLee said:


> The amazing thing is this project is only 6 days old, I wish mine went as fast


Me to!!!
I spent half the day mounting a digital scale to my mill today, I still have to do the Y axis, all so i can cut the fins on my light..


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Ok. Got this thing pretty much wrapped up. The only thing left to do now really is solder all connections and cut the lexan piece to go up under the lens cap.

Here are some final pre-assembly pics.

You can see the pocket cut in the rear of the housing body for the buckpuck. 
Also note the rear cap interior with the pocket milled for the potentiometer and also the drilled hole (clearance for the back of the switch I found). I got the switch at radio shack. Didn't really want this particular one but I had to settle with it. The next light will have some parts ordered offline for better selection.










Here's a close-up of the rear pocket for the buckpuck. Note the relief on one of the sides for the wires, and also the hole running through the rear (inside the pocket) going to the front of the housing where the two emitter wired will come to.










Here's a pic of the wires coming through from the rear










Here's a closeup of the tail cap pockets. For what it's worth, I'm embarrased about that crapshoot of a pocket drilled for the switch. I don't have a mill here at home so a drilled hole had to do it. A pocket would have been much better.










And here's the back side of the tailcap. The switch and the potentiometer are in place but not tight or orientated right. Just a pic to show the progress.










One final note about this particular one is that it is really too small. If the body was just a tad bigger it would have been alot easier. I haven't done the final assembly yet but I know it is going to be a pain :madman: It will look good when finished though. Mr. Lee, I haven't fired it up yet. Can't wait.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cncwhiz said:


> One final note about this particular one is that it is really too small. If the body was just a tad bigger it would have been alot easier.


IMO a housing is only too small if it can not dissipate the heat of the LEDs. Yes, they might be more difficult to build, but just like so many of the high end parts we use on our bikes, small, light, well designed components are a joy to see and use.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Vancbiker said:


> IMO a housing is only too small if it can not dissipate the heat of the LEDs. Yes, they might be more difficult to build, but just like so many of the high end parts we use on our bikes, small, light, well designed components are a joy to see and use.


+1:thumbsup:


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Finished pics 




























Looks like I have a little light leakage between the front lens cap and body. The reason is because the Lexan was a little thicker than .125" (1/8"). I only cut the relief in the back of the cap that deep, so the lens sticks out a little. When pressed against the body of the housing it leaves about a .005" gap. That's ok though. I figure it looks pretty good for a first light. Now to finish the bar headlight over Thanksgiving hopefully.

Just want to say thanks for everyone's help.

I'll try to get some beam shots up soon.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Nice first light. 
They only get better and more complicated. 
Some things to think about are nicer switches and different thickness  polycarb.
Nice lenses, some with anti-reflective coatings, can be found  here.
This is for an on/off (SPST)  switch.
They also have momentary of the same size.
One of the most diffucult things with starting out building is finding and refining parts (switches, connectors, optics, drivers, etc.)
Nice thing about this board is the information is here if you read through the DIY Light Datatbase that the top of the page or you can ask and someone here can link you to some options fairly quickly. :thumbsup:


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

I bet you are glad you decided on the 1000mA buckpuck afterall?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Yes, I am, but I will say that the potentiometers aren't really that useful. from 0-20% of the turn there is some increase in light, but once it gets to about 20% it is pretty much the same from about there to 100% clockwise. 

I think I kind of overdid the "versatility" lol. That's ok though, I'm glad I did it for the experience.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Nice work:thumbsup: 
Show-off 

I finished mounting my scales to my mill today so I'm ready to mill the fins on my light..
Hali lula


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

cncwhiz said:


> Yes, I am, but I will say that the potentiometers aren't really that useful. from 0-20% of the turn there is some increase in light, but once it gets to about 20% it is pretty much the same from about there to 100% clockwise.
> 
> I think I kind of overdid the "versatility" lol. That's ok though, I'm glad I did it for the experience.


I'm guessing you got the prewired pucks, so the pots should be ok.

Could be because the output of the led isn't linear to the output current, your eyes don't work that way either.

If it was me, I think I would just of used a switch and a small trim pot to preset the low level and be done with it - something to think about for your bar light.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

In some thread out there are suggestions and links for pots that work better with the buckpucks. Thinking that thread was last fall. Maybe someone remembers or knows what the pot was that was being recommended..........


