# Department store bike bashing



## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

ive seen this alot and its pretty sad..fact is everyone doesnt have $500 to $5000 or more to spend on a bike to get started riding..Every bike can be upgraded over time and the trail doesnt know what name is on the frame..maybe a name means something to most as i like GT bikes myself but thats not all its about..Youll be very surprised at the quality of frames coming on these department store bikes..Ok ill give you thay arent the lighest frames but they are strong and can take alot of abuse..And really whats so different about a T6061 frame from walmart or on big name brand bike?..welds all look good to me..You all should help people get ridding and stop bashing them for only being able to afford a department store bike. I owned a Mongoose XR-75 from walmart and put that bike through paces alot of very very expensive bike went through with very good results..Im not saying i would downhill one or take big drops or do huge jumps with it but not all want to do that...it handled everything Oleta river park in north miami could dish out and then some. funny it was only a $135.00 bike that with some adjustments and checking over for safety was a tremedous amount of fun..not the best candidate for many upgrades but it can be modded with most anything you want..Now the department store bike are coming with the same componants those 400-500 dollar LBS bike are coming with..(80/100mm suntour shocks and cranks and tektro or promax mechanical disc brakes and use 1-1/8 stems stc... all for 100s less than a LBS built name brand bike.One bike that really stands out are the GENESIS brand bikes..suspension geometry is very good on the V2100 and its a big upgrade candidate..Heres one you would never expect to have been a $150.00 walmart bike with upgrades. The good thing is it didnt cost $500 up front..bike was actually bought used at a yard sale for $60.00 and was upgraded over time..Wondering about weight?..try 29lbs:thumbsup:
To put this in perspective a Jamis dakar XC sport weighs in at 34lbs with a $700 price tag using lower level parts than what was upgraded to this genesis...would take this bike anyday.


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## WVJon75 (Jul 23, 2006)

Good point. I agree with even though I now have an expensive bike that is actually way more expensive than I am really comfortable spending. 
The thing that turns me off most about mountainbiking is the constant talk about bikes and new products that fix non existant problems so the bike industry can have something to sell. I also notice a lot of overly expensive bikes owned by people who never ride them anywhere near their potential. The bike snobbery is a ridiculous to the point where I like biking but can't stand most "serious" cyclists. I was perfectly fine with my 1986 Rockhopper until around 2000. I then took a few years off and bought a 2006 Fisher Marlin for $400 which was a fine bike, even raced it a few times. Since then I've had a few more expensive bikes but quit honestly most new bikes aren't as revolutionary I think and i sometimes even regret spending the money.
I think we tend to lose sight of the purpose of biking which is to have fun. We get caught up in the materialism of it like many other things in modern life. I say have fun and ignore the bike snobs.

BTW I have ridden at Oleta and Markham. Nice parks, really liked Markham.


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## p_h (Sep 27, 2010)

You can find a quality entry level bike from a local bike shop and pay little to no different than what you would pay for a walmart bike. In doing so you not only support the industry but you hopefully help a local business and make a connection for the future when you need service, parts or just need some questions answered, something that walmart will not provide for you. 

I understand that you are trying to justify your purchase of a crappy department store bike that was put together by someone who has no idea how to adjust a derailleur let alone a set of brakes. Unfortunately for you in this case there is enough information to prove you wrong. 

I understand you take offense to the bashing you have to endure, but if you did your research you wouldn't be complaining about something that you could have avoided if you weren't so cheap.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

p_h said:


> You can find a quality entry level bike from a local bike shop and pay little to no different than what you would pay for a walmart bike. In doing so you not only support the industry but you hopefully help a local business and make a connection for the future when you need service, parts or just need some questions answered, something that walmart will not provide for you.
> 
> I understand that you are trying to justify your purchase of a crappy department store bike that was put together by someone who has no idea how to adjust a derailleur let alone a set of brakes. Unfortunately for you in this case there is enough information to prove you wrong.
> 
> I understand you take offense to the bashing you have to endure, but if you did your research you wouldn't be complaining about something that you could have avoided if you weren't so cheap.


Ive not been bashed for anything first off..know your facts..maybe alittle of that expensive bike money should have gone to an education instead?.You miss the point entirely but i understand coming from a troll...The bike pictured is far from a stock bike put together by a walmart builder..I expect responses like yours and it doesnt bother me...it makes me laugh actually at the ignorance.


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

Will NEVER buy a department store ever. And bud, if you come in here saying that Wally Mart bikes are ok, EXPECT some backlash. 

First of, My brother was almost killed because of a box store bike. The forks fell out of the frame and well, 45 staples/ 27 stitches and a $10,000 settlement from CCM.

Secondly, I've owned PLENTY of box store bikes. Everyone with major flaws, terrible components and just plain scary to ride. They never last more then 2 years. I had a mongoose, 250$.. Frame cracked, I had a schwinn 500$, crankset fell apart and rear shock snapped. 

These bikes are very poorly made, and then very poorly put together by store staff with ZERO bicycle know how.

I bought my bike for 450$ at my LBS. It's an Opus Strat. Solid, light, awesome bike with no fear of it rusting out and falling apart.

Be Careful who you are calling a troll, these guys have been cycling probably longer then you have been alive.

Not my opinion, just stating facts.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I've looked them over pretty close and I say that you get what you pay for. No free lunches. Nothing wrong with riding an inexpensive bike if that's all you can afford. Pay no attention to bike snobs, concentrate on your riding skills instead.

Buying a cheap department store bike with the intent of upgrading it with nice parts is a bad deal all around. Do the math and add it up, for the same, or probably less money you'll get a complete bike with the same parts and yes, the frame *will* be better. a lot.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

No problem at all with department store bikes or "low end" bike in general. But the biggest advantage to buying from a LBS is that they generally do a good job putting together a bike from the box. Most people don't know how to properly set up a bike, and if it was set up by a Wal-Mart employee it would be a REALLY bad idea to roll it down the mountain. At the very least, do some research and assemble/tune the bike correctly. It will be safer AND will result in a bike that lasts longer.

I think there are two better options to buying a bike from a department store:

1. Craigslist/used
2. Single speed / hardtail vs. Department store full suspension

You can find GREAT 10-15 year old steel hardtail frames for under $200 that have XT level drive train components on them. Upgrade the fork and replace some worn out components over time and you'll have a very nice bike.

1999 GF HKEK w/ XT shifters/derailleurs - $160
RS Tora Coil fork - $180


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"Be Careful who you are calling a troll, these guys have been cycling probably longer then you have been alive."

priceless...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> I've looked them over pretty close and I say that you get what you pay for. No free lunches. Nothing wrong with riding an inexpensive bike if that's all you can afford. Pay no attention to bike snobs, concentrate on your riding skills instead.
> 
> Buying a cheap department store bike with the intent of upgrading it with nice parts is a bad deal all around. Do the math and add it up, for the same, or probably less money you'll get a complete bike with the same parts and yes, the frame *will* be better. a lot.


You DO get exactly what you pay for.

$250 at the box store = cheap, flashy bike and components trying to look like something more expensive not assembled well. 
$250 at the LBS = less flash and more reliability

the best bikes at the box stores, IMO, are the ones that don't have suspension, don't have disc brakes, and are either SS, or have a basic derailleur system, and don't pretend to be mountain bikes (but have labels telling you not to ride them off road).


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

Uh, oh...I've seen these threads get ugly quick...hope not this time. 

OP, I am glad to see that you are quite happy with your ride. I doubt though that you will convince anyone here of the merits of the Walmart bikes. They have their place, but probably not here. Where they are built, how they are built and who they are built by will all come under scrutiny.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

p_h said:


> You can find a quality entry level bike from a local bike shop and pay little to no different than what you would pay for a walmart bike. In doing so you not only support the industry but you hopefully help a local business and make a connection for the future when you need service, parts or just need some questions answered, something that walmart will not provide for you.
> 
> I understand that you are trying to justify your purchase of a crappy department store bike that was put together by someone who has no idea how to adjust a derailleur let alone a set of brakes. Unfortunately for you in this case there is enough information to prove you wrong.
> 
> I understand you take offense to the bashing you have to endure, but if you did your research you wouldn't be complaining about something that you could have avoided if you weren't so cheap.


OK, I know I should stay out of this but here goes. The OP has his opinion, and good for him. You have yours, and that's fine too.

But your post is dripping with condecension and demeaning comments. Not necessary and not helpful. Where is all the hate coming from?


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## slowridemo (Jan 17, 2006)

OP, I'm glad you like your bike. The more people that enjoy riding bikes the better it is for all of us.

Yeah, a bike is a bike. Once you delve a little deeper then things change quickly. A car is a car too, but would you go on a message board for high end cars and talk about your new Kia and how great it is, especially once you put on some new rims and high performance tires? Probably not because you know if wouldn't get much love, so don't expect the same love for a dept store bike here as for a better brand. And that Kia is even an much better product than a dept store bike. (Well maybe "much" is a stretch)

Everyone here has talked about the perils of dept store bikes, but just remember most of the time you find those bikes in the toy dept. That should be a clue. Plus they are built to be disposable on the cheap end. They are meant to be replaced when when broken. Yes, the real bike brands are always pushing "innovations" (good and bad), but they need to sell products like any business, and their bikes tend to last a long time. They can't count on them all breaking and being thrown out.

This is turning into a long post, but I am really amazed at how the big box stores can sell bikes for over $400. It must be ignorance and laziness from people not being familiar with bike shops and deciding "I'm going to grab that bike while picking up some new towels for the bathroom." :shocked: (of course there is the bike shop intimidation factor but that's a whole different thread of which multiple exist already I'm sure)


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I have no direct issue with DSB(department store bikes) but I prefer recommending to those who are interested in getting into the sport to look at their Local Bike Shop. For one it's more community supporting to support the mom and pop shop verses supporting the mega stores. And the perks of buying even the least expensive bike at a LBS is worth spending the few extra dollars. DSB, you don't know who or if qualified to assembled the bike and I'm pretty sure you can't test ride them. All bike require a break in period where the cables will stretch causing shifting / brake issues. When I worked at a bike shop all of the wheels had to be gone through to make sure they are tight and true. I would assume many people don't know how and/or are uncomfortable with performing maintenance themselves and wheel truing is should be done by someone with lots of experience. DS don't offer tune ups and wheel truing were if bought at your LBS most offer with the purchase and you know who the mechanic is. NO don't get me wrong meow, here's where I do support the DSB... I do understand not everyone can fork over the big bucks and most don't race or do hardcore dh and free riding. If one's purpose is for bike path, light trail riding, commuting or general travel then sure, save some $$ and go with the DSB. But regardless maintenance will still be needed. NOW the big reason why I do support the DS, children! I don't see any good reason to buy a high $$$ bike for a child or preteen who's just going out out grow the bike. (FYI, it's unsafe to buy a bigger bike for them to grow into). Also, I don't suggest buying a high$$ bike for a child or an adult who wants to try the sport or a specific riding style. Much like many other sports and actives such as musical instruments , I'm sure it would tick any parent off to spend a lot of money just for what ever it is to sit in a closet or in the garage just to collect dust because the person decided they weren't interested. So as a Starter, sure! buy a DSB (although I still recommend LBS) , and much like myself and I'm sure others who are branded as "snobs" we all started somewhere... I started with a my brothers hand me down hard tail. I tried observed trials which didn't work out since I didn't have a sense of balance at the time and XC racing that my tiny lungs and asthma couldn't handle it. Then I tried DH'ing with a DSB Univega DS600 I got for Xmas. Not even weighing 100lbs soaking wet I bent the frame, cracked the welds and blew out a rear shock going the ski mountains. As my skills increased the need for a strong bike to fit my needs increased which is why I have higher end bikes. How does one get the things they want? They weren't handed down to me on a silver platter, I worked my a$$ off 13years ago scrubbing pots and pans, mowing lawns, cleaning pools, painting houses and many other odd jobs to get the things I wanted. I feel no honor or pride in having things given to me. Those are just my opinions, just letters on a computer screen... You want it, Work for it, Earn it, Own it. and if you can't there is only one person to blame.

that's enough rambling, hopefully some of it makes sense. In a nutshell, you"ll spend some more and get more back from your LBS. 

Time to take the dog on a bike ride


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## Flat Again??? (Dec 24, 2012)

I have a Schwinn Rivel 29er that I bought at Target as a trail-day beater--to carry large tools, etc. It was $260 on sale, IIRC. *Guys, it's actually kind of scary how good the bike is... *

-BUT-

the paradox of these bikes is that you need to know how to wrench in order to ride them!!! Assembly was atrocious. Nothing was tightened correctly. Saddle and pedals were trash.

But once I found some decent pedals/saddle from the spare parts bin, assembled and tightened everything, the bike is excellent for what I bought it for. I mean this complete bike cost less than my Fizik Kurve saddle! 

My regular rides are all from the LBS (Surly KM, Pugsley, Giant Trance X), as well as a Santa Cruz Tallboy Al I picked up at the recent garage sale. So I know decent bikes. The Schwinn Rivel is a bit of a pig, but more than fine for my purposes. The SRAM twist shifters work great, as does the bottom-of-the-barrel Shimano derailleurs (tourney? altus?) I even like the wonky Tektro mechanical brakes.

But the bike is close to worthless to the average consumer who doesn't even know what they don't know as far as final assembly. So, like I said, a bit of a paradox. A cheap bike for the knowledgeable consumer? :skep:


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

I agree the department store bikes arent assembled very well but that doesnt take away from most of them being very capable starter bikes for light trail useage..With some upgrades they can be used more aggressively..Ive seen local bike shop bikes and thats all fine..They carry name brands and are more professionally assembled.. My gripe is that they dont really have much more on them componant wise for double the money or even more..I personally love GT bikes but when i saw SR suntour shocks and cranks and a bottom line shimano drive train on it; it turned me off for the price..Just about anything you buy you will want to upgrade at some point whether its better forks or cranks or shifters or whatever..The way i see it is i wouldve paid $500.00 for a GT Aggressor frame..Anyone think that GT frame is worth $500.00?. Not all models but, a few are actually well built bikes from department stores when assembled and adjusted properly. The Mongoose XR-200 and XR-Pro 29er, The Genesis V2100 and new SABRE model..most of the hardtails are decent as well..Both schwinn and mongoose and genesis have some nice bikes. Use common sense and either let a bike shop look over it and make adjustments if youre not capable of such and dont ride stupid and you will enjoy your bike you paid half the money for. Most of these bikes have 1-1/8 steerer tubes with 80mm of shock travel and trigger shifters and use stems instead of the cheap 1' quills they all used to use at one point... Some bike shops are carrying the GENESIS brand assembled by them for a little bit more on the show room floors.The pics i enclosed are an example of what you can do to some of the models from a department store brand bike..They accept the same things any expensive bike does and the frames are plenty stout and reliable.. ill just say its fine if you buy from a LBS and ive no problem with that at all but when someone comes on here saying they just bought a wally world mongoose and need some help with something on it dont bash them for it. Maybe try to help them so they can get started in the biking fun we all love.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

shawnt2012 said:


> Will NEVER buy a department store ever. And bud, if you come in here saying that Wally Mart bikes are ok, EXPECT some backlash.
> 
> First of, My brother was almost killed because of a box store bike. The forks fell out of the frame and well, 45 staples/ 27 stitches and a $10,000 settlement from CCM.
> 
> ...


Well im 43 years old so not sure about that..Sorry about your brother but a fork just falling out sounds like someone not checking everything on the bike for safety..Cranks falling apart i can imagine happening..Thats the good thing about upgrading...yes i agree the bikes are assembled poorly and its a wise decision if you purchase one to take it to a LBS and let them go over it...As far as a frame cracking...well it happens to the best of them..Hmm i wonder if walmart put together the TREK bikes if they would get good reviews???????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

as a bike shop employee for the last few years, I have seen too many department store bikes with bent, shattered, and maladjusted parts to think any of them are safe for riding trails. if you can get a Wallyworld bike to last you more than a dozen actual rides, consider yourself very lucky. those bikes are fine for riding bike paths and neighborhood cruises, but they are not safe for actual trail riding.

some of them are getting better, but for the average consumer, the cost and time it takes to get it working properly in the first place, then upgrade it to decent parts is not worth it. most people don't want to spend every other week putting new wheels, a new fork, replacing headsets, cranks, etc, when they could have just spent more money to get a bike that is decent in the first place. if that's your thing, go for it. it sounds like a waste of my time when I could be riding.

a polished turd is still a turd.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

The pictures of the bike i posted does not belong to me but belongs to a member of another forum dedicated to any brand bike either from a department store or any bike shop.There you can talk about anything bike related on any brand without being bashed for it..This is the list of upgrades that was posted on the site. This person used to ride a very expensive TREK bike that was stolen from him

-Genesis V2100 $60.00, Area yard sale.
-Rockshox xc 30 tk. Spare from stolen trek liquid.
-Cane Creek headset. S-8 wht. $12.00, e-bay.
-Race Face ride xc stem. $15.00, Blueskycycling.
-Race Face ride bars. $15.00, Blueskycycling.
-Sram foam grips. Red/Black $18.00, e-bay.
-Sram x5, 9 speed shifters. Spare from storage.
-Promax brake levers. Wht. $21.00, e-bay.
-Sram x5 crankset with bb. $35.00, e-bay.
-Wellgo, aluminum pedals. Spares.
-Sram x3 R/derailleur Spare from storage.
-White aluminum seat post clamp. $8.00, e-bay.
-Cannondale seat post, aluminum. $10.00, Blueskycycling.
-Sram Powerglide PG970 cassette. New spare from storage.
-Avenir Wheelset XM260 $40.00, ***** Sporting goods, new with no tags.
-No joke, thanks ***** management. 
-Felt XOM multi trail tires. 26 X 2.3 $30.00, Blueskycycling, set.
-Rear disk brake adapter. $30.00, e-bay.
-Funn EZR brakes. Rotors, F/R 180mm. $32.00, Blueskycycling, set with rotors.
-Soon to be white Avid Elixir, hydraulic.
-Rockshox , Ario rear shock. 165mm. $150.00, e-bay. Coming soon.
-N Gear, Jump Stop chain guide. Stored for 1 X 9, 1 X 7 rides.
-Misc. bolts, nuts, housing etc. $25.00
-Total invested to date. One year span. $501.00


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> Hmm i wonder if walmart put together the TREK bikes if they would get good reviews?


no, because Trek would have to seriously scale back their quality standards to make their bikes affordable to Walmart customers, and having the bikes assembled with the fork on backwards and the RD set up so it gets tangled in the spokes when you shift it would result in some lousy customer experiences.


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> The pictures of the bike i posted does not belong to me but belongs to a member of another forum...


So, let me get this straight...you thought it a good idea to come to this forum and post a thread exalting the merits of department store bikes, post a pic of a bike and list its build to prove your point, but the bike belongs to someone else on a different forum. Hmmm...who's the troll???

Your post said you "like" GT...Is that what you ride? Post up your wheels!


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> Well im 43 years old so not sure about that..Sorry about your brother but a fork just falling out sounds like someone not checking everything on the bike for safety..Cranks falling apart i can imagine happening..Thats the good thing about upgrading...yes i agree the bikes are assembled poorly and its a wise decision if you purchase one to take it to a LBS and let them go over it...As far as a frame cracking...well it happens to the best of them..Hmm i wonder if walmart put together the TREK bikes if they would get good reviews???????????????????????????????????????????????????


