# Manitou Mezzer



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

The Manitou Mezzer is here! lets get into some details!

37mm Chassis that is the stiffest single crown fork on the market. 

Torsionally, the Mezzer is 30% stiffer than a Fox 36, 16% stiffer than a Ohlins RFX36, 1% stiffer than a Lyrik

Fore-aft, the Mezzer is 7% stiffer than a 36, 20% stiffer than a RFX, and 4% stiffer than a Lyrik

140mm-180mm travel in both 27.5" and 29" wheel sizes. Boost 110 only. 37mm and 44mm offsets available for the 27.5 forks, 44mm and 51mm for 29"

2000g for a 180mm 27.5' fork

Dorado air spring with larger negative air chamber for linear initial stroke, IRT chamber volume has been reduced to add progression for the big hits.

Bladder style MC2 damper to reduce friction. 5 clicks HSC, 10 clicks LSC, 12 clicks LSR.

HBO circuit provides extra bottom out resistance for the last 30mm of the stroke. No external adjustment ( The IRT volume adjustment provides enough progressiveness that its not needed)

Bladder cartridge has a blow of valve (BOV) to prevent it from over filling between services. No ruptured bladders here.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks Nick!

Couple questions:

-when does the Mara make it on the website?



-why are the lowers still aluminum? is that just for cost? 

-how did they make this lighter than a Fox 36 using AL lowers?

-the spec weight is pretty much the same as the Mattoc, what did they do to compensate for the weight of the larger chassis to come in at same weight?

-what other "unprecedented features" does it have (besides stanchion size)?

Thanks!


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Dorado air spring with larger negative air chamber for linear initial stroke, IRT chamber volume has been reduced to add progression for the big hits.


Thats best features! Exactly what mattoc lacks.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

as far as I know, the lowers are magnesium on all the Manitou forks. I dont have any info stating they are aluminum

a lot of time and design went into making the Mezzer the stiffest chassis as possible at the lowest weight. 37mm stanchions are not just a marketing ploy to be bigger than everyone else. Testing showed they had the best strength to weight ratio. 

The fully sealed bladder damper is a big deal as well. lighter weight, higher performance. The BOV is a patent pending design to solve the biggest issue that bladder style cartridges have.

Make no mistake, this is not meant to be a budget fork. This fork was designed to be the best on the market.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

SUPER bummed its another damned sealed damper. What's the service procedure like?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> Thats best features! Exactly what mattoc lacks.


In reality, the Mattoc was designed to be a trail fork to compete with the Fox 34. The spring was tuned accordingly. With no Mezzer in the line up, people used it as a Pike/36 alternative. It did a great job punching above its weight class, but now it can fall back into place where it belongs.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> In reality, the Mattoc was designed to be a trail fork to compete with the Fox 34. The spring was tuned accordingly. With no Mezzer in the line up, people used it as a Pike/36 alternative. It did a great job punching above its weight class, but now it can fall back into place where it belongs.


so initial sensitivity is not allowed for trial riding? cmon... I know you will always have an answer


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> 37mm Chassis that is the stiffest single crown fork on the market.
> 
> Torsionally, the Mezzer is 30% stiffer than a Fox 36, 16% stiffer than a Ohlins RFX36, 1% stiffer than a Lyrik
> 
> Fore-aft, the Mezzer is 7% stiffer than a 36, 20% stiffer than a RFX, and 4% stiffer than a Lyrik


Who did this testing and what methods were used? I would like to see the data.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

scottzg said:


> SUPER bummed its another damned sealed damper. What's the service procedure like?


doesnt matter. It has to be lightest in its class. Not so far ago Manitou lovers was saying bladder is shitty solution.

PS joking a little bit. Im stoked to ride this fork.


----------



## areks (Jan 30, 2016)

crown to axle height?


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> as far as I know, the lowers are magnesium on all the Manitou forks. I dont have any info stating they are aluminum
> ...
> 
> Make no mistake, this is not meant to be a budget fork. This fork was designed to be the best on the market.


thanks. the marketing copy still shows "7050 aluminum" listed for leg material.

anyway to verify this? i think it would attract more buyers if mag, absent pics of verified weights.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

FactoryMatt said:


> thanks. the marketing copy still shows "7050 aluminum" listed for leg material.
> 
> anyway to verify this? i think it would attract more buyers if mag, absent pics of verified weights.


Leg material is referring to the stanchions


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Schulze said:


> Who did this testing and what methods were used? I would like to see the data.


I am not sure of the testing method, but I believe there are plots of the data. I will try to dig them up if I can (Im not a Manitou or Hayes employee, so my access is limited)


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> doesnt matter. It has to be lightest in its class. Not so far ago Manitou lovers was saying bladder is shitty solution.
> 
> PS joking a little bit. Im stoked to ride this fork.


Just my personal opinion, but bladder style dampers were issues in the past. I personally blew up 2 charger dampers (ruptured bladders), both times they had less than 20 hours on them. This is the issue with bladder style dampers.

There is no such thing as a perfect seal, bath oil will migrate past the rebound shaft seal into the damper on all designs. That is why the damper has a blow off to purge excess oil. Performance advantages of the bladder system without (my opinion) the biggest drawback.

As for servicing, I cant answer that as I have not worked on one. Manitou is pretty good at making products user serviceable, so I suspect it will be fairly easy for a tech savvy user.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> I am not sure of the testing method, but I believe there are plots of the data. I will try to dig them up if I can (Im not a Manitou or Hayes employee, so my access is limited)


interested in methods just because i didn't know Lyriks were regarded as significantly stiffer than Fox 36. pretty cool.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Just my personal opinion, but bladder style dampers were issues in the past. I personally blew up 2 charger dampers (ruptured bladders), both times they had less than 20 hours on them. This is the issue with bladder style dampers.
> 
> There is no such thing as a perfect seal, bath oil will migrate past the rebound shaft seal into the damper on all designs. That is why the damper has a blow off to purge excess oil. Performance advantages of the bladder system without (my opinion) the biggest drawback.
> 
> As for servicing, I cant answer that as I have not worked on one. Manitou is pretty good at making products user serviceable, so I suspect it will be fairly easy for a tech savvy user.


I will not defend charger, but owned pike and own boxxer. None blew out. None migrate oil. I have mattoc. Oil migration into negative spring chamber and into damper. Its not perfect but its damper is superior.

Anyway I hope mezzer is closest to perfect than the rest of its competitor. At least details are promising. If its mattoc with improved volumes of air spring, stiffer with more travel, less seal drag in damper. Thats the winner.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> I will not defend charger, but owned pike and own boxxer. None blew out. None migrate oil. I have mattoc. Oil migration into negative spring chamber and into damper. Its not perfect but its damper is superior.
> 
> Anyway I hope mezzer is closest to perfect than the rest of its competitor. At least details are promising. If its mattoc with improved volumes of air spring, stiffer with more travel, less seal drag in damper. Thats the winner.


In Rock shox defense, both the dampers I ruptured where charger 1 dampers with seal heads that were redesigned after the first year. they still ingest oil, but not at the rate they did at first and ruptures have been regulated to those who dont service their forks. The blow off on the MC2 just lengthens service intervals to prevent possible issues.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

FactoryMatt said:


> interested in methods just because i didn't know Lyriks were regarded as significantly stiffer than Fox 36. pretty cool.


Yep, i remember reading one of those german mags testing fork deflection on a work bench and their results didn't jive with my own experience. Did a little testing on my own with a torque wrench and realized they were basically testing how tight the build tolerances were- their torque value was too low for it to mean anything on the trail.


----------



## Apolonios (Mar 3, 2016)

I'm not familiar with the workings of Manitou forks .

How does the progression work? How us it adjusted??

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Any word on if the rest of the lineup is going to get reduced offsets as well?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Apolonios said:


> I'm not familiar with the workings of Manitou forks .
> 
> How does the progression work? How us it adjusted??
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


pressure in IRT.

https://nsmb.com/media/images/FerdaNerds.original.jpg


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)




----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


>


nice and interesting description.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

nikon255 said:


> nice and interesting description.


Agreed. Nice to see a little more about it. Can't wait for a teardown video and the service videos to start popping up. Wondering what the "Comp" level version will end up getting rid of? Maybe the IRT but have the ability to add aftermarket? Maybe DoradoAir changes to something else?

Absolutely love that they are finally jumping on the boat for the different fork offsets.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Agreed. Nice to see a little more about it. Can't wait for a teardown video and the service videos to start popping up. Wondering what the "Comp" level version will end up getting rid of? Maybe the IRT but have the ability to add aftermarket? Maybe DoradoAir changes to something else?
> 
> Absolutely love that they are finally jumping on the boat for the different fork offsets.


From the info I have, comp model will have expert air (dame as dorado air but with a steel shaft to keep costs down), the vtt damper(doesn't mention if it will be a cartridge or not), and IVA instead of IRT.

It does mention that the chassis will be the same in the info, so it's likely it will be upgradable to pro internals.


----------



## C-H (Jan 25, 2018)

OK, interesting but I'm getting tired of all the '% stiffer than.....' claims.
How TF is that even measured? 
Adding up all the '% stiffer than..." from the past 20 years we should be running granite forks and equipment by now.

Price? / Pics? / Reviews?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

C-H said:


> OK, interesting but I'm getting tired of all the '% stiffer than.....' claims.
> How TF is that even measured?
> Adding up all the '% stiffer than..." from the past 20 years we should be running granite forks and equipment by now.
> 
> Price? / Pics? / Reviews?


$999 MSRP (USD). Availability is about 2 weeks out, user reviews shortly after I would guess. Press initial thoughts should be posted shortly I would think, there are test bikes in Garda for the enduro this weekend.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Axle-Crown measurements are up on my site: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes/new-releases/manitou-mezzer

574mm for 27"
594mm for 29"


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

C-H said:


> Adding up all the '% stiffer than..." from the past 20 years we should be running granite forks and equipment by now.


We are. Have you ridden an old bike lately?

10 years ago I bought and built a 1997 Marin Team Marin steel hardtail. Took it for one ride and realised how much my riding had changed in the 15 years prior. Sold it.
That was compared to the other mid 00 vintage bikes I was riding at the time. I still have those mid 00 bikes and they're noodles compared to my current bikes.

The whole front end stiffness increase from wider hubs, wider forks, tapered steerers and bigger bars is huge.

The only forks that had any stiffness back in the day were 5-6lb. Manitou Sherman and Travis were literally tanks. But the wider stance of forks now means we've got even more stiffness and a lot less weight.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


>


Very nice and I am really happy to see the graphics. Takes me back to 1991.


----------



## Apolonios (Mar 3, 2016)

nikon255 said:


> pressure in IRT.
> 
> https://nsmb.com/media/images/FerdaNerds.original.jpg


Thanks.

So I'm assuming it's just a secondary air chamber, that affects end of travel?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Apolonios said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So I'm assuming it's just a secondary air chamber, that affects end of travel?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yes, two positive air chambers with the 2nd (IRT) adding mid stroke support and bottom resistance. The IRT system allows for a bunch of different spring curves from close to linear to very progressive with the ability to tune different parts of the stroke specifically.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> From the info I have, comp model will have expert air (dame as dorado air but with a steel shaft to keep costs down), the vtt damper(doesn't mention if it will be a cartridge or not), and IVA instead of IRT.
> 
> It does mention that the chassis will be the same in the info, so it's likely it will be upgradable to pro internals.


its an open bath damper in the comp.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

So 37mm offset only available on non-boost 27.5" fork?

Looks like another good option.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Im still riding and still gushing over my mattoc. The only marginal complaint I ever had was that it's not all that stiff at 160mm, with me at 210lb. This fixes that!


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

One Pivot said:


> Im still riding and still gushing over my mattoc. The only marginal complaint I ever had was that it's not all that stiff at 160mm, with me at 210lb. This fixes that!


which damper do you have? Have you pulled it apart?

I'm lookin really hard at this fork for an upcoming enormous 29er hardtail build, and your endorsement carries a lot of weight to me.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

mike156 said:


> So 37mm offset only available on non-boost 27.5" fork?
> 
> Looks like another good option.


There will be a non Boost option?


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

scottzg said:


> which damper do you have? Have you pulled it apart?
> 
> I'm lookin really hard at this fork for an upcoming enormous 29er hardtail build, and your endorsement carries a lot of weight to me.


Well thank you. I have the expert, so it's full open. I haven't opened it, but I probably will at the end of summer.

I'm not thrilled about a bladder, but Manitou has been surprising me for a while now. I'm big on diy and I hope Manitou sticks with it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> Yes, two positive air chambers with the 2nd (IRT) adding mid stroke support and bottom resistance. The IRT system allows for a bunch of different spring curves from close to linear to very progressive with the ability to tune different parts of the stroke specifically.


Referring to the difference in initial sensitivity of fox evol air and the lyrics rc2 debonair, did they improve the mezzer s negative springs size, the sealing and tolerances so that the mezzer is going to match or surpass the lyriks sensitivity? The mattoc lacked in that department.

The solo air Dorado air was far too saggy with less midstroke support. Love the irt, BUT I dislike that they reduzed the IRTs size on the mezzer. Will that not lead to lesssss midstroke support, the irt was originally designed for? Or have they changed the Dorado air that way that it will have more midstroke support itself?


----------



## C-H (Jan 25, 2018)

Dougal said:


> We are. Have you ridden an old bike lately?
> 
> 10 years ago I bought and built a 1997 Marin Team Marin steel hardtail. Took it for one ride and realised how much my riding had changed in the 15 years prior. Sold it.
> That was compared to the other mid 00 vintage bikes I was riding at the time. I still have those mid 00 bikes and they're noodles compared to my current bikes.
> ...


Yeah, my early '00 Rocky Mountain Element Race.
A light XC race machine. There's no noodle about that frame. Climbs great, quick and nimble.
Kris King 36 spoke hubs + Mavic X819 Disc rims, tubeless setup. Stiff and light.
True, the fork isn't the the best (Manitou Black) but it's not even close to be a noodle POS.

So... true the new stuff is great but the old stuff is not even close to being junk. Just tired of all the KoolAid marketing babble and most eat it up without thinking. Based on marketing and the latest hype I would have been better off just walking back in the day.
There are tons of new equipment (forks for example) that are just built cheaply compared to the older stuff. My old Manitou was built better than my '18 RS Pike RCT3.
The new one piece cassettes... well they are nice but WTF. If one tooth breaks or bends I'm out $200. Old one, well just replace that cog/ring/gear with a new one.

Soapbox time over for now.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> Referring to the difference in initial sensitivity of fox evol air and the lyrics rc2 debonair, did they improve the mezzer s negative springs size, the sealing and tolerances so that the mezzer is going to match or surpass the lyriks sensitivity? The mattoc lacked in that department.
> 
> The solo air Dorado air was far too saggy with less midstroke support. Love the irt, BUT I dislike that they reduzed the IRTs size on the mezzer. Will that not lead to lesssss midstroke support, the irt was originally designed for? Or have they changed the Dorado air that way that it will have more midstroke support itself?


Bigger negative - more supplenes and better midstroke
Smaller irt - better progression, I'd say the same midstroke support. Mattoc irt was too big, resulting in flatty endstroke or you have to pump up crazy pressure.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> So 37mm offset only available on non-boost 27.5" fork?
> 
> Looks like another good option.





davideb87 said:


> There will be a non Boost option?


Boost only. Reduced offset is a different crown and I'm still awaiting model codes for those options.



One Pivot said:


> Well thank you. I have the expert, so it's full open. I haven't opened it, but I probably will at the end of summer.
> 
> I'm not thrilled about a bladder, but Manitou has been surprising me for a while now. I'm big on diy and I hope Manitou sticks with it.


Manitou have historically been huge on picking a size and sticking with it for maximum interchange. Their current 30mm seals are backwards compatible to the 2000 Xvert. 32mm seals to the 2003 Shermans, 34mm seals to the 2006 Nixon etc.
So I'd expect any bladder will be available for a long time and servicable with normal tools. Most likely a syringe bleed system like brakes.



bansaiman said:


> Referring to the difference in initial sensitivity of fox evol air and the lyrics rc2 debonair, did they improve the mezzer s negative springs size, the sealing and tolerances so that the mezzer is going to match or surpass the lyriks sensitivity? The mattoc lacked in that department.
> 
> The solo air Dorado air was far too saggy with less midstroke support. Love the irt, BUT I dislike that they reduzed the IRTs size on the mezzer. Will that not lead to lesssss midstroke support, the irt was originally designed for? Or have they changed the Dorado air that way that it will have more midstroke support itself?


The engineers know what they're doing. This is their first chance to layout a new air spring with positive/negative and IRT to get exactly the curve they wanted.
Previous Dorado and Mattoc forks had positive/negative air first and IRT came along later.



C-H said:


> Yeah, my early '00 Rocky Mountain Element Race.
> A light XC race machine. There's no noodle about that frame. Climbs great, quick and nimble.
> Kris King 36 spoke hubs + Mavic X819 Disc rims, tubeless setup. Stiff and light.
> True, the fork isn't the the best (Manitou Black) but it's not even close to be a noodle POS.
> ...


The black wasn't an XC race fork. It was the biggest fork Manitou had outside the Xvert/Dorado dual crowns when it was launched in 2002. It was the fork specced on an Intense Uzzi SLX. I have both here.
The stanchions while being 30mm OD are over twice as thick in the wall than many forks today.

They basically halved the stanchion wall thickness to make the XC version (Manitou R7) in 2006 and even then it held a 150kg E-bike and cargo-bike rating when it was stopped in 2018.

The 2000 XC race fork was the 28.6mm Manitou MARS (which became the Skareb when they went reverse arch). I have one on my commuter bike which hangs in the garage and hasn't been ridden for 10 years.


----------



## C-H (Jan 25, 2018)

Yes you are right, it's not a super light XC fork but it's not really heavy either.
The bike is overforked for sure. It's the 100/120 mm version and the frame is designed for 80/100 mm (I run/ran 120 mm most of the time).

I always liked Manitou for some reason. Also got a '00 Manitou X-Vert Air 105 (single crown) laying around. TPC+ damper, MRD crown. Really really nice fork.








Anyhow. All good just needed to rant a bit.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Boost only. Reduced offset is a different crown and I'm still awaiting model codes for those options.
> 
> Manitou have historically been huge on picking a size and sticking with it for maximum interchange. Their current 30mm seals are backwards compatible to the 2000 Xvert. 32mm seals to the 2003 Shermans, 34mm seals to the 2006 Nixon etc.
> So I'd expect any bladder will be available for a long time and servicable with normal tools. Most likely a syringe bleed system like brakes.
> ...


OK, thx.

When will the 29er 44mm offset be available in Europe, Germany? Do you know?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> OK, thx.
> 
> When will the 29er 44mm offset be available in Europe, Germany? Do you know?


I don't have shipping confirmation for reduced offset versions yet.

From my perspective the reduced offset models are the ones in demand.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

nikon255 said:


> Bigger negative - more supplenes and better midstroke
> Smaller irt - better progression, I'd say the same midstroke support. Mattoc irt was too big, resulting in flatty endstroke or you have to pump up crazy pressure.


I reckon it wouldn't be too hard to reduce the IRT volume on the Mcttoc by reducing the shaft length if you'd really want to.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

CS645 said:


> I reckon it wouldn't be too hard to reduce the IRT volume on the Mcttoc by reducing the shaft length if you'd really want to.


Its not so easy. The whole spring needs proper ratios between main and IRT. In mattoc at 160 main and IRT are too big, while negative is too small. I have foam from Suntour to reduce volume of IRT. Fits perfectly. With reduced IRT and ratio 2,5 between main and IRT, it works best for me. Supple initial and enough ramp up. Closest to coil.

I bet mezzer has it worked out for perfect ratios as they mention some improvements to air spring.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

mullen119 said:


>


This guy is one of the better product explainers I've seen. I like how each feature has a purpose.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I take it changing travel will be as simple as the other Manitou forks?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> I reckon it wouldn't be too hard to reduce the IRT volume on the Mcttoc by reducing the shaft length if you'd really want to.


Just put a spacer on the shaft. Easy to try and completely reversable.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bdundee said:


> I take it changing travel will be as simple as the other Manitou forks?


Correct. Spacers will be included with every fork


----------



## imbecile (Mar 14, 2007)

Thank God the stupid thread-into-lowers shaft design of the Mattoc is gone! Fox style assembly with a nut is MUCH more user friendly and MUCH less prone to stripping the threads in the lowers or ovalizing the moronic 8mm hex on the air shaft! (Don't ask me how I know and why I've got RS product in the front now).
Phew, now I have no reason to NOT go back to Manitou  Oh well, time to start saving some cash....


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Just put a spacer on the shaft. Easy to try and completely reversable.


That sounds a lot smarter!


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

imbecile said:


> View attachment 1249959
> 
> 
> Thank God the stupid thread-into-lowers shaft design of the Mattoc is gone! Fox style assembly with a nut is MUCH more user friendly and MUCH less prone to stripping the threads in the lowers or ovalizing the moronic 8mm hex on the air shaft! (Don't ask me how I know and why I've got RS product in the front now).
> Phew, now I have no reason to NOT go back to Manitou  Oh well, time to start saving some cash....


That looks like the normal setup. You probably use (I don't know this) the same mattoc set up with the thin walled socket that removes the air side and the Allen key that turns clockwise to loosen the damper side.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

nikon255 said:


> Its not so easy. The whole spring needs proper ratios between main and IRT. In mattoc at 160 main and IRT are too big, while negative is too small. I have foam from Suntour to reduce volume of IRT. Fits perfectly. With reduced IRT and ratio 2,5 between main and IRT, it works best for me. Supple initial and enough ramp up. Closest to coil.
> 
> I bet mezzer has it worked out for perfect ratios as they mention some improvements to air spring.


Are you saying you are running a 2.5:1 ratio in the IRT? So for 50 PSI in main you are running 125 in the IRT? What were you running before reducing the IRT volume?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I would gladly give up 3.265% of stiffness for a forward facing crown.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

bdundee said:


> I would gladly give up 3.265% of stiffness for a forward facing crown.


Why? The engineering advantage of the rear facing crown makes sense.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Why? The engineering advantage of the rear facing crown makes sense.


Strictly and stupidly for my own vanity.

On a side not the new line routing is much better.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bdundee said:


> Strictly and stupidly for my own vanity.


Just put Fox stickers on it. Most people at the trailhead have never heard of Manitou before and you can tell them it is a prototype.


----------



## imbecile (Mar 14, 2007)

Vespasianus said:


> That looks like the normal setup. You probably use (I don't know this) the same mattoc set up with the thin walled socket that removes the air side and the Allen key that turns clockwise to loosen the damper side.


Well, I do see a nut when I zoom in...or at least my brain's doing some additional detailing to make me see it  Soon enough there'll be more detailed pictures.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

The creator of Morvelo was on a pod recently and dropped an interesting factoid: mountain riders prefer mainstream brands more when compared to road riders. Morvelo is an alternative brand with the ethos of comfortable, affordable and stylish cycling gear. Their road stuff sells well but they’re struggling to get the mountain stuff to take off. This is super interesting when you think about the perception of mountain riding being about counter culture, the risk taking, thrill seeking individual.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> The creator of Morvelo was on a pod recently and dropped an interesting factoid: mountain riders prefer mainstream brands more when compared to road riders. Morvelo is an alternative brand with the ethos of comfortable, affordable and stylish cycling gear. Their road stuff sells well but they're struggling to get the mountain stuff to take off. This is super interesting when you think about the perception of mountain riding being about counter culture, the risk taking, thrill seeking individual.


I think it has more to do with road bikes being a mature product, whereas the mtb market has a history of weird-balls innovation and using the consumer to test product. MTBers want the latest and greatest, but they want the backing of an established company that needs to ensure that the product builds on their previous reputation.

More related to this thread, imo the suspension fork market today is a reflection of the reliability problems from the 2007-2010 mass production outsourcing to asia.

-RS did it first and well, and they emerged as the titans of forks, despite moco being somewhat mediocre even at the time.

-Fox, i don't remember what they did, but they avoided reliability problems during this time period and emerged unscathed.

-Marzo and Manitou had a couple years of QC problems, and they've never recovered the public perception.

-CC, MRP, and DVO emerged later, and aren't given so much skepticism.

Now RockFox widely marketed and is on all the production builds. People see it as desirable and everyone knows their quirks.  Whether they're truly making the best product is less important.



bdundee said:


> On a side not the new line routing is much better.


Why?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

scottzg said:


> Why?


For the same reason they changed it.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Schulze said:


> This guy is one of the better product explainers I've seen. I like how each feature has a purpose.


that dude's legit. even more faith in hayes after watching that. no nonsense.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> The creator of Morvelo was on a pod recently and dropped an interesting factoid: mountain riders prefer mainstream brands more when compared to road riders. Morvelo is an alternative brand with the ethos of comfortable, affordable and stylish cycling gear. Their road stuff sells well but they're struggling to get the mountain stuff to take off. This is super interesting when you think about the perception of mountain riding being about counter culture, the risk taking, thrill seeking individual.


interesting tidbit. a local shop was telling me how riders came in wanting kashima fox transfers over the Bikeyoke droppers the shop builds with no matter how much the shop pleaded with them to take the better functioning Revive.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Got to say, I am a little sad I have my DVO fork coming for my 29" build and not one of these (though I've had quite good luck with DVO in the past). Looks like a good option and I'm excited to hear reviews.

Thanks for the video link as well. Looks pretty legit.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bdundee said:


> For the same reason they changed it.


It has the old routing as well, they give you the option on how you want to route it.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> It has the old routing as well, they give you the option on how you want to route it.


Ahh sweet, Manitou rocks!! Now I'm hoping they make the Mara in a 185x55 trunnion.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

bdundee said:


> For the same reason they changed it.


They included the option to run it like a front-crowned fork because some people asked for it.

If anything, the old routing is better because it doesn't touch your lowers and it's less likely to get snagged.


----------



## neb (Aug 12, 2008)

scottzg said:


> They included the option to run it like a front-crowned fork because some people asked for it.
> 
> If anything, the old routing is better because it doesn't touch your lowers and it's less likely to get snagged.


That depends on whether you run your front brake on the left or right side of your handlebars.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

neb said:


> That depends on whether you run your front brake on the left or right side of your handlebars.


As a lefty, i know how it is when you wanna do everything backward.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I just didn't care for the routing on my Mastodon at all.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Here are the stiffness testing plots. Foot sounds of force vs displacement. The lower the line, the less the fork flexed under testing


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

what about the 27.5


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

POAH said:


> what about the 27.5


Those are the only plots Im aware of.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice figures, mullen. I have examined them. 

I cannot interpret the first figure because I do not know what the maximum torsional force would be on a fork. It could be 100lbs and then the results would be 1mm apart which is insignificant. It seems that this would be controlled by tire side traction. I think I could measure this but it would take some effort. 

The fore-aft is more useful because a simple calculation would yield a typical force during a panic stop. But it seems they could have gone higher. 

The differences are so small that I would like to see a sample size. If this is just one fork being tested, there could be variations in bushing tolerance that would change the result.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I asked this in the "spotted" thread but here is more appropriate:

What's the max tire size of the Mezzer in 275 and 29 models?

DERP! From Shockcraft:

"Mezzer 27"
140-180 mm travel
110 x 15 mm boost axle
Tapered steerer tube
Bolt on mudguard fender
*Fits 2.8" tyre without fender, 2.6" with.*
Disc brake only (180+ mm post mount)
44 mm Offset (37mm version coming)
574mm Axle-Crown measurement (180mm)
2000 g (4.4 lb)

Mezzer 29"
140-180 mm travel
110 x 15 mm boost axle
Tapered steerer tube
Bolt on mudguard fender
*Fits 2.8" tyre without fender, 2.6" with.*
Disc brake only (180+ mm post mount)
51 mm Offset (44mm version coming)
594mm Axle-Crown measurement (180mm)
2032 g (4.4 lb)"

So here's mayber a better question: what's the width between the stanchions? As in, what's the widest 275+ tire I could run in the 29" model?


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Schulze said:


> Nice figures, mullen. I have examined them.
> 
> I cannot interpret the first figure because I do not know what the maximum torsional force would be on a fork. It could be 100lbs and then the results would be 1mm apart which is insignificant. It seems that this would be controlled by tire side traction. I think I could measure this but it would take some effort.
> 
> ...


While all of your points are valid, I doubt any suspension manufacture would take the time to power a study to determine true statistical significance in these numbers.

Thinking about it, does anybody show graphs about the stiffness? I remember in the old days, road bikes used to have fork deflection and stiffness scores. I doubt anybody does that anymore.

I would say the take home message would be, we are as stiff as the rest.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

mullen119 said:


> Those are the only plots Im aware of.


Do you know when this fork will be available in the USA?

Thanks


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

So im glad they beefed it up, but who cares. As long as the MC2 functions basically the same, this fork has an absolute trail erasing damper setup. If you're stuck on the arch, or the sticker, or even how stiff a 37mm 2000+g fork is, I think you're missing 95% of what makes this fork, this fork. Theres no way this thing is not stiff.

We need ride reports and input. It took real riders putting in miles with the mattoc to basically put manitou back on the map. 

FWIW, I love the reverse arch! Im not riding a fox or RS fork, and I'm glad im not. I like that it stands out as uniquely a manitou product. Its not a copy or a knockoff of something else, it stands alone and is what it is.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

elsinore said:


> Do you know when this fork will be available in the USA?
> 
> Thanks


mid may according to the website


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Tire size max is 2.8 with no fender. 3.0 or larger is considered plus tires.

In theory, you could go 27.5x.3.0 or possibly even wider with a mezzer 29 since 27.5+ and 29 are essentially the same size. That is not official though.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Tire size max is 2.8 with no fender. 3.0 or larger is considered plus tires.
> 
> In theory, you could go 27.5x.3.0 or possibly even wider with a mezzer 29 since 27.5+ and 29 are essentially the same size. That is not official though.


Point well made. However, pedantic people will argue plus starts at 2.6


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Point well made. However, pedantic people will argue plus starts at 2.6


I wouldn't argue against them either. That's why it should be considered a bonus that you can run 2.8 with no fender.

You can't make everyone happy. If the they could run 3.0 tires, people running 2.4-2.5 tires would complain about the extra A2C it takes to achieve those numbers.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What limits the travel to 140mm? I.e. if you wanted to run this fork at 130mm could you?


----------



## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

cassieno said:


> What limits the travel to 140mm? I.e. if you wanted to run this fork at 130mm could you?


From a logical point of view, my guess is that the stanchion shaft is still rather long, so the lowest it can go is 140mm travel?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cassieno said:


> What limits the travel to 140mm? I.e. if you wanted to run this fork at 130mm could you?





Shadow4eva said:


> From a logical point of view, my guess is that the stanchion shaft is still rather long, so the lowest it can go is 140mm travel?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can shrink a fork to 0 travel if you want. But going too low means the air chambers end up very different size to design. You would likely need volume reduction in negative and positive to get it feeling good.

What Manitou are saying is, this fork willl run great between 140-180mm. If you want less than 140mm you should be looking at our other forks.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

cassieno said:


> What limits the travel to 140mm? I.e. if you wanted to run this fork at 130mm could you?


Technically speaking, you can run at any travel you want.

The only issue is that as you add travel spacers, you also add to the negative spring volume. Once you get to 140mm, the spring volume becomes too large and the soring rate can suffer.


----------



## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

Dougal said:


> You can shrink a fork to 0 travel if you want. But going too low means the air chambers end up very different size to design. You would likely need volume reduction in negative and positive to get it feeling good.
> 
> What Manitou are saying is, this fork willl run great between 140-180mm. If you want less than 140mm you should be looking at our other forks.


Ah, that explains it! I come from a computer background, so I have some difficulty understanding mechanical and engineering stuff at times..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

i still am in awe that the lyrik tested substantially stiffer than the 36. 

i think that pretty much everyone assumes the 36 is the stiffest.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

36 is most expensive, I think people just draw assumptions from that.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> i still am in awe that the lyrik tested substantially stiffer than the 36.
> 
> i think that pretty much everyone assumes the 36 is the stiffest.


Fox probably loses stiffness on crown/stanchion fit. There's a lot of movement (and noise) there.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

FactoryMatt said:


> i still am in awe that the lyrik tested substantially stiffer than the 36.
> 
> i think that pretty much everyone assumes the 36 is the stiffest.


Those German bikemagszines regularly to test torsional and fire aft stiffness in their review by machines and not only feelings :-D
And it shows in deed that the Lyrik is stiffer than the 36


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Very broad question.

How will this compare to the Dorado?

I'm a huge Manitou fan, loved every piece of kit I've had from them.

Just curious, will this be like a 1kg lighter Dorado or will it have a different feel?

Ta


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

CaveGiant said:


> Very broad question.
> 
> How will this compare to the Dorado?
> 
> ...


That is a very broad question simply because you are talking about a comparison between two totally different genre. It would be like comparing a 4wd truck and a Subaru with AWD in their abilities offroad.

Due to the dual crown structure, longer stanchions, etc. you are going to have a much different feel from the Dorado than you would with the Mezzer (single point of torsional contact vs. two points). But in generalities, you could probably say that the Mezzer is aimed at being the "burly little brother" of the Dorado.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The dorado is only 10ish millimeters taller than the mezzer at 180, but the offsets are quite different. 

... the mezzer might feel more stable? Or more floppy, depending on how you feel about offset. I'm digging lower offsets, but I'm not on a huge ultra slack bike. I think damping will be comparable.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Fox probably loses stiffness on crown/stanchion fit. There's a lot of movement (and noise) there.


Can you give some info on how it rides in comparison to a lyrik rc2 or avy tuned fork?


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> Can you give some info on how it rides in comparison to a lyrik rc2 or avy tuned fork?


Avy tuned fork would not be a "fair" comparison as you are talking about a fork that has been specifically tuned for a riders style, terrain, weight, etc. to a stock aftermarket fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> Very broad question.
> 
> How will this compare to the Dorado?
> 
> ...


Can't comment on the Mezzer vs Dorado as my Mezzer hasn't shipped yet. But I stopped riding my Dorado once I had a 170mm Mattoc. I sold it shortly after. The Mattoc wasn't better than the Dorado, but the Mattoc did 95% of everything I needed and 170mm was close enough to 200mm.

There is a major Dorado update coming. So expect exactly the same performance, just more travel and stiffness from the Dorado.

__
http://instagr.am/p/BxcKG1siODQ/



bansaiman said:


> Can you give some info on how it rides in comparison to a lyrik rc2 or avy tuned fork?


The Lyrik RC2 has not enough damping for my 70kg. I haven't ridden an avalanche tuned fork.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Can't comment on the Mezzer vs Dorado as my Mezzer hasn't shipped yet. But I stopped riding my Dorado once I had a 170mm Mattoc. I sold it shortly after. The Mattoc wasn't better than the Dorado, but the Mattoc did 95% of everything I needed and 170mm was close enough to 200mm.
> 
> There is a major Dorado update coming. So expect exactly the same performance, just more travel and stiffness from the Dorado.
> 
> ...


But you coupd tell in which deoartments it has major benefits over the msttoc... Except stiffness


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Avy tuned fork would not be a "fair" comparison as you are talking about a fork that has been specifically tuned for a riders style, terrain, weight, etc. to a stock aftermarket fork.


I know that difference which a soecifically tuned stack brings..... BUT tge question is if the damper is basucally as potent as the the avy?fitting other shimstack is no voodoo and friends if mine and do it ourselves.but would be nuce to know what we can expect


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gregnash said:


> Avy tuned fork would not be a "fair" comparison as you are talking about a fork that has been specifically tuned for a riders style, terrain, weight, etc. to a stock aftermarket fork.


It shouldn't be fair to compare a stock McLeod to custom tuned shocks either. But look how well that turned out!

Manitou has always had the best damping and that's why I've been riding them for 24 years now (since I stuck an EFC hydraulic damper cartridge in my 1995 Magnum).



bansaiman said:


> But you coupd tell in which deoartments it has major benefits over the msttoc... Except stiffness


I'm expecting better small bump response and longer maintenance intervals. I'm 100% happy with the damping on my Mattoc (with my high flow piston). So I'll be stoked if they can improve on that.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Anybody have a ride report on the Mezzer?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Anybody have a ride report on the Mezzer?


Shipping 1st July is the best info right now.

So no.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Shipping 1st July is the best info right now.
> 
> So no.


Just bought a new fork and am already ready to dump it for the Mezzer


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

wonder if the larger stanchions contribute to more static friction than a lyrik.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Interesting question, I’d like for someone with more knowledge to answer that. But I always thought “low friction” wiper seals were bs, cause they should be heavily greased and aren’t pressurized. 

If the airspring sealing surface is larger I could see that increasing friction.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> wonder if the larger stanchions contribute to more static friction than a lyrik.


Unless you've got truely awful seals, the most friction comes from the bushings. Lately we've found a lot of quite tight Lyrik and F36 bushings that need burnishing to slide well. I don't know if that's a concious decision to stiffen up the fork or not.



PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Interesting question I would like for someone with more knowledge to answer that. But I always thought "low friction" wiper seals were bs, cause they should be heavily greased and aren't pressurized.


"Low Friction" seals work in either/or two ways. Firstly is reduced tension (which reduces sealing) and the second is allowing a film of oil past.

The film of oil can be seen as a glossy sheen on the stanchions and it does mean bath oil gets depleted faster.

But it's worth it.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

So after riding a coil fork last week I've been thinking about how to really soften up the initial stroke of a fork while still getting good mid-stroke and bottom out support. 

I've asked this before, and I've seen it more recently on the DT Swiss 535 - a coil spring that softens the initial travel before switching to the air spring. 

It sounds like Manitou might have used something similar in the past. 

Now, Manitou is doing this with the IRT air spring design, allowing independently tuned Negative chamber, Independently tuned Positive chamber, and a secondary chamber with transfer port for more mid-stroke support. 

My question is this: does anything on the market allow a similar air spring feel? I know MRP allows independent adjustment of the negative air spring. Can Ramp Control be used to mimic another air chamber ala IRT?


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

MRP Ribbon's separate negative chamber is to soften the initial stroke. DVO's OTT adjustment is a negative spring to soften the initial stoke.

Ramp Control is completely different idea. Think of it as an air spring side (instead of damper) high speed compression control. It's connected to the positive spring and if it resembles anything it's volume spacers (but it's not that either). 

Initial stroke for MRP is all in the separate negative spring.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

PHeller said:


> So after riding a coil fork last week I've been thinking about how to really soften up the initial stroke of a fork while still getting good mid-stroke and bottom out support.
> 
> I've asked this before, and I've seen it more recently on the DT Swiss 535 - a coil spring that softens the initial travel before switching to the air spring.
> 
> ...


yes - https://diazsuspensiondesign.com/runt


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

FactoryMatt said:


> yes - https://diazsuspensiondesign.com/runt


Yup that is what came to mind for me as well. For lack of a better term it is similar to the IRT and OTT of Manitou and DVO.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

but the Runt only control the positive side of the air spring, so I assume that having control over the negative side of the spring would be advantageous as well, right? 

So for example, something like the MRP Ribbon combined with the Runt might make for a IRT-like air spring?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

PHeller said:


> but the Runt only control the positive side of the air spring, so I assume that having control over the negative side of the spring would be advantageous as well, right?
> 
> So for example, something like the MRP Ribbon combined with the Runt might make for a IRT-like air spring?


Runt will behave exactly like IRT. Three air Chambers, negative and main filled by one valve and auto regulate, and then additional valve on top for IRT/Runt. Ratios will be different but it's a flexible configuration regardless.

Great system.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Just to confirm, the RUNT will behave like IRT without the fork having it's own independently adjustable negative air chamber? 

So putting the Runt in something like an MRP Ribbon (or Mattoc or Mezzer) will be create redundant negative air chamber?


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

PHeller said:


> Just to confirm, the RUNT will behave like IRT without the fork having it's own independently adjustable negative air chamber?
> 
> So putting the Runt in something like an MRP Ribbon (or Mattoc or Mezzer) will be create redundant negative air chamber?


it has no effect on negative chamber. it provides two stages of positive spring similar to Manitou IRT.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

PHeller said:


> but the Runt only control the positive side of the air spring, so I assume that having control over the negative side of the spring would be advantageous as well, right?
> 
> So for example, something like the MRP Ribbon combined with the Runt might make for a IRT-like air spring?


what you are looking for is an adjustable negative chamber. Pressure and Volume. I don't know of any product that does that. All the ones you keep bringing up are on the positive side of the air spring.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm just not sure which is more important in creating that really plush first couple of MM of travel. Is that a product of a bushings, positive air chamber (or two stage positive chamber) or is it more on the negative side of the spring? 

From the reviews of the Runt, it sounds like negative spring is not as important as the two stage positive chamber.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Dougal said:


> So expect exactly the same performance, just more travel and stiffness from the Dorado.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BxcKG1siODQ/


More travel? 29 version only I guess?


----------



## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

FactoryMatt said:


> yes - https://diazsuspensiondesign.com/runt


USD$200 seems a bit rich and it's hardly a new "invention" as they claim, simply a copy of an IRT, with a bit more intricacy due to having to fill both chambers from the top.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Boom King said:


> USD$200 seems a bit rich and it's hardly a new "invention" as they claim, simply a copy of an IRT, with a bit more intricacy due to having to fill both chambers from the top.


I think this is still the best spring tuning option riders who like to jump ****. Since SD Components stopped making the Dynamic Volume Chamber this is the only option for non manitou forks.


----------



## shmity (Oct 6, 2015)

ghostbiker said:


> More travel? 29 version only I guess?


I think the distinction was between the Mezzer and the Dorado not between current and future Dorado updates.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> IChamber this is the only option for non manitou forks.


There is and has been for quite some time AWK system for less


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

ghostbiker said:


> There is and has been for quite some time AWK system for less


I forgot about the awk. Not sure if it's any cheaper once you convert euros to dollars, or how easy it is to order.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I’ve got a DSD runt sitting on my work bench going into my 170mm 36 grip2 tomorrow. Coming off an ACS coil and going back to air. Ill be racing on it this weekend on familiar terrain so I should get a feel for it. I’ll let you guys know if it’s worth $200.


----------



## shmity (Oct 6, 2015)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I forgot about the awk. Not sure if it's any cheaper once you convert euros to dollars, or how easy it is to order.


Theres a few euro stores selling them, price is about the same in USD once you convert, maybe cheaper if they remove VAT for you, but then theres shipping to consider. The AWK is probably the best of the lot design wise as they have considered different volumes for different travel ranges (ie theres a pike version for 120-140 and another for 140-160mm) so you get a more appropriate range of adjustment and you dont destroy the +/- chamber balance.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

The runt is travel specific as well


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I've contacted at least one of the Chickadeehill dealers and they wouldn't ship to the USA. If someone find one that does, let me know. I'd love to try the FOX 34 AWK.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

After spending the weekend riding a 36 with a runt I can say it's pretty impressive. The ACS coil (with the softer spring) had better small bump but it wasnt a huge difference. The runt outperformed it in all other aspects though. The runted air spring had the best midstroke support of any spring system Ive ridden (except for maybe the Ohlin with a similar system was on par but the small bump was less than stellar). With the ACS I felt I was in between springs. The green (recommended for my weight) was a little too soft and the black was way too hard. On the ACS I was running close to max high and low speed compression. I backed them out considerably with the runt. On the ACS I was running max ramp pressure and still bottoming pretty frequently in bike parks. With the Runt I finished a race weekend with about 20mm in unused travel. To me that's ideal as I like to keep a little in reserve. I will be tweaking pressure a little but I think Im pretty close to where I'll end up at 60psi in the main chamber and 125 in the runt. For reference I'm 190 RTR and was running about 80psi when I ran the stock evol. I'd have to say its worth the $200 if youre in the stock air spring. I'm thinking the Mezzer is going to be amazing. Looking forward to seeing some reviews on it.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dang that's quite a positive review. 

I'm going to track down a roundabout way of getting a AWK/RUNT for my Fox 34 while I patiently wait for the Mezzer reviews to come in.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jimarin said:


> After spending the weekend riding a 36 with a runt I can say it's pretty impressive. The ACS coil (with the softer spring) had better small bump but it wasnt a huge difference. The runt outperformed it in all other aspects though. The runted air spring had the best midstroke support of any spring system Ive ridden (except for maybe the Ohlin with a similar system was on par but the small bump was less than stellar). With the ACS I felt I was in between springs. The green (recommended for my weight) was a little too soft and the black was way too hard. On the ACS I was running close to max high and low speed compression. I backed them out considerably with the runt. On the ACS I was running max ramp pressure and still bottoming pretty frequently in bike parks. With the Runt I finished a race weekend with about 20mm in unused travel. To me that's ideal as I like to keep a little in reserve. I will be tweaking pressure a little but I think Im pretty close to where I'll end up at 60psi in the main chamber and 125 in the runt. For reference I'm 190 RTR and was running about 80psi when I ran the stock evol. I'd have to say its worth the $200 if youre in the stock air spring. I'm thinking the Mezzer is going to be amazing. Looking forward to seeing some reviews on it.


You really need to try a Mattoc with IRT.

Mezzer aren't far away if shipping dates are to be believed!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

imbecile said:


> View attachment 1249959
> 
> 
> Thank God the stupid thread-into-lowers shaft design of the Mattoc is gone! Fox style assembly with a nut is MUCH more user friendly and MUCH less prone to stripping the threads in the lowers or ovalizing the moronic 8mm hex on the air shaft! (Don't ask me how I know and why I've got RS product in the front now).
> Phew, now I have no reason to NOT go back to Manitou  Oh well, time to start saving some cash....


You are correct. The Mezzer has nuts on the shafts.

I'm wondering if with some creative drilling the same system could be applied to other manitou forks!


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Dougal said:


> You really need to try a Mattoc with IRT.
> 
> Mezzer aren't far away if shipping dates are to be believed!


I've heard nothing but good things about the mattoc. I'd be surprised if I'm not on a mezzer later in the season It has every feature I would want. I'm hoping this is the one I've been waiting for.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Anyone know if the mezzer's lowers nuts threads in clockwise or counterclockwise (like the mattoc)?


----------



## otsdr (Nov 15, 2009)

There is no reason why they would thread in counterclockwise. The Mattoc's shafts also have a normal-handed thread, so from their point of view they thread in clockwise as well. 
It's just a matter of perspective .


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

jimarin said:


> I've heard nothing but good things about the mattoc. I'd be surprised if I'm not on a mezzer later in the season It has every feature I would want. I'm hoping this is the one I've been waiting for.


You and me both brotha! I have been asking for a 29er long travel fork since they released the Mattoc (long travel being 150mm+).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> Anyone know if the mezzer's lowers nuts threads in clockwise or counterclockwise (like the mattoc)?


Standard threads. The normal shafts go in clockwise because you're threading them into the fork to remove them.

So nuts on them will be the standard lefty-loosey righty-tighty.


----------



## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Dougal said:


> You really need to try a Mattoc with IRT.


This man speaks the truth!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Any update on these forks being available?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

POAH said:


> Any update on these forks being available?


I don't know who is sucking up the majority of production. But I was able to secure only 3 forks.

Should have them next week.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I don't know who is sucking up the majority of production. But I was able to secure only 3 forks.
> 
> Should have them next week.


My understanding is that a lot of the first run was claimed by OEMs.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

bummer for the manitou fans, but important for Manitou for sure to push back into that mainstream OEM market. 

maybe the Lyrik recall helps things


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

FactoryMatt said:


> bummer for the manitou fans, but important for Manitou for sure to push back into that mainstream OEM market.
> 
> maybe the Lyrik recall helps things


There should still be aftermarket availability for those who want them. I wouldn't expect discounts though.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

QBP shows ETA of 7/1 but is still OOS 

looks like they only ordered one size of 29 and one of 275, and the 29 is 51 offset


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

FactoryMatt said:


> bummer for the manitou fans


Nah, it's good! I'd love to see lots of discussion about ownership/set up/tweaking this fork, and them running around in the wild for people to try.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> There should still be aftermarket availability for those who want them. I wouldn't expect discounts though.


That honestly is good for Manitou. Also noticed that Mcleod's are in short supply. Hopefully that is because they are selling lots of them.


----------



## d3ftone (Oct 20, 2015)

I believe the 51mm offset version is available directly on their website. The 4th of July code “FREEDOM” for 20% off should still be active for the rest of today.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

What size socket will be necessary to remove top caps of the Mezzer? 

Trying to decide between just getting the flat faced sockets I need for the forks I currently have, or getting a larger set that covers forks I might have in the future.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

d3ftone said:


> I believe the 51mm offset version is available directly on their website. The 4th of July code "FREEDOM" for 20% off should still be active for the rest of today.


Wow, that is a 29" 180mm Mezzer right now for $800. Pretty good deal.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

There is only one 29" model available - the 180mm 51mm offset. I'm sure the 44mm offset version sold out quick.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

And the code doesn't seem to work any longer. Waiting for the Mara myself anyways.


----------



## aaroncob (Apr 6, 2016)

https://www.mtb-mag.com/en/first-ride-manitou-mezzer/


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

aaroncob said:


> https://www.mtb-mag.com/en/first-ride-manitou-mezzer/


Overall looks good and clearly indicates that some of the best aspects of the Mattoc are still present in this fork.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

shame you can't bloody buy them yet


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Funny thing is I am starting to see the Lyrik market dive a bit. 2017+ are now in the $450ish price range for used which kinda sucks because I was hoping to sell my current Lyrik for more than half of what the Mezzer would cost.. 

Article definitely shines some positive light for the first impressions. Can't wait to see what the next review looks like after some time on it. Love the small, detailed guide that Manitou provides for setup.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

POAH said:


> shame you can't bloody buy them yet


Well, you can buy the 29" 180mm fork with 51 offset.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> Well, you can buy the 29" 180mm fork with 51 offset.


nothing in the UK. 170mm 37 offset 27.5 I'm after


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

POAH said:


> nothing in the UK. 170mm 37 offset 27.5 I'm after


Well, some of the 27.5 are finally available (180 mm, 44 offset) at least!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

eventually they will come I suppose. In no real rush.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

There are forks available now, but offset options are llimited. Next run is early August, so not that far away.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Changing travel on the mezzer works similar to the mattoc? I may have a 180 mezzer soon and will lower it to 170 mm.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> Changing travel on the mezzer works similar to the mattoc? I may have a 180 mezzer soon and will lower it to 170 mm.


Yes. Same air system, same spacers to reduce travel.

But I don't yet know what you get in the box.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Same air system, same spacers to reduce travel.
> 
> But I don't yet know what you get in the box.


I could try to use my mattoc spacers if they don't yet provide one.
I won't get an original package, just the fork and mud guard


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Mattoc spacer worked fine! I collected around 20 ml of oil from each leg, put in supergliss and now ready to go!
No more threaded lowers, but you need to keep the shafts in place to close the nuts.

Mattoc tool kit is everything you'll need.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Looks good.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

awesome, can't wait until they're out in the wild in a low offset sometime 2020 or 2021.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davideb87 said:


> Looks good.


Looks great! Let's get a ride report!


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

FactoryMatt said:


> awesome, can't wait until they're out in the wild in a low offset sometime 2020 or 2021.


I couln't care less about the offset joke. Imo just get the first you can find


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

davideb87 said:


>


Stonking rear shock.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Rick Draper said:


> Stonking rear shock.


Actually it was a pain in the a$$ to setup. They gave me the wrong coil (i needed a 425 lbs and they installed a 450) and had to change 2 times the shim stack (for free, they admitted the wrong tune as well).
Heavily damped, i mean very very harsh, very progressive and coupled with the warden progressive suspension i was using half travel. I took it to them 4-5 times, luckily i live 20 minutes away from the factory.
The problem is that the external regulations have a very narrow range, so the shim stack must ideal or it won't work well.

Now it's good.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

davideb87 said:


> Actually it was a pain in the a$$ to setup. They gave me the wrong coil (i needed a 425 lbs and they installed a 450) and had to change 2 times the shim stack (for free, they admitted the wrong tune as well).
> Heavily damped, i mean very very harsh, very progressive and coupled with the warden progressive suspension i was using half travel. I took it to them 4-5 times, luckily i live 20 minutes away from the factory.
> The problem is that the external regulations have a very narrow range, so the shim stack must ideal or it won't work well.
> 
> Now it's good.


I had to send my EXT back for a retune when I got it too. Shimmed super firm and the firmer of the 2 springs was way out of usable range. Their US distributor reshimmed it for me and it's been exceptional (except when the piston separated from the shaft on me). I got it for my slash but swapped it to my sb150 and it's been a great performer on both.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

davideb87 said:


> Actually it was a pain in the a$$ to setup. They gave me the wrong coil (i needed a 425 lbs and they installed a 450) and had to change 2 times the shim stack (for free, they admitted the wrong tune as well).
> Heavily damped, i mean very very harsh, very progressive and coupled with the warden progressive suspension i was using half travel. I took it to them 4-5 times, luckily i live 20 minutes away from the factory.
> The problem is that the external regulations have a very narrow range, so the shim stack must ideal or it won't work well.
> 
> Now it's good.


Review


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Clips are similar to the Mastodon. Did you need that weird cut out cassette tool and cut down socket to change the travel setting?



davideb87 said:


> Mattoc spacer worked fine! I collected around 20 ml of oil from each leg, put in supergliss and now ready to go!
> No more threaded lowers, but you need to keep the shafts in place to close the nuts.
> 
> Mattoc tool kit is everything you'll need.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> Looks good.


That's nice.

But have you ridden it in anger yet?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Clips are similar to the Mastodon. Did you need that weird cut out cassette tool and cut down socket to change the travel setting?


Mattoc tool kit works fine


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> That's nice.
> 
> But have you ridden it in anger yet?


Not really, i did some rocky descent but they were short. I find the mezzer to be amazing so far, even compared to my high flow piston mattoc.

I will take it to the bike park soon!


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Bikepark is the only real test


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nikon255 said:


> Bikepark is the only real test


If all you do is ride park.

Some of us ride trails, climb, and do all the other stuff.

What I'm looking for is the golden unicorn of myth and legend, farts fairy dust, ice cream rainbows from it's arse, good enough to smooth out the little hits, but still takes the big hits in stride, and of course keeps the wheel on the ground.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> That's nice.
> 
> But have you ridden it in anger yet?


Disappointed to see the air piston is only made from plastic instead of metal as the mastodons or Dorados air spring :-/


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Disappointed to see the air piston is only made from plastic instead of metal as the mastodons or Dorados air spring :-/


Plastic works very well for air pistons. It doesn't need additional glide rings to prevent wearing the stanchions. It's also lighter.

Every gram counts in this fork. They hit the 2kg mark while still being the stiffest.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I find it ironic that we want plastic bike frames but a plastic air piston is a no no!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Vespasianus said:


> I find it ironic that we want plastic bike frames but a plastic air piston is a no no!


or that most of the products we use are made from "plastic".

Of course there's a lot of different plastics, not just the type used to make tupperware ...

I suspect they know what they are doing as that's what they do.

Maybe Dougal can answer this question: How much of what we ride on an MTB is derived from moto and auto applications? I assume it's trickle down since our products are the least widespread and the least profitable compared to those other markets.

And still no user review, WTF?!


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

auto suspension is ridiculously expensive. Penske, JRZ, Ohlins, AST, Moton, etc. that stuff is crazy at the high end.

moto isn't bad. bike stuff, its really good for what it costs.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

auto suspension is ridiculously expensive. Penske, JRZ, Ohlins, AST, Moton, etc. that stuff is crazy at the high end.

moto isn't bad. bike stuff, its really good for what it costs.



Nurse Ben said:


> And still no user review, WTF?!


Manitou probably doesn't want to pay Pinkbike et al to post a 'review' like everybody else does lol


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

FactoryMatt said:


> Manitou probably doesn't want to pay Pinkbike et al to post a 'review' like everybody else does lol


Why? I'm pretty sure there's no better ROI than a good Pinkbike review.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

FactoryMatt said:


> auto suspension is ridiculously expensive. Penske, JRZ, Ohlins, AST, Moton, etc. that stuff is crazy at the high end.
> 
> moto isn't bad. bike stuff, its really good for what it costs.
> 
> Manitou probably doesn't want to pay Pinkbike et al to post a 'review' like everybody else does lol


Pretty sure there will be a PB review shortly.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Every gram counts in this fork.


Such a bummer.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

So far so good, this fork is awesome. I can compare it to a good number of competitors, it's the best fork i have used on a mtb. I discarded rockshox, fox36 fit4, i own a mattoc and a dvo diamond (i have 2 bikes).
So smooth, low speed sensitivity is a lot better than the mattoc, for big hits it has a similar feeling to the mattoc, family feeling is a good word to describe it.
To me it seems that it has a slighty lighter shim stack tune on compression, i'm using a lot of LSC at the moment and still it isn't harsh.
HSC is set 1 from open.

With both LSC and HSC full closed the fork still moves relatively free, the mattoc was very slow in that condition. This sort of confirm that it has a lighter shim stack.

I'm using identical pressure to the mattoc, 60 psi main and 90 irt for my 80 kg. I actually found the Manitou suggested pressure to be too soft, they suggested 52/75 psi for 82 kg.

Saturday i will do 6000+ metres of descents in the rough, i did the same park with the mattoc 2 weeks ago, can't wait.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> auto suspension is ridiculously expensive. Penske, JRZ, Ohlins, AST, Moton, etc. that stuff is crazy at the high end.
> 
> moto isn't bad. bike stuff, its really good for what it costs.


You have it backwards, it's not the cost, it's what a certain user group generates in profits that drive technology, hence my thought that big dollar industries like moto and auto are probably trickle down to us pleebs on mountain bikes.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe Dougal can answer this question: How much of what we ride on an MTB is derived from moto and auto applications? I assume it's trickle down since our products are the least widespread and the least profitable compared to those other markets.
> 
> And still no user review, WTF?!


Manitou's head Engineer (Ed) is ex Showa moto: Twenty Nine Inches Interview With Manitou's Tech Expert Ed Kwaterski

The physics is all the same, but the results are all different. We have massively different live/dead weight and also big differences in body position and weight transfer.

Low/mid range auto uses emulsion shocks, our rear shocks are closer in design and construction to race level automotive shocks.
Upper end mass-market auto (like Koni and Bilstein) are still using dampers that are very simple in construction and don't have the manufacturing cost of the intricate MTB dampers.

Moto is something I don't keep up with much. But I don't think they're ahead of us. They share the same issues with manufacturers pushing air to keep weight down and some customers wanting coil. Their rear shocks are pretty similar to a piggy back MTB shock.

There is a huge difference in moto between road racing and offroad with regard to suspension requirements (body control vs bump control) due to the suspension speeds. There is some contention about companies bringing damper designs from tarmac racing to MTB and how suitable they are.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

anybody knows a2c of mezzer 27,5 and mattoc 2 27,5?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> You have it backwards, it's not the cost, it's what a certain user group generates in profits that drive technology, hence my thought that big dollar industries like moto and auto are probably trickle down to us pleebs on mountain bikes.


According to Wikipedia who is never wrong btw  reports that in 2016 Fox's mountain bike equipment sales accounted for 56% of the company's total revenue.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> anybody knows a2c of mezzer 27,5 and mattoc 2 27,5?


https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-mezzer.html
Mezzer 27"
140-180 mm travel
110 x 15 mm boost axle
Tapered steerer tube
Bolt on mudguard fender
Fits 2.8" tyre without fender, 2.6" with.
Disc brake only (180+ mm post mount)
44 mm Offset (37mm version coming)
*574mm Axle-Crown measurement (180mm)*
2000 g (4.4 lb)

I've got Mattoc 2 here to measure. But I cannot find a tape-measure!


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

nikon255 said:


> anybody knows a2c of mezzer 27,5 and mattoc 2 27,5?


a2c on my Mattoc 2 Pro 27.5 is 555mm when set at 160mm travel.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

davideb87 said:


> So far so good, this fork is awesome. I can compare it to a good number of competitors, it's the best fork i have used on a mtb. I discarded rockshox, fox36 fit4, i own a mattoc and a dvo diamond (i have 2 bikes).
> So smooth, low speed sensitivity is a lot better than the mattoc, for big hits it has a similar feeling to the mattoc, family feeling is a good word to describe it.
> To me it seems that it has a slighty lighter shim stack tune on compression, i'm using a lot of LSC at the moment and still it isn't harsh.
> HSC is set 1 from open.
> ...


Please report back on strengths and weaknesses after today. Perhaps some track photographs, too  if there is some gnarly stuff


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I was hoping mezzer will be lower, but its a2c is same as mattoc which looks like 180mm travel fork


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

If the Mezzer is lighter, stiffer and the same price as the Mattoc, I don't understand why Manitou still has the Mattoc in the lineup.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> If the Mezzer is lighter, stiffer and the same price as the Mattoc, I don't understand why Manitou still has the Mattoc in the lineup.


A Mattoc boost 27.5 is 200g lighter at 1809g and is a fox 34 competitor. The Mezzer is 2000g in that form is a 36/ lyrik competitor.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

davideb87 said:


> So far so good, this fork is awesome. I can compare it to a good number of competitors, it's the best fork i have used on a mtb. I discarded rockshox, fox36 fit4, i own a mattoc and a dvo diamond (i have 2 bikes).
> So smooth, low speed sensitivity is a lot better than the mattoc, for big hits it has a similar feeling to the mattoc, family feeling is a good word to describe it.
> To me it seems that it has a slighty lighter shim stack tune on compression, i'm using a lot of LSC at the moment and still it isn't harsh.
> HSC is set 1 from open.
> ...


And what does your 6000+ metres descent review bring to the table? Detailed reports please


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

he didnt survive


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> And what does your 6000+ metres descent review bring to the table? Detailed reports please


5400 metres actually, rain stopped me 
I did a mix of flow with jumps and long, rocky descents at high speed, lots of square edge hits.

I can pretty much confirm my first impressions:
- i find the pressure table not ideal, suggested pressures are way too low for me, i have found my ideal pressures 10psi higher for both main and IRT, 60/90 psi for my 80 kg.
- the fork is extremely comfortable on square edge hits, it filters out a lot but you can still feel what is happening under the wheel (5 lsc and 1 hsc from open), it's significantly better than the very good mattoc with high flow piston.
- large hits are managed very well, it seems more progressive than the mattoc, on the mattoc i had to run IRT 2x (or more) the main pressure if had to do jumps/drops, on the mezzer 1.5 is perfect.
- it doesn't flex at all, i tried a pike back to back on the same descent and the difference is huge, i recall the pike is similar to the mattoc.
- it rides higher than the mattoc, not as high as my DVO diamond on berms and braking but close. I didn't play much with compression knobs, i probably could make it even better with more compression.

I didn't try the fork with the original oil, i put supergliss 100k after the travel change.

I made this short, horrible video. Had a lot of vibration because of a shitty camera mount, hope you can see something useful


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Darn, that sounds very good. I have a yari 29 with awk and novyparts compression unit and a 650b metric with custom made Airspring and reworked hlr cartridge .... Really would like to compare those. I fear, one of them would have to go :-D


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

I think the HBO is fixed on the Mezzer so that might impact the progressive feeling.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

There is a fixed HBO circuit in the Mezzer, but the IRT chamber volume is reduced compared to the Mattoc. That is the main cause of the added progression when comparing the two.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mullen119 said:


> There is a fixed HBO circuit in the Mezzer, but the IRT chamber volume is reduced compared to the Mattoc. That is the main cause of the added progression when comparing the two.


That is interesting. Does this mean you can use less pressure in the new IRT?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> That is interesting. Does this mean you can use less pressure in the new IRT?


Since the IRT's spring rate ramps up faster, pressures tend to be a little lower (smaller pressure gap between the two)


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Are Some other Mezzer rocking the trails here? How are your experiences and recommendations?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A-C is fairly standardized, tires and wheels being the same across all forks, so 555mm for a 160mm travel 27.5, add 10mm to the A-C for a 29" fork.

There's s few odd forks out there...



nikon255 said:


> I was hoping mezzer will be lower, but its a2c is same as mattoc which looks like 180mm travel fork


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> A-C is fairly standardized, tires and wheels being the same across all forks, so 555mm for a 160mm travel 27.5, add 10mm to the A-C for a 29" fork.
> 
> There's s few odd forks out there...


Should be 20mm longer for the 29" version. 27 has a 23" rim, 29 has a 24.5" rim. 1.5" diameter, 3/4" radius difference.

The days have passed when some companies made ridiculously long forks for no good reason.
Now all forks to fit 29x2.6" etc will be within a few mm of each other for the same travel. It gets a bit murky with plus sized and fat forks still.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Just received my 44 mm offset 29 Mezzer and need to change the Travel. Anyone know if the process is similar to the Mattoc? I can find any tech docs for the travel change procedure. 
Thanks


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

elsinore said:


> Just received my 44 mm offset 29 Mezzer and need to change the Travel. Anyone know if the process is similar to the Mattoc? I can find any tech docs for the travel change procedure.
> Thanks


Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

davideb87 said:


> Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.


Perfect, thank you!


----------



## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

bwana said:


> How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike


if you weight 150lb 40lb bike doesn´t really matter. There are e-bike specific 36 forks too which have thicker stanchions. But it´s not only about stiffness, I believe manitou airspring and damper are both better than fox.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

bwana said:


> How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike


Which fox36? Fit4 is garbage compared to the mezzer (and to the mattoc pro as well), can't compare the grip2 because i haven't tried it yet.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

ghostbiker said:


> if you weight 150lb 40lb bike doesn´t really matter. There are e-bike specific 36 forks too which have thicker stanchions. But it´s not only about stiffness, I believe manitou airspring and damper are both better than fox.


The Mezzer also e-bke certified.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> The Mezzer also e-bke certified.


Even the 30mm Manitou Markhor is 150kg E-bike and Cargo Bike certified.

It's weird that some brands have to beef up their normal offerings!


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Even the 30mm Manitou Markhor is 150kg E-bike and Cargo Bike certified.
> 
> It's weird that some brands have to beef up their normal offerings!


Especially when it´s supposedly enduro fork... Oh well.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

On a side note; no thread on the Mara?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance. 

I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:

1. Recommended: 73 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~25% sag)
2. Adjustment A: 78 main, 115 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~20% sag)
3. Adjustment B: 78 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (Didn't check sag)

The recommended setting tracked well and was supple, but it tended to dive a little bit in corners and got a little squirrely at speed. I'm coming directly from my Helm, which is a super supportive fork, so part of that is probably just riding something less damped and getting used to it, but I think it was still too soft for my weight or the way I ride. I generally run it a bit on the firmer side, anyway.

I increased the main and IRT pressures and it felt good, but it felt like it was spiking a bit, which I attributed to the transition between the main compressing and the IRT starting to compress. I dropped 10psi out of the IRT and it seemed to smooth out a fair bit, although I think I'll add some LSC to help in corners and with braking, but that felt pretty close for now. I may also drop a few psi out of my main, maybe take it to 75 and closer to 22% sag.

Riding the recommended settings, I hit the HBO a bit and it is a very interesting feeling. I like it a lot, but it's kindof disorienting when you are used to your fork yanking you forward when it hits that end ramp up point. I think I hit it a few times on my first ride using the recommended settings and it was super nice.

Overall, the fork feels great. It tracks better than my Helm did, even when it was spiking a bit. It feels really smooth, the adjustments seem to have a pretty noticeable impact. The only thing I wish was different was the LSR adjuster, I'd prefer more granular adjustments, but that is kindof a nitpick and it feels really good for now. My rides have mostly been on the shorter side, too, so hopefully I'll get some others on bigger terrain. I may back it off slightly, because it does feel a bit on the firm side, but just barely. I may also try the recommended settings, but add 4-5 clicks of LSC.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Adodero said:


> So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance.
> 
> I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:
> 
> ...


One thing to remember with any recommended air pressures is that a shock pumps accuracy varies greatly. I have 3 analog and 2 digital pumps and between them, there is about a 15psi range in readings.the digital pumps are pretty similar with roughly a 3psi difference between them. The analog pumps are the ones that differ significantly.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Adodero said:


> So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance.
> 
> I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review.

If you are say this fork is feeling soft and "less damped", but you've got the LSC and HSC fully open... am I missing something?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

CS645 said:


> On a side note; no thread on the Mara?


There is one somewhere but last I heard they are still a month or two out with no solid ETA.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bdundee said:


> There is one somewhere but last I heard they are still a month or two out with no solid ETA.


The first (albeit very small) production batch just arrived a few days ago. Mostly for OEM I believe, but you might see them pop up for sale shortly. Not to far out even if these don't see aftermarket sales

There is a thread for it around here somewhere. Its an amazing shock


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> One thing to remember with any recommended air pressures is that a shock pumps accuracy varies greatly. I have 3 analog and 2 digital pumps and between them, there is about a 15psi range in readings.the digital pumps are pretty similar with roughly a 3psi difference between them. The analog pumps are the ones that differ significantly.


For sure. I've been using a digital, but it appears with this fork even 3-5psi makes a difference, so a bit of variance on their end, a bit on mine, and it could have it settled in the travel more than it should be. They do recommend 20-25% on the tuning guide, the figure on the guide sat me right around 25%, as much as I can measure accurately and consistently, anyway.



Miker J said:


> Thanks for the review.
> 
> If you are say this fork is feeling soft and "less damped", but you've got the LSC and HSC fully open... am I missing something?


I meant in comparison to the Helm, which is fairly firm even with all of the adjusters opened up. I haven't really played with the adjusters that much, I've made some 2-3 click changes in the LSC adjuster, but I've been experimenting more with the IRT and main pressures for the time being, since that system is somewhat new to me and I want to keep the other variables the same. The adjusters seem to have good range and make fairly broad adjustments, from my brief push test.

I also wasn't saying it was 'too soft', rather that it can be set up more compliant than some of the forks I've been on lately (mainly Helm and Ribbon), which are more firmly damped even wide open.

You can make the fork fairly firm, if you want. I added a bit of compression and ran the IRT/main around 115psi(IRT)/78psi(main) and it felt very firm, similar to the Helm, where the fork wants to push into you a bit more and provide support. I'm running it a bit more compliant to ease pressure off my hands and help the bike track a little better, though, which was part of the reason for moving away from the Helm (which I liked a fair bit). I ran the Mezzer earlier today at 75psi/105psi with 2 clicks in the LSC adjuster and it felt really good, closer to where I'd want it anyway.

I've been doing all of my "testing"/tuning on the same trail, which consists of some faster rooty sections, a few fast corners, wall rides, slow drops, and a narrow bit with some awkward lines, one in particular always seems to induce dive in incorrectly setup forks. The first run down, with the recommended settings, I was pretty regularly hitting that last 30-40mm of travel. It wasn't abrupt, it felt alright, but there were a few instances where it came out from under me, I think it also had to do with the bike geo being a bit more forward than I'm used to. I think if I had run my shock a bit lower, it probably would have balanced out fine. The second time around, I ran the highest setting I've tried (78/115) and it felt alright, but it was spiking a bit more than I'd like and felt closer to the Helm, so very supportive and responsive, but a bit more firm than I'd like. I backed off the IRT 10psi and it felt more compliant, but still a bit harsh, so I went down a few psi in the main and it felt like a really good balance. I tested all of those with the adjusters open and rebound at a set 3 clicks from closed.

I think I have a good idea of the bounds on the spring now, so the next thing I'll work with is the damper settings. I'll probably do that some later this week, going back to the base recommended setting I was at and adding 5-6 clicks of LSC and 1-2 of HSC to see how it feels. I think some of that dive feel with it at 25% would have been mitigated by proper damper adjustments, but we'll see.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Adodero said:


> For sure. I've been using a digital, but it appears with this fork even 3-5psi makes a difference, so a bit of variance on their end, a bit on mine, and it could have it settled in the travel more than it should be. They do recommend 20-25% on the tuning guide, the figure on the guide sat me right around 25%, as much as I can measure accurately and consistently, anyway.
> 
> I meant in comparison to the Helm, which is fairly firm even with all of the adjusters opened up. I haven't really played with the adjusters that much, I've made some 2-3 click changes in the LSC adjuster, but I've been experimenting more with the IRT and main pressures for the time being, since that system is somewhat new to me and I want to keep the other variables the same. The adjusters seem to have good range and make fairly broad adjustments, from my brief push test.
> 
> ...


I find it works very well 5-7 psi more than recommended and using lsc doesn't make it uncomfortable. At the moment i am using 6 clicks from open without issues, 1 click hsc.


----------



## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

@adodero
Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. That’s why I’m thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also I’m mostly doing trails so I’d prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

bwana said:


> @adodero
> Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. That's why I'm thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also I'm mostly doing trails so I'd prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?


You can lower the mezzer travel to 140 mm...10mm increments, using the provided spacers.

Offset has nothing to do with doing dh or not, you choose offset for bike handling characteristics. Although my experience as an amateur proves it's not that important, didn't feel big difference between 51mm and 46mm.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

bwana said:


> @adodero
> Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. That's why I'm thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also I'm mostly doing trails so I'd prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?


The Mezzer can fairly easily be adjusted down to 150 or 160 (range is 140-180), so you should be able to make it fit your Levo pretty easily. FWIW most forks can be travel adjusted, the mechanism just differs.

As for geometry, it's a fairly standard axle to crown, so I wouldn't say it requires any specific geometry. If it's the feel you want, which it sounds like it is (e.g. comparing to the 36), then it should replace any current similar fork on the market just fine.



davideb87 said:


> I find it works very well 5-7 psi more than recommended and using lsc doesn't make it uncomfortable. At the moment i am using 6 clicks from open without issues, 1 click hsc.


Thanks for the info, good to know I'm not the only one bumping it up a bit.


----------



## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and don’t build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. I’m sure I’ll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forks’ adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?

Although I enjoy the Levo I’m sure you young folks see it as an ‘adaptive’ bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.

I am 210 lbs in full gear and don’t do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it ‘stiffer’ than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

bwana said:


> Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and don't build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. I'm sure I'll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forks' adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?
> 
> Although I enjoy the Levo I'm sure you young folks see it as an 'adaptive' bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.
> 
> I am 210 lbs in full gear and don't do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it 'stiffer' than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?


The travel change process could likely be done by your shop or you could probably call Hayes and ask them to do it for you, if you bought it from them. It's not a difficult procedure, but it does require a few tools you may not have if you don't do your own bike work. Any competent shop should be able to take care of it, though.

The IRT and mains are filled through different valves. You have one at the bottom of the fork leg (main) and one at the top (IRT). Fill the IRT first, then the main. They have a chart on their site for recommended starting pressures, you are pretty close to me in weight, but you might also need to consider the weight of the bike itself. Your shop should be able to help you get sag set up, I'd look for 22% or so.

It sounds like a complicated system, but it isn't that difficult to use and you dont' have to fiddle with it as much as I do on different rides. It'll probably feel better than your Revelation even if the setup isn't ideal, I'm a bit more peculiar in getting stuff set up because I'm heavier (220), I have nerve damage in my hands, and I ride a lot of steep, technical terrain, so it's a real careful balance of providing support while keeping the fork smooth to relieve pressure on my hand. If you aren't that peculiar, then you don't need to tweak it as much as I have been.

I don't think it's overkill, the chassis is supposedly stiffer (feels stiff to me, I don't get the flex I do from other forks), and it'll definitely feel better than your Revelation. I haven't run a GRIP or GRIP2 36 yet, but I will add that the adjustments on the GRIP2 36 will be a bit more overwhelming if you don't like to tinker with suspension.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

Got my 180mm 27.5 37mm offset mezzer in a few days ago and had a good thrash on it in the bike park a couple days ago, in short, its pretty darn good.

I did pull it apart on arrival to check that grease/oil was where it needed to be and to check that everything was tight, did find a few things:

-foot nuts were finger tight... good thing i took it apart to look at it first!
-airspring seal head was also finger tight
-There was a sufficient amount of grease on the main air spring piston, but it was only on the top and bottom of the piston, and not the quad ring itself
-the irt piston had no grease on the shaft but did have sufficient grease on the outer seal
-clean, lots of bath oil, and the foam rings were nicely soaked


Assembled again after applying some grease to seals as necessary and snugged up air spring seal head and footnuts. Set pressure to about 50 psi main, and around 80 psi irt at 145lbs rider weight. Ended up with the rebound on the slower side at 2 clicks from closed, mainly because the jade on the back of the bike has much to slow rebound, even with the clicker full open, and there was a very large imbalance between the front and back of the bike. Compression ended up at 6 clicks from closed of LSC and 3 clicks from closed of HSC

I took it to SilverStar bike park, and proceded to do some trail raging to test. I have been riding my dh bike all year so hopping on the enduro bike always feels like its under gunned as I tend to ride it like my dh bike. So it gave me a good baseline for comparison for how the fork will perform for some good thrashing relative to the dh bike. (for reference sake the fork on the dh bike is a DVO emerald chassis which I converted to coil and have inserted the damper from a Bos idylle FCV with the FCV valve "deleted" and manitou evil genius 2 seals from a dorado, its basically a magic eraser)

The fork was really good, even better than I was expecting. The shim stacks for compression and especially rebound appear to be quite light, but certainly quite well suited for my weight, especiallly compared to stock tunes on many of the other products out there. Brake bumps were mostly erased, there was some vibration to the hands, but much less so than the mattoc pro boost that was on the enduro bike before but more vibration than the dh bike which produces almost no vibration on any kind of bumps. Could have done to run the rebound clicker a few clicks more open here but the bike felt too imbalanced with the jade on the back to do so. Big hits and jumps were dealt with very nicely with no drama, very little harshness, no feeling of bottom out, even though full travel was used many times. Large holes and big roots were also smoothed very nicely with minimal harshness (still need to open that rebound clicker a few more clicks for no harshness but the bike felt way to imbalanced with the slow jade on the back to do that), the fork simply just "gets out of the way" while riding through chunky terrain. Certainly no problem riding bike park for a full day with this fork and the hands still felt great at the end of the day. The fork was very quiet, it just kind of dissappeared and did its thing without any fuss. As whole, the fork is very impressive, certainly the best single crown fork I've ever ridden.

I have a different rear shock for the enduro bike on the way (the jade donsn't have a very tunable rebound setup without machining some new parts) the mezzer made the back feel so bad in comparison to the front, I think manitou pretty much nailed it with this fork. I will likely take the bike to the bike park again with the new shock and open up the rebound some more on the mezzer which should eliminate the smidge of harshness and vibration.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Anything special needed to change travel on this fork? I'm thinking about going 150mm on a 275 Mezzer.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

Same procedure as Mattoc, spacers on air shaft below the piston, the mezzer comes with a bag with a lot of spacers


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

naturaltalent said:


> mainly because the jade on the back of the bike has much to slow rebound, even with the clicker full open


I'm not sure what the deal is with the DVO shocks and their rebound damping, I'm considerably heavier than you (215-220) and I still found it too slow on the three shocks I've had of theirs. It made me feel like I was getting pulled off the back of the bike on some sections of trail and push/unweights felt really dead.

A few of the other forks I've owned fell into the same category, though, where high speed rebounds were really dead feeling or too slow returning. The Topaz matched up well for them. I don't really get that sensation with the Mezzer, though, which is nice, it feels a lot more responsive, which is closer to the SR Suntour forks I've had and oddly enough, one DVO.

I guess it's 'safer' to have it return slow than buck riders, but it makes the bike feel really poorly on natural terrain.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

naturaltalent said:


> Got my 180mm 27.5 37mm offset mezzer in a few days ago and had a good thrash on it in the bike park a couple days ago, in short, its pretty darn good.


nice review. manitou marketing should send you a Mara shock to go with it!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

My first batch of Mezzer just arrived. Test riding tomorrow.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Fork is on and bolted up. 27" 180mm, 37mm offset (44mm is the other option).

Took it apart to remove the travel spacer (was set to 170mm), these are very easy to work on, the lower leg nuts are much quicker and easier to line-up than the old threaded shafts.
The damper cartridge is bristling with bleed ports.
I got the feeling that a lot of features on this fork were dreamt up back in the early Mattoc days and it was only now they had the opportunity to fully implement them.

Bounce tests give me:
45psi main air spring, 80psi IRT.
Rebound 6 from closed.
LSC closed.
HSC open.

Feels just like an overgrown Mattoc so far. Is extremely smooth and free sliding out the box. We'll see how the riding goes. Damping feels very lively but the range I need is there right in the middle. HSC is a lot more subtle than Mattoc or Dorado as the preload spring is a lot softer.

Just awaiting player #2 so we can bolt up a 29" Mezzer and go shuttling!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Revelation is an old XC fork, 32mm stanchions, at 210# it is not enough fork, so pretty much anything will be better. Pike, Lyric, 36. Get something used and save some money.

So you got the base model Levo? I'm surprised Specialized used a lighter weight fork than a Pike, that's a heavy bike and most ebike riders tend to be on the bigger side.



bwana said:


> Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and don't build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. I'm sure I'll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forks' adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?
> 
> Although I enjoy the Levo I'm sure you young folks see it as an 'adaptive' bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.
> 
> I am 210 lbs in full gear and don't do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it 'stiffer' than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Revelation is an old XC fork, 32mm stanchions, at 210# it is not enough fork, so pretty much anything will be better. Pike, Lyric, 36. Get something used and save some money.
> 
> So you got the base model Levo? I'm surprised Specialized used a lighter weight fork than a Pike, that's a heavy bike and most ebike riders tend to be on the bigger side.


The revelation is 35mm now, and uses the Pike chassis. I've worked on a few of them fitted to Levo's and they can be either Moco or the new Charger RC damper


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

The Revelation Charger RC is like a GRIP damper Fox 34 but with a better chassis. Good fork for the money. May actually be lighter than the Charger 2.1 equipped Ultimate. 

Speaking of lightness and short travel - how much weight does having all the travel reducers in the Mezzer add? As I understand it, they add a few grams each. For 140mm travel, you'd need...4? 

Would it be possible to cut down the air shaft in the Mezzer as well?


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

PHeller said:


> As I understand it, they add a few grams each. For 140mm travel, you'd need...4?
> 
> Would it be possible to cut down the air shaft in the Mezzer as well?


Are you serious???


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Every. Gram. Counts.

Nah, Im not too serious, but just interested in the how the internals of these forks work compared to Fox and RS products. Part of the reason fox ditched the adjustable air springs was cutting weight and adding simplicity. Its impressive that Manitou had made a fork just as light while still retaining the ease of spacer reduced travel.

EDIT: Base weight per this Bike Rumor article says 2032g at 180mm, and 2070g at 140mm, each travel reducer adding about 10g. Odd enough, the Lyrik and 36 both gain weight as they go up in travel, so a Lyrik at 140mm is a hair under 2000g due to less material in the air spring shaft, but by the time they are all at 170mm the Mezzer is lighter.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Dougal said:


> HSC is a lot more subtle than Mattoc or Dorado as the preload spring is a lot softer.
> 
> Just awaiting player #2 so we can bolt up a 29" Mezzer and go shuttling!


The HSC felt really good for me closed off. I usually expect forks with the HSC adjuster closed off to spike badly or feel really uncomfortable, but it wasn't the case at all. It was a noticeable difference and it kept the fork a bit higher, but it wasn't that harsh. It felt kindof like my Helm when the Helm was open entirely, possibly a little more compliant. Honestly, I prefer the way the fork feels with it on the firmer side, but it wrecks my hand.

What's your take on the LSC adjustments? They seemed fairly subtle, as well, but I don't think I closed it off entirely to compare. I did some bracketing on the same trail segment and think I varied it between 3 (from closed) to 9.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Every. Gram. Counts.
> 
> Nah, Im not too serious, but just interested in the how the internals of these forks work compared to Fox and RS products. Part of the reason fox ditched the adjustable air springs was cutting weight and adding simplicity. Its impressive that Manitou had made a fork just as light while still retaining the ease of spacer reduced travel.
> 
> EDIT: Base weight per this Bike Rumor article says 2032g at 180mm, and 2070g at 140mm, each travel reducer adding about 10g. Odd enough, the Lyrik and 36 both gain weight as they go up in travel, so a Lyrik at 140mm is a hair under 2000g due to less material in the air spring shaft, but by the time they are all at 170mm the Mezzer is lighter.


2030g for the 29". 27" is supposed to be 2kg even. Mine was 2085g with mudguard and hose-clamp bolted on.

Shortening the air-shaft will require additional spacers to put the air volumes back where you want them. So it's a lot of work to save a few grams.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Test ride done and dusted:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B1LdTyRHGRf/
Quick notes:

It's the smoothest new fork I've ever felt. No hint of stiction or binding.
Air spring is more supple off the top than the Mattoc, due to the bigger air chamber. Terrain response is continuous. It's just always following the ground.
Mid stroke is long and supportive.
Not sure if I hit full travel, the travel check o-ring has been thrown up against the crown rather than just pushed by the wiper. So I hit something pretty hard. Will install a tighter one next time.
Adjuster range is dead on. You can dial in from not enough to too much compression and rebound.

Best stock fork I've ever ridden. Possibly only edged out by a tuned Dorado.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adodero said:


> The HSC felt really good for me closed off. I usually expect forks with the HSC adjuster closed off to spike badly or feel really uncomfortable, but it wasn't the case at all. It was a noticeable difference and it kept the fork a bit higher, but it wasn't that harsh. It felt kindof like my Helm when the Helm was open entirely, possibly a little more compliant. Honestly, I prefer the way the fork feels with it on the firmer side, but it wrecks my hand.
> 
> What's your take on the LSC adjustments? They seemed fairly subtle, as well, but I don't think I closed it off entirely to compare. I did some bracketing on the same trail segment and think I varied it between 3 (from closed) to 9.


I always close LSC before adding HSC. My test runs yesterday I started with LSC closed and HSC open, tried HSC right up to full, it's not harsh but it's more damping than I needed or wanted for that trail. I went down to 2 clicks from closed on LSC.

Overall just extremely happy with it. I've never before found a stock fork that could eat bumps like this or stay composed. Let alone both. It normally takes a custom tune to achieve.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dougal, you're not afraid of coils - is the new IRT getting closer to coil performance?


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

ghostbiker said:


> Are you serious???




Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

how to bleed mezzer damper? Any service manual yet?


----------



## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

davideb87 said:


> Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.


Since I have never taken a fork apart, what tools do I need so I don't destroy mine. From what I've read online there are specific tools needed? Non chamfered sockets? Etc


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

bwana said:


> Since I have never taken a fork apart, what tools do I need so I don't destroy mine. From what I've read online there are specific tools needed? Non chamfered sockets? Etc


Mattoc tool kit and standard hex key


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I always close LSC before adding HSC. My test runs yesterday I started with LSC closed and HSC open, tried HSC right up to full, it's not harsh but it's more damping than I needed or wanted for that trail. I went down to 2 clicks from closed on LSC.
> 
> Overall just extremely happy with it. I've never before found a stock fork that could eat bumps like this or stay composed. Let alone both. It normally takes a custom tune to achieve.


Further feedback on the mezzer, now?

And how does the Mara compare to the mcleod or some fox or rs shox? 
Sensitive, smoothness through the travel, supportive, repetitive hits, big hits, bottom out?


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Sourced a 160mm fork, 29er. Converted it to 180mm. Process is relatively easy.

*lower air shaft/damper are threaded on w/ a 12mm nut...thin wall 8mm not needed.
*had to sacrifice/modify a chainring tool fit over air shaft to unthread it from CSU
*can be done w/o losing any bath oil.
*removed 2 x 2 piece spacers (20mm total).
*took about 20 minutes (not including modifying tool)
*i have had several RS/Fox forks disassembled. the seals and dust wipers on the Mezzer seem to be considerably "looser." they easily popped over the stanchions. not sure this a useable data point, but it was an observation, at a minimum.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

All I can find for sale are 180mm Mezzers. That's the way it works for me.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ohhh, that makes sense, so it's to the Pike what the Yari is to the Lyric.

Hmmm, then I tell the Kevi guy to keep the fork and get it tuned/upgraded.



JohnnyC7 said:


> The revelation is 35mm now, and uses the Pike chassis. I've worked on a few of them fitted to Levo's and they can be either Moco or the new Charger RC damper


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

I am looking for a 29” 140mm travel fork for a “lite-ish” upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?

I was initially looking at the Pike Ultimate but I am getting the sense that as usual with RS and Fox that you need to spend $200+ to fix before you even ride it. This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS. 

I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

bigdrunk said:


> I am looking for a 29" 140mm travel fork for a "lite-ish" upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?
> 
> I was initially looking at the Pike Ultimate but I am getting the sense that as usual with RS and Fox that you need to spend $200+ to fix before you even ride it. This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS.
> 
> I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.


On paper, the Mattoc is lighter and maybe cheaper. But if you look at some of the published weights, the Mattoc in 29" form is close to 2012 grams. The Mezzer looks to be 2030, which to me is negligible and worth the extra stiffness and flexibility.

The Mattoc is cheaper. The Mezzer is new and in demand so the prices are high. The Mattoc is hard to find but I think will still be cheaper.


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Some of the German shops have great prices on Mattoc Pros. Weight is a wash. Price aside, the Mezzer seems like the way to go.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

What bath oil weight do I need to use? Are there any specific brands to use or avoid?



bigdrunk said:


> This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS.
> 
> I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.


SRAM has been like that for a while since they instituted MAP, I think Fox is going the same direction. I've seen more SRAM forks discounted than components, but even then, the discounts are kindof meh.

The Sapphire 34 is a great fork, I really liked mine, but I'd take the Mezzer for the wider travel range. I also find the Mezzer more supportive without running a lot of air in the airspring, the Sapphire was a bit underdamped.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Dougal, you're not afraid of coils - is the new IRT getting closer to coil performance?


Yes. Three air chambers of the correct size can do the job of a coil spring. There is still a strong preference and market for coil springs, but the performance gains are not what they used to be.

That said. Plenty of room inside for a Smashpot coil spring, but no need for the aftermarket HBO.



nikon255 said:


> how to bleed mezzer damper? Any service manual yet?


Bleeding is super easy. The same M5 syringe fittings as a Hayes Radar, RS Reverb, X-lock remote etc. Hook it on with bleed port up, stroke it to suck the oil out the syringe and air bubbles back into the syringe.
Remove the syringe, cap the port and see if you're happy with the bladder expansion/contraction.

No service manual yet that I know of. But aside from knowing bath oil volume and oil type it's almost not needed.



bansaiman said:


> Further feedback on the mezzer, now?
> 
> And how does the Mara compare to the mcleod or some fox or rs shox?
> Sensitive, smoothness through the travel, supportive, repetitive hits, big hits, bottom out?


I've been away since so no more riding time since the above report. But the mezzer does exactly what you expect. It's simply better than anything else out there in spring, damper and chassis.

Mara is not ready yet. My one is a pre-production and changes are still being made. I want the bigger King-can to fit my frame and riding (not yet available in my size). But I'm still very happy with it.
It is smooth and controlled with plenty of low speed compression and rebound control without being harsh or sluggish over faster chop and hard landings. It feels similar to a McLeod but has a lot more thermal mass so doesn't change rebound speed noticably as it heats and cools (we fix that on McLeod with a better oil spec).


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Great info about bleeding, as I have tons of those syringes with M5 thread


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Three air chambers of the correct size can do the job of a coil spring. There is still a strong preference and market for coil springs, but the performance gains are not what they used to be.
> 
> That said. Plenty of room inside for a Smashpot coil spring, but no need for the aftermarket HBO.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Other advantages over the mcleod from performance perspective, smoother of the top and through the stroke?


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Banner ad on Pinkbike. Oder now. Come on Manitou, get it together


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Schulze said:


> Banner ad on Pinkbike. Oder now. Come on Manitou, get it together


Yeah, but I did not even realize that was an add for the Mezzer till you said it!


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

You can order the Mezzer now directly from Manitou. Been that way for close to a month now. In all offsets options


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Vespasianus said:


> Yeah, but I did not even realize that was an add for the Mezzer till you said it!


Showing as a full page ad for me. So while that part at the very top center doesn't do much to describe the sides do


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

bigdrunk said:


> I am looking for a 29" 140mm travel fork for a "lite-ish" upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?


This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.

The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.

I still contend that Manitou needs to revise the Mattoc for a 1800g target weight in 29" format, 150mm max travel, more stiffer ness est, clearance for 29x2.6 but lower a2c, without much of a price increase.

Basically, a slimmed down Mezzer would suffice.

Otherwise, I don't have much interest in a Mattoc and will gladly pay the higher price for the Mezzer for far superior combination of features. I mean really, who wouldn't?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Thanks. Other advantages over the mcleod from performance perspective, smoother of the top and through the stroke?


I'm guessing you mean Mattoc?

Smoother off the top (bigger negative spring) and the HSC range is now exactly where you want it. I never used the HSC on my Mattoc, it stayed open.

Otherwise bigger and beefier.



PHeller said:


> This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.
> 
> The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.
> 
> ...


The Mattoc did a great job competing with the Lyrik and F36. The riders I put on a Mattoc got faster than their prior forks and didn't get a beating.
The thing the Mattoc was missing completely was a big travel 29" version.

All I can tell you about the Manitou Engineers, is they have plenty to do.

Lower A-C isn't doable without shorter travel or smaller wheels. The limit is the crown thickness (which is dictated by steerer tube interface) and tyre clearance (which has to be about 5-6mm at full travel).

Gone are the days when some forks were 20+mm longer for no real reason.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

£899 in chainreaction - waiting till next year and hopefully should see the price come down a lot.


----------



## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Read the whole thread, and the only thing I'm wondering is when will Vorsprung make a top cap for it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I'm guessing you mean Mattoc?
> 
> Smoother off the top (bigger negative spring) and the HSC range is now exactly where you want it. I never used the HSC on my Mattoc, it stayed open.
> 
> ...


No, shortly before my question you told us about your mara ;-)
you said, it basically felt the same dampingwhise.

So let's say it like this: if I have a specifically shimmed mcleod, which works great for me, better than x fusion vector air and coil, Jade, Bos vipr, monarch plus, dvo Topaz, and even does work fine and 12 minutes of descent,what can I gain frome the Mara except ease of service and external tuning?
I really want it already only because of the last 2 features. But is there more to it?

Currently my Bird AM 9 is out of order as I do lack the 230*65mm shock. No mcleod with kingcan available in this size neither the Mara :-/


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> No, shortly before my question you told us about your mara ;-)
> you said, it basically felt the same dampingwhise.
> 
> So let's say it like this: if I have a specifically shimmed mcleod, which works great for me, better than x fusion vector air and coil, Jade, Bos vipr, monarch plus, dvo Topaz, and even does work fine and 12 minutes of descent,what can I gain frome the Mara except ease of service and external tuning?
> ...


Oh right.

Yes my Mara feels a lot like the McLeod. They're aiming for the same tuning range. I haven't custom tuned mine, it's still as it arrived.

Mara is for those needing a heavier shock (more thermal mass and better cooling from more oil and aluminium) and the external damping adjustments (incl work/party switch).

If you've got a McLeod, with the tune you need, that does everything you need, then why change? 
The other fitment sizes and King-Cans are coming. I'm waiting for one too.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

PHeller said:


> This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.
> 
> The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.
> 
> ...


I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).

1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
2 Larger negative spring
3 Reduced IRT volume
4 Lighter HSC like Dougal said (if that goes light enough for 55-65kg riders as well than fine, if not; offer a light tune version). Plenty of ladies who could use a light weight 150mm 29er fork with compression damping suited for them).
5 -150gr for the 29 option
6 More offset options (Mezzer values are welll chosen)

- Tire clearance for me is fine since the integrated mudguard
- Stiffness is fine as well. Need stiffer, buy a Mezzer

1-4 they could possibly do as a big update on the existing chassis, keeping cost and development time down. 5 and 6 would be a different story.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

CS645 said:


> I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).
> 
> 1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
> 2 Larger negative spring
> ...


I think all of this things would make the Mattoc better and extremely competitive.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

CS645 said:


> I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).
> 
> 1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
> 2 Larger negative spring
> ...


2 its impossible due to stanchion design and stroke range
3 has no sens with such a big positive chamber. Irt engages too late with bigger split.

I tried to do it myself by after measuring all internals its impossible. Only way its something like luftkappe, with thinner than stanchion negative chamber enlargement. Imo Manitou did all whats possible to Mattoc.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Oh right.
> 
> Yes my Mara feels a lot like the McLeod. They're aiming for the same tuning range. I haven't custom tuned mine, it's still as it arrived.
> 
> ...


To be fair, both Dougal and my prototype Mara's are actually running McLeod main pistons and tunes. They are more of a proof of concept. The newer versions have updated damper designs that are going to work much better than what we currently have.

King cans will be stock on production Mara's. They are getting pretty close to ready to hit the market. Shouldn't be too much longer.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

Just put the mezzer on yesterday. 27.5 180mm 37mm offset, very smooth straight out of the box. Definitely noticed the lower offset than the 41mm Mattoc it replaced, very smooth feeling without the wheel flop. Should be able to ride it next week, get the settings dialed in.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm seriously considering getting a Mezzer in 160mm for my Pole 140 Evolink. I'm currently on MRP Ribbon air but looking for something different now.

I was originally considering switching to a Lyrik Ultimate as it seemed to get good reviews for suppleness, stiffness and being RS, spares are readily available and it's mostly DIY serviceable with basic tools.

Manitou appears to have has a great following with people raving about their dampers and air springs so it the Mezzer is now on my radar.

I have a few questions.

Are service parts generally easy to come by or is it usually a case of never being in stock or only available from obscure online retailers? Did a quick search and of the 'big' online retailers only Universal seemed to stock seals etc.
Is the special tool kit required for the Mezzzer?
What is Manitou's warranty and service like? Do they respond quickly and make warranty an easy process? MRP have been 1st class and dealt with a binding issue very quickly. Had the fork turned around door to door in a week. Also being able to just phone them and speak to their tech about an issue is very reassuring.
There seems to be a lack of reviews on the Mezzer. I would have expected to see a dew out by now from some of the larger online MTB sites. Does Manitou not send their products out for review?
Between the Lyrik and Mezzer, the Mezzer is my first choice, just need to be sure about the warranty, service and support for the product. Don't want to be waiting weeks for a warranty issue to be resolved or not being able to perform a repair or service due to lack of availability of parts.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

trail-blazer said:


> . Don't want to be waiting weeks for a warranty issue to be resolved or not being able to perform a repair or service due to lack of availability of parts.


I can say with 100% confidence you will get way better customer service from Manitou than from RS!!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

bdundee said:


> I can say with 100% confidence you will get way better customer service from Manitou than from RS!!


The service intervals are longer and bleeding the mezzer s damper is easier. And it has ports that will rather prevent a blowing bladder than the rs counterpart


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I run a dorado on my evolink 158.
Manitou kits is obscenely reliable. In the 15years of manitou kit I snapped one crown clip on my '15. They asked for a photo of my torque wrench, then sent out an upgraded replacement.
In the 15 years I've replaced wipers once. 
Nothing else has failed.
I'm swapping seals every 6 months on wifey's RS stuff. 

I do not get why they don't have a bigger following. Manitou stuff is great.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

the only thing Im worried about is bladder. Why the hell they didnt make ifp?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> the only thing Im worried about is bladder. Why the hell they didnt make ifp?


Weight and friction were the 2 biggest factors in every decision. Both point to bladder over IFP


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Weight and friction were the 2 biggest factors in every decision. Both point to bladder over IFP


is it available as sparepart or the same situation like with bladder for charger 2, 2.1?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> is it available as sparepart or the same situation like with bladder for charger 2, 2.1?


Manitou has a history of making every spare part available, though sometimes it takes a little while before they pop up.

You shouldn't need one though. The damper cartridge has a pressure relief valve built in to prevent ruptures from oil ingestion. The bladder material was also tested for longevity as well. This should be the most reliable bladder damper available, though only years of neglected dampers will show the true story.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou has a history of making every spare part available, though sometimes it takes a little while before they pop up.
> 
> You shouldn't need one though. The damper cartridge has a pressure relief valve built in to prevent ruptures from oil ingestion. The bladder material was also tested for longevity as well. This should be the most reliable bladder damper available, though only years of neglected dampers will show the true story.


Im impressed

Edit: do you have a picture of this valve?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Great stuff, thanks for the replies. I think I'm convinced. Would I need the Manitou tool kit to service the Mezzer?

I'm hoping I can find a labor day discount on it somewhere but it being as new as it is that may be wishful thinking.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

You can make the Manitou fork tools yourself. I cut up a cassette tool and machined down a spare 8mm.

You need the tools one way or the other. The whole set is only $60.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Mezzer only needs the slotted cassette tool.

M5 bleed adapter for the damper too I guess, assuming you want to do a damper service


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Help!

My top cap to the air valve on the lowers is just spinning and will not come off. 
I think it’s just spinning the whole air spring around inside the Stancion, it will not unthread to expose the valve. 

Any ideas how I get this damn thing off?

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Help!
> 
> My top cap to the air valve on the lowers is just spinning and will not come off.
> I think it's just spinning the whole air spring around inside the Stancion, it will not unthread to expose the valve.
> ...


First try depressurising the IRT. That may create enough pressure difference to hold it and undo the cap. If not remove the IRT (careful, you will be releasing pressure) and then use an allen key down inside to hold the air shaft and piston.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Another question, is the 160mm Mezzer just a 180mm Mezzer with a travel reduce spacer already installed at the factory? Just wondering if I should go for the 160mm for convenience if it's the same fork. I intend to increase the travel to 180mm sometime next year when I move to a longer travel frame.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Another question, is the 160mm Mezzer just a 180mm Mezzer with a travel reduce spacer already installed at the factory? Just wondering if I should go for the 160mm for convenience if it's the same fork. I intend to increase the travel to 180mm sometime next year when I move to a longer travel frame.


Yes. Same fork with spacers either installed or not. You get spacers in the box too.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Dougal said:


> First try depressurising the IRT. That may create enough pressure difference to hold it and undo the cap. If not remove the IRT (careful, you will be releasing pressure) and then use an allen key down inside to hold the air shaft and piston.


Thanks Dougal
But man, that doesn't work. The air piston doesn't have a Allen fitting and I can't even get it close to stoping 
Spinning.
Any other ideas?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Thanks Dougal
> But man, that doesn't work. The air piston doesn't have a Allen fitting and I can't even get it close to stoping
> Spinning.
> Any other ideas?


The cap should only be finger tight!

Push a rubber rod in there against the piston to load it against the top-out bumper. See if that will help.

Shock torquing the cap to undo it would likely work.

Otherwise lots of options to destroy the cap and get it off.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Spent two days in the bike park this past weekend. Mezzer, 29, 44mm offset, set to 180mm. I'm 220ish with gear. Started with the recommended air pressures and never deviated:
64 main
92 IRT +10 for DH (102 psi)
I agree with other assertions that the compression damping is light. Toyed with HSC and LSC, cranking them both from open to closed with little appreciable difference in feel.
Settled on Rebound compression of 2 from closed.

Frame of reference: Coming from a F36, ACS3, and Push tuned damper. 160mm.

So with a 20mm difference in travel, its not apples to apples, however the Mezzer gives up nothing to the custom F36 (which was not clapped out and freshly tuned, I might add). Lower main chamber pressure delivered sensitivity off the top, IRT did exactly as advertised: keeping the fork form diving in corners or while plopping down rooty and rocky double blacks. according to the O ring, I found the bottom a couple of times, but wouldn't have known without looking.

Couple of notes: 
1) The damper side nut is almost impossible to get tight enough to keep bath oil in the right fork leg. Give it extra attention if take it apart to change travel.
2) A Maxxis Assegai 2.5 will lightly rub inside the fender. 
3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.

Overall, I think she's a keeper. May crank her down to 140mm to see how she gets along on my trail bike.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I (215-220lbs, 160mm 29, Sentinel Carbon) ended up settling on:

75psi main, 110psi IRT, 3 HSC (from closed), 3 LSC (from closed)

I tried backing down to 105psi and there was slightly less support than I prefer.

Only other observation are:

a) The IRT cap should have some kind of seal on it, I have it tight and still managed to get some dirt/debris under it. 
b) There is a minor amount of bushing play at full extension, it seems to go away when the fork is slightly compressed.

I let a friend of mine ride it while I rode his bike with the GRIP2, tuned for both of our weight, and he really liked it. His impressions were the same as mine: quieter, more composed, holds a line better, and more compliant. Closing the compression adjusters on the Mezzer seems to make it feel closer to the GRIP2/Helm.

I wasn't blown away by the GRIP2 like I thought I would be. It is a lot closer to the Helm than I expected in terms of damping performance, much firmer even opened up and less compliant than the Mezzer. It wasn't horrible by any means, but wasn't as game changing as I'd expected.



tdc_worm said:


> 2) A Maxxis Assegai 2.5 will lightly rub inside the fender.
> 3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.


#2: Weird, I ran that w/ I9 Enduro 305 wheels and never had any rub. Same with my Vigilante 2.5.

#3: Happened on Saturday


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

tdc_worm said:


> 3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.


I hope you told them you were experimenting with low fork offset.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> Couple of notes:
> 1) The damper side nut is almost impossible to get tight enough to keep bath oil in the right fork leg. Give it extra attention if take it apart to change travel.


Use a ring spanner on the nut and an 8mm allen key in the damper shaft. That lets you nip it up.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Use a ring spanner on the nut and an 8mm allen key in the damper shaft. That lets you nip it up.


I did it like that no problems at all


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Good to see some ride reports. 

I ordered the 27.5 170mm version this morning to replace the 2015 or 2016 Yari that I had upgraded with v1 Charger RCT3 and Debonair spring. I was thinking of another damper upgrade but decided it was time to refresh the front suspension.

I had all but decided on the new Lyrik Ultimate but stumbled upon the Mezzer and decided to take a chance... on paper I like what it brings to the table for the same price as the Lyrik.

We’ll see!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.

Fun

29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

KenDobson said:


> My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.
> 
> Fun
> 
> 29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson


Bummer. I hope you get it sorted without any issues. I'm watching with interest as I'm about to pull the trigger on the Mezzer.

I'd imagine that if it was like that out of the box and hasn't been mounted yet then Jenson should send out a new replacement.

Good luck.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.
> 
> Fun
> 
> 29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson


That's not right. Hayes will want your fork back to see what's gone wrong. I've sent some emails with your contact details to Hayes.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

double post


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So the damping is light, as in not functional? Why would the damping make so little difference, I thought that was the whole idea with building a better fork??

I suppose everyone is different, but I found no real love with RS damping, the Fox FIT4 is terrible, but I do like the GRIP; haven't tried GRIP2.

So how is the hydraulilc bottom out?

What's with the leakage issues and adjusting knob failures?

For 1000USD, I think I'll wait for V2, meanwhile loving my Smashpot Bomber combo.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> That's not right. Hayes will want your fork back to see what's gone wrong. I've sent some emails with your contact details to Hayes.


I like Manitou, but they really need to spend a few minutes with each fork, turning the adjustments all the way in and out, compressing fully, etc...

These are $1000usd each, not small chickens.

After reading about that Italian shock on PB, where they said they put each shock on a dyno before shipping, it seems to me that should be a standard.

I remember when Manitou Mastodons were having the "settling" steerer tube issues, man that must of put some folks off.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> So the damping is light, as in not functional? Why would the damping make so little difference, I thought that was the whole idea with building a better fork??
> 
> I suppose everyone is different, but I found no real love with RS damping, the Fox FIT4 is terrible, but I do like the GRIP; haven't tried GRIP2.
> 
> ...


The damping dials make a big and noticable difference. Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.

The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.

The hydraulic bottom out does exactly what it should and is completely invisible. Manitou have 10 years of HBO now, the Dorado has had it since 2009 and various Mattoc and Minute forks since 2014. I love it, it's always a shock to get back on another fork that doesn't have it.

We have one fork with a knob problem. We've got people on it.



Nurse Ben said:


> I like Manitou, but they really need to spend a few minutes with each fork, turning the adjustments all the way in and out, compressing fully, etc...
> 
> These are $1000usd each, not small chickens.
> 
> ...


Having been inside the Manitou factory and watched assembly, it's a slick operation. Rear shocks (McLeod) were all dyno'd after assembly to check damping range.

The Mastodon steerer issue was sorted as soon as it was discovered.

You should check the user reviews of that Italian shock. It's great that you like your customised Vorsprung/Fox/Marzocchi combo fork. But see if you can get a ride on a Mezzer and make your own opinion.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks Dougal, It was nice talking to you on the phone. Your input here is valuable.

Jenson, which is simply there system needs the fork back, then credit me, then I get to decide if I reorder this fork which is now on backorder for 2 weeks or just order a different fork.

Today was going to be exciting then it wasnt. HaHa


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Thanks Dougal, It was nice talking to you on the phone. Your input here is valuable.
> 
> Jenson, which is simply there system needs the fork back, then credit me, then I get to decide if I reorder this fork which is now on backorder for 2 weeks or just order a different fork.
> 
> Today was going to be exciting then it wasnt. HaHa


29" 44mm offset forks are showing as in stock on the Manitou-MTB website. So no idea why Jenson are saying 2 weeks.

We'll see if we can get some good news to you tomorrow.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> The damping dials make a big and noticable difference. Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.
> 
> The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.
> 
> ...


I trust you Dougal, you give good advice and you're consistent in what you say, but you need to tell Manitou to check each fork cuz one bad response can cause a cascade.

Thanks for clarifying the "light damping" question, as long as it works for damping, I agree that a full lockout is really not needed on a fork like the Mezzer; silly really.

The hydraulic bottom out is one of the things that I like, esp after experiencing the Vorsprung Smashpot.

I think my buddy Greg will end up on a Mezzer, maybe them I'll get to try one.

Any idea if they'll OEM on any bikes come 2020?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Here are some spring-rate equivalents (mid-stroke) for the Mezzer IRT system. I've created these based off charts from the Manitou engineering team. Primarily for to get equivalence to my spring-rate calculators for quick and easy setup.

Spring rate calculators: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/calculators-14/bike-spring-rate-calculators

Equivalent spring-rate, Lower main pressure/upper IRT pressure.

30lb/in = 30/45psi
35lb/in = 35/55psi
40lb/in = 40/80psi
45lb/in = 50/90psi
50lb/in = 60/100psi

I've revised and softened my spring pressure after my initial (downhill shuttle) rides. I was running 45/80 and now at 40/80. It seems like a minor change but there's about 10% difference in spring force across the stroke.

Their charts show the lower main pressure affects the entire stroke a lot more than I was expecting.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I trust you Dougal, you give good advice and you're consistent in what you say, but you need to tell Manitou to check each fork cuz one bad response can cause a cascade.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying the "light damping" question, as long as it works for damping, I agree that a full lockout is really not needed on a fork like the Mezzer; silly really.
> 
> ...


We absolutely know what happens when an assembly mistake gets out. But the most important things are to get a good one to the customer and get the mistake back to find out what went wrong, how it went wrong and make sure it doesn't recur.

The other issue with a wider than needed damping range is it compromises the damping in in the ranges you need. Both in curve shape and resolution for each click.

The OEM guys have lips sealed shut. They tell me nothing.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

Got the mezzer installed and took it for a test ride in santa cruz. I'm 185lbs, running 42psi main/ 75psi irt, 1 click lsc, 1 click hsc. rebound pretty fast, dont know the clicks. Riding this bike,









Holy shitballs. I had been riding a gen1 Mattoc @170mm travel, 41mm offset with 26" wheels for the past 4.5 years and considered that an amazing fork, it did what i wanted, was easy to service and tune and was more sensitive and plush than my friends' coil or air forks. But this is multiple levels above that.

The stiffness first off is huge over the mattoc, doesnt deflect or flex at high speeds or over angled roots. The travel feels seamless between initial, midstroke and bottom out. Used full travel once, but couldnt feel it. Very composed on bigger jumps and choppy sections.

The offset surprised me with how much it improved the handling of the bike. It felt as though front wheel grip was endless even on off camber corners and inside lines at speed. Really made the bike feel more balanced and stable, although it was obviously underforked before with the mattoc.

So far i have zero complaints, the quality look and feel are impressive, the compression adjusters on top are noticeably smoother and more defined than the mattoc. I am going to recommend it to my riding buddies. It was worth the wait and cost.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.


Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.

Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.

Somehow I guess that can be translated as trying to get the fork to lock out in a car park.

Thanks for the tip on how to tighten the damper nut....I failed to see that it will accept an 8mm key.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.
> 
> Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.
> 
> ...


You don't feel any difference between LSC and HSC both wide open and fully closed?


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

tdc_worm said:


> Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.
> 
> Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.
> 
> ...


On a Mattoc, when you turn the HSC or LSC individually to fully closed, you might not feel anything in a push test but if you close both together, the fork should almost lock out. That is an easy way to make sure the compression system is working OK.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> You don't feel any difference between LSC and HSC both wide open and fully closed?


HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.

ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.

again...the fork is performing admirably. I would be hard pressed to recommend a coil and custom tune over the Mezzer in stock fashion...unless the rider were 220lb+ before gear.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Odd, I weigh about 215-220 with gear and I felt a difference with the HSC adjuster in particular. I ran the same 2 or so minute section with it open and closed, with it closed the bike felt more responsive and the fork rode higher, but it was a bit harsher and resulted in more arm pump. When open, it was more compliant and less supportive. The LSC adjustments were a bit more subtle in difference, I'm not entirely certain I've found a setting I'm confident in with the LSC adjuster yet.

Even closed off, I can't say I felt it spike like some others tend to do once the HSC adjuster reaches a certain point (e.g. DVO), so the difference may not be as significant as other forks when the HSC adjuster is closed, but I felt it was there.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Adodero said:


> Odd, I weigh about 215-220 with gear and I felt a difference with the HSC adjuster in particular. I ran the same 2 or so minute section with it open and closed, with it closed the bike felt more responsive and the fork rode higher, but it was a bit harsher and resulted in more arm pump. When open, it was more compliant and less supportive. The LSC adjustments were a bit more subtle in difference, I'm not entirely certain I've found a setting I'm confident in with the LSC adjuster yet.
> 
> Even closed off, I can't say I felt it spike like some others tend to do once the HSC adjuster reaches a certain point (e.g. DVO), so the difference may not be as significant as other forks when the HSC adjuster is closed, but I felt it was there.


Cool. I am sure there are lost of variables...and of course, different strokes for different folks. It looks like you are controlling movement with a stiffer [air] spring than me, and less damping. I am using a softer [air] spring and controlling the movement with more damping.

I do think we tend to get wrapped around the "perfect" settings. Its mind numbing to listen to it in motocross. some guys are always tinkering. other guys are fast no matter what. In reality, its impossible to hit the exact same line at the exact same speed with the exact same body position twice in a row. i wonder how often a wrench tells their rider they made some adjustments, when i reality they are just sending the rider back out and depending on placebo effect?

In my opinion, arm pump is not solely related to suspension...but that is a topic for another thread.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

tdc_worm said:


> HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
> LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.
> 
> ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.
> ...


When you close both together what does it feel like?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> In my opinion, arm pump is not solely related to suspension...but that is a topic for another thread.


That's fair, I guess the better way to say it would have been that I felt the bike pushing into me a bit more than I did when it was open. It reminded me more of my Helm closed off, which is a very supportive fork that isn't as compliant as the Mezzer is when the adjusters are open. So it would hit a square edge or feature, but rather than absorb it and track over it, it felt like it was pushing into the rider.

In any case, I did realize that I had my settings off in the previous post. I was 3 from closed on the LSC adjuster, not 7. I edited it to update it.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Vespasianus said:


> When you close both together what does it feel like?


Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.

As of now, the fork is not installed as I am working on a frame warranty.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

So update on the fork. I called Manitou customer service. They are intrested in getting the fork back and looking at it. If the fork goes back to Jenson chances are the Hayes group wont see it for a while. Thinking I will let them fix it and hope to get a perfect fork back. Hopefully I can talk to someone that is actually a service person would be great. Knowing myself if I send it to Jenson I will end up with a Fox 36 Grip2 for sure. Lets see how Hayes warranty and customer service works.

Im thinking postive. Hoping I wont have to ship it to NZ to Dougal to get it fixed properly.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

tdc_worm said:


> Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.


On the Mattoc even 1 or 2 clicks from fully closed won't really "stiffen" up the fork. That only happens when you fully close both. I would argue that if you close them and get a locked out feel, that means everything is working OK.

The two adjusters work together and will impact the ride, but is felt more on the trail and less in the lot if you know what I mean. The Manitou MC2 document has lots of great information.

View attachment MC2-User-Guide.pdf


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

KenDobson said:


> ...Lets see how Hayes warranty and customer service works.
> 
> Im thinking postive. Hoping I wont have to ship it to NZ to Dougal to get it fixed properly.


I expect they will get you taken care of, especially with it being a new and high profile product. The one time I had a problem for Manitou's warranty department, it was handled fairly, promptly and effectively. I was in no particular hurry and only used email to contact them, and they didn't always reply super quick, but they do get back in a reasonable amount of time and they always had a thorough response that addressed my questions. Once I finally got around to sending the item in, they had it back to me very quickly.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

Dougal said:


> The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.


Hi Dougal, 
Can you elaborate a bit more on the quote above and the Mezzer damper?
I'm not a suspension expert, and I always thought support and compliance are opposite of each other with regards to compression damping.
Thanks!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hugelick said:


> Hi Dougal,
> Can you elaborate a bit more on the quote above and the Mezzer damper?
> I'm not a suspension expert, and I always thought support and compliance are opposite of each other with regards to compression damping.
> Thanks!


Yes they are the opposite and to get both requires a damper to be very well designed and tuned.

If a damper has any choke points the suspension will suffer from harshness and may even spike on sharp hits. Without offering support There is a very good example of this selling in huge numbers right now.

If the damper has more compression damping than is needed then it will give lots of support but always feel rough. There is a very good example of this out there right now too.

If a damper has not enough compression damping then compliance will be good but it will not have enough support and will rely too heavily on the spring. Which then reduces compliance. Many examples of this out there too.

Manitou however got it all right out the box with the Mezzer. So it has more support and compliance than everything else.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
> LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.
> 
> ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.
> ...





tdc_worm said:


> Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.
> 
> As of now, the fork is not installed as I am working on a frame warranty.


It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.

HSC dials will make absolutely no difference to how a damper behaves until you reach high enough shaft speed for the low speed circuit to choke. At this point the damper follows the curve of the high speed circuits (shims, ports, preload springs etc).

LSC dials change how the damping force builds with shaft speed up to the curve of the high speed circuits.

If you have a retardedly stiff hsc circuit (looking at you Charger 1 RC) then all the oil goes through the LSC and LSC has an extremely noticable effect. This is not normal and only works that way because of the terrible damper tune.

If you have a soft HSC circuit then the changes in LSC will be subtle enough that most riders cannot feel them until it's near closed or totally closed. Perceptive people will feel the difference in fork behaviour while pumping it between LSC open and closed but not intermediate settings.

To check a damper is working, fully close both LSC and HSC. On a push test the fork should give about 3x more resistance and give a slight platform feel.

If LSC is open even a few clicks the above test won't show anything. If LSC is closed but HSC is open a few clicks most people won't feel anything.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.
> 
> HSC dials will make absolutely no difference to how a damper behaves until you reach high enough shaft speed for the low speed circuit to choke. At this point the damper follows the curve of the high speed circuits (shims, ports, preload springs etc).
> 
> ...


I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.

Can't win em all I guess.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.


perhaps you are right. i expected the clickers to alter the way the fork behaves when running jump trails back to back and also when running technical trails back to back. i should have expected zero difference.

i just mounted a stem and and bars to the fork. my previous settings were LSC 2 clicks from closed and HSC fully closed. I sat the fork legs on a towel on floor. i aggressively pressed on the bars in 3 configurations (almost getting to full travel): last settings, fully closed and fully open. zero difference.



mullen119 said:


> I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.
> 
> Can't win em all I guess.


nailed it. i turned the red knob expecting better wheelies and the blue knob expecting better stoppies in the parking lot. the reports from the trail were my VR feedback.

I believe the fork is working as intended. if springs store energy and dampers diffuse energy, then it stands to reason that the greater force applied to the damper, the more difficulty it has diffusing said force. if, by weight, a rider is living at the periphery of the available settings, then the valving is too light or too heavy for them.

This can be combated, to some degree, by changing your spring rate...we can debate whether or not that is ideal. Its interesting that many in this thread are running spring rates that are north of the recommendations....


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> i just mounted a stem and and bars to the fork. my previous settings were LSC 2 clicks from closed and HSC fully closed. I sat the fork legs on a towel on floor. i aggressively pressed on the bars in 3 configurations (almost getting to full travel): last settings, fully closed and fully open. zero difference.


If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.

The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.

*edit* But you'll only acheive like 0.1-0.2 m/s with hand compression, which is a lot less damping force.
*/edit*


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.
> 
> Can't win em all I guess.


lifting and dropping a bike with fat negative springs feels so good though. NO bounce


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

My fork has arrived at Hayes. Hopefully Monday I will hear something. Hoping this works out and I get a fork that operates as good as it sounds. Does manitou have a team like Fox does in Scotts Valley that are working in house. I have had two forks built by the guys in house with matched bushing and hand picked parts. Those forks and shocks have always been money. 

Now waiting till monday.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ordered my Mezzer today. Scored a 15% labor day discount too so just over $800 delivered. Can't wait to receive it. Hoping it's going to be an improvement over my MRP Ribbon air.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> Ordered my Mezzer today. Scored a 15% labor day discount too so just over $800 delivered. Can't wait to receive it. Hoping it's going to be an improvement over my MRP Ribbon air.


Where did you order from?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

robmac48 said:


> Where did you order from?


Worldwide Cyclery with code laborday-15


----------



## Frosty2019 (Jan 27, 2019)

trail-blazer said:


> Worldwide Cyclery with code laborday-15


Best Deal going around. Only 51 offset though unfortunately.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.

Best Mezzer video yet.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.
> 
> Best Mezzer video yet.


1 hour 8 minutes! I'm going to have to email Dave and ask for a highlights reel!


----------



## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

KenDobson said:


> This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.
> 
> Best Mezzer video yet.


Wasn't there some plugin for Chrome or IE that was able to translate (by adding captions) to the video? Does that ring a bell with anyone?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Trying to get things ready for when my fork arrives.

1) Will I need the slotted cassette tool to change the travel?
2) I have plenty Rockshox fork oil on 15WT and 5WT. Will any of those do for replenishing the lower leg oil when is the travel adjust? If not what is the oil spec?

I looked on the Manitou site but couldn't find and service docs for the Mezzer. Guess the fork is still so new that they haven't got the documentation ready yet.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Trying to get things ready for when my fork arrives.
> 
> 1) Will I need the slotted cassette tool to change the travel?
> 2) I have plenty Rockshox fork oil on 15WT and 5WT. Will any of those do for replenishing the lower leg oil when is the travel adjust? If not what is the oil spec?
> ...


1. Yes.
2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.

Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> 1. Yes.
> 2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.
> 
> Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.


Thanks Dougal. Do you know what the fork oil service interval is?
I found this for the oil. Is that correct? Doesn't appear to say Motorex on the bottle.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

One Pivot said:


> You can make the Manitou fork tools yourself. I cut up a cassette tool and machined down a spare 8mm.
> 
> You need the tools one way or the other. The whole set is only $60.


How big does does the slot on the cassette tool need to be? I have a couple spare so can have a go at cutting one up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Thanks Dougal. Do you know what the fork oil service interval is?
> I found this for the oil. Is that correct? Doesn't appear to say Motorex on the bottle.


That's the stock damper oil. But it's not used for the lower leg lubrication.



trail-blazer said:


> How big does does the slot on the cassette tool need to be? I have a couple spare so can have a go at cutting one up.


The shaft is 10mm, the slot needs to reach around that without any damage. Make sure you've got no sharp edges.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> 1. Yes.
> 2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.
> 
> Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.


21 ml of bath oil in each leg.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

davideb87 said:


> 21 ml of bath oil in each leg.


Yeah 20ml is ok. Confirmed.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> That's the stock damper oil. But it's not used for the lower leg lubrication.


OK, is this correct for lower legs?
https://www.motorex.com/en-us/bike-line/fork-oil/racing-fork-oil-5w/


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> OK, is this correct for lower legs?
> https://www.motorex.com/en-us/bike-line/fork-oil/racing-fork-oil-5w/


No, viscosity is too low


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davideb87 said:


> No, viscosity is too low


Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40


Got it. Thanks


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just some random weight comparison...

2018 Lyrik RC 27.5 37mm offset with 170mm Debonair airshaft - 1998g

Same Lyrik but with DSD Runt and Push HC97 damper - 2067g

Same Lyrik but with DSD runt and Avalanche damper (w/ FvAT/HSB) - 2201g

2019 DVO Diamond 27.5 Boost @ 170mm - 2336g

I will say, the Runt and the Avalanche damper is pretty good so far. If the Mezzer can match it while being almost 200g lighter and with a stiffer chassis, that's pretty rad.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40


thicc bois. wow.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40





FactoryMatt said:


> thicc bois. wow.


Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil

Here's a nice application chart:









Supergliss is more slippery, but also more temperature sensitive.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

interesting. wonder what the difference in viscosity index is between the two. and if there are additives in that 5w40 that help/hinder when used in damper application.


----------



## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil
> 
> Here's a nice application chart:
> ...


Which Supergliss do you sell @Dougal?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Boom King said:


> Which Supergliss do you sell @Dougal?


Three different viscosities: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/supergliss-lubricating-oil-250-to-1000-cc-motorex.html

Supergliss 100K is the one I've been supplying for about 6 or so years. 100 cSt @40C.
Supergliss 68K is 1/3 thinner. 68 cSt @ 40C.
Supergliss 32K is the thinnest. 32 cSt @ 40C.

So I made up that chart to show the best use of each one. Here's a viscosity chart for those who want to see more detail:


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil
> 
> Here's a nice application chart:
> ...


Interesting chart. So for ultimate performance you'd go Supergliss 100K for the summer and switch to Supergliss 32K for the winter.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> interesting. wonder what the difference in viscosity index is between the two. and if there are additives in that 5w40 that help/hinder when used in damper application.


Viscosity Index (VI)
170 for the 5W40 and 0W40
100 for Supergliss 100K and 68K
117 for Supergliss 32K

Hilariously, Supergliss 32K is better in the hot and cold than many 32 cSt fork oils!
Motorex say it has a pour point of -18C, but at -25C it's still sloshing around perfectly fine so I guess they just threw out a safe number.



trail-blazer said:


> Interesting chart. So for ultimate performance you'd go Supergliss 100K for the summer and switch to Supergliss 32K for the winter.


That's a solid option.

I run Supergliss 100K in summer, I previously ran Polar 0W40 over winter with excellent results but last winter I didn't ride in the cold and never got around to changing it.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Seems like finding Supergliss in the US is like finding hens teeth. Only place I see it for sale is the German online bike stores. Apparently DT Swiss forks spec the oil too.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40


Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Viscosity Index (VI)
> 170 for the 5W40 and 0W40
> 100 for Supergliss 100K and 68K
> 117 for Supergliss 32K
> ...


awesome! thanks for sharing. makes sense why the 5w40 is used for a continent (world?)-wide factory fill then.

for the hardcore tuners out there, you're still better off with a more climate/season-specific oil looks like.

really curious how all the additives and detergents in newer oils interact with dampers though. SAPS and all that, and if race oils without all that would be better (maybe thats what supergliss is?)


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Adodero said:


> Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?


The motorex 4T was found to have the best performance over a wide range of temperatures. There are better warm and better cold oils, but nothing could compete with 4T over ta wide range of temps, that's why it was chosen.

Similar oils from other brands won't give the same performance, but I wouldn't say they would be detrimental to the fork. If you only ride in temps above 40F/5c, the easiest oil to get that works well is Fox Gold. Its worth buying supergliss 100k from Dougal if you want top performance,I highly recommend it.

I personally don't think supergliss 32k is worth the hassle in cold weather though, at least where I live. If I'm riding in the cold, its slick out and the speeds are much slower. In these situations, I don't need a super oil, the stock 4T is plenty good. The only way I would buy 32k or 64k would be if my summers are not that hot and I can run it all year. That's just my opinion though, if you can ride just as hard in the winter as in the summer, the extra performance of the supergliss may be worth it.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> The motorex 4T was found to have the best performance over a wide range of temperatures. There are better warm and better cold oils, but nothing could compete with 4T over ta wide range of temps, that's why it was chosen.
> 
> Similar oils from other brands won't give the same performance, but I wouldn't say they would be detrimental to the fork. If you only ride in temps above 40F/5c, the easiest oil to get that works well is Fox Gold. Its worth buying supergliss 100k from Dougal if you want top performance,I highly recommend it.
> 
> I personally don't think supergliss 32k is worth the hassle in cold weather though, at least where I live. If I'm riding in the cold, its slick out and the speeds are much slower. In these situations, I don't need a super oil, the stock 4T is plenty good. The only way I would buy 32k or 64k would be if my summers are not that hot and I can run it all year. That's just my opinion though, if you can ride just as hard in the winter as in the summer, the extra performance of the supergliss may be worth it.


Great, good to know. I'm in WNC (typically ride in Pisgah), it does get below 40f in the winter, but my typical limit is around 30-32f before I don't feel like going outside anymore. Sounds like the 100k may be the best option then.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Seems like finding Supergliss in the US is like finding hens teeth. Only place I see it for sale is the German online bike stores. Apparently DT Swiss forks spec the oil too.


I ship quite a bit over to the states. Yes it was DT Swiss that first started me looking at it.



Adodero said:


> Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?


Motor oil is designed to adhere and survive shearing. Which it does very well but the slipperiness varies from excellent to terrible depending on brand and type.
Manitou found the Motorex 5W40 back in 2003 (semibath) and it's still the best oil for single fill worldwide.

Damper oil is designed to stay stable over a wider temperature range. Which it does very well but it doesn't adhere like motor oils.

Supergliss is an industrial lubrication oil. It's designed to adhere and lubricate like nothing else.

*Official Mezzer bath oil quantities. 15cc per side. May require top-up of about 7cc each side every 25 hours.*


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Adodero said:


> Great, good to know. I'm in WNC (typically ride in Pisgah), it does get below 40f in the winter, but my typical limit is around 30-32f before I don't feel like going outside anymore. Sounds like the 100k may be the best option then.


I'm in CLT, so ride up in Pisgah quite frequently. Actually just got back from there. Can't wait to try out the Mezzer up there.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> I ship quite a bit over to the states. Yes it was DT Swiss that first started me looking at it.
> .
> .
> .
> *Official Mezzer bath oil quantities. 15cc per side. May require top-up of about 7cc each side every 25 hours.*


Thanks, good to know you ship to the US.

Where is the oil going? Is it coming out the top seals? 7cc every 25 hours seems like a lot to lose.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> I'm in CLT, so ride up in Pisgah quite frequently. Actually just got back from there. Can't wait to try out the Mezzer up there.


It feels awesome, tracks so nicely especially on the chunky stuff. It's really awesome in corners and switchbacks. I've been able to line the bike up really nicely with the outside of corners in ways that I haven't before, mainly I can take a wider line even if it's a chunkier or more difficult line and the bike tracks better, which is nice for a long wheelbase bike like my Sentinel.

We did Buckwheat Knob last weekend along with the new Avery and it did really well. I roll most of the drops on Buckwheat and it did great, no diving, but also tracked really well on the eroded sections of the trail. I also rode it at Sugar bike park this past weekend and it was fantastic there, also. I'm not a shredder by any means, but I thought it did a great job of standing up to it's travel and tracking over features at the same time.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Any issues with the reverse arch and compatibility with racks that use the front wheel hook-style clamp (like my Kuat Sherpa)?

I've always clamped it with the hook slightly braced against the arch on my current fork and it dawned on me last night when loading the bike that the arch won't be there anymore and the stanchions might be exposed to the clamp.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Adodero said:


> It feels awesome, tracks so nicely especially on the chunky stuff. It's really awesome in corners and switchbacks. I've been able to line the bike up really nicely with the outside of corners in ways that I haven't before, mainly I can take a wider line even if it's a chunkier or more difficult line and the bike tracks better, which is nice for a long wheelbase bike like my Sentinel.
> 
> We did Buckwheat Knob last weekend along with the new Avery and it did really well. I roll most of the drops on Buckwheat and it did great, no diving, but also tracked really well on the eroded sections of the trail. I also rode it at Sugar bike park this past weekend and it was fantastic there, also. I'm not a shredder by any means, but I thought it did a great job of standing up to it's travel and tracking over features at the same time.


That sounds awesome. Can't wait to try it. I've yet to go explore the new work done on Avery & Black Mountain. I ride a Pole so also on a long bike.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

*Manitou Mezzer Official Service Guide*

Here is the official Manitou Mezzer Service Schedule.


25hrs - Add 7cc (each leg)
50hrs - full bath change (15cc), seal lubrication.
75hr - Add 7cc (each leg)
100hrs - half service (oil bath change, air spring lube)
125hrs - Add 7cc (each leg)
150hrs - full bath change (15cc), seal lubrication.
175hr - Add 7cc (each leg)
200hrs - Full service (seal/foam ring change, oil bath change, Damper oil change, air spring seal change)

You can run 20cc of bath oil to skip the 25/75/125/175 hour intermediate top-ups. But it will make the fork noisier.

Factory Oil Spec:
Bath Oil: Manitou Semibath (Motorex 5W40 Powersynt)
Damper Oil: Maxima 5wt (similar to 85-150)
Seal Grease: Slickoleum (aka Slick Honey)

Foot nut torque spec:
30-40 in-lb (3.5-4.5Nm).


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> Any issues with the reverse arch and compatibility with racks that use the front wheel hook-style clamp (like my Kuat Sherpa)?
> 
> I've always clamped it with the hook slightly braced against the arch on my current fork and it dawned on me last night when loading the bike that the arch won't be there anymore and the stanchions might be exposed to the clamp.


I have a bunch of bikes with Manitou forks that I transport with my NV2. No issues


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol 

I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I managed to get a 1000ml of Supergliss 100k from Europe on the way, so I'll give that a shot as soon as it shows up, as I'm close to or over the 50hr interval.



Dougal said:


> You can run 20cc of bath oil to skip the 25/75/125/175 hour intermediate top-ups. But it will make the fork noisier.


I've been running 20cc since I got it and I don't think it's that noisy, then again I'm coming from pretty noisy forks.

Any idea when the service instructions (e.g. bleed) will be available? The 200hr service doesn't require new bladder & damper seals?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

mullen119 said:


> I have a bunch of bikes with Manitou forks that I transport with my NV2. No issues


Good to hear.. thanks.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol
> 
> I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...


That sucks.. mine are out for delivery today. Took Universal like a week to ship because they said I got the last fork and it had to be transferred to their Sparks, NV location.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Fork arrived today. It's a beast!

I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.

Are there any videos or instructions on how to do the travel change? Didn't see any Mezzer docs on Manitou's site.

A couple of initial observations.
There seems to be a bit of stiction. Just tried pressing own on the the fork, there is resistance then the breakaway. cycling the fork makes it go away but after leaving it a few minutes it sticks again. I've left the fork upside down for a while to see if that improves it. I know it's a new fork and will need to bed in. Changing the travel will give me the opportunity to check the oil levels and grease the seals and bushing. I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
Some of the decals were not fully pressed down around all their edges. Just had to run my thumb over all the edges to push them down. No big deal.

Looking forward to giving it a good ride this weekend.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

trail-blazer said:


> Fork arrived today. It's a beast!
> 
> I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.
> 
> ...


Waiting for your impression


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> Fork arrived today. It's a beast!
> 
> I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.
> 
> ...


Follow Manitou mattoc procedures. The only difference is foot nuts on the mezzer and bath oil level.
You will need mattoc cassette tool


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

davideb87 said:


> Follow Manitou mattoc procedures. The only difference is foot nuts on the mezzer and bath oil level.
> You will need mattoc cassette tool


Thanks. Just looked at it and it seems pretty straight forward.

Any reason why I couldn't just drill out a 12mm hole in a normal cassette tool instead of cutting a slot in it? It would seem easier to do. I'd obviously have to make sure all the burrs are removed and not to scratch the rod when sliding the tool down the air spring rod.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Got mine yesterday as well.

Installed it late last night after rebuilding my front wheel with a boost hub.

It definitely has a presence, my non-boost Lyrik looks like a little ***** next to it.

The shaping they did with the crown and lowers for weight reduction is really impressive and attractive in person.

All adjusters have a great quality feel to them, physically and with solid tactile clicks.

The front brake cable retainer doesn't clamp the cable like other forks I've used. It retains it but the cable can slip freely through. I'm not a huge fan of this but we'll see if it causes problems. I may add some tape to the cable to increase diameter.

I dig the axle system.. seems really solid and fit/finish is nice.

I weigh probably ~215 geared up so I pressurized IRT and main chambers to the 200lb/170mm spec and set the damper to the light side of the trail tuning recommendations.

Feels FIRM. I also notice that off the top "sticking" that trail blazer mentioned intially after sitting. My Lyrik has always done this and it's never been an issue in use though.

A quick pedal around the cul-de-sac and a couple of curb smashes is all of the riding I did. Really firm and supportive feel.. so different than my RCT3 Lyrik. Seems like it might be a bit too much pressure and the rebound is probably too quick, but I'll try these settings on the trail later today as a starting point.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Fork arrived today. It's a beast!
> 
> I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.
> 
> ...


That's been typical for me with every fork I've owned except the Helm and Auron. It doesn't feel at all sticky when riding, I'd assume that's just stiction from the rubber wiper seals on the stanchion, could be wrong though.

I usually flip my bike upside down and let it rest for a bit while I get ready, that seems to do away with that initial breakaway stiction also.

If you are in WNC, Squatch has the tools and knowledge to do the travel change, if you'd rather not do it yourself.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Adodero said:


> I managed to get a 1000ml of Supergliss 100k from Europe on the way, so I'll give that a shot as soon as it shows up, as I'm close to or over the 50hr interval.


Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.


20dollars for overseas shipping of something as big as a fork is a lot??? I paid 10euro for brake pads and I live less than 1000km from the store ffs.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

ghostbiker said:


> 20dollars for overseas shipping of something as big as a fork is a lot??? I paid 10euro for brake pads and I live less than 1000km from the store ffs.


It's not a fork, it's a liter of oil I was talking about so read what I wrote and wind it back a little ;-)

And I have no real complaint about the shipping as such, was just asking where he bought his from so I could compare. No sense in paying more than I have to.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.


Bike24, but I think I got the last bottle and shipping is about the same cost. I bought Michelin tires with it, since they are considerably cheaper in the EU, to help mitigate the shipping cost.

The only place I can find 32k or 64k is via Dougal, I'll probably try to get some 32k for winter. Temps here shouldn't drop below 40 until December though...at least I hope not. I expect I'll be alright with smaller quantities of 32k since our temps are in that 5c-30c+ range a lot more than they are in the -5c to 20c range, and my riding in the winter scales back some.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> It's not a fork, it's a liter of oil I was talking about so read what I wrote and wind it back a little ;-)
> 
> And I have no real complaint about the shipping as such, was just asking where he bought his from so I could compare. No sense in paying more than I have to.


It wasn´t showing the quotation before so it seems like you were replying to the ganderson. Sorry if that came out the wrong way I´m just used to paying quite high postage whenever I buy something from Germany, no matter the size or value most stores will charge 10euro or more. If I was you I would buy it from Dougal though, 1 liter is just waste in my opinion unless you share it with someone else or few people actually. Or change lower leg lubrication every 10h.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

ghostbiker said:


> It wasn´t showing the quotation before so it seems like you were replying to the ganderson. Sorry if that came out the wrong way I´m just used to paying quite high postage whenever I buy something from Germany, no matter the size or value most stores will charge 10euro or more. If I was you I would buy it from Dougal though, 1 liter is just waste in my opinion unless you share it with someone else or few people actually. Or change lower leg lubrication every 10h.


No worries. I hear your frustration with the German shipping costs. I'm sure it's intentional to encourage you load up more items to mitigate the shipping costs.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol
> 
> I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...


Update on my attempted fork purchase.

Manitou contacted me with an apology and a offer for a fork I couldn't refuse which I jumped on! Fork should start its journey to me tomorrow. Stoked to get this 

In the space of time between the refund and the new purchase I also bought a custom Avalanche damper for my Lyrik so a direct comparison on the two top end air forks on the same bike is coming! If the Mezzer turns out to be better than the Avalanche tuned Lyrik that'll be stepped up with a smashpot and compared again but I think my front suspension wants and needs are comprehensively covered ;-)

Dougal, I'm not sure if you had anything to do with Manitou contacting me but if you did thanks.


----------



## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.


Contact the US distributor. Dude I spoke to was knowledgeable of the use of Supergliss in bike forks and said he'd sell it direct.

https://eurolineusa.com/category/motorex-products/


----------



## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> No worries. I hear your frustration with the German shipping costs. I'm sure it's intentional to encourage you load up more items to mitigate the shipping costs.


Exactly, on Starbike shipping for a King Can is $27, add on a McLeod drops it to $16, add on a Mattoc drops it to $9.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> In the space of time between the refund and the new purchase I also bought a custom Avalanche damper for my Lyrik so a direct comparison on the two top end air forks on the same bike is coming! If the Mezzer turns out to be better than the Avalanche tuned Lyrik that'll be stepped up with a smashpot and compared again but I think my front suspension wants and needs are comprehensively covered ;-)


 just my $0.02
DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...

FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mike156 said:


> just my $0.02
> DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...
> 
> FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.


lol funny you mention that, I asked if he could anodize the cap black


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

I've got a couple rides on the fork, but first.. Bike Rack:

As I mentioned above I'm using a Kuat Sherpa 2.0. Like many other racks of this type it gets it's security from clamping into the intersection between the fork and wheel.









If you are not more or less touching the fork it leaves room for the hook to potentially disengage from the wheel and lose clamping tension. On the Mezzer this means touching the stanchions (not ok) or compressing the hook into the tire enough to kind of catch a little of the lowers with the hook.










IMO this isn't an ideal rack design for a reverse arch fork and I'll be replacing it with something like the 1up or constantly worrying about it... bummer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Just turn handlebars 180 so the hook will be up against the arch. This is what many have to do with normal forks but the newer long bikes that are too long for many bike racks.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> I've got a couple rides on the fork, but first.. Bike Rack:
> 
> As I mentioned above I'm using a Kuat Sherpa 2.0. Like many other racks of this type it gets it's security from clamping into the intersection between the fork and wheel.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure about the Sherpa. My NV arm is coated in rubber. I push it down hard against the stanchions for the last 4 years with zero issues with any of my Manitou forks. Stanchions are perfect. If your worried about it you can put a rag in-between the arm and the fork.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

The Sherpa has the rubberized hooks too. Interesting to see your going right up against the stanchions with no issues.

I may try a piece of material in between like you suggested, felt or something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bwana said:


> would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.


I might be doing a CSA (crown steerer assembly) swap in the next week or 2 if I have time. That's a complete tear down, so maybe I will take a few pics and write up a guide


----------



## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

Kamkam said:


> Just turn handlebars 180 so the hook will be up against the arch. This is what many have to do with normal forks but the newer long bikes that are too long for many bike racks.


That's clever. While shopping for a rack, I did notice that most had WB limits that were lower than most modern bikes (trail bikes even, not just super long DH bikes). I hadn't thought about turning the bars around

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

mike156 said:


> just my $0.02
> DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...
> 
> FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.


As far as that screwdriver goes, I just filed down the sides of the flathead on my multitool so that it fits/access the compression knob. Kind of a hack but works just fine.

The gold cap on my totally blacked out DH rig goes with the Cane Creek rear shock's gold and the Saint's gold banjo's. So, I'm kinda digging the gold.

And to totally derail I found the Craig's/Avy settings a bit heavily damped for my taste. I'm running the compression about 2-3 clicks softer, and the rebound about 2 clicks faster. The Avy cart is on a Boxxer which had a Charger 1 damper, which seemed to have almost zero damping until you cranked the LSC way up, then it got too harsh. Since I got use to running that with what seemed to be little damping (to me) I think the stock Avy settings seem a bit heavy for me until I get use to it. That said, its a way better fork now and can charge the high speed chunk so much better.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

Was doing a quick lower leg service on my mezzer last weekend, discovered that the finish on one side of the damper shaft has a terrible surface finish, it might be hard to see in the photo but each groove catches the fingernail.

EDIT: Manitou tech support is now looking into it.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.

Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.

I know the air spring has a special valve that fills +/- simultaneously..

What is the official fill/reset procedure for the air spring on this fork?

I assume that the pump should be threaded on all the way until it stops to activate both chambers, correct?

I also assume that both chambers unify/equalize when you do this, correct?

With this system it seems that it would be possible to equalize the chambers with the fork sagged into it's travel creating effectively larger/smaller +/- chambers. I would assume that it is important to ensure that the fork is at the top of its travel before equalizing?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Along the lines of setting up air pressure, the small volume in the third air chambers is extremely sensitive to any air loss while disconnecting the pump. While a tiny burp of air on the main chamber might lose you 1psi when disconnecting the pump, on the small volume with the RUNT it's like 10-15 psi. I assume the IRT is no different.

I bought a cheap mechanical pump with a "no-loss" air fitting and was able to swap the hose assembly off it and on to my digital pump. Works great and it's WAY more repeatable on setting up the air suspension.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

mike156 said:


> Along the lines of setting up air pressure, the small volume in the third air chambers is extremely sensitive to any air loss while disconnecting the pump. While a tiny burp of air on the main chamber might lose you 1psi when disconnecting the pump, on the small volume with the RUNT it's like 10-15 psi. I assume the IRT is no different.
> 
> I bought a cheap mechanical pump with a "no-loss" air fitting and was able to swap the hose assembly off it and on to my digital pump. Works great and it's WAY more repeatable on setting up the air suspension.


You don't lose air when disconnecting a pump. You can drop pressure when attaching the pump unless you prime it first.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

For anyone that was intrested in a follow up regarding my fork issue. As stated earlier CS to a good job getting me a next day return label. Then I received a fork back in four business days shipped via next day air. I am not sure what they did but it was fast and now on to the test ride. It is a 160 travel 44 rake 29er. Its on a Stumpy EVO.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks for the update. Sounds like great customer service especially the next day air shipping. That only cost a small fortune.

When you have a chance, can you take a photo of the Evo with the Mezzer. I'd like to see how it looks on there.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

*Evo with Mezzer*


----------



## jbadger1977 (Jan 17, 2015)

KenDobson said:


> View attachment 1277931
> 
> View attachment 1277933
> 
> View attachment 1277935


That's a nice lookin' rig you got there.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

bdundee said:


> You don't lose air when disconnecting a pump. You can drop pressure when attaching the pump unless you prime it first.


If your pump hose seals internally perfectly and the heights of the valve core and pump pin are perfect, yes I'd agree. Don't bother posting articles about it though, I already know what you are talking about. Real world with a pump that gets used and stuffed in a pack that gets dirt in it and wear, I disagree though.

Generally its not much of an issue, but with the small volume of the third chamber, it matters if you have any kind of issue. For example, a quick tap on the pressure release valve might drop fork pressure 0.5psi, the same like tap drops the third chamber pressure (on the RUNT anyway) 5psi. An order of magnitude difference in sensitivity.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

KenDobson said:


> View attachment 1277931
> 
> View attachment 1277933
> 
> View attachment 1277935


How do you like it and how does it perform with the ext shock at the back?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.
> 
> Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.
> 
> ...


Just two things to remember.

1. Screw the pump on the whole way. That last turn can make the difference between the chambers connecting or not.

2. Pull the fork to full extension (if that's where you want it) before removing the pump.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bwana said:


> would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.


That's Dave and he's real: https://www.instagram.com/rulezman/

It's the most user friendly fork Manitou has made to work on. You just need that slotted cassette tool.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.
> 
> The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.
> 
> ...


So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.

I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Just two things to remember.
> 
> 1. Screw the pump on the whole way. That last turn can make the difference between the chambers connecting or not.
> 
> 2. Pull the fork to full extension (if that's where you want it) before removing the pump.


Thanks Dougal,

I would assume that full extension is the base factory spec.

I was playing around with it yesterday and it's interesting how easy it is to move that zero point around in the travel with the pump connected. That adds a whole other dimension of tuning mind****ery.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

trail-blazer said:


> So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.
> 
> I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.


there is difference. Especially on the trail. Open rebound. Close LSC. Then make comparison with HSC opened and then closed. You must feel it


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.
> 
> I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.


I can't tell what you can or cannot feel. But even on a push test from full open to full closed there is a difference in resistance of about 5-10kg force.

As compression speeds get higher (i.e. riding, not pushing) the force difference gets greater.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

FYI

Air spring fill procedure from Manitou Tech Support:

_"When on the bike you want 20% sag into it's travel, 




Try this, let all the air out of the fork. Invert the fork and hold down the air valve, fully extend fork, let go of air valve once extended. Attached shock pump and fill chamber according to air chart. Set fork up right and fill IRT chamber, start off with 100 PSI. Set sag. Ride for a bit and make adjustments to IRT if needed."_


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> FYI
> 
> Air spring fill procedure from Manitou Tech Support:
> 
> ...


So if I'm reading that correctly, this contradicts their initial fill procedure of first filling the IRT, then filling the air spring. The above implies the opposite.

Also, I assume you let the air out of the IRT first before inverting it to let the air out of the air spring.

Setting or adjusting sag is done from the air spring side right? The above makes it sound like you adjust sag from the IRT or have I completely misunderstood how the IRT works?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

trail-blazer said:


> So if I'm reading that correctly, this contradicts their initial fill procedure of first filling the IRT, then filling the air spring. The above implies the opposite.
> 
> Also, I assume you let the air out of the IRT first before inverting it to let the air out of the air spring.
> 
> Setting or adjusting sag is done from the air spring side right? The above makes it sound like you adjust sag from the IRT or have I completely misunderstood how the IRT works?


Yeah.. I replied that filling the IRT after the air spring contradicts the setup guide but didn't receive a reply.

I reality what happens is filling the air spring compresses the IRT piston, then filling the IRT pushes the piston back toward the air spring and increases the air spring pressure requiring you to reset the air spring anyway.. doesn't make much sense to do it in this order.

And yes, you set the sag with the air spring, not the IRT.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> Yeah.. I replied that filling the IRT after the air spring contradicts the setup guide but didn't receive a reply.
> 
> I reality what happens is filling the air spring compresses the IRT piston, then filling the IRT pushes the piston back toward the air spring and increases the air spring pressure requiring you to reset the air spring anyway.. doesn't make much sense to do it in this order.
> 
> And yes, you set the sag with the air spring, not the IRT.


This is correct. Not sure why tech support would say to fill main chamber first. Filling IRT first ensures that the IRT piston tops out, and that the main spring doesn't become over pressurized.


----------



## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm looking at possibly getting a Mezzer for my Chameleon C to replace a FIT4 Fox 36. I'll change the travel to 140mm. How hard and messy is it to change the travel on the Mezzer?

I know Manitou makes really, really good suspension products that are largely underrated and forgotten about.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

almazing said:


> I'm looking at possibly getting a Mezzer for my Chameleon C to replace a FIT4 Fox 36. I'll change the travel to 140mm. How hard and messy is it to change the travel on the Mezzer?
> 
> I know Manitou makes really, really good suspension products that are largely underrated and forgotten about.


It's really easy, but you do need the slotted cassette tool. I cut a slot in a spare I had otherwise you need to buy it but I've only seen it sold as a set of three tools for $60, two of which are not needed for the Mezzer so I you're able it's worth making your own.

Briefly the process is, remove the air, remove the foot nuts, pull off the lowers, undo the end of the air spring with the slotted cassette tool and pull out the air piston. Add the spaces that are included, grease and re-assemble in reverse order. If you keep the lowers horizontal when removing them you won't lose oil so they can go straight back on.


----------



## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> It's really easy, but you do need the slotted cassette tool. I cut a slot in a spare I had otherwise you need to buy it but I've only seen it sold as a set of three tools for $60, two of which are not needed for the Mezzer so I you're able it's worth making your own.
> 
> Briefly the process is, remove the air, remove the foot nuts, pull off the lowers, undo the end of the air spring with the slotted cassette tool and pull out the air piston. Add the spaces that are included, grease and re-assemble in reverse order. If you keep the lowers horizontal when removing them you won't lose oil so they can go straight back on.


Thanks! Just to make absolutely sure, changing the travel also changes the axle to crown, correct?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

almazing said:


> Thanks! Just to make absolutely sure, changing the travel also changes the axle to crown, correct?


Yes. If you've reduced the travel then the distance between the axle and the crown will reduce too by the same amount.

You can see that in this image. Image is not a Mezzer but shows what the axle crown measurement is on a fork.


----------



## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> Yes. If you've reduced the travel then the distance between the axle and the crown will reduce too by the same amount.
> 
> You can see that in this image. Image is not a Mezzer but shows what the axle crown measurement is on a fork.


Thanks. I wasn't sure if it just limited the travel(which in hindsight, makes no sense) whilst keeping the length of the A2C and stanchions as they were in 160 or 180.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

What’s the best way to keep the damper rod from rotating while you tighten the footnut? It starts spinning beyond hand tight


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Nm I’m a dingus. Use an 8mm hex key


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

I've got 5-6 rides in on the Mezzer and still working on tuning.. 170mm Mezzer, ~215lb rider.

Started with 62/91psi (spec for 200lb rider)
Rebound 5 clicks out
HSC 3 clicks out
LSC 4 clicks out
Feels ok off the top, but too much ramp up and mid stroke support. 
Harsh on bigger hits.
Rebound feels a little quick.
Compression feels overdamped, but hard to tell with the air spring out of whack.

Reduced IRT 5psi to increase linearity. 62/86psi 
Rebound 3 clicks out (front wheel still hops off ground doing push/release test.. interesting)
HSC 3 clicks out
LSC 4 clicks out
Feels a little less progressive but still plenty of support. 
Rebound a little less "pushy" in corners, though this could also be the air sping.
Will reduce compression damping for next ride.

Reduced IRT 1psi for the hell of it. 62/85psi 
Rebound 3 clicks out 
HSC open
LSC 8 clicks out
Still plenty supportive, feeling pretty good on my after work trails which are flowyer with some punchy rocky tech sections. Still leaving 15-20mm travel unused.

Was feeling ok with these settings until I tried it on my Sunday evening ride which is a bit chunkier and faster. See short video below for an example of this trail.






The fork while very supportive felt spikey and not very controlled/planted on the descents.. my old Lyrik was set up much better for this stuff. I also left around 30mm travel unused.

I'm thinking I may need to reduce the IRT pressure even more to get rid of the spikeyness, not sure.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

back off LSC and then try 50-55/90. Main spring has bigger impact on overal feeling. Also combined with IRT could create overly supportive harsh feeling. I bet your lyrik has hollow midstroke 

PS maybe your airpump is way off


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You don't carry a shock pump in your bag?



Ganderson said:


> So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.
> 
> Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

nikon255 said:


> back off LSC and then try 50-55/90. Main spring has bigger impact on overal feeling. Also combined with IRT could create overly supportive harsh feeling. I bet your lyrik has hollow midstroke
> 
> PS maybe your airpump is way off


I'll try it.. thanks. I never really noticed a problem with the midstroke on the Lyrik when I was using it, but yeah if I went back and tried it there probably isn't much there compared to the Mezzer.

Shock pump is pretty accurate when verified with shock wiz (+/- 1psi), but I've never checked it with a calibrated instrument.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> You don't carry a shock pump in your bag?


I've been using a fanny pack this summer (f'ing Texas heat), so nope... not on that ride.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

check for equalisation. Conntect pump and try to compress fork with hands. It should go with some force. Moreover when I face such a problem check for air migration into lowers with zip tie trick. I have one smoothed zip - thats very important. Sharp edges could cut dust seal. Before brush dustseal from dirt, take off spring, pull away dust lip and insert zip tie. If no tssss appeared its good. Its better than loosing lower footnut, cuz eventually no oil will eject.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

nikon255 said:


> check for equalisation. Conntect pump and try to compress fork with hands. It should go with some force. Moreover when I face such a problem check for air migration into lowers with zip tie trick. I have one smoothed zip - thats very important. Sharp edges could cut dust seal. Before brush dustseal from dirt, take off spring, pull away dust lip and insert zip tie. If no tssss appeared its good. Its better than loosing lower footnut, cuz eventually no oil will eject.


I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ganderson said:


> I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.


Thats good. Then experiment with main pressure for proper initual and mid stroke . After that correct irt if needed.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> I've got 5-6 rides in on the Mezzer and still working on tuning.. 170mm Mezzer, ~215lb rider.
> 
> Started with 62/91psi (spec for 200lb rider)
> Rebound 5 clicks out
> ...


Looks like a flowy trail with a few embedded rocks and step downs on the way back down. Is that about right? Hard to tell from a video. Is that you?
It doesn't look like the sort of trail you'd use 170mm of travel on, but I know video can be deceiving.

Start with spring rate, this post of mine has what you want: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541-post14285541.html#post14285541

A 100kg rider is about 50lb/in spring-rate which you can get with 60/100psi. 
You've already gone close to that. So go lower and see how it feels. Try 50/80. Keep going lower until it wallows, then go firmer until it's harsh and jiggly. Then shoot for the middle between those two.

Use this guide with a bounce test to baseline spring-rate, then rebound and compression: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide

Don't increase HSC until you run out of LSC range. Once you've got everything dialled later then you can revisit HSC.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.


I found the main spring pressures to be a bit on the low side by a few PSI, but the air pressure changes in the main chamber are pretty sensitive to even a few PSI it seems. As others have said, there is definitely a margin of a few PSI even for good pumps, possibly more for cheaper ones.

I weigh the same as you on a 160 front and run 75 in the main and 105-110 in the IRT, that gives me ~22% sag. That's 2psi higher in the main and 5 in the IRT than recommended. I fluctuate in the IRT and haven't settled on where I want it to be just yet, the 105 feels good but a bit wallowy sometimes.

I've ridden Emma Long before, it's fairly flat but with a lot of rock staircases, chunky sections, and babyheads. It looks like your footage cut out some of the bigger features. We have similar trails here and I'd have expected the Mezzer to do better than the Lyrik, it's definitely an improvement over the 36 GRIP2/Ribbon/Helm/etc when it comes to tracking especially. Our trails are steeper, though, and it's easier to carry speed without having to pedal or pump. You may find setting it up a bit more compliant than I did works better.

I'll also add that I have trouble using full travel. I bump against the HBO every so often, but barely progress into it beyond 30mm. I'm not sure if travel usage is really the best measure of the forks performance, though. The way I have it setup, it stands up to it's travel without dive but still tracks really well. When I dialed it back some on the spring side, it did dive a bit more and rode lower than I wanted. It didn't feel that much more compliant, but changing the IRT seemed to have a bigger effect on that than the main pressure did. Changing the main alone seemed to reduce the ride height more than I wanted.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Looks like a flowy trail with a few embedded rocks and step downs on the way back down. Is that about right? Hard to tell from a video. Is that you?
> It doesn't look like the sort of trail you'd use 170mm of travel on, but I know video can be deceiving.
> 
> Start with spring rate, this post of mine has what you want: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541-post14285541.html#post14285541
> ...


Thanks Dougal.. yeah that's me and 170mm is definitely overkill. That travel wasn't by necessity for the terrain around here but ended up being the sweet spot on this particular frame for BB height and head angle. Not so concerned with using full travel, but I do look at that as a symptom if the air spring isn't feeling right.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

KenDobson said:


> View attachment 1277931
> 
> View attachment 1277933
> 
> View attachment 1277935


Would be really nice to hear your thoughts on the mezzer paired up with the ext storia? What do you like, what not?


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

KenDobson said:


> Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.


I had a opposite experience, struggled for months with the ext storia (and still not fully satisfied, i think i'm going to sell it at this point) and with the mezzer i was happy since the first descent.
Anyway i wouldn't lose my sleep for not using all the travel, it depends on the trails you ride and how aggressively. For the bushing is very easy to check it by yourself imo than sending it here (i'm italian  ).
And i highly doubt someone has tuning procedure ready for a fork like the mezzer, at the moment.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davideb87 said:


> I had a opposite experience, struggled for months with the ext storia (and still not fully satisfied, i think i'm going to sell it at this point) and with the mezzer i was happy since the first descent.


Hoping my experience with the Mezzer is in line with yours. Mine has just turned up and once the wheels arrive next week my build will be complete. Looking forward to checking this fork out!


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

robmac48 said:


> Hoping my experience with the Mezzer is in line with yours. Mine has just turned up and once the wheels arrive next week my build will be complete. Looking forward to checking this fork out!


I have found the mezzer to be easy to setup and still if you setup it wrong is not unrideable, only thing i have noticed is that i needed at least 5 psi more than the pressures on the leg, for both main and IRT.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.


What settings were you running and how heavy are you?

I've softened (and shortened) my Mezzer settings for trail riding since the original downhill test rides. I haven't finished the fine-tuning, let alone delved into the damper yet.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davideb87 said:


> I have found the mezzer to be easy to setup and still if you setup it wrong is not unrideable, only thing i have noticed is that i needed at least 5 psi more than the pressures on the leg, for both main and IRT.


The pressures on the leg are starting points for being set at full extension. If you lower the travel, you are also lowering the air volume and pressures increase.

They are also based on average rider ability and trails. If you like to Huck or ride aggressively, you will be making changes


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Ganderson said:


> Reduced IRT 1psi for the hell of it. 62/85psi
> Rebound 3 clicks out
> HSC open
> LSC 8 clicks out
> ...


Tried 50/80psi 
HSC open
LSC 8 clicks out

Wow.. different fork altogether. Very supple and compliant, getting into wallowy territory support wise. No bottoming though.

55/80psi
Compliance still seems good, support is back. Using a bit more travel than before, a little too much. I'll try 55/85psi next.

- Tuneability definitely seems to be there with this fork, I'm seeing big differences with relatively small changes.

- As others have said, the main spring pressure seems to have a much greater effect on overall feel than the IRT pressure.

- The rebound circuit is noisy and seems to be a bit unrefined compared to my Lyrik. Hard to explain and maybe it's just the noise but there is something about it that seems cruder. Maybe it was the Rockshox dual stage "rapid recovery" curcuit that made it disappear more for me.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> Tried 50/80psi
> HSC open
> LSC 8 clicks out
> 
> ...


Manitou has always used shimmed rebound circuits, they just don't have a fancy name for it like "rapid recovery" because its basic tech that every fork and shock should have (blows my mind that they don't).

My rebound is silent from memory, its definitely not loud. I'm on vacation for a few days, so I can't check mine. It makes me wonder if you need a damper bleed. How loud is it?

I wouldn't worry about not using full travel. That's the HBO doing its job. Take a hard enough hit and you will bottom it out. Only time I have bottomed is when I over jumped to flat once. (Oops)

The whole "use full travel on every ride" theory is dumb anyway. People sacrifice good ride characteristics to use full travel. Leave the last 15-20mm for "oh s$#!" Moments and enjoy your suspension that doesn't wallow and blow through its travel just so you can see an o-ring pushed to the top of the stanchion.

Also, the Dorado air springs with IRT (Mezzer, Mattoc, Dorado) are very sensitive to pressure changes, especially in the IRT chamber. You seem to be in the fine tuning stage, so start making 2-3psi changes instead of 5. You might even get down to 1psi changes if you are sensitive enough.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

It’s quiet on compression but has a very pronounced “slurp” on rebound.

I know the oil spec.. what bleed kit will I need to do one of these?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ACC (Sep 1, 2008)

I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.

So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.

From a stiffness standpoint, it seems like the Lyrik (running with torque caps) is about as good as it gets, and the Mezzer would only present marginal gains there, if any.

So, I guess my question is -- is the compression and rebound damping in the stock Mezzer significantly better than charger 2.1 in the Lyrik Ultimate? If so, why? Seems like some folks in this thread are having some issues getting the Mezzer set up and that it may not be the holy grail it has been touted as. If the Mezzer will ultimately need tons of tinkering and/or custom tuning to deliver clearly superior performance, then I might as well stick with the platform I have and made the aftermarket upgrades and tuning. Is the Mezzer really that much better?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ACC said:


> I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.
> 
> So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.
> 
> ...


I think you should spend the money upgrading and tuning the lyrik. Then get frustrated with it after all that and buy the Mezzer.

I don't have any specific experience with the DSD runt or their custom tunes. But the Runt is a straight copy of other devices I have used (SD components DVC etc) and their rebound tuning scheme said enough.

To answer your specific questions:
1. Yes the Mezzer damping is significantly better than the Charger 2.1 and everything else out there. It acheives full support without harshness. The Charger 2.1 finally got rid of harshness, but offers no support. So people like yourself have to rely heavily on an air spring with way too much pressure in it.

2. Yes the Mezzer has more setup options than almost any other fork. It takes time to get them dialled. I am still fine tuning mine. But even then it's beyond every other stock fork.

The difference people are feeling is between getting beaten on other forks vs not getting beaten, having endless support and still having 20-30mm travel left on the same trails.

What's the aim again?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> - The rebound circuit is noisy and seems to be a bit unrefined compared to my Lyrik. Hard to explain and maybe it's just the noise but there is something about it that seems cruder. Maybe it was the Rockshox dual stage "rapid recovery" curcuit that made it disappear more for me.


That noise is the sound of oil going through shims. Sip, sip, sip.

If a damper doesn't make that noise, then the shims aren't doing much. But some oils amplify the noise more than others.

Rapid recovery was a bad joke. They finally ditched their silly preloaded rebound tunes for the Charger 2 and 2.1. Now they're using linear shimmed rebound. Just like my 23 year old 1996 Manitou EFC!


----------



## ACC (Sep 1, 2008)

Dougal said:


> I don't have any specific experience with the DSD runt or their custom tunes. But the Runt is a straight copy of other devices I have used (SD components DVC etc) and their rebound tuning scheme said enough.
> 
> To answer your specific questions:
> 1. Yes the Mezzer damping is significantly better than the Charger 2.1 and everything else out there. It acheives full support without harshness. The Charger 2.1 finally got rid of harshness, but offers no support. So people like yourself have to rely heavily on an air spring with way too much pressure in it.
> ...


You make a compelling pitch, haha! Yeah, I would prefer not to have to run high pressure plus tokens to avoid a harsh bottom out (have had several on the Lyrik) and to hold the fork up somewhat in its travel. Sounds like the set up time is worth it with the Mezzer and it is just a better platform than the other options.


----------



## MrFish (Oct 13, 2004)

ACC said:


> I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.
> 
> So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.
> 
> ...


You could try a Luftkappe first, relatively cheap to try and add a lot of mid stroke support, well it has on my 36 and I believe work the same for Lyrics


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

MrFish said:


> You could try a Luftkappe first, relatively cheap to try and add a lot of mid stroke support, well it has on my 36 and I believe work the same for Lyrics


New lyrik already has fairly large negative chamber so it doesn´t change much, Runt would improve it a lot more if you play with the setup long enough.


----------



## MrFish (Oct 13, 2004)

ghostbiker said:


> New lyrik already has fairly large negative chamber so it doesn´t change much, Runt would improve it a lot more if you play with the setup long enough.


Oh, wasn't aware of that change to 2020 Lyrik, thanks


----------



## BanjomanO (Apr 2, 2019)

I just put a Mezzer on my Jeffsy CF 27, and wow...combined with a DHX2 shock (both 160mm)....I can ride just about anything with serious enjoyment. Spent the last couple weeks in Pisgah, Bailey, and Beech...and this thing shreds all terrain. Climbing the same Pisgah descents has also gotten much quicker, which was my biggest concern.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.

I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike. 

The setting I am going to run tomorrow are


Air 52/85
LSC -6
Reb -5
HSC Fully Open

So far riding around the fork is already night and day difference to my last post which at that point I was pretty fed up. So here is to a new day. Also I am running the fork at 150mm on a 2019 carbon Stumpjumper EVO. Rear shock is back to the factory Fox shock.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I bought a Mezzer (44mm offset) for my new Hightower build and while I was waiting for a few parts to complete the build I thought I'd put the Mezzer on my Turbo Levo to see how it went.

Short version...blown away at how good the fork is out of the box.

The fork came at 180mm travel and I needed 160mm. First thing was to cut a slot in a spare cassette tool which took longer than actually changing the travel. The fork is very easy to work on, undo two nuts at the bottom (removed pressure btw), pull lowers keeping them level to save the oil, unscrew the air shaft with my new tool, fit spacers and refit it all. Job done.

The bike is about 25kg and I'm about 86kg. I put 66psi in the main and 97psi in the IRT. rebound 6 out and both HSC and LSC fully open.

The Levo comes stock with a 150mm travel 51mm offset Lyrik Select which is fine for medium trail riding but as soon as any high speed compressions happen things fall apart quite badly. It feels harsh and pings off line when it spikes and just doesn't recover quick enough over braking bumps etc. I'm also running max tokens to get enough progression to stop bottoming with between 105-110psi depending what I'm riding. I have an Avalanche damper coming for this fork but the Mezzer got here first...

Riding the mellow trails I didn't really notice the lower offset of the Mezzer, felt as normal apart from riding quite a bit higher at the front. Yes it's 10mm more travel but the Mezzer was sitting way higher in its stroke compared to the Lyrik. I did notice the rebound circuit noise but it didn't bother me, not loud but it is there. I quite like it lol. 

Got to my first downhill section and the trail drops straight into a janky rock garden that lasts about 100m with multiple line choices. Previously I needed to pick my line, control my speed and avoid certain parts. This time, within a very short difference I could feel this fork was massively different. Different enough that instead of checking speed and getting all tense waiting for the harshness I could get off the brakes, relax and let the fork do its thing. The stiffness and controlled damping shone thru here. The fork encouraged me to go so much faster and the only thing that slowed me was now the rear shock!

Normally I can pick what the fork needs pretty quickly in regards to adjustments but the Mezzer has been such a step up in performance compared to the Lyrik in this application that I wasn't even thinking about the fork as everything it was doing was ridiculously good and I was just riding the bike having fun (3 downhill KOM's on the one ride was an indication of the extra speed).

The steering on the Levo has never felt that good through rough terrain. The fork was swallowing rocks like I have never experienced before, staying high in its travel going into corners....almost felt like I had found a way to legally cheat lol 

More feedback to come after a few more rides but after one ride I'm stoked!


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

KenDobson said:


> Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.
> 
> I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.
> 
> ...


I am always amazed at how forks and shocks come from the factory. My Fox stuff, dry. My Pike, dry. My Mcleod, dry. I really don't get it. Now, I just assume stuff will be dry before I install.

Hopefully, this will fix your issue and give the permanence others seem to have.


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

To be fair, when the factories greased seals/soaked foam rings in oil, people would cry that their fork is leaking from new when it is just the lube from assembly


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

KenDobson said:


> Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. *First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them.* So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.
> 
> I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much how I found the insides of my Mezzer when I opened it to reduce the travel. I didn't go as far as opening up the damper side or the IRT piston to check the lube due to time but will be doing that later this week.

I'm 168lbs so am interested in hearing how you get on with your settings. I'm doing my maiden ride today so will see how it goes.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.
> 
> I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of pressure. I'm your weight and running about 35/55psi.

What pressure were you running in your F36 and Pike?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> That's a lot of pressure. I'm your weight and running about 35/55psi.
> 
> What pressure were you running in your F36 and Pike?


I never posted my set up. But I actually run higher pressures than Ken at a lower weight and a longer travel setting.

This is my base settings, I'm still fine tuning and my settings change for different trails.

52/83.5 @160mm travel
HSC 2 clicks out from closed
LSC 2 clicks out from closed (3 out when I'm slow and tired)
LSR 8 clicks out from closed

On most rides, I will use 140-145mm of travel. But I have smashed the rubber bumper twice on huge hits, so it will bottom

I've kept up with the thread, but haven't posted much because of lack of time. One thing I should note is that the Mezzer spring has the IRT volume reduced and negative spring volume increased over the Mattoc. Because of this, the pressure gap between the main and IRT will be smaller. A few people struggling with set ups might want to raise main pressure slightly and lower IRT. A big gap in pressure might be to progressive and feel harsh. A 20-30psi gap depending on riding style/type is what seems to be the range that most people are falling into.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I never posted my set up. But I actually run higher pressures than Ken at a lower weight and a longer travel setting.
> 
> This is my base settings, I'm still fine tuning and my settings change for different trails.
> 
> ...


Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.

I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.

Mattoc IRT pressures do not swap across to Mezzer.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.
> 
> I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
> I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.
> ...


Yeah, different trails and different riding styles I presume. A lot of suspension is preference as well. I'm really surprised by how stiff I can run the spring, AND close the damper, AND still have a supple fork. Everytime I ride I am blown away by how good this thing is. The Mara pairs perfect with it as well.

My IRT comment wasn't aimed at you, was just a general comment based on what people with so called "spikey" forks are saying. 40psi pressure gaps don't work on the Mezzer like they do on the Mattoc.

You and I both know the damper will not spike.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Update after taking it apart and lubing all the O-rings and wipers etc the fork has turned around pretty well. I think I might have used to much oil in each leg at the moment. I put 20ml of supergliss in each leg. With out a service manual I just went off what I read on this thread. Also I did get two big spikes and felt it in my wrist the fork still only used 115mm of the 150mm travel it supposed to have. On the flip side the small bump was good and the mid support also very good. I ran it with the settings recommended from Dave.

52/85
LSC -6
HSC Open
REB -5

I think I will try adjusting the amount of supergliss in the legs if someone tells me the proper ML or CC.
Reduce the air pressure to 52/72 and see if this helps get more travel but retain the low speed supple and mid stroke support.

Till tomorrows ride.

Edit Update - Just called the future AKA New Zealand and talked to Dougal. Everything I seem to be doing is right, however Im going to try 35/55 pressures tomorrow. The HBO circuit seems to be to strong for me as well as a few others. But anyways just want to say Thanks to Dougal and also Dave for there help. I wish Manitou or Hayes would be as helpful with there experience.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

NSMB article popped up... 
https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> NSMB article popped up...
> https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/


LOL was just going to post that... beat me to it..
Definitely will be purchasing one next year. While my Lyrik is much better after removal of the MRP Ramp Control (believe something was wrong with it) and a couple weeks with a ShockWiz on it, it still a bit underwhelming. So will commence squirreling away money for the inevitable purchase of a Mezzer 44mm. Best part though is that the chrome graphics will match my Smash Chrome graphics!!


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Update, Finally got to experience this fork to 95% of what is capable of! With the pressure set lower 35/55 on the 150mm of travel setting for my 165lbs it worked perfectly. HSC was full Open or all the way turned counter clockwise, LSC was set -6 from full closed so otherwise turned counter clockwise 6 clicks. The REB was set in the middle. I was able to use 130mm of travel, no wallowing, plenty of mid support plus the low speed was smooth and tracked very well. So I could encourage you enough to pull the IRT out and lub the O Rings, the Main Air Chamber and lube them as well, plus make sure you have the proper amount of oil in the fork legs.

The one thing I can find a problem with is the compression side of this valving seems to be on the stiff side for my weight. So if I could soften it alittle I would be set. Maybe Dave Rulezman's new RRT upgrade could make this fork killer. For me this is hovering around the best fork I have ever used.

So there it is.

Thank you to everyone on this thread that helped gain knowledge and special thanks to Dougal for talking my calls and Dave Rulezman for the quick email reply's.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

robmac48 said:


> I have an Avalanche damper coming for this fork but the Mezzer got here first...


Can you let us know how they compare? I've got a couple avy lyriks. Wondering how the mezzer feels different.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

gregnash said:


> Definitely will be purchasing one next year.


By that time we'll have the new 38 and Totem and maybe even a new DVO and the process of indecision will start again, haha


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

@Dougal

My Mezzer is on its way to my bike  just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?

Rebound speed : when I got it right somewhere in this thread, the mezzer in contrast to the mattoc, which likes to be ridden with fairly open lsr, should be ridden rather with half closed lsr, so that it tends to feel a bit slow in the car park test, correct?

Gab maximum between main and irt 30 percent or 30 psi?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

does mezzer have preloaded rebound stack? I feel like mattoc rebound fits me better.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> @Dougal
> 
> My Mezzer is on its way to my bike  just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?
> 
> ...


This is as simple as I can make it:

Top IRT pressure (psi) = rider weight (plus gear) in kg
Bottom pos/neg pressure (psi) = 60% of the above.

So a 100kg rider would be 100/60psi

These are very different results to Manitou's own recommendations. Basically if you're riding harder on smoother terrain then you'll closer to the higher Manitou pressures. If you're on rocks or roots you'll be closer to mine.

@nikon255 I don't think so, because they never have before, but I haven't checked yet.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Speaking of lube..

I ordered a bottle of semi bath (Hayes 85-0023) and got this:










I thought the bath oil was a motorex 5w/40 product?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> Speaking of lube..
> 
> I ordered a bottle of semi bath (Hayes 85-0023) and got this:
> 
> ...


That's the blue damper oil and that's the correct p/n for that bottle. But the wrong description.

Semi-bath is 85-0022


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Dougal would you use this 85-0022 if you service the damper and then Supergliss as the oil bath in each leg?

Also do you have the procedure to service the valving/bladder side?

