# It's really hard to support my LBS when they are rude and deceptive..



## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

Before I bought my Diamondbacks from a "box store" / chain store as often it's called, I visited a few LBS for bicycles for myself and the wife. Now I'm not a new rider nor a beginner. Just somebody getting back to the sport with enthusiasm. I go to a LBS and I have the sales guy try to sell me a bicycle that's 2 sizes too small. I'm 6'1 and he's pushing a 15inch Fuji hybrid on me even though I was looking for a hardtail mountain bike 29. At the moment, my wife is with me and the salesguy didn't realize she was looking for a bicycle and recommended the same 15 inch bicycle for offroad use. WTF His explanation for suggesting the 15 inch was it's easier to toss around and the 700c wheels/tires are 29 inch mtb wheels with street tires anyways. We walked out of there.

I visit another shop looking for the specialized rockhopper 29 disc and the sirrus for myself. Now I get their last inventory of a medium sirrus and large rockhopper and for my wfe , the same sized bikes. She's 5'2 .

Pretty annoyed, we went to Sport Chalet and the sales guy new more about bicycles than both LBS we've visited and helped my wife with the right bikes we were looking for. She ended up with a DB Insight and Response, and I got the Trace and Overdrive . All four on the same day and we're both happy with our purchases.

So I go looking for forks, pedals, lights, fenders, cranks and a few other things just to customize our bicycles so I decided to "do the right thing:" and try to support the LBS again. I decided to order what I was looking for since they didn't have them in stock and had to "special order" them all. No problem. 2 weeks go by and I don't get a call so I call only to be told they have to call me back. 3 days go by and without a call and I call again and they tell me the same thing. "they'll get back to me". Frustrated, I go to the shop and they tell me they only order every 2 weeks and they missed the order date for my stuff. Would of been nice if I was told that . 

I go home, see the stuff I was looking for originally online, order them and get them all a 2 days. I go back to the same Sport Chalet and ask if they can install the parts I ordered and he obliged for only $20 whereas the LBS wanted $50 or "more depending on materials needed" Only in less than an hour, he not only installed all the parts but tuned both our bikes for nothing. I slipped him $20 in gratitude. 

Now after visiting a few LBS , and my experience with them, I no longer care about loyalty and supporting the little guy. I'm just going where I can get good customer service. I don't want to pay someone for being rude , lied to, and don't have any customer service skills 

When I hear about another shop closing, I just think good riddance.


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## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

P.S - and what's with the "set up" fees for assembling the bicycles in their LBS shop? The Specialized stuff were $150 MORE at the store than on the retail price listed on the websites. Thank goodness for smart phones with internet, I show the sales guy/owner and he says it's for the set up, assembly, and tune ups plus sales tax above all of that . 

Such shenanigans

Burn LBS, Burn


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Are you really sure it is the best idea to put 5'2" person on 29r? 

But, yes, learning how to wrench on your bike is the best thing for saving time and moneys. Installing all the parts yourself is faster then driving to the store.

Enjoy your new bikes.


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## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

Axe said:


> Are you really sure it is the best idea to put 5'2" person on 29r?
> 
> But, yes, learning how to wrench on your bike is the best thing for saving time and moneys. Installing all the parts yourself is faster then driving to the store.
> 
> Enjoy your new bikes.


:thumbsup:

I purchased the bicycle tools at sport chalet. The kid who sold us the bikes and installed everything showed me all the tools I needed, plus stands. Too bad this guy doesn't work on commission.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Ahhhhh, Grashopper. When you can snatch this pebble from my hand it will be time for you to leave.

Seriously, there are good and bad lbs's. IME most run of mill shops are poor to bad. The dedicated mtb type shops with high end frames are usually good. I have some very very good lbs's around me. I realize you were not in the market for a $1500 frame so I sympathize with your experiences with "regular Joe's". Still...fitting a 15'' bike for someone your size is just plain ignorance, no matter the cost of the bike you are looking at. More likely they just don't care.


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## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

I feel your pain mate.
I think it comes down to the difference between a genuine enthusiast bike shop owner/staff and a businessman owner/staff trying to screw every last dollar out of the customer with no genuine interest in the sport or lifestyle they are selling other than making a buck.
Its usually pretty clear which is which when you walk in and start talking.
Some owners/staff need to realise that they are selling a luxury/lifestyle product and that customers often have a depth of knowledge exceeding their own and/or have saved and been looking forward to shopping for their purchase for some considerable time.

Nothing S**ts me more than sales staff that know less about the product they are selling than me.
How hard can it be to read an industry mag once a month to keep abreast of tech and products?

Case study 1)
Looking for a new bike late last year I checked out the local Felt dealer.
When I asked the sales guy what he thought of the new Dyna sys shifting and chain set on the bike in question he said, and I quote " Oh I dunno, I dont really know much about bikes and dont know what that is" *WTF* he's trying to sell me a bike worth $3500.00 that I was seriously interested in up to that point.
I walked out - after all what sort of after sales service could you expect?

Case study 2)
I was/am a huge m/cycle fan and have had around 30 since I was 15
A couple of years ago I had been looking at a new Motorcycle, I had read that the new Yamaha FZ1 was basically a sport bike without the full fairing so I went in to have a look with cash in my pocket 
As I stood and looked at the bike it became obvious that this was not the case, the bike was significantly lower specced than what I wanted [Brakes, Susp, no fuel injection etc].
When the young [20 something] salesman came up to me I politely explained this dissapointment.
I am a 47 year old man with more experience on bikes than he could possibly imagine but he turns around to me and pretends to pull a note book from his pocket and mimes writing a note while stating that "I am sure sure Mr Yamaha will be pleased to hear your comments and he will get right on it" all done with a huge exaggerated flourish.
The little F**king W***ker !!
How dare he dis me like that, I know my stuff when it come to 'bikes.
He was lucky that it only ended in me shouting abuse before the shop owner stepped in [Who I knew well, and later rang me to say he had fired the guy as it ws not the first time he had dissed a customer]

Vote with your feet mate - but not before you let them know how you really feel about their service


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## great_big_abyss (Apr 4, 2006)

I am so very sorry and disappointed to hear that you had this kind of experience at a dedicated bike store. I work for a bike store, and would like to think that I work for one of the best bike stores in my city. It makes me feel ashamed that there are folk in the industry who just don't give enough of a damn to serve a customer properly. A local bike store should be the *ULTIMATE* source of knowledge and quality bikes of all price ranges. Most employees should be active within the cycling community, and have at least a modicum of knowledge about the product that he is selling. The objective of a dedicated bike salesmen is to transfer knowledge to the lesser prepared. This includes different usages of different bikes and all the *CORRECT* features selling points of specific bikes.

Shame on your LBS's for not adhering to these standards.

The salesperson should at the _very least_ have know that 700c is NOT 29'r


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## lumber825 (Sep 4, 2009)

Now after visiting a few LBS said:


> Like anything else not all shops are equal. I got treated like crap at Bike Doctor in Gambrills MD. 4 minutes down the road Family Bike has treated me like gold from my first visit. Three years and 3 bikes later I still say they are awesome.
> 
> I tell my guys "if we don't take care of the customer someone else will".


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

There are good businesses and bad ones in any industry


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## deadbeat son (Feb 10, 2011)

Similar story here. I was just getting back in to MTBs after 10 years away. I worked in shops for six years in the 90s, but so much has changed I was looking for a good shop to help me wade through the BS and figure out what would actually be a good bike for my wife. We were looking to spend a couple of grand on a bike for her. I about had a fit when the "sales-kid" sent her out for a test-ride on a 15" frame when she's 5'8". We went to a few different shops and had that kind of response at more than one. I couldn't believe the apathetic lack of assistance we received from some reputable shops. I understand the first rule is sell what you have in stock, but still...


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## High Side (Apr 16, 2010)

I would tell a shop to kiss my ass if they wanted a dime over retail plus tax for a bike.


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## False (Feb 18, 2011)

jeffgre_6163 said:


> Nothing S**ts me more than sales staff that know less about the product they are selling than me.
> How hard can it be to read an industry mag once a month to keep abreast of tech and products?
> 
> Case study 1)
> ...


I work in a Performance (hardly a small owner-operated LBS) and I don't know **** about road bikes or derailleurs/drivetrains. I will tell a customer up front that I don't know anything about them other than how to fix them and will gladly go ask the Cat 2 road racer I work with to take over.

That said, just because he doesn't know about bikes doesn't mean no one else in the store does. I know BMX, DJ, and singlespeed mountain bikes; that's it. HOWEVER, we have nearly two dozen employees who are all fairly avid cyclists of one kind or another -from downhillers to keirin racers- one of them will probably know about what you're asking.


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## blt2drg (Apr 27, 2011)

I also had bad experiences at 3 LBS while searching for bikes for me and my wife. Two of them the people didnt seem to know much. I said upfront they were our first "real" mountain bikes but i have riden bmx for years. One of them tried to sell my wife a 19" frame when she's only 5'6", pretty sure it was because they didnt have any small frames instock. He told us frame sizes were pretty standard and the larger frame would hold up better over the long run. The 3rd place i went to had 2 employees in it and what must of been a friend halfway behind the counter shooting the crap with them about a baseball game. No other customers but me, i walked around inside this tiny shop for 20 minutes starring at the same couple bikes, but neither of them ever asked if i needed help. I take it they didnt like how i was dressed or my tattoo's, there loss since i had $1500 cash in my pocket. So, i too ended up at Sports Chalet where a guy younger than me came right up, asked how i was and what i was looking for, hour later he helped me roll two Marin 2010 closeouts to my truck. 

I come from retail, i worked in a small gun shop for almost 10 years. It was like the bike business where we couldnt compete 1 bit with internet prices so to make up for it you had to have good customer service and a little bit of knowledge. Half of it is greeting someone when they walk in the store, acting like you care, which i didnt get at any of the 3 shops i went to. It just seemed like none of the local shop needed my business really, kind of weird if you ask me. Since buying our bikes i've spent another $700 on parts and accessories that i would have shopped for locally if my experiences werent so bad. So its all about Jenson, Blue Sky, and Pricepoint for me.


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## ratmonkey (Feb 10, 2011)

3 of the 4 bike shops in my immediate area are great. They don't carry a large selection of mtb's (not much single track here). But they treat you great and all have a few racers on staff in just about every discipline you can practice within a couple hours drive. They treat you like they want you there, not like you're interrupting their break.
The other shop is staffed by hippies that probably haven't sold a bike in a decade, but I bet they've sold a ton more weed than any other shop does road bikes.


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Just like you, some LBS deserves to go belly up. These days with the economy so bad, you find the sales guy trying to make a sale just for the commission.

You can read up on how bad my service was when I bought my Giant Trance X4.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=704445 and scroll towards the bottom.


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop.. ya wanna know why we can be rude.. I'll break it down for you (note: I have been in this industry for 10+ plus and not a 16yo kid behind the counter..)

1. know your ****.. don't come into the store and I ask you want you have and you say you don't know.. we are not here to spoon feed you.. I ask for year make and model every time.. parts and part numbers are not all the same or "universal". Learn what you have.. I'm not asking you what kind of toaster you have.. you should know what kind of car you have.. what kind of bike you have.. what kind of "toy"; you have (ie rc cars, airsoft replica, paintball marker, etc) especially when you walk into the store..

2. Don't call.. honestly.. really do you call the grocery store to see if they have milk.. get your fat ass off the couch and come down to the store.. if we don't have it.. we can special order it.. if you don't want to come down.. don't call and waste my time, I usually have a line of customers, a ton of inventory to put away and a store to run.. order it off the internet..

3. Treat me nice and with respect.. I've been doing this a long time and have spent a lot of seat time and money and probably will smoke ya 9 times out of 10.. You don't have to take my advice but don't waste my effort if I'm really trying to help you avoid a costly mistake.

4. I'm not a know it all.. It takes time for me to research the part, the price and if I have it.. don't ask me if I have it or the price right off the bat.. have some patience while I look up the stuff you want.. Additionally if you know more then me about a particular product, I do appreciate you sharing your knowledge.. Don't be a ****in dick and be all tech and think you know more then me.. cuz we can go ridin' anytime and I'll make sure you puke in your helmet.. 

5. don't walk in and say I just call for this or that.. honestly I just got 10 calls from 10 other people asking for that exact same thing and I don't know who the **** you are.. additionally don't say you just call when in fact you call 3 hours ago.. or that you just called and in fact it was actually 2 weeks ago.. I'm pretty good at remembering idiots and you just put a big bullseye on you.. 