Firstly, I am glad you take pride in biking and your bike. It's great to see.

As for the fork on my brothers bike.. There was a re-call notice ( exactly for that reason- CCM Heat ) and the store who sold it to him FAILED to take it off the rack.. That is where my anger and frustration comes from when buying bikes from stores like that.

Frame cracking, ya sure. I can brush that off.. crank sets and damaged BB's carving out the frame. Trek wouldn't allow that.


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

shekky said:


> "Be Careful who you are calling a troll, these guys have been cycling probably longer then you have been alive."
> 
> priceless...


:thumbsup:


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

mack_turtle said:


> as a bike shop employee for the last few years, I have seen too many department store bikes with bent, shattered, and maladjusted parts to think any of them are safe for riding trails. if you can get a Wallyworld bike to last you more than a dozen actual rides, consider yourself very lucky. those bikes are fine for riding bike paths and neighborhood cruises, but they are not safe for actual trail riding.
> 
> some of them are getting better, but for the average consumer, the cost and time it takes to get it working properly in the first place, then upgrade it to decent parts is not worth it. most people don't want to spend every other week putting new wheels, a new fork, replacing headsets, cranks, etc, when they could have just spent more money to get a bike that is decent in the first place. if that's your thing, go for it. it sounds like a waste of my time when I could be riding.
> 
> a polished turd is still a turd.


Again, Everyone wants to upgrade at some point..What makes a 500-600 dollar LBS bike any better with low grade bottom of the line SR suntour xct (V2 V3 or V4) shocks that weigh 5.5 lbs and SR suntour XCC or XCT (heavy square taper) cranks and mechanical brakes that get less than positive reviews like promax or tektro for some odd reason..I'll grant the parts are somewhat of an upgrade but not to the tune of 200 or even 400 dollars more...Most change out the componants i mentioned anyways to better equiptment...So in all i paid 100 to 125 more for a bike than it should be sold for because someone put it together with some experiance but in reality since most the parts would be changed anyway i paid 500- to 600 dollars for a frame from a name brand company..I just dont buy it. Mybe just a more expensive turd?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Interested in some of the "nice" bikes from big box stores.

Forge Sawback @ Target- Deore drivetrain components, WTB wheels, Avid bb5 brakes, etc. not bad for $560! but, and I have a big but, it's only sold online. I calculated the total cost if I wanted to buy one, and I would pay another $40 in tax. I could not get it to calculate shipping without putting my Paypal or credit card info in, but I imagine it's not cheap. if you're new to bikes, you probably don't have the knowledge or tools to assemble and adjust it correctly, so you're going to have to pay a bike shop to do that. most bike shops offer some sort of free service when you buy a bike from them, so in the long run, you have to pay them for all your maintenance needs. if you have someone to help you with tools and maintenance, you can save that, but you're still in over $600 for a bike when you could have gotten a bike that is at lease as nicely equipped from a LBS but with the benefit of proper assembly, maintenance, and warranty support.

what's one example, but it's going to be a similar losing game for most beginners. I think the result for a lot of new riders is that they give up after their bike falls apart. more resourceful riders will fix their own bikes, find bargain upgrades, and keep going, but most people don't have the patience for that nonsense and will give up entirely or ante up for a decent bike.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

HitmenOnlyInc said:


> So, let me get this straight...you thought it a good idea to come to this forum and post a thread exalting the merits of department store bikes, post a pic of a bike and list its build to prove your point, but the bike belongs to someone else on a different forum. Hmmm...who's the troll???
> 
> Your post said you "like" GT...Is that what you ride? Post up your wheels!


The trolls are guys who bash someone for biking on anything less than a LBS bike or better..Im here to defend in case you cant tell. I dont currently have a bike actually..I rode a GT Tequesta that had a rigid fork and street tires on it with cantilever front and rear brakes and a busted front derailleur... I bought a used Walmart Mongoose XR 200 from a pawn shop for 40.00 dollars and put the front fork and disc brake and wheels and handlebars and seat post and seat and rear promax v brakes on it to make it more of a trail bike..Had shimano ef-50 trigger shifters already on the GT but i bought new alivio front and rear derailleurs on it and used the stock GT shimano SLX crankset it had on it already along with the aluminum pedals..had to move so i sold the bike. but heres a pic of it anyhow.


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## Desert Rider (Feb 17, 2011)

1. Buy from your local bike shop and support entrepreneurship that drives the economy.

2. Encourage people to save longer before buying less quality.

3. Assuming that serious failures never happen on expensive bikes is not reality either. For example, I had the lever on my Hayes Strokers come off in my hand while braking. It was due to a design flaw with the dowel that holds the lever together. The bike was only a few weeks old at the time. My Pike fork also hydro locked after several rides. The chances of things breaking on cheap bikes is much higher, but it is still a problem and risk even when spending big money.

4. I'd like to see the top tier manufacturers do whatever it takes to offer a few full suspension bikes for about $400 less than their current "low end" models. It would ensure that mountain biking is a more realistic opportunity to more people who are otherwise kept out by the awkwardly high price of entry. Why full suspension? Because it's the more comfortable, fun and therefor encouraging experience for someone who is just getting into the sport.

5. Can we all admit that some of the pricing schemes on these bikes are a little outrageous for the average income in our country? There are many other industries and products just as guilty, but I think in the case of bicycles to say that "you get what you pay for" is becoming less true over time... especially now that almost all manufacturing moved from our country to Taiwan. (Yes, I know Taiwan factories are known for and capable of high QC) If I'm going to pay 5,000 for a bicycle, you better believe I want it to have helped employ people in my own struggling country.

Lastly, to bash someone for riding a department store bike is just wrong, but to recommend someone a department store bike isn't a good thing either.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

I dont recommend it per say...I actually like online outlets for bikes such as bikedirect.com or others like it...But for those who do happen to already have a department store bike and need some help it doesnt happen here..they get looked at as idiots and bashed for not buying something else..The cheapest full suspension bike other than a department store i know of are from Dawes and Gravity with the dawes having a much better design...But upon research and input from others the GENESIS V2100 from walmart has a very dependable and well designed geometry wise full suspension bike for $150.00 that accepts todays rear airshocks from aftermarket companies and are a big upgrade to the fake coil spring shocks...Fact is the frame is very well built although not the lightest..The pic of the bike i posted on the front page is a GENESIS V2100 that after all the mods has componants better than 600-700 dollar and even higher priced LBS bikes .And to top it all off it weighs under 30lbs as a full suspension bike..The GENESIS Sabre is supposed to have a lighter frame than that one..I wont say all the bikes make a good candidate for a serious trail bike but they can all be made to suit ones need for the most part...yes most have cheap plastic pedals and flexy cranks and weak wheels/'brakes and soft forks but we all change these eventually anyway dont we?.Even on a GT aggressor or a diamond back or a hardrock or whatever...none of them put componants on them to suit everyones needs. They just cost more up front because the bike shop built it and its a brand name associated with more serious riding. Im all for a LBS bike if you have the money or mommy and daddy does but im just asking that people stop bashing those who cant afford a LBS bike and just help them...in time they can decide if they want something better or choose to upgrade it or buy a different bike to serve the purpose they were looking for..My next build is going to be a custom build using a Motobecane Fantom frame if i go hardtail (cant find a resonable deal on a GT aggressor or avalanche frame  ..or believe it or not a GENESIS V2100 from walmart...i will be so happy to post the build on here especially with the walmart bike...Hope it makes some of you Cringe:thumbsup:


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

mack_turtle said:


> and I have a big but


tee hee


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Not many will buy a 500.00 bike from a department store but it does happen...Having that much to spend i would go to a LBS and see what they have but in the end they will have componants that most would all agree need replacing to begin with..To me its over paying for a frame and the 100 or so added to the price for the shop building and tuning the bike...Im all for supporting a LBS to look at a bike that people dont have the mechanical abilities to do.(money well spent)..But this thread is more about the bashing on people who didnt buy a LBS bike and got what they could afford at the time from a department store..If you get the right bike they are as upgradeable and have decent frames as a foundation to upgrade in time as you ride and learn about your bike...I'll bet if the owner of the bike whos pictures i posted put some name brand sticker on the side it would be a cool looking bike...but because you know it came from a department store its garbage. I would take his bike over alot of LBS bikes in a heartbeat..name brand or not...Hes an experianced rider who owned a 2500 dollar trek at one time but it got stolen..He just wanted something to ride and ended up with what you see and is very very pleased with the results. Hes had no rear linkage issues that some may think he would have...yea it uses bushings...so what..so do some 2-3000 dollar frames...Im not saying everyone run and buy a walmart or target bike..im just saying if thats what you have then thats fine..Some are better than others design wise and componant wise but do your research if you want one..The GENESIS line are very good quality for the money and except all of todays upgrades you can use on any brand name framed bike...After all you really pay for a name anyway dont you...everything else on the bike is from other manufacturers anyway.. GT doesnt make the shocks or derailleurs or wheels or tires or anything on the bike for that matter...its all about upgrading and it will be tommorow as well...But anyway getting tired of typing..Bottom line is if you have a department store bike dont be pushed away from it and enjoy it...No i dont reccommend doing huge jumps or going off steep drop offs but it will endure basic fun trail riding going over tree roots and some rocks and up/down hills in stock form. You can upgrade some models as you go and have fun with it..If you cant do the work then please go to a LBS to have the upgrades done for your safety..In closing i support all bike brands and level of riders and i love to modify things being a certified ASE mechanic and having drag raced for over 10 years.. Dont let the others discourage your fun.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I don't bash _people_ for riding department store bikes, but I will bash their bikes, gently, and encourage them to save up and buy something better to get a lot more fun out of their experience by riding something that is more durable and works better. some people want instant gratification and buy what they can afford _at that moment_, instead of saving their money to buy something that will last longer.

I also agree that there ought to be a part of the market that sells capable, durable bikes that are not so expensive, but is not as lousy as the junk from big box stores. unfortunately, cycling is to some degree (and perhaps always has been?) an activity for people with lots of disposable income. I wish people did not feel that they HAVE to resort to department store junk because bike shop offerings are 10x more expensive.

in the end, it's partially the fault of the consumer. because bike companies know there are so many customer who are willing to part with $8,000 for a bike, why would they bother making cheaper bikes? as capitalism goes, that's what's profitable so that's what they will do! if you don't like that, you're a commie. (just kidding.) be nice to people who make poor purchasing decisions. support your local BIKE CO-OP. start one if you don't have one. sell/give your old gear cheap to beginners. start your own tool collection and share your tools.

if you look at other areas of the market, you can buy a top-shelf bmx freestyle bike for under $1000. you can get a US-made chromoly bmx frame for under $400. most of the parts on a modern bmx bike are much less complex than road/mtb stuff, but I think a considerable part of the price is the fact that the average bmx customer is a 15 year old boy who has to save his allowance for months and beg his parents to give him money for a bike that they think is going to lead him to drugs and hooliganism. the average mtber has a "real" job and money to burn, at least occasionally.

in the end, I think that a mid-level bike from a "bike shop" brand is a much better value in the long run for most beginning riders. what's frustrating is the attitude that bike shops are "a rip off" and that the only difference between a Genesis bike and a Trek is a sticker on the frame. some people stubbornly insist that their turd bike is the best bike out there and cling to it just to prove the point. they spend much more money upgrading and maintaining the bike to keep it going than they would have spent if they just bought a better bike in the first place, then they give up and go back to couch surfing when they realize how wrong they have been. I have very little patience for this type.

so to ask another question- do you guys think any particular brand or model of bike is out there that is a better value that department store junk and not as expensive as everything else?


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

May I request paragraphs be used by all the participants of this thread? My eyes are bleeding.


Carry on.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

I can name quite a few bikes better "FACTORY" equipped but thats not the issue here..I for one would buy from an online store like bikesdirect.com...you can get a bike far far better equipped than even a department store bike and a name brand model at that for less money by far..A motobecane HT450 with all SRAM x4 componants and name brand cranks and forks that bikes like GT and TREK and specialized all have goes for $329.00 with front and rear disc brakes and aluminum stems and handlebars and seat posts like a mid level LBS store would sell but $200.00 less...My point is said person already owns a bike they got from what ever department store they bought it from and need some help with it and they get looked at as stupid on here..they can all benefit from lighter weight componants and a better drivetrain..like i say some of the frames are actually very good frames and can respond to upgrades over time like anything else can. Such as the case with a GENESIS V2100 build i posted earlier..No frame issues what so ever and this guy doesnt ride 2 mph over the terrain..hes an avid cyclist like i mentioned and loves this bike. I would bet he can keep up and do anything most intermediate riders can do on his department store frame...No its not an all out race bike but neither is a mid level LBS bike. They all have limits even modded.


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> The trolls are guys who bash someone for biking on anything less than a LBS bike or better..


No, trolls are the guys who don't own a mountain bike, but post in a mountain bike forum the merits of using bikes purchased from department stores (that most often come with a warning not to use them off road), as legitimate mountain bikes.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I think the OP is confused, is he complaining about bashing cheap bicycles or the cheap people who ride them?


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Department store bikes are junk. Plain and simple. They are all about looks and the OP has been duped. The frame is not the same as an LBS entry level bike, not even close. The moment you add complexity to it, like FS, you make it even worse.

These bikes have their place. For people who don't think of cycling as a sport or for little kids who need to get to school. Everyone else should keep their distance.

I am not mincing my words or trying to cover what I say with tulips so that someone won't give me negative rep. These "bikes" are horrible and it's our duty as an enthusiast forum to help educate those who don't know any better.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

HitmenOnlyInc said:


> No, trolls are the guys who don't own a mountain bike, but post in a mountain bike forum the merits of using bikes purchased from department stores (that most often come with a warning not to use them off road), as legitimate mountain bikes.


typical response of a hater...Ok.lets be fair about this..If you sold your bike tommorow then you shouldnt come on here and say anything about a bike because you dont have one right?..grow up. ive owned bikes..im 43 yrs old.. my last bike is pictured above...its no beast of a bike with top notch componants on it but it didnt need to be for my purpose and no $1000 dollar bike or higher will ever be needed to suit me and my basic riding needs..i can ride very aggressive being an X BMX racer back in the 80's riding an MCS spyder with full upgrades to it. Im no mountain bike pro nor do i or anyone else need to be to enjoy cycling..Ive learned alot on this forum as well as others..But to say im the troll for sticking up for those less fortunate is just a statement by a troll in it self...you sir have no merit with me nor will you ever. Go buy a set of $2500 wheels so you can have the best and bash anything less than. Have a nice day.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Silentfoe said:


> Department store bikes are junk. Plain and simple. They are all about looks and the OP has been duped. The frame is not the same as an LBS entry level bike, not even close. The moment you add complexity to it, like FS, you make it even worse.
> 
> These bikes have their place. For people who don't think of cycling as a sport or for little kids who need to get to school. Everyone else should keep their distance.
> 
> I am not mincing my words or trying to cover what I say with tulips so that someone won't give me negative rep. These "bikes" are horrible and it's our duty as an enthusiast forum to help educate those who don't know any better.


Please explain what makes them better..is it better T6061 aluminum? is it better welded from the same factories that make frames for other NAME brand bikes?..Please be more specific. Ok the componants are one notch better but still cheap bottom line componants im sure none of you would ever keep on a mid level bike if thats what you bought...So again whats so much better about them other than experienced assemblers assemble it and it has a brand name sticker on the frame? you can buy an un assemble bike and take it to a LBS to have it assembled and tuned..again i say money well spent for those who cant do it themselves. Would be less to buy the assembled bike and just let them go through it i would think. So school me on the subject..whats so much better?


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

daves4mtb said:


> If I had not reached my quota on this dreary Sunday, I would pos rep the bejeezus out of this post!


Already did. After about 2 run on sentences it just looks like blah, blah, blah.


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## byrot (Nov 1, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> But to say im the troll for sticking up for those less fortunate is just a statement by a troll in it self...you sir have no merit with me nor will you ever.


Hey kid, why do you feel you need to stick up "for those less fortunate"?


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> typical response of a hater...Ok.lets be fair about this..If you sold your bike tommorow then you shouldnt come on here and say anything about a bike because you dont have one right?..grow up. ive owned bikes..im 43 yrs old.. my last bike is pictured above...its no beast of a bike with top notch componants on it but it didnt need to be for my purpose and no $1000 dollar bike or higher will ever be needed to suit me and my basic riding needs..i can ride very aggressive being an X BMX racer back in the 80's riding an MCS spyder with full upgrades to it. Im no mountain bike pro nor do i or anyone else need to be to enjoy cycling..Ive learned alot on this forum as well as others..But to say im the troll for sticking up for those less fortunate is just a statement by a troll in it self...you sir have no merit with me nor will you ever. Go buy a set of $2500 wheels so you can have the best and bash anything less than. Have a nice day.


Wait as second...you started this thread apparently to be the guardian of those who own department store bikes and are "less fortunate". That being said, I cannot remember anyone here who got bashed for posting about his/her department store ride. In fact, outside of the occasional pic of poorly assembled bikes from said department stores, I don't remember seeing any threads before this one. You can certainly refresh my memory if you would like.

FWIW I don't give a rats ass what other people ride. If they ride and enjoy it then great! But don't come on here and try to say that Walmart bikes are as good (if they are upgraded) as name brand LBS bikes. You will not convince anyone here!! By doing so, you ARE being a troll, in that you initially and deliberately started a thread that you knew would insight a strong argument to the contrary.

By stating that I bash the people who have less than I is just ridiculous! Your ignorance is almost not worth acknowledging. I "sir" don't pretend to have anything but what I would call middle of the road as far as what I ride and what I have seen others here roll.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

HitmenOnlyInc...I never stated "YOU" personally have bashed anyone..Its in general the attitude most show when someone comes on this forum asking for help with a department store bike.. and you are correct with this thread starting argument and my knowing it would do so..I never come out and bluntly stated department store bikes are better..Im just pointing out that some of the models are built actually quite well compared to name brand bikes minus a few of the componants that can all be upgraded anyway and be made to perform just as good..as far as not seeing bashings for it ;you need to search around..its all over this forum. I know there are better frames and better componants on other bikes. Im not that ignorant. My gripe again for the 3rd or 4th time is about those who do bash the people for having one And again i never accused you personally for any bashing. You can see by the responses from alot that it would be a huge bashing if this thread was me asking about some mods for the bike in question instead of looking outside the box and helping with some answers besides..."its total garbage" or "that bike sucks" or "your stupid for spending money on that"...In reality its not the case with some of those bikes.,Im not saying run out and buy a NEXT power climber from walmart and put 1000 dollars into it...that would be stupid because that model is not that great design wise. but some are and have decent frames to build off of. People had alot of respect for schwinn and mongoose before the department store models started up...Sorry that the guy that brings in the shopping carts builds the bike also but that doesnt mean it cant be a reliable decent bike to ride and upgrade..Ill put a name brand sticker on my next build so i can fit in with the crowd..Not.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Take a look at the two guitars pictured above...

The one on the right is a Fender Statocaster. It is a real guitar, and will run you anywhere from a few hundred dollars for a base level guitar all the way up into the multi-thousands of dollars range, or more, depending on which model you are after.

The one on the left is a "guitar" from the toy dept. at WalMart©. It is a toy that looks sorta like the real thing.

