# Speedhub COG removal for Bloody Knuckles!



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Presenting some tips for Rohloff Speedhub owners who have careers as hand models, and can't afford any shaved skin.










One of the Speedhub's worst traits is its threaded-on cog. Unlike a splined cassette, Herr Rohloff designed his sprocket to screw on like a lid onto a jar. With the decision obvious between "pedaling makes der sprocket _fester_ (tighter)" and "pedaling makes der sprocket looser", us end users have been handed a difficult task come time for removal.

For starters, _always_ use a liberal amount of anti-seize compound on the threads of any cog you install on your Speedhub. Recently, Rohloff began applying anti-seize at the factory (to both stock & aftermarket cogs). However, there are a good many in service that have a bit of corrosion which, every day, grows the bond between cog and hub.

_*"Have you lubed your cog lately???"*_









My cogs have been lubed and trouble-free... until last weekend, when my wife, a hammer and I together destroyed a Lifu chain whip and still couldn't budge the cog fused to her hub. It was time to get serious!

Below are the new tools for the job! My minimum equipment list, if you will.

The list is comprised of: (1) Leather work gloves (2) Park SR-2 chain whip, $27 (2) 24mm combination wrench, $16 (4) Permatex anti-seize lubricant (5) Rear wheel QR skewer (6) Rohloff 8501 sprocket removal tool (7 - optional) Replacement cog (8) Fender washer (9) Twist tie.










The 24mm combo wrench and Park SR-2 replace an adjustable wrench and the Lifu chain whip. The leverage advantage of the SR-2 is obvious; the Craftsman wrench has narrower, flatter jaws than the adjustable wrench, making the next step easier.









The *First Rule of Busted Knuckle Prevention* is to not let your tools slip. To that end, use the QR skewer to make an adapter & washer sandwich...









...and assemble everything on the hub like so.









This serves two purposes: It locks the Rohloff cog remover securely to the hub, and it clamps the wrench to the adapter!









_*Schwinggg!* Yes?!?_









The same busted knuckle rule applies to the chain whip. To get as much chain wrap as you can, and to buy some insurance against it slipping, use the twist tie to hold the loose end of the chain against the tool. _Voila!_ The twist tie doesn't carry any of the load and doesn't need to be very tight.









With everything (relatively) securely held in place, and with wrench & whip in some variation of a 10 & 2 orientation, slip on those gardening gloves and let it fly!

Keep in mind that all the downward force should be directed to the chain whip. The 24mm wrench is only leveraging the internals against free rotation. Any excessive pressure applied to the wrench is wasted, and will only stress the hub internals. Ideally, the box end of the wrench would be connected by a cable to the floor directly beneath it, and no downward force would be applied to it at all.

So find a balance, lay off, whatever... but reef on the chain whip, not the wrench!









Eye on the prize! Not having to fret over slipping tools, this time 'round, the cog came off in seconds, with no assistance from wife nor hammer. Most excellent!
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## logbiter (Dec 30, 2003)

what, no pics of bloody knuckles? I was hoping for something like those trainer/ninja hex wrench shots 

very nice tutorial, especially about just reefing on the chain whip.:thumbsup:

one of these days I hope to grab rohloff.


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

Yet another one of your perfect informative tutorials! Great work and keep it up!  :thumbsup:


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

logbiter said:


> what, no pics of bloody knuckles? I was hoping for something like those trainer/ninja hex wrench shots


Funny how few posts come up when you search the forums for "ankle hex wrench". Ewww!

First time around on this cog, I was actually expecting busted chops from the rim suddenly giving, folding into a _Nate's Face_ taco. Shoulda maybe put a Hannibal Lecter mask on, instead!

If not that, certainly a hernia.


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## VernDog (Jan 17, 2004)

*cog removal*

Nater,
good advice for sure, as I had a b-t-h of a time removing a cog a while back.
Hoever I had applied a little heat from a mini torch and tapped witha brass mallet to help "shock" the cog.

If we could somehow convince rohloff to do a small engineering change to the driver/cog to go to a spline and lockring set up, and be able adapt the hubs already out there to the "new spline lockring" style

Verndogger


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

*ohh yeah..been there, done that..*

Almost busted a valve trying to remove a cog from a Rohloff about a year ago.

Like you, I "gotta-bigga-hammer" in the shape of a longer lever setup.. :thumbsup:

Those Rolly cogs can be a b!tch to get off if they have been on there for a while.

R.