6. I don't want to hear your life story.. I'll be more then happy to tell you mine.. mine is way more interesting then yours.. and usually I have done it, seen it, broke it.. and have the scars and empty bank account to prove it..

7. Don't be an idiot.. I appreciate it's YOUR weekend but that doesn't mean you turn off your brain when you walk into the store. I also would appreciate if you were not drunk.. Additionally it's not my weekend.. if its a saturday.. that means it's my friday.. let me come to your work on a friday and be a dick see how you feel.. Additionally be respectful to my store.. I put a lot of effort in everyday to make sure it's clean, stocked etc.. Don't put your dirty chain on my paperwork filled desk, don't lean on my boxes full of expensive inventory that I'm trying to put away.. I'll be more then happy to come over to your house and put my dirty feet on your clean couch and take a big **** in your living room.. essentially that is what your doing to me right then and there..

8. Plan ahead.. seriously.. don't come into my store 5 minutes before we close saying you gotta get ready for a race tomorrow.. you're an idiot.. you should have been in the store 3-5 days ago getting ready.. that way I can help you prepare, make sure you are ready.. offer advice.. and enjoy helping your get ready.. (additionally come by after the race.. tell me the story.. I wanna see the pics, the scars.. I do value you as a customer and if I helped I wanna know how you did) 

9. Understand this.. If you break your bike.. you come see me.. if you break yourself.. it's 6 to 8 weeks or I don't see you.. I care.. I want you as a returning customer.. not paying my respects.. Just in the past 3 years, I've lost 5 customers.. granted they died doing what they loved but it does affect me and I remember.. So be safe and have fun

I think I cover most of it.. I'm sure there is more I can add but this is the major stuff..


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

jeffgre_6163 said:


> think it comes down to the difference between a genuine enthusiast bike shop owner/staff and a businessman owner/staff trying to screw every last dollar out of the customer with no genuine interest in the sport or lifestyle they are selling other than making a buck.


Actually we all start off as enthusiast but dealing with idiots or know it all's drive us to the point where we have to go home and drink excessively and beat our wives just to get our frustrations out



> How hard can it be to read an industry mag once a month to keep abreast of tech and products?


I'm there to work.. not read.. thusly we are giving training but we just cannot be prepared for some of the off the wall questions we get that y'all sit around on these internet sites thinking up.. seriously thanks to the internet.. a lot of the information I used to have is not longer available.. the manufacturers keep that info private.. so it makes my job just that much harder some times.. and information cost money if you want the information I have crack open your wallet and pay..



> When I asked the sales guy what he thought of the new Dyna sys shifting and chain set


We sometimes get to ride the product.. and it's usually once a year and for a day.. seriously unless I owned the product I'm really not going to know the answer to that question..



> I am a 47 year old man with more experience on bikes than he could possibly imagine


and if you approached me with that attitude, I would have mocked ya too.. I get 5 of y'all a day.. thinking they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.. Honestly I can say with most certainty that 98% of the people on the internet have never used their "toy" (ie motorcycle, bicycle, etc) to it's fullest capacity.. I get guys all the time.. Yeah I was 5th gear pinned.. ok there turbo.. you were 5th gear pinned on a stock bike going down a fire road.. that tops out at 85 mph... take my race bike out for a spin.. it tops out at 120 mph.. there is a difference between fast.. and scary omg white knuckle fast with big rocks and trees whizzing by ya in a .

understand this jeffgre_6163 I'm not calling you out in particular nor looking for a fight.. I'm taking your examples and showing what is going on the other side of the counter..


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

xenracer said:


> get your fat ass off the couch and come down to the store.. if we don't have it.. we can special order it.. if you don't want to come down.. don't call and waste my time, I usually have a line of customers, a ton of inventory to put away and a store to run.. order it off the internet..
> ...
> Treat me nice and with respect..


Seriously? You? With respect? After this sanctimonious smug rant?

Yes, there are good LBSes out there. I occasionally visit them, even as I usually order parts online. Their attitude is the complete opposite of yours.



xenracer said:


> and if you approached me with that attitude, I would have mocked ya too.. I get 5 of y'all a day.. thinking they are the greatest thing since sliced bread..


Don't you choke on that smug?



xenracer said:


> I'm there to work.. not read..
> 
> We sometimes get to ride the product.. and it's usually once a year and for a day.. seriously unless I owned the product I'm really not going to know the answer to that question..


So which one is it? You know everything better - or you don't?

Many of us do work full time. Somehow we find time to read, and not only about job.



xenracer said:


> I'm taking your examples and showing what is going on the other side of the counter..


You have nicely confirmed his point.


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

no all that has been proven is you know how to misquote and take things out of context.. 
which is typical of most customers.. they only want to hear what they wanna hear..



> Their attitude is the complete opposite of yours.


Well at least to your face.. if you only knew half the stuff we say as you leave.. 
don't believe me.. watch the movie Waiting.. Additionally if you even read my rant all the way and understood it's context.. well then I'd be asking too much since your reply obviously was misquoted, out of context and way off base


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## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

You quote my post so I have the right of reply



xenracer said:


> I'm there to work.. not read..
> 
> *Who said about reading it at work? I could not give a crap where you read it, on the john come to mention crap would be common and an efficient use of time , and I would have thought keeping up to date with new products, tech etc through industry literature WAS part of your work as is standard in most tech industries [Medical, engineering, computing etc and yes - Motoring]
> You say you get training on new products, Who from? presumably from industry reps flogging the products they represent - hardly impartial.
> ...


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

trunkating quotes for shorteness (not to be confused with context)



> Who said about reading it at work? etc etc etc


magazines are a bit partial. they are paid by the manufactuers in many cases.. so they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.. I'm soo over magazines.. They are just walking talking advertisement filled with more advertisement and occasionally a small gem of information. Where do I get my product knowledge from.. honestly.. you.. me.. spending time at the track.. and not on internet forums.. I'll read user reviews more so and take it with a grain of salt that most people that have reviewed the product did so after 5 minutes of getting the product and not having proper time to give a proper review..
Additionally I'm brutal when the sales reps come in and pitch their products.. I wanna know the who, what, when, where and why.. I look for design flaws right from the get go.. I additionally look at the price points.. margins suck.. period.. we are in business to make a profit.. honestly the internet sucks for business.. Everyone wants Walmart but expects Target.. Lemme come to your work and low ball you.. Go to walmart and ask for a discount.. they'll laugh at ya..

Additionally I wanna bring up a point that.. In the previous topics someone said setup fees.. Here is the deal.. so my mechanic works for free to put together the product? seems hardly fair, he works on commission.. Manufacturers don't pay us to put together these products and with the skinny margins.. The manufacturers don't pay us to sale their product (perse there are some exceptions rebates, bonuses, etc).. service doesn't recoup those charges and it's a loss/loss situation with all the other overhead we have to deal with.. and with current laws (at least here in california) we cannot sale an un-assemble unit.. too much liability..



> You totally missed my point


didn't miss the point.. wasn't debating that point.. I honestly hate sales people.. I work with one everyday that drives me frickin nuts.. so you even have my sympathies on that one somewhat.. but even still my sale guy has to deal with the afore mentioned rants to some extent



> "Mr MotoGP engineer" etc etc etc


don't know wasn't there for that one didn't hear that conversations.. listen different strokes, different folks.. I pissed off a customer the other day because I was juggling 3 other customers I was helping at the same time and he didn't feel I kissed his ass enough and I was answering in short direct to the point answers.. his wife complained to the sale guy... and after the dust was cleared.. my sale guy asked me what happened.. hey sorry but if I know I got a $200 sale on the table and you want me to drop everything to sale you a $2 part... sorry buddy come back when I'm not as busy or better yet.. have some patience..

retail is truly a very very thankless job.. what does make my day.. honestly is the connection and friendships I have made.. I have had customers buy me lunch.. invite me to their weddings (recently in fact), tip me, hang out and go ridin'.. so there are some perks to my low paying job with no benefits or future for that matter.. so while y'all are climbin the corporate latter buying the expensive toys and at least allowing me to have a job in the industry.. we are in the ditches trying to fight the good fight everyday putting up with the BS


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

last point before I sign off for the evening.. first.. it's the buyers responsibility to be informed.. you are talking to a sale person.. I sling parts and I'm even considered a sales person.. if you see BS.. call us on it (politely please).. ask to see invoices.. we don't mind taking the time to explain.. we do however mind having our time wasted.. 

looking forward to the responses..


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## dirtdonk (Jan 31, 2004)

xenracer said:


> If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop.. ya wanna know why we can be rude.. .


I stopped reading right there. All I need to know is what shop you work at so I can make sure I NEVER go there. I would post a few points but I know they will fall on dead ears. I do hope they open some day for your sake.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

as a LBS employee, i would be horrified if I saw my co-workers trying to force people to buy a bike that does not suit their stature or their riding style. my shop has no interest in fitting people on bikes that they will not enjoy and therefore, will not ride. people who don't ride are not return customers, so from a business standpoint, it's a bad idea. bike shops are profitable when their customers ride a lot and return to buy accessories, jerseys, shoes, upgrades, and new bikes, then tell their friends to do likewise.

on the other hand, the staff at my shop has a wide variety of experience and specialties, so if I don't know something with confidence, I get a second opinion from one of them. unfortunately, I have been to bike shops where they BS people and somehow stay in business.


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## Echo2 (Jul 21, 2010)

Xenracer, where would we get such information? You have already stated that mags are useless. The internet is arguable skewed to personal preference, as the greatest rider we are likely to encounter, wouldn't you be the person to ask?

I understand you have a business but I buy from my LBS because they are knowledgeable and want to sell me what fits my needs first with price as a component of the sale. 

I know most could smoke me on a trail...guess what...they don't expect me to worship their skill. 

We have a lbs filled with sales/wrenches/owner with your attitude. If you aren't sure what you NEED and it's not a high margin, they don't want your business. 

I'm very happy to comply and not spend there. As you suggest, I would rather order online than have to enter their doors. Once or twice year I go there just to confirm, yep still a**h***s.


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## Clones123 (Apr 29, 2010)

Ah, back to the topic at hand...

I've got three large LBS's near me and they're all knowledgeable, friendly, helpful and courteous plus being involved the local community. However, all three have obscene pricing and are clearly trying to make every dollar of profit possible from each customer, fairness and value be damned. I strongly suspect that each store has special A-list customers who pay discounted prices and I'm not keen to being be paying more than some folks just because I'm a D-list customer myself.

Anyway, I'm sorry but a LBS's business model is not my responsibility to finance. If Performance carries it, I can order it on their red phone with no shipping fee AND get them to price-match the lowest internet price (except Amazon and eBay) AND have price protection after the sale AND return anything I'm not 100% satisfied with. If Performance doesn't carry it, there are tons of great deals to be had online.

If all the LBS's near me went under under I don't think I'd even notice. If the two Performance stores near me went under, that would be a serious inconvenience but I would manage.

BTW; I too worked behind the parts counter at motorcycle shops for years. It was my *JOB* to provide customer service and give each customer their share of my time either in person or over the phone. Period. If there was a line of customers at the counter, fine, there was a line - one at a time. No judgments about who knew their s**t, what their attitude was or who was more important. Also, all customers paid the same retail price - no different grades of customers. The only exception was accessory discounts - on a helmet usually - negotiated by salesmen for customers buying a new bike (motorcycle) that day.


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## Big Virgil (Dec 8, 2008)

Xen - You might want to stop digging.



> We sometimes get to ride the product.. and it's usually once a year and for a day.. seriously unless I owned the product I'm really not going to know the answer to that question.


.



> Additionally I'm brutal when the sales reps come in and pitch their products.. I wanna know the who, what, when, where and why.. I look for design flaws right from the get go.


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

xenracer said:


> 2. Don't call.. honestly.. really do you call the grocery store to see if they have milk.. get your fat ass off the couch and come down to the store.. if we don't have it.. we can special order it.. if you don't want to come down.. don't call and waste my time, I usually have a line of customers, a ton of inventory to put away and a store to run.. order it off the internet..