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Nice lights! I hope I can make something as nice once I get my X3 CNC conversion finished.

Regarding pots for the buckpuck, these have worked well for me:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/634/682.pdf
P16NP472MAB15

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/P16NP472MAB15/?qs=vnwGVgFuQiYoT6ZPBNEw0A%3d%3d

No switch needed with a pot either. True though that there is a good deal of dead space with the pot dimming, that is why a low-off-high switch may be a better way to go - less fiddly as well.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I like the idea of a high/low/off switch. I would be more happy with that vs the pots I have. 

I guess my first night ride will be Tuesday night. I'm looking forward to it. 

I tried to get some beam shots for you guys, but I have no idea how to do it correctly. I don't have a very good digital cam, maybe 7MP, and it just isn't built to do night shots. I guess I need a really good camera to do it. Just take my word for it, The thing is insanely bright. I only have my Surefire 6P LED flashlight to compare it to, but it still is very bright. Also, I'm using a 12 volt DC wall transformer to play with it. The battery I got for it is 14.8V 2600 mAh. That should make it a bit brighter. This is just one of the Cree stars, I can't imagine all three at once. It's going to be rediculous with the headlight and the other two as well as this helmet light.

Still have to come up with a power cord. I think I saw someone using RCA stereo plugs somewhere. Would those be ok? The jacks seem really easy to use and clean looking. I have a few on hand. I will have to get the female ones, but I do have the regular plugs which are male.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Nice light cncwiz, I also want a mini mill as I only have a very small vertical slide on my very small lathe. I started making one yesterday out of old bike parts(really).

Just a thought but the pot may work a bit better once the Buckpuck gets it's full 14.8volts.

My first ever light has a Buckpuck and I use a high/low switch and at least that way you can choose a resistor for the low and know what you will get every time you hit the switch.


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

cncwhiz said:


> I tried to get some beam shots for you guys, but I have no idea how to do it correctly. I don't have a very good digital cam, maybe 7MP, and it just isn't built to do night shots.


If you are lucky your camera may still work for beamshots - all you need is a manual mode on your camera, MP does not really matter. A lot of point and shoots don't have manual mode, but some do. The ISO, F-stop and shutter speed are the things that need to be set. The details on the settings are here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=568224&highlight=camera+settings


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

HuffyPuffy said:


> If you are lucky your camera may still work for beamshots - all you need is a manual mode on your camera, MP does not really matter. A lot of point and shoots don't have manual mode, but some do. The ISO, F-stop and shutter speed are the things that need to be set. The details on the settings are here:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=568224&highlight=camera+settings


Ok thanks. I'll see if I can check out the camera tonight. If it will do this maybe i can get some beam shots up.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I also have a question. I was talking to one of the electrical maintenance guys here at work about my setup. He was telling me that the pot probably takes alot away from the light. He said any type of dimmer is fine when it is up to full speed, but down low the resistance is "futile" lol. Considering how I said the pots weren't that useful, he said if it were him he would just take them out all together. He said the absence of the pot may actually make the light brighter depending on the draw from it.

Thoughts?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cncwhiz said:


> I also have a question. I was talking to one of the electrical maintenance guys here at work about my setup. He was telling me that the pot probably takes alot away from the light. He said any type of dimmer is fine when it is up to full speed, but down low the resistance is "futile" lol. Considering how I said the pots weren't that useful, he said if it were him he would just take them out all together. He said the absence of the pot may actually make the light brighter depending on the draw from it.
> 
> Thoughts?


The pot controlling the buckpuck only provides an analog input to the current control circuit in the driver. Leaving the pot out will not increase the output of the light. It sounds like the pot you have has too high of resistance and is a linear taper pot. An audio or logarithmic taper 1k pot will let you use more range of rotation to control the output. Personally I prefer using a fixed resistance and a switch giving just a high/low setting.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

So it's been a week since the first light, there must be a new light by now? ;-)


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

MrLee said:


> So it's been a week since the first light, there must be a new light by now? ;-)


I did some more pocket work on the headlight housing and got it almost ready to put together. Sorry for the delay, I had a busy Thanksgiving holiday and I haven't been able to update this thread. I'll post some pics in a day or two with the progress.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

First here are some pictures with the helmet light mounted to my helmet. It worked great, and I was really impressed with how it did not overheat (as long as I was moving) and the amount of light. I see now that three of these lights putting out close to 3000 lumens - all running at full power - is really too much. I will probably use the combination for a little while and then maybe sell one or both of the lights to build another project. Not sure yet what I'm going to do.

