# what's the best welder?



## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

i'm looking into getting into frame building but i don't have a welder. what would you guys suggest would be best for welding chromoly, aluminum, steel etc.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Miller Dynasty 200DX


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

ok sorry i should have specified this. under $500 i forgot that most good welders cost about as much as good bikes.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

pvd said:


> Miller Dynasty 200DX


+1

Although, I wish I had bought the 300DX instead of the 200. I've had to tack stuff from time to time with mine and go get some real amperage... Of course, the 200DX is plenty for any bicycle work.


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

or $1000 so i can get one used for $500


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

500... Sign up for a welding class, use all of their equipment and instruction.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Framebuilding ain't cheap.


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

i know. how bout this i'll post links to used welders i can afford and you guys tell me if they would work for frame building.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I don't think you're going to get much response on that, b/c most of the people on this list don't have time to go pecking around the internets doing your research for you.

For $500, take a welding class and buy a Victor O/A welding setup with a J-28 or J-100 handle. Do brass brazing for a while until you can drop $2k on a tig setup. The skillset you learn brazing will transfer to tig welding, and then you'll be versatile.


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

it's the end of the year so i'm not in school anymore.


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## swift (Apr 3, 2007)

pvd said:


> Framebuilding ain't cheap.


The first few aren't.

If you like to build and continue to use your tools, the frames become exponentially cheaper. Many of the necessary tools can be used outside of framebuilding as well.

As suggested, taking a class would be a relatively inexpensive way to get exposure and see if you like metalwork.


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## RoyDean (Jul 2, 2007)

I doubt it's still available, but deals don't get much better than this:

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/1774208428.html


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

wow. that looks like a good deal to me and i don't even know that much about welders.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

Hey Torch. I strongly suggest taking a welding course at a community college, or finding someone who can mentor you.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

The best welder is the guy/gal behind the torch....doesn't matter so much what it is...

As has been suggested. Take a course, use the school equipment. Bluntly...you are too broke to get anything decent. Save up and then you will know what you want. Buying the welder first is putting the cart before the horse.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Francis Buxton said:


> The skillset you learn brazing will transfer to tig welding, and then you'll be versatile.


I completely understand your intent, but as a person who's been brazing and now learning to TIG weld, it took a while to get out of the habit of pulling the TIG torch away when the heat in the weld got to hot.  Nonetheless, I got a good laugh at myself every time I did that.

As others have said, having a TIG welding machine does not make someone a TIG welder. Take a welding class.

Also as others have said, get an oxy/acet setup and learn with that. But most importantly, get your parents involved with what you're doing. Frame building can be extremely dangerous to you and those who are around you. The schooling will teach you about the cautions you should be aware of and best practices of handling the equipment.


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

my bad. i thought i had only $500 to play with but as it turns out my dad is looking into putting $1000 towards a welder.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

Seriously, drop $600 on an O/A setup, and the other $400 on welding classes at a local community college or vo-tech school. You really need to learn the basics of welding from a professional, along with all the safety aspects that go along with it. You can build just about any bike you want in steel with an O/A setup.

You have a prett cool dad that's willing to drop a grand so his 16 year old kid can learn to weld and build bikes. Take the class together, and you'll both learn something.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

Francis Buxton said:


> Seriously, drop $600 on an O/A setup, and the other $400 on welding classes at a local community college or vo-tech school. You really need to learn the basics of welding from a professional, along with all the safety aspects that go along with it. You can build just about any bike you want in steel with an O/A setup.
> 
> You have a prett cool dad that's willing to drop a grand so his 16 year old kid can learn to weld and build bikes. Take the class together, and you'll both learn something.


I agree with this post so much.

That, and O/A is FUN.

Also, invest in a decent welding respirator and keep your head out of the smoke, even with the respirator on.


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

Francis Buxton said:


> Seriously, drop $600 on an O/A setup, and the other $400 on welding classes at a local community college or vo-tech school. You really need to learn the basics of welding from a professional, along with all the safety aspects that go along with it. You can build just about any bike you want in steel with an O/A setup.
> 
> You have a prett cool dad that's willing to drop a grand so his 16 year old kid can learn to weld and build bikes. Take the class together, and you'll both learn something.


he doesn't know it's to weld bikes. he first wanted to get just cus he loves MORE TOOLS. but also he works at a factory where he works with welding and fabricating all the time so he's gonna teach me a few things.


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## sk8dad (Jan 24, 2009)

Does anyone know of a good reliable frame jig? ...that's not $5k?


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

ok. $1000. reliable for chromoly. go


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## KmCowham (Dec 6, 2005)

Doesn't anyone do their own research anymore? 
I thought this was a DIY kinda place...


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## RoyDean (Jul 2, 2007)

That link I posted above is a KILLER deal on a great TIG. It's probably overkill for chromoly bikes (nice for aluminum, though).

But to reiterate, LEARN TO WELD FIRST. If you're dad doesn't know what welder to buy, then he doesn't know how to weld.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

This welder looks pretty sweet:


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

tamen00 said:


> This welder looks pretty sweet:


There are no words...


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

RoyDean said:


> That link I posted above is a KILLER deal on a great TIG. It's probably overkill for chromoly bikes (nice for aluminum, though).
> 
> But to reiterate, LEARN TO WELD FIRST. If you're dad doesn't know what welder to buy, then he doesn't know how to weld.


yes he does. it's his job.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Torch_racing said:


> yes he does. it's his job.


As a welder I humbly suggest that you let you father pick out his own equipment . Welders are notoriously fickle about their picks in equipment . If he is a welder he already knows what he wants .