I wished you owned a bike shop.  I would tell you to order a Santa Cruz XS Juliana, a XXS (YES, thats eXtra eXtra Small) Pivot Mach 4 and Mach 5 BOTH in 3 different configurations; XX, X0, and X9. All 7 bikes in female colors. I already called all the LBS listed on SC and Pivot site within a 120 mile radius and no one has a XS/XXS 2011 of these bikes...all need to be special order once I make a deposit....in case you know about CA, I drove from San Jose/San Francisco all the way to Sacramento just to look at a bike...and even drop by/called by some LBS in LA county during my vacation and no Pivot or Juliana either in XXS/XS.

I want to try those bikes out, and see which one I like better. I'll buy one after I get a chance to demo all 7 bikes, but not the rest.

Try finding a XS or XXS frame of a bike at a lot of the bike stores and you will see that most bike stores don't stock them because they have to pay up front to the bike manufacturer to order it. At least that's what the two LBS told me when they order bikes from these smaller manufacturers vs Trek, Giant, etc..

Lastly, GL selling the remaining 6 bikes. You don't get too many women coming in and saying "I like to buy a FS MTB XXS for $4000+++." LOL!!!!!


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

> I stopped reading right there. All I need to know is what shop you work at so I can make sure I NEVER go there.


First point.. then you miss all the great information I offered and honestly then I wouldn't want you in my store.. you'd waste my time and irritate my to tears.. I'm really surprised that y'all are missing the less obvious messages in my post.. so be it usually that is the case when ya are a sheep being spoon feed..



> Xen - You might want to stop digging.


Um.. no.. I'm having fun.. it's been years since I've had a good debate on an internet forum and y'all are just stirring the pot.. Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics.. who cares..



> I wished you owned a bike shop


 No thanks.. I see the headaches my principle has to deal with. I manage the parts department with a staff of one.. me! because of the economy we can't afford additional staff. so be it. not to say we couldn't use help.. we have been doing fairly well.. people are tired of sitting at home be worried about the economy and have been buying bikes left and right..

but to get to your statement about stocking.. I stock common sizes.. meaning if your big and tall or really really small I'd have to order.. It's not cost effective to have something sitting on a shelf for 3 years collecting dust. We are not in an economy anymore that can support that.. I have to pay for the parts up front and if I can't sell that part within 90 days or less it's no use stocking it.. having an inventory that is shallow and wide nowadays is better then narrow and deep.. Most of the distribution wherehouses are local and I can get the parts next day.. here is the kicker for that guy who had to wait 2 weeks.. some distributors have high minimums before we can order to avoid having to pay shipping or other fees.. case in point for one of my suppliers I have to order $500 worth of product to qualify for free shipping.. so if you order a 2 dollar part it might take me a while to get it.. now I personally will tell you this information and I'll suggest that you pay the shipping and I'll order your part that same day.. Guess what most people don't want to pay shipping on a $2 part from a store.. yet they'll go home and order the $2 part online and pay the $6 shipping.. go fig doesn't make sense to me..



> It was my JOB to provide customer service


and your very right.. I have had extensive customer service training.. I have been in the customer service industry for over 15 years.. in that time frame, I have seen the average IQ of the customers diminish.. people have become lazy and their expectations are unrealistic.. I honestly think I'll blame it on several things.. the internet.. our failing education system and democrats


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

_looking forward to the responses.._

I have always wondered why the air is so hot in Barstow.

Now I finally know the true answer.

People like xen that work in shops are one of the biggest reasons so many people work on their own bikes and buy parts from the internet.

_1. know your ****.. don't come into the store and I ask you want you have and you say you don't know.. we are not here to spoon feed you.. I ask for year make and model every time.. parts and part numbers are not all the same or "universal". Learn what you have.. I'm not asking you what kind of toaster you have.. you should know what kind of car you have.. what kind of bike you have.. what kind of "toy"; you have (ie rc cars, airsoft replica, paintball marker, etc) especially when you walk into the store.._

If the customer is supposed to know exactly what they need, there is no reason to to have some obnoxious counter jockey act like he's doing me a favor to order it for me. Those days are over, and that is a good thing.

News flash, informed DIYers almost never need the LBS.

_2. Don't call.. honestly.. really do you call the grocery store to see if they have milk.. get your fat ass off the couch and come down to the store.. if we don't have it.. we can special order it.. if you don't want to come down.. don't call and waste my time, I usually have a line of customers, a ton of inventory to put away and a store to run.. order it off the internet.._

Brilliant analogy  I know that the grocery store will, with 99% certainty, have milk. So when I drive 20 miles each way to get some, I have a 99% (or better actually) chance that I will walk out of that establishment with milk. Not so with the bike shop, and after I spend the time to drive 20 miles to the shop, I don't want to hear how you'll be happy (apparently a bald faced lie) to "special order" it for me when I could have saved myself the time, trouble, expense and experience of having the obnoxious counter jockey try to make me bow down to their self-imagined wonderfulness and 'special ordered' it myself for far less and have it on my doorstep within a few days or less.

Those that have wised up, that can do their own work, and prefer to enjoy their sport without all the condescension they get from so many shops, will do their own work and order from the internet. Guess who is left? The people that wander into the shop. . . . . your customers. The only people left that are willing to pay your bills. You are reaping what you have sown.

Not many motorcycle shops in your little slice of heaven. Looks like one, and another accessory/repair shop. The one shop that actaully is a dealer (and happens to be open Tuesday through Saturday: _"if its a saturday.. that means it's my friday"_ ) has this posted on their website:

_Our phone number is (XXX) XXX-XXXX; give us a call or send an email to [email protected]. We're waiting to hear from you.

We're happy to help you find either the perfect recreational vehicle or the parts you've been looking for. Check out our showroom and accessories department to see what we have; and if you need help in making your selection, call or stop in-we're always ready to help!_

If that is the shop you work at, maybe it would help if you posted your guidelines on the webpage instead of what is currently there. That will keep those annoying customers and their phone calls to a minimum.

_6. I don't want to hear your life story.. I'll be more then happy to tell you mine.. mine is way more interesting then yours.. and usually I have done it, seen it, broke it.. and have the scars and empty bank account to prove it.._

Your life story probably isn't as interesting to me as you assume it is either, and you obviously don't have time to stroke your own ego with that line of annoying customers waiting in line for you, so let's just agree to dispense with any fake pleasantries.

_4.* I'm not a know it all.. *It takes time for me to research the part, the price and if I have it.. don't ask me if I have it or the price right off the bat.. have some patience while I look up the stuff you want.. Additionally if you know more then me about a particular product, I do appreciate you sharing your knowledge.. *Don't be a ****in dick and be all tech and think you know more then me.. cuz we can go ridin' anytime and I'll make sure you puke in your helmet.. *_

Contradict yourself much? Walks and talks like a know-it-all, and reeks of bovine fecal matter. . . . . Must be a 'know-it-all'. Maybe it's the methane gas dispensed that makes them puke.

_8. Plan ahead.. seriously.. don't come into my store 5 minutes before we close saying you gotta get ready for a race tomorrow.. you're an idiot.. you should have been in the store 3-5 days ago getting ready.. that way I can help you prepare, make sure you are ready.. offer advice.. and enjoy helping your get ready.. (additionally come by after the race.. tell me the story.. I wanna see the pics, the scars.. I do value you as a customer and if I helped I wanna know how you did)_

If you're open Tuesday through Saturday, and it's Friday, I can't be in your shop 4 or 5 days ago because it's not open on those days. Not saying you have to be open those days, but that was your statement, not mine. Now, my lack of planning (or maybe my life has been more hectic than you could ever imagine) may not justify an emergency on your part, but in today's world, businesses that go the extra mile for a customer are much more likely to thrive and not merely survive. If he doesn't get parts on Friday and race on Saturday and Sunday, he won't be back for more on Tuesday (or next Friday) for more parts.

Most people that race, and especially those that have to buy their parts from a shop, do have to have jobs that pay enough to support their racing habit. Should they take time off from that job to come by your shop to pay MSRP (and quite possibly have to wait for you to order it) or just order it from the internet themselves and have it waiting for them on their doorstep for less money? If it's too much of a PITA, maybe they'll quit racing altogether.

I understand that shops have their share of challenging customers, but I would think it would be in a shop's best interest to cultivate relationships with their customers that would allow them to educate their customers as to how they can make it mutually beneficial to continue the relationship, and maybe even find a way to do it without the attitude.

Are all bike shops bad? No, there are some that work hard for the money and do quite well. But the big, bad internet is not going away anytime soon. The LBS model has to adjust or go away. It's not as much up to the customer to make that happen as it is to the business to make adjustments.


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

> If the customer is supposed to know exactly what they need..


 Honestly I would rather have an inexperience customer then a know it all. I can show them and build that relationship like you are talking about.. but like you said if they know what they need and I don't have it don't whine to me about it.. I'm not going to go out of the way to stock it for whatever reason to sale 1 every 6 months.. but alas my point is to know what you own.. is that soo tough of a requirement? seriously.. what kind of bike do you have? I get people all day long.. I have a 400... ok a 400 what? there are a dozen 400's on the market.. how am I suppose to know what you have? I'm not a mind reader or a therapist..



> I have a 99% (or better actually) chance that I will walk out of that establishment with milk


 You must live in the big city where everyone has everything.. yeah I live in barstow.. which is a fairly small town.. not the metropolis mecca of living your soo accustomed to.. There are stocking cycles at most retail stores.. even grocery stores for that matter.. in my store.. I get real thin on inventory come saturday.. reason being. UPS doesn't deliver on saturday for normal routes. so if items were backordered or out of stock come thursday.. I won't see those items till tuesday.. Your gotta have it now attitude reminds me of the Dead Kennedy's song "give me convenience or give me death"



> Not many motorcycle shops in your little slice of heaven.


 Actually we are in the motorcycle mecca.. there are a ton of shops within a 2 hour radias. So competition is pretty high.. WE are very competitive and do offer friendly service.. The topics I brought to the table are some of the reasoning behind why you will be treated rudely.. Additionally to add to that.. maybe just maybe you're being treated rudely at that moment in time.. perhaps my wife just called and we got in a fight or my boss just gave me a bumkiss job or whatever the case maybe.. it's a two way street.. just as I don't know what you're bringing into the store attitude wise.. you don't know what kinda of day I'm having either.. so again the whole PATIENCE and GOLDEN RULE concept I have been underlying these replies are going in one ear and out the other..



> Our phone number is.. We're happy to help you find etc etc That will keep those annoying customers and their phone calls to a minimum.


Ever heard of marketing and advertising.. I don't know of any website.. printed add etc that doesn't strive to put its best foot forward.. Again this topic is about the reasons behind a LBS being rude.. As Bill Engvall would say.. here's your sign..



> so let's just agree to dispense with any fake pleasantries.


 I took my gloves off when I interjected.. It's about volume today.. that is why the world shops at walmart.. hobbies are not traditionally been considered a high volume outlet yet we are being forced to the new retail models because of the internet and giant retail stores like walmart..



> Contradict yourself much?


Yup I'm a warmongering pacifist



> but I would think it would be in a shop's best interest to cultivate relationships with their customers that would allow them to educate their customers as to how they can make it mutually beneficial to continue the relationship, and maybe even find a way to do it without the attitude.


I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.. however you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink as well.. We attempt to meet every customer half way.. and in most cases more.. but understand just as you have choices of where to buy your parts.. we additionally have the right to refuse service.. (yet when we do we are the bad guys go fig)


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

> People like xen


dude seriously.. you know me? I'm just little 0 and 1's here on the internet.. you don't know me, what I do, who I am.. all you know is that I'm from barstow and work in the motorcycle industry.. that doesn't frame up who I am


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

Additionally I want to bring this into the fold.. taken from

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=709192



markaitch said:


> on a side note, i am detecting what is to me a disturbing trend here. there was another similar thread near this one, posted by another brand new member who accused his lbs of lying & deceit. one of the strongest counter-arguments to the constant bikedirect shilling in the beginner forum is the availability of test-rides, direct personal customer service & warranty help at a local shop. of course there are good & not-so-good shops around but i have to wonder whether there may not be a bit of a concerted effort going on to make them look, in general, less reliable.


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## ratmonkey (Feb 10, 2011)

Xen, don't call? Are you serious? 

you are a shinning example of the worst parts counter monkeys I've ever met. 

Are you trolling or super cereal here? I can't believe you posted the perfect jerk store guy without some thought put into it.