I doubled a small piece of cardboard and stuck it up under the mount and zip tied it. It worked fine. I used RCA cable plugs as the connectors, and they seemed to work fine as well. I'm going to have to do some searching and find some better or similar plugs and also some better switches. I'll probably order that stuff online for the headlight so that I can get the parts I really want. As I have said, now that I have a light I'm not in a hurry to finish the headlight.




























Headlight Progress pics-

In the first pic here you can see the reflector butcher job I did to create some sort of mount. It isn't finished and locked on yet. I needed something 31.8mm, as this is the size of my bar near the stem. This will be temporary until I can build or buy something better.

One of the curses of being a machinist for a living is the fact that since this is what I do everyday, I do get tired of it. I would rather hack up a reflector mount than take the time to build a nice mount out of aluminum :lol: Those in the trade probably know what I'm saying. 










Pocket work for the drivers and stars and optics



















Here are some pics of the lexan cover and one of it sitting on the housing. No holes have been tapped yet for the screws and no holes have been drilled for wires.



















And lastly, a pic with the emitter stars sitting in their space, and the drivers in theirs



















This light, just like the other is going to pose a problem with the mounting of switches. I did not figure into the design a big enough housing so that I could mount them, so this one may hae an external switch. Thinking about losing the pots all together and doing an off/low/high switch.

In other Good news - I have a nice camcorder that has a still shot camera. I think it has the manual settings I need so I can get some beam shots. I'll see what I can figure out with that.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm going to save Mr Lee asking this question:
How are you sealing it all up? 

Looking good..


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> I'm going to save Mr Lee asking this question:
> How are you sealing it all up?
> 
> Looking good..


Looks like you are fishing for ideas! ;-)


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Depends on what kind of riding you do, but a helmet light does a different job than the bar light, you can always just turn them down if you don't need the output.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

I haven't gotten the sealing thing straightened out yet. It has been the least of my concerns to tell the truth. I would have like to have used an o-ring for the lens cap and rear cap on the helmet light, and I had some laying around. The problem was that once I drilled the holes for the cap screws, they went right through the would-be grooves for the o-rings. so I simply took a small piece of thin rubber and made a gasket. 

This all part of the reason I say the lights are really too small. Too much going on and not enough room to make everything work. I'm looking forward to the next design. 

I guess for the headlight I will use o-ring cord, but I need to see about where to get it. I haven't looked through the list of suppliers, but I plan to shortly.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

MrLee said:


> Looks like you are fishing for ideas! ;-)


like to go with the majority...


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## hernluis (Nov 16, 2008)

I am new to led building but this thread has inspired me to build a similar light. 2 xpg 3up's off one battery. I want the mode function so i can switch between brightness levels. Can i use one driver for the two or do i need to get two separate drivers? I will also be runing a 4 18650 light pack. thanks for any help


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

With that battery pack running at 12.8v, you will need two drivers running the Triple XPGs in parallel. You won't get much more than one hour of runtime on high (1000ma).

Each Triple uses 9.6v, so you have to run each off the battery separately. If you got 2 of those packs and ran them in series, you could run both triples in series with one driver.

There are actually many other answers to this problem, and you get into boost drivers etc..

I'm just trying to keep it simple.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

You can use one driver, but you won't be able to use the buckpuck with a 4 18650 battery (assuming all wired in series) as there is not enough voltage, you could wire them in parallel, but then you'd be lacking current. 

You can use a boost driver though, but depends what run time you are looking for.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Two series wired triples wired in series and then drive it with a Maxflex.:thumbsup:


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

odtexas said:


> Two series wired triples wired in series and then drive it with a Maxflex.:thumbsup:


I'm currently playing with this boost driver from DX - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26106


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

Here are some cell phone quality night shots. Did 7 miles tonight and it took me 1 hour and 5 minutes, no hiccups with the light. I have no idea what settings a cell phone camera are, but at least yall will have an idea of what it looks like until I can get the official shots up.



