Someone looking to buy their first guitar probably wouldn't know the difference, but, if they were to handle each one, and play them in a side-to-side comparison, they could probably feel/sense/differentiate the differences between the two.

Eric Clapton would surely know the difference, but then again, everyone looking to buy their first guitar probably doesn't, nor ever will, have what it takes to wring out all the music out of this piece of machinery the way Eric Clapton can. But I would venture to guess that if Eric Clapton were to give someone advice on buying their first guitar, he would probably steer them away from a WalMart© toy guitar to an entry level Fender or equivalent.

Can you play the WalMart© "guitar"? Sure, but the tone would be nothing like the Fender, not even close. It would probably go out of tune every time you played it. It would feel "cheesy" in your hands, while a real Stratocaster would feel exquisite.

It's kinda the same way with mountain bikes.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

i understand that fully..But take that good guitar and put cheesy pickups and strings on it then sell it for alot of money because its a Top name brand guitar...thats what i see the mountain bike industry is for mid level LBS bikes people always say are so much better.. I will admit some have very nice frames like GT but not always reachable by some...I can own just about any bike i want to be honest but i think its just rediculous at the cost..Who wouldnt want a 60,000 corvette over a 30,000 dollar mustang..fact is the mustang can be purchased and modded for less than the cost of the vette and blow its doors off in any category but cost


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> thats what i see the mountain bike industry is for mid level LBS bikes people always say are so much better..


sorry, but your entire premise is flawed. this is not true, it does not represent the whole picture, and your self-serving ignorance is not fooling anyone. continue to live in your fantasy world and the rest of us will continue to live in reality. if you want to ride flimsy, sub-par bikes, I hope you enjoy them. just don't drag other people into that situation, and better yet, don't recruit them to validate your paranoid delusion.

i know you think you're a persecuted minority who has "opened his eyes to the truth" about the bike industry and is just trying to help all us industry-blind sheep to the light, but... you're not. you're just another message board troll.


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## mattmatt300 (Jul 26, 2008)

Support small/local business.


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## trevor_b (Nov 21, 2012)

shawnt2012 said:


> Will NEVER buy a department store ever.
> 
> Secondly, I've owned PLENTY of box store bikes.


Oh, OK.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

•Frame- Hand Crafted Hydro Formed Heat Treated Aluminum
•Fork- Alloy Crown Genesis 100 mm travel
•Head Set- 1 1/8 Integrated
•Crank Set- Suntour XCT 22, 32 42 170mm
•Chain- KMC
•Front Derailleur- Shimano FD M-190
•Rear Derailleur- Shimano Altus RD-M310 
•Shifters- Shimano EF60 24 Speed
•Brakes- CS Mechanical Disc front and Rear
•Rims- 26" Alloy 36 hole 40mm V
•Hubs- Alloy with front CLIX safety QR
•Cassette- Shimano HG30 11-30 8 Speed
•Handle Bar-Mountain Riser 640mm Steel
•Saddle- Genesis Padded Foam
•Seat Post- Steel

These are specs on a walmart Genesis HD2600 hardtail for less than $300.00...you tell me whos blind and cant see they are being ripped off..Compare this to a GT aggressor or a diamond back or a specialized hardrock..Im not a fool...if you want to pay for a NAME then go ahead..more power to people like yourself...Wow has the exact same Suntour XCT crank as 500-600 dollar bikes...oh my can it be it has 100mm of shock travel also..OMG no way...Whats this. a shimano HG30 cassette..OMG this bike is just crap..you know what; so are the ones you pay triple the money for.Awwwww look even has cheap brand mechanical disc brakes like the rest of them along with low level trigger shifters from shimano..Amazing how some can see but are blind...yea its worth $350.00 more for a Plastic sticker with a popular name on it im sure (rolls eyes) Wanna know the best part...I would upgrade the steel parts like the bars and stem and seat post..maybe change out the pedals and look over the bike for safety and do some tuning and ill bet i can keep up or take any abuse yours takes and ride home with a smile on my face.. Im far from blind sir.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

69sharky: trolling again, we see. Now, follow the script, take the results of your informal troll-vey, head back over to bigboxbikes.com and proclaim once again what a bunch of biking elitist snob-jobs everyone here at mtbr is. Looking forward to seeing "Banned" under your username.


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## legking (Dec 8, 2012)

Why do I feel like I'm in the twilight zone?

Didn't I tell you guys before that it's all about the rider - not the bike?

I see time and time again, all these GEAR QUEERS with all the latest gadgets and $5K bikes, but guess what??!!

CAN'T RIDE FOR ****. So get out there and ride, work on skills and quit trying to bash someone because they ride a "lower end" bike.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)




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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

legking said:


> Why do I feel like I'm in the twilight zone?
> 
> Didn't I tell you guys before that it's all about the rider - not the bike?
> 
> ...


I see the powers relented on your ban. Too bad.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

ha! found the OP whining on bigboxbikes.com about all the "snobs" on giving him a hard time. how is this not trolling?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

banned for what malibu?...my opinion...i dont give 2 craps if i get banned just proves my point about the people on here who think they run the biking world becuase they spent more for a bike. Make sure the admins read everything so they can see im right in what im talking about people like you on here...Funny no insight from you just wagon train comments to be supported by your biking buddies.


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## mattmatt300 (Jul 26, 2008)




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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

So me commenting on helping those who have a cheaper bike (which was the reason for the thread) is a bannable offense is it? or makes me a troll? thats ignorant. no one asked for negative insight to the thread but it came anyway..Not my fault ive proven most of you are snobish with attitudes once a department store bike is even mentioned on here...take it for what it is...I wasnt a snob...was just a simple help the poor guy out thread...you guys make it a arguement..not me. If anyone should be banned it should be people like you who have negative comments..but you guys pay for membership so im sure that makes it alright.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> just wagon train comments to be supported by your biking buddies.


How are you so different with your "wagon train comments" supported by your buddies at bigboxbikes?

I don't bash people for what they choose to ride. The only time I would ever say anything regarding bike quality/durability/safety would be when it concerns one of the kids I coach on my student riding team. I know not every family we work with can afford high-end bikes.

What I will bash is folks like you who crawl out from under the bigboxbikes rock, click onto an enthusiasts site like mtbr.com and deliberately stir this chit up.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Not just obvious, but the very definition of trolling:


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> ha! found the OP whining on bigboxbikes.com about all the "snobs" on giving him a hard time. how is this not trolling?


there are those who were given everything, those who started with nothing and worked hard to get what they wanted, those who have fallen on hard times and those who just haven't tried hard enough..... it's hard sifting through the pill of poop for which the person behind the screen name came from... but I believe some of those who refer to others as snobs have fallen under the category ( and I mean no disrespect by any means) of either falling under hard times or haven't tried hard enough... and unfortunately, there is only one person to blame for most of those choices made.... but for those who call an unknown specific demographic snobs, are no better in my book by complaining about the choices one may have taken... I'm all about promoting, pushing and motivation someone to be better then what they think they are capable of, just try not to take down those with the big bad letters on the computer screen because of the choices one made...


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

no one from there is even hear but me as far as i know...i dont care if they are here or not and none of them have commented have they?..i havent seen anyone from that site here comment on this thread..Im doing this on my own..this started from another member finding a thread about being bashed for asking a simple question reguarding a bike that was bought from a department store..That site supports and helps anyone with any type of bike ..rather a an old rusted 20 year old department store bike or a big dollar bike...anyone that has a bike and wants help without all the trolling should visit it


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the posts evasive...was gonna do that but you did it for me :thumbs up


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## mattmatt300 (Jul 26, 2008)




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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

after all, it's the internet and " Just a combination of letters on the computer screen that make up words and sentience" ... people need to learn to lighten up and not let the big bad words on the computer screen hurt their feelings... and in the wost case scenario someone who's feeling get hurt might have an ill affect on those in the real world and take action to "relive" their anger


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Really, I don't care what you ride, enjoy. 




BTW- that frame, the bike (red one pictured) you had then sold... is it too big for you?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Im perfectly content and far from upset over any of this.. whatsSad is alot of you dont see the kid that has his department store bike as the future riders and supporters of mountain bikes in this world..Most of you think im pushing department store bike against owning anything else which is far from that case..Would i specifically go out and buy one just to build..probably not but people do and already have them and need help just as much as the next person..remember that next time someone posts a thread about whats a good upgrade for a pedal or handlebars or a cassette for his department store brand bike...Im done with this thread..my point is proven and i hope alot of people see it and go where they can get help without being judged.. happy safe biking to all


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

in-addition, and correct me if I'm wrong.. people make posts about a specific topic who are already one sided on the presented issue and when opposing opinions are given they are taken in a threatening way because the views don't match what the author wanted to hear in the 1st place in some sort of crude reasoning for validation, like seeking approval for choices already made


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

jugdish said:


> Really, I don't care what you ride, enjoy.
> 
> BTW- that frame, the bike (red one pictured) you had then sold... is it too big for you?


To be honest im not sure what the frame size was..Im 6ft and it was comfortable so i would think 19" maybe 20" frame..Was an old GT chrome moly steel frame.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> Im perfectly content and far from upset over any of this.. whatsSad is alot of you dont see the kid that has his department store bike as the future riders and supporters of mountain bikes in this world..Most of you think im pushing department store bike against owning anything else which is far from that case..Would i specifically go out and buy one just to build..probably not but people do and already have them and need help just as much as the next person..remember that next time someone posts a thread about whats a good upgrade for a pedal or handlebars or a cassette for his department store brand bike...Im done with this thread..my point is proven and i hope alot of people see it and go where they can get help without being judged.. happy safe biking to all


Come on man, don't go...I don't think you've "proven" who you are enough yet. :thumbsup:


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

I stand corrected on the sizing.

Ride what ya like and enjoy.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

No schwinn...Not looking for validation for anything but maybe people helping the less fortunate instead of chewing at them like pit bulls for what they have...I can own any bike i want ..im not starting this thread for me nor do i own any bike at this time like i already mentioned..Funny i post something about a bike and someone types i shouldnt be saying anything because i dont even own a bike.,..Wow..seriously?..look at the beggining of the thread and see where this thread was SUPPOSED to go and the comments that brought it to this point..its pretty sad actually...but to me its point proven about alot on this forum


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Come on man, don't go...I don't think you've "proven" who you are enough yet. :thumbsup:


Cant say the same for some whos commented.


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## beaumk37 (Jan 28, 2013)

only if i had time to spend more on researching bike....


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

enjoy


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## Hooligan63049 (Jul 14, 2012)

To be honest threads like this will never work to anyone's benefit. They will not change anybody's opinion at all. These topics are just a never ending depart and unfortunately there are many people on the Internet that do not have the capacity or maturity to actually debate. 

I did a lot of research when looking to start mountain biking. Quite a bit of that pertaining the Walmart bikes. It is true that there are a few capable frames for reasonable prices that come with all the other components(granted not the highest of quality) to actually ride it right off the bat. And the pacific bike company does have a very good customer service and warranty record. Many many counts of people calling with bent rims and getting whole new wheel sets for free, not even needing to send the old ones in.

Granted when I was researching Walmart bikes I was in the market to buy both me and my ex girlfriend bikes. Subsequently, finding out she cheated on me meant my personal bike budget had just doubled and I was able to check out better starting bikes! I am extremely happy to have been able to purchase my 2013 Trek Marlin.

But back to my original statement, threads started to either defend of bash department store bikes will always just end in argument with no side gaining any ground on the matter. The only problem I have is when someone posts about a problem they have or how excited they are to start riding their new bike, only to be attacked or have their choice in bike bashed to the point of them feeling belittled and not even wanting to ride at all. We should be a community the supports any new ride no matter what they decide to start out or continue riding. This sport should not be about the equipment, it is supposed to be about the joy and fun of getting out on the trail and riding! One poster described MTBR as an enthusiast site, so let's get these new riders enthused also!!


Thanks,
Brian.

Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

6sharky9 said:


> No schwinn...Not looking for validation for anything but maybe people helping the less fortunate instead of chewing at them like pit bulls for what they have...I can own any bike i want ..im not starting this thread for me nor do i own any bike at this time like i already mentioned..Funny i post something about a bike and someone types i shouldnt be saying anything because i dont even own a bike.,..Wow..seriously?..look at the beggining of the thread and see where this thread was SUPPOSED to go and the comments that brought it to this point..its pretty sad actually...but to me its point proven about alot on this forum


just letters on the computer screen. how you read the words might not be the same as how someone else reads them ... well I really hope someone looking for real advice read my 1st post to help them make an informed decision. You have to remember what you are writing about and to who. I read two subjects inter twined into on thread. 1) buying a Department store bike.. and 2) buying a department store bike then upgrading it... two different topics.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

shwinn8 said:


> there are those who were given everything, those who started with nothing and worked hard to get what they wanted, those who have fallen on hard times and those who just haven't tried hard enough..... it's hard sifting through the pill of poop for which the person behind the screen name came from... but I believe some of those who refer to others as snobs have fallen under the category ( and I mean no disrespect by any means) of either falling under hard times or haven't tried hard enough... and unfortunately, there is only one person to blame for most of those choices made.... but for those who call an unknown specific demographic snobs, are no better in my book by complaining about the choices one may have taken... I'm all about promoting, pushing and motivation someone to be better then what they think they are capable of, just try not to take down those with the big bad letters on the computer screen because of the choices one made...


Whu? Dude-put down the beer.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

God is great, beer is good and people are crazy


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## Bikemaya (Sep 24, 2012)

Just looking for trouble, obviously.

No one has given me the even slightest amount of **** for my 15+ year old USED department store bike. They encourage me to ride it. I have been. I got it for free, it got me back into mountain biking.

When asking advice about upgrading a month in, I was encouraged to save up for a decent bike instead of buying something for the $300 range (which is how much I had), and keep riding what I had. Awesome, awesome advice. I could have walked into a big box and bought an upgrade 3 months ago. But I have been saving. And now, instead of being stuck with an entry level LBS bike that is below my current riding ability, or a big box bike that I would destroy (I am a 'clyde' rider), I can afford a mid level bike that won't hold me back. It feels very, very rewarding. I am getting better at mountain biking, and despite living below the poverty line, I was able to scrape and save enough to piece together a dream bike that will take me through intermediate trails and could even be raced amateur.

I did my homework, I saved up, and I kept riding.

Big box store bikes come with a warning on them expressly saying they are TOYS and are NOT intended for off-road use. Net Wurker's analogy was perfect. Fender makes entry level guitars. I got one, it cost me less than $100. With an amp and case and strap I was out the door of the music store for less than $150. I played for a semester for class, realized it wasn't for me, and stashed it away. An actual musician picked it up and played it a few years later and said it was a decent little guitar. I told him how much I paid for it, and he said I got an awesome price for what it is. Better than any big box guitar for the same price he has used. You see, if you want something like, say, a GUITAR, you have a company that makes guitars, and has been making instruments exclusively for years, make one for you. They put a lot of research and knowledge into making that instrument, even the sub $100 ones. It you need a doctor, you hire one that went to school for 10 years and got their doctorate, not someone who played one on TV for 10 years. I don't care that the actor is cheaper. It isn't worth the fix-a-flat in my ass. Big box stores specialize in actors, things that LOOK like the real thing. They are very good actors, they have been doing it for a long time. They will fool you. But when it is time for surgery, the acting will get you in over your head and hurt very quickly.

Entry level bikes made by BIKE manufacturers are pretty much identical to each other. The same factories for their frames, same entry level components. But that's OK because they were still all make by people who KNOW BIKES. They come from the same factories with high quality standards as their $8,000 bikes. The design and technology trickles down from the best stuff into the entry level stuff. The same thing happens with computers, if that is a familiar area for you to compare to. It is what they do. It is what they have been doing for many, many years. Big Box bikes have their parts determined by the bottom line. People who don't know bikes will take factories that used to sell real bikes and turn them into actor factories. They cut cost to sell low. Cheaper metal. Less time spent on assembly. Remove features and parts deemed 'extra'. Replace as many parts with plastic as they can. Speed up the overall process. Reduce quality control. If there is a corner, they cut it. That is how they 'save you money'.IMHO, that is fine for something disposable. When I am on a vehicle whose failure can cause serious injury or death? It is NOT worth the $100 savings. Nor is it worth the headache and downtime of the more likely scenario of constant breaking and need for adjustment.

Weekend warrior who likes to go for a ride in the park with the kids? Great, a big box store bike is perfect for you! Have fun, and be prepared to spend $50-$100 a year per bike keeping it tuned up and ridable too. This goes for all bikes. Want to go cruising down the beach? Big Box stores have fun themed beach cruisers too, and the price is right for the occasional light use. People who like to huck themselves through forests, over rocks, dart through trees and cactus, jump off cliffs, rip down loose hills, and generally beat the **** outta their bikes at high speed? Get a real bike. Seriously. Don't test fate with this fisher price ****. Your life and body is worth it. And so is the sport, cause it is hella fun 

If your big box bike needs an upgrade, your whole bike needs one. Once you get to the point that you need more than a new saddle, grips, or tires, you have moved past every component on the bike. Have some pride and respect for yourself and ditch the toy.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Schwinn...The thread was supposed to be about helping the people with the cheaper bikes and i just showed what can be some to some of the better models offered from a department store..Never intended it to be an arguement over such..yea i went to another forum that actually supports the department store bike owners and help them without any negative comments for owning one..I knew it would happen and it did..big deal..But you can see most of the comments with exception to a few saw the point i was making and left it at that and moved on..Some not so much..I dont really care what they think...if you have disposable money like that then its all good if not then you work with what you got like alot do..I can buy a $2500 dollar mountain bike or more if i wanted but i dont see it being worth that and that is just my opinion..Ive no quarells with anyone that does think its worth it...i just want all bikers supported for the sake of cycling and not bashed for having what they have..Im going to do a build and you know what; it just may consist of a department store bike even though i can afford better. Ive researched also and i think i can get a somewhat mid level bike for half the money and then have a better one with even more upgrades.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm pretty sure your comment isn't aimed directly at me


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Bikemaya..No one said the bikes are used for serious biking on a dangerous level...fact is even the entry level LBS have the same low level componants on it...so if you think becuase you buy a LBS bike you can go jump off cliffs and jump 15ft in the air you are the one at risk going to see that doctor. For a normal trail with some roots and a few rock here and there the bikes are more than capable and even more so with a few upgrades..To say if a bike needs an upgrade that the whole bike needs upgrading is just not accurate in my opinion..I rode a trail with a lesser capable bike in which it didnt come with a do not ride off road sticker...Some actually do but not all of them do..the really really low quality bike intended for kids will say that...more of the adult targeted bikes are of better quality these days..I agree with alot you say but not with all of it...Again im not pushing the sales of department store bikes for serious all out skilled mountain biking..Anyone can get hurt on a good bike doing stupid things beyond riding ability..I rode harder than a mommy and daddy riding in the park with the kids on a bike from a department store and maybe people would say i was lucky but the bike held up fine with proper assembly and tuning. If a department store bike is all you have then its not really all that bad for most models and like a say a few upgrades make a huge difference on them..so if thats all you got and you want some help with repairing it or making some upgrades then why is it a hassel for most to get that help on here?..Im curious to know what bike you ended up with..What did you end up buying that you saved up for?


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## ghettocop (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh my goodness this thread is terrible.