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

ratmonkey said:


> Xen, don't call? Are you serious?
> you are a shinning example of the worst parts counter monkeys I've ever met.
> Are you trolling or super cereal here? I can't believe you posted the perfect jerk store guy without some thought put into it.


again another perfect example.. lemme dig out another sign..
lemme guess you skimmed over the conversation.. yeah I didn't think at all about my replies.. not one bit.. 
Oh you met me? where?!?
so I posted the perfect jerk store guy.. here on the internet OMG!!!
quick somebody call the WHAAAMMBULLAANNCE


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I wonder why internet sales are booming???


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

xenracer said:


> Well at least to your face.. if you only knew half the stuff we say as you leave..
> don't believe me.. watch the movie Waiting.. Additionally if you even read my rant all the way and understood it's context.. well then I'd be asking too much since your reply obviously was misquoted, out of context and way off base


You assume that. Because that is how you behave.

But folks I meet at some local shops and then meet on trails and some group rides are not like you. I have little actual use in local shops, as very few folks there have better technical and mechanical skills then I do and prices are not as good, but that does not make them behave with an asshat attitude. I stop by to buy occasional things just because of that.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

_Actually we are in the motorcycle mecca.. there are a ton of shops within a 2 hour radias._

xen, if you have only been in the business "10+ years", there's a good chance I was riding dirt bikes around Bell Mountain & Soggy Dry Lake before you were born.

_You must live in the big city where everyone has everything.. yeah I live in barstow.. which is a fairly small town.. not the metropolis mecca of living your soo accustomed to.. _

_dude seriously.. you know me? I'm just little 0 and 1's here on the internet.. you don't know me, what I do, who I am.. all you know is that I'm from barstow and work in the motorcycle industry.. that doesn't frame up who I am_

_Oh you met me? where?!?_

Pot meet kettle. Nice assumption, but wrong again. It wasn't that long ago I had to drive over 10 miles to get to the nearest true grocery store myself. We had a diesel/gas station, that was a converted mobilehome on stilts that had a giant confederate flag flying outside, to shop at if we didn't want to drive to the grocery store. Not as far out as Barstow, but not exactly a "metropolis mecca" and less tweakers.

Just to give you an idea:










_Your gotta have it now attitude reminds me of the Dead Kennedy's song "give me convenience or give me death"_

I don't "gotta have it now", but many times, I can get it far sooner than a shop is willing to. I ride more days than I don't and 'stocking cycles' and what day a shop does their ordering aren't my problems. If I can get a part I need without the hassle of going to the shop, and get it way sooner, not to mention quite a bit cheaper I am going to do it. Why wouldn't I?

Would you drive across town to shop at a store that may not have what you want, doesn't want you to bother calling ahead for the part, and will charge you considerably more to get it a week or more after you can get it by spending a few minutes on the computer?

The game has changed so it's no use clinging to the idea that the customer doesn't have alternatives. Adapt or die.

_I took my gloves off when I interjected.. It's about volume today.. that is why the world shops at walmart.. hobbies are not traditionally been considered a high volume outlet yet we are being forced to the new retail models because of the internet and giant retail stores like walmart.._

Kodak no longer makes Kodachrome and refrigerators put the ice man (mostly) out of business. Adapt and innovate or die. The customer votes with their dollars and it's up to business to adapt or die. Some will and some won't.

This thread is about the OP being deceived and treated rudely, and it sounds to me like that is exactly what happened.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

All of us know a LBS we don't like, BFD, move on. There is one near a local ride spot, I didn't care for them much so I haven't been back. BFD, move on. I work in a trade with customers all day long, the vast majority are very nice, grateful people. Very rarely there is a jerk, BFD, move on. Sometimes my bosses are ***holes, BFD, I don't take it out on customers or co-workers. If I hated people as much as some of the rantings in this thread I would consider another job, possibly a nighttime janitor so I could converse with a mop. The problem is not your customers, it is _you. _You might seriously consider that janitor job, mr. kazynski...


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I think xenracer is very charismatic and he seems very serviceminded towards his customers.:bluefrown:


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## dunerinaz (Mar 5, 2009)

It's very simple. If the customer service sucks, I walk, but not before letting the shop owner/manager know why.

I was in the market for a new AM bike recently and inquired about a particular bike at the LBS. I told the guy what I was interested in and was immediately told "you don't need that. This bike here is way better". When I told him I wasn't interested in his opinion of what I need, he spouts off "who's the professional here, me or you"?. I politely smiled and left, knowing the manager was not there. I did however make sure the shop owner was aware that he lost a +$5k sale based on his "professional" employee. He wasn't happy.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

"The professional" would probably get higher commission on the bike he recommended.

I wonder what exactly he meant with "professional", he was a professional rider or?? Wouldn't he be out riding then..

He probably meant professional salesman and those are always trustworthy. They sell so much stuff so they must know all about it right, and they gain all that professional knowledge by selling stuff in a store. That makes sense to me at least. The people in the shop always know whats best for the customer, a customer which they have seen for 2 minutes and which they know absolutely nothing about.

I'm lucky, in my town there are many LBS and some of them are really good, but bikes are sold in pretty much all sporting goods stores too, and they pretty much know next to nothing about anything but at least they don't have that smug attitude, they know that they don't know and they tell you. And they are willing to help should you need anything


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## Markapuu (Feb 24, 2011)

Had a salesman tell me to test ride a Specialized Myka, which I believe is a women's bike.....


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

> xen, if you have only been in the business "10+ years", there's a good chance I was riding dirt bikes around Bell Mountain & Soggy Dry Lake before you were born.


Oh man.. good one.. wanna know my creds.. ok.. I've been on 2 wheels since I could walk.. got 5 class championship and have competed in over 600 desert, motorcross, enduro and grand prix races here in so cal.. plus I come from a 'racin' family 2nd gen.. I lived right next to bell mountain for 3 years before moving to barstow.. I know stoddard valley and lucerne valley like the back of my hand.. so yes I'm a professional and there is a big difference between the sides of the counter you side on.. believe me..

not to say there are idiots on both sides of the counter either.. but truly that isn't being rude..


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## False (Feb 18, 2011)

Ellipses (or whatever you want to call those double period things) are not periods. They should not end every sentence. You come across like you have to pause and think about every sentence you type. It doesn't flow and it makes it read like a bunch of jumbled thoughts even when it would be a cohesive paragraph otherwise. I hate to sound like an English teacher, but what, exactly, is the point of adding keystrokes to be _wrong?_ /grammar nazi

No matter what your background and level of experience/knowledge I would steer clear of your shop after reading this thread. I would hate to deal with a salesman or mechanic that actually talks to people like you have in this thread.


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## xenracer (May 13, 2011)

well then this topic should be locked by the mods.. I've grown tried of this rhetoric.. ya have officially bored me to tears.. ya try to help people and they don't understand....

keep looking through your world with those rose colored glasses on..


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## mhix01 (Apr 26, 2011)

I think xenracer has admirably demonstrated why some of us don't enjoy our L(whatever)S's. I think we could tolerate the bad prices if we didn't have to put up with bad attitude. I'm just getting into mountain biking and most of the guys I've talked to spend most of their money online. I'm trying to support my LBS's but I'm having mixed feelings about it.

My most local LBS is very small - they're very friendly and helpful though, I just wish they were bigger and carried more bikes and accessories. The other LBS I've been to was OK - they wouldn't budge on price (which I kind of get) but they weren't friendly at all. They weren't unfriendly you understand, just not friendly. I think if I had to sell at full retail and couldn't budge on price, I'd at least be apologetic and be appreciative that a customer wanted to buy from me anyway. Another store near me (there aren't that many) apparently not only charges full retail, but also charges for shipping to their store on things they don't have in stock. What? Why would anyone NOT order online instead of using them? 

It's sad to me really, I'd rather support the local shops. I like having a place I can go see and try things in person and talk to someone who knows about bikes. 

The fact is the customer holds all the cards - they decide where to spend their money. Guys with attitudes like xenracer's seem to think they're doing you a favor by allowing you buy from them. We consumers have the choice here, we decide where the money goes. 

To be fair to xen though, I do sympathize about annoying customers. I'd never make it in retail - I'm not to good at biting my tongue. Still, if you want people to spend their money with you, you've got to give them some reason to do so. Being rude and arrogant won't do it for most people. If you want to be rude, you've got to offer a good deal. If you want to charge full retail, you need to work on your relationship skills.


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## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

kind of funny because I'm i the Motorcycle Industry myself. Started off cleaning motorcycles in the showrooms, service dept. making sure batteries were fully charged, filling them with gas. Moved to the parts dept, learned everything about each moving parts from the motors and all of the accessories suited for each motorcycle. Moved up to sales and eventually a sales manager. 

I worked from every brand from the big 4 Japanese, exotic Italians from Ducati, Aprilia, MV Augustas, and rugged Germans BMW and KTMs.

I learned on my own and about every characters of each motorcycles , pros and cons, and listen to every customer of what they wanted. Even if they were to compare my brand and wanted a certain feature (midrange, lowend, highend power), street, track, racing touring, offroad adventure riding, supermotos, dualsports, etc, I'd make sure I knew everything about each motorcycle under the sun and advise the customer that what we may have may not suit their needs but welcome them for any other service we can provide. Why? Because its better to gain a longterm relationship with every customer that walks in or call. Sure, they may not buy a motorcycle, but I gain them as a customer for accessories or service and eventually have the same customer come back when they finally like a certain model I carry in the future. 

Does giving customer service work for both sides of the counter? Sure do. For each time, I've been offered a new position and move up at another dealership. With today's economy, many motorcycle dealerships are barely making it and many have closed or are closing soon. Sure, I'm worried for my fellow employees of their future but because of how I treat everyone that walks in to my doors or over the phone, one might offer me a new job in their place. 

This week I'm starting a new position at an auto dealership offered to me from a customer who is a general manager in the auto sales. 

I'm glad the customer service I've offered rewarded me because you never know who walks in everyday.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

xenracer said:


> well then this topic should be locked by the mods.. I've grown tried of this rhetoric.. ya have officially bored me to tears.. ya try to help people and they don't understand....
> 
> keep looking through your world with those rose colored glasses on..


You really hate your life and your job, don't you? 

It's OK, just try to realize that not everybody around is a misanthropic and irascible grouch.


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

this is great. xenracer is a perfect example of the crappy customer service the OP was frustrated about. 

folks - give the mom and pop stores a chance. if you come across a xenracer behind the counter then never come back in. that simple.


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

To the OP: did you ask to speak to the owner/manager and tell him/her about your experience? As a person that was a manager of a big retail store for a while and now work in the mom and pop retail world, I can tell you the manager needs to know. They cannot be everywhere all the time and if there is someone that is undermining their business without them knowing, they need that info.

I've had it happen too many times (and recently I saw it happen where I work) where an employee puts on a good "game face" in front of the manager/owner and when they aren't around, are completely different. Give the owner/manager the opportunity to fix the issue. 

And, maybe you did tell them. If so, then obviously you did the right thing by taking your $$ elsewhere.


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Markapuu said:


> Had a salesman tell me to test ride a Specialized Myka, which I believe is a women's bike.....


I had an adult Salesman try to sell a helmet to my nephew that was too small. Then he said it's not too small and he puts it on and says, "See, it fits me."

Talking about too pushy...but we did get a good laugh later on in the car.



mhix01 said:


> Another store near me (there aren't that many) apparently not only charges full retail, but also charges for shipping to their store on things they don't have in stock. What? Why would anyone NOT order online instead of using them?


Not only that, you have to pay sales tax of 9.75% and that tax money doesn't go to help out the city/county, just into the pocket of the greedy politicians who says it goes to helping out the city/county.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

OP, as a shop employee for a long time I completely understand your poor experience. Now that I am no longer employed as a wrench, I have the good fortune that the closest shop to me is quite good; but that is not the norm. I think for every shop full of good people and good service there are at least 3 that are completely worthless and full of either uninformed idiots or full of themselves a-holes.

I'm in a town where we have dozens of bike shops within a half hour of me, and some really fantastic shops just outside that range too. Even our big box stores are fairly well equipped with people who are at least friendly if they're not as good as most of the LBSs. So I support your decision to go with a store that provides you good customer service, but remember that not every shop is worthless. Some of them legitimately go out of their way to help people and to know what they're doing. I've had the good fortune to work for two such shops and to live in close proximity to several others.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

great_big_abyss said:


> The salesperson should at the _very least_ have know that 700c is NOT 29'r


Might want to watch out for this shop too...


