# 29er tandem progress pics



## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Folks,

I thought I'd post a pic or two of the 29er tandem I'm building for some friends. It's got a few fun things that are a bit different about it and I'll show you those things as they're added.

It's sure been a change from building single bikes, and now I want one for myself.

I suppose I could refund the money and just keep it...


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

Nice - look forward to seeing this frame when complete.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Devinci Drive? SS couplers.

Very cool


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Hmmm... dual EBBs. Singlespeed? Rohloff?


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

Is that some couplers to split the bike in half for transporting?

Looks very interesting....


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

DaVinci, yes. Rohloff, yes. And it splits in half so that it'll fit in a normal bike box or behind the car.

We debated how to do all of the chain tensioning and went with 3 EBBs. It was a tough choice, but I wanted the rear wheel to remain fixed in position, for a couple of reasons.

I should have more to show today.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

D.F.L. said:


> DaVinci, yes. Rohloff, yes. And it splits in half so that it'll fit in a normal bike box or behind the car.
> 
> We debated how to do all of the chain tensioning and went with 3 EBBs. It was a tough choice, but I wanted the rear wheel to remain fixed in position, for a couple of reasons.
> 
> I should have more to show today.


Cool. Is this the first ever EBB'd DeVinic? A little added complexity, but damn cool.

Hey DFL, you'd maybe know -- how common are threaded EBB shells, where the EBB itself screws into the shell?


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Speedub.Nate said:


> Cool. Is this the first ever EBB'd DeVinic?


Good question, I dunno.



Speedub.Nate said:


> ... how common are threaded EBB shells, where the EBB itself screws into the shell?


I'm not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate a bit? I've never seen an oversized shell that was threaded. If it were, it would move left/right as you rotated it, just a little, but that might mess with clearances and chainline.

This one uses standard Phil eccentrics and I am mounting the independent drive using Phil's std BB cups and a custom crush sleeve for the bearings. DaVinci uses a press-fit for their mounting and I didn't want that.


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## arly (Apr 20, 2005)

Folks, All tandems (or most) used to come with set screw locking, eccentric bottom bracket shells. The problem with these was they’d develop a little hole where the lock screw would engage the shell. Like center punching metal, the surrounding material would swell up a tad. These little indentions made for great difficulty when making slight changes in EBB adjustments or impossible removals if lots of damage was done. Personally we were glad when split, or wedge type locking shells became the rage. These are easy to make slight adjustments with and never damages the BB shell.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

D.F.L. said:


> I've never seen an oversized shell that was threaded. If it were, it would move left/right as you rotated it, just a little, but that might mess with clearances and chainline.


Exactly like that. That's what I recently ended up with on a new frame. I'm new to EBB ownership, but had never heard of such a thing before. Yes, it moves left/right when you adjust it, but not so much that it makes a difference. Very neat, but looks like a lot of trouble to make.

Sorry for the off-topic.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

*Inching forward*

So I was working in the shop the other day and put my hand down on a YellowJacket. That probably wouldn't have been such a big deal, but I'm allergic and learned what happens to my hand when it's stung. Couldn't close it for a day and it felt terrible to hold anything. Should have gotten pics, sorry.

I did manage to get the rest welded and the initial fit on the stoker TT. I still need to turn a reducer for the rear HT and get ready to attach the 4th BB...


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

Sorry to hear re your hand. Not good, hope it is all tickety boo again

Am watching with anticipation at the progress, looking real good...


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Yeah! I'm watching with baited breath. A 29" tandem is what I really lust after right now.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

A little more progress. Stoker HT done and all tubes welded. Now, just a disk tab, cable guides, and an extra BB and it'll be close. After constant icing, the hand was functional after 24 hours and the swelling was gone in 3 days. Didn't even itch too badly; I must be building up some resistance!


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Beautiful! I'm with Martini -- totally down with the 29 tandem. No time soon, I'm afraid.

A couple more pics of the stays would be great.


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

A 29er Tandem with a Rohloff hub would be right up my alley.....

Is it something that can be done? For sure anything can be done, but is it pissing in the wind for now?


