# Air springs and clydes, Do they mix?



## Brianjonesphoto (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi All
I'm 6'5" currently 260lbs and thinking about my first new bike in over a decade. I know I will likely drop 20-30LBS with more riding. 7 years ago I was 336 and dropped down to 230 but that was would not be sustainable today with my time committments of family and work (It's easy to make find gym time before having kids, not so much when they are little.)

My current ride is a 2004 Turner Burner with all coil springs(Marzzochi Dirt jumper/Romic900# coil). Back when I built that bike air shocks weren't worth a poop for riders over 200lbs. Fast forward to today. I'm seriously contemplating switching back to more mountain biking as there is too much time commitment for dirtbike riding since those trails are twice as far away. 

I'm eye balling a new stumpjumper ST. I'm afraid that the air springs are going to be a pain in the ass to live with and near impossible to get set up well for small bump XC riding. I'm not one to go for drops and super high speed I have motos for that. 

I'm thinking about buying the bottom end stumpjumper ST, adding a dropper and replacing the fork and shock right off the bat with a ribbon coil and CCDB inline coil. I'm not too worried about the rest of the components as they can be replaced as they fail. I have a nice set of Hope M4's I can swap over from my turner.

I guess what I'm asking for is other Clyde+ riders experiences with getting a good suspension setup with modern air fork/shocks.

Thanks


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## M320 (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm 6'4 270# (started at 315 years ago). I have had my fair share of air shocks (Fox Float, CCDC-CS, DVO topaz) I would look for high pressure piggy back shocks. Cane Creek Double barrel is nice, but service is often and not cheap. I am currently building a SC Hightower with a Fox DPX2, from what research I have done , it seems to be one of the best options out there right now for super clydes. I would stay away from inline shocks (cane creek, fox x2) as most can not handle high pressure that we need. FOX DPS may also be a good option but still think DPX2 would be best. My .02


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

The leverage ratio of the rear suspension determines if it will play well with your mass, you would be looking for a low leverage ratio bike. From what I am told, the only fox shock that will handle the psi required for a proper sag (usually 10-20psi over the rider weight) is the Float DPS. With that being said, what I would do is buy a used RS pike fork and buy an Avalanche Racing open path cartridge for it, and also have him tune your rear shock. 

Service intervals are greatly shortened for fella's our size, so be ready to service air seals and such at least every other season.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> The leverage ratio of the rear suspension determines if it will play well with your mass, you would be looking for a low leverage ratio bike. From what I am told, the only fox shock that will handle the psi required for a proper sag (usually 10-20psi over the rider weight) is the Float DPS. With that being said, what I would do is buy a used RS pike fork and buy an Avalanche Racing open path cartridge for it, and also have him tune your rear shock.
> 
> Service intervals are greatly shortened for fella's our size, so be ready to service air seals and such at least every other season.


This^^ Spec bikes leverage ratio isn't the best for coil unless you are light. Look at Gorilla Gravity there leverage curves ramp up. Contact them and they will hep you out.


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## Brianjonesphoto (Jan 23, 2005)

Well I’m severely limited to bike options at the moment. A lower leverage bike isn’t that simple for me. It’s sort of between the stump jumper and a trance, maybe a Scott genius.


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## Guerrilla Gravity (Feb 26, 2018)

Cerberus75 said:


> This^^ Spec bikes leverage ratio isn't the best for coil unless you are light. Look at Gorilla Gravity there leverage curves ramp up. Contact them and they will hep you out.


Appreciate the shoutout! We agree with this, lower leverage rate bikes are golden for bigger riders, as are larger air can shocks like the Cane Creek DBAir and Fox Float X2 which let you run much lower air pressures in the shock. If you can't fit a big air can shock onto your bike, the DVO Topaz or Rockshox Super Deluxe are going to operate at lower air pressures than a Fox DPS or DPX2.

For reference, you'll find the average leverage rate by dividing the rear wheel travel by the shock stroke. So for The Smash, we have a 2.43 leverage rate since 140 mm travel / 57.5 mm shock stroke = 2.43. This means that the bike will set up with 15-20 psi less than body weight, allowing riders up to around 330-340 lbs to ride our bikes before maxing out the air spring.