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## Pimpride (Nov 14, 2005)

The best shops get as many people out riding as possible. People who actually ride their bike regularly tend to upgrade / replace and repair their bikes more, usually with the shop they ride with. Beginners will become intermediates then advanced riders by riding a lot. Shops need to be proactive getting local riders on trail. What better place to sell a custom Chris King wheelset than on trail after a grueling ride. ----> shop employee / owner, "do you know what will help with those climbs, plus spin up quicker coming out of curves?" ---> beginner/intermediate rider, "what?" ---> shop employee / owner "a new custom Chris King wheelset"..... The doctor / lawyer / customer wants to spend money... You got to make the sale.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

xenracer said:


> dude seriously.. you know me? I'm just little 0 and 1's here on the internet.. you don't know me, what I do, who I am.. all you know is that I'm from barstow and work in the motorcycle industry.. that doesn't frame up who I am


Of course we know you. You have presented yourself in all the ugly details, quoted for posterity.


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## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

Team Fubar Rider said:


> To the OP: did you ask to speak to the owner/manager and tell him/her about your experience?


It was the owner himself that was trying to sell me the Specialized at $150 above retail price with the "freight/setup" fees + sales tax above it all. At first I wasn't evens sure it was the right model I was comparing with Specialized website but the owner himself confirmed it was the exact model but with additional fees.

The Fuji shop, the manager himself was defending his employee for trying to sell the wrong size hybrid and calling it a 29 hardtail. "Most people just need a hybrid on trails"


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## JimmyNeutron10101 (Jan 3, 2011)

Just Another John said:


> It was the owner himself that was trying to sell me the Specialized at $150 above retail price with the "freight/setup" fees + sales tax above it all.


I got the same crap from the LBS that I bought my Giant Trance X4 from. They told me if I want my Giant in 4 days I would have to pay $35 for freight. If I don't pay, it can be weekS before I get my bike.

I said to myself, "No one else pays and they get their bike in 4 days and I have to pay just because you screwed up on the prices on the internet and I get the bike for $70 less then listed? and now you want to screw me over by imposing some scamming charges???"

Lucky for them, my bike came in in 2 weeks as written on my receipt and not 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.. weeks later . Else, CHARGEBACK!


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## alkemyst (Sep 30, 2009)

wow xen! You may not be a 16 yo kid, but are you a 22 or so old kid?

I work in the computer network industry. I am make a really good living. Yeah I have to keep current, read books...I have to travel, etc.

However, if my customers/clients knew what I did...I'd really not have a job. They may call me out of the blue and just ramble about stuff not in their budgets...I may even buy them lunch. I will usually have to work late now to make up the hours, since as a consulting engineer I have to be billable.

To the other people, this is sort of the attitude I have found out there. It's hard to find any good service business today...some pimple-face is behind the counter and thinks because they can play during the day with what you can afford to buy, but don't understand that they are now better than you.

I am usually a well-educated customer. Maybe I am just nuts, but since I have to read/research so much anyway I tend to do it on everything from a $10 trinket to 5 figures.

I know when I am being lied to fortunately and will complain. Sometimes you get a smirk from the manager, sometimes they are concerned. Either way I make sure when the subject comes up that I mention the good and bad out there.

I can't say I am going to destroy anyone's business or make them rich...but quite a few times I have swayed someone away from one place and to another.

I just bought a bike tonight. Way under what I expected to pay. I was figuring there was some catch and I was driving a hour out of my way to check it out.

It was close to closing time and they treated me well. My leftover model was way up on the racks and he had to bring out a ladder. I wanted to try the next size down and he had to go back up after telling me the bike was a great fit. He didn't complain I doubted him, he answered "sure, let's try it out. Make sure you not only test standover but how you feel in the seat." Ran up that ladder like a squirrel and brought me a bike within 5 secs I asked him to put back.

Had a ton of probably stupid questions as well and now it was closing time. Gear changed a lot on me over 10 years. Took the time to explain...picked up some 'idiot lights', a couple pumps, helmet, and a rack for my car that he put on for me.

I have known some people to be shopping at a lower end as well and then claim the shops I knew always treated me right even prior to hearing a budget complain about bad service and all that. Much of the time though someone else or more have had the same good experiences.

I do agree is someone is selling something for $10 as well as another thing for $100k you may be put on the back burner for the latter customer, however; if the shop is clear and you are just looking for that trinket they should still treat you like the high-roller.


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## alkemyst (Sep 30, 2009)

I am hoping xen and john arent the same person trying to prove a point...I keep reading both's experiences and find my mouth dropped.


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## False (Feb 18, 2011)

JimmyNeutron10101 said:


> I got the same crap from the LBS that I bought my Giant Trance X4 from. They told me if I want my Giant in 4 days I would have to pay $35 for freight. If I don't pay, it can be weekS before I get my bike.


That makes total sense to me. It's very easy to add a bike to the shipment that is getting ready to ship to the store (we get about 30 bikes at a time), but if you want your bike sooner then you're going to have to pay for it's shipping. It's a hassle for the distributor and the shop to ship it separately.


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## alkemyst (Sep 30, 2009)

Are we talking about paying shipping for a bike in store already or a special order?

Special order bikes are always going to have a fee. It's in the store's best interests at time, much like car dealerships. If everyone wanted to order a 'fresh' out of box bike, then the LBS wouldn't have any bikes in stock...you may as well buy online.


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## Just Another John (Apr 29, 2011)

In stock on the showroom floor. Not special order. Heck, even Performance Bicycle offered to build a bike after a day or so and sell the bike as marked on the manufacturers website or even less. If the shop doesn't have it in stock, I'm not going to to waste their time. But again, Sport Chalet had them in stock so the wife and I did purchase our bikes on the spot.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

I only buy from biking stores in renowned biking towns. The bike culture must be very strong. I'd never buy from an LBS in Bumblephuck, Alabama, no matter what excellent brands they'd have.

I know this may not be feasible for everyone.


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## mtblucas (Apr 28, 2010)

I didn't read through all the posts so this may have already been suggested. Mtbr.com has a bike shop review. You can go there and search for shops in your area and find out what other people think about them before ever stepping foot in the store.


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## wickedone31 (Jul 18, 2010)

xenracer said:


> If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop..* ya wanna know why we can be rude*..


It's clear by Xen's rant he has no clue about retail business. The whole reason any retail store is in business is because customers are spending money. If you have no customers you have no business. Stop acting like the customer are inconveniencing you, or wasting your time because you have things you have to stock or paper work to do. YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ANY PAPER WORK TO DO OR ANYTHING TO STOCK IF IT WASN'T FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS!! With the economy the way it is, businesses need to provide either lower prices or better service to stay competative. Since most LBS's can't compete with huge Internet retailers, the way they stand out is by providing excellent service and building relationships with their customers. I'f the owner of your shop is worried about his bottom line he should get rid of you, because all you're doing is driving customers away. Every customer that walks out that door unhappy counts for 50 lost customers. Word of mouth has a huge impact on sales. I just hope your boss wises up soon, because I fear if he doesn't the future of your shop is finite.:nono:


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## naiku (Apr 17, 2009)

Reading this thread makes me happy that I have a great LBS. They are a bit of a drive from my house, but anytime I have been in there have been very helpful. Which is exactly why when I plan to pick up new bike, it will be the 3rd bike I buy from them.


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## hahdtail (Apr 28, 2011)

Unless you're just getting tubes or something it's pretty much impossible to justify buying parts from any LBS. you're gonna end up paying about 30% more easily and the sales rep is going to be less knowledgeable than you, full stop.


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## mudforlunch (Aug 9, 2004)

lumber825 said:


> Like anything else not all shops are equal. I got treated like crap at Bike Doctor in Gambrills MD. 4 minutes down the road Family Bike has treated me like gold from my first visit. Three years and 3 bikes later I still say they are awesome.
> 
> I tell my guys "if we don't take care of the customer someone else will".


Amen to that. I had the same experience at that Bike Doctor like 3 years ago. I was looking for some spare Shimano hub parts to repair a wheel, and the dude there tried telling me "hubs aren't meant to come apart" and I need to replace the whole thing. Went down the road to Family Bke and they et me look through their wheel parts bin and I found my stuff for the price of the change in my pocket. I've boycotted all Bike Doctors since.


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## Gritter (Dec 21, 2010)

Just Another John, I so completely agree with you. If it weren't for the internet, I would have given up bicycles a long time ago. Better selection, (way) better prices, no tax, (usually) free shipping, etc. 

I've invested a small fortune in Park Tools, just to never have to step foot into an LBS, and it's paid off considerably. It seems bike shop employees don't frequent the forums, as I tend to be much more knowledgeable than all the ones I've had the displeasure of talking to. 

The last time I was in my LBS, the OWNER refused to hook me up with an empty box. He said he didn't have any, and he wouldn't be getting any. I said, "Really? You don't receive bicycles in boxes?" He told me no. I even offered to pay real money for a box, but was declined. What a tool. 

Since that day, I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars online, and I'm sure I'll spend a lot more in the future. If he only knew what kind of business he turned away that day. :ciappa:

A certain website often has sales on components for more than half off, and I recently ordered a complete bicycle from them. They shipped it within a couple of days, and it was 51% off retail. That's just unheard of from the LBS's in my area. I even got the box. :thumbsup:

The tax I saved (and free shipping) got me a crap-ton of accessories that I would have had to pay an arm and a leg for at an LBS (+ more taxes). 

Every time I've went into a Bike Shop, I have been treated like a moron, who doesn't know the first thing about bikes. They ALWAYS argue with me, telling me I'm wrong and that (whatever they have in stock) is better because... and usually their selection consists of brands I don't like, as well as being overpriced. 

I've watched their tools slip and gouge painted frames. I've seen them strip bolt heads, etc. Low wage earning, young kids doing the dirty work. Before I learned to service my own bikes, they'd tell me to drop my bike off for a few days to a week or more, for simple tasks. No thank you. 

Yet somehow they stay in business. I feel so sorry for the soccer moms and other people just starting out, trying to get into this hobby, being ripped off and taken advantage of, keeping their doors open. 

I honestly don't see the point, when everyone says, "Support your LBS!" I say, "Why?" They aren't worth their weight in cardboard boxes.


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## iceboxsteve (Feb 22, 2012)

Ah, I haven't had much time to read through this entire thread but I think I get the idea. I'm glad to know I am not the only one who feels LBS are a bit overrated. It took over a thousand dollars for the owners at one shop to finally acknowledge me. As a young guy who was in college then I thought they would be the best help to getting into cycling, except for the cash I handed over I was severely wrong.

Living back here in CT I see the same over and over. Few shops in my area and most want nothing to do with me because I am neither a Euro Snob nor a rich guy. Stopping in to pick up a quick spoke and chit chat on rides was like pulling teeth.

If it weren't for a few guys in my area and the internet I would probably have never gotten on a bike. I still struggle to learn more and really wish most LBS's would get the seatpost out of their ... and be a bit kinder/more helpful.

That being said I have heard myths of the rare good shop, yet to encounter it in my journeys.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dundundata said:


> There are good businesses and bad ones in any industry


Ding Ding!!

I guess I'm lucky, the 3 I work with currently are great. It boils down to the fact that all people are different and so with 'people' working the shop, you get different experiences.

Years ago I was looking for a bike for my wife- this was before WSD bikes became the rage.
There are 2 shops in the area about 1-1.5 hours apart, at the time I didn't know they were owned by the same person.

To make a long story short, I got better service at the one a hour away by a manager, then I did at the one 20 minutes away, run by the owner of both- go figure.


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## Inuitbiker (Mar 18, 2011)

Trying being not white. You get unwarranted attention until you spend over U$4k then you get the good kind of attention. At least here in the US. 

Go to Asia and its a different story.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

There are 5 in my town and I only go to one... The furthest away... 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## bennyblanco2121 (Feb 2, 2012)

I guess I'm lucky, because at my lbs they are really nice people. The owner even gave me free tools from his person stack because he didn't have any of the ones i needed in stock. And I'm Hispanic  

sent from my bike.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm Hispanic too! 
I like the "sent from my bike" at the end of your post. I can't get this stupid app to stop posting that sent from thing. I got tired of.deleting it. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## bennyblanco2121 (Feb 2, 2012)

At the start of the app, Hit menu and you going to see customize, write whatever you want. 

sent from my bike.


