# Post your lightweight Internally Geared Hub (IGH) bike!



## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Curious to see what is the acceptance out there about IGH bikes for performance (XC, road, triathlons??). I little background: I've been riding bikes for over 25 years, always on traditional cassette/RD setup. For the first time ever I had the casualty to own a IGH cargo bike with a Alfine 8 speed Di2! Owning the bike not only gave me the chance to try the hub, but also to ride everyday noticing how the hub perform on a variety of conditions. I have about 5 weeks on the bike now. 

.....So, I AM SOLD! 

The experience is simply amazing! shifting is lighting fast, accurate and protected from the elements. Now...as for popularity, I understand why cassettes/RD prevail, mainly because they are lighter, BUT, what if we can see what weightweenie minded people are doing out there with IGH hubs? ok...people can also say there is also added resistance during pedal strokes...now from experience, I didn't notice any resistance that can be relevante, plus, the efficiency during shifting also means the rider is applying more power output since there is very little brake between gears. 

Personally, after trying the hub I want to convert my other two bikes with IGH, I have a FS XC bike that I use for racing, its light around 21lbs...but to be honest, if I am adding weight to the bike to increase reliability, I'd take that on a heart beat. Alfine 11 speed is the goal. 

So, I am very curious to see possible lightweight IGH bikes out there. 

POST YOUR LIGHTWEIGHT IGH BIKE! DON'T FORGET THE WEIGHT OF COURSE!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I suppose bottom-bracket-located gearing is also in play here, like the Pinion? I'm keen to see how this technology advances.

Cost comes up as a comparative factor with these setups, but in the WW world there is some crazy spending on traditional drivetrains, so it's probably not as costly in this context.

While we're obviously talking about weight here, I also want to talk about usability. For example, this review from Pinkbike suggests that you can't really shift a Pinion-based system under load, which is a flag for me:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/should-the-derailleur-die-zerodes-gearbox-equipped-taniwha-review.html

Curious to hear other experiences, and obviously any WW builds.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Of course, on the BB is also welcome to join...what is the abbreviation for that? should it be IGBB?

So...cost, reason why I mentioned on the Hub in first place. I guess I should say the Alfine Hub is the most affordable (to date) way to access the technology. Rohloff or Pinion are not on my Radar as they cost at least 3 times more, plus the Pinion cannot be retrofitted to regular bikes. I don't want to ditch my FS XC rig...I really love with I have and is already very light meeting my goals.

Also, weight: I suspect that Pinion is a bit heavier compared to Alfine and Rohloff.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Pinion is nearly 2kg in weight . You need a specifically made frame for it to fit . Those two alone put me off but I still like the design . Derailleur systems for me will always be a winner for ww but internal gearing I hear is the future .


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

For me I would start by finding a company that could make the gears out of titanium, aluminium casing bolts, titanium axle, ceramic bearings and titanium axle nuts . From there I would need to own one and look further .


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Seb K said:


> For me I would start by finding a company that could make the gears out of titanium, aluminium casing bolts, titanium axle, ceramic bearings and titanium axle nuts . From there I would need to own one and look further .


Totally agree! It is possible to shave at least half the weight on those hubs by using prime materials...but than the Alfine wouldn't be the affordable $500, but something like $3000 instead.

Right now, I'm still onboard with the weight penalty, after trying it I can definitely say that.

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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

I hear the Zerode Taniwha weighs 33lbs...I have two Rohloffs....not light weight...one hardtail CX 22lbs and FS 27lbs...absolutely love the Rohloffs. Able to shift 4-5 gears with a flick of the wrist...


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

ladljon said:


> I hear the Zerode Taniwha weighs 33lbs...I have two Rohloffs....not light weight...one hardtail CX 23lbs and FS 27lbs...absolutely love the Rohloffs. Able to shift 4-5 gears with a flick of the wrist...


Nice rig! Looks like it can survive the holocaust, all Ti, no derailleur hanging....good weight considering! Have you tried the Alfine, and if so....any major difference in shifting quality? As fast?