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## sirsam84 (Sep 20, 2006)

I’ll definitely vouch for Guerrilla Gravity and the leverage ratios...I have been absolutely loving my Smash. I’m 260 without gear and not a smooth rider, doing drops up to 5-7 feet, and my Rockshox Super Deluxe has been flawless with the Smash ratio, both crush and plush (I think I prefer crush overall). I just got a RS SD coil with a 650lb spring to try that out too...I suspect will work really well with the ratio.

Heard really good things about the Trail Pistol/Pistola as well if shorter travel/more trail oriented is your thing. Gotta day though, the Smash is an incredible climber and still really fun on chill trails as well as chunk or park....


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

A bonus of all the ebike suspension coming out is it is more dialed for weight. Seems like it would be perfect for for a 240+ clyde.

It will also be stiffer due to the stouter chassis, seems like a win!

https://www.ridefox.com/family.php?m=bike&family=36e


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## TNTall (Nov 7, 2016)

This is a great thread. Thanks for the great info!

Not to hijack the thread, but do you suspension experts think a non-stock high speed compression tune is necessary for a Pike fork being used for a 230+ lb rider? All forks I've ever had are very harsh on high speed hits.


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## greenbastard (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm 6'4" 280.
I'm really liking the DVO Topaz shock on my new Banshee Prime.
Was able to get the Banshee Prime frame with DVO Topaz for $1500 shipped from Dirt Merchants. Didn't want the Rockshox Monarch they came with, and couldn't pass up that deal ( $1k frame, $500 shock).

With the DVO you can add volume spacers in both the positive and negative air chambers. I have 3 spacers (+), 2 spacers (-) currently. You can change these out without removing shock from frame. Going to try 1 (-) spacer on my next ride to see how much that effects initial bump sensitivity.
I think I have 250psi in the main chamber, and the secondary bladder is about 195psi (adjustable from 170-200psi) 
No pedal bob even in the open compression setting (though Banshee KS-link is known for great pedaling). 
Actually feels like it climbed more efficiently/faster than my previous hardtail.
I have a MY19 Rockshox Yari Debonair 150mm up front.


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## Knight511 (Nov 26, 2010)

You will need to test ride any bike you want before you drop the cash. I did a demo day on one of our trails with the Stumpy ST, but I found the ride terrible ad rear shock overworked. I have ridden a 2013 Spec Camber since Dec 2012 that has been fantastic. I thought the new FSR-ST would be a great replacement since it is really just the new Camber, but the changes in the suspension linkages and/or the rear shock (I have a RS Monarch now) resulted in the new bike being useless.

You weigh a little less than me, but I would find a shop that carried the model of the ST (at least with the same rear shock) you want and get them to set it up (sag on the suspension) for you and at least get a parking lot ride on it. It may have been that the bike I rode was in need of repair, but the shock was being aired up to well over 300psi (rep said she was hitting 350, but I never saw that on the pump) and sag was near 50%. For reference, I set my Camber up at 265psi to sit at 20% (lower sag because my riding is XC and I like the way it rides set up like this).


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

TNTall said:


> This is a great thread. Thanks for the great info!
> 
> Not to hijack the thread, but do you suspension experts think a non-stock high speed compression tune is necessary for a Pike fork being used for a 230+ lb rider? All forks I've ever had are very harsh on high speed hits.


Im 200lbs and need a custom tune. I have an avalanche cart in my yari. I can add enough LSC to not wollow and dive. And it will blow off on high speed hits


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

Yes, they work on the right bike. As a Clyde that weight runs from 260-315lbs, I've had 4 FS bikes. Certain Air Shocks will run at lower pressures than others. First FS was a Trek Scratch Air 9, with the stock Fox RP23, i ran it at max psi, 300psi. Swapped it for a Marzocchi Roco Air TST which I ran at 210psi. Second was an Intense Tracer, w/ stock RS shock it ran at Max psi, with stock Fox, same frame ran 50 psi less. At 300lbs, on my Evil Insurgent I wouldn't have been able to use most shocks as pressures would be too high. With an Ohlins STX22Air I was able to run 240psi and the bike is one of the best I've ever had. I also have an Orbea Rallon w/ DPX2, works perfectly @ 330psi with .8 spacer. Some say coils for Clydes is the way to go but on this bike I couldn't get a coil strong enough. Just takes time and research.


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