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

ghettocop said:


> Oh my goodness this thread is terrible.


Yes, it really is.

One thing that strikes me as interesting... there's multiple threads over there bashing this site, but I've yet to see anyone create a thread [or even mention] BBB unless prompted by one of the periodic trolls.

Bottom line: if you come to a site for enthusiasts and want someone to drool over your bike, post a moots or some other uber-high end bike. If you want someone to drool over a heavily re-done wallybike here, you might not get the reception you want.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Who posted the pics to make someone drool?..just curious where you get that from..and whats so hard to see about some not liking it here..you can obviously see the results for even mentioning a department store bike...How much more clear does one have to be? Not all the mebers of the other site ride just department store bikes...some have high end expensive builds as well but not opposed to helping someone that doesnt have one..No one there reccommend only buying the cheap bikes..they actually condone a LBS bike when one can afford it .I even pushed getting something from a bike outlet online instead but realized what the site was about..It was about supporting EVERYBODY that rides or wants to ride at any financial level. But since we all like the looks of the bike ill post a new pic of it:thumbsup:


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm curious to the mentality of people making threads knowing what the out come of the thread will be well in advance then complaining about the views others have knowing well before hand that those views would be expressed then getting feeling hurt caused by those views...


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

> The thread was supposed to be about helping the people with the cheaper bikes and i just showed what can be some to some of the better models offered from a department store.


to put things in perspective if you can see it how I'm reading it and I'm sure others as well, the title, " Department store bike bashing" Isn't a good title to entice those who your over all goal of the thread is aimed at. The internet and public forums is like a billboard on the side of a highway, you have sell it!


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Im not hurt shwinn..not in the least..its pretty simple why i started the thread and not many actually can see through the negative comments in it...I dont recall seeing anywhere before i signed up on here that department store bikes are forbidden and its just about high dollar bikes. But reaction to the low end bikes tell a big story on here..I dont think i need to explain it any further..Im quite a sane person with a colledge education and a certified ASE automotive mechanic whos riden bikes and raced real cars and motorcycles and race RC cars as a hobby (1/8 scale nitro buggy)..Its not just an opinion that not all department store bikes are that bad and if you happen to have one of those models they are just as good and any LBS bike for much less. Its a fact..no one has to believe in it and im not making anyone do that...but to those who this thread concerns in the real world they know they dont have to be picked on for riding what they can afford.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Nope, I guess you don't see how your message is being interpreted by the receiver.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

My opening paragraph on the first page described the the selling point of the title pretty well i thought...it was about people bashing others for riding low end bikes..the rest of this thread pretty much sums up the proof it exsists heavily on here..thats all i wanted to prove and ive done that.


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## mattmatt300 (Jul 26, 2008)

6sharky9 said:


> Im not hurt shwinn..not in the least..its pretty simple why i started the thread and not many actually can see through the negative comments in it...I dont recall seeing anywhere before i signed up on here that department store bikes are forbidden and its just about high dollar bikes. But reaction to the low end bikes tell a big story on here..I dont think i need to explain it any further..Im quite a sane person with a colledge education and a certified ASE automotive mechanic whos riden bikes and raced real cars and motorcycles and race RC cars as a hobby (1/8 scale nitro buggy)..Its not just an opinion that not all department store bikes are that bad and if you happen to have one of those models they are just as good and any LBS bike for much less. Its a fact..no one has to believe in it and im not making anyone do that...but to those who this thread concerns in the real world they know they dont have to be picked on for riding what they can afford.


What "colleDge" did you go to?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Im not saying everyone bashes and some do actually help but the bashing overwhelms the help 50 to 1 in my opinion on anything pertaining to a department store bike.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

so you had already anticipated the outcome of the thread prior to posting?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

mattmatt300 said:


> What "colleDge" did you go to?


never was great at spelling and its late for me im tired...let me guess a joke about spelling?..and i went to UM (university of miami)


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> so you had already anticipated the outcome of the thread prior to posting?


The answer to that question is the same as the answer to this question: Did you anticipate the answer of your question prior to posting?

We have all fed the troll. And he's a hungrier troll than most.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> so you had already anticipated the outcome of the thread prior to posting?


To an extent ;yes i did..i expected alot of reactions due to the nature of the subject in which is my point...Had i posted the pics and said how do you guys like the build (without stating it was a department store bike ) i may have gotten different answers...but typically because it is a department store bike i got what was expected i suppose.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

mattmatt300 said:


> What "colleDge" did you go to?


Clearly he went to University of "shwinn". I'm not sure which is funnier, the fact he doesn't own a bike or that he pulled out the I raced bmx in the 80s.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

CDMC said:


> Clearly he went to University of "shwinn". I'm not sure which is funnier, the fact he doesn't own a bike or that he pulled out the I raced bmx in the 80s.


Obviously didnt see the meaning to that bmx thing..ill just leave it be and let those who do understand see yet another failed attempt on me for the thread. -1 for the troll


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

6sharky9 said:


> To an extent ;yes i did..i expected alot of reactions due to the nature of the subject in which is my point...Had i posted the pics and said how do you guys like the build (without stating it was a department store bike ) i may have gotten different answers...but typically because it is a department store bike i got what was expected i suppose.


Actually, I'd be willing to wager it was the attitude with which you made your first post that made this thread the way it turned out.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

It wasnt said in a threatning manner... alittle attitude well yes maybe so... but sorry but i dont think i went overboard with anything in my first paragraph..the reactions were typically the same as just someone coming to ask for advice or help pertaining to a department store bike..let me ask you this..if you didnt know the bike was built on a department store frame what would you say about the bike build? and be honest please..Ok its not all top line componants on it and its not even close but it beats out alot of bike 5 times the cost and no issues with the frame or rear suspension what so ever according to the owner...not even exccess flex from the rear arms or bad bushing wear..the geometry of that bike is extremely similar to bikes costing thousands of dollars...maybe its a diamond in the ruff for department store bikes but most will never know being so skeptical of them...I would ride that mans bike on any trail with any high end bike anyday short of extreme riding with huge drop offs and such..I dont ride that aggressive anyway in my older age.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Why do the people that say, "that's it, I'm done with this thread" never actually leave? And it also seems..your "colledge" education..stopped before you..passed freshman comp..



6sharky9 said:


> Im not hurt shwinn..not in the least..its pretty simple why i started the thread and not many actually can see through the negative comments in it...I dont recall seeing anywhere before i signed up on here that department store bikes are forbidden and its just about high dollar bikes. But reaction to the low end bikes tell a big story on here..I dont think i need to explain it any further..Im quite a sane person with a colledge education and a certified ASE automotive mechanic whos riden bikes and raced real cars and motorcycles and race RC cars as a hobby (1/8 scale nitro buggy)..Its not just an opinion that not all department store bikes are that bad and if you happen to have one of those models they are just as good and any LBS bike for much less. Its a fact..no one has to believe in it and im not making anyone do that...but to those who this thread concerns in the real world they know they dont have to be picked on for riding what they can afford.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Why do the people that say, "that's it, I'm done with this thread" never actually leave? And it also seems..your "colledge" education..stopped before you..passed freshman comp..


Youre free to actually not read the thread if you dont like it..but glad to see the interest bring you back.:thumbsup:


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

unsubscribing in 3...2...


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

:thumbsup:Awesome


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## Bikemaya (Sep 24, 2012)

Honestly, it is worth relinking for those who didn't pull it from my wall-o-text;

Fix-a-flat butt.

I really think it sums up this thread quite nicely


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> as a bike shop employee for the last few years, I have seen too many department store bikes with bent, shattered, and maladjusted parts to think any of them are safe for riding trails. if you can get a Wallyworld bike to last you more than a dozen actual rides, consider yourself very lucky. those bikes are fine for riding bike paths and neighborhood cruises, but they are not safe for actual trail riding.
> 
> some of them are getting better, but for the average consumer, the cost and time it takes to get it working properly in the first place, then upgrade it to decent parts is not worth it. most people don't want to spend every other week putting new wheels, a new fork, replacing headsets, cranks, etc, when they could have just spent more money to get a bike that is decent in the first place. if that's your thing, go for it. it sounds like a waste of my time when I could be riding.
> 
> a polished turd is still a turd.


As a bike shop employee, you probably see a lot of bikes, at various price points, whose owners don't have a clue about how to maintain a mechanical device ... YES ?

*The OP made a good point IMHO ... It's not about the bike ... It's about the ride.*

Only a snob looking to justify their purchase (price means nothing) would talk down upon someone else's ride.

Steak versus Hamburger ... Lobster versus fishsticks ... Both are considered food, and if you're hungry for a ride WTF does it matter if you're not the one riding/eating it


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> I don't bash _people_ for riding department store bikes, but I will bash their bikes, gently, and encourage them to save up and buy something better to get a lot more fun out of their experience by riding something that is more durable and works better. some people want instant gratification and buy what they can afford _at that moment_, instead of saving their money to buy something that will last longer.
> 
> I also agree that there ought to be a part of the market that sells capable, durable bikes that are not so expensive, but is not as lousy as the junk from big box stores. unfortunately, cycling is to some degree (and perhaps always has been?) an activity for people with lots of disposable income. I wish people did not feel that they HAVE to resort to department store junk because bike shop offerings are 10x more expensive.
> 
> ...


I hear your point, but also hear the point being made for those who can't or won't justify spending more on a bike than they do for their car.

How long does it take to break $8000 worth of dept. store bikes if all you are into is a bit of fitness, and are not on a daily binge of trying to become suicidally famous ?

IMO,
The entry level rider can be more quickly turned off by those within the biking community, than they can buy making a bad purchasing decision that works until they improve, or switch to another activity.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

legking said:


> Why do I feel like I'm in the twilight zone?
> 
> Didn't I tell you guys before that it's all about the rider - not the bike?
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Thats an awesome statement made by legking..Im no expert rider and never will be but when i did have a lower end bike and rode in north miami its funny how my riding skills as a kid came back to me and i was able to keep up with some high end bikes..The bike was heavy so it was a bit of a struggle but i did it..I didnt mention the comments made to me at the end of some of the trails how they were surpised the bike handled it all without any breakage or mishaps.I wont lie and say the front shock was good (i did bottom out a couple times being 200lbs) or the rear spring and suspension design didnt cause alot of pedal bob but i laugh looking back on it now how my $135.00 low end bike did everything a $1500 bike did. The bike was assembled poorly and i did basicly disassemble the whole thing and re assemble it for peace of mind and had to adjust the brakes (pads werent centered and too low) and derailleurs to shift properly. The Valve stem werent centered in the wheels properly..just alot was wrong with it...Only mod i had was a $10.00 aluminum "straight" seat post i bought from a LBS and removed all the reflectors....could i have done more to make it better..of course i could..handlebars and pedals and shifters and derailleurs and crankset and seat and grips and a cassette instead of a cheap Falcon 7spd free wheel..Today some of the models at department stores make what i had look bad even more so and thats a good thing..Name brand series componants are being used now and for half the money or less..Shimano Altus derailleurs and EF style shimano trigger shifters and HG30 cassettes and the same underrated mechanical disc brake systems the "QUALITY" bikes have on them.. I love GT bikes but wasnt pleased at what it had on it for the money and decided against buying one. If those componants are good on a GT or a another top name brand bike because it was bought at a bike shop then they are good on a department store bike providing its assembled properly and tuned properly with a decent frame just like any other bike...Yes i would spend the extra money to have a bike shop go through the bike if i didnt have the know how or tools to do it myself.(again money well spent)..but was that GT frame worth $500 to me considering i would upgrade everything on the bike to a true mid level bike even if it was piece by piece or as parts failed over time....hell no. Id rather build a bike myself and buy a frame for much less or spend alot less to serve my purpose in which is to ride and have fun...not have a whos pocket book is bigger or spent the most on the bike contest to try to impress someone at the trails..ill bet in most cases the guy whos got the most expensive bike couldnt win a race to save his life.Just ride what you got and upgrade as you feel the need or have to...I support any level bike anyone has and rides for the fun..If youre a serious racer then i understand your need for more expensive quality bikes but for us basic flat trail riders just out for a weekend ride we dont need that stuff...Stop hating and just ride your ride...see ya at the end of the trail if i dont beat you to it first on my low end upgraded bike.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

This isnt my bike but its the exact bike i had that im refering to about my riding at oleta river park in north miami..color and all. $135.00 Mongoose XR75..yes those are aluminum pedals and not plastic..they did install something with some quality on it.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> Schwinn...The thread was supposed to be about helping the people with the cheaper bikes and i just showed what can be some to some of the better models offered from a department store.


then why is it called "Department store bike bashing," instead of "Encouraging people with department store bikes?" and why did you go out of your way to bait the readers on mtbr into an argument and then mock this forum on the BBB forum?

You have a chip on your shoulder because you think the world owes you everything for cheap and you post on forums like this to validate your self-fulfilling prophecy that you are a persecuted minority.

in other words: troll.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Geez sharky you ever sleep? Your molars must be ground down to stubs by now. 

One point you make that I actually agree with is that major manufactures, and therefore dedicated local bike shops have somewhat dropped the ball as far as offering decent quality starter bikes. It wasn't so long ago that someone toying with the idea of mountain biking could walk into their lbs, plop down 3 or 4 hundred bucks and hit some beginner trails with a bike that if nothing else was mechanically safe.

It almost seems like they (Trek, Schwinn etc.) grew weary of trying to convince people that their starter bikes were better than the toys at the big boxes and said "fug it" and decided to hand the entry level market to the discount stores and concentrate on the more profitable high end market. For instance I was recently looking at the entry level Trek mtb and was pretty disappointed that for over $400 you get a crappy off brand _freewheel_ rear hub guaranteed to bend an axle the first time it hits a trail.

I do wish companies would invest a little more into the entry level market because I believe it can plant seeds that eventually turn people into enthusiasts which is good for local bike shops, but I can see why they don't because over the years customers have essentially demanded cheap glitzy crap.

BTW that Mongoose pictured above is a prime example of cheap glitzy crap.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

6sharky9 said:


> HitmenOnlyInc...I never stated "YOU" personally have bashed anyone..Its in general the attitude most show when someone comes on this forum asking for help with a department store bike.. and you are correct with this thread starting argument and my knowing it would do so..I never come out and bluntly stated department store bikes are better..Im just pointing out that some of the models are built actually quite well compared to name brand bikes minus a few of the componants that can all be upgraded anyway and be made to perform just as good..as far as not seeing bashings for it ;you need to search around..its all over this forum. I know there are better frames and better componants on other bikes. Im not that ignorant. My gripe again for the 3rd or 4th time is about those who do bash the people for having one And again i never accused you personally for any bashing. You can see by the responses from alot that it would be a huge bashing if this thread was me asking about some mods for the bike in question instead of looking outside the box and helping with some answers besides..."its total garbage" or "that bike sucks" or "your stupid for spending money on that"...In reality its not the case with some of those bikes.,Im not saying run out and buy a NEXT power climber from walmart and put 1000 dollars into it...that would be stupid because that model is not that great design wise. but some are and have decent frames to build off of. People had alot of respect for schwinn and mongoose before the department store models started up...Sorry that the guy that brings in the shopping carts builds the bike also but that doesnt mean it cant be a reliable decent bike to ride and upgrade..Ill put a name brand sticker on my next build so i can fit in with the crowd..Not.


 As long as it works for you and your happy with it thats all that counts in your situation..:thumbsup:


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

trevor_b said:


> Oh, OK.


Sorry it wasn't properly worded for you, want to pick it apart some more?

After 5 pages of this garbage...

OP is a troll plain and simple. He came in here looking for an argument and tried to seek justice for his Wally mart bike that some guy probably laughed at on the trail last week.

You claim to be 43 years old, but you are acting like a 15 year old boy with a sour freaking attitude.

Then for someone to FIND you on another site gloating about the trash talking you are doing here? We don't need people like you here if that is the way you will go about things

Grow the F' up. Ride your bike.


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> My opening paragraph on the first page described the the selling point of the title pretty well i thought...it was about people bashing others for riding low end bikes..the rest of this thread pretty much sums up the proof it exsists heavily on here..thats all i wanted to prove and ive done that.


No, you have not!

You started this thread trying to make the point that one could upgrade a department store bike to a point that made it on par with entry level LBS bikes. What ensued was people giving all the reasons NOT to upgrade such a bike. You took this as "bashing."

What did NOT happen: you did NOT post up a pic of your upgraded Walmart bike expounding all of its virtues and then proceed to tell us all how it's just as good as all of our 5k+ rides (because no one hear would be caught dead on something less). Then we all proceeded to tell you what a piece of crap your bike was and that you shouldn't even be riding at all!

THAT would be "bashing." But none of that happened. You continually say we are bashing but we are not. We simply state that your argument is flawed.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

6sharky9 said:


> Obviously didnt see the meaning to that bmx thing..ill just leave it be and let those who do understand see yet another failed attempt on me for the thread. -1 for the troll


Just so everyone is clear about the original poster, here is what he posted on another site:

"You all should get a kick out of this thread i started on MTBR then ..its getting better already" www.bigboxbikes.com • View topic - Another bashing on MTBR

We have an attention seeking troll who doesn't own a bike and spends his time complaining about MTBR. (Read a few threats on the site the OP came from to see the ongoing complaints about MTBR; apparently we are all a bunch of elitist a-holes.)


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## Highwaystreets (Apr 3, 2006)

Solid thread... In before the lock!

To the OP. you obviously came here to start a fight, you already had a preconceived notion of MTBR before you posted. I honestly think the MTBR community is very helpful and welcoming of everyone who rides or who has a passion.

You were not looking for advice and were here to simply state how elitist we were and un accepting of anyone who couldn't buy a a bike from an LBS.

I have a buddy who is just getting into biking. He has looked at the BBS bikes and comes to me for advice. I steer him away from those and have got him looking at used and I think most around here will agree that is a smarter choice. 

IF you ever get a bike again, get whatever you like and maybe don't come back here. You are only here to start fights while the rest of us are here to share our passion for riding.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Man, so much negativity. How about since this is a forum about mountain biking, we put some mountain bikes in it? How about it OP...post your rides, your trails, or even better you on your bike on your trails?

I'm a bit baffled by your claims because I've been on MTBR off and on for years, and for many of those I was riding this:

~1995 Gary Fisher Aquila (sh!tty elastomer fork, STXRC components)
Not ONCE did I have anyone "bash" my bike, despite the fact that it cost me $180 used. That's actually quite a bit less than some "department store" bikes. Everyone here on MTBR was welcoming and helpful when I had questions about upgrading.










After riding that, I bought a BikesDirect.com bike, the trusty ole Windsor Cliff 29er Pro:

$600, I really broke the bank at the time (new house, baby, etc.), but to many folks I'm sure it was a POS. But again, nobody ever said a negative thing, not here on MTBR, nor the group of 10 people or so I rode with (almost all on nice FS bikes, BTW).









About the only thing that could be construed as negative comments were suggestions as I was posting threads about upgrading my old Fisher. And rightly so, they stated that the cost of new parts to upgrade my aging steed would be the same or higher than selling the bike and buying a newer $400+ bike. Again, that's just helpful criticism, whether you agree with that opinion or not.