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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

I had a Alfine 8 on a commuter bike....Shifting was ok, not as fast. Didn't want to shift in temp below 10 F...gave that bike to my daughter.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

ladljon said:


> I had a Alfine 8 on a commuter bike....Shifting was ok, not as fast. Didn't want to shift in temp below 10 F...gave that bike to my daughter.


Temperature affects shifting because of oil viscosity? Would it be the same with the Rohloff than?

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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

The cold temps didn't effect the Rohloff like it did the Alfine. I would just keep the Alfine in one gear until the hub warmed some to shift. But how many peeps ride below 10F temps. I had to commute in cold weather at 2am...


andrepsz said:


> Temperature affects shifting because of oil viscosity? Would it be the same with the Rohloff than?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

ladljon said:


> I had a Alfine 8 on a commuter bike....Shifting was ok, not as fast.


This is a bonus comment btw, I thought the Alfine was fast already!

Well, my cargo bike came with Di2 shifting along with the Alfine so that's my reference. Is it still fast with mech shifting?

My plan is to strip the Di2 from the cargo bike (overkill to have Di2 on cargo/commute) and install on my FS XC bike with a Alfine 11....I'll just keep it mech shifting on the cargo.

...also, from what I found on other forums, it looks like the Di2 help solving some issue with cable pull? True?

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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Did you take a look at the Kindernay IGH?

Products - Kindernay


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

lRaphl said:


> Did you take a look at the Kindernay IGH?
> 
> Products - Kindernay


That's very interesting.

I wonder why they opt for 14 gears? I can only assume 11 would be lighter, and cover the range most riders would need?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

lRaphl said:


> Did you take a look at the Kindernay IGH?
> 
> Products - Kindernay


Yes I did, already did some digging on their website, it's not even for sale and it's also very very expensive.

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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Got in the mail today! Man...the Straight pull version looks so slick! Too bad I couldn't find a straight pull for the 11 speed version. I'm wondering if I could use this shell with 11speed guts for my FS XC bike! That would look very nice. 









Combined with RT99 140mm rotor, I can see the word 'Reliable' all over this picture....but I could of course put a Ashima Worlds lightest to stick with the WW mind.










Too bad my racing rig will have the boring J bend version look. 

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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> Got in the mail today! Man...the Straight pull version looks so slick! Too bad I couldn't find a straight pull for the 11 speed version. I'm wondering if I could use this shell with 11speed guts for my FS XC bike! [/IMG]
> 
> Too bad my racing rig will have the boring J bend version look.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Are you really thinking to race this? If so you must love taking on an handicap!


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

Built up my Ritchey P-29er to a retro build of the P-23 of the 90's. Restrayed Reba, polished crown, ritchey classic cockpit, flite to saddle, rohloff hub, middleburn cranks, Xtr brakes.










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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> Are you really thinking to race this? If so you must love taking on an handicap!


Actually, I was born missing my right leg below the knee, that puts me as the Handicap...that could probably take you down! ?

Joke I side (I just had to say it!) ...I do want to try the hub on racing yes...I'm very intrigued since I'm new to the tech. Could be a bad or good experience, just trying to find out.

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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Boosted GP said:


> Built up my Ritchey P-29er to a retro build of the P-23 of the 90's. Restrayed Reba, polished crown, ritchey classic cockpit, flite to saddle, rohloff hub, middleburn cranks, Xtr brakes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow thanks for sharing! Sure is exciting to plan a build like this from scratch, hand picking all the parts to follow the 90's goal....very cool!

I am not expecting to be a light build considering the steel frame and the absence of carbon parts...but do you mind sharing the weight? and how it rides? do you feel that the Rohloff hub could handle a marathon race?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Found some feedback from 2009: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/xc-racing-igh-572263.html


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

...and there is a 20lbs (without pedals) Cannondale Flash with IGH hub out there, source:
The Monkey Lab: Ultralight, Rohloff-Equipped Cannondale Flash Mountain Bike

Interesting comment from the article, my same exact feeling:

'This customer purchased a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 from us last summer for his tandem and fell in love with its shifting performance. So, when replacing his mtb this spring, a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 was his preferred drive train for the new bike. We built up the wheels and helped troubleshoot a few installation complications.'


