# 4 Entry Level Bikes - One Choice?



## GoKnights (Nov 27, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm looking to get into mountain biking with some friends so I need to buy an entry-level bike. I've done a little research myself and I understand the need for a decent purchase up front (so your initial ride doesn't suck), but I also don't want to be left with a $700 bike if I don't end up liking the sport.

For that reason, I've selected the four bikes below as possible options. I'm not yet knowledgeable on the different components between bikes, so I was hoping someone could help me figure out which bike is "better" in terms of specs (I plan to pick the bike that has the best specs + feels comfortable to me).

Giant Revel - $350
ATX 27.5 2 (2015) | Giant Bicycles | United States

Giant ATX - $440
Revel 3 (2015) | Giant Bicycles | United States

X-Caliber 4 - $385 (only 19" in stock)
http://bicyclesetc.net/product/trek-x-caliber-4-gary-fisher-collection-193910-1.htm

Cannondale Trail 29er - $420
http://bicyclesetc.net/product/cannondale-trail-29er-7-196264-1.ht

The prices I listed are the prices the stores gave me when I called, but they also told me they were motivated to sell, so I figure I could get $20-$40 off depending on the bike.

One highlight that one of the stores kept mentioning was that the ATX had double-wall rims, which from my understanding is good for bigger guys. For reference, I am 6'1" and 215lbs.

And a final note for reference, I will be riding in NE Florida at local trails, so nothing that is actually mountain terrain.

Any advice, recommendations, or comments are much appreciated! Thanks everyone!


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

Alright let's start off by your first observation about double walled rims.
The Cannondale uses double walled rims as well, not just the ATX.

I am honestly not sure which to recommend. I want to recommend the ATX but that's so low speced (tourney 3x7).
I noticed a Performance Bicycle (Jackson Florida same place as the BikeETC) in your area if it's close enough for you go check out the GT Backwoods 2015 Comp, it's $499 but has 3x9 gearing, Altus/Alivion/Acera, a decent XCT w/ Hydraulic lockout meaning it has some dampening. Brakes are hydraulic, not the best at all but good enough in my opinion.
One benefit of Performance Bicycle is that they offer free lifetime adjustments, and a life time guarantee meaning you can return the bike for a full refund within 1 year.


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## MPX309 (Nov 3, 2014)

I would personally stretch to the talon 4. . . and if u like the sport upgrade the shocks, and if not, you could sell the bike?


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## GoKnights (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to a few shops tomorrow, so I've got a few questions.....

1) What are the primary differences between the ATX and the Talon 4, and are they worth the extra $ (looks like the Talon is $550-$570)?
2) What is a "pre load adjust and lockout" suspension fork? and is it something I would need as a beginner?
3) Is there an etiquette when dealing with a LBS? Should I expect to pay their asking price? One store told me they were "motivated to sell" - trying to figure out what that means in terms of % they'd be willing to go down.
4) Any general tips I can use when trying the bikes out to ensure I'm getting the right bike for me, and not for them? In terms of what to look for in sizing, comfort, etc.

I appreciate all the replies and the help you guys have given!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

At your weight to ride trails you need an air fork. It will come with rebound damping which none of those bikes has.
The MLO on the spec for the fork on the Talon 4 means manual lockout. On this series of fork you need HLO for hydraulic lockout to get the internals for rebound damping. No rebound damping means pogo stick over multiple bumps. But it still would have only a spring with preload to adjust for your weight. Screwing down the preload compresses the spring to handle rider weight. This is setting the sag. You need a heavy duty spring for your weight range. An air fork uses compressed air to set the sag for your weight.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Btw all the bikes u listed have double wall rims, dont think a single one doesn't. Giant I know and trek I know does. But neither giant has decent parts fitted. 

If u plan on riding bumpy single track all forks specced on those bikes will get annoyingly bouncy real fast. Plenty of deals for better forks once u reach the point where ur ready for them.

If is 7 speed (21speed) avoid it, might as well buy a bike at WalMart cause same crap. Altus or x4 8 speed is great to start out and allows upgrading later if u want. 

Looking at specs best bike in ur options is the Trek. Decent set of forks later on other than that have a solid, well warranties, and reliable bike for trail use.
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Rent a bike and see if you like the sport.