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Speedub.Nate said:


> Exactly like that. That's what I recently ended up with on a new frame. I'm new to EBB ownership, but had never heard of such a thing before. Yes, it moves left/right when you adjust it, but not so much that it makes a difference. Very neat, but looks like a lot of trouble to make.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic.


Not Exactly intended as a fix Bottom bracket Shell, But the GT I-drive use a very similar system to a eccentric bottom bracket excepts is of a bigger diameter, the good thing is that it has threads on the two ends (originally to adjust the "rotation cups") but I'm sure it can be use to secure the Bottom bracket from moving side by side.

I look for pictures soon, in fact I have a few of them around at my shop.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

D.F.L. said:


> A little more progress. Stoker HT done and all tubes welded. Now, just a disk tab, cable guides, and an extra BB and it'll be close. After constant icing, the hand was functional after 24 hours and the swelling was gone in 3 days. Didn't even itch too badly; I must be building up some resistance!


So were does the Extra Bottom bracket go..?
what is the use of it..?

I also notice your extend the stocker handlebar "head tube" what happen, did you cut it to short at first..?

Great work D.F.L. I wish i have the skills and the vision you have.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Whafe said:


> A 29er Tandem with a Rohloff hub would be right up my alley.....
> 
> Is it something that can be done? For sure anything can be done, but is it pissing in the wind for now?


There's no reason not to build a 29'er Rohloff tandem as long as the hub gearing is within the specified range. That's the beauty of the Rohloff; you can use it virtually anywhere.
Arlyn, most of the set-screw bottom brackets, such as those in our Fandango frames, now have a relieved section where the set bolt meets the eccentric. The relieved section prevents any damage to the bb shell. Also the size of the set bolt is significantly larger than past versions, also reducing the damage to the eccentric. For a price-sensitive bb eccentric, it's very effective and trouble-free.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

It's always seemed odd to me that the only limit on a Rohloff hub is the gear ratio. they don't want you to go below a certain number, but don't object to you doubling (or worse) the amount of torque you're running through it. Doesn't make sense.

Some might think that 135 spacing would cause wheel issues, but with the large flange diameter, I bet the wheel strength is pretty similar.

Here's the latest development:


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

D.F.L. said:


> Some might think that 135 spacing would cause wheel issues, but with the large flange diameter, I bet the wheel strength is pretty similar.


For sometime I run one of this magic hubs on my IBIS tandem (135mm rear end) I build the wheel with a four cross pattern using double butted spokes and a Atomlab trailpimp "downhill" rim do to the excellent heat dissipation they provide and the wheel never prove to be any less than stellar.


> Here's the latest development:


so that four bottom bracket do:madman: . that is what I like to know


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

patineto said:


> ...so that four bottom bracket do:madman: . that is what I like to know


Hint is in the filename of the picture...


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

itsdoable said:


> Hint is in the filename of the picture...


Wow you are pretty clever Kiddo...:nono:


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

D.F.L. said:


> Here's the latest development:


Truly remarkable. Is this something you drempt up? Or based on prior art? Will it hold up to a standing load, even if it's only a 70 pounder?

I think you are at the point you're going to need to etch numbers on the frame to indicate the tightening sequence for the bottom brackets!


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

time to add this to my subscribed threads list just for the sheer coolness factor of this frame.


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## brewdog (Jan 6, 2004)

Why not make one w/ couplings on the front TT and DT with mates on the rear ST? Got a tandem one minute, single HT the next by taking out the middle section.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)




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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

Woah - just - Woah!

More pics and details please!!!


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

wow.


Pretty much floored here. So you really felt the need to be more visible by painting it banana yellow, eh? 


Excelent!


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Outstanding!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Looks nice...

Can you explain or image the headtube emblem or badge? Curious about that.

PK


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## messofzero (Jul 8, 2005)

oh my god. build that up asap.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

The "by:stickel" head badge is a picture frame, you can put whatever you want in it. 









Colour was the stoker's choice (or maybe the captain's - it'll depend...) Don't forget, the stoker is never wrong.

Built pics will take a while, we don't have all the parts yet. But the thread was getting a bit stale.


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## dunxster (Jan 12, 2004)

Would I be right in thinking the extra stroker head tube and high, fourth BB are so it can be used as a conventional tandem or as a kiddie back?


