# "super enduro" or free ride bike for lift access duties



## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

Has anyone used a something like a Intense Uzzi or Knolly Delirium as a dedicated DH bike? 

I'm upgrading from my Scott Voltage this season and considering the above bikes. Similar in travel as my current but with the ability to pedal. I have been lapping some out of bounds trails at my local lift access DH track which required a mild pedal. Also I dont ride super hard but a trail bike or enduro bike will not cut it. 


I have a nice trailbike so I need zero overlap in that department.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

add to the list a Canfield Balance...you will be very happy..pedals up hill and can take a lickin on heavy DH courses


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## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

looking for a 180mm travel. this really wont pedal uphill unless the lefts are closed. 

Also, im wondering if anyone had ditched their DH bike for one of these long travel enduro things.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

This is more to validate the concept... I use a Canfield One w/ a Dorado. Basically an early version of today's super enduro bikes. I love it. Straight lining through chunk - my (faster) DH bike friends pull away but cornering or pedalling sections or anything where you need to manuver the bike with finesse - it's the teets. 

While not your cup of tea - I can also pedal it and make a DH-esq run out of anything without needing to shuttle, push or a lift.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

I sold my DH bike in 2015 and went the FR route. Currently on a Knolly Delirium and was on a Spesh Enduro EVO before that. It doesn't have quite the same "I can mow down anything" a 200mm bike can give you, but when I'm fresh I can go just as fast as I did on my DH bikes. However, I tire out faster in rough terrain.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I have never owned a true DH bike in the sense that they are built today. I did have a SC Bullit w/ a Monster T and Avalanche DHS for a lot of years, and used it for DH racing and Rampage-type stuff. But as far as 200mm travel/64 degree HA bikes, I've never owned one, so my perceptions may be skewed.

Currently I have a bike like you described -- heavier duty/more aggressive than an enduro bike, but not quite a DH bike. It is a 2012 Spesh SX Trail; still has 26" wheels. I run Maxxis Minion 2.5s or HR IIs (2.5s as well) and climbed over 140,000 feet last season. I'm going for 200k this year. It weighs in at around 36 pounds.

Weight and "pedaling ability" are mind over matter. If you allow yourself to get strong, you can pedal a big bike fast. For me, this is the best bike I've ever owned. It has a 65 degree HA but I can still do burly climbs. And headed downhill it is just on rails. 180mm of travel is enough to do anything, IMO. Maybe if I was still DH racing I could shave some more time with a bit more travel and an even more aggressive geo -- but I think a bike in this category is a whole lot of fun -- and enough bike for 99% of situations that anyone encounters.

BTW I am almost 40 years old, have been riding since I was 6, and am faster on this bike now than I've ever been. For me, the "light/mini-DH" bike is the perfect setup.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm strongly looking at replacing a SC V10C with a 175/180mm travel bike this season. No more "Ah I wish I had my DH or 6" travel bike"


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## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

PUNKY said:


> I'm strongly looking at replacing a SC V10C with a 175/180mm travel bike this season. No more "Ah I wish I had my DH or 6" travel bike"


Yea, I'm not looking to replace the trail bike. Just wondering how many folks run a aggressive enduro, superenduro, freeride bike or whatever you wanna call it instead of a DH bike.


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## PrincipalRider (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't have a downhill bike anymore, so I used my pivot firebird the last time I went to the bike park. The firebird did great, but it was not quite as adept at just steamrolling through rock gardens or hitting very steep drop-ins. A downhill bike gives a little bit more room to make mistakes too. A bad landing on my downhill bike usually was just soaked up. That was not always the case with a shorter travel bike.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

kabaroo said:


> Yea, I'm not looking to replace the trail bike. Just wondering how many folks run a aggressive enduro, superenduro, freeride bike or whatever you wanna call it instead of a DH bike.


I have a Chromag Surface that takes almost all of my trail bike duties.


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## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

This is my answer to that question. This bike will convert from 19Xmm rear /200mm front to 170mm/170mm in less than 20 minutes. The long shock in the rear is an Avalanche Woodie in the DH configuration that is 8.875 X 2.875 (225 X 73mm) that I run with a 2mm offset bushing. The fork is a Fox 40 fitted with an Avy cartridge and orange spring. We still have snow here and my trip to NC got canceled. Heading to PA this weekend to get some time in on it. I'd like to build enough confidence to eliminate the need for the dual crown for park duties, but it's a nice crutch while I'm working on improving my skills. I would also consider the Balance, but it doesn't offer the same Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde option as the Delirium. Might go that way when I feel comfortable enough on the really big stuff with no dual crown.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Spidermatt said:


> View attachment 1127769
> 
> 
> This is my answer to that question. This bike will convert from 19Xmm rear /200mm front to 170mm/170mm in less than 20 minutes. The long shock in the rear is an Avalanche Woodie in the DH configuration that is 8.875 X 2.875 (225 X 73mm) that I run with a 2mm offset bushing. The fork is a Fox 40 fitted with an Avy cartridge and orange spring. We still have snow here and my trip to NC got canceled. Heading to PA this weekend to get some time in on it. I'd like to build enough confidence to eliminate the need for the dual crown for park duties, but it's a nice crutch while I'm working on improving my skills. I would also consider the Balance, but it doesn't offer the same Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde option as the Delirium. Might go that way when I feel comfortable enough on the really big stuff with no dual crown.


