# Careers in Trail Building



## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

I currently work for a local land trust as a trail planner/designer, and more or less the organization's face to the MTB community. I'm the only rider at the place staffed with 12 people, and I've got a good knack for quickly identify sustainable trail placement. I've got no formal training, but use my GIS background for layout and speed up the process, as well show potential stakeholders plans. As the organization grows, so does the amount of land they manage, and so does the possibility or more MTB access.

Currently, the work I do is paid out of grants or private donorship funding.

If I want to continue doing this, will this be my income base forever?

I guess my question is:

*What else do trail builders do in order to stay working? Landscaping? Deck building? GIS?
*
*What additional education would help keep my income more stable? Should I go to tech school for carpentry and construction, or go to a specialized trail building course to learn backwoods building?*

A former co-worker or mine did the same exact job, and he got out of it because farming was more lucrative. That tells me something.

Advice?


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I'll vote for a specialized trail building course just because I lost a trail building job once only because another applicant had taken a course.

With over 40 years experience and miles of singletrack to my name, with kudos and reccommendations from riders, bike clubs, land managers and developers all over my province and across the country. The bike resort hired the kid fresh out of trail building school against the wishes of their trail crew leader simply because he had a certificate.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

Short answer: check out the Professional Trailbuilders Association @ www.trailbuilder.org. All the information you're looking for is there.

For reference, my company is in the field 9 months/year and planning/designing the rest of the time. Currently run 2 crew with 4 machines. We could do all kind of trails, but we're booked hard with mountain bike. From typical XC to downhill to mountain bike park to pumptrack/DJ and even BMX tracks.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

HypNoTic said:


> Short answer: check out the Professional Trailbuilders Association @ www.trailbuilder.org. All the information you're looking for is there.
> 
> For reference, my company is in the field 9 months/year and planning/designing the rest of the time. Currently run 2 crew with 4 machines. We could do all kind of trails, but we're booked hard with mountain bike. From typical XC to downhill to mountain bike park to pumptrack/DJ and even BMX tracks.


Speaking of which... I'm getting awfully close to your neighborhood Jerome. I'm in southern Ontario now and thinking of moving farther east. It's too flat and muddy here AND they stole my bike. I may be knocking on your door looking for work soon.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

We can always use a Ninja trailbuilder! Feel free to give me a call or drop me an email. 


To answer the question in the OP, most of my crew have other job in our "off season".
snowpark designer/builder 
ski patroler/at-home mom
machine operator for an excavation cie/snowplower at the airport
bike mechanic
welder
ebenist 
mountain bike coach
professional logger
restaurant chef
IT consultant


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## Kool (May 20, 2009)

You get paid to build trails????


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

machine operator for an excavation cie/snowplower at the airport

I was looking at that field as a possible day job. Learn the excavators, get a my CDL, save my pennies for a mini-excavator. I just hear that because the economy isn't building the need for equipment operators isn't as in demand.


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

HypNoTic said:


> Short answer: check out the Professional Trailbuilders Association @ www.trailbuilder.org. All the information you're looking for is there.
> .


Link doesnt work ....do you have another?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

ImaFred said:


> Link doesnt work ....do you have another?


Link works but is has been hijacked with malware:


> Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer!
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> ...


More info.


> What is the current listing status for www.trailbuilders.org?
> 
> Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.
> 
> ...


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

I work ski patrol / ski instructor in the off season. Also do a bit of graphics work when time permits. I pick up the odd job here and there bucking up windfall after storms too.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

Kool said:


> You get paid to build trails????


Yep. We get paid to plan, design, build, maintain, fix, enhance, renaturalize and teach everything we know about trails.

We are about a dozen professional trailbuilding company in Canada, and about 150 in the States that are member of the PTBA.

I currently manage 6 full-time employees, plus the administration staff, and my dog is always with us. We manage about 40 project each year, some are simple trail training session, some are advanced machine operator training, some trail enhancement work, some larger scale trail projects, some are urban bike park.

I'm also paid to ride my bike. It's called "quality control". :thumbsup:



PaintPeelinPbody said:


> I just hear that because the economy isn't building the need for equipment operators isn't as in demand.


I can't tell for your area, but around here, we are seriously lacking new operator. The demand is VERY high. Specially for specialized equipment such as grader.



ImaFred said:


> Link doesnt work ....do you have another?


I've reported the issue to the association. Should be fixed soon.