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

dunxster said:


> Would I be right in thinking the extra stroker head tube and high, fourth BB are so it can be used as a conventional tandem or as a kiddie back?


Yup, that's it. I thought it'd be nice to quickly set the back up for just about any rider, and when the owners' daughter is old enough, they want to be able to easily convert it for her to ride. That rear BB is removable, so removing the rear timing chain and swapping the child BB/crank assy, seat/post, and stem/bar should have her set, and teach her just how stinky dad can get.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Can't believe this thread was started in May. Still waiting on some parts, but I'm use to a slow build. Didn't help being out of town for family issues.

Here are some of the odd bits so far:

















It's going to get ridden as a SS rigid first.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Tasty!

Looking forward to your first ride reports. What parts are you waiting on?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Speedub.Nate said:


> What parts are you waiting on?


I still need wider bars. I have a DUC that I was going to convert to 29, but I heard Maverick is not producing the conversion kit while they organize under the new management. I might just make my own. I currently have a recycled Karate Monkey fork which has a steerer that is on the short side.

I was also looking for some M10 coupling nuts for the Rohloff TS hub (with hooded dropouts, you need to carry a socket otherwise). I think I'll use a QR hub instead, I have all the parts to build the wheel, I just haven't got around to it.

I'd like to get wider tires too, but I have something that will work for now. And maybe some mods for the front disc mount.

So other than a few minor little tidbits, I just need some time to get it together and tested. The odd bits & custom parts take time to get right.


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## threebikes (Aug 27, 2007)

Cool, thanks for the pics.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm working on a Fandango design update, and am considering the chainstay-mounted brake setup. I notice you did this on your frame.
Did you cycle the rear brake through full action with the current cable routing? Does the approach angle of the cable being more or less perpindicular to the Avid caliper make any difference to the brake's performance?
What sort of pros and cons did you work through with cable routing for that setup?
Thanks


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

BigNut said:


> I'm working on a Fandango design update, and am considering the chainstay-mounted brake setup. I notice you did this on your frame.
> Did you cycle the rear brake through full action with the current cable routing? Does the approach angle of the cable being more or less perpindicular to the Avid caliper make any difference to the brake's performance?
> What sort of pros and cons did you work through with cable routing for that setup?
> Thanks


The main reason for placing the caliper between the CS & SS was to keep the top of the SS clear for the Rohloff Shift box. I've had this done on previous frames (singles) and it has worked out well. I also like the cleaner look.

Some of the issues with between ST - CS calipers:

- Not all caliper will fit/clear there, depending on the stay design.

- You may have heel clearance issues, depending on caliper.

- reverse forces tend to pull the axle out of the dropout - it's really only an issue if you do _trials_ like rear wheel hops, which probably is not an issue on a tandem.

- Different calipers don't always engage at the same place wrt ISO mounts, so if the caliper engages forward (towards the front ISO bolt) and the dropout has too much forward slope, the rotor may bind when inserting/removing the wheel.

For a custom frame, these issues can easily be designed around, especially if you know what calipers you plan to use. For stock frames, you'll have to list the compatible calipers for the frame.

This is the first tandem I've seen with between ST - CS calipers, and I have not ridden it off my street yet (- and it's been many years since I was on a tandem). However, this tandem was designed with direct to 203 rotor caliper mount (no adapters with ISO calipers), which gave us more room to accommodate different calipers. It can accommodate CS or SS hydraulic hoses. The Avid caliper shown has been modified to take a cable directly from a SS stop - this was done to avoid heal clearance issues with the caliper's cable stop, which sticks out beyond the CS. I don't think it would have been an issue (with the intended stoker) but this was an interesting experiment. Different ISO-Post adapters, and model year Avid calipers set up slightly differently, in the case of my 08 caliper with an Avid adapter, the pads engage just as the arm is perpendicular, which is a bit later than ideal. But it's still within a few degrees of max power. In retrospec, placing the cable stop lower, or further up the SS would have been better (but not by much).

There are cable stops so I can use a non-modded Avid Mech with CS routing.