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

andrepsz said:


> Wow thanks for sharing! Sure is exciting to plan a build like this from scratch, hand picking all the parts to follow the 90's goal....very cool!
> 
> I am not expecting to be a light build considering the steel frame and the absence of carbon parts...but do you mind sharing the weight? and how it rides? do you feel that the Rohloff hub could handle a marathon race?












Bike wasn't built with weight in mind, but rather as a modern version of a 90's Leader.

I have also built a GT Xizang in retro form.

Thompson cockpit, full xtr, Lynskey Ti bar










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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Boosted GP said:


> Bike wasn't built with weight in mind, but rather as a modern version of a 90's Leader.
> 
> I have also built a GT Xizang in retro form.
> 
> ...


Hard to say wish one is nicer! 

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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Boosted GP said:


> Bike wasn't built with weight in mind, but rather as a modern version of a 90's Leader.


Guys, beautiful bike ... but 12.83 Kg/28.3 pounds for a hardtail ... let's be real weightweenies: what is the real weight penalty for a Rohloff, it cannot be "only" two pounds. Photos, please!


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> Guys, beautiful bike ... but 12.83 Kg/28.3 pounds for a hardtail ... let's be real weightweenies: what is the real weight penalty for a Rohloff, it cannot be "only" two pounds. Photos, please!


Possibilities are getting lighter! found this C'dale at 8850g (19.5lbs) with Rohloff.
My cannondale taurine rohloff 8.850 KG 29/04/09 - Weight Weenies


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## Boosted GP (Mar 10, 2007)

Davide said:


> Guys, beautiful bike ... but 12.83 Kg/28.3 pounds for a hardtail ... let's be real weightweenies: what is the real weight penalty for a Rohloff, it cannot be "only" two pounds. Photos, please!


Roloff is 990gr heavier than full xtr.

But remember Tyres are heavy, ritchey classic stuff isn't light either and nor is the middleburn cranks.

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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

A Rohloff hub weighs 1700 grams=3.7lbs...526% gear ratio range. With 13.6% between gears, and I love every ounce. Where can I find gear ratios for a 30 X 10-50? Geez...never mind...figured it out...XX1 weighs 1450gr and cost $1400 and XO1 weighs 1500gr, both excluding the BB. The 10X50 has a 500% gear ratio. With gear jumps 2-2-2-2-2-3-3-4-4-4-6-8. Yes, there is a bit of a weight penalty, but I haven't had to buy a rear derailleur, in the last 8yrs...


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

ladljon said:


> A Rohloff hub weighs 1700 grams=3.7lbs...526% gear ratio range. With 13.6% between gears, and I love every ounce. Where can I find gear ratios for a 30 X 10-50? Geez...never mind...figured it out...XX1 weighs 1450gr and cost $1400 and XO1 weighs 1500gr, both excluding the BB. The 10X50 has a 500% gear ratio. With gear jumps 2-2-2-2-2-3-3-4-4-4-6-8. Yes, there is a bit of a weight penalty, but I haven't had to buy a rear derailleur, in the last 8yrs...


I am not sure how you get to a 1450 grams figure for SRAM XX1: my drive train is *642* grams (310 for 1048 cassette, 105 for I-Spec II XTR shifter, 222 XTR derailleur), SRAM 30 grams heavier.

The Rohloff weight including shifter/rear sprocket etc is *1921* grams

The Alfine is *2041* grams.

Add 100 grams for the extra cable/housing needed by the Roholoff and we are at 1.3 Kg and change, slightly more than 3 pounds difference ... not just a bit of weight penalty!  :eekster:

Source http://www.bikestation.fi/info/en/brands/rohloff/speedhub/weight/


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> My drive train is *642* grams (310 for 1048 cassette, 105 for I-Spec II XTR shifter, 222 XTR derailleur).
> 
> The Rohloff weight including shifter/rear sprocket etc is *1921* grams
> 
> ...


How about Carbon gates instead of chain? Can save around 200g or more. 1 watt penalty to operate over chain...but for off road I'd say 1 watt is irrelevant.

If the belt drive really saves around 200g, that c'dale I posted above would drop to 8650g (19.06lbs) very respectable!