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## tat2niner (Sep 20, 2006)

I was cussing Nate for a bit tonight and then I was singing his praises. I used the posted technique to break the cog loose and it finally worked. Greased it up with the anti seize and I feel better now. Skinned a knuckle but it was well worth it. Thanks Nate for the great tutorial. :thumbsup:


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

tat2niner said:


> Skinned a knuckle but it was well worth it.


Hope it wasn't as bad as this guy:

http://www.aspinock.com/7x10minilathe/Real-Old/ring_injury.jpe


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## ShaunW (Sep 19, 2005)

Try pouring boiling water on the cog.. that worked for me..


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

ShaunW said:


> Try pouring boiling water on the cog.. that worked for me..


Hmmm... interesting. I suppose warming it with a heat gun would have similar results, without the mess.


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## UN-COG-KNEE-TOE (Mar 7, 2008)

*Use a long lever*

I modified my Park SR-2 making it 48" long, I secure the Cog Removal tool with a Bolt on Skewer and then secure the wheel in a Large Heavy WILTON Vise. I find the Vise works better than a Box Wrench for me. As soon as i break the Cog free, i Quickly remove the wheel from the Vise, because you are working upside down, the Hub Oil WILL drip out when the Cog breaks loose as the Cog is part of the Oil Seal system and Holds the Oil in.
The 48" Lever really makes EASY work of Cog removal, i was surprised just how Easy it was to Remove the cog this way, i can do it with 1 hand!
I struggled for several years before i figured out a worthy procedure for doing this. There are quite a few worthy methods for cog removal, this one works best for me.


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## 1stiski (Dec 4, 2007)

Great knowledge before my purchase of the Rohloff. :thumbsup:


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## BIGfatED (Apr 26, 2005)

I have decided to run my bike SS for the winter. Seems as if it would be a good idea to pull the cog off and maintenance the thread interface just because. Thanks for the heads up.


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## danger gadget (Mar 31, 2008)

Just discovered this thread and wish I had in 2006 when I first changed Rohloff cogs! I made my own chain whip about as long as UN-COG-KNEE-TOE's one (ooops put away the rulers!!!) from some old (BIG TOUGH PC1 SINGLESPEED) chain and an iron bar with 3 drilled holes. 
Like him I also clamp the Cog removal tool in a vice once I've clamped the sandwich of tool and speedhub together with the skewer - that way you don't need a wife. As we know, a Vice is cheaper than a Wife.
I've used grease for anti-sieze but that wasn't good enough - does anyone have an opinion on the best stuff?


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## Lazybiker (Feb 22, 2010)

*Bust my Rohloff hub casing with first time removal of cog*

I wish I had read this thread before. Yesterday I tried to remove my first cog. Only have ridden 1300 km with my MTB when my dealer changed the chain. It hopped over the teeth like a frog over stepping stones.
After having changed Maillard freewheels, Shimano and SRAM casettes for about 30 years I thought nothing of changing/turning the cog on my year-old Rohloff.

Just after having chipped off the profile of the Hub-casing I learned that Mr. Rohloff had in his wisdom decided to fix the cog to the hub with a thread. How blatently stupid can you be!

Making the best and most complicated internal hub gear in the world and than constructing the only part that needs frequent maintenance so idiotic! Hail Shimano/SRAM-Sachs and Campagnolo for their improvements over the old Pignon/Freewheel threaded fixation like Maillard.

I was determined to buy a new touring bike for the holidays with a Rohloff, but now will stick to the old derailleur system. I just don't want to think about anything going bust (like only a cog....) in Poland or further. On every streetcorner you can get a derailleur and cassette fixed or newly installed. Try that with a Rohloff.....

Rohloff only for MTB. IN wich it is great. Save the cogs.

My cog is still not removed. Tomorow it will be at my dealers.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Early on, I mangled the aluminium mating tabs for the cog tool on one of my hubs - but there is still enough material there for the tool to hold on if you are careful. Since then, I have not had any issues removing the cog with a standard chain whip and a wrench (and cog tool).

I use copper based anti-seize. The hub threads are alumunium, so they can corrode against the steel cog and seize. However, the threads are not the same as the Maillard / freewheels, they have a much larger pitch, which prevents the cog from being jammed on too tight by pedal load.

I originally thought the cog interface was a poor choice, but in retrospect, it is fine.

If you replace the chain before it gets to 0.75% wear, the cog will last a long time - almost for ever. One of my cogs is pushing 8 years - and I've had cogs wear out in under a year when I've forgot to check the chain. At least you can flip the cog over to get more life.