If I've missed a few issues, D.F.L. can pipe in, he's done a few of these for me.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

The Rohloff shift cable routing is what I'm trying to address as well. I've been playing around with a lateral-tube cable routing instead of top tube to see if it provides any advantages for a conventional drivetrain.
da Vinci does a chainstay brake mount standard on most of their tandems, and they use a direct-mount spacing (which means using a 160mm Avid adaptor to hit the 203mm spacing). I've found an Avid BB7, a Magura Louise Tandem, and a Hope Moto caliper will fit on the CS mount (as would most single-piston designs), but Magura Gustavs and Hope M6 will not, due to the multiple piston designs and resulting caliper body length. 
Of course, the M6 will be (or is) discontinued, so that's not a big deal. I don't like losing the Gustav as an option though, as it's the best HD brake we've used.
Other than the frame geometry we've had such good luck with, we're starting with a clean-slate redesign, and they'll be produced in fewer numbers, in the US, so we can tweak things without having to sell through 50 or 100 frames. Best time to think outside the box. 
Thanks for the information.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Cool, didn't know daVinci used between SS-CS caliper mounts, the one I saw on thier web site still uses standard ISO with a 160-203 adapter. I saw some daVinci's at the local bike show last year, but they all had conventional SS disc mounts.

I originally wanted to use a _front_ ISO direct to 203 disc mount on the rear, it moves the mount another 10mm out, gives more room for the brace and reduces stress on the stays. Of course that just makes buying ISO calipers a bit of a pain (post mounts would just need a different adapter).

The between SS-CS caliper mount can accomodate the current Gustav if you design the SS correctly, it was a consideration on mine, but we decided the Avid was good enough, and made splitting the bike easier. The Gustav may still fit on mine with a 9" rotor. I would definitely design in that option if it was a production frame - it is _the standard_ for tandem hydraulic disc.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Front caliper brace.

Finished building up the tandem (in SS mode only).








Yesterday was shorts weather, so we took it out for a test spin. It's been a long time since I've been on one, and that was road only. However, that wasn't the problem.

SS was probably not the best format to re-learn a tandem, but we were just starting to get use to synchronizing our standing climbs (and we were starting to make them) when we had our first mechanical, only 5km into the ride. Our jack shaft stopped turning. Looks like the shaft spacers buckled. So it was a coast and push-kick home.

The seized jack-shaft just needs beefier axle spacer. We used Phil's BB bearings instead of daVinci's, and made it fit a conventional BB shell, but the spacers were not designed to take a large compression load. Unfortunately the daVinci jack shaft puts a pretty large axial load on the spacers due to that way the freewheel carrier is mounted.

The other issue was the Avid speed dial. We went through the design carefully several times, measuring existing bikes, photographing setups, etc... - but my stoker's heel touches the rear caliper's speed dial, and slowly dials in the outer pad. I think what I failed to take into account was the 203 rotors placing the caliper closer to the heel, and the 29'er geometry placing the caliper higher wrt the BB.

Several of our Avid Mech users (and myself) have noticed that occasionally your outer pad dial gets kick by either your foot, or some trail material, and changes the engagement point. It does not happen often, but is one of the annoyances of the caliper. So we thought we designed around that. Oh well.

The obvious solution is to use a hydraulic caliper, which I prefer anyways. But we spec'ed it with a mech caliper to make splitting the tandem for transport easier, as it's pretty easy to damage hydraulic lines. Shimano and Hayes have decent mech calipers that do not have a dials, so I'll give them a try first - here's the setup with a Hayes. I prefer the current Shimano version, but I didn't have one handy to modify.









I think it's time to build up the Rohloff wheel...


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I don't know what to say... the thought you and DFL put in to this is obvious (well, except for that minor brake problem — how about removing the BB7's outboard knob and running it like a BB5?).

What did you end up with for a wheelbase?

What is the inspiration behind the front brake brace?


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## Whafe (May 27, 2004)

Very cool to see the build pretty much complete, been great following this thread for a good many months, great to see the tandem come to fruition..

Look forward to hearing how she is performing when the minor teething issues are ironed out...

Awesome work.... Enjoy...