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Dougal would you use this 85-0022 if you service the damper and then Supergliss as the oil bath in each leg?
> 
> Also do you have the procedure to service the valving/bladder side?
> 
> Thanks


85-0022 is Motorex Semi-Bath 5W40 for the lower legs
85-0023 is Maxima 5wt for the damper.

I use Motorex 2.5wt for most dampers, because I buy it by the drum and Shockcraft Hot Oil Green or Pink for higher stress applications.
But the Maxima works fine and is the factory fill.

I don't have a proceedure to strip/rebuild the damper cartridge. Bleeding however is easy. It uses the same M5 fittings as Shimano mineral oil brakes and Reverb dropper posts.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> That's the blue damper oil and that's the correct p/n for that bottle. But the wrong description.
> 
> Semi-bath is 85-0022


Thanks man.. universal cycles as well as a bunch of other online sources have this stuff listed as semi-bath. Odd.

I'll just use up the Fox 20wt gold I've got I suppose, should be fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.
> 
> I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
> I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.
> ...


Thank you. 
But you forgot my other questions. Would be useful to know the other answers for troubleshooting


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Im 160lbs and was bottoming 40/80psi 180mm mezzer easily. Mattoc has stronger bottom resistance. 55/90 felt good on parking lot but was harsh on trail. I guess too high irt pressure. According to posts above gonna reduce split and test again. How do I know if pressure should be rised or compression added?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> Im 160lbs and was bottoming 40/80psi 180mm mezzer easily. Mattoc has stronger bottom resistance. 55/90 felt good on parking lot but was harsh on trail. I guess too high irt pressure. According to posts above gonna reduce split and test again. How do I know if pressure should be rised or compression added?


I've got more time to answer now.
55/90 is way too high for 160lb rider. Try 40/80 or 35/55 and then in between.

The Mezzer has bigger pistons than the Mattoc, so same pressure gives more spring force.

Once you have the spring-rate right by a frequency test (bounce on the bike, front and rear should respond evenly and be ridable with no rebound damping).
Then add damping.
Go LSC first, go full closed on that before adding HSC.

Then fine-tune once you have thobse bracketed.



bansaiman said:


> @Dougal
> 
> My Mezzer is on its way to my bike  just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?
> 
> ...


Best start point is IRT about 1.5x main pressure and set frequency. You can increase IRT pressure from there but it shortens the mid-stroke by making the ramp up sooner and bigger.
So rocks and roots can start to kick you at mid-travel if IRT pressure is too high compared to main.

Rebound I was running about 6 clicks from closed. It feels like a different shape rebound damping curve to the Mattoc but I haven't investigated further yet.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I've got more time to answer now.
> 55/90 is way too high for 160lb rider. Try 40/80 or 35/55 and then in between.
> 
> The Mezzer has bigger pistons than the Mattoc, so same pressure gives more spring force.
> ...


To be honest 40/80 is way too soft. Bottoms too often. HBO/bumper is weaker than mattoc. Thats my main problem. I rode 55/90 with no rebound at all, cuz only then its supple on small bumps. Only drops to flat kicked back and during front wheel rising top out occured. Moreover I can make 30-40km of pure descending in bikepark bumps, dh and fr tracks so small bump compliance is important. I have 3 airpumps, all shows the same pressures. Im gonna leave main pressure like this, cuz it was evaluated in bouncing test. I felt like irt could be reduced. Other way is to drop it to 40/80 which gives almost 30% sag, close lsc and test. I feel a little lost with setting mezzer to my liking.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> To be honest 40/80 is way too soft. Bottoms too often. HBO/bumper is weaker than mattoc. Thats my main problem. I rode 55/90 with no rebound at all, cuz only then its supple on small bumps. Only drops to flat kicked back and during front wheel rising top out occured. Moreover I can make 30-40km of pure descending in bikepark bumps, dh and fr tracks so small bump compliance is important. I have 3 airpumps, all shows the same pressures. Im gonna leave main pressure like this, cuz it was evaluated in bouncing test. I felt like irt could be reduced. Other way is to drop it to 40/80 which gives almost 30% sag, close lsc and test. I feel a little lost with setting mezzer to my liking.


I found 40/80 to be fine on my first DH ride but too firm for trail. Bring in more compression damping for bottom-out control.

It's not a Lyrik, you don't need or want the air-spring to do all the big hit work!


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I found 40/80 to be fine on my first DH ride but too firm for trail. Bring in more compression damping for bottom-out control.
> 
> It's not a Lyrik, you don't need or want the air-spring to do all the big hit work!


I used to leave compression open. Gonna give it a try. Are you 160lbs? I misscalculated my weight. Im 165lbs. What are your exact settings for bike park days with big features?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

nikon255 said:


> I used to leave compression open. Gonna give it a try. Are you 160lbs? I misscalculated my weight. Im 165lbs. What are your exact settings for bike park days with big features?


I'm 170 lbs and i run 55/85 psi, 2 hsc from open, 5 lsc from open. Forgot rebound.

I find it the very comfortable even on bike park days

I started with 60/90 and still was good, but i like it more with the latest settings


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

davideb87 said:


> I'm 170 lbs and i run 55/85 psi, 2 hsc from open, 5 lsc from open. Forgot rebound.
> 
> I find it the very comfortable even on bike park days
> 
> I started with 60/90 and still was good, but i like it more with the latest settings


Thanks. 50/80 should be good starting point.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.
> 
> The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.
> 
> ...


Have the fork reinstalled on a new frame. 64/102 pressure. I have to VERY lightly push the bars to feel a very slight difference between full closed and full open. Set up a 5" square edge and hit it @15mph....zero difference in feel. emptied IRT. Dropped main to 35. same result open and closed.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

tdc_worm said:


> Have the fork reinstalled on a new frame. 64/102 pressure. I have to VERY lightly push the bars to feel a very slight difference between full closed and full open. Set up a 5" square edge and hit it @15mph....zero difference in feel. emptied IRT. Dropped main to 35. same result open and closed.


what closed? HSC, LSC or both???


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Both. Both fully closed. Both fully opened. Both Opposite one another.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> Thanks. 50/80 should be good starting point.


Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable


Did you try silly soft yet?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Did you try silly soft yet?


Going that direction tomorrow. My Mara spring settings wouldn't have paired well with it today, I was looking to achieve good balance for a "aggressive" set up (was riding alone, so pace was faster). I'll make the changes tonight to achieve balance with a softer spring.


----------



## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Blatant said:


> I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.
> 
> I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


I dont think its any harder to set up than any other fork with high and low speed compression. The spring is slightly more complicated, but its the only air spring that lets you dial in mid stroke support without compromising beginning or ending stroke. That small amount of effort is worth the few rides it takes to get it dialed in.


----------



## MrFish (Oct 13, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable


Wow, 2psi makes that much difference!, so a change in temperature from early morning ride to afternoon ride would have it feeling completely different?
In fact a decent run from top to bottom of a challenging trail would see that amount of psi change with the heat build up. I can see a 7psi change in my rear shock from top to bottom of a park lap.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Try a coil, and get your damper tuned.



Blatant said:


> I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.
> 
> I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> 50/80


How many kilos do you weigh ready for riding?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> 85-0022 is Motorex Semi-Bath 5W40 for the lower legs
> 85-0023 is Maxima 5wt for the damper.
> 
> I use Motorex 2.5wt for most dampers, because I buy it by the drum and Shockcraft Hot Oil Green or Pink for higher stress applications.
> ...


DOUGAL, when I change travel does the washer, that sits directly beneath the air piston in 180mm configuration definitely need to be below the spacers, thus from bottom to top, washer, travelspacer airpiston? Or can it be travelspacer, washer, airpiston, too? Because I happened to do it the latter way and just do not want to open it up again. Or will this result in any damage or disadvantage?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

MrFish said:


> Wow, 2psi makes that much difference!, so a change in temperature from early morning ride to afternoon ride would have it feeling completely different?
> In fact a decent run from top to bottom of a challenging trail would see that amount of psi change with the heat build up. I can see a 7psi change in my rear shock from top to bottom of a park lap.


Air volume is much larger, so I don't think you will see much pressure change from temperature changes or friction. I haven't noticed any mid ride changes in feel


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Blatant said:


> I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.
> 
> I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


That's reasonable.

I've only got 2 rides on mine, but i basically just set it to the recommendations in this chart and was pretty delighted with the results. I could definitely just stop now. But the adjustments don't turn it shitty, so it's a pleasure to tweak it a bit and see if i can make it better. I doubt ill mess with the adjustments once i'm done with them.


----------



## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

https://www.mtb-mag.com/en/tested-manitou-mezzer-pro/


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I'd like to read review of mezzer done by bike park warrior. Its a dam 37mm chasis fork. Not trail noodle. Otherwise every review include the same "not harsh, compliant, hard to bottom, stiff". Such a bland review.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Altavoz said:


> https://www.mtb-mag.com/en/tested-manitou-mezzer-pro/


so i am not the only one whom finds the that the HSC/LSC adjustments have little impact. i've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane....


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

tdc_worm said:


> so i am not the only one whom finds the that the HSC/LSC adjustments have little impact. i've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane....


Every manitou fork i've ever had has been like that. Some of the adjustments feel like they don't do anything unless you're on the trail. I don't really see it as a bad thing, you just can't assume you're gonna run half the adjusters fully open.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I can say that LSC and HSC makes clear difference on trail. Even at home I could feel the difference.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

nikon255 said:


> I'd like to read review of mezzer done by bike park warrior. Its a dam 37mm chasis fork. Not trail noodle. Otherwise every review include the same "not harsh, compliant, hard to bottom, stiff". Such a bland review.


Not sure I would call myself a park rat, but i have two rides on mine at Trestle and Keystone. Previous setup was ACS3 F36 w Push Tune, 160mm, Evil Wreckoning. This go round was Mezzer 180mm, Pole Stamina. not exactly apples to apples but the Mezzer gave up nothing in to my freshly modded F36 in the park. Plenty stiff and precise for my 215lbs. With suggested settings, I only found the bottom once....the o ring informed me, nothing was transmitted to the hands.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

scottzg said:


> Every manitou fork i've ever had has been like that. Some of the adjustments feel like they don't do anything unless you're on the trail. I don't really see it as a bad thing, you just can't assume you're gonna run half the adjusters fully open.


my experience is not the same. and its also not based of bouncing on the bike in my kitchen. its based off of back to back park runs and days. i've never run my compression fully open. to do so would allow you too get deep in the travel quicker than desirable...which would put you in the endstroke of the damping and the ramp up of the air spring. you'd be supple off the top and then immediately firm. i like my fork to stay high in the travel on small stuff and not dive right into that firm ramp up...i've always preferred firmer settings w/ appropriate support from the spring. When I sent my ACS3 F36 and 11.6 in for a tune up, unsolicited, Push actually commented that my settings were firmer then most, but appropriate.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Blatant said:


> I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.
> 
> I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


Some people like to tinker with their settings, you'll find similar discussions on almost every other thread for every other fork, including the Lyrik RC2. There is nothing more complicated on the Mezzer than any other fork. The recommended settings are really close and if you don't want to make a bunch of tinkering adjustments, then you'd probably be happy with that. It gives you the option to adjust for a more precise feel if you want to, though.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

My Mezzer has been feeling a bit sticky/notchy so I compared it to my Lyrik side by side and the Lyrik is indeed much smoother moving through its travel.

I decided to tear into it to check the bath oil and add a travel spacer.

The good:
-There seemed to be plenty of bath oil. I didn't measure the volume but both legs appeared to have been filled appropriately.

-After using and servicing Rockshox forks for years, this thing was a JOY to work on. I now understand why folks praise the serviceability of Manitou forks.

The bad:
-Nothing was tightened very well from the factory. The IRT cap and air spring retainer were damn near hand tight

-There was very little grease on the IRT or air spring pistons.

-The dust seals were bone dry. Not under lubricated, I'm talking brand new out of the package never touched by grease DRY.

-At first I thought the foam rings were saturated with oil because of their dark color (used to RS white foam). Upon closer inspection I realized they were also brand new out of package dry. On the plus side, they are made of a firmer more dense foam than RS uses so they were very easy to remove and install after soaking without removing the seals.

Definitely feels smoother now after properly lubing everything.. we'll see how she performs.

Dry seals and foam rings









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blatant said:


> I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.
> 
> I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.


On a Lyrik the compression adjusters do basically nothing, so all you can do is set air pressure, set rebound and ride.

You can do that on the Mezzer too and it's better like that than a Lyrik. But there's a lot more to tweak if you want to on the Mezzer and there are benefits to doing so.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> DOUGAL, when I change travel does the washer, that sits directly beneath the air piston in 180mm configuration definitely need to be below the spacers, thus from bottom to top, washer, travelspacer airpiston? Or can it be travelspacer, washer, airpiston, too? Because I happened to do it the latter way and just do not want to open it up again. Or will this result in any damage or disadvantage?


On the Mattoc the washer was needed under the spacer as the top-out bumper didn't have full support from the clip-in spacers. So the bumper gets pushed into an awkward place and you get more stroke than you had the fork set at.

On the Mezzer it probably won't matter. The two piece spacers are pretty flat.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ganderson said:


> My Mezzer has been feeling a bit sticky/notchy so I compared it to my Lyrik side by side and the Lyrik is indeed much smoother moving through its travel.
> 
> I decided to tear into it to check the bath oil and add a travel spacer.
> 
> ...


My experience was similar but a it better.

A bit oil in the lowers.

The foam rings were properly soaked in oil. If you squeezed them a little you would see the oil come out

But the dust wipers where dry as well

Main air spring was greased.

The irt piston more from above and underneath but the worker did not make sure that the ring is greased all around.

Summary:

It is indeed better to open the fork up one time before first use.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Did someone already open up the damper and could show pictures of the comp ression and rebound piston?

I would be really interested to compare it to some pistons of different tuners


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> My experience was similar but a it better.
> 
> A bit oil in the lowers.
> 
> ...


Similar experience with mine. Wipers completely dry, piston seals barely had grease, IRT piston shaft was bone dray so the piston head had a lot of drag and was sticky. IRT cap was tight though.

I did not open the damper side as that was sliding freely and didn't seem to have any stiction so left it.

To be fair, I think you should open any new fork from any manufacturer and check the grease and oil as it seems fairly common for them to come a little dry from the factory. Fortunately the Mezzer is real easy to work on.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Test ride on Thursday when it stays dry on my home trails. Otherwise Sunday in bikepark to have a dial in session


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Test ride on Thursday when it stays dry on my home trails. Otherwise Sunday in bikepark to have a dial in session


That's hot!


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> I dont think its any harder to set up than any other fork with high and low speed compression. The spring is slightly more complicated, but its the only air spring that lets you dial in mid stroke support without compromising beginning or ending stroke. That small amount of effort is worth the few rides it takes to get it dialed in.


To be fair,

HI/LO Comp already is a struggle that many complain about. It's probably why most forks went to LSC/REB only for many years.

That second air spring isn't really just one extra adjustment either, it effectively doubles the adjustments as air spring and damping has to work together. Change one and you very well might have to change the other to balance everything back out.

I do agree though, if you are willing to put in the effort, that third air chamber does seem to be worth the hassle.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> To be fair,
> 
> HI/LO Comp already is a struggle that many complain about. It's probably why most forks went to LSC/REB only for many years.
> 
> ...


A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.

IRT is complicated. But I have simple rules for setting that up too.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Update on a few changes I made. Dropped the pressures slightly, now running 88psi in the IRT(I'm 88kgs) and 53psi in the main LSC -1 from fully closed and rebound -6 from fully closed. 

Still very supportive and now even more active (I was running 97/66psi). With the LSC almost closed it gave the support in g-outs and braking but the biggest thing I noticed today was how it handled repeated high speed hits even better. Tracking was sensational before but with these changes it got even better. 

I'll continue to test and adjust...loving it!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

robmac48 said:


> Update on a few changes I made. Dropped the pressures slightly, now running 88psi in the IRT(I'm 88kgs) and 53psi in the main LSC -1 from fully closed and rebound -6 from fully closed.
> 
> Still very supportive and now even more active (I was running 97/66psi). With the LSC almost closed it gave the support in g-outs and braking but the biggest thing I noticed today was how it handled repeated high speed hits even better. Tracking was sensational before but with these changes it got even better.
> 
> I'll continue to test and adjust...loving it!


Funny. I almost weigh the same and that are the pressures I landed on by sag and Dougal's Formula in my garage and by rolling on the street. Compression is open in the moment, lsr 4 from open, thus +4 Now I am really keen to test the results on the first ride.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Motorex Racing Fork Oil to the Supergliss? I'm curious how they compare in performance, since they seem a bit more readily available.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)




----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

davideb87 said:


>


Well it looks like I'll be opening my fork up again. I didn't move the washer down below the spacer. In fact I don't even remember seeing one. My bump stop was stuck so hard to the top I needed to give it a real tug to free it.

I hope David does a damper side strip down and how to bleed it. That would pretty much cover everything there is to know about servicing the fork.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> Well it looks like I'll be opening my fork up again. I didn't move the washer down below the spacer. In fact I don't even remember seeing one. My bump stop was stuck so hard to the top I needed to give it a real tug to free it.
> 
> I hope David does a damper side strip down and how to bleed it. That would pretty much cover everything there is to know about servicing the fork.


I don't remember any washer and my piston was black, on the video is white. Mine is working good. Actually i have a mattoc spacers on it, mezzer one wasn't available at that time


----------



## shmity (Oct 6, 2015)

Adodero said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare the Motorex Racing Fork Oil to the Supergliss? I'm curious how they compare in performance, since they seem a bit more readily available.


The racing fork oil is a damper fluid, the supergliss is a semi bath fluid. Not interchangeable.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

shmity said:


> The racing fork oil is a damper fluid, the supergliss is a semi bath fluid. Not interchangeable.


Oof yea, you are right, I missed that.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Good lord that is stupid simple compared to my RS Lyrik. Commence squirreling away pennies for next season!


----------



## shmity (Oct 6, 2015)

Adodero said:


> Oof yea, you are right, I missed that.


Im pretty sure Dougal or Mullen put some alternatives to the supergliss bath oil in the mattoc thread, so there are definitely other options.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

motorex power synt 4t 5w40


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Can anyone explain or show how to rebuild or change the oil in the Damper. I would like to change the oil in my damper and confirm its right. 

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Can anyone explain or show how to rebuild or change the oil in the Damper. I would like to change the oil in my damper and confirm its right.
> 
> Thanks


Simple way. Undo the bleeder grub screw down by the shaft end. Squeeze and release the bladder to pump the old oil out.

Attach a bleed syringe full of oil, arrange the damper so the bleed port is up and pump the syringe to push oil into the damper and suck air out. Repeat until you're happy and remove the syringe to cap the hole when the bladder is relaxed at full shaft extension.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

From factory bladder at full extension is a little bit squezzed.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal, do you know how long it typically is before Manitou get the service manual out for a new fork? Wondering when we can expect to see one on their site.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

nikon255 said:


> From factory bladder at full extension is a little bit squezzed.


Yes they are, but they can vent overfill so it's not a problem. I suspect the factory bleed them with the shaft at a specific extension length.



trail-blazer said:


> Dougal, do you know how long it typically is before Manitou get the service manual out for a new fork? Wondering when we can expect to see one on their site.


Variable. Sometimes they release a group manual, sometimes it's one specific.

Basic service on the Mezzer is actually less complicated than tuning it. Which is pretty funny.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Yes they are, but they can vent overfill so it's not a problem. I suspect the factory bleed them with the shaft at a specific extension length.
> 
> Variable. Sometimes they release a group manual, sometimes it's one specific.
> 
> Basic service on the Mezzer is actually less complicated than tuning it. Which is pretty funny.


Help! 
As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore. 
Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

bansaiman said:


> Help!
> As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore.
> Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much


So you are tightening the nuts to 35in/lb and the valve is spinning? Sounds like the nut might be under tightened.

I'd remove the IRT piston and use a non metallic tool to put pressure on the top of the air piston to prevent the spinning just enough to get the cap off.. then tighten the nut a little more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Help!
> As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore.
> Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much


You hold the shafts (8mm allen damper side, 8mm socket air side) and use a box wrench to tighten the nuts to hold the lowers on.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Dougal said:


> A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.


Does this recommendation apply to all forks or just the Mezzer?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mullen119 said:


> You hold the shafts (8mm allen damper side, 6mm socket air side) and use a box wrench to tighten the nuts to hold the lowers on.


No when putting on the nut, it spun, so that I could probably not apply enough force to tighten it. Now the aircap sits to tight in relation to the nut. Both start to spin when 8 want to pull the air cap off. But as the threads are different I won't work. The thread of the aircap is finer. Thus they block each other.i have only a gap of 1 mm on which I could fix the air rod to prevent it from moving while the aircap thread of


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> No when putting on the nut, it spun, so that I could probably not apply enough force to tighten it. Now the aircap sits to tight in relation to the nut. Both start to spin when 8 want to pull the air cap off. But as the threads are different I won't work. The thread of the aircap is finer. Thus they block each other.i have only a gap of 1 mm on which I could fix the air rod to prevent it from moving while the aircap thread of


That's what I'm saying. The nut spun because you didn't told the shaft with a 8mm socket as you tightened it. Now its loose and spins. You have to hold the shafts as you tighten the foot nuts.

You can try to compress the fork to build air pressure to hold the air piston/shaft still. They may help you remove the air cap. Once you remove it, properly tighten the foot nuts.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

So i've ridden the fork 6 times now, and finally have the settings dialed to my liking. I'm 185lbs running 35psi main and 75psi irt. 1 click of lsc, 2 clicks of hsc and 6 clicks of rebound, all from open. Works like magic. Matches the rear coil for plushness, stays perfectly planted and erases chunky rock sections. ****ing thrilled.

Opened the air spring up to check how greased the pistons and seals were. There was no grease on the seals but the foam rings were oiled just fine. Both the irt and main air piston were greased nicely. After greasing the seals and putting it all back together it is beyond smooth and plush. A major difference even though it felt great out of the box as well.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

skulltractor said:


> So i've ridden the fork 6 times now, and finally have the settings dialed to my liking. I'm 185lbs running 35psi main and 75psi irt. 1 click of lsc, 2 clicks of hsc and 6 clicks of rebound, all from open. Works like magic. Matches the rear coil for plushness, stays perfectly planted and erases chunky rock sections. ****ing thrilled.
> 
> Opened the air spring up to check how greased the pistons and seals were. There was no grease on the seals but the foam rings were oiled just fine. Both the irt and main air piston were greased nicely. After greasing the seals and putting it all back together it is beyond smooth and plush. A major difference even though it felt great out of the box as well.


looking at your pressure I guess you dont jump big features


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

anybody checked if rebound is preloaded?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.


OK, so this is the first fork I've had with a HSC adjustment. The above statement makes no sense to my understanding of how I thought the two circuits work. If LSC and HSC refer to the shaft speeds of the fork then why would you start adding HSC when you've closed LSC? How does HSC help with increasing LSC if it's supposed to operate at high shaft speed and not low shaft speed? If you've maxed out the LSC and need more wouldn't you go back and look at adding more air to the spring or revalving the LSC as a last resort?

Also, another question. If having the HSC open helps with absorbing high speed square edge type hits, when would you want to add HSC? Why would you want to add/close HSC to firm/harden up the hits?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

So I went for my second ride on this fork. It was my first proper opportunity to spend time playing with the adjustments. On the day I was 167lbs in geared up.

My trail was relatively flat and pedally with a few short punchy climbs and rooty / rocky descents with a few small 2' drops to flat.

I started out with 40/50 which gave me 20% sag and found it very plush but was riding in the middle of the travel so increased IRT to 55 which improved things but was still a little deeper in the travel than I wanted.

So far I settled on 40/56, HSC open, LSC 5 from closed, rebound 6 From closed. It felt pretty good but I think I can improve the tracking of the ground over the roots at high speed. It felt like the front wheel was skipping (being kicked up) over the roots rather than tracking over them. Also, I know when I go hit bigger features I'm going to have to adjust for that but I guess this is a decent starting point. My travel o-ring settled at around 35mm from the top.

One thing this fork suddenly did highlight was that my rear was now not balanced and was feeling harsh so I need to look at that again.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> OK, so this is the first fork I've had with a HSC adjustment. The above statement makes no sense to my understanding of how I thought the two circuits work. If LSC and HSC refer to the shaft speeds of the fork then why would you start adding HSC when you've closed LSC? How does HSC help with increasing LSC if it's supposed to operate at high shaft speed and not low shaft speed? If you've maxed out the LSC and need more wouldn't you go back and look at adding more air to the spring or revalving the LSC as a last resort?
> 
> Also, another question. If having the HSC open helps with absorbing high speed square edge type hits, when would you want to add HSC? Why would you want to add/close HSC to firm/harden up the hits?


HSC gives you LSC threshold, if you don´t have enough HSC you won´t be able to get any significant amount of LSC damping because HSC circuit will open too easily/early. If you add preload to shimstack/poppet valve it holds HS circuit closed for longer before pressure buildup in the damper opens it, thus allows more LSC damping till HS circuit takes over. Pretty simple I think.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

ghostbiker said:


> HSC gives you LSC threshold, if you don´t have enough HSC you won´t be able to get any significant amount of LSC damping because HSC circuit will open too easily/early. If you add preload to shimstack/poppet valve it holds HS circuit closed for longer before pressure buildup in the damper opens it, thus allows more LSC damping till HS circuit takes over. Pretty simple I think.


Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.

So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.

So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.
> 
> So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.
> 
> So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.


You got it, whether you need to back out LSC depends on how much each click of HSC changes and if it could potentially become detrimental for square edged hits.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

@nikon255 The main psi does seem low compared to what others here are running, but my bike has a lot of travel so the increased sag balances well with the rear shock. It ramps up a lot past the sag point though, so it doesnt blow through the travel even on bigger jumps or drops. I pretty much only ride Ucsc, so its not exactly a bike park, but i like to get rowdy and push the bike as hard as i can.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

PSA---

I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.

i hopped on the bike and headed for the lift and noticed that the fork stanchions seemed significantly short of the 180mm the fork was set at. I grabbed the bars and pushed down on the arch, and discovered that fork was sucked down 40-50mm. 

went to pits and checked main pressure, and all was normal. but the fork stayed sucked down in the stroke, which indicates an imbalance in the main/negative chamber pressure. i bled the main all the way to zero, re-pressurized, same issue. to sum it up, it seems that when the pump is hooked up, if any pressure is applied to the bars, then the main air will be forced into the negative chamber as the fork collapses through its travel. simply bleeding the main, does not release that excess that is now trapped in the negative.

the fix (there may be others):

attach the HP pump. depress the the bleed button on the pump. at the same time, have another person press on the arch and pull up on the bars to full extend the fork manually. this equalized (to the best i could tell) the main and the negative.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.
> 
> So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.
> 
> So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.


Yes.

For initial tuning bring in LSC until it's enough, if you run out of LSC then add HSC. Then revisit LSC for fine-tuning later to stop it feeling dead.



tdc_worm said:


> PSA---
> 
> I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.
> 
> ...


That's the hidden travel adjust feature. All you need to do is check the fork is pulled to full travel before removing the pump.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

tdc_worm said:


> PSA---
> 
> I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.
> 
> ...


All you have to do is attach the pump a pull on the handlebars, pump is connecting pos/neg chamber and it will be equalised at any height you set it at by pulling/ pushing bars. And yes it won´t read any differently, the overall air volume is not changing, just where the volume is (either in pos or neg chamber)


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.

Here is what is happening:

- Fill IRT to 92psi, Air spring to 66psi
- Ride bike
- Connect pump to air spring, pump reads 69-70psi, that WITH the air preload of the shock pump so actual pressure is higher.
- IRT pressure has dropped ~10-12psi

I would assume the seal(s) on the IRT assembly are defective and asked Manitou if they could just send me the parts, but they are telling me I have to sent the fork in... bummer.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Ganderson said:


> It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.
> 
> Here is what is happening:
> 
> ...


Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.

Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ganderson said:


> It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.
> 
> Here is what is happening:
> 
> ...


Probably just need some grease


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

nmxtrdr said:


> Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.
> 
> Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.


Mine has been consistent and I check it every so often, sounds like there is a bad seal somewhere.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

nmxtrdr said:


> Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.
> 
> Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.


I'd think Manitou have the IRT system design down pretty well by now so hopefully it's a fluke. I'm going to pull it out tonight and give it a thorough inspection before shipping my fork in.

Still, another set of seals in a critical area is a consideration vs the simplicity of more traditional volume reducing tokens.

I don't think I've yet experienced this fork at it's actual potential.

On the bright side, it does look great now that I've removed all stickers except the vertical "Manitou" on the front.. much better.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

davideb87 said:


> Probably just need some grease


Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.

I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.
> 
> I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.


If it's dry it may have worn the o-ring already. I think it's a -110 size.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.
> 
> I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.


Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.

If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

anybody had a chance to compare the mezzer with a diaz runted lyrik /36


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I will be able to compare it to a runt Lyrik with FAST Damper kit. But it will take a few weeks. I do not have much time in the moment and it is raining cats and dogs for a few days already. Especially as both forks have to be setup correctly with the 2 air pressures


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.
> 
> If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.


They also don't write to grease it on aftermarket IRT instruction manual, i had the luck to read it here.
They just say to put grease on the piston oring.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> If it's dry it may have worn the o-ring already. I think it's a -110 size.





mullen119 said:


> Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.
> 
> If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.


I pulled it apart last night, and yes the IRT shaft and o-ring were squeaky dry. I'll change out the o-rings, properly lube and hope that fixes the problem.

O-Ring sizes appear to be:
Outer: -122
Inner: -110

Another possible leak point would be the seal at the shaft bolt but this seems less likely. FYI.. if you are going to disassemble the IRT to replace the inner seal I recommend using a set of 10mm shaft clamps in your vise as the end bolt on mine was loctited and pretty tight.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

pinkbike review is up

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

scottzg said:


> pinkbike review is up
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html


I guess Dougal's advice would've been lower the main chamber pressure back a bit again and close down the HSC/LSC more?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

The result is really not really good.
I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?


----------



## cxfahrer (Jun 20, 2008)

Must have come because they may have used the same internals and the same factory as with the Mattoc.

My Mattoc also did not like stutterbumps and the bushings rattled like hell. 

My old 2018 Lyrik RC is really good at that though - no rattling, no insecure feel, just sucks them up. 

Soooo....no Mezzer. Wait for the Fox 38 ?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

bansaiman said:


> The result is really not really good.
> I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?


shrug. I've used multiple new lyriks and 36 grip 2... they feel really different to me. It's weird seeing them grouped together as some sort of uniform standard for excellence. I would expect people to prefer one over the other, and the mezzer to fall somewhere between.

I don't have enough miles on my mezzer yet to have an opinion. I've only used the factory suggested tune. But it feels like a premium fork to me.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

scottzg said:


> shrug. I've used multiple new lyriks and 36 grip 2... they feel really different to me. It's weird seeing them grouped together as some sort of uniform standard for excellence. I would expect people to prefer one over the other, and the mezzer to fall somewhere between.
> 
> I don't have enough miles on my mezzer yet to have an opinion. I've only used the factory suggested tune. But it feels like a premium fork to me.


In fact lyrik and Fox 36 are very different in many aspects, i would expect a better comparison and a more detailed review. They didn't even say what model of lyrik was used for comparison, i guess 2.1? Seems like they needed to put this review out in hurry, uh

Bushing play has no excuses though, especially on a test fork it's ridiculous.

Dry IRT is not acceptable as well, i hope they don't **** up the launch of their main product for these stupid production issues, that would be crazy. 
I still love my mezzer and i really wish success for Manitou, but you can't compete with rock fox if you **** up the basics.
They need to improve QC asap because is the first impression that counts, in our world.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I've been noticing bushing play in my Mezzer too. If I hold the front brake on like I'm checking the headset for play I can feel the forks knocking back and forth in the bushings. Anyone else notice this?


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Sounds like a great design ruined by sloppy assembly.

Simple solution, buy them from Dougal and get him to check it first. 

That was the plan I was considering but getting my Dorado Dougaluzed instead. 

The 15mm axle killed it for me!


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

CaveGiant said:


> Sounds like a great design ruined by sloppy assembly.
> 
> Simple solution, buy them from Dougal and get him to check it first.
> 
> ...


Greasing is a 10 minute operation. Mine had ok oil volume, no grease on seals, no grease on IRT.
But the mattoc had the same mistakes so i obviously checked it


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

The bushing slop is an issue, but it goes away when the fork is compressed into the lowers slightly, so you shouldn't notice it during normal riding unless you ride the fork at 100% extension. It definitely doesn't rattle around. 

I found the GRIP2 to be less compliant and not track as well as the Mezzer, but I haven't ridden a Lyrik yet. 

Similar to how Fox and RS shouldn't be the gold standard of fork comparisons, Pinkbike isn't the gold standard for reviews, either. The quantity of bikes and components that two or three guys review on a regular basis leads me to believe they likely spend very little time on them compared to others (e.g. Vital, NSMB), because my experiences with most products pretty often contradict theirs.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Adodero said:


> The bushing slop is an issue, but it goes away when the fork is compressed into the lowers slightly, so you shouldn't notice it during normal riding unless you ride the fork at 100% extension. It definitely doesn't rattle around.
> 
> I found the GRIP2 to be less compliant and not track as well as the Mezzer, but I haven't ridden a Lyrik yet.
> 
> Similar to how Fox and RS shouldn't be the gold standard of fork comparisons, Pinkbike isn't the gold standard for reviews, either. The quantity of bikes and components that two or three guys review on a regular basis leads me to believe they likely spend very little time on them compared to others (e.g. Vital, NSMB), because my experiences with most products pretty often contradict theirs.


Agree with everything.

The slop is only noticeable so far when I have no weight on the bike and not on the trail. It's still the best standard fork I've ridden so far.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> The result is really not really good.
> I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?


This is Pinkbike, where the reviewers said a Motion Control RS fork is almost as good as a Fox with a Grip 2 damper.
Let's just say I don't take them all that seriously on product reviews.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

aerius said:


> This is Pinkbike, where the reviewers said a Motion Control RS fork is almost as good as a Fox with a Grip 2 damper.
> Let's just say I don't take them all that seriously on product reviews.


Hahaha!
PinkBike's motto is "We are better than BikeRumor....but not by much"


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

If you want a serious review, where it appears they did more than 2 days with the fork, I'd wait for Vital or NSMB to post one. I know the latter is working on a review now.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Is there a video on how to go about lubing up the internals?


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I am with everyone else that I really don't put any salt into PB's reviews. They seem overly trivialized and "sponsored" to say certain things. Rarely see them as "honest" type reviews. Plus they almost always seem to go with whatever is the "hot" industry standard for racers that year (e.g. Loic Bruni winning certain races on XYZ product). Mind you there are always the chances to get a bad product by chance. I always wonder what has been done by the mfg. to make this a better product since the group/mag did not necessarily purchase themselves. So, those groups that seem to constantly have glowing reviews for the big names, I always look at with a very questioning eye.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Mike Kazimer from the PB comment section:


> @kmg0 and @shinook, I contacted Manitou to let them know what I was experiencing in regards to the bushing play, but they didn't offer up a solution or a response to include in the review. I'll update the article if that changes.


That's not too handy....


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

Another Review.

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/forks/manitou-mezzer-pro-fork-review/


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

hugelick said:


> Another Review.
> 
> https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/forks/manitou-mezzer-pro-fork-review/


That's one seems to be more in line with the general user consensus.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at. 

Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?

Review: Can Manitou's Mezzer Pro Fork Compete With the Best?
quotes @gregnash, I put in months of riding on this fork, and performed the back to back testing in the bike park on more than one occasion in order to confirm my thoughts. I take testing seriously, and put lots of hours and miles of ride time on every product before anything gets published. As for your Lyrik, I'm not sure what could be causing those issues. Have you tried the old zip tie behind the dust wiper trick? Sometimes that can improve the ride feel, especially if you've been doing a bunch of DH runs with bigger elevation changes. But it should never feel like a fully rigid fork - something isn't right there.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

gregnash said:


> LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?
> 
> ...


Comments generally don't get deleted. They get downvoted by the Pinkbike population and then get hidden.

They definitely test for more than one day and few runs. Not sure what issues you're having with your RC2, but mine feels nothing like what you described and I know many other people that aren't having those issues.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

gregnash said:


> LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?
> 
> ...


At the bottom click on below threshold. People can up and down vote comment (good and ill advised). You'll see your comment there.

I think it would've been smarter of them to explain some things in the review that they've now put in the comment section.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

gregnash said:


> LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.


This was in the PB review...

"With the Mezzer, I chose to pit it against a 160mm RockShox Lyrik RC2 after I'd put in plenty of ride time on my home trails to find my base settings."

I'd say that is hinting that he rode it for a bit before the head to head test.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

I found a US distributor for Motorex Supergliss 68K.

They only sell 5 liter jugs though.
I don't need that much.
Does anyone want to buy some from me if I do it?
I'll bottle it up in 0.5 or 1 liters sizes and ship in the US.
$34 for 1 liter, $24 for 0.5 liter shipping included should cover all of the costs.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I think that big companies, RS and Fox put a lot of money into advertising. What happened if the smaller company without budget like the above, get the hard hitting test??? Just asking...


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

I've been emailing with Manitou tech support regarding my issues with IRT pressure migration and lack of factory lubrication.

They are aware of the issues and are dealing with it at the factory, but he also mentioned this regarding the dust seals:

_"As for the main seals, I share your concern. Two things- SKF is actually adamant that the seals not be greased, but they are meant to be lubed with the same semi-bath oil as found in the lowers and I have seen a couple initial run forks in addition to yours that were not lubed."_

Just FYI


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

hugelick said:


> This was in the PB review...
> 
> "With the Mezzer, I chose to pit it against a 160mm RockShox Lyrik RC2 after I'd put in plenty of ride time on my home trails to find my base settings."
> 
> I'd say that is hinting that he rode it for a bit before the head to head test.


You're right, I did read that. But the thing is, can you quantify "a bit" of ride time? 
I approach explanative, or detail oriented, writing as though the person reading it has no indication of what something vague like that means. If you were about to jump out of an airplane with someone and asked them how much training/practice they had and their response was "a bit" would you feel safe?

While that is my own personal thing, and I feel that PB is very RS/FOX oriented in all their reviews, why would I take such a comment, however brief and buried in "a review" as more than "I threw it on the bike and did a few laps, probably less than 20 miles, on my home trails and thought... Meh, that's good enough."


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

And thanks for the info on clicking the below threshold link, that did it and showed me they did not delete the comment.

I thought I remembered that you could click on the link from the dashboard and it USED to take you directly to the comment/responses. Could be wrong or that could have been a higher comment/response post.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hey look, a review from a website that actually took the time to properly set up the fork. Imagine that.

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/forks/manitou-mezzer-pro-fork-review/


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Mullen119 and Dougal

What's your thoughts on the bushing play? I have two Mezzers, one at 160 and the other at 150 travel, and the slop is definitely more in the longer travel but it is in both. It doesn't seem to effect the operation on the fork on the trail but my concern is that if opens up further through use will it cause any excessive wear on any other part like the stanchions? Do I need to get the forks to a shop to get the bushing resized and do you think this is a warranty job?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> Mullen119 and Dougal
> 
> What's your thoughts on the bushing play? I have two Mezzers, one at 160 and the other at 150 travel, and the slop is definitely more in the longer travel but it is in both. It doesn't seem to effect the operation on the fork on the trail but my concern is that if opens up further through use will it cause any excessive wear on any other part like the stanchions? Do I need to get the forks to a shop to get the bushing resized and do you think this is a warranty job?


Ride it for now. More details coming very soon


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Starting to think kazimer and (most of) the crew there are clowns with limited technical knowledge that kowtow to sram, spesh, and a few other big companies.

not news to many, but sad.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

FactoryMatt said:


> Starting to think kazimer and (most of) the crew there are clowns with limited technical knowledge that kowtow to sram, spesh, and a few other big companies.
> 
> not news to many, but sad.


Recently read something on another forum (UK) that basically multiple people stated that product reviews from most any dirt rags this side of the pond were considered shiite and really not trusted. I found it somewhat funny as I had noticed most recently that lots of US or NA based "official" reviews seemed to very much pander to the big names. I get it, these companies play a huge role in revenue stream for these sites through advertising and other marketing "sponsorship" (as I see it) and thus you don't want to bite the hand that feeds.

This is a similar to a conversation I had with a buddy about why people love Lyriks, Fox 36s, and the like. In my overly analytical mind, it really plays to nothing more than those are the things the pros are winning on and wearing. Most riders will see that their favorite pro just won on XYZ brand/model item and thus that must be the most amazing thing for biking! Then add that to the pandering that many sites, dirt rags, etc. do those those same brands and suddenly everyone has to have that product.

Yet when people, some of them engineers, dismantle said new and totally awesome product only to find that the changes from last years model was only some paint, graphics, a couple of small inconsequential internal changes and a new team rider yet said new product is NEW AND IMPROVED and thus commands a premium but still never addresses many of the issues the previous version had and new version still has. Well those people are just haters. If I am curious about a product, first I do some review searching, try to pull out the information on those reviews that seems most common as potential issues. Then from there I look at the "used" market of said product line to see what is going on. If there are tons of the last years model being sold, that tends to tell me that there are issues people are not talking about and are trying to offload in hopes the "new and improved XYZ pro winning version" will have taken care of it.

You see very few Manitou, MRP, DVO, SR Suntour products up for sale on the used market, especially their premium versions. Why is that? Is it because no one is riding them or is it because people are riding them but there are really no issues, they are happy and thus don't want to get rid of it.

Always love the comparisons too, or arguments at least, where people say "Well if XYZ pro wasn't happy and winning with it. Do you really think they would be riding it???"

My answer is always "YES. They are a sponsored rider. So, 1.) they get free products from that mfg., 2.) they are a sponsored rider so they CAN'T say anything bad about their sponsors products that's part of their contract and NDA, and 3.) they are a sponsored rider so their whole kit, aside from maybe the frame, is BRAND NEW ever race. Not to mention their suspension is rebuilt pretty much after EVERY RUN not to mention they have a team suspension pro there to help with their tuning."

Call me cynical, but yeah that's how this kinda stuff works.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Always love the comparisons too, or arguments at least, where people say "Well if XYZ pro wasn't happy and winning with it. Do you really think they would be riding it???"
> 
> My answer is always "YES. They are a sponsored rider. So, 1.) they get free products from that mfg., 2.) they are a sponsored rider so they CAN'T say anything bad about their sponsors products that's part of their contract and NDA, and 3.) they are a sponsored rider so their whole kit, aside from maybe the frame, is BRAND NEW ever race. Not to mention their suspension is rebuilt pretty much after EVERY RUN not to mention they have a team suspension pro there to help with their tuning."
> 
> Call me cynical, but yeah that's how this kinda stuff works.


Also, 4) The products which sponsored riders are using have little in common with the ones you can buy off the shelf. Let's look at Fox for instance, they accidentally admitted that they gimped their consumer forks with a stupid platform setting that actually does nothing outside of a parking lot test.
https://www.bikemag.com/gear/components/first-ride-fox-rad-34/

At the very least, I'd bet almost all those pro forks have custom shim stack tuning which we can't get as consumers, and many of them will also have custom damper pistons, air pistons, adjustment needles, and who knows what else.


----------



## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

hugelick said:


> I found a US distributor for Motorex Supergliss 68K.
> 
> They only sell 5 liter jugs though.
> I don't need that much.
> ...


Odd, is this who you called? I'm certain he said he'd sell it by the liter...

https://eurolineusa.com/category/motorex-products/


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

gregnash said:


> This is a similar to a conversation I had with a buddy about why people love Lyriks, Fox 36s, and the like.


When I got my bike in 2014 I was really excited to ride the new Pike (OEM RC), but I struggled with it from day one. There is obviously a massive thread on here about that model fork, and I eventually gave up on it to get the Mattoc.



gregnash said:


> My answer is always "YES. They are a sponsored rider. So, 1.) they get free products from that mfg., 2.) they are a sponsored rider so they CAN'T say anything bad about their sponsors products that's part of their contract and NDA, and 3.) they are a sponsored rider so their whole kit, aside from maybe the frame, is BRAND NEW ever race. Not to mention their suspension is rebuilt pretty much after EVERY RUN not to mention they have a team suspension pro there to help with their tuning."
> 
> Call me cynical, but yeah that's how this kinda stuff works.


Yeah I don't think anyone serious about buying something will take what sponsored riders use. As you've mentioned, it's often far from OEM and is opened up every race etc. I play a lot of golf, and it's funny as players are often superstitious, and the fact that most golf equipment doesn't really wear out*, some players have used exactly the same stuff for a long time. Even if they wear the manufacturer's shirt and hat. We don't really see that with bikes. 
If you had a Dorado that you won races on, is there any need to actually physically change it if you weren't required to? Sure bushings, seals etc require changing, but how long before there was a risk of actual catastrophic failure of a stanchion, crown or axle?
We all like new stuff, but mountainbiking seems especially vulnerable to it.


----------



## cxfahrer (Jun 20, 2008)

Mudguard said:


> When I got my bike in 2014 I was really excited to ride the new Pike (OEM RC), but I struggled with it from day one. There is obviously a massive thread on here about that model fork, and I eventually gave up on it to get the Mattoc.
> 
> Yeah I don't think anyone serious about buying something will take what sponsored riders use. As you've mentioned, it's often far from OEM and is opened up every race etc. I play a lot of golf, and it's funny as players are often superstitious, and the fact that most golf equipment doesn't really wear out*, some players have used exactly the same stuff for a long time. Even if they wear the manufacturer's shirt and hat. We don't really see that with bikes.
> If you had a Dorado that you won races on, is there any need to actually physically change it if you weren't required to? Sure bushings, seals etc require changing, but how long before there was a risk of actual catastrophic failure of a stanchion, crown or axle?
> We all like new stuff, but mountainbiking seems especially vulnerable to it.


Come on. Conspiracy theories...

I own a Mattoc, a 2016 Pike, and a 2018 Lyrik, and a 2012 Tower Pro. All bikes are or were being ridden on quite equal conditions - guess which forks worked flawlessly from the beginning (ok some oil in the lower legs before riding) and required only some greasing and changing oil?
And which forks had bushing slop very soon and had to be torn down on a weekly base, and still didnt work as they should?
Sure the old Pike RC is not as buttery smooth like the Mattoc. And the Lyrik is overdamped. But: they work. 
The Manitous almost always are not working in some way. 
They are good forks, but their potential is thrown away because of too many faults.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

There is no conspiracy, manitou also pushed very hard on publicizing the mezzer on PB, so basically they are paying them as well.

The review went bad for different causes: -Manitou ****ed up badly, loose bushings and i won't be surprised if that fork is bone dry too, their fault and they deserved it. Many customers mezzer are dry so that is the standard condition of the fork right out of the box. No excuses, naivety can't be forgiven.
-The reviewer clearly has some issues understanding what's happening under those knobs, or how 2 psi can make a difference.

I think it went like this


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

davideb87 said:


> There is no conspiracy, manitou also pushed very hard on publicizing the mezzer on PB, so basically they are paying them as well.
> 
> The review went bad for different causes: -Manitou ****ed up badly, loose bushings and i won't be surprised if that fork is bone dry too, their fault and they deserved it. Many customers mezzer are dry so that is the standard condition of the fork right out of the box. No excuses, naivety can't be forgiven.
> -The reviewer clearly has some issues understanding what's happening under those knobs, or how 2 psi can make a difference.
> ...


I would tend to agree with this. Manitou should have known to make sure Pinkbike got a ringer. But honestly, I can't say it will mater. The Mattoc was the fork of the year and I don't think it helped sales. The Mcleod has sold well because of customer comments.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

The bushing slop was a concrete enough issue for the rest of the review to have some legitimacy. If it wasn't for that, it could easily have been written off as wrong setup or opinion, but one issue of that nature is enough for most folks to consider the rest a concrete fact, as silly as it is. The silence from Manitou on the subject isn't a good look, either, for current owners or future buyers.

I don't think there is any conspiracy to promote Fox or RockShox products. It's likely just what the testers have the most experience with, so setting it up for them is intuitive and quick vs something completely new. The majority of the test bikes they ride will have one or the other, so they've likely spent months on those, compared to a few weeks at best on the Mezzer. There may be some subconscious bias, but I doubt they are worried about saying good things about the Mezzer because of Fox/RS (they've reviewed other forks highly in the past).

Their suspension reviews never align with my own experiences. I found the GRIP2 firmly damped, bordering on overdamped, for most riders. I found the Helm very smooth, although firmly damped, but very similar to the GRIP2 in feel, yet they rip the Helm for being overdamped and praise the GRIP2. I found the Ribbon to be sticky, harsh, flexy, and overall terrible. I've not met anyone that rode the Trust fork and thought it anything but harsh and painful to ride. These are all direct contradictions to their reviews.


----------



## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I read the article and all the comments - and returned to them numerous times to read the updates.

It's very entertaining (in a dark way) to observe how some of the posters get so twisted out of shape over a review. Some people are simply not happy unless everyone else agrees with their opinion. 

I gave up brand loyalty long ago. If something doesn't work for me, I toss it and move on, regardless of what anyone else thinks about the product. 

I read lots of reviews but I certainly don't get upset if the reviewer does not land on the same page as me. They are entitled to their opinion, just as much as I am.

All that said, I didn't find the review and the conclusions that were reached all that shocking (no pun intended). 

I also take a lot of things at this site with a grain of salt - including massive amounts of posting by the same individuals, whose livelihood is derived from the products they are touting. Frankly, I strongly suspect that there is a lot more bias at this site than there is at PB.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I read the article and all the comments - and returned to them numerous times to read the updates.
> 
> It's very entertaining (in a dark way) to observe how some of the posters get so twisted out of shape over a review. Some people are simply not happy unless everyone else agrees with their opinion.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have read plenty of glowing reviews of Fox forks on Pinkbike and found them to be complete garbage. So I take most thing with a grain of salt. Pinkbike is the Mountain Bike Action of the digital age. Same content. Same mentality.


----------



## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I agree with this almost entirely. Ride and form your own opinion. If someone here or elsewhere disagrees ... OK!! They can have an opinion, too. Even if it's different than yours.

I think PB's content is good and occasionally great. Same with Vital and NSMB. Some of you guys are like folks who b!tch that McDonald's is killing us all ... yet they eat there every single day.

If you think PB is part of some conspiracy to sell certain MTB products at the expense of others, just stop reading the content. It's not hard.



mtnbkrmike said:


> I read the article and all the comments - and returned to them numerous times to read the updates.
> 
> It's very entertaining (in a dark way) to observe how some of the posters get so twisted out of shape over a review. Some people are simply not happy unless everyone else agrees with their opinion.
> 
> ...


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

For sure Pinkbike got defective Mezzer. Unfortuntely Im experienced in similar way. Funny thing is Manitou army which I'm also in  I knew if I write something bad about this fork people will hang me here. Finger crossed for Manitou to get it solved asap. Im wondering what should pinkbike do. Just do not publish the truth? On the other side does Manitou deliver forks for tests or testers just buy it somewhere? Such a pity they didnt succeed at 100% with mezzer.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Got it tuned pretty nicely. 225lb rider, 150mm 29er fork

from closed:
main- 75
irt- 110
rebound- 4
HSC- 3
LSC- 5

I haven't hit any proper big features yet, just singletrack. Might need to increase bottomout resistance for bike park stuff.

New bike! First 100% new bike since i started riding.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

We used to tear down brand new JAPANESE motocross bikes when we got them to make sure everytjimg was greased and torqued appropriately. Bike mfgs are forced to make **** even cheaper than that, and we're so cotton picking entitled and cant be fkd to do some TLC on a critical piece of equip before running it. Of course you should tear it down whem u get it. 

Would you go buy a firearm and go run it at the range out of the box? 


Also kazimer, thinking the 36 grip 2 is less harsh than the mezzer is on crack.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> Starting to think kazimer and (most of) the crew there are clowns with limited technical knowledge that kowtow to sram, spesh, and a few other big companies.
> 
> not news to many, but sad.


Yeah, I hear Mike can't even ride a bike, hell, we all know that PinkBike members are waay dumber than MTBR members 

I think I'll just wait a bit until I get a chance to try this fork, my Smashpot Bomber works just fine.

Oh, and FactoryMatt, you might want to check your ego at the door, you are waaay under water on your critiques of others, esp folks you don't know, and who are likely more "factory" than you


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> For sure Pinkbike got defective Mezzer. Unfortuntely Im experienced in similar way. Funny thing is Manitou army which I'm also in  I knew if I write something bad about this fork people will hang me here. Finger crossed for Manitou to get it solved asap. Im wondering what should pinkbike do. Just do not publish the truth? On the other side does Manitou deliver forks for tests or testers just buy it somewhere? Such a pity they didnt succeed at 100% with mezzer.


I'm biased, but will give my 2 cents(key word is my, I am in no way speaking for Manitou)

Pink bike clearly got a bad fork. No excuses for this, its just what happened. Over the last few weeks, the bushing issue has come to Manitou's attention and is being worked out. I'm not going to speak on this at the moment, but it will be publicly addressed very soon. If you are the owner of a fork with a bushing issue, you will be taken care of.

No body will flame someone who talks bad about Manitou. Not everyone likes the same thing, and the mezzer is not for everyone. Its can be a little tricky to set up because of how adjustable it is. Its understandable some people don't have good experiences at first, especially if they are not used to how a Manitou damper works.

The issue I have with the review comes from a few different things. First, the reviewers contact with Manitou was almost non existent. I know what he wrote in the comments, but I also know he made no attempt at contacting the person who installed the fork for him to ask questions about the issues or for set up advice. Second, Manitou was not contacted prior to release of the review to ask for a statement on the issues he found. I'm not saying a reviewer should contact a company in every case prior to posting a review, but a little bit of contact prior to flaming a product would bring validation to a review. I know they have done this for other reviews, seems like common sense. Third, I think its pretty clear by the review that the tester did not spend much time attempting to find good settings. The bushing issue likely made it harder to find good settings, but he contradicts himself in multiple places about set up. Example being that the LSC adjustment does nothing, then says he ran it close to open to avoid harshness. Another being the assumption that more damping means harshness. Maybe true with some dampers and some situations, but Manitou dampers are designed like a Moto damper and do not spike like others. A lack of compression damping can cause harshness just as much as too much Lastly, the review is also pretty short for a review that supposedly took place over months. I have seen first ride articles with more detail and more information than this longer-term review. It really feels like he tossed it on, said it sucks, and went back the lyrik. Never really giving it a true chance.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Reading the PB review, the fork "developed" bushing slop, didn't come with it. Sounds like it was under lubed and the bushings are probably now worn? Those bushings usually have multiple materials in them with a fairly soft layer on the contact areas to help absorb contamination and reduce friction. Ran dry, I imagine it would kill this layer pretty quickly?

I think it does speak to where the OEM market is really at though. MOST bikes don't come with the top end, highly adjustable versions of suspension because most riders won't put in the effort to fully sort it out. They come with the RC and RCT3 type stuff where there is far less to mess up on set up. Go back and watch review videos of the Fox 36 R2C2 versions and you’ll see many struggled to get those setup initially too. I imagine if Manitou wanted to get spec'd on OEM bikes, they'd need to release a version without the IRT and a simpler to adjust damper.

Then everybody would buy the MC2 and IRT as upgrades, just like the people with OEM Lyrik and Fox 36s do...


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mike156 said:


> Reading the PB review, the fork "developed" bushing slop, didn't come with it. Sounds like it was under lubed and the bushings are probably now worn?.


I dropped the lowers on mine and put fresh oil in before riding it, the slop developed after 2-3 rides. I had the proper quantity of oil in, so I doubt it's that.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

mike156 said:


> Reading the PB review, the fork "developed" bushing slop, didn't come with it. Sounds like it was under lubed and the bushings are probably now worn? Those bushings usually have multiple materials in them with a fairly soft layer on the contact areas to help absorb contamination and reduce friction. Ran dry, I imagine it would kill this layer pretty quickly?
> 
> I think it does speak to where the OEM market is really at though. MOST bikes don't come with the top end, highly adjustable versions of suspension because most riders won't put in the effort to fully sort it out. They come with the RC and RCT3 type stuff where there is far less to mess up on set up. Go back and watch review videos of the Fox 36 R2C2 versions and you'll see many struggled to get those setup initially too. I imagine if Manitou wanted to get spec'd on OEM bikes, they'd need to release a version without the IRT and a simpler to adjust damper.
> 
> Then everybody would buy the MC2 and IRT as upgrades, just like the people with OEM Lyrik and Fox 36s do...


There will be a comp version of the mezzer in the future, with the VTT damper and IVA to fit the hole you are speaking of.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Personally I reckon the complecxity of the IRT system is exagerated. People need to know:

1 They need to keep it lubed
2 They need to full it first before main (normally only important when air has been out completely).
3 They need to get a ballpark ratio from the manucturer.

It really ain't that much harder than a normal air spring. People just need to rember to adjust both if they want the ratio to be the same. I wouldn't want to miss it's advantages, but I can imagine there is a market for just a single positive chamber.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> I'm biased, but will give my 2 cents(key word is my, I am in no way speaking for Manitou)
> 
> The issue I have with the review comes from a few different things. First, the reviewers contact with Manitou was almost non existent. I know what he wrote in the comments, but I also know he made no attempt at contacting the person who installed the fork for him to ask questions about the issues or for set up advice. Second, Manitou was not contacted prior to release of the review to ask for a statement on the issues he found.


honestly, i think they embarrassed themselves with Santa Cruz too, panning one of the new bikes without doing any shock tuning at all. and kazimer has show his journeyman status in the past. i wish they'd stay away from tech reviews and/or just become an exclusive e-bike site.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> I'm biased, but will give my 2 cents(key word is my, I am in no way speaking for Manitou)
> 
> Pink bike clearly got a bad fork. No excuses for this, its just what happened. Over the last few weeks, the bushing issue has come to Manitou's attention and is being worked out. I'm not going to speak on this at the moment, but it will be publicly addressed very soon. If you are the owner of a fork with a bushing issue, you will be taken care of.
> 
> ...


He said that HSC knob does better than LSC at controlling low speed...that's something to remember for years.

You are a tester of an important website, you MUST know what you are doing, i'm not pretending that they should be experts but they should know the basics.
Like i said on the comments, we need to remember that these guys have the power to make people decide to buy a component or not, they must be prepared, i can't read that on a review.

I'm not saying that the final opinion on the mezzer would have been different with some sort of knowledge, i still believe that's Manitou fault, you have a new fork you spent years on developing and you clearly don't check it properly before sending it to pinkbike? While other competitors will send the best fork ever produced from their factory. Uh...
Unfortunately the Mezzer will pay for this, an awesome fork lacking adequate commercial support and smartness.


----------



## Verbl Kint (Feb 14, 2013)

Was the fork reviewed by PB bought off the shelf or was it from Manitou itself?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I played a bit with the fork earlier and noticed that the bushing play appears to be occurring when the fork is compressed, as far down as 80-90% of compression. It's most noticeable when the fork is at full extension, but it definitely occurs most of the way down. That is a new development, previously it wouldn't knock past the first few mm of travel. 

I'm also having trouble getting the travel usage I expect out of the fork. I initially thought that it was air trapped in the lowers, because there were sections of trail where prior to ~1week ago, I'd easily get the fork to use 130-140mm of it's travel, now barely get above 100. I went back and tried to burp the lowers, but nothing came out. It still seems to track over small bumps fine, but when it comes to bigger impacts, it doesn't seem to be blowing off as well and square edges are a bit harsher. It's a somewhat recent development, because prior to a week ago or so, it was acting exactly as I would expect. I noticed it most on my ride yesterday, where I did a trail I am really familiar with and have become accustomed to how the fork feels, prior to that I don't know that I would have noticed it since I switched up my rides so much.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Kinda funny how the Mezzer is getting knocked for overly loose bushings and the MRP Ribbon got knocked for overly tight bushings. 

Then Rockshox and Fox get knocked for air and damper seals causing too much stiction as well. 

Meanwhile Cannondale is over there with the Lefty and its needle bearings getting ignored. 

A big travel Lefty, in carbon, with coil and a quality damper would be pretty rad. Might even be comparable in weight to bigger air forks. I'd ride it.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

PHeller said:


> Kinda funny how the Mezzer is getting knocked for overly loose bushings and the MRP Ribbon got knocked for overly tight bushings.
> 
> Then Rockshox and Fox get knocked for air and damper seals causing too much stiction as well.
> 
> ...


I never had issues with Lyrics, Pikes, Ribbon Coil, Bomber Z1, or Fox 36. My only complaint is crappy dampers. The Grip damper has been my fav, not a lot of expereince with Grip 2, but I rode a FIT4 and it flat out sucks (all or nothing).

Stiction is an issue on most air forks and air shocks, but mostly I notice it when the fork is cold or I'm bouncing around in my garage, on the trail once warmed up it's not noticeable.

I'm running a Smashpot Coil in my Bomber Z1 and it's pretty much stiction free, Grip damper works great for fine tuning compression on the fly. Honestly, the fork worked well as an air spring too, so there you go.

EDIT: So ya know how we are so focused on trying to make telescoping forks be something "amazing", and so I'm thinking perhaps they can't really do what we want them to do, ie absorb a force coming from an angle.

I'm no engineer, but it seems like the primary failure in telescoping forks is not going to be overcome by anything other than a different concept altogether.

We seem to have come around to this thinking at the back end of the bike, looking at the axle path, but so far we have not been willing to embrace this same thinking at the front end of the bike.

I played with a Trust fork at Outerbike and it really was a different sensation, it works like no fork I have ever tried. Is the Trust fork the end all and be all, probably not, but it's certainly a better mousetrap.

I really feel like we are near the limits of what a telescoping fork can do, which makes discussions of stiction, damping, and loose/tight bushings sorta meaningless.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Vespasianus said:


> Pinkbike is the Mountain Bike Action of the digital age. Same content. Same mentality.


That's an exaggeration. MBA stands alone in it's ad driven hype.

Sure hope Manitou gets the bugs worked out and there's another solid choice available, or one that's not based on hype (Fux!)


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> I never had issues with Lyrics, Pikes, Ribbon Coil, Bomber Z1, or Fox 36. My only complaint is crappy dampers. The Grip damper has been my fav, not a lot of expereince with Grip 2, but I rode a FIT4 and it flat out sucks (all or nothing).
> 
> Stiction is an issue on most air forks and air shocks, but mostly I notice it when the fork is cold or I'm bouncing around in my garage, on the trail once warmed up it's not noticeable.
> 
> ...


telescopic forks would be absolutely fine with open bath damper/more space for lubrication in spring leg and most importantly with aluminium lowers instead of magnesium so they could be using sliding bushings instead of 2 fixed ones in each leg.Also, I´m not sure if you have noticed most enduro/dh bikes are getting slacker and slacker thus axle path of front wheel is getting closer and closer to high pivot bikes...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CS645 said:


> I guess Dougal's advice would've been lower the main chamber pressure back a bit again and close down the HSC/LSC more?


The tester is about my weight, but running about 20psi more air pressure than me. That would work only for the most aggressive riding (park, DH) and will not work well on choppy trails.

Running the LSC open and complaining about dive is underpants on head material. Especially comparing it to an RC2 Lyrik which has no usable LSC.



robmac48 said:


> Mullen119 and Dougal
> 
> What's your thoughts on the bushing play? I have two Mezzers, one at 160 and the other at 150 travel, and the slop is definitely more in the longer travel but it is in both. It doesn't seem to effect the operation on the fork on the trail but my concern is that if opens up further through use will it cause any excessive wear on any other part like the stanchions? Do I need to get the forks to a shop to get the bushing resized and do you think this is a warranty job?


The issue I found in some Mattoc was an out of shape (by 0.05-0.1mm) pocket on one side (top right). The bushing goes in round and passes all the assembly and pre-sale checks, but when ridden hard the bushing conforms to the pocket and you get just enough fore-aft movement for a perceptible knock that wasn't there last time you saw the fork.

There is no change or wear past that point. Just the initial seating and it's stable. If you have a bushing knock it will be present at the whole stroke, but it's easier to spot with certain tests. The permanent fix is to shim the bushing in the pocket and burnish it in place to round.

I haven't encountered a Mezzer with loose bushings yet, but apparently others have. I don't know if it's a similare issue to some Mattocs or a simple batch casting issue or what.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I played with a Trust fork at Outerbike and it really was a different sensation, it works like no fork I have ever tried. Is the Trust fork the end all and be all, probably not, but it's certainly a better mousetrap.


Dude, everything is a better mousetrap with you, then you ride it more, and you conclude "more of the same" dump it and try the next thing. Which is perfectly fine. But, to call it a better mousetrap without even owning it and riding it for a length of time seems premature.

The Trust is super polarizing - those that demo them seem to be very "meh" about it. Those that are sponsored / some connection to the industry seem to have a much better "experience" with them.

Agree with your points about stiction. I have a 2017 Pike that I can basically "get stuck" when pushing down because stiction is so bad. But it's becoming one of my favorite forks.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cxfahrer said:


> Come on. Conspiracy theories...
> 
> I own a Mattoc, a 2016 Pike, and a 2018 Lyrik, and a 2012 Tower Pro. All bikes are or were being ridden on quite equal conditions - guess which forks worked flawlessly from the beginning (ok some oil in the lower legs before riding) and required only some greasing and changing oil?
> And which forks had bushing slop very soon and had to be torn down on a weekly base, and still didnt work as they should?
> ...


What issues are you having with your Mattoc and Tower? Which one needed weekly teardowns and why?

Sometimes, when problems keep recurring, you need to change the mechanic.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Another thought about the Pinkbike article.

He increased air pressure because it was riding too low. Does anyone else think the fork was compressed when he removed the pump? Thus locking it into a shorter travel setting?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> is underpants on head material.


This is THE BEST line in this thread.
Dougal....I'm gonna have t-shirts printed with this!


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

I read the PB article. My opinion is I rec a fork direct and it was a early one. I had some complaints and actually had to send it in for repair before actually ridding it. When I got it back I actually took it apart and lubed all the O rings, seals and wipers, plus added the proper amount of oil bath. The only thing I havent done is go into or bleed the damper. My opinion wasnt great in the beginning. Maybe I shouldnt have had to go through all this because it should have arrived lie this. However I am totally happy with it, loving it actually. I can change travel in 20 minutes, lube all the seals and on the trail it is as solid as advertised. Totally stoked to have the Mezzer. My 2 cents


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

davideb87 said:


> He said that HSC knob does better than LSC at controlling low speed...that's something to remember for years.
> 
> You are a tester of an important website, you MUST know what you are doing, i'm not pretending that they should be experts but they should know the basics.
> Like i said on the comments, we need to remember that these guys have the power to make people decide to buy a component or not, they must be prepared, i can't read that on a review.
> ...


I agree with this. I checked and the fork was a off the self product. That is Manitou's mistake for sure. Not that I find it ok for any company to change a product and send a ringer to try to get positive publicity, but I truly believe that it happens more often than it doesn't. They should have checked it (though it was installed prior to knowledge of issues existing)


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Another thought about the Pinkbike article.
> 
> He increased air pressure because it was riding too low. Does anyone else think the fork was compressed when he removed the pump? Thus locking it into a shorter travel setting?


Did not cross my mind until you just said it, but possible. I believe MK did the review on the mattoc pro 2, so you would think he had knowledge of how to set it up. But it would explain some things.

I don't think MK is a bad guy or anything. I personally think his fork was a lemon, and he got lost in the settings trying to make it work. The bushing issue is being addressed, as is the dry seals and IRT (seals are not supposed to be greased,bath oil is supposed to be used according to skf).

The fair thing in my opinion is to redo the review in the spring. His fork was not a good Example of what the Mezzer is capable of, as proven by the other reviews and users that rave about it. Maybe he will contact some people from the engineering department to help with the set up if he has issues.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> The tester is about my weight, but running about 20psi more air pressure than me. That would work only for the most aggressive riding (park, DH) and will not work well on choppy trails.


Kazimer lives in bellingham, and you just described their trails. Place is fulla jumps and bermed corners. Not really any chunk to speak of. That said, while i was there i ran my usual pressure and cranked up the compression.

Your settings seem more weird to me than his do.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Adodero said:


> I played a bit with the fork earlier and noticed that the bushing play appears to be occurring when the fork is compressed, as far down as 80-90% of compression. It's most noticeable when the fork is at full extension, but it definitely occurs most of the way down. That is a new development, previously it wouldn't knock past the first few mm of travel.
> 
> I'm also having trouble getting the travel usage I expect out of the fork. I initially thought that it was air trapped in the lowers, because there were sections of trail where prior to ~1week ago, I'd easily get the fork to use 130-140mm of it's travel, now barely get above 100. I went back and tried to burp the lowers, but nothing came out. It still seems to track over small bumps fine, but when it comes to bigger impacts, it doesn't seem to be blowing off as well and square edges are a bit harsher. It's a somewhat recent development, because prior to a week ago or so, it was acting exactly as I would expect. I noticed it most on my ride yesterday, where I did a trail I am really familiar with and have become accustomed to how the fork feels, prior to that I don't know that I would have noticed it since I switched up my rides so much.


Have you checked air pressures? Perhaps there is air migration occurring.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm still buying a Mezzer next Spring or Summer. I need Manitou to have fixed the issues by then.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Did not cross my mind until you just said it, but possible. I believe MK did the review on the mattoc pro 2, so you would think he had knowledge of how to set it up. But it would explain some things.
> 
> I don't think MK is a bad guy or anything. I personally think his fork was a lemon, and he got lost in the settings trying to make it work. The bushing issue is being addressed, as is the dry seals and IRT (seals are not supposed to be greased,bath oil is supposed to be used according to skf).
> 
> The fair thing in my opinion is to redo the review in the spring. His fork was not a good Example of what the Mezzer is capable of, as proven by the other reviews and users that rave about it. Maybe he will contact some people from the engineering department to help with the set up if he has issues.


There are two issues with the fork. Lubrication and bushing. The IRT lubrication is frustrating as it's such an easy fix at assembly. The wiper seal lubrication only matters for the first few miles, after that you have a bath oil sheen on the legs and the wipers are good.

The bushing issue I haven't seen yet on this fork but the Mezzers I have were a later batch than most US stock.

We do know that Manitou will take care of all affected owners.



scottzg said:


> Kazimer lives in bellingham, and you just described their trails. Place is fulla jumps and bermed corners. Not really any chunk to speak of. That said, while i was there i ran my usual pressure and cranked up the compression.
> 
> Your settings seem more weird to me than his do.


What Mezzer settings do you ride and why do you think mine are weird?

I've got equivalence to a roughly 35 lb/in coil spring with my air settings and use compression damping for stability and taking out bump energy. On my Mattoc I ran 40/80psi with closed LSC but the Mezzer has a bigger diameter air piston so lower pressures give the same forces.

I ran the same Mattoc settings for chunky trails, park and everything. Parks aren't open for Mezzer testing yet, but I have some DH runs and trail rides.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> What Mezzer settings do you ride and why do you think mine are weird?
> 
> I've got equivalence to a roughly 35 lb/in coil spring with my air settings and use compression damping for stability and taking out bump energy. On my Mattoc I ran 40/80psi with closed LSC but the Mezzer has a bigger diameter air piston so lower pressures give the same forces.
> 
> I ran the same Mattoc settings for chunky trails, park and everything. Parks aren't open for Mezzer testing yet, but I have some DH runs and trail rides.


I posted my set up (so far, only have 5 rides on it...) here.

I didn't intend to say you're doing it wrong, i have no idea. My last manitou fork was a 2006. I spent my first couple rides solo trying to replicate your setup at my weight, and it didn't work for me. I'd be interested in hearing your conjecture on what/why, but i'm not too worried about it. 

I really just commented because kazimer is riding galbraith, which imo is somewhat unusual terrain. I follow him on strava, we posted similar times when i visited last summer, and his setup made sense to me. (his lumping grip2 and lyrik didn't)


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> There are two issues with the fork. Lubrication and bushing. The IRT lubrication is frustrating as it's such an easy fix at assembly. The wiper seal lubrication only matters for the first few miles, after that you have a bath oil sheen on the legs and the wipers are good.
> 
> The bushing issue I haven't seen yet on this fork but the Mezzers I have were a later batch than most US stock.
> 
> ...


The IRT lube annoys me more than the main seal lube. Skf requests that grease not be used, which is a first for the factory. I can see how that mistake happens even though it should be very clear to lube them with bath oil first. The dry IRT shafts has been a little bit of a ongoing issue with the factory, which is more frustrating to me.

I haven't come across bushing issues in person either, but its very clear that they exist.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Speaking of Galbraith set-up being different. I was running 20 psi more up there than at my local trails. 105 psi in a Lyrik for the hero dirt conditions that existed in Bellingham. 

At home, I dropped psi to 85 and lowered my tire air pressure to get it all to hook up in the summer marbles. Only point is, it's hard to judge someone else's setup based on where you ride.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> The IRT lube annoys me more than the main seal lube. *Skf requests that grease not be used*, which is a first for the factory. I can see how that mistake happens even though it should be very clear to lube them with bath oil first. The dry IRT shafts has been a little bit of a ongoing issue with the factory, which is more frustrating to me.
> 
> I haven't come across bushing issues in person either, but its very clear that they exist.


I'm about to open my Mezzer to give it a check after the first few rides and move the travel spacers to the other side of the washer as I didn't notice the washer when I reduced travel and put the spacers on the wrong side of it.

So when I reassemble the fork, should I wipe the grease out of the main seals that I put in and just wipe a bit of bath oil on them since SKF are not recommending greasing them?

As the rest here, my air and IRT shafts were completely dry from the factory causing the sliding piston heads to be very draggy and the piston heads had a very small amount of grease on the quad seals. My first fork arrived from the factory with sloppy bushings on the right leg. There was clear play and knocking as soon as I installed it on the bike. The fork went straight back and got swapped for a new one. So far the bushings are good on its fork but I've only had a few rides.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> I'm about to open my Mezzer to give it a check after the first few rides and move the travel spacers to the other side of the washer as I didn't notice the washer when I reduced travel and put the spacers on the wrong side of it.
> 
> So when I reassemble the fork, should I wipe the grease out of the main seals that I put in and just wipe a bit of bath oil on them since SKF are not recommending greasing them?
> 
> As the rest here, my air and IRT shafts were completely dry from the factory causing the sliding piston heads to be very draggy and the piston heads had a very small amount of grease on the quad seals. My first fork arrived from the factory with sloppy bushings on the right leg. There was clear play and knocking as soon as I installed it on the bike. The fork went straight back and got swapped for a new one. So far the bushings are good on its fork but I've only had a few rides.


Yes, wipe the grease out and lube them with bath oil. I don't know if grease will technically cause an issue, but skf is adamant that bath oil is used on these seals.

I haven't noticed any main air shafts not being greased. I'll keep an eye out for it though.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Yes, wipe the grease out and lube them with bath oil. I don't know if grease will technically cause an issue, but skf is adamant that bath oil is used on these seals.
> 
> I haven't noticed any main air shafts not being greased. I'll keep an eye out for it though.


Thanks. Just completed the job. The washer was stuck against the bottom of the piston pretty hard, no wonder I didn't notice it.

Also,BTW the Park Tool 5.2 cassette tool works fine without having to cut a slot into it if you push in the air piston to like David shows on his video. It's a good way of doing it as it prevents the possibility of accidentally marking the air spring shaft.


----------



## andymtb92 (Sep 8, 2019)

Lol knock knock hello bushings.
Hello dougal.


I'll just stick with my lyrik.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

mullen119 said:


> Yes, wipe the grease out and lube them with bath oil. I don't know if grease will technically cause an issue, but skf is adamant that bath oil is used on these seals.
> 
> I haven't noticed any main air shafts not being greased. I'll keep an eye out for it though.


Curious - do you disassemble and check any new fork you deal with?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> I haven't come across bushing issues in person either, but its very clear that they exist.


IIRC you make your way down to NC every so often, if you are around anytime soon then I can show you mine.

Any idea what the plan is from Manitou to address the issue?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Adodero said:


> IIRC you make your way down to NC every so often, if you are around anytime soon then I can show you mine.
> 
> Any idea what the plan is from Manitou to address the issue?


I try to head to Brevard once or twice a year. Next chance would be spring time. Upcoming knee surgery will keep me down for a little bit. Plus winter is coming, so probably March or something.

The cause of the issue was found, not sure on the time frame yet. Should be addressed very soon though. Anyone with issues will be taken care of.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

andymtb92 said:


> Lol knock knock hello bushings.
> Hello dougal.
> 
> I'll just stick with my lyrik.


Made an account for this?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

mullen119 said:


> I try to head to Brevard once or twice a year. Next chance would be spring time. Upcoming knee surgery will keep me down for a little bit. Plus winter is coming, so probably March or something.
> 
> The cause of the issue was found, not sure on the time frame yet. Should be addressed very soon though. Anyone with issues will be taken care of.


Ah, should be resolved by then I'd hope!

Good to know they found the cause. Hope surgery goes well, thanks for the info


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

EatsDirt said:


> That's an exaggeration. MBA stands alone in it's ad driven hype.
> 
> Sure hope Manitou gets the bugs worked out and there's another solid choice available, or one that's not based on hype (Fux!)


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/2018-fox-36-first-ride.html

Enough said. MBA wrecking crew.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> The cause of the issue was found, not sure on the time frame yet. Should be addressed very soon though. Anyone with issues will be taken care of.


Was it a tolerance issue, assembly or material issue? Also is it limited to a specific group of serial numbers?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That would make sense since users don't know that trick, I only know it from riding a Mastodon.



Dougal said:


> Another thought about the Pinkbike article.
> 
> He increased air pressure because it was riding too low. Does anyone else think the fork was compressed when he removed the pump? Thus locking it into a shorter travel setting?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

andymtb92 said:


> Lol knock knock hello bushings.
> Hello dougal.
> 
> I'll just stick with my lyrik.


Knock knock hello suspension tuners.
My lyrik doesn't work like they say on the amazing review on the internet, can you help me? How much cash?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> The tester is about my weight, but running about 20psi more air pressure than me. That would work only for the most aggressive riding (park, DH) and will not work well on choppy trails.
> 
> Running the LSC open and complaining about dive is underpants on head material. Especially comparing it to an RC2 Lyrik which has no usable LSC.
> 
> ...


...


----------



## Smackem (Sep 2, 2019)

Fox’s or RockShox can’t be that great given all the companies that make a living modifying them. Some in fact make them work like a Mezzer.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll be keen to see NSMB's review of this fork. :thumbsup:


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Was it a tolerance issue, assembly or material issue? Also is it limited to a specific group of serial numbers?


There will be an official statement coming soon. I will wait for that before discussing details.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Our heavy duty tester (200kg) is liking the Mezzer so far:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B3jVCi6H5pW/


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scottzg said:


> I posted my set up (so far, only have 5 rides on it...) here.
> 
> I didn't intend to say you're doing it wrong, i have no idea. My last manitou fork was a 2006. I spent my first couple rides solo trying to replicate your setup at my weight, and it didn't work for me. I'd be interested in hearing your conjecture on what/why, but i'm not too worried about it.
> 
> I really just commented because kazimer is riding galbraith, which imo is somewhat unusual terrain. I follow him on strava, we posted similar times when i visited last summer, and his setup made sense to me. (his lumping grip2 and lyrik didn't)


There's a lot of difference in our setups, besides weight you're on a hardtail which promotes a forward riding position because that's your only suspension. I ride FS which keeps my weight further back and suspension balance.

Galbraith looks like my home trails but with loamier dirt and softer/more rounded rocks. I'm not convinced his terrain is an outlier for setup that changes the physics of mass, spring and damper tuning.

https://www.trailforks.com/region/alexandra/photos/


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> There's a lot of difference in our setups, besides weight you're on a hardtail which promotes a forward riding position because that's your only suspension. I ride FS which keeps my weight further back and suspension balance.
> 
> Galbraith looks like my home trails but with loamier dirt and softer/more rounded rocks. I'm not convinced his terrain is an outlier for setup that changes the physics of mass, spring and damper tuning.
> 
> https://www.trailforks.com/region/alexandra/photos/


Oh, totally!

Galbraith really is pretty unique though. I've ridden most destinations in the western US, and galbraith is a real outlier. I hit more >10' doubles, bottomed my suspension in berms, and cased more jumps in 3 weeks riding there than i did in the previous 5 years. It's what you do there, and the trails are so well-built that it's totally fine.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Can I use the 20wt Fox Gold for the lowers?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scottzg said:


> Oh, totally!
> 
> Galbraith really is pretty unique though. I've ridden most destinations in the western US, and galbraith is a real outlier. I hit more >10' doubles, bottomed my suspension in berms, and cased more jumps in 3 weeks riding there than i did in the previous 5 years. It's what you do there, and the trails are so well-built that it's totally fine.


I'm not a jumper, this kiwi doesn't intentionally fly, but when I ride chairlift and park I keep the same settings. Haven't been there with the Mezzer yet, but with the Mattoc I had happiness from 60km/h fireroads to 30km/h chunk and 1.5m accidental drops to flat.

My Mezzer air settings (35/55psi) are intending to replicate my Mattoc settings (40/80psi). There's nowhere I'd run 50% more air pressure without massively handicapping my riding.

I suspect the reviewer isn't used to hydraulic bottom-out or good damping and gets scared of running into the end of the travel with only a few mm of rubber to protect his wrists.



badIuck said:


> Can I use the 20wt Fox Gold for the lowers?


You can, but it's like a third or fourth best option. Get some Supergliss or Motorex 5W40.


----------



## tdc_worm (Dec 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Our heavy duty tester (200kg) is liking the Mezzer so far:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B3jVCi6H5pW/


At 200kg, or 441lbs, i would imagine that your tester, if anyone, could verify chassis stiffness. Or stiffness of any other component for that matter haha


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Definitely sucks that MK got a lemon in the first place, but it happens when you are sending a true representation of your retail product, not something that has been hand picked and tampered with. The handling of the issue seemed a bit off to me based on reading between the lines and the style of writing. 

Again, qualitative and quantitative writing aren't all that hard. Given that specific examples are easily come across as most riders track their rides via any number of ride services, and if they don't they often know how hard and where they rode so they can make an educated guess at what the amount of miles/time put on said item, that is what really baffled me. Maybe I am overly analytical but I generally know how long a particular ride is going to be, regardless of me never having ridden the trails or not. I normally will ask the question of "How long we talking" for rides (ask Ben) and can make a general assumption on that the length of the ride, even if just given a ballpark of "we'll be out there for a good 4hrs." is all I get. 

The fact that he blatantly states that he rode it on his home trails while attempting to setup and then put in a park day, yeah I know the general mileage of all my normal rides as that is why they are my "home trails". If he can't quantify that number easily, then he really should not be writing "review" type postings, or at least his editor should be sending it back stating he wants numbers. Had he simply approached this as a "first impressions" type review and even stated that something further would come after some contact with Manitou about the issues. I would have been bummed at the outcome of the posting but that would have been it, I would have patiently waited for a "full" review to happen. 

Also, above someone mentioned about how they would teardown the Japanese race motos to ensure everything was greased, lubed, torqued properly and couldn't understand why most didn't have the same mentality. I get it and agree, but here is the thing, you apparently were doing this in an engineering/technician/mechanic schema that would lend to the fact that was YOUR JOB at the time. In which case, that is something that is completely acceptable. For the majority of riders out there, most are not home/garage mechanics, thus they do not have the space/time/tools to be able to do such things and thus don't do them themselves. Not to mention, FOX warranty states that if the product is worked on other than by an authorized FOX mechanic/technician it voids the warranty. This is/was cleared stated in their service guidelines for when I had a FOX CTD shock on my old trail bike. So who do you know, that just purchased a new bike, is going to potentially void their warranty on a part on the bike by opening it up just to check and make sure it was "done" properly. As my brother stated recently when we were talking bikes and I was expressing my distaste for my issues with my Code R brakes, "Yeah, I want to be able to ride my bike without having to babysit the components. That right there makes it bin worthy and I am happy to spend the money on something else that just works." 

Mind you this is all personal preference and conjecture. Hell, I have been loving my RS Super Deluxe coil and SRAM drivetrain. The Lyrik on put on the bike, and the Yari before it, meh not so much. The Lyrik is definitely better than it was after lots and lots of fiddling but still not my favorite and will get replaced next year with a Mezzer or a Durolux (haven't really decided, still leaning toward the Mezzer). But then again, who am I, nothing more than an internet poster.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

tdc_worm said:


> At 200kg, or 441lbs, i would imagine that your tester, if anyone, could verify chassis stiffness. Or stiffness of any other component for that matter haha


I was thinking the exact same thing. That is one big man


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tdc_worm said:


> At 200kg, or 441lbs, i would imagine that your tester, if anyone, could verify chassis stiffness. Or stiffness of any other component for that matter haha





kwapik said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing. That is one big man


Yes he is, about a foot taller than me. Great mechanic too so we get very good feedback:

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bsh5ZZqFQjn/

The Mattoc worked very well for him.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Here are some spring-rate equivalents (mid-stroke) for the Mezzer IRT system. I've created these based off charts from the Manitou engineering team. Primarily for to get equivalence to my spring-rate calculators for quick and easy setup.
> 
> Spring rate calculators: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/calculators-14/bike-spring-rate-calculators
> 
> ...


I was browsing through this thread, must have missed this earlier. What travel setting are these air pressures for? 180/full extension?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adodero said:


> I was browsing through this thread, must have missed this earlier. What travel setting are these air pressures for? 180/full extension?


Calculated for 180mm. But I'm using them for 160mm.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> There will be an official statement coming soon. I will wait for that before discussing details.


Any indication of how soon this statement will be? I have a bike trip in about 4 weeks and I'd like at least one set working like it should before I go.

Dougal, are you aware of the fix? I might end up sending you the forks to sort out if this warranty fix doesn't present soon.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> Any indication of how soon this statement will be? I have a bike trip in about 4 weeks and I'd like at least one set working like it should before I go.
> 
> Dougal, are you aware of the fix? I might end up sending you the forks to sort out if this warranty fix doesn't present soon.


I'm not sure. You can try starting a warranty claim now and hopefully you will be at the top of the list.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> Any indication of how soon this statement will be? I have a bike trip in about 4 weeks and I'd like at least one set working like it should before I go.
> 
> Dougal, are you aware of the fix? I might end up sending you the forks to sort out if this warranty fix doesn't present soon.


I know what's going on but I'm going to let Hayes-Manitou come out with a statement when they're ready as they know more than I do.

If you've got a loose bushing, there is no issue riding the forks and, you will be taken care of.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> You can, but it's like a third or fourth best option. Get some Supergliss or Motorex 5W40.


Dougal....which Motorex 5W40 do you recommend?
They have "Performance", "Boxxer", "4T", "4T Racing".....the list goes on....


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

the mayor said:


> Dougal....which Motorex 5W40 do you recommend?
> They have "Performance", "Boxxer", "4T", "4T Racing".....the list goes on....


Power synt 4t 5w40


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> Power synt 4t 5w40


Hey! You're not Dougal!
Just kidding.....Thank you!
Oddly....that is the cheapest of all the Motorex 5W40 variants at the shop! ( they really stick it to the Boxxer guys!)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Dougal....which Motorex 5W40 do you recommend?
> They have "Performance", "Boxxer", "4T", "4T Racing".....the list goes on....


Power Synt 4T 5W40.

Motorex make an astounding range of oils.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Power Synt 4T 5W40.
> 
> Motorex make an astounding range of oils.


You have to wonder how much difference is there between the $15 Power Synt and the $39 Boxer


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I know what's going on but I'm going to let Hayes-Manitou come out with a statement when they're ready as they know more than I do.
> 
> If you've got a loose bushing, there is no issue riding the forks and, you will be taken care of.


Is there a chance with loose bushings that could bind under certain conditions?

Doesn't happen all the time but it is happening more frequently during each ride when the fork feels like it has bottomed out when I don't believe it actually has....fork goes rock solid on a landing for example when previously it would just suck it up without a drama. Low speed shaft movements are ok, seems to be all high speed movements that are affected given the knocking over rooty repeated hits and landings.

I'm confident of being looked after too, just want it fixed asap and move on but it's very off putting when riding. I've contacted Hayes already, waiting on a response.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Hi there, I'm being delivered a Mezzer soon. Reading the thread I saw that some forks may need proper lubrification before first use.

As I didn't see any service manual on manitou's website yet, could someone sum up what should be done to make sure the fork is properly lubricated ?
I guess first thing first would be soaking the dust seals with Power Synt 4T 5W40 ? Anything else ? 

If there's only that, could I inject the oil directly from the stanchions or is it recommended to drop the lowers, remove the seals and dip them in oil ?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

gui21st said:


> Hi there, I'm being delivered a Mezzer soon. Reading the thread I saw that some forks may need proper lubrification before first use.
> 
> As I didn't see any service manual on manitou's website yet, could someone sum up what should be done to make sure the fork is properly lubricated ?
> I guess first thing first would be soaking the dust seals with Power Synt 4T 5W40 ? Anything else ?
> ...


Lubing IRT has priority because it will probably be dry and will end in failure of the seals, you need a cassette tool and suspension grease.
Lowers usually have correct oil volume but checking doesn't hurt.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Thanks ! which kind of suspension grease did you use ?

Also, for the oil volume, I didn't see the Mezzer in the oil height diagram document. Are there any indications inside the lowers that specify the recommended volume ?


----------



## Undescended (Apr 16, 2018)

gui21st said:


> Thanks ! which kind of suspension grease did you use ?
> 
> Also, for the oil volume, I didn't see the Mezzer in the oil height diagram document. Are there any indications inside the lowers that specify the recommended volume ?


Slickoleum...


----------



## Evil_Bun (Sep 9, 2019)

gui21st said:


> Thanks ! which kind of suspension grease did you use ?
> 
> Also, for the oil volume, I didn't see the Mezzer in the oil height diagram document. Are there any indications inside the lowers that specify the recommended volume ?


The oil height diagram is for their open bath dampers. The Mezzer has a sealed bladder. The lower legs just need semi-bath listed below, 15-20cc per leg.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> Is there a chance with loose bushings that could bind under certain conditions?
> 
> Doesn't happen all the time but it is happening more frequently during each ride when the fork feels like it has bottomed out when I don't believe it actually has....fork goes rock solid on a landing for example when previously it would just suck it up without a drama. Low speed shaft movements are ok, seems to be all high speed movements that are affected given the knocking over rooty repeated hits and landings.


I'd like to know the answer to this, also.

Mine has a minor amount of play, I've definitely seen worse, but it wasn't there when I first got the fork.

I noticed on my first two rides (pre-bushing play) that the recommended settings were a bit on the soft side and the fork gave up travel easier than I would have liked, but that seems to have changed a bit and I'm using less travel than I was then. The fork also feels a slight bit harsher, which resulted in me going back to the recommended settings (which felt better this time, 73/105 for a 220ish lb rider) and reducing the IRT from 105 -> 100 to improve a bit of a harsh feeling. There are sections of the trail that I felt the fork tracked better and were less harsh early on, where it also used more travel than it is currently. These are mostly sections of trail that I'm real familiar with and ride frequently. I noted on my ride yesterday with 100psi in the IRT that the fork behaved a lot closer to what it did previously at 75/110.

That said, it could be influenced by the fact my previous fork was a Helm, which is notoriously firmly damped. It's possible I've acclimated to the lighter tune on the Mezzer and what I'm trying to get in feel has shifted a bit, but the travel usage leads me to believe something else is going on. There are sections of trail where I would, early on, pretty consistently get it into HBO territory, but now don't come as close.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Perhaps pressure build up in the casting? Thus relieve it with small cable ties under the dust wipers


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Perhaps pressure build up in the casting? Thus relieve it with small cable ties under the dust wipers


That was my first thought, I tried that but nothing came out


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> Is there a chance with loose bushings that could bind under certain conditions?
> 
> Doesn't happen all the time but it is happening more frequently during each ride when the fork feels like it has bottomed out when I don't believe it actually has....fork goes rock solid on a landing for example when previously it would just suck it up without a drama. Low speed shaft movements are ok, seems to be all high speed movements that are affected given the knocking over rooty repeated hits and landings.
> 
> I'm confident of being looked after too, just want it fixed asap and move on but it's very off putting when riding. I've contacted Hayes already, waiting on a response.


I've never experienced binding from loose bushings. I have had reports from other forks about binding due to the bushings and I think it was a bushing on the tight side somewhere else in the fork. After bushing resizing the customers were very happy.



gui21st said:


> Hi there, I'm being delivered a Mezzer soon. Reading the thread I saw that some forks may need proper lubrification before first use.
> 
> As I didn't see any service manual on manitou's website yet, could someone sum up what should be done to make sure the fork is properly lubricated ?
> I guess first thing first would be soaking the dust seals with Power Synt 4T 5W40 ? Anything else ?
> ...


The most important bit is the IRT. Drop the air pressure, pull that out the top, grease the shaft and slide the piston up and down to pickup the grease. The bath oil has been fine in all the new Manitou's I've seen and works it's way up to the seals pretty quick when ridden. Pulling the lowers and wiping some bath oil into the wiper seals will make the fork feel better for the first hour or so riding.



bansaiman said:


> Perhaps pressure build up in the casting? Thus relieve it with small cable ties under the dust wipers


Please don't do that on any fork. It pushes debris down into the seals where it can wear the stanchions. If you have pressurised lowers on any fork then you need a fork rebuild and new air-seals.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

I dropped my lowers tonight to replace the Fox gold bath oil with motorex powersynt and lube the dust seals with it.

I noticed the rubber bumpers that sit in the bottom of the fork legs were rolling around loose. I repositioned them as best I could with the tapered side down but they don’t seem very secure.

Do these thing actually seat in the fork legs or are they supposed to pop out that easily?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

When I get my first ride on the mezzer should I rather go with a sag around 20 to 23 percent and only little damping or less air pressure and compensate the ride height with lsc hsc? I have an active riding style and weight 87 kilos.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Evil_Bun said:


> The oil height diagram is for their open bath dampers. The Mezzer has a sealed bladder. The lower legs just need semi-bath listed below, 15-20cc per leg.


Oh, I didn't pay attention that it was not an open bath. Thanks for the clarification.



Heist30 said:


> Slickoleum...


I'll go with Sram butter then, I don't think Slickoleum deliver to EU.



Dougal said:


> The most important bit is the IRT. Drop the air pressure, pull that out the top, grease the shaft and slide the piston up and down to pickup the grease. The bath oil has been fine in all the new Manitou's I've seen and works it's way up to the seals pretty quick when ridden. Pulling the lowers and wiping some bath oil into the wiper seals will make the fork feel better for the first hour or so riding.
> .


Thanks for the additional info !


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

bansaiman said:


> When I get my first ride on the mezzer should I rather go with a sag around 20 to 23 percent and only little damping or less air pressure and compensate the ride height with lsc hsc? I have an active riding style and weight 87 kilos.


My experience so far says go with lower air pressure and adjust compression to get the support you are looking for.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Thus more compression damping and less rebound to keep it compliant?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

bansaiman said:


> Thus more compression damping and less rebound to keep it compliant?


With lower air pressures you will likely need less rebound, so yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

What is the oil volume for each leg in the lowers? I think I remember seeing 30cc. Apologies as I am sure this has been mentioned before.

Thanks


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> I dropped my lowers tonight to replace the Fox gold bath oil with motorex powersynt and lube the dust seals with it.
> 
> I noticed the rubber bumpers that sit in the bottom of the fork legs were rolling around loose. I repositioned them as best I could with the tapered side down but they don't seem very secure.
> 
> ...


I had the bumper in the left leg loose when I first opened the fork. I looked in the right leg with a torch to see which way up is was supposed to go then pushed it back down with a dowel. It's been fine since. Unfortunately, I don't remember which way up it went in though - sorry.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Can anyone give a quck rundown on what should ideally be done before taking the fork on the first ride by any chance?

Greasing the IRT piston O-rings
Check lower oil levels (how much oil is supposed to be in the left and right leg?)
Anything else?

Also is there anything that should be checked/serviced more regularly than usual?

Would really appreciate some help as I can't seem to find ANY instructions whatsoever.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

badIuck said:


> Can anyone give a quck rundown on what should ideally be done before taking the fork on the first ride by any chance?
> 
> Greasing the IRT piston O-rings
> Check lower oil levels (how much oil is supposed to be in the left and right leg?)
> ...


15cc of oil per leg, no grease on the main seal, just put oil on them.

IRT shaft grease


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

RE: Oil vs Grease on main seals

So for some reason SKF is recommending bath oil on the main seals instead of grease (slick honey).

I went from dry from the factory, to slick honey. Got some Motorex semi bath in so I re did the seals and bath oil in the Motorex. 

Just switched back to slick honey on the seals to verify my findings.. the fork performs much worse with oil only on the seals, super noticeable vs properly slick honey’d.

I’m not sure why this is being recommended. It could be a materials thing or perhaps it’s the grease viscosity vs the seal fit causing more grease to push past the seals. The reason is not a performance increase however so use oil only if you want a less sensitive fork IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Still waiting on Hayes releasing this warranty fix.....still no response from Hayes to my emails...getting closer to my bike trip by the day!!

Might have to send my forks to NZ for a little holiday at this rate!


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

I’ve heard this before with SKF but literally no one I know would only use oil or nothing, they clearly work better with grease


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Not using grease seemed very odd to me, considering your trying to maintain lubrication on a vertical surface the top of a cylinder where splash oiling is going to be difficult. That seems like something that that the bushing manufacturer should be determining not the seal company?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Ganderson said:


> I dropped my lowers tonight to replace the Fox gold bath oil with motorex powersynt and lube the dust seals with it.
> 
> I noticed the rubber bumpers that sit in the bottom of the fork legs were rolling around loose. I repositioned them as best I could with the tapered side down but they don't seem very secure.
> 
> ...


Manitou wants me to send my fork in for the loose bottom out bumpers:

_"The bottomout bumpers shouldn't be loose. It sounds like your fork will have to come in for warranty work. Would you like us to set up an RA?"_

So I guess this is a bigger issue than re-seating with a dowel?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> Still waiting on Hayes releasing this warranty fix.....still no response from Hayes to my emails...getting closer to my bike trip by the day!!
> 
> Might have to send my forks to NZ for a little holiday at this rate!


Engineering fixes can take a while to get right. Just hold tight for the moment.



mike156 said:


> Not using grease seemed very odd to me, considering your trying to maintain lubrication on a vertical surface the top of a cylinder where splash oiling is going to be difficult. That seems like something that that the bushing manufacturer should be determining not the seal company?


It's odd to me too, but I'm not privy to why SKF said that. My best guess is they are scared of some grease ingredients not playing nicely with their seal compounds and the safest way is to say "no grease".

We know oil gets up there because any seal failure quickly bleeds oil.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I just got a reply from Hayes. Guess it's just a waiting game for their fix....several weeks away for the solution.

I'm going to have to put a 51mm offset on a bike designed for a 42 or 44mm offset fork in the meantime for my bike trip.....something is likely to explode I know lol


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> It's odd to me too, but I'm not privy to why SKF said that. My best guess is they are scared of some grease ingredients not playing nicely with their seal compounds and the safest way is to say "no grease".


"My fork died in three rides" - Every Mezzer customer

"But did your seals die" - SKF

Only joking...


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> Manitou wants me to send my fork in for the loose bottom out bumpers:
> 
> _"The bottomout bumpers shouldn't be loose. It sounds like your fork will have to come in for warranty work. Would you like us to set up an RA?"_
> 
> So I guess this is a bigger issue than re-seating with a dowel?


That sucks. I wonder why they'd want it to go back for something seemingly so trivial? There was nothing to suggest there was anything special about the way the bumpers are seated. Unless something is out of spec size wise or they were supposed to be bonded in place. The one I reseated was still in place when I last opened the fork so I'm just going to leave it for now. If it starts coming away from the bottom again I'll decide what to do then.

As for grease on the seals or not, I'm going to try with them just oiled and if the stiction is too much will go back to greasing them. It did notice that the seals don't seem to be as tight as on other forks I've had so maybe they think the grease will drag too much dirt into the seal.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

trail-blazer said:


> That sucks. I wonder why they'd want it to go back for something seemingly so trivial? There was nothing to suggest there was anything special about the way the bumpers are seated. Unless something is out of spec size wise or they were supposed to be bonded in place. The one I reseated was still in place when I last opened the fork so I'm just going to leave it for now. If it starts coming away from the bottom again I'll decide what to do then.
> 
> As for grease on the seals or not, I'm going to try with them just oiled and if the stiction is too much will go back to greasing them. It did notice that the seals don't seem to be as tight as on other forks I've had so maybe they think the grease will drag too much dirt into the seal.


I'm not sure what the deal is with the bumpers but they're pretty insistent to get it back for repair even after I questioned if the fix was beyond the scope of a competent home mechanic. It's going back, I don't want to risk damaging the lowers if they feel it's serious enough to send in.

Good luck with the oil on the seals. I got them about as wet as possible with the Motorex semi-bath and it wasn't even close. Even if the seals last half as long due to some materials interaction issue I'll take the performance of slick honey.

I'll be curious to see how Manitou lubes from the factory if they actually test both methods.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

*Set up Help*

Hi Folks

Looking for some setup help on my mezzer. Its on a 2019 stumpy evo 29 set at 160. I live in the white mountains in NH and my riding is STEEP and rough generally speaking with long descents, 2000' at a time more or less. Very similar to BC conditions, we are kinda like an east coast squamish, rocky, rooty, steep and steeper.

Anyway, I'm coming off a fox 36 with a luftkappe, which I loved.

This is how I have my mezzer set up, basically according to the sticker on the fork. Im 180 lbs kitted and ride aggressively, race enduro occasionally.

Started at 52 main, IRT 78, 4 LSC clicks (From open) , none of High (open) and rebound right in the middle.

My impressions: Fork is stiff and tracks amazing!! Sits very high in its travel and has a great midstroke support for blasting steeps. Feels really good at mid speed or low speed in the steep.

When it gets rough and fast, or with high frequency I am getting too much feedback. I keep getting kicked off line. My thought is that the initial stroke is not supple enough, as this is what it feels like.

I am also using full travel easily. Don't feel a bottom out, which is awesome and I am assuming that is the HBO circuit doing its job.
The trail I've been testing on I typically did not come close to bottom with my fox, Id have at least an inch of safety travel left which I kinda like as sometimes I mess up and need that last inch.

Anyway, my fox settings were: 
80psi, 3 clicks LSC low from open, zero clicks HSC, LSR & HSR right in the middle, no volume spacers with the luftkappe and the fork felt great.

I'm looking for an initially more supple beginning stroke, as I am getting too much feedback and more arm pump on long runs. If this was the fox id subtract a few psi and add a spacer. What should my approach be with the mezzer? I need it more supple without sacrificing midstoke support for the steeps and am nervous about bottom out.

Thanks in advance, awesome info in this thread!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> I'm not sure what the deal is with the bumpers but they're pretty insistent to get it back for repair even after I questioned if the fix was beyond the scope of a competent home mechanic. It's going back, I don't want to risk damaging the lowers if they feel it's serious enough to send in.
> 
> Good luck with the oil on the seals. I got them about as wet as possible with the Motorex semi-bath and it wasn't even close. Even if the seals last half as long due to some materials interaction issue I'll take the performance of slick honey.
> 
> I'll be curious to see how Manitou lubes from the factory if they actually test both methods.


Anything out of the ordinary they'll want it back to see how/why it happened.



elsinore said:


> Hi Folks
> 
> Looking for some setup help on my mezzer. Its on a 2019 stumpy evo 29 set at 160. I live in the white mountains in NH and my riding is STEEP and rough generally speaking with long descents, 2000' at a time more or less. Very similar to BC conditions, we are kinda like an east coast squamish, rocky, rooty, steep and steeper.
> 
> ...


Go softer, a lot softer. Keep your IRT at about 80, drop main pressure to 30-35 and see how it rides. Beyond a car-park test.

Basically let the spring get out the way and let damping do it's job.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Anything out of the ordinary they'll want it back to see how/why it happened.
> 
> Go softer, a lot softer. Keep your IRT at about 80, drop main pressure to 30-35 and see how it rides. Beyond a car-park test.
> 
> Basically let the spring get out the way and let damping do it's job.


Wow, that's soft!

That low of a main pressure won't cause the fork to dive or bottom to easy?
Should I be adding damping past the 4 clicks of LSC that I'm currently running?

Thanks Dougal!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Wow, that's soft!
> 
> That low of a main pressure won't cause the fork to dive or bottom to easy?
> Should I be adding damping past the 4 clicks of LSC that I'm currently running?
> ...


It's a low pressure, but it's a big stanchion and a shorter chamber size (before IRT). So it's not directly comparable to other forks.

The spring rate needs to be sufficient to keep the fork responding fast enough (frequency) and that's about all. The damping does the job of controlling dive and bottoming. You've got HBO as well to deal with bottom-out.

It's taking a while to wean people off their usual F36 and Pike/Lyrik tuning methods of leaving damping dials open and relying heavily on air pressure.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Go softer, a lot softer. Keep your IRT at about 80, drop main pressure to 30-35 and see how it rides. Beyond a car-park test.
> 
> Basically let the spring get out the way and let damping do it's job.





Dougal said:


> It's a low pressure, but it's a big stanchion and a shorter chamber size (before IRT). So it's not directly comparable to other forks.
> 
> The spring rate needs to be sufficient to keep the fork responding fast enough (frequency) and that's about all. The damping does the job of controlling dive and bottoming. You've got HBO as well to deal with bottom-out.
> 
> It's taking a while to wean people off their usual F36 and Pike/Lyrik tuning methods of leaving damping dials open and relying heavily on air pressure.


How can Manitou get their pressure range so different to what you recommend? You are recommending a pressure that doesn't even register on Manitou's chart for a 160 travel Mezzer...lowest is 40/70psi for a 54kg/120lb rider!

Earlier you recommended starting at bodyweight for IRT and about 60% of that for the main pressure....now you are saying a main pressure under bodyweight and an IRT of approx 38% of that.

Any wonder people can't get them set up easily lol

I realise it's a very variable thing getting your own preferences dialled into suspension but surely the recommendations for air pressure can't vary so wildly for people at the same weight? +/- 15psi perhaps but 30..


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The 37mm stanchion likely only brings about 13-15% more piston area then a 35mm stanchion. Should correlate to similar pressure difference too?

180lb rider
Manitou - 56psi/83psi
Lyrik w/Runt - 68psi/100psi

14% less on the Lyrik would be 59psi/87psi.

Suggesting 30-35psi seems insanely low. Have to ask, what's the SAG at that point? 40%?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> How can Manitou get their pressure range so different to what you recommend? You are recommending a pressure that doesn't even register on Manitou's chart for a 160 travel Mezzer...lowest is 40/70psi for a 54kg/120lb rider!
> 
> Earlier you recommended starting at bodyweight for IRT and about 60% of that for the main pressure....now you are saying a main pressure under bodyweight and an IRT of approx 38% of that.
> 
> ...


I was puzzled by that too. He said this to me earlier when i bugged him.


Dougal said:


> There's a lot of difference in our setups, besides weight you're on a hardtail which promotes a forward riding position because that's your only suspension. I ride FS which keeps my weight further back and suspension balance.
> 
> Galbraith looks like my home trails but with loamier dirt and softer/more rounded rocks. I'm not convinced his terrain is an outlier for setup that changes the physics of mass, spring and damper tuning.
> 
> https://www.trailforks.com/region/alexandra/photos/


For me, i try to ride 'over the front' on all my bikes; push the fork though and let the rear end follow. I rode long travel hardtails exclusively for my first 5 years in this sport, and you have to. The forks on my hardtails end up with a very similar tune to my FS bikes, assuming similar travel. When i had hardtail and FS bikes with old lyrik RC2DHs, i accidentally ran them identically.

It sounded to me like dougal doesn't have my hardon for riding over the front, and may prefer a more neutral riding style like we used before long/low/slack became de-rigeur. If that's the case and he doesn't ride like a bucket of hammers rolling down a hill (like me), then his set up makes a ton of sense.

So yeah, i thought it was a difference in setting up for different riding style. But i could be miles off.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> How can Manitou get their pressure range so different to what you recommend? You are recommending a pressure that doesn't even register on Manitou's chart for a 160 travel Mezzer...lowest is 40/70psi for a 54kg/120lb rider!
> 
> Earlier you recommended starting at bodyweight for IRT and about 60% of that for the main pressure....now you are saying a main pressure under bodyweight and an IRT of approx 38% of that.
> 
> ...


To be frank, I'm still working this out. After riding a Mattoc with IRT for several seasons I'm still experimenting with that one too.
Last ride on the Mattoc was 35/85psi and I was very happy with it. I used to run 40/60, then 40/80.

Next chance I get will be 30/90. Gotta find the limits before you can find the sweet spot.



mike156 said:


> The 37mm stanchion likely only brings about 13-15% more piston area then a 35mm stanchion. Should correlate to similar pressure difference too?
> 
> 180lb rider
> Manitou - 56psi/83psi
> ...


About 30-40mm sag in the attack position, less when seated, topped out when climbing. Air chamber volume matters hugely in air spring rates, piston area is only one factor.

In the attack position I have like 30kg vertical on the fork which with a 65 degree head angle resolves to 27kg on the fork springs.

It feels like people are measuring sag as the indicator ring travel when they get on and off. 
Sag only matters for geometry.



scottzg said:


> I was puzzled by that too. He said this to me earlier when i bugged him.
> 
> For me, i try to ride 'over the front' on all my bikes; push the fork though and let the rear end follow. I rode long travel hardtails exclusively for my first 5 years in this sport, and you have to. The forks on my hardtails end up with a very similar tune to my FS bikes, assuming similar travel. When i had hardtail and FS bikes with old lyrik RC2DHs, i accidentally ran them identically.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't ride hardtail over the front. I ride a long and slack full suspension.

But I'm still riding spring rates and natural frequencies which are firmer/faster than road going sports cars.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Yeah I don't ride hardtail over the front. I ride a long and slack full suspension.


As i said, with a forward riding style i don't think hardtail vs. full suspension makes any difference, at least for the spring. I've had the same model/travel fork on 2 bikes that had the ~same front end dimensions, and was alternating between them.

Totally YMMV, which was the point.



Dougal said:


> But I'm still riding spring rates and natural frequencies which are firmer/faster than road going sports cars.


Road going sports car suspension rides the bumpstops when they corner or brake.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scottzg said:


> As i said, with a forward riding style i don't think hardtail vs. full suspension makes any difference, at least for the spring. I've had the same model/travel fork on 2 bikes that had the ~same front end dimensions, and was alternating between them.
> 
> Totally YMMV, which was the point.
> 
> Road going sports car suspension rides the bumpstops when they corner or brake.


There's no-one riding hardtail in my riding groups any more.

I've never been in any car that's hit the bump-stops cornering or braking. Sports car, not race car.
We also have about 3x more suspension travel before hitting the bump-stops.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> There's no-one riding hardtail in my riding groups any more.
> 
> I've never been in any car that's hit the bump-stops cornering or braking. Sports car, not race car.
> We also have about 3x more suspension travel before hitting the bump-stops.


I give up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scottzg said:


> I give up.


I'm trying to understand your view and explain the differences. Kinda hard with responses like that.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I'm trying to understand your view and explain the differences. Kinda hard with responses like that.


Ok, ok. I've been reading your replies as intentionally obtuse.

Ignoring cars and hardtails. And manitou. Not relevant.

I thought it was possible that you were exploring much softer rates because you rode FS much more on the rear wheel (or centered over the BB) than someone like myself. The front end wasn't falling through the travel thanks to being able to run a really digressive compression. Whereas someone like me, who tries to carry as much weight as possible on the front of the bike, would need a bunch more spring. And probably more conventional damping behavior, but i haven't put much thought in to it.

I don't know, was just throwing it out there as a possible explanation for the variance.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

I ride in North California rock rooty terrain that is step, punchy ups and downs with some smooth tracks mixed in. I weigh 160 lbs and am running my fork at 160mm currently. I am running 35/45 and have been HSC at full neg and the LSC at one off full neg. The rebound is at three off of full neg. This was done to see if I could get to bounce on seated climbs and get into the HBO of the damper. It road super smooth, and didnt have a noticable amount of bouncing while I was seated and climbing. By the way it has about 30% sag. When standing it was alittle soft at about 40% sag and little bounce while sprinting. On the Down the HBO prevented it from buttoming out, and I was pretty sure today was the day I would do it. The pressure I went for was to make it more linear through the whole travel. But I continue to play with it, today I had unreal grip in every condition. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

scottzg said:


> Ok, ok. I've been reading your replies as intentionally obtuse.
> 
> Ignoring cars and hardtails. And manitou. Not relevant.
> 
> ...


Seated I'm 65% on the back wheel. In the attack position I'm 55% on the rear wheel. I have scaled several of my bike setups to check these numbers.

What weight split do you run?

Sag wise. I've got a 170mm Mattoc on right now with 35/85psi and it's 30-40mm sag seated and 90mm if I put my full weight on the bars.

So riding down the steepest stuff with weight only on the front, it rides about halfway in.

Why do you think spring-rates don't scale with weight?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

My Highspeed adjuster has a little bit of play. The screw on the lsc ist already tightened..... Solution?


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Can you explain the benefits of having 90mm sag? I will say that having 52% sag on a fork is for not understandable.

First you will alter the geometry of the bike, when it dives so much in the front that you end up with a bike designed for 170mm having a ride height at 120mm, that normally should be around 140mm? 20mm difference is a lot.

My Fox 36 is not even close, and I am probably running about 22% sag with a 75lb/in spring on my Smashpot. It is buttery smooth on the 170mm set up, and the initial feel is as super plush as my EXT Storia V3 custom made with negative spring for the Geometron G1. I can take up 2 meters drop with not harsh bottom out, still it manage to be plush.

So if I was going to have a 60lb/spring or even softer on my 170mm Fox 36 to get the approx the as soft spring, the fork would be moving all over the place.

And not to speak about pedal strikes, like it is a few already, with 170mm crank arms.



Dougal said:


> Seated I'm 65% on the back wheel. In the attack position I'm 55% on the rear wheel. I have scaled several of my bike setups to check these numbers.
> 
> What weight split do you run?
> 
> ...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Can you explain the benefits of having 90mm sag? I will say that having 52% sag on a fork is for not understandable.


Suggest you go back and read what I wrote again. It doesn't have 90mm sag.

It compresses 90mm when I am sitting on the handlebars. Sag in the attack position is 30-40mm. Those measurements were on my Mattoc at 35/85psi.

My Mezzer at 35/55psi has 40mm sag with me in the attack position (less seated) and compresses 80mm when I am sitting on the handlebars.



bansaiman said:


> My Highspeed adjuster has a little bit of play. The screw on the lsc ist already tightened..... Solution?


There is a locknut for the HSC adjuster, remove the lSC adjuster and you'll find it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

30-40 mm sag with how much travel, 160mm?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> 30-40 mm sag with how much travel, 160mm?


170mm.

40/170mm is 23%. I have no idea why everyone is getting so excited about running sag in the perfectly normal range!

It's almost like IRT greatly reduces your first stage air chamber volume so lower pressures still give the usual spring-rates compared to conventional air springs.........


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

What do you mean by 1 off full NEG? From fully closed or from full open compression?


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Ganderson said:


> I'm not sure what the deal is with the bumpers but they're pretty insistent to get it back for repair even after I questioned if the fix was beyond the scope of a competent home mechanic. It's going back, I don't want to risk damaging the lowers if they feel it's serious enough to send in.
> 
> Good luck with the oil on the seals. I got them about as wet as possible with the Motorex semi-bath and it wasn't even close. Even if the seals last half as long due to some materials interaction issue I'll take the performance of slick honey.
> 
> I'll be curious to see how Manitou lubes from the factory if they actually test both methods.


I adjusted the travel on my brand new Mezzer today and the bumpers have also been rolling around in the lowers. Does anyone know if the tapered side is supposed to be top or bottom? My guess is top since otherwise the taper will just sit in the middle of the splines in the bottom of the lowers not providing anything regarding bottom out damping. Also the top of the taper is the same diameter as the uppers.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

With this setup, how much compression from closed do you use? Just for an impression.
And do you ride steep stuff with larger steps as well?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> With this setup, how much compression from closed do you use? Just for an impression.
> And do you ride steep stuff with larger steps as well?


I'm running LSC mostly closed.

Yes I ride steep stuff with step downs. That's why I run more compression damping than most. Bouncing down rock steps on a tight air spring with no useful damping isn't fun at all.

I rode last night with 30/60psi in my Mezzer. But it was an XC loop on stoney ground.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I'm running LSC mostly closed.
> 
> Yes I ride steep stuff with step downs. That's why I run more compression damping than most. Bouncing down rock steps on a tight air spring with no useful damping isn't fun at all.
> 
> I rode last night with 30/60psi in my Mezzer. But it was an XC loop on stoney ground.


Ok. 
And do you use hsc at all?

Because many forks will become very harsh in the rough stuff with prestressed shims and often a reshim is the better solution.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Ok.
> And do you use hsc at all?
> 
> Because many forks will become very harsh in the rough stuff with prestressed shims and often a reshim is the better solution.


I don't use HSC. Because adding HSC with LSC closed (or almost closed) creates a platform effect which doesn't work nicely with the way I ride and the terrain I like to ride.

Some XC type riders like platform effect. It was all the rage in 2005!

Those on smoother terrain hitting harder (i.e. jump park) can run more HSC and less LSC without harshness and the lower support is usually made up in higher spring rates.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

*Negative air Volume*















sti

This is probably a dum question, but is it possible to deliberately increase the Neagative air volume by pushing on the bars with the pump attached? 
I am assuming that this would make the initial stroke more supple, as this is how the Luftkappe supposedly works..

Toying with the idea of trying this as I am overforked by 10mm as is so losing 5mm of travel or so is no big deal. 
I am really digging this fork. Tried experimenting with different air pressures as Dougal suggested and settled around 50ish psi main and 92IRT. Still trying to get the off the top feel a bit more supple. Ill pull the fork apart and slick honey the seals next as I just went with oil in there.

Thanks again


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I think try it and see how it feels?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The only issue is how do you consistently set the height when trying to change the negative side volume. Hard to tune if you aren't consistent in your process.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

more negative volume in mezzer is not needed


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

mike156 said:


> The only issue is how do you consistently set the height when trying to change the negative side volume. Hard to tune if you aren't consistent in your process.


Extend fork fully
Measure off X distance and mark it with a piece of tape on the stanchion
Attach pump and set pressure, then compress fork to the tape mark
Remove pump


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

aerius said:


> Extend fork fully
> Measure off X distance and mark it with a piece of tape on the stanchion
> Attach pump and set pressure, then compress fork to the tape mark
> Remove pump


Exactly, that part is easy. 
Just wondering if there will be any performance difference with suppleness of the Mezzer. The Luftkappe made a huge difference in my 36.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Probably not, because the air spring just has been designed new and I think the engineers had their thoughts asManitou is not like Fox and wants to divide a new improvement over 4 years to be able to sell every year a new fork. 
My mezzer is very supple anyway. What is the problem with yours?


----------



## shmity (Oct 6, 2015)

elsinore said:


> View attachment 1290121
> 
> 
> View attachment 1290121
> ...


Its not clear from the post you quoted but the fork will stay at the stroke you disconnect the pump (ie connect shock pump, push fork down 20mm, disconnect shock pump, fork stays compressed 20mm). So yes you adjust the ratio of + and - chambers, but you are also changing the travel. If you are "over forked" at 140mm of travel then you probably should have gone with a mattoc.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

shmity said:


> Its not clear from the post you quoted but the fork will stay at the stroke you disconnect the pump (ie connect shock pump, push fork down 20mm, disconnect shock pump, fork stays compressed 20mm). So yes you adjust the ratio of + and - chambers, but you are also changing the travel. If you are "over forked" at 140mm of travel then you probably should have gone with a mattoc.


That is all understood, and I have the Mezzer at 160 on a stumpy evo 29 so the HA is around 63. I could lose 5-8mm without effecting the geo in a negative way at all.

All in all, I love how this fork feels. It's gotten better as its broken in as well, its just not quite as supple off the top as the Luftkappe'd 36, but beats it in almost every other category besides maybe high frequency chatter. I may try to overfill the neg air and report back, but the more I ride it the happier I am with its performance. Not going back to the 36 any time soon!


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Is there a way to tell if the HBO is correctly functioning? I can only compare the Mezzer HBO to my Smashpot in another fork and the Smashpot is silent and fuss free when I hit bottom out whereas the Mezzer sounds like I'm pinging aluminium rims when I hit bottom out. Anyone know if this sound and function is normal?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> Is there a way to tell if the HBO is correctly functioning? I can only compare the Mezzer HBO to my Smashpot in another fork and the Smashpot is silent and fuss free when I hit bottom out whereas the Mezzer sounds like I'm pinging aluminium rims when I hit bottom out. Anyone know if this sound and function is normal?


Are you pinging aluminium rims?

Mine is quiet (not silent though) and smooth riding. I can certainly feel the engagement of it with the damper out on the bench.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

No dangeroussounding noise here. Did not here anything at all and felt smooth onthose occasions with the o ring pushed up completely


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Are you pinging aluminium rims?
> 
> Mine is quiet (not silent though) and smooth riding. I can certainly feel the engagement of it with the damper out on the bench.


I'm running carbon wheels and don't believe I'm hitting them. On the bench cycling the damper by hand the end of stroke is very obvious too.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

still no news about bushing issues?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

ghostbiker said:


> still no news about bushing issues?


I got an email from Hayes 3 weeks ago saying the solution was still several weeks away. Fingers crossed it's not too far away.


----------



## bike_futurist (Nov 12, 2018)

is it only that people mostly report just negative experiences or is the fork a bit flawed?


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

bike_futurist said:


> is it only that people mostly report just negative experiences or is the fork a bit flawed?


If you have read the whole thread you wouldn´t ask this question. So give it a shot.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

ghostbiker said:


> If you have read the whole thread you wouldn´t ask this question. So give it a shot.


And if you don't want to waste your time sifting through this whole thread, the answer is the only unhappy folks are the ones with defective or improperly assembled forks.

The Mezzer is awesome.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm surprised when any first run anything actually works. :lol: 

That sucks that manitou is having some growing pains on a brand new chassis with brand new everything. 

I'm a die-hard manitou fan, but I'm also realistic. RS had endless seal failures on first run pikes. Fox has had a myriad of spring issues on first runs (and seals, and dampers, and anodizing, and creaky crowns etc). 

If you want the latest and greatest, you're doing the QC and guinea pig work until the company fully sorts it. 

I still cant get over how good my mattoc is... but its the last run of the first version. Thing was perfect out of the box.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

bike_futurist said:


> is it only that people mostly report just negative experiences or is the fork a bit flawed?


The mezzer is awesome, they have a problem with some batches, it can happen in a new product.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Mine runs great.
Still not settled on final setup, but am already very satisfied. Tried higher and much lower pressures than recommended by manitou or calculated via DOUGALs recommendations for 89 kilo in riding gear. Probably going to end higher with both pressures. But it is really smooth, thus it is easily possible to do so.
I ride flowy as well as steep techy stuff with larger steps. With that setup i can cover everything. It feels definitively more secure to go with higher o
Pressure in the main chamber and less lsc when going wild than lower than recommendet pressure and more lsc hsc. Just my 2 cents


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bike_futurist said:


> is it only that people mostly report just negative experiences or is the fork a bit flawed?


Mine has been excellent and has even had some runs under a 200kg rider to check everything was solid.

The bushings are an issue for some, still not sure if this is a batch or size issue and Manitou haven't yet issued their fix. My 27" Mezzer bushings are good.

Setup can be involved as these have more adjustment than any other fork and the adjusters actually work. I've got my trail riding setup sorted. Now to record that and turn it into a gravity setup and see how that differs.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I read the article and all the comments - and returned to them numerous times to read the updates.
> 
> It's very entertaining (in a dark way) to observe how some of the posters get so twisted out of shape over a review. Some people are simply not happy unless everyone else agrees with their opinion.
> 
> ...


I just came across this one. It's kinda funny how people think my livelihood depends on selling Manitou product.

My livelihood actually comes from tuning and servicing mass market Fox and Rockshox product.

Yes I am Manitou's #1 fan and I'm completely open about that. I'm also a suspension engineer, test rider and have a direct line to Manitou engineers. So I've got a fair bit of info to write about.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Mine has been excellent and has even had some runs under a 200kg rider to check everything was solid.
> 
> The bushings are an issue for some, still not sure if this is a batch or size issue and Manitou haven't yet issued their fix. My 27" Mezzer bushings are good.
> 
> Setup can be involved as these have more adjustment than any other fork and the adjusters actually work. I've got my trail riding setup sorted. Now to record that and turn it into a gravity setup and see how that differs.


Mine has also been excellent, with the only issues being the dry seals and IRT shaft.

My understanding is that the bushing issue turned out to be combination of multiple issues with vendors, so the fix is taking a little longer than originally expected. I haven't asked for any updates or been very active on here lately for personal reasons. If I hear anything I can say publicly I will make sure to post it


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

I love mine as well, it had its problem early on but has really proven to be great.

If could adjust the firmness of the HBO I would be 100% percent happy versus the 95% I am currently at.

ANyone have any tricks with the HBO? Any?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I've got mine set to 160 but I have a new bike on the way and will be taking it up to 170. I have minor bushing slop but am not sure I'd want it to get much worse. Any idea if stretching it out another 10mm will have a big effect on the amount of play?


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Do you want more or less hbo, curious.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

croakies said:


> Do you want more or less hbo, curious.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I would like to have less HBO. Its my opinion that I would like to use the IRT versus what I have going on now.

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adodero said:


> I've got mine set to 160 but I have a new bike on the way and will be taking it up to 170. I have minor bushing slop but am not sure I'd want it to get much worse. Any idea if stretching it out another 10mm will have a big effect on the amount of play?


No problem at all. Stanchions are constant diameter outside so extending the fork makes no difference to bushing clearance.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Does anyone have firsthand experience of info if stock Mezzer works well for us Featherweights without having to resort to any additional upgrades or mods? I am 145 pounds (66 kg) and had to upgrade my current Pike RCT3 with Smashpot coil to make it work for me. I still have to run compression fully open, but adding Smashpot made huge difference, love it. I am now building up a 29er bike from scratch and torn to either buy the Mezzer or buy used Lyrik RC2 or used Fox 36 Grip2 and then drop in my Smashpot coil. Currently leaning towards used Fox 36 Grip2 plus my Smashpot, but not sure. Any thoughts or words of wisdom?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

fizzywater said:


> Does anyone have firsthand experience of info if stock Mezzer works well for us Featherweights without having to resort to any additional upgrades or mods? I am 145 pounds (66 kg) and had to upgrade my current Pike RCT3 with Smashpot coil to make it work for me. I still have to run compression fully open, but adding Smashpot made huge difference, love it. I am now building up a 29er bike from scratch and torn to either buy the Mezzer or buy used Lyrik RC2 or used Fox 36 Grip2 and then drop in my Smashpot coil. Currently leaning towards used Fox 36 Grip2 plus my Smashpot, but not sure. Any thoughts or words of wisdom?


If you have found a good set up with the Smashpot and are happy with it then that is your answer, replicate it and continue being happy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fizzywater said:


> Does anyone have firsthand experience of info if stock Mezzer works well for us Featherweights without having to resort to any additional upgrades or mods? I am 145 pounds (66 kg) and had to upgrade my current Pike RCT3 with Smashpot coil to make it work for me. I still have to run compression fully open, but adding Smashpot made huge difference, love it. I am now building up a 29er bike from scratch and torn to either buy the Mezzer or buy used Lyrik RC2 or used Fox 36 Grip2 and then drop in my Smashpot coil. Currently leaning towards used Fox 36 Grip2 plus my Smashpot, but not sure. Any thoughts or words of wisdom?


66kg is featherweight? I'm 70kg and absolutely stoked with it. No upgrades or mods. But you have a ridiculous number of tuning combinations.

What rate coil do you have in the smashpot?


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

robmac48 said:


> If you have found a good set up with the Smashpot and are happy with it then that is your answer, replicate it and continue being happy.


Fair enough, I should have provided more context. Smashpot is in the Pike on my 27.5 bike, but I am building up a new 29er bike, so will need new fork for that one. I am very happy on the spring side of my Pike/Smashpot combo, but compression damping on the Pike not so much. I would like to run more LSC for more overall stability and less brake dive, but when I use LSC on the Pike, it doesn't do much in terms of less brake dive and the ride gets a lot more harsh over the entire travel range, so I run LSC fully open. The saving grace is the HBO of the Smashpot, which works brilliantly, as it alllows me to run LSC fully open, but prevents bottom out for bigger drops or jumps.



Dougal said:


> 66kg is featherweight? I'm 70kg and absolutely stoked with it. No upgrades or mods. But you have a ridiculous number of tuning combinations.
> 
> What rate coil do you have in the smashpot?


I have 35 and 40 rated coil. Currently using the 35 in my 160mm fork with 8 clicks of HBO from fully closed, but may use the 40 coil in 150mm fork for my new 29er...unless I get the Mezzer.

Featherweight...was using a reference to combat sports. In MMA, the upper weight limit for Featherweight division is 145 pounds.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fizzywater said:


> Fair enough, I should have provided more context. Smashpot is in the Pike on my 27.5 bike, but I am building up a new 29er bike, so will need new fork for that one. I am very happy on the spring side of my Pike/Smashpot combo, but compression damping on the Pike not so much. I would like to run more LSC for more overall stability and less brake dive, but when I use LSC on the Pike, it doesn't do much in terms of less brake dive and the ride gets a lot more harsh over the entire travel range, so I run LSC fully open. The saving grace is the HBO of the Smashpot, which works brilliantly, as it alllows me to run LSC fully open, but prevents bottom out for bigger drops or jumps.
> 
> I have 35 and 40 rated coil. Currently using the 35 in my 160mm fork with 8 clicks of HBO from fully closed, but may use the 40 coil in 150mm fork for my new 29er...unless I get the Mezzer.
> 
> Featherweight...was using a reference to combat sports. In MMA, the upper weight limit for Featherweight division is 145 pounds.


Better get in the sauna. 66kg is 145.5lb!

35 lb/in is your correct spring rate for normal riding. 40lb/in would work for the more energetic and gravity driven side. I'm running a Mezzer at 35/55psi (I think) at the moment and can run the range of LSC depending on what I'm doing.

The Mezzer has a completely different ride to all of the Charger dampers. It has a lot more control (no wallow) and acheives that without harshness.


----------



## Bluegill (Mar 28, 2018)

Working on a new build and just picked up a 27.5 Mezzer set up for 160mm travel. I'm trying to decide between 180mm or 203mm front rotor size for Shimano XT brakes & rotors. I see that the Mezzer disc brake mount is listed as "post mount 180mm". Does this mean that if I go with 203mm do I need the following Shimano adapter:

SM-MA-F203 (180mm to 203mm), Post/Post Front/Rear

Just want to double-check. I hate getting all set to build and then getting stalled by one little part.


----------



## lachman (Jan 29, 2019)

Bluegill said:


> Working on a new build and just picked up a 27.5 Mezzer set up for 160mm travel. I'm trying to decide between 180mm or 203mm front rotor size for Shimano XT brakes & rotors. I see that the Mezzer disc brake mount is listed as "post mount 180mm". Does this mean that if I go with 203mm do I need the following Shimano adapter:
> 
> SM-MA-F203 (180mm to 203mm), Post/Post Front/Rear
> 
> Just want to double-check. I hate getting all set to build and then getting stalled by one little part.


This is correct.


----------



## Bluegill (Mar 28, 2018)

Thank you!


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Looks like I have the bottom out bumper issue also, I dropped my lowers to do a travel change and they were loose on both sides. Is there any fix for this outside of replacing the lowers?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Adodero said:


> Looks like I have the bottom out bumper issue also, I dropped my lowers to do a travel change and they were loose on both sides. Is there any fix for this outside of replacing the lowers?


According to Manitou they have to be sent in. Mine are there now for this issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Wow, that was quick.

Shockcraft just received a shipment of replacement Mezzer lower legs.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Dougal — curious what is causing the loose bottoming out bumpers? And is it a manufacturing issue? QC? Design?


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Wow, that was quick.
> 
> Shockcraft just received a shipment of replacement Mezzer lower legs.


Good news. Hopefully I can buy a Mezzer soon.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dec 15 is hopefully the ship date for the warranty parts (lower legs)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kwapik said:


> Dougal - curious what is causing the loose bottoming out bumpers? And is it a manufacturing issue? QC? Design?


I haven't seen that and I haven't had a chance to take a look myself.

Been rather busy lately. We're relocating the entire business tomorrow so the last few months have been rather distracting.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

robmac48 said:


> Dec 15 is hopefully the ship date for the warranty parts (lower legs)


Is this referring to you personally or generally for Haynes? And is this to fix the bushing issues or loose bottom out bumpers.

My bumpers were loose out of the box when I dropped the lowers to change the travel. I just reseated them with dowel (this was before any mention of this issue requiring forks to go back for warranty) and they haven't moved since. I've ad the fork open twice since and the bumpers are still seated. So I'm wondering to just leave it or warranty the fork.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> Is this referring to you personally or generally for Haynes? And is this to fix the bushing issues or loose bottom out bumpers.
> 
> My bumpers were loose out of the box when I dropped the lowers to change the travel. I just reseated them with dowel (this was before any mention of this issue requiring forks to go back for warranty) and they haven't moved since. I've ad the fork open twice since and the bumpers are still seated. So I'm wondering to just leave it or warranty the fork.


This is the expected starting date for Hayes to start shipping lowers to whoever is on the warranty/I have a problem with my fork and have contacted Hayes list.

In relation to the bottom out bumpers, best bet would be to contact Hayes and ask them. I've reseated my bumpers a couple of times now but they do keep coming loose.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Anyone else have the top mounting tab of the mudguard break? Was fine before my ride on Saturday, after getting home I noticed it broken.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

robmac48 said:


> This is the expected starting date for Hayes to start shipping lowers to whoever is on the warranty/I have a problem with my fork and have contacted Hayes list.
> 
> In relation to the bottom out bumpers, best bet would be to contact Hayes and ask them. I've reseated my bumpers a couple of times now but they do keep coming loose.


Thanks. I'll wait till January when the weather really limits riding and then contact them and send it in if necessary.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Is this referring to you personally or generally for Haynes? And is this to fix the bushing issues or loose bottom out bumpers.
> 
> My bumpers were loose out of the box when I dropped the lowers to change the travel. I just reseated them with dowel (this was before any mention of this issue requiring forks to go back for warranty) and they haven't moved since. I've ad the fork open twice since and the bumpers are still seated. So I'm wondering to just leave it or warranty the fork.


Keep in mind Warranty serves two purposes. 
First is to get the customer what they paid for.
Second is to get anything weird back so it can be checked out and see if anything needs done in design or manufacture to stop it.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Keep in mind Warranty serves two purposes.
> First is to get the customer what they paid for.
> Second is to get anything weird back so it can be checked out and see if anything needs done in design or manufacture to stop it.


Absolutely! And hopefuly Hayes do return faulty items to their engineers for analysis.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Absolutely! And hopefuly Hayes do return faulty items to their engineers for analysis.


Sure do. Most of their Engineers are in Wisconsin. Most of the time (they travel a bit).


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal,

How does reducing travel with a shock pump (decreasing positive air volume) change the function/feel of the Mezzer?

Could someone realistically use this function to build a mixed use bike, for example:

Mezzer 29" set at 170mm with 27.5" wheels (enduro), then reducing to 140mm with 29" wheels (trail).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dougal,
> 
> How does reducing travel with a shock pump (decreasing positive air volume) change the function/feel of the Mezzer?
> 
> ...


When you reduce travel you get more negative volume and less positive. So the fork spring becomes naturally more progressive.
Slightly more so with the pump trick compared to spacers as the spacers occupy some negative volume.

You could do exactly what you propose with a 29" Mezzer. But you may find that a well setup fork doesn't need multiple setups.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> When you reduce travel you get more negative volume and less positive. So the fork spring becomes naturally more progressive.
> Slightly more so with the pump trick compared to spacers as the spacers occupy some negative volume.
> 
> You could do exactly what you propose with a 29" Mezzer. But you may find that a well setup fork doesn't need multiple setups.


Nice, thanks for that info, I'm leaning that way for my Shred esp if I got to Mega chainstays and more travel.

Also thanks for feedback on my regressive suspension question, I ended up going back to a DPX2, feels just as good as the Bomber CR Coil, but lighter and easier to tweak.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

For anyone needing to send their Mezzer in for repair...

Manitou have had mine for a little over 3 weeks for the loose bottom out bumper issue. It’s been tough getting an update out of them but just got a quick message that they are waiting on parts that are due 12/15. I would assume that that would be the bumpers or lowers.. I dunno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

I can't understand what's the problem with these loose bumpers. What can happen if you use the fork like that?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

A couple more thoughts since I'm waiting for mine to come back.

Mezzer vs Lyrik RCT3 (charger 2)

At the same travel settings, I greatly prefer the way the bike handles with the Lyrik.. no question.

Now, notice I said "handles" so I'm not necessarily talking about suspension performance here. As a matter of fact, though I was still getting it dialed in I would say that the raw performance of the Mezzer suspension (damper + air spring) is superior and has more tuning potential. Of couse, this is balanced by the fact that it's more difficult to tune and is more sensitive to small adjustments making a bad setup easier to achieve IMO.

I'm pretty sure the handling differences I'm experiencing are just down to the static geometry differences between the forks + the dynamic ride characteristics affecting the bikes geo very noticeably.

I've tried both forks on 2 different frames:

GG Shred Dogg (running as Megatrail) at 170mm
Was running this frame for over a year with the Lyrik when I got the Mezzer.

SC Bronson V3 at 160mm
Got this frame after a warranty issue on the GG. Started this bike with the Mezzer, switched to the Lyrik when I sent the Mezzer in for repair.

In both cases the bikes handled better with the Lyrik. When I say "handling" I am referring to my sense of controlling the front end of the bike: steering feel, ability to change direction quickly/confidently, cornering.

There isn't much difference on paper between the forks, the mezzer has a few mm more axle to crown and a couple mm less offset. There is something drastically different about the way the forks ride it their travel however.

The Mezzer feels like it has much more support and rides a lot higher in its travel and I guess this combined with the on paper differences adds up to a significantly altered bike geometry and handling feel to me at least.

I think I'm going to drop the travel 10mm on the Mezzer when I get it back and see if this brings it around.. otherwise the Lyrik is fine.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> A couple more thoughts since I'm waiting for mine to come back.
> 
> Mezzer vs Lyrik RCT3 (charger 2)
> 
> ...


What are the offsets of each fork?

I ask because I have tested the Mezzer with both the 37mm and 44mm offsets on my Pivot Mach 6. I started with the 37mmOS (coming from a 44OS Mattoc pro) and I hated the handling. I left it on for about a month and got used it somewhat, adapting my riding style to suit the difference in handling. I then switched to a 44OS and immediately started taking huge chunks off my lap times, setting personal records on most of the trails in my area. It made a huge difference for me.

That said, bike geometry plays a big roll on which offset to run and apparently short offsets are cool right now, so itsother people have different opinions on the subject. Testing back to back, I'm not seeing the benefit to the shorter offsets though.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Mezzer is 44mm.. at least that’s what I ordered and what the box says, I haven’t measured.

Lyrik is 46mm

I was thinking offset as well but unless they shipped me the short offset version by mistake I have a hard time believing 2mm would be that noticeable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> Mezzer is 44mm.. at least that's what I ordered and what the box says, I haven't measured.
> 
> Lyrik is 46mm
> 
> ...


Yeah, I wouldnt expect 2mm to make a big difference. Interesting feedback.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

mullen119 said:


> Yeah, I wouldnt expect 2mm to make a big difference. Interesting feedback.


Well I just emailed manitou to have them verify the 44mm offset while they have it.. who knows

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

mullen119 said:


> What are the offsets of each fork?
> 
> I ask because I have tested the Mezzer with both the 37mm and 44mm offsets on my Pivot Mach 6. I started with the 37mmOS (coming from a 44OS Mattoc pro) and I hated the handling. I left it on for about a month and got used it somewhat, adapting my riding style to suit the difference in handling. I then switched to a 44OS and immediately started taking huge chunks off my lap times, setting personal records on most of the trails in my area. It made a huge difference for me.
> 
> That said, bike geometry plays a big roll on which offset to run and apparently short offsets are cool right now, so itsother people have different opinions on the subject. Testing back to back, I'm not seeing the benefit to the shorter offsets though.


What's your stem length? I found 40mm stem with 41° is great. With a 45mm stem was vague.


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

aerius said:


> Also, 4) The products which sponsored riders are using have little in common with the ones you can buy off the shelf. Let's look at Fox for instance, they accidentally admitted that they gimped their consumer forks with a stupid platform setting that actually does nothing outside of a parking lot test.
> https://www.bikemag.com/gear/components/first-ride-fox-rad-34/
> 
> At the very least, I'd bet almost all those pro forks have custom shim stack tuning which we can't get as consumers, and many of them will also have custom damper pistons, air pistons, adjustment needles, and who knows what else.


That's not how the article reads to me:

"The reason is Fox removed a preloaded shim stack, which is essentially there only to create a favorable 'parking lot feel,' so that consumers can actually feel a difference between the settings by simply pushing on the fork. *But this has no bearing on how the fork will perform during the higher shaft speeds created when riding on trail, so on race forks, it's left out.*"

It's there to make people feel good in the parking lot but doesn't seem to effect the fork on the trail.....


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

RadBartTaylor said:


> That's not how the article reads to me:
> 
> "The reason is Fox removed a preloaded shim stack, which is essentially there only to create a favorable 'parking lot feel,' so that consumers can actually feel a difference between the settings by simply pushing on the fork. *But this has no bearing on how the fork will perform during the higher shaft speeds created when riding on trail, so on race forks, it's left out.*"
> 
> It's there to make people feel good in the parking lot but doesn't seem to effect the fork on the trail.....


Do you think that the preload knows it's on the trail, so it deactivates itself?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

scottzg said:


> Do you think that the preload knows it's on the trail, so it deactivates itself?


Preloaded shim stacks are not inherently bad and can actually give excellent damping curves. Performance issues arise from heavily preloaded shim stacks, or poorly designed dampers with large orifices or poorly designed pistons.

That said, stating you tune for parking lot tests is never good, and forks that pass parking lot tests rarely pass trail tests.

Also, most sponsored riders will get the same fork everyone else gets. The handful of guys(or girls) at the top will get to ride prototype stuff, usually testing next year's forks. Those people likely have tunes that are not standard as well.


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

scottzg said:


> Do you think that the preload knows it's on the trail, so it deactivates itself?


Just going by what the article says....do you know otherwise?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

RadBartTaylor said:


> Just going by what the article says....do you know otherwise?


they're saying that the preload doesn't affect high speed compression behavior, which is true. The real takeaway is that they're tuning for parking lot testing, which is... not ideal.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RadBartTaylor said:


> That's not how the article reads to me:
> 
> "The reason is Fox removed a preloaded shim stack, which is essentially there only to create a favorable 'parking lot feel,' so that consumers can actually feel a difference between the settings by simply pushing on the fork. *But this has no bearing on how the fork will perform during the higher shaft speeds created when riding on trail, so on race forks, it's left out.*"
> 
> It's there to make people feel good in the parking lot but doesn't seem to effect the fork on the trail.....


Removing a preload shim changes the whole shape of the damper curve.

We had Fox FIT come in once with the customer complaining of extreme harshness (even worse than a 2014 Pike RC). I found the compression stack had been installed upside down which give it a lot of preload.



Ganderson said:


> A couple more thoughts since I'm waiting for mine to come back.
> 
> Mezzer vs Lyrik RCT3 (charger 2)
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if the ride heights are slightly different in the attack position. Have you had someone measure each one while you are balanced on the bike?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I'm wondering if the ride heights are slightly different in the attack position. Have you had someone measure each one while you are balanced on the bike?


No, I haven't tried measuring. Maybe I'll do this before changing the travel.

The difference feels more significant than a longer fork to me.. I've changed travel on forks a lot and pretty much know what to expect with a travel change.

I've asked Manitou to verify the offset of my unit while they have it, could just be the couple mm offset difference combined with a damper that keeps the fork much higher in it's travel than a RS fork.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

trail-blazer said:


> Anyone else have the top mounting tab of the mudguard break? Was fine before my ride on Saturday, after getting home I noticed it broken.
> 
> View attachment 1297535


Mine also broke. The first one was this top one. But I think mine broke prematurely because I transport it on my car. It resonated severely from the wind turbulence. 
It would be better with some stronger plastic and not so elastic.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

I now got my second mezzer since the first one was send back for warranty. 

On this one on one side the bottom out bumper was loose but I re-seated it. It's in place since. 

I think manitou still has issues with aluminium particles inside the lowers from assembly.
I got this issue on 3 mattocs and now on two mezzers. But I now know better and cleaned my second mezzer lowers thoroughly before I rode it.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

lukam said:


> Mine also broke. The first one was this top one. But I think mine broke prematurely because I transport it on my car. It resonated severely from the wind turbulence.
> It would be better with some stronger plastic and not so elastic.


I think that may have caused mine to break too. Last weekend I noticed how the wind was pushing up the front of the mudguard pretty hard when the bike was on the rack (1Up). Can't say for sure if that caused it to tear the tab off or not but beefing that area up would make sense.

For now I've just re-secured the top part using a large flat washer under the bolt to clamp it to the crown.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ordered.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Ordered.


Cool! Hope you find yourself as psyched with it as i have been. It's the best fork i've ever used, and i've owned a bunch of retuned/custom damped ones.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I will just try to strengthen it a bit. Just cut a long 3cm wide piece of a black bucket and fix it on the inner side. That should stiffen it significantly and not reduce tire clearence more than two mm to the top


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

lukam said:


> I now got my second mezzer since the first one was send back for warranty.
> 
> On this one on one side the bottom out bumper was loose but I re-seated it. It's in place since.
> 
> ...


I assume, judging by the timing, you got the replacement before the new ' fixed' lowers were received at Hayes on the 16th. If not then it seems they haven't fixed the problems which would be concerning.

Aluminium particles in the lowers sounds like a basic QC oversight and an easy one to correct. I didn't notice any particles in my lowers when I opened mine up and looked inside. I didn't flush the lowers though so who knows.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Yeah I got a new one direct from the shop I purchased it as soon as hayes got my fork and inspected it.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

bansaiman said:


> I will just try to strengthen it a bit. Just cut a long 3cm wide piece of a black bucket and fix it on the inner side. That should stiffen it significantly and not reduce tire clearence more than two mm to the top


That may work as a preventative measure. You could also cut a piece of stiffer plastic in the same shape as the top tab and fit it between the top tab and screw to stiffen that area to prevent it tearing.

Hayes just need to reinforce that top tab a little more.


----------



## Evil_Bun (Sep 9, 2019)

trail-blazer said:


> Aluminium particles in the lowers sounds like a basic QC oversight and an easy one to correct. I didn't notice any particles in my lowers when I opened mine up and looked inside. I didn't flush the lowers though so who knows.


Definitely sounds like a QC oversight. I got mine back in August and opened it up to change travel. Didn't see any aluminum particles in my lowers.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Need some opinions on my Mezzer set up.

I'm 168lbs kitted up riding a Pole Evolink which is pretty slack at 64HA. My Mezzer is set at 160mm, 56 IRT, 40 Main, Reboud 6, LSC 5, HSC open. All clicks measured from closed.

When riding at lower speeds the fork seems to perform well and feels supple over roots and small rocks but when speed picks up (over 20mph) then things start feeling harsh and my hands and arms start getting a beating. I tried adjusting the LSC and HSC but that didn't help matters. It feels almost like the fork is locking out and not absorbing any of the high speed chatter at all. As far as travel is concerned it's not eating through the travel except on the bigger drops or big square edge hits.

Any suggestions on what i should be trying to adjust to improve the high speed compliance? I'm not sure it's what I'm experiencing but what does fork binding feel like?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

trail-blazer said:


> Need some opinions on my Mezzer set up.
> 
> I'm 168lbs kitted up riding a Pole Evolink which is pretty slack at 64HA. My Mezzer is set at 160mm, 56 IRT, 40 Main, Reboud 6, LSC 5, HSC open. All clicks measured from closed.
> 
> ...


What pressure are you running. Sound like too much pressure or too much rebound(packing up)


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Need some opinions on my Mezzer set up.
> 
> I'm 168lbs kitted up riding a Pole Evolink which is pretty slack at 64HA. My Mezzer is set at 160mm, 56 IRT, 40 Main, Reboud 6, LSC 5, HSC open. All clicks measured from closed.
> 
> ...


Try speeding your rebound up a little bit. Also try doing a little bit stiffer on the spring. I'm running my 27.5 @160 at 48/85.

Sounds counter intuitive, but harshness can come from a soft spring that sits too low in its travel. Not saying to go as stiff as I do, I am known to run a stiffer set up then most, but give something like 42/58 and see if it improves.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Try speeding your rebound up a little bit. Also try doing a little bit stiffer on the spring. I'm running my 27.5 @160 at 48/85.
> 
> Sounds counter intuitive, but harshness can come from a soft spring that sits too low in its travel. Not saying to go as stiff as I do, I am known to run a stiffer set up then most, but give something like 42/58 and see if it improves.


Thanks, I'll try increasing the spring rate a little. My rebound is set so the the front wheel just about leaves the ground when pushing down on the bars and letting go. I guess I can reduce it by a click to see if that helps.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Thanks, I'll try increasing the spring rate a little. My rebound is set so the the front wheel just about leaves the ground when pushing down on the bars and letting go. I guess I can reduce it by a click to see if that helps.


Methods like that for setting rebound are only good for getting you in the ballpark. They tend too be too slow in real world use for anyone that isn't a beginner. Always test and make changes on the trail if you are chasing a great set up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Need some opinions on my Mezzer set up.
> 
> I'm 168lbs kitted up riding a Pole Evolink which is pretty slack at 64HA. My Mezzer is set at 160mm, 56 IRT, 40 Main, Reboud 6, LSC 5, HSC open. All clicks measured from closed.
> 
> ...


The Mezzer is firmly damped and the LSC bypass is quite small so it forces more oil through the shims.
The stock tune suits hard riding. A bit like the Fox Grip2.

For now drop your pressures a bit and see how that helps. I think I'm running 35/55psi. But the weather and workload have been keeping me off the bike recently.


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

Is there an ETA for short offset 29" Mezzers being available again?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

no short offset 27.5's in the EU either


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> Try speeding your rebound up a little bit. Also try doing a little bit stiffer on the spring. I'm running my 27.5 @160 at 48/85.
> 
> Sounds counter intuitive, but harshness can come from a soft spring that sits too low in its travel. Not saying to go as stiff as I do, I am known to run a stiffer set up then most, but give something like 42/58 and see if it improves.





Dougal said:


> The Mezzer is firmly damped and the LSC bypass is quite small so it forces more oil through the shims.
> The stock tune suits hard riding. A bit like the Fox Grip2.
> 
> For now drop your pressures a bit and see how that helps. I think I'm running 35/55psi. But the weather and workload have been keeping me off the bike recently.


Thanks. Will try both ways. Interesting that you have opposite thoughts on way to go on the pressure. I assume it's more to do with riding style and terrain at the end of the day rather than an absolute right or wrong way.

Is there a need to back out the LSC to full open when changing pressures and then dialing it back in or does pressure not affect it?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> Thanks. Will try both ways. Interesting that you have opposite thoughts on way to go on the pressure. I assume it's more to do with riding style and terrain at the end of the day rather than an absolute right or wrong way.
> 
> Is there a need to back out the LSC to full open when changing pressures and then dialing it back in or does pressure not affect it?


I tend to run springs stiffer than most, Dougal tends run springs softer than most. Like you said, its terrain and riding style. If I ran a Dougal set up, I'd bottom out on small drops. If he ran mine, he would only use 100mm of travel.

I actually run my LSC 3-5 clicks out and HSC 2 clicks out. This combined with a stiffer spring is actually less harsh at high speed than when I tried a softer spring. This is because the softer spring overshoots and rides if the more progressive part of the sping curve. Going a little stiffer allows it to ride higher and have more travel available to absorb the impacts.

There is no right or wrong answer to this though, its all preferences. Try both, try faster rebound, try slower rebound, mess with the compression adjusters.... Just make one change at a time so you can see how each change you affects the ride quality.

My set up for reference:

160lbs in gear. 
160mm 27.5 on a pivot Mach 6.
Tested both offsets, prefer 44mm over 37mm
48psi main, 84 IRT (usually use 150mm, bottom occasionally)
LSC 3 clicks out
HSC 2 clicks out
Rebound 8 clicks out

For slower speed trails with a lot of chunk, I run 
Same spring
LSC 5 out
HSC 3 out
LSR 8 out


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I tend to run springs stiffer than most, Dougal tends run springs softer than most. Like you said, its terrain and riding style. If I ran a Dougal set up, I'd bottom out on small drops. If he ran mine, he would only use 100mm of travel.


To put this into perspective. Nick drives a GTI and I drive old range-rovers.

I started riding when bikes didn't have suspension so I can alternate between floating a bike over stuff and pounding it through.

I've got a lot of stuff to try on Mezzer and Mara over summer. But I haven't yet buried the pile of work that's been keeping me off the bike.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> To put this into perspective. Nick drives a GTI and I drive old range-rovers.
> 
> I started riding when bikes didn't have suspension so I can alternate between floating a bike over stuff and pounding it through.
> 
> I've got a lot of stuff to try on Mezzer and Mara over summer. But I haven't yet buried the pile of work that's been keeping me off the bike.


I didn't want to, but I sold my GTI for a new work truck. Loved that car. Point taken though.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I tend to run springs stiffer than most, Dougal tends run springs softer than most. Like you said, its terrain and riding style. If I ran a Dougal set up, I'd bottom out on small drops. If he ran mine, he would only use 100mm of travel.
> 
> I actually run my LSC 3-5 clicks out and HSC 2 clicks out. This combined with a stiffer spring is actually less harsh at high speed than when I tried a softer spring. This is because the softer spring overshoots and rides if the more progressive part of the sping curve. Going a little stiffer allows it to ride higher and have more travel available to absorb the impacts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I'll try going both ways. Just need a break in the weather, a bit of free time and a suitable a piece of trail I can session. It doesn't help that I've had limited riding time in the last few months and when I do ride it's with friends so stopping to mess round with settings and repeatedly session a section of trail is not really appropriate.



Dougal said:


> To put this into perspective. Nick drives a GTI and I drive old range-rovers.


Well I drive a GTI too so maybe I should err towards Nicks settings lol. J/K, I think the issue is I set up my Mezzer on local trails whilst rooty, the average speed is relatively slow, so when I went to the WNC mountains and the speeds much higher the settings were off and the high speed chatter killed my hands.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> I didn't want to, but I sold my GTI for a new work truck. Loved that car. Point taken though.


I drive a work van outfitted for camping ... what's that say about me?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> I drive a work van outfitted for camping ... what's that say about me?


Well I didn't start the car comparison, but I would say the driving a adventure van means you shred and hit the trails pretty hard. I'd guess you prefer chunky natural trails over machine built flow, but still enjoy sending some jumps and drops. That means stiffer spring and less damping because you want a little pop from your suspension. You run your rebound too fast, because that's how you live life.

Also, if I had to guess, you probably smell a little by Sunday evenings, but that's van life.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

Short offset 29 Mezzers are in stock at Jenson and BTI. Low Stock. I'm hoping Manitou worked through the bushing and loose bottom out bumper issues. My local shop just grabbed one from BTI for me.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I just found these service kits for the Mezzer. They contain replacement bottom out bumpers which would indicate that they are user serviceable items. Wonder why the factory had to get the forks returned to repair the loose one's if it's something we can do ourselves??
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mezzer-pro-comp-servicekit-932088


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> I just found these service kits for the Mezzer. They contain replacement bottom out bumpers which would indicate that they are user serviceable items. Wonder why the factory had to get the forks returned to repair the loose one's if it's something we can do ourselves??
> https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mezzer-pro-comp-servicekit-932088


Great question.. When I asked Manitou they were insistent that I send the fork back.

They've had it for over a month for loose bottom out bumpers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> Great question.. When I asked Manitou they were insistent that I send the fork back.
> 
> *They've had it for over a month for loose bottom out bumpers*.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Have you had any feedback about what the delay is or reason for the loose bumpers? I am guessing the issue may lie with the lower castings and they've been waiting for the new lowers to come in otherwise why have the fork so long?

How were your bushings?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

trail-blazer said:


> Have you had any feedback about what the delay is or reason for the loose bumpers? I am guessing the issue may lie with the lower castings and they've been waiting for the new lowers to come in otherwise why have the fork so long?
> 
> How were your bushings?


My bushings were fine as far as I could tell.. no play or knocking.

Last I heard they were waiting for "parts" that were due on the 15th.. they have been radio silent since.

I suspect you are correct about them waiting for lowers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Service guide is available

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...nts/360049483474/Mezzer_Pro_Service_Guide.pdf


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> Service guide is available
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...nts/360049483474/Mezzer_Pro_Service_Guide.pdf


Sweet, nice timing. I just ordered a Mezzer 44/29 yesterday. Not that it looks difficult to work on at all. I'll definitely be giving it a thorough going over and travel change before riding it. Supergliss for bath and Slickoleum wherever needed. I see the service guide says 21cc of bath oil, that's a bit more than previously stated here. And it shows putting bath oil on the seals instead of Slickoleum, as it has been stated SKF suggests. Has anybody done a back to back with Slickoleum vs. Supergliss on the seals?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Velodonata said:


> Sweet, nice timing. I just ordered a Mezzer 44/29 yesterday. Not that it looks difficult to work on at all. I'll definitely be giving it a thorough going over and travel change before riding it. Supergliss for bath and Slickoleum wherever needed. I see the service guide says 21cc of bath oil, that's a bit more than previously stated here. And it shows putting bath oil on the seals instead of Slickoleum, as it has been stated SKF suggests. Has anybody done a back to back with Slickoleum vs. Supergliss on the seals?


I have done a back to back with Motorex (not supergliss though) vs slick honey.. I think I posted about it in October.

Bottom line: Not sure WTF they are thinking with that, but nope.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Ganderson said:


> I have done a back to back with Motorex (not supergliss though) vs slick honey.. I think I posted about it in October.
> 
> Bottom line: Not sure WTF they are thinking with that, but nope.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Long story short, Manitou decided through testing to go with SKF seals in the Mezzer. SKF requests that no grease is used on the seals during assembly. Manitou follows the seal manufacturing guidelines.

End users are free to lube the seals however they want. I personally have not noted a difference in performance, but I also do lower services often enough that I would not be able to offer a valid opinion on which is better over a long period of time. Over a short period of time (5-10 hours), oil only has work fine for me.

This guide is the first time I have seen 21cc listed on paperwork, but I will consider it the official number from this point forward. The bath oil volume is based on a number of variables, the biggest being enough volume for proper lubrication while being low enough to keep oil migration to the damper at a minimum. (All seals will allow oil migration over time) They must have found the best combination to be 21cc.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

I’d encourage experimentation with the slick honey vs bath oil on the seals and report back.. for me there was an obvious performance difference but Mullen says otherwise and he seems to know what he’s talking about.. so, give it a shot.

I’m by nature and profession a stickler for factory specs so I was quick to try it when manitou tech support notified me of the mfg recommendation.

Glad to see the service manual is out. I’ve said it before but they’ve made it a pleasure to work on compared to Rockshox and this serviceability is one of the reasons I hope I can get the bike to handle as well as it does with my Lyrik... if I ever get it back from Manitou.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Has anyone had oil migrate up into the damper-side stanchion? 

The last few bath oil changes I've done, I noticed that the quantity of bath oil draining out of the damper side to be considerably lower than the opposite side with no signs of a leak. I decided to remove the damper assembly and as soon as I unthreaded it, a decent quantity of oil dumped out of the stanchion. It seemed like bath oil and the damper didn't show any signs of a leak or bladder rupture. It seems like bath oil is migrating up into the stanchion around the damper, but not draining back down into the lowers.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> Has anyone had oil migrate up into the damper-side stanchion?
> 
> The last few bath oil changes I've done, I noticed that the quantity of bath oil draining out of the damper side to be considerably lower than the opposite side with no signs of a leak. I decided to remove the damper assembly and as soon as I unthreaded it, a decent quantity of oil dumped out of the stanchion. It seemed like bath oil and the damper didn't show any signs of a leak or bladder rupture. It seems like bath oil is migrating up into the stanchion around the damper, but not draining back down into the lowers.


That's interesting, it seems like it should be able to easily drain back down. There is some sort of support piece for the damper at the bottom of the stanchion, right? Is it just to keep the damper centered? Does it have a drainback port or anything or is it just not supposed to fit tight enough to hold oil? There is plenty of room for it to hold a lot. I don't have my Mezzer yet but I was kind of curious exactly how it goes together at the bottom of the damper side stanchion, that's the only part I'm not reasonably clear on, but I had assumed it was simple.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> That's interesting, it seems like it should be able to easily drain back down. There is some sort of support piece for the damper at the bottom of the stanchion, right? Is it just to keep the damper centered? Does it have a drainback port or anything or is it just not supposed to fit tight enough to hold oil? There is plenty of room for it to hold a lot. I don't have my Mezzer yet but I was kind of curious exactly how it goes together at the bottom of the damper side stanchion, that's the only part I'm not reasonably clear on, but I had assumed it was simple.
> 
> View attachment 1301763


The lower cap is a close fit, but not a seal. With the lower legs off I can hear air cycling in and out as you stroke the damper and the bladder expands and contracts.

There should only be a few cc that won't drain out. If you need all of it, just unscrew the damper cartridge a few turns at the top-cap.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The lower cap is a close fit, but not a seal. With the lower legs off I can hear air cycling in and out as you stroke the damper and the bladder expands and contracts.
> 
> There should only be a few cc that won't drain out. If you need all of it, just unscrew the damper cartridge a few turns at the top-cap.


After a break because of broken rips back on my bike I am no experimenting with new setup. With my kind of tracks, often many roots, rocks and steep I would only go a little under the recommended air pressure, rather higher. 
But my problem is, I do not know, if to use rsther fast or slow rebound. Fork feels somehow imbalanced undefined although i use higher pressures. Or does this show, I need to add some compression damping?


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

bansaiman said:


> After a break because of broken rips back on my bike I am no experimenting with new setup. With my kind of tracks, often many roots, rocks and steep I would only go a little under the recommended air pressure, rather higher.
> But my problem is, I do not know, if to use rsther fast or slow rebound. Fork feels somehow imbalanced undefined although i use higher pressures. Or does this show, I need to add some compression damping?


the amount of rebound damping you need is closely linked to the air pressure in the fork. there's a variation of maybe 1-2 clicks each direction based on rider preference / style. so if you have more pressure, then add more rebound damping.

there is a lot to tune on the mezzer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've had the first ride on my retuned Mezzer. I reduced compression damping about 20% and reshaped the rebound to suit my personal preferences. I have a spare damper so I can hot swap.

So far I'm extremely happy with it but my riding has been on unfamiliar tracks so the true benchmark is still to come. I'm now running 35/65psi and getting full travel feeling great with LSC closed. I'm running greased seals and Supergliss. Yes I know SKF don't want me to grease the seals, but I accept the risks.

Interestingly I had no retained oil around the damper cartridge when I swapped them.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I'm hopeful that the warranty issues will be sorted this week. Christmas is done (Hayes) people, get back to work!!

Patience is wearing thin....

mini rant done ;-)


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Dougal said:


> I've had the first ride on my retuned Mezzer. I reduced compression damping about 20% and reshaped the rebound to suit my personal preferences. I have a spare damper so I can hot swap.
> 
> So far I'm extremely happy with it but my riding has been on unfamiliar tracks so the true benchmark is still to come. I'm now running 35/65psi and getting full travel feeling great with LSC closed. I'm running greased seals and Supergliss. *Yes I know SKF don't want me to grease the seals, but I accept the risks.*
> 
> Interestingly I had no retained oil around the damper cartridge when I swapped them.


just so we're all clear, can you confirm what I think this means?

pretty much all seal manufacturers and nearly all fork manufacturers don't want any kind of lube on the stanchions or wiper, or combined wiper / oil seal if used, on any fork that doesn't have a boot due to dust attraction. right?

anything on the stanchion or on a wiper will attract more dust than if the stanchion is dry. which will wear the seals faster than less dust.

for a majority of riders, the fork is operating in a dusty environment. so it's not zero, it's more dust or less. and if you do frequent maintenance, increased wear on the seals probably doesn't matter, but increased wear on the stanchions might.

the type of dust probably even matters. if you're riding somewhere with volcanic dust, that stuff is horrific and you would probably want to minimize the wear. if it's wet and not dusty, there's no difference in how much mud is attracted or retained.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ColinL said:


> just so we're all clear, can you confirm what I think this means?
> 
> pretty much all seal manufacturers and nearly all fork manufacturers don't want any kind of lube on the stanchions or wiper, or combined wiper / oil seal if used, on any fork that doesn't have a boot due to dust attraction. right?
> 
> ...


Not this time. I'm talking about greasing the inside of the seals before reassembly. I never, ever, lube the outside of a fork (it just makes grinding paste).

SKF via Manitou have said the new Mezzer seals should only be lubricated with the bushing oil they're holding in. They say not to grease them. Most likely because they want to keep unknown grease compounds away from their rubber.

I had my Mezzer before this directive came out and had already greased the seals with Slickoleum. I've had no issues resulting from this.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Not this time. I'm talking about greasing the inside of the seals before reassembly. I never, ever, lube the outside of a fork (it just makes grinding paste).
> 
> SKF via Manitou have said the new Mezzer seals should only be lubricated with the bushing oil they're holding in. They say not to grease them. Most likely because they want to keep unknown grease compounds away from their rubber.
> 
> I had my Mezzer before this directive came out and had already greased the seals with Slickoleum. I've had no issues resulting from this.


I also used grease for my first 2 lower leg services (first was initial travel change) only switching to oil after that info came out. I had no issues from using grease.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dear Mr. "nurse ben",

your order has been dispatched.

We have sent to you the following item(s):

--[Article(s)]--------------------------------------------------------
Quantity: 1
Item: Manitou Mezzer Pro suspension fork 27.5'/650B 180mm tapered Boost 44mm offset

YEAH!!! Now to decide on the backend, think Mara Pro


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> your order has been dispatched.


Damn, lucky. I got a "maybe 2 more weeks" email today about my order placed two weeks ago. Oh well, I guess that means it's definitely a fresh batch, hopefully they got all the bugs worked out.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Velodonata said:


> Damn, lucky. I got a "maybe 2 more weeks" email today about my order placed two weeks ago. Oh well, I guess that means it's definitely a fresh batch, hopefully they got all the bugs worked out.


It was on backorder for a couple weeks, so new batch, which should be good to go. I'll pull apart to check, likely reduce to 170mm. I was surprised it shipped so soon, coming from Germany do it'll be a week or two for delivery


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dear Mr. "nurse ben",
> 
> your order has been dispatched.
> 
> ...


Exciting! What's the bike?

My Mezzer and Mara have been rock solid. It has taken me a while to dial them in, mostly due to workload. But I'm super stoked now.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Exciting! What's the bike?
> 
> My Mezzer and Mara have been rock solid. It has taken me a while to dial them in, mostly due to workload. But I'm super stoked now.


Guerrilla Gravity Mega Trail/Shred Dogg

So I am curious about how to adjust shim stacks.

I watched a Manitou video and they said that it was something anyone with basic skills can do with the existing shim stack. Is it true that the shock has all the shims I'd need to adjust for my weight and use?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> It was on backorder for a couple weeks, so new batch, which should be good to go. I'll pull apart to check, likely reduce to 170mm. I was surprised it shipped so soon, coming from Germany do it'll be a week or two for delivery


In two days my order (29" 44mm) went from maybe two more weeks to having an active tracking number, it looks like they are back in stock.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've had about 12 hours riding on my tuned Mezzer in the last few weeks and I'm totally stoked. It has reset the bar for what a single crown fork can do (I haven't tried it head to head with a tuned Dorado).

Right now I don't have any other plans for it except riding.

I'm running it at 170mm with 35/65psi and a tuned damper.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I've had about 12 hours riding on my tuned Mezzer in the last few weeks and I'm totally stoked. It has reset the bar for what a single crown fork can do (I haven't tried it head to head with a tuned Dorado).
> 
> Right now I don't have any other plans for it except riding.
> 
> I'm running it at 170mm with 35/65psi and a tuned damper.


Aside from having a VERY different tune from yours, even accounting for rider weight differences and ht/fs... i agree. This fork is amazing. I've been hitting features i thought i'd never touch on a HT, while fatiguing like i was on my 6" enduro bike (with custom tuned dampers). It's a confusingly good fork. It's difficult to imagine a superior telescoping fork is possible.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> I've had about 12 hours riding on my tuned Mezzer in the last few weeks and I'm totally stoked. It has reset the bar for what a single crown fork can do (I haven't tried it head to head with a tuned Dorado).
> 
> Right now I don't have any other plans for it except riding.
> 
> I'm running it at 170mm with 35/65psi and a tuned damper.


Curious to hear why you chose to custom tuned the damper. Did you feel it was over/under damped for your weight or something else specific you wanted from it? Did you tune it yourself of have Hayes do it?

I think our riding weights are not too dissimilar, I'm ~162lbs to 170lbs depending if I have a pack and bladder on or not. Your main spring pressure seems really low. Doesn't that keep you riding deep into the travel and make your mid stroke relatively short?


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Anyone get their fork back yet that went in for the loose bump stop or bushing problem? Just wondering what was changed or done. I'm still on the fence whether to send mine in or not.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Curious to hear why you chose to custom tuned the damper. Did you feel it was over/under damped for your weight or something else specific you wanted from it? Did you tune it yourself of have Hayes do it?
> 
> I think our riding weights are not too dissimilar, I'm ~162lbs to 170lbs depending if I have a pack and bladder on or not. Your main spring pressure seems really low. Doesn't that keep you riding deep into the travel and make your mid stroke relatively short?


I wanted less compression damping and a different rebound feel. I ride in rocky terrain and I like the suspension to be hyperactive and able to quickly use the mid-stroke all the time. My bike is also fairly long and slack which loads the fork less than some other bikes do.

Tune is done by me. I'll put together a tuning package when I find the time with a rack of preset tunes for these forks.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

trail-blazer said:


> Anyone get their fork back yet that went in for the loose bump stop or bushing problem? Just wondering what was changed or done. I'm still on the fence whether to send mine in or not.


They've had mine since 11/21 for this loose bumper issue (my bushings were fine).

They stopped replying to my email requests for updates (maybe once every 1.5-2 weeks) so I called early last week and after sitting on hold for 30min or so I left a message.

They emailed the following message I response to my call: 
"I spoke with the techs that are finishing this fork, it will ship out in the next day or two. Sorry for delays, given the time of the year and holiday facility shutdowns everything gotten pushed back."

That was last Tuesday.. I've gotten no notification that it actually shipped last week.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I wanted less compression damping and a different rebound feel. I ride in rocky terrain and I like the suspension to be hyperactive and able to quickly use the mid-stroke all the time. My bike is also fairly long and slack which loads the fork less than some other bikes do.
> 
> Tune is done by me. I'll put together a tuning package when I find the time with a rack of preset tunes for these forks.


Interesting comment about the rebound feel.. I also ride in rocky terrain and had found something "off" feeling about the rebound. Care to elaborate on what you think the issue was? Sounds like it was too slow?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> Interesting comment about the rebound feel.. I also ride in rocky terrain and had found something "off" feeling about the rebound. Care to elaborate on what you think the issue was? Sounds like it was too slow?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Stock rebound is a two stage stack, which keeps it more linear. I prefer a more digressive single stage stack to allow faster HSR for the same LSR.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Stock rebound is a two stage stack, which keeps it more linear. I prefer a more digressive single stage stack to allow faster HSR for the same LSR.


Nice.. can the stock shim stack be rearranged to accomplish this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ganderson said:


> Nice.. can the stock shim stack be rearranged to accomplish this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, with some other work. Email me for the details.


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Yes, with some other work. Email me for the details.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

My repaired unit showed up at the house today.. nice surprise.

The fork went in for loose bottom out bumpers. The packing list says 1 damper assy, 1 air spring assy, 1 t-shirt (thanks Manitou!).

It came back with the same CSU but the lowers are brand new so maybe they are replacing lowers with improved bushings and bumpers.

Now... to give it another go or sell and carry on with the Lyrik? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Ganderson said:


> My repaired unit showed up at the house today.. nice surprise.
> 
> The fork went in for loose bottom out bumpers. The packing list says 1 damper assy, 1 air spring assy, 1 t-shirt (thanks Manitou!).
> 
> ...


Great to hear! I wonder why the listed the damper and spring assemblies in the lacking list. Do you think they replaced those too?

It would also be good to know what changed in the lowers.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I search for it, but couldn't find it: 

What's the service interval on the Mezzer?


----------



## Ganderson (Nov 27, 2006)

trail-blazer said:


> Great to hear! I wonder why the listed the damper and spring assemblies in the lacking list. Do you think they replaced those too?
> 
> It would also be good to know what changed in the lowers.


Not sure if they actually replaced the damper or air spring.. mine were fine. I only had a problem with the IRT seals (which I fixed myself) and the loose bumpers.

My bushings were ok so it would be hilarious if the new lowers have bushing play, but I would assume the new lowers that they got in had solved the bushing and bumper issues. Haven't installed it yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> I search for it, but couldn't find it:
> 
> What's the service interval on the Mezzer?


I don't seen anything official out yet. But I'm sure Manitou won't mind me sharing this info:

At 25/75/125/175 hours add 7cc bath oil to the lower legs
At 50/100/150 hours do a full lower leg oil change (15cc) and air spring clean/lube
At 200 hours do a full service (seals, foam rings, air-seals, damper oil etc).

Stated another way:
25hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
50hr Lower Leg clean and relube with 15cc
75hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
100hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
125hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
150hr Lower Leg and Air Spring clean and relube 15cc
175hr Bath oil top-up 7cc
200hr Full service with oil change, wiper seal & air seal change.
Go to the top and repeat.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Dougal, I cant send my fork to NZ but sure would like your vavling mod! Sounds like we have the same riding style and all the things you say how your fork feels is what I have been wanting since I got it. You know how long thats been since we talked on the phone many months ago. Can you share the secret?

Ken


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

KenDobson said:


> Dougal, I cant send my fork to NZ but sure would like your vavling mod! Sounds like we have the same riding style and all the things you say how your fork feels is what I have been wanting since I got it. You know how long thats been since we talked on the phone many months ago. Can you share the secret?
> 
> Ken


NZ might be in the middle of nowhere, but it's worth sending the kit in. 
I borrowed a friends fork while Dougal did mine.

Far exceeded expectation, I thought my fork was near perfect before mods, just needed a little tweak.

After the mod I got 3/3 PBs on my test track, one with 50% higher speed than previous best....conditions were bad too!


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Just got an email that my new lowers are being shipped at last!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you been talking to my wife?!



mullen119 said:


> Well I didn't start the car comparison, but I would say the driving a adventure van means you shred and hit the trails pretty hard. I'd guess you prefer chunky natural trails over machine built flow, but still enjoy sending some jumps and drops. That means stiffer spring and less damping because you want a little pop from your suspension. You run your rebound too fast, because that's how you live life.
> 
> Also, if I had to guess, you probably smell a little by Sunday evenings, but that's van life.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

robmac48 said:


> Just got an email that my new lowers are being shipped at last!


From your comment, it sounds like they're sending you new lowers without you having to have returned the fork. Is that correct or did you only return your lowers for warranty?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

trail-blazer said:


> From your comment, it sounds like they're sending you new lowers without you having to have returned the fork. Is that correct or did you only return your lowers for warranty?


I did not return my forks. The paperwork I received states I just have lowers and sticker kit being shipped but I'll let you know if there are any surprises in the box when it arrives.

Good timing because both of my forks are almost unrideable now as the bushings are properly loose and rattle like I haven't tightened the headset! Does anyone know if these loose bushings can be tightened up at all or is the problem more complicated?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my Mezzer last night, rode it this morning, I'm 190# plus kit, bike is a GG Revved Shred Dog 140mm rear travel:

Mezzer 180mm, 44mm offset, 27.5 (yeah, to much travel for the rear end)
Initial Set Up:
50/75, Rebound 5, HSC 0/1, LSC 4

First ride felt good, I added a click of rebound to tame the return, felt kinda springy but I'm coming from a fairly damp coil fork. Nosing off some small rocks at speed the fork was very responsive. 

The Mezzer is supple, not quite on pair with a coil, but pretty good for an air fork. Stiffness was right up there with my Bomber Z1, perhaps stiffer; I didn't notice any flex, springing back, or stiction when pushed hard.