The short stump thing that is white in color is about 25 feet away. There is a broken limb hanging right above it.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

MrLee said:


> I'm currently playing with this boost driver from DX - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26106


Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with that driver.:thumbsup:


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## hernluis (Nov 16, 2008)

what is the difference between using a boost and buck? why use one and not the other? so confusing. now im thinking of building two separate xpg 3up lights so i will need two drivers. what would i have to do inorder to use both lights on a single battery, what voltage/amps would i need on the battery for run time say 2-2.5hrs? thanks


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Boost driver will boost the voltage, so say you only have a 7.4v battery pack and your leds need 9.9v (3xXPG) the driver will boost the voltage to 9.9v

Buck does the opposite.. If your battery pack is 14.4v and your leds need 9.9v (3xXPG) it knocks of the access voltage..

Assuming your using a buck driver with 3 XPG's running at 1amp.. if you used a 14.4v 2500mah battery you will get 2.5 hours easy.. should get closer to 3.5hours doing some quick maths..
LED
1 XPG 3.3volts @ 1amp
3 x 3.3 = 9.9
9.9 x 1 = 9.9 so 10watts
BATTERY
14.4v 2500mah
14.4 x 2.5 = 36 so 36watts

36/10 = 3.6 hours

You also need to subtract driver inefficiancy so lets call it 95% of 3.6
3.4 hours..

I think thats correct, if not somebody will correct me.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

IMO you should try to use a buck type driver if possible. If you are locked into a certain combo of battery and LED that requires a boost driver, then you'll have to go that way. Buck drivers are typically more efficient than boost. Drivers are at their most efficient level when the battery voltage and the LED voltage are nearly matched. In a boost driver your efficiency decreases as the batteries deplete. Not the best scenario. A buck driver increases in efficiency as the batteries deplete.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Vancbiker said:


> IMO you should try to use a buck type driver if possible. If you are locked into a certain combo of battery and LED that requires a boost driver, then you'll have to go that way. Buck drivers are typically more efficient than boost. Drivers are at their most efficient level when the battery voltage and the LED voltage are nearly matched. In a boost driver your efficiency decreases as the batteries deplete. Not the best scenario. A buck driver increases in efficiency as the batteries deplete.


+1.........


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> You also need to subtract driver inefficiancy so lets call it 95% of 3.6
> 3.4 hours..
> 
> I think thats correct, if not somebody will correct me.


being a picky pedant that I am, efficiency is likely to be ~90% (b2flex is 91% driving 3 LEDs at 1A from a 14.8V pack), so perhaps 3 1/4h. Still awesome though


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

odtexas said:


> Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with that driver.:thumbsup:


Not bad so far, modified for a 953mA output driving 4 xpg, seems ok if you can live with it having flashing/strobe nonsense.


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## hernluis (Nov 16, 2008)

i was thinking boost driver because, lower voltage batteries are cheaper. But either way i wanted to get a really high capacity battery so that i can run two or one xpg triples off of it. what about voltage regulators or were they current regulators i cant remember, will i need these?


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

hernluis said:


> i was thinking boost driver because, lower voltage batteries are cheaper. But either way i wanted to get a really high capacity battery so that i can run two or one xpg triples off of it. what about voltage regulators or were they current regulators i cant remember, will i need these?


You really need to get a good sized battery, one that's bigger than your requirement. I wanted to cheap out too, but I'm glad I didn't. I heard that buck drivers are more efficient than boost drivers. I don't know if it is the case, maybe some of the other experts can add to this.


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## cncwhiz (Sep 8, 2010)

hernluis said:


> i was thinking boost driver because, lower voltage batteries are cheaper. But either way i wanted to get a really high capacity battery so that i can run two or one xpg triples off of it. what about voltage regulators or were they current regulators i cant remember, will i need these?


You really need to get a good sized battery, one that's bigger than your requirement. I wanted to cheap out too, but I'm glad I didn't. I heard that buck drivers are more efficient than boost drivers. I don't know if it is the case, maybe some of the other experts can add to this.


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