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## TandemGeek (Mar 14, 2004)

Do your drop-outs have lawyer lips or a recessed set of flats?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I thought about using a bb5 arm on a bb7 caliper, but I don't have a bb5 lying around, and I'm not sure they are compatible, even modded. The outer dial on the bb7's are integral to the outer pad adjuster, and are not easily replaced. BB5's use a different pad, and I'm not sure how much heat load they are capable of. The Hayes were easily modded, but more importantly, I had one lying around.

Wheel base is 186cm with the rigid fork.

Front caliper brace was to spread the load for a 203 rotor (which most forks are not rated for), but the K.monkey fork probably does not need it. I have a nice carbon-fiber plate torque arm I used on a rear disc adapter several years ago, but I couldn't locate it. This big ugly DH handlebar brace was sitting around.

Dropouts have lawyer tabs. I'm also using a retro set of fully steel dura-ace QR skewers. My Mavrick DUC still needs to be converted to 29er.


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## mtbnutty (Aug 5, 2004)

Bumpity bump.........

Any progress?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

mtbnutty said:


> ....Any progress?


Not really. It's been a snowy winter, better for this type of activity - especially as we can almost do it right out the front door. 









But we did get out on it a few times during warmer/dryer periods while it was still a SS. The jackshaft is still giving us some problems, it's easily fixable, but I like to fiddle.








For the most part, it's been a sock dryer this winter.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Long weekend, good weather (a bit muddy though) but unfortunately, no baby sitter.

So we compromised.








Sorry, no action photos, the photographer was the captain. The 2-year old liked being in the middle of the action.

I've got it set up with a CVT-hub (Nuvinci) which added a bit of weight. The rear wheel is ~12lb. It's an experiment, as a CVT removes one of the synchronization issues with tandems. The hub is NOT tandem rated. However...









The hub range is set such that it under-drives up to 2x, and overdrives 1.75x. Under load, from direct-drive to the lowest ratio, you can smoothly shift down, almost as fast as you can twist the shifter. However, you cannot shift up from "granny" under full load, you have to let-up a fair bit. For direct-drive up, it is the opposite. The fact that you can down shift as you load up on an incline is nice.

We did not make a few of the steeper hills on the trails, including ones that we made in SS mode. This was mostly because we were climbing seated this time (it's a bit harder to stand with the baby seat) and we were not synchronized (whereas we consciously synchronized our pedals during the standing climbs). And I still suck as a captain.

The jack-shaft is better, one more tweak to see how smooth I can get it.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

How did the NuVinci hold up? Could you feel any slippage or other indications it might not be up to tandem use?
BTW, like the kid seat setup. That's cool!


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

BigNut said:


> How did the NuVinci hold up? Could you feel any slippage or other indications it might not be up to tandem use?
> BTW, like the kid seat setup. That's cool!


We have only had a few rides, and have not really pushed the hub. We have not had any slippage issues yet, any mushiness I feel at the pedal feels like frame flex. I'll let you know when we synchronize a climb without the baby seat.

When it was newly laced up, I was standing on the pedals with the brake on, and I thought I could feel some slippage. But I think that may partly be the fact that the hub was new, un-used, and the traction/lube was probably puddled at the bottom, and not coating the spheres.


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## Enel (Mar 23, 2004)

Update?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

We rode it on and off last season, not that much in the winter. More often than not with the 3rd seat pictured above.

The Nuvinci has been working fine, have not put the Rohloff on it yet. I have a Manitou Drake on it right now.


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## MichiganClydesdale (Mar 24, 2004)

*weight?*

That bike is a head turner for sure, what a great work of art, it's pure functional beauty. Don't underestimate those couplers - I can tell you that mine is a hassle to move by vehicle, and being able to fold it would be the whip.

What's the frame / bike weigh?



Whafe said:


> A 29er Tandem with a Rohloff hub would be right up my alley.....
> 
> Is it something that can be done? For sure anything can be done, but is it pissing in the wind for now?


of course, there's others...sorry to poach, this has been posted here before.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

MichiganClydesdale said:


> That bike is a head turner for sure, what a great work of art, it's pure functional beauty. Don't underestimate those couplers - I can tell you that mine is a hassle to move by vehicle, and being able to fold it would be the whip.
> 
> What's the frame / bike weigh?