Next ride I'm going to drop pressure, start comparing pressures to get a sense for the "ratio" that works for me, with the plan that I'll use 1/2 HSC to tame the fork without having to overpressurize.

Oh, and that fender, what a POS!


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> I did not return my forks. The paperwork I received states I just have lowers and sticker kit being shipped but I'll let you know if there are any surprises in the box when it arrives.
> 
> Good timing because both of my forks are almost unrideable now as the bushings are properly loose and rattle like I haven't tightened the headset! Does anyone know if these loose bushings can be tightened up at all or is the problem more complicated?


Its not an issue that can be fixed, the bad lowers are trash


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Oh, and that fender, what a POS!


I like the design of the fender significantly more than the Mattoc fender, but the plastic is too flimsy.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Got my Mezzer last night, rode it this morning, I'm 190# plus kit, bike is a GG Revved Shred Dog 140mm rear travel:
> 
> Mezzer 180mm, 44mm offset, 27.5 (yeah, to much travel for the rear end)
> Initial Set Up:
> ...


You're starting out with it under-sprung and you're going to go down further?

Wouldn't be my choice, even though there's a lot of talk in this thread about riding with the spring empty. I faffed around a lot and ended up using manitou's recommendations.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I like the design of the fender significantly more than the Mattoc fender, but the plastic is too flimsy.


I prefer the more rubbery 2020 fender to the same but stiffer 2019 version. I had my 2019 crunched up in a chairlift and it took days to straighten out again. 2020 I could probably make it into a ball and watch it pop back.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

scottzg said:


> You're starting out with it under-sprung and you're going to go down further?
> 
> Wouldn't be my choice, even though there's a lot of talk in this thread about riding with the spring empty. I faffed around a lot and ended up using manitou's recommendations.


Undersprung is in the eyes of the beholder, also how you ride, and what your ride.

I'm not as interested in getting a poppy feel as I am in getting a damp feel.

Lots of ways to skin the same potato 

I'll post more once I get a chance to really test out the fork ... still limited to short tracks due to weather, but this week is melting all the snow so I shoudl be able to pound it good this weekend.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> I prefer the more rubbery 2020 fender to the same but stiffer 2019 version. I had my 2019 crunched up in a chairlift and it took days to straighten out again. 2020 I could probably make it into a ball and watch it pop back.


The 2020 fender is rubbery, but it really reduces tire clearance. Any fender used on the Mezzer will need to be under the arch or attached to the side of the arch, but the rear facing arch really limits options.

My fav fender is the bolt on for Fox forks, only covers the front but works well without being a bother.

I'm running 2.8 Maxxis Minion, which is really tight on the fender, so I'll probably run fenderless until I reduce to 2.6" tires in the spring.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The 2020 fender is rubbery, but it really reduces tire clearance. Any fender used on the Mezzer will need to be under the arch or attached to the side of the arch, but the rear facing arch really limits options.
> 
> My fav fender is the bolt on for Fox forks, only covers the front but works well without being a bother.
> 
> I'm running 2.8 Maxxis Minion, which is really tight on the fender, so I'll probably run fenderless until I reduce to 2.6" tires in the spring.


The 2018 fender was rearward only and doesn't reduce clearance. It will fit Mezzer: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mattoc-fender-mudguard-2018-manitou.html

Officially it's 2.8" without the fender and 2.6" with. I run a 2.6" DHF.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I prefer the more rubbery 2020 fender to the same but stiffer 2019 version. I had my 2019 crunched up in a chairlift and it took days to straighten out again. 2020 I could probably make it into a ball and watch it pop back.


The 2020 version broke for me and was a little noisy as it flops around. I use a kuat NV2 for transportation and didn't think about clamping down on the fender..... I will probably just skip the fender for 2020


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Undersprung is in the eyes of the beholder, also how you ride, and what your ride.
> 
> I'm not as interested in getting a poppy feel as I am in getting a damp feel.
> 
> ...


Totally get what you're saying, not trying to argue. You know how internet chatting goes. 

Ultimately i'm running a much more aggressive setup than i typically do (more spring, more compression), compared to what the manufacturer recommends. Drifting much below their 'trail' suggestions made the fork a total mess (given its intentions), and touching the upper limit of their 'DH' suggestion aggravated a nerve problem in my hand. IMO their chart boxed in my experience perfectly, which i've never seen before.

I'm 30lbs heavier than you and riding a 150mm mezzer on a hardtail, so it's not directly comparable... but it seems crazy to me to start out tweaking the fork without even trying it how the manufacturer intended. Double bonus for the mezzer, which has the best guidelines i've ever seen.

I love dickering with suspension, and i've gone down a rabbit hole and created a horrible tune a buncha times (usually with cars) because i didn't establish a known good baseline first.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

My experience when I am needing more aggressive spring/higher pressure or firmer spring, is because of lack of sufficient damping. Unfortunately will heavier riders like 200-250 range probably experience the lack of damping represented by the OEM products. The piston/shim design is not moving enough oil, so when you try dial in more on the adjustment, it just get`s harsh and uncomfortable. Manitou is actually not the worse, but has to modest design to get proper damping for heavier riders.



scottzg said:


> Totally get what you're saying, not trying to argue. You know how internet chatting goes.
> 
> Ultimately i'm running a much more aggressive setup than i typically do (more spring, more compression), compared to what the manufacturer recommends. Drifting much below their 'trail' suggestions made the fork a total mess (given its intentions), and touching the upper limit of their 'DH' suggestion aggravated a nerve problem in my hand. IMO their chart boxed in my experience perfectly, which i've never seen before.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evil_Bun (Sep 9, 2019)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> My experience when I am needing more aggressive spring/higher pressure or firmer spring, is because of lack of sufficient damping. Unfortunately will heavier riders like 200-250 range probably experience the lack of damping represented by the OEM products. The piston/shim design is not moving enough oil, so when you try dial in more on the adjustment, it just get`s harsh and uncomfortable. Manitou is actually not the worse, but has to modest design to get proper damping for heavier riders.


Being 200lbs before gear, it is definitely something I've run into with other products. However, I think Manitou has done a very good job of creating an air spring that won't overwhelm the damper. I'm running pressures over the recommended range for my weight and still have plenty of room for adjustment without feeling like the fork can't keep up. I had a Mattoc before and it was close, but the Mezzer is a leap ahead for me.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No offense taken, I did look at Manitou's recommendation for my weight and intentionally went lower because that's what I always do 

Like you, I'm a tweaker, and I nearly always find that my preferred set up is lighter than everyone else my size. Perhaps it's how I ride, but I like a lighter spring pressure, a lower tire pressure, less rebound, and lower compression damping.

I like to think of my suspension set up as "free love" ?

Edit: I have found that a hardtail typically requires a firmer set up to compensate for a lack of rear suspension, in a sense, rear suspension reduces the need for a firm front end because you can absorb impact by moving rearward.



scottzg said:


> Totally get what you're saying, not trying to argue. You know how internet chatting goes.
> 
> Ultimately i'm running a much more aggressive setup than i typically do (more spring, more compression), compared to what the manufacturer recommends. Drifting much below their 'trail' suggestions made the fork a total mess (given its intentions), and touching the upper limit of their 'DH' suggestion aggravated a nerve problem in my hand. IMO their chart boxed in my experience perfectly, which i've never seen before.
> 
> ...


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> Got my Mezzer last night, ...


Sweet. Did you do any proactive maintenance or check for appropriate lube amounts? Was there a build date on it? I'm expecting mine to show up today, curious if they have worked out both quality and assembly issues and if everything shipping is fresh stock. I'll be pulling mine apart to change travel, I might as well check everything else while I'm in there, although I don't think I'm going to touch the damper at this point.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

First chairlift rides with the Mezzer yesterday so the first chance to really push it into berms. I bumped up air pressure to 35/75psi and super happy.

I tried 35/85psi, but it shortened the mid-stroke too much. 35/75 felt great.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

*Mezzer day!*

Mine arrived this afternoon. I ordered it from Germany and it took almost a month to get here. The price was very good and at the time it was the only place that would even accept an order for a 44/29 version. What a stout beast, it looks like it should weigh at least a pound more than it feels. I took the travel all the way down so I can run it on my Ripley v4 to replace a Fox 34 Factory also at 140mm, I just finished putting it back together. Initial impressions are positive with some hopefully insignificant reservations. I definitely prefer working on it to a Fox or RS. It's easy to take apart and reassemble, it goes together nicely and seems to be well made. The travel adjustment spacers system definitely beats replacing the entire air shaft. I'm not sure what to think about that flexy fender, it's nothing like I expected from having one of those bolt on Synchros fenders on my Fox 34. I'll reserve judgement until I actually use it. There is a good chance I will trim most of the front side of it off anyway for rack compatibility.

As others have reported however, they aren't doing such a great job at the factory. IRT was dry inside. Grease on the bottom of the piston, but none inside the chamber or on the shaft. Zero. Main air piston and shaft had grease but not a lot and it was sloppily applied. I didn't measure it, but the amount of bath oil seemed OK, I replaced it with Supergliss.

The big chrome letter stickers proudly displaying the Manitou name have little wrinkles and pinch gaps that won't stay down. You wouldn't notice casually looking at the bike but they are obvious if you are handling the fork. Air pressure sticker is visibly crooked. The other ones look fine, they should be tougher to put on so maybe they have more care taken.

I am curious if I will have any warranty issues. I expected a fresh production date but the box says July 2019. The parts bag with the fender was marked MY20. The main box looks to have been opened and resealed with Hayes logo tape. So maybe this is earlier production that was opened up and fixed before it shipped the first time? Wishful thinking? Who knows, it wasn't in stock when I ordered it so it came from distribution somewhere. Based on past dealings with Hayes I will expect to be taken care of if there are any issues.

I did notice one of the bottom out bumpers came out of position when I dropped the lowers. I have no idea why this would be a warranty problem as people have reported, there must have been something else going on. It just sits in the bottom, held in by having slightly oversized tabs around it. Very simple. I yanked it out with a hooked wire, looked it over and verified how it goes and then pressed it back in with a dowel.

As to that recent post about the damper side stanchion holding bath oil, I can now see how that might be possible. There is an o-ring around the damper where it seats in the support ring that screws into the bottom of the stanchion. While the ring has notches where a cassette tool is used to remove it, the o-ring pretty much cover the notches. Definitely not a real seal but it might just be enough to fake it. I cut a few of the notches a little deeper to allow for positive drainback. Probably not a big deal but it only took a minute.

I'm really looking forward to trying it out on Sunday, I have high hopes for the great performance other have reported. I really like the overall design and features. But I think Manitou is shooting themselves in the foot with quality control, the scenario of the Pinkbike review being soured by a dry IRT seems entirely possible to me. I like working on my bike and will happily do whatever it takes to make this thing work, but for average Joe who has better things to do and doesn't have the wrench skills or patience, I might have a harder time recommending this fork even if I love how this thing rides.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Velodonata said:


> There is a good chance I will trim most of the front side of it off anyway for rack compatibility.


I've just clamped down on it with my yakima rack and haven't had any trouble.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

what I am not catching here is how is the low air pressure stated here in the thread, so out of line with the Manitou recommended set up? Is it something wrong with the set up manual? The sag in the set up manual says 20-25% with 70/30 weight distribution?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> what I am not catching here is how is the low air pressure stated here in the thread, so out of line with the Manitou recommended set up? Is it something wrong with the set up manual? The sag in the set up manual says 20-25% with 70/30 weight distribution?


I haven't looked at most people's set ups, but I'm actually right in the ballpark of the guide. 160mm, 160lbs, 48/86. Off the top of my head the guide states something like 52/82 for me.

I never check sag, no idea where I'm at. I'm sure its in proper range.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> what I am not catching here is how is the low air pressure stated here in the thread, so out of line with the Manitou recommended set up? Is it something wrong with the set up manual? The sag in the set up manual says 20-25% with 70/30 weight distribution?


My pet theory is that the folks running silly-soft forks are long time riders who learned their technique in the bad old days. The old bikes you hung off the bars and leaned back, and only shifted in to a central position for cornering. If you do that on a modern bike having it under sprung tips the bike to your advantage, and better reflects weight distribution.

Novice and/or defensive riders tend to underweight the front end too, and they're also gonna like that set up as well.

I'm the opposite- enduro hardtail, gotta stand on the front wheel or the bike doesn't work. 10psi over recommendation, which still fits manitou's guide.

My impression is that the mezzer's tuning range can play nice with some fairly... divergent tunes, so that's what's happening- better customization.

It's a guess.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> what I am not catching here is how is the low air pressure stated here in the thread, so out of line with the Manitou recommended set up? Is it something wrong with the set up manual? The sag in the set up manual says 20-25% with 70/30 weight distribution?


I ride choppier trails and like my suspension to react quickly to get up and over rocks and back down again. So my spring and damper rates are quite different to those running smoother trails. I'm also running 170mm front and 165mm rear. So I've got a lot of suspension to use.

I have been riding since rigid fork days and can alternate between floating a bike over rough ground and pounding the bike through.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> what I am not catching here is how is the low air pressure stated here in the thread, so out of line with the Manitou recommended set up? Is it something wrong with the set up manual? The sag in the set up manual says 20-25% with 70/30 weight distribution?


As far as I can tell it's only Dougal running the uber low pressures (compared to factory recommendations but he did state his sag is still within range). I'm was close to the factory pressures but when I get the forks back up and running again I'm going to try lowering the main pressure out of curiosity.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> As far as I can tell it's only Dougal running the uber low pressures (compared to factory recommendations but he did state his sag is still within range). I'm was close to the factory pressures but when I get the forks back up and running again I'm going to try lowering the main pressure out of curiosity.


I went as low as 35/55psi with the stock damper. I'm now at 35/75psi with a tuned damper.

I ride a long and slack bike. So less weight on the front wheel.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> I went as low as 35/55psi with the stock damper. I'm now at 35/75psi with a tuned damper.
> 
> *I ride a long and slack bike. So less weight on the front wheel*.


^^^ This. The slacker the HA the less sag you're going to get for a given pressure compared to a steeper HA. I find that on my Pole if I run the recommended pressure, I end up with very little sag (and this applied to the mrp Ribbon too that I ran before).

I'm not as low as Dougal but still lower than the suggested pressure.

Saying that, I haven't fully dialed in the fork yet. For various reasons I haven't been able to get much bike time but when I do, I may find myself doing some bracketing with higher pressures to see the difference.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I went as low as 35/55psi with the stock damper. I'm now at 35/75psi with a tuned damper.
> 
> I ride a long and slack bike. So less weight on the front wheel.


How long and how slack? Actually what bike and size?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

robmac48 said:


> How long and how slack? Actually what bike and size?


Bergamont Encore Team. Large.
1220 wheelbase, 65 degree head angle.

It's not extreme today, but it's slightly bigger than the Nomad V4.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nope, just riding it. I did pull the IRT, just to check it out, and it was appropriately greased.

Build date, not sure, but it's pretty recent, had to wait for it to come back into stock.

After riding it today, I think I'm going to follow Dougal's lead and drop the main pressure.

So far I've run 50/75, 45/70, feels like I get plenty of mid stroke support and no issues with bottom out, but it feels a touch firm on the small hits. I'll try going down to 35-40 in the main and see how it feels.



Velodonata said:


> Sweet. Did you do any proactive maintenance or check for appropriate lube amounts? Was there a build date on it? I'm expecting mine to show up today, curious if they have worked out both quality and assembly issues and if everything shipping is fresh stock. I'll be pulling mine apart to change travel, I might as well check everything else while I'm in there, although I don't think I'm going to touch the damper at this point.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

The longer and slacker a bike gets, the more weight bias get balanced. I have ever put my whhels on a weight. but what I am pretty sure that the weight bias is more 60/40 then 70/30. I am riding a Geometron G1 with 62.5 head angle and 1357mm wheelbase.

It is a totally different way to ride then a old style bike, since you are more between the whhels then on top. Still I am not using less pressure in my fork. Maybe I could, since the bike is so tremendously controlled. Though I am not interested in alter the geometry of the bike with riding the fork with much lower dynamic sag.

What was a life time revelation to me was when I was going from single crown to dual crown. The same damper, same bike same air pressure, but a totally different behaviour. The harshness and rough feel of the single crown dissapeared. What was obvious related to twisting and bending in the stanchions, causing stiction, I think is the largest influence on a fork. The effect is larger on heavier riders, and aggressive riders.

The main rule for a lot of riders is actually to not lower the air in their air spring, that causes the front to dive even further. Think fast steep terrain hitting your brakes into a rock garden your bike will dive, and you actually end up with a even firmer and harsher feel of the fork then with a firmer spring. Why people do not want to choose a DC short travel fork instead of a single crown fork, is for me a mystery? With the low weight of some of today's DC forks, and the capability of the enduro bikes ot there, it is only the bike industry itself that manipulate the consumer to think otherwise. There is no sense in having a 180mm travel single crown fork weighing 300-400 gram less then a DC?

I know the IRT system of Manitou is special, and I have tried it myself on my own manitou products. Still it will not change the rule of physics for me. Yes I can run initial stroke much softer, but I need to compensate with IRT pressure. So for me the IRT pressure is pretty high, and the ramp up is pretty steep, when trying to go really soft in main chambers. For me it is more about getting a better initial feel and mid stroke feel of with the IRT, but still I might get an overall useful spring without the IRT, since the high IRT pressure makes it ramping up firmer?



scottzg said:


> My pet theory is that the folks running silly-soft forks are long time riders who learned their technique in the bad old days. The old bikes you hung off the bars and leaned back, and only shifted in to a central position for cornering. If you do that on a modern bike having it under sprung tips the bike to your advantage, and better reflects weight distribution.
> 
> Novice and/or defensive riders tend to underweight the front end too, and they're also gonna like that set up as well.
> 
> ...





Dougal said:


> I went as low as 35/55psi with the stock damper. I'm now at 35/75psi with a tuned damper.
> 
> I ride a long and slack bike. So less weight on the front wheel.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

In that case, I'd just run a coil and call it good.

The goal with the newer gen air forks is to create a fork that weighs less, has fewer limitations than a dual crown, and has the suppleness of a coil spring.

The Mezzer appears to be close.

I see no reason to run a dual crown, nor do all those pro enduro racers.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> The longer and slacker a bike gets, the more weight bias get balanced. I have ever put my whhels on a weight. but what I am pretty sure that the weight bias is more 60/40 then 70/30. I am riding a Geometron G1 with 62.5 head angle and 1357mm wheelbase.
> 
> It is a totally different way to ride then a old style bike, since you are more between the whhels then on top. Still I am not using less pressure in my fork. Maybe I could, since the bike is so tremendously controlled. Though I am not interested in alter the geometry of the bike with riding the fork with much lower dynamic sag.
> 
> ...


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> The longer and slacker a bike gets, the more weight bias get balanced. I have ever put my whhels on a weight. but what I am pretty sure that the weight bias is more 60/40 then 70/30. I am riding a Geometron G1 with 62.5 head angle and 1357mm wheelbase.
> 
> It is a totally different way to ride then a old style bike, since you are more between the whhels then on top. Still I am not using less pressure in my fork. Maybe I could, since the bike is so tremendously controlled. Though I am not interested in alter the geometry of the bike with riding the fork with much lower dynamic sag.
> 
> ...


I can't help but agree with you.

I'm on an Evolink 158 with Dorado irt.

You might have missed the mark slightly on how the IRT affects stroke (or by high IRT pressure you mean REALLY high).

Bottom out spacers give the massive ramp up. The way I view the IRT is that you get the top/mid-stroke of a ton of bottom-out spacers, but it functionally removes the spacers the deeper you get in to travel.

So it softens bottom out, not firms up.

Running the isothermal sums on a dorado you get pretty close to a linear rate with the IRT pressure double that of the primary.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Agree that the Manitou probably is the best single fork long travel fork out there, and will not discuss around that.

What I am searching for, is the answer of what is the problem about DC fork? 2000 gram fork or 2300 gram fork, for me is that a minor weight difference. I am using 1500 gram tyres with tyre inserts weighing 300-400 gram in addition. I am carrying backpack, water and equipment of maybe 3000+ gram?

I will agree about the coil solution, if you said hybrid coil/air or coil/coil solution from Avalanche Downhill Racing. The reason is the equal force theory from AVA, that makes sure that the uneven force applied from having spring on only one side is eliminated. 
And of course with the AVA open cartridge damper you will get a superior damper unit.



Nurse Ben said:


> In that case, I'd just run a coil and call it good.
> 
> The goal with the newer gen air forks is to create a fork that weighs less, has fewer limitations than a dual crown, and has the suppleness of a coil spring.
> 
> ...


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> I see no reason to run a dual crown, *nor do all those pro enduro racers*.


Not this **** again ffs...Pros run what they are given for free, if their CSU creaks after race weekend, they will get a new one there and then. They are paid to make you feel like you do about SC forks you know? SC forks have their limitations and 180mm 29er fork is is pushing them quite far.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Agree that the Manitou probably is the best single fork long travel fork out there, and will not discuss around that.
> 
> What I am searching for, is the answer of what is the problem about DC fork? 2000 gram fork or 2300 gram fork, for me is that a minor weight difference. I am using 1500 gram tyres with tyre inserts weighing 300-400 gram in addition. I am carrying backpack, water and equipment of maybe 3000+ gram?
> 
> ...


A lot of frames cannot take a DC fork. If yours can, than go for it.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sorry, but that's not accurate. I'm sure the sponsored riders have to run what their sponsors want them to run, but they also have to show well. Pretty much all fork companies have a dual crown option, so choosing a single crown for enduro reflects a choice. There are even the occasional DH riders choosing a single crown.

180mm single crown forks work just fine, my Mezzer set at 180mm is stiffer than my Bomber Z1 set at 160mm, no issues with binding or twisting when ridden hard on either fork so I can't see any reason to ride a dual crown at this point.

I don't really buy into all the conspiracy stuff, it's just too simple to throw up a straw man argument like that and dismiss what makes sense: don't look for zebras, it's mostly horses.

So yeah, no dual crown fork needed at this point.



ghostbiker said:


> Not this **** again ffs...Pros run what they are given for free, if their CSU creaks after race weekend, they will get a new one there and then. They are paid to make you feel like you do about SC forks you know? SC forks have their limitations and 180mm 29er fork is is pushing them quite far.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

You are not correct, since there is big noticable binding and stiction in the SC forks. I have the proof since I took the same 2 month old fork, rebuild it to a DC and kept, all except the crown and air spring assembly.

It felt like comparing a functioning fork with a complete dry unservided fork.
So please explain to me what is going on?

I think we all SC riders does not know anything else. Of course we think it is working like it should.

Also nice to see other meaningful persons in the bike industry share the same thoughts: sjekk Rideformula an the interview of Jens Staudt from mtb-news.de








Nurse Ben said:


> Sorry, but that's not accurate. I'm sure the sponsored riders have to run what their sponsors want them to run, but they also have to show well. Pretty much all fork companies have a dual crown option, so choosing a single crown for enduro reflects a choice. There are even the occasional DH riders choosing a single crown.
> 
> 180mm single crown forks work just fine, my Mezzer set at 180mm is stiffer than my Bomber Z1 set at 160mm, no issues with binding or twisting when ridden hard on either fork so I can't see any reason to ride a dual crown at this point.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> The longer and slacker a bike gets, the more weight bias get balanced. I have ever put my whhels on a weight. but what I am pretty sure that the weight bias is more 60/40 then 70/30. I am riding a Geometron G1 with 62.5 head angle and 1357mm wheelbase.
> 
> It is a totally different way to ride then a old style bike, since you are more between the whhels then on top. Still I am not using less pressure in my fork. Maybe I could, since the bike is so tremendously controlled. Though I am not interested in alter the geometry of the bike with riding the fork with much lower dynamic sag.
> 
> ...


I ran dual crown forks for years in all my riding. Xvert DC from 2000 (I still have it) which I stretched out to 145mm and then Xvert Carbon 2000 model which I ran from 2003 until 2005 full time when I got a Nixon.

The biggest single issue is muppets thinking it'll stop them turning corners. It doesn't. But people won't buy them because they think that.

IRT is the only system that gives you more mid-stroke support on an air-spring. It also sounds like you need to run more LSC.

Whether a DC is going to help over a SC depends on what issues you have. You may be comparing a SC fork which has a particularly soft grip with a weak crown. I do some business repairing crown press-fits and I can tell you of one brand where the stanchions try to walk themselves out of the crown!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Proof is in the eyes of the beholder.

In the past year I have owned and ridden; in the same bike, a Lyric, Fox 36 Fit4, Z1/Smashpot, and a Mezzer.

The Lyric was my least favorite, never could get it to feel supple. The Fox 36 Fit damper sucks arse, nuff said. The Z1 as an air fork was pretty good, but with a Smashpot coil it was amazing.

The Mezzer ain't bad, still tweaking and getting used to how it rides, and though I miss my coil, I think the Mezzer is pretty good.

But one thing I can say about all these forks is that flex was never an issue and stiction was only an issue when compared with a coil fork.

Interestingly, the Mezzer is very much stiction free.

I'm 195# plus kit

So maybe the dual crown arguments could be shifted to another thread, this is the Mezzer thread ?



Rumblefish2010 said:


> You are not correct, since there is big noticable binding and stiction in the SC forks. I have the proof since I took the same 2 month old fork, rebuild it to a DC and kept, all except the crown and air spring assembly.
> 
> It felt like comparing a functioning fork with a complete dry unservided fork.
> So please explain to me what is going on?
> ...


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> Sorry, but that's not accurate. I'm sure the sponsored riders have to run what their sponsors want them to run, but they also have to show well. *Pretty much all fork companies have a dual crown option*, so choosing a single crown for enduro reflects a choice. There are even the occasional DH riders choosing a single crown.


Most racers ride for FOX/RS and as far as I know they don´t have anything else other than pure DH DC forks, sure you can lower them, but it´s not hte same as dedicated design, not to mention that those very same companies have X number of riders showcasing those very same forks in DH WC. Only enduro oriented DC forks seem to be MRP Bartlett. Or aforementioned MOJO MORC conversion kit, I wouldn´t expect to see either of them at EWS though. And just because you think that 180mm mezzer is stronger than 160mm Bomber it doesn´t make that a fact, even if that was the case it´s not saying much as 36/Bomber is know to be the least torsionally stiff forks of the enduro bunch while mezzer is the stiffest. Only things that stop DC forks becoming a lot more common is frame compatibility, weight and prejudice.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I do not bother what other people say, but I do not want to spend thousand of dollars, and then have a front end that is like spaghetti. For me it is the most important feature beside brakes, to have a front end that is the best. 

Why bother with all kind of top notch quality parts, putting it all on needle sticks


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

scottzg said:


> My pet theory is that the folks running silly-soft forks are long time riders who learned their technique in the bad old days. The old bikes you hung off the bars and leaned back, and only shifted in to a central position for cornering. If you do that on a modern bike having it under sprung tips the bike to your advantage, and better reflects weight distribution.
> 
> Novice and/or defensive riders tend to underweight the front end too, and they're also gonna like that set up as well.


It also comes down to what you are used to, from previous forks/bikes.

My prior few forks were pretty firmly damped (Helm, FIT4, Ribbon) and I ride the front of the bike pretty hard, our terrain can also be steep, which requires a lot of heavy braking. I think a lot of preference comes from those forks being able to support that type of riding, but it also being what I'm used to. If you came from a lighter damped or softer fork, I could see how running the recommended pressures would be too high.

If I ran the same pressures Dougal does (adjusted for weight), I'd end up hurting myself, even though we have really rough, chunky terrain here. For me, running that much sag in the front puts too much weight bias over the front of the bike, then I have to run the rear a lot lower to match it and keep the bike balanced. It results in a lot of dive, a really weird geometry on the bike, and I find it less supportive.

Oddly enough, when I really notice something is too soft is when I'm going slow. When I'm going faster, the activity of the front seems a bit more obscured and dive is less likely, it also seems like it's easier to stay centered. When I'm on slower sections, where you have to really push into the front to roll drops and move your body around, that's when I notice the fork diving or pulling me forward when the air spring isn't setup the way I'm used to.

I found the recommended main pressures pretty close, but the IRT pressures were a bit on the high side. I think I dropped 3-4psi from the recommended IRT pressure, which still provides a good ride height, support, and tracking. I've lost about 20lbs since I first posted about the fork, so I've been able to experiment with it across a weight range. Compared to my previous fork, the Helm, I found the recommended settings too soft, but over time I started dialing them back to the recommended settings and found them to work really well.

I think a lot of this goes to show how nice it is to have something like the IRT vs tokens, where you have a lot more granular adjustment of the air spring compared to other options out there, which allows it to more easily match different preferences and experiences.

One thing I'll add is that at 61m/87irt, I'm finding that I'm fairly open on the rebound adjuster. I think I'm only 2-3 clicks off open. When I was heavier, running 71/95, I obviously had a bit more, but would have expected in both cases to be a bit closer to closed off. It does make me think there may be some room for improvement on the rebound tuning.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Current set up: Mezzer 180mm, 38/75, HSC 0-1, LSC 4, R 5

I rode last night on my backyard trails, it's moderate terrain with a few small jumps, some ugly off piste baby head stuff, and I never felt any issues with dive, nor did I feel like my fork wasn't recovering. 

The lower main pressure seems to be working for little hits, higher IRT supports through the middle and prevents dive, still not bottoming out.

One of my "goals" in setting up the suspension is to use an open HSC on the fork for general riding, then use one or two clicks of HSC when things get steep and the depth of the hits increase.

I tend to ride forward, so I run my backend kinda soft, but when I'm comparing front-back feel on flat terrain, I seek a balance, which the IRT seems to do as it supports the middle of the stroke without making the initial stroke harsh.

My HTA is 65 deg, slack, but not overly so for an enduro bike. This is my every day driver until my Trail Pistol is built.

Isn't it curious how wide the disparity is between pressures? Some folks just like a firmer ride.

Folks should note that the lower the volume, the higher the pressure, ie longer travel = lower pressure.

I like the Mezzer so far, it's at least at good as the Grip dampered Z1 as an air fork, still not quite on par with the ZI/Vorsprung combo, but it's also 500gms lighter!

I'm really impressed with the Mara Pro, set it and forget it. Work mode is not a lockout, serves as a second setting that is actually usable for riding. Still playing with the shock, but my hope is that I can use the work mode in conjunction with increased HSC (4 clicks) on the Mezzer to have two separate set ups.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Isn't it curious how wide the disparity is between pressures? Some folks just like a firmer ride.


On top of personal preference, terrain, travel settings ext.... The range of accuracy on shock pumps is ridiculous. I own 4 shock pumps. Between the 4, there is a 12psi difference in what they read. The two analog pumps are 12psi different( both RS branded), the two digital fall directly in-between and have a 3psi difference between them. I believe my two analog pumps are both on the more extreme side this, but its not an uncommon problem.

For example, your set up is almost identical to mine in terms of spring curve, assuming you are 27.5 at 160mm (me 48/85, you 38/75). If the pump I'm using reads high and yours reads low, we are even closer than that. Either way, our over all spring curves are very similar.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mullen119 said:


> On top of personal preference, terrain, travel settings ext.... The range of accuracy on shock pumps is ridiculous. I own 4 shock pumps. Between the 4, there is a 12psi difference in what they read. The two analog pumps are 12psi different( both RS branded), the two digital fall directly in-between and have a 3psi difference between them. I believe my two analog pumps are both on the more extreme side this, but its not an uncommon problem.
> 
> For example, your set up is almost identical to mine in terms of spring curve, assuming you are 27.5 at 160mm (me 48/85, you 38/75). If the pump I'm using reads high and yours reads low, we are even closer than that. Either way, our over all spring curves are very similar.


Yes, totally, forgot to bring that up, shock pumps are like people; we each have our own personality.

I use a Lezyne Shock Drive for all my set ups, $50, it has good reviews for consistency:

https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/hand-pumps-shock-pumps/products/1-mp-shkdr-v204

Anyone using the shock pump that came with their fork needs to reconsider, those things can vary by 10-20% in back to back testing.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

You are right, if I had used these low pressure (weight wise) like is suggested here from a few, I would hurt myself too.



Adodero said:


> It also comes down to what you are used to, from previous forks/bikes.
> 
> My prior few forks were pretty firmly damped (Helm, FIT4, Ribbon) and I ride the front of the bike pretty hard, our terrain can also be steep, which requires a lot of heavy braking. I think a lot of preference comes from those forks being able to support that type of riding, but it also being what I'm used to. If you came from a lighter damped or softer fork, I could see how running the recommended pressures would be too high.
> 
> ...


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

I've been running the lower pressures for a long time now, 35/75, lsc 1 click, hsc 2 clicks. I'm 190 with gear, riding this bike








its a 27.5/26 mullet, 180mm front, 185mm rear travel, 1260 wheelbase and rides amazing in attack position over the front of the bike. I shot some video recently where the camera unfortunately shifted away from the trail but did get a good view of the fork in action, 



 from 1:22-1:55. The fork stays high in the travel, but is incredibly supple and provides amazing grip and front end traction. It doesnt blow through the travel on chatter and does not bottom with the 2 clicks of hsc. I'm blown away every time I ride.


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Current set up: Mezzer 180mm, 38/75, HSC 0-1, LSC 4, R 5
> 
> I rode last night on my backyard trails, it's moderate terrain with a few small jumps, some ugly off piste baby head stuff, and I never felt any issues with dive, nor did I feel like my fork wasn't recovering.
> 
> ...


Lots of factors....but one often overlooked in rider height. For the same weight, somebody who is 6-4 vs somebody who is 5-9 may need fairly different pressure as you can put quite a bit more leverage on front (and back) of bike.

Learned this riding moto, the shop that does my suspension always bumps up spring rate if you are a taller rider and in upper weight range for current spring rate. If you are shorter, they don't bother. Doesn't make it gospel (of course) but certainly makes sense and they've never done me (or any of the local guys) wrong....


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

mullen119 said:


> On top of personal preference, terrain, travel settings ext.... The range of accuracy on shock pumps is ridiculous. I own 4 shock pumps. Between the 4, there is a 12psi difference in what they read. The two analog pumps are 12psi different( both RS branded), the two digital fall directly in-between and have a 3psi difference between them. I believe my two analog pumps are both on the more extreme side this, but its not an uncommon problem.
> 
> For example, your set up is almost identical to mine in terms of spring curve, assuming you are 27.5 at 160mm (me 48/85, you 38/75). If the pump I'm using reads high and yours reads low, we are even closer than that. Either way, our over all spring curves are very similar.


True, but just about everyone uses the same pump, so it doesn't much matter.



RadBartTaylor said:


> Lots of factors....but one often overlooked in rider height. For the same weight, somebody who is 6-4 vs somebody who is 5-9 may need fairly different pressure as you can put quite a bit more leverage on front (and back) of bike.
> 
> Learned this riding moto, the shop that does my suspension always bumps up spring rate if you are a taller rider and in upper weight range for current spring rate. If you are shorter, they don't bother. Doesn't make it gospel (of course) but certainly makes sense and they've never done me (or any of the local guys) wrong....


Yah but bikes are sized for the rider and motos aren't. In theory your CoM has the same relationship to the tire contact patch regardless of your height.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

scottzg said:


> True, but just about everyone uses the same pump, so it doesn't much matter.


I'm not referring to peoples pumps being off messing with their setup, that its obviously eliminated if you use the same pump as you stated. I'm referring to people comparing setups and thinking their pressures are low or high based on what their pump is reading.


----------



## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

scottzg said:


> True, but just about everyone uses the same pump, so it doesn't much matter.
> 
> Yah but bikes are sized for the rider and motos aren't. In theory your CoM has the same relationship to the tire contact patch regardless of your height.


Meh, not so sure about that...shifting CoM doesn't necessarily scale with height and bike size, I'm guessing it's not something any manuf designs for.

Not to mention many bike manuf. don't adjust CS length, which throws the CoM thing out the door.

While it's true you can't drastically change a Moto's geometry, you certainly do have an element of sizing with bar offset, bar width, bar rise, peg drop....I bet overall it's close to M - XL sizing on most MTB's.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> You are right, if I had used these low pressure (weight wise) like is suggested here from a few, I would hurt myself too.


You guys should try it some-time.

What I'm doing is bracketing setup. I've found as soft as I can run it for trail and what I think is my ideal trail setup. 
I've found a first gravity setup and will see how that works for trail.

Experimenting with setup takes a while. Just remember to write down where you were at.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bracketing works, but honestly I just followed the advice you and Mullen posted and I'm feeling pretty good about my ballpark set up.

It's winter here, so I'm not getting quite the epics I'll get come summer, but if it keeps warming up I'll push higher into the hill.

Hurricane MTB fest in March ?



Dougal said:


> You guys should try it some-time.
> 
> What I'm doing is bracketing setup. I've found as soft as I can run it for trail and what I think is my ideal trail setup.
> I've found a first gravity setup and will see how that works for trail.
> ...


----------



## will1994 (Mar 24, 2015)

*Rebound knob stuck*

Hello, I've made a similar post in the Manitou Mattoc forum thread but thought I might be more likely to receive a response here as the question pertains to the MC2 damper which I guess is common between the Mattoc and the Mezzer.
I've just finished adjusting the travel on my new Pro Boost Mattoc and upon reassembly noticed that the rebound knob is now completely jammed. Prior to my (obviously hamfisted) dissasembly of the fork the rebound was functioning perfectly well, so it isn't a manufacturing error. Does anyone with experience with the MC2 damper, particularly the 'Pro' rebound assembly on the Mattoc, have any suggestions as to what I've buggered up and how I might fix it? Thank you very much indeed to anyone who can help.


----------



## romphaia (Sep 7, 2014)

Does anyone, by chance, have measured the lenght (or the actual travel) of the IRT piston?
I'm curious to see how they set the total travel/IFP travel ratio, also compared to the Mattoc's IRT and other similar systems.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

romphaia said:


> Does anyone, by chance, have measured the lenght (or the actual travel) of the IRT piston?
> I'm curious to see how they set the total travel/IFP travel ratio, also compared to the Mattoc's IRT and other similar systems.


Just pull it out and measure it.

I took mine out the other and from memory it was ~30-40mm between base and sealing puck


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

romphaia said:


> Does anyone, by chance, have measured the lenght (or the actual travel) of the IRT piston?
> I'm curious to see how they set the total travel/IFP travel ratio, also compared to the Mattoc's IRT and other similar systems.


Just pulled the IRT out and max travel is 66.5mm


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romphaia said:


> Does anyone, by chance, have measured the lenght (or the actual travel) of the IRT piston?
> I'm curious to see how they set the total travel/IFP travel ratio, also compared to the Mattoc's IRT and other similar systems.


Yes. Mezzer has a shorter IRT and is more progressive than the Mattoc.

You can't have more travel, a bigger negative chamber AND a bigger IRT chamber.


----------



## romphaia (Sep 7, 2014)

robmac48 said:


> Just pulled the IRT out and max travel is 66.5mm


Cool, thanks!



Dougal said:


> Yes. Mezzer has a shorter IRT and is more progressive than the Mattoc.
> 
> You can't have more travel, a bigger negative chamber AND a bigger IRT chamber.


You know, I have an old first gen 36 TALAS that, despite performing very badly in its original form, current fork manifacturers could take a few clues from its design (it also was one of the first using a dual positive chamber). It has an oversize air shaft (22mm!) that has two advantages:
first, it decreases the volume of the lower leg "progressivity chamber" and therefore its compression ratio, removing the need to move the seal head up the stanchion thus taking away valuable space.
second, it allows to use the internal air shaft volume for even greater negative chamber, even more than current forks (about 10mm air shaft diameter). Which unfortunately the original TALAS didn't and it was the main reason for its bad performance.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romphaia said:


> You know, I have an old first gen 36 TALAS that, despite performing very badly in its original form, current fork manifacturers could take a few clues from its design (it also was one of the first using a dual positive chamber). It has an oversize air shaft (22mm!) that has two advantages:
> first, it decreases the volume of the lower leg "progressivity chamber" and therefore its compression ratio, removing the need to move the seal head up the stanchion thus taking away valuable space.
> second, it allows to use the internal air shaft volume for even greater negative chamber, even more than current forks (about 10mm air shaft diameter). Which unfortunately the original TALAS didn't and it was the main reason for its bad performance.


Everyone is using air shaft volume for negative now.

But a fatter shaft reduces the effect of the negative chamber. Smaller negative piston area vs positive. So you need a higher equalisation point to give more negative compression ratio and that causes a few other issues.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

I did a fork service today to prepare it for a trip to South Africa.

I found the lower leg bumpers had dislodged again. This happened when I first opened the fork to change travel. I just reseated them and all was fine for the previous service, but this time they were loose again. I guess I'll be warrantying the fork when I get back.

More worrying was that when I removed the lower legs, no oil came out of the damper side. It was dry apart from a couple of drops. When I pulled the damper the full 20ml of oil drained out of the stanchion. So if the oil is sitting up in the damper stanchion what's lubricating the bushes? It doesn't seem right. I store the bike on the ground so it's not like the oil had time to drain up into the damper leg. The damper and balloon appeared to be working properly. I don't mess with bleeding it.

I see the Adodero mentioned a similar issue with the oil migrating into the damper stanchion. Is this a common thing and is it by design? It just seems wrong that the bath oil is not in the leg to lube the bushes.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

trail-blazer said:


> I see the Adodero mentioned a similar issue with the oil migrating into the damper stanchion. Is this a common thing and is it by design? It just seems wrong that the bath oil is not in the leg to lube the bushes.


I had the same issue, as you noted. I haven't had a chance to drop them again and see what is causing it, there is supposed to be some space between the damper body and that lower plastic piece.

I've opened up the lowers a few times and found them pretty empty of bath oil, when I finally unthreaded the damper, a good bit came out. I didn't measure how much but it was a lot. I'm not sure why it's not migrating back down from inside the stanchion back to the lowers.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> I had the same issue, as you noted. I haven't had a chance to drop them again and see what is causing it, there is supposed to be some space between the damper body and that lower plastic piece.
> 
> I've opened up the lowers a few times and found them pretty empty of bath oil, when I finally unthreaded the damper, a good bit came out. I didn't measure how much but it was a lot. I'm not sure why it's not migrating back down from inside the stanchion back to the lowers.


This was part of my longer post from a couple of weeks ago: "As to that recent post about the damper side stanchion holding bath oil, I can now see how that might be possible. There is an o-ring around the damper where it seats in the support ring that screws into the bottom of the stanchion. While the ring has notches where a cassette tool is used to remove it, the o-ring pretty much cover the notches. Definitely not a real seal but it might just be enough to fake it. I cut a few of the notches a little deeper to allow for positive drainback. Probably not a big deal but it only took a minute."

It's super easy to make those notches deeper, I just used a small round file. It doesn't seem like that cap is intended to form a seal but apparently with that o-ring on the damper body it's sometimes enough to hold oil back.

In other news, I am loving the Mezzer. One very nice well tricked out Fox 34 is going on eBay soon.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Velodonata said:


> This was part of my longer post from a couple of weeks ago: "As to that recent post about the damper side stanchion holding bath oil, I can now see how that might be possible. There is an o-ring around the damper where it seats in the support ring that screws into the bottom of the stanchion. While the ring has notches where a cassette tool is used to remove it, the o-ring pretty much cover the notches. Definitely not a real seal but it might just be enough to fake it. I cut a few of the notches a little deeper to allow for positive drainback. Probably not a big deal but it only took a minute."
> 
> It's super easy to make those notches deeper, I just used a small round file. It doesn't seem like that cap is intended to form a seal but apparently with that o-ring on the damper body it's sometimes enough to hold oil back.
> 
> In other news, I am loving the Mezzer. One very nice well tricked out Fox 34 is going on eBay soon.


So you're talking about filing the notches a little deeper that the cassette tool would engage in on the white plastic cap on the bottom of the stanchion?

I didn't really pay too much attention to that plastic cap or how the damper shaft is sealing it as I didn't have the time yesterday but I was thinking of maybe drilling three to four 1.5mm or 2mm holes in the bottom of that cap to allow the oil to drain back out.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> So you're talking about filing the notches a little deeper that the cassette tool would engage in on the white plastic cap on the bottom of the stanchion?


Yep, that's all it takes to insure that the o-ring can't cover them up. I think I filed 3 or 4 of the notches maybe a few millimeters deeper. It was just a precautionary thing while I had it apart anyway, I had been curious about it since reading the previous reports of the stanchion holding oil.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm wondering why you guys have this oil entrapment issue and it's not happening in my Mezzer or my demo ones......

If you stroke the damper with the lower legs off, can you hear air moving through the end-cap as the bladder changes volume inside the stanchion?
I can hear air whistling through on mine.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I'm wondering why you guys have this oil entrapment issue and it's not happening in my Mezzer or my demo ones......
> 
> If you stroke the damper with the lower legs off, can you hear air moving through the end-cap as the bladder changes volume inside the stanchion?
> I can hear air whistling through on mine.


I also have not come across this issue, but am interested in finding out why its effecting some people and not others

To the people with the issue, how are you storing your bikes? (Hanging or upside down in any way?)

Also, can you give the build dates off if your boxes?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> I'm wondering why you guys have this oil entrapment issue and it's not happening in my Mezzer or my demo ones......
> 
> If you stroke the damper with the lower legs off, can you hear air moving through the end-cap as the bladder changes volume inside the stanchion?
> I can hear air whistling through on mine.


So I didn't actually confirm that I had the problem since it was new when I opened it up but it seemed like an easy thing to make it less likely. Based on the reports of some people noticing it, and my own observation that it might be possible, I went ahead and invested a couple of minutes in prevention. If you have observed audible whistling, that would also indicate the gap is tight enough to produce a whistle. I'm not even completely sure why that cap exists, it must be to provide support to keep the damper shaft aligned, but it seems questionable that the damper would need it, and it's a loose fit. And what is the purpose of the o-ring, just to provide a buffer between the damper and the end cap? It seems possible that in some cases the o-ring is doing what o-rings usually do.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> So I didn't actually confirm that I had the problem since it was new when I opened it up but it seemed like an easy thing to make it less likely. Based on the reports of some people noticing it, and my own observation that it might be possible, I went ahead and invested a couple of minutes in prevention. If you have observed audible whistling, that would also indicate the gap is tight enough to produce a whistle. I'm not even completely sure why that cap exists, it must be to provide support to keep the damper shaft aligned, but it seems questionable that the damper would need it, and it's a loose fit. And what is the purpose of the o-ring, just to provide a buffer between the damper and the end cap? It seems possible that in some cases the o-ring is doing what o-rings usually do.


The cap is there to provide enough flat area for the bottom-out bumpers to act on. Otherwise you're presenting a pretty thin stanchion edge into a bumper and it'll just get cut.

The o-ring is there to keep the damper quietly centered. You don't want knocking noises from the damper flexing into the plastic cap. On my fork it wasn't possible for the cap to seal against the damper with the o-ring.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> The cap is there to provide enough flat area for the bottom-out bumpers to act on. Otherwise you're presenting a pretty thin stanchion edge into a bumper and it'll just get cut.
> 
> The o-ring is there to keep the damper quietly centered. You don't want knocking noises from the damper flexing into the plastic cap. On my fork it wasn't possible for the cap to seal against the damper with the o-ring.


Oh duh, yeah I even remember putting the errant bumper up against that cap before I reseated it. And the o-ring makes sense as a buffer for the damper hitting the cap but why not just make the cap opening big enough that the damper couldn't hit it? They lose the ability to remove it with a cassette tool then, and maybe the support is helpful? Do they design a little compliance into the damper to account for flex and play in the fork legs? Anyway, I can't say that I confirmed that the o-ring can seal the stanchion, but it looked close enough to be a possibility. Drilling holes or deepening a few grooves is an easy and harmless fix for what may or may not be a problem.

Despite this maybe issue, I did really like the way the fork goes together and is constructed. It's super easy to work on. A nice bonus to go along with the performance advantage.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mullen119 said:


> I also have not come across this issue, but am interested in finding out why its effecting some people and not others
> 
> To the people with the issue, how are you storing your bikes? (Hanging or upside down in any way?)
> 
> Also, can you give the build dates off if your boxes?


I store my bike on the ground on it's wheels against a wall so the oil should drain to the bottom of the legs.

There is definitely a seal like effect where the damper rod passes through the plastic guide in the stanchion otherwise the oil would drain out.

I'll check the build date in the morning.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

For reference my fork manufacture date is July 15th 2019.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mezzer tweaking:

Initial feel was soft like butter, ramp up through the midstroke still felt a tad firm and out of sync with my rear end, so I dropped the IRT to 70 and kept the main at 40.

Ride this morning felt better, though I had to add a click of rebound cuz it was a bit bouncy, tamed it nicely, still not a coil spring but feeling good enough.

Still looking for a front end feel to match my amazing rear suspension, love that Mara!

Edit: Still haven't got the bike onto serious terrain as we're a touch snowed in, but so far I've had no issues with knocking or any reason to suspect the fork was not properly assembled.

This ^ is a good reason to wait a bit before getting a new product.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Mezzer tweaking:
> 
> Initial feel was soft like butter, ramp up through the midstroke still felt a tad firm and out of sync with my rear end, so I dropped the IRT to 70 and kept the main at 40.
> 
> ...


Drop another 10 out of IRT and see how you like it.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Drop another 10 out of IRT and see how you like it.


I will, maybe tomorrow. Still only using 165-170/180mm travel, but I have yet to really push the bike. I'm curious how the fork will handle bottom out, also interested to see how adding a click or two of compression allows more aggressive use without adding air.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I will, maybe tomorrow. Still only using 165-170/180mm travel, but I have yet to really push the bike. I'm curious how the fork will handle bottom out, also interested to see how adding a click or two of compression allows more aggressive use without adding air.


You won't notice full travel unless you're riding off your garage roof. I can use full travel and occasionally throw the travel check o-ring hard up against the crown. Still haven't felt or heard the stops. Thank you HBO!

My air pressure setting has migrated to 40/60psi after a few runs here: https://www.cardrona.com/summer/bike/mountain-bike-info/
Ignore the smooth jump lines, this is more what I ride there: 









35/75 felt perfect on the smoother, loamier and more winding tracks at Coronet Peak: https://shop.coronetpeak.co.nz/mountain-biking
But I needed more mid-stroke for Cardronas broken rocks.

This is just a reminder that it takes months to finally dial in a setup that does everything well.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Okay, too much talk, post your settings:

Rider: 86kg/190# plus kit
Style: All mountain, enduro, natural features
Bike: GG Megatrail 155mm travel
Fork: Mezzer 180mm
{Note: all adjustments from full open}
IRT 70
Main 40
R 5
LSC 4
HSC 1-2


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, too much talk, post your settings:
> 
> Rider: 86kg/190# plus kit
> Style: All mountain, enduro, natural features
> ...


I assume your settings are click in from full open?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I'm about 200 geared up:

Bike: 2020 Specialized Enduro
Main: 61
IRT: 87
LSC: 4 (from open)
HSC: 0
R: 3 (from open)

I could probably slow the rebound a bit, I didn't realize it was as open as it is.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Isn't it best to count from fully closed? That's what I was told.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

For the preferences can we all state counter clockwise clicks from fully closed then it'll be consistent? I'll post up settings once the new lowers get to me and I've tested the forks again.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, adventure van guy 🙄



mullen119 said:


> I assume your settings are click in from full open?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, and the fork travel, gotta have the fork travel or it's not gonna work.



robmac48 said:


> For the preferences can we all state counter clockwise clicks from fully closed then it'll be consistent? I'll post up settings once the new lowers get to me and I've tested the forks again.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Hi,

Until now I am jot fuply satisfied yet, how the firo opens up, when a sudden large squere edged hit ocvures in comparison to my AWK YARI with tuning cartrudge where the edge of the hit is not transferred to the hands. I have yet now to test a little less oressure in the main chanber as last hope, but i fear support will suffer to much from that step. 
Can you please post the stock compressiom shim configuration and which one I should leave out or exchange against a thinner one? 
Because that would be my next trie To make the hsc open a bit smoother.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

robmac48 said:


> For the preferences can we all state counter clockwise clicks from fully closed then it'll be consistent? I'll post up settings once the new lowers get to me and I've tested the forks again.


Yes, from full closed is the way to be consistent. Full open can vary from fork to fork a little bit (with any fork or shock). The only setting that should be counted from full open is is the Mara HSC setting (consistent setting is actually full open in it)

Travel setting should be included as well. Air spring pressures ride as travel settings get shorter.


----------



## Shlec (Jan 21, 2018)

*Travel Adjustment*

Hi Guys,

I am looking at building up a new bike with a Pair of Manitou Mezzers & Mara shock . I own a pair of mattocs which I really like so hopefully i will like the Mezzers. I am buying a Alu Jeffsy 29er and stripping the parts off it however the jeffsy 29er is designed for 150mm of travel upfront.

Does anyone know if the Mezzer 29er can be adjusted to 150mm with the supplied internal spacers i.e does it come with enough ( I presume 3)?
On the Manitou website its slightly confusing.
On the key features section it states: 
"140mm to 180mm internally adjustable travel in 10mm increments (travel spacers included)"
On the specs section it states:
"Travel 160mm, 170mm, 180mm"

Also do you need specific Manitou tools to change the travel like the Mattoc's.

Cheers
Alec


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Shlec said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am looking at building up a new bike with a Pair of Manitou Mezzers & Mara shock . I own a pair of mattocs which I really like so hopefully i will like the Mezzers. I am buying a Alu Jeffsy 29er and stripping the parts off it however the jeffsy 29er is designed for 150mm of travel upfront.
> 
> ...


Mine came with enough spacers to go down to 140mm

You just need a cassette tool (and wrenches for the foot bolts) It is not required that it is slotted, though it does make it a little easier if it is.

Use a Allen wrench and 8mm socket to keep the damper and air shafts from spinning when you tighten the foot bolts back up.


----------



## Shlec (Jan 21, 2018)

mullen119 said:


> Mine came with enough spacers to go down to 140mm
> 
> You just need a cassette tool (and wrenches for the foot bolts) It is not required that it is slotted, though it does make it a little easier if it is.
> 
> Use a Allen wrench and 8mm socket to keep the damper and air shafts from spinning when you tighten the foot bolts back up.


Perfect, I have the mattoc tools already. Looking forward to getting the fork and setuping it up!

Thankyou


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I know what the specs say, but I want to know what people have had success with:

Will Mezzer fit a 29 x 2.8"? 3.0"?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> I know what the specs say, but I want to know what people have had success with:
> 
> Will Mezzer fit a 29 x 2.8"? 3.0"?


Not trying to answer your question, just adding a data point.

A 27.5 Mezzer fits a 2.8 DFH/Scraper i45, 15mm tire to arch, so not enough room for a fender under the arch. The fender that comes with the fork runs under the arch, which sucks, and if you run a fender over the arch it hits the crown.

Any got a 29" Mezzer running fat tires? 
Maybe get an axle to arch measurement??


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Until now I am jot fuply satisfied yet, how the firo opens up, when a sudden large squere edged hit ocvures in comparison to my AWK YARI with tuning cartrudge where the edge of the hit is not transferred to the hands. I have yet now to test a little less oressure in the main chanber as last hope, but i fear support will suffer to much from that step.
> Can you please post the stock compressiom shim configuration and which one I should leave out or exchange against a thinner one?
> Because that would be my next trie To make the hsc open a bit smoother.


Stock compression shims: 
8x20x0.1, 8x17.5x0.1,78x17.5x0.1, 8x11x0.5mm

To determine exactly what you want or need is an involved process taking everything from bike geometry through weight and terrain into account. But taking out one of the 17.5mm shims will soften it up for you.

The Avalanche cartridges being open bath will always be working in more aerated oil. So the oil is a bit compressible and this makes the damping softer than the same valving will produce in a closed damper.

Taking the damper apart to get to the compression shims is tricky.



mikesee said:


> I know what the specs say, but I want to know what people have had success with:
> 
> Will Mezzer fit a 29 x 2.8"? 3.0"?


The biggest variance there is the tyres themselves. What brand/model and how do they measure on your rims?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Has everyone received their replacement lowers yet?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Adodero said:


> Has everyone received their replacement lowers yet?


Fedex tracking says mine arrive tomorrow


----------



## Shlec (Jan 21, 2018)

Does anyone know if the stock of Mezzers on Bike-Discount is Old or New stock?
Just wondering if i buy a pair will I have to instantly replace the lowers?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Shlec said:


> Does anyone know if the stock of Mezzers on Bike-Discount is Old or New stock?
> Just wondering if i buy a pair will I have to instantly replace the lowers?


I ordered mine (180mm/44 offset/29") from B-D in late December, at the time they were the only place that would take orders for the version I wanted and their price was very good. They were awaiting stock and it took a couple of weeks for it to ship, and a couple more to arrive. I expected new stock and was surprised to see it had a July 2019 build date. I observed that the original box tape had all been cut and the box had been resealed with Hayes branded tape. So my hope is that Hayes proactively checked and/or fixed some of their early production and recently put it back into distribution. The tape could also be meaningless and it's just been sitting around in a warehouse since last summer.

I covered most of this here recently, so I will just say that while the fork needed some minor proactive attention as many new forks seem to require, overall I'm very happy with it and it seems tight so far with probably close to 100 miles on it. So I need more time to be out of the woods for problems to show, and running it in short travel mode may make them less obvious, but I'm optimistic and have no regrets considering the time and money I have put into Fox forks over the years trying to get one to feel like this one did on the first ride.


----------



## slowjo (Dec 16, 2019)

mikesee said:


> I know what the specs say, but I want to know what people have had success with:
> 
> Will Mezzer fit a 29 x 2.8"? 3.0"?


A true 2.8 should fit, doubt a 3.0 will work though. With a Maxxis Rekon 29x2.6 mounted on a i30 wheel (measured 2.56 at widest point), I have 11mm at the narrowest point on the sides and 13mm at the tallest point of the tire. Without fender of course. There's no chance of their fender fitting with the 2.8. 
Here's a couple of pics with and without the fender:


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

*New lowers*

Well, at last my new lowers arrived! Difference to the bottom out bumpers is that they are now a split ring that I would think have been moulded in a larger diameter than the lower ID so when they are pushed in they have a bit of spring pressure creating friction holding them in place. High tech :lol:


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dropped the old lowers to swap for the new versions and look what came out of the damper side! This is Supergliss 100K with maybe an hour of riding on it...weird. Hasn't been ridden in the rain or even washed with water so I'm at a loss explaining it (ignore the rain drops, I carried the container outside for better a better view and it started raining).

Pulled the damper and the bladder is fine and bled correctly.

Put it all back together with 20ml of Supergliss 100K in each leg and I guess I'll just have another look on the next service.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So real similar to the 27.5 fit, tighter than some other forks, not really plus sized forks.



slowjo said:


> A true 2.8 should fit, doubt a 3.0 will work though. With a Maxxis Rekon 29x2.6 mounted on a i30 wheel (measured 2.56 at widest point), I have 11mm at the narrowest point on the sides and 13mm at the tallest point of the tire. Without fender of course. There's no chance of their fender fitting with the 2.8.
> Here's a couple of pics with and without the fender:


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Spoke to Hayes this morning, apparently the new lowers are still a month out for 29 forks.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Adodero said:


> Spoke to Hayes this morning, apparently the new lowers are still a month out for 29 forks.


Mine are 29er and I got them this week. Hayes do seem rather random with their comms don't they??


----------



## The Messiah (Apr 18, 2019)

Pretty horrible launch this from Manitou to think some on here have slated Fox for pissy bushing tolerances......


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

robmac48 said:


> Well, at last my new lowers arrived! Difference to the bottom out bumpers is that they are now a split ring that I would think have been moulded in a larger diameter than the lower ID so when they are pushed in they have a bit of spring pressure creating friction holding them in place. High tech :lol:
> 
> View attachment 1311475


LOL

My bumpers waggled around in the lowers too. IDK if i've ever had a fork where they didn't- why is this an issue? What advantage is there in having them stuck in the bottom, aside from the convenience of not having to verify they're lying flat?


----------



## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

The Messiah said:


> Pretty horrible launch this from Manitou to think some on here have slated Fox for pissy bushing tolerances......


Have to agree, no response to Pinkbike's review of the fork and general silence on the issue. Even just a statement to say we aware of the issue and a fix is coming and keep people up to date via social media.

Shortlist for my next bike is a Mezzer or the DVO Onyx SC. Had a few emails with DVO querying the fork and have been super helpful.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

shiny said:


> Have to agree, no response to Pinkbike's review of the fork and general silence on the issue. Even just a statement to say we aware of the issue and a fix is coming and keep people up to date via social media.
> 
> Shortlist for my next bike is a Mezzer or the DVO Onyx SC. Had a few emails with DVO querying the fork and have been super helpful.


There was supposed to be a release from Manitou about the issue, and they even had said statement floating around in emails. No idea why they decided to not release it publicly.

Its the best fork I have personally spent time on. The combination of quality damper, stiff and light weight chassis, and ability to match spring characteristics to any preference makes it quite the value. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try a lyrik with a push hc97 damper and coil conversation though. The cost is to high for me to justify though when a stock Mezzer checks all the boxes


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

The lack of a response to the Pinkbike article seems to follow policies of some companies I've worked for, which is not to reply and just quietly deal with it. TBH as critical as the mtb community can be, I can't really fault them for that approach. Sending your stuff to PB to review seems like a gamble anyway and their review reads like they rode it for 2 days and barely touched setup, but a negative review from PB has to hurt the business side of things, which is unfortunate. I know folks in the industry that said they've sent products to PB for review and they didn't bother touching them after a year or more. It's not a publication I give much weight, the folks at NSMB seem to be a lot more detail oriented and actually spend time riding the products they review.

That said, I've had mine since early August and to keep hearing that it's a few weeks out has gotten a bit old. IMO they could have done a better job communicating with early adopters.

The only other fork I've considered is the Onyx. My experiences with DVO were really good, they have great support and the Onyx my friend just got looks really nice. Just don't use Maxima or RS fluid in their forks, his shop did and you could barely compress the damper rod by hand. That said, I think the Mezzer feels a bit better than other DVO forks I've had, I much prefer IRT on the spring side and the DVO dampers seem a bit overdamped, although not as much as the GRIP2.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Adodero said:


> The lack of a response to the Pinkbike article seems to follow policies of some companies I've worked for, which is not to reply and just quietly deal with it. TBH as critical as the mtb community can be, I can't really fault them for that approach. Sending your stuff to PB to review seems like a gamble anyway and their review reads like they rode it for 2 days and barely touched setup, but a negative review from PB has to hurt the business side of things, which is unfortunate. I know folks in the industry that said they've sent products to PB for review and they didn't bother touching them after a year or more. It's not a publication I give much weight, the folks at NSMB seem to be a lot more detail oriented and actually spend time riding the products they review.
> 
> That said, I've had mine since early August and to keep hearing that it's a few weeks out has gotten a bit old. IMO they could have done a better job communicating with early adopters.
> 
> The only other fork I've considered is the Onyx. My experiences with DVO were really good, they have great support and the Onyx my friend just got looks really nice. Just don't use Maxima or RS fluid in their forks, his shop did and you could barely compress the damper rod by hand. That said, I think the Mezzer feels a bit better than other DVO forks I've had, I much prefer IRT on the spring side and the DVO dampers seem a bit overdamped, although not as much as the GRIP2.


You haven't received anything yet? That's surprising to me as a lot of people have, and fixed forks are back on the market now (after all stock was pulled once the issue was discovered). You would think forks in the wild would take priority.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Set up questions:

So I got this idea that I can get the Mezzer and Mara set up so that when I switch the Mara into work mode I can then add a couple clicks of HSC on the Mezzer and maintain a “balanced” feel.

Is this reasonable?

So I changed my set up slightly and modified my “count” so I’m counting from full closed:

Mezzer 180mm
Rider wt 190# nakid 
{counting from closed}
IRT 60psi
Main 40psi
HSC 2
LSC 3
R 5

Mara Pro 230 x 65
125psI
HSC 5-6
LSC 15
R 6

I reduced pressures to get a softer feel; yes, it’s far lower than recommended, but I tend to run my suspension soft (ex: 400-450# rear coil). It feels good for general trail riding, a little less harsh running though bumpy ground (just built a new trail which is always a little rough).

I’m using the majority of the travel, no bottom outs, depending on how I load the bikes sitting still, I’m using 25-35% of my travel as sag. Yeah, yeah, it’s a lot and that puts me further into my travel, but it rides better which is what matters 🙄

Edit: is anyone running a 2:1 ration of IRT to Main?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Set up questions:
> 
> So I got this idea that I can get the Mezzer and Nara set up so that when I switch the Mara into work mode I can then add a couple clicks if HSC on the Mezzer and maintain a "balanced" feel.
> 
> ...


Yes that's reasonable. Whole setup seems about where it should be.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I pulled my fork again today and found that, again, oil had migrated up around the damper. This time, I couldn't easily compress the damper rod and at about 40-50% of the rod compression, it would nearly stop.

After a few pushes (they were gentle, don't worry), a bunch of oil blew out around that white retaining bit at the bottom of the stanchion. I thought my damper exploded (mainly b/c a good bit of bath oil drained out when I dropped the lowers, normally when this has been an issue, very little has come out), but I pulled it out and it was fine (bladder was fine, works as expected).

I'm using 21cc, per the Manitou guide, of bath oil, but it seems like the oil is migrating up into the stanchion, not draining out, and resulting in the bladder not being able to expand. Either that or the damper is ingesting too much oil and blowing off, but I don't think that's the case.

I saw the suggestion above about filing out that plastic white retaining bit, but it seems like that may create another unintended damping circuit. OTOH, that seems to be what's happening here, where the damper can't compress properly until the oil is blown out, which only happens at certain random points.

Any thoughts?



mullen119 said:


> You haven't received anything yet?


I haven't received anything yet. I called earlier last week and was told it would be another month.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adodero said:


> I pulled my fork again today and found that, again, oil had migrated up around the damper. This time, I couldn't easily compress the damper rod and at about 40-50% of the rod compression, it would nearly stop.
> 
> After a few pushes (they were gentle, don't worry), a bunch of oil blew out around that white retaining bit at the bottom of the stanchion. I thought my damper exploded (mainly b/c a good bit of bath oil drained out when I dropped the lowers, normally when this has been an issue, very little has come out), but I pulled it out and it was fine (bladder was fine, works as expected).
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are ingesting oil up into the damper, then out the damper blow-off and into the upper stanchion.

I'd give customer service a call and see if they want anyone to take a look inside the damper.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Dougal said:


> It sounds like you are ingesting oil up into the damper, then out the damper blow-off and into the upper stanchion.
> 
> I'd give customer service a call and see if they want anyone to take a look inside the damper.


Yea, I was afraid that'd be the case, although I was hoping it was the bath oil trapped in the stanchion preventing the bladder from expanding, but that seems optimistic.

That said, the last time I ran into this issue, I just removed the damper assembly and the oil drained out without compressing the rod. I wish I had removed it when it was hard to compress rather than push on it again, so I could see if it was blowing out oil or not, but I think you are right. The thing that doesn't make much sense to me is how much oil came out, it was a pretty large quantity (at least 10cc), seems like more than the damper could hold.

Any suggestions on diagnosing the issue without sending it in? Would draining the air spring and cycling it in the rack be enough to induce the ingestion or no way of knowing for sure?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> I pulled my fork again today and found that, again, oil had migrated up around the damper. This time, I couldn't easily compress the damper rod and at about 40-50% of the rod compression, it would nearly stop.
> 
> After a few pushes (they were gentle, don't worry), a bunch of oil blew out around that white retaining bit at the bottom of the stanchion. I thought my damper exploded (mainly b/c a good bit of bath oil drained out when I dropped the lowers, normally when this has been an issue, very little has come out), but I pulled it out and it was fine (bladder was fine, works as expected).
> 
> ...


So the damper feels totally normal and the bladder expansion is as expected when removed and cycled by hand? That is really weird. I just seems unlikely that it could be able to ingest that much oil and not have some other problem that would be obvious. I could be crazy but it seems more likely that the combination of the cap and o-ring is acting like a check valve and sucking a little oil up on rebound and holding it, and then it takes a certain amount of pressure to blow it past the o-ring when it builds up.

I don't think there is any way cutting deeper grooves in the cap could act like a damper, it's just an easy path for drainback.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> So the damper feels totally normal and the bladder expansion is as expected when removed and cycled by hand? That is really weird. I just seems unlikely that it could be able to ingest that much oil and not have some other problem that would be obvious. I could be crazy but it seems more likely that the combination of the cap and o-ring is acting like a check valve and sucking a little oil up on rebound and holding it, and then it takes a certain amount of pressure to blow it past the o-ring when it builds up.
> 
> I don't think there is any way cutting deeper grooves in the cap could act like a damper, it's just an easy path for drainback.


Correct, the damper cycles normally outside of the stanchion. I also applied some pressure by hand when cycling it to the bladder, still cycles fine with no blowoff.

I'm going to ride it for a week or two, then pull the damper again without cycling it in the stanchion and see what it looks like or if it blows off under hand pressure.

It could also be both, the damper is blowing off and the oil isn't draining into the lowers, so it's pressurizing and preventing the damper from expanding until the pressure reaches enough to push past that o-ring. The quantity of oil that came out was significantly more than I would have expected the damper to be able to hold, so I expect it's both.

The reason I was worried about adding another damper was assuming that those cutouts would allow oil flow back up into the stanchion when the fork compressed to the point the bath oil was resting, but after more consideration, it seems like that'd be an issue even if they weren't cut out.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> Correct, the damper cycles normally outside of the stanchion. I also applied some pressure by hand when cycling it to the bladder, still cycles fine with no blowoff.
> 
> I'm going to ride it for a week or two, then pull the damper again without cycling it in the stanchion and see what it looks like or if it blows off under hand pressure.
> 
> ...


A couple of things I think you can count on- if the damper is working correctly and the bladder hasn't changed in expansion, you will have consistent amounts of oil in both in the damper and in the bath, even if some of that bath is collecting in the stanchion or somehow traded places with some of the damper oil.

I guess it's possible that it is also blowing off to the correct level but it seems unlikely.

-There is no way anything is stopping the bladder from expanding if it's full of oil, the bladder would pressurize the stanchion or if the stanchion was somehow full of oil and not draining you would feel a hydraulic lock as solid as if you put a broomstick in there.

But that's not likely either. I suppose you could intentionally put some oil in the stanchion with the lowers off and see how it drains as an experiment. Or just deepen the grooves and see if the issue goes away.

I can't think of a reason that promoting equal pressure and free flow between the inside and outside of the stanchion into the lowers is not a good thing. The lowers are constantly pressurizing and depressurizing as you ride, and if the white cap and damper body bumper/o-ring are acting like a seal or check valve between the chambers, it seems like it could cause some inconsistent oddness like you are observing.

My only motive for modifying the cap was to make sure the bath oil would stay in the lowers to do its job, I never really thought about the other effects of oil getting trapped in the stanchion.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> A couple of things I think you can count on- if the damper is working correctly and the bladder hasn't changed in expansion, you will have consistent amounts of oil in both in the damper and in the bath, even if some of that bath is collecting in the stanchion or somehow traded places with some of the damper oil.
> 
> I guess it's possible that it is also blowing off to the correct level but it seems unlikely.
> 
> ...


The bladder can only expand until it touches the stanchion. Then it's going to keep building pressure until it activates the spring loaded blow-off valve and squirts oil into the top of the stanchion.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> The bladder can only expand until it touches the stanchion. Then it's going to keep building pressure until it activates the spring loaded blow-off valve and squirts oil into the top of the stanchion.


Yeah I get that, but in theory if there was enough oil trapped in the stanchion to stop it before it got that full it would either hydrolock or blow something off, and blowing off into the stanchion wouldn't relieve that pressure.

Otherwise it would blow off pretty much immediately upon expanding to the stanchion walls.

If it were blowing off from being overfull/hitting the stanchion walls, wouldn't that still leave the bladder overfilled from where it is normally bled to? Or is it intended to max out very close to the stanchion limits with a regular bleed?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Yeah I get that, but in theory if there was enough oil trapped in the stanchion to stop it before it got that full it would either hydrolock or blow something off, and blowing off into the stanchion wouldn't relieve that pressure.
> 
> Otherwise it would blow off pretty much immediately upon expanding to the stanchion walls.
> 
> If it were blowing off from being overfull/hitting the stanchion walls, wouldn't that still leave the bladder overfilled from where it is normally bled to? Or is it intended to max out very close to the stanchion limits with a regular bleed?


Stanchion isn't oil tight though. It would also take ~100cc of oil to fill the stanchion to a hydrolock situation and the fork doesn't have that much.

The bladder is intended to max out against the stanchion. So it can safely use that blow-off valve without issues. This is what it will do if it is overfilled during a bleed or has ingested enough bath oil.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Stanchion isn't oil tight though. It would also take ~100cc of oil to fill the stanchion to a hydrolock situation and the fork doesn't have that much.
> 
> The bladder is intended to max out against the stanchion. So it can safely use that blow-off valve without issues. This is what it will do if it is overfilled during a bleed or has ingested enough bath oil.


Right, I agree with all that, just thinking out loud here trying to rule out highly unlikely scenarios and better understand how it is intended to work.

So a properly filled and bled damper would not normally be able to expand to the stanchion walls, and if the bladder seemed overfilled upon disassembly, it would be safe to assume that it may have reached that limit and blown off some excess oil at some point?

I guess what I'm getting at is, if Adodero's damper seems completely normal upon disassembly, it's probably not ingesting excessive amounts of bath oil and blowing it off inside the stanchion?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Right, I agree with all that, just thinking out loud here trying to rule out highly unlikely scenarios and better understand how it is intended to work.
> 
> So a properly filled and bled damper would not normally be able to expand to the stanchion walls, and if the bladder seemed overfilled upon disassembly, it would be safe to assume that it may have reached that limit and blown off some excess oil at some point?
> 
> I guess what I'm getting at is, if Adodero's damper seems completely normal upon disassembly, it's probably not ingesting excessive amounts of bath oil and blowing it off inside the stanchion?


Yes. but his appears to be ingesting and expelling more oil than most. So it'd be good to check that out.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

There's def. not 100ml blowing out. I could have believed that number existed the first time I noticed it, as I had done a few oil changes where the oil that drained from the lowers was not what was there to begin with because it had migrated up into the stanchion, but this last time, I know it was emptied and the only amount of oil possible would have been the 20ml. 

I put everything back together, I'll pull it after my next few rides and remove that plastic piece to ensure the stanchion is drained, then compress the rod and see if it spits oil out. I'm inclined to think Dougal is right, even if I don't want to deal with it, but I have some riding plans the next few weeks that I can't easily get out of, so I'll just have to deal with it until then. Should give me a chance to look at it again to verify that's what's going on. Riding it at Windrock should be enough to reproduce whatever is going on...


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> ...
> I put everything back together, I'll pull it after my next few rides and remove that plastic piece to ensure the stanchion is drained, then compress the rod and see if it spits oil out...


That would definitely be a smoking gun. Take pictures of the bladder at full compression when you have it apart, too.

It's working great, but I think I'm going to drop the lowers on mine before the weekend just to see how everything looks, and take a measurement of how fat the bladder is now with relatively low time on the fork.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> That would definitely be a smoking gun. Take pictures of the bladder at full compression when you have it apart, too.
> 
> It's working great, but I think I'm going to drop the lowers on mine before the weekend just to see how everything looks, and take a measurement of how fat the bladder is now with relatively low time on the fork.


Since you had the same issue, I'd be curious what you find.

What I found was that the damper rod would not compress beyond about 50% until the oil dumped out of the stanchion (while installed, as mentioned). I haven't really been riding that much due to the weather and time difference, so it's a bit surprising it was to the extent that it was.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Adodero said:


> Since you had the same issue, I'd be curious what you find.
> 
> What I found was that the damper rod would not compress beyond about 50% until the oil dumped out of the stanchion (while installed, as mentioned). I haven't really been riding that much due to the weather and time difference, so it's a bit surprising it was to the extent that it was.


If either of you get a chance to take a video of you pulling your forks apart, that would be great.

Specifically, if you can drop the lowers and take a picture or video showing how much bath oil comes out of each side.

Then remove the damper, preferably with a video showing if any oil drops out of the stanchion as the damper is removed. If you can't take a video, try to catch the oil in a clear container and take a picture of it.

Then lastly, a picture of the damper bladder when damper is at full extension.

Its a big ask from me, but there are a lot of theories on what may be happening to the few of you reporting this issue and this information will narrow it down to the specific issue (hopefully).

Lastly, please send me or Dougal a PM with your email addresses


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

^ I'd be happy to do this, but it may be 2-3 weeks. I need to give it time since I already opened it up, I'll need to make sure I give it enough time to reproduce it. 

Also, I got an update on the lowers. Apparently my info was entered incorrectly, sounds like they'll be shipping out in 2-3 weeks.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> Since you had the same issue, I'd be curious what you find.
> 
> What I found was that the damper rod would not compress beyond about 50% until the oil dumped out of the stanchion (while installed, as mentioned). I haven't really been riding that much due to the weather and time difference, so it's a bit surprising it was to the extent that it was.


Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have not had this problem, I'm just curious about your issue and want to better understand it to avoid any issues with mine. I only modified my cap as a proactive measure since it was super easy and I couldn't see how it could cause any problems to do so. The only internal problem with mine was a lack of lube in the IRT chamber and I fixed that before my first ride on it. The fork is working great, and I want to keep it that way. I'm going to pull the lowers just to make sure all looks normal, and to measure the bladder as a reference for future service.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have not had this problem, I'm just curious about your issue and want to better understand it to avoid any issues with mine. I only modified my cap as a proactive measure since it was super easy and I couldn't see how it could cause any problems to do so. The only internal problem with mine was a lack of lube in the IRT chamber and I fixed that before my first ride on it. The fork is working great, and I want to keep it that way. I'm going to pull the lowers just to make sure all looks normal, and to measure the bladder as a reference for future service.


Ah, understood!

I'll post photos and more details the next time I pull my fork apart, I'd expect a 3ish weeks from now.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Here's a different look - for those who haven't seen it


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Still playing with pressures, current pressure is 65/45. I find that big hit compliance is fine, but it's been hard to find a set up that handles repetitve small hits coming fast like you'd experience on a new trail. 

I've tried adding more and less rebound, adjusted HSC and LSC, but it's just not as supple as a coil. I'm not saying it rides poorly, it's far and away nicer riding that a Lyric or Fox 36 Fit4, but it's not as supple as a Grip dampered coil.

Positives: Hydraulic bottom out works as advertised, not unlike the Smashpot set up. The damper works well, decent range, no complaints. 

Oddly enough, the other day I was on PB looking for another coil fork and I chanced upon a deal on a demo Trust Shout; it arrives Wednesday. 

I know, I know, it's not something you want to be seen riding, kinda like that plus sized lady friend who is hot in bed; I'm feeling so non PC today 

So yeah, I'll probably have a Mezzer 27.5, 44mm offset 180mm travel fork for sale in a bit.


----------



## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Still playing with pressures, current pressure is 65/45. I find that big hit compliance is fine, but it's been hard to find a set up that handles repetitve small hits coming fast like you'd experience on a new trail.
> 
> I've tried adding more and less rebound, adjusted HSC and LSC, but it's just not as supple as a coil. I'm not saying it rides poorly, it's far and away nicer riding that a Lyric or Fox 36 Fit4, but it's not as supple as a Grip dampered coil.
> 
> ...


As I have said in the past... Ben you have a Forking Fork problem! And no, I am not buying this one from you!!!!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Still playing with pressures, current pressure is 65/45. I find that big hit compliance is fine, but it's been hard to find a set up that handles repetitve small hits coming fast like you'd experience on a new trail.
> 
> I've tried adding more and less rebound, adjusted HSC and LSC, but it's just not as supple as a coil. I'm not saying it rides poorly, it's far and away nicer riding that a Lyric or Fox 36 Fit4, but it's not as supple as a Grip dampered coil.
> 
> ...


If you've still got the chance. Drop main air pressure to 35psi.

The fork has more damping than you want for that riding with that air pressure. Dropping the spring pressure makes it work.

The alternative is to reshim the damper to reduce compression which I have done.

It will be very interesting to see how you compare the Trust. Any chance you can ride the Trust and then put the Mezzer back on for a ride or two on the same trails?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Still playing with pressures, current pressure is 65/45. I find that big hit compliance is fine, but it's been hard to find a set up that handles repetitve small hits coming fast like you'd experience on a new trail.
> 
> I've tried adding more and less rebound, adjusted HSC and LSC, but it's just not as supple as a coil. I'm not saying it rides poorly, it's far and away nicer riding that a Lyric or Fox 36 Fit4, but it's not as supple as a Grip dampered coil.
> 
> ...


Have you messed around with very small pressure changes? Like 1-2psi?

I agree with Dougal that dropping the main pressure is the way to achieve what you want. I don't know if I would make a huge change though.

At one point I was in the same situation you are. I started making 1 to 2 psi changes and found a sweet spot that blew me away. I found it very important that if you raise or lower your main chamber, that you need to compensate with a small change in the IRT to keep the support in the rest of the stroke. If I dropped 2 psi in the main, I would add 1.5 to 2 PSI in the IRT to compensate.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> If you've still got the chance. Drop main air pressure to 35psi.
> 
> The fork has more damping than you want for that riding with that air pressure. Dropping the spring pressure makes it work.
> 
> ...


I am keeping the Mezzer and for sure will swap back and forth unless I find the Shout absolutely amazing.

I agreed that small pressures changes make a difference, which is why I'm using a quality pump to fine tune the fork.

I'd be curious about the damper reshim, might be my next step.

I have three miles of trail from my back yard, so I have plenty of opportunity to compare forks


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

gregnash said:


> As I have said in the past... Ben you have a Forking Fork problem! And no, I am not buying this one from you!!!!


That's what you say now, but once you see my "preying mantis" buzzing the trail, you will so want one


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> That's what you say now, but once you see my "preying mantis" buzzing the trail, you will so want one


I find it amazing that we have people with the time and resources to test *ALL* the forks.

We just need to set you up with a review site.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ummm, isn't tid the review site? ?

If you'd put me up for a bit I'd come visit ?



Dougal said:


> I find it amazing that we have people with the time and resources to test *ALL* the forks.
> 
> We just need to set you up with a review site.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Ben and I are in similar boats, I just picked up a coil RXF36 M.2 to experiment with. I've been wanting to try a coil fork and Ohlins USA is local, so figured I'd try it out. I try something new every few months or so.

So far of the 7 forks (Fox 34 FIT4, Fox 36 FIT4, SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon air, Cane Creek Helm, Manitou Mezzer) I've had in the last year and a half, the Mezzer and the Helm are my two favorites in feel, although they are both really different feeling. The only two I downright hated were the Ribbon and 34 FIT4.

On the damper, I put some time in on the fork the last week or so, I stopped trailside to fiddle with it some yesterday and noticed it seemed a bit inconsistent after a little riding time. You'd press on it and it'd have some resistance, but follow-on compressions were softer until it had been ridden some more. I'll get the photo and oil quantity measurements we discussed earlier soon and see if I can reproduce it. 

Weird question, should the seal on the damper rod be capable of preventing oil from being ingested when the rod and seal (seal head?) are submerged in oil? The reason I ask, I wondered if I could submerge the lower part of the damper and cycle the rod to see if the bladder starts to bloat. Not sure if that'd be a worthwhile test or not. 

Lowers should be here next week.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adodero said:


> Ben and I are in similar boats, I just picked up a coil RXF36 M.2 to experiment with. I've been wanting to try a coil fork and Ohlins USA is local, so figured I'd try it out. I try something new every few months or so.
> 
> So far of the 7 forks (Fox 34 FIT4, Fox 36 FIT4, SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon air, Cane Creek Helm, Manitou Mezzer) I've had in the last year and a half, the Mezzer and the Helm are my two favorites in feel, although they are both really different feeling. The only two I downright hated were the Ribbon and 34 FIT4.
> 
> ...


For your oil ingestion question. I have compressed a Mezzer damper on the bench with a pressure guage on the lower bleed port. This showed at bench test speeds (chassis control speeds) the lower seal head is under positive pressure all the time.

At higher speeds I would expect this to remain the case, but I can't easily test it.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm 190lbs ready to ride on a 37mm offset 180mm travel Mezzer, settings are:

35psi main/75psi IRT
LSC 8 clicks from closed
HSC 2 clicks from closed
Rebound 3 clicks from closed

Works great, haven't had to tinker with it in a long time. I think an IRT/Main ratio of 2:1 or greater is the sweet spot, at least at my weight level.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

*The mara pro explode!*

Hello guys, i am here asking for some help.
When i adjusting the low speed compression of the mara pro rear shock, the low speed compression button explode. the fluid are everywhere and i have no idea why this happen.
before the explode happen, the high speed compression is already rigid and i can hardly rotate 6 clicks of the high speed compression.
should i still riding the bike with this shock?
what should i do?
here are some picture.


http://imgur.com/SY62eju


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Starry Firmament said:


> Hello guys, i am here asking for some help.
> When i adjusting the low speed compression of the mara pro rear shock, the low speed compression button explode. the fluid are everywhere and i have no idea why this happen.
> before the explode happen, the high speed compression is already rigid and i can hardly rotate 6 clicks of the high speed compression.
> should i still riding the bike with this shock?
> ...


There is a spring clip that holds the LSC needle in place and creates a hard stop for the adjuster. The spring clip must have not been installed correctly from the factory, so when you opened the LSC all the way, it when past the stop point and unthreaded the needle completely. The IFP then pushed all the oil out of the LSC port and you lost your bleed.

Its a warranty claim, email [email protected] if you are in the USA or your local distributor if you are anywhere else.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

thanks for your input.
i have already contact the haye techsupport.
and i will contact my local distributor too.
and i also want to ask about the sag setting for mezzer pro fork. (180mm 27.5")
i have reduce the main pressure to 30psi, but the sag didn't increase.
it remain in 20% sag. what would make it happen?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Starry Firmament said:


> thanks for your input.
> i have already contact the haye techsupport.
> and i will contact my local distributor too.
> and i also want to ask about the sag setting for mezzer pro fork. (180mm 27.5")
> ...


How much do you weigh?

Make sure you screw the pump on all the way until it fully bottoms out, not just when it charges the pump. There is a poppet valve in the air shaft that needs pushed down by the pump to allow the negative chamber to fill.

The reason sag is a measurement that matters very little for bicycles is because is really hard to get a quality measurement on. So don't get too hung up on sag numbers anyway. Worry mostly about ride quality.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

i just came back from a bike shop and you are right, the meachanics found out the spring clip is missing, also two bearing to produce click sound inside low speed compression button is gone missing too. so my meachanic refluid my rear shock and pump it up, put the needle in and remove the low spped compression button for me. i am gotta ask haye to sent me replacement spring clip and bearing.

for the mezzer pro,
i am 80kg. using 5wt oil.
and i lower the main pressure further more and the sag increase.
Thanks for your help!


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

My Mezzer developed quite a bit of stick-slip when "rolling around in the parking lot". Is this normal? Like when slightly pushing into the bike in a balanced position most of the time only the rear shock moves. Lower leg service didn't do anything about it. I don't specifically notice this on the trail but it doesn't really feel satisfying either when jumping on the bike if you get what I mean. Not used to this from Lyriks or 36s, they always basically felt as good as new after a lower leg service.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

no it is not. i don't have stick-slip on my mezzer pro.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

badIuck said:


> My Mezzer developed quite a bit of stick-slip when "rolling around in the parking lot". Is this normal? Like when slightly pushing into the bike in a balanced position most of the time only the rear shock moves. Lower leg service didn't do anything about it. I don't specifically notice this on the trail but it doesn't really feel satisfying either when jumping on the bike if you get what I mean. Not used to this from Lyriks or 36s, they always basically felt as good as new after a lower leg service.


That's not normal. Mine has a bit of stick if it has been sitting for a day, but after that first push is smooth.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like I will have to send it to Hayes if I want to get this sorted. The weird thing is that it feels like slightly tight bushings, which is not really possible since it didn't behave like this from the start. Everything inside the air spring, main seals etc seem to be in perfect condition and when I only move the air or damper rod they move super smooth..

One more "is it normal" question: When I attach my pump to the main chamber with the bike standing on the wheels oil gets into the pump and when I release air from the main chamber by pressing on the valve core it squirts oil as well. Where does this oil come from? I didn't fill the air chamber with oil. The lubrication oil from the lowers shouldn't find the way into the air chamber, should it?


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Does anyone have much time on their Mezzer in sub freezing temps? How does it do? I'm considering one for a new build and trying to gauge how well in performs in the 20-35F range, maybe with just lower oil change. Not interested in having to mess with the damper fluid.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

kiotae said:


> Does anyone have much time on their Mezzer in sub freezing temps? How does it do? I'm considering one for a new build and trying to gauge how well in performs in the 20-35F range, maybe with just lower oil change. Not interested in having to mess with the damper fluid.


I've ridden it in the high 20s a few times and it does better than other forks I've had, but it definitely changes. I've had forks that drop off big time when it gets below 40 (SR Suntour Auron), others that are less noticeable until it gets real cold (Ribbon, Sapphire), and others that it makes a more minor difference (Helm, Mezzer).

The Mezzer is probably the better of the ones I've had in the last few years as it gets colder, though. There is definitely a change, but it doesn't seem as dramatic as the others I've had. That said, our winter has been pretty mild, so I haven't spent a ton of time on it in super cold temps, but under 40 has been somewhat regular and under 30 a handful of times.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Adodero said:


> I've ridden it in the high 20s a few times and it does better than other forks I've had, but it definitely changes. I've had forks that drop off big time when it gets below 40 (SR Suntour Auron), others that are less noticeable until it gets real cold (Ribbon, Sapphire), and others that it makes a more minor difference (Helm, Mezzer).
> 
> The Mezzer is probably the better of the ones I've had in the last few years as it gets colder, though. There is definitely a change, but it doesn't seem as dramatic as the others I've had. That said, our winter has been pretty mild, so I haven't spent a ton of time on it in super cold temps, but under 40 has been somewhat regular and under 30 a handful of times.


Good to know, thanks. Did you make any oil changes to your Ribbon? That's what I'm riding now and it's okay in the 30's, but a brick below that.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

kiotae said:


> Good to know, thanks. Did you make any oil changes to your Ribbon? That's what I'm riding now and it's okay in the 30's, but a brick below that.


No, I should say that mine felt like crap even when it was warm out. It was just consistently crappy, so it didn't degrade into anything worse when it was cold.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Adodero said:


> No, I should say that mine felt like crap even when it was warm out. It was just consistently crappy, so it didn't degrade into anything worse when it was cold.


That seems to be a common complaint. Some definite qc issues.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

At 0°C I have to open the rebound as far as possible at 45 psi but it is still perfectly fine then and I run my rebound quite fast. Compression can easily be opened up enough for 0°C.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

*Dechrome Decals*

The chromed out stock decals are cool, but they don't work on my mostly black hole of a bike. Nobody seems to be willing to make them for the Mezzer so I had to do the graphics myself and then get them made by a sign company. If anybody wants the files drop me a PM.


----------



## kaffeejunk (Mar 14, 2020)

Hello, everybody,
I am currently considering to build the Mezzer into a Trail- / miniEnduro.
(https://www.last-bikes-shop.com/epa...ObjectPath=/Shops/62262325/Categories/GLEN_V1)
Suspension travel would be 160 in the front, 140 in the rear.
The alternative would be a Pike Ultimate.

Not sure it wouldn't be a little over-forked.

What u think?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

kaffeejunk said:


> Hello, everybody,
> I am currently considering to build the Mezzer into a Trail- / miniEnduro.
> (https://www.last-bikes-shop.com/epa...ObjectPath=/Shops/62262325/Categories/GLEN_V1)
> Suspension travel would be 160 in the front, 140 in the rear.
> ...


No idea about over-forked. Mine is on a hardtail.

I think the mezzer is the best fork i've ever used, and i've had multiple custom/professionally tuned forks, as well as several custom valved TOTL pikes (but none with the 2.1 damper). I think the pike is a huge underperformer, and the mezzer is in its own class.

I have friends whose i'd trust for advice who are super psyched on the newest RS offerings. They don't know any better.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

kaffeejunk said:


> Hello, everybody,
> I am currently considering to build the Mezzer into a Trail- / miniEnduro.
> (https://www.last-bikes-shop.com/epa...ObjectPath=/Shops/62262325/Categories/GLEN_V1)
> Suspension travel would be 160 in the front, 140 in the rear.
> ...


It´s not like it´s a DC fork you know...I would go for it if you like to mess with setup bit more than the average rider.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

kaffeejunk said:


> Suspension travel would be 160 in the front, 140 in the rear.
> The alternative would be a Pike Ultimate.
> 
> Not sure it wouldn't be a little over-forked.


I'm running it at 140mm on a 120mm rear travel bike that ships with a 130mm fork. I don't feel overforked at all, it feels spot on.


----------



## kaffeejunk (Mar 14, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> I'm running it at 140mm on a 120mm rear travel bike that ships with a 130mm fork. I don't feel overforked at all, it feels spot on.


A 140mm Mezzer? Doesnt it start at 160mm?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

kaffeejunk said:


> A 140mm Mezzer? Doesnt it start at 160mm?


Enough spacers included and it is said BY MANITOU to work at 140 mm as well


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

bansaiman said:


> Enough spacers included and it is said BY MANITOU to work at 140 mm as well


Yep, it shipped with enough spacers to run at any travel from 180 to 140. It makes for a very stout 140mm fork. It weighs about 6 ounces more than the tricked out Fox 34 Factory that it replaced, and rides about a pound of gold better.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

So i'm looking to replace my mattoc (pro2). Mezzer or a pike with smashpot/damper tune. Both at 160 (pike 42 offset v 37 for mattoc. Pike is sitting there in bro in laws house not getting used. Have coil at the rear. mattoc has the new seals already. mk1 patrol frame.

180lb kitted up, average rider; not very good jumper; drops are fine - ride rooty and rocky trails generally slowly lol and actual mountains.

In the UK


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

POAH said:


> So i'm looking to replace my mattoc (pro2). Mezzer or a pike with smashpot/damper tune. Both at 160 (pike 42 offset v 37 for mattoc. Pike is sitting there in bro in laws house not getting used. Have coil at the rear. mattoc has the new seals already. mk1 patrol frame.
> 
> 180lb kitted up, average rider; not very good jumper; drops are fine - ride rooty and rocky trails generally slowly lol and actual mountains.
> 
> In the UK


I was not able to get my pike rct3 to perform anything close to as well as my mezzer by retuning the shim stacks. I think i'd rather keep the mattoc than fuss with a pike.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

POAH said:


> So i'm looking to replace my mattoc (pro2). Mezzer or a pike with smashpot/damper tune. Both at 160 (pike 42 offset v 37 for mattoc. Pike is sitting there in bro in laws house not getting used. Have coil at the rear. mattoc has the new seals already. mk1 patrol frame.
> 
> 180lb kitted up, average rider; not very good jumper; drops are fine - ride rooty and rocky trails generally slowly lol and actual mountains.
> 
> In the UK


Mezzer definitely. If you were a lot lighter I'd say Mattoc as it's less progressive. Pike results will depend entirely on who tuned it and how good they are.


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

POAH said:


> So i'm looking to replace my mattoc (pro2). Mezzer or a pike with smashpot/damper tune. Both at 160 (pike 42 offset v 37 for mattoc. Pike is sitting there in bro in laws house not getting used. Have coil at the rear. mattoc has the new seals already. mk1 patrol frame.
> 
> 180lb kitted up, average rider; not very good jumper; drops are fine - ride rooty and rocky trails generally slowly lol and actual mountains.
> 
> In the UK


I toiled with what to get for my last fork purchase. The Mezzer was high on my list.

While this is not completely pertinent to what you are asking (as you have accessed to a pike to modify), it may help.

It was for a bike with 150mm up front and a burly, durable build for AM riding on very non-buff trails. While the bike is pushed very hard on chunky descents I was looking for a very compliant fork to handle trail chatter on real long rides and to track over slick, uneven terrain. I was willing to give up some "damper support" in trade for a more compliant fork. If I was blasting high speed dh or riding high speed flow trails I might have wanted a more "damped" feeling fork. My riding weight is about 180# also.

After watching this very thread, for some time, very closely, it seemed while the Mezzer could _potentially_ be the best performing fork it had "issues". Finicky set up. QC issues. Possible reduced resale value (compared to Fox and RS).

Ultimately I went with RS and got a Lyric Ultimate with the 2.1 damper. The fork is not perfect, but for my purposes, I'm extremely happy with it. If I wasn't I would and could by whatever fork I wanted to replace it. The fork is extremely forgiving and tracks very well on untamed trails. Relatively easy to set up if you know what you are looking for. Easy to service. Rare QC issues that I've heard of. Durable. Good resale. The fork might be under-damped for high speed, heavier, hard hitters but otherwise its good.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Mezzer definitely. If you were a lot lighter I'd say Mattoc as it's less progressive. Pike results will depend entirely on who tuned it and how good they are.


so you're saying I'm fat then :eekster:


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

POAH said:


> so you're saying I'm fat then :eekster:


You'd be a terrible handicap as a jockey!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> You'd be a terrible handicap as a jockey!


going to cry into my coffee now. Think I'm going to go for the mezzer but not sure when I'll buy it given the current lock down.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

POAH said:


> going to cry into my coffee now. Think I'm going to go for the mezzer but not sure when I'll buy it given the current lock down.


Don't feel bad, you sound similar to me and lighter- "180lb kitted up, average rider; not very good jumper; drops are fine" -and I'm super pleased with my Mezzer, I just wish I could use it right now.


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Anyone have compression damping data from the Mezzer? How does it compare to the mattoc? Just doing some research


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Anyone have compression damping data from the Mezzer? How does it compare to the mattoc? Just doing some research


Yes and quite different.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mezzer 27.5, 180mm, 44mm offset, 8.5" steerer

pinkbike.com/buysell/2751333/


----------



## swamp2 (Dec 25, 2016)

Picked up a new 29er Mez for my new build. I've found a huge amount of friction and noise between the red axle tightening nut and the insert it rides in. Was hoping I wouldn't have to lube it, but finally gave up and did as the noise and torque to loosen kept getting worse. Similar from others? Obviously not a big deal, but suspect with a nice little captive stainless or brass washer lube (and hence a contamination "magnet") wouldn't be required.


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

swamp2 said:


> Picked up a new 29er Mez for my new build. I've found a huge amount of friction and noise between the red axle tightening nut and the insert it rides in. Was hoping I wouldn't have to lube it, but finally gave up and did as the noise and torque to loosen kept getting worse. Similar from others? Obviously not a big deal, but suspect with a nice little captive stainless or brass washer lube (and hence a contamination "magnet") wouldn't be required.


I put some anti-seize compound on the red bolt and then torqued to spec.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Joining the club! Picking up a 29er Mezzer to play with on my Levo SL. Have loved the dual air chamber feel on my Lyrik with a DSD Runt. From my research and reading the thread, seems like picking this up while they are on sale is a no brainer to get what should be even better performance out of the box. It won't be here for a few weeks, but excited to try it out.

Will do a ride report and comparison for those interested between this and my Lyrik w/Runt+HC97 after I have some time on it.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

I wondered is there any specific reason why manitou has not made the oil transfer holes behind the top bushings as found on the new mattoc boost? There are just the holes that lead to the external port found on the updated mezzer lowers.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

jcmonty said:


> Joining the club! Picking up a 29er Mezzer to play with on my Levo SL. Have loved the dual air chamber feel on my Lyrik with a DSD Runt. From my research and reading the thread, seems like picking this up while they are on sale is a no brainer to get what should be even better performance out of the box. It won't be here for a few weeks, but excited to try it out.
> 
> Will do a ride report and comparison for those interested between this and my Lyrik w/Runt+HC97 after I have some time on it.


Very interested.

Have a Lyrik with AWK (the german RUNT) and an MST Tuning cartridge which I unfortunately did not get to run yet as the according bike is not finished.

But still it is always interesting to see a comparison from an of the shelf fork to a custom option. Really love my Mezzer. It really makes fast


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lukam said:


> I wondered is there any specific reason why manitou has not made the oil transfer holes behind the top bushings as found on the new mattoc boost? There are just the holes that lead to the external port found on the updated mezzer lowers.


Yes there is.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Yes there is.


Let me guess, it has something to do with bushing tolerances issues?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ghostbiker said:


> Let me guess, it has something to do with bushing tolerances issues?


I can't comment. But I'm really interested to see how another brand, who has just tried a similar thing, will get on.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Dougal said:


> I can't comment. But I'm really interested to see how another brand, who has just tried a similar thing, will get on.


I´m sure it would be first time "the other brand" released something without proper testing lol. We will see.


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

The external bleed port on the updated Mezzer lowers did catch my eye. I was wondering if this means that we will have an air bleed port option in the future. I do remember Dougal saying, that if you have air buildup in the lowers, then it is time for new fork seals.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

So-- has Manitou worked all the QC issues with the Mezzer? ie proper levels of oil/ grease/ no missing screws / shims etc


-


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

locominute said:


> So-- has Manitou worked all the QC issues with the Mezzer? ie proper levels of oil/ grease/ no missing screws / shims etc
> 
> -


I bought my mezzer the moment they were available on qbp. It's been flawless, and although i mostly dismantled it when it arrived, there was nothing to fault. I bet my experience is typical- like if you're buying a mezzer you want the good ****- you're gonna evaluate a lot more thoroughly than joe derp and his rockshox garbage 2.select+15boostinaire.

That said, checking bath oil and air spring grease is an easy task. The bushing thing is unfortunate, but manitou has stepped up there, so whatever.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

locominute said:


> So-- has Manitou worked all the QC issues with the Mezzer? ie proper levels of oil/ grease/ no missing screws / shims etc
> 
> -


I've got about 8 months on mine now with no issues at all. The only QC issue was the bushings and Manitou fixed that with new lower legs about 3 months back for all owners.

I haven't yet changed mine to the new lowers because mine feel fine (27") and I'll let these take the knocks.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

could anybody post picture of updated lowers?


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Someone posted this:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B-HqgfqnscY/

Seems there are also new decals. There seemed to be almost on all mezzers some wrinkles on the front manitou decal. Now the letters are separate.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Nice, thanks.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

were the bushing/ lowers too loose? tight?-


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

it was too loose.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

I just read the PB review on the Mezzer--

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-manitou-mezzer-pro-fork.html

apparently, they had the same problem. No wonder they were not overly thrilled with the fork.

For the guys who did receive/install the replacement lowers, have you noticed a difference in ride quality?
ride height? ( sag)
need to use different psi ?--higher / lower?


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

I just got my mezzer in the mail (29er). It doesn't seem like I have those ports open - they are capped with no threads. Ordered via Jenson USA - and manu. date was 8/27/19.

Is the update something that I should try to process prior to getting this thing setup, or does the issue only seem to crop up with a small subset of forks?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

put the fork horizontally with crown touching ground, press with your knee on the lowers and vertically push-pull steerer tube. If bushings makes clicking sound and you can see dust wipers moving thats crap. I had two like this and gave up. First one even developed deep scratches on stanchions.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

nikon255 said:


> put the fork horizontally with crown touching ground, press with your knee on the lowers and vertically push-pull steerer tube. If bushings makes clicking sound and you can see dust wipers moving thats crap. I had two like this and gave up. First one even developed deep scratches on stanchions.


Thanks for the tip. FWIW - I emailed Hayes support too just to see what they would say, within about an hour they responded with this:
_
Not all Mezzers were affected by the early run casting issue. Additionally, reworked forks began shipping in January to suppliers waiting in the queue. If your Mezzer box has a green sharpie dot on the white label, you're already good to go. If it does not have a green dot, feel free to ride the fork and see if play develops. Even if play does develop it won't harm the fork within the initial service interval (It would be bad to leave it for, say, a couple years). If your fork does have an issue, you will need to send it in for service. At that time you would need to contact us here, reference that you spoke with me (Zac Smith) and I will find you and get you set up with an RA.

Hope that helps!_

My box did have a "green dot". So, I guess I am covered. I responded asking actually what having that dot entails, but still waiting on that response. Pretty quick support though!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> I just got my mezzer in the mail (29er). It doesn't seem like I have those ports open - they are capped with no threads. Ordered via Jenson USA - and manu. date was 8/27/19.
> 
> Is the update something that I should try to process prior to getting this thing setup, or does the issue only seem to crop up with a small subset of forks?


Are you talking about air-release bosses cast into the lowers?

In that case. Yes they're all cast in but not drilled machined to take anything. Looks like future proofing to me.
Forks with just bath oil don't generate gas pressure in the lower legs. But open bath forks like the 09-19 Dorado did and needed vents (so they got vents).

Boost Mattoc have the same cast bosses but not drilled or machined.

If you have air from the air spring leaking into the lower leg (aka Pike) then you need to fix the air seals.



jcmonty said:


> My box did have a "green dot". So, I guess I am covered. I responded asking actually what having that dot entails, but still waiting on that response. Pretty quick support though!


Green dot means updates have been installed since the parts were manufactured. They used the same green dots on early McLeod shocks that had IFP's updated.


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

I'm looking forward to getting mine here!


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

if anybody is interested -- JensonUSA is having a sales for 800usd on the Mezzer --but they won't be in until 2 weeks. The salesman reassured me that the forks will all have the new castings.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

locominute said:


> if anybody is interested -- JensonUSA is having a sales for 800usd on the Mezzer --but they won't be in until 2 weeks. The salesman reassured me that the forks will all have the new castings.


That's what I did originally, as I had the 160mm backordered. I swapped to the 180mm 44offset because it was in stock, and travel change is relatively easy on these forks.. Seems to be ok per Hayes support and Dougal above, but I don't believe it has the updated castings.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

I have been waiting on warranty lowers since early Feb. Now with the add COVID-19 situation the ETA is looking months away (for Australia at least) which is fine as I still havent ridden the fork since purchasing it 6 months ago. So to all those out there waiting like me we have to patient. 

Hayes replied yesterday with this response:

Hi Jake

We do unfortunately have massive delays on 29er castings. I am currently also communicating this to my customers in Canada who have been waiting a very long time for these. We apologize for the delays. By all means feel free to ride the fork in the meantime. Our testing shows the fork should be fine even though it is annoying to ride. If anything were to happen to the fork as a result we would of course take care of it- the fork should be fine though. I'll be keeping this ticket open until we can resolve your situation.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

wake jake said:


> I have been waiting on warranty lowers since early Feb. Now with the add COVID-19 situation the ETA is looking months away (for Australia at least) which is fine as I still havent ridden the fork since purchasing it 6 months ago. So to all those out there waiting like me we have to patient.
> 
> Hayes replied yesterday with this response:
> 
> ...


Where did you buy it from? Any chance they've been stocked with replacement lowers?

I've got new lowers, but only for the forks I've got in stock.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Where did you buy it from? Any chance they've been stocked with replacement lowers?
> 
> I've got new lowers, but only for the forks I've got in stock.


I purchased them from Wiggle. I will check with them aswell. They seemed to have removed the Mezzer from their store now.


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

I got to ride mine today on the 27.5" setup. Initial impression is awesome. Night and day from the RS lyric. I need some more ride time and ride a couple other places to get it dialed in. I like it better than the Fox 36 Fit4 also. I'm just waiting on the tools to show to drop it to 170mm travel. Bike is a chopper right now @180mm and a tall lower cup, but this might be my enduro race configuration now. Even like it is, it handle really well and corners great, climbing steep stuff it gets super light in the front.

Can't wait for the Mara Pro now....


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Just did a service on my Mezzer and found a few issues.

First I have the same issue as my previous service where there was zero oil in the damper side of the lower leg.

When I removed the damper all the oil poured out so it definitely seems to be getting forced up into the stanchion but doesn't drain back out. My bike had been standing for 2 days since my last ride so the oil would have had plenty of time to drain back out into the lower leg before I serviced it. I know of at least one other member here who had the same problem. Trying to gauge how common this problem is and if this is a design flaw or just a bad batch. Not thrilled with there being virtually no lubrication on the bushes after the oil migrates into the stanchion.

Also my bump stops were ratting around in the lowers again. I guess it time to call Hayes and get the the warranty process started.

Are Hayes requesting that the whole fork is sent back or are they just sending out the new revised lowers?

Do the revised lowers have the updated bushes as well as the bump stop mod? I ask because I think I'm starting to detect a little bushing play. It's very subtle at the moment but I didn't feel it before. I need to do more checks for that.

Also whilst I had the damper out I did a dumb thing. I was holding the bladder in my hand and cycled the damper rod in and out a couple times and a bit of blue oil shot out the top side of the bladder area. Now when I extend the damper rod the bladder collapses slightly. I assume I now need to fill and bleed the bladder? Where is the best place to get the bleed syringes from?

Anyone else having the mounting tabs tearing off on their mudguards? My top tab tore off just weeks after I got my fork so I made a backing plate out of plastic so I could still clamp what was left of the tab with a screw and washer. I've now discovered that the side tabs are starting to tear off too. It seems that when I carry the bike on my bike rack the wind blowing over the mudguard is causing it to flex a lot and cause it to tear at the mounting tabs. It seems a bit of a week design.

Otherwise I'm loving the performance of the fork.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

trail-blazer said:


> ...First I have the same issue as my previous service where there was zero oil in the damper side of the lower leg.
> 
> When I removed the damper all the oil poured out so it definitely seems to be getting forced up into the stanchion but doesn't drain back out. My bike had been standing for 2 days since my last ride so the oil would have had plenty of time to drain back out into the lower leg before I serviced it. I know of at least one other member here who had the same problem. Trying to gauge how common this problem is and if this is a design flaw or just a bad batch. Not thrilled with there being virtually no lubrication on the bushes after the oil migrates into the stanchion.
> 
> Also my bump stops were ratting around in the lowers again...


Based on those previous reports, when I had mine apart to change the travel, before ever riding it, I slightly modified the plastic cap at the bottom of the damper side stanchion. It is super easy to make a few of the cassette tool slots deeper so the stanchion would not be able to hold any oil. My theory was that the o-ring around the damper body that loosely seats in the cap is acting like a check valve in some cases. Does that seem to make sense from what you can see on your fork?

As to those bump stops, one of mine was loose too when I looked down the lowers. But when the fork is assembled, they can't really go anywhere with the shafts through them. I'm not sure what the concern is with these, it seemed like maybe it got dislodged in taking the fork apart, but it fit back in place easily enough.

But yeah, that sucks if you are getting loose bushings, get on the warranty track. It seems like I have heard both sides of that one, some people had to send the fork back but there were others that got lowers shipped to them. I would raise a big stink if I had to send the whole fork back, so far mine feels nice and just right but I will definitely be keeping an eye on it.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Velodonata said:


> Based on those previous reports, when I had mine apart to change the travel, before ever riding it, I slightly modified the plastic cap at the bottom of the damper side stanchion. It is super easy to make a few of the cassette tool slots deeper so the stanchion would not be able to hold any oil. My theory was that the o-ring around the damper body that loosely seats in the cap is acting like a check valve in some cases. Does that seem to make sense from what you can see on your fork?
> 
> As to those bump stops, one of mine was loose too when I looked down the lowers. But when the fork is assembled, they can't really go anywhere with the shafts through them. I'm not sure what the concern is with these, it seemed like maybe it got dislodged in taking the fork apart, but it fit back in place easily enough.
> 
> But yeah, that sucks if you are getting loose bushings, get on the warranty track. It seems like I have heard both sides of that one, some people had to send the fork back but there were others that got lowers shipped to them. I would raise a big stink if I had to send the whole fork back, so far mine feels nice and just right but I will definitely be keeping an eye on it.


I read about you cutting grooves to allow the oil back out. I considered doing that but because I may potentially have to send the fork in for warranty I held off. I'm going to call and speak to Hayes about it and see what their thoughts are, assuming they're answering calls.

My bump stops were loose from out of the box when I changed the travel and didn't think anything of it then and just reseated them but then read on here how Hayes is saying that the forks needs to be sent in to warranty that issue. The second time I opened the fork the bump stops remained seated and this time they were loose again. I assume Hayes consider it enough risk to cause some damage if the fork bottoms out hard and want to rectify the issue.

I'm going to need to do some more checking about the bushes. I'm feeling a very subtle knock on some rough rooty track that I hadn't noticed before but I need to eliminate other possibilities first.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

Velodonata said:


> As to those bump stops, one of mine was loose too when I looked down the lowers. But when the fork is assembled, they can't really go anywhere with the shafts through them. I'm not sure what the concern is with these, it seemed like maybe it got dislodged in taking the fork apart, but it fit back in place easily enough.


One of my bumpers was in upside down and it was getting out of place on the shaft and then getting crushed sideways by the end of the stanchion near end of travel. It caused the metal part in the bumper to start making gouges in the damper shaft and the bumper was banana shaped. I've sent my fork to Zac from manitou a couple months ago although I don't know if the parts have made it to Canada yet.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> I just got my mezzer in the mail (29er). It doesn't seem like I have those ports open - they are capped with no threads. Ordered via Jenson USA - and manu. date was 8/27/19.
> 
> Is the update something that I should try to process prior to getting this thing setup, or does the issue only seem to crop up with a small subset of forks?





jcmonty said:


> Thanks for the tip. FWIW - I emailed Hayes support too just to see what they would say, within about an hour they responded with this:
> _
> Not all Mezzers were affected by the early run casting issue. Additionally, reworked forks began shipping in January to suppliers waiting in the queue. If your Mezzer box has a green sharpie dot on the white label, you're already good to go. If it does not have a green dot, feel free to ride the fork and see if play develops. Even if play does develop it won't harm the fork within the initial service interval (It would be bad to leave it for, say, a couple years). If your fork does have an issue, you will need to send it in for service. At that time you would need to contact us here, reference that you spoke with me (Zac Smith) and I will find you and get you set up with an RA.
> 
> ...





trail-blazer said:


> Just did a service on my Mezzer and found a few issues.
> 
> First I have the same issue as my previous service where there was zero oil in the damper side of the lower leg.
> 
> ...


Yes the new lowers have a different bumper arrangement. They are split and tensioned against the sides.

Your damper either has a bad seal letting oil in or the relief valve is set too loose and is squirting out oil before it should. I would send it in for damper and lowers warranty.

I haven't broken any of my mudguards. But my kids managed to break one of theirs.


----------



## digev (Mar 7, 2019)

https://nsmb.com/articles/riding-tall-manitou-mezzer-pro-irt-fork/


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Yes the new lowers have a different bumper arrangement. They are split and tensioned against the sides.
> 
> Your damper either has a bad seal letting oil in or the relief valve is set too loose and is squirting out oil before it should. I would send it in for damper and lowers warranty.
> 
> I haven't broken any of my mudguards. But my kids managed to break one of theirs.


Thanks Dougal. Interesting about the relief valve. I'm not sure it is set wrong as I may have squeezed against the pressure of the bladder when I cycled the damper rod which could have spiked the pressure and caused the valve to open. I didn't really squeeze hard more just enough to resist the expansion of the bladder - feel real dumb for doing that now - lesson learned lol.

I'll see what Haynes say regarding warranty times. If things are stalled due to the virus issues which I suspect they will be, then I may just refill the damper for now and send the fork in when things get back to normal. At least that way I can still ride the fork.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

naturaltalent said:


> One of my bumpers was in upside down and it was getting out of place on the shaft and then getting crushed sideways by the end of the stanchion near end of travel. It caused the metal part in the bumper to start making gouges in the damper shaft and the bumper was banana shaped. I've sent my fork to Zac from manitou a couple months ago although I don't know if the parts have made it to Canada yet.


 I didn't realize there was a metal ring inside them. Makes sense now why they are wanting the lowers warrantied.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Does any know if a Mudhugger mud guard fits the Mezzer? With my mudguard's tabs almost all torn off, I'm thinking of trying a Mudhugger but not sure if they will work with the reversed arch.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Does any know if a Mudhugger mud guard fits the Mezzer? With my mudguard's tabs almost all torn off, I'm thinking of trying a Mudhugger but not sure if they will work with the reversed arch.


The reverse arch won't stop you. You might have to drill some extra zip-tie holes in the mud-guard.
There are plenty of Mattoc riders with zip-tied on mud-guards.

BTW the MY2019 mattoc boost mudguard is the same as the Mezzer but more rigid plastic. The 2020 is more like rubber.
For me the 2020 works better as it gets munched in the chairlift racking system that a local mountain has. The 2020 returns to shape faster.

BTW the relief valve normally won't vent with a bladder squeeze. Mine doesn't. But if You've got full stroke still then you won't have to add oil.
The ball, spring and screw that sets the relief pressure is down beside the adjuster knob rod in the top-cap.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Setup question:

Has anyone intentionally run more travel (ala: 170mm instead 160mm) with lower main chamber pressure to achieve roughly the same dynamic ride height they would have with the less travel and higher main chamber pressure?

I am just beginning my tuning quest on this fork, and only have tested it in my backyard. I am ~ 178-180lb kitted on a 40lb bike (Levo SL), riding the fork at 160mm. Currently, I have main chamber ~ 55psi and IRT at 95psi with HSC at 1 click, LSC at 4. I am sensitive to ride height on this bike, but given that we can play with travel options, I was wondering if anyone has taken the route above? Or is it best to pick the "ideal" travel and tune for that?

I live in Southern California which is a lot of dry, rocky, loose, steep terrain intermixed with built up flow. My thought with the 170mm-instead of 160mm would be to gain suppleness over small bumps, chatter, debris, etc while still maintaining a not-too choppered ride height. The IRT allows for mid-stroke tuning, so I am not concerned about that. I would think running a 25% on the 170mm sag vs. 20% on the 160mm would give essentially the same "static" sag/ride height, but given the airspring dynamics , not sure if the ride quality would be the same.

I guess I can always just try it  , but curious of the experts' thoughts given some of the trend to run lower main chamber pressure.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> I just got my mezzer in the mail (29er). It doesn't seem like I have those ports open - they are capped with no threads. Ordered via Jenson USA - and manu. date was 8/27/19.
> 
> Is the update something that I should try to process prior to getting this thing setup, or does the issue only seem to crop up with a small subset of forks?





jcmonty said:


> Setup question:
> 
> Has anyone intentionally run more travel (ala: 170mm instead 160mm) with lower main chamber pressure to achieve roughly the same dynamic ride height they would with the less travel and higher main chamber pressure but will more off the top suppleness?
> 
> ...


Go ahead. The only downside to that sort of setup is steep technical climbing where the fork reaches full extension and makes your climbing geometry worse. But with an E-bike it's not as big a deal.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

mullen119 said:


> There was supposed to be a release from Manitou about the issue, and they even had said statement floating around in emails. No idea why they decided to not release it publicly.
> 
> Its the best fork I have personally spent time on. The combination of quality damper, stiff and light weight chassis, and ability to match spring characteristics to any preference makes it quite the value. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try a lyrik with a push hc97 damper and coil conversation though. The cost is to high for me to justify though when a stock Mezzer checks all the boxes


Currently have a Lyrik Ultimate that I've HC97 and Smashpot converted. While it's great, it's heavy as a boat anchor (which I really don't care all that much about)...but it's very smooth. However, I now am considering going with either the Mezzer or the Onyx SC. 
I've been leaning DVO as I've always had great luck with their products and run a Jade coil on the back of my Evolink 158...but I'll admit the Mezzer is a strong contender with the dual pos chamber. I have experience with this from putting a DSD Runt in the Lyrik before I got the Smashpot...so I actually could have bought a brand new fork for what I've "fixed" my now very heavy Lyrik with ($700+) 
Anyone have any experience on both Onyx SC and Mezzer? Very interested in any sort of real life comparison


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Th3Bill said:


> Currently have a Lyrik Ultimate that I've HC97 and Smashpot converted. While it's great, it's heavy as a boat anchor (which I really don't care all that much about)...but it's very smooth. However, I now am considering going with either the Mezzer or the Onyx SC.
> I've been leaning DVO as I've always had great luck with their products and run a Jade coil on the back of my Evolink 158...but I'll admit the Mezzer is a strong contender with the dual pos chamber. I have experience with this from putting a DSD Runt in the Lyrik before I got the Smashpot...so I actually could have bought a brand new fork for what I've "fixed" my now very heavy Lyrik with ($700+) ?*♂
> Anyone have any experience on both Onyx SC and Mezzer? Very interested in any sort of real life comparison


btw How do you like your current Lyrik setup vs previous with the runt?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

locominute said:


> btw How do you like your current Lyrik setup vs previous with the runt?


I'll be honest that the Lyrik was a bit of a mess for me at the beginning...somehow actually ended up being a $950 fork that managed to be stiff off the top, blow through all the mid support with any braking, and bottom out harsh no matter what I did. Add tokens, remove tokens, air pressure, rebound and damper adjustments...seemed like I either had something equivalent to an extra soft pillow through entire stroke until a harsh end, or hardly used any travel. This after having a virtually set and forget DVO Diamond....which unfortunately was 150mm and wasn't enough fork for my Evolink158...

The Runt was pretty cool. It had great mid-stroke performance. Brake dive was absolutely GONE. Bottom out was very good. Had difficulty dialing in the small bump sensitivity while maintaining the mid stroke

Smashpot is very good. Much better initial stroke suppleness. but I've seen 2 things that bug me. 
1) It's not as supportive mid-stroke as the runt, which I kind of expected given the spring nature, but it's not sloppy and doesn't bottom out harshly. Pedaling a little less efficient, but not to any level you notice other than when pedaling slowly on pavement tbh. Surprisingly, I actually find it easier to launch the bike off trail features than with the air spring....despite most reviews indicating the opposite.
2) it seems to sag 5mm or so under just the bikes weight. I'm assuming this is probably normal, but I've never seen this on an air fork.

In the end, the Smashpot has made a very good improvement but for some reason I just feel annoyed at the sheer expense invested into the fork and want to sell it. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Th3Bill said:


> 2) it seems to sag 5mm or so under just the bikes weight. I'm assuming this is probably normal, but I've never seen this on an air fork.
> 
> .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lyrik before the latest Rockshox Debonair update had that tendency.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Dougal said:


> BTW the relief valve normally won't vent with a bladder squeeze. Mine doesn't. But if You've got full stroke still then you won't have to add oil.
> The ball, spring and screw that sets the relief pressure is down beside the adjuster knob rod in the top-cap.


Is there any way to know how to set the pressure relief valve pop off? The service manual only covers the filling of the damper.

I spoke to Hayes yesterday and they want the fork back for the bump stops and the issue of the bath oil not draining back out of the damper leg.

They won't have the new lower casings back in stock until mid May though so I'm going to hold off send it back until nearer the time.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

jcmonty said:


> Lyrik before the latest Rockshox Debonair update had that tendency.


He's talking about with the coil fitted


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Yes the new lowers have a different bumper arrangement. They are split and tensioned against the sides.


when did the new lowers start coming out?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

trail-blazer said:


> Is there any way to know how to set the pressure relief valve pop off? The service manual only covers the filling of the damper.
> 
> I spoke to Hayes yesterday and they want the fork back for the bump stops and the issue of the bath oil not draining back out of the damper leg.
> 
> They won't have the new lower casings back in stock until mid May though so I'm going to hold off send it back until nearer the time.


I don't have a good way for you to set the relief valve. But check the screw I mentioned above isn't backed out.

Sending it in for warranty is the best way.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Th3Bill said:


> I'll be honest that the Lyrik was a bit of a mess for me at the beginning...somehow actually ended up being a $950 fork that managed to be stiff off the top, blow through all the mid support with any braking, and bottom out harsh no matter what I did. Add tokens, remove tokens, air pressure, rebound and damper adjustments...seemed like I either had something equivalent to an extra soft pillow through entire stroke until a harsh end, or hardly used any travel. This after having a virtually set and forget DVO Diamond....which unfortunately was 150mm and wasn't enough fork for my Evolink158...
> 
> The Runt was pretty cool. It had great mid-stroke performance. Brake dive was absolutely GONE. Bottom out was very good. Had difficulty dialing in the small bump sensitivity while maintaining the mid stroke
> 
> ...


I have a 2020 Lyrik with Avy damper and Smashpot. It's good and if I had never ridden much else I would be relatively happy apart from the weight and the noise it occasionally makes (rattles at trail speeds...I'm super sensitive to noise when not charging..quiet hubs...no cables...any noise is apparent immediately...anyway).

Mezzer is great once you find a set up and get a grasp of how the air system works/rides. Chassis is noticeably stiffer than the Lyrik imo and this is one of the main benefits. Damper actually works too.

DVO Onyx SC is also great. I think it's stiffer than the Lyrik but not quite up to Mezzer staunchness. OTT works really well and small bump compliance is more consistent than the Mezzer. I say that because I find from one day to the next the Mezzer can feel different...not bad but different each day. I've ended up flipping the bike with the Mezzer almost after every ride and leaving that way until it's ready to ride and this helps otherwise I find it gets sticky on initial movement.

The DVO is set and forget. Great fork and I like it alot. Mid and end stroke support dealt with well with air pressure with help from the damper, OTT controls the small bump to your liking. Mezzer is at the top of the air fork game. If they could sort out their production issues and revisit their response times to their customers contacting them it would go a long way. Some people have been waiting since November for new lowers FFS...that is just wrong.

Right now I would say buy the DVO Onyx. If Manitou can sort their **** out that opens up another option for you.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

springs said:


> I I've ended up flipping the bike with the Mezzer almost after every ride and leaving that way until it's ready to ride and this helps otherwise I find it gets sticky on initial movement.


I haven't noticed that. I checked oil levels when i got the fork, and one of the baths was ~empty. Your description fits that scenario. Maybe topping up your bath oil will solve this issue.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> I have a 2020 Lyrik with Avy damper and Smashpot. It's good and if I had never ridden much else I would be relatively happy apart from the weight and the noise it occasionally makes (rattles at trail speeds...I'm super sensitive to noise when not charging..quiet hubs...no cables...any noise is apparent immediately...anyway).
> 
> Mezzer is great once you find a set up and get a grasp of how the air system works/rides. Chassis is noticeably stiffer than the Lyrik imo and this is one of the main benefits. Damper actually works too.
> 
> ...


The stick when the fork has been sitting is a quad-ring thing. Quad-rings squish flat and sort of suction cup onto the inside of the stanchions when they've been sitting. Bath oil and flipping the fork won't change that.

IMO anyone with a fork (or any other component) issue needs to go back to the retailer first. In Trail-Blazers situatoin the retailer is also the UK distributor. They have no excuses for not sorting this out with their customers.


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

springs said:


> Some people have been waiting since November for new lowers FFS...that is just wrong.
> 
> Right now I would say buy the DVO Onyx. If Manitou can sort their **** out that opens up another option for you.


My Mezzer 29er 44mm offset (running 170mm) started with the bushing knock on the downs and ups after 30hrs. Manitou had it end of February and I got it back end of March. Manitou/Hayes were awesome to deal with. I'm sure it would have been faster if not for the Corona Virus causing havok with supply chains in that part of the world. Given my experience, I'm not sure where folks are talking November wait time.

Mezzer was well worth the wait. I prefer the Mezzer over the 36 or Ohlins rxf 36 m.2. Holds a line better than the Ohlins and much better mid stroke support and feel than the 36.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> The stick when the fork has been sitting is a quad-ring thing. Quad-rings squish flat and sort of suction cup onto the inside of the stanchions when they've been sitting. Bath oil and flipping the fork won't change that.
> 
> IMO anyone with a fork (or any other component) issue needs to go back to the retailer first. In Trail-Blazers situatoin the retailer is also the UK distributor. They have no excuses for not sorting this out with their customers.


Bike was ridden every day and it did the same stick each day so it's not like it's sitting around....or do I just need to ride it more lol


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Bike was ridden every day and it did the same stick each day so it's not like it's sitting around....or do I just need to ride it more lol


Yeah they stick after a few hours sitting. It's a side effect of having a quad-ring seal with more seal squish which gives a more reliable seal and longer life. While sitting the two grooves suction to the stanchion internal wall and need popped free. I've been meaning to look at ways to stop it but haven't got there yet.

Swapping to an o-ring is one option but sometimes o-rings can roll in the groove and destroy themselves. So bear that in mind while testing.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

TH3Bill---
Really appreciate the feedback-!

Sounds like the Runt and IRT both take some time to dial in since they are both the same basic design.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

locominute said:


> TH3Bill---
> Really appreciate the feedback-!
> 
> Sounds like the Runt and IRT both take some time to dial in since they are both the same basic design.


Well, looks like I'm gonna get a chance to play with the IRT. Just got an insane deal on the Mezzer and couldn't resist pulling the trigger. Should have it in my possession sometime early next week.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Hi mate, where did you get the deal from? I'm looking at getting a set of mezzers. Also can anybody help set me straight on which offset would be more suited for me on my 2019 rocky mountain slayer, the 37mm or 44mm? Going down is more important than climbing for me!


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

bloodbox said:


> Hi mate, where did you get the deal from? I'm looking at getting a set of mezzers. Also can anybody help set me straight on which offset would be more suited for me on my 2019 rocky mountain slayer, the 37mm or 44mm? Going down is more important than climbing for me!


Had a bunch of gift cards from reviews on Worldwide cyclery. Managed to get the mezzer with them for 650 
As far as offset, I would think 37 would provide more stability. But I could be wrong, as the offset numbers always give me a headache lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> Had a bunch of gift cards from reviews on Worldwide cyclery. Managed to get the mezzer with them for 650
> As far as offset, I would think 37 would provide more stability. But I could be wrong, as the offset numbers always give me a headache lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks mate!


----------



## ChocolateThunder (Jul 23, 2006)

Anyone else running this in 140 mm mode?
I have 60 PSI in the main chamber, 107 in the IRT chamber. It feels OK (certainly no stiction), not so sure about plush... but I only have a 170mm 36 with a custom damper for comparison, so the Mezzer feels stiffer, as it probably should with less travel. Sag is just barely over 20% when in a riding position. Not using full travel, but also no chance yet to actually get after it.
Anyone else have input on settings in 140 mm travel mode?

FWIW, I bought mine from JensonUSA on 4/3/20, and I DID (_edited 5/4/20 based on new info_) get the updated lowers (I definitely have no port with a screw in the crown), did not check for a green dot (_yes, I have a green dot_). No play noted, but fork has only one ride.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ChocolateThunder said:


> Anyone else running this in 140 mm mode?
> I have 60 PSI in the main chamber, 107 in the IRT chamber. It feels OK (certainly no stiction), not so sure about plush... but I only have a 170mm 36 with a custom damper for comparison, so the Mezzer feels stiffer, as it probably should with less travel. Sag is just barely over 20% when in a riding position. Not using full travel, but also no chance yet to actually get after it.
> Anyone else have input on settings in 140 mm travel mode?
> 
> FWIW, I bought mine from JensonUSA on 4/3/20, and I did not get the updated lowers (I definitely have no port with a screw in the crown), did not check for a green dot. No play noted, but fork has only one ride.


You didn't mention your weight.

60/107psi would be a good starting point for a 100kg rider.

Regarding the lowers. Why do you think yours haven't been updated? What visual difference are you looking for? There is no port with a screw in the crown.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Regarding the lowers. Why do you think yours haven't been updated? What visual difference are you looking for? There is no port with a screw in the crown.


It's the only place I've seen it, but this link was posted here a couple weeks back:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B-HqgfqnscY/


----------



## ChocolateThunder (Jul 23, 2006)

Dougal said:


> You didn't mention your weight.
> 
> 60/107psi would be a good starting point for a 100kg rider.
> 
> Regarding the lowers. Why do you think yours haven't been updated? What visual difference are you looking for? There is no port with a screw in the crown.


I weigh 200 lbs.

I got the pressure guidance from the document Manitou put out. Part of it is attached to my post. I backed off main pressure after realizing that 75 PSI was too much.

Maybe I need to take some pressure out of IRT next...

As for the idea that my lowers aren't updated, I saw the IG post to which Velodonata referred.


----------



## komondor (Aug 5, 2008)

has anyone ridden the mezzer vs the lyrik ultimate?
Currently riding the lyrik ultimate but now new a 29er.

So I am between this 2 forks.

Any help would be very appreciated.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

ChocolateThunder said:


> I weigh 200 lbs.
> 
> I got the pressure guidance from the document Manitou put out. Part of it is attached to my post. I backed off main pressure after realizing that 75 PSI was too much.
> 
> Maybe I need to take some pressure out of IRT next...


I wanted to check my log book before I replied to this, but I'm a little heavier than you, running my Mezzer at 140mm on an Ibis Ripley v4, currently at 65/90. Previous to that 65/100. Started at 75/100. Very little time on it after the last change, with the trails being most all shut down near me. It's felt better each time, but again not enough time to be sold yet on the latest at 90/65. And it's been an improvement over my previous Fox 34 on this bike at every stage. I was only just getting into playing more with settings recently, and my big trip to really give it a working over got cancelled.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

komondor said:


> has anyone ridden the mezzer vs the lyrik ultimate?
> Currently riding the lyrik ultimate but now new a 29er.
> 
> So I am between this 2 forks.
> ...


Currently have a Lyrik Ultimate. Just not able to get it dialed in the way I want. Have Push HC97 in damper but still can't seem to get the dampening how I want it. Decided to go with Mezzer. 
I'll be able to give you some decent feedback with it soon. Trails open up tomorrow near me after a month **** down. I should have the Mezzer by Friday. Gonna try to get out for a test run Saturday or Sunday

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

komondor said:


> has anyone ridden the mezzer vs the lyrik ultimate?
> Currently riding the lyrik ultimate but now new a 29er.
> 
> So I am between this 2 forks.
> ...


I had a Lyrik select, and hated it compared to the Mezzer. For one the Mezzer is much stiffer, the Lyrik would dive real bad under breaking or nothing. If I found a happy place to deal with all the little chunk it would dive real bad and be not nice on the big hits. It was just one extreme or the other.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

I've ridden the lyrik ultimate, but on a friend's FS bike while my mezzer is on a hardtail and i've spent a bunch of time getting it perfect. So i have an opinion, but it's an apples and road apples comparison and i'll keep it to myself.



TXrocks said:


> I had a Lyrik select, and hated it compared to the Mezzer. For one the Mezzer is much stiffer, the Lyrik would dive real bad under breaking or nothing. If I found a happy place to deal with all the little chunk it would dive real bad and be not nice on the big hits. It was just one extreme or the other.


In my experience the RC/select damper tunes are pretty horrible compared to the rct/ultimate. If the lyrik select was comparable to the mezzer that'd be a big ding against the mezzer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> It's the only place I've seen it, but this link was posted here a couple weeks back:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B-HqgfqnscY/





ChocolateThunder said:


> I weigh 200 lbs.
> 
> I got the pressure guidance from the document Manitou put out. Part of it is attached to my post. I backed off main pressure after realizing that 75 PSI was too much.
> 
> ...


That's a new thing that's not related to the bushing fix.

At 200lb (90kg) I'd start you at 90/55psi.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Dougal said:


> That's a new thing that's not related to the bushing fix.
> 
> At 200lb (90kg) I'd start you at 90/55psi.


Dougal - what would you recommend to try for my situation:

160mm, 29r - 180 lbs riding weight on a 41 lb bike.

Current setup: ~ 55psi main, 95psi IRT, HSC fully open, LSC 4 clicks from open, Rebound 5 clicks from open. Feels pretty good overall. High-speed chunk is smooth, bottom out is smooth and where I would expect it, static sag (subjective - I know) is ~ 27-28%, but could be a bit less firm over chatter and small bump.'

Edit: I should add that I primarily ride steep-ish, rocky, loose trails (60%), 20% flow (drops, jumps, berms, etc) 20% "XC".

Appreciate any suggestions! I was going to try less main chamber, but concerned about dropping ride height too much (hated that on my Lyrik).


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> That's a new thing that's not related to the bushing fix.


Popped up again, they should update the service manual then? This would seem to go more with what you originally posted, which was different than the published service manual.


__
http://instagr.am/p/B_lYrWMnU0S/


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

Hi all,

I took the plunge and bought a mezzer.


It arrived today. i have plotted and schemed to get it into the house without the wife noticing....i.e i timed its arrival on the yodel app with me returning home from tescos with the click and collect! 

Anyway, i ordered 27.5..it says 27.5 on the box along side a serial number,...but inside was a 29er fork dorado sticker on the lowers and 595mm axle to crown. It looks like it was manitous fault and not CRC due to the box.

My question....to avoid all the hassel of returning...would riding i ton my 27.5 with 27.5 wheel be ok? i could upgrade my frame to a 29er in the future and also try a mullet setup?

WHat do you guys think? 

ive emailed CRC and hayes. Wanted to ride tomorrow so bad but have held off cutting the steerer tube.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Popped up again, they should update the service manual then? This would seem to go more with what you originally posted, which was different than the published service manual.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B_lYrWMnU0S/


You think we should tell the engineers to calm down and let the tech writers catch up?



adamxrt said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I took the plunge and bought a mezzer.
> 
> ...


Post a pic. What travel were you looking for and what P/N is on the end of the box?


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

[SUB] [/SUB]Does anybody know about the green sharpie dot? Should it be on the box of all of the forks or is it only forks manufactured before a certain date?

I'm looking to buy a set but I'm not sure what to look out for, I can't find any for sale in the UK so I'd be looking to import from Germany and if i have any issues it might be a pain returning them or getting them sorted.


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

Dougal said:


> You think we should tell the engineers to calm down and let the tech writers catch up?
> 
> Post a pic. What travel were you looking for and what P/N is on the end of the box?


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fgjT7yMT_VshCuRBXs9QZbo_81qSRLya

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fS5FcZD2y8WwJ_J1saxW5GsIYPMS6V81

P/N is on the box pic.

Well i was going to try it at 180mm on my vitus sommet initially then drop it if needs be. I like lots of travel. steep trails in the mourne mountains, and lack of skill=need all the travel i can get!


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

bloodbox said:


> [SUB] [/SUB]Does anybody know about the green sharpie dot? Should it be on the box of all of the forks or is it only forks manufactured before a certain date?
> 
> I'm looking to buy a set but I'm not sure what to look out for, I can't find any for sale in the UK so I'd be looking to import from Germany and if i have any issues it might be a pain returning them or getting them sorted.


I ordered from CRC last week to Northern Ireland. i think it came from a wiggle storehouse tho... took 5 days.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

I've had a look at both mate, they only have 29's available but it's the 27.5 i'm after. Thanks anyway though!


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

So, finally got this beast in my hands...and all I can say is how impressed I am at the construction and quality of this fork. What a beastly built thing it is.
Can’t wait to get out onto the trails this weekend and get some time on it. 

Considering a change in shock as well, so looking for everyone’s input. I’m currently riding a coil shock (DVO Jade) on my Pole Evolink 158. Love how it rides, but am interested in an air shock. While I love the insane amount of tuneability of the Mara, I’m also intrigued by the McLeod, as I primarily ride mixed terrain singletrack with an occasional trip to a downhill park a couple times a year. 

Any feedback on anyone riding either of those shocks? Would love to see any sort of comparison by someone who has had both...as the McLeod with the king can is still half the price of the Mara...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

adamxrt said:


> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fgjT7yMT_VshCuRBXs9QZbo_81qSRLya
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fS5FcZD2y8WwJ_J1saxW5GsIYPMS6V81
> 
> ...


Weird. Post a photo of the dropouts and they'll show whether it's a 27" fork with the wrong stickers or a 29" fork in the wrong box.

Does the serial number on the box match the serial number on the crown?


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

Can a mezzer take a diy coil upgrade? Thinking there won't be a kit.


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Weird. Post a photo of the dropouts and they'll show whether it's a 27" fork with the wrong stickers or a 29" fork in the wrong box.
> 
> Does the serial number on the box match the serial number on the crown?


i did measure the axle to crown it was like 590ish.
Wheres the serial number?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

adamxrt said:


> i did measure the axle to crown it was like 590ish.
> Wheres the serial number?


On the back of the CSU


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

edge540T said:


> Can a mezzer take a diy coil upgrade? Thinking there won't be a kit.


I have a random coil spring that'll fit mine at 180mm. I just haven't had the time to install and test it.

There are no off-the-shelf kits at this point in time.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

edge540T said:


> Can a mezzer take a diy coil downgrade? Thinking there won't be a kit.


FTFY. Dorado air spring is amazing.


----------



## boattrailermonkey (May 2, 2020)

Hi All,
I saw someone already asked but didn't receive a reply. What bleed kits are people using for the damper?


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

scottzg said:


> FTFY. Dorado air spring is amazing.


When your weight is not on pressure range because table ends >100kg means you are not near of the sweet spot at all.
But mainly every air spring on the market along the years want to be similar as spring coil, even when your are in the sweet spot of the engineers air spring tables.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Looking for a new 170mm fork and got a recommendation to check out the Mezzer and after reading the specs and this thread I am interested. 

I see some wide ranges of pricing, from the USD 999 MSRP to down to about $799 at Jenson. Anyone scored better than $799? Outside the US the sites seem to have wacky pricing due to currency FX I suspect.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

backinmysaddle said:


> Looking for a new 170mm fork and got a recommendation to check out the Mezzer and after reading the specs and this thread I am interested.
> 
> I see some wide ranges of pricing, from the USD 999 MSRP to down to about $799 at Jenson. Anyone scored better than $799? Outside the US the sites seem to have wacky pricing due to currency FX I suspect.


That's a good price, I got a great deal buying from a German site (Bike-Discount.de) back in late December but their prices have since gone up closer to the Jenson deal and it took a full month to arrive, I would rather deal with Jenson for what is still a nice deal on a great fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boattrailermonkey said:


> Hi All,
> I saw someone already asked but didn't receive a reply. What bleed kits are people using for the damper?


It's the same M5 bleed ports as RS Reverb, Shimano brakes and Hayes Radar.

It's also the same as many DOT fluid brakes. But you do not want to mix up your DOT fluid brake bleeding tools and your suspension bleeding tools.


----------



## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

I've been looking around and I can't find a Mezzer 29er with 44 offset. Damn.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Christopher Robin said:


> I've been looking around and I can't find a Mezzer 29er with 44 offset. Damn.


Shipment of the new updated/improved/fixed lowers is due next week so the availability of forks should be much better soon.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

springs said:


> Shipment of the new updated/improved/fixed lowers is due next week so the availability of forks should be much better soon.


Amazing news thanks!


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

I ordered mezzer 29 44mm offset from Jenson USA middle of April.
Initially, fork was to have been sent last week, but I have been told that new delivery date will be May 20th


----------



## ChocolateThunder (Jul 23, 2006)

bloodbox said:


> [SUB] [/SUB]Does anybody know about the green sharpie dot? Should it be on the box of all of the forks or is it only forks manufactured before a certain date?
> 
> I'm looking to buy a set but I'm not sure what to look out for, I can't find any for sale in the UK so I'd be looking to import from Germany and if i have any issues it might be a pain returning them or getting them sorted.


My Mezzer (29" 44mm) which came from Jenson (ordered early April) has a green dot, mfg date Aug 2019. I do not have the fancy ports on the lowers (in the crown latticework) as featured on the IG post.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Thanks for that, i think i'll wait a month or so until the shops are stocked up with the new release of forks though.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah, my order for a 44mm 180 Mezzer doesnt appear to be processing from Jenson. They have the 51mm in stock but the GG Gnarvana is spec'd for 44mm so I ordered that. Frame is 3-4 weeks out so as long as this ships in the end of May I will be fine. I may call Jensen to ask if they have firm truth on the availability date. Would be good if there is a new release, worth waiting for that.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

ChocolateThunder said:


> My Mezzer (29" 44mm) which came from Jenson (ordered early April) has a green dot, mfg date Aug 2019. I do not have the fancy ports on the lowers (in the crown latticework) as featured on the IG post.


Same here - Jenson, August 2019, green dot. No issues with bushings, etc on mine after ~ 100 miles or so.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Just got a response from my specific inquiry to Jenson, they are saying it will be in stock and will ship mid-June. I wont get my frame until early June and am also on hold with the new DHx2 with chrome shaft so I guess this is going to be a summer solstice build by the time everything arrives.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Got my fork from Worldwide Cyclery. Has spots on the casting for where the ports look like they are in the new casting pictures...but alas no ports. 
Only 2 rides in, so no info on any play yet...it’s rock solid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Christopher Robin said:


> I've been looking around and I can't find a Mezzer 29er with 44 offset. Damn.


We've got some: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-mezzer-pro-29-44-mm-offset-matte-black.html


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Had a look at my Mezzer last night and when I removed the lowers pretty much all of the lower leg bath oil was trapped above the oring on the damper side. Using Supergliss 100k as bath oil...maybe it needs something with less viscosity to get back down thru the holes in the white plastic ring? I'll either drill some holes in the ring or extend the slots to help with drainage.

Adodera, do you still have this issue and what bath oil are you using?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Had a look at my Mezzer last night and when I removed the lowers pretty much all of the lower leg bath oil was trapped above the oring on the damper side. Using Supergliss 100k as bath oil...maybe it needs something with less viscosity to get back down thru the holes in the white plastic ring? I'll either drill some holes in the ring or extend the slots to help with drainage.
> 
> Adodera, do you still have this issue and what bath oil are you using?


What colour was the trapped oil? Still golden supergliss or tinged blue?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> What colour was the trapped oil? Still golden supergliss or tinged blue?


Golden supergliss colour


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Last time it was the blue


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Golden supergliss colour


Well that confirms it hasn't been vented through the damper.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

That's the mezzer ordered. 27.5 37mm offset


----------



## Fleijah (Jun 18, 2019)

Really interested in trying out a manitou (mattoc or mezzer) fork because of their IRT spring. Currently riding a 160mm pike RC (2018 charger 2, 2019 debonair spring) on my canyon spectral 160/150 (DVO topaz out back which I do love for its bladder driven sensitivity and neg/pos air chamber tunability). I feel the pike lacks support but is overdamped in the high speed department. Closing LSC helps the support but makes it even firmer in rougher chatter. Also the damper limits its small bump sensitivity.
So I'm now looking for better tunability (which I can perform as an end user without engineering skills) and hopefully better small-bump sensitivity and high speed impact compliance with a better mid-stroke 'platform'. I'm about 88kg geared up, 1,88m if that matters. I ride trail, borderline XC mostly (all my surroundings have to offer unfortunately) but live for the 6x yearly enduro and bikepark trips I make. Is a mattoc or mezzer a sensible switch to fit what I'm looking for? Not afraid to spend plenty of time experimenting with fork set-ups. In fact, I love to.
Would a mattoc or mezzer work best for me?


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

springs said:


> Adodera, do you still have this issue and what bath oil are you using?


I've been running an RXF36 M.2 for the last few months. By that, I mean I rode it for a month, haven't run it since due to COVID, and gained 4 lbs. Still lower than when I joined this thread, though...

A friend has been running the fork while he waits on his to show up. I haven't had a chance to drop the lowers again to see if the oil is still trapped, although I did cut some deeper grooves into that plastic piece the last time I serviced it. I've been using motor oil, mainly due to winter temps, although I'll probably put the 100 back in when temps go back up.

I should have the fork back soon-ish, so I can run the diagnostics discussed earlier to see if the damper was the problem


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Adodero said:


> I've been running an RXF36 M.2 for the last few months. By that, I mean I rode it for a month, haven't run it since due to COVID, and gained 4 lbs. Still lower than when I joined this thread, though...
> 
> A friend has been running the fork while he waits on his to show up. I haven't had a chance to drop the lowers again to see if the oil is still trapped, although I did cut some deeper grooves into that plastic piece the last time I serviced it. I've been using motor oil, mainly due to winter temps, although I'll probably put the 100 back in when temps go back up.
> 
> I should have the fork back soon-ish, so I can run the diagnostics discussed earlier to see if the damper was the problem


Comparison to the Ohlins fork would be nice too ;-)


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

springs said:


> Comparison to the Ohlins fork would be nice too ;-)


I've been on the coil, I have not run the air. The folks I know who ran both said that they performed very similar.

The draw for me with Ohlins was that I was frustrated with the timeframe on the lowers for the Mezzer, despite liking how it felt, along with Ohlins being local. I can go to their US HQ and be there in 15min from my house. The reviews I read on the RXF 36 M.2 (the M.2 part seems important) were all really positive, so I figured I'd give it a shot, because I got tired of my lowers knocking around. I was originally going to go with the air version, since it has the Ramp Chamber (IRT-esque), but decided I'd give the coil a shot first.

The fork feels really good. It's more progressive than I expected for a coil fork and there is basically no stiction, I can tap it with my hand and it moves. I've not experienced any dive or anything of that sort, it stands up to it's travel really well. It feels a lot like the Mezzer: smooth, consistent, low stiction, plenty of adjustment.

The chassis stiffness feels good, also. I know they measured the previous iteration of the RXF and found it flexier, I don't know how the M.2 compares, but they supposedly beefed up the crown to help with stiffness. It feels stiff to me and being around 200lbs, I can often induce chassis flex.

The damper seems consistent and very responsive, more than the Mezzer. I was pretty shocked how responsive it was in comparison to basically every other fork (this is #9) I've had in the last two years. It feels like there is very little 'lag' between compression and rebound strokes, if that makes sense. It's a marginal difference, but it's there.

Setup was a bit more tedious. On most forks I've ridden, you can crank the rebound way too slow or way too fast. On the RXF, it all seems marginally different. I run it wide open as a 195-200lb rider, which is a bit unusual for me. I tried a whole range of different rebound settings and the differences seemed really granular, they are there, but there isn't a huge range of rebound adjustment compared to other forks, where you can get the rebound stroke to make the fork knock or creep up, neither happen here even with the firmest spring rate.

This may create a problem for some. I actually wish I could get it slightly faster. On the plus side, Ohlins has a range of 7 or 8 compression and rebound tunes, so if you are lighter, then you may ask them to drop another tune in before they ship it out to you.

I experimented with 3 different spring rates, also, all at the upper end of their spring chart. I started with the white, felt it was undersprung coming from the Mezzer (I think i was a bit over sprung given I had lost 20 lbs during the time I owned my Mezzer and only made small changes), went to the black, felt it was over spring, went back to the white, then down to the blue. The lesson here for me is that getting the right spring rate for the fork was kindof a chore and, at $1250 for the fork, I felt I shouldn't have to drop another $80 on springs.

That ultimately leads to my biggest beef, the fork is f*)$# expensive. Yes, it's only ~100-200 more than most similarly priced forks, but selling a fork at that cost and not including multiple springs to me is kindof poor IMO. That being said, every coil product I've owned required a big investment in springs (I had to buy another $250 of springs for my 11/6 before I got it feeling right, also, annoyingly the original they sent sat me at like 45% sag).

The other knock is that you can't really work on it yourself. You can service the lowers, but the air spring and damper need to go back to Ohlins or a service center

Lastly, you can swap between air and coil because the air spring is a sealed cartridge. That's really nice. Another big draw for me to this fork over other options was the Ramp Chamber, which is IRT-esque, so you get that benefit with the air spring, as well. From what I understand, their ramp chamber is a higher pressure version than IRT and the piston sits in the air spring shaft. I can't speak to how they perform differently yet, but I may try it eventually. TBH not messing with air pressure every time the temp changes has been nice, though.

I maybe have 20 hours on the fork, so not a lot of time to judge long term durability/performance.

Ohlins support for me has been very good, I've emailed them and called them a lot since owning it, they've been really helpful to me.

So for me, the RXF:

Pros: Smooth, consistent, responsive, stands up to it's travel well, good adjustments, tracks well, stiff chassis, can swap between coil and air

Cons: The coil should come with more springs for the price point, rebound tune may be a bit overdamped for lighter riders, no self service

In comparison to the Mezzer...that's a tough one. They are both two of the best forks I've owned, they both feel really good, but IMO the price point on the Mezzer is more appropriate and the ability to service it entirely yourself is something I appreciate.

It's hard for me to knock the Mezzer now that the bushing issues are addressed. I think the Ohlins is marginally better with a bit less stiction and being a bit more responsive, but they both feel really similar.

So what would I do if I could do it over again?

If I was running an air shock in the rear, I would probably get the Mezzer. It matched up really well with my Super Deluxe in the back and balanced out nicely. I've had issues with balance running coils in the rear vs air in the front in the past.

Since I got the shock and the fork at the same time, both coil, if I were to go coil in the rear, I'd probably go Ohlins up front. I didn't try with the Mezzer in the front and TTX in the rear, but past experience has been that air forks and coil shocks can be a chore to balance properly.

It's not really a fair comparison, though, because I haven't tried the RXF air and I haven't run the Mezzer with the coil rear, but that's my impression so far.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

^^^^ Now that's a review :thumbsup: Thanks.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Great info on the Ohlins, thanks! It's pretty much the only fork I haven't owned/ridden and the big yellow O still holds a certain allure from my moto background.

Did you settle on the blue or white spring? Is the fork silent or can you hear the spring rattling at any time?


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

Ohlins is the top fork but some weird design issues, rfx m2 has 580mm axle to crown make it the top fork too, but the worse on coil seems to have 165mm travel (170mm soft springs on some places), strange desing at least so I order a mezzer.

https://www.pmbswiss.ch/ohlins-rxf36-technical-informations


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

springs said:


> Great info on the Ohlins, thanks! It's pretty much the only fork I haven't owned/ridden and the big yellow O still holds a certain allure from my moto background.
> 
> Did you settle on the blue or white spring? Is the fork silent or can you hear the spring rattling at any time?


I have settled on the blue spring for now. The difference in sag between springs seems somewhat minor, the blue tracked better without any downsides I could find.

As for the noise, I haven't noticed it except when the fork is at full extension and the first 5mm or so of compression, you can hear a noise. I wouldn't call it silent, but it isn't rattling around, either. That said, some friends of mine that run the same fork swapped to air because theirs were noisy. I didn't personally notice it, though.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Fleijah said:


> Really interested in trying out a manitou (mattoc or mezzer) fork because of their IRT spring. Currently riding a 160mm pike RC (2018 charger 2, 2019 debonair spring) on my canyon spectral 160/150 (DVO topaz out back which I do love for its bladder driven sensitivity and neg/pos air chamber tunability). I feel the pike lacks support but is overdamped in the high speed department. Closing LSC helps the support but makes it even firmer in rougher chatter. Also the damper limits its small bump sensitivity.
> So I'm now looking for better tunability (which I can perform as an end user without engineering skills) and hopefully better small-bump sensitivity and high speed impact compliance with a better mid-stroke 'platform'. I'm about 88kg geared up, 1,88m if that matters. I ride trail, borderline XC mostly (all my surroundings have to offer unfortunately) but live for the 6x yearly enduro and bikepark trips I make. Is a mattoc or mezzer a sensible switch to fit what I'm looking for? Not afraid to spend plenty of time experimenting with fork set-ups. In fact, I love to.
> Would a mattoc or mezzer work best for me?


We are in the same boat. I have been riding and tuning a Pike for eternity and convinced it could never work for me for all the same reasons you state. So now I need a new fork and I can't say I am excited to try another RS. I posted a thread in this forum about ideas for a new 170mm suspension fork, initially asking about Fox 36 vs 38 and GRIP vs GRIP2 but low and behold someone suggested I look at the Mezzer. 
On paper the MEzzer looks perfect, and I have real world experience with the dual air for my 9 year old son in a Mattoc. I need a cheap 150mm fork for him and found a Mattoc on PinkBike, and was a bit worried about the potential for complexity in tuning a dual air (it had the IRT installed as an aftermarket part). But we tried some settings based on a percentage of his weight vs on the chart Manitou has online (he was lighter than the lowest numbers on that chart) and holy crap, out of the gate it worked like a dream, minimal stiction, good small bump performance and really good big air landing performance that uses the full stroke. I was impressed. I rebuilt it and he has ridden it for a year with not so much as even an adjustment in air pressure or on the dials. I figure what dual air does is help with adjustments for those of us who are either lighter than the shock designers or heavier than them ;-)

So I am taking the plunge and trying the Mezzer. It will be a bit later than I want but it sounds like that guarantees me the new lowers that have fixed a problem discussed upthread, so I will ride the old bike an extra couple of weeks before my new build is complete. Jenson seemed to have the best pricing in the US at $799 and you can get Active Junky to lower it a bit with 3% cash back.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

So I finally got around to pulling the Mezzer apart, as my new lowers arrived and a new damper did, as well.

The damper never appeared overly bloated to me, but not knowing what it should look like in the first place probably contributed to that. The difference between the two when the damper is full extended is pretty dramatic.

This is the original damper, fully extended:









This is the new one:









When I removed the damper, it doesn't appear as though much oil migrated up into the stanchion this time (I did notch out that plastic piece a bit more). The rod wasn't as hard to compress as the previous time when it wouldn't go beyond 50% until it purged.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

looks like it sucked in some bath oil. Interesting what happens first: rubber burst or overfill valve will work.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> looks like it sucked in some bath oil. Interesting what happens first: rubber burst or overfill valve will work.


Judging by my experiences running it while the damper was like this, I would assume the overfill valve blows off before the bladder ruptures. I guess the valve is more of a protection for the bladder than it is something that ensures the proper oil volume, though.


----------



## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

Adodero said:


> I would assume the overfill valve blows off before the bladder ruptures. I guess the valve is more of a protection for the bladder than it is something that ensures the proper oil volume, though.


And you would be right since you are running very different oils in damper and lower legs, oil recirculation GRIP style is not really desirable.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Anyone around 150lbs riding this fork? Or should i really be looking at the Mattoc Pro?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Penny said:


> Anyone around 150lbs riding this fork? Or should i really be looking at the Mattoc Pro?


I'd go based off travel your bike is designed for rather than your weight. But that's me. 
Personally, I think you could set this fork up ideally for just about any weight range...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Penny said:


> Anyone around 150lbs riding this fork? Or should i really be looking at the Mattoc Pro?


I'd get the mezzer - looks so bad ass. Just fitted mine yesterday.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

POAH said:


> I'd get the mezzer - looks so bad ass. Just fitted mine yesterday.


Couldn't agree more. The Mezzer looks and rides every bit the super premium fork part. Absolutely love mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Adodero said:


> So I finally got around to pulling the Mezzer apart, as my new lowers arrived and a new damper did, as well.
> 
> The damper never appeared overly bloated to me, but not knowing what it should look like in the first place probably contributed to that. The difference between the two when the damper is full extended is pretty dramatic.
> 
> ...


Interesting, my damper was 'bloated' like that too when I removed it. I also started getting a top out thunk on the fork when I was lifting the wheel to wheelie. Not sure that's related to the damper or not.

Unfortunately, Hayes insisted I send the fork back for warranty and wouldn't just send out new lowers to me.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

My bath oil kept migrating up the leg and not returning. I really think this was contributing to the stickiness I was feeling so I modded the plastic cap that is screwed into the fork leg to align the damper body to stop the oil getting trapped. Seems to have worked quite well and the fork is holding onto it's initial suppleness much longer and the bath oil is where it should be.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

springs said:


> My bath oil kept migrating up the leg and not returning. I really think this was contributing to the stickiness I was feeling so I modded the plastic cap that is screwed into the fork leg to align the damper body to stop the oil getting trapped. Seems to have worked quite well and the fork is holding onto it's initial suppleness much longer and the bath oil is where it should be.
> View attachment 1333879


More anecdotal evidence that the buffer o-ring that sits loosely on top of that cap when everything is assembled seems to be acting like a check valve. The original grooves are just shallow enough that they may be getting covered up in at least some forks. Fortunately this is about the simplest fix ever. I've not had any problems with consistency in my Mezzer, however I did this when I first had mine apart to reduce travel before installation. I was lucky that a couple of guys had reported this issue right about that same time. I suppose that proves nothing, but with multiple reports of this issue and it being something that could be going on without being obvious, it seems a worthwhile proactive remedy with no downside I can see. The Mezzer is a new design, and a couple of quirks like this trapping of bath oil, and the assembly problem at the factory where the IRT ends up dry inside, and unfortunately there ends up being people riding around with really minor problems leading to noticeably degraded performance. On top of the warranty issues it's a bummer for such a good fork to be getting hamstrung. Hello Pinkbike review?


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Received Mezzer today, can anyone confirm that if I have revision B of Mezzer with TSR bleed ports I should have no issues with lower leg bushings or damper? Thanks


----------



## Frosty2019 (Jan 27, 2019)

torcha said:


> Received Mezzer today, can anyone confirm that if I have revision B of Mezzer with TSR bleed ports I should have no issues with lower leg bushings or damper? Thanks


Looking into my crystal ball I say yes.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Frosty2019 said:


> Looking into my crystal ball I say yes.


Thanks , I wish I had one too.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

I had ordered w Jenson in early May to get one of the new batch they were expecting but they say they dont anticipate getting the stock in until late June. I checked a few other places and Dirt Merchant said they got some in on Friday, including a 44mm offset 29er, so I cancelled my Jenson order and added this to my existing Dirt Merchant order (the new rev of the DHx2 and some TRP brakes).


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

backinmysaddle said:


> I had ordered w Jenson in early May to get one of the new batch they were expecting but they say they dont anticipate getting the stock in until late June. I checked a few other places and Dirt Merchant said they got some in on Friday, including a 44mm offset 29er, so I cancelled my Jenson order and added this to my existing Dirt Merchant order (the new rev of the DHx2 and some TRP brakes).


I am from EU , bought it at https://www.bike24.de/ . manufactured date of my rev B Mezzer is 13.3.2020 , I also saw other big shop https://www.bike-discount.de/ got stock up with Mezzer's this weekend.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> More anecdotal evidence that the buffer o-ring that sits loosely on top of that cap when everything is assembled seems to be acting like a check valve. The original grooves are just shallow enough that they may be getting covered up in at least some forks. Fortunately this is about the simplest fix ever. I've not had any problems with consistency in my Mezzer, however I did this when I first had mine apart to reduce travel before installation. I was lucky that a couple of guys had reported this issue right about that same time. I suppose that proves nothing, but with multiple reports of this issue and it being something that could be going on without being obvious, it seems a worthwhile proactive remedy with no downside I can see. The Mezzer is a new design, and a couple of quirks like this trapping of bath oil, and the assembly problem at the factory where the IRT ends up dry inside, and unfortunately there ends up being people riding around with really minor problems leading to noticeably degraded performance. On top of the warranty issues it's a bummer for such a good fork to be getting hamstrung. Hello Pinkbike review?


Could the downside of this possibly be that the damper ingests more bath oil as these holes allow more oil to flow up
Towards the damper? Just a few posts up there were bladders that were swollen. There is no way that didn't screw up the damping.

Just curious, I'm about to tear mine down when my replacement lowers come in and I'd perform this mod if there are no downsides.

Thanks


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

elsinore said:


> Could the downside of this possibly be that the damper ingests more bath oil as these holes allow more oil to flow up
> Towards the damper? Just a few posts up there were bladders that were swollen. There is no way that didn't screw up the damping.
> 
> Just curious, I'm about to tear mine down when my replacement lowers come in and I'd perform this mod if there are no downsides.
> ...


Damper oil and bath oil are two separate things and the damper can't suck oil in, only vent excess oil out so I doubt this mod would contribute to anything negative.

After my damper vented oil I had a look at my bladder and it was quite swollen at full extension. I'll bleed and fit new lowers (hopefully not much longer!) and fingers crossed the Mezzer will be sorted at last.


----------



## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> On top of the warranty issues it's a bummer for such a good fork to be getting hamstrung. Hello Pinkbike review?


Fascinating thought. I was quite interested in this fork, and still am to some degree. But I have to ask, if you saw this level statistically of issues with Fox or RS, would you have the same attitude?

I get that users find the Mezzer to be really good when it's working. But the ongoing stream of what seems to be QC issues is pretty off-putting to me.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

springs said:


> Damper oil and bath oil are two separate things and the damper can't suck oil in, only vent excess oil out so I doubt this mod would contribute to anything negative.
> 
> After my damper vented oil I had a look at my bladder and it was quite swollen at full extension. I'll bleed and fit new lowers (hopefully not much longer!) and fingers crossed the Mezzer will be sorted at last.


Sealed Dampers can ingest bath oil. My 2016 fox 36 FIT was notorious bad in that way, it would suck in bath oil at full compression and end up being way overdamped as a result. I had to bleed the damn thing after every bike park trip. I think in a way the GRIP damper was developed to resolve that issue. Fox uses much more bath oil volume in the damper side than the Mezzer does, so I'm not sure how much of an issue (If any at all?) this is with the Mezzer. Hence my question about this mod.

I dont see any other way these bladders are overfilled unless they came that way from the factory, or an inproper bleed.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

Thing is, is the new damper that Adodero received how they are supposed to be? No one else has commented on what theirs looked like. 
Dougal, you must have seen a few now. Were they all collapsed or swollen in their extended position?

Only asking because there has been some questionable QC with this fork so who's to say that the collapsed bladder is correct and not a badly bled one that slipped through QC?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

elsinore said:


> Sealed Dampers can ingest bath oil. My 2016 fox 36 FIT was notorious bad in that way, it would suck in bath oil at full compression and end up being way overdamped as a result. I had to bleed the damn thing after every bike park trip. I think in a way the GRIP damper was developed to resolve that issue. Fox uses much more bath oil volume in the damper side than the Mezzer does, so I'm not sure how much of an issue (If any at all?) this is with the Mezzer. Hence my question about this mod.
> 
> I dont see any other way these bladders are overfilled unless they came that way from the factory, or an inproper bleed.


Thanks for that info, I didn't know the bladder type dampers ingested oil...it explains my random damper vent.

I bled my damper tonight, pretty easy job and the difference in damping can now be clearly felt. When I pulled the damper the only noticeable change in damping that I could feel cycling the damper by hand was going from no HSC to full HSC. LSC basically felt like it did nothing. Now I can feel the slight difference that open to fully closed LSC changes make and the damping change from open to closed HSC is even stronger.


----------



## imbecile (Mar 14, 2007)

EDIT: mullen119 mentions it in post #1 of the thread :madman: the blow-off is there to prevent overfilling at service....
Also the service guide says the bladder should be pressurized with the seal head syringe to a "slightly expanded" state before removing both syringes and closing off the system. Which means the bladder would remain in its natural shape at that point. The new damper Adodero got looks like it's either a new design (rev.B?) or it was closed off with the damper shaft compressed and the picture shows it in extended position....


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

elsinore said:


> Could the downside of this possibly be that the damper ingests more bath oil as these holes allow more oil to flow up
> Towards the damper? Just a few posts up there were bladders that were swollen. There is no way that didn't screw up the damping.


I doubt that's the issue with mine, there would have to be enough pressure up there building for it to force the oil past the seals, otherwise the damper oil would leak out into the lowers and stanchion.

My feeling is the culprit is the seal on the shaft.



Blatant said:


> Fascinating thought. I was quite interested in this fork, and still am to some degree. But I have to ask, if you saw this level statistically of issues with Fox or RS, would you have the same attitude?
> 
> I get that users find the Mezzer to be really good when it's working. But the ongoing stream of what seems to be QC issues is pretty off-putting to me.


I wouldn't let it worry you, the majority of the issues were related to bushing slop in the lowers, which wasn't a QC problem from what I understand, it was a design issue that plagued most of the early runs of the fork. That issue should be resolved now.

The remaining problems are likely a minority, which you'll find with any fork or brand. I've had just as many issues with RS and Fox forks, if not more.



imbecile said:


> You guys got me thinking.....a blow-off valve exists because if bath oil is sucked in it can be purged out. Now couple of questions arise: if the seal is perfect and no oil is sucked in, why is there a valve - is the damper meant to be overfilled during bleeding and then excess oil is purged? but if oil is expected to be sucked in why the bath oil is significantly thicker than the damper oil?
> Fox uses same oil for bath and damping in GRIP forks, why not Manitou? Am I missing something here...?
> Also the service guide says the bladder should be "slightly expanded" before removing the syringes and closing off the system. Which means the bladder should remain in its natural shape at that point. The new damper @Adodero got looks like it's either a new design (rev.B?) or it was closed off with the damper shaft compressed....


I don't think the Mezzer damper is designed with the same intent as the GRIP, where the GRIP damper is designed around ingestion of the bath oil and purging at the valve at the top, which guarantees proper oil volume. From what I gather, the valve on the Mezzer damper is around protecting the bladder from rupturing, not proper oil volume, but that's just an assumption.

Without an IFP, I'm not sure how you'd build a damper to guarantee oil volume unless the oil volume perfectly matches the amount of pressure built up on the bladder while at full compression inside the stanchion.

Regarding my new damper, it's possible it's underfilled. I'd be curious to hear how other new ones were


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Blatant said:


> Fascinating thought. I was quite interested in this fork, and still am to some degree. But I have to ask, if you saw this level statistically of issues with Fox or RS, would you have the same attitude?
> 
> I get that users find the Mezzer to be really good when it's working. But the ongoing stream of what seems to be QC issues is pretty off-putting to me.


Fox tends to glop their negative chambers full of grease. The two new Factory 34s I have bought in the last few years both needed the air spring opened up and cleaned out. It's similar to the Mezzer having grease glopped on the bottom of the IRT piston but being dry inside as mine was delivered. It's a stupid problem for any fork to have, such basic carelessness on assembly. I give pretty much anything I buy a solid going over for assembly problems, and anyone who wrenches their own bikes should do the same. So should professional reviewers, it would be useful information for the reader and it might prevent problems during a review. That was the only real issue I have observed with my Mezzer, and I fixed it in about 30 seconds before it ever went on the bike. The cap grooves I modified to be proactive because it still isn't known to be a common problem but it was such an incredibly simple thing to do with no drawbacks. The other warranty issues people have reported were dealt with by Manitou, and such things are not uncommon for a new model of fork. Hopefully they are solved and I would love for people with new production forks to find that their IRT chambers are properly lubed out of the box, but they should be checking either way. The fork has been trouble free and a great performer, it is plenty good enough to deal with minor initial hassles, but yeah I do wish it wasn't necessary on any new fork from any manufacturer.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> I don't think the Mezzer damper is designed with the same intent as the GRIP, where the GRIP damper is designed around ingestion of the bath oil and purging at the valve at the top, which guarantees proper oil volume. From what I gather, the valve on the Mezzer damper is around protecting the bladder from rupturing, not proper oil volume, but that's just an assumption.
> 
> Without an IFP, I'm not sure how you'd build a damper to guarantee oil volume unless the oil volume perfectly matches the amount of pressure built up on the bladder while at full compression inside the stanchion.
> 
> Regarding my new damper, it's possible it's underfilled. I'd be curious to hear how other new ones were


I think your new one looks about right, I've always believed bladder dampers should look sucked down at full extension and slightly plump at full compression. At least the ones I have seen from new were always like that, and I've bled them to match. They are intended to be bled to that point, and in the case of the Mezzer, if it does ingest too much bath oil it can purge but I would hope that isn't a common situation. It does seem that the Mezzer service guide is confusing on this point.

I'm still confused about what is going on with the plump dampers that have been posted. Are they all pictured at full extension? Is it all oil or is there any air in them? Bath oil can really only get in around the shaft seal, and it's not unheard of for even dampers that are intended to remain sealed to consume some that way, hopefully that does not prove to be a common issue with the Mezzer. Either way deep slotting the stanchion end cap would not cause or solve this problem. Actually, if there is excessive pressure building up in the lowers on deep compression contributing to that pressure helping force bath oil past the seal, it may help the issue if it allows more free flow of air inside the fork leg between the lower and the inside of the stanchion to reduce peak pressure inside the lowers at the seal. But that's purely off the cuff conjecture on my part.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Yes all dampers ingest oil. There is a tradeoff between sealing and friction, if you wanted a damper that didn't ingest any oil the seal friction would be so great you'd have no small bump response.

The Mezzer bladders can safely be between relaxed and partly sucked in at full extension. If they are ballooned at full extension then they'll vent the excess oil out when compressed. If they ingest too much oil then they'll also vent the excess out.

There are a couple of owners here with oil up in the stanchions and I believe the only way it can get up there (without leaving your bike hangin) is via the damper. Which is why I have been asking about oil colour.

Stock damper oil is blue/green, stock bath oil is light brown. If you have blue oil in the lower legs then the damper has been venting and is possibly ingesting too much oil. In which case the damper seal needs looked at.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Yes all dampers ingest oil. There is a tradeoff between sealing and friction, if you wanted a damper that didn't ingest any oil the seal friction would be so great you'd have no small bump response.
> 
> The Mezzer bladders can safely be between relaxed and partly sucked in at full extension. If they are ballooned at full extension then they'll vent the excess oil out when compressed. If they ingest too much oil then they'll also vent the excess out.
> 
> ...


So would it be accurate to say that for a bladder style damper like the Mezzer's or a Fox FIT4 that some small amount of bath oil would be expected to be ingested during normal use, but it would typically not be so much as to have a significant affect on the performance of the damper before the next regular service?

Oil in the stanchions- Humor me here as I pound on this horse some more, I'm just not sure if he is dead yet. And please tell me if any of this makes sense or I am full on cranial-anal. I'm still trying to hash out what is going on with that stanchion cap and what the intention of the design is. And it seems like there is another way for bath oil to get into the stanchions. By having that cap screwed into the bottom of the stanchion they have created a pinch point for internal air flow. Compare the configuration to something like a Fox 34, where there is no cap and the bottom of the stanchion is wide open around the damper. Air can freely flow around the entire internal space of the fork, and oil can splash around wherever it wants and will never accumulate in the stanchion.

Apparently Manitou decided to provide some additional support for the damper by adding the cap to their design. It fits close but not tight on the damper seal head, and there is an o-ring on the outside of the damper that is located on top of the cap, but it doesn't seem like it is meant to create a seal on the cap. So when the fork compresses the space inside the lower will see an increase in pressure and air will briefly want to go from the lowers to the inside of the stanchion through that cap. With that air movement it could force some bath oil up there with it, and my other unproven theory is that the o-ring could be acting something like a check valve and trapping that oil in some cases. The thing about that is, the stanchion would also be pressurized if it were truly trapping air and oil from the lower, and this seems somewhat unlikely to me. Maybe the air can bleed and some of the oil gets left behind. Either way, extending the grooves in the cap or otherwise venting it to the lower would prevent this trapping of oil, and allow easier flow of air into and out of the inside of the stanchion. I don't expect the quantity of oil moving into the stanchion with any single significant fork action is much, but if it gets trapped it would add up over time. It also seems like a deep compression event will create a rapid and significant rise in pressure inside the fork lower, the shaft seal would be exposed to this pressure and I am curious if this would increase oil ingestion as compared to the significantly lower peak pressures it would see with the stanchion open to free air flow.

The possibility of ingested or overfilled oil forcing a purge of damper oil into the stanchion is a separate but maybe related issue further complicating what is going on for the affected forks. One possible fix is very easy, the other not so much. Thanks for pointing out the differences in oil color, the observed color of the oil will be a crucial clue here. It seems that eliminating any restrictions to internal air flow and oil drainback would simplify matters, unless there is some reason that the cap is intended to separate the inside of the stanchion from the rest of the inside of the lowers.

I'm going to try and finally open up my fork tonight and see if anything interesting is going on. Hopefully it will will have matching bath oil in both lowers and look just like I remember it. It hasn't been opened up since installation, the cap has been vented since day 1, and it has always felt consistently excellent. So that would not exactly be proof of anything but it will be good to know.


----------



## Myers005 (Jan 31, 2011)

Wondering what folks think about the Mezzer for light riders? I'm a bit under 140lbs/63kg (without gear), ride in SoCal, so lots of steep up and down, rocky, loose, and I'm not super aggressive. I have a Fox 36 with Vorsprung Fractive damper which is a major improvement, but it still is harsh off the top and on small repeated bumps. Would I be able to tune the Mezzer to smooth out the ride or is the damper too firm for my weight and riding style?


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Myers005 said:


> Wondering what folks think about the Mezzer for light riders? I'm a bit under 140lbs/63kg (without gear), ride in SoCal, so lots of steep up and down, rocky, loose, and I'm not super aggressive. I have a Fox 36 with Vorsprung Fractive damper which is a major improvement, but it still is harsh off the top and on small repeated bumps. Would I be able to tune the Mezzer to smooth out the ride or is the damper too firm for my weight and riding style?


I am also lighter one , think we have to do collective meditation and put Dougal off the bike and 
bring us what he promissed in #860


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Does this one have the updated lowers? https://www.jensonusa.com/Manitou-Mezzer-Pro-275-Fork?_br_psugg_q=mezzer


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Myers005 said:


> Wondering what folks think about the Mezzer for light riders? I'm a bit under 140lbs/63kg (without gear), ride in SoCal, so lots of steep up and down, rocky, loose, and I'm not super aggressive. I have a Fox 36 with Vorsprung Fractive damper which is a major improvement, but it still is harsh off the top and on small repeated bumps. Would I be able to tune the Mezzer to smooth out the ride or is the damper too firm for my weight and riding style?