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## MPX309 (Nov 3, 2014)

GoKnights said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to a few shops tomorrow, so I've got a few questions.....
> 
> 1) What are the primary differences between the ATX and the Talon 4, and are they worth the extra $ (looks like the Talon is $550-$570)?
> 2) What is a "pre load adjust and lockout" suspension fork? and is it something I would need as a beginner?
> ...


I should have explained the reasoning behind my response, My bad. . . The reason I mentioned the Talon 4 is only because I have a Talon 3, so can speak for the Talon, the 4 is only about 100$ more than your other options you've posted, but comes with hydraulic disc brakes.

Anyway to directly answer the question abit better, I was also in the same boat as you not more than 6 months ago, I wasn't sure how much to spend on a bike, and chose the Talon 3 and it is a good bike, the problem with being abit cautious about saving coin incase you don't like the sport (which is understandable) is the flip side is if you do like the sport, you'll start kicking yourself abit for not spending a little bit more money. The more you get into it the more features you'll learn about bikes that you didn't realise were available before (ofcourse the more complex the bike is the higher the maintenance). . . But I can say everything else on the Talon 4 will hold up nicely if you do like it. . . . I can almost guarantee that if you do like it you'll want to switch the fork out, (an airfork like someone else mentioned will make a huge difference) and anything else you may want to change will be little personal things like clipless pedals, grips, saddle etc.

PS. It doesn't have to be the talon 4 obviously. . There may well be a bike out there with better specs for the same price or cheaper, but because I'm a beginner myself, I don't know what they are. Good luck though, I hope you enjoy it, it's awesome once you get into it.

Only tip I can give for buying a bike is, buy it in store (not online). . . If it's a good bike store and not one just trying to meet a quota they will give you great advise.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

If you're open to used, I think that's a much better way to start.

I think your first bike should be about seeing where riding takes you. You could find it doesn't click or that a XC hardtail isn't really "you." In that case, resell. Buying used means you minimize your loss.

If it does click, you're on a better bike than if you bought retail.

If you blew it on size or something, once again, you can resell without getting hosed so badly.

New bikes can make sense. I think you need to be pretty set in what you want and confident you'll keep the bike for a few years. Kind of a different place than trying it out.

Definitely get a bike and give it a shot.

Good luck!


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

dgw2jr said:


> Rent a bike and see if you like the sport.


It's easy to spend a lot of time on the internet and wind up sounding like a bunch of elitist *****... this is the BEST answer. Rent a bike with spec that's up to riding well, and use that as the meter stick for how much you like mountain biking - anything less is like buying a FWD Kia to decide if you like rock crawling and going on jeep trails; the equipment not being suited for that application is likely to cloud your view of the activity.

From there, gather more information, come back with more questions, and be ready to research - at under $500 even used bikes tend to suck unless you're pretty well equipped with what to look for, but on tighter budgets it's really easy to end up with a heavy, slow, inefficient, un-capable, ugly, and potentially unsafe bike if you take on singletrack trails - budget bikes work fine on bike paths, and can withstand very mechanically empathetic riding on somewhat rough terrain, but anything beyond that and literally every part of the bike will be taxed beyond what it's capable of.

A store person who is willing to spend that kind of time rattling on about wheel construction is either working really hard for a comparatively small sale, or just doesn't ride themselves and are just spouting information they've heard from elsewhere. Wheels on any bike under $1500 are machine built with relatively flexy rims and are going to be junky if you ride them hard, especially for anybody north of 6'... I wouldn't worry about them as much as drivetrain, fork, and brakes. If you're even remotely athletic, the square peg cranks are just garbage, and for the cost of fixing one you're already up an entire tier of drivetrain parts - start at Altus at least if you must own new, but I'd aim for Deore or X5.
Solo air forks are seriously worlds better - any coil fork is going to come equipped with a spring set up for a 170lb rider, needless to say you'll be coasting with it already having burned through half it's travel and you'll be burning the other 2" of travel on small bumps pretty quickly, then just banging crowns off stuff and flexing the 28mm stantions relentless if you go on singletrack trails with any technical features... unless you're going to spend more money and time taking one apart and buying aftermarket parts from the get-go.