I've carried tandems on a roof rack before, it works pretty well. Getting it on the roof is the hard part, much easier with 2 people. I have not had to use the couples yet, it's so we can put it on the camper van's hitch rack. We were eyeing TandemNut's Bent Creek weekend, but I don't think we can make it.

As for frame / bike weight - I don't know. Never weighed it. Not sure I have a scale that can... but it would be much lighter without that NuVinci hub.

The CVT hub & indi-pedalling system means you don't have to learn much synchronisation - which is not necessarily a good thing.

I remember seeing the Quiring (and a Vicious), and some european FS Rohloff equipped tandems - some nice stuff.
I tried to get Steve to make something like this - but it was a little to ambitious... for us, anyway. 








(Rohloff specific Tandem from the Frame Forum)


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## TheBrick (Dec 8, 2008)

Any updates on this bike looks very interesting.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

TheBrick said:


> Any updates on this bike looks very interesting.


Oops, missed this one.

We just took the kiddie seat off the tandem in September (she was exceeding the weight limit), so we haven't had a great deal of trail time. It's mostly been used around town: farmers market, noodle house, sushi bar, street festivals etc... basically anywhere you would drag the kid as a family. I'm still more comfortable running solo on singletrack, so I usually have her by myself when we ride trails.

Now that the kiddie seat is off, I'm hoping to get some trail time on it before the kiddie stoker gets attached....

As far as the bike goes, Its currently got a Manitou Drake (don't know why I started rigid, must have been a lapse of sanity), and I might try a steel stanchioned M29. The DUC is still waiting to be converted. The NuVinci CVT hub has been fine, I think 2 clydes would not hurt it. I'll probably switch to the Rohloff when we run out of gears. The Jack-Shaft has been smooth since my last shimming job (a year ago). eBBs are quiet, rear disc tend to "zing" a bit when were cranking hard, but work well.

The kid lets me know her hands are cold buy sticking them up my back - almost made me crash the first time she did it.


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## TheBrick (Dec 8, 2008)

Cool. Sounds like excellent fun. Thanks for the update.


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## ourdance (May 7, 2008)

*NuVinci N360 might work on DaVinci ICS but not on locked tandem drive*

I wonder if your N360 has not slipped because the ICS balances rather than adds torque from captain and stoker. I really want to put an N360 on a conventional tandem but I am concerned it will slip when doing a standing climb.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

ourdance said:


> I wonder if your N360 has not slipped because the ICS balances rather than adds torque from captain and stoker. I really want to put an N360 on a conventional tandem but I am concerned it will slip when doing a standing climb.


We don't have an N360 on the tandem, we have the original hub (which is a pound heavier).

On standing climbs, we are voluntarily synchronised. We tried it the other way... it didn't work...


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

*update...*










The kiddie parts have been installed, cranks are from a Burley Rock-n-Roll kids tandem kit (a friend had an unused pair!), it needed a 145mm bb axle (!) which I didn't have. I did not have any narrow kids bars either, so I had to improvise.









"Daddy, my bum is sore..."


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

*update....*

The Kiddie stoker kit comes off....









She doesn't like the lower seating position - being high up on the kidding stoker gave you a better view, especially on the downhills. However,









I have the seatpost slammed down, and it's still a touch tall for her. The kiddie cranks do not fit on the lower BB as the chain ring interfers with the stays (I don't have a wide enough BB). The shortest adult cranks I have are 170mm, which doesn't help. And left handed cranks are hard to find.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

awesome! :thumbsup:

You could just attach some blocks to the pedals, that should get her by for a little bit.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*A bit on short (and shortening) cranks.*

Bicycle Crank Length: Some Tips

Been thinking of trying to make a short crank for my granddaughter for the tag-a-long. This post makes it sound pretty straight-forward...


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## Bimmer74 (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow, this is cool. 

Last Fall I bought a well-serviced Trek T900 from friends who traded up to a more exotic (and unspeakably expensive) tandem. 

My wife isn't interested in riding the tandem, but our 8-year-old loves it. We commute the 22 miles to work/school together...


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