Curious if you are in that weight range why not just stick with a 34/35 fork stantion and save weight? I feel like at 220+ lbs you need the stiffness and its fine to pay a bit of weight penalty.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

backinmysaddle said:


> Curious if you are in that weight range why not just stick with a 34/35 fork stantion and save weight? I feel like at 220+ lbs you need the stiffness and its fine to pay a bit of weight penalty.


it isn't just about the stiffness but the airspring is improved over the mattoc


----------



## Myers005 (Jan 31, 2011)

For me it’s more about being able to get better small bump performance, which I haven’t been able to do unless I drop air pressure too low . I don’t need the stiffness but want a fork that will work for my weight. For the Fox going to a coil spring might work but that will weigh more than the Mezzer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> So would it be accurate to say that for a bladder style damper like the Mezzer's or a Fox FIT4 that some small amount of bath oil would be expected to be ingested during normal use, but it would typically not be so much as to have a significant affect on the performance of the damper before the next regular service?
> 
> Oil in the stanchions- Humor me here as I pound on this horse some more, I'm just not sure if he is dead yet. And please tell me if any of this makes sense or I am full on cranial-anal. I'm still trying to hash out what is going on with that stanchion cap and what the intention of the design is. And it seems like there is another way for bath oil to get into the stanchions. By having that cap screwed into the bottom of the stanchion they have created a pinch point for internal air flow. Compare the configuration to something like a Fox 34, where there is no cap and the bottom of the stanchion is wide open around the damper. Air can freely flow around the entire internal space of the fork, and oil can splash around wherever it wants and will never accumulate in the stanchion.
> 
> ...


Yes all bladder dampers ingest oil. When the lower seals wear it happens faster. If you don't service them in time it's either reduced travel or a popped bladder (depending on how hard it is used). Manitou's blowoff valve prevents the popped bladder or reduced travel problem. But it can also make a lower seal problem harder to spot.

The end-cap is to provide support to the bottom-out bumpers. Otherwise you'd have a sharp stanchion edge straight down onto it. Yes it will breathe air and oil up and down from the stanchion during compression. But it should breath the same in both directions and gravity will help more oil get out. Gapping the cap should make no difference. It should be a harmless mod.

I haven't had any trapped oil in my Mezzer which makes this harder to nail down for the few guys who have.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Myers005 said:


> Wondering what folks think about the Mezzer for light riders? I'm a bit under 140lbs/63kg (without gear), ride in SoCal, so lots of steep up and down, rocky, loose, and I'm not super aggressive. I have a Fox 36 with Vorsprung Fractive damper which is a major improvement, but it still is harsh off the top and on small repeated bumps. Would I be able to tune the Mezzer to smooth out the ride or is the damper too firm for my weight and riding style?


Compared to the Mattoc the Mezzer has a more progressive air-spring. This is why your IRT settings for the Mezzer end up lower.
For example I run between 35/55 and 40/60psi in the Mezzer. I was running 40/80 and 30/90 in my Mattoc.

The Mezzer does have better small bump response due to a bigger negative chamber.

I do have some ideas for making the Mezzer better for lighter riders, but it's a whole project in itself.



Penny said:


> Does this one have the updated lowers? https://www.jensonusa.com/Manitou-Mezzer-Pro-275-Fork?_br_psugg_q=mezzer


Site says discontinued!

The bushing problem was fixed very early and all sold forks will have that. The bleed ports are a more recent addition.



Myers005 said:


> For me it's more about being able to get better small bump performance, which I haven't been able to do unless I drop air pressure too low . I don't need the stiffness but want a fork that will work for my weight. For the Fox going to a coil spring might work but that will weigh more than the Mezzer.


Mezzer has the best small bump response of all Manitou single crown forks. The Dorado is well worth a ride if you can snag one. But that's a different topic.


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Penny said:


> Does this one have the updated lowers? https://www.jensonusa.com/Manitou-Mezzer-Pro-275-Fork?_br_psugg_q=mezzer


I had one on order from Jenson, they didnt say June when I ordered (I think it was saying late May) but when I inquired they said 3rd week of June. I had asked Dirt Merchant via PinkBike if they had any and they said they got some in over the weekend with the new lowers. They are the only place in the US I could find in the $800 range with ones in stock, but admittedly I didnt look that far...


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

backinmysaddle said:


> They are the only place in the US I could find in the $800 range with ones in stock, but admittedly I didnt look that far...


I know what they go for wholesale. Dirtmerchant isn't making any money selling them for 800$.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Adodero said:


> So I finally got around to pulling the Mezzer apart, as my new lowers arrived and a new damper did, as well.
> 
> The damper never appeared overly bloated to me, but not knowing what it should look like in the first place probably contributed to that. The difference between the two when the damper is full extended is pretty dramatic.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the damping forces are different compared to original , how does it feel? It would be nice to have a list/timeline of fixes and evolution on Mezzer , bushings , bumpers , bleed ports, damper? who knows what else? Anyone in closer touch with Manitou who can dig out from them?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

My bottom out bumpers separated from the lowers, any risk in using it?
I just put them back in their position, closed it and the fork seems fine.
Honestly i don't want to give away my lowers for a little problem like this, my bushings are perfect....


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

davideb87 said:


> My bottom out bumpers separated from the lowers, any risk in using it?
> I just put them back in their position, closed it and the fork seems fine.
> Honestly i don't want to give away my lowers for a little problem like this, my bushings are perfect....


Yes probably best to get it replaced. The bumpers will keep getting dislodged and if they happen to not be lying flat at time when you bottom out the fork they'll get crushed and deformed. There was photo posted earlier of a crushed bumper.

When I turned my bike upside down I could here the bumpers rattling around in the lower leg.

Whether you need to send the fork back or Hayes will send a new lower casting out seems inconsistent. They've done it both ways. I've had to send my fork back others haven't.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Thanks!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Compared to the Mattoc the Mezzer has a more progressive air-spring. This is why your IRT settings for the Mezzer end up lower.
> For example I run between 35/55 and 40/60psi in the Mezzer.


out of curiosity whats your weight and what do you ride. are you running lots of compression?


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up --
I just ordered from Dirt merchant


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

locominute said:


> Thanks for the heads up --
> I just ordered from Dirt merchant


Hey, me too!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

thought I would share my set up so far. The current lockdown in Scotland is quite harsh so can't really go anywhere. Using my local park to set it up as best I can with stairs to jump and ride down, rocks to simulate rolling steep drops and a short section of very rooty trail. 

mezzer is set to 170mm and I'm about 78-79kg kitted up. Rear is a cane creek DB IL coil. bike is a mk1 Transition Patrol 

main - 60psi
IRT - 80psi
LSC - 5 from open
HSC - 2 from open
rebound not an actual clue so I should probably check that one for my records ha ha ha.

Settings may or may not change when I actually get out on to some decent trails. overall super happy with the fork so far.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Here are some spring-rate equivalents (mid-stroke) for the Mezzer IRT system. I've created these based off charts from the Manitou engineering team. Primarily for to get equivalence to my spring-rate calculators for quick and easy setup.
> 
> Spring rate calculators: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/calculators-14/bike-spring-rate-calculators
> 
> ...


Hi Dougal , why is in your calcul bigger gap between IRT presures for 35 and 40 lb/in , I mean for the rest I see plus 5 psi main = 10 psi plus irt , but not in case of 35-40 ? Thank you


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> Hi Dougal , why is in your calcul bigger gap between IRT presures for 35 and 40 lb/in , I mean for the rest I see plus 5 psi main = 10 psi plus irt , but not in case of 35-40 ? Thank you


I was transcribing existing pressure plots to the nearest spring-rate. It's not perfect steps but more a good place to start.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I was transcribing existing pressure plots to the nearest spring-rate. It's not perfect steps but more a good place to start.


are these graphs available to public? I do not see any on manitou web


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> are these graphs available to public? I do not see any on manitou web


No.


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

I made some pics of new unit, oil is trapped on damper leg so here is a different aproach of what I've seen.
Damper full extended and full crompessed brand new as come on the other pic.

My concerns are,
The bottom nuts came a bit loose, 4.5 Nm seems low, is it dangerous? Not to mention I have not a CCW torque wrench.
The dust seals came with zero lube (without usual grease) may I grease them?

The air sensitivity compared with a boxxer and Marzocchi Z1 is from other planet, I was thinking a DIY coil conversion but now I am not. May be for less manteinance in the future.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

edge540T said:


> I made some pics of new unit, oil is trapped on damper leg so here is a different aproach of what I've seen.
> Damper full extended and full crompessed brand new as come on the other pic.
> 
> My concerns are,
> ...


Don't over-tighten the foot nuts, you will snap the threaded shaft on the damper and air spring.


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

elsinore said:


> Don't over-tighten the foot nuts, you will snap the threaded shaft on the damper and air spring.


That's the question, sits on that seems a rubber washer + 4.5Nm seems dangerous, it's a concern but can become paranoia for me XD, may be some loctite keeps my mind out of it.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Tuning Question:

Still loving the Mezzer, but was hoping to get some advice on what to try next. Currently:

160mm, 50/90PSI, HSC = Fully Open, LSC - 3-5 clicks from Open depending on terrain, Rebound - 4 clicks from open. Rider Weight ~ 180lb, Bike weight ~ 40lb (levo SL with HTA ~65.5 deg).

Overall - I am looking for a bit more compliance in chunk at speed on steep (10%+ grade) trails. I generally hit the HBO a few times per ride (which on my old Lyrik + RUNT I rarely ever hit bottom). Should I try dropping main chamber pressure more? I did try 40PSI at one point (can't recall the IRT), but it felt like my ride height was fairly low dynamically throughout the ride. I personally would like the fork to remain high in it's travel to maintain geometry.

I can also open on LSC more, but I think that would contribute to the lower dynamic ride height. I do feel like the overall compression tune could be a bit softer as it's fairly firm, and I am mostly open, but not sure where to start on that. My adjusted lyrik definitely has less "resistance" and is more supple off the top, but that could be due to the negative chamber "sucking down" the fork on the pre-2021 models. 

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

jcmonty said:


> Tuning Question:
> 
> Still loving the Mezzer, but was hoping to get some advice on what to try next. Currently:
> 
> ...


It sounds like you've been tuning in the opposite direction of your diagnosis? Like, you're an 180lb dude riding steep trails on a 40lb bike. You're running 10psi low for your weight... with circumstances where you'd expect to need more air.

Harshness is probably from having a really low dynamic ride height. I'd try putting the main chamber back at 60 like manitou recommends, and add a click of HSC and back off the LSC.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

scottzg said:


> It sounds like you've been tuning in the opposite direction of your diagnosis? Like, you're an 180lb dude riding steep trails on a 40lb bike. You're running 10psi low for your weight... with circumstances where you'd expect to need more air.
> 
> Harshness is probably from having a really low dynamic ride height. I'd try putting the main chamber back at 60 like manitou recommends, and add a click of HSC and back off the LSC.


Fair point. I did try more "stock" setting according to the setup guide with higher pressures and ended up here. From searching through this thread, it seemed that folks were running lower pressures overall than the setup guide indicated for their weight.

All that being said, I may try upping a decent amount to see if my opinions have changed. Still weighing going to 170mm as well, which may help do what I am looking for, but would like to try some more ideas on 160 first.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

IRT thoughts, I am running this in my head for some time so I let it out for fresh air of yours 

I have this dilemma: increasing IRT pressure should give you more support and stay higher in the travel , but isn't it true that increasing IRT pressure moves way up the point when it gets engaged through the travel and thus weakening the midstroke support?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

jcmonty said:


> Tuning Question:
> 
> Still loving the Mezzer, but was hoping to get some advice on what to try next. Currently:
> 
> 160mm, 50/90PSI, HSC = Fully Open, LSC - 3-5 clicks from Open depending on terrain, Rebound - 4 clicks from open. Rider Weight ~ 180lb, Bike weight ~ 40lb (levo SL with HTA ~65.5 deg).


similar weight and HA of bike

60/80psi HSC 2, LSC 5 rebound not a clue need to see what it is lol


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

torcha said:


> I wonder if the damping forces are different compared to original , how does it feel?


I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Between quarantine for 5 weeks, a week of straight rain, and now injured feet, I've not been riding very much.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

torcha said:


> IRT thoughts, I am running this in my head for some time so I let it out for fresh air of yours
> 
> I have this dilemma: increasing IRT pressure should give you more support and stay higher in the travel , but isn't it true that increasing IRT pressure moves way up the point when it gets engaged through the travel and thus weakening the midstroke support?


Nah, more pressure = more mistroke. It will engage later as it will take more lower chamber pressure built up to start it moving.


----------



## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

Its too bad we couldnt have a shock/fork database where everyone inputs their settings for their weight range. It could clarify whether the manufacturers recommended settings were too soft or too hard and give new owners a place to start. 

To add a data point for this fork, which I am liking a lot so far. Here are my settings so far. 

Backstory:My Mezzer replaced a MRP Ribbon Coil 160mm, 51mm offset fork which, to me, was not as great as everyone said it was. Not to mention the feeling of it changed from ride to ride with no change in settings. Flipping it upside down seemed to help sometimes. This may have something to do with the lubrication of the seals, I am not sure. Always felt it could be a little more supple while still being supportive. 

Currently I have the fork installed on my Ripmo V1 at 160mm travel. The offset is 44mm. My weight is 200lbs with a mildly fast, aggressive riding style. Im not hitting huge jumps, hucks to flat or gnarly downhill runs all the time, but I do like to go fast and hit every jump, bump, log, or rock garden on the trail just for the fun of it. The air pressure is 50/100, HSC is 2 clicks from open, LSC is 4 clicks from open, Rebound is 4 clicks from closed. I like the fork to be supportive but with a nice soft initial stroke and not use all my travel just because I paid for it. I cant stand when a fork dives excessively. 

I am not sure if I have left anything on the table so I will keep tinkering and tuning with it..


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

*Mezzer + J-armed bike rack solution?*

Has anyone figured out how to setup a bike rack like this https://www.rackattack.com/img/product/yakima-drtray-2inch.jpg (j-shaped arm over front wheel) , so as to not rub against the stanchions on a manitou fork, and is not too big of a pain to setup or pricey?

I tried to rotate my bars 180 when mounting the bike on the rack, so the reverse arch is out front, but I don't have enough slack on my front brake line. I could add more brake line, but that violates the "not a pain" part (adding new line + bleeding).

My rack will always rub up against the fork, likely due to a smaller tray size.

thx!


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Notorious_BIL said:


> Has anyone figured out how to setup a bike rack like this https://www.rackattack.com/img/product/yakima-drtray-2inch.jpg (j-shaped arm over front wheel) , so as to not rub against the stanchions on a manitou fork, and is not too big of a pain to setup or pricey?
> 
> I tried to rotate my bars 180 when mounting the bike on the rack, so the reverse arch is out front, but I don't have enough slack on my front brake line. I could add more brake line, but that violates the "not a pain" part (adding new line + bleeding).
> 
> ...


I have a Kuat NV2 and honestly, I just pushed the guard up against the stanchion. Been doing it with Manitou forks for the last 4+ years and it has never caused an issue. It bothered me when I first got the rack but I don't even think about it anymore. The rubber on the arm is more than enough to prevent any wear.


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

mullen119 said:


> I have a Kuat NV2 and honestly, I just pushed the guard up against the stanchion. Been doing it with Manitou forks for the last 4+ years and it has never caused an issue. It bothered me when I first got the rack but I don't even think about it anymore. The rubber on the arm is more than enough to prevent any wear.


Thanks for that feedback (and the tech posts in this thread).

My rubber arm, yakima dr tray, did eventually wear off paint on a spot on my lyric, so I am hesitant to risk it. Maybe some J-armed racks do don't put much pressure where the arm contacts the fork, but I think mine does.


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

Penny said:


> Hey, me too!


. Thanks


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

I would like to put 200mm rotors on the front.
Might somebody be able to tell me which brake rotor adapter to get?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

locominute said:


> I would like to put 200mm rotors on the front.
> Might somebody be able to tell me which brake rotor adapter to get?


160-180 post to post adaptor.


----------



## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

I'm debatting between a Mattoc and a Mezzer for my Hightower (v1), 135mm rear. I plan on running it at 140 mm (29") but would also like to try 150 mm in case I like that better. Alas the Mattoc doesn't go to 150 mm and I'm slightly worried about the Mezzer performance at 140 mm. I'm 73 kg.
I currently have a harsh pike and I'm looking for more plushness, especially when riding over roots.
Which one should I go with?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Kadath said:


> I'm debatting between a Mattoc and a Mezzer for my Hightower (v1), 135mm rear. I plan on running it at 140 mm (29") but would also like to try 150 mm in case I like that better. Alas the Mattoc doesn't go to 150 mm and I'm slightly worried about the Mezzer performance at 140 mm. I'm 73 kg.
> I currently have a harsh pike and I'm looking for more plushness, especially when riding over roots.
> Which one should I go with?


I'm running my mezzer at 150. I read someone on here say that the air spring gets more finicky when you lower it, but i have no complaints about the spring. I wouldn't know it was lowered going by how it rides.

The mezzer VASTLY outperforms my pike rct3, which i was never happy with. I don't have any experience with the mattoc.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Kadath said:


> I'm debatting between a Mattoc and a Mezzer for my Hightower (v1), 135mm rear. I plan on running it at 140 mm (29") but would also like to try 150 mm in case I like that better. Alas the Mattoc doesn't go to 150 mm and I'm slightly worried about the Mezzer performance at 140 mm. I'm 73 kg.
> I currently have a harsh pike and I'm looking for more plushness, especially when riding over roots.
> Which one should I go with?


I am running Mezzer at 150 mm / 160lbs and no problem and using 145 mm of travel if I want or bottom out if I want , I had Mattoc before and the HBO is just set too firm there , I was never able to use more than 135 of 150 mm travel no matter what I did. You will be probably also able to ride lower pressure on Mezzer than Mattoc.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

torcha said:


> I am running Mezzer at 150 mm / 160lbs and no problem and using 145 mm of travel if I want or bottom out if I want , I had Mattoc before and the HBO is just set too firm there , I was never able to use more than 135 of 150 mm travel no matter what I did. You will be probably also able to ride lower pressure on Mezzer than Mattoc.


sounds like overfilled damper, resulted in hydrolock


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

jimarin said:


> Nah, more pressure = more mistroke. It will engage later as it will take more lower chamber pressure built up to start it moving.


well I took the time and experiment today a bit and I think my idea is not completely out
160lbs/150mm , I was going over big rooty segment over and over 
started with :
38/78/all open/middle rebound, fork was shooting high in travel and harsh 
38/68 still the same as the above 
at 38/63 no more shooting high , stay close above the middle, I repeated several times with same results , fork was bit too vallowy and poppy so I added to have +5lsc +7 rebound

seems the best I had so far to have soft beginning and enough support

so I question again that more IRT to MAIN ratio means always better midstroke support  I hope you are not gonna smash me


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

I think the pressure chart is a bit too hard at 180mm, but okay at 160mm. If I travel down the Mezzer to 160mm via Dorado effect - then I can use the pressure from the list pretty well. If however I am at 180mm - I need to go minimum 10 PSI down (68kg today riding weight). 

It's true that at 68kg with running 180mm the HSC dial is pretty useless. Only fully open makes sense. Not sure yet where I find the best LSC setting.


Why Mezzer not Mattoc or other 35mm fork? Simply because when going down somewhere really steep heavy on the brakes - forks like Fox 36 or Pike behave like crap and develop a lot of stiction. Stiff forks (especially of course dual crown) continue to work very well. Also I want 170-180mm travel - so most forks are out anyhow. 


Just had one ride on my Mezzer - but definitely love it. Will move to a new frame next week - until then 180mm is not nice on my BMC trailfox for uphill. Will try to get a dorado effect aircap - so I can easily change travel on the trail without getting the pump out. On my trailfox 150mm for uphill or easy trails, 180mm for the rough and down. Love that travel is so easy to change - it's a bit of a pain to get the pump out (makes only sense if uphill is 1000m altitude or so). If I have a dorado effect aircap - I think 200-300m altitude uphill is already a consideration to change travel - and will run 180mm then only for bikepark, steep stuff or really long descents (over 1000m downhill).

before I rode a Pike RCT3 160 29mm with 51mm offset and AWK (like IRT) - but it had way too much stiction while breaking, the damping (charger 1) was worse, so it's not even a comparison Mezzer vs Pike. Then however for going uphill with rear shock blocked, locking the fork too is nice. However if I can lower the Mezzer easily via aircap - it will be even for uphills.

I also do think - out of the box it's the best fork right now from the big brands. I do think the Intend and the Öhlins RXF M2. Coil are as good, but they are not available in 180mm, and way more expensive. I guess also a Lyrik Ultimate Coil or Fox 38 Coil will be at the same level. At it's weight the Mezzer cannot be beaten however right now I think. And the service valves are great. Just hope it's low maintenance.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Has anyone else had the through-axle back out? I've had it happen twice.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

@Dougal

Which thread do the holes on the back of the new lowers have, M5? 

I'd like to mount pressure bleed valves which use that thread


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> @Dougal
> 
> Which thread do the holes on the back of the new lowers have, M5?
> 
> I'd like to mount pressure bleed valves which use that thread


I am curious which valves ? Something like this ?

https://alexnld.com/product/m5x0-8-...so3FvDEFV1sRaP3mO_ZfjISarKHm0ZNBoCDAMQAvD_BwE


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> @Dougal
> 
> Which thread do the holes on the back of the new lowers have, M5?
> 
> I'd like to mount pressure bleed valves which use that thread


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Took my Mezzer out for it's first ride this morning and all I can say is WOW. This is how a fork is supposed to feel. Most recently I've been riding a Lyrik RC2 with the 2.1 damper. 

Mezzer:
-Doesn't spike. The Lyrik freaking sucked in this category.
-Great small bump compliance.
-Can run rebound a little faster without getting tossed around, more composure.
-I can run 20% sag and it smashes rocks like a monster truck while staying in the midstroke. The Lyrik was super harsh at 20% sag and dove too much at 30% sag. 

I've also tried a Ribbon and Ribbon Coil and the Mezzer is light years better than those forks. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd changed anything about it. It's that good. Hopefully it ends up being durable as well.

Settings:
Weight: 150lbs
Travel: 160mm
PSI: 44/70
HSC: one click from open
LSC: 4 clicks from open (not sure how much this does)
Rebound: 5 clicks from open

I started with 49/80 psi based on the guide, but it felt a little firm in the garage. I'll give it a try on the trail, but based on my first ride, I'm not sure I need to increase air pressure.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Penny said:


> Took my Mezzer out for it's first ride this morning and all I can say is WOW. This is how a fork is supposed to feel. Most recently I've been riding a Lyrik RC2 with the 2.1 damper.
> 
> Mezzer:
> -Doesn't spike. The Lyrik freaking sucked in this category.
> ...


What didn't you like about the Ribbon Coil?


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Curveball said:


> What didn't you like about the Ribbon Coil?


It wasn't supportive or composed. It just didn't feel as refined as other forks I've ridden.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Penny said:


> Took my Mezzer out for it's first ride this morning and all I can say is WOW. This is how a fork is supposed to feel. Most recently I've been riding a Lyrik RC2 with the 2.1 damper.
> 
> Mezzer:
> -Doesn't spike. The Lyrik freaking sucked in this category.
> ...


Sounds about like my experience...only I actually took a Lyrik Ultimate, added a Push HC97 AND Vorsprung Smashpot into it and the Mezzer still is better riding. Really composed without being harsh.

Liked it so much, I went and put a Manitou McLeod in place of my DVO Jade rear shock.

Sad I didn't consider Manitou much earlier, as I could have saved myself a lot of time and $

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

Whats sad is to think of all the people drinking the Rockshox and Fox koolaid and having to live with their short comings. 

Just imagine where we could be if Manitou influenced every manufacturer to step their game up.


----------



## crashing_sux (Aug 11, 2006)

@dougal I noticed on https://www.shockcraft.co.nz that you produce some custom top caps. Would it be possible for you to design a top cap for the mezzer that separated the negative chamber equalizing function from the air adding function? As in had a valve to add air, and a separate button to equalize? I hope this isn't a dumb question as I don't have my Mezzer in my hands yet, it is backordered, so I can't look inside to see if this is obviously impossible or not. If you could design something like that I would definitely want to purchase one, it would allow me to use my shockwiz on the fork, while also allowing me a push-button travel adjust feature. Or at least that is what I hope it would give me.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

crashing_sux said:


> @dougal I noticed on https://www.shockcraft.co.nz that you produce some custom top caps. Would it be possible for you to design a top cap for the mezzer that separated the negative chamber equalizing function from the air adding function? As in had a valve to add air, and a separate button to equalize? I hope this isn't a dumb question as I don't have my Mezzer in my hands yet, it is backordered, so I can't look inside to see if this is obviously impossible or not. If you could design something like that I would definitely want to purchase one, it would allow me to use my shockwiz on the fork, while also allowing me a push-button travel adjust feature. Or at least that is what I hope it would give me.


There was a German company doing a push button air cap for one fork. I can't remember which one.
It's not a priority for me as travel adjust isn't something I'm into. IMO set it up right and you don't need to change length all the time.

Shockwiz is a waste of time. This fork has 3 air-chambers and you can't tell anything useful by trying to read one of them.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> @Dougal
> 
> Which thread do the holes on the back of the new lowers have, M5?
> 
> I'd like to mount pressure bleed valves which use that thread


I haven't checked myself. But one of the guides was using a M5 bleed fitting to pump oil in. So that's a solid clue!


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

Not a company, just a single person produced maybe a hundred of caps.

You just turn in a screw to open up the equalisation. It's airtight as long as the screw is not lost which happened to some. And tolerances by the valve sometimes led to problems. In general it did work as intended. I am going to install it to my mezzer. I like to reduce travel by 4-5cm for long uphills and reduce by 2cm for flatter trails.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

That seems a bit pointless TBH.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> I have a random coil spring that'll fit mine at 180mm. I just haven't had the time to install and test it.
> 
> There are no off-the-shelf kits at this point in time.


What coil length does fit into the 180mm Mezzer? I have a couple from my smashpot kit laying around and I wondered if I could use them if I buy a Mezzer? How do you assemble it?


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/manitou-mattoc-dorradoeffektkappe-sammelbestellfred.796510/page-7

Two people asked me where to get the cap. They are not in production anymore, but you can ask in the above thread if maybe someone doesn't need his one anymore

Btw, the standard shock pump which comes with RockShox or others is really useless for the mezzer. Impossible to replicate the same pressures. Riding at 180mm. If you're at 160 or below the higher pressures make it less problematic.

So that's really not good, you need to buy a 100psi manometer, or max 100 psi shock pump, or maybe a digital pump. Else if you're lightweight it's simply impossible. Below 50 psi the pump is all over the place it seems to me. Yesterday I ran 25/50 and it was too hard. Today I am at 35/55 and maybe some could still add 2-3 psi. Riding without backpack at 66kg naked weight. I'm sure it's just the pump not being correct.

So today I needed to add 1 click hsc from open, and 4-5 clicks lsc from open. Without hsc I am blowing through even with 7-8 clicks lsc from open.. I guess 1-2psi more on the main, 3 on the irt and I could back out the hsc to fully open and lsc 3-4 clicks from open. I think that is better for my weight. Should I go to a Bikepark instead of just trails with smaller jumps, I would add 1click hsc on top, or 10psi to the irt.

So yes, I agree the mezzer is a bit of a ***** to setup without a low pressure shock pump. It doesn't really matter much however if it's a bit too hard, still rides much better than my Pike with Irt (awk). And its pretty temperature dependent. Great fork overall and for me better than any other modern air fork I tried, but I would not recommend it to anyone that doesn't want to play around for optimal setup. Coil forks are much better in that regard.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm considering the Mezzer to replace a 2016 Pike. I'm drawn to Manitou because of the ability and support for users changing their own shim stacks. Is this still an option for the MC2 bladder damper in the Mezzer?


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Until today I wasn't so sure about this fork. I tried assorted pressures below what was recommended- changing hsc/ lsc /rebound but it was never really had that plush feeling.-- Then I coated the stanchions with SC1- what a difference! 
Stiction has been greatly reduced.
small / medium bumps are eaten up well.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

onzadog said:


> I'm considering the Mezzer to replace a 2016 Pike. I'm drawn to Manitou because of the ability and support for users changing their own shim stacks. Is this still an option for the MC2 bladder damper in the Mezzer?


Hi fellow 2016 pike owner.

Yeah, you can change the shims, but the base tune is really good. It's the first fork i've been 100% happy with without faffing with it at all.

2016 pike is hot garbage.


----------



## Frosty2019 (Jan 27, 2019)

locominute said:


> until today i wasn't so sure about this fork. I tried assorted pressures below what was recommended- changing hsc/ lsc /rebound but it was never really had that plush feeling.-- then i coated the stanchions with sc1- what a difference!
> Stiction has been greatly reduced.
> Small / medium bumps are eaten up well.


sc1?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

https://www.maximausa.com/product/sc1/ I suspect versus say DVO Onyx SC 1


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Anyone who knows the tyre clearance for the 27.5" lowers?
Is it possible to run 29x2.5" in them?


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

yes Maxima SC1-sorry about the confusion
- I have also ordered WPL fork lube-- and will give this lubricant a go.
when I heard that the Mezzer would have SKF seals I was hoping that it will be the super slick green seals, but they are not. Maybe in the future they will be offered

In regards to tuning the fork, I find that a digital shock pump is indispensable, especially since 1 to 2 PSI's can make the difference
in the main chamber
this is the one I use
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Venzo-Bike...842187&hash=item5475261764:g:N34AAOSwVCJetUDb

In regards to pumping the main chamber, and not having the fork sucked down, I pump up the IRT first as recommended then
I turn the bike upside down - - now release all the pressure from the main chamber
The fork should extend out to its maximum travel length.
And then have somebody pull up on the front wheel as I pump up the main chamber.
This way I don't get sucked down

Kitted up on about 180lb+ and have the fork set up at 180 mm of travel with 41 psi main 64 IRT
1+ LSC
1+ hsc
2+ rebound
in the fork feels real nice now- but again it was - after I sprayed the stanchions with the Maxima SC 1 that it felt so plush

about 26+ percent sag with the settings
I think I will try a slightly higher psi in the main and open up the HSC just to see if this makes a difference


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Anyone who knows the tyre clearance for the 27.5" lowers?
> Is it possible to run 29x2.5" in them?


This would be a very bad idea. At least wear a ff helmet and a mouthguard if attempting to use the wrong tool for the job.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

What should be the problem if the tyre fits?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> What should be the problem if the tyre fits?


That it will hit the crown on full compression.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

006_007 said:


> This would be a very bad idea. At least wear a ff helmet and a mouthguard if attempting to use the wrong tool for the job.


And a gopro. Don't forget the gopro.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Okay, so still if you have tyre clearance you will hit the crown?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Anyone who knows the tyre clearance for the 27.5" lowers?
> Is it possible to run 29x2.5" in them?


Not a chance. 29" is 20mm bigger in radius than 27.5 and the 27.5x2.6 do not have 20mm of brace clearance.

But because the rest of the fork is the same. You can just buy 29" lowers and convert your fork!


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Maybe, or maybe you get 'sommer teeth' - 'some are over here, some are over there' or end up on PB Friday Fails.

You could maybe get away with it on a low profile tire but short of actually mounting a tire and fully compressing the fork you won't know for sure.

I can't say I would be confident enough to do something like that even if I worked it out in my garage and rode it around my neighborhood streets though.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

MAIN/IRT ratio quick test 160lbs/150mm

I got this idea, I guess I am not the first one, it is not rocket science but it gives you reading of where you are with your set up. 

Measure your SAG. 
Fully attach the pump to IRT chamber 
Slowly press the fork and watch the clock on the pump till it starts to move and stop.(it is much easier to do when you are in pedals)
Measure your o-ring travel on the fork. 

Now you have an idea at which point the IRT comes to play and how far is it from your SAG. 
I also recommend to see with your own eye how big impact it has to add few psi to IRT on it's engage point. 
With my setup it was kind of eye opening to see that with 40/60 I had only 12mm move from SAG to IRT launch , which I guess is not how this fork was intended to run. So I started all over from scratch with my setup. Hope this would help newcommer Mezzer geeks


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

Why not - I think that is fine. You just don't want the IRT chamber to compress already in Sag. It still gives you a more linear curve - and that is why we want it. IRT is not only a ramp up chamber.a

I don't know how much sag you run and how much travel. But with IRT I would run around 25% - same as with a coil spring.
So assuming you have 160mm - then Sag is 40mm. Add 12mm and at 52mm you then have both chambers working. Should give you a pretty nice linear curve. At 180mm I would guess the optimum for both chamber to be active is around 60mm.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

extremecarver said:


> Why not - I think that is fine. You just don't want the IRT chamber to compress already in Sag. It still gives you a more linear curve - and that is why we want it. IRT is not only a ramp up chamber.a
> 
> I don't know how much sag you run and how much travel. But with IRT I would run around 25% - same as with a coil spring.
> So assuming you have 160mm - then Sag is 40mm. Add 12mm and at 52mm you then have both chambers working. Should give you a pretty nice linear curve. At 180mm I would guess the optimum for both chamber to be active is around 60mm.


thanks for your opinion I hope other will share too , I am 160lbs/150mm , the origial SAG was 40mm


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The charts in these two documents help show where you would expect IRT to come into play:

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ments/360056777993/Mattoc_IRT_Setup_Guide.pdf

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ents/360055897974/IVA_and_IRT_Trail_Guide.pdf


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

But for the Mattoc the IRT chamber was bigger. Now it's smaller. That's why now the recommendation is to have a different factor. 
I would think reducing travel - reduces the main chamber size - but not the IRT size. Am I correct? if so then the less travel you have on your Mezzer - the bigger factor I would chose.

There is no reason to use 40/120 on the Mezzer IMHO. If you really want that much ramp up - rather use 1-2 clics of HSC instead.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I'm not saying for specific values, because the forks are different. Just, about where in stroke IRT changes will affect the curve.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

extremecarver said:


> But for the Mattoc the IRT chamber was bigger. Now it's smaller. That's why now the recommendation is to have a different factor.
> I would think reducing travel - reduces the main chamber size - but not the IRT size. Am I correct? if so then the less travel you have on your Mezzer - the bigger factor I would chose.
> 
> There is no reason to use 40/120 on the Mezzer IMHO. If you really want that much ramp up - rather use 1-2 clics of HSC instead.


reducing main chamber size due to travel change is compensated with higher initial pressure, at least that's what the table from Manitou shows. The factor in psi table from Manitou is pretty consistent across travel and weight and is always between 26-32 psi difference. Anyway I did the hard work again today and ended with 160lbs/150mm 39/63 and some damping to it felt quite ok


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Has anyone tinkered with the compression circuit? Especially the Low Speed Part.
After optimizing the friction of the air spring even closed lsc is to less.
Is the needle to thin or to far away from the hole.


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

LSC depends on HSC. So if LSC closed is too little, you need to add HSC (or take it apart maybe)


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Symion said:


> Has anyone tinkered with the compression circuit? Especially the Low Speed Part.
> After optimizing the friction of the air spring even closed lsc is to less.
> Is the needle to thin or to far away from the hole.


What have you done to "optimize the friction of the air spring"?


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Already closed hsc, but the effect is quite subtile.

Optimized sealpreload with a lathe.
Polished inner surface of the air Chambers.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

redundant suggestion.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Symion said:


> Already closed hsc, but the effect is quite subtile.
> 
> Optimized sealpreload with a lathe.
> Polished inner surface of the air Chambers.


What made you want to do this?

Polished surfaces can have higher frictional coefficients, in some cases.

When you say that you optimized seal preload, are you saying that you cut the seal groove deeper? What made you decide it was not optimal?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I actually just ordered a Mezzer today. Very excited to ride with it!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> What made you want to do this?
> 
> Polished surfaces can have higher frictional coefficients, in some cases.
> 
> ...


[SUP][/SUP]

Next to other options as he is a Tuner himself I suppose it comes down to tolerances. Manitou as well as most other mtb producers have far higher tolerances to production series than the car sector. This of course will make some moving parts, move harder. We will see.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> [SUP][/SUP]
> 
> Next to other options as he is a Tuner himself I suppose it comes down to tolerances. Manitou as well as most other mtb producers have far higher tolerances to production series than the car sector. This of course will make some moving parts, move harder. We will see.


It's more about reliability. You need a little extra seal preload past ideal conditions to account for shrinkage with cold temperature and seal wear.

Without this you'll burp air pressure from one chamber to another in cold conditions and have a fork/shock that doesn't get as much life from it's seals before they leak and get stuck down.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Has anybody tried to put/fit in a SKF green low friction seal into a Mezzer-- ?
it seems they are made in a 37 ID size-- not sure of OD..

https://mrpmotorsports.com/skf-seal-kit-oil-dust-showa-37/


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

locominute said:


> Has anybody tried to put/fit in a SKF green low friction seal into a Mezzer-- ?
> it seems they are made in a 37 ID size-- not sure of OD..
> 
> https://mrpmotorsports.com/skf-seal-kit-oil-dust-showa-37/


Mezzer seal OD is about 47mm: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-37-mm-fork-seal-kit-oe.html

Those seals are a two piece (seperate oil seal and dust wiper) which will have more stiction than a single. I don't think you'll gain anything in compound or friction between the factory SKF and the green SKF here as Manitou have been pushing hard to reduce friction in everything for years now.

Burnishing the bushings to oversize will give you less friction with a thicker oil film (but also less stiffness).


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

Most places in the US seem to have gone back up to $950 on the price, anyone see a place in the US with either a sale price or other way to get these down? I got mine for $775 but have a friend who wants one now...


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

backinmysaddle said:


> I got mine for $775 but have a friend who wants one now...


775 is basically wholesale price.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Dirt Merchant is $820 last I looked yesterday, not sure if that is shipped. I just picked up a new one (27.5) on PB for $770 shipped.

Actionsports.de has them for 700 euros which is about the same in USD plus shipping.

1 in stock at Bike24.com for 672 euros plus shipping to the US.

Both 27.5 and 29 at each it looks like.

I'm replacing a Fox 36 with ACS-3 GRIP2 which is good but heavy as you would expect.

Options I considered:


Selva - have one, excellent fork, hard to find for the same money as the other options
DVO Onyx - I have had a Diamond which was great but I have been there, want to try something new/different


I can get a Selva from Europe for less but they are 170/180mm and that might make pedaling my Insurgent uphill a pain.

160mm Selva are more than a Mezzer or Onyx and since I have a Selva that didn't make a ton of sense to me although it was tempting.

The NSMB.com reviews sold me as they are really thorough and more considered than some other sites in my experience when it comes to reviews.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

scottzg said:


> 775 is basically wholesale price.


$750 here back about 6 weeks ago. Absolute steal given this fork's capabilities

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How do you guys know the lyrik has more stinction than mezzer? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Picard said:


> How do you guys know the lyrik has more stinction than mezzer?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


I've owned both. Stock, to have the Lyrik have the same small bump sensitivity, I had to run pressures that made it sloppy and prone to brake dive...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

silentG said:


> I'm replacing a Fox 36 with ACS-3 GRIP2 which is good but heavy as you would expect.
> 
> Options I considered:
> 
> ...


I'll be really interested to hear what you think. The Selva looks rad, and the 36 Coil is a known winner. About the only other fork I'd love to see compared against the Mezzer is the new Ohlins M.2 which is the only fork on the market that can swap between air and coil with no permanent damage.


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I can't find the mezzer on sale at 44 mm offset online. I only see 51mm offset size.

Where do you find 44mm offset? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2783857/


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

there is no 29" 44mm. You have to look for 46mm.


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

locominute said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2783857/


Thank you very much for the link

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## backinmysaddle (Jul 27, 2011)

My 29er Mezzer just arrived from Dirt Merchant today. I have a 2016 Pike on my existing ride, and holy crap is the Mezzer an amazing piece of equipment in comparison. It doesnt seem much heavier but really seems so much more substantial. Call me impressed. I should also say that I have been in this sport since virtually the beginning. I mean, the days where there were no suspension forks at all. When I put this up in my mind against the original RockShox we bought in 1990 (?), the RS-1 I believe, holy crap has this tech come a long way!!!

Just got a note from GG that my Gnarvana is done with painting and just needs the decals and suspension linkage before it's on its way to me. Cannot wait to give this fork a few rides!


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

how do you guys setup this fork LSC and HSC ?
how do you set up this IRT ?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Picard said:


> how do you guys setup this fork LSC and HSC ?
> how do you set up this IRT ?


IRT gets filled first. I weigh 184lb. I actually use 80 in the IRT. Then the bottom of leg I fill to 53 (I like it a little on more supple side).
I found the stock recommendation card to be very close to ideal for HSC/LSC and rebound. I use 5 clicks rebound (from closed-turning counter clockwise) , 2 HSC and 5 LSC from Max (turning counter clockwise).
My local trails are a mixed bag of chunky roots tech stuff with some real tight rocky stuff, and some flowy jump lines mixed in. I used to have all sorts of arm pump after a single lap thru the 5 mile trail system. Have done 5 laps in the last 2 days and my arms feel great. This fork is so different from anything I've ridden (and at one point, I had a Lyrik Ultimate with an additional 600 bucks dumped into HC97 and Smashpot and it still wasn't as good as this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

I have one of the early forks, it was sent back the day I got it with the HSC/LSC knobs had something wrong and the bladder was leaking. After getting it back its worked very well, super happy with the performance. Today I went to service the lowers and found both my lower bump rubbers loose. So today sent off a letter to Hayes. Lets see what becomes of this. Hope they could send out replacement lowers but doubtful it can be that easy. I am hoping to ask them how to soften up the compression in order to be able to use the IRT to its full potential. 

Round Two begins now


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Th3Bill said:


> IRT gets filled first. I weigh 184lb. I actually use 80 in the IRT. Then the bottom of leg I fill to 53 (I like it a little on more supple side).
> I found the stock recommendation card to be very close to ideal for HSC/LSC and rebound. I use 5 clicks rebound (from closed-turning counter clockwise) , 2 HSC and 5 LSC from Max (turning counter clockwise).
> My local trails are a mixed bag of chunky roots tech stuff with some real tight rocky stuff, and some flowy jump lines mixed in. I used to have all sorts of arm pump after a single lap thru the 5 mile trail system. Have done 5 laps in the last 2 days and my arms feel great. This fork is so different from anything I've ridden (and at one point, I had a Lyrik Ultimate with an additional 600 bucks dumped into HC97 and Smashpot and it still wasn't as good as this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


why did you choose 80 PS for IRT? is there formula for the IRT pressue?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Picard said:


> why did you choose 80 PS for IRT? is there formula for the IRT pressue?


https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ents/360056778633/Mezzer_Pro_Set-up_Guide.pdf

This has a basic setup guide. I started there and kinda played around with it a little bit. For the most part, i didn't need much different from what Manitou had recommended

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

Just got my Mezzer 29" 160mm Fork from Dirt Merchant. What a beauty. Just out of curiosity, how much exposed stanchion do you guys have. I have about 170mm on my 160mm fork. Thanks,


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Alpenglow said:


> Just got my Mezzer 29" 160mm Fork from Dirt Merchant. What a beauty. Just out of curiosity, how much exposed stanchion do you guys have. I have about 170mm on my 160mm fork. Thanks,


186mm showing on mine. I left it stock 180mm travel

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

185 at 180. Never managed to get into those last 5mm. So used real 180 but not 185...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

extremecarver said:


> 185 at 180. Never managed to get into those last 5mm. So used real 180 but not 185...


Exposed stanchion doesn't always equal available travel.

I like to air my fork all the way down, fully compress and put a piece of labor maker tape against the o-ring. This gives you an accurate bottom out reference, likely showing where the elastomer bump stop starts.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> IRT gets filled first. I weigh 184lb. I actually use 80 in the IRT. Then the bottom of leg I fill to 53 (I like it a little on more supple side).
> I found the stock recommendation card to be very close to ideal for HSC/LSC and rebound. I use 5 clicks rebound (from closed-turning counter clockwise) , 2 HSC and 5 LSC from Max (turning counter clockwise).
> My local trails are a mixed bag of chunky roots tech stuff with some real tight rocky stuff, and some flowy jump lines mixed in. I used to have all sorts of arm pump after a single lap thru the 5 mile trail system. Have done 5 laps in the last 2 days and my arms feel great. This fork is so different from anything I've ridden (and at one point, I had a Lyrik Ultimate with an additional 600 bucks dumped into HC97 and Smashpot and it still wasn't as good as this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info.

After really trying to make a Pike RCT3 work well, I abandoned it and order a Mezzer. The Mara Pro upgrade from a RS SDS+ felt like you describe, so I am excited for the Mezzer.

Of course UPS delayed my shipment, so I am still waiting impatiently.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

New fork incoming, maybe a mattoc with mezzer style damper? If so, i expect a fork in the 1800g range for Trail riding, that would be great for my hightower!


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

looks more like a Mezzer Comp? Maybe Manitou decided the casting is holding up well enough now - so they can start pushing a cheaper version with IVA and less advanced damping?


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Exposed stanchion doesn't equal available travel.


Mine is lowered to 150, but i've bottomed it out a couple times.

IMO your tape will push dirt past the seals if you hit something hard enough.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> Mine is lowered to 150, but i've bottomed it out a couple times.
> 
> IMO your tape will push dirt past the seals if you hit something hard enough.


Tape won't push anything past the seals, if it is at the bottom out point.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davideb87 said:


> New fork incoming, maybe a mattoc with mezzer style damper? If so, i expect a fork in the 1800g range for Trail riding, that would be great for my hightower!


Liking the gloss finish.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> New fork incoming, maybe a mattoc with mezzer style damper? If so, i expect a fork in the 1800g range for Trail riding, that would be great for my hightower!


There's some cool stuff coming. I can't give away any secrets but I can tell you that this silly virus has really screwed up everyones release schedule.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Tape won't push anything past the seals, if it is at the bottom out point.


...Which is like 1mm below the crown, at least on my fork.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> ...Which is like 1mm below the crown, at least on my fork.


Was it really necessary to clarify that if your seal / o-ring essentially touch the crown at bottom out, that you don't need to add a piece of tape to mark the bottom out point?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ice-Bear (Nov 9, 2019)

davideb87 said:


> New fork incoming, maybe a mattoc with mezzer style damper? If so, i expect a fork in the 1800g range for Trail riding, that would be great for my hightower!


Looks like a Mezzer Jr aka the new Mattoc. Since they got the Mezzer to hit 2,000 grams, I would expect this to max out at 130mm travel (since Mezzer goes to 140mm) and weigh about 1,700g.(29er fox 34 weighs 1790 and 34 stepcast is 1,623) And if it performs like my Mezzer, I will have a 34 step cast for sale.


----------



## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

Any lightweights out there who want to share their experience with the Mezzer? I’m sub-140 lbs and often find the stock compression too firm. 

Related question: is it straightforward to get in and play around with the compression shim stack?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Was it really necessary to clarify that if your seal / o-ring essentially touch the crown at bottom out, that you don't need to add a piece of tape to mark the bottom out point?


Well you seemed to be confused where the fork bottoms out. Some older manitou forks had exposed stanchion when they bottomed out. If you push dirt in between the wipers it does a lot of damage surprisingly quickly, and it's not obvious that it happened. Was just trying to save you some grief.

Regardless, nobody should be wrapping tape on mezzer stanchions. Super dumb. There's a o-ring for that already. Go ahead and do something stupid if you feel comfortable with it, but don't suggest bad ideas to randos on the internet.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> Well you seemed to be confused where the fork bottoms out. Some older manitou forks had exposed stanchion when they bottomed out. If you push dirt in between the wipers it does a lot of damage surprisingly quickly, and it's not obvious that it happened. Was just trying to save you some grief.
> 
> Regardless, nobody should be wrapping tape on mezzer stanchions. Super dumb. There's a o-ring for that already. Go ahead and do something stupid if you feel comfortable with it, but don't suggest bad ideas to randos on the internet.


I seemed confused?

I stated that the amount of exposed stanchion doesn't always represent useable travel. I suggested airing the fork down and fully compressing it to see where the bottom out point is, and adding a tape marker if all the stanchion isn't used.

Go ahead and tell us what is "super dumb" about that. I'll wait.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Ice-Bear said:


> Looks like a Mezzer Jr aka the new Mattoc. Since they got the Mezzer to hit 2,000 grams, I would expect this to max out at 130mm travel (since Mezzer goes to 140mm) and weigh about 1,700g.(29er fox 34 weighs 1790 and 34 stepcast is 1,623) And if it performs like my Mezzer, I will have a 34 step cast for sale.


It depends on the market they want to address. I reckon if the tune goes light enough (or there would be a light tune variant) for light/female riders (<70kg.) a 35mm stanchioned 160/27,5 160/29 could still be designed stiff enough for trail/ light all-mountain use. If they up the stanchions you get some advantages in stiffness, negative chamber size and marketing. For that purpose 1.800-1.850gr. Would still be fine.

2.000gr. 37mm 27.5 150-180mm/29 140-180mm: all-mountain - freeride and heavy riders.

1.850gr. 35mm 27.5 130-160mm/ 29 120-160mm: trail - light all-mountain (Longest versions only for light riders, optionally with light tune).

1.700 gr. 33mm 27.5 110-140mm/ 29 110-140mm: XC - trail. (Longest versions only for light riders, optionally with light tune).

Heavy riders on the bigger stanchions, lighter riders one step down on a lighter tune.

Or spelled out:

*2.000gr. 37mm 27.5 150-180mm/29 140-180mm: all-mountain - freeride and heavy riders.*

*1.850gr. 35mm: trail - all-mountain (Longest versions only for light riders with light tune).*
Normal tune: 27.5 130-150mm/ 29 120-150mm
Light tune: 27.5 130-160mm/ 29 120-160mm
*
1.700 gr. 33mm: XC - trail (Longest versions only for light riders with light tune).*
Normal tune: 27.5 110-130mm/ 29 100-130mm
Light tune: 27.5 110-140mm/ 29 100-140mm

Of course mechanically, a normal tune would be able to be spaced to the full length, but it would not be offered to OEM nor be listed on the Manitou site in order to prevent a too heavy rider getting on too noodly a fork.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> I seemed confused?
> 
> I stated that the amount of exposed stanchion doesn't always represent useable travel. I suggested airing the fork down and fully compressing it to see where the bottom out point is, and adding a tape marker if all the stanchion isn't used.
> 
> Go ahead and tell us what is "super dumb" about that. I'll wait.


You said some dumb **** and now you see me as your adversary. I am not. Bad advice irks me. i want you to have the best experience. :thumbsup:


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Ice-Bear said:


> Looks like a Mezzer Jr aka the new Mattoc. Since they got the Mezzer to hit 2,000 grams, I would expect this to max out at 130mm travel (since Mezzer goes to 140mm) and weigh about 1,700g.(29er fox 34 weighs 1790 and 34 stepcast is 1,623) And if it performs like my Mezzer, I will have a 34 step cast for sale.


I would really like a shorter travel mattoc in the 1700-1800g range for my hightower. I know the mezzer can be lowered to 140 mm, but seems like too much.


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

@CCS86
@Dougal

Original sealpreload is on the upper end for simple orings. The xring on the main piston seals well with less preload, specially in pneumatic applications.
Most seal manufacturer give upper and lower boundaries for hydraulic applications which demand more preload for propper sealing.
Less preload means less friction and longer seal life. 
Temperature changes have to be considered, but are quit slow in fork application. Inner surface of the uppers is shrinking in lower temperatures too.

Polishing can be to much and therefore be a cause for higher friction. You have to find the right balance of the surface, which can indeed be made better on todays forks.
Also it is already much better then some years ago.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> You said some dumb **** and now you see me as your adversary. I am not. Bad advice irks me. i want you to have the best experience.


No answer. Just as I expected.

You have quite the imagination. I consider you my "adversary"? Hahaha. That's cute. You should be able to defend a claim you make before promoting yourself to that position.

Do you really think it makes you look knowledgeable to call someone out, claiming something is "dumb ****", yet not be able to qualify that in any way?

:Edit:. Happy for a moderator to delete all this crap.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Come on folks, take it outside. I expect a long thread anyway, no need to fill it with the usual internet dribble.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

I really feel Manitou/Hayes should organise their fork page a bit more: https://hayesbicycle.com/collections/forks/activity_xc

I see 21 forks randomly splashed onto their website without categorizing. Sure there's the filters on the left, but it should be clear on first glance without applying filters and even if you click on the XC filter for instance you still see an unclear collection of forks without being obvious what a customer should choose when.

Providing customers with sufficient and clear information is almost free additional sales. Through the customer buying process there should always be as little obstacles as possible and never more than unavoidable: https://www.google.com/search?q=buy...AoQBA&biw=2144&bih=1079#imgrc=5RCtOuYFrAADLM:

At least they have the engineering down that's most importance to us existing customers.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Man, this thing is a nice piece of kit!

Out of the box, it has far less friction than my well broken it Pike, with burnished bushings.

Even with the uncut steerer, it is lighter than the puny Recon in these photos.

A quick ride around my neighborhood without even checking the air / IRT pressures, tells me that this fork is going to perform very well. I cannot wait to dial it in and ride it in anger.









Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Can someone help me out with the maximum OD for the thin-wall 8mm socket?

I'm going to knock one out on the lathe today, but want to confirm the size to keep that wall thickness up. I saw one post showing an OD just shy of 10mm.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Can someone help me out with the maximum OD for the thin-wall 8mm socket?
> 
> I'm going to knock one out on the lathe today, but want to confirm the size to keep that wall thickness up. I saw one post showing an OD just shy of 10mm.


My Manitou tool measures 10.21mm OD and 15.20mm depth.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

CS645 said:


> My Manitou tool measures 10.21mm OD and 15.20mm depth.


Thank you!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

FYI, with the footnuts instead of threaded lowers, you really don't need the thin wall socket any more.

I just pulled the lowers tonight to set travel at 140mm. It's pretty incredible how easily the lowers come on and off, especially being brand new.

Out of curiosity, is there a real limit at 140mm? It seems like you could just keep stacking spacers on the air spring shaft.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## rsapp240 (May 29, 2020)

Anyone know how Hayes/Manitou is for support if you buy 2nd hand? I've read this whole thread and I'm sold that the Mezzer is the bee's knees, but I don't want to get one and be SOL with bushing slop, falling off bumpers, or oil ingesting issues. 

Also, has there been any official answer on what's up with the topout bumpers? That concerns me the most out of the 3 (since bushings mostly seem resolved) it sounds like they can turn sideways and wreak some havoc.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> FYI, with the footnuts instead of threaded lowers, you really don't need the thin wall socket any more.
> 
> I just pulled the powers tonight to set travel at 140mm. It's pretty incredible how easily the lowers come on and off, especially being brand new.
> 
> ...


There is no limit at 140mm. You can just keep clipping in spacers. But the air volumes may need tweaking at lower travel.



rsapp240 said:


> Anyone know how Hayes/Manitou is for support if you buy 2nd hand? I've read this whole thread and I'm sold that the Mezzer is the bee's knees, but I don't want to get one and be SOL with bushing slop, falling off bumpers, or oil ingesting issues.
> 
> Also, has there been any official answer on what's up with the topout bumpers? That concerns me the most out of the 3 (since bushings mostly seem resolved) it sounds like they can turn sideways and wreak some havoc.


Bumpers and bushings are dealt with way back. If the seller has a fork that hasn't been sorted then ask them to get it warrantied before you buy.

Original bottom-out bumpers were just soft rubber and could get bounced out of place. They can't wreak havoc though. Revision has them on a stiff base-plate so they stay down. Visually they are now gapped for expansion/contraction.
It's hard to see but the rebuild kits have the new ones: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mezzer-rebuild-kit-manitou.html


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I'm new to IRT... I understand to air it up before the main chamber, but do you need to depressurize the main before adjusting IRT?


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> I'm new to IRT... I understand to air it up before the main chamber, but do you need to depressurize the main before adjusting IRT?


I think once set, the sequence does not matter as long as IRT pressure always remains higher than main so it stays extended to it's stop


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

If you've already inflated both chambers (IRT first, then main) to more or less where you want them and you're only adjusting the IRT, then no, you don't need to depressurize the main chamber.

Basically, once you have the fork setup such that the IRT is at a higher pressure than the main, you can adjust them individually without having to depressurize the other.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Thanks guys.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Just for scottzg...

The Mezzer has a lot less exposed stanchion at bottom-out than the Mattoc, but still enough to make eyeballing not very accurate (~7mm). A little piece of label tape makes it very clear.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

First ride in on the Mezzer and this thing is a weapon.

I was running over all sorts of roots and rocks I would normally avoid, just to see what they felt like. Its ability to eat up and iron out smaller bumps, while still being supportive is stellar. Also, it does a great job eating these bumps with the bike leaned over, where my Pike would have lost traction entirely.

I kept thinking "now THIS is what a fork should feel like" throughout the ride.

During the ride, I switched bikes briefly with my friend (Giant Trance / Fox 34) and while his fork is by no means harsh, it just felt more like a toy. The Mezzer feels like a Cadillac tank.

Question: the HBO is in the damper, yes? When I had the fork aired down to mark bottom of stroke, I really had a hard time feeling any extra damping from the HBO.










Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

What's the point of the tape? HBO will make it hard to get right to the bottom anyway.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mudguard said:


> What's the point of the tape? HBO will make it hard to get right to the bottom anyway.


The tape is a visual reference of where the actual end of stroke is. HBO is meant to dissipate energy near the bottom. It doesn't make it impossible to bottom out. Knowing where bottom out is, and how close you came to it, is still valuable information.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> The tape is a visual reference of where the actual end of stroke is. HBO is meant to dissipate energy near the bottom. It doesn't make it impossible to bottom out. Knowing where bottom out is, and how close you came to it, is still valuable information.


Surely that's what the o-ring is for. From memory isn't the HBO speed sensitive? So if you have no air in the fork you maybe able to bottom it as the speed is slow, but with a genuine high speed, hit the hydraulics will slow it down.

I usually know where the bottom is even without the o-ring. It's when I've done something rather stupid and walked away from it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mudguard said:


> Surely that's what the o-ring is for. From memory isn't the HBO speed sensitive? So if you have no air in the fork you maybe able to bottom it as the speed is slow, but with a genuine high speed, hit the hydraulics will slow it down.
> 
> I usually know where the bottom is even without the o-ring. It's when I've done something rather stupid and walked away from it.


Yes, the o-ring is for tracking the maximum stroke since you last reset it. But you still need a visual reference of where bottom out is. Some forks will push the o-ring right up against the crown. Great, that is your reference. But, many forks, Mezzer included, do not stroke the o-ring all the crown. That's why I make a tape mark. When the top of my o-ring hits the bottom of my tape, it is bottomed.

For HBO I'm sure there is a velocity dependence. There always is for fluid damping. I gave it some pretty sharp hits and still didn't feel much. That is obviously not true 'high speed' fork motion, but you should definitely not be at end of stroke with fork velocity that high.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> Yes, the o-ring is for tracking the maximum stroke since you last reset it. But you still need a visual reference of where bottom out is. Some forks will push the o-ring right up against the crown. Great, that is your reference. But, many forks, Mezzer included, do not stroke the o-ring all the crown. That's why I make a tape mark. When the top of my o-ring hits the bottom of my tape, it is bottomed.
> 
> For HBO I'm sure there is a velocity dependence. There always is for fluid damping. I gave it some pretty sharp hits and still didn't feel much. That is obviously not true 'high speed' fork motion, but you should definitely not be at end of stroke with fork velocity that high.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


The HBO on the Mezzer imo is quite weak compared to the one in the Smashpot. I've questioned a few times whether or not it actually does anything in use in the Mezzer because I've bottomed quite a few times and it doesn't feel like it does much.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

springs said:


> The HBO on the Mezzer imo is quite weak compared to the one in the Smashpot. I've questioned a few times whether or not it actually does anything in use in the Mezzer because I've bottomed quite a few times and it doesn't feel like it does much.


I have no idea what the HBO assembly looks like. I wonder if it could be revalved for increased action?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Mounted up new Mezzer on Evil Insurgent, first ride tomorrow morning.

Travel changed to 160mm which was trivially easy.

Park Freehub 5.2 was the only tool needed beyond some hex keys and a 14mm wrench. 

I work on my own forks and have had Manitou forks before (Minute, Mattoc) and they are pretty straightforward to work on so no real surprises there.

Checked grease on the IRT - gobs of Slickoleum including a heavy amount in the bottom of the IRT chamber, most likely from the end of the IRT piston.

Checked seals - Slickoleum on the inside lip of both seals

Lower oil - maybe 10ml combined from both legs, if I'm being generous. Added 20ml of WPL 20wt to each leg per the service manual.

Running 84 PSI in the IRT and 54 PSI in the lower Dorado chamber. 

Starting point is based on my weight (180 lbs), travel (160mm), and feel in the garage as the sticker on the fork leg was 90/59 PSI to start.

Weight of fork after steerer cut to 175mm is 2040g (was 2070g out of the box). 

Fox 36 ACS-3 160mm is over 2300g with a Wolftooth axle on it which is a fair amount lighter than the stock Fox axle.

Rebound, LSC, and HSC are all on the low end (so say Rebound at 4 clicks) of the enduro scale from the setup guide as a starting point.

Pairing with an 11-6 that is already on my Insurgent tomorrow morning, I have a Float X2 that will be going on here shortly but it needs a rebuild first.

What I'm looking to evaluate...

My other ride is a Mojo HD 4 with a Selva S (solo air spring) with green CTS module, and X2. 

That combo is my benchmark as it works really well with the Mojo, the terrain here in Arizona, etc.

I have a conversion kit for the Selva to turn it in to a Selva R (dual air spring) and it will be interesting to see both how that changes the Selva and also how it matches up with the Mezzer.

I'm also curious as to how the Mezzer pairs with a coil vs something like the Float X2 on the Insurgent.

Before the 36 coil fork I had a DVO Diamond on this bike while and it is a great fork once I went to the 11-6 on the rear it felt like the Diamond was jittery at times on really rough or fast and rough trails.

It made the bike feel a bit unbalanced and I couldn't get the Diamond quite dialed in with that combo.

I haven't used an X2 on the Insurgent before so I'm not sure how I will or won't like it but that would be the comparison for bike balance - coil vs air with Mezzer and then work out what I think would be the best pairing for what I like and the suspension on the Insurgent.

Anyway, will post up some ride thoughts after getting a ride or two in this weekend.


----------



## Berm VonCrashen (Nov 21, 2015)

Just got mine last night and cant wait to get these on the bike and test them out.

Though have a very odd situation, where upon opening the box there was a lot of oil inside the box and all over the stanchions. Either way will require a clean, pull apart and check where the oil come from.

As this is my first time with Manitou, any pointers where to check? I was going to start with the check oil in the lowers when reducing the travel to 170mm. 

Though could this be from over pressurisation from the flight? Or potential fail of something more catastrophic? Not the best start but I am always positive until riding them. 

Never pulled apart forks yet, from the manual most looks straight forward, but missing some of the tools for a full "service" if i went that way. hence why looking at the reduce travel option first.

However...

Will oil on other items be an issue to seals, IRT or anything else? 

Self answering is it probably best to ship off for a service with someone with tools and a steady hand


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> I have no idea what the HBO assembly looks like. I wonder if it could be revalved for increased action?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I can't say for the Mezzer, but in the Mattoc HBO is a tube on the damper side with holes in it. The faster the speed the more resistance there will for the oil to go through. I don't know how many holes it has, but making a new tube with less holes would do the trick I suppose. That said, Manitou has plenty of experience with HBO so I think they chose the current resistance after quite some testing (and prolly aiming after the average to heavier rider).

Also the HBO is of course designed to work along side a properly set air spring ramp up.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Berm VonCrashen said:


> Just got mine last night and cant wait to get these on the bike and test them out.
> 
> Though have a very odd situation, where upon opening the box there was a lot of oil inside the box and all over the stanchions. Either way will require a clean, pull apart and check where the oil come from.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about the oil damaging anything. You could store that whole fork submerged in oil and it would love you for it.

It most likely came from the lower leg bath oil. It doesn't take a ton of oil to give the appearance of a giant mess. Just drain and refill the lowers to spec when you change travel and you should be good.



CS645 said:


> I can't say for the Mezzer, but in the Mattoc HBO is a tube on the damper side with holes in it. The faster the speed the more resistance there will for the oil to go through. I don't know how many holes it has, but making a new tube with less holes would do the trick I suppose. That said, Manitou has plenty of experience with HBO so I think they chose the current resistance after quite some testing (and prolly aiming after the average to heavier rider).
> 
> Also the HBO is of course designed to work along side a properly set air spring ramp up.


It's totally true that looking at a single component of a system, in isolation, doesn't tell you the whole story.

It's like 90* in my garage, and even hotter out on the trails. That definitely doesn't increase damping.

Spring rate certainly gets pretty steep near end of stroke, so maybe if HBO was too strong, you would be unable to use full travel, and it just needs a subtle effect. I just thought I would be able to feel/hear it, since I have a good "feel" for damping effect.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

To correct myself, to increase the ramp up it would probably smarter to slightly reduce the size of the holes rather than reduce their number. Than you still have a ramp up effect with the same number of stages, just with more resistance. If you on the other hand reduce the number of holes, the ramp effect would become more course.

This is just from thinking about it, I'm not an expert.

Here is a photo from the shockcraft site (think of both the expert and pro Mattoc's):

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide/hydraulic-bottom-out


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Running a thicker oil could help. LSC seems subtle on this fork and probably could work well with a viscosity bump... Assuming this didn't disrupt the HSC range.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> Running a thicker oil could help. LSC seems subtle on this fork and probably could work well with a viscosity bump... Assuming this didn't disrupt the HSC range.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Agreed, the LSC is VERY subtle. Cycling the damper by hand there is very little difference between fully closed and fully open. The HSC seems to have much more of an effect on LSC when cycling the damper by hand.

Has anyone had the Mezzer damper on a dyno? Jonno?


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

So, if I want to get a Mezzer and want to make sure that's the last revision with all the kinks ironed out, I should check with the seller that it has the new lowers with the bleed ports, or is there something more recent?
Is there anything that's still causing problems, like oil ingestion?
Thanks!


----------



## upsha (Jun 1, 2017)

springs said:


> Agreed, the LSC is VERY subtle. Cycling the damper by hand there is very little difference between fully closed and fully open. The HSC seems to have much more of an effect on LSC when cycling the damper by hand.
> 
> Has anyone had the Mezzer damper on a dyno? Jonno?


In my very limited understanding, MC^2 HSC works through preloading the shim. LSC has almost no effect when HSC is wide open, and huge effect when HSC closed. This is also why the HSC gets harder to turn toward closed.

I picture a linear shim that could moves the starting force up by closing HSC, and LSC is a tunable bypass that intercepts the shim curve with different quadratic curves. The open HSC has almost no preload and makes LSC no effect.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

^ That was a really good explanation. Lsc is supposed to feel like nothing when hsc is wide open. That really is correct function, but we're so used to poorly tuned high preload forks where the lsc knob always makes a difference, but always spikes too.

It seems like the mc2 needs to lean towards closing off those knobs to feel plush and controlled. It's really a good thing, it just feels unintuitive sometimes.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That's an interesting assessment, since Dougal was running LSC closed and HSC open; at least a while back.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Hey all - I found myself referencing others mezzer setups in this thread and thought that a single database may be beneficial. I went back a few pages and inserted the setup notes that I could find. Feel free to add/edit yours if you find useful. Should be able to edit anonymously without logging into google account.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370

Seems like the average is to run ~ 10psi less than the Mezzer User guide recommends in both Hi and Lo chambers for the small sample size that I have inputted.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jcmonty said:


> Hey all - I found myself referencing others mezzer setups in this thread and thought that a single database may be beneficial. I went back a few pages and inserted the setup notes that I could find. Feel free to add/edit yours if you find useful. Should be able to edit anonymously without logging into google account.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370
> 
> Seems like the average is to run ~ 10psi less than the Mezzer User guide recommends in both Hi and Lo chambers for the small sample size that I have inputted.


Thanks for taking the initiative!

I was getting some really weird results from the weight : pressure calculator, so I dug into it. After I graphed the guide values you entered, I noticed there was a typo in the 140mm travel column for main pressure. I fixed that, which improved things. But, the values were still off a bit. Looking more closely, it was just because of the wonky way that "forecast" works, and the fact that the data is non-linear. You would think that modern software could take a data range and lookup exact values when they exist, then linearly interpolate between values, but of course they can't (easily). I wrote some fancy Excel sheets for tuning modern engines, where I created this functionality. Sooo, I decided to port it over to Sheets, and managed to get it working.

I left your original calculations there, and added mine below. You'll see that sometimes they are very close, and other times they differ an appreciable amount. My formula only fails with an exact weight of 120 lbs, but I think we can work around that.

Feel free to delete out the line chart if you don't want it. Annoying that you can't individually name each series, but it's pretty easy to figure out which is which, and kind of interesting how some of the curves are very linear and others wander a bit.

I made the hi/lo ratio a calculation too.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

I'm 88kg RTR and currently running 170mm travel with 70psi in the IRT and 55psi in the main. REB 6 LSC 6 HSC 3 or 4 depending on track (from fully closed). Bike is a large Banshee Titan.

On my XL Levo I'm running 160mm travel and 95psi IRT and 55psi main.REB 5 LSC 7 HSC 3. In my notes I had intended to try 80/60psi next.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Thanks for deep-diving! Yeah - the "forecast" function is semi-decent at best. I too had an old "interpolate" function for excel that I used in my old engineering job quite frequently, but it didn't seem to port to Sheets well, and this was more of a quick exercise for me. 

Thanks for finding that error. I copied from the guide directly, but had to remove some cell data making it non-numeric. Obviously did one a bit too quickly.

The Hi/Lo ratio was a simple calc as well, but not sure why that did copy over. 

Again - thanks for the edits! Hopefully, this data is useful in some format. Data is always fun regardless


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Two rides on the Mezzer, added an entry to the Google Docs spreadsheet with my setup.

Listed below as well:

185 lb rider on Evil Insurgent in Arizona central highlands
Michelin Wild Enduro F/R 20/22 PSI F/R
One ride with Push 11-6, one with Fox Float X2

160mm travel Mezzer
IRT at 85 psi
Dorado/lower at 54 psi
Rebound 4 from full open
LSC 3 from full open
HSC 2 from full open
Dunno about sag, went with feel

Ran two rides on a series of trails that I have ridden a bunch and the trails have a good variety of stuff - rocky ledges, baby head gardens, climbs and descents, twisty turns, off camber stuff, different soil types, you name it...typical Arizona trails, big rocks, little rocks, rocks on top of rocks.

A couple of things I noticed:


Very composed fork, rides high in travel
Stiffness is definitely tangible - cornering, holdings lines, and lack of deflection
Very supple over small stuff
Feels firmly damped at first but scales really well, see below
 Confidence inspiring ride as a result of all of these traits

I had some concern before I rode as I have seen a couple of references about the MC2 damper being too firm.

That could be true but I noticed that the fork stiffness contributes to that sense and one could always goof around with different oil combinations in the damper or see what Manitou has on tap to adjust the damper.

From what I have experienced so far pushing the Mezzer doesn't result in a wooden and harsh ride but rather the fork tends to feel the same if you are bopping along over small stuff as it does if you are pounding down a rock chute at high speed.

I started running all sorts of wonky lines starting on Friday to see if I could find some limits in behavior for the Mezzer and I was laughing my ass off at various points because I was just popping up and over rocks, blasting through stuff, and doing whatever the heck I felt like doing on my bike.

Very much a IDGAF mode on this fork.

I'm working out a shock for my Insurgent so I went ahead and rode one ride with a tuned 11-6 and one ride with Float X2.

For the Float I used the same settings I use on my Mojo HD 4 so the settings aren't fine tuned and the shock needs a rebuild.

No real difference for the Mezzer although paired with the coil it felt like all things were possible.

With the Float I could feel points where the Float wasn't quite up to snuff with the Mezzer as a pairing but that could be the need to rebuild and/or not having the Float totally dialed in or maybe Insurgent + coil shock + Mezzer = true love, a couple of kids in the future, who knows.

I was not able to find a situation where the Mezzer was limiting me or where I felt like the Mezzer was deflecting off or rocks and causing me to stop and reset a section of trail.

Last 3 forks I have ridden before the Mezzer for reference.

DVO Diamond
Mezzer is stiffer, similar feel to OTT on small stuff, the stiffness and composure of the Mezzer is a difference maker here in my opinion

Fox 36 with ACS-3 coil conversion kit
Mezzer is lighter, stiffer, and equal in terms of being supple.

ACS-3 has a bottom out/ramp up in the last 1/3 of travel so it isn't a straight linear coil.

I expected more from the Grip2 damper to be honest. It gets lots of hype around the Internet and while it was good it wasn't a life changing experience.

Mezzer gets the nod here by weight, composure/stiffness, and being flexible as an air sprung fork with spring rates.

Intangible - the Mezzer just rides better to me which I can't put a finger on for what exactly it is that makes me say that it just feels more right than the 36.

Formula Selva
The ride is pretty similar between a Selva and Mezzer. The Mezzer benefits from that stiffness thing but the Selva isn't a wet noodle as a fork by any means.

No rides on a Selva R yet but right now I would say these two forks are very comparable with the Mezzer being able to run up to 180mm while the Selva I have is topped out at 160mm.

Zero regrets pulling the trigger on a Mezzer.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Nice review! I had an insurgent for a while.. makes me wonder how it would have done with this fork.


Any particular reason you are going from the 11-6 to x2? I am waiting on a ext storia atm, coming from a DPS that is definitely under gunned.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Weight mostly. 

That sounds very weight weenie when I say it out loud.

I tend to accumulate stress in my neck, back, and shoulders from my job which means that pushing more weight on my bike tends to make that all feel worse when I'm not on my bike.

Shaving off 3/4 of a pound on the shock and another 3/4 of a pound going to a Mezzer makes a yuge difference in pushing the Insurgent around and getting that mamba jamba to the top of ye olde hill is where the payoff happens on that bike and man I love me some Insurgent downward flow.

I don't use the climb valve on my 11-6 so I have an extra shock valve setup that isn't needed.

I have an X2 on my Mojo and really like it so it is the devil I know as far as testing goes.

Having said that, when it is quiet, the voices in my head are telling me that a Storia Lok is only 100g more than an X2 for sweet sweet coil goodness.

I'm leaning toward 'eff it' and a Storia right now...test it on my Mojo and maybe go crazy and coil up that sucka as well.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

jcmonty said:


> Hey all - I found myself referencing others mezzer setups in this thread and thought that a single database may be beneficial. I went back a few pages and inserted the setup notes that I could find. Feel free to add/edit yours if you find useful. Should be able to edit anonymously without logging into google account.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370
> 
> Seems like the average is to run ~ 10psi less than the Mezzer User guide recommends in both Hi and Lo chambers for the small sample size that I have inputted.


thank you very much for setting this up!


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Have a question about settings. I am 195lbs on 2020 enduro. 180mm Been riding on some mellower trails w/ jumps, drops and been really happy. Awesome small bump compliance. Good support w landings/ single big hits. Wasn’t really sweating travel. Today went out on much steeper faster stuff. Big rocks/roots. Multiple big hits etc. Would’ve thought I would have used all the travel but had about 50mm unused. Using all of rear travel. All settings from open

Settings: 
IRT: 80
Dorado: 53
HSC: 1
LSC: 4
Rebound: 5 from full open

So, if I wanted to dial the fork to use full travel would I keep dropping psi out of the IRT In 5psi increments until I hit full travel? ( and speed up rebound?).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

upsha said:


> In my very limited understanding, MC^2 HSC works through preloading the shim. LSC has almost no effect when HSC is wide open, and huge effect when HSC closed. This is also why the HSC gets harder to turn toward closed.
> 
> I picture a linear shim that could moves the starting force up by closing HSC, and LSC is a tunable bypass that intercepts the shim curve with different quadratic curves. The open HSC has almost no preload and makes LSC no effect.





One Pivot said:


> ^ That was a really good explanation. Lsc is supposed to feel like nothing when hsc is wide open. That really is correct function, but we're so used to poorly tuned high preload forks where the lsc knob always makes a difference, but always spikes too.
> 
> It seems like the mc2 needs to lean towards closing off those knobs to feel plush and controlled. It's really a good thing, it just feels unintuitive sometimes.


The Mezzer LSC circuit is a small one. About 2mm diameter. This means it works like a LSC circuit should and chokes off early to not have much impact on higher speed impacts.
This is the complete opposite to most companies who were running a huge LSC port and a stupid stiff shimmed circuit.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> The Mezzer LSC circuit is a small one. About 2mm diameter. This means it works like a LSC circuit should and chokes off early to not have much impact on higher speed impacts.
> This is the complete opposite to most companies who were running a huge LSC port and a stupid stiff shimmed circuit.


Are you still running HSC open and LSC closed?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Are you still running HSC open and LSC closed?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yep. I tune pretty much everything for me to run like that. It gives max support without exessive HSC so it can eat sharp impacts.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

springs said:


> Agreed, the LSC is VERY subtle. Cycling the damper by hand there is very little difference between fully closed and fully open. The HSC seems to have much more of an effect on LSC when cycling the damper by hand.
> 
> Has anyone had the Mezzer damper on a dyno? Jonno?


More hsc you have, the more lsc you can get. If the shim stack isn't preloaded or lighly preloaded the lsc adjuster has very little effect because oil will keep flowing through the piston.
You first need to close the piston to get the lsc adjuster to work.

It's not the hsc adjuster working at low speed, it just make the lsc adjuster work if you close hsc


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

I have to intervene here.
First the compression damping of the mezzer is to weak and nearly useless.
Second on the first two postions from open the hsc does not preload the shimstack (3x .1 Shims!). As a result the hsc ports act like a bypass and the lsc has no effect.
I checked this by disassembling the complete compression circuit.
The air spring is that good, that a lot of people think otherwise. But what they feel is only a good working air spring.

The situation is a little bit the same as with the introduction of the pike an the tokens. You were told to lower the air pressure and use tokens against bottoming out. On the parking lot everyone tought "yay so soft an responsive", but on the trails they were hanging deep in the progressive curve with aching wrists.

With the meezer there are noch aching wrists, but with the absence of working compression you loose a lot of control.


Its still my favorite and after some tweaks regarding this topic its a suberp fork.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davideb87 said:


> More hsc you have, the more lsc you can get. If the shim stack isn't preloaded or lighly preloaded the lsc adjuster has very little effect because oil will keep flowing through the piston.
> You first need to close the piston to get the lsc adjuster to work.
> 
> It's not the hsc adjuster working at low speed, it just make the lsc adjuster work if you close hsc


The LSC does very little on my fork in any of the HSC settings.


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> Just for scottzg...
> 
> The Mezzer has a lot less exposed stanchion at bottom-out than the Mattoc, but still enough to make eyeballing not very accurate (~7mm). A little piece of label tape makes it very clear.


What version of mezzer do you have? Mine is a 29er with 51mm offset. I doubt the offset matters.

Maybe the 650b version leaves some exposed stanchion? I'm open minded, but skeptical- you were way too confident in your assessment of a new fork to be taken seriously.

My inclination is to think you failed to fully empty the IRT, or your bath oil is overfilled, or you failed to compress the HBO, or something silly. Hard to believe manitou would just leave 10mm of stanchion hanging out there in 2020; it's poor optimization (and disappointing when long travel 650b implies a rider looking to maximize their stack height). But i don't have a 650b fork to check and i'm not too invested anyway.

Regardless, going OCD over 1-2mm of bottomout measurement is seriously dumb. You're better off weening yourself off that and evaluating performance using some other measure.



jcmonty said:


> Hey all - I found myself referencing others mezzer setups in this thread and thought that a single database may be beneficial. I went back a few pages and inserted the setup notes that I could find. Feel free to add/edit yours if you find useful. Should be able to edit anonymously without logging into google account.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370
> 
> Seems like the average is to run ~ 10psi less than the Mezzer User guide recommends in both Hi and Lo chambers for the small sample size that I have inputted.


Super cool! Thank you for doing this. I added my own stuff, and changed a few details to make it easier to understand. I hope you don't mind.

It's surprising to see how much variation there is among the people who have already submitted their data. I added myself, and i'm an obvious outlier for a couple reasons. Nonetheless it's interesting to see others' tunes and their reasoning so easily cross-compared.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Symion said:


> I have to intervene here.
> First the compression damping of the mezzer is to weak and nearly useless.
> Second on the first two postions from open the hsc does not preload the shimstack (3x .1 Shims!). As a result the hsc ports act like a bypass and the lsc has no effect.
> I checked this by disassembling the complete compression circuit.
> ...


Did you change anything when you reassembled the damper?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Symion said:


> I have to intervene here.
> First the compression damping of the mezzer is to weak and nearly useless.
> Second on the first two postions from open the hsc does not preload the shimstack (3x .1 Shims!). As a result the hsc ports act like a bypass and the lsc has no effect.
> I checked this by disassembling the complete compression circuit.
> ...


The Mezzer damper has more compression damping than a Grip2 or RS Charger.

Did you reassemble your damper incorrectly? Because the claim the compression damper does nothing is very strange. It does so much that I and others have reduced compression damping.

If you'd like to see what the fork is like with no damping, just drain the damper cartridge oil and take a ride.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The Mezzer damper has more compression damping than a Grip2 or RS Charger.
> 
> Did you reassemble your damper incorrectly? Because the claim the compression damper does nothing is very strange. It does so much that I and others have reduced compression damping.
> 
> If you'd like to see what the fork is like with no damping, just drain the damper cartridge oil and take a ride.


Strange, did they change something between the batches in the damping structure?

Because I too feel that the lsc damping does very few /nothing when hsc is completely opened or 1-2 ckicks from open.

But with at least 3 hsc and 2/3 to full closed lsc it freels better (rebound almost open) . I am 90 kilos and use 75/97 psi and with that damping setup above it feels good,not overdamped. But less becomes "harsher" as the travel is not controlled enough 
. 
Thus I feel the same, as it could use a well thought out stronger shimstack


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

springs said:


> The LSC does very little on my fork in any of the HSC settings.


It's not as clear as a mattoc, but i can definitely feel a difference between compression settings, especially on the trail.

It also affects the used travel on the same trail


----------



## sean44 (Dec 10, 2018)

Dougal said:


> The Mezzer damper has more compression damping than a Grip2 or RS Charger.
> 
> Did you reassemble your damper incorrectly? Because the claim the compression damper does nothing is very strange. It does so much that I and others have reduced compression damping.
> 
> If you'd like to see what the fork is like with no damping, just drain the damper cartridge oil and take a ride.


Out of interest what sort of values does the mezzer damper produce?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Strange, did they change something between the batches in the damping structure?
> 
> Because I too feel that the lsc damping does very few /nothing when hsc is completely opened or 1-2 ckicks from open.
> 
> ...


There is a reduction in compression damping in the later batches. I don't know exactly when the change happened.

The LSC does what it should. It is an adjustable 2mm bypass around a linear shim stack. If you want an LSC circuit that feels like it does a lot then you're back to a Charger 1 or FOX FIT. With large LSC bypass and a heavily preloaded stack that is terrible for bump control.

Unless you're north of 100kg and/or doing slope-style you do not want more compression damping.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> What version of mezzer do you have? Mine is a 29er with 51mm offset. I doubt the offset matters.
> 
> Maybe the 650b version leaves some exposed stanchion? I'm open minded, but skeptical- you were way too confident in your assessment of a new fork to be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


You sure love to make assumptions to justify your feelings.

This is a 29er fork with a 51mm offset.

You clearly aren't qualified to make statements like "(exposed stanchion being) poor optimization". Leave that to actual engineers, scott.

If after watching my video, showing an aired down hard bottom out, you think I am stopping on lower leg air pressure, HBO, or anything other than the bump stops, your analysis skills aren't what you think they are.

It's amusing that you consider yourself "open minded". Because you immediately **** on something outside of your narrow view. You also called me out without knowing anything about my level of experience.

I was "too confident" in my ability to determine the bottom-out point of a fork? I can't empty the IRT air chamber? Give me a break Scott. I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, with decades of mechanical experience (engine building, suspension, Superbikes, etc). But yeah, you are probably right... I shouldn't trust my ability to push an air fork to bottom of stroke and put on a sticker. Hahaha

I should "ween myself" off of using an accurate frame of reference, when visually determining how much travel I'm using? What are you talking about Scott? I would really love to hear your suggested alternative. Having a way to see if you have hit the bottom of stroke, at quick glance, with no tools, is invaluable in tuning, and far more important than measuring sag.

Just admit that you were wrong and stop wasting space.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> There is a reduction in compression damping in the later batches. I don't know exactly when the change happened.
> 
> The LSC does what it should. It is an adjustable 2mm bypass around a linear shim stack. If you want an LSC circuit that feels like it does a lot then you're back to a Charger 1 or FOX FIT. With large LSC bypass and a heavily preloaded stack that is terrible for bump control.
> 
> Unless you're north of 100kg and/or doing slope-style you do not want more compression damping.


Have you ridden a later fork to see if you feel there is still plenty of compression damping?

Any idea of what that break point is? (Serial number, date of mfg)

If you could use your contacts with Manitou to figure out exactly what changed, and when, it would definitely help everyone compare results and settings.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Dougal said:


> There is a reduction in compression damping in the later batches. I don't know exactly when the change happened.
> 
> The LSC does what it should. It is an adjustable 2mm bypass around a linear shim stack. If you want an LSC circuit that feels like it does a lot then you're back to a Charger 1 or FOX FIT. With large LSC bypass and a heavily preloaded stack that is terrible for bump control.
> 
> Unless you're north of 100kg and/or doing slope-style you do not want more compression damping.


I would be interested to know when this happened or after what serial # as well. Do you happen to know if it's something that can be modified on the forks pre-factory change without new parts? Or if it's an "upgrade" kit?

Another note - ran a steeper more DH style track yesterday. Added a click of HSC and LSC. Still impressive how composed the fork felt on the steeper, chundery sections. I could really feel the advantage of how stiff the fork felt. Definitely had the HBO saving me on a huck to flat as well. Fun stuff


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Can you backup your claim about change of compression in later batches?
The NSMB review and teardown from 09/2019 shows exactly the internals my mezzer has.
https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/

Shimstack is:
8x17.5 x.1
8x17.5 x.1
8x20x.1
HSC spring backs the faceshim up at third position from open.
The piston bores are 3 x 2.5mm and are just covered by the 20mm faceshim.

Do you know any review which does not state that the lsc has nearly no effect?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Have you ridden a later fork to see if you feel there is still plenty of compression damping?
> 
> Any idea of what that break point is? (Serial number, date of mfg)
> 
> ...


I revalved my fork early on and it's pretty close to the new tune. IMO the original tune was well suited to riders around 90kg. I'm ~70kg plus gear.

The change was simple. They removed one of the 17.5mm shims. If you have two you've got the earlier tune, if you have one you've got the later tune. Dead simple to DIY (once you've got it safely apart).



Symion said:


> Can you backup your claim about change of compression in later batches?
> The NSMB review and teardown from 09/2019 shows exactly the internals my mezzer has.
> https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/
> 
> ...


See above for tune info.

Do you know any review that knows how suspension is supposed to work?

Anyone who wants a LSC dial to feel like a lockout knob needs to go back to riding a 2015 Pike.


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

*Shimstac*

Which one do you mean

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/mezzer-compression-jpg.1070207/

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/manitou-mezzer.889689/post-16693576

Which one do you mean

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/mezzer-compression-jpg.1070207/

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/manitou-mezzer.889689/post-16693576


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I revalved my fork early on and it's pretty close to the new tune. IMO the original tune was well suited to riders around 90kg. I'm ~70kg plus gear.
> 
> The change was simple. They removed one of the 17.5mm shims. If you have two you've got the earlier tune, if you have one you've got the later tune. Dead simple to DIY (once you've got it safely apart).
> 
> ...


When someone mentions the LSC having minimal function you appear to get defensive and then state that the user should revert to something like an old Rockshox fork as a defence. This is unhelpful and doesn't add anything to the conversation from the curious people/tinkerers who aren't engineers but have paid good money for a product that you are a self proclaimed expert on.

It's fair to think that the variation of LSC damping should be able to be felt when cycling the damper by hand out of the fork. With my fork it needs at least 2 or 3 clicks of HSC before any effect is felt and even then it is subtle.

Given Manitou's record on QC (I've had several lowers and a complete replacement fork, under and over filled dampers from factory too), it could also be fair to assume there are variations in the dampers large enough that some will function better than others?

Dougal, have you ever thought about doing a video of the Mezzer damper showing correct disassembly/assembly? A blueprinted damper ;-)


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> You sure love to make assumptions to justify your feelings...


...well ****.

I checked where the fork bottomed when i tore it down upon receiving it, and i i swear it bottomed on the crown... but you're 100% right and i'm a dingdong. ~6mm exposed when i tested it this afternoon, just like you said. I apologize for the heckling, and your solution with the tape is clever.

Sorry


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> When someone mentions the LSC having minimal function you appear to get defensive and then state that the user should revert to something like an old Rockshox fork as a defence. This is unhelpful and doesn't add anything to the conversation from the curious people/tinkerers who aren't engineers but have paid good money for a product that you are a self proclaimed expert on.
> 
> It's fair to think that the variation of LSC damping should be able to be felt when cycling the damper by hand out of the fork. With my fork it needs at least 2 or 3 clicks of HSC before any effect is felt and even then it is subtle.
> 
> ...


There appears to be a weird misconception about what LSC is and does. The purpose of LSC adjustment is to be able to tune the rise of the low speed damping up to the curve from the HSC circuits (shimmed piston).

The way LSC was run on many forks (including the Mattoc) was a huge LSC port that can change the whole damping curve across a very wide speed range. But it can't control low speed damping properly.

A 2mm port is 4% of the shaft diameter. It's made to be small and choke out early. But I don't think many people in MTB are used to that. Many other forks have been running LSC ports closer to 4mm (4x the flow) with a much stiffer shim stack. A lot of customers still expect that feel. It's exactly the same as wanting a rebound adjuster that goes to dead slow.

In a bench test I can feel and hear the difference. I've just tested it again with my own damper (with softer tune). With the LSC closed you can hear the shims working, with the LSC open you basically can't.

It'd be great to be able to do a video like that. But I just don't have the time.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

scottzg said:


> ...well ****.
> 
> I checked where the fork bottomed when i tore it down upon receiving it, and i i swear it bottomed on the crown... but you're 100% right and i'm a dingdong. ~6mm exposed when i tested it this afternoon, just like you said. I apologize for the heckling, and your solution with the tape is clever.
> 
> Sorry


It's all good. I appreciate the retraction... it's a rare thing, especially on the internet!


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Symion said:


> Can you backup your claim about change of compression in later batches?
> The NSMB review and teardown from 09/2019 shows exactly the internals my mezzer has.
> https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/
> 
> ...


And which manufacture date do you have?


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

You dont get it. Never said that the lsc port is too small or bad design.

The hsc ist too weak and the oil bypasses the lsc!
Im an engineer and doing this professional. Theres no mistake with the assembly for sure.

With a new, much stiffer setup i can run the hsc still closed on chunky dh trails but also control the wallowing. This wasnt possible before

I bought mine in the mid of december. Is the production date on the fork?
The pictures of the disassembled compression are mine too. The three shims on the right are on the piston.
The other shims are just spacers before and after the hsc spring.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Symion said:


> You dont get it. Never said that the lsc port is too small or bad design.
> 
> The hsc ist too weak and the oil bypasses the lsc!
> Im an engineer and doing this professional. Theres no mistake with the assembly for sure.
> ...


I have production date written on box , nice and clear , is your fork revision B ? with bleed ports on lowers ? I would say if there were any changes in damper they were rolled out with revison B , they just do not change things so often I thhink.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

What shock pumps are people using to get such fine control of the main air chamber pressure? My topeak and Rockshox pumps are graduated ever 10 psi so I can guess at half and quarter of that, but I couldn't say I'd put 54 psi in there.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

onzadog said:


> What shock pumps are people using to get such fine control of the main air chamber pressure? My topeak and Rockshox pumps are graduated ever 10 psi so I can guess at half and quarter of that, but I couldn't say I'd put 54 psi in there.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3I8REY/


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it doesn't actually take me to a pump.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

onzadog said:


> Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it doesn't actually take me to a pump.


Where does it take you?

I clicked it from my phone and my computer. Both take me right to the product page.

Try again?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> Where does it take you?
> 
> I clicked it from my phone and my computer. Both take me right to the product page.
> 
> Try again?


takes you to amazon homepage


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Buy a digital shock pump. Rock Shox has one, Fox too.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

POAH said:


> takes you to amazon homepage


Try again, I changed it. Maybe for those out of the US, the "smile.amazon..." doesn't work. It donates a portion of your purchases to charity.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Symion said:


> Buy a digital shock pump. Rock Shox has one, Fox too.


This. I have a Rockshox digital shock pump.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

onzadog said:


> What shock pumps are people using to get such fine control of the main air chamber pressure? My topeak and Rockshox pumps are graduated ever 10 psi so I can guess at half and quarter of that, but I couldn't say I'd put 54 psi in there.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=digital+shock+pump&_sacat=0

I have the Venzo with the airless chuck--


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

The best would be a shock pump with a 1/4" manometer - there are a couple. Then just buy a good low pressure 0-100PSI glycerine filled manometer to replace it (10-15€). Sadly most pumps are 1/8" - there are no high quality 0-100 BSPT in this size. And to install adapters you will have to file down a lot for them to fit. 
Second best is a digital pump (the 0-300PSI manometer still won't be the same quality as a decent 1/4" BSPT/NPT manomenter with 0-100PSI. Over 100PSI most 0-300PSI pumps are fine anyhow. Manometers are only from 25%-75% of their specified range in the accuracy rating. So also the 0-300PSI digital pump is easier to read - but it won't replicate perfectly below 75PSI. If you're a light rider and use 180mm you need something around 30PSI in the main chamber - so the standard shock pumps are simply no good.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have one of the standard Rockshox/Fox/DVO/world+dog style like this - https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-high-pressure-fork-shock-pump-300psi-max?variant=24088889413&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw6ecxsed6gIVT9bACh1lqA5IEAQYASABEgJMyfD_BwE

Works fine and tried this one - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081R6S78D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 because it has a fine grained pressure dial on the back of the main dial.

The Venzo is OK, the two dials don't quite match up so if the main gauge says '80 psi' the back will show '85' or something like that.

That makes my OCD a little crazy so I'm going to give https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DFXGZDO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 a whirl since digital gauge is going to be best I think for precise changes to forks and shocks.

Interesting read at https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-shock-pump-you-can-buy/ as far as fidelity of gauge on shocks.

Most of the digital shocks in that roundup are using the same gauge on the digital side of things.


----------



## crashing_sux (Aug 11, 2006)

I ended up having to look around a bit for a shock pump as I need about 325psi in my rear shock right now, and as you pointed out above, so many have that same 300psi gauge. It's a bit surprising that even shock manufacturers who support more than 300psi, will put their name on a pump that doesn't support the range their shock does. Well, maybe not surprising, but feels a little sloppy.


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

Most shock pumps are from the same factory anyhow - that's why the Rockshox pump / Venzo and so on only differs in tiny details. But yes there have been some different ones in the past - with 1/4" thread - which is what matters if you wanna put a high quality manometer on them.
For those that really need over 300 - there are some 600PSI pumps out there. However if you really only need 325 you could likely still use a 300 (over the top of the pressure likely is still exact - and if the pressure is only applied short time it's okay. Most manometer are built for constant pressure - so up to 75% they could stand the pressure for many years). I am really sure a good manual manometer with 60 or 80mm diameter
will be much more accurate than the digital ones used. 

With the mezzer and 180mm/lightweight the really big problem are simply the low pressures. There is a 200PSI 1/8 cheap manometer that is common - that's why the Marzocchi fork pump used that one. Even though the Marzocchi coil forks likely would have been served best with a 30PSI pump (then most people just counted strokes on a shock pump - or used no air at all because it was impossible to use the manometer so low of a 300PSI pump).


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The RS digital 300 psi pump shows an error over 300 psi, so that wouldn't work for you.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> The RS digital 300 psi pump shows an error over 300 psi, so that wouldn't work for you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


It doesnt matter as long as readings are repeatable


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nikon255 said:


> It doesnt matter as long as readings are repeatable


What reading? It says ERR

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

haha, yeah digital problem. Most analogue 300PSI manometer are still readable till 330 or so. usually they do not stop at the top reading (I actually think accuracy is fine, just manometer not made for that pressure - which should be fine as it's seldom in it's lifetime. Constant pressure would maybe break something). E.g. I often put 4bar into my tires even though pump stops at 2bar on the manometer. Hasn't been a problem at all (of course there will be a pressure where somethink will fail - but very unlikely 10% over max rated PSI reading).


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> What reading? It says ERR
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Misunderstood, sorry.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok I'm now on my 3rd mezzer and this current one has the latest lowers. And after a couple harder rides I think the bushings are again oversizing. But now it seems that the lower ones are the problem :/ I can feel and clearly hear for-back movement but on the top seals there is minimal movement. Not like on the old ones. The fork felt wonderfull for the first few rides but now the spiking is again here.
Have also two friends on new mezzers and will se how their fork develope.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

lukam said:


> Ok I'm now on my 3rd mezzer and this current one has the latest lowers. And after a couple harder rides I think the bushings are again oversizing. But now it seems that the lower ones are the problem :/ I can feel and clearly hear for-back movement but on the top seals there is minimal movement. Not like on the old ones. The fork felt wonderfull for the first few rides but now the spiking is again here.
> Have also two friends on new mezzers and will se how their fork develope.


You have isolated the motion to the fork bushings, not the headset or brakes? What travel setting?

If you pulled the fork and out the steerer in a vice, you could get a better measure of how much freeplay you are seeing at the axle.

I don't see how a looser bushing fit could in any way cause "spiking". So, that is a separate issue in my eyes.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

lukam said:


> Ok I'm now on my 3rd mezzer and this current one has the latest lowers. And after a couple harder rides I think the bushings are again oversizing. But now it seems that the lower ones are the problem :/ I can feel and clearly hear for-back movement but on the top seals there is minimal movement. Not like on the old ones. The fork felt wonderfull for the first few rides but now the spiking is again here.
> Have also two friends on new mezzers and will se how their fork develope.


Stupid question maybe but did you check lower leg nuts , my were ridiculosuly loose from factory


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Damper assembly. 
Is there anyone willing to place brief steps for damper tear down? I had damper shaft out and thought I would find myself but It does not seem very obvious to me, I never did it before and did not want to experiment on my fork. It could be useful for more people who want to adujst shims to their needs. I remember that Dougal mentioned it is sort of tricky. Lets make step by step guide together here ? 
Thanks anyone


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

torcha said:


> Stupid question maybe but did you check lower leg nuts , my were ridiculosuly loose from factory


similarly - have you checked your front rotor bolts, brake bolts?


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Checked everything. The knocking comes defenetly from the bushings.
Have to make me a new 37 burnishing tool asap so I can see how close they are to size.
The good thing on say a rockshox fork is that their bushing are almost always to tight and it can be sortet by sizing them. But here you cant shrink a oversized bushing :/
Oversized bushings make a lot of extra friction on side loading the fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lukam said:


> Checked everything. The knocking comes defenetly from the bushings.
> Have to make me a new 37 burnishing tool asap so I can see how close they are to size.
> The good thing on say a rockshox fork is that their bushing are almost always to tight and it can be sortet by sizing them. But here you cant shrink a oversized bushing :/
> Oversized bushings make a lot of extra friction on side loading the fork.


I've never seen a lower bushing loose enough to knock in riding. Even lower bushings that are loose on a bench check don't do it. But to check them you don't need a burnishing tool, you simply slide the lower legs on one side at a time.

It is easy to shrink oversized bushings though. Shave the joint.

What is this spiking?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I've never seen a lower bushing loose enough to knock in riding. Even lower bushings that are loose on a bench check don't do it. But to check them you don't need a burnishing tool, you simply slide the lower legs on one side at a time.
> 
> It is easy to shrink oversized bushings though. Shave the joint.
> 
> What is this spiking?


I had this spiking feeling on my second set of lowers. Seems the bushings would get so loose they would bind on some compressions which could be easily felt thru the bars.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Hi guys! Just received my Mezzer Pro, and i have a few questions.

- Should i do a 0 miles maintenance?
- Am i understand correct that there are few revisions of this fork, with slightly changed internals? 
- Is this ok that one leg has a small on-top scratch (cannot feel with a finger when touch, but can see)? Never own Manitou before and not sure that this not an anodize issue. 

Thanks


----------



## Frosty2019 (Jan 27, 2019)

No, it's not ok that your fork is damaged. Did you buy direct from Manitou?


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

I bought it at StarBike (just wrote them, they not yet replied), it looks like coating or paint issue (or maybe even damage, but this fork is new and was never installed). I cannot feel it when touching, and also it is difficult to see, but i just afraid that during usage this scratches can become bigger and will affect the fork performance and durability.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

danforth said:


> Hi guys! Just received my Mezzer Pro, and i have a few questions.
> 
> - Should i do a 0 miles maintenance?
> - Am i understand correct that there are few revisions of this fork, with slightly changed internals?
> ...


You should do a quick lube check on any new fork since most manufacturers seem to screw this up too often with too little or too much lube here and there. Specifically on the Mezzer, I noticed it needed lube inside the IRT chamber.

There should be zero visible flaws in the anodization of a new stanchion, that scratch is not cool. I would return it or request a replacement CSU under warranty if it is a scratch through the ano. If it can't be felt as a scratch, is it possible it is something on the surface of the ano that would rub off? Maybe gently rub it with an eraser or something to check? It doesn't look like it would be an issue with the function of the fork, but a new fork should be perfect, scratching the stanchions is an activity reserved for the purchaser.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'd give the stanchions a wipe with some isopropanol but if it doesn't come off, it's a warranty job.

I was about to order from Starbike so I'd be interested to here what their response to this is like. Do you know which version of the lowers you got?


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

onzadog said:


> I'd give the stanchions a wipe with some isopropanol


I think this is impossible to wipe them out. Also i just tried to found them again and i can't. They can be seen only from some angle and with light opposite to you, and only if you know where to staring at. I almost sure that they will not affect performance, but i will create request both on Manitou website and StarBike, so if this scratches start to grow, the will know that this is production defect.


onzadog said:


> Do you know which version of the lowers you got?


I don't know. How to know without disassembling the fork?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> I'd give the stanchions a wipe with some isopropanol but if it doesn't come off, it's a warranty job.
> 
> I was about to order from Starbike so I'd be interested to here what their response to this is like. Do you know which version of the lowers you got?


mine were fine from starbike.



danforth;14842393 said:


> I don't know. How to know without disassembling the fork?


manufacture date on the box and it should have a green dot.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

danforth said:


> (...)
> I don't know. How to know without disassembling the fork?


Did the lowers came with the TSR bleed ports?
I inquired them and they replied saying they would check with Manitou, but I'm yet to hear from them again.
Thx.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

POAH said:


> manufacture date on the box and it should have a green dot.


13 march 2020. Where green dot should be?



Aglo said:


> Did the lowers came with the TSR bleed ports?
> I inquired them and they replied saying they would check with Manitou, but I'm yet to hear from them again.
> Thx.


Not sure what you are talking about, but it looks like there are no bleeding ports. Can you show them on the image?


----------



## crashing_sux (Aug 11, 2006)

I just got my Mezzers in from JensonUsa after being backordered for 6 weeks and was surprised to see no dot on the box (maybe I missed it?) and no bleed ports.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> I had this spiking feeling on my second set of lowers. Seems the bushings would get so loose they would bind on some compressions which could be easily felt thru the bars.


I've never seen that. You can test bushing misalignment on the bench by only inserting the lowers through one leg bushing at a time and feeling how much misalignment you need to bind. It is significant and more than I've seen in any fork. The only binding I've found in use is tight bushings.



danforth said:


> - Is this ok that one leg has a small on-top scratch (cannot feel with a finger when touch, but can see)? Never own Manitou before and not sure that this not an anodize issue.
> 
> Thanks


Send it back. Something weird has happened to that fork at the shop. Stanchions that aren't perfect don't get used in the factory.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Send it back. Something weird has happened to that fork at the shop. Stanchions that aren't perfect don't get used in the factory.


I am waiting for reply from StarBike. Will tell you about their decision.

How the bleeding ports should looks like? Any photos here? Thanks.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Bleed ports are two M5 socket caps on the rear arch.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

danforth said:


> I am waiting for reply from StarBike. Will tell you about their decision.
> 
> How the bleeding ports should looks like? Any photos here? Thanks.


The only pics I have seen are the ones posted by *torcha*



torcha said:


> View attachment 1338679
> View attachment 1338681
> View attachment 1338683


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Do you mean this?
upd: i see now, this is bleeding ports. Thanks for the photos.
What is the purpose of this ports?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

There's a bit in the manual that explains how they can be used to add a little oil at 25 hours in-between 50 hour services. So, the Starbike ones have bleed ports?


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

onzadog said:


> There's a bit in the manual that explains how they can be used to add a little oil at 25 hours in-between 50 hour services. So, the Starbike ones have bleed ports?


Yes, on the photo below this is my fork from starbike. But not sure what they will do with that issue on stanchions, will they replace this or keep it like that... I will notify about their decision.


----------



## crashing_sux (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm missing those ports in my fork from JensonUsa. Probably completely unneeded, but still, I feel just a tiny bit disappointed I don't have them.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

nikon255 said:


> sounds like overfilled damper, resulted in hydrolock


Can you explain how can overfilled damper cause hydrolock? I just done bleeding procedure and after that I can definitelly feel the HBO is much firmer than it was before. I was carefull to do bleeding procedure correctly according to manual and definitelly there is more oil now than it was before. Oil type is good no question here. Thanks


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

crashing_sux said:


> I'm missing those ports in my fork from JensonUsa. Probably completely unneeded, but still, I feel just a tiny bit disappointed I don't have them.


What is the build date on the box? The lowers with the ports are only on the most recent production, I believe. Are the MANITOU letters individual stickers, or one large sticker on yours?


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

crashing_sux said:


> I'm missing those ports in my fork from JensonUsa. Probably completely unneeded, but still, I feel just a tiny bit disappointed I don't have them.


Supposedly - there is a green check mark or sticker on the box if the fork has been fixed/updated.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

kwapik said:


> Supposedly - there is a green check mark or sticker on the box if the fork has been fixed/updated.


a green hand written " B" was next to the " mezzer pro 29 bt mblk 180" was on my box's label. == I got mine from Dirt Merchant mid May.
I thought the fork would have been put together in 2020 , but the manufacture date was in August 2019
I contacted Hayes, and green " B" means that the fork was serviced at their shop after it was already assembled.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Yeah, I thought I had read that. Thanks for the clarification/information.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I've never seen that. You can test bushing misalignment on the bench by only inserting the lowers through one leg bushing at a time and feeling how much misalignment you need to bind. It is significant and more than I've seen in any fork. The only binding I've found in use is tight bushings.


Only other explanation is the damper was hydrolocking. The damper had vented excess oil and that oil looked badly contaminated..I think I posted that pic back in the thread...since the lowers have been replaced again and the damper oil changed/bled it has been drama free thankfully.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Symion said:


> I have to intervene here.
> First the compression damping of the mezzer is to weak and nearly useless.
> Second on the first two postions from open the hsc does not preload the shimstack (3x .1 Shims!). As a result the hsc ports act like a bypass and the lsc has no effect.
> I checked this by disassembling the complete compression circuit.
> ...


Hello Symion , I opened the damper, thanks to your advice how. But I want to discuss this: in this photo which is yours, the bottom line with shims - this should be the correct order of things? Lets number the elements 1 to 8 from left to right ok ? Than if the washer number 4 is where you have it, it blocks the faceshim from touching the spring first two clicks from HSC open. It does not make much sense , on the other hand, If you place this washer over faceshim, than it is in contact with spring from first click. Or this washer could teoreticaly sit on top of last shim. I could not catch correctly how things were aligned because they were trapped in blader , upon taking them out I lost the order. 
@Dougal I believe you were there, can you confirm on which position should be the washer num 4 , left or right to faceshim?
Thank you very much








Also in this other picture , I think the washer is there on the top of face shim don't you think?


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Hey all, looking to do some servicing on my fork, and I can't seem to find the following in stock anywhere. Can anyone point me to somewhere to get these service items and/or provide alternatives?

Cartridge Damper Bleed Kit 141-30694-K020
• 37mm seal kit 141-36713-K025 and Air piston Seal Kit 141-36713-K027
or Rebuild kit 141-36713-K026

This would be for the full service. Thanks!


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Bike components.de seem to carry more spares than anywhere else but I'm not sure they have everything you need.

Didn't someone say further up this thread, that the bleed kit is the same as for a reverb or an old set of avid brakes?


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

jcmonty said:


> Hey all, looking to do some servicing on my fork, and I can't seem to find the following in stock anywhere. Can anyone point me to somewhere to get these service items and/or provide alternatives?
> 
> Cartridge Damper Bleed Kit 141-30694-K020
> • 37mm seal kit 141-36713-K025 and Air piston Seal Kit 141-36713-K027
> ...


Have you checked with the resident Manitou dealer aka Dougal?

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

@Danforth, have you had any response from Starbike yet? I've tried emailing them a couple if times but had no response.

I'm now thinking that, although it will cost more, I should buy my forks from somewhere else. Manitou QA/QC seems so hit and miss, it feels like there's a good chance of needing decent after sales support.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> Hey all, looking to do some servicing on my fork, and I can't seem to find the following in stock anywhere. Can anyone point me to somewhere to get these service items and/or provide alternatives?
> 
> Cartridge Damper Bleed Kit 141-30694-K020
> • 37mm seal kit 141-36713-K025 and Air piston Seal Kit 141-36713-K027
> ...


Seal kit: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-37-mm-fork-seal-kit-oe.html
200H Full Service Kit: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mezzer-rebuild-kit-manitou.html

Air piston seals are included in the 200H service kit. But it's a quad-ring and o-ring. Easy for us to provide separately if required.

For bleed fittings, I'll confess to not knowing about that bleed tool before your post. I'll add one to the next order. Shimano M5 brake or SRAM Reverb fittings work fine. Same M5 threads.

In my experience the SKF green low friction seals are good for 2-3 seasons riding and the Trelleborg Manitou low friction seals (Mattoc) are good for 1-2 seasons. I wouldn't bother replacing the Mezzer SKF wipers unless they're leaking or you've had at least one good season on them.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

onzadog said:


> @Danforth, have you had any response from Starbike yet? I've tried emailing them a couple if times but had no response.
> 
> I'm now thinking that, although it will cost more, I should buy my forks from somewhere else. Manitou QA/QC seems so hit and miss, it feels like there's a good chance of needing decent after sales support.


If it can help you I know that starbike , bikediscount.de and www.bike24.com they all have most recent version of Mezzer , I asked all of them in may. If you do not like something about the fork upon receiving just send it back and buy new one , all these 3 has perfect two weeks return policy without reason. So just by new one and send the current back , wait for money , that;s fastet way how to ride


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> @Dougal I believe you were there, can you confirm on which position should be the washer num 4 , left or right to faceshim?
> Thank you very much
> View attachment 1346059
> 
> ...


The photo I took back in December doesn't have washer (#1), it was probably still stuck to the HSC preload plate. What you call a faceshim is what I call the preload cup. It is there to transfer force from the HSC spring to the outer edge of the shim-stack. Which it does.
The washers you see either side of the HSC spring are to stop the spring wearing the aluminium parts either side.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> The photo I took back in December doesn't have washer (#1), it was probably still stuck to the HSC preload plate. What you call a faceshim is what I call the preload cup. It is there to transfer force from the HSC spring to the outer edge of the shim-stack. Which it does.
> The washers you see either side of the HSC spring are to stop the spring wearing the aluminium parts either side.


which december photo ? could it mean that the washer should be sitting on top of last face shim?

"It is there to transfer force from the HSC spring to the outer edge of the shim-stack. Which it does." well it odes not if the washer is bellow preload cup , because it prevents it to slide to spring in first 2 clicks of HSC


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

onzadog said:


> @Danforth, have you had any response from Starbike yet? I've tried emailing them a couple if times but had no response.
> 
> I'm now thinking that, although it will cost more, I should buy my forks from somewhere else. Manitou QA/QC seems so hit and miss, it feels like there's a good chance of needing decent after sales support.


Yes, i received a response, they give me a choice: 30 euro discount, or replace with the new fork, but there is the problem, because i am not from Germany, this can be difficult to return fork back, also i speak with my mech and he said that this scratch is not critical and probably will not affect a performance or durability. I will ask Manitou about will the warranty void due to this damage, and if yes, i will definitely replace it, but if the warranty is ok, maybe i will keep this fork.

Not sure about a StarBike, but it looks like this shop is ok, especially if you are from Germany, just check the stanchions upon delivery.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm from the UK but our prices are higher and stock seems to be older.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> which december photo ? could it mean that the washer should be sitting on top of last face shim?
> 
> "It is there to transfer force from the HSC spring to the outer edge of the shim-stack. Which it does." well it odes not if the washer is bellow preload cup , because it prevents it to slide to spring in first 2 clicks of HSC


A photo I took in December when I had my damper apart but never posted online.

I don't see any evidence of that washer being in the wrong place from the exploded photo. It's all laid out as it should be.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Symion said:


> @CCS86
> @Dougal
> 
> Original sealpreload is on the upper end for simple orings. The xring on the main piston seals well with less preload, specially in pneumatic applications.
> ...


I'm not talking about temperature change in use. I'm talking about ambient temperature. Manitou have forks that work in -15C and about 40C.

If you "optimise" seal crush for 20C then you'll get air leaks past in the cold. Because the rubber seals and plastic piston both shrink a lot more than the aluminium stanchions do with the cold.

If you never ride in the cold you'll probably be fine. Just have shorter seal life as you have less wear tolerance now.



danforth said:


> Yes, i received a response, they give me a choice: 30 euro discount, or replace with the new fork, but there is the problem, because i am not from Germany, this can be difficult to return fork back, also i speak with my mech and he said that this scratch is not critical and probably will not affect a performance or durability. I will ask Manitou about will the warranty void due to this damage, and if yes, i will definitely replace it, but if the warranty is ok, maybe i will keep this fork.
> 
> Not sure about a StarBike, but it looks like this shop is ok, especially if you are from Germany, just check the stanchions upon delivery.


30 Euro is about 10% of a new CSU and installation. Seriouisly send it back. Someone in the shop has damaged that fork. It does not happen in the factory.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Someone in the shop has damaged that fork. It does not happen in the factory.


My opinion that this scratch was created on factory during testing, and that's why i think so: 1) the scratch is straight parallel to the stanchion (it is difficult to create such straight line damage if the box with the fork falls down or something like that), looks like something inside the fork scratches the stanchion when it was pushed down (probably during final testing or something like that); 2) the fork is new and never was riden, no signs that it was installed or something else.

Anyway, thanks for advice, i will try to ship it back.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> A photo I took in December when I had my damper apart but never posted online.
> 
> I don't see any evidence of that washer being in the wrong place from the exploded photo. It's all laid out as it should be.


well in photo bellow there is this washer visible on top of preload cup , photo is not very clear , but consider the piston itself is full aluminium = silver all the way , the preload cup the same, silver all the way , than the grey thing is the washer. Also I did learn the hard way , I assembled the damper the way it was exploded in that previous picture and ended up with fork which was heavily damped ( I do not mention that I removed one shim) unfortunately I was not very smart and took one ride on it. When I looked inside again I saw the preload cup was already bent a bit as it was sitting on this tiny washer not being backed up by spring because, I was riding with HSC 1 click from opened only. I should have had realized this before, luckily I was able to straighten the preload cup so damage is minor, not affecting the function. On next assembly, I put the washer on top of preload cup as is in the picture below and I have my fork back , uff and I can feel the one shim which I remove aswell . I placed the question to Zak from Manitou to confirm all this , cause there is still option that the washer should be on the top of shims.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

danforth said:


> My opinion that this scratch was created on factory during testing, and that's why i think so: 1) the scratch is straight parallel to the stanchion (it is difficult to create such straight line damage if the box with the fork falls down or something like that), looks like something inside the fork scratches the stanchion when it was pushed down (probably during final testing or something like that); 2) the fork is new and never was riden, no signs that it was installed or something else.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for advice, i will try to ship it back.


In an assembly line (I have been to the factory) you don't get one-off damage like that. You either get all of them with damage or none.


----------



## crashing_sux (Aug 11, 2006)

Velodonata said:


> What is the build date on the box? The lowers with the ports are only on the most recent production, I believe. Are the MANITOU letters individual stickers, or one large sticker on yours?


August 27th, 2019 with a green dot. Not sure about the stickers but I'll have to look at that next time I'm in my garage. Not sweating it too much though, sure rides nice, seemed well lubed and oiled when I opened it up, no problems that I can find and working so much better than the Lyric Select it replaced.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal, any thoughts about Manitou recommending to somebody that these specific dust seals get no grease at all?

Has anything on that been relayed to you?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Dougal, any thoughts about Manitou recommending to somebody that these specific dust seals get no grease at all?
> 
> Has anything on that been relayed to you?


I think it's SKF being leary of random greases and expecting you to use a smear of bath oil instead. I had already used Slickoleum on my Mezzer seals before hearing of this and have had no seal issues.


----------



## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

So I hope to build up a Pivot Switchblade V2 in August or September. Should I get a Mezzer over a Fox 36 2021? I’m a lighter rider 135 lbs. It will be 160mm. I’ve been riding a hardtail this year with a 2017 Fox 36 FIT 4. It’s been fine over the years but my shock wiz is always saying to lower my high speed compression which of course I can’t do. I don’t think I will buy a Lyric this round since my son’s Slash 8 has a Yari that I will upgrade the damper for at some point to the same as the Lyric, and can test that this way and always swap it over to my bike if I prefer it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The grip 2 is supposedly a lot better than the FIT4. But do you have any complaints with how it feels (beyond shockwis?)


----------



## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

cassieno said:


> The grip 2 is supposedly a lot better than the FIT4. But do you have any complaints with how it feels (beyond shockwis?)


Sometimes it feels a bit firm or harsh over multiple repeated hits like roots at speed. I wouldn't call it plush compared to some bikes I've rented when traveling. But honestly I don't have a ton of experience with different forks. I just plan to buy a new one for the Switchblade V2 and was inclined to get a Fox 36 but was curious about the Mezzer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I was on the Hayes website to confirm the A2C measurement and noticed the 29" 51mm Mezzers are $799 right now:

https://hayesbicycle.com/products/mezzer-1?variant=32139567759405


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cesjr said:


> So I hope to build up a Pivot Switchblade V2 in August or September. Should I get a Mezzer over a Fox 36 2021? I'm a lighter rider 135 lbs. It will be 160mm. I've been riding a hardtail this year with a 2017 Fox 36 FIT 4. It's been fine over the years but my shock wiz is always saying to lower my high speed compression which of course I can't do. I don't think I will buy a Lyric this round since my son's Slash 8 has a Yari that I will upgrade the damper for at some point to the same as the Lyric, and can test that this way and always swap it over to my bike if I prefer it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The only downside to the Mezzer for lighter riders is the air-spring is quite progressive. So you have to be a hard rider to get full travel.

If you're not a hard rider, the Mattoc would be more suitable for that reason.

Both will outperform the Fox.


----------



## Berm VonCrashen (Nov 21, 2015)

Will have to second what Dougal said.

I am one of those light riders but also have a tendency to plough through features after coming in too hot an heavy.

Only a few rides in and have been playing with the setups with various air settings and only a rebound change and have yet to use all the travel. Closest is using all but 25mm from the crown and that was base air setting. 

Albeit, on the trail where i found a better balance in air pressure-the rock garden for testing, the fork was supple and soaked up the rocks without feeling like i was bottoming out or packing up. At the other end there is a sizeable drop into more rocks followed by a pedal-athon and they felt good under load. Checking the travel ring i had room to play and felt confident to hit harder again off the drop and get more use of the final bit of travel.

Overall the best forks i have owned and suit my lighter weight and poor line choices...


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm a light rider at 66kg bathroom weight, ride very smooth - but I had no problems using 170-175mm on my 180mm. Actually never had a fork that I could use the travel so well. On my Pike before - I only used full 160mm once - when I crashed into a tree. Else never more than 145-150mm. On my 66 before no chance anyhow. Only used liek 160 out of 180 (or 170 with too soft spring). On my Fox 40 Coil Fit 4 I also never used over 185 out of 200mm.. 
So I really don't think the Mezzer is progressive. Just needs some fiddling with the air values. 

Mattoc doesn't exist in 29" in longer travel - so never considered it. And I do like my fork to be stiff. Flexy forks for me tend to stiffen up while breaking. Mezzer doesn't and for me performance while breaking is like the most important thing as I mainly ride really steep stuff.


----------



## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

Dougal said:


> The only downside to the Mezzer for lighter riders is the air-spring is quite progressive. So you have to be a hard rider to get full travel.
> 
> If you're not a hard rider, the Mattoc would be more suitable for that reason.
> 
> Both will outperform the Fox.


Thanks, maybe I will read through the Mattoc thread. But does the Mattoc Pro have all the latest Manitou tech as in the Mezzer? Also, how stiff is the Mattoc at 160mm compared to a Fox 36 or a Mezzer. So when I was last shopping for bikes and forks in 2017, I much preferred every bike with a Fox 36 over ones with a Fox 34 above 150mm travel. I like a fork I can drive into things without feeling vague.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> The only downside to the Mezzer for lighter riders is the air-spring is quite progressive. So you have to be a hard rider to get full travel.
> 
> If you're not a hard rider, the Mattoc would be more suitable for that reason.
> 
> Both will outperform the Fox.


Even with the IRT fully aired down?

I would imagine that if it was still too progressive with the IRT collapsed, you could pull its piston (and shaft maybe) to increase volume even more.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

cesjr said:


> Thanks, maybe I will read through the Mattoc thread. But does the Mattoc Pro have all the latest Manitou tech as in the Mezzer? Also, how stiff is the Mattoc at 160mm compared to a Fox 36 or a Mezzer. So when I was last shopping for bikes and forks in 2017, I much preferred every bike with a Fox 36 over ones with a Fox 34 above 150mm travel. I like a fork I can drive into things without feeling vague.


You will have to get a mattoc 3 pro boost which has a crown with similar design to the mezzer and the more massive rear arch. This one is plenty stiff. The original mattoc with that thin arch is rather flexy


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Has the Mattoc 3 Pro Boost lost any weight?

That's what always got me, the Mattoc in 29" Boost format was as heavy a Lyrik and now the Mezzer. The Mezzer is such a great fork (at least on paper) that not only does it compete favorably against the 38 and Zeb in weight and price, and not only matches or exceeds the relative value and performance of the 36 and Lyrik, but it completely blows every other Manitou fork product out of the water. Like, if you needed a 130mm fork, I might try to make the Mezzer work over the Mattoc, Pike, or 34. 

I don't doubt the Mattoc is plenty stiff, but for a few extra weeks of saving you can get a Mezzer that'll do everything the Mattoc can for the same weight (except run at 100-120mm). 

If they could bring the Mattoc with 29x2.8 clearance and 100-150mm down to 1800g, that'd be a winner. It'd likely be stiffer than the 34 or Pike, weigh a hair less, with a far better damper and air spring.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I run my Lyrik at 130mm if the Mezzer can do that, that's a pretty winning combo. I have a 2017 Pike that I am looking to replace, but, I'll probably go with the R7 Pro (wtf manitou naming scheme), because that looks like everything I want for that bike.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

cassieno said:


> I run my Lyrik at 130mm if the Mezzer can do that, that's a pretty winning combo. I have a 2017 Pike that I am looking to replace, but, I'll probably go with the R7 Pro (wtf manitou naming scheme), because that looks like everything I want for that bike.


Does 140-180. 
Which frame you planning to put it on?
It's a killer fork

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a GG Trail Pistol that I like running as a 130/130. The ability to bounce between 130/140 in the front is pretty great depending on the terrain. 

For my local riding (and it's pretty much all local this year) 130/130 works really well. I think the R7 pro is similar(?) in terms of technology just a shorter travel / lighter package.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

cassieno said:


> I have a GG Trail Pistol that I like running as a 130/130. The ability to bounce between 130/140 in the front is pretty great depending on the terrain.
> 
> For my local riding (and it's pretty much all local this year) 130/130 works really well. I think the R7 pro is similar(?) in terms of technology just a shorter travel / lighter package.


Similar but 100-120mm travel
Looks like the Mattoc is the only one that does 130?

Hell, I ride a 180 front 158 rear Evolink on local XC trails in Florida and love it...but I'm weird like that

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You could certainly throw one more spacer on the Mezzer and run it 130mm. The negative chamber volume might be getting a little large at that point. But you could probably put a spacer in there too.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Even with the IRT fully aired down?
> 
> I would imagine that if it was still too progressive with the IRT collapsed, you could pull its piston (and shaft maybe) to increase volume even more.


Yeah. Because the Mattoc with IRT aired down is less progressive still.

For example Mrs Dougal is running like 25/35psi on a Mattoc and doesn't quite bottom it out. Zero reason to put her on a Mezzer.



cesjr said:


> Thanks, maybe I will read through the Mattoc thread. But does the Mattoc Pro have all the latest Manitou tech as in the Mezzer? Also, how stiff is the Mattoc at 160mm compared to a Fox 36 or a Mezzer. So when I was last shopping for bikes and forks in 2017, I much preferred every bike with a Fox 36 over ones with a Fox 34 above 150mm travel. I like a fork I can drive into things without feeling vague.


Yes Mattoc Pro has IRT, HBO, excellent damper. Main thing missing from the Mattoc was a long travel 29" option! I can get 150mm from the 27+/29" Mattoc.

Mattoc is a lot stiffer than a F34.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> You could certainly throw one more spacer on the Mezzer and run it 130mm. The negative chamber volume might be getting a little large at that point. But you could probably put a spacer in there too.


The travel spacers are negative volume reducers, they serve a dual purpose.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> The travel spacers are negative volume reducers, they serve a dual purpose.


Doh, that makes sense! I'm not firing on all cylinders today.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> The travel spacers are negative volume reducers, they serve a dual purpose.


They are. But they are minimum volume spacers. Someone at Manitou put a lot of effort into making them the least material possible.

So just add grease if you want to reduce neg volume more.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Speaking of spacers, a member here asked me to make a 5mm travel spacer, so I created a design based off the OEM ones. If anyone needs one, shoot me a message.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Mattoc is a lot stiffer than a F34.


Well yea, it's 200g heavier!


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

How does one adjust the negative volume or does it self equalize?

For a larger rider, running higher pressures in the main and IRT chambers, wouldn't a large negative volume actually be a good thing, making the fork more supple at a shorter travel?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Not got a set yet, but as I understand it, connecting the pump to the bottom valve opens up both the main spring chamber and negative chamber which will inflate to the same pressure. The advice is the ensure there is no weight on the bike when you do this otherwise you might well end up with more pressure than intended in the negative chamber.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

PHeller said:


> How does one adjust the negative volume or does it self equalize?
> 
> For a larger, running higher pressures in the main and IRT chambers, wouldn't a large negative volume actually be a good thing, making the fork more supple at a shorter travel?


Volume is independent of equalization of pressure.

Any time the pump is connected, both chambers are equalized for pressure, so feel right at the top of stroke will always be the same.

Having a larger negative volume will soften the "nose" of the spring rate curve, as the negative spring pressure falls off more slowly through the stroke. Whether that is something you want comes down to personal preference.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Sorry, yea I used the wrong terminology there.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Finally pulled the trigger on a set of these. First job will be pulling them apart to change travel. While I'm in there, I might was well check bushing tolerance one leg at a time and lower bath lube.

I've got some fox gold 20wt which while not as good as the supergliss, will do the job until I've used the nearly new bottle I have.

I notice the Mezzer manual calls for Slickoleum in the air spring. My next question comes in two parts.
A. If there's no transfer port, then wouldn't oil in each air chamber be better than grease (I've got the Fox 20wt gold and Fox Float Fluid in the house)? It shouldn't be able to migrate from one chamber to the next between services.
B. If grease is better than oil, is Slickoleum noticeably better than M-prep or Superlube? Is it worth softening any of these with a drop or two of fork oil?

Edit for spelling.


----------



## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

My 29/160/51 mezzer arrived this morning. I was happy to see it was the Rev B castings with the updated bushings and TSR valves. Took about 10 or 15 minutes to adjust travel to 150mm, add a couple cc of oil to the IRT, and check bath oil. The leg nuts were super loose, as was the air spring cap. Everything was super easy to work on with standard tools. I can confirm that a park tool FR-5.2 fits over the fill valve with the air spring fully inserted. No need for the specialty slotted cassette tool IMO.

At 230-240 ride weight, I aired the IRT up to 110, and main spring to 75. Just pedaling around, it seems supportive. Its longer than my magnum 27.5+ that came off the bike, but its going to take a little while to get used to slightly less stanchion showing. Its playing mental tricks on me making me think the fork is riding deeper in its travel. Its oppressively hot out right now, so I'm not going for a maiden voyage right this minute, maybe later this evening. This thing sure looks beefy. 

Also, these are 27.5x2.8 nobby nics on i45 hoops. They measure out 2.950 inches across. They fit fine in the 29er fork, with about 6-7mm clearance on each side, which should be plenty with a stiff 52mm wide carbon hoop. I did have to re-dish my wheel just a touch to get it centered.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on a set of these. First job will be pulling them apart to change travel. While I'm in there, I might was well check bushing tolerance one leg at a time and lower bath lube.
> 
> I've got some fox gold 20wt which while not as good as the supergliss, will do the job until I've just the nearly new bottle I have.
> 
> ...


you can change travel without pouring the oil out.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Cheers. I realise it can be saved, but I don't remember the last time I had a fork that was properly lubed from the factory. Thought it worth a proper once over.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

onzadog said:


> Cheers. I realise it can be saved, but I don't remember the last time I had a fork that was properly lubed from the factory. Thought it worth a proper once over.


Always a good idea. Report back on your findings, hopefully they are getting better about this. Mine was good with the glaring exception of the IRT being bone dry inside, but with a big glop of grease on the bottom of the IRT piston, inside the main air chamber. Seems hard to screw up but fortunately easy to fix. Similar to the massive glops of grease overfilling the last few Fox negative chambers I have opened up. I don't get it.


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Every fork manufacturer needs to improve their QC


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

kwapik said:


> Every fork manufacturer needs to improve their QC


Ha, now that you mention it there is another visible minor QC issue in that picture. One that has already been taken care of by Manitou for all Mezzers going forward.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Ha, now that you mention it there is another visible minor QC issue in that picture. One that has already been taken care of by Manitou for all Mezzers going forward.


Sticker wrinkles?

They've switched to individual letters now. No big sheet to wrinkle. I had good success heating and smoothing them on a new fork.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Sticker wrinkles?
> 
> They've switched to individual letters now. No big sheet to wrinkle. I had good success heating and smoothing them on a new fork.


Yup. That wrinkly one is on my workstand now. I was already planning to replace them with custom color keyed individual letters, but it was still disappointing. The new individual letter stickers on the Rev B lowers are an improvement and a nice detail. A lot harder to scan, though.


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

Just got a 29er 160 Mezzer and a 120 Mattoc Pro. Super Stoked. Forks are the only part of the bike I am not comfortable doing major work on (bleeding the IRT). Are there any US companies that do Factory Fork Service similar to Push, Vorsprung etc? Thanks!


----------



## NOS_ATX (Jul 8, 2020)

Alpenglow said:


> Just got a 29er 160 Mezzer and a 120 Mattoc Pro. Super Stoked. Forks are the only part of the bike I am not comfortable doing major work on (bleeding the IRT). Are there any US companies that do Factory Fork Service similar to Push, Vorsprung etc? Thanks!


I live in Colorado and I go to Dirtlabs (the founder of Dirtlabs used to work for Paul Turner at Maverick). If you are not local, you can mail in your forks/shocks/droppers.


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

NOS_ATX said:


> I live in Colorado and I go to Dirtlabs (the founder of Dirtlabs used to work for Paul Turner at Maverick). If you are not local, you can mail in your forks/shocks/droppers.


Thanks Man!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Alpenglow said:


> Just got a 29er 160 Mezzer and a 120 Mattoc Pro. Super Stoked. Forks are the only part of the bike I am not comfortable doing major work on (bleeding the IRT). Are there any US companies that do Factory Fork Service similar to Push, Vorsprung etc? Thanks!


I'd recommend downloading the Mezzer service guide and give it a read. Doing a lowers / IRT / air spring service is pretty easy.

There is no bleeding of the IRT. Maybe you are thinking of a shock's IFP?

The Mezzer has a sealed cartridge damper and it's unlikely to need a bleed from the factory.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> Seems hard to screw up but fortunately easy to fix. Similar to the massive glops of grease overfilling the last few Fox negative chambers I have opened up. I don't get it.


Engineered by educated, intelligent, and well-paid people; assembled by minimum wage potheads.


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> I'd recommend downloading the Mezzer service guide and give it a read. Doing a lowers / IRT / air spring service is pretty easy.
> 
> There is no bleeding of the IRT. Maybe you are thinking of a shock's IFP?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I am good for lower leg service. I read early in this thread about a bleed being necessary at like the 200 hour mark. I think Dougal described how to do it. My fork is good for now. Just trying to have the right info for when I need something more extensive than lower leg service.


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

onzadog said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on a set of these. First job will be pulling them apart to change travel. While I'm in there, I might was well check bushing tolerance one leg at a time and lower bath lube.
> 
> I've got some fox gold 20wt which while not as good as the supergliss, will do the job until I've used the nearly new bottle I have.
> 
> ...


A.) sounds logical and the better solution for me. Oil will be there where you need it. grease always sticks at the end of the travel

Has anybody tryed both?


----------



## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

How can you tell if the Mezza is Rev 2? 

Thanks.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on a set of these. First job will be pulling them apart to change travel. While I'm in there, I might was well check bushing tolerance one leg at a time and lower bath lube.
> 
> I've got some fox gold 20wt which while not as good as the supergliss, will do the job until I've used the nearly new bottle I have.
> 
> ...


Slickoleum Grease is used in the air-spring because it defies gravity much better than oil. Oil all ends up in the negative chamber and does so in a relatively short space of time. All seals bypass some oil but grease doesn't really get through.

Prep M was a grease developed by Motorex for Manitou back in 2000. Manitou switched to Slickoleum quite a few years ago now. Pretty much everyone uses Slickoleum now.

Mixing oil and grease means the oil dissolves the grease and can wash it off the surfaces you want it to create a film on. It gets complicated.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. Best try and track down some Slickoleum.


----------



## yetiman71 (Mar 12, 2008)

Hey all….I’ve just been reading through this thread as the Mezzer is on my shortlist for a new LT 29er fork, along with a Helm air and DVO Onyx SC. All three are similarly priced. I currently have a 2019 Lyrik RC2 (Charger 2) bought last year to replace a 2014 Avalanche Pike which has a knackered CSU. The Lyrik has failed to impress me with a firm over-damped feel and inconsistent performance (riding the Avalanche Pike for 5 years has spoiled me I think) so I'm now looking at options for either a new damper assy for the Lyrik or a new fork. While I love the Avy Pike I do prefer the stiffer chassis of a 36 or Lyrik so I'm not currently planning on fixing the CSU issue. 

I'm 6ft 1” and 170lbs (75ish kg) and I ride natural wooded trails in NE Scotland which are pretty steep and techy in places with lots of fast rock and root strewn sections. I’m more of a wheels on the ground rider but don’t mind the odd drop-off or jump. Bike is a Bird AM9 with a Marzocchi Bomber coil and I’ll be running whatever fork I get at 170mm. I'm hoping for less arm pump in the gnar and a bit more mid-stroke consistency.

On page 7 there's talk of the later Mezzers coming with a lighter compression tune but is this actually correct, and are any of you similar to me in weight, or lighter, and finding the Mezzer ok?

Also, has anyone spent time on a Helm air or Onyx and care to comment (in comparison to the Mezzer and Lyrik)? The Helm coil is supposedly quite heavily damped and not suited to lighter riders but I can’t find any mention of this on the air version, and there’s virtually no reviews of the Onyx. 

Lastly, has anyone in UK or Europe bought a Mezzer recently and can confirm if they are the latest version? 

Thanks
Pablo


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

yetiman71 said:


> Hey all&#8230;.I've just been reading through this thread as the Mezzer is on my shortlist for a new LT 29er fork, along with a Helm air and DVO Onyx SC. All three are similarly priced. I currently have a 2019 Lyrik RC2 (Charger 2) bought last year to replace a 2014 Avalanche Pike which has a knackered CSU. The Lyrik has failed to impress me with a firm over-damped feel and inconsistent performance (riding the Avalanche Pike for 5 years has spoiled me I think) so I'm now looking at options for either a new damper assy for the Lyrik or a new fork. While I love the Avy Pike I do prefer the stiffer chassis of a 36 or Lyrik so I'm not currently planning on fixing the CSU issue.
> 
> I'm 6ft 1" and 170lbs (75ish kg) and I ride natural wooded trails in NE Scotland which are pretty steep and techy in places with lots of fast rock and root strewn sections. I'm more of a wheels on the ground rider but don't mind the odd drop-off or jump. Bike is a Bird AM9 with a Marzocchi Bomber coil and I'll be running whatever fork I get at 170mm. I'm hoping for less arm pump in the gnar and a bit more mid-stroke consistency.
> 
> ...


I've ridden a Diamond (yes way different than onyx), but it was an excellent fork. Never had it on current bike (Pole Evolink 158). If you're on Facebook, DVO has a great active rider community that I'm sure could give feedback on how the Onyx rides. I know most of the people on there that have one seem to absolutely love the fork.
As far as damper on the Lyrik, short of the Ava cartridge, I'd say don't bother. I did an HC97 and felt I went from over dampened to non-dampened. Also have ridden the Lyrik with both Vorsprung Smashpot (good but tough if you're like me and in between spring rates) and DSD Runt (probably the best the fork felt with the dual pos air chamber similar to Mezzer).
Never ridden the CC, but supposed to be a decent fork. From what I've also read, it's supposedly tough to get parts to do your own service (if you're into that).
Mezzer my favorite fork so far. It's definitely a tinkerer's fork with the ability to set dial positive air chamber pressures, useful compression dials, and the ability to disassemble with nearly no special tools. I'm still zeroing in on what pressures I want to run, but it's been a blast riding my bike with it so far

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## yetiman71 (Mar 12, 2008)

Cheers for the quick reply. An Avy damper is still a consideration but it's the most expensive option and also not the quickest to get delivered. I looked at other options like the HC97 etc but they are pretty expensive and I wasn't sure if they would give me the improvements I'm looking for. 

I don't mind tinkering with suspension (I've spent years riding Avy and Push stuff and quite like the geek) so that doesn't put me off.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

UK importer doesn't expect the newer version until October.

I've ordered from StarBike as others on here have had the latest version. I say ordered, I did that in Friday but still not had an email to confirm the order.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

yetiman71 said:


> Hey all&#8230;.I've just been reading through this thread as the Mezzer is on my shortlist for a new LT 29er fork, along with a Helm air and DVO Onyx SC. All three are similarly priced. I currently have a 2019 Lyrik RC2 (Charger 2) bought last year to replace a 2014 Avalanche Pike which has a knackered CSU. The Lyrik has failed to impress me with a firm over-damped feel and inconsistent performance (riding the Avalanche Pike for 5 years has spoiled me I think) so I'm now looking at options for either a new damper assy for the Lyrik or a new fork. While I love the Avy Pike I do prefer the stiffer chassis of a 36 or Lyrik so I'm not currently planning on fixing the CSU issue.
> 
> I'm 6ft 1" and 170lbs (75ish kg) and I ride natural wooded trails in NE Scotland which are pretty steep and techy in places with lots of fast rock and root strewn sections. I'm more of a wheels on the ground rider but don't mind the odd drop-off or jump. Bike is a Bird AM9 with a Marzocchi Bomber coil and I'll be running whatever fork I get at 170mm. I'm hoping for less arm pump in the gnar and a bit more mid-stroke consistency.
> 
> ...


Hi Pablo I'm from Glasgow but tend to travel north to ride natural rooty trails. mezzer tracks very well and I'm really happy with the damping and air spring so far. It does require a bit of tinkering (I'm still doing it after a couple of rides). I bought mine from starbike but was early fork someone else above bought one recently from the same place and got new lowers (but a knackered stanchion). Can't comment on the Onxy or helm.

Why are you changing from the coil?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

yetiman71 said:


> Cheers for the quick reply. An Avy damper is still a consideration but it's the most expensive option and also not the quickest to get delivered. I looked at other options like the HC97 etc but they are pretty expensive and I wasn't sure if they would give me the improvements I'm looking for.
> 
> I don't mind tinkering with suspension (I've spent years riding Avy and Push stuff and quite like the geek) so that doesn't put me off.


HC97 not worth it IMO. I had it. 
If you're gonna upgrade the Lyrik you have, go with the Ava. Another option is DSD...they can rework the damper for your weight, travel, and ride style. Only downside is you have to send them either the damper or the fork. Their Runt is pretty cool and uses same concept as the Mezzer IRT

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

It seems that in the UK, we can't have supergliss or Slickoleum!

In the state's, Slickoleum seems to be $24.30 for 15 Oz. In the UK, we can have 16 Oz of slick honey for £40, which is just over $50. SRAM butter is £10 for an Oz. That makes is $200 for that $24.30 tub. Although the German mail order sites have supergliss, it seems they can't get Slickoleum either.

I don't might getting the right stuff and I accept there's a "hobby tax" for most of this stuff, but there has to be a line somewhere.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> It seems that in the UK, we can't have supergliss or Slickoleum!
> 
> In the state's, Slickoleum seems to be $24.30 for 15 Oz. In the UK, we can have 16 Oz of slick honey for £40, which is just over $50. SRAM butter is £10 for an Oz. That makes is $200 for that $24.30 tub. Although the German mail order sites have supergliss, it seems they can't get Slickoleum either.
> 
> I don't might getting the right stuff and I accept there's a "hobby tax" for most of this stuff, but there has to be a line somewhere.


I got supergliss from Ze germans -bike-components.de

been using stendec easy glide on my forks for years. 150ml tub is still going strong.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I've still got quite a bit of Fox 20wt gold and some loctite Superlube so I'll stick with those for the time being. I'm surprised no one imports either into the UK.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Buzzys is slickoleum. I have no idea why you guys cant get "slickoleum" branded stuff, but can get buzzys. Weird.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buzzys-Sli...N80ZTDDAJ92&psc=1&refRID=QYDP9YRSJN80ZTDDAJ92

I agree that its a stupid price, but thats pretty close to a lifetime of grease.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

In hindsight, my existing grease of choice

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SUPER-LUBE-85G-2105011-LOCTITE/dp/B01186U64Y

Isn't any cheaper.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

yetiman71 said:


> Hey all&#8230;.I've just been reading through this thread as the Mezzer is on my shortlist for a new LT 29er fork, along with a Helm air and DVO Onyx SC. All three are similarly priced. I currently have a 2019 Lyrik RC2 (Charger 2) bought last year to replace a 2014 Avalanche Pike which has a knackered CSU. The Lyrik has failed to impress me with a firm over-damped feel and inconsistent performance (riding the Avalanche Pike for 5 years has spoiled me I think) so I'm now looking at options for either a new damper assy for the Lyrik or a new fork. While I love the Avy Pike I do prefer the stiffer chassis of a 36 or Lyrik so I'm not currently planning on fixing the CSU issue.
> 
> I'm 6ft 1" and 170lbs (75ish kg) and I ride natural wooded trails in NE Scotland which are pretty steep and techy in places with lots of fast rock and root strewn sections. I'm more of a wheels on the ground rider but don't mind the odd drop-off or jump. Bike is a Bird AM9 with a Marzocchi Bomber coil and I'll be running whatever fork I get at 170mm. I'm hoping for less arm pump in the gnar and a bit more mid-stroke consistency.
> 
> ...


starbike , bike24 and bike-discount they all have latest version and superb customer service , with 75 kg mezzer will be just fine , I am 70 and running the dumper less compressed but do not see that much value in it , with 75 kg and modern bike geo you will be fine with factory setting


----------



## yetiman71 (Mar 12, 2008)

POAH said:


> Hi Pablo I'm from Glasgow but tend to travel north to ride natural rooty trails. mezzer tracks very well and I'm really happy with the damping and air spring so far. It does require a bit of tinkering (I'm still doing it after a couple of rides). I bought mine from starbike but was early fork someone else above bought one recently from the same place and got new lowers (but a knackered stanchion). Can't comment on the Onxy or helm.
> 
> Why are you changing from the coil?


Hey POAH, thanks for the feedback. My old Avy Pike was pretty much fit and forget but I don't mind doing a bit of tinkering, especially if the end result is top performing fork. Regarding your question, it's a Bomber coil shock which will be staying on the bike.


----------



## yetiman71 (Mar 12, 2008)

torcha said:


> starbike , bike24 and bike-discount they all have latest version and superb customer service , with 75 kg mezzer will be just fine , I am 70 and running the dumper less compressed but do not see that much value in it , with 75 kg and modern bike geo you will be fine with factory setting


Thanks torcha, good to hear from someone lighter than myself.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Not sure if this was answered in the 8 pages. I ordered Motorex 4t 5-40 motor oil on accident instead of fork oil. Is there any issue with using this or should I order the fork specific oil?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

How much importance would people put on getting the version with the threaded ports on the back of the arch? I asked the retailer if it had them and they assured me they were the latest version. Forks have turned up today, guess what. No ports.

Worth sending them back or just take it on the chin?

Date of manufacture, 2019/06/25.
No green dot on the box.
What vintage were the ones that had issues?


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Kamkam said:


> Not sure if this was answered in the 8 pages. I ordered Motorex 4t 5-40 motor oil on accident instead of fork oil. Is there any issue with using this or should I order the fork specific oil?


assuming you're talking about bath oil, in my opinion, it would be fine. I use Mobil1 5w40 intentionally as a low-cost, readily available bath oil in all my forks. you can get it in an autoparts store for cheap. just don't get any kind of variant for high mileage or diesel engines as they could (probably do) have additives that you don't want or need.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

onzadog said:


> How much importance would people put on getting the version with the threaded ports on the back of the arch? I asked the retailer if it had them and they assured me they were the latest version. Forks have turned up today, guess what. No ports.
> 
> Worth sending them back or just take it on the chin?
> 
> ...


I don't consider the ports a big deal, it's pretty easy to service anyway. The most significant issue was the sloppy bushings and those should have all been taken care of by now. The date on mine was 07/15 and I ordered it in late December. The first ones to get in the hands of anybody here were in mid July so that is odd there would be one from June just sitting around.

Aren't you in UK? Was there somebody that mentioned a difference in the green dot method for Euro delivered forks? I ordered mine from Germany and it didn't have a green dot but it had been opened and retaped with Hayes labeled tape. The bushings have been fine so far, it works great. But I don't have as many hours on it as I would in a non-apocalyptic year. I would be confident that if there are problems Manitou would take care of you, but I don't know how that works over there, I am in the US. Sucks that the seller told you wrong, I would be squeamish in your spot too.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, I'm in the UK and ordered from Germany. I'm more concerned about having old stock with sloppy bushes than I am about the TSR valve.

If they're going to be a problem, I'd rather they went back before fitting than having to mess about taking them off and sending them away after.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

onzadog said:


> How much importance would people put on getting the version with the threaded ports on the back of the arch? I asked the retailer if it had them and they assured me they were the latest version. Forks have turned up today, guess what. No ports.
> 
> Worth sending them back or just take it on the chin?
> 
> ...


send them back , it is not only ports what is different , more important is bushing issue


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

onzadog said:


> Yes, I'm in the UK and ordered from Germany. I'm more concerned about having old stock with sloppy bushes than I am about the TSR valve.
> 
> If they're going to be a problem, I'd rather they went back before fitting than having to mess about taking them off and sending them away after.


which shop in germany?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

StarBike


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

onzadog said:


> StarBike


assholes , I have mail from them confirming that they have all of them in new version. Ok so Starbike not reliable anymore. Send it back and buy from Bike24 , I bought mine in May and have manufacture date 13/3/2020 . I have also confirmed from bike-dscount that they should be ok.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for that. Interesting to help that they've misinformed others as well.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

onzadog said:


> How much importance would people put on getting the version with the threaded ports on the back of the arch? I asked the retailer if it had them and they assured me they were the latest version. Forks have turned up today, guess what. No ports.
> 
> Worth sending them back or just take it on the chin?
> 
> ...


The RevB castings with TRP are not the only new batch of castings. There was updated RevA castings that were produced with the bushing fix that came before the RevB update. I would ride it and see how it goes.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

But with these already being a year old, I don't know if they've had the original bushing fix and/or the bottom out bumpers fix or not.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> How much importance would people put on getting the version with the threaded ports on the back of the arch? I asked the retailer if it had them and they assured me they were the latest version. Forks have turned up today, guess what. No ports.
> 
> Worth sending them back or just take it on the chin?
> 
> ...


slightly older than mine (no green dot either) and fork are fine. I honestly wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Id send it back. Struggled with sloppy mezzer twice, then gave up. Get the new one and just be happy without thoughts in ur head


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

onzadog said:


> Thanks for that. Interesting to help that they've misinformed others as well.


As others have recommended, I'd return them. First off, Starbike didn't check their stock or flat out lied. Second, if you have a (bushing) issue - how long will the warranty work take. I'm sure returning them now will take less time than repairs.


----------



## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

What about asking Manitou to run the serial # before shipping back??


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I've done that, but it seems that the great reputation manitou has for customer care only applies to those customers in the USA. I've just been bounced to the European distributor.


----------



## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

That sucks, onzadog. I would send it back.

I recently ordered from Starbike (placed order June 21), and got the updated version with the ports, and date of manufacture March 13, 2020. This was for a 29” 180mm, 44 offset.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks. Good to know I'm not being overly fussy here. Mine were 27.5" 44os.

It's also looking like the Manitou customer service is for Americans only.

Really disappointed.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> send them back , it is not only ports what is different , more important is bushing issue





onzadog said:


> But with these already being a year old, I don't know if they've had the original bushing fix and/or the bottom out bumpers fix or not.


Bushings and bumpers were sorted a long time ago and have nothing to do with the bleed ports.

If you want up to date inventory, you'd probably have to pay retail. Discount suppliers are used by the industry to clear older stock.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Dougal,
I've been checking as best I can. None of the retail forks in the UK are the latest version. It wasn't just price that made me shop at StarBike. It was the fact that other members here had received the latest fork and StarBike themselves claimed it was the latest version.

I could live without the bleed ports if I could convince myself these forks are from a time after the bushing and bump stop issue. However, these are dated June 2019. When I look back through this thread, I found a comment from one user around that date asking if anyone had ridden them yet and a reply from Dougal saying that isn't going to happen as they've not started shipping yet.

Seems like the fork they sent me was manufactured at a time before people had started finding the teething problems. While it doesn't guarantee mine will have issues, it makes them a strong candidate. That means I'll likely be trying to get them sorted sending them back to Germany after the UK has finally closed the hatch on the suicidal Brexit bubble, or leaves me trying to deal with the UK importer who hasn't got the best reputation for supporting any of the brand's they sell.

Of course, I realise I could have received the latest fork and still had a warranty issue but it does seem like those odds are greatly reduced by avoiding the very early production versions.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> Hi Dougal,
> I've been checking as best I can. None of the retail forks in the UK are the latest version. It wasn't just price that made me shop at StarBike. It was the fact that other members here had received the latest fork and StarBike themselves claimed it was the latest version.
> 
> I could live without the bleed ports if I could convince myself these forks are from a time after the bushing and bump stop issue. However, these are dated June 2019. When I look back through this thread, I found a comment from one user around that date asking if anyone had ridden them yet and a reply from Dougal saying that isn't going to happen as they've not started shipping yet.
> ...


The bushings and bump stops were fixed very early on. I had affected forks in stock and received whole new lower legs back in I think November 2019.

You can tell by pulling the lower legs. First bump stops were continuous rubber, the revised bump stops have a gap in the circle and are tensioned against the lowers.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

onzadog said:


> Hi Dougal,
> I've been checking as best I can. None of the retail forks in the UK are the latest version. It wasn't just price that made me shop at StarBike. It was the fact that other members here had received the latest fork and StarBike themselves claimed it was the latest version.
> 
> I could live without the bleed ports if I could convince myself these forks are from a time after the bushing and bump stop issue. However, these are dated June 2019. When I look back through this thread, I found a comment from one user around that date asking if anyone had ridden them yet and a reply from Dougal saying that isn't going to happen as they've not started shipping yet.
> ...


Manitou had been putting green dots on boxes for forks that they did an extra QA/QC check for the issues described. My fork had a green dot, was manufactured in 8/19, and has not had any of the issues. It does not have the bleed ports.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks Dougal. I'll check to see if they've been modified.

jcmon Ty - no green dot on these (although I don't think the same system was used in Europe) but they do seem to predatethe issues.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> Manitou had been putting green dots on boxes for forks that they did an extra QA/QC check for the issues described. My fork had a green dot, was manufactured in 8/19, and has not had any of the issues. It does not have the bleed ports.


Green dots mean hayes have changed them in their own warehouse. If anyone else changed legs there will be no green dot.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Has anyone got a spare brake hose guide? Last time I changed my lowers I neglected to transfer the guide from my old lowers to my new and threw the old lowers away.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Any advice for disassembling mezzer damper? I want to soften the shim stack, service manual doesn't explain how to disassemble it


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> You can tell by pulling the lower legs. First bump stops were continuous rubber, the revised bump stops have a gap in the circle and are tensioned against the lowers.


can you explain a bit more for an idiot like me  or a picture?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

davideb87 said:


> Any advice for disassembling mezzer damper? I want to soften the shim stack, service manual doesn't explain how to disassemble it


Are you sure its damping? Maybe too much midstroke support?


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Question regarding hydraulic bottom out. I've got 3 rides on my 160mm mezzer and have it feeling excellent. Only issue is i'm only using 130mm out of 160mm travel. If I lower it pressure in main or irt, I can get 150mm ish travel and that is expected. Didn't want to bottom out of the features I was hitting. Problem I noticed is the mezzer seemed harsher because I'm thinking that it spent more time in the part of stroke that became assisted by hydraulic bottom out.

Basically I am thinking that it might be wise for me to set it up to use only 130mm of travel and reserve that last 30mm of travel for big drops to flat? Great support, set PR's on bike park strava segments that I have between 80-100 previous rides, so not learning curve. 

Using 130mm travel was way better than my 19 Lyrik. Hitting corners at speed that I didn't know grip allowed, just smashing rocky descents, like they were paved, etc.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

If the fork feels good, performs well, and it's not slamming into the bottom out stops, it really doesn't matter how much travel it's using.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Kamkam said:


> Question regarding hydraulic bottom out. I've got 3 rides on my 160mm mezzer and have it feeling excellent. Only issue is i'm only using 130mm out of 160mm travel. If I lower it pressure in main or irt, I can get 150mm ish travel and that is expected. Didn't want to bottom out of the features I was hitting. Problem I noticed is the mezzer seemed harsher because I'm thinking that it spent more time in the part of stroke that became assisted by hydraulic bottom out.
> 
> Basically I am thinking that it might be wise for me to set it up to use only 130mm of travel and reserve that last 30mm of travel for big drops to flat? Great support, set PR's on bike park strava segments that I have between 80-100 previous rides, so not learning curve.
> 
> Using 130mm travel was way better than my 19 Lyrik. Hitting corners at speed that I didn't know grip allowed, just smashing rocky descents, like they were paved, etc.


Good to turn a couple laps with you yesterday!

One thing worth mentioning before you dive down this rabbit hole: you still hadn't opened up the IRT to check that piston for proper greasing. If that sucker is dry, the operation near bottom-out is going to be less than ideal and probably unpredictable. I'd definitely verify that before doing to much to compensate.

I think the HBO is only functioning in like the last 30mm of travel. It's pretty much impossible to be "spending time" in that range of stroke, unless your air pressures were way wrong; even on the steep chunk at Spider Mtn.

Looking at your settings in the Google Sheet, your pressure deviations from recommended don't look right. At 78 / 53, I see you as -19(IRT), -13(main).

Not sure if those were the pressures that only gave you 130mm travel. But, if they were, I'm really thinking that IRT piston is dry.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

nikon255 said:


> Are you sure its damping? Maybe too much midstroke support?


Yeah it's damping, i weight 12 kg less that last year, mezzer was comfortable and now not too much.
I opened all the compression and if feels good, but not like last year.
Pressure wise i already tried everything, it's not the spring


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

davideb87 said:


> Yeah it's damping, i weight 12 kg less that last year, mezzer was comfortable and now not too much.
> I opened all the compression and if feels good, but not like last year.
> Pressure wise i already tried everything, it's not the spring


What do you weigh now?

Before you went through the trouble of modifying the shim stack, it would be worth posting your setup information. It may feel like you have tried everything, but in reality that's not likely. If you put your data in here, you could get some extra eyes on it to find a solution: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPnh-oYncla19GutzWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> Good to turn a couple laps with you yesterday!
> 
> One thing worth mentioning before you dive down this rabbit hole: you still hadn't opened up the IRT to check that piston for proper greasing. If that sucker is dry, the operation near bottom-out is going to be less than ideal and probably unpredictable. I'd definitely verify that before doing to much to compensate.
> 
> ...


Good riding a few laps with you as well. Unfortunately its going to be a day or two until I can get into that IRT piston due to me waiting on a new cassette ring socket. I'll be sure to update here if it was dry, or properly lubed.

I am -8 main and -12 IRT at the moment. When I went lower is when I used 150mm of travel, but fork was harsher. Not sure what those numbers are below my settings.

Granted with the exception of the double black, no real drops at spider, and i nailed all the table tops so I didn't case anything that might have elicited near bottom out. Feeling balanced front and rear and using 130 already miles ahead of my Lyrik.

Curious what percent of travel most here are using. Usually 5ish foot drops are the biggest drops to flat I do. I have a 4 foot drop to flat I always land poorly on that I will ride in the next few hours to see how much travel I use.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I stuck those numbers below yours to calculate the difference between your pressures and the guide.

It says you are 200lbs and 160mm travel. Is that right?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> Any advice for disassembling mezzer damper? I want to soften the shim stack, service manual doesn't explain how to disassemble it


Take the lower tube off. Upper collar and base-valve piston is held on by the HBO cup which uses an internal 6mm hex key. Undo that.

Thread the tube back on by hand and use it to wiggle the lower bladder connector off.
Now base-valve piston should just come out after the check spring and shim.

I suggest removing one of the two middle shims and running that. This will put you a little softer than the compression tune I run.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kamkam said:


> Question regarding hydraulic bottom out. I've got 3 rides on my 160mm mezzer and have it feeling excellent. Only issue is i'm only using 130mm out of 160mm travel. If I lower it pressure in main or irt, I can get 150mm ish travel and that is expected. Didn't want to bottom out of the features I was hitting. Problem I noticed is the mezzer seemed harsher because I'm thinking that it spent more time in the part of stroke that became assisted by hydraulic bottom out.
> 
> Basically I am thinking that it might be wise for me to set it up to use only 130mm of travel and reserve that last 30mm of travel for big drops to flat? Great support, set PR's on bike park strava segments that I have between 80-100 previous rides, so not learning curve.
> 
> Using 130mm travel was way better than my 19 Lyrik. Hitting corners at speed that I didn't know grip allowed, just smashing rocky descents, like they were paved, etc.


HBO is the last 20mm. So you're likely riding up against spring progression and damping. One or both is more than you likely need.

What is your weight and pressures?


----------



## Alpenglow (Feb 5, 2004)

Does anyone have a photo of the Bleed ports on back of the arch? I got my for a couple of months ago from Dirt Merchant, but the manufacturer date is Aug 25 2019. I did have green dots on box though.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> I stuck those numbers below yours to calculate the difference between your pressures and the guide.
> 
> It says you are 200lbs and 160mm travel. Is that right?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Gotcha. Yeah 200lbs at 160mm travel.

Just did a quick ride at 50 main, 80 irt, 6 from closed rebound, 3 from closed lsc, 3 from closed hsc. Felt good, biggest feature was 2 4ish foot drops that i landed as nose heavy as I could safely do, and only got 140mm travel. I am just going to keep my setting until I can pop out my IRT and if its greased, not sure if I want to lower pressures anymore to try to get more travel. Really liking how it rides. FWIW my pump is a digital pump and measures within 1 psi from my shockwiz.

BTW you are stupid fast on your "XC" bike.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kamkam said:


> Gotcha. Yeah 200lbs at 160mm travel.
> 
> Just did a quick ride at 50 main, 80 irt, 6 from closed rebound, 3 from closed lsc, 3 from closed hsc. Felt good, biggest feature was 2 4ish foot drops that i landed as nose heavy as I could safely do, and only got 140mm travel. I am just going to keep my setting until I can pop out my IRT and if its greased, not sure if I want to lower pressures anymore to try to get more travel. Really liking how it rides. FWIW my pump is a digital pump and measures within 1 psi from my shockwiz.
> 
> BTW you are stupid fast on your "XC" bike.


Is the fork pulled to full height when you remove the pump? If not you can lose travel and not know.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Is the fork pulled to full height when you remove the pump? If not you can lose travel and not know.


yes fork is pulled to extension before taking pump off main chamber.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Take the lower tube off. Upper collar and base-valve piston is held on by the HBO cup which uses an internal 6mm hex key. Undo that.
> 
> Thread the tube back on by hand and use it to wiggle the lower bladder connector off.
> Now base-valve piston should just come out after the check spring and shim.
> ...


Thank you!!


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> What do you weigh now?
> 
> Before you went through the trouble of modifying the shim stack, it would be worth posting your setup information. It may feel like you have tried everything, but in reality that's not likely. If you put your data in here, you could get some extra eyes on it to find a solution: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPnh-oYncla19GutzWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit?usp=sharing


Yeah i tried everything, the best compromise for my actual weight which is 72 kg is main 47 psi and IRT 75 psi, both compression full open, rebound i didn't count it i will check.
The problem is that when i was 84 kg last year the fork was a lot more comfortable, and i have done a fresh service too


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Kamkam said:


> Gotcha. Yeah 200lbs at 160mm travel.
> 
> Just did a quick ride at 50 main, 80 irt, 6 from closed rebound, 3 from closed lsc, 3 from closed hsc. Felt good, biggest feature was 2 4ish foot drops that i landed as nose heavy as I could safely do, and only got 140mm travel. I am just going to keep my setting until I can pop out my IRT and if its greased, not sure if I want to lower pressures anymore to try to get more travel. Really liking how it rides. FWIW my pump is a digital pump and measures within 1 psi from my shockwiz.
> 
> BTW you are stupid fast on your "XC" bike.


Thanks man! You were really charging through lower Viper's Den. I got some video of that.

I agree in not dropping pressures further. I really think your IRT piston is going to be fairly dry.

Also, it sounds like you are measuring up from the dust seal to the o-ring, but just in case you were measuring top down... bottom out is a decent distance away from the crown, especially on the outside (because of the taper). A little piece of label tape is a great visual reference.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

davideb87 said:


> Yeah i tried everything, the best compromise for my actual weight which is 72 kg is main 47 psi and IRT 75 psi, both compression full open, rebound i didn't count it i will check.
> The problem is that when i was 84 kg last year the fork was a lot more comfortable, and i have done a fresh service too


I'm 71 kg, and currently running 43 / 82, with HSC open and LSC 1 click out from closed. The fork feels super plush to me. Have you tried going that low on your main pressure?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> I'm 71 kg, and currently running 43 / 82, with HSC open and LSC 1 click out from closed. The fork feels super plush to me. Have you tried going that low on your main pressure?


Never went that low, maybe i will give it a try


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

davideb87 said:


> Never went that low, maybe i will give it a try


I forget if you mentioned what travel you are running. I'm at 140mm, which would be the highest pressure, so if you are higher travel, you could run even lower pressure. This nets me about 23% sag, so definitely not excessive. See how it feels.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> Thanks man! You were really charging through lower Viper's Den. I got some video of that.
> 
> I agree in not dropping pressures further. I really think your IRT piston is going to be fairly dry.
> 
> Also, it sounds like you are measuring up from the dust seal to the o-ring, but just in case you were measuring top down... bottom out is a decent distance away from the crown, especially on the outside (because of the taper). A little piece of label tape is a great visual reference.


I am measuring from dust seal. At full bottom out there is 10mm of exposed stanchion. I backed of HSC to 4 clicks out from closed and LSC 3 and running 53 main 80 irt and got 145mm travel on biggest hit. I'm gonna call that good because that's 90% travel. I think I'm just used to too much compression damping. Really different feel from Lyrik.

I set a PR on the bottom of Viper's Den the following run lol. Set 5 PR's this weekend on the Mezzer at Spider Mountain that I have atleast 80 runs on each segment. So no learning curve and that is super impressive since I set my lyrik up by stopwatch and composure with complete disregard to comfort. So far the Mezzer has blown the lyrik out of the water in every category and have PR's to prove the performance aspect.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Kamkam said:


> I am measuring from dust seal. At full bottom out there is 10mm of exposed stanchion. I backed of HSC to 4 clicks out from closed and LSC 3 and running 53 main 80 irt and got 145mm travel on biggest hit. I'm gonna call that good because that's 90% travel. I think I'm just used to too much compression damping. Really different feel from Lyrik.
> 
> I set a PR on the bottom of Viper's Den the following run lol. Set 5 PR's this weekend on the Mezzer at Spider Mountain that I have atleast 80 runs on each segment. So no learning curve and that is super impressive since I set my lyrik up by stopwatch and composure with complete disregard to comfort. So far the Mezzer has blown the lyrik out of the water in every category and have PR's to prove the performance aspect.


You can't ask for much more than that!

That was my third time out to Spider Mountain, and not since February before the **** hit the fan. Even since February, the trails have changed. A lot of the berms have some chunks missing, erosion has made chunk a little bigger, and there is more loose dust blanketing. The ground is like concrete right now. My new Michelin Wild Enduro front gripped impressively.

Let us know how the IRT looks.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Kamkam said:


> I am measuring from dust seal. At full bottom out there is 10mm of exposed stanchion. I backed of HSC to 4 clicks out from closed and LSC 3 and running 53 main 80 irt and got 145mm travel on biggest hit. I'm gonna call that good because that's 90% travel. I think I'm just used to too much compression damping. Really different feel from Lyrik.
> 
> I set a PR on the bottom of Viper's Den the following run lol. Set 5 PR's this weekend on the Mezzer at Spider Mountain that I have atleast 80 runs on each segment. So no learning curve and that is super impressive since I set my lyrik up by stopwatch and composure with complete disregard to comfort. So far the Mezzer has blown the lyrik out of the water in every category and have PR's to prove the performance aspect.


I really like this sort of objective measure of improvements. Thx for sharing.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Kamkam said:


> I am measuring from dust seal. At full bottom out there is 10mm of exposed stanchion. I backed of HSC to 4 clicks out from closed and LSC 3 and running 53 main 80 irt and got 145mm travel on biggest hit. I'm gonna call that good because that's 90% travel. I think I'm just used to too much compression damping. Really different feel from Lyrik.
> 
> I set a PR on the bottom of Viper's Den the following run lol. Set 5 PR's this weekend on the Mezzer at Spider Mountain that I have atleast 80 runs on each segment.  So no learning curve and that is super impressive since I set my lyrik up by stopwatch and composure with complete disregard to comfort. So far the Mezzer has blown the lyrik out of the water in every category and have PR's to prove the performance aspect.


Hey, this my new FB buddy with the Evolink? Glad to see ya on here if so. 
The Mezzer really a completely different beast from any fork I've had before.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> I really like this sort of objective measure of improvements. Thx for sharing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I am fortunate that I have a bike park within an hour of me that I can test setups against the clock without having my fitness level at the time play a role. Usually most PR's at the park are set in October because that is our rainy season and the trail remains smooth with tacky soil. As CCS86 stated, the trails are blown out with alot of holes and ad mid 90s temps only make the PR's more impressive. On one segment which my prior PR was 50 sec I beat it by 11 sec for a time of 39 seconds. I was able to make most of that time by just full throttle through a rocky section that I used to have to tip toe down. I had that much composure whether due to the IRT or the stiffness. Don't care, clock doesn't lie.

I have tried many setups and felt they were improvements, but failed to show anything against the clock, most notably cushcore. I swear they improve steering response and maintain momentum better and I have netted PR's on trails, but nothing on the more objective bike park. I still use them because the steering response and cornering make the bike far more agile.

And Th3Bill, yup, I'm the dude with the school bus yellow evolink, that you peer pressured into getting the Mezzer over the avalanche cartridge. Just sold lyrik today, so the Mezzer ended up being about 100 bucks cheaper than going the avy cartridge.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Kamkam said:


> I am fortunate that I have a bike park within an hour of me that I can test setups against the clock without having my fitness level at the time play a role. Usually most PR's at the park are set in October because that is our rainy season and the trail remains smooth with tacky soil. As CCS86 stated, the trails are blown out with alot of holes and ad mid 90s temps only make the PR's more impressive. On one segment which my prior PR was 50 sec I beat it by 11 sec for a time of 39 seconds. I was able to make most of that time by just full throttle through a rocky section that I used to have to tip toe down. I had that much composure whether due to the IRT or the stiffness. Don't care, clock doesn't lie.
> 
> I have tried many setups and felt they were improvements, but failed to show anything against the clock, most notably cushcore. I swear they improve steering response and maintain momentum better and I have netted PR's on trails, but nothing on the more objective bike park. I still use them because the steering response and cornering make the bike far more agile.
> 
> And Th3Bill, yup, I'm the dude with the school bus yellow evolink, that you peer pressured into getting the Mezzer over the avalanche cartridge. Just sold lyrik today, so the Mezzer ended up being about 100 bucks cheaper than going the avy cartridge.


Nice! Not a bad investment on the bike. Any time you go 100 bucks out of pocket and massively improve your bikes performance, you know it's a good hit. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Kamkam said:


> I am fortunate that I have a bike park within an hour of me that I can test setups against the clock without having my fitness level at the time play a role. Usually most PR's at the park are set in October because that is our rainy season and the trail remains smooth with tacky soil. As CCS86 stated, the trails are blown out with alot of holes and ad mid 90s temps only make the PR's more impressive. On one segment which my prior PR was 50 sec I beat it by 11 sec for a time of 39 seconds. I was able to make most of that time by just full throttle through a rocky section that I used to have to tip toe down. I had that much composure whether due to the IRT or the stiffness. Don't care, clock doesn't lie.
> 
> I have tried many setups and felt they were improvements, but failed to show anything against the clock, most notably cushcore. I swear they improve steering response and maintain momentum better and I have netted PR's on trails, but nothing on the more objective bike park. I still use them because the steering response and cornering make the bike far more agile.
> 
> And Th3Bill, yup, I'm the dude with the school bus yellow evolink, that you peer pressured into getting the Mezzer over the avalanche cartridge. Just sold lyrik today, so the Mezzer ended up being about 100 bucks cheaper than going the avy cartridge.


Yes, pretty sure you and I chatted at Travis Country once, I'm on a blue Mondraker.
I'm running a '19 Yari that was a new take off ($380 shipped) with an Avy cartridge, Torque Caps, Pushed seals, and the stiffer Oneup axle and it all works very well even though I wouldn't call it comfortable. I run it as a 150 travel because I like the geo a bit steeper but it's much harsher this way. Just kicking around trying something different and the Mezzer looks really good.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> Yes, pretty sure you and I chatted at Travis Country once, I'm on a blue Mondraker.
> I'm running a '19 Yari that was a new take off ($380 shipped) with an Avy cartridge, Torque Caps, Pushed seals, and the stiffer Oneup axle and it all works very well even though I wouldn't call it comfortable. I run it as a 150 travel because I like the geo a bit steeper but it's much harsher this way. Just kicking around trying something different and the Mezzer looks really good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Sorry, I don't remember talking to anyone with a mondraker, and only ridden brushy creek a few times. Although if you remember a dude with a yellow evolink it was likely me, as not aware of any other ones in Texas. But if you are near my height and weight range, I am always willing to let anyone ride my bike. So feel free to hit me up to ride together, if you wanna see how the mezzer feels.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Couple Mezzers on the trail:


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

CCS86 said:


> Couple Mezzers on the trail:


Nice! Good looking trail there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Take the lower tube off. Upper collar and base-valve piston is held on by the HBO cup which uses an internal 6mm hex key. Undo that.
> 
> Thread the tube back on by hand and use it to wiggle the lower bladder connector off.
> Now base-valve piston should just come out after the check spring and shim.
> ...


It was a pain in the a$$ to remove the lower tube from the top assembly, like it was in the mattoc, but i did it with the classic tire tube wrapped around.
I removed one 17.5 mm shim and bled the damper, it does a lot of noise but i guess it's the shims right? Didn't cycle it before the job unfortunately, so i can't compare it with the original noise.
I tried the clicks with all setting closed and both in compression and rebound it stiffens the damper a lot, so i guess i did a fine job.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

davideb87 said:


> It was a pain in the a$$ to remove the lower tube from the top assembly, like it was in the mattoc, but i did it with the classic tire tube wrapped around.
> I removed one 17.5 mm shim and bled the damper, it does a lot of noise but i guess it's the shims right? Didn't cycle it before the job unfortunately, so i can't compare it with the original noise.
> I tried the clicks with all setting closed and both in compression and rebound it stiffens the damper a lot, so i guess i did a fine job.


lot of noise could be some air in the damper, I had to rebleed once too


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

torcha said:


> lot of noise could be some air in the damper, I had to rebleed once too


Yeah It could be, my plastic syringes clamps don't actually clamp anything, when i clamp the tubes to cycle the damper the oil can freely pass on the syringe. Maybe some bubbles are still present between some narrow passage, this happens with cheap instruments. 
At least the regulations work, but will rebleed again later


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> It was a pain in the a$$ to remove the lower tube from the top assembly, like it was in the mattoc, but i did it with the classic tire tube wrapped around.
> I removed one 17.5 mm shim and bled the damper, it does a lot of noise but i guess it's the shims right? Didn't cycle it before the job unfortunately, so i can't compare it with the original noise.
> I tried the clicks with all setting closed and both in compression and rebound it stiffens the damper a lot, so i guess i did a fine job.


Softer shim stacks can make more noise and different oils make different amounts of noise. If it feels good, ride it. You can always rebleed later.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Softer shim stacks can make more noise and different oils make different amounts of noise. If it feels good, ride it. You can always rebleed later.


Yes it seems good by cycling it, i used motorex 2.5
Thanks again


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So I've ordered a Mezzer that should be here tomorrow. After reading eveything on here I am both excited and nervous at the same time. I was between a 2021 Lyrik ultimate and the Mezzer and ended up with the Mezzer since Hayes put it on sale.

I have a few questions:
1. Has anyone ordered one of these from Jenson recently? I seem to have gotten the last 160mm 29er they had and I'm praying that it is the revised version.
2. Best shock pump to use for the incremental PSI changes this fork needs?
3. Anything I should look out for when I first get it?

I'm coming from a problematic DVO Diamond and really want to get this thing off my bike so I can happily ride again, so I'm praying that Jenson is sending me the revised version.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

megablue said:


> So I've ordered a Mezzer that should be here tomorrow. After reading eveything on here I am both excited and nervous at the same time. I was between a 2021 Lyrik ultimate and the Mezzer and ended up with the Mezzer since Hayes put it on sale.
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 1. Has anyone ordered one of these from Jenson recently? I seem to have gotten the last 160mm 29er they had and I'm praying that it is the revised version.
> ...


Pretty sure that's a newer one, as Jenson was out of them about a month and a half ago if I recall. Not 100% sure. I got mine from Worldwide and it isn't the absolute newest one, but I think is corrected from the bushing issue that the first had.
I use a Fox digital pump for mine. As far as pressures, most of us run less than the Manitou setup guide from what I've seen. 
As far as what to look for, most people here seem to have dropped the lower legs and added oil, as it seems the lowers tend to be a tad short out of the box. Compared to a Diamond (which I had and was my second favorite fork to this one-I had a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate and never got it to feel just right), this is really a different level fork.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> Pretty sure that's a newer one, as Jenson was out of them about a month and a half ago if I recall. Not 100% sure. I got mine from Worldwide and it isn't the absolute newest one, but I think is corrected from the bushing issue that the first had.
> I use a Fox digital pump for mine. As far as pressures, most of us run less than the Manitou setup guide from what I've seen.
> As far as what to look for, most people here seem to have dropped the lower legs and added oil, as it seems the lowers tend to be a tad short out of the box. Compared to a Diamond (which I had and was my second favorite fork to this one-I had a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate and never got it to feel just right), this is really a different level fork.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome. I actually ordered one directly from Hayes but I've heard their shipping isn't the fastest and Jenson offered to price match and give me free 2 day shipping so I couldn't say no. I hope it is, as I'm very tired of this diamond and want it gone sooner rather than later.

I got unlucky with my diamond. The onyx SC I had on my previous bike was incredible. But I'm frustrated because half of the reason I bought my ripmo AF was because of the stock DVO suspension. DVO has amazing customer service though and I'm sure they will give me a new diamond so I'll have something to throw on the girlfriends bike once it gets back.