Nice, how big a ring clears cs there?


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## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm running a 32T with a 10-42 11-Speed XX1 cassette. I don't think there would be a problem going bigger, but haven't tried.


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## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

That is a nice setup. you pushed the rear to have more travel with a longer shock? is that offered by knolly or is that your creation?

I dont need this thing to be a trail bike. It will be lift access only, but it would nice to be able to pedal. by pedal I mean navigating traverse and accessing out of bounds areas, not pedaling to the top.


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## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

That is a nice setup. you pushed the rear to have more travel with a longer shock? is that offered by knolly or is that your creation?

I dont need this thing to be a trail bike. It will be lift access only, but it would nice to be able to pedal. by pedal I mean navigating traverse and accessing out of bounds areas, not pedaling to the top.


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## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

This shock is custom. You can take a stock shock 8.75 x 2.75 and get 188mm of rear suspension. If you are running a dual crown just adjust your clamp to get the proper bb height and HTA. If you are running single crown you might need an angleset and offset bushing. I will be switching back and forth from this dual crown with rear coil to a single crown with air shock depending on where I choose to ride it. Knolly has experimented with this, I don't think it is an option when ordering a frame yet.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

How much rear tire clearance do you have? With 6mm of offset bushings you could just about get the BB height back as long as you don't run into tire rub.


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## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

You can't offset the bushing more than 2mm. If your compressed I2I is less than 150mm the linkage will hit the seat tube. My shock is 225x73 with a 2mm offset it ends up being effectively 223X73 with a 150mm compressed I2I. The 222X70mm option (8.75 X 2.75) you will have the same compressed I2I with a 2mm bushing, but it also works without it. I was told by Knolly that if you used 2 2mm offset bushings that would give you 148mm compressed I2I and the linkage will hit the seat tube. I think the stock clearance is 10mm and with the 150mm compressed I2I it's half that.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

Good info danke. Not sure I'd be ok with raising the BB any higher. 26" rear might be a potential solve though.


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## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

The dual crown lets you sit the BB at 350, lower depending on the HTA. I haven't played with the long shock and single crown.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I've been on both the new Derelium and Balance, I thought the Balance was more fun but it was equipped with a rear coil and the Knolly had an air shock at the time.

I went the opposite route, had a freeride bike (banshee darkside), but when the trek session park 9.8 carbon's went on discontinued clearance end of last year I picked one up and here it is in trail mode just over 30 lbs (with 150mm dropper, front is a 180mm lyrik, rear travel is 190mm dhx2 with lockout lever). It goes sub 30 and feels like a long travel dj bike when I ditch the dropper and slam the seatpost with a short cut one. Also usually run a boxxer for DH season, but when the lifts are not running it works great for pedaling up (rear shock lockout is key) and is insanely playful and fun on the downhills. When you can get a carbon DH bike that light and climb it like a trail bike an enduro bike is kind of pointless. Only thing to watch for is seat post clearance, I had to get creative with mounting my 9point8 to get it in the right position.

A Pivot Firebird and Intense Uzzi would be two more to add to the list.


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## kabaroo (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm looking at 

2016 Delirium
2016 Uzzi

2016 Voltage which was my original choice but it seems like the 2 options above will equal Voltages abilities but add some pedaling ability.

2017 commencal furious looks neat too


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## TugboatComplex (Jul 17, 2012)

Banshee Darkside, or a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail. Throw a 180mm Metric on the front and use a coil in the rear on that GG. That'd be a great dedicated park bike that could pedal the flats awesome.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I used to ride a darkside everywhere, they pedal really well and are super supple over everything, but the frame weight is kind of heavy since no carbon options. The flip chips and 26 27.5 abilities are awesome too.


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## TugboatComplex (Jul 17, 2012)

Also flirted with the idea of a coiled Spesh Enduro with a lowered dual crown or also a metric.


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## home_piece (Nov 26, 2008)

My deliriums not yet let me down in the bike parks even when I had a 170 Lyric on there, and has also survived multiple 20km + trail rides. Can't comment on any of the others.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

TugboatComplex said:


> Also flirted with the idea of a coiled Spesh Enduro with a lowered dual crown or also a metric.


I had a '15. In stock form the geometry felt more tall AM bike then DH to me, but swapping the rear wheel to 26 made it come alive.


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

See also: NS Bikes Soda Evo

Air: NS Bikes 2017 - Stay True!
Coil: NS Bikes 2017 - Stay True!

I bought an Air about a year and a half ago, and I really like it. Since you're not looking to replace a trail bike, the Coil version might be a better fit.