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## ckropp (Jun 20, 2007)

I see your join date is Feb 2012 to MTBR. Seems to me like you're getting into cycling on the wrong foot. Instead of complaining about the fact that guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and shoot the s**t with you all day, maybe you should just go for a ride and clear your head. The bike shop is there to sell you bike components. Maybe you should take a look at your behavior before you say "they wanted nothing to do with you."

PS $1000 is chump change to a bike shop. Just because you spend money somewhere does not mean you have to be treated like a VIP.


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## mtblucas (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow Gritter, do you feel better now? 

FWIW, I know of several bike shops that do great work and have excellent customer service. Sure they may be a little more expensive than the internet but I appreciate being able to try bikes before I buy them. I do try to support bike shops because, as cyclists, we do need them from time to time. I can think of several times, while on cycling trips, bike shops saved the day. I don't think waiting for Pricepont to send a derailleur and chain would have allowd me to get any more riding in during last year's Moab trip. Thanks to Poison Spider bike shop I was was back on the bike in a few hours.


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## Gritter (Dec 21, 2010)

mtblucas, 

I should have clarified - I was talking about the LBS's in my local area. When I used to live in a large city, I did enjoy some bike shops, and gave them my business often. It's here, in this small town, where my rant was directed.


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## CharleyGnarlyP290 (Apr 26, 2010)

This thread is interesting. We have a few bike shops here in town, but I only use two. One of them is geared more towards road bikes, and the other just isn't real friendly.
The two I use are great though. One has been around for over one hundred years, and I have developed a pretty good relationship with them. The other shop is brand new and the owner/operator is a great guy.
In the older shop, I listened in on a conversation between the guy I usually deal with and a customer. LBS guy is telling him about the bikes, and the customer remarks that he can get it cheaper online. LBS guy replies that, yes, he probably can, but it will be unassembled, won't come with free tuneups, and things could get sticky with a warranty situation. He said all of this in a conversational manner. Not rude or condescending. The customer asked if the LBS would put the bike together if he did buy online, LBS guy said they could and gave him an idea of price and what tune ups cost. 
I thought he handled it well, and served to reinforce my opinion of this shop.
I try to support the LBS, but sometimes, depending on the part, I do order online. If it is within a reasonable amount I will go ahead and buy local. For more serious $$$ I order online.


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## -bert- (Feb 22, 2012)

I went to two of my LBSs. Both of them i feel treated me fairly. In the first shop i was looking around and hadnt been helped yet. The owner comes into the shop on his bike, and hopped off and immedietly started helping me out. He sized me on two different bikes, a jamis and a gt. He answered all my questions, from tubeless tires, clipless pedals, 26er vs 29er, etc. 

The second shop was also very informative but the owner seemed a bit biased towards pushing one certain bike over the others. I plan on buying my bike used from someone on craigslist, but i will support the first bike shop when it comes to upgrades and tune ups.


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## mtblucas (Apr 28, 2010)

Gritter,

I definitely agree that there are shops out there that are very sub-par. I have seen a few that I could rant about. I'm lucky to live in an area that has a plethora of bike shops. I have found a few that are awesome. I feel for ya not having a reliable shop nearby : (


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## pattongb (Jun 5, 2011)

xenracer said:


> If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop.. ya wanna know why we can be rude.. I'll break it down for you (note: I have been in this industry for 10+ plus and not a 16yo kid behind the counter..)
> 
> 1. know your ****.. don't come into the store and I ask you want you have and you say you don't know.. we are not here to spoon feed you.. I ask for year make and model every time.. parts and part numbers are not all the same or "universal". Learn what you have.. I'm not asking you what kind of toaster you have.. you should know what kind of car you have.. what kind of bike you have.. what kind of "toy"; you have (ie rc cars, airsoft replica, paintball marker, etc) especially when you walk into the store..
> 
> ...


Xenracer ive been in the service industry a very long time; I know you, your that guy who should have got out of the business a long long time ago. Everyone has a customer service tank, and even the best service industry people burn out, eventually, their tank simply runs dry and they have ZERO patience or empahty left for any guest, no matter how small their plight.

You are at that point. Actually judging by your self serving rants, id say you past that point a long time ago.

Do yourself and your customers a favor and hand the business over to a fresh set of legs.

Thanks,:thumbsup:


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## pattongb (Jun 5, 2011)

ckropp said:


> I see your join date is Feb 2012 to MTBR. Seems to me like you're getting into cycling on the wrong foot. Instead of complaining about the fact that guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and shoot the s**t with you all day, maybe you should just go for a ride and clear your head. The bike shop is there to sell you bike components. Maybe you should take a look at your behavior before you say "they wanted nothing to do with you."
> 
> PS $1000 is chump change to a bike shop. Just because you spend money somewhere does not mean you have to be treated like a VIP.


And a new contender for the top idiot spot arises!!

Sorry for the name calling but really?

I run a 2 million dollar + a year business, and let me tell you, the guy who comes in and spends $3.50 for a pair of rental shoes and a game of bowling is JUST as frickin important to me as the Bride and Groom who have a 12k wedding in my banquet hall. They all get treated like VIP's.

I could give you a list 100 items long of WHY they are equally important, but anyone who took Business 101 in high school or college would already know....

Again sorry for the name calling, but geezus...

EDIT: Oh and just to make a point, one of my local LBS's treated me like crap when I first got into biking last year. I pinpointed the most likely reason down to the fact I told them I only had $600 to spend. Apparently they are really into the local guys who buy $5000 bikes.

Well sucks for them because I have since spent thousands more after my original purchase ($400 online) and since I run a local business, I know A LOT of people; all of whom have heard from me about my experience. Guess that $600 should have been a little more attractive to them...


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks pattongb. Glad someone said it.


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## junior1210 (Sep 9, 2011)

ckropp said:


> I see your join date is Feb 2012 to MTBR. Seems to me like you're getting into cycling on the wrong foot. Instead of complaining about the fact that guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and shoot the s**t with you all day, maybe you should just go for a ride and clear your head. The bike shop is there to sell you bike components. Maybe you should take a look at your behavior before you say "they wanted nothing to do with you."
> 
> PS $1000 is chump change to a bike shop. Just because you spend money somewhere does not mean you have to be treated like a VIP.


I'm inclined to say you're both right and wrong. Right in that those folks have a business to run and a lot of the time don't have time to BS all day even if they want to. You're also wrong though, in that some people have their mouth connected to their wallet, and the more they can talk the more they'll spend. This is a fact I know from giving customer service and the fact that I'm one of those people. The guys at one of my LBS aren't very talkative but they make the effort even though it's against their personalities and it's a big reason they are successful (in my opinion).

Last week I went into a shop for the first time and even though they were busy, two different employees chatted me up, asked various questions about what, where, how I ride, they asked about my shoes (5 10 Sam Hill's) and generally made me feel at home. Even though I found out they didn't have what I wanted in stock, I still bought a used set of pedals and walked out feeling good and knowing I now have a second LBS as a resource. While business is business and time is money, five minutes of conversation got that shop $10 and a new repeat customer who knows the power of word of mouth advertising.


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

Pimpride said:


> The best shops get as many people out riding as possible. People who actually ride their bike regularly tend to upgrade / replace and repair their bikes more, usually with the shop they ride with. Beginners will become intermediates then advanced riders by riding a lot. Shops need to be proactive getting local riders on trail. What better place to sell a custom Chris King wheelset than on trail after a grueling ride. ----> shop employee / owner, "do you know what will help with those climbs, plus spin up quicker coming out of curves?" ---> beginner/intermediate rider, "what?" ---> shop employee / owner "a new custom Chris King wheelset"..... The doctor / lawyer / customer wants to spend money... You got to make the sale.


this post :thumbsup:

I've got 2 LBS about 5 min from me... but I drive 30 min to get to MY LBS... it's the sister shop of one of the ones near me... but the guy that runs it makes the shop... i've seen him steer people to CL saying to give him a call and he'd look at it and let them know what he thought... what he had didn't fit her needs (mostly her pricepoint) but he knows that if he can get her riding she'd get hooked and be back for little things here and there... and a year down the road stop in to buy a new bike...

a family came in one day when I was at the shop... a few months back they'd come in to buy the young teen kid a bike... they wanted to get him more active and outdoors (and off the xbox)... at that point the kid had gotten hooked and everyone else in the family had since bought a bike...

the shop guy LOVES to get people riding... it shows both in how he treats his customers (and future customers ;-) and in how the shop is doing... they have grown a lot in the last few years (dispite the economy) and I attribute that to how he teaches people

anyone who's interested in cycling or looking at a bike I send them to him... yes it's 30 min away but I know he'll take care of them


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## CharleyGnarlyP290 (Apr 26, 2010)

Someone posted that $1000.00 is chump change? Really? That is one of the dumbest statements I have heard in a long time. Must be nice to refer to 1G as chump change. I do not have that luxury.
Here's the deal. If a salesperson (or parts person) doesn't like to deal with people, find a new job. It is the nature of the business to deal with people of all economic and knowledge ranges. 
And all of those little parts that some salespeople don't want to hassle with... that is where the money is. All of those small parts and accessories are what increase profit margins. Markup on a bike ain't much. Markup on the small parts, more so. Sell more small stuff, show more profit. Basic retail practice.
I guess that is why my LBS is great. A pair of grips, or a set of wheels, doesn't matter. They act like they care and want to get me what I need. 
Here's another deal. I have gone into the shop needing something pretty small, like cable ends, or some headset cups knocked out, whatever. I go in expecting to pay for parts and /or the service. So, salesdude comes out with a handful of cable ends, or my frame in one hand and cups in the other and says "Here ya go." "How much?" "Don't worry about it." Nice.
And here is the kicker: When it comes time for me to buy a part, you know, something a bit more substantial, where am I gonna go? Go to Jerknecks Bike Shop and get the part for $49.99 or go to Cooldudes Bike Shop and get it for $59.99? Guess. The people that care are going to get my business. And it is not solely because they hooked me up on a service that took them all of two minutes to perform that I was will to pay shop price for, or the nickle's worth of aluminum that I am going to crimp on the end of a cable. It is because they are trying to build a relationship with the customer. That wins customer loyalty.
And if they know my name... short of poking me in the eye with a rusty spoke, I will be a customer for life.


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

I have 4 LBS within ~15 minutes of my house. One of them, even though it would be on my way home from work every day, I never set foot in because their service did not impress back when I was a teenaged BMXer. The other one I just never go to (too many one way streets to bother with to get there). 

That leaves the two that I do go to:

Shop #1: When I bought my first new MTB back two years ago, I walked in and was checking out what they had in stock for about 20 minutes. The kid behind the counter (surfing the internet with his back turned to the door) didn't even notice I was there. I walked out and bought my bike from...

Shop #2: One man operation (sometimes his wife and he's hiring a wrench now) that had opened quasi-recently. I walked out that day with a bike (nothing uber-blingy). Have went back several times and spent a good chunk of money there already. The owner knows my name and greets me when I walk in even though I have yet to buy a carbon FS as of yet.

I still order online from time-to-time (my schedule and the LBS schedule make it tough to actually get in there and online prices really are hard to pass up sometimes) but I actually feel bad when I make my purchase at a shop other than #2. I bought a SS last fall from LBS #1 as it was a good deal (I went in for a tube of grease as LBS #2 was closed) but actually felt bad spending the money at that one. If it comes down to maintenance that I can't do, I would likely take it to #2 and pay than the free year of service at #1.

That, to me, is what good CS should accomplish. The shop I like isn't big at all and can't stock much but the service has kept me coming back. It's also convinced me to have my girlfriend buy her bike from that shop, my main riding buddy buy his parts and goodies from that shop, and a buddy we're trying to get into biking to get a bike from that shop. And it all started with an entry-level bike. :thumbsup:


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## Jon1 (Feb 20, 2012)

ckropp said:


> I see your join date is Feb 2012 to MTBR. Seems to me like you're getting into cycling on the wrong foot. Instead of complaining about the fact that guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and shoot the s**t with you all day, maybe you should just go for a ride and clear your head. The bike shop is there to sell you bike components. Maybe you should take a look at your behavior before you say "they wanted nothing to do with you."
> 
> PS $1000 is chump change to a bike shop. Just because you spend money somewhere does not mean you have to be treated like a VIP.


No, it's not chump change to a bike shop.