Anyone else think that the experience some people have on this site is a result of their attitude? Case in point: this thread. And it's the same in the rest of life. Radiate a positive attitude and you're more likely to encounter (and cause) positive experiences. If you approach life with a sh!t attitude, a frown on your face, and a chip on your shoulder that's exactly what the world is going to return to you.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

shawnt2012 said:


> Sorry it wasn't properly worded for you, want to pick it apart some more?
> 
> After 5 pages of this garbage...
> 
> ...


He doesn't even own a bike. The bike pictured belongs to a friend. You'll have to read the thread more carefully because if you knew those two bits of info. you'd really be able to take the piss out of him.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> ~1995 Gary Fisher Aquila (sh!tty elastomer fork, STXRC components)
> Not ONCE did I have anyone "bash" my bike, despite the fact that it cost me $180 used.


:thumbsup: Now *that* is the way to get in to mountain biking on the cheap. I wouldn't mind riding it, nor sinking a few bucks into some select upgrades.


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## chef7734 (May 4, 2011)

I purchased a walmart mongoose for my 13 year old daughter for Christmas. If she continues to ride, i will purchase a better bike for her later. It is good enough to be ridden on the dirt road in nc by their house. I wanted to make sure she would stick with riding before spending a lot of money. 

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

chef7734 said:


> I purchased a walmart mongoose for my 13 year old daughter for Christmas. If she continues to ride, i will purchase a better bike for her later. It is good enough to be ridden on the dirt road in nc by their house. I wanted to make sure she would stick with riding before spending a lot of money.
> 
> Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2


Precisely what those bikes are made for! When/if she takes an even bigger interest in the sport, I doubt you will upgrade said Mongoose over purchasing a ride made for the the more harsh conditions which inevitably come with increased interest.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

ooof. Bragging about being a troll is super lame.


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

bluestatevirgin said:


> He doesn't even own a bike. The bike pictured belongs to a friend. You'll have to read the thread more carefully because if you knew those two bits of info. you'd really be able to take the piss out of him.


I just gave up reading after a couple rants . Now with that info...makes the entire thread useless and deletable.

Chef; I completely agree with that. I know when my daughter wants her first bike, I won't be going to my LBS and spending $200+ on some Trek mystic . It sounds so hypocritical, but for the people whom have children it just makes sense. When she grows out of that one and wants to continue riding ( for fun or for sport...daddy will try not to influence to much  ) then a I will purchase a quality bike.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

This thread was a pretty good waste of time.

Is Wally World considered a department store? I don't think it is, and I will bash the hell out of their bikes now that I know better.
The OP did say that he's tired of people bashing someone on a dept store bike. I have not seen anyone get bashed for their particular bike, just the stores that sell them.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

The funny thing is, you guys are bashing mtb's on a mtb site, how ironic.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

6sharky9 said:


> Again, Everyone wants to upgrade at some point..What makes a 500-600 dollar LBS bike any better with low grade bottom of the line SR suntour xct (V2 V3 or V4) shocks that weigh 5.5 lbs and SR suntour XCC or XCT (heavy square taper) cranks and mechanical brakes that get less than positive reviews like promax or tektro for some odd reason..I'll grant the parts are somewhat of an upgrade but not to the tune of 200 or even 400 dollars more...Most change out the componants i mentioned anyways to better equiptment...So in all i paid 100 to 125 more for a bike than it should be sold for because someone put it together with some experiance but in reality since most the parts would be changed anyway i paid 500- to 600 dollars for a frame from a name brand company..I just dont buy it. Mybe just a more expensive turd?


What makes a $500 bike shop bike better is the bike shop?

Bike Shop:

They will adjust and set it up for you before you buy it, they will check the wheel tension and retension them before you buy it, they will make sure that the bearings are in the right way before you buy it, they will stock it in varying sizes and if they don't have the size you want they will either order one or find one for you, they will remove it immediately if there is a recall and more than likely contact you after the fact to inform you if there was a recall after you purchased it. During the buying process they will swap parts you want before the fact, some will offer a discount on that, they will make sure the bike fits you prior to you riding out the door. Once you roll out the door they will do adjustments for you after everything has settled in, they may even offer adjustments for a year after the sale. They will sponsor races, they will sponsor trail building, they will sponsor trail maintenance days, they will have group rides and they will supply you with a hello, hang out space, cool bling to look at and cool people to meet and join up with.

Walmart:

They will have a similar bike built by the guy that assembled the barbecues. They will not check the wheel tension for you (which you better seriously do with any bigboxstore bike. They will not make sure it is assembled correctly. They will not deal with any recall information. They will stock 1 size, great if you are between 5'7" and 5'10" not so good if you fall out of that size range. During the buying process you are on your own. They will not sponsor ****. They will not contribute to the cycling community at all. They will not tune up your bike for free, they will not repair your bike and they will not do jack to help you in any other means than let you return your bike for a new one.

This is what you guys from that other website don't ever seem to get. People aren't bashing the bikes but the concept that a bike from walmart is the same as a bike for a bike shop. It is, it is just all the extra stuff that you get from the bike shop that you don't get from the bike shop that makes your bike a piece of ****. Walmart sells bikes that probably more often than not turn people off mountain biking more than on to. They contribute nothing to the community and they don't provide any means of helping people that bought the bike to get it repaired at rates commensurate to what they paid.

I banned the previous users from bigboxbikes or whatever because they never could get this through their heads either. It isn't elitist to support your community. Big box companies don't support their communities so even if you are only spending $199.99 on a bike that is $199.99 less dollars that isn't going to local business or even large corporations that support cycling in their communities. Walmart/kmart/big boxes don't support their local cycling communities much less the local community at large.

If you don't want to be slammed/looked down upon then it would be wise to understand that this is not about brand or stickers on the DT, it is about attitude towards the cycling community at large.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Comprehension is the key to understanding...alot of you look past the point and make it out to be something it isnt...Once again ill state the thread was about helping the less fortunate instead of bashing them for what they have; which in some cases is a department store bike...the question might be on how fix his bike or make some small simple upgrades and as in most cases it becomes a thread bashinhg the bike he/shes got..if you search you will many simple questions turn into making someone feel stupid for having what they have bike wise..I havent singled out any one person for being a basher but the thread shows alot of responses that one could believe those same people would bash someone and not help them just because of the bike they own...guess i can clear up again that i dont CURRENTLY own a bike..Ive owned bikes and ive ridden trails...ive raced BMX back in the 80s...no im not new to bikes or cycling but for someone to use the fact i dont have one at this time (meaning why am i even hear talking about bikes) is just plain ignorant to meaning of the thread...I moved so i sold my last bike..sorry this turns some people bowels.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Rockcrusher just gave you a detailed explanation of where everybody's passion is coming from. Your response is the one that is lacking in comprehension.

Thanks for playing and enjoy whatever it is you enjoy to do.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

mack_turtle said:


> then why is it called "Department store bike bashing," instead of "Encouraging people with department store bikes?" and why did you go out of your way to bait the readers on mtbr into an argument and then mock this forum on the BBB forum?
> 
> You have a chip on your shoulder because you think the world owes you everything for cheap and you post on forums like this to validate your self-fulfilling prophecy that you are a persecuted minority.
> 
> in other words: troll.


Its called that because thats what people get on here for owning one or asking for help with one..cant make it more clear and im far from a troll..youll find them on here in though if you closely. Im not a persecuted minority at all...I can own what ever bike i want when i want it...yes ive owned a department store bike but never had to come on here and ask for help with it so youre completely wrong about that..I guess it seems pointless to try to get most of you to understand what the thread is about..you can see in some reponses those who understood it and those who just troll around trying to be funny or those who just simple dont get it at all.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

rockcrusher said:


> I banned the previous users from bigboxbikes or whatever because they never could get this through their heads either. It isn't elitist to support your community. Big box companies don't support their communities so even if you are only spending $199.99 on a bike that is $199.99 less dollars that isn't going to local business or even large corporations that support cycling in their communities. Walmart/kmart/big boxes don't support their local cycling communities much less the local community at large.


Am I reading this correctly, you banned members just becasue they supported big box bikes? I really hope I"m wrong.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

SV11 said:


> Am I reading this correctly, you banned members just becasue they supported big box bikes? I really hope I"m wrong.


Pretty sure he left out the part where there was a huge fight with name callin', e stalking and molotov cocktails thrown.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

girlonbike said:


> Pretty sure he left out the part where there was a huge fight with name callin', e stalking and molotov cocktails thrown.


Gotchya, thanks.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

SV11 said:


> Am I reading this correctly, you banned members just becasue they supported big box bikes? I really hope I"m wrong.


Thats actually what i was thinking i read myself...What i got from that was unless you support your local bike shop and support this forums advertisement buy buying from them in which case this Forum gets money from when people buy from them and the real kicker ; ride a department store bike you will be banned..Oh wait paying members also have some say on here...guess some of those TROLLS reported the thread.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

I never ordered any bike related items from the Internet


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> Thats actually what i was thinking i read myself...What i got from that was unless you support your local bike shop and support this forums advertisement buy buying from them in which case this Forum gets money from when people buy from them and the real kicker ; ride a department store bike you will be banned..Oh wait paying members also have some say on here...guess some of those TROLLS reported the thread.


Seriously Sharky,
You did come here for a reason, and that's very obvious to all who are reading this.

And while it can be argued that a bit of elitism exists within anyone, about any subject ... Most of what I have read here about your topic is often centered on offering advise about how to best use one's money.

The typical response to those seeking a WalMart, or equivalent bike, is to look for a used bike in the same price range, and this is often follwed with advice about used bikes, IF the OP keeps the thread discussion going.

Yet in both scenario's ... The bottom line is, make sure you check it out/get it checked out, if you're not comfortable doing the maintenance yourself.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

6sharky9 said:


> Comprehension is the key to understanding...alot of you look past the point and make it out to be something it isnt...Once again ill state the thread was about helping the less fortunate instead of bashing them for what they have; which in some cases is a department store bike...the question might be on how fix his bike or make some small simple upgrades and as in most cases it becomes a thread bashinhg the bike he/shes got..if you search you will many simple questions turn into making someone feel stupid for having what they have bike wise..I havent singled out any one person for being a basher but the thread shows alot of responses that one could believe those same people would bash someone and not help them just because of the bike they own...guess i can clear up again that i dont CURRENTLY own a bike..Ive owned bikes and ive ridden trails...ive raced BMX back in the 80s...no im not new to bikes or cycling but for someone to use the fact i dont have one at this time (meaning why am i even hear talking about bikes) is just plain ignorant to meaning of the thread...I moved so i sold my last bike..sorry this turns some people bowels.


I think you are mistaking bashing at MTBR for overzealousness on the behalf of a few department store bike advocates. All too often I see a thread about upgrading an old vintage bike, a department store bike or just a lower end bike go from being fairly productive to excessively defensive when someone steps in to defend the OP and their request for information on how to improve their bikes.

The general comments tend to trend toward save your dollars and buy a bike that is suited for mountain biking (as almost all bigboxstore bikes have large disclaimers regarding their suitability for mountain biking off road which is not) and to not waste their time, energy and money on upgrading a bike that isn't suited for the desired purpose as stated by the manufacturer.

Then someone jumps in and gets all defensive of their choices, or others choices by proxy, to ride the bike off road and how it is amazing and how they will rip your legs off etc. This kind of attack tends to reduce the helpful comments but in almost every case I have been alerted to here at MTBR someone does this vs. some other "brand advocate" coming in and attacking first.

If the advice to upgrade to a bike that is recommended for mountain biking over a bike that isn't on a mountain biking forum makes the user feel stupid, then that really isn't bashing either.

Finally there is a fine line between bashing and not listening. Just because you ask for advice and then don't like the advice given it doesn't mean you are being ganged up on. The failure is to listen to the advice and decide whether to accept it or not. There is no mandate for the advice requester to come back and try to change the opinions or the direction of the advice given to them. That is not how requesting assistance is done.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

SV11 said:


> Am I reading this correctly, you banned members just becasue they supported big box bikes? I really hope I"m wrong.


If you weren't party to the banning then I am in no position to explain why they were banned, just that they were associated with that forum and were banned.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

It's the bike. Not the rider.

Every time there's a thread on MTBR about department store bikes, God kills a kitten. How many kittens have to die?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

You admins and moderators should read the first page on this thread again very closely...it wasnt to start a fight with anyone...typical responses from people as usuall on the subject brought it to that stage...you can see the few that understood the nature of the subject and responded showing that..I think its sad EVERBODY cant be included on a cycling forum such as this one...I myself has read and learned alot in other areas on here and hope to continue to be able to do so but if telling me i have to support my local bike shop and pay for an overpriced bike to be able to enjoy this forum then i dont need or want to be here...I understand what BENEFITS you get from a bike shop and for those who CANT wrench on and take care of thier own bike its money well spent as ive said a few times on this thread..Im not telling people to just go by a department store bike on here nor am i telling them they are stupid if they do...Im just tired of hearing about people being bashed for owning a department store bike...For some thats all they will ever own and its not a bad thing ..you can take any of those bikes to a LBS and let them look it over and tune it like any other brand bike as well as upgrade it as needed or wanted...Whats so hard to understand about that??????????????????????????????????????


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I like reading. I shall bring this to the bathroom with me later.


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## Bikemaya (Sep 24, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> Comprehension is the key to understanding...alot of you look past the point and make it out to be something it isnt...Once again ill state the thread was about helping the less fortunate instead of bashing them for what they have;


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Hang on, hang on! Let me catch my breath for a second!

....

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

tl;dr for the rest.

You should take your trolling act to other forums. I hear 4chan likes mudkips too


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

you know what; just delete the thread.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Off-topic note: does anybody else become judgmental when a person doesn't use paragraphs? I do. I think that's worse than owning a department store bike.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

is 
this 
better
for 
you
?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Sharky, it is pretty hard to read your giant text blocks. Why not use the "enter" key every now and then?


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

6sharky9 said:


> is
> this
> better
> for
> ...












That just looks ridiculous. Now you're just being a silly goose.


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## chef7734 (May 4, 2011)

I just want to say it is not all department store bikes. There are quality frames from places like ***** that no one bashes in several forums. For Instance when I joined the forum I was given a Nishiki Wasatch that came from *****. It is a 400 to 500.00 bike that goes on sale for 300 once and a while. Everyone was friendly for the most part and very helpful. Dioamondback, Nishiki, and many other big box bikes are acceptable and have good bones. My Nishiki has a good frame and same parts that are available on the Giant Yukon fx. Could use some upgrades and I did some, but I was able to get my Reign and since my wife cant ride it I am looking at selling it as it is just taking up space. If my wife could ride it I would be upgrading more parts. 









It comes down to ATTITUDE of the poster.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> I like reading. I shall bring this to the bathroom with me later.


 I shall reply, so that you might have proper time to evaluate life's problems


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

chef7734 said:


> I just want to say it is not all department store bikes. There are quality frames from places like ***** that no one bashes in several forums. For Instance when I joined the forum I was given a Nishiki Wasatch that came from *****. It is a 400 to 500.00 bike that goes on sale for 300 once and a while. Everyone was friendly for the most part and very helpful. Dioamondback, Nishiki, and many other big box bikes are acceptable and have good bones. My Nishiki has a good frame and same parts that are available on the Giant Yukon fx. Could use some upgrades and I did some, but I was able to get my Reign and since my wife cant ride it I am looking at selling it as it is just taking up space. If my wife could ride it I would be upgrading more parts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect angle ... I swear as I glanced at that pic, the pedal looked like a training wheel :lol:


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## chef7734 (May 4, 2011)

bikeabuser said:


> Perfect angle ... I swear as I glanced at that pic, the pedal looked like a training wheel :lol:


Pretty bumpy training wheels.


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## Flat Again??? (Dec 24, 2012)

Feel dumb to have been taken in by the OP. My apologies.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Flat Again??? said:


> Feel dumb to have been taken in by the OP. My apologies.


I read your post and thought it was well thought out, actually. It would have been helpful to somebody that needed the experience you had.



bikeabuser said:


> I shall reply, so that you might have proper time to evaluate life's problems


You have no idea. I solved a rubik's cube there once.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Becareful with saying some department stores have quality frames...someone might look down on you for saying that...Good frames only come from high priced bikes using the same componants you can only buy at a LBS from what alot have said on this thread...theres always exceptions on some threads where someone would get help from someone who understands its about the fun and not what you have. But in anycase appreciate you sharing your experience on here with your bike but it doesnt out way the negativity on the subject.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

This thread is like watching high speed chase, you know it's going to end badly for the bad guy but some how I just have to stay tune. 

BTW, when making mtb to car comparison, think Rally cars. Sure your Yugo can ride on dirt but it ain't an offroad car, right tool for the right job.


A confession from a parking lot patsey, I could not give a rip what you ride, nobody cares. It's usually the Wallygoose riders who have to shout out look at me, I'm on a cheapo and I'm having more fun than you be cause I got it at a good deal, it gets me from point A to point B just like you and I only spent $100. 

Op you are giving Wallygoose riders a bad rep, believe me no rich people cares how poor you are, however you worry so much you have to come on the interweb and started a thread called "Department store bike bashing" to get a validation that you are not only poor but ignorance as well. 

Well done:thumbsup:


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Wow..just wow.


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

so 6sharky6 if you are not trolling then why do you keep posting what is said here over at the other site

www.bigboxbikes.com • View topic - Interesting comment by MTBR admin


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

deke505 said:


> so 6sharky6 if you are not trolling then why do you keep posting what is said here over at the other site
> 
> www.bigboxbikes.com • View topic - Interesting comment by MTBR admin


That is interesting. Hmm I have seen this before.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

deke505 said:


> so 6sharky6 if you are not trolling then why do you keep posting what is said here over at the other site
> 
> www.bigboxbikes.com • View topic - Interesting comment by MTBR admin





rockcrusher said:


> That is interesting. Hmm I have seen this before.


*


6sharky9 said:



Wow..just wow.

Click to expand...

*


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

What's the spread on binned vs. locked? What does Vegas say?


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

this thread :lol:



6sharky9 said:


> *I would suggest a local bike shop hard tail as well. Its a much better quality assembly and the support you get you will never get from a retail store*. Also consider a hard tail will be much lighter. That xr comp probably weighs near if not over 50 lbs. That's a lot of bike to handle for a 15 year old. Heavy bikes don't inspire much confidense. Take a look at maybe the GT avalanche 3.0. Performance bike is selling them for $424.00 and has better quality componants and is much lighter. And really the main factor here is a quality frame to build upon as factory items brake or wear out. Its better experiance to learn on a hard tail before a full suspension. And to be honest that xr is not something you want to thrash hard on a trail. Best full suspension entry level bike I believe is a Jamis dakar xc. That runs close to $700 at jensen. *Spend more now and it will be better in the end. Just my .02 cents*


and from another site from yesterday:


6sharky9 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussi ... 36044.html
> 
> You all should get a kick out of this thread i started on MTBR then ..its getting better already


oh boy...what to do with you 6sharky9....what to do....

*when I posted many years ago about my POS under $200 SS with PVC spacers, ramped rings I received no crap about it....this was prior to me being a Mod.

If you walk in with a chip on your shoulder people are gonna knock it off...and that's exactly why you started this 'bait' thread....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

girlonbike said:


> What's the spread on binned vs. locked? What does Vegas say?


