# 650b tandem Rear Hub / Rim combos (Updated)



## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

*650b rim ideas?*

Hi folks,

I am looking for some advice on a tandem friendly rear hub for our MSC Zion. We stripped the freewheel so the cranks now turn but the wheel doesn't.

We ride quite a lot of short steep technical uphills which are high power even in granny ring. Was too much for the own brand MSC hub.

I had previously posted that it was a 12x165 but I have realised the error. The axle is 167mm x 12 mm. The Droppouts are huge so obviously take up a certain amount of that and when i examined the wheel closer it is just a standard 12x135.

I am still interested in what people ride have had built custom, especially rims etc available ina 27.5 / 650b standard.

Many thanks

Keith

All suggestions gratefully received.

Keith,


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

I would recommend that you just bite the bullet now and get a Chris King stainless axle/ freehub. They are expensive but will hold up better than anything, especially on steep technical climbs. It is better to only spend the money once, rather than buy something that almost works first.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Hi Mactweek, yes that seems to be the most reccomended, and don't mind that expense, especiallly after seeing the price of a Rohloff earlier! Is more a case of what to pair it with!


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Agree with biting the bullet. Get a Rohloff.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

650b rim suggestions? to go on a 36h Chris King stainless body hub


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

FWIW, we're a 360lb team and have had no issues with 32 spokes for our CK hubs. 32 spokes will probably open up rim options.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Okayfine, 

I haven't had much success in finding any 36h bar a velocity blunt 35, which doesn't look all that strong. . 

What rims do you use yourself?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Derby HD or DH.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Very nice, been informed that msc are replacing the hub with a burlier option, i will wait to see what arrives before i hit the button on some ck hubs + DT FR570's. 

The Derby's look nice but looking for a rim i can afford to reorder and have laced up in a couple of days if it gets damaged. save the bike being off the road for too long too.

K


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Roger, TV. The point of reco'ing a Derby DH is the unlikelihood you could damage it. And if you happened to, I'm sure Ray would take care of you quickly. Talk to him about your needs; he is great with customer service and quite knowledgeable. I would also look at Light Bicycle's lineup. Talk with them, too. Either may be able to make changes to the layup which will further decrease the likelihood of the scenario you mention.

Admittedly, I can no longer entertain alloy rims on a mountain bike. CF is so many worlds better; stronger, lighter, stiffer. A better value IMO considering the advantages and how key wheels are to the performance of a bike. For the great divide, I borrowed a CF wheel from a single bike to run in place of the MTX33 on the tandem, which was worth doing.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Partly an evolutionary thing, we saved up for a while for the tandem so things will come in stages. The initial hub got minced in a matter of hours. I believe were getting a stronger one as a replacement. If it were to last for a bit i guess we could save a little longer to look at carbon. 

I've had colleagues at work with road carbon wheels cracking and splitting at the nippes etc, so i hadn't built my faith up too much on them. 

We consider the CK hub an investment just now so even if the aluminium rim does fail over time then we could always lace on a carbon one then.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Understood; I'm not made of money, either, and have to take things in stages.

Remember the fears and discussions about CF mountain bike frames not being up to task? Look at the state of the art now. Ever seen the vid of Santa Cruz testing alloy and CF frames to failure? It's worth watching.

Light Bicycle went through years of refinement after initial runs of its rims had a few failures. I'm pretty sure that's behind them now. Ray's website outlines a near-failure of his product, and he will speak candidly about his experiences with strength and failures. You'd have to do something really dumb to destroy a Derby DH. My money says if you have 40-plus pounds of air in your tire, there is virtually no way you could destroy one on a tandem. But, chat with Ray.

I think the days of purpose-built MTB CF part failures are pretty well behind us. From a trusted mfr, I have more faith in a CF frame or rim than alloy. FWIW...


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

PS:



TerraVenture said:


> We consider the CK hub an investment...


Like I do my rims . And if the need arises, at 35mm internal width, I can run plus size tires on them.

Added: Derby allows (recommends) tire pressure at 10% of rider weight. For us, that would be 27 lbs. I've run under 15 on my single bike with these rims, and in the high teens with no noticeable tire roll. That traction has to be ridden to be believed. I'm surprised to not see any non-fat tandems with wide rims. They seem like they would benefit a tandem even more than a single bike.


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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, I'm at a juncture with carbon frame, too, my wife and son both ride and race so its a constant job keeping up with the maintenance! Road bikes, MTBs and now tandem! It has been great to have an informed chat. Thank you for your comments. 

Keith


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

TerraVenture said:


> What rims do you use yourself?


We run the MTX33 in 26", the wheelset being bought from MTBTandems. Alex doesn't have a 650b wheelset on his site, though.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I build my own wheels, I have used a wide variety of rims including Sun, WTB, Velocity, Surly, etc...

I'm not a big Velocity fan. I think there finish is terrible (anodizing fades) and they leave a ton of aluminum shavings in the rim, and the metal is soft.

WTB rims are solid, I have build all types, never had a problem, I have even reused them for builds and they stay true. Their rims are generally inexpensive, TL Ready, and available most places.

Sun rims are okay, they're heavy, but they're strong.

When looking at wheel builds, I think spoke count is overrated, the strength of the wheels is not in the spokes count, but in the rim design and build. Rims are designed to absorb impacts, the rim flexes inward to avoid bending and the spokes balance the hub in the rim. If you build a wheel too stiff, spokes will break. More spokes add weight, but they don't add significant strength.

I have had no issues with 32h builds and would not hesitate to recommend this build for a tandem; all of my tandem wheels are 32h as are my bikes and munis.

As for hubs, tandems are hard on hubs, high torque and frame twisting are abusive to the drive mechanism and bearings. It's important to have a hub that has a strong hub body and good axle strength/frame contact. I don't trust any hubs, but my favorite and current reigning champ is made by Onyx Racing. Onyx uses a Sprag Clutch in place of pawls, which reduces friction and increases strength, as well as giving the hub nearly instantaneous engagement.

I posted a FAQ of sorts on hubs: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...-clutch-vs-other-types-engagement-970959.html


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

We have King hubs, they're great. They do require maintenance though. The king hubs are laced to 36-hole (gasp!) Nox Farlow rims. The wheels were built by Alex who, in my opinion, is an excellent wheelbuilder. We've had zero issues with the Nox Farlows and, as such, am pricing a Nox build for my SS.

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## TerraVenture (Apr 21, 2015)

Thank you both for the replies. 
MHopton- what size are your wheels?
Ben- thanks, and I will have a look at the other thread. Also what spokes do you use in your builds and do you go 2cross or 3. Many thanks


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Terra, we are on a 29'r Fandango and spokes are 3 cross.










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