That $1000 initial purchase turns into multiple thousands of dollars fairly quickly from word of mouth, repeat purchases of accessories and repair work.

Building loyalty from great customer service is key in independent, locally owned businesses.


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## SuperSlow35th (Jul 22, 2011)

ckropp said:


> I see your join date is Feb 2012 to MTBR. Seems to me like you're getting into cycling on the wrong foot. Instead of complaining about the fact that guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and shoot the s**t with you all day, maybe you should just go for a ride and clear your head. The bike shop is there to sell you bike components. Maybe you should take a look at your behavior before you say "they wanted nothing to do with you."
> 
> PS $1000 is chump change to a bike shop. Just because you spend money somewhere does not mean you have to be treated like a VIP.


You sir, ar an idiot. Every customer should be treated like a VIP. Do you know why? Let me enlighten you. If im helpful to a customer spending $20 today hes going to be much more likely to come see me again in 3 weeks when he needs to spend $2000. It seems to me that you have the typical car salesmen mentalitity, knock them in the head this time and sell as much as possible because they might not come back. Whereas the correct mindset should be helpful and give them the best deal possible this time and they might come back. A happy customer is a returning customer, and return business makes you much more money than a one time big spender.

Ill take a second to brag about my two LBS's. I called into my LBS originally asking them what they had in the way of an entry level full suspension, every other LBS in the area had told me no less than $1400. The one i bought my bike from told me he had two large frame 2010 yukons left in stock, hed mark it down to $850 from the $1095 msrp. He also informed me the Giant road bikes were on sale for 10% off that week but if id come down and buy this one hed extend that to my bike. I went down and put mine in layaway. After seeing my new bike my wife got the itch and decided she wanted one. So we bought her one from the same LBS as well. We bought her an entry level HT and now shes decided she wants to upgrade. Guess what? We'll be going back to the same LBS.

The lesson here? Shop A told me $1400. That would have been a one time $1400 sale.

Shop B told me $850 -10%, I spent an additional $75 that day on gear. I spent another additional $375 on a bike and $65 on gear for my wife. Now were looking at spending another $1000 on another bike for my wife. How much does that add up to? $2280.

Which shop is better off in the long run? Not to mention any of my friends that have looked for bikes since then, ive directed them to my LBS. And three of them have bought so far.


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## ckropp (Jun 20, 2007)

pattongb said:


> And a new contender for the top idiot spot arises!!
> 
> Sorry for the name calling but really?
> 
> ...


Call me a misanthrope, but when I walk into a shop (or any business for that matter), I don't need to be chatted up. I enjoy other hobbies outside of cycling and when I go into whatever local business, I buy my equipment and leave. I focused on that one post because he wanted the guys at his LBS to stand there and talk to him about bikes for while when he's in there "picking up the quick spoke." People in shops are busy and have other things to do then just talk with him all day.

And speaking of idiots, way to take VIP in the most literal sense. I obviously used that acronym as hyperbole to make my point. But, I'll accept your lack of awareness. I'm sure all those fumes from spraying down the rental shoes has clouded your mind.


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## ckropp (Jun 20, 2007)

SuperSlow35th said:


> You sir, ar an idiot. Every customer should be treated like a VIP. Do you know why? Let me enlighten you. If im helpful to a customer spending $20 today hes going to be much more likely to come see me again in 3 weeks when he needs to spend $2000. It seems to me that you have the typical car salesmen mentalitity, knock them in the head this time and sell as much as possible because they might not come back. Whereas the correct mindset should be helpful and give them the best deal possible this time and they might come back. A happy customer is a returning customer, and return business makes you much more money than a one time big spender.
> 
> Ill take a second to brag about my two LBS's. I called into my LBS originally asking them what they had in the way of an entry level full suspension, every other LBS in the area had told me no less than $1400. The one i bought my bike from told me he had two large frame 2010 yukons left in stock, hed mark it down to $850 from the $1095 msrp. He also informed me the Giant road bikes were on sale for 10% off that week but if id come down and buy this one hed extend that to my bike. I went down and put mine in layaway. After seeing my new bike my wife got the itch and decided she wanted one. So we bought her one from the same LBS as well. We bought her an entry level HT and now shes decided she wants to upgrade. Guess what? We'll be going back to the same LBS.
> 
> ...


You sir, ARE an idiot because you missed my whole point (and cant spell are). I wasn't saying shops shouldn't treat you right. I was saying that just because the guys at the local shop don't want to stand there and chit chat about bikes with you doesn't make them a bad shop. Some people like bulls**t small talk, others don't. Unfortunately for the sport, there are people who value talking much more than riding, thus the complaints that bike shops seem snobby. Anyway, your brilliant example of the $20 and $2000 isn't breaking any new ground. Everyone knows that.....idiot.


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## Gritter (Dec 21, 2010)

ckropp said:


> You sir, ARE an idiot because you missed my whole point (and cant spell are). ......idiot.


Dude. It was obviously a typo. People who can't spell, "are" spell it O-U-R. He just mis-typed and forgot the "e" at the end. What a weak attempt at trying to show him up.

You said $1000 is chump change, which shows us all that you are the chump, and you'll never change. You should really STFU and quit posting.


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## ckropp (Jun 20, 2007)

Gritter said:


> You said $1000 is chump change, which shows us all that you are the chump, and you'll never change.


I said chump change to a bike shop, not the individual. Of course $1000 is a lot of money to anyone. Womp womp.


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## KVW (Aug 11, 2011)

Ever see clerks? LBS is a retail job. Rarely do you find a happy employee at a retail job. If you want to have a pleasant experience at a bike shop, you need to keep that in mind before entering. Some shops are hopeless but once you find one that has potential, stick with it and if you ever buy locally, try to give them the opportunity to sell you a product/service to give them that repeat business.

That said I love my LBS and continue to go there as long as most of the key employees group of employees remain there. For anyone local to my location, that's Performance Bike in Campbell, CA. Note, if you want to talk shop with the mechanics, don't go during peak hours during bike season. Ease up to it - it's best to make your visits short and sweet in the beginning. Eventually they'll start to recognize you and you'll establish some familiarity. Soon enough you'll be treated like a VIP customer even if your pockets isn't as deep as the next guy's. Although that kind of attitude may not apply at the smaller bike shops who are struggling to keep their shops open. It's nice to go to a shop that isn't struggling so there's no pressure from the employees to buy.


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## BungSolo (Jan 19, 2012)

xenracer said:


> If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop.. ya wanna know why we can be rude.. I'll break it down for you (note: I have been in this industry for 10+ plus and not a 16yo kid behind the counter.........blahblahblahblahblahb


wow. am i ever glad i dont have to go into a store and deal with a ******** like you! :thumbsup:


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

Ahhhh, internet forums.

It's reassuring to see they're all the same.

I'm new to the Mtbr thing, but have spent many hours on forums for rc aircraft. 

The same arguments are hashed and rehashed about LHS or Local Hobby Shops.

And of course, the same fights, insults, and retaliatory comments.

The more things change...


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## Waltah (Aug 5, 2011)

i have yet to have a negative LBS experience. we just moved to a new place recently and im actually going to check out the LBS here today. hoping for a good experience.need to pick up some stans and other assorted crap.


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## NC-Biker (Dec 2, 2010)

Glad I don't have this problem. The local LBS does right by me. The only problem I have is that I can't get away from the Wife,she just wants to tell me about every trail she has ridden and the ones I should try.


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## NismoGriff (May 15, 2011)

I picked up my Felt Nine Sport from the LBS about 2 weeks ago. I went for a ride the other day and when I got home to pull the bike off the rack, the front tire was flat. I pulled it apart and it appeared that the seam on the tube just let go. The next morning, even though I didn't see anything that caused the damage, I took the bike up to the shop to let them look and make sure I wasn't missing anything. They said, nope, nothing wrong that we can see. They gave me a new tube and installed it and put the wheel back on the bike, NO CHARGE! I bought a spare and went for a ride later that afternoon. I was about 1/2 mile into the ride and got a thorn in the very same wheel :madman: I swapped tubes and about 1.5 miles later my buddy's 12 y/o dept store bike launched the derailleur into the back wheel. Back to the bike shop. New tube and patch kit for me and new derailleur, wheel trued and some other basic adjustments for like $30 in labor for him. Said it would be ready the next day. (it was about an hour and a half b4 closing). I was a little skeptical about them at first, but I'm liking them more with each visit.


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## crazyengineer (Apr 17, 2012)

I've got a couple local bike shops near my college campus. There are 2 main ones. One know what they are doing and are generally pretty helpful to me, whether I am looking for advice, getting repairs, replacing/upgrading parts, etc.... The other...not so much. SOme of the guys there couldn't do more than put grips on. I remember talking to one of them in there telling about one day someone bringing in a hydraulic brake bike that needed to be bled after the adjustments, he didnt know how to do it and just looked it up on youtube instead of asking someone in the shop (more experienced) to show him. I understand doing that with your own bike, but not with a customers. With a customers, you should have someone be there next to you guiding you in how to do it, but That is jut my opinion


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## scorchedearth (Aug 30, 2011)

I tested a bike at an LBS in the area recently that was a little strange. For some reason, the build of the bike they were trying to sell me didn't match up to what was on the manufacturer's website. Combined with the treatment I got at the shop, I decided that they would not receive my business.

Luckily, I have a lot of options in my area so I can vote with my feet. The ones who want my business will get it.


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## Waltah (Aug 5, 2011)

checked out my lbs but the gentleman was busy and i had my 2yr old with me so no time to chat. ill swing by again when i have time to chit chat with them. they are EXTREMELY overpriced though. more so than any LBS ive been in.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Then don't go back.


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

xenracer said:


> If I can interject.. I work on the other side of the counter at a motorcycle shop.. ya wanna know why we can be rude.. I'll break it down for you (note: I have been in this industry for 10+ plus and not a 16yo kid behind the counter..)
> 
> 1. know your ****.. don't come into the store and I ask you want you have and you say you don't know.. we are not here to spoon feed you.. I ask for year make and model every time.. parts and part numbers are not all the same or "universal". Learn what you have.. I'm not asking you what kind of toaster you have.. you should know what kind of car you have.. what kind of bike you have.. what kind of "toy"; you have (ie rc cars, airsoft replica, paintball marker, etc) especially when you walk into the store..
> 
> ...


Probably the last words of many brick and mortor stores....


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

I can't blame you for a number of reasons:

1. Bikes are no where near tough to work on. With a few tools and Internet access, you can do the majority of what a "bicycle mechanic" can do. 

2. LBS services are always under scrutiny... they are infamous for poor customer service. If they do not treat you right, don't go back, complain, move on. This is America.

3. Why buy anything local? Really an LBS is a showroom in modern times. Your smartphone is your commerce portal. If you can find what you see cheaper elsewhere, buy it elsewhere.

4. If you plan ahead, there is no reason you can't support yourself. Especially if you have a lot of bike friends. Everyone knows a ticket someone else doesnt. 

My friends and I all bought tools and we share them all. We all have spare parts and share those as well.


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## ckropp (Jun 20, 2007)

OmaHaq said:


> I can't blame you for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. Bikes are no where near tough to work on. With a few tools and Internet access, you can do the majority of what a "bicycle mechanic" can do.
> 
> ...


You support local business because it's the backbone of this country. Two of every three jobs is created by local business. Also, I can't wait til you have to rebuild a wheel or chase a bottom bracket shell. Let's see how well that goes without any training


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

*I'm confused*

I'm new to this "rep" thing.

I got a red one today that linked back to this thread...

The comment section said "tool".

This isn't really helpful. I didn't think I mentioned a shovel, or a wrench. Was I supposed to? If you could be more descriptive, I can do better in the future...

Also, if you had a way of leaving your name, or contact info, I could address you directly, to better satisfy your internet forum needs.

:thumbsup:


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

ckropp said:


> You support local business because it's the backbone of this country. Two of every three jobs is created by local business. Also, I can't wait til you have to rebuild a wheel or chase a bottom bracket shell. Let's see how well that goes without any training


This exactly.

I work at a shop and the countless amount of people that come in with bikes they bought online and then can't figure out what they did wrong in putting it together is disturbing. Then they get pissed when I say it's $80 for me to assemble it correctly; well guess what assembly is FREE if you buy it from us and we even give you a free tune up when everything is stretched out after some miles.