So far, we have been seeing really nice behavior in general. The OP might quite not know how to redirect the thread, as evidenced by his request to just delete (which we don't do unless it degrades to the point of serious disrepair), but the other members are mostly just trying to explain what the OP is sensing on the threads that seem bash-like. All in all if the OP behaves and doesn't create puppet threads to support his position, lose his mind and start posting profane attacks, but keeps it together, I see it slowly fading. However if the OP keeps banging on it will eventually attract the real MTBR troll types and it will go down faster than Marion Jones reputation at a USADA hearing.

So far I give it 1:100 chance of getting either.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

Wow, who knew there was a forum defending riders of Walmart and Target bikes? Most interesting thing I've learned all day ... I might be over there for a bit.

And I haven't read the entire thread, but what does 'department store' bike mean? Is that strictly Walmart or Target, etc.? Or does it include places like *****, Sport Authority, et al?

I've never seen anything at Walmart or Target that I'd want to ride. But my wife's GT Avalanche that we bought from SA or someplace like that has held up like a champ over the last 10 years. I would recommend that bike to any newbie.


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## MadMacMan (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll poke my head up from Lurkerdom:

Seems to me that we all start out biking on some level. My first "COOL" bike was the one where I removed the banana seat, sissy bar and the large gooseneck handle bars and replaced them with BMX style seat, mag wheels and knobby tires, and BMX handlebars. Knockoffs for sure, but what a fun bike. 

I started my MTB on an Academy special priced Schwinn, priced sub $200. It was fun for the first few rides, until the deraillers started slipping and other issues that prevented me from enjoying the trails fully. I came across a used Jamis Exile Single speed that suited me better. Better spec'ed equipment = Better riding = MORE FUN. 

The OP is using a straw man arguement here and is going back and forth from this forum to another, crowing "Look HOW COOL I AM!" 

I say Get thee gone. You are doing yourself, this forum and the other forum no favors by being a showoff


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

mimi1885 said:


> This thread is like watching high speed chase, you know it's going to end badly for the bad guy but some how I just have to stay tune.
> 
> BTW, when making mtb to car comparison, think Rally cars. Sure your Yugo can ride on dirt but it ain't an offroad car, right tool for the right job.
> 
> ...


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> What's the spread on binned vs. locked? What does Vegas say?


I thought you were gonna think about life


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

bikeabuser said:


> I thought you were gonna think about life


I did. And then I was done. Life is kinda simplistic when you really think about it.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

MadMacMan said:


> I'll poke my head up from Lurkerdom:
> 
> Seems to me that we all start out biking on some level. My first "COOL" bike was the one where I removed the banana seat, sissy bar and the large gooseneck handle bars and replaced them with BMX style seat, mag wheels and knobby tires, and BMX handlebars. Knockoffs for sure, but what a fun bike.
> 
> ...


My first bike cost $5 and I went with my dad to a few garage sales, to find it.

I sure wish I still had it, broken frame (BMX'd it) and all ... A pre-weld-on-kickstand Schwinn 20" Barracudda, with sissybar, and the same gooseneck handlebars you had 

I've never seen one like it, ever.
Example - Dads Dish. Geeking out about all the stuff that makes a 20th Century Retro Dad Click!: Old School Schwinn Barracuda rebuild
Except mine had 2 straight bars from the headtube to the seattube ... Unlike this one with 2 bent tubes at that location.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> I did. And then I was done. Life is kinda simplistic when you really think about it.


:lol:

Kind of glad the MOD's are letting this roll .... We might discover the meaning of life IF you give us a clue.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Your attitude sucks and it got bashed, not your non existent bike


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> :thumbsup: Now *that* is the way to get in to mountain biking on the cheap. I wouldn't mind riding it, nor sinking a few bucks into some select upgrades.


I ended up selling it a few years ago...and hated myself for it. Bought almost the exact same bike last year and put some upgrades into it. With a decent fork, it makes a great backup bike!


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Go to the opening post and read down again...you tell me where my attitude was before it came to me about even mentioning a department store bike...you people dont see it and thats the sad part of it...i get responses like they are junk and this is bad and thats junk...typical of what you guys obviously dont see happened before i defended in a more aggressive manner with attitude back for the ignorant comments made...it was a post on what was done to a bike from a department store if you havent noticed...but noooooo...lets starts saying i would never own that crap or this crap and you have to buy from a local bike shop to get a decent bike... blah blah blah is all that was...nothing on that bike i posted is stock except for the frame which happens to be of a very good quality build and geometry for such a low brand name...but thats too complicated for you all to understand apparently..So i guess its still just a crappy department store bike becuase the frame is from one??????????????...you all are blind


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Heres a little hint to the bike people...its not a stock department store built bike by the guy who brings in the shopping carts...HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

You have no idea what a straw man argument is, do you? I'll give you a hint: it's the one you keep trying to use, and the reason you're catching a lot of flak.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> Go to the opening post and read down again...you tell me where my attitude was before it came to me about even mentioning a department store bike...you people dont see it and thats the sad part of it...i get responses like they are junk and this is bad and thats junk...typical of what you guys obviously dont see happened before i defended in a more aggressive manner with attitude back for the ignorant comments made...it was a post on what was done to a bike from a department store if you havent noticed...but noooooo...lets starts saying i would never own that crap or this crap and you have to buy from a local bike shop to get a decent bike... blah blah blah is all that was...nothing on that bike i posted is stock except for the frame which happens to be of a very good quality build and geometry for such a low brand name...but thats too complicated for you all to understand apparently..So i guess its still just a crappy department store bike becuase the frame is from one??????????????...you all are blind


Considering that you are still here ... Let's reflect on one of your opening lines (that I intentionally overlooked, due to benefit of the doubt).


6sharky9 said:


> *You all* should help people get ridding and stop bashing them for only being able to afford a department store bike.


You entered with an ASSumption ... Didn't you ?
And you started with a generalized attack ... Didn't you ?


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

6sharky9 said:


> Go to the opening post and read down again...you tell me where my attitude was before it came to me about even mentioning a department store bike...you people dont see it and thats the sad part of it...i get responses like they are junk and this is bad and thats junk...typical of what you guys obviously dont see happened before i defended in a more aggressive manner with attitude back for the ignorant comments made...it was a post on what was done to a bike from a department store if you havent noticed...but noooooo...lets starts saying i would never own that crap or this crap and you have to buy from a local bike shop to get a decent bike... blah blah blah is all that was...nothing on that bike i posted is stock except for the frame which happens to be of a very good quality build and geometry for such a low brand name...but thats too complicated for you all to understand apparently..So i guess its still just a crappy department store bike becuase the frame is from one??????????????...you all are blind


who are you talking to


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

p_h said:


> You can find a quality entry level bike from a local bike shop and pay little to no different than what you would pay for a walmart bike. In doing so you not only support the industry but you hopefully help a local business and make a connection for the future when you need service, parts or just need some questions answered, something that walmart will not provide for you.
> 
> I understand that you are trying to justify your purchase of a crappy department store bike that was put together by someone who has no idea how to adjust a derailleur let alone a set of brakes. Unfortunately for you in this case there is enough information to prove you wrong.
> 
> I understand you take offense to the bashing you have to endure, but if you did your research you wouldn't be complaining about something that you could have avoided if you weren't so cheap.


Attitude????????????


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I'm just happy I took the bet. It's starting to look goooooood.


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## chester2123 (Aug 24, 2012)

Im a Newb to this forum and to MTBing in general but from a strictly observational stand point, I can see where the OP is coming from. I currently have a 97 Cannondale M500 that I bought to see if I was interested in this hobby, I feel in love. I decide a new bike was in order, so I've been researching entry level 29ers. I decided on a Motobecane Fantom 29 but the bashing on this forum of Motobecane is everywhere there's even nick names "motobacon". The only place to find support is in the Motobecane group. Its fantastic that some have enough funds to drop $1000+ on a 29er hardtail but I do not and when you look at the component group it just doesn't make sense. It seems some need to justify the cost in some way, motobecane frame must be crap, built by Kinesis, must be geometry, must be put together poorly, must be something because why the hell did I spend $400 more for my bike! Then its oooohhhh, I have such an amazing relationship with my LBS that they will take special care of my LBS bike and turn away other bikes that they don't sell. People ride what they ride why not just leave it at that.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I think I have the answer.....*



6sharky9 said:


> You admins and moderators should read the first page on this thread again very closely...it wasnt to start a fight with anyone...typical responses from people as usuall on the subject brought it to that stage...you can see the few that understood the nature of the subject and responded showing that..I think its sad EVERBODY cant be included on a cycling forum such as this one...I myself has read and learned alot in other areas on here and hope to continue to be able to do so but if telling me i have to support my local bike shop and pay for an overpriced bike to be able to enjoy this forum then i dont need or want to be here...I understand what BENEFITS you get from a bike shop and for those who CANT wrench on and take care of thier own bike its money well spent as ive said a few times on this thread..Im not telling people to just go by a department store bike on here nor am i telling them they are stupid if they do...Im just tired of hearing about people being bashed for owning a department store bike...For some thats all they will ever own and its not a bad thing ..you can take any of those bikes to a LBS and let them look it over and tune it like any other brand bike as well as upgrade it as needed or wanted...Whats so hard to understand about that??????????????????????????????????????


If you don't want to accept others opinions (read: telling me i have to support my local bike shop and pay for an overpriced bike to be able to enjoy this forum) and you "don't want to be here" then you should save yourself some frustration and leave.

Since you're trolling, you already know this but coming on a mountain bike site, run by and supported by avid mountain bike enthusiasts and arguing that we should all accept your opinion that a sub-standard mountain bike (that usually contains a warning against off road riding) that is put together by an untrained and unqualified warehouse employee is a perfectly acceptable approach to our sport is simply not going to result in people agreeing with your opinion. You can either accept that or not accept that. But whining about those opinions that aren't the same as yours also isn't going to change anyone's opinions.

I do have a suggestion that may help bring more people to your side. Have you thought about adding more punctuation marks to your correspondence?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Can I get in on the action.....*



girlonbike said:


> I'm just happy I took the bet. It's starting to look goooooood.


What's the over/under?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

"You all" refers to those who know they troll and bash anything related to a department store bikes...youll find some on this thread if you look closely.


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## legking (Dec 8, 2012)

When I'm flying down the hills at Mach 1, I get a lot of looks. I don't know if they're checking out me, or my bike.

But one things for sure:

You don't have to have a $5K bike to kick some trail ass. Ride what you've got. Ride it, and ride it hard. Ride that ****ing thing til' the wheels fall off, the frame cracks, and the forks collapse.

If you can't do these things, you aren't riding hard enough. RIDE.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

chester2123 said:


> Im a Newb to this forum and to MTBing in general but from a strictly observational stand point, I can see where the OP is coming from. I currently have a 97 Cannondale M500 that I bought to see if I was interested in this hobby, I feel in love. I decide a new bike was in order, so I've been researching entry level 29ers. I decided on a Motobecane Fantom 29 but the bashing on this forum of Motobecane is everywhere there's even nick names "motobacon". The only place to find support is in the Motobecane group. Its fantastic that some have enough funds to drop $1000+ on a 29er hardtail but I do not and when you look at the component group it just doesn't make sense. It seems some need to justify the cost in some way, motobecane frame must be crap, built by Kinesis, must be geometry, must be put together poorly, must be something because why the hell did I spend $400 more for my bike! Then its oooohhhh, I have such an amazing relationship with my LBS that they will take special care of my LBS bike and turn away other bikes that they don't sell. People ride what they ride why not just leave it at that.


Bashing? Like what? When were you "bashed" in the forum? I owned a Cliff 29er Pro from bikesdirect and never got "bashed". Maybe some people (I'm not saying you necessarily), have skin that's paper thin or are insecure by nature. Some people don't like certain brands, and they'll say so, but is that to be considered bashing as well? Some people prefer different things...shall we be concerned about every difference in taste? I've had some people knock my Santa Cruz...who gives a $hit?

Get over what people think/say about your bike, just get out and enjoy it!


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

legking said:


> When I'm flying down the hills at Mach 1, I get a lot of looks. I don't know if they're checking out me, or my bike.
> 
> But one things for sure:
> 
> ...


This reminds me of my BMX days ... Huffy forks were cheap to replace, but also very light


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

chester2123 said:


> Im a Newb to this forum and to MTBing in general but from a strictly observational stand point, I can see where the OP is coming from. I currently have a 97 Cannondale M500 that I bought to see if I was interested in this hobby, I feel in love. I decide a new bike was in order, so I've been researching entry level 29ers. I decided on a Motobecane Fantom 29 but the bashing on this forum of Motobecane is everywhere there's even nick names "motobacon". The only place to find support is in the Motobecane group. Its fantastic that some have enough funds to drop $1000+ on a 29er hardtail but I do not and when you look at the component group it just doesn't make sense. It seems some need to justify the cost in some way, motobecane frame must be crap, built by Kinesis, must be geometry, must be put together poorly, must be something because why the hell did I spend $400 more for my bike! Then its oooohhhh, I have such an amazing relationship with my LBS that they will take special care of my LBS bike and turn away other bikes that they don't sell. People ride what they ride why not just leave it at that.


there's nothing wrong with motobecane...

some of that attitude is/was derived from shill posters pushing their product - which really rubs pretty much everyone the wrong way.

Also, buying a bike online can be hit or miss for sizing, specifically if you are a noob...and 'fit' is the A#1 factor in purchasing a bike...

To add there is also nothing wrong with supporting your LBS if you can afford the uptick in price (normally)...

or researching used...based on suggestions here on MTBR for example

I found this used gem for $1000 for a friend of mine this weekend:









May not look like a lot to you - but new is a minimum 1 year wait and $4,000+..and it rides like it....basically this bike is 'art'

Whatever floats your boat, gets you happy to ride and continue to ride is what's most important....and who cares what a keyboard cowboy has to say about it, regardless if it's $200, or $8,000...


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

Its not about brand and it never was..department type stores and sporting goods stores sell brand name bike dont they?...cant you buy a diamond back or a K2 from a sporting goods store?...are they garbage also becuase they werent purchased from a LBS...again i dont think most of you see the whole point...And to use one example vs many im sure i can find on here with bashing some poor kids fun of owning his first bike that was bought from a department store is just sad...to say it doesnt exsist on here is plain denial. Didnt an admin say6 he banned people for not understanding you should support your local bike shop?..Did that seriously happen?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Hunter! Good dude/builder too


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

ill repost it if anyone didnt see it the first time


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

6sharky9 said:


> Its not about brand and it never was..department type stores and sporting goods stores sell brand name bike dont they?...cant you buy a diamond back or a K2 from a sporting goods store?...are they garbage also becuase they werent purchased from a LBS...again i dont think most of you see the whole point...And to use one example vs many im sure i can find on here with bashing some poor kids fun of owning his first bike that was bought from a department store is just sad...to say it doesnt exsist on here is plain denial. Didnt an admin say6 he banned people for not understanding you should support your local bike shop?..Did that seriously happen?


:lol:

OK...you're really stretching now...

thanks for the Monday fun :thumbsup:

*awaiting the barrage of run-on sentences


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## chester2123 (Aug 24, 2012)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Bashing? Like what? When were you "bashed" in the forum? I owned a Cliff 29er Pro from bikesdirect and never got "bashed". Maybe some people (I'm not saying you necessarily), have skin that's paper thin or are insecure by nature. Some people don't like certain brands, and they'll say so, but is that to be considered bashing as well? Some people prefer different things...shall we be concerned about every difference in taste? I've had some people knock my Santa Cruz...who gives a $hit?
> 
> Get over what people think/say about your bike, just get out and enjoy it!


I don't recall ever saying I was bashed, I observed bashing of the brand in threads while researching. Examples of the nick names in my post. My point was none of its necessary, not on that Genesis, Motobecane, or your Santa Cruz. The OP, in this case open the door with this thread but thats not always the case. Just think people could check their ego at the door and be happy that more saddles are being filled and the sport is expanding, regardless of opinion on ride.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> What's the over/under?


2..... Days


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Hunter! Good dude/builder too


yah Rick's a super cool guy (I ride a Hunter)...

I'd keep this rig if I was 3" shorter....DAMMIT NORWEGIAN GENES!!!!....

it was a local Pro Mechanics bike - it's built nice, way, way nice.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

that is a nice bike...as with most they get upgraded in time or neglected and left to rust out...My thread was about a low end bike that was modded and to show what can be done to one over time...The owner of that bike rode a 2500 dollar trek fuel before it got stolen from him...he know what a good expensive bike rides like and what good componants on a bike are..but thats not the point either...the point is because people know it started out as a department store bike the bashing and attitude came forth over it...this is what im talking about on here that happens all the time...I understand some people are stuck a certain brand or model and dont like other peoples rides but in general all department store bike for many on here are a sore subject to them and alot of them get no support or help because of it...I personally like GT bikes..Not very many can argue that the triple triangle frame design is among the best in the business. but it will have haters and i understand that fully.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

This thread went completely the wrong way from its intention and it really sucks...was hoping someone maybe asked questions about the bike or talk about the low end bike they have and may as about a mod they can do to it...but as in typical fashion pertaining to a low end it became a bash fest.


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## chester2123 (Aug 24, 2012)

CHUM said:


> there's nothing wrong with motobecane...
> 
> some of that attitude is/was derived from shill posters pushing their product - which really rubs pretty much everyone the wrong way.
> 
> ...


perfect example of how info could be expressed without "bashing", opinions and concerns were given while staying neutral. Unfortunately, not how everyone would go about it but we can dream.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

sorry if i offended or defended my self from attacks made on me first..some of you i know are respected members and have been riding a long time and thats respectable in itself. Ive read and learned alot from people like yourselves but not all of the MTBR members are helpful to most unfortunate who can only afford low end bike. Again im going to state i can own whatever bike i want to own as im not a low income individual like someone mis guidedly stated nor do i feel me trying to help the less fortunate gives them a bad name or myself one..Just a bad experiance with this thread trying to help others


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> This thread went completely the wrong way from its intention and it really sucks....


Fooled me, I would have guessed it's going exactly the way you hoped it would. :skep:


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

My best'est bike, right now ... Was fabricated in Taiwan, assembled somewhere on this planet, and is RED.

And I just bought these -









So don't be talking about my bike in a negative fashion, or it will be









As I wheel about.










:cornut::devil:


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## chester2123 (Aug 24, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> This thread went completely the wrong way from its intention and it really sucks...was hoping someone maybe asked questions about the bike or talk about the low end bike they have and may as about a mod they can do to it...but as in typical fashion pertaining to a low end it became a bash fest.


Really? If you wanted to show case the bike then thats what you should have done, present the bike its mod list and wait for ?'s and opinions. You presented a problem you found with the board, then gave an example with the bike. I think this is exactly what you were looking for.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> This thread went completely the wrong way from its intention and it really sucks...was hoping someone maybe asked questions about the bike or talk about the low end bike they have and may as about a mod they can do to it...but as in typical fashion pertaining to a low end it became a bash fest.


I've already pointed out why ... It was within your opening remarks.

On a brighter note,
Thanks for the inspiration ... I know have a name for my bike.









