# Pre STI Rapidfire



## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm not sure if that's the correct name but for a few years Shimano had STI shifters that both the upshift and downshift levers went in the same direction. Were they any good or were there any known problems with them? Are they even worth getting?


Tim


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

STI stands for shimano total intergration.... so every combined shifter and brake lever setup they've offered are STI whether it be for mountain or road bikes. The dual thumb-lever mtb shifters were rapidfire, the single thumble/single index finger shifters were rapidfire plus. There was nothing wrong with rapidfire (in fact shimano offered it again years later, and other shifter makers have used it) and its dual-thumb push levers except for ergonomics and speed shimano decided a trigger pressed by the index finger mounted under the bar was better after a couple years of telling us that two thumb levers were best. I say under the bar was better because the Ez-Fire shifters puts the trigger above the bar and supposedly that's best for the lower-level shifters and commuter groups.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> STI stands for shimano total intergration.... so every combined shifter and brake lever setup they've offered are STI whether it be for mountain or road bikes. The dual thumb-lever mtb shifters were rapidfire, the single thumble/single index finger shifters were rapidfire plus. There was nothing wrong with rapidfire (in fact shimano offered it again years later, and other shifter makers have used it) and its dual-thumb push levers except for ergonomics and speed shimano decided a trigger pressed by the index finger mounted under the bar was better after a couple years of telling us that two thumb levers were best. I say under the bar was better because the Ez-Fire shifters puts the trigger above the bar and supposedly that's best for the lower-level shifters and commuter groups.


So, basically the dual thumb is no different than the current Plus version in functionality. Myself, I prefer thumbies. The reason I'm asking is I was offered a pair at a good price. I was going to replace the cheap Sachs twist grips on my wife's bike with them.

Tim


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

If you're talking about the very first generation shifters, 90/91 vintage, don't bother. Pretty awful and prone to breaking. I use thumbies and wouldn't consider these shifters. The STI shifters from a few years later were much better.

'Guin


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

They are referred to as "push-push" and they "suck-sucked"


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

pinguwin said:


> If you're talking about the very first generation shifters, 90/91 vintage, don't bother. Pretty awful and prone to breaking. I use thumbies and wouldn't consider these shifters. The STI shifters from a few years later were much better.
> 
> 'Guin


Not exactly sure of the timeline but they're Deore DX. That should make them early 90's I think.

Tim


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## XR4TI (Sep 6, 2005)

Like these? First generation 1990 XT and DX. I had the NOS XTs set up before and I thought they worked fine. Can't say about longevity though.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

XR4TI said:


> Like these? First generation 1990 XT and DX. I had the NOS XTs set up before and I thought they worked fine. Can't say about longevity though.


They look so huge compared to new shifters. That's probably why I like them so much. Heck, I'm still buying up 4 finger brake levers. 

Tim


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> The dual thumb-lever mtb shifters were rapidfire, the single thumble/single index finger shifters were rapidfire plus.





CS2 said:


> I'm not sure if that's the correct name


So, there was a different name for them. Thanks, I knew if I asked here someone would eventually know the answer.

Tim


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

My only complaint with the push-push style shifters was a result of wearing full fingered-gloves. The material of the glove around my thumb would constantly catch between the levers after a shift. It was always a pin to have to unstick my thumb from the shifter after each shift. In the wintertime it was a bigger issue.

Otherwise they worked fine for me.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

I've had three bikes with the "push-push" rapidfires. One was DX, and the shifters were already shabby when I got the bike, so were immediately replaced. The other two were LX-equipped. One of them had a problem with the left shifter being unable to pull enough cable to reach the big ring. The other set, on a Raleigh Tangent, was perfect. The guy who bought the bike said it was the smoothest shifting ride he had ever owned. Here's some pics:


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Matt H. said:


>


I absolutley love that Raliegh. It's beautiful.

Tim


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The exage lx rapidfire STI were generally poorer made and less reliable, not to mention HEAVIER. 550 grams versus the DX/XT rapidfire STI at 450g. The XT/XTR rapidfire plus setups were much slimmed down at dropped the weight of the setups to 410-420g. Even new tourney level EZ-Fire STI setups are lighter still today, around 400-410g.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

CS2 said:


> I absolutley love that Raliegh. It's beautiful.
> 
> Tim


Thanks Tim. And since you started this thread, I figure you won't mind if I "hijack" it to post some more pics. I was real lucky to find that Raleigh last year. I think it was a '91, and remained in dead-stock condition except for the saddle and tires. With a little work I had it looking good as new.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Matt H. said:


> Thanks Tim. And since you started this thread, I figure you won't mind if I "hijack" it to post some more pics. I was real lucky to find that Raleigh last year. I think it was a '91, and remained in dead-stock condition except for the saddle and tires. With a little work I had it looking good as new.


Do you have any idea when Shimano changed their LX canti's to the more modern design. I've seen this version come up for sale occasionally.