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## Trailzking (Jun 29, 2011)

I have been trail building the last three summers and am thinking of how to get to New Zealand in order to build year round. I am currently in charge of the Bike Program at Alyeska Resort in Alaska. I got the job because I lived and really learned to bike and trail build in BC for 7 years, half the time in Whistler the other have in Smithers.

Alaska is about 12 years behind the times so when I come from the 'Outside' with news of 'DH biking' and 'Bike Parks' it seems all new and crazy. Having to explain how jumps and berms are the norm has been tiresome but people are coming around...

I just started a thread here to follow our local progress:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=8197293#post8197293

I am in the position where I am thinking about starting my own business but I do enjoy the support and infrastructure found at the resort. In the winter I have been logging to unemployed to snow making to snow park building.

Oh yeah and trying to sell these skis I've been building on the side:

http://www.carpathianskis.com/

Anyway, I like this thread and will see what ideas pop up!


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

HypNoTic said:


> I can't tell for your area, but around here, we are seriously lacking new operator. The demand is VERY high. Specially for specialized equipment such as grader.


Talk to me more about this. What all equipment do you use or contract out on a regular basis?

Do you find that good road building operators aren't as adjusted to building small trails?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

We have hand built trails for 25+ years, but are now investigating trail building machines. We have attended some workshops and talked to many land managers, trail machine operators, and clubs who do machine trail work.

The overwhelming statement is that a skilled trail builder can become a competent machine operator and build quality trails. An exceptional machine operator who is not a trail builder usually produces low quality trails.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

PaintPeelinPbody said:


> Do you find that good road building operators aren't as adjusted to building small trails?


Operator trained for mini-excavation around houses are usually able to handle smaller machines pretty well, but running a small machine in a forest require some badass skills. Road builders are more likely to get you a nice and wide cross-country skiiing trail that will be very boring for mtb.

If you're stuck with a "road builder" or "Joe with his Bobcat", then you better plan to get a trailbuilder with him AT ALL TIME during the building process to supervise him.

If you aim for machine-built singletrack, a few companies (mine included) offer specialized operator training, which I really, really, really recommend.



PaintPeelinPbody said:


> Talk to me more about this. What all equipment do you use or contract out on a regular basis?


We work with micro-excavator (Deere 17D) for singletrack. Kubota U17 is another good machine in the range.

On easier terrain or when a little wider trail thread is desired, we use our Ditch Witch SK650 with a blade. That machine is also used to do finishing work behind the excavator in some projects. I know some people use ASV RC30 or Terex PT30 skidsteer and they are very nice machines too. Stronger and faster than the SK650. Most likely our next buy.

For downhill, flow trails, pumptrack and projects where we need to move a lot of dirt in relatively confined space, we use our Deere 35D.

For major bike park, we usually try to get a sub-contractor with a heavy equipment (in the range of 200D excavator, 544/644 loaders, Cat 6D bulldozer) for the rough shape, then we use our Deere 35D with a large Bobcat skidsteer for the final touch.

All our excavator have many buckets, depending on the situation and have hydrolic thumb. The 35D have a twist bucket that we use a lot for pumptrack/DJ.

Some builders in the States had good success with purpose-built Sweco 480, which is a 4ft wide bulldozer. Sutter Equipment offer a similar machine.

Some club are starting to use Singletrack ST240 specialized machines. Nice, narrow machines but I'm still not convinced of that machine for my specific location.



slocaus said:


> The overwhelming statement is that a skilled trail builder can become a competent machine operator and build quality trails. An exceptional machine operator who is not a trail builder usually produces low quality trails.


Teaching the trail vision to a machine operator is pretty hard. You better plan for a trailbuilder that will supervise the operator in the machine at all time.

Teaching machine operation to a trailbuilder is usually very easy, as long as he have some basic skills. We've trained builder/operator that were able to safely handle basic excavator operation in a day, and were able to climb hills and cut nice singletrack within a week. After that, it's experience and it just take time.

Some operator are excavator guys, some are dirt pusher. Most of the time, you're good on one OR the other.


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

Jerome, can I email you on your IMBA email? I've got a a few (lots) more questions for you.


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## Trailzking (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree with the idea of having to stay with the operator every moment if the operator does not ride bikes. It took me couple season to finally get in the machine and it has paid off 20x. As in a machine will do the work of 20 guys all day long and only drinks diesel.

Example of new machine trail on the left and old hand built on the right from last year, both took about 4 days to complete:


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

PaintPeelinPbody said:


> Jerome, can I email you on your IMBA email? I've got a a few (lots) more questions for you.


I don't work for IMBA anymore, but I sent you my email by private message.:thumbsup:


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