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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> How about Carbon gates instead of chain? Can save around 200g or more. 1 watt penalty to operate over chain...but for off road I'd say 1 watt is irrelevant.
> 
> If the belt drive really saves around 200g, that c'dale I posted above would drop to 8650g (19.06lbs) very respectable!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Not so sure about the 200 grams weight gain (a chain does not weight 300 grams plus) and I am not sure you can go below 48 chain ring with the system. But it is another one of those innovations that by now should be more widespread if it gave any advantage. Instead you really only see it on city bikes.

For both, belt drive and Roholoff, the issue of efficiency is a concern and it would be nice to see some data about that ... not so hard to measure. But as it stands now, frankly the only place where I see a Roholoff making sense is on a e-bike ...

As for weight, you can of course start from a 6 pounds bike, install a Roholoff and obtain a very good 9 pounds bike ... you still gained 3 pounds in a blink :madman:


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> Not so sure about the 200 grams weight gain (a chain does not weight 300 grams plus) and I am not sure you can go below 48 chain ring with the system. But it is another one of those innovations that by now should be more widespread if it gave any advantage. Instead you really only see it on city bikes.
> 
> For both, belt drive and Roholoff, the issue of efficiency is a concern and it would be nice to see some data about that ... not so hard to measure. But as it stands now, frankly the only place where I see a Roholoff making sense is on a e-bike ...
> 
> As for weight, you can of course start from a 6 pounds bike, install a Roholoff and obtain a very good 9 pounds bike ... you still gained 3 pounds in a blink :madman:


I think is also valid to mention; there's the professional racer and the recreational racer. For pros, makes even sense to use $1000 ceramic coated RD pulley set...because these guys are fighting for fraction of seconds and can't afford to have lack of efficiency on their drive train.

The recreational racer, and I suspect involved pretty much everyone on this forum and myself ...mostly race to enjoy the lifestyle and like to have a nice bike because life is too short.

In other words, is it really a problem if I loose a couple of seconds on a marathon race because my IGH drivetrain drags more than a conventional cassette/RD? I had a chance to ride the IGH for about 4 weeks non stop, went on a cassette/RD ride after all that time...it felt antiquated!

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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> ...
> In other words, is it really a problem if I loose a couple of seconds on a marathon race because my IGH drivetrain drags more than a conventional cassette/RD? I had a chance to ride the IGH for about 4 weeks non stop, went on a cassette/RD ride after all that time...it felt antiquated!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Of course not ... but I really doubt that I would ever feel that my seamless-shifting-600 grams XTR drivetrain will ever feel antiquated! The other way around maybe!


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> Of course not ... but I really doubt that I would ever feel that my seamless-shifting-600 grams XTR drivetrain will ever feel antiquated! The other way around maybe!


I know I know..'antiquated' is a harsh word...I am calling my own beloved FS bike antiquated, its just what I feel. Have you tried a IGH before?


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

andrepsz said:


> I know I know..'antiquated' is a harsh word...I am calling my own beloved FS bike antiquated, its just what I feel. Have you tried a IGH before?


While we're sort of on the topic, one issue I heard with the Pinion is that you cannot shift under drivetrain load. I'm assuming this isn't the case with the Rholoff/Alfine?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

phlegm said:


> While we're sort of on the topic, one issue I heard with the Pinion is that you cannot shift under drivetrain load. I'm assuming this isn't the case with the Rholoff/Alfine?


My only experience is with the Alfine with Di2, so I can't speak for Rholoff or mech shifting, hoping for feedback as well. I do feel that is not wise to shift under load on the Alfine, however, the Di2 shifting is so fast and precise that believe it is possible to get use to that. I found on some other forum that is ideal to shift between pedal stroke on the 'dead' zone...the question I have is if I'm riding this extremely steep and rocky hill on my mtb and I would be able to do that without any concerns...that's why I'd like to try it...convert my FS to experience that.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> I know I know..'antiquated' is a harsh word...I am calling my own beloved FS bike antiquated, its just what I feel. Have you tried a IGH before?