I'll keep an eye out for that then. What oil weight does it take? Guess I'll need to order some. Any good reference online that shows how to do oil changes and all that?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

megablue said:


> Awesome. I actually ordered one directly from Hayes but I've heard their shipping isn't the fastest and Jenson offered to price match and give me free 2 day shipping so I couldn't say no. I hope it is, as I'm very tired of this diamond and want it gone sooner rather than later.
> 
> I got unlucky with my diamond. The onyx SC I had on my previous bike was incredible. But I'm frustrated because half of the reason I bought my ripmo AF was because of the stock DVO suspension. DVO has amazing customer service though and I'm sure they will give me a new diamond so I'll have something to throw on the girlfriends bike once it gets back.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out for that then. What oil weight does it take? Guess I'll need to order some. Any good reference online that shows how to do oil changes and all that?


Manitou semi bath is what I used. It's relatively inexpensive and I think Amazon carries it even. I'm sure there are some other oils that could be used, but I figured why not use the original stuff.
Manitou website under service tab has the complete guide to do the lower service. Takes no special tools to remove legs. Only need a modified cassette tool to remove the air pistons. Takes maybe 10 minutes to do.
I got Worldwide to match Jenson when I bought mine. I've bought a lot from both companies and they seem to both have very good customer service. I had gift cards from reviews I'd done, so it made the Mezzer even more affordable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

megablue said:


> Awesome. I actually ordered one directly from Hayes but I've heard their shipping isn't the fastest and Jenson offered to price match and give me free 2 day shipping so I couldn't say no.


I've found Hayes shipping to be very fast, definitely faster than most online vendors. But I like Jenson and they are cool with price matches. (Thanks Meg!)

The main thing I would check is the IRT chamber, it's simple to check, easy to lube and the one thing really needed attention on mine. I didn't measure the factory fill of bath oil but there was plenty in both legs.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

What's given me pause is the possibility that with the fork being on sale everywhere, it makes me suspect another update is on the way. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I've not seen the prices drop in the UK or Germany, they seem to have been at this level a while. I'm hearing that we should get the new casting with bleed ports around October. It seems like that revision hadn't really taken hold yet so maybe that's what it's about.


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

yetiman71 said:


> Hey all&#8230;.I've just been reading through this thread as the Mezzer is on my shortlist for a new LT 29er fork, along with a Helm air and DVO Onyx SC. All three are similarly priced. I currently have a 2019 Lyrik RC2 (Charger 2) bought last year to replace a 2014 Avalanche Pike which has a knackered CSU. The Lyrik has failed to impress me with a firm over-damped feel and inconsistent performance (riding the Avalanche Pike for 5 years has spoiled me I think) so I'm now looking at options for either a new damper assy for the Lyrik or a new fork. While I love the Avy Pike I do prefer the stiffer chassis of a 36 or Lyrik so I'm not currently planning on fixing the CSU issue.
> 
> I'm 6ft 1" and 170lbs (75ish kg) and I ride natural wooded trails in NE Scotland which are pretty steep and techy in places with lots of fast rock and root strewn sections. I'm more of a wheels on the ground rider but don't mind the odd drop-off or jump. Bike is a Bird AM9 with a Marzocchi Bomber coil and I'll be running whatever fork I get at 170mm. I'm hoping for less arm pump in the gnar and a bit more mid-stroke consistency.
> 
> ...


I asked a few shops - most of them haven't been aware that there changed anything 

I got 29"/44OS from a very small shop with the latest updates. The big ones do not know what they have in stock...

If you like the stiffness of the Lyrik you'll love the Mezzer. It feels so much more defined. Moreover, it performs better und heavy attack because of less flex -> less friction
I also have a Lyrik (OK, Yari) with a Tuning Damping cartridge (MST) and a second positive air chamber like the IRT (AWK by Chickadeehill) and didn't expect a great performance boost - but the Mezzer is next level...

For the Onyx you maybe get a very similar behavior to the Diamond. Air spring sounds the same (OTT), damping has extra feature with the quick range for the low speed and it will be a little bit stiffer. However, who knows... Mezzer sounds also the same and is different to the Mattoc


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> What's given me pause is the possibility that with the fork being on sale everywhere, it makes me suspect another update is on the way.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


This forum is all over the updates already:
Bleed/Fill screws, individual stickers (no more wrinkles) and a softer tune (one less shim).


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Some of you may remember me posting about the forks I received from StarBike after having them confirm that the fork had the revised casting. The fork turned up with the original casting and a manufacturing date of 2019/6/25 which predates the first deliveries to retailers.

I thought I'd feedback the response I've had from StarBike as I think it's pretty fair (if not quite complete)

They've said that the German importer doesn't yet have the latest version and that the majority of forks they've sold date back to middle of last year. They have however, apologised for the misinformation and given me the two following options.

1) a small discount on the price I paid and a promise to cover return postage should any warranty issues arise.
2) a returns label for the fork and a refund after return and inspection.

As there's still the possibility these forks are going back, I've not opened them up to check for the bumped mod. I remember Dougal saying he was getting replacement castings around November so 5 months after these were manufactured. I've had no response from Manitou Europe as to whether they have been modifying warehouse stock like they did in the US.

I know that not everyone with early forks had issues, but clearly it was a significant enough issue that new casting were sent out and warehouse stock reworked.

A bit more transparency on the issue would really help with customer confidence.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Well I do not think they are being honest about German importer, as I said before I bought my fork at bike24.com in May and have manufacture date 20/3/2020. 


onzadog said:


> Some of you may remember me posting about the forks I received from StarBike after having them confirm that the fork had the revised casting. The fork turned up with the original casting and a manufacturing date of 2019/6/25 which predates the first deliveries to retailers.
> 
> I thought I'd feedback the response I've had from StarBike as I think it's pretty fair (if not quite complete)
> 
> ...


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

I said I would update this thread, once I pulled my IRT out. Finally got the correct cassette ring socket, park FR 5.2. IRT was well greased. 

I also was likely running too much compression damping, limiting travel. Use about 145mm on the trail/bike park and can even go through hydraulic bottom out and reach 160mm somehow on my little 3 foot kicker to flat. Weird that this little jump to flat will use all travel but bigger drops and jumps don't. LSC seems to have a decent effect on travel usage on drops and jumps. Never noticed that with lyrik.

160mm Mezzer 200lbs rider on large pole evolink. Main 55ish PSI, IRT 83ish PSI.
Still working on compression damping, since LSC, and HSC effects are a little different than I'm used to coming from a lyrik. I am probably 90% to perfection though, and comparing the mezzer to lyrik performance isn't even a fair matchup. Like others have mentioned, it is really sensitive to changes of 2 psi particularly in the main. A digital pump is a must. I have been updating my settings regularly on the google sheet. 

I'm confident if one just put the adjusters midway of the setup sheet and just set air pressures, I believe they will be super happy of the performance over a lyrik/36. I do not believe you need to have a full understanding of suspension to make this fork perform. Seems to have a wide range of good performance, but has the adjustment to really get the characteristics you want.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So when Manitou fixed the old stock in the US did they change the lowers out too? I got mine in from Jenson today with a manufacture date of 8/27/2019. However, the label did have a green dot. When I pulled them out they have the updated lowers with the bleed ports which surprised me. There is a bit of oil on the stanchions near the dust seals which I guess is just from it sitting


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

yes, manitou changed out most of the stock with updated lowers. The oil on stanchion is nothing to worry about.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Sounds like you guys really are getting better looked after than us over the pond.

As I understand it, the bleed ports didn't come about until May this year. If you've got bleed ports on one from August last year, Hayes must have swapped the casting over in the warehouse.


----------



## TerryLM (Jan 14, 2006)

*29er/44 offset*

Manitou now has 29er/44 offset (160) in stock. I have been checking the website just about every day since mid May to get one of these. When I had a DH bike it had a Dorado and it was the best fork I have had. I'm so stoked to be able to have the same performance on my trail bike.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Velodonata said:


> The main thing I would check is the IRT chamber, it's simple to check, easy to lube and the one thing really needed attention on mine. I didn't measure the factory fill of bath oil but there was plenty in both legs.


I think(?) I've read in this thread about putting oil inside both the air spring and IRT assemblies, in addition to grease.

Is this the case, or should I only use grease (Slickoleum) as per the manual?

I've also got a Mezzer incoming, and want to do a «0 hour service» as good as possible ?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Lol of course they come back in stock now. My bike was made for a 44 offset but will run fine with a 51. I was waiting for the 44 and when I asked Manitou they said it would be in stock on the 17th, then on the 17th I called and they told me it would be another month and they wouldn't be able to offer the sale price. Oh well...


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

langen said:


> I think(?) I've read in this thread about putting oil inside both the air spring and IRT assemblies, in addition to grease.
> 
> Is this the case, or should I only use grease (Slickoleum) as per the manual?
> 
> I've also got a Mezzer incoming, and want to do a «0 hour service» as good as possible 


IRT and air spring just need Slickoleum everywhere, foam rings get soaked in bath oil, wipe the seals with it and then the lower legs each get their 21cc of bath oil fill.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

On my last service, I skipped the slickoleum on the dust seals and just used bath oil (foam rings saturated in Supergliss). No noticeable increase in friction.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Did WWC let the cat out of the bag? I haven't seen a product launch or listing from Hayes on this:

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...9-160-mm-15-x-110-mm-44-mm-offset-matte-black


----------



## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

CCS86 said:


> Did WWC let the cat out of the bag? I haven't seen a product launch or listing from Hayes on this:
> 
> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...9-160-mm-15-x-110-mm-44-mm-offset-matte-black


Thats awesome news! Since its an "expert" and not a "comp" can we expect the chassis to be the same as the pro? Would the IVA be upgradeable to IRT assuming the stanchion inner diameters are the same? But lack of low speed compression seems to be a glaring omission.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GuitsBoy said:


> Thats awesome news! Since its an "expert" and not a "comp" can we expect the chassis to be the same as the pro? Would the IVA be upgradeable to IRT assuming the stanchion inner diameters are the same? But lack of low speed compression seems to be a glaring omission.


I wouldn't call it a glaring omission. If it ends up with the same chassis, and had adjusters for HSC and LSC, how would it be differentiated from the Pro? Just IVA / IRT isn't quite enough to justify a different model.


----------



## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

CCS86 said:


> I wouldn't call it a glaring omission. If it ends up with the same chassis, and had adjusters for HSC and LSC, how would it be differentiated from the Pro? Just IVA / IRT isn't quite enough to justify a different model.


Given the choice, Id prefer external LSC control over HSC any day.

I assumed a different non-bladder damper on par with the TPC+, lesser rebound damping, as well a hundred of so more grams from the damper and oil differences. Similar to how the mattoc expert was nestled between the comp and the pro.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Did WWC let the cat out of the bag? I haven't seen a product launch or listing from Hayes on this:
> 
> https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...9-160-mm-15-x-110-mm-44-mm-offset-matte-black


It looks like someone has mixed up Mezzer and R7 Expert specs.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I certainly hope Manitou doesn't waste its time creating a whole lineup of Mezzer models. 

I'd rather they just focus on production and bring the cost down. Compared to the Zeb and 38, the Mezzer is cheap, and if they could get it down to under 36 and Lyrik pricing they'd win a lot of converts - and already have. 

A coil Mezzer might be cool, though.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.

I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> It looks like someone has mixed up Mezzer and R7 Expert specs.


Maybe so...

...but, the photos on WWC are clearly Mezzer, not an R7 (matte crown vs gloss, Mezzer sticker, smaller rebound knob). And maybe I'm wrong, but the compression adjuster does not look like my Mezzer Pro (appears to be lacking the red LSC adjuster entirely... which would match the spec)

Thoughts?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cassieno said:


> What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.
> 
> I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


The Mezzer works great at 140mm.

I personally will never throw money and effort at an expensive Rockshox product again, trying to make it what it should have been to begin with. Your call.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

cassieno said:


> What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.
> 
> I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


Well, if you're talking a new Lyrik, depending on model, going Mezzer at its current prices (around 800 bucks), you're saving buying a roughly 900 dollar fork and putting 500 more into it with the Ava cart.
Now, I can't speak to how the Ava works on the Lyrik, but I can say that my Mezzer works better than the Lyrik did with the HC97 from push AND the DSD Runt (secondary positive chamber similar to Manitou IRT) or the Coil kit by Vorsprung. I tossed nearly the same amount of $ at it as the purchase price of the Lyrik and still felt it wasn't how I wanted it
Mezzer us lighter and stiffer and has a superior axle system (IMO).
It also has a great group of people on here who are experienced with tuning and are willing to answer questions and provide guidance. Last time I was on a Lyrik thread, it turned into a "let's bash Dougal because he doesn't fancy The HC97". The group here truly try to help each other from what I've seen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

PHeller said:


> I certainly hope Manitou doesn't waste its time creating a whole lineup of Mezzer models.
> 
> I'd rather they just focus on production and bring the cost down. Compared to the Zeb and 38, the Mezzer is cheap, and if they could get it down to under 36 and Lyrik pricing they'd win a lot of converts - and already have.
> 
> A coil Mezzer might be cool, though.


I don't see why you think the value proposition is lacking. The Mezzer Pro is already at or under the cost of a Lyrik or 36 (a good bit under at the current $799 sale price). So, it's less expensive, stiffer, lighter, has better damping, and is more tuneable. I must be missing something.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

CCS86 said:


> I don't see why you think the value proposition is lacking. The Mezzer Pro is already at or under the cost of a Lyrik or 36 (a good bit under at the current $799 sale price). So, it's less expensive, stiffer, lighter, has better damping, and is more tuneable. I must be missing something.


RS and Fox clearly spend large amounts of $ marketing their product. Looks to me like Manitou spends that $ making their product work better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> RS and Fox clearly spend large amounts of $ marketing their product. Looks to me like Manitou spends that $ making their product work better.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed.

I would also guess that Fox and RS are aggressive in landing low-margin, high volume, OEM placement.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> The Mezzer works great at 140mm.
> 
> I personally will never throw money and effort at an expensive Rockshox product again, trying to make it what it should have been to begin with. Your call.


Change "Rockshox" to "Fox" and it's the same for me. Very happy with my Mezzer at 140mm.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

cassieno said:


> What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.
> 
> I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


I have no experience of the Avy cartridge, but I was about to go that route with mine. By picking up my Mezzer for 800 and selling my lyrik for 400, it came out costing me 400 instead of the 500 for avy cartridge. I can only compare it to a stock lyrik RT3 and not an avy cartidge. There is not one situation in which I think they Lyrik is better than the Mezzer. Only negative I can think of, is not being able to use a shockwiz to help tune.

I am also not one who thinks every new thing I put on my bike is magic. I smashed 5 PR's on the first weekend at the bike park and I have over 80 runs on each segment. Temps were mid 90's and track conditions were not ideal, rutted, holes, blown out, etc. It is significantly more composed than the lyric in high speed rock gardens, step downs. Cornering is more direct. I can definitely feel increased torsional stiffness at 200lbs, and my hands/arms took way less of a beating.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

cassieno said:


> What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.
> 
> I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


I have a coil Lyrik with an Avy cartridge. I've ridden the Mezzer set up with someone who is my weight and riding style. And he knows how to set up the fork. I like my fork better but it's splitting hairs for why. For the price of the Mezzer its the best out of the box. If you already own a Lyric get the Avy.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

cassieno said:


> What are the advantages of the Mezzer over getting an Avalanche cartridge for a Lyrik? I read one review that said the Mezzer is best at 180 and I would want to run it at 140mm.
> 
> I think this is more a thought experiment because I will probably get an R7 pro to replace my 2017 Pike, before I replace my Lyrik, but I am still curious.


How do you like your lyrik at 140mm? They also said that about the lyrik except they said the lyrik was "best" best 160mm. When they say this they aren't talking about damping, they are more focused on stiffness. They are saying at 140mm the stiffness of the mezzer wouldn't be much more effective than that of a mattoc pro. Same with the lyrik, the stiffness is best suited for 160mm. Doesn't mean anything really.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Does anyone have some decent air pressure guidelines? I've heard the chart from Manitou can be pretty far off. I weigh about 178 pounds.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> Does anyone have some decent air pressure guidelines? I've heard the chart from Manitou can be pretty far off. I weigh about 178 pounds.


The averages in our spreadsheet say to take the setup guide values and subtract 10 psi, from main and IRT.

I am personally 15 psi under on main and 6.5 psi under on IRT. A little more progressivity for charging hard.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> The averages in our spreadsheet say to take the setup guide values and subtract 10 psi, from main and IRT.
> 
> I am personally 15 psi under on main and 6.5 psi under on IRT. A little more progressivity for charging hard.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I didn't even see the spreadsheet, thanks!


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

megablue said:


> How do you like your lyrik at 140mm? They also said that about the lyrik except they said the lyrik was "best" best 160mm. When they say this they aren't talking about damping, they are more focused on stiffness. They are saying at 140mm the stiffness of the mezzer wouldn't be much more effective than that of a mattoc pro. Same with the lyrik, the stiffness is best suited for 160mm. Doesn't mean anything really.


I like a lot of it from an airspring feel and stiffness perspective. The damper doesn't seem to do anything useful. Turn up low speed compression and it's harsh on repeated impacts. Turn it off and it's diving aggressively in low speed steep situations. High speed is covered pretty well by the MRP ramp control cartridge.

With the weight of the Mattoc Pro and lack of the same features that the Mezzer has, I am not sure why I would go with the Mattoc over the Mezzer.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

cassieno said:


> I like a lot of it from an airspring feel and stiffness perspective. The damper doesn't seem to do anything useful. Turn up low speed compression and it's harsh on repeated impacts. Turn it off and it's diving aggressively in low speed steep situations. High speed is covered pretty well by the MRP ramp control cartridge.
> 
> With the weight of the Mattoc Pro and lack of the same features that the Mezzer has, I am not sure why I would go with the Mattoc over the Mezzer.


That's my point though, you enjoy your fork even though it's well outside the "best" length. I think the mezzer at 140mm would be fine and you would enjoy it a lot.


----------



## Gantz75 (Jun 21, 2020)

First post in here.
Been reading through around 5k posts in the Mattoc thread and now just finnished this thread...  
Noticed some later posts is related to some thoughts I have myself.

Currently running a Mattoc Comp. Have not been able to get it to work as I want but I blame that on lack of knowlage and time... 

Have been testing some shimstacks etc. on the ABS damper but it takes some time and I want to be able to do changes on the trail so I want some more knobs to turn... 

Anyway, desiding between a Mattoc Pro or a Mezzer.
Will be running it at 140mm on a Cotic Flare Max so HA is around 65.
Price is a PRO for the Mattoc but are there any other?
Weight looks simmilar etc.

I weigh around 95kg/210punds in riding gear.
The bike is used as a one quiver so everything from my local more XC riding to a weekend in the bike park. 
Skill level on the bike is mediocre... 

Would be great with some input. 

Thanks
Gantz

Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

With the summer sale, the Mezzer Pro is only $40 more than a Mattoc Pro. I would jump on that deal before it's gone. I'm 156 lbs and appreciate the chassis stiffness. At 210lbs, you would really benefit.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Cerberus75 said:


> I have a coil Lyrik with an Avy cartridge. I've ridden the Mezzer set up with someone who is my weight and riding style. And he knows how to set up the fork. I like my fork better but it's splitting hairs for why. For the price of the Mezzer its the best out of the box. If you already own a Lyric get the Avy.


Thanks for that. Think I'm just itching to buy a new part to play with but don't need it. My take off '19 Yari w/ Avy cartridge, torque caps, and OneUp axle feels rigid and well damped. 
If I had a new build however I'd buy the Mezzer.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thanks for that. Think I'm just itching to buy a new part to play with but don't need it. My take off '19 Yari w/ Avy cartridge, torque caps, and OneUp axle feels rigid and well damped.
> If I had a new build however I'd buy the Mezzer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


If its true they lighten the tune. The older version maybe more up your alley. Adjust for little HSC and a lot of LSC and it'll be like your Avy. Since you're a weight weenie I think this might be good for you. It has the mid travel support like a coil. I'm debating a light weight build next. And this is the fork I'd get if I do it. Its a pound lighter at least than my fork.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Someone at Hayes is going to have some explaining to do.

I originally ordered from Hayes, ended up with a better deal (sort of) at Jenson. Called Hayes and cancelled my order. I received an email that day from a customer service manager saying that he confirmed it did not ship, they processed the refund and that it would be back in my account within 72 hours. 

I got my money back this morning, and this afternoon I receive a package at my doorstep. Odd because I didn't expect anything. Its the mezzer from Hayes. So I have the fork that was returned and my money back. Hayes is lucky I'm an honest person lol. Waiting to hear back from them to see what they want me to do with it.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

megablue said:


> Someone at Hayes is going to have some explaining to do.
> 
> I originally ordered from Hayes, ended up with a better deal (sort of) at Jenson. Called Hayes and cancelled my order. I received an email that day from a customer service manager saying that he confirmed it did not ship, they processed the refund and that it would be back in my account within 72 hours.
> 
> I got my money back this morning, and this afternoon I receive a package at my doorstep. Odd because I didn't expect anything. Its the mezzer from Hayes. So I have the fork that was returned and my money back. Hayes is lucky I'm an honest person lol. Waiting to hear back from them to see what they want me to do with it.


Or jenson sent directly from hayes


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

nikon255 said:


> Or jenson sent directly from hayes


I would believe that, except I got the one from Jenson the day before lol.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

megablue said:


> Does anyone have some decent air pressure guidelines? I've heard the chart from Manitou can be pretty far off. I weigh about 178 pounds.


Do people actually bother with a chart? I put enough pressure in to give me 30% sag as a starting point before riding it and adjusting. I couldn't tell you what sad I have now only the air pressure and damping settings.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

POAH said:


> Do people actually bother with a chart? I put enough pressure in to give me 30% sag as a starting point before riding it and adjusting. I couldn't tell you what sad I have now only the air pressure and damping settings.


Clearly some should since 20% should be the sag starting point. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

POAH said:


> Do people actually bother with a chart? I put enough pressure in to give me 30% sag as a starting point before riding it and adjusting. I couldn't tell you what sad I have now only the air pressure and damping settings.


Yes. Considering I'm coming from DVO where my pressure was 130 psi I would like to have a starting point. I can set things up based on sag by myself but that doesn't change knowing where to start. If I hadn't used a chart I would have put about 100 PSI in the main chamber.


----------



## Gantz75 (Jun 21, 2020)

megablue said:


> Yes. Considering I'm coming from DVO where my pressure was 130 psi I would like to have a starting point. I can set things up based on sag by myself but that doesn't change knowing where to start. If I hadn't used a chart I would have put about 100 PSI in the main chamber.





megablue said:


> Someone at Hayes is going to have some explaining to do.
> 
> I originally ordered from Hayes, ended up with a better deal (sort of) at Jenson. Called Hayes and cancelled my order. I received an email that day from a customer service manager saying that he confirmed it did not ship, they processed the refund and that it would be back in my account within 72 hours.
> 
> I got my money back this morning, and this afternoon I receive a package at my doorstep. Odd because I didn't expect anything. Its the mezzer from Hayes. So I have the fork that was returned and my money back. Hayes is lucky I'm an honest person lol. Waiting to hear back from them to see what they want me to do with it.





CCS86 said:


> With the summer sale, the Mezzer Pro is only $40 more than a Mattoc Pro. I would jump on that deal before it's gone. I'm 156 lbs and appreciate the chassis stiffness. At 210lbs, you would really benefit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the input.

Not sure if I can jump on the summer sale from EU.

Either way my plan is to take a new approach on my fork purchase and buy where I can actually get help if something fails. 
Buying from the German stores might be cheaper but as I have found out it is a PITA when you need help...

Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm feeling the same. I hear great things about the support Hayes give, but it really doesn't seem to be available in Europe.

Regards the summer sale, there's a post advertising it on Facebook that says to contact the distributor. Might be worth a try but like you, I'm getting tired of trying to sort out a fork with little to no support from the supply chain.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm sure no one will be surprised by this, but any review on the Hayes site that's less than 5 stars just gets deleted without any communication.


----------



## Gantz75 (Jun 21, 2020)

onzadog said:


> I'm feeling the same. I hear great things about the support Hayes give, but it really doesn't seem to be available in Europe.
> 
> Regards the summer sale, there's a post advertising it on Facebook that says to contact the distributor. Might be worth a try but like you, I'm getting tired of trying to sort out a fork with little to no support from the supply chain.


Yea, but to be honest I feel I have the same issue despite brand. Advantage of RockShox and Fox is that everyone is using them so there is some knowlage in the local community.

I have a softspot for Manitou since way back when I was still running full rigid and a friend had a manitou on his bike. It felt awsome compared to my steel fork 

What I do really like with Manitou is approach that it is not a bad thing that you want to service your own things. 
I have a CC DbIl shock and their approach is that you should not do anything your self and you have to have it serviced by an authorized service center. Cannot even get parts for it. 
Just had it serviced for the same price of the Mcleod that I bought as a spare. This I find really provoking(even more when I noticed the McLeod to perform as good or even better).

Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> Clearly some should since 20% should be the sag starting point.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


keep your sarcastic replies to yourself 



megablue said:


> Yes. Considering I'm coming from DVO where my pressure was 130 psi I would like to have a starting point. I can set things up based on sag by myself but that doesn't change knowing where to start. If I hadn't used a chart I would have put about 100 PSI in the main chamber.


but why would you have put 100psi in the main chamber? I didn't use the same pressure when I changed from my mattoc because its a different fork hence why I started at a random sag point.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

POAH said:


> Do people actually bother with a chart? I put enough pressure in to give me 30% sag as a starting point before riding it and adjusting. I couldn't tell you what sad I have now only the air pressure and damping settings.





POAH said:


> keep your sarcastic replies to yourself
> 
> but why would you have put 100psi in the main chamber? I didn't use the same pressure when I changed from my mattoc because its a different fork hence why I started at a random sag point.


What was sarcastic about that? He was implying that 30% sag is a bit high and meant it literally.

You are throwing shade at using the chart as a starting point, which seems pretty silly. Setting pressure is going to be an iterative process anyway. So, why would you start with a completely random value and increase the amount of work needed to get it right?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> What was sarcastic about that? He was implying that 30% sag is a bit high and meant it literally.
> 
> You are throwing shade at using the chart as a starting point, which seems pretty silly. Setting pressure is going to be an iterative process anyway. So, why would you start with a completely random value and increase the amount of work needed to get it right?


The chart doesn't take into consideration a riders ability, weight distribution, trails they ride or the bike they are on. So how is it any different from starting at 30% or indeed 20% sag as a starting point?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

POAH said:


> The chart doesn't take into consideration a riders ability, weight distribution, trails they ride or the bike they are on. So how is it any different from starting at 30% or indeed 20% sag as a starting point?


You are missing the point. Each fork is mechanically different in how air chamber pressure relates to spring force. The mfg chart gives you a quick starting point of pressure, for your weight and travel, to get a ballpark sag %. Without that you are guessing and wasting time.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Sag doesn't work because everyone measures it in a different position.

My seated sag is only 10-16% because my bike is long and slack. By that guide you'd think my air pressures are high. But they're lower than most.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

POAH said:


> The chart doesn't take into consideration a riders ability, weight distribution, trails they ride or the bike they are on. So how is it any different from starting at 30% or indeed 20% sag as a starting point?


Because you use the chart to get close to the sag point that you want. Which is my point of my old fork being 120psi, each fork is so different. So why wouldn't I use a chart to get a rough estimate of the area I should be in then adjust from there? If I don't know average pressure for the fork then how am I going to get 20-30% sag? Using a chart is a lot quicker than using a random number, checking, and readjusting.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Seems like a fundamental problem. Manitou should disappear from the market.
Shame 
Shame 
Shame


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

bansaiman said:


> Seems like a fundamental problem. Manitou should disappear from the market.
> Shame
> Shame
> Shame


Not sure if I missed the context. What is a fundamental problem?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm not sure they need to "disappear" but I think they perhaps need to realise that they're not going to gain massive market share if they don't respect their customers a bit more.

My first ever suspension fork was a Rockshox before they even named them. Then a Manitou 2, followed by a Manitou 3. Then a Manitou Mach5. I got badly bitten by that fork and it actually worked better as a water pump than a suspension fork - dreadful thing.

Anyway, the Mezzer is the first time since then that I've given them a chance and it's really not going well at all.


----------



## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

Still working my way through this entire thread so apologies if already covered.
Considering “overforking” a new frameset with a reduced travel Mezzer.

Bike designed around 140mm, 551 a-c, 51 offset 29” fork.
160 mezzer looks like 574 a-c but Hayes Service Guide indicates reducing travel to 150 will also reduce a-c. 
Huh? I’ve never reduced fork travel before so maybe this makes sense. Would certainly mitigate concerns about change to bike geometry. Can someone confirm please? 
Thanks


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yes. Axle to crown or a-c is dependent on fork travel. 10mm of travel is worth 10mm of axle to crown. You can set the Mezzer from 140 to 180.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> Still working my way through this entire thread so apologies if already covered.
> Considering "overforking" a new frameset with a reduced travel Mezzer.
> 
> Bike designed around 140mm, 551 a-c, 51 offset 29" fork.
> ...


If you reduce the travel by 20mm on the mezzer the a2c is reduced by 20mm. If you increase the travel by 20mm the a2c increases by 20mm.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

POAH said:


> The chart doesn't take into consideration a riders ability, weight distribution, trails they ride or the bike they are on. So how is it any different from starting at 30% or indeed 20% sag as a starting point?


The chart is a starting point to get to the correct 20% sag for your weight. Beginning at the recommended pressure you should then adjust air pressure to reach approximately 19-22% sag for your particular bike/ CoG/ setup.

If you are ending up at a pressure of your choosing that gives you 30% sag, you aren't doing it right and would most certainly be closer to ideal just following the chart.

Good luck.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> I'm not sure they need to "disappear" but I think they perhaps need to realise that they're not going to gain massive market share if they don't respect their customers a bit more.
> 
> My first ever suspension fork was a Rockshox before they even named them. Then a Manitou 2, followed by a Manitou 3. Then a Manitou Mach5. I got badly bitten by that fork and it actually worked better as a water pump than a suspension fork - dreadful thing.
> 
> Anyway, the Mezzer is the first time since then that I've given them a chance and it's really not going well at all.


It's hard to follow through this thread. What problem are you having right now?

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

onzadog said:


> I'm not sure they need to "disappear" but I think they perhaps need to realise that they're not going to gain massive market share if they don't respect their customers a bit more.


Lol you think Fox and Rockshox got big by "respecting their customers"? Have you ever tried to warranty anything with either of those companies? I've gotten more help from dead squirrels than either of their customer support teams.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

No, I don't have any reason to think that Rockshox or Fox are any better but both importers in the UK seems to be more communicative than for Manitou. In my experience, Fox was good under Mojo but I hear things are not so good under Silverfish. Marzocchi was good under Windwave.

Not tried it yet but I'd imagine Formula would be good under Geometron.

The big difference with Fox/Rockshox Vs Manitou right now though, seems to be there is a greater chance of getting a trouble free fork.

I've no doubt that, all things being equal, the Manitou is a better fork. The trouble is, things are not equal. While it seems like Manitou are looking after there US customers having reworked warehouse stock and I know Dougal has had replacement castings shipped for affected forks, we don't seem to be getting the same level of care in the UK (or from their European HQ).

If there is a known issue with a fork (and there is with early Mezzers) then all I'm asking us that they sort them before selling them. My riding time is limited and precious to me so I don't want to fit a fork only to have to take it off a month later and then ship it off and wait for however long waiting for the importer to acquire and fit parts to a fork that shouldn't have gone out with known issues in the first place.

I'm coming off a 2016 pike and I just ride for my own pleasure. I have to wonder if mediocre performance from a reliable fork is more value to me than an uber fork that's more than likely going to spend time away under warranty.

I have a couple of Avalanche dampers that used to be in 26" Fox 36 forks. Maybe I should see about getting one of those modded and dropped in a Yari chassis. Maybe add a runt or similar somewhere down the line.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Quick question. Anyone know where I could get a replacement decal for the Mezzer? Took a trip with bike on rack and my daughter's pedal managed to somehow scuff up the decal on the lower part of brake side...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> No, I don't have any reason to think that Rockshox or Fox are any better but both importers in the UK seems to be more communicative than for Manitou. In my experience, Fox was good under Mojo but I hear things are not so good under Silverfish. Marzocchi was good under Windwave.
> 
> Not tried it yet but I'd imagine Formula would be good under Geometron.
> 
> ...


Have you received a fork with a problem or is this hand-wringing?

BTW if you, or anyone else, want to be the UK Manitou distributor, I can probably put you in touch with the right people......


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

If you go on the forums literally everything has a problem with the worst / or sub-par customer service. 

Rockshox doesn't have any. They won't talk to me. They always have you go through an LBS.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Th3Bill said:


> Quick question. Anyone know where I could get a replacement decal for the Mezzer? Took a trip with bike on rack and my daughter's pedal managed to somehow scuff up the decal on the lower part of brake side...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was a guy that printed off some a page or 2 ago. But I am also interested, because I want to murder out my fork and have black decals. So I am interested if anyone has the template.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

cassieno said:


> If you go on the forums literally everything has a problem with the worst / or sub-par customer service.
> 
> Rockshox doesn't have any. They won't talk to me. They always have you go through an LBS.


Exactly. People always act like poor customer service is only related to one manufacturer. It's more rare to find good customer service these days. Manitou and DVO have been the standouts for me.

The guy is also acting like Rockshox and fox don't have issues with their stuff. It's not like Rockshox had to recall 1,000 forks last year because the lowers were breaking for no apparent reason. Or that fox doesn't have an ongoing issue with their inability to press a steerer tube into a CSU without it coming loose and creaking.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

megablue said:


> The guy is also acting like Rockshox and fox don't have issues with their stuff. It's not like Rockshox had to recall 1,000 forks last year because the lowers were breaking for no apparent reason. Or that fox doesn't have an ongoing issue with their inability to press a steerer tube into a CSU without it coming loose and creaking.


Fox can't even be bothered to align their steerer tubes before pressing them in. Check out 1:20 of the video.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> The chart is a starting point to get to the correct 20% sag for your weight. Beginning at the recommended pressure you should then adjust air pressure to reach approximately 19-22% sag for your particular bike/ CoG/ setup.
> 
> If you are ending up at a pressure of your choosing that gives you 30% sag, you aren't doing it right and would most certainly be closer to ideal just following the chart.
> 
> Good luck.


it doesn't matter if you start with 20% or 30% because you are going to adjust it.

Just to point out if I was to use the chart I would be massively over pressured compared to what I actually run which is closer to what I actually started with. So remind me why I'm doing it wrong?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

POAH said:


> it doesn't matter if you start with 20% or 30% because you are going to adjust it.
> 
> Just to point out if I was to use the chart I would be massively over pressured compared to what I actually run which is closer to what I actually started with. So remind me why I'm doing it wrong?


Again, if you are coming from another fork, the chart gets you to a rough starting point much faster than random guess and check numbers.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ok and if the first proposal from the chart does not fit then you will be able to guess in which direction you should aim and how much the gap in pressure might be. To get sag correct is a matter of changing pressure 3 - 4 times und getting (ie standing) on your pedals. I do not see, even if the chart is not 90% accurate why that would take soooo "long"? Are under 5 minutes long?

Besides the exact pressure will be found on the trail and from that rough starting point you will move on to your setup by chaning a pressure by a few pwi until it fits not sag%.
It comes down to ride feel, not seing exposed stanchions ;-)


----------



## Berm VonCrashen (Nov 21, 2015)

Have tried a few pressures re-calculated off the spreadsheet in this forum thread. Thank you for all placing in their setups in that, this helped more to gain a closer base to play with, versus sag. My bike and shocks was so diifrerent to what iI have expereinced, the spreedsheet was more helpful with base tunes. 

Considering how much with Manitou you can fine tune over the other brands I had used, these are awesome. Though differentiating lower air presurres with higer compression v more air and less compression settings, I am a little lost.

Being light weight around 74kg and using them as 170mm forks for enduro riding what is the path with the air setup i should take. Or am i being stupid and should just keep tinkering between both to find a happy medium.

From all the above, softer to the recomended seems better. Though has anyone tried a more close or above with factory base air and very low tune to compare? 

Trails I ride overall are more rocks and roots than big drops or jumps. 

Just seeing what people experienced in this line of setup.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

megablue said:


> Again, if you are coming from another fork, the chart gets you to a rough starting point much faster than random guess and check numbers.


doesn't matter what fork you come from and my guess was almost spot on oddly enough unlike what the chart suggested.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Berm VonCrashen said:


> Have tried a few pressures re-calculated off the spreadsheet in this forum thread. Thank you for all placing in their setups in that, this helped more to gain a closer base to play with, versus sag. My bike and shocks was so diifrerent to what iI have expereinced, the spreedsheet was more helpful with base tunes.
> 
> Considering how much with Manitou you can fine tune over the other brands I had used, these are awesome. Though differentiating lower air presurres with higer compression v more air and less compression settings, I am a little lost.
> 
> ...


Are you asking if people tried more air and less compression?

I ended up on on lower pressures, because the setup guide was too firm air spring wise. Barely used over half travel and my fork was mismatched to my rear spring rate. Dropping it to the values I have listed produces an even front and rear balance and allows good cornering grip, and even preload for jumps.

From my understanding, at your weight you will likely run HSC open and probably LSC midway after getting proper air pressures.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Have you received a fork with a problem or is this hand-wringing?
> 
> BTW if you, or anyone else, want to be the UK Manitou distributor, I can probably put you in touch with the right people......


Haha, maybe some would class it as "hang-wringing". Maybe it's just an attitude carried over from work, but we don't fit equipment to the distribution network unless we have confidence in it.

I've just returned the fork I had. The frustration is that with a response to my email to Hayes of a week ago, I might very well have been willing to keep them.

Any production facility, once an issue is identified, should be able to work out which serial numbers are affected. It's a poor show if you are unwilling to share that information with a customer who is aware of the issues, when requested.

I'm sure they're a great fork if you get a working one.

I know a couple of guys who run companies importing stuff into the UK, I've asked if either of them are interested in Manitou. I'll pass on your details if they are.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Still you did not mention the actual issue your fork had


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

onzadog said:


> Haha, maybe some would class it as "hang-wringing". Maybe it's just an attitude carried over from work, but we don't fit equipment to the distribution network unless we have confidence in it.
> 
> I've just returned the fork I had. The frustration is that with a response to my email to Hayes of a week ago, I might very well have been willing to keep them.
> 
> ...


Feel free to actually share what issues you had instead of just saying it "had issues"


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

POAH said:


> doesn't matter what fork you come from and my guess was almost spot on oddly enough unlike what the chart suggested.


Coming from a different fork with a different damper absolutely does matter. The point we are trying to make is going above your head.

I came from DVO, without looking at the chart for the mezzer I would have thought, "well I was at about 125 psi so maybe that's a good place to start". Obviously for this fork that would have been absolute overkill. So without looking at a chart or asking people that with similar to myself I would have no clue where to start. Does that make sense?

Every fork with a different damper it's going to have completely different pressures. You would have no idea where to start without having either a chart, speaking with other owners, or having previous experience with that damper.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Air spring pressures are tricky since each manufacturer will have a starting point which is based on certain assumptions - weight of rider, type of riding, etc.

I was doing some research on setup and found this video which does a good job of showing how the air pressure pieces fit together -



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=232619274775543



I'm a pretty heavy visual learner so seeing the pieces together made the light bulb come on for me to really get how changing X impacts Y with this fork.

I have been messing around with pressures and discovered that my analog shock pump was a good 10 PSI off over what the dial showed so step 1 was getting a digital gauge pump since that has better accuracy than the analog gauge pumps I was using.

I have decided to test the following:


75 IRT/42 lower aka Dorado (from someone on this thread that is the same weight I am)
80 IRT/40 lower based on some calculations Dougal provided via Manitou for a 40 in/lb coil
85 IRT/50 lower based on a rough approximation by Dougal of half your body weight for IRT and 1/3 body weight for lower


I have ridden a 40 in/lb coil in different forks and I'm in between 40 in/lb and 45 in/lb coils but I know what they feel like on other forks so that is a good benchmark.

Long story short I think that any air fork rider will have to do some bracketing based on what they want, where and what they ride, and also forks differ as far as the design and effect of air pressure.

For a Mezzer I think things can be a bit more tricky with a triple air setup (same goes for a dual air spring fork really) but the flip side is that it can really be dialed in to what each person wants.

One thing I have noticed, thanks to my analog pump, is that the Mezzer doesn't feel like complete doo-doo when you ride it with less than optimal pressure setups on paper.

I was running a 95/55 (pump inaccuracy) with rebound completely open (never actually set it after initial check of lower leg oil) on a steep and fast trail in my area last Sunday and while the setup wasn't my ideal setup the Mezzer did a good job of handling it.

Other forks I have seen much more of a penalty of sorts when the air pressure(s) is outside of the sweet spot so the TL;DR here I guess is not to be afraid to try things out and see what you like or don't like.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> Haha, maybe some would class it as "hang-wringing". Maybe it's just an attitude carried over from work, but we don't fit equipment to the distribution network unless we have confidence in it.
> 
> I've just returned the fork I had. The frustration is that with a response to my email to Hayes of a week ago, I might very well have been willing to keep them.
> 
> ...


Okay, so you didn't ride or test the fork or find any problems. You weren't 100% sure it was perfect so you sent it back?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep. As mentioned previously, this very thread was used to create a time line.
We know some early forks had issues with bushing play and bottom out bumpers.
What is an early for? According to this thread, the first retail forks weren't getting delivered until July 2019.
How many forks were affected? Unclear, but it was enough that replacement castings had been sent to some before they were needed and stock in the domestic market warehouse were all checked, updated/modified where required and marked with a green dot.
Production changes were made that people refer to as RevA.
If I've read this thread correctly, they are now producing RevB with has a further bushing modification (it's not just about bleed ports and decals).
In Europe, there is no mention of any rework to those early versions. We don't get any version of "the green dot" rework as far as we know.

Being aware of this history, I ask a retailer to confirm that the product they are selling is the latest version. Given that what I've learned about this fork (good and bad) it's likely that any shop staff are not as well informed, I ask them to confirm the latest model by the easiest mod to visually confirm - the bleed port. They confirm its the latest version.

Fork is ordered and arrives and is found not to have the bleed ports. Also found that manufacturing date is June 2019.

This predates any of the retail forks discussed on this forum.
I contact Hayes with the serial number and ask to know if the fork is from an affected batch and whether any modification or rework has been carried out, or is outstanding. My email gets bounced to European head office because I'm not from the USA, where a week later, I've heard nothing from either.

Yes Dougal, you're correct, I didn't test ride the fork or find any problems.

I'm not looking to be 100% certain it's perfect. I feel that statement is a little unfair and twists the facts somewhat.

I'm looking for a fork, that on the balance of probability, isn't going to be a pain in the ass. It's the same reason I don't buy RaceFace carbon cranks - the chance of a debonded pedal insert is too high.

My 2016 Pike might not be very stuff or have the best damping, but it's been reliable so far. As mentioned before, riding time is limited and precious. I don't want to sell the Pike to replace with the manitou to then have my bike hung on the wall for a month waiting for warranty parts.

While Hayes USA seems to have a good reputation for customer service, the UK importer, Hotlines, has a poor reputation for carrying spares to suit the brands they carry. I wouldn't expect warranty to be sorted out very quickly.

So yeah, I sent the forks back. Maybe they would have been perfect, maybe they would have been a problem. I think it's fair to say that with a production date of June 2019, they had a greater chance of people a problem than a set manufactured this year.

What's the point in people sharing information here unless others are going to use that information to help inform their decision making? After all, it's that sharing of information that helped me choose the Mezzer in the first place, including many helpful posts by you, Dougal. It certainly wasn't the mixed reviews from magazines or the lack of video reviews on YouTube. It's clear you're a big fan of the company and the product and do a lot on forums to help promote them but it's still an underdog compared to where manitou once we're.

I might very likely still fit a Mezzer once we get some later production runs here. As others have said, all the competition have their foibles as well.


Why am I up so early when I'm on the other side of the world from you? Work. Yes, I'll probably spend today catching up on sleep rather than riding my bike - again!


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

onzadog said:


> Yep. As mentioned previously, this very thread was used to create a time line.
> We know some early forks had issues with bushing play and bottom out bumpers.
> What is an early for? According to this thread, the first retail forks weren't getting delivered until July 2019.
> How many forks were affected? Unclear, but it was enough that replacement castings had been sent to some before they were needed and stock in the domestic market warehouse were all checked, updated/modified where required and marked with a green dot.
> ...


Sounds like your first issue is with where you bought the fork, that's not manitous issue.

Second there are revision B forks in the EU market, on this very page someone posted the fork they bought from bike24 (a German distributor) where they received a revision B fork.

"Mixed reviews from magazines"? Literally the only reviewer that did not like the mezzer was the dude from pinkbike. He doesn't have the best track record for being the brightest tester. Pinkbike has also been known for favoring companies that like to line their pockets with a little extra cash in exchange for a glowing review.

Also, you mention you want the probability of receiving a fork that won't have issues to be high. Do you know the percentage of forks that were effected? How certain are you that it was a high percentage? All brands have a percentage of failures. Look at Fox and their steerer tube issues that are plaguing their forks, yet people still buy them in droves.

Why didn't you call Manitou? They are much more helpful over the phone than by email.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep, first issue was with the retailer. No argument there.

Yep, some posters on here have had RevB from the same German retailer I used. Must be down to wheel size and offset.

I've been around mountain biking long enough to have a certain cynicism about magazine reviews. One of the reasons I prefer forums like this.

No, don't know the probability, only Manitou have that information. Had to make an educated guess based on information available combined with first hand experience of manufacturing environments and the need/likelihood of rework.

Hayes/Manitou are a good number of time zones away from me and while repeatedly hearing good things about their customer service, this is the first suggestion that it varies between email and telephone. I mistakenly thought an email request would be adequate.


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

onzadog said:


> Yep, first issue was with the retailer. No argument there.
> 
> Yep, some posters on here have had RevB from the same German retailer I used. Must be down to wheel size and offset.
> 
> ...


Which retailer did you purchase from and fork model did you buy?

I just ordered a 29er mezzer with 44mm offset through Starbike.

I'm very excited to ride them. Our distributor over here in Australia is pretty poor. I asked them if I could purchase one locally and they stated they couldn't get them.

At least shockcraft is over the ditch should any issues arise.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I got mine from Starbike, I ordered the 650b 44o/s.

In fairness to them, they've taken the fork back without too much bigger so far. It's not put me off shopping with them again.

I know other on here have had the RevB from StarBike despite them telling me that the German importer wouldn't have any until Oct/Nov.


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

I guess it's a bit of a lucky dip then.

I'll cross my fingers for the revised version. 

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

onzadog said:


> Yep. As mentioned previously, this very thread was used to create a time line.
> We know some early forks had issues with bushing play and bottom out bumpers.
> What is an early for? According to this thread, the first retail forks weren't getting delivered until July 2019.
> How many forks were affected? Unclear, but it was enough that replacement castings had been sent to some before they were needed and stock in the domestic market warehouse were all checked, updated/modified where required and marked with a green dot.
> ...


Warranty works if you buy something and it shows problems within the warranty time.
You are debating about a fork you didn't even try, if your bushings or bottom bumpers have problem you will get new lowers, otherwise you are fine.
I'm in Italy and i had replacement lowers in 1 week, for the bottom bumpers.
Understood? You are overthinking it


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

You're missing the point I think. That's the contract we all accept and I would have accepted with a fork that was either checked at the warehouse of manufactured after issues had been identified.

It's a bit like saying that you know there have been burglaries in your neighbourhood but you're not allowed to be concerned until you've been burgled yourself.

Wouldn't a sensible person ask the police about their MO and consider an alarm or upgrading the locks?


Maybe I'm the one in the wrong given how many people seem to be willing to do the QC work that Manitou should have done beforehand.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

onzadog, u r right. I'd send it back too. I had defective mezzer, then they send new one with same problem. Lost like month or more. You dont pay such money to struggle with warranty department. Manitou in Europe "operate" a little different than in US... Luckly I had another fork for replacement which I stayed with


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks nikon255. Totally agree that there is a gulf between operations either side of the pond.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> You're missing the point I think. That's the contract we all accept and I would have accepted with a fork that was either checked at the warehouse of manufactured after issues had been identified.
> 
> Maybe I'm the one in the wrong given how many people seem to be willing to do the QC work that Manitou should have done beforehand.


I understand your annoyance but TBH if there is nothing wrong with the fork what is the issue?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

This is Schrödinger's fork. No one actually knows if there's anything wrong with this fork or not. It might be okay, but given it's from a batch that predate know issues, there's an increased likelihood that it won't be. I see no benefit to me in doing QC for Manitou.

It's pretty clear that some folk on here agree/can see the point I'm trying to make and then there are some who disagree/don't get it. I can pretty much guarantee that the number who will change their minds as a result of this thread is a round number.

I'm not adverse to another Manitou fork and I'm not asking for any help here so there's nothing more for anyone to gain. My shopping experience has been documented on here so, as I did, people can assess all the information and make up their own minds.

Seems it might be prudent to allow this tangent to die off.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

onzadog said:


> Seems it might be prudent to allow this tangent to die off.


return it and source from somewhere else


----------



## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

I'm with *onzadog* on this,
I have my eye on Mezzer since it was announced. This fork is rather substantial investment. I'm in Europe but not EU so warranty replacements aren't that easy. I don't really want to buy some faulty fork from early production batch and just start messing with warranties immediately after purchase because this obviously will cost me a lot of time, nerves and money.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

onzadog said:


> This is Schrödinger's fork. No one actually knows if there's anything wrong with this fork or not. It might be okay, but given it's from a batch that predate know issues, there's an increased likelihood that it won't be. I see no benefit to me in doing QC for Manitou.
> 
> It's pretty clear that some folk on here agree/can see the point I'm trying to make and then there are some who disagree/don't get it. I can pretty much guarantee that the number who will change their minds as a result of this thread is a round number.
> 
> ...


It would have taken 10 minutes to check. Remove the lower nuts, slide off the lowers, hold them horizontal to keep the oil in and shine a light down to see if you had the new bumpers.

Slide it back together and replace the nuts.

It is my understanding that replacement lowers were issued for all early forks.

There will be some forks (like mine) which haven't been swapped yet because my bushings have been good and someone lucky will get an ex demo fork with brand new lowers when it's ready to move on.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Mebaru said:


> I'm with *onzadog* on this,
> I have my eye on Mezzer since it was announced. This fork is rather substantial investment. I'm in Europe but not EU so warranty replacements aren't that easy. I don't really want to buy some faulty fork from early production batch and just start messing with warranties immediately after purchase because this obviously will cost me a lot of time, nerves and money.


Then go ahead and remove Ohlins, cane Creek, fox, and DVO from your list of viable options then. You're left with Rockshox and their inability to create a decent compression tune or air spring.

I'm not trying to be a dick. But every company listed has known issues that are causing warranties. Onza is acting like Manitou is the only company that has had production issues. Manitou fixed the issues. It sucks that y'all are in a region that doesn't have access to the revised version all the time, however that seems to be the distributors fault and not Manitou since there are documented cases of people getting the revised version in Europe.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

@Dougal

Question for you. I dropped my lowers when I got my fork and the bath oil looked fine to me (seems like they made sure it was right when they swapped the revision B lowers onto this fork). But I forgot to check the slickoleum on the IRT piston. Can I release pressure and just remove the IRT and check it or do I need to drop the lowers and then remove it?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> @Dougal
> 
> Question for you. I dropped my lowers when I got my fork and the bath oil looked fine to me (seems like they made sure it was right when they swapped the revision B lowers onto this fork). But I forgot to check the slickoleum on the IRT piston. Can I release pressure and just remove the IRT and check it or do I need to drop the lowers and then remove it?


Just drop pressure in the main and IRT chamber and you can pull it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> Just drop pressure in the main and IRT chamber and you can pull it.


And do it in that order, generally you always want to fill the IRT first, and empty it last.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

torcha said:


> assholes , I have mail from them confirming that they have all of them in new version. Ok so Starbike not reliable anymore. Send it back and buy from Bike24 , I bought mine in May and have manufacture date 13/3/2020 . I have also confirmed from bike-dscount that they should be ok.


I just picked up my Mezzer from the post office. Ordered from Bike24 a couple of weeks back.

Sadly, similar to Onzadog, the fork has:
-No pressure relief valves
-No green marking on the box
-Sticker in one large piece

I can live without the valves, but it is the bushing issue that scares me...

Is there a way to confirm the state of the bushings in an easy manner??


----------



## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

onzadog said:


> This is Schrödinger's fork. No one actually knows if there's anything wrong with this fork or not. It might be okay, but given it's from a batch that predate know issues, there's an increased likelihood that it won't be. I see no benefit to me in doing QC for Manitou.


Your position is rational and I'd have done the same thing. Seems some here are missing your point of potentially dealing with warranty issues cutting into your limited riding time which seems the crux of your decision to return the fork.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> And do it in that order, generally you always want to fill the IRT first, and empty it last.


Thanks. Stupid question but where all should I cost the slick on? I know the o ring but should it go above and below the oring as well?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

phishstix said:


> Your position is rational and I'd have done the same thing. Seems some here are missing your point of potentially dealing with warranty issues cutting into your limited riding time which seems the crux of your decision to return the fork.


No, we understand him not wanting to deal with warranty issues (although he will run into those same issues with any suspension company). What we think is dumb is that he did not take 10 minutes to check and see if his fork was fixed or not before returning it and ranting on here.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> I just picked up my Mezzer from the post office. Ordered from Bike24 a couple of weeks back.
> 
> Sadly, similar to Onzadog, the fork has:
> -No pressure relief valves
> ...


Bushings were updated the same time as bottom-out bumpers. So pull the lower legs and see if the bumpers are in place or not. Early bumpers were all soft rubber. Updated ones are metal backed and lock in place. The updated lowers I have here have a split in the bumpers (like pacman) that is easy to spot from looking down.

Remove the lower nuts, slide off the lowers, hold them horizontal to keep the oil in and shine a light down to see if you had the new bumpers.

Slide it back together and replace the nuts.

*The relief valves and sticker updates have nothing to do with the bushings. They changed much much later.*
Green dots were only for forks updated in Hayes warehouse. Distributors did not use green dots.


----------



## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

megablue said:


> No, we understand him not wanting to deal with warranty issues (although he will run into those same issues with any suspension company). What we think is dumb is that he did not take 10 minutes to check and see if his fork was fixed or not before returning it and ranting on here.


From what I read he did his due diligence on manufacturing dates and updates related to the reworks and didn't see any indication that he indeed had the latest revision. Not hard to understand IMO but maybe so for some.

I wouldn't want to have to check if my new fork was 'fixed' either if I asked the retailer and manufacturer about updates with no reply.

His choice is current Pike or Mezzer and Mezzer the only one with potential warranty issues from the start.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

phishstix said:


> From what I read he did his due diligence on manufacturing dates and updates related to the reworks and didn't see any indication that he indeed had the latest revision. Not hard to understand IMO but maybe so for some.


Except that's not true. Dougal has even confirmed that the forks that were fixed in the EU market by distributors were not marked by a green dot and for the most part they did not have access to the revision B lowers until much later on. The only way to tell if you had a fixed fork was to take 10 minutes and drop the lowers and look for the updates internals. So no, he did not do his due diligence. He looked for external physical characteristics, which there were none, and then returned them.


----------



## phishstix (Mar 15, 2020)

megablue said:


> Except that's not true. Dougal has even confirmed that the forks that were fixed in the EU market by distributors were not marked by a green dot and for the most part they did not have access to the revision B lowers until much later on. The only way to tell if you had a fixed fork was to take 10 minutes and drop the lowers and look for the updates internals. So no, he did not do his due diligence. He looked for external physical characteristics, which there were none, and then returned them.


I'm shopping for a new fork myself and I'm not going to choose one that I have to drop lowers off to see if I received what I paid for. Bottom line.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

phishstix said:


> I'm shopping for a new fork myself and I'm not going to choose one that I have to drop lowers off to see if I received what I paid for. Bottom line.


You do know you have to drop the lowers off of any fork you buy, right? You're also in the US. You don't have to drop the lowers off of any of ours.

I'm not saying you should have to. I'm saying if he was so concerned about it he should have checked. He was so set on the fact that his might have a bushing issue without looking at the bushings. If he didn't want to do that, that's fine. But don't come here and complain about it.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Motorex full synt 4t 5w-40 is good for bath oil, right? I was going to try supergliss but I can get the 4t locally for cheap.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

langen said:


> I just picked up my Mezzer from the post office. Ordered from Bike24 a couple of weeks back.
> 
> Sadly, similar to Onzadog, the fork has:
> -No pressure relief valves
> ...


Hi Langen,
As others have said, it's a fairly simple job to drop the lowers and check. However, doing so _could_ make it difficult to return the fork if the shop notices you have dropped the lowers. Bit of a catch 22 as you can only really pull apart a fork you'd decided to keep.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

onzadog said:


> Hi Langen,
> As others have said, it's a fairly simple job to drop the lowers and check. However, doing so _could_ make it difficult to return the fork if the shop notices you have dropped the lowers. Bit of a catch 22 as you can only really pull apart a fork you'd decided to keep.


I am in awe of how little risk you seem willing to take lol

You are missing out on the best single crown fork currently available because of what if.....and you have a back up fork!


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Bushings were updated the same time as bottom-out bumpers. So pull the lower legs and see if the bumpers are in place or not. Early bumpers were all soft rubber. Updated ones are metal backed and lock in place. The updated lowers I have here have a split in the bumpers (like pacman) that is easy to spot from looking down.
> 
> Remove the lower nuts, slide off the lowers, hold them horizontal to keep the oil in and shine a light down to see if you had the new bumpers.


There are at least 3 different versions of the bumpers. Maybe 4, I haven't seen one that is all soft rubber. But I have seen the rubber with metal molded in bumper in two versions, both split and unsplit, with the split ones apparently being installed in updated early forks. And the Rev.B castings have yet a new version of an unsplit reinforced snugger fitting rubber bumper with a separate nylon washer installed beneath it, I would assume this is the standard going forward.

It's unfortunate that some guys outside the US are getting bad information from vendors and can't be confident of efficient warranty support. But I get their concern, and this forum is certainly a lot to digest. With it being confusing to verify the status of early forks, how much hassle and risk it is worth is something everybody has to decide for themselves. I would say that once everybody is shipping the Rev.B forks it becomes much less of a concern, and the fork is excellent.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Velodonata, thank you. That sums it up nicely.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

langen said:


> I just picked up my Mezzer from the post office. Ordered from Bike24 a couple of weeks back.
> 
> Sadly, similar to Onzadog, the fork has:
> -No pressure relief valves
> ...


I am really sorry to hear that, I got new version from them , so it means it is always better to ask for your specific fork in advance.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> Motorex full synt 4t 5w-40 is good for bath oil, right? I was going to try supergliss but I can get the 4t locally for cheap.


Yes that's the factory semi-bath oil.

Also. If you guys want better retail support. You probably won't find that at the discount sellers.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I'd rather buy them retail so there was some support both ways. The Hotlines Europe site (UK importer) links to a number of shops that supposedly sell Manitou. Two of those are well respected suspension shops, TFtuned and J-Tech suspension. Would be great to get a fork from them knowing it had been checked and optimised first. Unfortunately, they don't really sell them. It's just the box stackers who do. I've not seen them advertised anywhere in the UK other than Wiggle and CRC.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

onzadog said:


> I'd rather buy them retail so there was some support both ways. The Hotlines Europe site (UK importer) links to a number of shops that supposedly sell Manitou. Two of those are well respected suspension shops, TFtuned and J-Tech suspension. Would be great to get a fork from them knowing it had been checked and optimised first. Unfortunately, they don't really sell them. It's just the box stackers who do. I've not seen them advertised anywhere in the UK other than Wiggle and CRC.


Ask Rulezman in Italy. I guess he is one of the Manitou experts. Nice guy!


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback!!

I'll check out the bumpers as per the instructions from [mention]Dougal [/mention] , and if the bumpers are updated I'll mount the fork and go riding


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

*Rubber Baby Buggy Mezzer Bumpers*



langen said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!!
> 
> I'll check out the bumpers as per the instructions from Dougal, and if the bumpers are updated I'll mount the fork and go riding


To hopefully make this easier for anybody wondering:

Upper Left: Original bumpers?, metal reinforced rubber. Seem undersized, don't fit snug and can move out of position. Still captured by rod running through them, but conceivably could be caught and crushed at an angle on bottom out.

Upper Right: Split bumpers, metal reinforced, as installed in updated Rev.A forks. Opened up for snug fit. (not my photo)

Bottom: Bumpers from Rev.B lowers. Reinforced rubber fits snug, sits on top of nylon washer.


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Curious on your input for those that have played a lot with the fork. I'm working to fine tune it for my liking, and would love your input. 

150mm travel. Weight 170lb. 29. I'm trying to bring the overall firmness down a bit. I currently run 74IRT and 42 Main, but have HSC and LSC both all open. (Rev A) 

In comparison to my rear (mara pro) the front just seems a bit firm on faster hits. I'd like to have it be a closer match the rear and then adjust with the HSC and/or LSC if i want to firm it up.

Just trying to get a little better understanding of how adjust IRT or Main adjusts the firmness/feel at various along the stroke vs blindly adding or removing air.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

wildh said:


> Curious on your input for those that have played a lot with the fork. I'm working to fine tune it for my liking, and would love your input.
> 
> 150mm travel. Weight 170lb. 29. I'm trying to bring the overall firmness down a bit. I currently run 74IRT and 42 Main, but have HSC and LSC both all open. (Rev A)
> 
> ...


What is your front sag in the attack position?

It's possible with that main pressure, you are sitting deep in the stroke and getting into the IRT when hitting bumps. Maybe using more main pressure and/or LSC will keep you in a better position to absorb them.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> To hopefully make this easier for anybody wondering:
> 
> Upper Left: Original bumpers?, metal reinforced rubber. Seem undersized, don't fit snug and can move out of position. Still captured by rod running through them, but conceivably could be caught and crushed at an angle on bottom out.
> 
> ...


Great photos.
The original unreinforced rubber was the first batch I've seen. I had those in my Mezzer. All my replacement lowers (end 2019) have the split bushing same as your photo above.

We have a complete rebuild kit here with the metal backed rubber bumpers. But the rebuild kits don't have production dates anywhere.


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> What is your front sag in the attack position?
> 
> It's possible with that main pressure, you are sitting deep in the stroke and getting into the IRT when hitting bumps. Maybe using more main pressure and/or LSC will keep you in a better position to absorb them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I'm at 35mm on 150mm travel. Roughly 23%. I'll maybe try bringing the main up a few psi. The early stroke is dictated primarily by main pressure?


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Dougal said:


> Great photos.
> The original unreinforced rubber was the first batch I've seen. I had those in my Mezzer. All my replacement lowers (end 2019) have the split bushing same as your photo above.
> 
> We have a complete rebuild kit here with the metal backed rubber bumpers. But the rebuild kits don't have production dates anywhere.


I have an early build. I bought it only a month ago but it's got early bumpers. I know this because the both came loose when I adjusted the travel before install. A real bugger to get back in place!

Hayes said they'd send me new lowers, but I haven't heard back from them since that first email 2 weeks ago. Not that big of a deal at the moment, but they do seem to be standing behind the stuff.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

wildh said:


> I have an early build. I bought it only a month ago but it's got early bumpers. I know this because the both came loose when I adjusted the travel before install. A real bugger to get back in place!
> 
> Hayes said they'd seems me know lowers, but I haven't heard back from them since that first email 2 weeks ago. Not that big of a deal at the moment, but they do seem to be standing behind the stuff.


Are you in the US? I'd give them a call. Their email support is super backed up. Call and give them the email reference number and I bet you'll have new lowers shipped that day.


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

megablue said:


> Are you in the US? I'd give them a call. Their email support is super backed up. Call and give them the email reference number and I bet you'll have new lowers shipped that day.


I'll maybe give that at try tomorrow. Thx.


----------



## bigbrett (Jul 28, 2020)

Joining the party, as my Mezzer gets in tomorrow! 

Starting it at 160mm to put on my current bike to get a feel for it (XL GG The Smash 29). Should have a Geometron G1 XXL built up by the end of August so will bump up to 170 and transfer the fork to that bike if I am getting along with it. 

I'm 6'6" 215lbs, ride aggressively, 70/30 split between bike park and steep tech trails. Mostly riding in the Salt Lake City area, with plenty of Moab and Southern Utah trips to mix it up.

Mezzer will be replacing a Fox 36 Factory with Fit 4 damper and a RUNT + custom tune from Diaz. I currently run 210/105 PSI in the RUNT. Tend to like a slower rebound. Curious to see what I will end up with in IRT and how it differs from the RUNT.

Can't wait!!


----------



## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Bigbrett, congrats on Geometron G1 purchase.

I have just fitted a Mezzer 29/44 on my G1 and really liking it . I don’t think you will regret it. I’m running it 180 travel atm. H/A 61.5 deg on a hybrid set up.


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

megablue said:


> Are you in the US? I'd give them a call. Their email support is super backed up. Call and give them the email reference number and I bet you'll have new lowers shipped that day.


Well you were right... One call and it's here in two days. Gotta love that service.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

wildh said:


> Well you were right... One call and it's here in two days. Gotta love that service.


Told ya. I'm glad they were able to take care of you. Their customer service on the phone is A+. Enjoy your fork!


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

megablue said:


> Told ya. I'm glad they were able to take care of you. Their customer service on the phone is A+. Enjoy your fork!


I've been riding it for about a month. Liked it so much I bought a Mara Pro to replace my dpx2. The combo has really transformed my bike. I hadn't really considered Manitou in a while.... But wowza. IMHO far superior to the other big names I've ridden.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

wildh said:


> I've been riding it for about a month. Liked it so much I bought a Mara Pro to replace my dpx2. The combo has really transformed my bike. I hadn't really considered Manitou in a while.... But wowza. IMHO far superior to the other big names I've ridden.


That's the situation I'm in now. Had a DVO Diamond and topaz t3. Front end felt harsh, rear end was plush. Swapped to the mezzer. Now front end feels plush, rear end feels harsh. Lol I think one the Mara pro is back in stock I may be switching.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

megablue said:


> That's the situation I'm in now. Had a DVO Diamond and topaz t3. Front end felt harsh, rear end was plush. Swapped to the mezzer. Now front end feels plush, rear end feels harsh. Lol I think one the Mara pro is back in stock I may be switching.


I've got Mezzer front, McLeod King can rear on mine. Not as much adjustment for McLeod compared to Mara, but rides great

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Is it correct that the 27.5 versions don't currently have the vent valves?


----------



## flippin_kipper (Jul 30, 2020)

I just bought a pair of Mezzer forks from Wiggle (UK), which I have fitted. But when I was reducing the travel I noticed the bottom out bumper (it's the old type in the pictures above) had come out of place in one leg. I popped it back into place with a dowel, but would you guys recommend seeking a warranty replacement on the lowers, has anyone had any luck with this in the UK\EU? Or should I just ride them until and see how it goes? Excited to get out and give them a go.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

flippin_kipper said:


> I just bought a pair of Mezzer forks from Wiggle (UK), which I have fitted. But when I was reducing the travel I noticed the bottom out bumper (it's the old type in the pictures above) had come out of place in one leg. I popped it back into place with a dowel, but would you guys recommend seeking a warranty replacement on the lowers, has anyone had any luck with this in the UK\EU? Or should I just ride them until and see how it goes? Excited to get out and give them a go.


So the danger seems to be that if the bumper happened to be out of position and the stanchion caught it just right on a bottom out, it could get crushed and maybe damage something. It seems unlikely but since they are sending out new lowers for this problem, either they feel that these lowers will all develop bushing problems, or the loose bumpers are enough of an issue to replace the lowers. This seems odd since all of the bumpers are easily replaceable, including the newest version. Much of this is speculation on my part, but I have not seen the entire situation layed out in detail to verify what exactly all the concerns are. I can say that I very recently raised this issue via email upon observing that my bumpers were indeed still loose in my lowers, and a box with new lowers arrived soon after. I have had no functional issues with my fork with the old lowers and bumpers, it has always performed great. So my gut feeling is that since you have installed the fork already, you should pursue a warranty fix for the bumper issue, and ride and enjoy the fork until that is resolved. But it is your call, and I am not in the UK so I can't say what your warranty experience will be. Also, you probably already checked the inside of the IRT chamber for lube, if not you should do that too.

Here is a view on the possible issue with the bumper:










The original bumper I have seen is rubber with a metal washer or something cast into it. It is intended to rest directly on thin supports cast into the bottom of the lower. The rubber nubs on the bumper do not adequately hold it in place, they are too small to put enough pressure on the inside of the lower. The newest ones have bigger nubs and fit snug, plus a nylon washer to better support the bumper. The new bumper still has the internal metal washer. So if your older bumper were bouncing around as in the picture, it could catch awkwardly on the bottom of the lowers and wedge against the stanchion end on a bottom out. It would possibly damage something, maybe just crush the bumper, or maybe mess up the bottom of the stanchion or damper, which would be the worst case scenario. And while this seems very unlikely, again this is your decision.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

mike156 said:


> Is it correct that the 27.5 versions don't currently have the vent valves?


Not thought about it until you mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure all the people who've had RevB castings have been on 29ers.


----------



## HH4L (Jan 25, 2018)

I don't know where you are all living but here in Canada, the Mezzer is 1350 (about 1550$ tx in). Lyrik Ultimate 1335$, Fox 36 Performance Elite 2021 1330$, Cane Creek Helm about 1100$, Z1 coil 950$, Z1 air 900$, Suntour between 900-1000$, etc. Don't know for the ZEB but Fox 38 and Ohlins are more than the Mezzer... So I wouldn't consider it super cheap here in Canada!


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

So - I just pulled the lowers, and the bumpers are slotted. 
So far so good, right?

HOWEVER:
One of the bumpers doesn’t sit 100% straight inside the lower leg. I’m not able to loosen it by gentle knocking/shaking the lowers, so it seems like it’s seated fairly well. 

Should this be cause for concern (return/warranty), or should I mount the fork and go riding?

Appreciate any advice 

EDIT:
And does my bumpers being OK mean that the bushings are OK too?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

langen said:


> So - I just pulled the lowers, and the bumpers are slotted.
> So far so good, right?
> 
> HOWEVER:
> ...


Slotted bumpers means they are the updated Rev.A version so they should be good to go. The bumpers just press in, they can be pulled out and put back in, or just pressed down if it's not fully seated. It just needs to sit flat, like in the picture here from a couple of days ago, and not move to do its job. It may be that the rod bumped it a bit when you pulled the lowers off and it is as simple as needing a push down to flat again. Can you stick a dowel or something in there?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

A little off topic, but an interesting fork with a Manitou-like IRT. The shaft integrated coil spring is a cool concept. Especially if you could match the rate to your air pressure.

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-ne...cing-tech-to-the-front-of-your-mountain-bike/

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> So the danger seems to be that if the bumper happened to be out of position and the stanchion caught it just right on a bottom out, it could get crushed and maybe damage something. It seems unlikely but since they are sending out new lowers for this problem, either they feel that these lowers will all develop bushing problems, or the loose bumpers are enough of an issue to replace the lowers. This seems odd since all of the bumpers are easily replaceable, including the newest version. Much of this is speculation on my part, but I have not seen the entire situation layed out in detail to verify what exactly all the concerns are. I can say that I very recently raised this issue via email upon observing that my bumpers were indeed still loose in my lowers, and a box with new lowers arrived soon after. I have had no functional issues with my fork with the old lowers and bumpers, it has always performed great. So my gut feeling is that since you have installed the fork already, you should pursue a warranty fix for the bumper issue, and ride and enjoy the fork until that is resolved. But it is your call, and I am not in the UK so I can't say what your warranty experience will be. Also, you probably already checked the inside of the IRT chamber for lube, if not you should do that too.
> 
> Here is a view on the possible issue with the bumper:
> 
> ...


Yes that is the first generation bumpers and you should lodge a warranty claim to get new lowers.

Wiggle/CRC should have sorted that pre-sale.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> A little off topic, but an interesting fork with a Manitou-like IRT.


It's hilarious, not a single article I have seen about it mentions that it is basically an exact functional copy of Manitou's well established system. They are all spreading the hype like it was invented today. Although oddly enough Pinkbike did mention the little coil spring as being like the one in the DT Swiss 535 fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> A little off topic, but an interesting fork with a Manitou-like IRT. The shaft integrated coil spring is a cool concept. Especially if you could match the rate to your air pressure.
> 
> https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-ne...cing-tech-to-the-front-of-your-mountain-bike/
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Series coil and air was first done by Manitou in 2001 and kept rolling until 2018. They called it MARS.

But they offered up to 4 different spring rates to match your coil spring to your air spring.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Series coil and air was first done by Manitou in 2001 and kept rolling until 2018. They called it MARS.
> 
> But they offered up to 4 different spring rates to match your coil spring to your air spring.


Very cool. Do you know why they abandoned it? Did air spring friction just get reduced enough that the benefit diminished?

The Dorado air spring is so free at the top of stroke, it's hard to imagine needing more than that. The only time I notice any real friction is putting all my weight on the bars, then pulsing it. Hard to tell if that is bushing bind on a 64* HA, air spring seal friction at higher pressure, or both.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbrett (Jul 28, 2020)

bigbrett said:


> Joining the party, as my Mezzer gets in tomorrow!
> 
> Starting it at 160mm to put on my current bike to get a feel for it (XL GG The Smash 29). Should have a Geometron G1 XXL built up by the end of August so will bump up to 170 and transfer the fork to that bike if I am getting along with it.
> 
> ...


Alright team, first test ride on the books. Very positive initial impressions!!

Didn't have much time but took it out for a quick loop on a nice test trail (Corvair to Payroll, if you are familiar with Park City UT trails) that has a little bit of everything - undulating XC, off-camber and steep roots, a few poppy lips/trannys, 2-3 foot drops, and some loose + blown out berms.

Aired up to 105/75 (recommended pressure on the lowers for 220lb rider....I'm about 215) and fully open on all damping circuits for a little parking lot squish test. Fully open rebound matched the rear suspension pretty well, so didn't touch it. Could see myself adding one click of rebound damping in the future, but fully open was pretty evenly matched.

HSC/LSC fully open had relatively light parking-lot bouncing getting pretty deep into the midstroke. Added 6 clicks of LSC - didn't feel much difference. Moved up to fully-closed LSC and 2 clicks (from open) of HSC and felt a bit more support. Pushed off to go get some actual trail feedback.

Setting off on the climb, fork felt buttery smooth off the top. No perceivable stiction. Was wallowing a tiny bit and getting slightly more deep into the travel than I would expect on the climb, so gave two more clicks of HSC (4 from open). Debated adding more air to main chamber but many on this thread seem to recommend lower than expected pressures so went the damping route for experimental purposes. Also didn't feel like pulling out the pump.

Time to descend. First section is the XC part, with some off camber pumpy sections and root rolls. WOW this thing is supple off the top. Like butter! As things got more technical and intermixed with some brief spurts of out-of-the-saddle pedal strokes, I noticed I was still using about 3/4 of my travel. Super supple off the top, still not enough support in the midstroke for my tastes. Said **** it and fully closed HSC. So we are at both HSC/LSC fully closed now.

Bam, there was the support I wanted. Off-the-top suppleness reduced a bit, but fork felt a bit more like I'm used to (but better, I think...still softer off the top). Seemed to pump better and flow better than my Fit4 36+Runt (which I typically run fully open on the 3-way and LSC adjusters, with a hefty amount of rebound damping).

Overall, had a great ride and the fork felt good, but I imagine I should NOT be fully closed on HSC/LSC and am abusing the damper to get the support I should instead be getting from the air spring.

A few things to note and some questions:

1. Everyone seems to be saying the recommended settings are too stiff - I felt the opposite. Could it just be that my pump isn't that accurate?

2. If I want more support in the midstroke without too much of an effect on the off-the-top, should I put a little more air into the main chamber, the IRT, or both? I never bottomed out, but ended the ride at about 4/5 travel, maybe a bit more, which I would consider a little much for a trail without any real big hits. End-stroke ramp seemed to be doing its thing well-- unclear if I hit HBO, as I've never had a fork with it, but never felt any big aggressive ramp-up or harshness at the end.

3. I did feel like I was leaning my body a little more than I usually do - i.e. bike body separation felt harder to achieve. Unclear if this is related - maybe this is a consequence of the fork feeling soft? Also could be the geometry change (went from 51mm offset to 44mm, and also increased the A2C by 10mm I think).

Thoughts? Any advice appreciated


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Very cool. Do you know why they abandoned it? Did air spring friction just get reduced enough that the benefit diminished?
> 
> The Dorado air spring is so free at the top of stroke, it's hard to imagine needing more than that. The only time I notice any real friction is putting all my weight on the bars, then pulsing it. Hard to tell if that is bushing bind on a 64* HA, air spring seal friction at higher pressure, or both.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Manitou was running four different air springs for a while. It got messy.
Dorado Air (in the Dorado and Mattoc)
MARS Air (in the Pro level XC/Trail forks)
ISO Air (in the Expert/Pro level XC forks) is like TS Air but has a rubber bumper in series to take out vibration.
TS Air (in the Expert/comp level air forks) is a pos air, neg coil.

Now it is down to:
Dorado Air (pos and neg air)
Expert Air (cheaper version of Dorado Air)
TS Air (coil negative) in comp forks.

The MARS air was great when you got it setup but setup was a PITA. Fork lower legs off and compression rod out to change the MARS coil spring. Availability of springs (and matching plungers) was a part-number nightmare with about 4 different spring rates and different length plungers for the 2008-2018 forks and the same number again for each of 4 other fork types form 2001-2008.

They also had longer term issues with negative/topout coils breaking (fatigue) after many years use. Especially with bigger riders and more air-pressure. These springs were anchored into the CSU so not able to be changed by mortals.

The final hassle was travel change. You had to start cutting down compression rods.

So all up. Great system once dialled. Pain to maintain and really difficult to support.

The Dorado/Expert air system is sooo nice in comparison. Both to stock, service and setup. We've now got several rate negative springs for the cheaper TS Air and that's filling the low-mid price niche nicely.


----------



## flippin_kipper (Jul 30, 2020)

Thanks both, I have emailed Wiggle to see what they say, but will ride the fork until I hear back. I have a feeling they may require a few follow up emails to see any movement on this.

Dougal, did you say you may have a contact for Manitou UK or EU?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

bigbrett said:


> Alright team, first test ride on the books. Very positive initial impressions!!
> 
> Didn't have much time but took it out for a quick loop on a nice test trail (Corvair to Payroll, if you are familiar with Park City UT trails) that has a little bit of everything - undulating XC, off-camber and steep roots, a few poppy lips/trannys, 2-3 foot drops, and some loose + blown out berms.
> 
> ...


Glad to see you're liking it!

1. What pump are you using? I doubt your pump is very accurate. Try going by sag numbers rather than PSI. All pumps will read slightly different so you really want to go off sag, see what PSI works for your desired sag and then be able to replicate that number with your pump.

2. I'll let someone that has more time on their fork answer this one.

3. Sounds like you're feeling the slight difference in the offset numbers. 51mm is definitely slightly quicker turning and more nimble. 44mm is more slow turning but more stable at speed. In theory the 44mm offset is going to take a bit more body movement to get turning like your old fork did. There's nothing wrong with that, it'll just take a few rides to get used to. I went from 44mm to 51mm, it's definitely more nimble but the change is slight, feels like dropping my stem 10mm or cutting my bars 10mm.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> A little off topic, but an interesting fork with a Manitou-like IRT. The shaft integrated coil spring is a cool concept. Especially if you could match the rate to your air pressure.
> 
> https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-ne...cing-tech-to-the-front-of-your-mountain-bike/
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


This fork looks sick. However, for essentially $1,800 USD I'd rather buy a mezzer and a marzocchi z1 coil so I could have an air and a coil fork for the same price. Hopefully, the performance of the production models stands up. I'd hate to drop that kind of money and be disappointed


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

onzadog said:


> Not thought about it until you mentioned it, but I'm pretty sure all the people who've had RevB castings have been on 29ers.


My 27.5 has vent valves


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Who supplied those with the vent valves? Was it in Europe or the US?


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

onzadog said:


> Who supplied those with the vent valves? Was it in Europe or the US?


Raceware, italian Hayes supplier


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

flippin_kipper said:


> Thanks both, I have emailed Wiggle to see what they say, but will ride the fork until I hear back. I have a feeling they may require a few follow up emails to see any movement on this.
> 
> Dougal, did you say you may have a contact for Manitou UK or EU?


The UK Manitou agent is Hotlines, the same people own CRC/Wiggle and should have sorted that fork long ago.


----------



## flippin_kipper (Jul 30, 2020)

Well Wiggle have just confirmed they will accept the forks back for inspection so that they can sort the issue. Hopefully, they will be aware of the issue and provide me with a set of replacement lowers.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

I'm trying to pull out my IRT and make sure it's got enough lube on it. Should it feel like it's being suctioned down into the leg when I try and pull it out? I didn't want to force anything.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Open the valve on the bottom of the rod, that will let it suck air back in as you pull the IRT out.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

onzadog said:


> Open the valve on the bottom of the rod, that will let it suck air back in as you pull the IRT out.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I was trying to remove the IRT without dropping the lowers like some other people said was possible


----------



## flippin_kipper (Jul 30, 2020)

megablue said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I was trying to remove the IRT without dropping the lowers like some other people said was possible


Connect the shock pump to the bottom of the forks with the lowers still on and press the button that allows air out on the pump, this should open the valve which will allow air to be sucked in as you pull the IRT out which creates negative pressure.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

flippin_kipper said:


> Connect the shock pump to the bottom of the forks with the lowers still on and press the button that allows air out on the pump, this should open the valve which will allow air to be sucked in as you pull the IRT out which creates negative pressure.


Gotcha. I'll try that, thanks.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, what did the bushing issue sounds like when people had it? I've tried reading through the whole forum but I couldn't really find what they said the noise was like or why they thought they had the issue.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

megablue said:


> Just out of curiosity, what did the bushing issue sounds like when people had it? I've tried reading through the whole forum but I couldn't really find what they said the noise was like or why they thought they had the issue.


Bad cases felt like a loose headstock bearing when riding.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

springs said:


> Bad cases felt like a loose headstock bearing when riding.


Was it just felt or did it have any audible indications?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> Just out of curiosity, what did the bushing issue sounds like when people had it? I've tried reading through the whole forum but I couldn't really find what they said the noise was like or why they thought they had the issue.


To me it's an annoying play when the bike being moved around and usually can't be felt while riding.

It's gotta be an extremely loose bushing to be an audible or perceptible knock riding as the bath oil damps out the contact.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

I've been reading other threads about people making burnishing tools to sort bushing that are overly tight and having seen video of lowers not sliding off under their own weight to slipping smoothly afterwards it looks like bushing which are too tight are more of an issue on most forks (regardless of manufacturer) than bushing being too loose.

I remember the advice with my old 2005 fox 36 was to invert the fork before riding to get a good film of oil on the top bushing as they were hydrodynamic bearings. It seemed it work.

We're the "problem" bushings on early Mezzer out if spec loose, problematically loose or just unhappy customer loose? Why did manitou replace a load of lowers? The bottom out number issue could have been sorted by just replacing numbers couldn't it?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

megablue said:


> Was it just felt or did it have any audible indications?


Clearly felt when riding. I had three sets do it, one was way worse than the others but all three could be felt. New lowers seem to be holding up thankfully.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

megablue said:


> Just out of curiosity, what did the bushing issue sounds like when people had it? I've tried reading through the whole forum but I couldn't really find what they said the noise was like or why they thought they had the issue.


Mine case below. Recieved two like this late 2019. After second fork with the same problem I just gave up. Luckly I have money back without struggle. It just took some time. Max out volume.


----------



## edge540T (Jul 7, 2011)

There is a lot of messages... have you got some fix for original "freemoving bumpers"? IRT is amazing btw, no coil needed at all.


----------



## Shlec (Jan 21, 2018)

I have just bought a pair of Mezzers 29er short offset from star bike and I am looking forward to trying them out. 

What do people advise I do before riding them? I am tempted to just service the lowers with some rockshox gold (slippyest stuff I can get easily) just to make sure theres no machining debris left and the bottom out bumpers are flat down. 

Also are people having issues with rev b castings?

Cheers


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Shlec said:


> I have just bought a pair of Mezzers 29er short offset from star bike and I am looking forward to trying them out.
> 
> What do people advise I do before riding them? I am tempted to just service the lowers with some rockshox gold (slippyest stuff I can get easily) just to make sure theres no machining debris left and the bottom out bumpers are flat down.
> 
> ...


Haven't seen any problems reported with Rev. B lowers. The bumpers fit much better than the early ones, if you want to make sure they are flat just air down the fork and compress it to bottom out.

The only thing that needed attention on mine was the inside of the IRT chamber, you don't need to drop the lowers to check it. But if you were going to change travel or just want to be sure everything looks good, which is never a bad idea, dropping the lowers is easy. You could pour the bath oil into a couple of small cups and make sure the specified 21cc was in there, you could then reuse it although you may lose a bit in the process. But if you keep the lowers close to horizontal and are careful you don't have to lose any or change it, you could simply look down the legs and make sure there is a similar amount inside each side and that the bumpers look good. I assume you have downloaded the service guides?

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038198353-Mezzer-Pro


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

With all the talk about pulling lowers etc: The manual mentions Manitou semi bath oil for the lowers.

Can any 5w-40 oil be used (disregarding any viscosity differences), or does the semi bath oil offer any qualitative benefits?

It would have been nice to be able to use the Castrol oil I have used on previous forks..


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Where is the rigidity info for the Mezzer compared to other products?
I have began to really notice that delay I feel in my Yari when I really torque the steering quickly and the front wheel doesn't seem to keep up. 
Then again, it might not even be my fork and could be a result of a 29" wheel with Berd spokes.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> With all the talk about pulling lowers etc: The manual mentions Manitou semi bath oil for the lowers.
> 
> Can any 5w-40 oil be used (disregarding any viscosity differences), or does the semi bath oil offer any qualitative benefits?
> 
> ...


Lubricity varies a lot with motor oils.



Suns_PSD said:


> Where is the rigidity info for the Mezzer compared to other products?
> I have began to really notice that delay I feel in my Yari when I really torque the steering quickly and the front wheel doesn't seem to keep up.
> Then again, it might not even be my fork and could be a result of a 29" wheel with Berd spokes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Compared to the Lyrik it's supposed to be the same in torsion but stiffer fore/aft.
Compared to the F36 it's a lot stiffer in torsion, stiffer fore/aft too. Lyrik beats F36 in both those.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So I have a dumb question. I'm coming from DVO and their adjustment knobs work sort of backwards from normal so I'm a bit thrown off. Reading the Google doc of other people's setting on the mezzer, the HSC and LSC is measuring in clicks from closed. On the knob are we considering closed to be all the way towards the "-" symbol? In my mind that's all the way open lol.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> So I have a dumb question. I'm coming from DVO and their adjustment knobs work sort of backwards from normal so I'm a bit thrown off. Reading the Google doc of other people's setting on the mezzer, the HSC and LSC is measuring in clicks from closed. On the knob are we considering closed to be all the way towards the "-" symbol? In my mind that's all the way open lol.


"Closed" would mean maximum damping force; same as "+", or "tightening" the adjuster.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

megablue said:


> So I have a dumb question. I'm coming from DVO and their adjustment knobs work sort of backwards from normal so I'm a bit thrown off. Reading the Google doc of other people's setting on the mezzer, the HSC and LSC is measuring in clicks from closed. On the knob are we considering closed to be all the way towards the "-" symbol? In my mind that's all the way open lol.


All suspension adjustments on all vehicles is measured from full closed (clockwise) which is the damping maxed out.
If DVO is doing something different they are idiots.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> All suspension adjustments on all vehicles is measured from full closed (clockwise) which is the damping maxed out.
> If DVO is doing something different they are idiots.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Not really. Counting from closed or open is somewhat arbitrary. Depending on the actual assembly design, and the tolerance stacking, either "closed" or "open" can be more comparable between different serial numbers of the same model.

Manitou specs the HSC adjust on the Mara Pro from full open.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

If so, that's ridiculous. From fully closed is a standard across all suspension components. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> If so, that's ridiculous. From fully closed is a standard across all suspension components.


So everybody should design and manufacture their stuff to work the same way, to avoid being ridiculous? Do you think they chose that just to be different, or maybe they realized that it was more accurate for this particular adjuster to use fully open as the starting reference point?

If you are reading the specs to choose a starting point, is it too much to ask that you pay attention to the direction of adjustment?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> If so, that's ridiculous. From fully closed is a standard across all suspension components.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Are you an engineer? A machinist? Do you have any experience evaluating complex assemblies and the effect of tolerance stacking on their function?

If not, I don't see why you feel that you have footing to decide a particular convention is "ridiculous".

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

It's a standard in the industry, and fully open can vary, fully closed doesn't. 
That would be like a bike manufacturer calling their HTA 114 degrees, instead of 66 degrees. Sure they could do it, and we all know what they mean, but they are ignoring half a century of easily understandable convention. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> It's a standard in the industry, and fully open can vary, fully closed doesn't.
> That would be like a bike manufacturer calling their HTA 114 degrees, instead of 66 degrees. Sure they could do it, and we all know what they mean, but they are ignoring half a century of easily understandable convention.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


That is not always the case. In the situation of Manitou HSC, open is the consistent position (because of the way the adjuster works). Low speed orifice adjustments always use closed as the starting position across all companies.

That said, it's more true with the Mattoc, McLeod, Mara IL, and Mara Pro than it is with the Mezzer. Those all have adjustments that add preload to the shim stacks, and the consistent position is open, which has no float or preload. The closed position (max preload) can differ slightly based on tolerances, so count from open. The Mezzer is a more traditional spring pressure on shim stack to add stiffness, but it's best to keep instructions consistent between all products.

In reality, you can count anyway you want to keep track of your own settings since your particular damper will always have it's own tolerances and your clicks will always stay the same. Counting from the consistent position only matters when comparing to other people's set-ups.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Lubricity varies a lot with motor oils.
> 
> Compared to the Lyrik it's supposed to be the same in torsion but stiffer fore/aft.
> Compared to the F36 it's a lot stiffer in torsion, stiffer fore/aft too. Lyrik beats F36 in both those.


Any one have the actual test data? I only could come across some german message board and seemed like the test was without axle installed if I'm not mistaken, so not a true test of the system as a whole. I swapped from a lyrik and Mezzer definitely feels stiffer while hitting high speed berms and steers better through really chunky might send you over the bars type stuff.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> Where is the rigidity info for the Mezzer compared to other products?
> I have began to really notice that delay I feel in my Yari when I really torque the steering quickly and the front wheel doesn't seem to keep up.
> Then again, it might not even be my fork and could be a result of a 29" wheel with Berd spokes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Bro, I've told you, you can ride mine. I'm at spider mountain every weekend. We can pontificate all day long about x amount of stiffness, but you have an opportunity to test it out in person. You can even throw your front wheel on and see how it feels to see if its the wheel of fork stiffness. Feel free to PM me.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

wildh said:


> Curious on your input for those that have played a lot with the fork. I'm working to fine tune it for my liking, and would love your input.
> 
> 150mm travel. Weight 170lb. 29. I'm trying to bring the overall firmness down a bit. I currently run 74IRT and 42 Main, but have HSC and LSC both all open. (Rev A)
> 
> ...


Try to go down with IRT to 68 66 64 62 , to compensate mezzer progressive air spring , for me this worked well.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

These two documents are helpful in visualizing how IRT action affects the spring curve:

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ents/360055897974/IVA_and_IRT_Trail_Guide.pdf

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...ments/360056777993/Mattoc_IRT_Setup_Guide.pdf


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Well **** me. Put my forks on, started hearing a clicking/creaking noise. It's my CSU. Figures I'd get a fork with an issue that hasn't really been an issue with these forks. I'm super pissed that I'm having to start a warranty on my week old fork.

Is a creaky CSU ok to ride on? I'm really not trying to be without my fork for 3 weeks. I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO and was planning on sending the mezzer into Hayes once my diamond makes it back. 

A faulty diamond and faulty mezzer at the same time. I have the worst luck.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> Well **** me. Put my forks on, started hearing a clicking/creaking noise. It's my CSU. Figures I'd get a fork with an issue that hasn't really been an issue with these forks. I'm super pissed that I'm having to start a warranty on my week old fork.
> 
> Is a creaky CSU ok to ride on? I'm really not trying to be without my fork for 3 weeks. I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO and was planning on sending the mezzer into Hayes once my diamond makes it back.
> 
> A faulty diamond and faulty mezzer at the same time. I have the worst luck.


Well that sucks. You don't still have that "bonus" Mezzer?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Well that sucks. You don't still have that "bonus" Mezzer?


Nah I contacted Manitou about that and returned it, which I still haven't received my refund for although they have had the fork back for over a week now.

I'm super bummed. The fork feels fantastic but I'm pretty upset that it's already having issues. I was hoping I waited long enough for them to be solved.


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

megablue said:


> Well **** me. Put my forks on, started hearing a clicking/creaking noise. It's my CSU. Figures I'd get a fork with an issue that hasn't really been an issue with these forks. I'm super pissed that I'm having to start a warranty on my week old fork.
> 
> Is a creaky CSU ok to ride on? I'm really not trying to be without my fork for 3 weeks. I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO and was planning on sending the mezzer into Hayes once my diamond makes it back.
> 
> A faulty diamond and faulty mezzer at the same time. I have the worst luck.


Spewing mate. I ordered a mezzer to replace the grip2 36 on my g16 specifically because I hadn't read of any documented cases of a creaking steerer. Hopefully they sort it out quickly for you.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

thedrizzle said:


> Spewing mate. I ordered a mezzer to replace the grip2 36 on my g16 specifically because I hadn't read of any documented cases of a creaking steerer. Hopefully they sort it out quickly for you.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


Yeah I'm not happy. Mine is the only case I've seen of a creaky CSU.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> Well **** me. Put my forks on, started hearing a clicking/creaking noise. It's my CSU. Figures I'd get a fork with an issue that hasn't really been an issue with these forks. I'm super pissed that I'm having to start a warranty on my week old fork.
> 
> Is a creaky CSU ok to ride on? I'm really not trying to be without my fork for 3 weeks. I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO and was planning on sending the mezzer into Hayes once my diamond makes it back.
> 
> A faulty diamond and faulty mezzer at the same time. I have the worst luck.


That is odd. Is there any indication of where it's coming from and does the fork do it on the bench?

Normally a creaking/clicking CSU takes a bit of riding start making noise as it's fretting that takes a bit of movement to develop. Making noise out the gate is possibly something else.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Dougal said:


> That is odd. Is there any indication of where it's coming from and does the fork do it on the bench?
> 
> Normally a creaking/clicking CSU takes a bit of riding start making noise as it's fretting that takes a bit of movement to develop. Making noise out the gate is possibly something else.


The only time I notice it on a trail of after a hard impact, or if I weight the front of the bike a lot and then shift my weight back.

Haven't had it in a vice grips yet but I tested it using this video: 




Basically flipped the bike, took the wheel out, took the axle out, and then grabbed each leg and wiggled them back and forth using a little bit of effort. This audibly causes the clicking noise. Sounds to me like it's coming from the right stanchion but it's hard to tell. It doesn't click with every impact or Everytime I move the fork legs, but enough that it seems to be the cause.

I can't think of anything else it could possibly be. I've taken the front end apart 3 times now, cleaned it, regressed and reassembled and it's still there. It's not very loud and on the trail you have to listen for it but I'm really anal about my rig and take steps to make it as quiet as I can and this click is killing me.


----------



## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Remind me again how awesome this fork is?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Blatant said:


> Remind me again how awesome this fork is?


The fork is amazing and blows any other stock air fork out of the water. If you think Rockshox and fox don't have creaky CSU issues then you're going to be sad.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> The only time I notice it on a trail of after a hard impact, or if I weight the front of the bike a lot and then shift my weight back.
> 
> Haven't had it in a vice grips yet but I tested it using this video:
> 
> ...


Forcing stanchions together/apart is a great way to confirm a stanchion tick/creak. Steerer creak/tick is silent in that test but heard on whole fork fore/aft reversals. If you've got either of those then get it warrantied.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Forcing stanchions together/apart is a great way to confirm a stanchion tick/creak. Steerer creak/tick is silent in that test but heard on whole fork fore/aft reversals. If you've got either of those then get it warrantied.


Yeah I'm pretty positive it's stanchion creak. Would it be ok to ride on for a few weeks? I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO. I just can't be without a fork for like 3 weeks lol I'd go nuts


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

megablue said:


> Someone at Hayes is going to have some explaining to do.
> 
> I originally ordered from Hayes, ended up with a better deal (sort of) at Jenson. Called Hayes and cancelled my order. I received an email that day from a customer service manager saying that he confirmed it did not ship, they processed the refund and that it would be back in my account within 72 hours.
> 
> I got my money back this morning, and this afternoon I receive a package at my doorstep. Odd because I didn't expect anything. Its the mezzer from Hayes. So I have the fork that was returned and my money back. Hayes is lucky I'm an honest person lol. Waiting to hear back from them to see what they want me to do with it.





megablue said:


> Nah I contacted Manitou about that and returned it, which I still haven't received my refund for although they have had the fork back for over a week now.
> 
> I'm super bummed. The fork feels fantastic but I'm pretty upset that it's already having issues. I was hoping I waited long enough for them to be solved.


Curious - did you or did you not receive a refund?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

kwapik said:


> Curious - did you or did you not receive a refund?


They told me the day it was "cancelled" that they processed the refund. I never received it. When I emailed them saying that the fork was still sent to me they cancelled the refund until the fork was back in their possession and would issue a new refund (basically incentive for me to actually return the fork that they accidentally sent me).

So no, I have not yet received any money back from hayes.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> Yeah I'm pretty positive it's stanchion creak. Would it be ok to ride on for a few weeks? I'm waiting on my diamond to get back from DVO. I just can't be without a fork for like 3 weeks lol I'd go nuts


Stanchions are captive as long as the caps are on. So it's safe. There are endless people out there riding creaking forks.
But this brand actually cares and will fix it.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Stanchions are captive as long as the caps are on. So it's safe. There are endless people out there riding creaking forks.
> But this brand actually cares and will fix it.


My only other thought could be from when I opened up the IRT side. Creaking started after that. I torqued it to spec but I don't think I greased the cap threads. Could a slightly low torque on the cap possibly cause the creak? Could be something for me to double check before I send it in maybe?


----------



## Hatchy (Aug 4, 2020)

megablue said:


> The only time I notice it on a trail of after a hard impact, or if I weight the front of the bike a lot and then shift my weight back.
> 
> Haven't had it in a vice grips yet but I tested it using this video:
> 
> ...


Is the creaking sound like this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytpkb79gx6tt2gl/20200520_142552.mp4?dl=0

My Mezzer developed creaking over a month ago. I did the threadlocker trick shown in youtube video and it definitely decreased the noise. I haven't sent it back because don't have spare fork.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Mine sounds very similar to that but no where close to being that loud.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Hatchy said:


> Is the creaking sound like this:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytpkb79gx6tt2gl/20200520_142552.mp4?dl=0
> 
> My Mezzer developed creaking over a month ago. I did the threadlocker trick shown in youtube video and it definitely decreased the noise. I haven't sent it back because don't have spare fork.


What production date did yours have? I wonder if this is an early run issue. Mine are August of 2019 but had the revision B fixes done by Manitou


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

need a little help folks-

1. - I am the 25hr mark and should be putting 5cc of semi bath oil/leg. I have the B revision casting with the pressure relief screws.
According to the instruction I need to get a Manitou Syringe--- but I cannot seem to find it on their website nor on the net. Do I really need it?-
- I have tried calling/emailing Hayes directly but still awaiting answer.


2. In regards to putting oil into the IRT-- I guess I would use a standard Shimano BB tool to remove the IRT cap and then put in a ml or 2 of semi bath oil.?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Man....sucks the stories of creaking forks. I had creaking from front of my bike...turned out that the Renthal stem I had didn't want to play with the Mezzer steerer no matter what I did. Changed it out and sound is gone. I had thought it might be CSU originally, but stem fixed it 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

My mattoc creaked, my yari, my Metric, my Durokux, now the mezzer, and Ill see the next. Months if my tuned fox 36 rhythm in my other bike will start to as well.

Took the wheel out, turned the legs in every direction and many places seemed to creak. Cannot say if only the steerer or the stanchions do it, too. Will send it to Hayes tomorrow.

@Dougal 
Could manitou, as they are over 200 grams kigjter than the Zeb anyway not put a bit of material on the crown to increase stiffness and more hold for the steerer to make one of the only forks without creaking? ;-)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

locominute said:


> need a little help folks-
> 
> 1. - I am the 25hr mark and should be putting 5cc of semi bath oil/leg. I have the B revision casting with the pressure relief screws.
> According to the instruction I need to get a Manitou Syringe--- but I cannot seem to find it on their website nor on the net. Do I really need it?-
> ...


I haven't got the Manitou syringes either! Same M5 threads as Shimano brake and RS Reverb bleed syringes and those use mineral based fluids. Do not use brake tools for contamination reasons.

Don't use oil in the air-spring. Use Slickoleum grease. Oil migrates down to the negative chamber.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> My mattoc creaked, my yari, my Metric, my Durokux, now the mezzer, and Ill see the next. Months if my tuned fox 36 rhythm in my other bike will start to as well.
> 
> Out the wheel out, turned the legs in every direction and many places seened to creak. Comnat say if only steerer or the stanchions do it, too. Will send it to Hayes tomorrow


Creaking headtubes and CSU's isn't a Manitou issue, it's an issue wide issue right now. Although fox definitely seems to be the most plagued by it. My mezzer creaks very lightly which I will eventually get fixed by Manitou.

My lyrik creaked, my fox 36 elite grip 2 creaked, my first diamond creaked, so on and so on. I think this is an issue of bikes getting slacker headtube angles and still running single crown forks. I think it's just stressing the forks.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

So - first ride on the new Mezzer last night. 
Too early to get a proper feel for it, but I have a couple of observations/questions:

1: There is some static friction (I assume from the air side) when the fork is compressed after having been still for a little while. Not only after taking it out of the shed, but also on the trail after just a short stand-still. 

2: The fork makes a wheezing/squeezing sound, mainly on the return stroke, which is quite noticable.

Are these a symptome of the fork being brand new, and will diminish over time?
Tips to get rid of this behaviour?


Spring and dampers settings: Work in progress... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

langen said:


> So - first ride on the new Mezzer last night.
> Too early to get a proper feel for it, but I have a couple of observations/questions:
> 
> 1: There is some static friction (I assume from the air side) when the fork is compressed after having been still for a little while. Not only after taking it out of the shed, but also on the trail after just a short stand-still.
> ...


I can't comment on the stiction as mine has basically none. But the noise you are hearing is normal and is just oil passing through shims


----------



## Hatchy (Aug 4, 2020)

megablue said:


> What production date did yours have? I wonder if this is an early run issue. Mine are August of 2019 but had the revision B fixes done by Manitou


Mine are also August 2019. It's bought from Bike-discount.de in January 2020. No green dots, no bleed ports, old style non-slotted bottom out bumbers which doesn't stay in places and little play in bushings which doesn't bother me.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Hatchy said:


> Mine are also August 2019. It's bought from Bike-discount.de in January 2020. No green dots, no bleed ports, old style non-slotted bottom out bumbers which doesn't stay in places and little play in bushings which doesn't bother me.


Yeah I'm guessing this is an early run issue. Oh well it's not a huge deal. Once I get my other fork back I'll contact Hayes and get this one warrantied


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> So - first ride on the new Mezzer last night.
> Too early to get a proper feel for it, but I have a couple of observations/questions:
> 
> 1: There is some static friction (I assume from the air side) when the fork is compressed after having been still for a little while. Not only after taking it out of the shed, but also on the trail after just a short stand-still.
> ...


I believe the stiction after sitting is breaking suction between the lips of the quad-ring air-seals. This takes a little time to form as the seal sits. I have been meaning to test o-rings instead to see if it goes away. But I haven't had the opportunity.

The damper noise is shims working. Completely normal but some oils make it louder and some quieter.


----------



## CraftedLove (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi, I'm from the Philippines and I'm planning to get a Mezzer. Just some quick questions. 

A brand new 2020 Lyrik Ultimate retails at ~$800 here, while a 2020 Mezzer Pro is ~$600. Is this normal? I thought the prices in the US are nearly the same for these two forks, so either the distributor for the Mezzer got lucky or are there other reasons for this? I'm hearing some discussions above about early runs and mentions of "revision B fixes", so those are probable explanations, right? To be sure, how do I determine if the specific fork they have is from a problematic batch/run? I'm just concerned about these potential issues as I can't easily send in a faulty fork once I've bought it.

Thanks.

EDIT: Figured it out.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Dougal said:


> I believe the stiction after sitting is breaking suction between the lips of the quad-ring air-seals. This takes a little time to form as the seal sits. I have been meaning to test o-rings instead to see if it goes away. But I haven't had the opportunity.
> 
> The damper noise is shims working. Completely normal but some oils make it louder and some quieter.


Thanks!


----------



## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

langen said:


> S
> 1: There is some static friction (I assume from the air side) when the fork is compressed after having been still for a little while. Not only after taking it out of the shed, but also on the trail after just a short stand-still.
> 
> 2: The fork makes a wheezing/squeezing sound, mainly on the return stroke, which is quite noticable.


I also notice stiction developing very quickly after only a few seconds of sitting. I assumed it was due to the much tighter SKF seals, coming from the mattoc/magnum with the low friction seals. But reading dougals reply, he thinks it could be the quad ring. I guess you or I could test the lowers without the foot nuts installed to see if the dust seals are contributing to the friction. But I defer to Dougals expertise on the matter. Regardless, I can't feel the stiction while riding.

The wheezing seems to be normal, I've had lots of forks, especially bladder dampers, that make similar noise.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

GuitsBoy said:


> I also notice stiction developing very quickly after only a few seconds of sitting. I assumed it was due to the much tighter SKF seals, coming from the mattoc/magnum with the low friction seals. But reading dougals reply, he thinks it could be the quad ring. I guess you or I could test the lowers without the foot nuts installed to see if the dust seals are contributing to the friction. But I defer to Dougals expertise on the matter. Regardless, I can't feel the stiction while riding.


Yep - it only takes a few seconds.
I did the lower leg service on Monday, and I'm quite sure the lowers slid very easily on the stanchions, so I think this probably is quad ring related. Hopefully it will diminish over time as things settle...
And as you say - not noticable when riding.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

thanks!
I will looks for those bleed syringes.I already ordered the supergliss 100k for the semi bath oil from you


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

so about 1 to 2 ml of slickoleum in the IRT?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

locominute said:


> so about 1 to 2 ml of slickoleum in the IRT?


It's not really about how much, but where you put it.

Just make sure the seal itself is well greased (maybe with a little extra just above the seal, and that you have greased the inside of the stanchion where the piston rides.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

locominute said:


> so about 1 to 2 ml of slickoleum in the IRT?


Coat the shaft and slide the piston up and down to get the grease into the seal. On the piston fill the groove around the oring with grease.

That's all the grease the IRT needs.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Mezzer is really shining here:






Mammoth bike park - basically a bunch of steep, loose, volcanic rock ("kitty litter") strewn with rocks - big and small. Been going here for years with various bikes, and I am smashing PRs. Mezzer is really really good at speed. Seems to get better the faster I go, which is unlike any other fork I have ridden to date. I have it set to 170mm now and reduced the IRT /main chamber pressure a bit. I think I like it a bit less progressive on the air spring.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

I agree with running it more linear than progressive. Running closer to trail recommendations vs enduro for IRT. Otherwise it stays too high in it's travel and doesn't match the rear end and cornering suffers. Although it makes me really want to try one on a hardcore hardtail.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Ok, So I got me fork back from Hayes with the new lowers. They have the air bleed ports but they are just bolts. I was told the update to actual air bleed valves is in the works. But no I have another problem and it must be a damaged seal or something. I can air up the IRT and it holds pressure. When I air up the lower leg to say 35 psi I can watch the gauge leak down slowly half upon a second or two. The fork then feels locked out. I can crack open the bleed valve bolt and its full pressurized and the fork then compresses smoothly. So Im not sure what's up. I was hoping to hear today from Zach at Hayes but nothing today. Any thoughts or direction. Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Ok, So I got me fork back from Hayes with the new lowers. They have the air bleed ports but they are just bolts. I was told the update to actual air bleed valves is in the works. But no I have another problem and it must be a damaged seal or something. I can air up the IRT and it holds pressure. When I air up the lower leg to say 35 psi I can watch the gauge leak down slowly half upon a second or two. The fork then feels locked out. I can crack open the bleed valve bolt and its full pressurized and the fork then compresses smoothly. So Im not sure what's up. I was hoping to hear today from Zach at Hayes but nothing today. Any thoughts or direction. Thanks


You think it's negative air leaking to the lowers?

Zac will sort you.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Although I'm a little annoyed with my creaking stanchion, I really am happy with this thing.

I got my dad a 2021 fox 36 factory grip 2 because it was what he wanted. I got it all set up on his bike today and I took our bikes out for a ride for a back to back comparison. And man, the mezzer blows it out of the water. Don't get me wrong the 21 fox 36 feels much better than any other 36 that I have felt before now but it's still no where close to the mezzer both in small bump compliance and midstroke support.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

So what's the consensus? I've got a Mezzer on the way.

Do I run it as is?
Do a lowers and air spring/IRT lube?
Pick up a burnishing tool to fit and do the bushings?

I would try the superglide if it was available but it's not really. I've got maxima 10wt plush fluid or Maxima 15wt fork oil. Use one of those or pick up something else?

Figured dynamic seal grease in the air spring parts. Slickoliem for the other seals.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

mike156 said:


> So what's the consensus? I've got a Mezzer on the way.
> 
> Do I run it as is?
> Do a lowers and air spring/IRT lube?
> ...


My bath oil was fine but the IRT needed a bit of slickoleum on it. But I would still check your bath oil.

You don't need to get a burnishing tool. Where are you located? Chances are you'll get a revised version and it will be fine.

Skip the maxima, get motorex power synt 4t 5w40


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I’ve got a few rides on the mezzer now. What an impressive fork. I slapped it on and took it straight to the bike park. Conditions were quite dry with the ground is super hard. When it’s like that it tends to beat the crap out of your hands. The small bump is unreal. Best of any fork I’ve ridden. Coming off a runted 36 I expect it to be a little better but damn it’s great. Feels frictionless. Still working out pressures as I’m probably running a bit high. I haven’t gotten into the HBO yet. Dougal what would you suggest as a starting point for a 200lb rider in a sb150?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jimarin said:


> I've got a few rides on the mezzer now. What an impressive fork. I slapped it on and took it straight to the bike park. Conditions were quite dry with the ground is super hard. When it's like that it tends to beat the crap out of your hands. The small bump is unreal. Best of any fork I've ridden. Coming of a runted 36 I expect it to be a little better but damn it's great. Feels frictionless. Still working out pressures as I'm probably running a bit high. I haven't gotten into the HBO yet. Dougal what would you suggest as a starting point for a 200lb rider in a sb150?


Check out our setup repository: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit?usp=drivesdk

It will give you an idea of where people are landing around your weight and travel config.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Thanks for that. Looks like people’s setting vary quite a bit but most are below recommended.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Thanks CCS86! A lot of variation but an average of 10 psi below recommended shows room to experiment.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

from an NSMB article by Andrew Majors
https://nsmb.com/articles/riding-tall-manitou-mezzer-pro-irt-fork/

'
"My suggestion is to first air up the IRT chamber to 1/2 naked body-weight and then air up the positive/negative chamber to 1/3 naked body-weight and then bracket both the total positive/negative pressure and the gap between main pressure and IRT pressure to find your best personal settings. If it helps I'm running 20% sag."


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

locominute said:


> from an NSMB article by Andrew Majors
> https://nsmb.com/articles/riding-tall-manitou-mezzer-pro-irt-fork/
> 
> '
> "My suggestion is to first air up the IRT chamber to 1/2 naked body-weight and then air up the positive/negative chamber to 1/3 naked body-weight and then bracket both the total positive/negative pressure and the gap between main pressure and IRT pressure to find your best personal settings. If it helps I'm running 20% sag."


The thing about that method is that it doesn't take into account travel. On a fork with a 40mm travel range you can't really neglect that. The Manitou guide has roughly a 4psi change per 10mm of travel change. So, 16psi across the full range, which is a lot.

I'm 156lb naked, running 140mm travel (so I will be on the higher end of pressure).

I run IRT at 82psi, not too far off 156/2 = 78psi. But 4 psi is significant. And longer travel will likely want it even lower.

I run main at 43psi, and that is a lot lower than 156/3 = 52psi. This nets me about 23% sag.

Maybe I'll try to create a new worksheet that will spit out recommendations using the averages we've established to modify the base Manitou guide values.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Messiah (Apr 18, 2019)

So please everyone tell me more about how the Mezza doesn't creak??.... Oh wait maybe they are all one of the first versions that Manitou later picked up the niggles on.

Seems like Manitou are just like Fox and Rockshox and doing all the testing on the general public.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

The Messiah said:


> So please everyone tell me more about how the Mezza doesn't creak??.... Oh wait maybe they are all one of the first versions that Manitou later picked up the niggles on.
> 
> Seems like Manitou are just like Fox and Rockshox and doing all the testing on the general public.


Oh you are here too spreading your positivity.....

Given how long the Mezzer has been out now the cases of creaking CSU's compared to Fox has been tiny even if we only compare it to the 38...that had multiple users reporting creaking out of the box. Single crown forks will eventually creak if used hard enough for long enough, replace or fix them and keep riding.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The Messiah said:


> So please everyone tell me more about how the Mezza doesn't creak??.... Oh wait maybe they are all one of the first versions that Manitou later picked up the niggles on.
> 
> Seems like Manitou are just like Fox and Rockshox and doing all the testing on the general public.


These are only ones I've heard of and the first Mezzer were made over a year ago. I'll let you do the maths on percentages. Those riders will also be taken care of.

I have had Mattoc and Mezzer forks out under 180+kg riders (Yes that's over 400lb). With no problems:

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bsh5ZZqFQjn/


__
http://instagr.am/p/B3jVCi6H5pW/

So yeah. Over the last 5 years I'd rate Manitou crowns as the most creak free in the industry.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Dougal said:


> These are only ones I've heard of and the first Mezzer were made over a year ago. I'll let you do the maths on percentages. Those riders will also be taken care of.
> 
> I have had Mattoc and Mezzer forks out under 180+kg riders (Yes that's over 400lb). With no problems:
> 
> ...


Yep. Manitou has already taken care of me. Opened up a case, documented my creak and told me to send it to them whenever I'm ready, even said if I wanted to wait until the winter when I'm not riding as often that would be fine too.

There have been what, 3 cases of creaks on here including me? Go to any forum on the 34, 36, or 38. There are too many cases to count.

These people come on here and act like a small batch of issues make this fork terrible. Even with my creak I would take the creaky fork that feels like butter rather than anything else. I've also had a lyrik and fox 36 performance creak.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

The Messiah said:


> So please everyone tell me more about how the Mezza doesn't creak??.... Oh wait maybe they are all one of the first versions that Manitou later picked up the niggles on.
> 
> Seems like Manitou are just like Fox and Rockshox and doing all the testing on the general public.


How many CSU issues have you been able to count here? 3. Exactly 3. Try counting the forum posts from people riding 34s, 36s, 38s, and lyriks that have creaky forks. You won't be able to count.

If you don't like Manitou, that's fine. But don't sit here and act like their forks are worse off than any other companies. I've got 3 forks to choose from right now, my mezzer, a 2020 DVO diamond, and a 2021 fox 36 factory grip 2. Yet, I still ride the mezzer.


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Dropped the lowers on a set just now and found that it has the first version of the bottom out bumpers, the ones that come loose. Slid the lowers off horizontally to keep the oil in there and both bottom out bumpers are now up near the lower bushing and one is upside down relative to the other.

Also noticed that the bottom bushings are slotted. This surprised me as I thought earlier in this thread, a different manufacturer was being berated for using slotted bushing and how it accelerates wear on the stanchions.

Is the use of slotted bushings normal with manitou or is this one if the things that has been picked up in running changes?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

onzadog said:


> Also noticed that the bottom bushings are slotted. This surprised me as I thought earlier in this thread, a different manufacturer was being berated for using slotted bushing and how it accelerates wear on the stanchions.
> 
> Is the use of slotted bushings normal with manitou or is this one if the things that has been picked up in running changes?


The lower bushings are slotted on all versions, 4 narrow slots. It's not a problem, it just helps get more bath oil to the upper bushing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Okay, I took the Manitou setup guide values, cleaned up some small inconsistencies, then adjusted based on the averages we are seeing across about 20 riders.

On the second tab/sheet, there is still a calculator that uses the original Manitou values, but below that, you can use my new calculator:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPnh-oYncla19GutzWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

*regarding manitou tools*

can I just purchase the cut out hg cassette tool alone?
apart from the other 2 tools?
it appears I won't need the other 2 items to take apart the fork. / remove the air spring

will this do the trick?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-SHIMAN...065081&hash=item1a83a7f8aa:g:3tAAAOSw7gxekB4V


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

locominute said:


> can I just purchase the cut out hg cassette tool alone?
> apart from the other 2 tools?
> it appears I won't need the other 2 items to take apart the fork. / remove the air spring
> 
> ...


You don't need a cut out cassette tool. Connect the air pump to the valve and press the pump release valve to enable you to compress the rod fully. Remove the pump and a standard cassette tool reaches fine.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

But you need a whole in the cassette tool. One with none does not work


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> But you need a whole in the cassette tool. One with none does not work


*hole


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Got a March 2020 build 27.5 and it has the vent valves.

2049g with the uncut steerer
41g for the fender and hardware


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

do you have real valves? or do you mean the screw?

Has anybody a hint for nice air bleeding valves to buy and install?


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

Does the Mezzer "need" a bleed valve? I thought these were more use for the oil channel to the top bushing/foam ring that they provide and the ability to add a little oil as an interim service.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Mx bleeding valve... Cheap one from ali express:-D


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

You are free to keep the W :thumbsup:


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> you are free to keep the w :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

This fork looks damn good especially for the price.
Still, saw some good prices on used lyrik, that +hc97+dsd/awk or avy cart would still be around 900€.
Worth it playing with parts or just grab a mezzer? 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

romulin said:


> This fork looks damn good especially for the price.
> Still, saw some good prices on used lyrik, that +hc97+dsd/awk or avy cart would still be around 900€.
> Worth it playing with parts or just grab a mezzer?
> 
> Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


Had a Lyrik ultimate with both HC97 and Runt.
Mezzer still much better.
Had the Lyrik with HC97 and Smashpot (coil). Mezzer still much better.
Haven't ridden anything Avy, but I doubt he will get you sorted along with that used fork for 900. Craig will advise not only the Cartridge to sort out the Lyrik's improper dampening unit(Mezzer unit is by far superior than Lyrik stock or even HC97, which just felt like no dampening tbh), but will likely also try to push you to get the hybrid coil setup to correct the air side(mezzer with IRT allows you to dial in air pressure for small bump without losing mid-support or bottoming out harshly). Those two bits run up the tab to a tidy $690 and thats if you don't choose to add the hydraulic bottom out (which the Mezzer has) which adds another $89 for a total of appx $780. Now granted, everyone who runs his stuff says it's excellent...but you're gonna pay likely what the Mezzer costs just in parts to put into a Lyrik.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I recently dove into internet history and found a comment where someone asked Craig why he was backing away from tuning Manitou products, this was years ago (2010ish) and Craig's response (paraphrasing) was that Manitou was so close to what he thought was a "proper" damper that it wasn't worth him trying to improve on their stuff. He basically only offered custom compression/rebound stack tuning for their stuff. 

Now granted, Manitou is now using the same bladder systems as others, but they were obviously on the right track a long time ago.

Further proof of this the EXT ERA's hybrid coil/air positive coil spring...a modern interpretation of the now ancient MARS AIR system.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

PHeller said:


> I recently dove into internet history and found a comment where someone asked Craig why he was backing away from tuning Manitou products, this was years ago (2010ish) and Craig's response (paraphrasing) was that Manitou was so close to what he thought was a "proper" damper that it wasn't worth him trying to improve on their stuff. He basically only offered custom compression/rebound stack tuning for their stuff.
> 
> Now granted, Manitou is now using the same bladder systems as others, but they were obviously on the right track a long time ago.
> 
> Further proof of this the EXT ERA's hybrid coil/air positive coil spring...a modern interpretation of the now ancient MARS AIR system.


Craig pretty much indicated same thing on the phone with me when i was contemplating putting Ava stuff into my Lyrik or going with the Mezzer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Well, I'm currently on a Lyrik with a Runt, Avy cartridge with FvAT/HSB, Debonair B1, Enduro Hyglide seals and have burnished the bushings. I don't think there is a better Lyrik build really available?

I'll offer my comparative review after I get some time on it. My abilities and desires will undoubtedly bias my perspective though.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

springs said:


> You don't need a cut out cassette tool. Connect the air pump to the valve and press the pump release valve to enable you to compress the rod fully. Remove the pump and a standard cassette tool reaches fine.


Thank you -- will do.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Coat the shaft and slide the piston up and down to get the grease into the seal. On the piston fill the groove around the oring with grease.
> 
> That's all the grease the IRT needs.
> 
> from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


After two months of use I finally took out the IRT . There was hardly any grease-if any- in fact I don't think there was any grease anywhere.
When trying moving the piston upward toward the top it seemed like piston was stuck to the bolt it was sitting on top - I had to put a bit of force
to move it away.

After putting the IRT back in after bunch of slickoleum on the shaft , piston I could definitely feel bit more cushy just jumping off the curb. I wonder now whether not the IRT actually moved.
Now I cannot wait to put in that extra semi bath oil. I wonder if that might be a bit empty also the whole time I've had the fork.

Curious? How often should I check the IRT for lubrication -?

How will I know if I overfilled the semi bath oil?
And if I do, might I simply cycled the fork and have some of the semi bath oil come out? 
According to the manual there is supposed to be 21 mL of semi bath oil per leg. If I were to push the fork all the way down will it expunge all available semi bath oil from the revision B casting holes?
I figure if I do this way then I could put in a bunch of new bath oil without having to take apart the fork
>


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Thanks everyone, those reviews are very convicting!
Getting one 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Sooo... I screwed up real bad today. 
Didn't bother to get the torque wrench, and I managed to shear off the bolt going through the bottom of the casting on the damper side:








Do I need a whole new damper assy, or is it possible to change only the broken piece?

I appreciate any advice!
(Tried calling Manitou twice today, but didn't get through..)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> Sooo... I screwed up real bad today.
> Didn't bother to get the torque wrench, and I managed to shear off the bolt going through the bottom of the casting on the damper side:
> View attachment 1356185
> 
> ...


There is a repair kit. 141-36713-K034


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Dougal said:


> There is a repair kit. 141-36713-K034


Thanks! 
Do you have any idea where to purchase? 
Either my googling skills are lacking, or this kit isn't available online anywhere..


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

This is going to come down to how good the importer is in your country. Some of the German shops list some spares. In the UK, they don't even list seal kits.

Hayes European HQ might be your best best. Any emails to Hayes US will get automatically bounced there anyway, although the European HQ tend to just bounce it into your home country importer in my experience.


----------



## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

@Dougal i've found that my mezzer works much better with the motorex 5w40 than with supergliss 100k, i made this comparison in these days with temperatures above 30°C.
I always used supergliss on my forks: rockshox, Fox, manitou mattoc, and always found it to be better than stock oil, the ones with less viscosity except for Fox gold.
I think the main difference is oil volume, mezzer takes up to 21 ml while previous forks took 8-10 ml. With supergliss on the mezzer i can really feel more damping on compression, the fork is "slower", It never happened on other forks.
Could it be? Have you made some comparison?

Thanks


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

langen said:


> Thanks!
> Do you have any idea where to purchase?
> Either my googling skills are lacking, or this kit isn't available online anywhere..


Order the kit from Dougal maybe?


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

@Dougal - when I remove my shock pump from lower air chamber's schrader valve, it can spit out a little bit of oil. Is that typical? Or a symptom of something bad (e.g. over torqued)?

thx!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> Thanks!
> Do you have any idea where to purchase?
> Either my googling skills are lacking, or this kit isn't available online anywhere..


It won't be available to purchase normally, but should be available through Hayes Europe and USA.
I have a small number but they're not online.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

davideb87 said:


> @Dougal i've found that my mezzer works much better with the motorex 5w40 than with supergliss 100k, i made this comparison in these days with temperatures above 30°C.
> I always used supergliss on my forks: rockshox, Fox, manitou mattoc, and always found it to be better than stock oil, the ones with less viscosity except for Fox gold.
> I think the main difference is oil volume, mezzer takes up to 21 ml while previous forks took 8-10 ml. With supergliss on the mezzer i can really feel more damping on compression, the fork is "slower", It never happened on other forks.
> Could it be? Have you made some comparison?
> ...


Oil volume is everything. If you've only got a small amount you really notice the difference with Supergliss. Once amounts get bigger everything has more oil on it and the differences shrink.

Once you've got 90cc per side fork oil works fine and you don't need bath oil. The Motorex guys keep telling me that Moto just use the fork oil for lube. But zero moto forks only run 10cc per side!


----------



## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

Check out Wolftooths hg pack tool, works great.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Oil volume is everything. If you've only got a small amount you really notice the difference with Supergliss. Once amounts get bigger everything has more oil on it and the differences shrink.
> 
> Once you've got 90cc per side fork oil works fine and you don't need bath oil. The Motorex guys keep telling me that Moto just use the fork oil for lube. But zero moto forks only run 10cc per side!


 Is there an easy well to tell if the fork has too much oil? --I think my fork is the opposite.
I have 29er set at 180mm
I was thinking of taking out the rear casting screws and just pushing down on the fork to see if oil comes out.
ie If I push down 10mm on the fork and oil comes out -- then I would have " X" amount of oil in each leg. and if no oil comes out-- then keep adding the semi bath oil till oil starts to come out when pushing down at a certain amount of travel.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

locominute said:


> Is there an easy well to tell if the fork has too much oil? --I think my fork is the opposite.
> I have 29er set at 180mm
> I was thinking of taking out the rear casting screws and just pushing down on the fork to see if oil comes out.
> ie If I push down 10mm on the fork and oil comes out -- then I would have " X" amount of oil in each leg. and if no oil comes out-- then keep adding till it does


Bro this is too easy. If you doubt volume, just drop lowers, drain and fill with correct amount, reassemble and sleep peacefully.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Kamkam said:


> Bro this is too easy. If you doubt volume, just drop lowers, drain and fill with correct amount, reassemble and sleep peacefully.


I think will need to do that. it is just that

I am somewhat mechanically disinclined and trying to figure an easy hack around.

btw if any of you guys did drop the lowers for the first time, do you guys get a sense that the correct amount of semi bath oil was there.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

locominute said:


> Is there an easy well to tell if the fork has too much oil? --I think my fork is the opposite.
> I have 29er set at 180mm
> I was thinking of taking out the rear casting screws and just pushing down on the fork to see if oil comes out.
> ie If I push down 10mm on the fork and oil comes out -- then I would have " X" amount of oil in each leg. and if no oil comes out-- then keep adding the semi bath oil till oil starts to come out when pushing down at a certain amount of travel.


You would have to have hundreds of mL of bath oil to ever get oil out the bleed ports. That is not their function.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

locominute said:


> I think will need to do that. it is just that
> 
> I am somewhat mechanically disinclined and trying to figure an easy hack around.
> 
> btw if any of you guys did drop the lowers for the first time, do you guys get a sense that the correct amount of semi bath oil was there.


Some may disagree with me, but no. Unless grossly overfilled or damn near dry. The oil is rather thick and clings to surfaces. So if had the correct 21ml likely won't get anywhere near that if measured what you drained.

Can follow this vid for dropping lowers. It is for travel change but easily walks through dropping and installing lowers.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

locominute said:


> I think will need to do that. it is just that
> 
> I am somewhat mechanically disinclined and trying to figure an easy hack around.
> 
> btw if any of you guys did drop the lowers for the first time, do you guys get a sense that the correct amount of semi bath oil was there.


Agree with Kamkam. Was a bit low and the foam rings weren't soaked (simply kinda damp). But that wasn't a huge issue to me tbh. Took less than 20 mins to do entire process and that included taking the fork off the bike and putting it back on...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Hey all - I noticed today on a ride, that my fork felt a bit "low" ride height-wise. Checked after the ride, and it looks like I have about 11-12mm of "suck-down" under just bike weight. I.e. 158mm travel when I have it set to 170mm. Even without any weight, it seems to be sucked in a bit. For those familiar with the old rockshox lyrik, it's that type of effect.

I am going to reset my air pressure as perhaps my last time adjusting I had a bit of weight on the fork (though I do remember being in a stand). 

Anyone else see this, or what is the normal % "sag: amount folks are seeing without anything more than bike weight ? It could be that I was up in 11kft elevation and now be back at sea level, though not sure if that would affect anything.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

worn air piston seal?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> Hey all - I noticed today on a ride, that my fork felt a bit "low" ride height-wise. Checked after the ride, and it looks like I have about 11-12mm of "suck-down" under just bike weight. I.e. 158mm travel when I have it set to 170mm. Even without any weight, it seems to be sucked in a bit. For those familiar with the old rockshox lyrik, it's that type of effect.
> 
> I am going to reset my air pressure as perhaps my last time adjusting I had a bit of weight on the fork (though I do remember being in a stand).
> 
> Anyone else see this, or what is the normal % "sag: amount folks are seeing without anything more than bike weight ? It could be that I was up in 11kft elevation and now be back at sea level, though not sure if that would affect anything.


That is likely your temporary travel adjust. Happens if the fork isn't at full height when you remove the pump.

Connect the pump, pull to to full height, remove the pump and monitor it.


----------



## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Dougal said:


> That is likely your temporary travel adjust. Happens if the fork isn't at full height when you remove the pump.
> 
> Connect the pump, pull to to full height, remove the pump and monitor it.


I've been riding MTB for nearly 20 years and have never heard or paid attention to this. Checked on my fork and sure enough, i was about 5mm into the travel. Attached the pump, pulled it back, checked pressure, and disconnected. Sure has heck, it stayed at full! Is this the case on all forks Dougal?

You are an amazing wealth of knowledge and asset to the MTB community. Thank you!


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Dougal said:


> That is likely your temporary travel adjust. Happens if the fork isn't at full height when you remove the pump.
> 
> Connect the pump, pull to to full height, remove the pump and monitor it.


Thanks, Dougal. That did the trick! I must have had some weight and/or not fully extended last adjustment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this has something to do with how the negative and positive chambers on this fork fill at the same time?


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I've been doing of bunch of research and reading everything I can about the Mezzer to decide if I should give it a shot. My 2020 Fox 36 has been pretty solid, to be honest, but with resale values the way they are during COVID, I'm thinking it makes sense for me to sell it while it's in great shape and give something else a try.

I had a Dorado on my DH bike a few years back, and while it had its quirks and wasn't quite stiff enough for my preferences, the air spring and damper were great. This brought me to looking at the Mezzer.

I've honestly been amazed by the range of experiences that people are reporting on here. Some love, some hate, some have forks feel perfect, others aren't assembled properly...I understand that Manitou is a smaller company, but the hiccups and variability around this fork's release has been concerning. I also know lots of people on this forum are major defenders of Manitou, so some of the willingness to forgive for some of these issues seems rooted in defensiveness of the brand.

Two questions for you all here:
1. Have any of you ridden the new 2021 Fox forks relative to the Mezzer? I've heard Fox made some major strides with their chassis and air spring for 2021, so curious how the Mezzer measures up with these newer forks.

2. For those who bought forks more recently or with the updated lowers, have any of you had any issues with assembly quality, bushing play, etc.? I'm hoping that issues reported were from initial production runs, but curious if any of those bugs have persisted.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Can you adjust the air springs accurately on the Mezzer utilizing a Shockwiz?

Thx

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

No, shockwiz cannot work on the mezzer as well as most manitou forks. Once connected to main valve, the fork will just go through its travel as if no air is in the fork. The only chamber you could attach it to would be the IRT chamber and likely useless data. 

I would not be worried about tuning a Mezzer without the aid of a shockwiz. It seems to have a very wide tuning range that feels really good.


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

So I recieved my mezzer (29" 44os) today bought from Starbike. Very excited to fit it and take her for a spin. 

Was pleasantly surprised to receive a fork with the latest lowers. Date of manufacture was 13/03/2020

Regarding setup, any 100kg riders care to share their pressure and damping so I can get a starting point?

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

zhendo said:


> Two questions for you all here:
> 1. Have any of you ridden the new 2021 Fox forks relative to the Mezzer? I've heard Fox made some major strides with their chassis and air spring for 2021, so curious how the Mezzer measures up with these newer forks.


The 2021 stuff is barely out isn't it? The 38 and Zeb maybe a month? I've seen neither in the flesh in New Zealand, and those that are, are probably only just breaking in.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

thedrizzle said:


> So I recieved my mezzer (29" 44os) today bought from Starbike. Very excited to fit it and take her for a spin.
> 
> Was pleasantly surprised to receive a fork with the latest lowers. Date of manufacture was 13/03/2020
> 
> ...


What travel?


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

springs said:


> What travel?


Oh my bad. Currently 180 but plan to reduce to 170.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

thedrizzle said:


> Regarding setup, any 100kg riders care to share their pressure and damping so I can get a starting point?
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


Have a look at the setup database Google Doc, linked further up in the thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Mudguard said:


> The 2021 stuff is barely out isn't it? The 38 and Zeb maybe a month? I've seen neither in the flesh in New Zealand, and those that are, are probably only just breaking in.


Been seeing a good number of new 38s/36s around here (Seattle, WA), not too many Zeb forks yet but considering it's basically identical to the Lyrik aside from stiffness, I'm assuming any comments on damper/air spring will be along the lines of what folks think about the Lyrik.

Fair point though, just looking for more comparative data as I weigh all of the fork options out right now. At the Mezzer price point, it's not distinctly cheaper than other competitors, so becomes more of a comparison game.


----------



## Slim83 (Nov 2, 2006)

I have been having excessive initial breakaway force from my Mezzer and wanted to see if anyone had advice.

For a little history, I had one and it was amazing, the best feeling fork I have owned except I had to send it back for a creaky csu and verticle bushing wear lines on the stanchions.

I got the new one and it has very bad initial stiction. Once broken loose it feels good. I read what was posted about the quad seal having suction but my old one didn't do this or at least it wasn't bad enough to notice. It happens every time the fork isn't cycled for a minute or more (climbing fire roads etc.) I called Hayes USA and the guy there said it sounded like dry bushings caused by low bath oil. I disassembled the fork and there was adequate bath oil. I also removed the IRT and air piston (both had adequate grease) cleaned everything, soaked foam rings, added a layer of slick honey to dust wipers and put 21cc of semi bath oil in. This made it fell better but the stiction is still there but the force it takes to break loose is not as bad now.

Any advice?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That effect has diminished over time on my fork. How many hours on yours?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Slim83 (Nov 2, 2006)

CCS86 said:


> That effect has diminished over time on my fork. How many hours on yours?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


So far about 10 hrs.. 2 rides just under 4 hrs each and now some lift runs at a bike park. One of the 4 hr rides was before I took it apart and lubed/greased everything.

Today while I took a lunch break between lift runs I turned the bike upside down to get some of the bath oil on the bushings. After one of the runs towards the end of the day it actually starting feeling worse again.


----------



## gulprincipia (Jun 26, 2008)

Dougal said:


> 85-0022 is Motorex Semi-Bath 5W40 for the lower legs
> 85-0023 is Maxima 5wt for the damper.
> 
> I use Motorex 2.5wt for most dampers, because I buy it by the drum and Shockcraft Hot Oil Green or Pink for higher stress applications.
> ...


Hi Dougal. Just changed from 36 Grip2 to Mezzer, still playing with pressures but this feels really promising. Regarding oils, would you recommend using Fox PTFE Infused 5wt for the Mezzer damper?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

zhendo said:


> I've been doing of bunch of research and reading everything I can about the Mezzer to decide if I should give it a shot. My 2020 Fox 36 has been pretty solid, to be honest, but with resale values the way they are during COVID, I'm thinking it makes sense for me to sell it while it's in great shape and give something else a try.
> 
> I had a Dorado on my DH bike a few years back, and while it had its quirks and wasn't quite stiff enough for my preferences, the air spring and damper were great. This brought me to looking at the Mezzer.
> 
> ...


Totally understand the hesitation about any new fork from a smaller brand tbh. That said, while the Mezzer had some initial issues with bushings, those have been sorted and most riders buying now will have a fork that's been updated. That said, every manufacturer has its issues no matter the size of the company.

I've found a few things from the Mezzer community compared to other fork makers on the whole. Most of us who are riding this fork tend to be fork "nerds". We pay super close attention to what our fork does and how we want it to perform. Many riders on Fox and RS tend to just go with whatever came on their bike and ride it and say "cool" and really have no basis for comparison to others, so to them, their fork may be the best thing since sliced bread.

In my experience, I had a 2020 Lyrik Iltimate (similar damper and air spring design overall to the new Zeb). It replaced a DVO Diamond that was frankly great but was a tad short travel for me bike (Pole Evolink 158) and the Onyx seems to rarely be in stock...so I went RS as the reviews were good and it was in stock for immediate delivery.

In short, the fork damper was a disappointment...it felt wither over or under dampened from stock. The air spring was either harsh at top or harsh bottom. I put a runt into it (200 bucks), which helped air but not damper. Then went HC97 from Push for damper side (250 bucks), which really just made it feel less dampened before. Sure it was smooth, but just didn't feel composed. Then I went Vorsprung Smashpot (350 bucks) as I felt the coil might correct how the fork still felt "off". So at this point, I'd spent nearly 1800 bucks to replace a $500 Diamond and was still disappointed and had a fork as heavy as a tank.

Decided to go Mezzer. Got a really good deal on it. Air side easy to set up (as you'll see most of us are using less than recommended chart). Damper actually feels like it works. Each click produces a change that's felt.

So while I haven't ridden one of the Zeb forks, I can bet it's stiffer than the Lyrik with the same basic shortcomings.

I got mine and have had zero bushing play or slop in my fork. In fact, I'd be willing to say it's been one of the best part investments I've made on my bike tbh. Wish I'd gone it when I was looking at the Lyrik

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Th3Bill said:


> Totally understand the hesitation about any new fork from a smaller brand tbh. That said, while the Mezzer had some initial issues with bushings, those have been sorted and most riders buying now will have a fork that's been updated. That said, every manufacturer has its issues no matter the size of the company.
> 
> I've found a few things from the Mezzer community compared to other fork makers on the whole. Most of us who are riding this fork tend to be fork "nerds". We pay super close attention to what our fork does and how we want it to perform. Many riders on Fox and RS tend to just go with whatever came on their bike and ride it and say "cool" and really have no basis for comparison to others, so to them, their fork may be the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> ...


This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. I'm also looking at the Onyx, which you mention, but it's backordered for several weeks. Coincidentally, so is the Mezzer...so, I'm stuck in a waiting game regardless.

I had a great experience with an old Dorado which was incredibly user friendly, easy to work on, and reliable, so if the tech from the Dorado has been trickled down to an enduro fork (Mezzer) with a stiff chassis, it seems like a dream.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gulprincipia said:


> Hi Dougal. Just changed from 36 Grip2 to Mezzer, still playing with pressures but this feels really promising. Regarding oils, would you recommend using Fox PTFE Infused 5wt for the Mezzer damper?


Hell no. There is no reason to use that oil in anything. Even a Fox.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Someone in this thread mentioned the sale prices of used forks, so I looked it up, and...turns out I'm getting a Mezzer! 

It'll be interesting to compare, I currently have a 2020 F36 GRIP2 with a RUNT that I have zero complaints about. But the best kinds of upgrades are the frivolous ones, aren't they?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

zhendo said:


> This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. I'm also looking at the Onyx, which you mention, but it's backordered for several weeks. Coincidentally, so is the Mezzer...so, I'm stuck in a waiting game regardless.
> 
> I had a great experience with an old Dorado which was incredibly user friendly, easy to work on, and reliable, so if the tech from the Dorado has been trickled down to an enduro fork (Mezzer) with a stiff chassis, it seems like a dream.


I'd be willing to venture either would be a great fork, as my experience with DVO has been good and both are designed with user serviceability in mind and have excellent documentation available.
That said, the Mezzer is the best fork I've ridden. If I'm waiting on a fork, it'd be the Mezzer.
Glad to be of help 

Also, check out some of the retail outfits like Jenson and Worldwide. They often will price match, so might be able to get the price Manitou is offering in stock now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

ungod said:


> Someone in this thread mentioned the sale prices of used forks, so I looked it up, and...turns out I'm getting a Mezzer!
> 
> It'll be interesting to compare, I currently have a 2020 F36 GRIP2 with a RUNT that I have zero complaints about. But the best kinds of upgrades are the frivolous ones, aren't they?


Mind pointing me to sale  I'm really considering pulling the trigger

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

croakies said:


> Mind pointing me to sale  I'm really considering pulling the trigger
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I bought mine through my LBS because I get a pro deal with them, but the best prices I saw on the market were on Pinkbike in the classified section. I think Dirt Merchant still has them listed for $825 there.

Meanwhile my almost-new F36 seems to be worth about $700+ and my RUNT is worth ~$150+, so I might even make money off this deal :eekster:


----------



## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

ungod said:


> I bought mine through my LBS because I get a pro deal with them, but the best prices I saw on the market were on Pinkbike in the classified section. I think Dirt Merchant still has them listed for $825 there.


I've got mine from deathgravelproject guy on Pinkbike, he's very cool and the price was lower than anywhere else. He also got sweet deals on Dominion brakes

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

time to order, sighhh, thanks guys

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

megablue said:


> Creaking headtubes and CSU's isn't a Manitou issue, it's an issue wide issue right now. Although fox definitely seems to be the most plagued by it. My mezzer creaks very lightly which I will eventually get fixed by Manitou.
> 
> My lyrik creaked, my fox 36 elite grip 2 creaked, my first diamond creaked, so on and so on. I think this is an issue of bikes getting slacker headtube angles and still running single crown forks. I think it's just stressing the forks.


Silly question, but: how do you guys decide that you have a creak from the crown/steerer/stanchion assembly?

I've put significant mileage on maybe a half a dozen forks. Ridden lots of rentals. I'm about to receive a Mezzer to replace a Mattoc that I exploded.

...never had any creaking issues, so far as I know. And by that, I mean that I've never observed any habitual noises and definitely nothing that causes actual play. Don't get me wrong: my FS bikes definitely aren't 100% quiet. I've just accepted that they're gonna make random noises, and I do my best to check up on them and make sure nothing is loose, broken, binding, or otherwise.

I'm not being dismissive or anything...while I'm sure there are instances of people blaming a fork for headset issues or even something like a loose axle, I doubt it's the norm. Just wanting to know what I should look out for.

Can you generate these noises just by holding the front brake and loading up the front end? If so...how do differentiate it from the common creaking and knocking that MTB brakes tend to make (i.e. the pads shifting inside the caliper)?


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

Robik said:


> I've got mine from deathgravelproject guy on Pinkbike, he's very cool and the price was lower than anywhere else. He also got sweet deals on Dominion brakes
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


My fork has not yet arrived, but I also ordered from Vince at Deathprojects. He's been great to deal with and the pricing was very good. Obviously, I can't yet give him a 100% thumbs-up, but I think my fork will be going out Monday and I'll update when I get it.


----------



## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

phuchmileif said:


> My fork has not yet arrived, but I also ordered from Vince at Deathprojects. He's been great to deal with and the pricing was very good. Obviously, I can't give yet give him a 100% thumbs-up, but I think my fork will be going out Monday and I'll update when I get it.


He clearly told me his time frames and it worked perfectly for me. I also got Cotic Bfemax frame, Magura MT7 with HC3 levers. Super nice prices, will keep getting more stuff from him.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grady (Nov 17, 2008)

Has anyone experienced harsh top out with their Mezzer?
I received mine a month ago but it only has 2-3hrs of use on it so far. Even with the rebound set half way closed it tops out with a “thunk”.
I have lowered it from 180mm to 170mm and that’s it, even kept the oil in the lowers while doing so.

Even though they were bought a month ago their build date is Aug 2019, which is annoying. I’m not convinced the bottom out bumpers have been updated, which is a seperate issue, but I will have a proper look at the first service when I’ve dropped the oil and cleaned the legs out. (Or open them to sort the harsh top out).

Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Grady said:


> Has anyone experienced harsh top out with their Mezzer?
> I received mine a month ago but it only has 2-3hrs of use on it so far. Even with the rebound set half way closed it tops out with a "thunk".
> I have lowered it from 180mm to 170mm and that's it, even kept the oil in the lowers while doing so.
> 
> ...


Did you put the travel reduction spacer above or below the top-out bumper?


----------



## Grady (Nov 17, 2008)

Above. So the spacer is between the top-out bumper and the air piston. 
And the small silver washer is between the spacer and the bumper.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

Grady said:


> Above. So the spacer is between the top-out bumper and the air piston.
> And the small silver washer is between the spacer and the bumper.


Make sure you screw the air pump on all the way when filling the main chamber, don't stop just because you see the pump has been charged. There is a poppet that opens the negative chamber when the pump is attached and the negative chamber may not fill correctly if you don't screw the pump all the way on.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

which fat does work best for the pistons etc, sram butter, Stendec or what else do you recommend for the manitou stuff?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

By chance is the Mezzer compatible with my Torque Cap hubs?
Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

First ride impression
Feels soft, but still got more adjustment to do.

Unboxing it, it's a noticably more beefy (looking) fork than the Lyrik. Compared to the Lyrik w/Runt and Avy cartridge though, it's about 150g lighter (2044g vs 2201g). Fender adds about 40g on top of that. Moves freely, friction seems good and low. It's wierd to be able to push it through it's travel while you are filling the air up. Looks a little wierd too while in the bike but overall, it's a pretty sweet looking fork.

Rode a trail with some terrain that's not that steep, but lots of big rocks and roots to hang the front tire up on. Second section is less rocky and flows better with some drops and unpredictable corners mixed in. Third section is fast and open with water breaks and some 50' or so long rock gardens tossed in pretty often, most of it being crushed granite for the base (loose).

Set air based on the chart, 62/91psi for 200lbs.
*From closed*
Started at -
LSC - 3
HSC - 3
LSR - 6

Front felt soft in the tech so I increased LSC to the first click from fully closed. Still felt a bit soft and divey, but I stuffed the front wheel a couple times and while it hung up more than my normal fork, it didn't collapse completely and still got me through it. Traction however is up with this fork. It definitely has more traction in the loosest sections.

So far, it seems like I've traded support for comfort. Not really what I was after. Feels like it needs more air pressure, only a couple psi though and maybe a bit more in the IRT. Hopefully can get to the local bike park and turn laps while adjusting things. With how hot out it is though, not sure when that will happen.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> By chance is the Mezzer compatible with my Torque Cap hubs?
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


No, had to hunt down my non-torque cap bearing spacers before I could mount it up.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> So far, it seems like I've traded support for comfort. Not really what I was after. Feels like it needs more air pressure, only a couple psi though and maybe a bit more in the IRT. Hopefully can get to the local bike park and turn laps while adjusting things. With how hot out it is though, not sure when that will happen.


What travel?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

mike156 said:


> No, had to hunt down my non-torque cap bearing spacers before I could mount it up.


Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Gzmx (Aug 23, 2020)

*Can anyone help me you guys sound switched on*

Ktm 50 senior fork oilHi All,

I have recently bought my son his first bike. Ktm 50 senior 2005. I hearing every where to put in 240 mill per for of 7.5 weight full synthetic, I have penrite full synthetic 10w would this be ok to use?​


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Grady said:


> Above. So the spacer is between the top-out bumper and the air piston.
> And the small silver washer is between the spacer and the bumper.


That's good. I'd connect the pump again and stroke the air shaft to make sure negative is filled while the pump is connected. Pull it to full height before removing the pump.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

mike156 said:


> First ride impression
> Feels soft, but still got more adjustment to do.
> 
> Unboxing it, it's a noticably more beefy (looking) fork than the Lyrik. Compared to the Lyrik w/Runt and Avy cartridge though, it's about 150g lighter (2044g vs 2201g). Fender adds about 40g on top of that. Moves freely, friction seems good and low. It's wierd to be able to push it through it's travel while you are filling the air up. Looks a little wierd too while in the bike but overall, it's a pretty sweet looking fork.
> ...


I would add a click of HSC and then back off LSC a click it two to see what you think.

Spring is extremely sensitive to pressure changes. Sounds like you are close, small changes like 1psi is needed to fine tune. Digital pumps help


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, I have a trail I ride just for setup that has a bit of everything and can do 7-8 back to back laps on pretty easily. I've got a digital gauge and a shut off valve that I can hit a pressure very consistently with. I'll definitely put in the time to get it set up the best I can, for how I like it too feel.

Its definitely felt more plush than my other fork. The few sections of high speed washboard felt really good. If I can get the low speed support up while maintaining that high speed bump feel it has now, it will be a winner.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, I have a trail I ride just for setup that has a bit of everything and can do 7-8 back to back laps on pretty easily. I've got a digital gauge and a shut off valve that I can hit a pressure very consistently with. I'll definitely put in the time to get it set up the best I can, for how I like it too feel.
> 
> Its definitely felt more plush than my other fork. The few sections of high speed washboard felt really good. If I can get the low speed support up while maintaining that high speed bump feel it has now, it will be a winner.


Sounds like you are in a similar situation to what I was. I ended up adding a few psi to IRT to to gain support, without losing the excellent sensitivity to trail chatter.

For reference

27.5 @160mm
160 in gear
45.5/85.5
HSC +2
LSC-3
LSR -7

I have the most progressive spring of any Manitou test rider that I'm aware of, but use full travel regularly (because I ride like a idiot)


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm measuring 180mm of exposed stanchion on a fork that came out of a box marked as 170mm. Collapsing the fork, the fender hits the crown with 10mm of stanchion left. Feels like a firm stop here too and not just the fender.

I assume this is actually 170mm and that last 10mm is not actually part of the travel?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I assume this is actually 170mm and that last 10mm is not actually part of the travel?


Correct.

I put a small piece of white label tape at the back of one stanchion at the top edge of the o-ring after bonking it off the bottom with it aired down. So I have an easy travel use visual. No guessing.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grady (Nov 17, 2008)

Dougal said:


> That's good. I'd connect the pump again and stroke the air shaft to make sure negative is filled while the pump is connected. Pull it to full height before removing the pump.


Solved right here.
I had attached the shock pump, ensuring it's fully engaged, a number of times. However I never cycled the fork until I read Dougals advice above. It got rid of the harsh top-out right away. Thanks mate. And thanks too to Mullen119.

In unrelated news while I was out playing with the fork I removed the lowers to check the bottom out bumpers. They're the old type, and the one on the spring side had come loose and made its way to just below the lower bushing. Dammit.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mullen119 said:


> Sounds like you are in a similar situation to what I was. I ended up adding a few psi to IRT to to gain support, without losing the excellent sensitivity to trail chatter.
> 
> For reference
> 
> ...


I run a very similar progressivity to you:

160 lbs + gear
140mm travel
43 psi / 82 psi

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

Question regarding suspension hang up and square edge hits. 

Today I did a blind enduro race and on some technical spots noticed the front fork hung up on square edge hits. Don't really know how else to describe it. Basically dumps speed and almost stalls on square edge hits at lower speeds. Have no issues at higher speeds. Any suggestions? Thinking maybe higher main and lower IRT because its hitting the progression in those spots? Past experience with rear shock hanging up is usually too much LSC but I'm not running that much on the front. 

200 lbs. 
Main 53
IRT 82
HSC -3 closed
LSC -5 closed
LSR -7 closed

Barely use over 140mm out of 160mm unless I case bad.


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

Ok so in Australia the local distro got their act together and actually brought in some mezzers and offered them at a bargain price. I decided to grab a second for my trail bike and reduce the travel to 150mm. I have to say working on this thing is a dream. 

However the bench I placed the lowers on when adding the spacers to the airspring must not have been completely flat. So I noticed they dripped quiet a bit of oil onto the towel I had placed them on. Only having fox gold on hand I didn't want to mix oils so i checked there was still some in there which there seemed to be a bit. 

Now I am thinking maybe it's better to add about 5 - 10mm of fox gold in each leg. Can I just do this through the bleed ports on the crown? That's what they are there for, right?

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Kamkam said:


> Question regarding suspension hang up and square edge hits.


I could be wrong, but to me, this happens when the fork is too soft. Either on the spring or compression damping. The fork doesn't "push back" enough initially to get your weight moving up, over the object.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Kamkam said:


> Question regarding suspension hang up and square edge hits.


If you could re-create an obstacle like this at your house, you could do a bunch of bracketing and see what feels best. (+/- on LSC, HSC, main psi, IRT psi).


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

CCS86 said:


> If you could re-create an obstacle like this at your house, you could do a bunch of bracketing and see what feels best. (+/- on LSC, HSC, main psi, IRT psi).


There is a section of my local trail that is like a toned down version that I could use for bracketing and intend to do just that. Problem is maybe I'm lazy, but that is alot of variables and was hoping for advice for which ones to start with.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Yeah, it's just tough to give definitive answer for something fairly subjective.

The fact that you think the same obstacle is better at speed, makes me think damping. As long as your sag is in a decent spot, I'd start by opening the compression damping wide open and see if it feels better or worse.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

My current thinking is like Mike156. I'm thinking at speed, the wheel should get up out of the way as easy as possible, but for slower speed, need support to push through the object, instead of forward motion being absorbed by fork.


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Kamkam said:


> My current thinking is like Mike156. I'm thinking at speed, the wheel should get up out of the way as easy as possible, but for slower speed, need support to push through the object, instead of forward motion being absorbed by fork.


This seems like it could be something that is a fairly common setup issue associated with having too little pressure in the main chamber. Setting up the main chamber with too great of a difference from the IRT could create a really soft initial rate, but a stiffer rate later in the travel. At a given rebound setting, this means that rebound in that initial rate would be slow, but faster later in the stroke, potentially leading to the illusion of faster rebound. So, not only is the fork packing slightly in the initial travel, but it also is too soft and runs you into the more progressive part of the curve once IRT is engaged, feeling both harsh and partially sucked-down.

This is a guess based on experience with my old Dorado, but I'd say you'll want to add pressure to the main chamber, and potentially speed up rebound slightly.


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

zhendo said:


> This seems like it could be something that is a fairly common setup issue associated with having too little pressure in the main chamber. Setting up the main chamber with too great of a difference from the IRT could create a really soft initial rate, but a stiffer rate later in the travel. At a given rebound setting, this means that rebound in that initial rate would be slow, but faster later in the stroke, potentially leading to the illusion of faster rebound. So, not only is the fork packing slightly in the initial travel, but it also is too soft and runs you into the more progressive part of the curve once IRT is engaged, feeling both harsh and partially sucked-down.
> 
> This is a guess based on experience with my old Dorado, but I'd say you'll want to add pressure to the main chamber, and potentially speed up rebound slightly.


This is really close to what I am thinking about. Although I'm currently leaning towards more main pressure, and maybe a click or 2 or LSC to start with.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Link referenced in post 1896 iif anyone is interested - https://www.pinkbike.com/u/thedeathprojects/

No affiliation there on my part...


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

silentG said:


> Link referenced in post 1896 iif anyone is interested - https://www.pinkbike.com/u/thedeathprojects/
> 
> No affiliation there on my part...


That's a smoking deal, less than I got mine for.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Kamkam said:


> Question regarding suspension hang up and square edge hits.
> 
> Today I did a blind enduro race and on some technical spots noticed the front fork hung up on square edge hits. Don't really know how else to describe it. Basically dumps speed and almost stalls on square edge hits at lower speeds. Have no issues at higher speeds. Any suggestions? Thinking maybe higher main and lower IRT because its hitting the progression in those spots? Past experience with rear shock hanging up is usually too much LSC but I'm not running that much on the front.
> 
> ...


could be that you get in the range of HBO in slow movements 
? , if so , it could help add 10 + to irt and reduce a bit of compression


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Does the Mezzer have a hydraulic bottom out circuit? I know it's been mentioned in here before, but there is nothing about it on the product page.

Also, anybody have detail pictures of the damper internals or a manual that shows everything?

EDIT: Google has some answers
https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mezzer-pro-suspension-fork-ridden/


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Thank God I dont NEED this or I would be disappointed they only ship within u s of a


----------



## Kamkam (Feb 25, 2019)

torcha said:


> could be that you get in the range of HBO in slow movements
> ? , if so , it could help add 10 + to irt and reduce a bit of compression


I am definitely not getting that deep into the travel on these maneuvers to be hitting the HBO. I am pretty confident bumping main up and maybe alittle more LSC should help. Now that I think of it, didn't have same issue with old lyrik, but had to run alot of LSC to keep it from diving.


----------



## zdus13 (Jun 8, 2017)

Hey guys! So i'm planning on getting a Mezzer, the only problem is the info about the lowers. I'll definitely contact customer support from the place that i'll be ordering to find out its mfg. date. The thing i want to know is - how many revisions are there of the lowers and since when is the newest one being made? Is it marked on the box? Thanks!


----------



## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

See Velodonata's post - #1712


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

mullen119 said:


> I would add a click of HSC and then back off LSC a click it two to see what you think.


Solid advice, added one click of HSC and it felt pretty similar to where my last fork felt as far as trail chatter. Backed the LSC off to three clicks from closed and it was feeling pretty good on the trail chatter. Not sure it has quite as much support yet as where I want it, but I was riding pretty easy today on an XC trail so, hard to say. Didn't touch the air pressure and sped up the rebound one click the better match the back of the bike off jumps.

Again, traction on loose sketchy stuff is definitely up with this fork, it's awesome there.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

zdus13 said:


> Hey guys! So i'm planning on getting a Mezzer, the only problem is the info about the lowers. I'll definitely contact customer support from the place that i'll be ordering to find out its mfg. date. The thing i want to know is - how many revisions are there of the lowers and since when is the newest one being made? Is it marked on the box? Thanks!


There is one casting revision, (Revision B, RevB for short). This revision added TSR (trail side relief) valves the the casting for easy 25 hour service and to bleed pressure from the casting in the case of large temperature swings.

This is not the only casting with the bushing fix. The RevA castings had at least one batch (possibly 2, I don't remember off the top of my head) that had the bushing and bottom out bumper updates, but no RevB TSR valves. So just because you have a RevA casting does not mean you have a bad casting.

Honestly, TSR valves are overrated. I still drop my lowers for service and have never had any meaningful pressure bleed from the valves. If you have a fork with out them, just ride it and keep an eye out for the bushing issue. Most forks have been updated with revised RevA or RevB castings at this point, so the chances of getting a bad set is pretty low. It would have to be old stock from a year ago that wasn't sent back for the update prior to sale.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just a random observation, lifting the bike and dropping it about two feet the front doesn't bounce now. Uses about an inch of travel and just sticks to the ground while the back bounces.

I know I've seen DH bikes stuck, but even with a coil shock that was too soft, I've never really had my bike do that before. The front has always bounced less, but I don't recall it just sticking to the ground like that before. I just assumed it didn't really have enough weight to it to behave like that.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The Mezzer has dropouts that are semi-shrouded, in that there is a shallow "fence" around the axle spacer, when the wheel is installed.

The paint always looked a little thick there and wicked into the corners. Today I finally measured it, and it is a full 1mm too narrow.

I am 3D printing a tool now to help me sand that area flat and tool full width.

Curious to see what other people measure. It's a tough measurement to take accurately. I think the best best is to use simple inside spring calipers (https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-454-6-Calipers-Opening/dp/B00004T7SB/
). You can adjust them while pushing against one face, then the other. Starting small and just at the moment you stop getting a "tick" back and forth, you are there. Use the same technique to check the size with some digital calipers.

[UPDATE] After a lot of measurement and testing, I found that you don't want to open the dropout width to a full 110mm. You want a little bit of "stretch" of the lowers when installing a 110mm hub to achieve best bushing alignment. On my fork, this width is basically right where you get all the paint off the dropout flanges.










Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

The production date you're likely to end up with is still a problem depending where you are. Having tried a set from Germany and the UK within the last couple if months, both had manufacturing dates from June/July 2019. Dropped the lowers to check the bottom out bumpers and they were loose.

Finally managed to get a response from Hayes Europe who said they'd swap the lowers for a RevA casting (seems there's still aren't any RevB for spares in Europe yet). However, they said they would send the lowers to the UK importer who are Hotlines. Unfortunately, despite this, Hotlines still deny there are any problems with the forks.

That's the second set now gone back for a refund. Although CRC (the only retailer of the forks in the UK and somewhere I'd avoid if I could) are still sat on my money.

Too little summer left to be messing around like this. I've ordered a Lyrik.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Why don't you just ride the fork until season winds down and send it in for warranty work? I forget what issues you are having, hut essentially all reported issues don't have any impact on safety or performance.

Lyrik seems like a step backwards 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## onzadog (Jan 6, 2008)

The last pair that went back had loose bottom out bumpers. An issue for which Hayes USA swap lowers without question. In fact, someone further up on this thread told if how the lowers came direct to them rather than having to send the whole fork off.

In the UK, the distributor (who doesn't have a great customer service rep at the best of times) denies there an issue and doesn't have any warranty lowers even if they did acknowledge the need for them.

While the fork is unused, I can ask for the bumpers to be sorted and if no help is forthcoming, return them for a refund, which is what I did. The alternative is wait until they do have an issue then have to send them off for them to sit in the corner of a warehouse for lord knows how long while the bunch of shysters has my money and my fork and I'm left with little option but to wait for an unspecified length of time.

I'm making no comment about the performance of the Mezzer, but I do feel well placed to comment on the vastly different customer service people are experiencing either side of the pond.

I know of at least one chap who bought from the same place at the same time with knocking bushing. He's just continuing to ride the fork because there's no parts to sort the problem and he doesn't want to be off his bike.

I've no doubt the Lyrik is nowhere near as good and I really wanted the Mezzer, but I just can't bring myself to endorse a business with my hard earned when they want support the product they import.

I'm sure the Lyrik will be plenty good enough once I've sold the charger and fitted an Avalanche.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

onzadog said:


> The last pair that went back had loose bottom out bumpers. An issue for which Hayes USA swap lowers without question. In fact, someone further up on this thread told if how the lowers came direct to them rather than having to send the whole fork off.
> 
> In the UK, the distributor (who doesn't have a great customer service rep at the best of times) denies there an issue and doesn't have any warranty lowers even if they did acknowledge the need for them.
> 
> ...


I received the latest lowers and the bottom out bumpers were rattling around. Solution was a broom handle and a a couple of taps and it was all sorted.

A Lyrik with an Avy damper is not the equal of a Mezzer either FYI imo. Avy damper is a one trick pony and only works well in a very narrow band of operation ie flat out. The extra chassis stiffness of the Mezzer makes all the difference and its damper is well controlled in a much larger range of operation ie everything up to and including flat out. Mezzer wins. Just an FYI. Hopefully you get the solution that works for you.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

springs said:


> A Lyrik with an Avy damper is not the equal of a Mezzer either FYI imo. Avy damper is a one trick pony and only works well in a very narrow band...


I have to ask, have you owned an Avy damper?

I could see this being the case if you specified a pro level damper... But so far, the best I can hope for is equal level to the Avy with the Mezzer. The Avy damper is better the harder you ride it, but it's great even with my weak skill.

There are things the Mezzer is already doing better (it's more comfortable then the Avy) but I wouldn't say it's out performing it. Admittedly though, I still have more testing to do.


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

Got my fork on Wednesday (via the above-mentioned guy who has been listing on pinkbike; solid dude, no complaints). Finally got my bike all together today.

I haven't had a real ride, but initial indications are that this feels exactly like my Mattoc. Which is a high compliment...I only paid maybe $100 less for the Mattoc...but then had to add the IRT and low-friction seals. Also changed to a slightly lighter weight damper oil.

This fork has no stiction and seems quite supple. Perhaps at a slight expense of 'support'...I say that with big quotes because I think most people, with the somewhat-low air pressures and mostly-open damping that I like, would think my forks are a bag of mush; they really aren't. IMO, you just can't have it all.

If you want to feel the 'support' of a Rockshox product...you know, only using 25% of the travel unless you take a huge hit...feeling every bump...probably being under 15% sag at their recommended pressures...yeah, you're not gonna like it.

But...ummm...it seeming pretty good to me. Overly-stiff forks are for either A) world cup riders or B) newbies who think they're going to go OTB if they don't hang their ass over the rear tire. For all of us in the middle...I got no idea why anyone would not be buying Manitou at this point.

My Mattoc's damper turned into a ball of shrapnel...and I'm still this optimistic about my Mezzer. Knocking on wood over here.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

mike156 said:


> I have to ask, have you owned an Avy damper?
> 
> I could see this being the case if you specified a pro level damper... But so far, the best I can hope for is equal level to the Avy with the Mezzer. The Avy damper is better the harder you ride it, but it's great even with my weak skill.
> 
> There are things the Mezzer is already doing better (it's more comfortable then the Avy) but I wouldn't say it's out performing it. Admittedly though, I still have more testing to do.


Exactly what I was thinking. 
I'd be really impressed if the Mezzer was the equal of an Avy in a Yari/ Lyric.
The Avy cartridge does things that the stock forks I rode before just don't. It's so controlled when stressed, hard.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.
> I'd be really impressed if the Mezzer was the equal of an Avy in a Yari/ Lyric.
> The Avy cartridge does things that the stock forks I rode before just don't. It's so controlled when stressed, hard.


On my two most recent Fox 34 Factory forks, I have an Avy cartridge in one on my old Smuggler, and I had a Vorsprung Fractive kit in the other, on my Ripley V4. Both were definitely improved by the upgrades.

The Mezzer that is on the Ripley now is better in enough other ways, primarily the chassis stiffness and the IRT air spring system, that if the damper has any significant deficiencies compared to the Avy or the Vorsprung I'm not able to feel them. I make no claims to be the best judge or hard charger, but in my experience for a stock damper it is very good and it benefits from being paired with an excellent fork design.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Damper bleed question here. The damper on the right is a factory bleed, and my recently bleed is on the left. Should the bladder be that sucked in? I followed the directions to the T and it does not mention anything about having the bladder being sucked in at full extension. Should I rebleed so that it's sucked in a bit? Mine is actually sucked in ever so slightly, and not overfilled.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mike156 said:


> I have to ask, have you owned an Avy damper?
> 
> I could see this being the case if you specified a pro level damper... But so far, the best I can hope for is equal level to the Avy with the Mezzer. The Avy damper is better the harder you ride it, but it's great even with my weak skill.
> 
> There are things the Mezzer is already doing better (it's more comfortable then the Avy) but I wouldn't say it's out performing it. Admittedly though, I still have more testing to do.


Yes, I have owned an Avy cart that was in a 2020 Lyrik.


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

elsinore, are those dampers fully extended? If so, I would think the left is a no-go. Assuming that bladder is a snug-ish fit inside the stanchion, there's not going to be anywhere for the fluid to go when the piston comes up. But maybe I'm missing something; probably best to let someone like Dougal chime in on that.


I'm packing my bike up for a park trip. Just wanted to ask if anyone could give me a quick checklist of tools in case I need to fix something. My fork hasn't even had a proper shakedown run.

I've got allens, a cassette tool, and some slickoleum. Anything else I could need (for things I can actually fix...here's hoping my damper stays together)? I know I need to make sure I grab a socket for the foot nuts (hooray no insanely-thin-wall-8mm!).


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Yes, both at full extension. I don’t think it’s full to the point that it would hit the Stanchion at full compression though. Believe it or not it’s actually sucked in just a touch. 

What I don’t get is that if you follow the bleed instructions it will be even fuller. The only way I can think of to achieve the hourglass shape without sucking air in would be to compress the whole cartridge at least halfway before removing the syringe on the bladder, then extending it back once you remove it after the bleed port has been sealed with the screw. That’s not in the instructions though.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

elsinore said:


> Damper bleed question here. The damper on the right is a factory bleed, and my recently bleed is on the left. Should the bladder be that sucked in? I followed the directions to the T and it does not mention anything about having the bladder being sucked in at full extension. Should I rebleed so that it's sucked in a bit? Mine is actually sucked in ever so slightly, and not overfilled.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Both are fine. If overfilled it will simply burp out the vent valve. The damper isn't fully extended when installed in the fork.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## dcp_nz (Apr 16, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> The Mezzer that is on the Ripley now ......


I was considering going with a Mattoc Pro on a Ripley but then I looked at weights. Mezzer is same or lighter right? Why would anyone buy a Mattoc anymore if wanting a 140mm trail fork unless to save a few $$$?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> I was considering going with a Mattoc Pro on a Ripley but then I looked at weights. Mezzer is same or lighter right? Why would anyone buy a Mattoc anymore if wanting a 140mm trail fork unless to save a few $$$?


Highlights well the advances they've made in the last 3-5 years.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

I just installed a new Mezzer (v3 lowers) and occasionally I have noticed a weird notchy feeling when compressing.
I pulled the lowers and lubed the air spring and IRT and it seems much better, but still occasionally there a little. Any ideas?

I also noticed that when I cycle the damper by hand, with the lowers off, there is a metallic knock very deep in the travel. I assume this is normal? Hoping so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

MsvSpaz said:


> I just installed a new Mezzer (v3 lowers) and occasionally I have noticed a weird notchy feeling when compressing.
> I pulled the lowers and lubed the air spring and IRT and it seems much better, but still occasionally there a little. Any ideas?


I notice this every once in a while. Feels like a seal juddering or something. Not something I can ever feel when riding. It seems like it would most likely be there air spring piston seal, it the dust seals. They are well greased though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

MsvSpaz said:


> I also noticed that when I cycle the damper by hand, with the lowers off, there is a metallic knock very deep in the travel. I assume this is normal? Hoping so.


That is normal, it is from the Hydraulic Bottom Out feature. As the HBO piston enters a matching cylinder you can feel the ring on the end of the piston engage the cylinder. It's a subtle but distinct little catch in the travel, you can really only feel it when cycling the bare damper. Maybe catch isn't quite the right word, but it is slightly disconcerting the first time you feel it unexpectedly. Anyway, it's not a problem, you will never feel it any other time.


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> That is normal, it is from the Hydraulic Bottom Out feature. As the HBO piston enters a matching cylinder you can feel the ring on the end of the piston engage the cylinder. It's a subtle but distinct little catch in the travel, you can really only feel it when cycling the bare damper. Maybe catch isn't quite the right word, but it is slightly disconcerting the first time you feel it unexpectedly. Anyway, it's not a problem, you will never feel it any other time.


That makes absolute sense! 
Thanks for that explanation.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

MsvSpaz said:


> I just installed a new Mezzer (v3 lowers) and occasionally I have noticed a weird notchy feeling when compressing.
> I pulled the lowers and lubed the air spring and IRT and it seems much better, but still occasionally there a little. Any ideas?
> 
> I also noticed that when I cycle the damper by hand, with the lowers off, there is a metallic knock very deep in the travel. I assume this is normal? Hoping so.
> ...


Mine did the same, noticed it on the second ride on a brand new fork. I wasn't impressed.

After reading what others had mentioned about initial quad seal stiction I thought the quad seal may be sticking while compressing & needs to bed in?.

I also dropped the lowers to check for tight bushings or lack of bath oil, I added oil as it measured 15ml for both combined.

It was still the same for the next ride ,i had already checked if the
air seal was greased when i changed travel straight out of the box, my irt was dry though out of the box & needed greasing to slide easily.

4th ride in & I just changed travel from 160 to 170 & regreased the air shaft seal & it seems to have disappeared for the moment & hope it stays that way. The fork seems to be a bit more compliant at the same pressures, fingers crossed it's sorted.

I did notice when I was test sliding the lowers separately on each leg with the air spring out I get a odd feeling about halfway along the stantion on the airspring side when I slide it along.
it's a small a vibration, could be oil being compressed/removed/forced out while passing through the bushing as there's not enough clearance?

I think for peace of mind this fork will be off to shock craft soon for burnishing. I already have a mattoc that had to be sent away for warranty/repair for bushing & other issues back to the u.k, it's still there, 6 weeks later & still no idea whats going on.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

dcp_nz said:


> I was considering going with a Mattoc Pro on a Ripley but then I looked at weights. Mezzer is same or lighter right? Why would anyone buy a Mattoc anymore if wanting a 140mm trail fork unless to save a few $$$?


Coming from a mattoc the stiffness of the mezzer is very noticeable & I'm still getting used to it, I did really like the way the mattoc felt (flex wise) & performed ( when mine was working properly) . probably a bit like the Carbon vs aluminium rim debate, it depends on the ride you prefer.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cashews said:


> I think for peace of mind this fork will be off to shock craft soon for burnishing..


Are your bushings tight on the stanchions? I have seen a number of Mezzer forks in person and all were very free to move. No bushing bind at all.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

My lowers are extremely easy to slide on so I feel like it is more to do with the air spring. 
Tight quad ring could possibly be it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Are your bushings tight on the stanchions? I have seen a number of Mezzer forks in person and all were very free to move. No bushing bind at all.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


They do slide freely when both together, there is drag from the dust seals but no bushing slop, no apparent bind.
when I slide the lower legs separately on each stantion the compression side lower slides more easily on both stations than the airspring side lower does.
That feeling I notice is only on the air side stantion with the air side lower sliding separately that has me thinking it may benefit from burnishing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cashews said:


> They do slide freely when both together, there is drag from the dust seals but no bushing slop, no apparent bind.


This is all that really matters. Bushings will only loosen over time, never tighten. I can't think of any way that the bushing to stanchion slip fit could make the judder. That's something rubber, and burnishing won't improve that. I'd say put some more hours on the fork.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

*mattock vs mezzer airspring*

Is there any info on the differences in the airspring volumes, % progression differences etc.
I spent a lot of time fine tuning my mattoc pro 3 to perform a certain way & am looking to get the mezzer into the same ballpark for feel, i'm hoping I can apply a ratio compared to my final mattoc settings to get me close to where I was. 
I did some bracket testing & thought I had 2 settings that were getting close but after riding some more there not quite what I'm after.
I know I won't get a like for like feel just want a closer starting point.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cashews said:


> Is there any info on the differences in the airspring volumes, % progression differences etc.
> I spent a lot of time fine tuning my mattoc pro 3 to perform a certain way & am looking to get the mezzer into the same ballpark for feel, i'm hoping I can apply a ratio compared to my final mattoc settings to get me close to where I was.
> I did some bracket testing & thought I had 2 settings that were getting close but after riding some more there not quite what I'm after.
> I know I won't get a like for like feel just want a closer starting point.


You could try something like this, assuming you still have access to the installed Mattoc.

Translate main pressure across using sag (measured both seated on a dropped seat with chest almost touching the stem, and also with hands on either side of the stem putting all your weight into the bars). This will let you see the stiffness at top of stroke and midstroke.

Once that is set, see how far you can dive the fork with a max effort punch down on the fork, while riding slow. Using a true bottom out mark to measure from, find the % from bottom or mm from bottom. Match this on the new fork using IRT pressure. You can also add a brake jab during this test. I find that I can jusssst barely bottom out my Mezzer if I drive into the fork as hard as I can, while also stabbing the front brakes. This gives me the perfect amount of bottom out prevention on trail.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> You could try something like this, assuming you still have access to the installed Mattoc.
> 
> Translate main pressure across using sag (measured both seated on a dropped seat with chest almost touching the stem, and also with hands on either side of the stem putting all your weight into the bars). This will let you see the stiffness at top of stroke and midstroke.
> 
> ...


No, unfortunately the mattoc is still off in the u.k somewhere, so I can't compare in that regard.
On the mattoc I used the frequency method to set sag by feel using 2 psi increments.
I was in the middle of home schooling with the covid restrictions, so I had plenty of time each afternoon to experiment on the street, stupidly I didn't actually record a final sag measurement just pressure.

I will try out the second process you mention though at least to get to a general starting point & work from there.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Anybody else feel like the damper adjustment needs twice as many steps (finer resolution)?

The HSC adjuster seems to line up with what somebody earlier said about the two most open positions not actually adding any spring force to the shim stack. Position 3/4 have very little damping, but then position 2 adds in a noticable amount. 1 adds too much.

After 8 or so runs down the test trail, I ended up with something that felt pretty good.