Haven't been to a lift-served spot with it yet but might do that this year. I still have a Canfield Jedi for that, but it might be fun to ride the same trails on a bike that weighs about ten pounds less. And I spend 90% of my time on groomed trails rather than techy singletrack, so losing an inch of travel hopefully won't be an issue.

The stock components are underwhelming but it is also available as just a frame:
NS Bikes 2017 - Stay True!


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## TNC3 (May 19, 2010)

How does the saying go?..."if it's FREE, that means I can afford it" https://www.bikeparkpro.com/competitions/win-a-2017-pivot-firebird-bike/leaderboard/

The Pivot Firebird would be considered a super-enduro/lite freeride bike at 170mm front & rear travel.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

TNC3 said:


> How does the saying go?..."if it's FREE, that means I can afford it" https://www.bikeparkpro.com/competitions/win-a-2017-pivot-firebird-bike/leaderboard/
> 
> The Pivot Firebird would be considered a super-enduro/lite freeride bike at 170mm front & rear travel.


Do you need the 9 dollar pro pass to sign up?


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## bross_48 (Mar 7, 2016)

I race downhill on a Commencal Meta AM V4.2 (160mm rear, 170mm front) and I love it.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

Another long shocked Delirium. 200mm front, 185mm rear, full coil. 8.x75 x 2.75 shock, -2mm offset bushing and -1 headset cup.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

djjohnr said:


> Another long shocked Delirium. 200mm front, 185mm rear, full coil. 8.x75 x 2.75 shock, -2mm offset bushing and -1 headset cup.


That's a nice one!


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh ahhh



djjohnr said:


> Another long shocked Delirium. 200mm front, 185mm rear, full coil. 8.x75 x 2.75 shock, -2mm offset bushing and -1 headset cup.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

I did it for a year. 

6 in back 7 up front. Road Whistler:keystone:sol vista 

It sucked! Once I got my DH bike it was $$$


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

I have two bikes I'm going to try using for DH this year:

Megatrail with coil and 170mm fork, and my 2014 26" demo 8. 

Here in CO, I think it will depend on where I ride. Trestle the megatrail will be fine. Not sure about keystone or some of the rockier places. 

In all honesty, even if an enduro bike can handle it, I'll probably last longer on my demo 8 than the megatrail. 

Even if I use my demo 8 only a few times a year, it'll be worth it. However I'm not sure what I would do now if I was starting fresh. I think it depends where you do your DH. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

#1ORBUST said:


> I did it for a year.
> 
> 6 in back 7 up front. Road Whistler:keystone:sol vista
> 
> It sucked! Once I got my DH bike it was $$$


Yeah that for me would be big bike territory too.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

stripes said:


> I have two bikes I'm going to try using for DH this year:
> 
> Megatrail with coil and 170mm fork, and my 2014 26" demo 8.
> 
> ...


I ride keystone a few times a week once it opens, on the greens and blues I'm faster on a short travel trail bike but any of the blacks with rock gardens and it's faster and more fun on a dh bike.


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## joe213 (Oct 30, 2014)

I have a guerrilla Gravity Megatrail frame for sale with a coil shock. This would fit the bill very well

2016 Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail with extras (1050!) - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

PrincipalRider said:


> I don't have a downhill bike anymore, so I used my pivot firebird the last time I went to the bike park. The firebird did great, but it was not quite as adept at just steamrolling through rock gardens or hitting very steep drop-ins. A downhill bike gives a little bit more room to make mistakes too. A bad landing on my downhill bike usually was just soaked up. That was not always the case with a shorter travel bike.


this is the sole reason why I will always ride a DH bike.....I am too old if I crash and get hurt...I did something stupid the other day....jumped wrong and landed nose heave 90 degrees to ground but on a sideway angled landing....I was going "ohhh no" but the bike stuck and I made it out....with my enduro bike it would have been over....it is a crazy fine edge to choose which bike. I recommend both - but with carbon nowdays...you can get a good pedally DH bike under 35 pounds


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> this is the sole reason why I will always ride a DH bike.....I am too old if I crash and get hurt...I did something stupid the other day....jumped wrong and landed nose heave 90 degrees to ground but on a sideway angled landing....I was going "ohhh no" but the bike stuck and I made it out....with my enduro bike it would have been over....it is a crazy fine edge to choose which bike. I recommend both - but with carbon nowdays...you can get a good pedally DH bike under 35 pounds


Yeah see that's where I am now. As a relatively new DHer, I'd like to be able to keep riding. And while my megatrail has saved me in the past, as I try more advanced trails, I like the idea of less wear and tear on me. So for this season, I'm still riding my megatrail, but I'm also demoing a giant glory and a norco aurum.

I've already test ride the Trek Session. So I don't know how this will go, but I'll demo as many bikes as I can the next few weeks and decide.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

TugboatComplex said:


> Banshee Darkside, or a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail. Throw a 180mm Metric on the front and use a coil in the rear on that GG. That'd be a great dedicated park bike that could pedal the flats awesome.


Are you running your megatrail with a 180mm or 170mm fork?


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