My main complaint about the hub is that, as delivered, it is prone to corrosion, especially if you ride in winter with salt. The steel screws (ie: on the torque arm plate) easily corrode into the aluminium hub, as do the cable adjusters. Removing all the steel & threaded parts and re-installing with copper-based anti-seize has made a huge difference. Aluminium-based anti-seize works almost as well, but does not last as long.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks for a great post....:thumbsup: ...I put a link up to it on my blog and I'll be removing my Rohloff cogs this summer to make sure they don't become permanent!...:madman:


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## Lazybiker (Feb 22, 2010)

itsdoable said:


> If you replace the chain before it gets to 0.75% wear, the cog will last a long time - almost for ever. One of my cogs is pushing 8 years - and I've had cogs wear out in under a year when I've forgot to check the chain. At least you can flip the cog over to get more life.


I'll try this. The renewal of the cog is cumbersome to say the least. I have brought the bike to my dealer and he concluded that I was mentally still in the Shimano-mode: I had pushed the wrong way. I had not interpreted the manual wrong, or you can say, I didn't read it well enough. I was under the impression I had to release a lock-ring, so instead of trying to release my Rohloffs cog I fastened it, so damaging the mated teeth of the hub.
My dealer has released the cog the right way and replaced or flipped it.

I feel utterly stupid and not at the same time. The design of the Rohloff is perpendicular to all the other systems on the market for over 2 decades. The cassette-system wasn't developed for fun only.
Well, we'll just have to cope with this design flaw. The hub in itself is very nice to ride with.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

FWIW, I'm working with a Nuvinci that uses thread-on BMX style freewheels. I anticipate the same issue.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Lazybiker said:


> The design of the Rohloff is perpendicular to all the other systems on the market for over 2 decades. The cassette-system wasn't developed for fun only.
> Well, we'll just have to cope with this design flaw. The hub in itself is very nice to ride with.


Threaded cogs have been around longer than freewheels or cassettes, and are still used by fixies/track bikes. The chainwhip was originally designed to remove the cog, long before it was use to stabilize a cassette. However, it is an easy mistake to make these days. But I wouldn't call it a design flaw...



Speedub.Nate said:


> FWIW, I'm working with a Nuvinci that uses thread-on BMX style freewheels. I anticipate the same issue.


I have a current Nuvinci (post ATC) , and it comes with a splined freewheel interface, and a threaded-to-spline adapter. I think the ATC versions have a threaded interface, which would require a tool to remove the freewheel. I'm not sure how I'll remove the spline adapter from the freewheel, I'll probably need a DIY tool. You could just get a new adapter, they look pretty cheap (cast steel).

I actually have a fixed cog on it right now (with a freewheel on a jack shaft). However, the hub itself will freewheel easily, even though it was not really designed to.


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

I know this thread is over 10 years old now, but major fist bump for the guide. I used it to remove my cog yesterday.









Ignore the paracord, that was just a visual reminder to tell Kronk which way to pull the lever.

I tried to do a few things at first, like attaching the paracord to my shoe and making it a literal anchor to the ground. None of those worked. In the end I ended up doing what I used to do when I was removing SS cogs on fixie hubs: repositioning the whip handle close to the handle of the box wrench so I could squeeze them together with my hands to loosen the cog. Still wouldn't come off. I also hit it with the heat gun once everything was together for about 45-60s, warming it up slightly since it was a reasonably cool day yesterday. Once I did the heat gun trick it came off with about 40-50 ft lbs of force - so a lot, but not an unattainable amount for a small woman to achieve. The other nice thing about using the "squeeze together" technique is you can ease the cog and wrench off the hub internals together and then squeeze, so you don't have to worry about damaging the hub internals by accidentally applying force on the internals in the wrong way.

Because of that I give this guide non-bloodied two thumbs up.

The main differences to the OP and what I used yesterday is that the wrench and washer cost $5 combined (thank you Home Depot), and I used Park Tools ASC-1 anti seize compound and the Park Tools SR2.2 wrench instead. I'd also add 25 mL of Rohloff oil (no cleaning oil) to the list of items "optional" in case you spill the oil out when removing the cog.

The only thing I would add to the procedure is to clean the hub engagement to the Rohloff cog tool very, very, very, VERY well. The tool should go all the way in, no gaps remaining. The first time I did this I screwed it up and had to send it to Cycle Monkey to fix it because the tool didn't mate with the splines properly due to a tiny bit of debris that was forcing the tool out. I thought it'd be fine but it wasn't.


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