[email protected]
200lb
61psi/120psi
HSC - 2
LSC - 1
LSR - 7

Tried quite a few different setups. I feel like maybe HSC at 1.5 with [email protected] could be interesting. But at HSC-1 with 110psi, it was too chattery with LSC at 1 and 2 but putting LSC @ 3 made it feel really odd and unpredictable in corners. HSC @2 and [email protected] though was too soft with 110psi in the IRT.

The trail is a pretty good representation of a typical trail, just mild grade with jumps, berms and some chunk and braking bumps.

This setup should work for most of what I ride, curious to see how it feels in steep chunk though. The ride before this one was fairly steep and chunky and it felt like it was pretty harsh on the bigger impacts. I wasn't using like 50mm of travel though where now I'm using about 20mm more without hitting anything really hard.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mike156 said:


> Anybody else feel like the damper adjustment needs twice as many steps (finer resolution)?
> 
> The HSC adjuster seems to line up with what somebody earlier said about the two most open positions not actually adding any spring force to the shim stack. Position 3/4 have very little damping, but then position 2 adds in a noticable amount. 1 adds too much.
> 
> ...


First impressions are wow those pressures are high!

I'm on a 29er @ 170 travel, almost 200lbs and currently have 50/82psi with -
HSC 3 
LSC open 
REB 5

If I'm on a bigger jump trail I'll increase the HSC to 2 and fine tune with adding LSC.

Maybe you are just uber quick but I can't imagine that pressure would be compliant at all and is sacrificing grip.....how you can differentiate between 1 and 3 setting on the LSC is sensitive stuff!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Anybody else feel like the damper adjustment needs twice as many steps (finer resolution)?
> 
> The HSC adjuster seems to line up with what somebody earlier said about the two most open positions not actually adding any spring force to the shim stack. Position 3/4 have very little damping, but then position 2 adds in a noticable amount. 1 adds too much.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of spring pressure. How much travel are you getting?


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

I can definitely feel quite a bit difference with HSC open vs first click. I would like only half a click of HSC. It's more Tiring with 1 click closed, but I feel I have more control. So depends on the length of the descents if I add HSC or not. LSC I have 3clicks from open. 
Pressure 35/53 on 180mm 70kg including my kit. Did a lot of back to back runs to find this is my sweet spot.


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Regarding bath oil, Motorex 5w40 Power Synt 4t was mentioned much earlier in the thread. 
I can get the Motorex 5w40 “Boxer” version more easily and cheaply. 
Is there any issue using this? Maybe @dougal has some idea?
It looks to be very similar with a similar CST to the Power Synt, but maybe I am missing something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> That's a lot of spring pressure. How much travel are you getting?


Had about 25-30mm left. Pretty mild trail though and this is about the amount of reserve I like to have available for when I screw up.

Not going to lie, I usually just stick to 200lbs as it's about what I weigh plus 5-10lbs. Realistically though, I wear full armor, 3L of water, and enough tools to fix about anything. Lol, Im probably will above my advertised weight when actually riding. Never bothered to actually check it though.

FWIW, I'm on an "antique" 2017 frame with 435 chainstays and 1185mm wheelbase. I'm probably more front biased then a lot of long/slack/low bikes.


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

So my Mezzer is feeling kind of terrible. Everything seemed fine at first, figured it would get better as I dialed it in. But it seems to be getting worse. Just so harsh and chattery. Killing my hands. The small bump just isn't there.

Even if I run like 45/90, I'm still feeling every little rock, rut, and bump. My Mattoc was smoother and less fatiguing. I think I had it at about 50/90 for downhill.

This honestly kinda feels like a bottom-tier Boxxer on a rental bike. Works, I guess, but I can't seem to make it not-miserable.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

phuchmileif said:


> So my Mezzer is feeling kind of terrible. Everything seemed fine at first, figured it would get better as I dialed it in. But it seems to be getting worse. Just so harsh and chattery. Killing my hands. The small bump just isn't there.
> 
> Even if I run like 45/90, I'm still feeling every little rock, rut, and bump. My Mattoc was smoother and less fatiguing. I think I had it at about 50/90 for downhill.
> 
> This honestly kinda feels like a bottom-tier Boxxer on a rental bike. Works, I guess, but I can't seem to make it not-miserable.


Hook your shock pump up to it, threading until it fully bottoms, while listening to the stanchion. See if you hear air equalize. While the pump is connected stroke the fork through it's whole travel a couple times. It sounds like your negative chamber could be low on pressure. Fully extend the fork before disconnecting the pump (but don't flex it against the top out bumper too hard).

Also open the bleed port if you have it (foot nuts if you don't) to see if there is pressure in there.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I wonder if it could be bushing issues? Had some of that with a mattoc, had to send it in for new lowers and that fixed the problem.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

phuchmileif said:


> So my Mezzer is feeling kind of terrible. Everything seemed fine at first, figured it would get better as I dialed it in. But it seems to be getting worse. Just so harsh and chattery. Killing my hands. The small bump just isn't there.
> 
> Even if I run like 45/90, I'm still feeling every little rock, rut, and bump. My Mattoc was smoother and less fatiguing. I think I had it at about 50/90 for downhill.
> 
> This honestly kinda feels like a bottom-tier Boxxer on a rental bike. Works, I guess, but I can't seem to make it not-miserable.


Does it feel better after a lower leg service?

If so that's tight bushings.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

Getting a little agitated over here. May have just lost another multi-day bike park trip to a Manitou fork.

It's now just unrideable. I am absolutely cooked after every little small section of trail. I can't hit jumps because any braking bumps will damn near rip the bars from my hands. In general, it just feels like my front wheel is not tracking the ground. Even on just service roads, my hands hurt and I have no confidence in my front wheel maintaining its grip.

It seems stiction-related but I am unsure. It honestly acts just like my Pike RC did...and I spent months trying to troubleshoot it, only to accept that the whole damper was just trash.

The fork seems to move easily when there is no weight on it. It seems less 'stuck' than the DVO fork on my other bike, even.

But once you put your weight on it, it seems to hit sag and then just sit there. I can bounce on my seat, compressing the hell out of my rear shock, and the fork doesn't move a bit. Damper settings make no difference.

I first pulled the IRT. Seemed to have plenty of grease. Applied a bit more Slickoleum to everything. No difference.

Pulled lowers. Seems to have plenty of oil. Dust seals seemed very dry. Smeared some Slickoleum (only thing I have on hand) on them and packed some into the foam rings. Legs seemed to slide more freely.

...feels exactly the same, though. Like my 170mm fork is just completely functionless in the 100-160mm region. Again...a lot like a Pike RC. Basically a big-hit dirt-jump fork.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

phuchmileif said:


> Getting a little agitated over here. May have just lost another multi-day bike park trip to a Manitou fork.
> 
> It's now just unrideable. I am absolutely cooked after every little small section of trail. I can't hit jumps because any braking bumps will damn near rip the bars from my hands. In general, it just feels like my front wheel is not tracking the ground. Even on just service roads, my hands hurt and I have no confidence in my front wheel maintaining its grip.
> 
> ...


Can you feel any bushing play? I had a set of lowers that were so loose it felt like they were locking up. This play was easily felt even by holding the front brake on and rocking back and forth with fingers on the fork sliders.

I know it doesn't ease the frustration but every problem I've had with the Mezzers has been dealt with relatively quickly by Manitou so hopefully yours will be too.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

phuchmileif said:


> Getting a little agitated over here. May have just lost another multi-day bike park trip to a Manitou fork.
> .


But did you follow my advice above?

Did you pull out the air spring?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

My suspicion is on a bushing issue. Loose, misaligned, or otherwise. It seems like the fork is functioning fine, yet it is abysmally harsh, even with the damper adjustments wide open and the the air pressures on the low side.

I've felt similar issues with rear shocks where an eyelet was seizing. The extra friction basically adds extra spring rate, as well as the random stickiness and general resistance to initial movement.

This feels...a lot like that. Or, like I said, a lot like my Pike RC, which turned out to just have an absurdly stiff compression circuit and no useful adjustability.

I don't think Manitou got the damping this wrong. I think the fork is binding when slapped on a <66* head tube and pointed downhill.

However, I can't see anything that actually indicates that this is what's going on. The fork doesn't seem to knock at full extension, nor does it resist compression when the pump is connected. The coating on the stanchions didn't seem to be wearing, nor were any of the bushings shiny.


----------



## phuchmileif (Aug 10, 2016)

CCS86 said:


> But did you follow my advice above?
> 
> Did you pull out the air spring?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I cycled the fork with the pump on. Many times.

I pulled the lowers. Can't tell if there was a vacuum or pressure...got a small hiss when I pushed the rods down after removing the nuts. This is definitely feeling like a much more significant problem than air in the lowers.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

phuchmileif said:


> I cycled the fork with the pump on. Many times.
> 
> I pulled the lowers. Can't tell if there was a vacuum or pressure...got a small hiss when I pushed the rods down after removing the nuts. This is definitely feeling like a much more significant problem than air in the lowers.


Air spring piston lacking grease sounds like the most likely culprit, if you haven't ruled that out yet.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Grady (Nov 17, 2008)

Try cycling the fork with a different shock pump attached.
My fork was feeling rough and had a harsh top out whenever it hit full extension. The advice I was given up above, correct advice, was to attach a shock pump and cycle the fork a few times. While I was doing that I found that when I used my brand new digital shock pump the problem would occur. However, whenever I used my old faithful analogue shock pump the fork would come away feeling perfectly fine.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

If he's able to compress the fork with shock connected already like he said, then it's not a shock pump issue. 

Would be surprised if it's not a bushing issue unfortunately.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

phuchmileif said:


> My suspicion is on a bushing issue. Loose, misaligned, or otherwise. It seems like the fork is functioning fine, yet it is abysmally harsh, even with the damper adjustments wide open and the the air pressures on the low side.
> 
> I've felt similar issues with rear shocks where an eyelet was seizing. The extra friction basically adds extra spring rate, as well as the random stickiness and general resistance to initial movement.
> 
> ...


If you have a tight bushing the fork will feel great immediately after a service (grease up the bushings to confirm) but will quickly get sticky as the tight bushings lose their lubrication film.

You should be able to confirm this easily by sliding the lowers onto the stanchions each side at a time and then together.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Has anyone noticed a band of rougher surface finish inside both stanchions near the top?

I measure it as being 87 - 113mm down from the top surface of the crown (where the IRT cap seats).

My concern is that the IRT piston o-ring is 92mm down at full extension. That means the o-ring is left resting on this rough surface, has to breakaway from it to get moving, and rides on it for the first 5mm of IRT travel.


----------



## BavarianBarbrian (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi guys, 

quick question: in the service manual they dont put any grease on the oil seal, just the 5w-40 bath oil. I had always put some grease in there because i thought oil wouldnt stick there properly. Its not like I never service my fork but i dont want to do a lower leg service any other week because my seals are drying up.

How do you guys go about that? Do you just put the oil or are you using some grease in there?

Also slickoleum is a bit hard to come by in europe, but i suppose slick honey does the job as well as its basically the same from what I know.

have a nice day and ride on
Anton


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

BavarianBarbrian said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> quick question: in the service manual they dont put any grease on the oil seal, just the 5w-40 bath oil. I had always put some grease in there because i thought oil wouldnt stick there properly. Its not like I never service my fork but i dont want to do a lower leg service any other week because my seals are drying up.
> 
> ...


Most have just been adding grease. I did.

Got my Mezzer in today and did a quick teardown. Overall was well assembled, air piston greased, foam rings wet, and oil in lowers, not sure if to full 21cc tho.

Still glad I did a teardown just so I can use my WPL oils/grease which I have found to be very slippy on mattoc and to also grease the dust seals. Seems to have been an improvement by just cycling be hand.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

BavarianBarbrian said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> quick question: in the service manual they dont put any grease on the oil seal, just the 5w-40 bath oil. I had always put some grease in there because i thought oil wouldnt stick there properly. Its not like I never service my fork but i dont want to do a lower leg service any other week because my seals are drying up.
> 
> ...


Slick Honey is Slickoleum. Same thing sold through different channels. SKF put out the "no grease" directive but Slickoelum has caused no problems so far.



croakies said:


> Most have just been adding grease. I did.
> 
> Got my Mezzer in today and did a quick teardown. Overall was well assembled, air piston greased, foam rings wet, and oil in lowers, not sure if to full 21cc tho.
> 
> ...


I have had reports of WPL swelling seals on other brands. Keep an eye on that. Especially regarding the wiper seals that SKF say not to grease but have proven okay with Slickoleum.

Stock bath oil fill is 15cc. 21cc is for those wanting to extend service intervals.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I have had reports of WPL swelling seals on other brands. Keep an eye on that. Especially regarding the wiper seals that SKF say not to grease but have proven okay with Slickoleum.
> 
> Stock bath oil fill is 15cc. 21cc is for those wanting to extend service intervals.


Good to know, thanks for heads up. Will report back later on if anything, i assume swelling seals will show up as increased friction on dust seals?

I'm happy this fork can take 21 for those that want to.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

croakies said:


> Good to know, thanks for heads up. Will report back later on if anything, i assume swelling seals will show up as increased friction on dust seals?
> 
> I'm happy this fork can take 21 for those that want to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Yeah softening and swelling, could be seals, bladder, bumpers, o-rings. All rubbers will react differently. A couple of decades ago now I had an o-ring gain about 20% in length and not go back in the hole it came out out. That was with PJ1 oil and it was only one o-ring out of a group that grew.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

So my irt appears to leaking into the main chamber overnight, it dropped about 20 psi & the main is higher than I left it last night. 
it's the 2nd day in a row so I think I can confirm its getting past a seal.
My irt was stuck & sticking on unboxing & had to grease it up to get it to slide on the shaft freely so I think an oring needs replacing. 

would too much grease on the irt seals cause air to leak past?

Does anyone know the inner & outer irt oring sizes, I'll just get some before pulling anything apart.
edit# I looked up the irt service part number from the manitou service guide & it's a seal kit for the whole fork.

Is the lower irt nut thread locked on, i.e needs heating to release?.

thanks in advance.


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

cashews said:


> So my irt appears to leaking into the main chamber overnight, it dropped about 20 psi & the main is higher than I left it last night.
> it's the 2nd day in a row so I think I can confirm its getting past a seal.
> My irt was stuck & sticking on unboxing & had to grease it up to get it to slide on the shaft freely so I think an oring needs replacing.
> 
> ...


Mine did this the first time I aired it up also.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

cashews said:


> So my irt appears to leaking into the main chamber overnight, it dropped about 20 psi & the main is higher than I left it last night.
> it's the 2nd day in a row so I think I can confirm its getting past a seal.
> My irt was stuck & sticking on unboxing & had to grease it up to get it to slide on the shaft freely so I think an oring needs replacing.
> 
> ...


Too much grease won't cause a leak. It would have to be damage to an o-ring, the shaft, or stanchion.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Slick Honey is Slickoleum. Same thing sold through different channels. SKF put out the "no grease" directive but Slickoelum has caused no problems so far.
> 
> I have had reports of WPL swelling seauils on other brands. Keep an eye on that. Especially regarding the wiper seals that SKF say not to grease but have proven okay with Slickoleum.
> 
> Stock bath oil fill is 15cc. 21cc is for those wanting to extend service intervals.


When the cartridge is in front of me, Compression knobs to the right, Rebound orientated to the left,in which direction do I turn the lower ring (thus the one closer to the rebound) to open the bladder? . In my direction or away from me?


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

This fork makes me crazy. After purchase i send this fork to official dealer in my country so the make a full oficial service of the fork (including demper), then i installed this fork, make 5 rides (about 10 hours totally), 80% of this is roads and 20% forest, and today i found a huge scratch on my leg, that i can feel with finger :madmax::madmax:

Is this is a warranty case? Official service said that small grain of sand get inside and scratches leg, and they can only extract this grain and nothing else.

But the local bike store that build my bike said that new fork cannot get such damage, because seals protect from sand and dirt.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

danforth said:


> This fork makes me crazy. After purchase i make a full oficial service of the fork (including demper), installed this fork, make 5 rides (about 10 hours totally), 80% of this is roads and 20% forest, and today i found a huge scratch on my leg, that i can feel with finger :madmax::madmax:
> 
> Is this is a warranty case? Official service said that small grain of sand get inside and scratches leg, and they can only extract this grain and nothing else.
> 
> But the local bike store that build my bike said that new fork cannot get such damage, because seals protect from sand and dirt.


That's a bummer for sure. The fact that you opened the fork up makes it pretty likely that you introduced that piece of grit. The dust wipers on these are really good, so anything external is not going to do that.

I try to be extremely clean during any service, making sure the exterior of the fork is completely clean before it gets opened and throughout the process.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

danforth said:


> This fork makes me crazy. After purchase i make a full oficial service of the fork (including demper), installed this fork, make 5 rides (about 10 hours totally), 80% of this is roads and 20% forest, and today i found a huge scratch on my leg, that i can feel with finger :madmax::madmax:
> 
> Is this is a warranty case? Official service said that small grain of sand get inside and scratches leg, and they can only extract this grain and nothing else.
> 
> But the local bike store that build my bike said that new fork cannot get such damage, because seals protect from sand and dirt.


There's no way to ever know how that got in there, but it seems very unlikely that it got in from normal riding, and you were the last one in the fork so it's probably not a warranty case either.

The good news is, other than being annoying, it's not going to hurt anything. Smooth it down if it has any kind of rough edge that is displaced above the surface and ride on.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> ...you were the last one in the fork so it's probably not a warranty case either.





CCS86 said:


> That's a bummer for sure. The fact that you opened the fork up makes it pretty likely that you introduced that piece of grit. The dust wipers on these are really good, so anything external is not going to do that.


All the maintenance operations with this fork was performed by official distributor, not by me. My mechanical in LBS also said that seal must protect from sand, and if this damage happened by the sand, this sand was get inside during fork maintenance or when fork washed with high pressure water pump (definitely not my case, because i know that high pressure water pumps is highly unrecommended to wash bike).

Anyway, i will wait for reply from Manitou.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

danforth said:


> All the maintenance operations with this fork was performed by official distributor, not by me. My mechanical in LBS also said that seal must protect from sand, and if this damage happened by the sand, this sand was get inside during fork maintenance or when fork washed with high pressure water pump (definitely not my case, because i know that high pressure water pumps is highly unrecommended to wash bike).
> 
> Anyway, i will wait for reply from Manitou.


It sounded like you said that you serviced the fork yourself, this is a bit different. It is correct that the seals work very well at keeping sand out, I ride trails with plenty of sand and I have never found any inside one of my forks over years and years of riding. Somebody got sloppy.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Just a quick ride report. Mezzer had me giggling from how good it felt everywhere, drops, chunky high speed, high frequency small bump.

Came off a mattoc (after trying a 2019 fox 36 factory and briefly with lyric before going back to trusty mattoc which felt better than either of those). Biggest thing I noticed was a reduction in friction/binding when slapping the front down or when braking hard which made a huge difference, more than I imagined. Everything else felt like a slight refinement from mattoc, damper felt a bit more supportive letting me run what feels like comparitively more LSC/HSC for same level of harshness, air spring also slightly more supportive in midstroke as well. Only thing I could wish for is a hair less (faster) mid/high rebound to match the rear a little better, but I'm hella picky and rebound also is the best I've felt.

Here's settings I settled on after first ride, don't think I'll need to change it much from here. Did not use full travel (is this air spring more progressive than mattoc with IRT was?) but don't feel like I want it to use more, just motivation to hit gym so I can take bigger impacts 

160lbs kitted up, 170mm travel
53main/80irt 
3 clicks out LSC, 2 clicks out HSC 
Rebound 6 out (all from closed)









Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Questuon, thinking about building up a carbon HT, 130ishmm of travel. I am having a hard time finding a Mattoc Pro, which would be my first choice. Any issues running the Mezzer Pro at 140mm for a trail HT?


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

170mm Mezzer 29 Pro 44mm offset on a Ibis Ripmo AF

Day 1: Angel Fire bike park
Day 2: South Boundary trail from Angel Fire to Taos
Day 3: Shuttling east Sandia mountains, outside Albuquerque, NM (including time spent sessioning drops and gaps on "North Course DH" trail)

Main: 60PSI
IRT: 88PSI

Rebound:5
HSC: 1-2
LSC: 4-5

This fork is fantastic


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

rodzilla said:


> Questuon, thinking about building up a carbon HT, 130ishmm of travel. I am having a hard time finding a Mattoc Pro, which would be my first choice. Any issues running the Mezzer Pro at 140mm for a trail HT?


None. Order whatever travel version you can find and it's an easy job to drop the lowers and put in the included spacers to get you to 140. I've been running one at 140 all year.


----------



## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Velodonata said:


> None. Order whatever travel version you can find and it's an easy job to drop the lowers and put in the included spacers to get you to 140. I've been running one at 140 all year.


Thank you for the feedback. Feel silly putting a 37mm stanchioned fork on a trailbike but it just seems so good!


----------



## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

rodzilla said:


> Thank you for the feedback. Feel silly putting a 37mm stanchioned fork on a trailbike but it just seems so good!


No, it doesn't.









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Robik said:


> No, it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is sweet! What are you running the travel at?


----------



## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

rodzilla said:


> That is sweet! What are you running the travel at?


160mm. It's Cotic Bfemax XL and is built around 140-160mm forks. I might try to drop the travel to 150mm just out of curiosity, but so far had no climbing or handling issues.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

croakies said:


> Just a quick ride report. Mezzer had me giggling from how good it felt everywhere, drops, chunky high speed, high frequency small bump.
> 
> Came off a mattoc (after trying a 2019 fox 36 factory and briefly with lyric before going back to trusty mattoc which felt better than either of those). Biggest thing I noticed was a reduction in friction/binding when slapping the front down or when braking hard which made a huge difference, more than I imagined. Everything else felt like a slight refinement from mattoc, damper felt a bit more supportive letting me run what feels like comparitively more LSC/HSC for same level of harshness, air spring also slightly more supportive in midstroke as well. Only thing I could wish for is a hair less rebound in the high/mid speed to match the rear a little better, but I'm hella picky and rebound also feels great overall.
> 
> ...


Sweet!

I believe it is more progressive than the Mattoc. You might try lower pressures. For 160lbs and 170mm travel, I think 38 / 69 would be worth trying. It might improve your rebound issue too.

I'm 160lbs with 140mm travel and run 43/82


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mezzer eating chunk this morning:


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Sweet!
> 
> I believe it is more progressive than the Mattoc. You might try lower pressures. For 160lbs and 170mm travel, I think 38 / 69 would be worth trying. It might improve your rebound issue too.
> 
> I'm 160lbs with 140mm travel and run 43/82


Can you please help me with the isssue I described relating to the direction I have to open the lower screw of the mezzers cartridge bladder to, when it is orientated with the compression knobs o the right and the rebound to the left?


----------



## stingray5 (Sep 8, 2020)

phuchmileif said:


> So my Mezzer is feeling kind of terrible. Everything seemed fine at first, figured it would get better as I dialed it in. But it seems to be getting worse. Just so harsh and chattery. Killing my hands. The small bump just isn't there.
> 
> Even if I run like 45/90, I'm still feeling every little rock, rut, and bump. My Mattoc was smoother and less fatiguing. I think I had it at about 50/90 for downhill.
> 
> This honestly kinda feels like a bottom-tier Boxxer on a rental bike. Works, I guess, but I can't seem to make it not-miserable.


Any news on this @phuchmileif?

I have EXACTLY the same feeling in mine... Lowers were replaced under waranty and it was fine for a while but it got a little worse... Friend who is a mechanic opened it up, regreased it and put new oil inside (it was very dry from warranty replacement) and the fork was great for some time. Then, I don't know what happened, it just got worse, like @phuchmileif said... It wants to tore my arms off handlebars on chattery sections, bigger hits seem ok...

We did complet damper rebuild if there was anything wrong with it, but everything sems fine, oh and yes... CSU is creaking like crazy :cryin:

I should probably send it back for warranty service I guess, I just have to wait for a replacement fork to be on stock... Wanna try the new ZEB, just because...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> Can you please help me with the isssue I described relating to the direction I have to open the lower screw of the mezzers cartridge bladder to, when it is orientated with the compression knobs o the right and the rebound to the left?


Are you talking about removing the bladder? I haven't disassembled my damper yet, so I can't say off the top of my head. Have you downloaded the PDF service manual, for reference? Can I ask why you are pulling the damper apart?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Are you talking about removing the bladder? I haven't disassembled my damper yet, so I can't say off the top of my head. Have you downloaded the PDF service manual, for reference? Can I ask why you are pulling the damper apart?


Had a mezzer on which I did a compression reshim and put in some spacers beneath the hsc spring, because it di do nothing on the first and second hsc click, as there was too much space. With this reshim it felt even better, more controlled, so that I could use a bit less main pressure.

Now I have send it in for warranty as the crown creaked and got a completely new fork in exchange  as tge tuning worked I **** to rekeat those steos bit forgot in which direction to turn the lower screw from the bladder


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> Had a mezzer on which I did a compression reshim and put in some spacers beneath the hsc spring, because it di do nothing on the first and second hsc click, as there was too much space. With this reshim it felt even better, more controlled, so that I could use a bit less main pressure.
> 
> Now I have send it in for warranty as the crown creaked and got a completely new fork in exchange  as tge tuning worked I **** to rekeat those steos bit forgot in which direction to turn the lower screw from the bladder


Ah, I gotcha.

I can confirm your finding on the HSC adjuster. Stroking the damper alone, HSC open and HSC +1 are indistinguishable. But, +2 gives a noticeable change. My guess is that the HSC adjust is a very fine pitch to allow sensitive adjustments, but in order to ensure no preload in the open position (with tolerance stacking), you have a potentially "dead" position in the adjuster.

IMO, unless you ever run the fork with the HSC maxed out, there is no benefit to shimming the adjuster. You just know that your first working adjustment is +2 from open. Just an opinion.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Has anyone noticed a band of rougher surface finish inside both stanchions near the top?
> 
> I measure it as being 87 - 113mm down from the top surface of the crown (where the IRT cap seats).
> 
> My concern is that the IRT piston o-ring is 92mm down at full extension. That means the o-ring is left resting on this rough surface, has to breakaway from it to get moving, and rides on it for the first 5mm of IRT travel.


No one?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I think one turn produces quite a bit of length change. I've circled the slot that it's used by the HSC adjuster to move the preload mechanism. Looks like 3-4mm of preload range.

Based on how it feels, a softer and longer spring would probably be preferable. Longer just to adjust the initial preload (or lack there of) and then softer to bring peak load down. This would reduce the range of adjustment and make the difference between each click less.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> No one?


Looks like butting? But if so, it should be below the IRT. I'll check mine next time I have it open.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Looks like butting? But if so, it should be below the IRT. I'll check mine next time I have it open.


I don't think the stanchions are butted. Pretty sure they have a consistent OD and ID throughout.

Let us know what you find. I think it is most apparent, visually, when it is clean and dry (pretty rare). Grease will tend to downplay the lack of shine there. But, a sharp plastic pick should help check through feel.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> I don't think the stanchions are butted. Pretty sure they have a consistent OD and ID throughout.


Some of the press material from the release mentions butted stanchions, and a close look at the technical drawing of the fork shows what looks like butting in both stanchions right below the IRT piston height. Are you sure you measured accurately?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Ah, I gotcha.
> 
> I can confirm your finding on the HSC adjuster. Stroking the damper alone, HSC open and HSC +1 are indistinguishable. But, +2 gives a noticeable change. My guess is that the HSC adjust is a very fine pitch to allow sensitive adjustments, but in order to ensure no preload in the open position (with tolerance stacking), you have a potentially "dead" position in the adjuster.
> 
> IMO, unless you ever run the fork with the HSC maxed out, there is no benefit to shimming the adjuster. You just know that your first working adjustment is +2 from open. Just an opinion.


You did not get me rigjt. Onr measure is for getting hsc with every click as it should be, otherwise manitou could have made two clicks ;-) and in my fork, tolerances, 3 0, spacers where needed. Second meusure was another better working stack. Made initial travel mire controlled, thus the fork work better a nicer for your hands


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> I don't think the stanchions are butted. Pretty sure they have a consistent OD and ID throughout.
> 
> Let us know what you find. I think it is most apparent, visually, when it is clean and dry (pretty rare). Grease will tend to downplay the lack of shine there. But, a sharp plastic pick should help check through feel.


Stanchions are butted. Manitou do it on all their pro and expert level forks. Comp are straight wall.

The difference in Mezzer diameter is small. But it's there.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I think one turn produces quite a bit of length change. I've circled the slot that it's used by the HSC adjuster to move the preload mechanism. Looks like 3-4mm of preload range.
> 
> Based on how it feels, a softer and longer spring would probably be preferable. Longer just to adjust the initial preload (or lack there of) and then softer to bring peak load down. This would reduce the range of adjustment and make the difference between each click less.


you can make the HSC and LSC clickless removing those minisprings and balls  but than you loose also the beginning and end lock and have to be carefull, I accidentally lost one ball for LSC and it works fine  And just small notice , the washer on this picture in bottom line , 4th from left should be actually 1 position to the right sitting on that plate.


----------



## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Is there a replacement LSC knob for the Mezzer Pro with a different color?

Really not digging the red unfortunately...


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

olivierhacking said:


> Is there a replacement LSC knob for the Mezzer Pro with a different color?
> 
> Really not digging the red unfortunately...


Sand it with a grit paper i guess?
Get push looks

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Some of the press material from the release mentions butted stanchions, and a close look at the technical drawing of the fork shows what looks like butting in both stanchions right below the IRT piston height. Are you sure you measured accurately?





Dougal said:


> Stanchions are butted. Manitou do it on all their pro and expert level forks. Comp are straight wall.





Dougal said:


> The difference in Mezzer diameter is small. But it's there.
> 
> from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter




Interesting! I didn't check for a diameter change, so if it is subtle and smooth I could have easily missed it.

I am confident in my depth measurements to the start and end of the rough surface though. I checked that multiple times, using the plastic pick to sweep, marking it against the top surface and checking against digital calipers.

Do you have a high res document, of that fork schematic? I'd love to get a copy.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Guys, trying to figure out from where that scratch comes. Before my technician open this fork do you have any advices/suggestions what it could be? Technician said that probably this is a bushing scratches leg. When your bike stay for a night, and then you push your fork for the first time after a while, do you have some stucking before it make travel?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> Do you have a high res document, of that fork schematic? I'd love to get a copy.


Nope, unfortunately that's as good as it gets. I don't know where I found that originally but yeah I wish it were higher quality, too.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

danforth said:


> Guys, trying to figure out from where that scratch comes. Before my technician open this fork do you have any advices/suggestions what it could be? Technician said that probably this is a bushing scratches leg. When your bike stay for a night, and then you push your fork for the first time after a while, do you have some stucking before it make travel?


The only way I can see the bushing being involved in that scratch is if a particle of sand got embedded into the bushing material when it was taken apart last. Where the bushing contacts the stanchion the material is so much softer, there is no way for it to scratch the stanchion coating.

Yes, I think a little stickiness at top out after sitting is common with these forks. In my experience, making sure the top out bumper in the air spring assembly has plenty of grease on all sides basically eliminates this.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm eagerly waiting to hit the "buy" button, but man is the Manitou supply chain killing me...I know all companies are having issues getting things in stock from Asia, but Manitou's delivery estimate for these things was late August, then mid-September, then end-September, then early October, and now late October. Seems like most of the new Fox forks and the new Zeb are sold out many places too in the 29" flavor.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Stanchions are butted. Manitou do it on all their pro and expert level forks. Comp are straight wall.
> 
> The difference in Mezzer diameter is small. But it's there.
> 
> from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Hi Dougal,

You could really help me, if you would tell me the answer my question I asked referring how to open the lower screw if the mezzers bladder, thus the direction? As I asked a few days ago ;-)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Hi Dougal,
> 
> You could really help me, if you would tell me the answer my question I asked referring how to open the lower screw if the mezzers bladder, thus the direction? As I asked a few days ago ;-)


The bottom of the bladder is an inside and outside wedge. The top collar is I think a quarter turn in either direction to release the retaining ring from the bladder.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Has anyone seen a graph around that plots the spring curves as the IRT increases.
I know there's one for the mattoc IRT psi increase, i'm just chasing one for the mezzer.
I wouldn't mind overlaying them so I can compare them.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The bottom of the bladder is an inside and outside wedge. The top collar is I think a quarter turn in either direction to release the retaining ring from the bladder.


When the compression adjuster is directed uowards do I have to turn the LOWER wedge right or keft to open it?
Do not want to destroy the thread


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

So I bought one from German shop, mailed them before to make sure i get one of the recent builds. They checked with their dealer, he said all the forks are the newest.
After 3 weeks i got it. Build June 2019.

Dropped travel, bumpers seemed fine. 1st ride, feels awesome to the extent i have to learn how to ride stuff this plush.
After this ride it's rocking like an loose headset so this is it right?that's how those bushings feel?

Thanks 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> When the compression adjuster is directed uowards do I have to turn the LOWER wedge right or keft to open it?
> Do not want to destroy the thread


man all the threads in the compression damper are in normal direction if remember well ..


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> When the compression adjuster is directed uowards do I have to turn the LOWER wedge right or keft to open it?
> Do not want to destroy the thread


The bottom of the compression assembly (including bladder) is all held together by the HBO cup inside.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> So I bought one from German shop, mailed them before to make sure i get one of the recent builds. They checked with their dealer, he said all the forks are the newest.
> After 3 weeks i got it. Build June 2019.
> 
> Dropped travel, bumpers seemed fine. 1st ride, feels awesome to the extent i have to learn how to ride stuff this plush.
> ...


Check your axle and headset. Fork bushings have to be completely missing to feel that loose.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The bottom of the compression assembly (including bladder) is all held together by the HBO cup inside.


I meant the lower screw nut on the bladder  which direction is it to be turned to be opened?


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

When I let air out of the main chamber, slowly, a bit of oil spits out. Is that normal?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> I meant the lower screw nut on the bladder  which direction is it to be turned to be opened?


I don't know what you mean. Post up a picture.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Check your axle and headset. Fork bushings have to be completely missing to feel that loose.


Thanks for advice. Did that
Unfortunately its going to be the fork. Can sort of fell the vibrations when I rock it with brake on and other hand on fork, nothing else is moving.

You guys agreed its safe to ride if I got it right?

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Anybody feel like the Mezzer doesn't handle brake bumps all that well? I feel like the fork is about as soft as I can put up with but it's still pretty harsh on brake bumps. The trails here are hammered so brake bumps makes up a lot of the terrain.

Thinking I'll do a lowers and air-spring service and check the bushings, but not sure what else to try. Any setup suggestions to improve the situation? I feel like I'm at the best compromise right now but maybe I'm overlooking something?

LSC- 1
HSC-2
LSR-7
61psi/120psi

Tried LSC-3 and it felt too soft and divey. HSC -1 felt more harsh, HSC -3 was WAY too soft. This is about the softest on the air side I could stand as well. Maybe more main pressure and less IRT pressure though?

I'd really like this to match the Lyrik/Avy/Runt, but so far, it's not there. The Avy had more support but then blows off through the braking bumps and feels great.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I feel like my Mezzer handles brake bumps extra particularly well. Legit daydream about it sometimes haha. I know that doesn't help.

Without looking at your setup too closely, classic things to try for brake bumps (assuming you may be packing) A bit more main psi and slightly faster rebound. 

Beyond that try and tackle friction. First thing I did when I got my Mezzer (any fork for that matter) was drop lowers and rebuild air spring/lowers/dustseals with fresh lube/grease of your choice. WPL grease and 20wt oil has worked amazing for me on this and other forks.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

croakies said:


> WPL grease and 20wt oil has worked amazing for me on this and other forks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


On this note is there any other grease besides slickoleum that be suitable?

Think Dougal is the expert here on both Manitou and Motorex, of which there is plenty here in Switzerland.

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

croakies said:


> Without looking at your setup too closely, classic things to try for brake bumps (assuming you may be packing) A bit more main psi and slightly faster rebound.
> 
> Beyond that try and tackle friction. First thing I did when I got my Mezzer (any fork for that matter) was drop lowers and rebuild air spring/lowers/dustseals with fresh lube/grease of your choice. WPL grease and 20wt oil has worked amazing for me on this and other forks.


Packing was kind of my thoughts too.

I was about to pull it apart before putting it on, but then I thought maybe I should just ride it as is for the first couple rides. If there was an assembly issue and it broke there wouldn't be an issue over warranty repairs that way.

I've got the Motorex 4T power synt 5w40 that Dougal recommended for the lowers to go with slickolium on the bushings. Was planning on using RS dynamic seal grease on the air spring and IRT, unless there is a reason not to?


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

mike156 said:


> Anybody feel like the Mezzer doesn't handle brake bumps all that well? I feel like the fork is about as soft as I can put up with but it's still pretty harsh on brake bumps. The trails here are hammered so brake bumps makes up a lot of the terrain.
> 
> Thinking I'll do a lowers and air-spring service and check the bushings, but not sure what else to try. Any setup suggestions to improve the situation? I feel like I'm at the best compromise right now but maybe I'm overlooking something?
> 
> ...


Without knowing your bike, fork travel, rider weight, etc - two things that stand out are your hi/lo pressure ratio at ~2:1 and the LSC almost fully closed. Based on the data in the mezzer tracker: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370

Average for Hi/lo is about 1.6:1 and LSC is 6 from closed. Obviously, the averages don't necessarily mean that they will work for you, but it's interesting to note.

Personally (180lbs, 170mm fork, 150mm rear travel), I found that upping the main chamber a tad and lower the IRT made the fork a bit more compliant for my purposes which in generally are steep, loose and rocky (though works well on jump/flow trails as well). I run HSC open and LSC at 6 clicks from closed. LSR is 8 from closed. Lastly, if you are able to try going up in travel (i.e. 170 from 160mm), and not too concerned about any geo changes, I found that help with small chatter and braking bumps as well.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, I realize I'm running a lot of compression damping. To me, it feels like crap though without a lot of damping. Too squishy.

The Avy damper felt very firm when I first put it on and I thought I made a mistake buying it. But then I also noticed it wasn't making my hands hurt and chatter/brake bumps weren't an issue at all with it. The Avy damper feels very firm, but without harshness. That's what I've grown accustomed to so I'm trying to replicate it with the Mezzer, but I don't think it can?


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, I realize I'm running a lot of compression damping. To me, it feels like crap though without a lot of damping. Too squishy.
> 
> The Avy damper felt very firm when I first put it on and I thought I made a mistake buying it. But then I also noticed it wasn't making my hands hurt and chatter/brake bumps weren't an issue at all with it. The Avy damper feels very firm, but without harshness. That's what I've grown accustomed to so I'm trying to replicate it with the Mezzer, but I don't think it can?


Not sure, but you might've missed part of his analysis and suggestion. I agree with him that it's something you should try.

Back off the LSC a whole lot. (I would try it fully open, or no more than 1-2 clicks from open.)

Increase the main chamber pressure. Decrease the IRT pressure. Say 70 psi main, 100 IRT. Ride it and don't touch the LSC knob wherever you set it. Then try even more main and less IRT, say 75 and 92. Again don't adjust LSC while you are testing the air spring rate.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> LSC- 1
> HSC-2
> LSR-7
> 61psi/120psi


What is your weight and travel?

Your pressures sound VERY high. Even if you are 200 lbs, at 140mm travel, your main pressure would be pretty good, but your IRT would be 10-20 psi too high.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I wonder what the total weight of a Mezzer would be if you ripped out the IRT stuff, simplified the air spring shaft/perch, and installed a coil with some light weight spacers. The Marzocchi Z1 Coil conversion is like 300g, figure that the IRT stuff is like 50-80g, so maybe it would end up real similar in weight to the ERA/Zeb/38?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, I realize I'm running a lot of compression damping. To me, it feels like crap though without a lot of damping. Too squishy.
> 
> The Avy damper felt very firm when I first put it on and I thought I made a mistake buying it. But then I also noticed it wasn't making my hands hurt and chatter/brake bumps weren't an issue at all with it. The Avy damper feels very firm, but without harshness. That's what I've grown accustomed to so I'm trying to replicate it with the Mezzer, but I don't think it can?


Crank up the LSC and on a click or 2 for HSC. You may have too much air in the second chamber causing HSR issues since yours was set to you weight. Honestly you can get close to Avy but you may need to reshim the damper to get it just right, I don't one a Mezzer but a buddy of mine does and we weigh and ride the same. His felt very close to my Avy fork. The only thing I felt was some stiction. Since I'm on coil. How much do you weigh?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

romulin said:


> Thanks for advice. Did that
> Unfortunately its going to be the fork. Can sort of fell the vibrations when I rock it with brake on and other hand on fork, nothing else is moving.
> 
> You guys agreed its safe to ride if I got it right?
> ...


Bushing play on the problem forks is around 0.15mm. Total rocking you should feel from top to bottom is well under a millimetre. But you'll be able to feel it by holding your fingers between the brace and stanchion while rocking.

A healthy bushing has 0.1mm clearance and can still be felt with your fingers between the brace and stanchion but won't be noticeable otherwise.

Loose headsets or axles are about 5-10x more play.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

ColinL said:


> Back off the LSC a whole lot. (I would try it fully open, or no more than 1-2 clicks from open.)
> 
> Increase the main chamber pressure. Decrease the IRT pressure. Say 70 psi main, 100 IRT.


70/110 is where I started originally. I can revisit it with the intention of running less damping. I was trying to rely more on the damper than the spring but maybe that's not going to work.



CCS86 said:


> What is your weight and travel?
> 
> Your pressures sound VERY high. Even if you are 200 lbs, at 140mm travel, your main pressure would be pretty good, but your IRT would be 10-20 psi too high.


[email protected], let's call it a portly 215 for the days I have a bunch of gear on. Any less air and it feels like a divey pile of crap?



Cerberus75 said:


> Crank up the LSC and on a click or 2 for HSC. You may have too much air in the second chamber causing HSR issues since yours was set to you weight. Honestly you can get close to Avy but you may need to reshim the damper to get it just right, I don't one a Mezzer but a buddy of mine does and we weigh and ride the same. His felt very close to my Avy fork. The only thing I felt was some stiction. Since I'm on coil. How much do you weigh?


Those settings are from closed. LSC is pretty much maxed out. Another click of HSC makes it VERY harsh. I have tried lower IRT at the same main pressure and it felt too soft.

Something the Avy has is the FVaT/HSB. I don't know if you can realistically mimic that with a standard shim stack or HSC preload spring?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> [email protected], let's call it a portly 215 for the days I have a bunch of gear on. Any less air and it feels like a divey pile of crap?


I would set it to 55 / 90 and at least give that a try.

I have never heard anyone else call the Mezzer a "divey pile of crap".

Here is mine running 44 / 82 through some chunk. These are repeated 4+ m/s hits, and it recovers very quickly, never packing, losing composure, or lacking support: 




My damper (and some others on here) seem to have no preload with HSC wide open or +1 (-4 or -3). That means it won't have a ton of LSC if HSC is set there. If jumping from HSC-2 to HSC-1 adds too much damping, back off the LSC. Each time you go up in HSC, you will need to reduce LSC for a similar feel.

Pure speculation, but maybe you have gotten used to forks that needed a ton of air pressure to get enough support. Maybe what initially feels "divey" on the Mezzer, is just a fork moving freely and absorbing the terrain. It's possible that giving it a little time will recalibrate your feeling. Maybe reducing the air pressure to my recommendations will let you add some more damping without it feeling harsh.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

mike156 said:


> 70/110 is where I started originally. I can revisit it with the intention of running less damping. I was trying to rely more on the damper than the spring but maybe that's not going to work.
> 
> [email protected], let's call it a portly 215 for the days I have a bunch of gear on. Any less air and it feels like a divey pile of crap?
> 
> ...


The HSB is unique i love mine. When I was 225 I couldn't get a fork to do what I wanted without a custom tune. The Mezzer is a great fork for out of the box, but at your weight it might not be enough.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86, I don't disagree that I might have recalibrate to a specific feel and the Mezzer might not be bad, it just feels so different that I'm not liking it. FWIW though, I was running the Lyrik at 72/110 psi with the Runt, which from the best I can tell isn't particularly high in spring pressure?

I did try a click more HSC and then like 3 clicks out on LSC and honestly it felt weird. Felt like it had zero support but then tons of harshness.

Half seem to be saying go higher on the spring and the other half suggest lower. Lol. Was hoping for some consensus on which way to go.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> CCS86, I don't disagree that I might have recalibrate to a specific feel and the Mezzer might not be bad, it just feels so different that I'm not liking it. FWIW though, I was running the Lyrik at 72/110 psi with the Runt, which from the best I can tell isn't particularly high in spring pressure?
> 
> I did try a click more HSC and then like 3 clicks out on LSC and honestly it felt weird. Felt like it had zero support but then tons of harshness.
> 
> Half seem to be saying go higher on the spring and the other half suggest lower. Lol. Was hoping for some consensus on which way to go.


I'd say there is consensus. Our setup tracker, across 25 entries, shows 9-10 psi under the Manitou chart for main and IRT pressure. Your IRT pressure is 22 psi*over *the Manitou chart, 32 psi over the user average. It doesn't shock me in the least that this feels weird and harsh.

Leave your main alone and try 90 psi in your IRT.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just looking back from where I started...



mike156 said:


> Set air based on the chart, 62/91psi for 200lbs.
> *From closed*
> Started at -
> LSC - 3
> ...


I'll try 90psi in the IRT again but with the LSC/HSC I'm running now. That post though got me the suggestion to run more IRT pressure last time I asked.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mike156 said:


> Just looking back from where I started...
> 
> I try back to 90psi in the IRT but with the LSC/HSC I'm running now. That post though got me the suggestion to run now IRT pressure last time I asked.


Try higher main and lower IRT. You will sacrifice small bumps for better big hit performance and maybe not to harsh midstroke. For me mezzer was kinda harsh on big hits while still bottoming. I had it only one day in bikepark so no real opportuninity to dial it in. I was like 50-60 main and 80-90 IRT for my 75kg and still bottoming. Also mattoc air spring was too linear for me. For comparison f36 20' 170mm at 75-77psi no tokens is pretty good. Softer dives on take offs and gives no support when pumping and at high speeds. For example Dougal use 55 psi in f36. I always scratched my head how the hell they can use so soft setups.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, with the Runt I was running like a 1.5:1 pressure ratio on the high/low chambers where I'm at 2:1 right now on the Mezzer. I can't remember if I tried HSC-2 originally with the 61/91pressures and there was a very noticable difference in damping across the board going from HSC-3 to HSC-2 (from closed).

I could still probably go 1-2 click faster on rebound to see if it's packing as well. The trails are massively blown out right now so if I can get it sorted in these conditions, it will handle anything I could ever throw at it.

I'll definitely do a service on it first to make sure everything is well lubed though.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, with the Runt I was running like a 1.5:1 pressure ratio on the high/low chambers where I'm at 2:1 right now on the Mezzer. I can't remember if I tried HSC-2 originally with the 61/91pressures and there was a very noticable difference in damping across the board going from HSC-3 to HSC-2 (from closed).
> 
> I could still probably go 1-2 click faster on rebound to see if it's packing as well. The trails are massively blown out right now so if I can get it sorted in these conditions, it will handle anything I could ever throw at it.
> 
> I'll definitely do a service on it first to make sure everything is well lubed though.


Another thing is supergliss is too thick for me. It restricts fork movement which transfer more harshness. All forks with supergliss was crap. Motorex power synt 5w40 is good compromise. Maybe motorex fork oil 15w too.


----------



## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

So the v2 lowers have an air bleeder built into them? Does anyone have pictures of these new lowers?
Also wonder how much heavier they are...


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

My 27.5 Mezzer with the vents was 2049g. This is with the axle, without the fender and on an uncut steerer. Thought I had a picture of the vents but guess not.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm fairly certain mine is the new lowers (since it's only a month old). It doesn't have a "vent" per se like the MRP or Fox lowers do. Mine just has a bolt that could be unthreaded to release built-up air. This photo shows it in the lowest section of the arch: https://s14761.pcdn.co/wp-content/u...r-Hayes-Sun-Ringle-News-2019-5350-810x540.jpg

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I had the MRP Ribbon (man, what a shitty fork) and no air ever came out of the valves. Same with the my friend's Fox 38.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

ungod said:


> I'm fairly certain mine is the new lowers (since it's only a month old). It doesn't have a "vent" per se like the MRP or Fox lowers do. Mine just has a bolt that could be unthreaded to release built-up air.


That's all it is, just little ports drilled and threaded with o-ring sealed, bolt like plugs. The ports come through behind the top of the upper bushing, right below the foam ring. There is a small relief to let the oil get out from behind the top edge of the bushing. They are more of a convenience for adding oil than anything, and they don't change the weight.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ungod said:


> I wouldn't worry about it too much, I had the MRP Ribbon (*man, what a shitty fork*) and no air ever came out of the valves. Same with the my friend's Fox 38.


Can you please elaborate a bit on this?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Curveball said:


> Can you please elaborate a bit on this?


My opinion the the Ribbon is the same...terrible fork. Damper spiked hardcore on any high speed action and almost went rock solid. Felt like huge amounts of stiction when riding it, could not wait to return that POS.

I just did a lower service on my Mezzer and even with the plastic ring mod the damper side bath oil had migrated up and around the damper. There was basically none in the lower leg. Is it possible for the damper vent valve to suck oil in? It didn't look like I had anywhere near the volume of bath oil in this leg and I'm pretty sure my bladder looks alot more full than when I installed it after a bleed on the last service.

This was using Supergliss 100k. I have changed to a lower viscosity Motorex to ascertain if that helps in keeping the oil where it should be and I've also enlarged the holes in the white plastic ring.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

springs said:


> My opinion the the Ribbon is the same...terrible fork. Damper spiked hardcore on any high speed action and almost went rock solid. Felt like huge amounts of stiction when riding it, could not wait to return that POS.


I have a Ribbon coil and experience the same thing at higher speeds. I'm quite surprised at how harsh a coil fork can be. I was hoping that there would be some solution to it besides selling at a loss and buying a Mezzer.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Curveball said:


> I have a Ribbon coil and experience the same thing at higher speeds. I'm quite surprised at how harsh a coil fork can be. I was hoping that there would be some solution to it besides selling at a loss and buying a Mezzer.


Mine was a coil too. Solution was the Mezzer lol.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

springs said:


> Mine was a coil too. Solution was the Mezzer lol.


The wife isn't going to like that answer.

I looked at the video of the Mezzer in action and thought, "I wish my fork did that".


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Curveball said:


> The wife isn't going to like that answer.
> 
> I looked at the video of the Mezzer in action and thought, "I wish my fork did that".


Probably best to ask for forgiveness rather than permission in this case lol


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

springs said:


> I just did a lower service on my Mezzer and even with the plastic ring mod the damper side bath oil had migrated up and around the damper. There was basically none in the lower leg. Is it possible for the damper vent valve to suck oil in? It didn't look like I had anywhere near the volume of bath oil in this leg and I'm pretty sure my bladder looks alot more full than when I installed it after a bleed on the last service.
> 
> This was using Supergliss 100k. I have changed to a lower viscosity Motorex to ascertain if that helps in keeping the oil where it should be and I've also enlarged the holes in the white plastic ring.


I also noticed most of my bath oil was gone damper side after 5 or so rides (decided to extend to 180mm) which made me wonder if I should be using some damper friendly fluid in there instead.

I doubt it would get in through the vent hole, likely a less aggressive seal at damper seal head letting thick oil through which is mostly fine thanks to vent valve ala fox grip

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Does anyone have information on the silver-colored Mezzer, as seen in the link below? I have only ever seen the black version for sale anywhere...

https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/06/in...hter-stiffer-180mm-enduro-mountain-bike-fork/


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

006_007 said:


> Probably best to ask for forgiveness rather than permission in this case lol


Typically, I'll use my year-end bonus for stuff like this, but business has been slow and I'm not sure that I'll get one this year.

I wonder how much I could get for my Ribbon? Unfortunately, it's the archaic 27.5 size.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> Mezzer eating chunk this morning:


That video should be used in a Manitou sales promo. I'm pretty sure that my Ribbon doesn't move and track the terrain that easily.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

olivierhacking said:


> Does anyone have information on the silver-colored Mezzer, as seen in the link below? I have only ever seen the black version for sale anywhere...
> 
> https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/06/in...hter-stiffer-180mm-enduro-mountain-bike-fork/


According to the article that you linked:

". The silver fork is a pre-production prototype ridden & tested by Hayes' product manager. It apparently got some good feedback from a wide range of sources, so Manitou is considering a special limited edition Mezzer in the future as well. We'll let you know if "secret silver" turns up as an option"


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Got some more rides on my 170 29 Mezzer

It is the best long travel fork I've ridden :thumbsup:

(My recent long travel fork comparisons are a Runt'd and DSD tuned Lyrik RCT3 and a Runt'd 2020 36 RC2)


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Ribbon air and coil (after conversion) were easily the worst fork I've ever ridden. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong.... Or the fork needed service, or the bushings needed reaming, or the chocolux was going to fix it all. It always felt good for the first few minutes of downhill and then it got terrible. It's completely untunable. I'd have no complaints if it were a $500 budget fork, but they charge as much as all the big name brands. Sucks because they're an American company and they seem like a great group of people.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

ungod said:


> Ribbon air and coil (after conversion) were easily the worst fork I've ever ridden. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong.... Or the fork needed service, or the bushings needed reaming, or the chocolux was going to fix it all. It always felt good for the first few minutes of downhill and then it got terrible. It's completely untunable. I'd have no complaints if it were a $500 budget fork, but they charge as much as all the big name brands. Sucks because they're an American company and they seem like a great group of people.


if performance vanish soon after service I'd say bushings. Second, just LSC in damper and the ramp up system is weird approach.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

nikon255 said:


> if performance vanish soon after service I'd say bushings. Second, just LSC in damper and the ramp up system is weird approach.


I sent my fork in several times with the same complaints and they reassured me each time that the bushings had been fixed or were in spec. I think the biggest issue for me was that I ride more on the back of the bike and so I need less HSC, which isn't adjustable or tunable on the Ribbon. It may be that my arms just fatigued after a few minutes or I started riding further back because my arms were pumped. Anyways, I'm off track on the thread... Loving the Mezzer!


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

springs said:


> My opinion the the Ribbon is the same...terrible fork. Damper spiked hardcore on any high speed action and almost went rock solid. Felt like huge amounts of stiction when riding it, could not wait to return that POS.
> 
> I just did a lower service on my Mezzer and even with the plastic ring mod the damper side bath oil had migrated up and around the damper. There was basically none in the lower leg. Is it possible for the damper vent valve to suck oil in? It didn't look like I had anywhere near the volume of bath oil in this leg and I'm pretty sure my bladder looks alot more full than when I installed it after a bleed on the last service.
> 
> This was using Supergliss 100k. I have changed to a lower viscosity Motorex to ascertain if that helps in keeping the oil where it should be and I've also enlarged the holes in the white plastic ring.











whats the "plastic ring mod" which part do you drill?


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

*pos/neg pressure tweaking*

Hi, 
I noticed when airing mezzer main chamber that the positive and negative chambers do not connect/disconnect at same moment , at least on my fork. On my fork when I mount the pump thread slowly enough I see fisrt change of the pressure , followed by another change of pressure when going deeper with the thread.Correct me If I am wrong m the first should be positive , the second negative.
So I came to this idea , connect the pump fully and set the desired negative air chamber pressure , than disconnect and mount the pump only to the "first point" and set the positive pressure. Ehm? Hope I am clear enough. 
And now I would like to open discussion of what would be the benefits to have slightly different pressures in positive and negative chambers ? For example compensate the fact that the negative chamber volume is reduced when travel spacers are in place? I 'd like to hear your inputs 

btw
I think the digital pump , best with zero leak valve, is must for this operation, tested syncros sp1 and surprisingly it really works exactly as expected, I can recommend.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just adding a data point after opening up my fork for a lowers service.

Zero grease on the wipers
Oil level, who knows but a bunch came out
Air spring seemed reasonably well greased
IRT was greased

Also pulled out the damper, no oil was in the stanchion and the bladder was just slightly sucked in at full extension. Could be confirmation bias, but the damper feels almost identical in HSC fully open and 1 click in with LSC set up max. Very little difference between LSC fully open and fully closed in these positions too. Put HSC to 2 clicks from open though and it's a noticeable amount more damping and you can easily tell the difference between LSC open and closed.

After reassembly of the air-spring with grease, the action wasn't smooth. Compressing the spring and letting the negative side push the shaft back out would cause noticable jitter. I replaced the 3cc of extra grease the manual calls for on top of the piston with 3cc of 5w-40 and it's silky smooth now. Added a bit of oil to the top of the IRT as well.

Oiled the foam rings and then liberally applied slickolium to the wipers and bushings. Hope this smooths out the chatter performance so I can add some more support.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Just adding a data point after opening up my fork for a lowers service.
> 
> Zero grease on the wipers
> Oil level, who knows but a bunch came out
> ...


A couple of notes.
SKF say not to grease the wipers, use bath fluid instead. You can obviously do whatever you like but the factory isn't going to grease them. I grease mine and have no issues.

I have strong suspicion that the difference between HSC 0 and +1 won't be felt at shim lift and requires higher velocities. I may get a chance to test that later.

The slight notchiness on reassembly is common to pretty much every just serviced fork and no amount of lubing seems to overcome it. But as soon as the forks are ridden it goes away. I suspect it's seals moving in their grooves.

Oil acts a solvent to grease and can wash away a film that will stay longer without the oil. Oil on top of air pistons will migrate down to fill up your negative chamber. It will likely also blow out into your shock pump on pressure checks.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, I assumed the wipers would be dry. Was good to see the IRT wasn't though.

Could be right on the HSC, there might be a bit of difference at high velocity. I don't think it matters though as there is VERY little damping either way with HSC open/1 click in.

FWIW, on the Lyrik when I would inspect it, I didn't find that the oil had migrated to the negative side. It pretty much just mixes with the grease and ends up stuck to the side wall, right where you want it. 3cc isn't a lot and it more or less just coats the stanchion wall. Also, that's on a fork with an equalization dimple which seems like it would make it even more likely to have oil migrate into the negative side. 

The Mezzer also has the valve poppet about 1/4" up of the top of the piston. There is a decent amount of volume that the oil can sit in and not go above the valve, sitting on a 64* HT angle, even more so. Flip the bike over to fill the fork and it's a non-issue. I don't think oil migrating into the negative side is going to be an issue at all, but you could be right.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

gfelix said:


> whats the "plastic ring mod" which part do you drill?


Post 1216 shows the ring. It threads into the bottom of the RH fork stanchion. I've drilled bigger holes hoping it'll not hold the bath oil up inside the stanchion.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I grease all moving parts properly und fill only 1-2mls inside the main and irt chamber. That should help and not migrate


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

bansaiman said:


> I grease all moving parts properly und fill only 1-2mls inside the main and irt chamber. That should help and not migrate


Do you notice any difference vs not having any oil (just grease) in the air chambers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

springs said:


> Post 1216 shows the ring. It threads into the bottom of the RH fork stanchion. I've drilled bigger holes hoping it'll not hold the bath oil up inside the stanchion.





edge540T said:


> I made some pics of new unit, oil is trapped on damper leg so here is a different aproach of what I've seen.
> Damper full extended and full crompessed brand new as come on the other pic.
> 
> My concerns are,
> ...


thanks!


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

torcha said:


> Hi,
> I noticed when airing mezzer main chamber that the positive and negative chambers do not connect/disconnect at same moment , at least on my fork. On my fork when I mount the pump thread slowly enough I see fisrt change of the pressure , followed by another change of pressure when going deeper with the thread.Correct me If I am wrong m the first should be positive , the second negative.
> So I came to this idea , connect the pump fully and set the desired negative air chamber pressure , than disconnect and mount the pump only to the "first point" and set the positive pressure. Ehm? Hope I am clear enough.
> And now I would like to open discussion of what would be the benefits to have slightly different pressures in positive and negative chambers ? For example compensate the fact that the negative chamber volume is reduced when travel spacers are in place? I 'd like to hear your inputs
> ...


I did the homework on this topic, found this. It is negative chamber which opens first when you connect the pump, the positive port opens bit later , like 1,5 revolution of the pump valve thread. And yes I was able to use this gap to set different negative and positive pressure with accuracy and repetition.(having digital zero leak pump). Had quick ride with negative plus 2psi and I would say I felt aditional softness. I think more difference would be visible as sucking of travel, so this is no big playground here , just little tweak. 
But I realized something important what may affect anyone here and perhaps explain people complaining about Mezzer suddenly became harsh when it felt good before. It may easily happen that when you disconnect the pump , you are not fast enough to prevent leak, quite normal but because the chambers do not disconnect at same moment , the leak happens only to negative chamber and because it is quite small , even little leak could mean few psi down against positive chamber and here you have bit of a numb fork at the beginning of the travel. So be real fast upon disconnecting or get zero leak pump


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Hi Folks


I’ve also been having a real hard time tuning out high speed chatter and getting the fork to blow off on square edge hits. I can’t get the fork to hold a line when it gets fast, rough and steep. 

After experimenting with psi forever I’ve come to the conclusion that the fork is just overdamped for my tastes. I’m running zero turns of either compression and even at completely unreasonable psi the fork reacts poorly in small chatter & square edge impacts. 

Has anyone tried a lighter weight oil in the damper? I’m kinda on my last effort with this thing before I go back to the lyrik that feels infinitely better at the moment. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

elsinore said:


> Hi Folks
> 
> I've also been having a real hard time tuning out high speed chatter and getting the fork to blow off on square edge hits. I can't get the fork to hold a line when it gets fast, rough and steep.
> 
> ...


That is really bizarre. I find the fork totally excels at these things.

Maybe read the post just above yours.

Is your fork easy to compress off the top by hand? (Very little force to start the stroke?)

Have you had the air spring and IRT out to check for grease, and lowers for bath oil?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

torcha said:


> I did the homework on this topic, found this. It is negative chamber which opens first when you connect the pump, the positive port opens bit later , like 1,5 revolution of the pump valve thread. And yes I was able to use this gap to set different negative and positive pressure with accuracy and repetition.(having digital zero leak pump). Had quick ride with negative plus 2psi and I would say I felt aditional softness. I think more difference would be visible as sucking of travel, so this is no big playground here , just little tweak.
> But I realized something important what may affect anyone here and perhaps explain people complaining about Mezzer suddenly became harsh when it felt good before. It may easily happen that when you disconnect the pump , you are not fast enough to prevent leak, quite normal but because the chambers do not disconnect at same moment , the leak happens only to negative chamber and because it is quite small , even little leak could mean few psi down against positive chamber and here you have bit of a numb fork at the beginning of the travel. So be real fast upon disconnecting or get zero leak pump


Interesting observations by you and torcha.

I feel like you can get a similar effect by tweaking the fork position during pump disconnect. If you want it more firm off the top, you can pull down on the lowers (compressing the top out bumper) while disconnecting. I personally don't like this at all. Or, in the other direction, you can slightly compress the fork at disconnect for more plushness off the top.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

elsinore said:


> Hi Folks
> 
> I've also been having a real hard time tuning out high speed chatter and getting the fork to blow off on square edge hits. I can't get the fork to hold a line when it gets fast, rough and steep.
> 
> ...


I had same problem , I am light weight and this worked for me. 
I was running 40 main and 60/70/80 IRT (travel 155mm) , playng with compressions and nothing.
Then I got inspired here but I do not remember the name, anyway I rised the main pressure a bit add much more rebound and went down on IRT. Ended with 
43/58 HSC full open, LSC 3 from closed, Rebound 7 from closed and that did the job finally.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

CCS86 said:


> That is really bizarre. I find the fork totally excels at these things.
> 
> Maybe read the post just above yours.
> 
> ...


Yes. IRT is greased, and all the tricks listed here have been implemented. Slick Honey on the seals and I've also sucked down the spring not quite 10mm to increase negative chamber size.

I'm about to try a dab of oil on the air spring as well, but like I said I think it's damper related.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

What is your weight/travel/pressures/clickers?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

CCS86 said:


> What is your weight/travel/pressures/clickers?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I'm 180lbs and live in North Conway, NH where we have very steep, rough long descents. Think BC, north shore terrain. 
At the moment I'm running 49 psi main 75 IRT. The fork is set at 180, but sucked down to 170 via the negative chamber trick and it's on a 2020 spec enduro that I mostly run in the slack setting. I've gone as low as 38 psi main 70 Irt and also as high as 60-90.

Currently the PSI is as low as I can stand it without feeling too divey. I have zero clicks of HSC or LSC and rebound at +4 from open.

There are aspects of the fork I absolutely love like the structural stiffness, the HBO circuit ( no more spiking!) and how high it settles into its travel for steeps, but generally speaking the lyrik totally outperforms the mezzer in high speed chop and steep, fast gnar. Specifically I'm getting a lot more fatigued with the mezzer and my Strava times have been slower all round, particularly the longer and rougher the track is.

I run the lyrik with at mid LSC one token and 80-85 psi.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Without your travel, the pressures don't mean much. A 40mm range of travel options, means a wide range of pressures for the same weight rider.

Factory fill in the lowers? Have you checked quantity?

In my experience, this fork *crushes* a Charger 2 Pike in chunky terrain... and everywhere else.

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541-11.html#post14987595


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

elsinore said:


> I'm 180lbs and live in North Conway, NH where we have very steep, rough long descents. Think BC, north shore terrain.
> At the moment I'm running 49 psi main 75 IRT. The fork is set at 180, but sucked down to 170 via the negative chamber trick and it's on a 2020 spec enduro that I mostly run in the slack setting. I've gone as low as 38 psi main 70 Irt and also as high as 60-90.
> 
> Currently the PSI is as low as I can stand it without feeling too divey. I have zero clicks of HSC or LSC and rebound at +4 from open.
> ...


Your bike is design for which optimal travel 170 or 180? I would not do the negative chamber trick, that should be minor tweak at the end , not major think for mezzer setup, will just confuse you now. for 180 I would try something like 42/58 , LSC almost closed HSC full open and rebound almost full open , see how it goes , adding plus 2 psi to both to see if it gets better. Not saying it must work but I would give it try.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm trying to understand why the white collar is in the damper leg at all?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> I'm trying to understand why the white collar is in the damper leg at all?


Stops the stanchions cutting the bottom out bumpers.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

And provides radial support to the damper assembly.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Bumper makes sense.

I get support on the damper, but as none of the other forks do it, I'm trying to wrap my head around if it might actually make binding more of an issue as the stanchions flex? Normally the damper would flex as a half wave contour, put a support in the middle though and now it's a full wave bending contour.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

It's not a rigid support. An o-ring is actually supporting it. Plus the damper rod isn't able to transmit much bending into the damper body anyway.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm thinking more that the stanchion flexes, compresses the o-ring and then the damper hits the collar and the damper starts flexing with the stanchion. Those pinkbike Huck to flat videos show some considerable stanchion flex.

I wasn't paying all that much attention to it though when it was apart so maybe that's not how it all aligns.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Thinking about getting a Mezzer soon, after reading through a LOT of posts here, one thing I'm surprised by is the oil from the lowers being sucked up into the damper. 

In my experience of my Pikes, oil in the lowers can get pretty dirty (ok, maybe I should service the lowers more often!), given this and that it's a different weight oil altogether to the damping oil, and I wouldn't want that mixing with the damper.

There seem to be mixed results of modifying the plastic piece that the o-ring sits on to help it drain?

Any thoughts on this? I'm sort of surprised to see this being dismissed a bit, it seems like more of a problem to me than the bottom out bumper issue?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

spicy said:


> Thinking about getting a Mezzer soon, after reading through a LOT of posts here, one thing I'm surprised by is the oil from the lowers being sucked up into the damper.
> 
> In my experience of my Pikes, oil in the lowers can get pretty dirty (ok, maybe I should service the lowers more often!), given this and that it's a different weight oil altogether to the damping oil, and I wouldn't want that mixing with the damper.
> 
> ...


This issue has been an odd one for a while, it has probably gotten more attention that it deserves and I am somewhat guilty for this because I was quite curious about it myself, having ordered a Mezzer around the same time it was first being mentioned. I don't discount the experiences of the guys that have reported it, but I don't think it is as common as the posts about it might indicate. In my experience, the fork has always worked very well.

The damper seal head is below the stanchion cap, so the cap shouldn't have anything to do with the damper ingesting bath oil. I haven't observed any of the problems with either bath oil loss or oil mixing and purging from the damper, and even though I did the cap mod way back when I first bought my Mezzer, before I rode it, I'm still not sure if it really makes a difference. But I wasn't one of the guys with the problem of oil collecting in the stanchion, I was just looking to eliminate it as a possibility. And it was and still is unclear if it involved the oil inside the damper as well. I can't see any problem with opening the grooves up, it was a low effort modification with no downside and maybe a benefit.

Later on, the last time I had the lowers off, I looked as close as I could and it doesn't look like the o-ring that acts as a bumper is large enough or tight enough on the cap to form a seal, even without the deeper grooves, but I suppose it's also possible that there could be slight differences between forks, or maybe between 29" and 27.5" versions?

There is one other thought I have had about this, there must be a lot of air moving through that very narrow gap on deep compression strokes, and adding holes or opening up the grooves would change this air flow, too. I don't know that it is enough to make any meaningful difference to the forks operation, it's just something that occured to me, the air trapped in the lowers will want to move back and forth into the stanchion on compression, and that narrow gap between the cap and damper body is the only path, just as it would be for oil drainback.

This photo is of mine with some of the grooves deepened with a small file, but otherwise stock. You can just see the o-ring up in there, it is placed around the damper body as a bumper, it doesn't seem to have an intended sealing function. When I dropped the lowers and took this picture, the bath oil appearance and volume was still identical on both sides so I do not believe there was any appreciable ingestion of bath oil by the damper, this was after a few months of riding the fork, and was the first time I had it apart after initially servicing it to change the travel and check lubrication.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> I'm thinking more that the stanchion flexes, compresses the o-ring and then the damper hits the collar and the damper starts flexing with the stanchion. Those pinkbike Huck to flat videos show some considerable stanchion flex.
> 
> I wasn't paying all that much attention to it though when it was apart so maybe that's not how it all aligns.


Something I have noticed about the Mezzer damper, if you compare it to a similar damper like a FIT4, is that Manitou has designed a bit of wiggle into the shaft, the damper rod does not feel as stiff and resistant to side loads as the Fox damper rod. I assume this is intentional and it does not affect the damping action or sealing, but it would seem that it could eliminate some flex induced binding of the damper.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I'm thinking more that the stanchion flexes, compresses the o-ring and then the damper hits the collar and the damper starts flexing with the stanchion. Those pinkbike Huck to flat videos show some considerable stanchion flex.
> 
> I wasn't paying all that much attention to it though when it was apart so maybe that's not how it all aligns.


The only thing that can flex the stanchions is the lowers (via the bushing interface). So, with the damper rod fixed to the lowers, everything will tend to flex together. It sounds like you are describing the lowers flexing independently of the stanchions, which given the design isn't going to happen appreciably.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Dumb question so I apoligize. After pushing my Pike Ultimate pretty hard at the bike park this week and finding out the shortcomings I think I am ready to get something better. Being that the Mattoc and the Mezzer are basically the same weight, is there a single reason to get a Mattoc over a Mezzer? I will be running the new fork mostly at 140mm but will bump it to 160mm at times. The Mezzer seems like the obvious choice but just want to see if I am missing something.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

bigdrunk said:


> Dumb question so I apoligize. After pushing my Pike Ultimate pretty hard at the bike park this week and finding out the shortcomings I think I am ready to get something better. Being that the Mattoc and the Mezzer are basically the same weight, is there a single reason to get a Mattoc over a Mezzer? I will be running the new fork mostly at 140mm but will bump it to 160mm at times. The Mezzer seems like the obvious choice but just want to see if I am missing something.


 Mezzer is performing well in 140 mm, maybe if you are superlight I would consider mattoc , but many here me included were able to dial Mezzer progressive air spring with 160lbs , check the table to get picture https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86, nah, I was thinking multiple part assembly flex with some complaint parts mixed in. I'd have to model it up and run a simulation though to see what's actually going on. But, the damper body would naturally stay perpendicular to the crown as the stanchions flexes if there is nothing to apply force to the damper body. This would mean the damper body and stanchion are no longer concentric at the seal head end. Put a collar there though and that collar is going to try and force the damper back into the center. As the damper isn't a tube all the way to the crown, it's likely going to flex at the basevalve connection area where stiffness is (likely) the lowest.

FWIW, most of the strain looks to happen at the stanchion/crown interface. Makes sense why they start creeking. While I'm sure some bending does occur in the stanchion it's self, I imagine the majority of the displacement is due to the bolted/press-fit cantilevered connection going into the crown.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, most of the strain looks to happen at the stanchion/crown interface. Makes sense why they start creeking. While I'm sure some bending does occur in the stanchion it's self, I imagine the majority of the displacement is due to the bolted/press-fit cantilevered connection going into the crown.


Was privy to an email that Chris Porter of Mojo sent an EXT distributor regarding SC fork suspension flex as measured utilizing tooling and high speed cameras they put together specifically for measuring these things.
As you pointed out, the excessive flex in these systems comes primarily from the crown/ steerer interface. 
EXT is claiming considerably more rigidity from the ERA than the 2 major players' 38mm offerings as a result of their machined crown.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Thx. I am about 210 lbs with pack, etc. I was looking at DSD Runts, HC97's, etc, etc and you can get up to $400+ in "upgrades" pretty quick. Its probably best to put that towards a fork that sounds like it works right out of the box. I also like the idea of using travel spacers vs. having to by new air shafts. Time to start looking for a deal on a 29" 44mm offset.



torcha said:


> Mezzer is performing well in 140 mm, maybe if you are superlight I would consider mattoc , but many here me included were able to dial Mezzer progressive air spring with 160lbs , check the table to get picture https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zWF5NkgZRzZCsmjhLGlpCLnO0eU/edit#gid=71184370


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Was privy to an email that Chris Porter of Mojo sent an EXT distributor regarding SC fork suspension flex as measured utilizing tooling and high speed cameras they put together specifically for measuring these things.
> As you pointed out, the excessive flex in these systems comes primarily from the crown/ steerer interface.
> EXT is claiming considerably more rigidity from the ERA than the 2 major players' 38mm offerings as a result of their machined crown.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I can see nothing externally that would give the 36mm ERA the world-beating stiffness they are claiming. The crown just doesn't have the external size required and their steerer is a smaller diameter than everyone elses.
Torsional stiffness in a crown comes from large diameters. Their crown is thin and wide instead.

Stiffness testing doesn't require high speed cameras. It is best done in a completely static rig. Are they ever going to release some test data to backup these claims?

EXT ERA crown:









Manitou Mezzer crown:

















Fox F38 crown:









RS Zeb crown:


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

bigdrunk said:


> Dumb question so I apoligize. After pushing my Pike Ultimate pretty hard at the bike park this week and finding out the shortcomings I think I am ready to get something better. Being that the Mattoc and the Mezzer are basically the same weight, is there a single reason to get a Mattoc over a Mezzer? I will be running the new fork mostly at 140mm but will bump it to 160mm at times. The Mezzer seems like the obvious choice but just want to see if I am missing something.


I've owned both & I am currently on a mezzer. I had to send my mattoc for warranty & was on a dvo diamond for a little while, then replaced it with the mezzer.

From the outset they both take time & experimentation to get to ride how you want, the mezzer has taken me longer but I'm getting close to what I want.
The mattoc Has a more linear air spring & IRT, The mezzer has a more progressive air spring & IRT.
Someone previously said the mezzer is like a more refined version of a mattoc in a stiffer chassis & I would agree with that to a point, they do share some similarities but they can behave very differently with their psi setups.
Small psi changes have a greater effect on the mezzer compared to the mattoc, so the mattock is more forgiving in that regard. I do find the mezzer has been the more finicky to get to a happy place.

I actually really liked the way the Mattoc performed, it has an ability to ride really well in every situation. It has enough flex not send too much harsh feedback to your hands if the setup isn't quite right. 
If your doing a lot of general trail riding & occasional park days it is a viable option.

If you doing a lot of park days & occasional trail riding where you value a stiffer fork, then the mezzer is probably the better option.
The stiffness does however transmit more feedback to your hands if the setup isn't quite right when compared to the mattoc.
I've found it's taken me longer to get to my preferred setup on the mezzer due to the above stiffness in regards to hand feel.

As far as servicing goes the mezzer is by far the easiest fork I've ever owned to remove the lowers on, the mattoc is also easy but has a few more steps in the process.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> I can see nothing externally that would give the 36mm ERA the world-beating stiffness they are claiming. The crown just doesn't have the external size required and their steerer is a smaller diameter than everyone elses.
> Torsional stiffness in a crown comes from large diameters. Their crown is thin and wide instead.
> 
> Stiffness testing doesn't require high speed cameras. It is best done in a completely static rig. Are they ever going to release some test data to backup these claims?
> ...


I think with all of these manufacturer claims we have to take their word on it.
That said, I lot of money was spent machining the custom crown on the ERA and the advantages of thickness alone can be overcame thru better engineering and materials. I assume EXT measured and built in the stiffness they consider so critical to proper air spring function. Clearly a lot of wiggle occurs right at that crown/ steerer interface and EXT has shifted that joint up above the lower headset bearing to stabilize it.. 
I mean the 37mm Mezzer is said to be 1% stiffer laterally than a 35mm Lyric, an inconsequential amount imo. Heck the Lyric was measured at 30% stiffer than a Fox 36. Obviously something in the design of the RS product results in high stiffness even with the 35mm stanchion handicap. So size isn't everything. 
Anyways, at more than 2x the price and another 150 grams the ERA darn well should/ better be stiffer!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Not sure if news, but:

New mezzer expert and limited edition mezzer Pro out soon v


Anyone got any details?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

CaveGiant said:


> Not sure if news, but:
> 
> New mezzer expert and limited edition mezzer Pro out soon v
> 
> Anyone got any details?


Of course it had to happen. Where did you hear this?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Probably grey in color, nothing else changes. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

bigdrunk said:


> Thx. I am about 210 lbs with pack, etc. I was looking at DSD Runts, HC97's, etc, etc and you can get up to $400+ in "upgrades" pretty quick. Its probably best to put that towards a fork that sounds like it works right out of the box. I also like the idea of using travel spacers vs. having to by new air shafts. Time to start looking for a deal on a 29" 44mm offset.


Did the DSD Runt and HC97.

Mezzer is superior to that combo by a long shot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Thats good to hear. There looks to be a worldwide famine on 44mm 29er Mezzers right now.



Th3Bill said:


> Did the DSD Runt and HC97.
> 
> Mezzer is superior to that combo by a long shot
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

bigdrunk said:


> Thats good to hear. There looks to be a worldwide famine on 44mm 29er Mezzers right now.


Not sure what frame you're on, but I have a Ripmo v1 (44mm offset as well). I couldn't find a 44 offset Mezzer so I switched to a 51. Previously had a GRIP2 36 @ 44mm offset. I'm not sure I really have a preference between the two -- the longer offset increases trail a little bit, and the bike is slightly more stable in a straight line. I might pay for it a little bit in tight switchbacks, but it's been a very subtle change.

I rode the same bike back-to-back with a 44 and then 51mm offset fork, and I honestly don't have a preference between the two. Each one has a slight advantage over the other, but neither is really "better" for me.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I think EXT/Mojo have found that big diameter, thicker wall steerer tube, or beefier crowns will not eliminate the week spot between crown and steerer tube? It is as I understand been done all sort of testing and benchmarking. The best measured fork was a non Taiwan made, that in a given scenario in testing measured 50kg resistance due to friction.......???

It would have been redicoulus if EXT made a fork that would not be superior to the competitors. It was a really dumb way to spend to much money and to loose all respect.



Dougal said:


> I can see nothing externally that would give the 36mm ERA the world-beating stiffness they are claiming. The crown just doesn't have the external size required and their steerer is a smaller diameter than everyone elses.
> Torsional stiffness in a crown comes from large diameters. Their crown is thin and wide instead.
> 
> Stiffness testing doesn't require high speed cameras. It is best done in a completely static rig. Are they ever going to release some test data to backup these claims?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I think EXT/Mojo have found that big diameter, thicker wall steerer tube, or beefier crowns will not eliminate the week spot between crown and steerer tube? It is as I understand been done all sort of testing and benchmarking. The best measured fork was a non Taiwan made, that in a given scenario in testing measured 50kg resistance due to friction.......???
> 
> It would have been redicoulus if EXT made a fork that would not be superior to the competitors. It was a really dumb way to spend to much money and to loose all respect.


The 50 kg friction of the Ohlins fork that Porter refers to is damping, as in sliding friction. Nothing to do with how they measured flex, most of which comes from the crown/ steerer interface. 
50 kg worth of friction is insane, and not at all surprising when you feel how little damping resistance is built in to the actual damping rods. This is because fork manufacturers have to try and account for all that friction by dramatically lightening their valving.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ungod said:


> -- the longer offset increases trail a little bit, and the bike is slightly more stable in a straight line. I might pay for it a little bit in tight switchbacks, but it's been a very subtle change.


Other way around. Larger fork offset reduces trail by pushing the contact patch closer to the steering axis.

But I agree that 7mm offset doesn't make or break anything.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I think EXT/Mojo have found that big diameter, thicker wall steerer tube, or beefier crowns will not eliminate the week spot between crown and steerer tube? It is as I understand been done all sort of testing and benchmarking. The best measured fork was a non Taiwan made, that in a given scenario in testing measured 50kg resistance due to friction.......???
> 
> It would have been redicoulus if EXT made a fork that would not be superior to the competitors. It was a really dumb way to spend to much money and to loose all respect.


Unless you have more actual data, it is a big assumption that just because somebody set out to engineer something with improved stiffness, and spent money to do so, that this automatically means they succeeded and made a "superior" product.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

I agree in what you are saying, but remember what is making sliding friction? It is also from the misalignment between the inner stanchions caused by flexing/twisting in the crowns.

I was mentioning the Ohlins as an expample of what is tested and found from testing other forks.

It will be really interesting to see what EXT`s extended testing and there of careful material choice and technical design to avvoid friction/stiction, will perform.

Most of the technical designs used in the ERA is already implemented in other forks out there, so what they have done is refining it all. I think of it like EXT Era is the swiss made watch made with high quality parts with super accuracy. While some manufacturers out there wants to sell Taiwan made watches at Swiss made prices.

In that regard I think Manitou is selling higher performance then the big competitors at fair prices. 
Unfortunately there has a lot to say how big the marketing budget is in this business.......



Suns_PSD said:


> The 50 kg friction of the Ohlins fork that Porter refers to is damping, as in sliding friction. Nothing to do with how they measured flex, most of which comes from the crown/ steerer interface.
> 50 kg worth of friction is insane, and not at all surprising when you feel how little damping resistance is built in to the actual damping rods. This is because fork manufacturers have to try and account for all that friction by dramatically lightening their valving.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I think of it like EXT Era is the swiss made watch made with high quality parts with super accuracy.


And with a body made by Casio?


----------



## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> Unless you have more actual data, it is a big assumption that just because somebody set out to engineer something with improved stiffness, and spent money to do so, that this automatically means they succeeded and made a "superior" product.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


We are still waiting to see the proper testing and info from Manitou on the testing of the mezza and other forks.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Rick Draper said:


> We are still waiting to see the proper testing and info from Manitou on the testing of the mezza and other forks.


Are we?

I don't know that Manitou is obligated to release internal testing data to the public. When you make stiffness claims relative to other forks, like they have, it would be nice to see the test setup and raw data.

The Mezzer is a very well designed fork. It has ~50mm of engaged length in the 37mm diameter crown press fit, and well optimized ribbing. It's stiff. But more importantly, it works well on trail because of low friction operation, a great air spring and very good damper.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> CCS86, nah, I was thinking multiple part assembly flex with some complaint parts mixed in. I'd have to model it up and run a simulation though to see what's actually going on. But, the damper body would naturally stay perpendicular to the crown as the stanchions flexes if there is nothing to apply force to the damper body. This would mean the damper body and stanchion are no longer concentric at the seal head end. Put a collar there though and that collar is going to try and force the damper back into the center. As the damper isn't a tube all the way to the crown, it's likely going to flex at the basevalve connection area where stiffness is (likely) the lowest.
> 
> FWIW, most of the strain looks to happen at the stanchion/crown interface. Makes sense why they start creeking. While I'm sure some bending does occur in the stanchion it's self, I imagine the majority of the displacement is due to the bolted/press-fit cantilevered connection going into the crown.


The crown definitely sees the highest bending moment, but most definitely not the highest displacement. Maybe you picked the wrong word there. With the steerer fixed, and a radial load applied at the axle, the highest displacement is near the axle.

You would see deformation along the entire stressed assembly (to different degrees): lowers, stanchions, crown, steerer. Unless your crown is creaking like crazy, there is essentially no differential motion between the crown and stanchions.

I agree that the damper body wants to stay perpendicular to the top cap. But, there will be bending in the crown, between the steerer and stanchion interface, that allows the whole top cap to rotate, pointing the damper in the direction of loading and easing the bending on the damper assembly.

Given that the highest displacement is at the foot nut where the damper shaft connects, you will have a radial load to the damper shaft, generating a moment in the seal head, which is not good. Adding some support to the damper body near the cantelevered tip, would help mitigate this.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I think with all of these manufacturer claims we have to take their word on it.
> That said, I lot of money was spent machining the custom crown on the ERA and the advantages of thickness alone can be overcame thru better engineering and materials. I assume EXT measured and built in the stiffness they consider so critical to proper air spring function. Clearly a lot of wiggle occurs right at that crown/ steerer interface and EXT has shifted that joint up above the lower headset bearing to stabilize it..
> I mean the 37mm Mezzer is said to be 1% stiffer laterally than a 35mm Lyric, an inconsequential amount imo. Heck the Lyric was measured at 30% stiffer than a Fox 36. Obviously something in the design of the RS product results in high stiffness even with the 35mm stanchion handicap. So size isn't everything.
> Anyways, at more than 2x the price and another 150 grams the ERA darn well should/ better be stiffer!
> ...


Maybe you're new to the world of marketing claims. But the whole "they said it so must be true" is not a good place to start.

Especially when the same companies other claims (friction etc) make zero sense and come from the marketing depto, not an engineering department.

Engineering is about creating the right materials and geometry. You cannot have a smaller tube that is stiffer in torsion and bending than a bigger one. It simply doesn't work that way.

I have pasted my above post back to the ERA thread in the hope of unclogging this one.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> Not sure if news, but:
> 
> New mezzer expert and limited edition mezzer Pro out soon v
> 
> Anyone got any details?


In general Expert level Manitou forks run the same chassis as the Pro models but with a damper that is cheaper to manufacture and sometimes has less adjustment.

In the Mattoc the Pro got the semi-cartridge damper and the Expert got a full leg diameter one that was cheaper to manufacture with fewer parts but also heavier due to about 100cc more oil.

Limited Edition is cosmetic and a bit dearer. If anyone wants to throw down a deposit I can probably take orders on email.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

*Another solid review.*

https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/manitou-mezzer-pro-fork

An overall thorough, accurate and fair review. And it included a cool image I had not seen before:


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> We are still waiting to see the proper testing and info from Manitou on the testing of the mezza and other forks.


Manitou released it all internally. I don't think the graphs are for public release but I have posted the same comparison numbers that media have released.

If you don't believe their numbers you are welcome to run your own tests. I'm confident they'll agree. All the claims made make sense and fit with the physical geometry and riding impressions.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Yeah a really disappointing issue, but I can understand that they cannot make their own production since it costs 150K USD to make their own.....



Mudguard said:


> And with a body made by Casio?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> In general Expert level Manitou forks run the same chassis as the Pro models but with a damper that is cheaper to manufacture and sometimes has less adjustment.
> 
> In the Mattoc the Pro got the semi-cartridge damper and the Expert got a full leg diameter one that was cheaper to manufacture with fewer parts but also heavier due to about 100cc more oil.
> 
> Limited Edition is cosmetic and a bit dearer. If anyone wants to throw down a deposit I can probably take orders on email.


Do you know anything else about the LE other than it's 'cosmetic and a bit dearer '?
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Do you know anything else about the LE other than it's 'cosmetic and a bit dearer '?
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Yes. But that's pretty much what it is. I don't know exactly what they'll look like until I open my own one.

Hayes and Manitou have a long history of making special editions with unique looks. One of the earliest was the Purple Hayes Brake from way back:








The most recent was the Blaze camo Mastodon: https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/01/st...anitou-mastodon-pro-ltd-in-blaze-orange-camo/


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, most of the strain looks to happen at the stanchion/crown interface. Makes sense why they start creeking. While I'm sure some bending does occur in the stanchion it's self, I imagine the majority of the displacement is due to the bolted/press-fit cantilevered connection going into the crown.





CCS86 said:


> The crown definitely sees the highest bending moment, but most definitely not the highest displacement. Maybe you picked the wrong word there. With the steerer fixed, and a radial load applied at the axle, the highest displacement is near the axle.


Ah, we are saying the samething. Notice I said strain and not displacement. What I said is correct. The highest stain is the same place as the highest stress and is likely in the crown/stanchion interface.

It's a fair point though, a good amount of the displacement seen at the axle likely happening from torsion stain in the crown so the top cap will stay reasonably in alignment with the stanchion.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Ah, we are saying the samething. But strain and displacement are not the same thing. What I said is correct. The highest stain is likely in the crown/stanchion interface.
> 
> It's a fair point though, a good amount of the displacement seen at the axle likely happening from torsion stain in the crown so the top cap will stay reasonably in alignment with the stanchion.


As far as I'm concerned the stanchion tube itself is the most rigid part of a fork by a long shot. Flex is about the crown, steerer, brace and axle. Which of those matters more depends on what flex mode you're interested in.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Looks like the expert models loose the IRT as well as the different damper?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Looks like the expert models loose the IRT as well as the different damper?


It's a 5 minute screw in upgrade if you want it.

from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...9-160-mm-15-x-110-mm-44-mm-offset-matte-black


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> As far as I'm concerned the stanchion tube itself is the most rigid part of a fork by a long shot. Flex is about the crown, steerer, brace and axle. Which of those matters more depends on what flex mode you're interested in.


Agreed.

It's not that larger diameter tubes, all else being equal, aren't more rigid (they are) it's just that this doesn't appear to be the primary point of flex in a SC fork. There are other spots. Bushing fit and overlap, axle design, hub interface, crown/ steerer, etc.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> Other way around. Larger fork offset reduces trail by pushing the contact patch closer to the steering axis.
> 
> But I agree that 7mm offset doesn't make or break anything.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Somehow I always manage to mix up trail/wheelbase, but after doing some reading it looks like the change to wheelbase between a 44mm and 51mm offset fork is pretty negligible anyways. Either way, I have no complaints about the bike with either fork offset.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Fascinating to see all theories around what is important in designing a fork the right way here. 

By all respect, with some of you having years of experience in the business, or to them who only speculates. Do you really mean that you can by pictures know how a fork will perform? It is really without respect!

At least I get less respect for those who speculate like that.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Ah, we are saying the samething. Notice I said strain and not displacement. What I said is correct. The highest stain is the same place as the highest stress and is likely in the crown/stanchion interface.
> 
> It's a fair point though, a good amount of the displacement seen at the axle likely happening from torsion stain in the crown so the top cap will stay reasonably in alignment with the stanchion.


Consensus on the internet! Very nice. 

I could have sworn that I read displacement. I agree, highest stress and strain will be near the crown. But, I don't think the actual stanchion:crown interface has the most. If you think about it, the stanchion tube just below that press fit has nearly the same forces and moments applied, but without all the additional wall thickness provided by the crown. Plus the top caps themselves strengthen the cylinder in that region.

I really think the steerer itself (and its interface) has been outgrown by the length and stiffness of single crown forks like these.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

This is actually totally wrong. The force applied on each stanchion tube is not same. You have one leg with damper and one leg with spring. Initiave force applied is similar, but as soon you start travel the leg with less force, the damper side, will be different from the spring side. This results in binding and stiction, if not taken care of.

You can read about this at Avalanche web sit about how the Equal Force System works compared to an original fork design. With having similar force on each stanchion you eliminate this.

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Cartridge Kit/Dual coil conversion option.htm



CCS86 said:


> If you think about it, the stanchion tube just below that press fit has nearly the same forces and moments applied, but without all the additional wall thickness provided by the crown.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

*Supergliss 100k*

Hi Dougal , 
Looking at this table of yours 
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-oils/fork-bath-oils

My experience with Mezzer is just that Supergliss 100k perform really bad once temperature drops bellow 15C. I just want to point out here cause I know lot of people using it. I think the best is to switch from 100 k once temperatures goes bellow 20 during day.
This another table of yours looks more compliant with reality 
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-oils/fork-oil-selection-charts


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> This is actually totally wrong. The force applied on each stanchion tube is not same. You have one leg with damper and one leg with spring. Initiave force applied is similar, but as soon you start travel the leg with less force, the damper side, will be different from the spring side. This results in binding and stiction, if not taken care of.
> 
> You can read about this at Avalanche web sit about how the Equal Force System works compared to an original fork design. With having similar force on each stanchion you eliminate this.
> 
> http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Cartridge Kit/Dual coil conversion option.htm


It's not "totally wrong". I am talking about forces applied via the axle, in radial directions. These are the forces that generate the highest stress and strain on the fork. Since people were discussing high strain at the CS interface, those are the relevant forces.

You are talking about internally generated, axial forces from the spring and damper. Those imbalanced forces, act to put the assembly "out of square", and definitely contribute to extra friction.

Both exist.

I'm sort of baffled why Manitou doesn't machine larger flats for the axle caps (like the RS torque caps), to increase rigidity at that connection.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> Hi Dougal ,
> Looking at this table of yours
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/suspension-oils/fork-bath-oils
> 
> ...


Strange, I'm happy running SG down to single digits. But I provide all that information so people can make their own choices.
We've got Supergliss 68 and 32 in stock as well.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Strange, I'm happy running SG down to single digits. But I provide all that information so people can make their own choices.
> We've got Supergliss 68 and 32 in stock as well.


Happy with 5W now, Anyway temperatures dropping down pretty fast now here in EU, wanted to try this Polar, but seems very hard to get in my place. But this one is common on market and numbers shows it could be good replacement of polar, hmm?
https://www.motorex.com/fileadmin/_pim_product_sheets_/en/XPERIENCE_FS-X_SAE_0W40_EN.pdf


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

I own 2x pairs of Mezzers 1x 140mmm 1x 180mm. I re inflated both forks from scratch, filling the IRT first.
The 140s feel fantastic but the 180s top out on anything but rebound all the way out. 

Any ideas on what my issue is?


----------



## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

wake jake said:


> I own 2x pairs of Mezzers 1x 140mmm 1x 180mm. I re inflated both forks from scratch, filling the IRT first.
> The 140s feel fantastic but the 180s top out on anything but rebound all the way out.
> 
> Any ideas on what my issue is?


Sounds like the negative chamber on your 180mm fork didn't equalize with the positive. The chambers equalize when the pump is connected, though if the design is like my old Dorado the depth of the plunger can require an adjustment if it stops equalizing. Try re-attaching a pump to the main chamber and see if it resolves.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/manitou-mezzer-pro-fork
> 
> An overall thorough, accurate and fair review. And it included a cool image I had not seen before:


Man, I would love a high-res copy of that cutaway!


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

zhendo said:


> Sounds like the negative chamber on your 180mm fork didn't equalize with the positive. The chambers equalize when the pump is connected, though if the design is like my old Dorado the depth of the plunger can require an adjustment if it stops equalizing. Try re-attaching a pump to the main chamber and see if it resolves.


Agree , check this post also #2093, it is related , specially with 180mm travel when the neg chamber is in smallest ratio to positive.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

winter oil , I find this one from motorex to replace Polar or SG 32K
https://www.motorex.com/fileadmin/_pim_product_sheets_/en/XPERIENCE_FS-X_SAE_0W40_EN.pdf 
cause this one is currently available on eu market and the others seems out of stock for long . I think the numbers are fine to run in cold but I wonder about these extra aditives, if they could be any danger to the fork components.. anyone?


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Before I go ahead and order my 27.5 mezzer from starbike, can anyone who has purchased from there confirm they have the latest version of the lowers? (with the bleed ports).

Thanks!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

mine were from last year - the stock has probably changed since I bought mine in May


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Fab. All adds up by the time I've factored in a digital shock pump, hub adapters and redishing the wheel but I'm sure it'll be worth it!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mezzers with oil ports arrived at my office:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CFqWVbMnvAB/


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

torcha said:


> Agree , check this post also #2093, it is related , specially with 180mm travel when the neg chamber is in smallest ratio to positive.


Worked a treat cycling through the travel with the analogue shock pump instead of the digital pump.

A very good watch for anyone interested in the difference between forks while seeing Dave whip up a fully custom fork.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

wake jake said:


> Worked a treat cycling through the travel with the analogue shock pump instead of the digital pump.
> 
> A very good watch for anyone interested in the difference between forks while seeing Dave whip up a fully custom fork.


awesome custom fork ! I guess he would have no problem to sell it here


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

torcha said:


> awesome custom fork ! I guess he would have no problem to sell it here


Check the price of his standard Dorado RRT


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Has anyone put air bleed valves in the oil bleed ports on the fork? Seems like it would be more useful than just the blanked our screw they have there.

FYI starbike responded to me, it seems that all their orders are now stocked from the countries distributor who should have the latest stock.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Ask nicely and you might get what you want!


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> Ask nicely and you might get what you want!


Please share!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Please share!


Sorry, that was meant to be the full size image! MTBR is resizing image uploads suddenly.

Check my post again, I uploaded via 3rd party host.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> Please share!


nice one thanks ! 
Having such a nice picture here , Dougal was speaking about tunning the rebound from "2 stage to 1 stage" having it more linear , not affecting so much high speed rebound , related to this picture .. can someone say where and what to do for such modification ? thank you


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

torcha said:


> nice one thanks !
> Having such a nice picture here , Dougal was speaking about tunning the rebound from "2 stage to 1 stage" having it more linear , not affecting so much high speed rebound , related to this picture .. can someone say where and what to do for such modification ? thank you


Remove the rebound piston, polish it flat and come up with a linear shim stack that will work for you.


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Remove the rebound piston, polish it flat and come up with a linear shim stack that will work for you.


 merci!


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Looking at that cutaway kind of puts it into perspective just how little volume there is in the lowers at bottom out on the spring side. I have to wonder how much of the total spring rate is actually coming from the lowers?

The Mezzer looks like it has quite a bit more negative spring volume then the Lyrik?
If so, I have to wonder if something like the Debonair C1 seal head setup would be pretty effective in it to pick up some volume in the lowers without hurting the negative side too much?

Edit:
Just for reference, with the air pump hooked up it takes shoving my full weight into it to bottom it out. I can feel the HBO impacting it, but just putting my weight alone (~200lb) on it will not fully compress it.

Double Edit:
Also worth mentioning, I flipped the bike upside down to do this and surprisingly, it actually felt like there was something that kept it from extending back out after. There wasn't a full on stop to pulling it back up, but it felt like pulling on a syringe in thick fluid. Pull it out a decent amount and then let it go and it sucked back in. Pull it out and hold it there for a minute then it wouldn't suck back in. Kind of wonder if that oring on the damper side does in fact manage to seal up some and slow down the air transfer?


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

Yesterday I received my Mezzer Pro unfortunately I can't use it and I have so send it back...
Here is my story: last week I asked the german online shop (bike discount) if the mezzer that they sell is a recent build. They said that is the 2020 model, they even updated the product page on their online shop after I asked, now it says "1 Manitou Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost (updated version!)" this was not there when I asked them first time. So with all these info, I bought the fork which arrived yesterday and surprize, the build date is 25.06.2019. I said ok, this is not a problem, maybe they changed the lowers with the updated ones. But after inspecting the fork on every side (you know the feel when you get something new  ) I noticed a scratch on the left leg which I can feel whit my finger nail. Also if I look closely on the right leg, there is one too, but smaller and not deep (can't feel it by finger nail).
So yeah, now I have two options: returning the fork to the online shop, or send it to hayes to change the CSA.
Waiting for shop to answer my mail to see what's their option.
Hayes already replied to me with: " I'd like you to send your fork to us to 1.) replace the CSA with one that's not scratched and 2.) to ensure the bushings/casting are up to date. If they're not, chances are we will replace your entire fork."
I think that when they changed the lowers with the updated ones (if they did that), they scratched the stancions...


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

Yesterday I received my Mezzer Pro but unfortunately I can't use it...
Here is my story:
Last week I asked an german online shop (bike discount) if the mezzer that they are selling is the newer version one. The replied to me that is the 2020 model and after my email the even updated the product page which now says " 1 Manitou Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost (updated version!)". This (updated version!) was not there before.
Anyways, after getting this infos, I ordered the fork which arrived yesterday and surprise! the build date is 25.06.2019.
I said ok... maybe they changed the lowers with the updated ones so it didn't bothered me that much, but I was expecting the 2020 one with the bleeding holes.
The bigger problem that I have is that the fork stanchions are scratched.The left one has a bigger scratch, which I can feel it with my finger nail, and the right one is hard to see, but is there, almost same place.
My thinking is that when they change the lowers with the updated ones, they made the scratches.
Now I have two options: return the fork to the shop or send it to hayes so they fix it.
Hayes already replied to my email and they said : " I'd like you to send your fork to us to 1.) replace the CSA with one that's not scratched and 2.) to ensure the bushings/casting are up to date. If they're not, chances are we will replace your entire fork."
I wait for bike discount to reply to see their offerings and take a decision afterwards.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Remove the rebound piston, polish it flat and come up with a linear shim stack that will work for you.


Important Question for safety reasons

Dougal, I hope you know the answer, Hayes US does not care to anwer me or to Hayes EU

After another service I happened to mount the crown unit into the casting in the wrong direction, thus offset to the back, so that the damping is on the left side of the fork. 
The fork has been ridden this way 800 hm downhill.
Can I just correct it now and ride on or do I have to fear that the crown is damaged now and will easily brake?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Looking at that cutaway kind of puts it into perspective just how little volume there is in the lowers at bottom out on the spring side. I have to wonder how much of the total spring rate is actually coming from the lowers?
> 
> The Mezzer looks like it has quite a bit more negative spring volume then the Lyrik?
> If so, I have to wonder if something like the Debonair C1 seal head setup would be pretty effective in it to pick up some volume in the lowers without hurting the negative side too much?
> ...


It kind of sounds like some of the air passages between the schrader and negative / chambers could be impacted with grease.

Maybe take the air spring out and blow air through the filler to see if you push anything out.

I'm only 160 lbs and find it pretty easy to compress the fork with the pump attached. My fork is only at 145mm though. You could also try another pump. The amount of valve actuation is important too.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

Changing my lowers (bushing play), and I noticed about 1/5 of the rubber gasket (correct term?) at the bottom of my dampener was poking past the plastic cover...









Does anybody know if 
(1) I should bother fixing this and 
(2) if yes, what's the procedure?

I looked at the manual, wasn't clear to me (no pics of that interface) but i'm bad at wrenching.

Second - not sure if it's related, but about 15ml of discolored oil slowly dripped out of my dampener uppers.

Any advice would be appreciated!


----------



## Ski-Jerry-13 (May 15, 2020)

Currently I have a Mezzer 27.5 and was toying with the idea of converting it to 29 to get the mullet setup.

Can anyone confirm if just replacing the lower casting is all that would be needed for this swap?

Not sure if the steerer crown assembly is different between 27.5 and 29? The service guide is a bit confusing on this, as the parts list descriptions are different but the part numbers are the same. Attached pics of the discrepancy. All the other components appear to be the same for both sizes.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Looking at that cutaway kind of puts it into perspective just how little volume there is in the lowers at bottom out on the spring side. I have to wonder how much of the total spring rate is actually coming from the lowers?
> 
> The Mezzer looks like it has quite a bit more negative spring volume then the Lyrik?
> If so, I have to wonder if something like the Debonair C1 seal head setup would be pretty effective in it to pick up some volume in the lowers without hurting the negative side too much?
> ...


Lower leg volume aside the Mezzer has a quite progressive air-spring. A lot more progressive than the Mattoc. That's the reason for less of a split in the IRT settings between the two.

If you want to try less lower leg progression, just slacken and tighten the foot bolts when it's partially compressed to have fewer air molecules in there.

I'm on a F36 at the moment and it's taking a whole lot of work to make it feel even close to a Mezzer. Initial sensitivity is massively different, I'm missing the mid-stroke support (Secus helps), compression has been revalved and rebound is next.

Going from a stock F36 to a F36 with Secus I had seriously hard bottom-out. That's how much difference the lower leg volume made on that fork.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Important Question for safety reasons
> 
> Dougal, I hope you know the answer, Hayes US does not care to anwer me or to Hayes EU
> 
> ...


No issues running a crown backwards. There's nothig in these forks that can cause damage that way (unlike a conventional fork where the crown can hit the arch).

How did you like your reduced offset?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ski-Jerry-13 said:


> Currently I have a Mezzer 27.5 and was toying with the idea of converting it to 29 to get the mullet setup.
> 
> Can anyone confirm if just replacing the lower casting is all that would be needed for this swap?
> 
> ...


Two differences.
1. Lower leg casting.
2. Corresponding sticker on the back of the leg.

Everything else swaps. The 29" lowers have 7mm more offset so a 37mm 27" fork will become a 44mm 29" fork with a lowers swap. 44mm 27" fork would become a 51mm 29" fork.


----------



## Ski-Jerry-13 (May 15, 2020)

Okay awesome thanks for confirming, I think I'll manage without the correct sticker! 

And that makes sense about the offset, thanks for the input.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> No issues running a crown backwards. There's nothig in these forks that can cause damage that way (unlike a conventional fork where the crown can hit the arch).
> 
> How did you like your reduced offset?


Did not notice any great difference for general trail riding (sta64.5, reach 465mm,stem 40mm) bjt sometimes it got unstable under sudden sharp steering impacts and I crashed several times that day. Wether it was that I was very tired after night shift or that the fork flexed somehow during those events as the "V" of the crown was turned backwards. Maybe that did change the behaviour more than only offset reduction.
But anyway I willhave to wait 2 months for the next ride.... Broken arm after the forth crash


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

I have almost the same issue as you. When i bought the fork, i found a scratches on the stanchions, i cannot feel them with the nail, but it was weird. I contacted german store (StarBike), they offer me a discount, so i agreed, because i think that this scratch will not affect performance. Then i install the fork, made about 5 rides, and found new scratches, that already feels with the nail (in different place). I already contacted a StarBike, and will ship this fork back to them, so they Manitou distributor in Germany will check it up. My fork production date is April 2020 (as i remember). Fork performs brilliant, but such issues makes it useless.

See here: 
https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541.html#post14970829



fallenmojo said:


> Yesterday I received my Mezzer Pro but unfortunately I can't use it...
> Here is my story:
> Last week I asked an german online shop (bike discount) if the mezzer that they are selling is the newer version one. The replied to me that is the 2020 model and after my email the even updated the product page which now says " 1 Manitou Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost (updated version!)". This (updated version!) was not there before.
> Anyways, after getting this infos, I ordered the fork which arrived yesterday and surprise! the build date is 25.06.2019.
> ...


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

spicy said:


> Has anyone put air bleed valves in the oil bleed ports on the fork? Seems like it would be more useful than just the blanked our screw they have there.


me. some cheap china bleed ports. works also nice to ad oil toolless


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Rode 30 miles and about 9k vertical ft of desert this weekend and by the end I had given up on trying to get support out of this fork and was just trying to keep my hands from hurting. Full open on HSC and like 8 clicks out on LSC. 60/93psi @180mm/215lbs. Had about 25mm of unused travel. Also raised the bars some so it didn't feel so low up front with the lack of support.

Overall, it did feel pretty good like this. Just doesn't have the low speed support I am hoping for like I get with the Avy cartridge.

This got me looking more at what's going on with the Avy damper. Sure appears like the Avy has some highly digressive compression valving in both the basevalve (FvAT/HSB) and the mid-valve? This would kind of match the high amount of low speed support it seems to have but then super smooth on impacts?

Wonder if Avy could make my Lyrik cartridge fit in the Mezzer??? I have to disagree with anybody saying this fork is an equal to the Lyrik/Avy, for me. It's good in it's own way, but so far, I definitely can't get it to match the feel of the Avy.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

FYI my fork just arrived from Starbike (who didn't have it in stock, so ordered directly from the German distributor).

*Ordered:* Oct 2020
*Manufacture date:* 15.07.19
*Bottom our bumpers: *I think these are the old style (they aren't split), can someone confirm (sorry, don't fancy reading through thousands of messages again!)
*Bleed port holes*: nope
*Decals:* one single piece (with creases in them).
*Bushings: *couldn't feel any play

So, can someone tell me if these lowers have the improved bushings?

From what I've read here, it sounds like I should make a warranty claim to get the newer style bottom out bumpers anyway (If I hadn't read this thread, I wouldn't bother, but recall people suggesting that if the bottom out bumpers get mangled the stanchion might get mangled on bottom out?) or will I be fine with these ones?

I've got to admit, first impressions out the box weren't great with seeing creases in the decals, and other decals a bit wonky.

I just changed the travel, IRT had a blob of grease on the end of the piston but almost none around it or in the stanchion.

Also, when disconnecting the pump from the main air chamber I seem to get more air escaping that I should (or get from the IRT), any tips on this?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Rode 30 miles and about 9k vertical ft of desert this weekend and by the end I had given up on trying to get support out of this fork and was just trying to keep my hands from hurting. Full open on HSC and like 8 clicks out on LSC. 60/93psi @180mm/215lbs. Had about 25mm of unused travel. Also raised the bars some so it didn't feel so low up front with the lack of support.
> 
> Overall, it did feel pretty good like this. Just doesn't have the low speed support I am hoping for like I get with the Avy cartridge.
> 
> ...


You need less HSC. How do you feel about pulling the damper apart and taking out a shim?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

spicy said:


> FYI my fork just arrived from Starbike (who didn't have it in stock, so ordered directly from the German distributor).
> 
> *Ordered:* Oct 2020
> *Manufacture date:* 15.07.19
> ...


Why not just ride the fork and see what happens? It could be completely fine apart from some creased lower leg stickers. Much easier to do a warranty claim with an actual problem rather than what might happen from internet chatter.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spicy said:


> FYI my fork just arrived from Starbike (who didn't have it in stock, so ordered directly from the German distributor).
> 
> *Ordered:* Oct 2020
> *Manufacture date:* 15.07.19
> ...


You can't tell bushings until the fork is ridden hard. If it has the ovalised bushing seat (sounds like RS are currently having the same issue) then the bushing will ovalise to fit that after a decent amount of force has been applied.

Bumpers have changed several times and I don't know all of the changes. If they don't fall out of the lowers then they're good.

The old decals wrinkle because the lowers are constantly tapering up and down. The new decals are individual letters:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CFqWVbMnvAB/


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> You need less HSC. How do you feel about pulling the damper apart and taking out a shim?


Have you got time to take a few pics and do up a how to? This is potentially valuable info for Mezzer users. Haven't the latest forks got a lighter stack from factory?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Have you got time to take a few pics and do up a how to? This is potentially valuable info for Mezzer users. Haven't the latest forks got a lighter stack from factory?


Time is the one thing I haven't got.

But the damper tube unscrews.
There's a 6mm internal socket in the HBO cup, undo that and the base-valve comes loose.
Screw the damper tube back into the upper to wiggle the lower bladder seat off and it all comes apart.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> You need less HSC. How do you feel about pulling the damper apart and taking out a shim?


Just prime riding season right now so don't really want to open it up right now. Although, I might pull it off and swap back to the Lyrik, I've changed bars and stem recently too. Wouldn't hurt to revisit where I think I was at anyway and could did into the Mezzer then.

Am I right in thinking the Avy cartridge is more of a poppet system blended with shim stacks?

The mid valve (second picture) has a spring loaded check plate with free float being petty limited. Seems like it's going to blow off like a poppet until the check plate reaches the spring cup, then it will preform like a more conventional shim stack with free float?

I also have the FvAT/HSB (first picture) which appears to act in a similar fashion but in the basevalve side?

It's making the gears turn on trying to figure out a way to implement something similar in the Mezzer.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

springs said:


> Why not just ride the fork and see what happens? It could be completely fine apart from some creased lower leg stickers. Much easier to do a warranty claim with an actual problem rather than what might happen from internet chatter.


I'll be doing exactly this, they're on the bike and ready to go- it would just be good to predict if these ones are likely some of the dodgy ones or not so that I can sell my other fork rather than holding onto it as a backup for if the Mezzer needs to go back.

I'll hopefully be able to take them for a good beating this weekend!


----------



## torcha (May 11, 2020)

spicy said:


> FYI my fork just arrived from Starbike (who didn't have it in stock, so ordered directly from the German distributor).
> 
> Also, when disconnecting the pump from the main air chamber I seem to get more air escaping that I should (or get from the IRT), any tips on this?


About this topic there is post like 2 weeks ago.Not about IRT but main positive and neg chambers 
You can buy pump with zero leak , like synchro SP1 , works great.
Or you connect the pump all the way in , set the desired pressure , now disconnect normally or better bit more slowly in this step, you will have leak at the end but it will be only leak from neg. chamber. Now connect the pump again half turn by half turn till your pump register the pressure change, do not go further and set the same pressure as you did before(or very little more) and now disconnect superfast , you will have only half thread or so in so should be doable. Like this you may be sure you have equal pressures in pos/neg chambers. But it require certain practice. Better is good zero leak pump.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

If your pump leaks a bit, it's likely the o-ring in the swivel part or the o-ring that seals against the schrader valve. It's uually not an issue on new pumps, but with some use, I've had a couple different pumps start leaking a bit. It can help too lube the o-rings a bit. That small leak makes a big difference on small volumes (IRT and negative chambers like the Mezzer).

A lot of pumps are just rebranded versions, not sure who the original maker is though. I found a cheap $15 mechanical pump on Amazon that had a hose with a zero leak valve and was able to take that hose off and put it on my more expensive digital gauge.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

mike156 said:


> If your pump leaks a bit, it's likely the o-ring in the swivel part or the o-ring that seals against the schrader valve. It's uually not an issue on new pumps, but with some use, I've had a couple different pumps start leaking a bit. It can help too lube the o-rings a bit. That small leak makes a big difference on small volumes (IRT and negative chambers like the Mezzer).
> 
> A lot of pumps are just rebranded versions, not sure who the original maker is though. I found a cheap $15 mechanical pump on Amazon that had a hose with a zero leak valve and was able to take that hose off and put it on my more expensive digital gauge.


Thanks guys. Yep the pump is leaking a tiny bit from the swivel, but I was more referring to the air loss when disconnecting from the +/- chamber (trying to do it quickly!). e.g. I can pump it up to say 45psi, disconnect it, reconnect it and it displays 38psi.

The pump is advertised as _loss free connection_ but that doesnt seem to work (red products shockmaster pro pump- same as the Rockshox one but with a different hose)

Thanks also for the suggestion, I'll take a look into the syncros pump


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

spicy said:


> I can pump it up to say 45psi, disconnect it, reconnect it and it displays 38psi.


That's pretty typical, you always read low on reconnection because the hose and gauge need to refill before you get a reading. It should be consistent, though. Try it both slow and fast and see if there is a difference, that will help show if you are really losing air from the chamber or just from the hose and fittings.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Just prime riding season right now so don't really want to open it up right now. Although, I might pull it off and swap back to the Lyrik, I've changed bars and stem recently too. Wouldn't hurt to revisit where I think I was at anyway and could did into the Mezzer then.
> 
> Am I right in thinking the Avy cartridge is more of a poppet system blended with shim stacks?
> 
> ...


Mezzer mid-valve setup is a spring washer setup with a decent amount of stroke. Very different to the Avalanche setup you've shown. There is a little bit of room to run different mid-valve setups in the Mezzer but you need to do some custom machining.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I was thinking more on the basevalve. I haven't had it apart, just looking at the pictures so I could be missing something pretty obvious. My thought though is to use shims with a larger ID so the whole stack could float on the shaft. Then have the HSC spring sit against a washer that floated on the shaft and applied preload to the floating shim stack. Low/mid speed would still be controlled by the shims but then the whole stack could blow off at high speeds.

I could see how the mid-valve having the setup though might make for better LSC without harshness though as more fluid has to move through it.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Velodonata said:


> That's pretty typical, you always read low on reconnection because the hose and gauge need to refill before you get a reading. It should be consistent, though. Try it both slow and fast and see if there is a difference, that will help show if you are really losing air from the chamber or just from the hose and fittings.


I just swapped the hose with the one on my analogue RS pump (which has a longer threaded connector) and it's much better, seems like a much more normal amount of air escaping as I unthread it!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> I was thinking more on the basevalve. I haven't had it apart, just looking at the pictures so I could be missing something pretty obvious. My thought though is to use shims with a larger ID so the whole stack could float on the shaft. Then have the HSC spring sit against a washer that floated on the shaft and applied preload to the floating shim stack. Low/mid speed would still be controlled by the shims but then the whole stack could blow off at high speeds.
> 
> I could see how the mid-valve having the setup though might make for better LSC without harshness though as more fluid has to move through it.


I don't see that solving any problems. Preloaded basevalves IMO feel awful.

It'll take you half an hour to pull the whole damper out the top and get to the base-valve. Remove one of the doubled up shims, reassemble and rebleed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Rode 30 miles and about 9k vertical ft of desert this weekend and by the end I had given up on trying to get support out of this fork and was just trying to keep my hands from hurting. Full open on HSC and like 8 clicks out on LSC. 60/93psi @180mm/215lbs. Had about 25mm of unused travel. Also raised the bars some so it didn't feel so low up front with the lack of support.


Full open HSC and 8 clicks out LSC will not give you much low speed damping at all.

I would try it with HSC 1-2 clicks in, from open, and LSC ~2 clicks out from closed. With it set there, I would play with different main/IRT pressure combinations to get a good feel of support, with appropriate bottom out prevention.

You mentioned also changing your stem and bars, which can have a huge impact on how your hands feel. Maybe it is worth running your Lyric with the new bars to recalibrate. It would be a shame to blame the Mezzer for things your bars are doing. I really like the OneUp carbon bars. They are stiff in steering and compliant for bumps.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS, from earlier posts I was running a lot more HSC and LSC. Agreed on swapping back to the Lyrik and rebaselining. I definitely try to give parts a fair chance. Even revalving the Mezzer is fair in my mind.

I swapped to the OneUp carbon bars (35mm rise), from raceface SixC carbon bars (20mm rise). I removed two spacers from under the stem. Also went from a 32mm stem to 40mm stem. In all, went up 5mm and forward about 14mm. The OneUp and SixC bars have the same angles to them so should feel similar in general.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I don't see that solving any problems. Preloaded basevalves IMO feel awful.
> 
> It'll take you half an hour to pull the whole damper out the top and get to the base-valve. Remove one of the doubled up shims, reassemble and rebleed.


The Mezzer has a preloaded basevalve? That's what the HSC spring is doing, adding preload.

I think to make it match the Avy basevalve though, there would need to be a travel limiter with what I mentioned above, so it can only blow off so much, then at higher speeds, the shim stack comes into play.


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Have you checked that the fork can go trough all the travel without problems?
Therefore use very low pressure and fully compress it.

Im a tad heavier ~230lbs and run 74psi/104psi at 170mm. HSC closed and heavier shimstack, lsc half closed.
The original compression damping is very soft on the mezzer, even full closed.

Maybe you ride to much on the back, there not enoug weight on the handlebars or your impacts are just not heavy enough for using the complete travel. The mezzer doesnt waste its travel due to the irt system.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Symion, yeah, I don't disagree with what you are saying. If you look back to my previous posts in here, you'll see I was running MUCH firmer damping (HSC-2/LSC-1 from closed) to try and get support. While it gets decent support like that, it was beating the hell out of my hands. Over the 30 miles, I kept reducing compression damping to try and make it more compliant to avoid hand pain. In all honesty, I didn't mean to run HSC fully open, I think I grabbed it instead of the LSC adjuster at some point in the ride. The last 5 miles or so I had found a point that wasn't hurting my hands and I stopped messing with it. It was only at the end of the ride I realized HSC was full open.

The entire ride I felt like I had too much weight up front though as it kept diving and just got worse as I opened it up. With the higher travel and raised bar height though, it wasn't terrible feeling. I could deal with it as is right now, but I know what a better fork feels like so I'm trying to figure out how to make the Mezzer feel like my Lyrik. Not to beat a dead horse, but my Lyrik has an Avy cartridge tuned for my weight and riding style, a Runt to mimic the IRT, low friction seals, burnished bushings and is well maintained. It's not a standard Lyrik I'm making the comparison to, it's a $1600 beast of an air fork and the only thing that could truly beat it would probably be adding a coil setup or going dual crown on top of those parts.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> The Mezzer has a preloaded basevalve? That's what the HSC spring is doing, adding preload.
> 
> I think to make it match the Avy basevalve though, there would need to be a travel limiter with what I mentioned above, so it can only blow off so much, then at higher speeds, the shim stack comes into play.


The Mezzer basevalve is only preloaded with the higher HSC settings. I don't run those. I run a shim-stack that does what I need.

Running two different modes usually gives you an ugly transition between them.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

mike156 said:


> CCS, from earlier posts I was running a lot more HSC and LSC. Agreed on swapping back to the Lyrik and rebaselining. I definitely try to give parts a fair chance. Even revalving the Mezzer is fair in my mind.
> 
> I swapped to the OneUp carbon bars (35mm rise), from raceface SixC carbon bars (20mm rise). I removed two spacers from under the stem. Also went from a 32mm stem to 40mm stem. In all, went up 5mm and forward about 14mm. The OneUp and SixC bars have the same angles to them so should feel similar in general.


When I went from 35 mm stem to 60 my fork (not mezzer back then) immediately needed more air as i guess you are putting more weight over the wheel or smth. You only added 14 mm but may still be noticeable, as in your next post say the fork feels divey. Maybe a few psi will put you there

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Romulin, the fork felt divey before I changed the bars too. But yeah, rebaseling with there old fork is probably where I need to start.

Dougal, wouldn't softening the shim stack for HSC also make for less LSC? Because even with LSC closed completely, the fork feels too soft without closing HSC to the second click from closed.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I have been playing with compression damping lately, getting some miles in with the HSC at +2 from open and LSC around -4, with some combinations in that neighborhood. Today, I put it back to HSC wide open, LSC full closed, and I just prefer it that way. Maybe we just all have very different personal preference for feel, riding style, and terrain. With it set this way (and maybe some extra LSC damping from Supergliss 100k), it feels super plush, but still supportive. I launch this thing off big drops, dive down steep, chunky trails, rail around berms, and it feels composed, supportive, and plush.


----------



## Twilight70 (May 24, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Stock compression shims:
> 8x20x0.1, 8x17.5x0.1,*78x17.5x0.1*, 8x11x0.5mm


Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:

1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)

1, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm

*7, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm* - This can't be right...

1, 8mm x 11mm x 0.5mm - This is the HSC shim...is that 0.5 correct?

Seems like a pretty easy HSC fix if that 8 x 11 is really 0.5mm thick.

Is that single 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo, or the 7, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo?
OR
Did you mean there are 2, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1?

Lastly, when you took apart the comp stack, did you also take apart and document the rebound stack also?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Twilight70 said:


> Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:
> 
> 1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)
> 
> ...


There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.

Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.

Now my EXT shock feels like it has too much HSC lol


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Twilight70 said:


> Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:
> 
> 1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)
> 
> ...


That's a typo, I guess only one person read it close enough to realise!:thumbsup:

Stock was 2x 17.5mm shims. At some point (I don't know when) they removed 1x 17.5mm shim to cut the HSC down.

I had revalved my fork early on to give slightly more compression damping than the new setup.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Romulin, the fork felt divey before I changed the bars too. But yeah, rebaseling with there old fork is probably where I need to start.
> 
> Dougal, wouldn't softening the shim stack for HSC also make for less LSC? Because even with LSC closed completely, the fork feels too soft without closing HSC to the second click from closed.


Yes a softer HSC stack gives you less LSC range. But it also lets you run more spring-rate which was probably compromised earlier.


----------



## Twilight70 (May 24, 2019)

springs said:


> There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.
> 
> Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.


Springs, thanks for this! "Curved?" Do you mean it has a dish? If so, is the dish to help w/ that preloading lipped washer/spring seat or to fight against what that preloading lip is doing to that 20mm shim?

Maybe just a bit of deets on you...your riding style and the bike you have it on? What's your wheels-down weight? Was your first ride on smooth or chunk, flat or steep, up and down or just shuttled, or a combo of all so you can gauge the effort you made on your fork? How old are you and do/did you used to race...basically, what's your skill level...so I'd have a clue how hard you can push a fork.

Thanks again!


----------



## Twilight70 (May 24, 2019)

Dougal said:


> That's a typo, I guess only one person read it close enough to realise!:thumbsup:
> 
> Stock was 2x 17.5mm shims. At some point (I don't know when) they removed 1x 17.5mm shim to cut the HSC down.


Hey Dougal! Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it was the enginerd OCD in me doing the reading 

So...what did you mean by "they removed...?" Do you mean the base tune coming from Manitou is now only 1, 20x0.1 and 1, 17.5x0.1 instead of 2, 17.5s that you posted from Jan or Feb? Is this found on MY21 forks, or just later builds of MY20 forks? I'm seeing they (Manitou) now has 29er/44mmOS back in stock...have you taken one of these since the restocking apart yet?

Thanks again.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Twilight70 said:


> Hey Dougal! Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it was the enginerd OCD in me doing the reading
> 
> So...what did you mean by "they removed...?" Do you mean the base tune coming from Manitou is now only 1, 20x0.1 and 1, 17.5x0.1 instead of 2, 17.5s that you posted from Jan or Feb? Is this found on MY21 forks, or just later builds of MY20 forks? I'm seeing they (Manitou) now has 29er/44mmOS back in stock...have you taken one of these since the restocking apart yet?
> 
> Thanks again.


Yes that's exactly the change, but I don't know when they did it. I can't help with serial number or date change.

I've had some 29" 44OS through. But I tend to not pull new forks apart that far. We'll pull a new one of those into our demo fleet shortly (just clearing out last seasons). I might get a chance then.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

If you've ever gotten your IRT cap a little too tight...


----------



## Twilight70 (May 24, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Yes that's exactly the change, but I don't know when they did it. I can't help with serial number or date change.
> 
> I've had some 29" 44OS through. But I tend to not pull new forks apart that far. We'll pull a new one of those into our demo fleet shortly (just clearing out last seasons). I might get a chance then.


Thanks for the clarification on the change. So by that then, the MY21 forks should be damn near perfect if they've addressed the bushing slop issue. Sound like I'll prob have pull the trigger and bought one before you've had the chance to pull one apart.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

springs said:


> There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.
> 
> Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.
> 
> Now my EXT shock feels like it has too much HSC lol


Decided to take a crack removing extra hsc shim since I think it may help solve my harshness issue, and I have a spare busted damper to experiment on.

When the assembly came out of the damper it fell apart a bit unexpectedly, so I just want to make sure I have this assembled correctly. 








Also, any tips on how to get the bladder seated back into the base?

Thanks again everyone! This thread is amazing.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Anyone like to have a crack at explaining what they think removing one of these curved shims out the stack would achieve?

Next question would be what would it achieve if one was removed and the curved shim was flipped so that the shim above was effectively folding over it?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.

CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.

Elsinore, that order doesn't look right. My post #2019 above has the complete basevalve disassembled. The shim layout is on the bottom. I didn't take that picture, but it looks like what I'd expect.

Dougal, going back here. What I was suggesting before actually wouldn't be a preloaded basevalve at all anyway. It wouldn't be preloading the shims. It would be controlling the shim clamping load. The shims would flex initially like completely non-preloaded shims. Once your differential pressure overcame the spring force though, the clamp shim would move and allow the entire shim stack to move away from the face of the valve. This should make for substantially more flow area. I could see how this might cause some flutter though. But the simple fact remains, the Avy cartridge seems to work in a similar manner and it kicks the crap out of this damper. It does it on the mid-valve and the basevalve though and it also has some additional features that would impact the behavior.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Anyone like to have a crack at explaining what they think removing one of these curved shims out the stack would achieve?
> 
> Next question would be what would it achieve if one was removed and the curved shim was flipped so that the shim above was effectively folding over it?
> 
> View attachment 1370369


Removing one will likely give you soft and inconsistent closing. Too soft closing can mean it slams shut on change of direction and creates a knock.

I do arrange them so the check shim can fold over.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.
> 
> CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.
> 
> ...


Okay that makes sense. That gives you a softer knee effect than a poppet or edge pre-loaded shim. You'd need to run a firmer stack and modify the whole compression assembly to acheive that.

Avalanche need to use a firmer mid-valve because open bath runs in an oil foam that is slightly compressible. The base-valves in that situation can't deliver expected damping force from small displacements in that foam but a mid-valve can. In a cartridge damper you've got solid oil so the base-valve can do what it should.

My opinion is that once you have the right amount of HSC compression damping, you can run the right spring-rate and you don't need as much LSC as you think you need when battling a base-tune mis-match.

The amount of damping in the first year Mezzer was about 20% more than I wanted and I compromised spring-rate to get the response I needed. With a revalve it does exactly what it should.
I'm now a bit firmer on compression than the 1-less-shim tune.

I ride on choppy terrain where any knee formed damper curve feels awful.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Just received my Mezzer and really stoked to get this thing setup. 

I tipped the lower slightly and dumped a bit of oil during a travel height adjustment. I figured I should just replace the oil in the lowers at this point.

I do have Supergliss 100K (thanks Dougal!) available now or I can get the Motorex 5W40 locally. California winter upcoming, will be riding in ~5-23C for a few months.

What is the recommended oil? 

If I do switch over should I just top off with 20cc or thoroughly clean out then refill?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> Just received my Mezzer and really stoked to get this thing setup.
> 
> I tipped the lower slightly and dumped a bit of oil during a travel height adjustment. I figured I should just replace the oil in the lowers at this point.
> 
> ...


Unless you lost all the oil, just run it. Change it after a few weeks break-in.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Dougal said:


> Unless you lost all the oil, just run it. Change it after a few weeks break-in.


Dang, that makes a lot of sense. I would say it pissed out a good 10cc, Unfortunately I grabbed the oil pan and let them drain out.

Get the 5w40, then switch over to SG100k after break in?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> Dang, that makes a lot of sense. I would say it pissed out a good 10cc, Unfortunately I grabbed the oil pan and let them drain out.
> 
> Get the 5w40, then switch over to SG100k after break in?


Yeah. :thumbsup:


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

Finally-- I got replacement Mezzer (#2) for defective #1-- I was told by the retailer that #1 had the latest castings -- and it did have a green handwritten"B" on the label-- which I found out doesn't mean much. months Rode #1 at 180mm at assorted pressures some at recommended spec but mostly 10 -15psi less . with fully opened lsc/hsc /rebound -- did this for 2 months hoping the fork would eventually break in.-- all the time the fork basically sucked.
Took it apart and found out that there was a ton of stiction/friction between the air piston ring and the inside of the stanchion. Sent the fork to Manitou and it turns out I had the older defective casting after all. Because of this the air spring piston was scratching the inside of the stanchion. Waited about 6 week and #2 arrived yesterday--it was manufactured Aug 2020. 
I put in on and it was magic from the get go!
plush! plush! and that is even without playing any pressures. hsc/lsc--granted my ride was wasn't for very long-- but the fork already felt leagues better than the defective fork.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Glad they got you sorted!


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

locominute said:


> Took it apart and found out that there was a ton of stiction/friction between the air piston ring and the inside of the stanchion. Sent the fork to Manitou and it turns out I had the older defective casting after all. Because of this the air spring piston was scratching the inside of the stanchion.


Mind telling me more about this?

I thought the defective castings were the lowers, but you're talking about the upper CSU.

I did a travel change when my fork was new and seem to have been struggling with air spring friction. I pulled it apart to schlube 'n lube everything and noticed the grease around the air piston had black crap in it (it was clean Slickoeum when I put it back together).

Last week, during initial compression (after the bike would sit overnight), there would be a dang squeak/squeal that sounded like dry rubber running across glass or smooth metal. It would loosen up, but the fork would feel like crap until you got it cycling.

I just pulled the fork apart (again) and lubed the snot out of everything on the air side. IRT shaft & seal, air piston seal, air piston shaft, air piston seal head, etc.

I even went as far as putting some oil in the IRT, like DSD recommends with their RUNT.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

06HokieMTB said:


> Last week, during initial compression (after the bike would sit overnight), there would be a dang squeak/squeal that sounded like dry rubber running across glass or smooth metal. It would loosen up, but the fork would feel like crap until you got it cycling.


To clarify this... I did a road trip to St George/Hurricane and Moab. The dang air spring friction seemed to get really notchy with the bike sitting over night. Each morning I started connecting my air pump to the main (lower) air valve and cycling the fork a few times, using my chest to push down on the handlebars. That seemed to get everything loosened up and moving again and was enough to get me through the trip.

I lubed the snot out of the fork yesterday and am riding Angel Fire bike park tomorrow - guess we'll see if I fixed it.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

06HokieMTB said:


> Mind telling me more about this?
> 
> I thought the defective castings were the lowers, but you're talking about the upper CSU.
> 
> ...


The way Manitou explained it to me is that
when the lower casting bushings are not properly manufactured it screws up the the alignment inside the stanchions which causes the air spring to be wonky and then scratch the inside of the stanchion
when I took off the lowers there was still oil and lube
BUt I added some more oil and I also put in a ton of slick oleum and still the IRT and the air spring were still sticky inside the stanchion.

This I would find somewhat odd since I would imagine that the IRT would not be affected as much versus lower down from the crown.

luckily, Mezzer #2 is wonderful from the second I hopped on
I toyed with the idea of selling Mezzer #2-- so glad I did not.

btw
what is the manufacturing date of your fork?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I used to notice a little bit of "judder" on a cold fork. After compressing it maybe 10 times it always smoothed out, so it was never a concern on the trail. 

I recently put maybe 10 drops of Supergliss 100k on top of the air piston and on top of the IRT piston (plenty of Slickoleum already in there, and the judder is gone.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

locominute said:


> btw
> what is the manufacturing date of your fork?


Is that on the fork? Or only on the box?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Removing one will likely give you soft and inconsistent closing. Too soft closing can mean it slams shut on change of direction and creates a knock.
> 
> I do arrange them so the check shim can fold over.


I removed one of the springs and the difference has been much greater than I was expecting. The stickiness that some have been commenting on, whether it be the quad seal or whatever has almost gone. It feels like the friction has reduced and the fork is now considerably more active over repeated hits which has helped me with hand/arm pain on longer runs.

The damper was bled correctly prior to the change and I'm using the same 5w Motorex oil so there is no change there, just the removal of one spring holding that check shim. I didn't touch the air side so no new lube/service feeling. I kept pressure the same 92 IRT 52 main, the HSC is 3 from closed, LSC 4 from closed and rebound is 4 from closed. I did have the rebound 7 out from closed but my rear shock (EXT Storia) seems to run slower rebound so I slowed the front to match and it seems to now quite balanced. If anything the Storia now feels like it has too much HSC as it feels a little abrupt on square edge stuff when the bike is around the sag point or higher in its travel but that's another story.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

locominute said:


> The way Manitou explained it to me is that
> when the lower casting bushings are not properly manufactured it screws up the the alignment inside the stanchions which causes the air spring to be wonky and then scratch the inside of the stanchion
> when I took off the lowers there was still oil and lube
> BUt I added some more oil and I also put in a ton of slick oleum and still the IRT and the air spring were still sticky inside the stanchion.
> ...


I can see where if the lower bushing was so screwed up as to be effectively out of alignment that the lower leg would no longer be lined up with the stanchion, and the bottom of the lower where the spring shaft mounts would be affected the most, putting the shaft under a constant side load, which would also affect the air piston. Yup, that would suck and it would rapidly degrade the air spring.

The IRT is entirely independent from all of that though, it sits up top all by itself, it just needs to be properly lubed to start with, which is not how all of them were coming out of the box. Glad to hear they got you a good one and it is working as intended.


----------



## locominute (May 29, 2006)

06HokieMTB said:


> Is that on the fork? Or only on the box?


box


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

CCS86 said:


> I recently put maybe 10 drops of Supergliss 100k on top of the air piston and on top of the IRT piston (plenty of Slickoleum already in there, and the judder is gone.


Are there any downsides of doing this?
(I don't consider «a few drops» migrating down into the neg chamber a real issue..)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

langen said:


> Are there any downsides of doing this?
> (I don't consider «a few drops» migrating down into the neg chamber a real issue..)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Downside is the oil can wash out the grease as it thins out and can migrate to the lower negative chamber. But if you have a feel for when your fork needs maintenance and don't ride it for a year without air spring maintenance you'll be fine.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.

I did this with my Runt, mixing dynamic seal grease and Plush 10W oil. It noticably made the Runt operate smoother. I do the same in the Lyrik air-spring and when I service it, all the grease and oil stays in the positive side, despite there being the equalization dimple. Did the same in the Mezzer as well and haven't had any issue with it coming out the air valve when messing with air pressure.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.


Yup, I think you nailed it there. Even very thin grease, like Slickoleum, forms a ring above the air spring piston, with the stanchion left wiped nearly clean by the seal.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Yup, I think you nailed it there. Even very thin grease, like Slickoleum, forms a ring above the air spring piston, with the stanchion left wiped nearly clean by the seal.


The bulk gets wiped, but it leaves a working film. It's keeping that film replenished which is the challenge for all lubrication.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Could anyone tell me the volumes of negative, positive and IRT chamber? Any stroke. Just want to model airspring curve for compare.


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

@dougal how long are you recommending service intervals?

I need to round up oils, grease, and damper bleed tools. Its got about 700 miles on it now. I was going to try and do a complete service on it before our trip mid next month. 

What do you recommend for it

Motorex Supergliss 100k in the legs, 

Motorex Fork oil 2.5w for the damper ? Or your Green oil I am a 220lb rider.

Looks like the SuperGliss 100k is not readily available in the US from what I am seeing. 

Then I just need some Slickoleum ...

Thanks!


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So a while ago I had a CSU creak, which manitou took care of quick fast and in a hurry. No issues since. I’m hoping they did a service while it was there and at least replaced the oil.

But if they didn’t, what syringe are y’all using to put oil into the fill ports on the back?

Also I noticed today I have a tiny bit of oil on/around the rebound knob. Not enough to really see but just enough to feeel a little oily and catch some dirt. Is that normal?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

TXrocks said:


> @dougal how long are you recommending service intervals?
> 
> I need to round up oils, grease, and damper bleed tools. Its got about 700 miles on it now. I was going to try and do a complete service on it before our trip mid next month.
> 
> ...


I just bought 250 mL from Dougal - $35 shipped to PA, USA. That said, I have no idea when it will arrive, but I'm not in a rush (probably won't put it into the fork until spring).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Alright, this fork is going to kill me. Lol

It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks) that weren't an issue on my last setup...

Strangely though, it's just enough to make things sketchy but not toss me on my head. It will hang up, toss me forward and then about the time I expect it to be all over and for it to dive hard and finish the job, it some how pops up over the object. It's like there is enough support deeper in the travel, but from SAG to like 100mm of travel, it's too soft.

I'm not using the last 40mm of travel unless I hit something really hard, and even then it never uses the last 25mm. But at the same time, it just feels soft... Everywhere. Except for of course the high amount of harshness over braking bumps.

Is the wheel not able to get out of the way quick enough? Or is it not firm enough initially to push me up over the object?

I had zero issue getting my last fork setup but man, I can't get this thing to work. I want it to though. I really do.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

mike156 said:


> FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.
> 
> I did this with my Runt, mixing dynamic seal grease and Plush 10W oil. It noticably made the Runt operate smoother. I do the same in the Lyrik air-spring and when I service it, all the grease and oil stays in the positive side, despite there being the equalization dimple. Did the same in the Mezzer as well and haven't had any issue with it coming out the air valve when messing with air pressure.


So you have to use the SRAM dynamic seal grease instead of Slick Honey?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just on the air piston and IRT. Slickolium and oil in the lowers.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Alright, this fork is going to kill me. Lol
> 
> It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks) that weren't an issue on my last setup...
> 
> ...


What pressures are you running?

Have you done anything with rebound or just removed the shim on compression?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

61/95 on air

Haven't touched the damper yet internally, if that's what you mean? I'm swapping back to the Lyrik after today's ride so I can rebaseline. Maybe something else is throwing things off, so I want to eliminate other variables. It's pretty consistently felt like what I described above though since my first ride on it when the only thing that changed was the fork.

I've got a 37.07mm burnishing die being made that I was going to use and then if there is a shim stack change that makes sense, I'd do that too.

Up for suggestions, but I'm at a loss as in general, it feels too soft and unsupportive. But doesn't use much travel and it's harsh at speed.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

How much do you weigh? Those are odd issues. 

I’m at 183 pounds and run much lower pressures than you but haven’t felt anything that you’re scribing. I run about 48 main 60 irt to make it feel a little more progressive. What is your LSC, HSC, and rebound setting at?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I would definitely pull the air spring and damper to check chassis fit before burnishing. I haven't heard a single report of tight bushings in a Mezzer. If anything they run on the loose side.

When you say "It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks)." Can you explain what you mean? I'm having a hard time picturing how the fork can get "hung up" on an object by being too compliant. You are moving forward. In order for the wheel to get over the obstacle, it has to move up. The more resistance to this, from the spring and damper, the more you and the bike chassis lose forward momentum, and get directed upwards. 

When you disconnect your pump, the front wheel is off the ground and pulled to top of stroke? With the pump connected can you easily push the fork to full bottom out?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> 61/95 on air
> 
> Haven't touched the damper yet internally, if that's what you mean? I'm swapping back to the Lyrik after today's ride so I can rebaseline. Maybe something else is throwing things off, so I want to eliminate other variables. It's pretty consistently felt like what I described above though since my first ride on it when the only thing that changed was the fork.
> 
> ...


Drop a shim in the damper (gives you my2021 tune), reduce irt to 90 psi and I think you'll be sorted.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> I would definitely pull the air spring and damper to check chassis fit before burnishing. I haven't heard a single report of tight bushings in a Mezzer. If anything they run on the loose side.


I've been wondering if you can feel how tight the bushings are with the wipers still in?



CCS86 said:


> When you say "It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks)." Can you explain what you mean? I'm having a hard time picturing how the fork can get "hung up" on an object by being too compliant. You are moving forward. In order for the wheel to get over the obstacle, it has to move up. The more resistance to this, from the spring and damper, the more you and the bike chassis lose forward momentum, and get directed upwards.


I'm not saying it is for sure too compliant causing it. Just that it's soft feeling in general.

What it feels like is the tire stops briefly, your momentum compresses the fork and your weight keeps moving forward. About the time I think I'm heading over the bars, the tire starts going again as it rolls over the object. Usually when this has happened, it's been at lower speeds in a rock garden. Today though, it was while I was grabbing a hand full of brakes at high speed through some rocks before a tight switch back. Came off the pedals right when I hit the rocks and rode 5-10' with all my weight on the bars and probably the back tire off the ground after it rolled over the rock. Not sure how I stayed on the bike. Lol I feel like the fork saved my ass... But caused the issue in the first place.



CCS86 said:


> When you disconnect your pump, the front wheel is off the ground and pulled to top of stroke? With the pump connected can you easily push the fork to full bottom out?


Yes, fork fully extended when removing pump.
Nope. If I put about 80% of my weight on it, I can get it to fully compress. But not easily. I open the vent valves though and yes it easily compresses.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I've been wondering if you can feel how tight the bushings are with the wipers still in?


You might be able to feel if the bushings are really bad, but I think the wipers have enough influence to skew the result. I certainly wouldn't burnish my bushings without a wiper free test.

Technically, you shouldn't remove and reinstall wipers. I designed a 3D printed removal tool (and a driver) let has let me pop them out without any damage. I could sell you a set for pretty cheap if you wanted.



mike156 said:


> I'm not saying it is for sure too compliant causing it. Just that it's soft feeling in general.
> 
> What it feels like is the tire stops briefly, your momentum compresses the fork and your weight keeps moving forward. About the time I think I'm heading over the bars, the tire starts going again as it rolls over the object. Usually when this has happened, it's been at lower speeds in a rock garden. Today though, it was while I was grabbing a hand full of brakes at high speed through some rocks before a tight switch back. Came off the pedals right when I hit the rocks and rode 5-10' with all my weight on the bars and probably the back tire off the ground after it rolled over the rock. Not sure how I stayed on the bike. Lol I feel like the fork saved my ass... But caused the issue in the first place.
> 
> ...


Something sounds wrong there. Have you tried opening the bleed screws, or cracking the foot nuts loose? It sounds like your airshaft valves are partially clogged and/or pressure has built up in the lowers. I can try to check how much actual force it takes me, but with the pump connected, I can compress the fork fully with much less than my full 156 lbs.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm running it at 180mm? If you are running less travel, you'll have a lower compression ratio? It easily compresses until about the last two inches, then it quickly ramps up. I've had the lowers off to do a service and everything looked good. Like I mentioned, if I take the vent caps off then with the pump connected it easily compresses to the bump stops. It's the air build up in the lowers that's causing the high force, without a doubt.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I'm running it at 180mm? If you are running less travel, you'll have a lower compression ratio? It easily compresses until about the last two inches, then it quickly ramps up. I've had the lowers off to do a service and everything looked good. Like I mentioned, if I take the vent caps off then with the pump connected it easily compresses to the bump stops. It's the air build up in the lowers that's causing the high force, without a doubt.


I'm running at 145mm, so I definitely have lower CR in the lowers. I just wouldn't expect it to have such a dramatic effect.

What is your static sag on the fork?

It sounds like most of your complaints would be addressed by more main pressure and less IRT, assuming everything else is in good working order. I would go [+2psi main / -2psi IRT] increments and see how it feels.


----------



## fireflywa (Aug 27, 2020)

Alright, another setup help post =\. Rode the Mezzer for the first time yesterday. Comparing to a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate. I rode a trail I'm very familiar with.

Used 20mm less travel with the Mezzer. Overall it felt better and eliminated arm pump that I was experience with the Lyrik. However, it's feeling soft off the top, with a rapid ramp up to short mid stroke and real firm bottom. It doesn't feel right yet, definitely feels too progressive. I setup the air based on the calculator linked earlier in this thread. Everything else set in the middle just because I had no idea what to try out for baseline.

Primary terrain is PNW steep techy chunk with drops to flat and some jumps. I need enough pop to handle the drops & jumps, while maintaining enough compliance to not fly off the ridiculous amount of roots and rocks. It'd be nice to have a setup for flow as well, every once in a while some fast flowly relaxation is a nice break.

For reference, I'm a low-intermediate rider so my form and balance is likely trash most of the time.

5'10", 184#, about 190 - 193# kitted
2020 Specialized Enduro S3...long and slack
170mm 29" 44 OS
50/83
HSC 2
LSC 5
R 5
20% static sag

Lyrik setup for reference. Settings are from *open*:
85 psi
HSC 0
LSC 2-3
R 4
1 volume spacer
15% static sag


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

fireflywa said:


> Alright, another setup help post =\.
> 
> Used 20mm less travel with the Mezzer. Overall it felt better and eliminated arm pump that I was experience with the Lyrik. However, it's feeling soft off the top, with a rapid ramp up to short mid stroke and real firm bottom. It doesn't feel right yet, definitely feels too progressive. I setup the air based on the calculator linked earlier in this thread. Everything else set in the middle just because I had no idea what to try out for baseline.
> 
> ...


The beauty of the IRT system, is that you can tune the main air for off the top and mid-stroke feel, and dial in bottom out protection with IRT pressure. Especially with the hydraulic bottom out, you can run less progressivity.

I would try 52 / 80 and see how that feels.

If you need more support, bump the main in 1-2psi increments, and keep dropping IRT until you just bottom out on your biggest drop. Do yourself a favor, and make a true bottom-out mark on a stanchion with a small piece of tape: clean the stanchion with some alcohol, near the crown. Connect your shock pump to the main chamber and leave it connected. Bounce the fork off the bottom a couple times. Then, put your tape just flush with the top of the o-ring. Being able to accurately see travel available/used is key to dialing IRT pressure in.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

CCS86 said:


> The beauty of the IRT system, is that you can tune the main air for off the top and mid-stroke feel, and dial in bottom out protection with IRT pressure. Especially with the hydraulic bottom out, you can run less progressivity.
> 
> I would try 52 / 80 and see how that feels.
> 
> If you need more support, bump the main in 1-2psi increments, and keep dropping IRT until you just bottom out on your biggest drop. Do yourself a favor, and make a true bottom-out mark on a stanchion with a small piece of tape: clean the stanchion with some alcohol, near the crown. Connect your shock pump to the main chamber and leave it connected. Bounce the fork off the bottom a couple times. Then, put your tape just flush with the top of the o-ring. Being able to accurately see travel available/used is key to dialing IRT pressure in.


I am no tuning genius but wouldn't you start with backing off the compression slightly then play with the psi +/- ?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I personally run pretty close to wire open on HSC and full closed on LSC.

People have different personal preference on that, and if he is running +2 from open on HSC, that's not going to keep him from using travel.

If it feels too progressive, it probably is.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I can’t find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere

Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

fireflywa said:


> For reference, I'm a low-intermediate rider so my form and balance is likely trash most of the time.
> 
> 5'10", 184#, about 190 - 193# kitted
> 2020 Specialized Enduro S3...long and slack
> ...


Is that 20% in the attack position or just sitting on the saddle.

I would drop the main and the IRT by a couple of PSI and go from there.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

megablue said:


> Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I can't find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere
> 
> Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.


I get my syringes for free from the local pharmacy.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Feed stores like Tractor Supply and the like are good sources for veterinary syringes which come in a variety of sizes and types for pretty cheap


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

POAH said:


> Is that 20% in the attack position or just sitting on the saddle.
> 
> I would drop the main and the IRT by a couple of PSI and go from there.


He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.

Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

megablue said:


> Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I can't find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere
> 
> Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.


The fill ports on the lowers are an M5 - according to Dougal a Shimano bleed kit or a reverb bleed kit will thread right on!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

aerius said:


> He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.
> 
> Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.


Is it too soft though or is he just used to a lyrik that is 90% reliant on the air spring?

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

aerius said:


> He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.
> 
> Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.


not convinced his fork is too soft with those settings, travel and his skill level. If he was running a lyric at 15% sag in the attack position then he is going to be used to a very stiff air spring.


----------



## fireflywa (Aug 27, 2020)

POAH said:


> not convinced his fork is too soft with those settings, travel and his skill level. If he was running a lyric at 15% sag in the attack position then he is going to be used to a very stiff air spring.


Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).

The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.

I'm not sure how soft it's supposed to feel off the top. Right now it's considerably softer than the Lyrik until about halfway down the travel, then it ramps up hard. I like the idea of a little more main and a little less IRT, but I also like how well it soaked up trail chatter. Felt like it was floating over fast sections while still super planted. A noticeable difference was no arm pump at all whereas with the Lyrik I'd have to take breaks for my arms to recover.

Maybe something like more main, less IRT, HSC one more click open, close LSC a click, and open rebound a click? I probably have some of that backwards...the Lyrik only has a couple usable clicks of each setting so it's a bit different having adjustments that actually do something.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I think you should try that next time out.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm only running my Mezzer's HSC 1-click from open (I believe that is 3 clicks "out" from closed)

I've found I prefer the support to come from the air spring and not the damper, so I run very little LSC/HSc


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

fireflywa said:


> Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).
> 
> The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.
> 
> ...


Use Lsc, but only max 1 click hsc from open and handle the rest with the pressures.
Main for initial suppleness until ride height and feel match your preference and the IRT for support and bottom out.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm a bit lighter than you but run the same travel (27.5) but guessing I ride more difficult trails. Transition patrol mk1.

my settings are 50/75 and both HSC/LSC 2 from close (turn the dials fully closed then turn them back 2 clicks). Rebound is to suit. I run my front tyre around 23psi (wild enduro + huck norris)



fireflywa said:


> Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).
> 
> The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.


----------



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

panzer103 said:


> So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?


It can be, with or without using more spacers. But you are getting into the weeds on it's intended usage and tuning may get wonky.


----------



## R.T.R. (Sep 20, 2005)

panzer103 said:


> So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?


Mechanically you can reduce it as short as you want.

Excellent results with one of my Mezzer's set at 130 on my Ibis Ripley V4.

The Mezzer's so simple to work on that if you've the travel reduction spacers give it a go.

You can also give it a try without disassembling just by connecting your pump to the positive air then compressing the fork to 120.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I started making a solid model of the Mezzer internals.
This is a March 2020 build of a 27.5 Mezzer Pro set to 180mm of travel.
Some parts I had to estimate slightly as it would require dissassembling things that I don't want to take apart. The limits to the error are very small though, like +/- 0.5cc MAX.

Here are the volume equations I came up with. Anybody able to compare to their own numbers?

Negative Spring Volume Equation
Y[cc] = 0.8081438*X[mm] + 46.93218

Positive Spring Volume Equation
Y[cc] = -0.8552981*X[mm] + 173.3587

IRT Volume Equation
Y[mm] = -0.7767529*X[mm] + 61.30490

IRT Positive Spring Volume Adder
Y[mm] = 0.7767637*X[mm]

Travel Spacers are 2.782cc per spacer (2 required per 10mm)

Maximum Travel being 180mm on the main airspring and 67mm on the IRT. The IRT Positive Spring Volume adder is the volume that gets added to the positive chamber as the IRT compresses (use IRT position, not main spring position).

These equations should be pretty useful for coming up with a spring calculator. I'll get there, but I want to include the lower leg volumes as well. I think I'm just going to measure it directly instead of trying to model it though.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> I started making a solid model of the Mezzer internals.
> This is a March 2020 build of a 27.5 Mezzer Pro set to 180mm of travel.
> Some parts I had to estimate slightly as it would require dissassembling things that I don't want to take apart. The limits to the error are very small though, like +/- 0.5cc MAX.
> 
> ...


I've got about 5cc more negative and IRT volume. Positive is pretty close. Whole thing is modelled up.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

What do you have for shaft ID?

I didn't take apart the shafts so it was a guess at 7mm. Would definitely have the biggest impact on volume.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Actually, just did a quick sanity check on the IRT and if you negated the shaft material volume all together and ignore the material in the cap where the threads are, it comes up to 65.4cc.

Wonder if something changed because there is no way I'm 5cc low on volume for the IRT. 7mm vs 8mm shaft ID is like 0.8CC so it's not that.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Actually, just did a quick sanity check on the IRT and if you negated the shaft material volume all together and ignore the material in the cap where the threads are, it comes up to 65.4cc.
> 
> Wonder if something changed because there is no way I'm 5cc low on volume for the IRT. 7mm vs 8mm shaft ID is like 0.8CC so it's not that.


The IRT shaft is hollow other than the end of the bolt at the bottom and the little bit of the valve stem. It's part of the volume.

Negative spring should also include shaft volume minus however much volume the internal connector rod takes up.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yep, I accounted for hollow shafts and made a reasonable estimate on the valve piece that's inside of the main shaft. See the attachments. Sorry for the quality, I have the model on my laptop that I don't connect to the internet, I'll grab some high res images at some point.

That's what I'm saying, even if the shaft didn't exist at all and you got rid of the threaded section of the IRT cap, I'm still not 5CC low on the IRT. I have to wonder if maybe something changed on the IRT from what Dougal measured.

The place where I'm unsure is the shaft looks like about 1.5mm wall thickness, so 7mm ID. If I'm wrong and it's 8mm ID, the difference is only 0.8CC larger volume. More likely though, is an 8mm bolt and the minor thread diameter puts it at ~6.5mm inside diameter.

Edit: the other unknown on the negative spring side would be the hard plastic stop at the seal head. I have it as solid plastic. I could see this being hollow inside? Probably a couple CCs in there I'm missing.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Outside of the solid model, I did notice on the damper side oil and grease has been spraying up the stanchion through the damper ring. Also looked like a small amount has come out of the damper bleed port, just enough to leave a residue path down the side of the stanchion.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Yep, I accounted for hollow shafts and made a reasonable estimate on the valve piece that's inside of the main shaft. See the attachments. Sorry for the quality, I have the model on my laptop that I don't connect to the internet, I'll grab some high res images at some point.
> 
> That's what I'm saying, even if the shaft didn't exist at all and you got rid of the threaded section of the IRT cap, I'm still not 5CC low on the IRT. I have to wonder if maybe something changed on the IRT from what Dougal measured.
> 
> The place where I'm unsure is the shaft looks like about 1.5mm wall thickness, so 7mm ID. If I'm wrong and it's 8mm ID, the difference is only 0.8CC larger volume. More likely though, is an 8mm bolt and the minor thread diameter puts it at ~6.5mm inside diameter.


Cool, yeah sorry I misunderstood what you were saying about the shaft. That is a significant difference, it would seem that the shaft length would have to be different to account for so much? Compared to that cutaway drawing Manitou put out, if anything I would have thought you would be very close or a shade over, not several percent under. But we don't know if it is spot on to production forks, and something else may have changed. Nice work.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Outside of the solid model, I did notice on the damper side oil and grease has been spraying up the stanchion through the damper ring.


That's something I still wonder about, the gap is so narrow it seems like under any quick deep compression there would be something of a jet of air and whatever went along with it occurring. Which should be limited to bath oil. And even a variable spring rate effect from the restriction and compression speed. But the real question is does it make a meaningful difference in anything? And does opening up the gap as some of us have done have any other effect than making drainback easier?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, my concern is that under compression, it's going to blow air past the o-ring, but under extension, your are going to create a lower pressure in the lower and grease/oil is going to help seal that o-ring up. If anything, I think this might impact rebound more than compression.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, my concern is that under compression, it's going to blow air past the o-ring, but under extension, your are going to create a lower pressure in the lower and grease/oil is going to help seal that o-ring up. If anything, I think this might impact rebound more than compression.


Yeah with the difference in volume between the damper side lower leg and the inside of the stanchion at bottom out, it seems possible it could briefly go negative pressure in the lower if the restriction were significantly gummed up or acting as a check valve. So further justification for opening up the slots in the cap? Or still not enough of an effect to notice?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Pretty likely I'll modify it but I still need to model it up as looking closer might still make it apparent it's a non-issue.

37.07mm burnishing die showed up today too.

For now, I put the Lyrik back on so I can dig in further on the Mezzer without having the bike down. Although it snowed yesterday anyway so getting a fair test on any of this might be hard.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Pretty likely I'll modify it but I still need to model it up as looking closer might still make it apparent it's a non-issue.
> 
> 37.07mm burnishing die showed up today too.


Cool, very interested to hear how the Mezzer takes to the burnishing treatment.


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

Got my first rides on the Mezzer this weekend after 18 months of trying to make a Fox 34 SC feel right. Blown away at the difference so far. One click makes a difference. Adding damping does not make it feel like dog sh!+. Supportive without harshness (even with my toddler riding along on Macride for a bit). Can't wait to get it dialed. Wish I would have made the swap sooner.

Quick question...without reading all the comments and deciphering all the million types of oils you guys use, what oil(s) (available in US) do I need for basic service. Will be traveling next year and need to bring essentials along.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GatorXman said:


> Got my first rides on the Mezzer this weekend after 18 months of trying to make a Fox 34 SC feel right. Blown away at the difference so far. One click makes a difference. Adding damping does not make it feel like dog sh!+. Supportive without harshness (even with my toddler riding along on Macride for a bit). Can't wait to get it dialed. Wish I would have made the swap sooner.
> 
> Quick question...without reading all the comments and deciphering all the million types of oils you guys use, what oil(s) (available in US) do I need for basic service. Will be traveling next year and need to bring essentials along.


Unless you also plan to service the damper, bath oil and some Slickoleum are all you need.

This is the stock bath oil:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pldnSite=1

And this is the damper oil:
https://www.amazon.com/Maxima-59901...G&refRID=EYRM3SSBV8XZJ3X6XYZG&pldnSite=1&th=1


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

FWIW the Motorex stuff might be at your local motorcycle store. I got it for about half the price local compared to what I could find it for online.

I guess I need the damper fluid too...Looks like the WPL 2.5wt I have is very close to the same viscosity with a better viscosity index. Should work.

FWIW, there is decent drag on the stanchion with the seals in. If I do one stanchion at a time, the damper leg will keep moving with gravity once it gets started. Not the case on the air-spring side. I think burnishing is going to help. I ordered new seals though so I'll pull them and test it without seals too.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Modeling this fork up has clarified some things. I think I need to model the Lyrik now too though for comparison.

Something that would look very interesting to try is a coil setup that maintains the sealed lowers on both sides. If my model is correct, you actually pick up about 240lb of progressive bottoming force from the lowers if you sealed the upper stanchion on the damper side too. Between that and the HBO of the Mezzer, this fork might be serious business with a coil.


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

I would like to reshim the mezzer. Is there a damper rebuild guide? I looked but could not find one. Like to know what I'm getting into before taking it all apart.

Evolution Training Cycles


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Reshimming the mezzer was easier than I thought it would be. 

Stock shim stack:
20x.15
17.5x.15
17.5x.15
6x.50

Took out one of the 17.5 shims. we'll see how it rides

Evolution Training Cycles


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The plot thickens...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> The plot thickens...


Now that's a custom tune!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Let's see how Hayes handles an issue after the customer took it apart...
I wouldn't have gotten into it had I thought there was a real issue, just thought maybe people where overselling this fork...


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Yikes! Looks like you had a valid beef with how your Mezzer performed. At least you have a lot to look forward too after that washer gets replaced.



mike156 said:


> The plot thickens...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Let's see how Hayes handles an issue after the customer took it apart...
> I wouldn't have gotten into it had I thought there was a real issue, just thought maybe people where overselling this fork...


I would recommend calling them. They were super helpful and quick the first time I reached out to them.

I'm excited for you to finally get to ride a proper Mezzer and to hear your results.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> The plot thickens...


So that's a preload shim caught and crimped during assembly?

Told ya it was too much HSC!:thumbsup:

Manitou will look after you. Give them a call.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Indeed, it definitely had some...not great...damping.

Just some more info though related to earlier posts.
Measured the volume of the 27.5 lowers to be 423CC. This is to the top of the wiper seal, with the foam rings in and greased up so they didn't absorb anything, all the other grease and lube cleaned out though. The stanchion looks to sit 132mm past the top of the wiper when at 180mm.

Lower Leg Volume Equation
Y[cc] = -0.9966911*X[mm] + 267.4178

This puts lower leg volume at 88cc at bottom out. 20cc of oil on top...Things get squishy and high on pressure, for sure.

I also started looking into replacement HSC springs. Indeed, the HSC spring does not touch the spring seat in the full open position. The stroke range on the adjuster goes from 8.5mm of clearance to 4mm of clearance. The spring is for a 10mm shaft, 15mm OD. Free height of 7mm. I did some ROUGH measurements using a scale and a caliper and got ~1100g/mm on stiffness.

I've found a couple springs that are ~half the rate and would provide either small free play or slight preload. I have one that would basically take what position 1 is (one click in from closed) as the max setting and then go down to ~0 preload at full open position.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Indeed, it definitely had some...not great...damping.
> 
> Just some more info though related to earlier posts.
> Measured the volume of the 27.5 lowers to be 423CC. This is to the top of the wiper seal, with the foam rings in and greased up so they didn't absorb anything, all the other grease and lube cleaned out though. The stanchion looks to sit 132mm past the top of the wiper when at 180mm.
> ...


Internal volume is the same for 27" and 29". They moved the axle and brake position and offset on the casting to change wheel size.

Are your discovered springs wafer type or coil?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Stacked wave disc with flat ends. Same as what's in it.

https://www.rotorclip.com/

Not sure what their pricing is like though.


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Internal volume is the same for 27" and 29". They moved the axle and brake position and offset on the casting to change wheel size.
> 
> Are your discovered springs wafer type or coil?


So I could just buy a set of 27.5" lowers to convert my 29er (51mm) Mezzer?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MsvSpaz said:


> So I could just buy a set of 27.5" lowers to convert my 29er (51mm) Mezzer?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes. It'll be 44mm offset as a 27".

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Yes. It'll be 44mm offset as a 27".
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Great to know.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.

Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.
> 
> Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.


They are about to release the zero-flex, zero-friction, zero-stiction, zero-hysteresis version; with bushings developed for world-class bulldozers.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.
> 
> Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.


I don't think you can make that inference in this case. The sale is across every product in the entire Hayes line of brands, which they seem to do every so often. If only they could keep the entire line in stock.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Im impressed with mezzer air spring system. 1,5x POS/IRT ratio, ofcourse approximated. Without lowers pressure buildup.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That's a nice looking curve!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Here was what my model came up with. The Lowers have a pretty big impact. The coil with lowers assumes the spring exists in the upper stanchion and the bottom of it is sealed off to get the ramp up of the lowers air pressure.


----------



## Tubbsy (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.

The blue rebound adjuster at the bottom of the fork seems incredibly stiff. Should it turn easily? I see there's a small Allen bolt inside it, but from looking at the service manuals this is for fork disassembly.

Could it be done up too tight from factory impeding movement of the adjuster?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Tubbsy said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.
> 
> ...


Yes, lossen it and then turn it fix to the pointythat the rebound adjuster stil moves freely enough.


----------



## Tubbsy (Jul 14, 2008)

bansaiman said:


> Yes, lossen it and then turn it fix to the pointythat the rebound adjuster stil moves freely enough.


Thanks Mate.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I serviced my original Mezzer today for it's new owner. Realising in the process that this fork with over a years use had no seals replaced and was only lubed up for travel changes.

New owner gets the new lower legs. I never had a problem with the original bushings but the original bumpers floated around a lot.

My new Limited Edition Mezzer will be shipping soon. I still have no idea what it's going to look like!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Tubbsy said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.
> 
> ...


No, the tension on that bolt should have nothing to do with the adjuster effort.

It is worth disassembling though to clean and inspect. If the o-ring is totally dry, it could cause extra friction.


----------



## Tubbsy (Jul 14, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> No, the tension on that bolt should have nothing to do with the adjuster effort.
> 
> It is worth disassembling though to clean and inspect. If the o-ring is totally dry, it could cause extra friction.


Thanks for that. I've only just built the bike up and hadn't spent any time on this yet.

Turns out making the first turn of the adjuster needed quite a lot of force for whatever reason, but now it clicks silkily all the way round.

I didn't loosen the bolt, so all good now I think.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

mike156 said:


> Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.
> 
> CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.
> 
> ...


Seems like the Mezzer has a superior chassis, and air spring design compared to the big 2. Is it possible to install an Avy Cart in to a Mezzer? Maybe needs a custom machined top cap?
Thoughts?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Post #2304
My damper was damaged internally from the factory. Every concern I have had about performance needs to be tossed. Hopefully it resolves the poor performace and this fork becomes awesome.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> Seems like the Mezzer has a superior chassis, and air spring design compared to the big 2. Is it possible to install an Avy Cart in to a Mezzer? Maybe needs a custom machined top cap?
> Thoughts?


First try, if you do not like it stock, custom shim Tuning. Made my fork more supportive / controlled through stronger shimstack but more sensitive as well with thinner oil. This fork really rocks. But witj custom topcap you could use another cartridge, of course.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

My Mezzer is still performing well but I cannot keep the damper side bath oil in the lowers for longer than about 6 rides. It migrates up and around the damper and there it stays. Hayes recommended removing the o ring in the white plastic bumper in the stanchion which I've done and I'll keep an eye on it but I'm surprised it isn't a common issue given there isn't much scope for variation. Not like my fork is any different than others. 

For info Supergliss 100k took the longest to get up there but given the damper is ingesting fluid and 100k and damper oil don't mix well I changed the bath oil on that side to 5w Motorex (same as the damper) which given the lesser viscosity explains the rate of suck up.

I've shrunk the Mezzer to 140 and it's now on another bike whilst I test out the Ohlins M2 coil in it's place. First ride showed many similarities and a couple of decent differences between the two.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

bansaiman said:


> First try, if you do not like it stock, custom shim Tuning. Made my fork more supportive / controlled through stronger shimstack but more sensitive as well with thinner oil. This fork really rocks. But witj custom topcap you could use another cartridge, of course.


What oil are you using in your damper?


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Has anybody had luck finding supergliss 100k in the USA? I am hoping to get around to suspension service before our trip in a couple weeks.

THANKS!


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I just bought some from Dougal (shockcraft.co.nz) and it was ~$35 USD and took two weeks to get to Philadelphia from NZ.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

johnsogr said:


> I just bought some from Dougal (shockcraft.co.nz) and it was ~$35 USD and took two weeks to get to Philadelphia from NZ.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


hmm when you say things like that, it's tempting to order a tuned mezzer from dougal. have him go through it before shipping at the very least...


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

After a week of waiting for a response on a warranty request through Haye's email system I gave them a call and it sounds like a new damper is on the way now. I must have just slipped through the cracks on their email system.

FWIW, I've been riding the Lyrik and it's every bit as good as I remember. It does feel a touch high on the front now though after the riser bars. I did the riser bar to make up for the lower feeling front on the 180mm Mezzer compared to the 170mm Lyrik.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Does anyone have info on how to properly disassemble the damper? I took it out last night intending to remove the extra HSC shim. I see a few ways to start disassembling it, but I got worried about doing something wrong and ruining my weekend so I backed out. 

Since I had it out, I added some "like water" to the damper to thin it out a bit, and it made a noticeable difference on my ride today. I was able to run a bit more air pressure on both the high and low side, which kept me more in the mid-travel while still feeling plush. It cut down the pedal bob without needing LSC and gave me more rebound to play with. Definitely a move in the right direction.

Still, I'm preferring the HSC wide open, so I need to either add more "like water" or remove that extra compression shim.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
Does anyone have the same problem with me?


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Starry Firmament said:


> The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
> i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
> but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
> Does anyone have the same problem with me?


Reduce front tire pressure


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

thanks for your reply.
my front tire pressure is 25 psi.
for a 2.6" tire i think i can't reduce it anymore otherwise it will easily Puncture.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

describe when you think its harsh. Speed, bump size etc. Im 165bs and use 18-19 psi with light instert in front tire


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

when going though on rock garden at medium speed. (high-speed compression)
or on small rock,small pump at low speed.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> describe when you think its harsh. Speed, bump size etc. Im 165bs and use 18-19 psi with light instert in front tire


Agreed, I'm also 165 and have Minion DHF 2.5 in front (EXO) without an insert, ride in rocky PA, and only have 16 PSI, I think you can go lower

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Starry Firmament said:


> The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
> i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
> but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
> Does anyone have the same problem with me?


Start with the HSC and LSC wide open and main/IRT pressures 8-10 psi under recommended. Then add LSC to taste.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Settings update for whoever is keeping track of these

I've definitely got my COVID weight going right now... about 195lbs out of the shower

I started with my Mezzer at 170 but the bike feels more balanced at 160.

Main: 62PSI
IRT: 95PSI

Clicks from closed
Rebound:4
HSC: 2-3
LSC: 5-6

Love love love the way it keeps your front end up on steep, chunky trails that are full of stair step like rocks, roots and bombholes.

Example: We shuttled Lemmon Drop in Tuscon yesterday and coming down the La Milagrosa trail you ride ride tons of STEEP rocky chunk.

I've been trying to find my ideal air spring setup for several years now. I've ran Vorsprung Luftkappe, MRP Ramp and most recently had a Runt'd Lyrik before this (and have a Runt'd 36 on my hardtail)... I'm sold on the dual chamber positive spring systems.

**Footnote**

My setup is pretty progressive and I generally don't like uber plush forks... mainly, I love riding steep chunky trails and I hate a fork that dives a lot when you grab a bunch of front brake. The Mezzer is the best mix of plush and support I've found yet (my Runt'd and DSD tuned Lyrik being a close second).


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

ungod said:


> Does anyone have info on how to properly disassemble the damper? I took it out last night intending to remove the extra HSC shim. I see a few ways to start disassembling it, but I got worried about doing something wrong and ruining my weekend so I backed out.
> 
> Since I had it out, I added some "like water" to the damper to thin it out a bit, and it made a noticeable difference on my ride today. I was able to run a bit more air pressure on both the high and low side, which kept me more in the mid-travel while still feeling plush. It cut down the pedal bob without needing LSC and gave me more rebound to play with. Definitely a move in the right direction.
> 
> Still, I'm preferring the HSC wide open, so I need to either add more "like water" or remove that extra compression shim.


This stuff?

https://www.redlineoil.com/likewater-suspension-fluid

So your basically tuning the viscosity of the oil in the damper? Any disadvantages there?

Thanks in advance, interesting!


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

elsinore said:


> This stuff?
> 
> https://www.redlineoil.com/likewater-suspension-fluid
> 
> ...


Yep! I had some lying around that I bought for a project years ago and never used. It was a big deal years ago on dampers that were not easily tuned, you could just throw some thinner fluid in the damper you had.

I'm not really sure what the drawbacks or the current thinking on it is. The obvious would be that it's difficult to end up with a precise result. And of course it isn't cheap!


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Whoops, I just realized I misspoke... my compression settings were clicks from open. Just edited.

I prefer to run less compression damping and let the air spring provide the support. Having this option for fork setup is what I like the most about a dual chamber positive air spring.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Mezzer uses a parabolic LSC needle. Very nice.

Is this step in the needle normal on the Mezzer LSC adjuster though? Or a machining issue?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That is interesting. I'm curious to see if anyone else finds the same, or if that is a defect. Sure seems like a shame to notch a nice paraboloid like that!


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

While we are on the topic - for those attempting to soften the damping on this fork, what has been the preferred method? Thinner damping fluid, removing a shim, both? I have read through most of this thread, but I would be curious to hear more of what folks have found working for them. Mostly I would like to end up in the middle of the range of adjustability on compression - to be able to open or close it up depending on terrain.

For reference, I am at 170mm and tend to run HSC fully open (4 clicks from closed), LSC mostly open, and rebound mostly open at 8 clicks from closed. I am a tad bit softer on the air-spring side as well, but it still exhibits the support I prefer. I generally ride chunky, rocky, and semi-steep terrain, but this is my do-it-all bike that sees flatter/smoother terrain as well.

I am about to do a service (100hr) mark and change up the bath fluid to Supergliss 100k as well. Given the recommendations, I wanted to try it out.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> While we are on the topic - for those attempting to soften the damping on this fork, what has been the preferred method? Thinner damping fluid, removing a shim, both? I have read through most of this thread, but I would be curious to hear more of what folks have found working for them. Mostly I would like to end up in the middle of the range of adjustability on compression - to be able to open or close it up depending on terrain.
> 
> For reference, I am at 170mm and tend to run HSC fully open (4 clicks from closed), LSC mostly open, and rebound mostly open at 8 clicks from closed. I am a tad bit softer on the air-spring side as well, but it still exhibits the support I prefer. I generally ride chunky, rocky, and semi-steep terrain, but this is my do-it-all bike that sees flatter/smoother terrain as well.
> 
> I am about to do a service (100hr) mark and change up the bath fluid to Supergliss 100k as well. Given the recommendations, I wanted to try it out.


Remove the extra shim.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I know I've seen this somewhere in this thread but cant locate it...

Can someone confirm the recommended setting are:

CFC (click from closed)

or

CFO (click from open)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> I know I've seen this somewhere in this thread but cant locate it...
> 
> Can someone confirm the recommended setting are:
> 
> ...


Count lsc and lsr from closed as they are needle valves and closed is the only determined position.

Count HSC from open as it introduces preload and open is the determined position.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Dougal said:


> Count lsc and lsr from closed as they are needle valves and closed is the only determined position.
> 
> Count HSC from open as it introduces preload and open is the determined position.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Ok, that's a good way to remember.

So just going by this guide for example: 
LSC Trail 1-4 CFC
HSC Trail 3-4 CFO

That is their intent?


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

how many shim should I remove in order to soften the damping? 
can I remove all of them?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Starry Firmament said:


> how many shim should I remove in order to soften the damping?
> can I remove all of them?


See above post #2352....might help..


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Pulled the wipers to get a better idea of bushing fit. One side slid well (csu would fall under it's own weight down the lower), the other was tight. Both stanchions in the lowers and the wheel mounted and it just got worse.

After burnishing at 37.07mm, things are moving freely. The sticky side was noticably tighter during burnishing.

Doesn't seem like Manitou has lowers and bushing tolerances figured out any better than Fox/RS.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?

Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spicy said:


> Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?
> 
> Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!


In theory the QR15 Hexlock could fit. In reality they're not in stock anywhere so I haven't been able to try.
You would have to buy the QR15 and the dropout hardware to make it all fit.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

spicy said:


> Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?
> 
> Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!


First. World. Problem.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

If you can find a boost axle I will donate the dropout hardware from when I swapped to the better system on my mattoc.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

spicy said:


> Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?
> 
> Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!


You have them in stock at Universal Cycles
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=84064
If you are willing to wait I can do an empirical test in a couple of days.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Does anyone have any experience with the expert model?