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> As a welder I humbly suggest that you let you father pick out his own equipment . Welders are notoriously fickle about their picks in equipment . If he is a welder he already knows what he wants .


good point.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

A $85 dollar torch and a coat hanger....mmmmm, doing it ol' skool.










who needs a TIG welder:cornut:


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## Torch_racing (Mar 16, 2010)

i don't get it


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

dbohemian said:


> A $85 dollar torch and a coat hanger....mmmmm, doing it ol' skool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah coat hangers, the mystery meat of welding rods.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Torch_racing said:


> i don't get it


Okay , I'll play , what don't you get ?


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## RoyDean (Jul 2, 2007)

Torch_racing said:


> i don't get it


Your dad can explain.


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## mountain_yj (May 18, 2009)

Still want to try the coat hanger just for the hell of it, now need to get the o/a running again. Still my favorite next to Tig, super fun. And sorry to spoil anybody's fun but for those who venture to the dh/fr forum at all will know Torch is a stubborn little man and this thread has the potential to seriously frustrate some people.

Torch go to your local CC or tech school and take classes. You wont have a clue what to do with a nice welder if you have zero experience. Trust me on this one, I'm currently half way through my schooling to get my associates in welding. Sitting down with somebody who welds and teaches welding is worth the time and money if not just to watch them lay a bead or ask a few questions.


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## toddaaron (Jun 28, 2010)

I bought a used Miller 330A/BP TIG Welder for $500 and it is way more than capable of welding anything you could possibly come across in the biking world! It will do 460 Amps if needed, so penetration should not be a problem. lol It's a hoss though, weighing in at 850 pounds!!!!

There are cheaper TIGs that are only DC out there if you don't intend to weld aluminum, but you will need to AC for Aluminum. 

The only bad thing about using a torch is that some people say that you end up heating up the metal way outside the weld area itself causing a weakening of the surrounding metal in some cases. 

Also, a coat hanger does not ens up with as strong a weld as a welding rod made of the correct material for joining the metal you are working with. They make coat hangers out of all sorts of mixtures of what ever they have at the time that is cheapest. Welding rods are cheap insurance against getting a weak spot where your frame joins together. Not the best idea to cut corners on structural welding. Of course it really depends on how you ride and how much stress you put on your frame as to whether you would ever notice any difference. 

I'm not trying to come off as an ass or anything, just wanted to point out things that might not be obvious to someone in the future that might not have welding experience and may end up searching and finding this thread and end up thinking that using a coat hanger instead of a welding rod is just as good.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

toddaaron said:


> I'm not trying to come off as an ass or anything, just wanted to point out things that might not be obvious to someone in the future that might not have welding experience and may end up searching and finding this thread and end up thinking that using a coat hanger instead of a welding rod is just as good.


Toddaaron,

The coat hanger thing is a joke....Yes, I welded it with a coat hanger but of course one should never do that for a structural item such as a bike frame.

People BTW should stop searching the F'n web. At the very least you should always scrutinize anything said on the net. I always consider any information false until proven otherwise. Never in the history of man have so many unknowledgable imbeciles had a tool for spreading so much disinformation. 

So to agree with you 100%. Buy the correct welding rod. It costs practically nothing and is a better choice.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

dbohemian said:


> * At the very least you should always scrutinize anything said on the net. *
> 
> So to agree with you 100%. * By* the correct welding rod. It costs practically nothing and is a better choice.


Ah, the irony.... :thumbsup:


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## toddaaron (Jun 28, 2010)

dbohemian said:


> Toddaaron,
> 
> The coat hanger thing is a joke....Yes, I welded it with a coat hanger but of course one should never do that for a structural item such as a bike frame.
> 
> ...


I figured you had to be kidding, but I have actually seen the coat hanger thing used on structural welding before with a TIG welder. The guy ran out of TIG rods and grabbed a coat hanger and kept going. It was on a car! CRAZY!


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

toddaaron said:


> I figured you had to be kidding, but I have actually seen the coat hanger thing used on structural welding before with a TIG welder. The guy ran out of TIG rods and grabbed a coat hanger and kept going. It was on a car! CRAZY!


That's gross. No one should weld anything with coat hanger. I think welding rod is about the same price as coat hanger too, just buy some RG45 if you're going to try gas welding.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

OK so I want to get a welder. I have never done it but I know I would get its money's worth because it's something I have wanted to do for a few years but never bought, and when I buy something after putting it off for a few years, those purchases always turn out to be good, versus getting all worked up over something and buying it right away.

I plan to take a frame building course later this year which includes an intro to welding (on Chromo). I may take some real welding courses too. I want it to be able to weld steel and also I have many things around the house I often wish I could weld, like for instance I would like to make a mini wood stove out of a propane tank.

I can't imagine wanting to weld aluminum, I'm not a fan, so DC should be good, right? I don't like the acetylene idea because that would seem to cause too much softening of the surrounding metal, I just want to be able to do some arc welding, and brazing too. Is that acetylene?

I'm looking to spend $500 to $1000, what do you recommend?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Mark_BC said:


> OK so I want to get a welder. I have never done it but I know I would get its money's worth because it's something I have wanted to do for a few years but never bought, and when I buy something after putting it off for a few years, those purchases always turn out to be good, versus getting all worked up over something and buying it right away. I plan to take a frame building course later this year which includes an intro to welding (on Chromo). I may take some real welding courses too. I want it to be able to weld steel and also I have many things around the house I often wish I could weld, like for instance I would like to make a mini wood stove out of a propane tank. I can't imagine wanting to weld aluminum, I'm not a fan, so DC should be good, right? I don't like the acetylene idea because that would seem to cause too much softening of the surrounding metal, I just want to be able to do some arc welding, and brazing too. Is that acetylene? I'm looking to spend $500 to $1000, what do you recommend?


 Wait until you have completed your frame building course, then you will have gained some knowledge and experience to help guide you to a decision that best suits you.


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