[FWIW I've got an inch and 30lb on you, and I utterly destroyed my first 29er bike in under a week - stripped the crank, warped the brakes, knocked both wheels out of true, trashed the derailleur cable and RD - so I know that it's pretty feasible to ruin cheap bikes easily from firsthand experience]. So, I may sound like a dikc, but unless it's a trail that could be handled confidently by a BMX bike or kid's bike, a $400 isn't likely to stand up to repeated use, and would ONLY be good if you don't like mountain biking much and wind up having it sit in the garage until it rusts and eventually gets garage sale sold - in which case you're STILL money ahead having rented a bike, because at least it's more enjoyable, and you're less likely to hurt yourself by running out of talent AND braking power at the same time [BTDT too, it sucks].


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

This BD Gravity Point 1 will give you something to compare other options to.
It has Shimano Alivio/Deore drive parts in 9sp triple configuration. $419 shipped. Good geo.
Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 29Point1 29er Mountain Bikes
It has the bike path level Suntour fork. Nick at Suntour NA with ship you a Raidon air fork for $200 through their loyalty program.
SR Suntour North America | SR Suntour Customer Loyalty Upgrade Program
With that you can ride trails.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Non mountain bike trails, and here again is the recommendation for an air fork. What is wrong with you? Do you not read? Any of those entry level bikes will be fine for the OP and his/her usage. I am thinking that there is a budget to stick to, and recommending a more expensive bike and then a fork upgrade makes 0 sense.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Don't underestimate Florida's non-mountain trails. They have plenty of drops and roots enough to make you yelp with your bike path fork bike. At 215+ gear he is on the edge of the spring's range in the Suntour.


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## asanatheist (Sep 15, 2014)

GoKnights said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to a few shops tomorrow, so I've got a few questions.....
> 
> 1) What are the primary differences between the ATX and the Talon 4, and are they worth the extra $ (looks like the Talon is $550-$570)?
> 2) What is a "pre load adjust and lockout" suspension fork? and is it something I would need as a beginner?
> ...


1. Not worth the difference in my opinion. I've tried auriga brakes. The Talon 4 will be about $100+ difference for hydraulic brakes that really are no better than mechanical brakes at this price point. The only real benefit would be in the drive train being a bit better. Once again I would recommend you give performance bikes a try, and give the GT Backwoods Comp a chance. For the $499, it will be hard to beat for the components it has.

2. Preload adjustment is changing the spring rate. Basically think about it as a spring that is loose: The spring will be easy at first then finally get harder to compress as you keep going. Preload is the change of how soon the spring will begin to get hard. It does NOT change how well the spring compresses, or how much force it can take only how soon will it hit that "hard" point". Not really important in my opinion.

3. Absolutely you can haggle. You can always haggle, LBS will always work on models that are hard to see (small/extra small frames, last years models, and maybe new models to meet monthly quotas). If they already told you they are motivated to sell, that means they are negotiable on the price.

4. I would advice looking at videos on youtube regarding sizing.

My recommendation from one beginner (My budget was $400) is to get the bike that fits you, and fits your budget. When you need to cross the bridge later on do it at that point.


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## GoKnights (Nov 27, 2014)

Wow, I never expected this many replies - thank you all so much. There are a lot of good points and definitely some things to consider.

I went to a few bike stores today to check on prices of the bikes I listed above.

None of the stores around me had any Giant ATX/Talons/Revels on the floor, so there was nothing to try there.

There is a Bikes Direct store near my house so I went there and found a Motobecane 450HT for $319, but again no models on the floor - they had an upgraded 529HT for $399, but I figured I could get a nicer brand for that price.

The last store I went to had the Trek X-Caliber 4 and the Cannondale Trail 7. When I got there the guy told me the X-Caliber 4 didn't have double-walled rims, which is something he suggested I have as a bigger guy.

I tried out the Cannondale Trail 7 and liked the feel of it. I told him I was sort of looking for "starter" kit, so he quoted me at $490 (tax included) for the Cannondale, a Bontrager Solstice helmet, and a water bottle cage. According to him, the Cannondale was sent to them with a torn seat so they warrantied it from Cannondale and added their own $90 saddle to it.

I was trying to keep my purchase around the $450 range, so I asked him if he could drop down to $465 and he said he had no room to drop the price. I was hoping some of you could chime in and let me know what you think of this deal - should I take it, or hold out for something better?

The store that carries that bike rents bikes out for $40/day, and you can apply the rental to any new bike if you decide to purchase within 7 days. I was thinking of renting a bike this Sunday and then pulling the trigger if all goes well (and if you guys think the deal is decent). For reference, the bike they rent out is a Trek Superfly 100 AL - I know this is a much different bike, but I think this would give me a general idea.