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

I do occasionally encounter more serious problems than this! :thumbsup:

Thats very kind of you, I'll let you know how I get on finding an axle (out of stock on the universalcycles link provided).


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

spicy said:


> I do occasionally encounter more serious problems than this!
> 
> Thats very kind of you, I'll let you know how I get on finding an axle (out of stock on the universalcycles link provided).


On my phone the Boost version is in stock. Only the non Boost version is out of stock.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

Good spot, I stopped scrolling a bit prematurely :thumbsup:
The prices to the UK are getting a bit silly including postage, import charges etc (£120+), so I'll keep my eye out for UK/EU stock and hold out for a while


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mike156 said:


> Pulled the wipers to get a better idea of bushing fit. One side slid well (csu would fall under it's own weight down the lower), the other was tight. Both stanchions in the lowers and the wheel mounted and it just got worse.
> 
> After burnishing at 37.07mm, things are moving freely. The sticky side was noticably tighter during burnishing.
> 
> Doesn't seem like Manitou has lowers and bushing tolerances figured out any better than Fox/RS.


Yeah I don't think Manitou have their QC process dialed as yet. I've been running an Ohlins M2 fork the past few rides (switching between coil and air)and after fitting that it highlighted how tight it was getting my front wheel into the fork lowers of the Mezzer suggesting CCS86 was probably correct when he shaved the inside face of the lowers. Maybe an alignment tolerance issue there? The hub glides into the Ohlins with much less drama.

In relation to quickly describing the fork differences...The way the Ohlins deals with repeated high speed square edge hits feels better than the Mezzer (both the air and the coil Ohlins feel more controlled). Ohlins seems to get out of the way upon impact quicker and recover quicker, feels unflustered. The Mezzer was good but there could be a feeling of getting hung up and the bike slowing down on repeated hits depending on the terrain.

Braking over bumps on the Ohlins feels more controlled, much more so than the Mezzer. Ohlins feels like it's staying up higher in it's stroke under brakes but remains active (both the coil and air display this trait). The Mezzer felt like a trade off...if I got the rebound fast enough is this scenario it would feel skittish off the brakes. If i put more pressure in it to keep it higher I lost compliance.

Bear in mind I am mostly splitting hairs here, they are both good forks and for me much better than any standard 36 or Lyrik that I've had. The extra stiffness of the Mezzer could be playing a part here, especially under brakes. Not sure about the accuracy of these figures below.

From the first post in this thread by Mullen..

'Torsionally, the Mezzer is 30% stiffer than a Fox 36, 16% stiffer than a Ohlins RFX36, 1% stiffer than a Lyrik

Fore-aft, the Mezzer is 7% stiffer than a 36, 20% stiffer than a RFX, and 4% stiffer than a Lyrik'

I've also removed a check shim and flipped the remaining one to reduce compression damping on the Mezzer. It's a tangible improvement to compliance and improved reaction speed. Feels like there has been an overall reduction in friction but still retains enough damping for my riding. If I hadn't been fortunate enough to try the Ohlins I would have been a happy camper.

Both good forks but the QC of the Manitou is/was questionable (too early to tell with the Ohlins). So far with the Mezzer I've had 3 sets of lowers (current set has lasted the longest and seems to be a good one), one complete fork replacement, a replacement CSU and the damper side oil migrates up the damper side leg and stays there. Manitou have accepted all the issues but their comms are average and shipping replacement parts is slow.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

*Mezzer LE*


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

hugelick said:


> View attachment 1376901


... hmm, not for me. I think they might be going for some kind of vintage / throwback look, but personally, I'm glad forks are no longer silver.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

ColinL said:


> ... hmm, not for me. I think they might be going for some kind of vintage / throwback look, but personally, I'm glad forks are no longer silver.


My buddy has a silver Pike on the bike he built his wife, I guess it's just a trend this year. Like all the strange colored Fox lowers, it looks very good on the right bike.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hugelick said:


> View attachment 1376901


Mine arrived yesterday. Stickers are chunkier and it looks a lot sharper than that photo.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

hugelick said:


>


I think that might look pretty good with my raw aluminum frame.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

springs said:


> it highlighted how tight it was getting my front wheel into the fork lowers of the Mezzer suggesting CCS86 was probably correct when he shaved the inside face of the lowers. Maybe an alignment tolerance issue there? The hub glides into the Ohlins with much less drama.


There are two things at play there:


The paint applied to the axle cap flanges seems to be unaccounted for in the alignment stackup. It is a very small amount of thickness to remove from the stack. But, it does help the chassis friction to correct this.
The Mezzer has a wheel retention "feature". This, by far, is the reason the wheel feels tight when installing. The "ramps" leading the axle caps into the flange area aren't tangent with that flange. They form a perimeter wall that partially captures the axle caps. This makes it so you can remove the axle without the wheel falling out. It will stay in place without the axle. If you don't care about this, you could sand/file down this extra material, and the wheel would slot in easily.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

So, pulled the trigger on one of these. I just hope it arrives with no damaged stanchions, with bleed ports, without binding issues, with no bend shims etc. etc.

Supposedly it has more effective dampening than my Lyrik, where the dials don't really do anything. Crossing fingers!


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

boellefisk said:


> Supposedly it has more effective dampening than my Lyrik, where the dials don't really do anything. Crossing fingers!


Hey that's not true. The dials go full open (sort of works, but slow speed diving) to super shitty feeling.

my bandaid is MRP ramp control for high speed compression and just deal with slow speed diving.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

hugelick said:


>


I don't see this color fork for sale anywhere. Where did you find this?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

*Talk to me about Mezzer Pro HBO Circuit*

From what I understand the Mezzer Pro HBO is hydraulic and 30mm.

Seems like I get to the edge of the HBO on travel but never into it.

Just for comparison I am 225lbs and on F36 & Lyrik I could get into that last bit of travel on my normal rides and especially on big g-outs.

Does any part of the compression circuit HSC/LSC have any impact on HBO?

Fork set at 150mm


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Curveball said:


> I don't see this color fork for sale anywhere. Where did you find this?


These were a limited edition run that is all sold out. Orders were months back when life was crazy.
Pretty easy to replicate though.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=100021


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Can't they just be pushed in by hand like RS seals?
But yeah, I'd be interested in it, but I guess it isn't practical since you are US based, right?


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

$1,099? That is an expensive paint job! I like my black Mezzer even more.



hugelick said:


> looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=100021


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

hugelick said:


> looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=100021


Thanks much. My bike is 27.5 though and I think a black one will be fine.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


I'd be interested. Guess i'll need it eventually.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Mezzer seals also fit a BOS fork. I've had my stock cleaned out a few times by people needing them.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


sure, +1


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


For sure, would be greatly appreciated!

Memory hazy but did you also make the wrench for marra pro air can?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Yup, count me in.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

croakies said:


> For sure, would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Memory hazy but did you also make the wrench for marra pro air can?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


That's me.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Yes, that would be great!


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Why hell yes I would be interested in a seal driver, count me in


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

boellefisk said:


> Can't they just be pushed in by hand like RS seals?
> But yeah, I'd be interested in it, but I guess it isn't practical since you are US based, right?


They seem to be tighter/stronger then RS seals I've done as I'm not able to just push them in by hand.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Yes please. Count me in.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Me too! Thanks for the initiative!


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

An estimate of the HSC shim stack preload and some different springs from rotorclip. The MWL all have roughly the same rate in a given diameter. The last letter is the height, so the longer springs add preload. MWM is a stiffer spring (the stock spring is roughly MWM-14 B, (shorter and stiffer). I think the MWL-14 C is the most intersting as it has VERY LITTLE preload in actual use and in the stiffest position is about 1 click out from fully hard compared to stock.

FWIW, they do not stock the flat (shim) faced versions of these springs. However, they sent me some samples of the springs without flat faces and they look like they will work fine. It might be possible to get the flat face version as a bulk order though. The part number changes a bit depending on the material selected.
MWL-14SQ CF - stainless, flat faced
MWL-14ST CF - steel, flat faced


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Compression basevalve lapped with 1000 grit then 1500.

Upper right - original
Upper left - this was actually a decent amount of the way in. Maybe 60% of the total lapping effort.
Lower left - 80%
Lower right - final after 1500 grit


Feature (dished) or manufacturing???


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

mike156 said:


> They seem to be tighter/stronger then RS seals I've done as I'm not able to just push them in by hand.


Then I'd be very interested. How do you get them out? Can you just pry them loose with a flathead screwdriver?


----------



## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


 I would like to get in in this as well, please and thank you!


----------



## otsdr (Nov 15, 2009)

I use a driver made by Unior, works just fine. https://uniorusa.com/collections/su.../suspension-fork-seal-installation-guide-1702


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

otsdr said:


> I use a driver made by Unior, works just fine. https://uniorusa.com/collections/su.../suspension-fork-seal-installation-guide-1702


I have used the 35/36mm one on a 36. was a really loose fit in the seal, nothing like the RS one on RS seal. i can see this working


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

boellefisk said:


> Then I'd be very interested. How do you get them out? Can you just pry them loose with a flathead screwdriver?


I see this type of question from time to time in fork discussions and wanted to share my technique. I don't have pics.

1. Buy a Pedros downhill tire lever. It has a hardened smooth chrome finish and a rounded tip that is FAR less likely to gouge your fork than using a flat screwdriver or any other kind of lever. You can also use it for mounting or dismounting stubborn tires. 

2. Put a piece of a shop rag (not too thin) against the fork so that when you use the DH lever to pry the seal out, the shaft of the lever is not resting directly on the fork, it's on the rag.

3. Pry it up & out. :thumbsup:


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

i normally use the ring end of a spanner of whatever size i grab first from the draw. pedros dh lever seems like a good idea though. 
used the hook bit on the back of a unior strap wrench too which works really well


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

All those methods can work to get the seals out without damaging the fork, if you are careful. 

The trouble is, you are very likely to damage the seals. Especially, these Mezzer seals, with upward and downward facing lips. 

I designed a pretty slick tool to extract these seals without damaging them. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

CCS86 said:


> All those methods can work to get the seals out without damaging the fork, if you are careful.
> 
> The trouble is, you are very likely to damage the seals. Especially, these Mezzer seals, with upward and downward facing lips.
> 
> I designed a pretty slick tool to extract these seals without damaging them. PM me if you are interested.


real question - and not in any way intended to be snarky

why would you remove the seals if not replacing them? if I am just replacing bath oil or servicing a damper and I know the seals are fresh, I do not touch them.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

To burnish the bushings on a fork that doesn't need the seals replaced.

I was curious, but new seals are only like $23 so I went that direction instead of trying to make a puller that wouldn't damage them.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

mike156 said:


> To burnish the bushings on a fork that doesn't need the seals replaced.
> 
> I was curious, *but new seals are only like $23 *so I went that direction instead of trying to make a puller that wouldn't damage them.


I've never done anything with bushings on a fork. I have been following this thread and have read that some Mezzers come with too-tight bushings so I get that.

I'd still just pull and replace the seals. I would not trust them to be undamaged after removing and re-installing regardless of the tool and method used.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

CCS86 said:


> That's me.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Nice, Let me know if you have another laying around. Would definitely pay for that tool as well.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

ColinL said:


> I see this type of question from time to time in fork discussions and wanted to share my technique. I don't have pics.
> 
> 1. Buy a Pedros downhill tire lever. It has a hardened smooth chrome finish and a rounded tip that is FAR less likely to gouge your fork than using a flat screwdriver or any other kind of lever. You can also use it for mounting or dismounting stubborn tires.
> 
> ...


This seems like a really good idea. Thanks! 
Loving these forums.


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

I'd also be interested in the seal installation tool


----------



## The Death Projects (Aug 26, 2020)

*Mezzer Pro*

Hey all! Thanks for the shout out from some of you. If I can help out with any Manitou stuff let me know. I sell tons of Pro's and things are starting to get back in stock!

Thanks again and keep in touch!

Vince
www.thedeathprojects.com


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

The Death Projects said:


> Hey all! Thanks for the shout out from some of you. If I can help out with any Manitou stuff let me know. I sell tons of Pro's and things are starting to get back in stock!
> 
> Thanks again and keep in touch!
> 
> ...


Was going all over your site looking for mezzer pricing but saw that you carry magped pedals - I am genuinely curious about how many of those you have sold? I have never seen them in the wild and I think this was the first time I have seen them for sale.


----------



## The Death Projects (Aug 26, 2020)

Get with me for ANY pricing. I have a basic store up, but can quote direct. Save you hundreds on forks! 

As for Magped...LOVE LOVE them! Just brought them in as a dealer. So getting the word out, but nicely done stuff. Just wish they would rebrand: instead of Safety pedals, PERFORMANCE pedals! LOL.

I did mention that to them 


Email me from my site if you need pricing or the like


----------



## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

Per the Manitou site, the 29" Mezzer weighs less than the Mattoc Pro (by 1g). I'm a light weight rider (145 lbs) and really don't need 37mm stanchions. Ignoring cost, is there any reason why I would choose the Mattoc over the Mezzer? And am I reading the specs right that both the 27.5 and 29 Mezzer can be reduced to 140mm travel?


----------



## The Death Projects (Aug 26, 2020)

Cost may be irrelevant when you know me!


----------



## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

The Death Projects said:


> Cost may be irrelevant when you know me!


Hi Death Projects. My name is aski.


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Yep, I'm in for one. Thanks!


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

@mike156
How did you disassemble the piston?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I still haven't taken apart the piston. I need to get a 16.2mm shaft clamp to hold the outer tube to take it apart.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Apologies if this is an ignorant question, but without completely understanding the damper on this bike, I will risk it...

I currently run rebound 9-10 clicks from closed (basically fully open) and could use a bit faster return speed. I realized this after running a different fork recently, and the biggest thing I noticed was how "poppy" it felt on the rebound - in a good way for my terrain and riding preference. 

I am considering pulling the "extra" shim from the damper during this next service, and I am wondering if this also affects rebound? I realize that softening the compression damping may let me run more air pressure which would potentially have a similar effect, but curious everyone's thoughts.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

FWIW, the Mezzer Pro is on sale at Hayes for $800.

I finally ordered one to replace my MRP Ribbon.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

jcmonty said:


> Apologies if this is an ignorant question, but without completely understanding the damper on this bike, I will risk it...
> 
> I currently run rebound 9-10 clicks from closed (basically fully open) and could use a bit faster return speed. I realized this after running a different fork recently, and the biggest thing I noticed was how "poppy" it felt on the rebound - in a good way for my terrain and riding preference.
> 
> I am considering pulling the "extra" shim from the damper during this next service, and I am wondering if this also affects rebound? I realize that softening the compression damping may let me run more air pressure which would potentially have a similar effect, but curious everyone's thoughts.


They are a different set of shims that control rebound.

BUT -- I think that when you pull the extra shim, you'll find that you can run a lot more air pressure. That extra air pressure will create more rebound pressure, so your problem will probably be solved in a roundabout way.

I haven't pulled the shim on mine yet....I ran thinner damper fluid for now The thinner fluid had a similar effect and my fork pressure went from 40/70psi to 55/85. Now I run a few clicks from full-open on rebound and still have much faster rebound than before.


----------



## R.T.R. (Sep 20, 2005)

aski said:


> Per the Manitou site, the 29" Mezzer weighs less than the Mattoc Pro (by 1g). I'm a light weight rider (145 lbs) and really don't need 37mm stanchions. Ignoring cost, is there any reason why I would choose the Mattoc over the Mezzer? And am I reading the specs right that both the 27.5 and 29 Mezzer can be reduced to 140mm travel?


Yes you can reduce both to 140. 
The Mezzer comes with enough travel reduction spacers to go from 180 to 140 in 1cm increments.
That being said one of mine is set at 130 on my Ibis Ripley V4 and works just fine.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

]

Bummer they won't ship North of the border.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

006_007 said:


> ]
> 
> Bummer they won't ship North of the border.


Smithtech is there to sort you out: https://www.smithtechbike.com/


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Welp, after lurking around here, the ERA thread, and even getting in line for the great Avy Hybrid product, I just pulled the trigger on the Mezzer LE for my new SJ Evo build. It'll be paired with a rear EXT coil shock on the new bike.

It came down to a few things but my weight weenie-ism and the nice color way that sort of matches my new frame, definitely didn't hurt any.

It'll show up as a 180mm travel. Do I just lower the travel, set it the recommended settings, and let it rip? Or anything else that I can do to improve performance internally and have it close to dialed right out of the gate?

Thanks.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I have the same question, my friend got a new mezzer pro for his new bike and asked me to help him set it up. Are there best practices for the regular set up somewhere? And are there any internal mods that would be helpful for a 170 pound, agressive, rider with proper dh trails? Obviously after he get a feel for it we can tweak the valving, but not sure how the tune is out of the box.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Welp, after lurking around here, the ERA thread, and even getting in line for the great Avy Hybrid product, I just pulled the trigger on the Mezzer LE for my new SJ Evo build. It'll be paired with a rear EXT coil shock on the new bike.
> 
> It came down to a few things but my weight weenie-ism and the nice color way that sort of matches my new frame, definitely didn't hurt any.
> 
> ...


You'll have a bag of travel spacer pucks in the box. Each one is 10mm. Lower legs off, air shaft out and clip them in *above* the top-out bumper.

Make sure air shaft is greased above the cap and IRT shaft is greased. Set air pressures to your weight (kg) in the top and 2/3 that in the bottom.

Go bounce around a carpark and set rebound then dial in compression on the trail.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> You'll have a bag of travel spacer pucks in the box. Each one is 10mm. Lower legs off, air shaft out and clip them in *above* the top-out bumper.
> 
> Make sure air shaft is greased above the cap and IRT shaft is greased. Set air pressures to your weight (kg) in the top and 2/3 that in the bottom.
> 
> Go bounce around a carpark and set rebound then dial in compression on the trail.


Thanks Dougal, printing up your suggestions now.


----------



## Twilight70 (May 24, 2019)

*Turkey Day sale*

25% off site-wide at Hayes!


----------



## The Death Projects (Aug 26, 2020)

I’m still quite a bit less. Just FYI 😉


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

The Death Projects said:


> I'm still quite a bit less. Just FYI 


Do you have any 160/29/44 Mezzer Pro's? Tried to buy one from you all summer on PinkBike 



Twilight70 said:


> 25% off site-wide at Hayes!


Doh!


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

You can just pick up the 180mm. Very easy to take the travel down to 160mm. Death Projects is legit too!



06HokieMTB said:


> Do you have any 160/29/44 Mezzer Pro's? Tried to buy one from you all summer on PinkBike
> 
> Doh!
> View attachment 1379527


----------



## The Death Projects (Aug 26, 2020)

Haha. Should have bought one then . I can get the 180. Just adjust it. Easily.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Welp, after lurking around here, the ERA thread, and even getting in line for the great Avy Hybrid product, I just pulled the trigger on the Mezzer LE for my new SJ Evo build. It'll be paired with a rear EXT coil shock on the new bike.
> 
> It came down to a few things but my weight weenie-ism and the nice color way that sort of matches my new frame, definitely didn't hurt any.


Nice, what Evo are you riding? Those EXT shocks look outstanding, definitely post a picture of it matched with that LE fork.

I picked up a discounted 2020 Evo alloy 27.5 frame from Specialized for $1200. Built it up with my old Mattoc Pro for now, but just ordered a Mezzer/Mara Pro on Hayes' Black Friday sale. Should ride quite well for a "budget" build


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Stoked! I've been lurking for a few days here and I finally pulled the trigger on 180mm 29er Mezzer. I will use this fork for most of my GG configurations. I'm hoping you fellas can provide some input regarding my current setups.

I'm a 150lb intermediate rider about 3 years of riding experience, learning new stuffs and thinks a 5 foot drop is pretty spicy. Lives in Midwest and visits surrounding states frequently. Right now my daily driver are the Trail Pistol 120mm 29er/Shred Dogg 140mm 27.5. 

Both configurations currently have a Rockshox Reba 120mm. Decent serviceable fork that will do the job just fine on mellow stuff but 'tis a noodle.

The Mezzer 140mm will replace this fork and I'm looking to get a responsive and playful feel out of it. Ability to popped off feature and soak up small bumps at the same time. I will pair it with either of Avy bomber cr and DVO Topaz.


For "big" and bike park days, I either have the Megatrail 27.5/29 and soon a Gnarvana 29er. Travel will be set on either 170mm and 180mm and will replace my DVO Diamond. Outback will be an 11.6 at 155/165. 

For this setup, I like the fork to be supportive where it won't dive deep on steeps and braking. A bit of small bump sensitivity for comfort. Ability to blow off travel on high speed square hits.

My current front 29er wheel is an i9 Enduro 305. Tires are Maxxis Rekon(trail) and Assegai(DH).

I will review the spreadsheet tonight to figure out a close enough starting point but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Cheers!


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jakalwil said:


> Nice, what Evo are you riding? Those EXT shocks look outstanding, definitely post a picture of it matched with that LE fork.
> 
> I picked up a discounted 2020 Evo alloy 27.5 frame from Specialized for $1200. Built it up with my old Mattoc Pro for now, but just ordered a Mezzer/Mara Pro on Hayes' Black Friday sale. Should ride quite well for a "budget" build


It's an ordered '21 SJ Evo S5 frameset. 
Pretty eager to get it. Hopefully I'll have it put together by mid-January

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Twilight70 said:


> 25% off site-wide at Hayes!


Well crap, they would do this just after I ordered one.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

noobshredur said:


> Stoked! I've been lurking for a few days here and I finally pulled the trigger on 180mm 29er Mezzer. I will use this fork for most of my GG configurations. I'm hoping you fellas can provide some input regarding my current setups.
> 
> I'm a 150lb intermediate rider about 3 years of riding experience, learning new stuffs and thinks a 5 foot drop is pretty spicy. Lives in Midwest and visits surrounding states frequently. Right now my daily driver are the Trail Pistol 120mm 29er/Shred Dogg 140mm 27.5.
> 
> ...


That's either a lot of seatstay kits or a load of bikes. I'll be running a 170 mm Mezzer on my Megatrail.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> You'll have a bag of travel spacer pucks in the box. Each one is 10mm. Lower legs off, air shaft out and clip them in *above* the top-out bumper.
> 
> Make sure air shaft is greased above the cap and IRT shaft is greased. Set air pressures to your weight (kg) in the top and 2/3 that in the bottom.
> 
> Go bounce around a carpark and set rebound then dial in compression on the trail.


So those psi settings are for a 160 travel version correct?
Any psi recommendations for the Mezzer as a 150? Going to run the Mezzer on my old frame as a 150 till the new frame shows up.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> So those psi settings are for a 160 travel version correct?
> Any psi recommendations for the Mezzer as a 150? Going to run the Mezzer on my old frame as a 150 till the new frame shows up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


It's the starting point for all of the travel settings. Gets you in the ballpark.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Fair enough.

What do you recommend for a break in service?


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

What digital shocpump are you guys using that is confirmed to work with the mezzer?


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

jmvar said:


> What digital shocpump are you guys using that is confirmed to work with the mezzer?


 What do you mean?? a shock pump is a shock pump, theyre universal. as long as the gauge is accurate...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

They aren't all very accurate though.

I'm happy with the Rockshox digital 300psi pump. Good value. Below 100psi, it indicates 0.1 increments.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

spo0n said:


> What do you mean?? a shock pump is a shock pump, theyre universal. as long as the gauge is accurate...


If you read through this thread you will see that some members have had issues with some pumps on this fork.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have had good luck with the Scott Syncros SP1 pump.

It is a digital gauge that is not unique to Scott but this particular digital gauge works well for accuracy which is important if you have a suspension part that is sensitive to a couple of PSI.

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-shock-pump-you-can-buy/13/ is a good read.

On one hand yes pumps are pumps in terms of base function but they aren't the same when it comes to precision, ease of use, etc.

The Syncros replaced a Rockshox and DVO analog pump which were fine as pumps but the precision thing was an issue for say Mezzer and a Selva dual air fork where being off 5-7 PSI isn't ideal for the settings.

YMMV and there is always someone who will pop on here about aerospace this or Formula 1 that and yeah, this isn't for a moon launch but it is useful if you have suspension bits that are sensitive to the amount of pressure used and while nobody is putting a gun to your head to get one my data point, a single data point fwiw, is that this type of pump was an improvement over the pumps I had before and those two pumps are super common catalog pumps that world+dog sell.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So I’m still trying to get a solid air setting on this fork. I’ve been going by the calculations on the spread sheet the forum made. But with those settings I feel like the fork is wallowing into the middle of the travel and is constantly sitting against the IRT and makes the ride super rough.

I’m 185 pounds and currently running 54 psi main, 68 irt, low and high speed full open. I still feel like I may need a bit more air in the main but my issue is also I’m not using anywhere near full travel. Like today I sent a 4 foot drop to a relatively flat landing and landed somewhat nose heavy and still had about 25-30 mm of unused travel.

Any setting suggestions?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> So I'm still trying to get a solid air setting on this fork. I've been going by the calculations on the spread sheet the forum made. But with those settings I feel like the fork is wallowing into the middle of the travel and is constantly sitting against the IRT and makes the ride super rough.
> 
> I'm 185 pounds and currently running 54 psi main, 68 irt, low and high speed full open. I still feel like I may need a bit more air in the main but my issue is also I'm not using anywhere near full travel. Like today I sent a 4 foot drop to a relatively flat landing and landed somewhat nose heavy and still had about 25-30 mm of unused travel.
> 
> Any setting suggestions?


What travel setting?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> What travel setting?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Sorry, 160mm


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Try 49 / 82

If you prefer the higher main pressure, go back to that and keep reducing IRT until you use an appropriate amount of travel.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Try 49 / 82
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I'll give it a shot. I had it at 48/70 and it just felt like it was sitting against the irt. My sag at that setting was like 50mm or about 35%


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I'm the same weight and here is what I'm using:

IRT - 75 psi
Dorado/lower - 42 psi
Rebound is at -5 from full closed
LSC is at -6 from full closed
HSC is at -3 from full closed

Those settings have worked pretty well and I can get full travel or close enough to full travel without needing to worry about it.

Seems to be a good blend for what I ride but versatile enough to cover my butt if I mess up or if I'm pushing something more aggressively.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

That is at both 160 and 170mm travel on the same frame (Mojo HD 4).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> They aren't all very accurate though.
> 
> I'm happy with the Rockshox digital 300psi pump. Good value. Below 100psi, it indicates 0.1 increments.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Last week I made up some adapter fittings and cross-checked all of the pumps I could find against what I considered to be the most accurate pressure gauge I had. About 8 in total.

The spread at 100psi was 10psi. Lowest reading was 95psi, highest 105psi. Most of them were 102-103psi at the reference 100psi.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

megablue said:


> So I'm still trying to get a solid air setting on this fork. I've been going by the calculations on the spread sheet the forum made. But with those settings I feel like the fork is wallowing into the middle of the travel and is constantly sitting against the IRT and makes the ride super rough.
> 
> I'm 185 pounds and currently running 54 psi main, 68 irt, low and high speed full open. I still feel like I may need a bit more air in the main but my issue is also I'm not using anywhere near full travel. Like today I sent a 4 foot drop to a relatively flat landing and landed somewhat nose heavy and still had about 25-30 mm of unused travel.
> 
> Any setting suggestions?


I hate to say it, but you probably just need to remove the extra shim from the damper. I'm 180ish and I was running 45/65 before, now i'm running 55/85 and using more travel.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

ungod said:


> I hate to say it, but you probably just need to remove the extra shim from the damper. I'm 180ish and I was running 45/65 before, now i'm running 55/85 and using more travel.


I'm going to try other settings first. I can do regular servicing but I definitely don't feel confident messing with the shim stack.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Dougal said:


> Last week I made up some adapter fittings and cross-checked all of the pumps I could find against what I considered to be the most accurate pressure gauge I had. About 8 in total.
> 
> The spread at 100psi was 10psi. Lowest reading was 95psi, highest 105psi. Most of them were 102-103psi at the reference 100psi.


Was the SYNCROS SP1.0 DIGITAL SHOCK PUMP one of them? If so how did it do?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> Was the SYNCROS SP1.0 DIGITAL SHOCK PUMP one of them? If so how did it do?


It wasn't. These were mostly GIYO type analogue pumps manufactured for Rockshox, Manitou and Fox. Oldest one was a genuine MAG 20/21 Rockshox pump.

I have an aversion to things with batteries that don't need them.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Dougal said:


> I have an aversion to things with batteries that don't need them.


Gotcha...

Seems like a digital would be required for dialing the mezzer, most pumps I've seen are 5 or 10psi per click.

How do you dial-in a couple psi on an analogue? ShockWiz in between perhaps?


----------



## Grins83 (Nov 18, 2019)

There was an interesting comparison some time ago:

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-best-shock-pump-you-can-buy/


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

megablue said:


> I'm going to try other settings first. I can do regular servicing but I definitely don't feel confident messing with the shim stack.


I've had really good luck with Manitou / Hayes customer support. I'm curious what would happen if you gave them a call (don't email). They might have some good advice, or maybe they'll give you a deal on the MY21 damper. Just a thought.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

TraxFactory said:


> Gotcha...
> 
> Seems like a digital would be required for dialing the mezzer, most pumps I've seen are 5 or 10psi per click.
> 
> How do you dial-in a couple psi on an analogue? ShockWiz in between perhaps?


I don't think it's a huge issue, I don't think I could tell a 5psi difference on my Mattoc. I've given up on digital guages. I have had two Fox ones. The first one with non replaceable battery, and the second one, which did have a replaceable battery. The problem was I kept killing the battery. I don't know if it was sweat or humidity but every time I pulled it out of my pack it was flat. So it sits at home. 
I bought a Shimano Pro pump which has the two piece attachment so that you can screw it on to the fork/shock before tightening it down to check the pressure. I haven't had any issue reading an analogue guage, and it certainly doesn't fill up at 5-10psi per click. I wish!


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

A digital gauge was one of the best investments I've made. Most of my adjustments are made by feel, so I don't even care if it's accurate...all that matters is that it's consistent.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

ungod said:


> A digital gauge was one of the best investments I've made. Most of my adjustments are made by feel, so I don't even care if it's accurate...all that matters is that it's consistent.


That's fair enough. My problem was it always going flat. No use to me on the trail, minus 5 psi to connect the pump, then is it half a psi per stroke? Again, no issue with it when it worked, but maddening how many batteries it would chew through. At least the non replaceable version lasted quite a long time before going flat.

There's no question over which was easier to read. But I think analogue is probably good to 2 psi I think.

From the sounds of it the Mezzer may be more sensitive to small changes.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I have the cane creek pump, which is the same pump as all the other digital pumps out there. I think I've had it a couple years at this point and still haven't changed the battery in it. Not sure why people are saying they go through batteries?

IME, if you pack the pump with you, it's going to take a beating. I have a feeling this takes a toll on mechanical pumps where digital pumps don't really care.

I had a Rockshox mechanical pump that was 40psi off...
No idea if it started that far off or just took too many hits in the backpack, but I don't think I'll ever buy a mechanical gauge again for this reason alone.


----------



## volcanized (Sep 23, 2008)

I had a 2015 Fox 36, custom tuned several times, ACS-3, lighter Redline 2.5wt damper oil and was still dreaming of more plushnessiocity. It was great on small bumps but bigger chunk felt rough. It was also divy on slight brake application.

So... I got a Mezzer (29, 44OS, 150mm)
*Fair warning here: I converted to a mullet so I've got a lot of changes all at once... carbon hoop, grippier tire, altered geo, AND our beloved Mezzer*

This fork grips. Plush off the top but not divey at all. I've never felt mid-stroke support like this. It's noticeably lighter too. How wonderful. But, I'll admit, I'm still chasing plush the magic dragon.

Setup:
MFG date: 2020/8/6 - It's got the updated lowers - yay!
Self: 185lbs geared up
Main: 42
IRT: 70 (higher made small bumps feel worse)
HSC: all out!
LSC: somewhere in the middle
R: somewhere in the middle towards fast

Issues: 
- I feel the top out *thunk* when manualling. I could slow the rebound but fast is fun.
- Can I get even more plushness? When dropping the front end by hand, the bike bounces off the ground. I'm used to it sticking cause the fork is plush. When riding, I may feel a little light chatter from the breakaway force but really the fork feels great while riding. I'm being picky. I feel like this fork is still a touch overdamped. 
- Haven't ridden off anything too high but I am yet to use the last inch of travel. Not really an issue. If the fork feels great and it has more room for errors, why would I complain? Still, I tried to exercise it's limit ( landing nose heavy for fun) and I'm not getting close.

Thoughts:


> ungod said:
> I hate to say it, but you probably just need to remove the extra shim from the damper. I'm 180ish and I was running 45/65 before, now i'm running 55/85 and using more travel.


I'm mechanically savy. Once I have the damper in my hand, how do I do this? If it's already been posted, please help me with the post #.

Oil. 
Semi-bath: OK Supergliss is the business. 100k generally, 68k if it gets chilly. Where do I find some of this awesomeness in the US?
Damper: I like my Redline 2.5wt but it looks to be on the muchly thin side (8 cst @40C vs Hot Pink which is 13-14 cst @40C). And really, I'd like to rely on some of the collective knowledge here vs my WAG technique. If we're talking about removing a shim, we have to talk about damper oil. Thoughts?

I think the coolest answer would be for me to shut up and ride the piss out of this fork. So maybe just do that. But if greater plushness lies just over yonder hill, I'll ride there too.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

You probably have imbalance between main and negative chamber. Thread the pump all the way in, set to your desired pressure, when unthreading do it in one go. Sometimes you can loose some air if your go too slow, so your negative has more pressure..

If you have the updated lower, I'd assume you don't have that extra shim there.

I was so excited taking that damper apart that i don't remember how I did it. Someone with more knowledge should explain this

Is the viscosity of the oil at 40 even important? I'd say my mezzer feels quite stiff "in car park" but after a downhill section is pretty plush. I think the damper oil heats up quickly so viscosity at 100 c is more important? Correct me on this 

It's around 0°c here so at last service I've put motorex 10w in the lowers. 

I also had the setup trouble where i felt like sitting on the irt and very non active feel of the fork. Sag was surely around 35 % and bottoming (at factory recommended). So I'm going up on pressures. 
Currently :
Main 73
Irt 90ish
Lsc - 4 
Hsc - 1 /-2

~176 lbs 170 mm
Can use full travel no problem 
I've removed the shim. Fox oil in damper, cause what I had (4.07 or smth vs maxima 3.5 cst @100 c) 

I'm curious, has anyone tried to run more negative than positive pressure? I generally didn't like a big difference on my ribbon but + 1 psi or so helped with chatter and bumps nicely without diving under braking 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

volcanized said:


> I had a 2015 Fox 36, custom tuned several times, ACS-3, lighter Redline 2.5wt damper oil and was still dreaming of more plushnessiocity. It was great on small bumps but bigger chunk felt rough. It was also divy on slight brake application.
> 
> So... I got a Mezzer (29, 44OS, 150mm)
> *Fair warning here: I converted to a mullet so I've got a lot of changes all at once... carbon hoop, grippier tire, altered geo, AND our beloved Mezzer*
> ...


Did you grease all moving parts before first use? 
They often are pretty dry from factory.
Grease the Air rod and piston of the irt, main air spring piston, dust wipers and put 20 ml oil in both legs


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Mudguard said:


> That's fair enough. My problem was it always going flat. No use to me on the trail, minus 5 psi to connect the pump, then is it half a psi per stroke? Again, no issue with it when it worked, but maddening how many batteries it would chew through. At least the non replaceable version lasted quite a long time before going flat.
> 
> There's no question over which was easier to read. But I think analogue is probably good to 2 psi I think.
> 
> From the sounds of it the Mezzer may be more sensitive to small changes.


It looks like you have the same one I do. I think i've replaced the batteries in it one time in the few years I've had it. I did read somewhere that someone had left theirs in the sun for too long and it started misbehaving like yours is. I try not to put mine anywhere it can get bumped around.

The 5 psi loss when connecting is the same with any of the pumps I've used. You lose a few psi to the hose and gauge. It's annoying, but I keep all my pressure numbers in a notepad app because it's almost impossible to measure pressure without altering it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

There is no fixed amount of pressure loss when connecting a pump. It depends on the ratio of volumes between the pump hose and the chamber you are connecting to. So on an IFP chamber you will lose a bunch of pressure. But on the fork main air chamber, much much less.

The best way to avoid this all together is to precharge the pump. You just wind the pump fitting on very gently until it just seats on the Schrader. It will still be indicating zero PSI at this point. Then start pumping. If air starts leaking out of the connection tighten it just a tiny bit. If you build pressure, get the pressure up to where you expect that chamber to be. Then when you wind on for the full connection you will see only a small change from your pre-charge amount to the actual chamber pressure, and you will have influence the reading very minimally.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

volcanized said:


> So... I got a Mezzer (29, 44OS, 150mm)
> 
> This fork grips. Plush off the top but not divey at all. I've never felt mid-stroke support like this. It's noticeably lighter too. How wonderful. But, I'll admit, I'm still chasing plush the magic dragon.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty surprised you have so much travel left at those settings. I would have suggested 53/87psi for 185lb rider @ 150mm travel.

What static sag are you seeing with 42/70?

The only way I can see IRT pressure affecting small bumps is if you are riding too deep in the travel. You can leave your pump hooked to the IRT chamber and push the fork into its travel, watching to see the IRT pressure rise. Using the o-ring, you can see where this occurs. Below that amount of travel, IRT pressure will have no effect.

For the top-out thunk: with the pump connected to the main chamber, push the fork through its travel a few times. It should easily compress most of the way. If it doesn't the negative chamber ports could be a little clogged up. You always want to remove the pump with the fork mostly topped out, but you can experiment with compressing it small amounts (~5mm) before disconnecting. This will soften the top out.

I think running your main pressure higher will actually help plushness, because you will be further away from the IRT ramp up, more prepared to eat up small bumps. Also, try running the HSC and LSC wide open. I like it there myself.

You shouldn't really worry about how much travel you are using, unless you are hitting features that are big for you. Tune your IRT pressure so that the biggest feature you hit, leaves you with a small travel reserve for when you botch it.


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

^^ agree with pretty much all of that, but wanted to add the observation that the 'bounce' test doesn't help me diagnose anything useful at all. a rigid bike would bounce due to the tires. pretty much anything but massively overdamped rebound should bounce, but I've never done such a test.

however the top-out thunk clearly indicates that rebound is too fast.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

CCS86 you just blew my mind with that precharged pump idea


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> CCS86 you just blew my mind with that precharged pump idea


It was really a game changer for me.

Before I started using that technique, I had charted out pressure drop for my pump on each different air chamber on my bike, for a number of different pressures.

The only other thing you can do, is to hook up the pump, write down the reading, then pump it back up to some guessed amount, disconnect and reconnect. Keep iterating until you find the fill pressure that drops down to your first reading. Real fun.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

CCS86 said:


> There is no fixed amount of pressure loss when connecting a pump. It depends on the ratio of volumes between the pump hose and the chamber you are connecting to. So on an IFP chamber you will lose a bunch of pressure. But on the fork main air chamber, much much less.
> 
> The best way to avoid this all together is to precharge the pump. You just wind the pump fitting on very gently until it just seats on the Schrader. It will still be indicating zero PSI at this point. Then start pumping. If air starts leaking out of the connection tighten it just a tiny bit. If you build pressure, get the pressure up to where you expect that chamber to be. Then when you wind on for the full connection you will see only a small change from your pre-charge amount to the actual chamber pressure, and you will have influence the reading very minimally.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


That's cool you mentioned that, I was thinking along the same lines and you just verified it. With my Syncros pump its even easier they provided a 2 step attachment. Sharader tube then pin.

It always seemed like if the pump takes 6 psi to pressurize, that would be the loss no matter which chamber you connected too....

....but because the volume/psi is different in the 2 chambers , pressurizing the pump will vary slightly and is unreliable. Good to know.

Seems like the best we can do is just use the same pump, knowing sharing numbers could potentially be off quite a bit it seems.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Mudguard said:


> I don't think it's a huge issue, I don't think I could tell a 5psi difference on my Mattoc. I've given up on digital guages. I have had two Fox ones. The first one with non replaceable battery, and the second one, which did have a replaceable battery. The problem was I kept killing the battery. I don't know if it was sweat or humidity but every time I pulled it out of my pack it was flat. So it sits at home.
> I bought a Shimano Pro pump which has the two piece attachment so that you can screw it on to the fork/shock before tightening it down to check the pressure. I haven't had any issue reading an analogue guage, and it certainly doesn't fill up at 5-10psi per click. I wish!


I have the Cane Creek and it was off 30psi from a couple older analogue gauges I had, they sent me a replacement that was much more consistent with those old guages.
That brand/model seems to be rebranded quite bit, fox included.

Never had any batteries go out in a few years of owning the digi's...

Actually the 5-10psi clicks I mentioned was reading the guage 0|10|20|30|40|50 etc..I wanted to know down to the psi..


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

TraxFactory said:


> It always seemed like if the pump takes 6 psi to pressurize, that would be the loss no matter which chamber you connected too....
> 
> ....but because the volume/psi is different in the 2 chambers , pressurizing the pump will vary slightly and is unreliable. Good to know.


Precharging the pump (as long as you are targeting something pretty close to the chamber pressure) is very consistent, regardless of chamber size.

Connecting a pump the "normal" way will give very different results depending on chamber pressure and volume.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

Any idea how to disassemble the components on the bottom end of the rebound shaft? I'm replacing the rebound adapter since SOMEONE didn't have a torque wrench on hand when installing the lowers back on.

So far I've taken it apart to the point that only the hollow D-profile extension from rebound adjuster to the rebound needle and whatever stuff is in the bottom end of the rebound shaft are in place. I'm hesitant to go any further without knowing what's in there.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Toni L said:


> Any idea how to disassemble the components on the bottom end of the rebound shaft? I'm replacing the rebound adapter since SOMEONE didn't have a torque wrench on hand when installing the lowers back on.
> 
> So far I've taken it apart to the point that only the hollow D-profile extension from rebound adjuster to the rebound needle and whatever stuff is in the bottom end of the rebound shaft are in place. I'm hesitant to go any further without knowing what's in there.
> 
> ...


10mm shaft clamp and probably vice-grips on the damaged foot. I made a special tool to take those broken ones apart. We get sent 1-2 a year.

I'll get that email back to you now.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

Toni L said:


> Any idea how to disassemble the components on the bottom end of the rebound shaft? I'm replacing the rebound adapter since SOMEONE didn't have a torque wrench on hand when installing the lowers back on.
> 
> So far I've taken it apart to the point that only the hollow D-profile extension from rebound adjuster to the rebound needle and whatever stuff is in the bottom end of the rebound shaft are in place. I'm hesitant to go any further without knowing what's in there.
> 
> ...


I didn't even think it possible to over torque the damper side. On mine, the shaft seems to just turns around on very low torque. The spring side seems much less likely to turn around and requires care when closing.


----------



## volcanized (Sep 23, 2008)

Thanks for the advice!

When I first got this fork I adjusted to 150mm travel so I had a chance to lube the IRT and main piston. As compared to what you all have said, they actually looked decently lubed. Quite a large glop of slickoleum on top of the IRT, normal amount on the main piston. There was none on the seals so I shared the love. So, this fork has been well lubed.

For the record, I generally like about 20% sag or slightly less. Any more things get divey but maybe that's not the case for the Mezzer. We'll see what feels good.

My old Rockshox pump didn't fit well over the main air port so I wasn't screwing it down far enough. After your advice, I did screw it further, the pressure equalized and the fork felt WAY better. Turns out that 42 main and 70 IRT was too soft/plush. The insane traction and control had me giggling but I couldn't push into berms without excessive diving. I hooked up the RS pump once more and couldn't get it to thread right. The pump connection kept spinning without engaging enough thread so I decided to stop adjusting on the trail. That pump was rounding off the edges of the threads on the fork. Scary. I compared it to a cheap no name and inaccurate spare pump I have at home. That pump threads on perfectly but now I don't know my pressure. I coughed up the dough for a Syncros SP1.0. For now, I won't quote my pressures since I know inaccurate to report.

Now that I've threaded the pump the whole way on, my top out issue is mostly gone. Since I removed the air spring when I first got it, and I inflated only the positive air chamber and not the negative at all, I was encouraging a harsh top out. It's operating correctly now that I'm operating correctly. From here, I'll get to my favorite tune before worrying about any top out issues. And if so, per CCS86's advise, I'll lower the fork about 5mm before disconnecting the pump. I LOVE how tunable this fork is.

From what I felt so far, I've experienced about 20% too firm and 20% too soft with crazy awesome plushness. Both feel better than my custom-tuned (and retuned, and retuned again) Fox 36 ACS-3. I've got some more tinkering to do and I'm convinced I'll nail my favorite settings reasonably soon.

Precharging the shock pump. That's new to me. I like it and will give it a go tomorrow. Simple and slick.

When I refer to dropping the bike by hand and feeling the wheel bounce, I'm comparing it to other bikes I've felt. Downhill bikes that are heavy, other bikes for lighter people, and other forks I've had before. The result is interesting at best but not useful whatsoever. Just a comment on what I noticed. People do like doing drop tests though. I find that the rebound ends up being too slow but it sure does look cool in a parking lot. Now that air is in the negative side, the front does bounce less.

Until further notice, I'd say my issues are solved!


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

I am approaching the 25 hours service, which means I have to add 5-7cc of bath oil. From what I found here, the oil that I need is Motorex 5W40 Powersynt. But I was wondering if I can use Motul Xcess 5W40 (I use this oil for my car and already have some),comparing the technical sheets from both Motorex and Motul, they are not that different, what do you guys think?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

fallenmojo said:


> I am approaching the 25 hours service, which means I have to add 5-7cc of bath oil. From what I found here, the oil that I need is Motorex 5W40 Powersynt. But I was wondering if I can use Motul Xcess 5W40 (I use this oil for my car and already have some),comparing the technical sheets from both Motorex and Motul, they are not that different, what do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 1380975


Sure looks real close (especially just 5cc worth) but I would wait for one of the lube heads to chime in 

Where do you see a service schedule for the Mezzer?

Update: Found it in the TSR_Bleed_Fitting_Service_Mezzer_4.14.20.pdf


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fallenmojo said:


> I am approaching the 25 hours service, which means I have to add 5-7cc of bath oil. From what I found here, the oil that I need is Motorex 5W40 Powersynt. But I was wondering if I can use Motul Xcess 5W40 (I use this oil for my car and already have some),comparing the technical sheets from both Motorex and Motul, they are not that different, what do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 1380975


Viscosity isn't the big thing. Slipperyness is and that's the one with no published spec.

So you'd have to try it and see.


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Rider: 155 lbs intermediate 
Bike: GG Megatrail (Mullet)
Rear Shock: 11.6


I finally got Mezzer 160mm for my Mullet Megatrail. I paired it with 11.6 at 165mm rear travel. HA came out at 63.3. A bit too slack for my local trail but it climbs well.

Anyway, I started off with the spreadsheet recommendations but bottoming out too easily on 4 ft drop to flat. I ended up at 80 IRT and 48 Main. With 3 clicks of LSC and HSC from open. Rebound in the middle. 20% sag

The fork feels plush.. plusher than my DVO diamond at 170mm. But on the same trail I was only using 70% of travel, which is fine. 

I'm looking to further optimized but I don't know where to start. I like it to be more poppy and ride tall and maintain some of the small bumps sensitivity.

I will be riding again tomorrow to further tweak the air pressures.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

noobshredur said:


> Rider: 155 lbs intermediate
> Bike: GG Megatrail (Mullet)
> Rear Shock: 11.6
> 
> ...


Go halfway between your prior air pressure and current. Keep the 1:1.5 ratio for air springs until you find a good spot to start tweaking those ratios.

Did the fork bottom harshly or just get full travel faster than you expected? I've never got a hard bottom-out from my Mezzer. The HBO stops that unless you're way undersprung.


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Go halfway between your prior air pressure and current. Keep the 1:1.5 ratio for air springs until you find a good spot to start tweaking those ratios.
> 
> Did the fork bottom harshly or just get full travel faster than you expected? I've never got a hard bottom-out from my Mezzer. The HBO stops that unless you're way undersprung.


I didn't feel the bottom out but the O ring was all the way up after landing to flat on 4ft drops. I will try increasing the main and lower IRT by 2 psi. Again the fork is so plush and supportive already that from here out its just a minor tweak. Just surprised how easy it was to set. I'm going for a ride in a few and try that.

Also, is this oil good for 25hr service?
https://hayesbicycle.com/products/maxima-5wt-fork-oil-33-8-oz-1-liter

Thanks Dougal!


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Shiny! 

These will be going on my Jeffsy CF pro race, with the Fox 36's currently on it going to my new hardtail build. The Fox transfer will be swapped out with a Rockshox Reverb AXS 200mm when they eventually release one!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

noobshredur said:


> I didn't feel the bottom out but the O ring was all the way up after landing to flat on 4ft drops. I will try increasing the main and lower IRT by 2 psi. Again the fork is so plush and supportive already that from here out its just a minor tweak. Just surprised how easy it was to set. I'm going for a ride in a few and try that.
> 
> Also, is this oil good for 25hr service?
> https://hayesbicycle.com/products/maxima-5wt-fork-oil-33-8-oz-1-liter
> ...


That's the damper oil. Not needed for lower leg service.

This is the lower leg oil: https://hayesbicycle.com/products/5-40-wt-oil-bikesemi-bath-3-5-oz-100ml


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

What is the deal with Mezzer Expert fork? I see that is cheaper, but can't find the differences between Pro and Expert.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

Expert doesn't have the IRT, but has volume spacers like fox and rockshox.
It also has the VVT damper w/ 6-position compression and rebound adjustability instead of the MC2 damper.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

hugelick said:


> Expert doesn't have the IRT, but has volume spacers like fox and rockshox.
> It also has the VVT damper w/ 6-position compression and rebound adjustability instead of the MC2 damper.


I'm glad I went with the Pro. I think the IRT really sets the Mezzer apart from the competition.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

https://www.mtb-news.de/news/beste-enduro-federgabel-2020-vergleich-test/

"Mezzer cons: cracking at the crown, harsh HSC"

LOL


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

I pulled the trigger on the Mezzer Pro LE and need to reduce to 160. Since I cannot get Motorex Supergliss here in the US, I want to buy their 5W40, but they have so many different variations of 5W40 (Boxer, Power Synthetic, Crosspower)...l have no clue which is the right one. Does anybody know? Or can I just use good old Fox Gold?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Curveball said:


> I'm glad I went with the Pro. I think the IRT really sets the Mezzer apart from the competition.


100%


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

fizzywater said:


> I pulled the trigger on the Mezzer Pro LE and need to reduce to 160. Since I cannot get Motorex Supergliss here in the US, I want to buy their 5W40, but they have so many different variations of 5W40 (Boxer, Power Synthetic, Crosspower)...l have no clue which is the right one. Does anybody know? Or can I just use good old Fox Gold?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can get the SuperGliss in US from Douglas (Shockcraft) for about $30 shipped

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Sorry, Dougal, took about 2-3 weeks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Cool. Since I bought the wrong one. I'll get supergliss from Dougal.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

fizzywater said:


> I pulled the trigger on the Mezzer Pro LE and need to reduce to 160. Since I cannot get Motorex Supergliss here in the US, I want to buy their 5W40, but they have so many different variations of 5W40 (Boxer, Power Synthetic, Crosspower)...l have no clue which is the right one. Does anybody know? Or can I just use good old Fox Gold?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


See post #2489^^.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Are you running the tall lower cup?

Replace it with short lower cup, costs ~ $40, will reduce HTA nearly a degree.



noobshredur said:


> Rider: 155 lbs intermediate
> Bike: GG Megatrail (Mullet)
> Rear Shock: 11.6
> 
> ...


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Are you running the tall lower cup?
> 
> Replace it with short lower cup, costs ~ $40, will reduce HTA nearly a degree.


Yup. Zero cup I got used from stripers. Weird head angle got to 63.3 based on my friend's reader.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Curveball said:


> See post #2489^^.


Cool. Thanks! I had been to that link before, but only now did I pay attention to the sticker on the bottle in the image which clarifies what Manitou is using..."Motorex Power Synt 4T SAE 5W/40z".

Ordered 1 liter bottle, but will take about a week for shipping.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Hi, what adapter would I need to run a 203mm rotor on the Mezzer?

I have tried 2 different adapters that are supposedly the correct ones but they space the caliper out too far.

I am running SRAM guide R brakes and sram 200 mm rotors.

Thanks


----------



## tempmeister (Nov 16, 2020)

I couldn't justify shipping Supergliss from Germany, so I did some internet research and now use Shell Tonna S3 M68, which is also a slideway oil, and more readily available in 1L bottles on eBay. You can't get 100M but I need cooler temps too, and the FZG sliding scuffing resistance is higher for Shell Tonna than Motorex Supergliss.
So far it has been good, and my friend who borrowed some reported lowest friction ever on his boxxers (subjective assessment obviously).


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

jmvar said:


> Hi, what adapter would I need to run a *203mm rotor* on the Mezzer?
> 
> I have tried 2 different adapters that are supposedly the correct ones but they space the caliper out too far.
> 
> ...


You kind of answered your own question, you need an adapter for a 200mm rotor, not 203mm. The Mezzer is setup for 180mm disc, so you need a 20mm adapter.

A 160 to 180 post to post adapter is what you need. Hope makes the best ones, in general, not sure they work with Code calipers though. They move the caliper in two directions (separate bolts for frame and caliper) and fit around the caliper more the a normal adapter does to make them stiffer and more compact.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I checked last night and my fork has a 2019 build date. It looks like I'll need to remove a shim for my light weight. That'll be real fun considering how clumsy I am. I'll likely need to buy some new tools too.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

nikon255 said:


> https://www.mtb-news.de/news/beste-enduro-federgabel-2020-vergleich-test/
> 
> "Mezzer cons: cracking at the crown, harsh HSC"
> 
> LOL


Their overall review/verdict of the Mezzer is actually very very good and they do say in terms of pure performance, adjustability and ease of use it is as good if not better than the other forks in that test. The key reasons they didn't consider it for top spot were creaking (not cracking) at crown/stanchion and bushing issue (which they encountered in a prior test with the Mezzer), in essence due to QC concerns. They do mention somewhat harsh HSC when fully closed, but more in the sense that they feel HSC adjustment should be more gradual/granular. Lastly, they also point out that riders approaching 60 kg or lighter, may have difficulties finding a good setup with the standard valving . Otherwise, a super positive review.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

I may have missed it in this thread, but when did Manitou start producing the Mezzers with with updated shims? Mine has a 8/2020 build date.



Curveball said:


> I check last night and my fork has a 2019 build date. It looks like I'll need to remove a shim for my light weight. That'll be real fun considering how clumsy I am. I'll likely need to buy some new tools too.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

bigdrunk said:


> I may have missed it in this thread, but when did Manitou start producing the Mezzers with with updated shims? Mine has a 8/2020 build date.


Dougal would likely know. That's new enough that it might be a MY2021.

I'll likely just ride it with open HSC and LSC until the 20-hour service in the spring. It's too chilly for much bike work around here in the winter.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bigdrunk said:


> I may have missed it in this thread, but when did Manitou start producing the Mezzers with with updated shims? Mine has a 8/2020 build date.


I still don't know and I haven't checked which tune is in my new Mezzer LE .

But if your fork feels harsh on rough stuff at speed, you've got the extra shim.


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Where does one find their production date on their Mezzer? Just curious. I got mine installed today, so hopefully tomorrow after work I can break her in!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davist12 said:


> Where does one find their production date on their Mezzer? Just curious. I got mine installed today, so hopefully tomorrow after work I can break her in!


Sticker on the end of the fork box.


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

mike156 said:


> You kind of answered your own question, you need an adapter for a 200mm rotor, not 203mm. The Mezzer is setup for 180mm disc, so you need a 20mm adapter.
> 
> A 160 to 180 post to post adapter is what you need. Hope makes the best ones, in general, not sure they work with Code calipers though. They move the caliper in two directions (separate bolts for frame and caliper) and fit around the caliper more the a normal adapter does to make them stiffer and more compact.


I just did the same thing with a 203mm rotor. I had an issue with the caliper rubbing on the top of the rotor. Had to put a small washer, about 3mm underneath the mount and on top of the fork post mounts and it worked perfectly. Keep an eye on that!


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

On the box. 10-27-20 on my new LE.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Sticker on the end of the fork box.


Thank you!


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Sticker on the end of the fork box.


Another question Dougal, about service on the fork. I've been reading through this forum and the 25 hours service I've seen on here says to at 5-7cc of bath oil to the lowers. Do I just pull the off lowers, keeping level and add the oil to each? Why this as opposed to dropping the lowers and adding fresh oil?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davist12 said:


> Another question Dougal, about service on the fork. I've been reading through this forum and the 25 hours service I've seen on here says to at 5-7cc of bath oil to the lowers. Do I just pull the off lowers, keeping level and add the oil to each? Why this as opposed to dropping the lowers and adding fresh oil?


If you have the bleed ports you just squirt it through there. It means you can keep the fork on the bike.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> If you have the bleed ports you just squirt it through there. It means you can keep the fork on the bike.


That reminds me that I should open the bleed ports because who knows what the pressure differential is between the warehouse and me.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Received a 27.5 mezzer I purchased during the Black Friday sale. Just wanted to double check with the group in here to make sure the fork I received has the latest lowers with bleed ports and hopefully no bushing issues?

I'm coming from a mattoc 2016 and that fork has developed a noticeable amount of bushing play. 









Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Dougal said:


> If you have the bleed ports you just squirt it through there. It means you can keep the fork on the bike.


I have been trying to inject some Supergliss (from you) into the ports tonight and it really does not want to go in. 
I can get a decent seal with a syringe screwed in, but I just seem to creating a lot of pressure and it just wants to squirt back into the syringe, or out. 
Any tips?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mobilenemo said:


> Received a 27.5 mezzer I purchased during the Black Friday sale. Just wanted to double check with the group in here to make sure the fork I received has the latest lowers with bleed ports and hopefully no bushing issues?


You're good.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

MsvSpaz said:


> I have been trying to inject some Supergliss (from you) into the ports tonight and it really does not want to go in.
> I can get a decent seal with a syringe screwed in, but I just seem to creating a lot of pressure and it just wants to squirt back into the syringe, or out.
> Any tips?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You inject lower leg oil, not grease.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> You inject lower leg oil, not grease.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Supergliss is lower leg oil.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

MsvSpaz said:


> Supergliss is lower leg oil.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't have the fork, but here's an educated guess.

Open the ports and compress, air should be forced out. If no air comes out, check you have opened properly. Allow the fork to extend with the syringe there. The vacuum should draw it in. Repeat until all oil in.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

MsvSpaz said:


> Supergliss is lower leg oil.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Doh, that's what I get for replying right after I roll out of bed. In my head, you were using Slickoleum. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Doh, that's what I get for replying right after I roll out of bed. In my head, you were using Slickoleum.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Haha, yeah I could definitely see the issue trying to blast 5cc of Slicko in there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mobilenemo said:


> Received a 27.5 mezzer I purchased during the Black Friday sale. Just wanted to double check with the group in here to make sure the fork I received has the latest lowers with bleed ports and hopefully no bushing issues?
> 
> I'm coming from a mattoc 2016 and that fork has developed a noticeable amount of bushing play.
> 
> ...


That's the exact same fork and date as mine.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Got to ride the Mezzer today. Felt pretty brilliant straight out of the box. It was a little too firm deeper in the travel through the rough than it should be. I assume less irt pressure is the easiest solution?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Got to ride the Mezzer today. Felt pretty brilliant straight out of the box. It was a little too firm deeper in the travel through the rough than it should be. I assume less irt pressure is the easiest solution?


What was your HSC setting?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Has anyone found an aftermarket fender that works well with the mezzer’s reverse arch? The stock fender was pretty flimsy and ended up breaking pretty early on for me in normal use. Most fender that I found don’t seem to work well with this design. Curious if others have made something aftermarket work for them


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jcmonty said:


> Has anyone found an aftermarket fender that works well with the mezzer's reverse arch? The stock fender was pretty flimsy and ended up breaking pretty early on for me in normal use. Most fender that I found don't seem to work well with this design. Curious if others have made something aftermarket work for them


The Mudhugger Shorty should work with the Mezzer. I have one on my Mattoc and it's been flawless, I did a couple of extra holes just to add extra security and make it more conformed to the arch.
Been thinking in getting another one for the Mezzer because it has a bigger coverage and seems less prone to damage.
If you want I can post some pics later of the one I have on the Mattoc.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

I received a pair of V3 replacement lowers from Hayes and while back and finally managed to get a few rides on them. The bushing noise/feeling is terrible and makes the bike virtually unrideable.
I took the other pair off my other bike that were set at 140mm from new. I put these up to 180mm and also now had bushing knocking. These are also the V3 lowers. 
2x pairs and both no good is pretty unlucky. 
Looks like I'm going to have to try and get 2x pairs out of Hayes. Have people had much luck lately?


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Hey everyone! 

just took my Mezzer pro for my first ride yesterday and it was amazing. So plush but supportive in the midstroke. So happy I went with the. Mezzer compared to RS or a Fox. 

Question about the lower bath oil, when doing my travel change, some dripped out and I didn’t top it off since I didn’t have any. The fork rode just fine and I didn’t notice anything but I wanna drop the lowers and add the correct amount of oil as well as lube the IRT piston. 

The Manitou branded oil is out of stock everywhere it seems but I’ve seen else where that it’s similar to Maxima 5wt? The 85-150 it seems? Will that work or just wait for the manitou one to come in stock again. 

another question on grease and service, when I did my travel change, I didn’t lube up the air shaft or anything, just the seal head with slick-honey and that was it. Didn’t see any videos saying to do so. Do you guys recommend doing that as well?

Thanks!


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Anyone know the thread size and pitch of the bleed screws on the lowers? 

Evolution Training Cycles


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I've seen 5x0.8mm referenced in the bleeders.

Davist12, you are going to want to lube the air spring, shaft, IRT... Everything needs grease on there. You can mix oil and grease into a paste too.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

It really is a beautiful fork. 
Have an LE in my garage waiting for my new frame and it's so nice looking. 
Think I'll save it for the new frame although it's awfully tempting to mount it up now. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

TraxFactory said:


> What was your HSC setting?
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


Fully open


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Got my Mezzer LE installed.

170mm, 27". Damper appears to have the softer tune in it but I bolted in my previous one that was specially tuned for me.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rupps5 said:


> Anyone know the thread size and pitch of the bleed screws on the lowers?
> 
> Evolution Training Cycles


M5 (which as Mike said is 0.8mm pitch). Same fittings to bleed Shimano brakes, RS Reverb posts and Mara rear shocks.

Manitou has a part number for a bleed syringe, but I don't know if they've shipped any yet.


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

What is a good oil alternative for the lowers on the Mezzer pro? The Manitou semi bath oil is out of stock and I’d like to get some to keep around. Is the Maxima 85-150 the same?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davist12 said:


> What is a good oil alternative for the lowers on the Mezzer pro? The Manitou semi bath oil is out of stock and I'd like to get some to keep around. Is the Maxima 85-150 the same?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541-13.html#post15119887

85-150 is the damper oil, not the bath oil.
I use supergliss for bath oil. You can use Fox Gold or RS0W30 in a pinch for bath oil.


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Dougal said:


> https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mezzer-1102541-13.html#post15119887
> 
> 85-150 is the damper oil, not the bath oil.
> I use supergliss for bath oil. You can use Fox Gold or RS0W30 in a pinch for bath oil.


Will there be a difference in performance/feel if I used Supergliss, Fox gold or RS0W30 compared to what Manitou suggests?

EDIT: I ordered Motorex Power Synt 4T 5W40 oil from cyclegear since it's what's stated on the manitou branded bottle for semi bath fluid. It seems to be the exact same. We'll see.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Was going to try and save my new Mezzer for the new frame but then reasoned that getting it dialed in now where I can compare it on the same bike might be helpful.
The Mezzer Pro LE with axle & cut steerer weighed EXACTLY what the Yari with an Avy cartridge weighed. To the gram. 
I actually suspect the paint from the LE treatment added a solid 60 grams or so. Oh well.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Was going to try and save my new Mezzer for the new frame but then reasoned that getting it dialed in now where I can compare it on the same bike might be helpful.
> The Mezzer Pro LE with axle & cut steerer weighed EXACTLY what the Yari with an Avy cartridge weighed. To the gram.
> I actually suspect the paint from the LE treatment added a solid 60 grams or so. Oh well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


My LE (27") was 2070g uncut with axle but no mud-guard. I haven't dug out the weights from my original 27" Mezzer but I think it was around 2030g.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Was going to try and save my new Mezzer for the new frame but then reasoned that getting it dialed in now where I can compare it on the same bike might be helpful.
> The Mezzer Pro LE with axle & cut steerer weighed EXACTLY what the Yari with an Avy cartridge weighed. To the gram.
> I actually suspect the paint from the LE treatment added a solid 60 grams or so. Oh well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Paint? I just assumed they were polished and clear coated.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Any thoughts on the newly released Expert? What do folks think about the expert damper?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Mezzer Expert has officially launched.
3/4 the price, same chassis but a simpler damper and air-spring. Interestingly the weight is about the same.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Hey guys, I've been doing some more research lately on what fork I want to go with for my Megatower dream build. And I thought I had it narrowed down, but now have seen a few more forks that seem to be amazing, but not many reviews or many people talking about them. I was looking at the Lyrik Ultimate and the Meezer Pro as the two main choices. But I also have been reading and seeing more about this DVO Onyx SC 1 and now the new Meezer Expert. 

So first of all, why is the new Expert fork cheaper than the Pro, when the Expert has the amazing ability to simply adjust the travel of the fork without having to buy a new damper?! That seems like an AMAZING feature... and something that would cost a lot more money. Yet the Expert is $200 less. And then I see Dougal saying the Expert is basically the same but with a simpler damper and air spring. So what exactly does that mean? And what kind of specific differences in adjustability and performance would you see between the two forks? And how much would it cost to add the better damper and spring later if you wanted too? And does the Pro have more adjustability than the Expert, or are they the same? And if I went with the Expert, would I be able to add on more adjustability?

Then I have another question about this quote from someone else on here: "The key reasons they didn’t consider it for top spot were creaking (not cracking) at crown/stanchion and bushing issue (which they encountered in a prior test with the Mezzer), in essence due to QC concerns." Is there still creaking in the crown/stanchion area? And same for the bushing issue? Just wondering if those problems are still an issue or resolved? Or never were really an issue to begin with and the reviewers just got 1 bad fork?

And in general, how easy is it to get a Meezer service and tuned? I think I've read that Manitou's are easier than most forks/shocks to work on yourself. Which is nice for down the road when I know a lot more about this stuff. But what about sending them off to Avalanche or Vorsprung? Can they service the Meezer just as easily as a RS/Fox? And can they do a custom tune for the fork same as a RS or Fox? Or do you have to send it to Manitou for service and tuning? 

Thanks


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

All Mezzer models have the travel adjust feature included. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Hey guys, I've been doing some more research lately on what fork I want to go with for my Megatower dream build. And I thought I had it narrowed down, but now have seen a few more forks that seem to be amazing, but not many reviews or many people talking about them. I was looking at the Lyrik Ultimate and the Meezer Pro as the two main choices. But I also have been reading and seeing more about this DVO Onyx SC 1 and now the new Meezer Expert.
> 
> So first of all, why is the new Expert fork cheaper than the Pro, when the Expert has the amazing ability to simply adjust the travel of the fork without having to buy a new damper?! That seems like an AMAZING feature... and something that would cost a lot more money. Yet the Expert is $200 less. And then I see Dougal saying the Expert is basically the same but with a simpler damper and air spring. So what exactly does that mean? And what kind of specific differences in adjustability and performance would you see between the two forks? And how much would it cost to add the better damper and spring later if you wanted too? And does the Pro have more adjustability than the Expert, or are they the same? And if I went with the Expert, would I be able to add on more adjustability?
> 
> ...


FWIW, the Mezzer doesn't need its damper massaged by a custom tuner like a RS or Fox to work properly.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Davist12 said:


> Question about the lower bath oil, when doing my travel change, some dripped out and I didn't top it off since I didn't have any. The fork rode just fine and I didn't notice anything but I wanna drop the lowers and add the correct amount of oil as well as lube the IRT piston.


Did you try eBay? I'm assuming you are looking for 85-0022 Manitou Maxima Semi-Bath Fork Oil (5w40wt). They sell em for 14-15$ for 100ml. The lowers don't take much semi bath oil at all - 20cc per leg. So even the 100ml will last at least two seasons. Albeit, sounds like people are making this too complicated, pretty sure using Fox Gold 20wt or even what's spec'd for Rock Shox forks for semi bath will work just fine.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Davist12 said:


> another question on grease and service, when I did my travel change, I didn't lube up the air shaft or anything, just the seal head with slick-honey and that was it. Didn't see any videos saying to do so. Do you guys recommend doing that as well?


This was the video I checked out for changing travel - fairly straight forward. Air seal just needs a bit slickoleum which came with the fork in a little packet. That's all that's needed.


----------



## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

FYI this is the assembly 
you get when ordering a rebound adapter (141-36713-K034) for a Mezzer. No need to disassemble the rebound adjuster/clicker components










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> All Mezzer models have the travel adjust feature included.


Oh man! That is KILLER! Thanks



Curveball said:


> FWIW, the Mezzer doesn't need its damper massaged by a custom tuner like a RS or Fox to work properly.


Can you explain why please?

And can anyone explain what the differences between the Pro and Expert are exactly? And what performance pros and cons there are with each fork? Thanks


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

If this is a "dream build", just get the Pro. The IRT alone is worth it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Oh man! That is KILLER! Thanks
> 
> Can you explain why please?
> 
> And can anyone explain what the differences between the Pro and Expert are exactly? And what performance pros and cons there are with each fork? Thanks


The dampers pretty much suck in the big name forks. The Mezzer has a good damper. Depending on weight and riding style you may need to add a thiker shim, or remove one. But its easy to do and probably not nessasary.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

SuperWookie said:


> And can anyone explain what the differences between the Pro and Expert are exactly? And what performance pros and cons there are with each fork? Thanks


Pro has separate hi and lo speed compression adjusters and a more sophisticated damper instead of a single compression adjuster. Pro has IRT chamber in the air spring which allows for a more linear spring curve instead of the basic volume adjustment of the expert (and almost every other air fork out there). Everything else is pretty much the same.

Pro will have more tuning options and a wider range of setup and performance capabilities. It will also be more difficult to setup due to there being more ways to get it wrong. That said, if you follow their guide and ask for advice, you will be able to get it to work quite well, and it should be better than the expert once you get into a setup you like.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> If this is a "dream build", just get the Pro. The IRT alone is worth it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I was lucky to catch a sale and get the Pro for the Expert price.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Curveball said:


> I was lucky to catch a sale and get the Pro for the Expert price.


Dang... nice! When and where?

I need to keep an eye out for sales. I'm building a "dream bike" but still on a budget. It can't be completely out of control. Down the road, I'll be able to afford more expensive additions if I want, but for now, I'm only spending big on a few critical parts I don't want to upgrade later on (frame, suspension and drivetrain and getting good wheelset/hubs. Might upgrade to even better wheels/hubs later, we'll see).


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Dang... nice! When and where?
> 
> I need to keep an eye out for sales. I'm building a "dream bike" but still on a budget. It can't be completely out of control. Down the road, I'll be able to afford more expensive additions if I want, but for now, I'm only spending big on a few critical parts I don't want to upgrade later on (frame, suspension and drivetrain and getting good wheelset/hubs. Might upgrade to even better wheels/hubs later, we'll see).


It was directly through the Hayes/Manitou site a couple of weeks ago. I was considering a Mezzer and when the sale happened I jumped on it.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Curveball said:


> It was directly through the Hayes/Manitou site a couple of weeks ago. I was considering a Mezzer and when the sale happened I jumped on it.


Damn! Good to know, I'll keep an eye out there and on Jenson every week from now on then. I have ALL winter and spring to buy the parts for the bike and I'm in NO hurry. So I've got plenty of time to look for deals. Thanks


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Pretty sure Worldwide Cyclery has the Pro listed for $750.
Also Dirt Merchants runs classified ads on PB and sells them new there. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Pretty sure Worldwide Cyclery has the Pro listed for $750.
> Also Dirt Merchants runs classified ads on PB and sells them new there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Oh boy, I'd jump on that deal from WWC.


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Was going to try and save my new Mezzer for the new frame but then reasoned that getting it dialed in now where I can compare it on the same bike might be helpful.
> The Mezzer Pro LE with axle & cut steerer weighed EXACTLY what the Yari with an Avy cartridge weighed. To the gram.
> I actually suspect the paint from the LE treatment added a solid 60 grams or so. Oh well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


So I have to ask, why go air if it's the same weight as a coil?


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

TwoTone said:


> So I have to ask, why go air if it's the same weight as a coil?


He's on an air spring currently with Avy damper. The damper isn't as heavy as everyone says.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> So I have to ask, why go air if it's the same weight as a coil?


I had the Avy Hybrid kit ordered to add to my Avy Yari but I canceled it. The Hybrid kit addition adds about 200 grams. 
That said, I was surprised the forks weighed the same however in their current configuration.
I think highly of both the Avy and the Mezzer. But i dig the looks of the Mezzer, weight, adjustability, & tech so it was a good time to try something different for a bit. 
I want to test the Mezzer back to back to the Avy Yari.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> I had the Avy Hybrid kit ordered to add to my Avy Yari but I canceled it. The Hybrid kit addition adds about 200 grams.
> That said, I was surprised the forks weighed the same however in their current configuration.
> I think highly of both the Avy and the Mezzer. But i dig the looks of the Mezzer, weight, adjustability, & tech so it was a good time to try something different for a bit.
> I want to test the Mezzer back to back to the Avy Yari.
> ...


I misunderstood, I thought I read you had the hybrid already- makes sense.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Pretty sure Worldwide Cyclery has the Pro listed for $750.
> Also Dirt Merchants runs classified ads on PB and sells them new there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Nope. It's still full price AND out of stock, thanks for the heads up though. Guess I need to make it a daily check from now on. 1 Get up and go to work 2. Check all the websites to see if the best enduro fork in the world is on sale, hahaha


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

Dirt Merchants has the latest Mezzer Pros in stock. Just got mine a couple days ago and it was manufactured late September 2020. They have great prices and service is top notch. He's on pinkbike like others mentioned. They are my go to shop for suspension purchases.


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Travel change done on my Mezzer Pro LE from 180mm to 160mm, very simple really! Now dry fitted to my Jeffsy, just need to trim the steerer once I have some daylight time free.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Sanity check on putting damper back together after removing the extra 17.5 mm shim. The extra shim is above the rest of the shims.

Am I putting this back together in the correct order and orientation for all the pieces? Thanks


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

ScottieM8 said:


> Dirt Merchants has the latest Mezzer Pros in stock. Just got mine a couple days ago and it was manufactured late September 2020. They have great prices and service is top notch. He's on pinkbike like others mentioned. They are my go to shop for suspension purchases.


I looked them up on Pinkbike and bookmarked them. They've got lots of good stuff for sale. Might spend the little extra over budget I had planned and get some Hayes A4 Dominion brakes as well! Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> I looked them up on Pinkbike and bookmarked them. They've got lots of good stuff for sale. Might spend the little extra over budget I had planned and get some Hayes A4 Dominion brakes as well! Thanks for the heads up!


Oh man, I put the Dominion A4's on my bike. That may be the best bike upgrade that I've ever done. I absolutely love those brakes! I'm astounded at how great they work on steep, wet, sloppy PNW trails. Total control in total crap conditions.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jmvar said:


> Sanity check on putting damper back together after removing the extra 17.5 mm shim. The extra shim is above the rest of the shims.
> 
> Am I putting this back together in the correct order and orientation for all the pieces? Thanks
> View attachment 1907041


I'm going to be doing the same thing to my fork. How difficult is it? Are there instructions available somewhere?


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Curveball said:


> I'm going to be doing the same thing to my fork. How difficult is it? Are there instructions available somewhere?


I can put something together as soon as I can confirm that I have shim stack, spring, and cup order and orientation correct.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jmvar said:


> I can put something together as soon as I can confirm that I have shim stack, spring, and cup order and orientation correct.


Thank you very much. I'd definitely appreciate that.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Manitou should include a single 5mm pacman spacer so we can fine tune the travel/ geo we prefer. 
I'd like to test 155mm travel. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> Manitou should include a single 5mm pacman spacer so we can find tune the travel/ geo we prefer.
> I'd like to test 155mm travel.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Shave 2.5mm off either side of the supplied spacers?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

SuperWookie said:


> I looked them up on Pinkbike and bookmarked them. They've got lots of good stuff for sale. Might spend the little extra over budget I had planned and get some Hayes A4 Dominion brakes as well! Thanks for the heads up!


I've had great luck with dirt merchants in the past, but they couldn't match "the death projects" prices on either the Mezzer or the Dominion brakes, so I went with him instead (also on pinkbike). Saved me about $60 on a Dominion setup with rotors and spacers over what everyone else wanted.


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

I have bought from Dirt Merchants and Death Projects. Death Projects does have the best prices.


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

jmvar said:


> I can put something together as soon as I can confirm that I have shim stack, spring, and cup order and orientation correct.


I'd be interested in some instructions too if you get something together.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

springs said:


> Shave 2.5mm off either side of the supplied spacers?


I don't have access to a milling machine but I might attempt to just shave it on a flat surface using sandpaper or something.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

jmvar said:


> Sanity check on putting damper back together after removing the extra 17.5 mm shim. The extra shim is above the rest of the shims.
> 
> Am I putting this back together in the correct order and orientation for all the pieces? Thanks


Looks correct to me.

Make sure the shim between the spring and the spring collar doesn't get trapped between the basevalve and the shaft.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

If anyone wants 5mm spacers, PM me. I can make them.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> I don't have access to a milling machine but I might attempt to just shave it on a flat surface using sandpaper or something.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


You could always deliberately overinflate the negative chamber to suck the fork down an additional 5mm. That's super easy.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

elsinore said:


> You could always deliberately overinflate the negative chamber to suck the fork down an additional 5mm. That's super easy.


Sure, but then the ratio of positive to negative pressure is altered, which effects 100% of the travel, instead of just the ride height. 
It's a good suggestion, just not sure it's the best solution.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

Motion pro micro bleeders fit pretty well but the threads need to be cut down a little. Don't know if they are necessary until some riding is done with them. But they are cool nonetheless.

AND these are new 29er lowers for a mullet build.










Evolution Training Cycles


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Is the squishing sound normal when I compress the fork? It's around 30 degrees F right now.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jmvar said:


> Sanity check on putting damper back together after removing the extra 17.5 mm shim. The extra shim is above the rest of the shims.
> 
> Am I putting this back together in the correct order and orientation for all the pieces? Thanks
> View attachment 1907041


That looks right. The shims on top and bottom of the spring are to stop it eating the aluminium seats.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ungod said:


> Paint? I just assumed they were polished and clear coated.


I suspect polishing the pocketed cast brace would be the show-stopper there. Possibly also getting a match between the polished aluminium crown and magnesium lowers.
Then you've got the longevity of clear-coated polished aluminium. It looks great until you break the clear coat.


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Fork all fitted and base settings, set. The rebound is really fast on these, on my 150mm Fox 36 Grip 2 to get decent small bump I was running it at 2 clicks from fully open on LSR, and 3 from closed on HSR. On the Mezzer I'm at 3 from closed at 62psi main chamber and 90psi IRT (85kg weight) at 160mm. And tbh it still feels a little quick for LSR. Sag seems about right at 62psi, I may go a little less once I've had a chance to actually ride it. I really need a digital shock pump for this fork though, seeing at 4 psi makes a big difference in the main chamber. My current pump needle is about 3psi wide itself!!!


----------



## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

For me it’s the contrary, in the cold I’m running the rebound fully open @ 95kg and correlating spring rate. It feels plenty quick while the bike is warm but once outside at ~0 c everything slows down considerably. Seems to slow down more than any other fork I’ve ridden before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

rupps5 said:


> Motion pro micro bleeders fit pretty well but the threads need to be cut down a little. Don't know if they are necessary until some riding is done with them. But they are cool nonetheless.
> 
> AND these are new 29er lowers for a mullet build.
> 
> ...


Very cool! I'm also trying a mullet set up. Is the size for those bleeders M5x.08 by chance?


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

OK that spreadsheet is a godsend. Have adjusted based on that and will start on:

47 main
80 irt
HSC 3 from closed
LSC 4 from open
LSR 6 from closed

160mm, 180lbs with normal clothes on so a few more with riding kit. 

Must remember to lift up the forks when removing the pump, didn't do it first time and had lost 20mm of travel, with just the bike weight on the forks. 

Won't get a chance to ride now until after Christmas, work getting in the way!


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

TallPaul_S said:


> OK that spreadsheet is a godsend. Have adjusted based on that and will start on:


Where is this spreadsheet?


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

TraxFactory said:


> Where is this spreadsheet?


Here: Mezzer User Setups


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Ordered my Mezzer Pro 29 from Dirt Merchants! The death project place had it for retail, and Dirt Merchants was a lot less! Great fast responses and they already sent it out and I will get it this week! Thanks for the info everyone and glad to be part of the Manitou Mezzer fork crew, haha. If this fork is even half as good as all these videos/articles/and you guys are saying, I'll be extremely happy. I'll have to post photos in the spring when my bike is all done and put together!


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

Hi guys....

Was doing a lowers service. Thought id dried out all my oil. No oil cam eout of the the air leg as expected, but a decent amount popped out of the damper leg.

Look here, looks like an oring protruding out where the fancy tool is supposed to go in to the cap on the damper side...

Diagnosis?


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

I am looking for some riding comparision between the Mezzer and the Fox 36 2021, target travel is 160mm. I do not know which one I should take. Somebody can help?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

adamxrt said:


> Hi guys....
> 
> Was doing a lowers service. Thought id dried out all my oil. No oil cam eout of the the air leg as expected, but a decent amount popped out of the damper leg.
> 
> ...


I ran in to this sort of a thing a month or so ago.

Contacted Manitou as my Mezzer was making a horrible squeaking noise all of a sudden around the seal area.

The diagnosis was the oil I was using (WPL 20) was too thick and was migrating up past that white disc.

Remedy was to use a lighter oil and if you wade through this thread a couple of people have drilled some small holes in this plastic disc on the damper side to help with this.


----------



## adamxrt (May 12, 2015)

silentG said:


> I ran in to this sort of a thing a month or so ago.
> 
> Contacted Manitou as my Mezzer was making a horrible squeaking noise all of a sudden around the seal area.
> 
> ...


i removed the entire damper assembly and it appears that that o-ring doesnt really do anything??? sure theres no oil up behind that white disc anyway as thats the badder assembly up there?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Picture of LE Mezzer on my new bike just cause. 
I also bolted the Mezzer to my old Mondraker before this new frame arrived and the sheer bulk of the stanchions combined with the color looked horribly out of place on the svelte and brightly colored Mondraker. However it looks perfect installed on the much chunkier Evo.
It's not a real test ride but it's a real Cadillac set at the Manitou recommended settings compared to my old Avy Yari. Whether this is good or not, I can't say but it certainly won't hurt these aging wrists.









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

adamxrt said:


> i removed the entire damper assembly and it appears that that o-ring doesnt really do anything??? sure theres no oil up behind that white disc anyway as thats the badder assembly up there?


That would mean you were low on oil.

On mine pulling the damper leg down caused a bunch of oil to run down past that disc. If you don't have oil up past the disc toward the CSU end of the fork then this wasn't the case versus not having enough oil in the entire damper side leg it that makes sense.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

With the help of a couple forum members I have put together this guide to remove the extra 17.5 mm shim for the Mezzer Pro.

I am not a suspension expert by any means. This is not an extensive guide and assumes knowledge and tools. Proceed at your own risk. You will need the "Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide" posted here and on the Manitou site as a supplement.

I don't think all the Mezzers have this extra 17.5 mm shim, I know mine did. I was feeling that the fork was a bit harsh and I am hoping this resolves my issue. I have not had a chance to ride the fork after the change and will report back when I get a chance to try it out.

guide: Meet Google Drive - One place for all your files

service doc: Meet Google Drive - One place for all your files


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Lutsch said:


> I am looking for some riding comparision between the Mezzer and the Fox 36 2021, target travel is 160mm. I do not know which one I should take. Somebody can help?


Get the Mezzer. I tried my buddies 2021 36 on my Ripmo AF before ordering a Mezzer and I like the Mezzer SO MUCH MORE. I feel like I'm ruining more sag since I run lower air pressure in the lower chamber but the mid stroke support is so much more apparent. It's very soft off the top for me and I charge hard and have yet to bottom out, which I prefer. The Fox felt harsh off the top and dead in the mid stroke, to me at least. The Mezzer feels more lively, but also planted when it's chunk I'm running through. You can't go wrong with either, but the Mezzer is cheaper, or, at least I got mine for cheaper with the Black Friday deal they had. The reverse arch is cool too since it keeps the seals a little cleaner compared to standard for design.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Is the spreadsheet fucky for anyone else? Wasnt like that last night


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Is the spreadsheet fucky for anyone else? Wasnt like that last night


Looks like someone made some format changes. I'm on my phone right now, so I can't really tell what's broken.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Apart from some rows that where collapsed (already expanded), and maybe one or two new sheets, not seeing anything different. But I can be wrong.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Ok so mezzer arrived yesterday, plenty of lube in the lowers and in foam rings, and plenty of slickoleum on the irt piston. Pretty stoked on it, can't wait to ride it

Also can i just say: This fork is a pleasure to work on, no hitting things with hammers or ground down 32mm sockets... No buying new air shafts is nice too


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Davist12 said:


> Get the Mezzer. I tried my buddies 2021 36 on my Ripmo AF before ordering a Mezzer and I like the Mezzer SO MUCH MORE. I feel like I'm ruining more sag since I run lower air pressure in the lower chamber but the mid stroke support is so much more apparent. It's very soft off the top for me and I charge hard and have yet to bottom out, which I prefer. The Fox felt harsh off the top and dead in the mid stroke, to me at least. The Mezzer feels more lively, but also planted when it's chunk I'm running through. You can't go wrong with either, but the Mezzer is cheaper, or, at least I got mine for cheaper with the Black Friday deal they had. The reverse arch is cool too since it keeps the seals a little cleaner compared to standard for design.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the advice. Price point is not existing, I have a good deal for a F36 so at the end the Fox will be only slightly more expensive.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The Mezzer has a better damper, better air spring and better chassis.

IMO the only reason to buy the F36 is because the Kashima matches your switch link. To be honest we see that a fair bit.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

spo0n said:


> Ok so mezzer arrived yesterday, plenty of lube in the lowers and in foam rings, and plenty of slickoleum on the irt piston. Pretty stoked on it, can't wait to ride it
> 
> Also can i just say: This fork is a pleasure to work on, no hitting things with hammers or ground down 32mm sockets... No buying new air shafts is nice too


Exactly! Great to ride and easy to service. Sunday gonna go for first ride since I got my shipment of Supergliss 100k from Dougal and did my lower service 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ccolagio (Apr 15, 2020)

A few questions - thank you all in advance for the feedback and this great resource of info!

So I've gone through a few dozen pages of this thread but still haven't come across a link to this excel sheet of setting that I've seen mentioned. Can someone please link it for me?
I saw the post on removing the "extra 17.5mm shim." I came across the how-to guide that was written. But I never came across as to why someone would want/need to remove this shim? Can someone please explain?
Also I originally came here to ask for advice on a shock pump: digital vs mechanical. I found a few posts mentioning here that riders go either way. I've read that a few PSI makes a big difference so I'm just going to go ahead and assume I need to be more accurate than +/- ~6psi from my wonky mechanical pump. My question is, I have a Topeak SmartGuage D2 tire pressure gauge that I love. Anyone have any experience in using a digital tire pressure gauge to get the IRT/Main dialed into the 1psi +/- range? Will a tire pressure gauge work for this?


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

1- its on the previous page, 130, post #2596


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

ccolagio said:


> A few questions - thank you all in advance for the feedback and this great resource of info!
> 
> So I've gone through a few dozen pages of this thread but still haven't come across a link to this excel sheet of setting that I've seen mentioned. Can someone please link it for me?
> I saw the post on removing the "extra 17.5mm shim." I came across the how-to guide that was written. But I never came across as to why someone would want/need to remove this shim? Can someone please explain?
> Also I originally came here to ask for advice on a shock pump: digital vs mechanical. I found a few posts mentioning here that riders go either way. I've read that a few PSI makes a big difference so I'm just going to go ahead and assume I need to be more accurate than +/- ~6psi from my wonky mechanical pump. My question is, I have a Topeak SmartGuage D2 tire pressure gauge that I love. Anyone have any experience in using a digital tire pressure gauge to get the IRT/Main dialed into the 1psi +/- range? Will a tire pressure gauge work for this?


2. Some people felt the fork was over damped. Ride it and see how you feel! 
3. You can definitely use a tire pressure gauge but it will be a lot more work. It doesn't really matter whether your pump gauge is accurate or not, it's more about whether it's consistent. If you can't read the dial accurately then it won't be consistent. Digital is the way to go, they are just less rugged.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

What a fork! Had my first trail ride on it today. It was plush, supportive, and has great bottom out protection.

I just set the front sag in the standing aggressive position at 22% using the main air chamber with a place holder in the IRT. Then using the 2/3s rule (make main chamber 2/3 of the IRT pressure) 78 IRT & 51.5 main at 181#s. I reset the IRT from my first guess (first draining the main air chamber). I placed all knobs in the enduro settings that are recommended in the online manual.

The fork felt sick, I mean really good. Front traction, responsiveness, support, all very good. My wrists were loving it. I only went up to about 4' drops and at that point I had not used the final 1.25" of fork travel. Then I did the worst manual you could ever imagine and smashed in to a rock ledge but still made it up and that left me with .75" of unused travel. I was so impressed with the fork. My largest drops are 9' to flat and that's only occasional so not sure if I should adjust something at this point in setup to attempt to get 100% travel usage?

Very pleased with this fork.


----------



## ccolagio (Apr 15, 2020)

@hiss2 @ungod - thank you both!


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

I have found that it takes the harshest flat or uphill landing to bottom out this fork. The HBO really takes the sting out of bad landings. “Case” in point on a ride yesterday with a small double that I overshot and landed slightly on an upslope. Only thing saving me from going otb was the hbo imo.

I ride similar pressures to you fwiw.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

ccolagio said:


> A few questions - thank you all in advance for the feedback and this great resource of info!
> 
> So I've gone through a few dozen pages of this thread but still haven't come across a link to this excel sheet of setting that I've seen mentioned. Can someone please link it for me?


Mezzer Setup SpreadSheet


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

First ride out on my mezzer, just a local ride so nothing too rowdy. Some steps though and plenty of chattery bumps.



Feels really plush off the top, seems to use up half the travel fairly easily but I think that's me compressing the forks rather than trail stuff, I'm at 4 clicks from open on LCS so will add a click or two.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Hello,

Building a Guerilla Gravity Gnarvana and am about to pull the trigger on a Mezzer Pro. My plan was to fit 220mm disc but this article had me worried: Manitou Mezzer PRO review - Taking full control | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine as it claims it is "not certified" for 220mm.

Interestingly enough, some vendors claim max disc of 203mm, some say 220mm and the Hayes website says 223mm. Inclined to believe Hayes but am concerned it may be a typo on their site.

Does any one work for Manitou/Hayes and can they confirm the official size?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jmvar said:


> With the help of a couple forum members I have put together this guide to remove the extra 17.5 mm shim for the Mezzer Pro.
> 
> I am not a suspension expert by any means. This is not an extensive guide and assumes knowledge and tools. Proceed at your own risk. You will need the "Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide" posted here and on the Manitou site as a supplement.
> 
> ...


That's a decent guide. Well done. Funnily enough I was tuning one last week and taking photos for the same purpose. Just not sure when I'll ever get the time to make the guide.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

@TallPaul_S - silver = so fresh!


----------



## Davist12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Paul in CH said:


> Hello,
> 
> Building a Guerilla Gravity Gnarvana and am about to pull the trigger on a Mezzer Pro. My plan was to fit 220mm disc but this article had me worried: Manitou Mezzer PRO review - Taking full control | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine as it claims it is "not certified" for 220mm.
> 
> ...


I can't confirm anything but on their website, they state a 223mm rotor size will be a max fit. I plan on ordering some TRP brakes in the future with plans to run a 223 front rotor too.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> Hello,
> 
> Building a Guerilla Gravity Gnarvana and am about to pull the trigger on a Mezzer Pro. My plan was to fit 220mm disc but this article had me worried: Manitou Mezzer PRO review - Taking full control | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine as it claims it is "not certified" for 220mm.
> 
> ...


IMO 222/223mm rotors are for those with weak front brakes. Get a better brake and run an 8" rotor like normal people.

There's nothing stopping you fitting a bigger rotor though. A weak brake with a 220/223 rotor is going to put less force on everything than an 8" Dominion.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

2nd ride and still digging it running the recommended valving settings. Using the travel now. I'll monitor and might add a bit of IRT.
It feels great. 









Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That's fully bottomed. The HBO make it impressively hard to feel.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

CCS86 said:


> That's fully bottomed. The HBO make it impressively hard to feel.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


For sure, never felt it.

If that was your Excel spreadsheet for suggested air pressures, good job. The calculated numbers it spit out were nearly identical to what I ended up at.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Dougal said:


> IMO 222/223mm rotors are for those with weak front brakes. Get a better brake and run an 8" rotor like normal people.
> 
> There's nothing stopping you fitting a bigger rotor though. A weak brake with a 220/223 rotor is going to put less force on everything than an 8" Dominion.


My current bike, Canyon Torque, came with 200mm/180mm SRAM centerline discs paired with Code RSCs. Plenty of power and no fade on shorter descents. But when riding Davos (Switzerland) they became quite discoloured and had some fade due to overheating after 8 minute+ descents. I swapped over to 220mm and 200mm and it is much better - less fade and consequently hand fatigue.

I don't see this as a weak brake issue. The disc size/mass helps to dissipate heat. Perhaps I should try another brand of disc?

PS I would like to keep with Code RSCs as I like the feel and I know how to work on them. Price on these, Hope and Hayes are all the same here in Europe.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Davist12 said:


> I can't confirm anything but on their website, they state a 223mm rotor size will be a max fit. I plan on ordering some TRP brakes in the future with plans to run a 223 front rotor too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I saw the same from their website but was concerned it was a typo from 203mmm as I was not aware that 223mm discs existed!

Think I am safe to mount 220mm.

Cheers.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> My current bike, Canyon Torque, came with 200mm/180mm SRAM centerline discs paired with Code RSCs. Plenty of power and no fade on shorter descents. But when riding Davos (Switzerland) they became quite discoloured and had some fade due to overheating after 8 minute+ descents. I swapped over to 220mm and 200mm and it is much better - less fade and consequently hand fatigue.
> 
> I don't see this as a weak brake issue. The disc size/mass helps to dissipate heat. Perhaps I should try another brand of disc?
> 
> PS I would like to keep with Code RSCs as I like the feel and I know how to work on them. Price on these, Hope and Hayes are all the same here in Europe.


See if you can get a ride on a set of Hayes Dominions.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> See if you can get a ride on a set of Hayes Dominions.


I'd second this. I've owned just about every brake outside of hope or trick stuff. Guide RS, G2 RSC, Code R, Formula Cura, Maguta MT5, MT7, TRP Quadiem, Shimano XT.
The Dominion A4's smoke everything out there I've had before both in power n lever feel

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> I'd second this. I've owned just about every brake outside of hope or trick stuff. Guide RS, G2 RSC, Code R, Formula Cura, Maguta MT5, MT7, TRP Quadiem, Shimano XT.
> The Dominion A4's smoke everything out there I've had before both in power n lever feel
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Another advantage to the 220mm disc is pad/disc life. Both run cooler and last longer.

Never seen Dominion A4s here in Switzerland but would like to try them.

Nitpicking here but it is a shame Hayes only seem to make a one clamp solution for the shifter (MMX in my case) and it costs $30! Is there a 1-clamp solution for the left (with a OneUp dropper)?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Paul in CH said:


> Another advantage to the 220mm disc is pad/disc life. Both run cooler and last longer.
> 
> Never seen Dominion A4s here in Switzerland but would like to try them.
> 
> Nitpicking here but it is a shame Hayes only seem to make a one clamp solution for the shifter (MMX in my case) and it costs $30! Is there a 1-clamp solution for the left (with a OneUp dropper)?


I believe they are able to use other brake lever mounts. Dougal might be able to say 100%, but I seem to remember reading it somewhere.
The clamp looks VERY much like the back mount for a magura brake. Might be able to use theirs and I know they literally have every possible solution out there.
Other option would be to try problem solvers. They make weird adapters for nearly every scenario as well

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GatorXman (Jun 23, 2014)

My base settings to add to spreadsheet for others to reference:
140 mm
200 lbs kitted
Ibis Ripley V4 w/ Mara IL.
Tuned for local terrain which is flat and pedally with quick punchy climbs and chutes, however, has seen time in mountains with similar settings (+HSC, -LSC, -IRT)

IRT - 92
Air - 65
R - 9 FC
HSC - 3 FC
LSC - 5 FC

Conditional adjustments I have made:

My rebound is set to match the rear end. IDK if this is "proper" suspension setup technique, but I need the front and rear to be balanced and bounce back at same speed.
For non-technical East Coast mountain rides (NC, GA, TN) I had settled into 85 in the IRT. A little more linear feel, but not supportive enough for flatter or more unique terrain (drops to flat, standing climbs, chunky sections). Upping the IRT to 92 fixed this, but I have not had a chance to try it on a true mountain ride.
HSC I've been keeping 3-4 FC on flatter terrain, 1-2 FC on faster (mountain) terrain. A bit more damping on more rooty/chunky/techy trails.
LSC is what I adjust the most. 5-7 FC on downhill sections, 5 FC flat trail riding, 3-4 FC flow/jump areas, 1-2 FC when I have my kids on the Macride on my bike.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Dougal said:


> The Mezzer has a better damper, better air spring and better chassis.
> 
> IMO the only reason to buy the F36 is because the Kashima matches your switch link. To be honest we see that a fair bit.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Is the MC2 damper better? In which points (function, durability, maintenance,...)? I never had a MC2 or a Grip2 so for sure I do not have any idea. I only read everywhere that the Grip2 is a superb damper.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Is the MC2 damper better? In which points (function, durability, maintenance,...)? I never had a MC2 or a Grip2 so for sure I do not have any idea. I only read everywhere that the Grip2 is a superb damper.


The marketing dept says the GRIP2 damper is superb but I don't agree. The older FIT4 RC2 was a far better damper in design and function. Fox saved a huge amount in manufacturing cost when they went from FIT4 RC2 to GRIP/GRIP2. Tune wise the GRIP2 is very harsh and dead for anyone less than about 90kg (200lb) and it can't move fast enough to eat sharp bumps. To fix that requires modifications to the mid-valve and a full retune (compression, rebound and VVC recalibration).

Durability wise the GRIP2 is fine because it doesn't have any seals. It doesn't even have o-rings on the end-caps. It's made to suck oil in and bleed oil out. This may have been one of Fox's reasons to move away from FIT4 as there is no danger of an unmaintained fork sucking too much oil into it's damper and popping the bladder. Manitou put in a relief valve to avoid that.

I spent the last month or so on a Fox F36 GRIP2. Modified with Vorsprung Secus, burnished, damper modified and revalved. I was able to get it working well but at a big cost and not as well as a stock and well setup Mezzer. It's going to cost Fox customers about half of a Mezzer price to fix their GRIP2 forks, but some will happily pay that: Tuning & Upgrades for Fox F36 GRIP2 (Shockcraft) | Shockcraft


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> Another advantage to the 220mm disc is pad/disc life. Both run cooler and last longer.
> 
> Never seen Dominion A4s here in Switzerland but would like to try them.
> 
> Nitpicking here but it is a shame Hayes only seem to make a one clamp solution for the shifter (MMX in my case) and it costs $30! Is there a 1-clamp solution for the left (with a OneUp dropper)?


There's a big thread on the Dominions here. I'm a test rider and was riding them before release so this is my 4th season on them.








Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.


Hi guys I have a few practical questions regarding the Hayes dominion a4 brakes. I have got Sram centerline rotors, which are not very worn, but it is not recommended I use these with the dominions, correct? This would be because of the thickness of the rotors and the hight of the contact area...




www.mtbr.com





Some say Magura lever mount adapters fit but I don't have any personal experience.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Lutsch said:


> Is the MC2 damper better? In which points (function, durability, maintenance,...)? I never had a MC2 or a Grip2 so for sure I do not have any idea. I only read everywhere that the Grip2 is a superb damper.


Keep in mind, Dougal is a Manitou retailer. I'm not saying he's wrong (or right) but you aren't asking an impartial entity.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Lutsch said:


> Is the MC2 damper better? In which points (function, durability, maintenance,...)? I never had a MC2 or a Grip2 so for sure I do not have any idea. I only read everywhere that the Grip2 is a superb damper.


I don't sell anything and have used a couple of different forks including Fox 36 with Grip2 and a Mezzer.

I would look at it like a band...the damper is like the drummer in a band, important for sure but not the only part that makes a band great. An amazing drummer in a band can't make up for crap songs or the other musicians being crummy.

A Fox 36 with Grip2 is a good fork and like anything it has pros and cons so to me this isn't a zero sum deal where one fork has to be the best and everything else must be garbage.

The better question would be what are the trade-offs of fork X vs fork Y and who is it designed for...and are those elements for me or better for someone else maybe?

36/Grip2 is an effective fork, a Mezzer is an effective fork, and so is a Selva or Lyrik, etc and so forth.

The best is going to be a balance between what someone wants, what they want to spend, how they ride, how much they weigh, support from the manufacturer- all of the factors that make up the fork along with these items.

Sometimes good enough is good enough and at times it won't be, it depends on who you ask and what they value.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

silentG said:


> I don't sell anything and have used a couple of different forks including Fox 36 with Grip2 and a Mezzer.
> 
> I would look at it like a band...the damper is like the drummer in a band, important for sure but not the only part that makes a band great. An amazing drummer in a band can't make up for crap songs or the other musicians being crummy.
> .................


Well said G.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

silentG said:


> Sometimes good enough is good enough and at times it won't be, it depends on who you ask and what they value.


What astounds me is how many people win races on gear that ranges from "good enough" to "omg how do you ride this".


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

jmvar said:


> With the help of a couple forum members I have put together this guide to remove the extra 17.5 mm shim for the Mezzer Pro.
> 
> I am not a suspension expert by any means. This is not an extensive guide and assumes knowledge and tools. Proceed at your own risk. You will need the "Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide" posted here and on the Manitou site as a supplement.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I would like to ask some questions about this removing the extra 17,5 mm shim.
I am looking here but can not find anything more but only that when your fork is over damped.
Why somebody come up with idea of removins this shim?
So if I feel the fork like to harsh(I am light rider, only 65 kg) then should I try to remove this shim?
Greetings


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> I'd second this. I've owned just about every brake outside of hope or trick stuff. Guide RS, G2 RSC, Code R, Formula Cura, Maguta MT5, MT7, TRP Quadiem, Shimano XT.
> The Dominion A4's smoke everything out there I've had before both in power n lever feel


Did you tried Cura 4 or Cura 2 pots? I am currently running on Cura 4, the power and modulation is unbelievable (200/200mm, organic pads).


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

danforth said:


> Did you tried Cura 4 or Cura 2 pots? I am currently running on Cura 4, the power and modulation is unbelievable (200/200mm, organic pads).


I had the 2. The 4 were out of stock at most places that weren't absurdly priced. They had tons of power, but seemed to require a bleed every 3rd or 4th ride, which is something I hadn't had with any other brake lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Lutsch said:


> Is the MC2 damper better? In which points (function, durability, maintenance,...)? I never had a MC2 or a Grip2 so for sure I do not have any idea. I only read everywhere that the Grip2 is a superb damper.


Cant remember where I read it, maybe here but someone mention speaking to Craig (?) from Avelanch and him saying he doesnt do work on Manitou because they dont need it.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Dougal said:


> What astounds me is how many people win races on gear that ranges from "good enough" to "omg how do you ride this".


This probably happens in other fields but with mountain bike stuff I think at times people, and I'm guilty of this as well, get hung up on grams or widgets or unicorns but at some point you just have to go ride and chasing a handful of grams or perception will make you crazy and we have enough crazy going on in the world these days I reckon.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

silentG said:


> This probably happens in other fields but with mountain bike stuff I think at times people, and I'm guilty of this as well, get hung up on grams or widgets or unicorns but at some point you just have to go ride and chasing a handful of grams or perception will make you crazy and we have enough crazy going on in the world these days I reckon.


I'm not talking about a few grams. I'm talking about forks that buzz your hands numb on rough ground at speed.

Sponsored riders are having to deal with that.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> They had tons of power, but seemed to require a bleed every 3rd or 4th ride, which is something I hadn't had with any other brake lol


Not sure where did you read this. Mine was bleeded once after cut, and since that time (5 months already) i had enough power and modulation. The only problem is pads that rub the rotor, because they are too close to the disk, but this is not a huge problem. It is funny that many people (and also enduro-mtb in their article) compare 2 pots Cura against 4 pots other brakes, like XT, MT7, Dominion and Codes. Anyway, this topic is about Mezzer, so this is a bit offtop 

Does anyone tried to use Motorex oil for damper? Would you recommend to use it instead of Maxima 5WT?


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

danforth said:


> (...)Does anyone tried to use Motorex oil for damper? Would you recommend to use it instead of Maxima 5WT?


I use it on the Mattoc, didn't notice any difference between the Maxima 5W and the Motorex 2.5W.
It will take a while to service the Mezzer damper, but I'm guessing it will work just fine.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The cura is a mineral oil brake and mineral oil releases gas when it gets hot. If you don't get it hot you'll have no issues. If you do you'll need to bleed it every time.

Motorex 2.5wt oil is the same viscosity as maxima 5wt. Manitou use maxima 5wt at the factory (blue/green color) and I use motorex 2.5wt (red) for normal duty forks and shocks.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> The cura is a mineral oil brake and mineral oil releases gas when it gets hot. If you don't get it hot you'll have no issues. If you do you'll need to bleed it every time.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


Makes sense...living in south Florida and when I owned these, was summer and 95 every day. I tend to be a late braker, so I'm sure that added to heating them up.
But yeah, every 4-5 rides, I'd notice a little sponginess in lever.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

My 3rd set of Mezzers now. I could resist the the limited edition silver. Combined with an EXT Storia on the rear the bike is like a cloud.
I'm 205lb and running 100/65psi at 180mm.
Running 104/75psi at 150mm on the Prime.

















I remember a while back a member on here had a creaky CSU. My brother has Mezzers on Nicolai G1 and they have developed a creak. Has there been many cases since their release?


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Great looking setup. Going with EXT Storia + Mezzer Pro on a GG Gnarvana!

PS ridden the Storia for a year on my Canyon Torque - awesome shock.



wake jake said:


> My 3rd set of Mezzers now. I could resist the the limited edition silver. Combined with an EXT Storia on the rear the bike is like a cloud.
> I'm 205lb and running 100/65psi at 180mm.
> Running 104/75psi at 150mm on the Prime.
> 
> I remember a while back a member on here had a creaky CSU. My brother has Mezzers on Nicolai G1 and they have developed a creak. Has there been many cases since their release?


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Dougal said:


> The cura is a mineral oil brake and mineral oil releases gas when it gets hot. If you don't get it hot you'll have no issues. If you do you'll need to bleed it every time.


Maybe i am wrong, but...
DOT also release gas when temperature reaches a boiling point, same as mineral oil. The boiling point of them two is near the same (some mineral oil has lower boiling point than DOT, but some of mineral oil has higher boiling point than DOT 5.1, e.g. Trickstuff Bionol). It is mostly a choice of personal preference, both of them has a cons and pros, e.g. mineral oil is NOT hygroscopic, so when the water comes into the pipe, it goes straight to the caliper due to lower weight, resulting in instance brake fade when the water become boiled. Instead of this, DOT is hygroscopic, and absorbs water, so boiling point is reduced gradually. That is why it is recommended do rebleed DOT brakes once per season. (I also tend to think that mineral oil should be rebleed frequently, at least once per season). Both of the mineral oil brakes and DOT brakes are race proven, and i don't remember any issues for them for example in EWS, where the average stage is longer than downhill WC stage. I never had an experience to overheat brakes. Short spikes of strong braking, instead of long-time easy-easy braking, will result in lower temperatures on rotor/caliper. If someone had such problem i would like to hear to be aware off


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I'm not talking about a few grams. I'm talking about forks that buzz your hands numb on rough ground at speed.
> 
> Sponsored riders are having to deal with that.


OK


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Davist12 said:


> I can't confirm anything but on their website, they state a 223mm rotor size will be a max fit. I plan on ordering some TRP brakes in the future with plans to run a 223 front rotor too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Got an answer from Hayes/Manitou - the website is correct - 180mm to 223 mm.

Great to get a technical answer from them over a holiday period in such a crazy year. Liking this company already!


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> See if you can get a ride on a set of Hayes Dominions.


I'm not affiliated with Hayes/Manitou like Dougal is. I took his advise on the Dominions and have to say that he's spot on. They really are the best brakes that I've ever ridden by far. I had no idea that brakes could even be that good.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> I'm not talking about a few grams. I'm talking about forks that buzz your hands numb on rough ground at speed.
> 
> Sponsored riders are having to deal with that.


While I'm working from home, I watch too many MTB videos on Youtube. The chest-mount camera videos show the handlebars and nearly all of the clips with fast riders show the bars jackhammering down the trail. I'd always assumed that was normal and couldn't be managed because my fork would do the same thing. I'd have to slow down because my hands were being pulverized.

I haven't gotten the Mezzer on a high speed trail yet, so we'll see how it does when I get a dry day.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The question is, can they deliver the best brakes consistently?

The Mezzer is a good fork design.
But it seems to struggle with production quality control issues. Is this an issue specific to the Mezzer or across their product line?

Every company has faulty products that make it to the hands of consumers. A good company fixes those problems. Manitou seems to be good on fixing the problems.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Many folk on here running their Mezzer at 150mm? I'm ready to ditch my lemon of a Ribbon and pretty sure I'm going with a Mezzer but wondering how it performs with the travel reduced that low.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Many folk on here running their Mezzer at 150mm? I'm ready to ditch my lemon of a Ribbon and pretty sure I'm going with a Mezzer but wondering how it performs with the travel reduced that low.


Absolutely. Works very well even at 140mm

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mike156 said:


> The question is, can they deliver the best brakes consistently?
> 
> The Mezzer is a good fork design.
> But it seems to struggle with production quality control issues. Is this an issue specific to the Mezzer or across their product line?
> ...


Production quality control with forks is an issue industry wide, they don't seem to have any worse problems than Fox or Rock Shox. There have been plenty of very similar issues with their new forks too, apparently it is tough to produce a complicated product like a fork and sell it at a competitive price without having some occasional QC issues. In my limited experience Manitou is better than most at resolving these issues, and they tend to offer a superior product.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kiotae said:


> Many folk on here running their Mezzer at 150mm? I'm ready to ditch my lemon of a Ribbon and pretty sure I'm going with a Mezzer but wondering how it performs with the travel reduced that low.


I also ditched a Ribbon coil for a Mezzer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

danforth said:


> Maybe i am wrong, but...
> DOT also release gas when temperature reaches a boiling point, same as mineral oil. The boiling point of them two is near the same (some mineral oil has lower boiling point than DOT, but some of mineral oil has higher boiling point than DOT 5.1, e.g. Trickstuff Bionol). It is mostly a choice of personal preference, both of them has a cons and pros, e.g. mineral oil is NOT hygroscopic, so when the water comes into the pipe, it goes straight to the caliper due to lower weight, resulting in instance brake fade when the water become boiled. Instead of this, DOT is hygroscopic, and absorbs water, so boiling point is reduced gradually. That is why it is recommended do rebleed DOT brakes once per season. (I also tend to think that mineral oil should be rebleed frequently, at least once per season). Both of the mineral oil brakes and DOT brakes are race proven, and i don't remember any issues for them for example in EWS, where the average stage is longer than downhill WC stage. I never had an experience to overheat brakes. Short spikes of strong braking, instead of long-time easy-easy braking, will result in lower temperatures on rotor/caliper. If someone had such problem i would like to hear to be aware off


It's not about fluid boiling. It's about dissolved air being released at a temperature about 200C lower than boiling point.

All mineral oil contains dissolved air. Up to 8% by volume at atmospheric temperature and pressure. This is why I vacuum bleed forks and shocks, to remove most of that dissolved air and greatly increase the amount of work a damper can do before it gets foamed up.

As mineral oil is heated, the dissolved air expands in volume until it can't remain dissolved. The result is formation of air bubbles. These coalesce together and won't redissolve. Your brake goes all spongey and needs bled to firm up again. This is why mineral oil is not generally used as a brake fluid for machinery that can do more than 30km/h.

It is also why hydraulic systems on machinery self pressurise when they get hot and why MX forks and Dorado's have air bleeders.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

wake jake said:


> My 3rd set of Mezzers now. I could resist the the limited edition silver. Combined with an EXT Storia on the rear the bike is like a cloud.
> I'm 205lb and running 100/65psi at 180mm.
> Running 104/75psi at 150mm on the Prime.
> View attachment 1908937
> ...


I also have a creaky CSU and my fork was only about 3 months old. Warranty took care of it, new CSU is in the mail. Hayes rep told me it's not unheard of but it's not a common problem.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Curveball said:


> I also ditched a Ribbon coil for a Mezzer.


Ditto but still waiting for the Mezzer to arrive.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Curveball said:


> I also ditched a Ribbon coil for a Mezzer.


I take it you've been happy? I considered going coil on my Ribbon, but I was worried I was just throwing good money after bad.



Paul in CH said:


> Ditto but still waiting for the Mezzer to arrive.


It seems I'd be waiting a bit as well. 44m offset is showing out of stock. Hopefully it isn't a huge wait as my Ribbon is totally out of commission and MRP aren't willing to help me out despite two previously failed attempts by them to fix the issue.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

kiotae said:


> I take it you've been happy? I considered going coil on my Ribbon, but I was worried I was just throwing good money after bad.
> 
> It seems I'd be waiting a bit as well. 44m offset is showing out of stock. Hopefully it isn't a huge wait as my Ribbon is totally out of commission and MRP aren't willing to help me out despite two previously failed attempts by them to fix the issue.


I've been pretty vocal about how much the Ribbon sucks, so i'll repeat it: the Ribbon sucks. Mine worked 100% according to MRP the three times I got it back from them (1: initial warranty, 2: coil conversion, 3: chocolux upgrade), and it still sucked. The best thing you can do with that thing is dump it off on some other poor fool.

Talking to the Hayes rep, he said that they're expecting a batch of 44mm CSU's mid-January, and 51mm CSU's end of January. I'm not sure if that applies to complete forks as well but I'd guess so.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

ungod said:


> I've been pretty vocal about how much the Ribbon sucks, so i'll repeat it: the Ribbon sucks. Mine worked 100% according to MRP the three times I got it back from them (1: initial warranty, 2: coil conversion, 3: chocolux upgrade), and it still sucked. The best thing you can do with that thing is dump it off on some other poor fool.
> 
> Talking to the Hayes rep, he said that they're expecting a batch of 44mm CSU's mid-January, and 51mm CSU's end of January. I'm not sure if that applies to complete forks as well but I'd guess so.


I gave it repeated chances and was actually somewhat happy for the first few hours after services. Looking forward to getting something that really performs. Honestly, I think my biggest disappointment was that after two trips back to them it still wasn't fixed and now they're non-responsive. I can't sell it as is since the negative air chamber won't hold pressure. The shop that sold it to me feels bad so they've offered a coil conversion at cost and a deal on a new fork (99% sure Mezzer, but maybe Helm mk2 or Lyrik/Pike). Since the damper was just serviced, I'd feel okay about selling it with the coil conversion.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> I would like to ask some questions about this removing the extra 17,5 mm shim.
> I am looking here but can not find anything more but only that when your fork is over damped.
> Why somebody come up with idea of removins this shim?
> ...


Manitou themselves softened the damper tune by removing one 17.5mm shim in later forks. The original 2020 tune is roughly what a 90kg aggressive rider would want. I softened my one a long time ago with a custom tune that is about halfway between the 2020 firm tune and the 2021 softer tune.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Buddy got around to printing the tools.
Might adjust a few things and then have him figure out a price to have them made for others. The finish isn't great, but that's mostly to speed up the print. Both pieces worked as needed.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

silentG said:


> I don't sell anything and have used a couple of different forks including Fox 36 with Grip2 and a Mezzer.
> 
> I would look at it like a band...the damper is like the drummer in a band, important for sure but not the only part that makes a band great. An amazing drummer in a band can't make up for crap songs or the other musicians being crummy.
> 
> ...


IMO the damper is the most important part of the fork.
Even a solo air spring or simple coil spring can work perfectly fine. But put a bad damper in a fork and it just brings the suck everywhere. But most obvious in rough terrain or at speed. In rough terrain at speed a bad damper can be unridable and force the rider to drop a lot of speed to just stay in control.

Examples:
RS Yari vs Lyrik. Take a solid chassis and air spring (exactly the same as the Lyrik) and handicap it with a motion control damper (5/10). The result is a fork that just can't keep the wheel on the ground at speed. But change the damper to a bog standard charger damper (7/10) and people can win EWS enduro races on them.
FOX CTD (3/10) vs FIT4 (6/10).

The damper is responsible for all the comfort, control and most of the big hit capability in a fork. Get it right and it's amazing. Get it wrong and it's never going to feel good.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Disassembled the rebound piston and have some questions.
1. Is the rebound side dished? I think it's flat, but it looks dished for some reason.
2. Should the compression check springs be facing the same direction or flipped and rotated 90* to each other? The picture is how they came, stacked on top of each other.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Disassembled the rebound piston and have some questions.
> 1. Is the rebound side dished? I think it's flat, but it looks dished for some reason.
> 2. Should the compression check springs be facing the same direction or flipped and rotated 90* to each other? The picture is how they came, stacked on top of each other.
> 
> View attachment 1909219


Yes it's very slightly dished. I polished mine flat.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> IMO the damper is the most important part of the fork.
> Even a solo air spring or simple coil spring can work perfectly fine. But put a bad damper in a fork and it just brings the suck everywhere. But most obvious in rough terrain or at speed. In rough terrain at speed a bad damper can be unridable and force the rider to drop a lot of speed to just stay in control.
> 
> Examples:
> ...


And if the drummer stinks, the whole band will suck no matter what. I think it's a great analogy. There really is no saving a band from a bad drummer.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kiotae said:


> I take it you've been happy? I considered going coil on my Ribbon, but I was worried I was just throwing good money after bad.


I really wanted to like the Ribbon coil after hearing so many great things about coil forks. But I think the damper really let it down.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Buddy got around to printing the tools.
> Might adjust a few things and then have him figure out a price to have them made for others. The finish isn't great, but that's mostly to speed up the print. Both pieces worked as needed.
> 
> View attachment 1909215
> View attachment 1909216


Am curious what those tools are for as I plan on servicing my Mezzer myself? Can you share the 3d models?I have a cheapo 3d resin printer...


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> Am curious what those tools are for as I plan on servicing my Mezzer myself? Can you share the 3d models?I have a cheapo 3d resin printer...


Look like a seal driver for setting new seals and a set of shaft clamps if you intend to reshim.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Production quality control with forks is an issue industry wide, they don't seem to have any worse problems than Fox or Rock Shox.


If you look at the EXT Era thread people have had top out, bushing and damper issues on what is supposedly meant to be the "best" fork out there lol


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

kiotae said:


> I take it you've been happy? I considered going coil on my Ribbon, but I was worried I was just throwing good money after bad.
> 
> It seems I'd be waiting a bit as well. 44m offset is showing out of stock. Hopefully it isn't a huge wait as my Ribbon is totally out of commission and MRP aren't willing to help me out despite two previously failed attempts by them to fix the issue.


DirtMerchants on Pinkbike (a physical store in Boulder, CO) has all of the Mezzer Pros for a VERY good price!!! I just ordered mine last week and got it in like 2-3 days! SUPER fast communication and tracking info right away. Products are NOT used, they are brand new in the box. HIGHLY recommend using them and saving a ton of money. Can't WAIT to get this fork on my custom SC Megatower build this winter/spring! Best








dirtmerchantbicycles on Pinkbike


Dirt Merchant Bicycles is a rider-owned bike shop located in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. We specialize in mountain bikes, but we also have plenty of experience with skinny tire bikes. Our goal is to provide unrivaled support and unbeatable pricing on all cycling goods to riders near...



www.pinkbike.com


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I'm between this and a Helm MkII. Will the new 2021 tune be light enough for a 160 (geared) rider? I do a fair bit of roots and rock gardens at speed. Typical US East coast stuff, ie. old hiking trails.


----------



## shiny (Jul 4, 2007)

kiotae said:


> I'm between this and a Helm MkII. Will the new 2021 tune be light enough for a 160 (geared) rider? I do a fair bit of roots and rock gardens at speed. Typical US East coast stuff, ie. old hiking trails.


Can't answer the tune aspect but you can service the Mezzer yourself whereas the Helm you can only do a lowers service and you have to have a CC dealer do a damper/air service.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kiotae said:


> I'm between this and a Helm MkII. Will the new 2021 tune be light enough for a 160 (geared) rider? I do a fair bit of roots and rock gardens at speed. Typical US East coast stuff, ie. old hiking trails.


Yes, absolutely.

For reference I'm ~75kg with riding gear (165lb) and I run a custom tune that is between the MY20 and MY21 tunes.

My riding is loose gravel and sharp rocks.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Anyone come across travel adjust spacers that are not perpendicular to the shaft once clicked together? Have tried every spacer in the bag, mixed and matched and they are all skewed.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

shiny said:


> Can't answer the tune aspect but you can service the Mezzer yourself whereas the Helm you can only do a lowers service and you have to have a CC dealer do a damper/air service.


That's a big part of why the Mezzer is at the top of my list. CC is only two days UPS from me so it's not a huge deal, but I still prefer the option to service myself.



Dougal said:


> Yes, absolutely.
> 
> For reference I'm ~75kg with riding gear (165lb) and I run a custom tune that is between the MY20 and MY21 tunes.
> 
> My riding is loose gravel and sharp rocks.


Perfect. My current fork is harsh on that stuff unless I'm going absolutely full tilt and I suspect that it's largely due to me being a bit light for the tune.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Yes it's very slightly dished. I polished mine flat.


Did you also opt for a different shim stack or just remove the dish and leave the "staged" shim stack?

I have polished the compression base valve and changed the HSC spring. Debating if I want to change anything else or just try out the current changes without introducing more variables.I have a new stock damper direct from hayes that I'll be baselining against.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Did you also opt for a different shim stack or just remove the dish and leave the "staged" shim stack?
> 
> I have polished the compression base valve and changed the HSC spring. Debating if I want to change anything else or just try out the current changes without introducing more variables.I have a new stock damper direct from hayes that I'll be baselining against.


Different compression stack, different rebound stack, polished the rebound piston flat and running a different midvalve check spring.
I don't remember if I polished the compression piston flat or not. It's well over a year ago and I haven't opened the damper since.


----------



## M4rc1n (Nov 20, 2020)

I'm looking for a new fork for my girlfriend and wondering what is your thoughts on Mezzer for super light riders?

She is only 100lbs all in and not very aggressive rider. I'm wondering if Mezzer will be good match especially on compression side or it will have to be retunned ?

My other options is 2021 Lyrik as apparently 2021 version has been amended to suit lighter riders.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Yes, absolutely.
> 
> For reference I'm ~75kg with riding gear (165lb) and I run a custom tune that is between the MY20 and MY21 tunes.
> 
> My riding is loose gravel and sharp rocks.


How can one tell if he has MY20 or MY21 forks?

Thanks!


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

POAH said:


> If you look at the EXT Era thread people have had top out, bushing and damper issues on what is supposedly meant to be the "best" fork out there lol


That's a gross exaggeration and what I continually see people here do to try and knock the more expensive products.

The ERA is the best SC fork for sale, if cost is no issue.

The Mezzer is very good (I have the LE) but it definitely doesn't have the off the top suppleness that the ERA is known for, and it couldn't as the Mezzer doesn't have the coil spring to assist with breaking the air seal tension.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

M4rc1n said:


> I'm looking for a new fork for my girlfriend and wondering what is your thoughts on Mezzer for super light riders?
> 
> She is only 100lbs all in and not very aggressive rider. I'm wondering if Mezzer will be good match especially on compression side or it will have to be retunned ?
> 
> My other options is 2021 Lyrik as apparently 2021 version has been amended to suit lighter riders.


If it meets your travel requirements I'd put a 100# non-aggressive rider on a Fox 34mm or a Pike.

My own 108# wife is on a 150mm travel F34 for this very reason. Well that and because at her weight, grams matter.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> That's a gross exaggeration and what I continually see people here do to try and knock the more expensive products.
> 
> The ERA is the best SC fork for sale, if cost is no issue.


someone's a little butt hurt


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

POAH said:


> someone's a little butt hurt


Someone's a little full of ****.

I don't even have an ERA and do have a Mezzer. The only reason I care is because you are misleading people about the ERA fork and I don't like dishonesty.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## M4rc1n (Nov 20, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> If it meets your travel requirements I'd put a 100# non-aggressive rider on a Fox 34mm or a Pike.
> 
> My own 108# wife is on a 150mm travel F34 for this very reason. Well that and because at her weight, grams matter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


This won't match her bike Juliana Strega (SC Nomad v4) 170-180mm travel. She is not very aggressive but can ride steep black runs ?

I just sold her Yari 2018 as she was complaining on the excessive diving and arm pump.

It will be either Mezzer or Lyrik


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Mezzer, Lyric & Yari are identical in rigidity. In fact with Torque Caps the RS is almost certainly more rigid. The Lyric is a few grams lighter than the Mezzer. That said the technical details and the valving of the Mezzer can't be matched by the RS product, not even close really.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> The Mezzer is very good (I have the LE) but it definitely doesn't have the off the top suppleness that the ERA is known for, and it couldn't as the Mezzer doesn't have the coil spring to assist with breaking the air seal tension.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


The coil spring in series with air spring was pioneered by Manitou (MARS air spring). They used it from 2000 until about 2018 on cross country forks. It's a good system but requires the coil spring to be matched to the rider weight and air pressure. Otherwise you get really funky dynamics.
Manitou made and sold 5 different coil spring rates for each fork (XS, S, M, F, XF) which the riders had to match. Otherwise heavy riders on soft springs had issues and so did light riders on firm springs.

I'm not aware of EXT having different rate coil springs available or instructions on how to change them.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

M4rc1n said:


> This won't match her bike Juliana Strega (SC Nomad v4) 170-180mm travel. She is not very aggressive but can ride steep black runs 😉
> 
> I just sold her Yari 2018 as she was complaining on the excessive diving and arm pump.
> 
> It will be either Mezzer or Lyrik


I get these questions a lot about lighter riders. The only issue the Mezzer has is the air spring is quite progressive. This makes it difficult for riders who are less aggressive or don't have the arm strength to get full travel. Women ride further rearwards on the bike and don't load the fork as much, it is rare for any female riders to get full fork travel at all levels of riding and racing.

Mrs Dougal is still on a Mattoc for this reason. That fork is less progressive and even with the spring and damper tuned in for her weight and riding style (grade 5 trails but ridden c0nservatively) she doesn't get the last 20mm. On a Mezzer it would be more like the last 30mm.

I have some ideas to make these forks less progressive but haven't had a chance to try anything yet. I've got some tools coming that'll help with the task.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> How can one tell if he has MY20 or MY21 forks?
> 
> Thanks!


Stickers.
MY20 has a flat sheet sticker with silver bands at the dropouts and below the wiper seals.
MY21 has individual letter stickers and no silver bands.

The tune change may have happened earlier than the sticker change. But if you've got the new stickers you should have the softer tune. If you've got a MY20 it's a 4 banana job to remove the extra shim and rebleed the damper.


----------



## M4rc1n (Nov 20, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Someone's a little full of ****.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk





Dougal said:


> I get these questions a lot about lighter riders. The only issue the Mezzer has is the air spring is quite progressive. This makes it difficult for riders who are less aggressive or don't have the arm strength to get full travel. Women ride further rearwards on the bike and don't load the fork as much, it is rare for any female riders to get full fork travel at all levels of riding and racing.
> 
> Mrs Dougal is still on a Mattoc for this reason. That fork is less progressive and even with the spring and damper tuned in for her weight and riding style (grade 5 trails but ridden c0nservatively) she doesn't get the last 20mm. On a Mezzer it would be more like the last 30mm.
> 
> I have some ideas to make these forks less progressive but haven't had a chance to try anything yet. I've got some tools coming that'll help with the task.


Thanks for clarifying that.

Let us know if you will figure out how to make Mezzer less progressive.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I get these questions a lot about lighter riders. The only issue the Mezzer has is the air spring is quite progressive. This makes it difficult for riders who are less aggressive or don't have the arm strength to get full travel. Women ride further rearwards on the bike and don't load the fork as much, it is rare for any female riders to get full fork travel at all levels of riding and racing.
> 
> Mrs Dougal is still on a Mattoc for this reason. That fork is less progressive and even with the spring and damper tuned in for her weight and riding style (grade 5 trails but ridden c0nservatively) she doesn't get the last 20mm. On a Mezzer it would be more like the last 30mm.
> 
> I have some ideas to make these forks less progressive but haven't had a chance to try anything yet. I've got some tools coming that'll help with the task.


If it was 30-50% of the travel like mars I'd agree with you but looking at it I doubt it moves more than 3mm.

It's more similar to another old manitou spring lol, ISO air. ISO air Used a little rubber bumper to push the piston, where ext is using a small stiff spring.

Just like ISO air or the flexible membranes on the new manitou IFPs don't need to be adjusted for rider weight, I could see a small in series spring to also have a wide working range since it's only purpose is to smooth out that initial static seal stiction.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

croakies said:


> If it was 30-50% of the travel like mars I'd agree with you but looking at it I doubt it moves more than 3mm.
> 
> It's more similar to another old manitou spring lol, ISO air. ISO air Used a little rubber bumper to push the piston, where ext is using a small stiff spring.
> 
> ...


It's not about how much travel it's got, it's about the spring either not moving enough to do anything (thus making the air spring work over too big stroke) or sending a spike through as it hits it's stop.

IMO Adjusting IFP for rider weight is BS. The IFP job is to prevent cavitation, keep seals pinned and return oil. Those changing IFP pressures as a tuning variable are I think mislead.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

jmvar said:


> With the help of a couple forum members I have put together this guide to remove the extra 17.5 mm shim for the Mezzer Pro.
> 
> I am not a suspension expert by any means. This is not an extensive guide and assumes knowledge and tools. Proceed at your own risk. You will need the "Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide" posted here and on the Manitou site as a supplement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the guide, it took the guess work out of the equation . a good way to spend part of New Years day.

The trickiest bit for me was the bladder wanted to twist when snugging up the hbo cup, a spanner on the bladder nut held it straight when tightening & I used the fusion line on the bladder as a guide to keep it straight.

As for bleeding the tricky part was removing the top bleed syringe & getting the bleed screw in quick enough to not let the bladder with a slight bulge as per the manitou guide, to loose too much fluid, you have to be quick.

My mezzer is a 5/2020 manufacture date & had the 2nd 17.5 shim.
Test ride today or tomorrow , I'm going to start with my usual settings, I may actually get to use the hsc preload. most likely the Irt will get some adjustment.

My most interesting find was when I initially removed the cartridge the shaft would fully self extend quite quickly after compressing it, Air in there maybe?. the bladder didn't appear to be overfilled but I'm no expert.
I haven't had to worry about unweighting the front wheel on this fork with the pump attached unlike my mattoc, I always thought it was the air quad seal keeping it in place, maybe it was this.

happy trails.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Not sure how well this shows it, but the ring around the damper does in fact NEARLY seal the upper stanchion from the lower leg. The only area you have air/oil to move through is a tiny bit of the notches for the splines.

I do think the oring likely reduces the potential for noise as the damper can pretty easily flex around to hit the ring.

I could see this adding some additional spring force at high shaft speeds.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> The coil spring in series with air spring was pioneered by Manitou (MARS air spring). They used it from 2000 until about 2018 on cross country forks. It's a good system but requires the coil spring to be matched to the rider weight and air pressure. Otherwise you get really funky dynamics.
> Manitou made and sold 5 different coil spring rates for each fork (XS, S, M, F, XF) which the riders had to match. Otherwise heavy riders on soft springs had issues and so did light riders on firm springs.
> 
> I'm not aware of EXT having different rate coil springs available or instructions on how to change them.


You certainly are a wealth of knowledge regarding the Mezzer and forks in general and I for one appreciate it. However I always note a lot of skepticism when any competitor's products are mentioned. That's okay, we all have our biases, the key is to be cognizant of them.

My thoughts on the topic of the little ERA spring is that EXT has reduced stiction a great deal and they have narrowed the measured stiction down to a pretty small window of variability regardless of air pressure in the fork. After all, it doesn't need to be a 100% offset, the ERA still has a negative chamber after all. Clearly they have succeeded.

All ERA reviews that I have read say something along these lines after all:

From PB "I'm usually not one to gush, but after six solid rides on the Era I'm comfortable saying that I've never ridden a fork that felt this good right out of the box. I've even switched bikes with a couple of riding partners mid-ride *so they could experience what I was feeling, and in both instances the general consensus was "that's ridiculous."*

Yes, the "air that feels like a coil" claim has been made multiple times before, but in this case *EXT have come incredibly close to mimicking the ultra-sensitive, plush feel of a coil fork*, with the ability to tune the end stroke ramp up to prevent harsh bottom outs.

*It's the ease that the fork initiates its travel that really stands out.* Even while climbing, the part of the ride where fork performance tends to take a backseat, the Era's ability to effortlessly smooth out chunkier sections of trail is noticeable. Tip the trail the other way and the Era truly shines - square-edged hits simply disappear, all without using up too much travel.
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/19126881/
It's a unique sensation, and it took me a little bit to get accustomed to the feel of the Era. At first I thought I might need to run less than the recommended 15-20% sag, since *it didn't seem possible to have such a supple beginning stroke* without bottoming out off the smallest drop or sitting too deep in the travel. It turns out that wasn't the case at all - there was ample support for pushing into corners and dealing with compressions, all while reserving enough travel for the really big hits.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> I get these questions a lot about lighter riders. The only issue the Mezzer has is the air spring is quite progressive. This makes it difficult for riders who are less aggressive or don't have the arm strength to get full travel. Women ride further rearwards on the bike and don't load the fork as much, it is rare for any female riders to get full fork travel at all levels of riding and racing.
> 
> Mrs Dougal is still on a Mattoc for this reason. That fork is less progressive and even with the spring and damper tuned in for her weight and riding style (grade 5 trails but ridden c0nservatively) she doesn't get the last 20mm. On a Mezzer it would be more like the last 30mm.
> 
> I have some ideas to make these forks less progressive but haven't had a chance to try anything yet. I've got some tools coming that'll help with the task.


I've noticed the same and just figured that women have a lot more of their weight centered around their hips where men have a lot more around their upper body. They also tend not to stand up and move around as men do.

Air springs are by nature, progressive (obviously you know this). Seems it would be easier to just slap a coil spring in on the air side if desiring a linear spring rate.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It still won't be linear with a coil. I put a chart up on the force from the pressure in the lowers and it's not insignificant. At 180mm travel it's in the 120-150 lb range.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Dougal said:


> It's not about how much travel it's got, it's about the spring either not moving enough to do anything (thus making the air spring work over too big stroke) or sending a spike through as it hits it's stop.
> 
> IMO Adjusting IFP for rider weight is BS. The IFP job is to prevent cavitation, keep seals pinned and return oil. Those changing IFP pressures as a tuning variable are I think mislead.


Agree with you on IFP pressures, was more trying to make a point on squishy things.

It's just a tiny squishy thing to help in the millisecond it takes to break static seal friction. In a sense you are right that there is a fixed tunning range but it's so damn large in the application that it doesn't matter. Weather the coil moves .5 mm or 2mm, it does it's job of being squishy thing with no friction.

Did manitou include different rubber squishy bumpers for ISO air?

On another note in the mattoc vs Mezzer. Love both forks and feel that even mattoc outperforms your typical fox factory fork. Having said that, for aggressive riding I felt a big reduction in friction under load in favor of mezzer. I also like the heavier damping feel as well.

I am running less oil than recommend on air spring side to reduce lower air build up as it was noticable to me. I can bottom out fork no problem though.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

nmxtrdr said:


> Anyone come across travel adjust spacers that are not perpendicular to the shaft once clicked together? Have tried every spacer in the bag, mixed and matched and they are all skewed.
> View attachment 1909416


Yup, same here. Didn't sweat it too much though. Just added 2 cm of spacers, put it back together and works fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

croakies said:


> Agree with you on IFP pressures, was more trying to make a point on squishy things.
> 
> It's just a tiny squishy thing to help in the millisecond it takes to break static seal friction. In a sense you are right that there is a fixed tunning range but it's so damn large in the application that it doesn't matter. Weather the coil moves .5 mm or 2mm, it does it's job of being squishy thing with no friction.
> 
> ...


Honestly I think that rubber insert in the ISO air piston does nothing. I do like ISO air though for the nicer build and better shaped top-out bumper over TS Air.

Do you mean the stiffer Mezzer slides better under hard riding? While it's certainly what you'd expect I have found them different enough in air and damper feel that chassis differences get lost in the noise (or lack of). The Mezzer just feels like it doesn't give a damn whatever you throw at it.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Stickers.
> MY20 has a flat sheet sticker with silver bands at the dropouts and below the wiper seals.
> MY21 has individual letter stickers and no silver bands.
> 
> The tune change may have happened earlier than the sticker change. But if you've got the new stickers you should have the softer tune. If you've got a MY20 it's a 4 banana job to remove the extra shim and rebleed the damper.


Thanks! My forks should arrive next week so I presume they will be MY21.

I ride quite steep natural terrain here in Switzerland, and at 93kg (before kit) I am concerned that I will find the tune too light...

PS 4 banana job?!


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

what's a symptom of too light HSC tune and needing to add the 17.5 shim back in


----------



## TuomasR (Jul 2, 2006)

Did I understood correctly that the lighter damper tune in MY21 version improves sensitivity of the fork? For reference I am considering to replace my MY2016 Fox 36 FIT4 to either Lyrik or Mezzer. Unfortunately I don't have a possiblity to take Mezzer for a test ride, luckily Enduro magazine did quite comprehensive fork test The best mountain bike fork 2021 - 9 suspension forks in review | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine. Based on pictures of Mezzer with silver bands, they have probably reviewed MY20 fork.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

fizzywater said:


> Yup, same here. Didn't sweat it too much though. Just added 2 cm of spacers, put it back together and works fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's probably fine short term, but that uneven load on the piston is concerning.

I sent an email to Hayes a few days ago, will report back their feelings on the issue.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> It's probably fine short term, but that uneven load on the piston is concerning.
> 
> I sent an email to Hayes a few days ago, will report back their feelings on the issue.


It's just due to draft angles and warping from the injection molding.

If you push it straight with your hands, that will tell you how much load it takes... Not much at all.

I used a file and some sand paper to even mine out a little.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> Thanks! My forks should arrive next week so I presume they will be MY21.
> 
> I ride quite steep natural terrain here in Switzerland, and at 93kg (before kit) I am concerned that I will find the tune too light...
> 
> PS 4 banana job?!


You can rate jobs on difficulty with a 1-5 scale of anything. Bananas work.
I have customers your weight who asked for the MY20 Mezzer to be softened up. So I don't think you will find it too light.



spo0n said:


> what's a symptom of too light HSC tune and needing to add the 17.5 shim back in


Blowing through travel too fast.



TuomasR said:


> Did I understood correctly that the lighter damper tune in MY21 version improves sensitivity of the fork? For reference I am considering to replace my MY2016 Fox 36 FIT4 to either Lyrik or Mezzer. Unfortunately I don't have a possiblity to take Mezzer for a test ride, luckily Enduro magazine did quite comprehensive fork test The best mountain bike fork 2021 - 9 suspension forks in review | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine. Based on pictures of Mezzer with silver bands, they have probably reviewed MY20 fork.


Not so much sensitivity, but the speed at which the fork can move to get up and over bumps. There is no contest between a Mezzer and a Lyrik.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

Dougal said:


> ...There is no contest between a Mezzer and a Lyrik.


100% facts. Spent $900 on Lyrik and another $700 trying to make it work like I wanted. Either got mush or harsh.
Mezzer at $749 and I haven't had to or wanted to put a dime into it outside some Supergliss 100k in the lowers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Th3Bill said:


> 100% facts. Spent $900 on Lyrik and another $700 trying to make it work like I wanted. Either got mush or harsh.
> Mezzer at $749 and I haven't had to or wanted to put a dime into it outside some Supergliss 100k in the lowers.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same.. had a 180mm lyrik with push hc97 and runt dsd (similar to IRT), and the mezzer is just better. I feel like the lyrik had a tad bit more suppleness of the top (2019 so pre air shaft "fix") at low speeds/parking lot feel, but everywhere else (high speed, bottom out support, chassis feel, damping, control, chatter, etc ) mezzer is king. Honestly , for the low speed suppleness , I find that tire volume and pressure tuning is a better endeavor than chasing it on a fork.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

jcmonty said:


> Same.. had a 180mm lyrik with push hc97 and runt dsd (similar to IRT), and the mezzer is just better. I feel like the lyrik had a tad bit more suppleness of the top (2019 so pre air shaft "fix") at low speeds/parking lot feel, but everywhere else (high speed, bottom out support, chassis feel, damping, control, chatter, etc ) mezzer is king. Honestly , for the low speed suppleness , I find that tire volume and pressure tuning is a better endeavor than chasing it on a fork.


I had similar setup. 
Initially went Runt plus HC97. That was as close as it got. 
Finally went full on coil with Smashpot with it. 
Still like Mezzer better. Really slow stuff maybe a tad stiffer off top, but everything where I'm carrying speed, just way more comfortable to ride.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Thanks Dougal!

PS I guess I am showing my age but was familiar with the IBM standard which was 1-3 bananas so was quite concerned by the (above the scale) 4 bananas!



Dougal said:


> You can rate jobs on difficulty with a 1-5 scale of anything. Bananas work.
> I have customers your weight who asked for the MY20 Mezzer to be softened up. So I don't think you will find it too light.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Set up my new Mezzer last night and am nowhere close to Manitou’s recommended pressures. Around 150 pounds out of the shower and 160-165 in full riding gear. Ended up with 40 psi in positive air chamber and 60 psi in the IRT (following the 2/3 rule), but even that gave me only 15% sag in standing attack mode (I usually prefer around 20-25% sag). Will see what that yields in first ride with my Mezzer later today, which will also be maiden ride on my new Stumpjumper EVO....pretty excited and how it will stack up against my Druid with Fox 36 Grip2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

fizzywater said:


> Set up my new Mezzer last night and am nowhere close to Manitou's recommended pressures. Around 150 pounds out of the shower and 160-165 in full riding gear. Ended up with 40 psi in positive air chamber and 60 psi in the IRT (following the 2/3 rule), but even that gave me only 15% sag in standing attack mode (I usually prefer around 20-25% sag). Will see what that yields in first ride with my Mezzer later today, which will also be maiden ride on my new Stumpjumper EVO....pretty excited and how it will stack up against my Druid with Fox 36 Grip2.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check the setup sheet that I setup and others improved:








Mezzer User Setups


Setup Guide & Pressure Calc Manitou Setup Guide,Travel,140mm 140mm,150mm,160mm,170mm,180mm lbs,kg,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT 300,136,110,152,105,141,101,137,92,132,88,120,150mm 260,118,96,134,91,125,87,121,80,116,76,106,160mm 220,100,82,116,77,109,73,105,68,100,64,92,170mm 200,91




docs.google.com





There is a handy calculator on "Setup..Calc" that @CCS86 made (I believe). It's fairly spot on as a good starting point. Most of us have found the Manitou recs a bit too firm for our liking.

BTW - really curious about your 2-bike comparison. Not in the market, but both of those bikes speak to me


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

The Mezzer is a great fork, but I don't find it super plush or anything. It's still an air fork.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> It's just due to draft angles and warping from the injection molding.
> 
> If you push it straight with your hands, that will tell you how much load it takes... Not much at all.
> 
> ...


Push it straight? Do you mean flush with the piston? I tried that barehanded, it would require pliers. No going there.

That picture I posted doesn't even do justice for the distance between piston and spacer at the gap.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Get out the round file and straighten it out if you're worried about it?

Simple truth is that spacer only does something when the air spring force is at its lowest. It's not going to hurt anything.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

mike156 said:


> Get out the round file and straighten it out if you're worried about it?
> 
> Simple truth is that spacer only does something when the air spring force is at its lowest. It's not going to hurt anything.


I get the filing suggestions, simple fix, probably, unless having the spacer loose on the shaft creates another issue.

What I don't get is the claim that an uneven load on the most critical component of the air spring is no big deal. Every second this fork isn't being ridden there would be pressure on the main piston trying to force it out of alignment, which at best will cause friction, worst sealing issues.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> I get the filing suggestions, simple fix, probably, unless having the spacer loose on the shaft creates another issue.
> 
> What I don't get is the claim that an uneven load on the most critical component of the air spring is no big deal. Every second this fork isn't being ridden there would be pressure on the main piston trying to force it out of alignment, which at best will cause friction, worst sealing issues.


You are thinking about this wrong. Any time your front wheel is on the ground, those spacers are exerting zero force on the air piston. It is only at full top-out that they load into it.

There is no risk of extra friction or sealing issues. The only risk I see is that after thousands of top-out cycles, the connection between the air piston and shaft fatigues and breaks because of the bending load. Empirically, this doesn't seem to be an actual issue. Every single Mezzer out there, not running at 180mm is bashing these spacers and we have seen zero reports of pistons breaking.

I personally straightened mine a bit. But, you don't want them loose on the shaft because the chance of automatic disassembly of the spacer and wear on the shaft is higher.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> You are thinking about this wrong. Any time your front wheel is on the ground, those spacers are exerting zero force on the air piston. It is only at full top-out that they load into it.
> 
> There is no risk of extra friction or sealing issues. The only risk I see is that after thousands of top-out cycles, the connection between the air piston and shaft fatigues and breaks because of the bending load. Empirically, this doesn't seem to be an actual issue. Every single Mezzer out there, not running at 180mm is bashing these spacers and we have seen zero reports of pistons breaking.
> 
> ...


Thanks. My spacers are off to the point I don't think filing would make any difference unless they were filed to the point of fitting very loose. I'll ask for a new bag of spacers when I hear back from Hayes.

Regarding the pressure on piston. Wouldn't there be a load on it whenever the bike was sitting idle?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> Thanks. My spacers are off to the point I don't think filing would make any difference unless they were filed to the point of fitting very loose. I'll ask for a new bag of spacers when I hear back from Hayes.
> 
> Regarding the pressure on piston. Wouldn't there be a load on it whenever the bike was sitting idle?


Yes, but the load on them at rest is tiny.

Gently push down on the bars and see how much force it takes to move the fork 1mm. That is roughly the force acting on them at rest.

Compare that to hundreds of pounds force acting on the piston, deep in stroke. Yes, the force at top out is applied unevenly, but it is small enough not to matter.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

CCS86 said:


> Yes, but the load on them at rest is tiny.
> 
> Gently push down on the bars and see how much force it takes to move the fork 1mm. That is roughly the force acting on them at rest.
> 
> ...


My Mezzer remains uninstalled so I haven't been able to sample its plushness.

Did you ever get around to making the 5mm travel spacers?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nmxtrdr said:


> My Mezzer remains uninstalled so I haven't been able to sample its plushness.
> 
> Did you ever get around to making the 5mm travel spacers?


Sorry I didn't reply to you yet.

I can fire off a batch of them soon. Not sure what a fair price would be to cover my costs and time to produce them, clean them up and fit check, then ship. They are probably small enough to send in an envelope though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

CCS86 said:


> Sorry I didn't reply to you yet.
> 
> I can fire off a batch of them soon. Not sure what a fair price would be to cover my costs and time to produce them, clean them up and fit check, then ship. They are probably small enough to send in an envelope though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Your method is surely the best, that said just sanding them down by hand on a flat surface might be workable as well for a part that doesn't need to be super precise.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
I am just wondering what can be the smallest difference between IRT and main air chamber in psi. I am currently riding 25 main and 35 psi IRT.
I weigh 65 kg (145 lb).

When I will remove extra shim from my damper I will try to bleed it with another oil.
Maxima 5wt has low VI viscocity index - 150. In the lower temperatures it is working sluggish.
I am thinking of using eg. Maxima 3wt because its VI viscocity index is 378.
But 5wt has lower [email protected] 100C - 3.51 comparing to 3wt - [email protected] 5.2.
Is there a working temperature about 100C degrees in the damper? Or be aware only about [email protected] 40c? And here 3wt is also slightly better.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Has anyone else dealt with a friction "notch" in travel. Not sure what could be causing it. Took fork apart and damper and air spring are both smooth, isolated to Stanchion/lowers.

I run fork at 180mm and right at around 165mm/15mm into travel, there is very distinct friction notch for ~2mm. Super smooth after and before this point. Fork will not extend out to full 180mm most of the time because of this. Inspected stanchions and they look/feel fine so am confused on how there can be a position based issue. Any thoughts are appreciated.

On a separate note, I went ahead and dremeled notches into white spacer like others have. Every time I've dropped lowers, seems like 90% of oil is up there. This should help.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

croakies said:


> Has anyone else dealt with a friction "notch" in travel. Not sure what could be causing it. Took fork apart and damper and air spring are both smooth, isolated to Stanchion/lowers.
> 
> I run fork at 180mm and right at around 165mm/15mm into travel, there is very distinct friction notch for ~2mm. Super smooth after and before this point. Fork will not extend out to full 180mm most of the time because of this. Inspected stanchions and they look/feel fine so am confused on how there can be a position based issue. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> 
> ...


Are the foam rings still in good condition? are the Foam ring(s) possibly twisting?.
Otherwise you can put one stantion in the lowers at a time to isolate if its both or one leg you feel the friction, then do the reverse (flip the lowers around)to see if it moves sides, this may tell you if its a stantion or lowers issue.
Maybe a bushing is out of round & is slightly tight at that particular point, anyone in your area do bushing burnishing.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> I am just wondering what can be the smallest difference between IRT and main air chamber in psi. I am currently riding 25 main and 35 psi IRT.
> I weigh 65 kg (145 lb).
> 
> ...


From memory the mattoc was a minimum of 10psi difference, I assume the mezzer is the same, it does have a more progressive air spring so you may get away with less & still have some effect.
You can run them the same pressure & turn it into a big air spring but it sort of defeats the purpose of the irt.

As for oil I used motorex fork oil 2.5w, it is 1 cst difference at 40 deg than maxima 5w from what I found.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

I was going to add what sag do you currently have?, the pressure your running is very light, if your running too much sag your going to be sitting in the firmer mid stroke which may not be helping the over damped/sluggish in the cold feel, by all means remove the extra shim to reduce the overall firmness ,but it's also worth experimenting with more air pressure.

If you are open to experiment, I'd suggest using the spreadsheet & calculator posted previously or even starting with the 100% in kg IRT/ 60% in kg main spring that dougal came up with as a rough starting point & adjust from there.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Your method is surely the best, that said just sanding them down by hand on a flat surface might be workable as well for a part that doesn't need to be super precise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I am still running mostly factory spacers. But, I did sand them a bit to straighten them out. I only designed and printed 5mm versions to fine tune travel.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I see, assumed you just machined 5mm off a pacman, 2.5mm off each side. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Yeah, I tried to use many different pressures


cashews said:


> I was going to add what sag do you currently have?, the pressure your running is very light, if your running too much sag your going to be sitting in the firmer mid stroke which may not be helping the over damped/sluggish in the cold feel, by all means remove the extra shim to reduce the overall firmness ,but it's also worth experimenting with more air pressure.
> 
> If you are open to experiment, I'd suggest using the spreadsheet & calculator posted previously or even starting with the 100% in kg IRT/ 60% in kg main spring that dougal came up with as a rough starting point & adjust from there.


Yeah, I tried to use many different pressures also when IRT was lower than main and also with much bigger pressures but find that in lower pressures is has the best feeling for my hand(hand fatigue).

I run about 23% sag with this pressure(check on sitting position).
When I tried higher pressure I used about 2/3 or half the stanchions.
For sure I will try to change damper feel by removing shim and see what then happen.

I am riding ebike so generally I feel more all the obstacles because I am riding faster but hope it is possible to have good feel on this fork.

So do not worry about [email protected] 100C parametr while changing oil but only [email protected] 40C?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> I am just wondering what can be the smallest difference between IRT and main air chamber in psi. I am currently riding 25 main and 35 psi IRT.
> I weigh 65 kg (145 lb).
> 
> ...


Before I softened the damper I was running 35/55psi. I'm about 75kg dressed to ride.
With a new damper tune (mine is a bit firmer than the MY21 tune with one less shim) I am running 40/60psi. Removing the damper shim will fix it for you also.

Maxima 3wt red works well down to about zero but not so good in the super cold. You won't get a fork damper anywhere near 100C. Probably only 20C over ambient.
I run 405 VI oil (Shockcraft Hot Oil Pink) in my Mezzer damper.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

croakies said:


> Has anyone else dealt with a friction "notch" in travel. Not sure what could be causing it. Took fork apart and damper and air spring are both smooth, isolated to Stanchion/lowers.
> 
> I run fork at 180mm and right at around 165mm/15mm into travel, there is very distinct friction notch for ~2mm. Super smooth after and before this point. Fork will not extend out to full 180mm most of the time because of this. Inspected stanchions and they look/feel fine so am confused on how there can be a position based issue. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> 
> ...


Maybe you have tightened the air shaft seal head to much. It is very critical that you don't overtighten it as it will expand the stanchion. Measure the air side stanchion with a caliper and you will see if it expands at the bottom.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

lukam said:


> Maybe you have tightened the air shaft seal head to much. It is very critical that you don't overtighten it as it will expand the stanchion. Measure the air side stanchion with a caliper and you will see if it expands at the bottom.


Very good thought. Out of round stanchion is likely only cause and I did service air shaft seal head. Gonna try that tonight. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Wonder how much Enduro mag is paid to say Fox and RS make the "best" forks? HAHAHAHAHA I'm guessing a lot to make such a bold faced lie


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I've had 4 RS forks, a DVO, and one Mezzer. Only the Mezzer had an assembly error that made the fork feel terrible. The DVO had a shim stack that made it pretty rough though and in fairness, three of the RS I replaced the dampers before even trying them.

I'm not saying the Mezzer is bad, but so far I'm not impressed. The issue has (hopefully) been resolved but I can't really verify as I missed the last two months of riding season on the Mezzer, thankfully I kept the Lyrik to replace it while waiting for the parts to fix it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I've had 4 RS forks, a DVO, and one Mezzer. Only the Mezzer had an assembly error that made the fork feel terrible. The DVO had a shim stack that made it pretty rough though and in fairness, three of the RS I replaced the dampers before even trying them.
> 
> I'm not saying the Mezzer is bad, but so far I'm not impressed. The issue has (hopefully) been resolved but I can't really verify as I missed the last two months of riding season on the Mezzer, thankfully I kept the Lyrik to replace it while waiting for the parts to fix it.


So, you haven't even ridden on the Mezzer with the damper fixed? Why would you make a judgement on its performance then?

Obviously a bummer that you won the assembly error lottery, but that is a super low chance occurrence.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## jpec29 (Jul 22, 2015)

Anyone heard when the Mezzer Pro 29 44mm offset will be back in stock? I'm forkless and getting impatient 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Curious, for those of us who aren't ready to work on the Mezzer Pro ourselves, and would like to send it to someone for either end of season maintenance work, or tuning, what places work on the Mezzer? Craig from Avalanche says he does not work on them. So I'm just trying to find people or places that do work on them and/or tune them? Thanks


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

jpec29 said:


> Anyone heard when the Mezzer Pro 29 44mm offset will be back in stock? I'm forkless and getting impatient
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Just a few posts ago, I told everyone here that Dirt Merchants in Boulder, CO has them for sale at a crazy good price! Look him up on Pinkbike and he'll get your fork out to you fast!


----------



## jpec29 (Jul 22, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Just a few posts ago, I told everyone here that Dirt Merchants in Boulder, CO has them for sale at a crazy good price! Look him up on Pinkbike and he'll get your fork out to you fast!


Yea I emailed them didn't hear back! I'll try again

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

jpec29 said:


> Yea I emailed them didn't hear back! I'll try again
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Send them a message on their Pinkbike page, not their store page. He responded to my Pinkbike message in like 10 mins or less!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Eric from Dirt Merchant is on vacation until the 18th, but responding to e-mails. It may just take a little longer than normal. I inquired earlier this week about a 29" in 44 offset and he said they are on order, but the ETA is unknown right now.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

SuperWookie said:


> Curious, for those of us who aren't ready to work on the Mezzer Pro ourselves, and would like to send it to someone for either end of season maintenance work, or tuning, what places work on the Mezzer? Craig from Avalanche says he does not work on them. So I'm just trying to find people or places that do work on them and/or tune them? Thanks


I would send it to these guys:



Shockspital - Local and mail-in MTB suspension service



Dirt Labs supposedly works on them, but I had a poor experience with them and would not use them again. I had Shockspital service a McLeod a few years ago, good communication, reasonable prices, and seem to know their stuff.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> So, you haven't even ridden on the Mezzer with the damper fixed? Why would you make a judgement on its performance then?
> 
> Obviously a bummer that you won the assembly error lottery, but that is a super low chance occurrence.


I'm making a judgement on my experience overall?
Overall...I got a broken fork from the factory that, had I not had a second fork, I would have missed the last two months of riding season. So... Overall... As of this point in time, I'm not that impressed.

Honestly, 99/100 other people would not have tore it apart to reshim it and found the issue. Instead, they probably would have pulled it off and sold it thinking all Mezzers are garbage.

I also don't think it's a lottery either as there are quite a few reports of problems in this thread.

Now, in fairness, I would bet most people buying Mezzers are looking for something "better" then what they already have and might be paying more attention then the average Fox/RS buyer. They are likely more critical then many.

Also, in fairness, Manitou has done a great job in fixing the issue and that is going a long way in improving the overall experience.

If there wasn't ice and snow everywhere here, I could get a better idea of how a (hopefully) fixed Mezzer feels. Unfortunately, that's probably two months away still.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You don't think what happened to you was a super low chance occurrence? Show me ONE other person that it happened to.

Again, saying you "are not impressed" with a fork you haven't really ridden yet seems silly.

If you went to a restaurant, ordered a steak, but were served a fish; while waiting for them to swap it out for a steak, would you post a Yelp review about how the steak wasn't impressive? Or would you wait until you actually tried it?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Hello! My supergliss 100k just arrived from Dougal. The fork has about 20 hrs on it and I'm wondering if I can fill it with 7cc of supergliss along with the existing oil?
It will be around 40-50F where I'm riding. Thanks!


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what was wrong in my fork might be common actually. FWIW I'm thinking the HSC spring doesn't touch for assembly purposes, not because it has a useful tuning purpose. By not touching, the shim that was trapped in mine should sit down and be much less likely to get trapped.

it's also not that apparent what the issue even was but riding. It just felt harsh unless I ran HSC full soft and LSC too soft for my preference. The irony, most people here run nearly open damping.... Wonder if more people then me have this issue and just don't realize it?

Your comparison sucks though. I got the right fork. I rode it for several months. It felt like ****, so I took it apart to reshim it and found an assembly issue.

I didn't get fish when I ordered steak. I got a shitty stake and I'd be pretty justified in saying the steak sucked. I looked into it though and found I got my steak cooked by the new guy that didn't know what he was doing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> CCS86, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what was wrong in my fork might be common actually.


I hope you acknowledge that you "not being surprised", isn't the same thing as something actually happening.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> CCS86, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what was wrong in my fork might be common actually. FWIW I'm thinking the HSC spring doesn't touch for assembly purposes, not because it has a useful tuning purpose. By not touching, the shim that was trapped in mine should sit down and be much less likely to get trapped.


I can't speak for others, but for tuning I want the HSC spring to be clear of the shims so they can move unimpeded.

Otherwise it sets the minimum stiffness you can get at a higher level that is difficult to quantify. Shims want to flex up in ways dependent on the number of ports. HSC springs want the whole thing to move together.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

noobshredur said:


> Hello! My supergliss 100k just arrived from Dougal. The fork has about 20 hrs on it and I'm wondering if I can fill it with 7cc of supergliss along with the existing oil?
> It will be around 40-50F where I'm riding. Thanks!


Not an expert but I think your would be fine if you really wanted to do that. 
Personally I would just replace it all or not, very easy drain oil.

I went to the SG100k recently just before temps started dropping in NorCal. We get into the 40's (Bay Area) once in a while. On a colder day I did notice some harsher action, especially small bump.
Just today switched back to the the 5w40 just to see if this was the cause. According to Dougal's charts the SG100k should be ok down to 0c, so I am not sure this was my issue.

According this chart (if I am reading it correctly ) your better off running the Motorex 5w40 in 40-50F range....I might even give the RS 0W30 a go for the winter...


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> I hope you acknowledge that you "not being surprised", isn't the same thing as something actually happening.


Of course. Buy these are two things I've noticed:

1. All it takes is tilting the damper a bit while you are assembling it and you can very easily trap that shim. As far as I can tell, there is no way you can verify you didn't trap it once assembled as the bladder blocks the view and you have to put the bladder on before you can tighten everything up.

2. There are quite a few in here suggesting to run LSC full open (or very near it). At that point, my fork had Jack squat for support. If a functioning fork has to be fully open to not feel harsh, then either the damping sucks even when it works correctly or other people might have the same issue.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> I can't speak for others, but for tuning I want the HSC spring to be clear of the shims so they can move unimpeded.
> 
> Otherwise it sets the minimum stiffness you can get at a higher level that is difficult to quantify. Shims want to flex up in ways dependent on the number of ports. HSC springs want the whole thing to move together.


A fair point and if you are tuning to an individual rider, I get your perspective. At that point though, why even bother having HSC adjustment? For a mass market fork though, you can't really get adjustable HSC in many other ways. Is Fox the only way that doesn't use spring preload for HSC control?

I guess like I mentioned earlier in this thread, using that spring to control shim stack clamping load would meet your desire for natural stack flex but still allow adjustability. It's not really adjusting HSC rate though like Fox, but it would be more like a threshold adjustment and highly digressive.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

mike156 said:


> 2. There are quite a few in here suggesting to run LSC full open (or very near it). At that point, my fork had Jack squat for support. If a functioning fork has to be fully open to not feel harsh, then either the damping sucks even when it works correctly or other people might have the same issue.


having LSC fully open may suit them but it clearly doesn't suit you. why is that even an issue?

so you haven't ridden the fork properly or know how to tune it but you're making a judgement on its performance.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lsc full open will be the ones with the my2020 shim stack.

I run lsc closed for support and my tune isn't that much softer.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Lol, poah you are right, I suck because I can't click a few knobs to fix an actual mechanical problem.

Seriously, you Manitou fans are sensitive. A handful keep posting on here and in other threads about how great and perfect the Mezzer is and all I'm saying is "they have problems too." I've also been completely upfront that they have been great on customer service to remedy the problem. That's something I'm not sure others can say with other brands.

Hopefully the snow clears a bit and I can get out on it to see if it is every bit as good as some claim. I hope it is. Although, mine has now got burnished bushings, so not exactly a factory fork, but definitely the least modified fork I've had in a couple years.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks again for the great discussion, info and resources. Can anyone recommend a vise shaft clamp attachment? I've used strap wrenches and blocks of wood for awhile. I tried golf club shaft holders and those rubbery ones from Amazon, they require too much clamping force for my liking. I want something that works better than those but aren't $100+ aluminum blocks... Ty!

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

no, you are making comments about a fork you've not ridden fixed.



mike156 said:


> Lol, poah you are right, I suck because I can't click a few knobs to fix an actual mechanical problem.
> 
> Seriously, you Manitou fans are sensitive. A handful keep posting on here and in other threads about how great and perfect the Mezzer is and all I'm saying is "they have problems too." I've also been completely upfront that they have been great on customer service to remedy the problem. That's something I'm not sure others can say with other brands.
> 
> Hopefully the snow clears a bit and I can get out on it to see if it is every bit as good as some claim. I hope it is. Although, mine has now got burnished bushings, so not exactly a factory fork, but definitely the least modified fork I've had in a couple years.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Lol, poah you are right, I suck because I can't click a few knobs to fix an actual mechanical problem.
> 
> Seriously, you Manitou fans are sensitive


Who is sensitive?

POAH says:



POAH said:


> so you haven't ridden the fork properly or know how to tune it but you're making a judgement on its performance.


And you equate that to "you suck because you can't click a few knobs to fix an actual mechanical problem."?

Take it easy with story time. No one is attacking you; only pointing out that you are making claims about performance without actually sampling it. You are also making up stories about how the assembly error you have is widespread, without a shred of evidence to support that claim. I personally don't care whether you like the Mezzer or not. Just stick to the facts when posting here.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

mike156 said:


> I guess like I mentioned earlier in this thread, using that spring to control shim stack clamping load would meet your desire for natural stack flex but still allow adjustability. It's not really adjusting HSC rate though like Fox, but it would be more like a threshold adjustment and highly digressive.


that's what BOS does since a long time in their forks: similar setup compared to a Mezzer or Fox RC2, but the spring has a far higher spring rate and the space pushes on the smallest shim, instead of the u-shaped ones pushing on the largest face shim. This is a picture of the basevalve from my 2014 Idylle RaRe 26"


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Look, I'll concede. I spoke to my opinion about how I feel about the Mezzer so far. But I always intended to give the fork another chance once it was fixed and in fair weather. Let's be frank, no fork (or more likely tire) performs all that great in 20F weather so I'm at a stand still on changing my opinion on it. I'll hold off on any other subjective observations on the Mezzer until that point.



reo-fahrer said:


> that's what BOS does since a long time in their forks: similar setup compared to a Mezzer or Fox RC2, but the spring has a far higher spring rate and the space pushes on the smallest shim, instead of the u-shaped ones pushing on the largest face shim. This is a picture of the basevalve from my 2014 Idylle RaRe 26"


Interesting. That does look like a much stiffer spring, although wave springs can be pretty deceiving in how stiff they are relative to how they look.

I was basing my thoughts off the avalanche FVaT/HSB.


Floating Valving Assisted Threshhold High Speed Blow-off System



In the tuning guide, they have the firm spring listed as 22lb. I'd have to check my notes, but it looked like a standard spring that you can source off mcmaster. It also looked like the normal spring was likely half as stiff. The important thing to point out too on the FVaT is that there is a limit to how far that spring can compress. The "float" is limited to 0.1mm to 0.5mm. In effect, the stack can flex slightly open initially because the spring is preloaded. Once the preload is overcome, the stack floats and I imagine gets a pretty significant digressive knee. Once the stack hits the float limit, the stack has to flex more again and it likely starts ramping up damping again to help control HSC.

Seems pretty ingenuous really as the preload will allow more LSC on the mid valve/adjuster but can blow off to keep from being harsh. I'm my experience, that's exactly what it does anyway because my Avy fork feels VERY stiff in general but never makes my hands hurt from harshness.

Going forward though, I have a new factory damper that's in the fork and it's ready to go, when ever that is. I also have a second damper that I've taken some clues from Dougal on. I've lapped piston faces and changed the HSC spring. I'm also trying to find a different compression check shim spring. I don't plan on changing shim stacks though as that's already a fair number of changes to start with and I want to do a comparison between them.


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

Hello everyone,

I'm in the market for a Mezzer fork to built up my new bike. I'm curious if there's more to modell year 2021 then stickers and a shim less? Which shim would that be, rebound or compression?

My personal weight is 84kg (185 LBS) geared up, so would it be better to have the 2020 tune or the new one?


----------



## jpec29 (Jul 22, 2015)

jpec29 said:


> Anyone heard when the Mezzer Pro 29 44mm offset will be back in stock? I'm forkless and getting impatient
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


So no one heard anything?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

jpec29 said:


> So no one heard anything?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The shops in Germany list the forks for end of January.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

jpec29 said:


> So no one heard anything?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Like I mentioned above, I was told the CSUs will be in stock in short offset on the 14th. I would imagine that shipment includes full forks as well. You can always call their service number, the guy who runs it is super friendly.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

ungod said:


> Like I mentioned above, I was told the CSUs will be in stock in short offset on the 14th. I would imagine that shipment includes full forks as well. You can always call their service number, the guy who runs it is super friendly.


If he is so friendly why isn't he on all social media platforms answering all our questions? Telephones are so 1990's. Maybe I should send a fax as well 😂😂😂


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Hi i've just received my mezzers from starbike.de. The product description did say "new production model with updated lowers" but the forks i received are manufacture date 2019/08 and there isn't a green dot on my box, there's no bleed nipples and the decals are one sticker not individual lettering. What's the general concensus on this, should i just put them on my bike and go ride, or should i send them back to Germany and ask for the newer legs?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

ungod said:


> Like I mentioned above, I was told the CSUs will be in stock in short offset on the 14th. I would imagine that shipment includes full forks as well. You can always call their service number, the guy who runs it is super friendly.


I've found same thing with their email customer service. 
Realized on my first wiper service that I had loose bottom out bumpers. They asked which build fork I had. I sent pics of box and lowers. Got a quick reply that I had original castings and they're going to send me the newest lowers once the batch they're working on is ready. 
Guy was super communicative during entire process. I don't have a problem with anything now, but nice to get new lowers sent to me for a fork I bought 8 months ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

bloodbox said:


> Hi i've just received my mezzers from starbike.de. The product description did say "new production model with updated lowers" but the forks i received are manufacture date 2019/08 and there isn't a green dot on my box, there's no bleed nipples and the decals are one sticker not individual lettering. What's the general concensus on this, should i just put them on my bike and go ride, or should i send them back to Germany and ask for the newer legs?


If you're in US, contact Manitou. I actually had fork built in June 2019 I bought from worldwide cyclery. Apparently was never updated. I have no issues with the fork at all, but Manitou sending me new lowers anyway...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> If you're in US, contact Manitou. I actually had fork built in June 2019 I bought from worldwide cyclery. Apparently was never updated. I have no issues with the fork at all, but Manitou sending me new lowers anyway...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the swift reply! I'm in the UK unfortunately!


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

bloodbox said:


> Thanks for the swift reply! I'm in the UK unfortunately!


Oh man...that's a tough one. I know some people have had issues getting things taken care of not in the US. 
I'd try reaching out to Manitou anyway and see what they say. Might be worth a shot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> Oh man...that's a tough one. I know some people have had issues getting things taken care of not in the US.
> I'd try reaching out to Manitou anyway and see what they say. Might be worth a shot
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah it's a tough one! I've waited weeks for them to arrive and I just want to get them on and go for a ride... they're staring at me now! But I guess they're not what I ordered and I'd hate to have troubles with them down the line.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

bloodbox said:


> Yeah it's a tough one! I've waited weeks for them to arrive and I just want to get them on and go for a ride... they're staring at me now! But I guess they're not what I ordered and I'd hate to have troubles with them down the line.


Before paying to ship back, shoot manitou a message. Worth a shot if ya already have the fork.
And yes, that fork is very nice...and it rides even better than it looks 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> Before paying to ship back, shoot manitou a message. Worth a shot if ya already have the fork.
> And yes, that fork is very nice...and it rides even better than it looks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just messaged Manitou now so I'll see what they say!


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
Could you have a look on this video because after removing extra shim 17,5 mm it is working louder(I mean that clicking on the damper side)
Is it normal?
To be honest I can hardly notice any improvements without this shim. I also change oil with much higher viscocity and lower [email protected] 7 compare to Maxima 5 wt 15.
Can I also remove the next shim 17,5 mm so together get out of 2 shims 17,5 mm?


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Thanks again for the great discussion, info and resources. Can anyone recommend a vise shaft clamp attachment? I've used strap wrenches and blocks of wood for awhile. I tried golf club shaft holders and those rubbery ones from Amazon, they require too much clamping force for my liking. I want something that works better than those but aren't $100+ aluminum blocks... Ty!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk


I got some thick-ish AL plate (2mm I think) and cut a couple rectangles out. Put them in the vice and used hammer to "shape" to contours of the vice.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> Could you have a look on this video because after removing extra shim 17,5 mm it is working louder(I mean that clicking on the damper side)
> Is it normal?
> To be honest I can hardly notice any improvements without this shim. I also change oil with much higher viscocity and lower [email protected] 7 compare to Maxima 5 wt 15.
> Can I also remove the next shim 17,5 mm so together get out of 2 shims 17,5 mm?


How can the oil have a higher viscosity but a lower CsT?
It's very possible the oil you used is a "louder" oil and that's what is causing the noise


----------



## thedrizzle (Feb 17, 2012)

bloodbox said:


> Thanks for the swift reply! I'm in the UK unfortunately!


I'm in Australia also purchased forks through starbike. I contacted manitou directly as our distributor is useless and they sent me the updated lowers.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

006_007 said:


> If he is so friendly why isn't he on all social media platforms answering all our questions? Telephones are so 1990's. Maybe I should send a fax as well 😂😂😂


Probably because the internet is a weird and brutal place. So they let guys like me take all the praise and arrows on the front lines.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

spo0n said:


> How can the oil have a higher viscosity but a lower CsT?
> It's very possible the oil you used is a "louder" oil and that's what is causing the noise


CST is a measure of thickness. Viscosity is the change in thickness with temperature. The two terms have entirely different meanings. High viscosity oils have less change in their thickness as the temperature changes, but also often have lower lubricity as viscosity improvers are often used to increase viscosity.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> CST is a measure of thickness. Viscosity is the change in thickness with temperature. The two terms have entirely different meanings. High viscosity oils have less change in their thickness as the temperature changes, but also often have lower lubricity as viscosity improvers are often used to increase viscosity.


No it is not.

cSt is a unit of kinematic viscosity, as opposed to dynamic viscosity. It has nothing to do with temperature.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> No it is not.
> 
> cSt is a unit of kinematic viscosity, as opposed to dynamic viscosity. It has nothing to do with temperature.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Did I say anything about the relationship cst and temperature? Since you bring it up, to establish the cst of an oil you must also state the temperature that it was measured for it to have any meaning. The viscosity index of that oil will tell you the delta of the cst between two temperatures, normally 40 and 100c.


----------



## volcanized (Sep 23, 2008)

I see what's happening here... viscosity index =/= viscosity

Viscosity must be measured at a given temperature. Sometimes it's provided in a graph. It seems that the favorite temperatures to report are 40*C and 100*C. As a fluid becomes more thick, it's said to be more viscous. And of course we're talking about kinematic viscosity, not dynamic.

The viscosity index was stated correctly by Cary. It's a value that represents the fluids change in viscosity due to temperature.

Cary, you missed the word "index" and it has us slipping all over the place. Clearly you know what you're talking about. Just missed a word.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

thedrizzle said:


> I'm in Australia also purchased forks through starbike. I contacted manitou directly as our distributor is useless and they sent me the updated lowers.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


Thanks, I've emailed both Starbike and Manitou so I'll see how it goes. I'd be happy for them to just send me out new lowers rather than sending the forks back.


----------



## Grady (Nov 17, 2008)

thedrizzle said:


> I'm in Australia also purchased forks through starbike. I contacted manitou directly as our distributor is useless and they sent me the updated lowers.
> 
> Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk


I'm in Australia and purchased my original Mezzer from Wiggle, it's manufacture date was 08/2019 even though I purchased it 07/2020. I made a claim with the Aus distributor, Cycling Deal, and couldn't praise them any higher. They kept me in the loop every step of the way. And within a month i had a whole new fork. The manufacture date of the new fork was about the same time I made the claim too, which was 11/2020.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> Did I say anything about the relationship cst and temperature?


Yes, you did. Maybe you misspoke.

"Thickness" is analogous to "viscosity".



Cary said:


> CST is a measure of thickness. Viscosity is the change in thickness with temperature.


Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

bloodbox said:


> Hi i've just received my mezzers from starbike.de. The product description did say "new production model with updated lowers" but the forks i received are manufacture date 2019/08 and there isn't a green dot on my box, there's no bleed nipples and the decals are one sticker not individual lettering. What's the general concensus on this, should i just put them on my bike and go ride, or should i send them back to Germany and ask for the newer legs?