We're now going to start charging more for parts brought in that are asked to be installed vs buying from us.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Flying-Monkey said:


> I'm new to this "rep" thing.
> 
> I got a red one today that linked back to this thread...
> 
> ...


Take it like a man. We all get the reds.


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## Slozomby (Mar 22, 2012)

sometimes its just an idiot they have at the shop. the closest shop to me has 1 guy i refuse to deal with. the rest seem pretty decent. i have no problem telling him i want someone else to help. 

i dont mind paying a little extra to help the local shops. but i do expect them to be courteous and helpful regardless of wether its a stem or a new bike. if you blow me off for the stem i can guarantee you wont be seeing me when its time for a new bike. and yes that might mean installing a couple of different ones while i figure out wether i like the 30deg 80mm or the 40deg 60mm. if you dont like that idea you should get out of the customer service industry. this is not to say you should drop whatever customer your working with to help me, but a "hi i'll be with you when im done with these folks" goes a long way.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

car bone said:


> Take it like a man. We all get the reds.


 I went to your profile figuring you must be the goodwill ambassador but I noticed you didn't have any friends yet so I sent you a yfriend request.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Everybody hates me here. Back in the good old days I had a green laser sword rep longer than the Eiffel tower but recently the rep fairy came and stole it back. I'll be starting the rep bailout thread pretty soon.


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## kapton (Apr 15, 2012)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> We're now going to start charging more for parts brought in that are asked to be installed vs buying from us.


This will likely blow up in your face. Better to offer incentives to actually purchase in your store. Surcharges will probably result in poor reviews and customers looking elsewhere for service.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

kapton said:


> This will likely blow up in your face. Better to offer incentives to actually purchase in your store. Surcharges will probably result in poor reviews and customers looking elsewhere for service.


Our incentives are a discounted labor charge for buying from us and our awesome expertise.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

An interesting turn this thread has taken.

As someone who has spent a good amount of time on both sides of the retail counter this conversation direction is one I've had with coworkers and friends.

It always seems to break down between the retailer vs customer.

The customer doesn't want to pay the shop a penny more than the internet price, they expect all services to be free, even if they only spent a dollar in the shop, once, a year ago, after talking to an employee for several hours.

But on the flip side, you get the retailers, who think that the customers should be unendingly grateful that there's a shop for them to buy from. They get angry when customers come in, ask for something, and are told that it will have to be ordered, then the customer has the nerve to say "well, I can order it myself online."

What most customers don't realize, is the higher price they're paying, is for the "convenience" expense. Not having to wait a week or more for the mail to deliver whatever they wanted. They're paying the shop owners, and employees salaries, as well as the light bill, bank fees, stationary supplies, water bill, toilet paper, etc, with the little profit the business owner is able to make on whatever they sell. The smaller the business, the closer to the bone this cuts. If you like being able to try it before you buy it, and you go fondle the products at your local shop of choice, (unless it's just grossly overpriced) don't be a jerk and then go buy it online. The fact that the shop had the items available to you, to help you save yourself from a costly mistake should play a factor in your decision of where you'll buy said item.

That being said...

What the business owners don't seem to understand, is that the customer isn't obligated to shop with you, or be grateful you're there, just because you decided that you wanted to open a specialty shop. Just having a location, and some product, and maybe some services isn't enough these days. The internet has killed that dead. As a business owner, you have to remember that you're making a living off from someone's "extra" money. That (in a perfect world) bills, food, housing, etc come first, and what is left over is spread thin for the costs of recreation. So of course the customer is going to base a lot of their decisions on how much something costs. Even if they're penny wise, and pound stupid buying something for a few bucks less online, then paying 30 bucks more in shipping. The shop owners need to get creative in drawing people to their stores, building customer loyalty, and really earning those dollars they're fighting the internet for.

ok I feel better.  [/rant]


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## junior1210 (Sep 9, 2011)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> This exactly.
> 
> I work at a shop and the countless amount of people that come in with bikes they bought online and then can't figure out what they did wrong in putting it together is disturbing. Then they get pissed when I say it's $80 for me to assemble it correctly; well guess what assembly is FREE if you buy it from us and we even give you a free tune up when everything is stretched out after some miles.
> 
> We're now going to start charging more for parts brought in that are asked to be installed vs buying from us.


As a customer I don't see anything wrong with that. I bought my bike online knowing going in that I wouldn't have the free LBS back-up, so as to lower the up-front cost as well as force myself to learn more wrenching than just changing tires (I know myself  ). While I admit that I wish all shops would install parts and do tune ups for free, I also wish water fountains dispensed Johnny Walker Blue Label, banks would give away money, etc, etc, etc. Anybody going into any shop, bike or otherwise, should remember that it is a business first. They might want to make the world a better place, but they also want to eat regularly and have a roof over their heads.

I also think the extra charge for bringing in parts if fine since you can't be sure that the part is correct till you're elbow deep in the fix, and if it isn't correct then you have to contact the customer to find out what they want to do, and until you have an answer you have a half broke bike taking up space. If they bought the part from you, if it's the wrong part then you can just swap for the right one and fulfill the customers intent. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to, but when you make a choice there will be a cost no matter which way you go, and it's rarely fair.


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## kapton (Apr 15, 2012)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> Our incentives are a discounted labor charge for buying from us and our awesome expertise.


I would focus more on advertising this fact rather than instituting a surcharge that will likely alienate customers.


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## kapton (Apr 15, 2012)

Flying-Monkey said:


> An interesting turn this thread has taken.
> 
> As someone who has spent a good amount of time on both sides of the retail counter this conversation direction is one I've had with coworkers and friends.
> 
> ...


There really isn't much of a "convenience" to purchasing from an LBS these days. As a consumer, you're likely to pay more for less convenience by driving to the LBS, paying higher prices and waiting longer for a part to come in. I can go online and order almost everything under the sun and get it faster and cheaper these days. For instance, today I went to my LBS looking for a part. They of course did not have it in stock, but were happy to order it for me with an expected delivery date of a week from today. On top of this, their price was higher than most places across the net. I still purchased the product from them, as they have been good to me and offer significant discounts to me for labor and services.

Brick and mortar stores are going to have to learn that they no longer have the same past advantages over the large distributors. In terms of straight retail, they offer no benefit whatsoever over the internet. Guaranteed same day/next day shipping with many retailers means it's much more convenient to order something today with the knowledge that it will be here tomorrow or the next day than to drive to my LBS without knowing whether the specific part I'm looking for is even in stock.

Because they simply can't win the retail game, their focus needs to be elsewhere. Namely, they need to provide things that can't be offered from an online retailer. They need to focus heavily on service. Building community should be part of their business model. A customer should *want* to go to the LBS. If the only draw to any LBS is the products they offer, they probably won't last very long.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

kapton said:


> Because they simply can't win the retail game, their focus needs to be elsewhere. Namely, they need to provide things that can't be offered from an online retailer. They need to focus heavily on service. Building community should be part of their business model. A customer should *want* to go to the LBS. If the only draw to any LBS is the products they offer, they probably won't last very long.


While I wasn't totally on board with your other comments, being fortunate to have a great bike shop just down the road, I thought your last paragraph was spot on. This applies to many other specialty shops, not just for cycling.

Shops wanting to draw customers in, should sponsor events, participate in local cycling clubs, host group rides, provide clinics on how to improve riding skills, or "build" a better bike. It seems these things would help encourage more customers to build a bond with the shop, and thus attract more business. More importantly, loyal repeat business.

The guys down the road from me have a weekly ride gathering. They were good enough to invite me along, although, as it pained me to find out, my abilities, and stamina were not up to the group's level. The mechanic there was great, let me in the workshop area, and showed me some tips on how to tune my bike. Sure, I could have watched a youtube video about this, but the hands on assistance was far superior, in my opinion. When I buy my next bike, I plan to get it from them.


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## kapton (Apr 15, 2012)

Flying-Monkey said:


> While I wasn't totally on board with your other comments, being fortunate to have a great bike shop just down the road, I thought your last paragraph was spot on. This applies to many other specialty shops, not just for cycling.
> 
> Shops wanting to draw customers in, should sponsor events, participate in local cycling clubs, host group rides, provide clinics on how to improve riding skills, or "build" a better bike. It seems these things would help encourage more customers to build a bond with the shop, and thus attract more business. More importantly, loyal repeat business.


Agreed. Prior to relocating for work last year, I used to regularly shop at a motorcycle dealership/ retail store/ repair shop near my home. Much like an LBS, they sold a niche product and could not compete with the online distributors in terms of retail. However, they created an environment that made the customer happy to be there. They offered maintenance seminars, riding classes and group activities. They even converted a portion of their store into a lounge where individuals were free to come in, relax, watch motorcycle races, or play motorcycle video games. Instead of a retail store, they created a motorcycle community hang-out spot where you could also order parts or have your bike serviced. As a result of their focus on the consumer, they ended up with a group of loyal riders who came in their store often and rode their bikes more, which resulted in increased sales. Customers were also happy to recommend their store to other riders, which also increased sales. I think this type of business model would work well with a lot of LBSs out there.


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## Flying-Monkey (Apr 15, 2012)

kapton said:


> As a result of their focus on the consumer, they ended up with a group of loyal riders who came in their store often and rode their bikes more, which resulted in increased sales. Customers were also happy to recommend their store to other riders, which also increased sales. I think this type of business model would work well with a lot of LBSs out there.


Yup, I've seen this in my other hobbies. Customers are still going to buy stuff, where do you want them going? To your shop, or to the internet? If you can make it a social gathering, you'll get the customers, I think folks are getting burned out on all of the internet social media, and are craving the real thing.


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

ckropp said:


> You support local business because it's the backbone of this country. Two of every three jobs is created by local business. Also, I can't wait til you have to rebuild a wheel or chase a bottom bracket shell. Let's see how well that goes without any training


I've done both... it worked out fine. Chasing threads is mindless and with BB30 it's a non-issue. Building wheels is tricky, but after you do a few, it isn't bad.

Bikes are not tough to work on. It's common sense + a few tools.

There is no reason to support any business (local or not) that does not give you service or a reasonable deal. Supply and demand... if they want to compete in the market, they need to step up.

:thumbsup:


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Ilikebmx999 said:


> This exactly.
> 
> I work at a shop and the countless amount of people that come in with bikes they bought online and then can't figure out what they did wrong in putting it together is disturbing. Then they get pissed when I say it's $80 for me to assemble it correctly; well guess what assembly is FREE if you buy it from us and we even give you a free tune up when everything is stretched out after some miles.
> 
> We're now going to start charging more for parts brought in that are asked to be installed vs buying from us.


Ok, this is bad logic... you aren't selling anything so you are going to mark things up? In a bike shop the #1 money maker is labor. Most places LOVE to get bikes that are poorly maintained. It's instant labor $$.


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## raven1911 (Jul 14, 2011)

For me I wouldn;'t go to my local LBS either if they were rude and inconsiderate. A business should thrive off giving good service and providing for the customer.


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

kapton said:


> Agreed. Prior to relocating for work last year, I used to regularly shop at a motorcycle dealership/ retail store/ repair shop near my home. Much like an LBS, they sold a niche product and could not compete with the online distributors in terms of retail. However, they created an environment that made the customer happy to be there. They offered maintenance seminars, riding classes and group activities. They even converted a portion of their store into a lounge where individuals were free to come in, relax, watch motorcycle races, or play motorcycle video games. Instead of a retail store, they created a motorcycle community hang-out spot where you could also order parts or have your bike serviced. As a result of their focus on the consumer, they ended up with a group of loyal riders who came in their store often and rode their bikes more, which resulted in increased sales. Customers were also happy to recommend their store to other riders, which also increased sales. I think this type of business model would work well with a lot of LBSs out there.


This is exactly what the most popular LBS in the city has done over the past 24mo. It's a community gathering place. Events twice a week (yoga, sprints, coffee runs, beer cruise) and they have gradually built up a very loyal customer base. They do good work, their service is solid, they are BRP re-sellers so they have a nice selection... it's thee model in this time of Interent commerce portals.


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## AlexDeLarge (Oct 5, 2009)

One of my LBSs is a 1-stop outdoor shop, selling camping, climbing, hiking, skiiing gear, as well as kayaks and canoes. Sometimes when I go in to the bike section for a part the regular bike guys are out to lunch or on a test ride, so an employee from another of the store's section fills in to keep an eye on the stuff. I wouldn't expect any of the subs to know as much as the regular bike guys, so I'll wait around until they return.


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