And perhaps ... An avatar


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

to those showing my post on another site: yes i just joined the site actually..i went in with somewhat of an aggressive manner against low end bikes,,,but i realized what the Forum was about and quicky changed my attitude...So what...i hear most of them left hear for the reasons of getting no help and being bashed for what they have and want to make better...Just proves what i say about the bashing here exsists more than most of you seem to see....I was actually floored at that v2100 build having not know that bike was a great candidate for upgrades...they changed my thinking on that. Does that mean i tell everyone to go buy a department store bike?..no it doesnt and i reccommend bike from bikes direct actually..stil bike store name brand for much less than a local LBS...been really looking at that Motobecane fantom comp HT for 595 dollars...or just buying the frame alone for 200 and doing what i want to it.


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## Shytie (Feb 22, 2008)

High end bikes, the rider wonders if they can break it. BBS bikes, the rider wonders when they will break it. Just putting it simply. Keep putting lipstick on your pig and we'll keep trying to explain why it's still a swine. The biggest things I see are the frame designs. Having been a test dummy for a very high end manufacturer for a while, I know what I'm looking at/for in a frame. Geometries are important (affects the handling), tubing bends are important (affects the stiffness), tubing quality is important (durability), and alignment is absolutely critical. 

If your faces for your BB or headtube are off, be ready to get to replace those bearings often. Do you think a BBS will check that? A good LBS will. 

Do you think Ping and Pong give a crap about a bike they know is making them pretty much nothing, that their employer is selling for $5? For a bike that they get paid for making quantity, not quality? If I'm making Big Macs all day, I'm just slapping them together, not giving it any thought. If I'm grilling up a nice, juicy rib-eye, you can bet your ass I'm gonna take damn good care of it. There's your argument. Have a nice day.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Does anyone like my avatar ?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I do but it's kind of snooty....just so you know...with the "inc." in it and all. Screams elitism.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

6sharky9 said:


> Go to the opening post and read down again... you tell me where my attitude was before it came to me about even mentioning a department store bike...you people dont see it and thats the sad part of it..
> 
> .i get responses like they are junk and this is bad and thats junk...typical of what you guys obviously dont see happened before i defended in a more aggressive manner with attitude back for the ignorant comments made..
> 
> ...


BS, you have every intention to turn this thread into a free for all bashing. It backfire because you were expecting more support. I like that I was poor right out off college, and can't afford nice stuffs, then it hit me, it's a very easy path, just keep motivated and work hard. You'd get some sympathy from me if you'd actually respect your stance, but unfortunately you are just ranting about your lot in life and insulting everyone else.

You have no idea how easy you have it, all you want is a $60 bike that retail for $200, and upgrade along the way. It's quite noble of you to continue to support the education of the new welders in Chinese factories, without the cheapo to practice on they would not improve their skill and move on to welding my bikes.

You don't have to decide, ever what bike to take. I'm having this problem all the time, I'll try to explain to you but don't feel bad if you don't get it, judging from your writing I don't expect much.

You see first it's Hardtail or Full suspension, then what material ti, carbon, aluminum, steel???, then it's size yeah at least 4 models I have in small and medium, I'm in between size so it's easier to just buy own them in both sizes than compromise. That's just the tip of the iceberg what if I want a them in combo. The big problem is that they are all fun and awesome to ride, hmmm what to do? Also where to put all my bikes? You dig my problem?

Spare me your I'm poor and those who had it better just look down on me, or at least whatever I see written on the forum is directed to me. Grow up and do something about it. Get a job, work hard, go back to school, do better. No one give a lick about what you ride, til you start spewing your venom.

Here are some visual aid to help me decide what to ride

No room for my cars










Do we go with ti, ok which one?










Or may be a 140mm FS but carbon or aluminum, or small or med, made in Asia or made the US of A, which combo there are 2 of each










Then it's the wheel size 29, 650b, or 26?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Mimi! You have an Echo! Not many of those around anymore.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> I do but it's kind of snooty....just so you know...with the "inc." in it and all. Screams elitism.


Leader of the squad, baby 
Leader of the squad.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> 2..... Days


Is there more room in the pool? And is a bikini/speedo required?

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> Is there more room in the pool? And is a bikini/speedo required?


Heck yeah! But no speedos as that is also snooty and brand conscious. I suggest perhaps a simple moniker, "loincloth."


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

chester2123 said:


> Im a Newb to this forum and to MTBing in general but from a strictly observational stand point, I can see where the OP is coming from. I currently have a 97 Cannondale M500 that I bought to see if I was interested in this hobby, I feel in love. I decide a new bike was in order, so I've been researching entry level 29ers. I decided on a Motobecane Fantom 29 but the bashing on this forum of Motobecane is everywhere there's even nick names "motobacon". The only place to find support is in the Motobecane group. Its fantastic that some have enough funds to drop $1000+ on a 29er hardtail but I do not and when you look at the component group it just doesn't make sense. It seems some need to justify the cost in some way, motobecane frame must be crap, built by Kinesis, must be geometry, must be put together poorly, must be something because why the hell did I spend $400 more for my bike! Then its oooohhhh, I have such an amazing relationship with my LBS that they will take special care of my LBS bike and turn away other bikes that they don't sell. People ride what they ride why not just leave it at that.


Don't let the attitude towards Motobecane detract you from their bikes as they had a PR issue generally here, where new users would come on to the boards only post in motobecane threads and gush glowingly about the bikes. It always seemed very suspect and it gained motobecane a lot of ill will. The other issue is that a lot of people that support the brick and mortar LBS feels that Motobecane undersells them because they are a no-middleman business. Since a lot of members support their LBS to death, this also generates a lot of ill will.

However the users of motobecane will often times come on and tell people that they are idiots for spending more which is also what the big box store people will do but then they get upset when others tell them they are idiots for spending so little on their bikes.

Respect is a two way road and if you give it you get it.

Just FYI back in the day, when Cannondale was a boutique small brand it was very often referred to as crackandfail. Shimano was often referred to as shitmano and their derailleur system was referred to as rapidfail. All brands have their detractors, the strategy is to sift though the chafe to find the kernels you are looking for. Focusing on the chafe and arguing against it is just a waste of time.


----------



## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

i now hate mimi....


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

CHUM said:


> i now hate mimi....


Hey now don't hate the player, hate the game


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Mimi,
If you want to adopt me ... It's OK !!!

Nice collection.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

rockcrusher said:


> Don't let the attitude towards Motobecane detract you from their bikes as they had a PR issue generally here, where new users would come on to the boards only post in motobecane threads and gush glowingly about the bikes. It always seemed very suspect and it gained motobecane a lot of ill will. The other issue is that a lot of people that support the brick and mortar LBS feels that Motobecane undersells them because they are a no-middleman business. Since a lot of members support their LBS to death, this also generates a lot of ill will.
> 
> However the users of motobecane will often times come on and tell people that they are idiots for spending more which is also what the big box store people will do but then they get upset when others tell them they are idiots for spending so little on their bikes.
> 
> ...


Speaking of LBS's ... The one closest to me did an evaluation and suggested fitting changes to a bike I didn't even buy from them.

And that's why they get more business from me.

It's off-topic for the OP, but what the heck.


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

6sharky9 said:


> to those showing my post on another site: yes i just joined the site actually..i went in with somewhat of an aggressive manner against low end bikes,,,but i realized what the Forum was about and quicky changed my attitude...So what...i hear most of them left hear for the reasons of getting no help and being bashed for what they have and want to make better...Just proves what i say about the bashing here exsists more than most of you seem to see....I was actually floored at that v2100 build having not know that bike was a great candidate for upgrades...they changed my thinking on that. Does that mean i tell everyone to go buy a department store bike?..no it doesnt and i reccommend bike from bikes direct actually..stil bike store name brand for much less than a local LBS...been really looking at that Motobecane fantom comp HT for 595 dollars...or just buying the frame alone for 200 and doing what i want to it.


I think you do believe that you were just posting here to encourage people who want to feel good about their box store bikes. The thing is, you suck at it. Any positive message you imagine was completely lost, and you also wanted to pick a fight a lot more than you seem willing to admit here or to yourself. Hence your parallel posts on your other forum talking up your experience here.

Here's your second post in this thread. Granted, the poster called you cheap, but your response to a small amount of negativity was over the top.



6sharky9 said:


> Ive not been bashed for anything first off..know your facts..maybe alittle of that expensive bike money should have gone to an education instead?.You miss the point entirely but i understand coming from a troll...The bike pictured is far from a stock bike put together by a walmart builder..I expect responses like yours and it doesnt bother me...it makes me laugh actually at the ignorance.


I agree that last month's Mongoose thread was a disaster, and a number of MTBR members were really behaving badly. That's a shame, and to some degree it seems to have inspired you to come here and troll. You see, that's what a troll is: someone who posts something that is likely to incite an angry response. It's a little ironic that you keep calling everyone who disagrees with you in this thread a troll, when by definition, the troll is you.

I have made fun of someone for riding a box store bike exactly once, in my sophomore year of high school. I felt really bad about it afterwards. I'm happy people are riding any bikes, and learning how much fun it is, and supporting trail access, etc. But your approach here, to the audience of a mountain bike enthusiast forum, was a huge failure, and you shouldn't have expected anything else. And given your posts in your other forum, that's why I and others suspect that this is pretty much exactly what you wanted.


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## sfb12 (Dec 27, 2012)

mimi1885 said:


> Hey now don't hate the player, hate the game


That is quite a great collection to select from. Now that's some real inspiration.:thumbsup:


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## chester2123 (Aug 24, 2012)

mimi has more bikes then I have pairs of underwear.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

There is a word for guys like you, it starts with bike and ends with a word that starts with a w and rhymes with door, and it ain't wizard!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

6sharky9 said:


> Its called that because thats what people get on here for owning one or asking for help with one..cant make it more clear and im far from a troll..youll find them on here in though if you closely. Im not a persecuted minority at all...I can own what ever bike i want when i want it...yes ive owned a department store bike but never had to come on here and ask for help with it so youre completely wrong about that..I guess it seems pointless to try to get most of you to understand what the thread is about..you can see in some reponses those who understood it and those who just troll around trying to be funny or those who just simple dont get it at all.


You are a troll; your own words:

"You all should get a kick out of this thread i started on MTBR then ..its getting better already" www.bigboxbikes.com • Index page • View topic - Another bashing on MTBR


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

rockcrusher said:


> There is a word for guys like you, it starts with bike and ends with a word that starts with a w and rhymes with door, and it ain't wizard!


Not true ... I demand to be paid


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

bikeabuser said:


> Seriously Sharky,
> You did come here for a reason, and that's very obvious to all who are reading this.
> 
> And while it can be argued that a bit of elitism exists within anyone, about any subject ... Most of what I have read here about your topic is often centered on offering advise about how to best use one's money.
> ...


AND in those cases where the OP keeps the thread going, they will often post bikes they found used on craigslist and posters will help them sort through the bikes they found to get the best one for their money.

Sharky clearly has some issues and he will only hear what he wants to. He and his friends on bigboxbikes.com have decided that the people here on MTBR are elitist snobs and no amount of true information will change his or his friend's minds. Who would have ever thought it; there is actually a group of MTBR haters.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Heck yeah! But no speedos as that is also snooty and brand conscious. I suggest perhaps a simple moniker, "loincloth."


Well, if those are the rules, who am I to object. Be prepared to be underwhelmed.

I'll take the under from today. Over from the OP.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

I know I need help

Thanks for the link, I'm sure on the RC forum sharky would be just as bad when someone rav about their Wallygoose Read to race RC, as he's after all a RC racing (2008 gulfstates champion) There's zero chance he's not putting cheapo down, zero


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Dion said:


> Off-topic note: does anybody else become judgmental when a person doesn't use paragraphs? I do. I think that's worse than owning a department store bike.


Dear lord yes. My spelling, grammar, and sentence structure are by no means perfect. But holy hell sometimes I want to smack the chit out of people for their blatant lack of proof reading. This age of texting, tweeting, and facebooking has horribly dumbed down many folks ability to write properly. That does help explain most of the news articles on Yahoo these days though.

Off-topic note to your off-topic note: Why is it I cannot open any of the videos you post in full screen? I click on the little full screen icon on the video, the little icon greys out, and no full screen happens.


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## azmtbkr81 (Oct 10, 2005)

*BBS Bikes*

During college I worked as a mechanic at an LBS and one December I picked up extra shifts at a Toys R Us assembling bikes for the Christmas season, I felt like a traitor but I needed the cash so I took the job. During my time there I gained an interesting perspective on the entire BBS bike experience.

When I started my workbench had an adjustable wrench, a pair of pliers, a phillips-head screwdriver, and oddly enough a Park truing stand - with no spoke wrenches. The other assemblers (I hesitate to call them mechanics) didn't know what it was and used it as a coat rack.

The guys in the back assembling bikes were not careless. They took pride in their work and some had been working at Toys R Us for years; the problem is that none of them were cyclists and none had received even rudimentary training on how to put a bike together so they treated the bikes with the same care that they might a toy rocking horse or playhouse.

The next day I brought in my tool box and proceeded to assemble bikes the way I had been taught at the shop including truing wheels, torquing critical bolts, greasing the seat tube and so on. I feel that during my time there I was able to built and tune cheaply made Chinese bikes to their full potential and the conclusion that I came to is that a properly tuned and thoroughly checked BBS bike can be acceptable for light duty riding but is woefully under-equipped to handle even light duty off road riding.

The quality of the metal used for components is cheap. Sure the shifters and derailluers might be fine, even the same as what you'd find at a "real" shop, but the stem, rims, handlebars, seat, brakes, and associated bolts and hardware would often fail during assembly and the quality varied widely from bike to bike.

If you are an ace bike mechanic like Sharky and can replace all of components except for the frame you'll probably do fine but most customers aren't nearly as astute The average customer is usually a guy in his 30's or 40's who knows nothing about bikes and simply wants a pair of bikes for himself and his kid to ride on the weekend. Once a guy brought in his 8 year old son who had a broken arm due to brake failure when going down a large hill. The boy was in tears, the dad was pissed, and bike was mangled. After that Incident I decided that I could never recommend a BBS bike to even the most casual of riders - medical bills are a hell of a lot more expensive than even the most expensive bike you are likely find at your average bike shop.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

I just can't seem to resist.






_*You walked into the bike shop*_..................


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

girlonbike said:


> Mimi! You have an Echo! Not many of those around anymore.


Oh, yeah, and embarrass to say Fatbeat as well


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

6sharky9 said:


> to those showing my post on another site: Yes i just joined the site actually..i went in with somewhat of an aggressive manner against low end bikes,,,but i realized what the forum was about and quicky changed my attitude...so what...i hear most of them left hear for the reasons of getting no help and being bashed for what they have and want to make better...just proves what i say about the bashing here exsists more than most of you seem to see....i was actually floored at that v2100 build having not know that bike was a great candidate for upgrades...they changed my thinking on that. Does that mean i tell everyone to go buy a department store bike?..no it doesnt and i reccommend bike from bikes direct actually..stil bike store name brand for much less than a local lbs...been really looking at that motobecane fantom comp ht for 595 dollars...or just buying the frame alone for 200 and doing what i want to it.


lol...


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

Mimi, from your grammar I would mistake you for one of those Chinese welders.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

mimi1885, is your Seven titanium? Pretty cool ride.
Edit, I forgot that Ti is raw, lol.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

blammo585 said:


> Mimi, from your grammar I would mistake you for one of those Chinese welders.


Absolutely, American dream eh? Look I'm no longer welding.

Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

mimi1885 said:


> Absolutely, American dream eh? Look I'm no longer welding.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


Well fro this post, I'd say you're a dirty Canuck. "Eh"? Really you didn't think we'd figure it out.

I'm watching you, lady. And as far as you know, it's not in the creeper stalking way.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

joshh said:


> This thread is done. Nothing else to say. Just be mesmerized.


Great. Story of my life. I just got invited to a pool party by one hot chick and I'm hitting on another and the thread gets shut down.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

This might be my favorite thread in the history of the interwebs.

There really aren't that many [non-d0uchey] people that really give a rat's ### about what someone else rides. The past two summers, I've ran a 24 hour race here with a few friends so that we can make everyone else look that much faster. One of the women on our team has a wally-world Schwinn complete with a quill stem. She turned in lap times just a little slower than mine. I heard not one snide comment from anyone the whole weekend; even from the folks riding the custom Ti frames and high-end carbons.

The issue here, OP [and anyone else reading from BBB] is not the argument, it's how it's presented. Here's a sample argument that lays out your points and wouldn't catch nearly as much flak:

"Here's my new ride. I happen to enjoy taking something that isn't universally appreciated and squeezing every ounce of potential out of it. I started out as XXXXX bike and, realizing that not all the components on it were really 'up to snuff', I replaced out this-and-that-and-the-other-thing. The total cost to me on this project was XXX dollars. Out of that, I got a bike that is capable of riding any trail that a similarly-priced bike would be able to. In my opinion, that's a great bargain, and it was fun going through everything and getting each component to be exactly what I wanted."

I couldn't see an argument quite like this coming from a paragraph like that.

One thing that should be noted, too, is that when people coming in asking for advice about what bike they should buy for their first, is that it seems to be assumed around here that the person asking is going to get "bitten" and want to ride as much as some of the other folks around here. If that is the case, your average dept store bike may not be the best purchase. It may be cheaper, and easier, in the long run to start of with a decent used bike or just jump up to a mid-level bike in the first place if the passion really does stick.

Will everyone that posts here become passionate? Probably not, but advice given around these parts tends to be optimistic that they will. Hopefully they all do; the more that ride, the better. Is it realistic to think everyone can afford a moots or a seven or some other super-nice bike? No [I know I sure as **** can't]... that's why most of us here drool over them too. But, let's face it, not everyone is mechanically inclined enough to go through a dept store bike and make sure it won't get them seriously hurt. The folks that can't, probably shouldn't start off on something like that.

To say you're trying to be a defender of the impoverished is ridiculous. I've seen some threads [such as this one] devolve into giant ****-flinging matches regarding dept. store bikes, but not once have I EVER seen someone mock someone else for only being able to afford something. I call bull**** on that argument.

/endwalloftext


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Ken in KC said:


> Great. Story of my life. I just got invited to a pool party by one hot chick and I'm hitting on another and the thread gets shut down.
> 
> Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


I think it got deleted, so continue with your hitting on hot pool party chicks.


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## shawnt2012 (Jun 2, 2012)

Ken in KC said:


> Well fro this post, I'd say you're a dirty Canuck. "Eh"? Really you didn't think we'd figure it out.
> 
> I'm watching you, lady. And as far as you know, it's not in the creeper stalking way.
> 
> Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


Dirty Canadian? Did I miss something? I find that offensive!

Tone's; First time since I have joined that I have seen you have shown any frustration/aggression... So to the OP... Not making any friends here at all...

Again, I will state. My brother was nearly killed because of a BBS' negligence. Here is a link I just found here on MTBR. The man mentioned in this was not my brother. His accident happened 1 year prior to this, EVEN after his accident Canadian Tire STILL left the recalled bike on the shelf and the other guy got seriously injured.

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/canadian-tire-loses-lawsuit-170804.html

I have photos of him and the bike if proof is needed.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Stunning declaration.

Edit: uh. Re legking.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Stunning declaration.


Is there a pool open on this one yet?

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

whoops bye legking


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Ken in KC said:


> Is there a pool open on this one yet?
> 
> Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


If you didn't have right now as in 3 minutes ago then there is no payout sorry.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Son of a motherless goat....*



rockcrusher said:


> If you didn't have right now as in 3 minutes ago then there is no payout sorry.