Ages ago 3 speeds, not even remotely comparable to Alfine/Roholoff. But to be completely honest I do not see a reason to do so ... I never had a problem with a derailleur system, IGH are significantly heavier, possibly energy sapping, and apparently cannot shift as well under load ... the only thing they can do a derailleur cannot is shifting at a dead stop (although a derailleur can shift while not pedaling, e.g. downhill) ... but I am glad you are willing to be the ground breaker!!!!!!


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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

Evidently, We have someone () here who didn't read the article he posted, has no interest, has no knowledge of IGH's, and doesn't ride fast technical terrain enough, to tear a rear derailleur off of a bike. I've been riding for 35yrs and remember a least three times, I have snapped a derailleur. Jealous, and or:...Several of my friends have been on my bike and love the Rohloff....If UR not interested, just stay off.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Davide said:


> ... but I am glad you are willing to be the ground breaker!!!!!!


Not braking any grounds. You can find here some examples of people racing on them, there is even a guy that won his race on a IGH(he doesn't say how many people on his class...lol)

I was just interested to see the light end of IGH bikes by starting this thread, for the sake of our bikeporning needs.

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## ladljon (Nov 30, 2011)

There is electronic shift for Rohloffs, now....haven't heard the reviews,yet. Rode with XTR Rapid Rise for yrs, and, yes it was awesome. Very few times, I have a hard time shifting under power. Sometimes just plan ahead. My Rohloff that is the oldest (or broke in) shifts the easiest under power. I laugh when my friends are yelling at their shifters, on the climbs. Just with anything, U just get use to them.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Having the privilege the try the thing, I can create a theory: Is it really necessary to be concern about shifting under load? Only scenario where I remember having trouble with shifting (on cassette/RD)....was on that 'OH ****' unexpected climb turning on a curve and having to power thru plus shift at the same time. Since is possible to shift the IGH stationary...I can see myself saying 'OH ****!!!'...than half a second to shift to the granny gear....and climb the damn hill. 

Can't wait to install on my FS and have an answer to this theory.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

'although a derailleur can shift while not pedaling, e.g. downhill' - what ?!!! A derailleur cannot shift a chain unless you move the chain (i.e pedal) and allow the derailleur to push it onto the next sprocket .

Anyhow you need to give Andrepsz some credit here . he is delving into areas not many would go as a weight weenie . I have been looking at gearboxes myself (I will be making one soon although it will take some time) . They make more sense as they seal in the drive train so less risks of broken derailleurs, jammed up derailleurs, damaged cassettes etc . Being able to shift when stationary is a bonus especially near a hill . If you could get a gear box down to at least 1kg then you are half way to get it as light as a derailleur system .


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

andrepsz said:


> Having the privilege the try the thing, I can create a theory: Is it really necessary to be concern about shifting under load? Only scenario where I remember having trouble with shifting (on cassette/RD)....was on that 'OH ****' unexpected climb turning on a curve and having to power thru plus shift at the same time. Since is possible to shift the IGH stationary...I can see myself saying 'OH ****!!!'...than half a second to shift to the granny gear....and climb the damn hill.
> 
> Can't wait to install on my FS and have an answer to this theory.


I agree that the shifting under load scenario is most likely to occur on a trail you haven't ridden before, and on a blind corner like you mention.

I'm neither pro nor con on IGH, but always want to know the full benefits and drawbacks of any tech.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

phlegm said:


> I agree that the shifting under load scenario is most likely to occur on a trail you haven't ridden before, and on a blind corner like you mention.
> 
> I'm neither pro nor con on IGH, but always want to know the full benefits and drawbacks of any tech.


Funny language when I wrote this last night...that was me drinking a beer while swapping the Alfine wheel on my cargo bike so I can use the Di2 system on my FS. let me rephrase that: with the IGH hub on a blind corner I would say: 'I GOT YOU'....0.5s to shift and I'll be good to climb! cheers


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Seb K said:


> 'although a derailleur can shift while not pedaling, e.g. downhill' - what ?!!! A derailleur cannot shift a chain unless you move the chain (i.e pedal) and allow the derailleur to push it onto the next sprocket .
> 
> Anyhow you need to give Andrepsz some credit here . he is delving into areas not many would go as a weight weenie . I have been looking at gearboxes myself (I will be making one soon although it will take some time) . They make more sense as they seal in the drive train so less risks of broken derailleurs, jammed up derailleurs, damaged cassettes etc . Being able to shift when stationary is a bonus especially near a hill . If you could get a gear box down to at least 1kg then you are half way to get it as light as a derailleur system .