I am going to look at a few more stores this weekend when they're open (Performance included) to ensure that I'm checking out all my options.

Again, all help is much appreciated!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Since you have a brick-and-mortar bikesdirect, that's maybe not a bad idea.

Their frames are cheap. But so are everybody else's in this price range. Just don't buy a FS.

Their claims are misleading. That's kind of a turnoff. But I think you still get a higher spec for your dollar.

The biggest problems I have with the inexpensive bikesdirect bikes are that I think the test ride is a bad thing to give up and that their web site has such a snake oil sales flavor. Since you keep the opportunity to test ride... I think you still need to read any spec lists pretty closely with them and make your own judgement about value, but I do think the catalog bikes beat retail bikes on bang-for-the-buck if not for the issue of the test ride, and if you don't have to pay someone to assemble them.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Find something with rebound damping. It isn't on the 7. 
You notice no 7 level bikes are rented for offroad.


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## Bttocs (Jun 21, 2014)

OP,

I can relate as I went through the process myself this summer. I think renting is a good idea, especially if you only plan to ride occasionally. I looked for a used bike for a while before buying and found a lot of low end bikes in the $100-200 range. They would get you out there to see if you like it. After the low end stuff, prices jumped up a lot and I am 6'4", 245lbs, so finding a XL that would work for me was hard. I was turned on to Airborne bikes and planned to buy their entry level bike for $600. Its a quality bike that will last for a while and really meet a lot of peoples needs. I listened to the "air fork" advice and bought the Airborne $900 Seeker model with air fork. I made a good decision and the seeker is an awesome bike that can take whatever I can dish out. I new I would like the sport as I have a road bike and used to race motoX when I was young. 

For you, I would say get the $150 used bike and take it from there. The bikes you are looking at aren't a huge step up, depending on your POV, and will need to be replaced in short order if you like the sport and ride challenging trails. They will do for dirt roads and bike paths, however.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

GoKnights said:


> the bike they rent out is a Trek Superfly 100 AL - I know this is a much different bike, but I think this would give me a general idea.


Would you test drive a Porsche if buying a Volkswagen?

The j'ville cl had a bunch of good looking bikes in your price range the last time I looked.


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## nmum (Oct 10, 2013)

Not sure if you're still considering the Revel.

I got sold by my local bike shop on Giants when choosing between Giant and Specialized (the two brands they carried). So was kind of a fan of Giant and wanted a Revel.

But it looks like in recent years they kind of cheaped out on the parts of it. In the past they had different versions of the Revel. Where Revel 0 was the best, then 1, 2, etc.

And when I last looked they only offer this cheaper one now, which is the one you linked to.

So if you want something kind of decent, I'd probably take the Revel off your list. Not sure about the other bikes.


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## GoKnights (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

I did some research and think that the Cannondale offer I had was a pretty good deal, but I think it was the smart decision to wait on such a big purchase.

I've decided to rent a bike and ride with an experienced friend in 2 weeks to see if I want to invest in my own bike. I found another shop that is going to rent me a Specialized Rockhopper for $65 for the weekend.

If I end up liking it I will go ahead and look into getting my own bike, but I think I will start with used (unless I end up absolutely falling in love with it that day). I'm not sure where anyone saw a good selection of bikes on the Jax CL (95% of the bikes I see are Magna, Next, Mongoose, etc.), but I suppose I'll have to wait it out until I find a good one.

I'll still keep my options open for purchasing a new one if the price is exactly what I'm looking for, so thank you for the continued recommendations that you guys left me. Awesome community here.


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## ZHaunDK (Oct 9, 2014)

got a rockhopper here. I weigh in around 220lb and the stock equipment is enough to get started. I've put about 1500km or so on mine and have used it in races without any real issue. There is always better gear, but until you know where you need to invest, don't use the money. I got the rockhopper because the frame is upgrade-worthy unlike other entry level bikes I had to choose from (tapered headset, and combined weight of the bike was comparable with much higher spec'ed bikes, meaning the frame is most likely quite a bit lighter). 

The LBS was pushing a cube acid due to the air fork, but after putting time in on this bike, I'm much happier with this setup. As for coil XCM HLO forks. They are not as plush, but it absorbs the big hits just fine. And the fact that it's not plush means I don't have to worry about locking it out uphill. It has HLO so i've adjusted it a bit so there is a bit more dampning and never have to touch it really.


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