I had 2 minutes ago. And none of the previous 3 posts make any sense now. To everyone not named girlonbike or rockcrusher, trust me, the last three posts are the funniest f'ing thing you've ever read. And Rockcrusher deserves all kinds of positive rep (he eats that sh!t up)


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## Bikemaya (Sep 24, 2012)

Like Mimi said, don't hate the player, hate the game  THAT is a stable 

Not my personal style to splurge, but no reason to hate others for it!


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

rockcrusher said:


> whoops bye legking


LOL, What happened to Legking, poor Legking.. I left a note and some food and water for him in the naughty corner, its cold and dark in there.....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Ken in KC said:


> I had 2 minutes ago. And none of the previous 3 posts make any sense now. To everyone not named girlonbike or rockcrusher, trust me, the last three posts are the funniest f'ing thing you've ever read. And Rockcrusher deserves all kinds of positive rep (he eats that sh!t up)


You win the prize! Please call this number to collect: 817221158 and tell them it was for the over/under on legking.

And no rep, just send single malt scotch to my hollowed out volcano address: Kanacea Island, Fiji, South Pacific. Please send via my realtor: Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

thanks!


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)




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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

This is FN hilarious!!! I've been gone for a few hours and...five pages later this thread is still alive and kicking!! The OP is a sadist!


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

HitmenOnlyInc said:


> This is FN hilarious!!! I've been gone for a few hours and...five pages later this thread is still alive and kicking!! The OP is a sadist!


I actually feel a little bad for the guy, honestly. He really doesn't understand why we don't all see how reasonable he is.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

evasive said:


> I actually feel a little bad for the guy, honestly. He really doesn't understand why we don't all see how reasonable he is.


Yes he does. He's a troll.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

If nothing else, this thread has enlightened me to the site www.bigboxbikes.com • Index page

What a comedic treasure trove!


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## sfb12 (Dec 27, 2012)

I think that the whole proportions thing blew up after 11 pages of comments in a day. Never seen anything like it but well it happened.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Ken in KC said:


> Yes he does. He's a troll.
> 
> Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


Yes, I know. Maybe you missed my posts with the screencap I took of his gleeful "look what I did on MTBR" post on bigboxbikes, or my explanation of what a troll is and why he is one.

That aside, it's pretty clear he actually didn't know what a troll is. He seemed to think it was just some kind of Internet epithet. And I've seen what he's moaning about on his "home" forum this evening. I don't think he actually understands that he's making a straw man argument, or how muddled his writing is. I'm not excusing his trolling. But I think it was more of a misguided attempt to "show those guys" than a real troll.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

just for those who need a refresher: Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

Looks like we got ourselves a _menage a trois_ at bigboxbikes.com

All I see posting there (well, at least 90%), are the OP, Irishmongooserider, and desertguns. Must be a real ego stroke-fest.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

dirt farmer said:


> If nothing else, this thread has enlightened me to the site www.bigboxbikes.com • Index page
> 
> What a comedic treasure trove!


What's the over/under on who actually owns/built/paid for that website.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Yeah KC what happened?
Quote:

 Originally Posted by *legking*  
_And that folks, is a prime example of the GEAR QUEER. That person that has more bikes than they can even ride (if they can ride).

Like the super duper cool kid at school that used to show up with all the latest gear. Kid wasn't **** without the gear, but at least he had the gear to rub in other kids' faces. Status symbol.

Poor kid thought that Air Jordan's would give 'em an edge during P.E.

If you have more than 3 bikes, you better be a pro. More than 3, and you might have your own shop, or be a poseur._

Whatever. Worry about yourself. How others choose to spend their money and time isn't your business.

At least you're judgmental in addition to being ignorant. It's kind of cute.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine. 
__________________
*JPark* - 3.5- don't listen to dremer

And this from RC
Quote:

 Originally Posted by *legking*  
_blah blah blah my legs etc._

That right there is a steaming pile of horse **** you know nothing of the user nor their situation nor their experience levels nor anything but what you determined from 3 pictures.

You are seriously a great contributor here with all your astute findings. E-postering must be your profession. There is a thin line being walked here and you are balancing precipitously on its edge. Remain the clown that you are usually and everyone is happy. Baseless attacks on other users and you will be on the fast end of an outright banning.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

mimi1885 said:


> Yeah KC what happened?
> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by *legking*
> ...


haha I was wondering if someone would grab those and repost.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

That was crrraazzyyy. But. Wouldn't you know it, we survived another day. Here's to a relatively calm and healthy Tuesday everybody!


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)




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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

dirt farmer said:


> Looks like we got ourselves a _menage a trois_ at bigboxbikes.com
> 
> All I see posting there (well, at least 90%), are the OP, Irishmongooserider, and desertguns. Must be a real ego stroke-fest.


Irishmongooserider is actually a pretty nice guy, i felt a bit for him when he posted his thread here a few weeks ago, he wasnt a troll, just a guy that was passionate about his mongoose bikes, and i think he handled a bit of criticism with plenty of class and dignity.

Irishmooserider, if your reading this come back mate, i think a lot here that see and respect your passion, i certainly do mate..

The OP here could learn a lot from you..

cheers


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

what is this I go to work when this thread was on page 5 and now it has 11 pages, and now I don't get any fun:skep:


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Ya should have called in sick.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

wow. i made it to page six.

here are what i think (in my unbiased opinion) were the best lines in this thread up to that point before my eyes started glazing over:

_"Funny no insight from you just wagon train comments to be supported by your biking buddies."

"but you guys pay for membership so im sure that makes it alright"

"it's hard sifting through the pill of poop for which the person behind the screen name came from."

"Subsequently, finding out she cheated on me meant my personal bike budget had just doubled and I was able to check out better starting bikes!"

"Oh my goodness this thread is terrible."

"Clearly he went to University of "shwinn". I'm not sure which is funnier, the fact he doesn't own a bike or that he pulled out the I raced bmx in the 80s."

"Geez sharky you ever sleep? Your molars must be ground down to stubs by now."

"This thread was a pretty good waste of time."

"no im not new to bikes or cycling but for someone to use the fact i dont have one at this time (meaning why am i even hear talking about bikes) is just plain ignorant to meaning of the thread...I moved so i sold my last bike..sorry this turns some people bowels."_


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

Tystevens said:


> Wow, who knew there was a forum defending riders of Walmart and Target bikes? Most interesting thing I've learned all day ... I might be over there for a bit.
> 
> And I haven't read the entire thread, but what does 'department store' bike mean? Is that strictly Walmart or Target, etc.? Or does it include places like *****, Sport Authority, et al?
> 
> I've never seen anything at Walmart or Target that I'd want to ride. But my wife's GT Avalanche that we bought from SA or someplace like that has held up like a champ over the last 10 years. I would recommend that bike to any newbie.


If sports authority is any thing like sports chek here in Canada, they at least have people that fix and repair the bike. I used to work at one as the head mechanic and we even had people come in with their higher end bikes to get fixed.

I would not consider them dept store bikes but an in between the dept store and lbs.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

LOL, Rock crusher has a thread dedicated to him over on bigbox forum in the general section called ''interesting words from MTBR Admin''.
Apparently crusher sides with all the Aholes on mtbr lol.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

While acknowledging that mountain biking is just a hobby and bike are toys for most of us, if you have a true passion for riding a cheap department store bike is not going to cut it.

Frankly, and without the all-bikes-are-cool caveats, cheap department store mountain bikes are poorly manufactured junk marketed to price-conscious consumers for whom mountain biking is an afterthought, something they think they might want to try some afternoon if they can get the time to get to the trails. If you ride four or five times a week on real trails with roots, rocks, and technical features you're going to get tired of your Wal Mart rattle-trap death bike rather quickly.

Most of my non-riding friends think that mountain biking is a leisurely pursuit accomplished on smooth, flat trails though a sedate park so they naturally don't understand why anybody would pay more than a couple of bills for any bike. I suspect this is the OPs outlook.

I have a lot of bikes and most of them are in the three to four-thousand dollar price range. While it is socially unacceptable to say it, these bikes are worth every penny I paid for them and I ride them with great enjoyment. They are far, far better than the bikes I rode in the 1990s and noticeably better than the lower end but decent bikes I used to ride.

Ironically, because mountain biking is just a hobby, there is no penalty for spending a lot of money on it (assuming you can afford to). People who brag about buying cheap bikes that are "just as good" as my four-thousand-dollar Stumpjumper are in fact grim zealots who need to lighten up and stop taking themselves and our sport so seriously. We get it. You can't afford a nicer bike. That's not a crime. High tech equipment and technological advancement are, however, a large and legitimate part of mountain biking and a large part of the fun for most of us.

Just keep that in mind. There is more to mountain biking than pointing the cheapest bike you could find down the trail.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

mimi1885 said:


> Here are some visual aid to help me decide what to ride


I like the carton of Ramen noodles in the background.

I solve the problem of having to pick up one of my seven bikes by only having one or two fully ready to roll at any given time. Rest are usually in some stage of component swap or maintenance.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

CDMC said:


> You are a troll; your own words:
> 
> "You all should get a kick out of this thread i started on MTBR then ..its getting better already" www.bigboxbikes.com • Index page • View topic - Another bashing on MTBR


Huh. OP is a full on troll it seems.


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## joshh (Nov 14, 2012)

Getting a BBS bike to get out and try the trails isn't a bad idea if your budget is on the lower end. It gives you a chance to see what riding trails are like. And if you have a friend with an expensive bike, you can gauge yourself and your bike against theirs to see if that kind of riding is what you want, and if you want to upgrade bikes. Of course if you have the money and jump right into an expensive trail bike, that's not always a bad thing because resell value is so good on so many of these.

As someone that started not quite 3 months ago on a BBS Mongoose, I can attest to the differences though. My plan was to ride that bike out until late Feb or March, when my LBS put their prior year rentals up for sale. After 2 trips OTB, 3 bent rear axles, a busted chain, destroyed rear deraileur, numerous cheapo parts, a 'Goose turned into a singlespeed to get me back to the car, mixed with my lack of skill, I had to upgrade sooner rather then later. The last straw was on a nice smooth fast downhill that I was doing about 20mph on, it felt like the front wheel disappeared on me. I was cruising and then I was tumbling. That was 6-7 weeks ago and my neck still hurts from that crash.

Long story short... If you want to get a BBS for casual riding or to try the trails, by all means go for it. But just like any sport, if you want to really get into it and enjoy yourself, you need to spend more for better equipment.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Ailuropoda said:


> While acknowledging that mountain biking is just a hobby and bike are toys for most of us, if you have a true passion for riding a cheap department store bike is not going to cut it.
> 
> Frankly, and without the all-bikes-are-cool caveats, cheap department store mountain bikes are poorly manufactured junk marketed to price-conscious consumers for whom mountain biking is an afterthought, something they think they might want to try some afternoon if they can get the time to get to the trails. If you ride four or five times a week on real trails with roots, rocks, and technical features you're going to get tired of your Wal Mart rattle-trap death bike rather quickly.
> 
> ...


 Bravo!!!

That post sums it all up so perfectly.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I have a few brand-new department store mtn bikes at the bike co-op. should I build one up, get it working as best possible, and ride it on real trails as an experiment? I am afraid it will result in me getting hurt.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Just to be clear as it seems I have been vilified for moderating: The users I mentioned that were banned and started that other website were not banned because they were using department store bikes but for violation of the terms of service at MTBR otherwise known as the Guidelines. If you don't know all the story you don't know all the story.

As Ailuropoda so eloquently stated the problem with these threads is the attitude of the poster, which I myself I have tried to show to them numerous times, that their bike is better because it is cheaper or they are a better rider or whatever. A quick look at the recently departed legking shows how this never creates any situation but conflict. Being elitist because you have a trek or whatever is no less elitist than stating that you are better because you don't have a trek.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

You dont have to explain yourself crusher, it was pretty easy to see what the OP was up to here, he was only here to get some attention and start a drama, and i think everybody could see that thus the two red dots next to his name as voted by the people....


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Tone's said:


> LOL, Rock crusher has a thread dedicated to him over on bigbox forum in the general section called ''interesting words from MTBR Admin''.
> Apparently crusher sides with all the Aholes on mtbr lol.


That's this OP, quoting RC


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

So, department store bikes aren't any good?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Dion said:


> So, department store bikes aren't any good?


Nope, they're made out of gas piping you buy at the hardware store. Then they bolt on some 20 year old technology to the handlebars and slap solid rubber tires on the wooden wheels and call it good. High tech in the 1800's and STILL works today!


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## Shytie (Feb 22, 2008)

And Dion comes in and kicks the nest again... I'm beginning to wonder if the OP wrecked his BBS bike.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

bluestatevirgin said:


> What's the over/under on who actually owns/built/paid for that website.


I like the typo on the main page: "Road bikes sold by bygbox stores" Sounds like the same people that sells Ugg boots. Love that attention to detail. I actually like Target.They sell food, and clothes, and shoes, and wrapping paper, and dental floss and batteries.



deke505 said:


> If sports authority is any thing like sports chek here in Canada, they at least have people that fix and repair the bike. I used to work at one as the head mechanic and we even had people come in with their higher end bikes to get fixed.
> 
> I would not consider them dept store bikes but an in between the dept store and lbs.


The Sports Authority at my city sells bikes but has no repair counter that I've seen.



Axe said:


> I like the carton of Ramen noodles in the background.


Gotta eat cheap to afford good toys. Or at least that's how I do it.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Nope, they're made out of gas piping you buy at the hardware store. Then they bolt on some 20 year old technology to the handlebars and slap solid rubber tires on the wooden wheels and call it good. High tech in the 1800's and STILL works today!


Man. That's too bad. Why are you guys bashing the poor and unfortunate? Not everybody can afford $400 bikes, when equal bikes at Costco go for $399.99 which is way more affordable.

You guys are all rich bike snobs.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Dion said:


> Man. That's too bad. Why are you guys bashing the poor and unfortunate? Not everybody can afford $400 bikes, when equal bikes at Costco go for $399.99 which is way more affordable.
> 
> You guys are all rich bike snobs.


Cue your post regarding your $300 rockhopper.


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

*









Dang!!!
The LBS wants a fortune for these.*​


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Well, now we can see that the cost is justified!


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Dion said:


> So, department store bikes aren't any good?


I have seen a few that are perfectly fine for what they are. $150 fixie at Walmart would be just fine for a short commute or a beer run. I have also seen a $300 26" BMX - DK Xenia, cro-mo frame, rear BB5 disk. I would not mind trashing it either. Not sure about fork on that one though.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

let me say maybe the title as im told was what stirred up all this...Am i the only one that sees in the beginning of the first paragraph i typed that i wasnt bashing but simply asking people to help those
with low end bikes?..First response was wonderful then here comes moron personally attacking me ...I wasnt even going to respond to it but then someone else even had to ask why the personal attack..You all fail to see where and how this thread went bad..i only attacked those who attacked me and responded with the same attitude i got...Now all of a sudden im the bad guy in everyones eyes because a majority fail to see what happen on the first page of the thread..Everyone can see i understood things such as LBS quality assemblies and support and that you get from them.Also understand some of the lowend bikes just arent very good ideas even if just used lightly..every makes me out to be a low income kid who thinks a low end bike is better than anything and its sad to see this..Again im 43 and can own any bike i so please to own..some of you need to go back and read the thread again and stop making me look like the jerk here..so what if i knew i may get some slack for the thread..you all act as if i planned it out with other members just for the reason to start trouble and thats where you all go wrong..Im new to the other thread and barely know any of them there..But i do know of the little support many get for having low end bikes from department store and some advise wisely about themn on here ; but its not that part that that bothers them..its the jerks like on the first page then slowly adding as i tried to defend my self from TROLLS..Im not the bad guy here and some of you should jump off the wagon and get lips off each others behinds


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

6sharky9 said:


> let me say maybe the title as im told was what stirred up all this...Am i the only one that sees in the beginning of the first paragraph i typed that i wasnt bashing but simply asking people to help those
> with low end bikes?..First response was wonderful then here comes moron personally attacking me ...I wasnt even going to respond to it but then someone else even had to ask why the personal attack..You all fail to see where and how this thread went bad..i only attacked those who attacked me and responded with the same attitude i got...Now all of a sudden im the bad guy in everyones eyes because a majority fail to see what happen on the first page of the thread..Everyone can see i understood things such as LBS quality assemblies and support and that you get from them.Also understand some of the lowend bikes just arent very good ideas even if just used lightly..every makes me out to be a low income kid who thinks a low end bike is better than anything and its sad to see this..Again im 43 and can own any bike i so please to own..some of you need to go back and read the thread again and stop making me look like the jerk here..so what if i knew i may get some slack for the thread..you all act as if i planned it out with other members just for the reason to start trouble and thats where you all go wrong..Im new to the other thread and barely know any of them there..But i do know of the little support many get for having low end bikes from department store and some advise wisely about themn on here ; but its not that part that that bothers them..its the jerks like on the first page then slowly adding as i tried to defend my self from TROLLS..Im not the bad guy here and some of you should jump off the wagon and get lips off each others behinds


:madman:


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

And i can tell by some comments they havent even read the whole thread.'
Just useless TROLL comments to try and fit in and maybe get a another green bar by the name to be cool.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

CDMC said:


> I'm beginning to think he crashed a few times without a helmet.


Are department store helmets any good? I saw one with Dora the Explorer on it that looked pretty good for extreme stunt downhill redbull gnarly rad.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

6sharky9 said:


> ...* i wasnt bashing but simply asking people to help those
> with low end bikes?*....


therein lies the problem....

some cats with entry level (or low end) rigs get super obstinate/defensive if it's suggested that upgrading is not the best course of action.

Those are the threads that go sideways.

Others are told 'great/wonderful/have fun'....but they will outgrow that bike if they continue to improve and ride frequently...

You started ornery and received it in kind - makes no difference what your 1st sentence was...the tone was set in the title. You also got exactly what you were looking for - a little flame fest to brighten up a dull Monday...

I know you prefer lower end rigs..that's fine. But have you ever ridden a 'high' end bike for comparison purposes?....ya know, since you can afford it and all.

PS - Name calling will get you sent to the corner...


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

girlonbike said:


> Cue your post regarding your $300 rockhopper.


Hey. I live life on the edge. Extreme.

I break rules and hearts.

Ordered my TapOut window decal off eBay (it's going to take 2-5 weeks by Airmail China). But once I put that on my Toyota Tercel, kids won't mess with me because they know I can do Ultimate Fighting.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

I can tell the difference between someones opinion and a personal attack against me...what your point?...who did i bash that gave some honest opinions that didnt make it sound like i or someone else would be stupid for owning one should that be all one could afford?


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

again..read the first page and see where it went wrong due to TROLLS


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

6sharky9 said:


> again..read the first page and see where it went wrong due to TROLLS


I did.

A member said you were wrong.

You started to get defensive like you are now...and getting worse....

Take a breath - it's OK to be called 'wrong', or actually be wrong....it's not OK to lose your marbles about it.

Clear?

think hard about your next response.....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

6sharky9 said:


> again..read the first page and see where it went wrong due to TROLLS


And done. Everyone is bad in here including you. You are all being punished. If you want to start threads that don't raise dander start on a positive not. Avoid negative titles and defensive positions. Look how other users start their threads on their bikes. Expect people to have opinions. Understand that it isn't your job to personally change opinions. It is after all the damn internet.


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