You are coasting, you shift, and the second you restart pedaling you are in gear. Works like a charm, try it.

Andrepsz is brave! and I would jump on a gear box in a blink if there was not for the 3 pounds weight penalty, the two cables, the twist shift, efficiency concerns, and the  question mark about shifting under power ... and it will be on my e-bike when I cannot go uphill any longer! :thumbsup:


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Davide said:


> You are coasting, you shift, and the second you restart pedaling you are in gear. Works like a charm, try it.
> 
> Andrepsz is brave! and I would jump on a gear box in a blink if there was not for the 3 pounds weight penalty, the two cables, the twist shift, efficiency concerns, and the question mark about shifting under power ... and it will be on my e-bike when I cannot go uphill any longer! :thumbsup:


Effigear gearbox has a trigger shifter so you can remove that from your list!


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

lRaphl said:


> Effigear gearbox has a trigger shifter so you can remove that from your list!


Yes, for the Roholoff there is also the Cinq5 system The Monkey Lab: Tech Talk: Neil's Cinq5 Shift:R Rohloff Trigger Shifter Review although it requires two levers and seems quite fidgety ...

The Effigear (a gear box with belt drive) was reviewed at https://www.pinkbike.com/news/cavalerie-anakin-first-ride-2016.html weight issues to the side the shifting (same problem: you can't shift under power ... that is why car gears have a clutch!), and the drag and efficiency of the system, even when coasting or jumping, seemed to rise real concerns.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

lRaphl said:


> Effigear gearbox has a trigger shifter so you can remove that from your list!


There is also trigger and Twist mech for the Alfine. As I understand that's the difference from the Rohloff, Alfine is spring loaded and Rohloff is not.

Two draw backs for Alfine with trigger:

-I've seeing some comments on potencial cable pull flaws on the Alfine, plus the inevitable vulnerability to get the housing dirty in muddy conditions.

-The trigger only shifts once at the time, you can't push the lever on one stroke to shift 3 or 4 at once.

Di2 solves both problems: There is no cable and the motor is sitting right on top of the cone to shift the hub, so its fully protected from mud. Its also faster since you can program it to shift all gears on one push....its FAST!!!!

Di2 is what I am going to be using on my FS.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Davide said:


> You are coasting, you shift, and the second you restart pedaling you are in gear. Works like a charm, try it.
> 
> Andrepsz is brave! and I would jump on a gear box in a blink if there was not for the 3 pounds weight penalty, the two cables, the twist shift, efficiency concerns, and the question mark about shifting under power ... and it will be on my e-bike when I cannot go uphill any longer! :thumbsup:


You should never shift when not pedalling . You put strain on the cable, the shifter gear and most importantly the guide wheel on the derailleur .


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Btw, I'm selling the wheel that came on my cargo bike....so I can buy the 11 speed version for my FS :thumbsup:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292518925013

Cargo now has the mech version:


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

——-


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Having the chance to try the mech shifting version of the Alfine, I have to say; not for performance. Di2 is another animal!

I believe this motor is set at the highest speed, and I also believe there is also a way to setup 1 press to climb all gears at once. watch!

Between 0.7s and 0.8s to shift up or down.

Found on youtube a speed test for a Dura Dura Ace Di2 R9150: between 2.5s and 2.9s.

Alfine Di2 wins easy! Of course I want to setup the Alfine as 11speed and make the test again, but everything indicates that it won't go over 1s to shift.

if doesn't play, click on the VIMEO logo.





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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

andrepsz said:


> ---


Morse for "G"?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> ---


I agree!


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh man I'm so happy right now...everything is fitting just perfectly! 27.5X2.25 R'Ron on a 2011 Scott Spark 10 26" L frame, great clearance with frame including at max travel....and...went on a first bike ride, shifting is heaven on heart!