Tim


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

1993


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## GiovanniPeletonni82 (Dec 6, 2007)

CS2 said:


> Do you have any idea when Shimano changed their LX canti's to the more modern design. I've seen this version come up for sale occasionally.
> 
> Tim


1992 was the year that LX turned all black, and I think this was the first year with low profile canti brakes.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

GiovanniPeletonni82 said:


> 1992 was the year that LX turned all black, and I think this was the first year with low profile canti brakes.


Are the LX brakes MattH has on the above Raleigh considered wide profile? They don't look like any of my early Deore wide profile brakes.

Tim


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

CS2 said:


> Are the LX brakes MattH has on the above Raleigh considered wide profile? They don't look like any of my early Deore wide profile brakes.
> 
> Tim


The silver-finished LX cantis on the Raleigh had a profile identical to the black-phosphate-finished Mountain-LX cantis that were on my '89 Trek 950, seen here (sorry for the angle, couldn't find a brake-specific shot):









And those '89 Mountain-LX brakes were definitely not as wide-profile as some contemporary SLRs, like those on my '89 MB-3:









It might be safe to say that those nice-looking silver LX cantis on the Raleigh were descended from the Mountain-LX line.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

GiovanniPeletonni82 said:


> 1992 was the year that LX turned all black, and I think this was the first year with low profile canti brakes.


Nope...that was 1993.


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

Matt H. said:


> I was real lucky to find that Raleigh last year. I think it was a '91, and remained in dead-stock condition.....


The shifters (and probably the rest too) are from 1992. The push buttons got the rounded edges that year.


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## GiovanniPeletonni82 (Dec 6, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> Nope...that was 1993.


Timeline (as I remember it): late in 1991 I got a co-op placement through my highschool at a local bike shop; hired on part time as a wrench the following summer (and doing bike assemblies for $8 per bike; purchased a black Concorde Mirage (product designed and imported from Taiwan by velland tec) that summr (1992) with all black Deore LX parts, including low profile brakes.

I recall an article in MTB action (I was 17 and didn't realize what garbage it was) reviewing the 1992 Deore LX parts, comparing it favourably to XTR, although I found the stuff to be less reliable.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

You recall wrong because XTR was new for the 1992 model year. Deore LX got its all black shiny revision with XTR trickle-down features for the 1993 model year. MBA's review where they compared the new Deore LX to the XTR group was in the February 1993 issue on pages 87-93. The cover image was a yellow hardtail with blue forks outside for a winter-scene leaning against some birch trees. I know who Concorde bikes and it was probably an early production run 1993. Its not unusual for shimano to produce a small percentage (like 1%) of their following model year parts in time for the fall Interbike show so brands can get early samples out to their dealers (usually restricted to a half dozen bikes per dealer) to drum up interest in them and generate larger booking-orders.


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## GiovanniPeletonni82 (Dec 6, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> You recall wrong...QUOTE]
> 
> Could be. Wasn't 1992 the last year for deore DX parts?


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## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

No, 1993 was, although it seemed that most bikes that year had either LX or XT, so maybe the writing was on the wall for the DX group.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

It was because of how revised the Deore LX group was in 1993 that caused Deore DX to be discontinued at the end of that model year. Hundreds of models which would have gotten Deore DX got Deore LX instead and well, shimano got stuck with a lot of DX produced parts that didn't get sold. So they dropped the group instead of overhauling it the following year as they did to Deore XT (for 1994). For that matter the revised Deore LX group would be revised again the following year also with the other groups because shimano finally brought compact chainrings to their mtb models (all but XTR, which was the only one to stay with 74/110 pattern rings). All the new groups they'd introduced in 1993 would change names again in 1994... the Altus groups became Acera and Alivio, Exage ES & LT got replaced by STX and STX Special Edition. LX and XT got 58/94mm pattern, the rest used 58mm for the inner rings and either the other rings were riveted to the inner ring (as with Acera and Alivo) or the middle ring was 58mm also and the big rig bolted to a 95mm pattern hole on the middle ring (STX & STX SE). Those 58mm only pattern cranks are really only useful today for building up trials bikes as the chainrings for the mid/outer positions are getting downright obscure to find.


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## Smurf Hunter (Mar 13, 2008)

I've got 1/2 a working pair of 1990 DX. The right side is in decent working shape, but I smashed off the left shifter pod in 1993 or so and replaced with the cheapest thumbie I could find. I was a young, poor teenager at the time - please don't judge me 

I'm fixing up this bike with indexed thumbies - if anyone wants the old shifter, or even the pair of brake levers let me know. I'm undecided what I should do for brake levers - maybe some old ritchey logics, or worse case tektro canti levers.


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## ejosrq (Oct 30, 2006)

I still have working push/push LX shift/brake levers on my 1989 Raliegh Tangent. I will have to post some pictures now that I have seen MattHs' great Tangent photos. I've owned the Tangent since new and it's still in great shape. It's also white, but with a black splatter paint effect. I believe 89 was the first year. Shifter-wize, a nice upgrade for 7-speed thumb-shift bikes are Shimano STX/Alivio, SL-MC40 shiftetrs. I put a set on my wifes 1991 Shwinn Woodlands and they work great: cheap too. Keep an eye out for a new post with my Tangent photos.


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