Sram Red RD as a chain tensioner is temporary, still working on a 3D printed custom part witch will save several grams, front chainring is also temporary...also working on a 3D printed direct mount 22T or even 20T to save even more weight. I'm also lacing the front wheel with the same Crest 650b rim, same tires...to save another ton of weight (coming from WTB scrapper rim with WTB 26x2.8 tire)....despite all future changes the bike is at 23lbs already, shooting for under 22lbs after all is done. 









Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

I'd like to log here my recent experience with the Alfine 11sp Di2. Did my first long ride along with other 100 plus riders, about 60 miles on trail/fire road. Overall the system did great! of course one of my main curiosities was around the theoretical 'drag' that people comment online...I personalty didn't feel any resistance over other riders next to me, my pace was just fine. Shifting is crisp, fast, silent and much less awkward specially going uphill on steep sections, I noticed at least two riders next to me on Sram Eagle having issues with shifting, you know when that chain goes up under load and creates that loud sound, like is going to explore....none of that happens with the Alfine Di2. 

I have only one case to hopefully solve: gear skipping, and I'm here to ask if anyone else noticed this same issue...probably not on trail since I have this feeling that I'm pretty much the only one doing this, hopefully not. To describe the problem, my pedaling works fine on all gears 'if' I'm just cruising at low torque, but If I decide to stand and hammer uphill with a much higher torque I might get a skipping symptom. During all those 60 miles I only had about 4 to 5 times of this issue....wish is still not bad considering we can get that amount of imperfections out of a Regular RD/Cassette drive train on those same 60 miles.

I'm pretty confident that is just a fine tuning issue, maybe if I go into the E-tube software and set the micro adjustment to a different position I might solve the issue.

Anyone using this system? guess I should say in their commuter bikes?


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## an1mal (May 28, 2004)

I have a good bit of experience with the Alfine 8 and 11 hubs. I quit riding cassette gearing after snapping too many chains - even 8 and 9 speed chains broke too readily and modern 10, 11, 12 speed chains are pretty fragile. I usually put a 20-23T cog on them and haven't had too much trouble with XC duty running 32-36T on the chainring. On a commuter 18 or 19T cog is nice for a bit more speed.

After snapping a 9 speed chain four times in a race (I even tried swapping to a new chain mid-race), I switched my XC race bike to single speed and my commuter (an old rigid 26er) to an Alfine 8. The commuter held up so well (and has thousands of trouble free miles on it), that I ended up sticking an Alfine 8 on a Cannondale Caffeine 29er Single Speed Hard Tail. I liked this so much that it became my XC race bike, and I've since switched a number of bikes to Alfine 8's.

I really like the Afline 8 - seems to be very durable and much cheaper than a high end derailleur/cassette. They work great in mud and while you may have to lighten up on torque slightly to downshift, they shift amazing compared to derailleurs in my opinion. The gap between gears 5 and 6 is slightly annoying (feels pretty good if you've been riding single speed though!). I think the slight weight increase (versus a 1x setup) is made up for with reliability and the benefits of a perfect chain line. They are slightly draggier in the four lowest gears, but they tend to wear in and get better with time - plus I only use the lowest gears for gnarly climbs and am just thankful to have the option.

I put an Alfine 11 on a Lenz Milk Money 4.0. It shifts even smoother than the Alfine 8, the spacing between gear ratios is nice and consistent, and the wider range is nice. However, it is much more finicky than the 8 speed - harder to get the shifter adjusted. If any play in the hub bearings develops, it will shift poorly. Lastly, it leaks gear oil - particularly if you set the bike at an angle. I think the grease lubricated 8 speed is more durable and reliable. The shifter cable can freeze up, but the hub itself seems to do ok in the cold.

I got a cheap Bikes-Direct single-speed fat bike and put a duomatic 2 speed hub on it, which was pretty light. It worked perfectly reliably and even though I messed with gear ratios and adjusting the shift point, I never really liked it - seemed like I was either spinning too fast or torquing too slow. However, an Alfine 8 on the same fat bike is transformative - keeps going in mud, ice, snow when every other drivetrain has gunked up. Don't need as much range on a fat bike as you aren't going to be trying to hit 30mph on the flats anyway.


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