I got my Mezzer from Bike24. No green dot, one piece stickers, no bleed nipples but the lowers are of the updated variety. I thinks it's only Manitou US doing the green dot marking?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

Toni L said:


> I got my Mezzer from Bike24. No green dot, one piece stickers, no bleed nipples but the lowers are of the updated variety. I thinks it's only Manitou US doing the green dot marking?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


These sound exactly the same as mine, i thought the individual lettering and bleed nipples were what differentiated the new lowers from the old.


----------



## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

What you should check is if there’s enough/any oil in the lowers. Mine were apparently swapped by Manitou EU and they were completely dry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

I got mine from bike24 as well 2 days ago. The packaging says manufacturing date is August 2020 but the stamps tell me a 19 which is probably the year of manufacturing. How can I see If I should contact Manitou or not?


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I stated this a while back, but I will restate it so its more recent:

The TSR ports on the casting will guarantee that you have the updated version, but the1st batch or replacement castings did not have TSR valves, They are perfectly good castings. 

At this point, all bad castings "should" have been replaced. My suggestion is that you should install and ride your forks, if the bushings are bad you will know. Manitou will properly warranty them whether they are installed and ridden or not.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Interesting comparison (mezzer is first):






TL;DW - Thought that the Mezzer was "too harsh" over faster chatter. Blamed it on overdamped feeling, especially on rebound.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

From what I recall of his other reviews, he really doesn't like anything resembling firm suspension. He's been pretty critical of other stuff that rides on the firm side IIRC.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

kiotae said:


> From what I recall of his other reviews, he really doesn't like anything resembling firm suspension. He's been pretty critical of other stuff that rides on the firm side IIRC.


I found it interesting because what he was claiming seems to be what I experienced (to a much lesser degree - overdamped and slower rebound) prior to getting rid of the "extra" 17.5mm shim plus upping my lower air chamber a bit (still under the recommended). Wonder if he had an older fork. Didn't look to see if there were bleed ports.. though that isn't a 100% accurate way to know for sure.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

jcmonty said:


> I found it interesting because what he was claiming seems to be what I experienced (to a much lesser degree - overdamped and slower rebound) prior to getting rid of the "extra" 17.5mm shim plus upping my lower air chamber a bit (still under the recommended). Wonder if he had an older fork. Didn't look to see if there were bleed ports.. though that isn't a 100% accurate way to know for sure.


Considering how long they usually have those in for review and that's he's pretty anal retentive (and I mean that as a compliment) about testing, I'd bet you're possibly right about it being the firmer fork. He's also not a big guy.


----------



## bloodbox (Apr 26, 2020)

mullen119 said:


> I stated this a while back, but I will restate it so its more recent:
> 
> The TSR ports on the casting will guarantee that you have the updated version, but the1st batch or replacement castings did not have TSR valves, They are perfectly good castings.
> 
> At this point, all bad castings "should" have been replaced. My suggestion is that you should install and ride your forks, if the bushings are bad you will know. Manitou will properly warranty them whether they are installed and ridden or not.


Thanks for that, i've emailed manitou who have already replied and hopefully they'll be arranging for me to be sent some of the latest lowers. I'll be returning to work at sea from tomorrow for a couple of months so i'm not in any rush now.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

jcmonty said:


> Interesting comparison (mezzer is first):
> 
> TL;DW - Thought that the Mezzer was "too harsh" over faster chatter. Blamed it on overdamped feeling, especially on rebound.


wouldn't take any notice of bike radar TBH


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

jcmonty said:


> Interesting comparison (mezzer is first):
> 
> 
> 
> ...





kiotae said:


> From what I recall of his other reviews, he really doesn't like anything resembling firm suspension. He's been pretty critical of other stuff that rides on the firm side IIRC.


Strange indeed considering that Pinkbike just hired him to replace RC as their technical editor:

_Seb Stott (above) is coming on board in February as a technical editor in the UK. With a long history of excellent analysis and testing at BikeRadar and MBUK, Seb also has a degree in experimental physics and has a thing for methodical, back-to-back testing._

PB Article


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Having a Pike RCT3 before the Mezzer, I would not call it a firm fork.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

GiddyHitch said:


> Strange indeed considering that Pinkbike just hired him to replace RC as their technical editor:
> 
> _Seb Stott (above) is coming on board in February as a technical editor in the UK. With a long history of excellent analysis and testing at BikeRadar and MBUK, Seb also has a degree in experimental physics and has a thing for methodical, back-to-back testing._
> 
> PB Article


I've always respected his opinion and thought he did a good thorough job, even if it I don't tend to agree with him on certain things. I think he has trouble separating his preferences from his review conclusions, or at least expressing his preferences so we can identify where he may be biased or his conclusions may differ from our own. I think he'll make a good addition to the PB crew, it's a clown show over there (perhaps intentionally) and really hard to take a lot of their reviews seriously due to some really dubious bro-science.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

kiotae said:


> I've always respected his opinion and thought he did a good thorough job, even if it I don't tend to agree with him on certain things. I think he has trouble separating his preferences from his review conclusions, or at least expressing his preferences so we can identify where he may be biased or his conclusions may differ from our own. I think he'll make a good addition to the PB crew, it's a clown show over there (perhaps intentionally) and really hard to take a lot of their reviews seriously due to some really dubious bro-science.


Ya pb quality of reviews is not on the high end of the scale. Their comments section is bloody hilarious. So many flat earth believers over there.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> Interesting comparison (mezzer is first):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_edit_

Just watched it properly. Sticker say it's the MY21 fork. Not sure which damper tune he's got. Weird that he thought it was overdamped on rebound.
_/edit_

Next week I should be able to post up a decent performance comparison between the MY20 and MY21.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Just ordered my second Mezzer in the LE for my new bike. Will I have the MY21 or MY20 shim?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

I've about had it with my issues with this fork. In the few months I've owned it I've had to send it in for the CSU creaking, sent it in again for a damper issue and had the damper replaced, then the screw holes for the mud guard stripped, now tonight the bleed port screw stripped the threads out of the lower casting while I did another 25 hour service. I'm hoping Hayes will fix this as well. I was able to get the screw to thread back in on the remaining amount of threading (not much) but the fork sounds super loud now. I think air is getting into the lowers of the damper side now. I'm going to try and upload a video.









IMG_0661.MOV







drive.google.com





sorry for the heavy breathing at the end, I was pretty pissed off.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

006_007 said:


> Ya pb quality of reviews is not on the high end of the scale. Their comments section is bloody hilarious. So many flat earth believers over there.


There's some good stuff in there, it's just sometimes hard to separate from what they add simply for entertainment value. I didn't realize this until recently after watching some of the "impossible climb" videos. I realize they're for fun, but I'm also very sure that Levy (or Kaz, can't remember which) is intentionally flailing around. Aside from having nice balance, hopping in place skills, he's kind of a technical climbing mess in videos. I think they're playing it up for entertainment. There's no way someone who rides that terrain as much as him isn't better.

Sorry to go OT everyone. Back on track now.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

frischensbub said:


> I got mine from bike24 as well 2 days ago. The packaging says manufacturing date is August 2020 but the stamps tell me a 19 which is probably the year of manufacturing. How can I see If I should contact Manitou or not?


Mine (from bike-discount.de) are also manufactured in 2020 (August or June, who knows what 2020/8/6) according to the sticker on the box. Likewise, the serial number of the box matches the serial number stamped on the fork.

What stamp tells you it is 2019? Picture?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> I've about had it with my issues with this fork. In the few months I've owned it I've had to send it in for the CSU creaking, sent it in again for a damper issue and had the damper replaced, then the screw holes for the mud guard stripped, now tonight the bleed port screw stripped the threads out of the lower casting while I did another 25 hour service. I'm hoping Hayes will fix this as well. I was able to get the screw to thread back in on the remaining amount of threading (not much) but the fork sounds super loud now. I think air is getting into the lowers of the damper side now. I'm going to try and upload a video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is it Manitou's fault that you keep stripping threads?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> How is it Manitou's fault that you keep stripping threads?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Because this is a new lower casting and the threads stripped WHILE REMOVING THE BOLT. This was not something I had previously touched. They replaced the lowers when the mud guard bolt holes stripped. This wasn't me stripping the threads trying to get the screws back in. They stripped themselves while removing a bolt put on at the factory.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> Because this is a new lower casting and the threads stripped WHILE REMOVING THE BOLT. This was not something I had previously touched. They replaced the lowers when the mud guard bolt holes stripped. This wasn't me stripping the threads trying to get the screws back in. They stripped themselves while removing a bolt put on at the factory.


All the bolts came out damaged? That is very odd.

What was wrong with your damper?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> All the bolts came out damaged? That is very odd.
> 
> What was wrong with your damper?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


No, sorry I may not be explaining it right. The bolts are not damaged it tore out the threading from the lower casting. If it was just the bolt I wouldn't be that worried.

not really sure what happened with the damper. when I hit about hour 15 on it from the first warranty repair all the damper controls stopped working. Rebound was acting like it was as fast as it could go all the time no matter where the dial was and not compression settings did nothing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> No, sorry I may not be explaining it right. The bolts are not damaged it tore out the threading from the lower casting. If it was just the bolt I wouldn't be that worried.
> 
> not really sure what happened with the damper. when I hit about hour 15 on it from the first warranty repair all the damper controls stopped working. Rebound was acting like it was as fast as it could go all the time no matter where the dial was and not compression settings did nothing.


That's pretty lame. I guess they got over-torqued at the factory. Sounds like you got the 4:45PM on Friday fork.

I hope they get you straightened out so you can enjoy it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

Paul in CH said:


> Mine (from bike-discount.de) are also manufactured in 2020 (August or June, who knows what 2020/8/6) according to the sticker on the box. Likewise, the serial number of the box matches the serial number stamped on the fork.
> 
> What stamp tells you it is 2019? Picture?


Here's what I mean.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> That's pretty lame. I guess they got over-torqued at the factory. Sounds like you got the 4:45PM on Friday fork.
> 
> I hope they get you straightened out so you can enjoy it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yeah, I can't figure out if the compression noise is normal or not now haha. My first mezzer made a good bit of noise from the start, then after I got the damper replaced it was dead silent again. Now it's making noise so I'm not sure. I've opened a ticket with ibis so I'll see what they say


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

frischensbub said:


> Here's what I mean.
> View attachment 1911841


Mine has the same. I presume that is when the casting for the uppers was made but perhaps an expert can chime in...

I would be fairly confident that the manufacturing date on the box label correctly reflects when the fork was assembled.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> That's pretty lame. I guess they got over-torqued at the factory. Sounds like you got the 4:45PM on Friday fork.
> 
> I hope they get you straightened out so you can enjoy it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Or cross threaded from the factory. I saw that A LOT on all sorts of components with small bolts when I worked in shops. Everything seemed ok until I go to take the bolt out and then all the threads came with it.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Or cross threaded from the factory. I saw that A LOT on all sorts of components with small bolts when I worked in shops. Everything seemed ok until I go to take the bolt out and then all the threads came with it.


That's basically how it went. All seemed good, Bolt didn't feel like it had any more resistance than normal. As soon as it came out so did a ton of metal shards lol.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

frischensbub said:


> I got mine from bike24 as well 2 days ago. The packaging says manufacturing date is August 2020 but the stamps tell me a 19 which is probably the year of manufacturing. How can I see If I should contact Manitou or not?


Contact them for what?


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

megablue said:


> That's basically how it went. All seemed good, Bolt didn't feel like it had any more resistance than normal. As soon as it came out so did a ton of metal shards lol.


Fine alloy threads? I'm not gonna pretend like I didn't cross thread or nearly cross thread my share of stuff over the years.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

kiotae said:


> There's some good stuff in there, it's just sometimes hard to separate from what they add simply for entertainment value. I didn't realize this until recently after watching some of the "impossible climb" videos. I realize they're for fun, but I'm also very sure that Levy (or Kaz, can't remember which) is intentionally flailing around. Aside from having nice balance, hopping in place skills, he's kind of a technical climbing mess in videos. I think they're playing it up for entertainment. There's no way someone who rides that terrain as much as him isn't better.
> 
> Sorry to go OT everyone. Back on track now.


I had the same realization at about the same time. He's a terrible technical climber, lol. His bunny hop climbing technique is a prime example of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Fine alloy threads? I'm not gonna pretend like I didn't cross thread or nearly cross thread my share of stuff over the years.


Yep. I have almost cross threaded stuff a few times. But after years of working on bikes and cars I've gotten pretty good about not doing it. This is the first time I've ever had threads come out when removing a bolt for the first time though.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Also could anyone take a look at the video I posted and tell me if the decompression noise is normal or not? I got the screw slightly back it with the few remaining threads, enough to feel like it shouldn’t be letting air in.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Paul in CH said:


> I got some thick-ish AL plate (2mm I think) and cut a couple rectangles out. Put them in the vice and used hammer to "shape" to contours of the vice.


Nice. I'm sure it works, but that's a little to blacksmithy for me to use on friends bikes.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

megablue said:


> Yep. I have almost cross threaded stuff a few times. But after years of working on bikes and cars I've gotten pretty good about not doing it. This is the first time I've ever had threads come out when removing a bolt for the first time though.


I just mean I can see how this stuff happens at the factory. It shouldn't, but it does.



ungod said:


> I had the same realization at about the same time. He's a terrible technical climber, lol. His bunny hop climbing technique is a prime example of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".


I'm not sure I buy that he actually is that bad. I think it's an act to make us laugh and stimulate comments, views etc. That's kinda PB's thing. The downside is that I think it makes it harder to take him seriously as a reviewer.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> Also could anyone take a look at the video I posted and tell me if the decompression noise is normal or not? I got the screw slightly back it with the few remaining threads, enough to feel like it shouldn't be letting air in.


It's not set public right now.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Got to put 30 miles of desert riding on the repaired fork in southern Utah. It seems to be riding better, although I didn't really get on a trail with sustained chunky downhill where it felt harsh before. Used all but ~15mm of travel on about a 4-5' drop to flat where before it would still have 30-40mm left. The HSC definitely is less now. I'm running LSC - 2 from closed and HSC at 1 from open and support in corners feels good. It's noticably smoother after burnishing as well.

It's definitely got the opportunity to be a contender to the Lyrik/Avy/Runt. Need to get it on a long/fast/rough trail though to see. I'm guessing it's not going to disappoint.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

mike156 said:


> Got to put 30 miles of desert riding on the repaired fork in southern Utah. It seems to be riding better, although I didn't really get on a trail with sustained chunky downhill where it felt harsh before. Used all but ~15mm of travel on about a 4-5' drop to flat where before it would still have 30-40mm left. The HSC definitely is less now. I'm running LSC - 2 from closed and HSC at 1 from open and support in corners feels good. It's noticably smoother after burnishing as well.
> 
> It's definitely got the opportunity to be a contender to the Lyrik/Avy/Runt. Need to get it on a long/fast/rough trail though to see. I'm guessing it's not going to disappoint.


Having had a Lyrik HC97w/Runt and then Smashpot, the Mezzer beats handily imo. I ride a lot of XC stuff in FL, but do DH in the summer in NY and this fork has yet to leave me feeling wanting for the one it replaced lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The Avy is a big upgrade over the HC97. I've had both.


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

mike156 said:


> The Avy is a big upgrade over the HC97. I've had both.


Never had the Avy. By the time I got to talking with Craig, I'd gone with the Smashpot and going back to hybrid air wasn't much of an option 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> It's not set public right now.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Should be fixed now


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

After a couple hundred miles on the Mezzer (MY20, bleeders, no bushing play, no creaking), and having ridden a 2020 Fox 36 Grip 2, 2018 X Fusion Metric, and Fox 36 RC2 on the same bike / wheels / tires (except for the RC2, different wheel & tire) some impressions:

I'm about 185lbs with gear

*2016 RC2 Fox 36 @ 150:*
This is post recent full service @ Fox, they may or may not have adjusted anything for my weight / riding style:

With the fork setup for speed, it is one of the best to go plow through rock garden and ride down steep terrain that I have had a chance to ride, it stays up in travel and erases large impacts, braking bumps, roots...
Small bump compliance when going slow sucks bad without giving up a lot of a performance when speed goes up
Mid corner bumps are not as good as on the Mezzer, it doesn't inspire the same confidence
Amazing at covering my lack of skills. I had several oh **** moments that the fork just erased 10/10 would recommend

*X Fusion Metric @ 160:*
Recent lower service, performance degraded pretty quick on the damper, now def needs full service

Chassis felt stiff
Damper was not super consistent (even when new) at speed plowing stuff, it would sometimes randomly bounce the front end off from large hits instead of absorbing it.
Very good small bump compliance, on par or better than the Grip 2
Good on mid corner bumps but giving up some support
Not as good as the other 3 forks during o-**** moments, the random damping behavior might be why?

*2020 Fox 36 Grip 2 @ 160:*
Post lowers service:

Call me weird, I liked the RC2 & Mezzer better when going fast, this didn't feel as composed
In another league on small bump compliance vs. RC2
Good oh **** moment behavior
I liked the mid corner behavior, good bump absorption & support, same confidence as Mezzer but in a different way
Easy to set up despite all the knobs

*Mezzer (IRT 82 PSI, Main 49 PSI, HSC 3 and 2, LSC 3, R 5) @ 160*
Did lower service after 20 hours, there was a bunch of grease in the IRT, post service impression:

Noticeably stiffer than Fox 36
Even better at covering my mistakes vs the RC2
Good feeling mid corner, even if a little rough on small bumps, the tire stays glued and the fork tracks great, you can feel the bumps but its not unsettling
Better small bump compliance vs the RC2 but not as good as the Grip 2 or the Metric
I haven't gotten to the magic carpet ride on steep terrain with the mid stroke support that I got with the RC2. Last park trip on very steep trails I ended up closing the compression all the way to get the support I wanted but small bump compliance suffered. Maybe I need more air in the IRT?

Overall I'd buy it again, and would pick it over a 36 Grip2. 
For pure speed the old RC2 in my 36 has a slight edge.


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

Reading back throught the thread, why is everyone dismissing all these major outlets reviews? They take the time to compare all the forks, play with setups, ride the same trail with the same bikes on the same days and mostly all come to the same conclusion (UK/US/German publications alike):


The damping could be improved (I tend to agree)
The manufacturing quality and consistency could be better (that seems to go for all major OEM but somehow they send good forks in for reviews more often than Hayes does)

Important note: *Hayes customer support has been great to deal with.* There might be issues but they are addressing them quickly and in a satisfying way. I got replies to my inquiries within hours and spares as needed within days.

On the other end of the scale XFusion customer support and documentation is a complete disaster. They could make the greatest fork on earth, I would not consider it until they revamped how they deal with people.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

az6669 said:


> Reading back throught the thread, why is everyone dismissing all these major outlets reviews? They take the time to compare all the forks, play with setups, ride the same trail with the same bikes on the same days and mostly all come to the same conclusion (UK/US/German publications alike):
> 
> 
> The damping could be improved (I tend to agree)
> ...


I completely agree. I have had my fair share of manufacturing issues with this fork. But every time I contact Hayes they have been great to me. So I can't fault them too hard. Their customer service is second only to DVO. The 2020 was definitely heavily damped but sounds like they have fixed that with the 2021 which is good.

overall it's a great fork, but with the issues I'm not sure I'd buy another one. There's also no other fork that I really am dying to ride at the moment. Besides, maybe trying a coil.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

I don’t remember seeing any discussion about this, but has anyone considered 3d printing some travel spacers with a smaller diameter to give the negative spring a larger volume? I’ve just recently received my Mezzer LE and haven’t been able to ride it yet, but I have access to 3D printer and was curious if anyone had done this and it was worth experimenting with since there does seem to be some talk that the small bump sensitivity could be slightly improved.


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

kapolczer said:


> I don't remember seeing any discussion about this, but has anyone considered 3d printing some travel spacers with a smaller diameter to give the negative spring a larger volume? I've just recently received my Mezzer LE and haven't been able to ride it yet, but I have access to 3D printer and was curious if anyone had done this and it was worth experimenting with since there does seem to be some talk that the small bump sensitivity could be slightly improved.


You could try cutting / filling some material off the travel spacers to reduce the OD


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Dougal said:


> That's the damper oil. Not needed for lower leg service.
> 
> This is the lower leg oil: 5/40 Wt Semi-Bath Fork Oil


Not found a place selling it here. Is this the same stuff https://www.motorex.com/en-us/moto-line/motor-oil/power-synt-4t-sae-5w40/

At least the Manitou label suggests it is might be.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Paul in CH said:


> Not found a place selling it here. Is this the same stuff https://www.motorex.com/en-us/moto-line/motor-oil/power-synt-4t-sae-5w40/
> 
> At least the Manitou label suggests it is might be.


Yes.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

IMG_0661.MOV







drive.google.com





can anyone tell me if this sounds normal or not? My first mezzer made damper noise, second one did not. After the bleed port incident it now makes noise. Only makes noise when quickly rebounding. No noise on smaller or slower rebounds. Just hoping I can ride on it for a day or two until my new fork gets here while this one if off with manitou


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Hey guys, set up advise requested before I start twisting knobs. 

I'm about 188#s geared up running my Mezzer LE at 160mm travel and I set up my IRT at 78 psi and my main chamber to 51.5 psi. This gave me exactly 22% sag on the fork in the standing attack position which was the primary factor in me choosing that spring/ air rate. I'm a believer in setting sag correctly before anything else and pretty much keeping it there. I did remeasure after break in and no change. 

I set all damper settings in the middle of the recommendations for 'Enduro Tuning' from the Mezzer manual and frankly the fork has felt amazing from the first pedal stroke on my '21 Evo.

I had bottomed the Mezzer out on trail rides but it wasn't every ride and I couldn't even feel it. 

Today however I rode a pretty intense trail and although I wasn't exactly killing it, the G-out, jumps, and extended downhill sections where I had to use a lot of brakes the Mezzer was just too divey, not quite enough support, and was using up all the travel often. I kept resetting the travel indicator o-ring and it was getting bottomed out again and again at about 2mm from touching the fork crown. 

I'm aware of the 2/3 rule regarding Main = .66 * IRT, but this is clearly just a good starting point?

I figured I'd release my Main air chamber completely, then up my IRT 5psi, then refill my Main chamber to my current pressure that results in my 22% sag. Also figured I'd dial in 1-2 clicks LSC to just try and get it to hold up better on those long rough braking downhills. 

Does this sound like a wise setup direction?

Thanks for any input.

On edit. Reset IRT to 82psi (up 4 psi), but had to reduce Main pressure to 48.5 (down 3 psi) to maintain sag around 20-22%.
LSC was already only at 2 where-as HSC was out from clockwise at 3, so just clicked in HSC in 1 click as that should firm up both. 
Driveway test confirms that the Mezzer feels more supportive like this. 

Question, when setting front to rear suspension balance once spring rate is set can a firm bounce test suffice to try and balance LSC front to rear? I swear regarding the LSC from all the way in to all the way out on my EXT shock I really can't feel any difference, at least in my 'hood. Not sure how else to dial this in. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, set up advise requested before I start twisting knobs.
> 
> I'm about 188#s geared up running my Mezzer LE at 160mm travel and I set up my IRT at 78 psi and my main chamber to 51.5 psi. This gave me exactly 22% sag on the fork in the standing attack position which was the primary factor in me choosing that spring/ air rate. I'm a believer in setting sag correctly before anything else and pretty much keeping it there. I did remeasure after break in and no change.
> 
> ...


Seems like you are almost bang on with the spreadsheet pressure recommendation (50/83). I would try Dougal's technique of starting with no HSC and having LSC closed/almost closed for that braking support. I found that worked quite well for me too although I do add HSC depending on what I'm riding.

And I totally get what you mean about the EXT coil and being unable to tell any difference with the LSC adjustment.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, set up advise requested before I start twisting knobs.
> 
> I'm about 188#s geared up running my Mezzer LE at 160mm travel and I set up my IRT at 78 psi and my main chamber to 51.5 psi. This gave me exactly 22% sag on the fork in the standing attack position which was the primary factor in me choosing that spring/ air rate. I'm a believer in setting sag correctly before anything else and pretty much keeping it there. I did remeasure after break in and no change.
> 
> ...


I'm running same setup as you (Mezzer/storia). I have found that increasing the HSC to be effective at keep fork up in rough stuff more so than LSC. Have found it matches better with the damped feel of storia.

Getting in ballpark is as far as you can get on driveway imo. Once you're tuning things like LSC has to be trail tested and feel for balance.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, set up advise requested before I start twisting knobs.
> 
> I'm about 188#s geared up running my Mezzer LE at 160mm travel and I set up my IRT at 78 psi and my main chamber to 51.5 psi. This gave me exactly 22% sag on the fork in the standing attack position which was the primary factor in me choosing that spring/ air rate. I'm a believer in setting sag correctly before anything else and pretty much keeping it there. I did remeasure after break in and no change.
> 
> ...


My suggestion. Forget sag, tune for response and set damping according to my guide: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/catalog/category/view/id/1201

If a fork is too high and hasn't got enough LSC it will feel more divey than a fork that is softer and has more LSC.


----------



## funkymonks (Aug 23, 2017)

Man these things are impossible to find (29er, 160mm, 44mm offset).  I was late jumping on the sale they had before Christmas and was a little disappointed I'd be paying MSRP, but at this rate I will happily pay full price just to get one before spring comes. I am ready to put my Ribbon behind me.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

funkymonks said:


> Man these things are impossible to find (29er, 160mm, 44mm offset). I was late jumping on the sale they had before Christmas and was a little disappointed I'd be paying MSRP, but at this rate I will happily pay full price just to get one before spring comes. I am ready to put my Ribbon behind me.


Another soon to be former Ribbon owner here. Word is soon on that config. We're both waiting on the same thing.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

funkymonks said:


> Man these things are impossible to find (29er, 160mm, 44mm offset). I was late jumping on the sale they had before Christmas and was a little disappointed I'd be paying MSRP, but at this rate I will happily pay full price just to get one before spring comes. I am ready to put my Ribbon behind me.


LOL! I still need to sell my Ribbon coil since I put a Mezzer on my bike. I've been too sick lately to ride it very much and dial it in. I only have two rides on it and it seems nice, but I really need to take it on some more serious terrain.

Let's not bag on the Ribbon too much here until I sell mine. 😉


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

funkymonks said:


> Man these things are impossible to find (29er, 160mm, 44mm offset). I was late jumping on the sale they had before Christmas and was a little disappointed I'd be paying MSRP, but at this rate I will happily pay full price just to get one before spring comes. I am ready to put my Ribbon behind me.


Dont worry about the travel if there's something in stock. The Mezzer includes everything you need to adjust the travel and you should be tearing it down to properly lube everything anyways.



Curveball said:


> LOL! I still need to sell my Ribbon coil since I put a Mezzer on my bike. I've been too sick lately to ride it very much and dial it in. I only have two rides on it and it seems nice, but I really need to take it on some more serious terrain.
> 
> Let's not bag on the Ribbon too much here until I sell mine. ?


Same, same.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, set up advise requested before I start twisting knobs.
> 
> I'm about 188#s geared up running my Mezzer LE at 160mm travel and I set up my IRT at 78 psi and my main chamber to 51.5 psi. This gave me exactly 22% sag on the fork in the standing attack position which was the primary factor in me choosing that spring/ air rate. I'm a believer in setting sag correctly before anything else and pretty much keeping it there. I did remeasure after break in and no change.
> 
> ...


My method worked very well. I maintained my sag measurement and just gained a nice midrange support and bottom out support. Had a good hard trail ride but no drops larger than about 3' and the fork did exactly what I would expect, left a solid 1" of unused travel. That's about the reserve I want for big days. 
It's a great fork.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

funkymonks said:


> Man these things are impossible to find (29er, 160mm, 44mm offset). I was late jumping on the sale they had before Christmas and was a little disappointed I'd be paying MSRP, but at this rate I will happily pay full price just to get one before spring comes. I am ready to put my Ribbon behind me.


Hmmm, why not just by the 180mm fork @ 29er, 44mm offset - it's dead easy to change the travel.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

funks said:


> Hmmm, why not just by the 180mm fork @ 29er, 44mm offset - it's dead easy to change the travel.


I think the issue is the fork is only available in 51mm offset (at least that's what I'm seeing that is available)


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> _edit_
> 
> Just watched it properly. Sticker say it's the MY21 fork. Not sure which damper tune he's got. Weird that he thought it was overdamped on rebound.
> _/edit_
> ...


Says he was running compression and rebound fully open. 85kg, roughly 61psi (main) with 85psi (IRT)


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

funks said:


> Hmmm, why not just by the 180mm fork @ 29er, 44mm offset - it's dead easy to change the travel.


I'll buy whatever is available first, gotta open it up to change to 150 either way. It's the 44mm CSU that's not available. Contemplating getting the 51 though, not sure how much really matters.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Dougal said:


> _edit_
> 
> Just watched it properly. Sticker say it's the MY21 fork. Not sure which damper tune he's got. Weird that he thought it was overdamped on rebound.
> _/edit_
> ...


I have an LE that I've just ordered. How would I tell if it is the MY21?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Headoc said:


> I have an LE that I've just ordered. How would I tell if it is the MY21?


It will be because it's an LE.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

kiotae said:


> I'll buy whatever is available first, gotta open it up to change to 150 either way. It's the 44mm CSU that's not available. Contemplating getting the 51 though, not sure how much really matters.


From what I gather, the offset is perceptible if you ride them back-to-back but negligible if you don't and you really have to go over a 10mm difference to have a noticeable effect on handling. That being said, I haven't been willing to stray more than a couple of mm from my bike's stock offset myself.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

az6669 said:


> You could try cutting / filling some material off the travel spacers to reduce the OD


I'm undecided on whether to go 160 or 170 with my Mezzer, so I've been using the fill the main/negative chamber with the fork compressed a set amount method to test both out. Its been working good so far. This also gives you more negative chamber volume since no spacers are needed.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Ouch. Heard back from Hayes about my warranty. The good news is, it’s covered under warranty. The bad news is, they won’t be able to replace my lower casting for almost 2 months.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

megablue said:


> Ouch. Heard back from Hayes about my warranty. The good news is, it's covered under warranty. The bad news is, they won't be able to replace my lower casting for almost 2 months.


Oof, it's the port threads and fender threads only right?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Oof, it's the port threads and fender threads only right?


I didn't even tell them about the fender threads. Just the TSR port. Tried to ride it yesterday in hopes it was rideable, but, it just started shooting oil out of the TSR port.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

megablue said:


> I didn't even tell them about the fender threads. Just the TSR port. Tried to ride it yesterday in hopes it was rideable, but, it just started shooting oil out of the TSR port.


I'd imagine that there's a way to plug that up with a tiny bit of caulk or plastic screw that will deform a bit to fit. Guess it depends on how much pressure is generated.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

kiotae said:


> I'd imagine that there's a way to plug that up with a tiny bit of caulk or plastic screw that will deform a bit to fit. Guess it depends on how much pressure is generated.


If new lowers will come in 2 month, I'd JB Weld them from the inside.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

kiotae said:


> I'd imagine that there's a way to plug that up with a tiny bit of caulk or plastic screw that will deform a bit to fit. Guess it depends on how much pressure is generated.


Yeah waiting to hear back as I asked them for suggestions. My only fear is having something get into the port and messing the damper up since it's the damper side port that's the problem.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

megablue said:


> Yeah waiting to hear back as I asked them for suggestions. My only fear is having something get into the port and messing the damper up since it's the damper side port that's the problem.


Would it be possible to tap it to the next size up ?


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Would it be possible to tap it to the next size up ?


It's possible but I don't have a tap and die set that would fit that hole. I've also never tapped magnesium before and not sure how it would react.


----------



## manelnunez (Aug 31, 2011)

Hi at all, from which date of manufacture the problem os loose bushings were solved? 

Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

POAH said:


> Says he was running compression and rebound fully open. 85kg, roughly 61psi (main) with 85psi (IRT)


That's just weird. Does the guy need a setup guide?


----------



## Th3Bill (Jan 30, 2016)

megablue said:


> Ouch. Heard back from Hayes about my warranty. The good news is, it's covered under warranty. The bad news is, they won't be able to replace my lower casting for almost 2 months.


I was told end of February last Monday.
Saturday, look what showed up









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Has anyone documented the rebound stack in these? The search thread function seems to have vanished so sorry if it's already been posted


----------



## BavarianBarbrian (Sep 4, 2020)

i wanna second that request.
Also is there an easy way to speed the rebound up a bit without reshimming the rebound circuit? (50/90 psi but the fork doesnt recover as fast as id like even when rebound fully open)


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Th3Bill said:


> I was told end of February last Monday.
> Saturday, look what showed up
> 
> 
> ...


Hm interesting. They told me there won't be any in stock until after the first of March. I'm sending them off to them because I'm fairly certain metal got into the lowers as well. Going to try and convince them to swap in the 2021 damper if it does take that long lol


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

GiddyHitch said:


> From what I gather, the offset is perceptible if you ride them back-to-back but negligible if you don't and you really have to go over a 10mm difference to have a noticeable effect on handling. That being said, I haven't been willing to stray more than a couple of mm from my bike's stock offset myself.


That's what I'm seeing as well. At the same time, I like how my bike handles and not overly interested in changing that if I can help it. I'll probably hold out a bit longer if I can get my other fork back working somewhat properly. If not, than my patience will diminish quickly.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> That's just weird. Does the guy need a setup guide?


recon so


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

spo0n said:


> Has anyone documented the rebound stack in these? The search thread function seems to have vanished so sorry if it's already been posted












Piston

13.0x6.0x0.10
9.0x6.0x0.10
13.0x6.0x0.10
13.0x6.0x0.10
8.5x6.0x0.20
8.5x6.0x0.20
12.0x6.0x1.0

EDIT: The piston appears to be dished and Dougal confirmed that it is. Hard to tell how much it is dished. I'm guessing it's 0.1mm so the 9mmx0.1mm shim makes it so only the first shim is preloaded. I'll see if I can get an actual measurement on it though.

If you just want to soften up rebound at mid/high shaft speeds you could probably just remove the top 13mm shim.

If you are having packing issues and rebound is fully open, you might have to lap the piston flat, move the 9mmx1.0 shim to the top of the stack and then remove one 13mm shim. Might not hurt to change the other 13mm shim for maybe like a 12/11mm shim to make it more like a tapered stack.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Read THE LPAM WOLFES REVIEW for adjusting the fork. The guy from Manitou uses that much IRT pressure till you do hVe tge reserves of travel you want. 
The main chamber gets dialed in via pressuere while compression is open and if it feels to divey first close the lsc for some clicks. If this isn't enough, open lsc again and pressure up 2-3 psi. 
He usually leaves hsc open


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Still do not know which I should take, Mezzer or Fox 36 2021. I only have one bike for all, but I am not the bike park rider. But especially due to the fact that I own only one bike the customer service should work (if necessary, hopefully not) and I am a little bit afraid that Manitou will be not the best here in Germany (even I cannot judge it basred on experience). Furthermore I have a Fox guy roughly 30km away from home how does service and tuning. But a lot people people praise the Mezzer (ok, lot of them are here) but the reviews of the 2021 Fox sounds very good too.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Lutsch said:


> Still do not know which I should take, Mezzer or Fox 36 2021. I only have one bike for all, but I am not the bike park rider. But especially due to the fact that I own only one bike the customer service should work (if necessary, hopefully not) and I am a little bit afraid that Manitou will be not the best here in Germany (even I cannot judge it basred on experience). Furthermore I have a Fox guy roughly 30km away from home how does service and tuning. But a lot people people praise the Mezzer (ok, lot of them are here) but the reviews of the 2021 Fox sounds very good too.


I am located in Germany also. If you ever run into a problem Hayes München is perfect. 
Ask the shop, if the y habe the newest version with the oil ports at the back. 
Rides great and lets you get it even to another level by sime shimming when the time for service comes.
You definitely do not get more for the greater amount if money from fox, besides more weight. 
Mezzer us the best firk I ever had. Some others need tuning before they offer similar performance. Only other above is the ERA, but it's double the price, too.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> Still do not know which I should take, Mezzer or Fox 36 2021. I only have one bike for all, but I am not the bike park rider. But especially due to the fact that I own only one bike the customer service should work (if necessary, hopefully not) and I am a little bit afraid that Manitou will be not the best here in Germany (even I cannot judge it basred on experience). Furthermore I have a Fox guy roughly 30km away from home how does service and tuning. But a lot people people praise the Mezzer (ok, lot of them are here) but the reviews of the 2021 Fox sounds very good too.


I haven't ridden the 21 F36. But the 20 vs Mezzer was no comparison. I needed a Vorsprung Secus, burnished bushings, damper mid-valve modifications and revalve on both compression and rebound to make it acceptable.

I honestly don't know how people win races on those forks.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Any suggestions on a good shim kit for tinkering with the tunes on the Mezzer and the Mara?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Any suggestions on a good shim kit for tinkering with the tunes on the Mezzer and the Mara?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk








ABS+ Tuning Mini Kit (Manitou) | Shockcraft


Shims, balls & springs for DIY tuning of Manitou ABS+ compression dampers Manitou Part Code: 141-32511-K001




www.shockcraft.co.nz


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> ABS+ Tuning Mini Kit (Manitou) | Shockcraft
> 
> 
> Shims, balls & springs for DIY tuning of Manitou ABS+ compression dampers Manitou Part Code: 141-32511-K001
> ...


I wish you were closer!

$21 to ship a $14 shim kit stings a little.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So get this, I was talking with a rep during the emails revolving my warranty. I asked if they could put in the MY21 damper/tune on mine while it was in. The rep told me that they have not made any changes to the damper or shim stack since production. I thought it was pretty well documented here that there was a change. I was also told that “there is some misinformation being spread on forums that we changed the shim stack for MY21 but it is all false.”
That didn’t really sit well with me.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> ABS+ Tuning Mini Kit (Manitou) | Shockcraft
> 
> 
> Shims, balls & springs for DIY tuning of Manitou ABS+ compression dampers Manitou Part Code: 141-32511-K001
> ...


Aren't the shims in the mezzer 6mm ID shims and that kit 8mm?

EDIT: guess that would be for the basevalve but not rebound.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Aren't the shims in the mezzer 6mm ID shims and that kit 8mm?
> 
> EDIT: guess that would be for the basevalve but not rebound.


Rebound is indeed 6mm. But compression basevalve shims are 8mm.



CCS86 said:


> I wish you were closer!
> 
> $21 to ship a $14 shim kit stings a little.


We do have ~3000 other products to dilute the shipping with!
Or just consider it still great value at under $2 per shim.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Rebound is indeed 6mm. But compression basevalve shims are 8mm.
> 
> We do have ~3000 other products to dilute the shipping with!
> Or just consider it still great value at under $2 per shim.


Dougal is there something similar for 6mm ID?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> Dougal is there something similar for 6mm ID?


Not that I know of.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

spo0n said:


> Dougal is there something similar for 6mm ID?


all old RS Vivid/Monarch use 6mm, I bought some Vivid Tunes kits (as it was A B C tune for the 5.1 model) long time ago and they're still useful 

like this one








RockShox Distanzplättchen 5.1 Tune B für Vivid '08-'10 kau


Bestellen Sie günstig und schnell RockShox Distanzplättchen 5.1




hollandbikeshop.com


----------



## SasquatchMTB (Dec 29, 2020)

How do you guys like the Mezzer Expert? The Pro has lots of options that l would probably mess up.


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

SasquatchMTB said:


> The Pro has lots of options that l would probably mess up.


main air pressure + IRT pressure vs. main pressure + number of token? rebound adjustment is the same, only compression damping has one external adjustment less.


----------



## tempmeister (Nov 16, 2020)

jmvar said:


> With the help of a couple forum members I have put together this guide to remove the extra 17.5 mm shim for the Mezzer Pro.
> 
> I am not a suspension expert by any means. This is not an extensive guide and assumes knowledge and tools. Proceed at your own risk. You will need the "Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide" posted here and on the Manitou site as a supplement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the guide - it's a great bit of work. I was able to strip my damper at the weekend and remove the extra 17.5mm shim.

While I was there I also took the opportunity to lap the rebound piston flat and replace the oil with something a bit lighter. Thanks Mike156 and Dougal for info on this.

Looking forward to trying the fork out, although got a partially built bike to finish and put it on, so might be a week or two!


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Lutsch said:


> Still do not know which I should take, Mezzer or Fox 36 2021. I only have one bike for all, but I am not the bike park rider. But especially due to the fact that I own only one bike the customer service should work (if necessary, hopefully not) and I am a little bit afraid that Manitou will be not the best here in Germany (even I cannot judge it basred on experience). Furthermore I have a Fox guy roughly 30km away from home how does service and tuning. But a lot people people praise the Mezzer (ok, lot of them are here) but the reviews of the 2021 Fox sounds very good too.


Have ridden both. First, Mezzer is lights out better then 2020 Fox 36 / Lyrik ultimate which I've also ridden, which is why it has so many fans here. Vs. 2021 Fox 36 is more of a draw. Seems like the tweaked EVOL air spring helped catch up. I went with the fox as it fit my riding style slightly better. Differences: Mezzer rides slightly higher in its travel as everyone reports. It does great with small bump compliance and mid stroke support. I found that the fox did a little better with repeated small bumps like braking bumps. Would not have thought anything about the Mezzer in that situation except rode the fox back to back on same bike and can say that the braking bumps and repeated roots and rocks just kinda disappear under the new 36 but are more noticeable under the Mezzer. Mezzer feels good everywhere else, but Fox is slightly easier to set up and offers broader range of usable adjustability on trail. However, once Mezzer is set up you can pretty much just leave it alone and it does its thing. Can't tell the difference in stiffness with new 2021 Fox, but could tell the difference with the 2020 Fox36 with the Mezzer being more stiff. You really can't go wrong with either fork. Frankly, if you thought the Mezzer looked cooler that'd be a reason to go with it as performance is really a wash. Never had a single quality issue with the Mezzer. Fork came with updated lowers so never experienced bushing play. Fox36 played well right out of the box so I didn't drop the lowers like I did on my 2020 36. Of course YMMV.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I managed to actually get my hands on a 44mm offset Mezzer, but without combing through the entire thread, I cannot tell if it has the updated lowers or shimstack. Before I pull it apart to change the travel, I would like to know if I should be going into the damper side. It will it at 150mm, am 195 pounds, I don't do big jumps, my style tends to be aim, hold on, pray. Production date shows at 2020/8/6, see the attached.

Also, always make sure if you order a Mara you specify regular or Pro. Imagine my surprise when I found out I ordered the wrong shock.

Thanks


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

Mine has the same day as manufacturing date. It definitely has the updated lowers but I don't know about shims. What I can say is that it felt very good on my first rides and I won't do anything to the damper until I think there's any need.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

frischensbub said:


> Mine has the same day as manufacturing date. It definitely has the updated lowers but I don't know about shims. What I can say is that it felt very good on my first rides and I won't do anything to the damper until I think there's any need.


Same DOM for me as well. I have updated lowers and it didn't feel any harshness on few rides I've gotten on it. Another interesting thing is my crown casting has "19" on it. I guess that isn't a good way to guess DOM. I'm curious about what shims are in my damper too, but I'll be leaving it alone for now.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks. Will just do the travel for now and see how it feels.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

megablue said:


> So get this, I was talking with a rep during the emails revolving my warranty. I asked if they could put in the MY21 damper/tune on mine while it was in. The rep told me that they have not made any changes to the damper or shim stack since production. I thought it was pretty well documented here that there was a change. I was also told that "there is some misinformation being spread on forums that we changed the shim stack for MY21 but it is all false."
> That didn't really sit well with me.


So I went back to the Engineers and they told me the softer shim stack never made production. I've stripped apart a MY20 and MY21 damper here and confirmed they're all using two 17.5mm intermediate shims.
So apologies for the confusion on that one.

The MY21 does however have a softer rebound tune than MY20.

I have had three Mezzer dampers in the workshop. A used MY20 which I rebled with stock oil, a brand new MY21 (from my LE) and a custom tuned MY20 which I run in my own forks. I've run all these on the dyno up to 1m/s. I also removed the second 17.5mm shim from the MY21 to run that for comparison.

I won't post up any graphs yet as it takes a fair bit of editing to show things clearly and not give away too much information. I also want to run them faster but may need to run special rebound tunes to avoid damaging the damper at those speeds. This all gets quite time consuming.

My custom tuned damper (I run a 12mm shim in place of the second 17.5mm) is about 20% softer than the stock compression tune @ 1m/s with LSC Closed on both. It's more like 25% softer at very low speeds.
Removing the 17.5mm shim (soft tune) drops compression at 1m/s by about another 10% compared to my tune.

MY21 rebound tune is about 25% softer. Both are two stage shim-stacks, the MY21 has one less shim in the second stage.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Thanks for the update Dougal.

I'm going to pull my damper apart soon to try the softened compression tune. 

I wouldn't mind softening the rebound as well. Does the rebound shim removal affect LSR, HSR, or both?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I know you have an MC2 high flow piston for the older forks. Does the Mezzer not need it? Is the Mezzer's damper significantly different, despite having the same name?


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> I won't post up any graphs yet as it takes a fair bit of editing to show things clearly and not give away too much information. I also want to run them faster but may need to run special rebound tunes to avoid damaging the damper at those speeds. This all gets quite time consuming.


What is the benefit of creating graphs exceeding 1m/s if speeds higher than that will damage the damper without special rebound tunes? Doesn't that mean those excessive speeds are not real world?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

006_007 said:


> What is the benefit of creating graphs exceeding 1m/s if speeds higher than that will damage the damper without special rebound tunes? Doesn't that mean those excessive speeds are not real world?


My guess is that the rig has to rebound at the same speed it compresses. Rebound shaft speed max is much lower than compression in the real world.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

Dougal, I'm also interested in the MY21 rebound tune if you can post which shim needs to be removed. Recently added a high flow piston to my RC4 shock and now the mezzer can't keep up.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> So I went back to the Engineers and they told me the softer shim stack never made production. I've stripped apart a MY20 and MY21 damper here and confirmed they're all using two 17.5mm intermediate shims.
> So apologies for the confusion on that one.
> 
> The MY21 does however have a softer rebound tune than MY20.
> ...


Do you know the shim stack configurations for the two rebounds?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Thanks for the update Dougal.
> 
> I'm going to pull my damper apart soon to try the softened compression tune.
> 
> I wouldn't mind softening the rebound as well. Does the rebound shim removal affect LSR, HSR, or both?


MY20 Dual Stage rebound shim layout (I haven't confirmed all sizes/thicknesses right now)
Piston
Shim
Crossover shim
Shim
Shim
Clamp washer
Clamp washer
Mount

MY21 Dual Stage rebound shim layout
Piston
Shim
Crossover shim
Shim
Clamp washer
Clamp washer
Mount.

It'll only really affect HSR. Until the first shim and cross-over are stiffened or contact the second it won't make much difference.



CCS86 said:


> I know you have an MC2 high flow piston for the older forks. Does the Mezzer not need it? Is the Mezzer's damper significantly different, despite having the same name?


Mezzer has a high flow piston, they copied me but slightly smaller ports. I'm did tell them to.



006_007 said:


> What is the benefit of creating graphs exceeding 1m/s if speeds higher than that will damage the damper without special rebound tunes? Doesn't that mean those excessive speeds are not real world?





CCS86 said:


> My guess is that the rig has to rebound at the same speed it compresses. Rebound shaft speed max is much lower than compression in the real world.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yes. Compression speeds can keep pushing higher, rebound speeds in reality get slower with more damping.
But on a dyno you fix the speed and just get more force. Too much rebound force could damage the damper. 
I don't yet know where the damper limits lie and don't want to destroy stuff by accident.



skulltractor said:


> Dougal, I'm also interested in the MY21 rebound tune if you can post which shim needs to be removed. Recently added a high flow piston to my RC4 shock and now the mezzer can't keep up.





Cary said:


> Do you know the shim stack configurations for the two rebounds?


See above for layout differences.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

For an ~160lb rider who rides mostly natural (quite rooty/rocky) trails at fun fast, but not bonkers speeds, do you think the '21 damper is a good fit in stock form? I'll be at 150mm. I generally like my rebound pretty fast and ride in the 20F-40F temp range a lot. Eventually I may get a custom tune, but it's not something want to do myself or send off immediately after buying.


----------



## Leefr (Dec 16, 2020)

Hey guys.. just found this review of the mezzer.. a creative interpretation of the review format...


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kiotae said:


> For an ~160lb rider who rides mostly natural (quite rooty/rocky) trails at fun fast, but not bonkers speeds, do you think the '21 damper is a good fit in stock form? I'll be at 150mm. I generally like my rebound pretty fast and ride in the 20F-40F temp range a lot. Eventually I may get a custom tune, but it's not something want to do myself or send off immediately after buying.


I weigh the same and ride similar terrain, but about 10F warmer than you do. I'm running at 170 mm and some pretty steep trails. If yours is a MY '21 then I think you have the good rebound. For our weight, I think removing that 17.5 mm compression shim might be a good idea. I'm not very inclined to tear my fork apart just yet though. That may wait for the annual damper service.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in these 146 pages of posts, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking (even using the search feature. I'm not good at tech stuff). I got my Mezzer Pro a few months ago, and will be building my bike up sometime in the next month or so, and saw on the videos that I need some special tool to remove the dampers and air springs from the stanchion tubes? I think it's like an HG Cassette tool, something like one of these?









And I remember reading on some review about the fork, that you either need a tool like that, that will fit inside the Mezzer or you have to pay 60 bucks for 3 tiny little tools from Hayes that you may only use a few times ever.

This is the exact product/description from Hayes: "modified cassette tool required in removing dampers and air springs from the stanchion tubes, a thin wall 8mm socket to remove the lower legs of any Expert air or Dorado air fork, and a flat ground 24mm socket to remove your IVA or IRT."









So I'm just wondering what tools I do need and which ones I don't? Do I need to remove the lower legs of an Expert Air or Dorado air fork? I don't think I do, I have a Mezzer Pro. But...it does have the Dorado Air cartridge in it? So that is confusing me.

And do I need to remove my IRT system? I don't think I will, as I won't be servicing the fork myself ever or for some time at least.

I am already buying all sorts of tools I'll never use again to build this bike and don't want to waste more money on more tools I don't need or use. For now, I'll be sending my fork in for repairs or service (not doing it myself). The only thing I need to do on my own is change the travel with the spacers from 180 to 160. So of those 3 tools, which one/s do I ABSOLUTELY need? And what tool can I buy on the internet that will do the same thing as the Hayes version? I've read that certain Cassette tools will work, and others won't, because of the thickness of the tool or shape or something like that. Thanks


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

SuperWookie said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in these 146 pages of posts, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking (even using the search feature. I'm not good at tech stuff). I got my Mezzer Pro a few months ago, and will be building my bike up sometime in the next month or so, and saw on the videos that I need some special tool to remove the dampers and air springs from the stanchion tubes? I think it's like an HG Cassette tool, something like one of these?
> View attachment 1913724
> 
> 
> ...


You just need a long cassette tool. If you push the air spring the whole way in it should fit over the top. 
And a 14mm spanner/socket and some Allen keys. 
And a torque wrench for the 3nm on the air spring.

I have this one. Cheap on eBay.

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> It'll only really affect HSR. Until the first shim and cross-over are stiffened or contact the second it won't make much difference.


What about the rebound adjuster? Predominately low speed, or does its effect bleed into high speed as well?

I wonder if those who have complained about slow rebound were feeling a somewhat stiff HSR stack and winding the LSR adjust out trying to compensate.

I had been running my Mezzer (MY20) rebound at -8 from closed. To keep good balance off jumps, this meant running my Mara Pro rebound only 1 click out. Today, I wound the Mezzer out to full open +1 click; and set the Mara to 5 out. Wow, it was surprisingly good. Definitely more active and alive feeling, better on those rapid succession high-speed compression events (one of the few areas I wanted to improve), more air off of jumps, and even felt better mid-corner grip. We had some hero dirt today and I was really pushing on the front, and not a single slide. On the same trails, last time out, I had like 4 big, long front end slides (saved 3 ). I guess that I was packing a little, with the previous settings. I like having the Mara rebound opened up a bit and the take off balance felt great.

Now, I'm even more excited to pull one of the rebound shims, knock the piston face flat, and pull one of the compression shims out.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> What about the rebound adjuster? Predominately low speed, or does its effect bleed into high speed as well?
> 
> I wonder if those who have complained about slow rebound were feeling a somewhat stiff HSR stack and winding the LSR adjust out trying to compensate.
> 
> ...





CCS86 said:


> Thanks for the update Dougal.
> 
> I'm going to pull my damper apart soon to try the softened compression tune.
> 
> I wouldn't mind softening the rebound as well. Does the rebound shim removal affect LSR, HSR, or both?


I am curious about this as well. I have always ran rebound either close to wide open or +1 from open. Just feels a bit slow otherwise, and it's especially noticeable going between bikes with different forks. Now that I have the compression shim removed, I have gone a few psi up in both chambers which helps a bit. Though I am still interested in lighter rebound


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Hey, for damper disassembly, what size shaft clamps do I need?

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

No clamps needed. It's got spanner flats on the piston mount.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

megablue said:


> I've about had it with my issues with this fork. In the few months I've owned it I've had to send it in for the CSU creaking, sent it in again for a damper issue and had the damper replaced, then the screw holes for the mud guard stripped, now tonight the bleed port screw stripped the threads out of the lower casting while I did another 25 hour service. I'm hoping Hayes will fix this as well. I was able to get the screw to thread back in on the remaining amount of threading (not much) but the fork sounds super loud now. I think air is getting into the lowers of the damper side now. I'm going to try and upload a video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Recently i received my fork from StarBike that was fixed under the warranty (scratches on the stanchions). I have the same noise now (i remember that before they repair it the fork was silent). Did you find the reason of this sound? When my fork was in starbike, i bought a Suntour as a temporary fork, and suntour makes more horrible sounds: Suntour Durolux With RC PCS cartridge Video - Pinkbike

UPD: just make one ride and found that scratch start occuring in exactly the same place, something from the inside still scratching the stanchions. StarBike replaced the CSU, but didn't check the source of this scratch? Omg, i start regret about choosing this fork.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Heya,

I'm thinking about the Mezzer expert for my MY18 Hightower, I don't think I need too much travel (140-150 will be enough) - What's your opinion about it? (I can't search this thread for some reason..)


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

hello folk, i would like to improve the small bump compliance of mezzer pro.
except changing the oil viscosity and removing extra shim on damepr and rebound,
i want to know if i can use a Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit on mezzer pro,
to increase the size of negative air chamber.
any thought about my proposal?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Starry Firmament said:


> hello folk, i would like to improve the small bump compliance of mezzer pro.
> except changing the oil viscosity and removing extra shim on damepr and rebound,
> i want to know if i can use a Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit on mezzer pro,
> to increase the size of negative air chamber.
> any thought about my proposal?


 no you can't


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

ForMartha said:


> Heya,
> 
> I'm thinking about the Mezzer expert for my MY18 Hightower, I don't think I need too much travel (140-150 will be enough) - What's your opinion about it? (I can't search this thread for some reason..)


yes I think it is a good idea


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

SuperWookie said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in these 146 pages of posts, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking (even using the search feature. I'm not good at tech stuff). I got my Mezzer Pro a few months ago, and will be building my bike up sometime in the next month or so, and saw on the videos that I need some special tool to remove the dampers and air springs from the stanchion tubes? I think it's like an HG Cassette tool, something like one of these?
> View attachment 1913724
> 
> 
> ...


The Manitou tech docs I read specifically mention the park fr 5.2 as working for air spring travel change.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

POAH said:


> yes I think it is a good idea


Thanks,
How about 44mm offset vs 51mm offset? not sure what to pick.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

I am considering the mezzer expert (maybe upgraded with IRT).

Anyone with experience on the expert? How is it vs the pro?
Going on a TB4 - 130mm travel.

This or a fractive tuned F34 (2021 fork with a 19' FIT4 fractive)?

Thanks 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> No clamps needed. It's got spanner flats on the piston mount.
> 
> Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


So, there is an alternative to this approach?










:EDIT:

I yanked the damper and that shaft pictured is 16.26mm. Printing a soft jaw now.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

POAH said:


> no you can't


thanks for your reply.
do upgrade part like damper or any other kit exist?
as far as i know, there are some Air Spring Upgrade Kit and Air Piston kit for fox and rockshox.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

MsvSpaz said:


> You just need a long cassette tool. If you push the air spring the whole way in it should fit over the top.
> And a 14mm spanner/socket and some Allen keys.
> And a torque wrench for the 3nm on the air spring.
> 
> ...


Can you post the link to that tool here please or PM me the link. Those are just photos, they aren't taking me to the tool and don't tell you anything about what brand or model it is. Also, when you and others say it's a "long Shimano Cassette tool", can you share other examples please since I don't know the difference between short or long cassette tools. Thanks for explaining.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

As a 155lb aggressive rider, I would not want compression any softer than it already is. I run my HSC 3-4 clicks out from open already. Just a heads up that softening HSC may not be the best move for everyone.

Faster HSR would be interesting to try for me though. Unsure what stack I have.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
Could anyone confirm that this sound inside this part is normal?


----------



## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

SuperWookie said:


> Can you post the link to that tool here please or PM me the link. Those are just photos, they aren't taking me to the tool and don't tell you anything about what brand or model it is. Also, when you and others say it's a "long Shimano Cassette tool", can you share other examples please since I don't know the difference between short or long cassette tools. Thanks for explaining.


Here is the eBay link, it shows a long and short tool. It seems they are our of stock of the long at the moment, but you can see what I mean.









Bicycle Lockring Sleeve Cassette Flywheel Removal Freewheel Remover Repair Tool | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bicycle Lockring Sleeve Cassette Flywheel Removal Freewheel Remover Repair Tool at the best online prices at eBay!



www.ebay.com.au





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

croakies said:


> As a 155lb aggressive rider, I would not want compression any softer than it already is. I run my HSC 3-4 clicks out from open already. Just a heads up that softening HSC may not be the best move for everyone.
> 
> Faster HSR would be interesting to try for me though. Unsure what stack I have.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Good to hear. Given what I'm coming from, even if the stock tune is less than ideal it's sure to be a far sight better than what I'm on now.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> Could anyone one confirm that this sound inside this part is normal?


Wind the HSC adjuster in 2 clicks. See if it still makes a sound.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Was the talk of a slightly dished face in the compression stack the shim backer cup, or the compression piston?

I definitely found that backer cup to be dished and I lapped it flat. Just wondering if the piston needs attention before I reassemble.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Leefr said:


> Hey guys.. just found this review of the mezzer.. a creative interpretation of the review format...


That's great. If anyone has contact details for that dude, please PM them through. I have some video ideas for him.

I was not expecting the "shockcraft 1 page tuning guide" at 7m20.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Starry Firmament said:


> hello folk, i would like to improve the small bump compliance of mezzer pro.
> except changing the oil viscosity and removing extra shim on damepr and rebound,
> i want to know if i can use a Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit on mezzer pro,
> to increase the size of negative air chamber.
> any thought about my proposal?


Secus doesn't fit or work. The Secus is there for single positive chamber forks to give them more mid-stroke support without excessive end-stroke ramp up.
The Manitou IRT system achieves a similar result with two tunable stages of positive air.

The Mezzer is very good on small bumps. Check yours is sliding correctly and check your pressures against others here.



OrenPerets said:


> I am considering the mezzer expert (maybe upgraded with IRT).
> 
> Anyone with experience on the expert? How is it vs the pro?
> Going on a TB4 - 130mm travel.
> ...


Expert is so new that most haven't seen it yet. It's the same chassis without IRT (can be upgraded) and with a simpler damper.

Absolutely no contest vs a F34.


----------



## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

I had a Mezzer pro 29 44 offset on order since late December with an eta of early February and now he's saying Manitou just told them not until May... Is that about what others in the US are hearing too on availability?


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Wind the HSC adjuster in 2 clicks. See if it still makes a sound.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I tried HSC fully open and fully closed and the sound of moving something inside was still in there.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> I tried HSC fully open and fully closed and the sound of moving something inside was still in there.


The HSC stack has less than 0 preload when it's wide open. So, that was the most likely culprit.

Maybe try the same with the LSC adjuster.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

hiss2 said:


> I had a Mezzer pro 29 44 offset on order since late December with an eta of early February and now he's saying Manitou just told them not until May... Is that about what others in the US are hearing too on availability?


Oof, that's a bit more of a wait than I'd been given initially as well. I may just go 51mm offset.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Has anyone noticed this behavior in the damper shaft seal head? When it is allowed to keep moving it glides very freely. But, as soon as it stops for even a few seconds, it tends to bind in that spot.

I had a light coat of lower leg oil on both sides of the shaft during this video. And even once the damper was filled with fork oil and bled the behavior didn't change much.






Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

croakies said:


> As a 155lb aggressive rider, I would not want compression any softer than it already is. I run my HSC 3-4 clicks out from open already. Just a heads up that softening HSC may not be the best move for everyone.
> 
> Faster HSR would be interesting to try for me though. Unsure what stack I have.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


What this guy said. Leave the damping alone.

Factory damping and recommended damping adjustments are dialed.

I find the IRT does very well set at a psi that matches my naked weight in kilograms, and then set the main chamber to 20-22% sag when standing in the attack position. This is on a Mezzer set at 160mm travel.

I'm not some super radical rider but do ride aggressively in some very rough terrain. I use all the travel on drops but also just on trail rides with no appreciable jumps or drops. Even using all the travel I never even feel the end of the travel.

It's a FANTASTIC fork, it really is.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Has anyone noticed this behavior in the damper shaft seal head? When it is allowed to keep moving it glides very freely. But, as soon as it stops for even a few seconds, it tends to bind in that spot.
> 
> I had a light coat of lower leg oil on both sides of the shaft during this video. And even once the damper was filled with fork oil and bled the behavior didn't change much.
> 
> ...


I checked one here, yes it does that too. Takes maybe 100-200g to break it free again.
Quad-rings can be quite sticky when they stop due to a suction effect between the lips. I've been meaning to swap more out with o-rings to see how much difference it makes. But I never have the spare time I think I have.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I checked one here, yes it does that too. Takes maybe 100-200g to break it free again.
> Quad-rings can be quite sticky when they stop due to a suction effect between the lips. I've been meaning to swap more out with o-rings to see how much difference it makes. But I never have the spare time I think I have.


Glad to hear it. Was hoping a didn't deform the seal head when I grabbed the hex in my vice!

Also, as a PSA to anyone disassembling the damper: I would not recommend using a plastic soft jaw to grab the damper tube, for the purpose of disassembly. At clamping loads well below what would keep it from slipping in the jaws, I saw evidence of that tube starting to deform. It's possible that a nearly full wrap, super tight fitting set could work. But PLA is pretty slippery stuff and squashing that tube would suck. I had great luck with a high quality rubber strap wrench to apply counter torque to the tube.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

nmxtrdr said:


> Thanks. My spacers are off to the point I don't think filing would make any difference unless they were filed to the point of fitting very loose. I'll ask for a new bag of spacers when I hear back from Hayes.
> 
> Regarding the pressure on piston. Wouldn't there be a load on it whenever the bike was sitting idle?


Did you get any feedback from Manitou?



CCS86 said:


> I am still running mostly factory spacers. But, I did sand them a bit to straighten them out. I only designed and printed 5mm versions to fine tune travel.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Can you share the file for printing and mybe the CAD file itself (I only play a little with freeCAD so the general .step or .iges hopefully will work)? I recently did some with freeCAD and hopefully I will be able to print them tomorrow but do not know when I could test them. At the moment it is more playing


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I would be interested in a 5mm spacer if anyone runs them and wants to sell one. I know nothing about 3d printing except it exists.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Hey @Dougal, I've been going through the Shockcraft oil charts and research. I appreciate all the work you put into that, it's been a huge help. One question I had - your charts cover Motorex 2.5w and 5w, but I notice a Motorex 4w suspension oil is also available. Just wondering if you've tested that one, as it seems like it might be a happy medium


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jakalwil said:


> Hey @Dougal, I've been going through the Shockcraft oil charts and research. I appreciate all the work you put into that, it's been a huge help. One question I had - your charts cover Motorex 2.5w and 5w, but I notice a Motorex 4w suspension oil is also available. Just wondering if you've tested that one, as it seems like it might be a happy medium


Yes I've tested the 4wt. It's very close to the Motorex 2.5wt and only really exists to satisfy a specific KTM moto specification.

I wasn't planning on stocking it, but now that Fox are using it I have some coming.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Lutsch said:


> Did you get any feedback from Manitou?


Initially they sent another bag of spacers, which were also crooked. After I questioned again Manitou said the crooked spacers are okay to use. Guess it's either a manufacturing defect they deem inconsequential, or intentional design.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> So I went back to the Engineers and they told me the softer shim stack never made production. I've stripped apart a MY20 and MY21 damper here and confirmed they're all using two 17.5mm intermediate shims.
> So apologies for the confusion on that one.
> 
> The MY21 does however have a softer rebound tune than MY20.
> ...


Thanks for the info.
Is the rebound intended to be a two stage stack, or is it more of a standard stack with preloaded face shim?

On the striction in the damper, it looks like the seal head has a standard oring in it and not a quad seal? It definitely seems to be the source of friction though and not the glider ring on the piston.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> So I went back to the Engineers and they told me the softer shim stack never made production. I've stripped apart a MY20 and MY21 damper here and confirmed they're all using two 17.5mm intermediate shims.
> So apologies for the confusion on that one.
> 
> The MY21 does however have a softer rebound tune than MY20.
> ...


Just had a mezzer damper apart and seen there is no real compression piston but only an aluminium plate with some holes in it. 
When is manitou going to build a real damping into that? 
I think with a well made compression piston it would be even better


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> Is the rebound intended to be a two stage stack, or is it more of a standard stack with preloaded face shim?
> 
> On the striction in the damper, it looks like the seal head has a standard oring in it and not a quad seal? It definitely seems to be the source of friction though and not the glider ring on the piston.
> View attachment 1914364


The MY20 I've been through definitely had a quad-ring. I haven't checked the end-cap seal in a MY21.



bansaiman said:


> Just had a mezzer damper apart and seen there is no real compression piston but only an aluminium plate with some holes in it.
> When is manitou going to build a real damping into that?
> I think with a well made compression piston it would be even better


Huh?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> The MY20 I've been through definitely had a quad-ring. I haven't checked the end-cap seal in a MY21.


Out of curiosity, is your MY20 an actual production unit?

I didn't pull the seal out, so I could be off but it looks like a normal oring to me in the picture above?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The MY20 I've been through definitely had a quad-ring. I haven't checked the end-cap seal in a MY21.
> 
> Huh?


As i was told by a mechanic this part where the compression shims sit on is no seperate piston but only a thick aluminium Plate instead with three holes and that's it


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> The HSC stack has less than 0 preload when it's wide open. So, that was the most likely culprit.
> 
> Maybe try the same with the LSC adjuster.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


So I tried with HSC fully open and closed and no result. There is something moving inside and the same with LSC fully open and closed.
I ask about it because as first time disassembled damper I thought there was nothing like that but maybe I was wrong.
So if anyone could confirm that there is something moving inside this part.
And also something like this happen:


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

I don't know if that is normal, but I do have a knocking sound deeper in the travel. It's kind of a louder "blop" every first cycle after the bike was standing a while and a more silent "blop" on every other cycle. The knobs have no affect on that "blop". I haven't ridden the fork much sice I bought it and tha was just 5 weeks ago. Does anyone experience the same?


----------



## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

Hi Guys, I have owned a Mezzer Pro for around 3 months now, and am on the verge of selling it (I have not got on with it at all)

I decided to have a read through this whole thread to see if I am missing something. There is much hype around this fork (especially in this thread) , even though all the group fork tests dont rate it at all, and I tend to be with them.

Its been feeling particularly awful recently, so I decided to have one last go with adjusting settings. I went to change the main chamber and this below is what I saw, the red air thingy is protruding? I tried to connect my shock pump anyway and it wont screw on all the way, and it wont engage.

I tried to push the red bit back in with a tool and a clear oily fluid came out? If I try to push the red bit back in more fluid comes out...I honestly just wish I spent the extra money and bought 38s/Zeb..at least they work. This fork is awesome if you want to spend more time adjusting it than riding a bike.

What you guys make of this?


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

frischensbub said:


> I don't know if that is normal, but I do have a knocking sound deeper in the travel. It's kind of a louder "blop" every first cycle after the bike was standing a while and a more silent "blop" on every other cycle. The knobs have no affect on that "blop". I haven't ridden the fork much sice I bought it and tha was just 5 weeks ago. Does anyone experience the same?


You did not mentioned what is "deeper in the travel". But at first cycle you usually has to break once the seal of the IRT. Same behavior has the AWK and I know this kind of sound, but only at the first compression. Maybe greace can reduce it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Skatefarmer said:


> Hi Guys, I have owned a Mezzer Pro for around 3 months now, and am on the verge of selling it (I have not got on with it at all)
> 
> I decided to have a read through this whole thread to see if I am missing something. There is much hype around this fork (especially in this thread) , even though all the group fork tests dont rate it at all, and I tend to be with them.
> 
> ...


Is your fork a29er with 44 mm offset?


----------



## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

bansaiman said:


> Is your fork a29er with 44 mm offset?


Yes exactly that, 180mm


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Skatefarmer said:


> Hi Guys, I have owned a Mezzer Pro for around 3 months now, and am on the verge of selling it (I have not got on with it at all)
> 
> I decided to have a read through this whole thread to see if I am missing something. There is much hype around this fork (especially in this thread) , even though all the group fork tests dont rate it at all, and I tend to be with them.
> 
> ...


Mine looks exactly the same.

Provide the following info:
travel:
wheel size:
rider weight:
settings:
IRT pressure:
main pressure:

What are you not liking about the fork?

I can tell you that when I first rode my mezzer I was disapointed. It felt really stiff and I was not getting traction. My hands were beat up after and my arms were really tired from holding on to the bike.

I started to reduce main and IRT pressure and it was feeling better. I removed the extra 17.5mm shim and that really made an improvement. Once I got down to about 36 PSI main, and 60 PSI IRT I was plowing through everything and the fork held up. I cased a double with the front wheel...plowed it into the backside of the lip...and it felt fine. I probably hit the hydraulic bottom out, but I didn't feel a hard bottom. My point is not to tell you to run your fork at 30 psi main....but to not be scared to experiment with low pressures and work your way up.


----------



## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

jmvar said:


> Mine looks exactly the same.
> 
> Provide the following info:
> travel:
> ...


I have the main chamber working now, it was really weird I had to put a whole load of air in it and it randomly just engaged. Not sure about the fork oil issue.

I then took all the air out of both chambers, pulled the fork to full travel in a bike stand, set the IRT to 85 and main chamber to around 55 , and will try that. I am 90kg.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Skatefarmer said:


> Thanks so much for the reply, I wish I could continue with the info but I cannot add air to the main chamber! There is something wrong!
> 
> The red bit is 100% protruding more than it should, I cannot attach my shock pump properly to it and it wont engage (like it wont show any reading on the pump no matter how tight as I cannot get it on due to the protruding red bit)
> 
> ...


If I push on mine, I can't get air to come out either. But I can air it up with my pump, or remove air. What type of pump are you using?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> As i was told by a mechanic this part where the compression shims sit on is no seperate piston but only a thick aluminium Plate instead with three holes and that's it


This is the Mezzer Pro piston. It's not a thick aluminium plate.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> This is the Mezzer Pro piston. It's not a thick aluminium plate.
> View attachment 1914543


Would not larger holes be better? I mean not like the diameter of the charger pistons but this seem to be really small ports. Does that not make the fork unnecessary harsh in relation to larger ports?


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

Lutsch said:


> You did not mentioned what is "deeper in the travel". But at first cycle you usually has to break once the seal of the IRT. Same behavior has the AWK and I know this kind of sound, but only at the first compression. Maybe greace can reduce it.


Thank you for your answer, very appreciated. The sound comes maybe at 50% of full travel. The first time it's a louder knock and from then it's still there but way more silent. The fork is lowered to 150mm.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

bansaiman said:


> Would not larger holes be better? I mean not like the diameter of the charger pistons but this seem to be really small ports. Does that not make the fork unnecessary harsh in relation to larger ports?


No. The hole size is determined by the application. If the piston were causing a choke point, then yes (i.e. older rockshox charger dampers had insufficient piston flow). The amount of flow through the piston is determined by a multitude of factors, including but not limited to, the size of the damper tube (this is different than the stanchion size), flow through the low speed needles, and midvalve flow (which can be a great deal of the flow in some forks). Mezzers do not suffer from high speed spiking, which tells us the piston holes are adequately sized. Looking at the hole sizes in a piston to determine if a fork is good works as well as looking at what spark plug a car uses to determine how fast it goes.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Skatefarmer said:


> Hi Guys, I have owned a Mezzer Pro for around 3 months now, and am on the verge of selling it (I have not got on with it at all)
> 
> I decided to have a read through this whole thread to see if I am missing something. There is much hype around this fork (especially in this thread) , even though all the group fork tests dont rate it at all, and I tend to be with them.
> 
> ...


First thing to try is a different shock pump. That rod connects the positive and negative air chambers when a pump is screwed on. Sometimes you'll find a pump that just won't work. Swap to a different pump and you're good.
Without the positive/negative chambers equalised the fork will feel awful.

You can't push that in by hand usually. It's got a firm spring behind it.


----------



## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

jmvar said:


> If I push on mine, I can't get air to come out either. But I can air it up with my pump, or remove air. What type of pump are you using?


Its working now..Very weird had to just keep adding loads of air until it had like 150 psi, and If I clicked the 'release' to let some air out it kept instantly going to 0..Did this a few times and eventually it stopped jumping to zero, it stays at the correct PSI and tapping the release just takes a little out like it should, it still seems to leak clearly oily fluid when I release air, not sure if that is normal.


----------



## Skatefarmer (Oct 1, 2018)

jmvar said:


> Mine looks exactly the same.
> 
> Provide the following info:
> travel:
> ...


Is the shim removal straight-forward and are there instructions anywhere?

but like you said its really stiff, lack of traction, it feels spikey, it beats up my hands and arms exactly like you. It feels rough over small bumps, not supple, like the fork is not active enough over small stuff yet also bad over repeated chunk - kind of like what the reviewers are experiencing. The only positive is that its really stiff and stable, so in steep turns etc you can hold your position. After going back to the bike overnight the forks also get like stuck in place. I need to give them a slight shove to release them from being stuck, I have read this is common though.

Maybe all the reviewers (and me) are wrong about this fork and it takes lots of tweaking to get it feeling good. I just got an Ebike with a Fox 38 performance with a basic Grip damper, I cannot tell you how much better that thing feels than the mezzer..I spent 2 minutes setting it up.

I would be interested to try to remove this 17.5mm 'shim' and see if that helps.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Out of curiosity, is your MY20 an actual production unit?
> 
> I didn't pull the seal out, so I could be off but it looks like a normal oring to me in the picture above?


That fork was a very early MY20. I'm not doubting your find.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

frischensbub said:


> I don't know if that is normal, but I do have a knocking sound deeper in the travel. It's kind of a louder "blop" every first cycle after the bike was standing a while and a more silent "blop" on every other cycle. The knobs have no affect on that "blop". I haven't ridden the fork much sice I bought it and tha was just 5 weeks ago. Does anyone experience the same?


So in my case this sound is just at the begining in its travel. And yes, after first cycle the louder bloop is happening.
In my case when LSC is fully closed it is quite.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Skatefarmer said:


> I have the main chamber working now, it was really weird I had to put a whole load of air in it and it randomly just engaged. Not sure about the fork oil issue.
> 
> I then took all the air out of both chambers, pulled the fork to full travel in a bike stand, set the IRT to 85 and main chamber to around 55 , and will try that. I am 90kg.


You should be at more like 46/77.

Also, if you can't easily push the fork to full bottom out while the pump is connected to the main air, your pump isn't correctly opening the negative chamber.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## SasquatchMTB (Dec 29, 2020)

I want to buy this fork but im nervous. Should i be nervous?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

SasquatchMTB said:


> I want to buy this fork but im nervous. Should i be nervous?


Yes, but because you are a Sasquatch and some states want to have a hunting season for you.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

No, don’t be nervous, it’s an amazing fork. CCS86’s shared doc with calculator is an amazing tool to help dial in the fork. Just using Manitou’s recommendations are great and make the fork work well out of the box, but his calculator helps dial in the fork to another level. When I get a new bike I will either swap this fork over or buy a new Mezzer Pro for it.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Any Mezzer expert owners here? If so, what's your experience with it?


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Skatefarmer said:


> Its working now..Very weird had to just keep adding loads of air until it had like 150 psi, and If I clicked the 'release' to let some air out it kept instantly going to 0..Did this a few times and eventually it stopped jumping to zero, it stays at the correct PSI and tapping the release just takes a little out like it should, it still seems to leak clearly oily fluid when I release air, not sure if that is normal.


The oil leak you mentioned probably is because the fork was assembled with more grease than what was necessary on the main chamber, eventually the leak will stop when all that extra and unnecessary grease gets purged out.


----------



## SasquatchMTB (Dec 29, 2020)

Is it on this forum somewhere? I've been going through it but might of misses it


----------



## dragoontwo (Dec 2, 2020)

SasquatchMTB said:


> Is it on this forum somewhere? I've been going through it but might of misses it


Here you go.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> Just had a mezzer damper apart and seen there is no real compression piston but only an aluminium plate with some holes in it.
> When is manitou going to build a real damping into that?
> I think with a well made compression piston it would be even better





bansaiman said:


> As i was told by a mechanic this part where the compression shims sit on is no seperate piston but only a thick aluminium Plate instead with three holes and that's it





bansaiman said:


> Would not larger holes be better? I mean not like the diameter of the charger pistons but this seem to be really small ports. Does that not make the fork unnecessary harsh in relation to larger ports?


What are you complaining about?

You can't tell the difference between a plate with 3 holes in it and an actual piston, assume that bigger piston ports = "better", somehow feel qualified to claim Manitou engineers have fallen short, and the damper isn't "well made"?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> What are you complaining about?
> 
> You can't tell the difference between a plate with 3 holes in it and an actual piston, assume that bigger piston ports = "better", somehow feel qualified to claim Manitou engineers have fallen short, and the damper isn't "well made"?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I know that manitou engeneering is good, but it seened thos 3 small round holes as compression ports seem simple and cheap when looking at other piston designs.

Another point I have and hope that will be solved. The friction of the cartridge is relatively high when mopving the rebound in referebce to newest RS and co. If that woukd be overworked the fork could gain much, considered how good it already works


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> I know that manitou engeneering is good, but it seened thos 3 small round holes as compression ports seem simple and cheap when looking at other piston designs.
> 
> Another point I have and hope that will be solved. The friction of the cartridge is relatively high when mopving the rebound in referebce to newest RS and co. If that woukd be overworked the fork could gain much, considered how good it already works


Have you still not noticed the kidney shaped ports that transition between axial and radial flow path?

There is always room to improve friction and otherwise. But, compared to my last RS fork, the overall friction on the Mezzer is infinitely better. The Pike was bound up constantly, even after burnishing the bushings.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

SasquatchMTB said:


> Is it on this forum somewhere? I've been going through it but might of misses it


Also on post #2722 on page 137. The main page has a list of settings other riders are using based on fork travel and rider weight. The second tab has the calculators, the top is for the published pressures from Manitou, the bottom calculator is CCS86's.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Have you still not noticed the kidney shaped ports that transition between axial and radial flow path?
> 
> There is always room to improve friction and otherwise. But, compared to my last RS fork, the overall friction on the Mezzer is infinitely better. The Pike was bound up constantly, even after burnishing the bushings.


Calm down, I am a convinced manitou rider, too. Anyway I just my twk cents. Yes I have seen the ports on the side immediately.

Like I said, the stiction overall is gokd. But the cartridge could move more freely.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> Calm down, I am a convinced manitou rider, too. Anyway I just my twk cents. Yes I have seen the ports on the side immediately.
> 
> Like I said, the stiction overall is gokd. But the cartridge could move more freely.


Who isn't calm?

If you saw the large kidney shaped ports "immediately", why would you claim the Mezzer "has a plate with 3 holes instead of a real piston" and continue saying how they should be bigger?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Hey guys, since this thread has become enormous and the large amount of good tech is really spread out and hard to access, I figured that I would do my best to consolidate the tech info. Feel free to PM me any specific info and I can add it to this post. Let's do our best to keep the discussion tech based.

*Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]*
*








Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]


The original Mezzer thread got enormous and despite the huge amount of good tech, it is really spread out and hard to access. I figured that I would do my best to consolidate the tech info. Feel free to PM me any specific info and I can add it to this post. Let's do our best to keep the...




www.mtbr.com




*


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Anyone know how much the mc2 damper and irt volume adjuster cost if you want to upgrade a mezzer expert. I would suspect that buying an expert then upgrading the damper and irt would me more costly than buying a pro in the first place. I think I found that the irt is $49 usd but couldn’t find the damper price.


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

Ripbro said:


> Anyone know how much the mc2 damper and irt volume adjuster cost if you want to upgrade a mezzer expert. I would suspect that buying an expert then upgrading the damper and irt would me more costly than buying a pro in the first place. I think I found that the irt is $49 usd but couldn't find the damper price.


I got my mezzer from deathprojects. No affiliation other than being a customer. Contact him instead of goimg the upgrade route. I cant imagine upgrading is a better deal.


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

The complete MC2 damper is $200.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ripbro said:


> Anyone know how much the mc2 damper and irt volume adjuster cost if you want to upgrade a mezzer expert. I would suspect that buying an expert then upgrading the damper and irt would me more costly than buying a pro in the first place. I think I found that the irt is $49 usd but couldn't find the damper price.


At the moment, as the expert is new and tge pro akready went down in price, tge price difference in germany is only 85 Euro. Ergo, take the pro directly.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I have a new Mezzer on the way and will do a travel change as soon as it arrives. I've read what the ideal oil choices are, but was wondering if either Maxima 5wt I have or some Castrol 0w40 full synthetic (for my VW and in my Pike) would work well for bath oil? Most of my riding will be 20F-40F for the next couple months so I was thinking the Maxima as it's helped my Ribbon perform better in the cold. I'd rather not buy yet another oil, but if I have to, so be it.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Can anyone help me why this happend?
Why or how is it possible that propably oil was leaking from the damper?
When I was bleeding the damper, bladder was slightly expanded?
Now, when I get the damper out I can see and hear something like this...


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Just try bleeding it again and be a little quicker about putting the screws in this time. It's normal for the bladder to be sucked down a little at full extension but that seems a little excessive IMO


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I made some changes to the CCS86 pressure calculator. I'm not sure if someone else had edited it, but I think it was recommending pressures that were slightly too low.

If you have used it recently, you might want to crunch the numbers again.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

So, anyone running 130 mm mezzer?
29" - Mattoc only goes to 120, Mezzer starting at 140 

How messed up will the spring feel?

thx
Oren


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

OrenPerets said:


> So, anyone running 130 mm mezzer?
> 29" - Mattoc only goes to 120, Mezzer starting at 140
> 
> How messed up will the spring feel?
> ...


Mattoc 29 goes up to 140mm.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> So, anyone running 130 mm mezzer?
> 29" - Mattoc only goes to 120, Mezzer starting at 140
> 
> How messed up will the spring feel?
> ...


29+ Magnum/Mattoc goes to 120mm. The 27+/29" goes to 140mm factory and I've safely got 150mm from them.

Mezzer at less than 140mm will have a lot of negative air so you'll probably need more air pressure to keep it up.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

ungod said:


> Just try bleeding it again and be a little quicker about putting the screws in this time. It's normal for the bladder to be sucked down a little at full extension but that seems a little excessive IMO


But after bleeding everything is ok. I do it as quick as possible, you even can not do it faster because it is impossible to put screws immediately. So it seems like the oil is getting out during working...


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Dougal said:


> 29+ Magnum/Mattoc goes to 120mm. The 27+/29" goes to 140mm factory and I've safely got 150mm from them.
> 
> Mezzer at less than 140mm will have a lot of negative air so you'll probably need more air pressure to keep it up.


Cool. for some reason it was stuck in my head that this is undoable...

so a normal 29" Mattoc is easily (?) converted? is it done by removing spacers from the airshaft or by swapping air shaft?
are all the mattoc3 compatible with this change? (can this one support 130? 150?)

thanks !

Oren


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Radecki said:


> But after bleeding everything is ok. I do it as quick as possible, you even can not do it faster because it is impossible to put screws immediately. So it seems like the oil is getting out during working...


Is that the damper after you've been riding it? Or immediately after bleeding?

I bled mine, then removed the top syringe and put a screw in. Then I pushed in more fluid with the bottom syringe until the bladder was bulging out a slight amount. Removed the lower syringe and put a screw in. By the time the screw was in, some of the fluid had been lost, but the net result was a filled bladder.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Has anyone done anything with wiper seals? It looks like the Manitou wipers are the only ones currently available. I was curious about SKF or ARI seals (or perhaps the Manitou seals are made by SKF). 

Seems like the stock wipers are great actually, but I'm evaluating my options.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

ungod said:


> Is that the damper after you've been riding it? Or immediately after bleeding?
> 
> I bled mine, then removed the top syringe and put a screw in. Then I pushed in more fluid with the bottom syringe until the bladder was bulging out a slight amount. Removed the lower syringe and put a screw in. By the time the screw was in, some of the fluid had been lost, but the net result was a filled bladder.


Yes, the damper is like this after about 2 weeks of riding.
Are you doing it with the damper flat or straight up?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Yes, the damper is like this after about 2 weeks of riding.


when you pulled out the damper the first time was it compressed from the factory like it is now? if it was then I'd say your damper may need to be warrantied.

Apart from that you didn't happen to touch the Allen head screw under the HSC dial for the excess fluid blowoff from the bladder & it's now too soft.
Other possibles may be a seal, a hole in the bladder , the bladder lock ring not seating properly, a leak from the threads of the tube & bladder nut.

I found in the past pulling everything apart ,cleaning & reassembling again sometimes works to resolve the issue.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

cashews said:


> when you pulled out the damper the first time was it compressed from the factory like it is now? if it was then I'd say your damper may need to be warrantied.
> 
> Apart from that you didn't happen to touch the Allen head screw under the HSC dial for the excess fluid blowoff from the bladder & it's now too soft.
> Other possibles may be a seal, a hole in the bladder , the bladder lock ring not seating properly, a leak from the threads of the tube & bladder nut.
> ...


You mean this screw?
Yes, last time I unscrewed it. So something bad could happen to it? But there was no oil in that area.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Radecki said:


> You mean this screw?
> Yes, last time I unscrewed it. So something bad could happen to it? But there was no oil in that area.


yes that one, perhaps email manitou about the correct procedure/setting/height for it as it may have lowered the pressure required to automatically bleed fluid from the damper in normal use( to stop the bladder bursting from excess fluid/ingestion), which may be the problem your having.

Edit: just a starting point to eliminate possible causes.


----------



## manelnunez (Aug 31, 2011)

Anyone is running one edc threaded tool in the mezzer? I am planning to buying a mezzer but I'm using the edc tool in my actual fox and I love it. Anyone knows if it fits the steerer tube? 

Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

manelnunez said:


> Anyone is running one edc threaded tool in the mezzer? I am planning to buying a mezzer but I'm using the edc tool in my actual fox and I love it. Anyone knows if it fits the steerer tube?
> 
> Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


Does fit. Friend is running one in his Mezzer. There is nothing special with it's steerer that would prevent it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Was there every any conclusion on if the 8/6/20 dated forks are on the new rebound tune? That's still the date on remaining forks being sold by Manitou right now.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Was there every any conclusion on if the 8/6/20 dated forks are on the new rebound tune? That's still the date on remaining forks being sold by Manitou right now.


mine is a 5/2020 build & has the MY21 rebound stack, so it's likely they are.


----------



## SasquatchMTB (Dec 29, 2020)

What are peoples thoughts on the Expert? There are no reviews at all i can find. The irt is a cheap add on


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

Does anybody know how to separate the compression piston from the bladder?


----------



## John232629 (Oct 11, 2005)

I see people talking about running this at 120 but has anyone ever actually done it? i'm very tempted! (need a 29 fork for hard tail and the mattoc is the same weight + in stock). I understand that the neg air spring would be huge, but isnt that what vorsprung is going with some of their secus and luftkappe? Intend with the bandit? .... anyone have a spare couple travel spacers they'd be willing to share?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Symion said:


> Does anybody know how to separate the compression piston from the bladder?


Remove the damper bolt (HBO cup), Thread the damper tube back onto the lower bladder retainer and wiggle.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Hi everyone! I currently have a dvo onyx and it performs flawlessly. I want to mullet my bike and put a 29 mezzer up front at 160, 51 mm offset. Can anyone recommend an Europeen online store that sells the latest version of the fork? I ve found on bike 24 they claim that it is. The my 21 and on r2 bike it seems peetty legit too. Thank you very much!


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Uchwmdr said:


> Hi everyone! I currently have a dvo onyx and it performs flawlessly. I want to mullet my bike and put a 29 mezzer up front at 160, 51 mm offset. Can anyone recommend an Europeen online store that sells the latest version of the fork? I ve found on bike 24 they claim that it is. The my 21 and on r2 bike it seems peetty legit too. Thank you very much!


I got mine from Starbike: Manitou Mezzer Pro suspension fork buying - www.starbike.com
I got the 29er 44mm MY20, but don't recall if it's September or October from 2020.
The lowers have the bleed ports and the bushings are just perfect, they slide freely and there is no play.
They have the 29er 51mm in stock for now, and they offer free shipping.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Uchwmdr said:


> Hi everyone! I currently have a dvo onyx and it performs flawlessly. I want to mullet my bike and put a 29 mezzer up front at 160, 51 mm offset. Can anyone recommend an Europeen online store that sells the latest version of the fork? I ve found on bike 24 they claim that it is. The my 21 and on r2 bike it seems peetty legit too. Thank you very much!


Bought my set of Mezzers from bike-discount.de in late December. They have the bleed ports.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

I have in mind that someone here did a bushing burnishing. What diameter was used for the burnishing and was it compared/aligned with the real diameter of the stanchion?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I burnished mine. I purchased my burnisher from Oliver and he recommended a 37.08mm burnisher which is what I went with. My calipers show 36.99mm stanchions. Might just be .01mm off. 

Search YouTube for some results videos. I'd be happy to burnish for others for cheap if you don't want to buy the tool, but I'm sure shipping will add to the cost.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ungod said:


> I burnished mine. I purchased my burnisher from Oliver and he recommended a 37.08mm burnisher which is what I went with. My calipers show 36.99mm stanchions. Might just be .01mm off.
> 
> Search YouTube for some results videos. I'd be happy to burnish for others for cheap if you don't want to buy the tool, but I'm sure shipping will add to the cost.


Where are you located?

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Where are you located?
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


I'm in New Mexico, USA.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ungod said:


> I'm in New Mexico, USA.


Whereabouts?

I'm through the NE portion a couple of times per year. In fact I like it so much, I'm currently shopping for a place in North Santa Fe.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> Whereabouts?
> 
> I'm through the NE portion a couple of times per year. In fact I like it so much, I'm currently shopping for a place in North Santa Fe.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


I must like any and all pro-Santa Fe posts I stumble across.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Guys i have one tiny concern about the mezzer. Since it has 3 air chambers, that equals more seals hence more friction. If you have found a perfect setup, how close it was to a coil fork in terms of breakaway sticktion?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Uchwmdr said:


> Guys i have one tiny concern about the mezzer. Since it has 3 air chambers, that equals more seals hence more friction. If you have found a perfect setup, how close it was to a coil fork in terms of breakaway sticktion?


No air fork is as good as a coil in relation to breakaway stiction. Mezzer feels much better on the trail than it does in the car park test.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Uchwmdr said:


> Guys i have one tiny concern about the mezzer. Since it has 3 air chambers, that equals more seals hence more friction. If you have found a perfect setup, how close it was to a coil fork in terms of breakaway sticktion?


There is no difference in breakaway friction compared to a 2 chamber fork, the 3rd chamber doesn't come into play until well into the stroke and it is imperceptible when it starts moving.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Uchwmdr said:


> Guys i have one tiny concern about the mezzer. Since it has 3 air chambers, that equals more seals hence more friction. If you have found a perfect setup, how close it was to a coil fork in terms of breakaway sticktion?


Mezzer is a fantastic fork but you won't confuse it for a coil fork.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> Mezzer is a fantastic fork but you won't confuse it for a coil fork.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


But not all coil forks. I had an MRP Ribbon coil that was much worse than the Mezzer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Uchwmdr said:


> Guys i have one tiny concern about the mezzer. Since it has 3 air chambers, that equals more seals hence more friction. If you have found a perfect setup, how close it was to a coil fork in terms of breakaway sticktion?


Here's a graph of force on a freshly assembled Mezzer. This is reading basically no breakaway stiction. But the seals do grab a little if it's been sitting for a day.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I recently noticed my Mezzer Pro loosing its small bump sensitivity and feeling stiff. I checked the air and the IRT was significantly higher and the main was low.
I started at 98 / 68 and on check was at 120 / 62. I re-adjusted and hoping that great feel comes back. I am probably about ~20 hours into a lower oil change.

Any idea's what is happening here?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

TraxFactory said:


> I recently noticed my Mezzer Pro loosing its small bump sensitivity and feeling stiff. I checked the air and the IRT was significantly higher and the main was low.
> I started at 98 / 68 and on check was at 120 / 62. I re-adjusted and hoping that great feel comes back. I am probably about ~20 hours into a lower oil change.
> 
> Any idea's what is happening here?


Either the IRT piston was getting bound up and not returning to full stroke. Or, the main chamber burped air into the IRT chamber during some number of bottom out compressions.

If there was normal damage to the IRT seal, I'd expect the pressure to equalize at rest. So, your case suggests that it only leaks at speed, or in a certain position in the stanchion. I'd look for damage inside the top of the stanchion, inspect the seal, and make sure everything is well greased.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

TraxFactory said:


> I recently noticed my Mezzer Pro loosing its small bump sensitivity and feeling stiff. I checked the air and the IRT was significantly higher and the main was low.
> I started at 98 / 68 and on check was at 120 / 62. I re-adjusted and hoping that great feel comes back. I am probably about ~20 hours into a lower oil change.
> 
> Any idea's what is happening here?


My fork does the same, must be transferring air on bigger hits. Every so often I just reset the pressures.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Anyone tried the Mezzer expert yet? I would appriciate to read opinions about it.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

springs said:


> My fork does the same, must be transferring air on bigger hits. Every so often I just reset the pressures.


Good to know I'm not the only one. 
Pretty low hours for this to be happening. I'll contact Hayes see what they want to do.


----------



## SasquatchMTB (Dec 29, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> Anyone tried the Mezzer expert yet? I would appriciate to read opinions about it.


I want to know as well!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> I recently noticed my Mezzer Pro loosing its small bump sensitivity and feeling stiff. I checked the air and the IRT was significantly higher and the main was low.
> I started at 98 / 68 and on check was at 120 / 62. I re-adjusted and hoping that great feel comes back. I am probably about ~20 hours into a lower oil change.
> 
> Any idea's what is happening here?


My suspicion would be a seal without enough lube chattering instead of sliding freely. Burping a bit of air at the top of stroke as it does so.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
Could you have look at it?
I just took rebound stack apart and see that I have much more shims than you were writing here.
Totally there are 11 shims.

1. Is it possible that they put more shims in my fork?
It is from August 2020, bought together with the bike Vitus.

2. Is it possible that I feel fork too much painful for my hand because of too many shims?

3. So in this case which shims should I remove?

4. Is there any necessary to flatten those 2 curved shims?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That's the normal MY20 stack.

Remove one of the 13x0.1 shims like has been shown.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Just bought a Mezzer Expert, pretty pumped. I have the burnishing tool from Oliver for 35 mm RS forks, any point in getting a 37 mm head for it? Anyone been burnishing these forks? Thanks for the help.

Greg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

So I did remove extra shim 13x6x0.1 from rebound and that what is happening.
Strange sound when fully open rebound:






and here even worse when fully closed:





Did you have the same? Do you know why is it so?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

My best guess is that when reassembling the stack, one or more components was shifted to the side and didn't fully seat on the tight fitting ID. So, it prematurely felt tight and didn't axially clamp everything together.

Something went wrong for sure, so it needs to come apart.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> My best guess is that when reassembling the stack, one or more components was shifted to the side and didn't fully seat on the tight fitting ID. So, it prematurely felt tight and didn't axially clamp everything together.
> 
> Something went wrong for sure, so it needs to come apart.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


So yes, it turned out that I unnecessarily flatten those 2 curved shims. I recover into their natural shape and it works as before


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

johnsogr said:


> Just bought a Mezzer Expert, pretty pumped. I have the burnishing tool from Oliver for 35 mm RS forks, any point in getting a 37 mm head for it? Anyone been burnishing these forks? Thanks for the help.
> 
> Greg
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It depends on the fork. I did mine and it made a noticeable difference. Ccs86 said neither of his really needed it.

My bushings were sized well but two of them had a deformity that caused major stiction. Go on YouTube for some videos.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> So yes, it turned out that I unnecessarily flatten those 2 curved shims. I recover into their natural shape and it works as before




Why would you do that?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

Radecki said:


> So yes, it turned out that I unnecessarily flatten those 2 curved shims. I recover into their natural shape and it works as before


btw. these "curved shims" are called "springs" and press the checkvalve shim agains the piston


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

I wanted to ask if you had a chance to test some of those hsc springs you've put in a graph a while ago. If I remember correctly and if those should be better than the stock in mezzer?

@mike153 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Why would you do that?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I just thought somebody wrote about this to flatten those curved shims, only because of that.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

But there is one more thing.
After removing extra 17.5 mm shim from hsc there is some strange noise. It is only when hsc is open. When hsc is fully closed then it is completely quiet.
Any idea why is it that?


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Just got my fork in and did a travel change, still not ridden. Afterward, noticed some notchiness when compressed quickly. Pulled the lowers, cycled the air spring and noticed the same feeling. After pulling the air spring it seems to come from the lower part of the assembly. The large black plastic piece that presses against the metal piece which threads in the legs. When I slide that up and down the air shaft, it's pretty noticeable. Lubed with slicoleum and reassembled. First couple cycles felt fine but then the notchiness came back. It does move very easily, basically no stiction, just the notchiness.

Any ideas? Semi-bath oil instead of grease? I thought I'd figured it out and resolved, but apparently not.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I would put some miles on it and see if it dissipates.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> I would put some miles on it and see if it dissipates.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Thanks, I got the same answer from Manitou when I got them on the phone. Guy I spoke to there was very helpful and said it sounded to him like a seal someplace was tight and expected it would improve with some use. Semi-bath seemed a tad low so I topped it off and double checked grease levels on pistons.

First ride today and can't say I really noticed the notchiness. So far quite happy. Plenty sensitive cruising around, and very smooth on a few small drops/jumps I did. Maybe some pressure changes to improve through roots/rocks at speed. 54/85 150mm, open HSC, 3 clicks LSC, 3 from open on rebound.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

kiotae said:


> Thanks, I got the same answer from Manitou when I got them on the phone. Guy I spoke to there was very helpful and said it sounded to him like a seal someplace was tight and expected it would improve with some use. Semi-bath seemed a tad low so I topped it off and double checked grease levels on pistons.
> 
> First ride today and can't say I really noticed the notchiness. So far quite happy. Plenty sensitive cruising around, and very smooth on a few small drops/jumps I did. Maybe some pressure changes to improve through roots/rocks at speed. 54/85 150mm, open HSC, 3 clicks LSC, 3 from open on rebound.


In addition to your setup what actually is your weight?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kiotae said:


> Just got my fork in and did a travel change, still not ridden. Afterward, noticed some notchiness when compressed quickly. Pulled the lowers, cycled the air spring and noticed the same feeling. After pulling the air spring it seems to come from the lower part of the assembly. The large black plastic piece that presses against the metal piece which threads in the legs. When I slide that up and down the air shaft, it's pretty noticeable. Lubed with slicoleum and reassembled. First couple cycles felt fine but then the notchiness came back. It does move very easily, basically no stiction, just the notchiness.
> 
> Any ideas? Semi-bath oil instead of grease? I thought I'd figured it out and resolved, but apparently not.


That slight notchiness presents in the majority of new or serviced forks from all makes and models. But after being ridden it's gone. It's likely a particular seal chattering.

The only thing all these forks from different makes and models really have in common are wiper seals.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

bansaiman said:


> In addition to your setup what actually is your weight?


Oops, not sure how I missed that. 160-165lbs in gear.



Dougal said:


> That slight notchiness presents in the majority of new or serviced forks from all makes and models. But after being ridden it's gone. It's likely a particular seal chattering.
> 
> The only thing all these forks from different makes and models really have in common are wiper seals.


Great, glad to see there's consensus on what's likely happening.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

kiotae said:


> Oops, not sure how I missed that. 160-165lbs in gear.


At 165lbs and 150mm travel, 52/79 should be close. You aren't far from that, but if you want to improve sensitivity and use a little more travel, try moving in that direction.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> At 165lbs and 150mm travel, 52/79 should be close. You aren't far from that, but if you want to improve sensitivity and use a little more travel, try moving in that direction.


It feels really close to right on the first try, but I wanted to mess with it a little since my perception of good might be a little low given my previous fork. I'd reset to 50/80, so very close to your suggestion. I don't do any big jumps/drops so my focus is on making the mid-range as effective as possible in the medium-fast choppy stuff.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm finally getting some time on my Mezzer and I think it's starting to break in. Since Dougal weighs the same as me, I went with his 35/55 pressures and that seems to be working quite well. It takes some decent-size drops very smoothly.

Now that it's working better, I'm becoming quite impressed with it. I found out that I can launch jumps a whole lot better with it (IRT?). Once the higher trails melt out, then I can see how it does on steep chunk.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I think it was CCS86 that posted a video clip of the Mezzer in action. That was quite impressive and convinced me to buy one. I'm really getting to like it.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Curveball said:


> I'm finally getting some time on my Mezzer and I think it's starting to break in. Since Dougal weighs the same as me, I went with his 35/55 pressures and that seems to be working quite well. It takes some decent-size drops very smoothly.
> 
> Now that it's working better, I'm becoming quite impressed with it. I found out that I can launch jumps a whole lot better with it (IRT?). Once the higher trails melt out, then I can see how it does on steep chunk.


Jumping in here after lurking for... what seems like ages.

I've read much of the thread, but at this point its getting hard to keep track of who said what/when, and what they were comparing it too.

What are the other forks you've ridden that are similar (specifically, I'm curious if you've ridden a Lyrik with Charger 2.0/2.1, as thats my next most likely fork to end up with)? Also, you said its starting to break in, but how many hours do you have on it so far? I'm specifically asking here as I know we're in the same general area/ride some of the same regional trails, so your feedback may be more directly applicable to me.

Essentially I'm slowly working my way to an eventual frame up build of <somethingTBD>, by buying parts that work on my current bike, that I can later swap over to the new frame. I'm coming from a moco Yari, so I'm sure anything will be an improvement. Its just that the Mezzer is something of an unknown (this thread seems to like it, but its not reviewed professionally super well), while the Lyrik is something of a known (easy parts/service, more or less know what I'm getting into). So still trying to decide.


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

ocnLogan said:


> Jumping in here after lurking for... what seems like ages.
> 
> I've read much of the thread, but at this point its getting hard to keep track of who said what/when, and what they were comparing it too.
> 
> ...


When I was in the game for a new fork I came from a Yari with Moco as well. I thought about the partly raving reviews of the Yari back in 2016 and 2017 where most reviewers said that there's not much difference between this and the high end forks. But the Yari clearly is a bad fork when it get's rough. The same happend to me with a Rock Shox Psylo back in 2005. It was super hyped but I found it to be a **** fork for me. The first and second generation Reverb posts also made more problems then any review quoted. I don't know what they are doing there if there are "paychecks" involved or if the reviewers get selected products but user experience is often quite different to the magazines. I must say that I have no experience with a Charger 2 or 2.1 Lyrik but I believe that the the mezzer definitely is as capable. So far I like it.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The Mezzer can't even be compared to a Pike 2.0. Absolutely crushes it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Jumping in here after lurking for... what seems like ages.
> 
> I've read much of the thread, but at this point its getting hard to keep track of who said what/when, and what they were comparing it too.
> 
> ...


I'm coming off an MRP Ribbon coil. I've never ridden a Lyrik because I've had a very long history of crappy Rockshox forks, most of which were replaced by Marzocchi's. I'm very much done with Rockshox.

I probably have about 10 hours on it so far and am pretty impressed at this point. It does feel better than the Ribbon so far. With all the snow we had, I still haven't taken it on the chunder at Tiger or Raging yet which will be a much better test. I expect to be riding those trails soon though.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

frischensbub said:


> When I was in the game for a new fork I came from a Yari with Moco as well. I thought about the partly raving reviews of the Yari back in 2016 and 2017 where most reviewers said that there's not much difference between this and the high end forks. But the Yari clearly is a bad fork when it get's rough. The same happend to me with a Rock Shox Psylo back in 2005. It was super hyped but I found it to be a **** fork for me. The first and second generation Reverb posts also made more problems then any review quoted. I don't know what they are doing there if there are "paychecks" involved or if the reviewers get selected products but user experience is often quite different to the magazines. I must say that I have no experience with a Charger 2 or 2.1 Lyrik but I believe that the the mezzer definitely is as capable. So far I like it.


LOL! I bought a bike some years back that came with a Pike which I expected to be great based on all the glowing reviews. After struggling to get it to work at all, I replaced it with a Marzocchi which was worlds better. Those magazine reviews are completely worthless if you ask me. I think the best resource for assessing things is this forum. I wish I had read the "I hate my Pike" thread sooner. The Ribbon won Pinkbike's "Suspension Product of the Year" award several years ago, yet if you read the threads on it here you'll find that a lot of people (myself included) that have serious damping issues with it.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> The Mezzer can't even be compared to a Pike 2.0. Absolutely crushes it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I think they're talking about the Lyrik and not the Pike.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Curveball said:


> I think they're talking about the Lyrik and not the Pike.


Same poop, different pile. I've owned a Pike and ridden several Lyriks, they're both outclassed by my Mattoc or Marzocchi 350 NCR.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

aerius said:


> Same poop, different pile. I've owned a Pike and ridden several Lyriks, they're both outclassed by my Mattoc or Marzocchi 350 NCR.


Too funny, I replaced the Pike on my old Troy with a 350 NCR and that's a great fork. My son has it now and he really loves it too. I have a Mattoc on my hardtail and it's far better than the Pike. I'm not surprised that the Lyrik doesn't stand up to those forks.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Can anybody compare a Mezzer to a 36/lyric converted to coil?

I have a 36 with a push ACS3 which I'm fairly happy with. What I like most is the consistency and support through steeper terrain and braking.

I'm about 235#'s and have never gotten an air fork to work consistently on single BIG hits. I feel like maybe I get blowby with that high of a psi or something, but that's just a laymen thought. Building a new bike and am very Mezzer curious. Will it outclass a smooth working coil fork?

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Jumping in here after lurking for... what seems like ages.
> 
> I've read much of the thread, but at this point its getting hard to keep track of who said what/when, and what they were comparing it too.
> 
> ...


I've ridden most of them. The only one that comes close to the Mezzer Pro out of the box is the 2021 Fox 36 which is a pretty sweet fork. But I have to be honest that even that fork doesn't do the small bump compliance that the Mezzer does when you have it properly set up and seems to require a bit less air and spacers to balance the end stroke progression and small bump compliance leaving the fork running lower in its height and compromising that nice mid stroke for pushing in and out of turns etc. You can get the rebound moving faster on the Fox and I will say that I like the rebound tune of the Fox 36 2021 better then the Mezzer but after a few months still not enough to keep it. I put a 2021 36 on my new EVO but am going back to the Mezzer. I found that a Push ACS3 / Grip2 Fox 36 works really well but is super heavy, and frankly the Dorado air spring is pretty plush and I never really feel the stiction. Also, I like that I can very specifically tune an air spring depending on the day and whether I'm riding with a pack without changing the coil. The only way I could get a Lyrik with the 2.1 charger (Ultimate) to feel even slightly reasonable was to install a DSD runt and even then I can't tell if the damper is doing much of anything. No matter how much I rode it I could not get it to feel good. Frankly hated the Lyrik without the DSD. Done with Rockshox at this point. Bailed on it before putting any more money into it with a HC97 damper.

I will say that some of the smaller sites (NSMB, Blister, MBR) and most of the discussion on these boards have reflected my experience with the Mezzer. I haven't found a lot of alignment with the Pinkbike review or the recent bike radar review. It does make me wonder if they really took the time to dial in the fork. Its a little tricky as you can get it feeling really badly by getting the IRT/Main ratio off. Also, the HSC/LSC don't really seem to do much in the parking lot and then you get on the trail and you see the difference which is sizable. Not sure why that is... but it is true. Also, I've only owned a fork with the updated lowers and never had bushing slop or anything like that.

My final two points would be that Hayes is awesome to deal with. I have the dominion A4 brakes which in my opinion are the standard by which all other brakes should be judged and even tried a set of Reynolds wheels and took advantage of the 30 day return policy and they were great (turns out loud hubs aren't my thing...). Going with some Onyx hubs... another story. So, I have no worries about using Hayes products. Second point is that Manitou is much easier to service and I think it is reflected in how many folks here have serviced their own forks here or even messed around with the shim stacks. The fact that you can change the travel in 20 minutes with out having another air spring is awesome for a serial bike frame exchanger like myself as well.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

frischensbub said:


> When I was in the game for a new fork I came from a Yari with Moco as well. I thought about the partly raving reviews of the Yari back in 2016 and 2017 where most reviewers said that there's not much difference between this and the high end forks. But the Yari clearly is a bad fork when it get's rough. The same happend to me with a Rock Shox Psylo back in 2005. It was super hyped but I found it to be a **** fork for me. The first and second generation Reverb posts also made more problems then any review quoted. I don't know what they are doing there if there are "paychecks" involved or if the reviewers get selected products but user experience is often quite different to the magazines. I must say that I have no experience with a Charger 2 or 2.1 Lyrik but I believe that the the mezzer definitely is as capable. So far I like it.


Yeah, it does get a bit spikey when things get "rapid chunky". My Yari came with my bike though, so I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.



Curveball said:


> I'm coming off an MRP Ribbon coil. I've never ridden a Lyrik because I've had a very long history of crappy Rockshox forks, most of which were replaced by Marzocchi's. I'm very much done with Rockshox.
> 
> I probably have about 10 hours on it so far and am pretty impressed at this point. It does feel better than the Ribbon so far. With all the snow we had, I still haven't taken it on the chunder at Tiger or Raging yet which will be a much better test. I expect to be riding those trails soon though.


Understood. I'll be curious how you feel after Raging in particular (I've just ridden there much more often than Tiger).

Oh, and do you use a fender with it? Have you had to cut new slots on the fenders to use them? I use a MuckyNutz MugGuard Long fender, and slightly worried it would get all floppy out front. And of course, worried that the stock fender it comes with isn't near long enough.



Curveball said:


> LOL! I bought a bike some years back that came with a Pike which I expected to be great based on all the glowing reviews. After struggling to get it to work at all, I replaced it with a Marzocchi which was worlds better. Those magazine reviews are completely worthless if you ask me.* I think the best resource for assessing things is this forum.* I wish I had read the "I hate my Pike" thread sooner. The Ribbon won Pinkbike's "Suspension Product of the Year" award several years ago, yet if you read the threads on it here you'll find that a lot of people (myself included) that have serious damping issues with it.


Yeah, thats a bit of a quandary for me personally. I get the sentiment. I mean, I wouldn't even be considering the Mezzer without this thread. Its just that usually I look for some sort of alignment on reviews/sentiment on products before I buy something. Which of course makes it harder when the "industry" reviews/user input don't seem to match. And its not that the Mezzer has bad "industry" reviews... they just seem to generally be more lukewarm.

Thanks for the input .


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I am using the stock fender and it works great.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ocnLogan said:


> Jumping in here after lurking for... what seems like ages.
> 
> I've read much of the thread, but at this point its getting hard to keep track of who said what/when, and what they were comparing it too.
> 
> ...


I've done a lot of work on the Lyriks to make them work. Charger 2.0 RC2 was weak on compression damping but also harsh. LSC needle doesn't work as it's too small for the hole it fills. At my 75kg I can wind both compression dials closed and slam the fork through it's travel at my normal air pressure.
Charger 2.1 RC2 they fixed the LSC needle size, so that now works. But they softened the shim stack up even more. It's got so little compression damping it's almost useless. But it's still got that mid-valve harshness. Anyone riding a Lyrik aggressively is having to run extra air pressure to keep the fork up.

To fix the Charger damper requires mid-valve modifications and a full retune. That helps massively but you're still short on hydraulic bottom-out and the two stage air-spring. You can put a Smashpot coil (with HBO) into a Lyrik as well as a tune and that's a great end result. But it's a lot of money and it's heavier too.

I have quite a few customers selling other forks and buying Mezzer's. It's more cost effective than upgrading them and they get a better result.


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

ocnLogan said:


> Yeah, it does get a bit spikey when things get "rapid chunky". My Yari came with my bike though, so I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
> 
> Understood. I'll be curious how you feel after Raging in particular (I've just ridden there much more often than Tiger).
> 
> ...


Reading this entire thread would make one think the Lyrik is unrideable.

The Lyrik, like the Mezzer is an awesome fork. I've owned 3 Lyriks, the latest being a 2020 Ultimate and I also have had a Mezzer for 2 seasons. The two just have different strengths and weaknesses.

For me it boils down to these qualities,

Lyrik:
Significantly more plush. 
Super easy to set up, but not super tuneable. Almost hard to find a bad setup. But if you don't like it, it is what it is.
Get this fork if long runs and fatigue are an issue and you ride a lot of low speed wet, Gnar.
I prefer the Lyrik on my slack enduro rig to a degree.
Great 'set and forget' fork.

Mezzer:
Stiffer Chasis
WAY more supportive than the Lyrik.
WAY more tuneable. But it's tricky to find a reallllly good setup, easy to set it up wrong. 
Works better in repeated big hits as the damper almost never spikes. The HBO circuit is sublime. So much better than volume spacers and I don't understand why more forks don't use this system. 
I like the mezzer a bit better than the Lyrik on my 130 trail bike where the Head angle is steeper and I'm forced over the front of the bike more. 
Due to the set up possibility's the Mezzer offers, I'm constantly faffing with it, which is fun to a degree.

Don't buy that 'professional reviewers are BS' line. I know a handful of these folks and to a person they make an honest effort. If you don't like their opinion then that's fine. In my experience there is no industry conspiracy to review RS and Fox positive every time. They both make rad products in reality.

Good luck.

PS, completely agree with Dougal that If you ride aggressively then your Lyrik setup will involve more Psi. I think I run around +8-10 more than the guide suggested.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Jumping in as well,
Anyone uses Mezzer as a trail oriented fork?
I mean, 140mm?
If so, please share inputs about it..

Thanks!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> Jumping in as well,
> Anyone uses Mezzer as a trail oriented fork?
> I mean, 140mm?
> If so, please share inputs about it..
> ...


Works great at 140mm

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John232629 (Oct 11, 2005)

ForMartha said:


> Jumping in as well,
> Anyone uses Mezzer as a trail oriented fork?
> I mean, 140mm?
> If so, please share inputs about it..
> ...


Give me a month or two and I'll let you know how it works at 120.


----------



## funkymonks (Aug 23, 2017)

Anyone have any knowledge as to when these will be available in the US again? I really don't want to have to buy a Fox 36.


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

Finally dropped my Mezzer down to 170 and got it bolted up. When I’m tightening the nut on the lower air-side casting, it gets pretty snug then the whole valve starts spinning along with the nut. I know those nuts don’t need much torque, but shouldn’t it snug up completely with the air valve locked in place? Just double checking to make sure nothing’s loose inside


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

jakalwil said:


> Finally dropped my Mezzer down to 170 and got it bolted up. When I'm tightening the nut on the lower air-side casting, it gets pretty snug then the whole valve starts spinning along with the nut. I know those nuts don't need much torque, but shouldn't it snug up completely with the air valve locked in place? Just double checking to make sure nothing's loose inside


Probably due to everything freshly lubed and no pressure in the main chamber the air piston is free to rotate, try put some PSI on the main chamber, it should be enough to prevent the air piston from rotating.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Anybody have a clue what bath oil this is? Its red in color and the viscosity looks like supergliss maybee even thicker.
The fork arrived freshly serviced from hayes.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

It seems that the Mezzer is very sensitive for lower temperature. I heard that about the Mattoc, but today was not a really good one on the Mezzer. The temperature was about ~5°C, at home the rebound was fine, during the tour I had to increase the speed a lot (3 clicks if i have it right, fully open or one click was still possible). Do not know how it is with compression but I open the HSC one click and LSC too. Still not a lot of runs on the fork but I hope with increasing temperature the performance will increase too.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

jakalwil said:


> Finally dropped my Mezzer down to 170 and got it bolted up. When I'm tightening the nut on the lower air-side casting, it gets pretty snug then the whole valve starts spinning along with the nut. I know those nuts don't need much torque, but shouldn't it snug up completely with the air valve locked in place? Just double checking to make sure nothing's loose inside


It's a 2 tool process. One tightens the nut, the other holds the shaft.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

Lutsch said:


> It seems that the Mezzer is very sensitive for lower temperature. I heard that about the Mattoc, but today was not a really good one on the Mezzer. The temperature was about ~5°C, at home the rebound was fine, during the tour I had to increase the speed a lot (3 clicks if i have it right, fully open or one click was still possible). Do not know how it is with compression but I open the HSC one click and LSC too. Still not a lot of runs on the fork but I hope with increasing temperature the performance will increase too.


Yes I know what you mean. I have the same feeling in very cold conditions but I had that with my Yari as well. I'm not quite sure if it's more pronounced with the mezzer. I think it will be noticeable on any air fork you buy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

frischensbub said:


> When I was in the game for a new fork I came from a Yari with Moco as well. I thought about the partly raving reviews of the Yari back in 2016 and 2017 where most reviewers said that there's not much difference between this and the high end forks. But the Yari clearly is a bad fork when it get's rough. The same happend to me with a Rock Shox Psylo back in 2005. It was super hyped but I found it to be a **** fork for me. The first and second generation Reverb posts also made more problems then any review quoted. I don't know what they are doing there if there are "paychecks" involved or if the reviewers get selected products but user experience is often quite different to the magazines. I must say that I have no experience with a Charger 2 or 2.1 Lyrik but I believe that the the mezzer definitely is as capable. So far I like it.


What muppet said the Moco Yari was not much different to a high end fork? The Moco is absolutely horrible. IMO RS Turnkey damper even rides better.

Mind you. Lots of people who should have known better raved about Charger 1 forks with lockout tunes. Hell even some suspension companies claimed they were perfect and didn't need any tuning. Despite the fact they had super stiff shim stacks and relied on orifice damping to bypass that. The result was wallow and spike reminiscent of pumping rod marzocchi and RS forks. IMO you'd have to be a novice rider on groomed tracks to conclude any of those were acceptable.


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

So bikeradar gave it 4.5 out of 5 Points, mbr said it's just as sophisticated as the Lyrik but 9 out of 10 points, mtb-news said it's just a tad less sensitive as the Lyrik...and so on. Most magazines where at least mentioning a little harshness but for me as a customer it sounded like nothing to worry about. In the end I tried for 3 years to get along with this fork and thankfully am now somewhere else.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

frischensbub said:


> So bikeradar gave it 4.5 out of 5 Points, mbr said it's just as sophisticated as the Lyrik but 9 out of 10 points, mtb-news said it's just a tad less sensitive as the Lyrik...and so on. Most magazines where at least mentioning a little harshness but for me as a customer it sounded like nothing to worry about. In the end I tried for 3 years to get along with this fork and thankfully am now somewhere else.


It's not a question of whether it's a good fork. It IS a very good fork.

The question is : is the fork right for you in stock trim? And if not : are you willing to change out the shims to make it right?

It sounds like the answer for you is no, and no. And you moved on to something that was right for you in the stock trim. That doesn't make it a bad fork, just not what you wanted.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Headoc said:


> I will say that some of the smaller sites (NSMB, Blister, MBR) and most of the discussion on these boards have reflected my experience with the Mezzer. I haven't found a lot of alignment with the Pinkbike review or the recent bike radar review. It does make me wonder if they really took the time to dial in the fork.


I think that Kaz at PB got an early build Mezzer with the bushing slop issue that evidently affected his review. He mentioned on one of the podcasts late last year that he had some time on another one and was liking it much better this time around.



ForMartha said:


> Jumping in as well,
> Anyone uses Mezzer as a trail oriented fork?
> I mean, 140mm?
> If so, please share inputs about it..


I've been using one on the front of a Ripley for about the past three months set at 140 and it's an absolute revelation on the front like the Mara was on the back. So composed through chunk and chop, and it stays high in its travel so you don't get that wallow right after a rough section into a tight turn. I didn't find my buddy's Pike+Smashpot to be any plusher but I also didn't ride that fork for very long or try to set it up for myself. The best part of the Manitou stuff has been how easy it is to dial into something reasonable and then just leave it there. Makes it easier to focus on riding, and specifically improving skills. Seems like I was always fiddling with the stock Fox suspension and never could get it feeling right.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GiddyHitch said:


> I think that Kaz at PB got an early build Mezzer with the bushing slop issue that evidently affected his review. He mentioned on one of the podcasts late last year that he had some time on another one and was liking it much better this time around.


The big issue was running too much air pressure. Simple setup IMO.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Been running a Mezzer Pro LE for a few months and I find it to be a phenomenal fork. 
Run the clicker settings in the middle of the Enduro recommendations (or 1 click stiffer) and went from that guy turning clickers often to never even touching it once cause it does everything right. 
Started with Dougal's psi settings but ended up a decent bit higher on the IRT to prevent bottom outs.
It's a direct feeling fork that takes whatever I can dish out.
Also looks great!

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

ungod said:


> It's not a question of whether it's a good fork. It IS a very good fork.
> 
> The question is : is the fork right for you in stock trim? And if not : are you willing to change out the shims to make it right?
> 
> It sounds like the answer for you is no, and no. And you moved on to something that was right for you in the stock trim. That doesn't make it a bad fork, just not what you wanted.


I think, he is talking about the Yari, not the Mezzer, that is why 3 (!) years.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

At full extension and even a little in the travel I here a slight "clonk" and can feel it a little at the grips too, when I move it back and forward with pressed front break. Doing this with a hand on the lowers I can feel this "clonk". With fingers on the lowers and on the stanchions I cannot feel a clear relative movement between them. 
For me this does not feel right. Lowers are with bleed ports, but I am afraid for bushing play.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Lutsch said:


> At full extension and even a little in the travel I here a slight "clonk" and can feel it a little at the grips too, when I move it back and forward with pressed front break. Doing this with a hand on the lowers I can feel this "clonk". With fingers on the lowers and on the stanchions I cannot feel a clear relative movement between them.
> For me this does not feel right. Lowers are with bleed ports, but I am afraid for bushing play.


If you are not squeezing the brakes very hard, the pads will clonk in the caliper and you will feel it in the fork.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I'm only a couple rides in on mine but here are my initial thoughts. Preface, I thought my Ribbon air was okay until I put a '21 Pike Ultimate on my hardtail and felt more in control on that bike than I did on my FS. I like my Pike but totally see what Dougal is talking about regarding it being very reliant on the air spring. I'm 160-165lbs (maybe 170 with a full pack in winter) in gear have have it set to 150mm. Started at 55/84 with LSC pretty open and HSC wide open. Great on bigger hits but and good everywhere else, but not a drastic difference from my Pike. Dropped to 50/80 and added a click of LSC. Better, but not a revelation.

Today went 46/74 and added another click LSC (4 or 5 from open I think), open HSC. Holy crap. Still feels great on what for me are bigger hits, but the difference in the rock gardens is amazing. So much smoother and in control. Before it felt like once I was on a line it was fine to plow through, but now I can adjust my line in a way I couldn't before and be much more precise. I may fiddle some more, but today was eye opening.

Kaz definitely had pressures too high for his review. In fairness, had I only used the guidance given by Manitou (rather than this thread), I likely would of ended up too high as well.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

CCS86 said:


> If you are not squeezing the brakes very hard, the pads will clonk in the caliper and you will feel it in the fork.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Does not matter how strong I squeeze, the result is the same. By hand I cannot feel any movement of the pads.
I put the bike up side down with removed front wheel. One hand on the stanchion other one on the lowers and in this condition I cannot feel a movement. Do not know if I should if the fork has bushing play or if the applied force it too low so that it is not possible to check it in this way.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

Curveball said:


> I'm finally getting some time on my Mezzer and I think it's starting to break in. Since Dougal weighs the same as me, I went with his 35/55 pressures and that seems to be working quite well. It takes some decent-size drops very smoothly.
> 
> Now that it's working better, I'm becoming quite impressed with it. I found out that I can launch jumps a whole lot better with it (IRT?). Once the higher trails melt out, then I can see how it does on steep chunk.


Just finished building a Size 3 GG Gnarvana with Mezzer Pro and took it for a few rides. It was a pleasure (plush and supportive) in our trails here in Switzerland - trails were slippery so I was not pushing but were up to 40% grade and rooty with drops. I set the fork to Manitou recommendations for Enduro and my 95-ish kg mass. After the first section I was concerned that I was using too much travel but did not bottom on subsequent sections/days.

Early days but thumbs up from me. Not really a comparison as I was moving from a Canyon Torque (27.5" wheels, Fox 36 + Vorsprung) to GG in 29" and so there are too many variables that have changed.

PS Under the same "logic" I recommend the Formula Mod shock.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Lutsch said:


> Does not matter how strong I squeeze, the result is the same. By hand I cannot feel any movement of the pads.
> I put the bike up side down with removed front wheel. One hand on the stanchion other one on the lowers and in this condition I cannot feel a movement. Do not know if I should if the fork has bushing play or if the applied force it too low so that it is not possible to check it in this way.


Can you feel it when riding on the trail? If not stop looking for a problem. If yes then the bushings are loose and Hayes will replace.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

funkymonks said:


> Anyone have any knowledge as to when these will be available in the US again? I really don't want to have to buy a Fox 36.


You might try calling Hayes. They're very nice and would likely have the best answer.


----------



## funkymonks (Aug 23, 2017)

Curveball said:


> You might try calling Hayes. They're very nice and would like have the best answer.


I didn't directly call Hayes but I've heard thru a couple dealers that end of April, early May was the earliest to expect a restock.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

funkymonks said:


> I didn't directly call Hayes but I've heard thru a couple dealers that end of April, early May was the earliest to expect a restock.


I bought mine through Hayes and they would be worth talking to.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I heard the same directly from Hayes, thus my decision to just get a 51mm offset instead of waiting for 44.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lutsch said:


> At full extension and even a little in the travel I here a slight "clonk" and can feel it a little at the grips too, when I move it back and forward with pressed front break. Doing this with a hand on the lowers I can feel this "clonk". With fingers on the lowers and on the stanchions I cannot feel a clear relative movement between them.
> For me this does not feel right. Lowers are with bleed ports, but I am afraid for bushing play.


Check for loose parts in the axle, brake, headset, foot bolts etc.

Bushings don't clonk unless they're so loose you can see it. So it's something else.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Things are starting to melt out here and I've been able to put two days on the new damper. It's feeling pretty good so far. I probably won't be able to get it on a sustained downhill where the harshness became really noticable for a month or more though.

With LSC at 2-3 from closed, HSC 1 from open, and 62/92 psi the support feels good. Really good.

If I can run it at these settings without it feeling harsh in the rougher stuff, it will be a new "gold standard" to compare the next fork to, lol. Mostly just because it would be about 200g lighter than the modified Lyrik that's the current gold standard.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Things are starting to melt out here and I've been able to put two days on the new damper. It's feeling pretty good so far. I probably won't be able to get it on a sustained downhill where the harshness became really noticable for a month or more though.
> 
> With LSC at 2-3 from closed, HSC 1 from open, and 62/92 psi the support feels good. Really good.
> 
> If I can run it at these settings without it feeling harsh in the rougher stuff, it will be a new "gold standard" to compare the next fork to, lol. Mostly just because it would be about 200g lighter than the modified Lyrik that's the current gold standard.


Rider weight?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

210 riding


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

mike156 said:


> Things are starting to melt out here and I've been able to put two days on the new damper. It's feeling pretty good so far. I probably won't be able to get it on a sustained downhill where the harshness became really noticable for a month or more though.
> 
> With LSC at 2-3 from closed, HSC 1 from open, and 62/92 psi the support feels good. Really good.
> 
> If I can run it at these settings without it feeling harsh in the rougher stuff, it will be a new "gold standard" to compare the next fork to, lol. Mostly just because it would be about 200g lighter than the modified Lyrik that's the current gold standard.


What is your rebound setting?


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

mike156 said:


> With LSC at 2-3 from closed, HSC 1 from open, and 62/92 psi the support feels good. Really good.





mike156 said:


> 210 riding


I'm about your weight and running similar settings except that I have HSC at 3 from closed and Rebound at 9 from closed. As an aside, it's pretty standard to talk about clicks from closed because closed is a common reference point whereas the number of clicks to open can vary depending on manufacturing tolerance stacks.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I had been running at 6 from closed, I'll have to double check that though. Rebound is likely something I'll play with first if I do find it still harsh on rough sections.

I'm not going to get into how to count clicks. I don't disagree, but many in this thread have preferred HSC as clicks from open. That's why I specifically stated how I counted it though.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Counting from closed makes the most sense for needle valves (LSR, LSC), but high speed poppets are best counted from open.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It's kind of splitting hairs either way, but personally I'd rather stick to convention and count from closed.

It's irrelevant really though. Most adjusters won't actually sit at a detent when fully closed. The first "click" on one adjuster could be nearly 2 clicks on another adjuster.

Same can be said from open on HSC. Fully open there will be no preload on probably every Mezzer, but 1 click in from open might be 1lb of preload on one adjuster but 5lb on another. 

Also, the Mezzer has hard stops on the adjuster that provide pretty clear limits anyway. Counting from open or closed won't really matter. I don't think people are seeing one Mezzer have 12 clicks of adjustment and another having 8 because of large machining variations?


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Counting from closed makes the most sense for needle valves (LSR, LSC), but high speed poppets are best counted from open.


I'm trying to picture why this makes sense but I can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the reasoning for this?



mike156 said:


> It's kind of splitting hairs either way


This is MTBR, this is what we do. 😤


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> I'm trying to picture why this makes sense but I can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the reasoning for this?
> 
> This is MTBR, this is what we do. ?


at a guess because the needle is generally "closed when closed"in both static & in motion?, poppets have a spring preload, so the shims are only closed when static not when in motion, just firmer.? but it's rabbit hole territory regardless.

I understand the premise from counting from closed but I always count from open on my own bikes.
I set up sag with zero damping, then add damping from there by feel when riding & keep track of what I add, simplifies the process for me.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Counting from closed makes the most sense for needle valves (LSR, LSC), but high speed poppets are best counted from open.


Do you have any photographs of the Mezzer EXPERT damper's internals?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Do you have any photographs of the Mezzer EXPERT damper's internals?


I don't. The VVT compression damper assembly externally looks a lot like ABS+. The rebound damper looks like the same reduced diameter cartridge that the 2014-20 Mattoc Pro ran.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I don't. The VVT compression damper assembly externally looks a lot like ABS+. The rebound damper looks like the same reduced diameter cartridge that the 2014-20 Mattoc Pro ran.


Can you tell me what type of damper it is? How does it compare to other "second tier" dampers like MoCo or GRIP? Wondering how much better the MC2 is beyond increased adjustment. Thanks for your time!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

johnsogr said:


> Can you tell me what type of damper it is? How does it compare to other "second tier" dampers like MoCo or GRIP? Wondering how much better the MC2 is beyond increased adjustment. Thanks for your time!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It will compare the best to the MC^2 damper used in the 2014-2020 Mattoc Pro. Except the Mezzer expert will have my high flow piston upgrade from the factory.

Not comparable at all to GRIP or MOCO in my opinion. GRIP is harsh due to a full diameter mid-valve piston. Motion Control is honestly the worst damper I've ridden in a modern fork.

The Pro version gets the bladder damper (so you can run degassed oil and keep it from foaming with repeated high speed events) and independent HSC/LSC. Which IMO are worth it for my riding. Your set of requirements will likely vary.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Thank you, Dougal! Always appreciate education


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ccolagio (Apr 15, 2020)

@Headoc - super useful comparison. thank you for posting!

if you dont mind me asking, what is your rider weight?


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

ccolagio said:


> @Headoc - super useful comparison. thank you for posting!
> 
> if you dont mind me asking, what is your rider weight?


185 geared.


----------



## manelnunez (Aug 31, 2011)

What is the feeling on going from a 44mm offset fork to a 51mm on a 160mm 29r bike? Do you think it is going one step back? 

Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

IMO I would stick with 44. I think 44 helps with wheel flop. Especially if the bike was originally designed for it.

Note: this is a completely uneducated opinion based purely on moving around from 51 to 44 on my own bikes.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

manelnunez said:


> What is the feeling on going from a 44mm offset fork to a 51mm on a 160mm 29r bike? Do you think it is going one step back?
> 
> Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


What bike? What is the bikes stock fork travel?


----------



## manelnunez (Aug 31, 2011)

TraxFactory said:


> What bike? What is the bikes stock fork travel?


It's a stumpjumper evo 29 with 160mm front and 150mm rear

Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

manelnunez said:


> It's a stumpjumper evo 29 with 160mm front and 150mm rear
> 
> Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


Get the 44. That's what comes stock.


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

az6669 said:


> After a couple hundred miles on the Mezzer (MY20, bleeders, no bushing play, no creaking), and having ridden a 2020 Fox 36 Grip 2, 2018 X Fusion Metric, and Fox 36 RC2 on the same bike / wheels / tires (except for the RC2, different wheel & tire) some impressions:
> 
> I'm about 185lbs with gear
> 
> ...


Sped up the rebound 2 clicks - fork feels even better. Going to add a wee bit of air in both chambers. In really step chunky terrain I need more support and end up closing up the high speed and low speed to make up for it. Maybe relying a bit less on damping and more on air for the support will get that magic carpet ride I got on the RC2


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

Also I'm on my third manitou fender. The middle tab keeps breaking off. Anybody else with a similar issue?


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

manelnunez said:


> What is the feeling on going from a 44mm offset fork to a 51mm on a 160mm 29r bike? Do you think it is going one step back?
> 
> Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


I agonized over this question recently as I could get a screaming deal on a 51mm Mezzer to replace my barely functional 44mm Ribbon. 44mm Mezzer was going to be a few month wait. I'm on a Knolly Fugitive set up 135 coil rear and running the fork at 150mm. I barely notice a difference and frankly it's probably as much from the fork sitting differently and moving through the travel differently. If I had to nitpick, and these are barely perceptible differences, to the point where it could be all in my head:

51mm - better on switchbacks, probably what I've noticed the most, but wouldn't of noticed if someone had switched forks and didn't tell me. Maybe wanders a little more on very steep (20 percent or more) climbs, but it could be the Mezzer just rides higher which would do the same thing. That's it. I don't do tons of super high speed stuff and my bike doesn't have a overly long FC so stability differences I don't notice, nor do I feel any difference having to weight the front.

I'd suggest being really honest with yourself about how much you notice small differences and if you're the type of rider who can adapt to little changes. My mind was made up when I found a post from a while ago by Dougal answering the same question. Perhaps he can weigh in here as well.

All that said, if I had the choice between the two, same time, same price, I'd take the 44mm because I'd likely have an easier time selling it down the road.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

az6669 said:


> Also I'm on my third manitou fender. The middle tab keeps breaking off. Anybody else with a similar issue?


Not really.
But I haven't ride through places with loose wood.
When it eventually breake I will get a Mudhugger Shorty. I have one on my Mattoc and I love it.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Dup post...


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh sweet that is a nice one.


----------



## ccolagio (Apr 15, 2020)

@Headoc thanks. i had a theory that people who loved the mezzer P (watching a bunch of youtube reviews and such) were generally in the 200+lbs range w/o gear. im probably right around 175lbs geared up so about the same weight as you. so you kind of proved that theory wrong.

the complaints of harsh/overdamping got me stressed between this fork and the 2021 36. im in southern cal and the trails i ride are basically either a crap load of high speed bumps or big ol chunk. so want something smooth off the top and supportive in the midstroke to ride high in travel. likely leaning towards the 36.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Yesterday i went to a local store and saw the mezzer for the first time in the flesh. What a stunning fork. Felt ultralight, looked so sinister and evil. I even got to cycle it trough the travel and it felt sticktionless, absolutely zero breakaway sticktion. Woah, the dorado air seems perfect... I immediately realised that this is going to be my fork. Cant wait to get one. It was with the new lowers, 29 44 mil exactly whatni needed. The price was around 850 euros, the last piece availabe. Tbh it had a little scratch on the irt topcap and the cap around it, nothing serious. But at r2 bike and other sites they sell these for no more than 800. Should i get this one or should i order in your opinion?


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

elsinore said:


> Get the 44. That's what comes stock.


Fully agree.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

kiotae said:


> I agonized over this question recently as I could get a screaming deal on a 51mm Mezzer to replace my barely functional 44mm Ribbon. 44mm Mezzer was going to be a few month wait. I'm on a Knolly Fugitive set up 135 coil rear and running the fork at 150mm. I barely notice a difference and frankly it's probably as much from the fork sitting differently and moving through the travel differently. If I had to nitpick, and these are barely perceptible differences, to the point where it could be all in my head:
> 
> 51mm - better on switchbacks, probably what I've noticed the most, but wouldn't of noticed if someone had switched forks and didn't tell me. Maybe wanders a little more on very steep (20 percent or more) climbs, but it could be the Mezzer just rides higher which would do the same thing. That's it. I don't do tons of super high speed stuff and my bike doesn't have a overly long FC so stability differences I don't notice, nor do I feel any difference having to weight the front.
> 
> ...


Knolly makes that point exactly. In my experience once the bike get slacker, say under 65 , with more modern geo the 44 offset feels good, slightly less wheel barrow in sand feeling. For me on steeper HA like ~65.5 66 I like the 51, just feels snappier. Personally if I was getting a Stumpy EVO I would run the 44.

You can get used to anything, and there is always advantages and sacrifices with different setups.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

This is making me feel lucky i managed to find a 44mm  germany coming thru with the goods

Titan frame finally came so maybe i can actually test it out haha

I found as above, on steep HTA bikes like Kona Honzo ST the 51mm offset pairs nicely


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ccolagio said:


> @Headoc thanks. i had a theory that people who loved the mezzer P (watching a bunch of youtube reviews and such) were generally in the 200+lbs range w/o gear. im probably right around 175lbs geared up so about the same weight as you. so you kind of proved that theory wrong.
> 
> the complaints of harsh/overdamping got me stressed between this fork and the 2021 36. im in southern cal and the trails i ride are basically either a crap load of high speed bumps or big ol chunk. so want something smooth off the top and supportive in the midstroke to ride high in travel. likely leaning towards the 36.


If you think a Mezzer is overdamped you're not going to have a good time on a F36. Same with mid-stroke. The mid stroke support of solo air springs do not compare well against IRT.
But don't take my word for it. Look up some videos of people riding the orange forks and watch how their bars kick on every sharp bump.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

TraxFactory said:


> Knolly makes that point exactly. In my experience once the bike get slacker, say under 65 , with more modern geo the 44 offset feels good, slightly less wheel barrow in sand feeling. For me on steeper HA like ~65.5 66 I like the 51, just feels snappier. Personally if I was getting a Stumpy EVO I would run the 44.
> 
> You can get used to anything, and there is always advantages and sacrifices with different setups.


What I've read agrees, the Fugitive is right on the borderline where offset makes a small difference that lets one tweak the handling, but doesn't do much drastic. I don't have experience with slacker bikes, I thought the Stumpy was same as the Fugitive, but that's why I mentioned what I rode in case it was drastically different. In that case, my findings aren't applicable.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Hey guys, I haven't even thought about servicing my Mezzer LE Pro since installing it around 3 months ago so it's due for it's 50 hour service and it's already plenty warm here in TX (unfortunately). weather is crap this weekend so it's a good time to get it knocked out. I've noticed for a while that the fork doesn't feel as smooth as it did at first.

Just to clarify the service procedure: I need to remove the lowers, dump the oil of both sides, and add 15cc back in to both sides while holding the lowers horizontal and reinstalling them without leaking oil? Maybe put some Slickoleum on the IRT piston and associated bits while I'm in there? Is this all?

Also, I have 2 fork oils on hand, 1 is 'Fox High Performance Fork Fluid 20WT Gold Low Friction Formula' & the other is 'Golden Spectro Cartridge Fork Fluid Synthetic/ Petroleum Blend 85/150 5W'.

I did order the Manitou tools sometime back so should have any needed specialty tools needed.

CCS86, Dougal, Bueller..., anyone that can clarify this?

PS. I have a buddy on the far side of town that has SuperGliss on the shelf if I really need to go grab some.

PSS. Just watched a Hayes video online and they injected 20cc of some unknown oil in to the lowers. I dunno.


----------



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

kiotae said:


> I agonized over this question recently as I could get a screaming deal on a 51mm Mezzer to replace my barely functional 44mm Ribbon. 44mm Mezzer was going to be a few month wait. I'm on a Knolly Fugitive set up 135 coil rear and running the fork at 150mm. I barely notice a difference and frankly it's probably as much from the fork sitting differently and moving through the travel differently. If I had to nitpick, and these are barely perceptible differences, to the point where it could be all in my head:
> 
> 51mm - better on switchbacks, probably what I've noticed the most, but wouldn't of noticed if someone had switched forks and didn't tell me. Maybe wanders a little more on very steep (20 percent or more) climbs, but it could be the Mezzer just rides higher which would do the same thing. That's it. I don't do tons of super high speed stuff and my bike doesn't have a overly long FC so stability differences I don't notice, nor do I feel any difference having to weight the front.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this and the comments above. Especially the tight switch backs.

I am very sensitive to very small changes in my bikes and their setups. Some peole are not and won't notice a difference at all. And for those people I envy you. I wish I wasn't so observant as to how my bikes feel.

I feel that 44 offset forks make the ride more enjoyable as they make everything calmer. Going up and down.

The wheel flop on a 51 offset fork is so aggravating to me and constantly correcting the front end makes my rides nerve racking.

The only time I prefer the 51 is on a 69 degree angled XC bike, and even then, it's a tossup.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, I haven't even thought about servicing my Mezzer LE Pro since installing it around 3 months ago so it's due for it's 50 hour service and it's already plenty warm here in TX (unfortunately). weather is crap this weekend so it's a good time to get it knocked out. I've noticed for a while that the fork doesn't feel as smooth as it did at first.
> 
> Just to clarify the service procedure: I need to remove the lowers, dump the oil of both sides, and add 15cc back in to both sides while holding the lowers horizontal and reinstalling them without leaking oil? Maybe put some Slickoleum on the IRT piston and associated bits while I'm in there? Is this all?
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've got it. IRT needs grease on the shaft as well as piston. Inject the oil when the lower legs are on but the shafts not engaged with fork angled up and you won't spill any.
Fox 20wt will work. Supergliss is better.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Zerort said:


> I have to agree with this and the comments above. Especially the tight switch backs.
> 
> I am very sensitive to very small changes in my bikes and their setups. Some peole are not and won't notice a difference at all. And for those people I envy you. I wish I wasn't so observant as to how my bikes feel.
> 
> ...


A guy who used to work for me has a 29" Mezzer 51 offset on his SC Megatower. I haven't ridden the bike past a car-park test but he like it better and he's a far faster rider than me.
His previous fork was a F36 GRIP2. Presuming shorter offset. Interestingly he went back to the Fox for a bit and kept crashing!


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Look up some videos of people riding the orange forks and watch how their bars kick on every sharp bump.


LOL! Since I'm working from home, I've been watching far too many YouTube mountain biking videos. If the rider is wearing a chest-mount camera, then you can see what the bars are doing over the terrain. And yes, I've certainly noticed the sharp kicks from guys using F36's (and Lyriks). Doesn't look very fun to me.

I haven't seen very many videos with a Mezzer on the front, but for the few that I have seen, it looks much smoother.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

For anybody that thinks the mezzer is over damped here is something.

I have a bybtelemetry measurement system and I can tell you the difference betwen a mezzer and a formula selva with the blue cts (second lowest hsc damping)
On the formula I rarely measured a max compression speed above 3,5 m/s.
On my mezzer I regularly hit around 4,5 m/s.
The other day I was a little long on a drop that transferes into a berm and hit the front wheel hard. I recorded 7,2 m/s max compression speed.
My settings are 150mm, 55/90, -5lsr, -4lsc, +1hsc.

My mezzer rides a lot smother than my selva. And I think that the stock tune on the mezzer is very well chosen.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Sounds like you've got it. IRT needs grease on the shaft as well as piston. Inject the oil when the lower legs are on but the shafts not engaged with fork angled up and you won't spill any.
> Fox 20wt will work. Supergliss is better.


Thank you.

Where would I ever use this bottle of Fox Float Fluid Anti-Friction lube?
Can it be used as bath oil?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Where would I ever use this bottle of Fox Float Fluid Anti-Friction lube?
> Can it be used as bath oil?
> ...


We stopped using FLOAT Fluid entirely about 2 years ago. So there's your answer.
Using it even in rear shocks it would either just fill up your negative chamber or fill up your shock pump.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Curveball said:


> LOL! Since I'm working from home, I've been watching far too many YouTube mountain biking videos. If the rider is wearing a chest-mount camera, then you can see what the bars are doing over the terrain. And yes, I've certainly noticed the sharp kicks from guys using F36's (and Lyriks). Doesn't look very fun to me.
> 
> I haven't seen very many videos with a Mezzer on the front, but for the few that I have seen, it looks much smoother.


First ride out since I pulled 1 shim from the HSC stack and 1 shim from the rebound stack. Feels great.

This is my first time on these trails, so my lines are not the best:


----------



## manelnunez (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks everybody for the answers, I was wondering the question because I have a hot sale in one 51mm mezzer,so I'm going to think about it! 

Enviado desde mi ALP-L09 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

CCS86, I really enjoyed Cat mountain the one time I rode there about 6 weeks ago, although traditionally I'm pretty weak on new terrain. It's a shame I haven't gotten more time out there as it's only 30 minutes away. That creek gap that your buddy endoed on scares me! But I guess endoeing up top is better than coming up short. Plan to ride there more in the near future. It's a top 3-4 local Austin places for me for sure but it does require a shuttle for the most part.

Anyways, my Mezzer damping has always felt great, however recently the fork felt a lot more like an air fork with the stiction. The old bath old was definitely discolored. So when I added the new bath oil I had the fork tilted so that the oil could get above the upper bushings. Afterwards I did my customary test ride where I smash it into a few local curbs and holy cow it felt like a different fork, so plush and smooth! Better than it's ever felt in the 3 months I've been on it.

Is this difference a factor of the fresh oil or is this really because the oil hasn't migrated downwards yet? Will my fork feel like this every ride if I store it upside down?

Thanks.

PS. Just went and turned all 3 bikes upside down in the garage.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Might have just been a bit dry on the foam rings. Did you just change bath oil, or grease things as well? Grease can definitely make a big difference.

You can always inject a bit of oil through the "bleed ports" to directly lube the foam rings and upper bushings without even opening the fork.

With your bike upside down, you can connect your pump and fully cycle the fork with it upside down for some extra oil spreading effect.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I greased the air shafts, seals and added slick honey to the seal lips as well.
What a difference. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> CCS86, I really enjoyed Cat mountain the one time I rode there about 6 weeks ago, although traditionally I'm pretty weak on new terrain. It's a shame I haven't gotten more time out there as it's only 30 minutes away. That creek gap that your buddy endoed on scares me! But I guess endoeing up top is better than coming up short. Plan to ride there more in the near future. It's a top 3-4 local Austin places for me for sure but it does require a shuttle for the most part.
> 
> Anyways, my Mezzer damping has always felt great, however recently the fork felt a lot more like an air fork with the stiction. The old bath old was definitely discolored. So when I added the new bath oil I had the fork tilted so that the oil could get above the upper bushings. Afterwards I did my customary test ride where I smash it into a few local curbs and holy cow it felt like a different fork, so plush and smooth! Better than it's ever felt in the 3 months I've been on it.
> 
> ...


Air-spring and IRT grease IMO make the biggest differences. Straight after a service the difference between greasing the upper bushings and waiting for oil to get up there is huge.


----------



## John232629 (Oct 11, 2005)

How does one inject oil into the bleed ports?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

John232629 said:


> How does one inject oil into the bleed ports?


Manitou have a bleed kit: Damper Bleed Tool Kit (Manitou) | Shockcraft
But it's the same M5 bleed fittings as some Shimano brakes and Rockshox Reverb/Monarch/Charger2.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Suns_PSD said:


> Hey guys, I haven't even thought about servicing my Mezzer LE Pro since installing it around 3 months ago so it's due for it's 50 hour service and it's already plenty warm here in TX (unfortunately). weather is crap this weekend so it's a good time to get it knocked out. I've noticed for a while that the fork doesn't feel as smooth as it did at first.
> 
> Just to clarify the service procedure: I need to remove the lowers, dump the oil of both sides, and add 15cc back in to both sides while holding the lowers horizontal and reinstalling them without leaking oil? Maybe put some Slickoleum on the IRT piston and associated bits while I'm in there? Is this all?
> 
> ...


Use the fox gold, but either will work fine. Manitou specs motorex 40 weight engine oil for the lowers.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Before every ride I smear some R.S.P. Slick Kick mixed with Supergliss on the stanchions, cycle the lower and wipe de excess.
It's not the same as a fresh serviced fork, but it's the second best thing.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Aglo said:


> Before every ride I smear some R.S.P. Slick Kick mixed with Supergliss on the stanchions, cycle the lower and wipe de excess.
> It's not the same as a fresh serviced fork, but it's the second best thing.


If you ride in dusty conditions that can just make grinding paste. I prefer to keep the lube oil inside the fork. A healthy set of wipers leaves enough of an oil film on the stanchions that they appear glossy. If they look dull and a few pumps doesn't make them glossy then it's lower leg service time.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> If you ride in dusty conditions that can just make grinding paste. I prefer to keep the lube oil inside the fork. A healthy set of wipers leaves enough of an oil film on the stanchions that they appear glossy. If they look dull and a few pumps doesn't make them glossy then it's lower leg service time.


True.

I like to use bath oil to float debris out of the wiper. I put a ring of oil on the stanchion, cycle the fork a few times, wipe it all off, cycle, wipe...


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

az6669 said:


> Also I'm on my third manitou fender. The middle tab keeps breaking off. Anybody else with a similar issue?


Mine broke there right off the bat. I put a large diameter washer under the screw and it's been working fine. Wish it was a little thicker material in the area.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Mine also broke because of wind turbulence on my car rack.
Then I made a plate from aluminum that attaches with the top screw and covers a larger amount of the fender.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> First ride out since I pulled 1 shim from the HSC stack and 1 shim from the rebound stack. Feels great.
> 
> This is my first time on these trails, so my lines are not the best:


how bad did that nose dive end up screwing up that poor guy?


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> First ride out since I pulled 1 shim from the HSC stack and 1 shim from the rebound stack. Feels great.
> 
> This is my first time on these trails, so my lines are not the best:


Since you mention it. What is the change with the shim on Rebound side? Worth opening the damper for it or only if can't get Rebound fast enough?

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Couple of tuning questions as I try to eek out the last 5% of performance out of my Mezzer:

* Does anyone run less than 1.5x pressure in their IRT? I don't get into the last 20% of my travel even on chunky trails so I wonder if I'm hitting the progressive part of the spring too early and leaving some plushness on the table. No big drops or g-outs though.

* Can you make a short travel Mezzer soak up high speed braking bumps like a moto without wallowing in turns? Dial HSC damping up or down (I've seen some conflicting info here), or something else?

I'm running my Mezzer at 140mm IRT93 MAIN62 HSC3 LSC3 REB9 @ 200lb. Clicks counted from closed.

Thanks!


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

romulin said:


> Since you mention it. What is the change with the shim on Rebound side? Worth opening the damper for it or only if can't get Rebound fast enough?


Until recently I had my rebound at minus 5-6 clicks. I decided to wind it fully open and test and really preferred the feel. It made sense to lighten the stack, so I could keep going in that direction until I found the sweet spot. I only have one ride on it since the re-shim, and on unfamiliar terrain, so I can't really say yet whether pulling the shim will ultimately benefit me compared to running wide open on adjuster. Taking that shim out gives you the MY21 rebound tune, so Manitou thought it was better this way (in some sense).



GiddyHitch said:


> Couple of tuning questions as I try to eek out the last 5% of performance out of my Mezzer:
> 
> * Does anyone run less than 1.5x pressure in their IRT? I don't get into the last 20% of my travel even on chunky trails so I wonder if I'm hitting the progressive part of the spring too early and leaving some plushness on the table. No big drops or g-outs though.
> 
> ...


Check out the user setups: Mezzer User Setups

I see ratios as low as 1.2

I personally wouldn't setup my fork to use ll the travel on normal chunky terrain, even if I didn't hit jumps/drops. Bottom-out isn't a place you "want to be". Your wheelbase is significantly shortened and other geometry compromised. Not where I want the bike when I'm blasting down a chunky section.

If you aren't hitting jumps/drops, find a pressure setup that you like, with "normal" pressure ratios. Then experiment with +/- 3 psi in each chamber. See what you like the feel of and don't worry about travel used IMO.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> Couple of tuning questions as I try to eek out the last 5% of performance out of my Mezzer:
> 
> * Does anyone run less than 1.5x pressure in their IRT? I don't get into the last 20% of my travel even on chunky trails so I wonder if I'm hitting the progressive part of the spring too early and leaving some plushness on the table. No big drops or g-outs though.
> 
> ...


join the club, I've never used the last 25mm of travel (160mm) regardless of where or what I hit so far.
I always get to the HBO but never seem to get into it, this is where I think the adjustable HBO on the mattoc was better as you could dial in how much bottom out you wanted, it does have a different end of stroke spring curve though.

The other thing at play is the air spring progression, there were some charts further back showing the spring curve & the ramp up in the last 20%, it's rather large on the mezzer.
I did a ride with main pressure at 75 & no IRT to see what it's like & although I didn't hit anything large I still didn't get into the last 25mm.

100kg currently on 68 main,97 irt, so I'm less than 1.5x. & at 20% sag. I find the feel is best at 20% for me.
I have experimented with multiple combinations & sag levels & still the same story, short of getting the drill out to modify the hbo , I've just accepted I'm not riding the bike hard or fast enough to use all the travel...which I have mixed feelings about.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GiddyHitch said:


> Couple of tuning questions as I try to eek out the last 5% of performance out of my Mezzer:
> 
> * Does anyone run less than 1.5x pressure in their IRT? I don't get into the last 20% of my travel even on chunky trails so I wonder if I'm hitting the progressive part of the spring too early and leaving some plushness on the table. No big drops or g-outs though.
> 
> ...


My advice is to wind out the HSC first. See how you like that result. IMO there is no reason to run extra HSC if you aren't getting full travel. I have run a lot less than 1.5x pressure ratios on my spring tester (to find a setting that will work for the girls) but I haven't run it myself on the trail.
I have no issue getting full travel at 40/60psi.

Fork progression depends on the total air in the fork. So the lower pressure chamber has a big effect too. Try 55psi.



cashews said:


> join the club, I've never used the last 25mm of travel (160mm) regardless of where or what I hit so far.
> I always get to the HBO but never seem to get into it, this is where I think the adjustable HBO on the mattoc was better as you could dial in how much bottom out you wanted, it does have a different end of stroke spring curve though.
> 
> The other thing at play is the air spring progression, there were some charts further back showing the spring curve & the ramp up in the last 20%, it's rather large on the mezzer.
> ...


I reckon drop main to 60psi. Don't drill anything as HBO is highly speed sensitive. If you're slowly getting into full travel it won't have much effect.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I swear Manitou must have left my HBO out because my o-ring is slammed against the upper after every ride using 1.87 ratio.
Rides perfect though. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> I swear Manitou must have left my HBO out because my o-ring is slammed against the upper after every ride using 1.87 ratio.
> Rides perfect though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


If the o-ring is touching the crown, it might be very loose, or your bottom out bumpers missing, because the fork doesn't travel that far.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

When will this fork get back in stock so I can order it and see what the fuzz is all about?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Suns_PSD said:


> I swear Manitou must have left my HBO out because my o-ring is slammed against the upper after every ride using 1.87 ratio.
> Rides perfect though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Hmm, mine stops a bit short of the crown. That doesn't seem quite right.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> Check out the user setups: Mezzer User Setups
> 
> I see ratios as low as 1.2
> 
> ...


That's a big "oh, duh" moment for me. I referenced that spreadsheet during my initial setup but had it in my head that everyone was running ratios at 1.5 or above and had remembered reading that number as a rule of thumb in this very thread. Sure enough though, the guys running these forks at 140mm are around 1.4.

Just to clarify, I do like to hit jumps and drops but my limit is about 3ft.



cashews said:


> join the club, I've never used the last 25mm of travel (160mm) regardless of where or what I hit so far ...
> 
> The other thing at play is the air spring progression, there were some charts further back showing the spring curve & the ramp up in the last 20%, it's rather large on the mezzer.
> I did a ride with main pressure at 75 & no IRT to see what it's like & although I didn't hit anything large I still didn't get into the last 25mm.
> ...


Good to know that I'm not the only one.



Dougal said:


> My advice is to wind out the HSC first. See how you like that result. IMO there is no reason to run extra HSC if you aren't getting full travel. I have run a lot less than 1.5x pressure ratios on my spring tester (to find a setting that will work for the girls) but I haven't run it myself on the trail.
> I have no issue getting full travel at 40/60psi.
> 
> Fork progression depends on the total air in the fork. So the lower pressure chamber has a big effect too. Try 55psi.


Thanks for the advice, Dougal, even if you did just call me a girl. 😉



kimochi said:


> When will this fork get back in stock so I can order it and see what the fuzz is all about?


Tree Fort has a 29 and WC has a 27.5 in black or silver.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

CCS86 said:


> If the o-ring is touching the crown, it might be very loose, or your bottom out bumpers missing, because the fork doesn't travel that far.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I need to explore this but have no idea how.

One can 'tighten' or adjust the HBO once they get it in their hands?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> I need to explore this but have no idea how.
> 
> One can 'tighten' or adjust the HBO once they get it in their hands?


I meant the o-ring, not the HBO.

HBO is a set of fixed orifices. No adjustment. You would have to plug orifices to add damping.

Here is where the fork bottoms out:


----------



## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

GiddyHitch said:


> Tree Fort has a 29 and WC has a 27.5 in black or silver.


Thanks, but I wanted the 44mm offset


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> I swear Manitou must have left my HBO out because my o-ring is slammed against the upper after every ride using 1.87 ratio.
> Rides perfect though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


If you bottom out really fast the o-ring gets thrown past the seal and onto the bottom of the crown.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Dougal said:


> If you bottom out really fast the o-ring gets thrown past the seal and onto the bottom of the crown.


I see.

Would you change anything in response to this if the fork felt great? Additional HSC for instance?
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Ordered my mezzer on r2 bike ysterday. Got 29 51mm offset to run at 160 mm on my tyee mullet 2020. Cant wait!


----------



## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I see.
> 
> Would you change anything in response to this if the fork felt great? Additional HSC for instance?
> Thanks.
> ...


I would first suspect that your air spring rate is too soft. You need to get that right, first, and then adjust the damper knobs.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I feel the air spring rate is pretty ideal (22% standing sag & I ramp up IRT to whatever it needs to not use the travel too easily) and that I maybe should quit worrying about what the internet says, at least at certain times. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Touching bottom of travel after the hardest landing you are comfortable with is one thing. Bashing off the bottom all the time isn't something I would call job well done. I wouldn't have to consider "what the internet says".

What is your weight and travel? Running such a high IRT ratio, with 20% sag, and bottoming out all the time doesn't sound right.


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

Pinkbike has the new Mezzer expert review. A lot more positive on this review than the pro PB Mezzer expert review


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Ripbro said:


> Pinkbike has the new Mezzer expert review. A lot more positive on this review than the pro PB Mezzer expert review


Ya, Kaz appears to like it as it worked straight out of the box and didn't have to fiddle with pressures.

Also heard manitou is now advertising on PB so that always gets better reviews from them 🤣


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> Touching bottom of travel after the hardest landing you are comfortable with is one thing. Bashing off the bottom all the time isn't something I would call job well done. I wouldn't have to consider "what the internet says".
> 
> What is your weight and travel? Running such a high IRT ratio, with 20% sag, and bottoming out all the time doesn't sound right.


But he paid for HBO and dammit he is gonna use it as much as possible.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

006_007 said:


> But he paid for HBO and dammit he is gonna use it as much as possible.


I was recently hitting some 6' to 8' drops and enjoying the hell out of the HBO.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ripbro said:


> Pinkbike has the new Mezzer expert review. A lot more positive on this review than the pro PB Mezzer expert review


More and more I think the Expert is probably the better fork for most riders. Limiting the number of variables makes it more likely the end user will get a good riding setup, as the vast majority of riders put some air in, possibly play with the rebound, and maybe twirl the compression to see what it does. Even for those spending some time and wanting to get it right, the combination of two air pressures, high and low speed compression, and rebound can be overwhelming. For the 2% of us that really want a specific feel and are willing to spend the time to dial in the fork to feel the way we want and having the option to reshim, the Pro is worth it.

The expert is also easier to service for those starting out.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a Mezzer planned at some point. Whenever I get a new FS. And I have been thinking about that same thing. I just got a Fox 34 Grip 2. I added air set the knobs to standard. A friend messed with the knobs once. And I have not touched it since.

All that means I am a little undecided about which Mezzer to get. There is something to be said for "simple to set-up and just works"

The part that makes me waffle is "it was really good, but not great." If just a little more effort makes the Mezzer Pro great, that seems like it's probably worth it.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

New Mezzer owner here. I found it very easy to set up and get feeling great. If you've found this thread, I'm confident you'll have no trouble. I'd spring for the Pro if you can. It took me 4-5 rides and some extra reading vs my Pike which took 3-4.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

cassieno said:


> I have a Mezzer planned at some point. Whenever I get a new FS. And I have been thinking about that same thing. I just got a Fox 34 Grip 2. I added air set the knobs to standard. A friend messed with the knobs once. And I have not touched it since.
> 
> All that means I am a little undecided about which Mezzer to get. There is something to be said for "simple to set-up and just works"
> 
> The part that makes me waffle is "it was really good, but not great." If just a little more effort makes the Mezzer Pro great, that seems like it's probably worth it.


I got the expert, but have yet to ride it unfortunately. I got it for only $650, and put the IRT in aftermarket for only $50, leaving the only real difference to be the damper. I don't like to fiddle a ton, so if you're like me, Expert + IRT should be great!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Cary said:


> More and more I think the Expert is probably the better fork for most riders. Limiting the number of variables makes it more likely the end user will get a good riding setup, as the vast majority of riders put some air in, possibly play with the rebound, and maybe twirl the compression to see what it does. Even for those spending some time and wanting to get it right, the combination of two air pressures, high and low speed compression, and rebound can be overwhelming. For the 2% of us that really want a specific feel and are willing to spend the time to dial in the fork to feel the way we want and having the option to reshim, the Pro is worth it.
> 
> The expert is also easier to service for those starting out.





cassieno said:


> I have a Mezzer planned at some point. Whenever I get a new FS. And I have been thinking about that same thing. I just got a Fox 34 Grip 2. I added air set the knobs to standard. A friend messed with the knobs once. And I have not touched it since.
> 
> All that means I am a little undecided about which Mezzer to get. There is something to be said for "simple to set-up and just works"
> 
> The part that makes me waffle is "it was really good, but not great." If just a little more effort makes the Mezzer Pro great, that seems like it's probably worth it.





johnsogr said:


> I got the expert, but have yet to ride it unfortunately. I got it for only $650, and put the IRT in aftermarket for only $50, leaving the only real difference to be the damper. I don't like to fiddle a ton, so if you're like me, Expert + IRT should be great!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm in this space as well. Having never ridden a nice damper, I'm not sure how much I want/"need" a nicer one. And while I think I'm ok with fiddling with adjusters, when it comes down to it my current fork has literally 3 adjustments, only two of which I've ever touched (Moco yari, I leave compression open, and have bracketed air pressure, and rebound on some local trails).

The idea of an Expert + IRT sounds pretty appealing/interesting. Plus if I wanted, I could upgrade it later (at a small price penalty it looks like).

Is there some way of finding out what weight/speed level of rider the damper in the expert comes set for as its target? Is the Experts dampers easier to tweak? I also see people talking about it being open bath, and easier to maintain. Is that just pouring out old oil and adding enough in (ie, no bleeding the damper)?

Sorry for being new to all this, but at this point I'm just not very familiar with most suspension stuff (other than I generally know what the knobs are supposed to do, but not how to read damping charts/etc). Maybe the Expert needs its own thread.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

GiddyHitch said:


> * I don't get into the last 20% of my travel even on chunky trails so I wonder if I'm hitting the progressive part of the spring too early and leaving some plushness on the table. No big drops or g-outs though.
> 
> I'm running my Mezzer at 140mm IRT93 MAIN62 HSC3 LSC3 REB9 @ 200lb. Clicks counted from closed.





Dougal said:


> My advice is to wind out the HSC first. See how you like that result ...
> 
> Fork progression depends on the total air in the fork. So the lower pressure chamber has a big effect too. Try 55psi.


I went down 5% on my pressures (to 88/59) on my last ride and am now using 90% of my travel. Rode well but maybe a touch soft (could be in my head though) but will still try 83/55 or so to confirm.

At which point does the HBO start to ramp up?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

cassieno said:


> I have a Mezzer planned at some point. Whenever I get a new FS. And I have been thinking about that same thing. I just got a Fox 34 Grip 2. I added air set the knobs to standard. A friend messed with the knobs once. And I have not touched it since.
> 
> All that means I am a little undecided about which Mezzer to get. There is something to be said for "simple to set-up and just works"


My son's Ibis DV9 came with a 34 Grip. I figured we would rip it off in the first week given my past experience with fox (last go around was a 34 Factory, upgraded the air side, upgraded the damper to Fit4 (pre-grip 2017), finally fixed it by replacing with a Magnum Pro). I am shocked how good the base Grip on the Rhythm feels. Is it as good as the Magnum Pro, no, but is 95% of the way there (at least on a hardtail). Setup is dead nuts simple, add air, set rebound, leave the compression wide open and ride. It felt a little harsh at first, but I had to add air to keep it from sitting in the steep part of spring rampup (fox seems to like less sag than most).

For the vast majority of bike owners (as MTBR and like sites probably make up less than 5% of mountain bike riders), a good suspension is the one that has the least to screw up tuning. How many riders have you seen on the trails with suspension that is clearly set up with way too much or too little sag? The last I saw was a couple of weeks ago, a lady on a ebike with a fox 36 that was setup so stiff, she was getting pounded riding across some chunky dirt, the fork was not moving at all. She was on a full rigid.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Cary said:


> She was on a full rigid.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Cary said:


> My son's Ibis DV9 came with a 34 Grip. I figured we would rip it off in the first week given my past experience with fox (last go around was a 34 Factory, upgraded the air side, upgraded the damper to Fit4 (pre-grip 2017), finally fixed it by replacing with a Magnum Pro). I am shocked how good the base Grip on the Rhythm feels. Is it as good as the Magnum Pro, no, but is 95% of the way there (at least on a hardtail). Setup is dead nuts simple, add air, set rebound, leave the compression wide open and ride. It felt a little harsh at first, but I had to add air to keep it from sitting in the steep part of spring rampup (fox seems to like less sag than most).


GRIP is the little known hero of the Fox damper lineup. FIT4 is trash best left to the XC racer crowd who needs lockout.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

ocnLogan said:


> I'm in this space as well. Having never ridden a nice damper, I'm not sure how much I want/"need" a nicer one. And while I think I'm ok with fiddling with adjusters, when it comes down to it my current fork has literally 3 adjustments, only two of which I've ever touched (Moco yari, I leave compression open, and have bracketed air pressure, and rebound on some local trails).
> 
> The idea of an Expert + IRT sounds pretty appealing/interesting. Plus if I wanted, I could upgrade it later (at a small price penalty it looks like).
> 
> ...


Get the Expert and start with it stock. Set your sag at 20% to start and tweak +/- 5% to control how it feels off the top and for midstroke (i.e. small fast bumps and brake dive). If you are bottoming to much, move the IVA a notch or two in order to decrease the air spring volume. If you are not using full travel, move the IVA the other way. Start with the compression full open, set your rebound, then play with the compression on your rides to get it where you like it. The Expert's damper is far better than the Moco dampers from Rockshox, it will be a significant upgrade.

The damper will be tuned out of the box for 160-180 pound riders but will still work well over a wider range. I would not expect you to need to retune it unless you are under 130 pounds, over 250 pounds, or just a really picky rider who wants it to feel a certain way.

Also, it is not an open damper, it is semi-sealed damper that uses a foam compensator to keep the oil from foaming, but allow expansion if needed. It is a very good damper, very similar to the Mattoc damper. Servicing it consists basically of changing the oil, setting the oil height with a small ruler, and going and riding it. You can download the service manual, it is easy to do.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Cary said:


> She was on a full rigid.





Curveball said:


>


It was giving her quite a pounding. I know some like that, but she didn't appear to be enjoying it much.

I felt a little bad for her, $7,000 wasted because nobody spent any time to set it up.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

GiddyHitch said:


> GRIP is the little known hero of the Fox damper lineup. FIT4 is trash best left to the XC racer crowd who needs lockout.


I think it has become well known. It is just sad that Fox continues to sell FIT as it's top of the line and charge more for an inferior product. From their perspective, I guess they just see it as, if the consumer will pay, we will sell it to them.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Cary said:


> I think it has become well known. It is just sad that Fox continues to sell FIT as it's top of the line and charge more for an inferior product. From their perspective, I guess they just see it as, if the consumer will pay, we will sell it to them.


I guess the good thing about Fit 4 is that you can send it to Vorsprung for fractive tuning to make it work right.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Cary said:


> It was giving her quite a pounding. I know some like that, but she didn't appear to be enjoying it much.
> 
> I felt a little bad for her, $7,000 wasted because nobody spent any time to set it up.


I rode a rigid Fox 40 on a rental DH bike at a resort. That was hell. I couldn't ride braking bumps at more than a fast walking speed. I think either the spring rate was far too high for my weight, and/or it was never serviced properly.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Curveball said:


> I rode a rigid Fox 40 on a rental DH bike at a resort. That was hell. I couldn't ride braking bumps at more than a fast walking speed. I think either the spring rate was far too high for my weight, and/or it was never serviced properly.


More like serviced. At Northstar the rental bikes are referred to as donkeys. They are ridden hard and put away wet. There is no maintenance done, just parts replaced as they fail. At the end of 1 or 2 seasons they sell them off, to people who will amazing pay 50% of new retail for a completely trashed bike, most of which have mismatched wheels, tires, and brakes.

If you have to rent a DH bike, try to find a nearby shop. They will generally have well maintained bikes and the people that rent them tend to be enthusiest that don't trash them.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Quick question for you guys in the know. I know the Mezzer Pro has a 180mm post mount brake adapter. So I need to get the 180-203 adapter. But when I go online and search for the Hayes 180-203 adapter, nobody has it anywhere. Not even Hayes. So two questions. 

1. Is there any ETA on those coming in? 
2. Can I use another brand adapter that is 180-203?

Thanks


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Cary said:


> It was giving her quite a pounding. I know some like that, but she didn't appear to be enjoying it much.


😏


Cary said:


> I think it has become well known. It is just sad that Fox continues to sell FIT as it's top of the line and charge more for an inferior product. From their perspective, I guess they just see it as, if the consumer will pay, we will sell it to them.


Well known among the "nerds in the mtbr suspension forum" (comment from the PB Mezzer Expert article) but not well known among your average consumer. The natural assumption is that cheaper = worse.


Curveball said:


> I guess the good thing about Fit 4 is that you can send it to Vorsprung for fractive tuning to make it work right.


Wheee, I get to spend even more money to make my fork work right. Good thing that it's expensive. Ha. The Luftkappe was money extremely well spent on my FIT4 Factory though.


----------



## gillyske (Jun 20, 2019)

Anyone running a mezzer on a Merida E160 2020/1. Trying to find out if the frame has clearance for the reverse arch at bottom out.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gillyske said:


> Anyone running a mezzer on a Merida E160 2020/1. Trying to find out if the frame has clearance for the reverse arch at bottom out.


Why wouldn't it?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> More and more I think the Expert is probably the better fork for most riders. Limiting the number of variables makes it more likely the end user will get a good riding setup, as the vast majority of riders put some air in, possibly play with the rebound, and maybe twirl the compression to see what it does. Even for those spending some time and wanting to get it right, the combination of two air pressures, high and low speed compression, and rebound can be overwhelming. For the 2% of us that really want a specific feel and are willing to spend the time to dial in the fork to feel the way we want and having the option to reshim, the Pro is worth it.





cassieno said:


> ...I am a little undecided about which Mezzer to get. There is something to be said for "simple to set-up and just works"
> 
> The part that makes me waffle is "it was really good, but not great." If just a little more effort makes the Mezzer Pro great, that seems like it's probably worth it.





johnsogr said:


> I don't like to fiddle a ton, so if you're like me, Expert + IRT should be great!





ocnLogan said:


> The idea of an Expert + IRT sounds pretty appealing/interesting. Plus if I wanted, I could upgrade it later (at a small price penalty it looks like).


IMO, I would not avoid the Pro for fear of "too many adjustments".


Having the IRT simplifies your life, it doesn't complicate it. You can punch your travel and weight into my calculator, fill the chambers and leave it alone. If you ever need to add or remove progression, changing the IRT pressure by a few PSI is far easier and more precise than adding/removing tokens, and you get a more coil-like spring curve.

Having HSC and LSC isn't more complicated either. You can run both wide open on this fork, along with rebound, and it works beautifully. How much easier can it be?

Getting an Expert, then adding IRT still leaves you without hydraulic bottom out, which is worth its weight in gold if you ride hard enough to bottom the fork. Biff a landing and let HBO blow off the extra energy, instead of having it returned abruptly, overwhelming the rebound damping. It really helps you keep control and avoid a crash.


----------



## gillyske (Jun 20, 2019)

Cary said:


> Why wouldn't it?


eONE-SIXTY 8000 - MERIDA BIKES

The bike has a very straght chucky head tube area that has clearance issues even with the stock z1 that it has on there. a rotation on the handle bars far enough in 1 direction will see the CSU make contact with the frame. You can't run a 44mm offset fork for instance and should run a 51mm otherwise you'll definitely hit the frame if something goes wrong.

Its not obvious to me if the e160 has clearance for the reverse arch.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

SuperWookie said:


> Quick question for you guys in the know. I know the Mezzer Pro has a 180mm post mount brake adapter. So I need to get the 180-203 adapter. But when I go online and search for the Hayes 180-203 adapter, nobody has it anywhere. Not even Hayes. So two questions.
> 
> 1. Is there any ETA on those coming in?
> 2. Can I use another brand adapter that is 180-203?
> ...


you need a +23mm adaptor. I use a hope 160-183mm one.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gillyske said:


> eONE-SIXTY 8000 - MERIDA BIKES
> 
> The bike has a very straght chucky head tube area that has clearance issues even with the stock z1 that it has on there. a rotation on the handle bars far enough in 1 direction will see the CSU make contact with the frame. You can't run a 44mm offset fork for instance and should run a 51mm otherwise you'll definitely hit the frame if something goes wrong.
> 
> Its not obvious to me if the e160 has clearance for the reverse arch.


Ahh. The arch should not be a problem. The geometry is they don't get close to the down tube. The CSU, I have no idea.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

GiddyHitch said:


> Wheee, I get to spend even more money to make my fork work right. Good thing that it's expensive. Ha. The Luftkappe was money extremely well spent on my FIT4 Factory though.


LOL! You have no idea how much it grates me when you need make expensive mods to a fork just to make it work right. Too many examples to list. So many bikes come stock with sub-par forks that it's great that there are options to make them function correctly though.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Quick question for you guys in the know. I know the Mezzer Pro has a 180mm post mount brake adapter. So I need to get the 180-203 adapter. But when I go online and search for the Hayes 180-203 adapter, nobody has it anywhere. Not even Hayes. So two questions.
> 
> 1. Is there any ETA on those coming in?
> 2. Can I use another brand adapter that is 180-203?
> ...


1. No idea
2 north shore billet has a great selection of sizes and colors available on their website and it appears inventory on the 23mm version you need.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Where is the HBO located at and can I get a look at it without pulling down the entire fork?
Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> Where is the HBO located at and can I get a look at it without pulling down the entire fork?
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


jmvar's mezzer pro valving guide on the first page of the Mezzer owners setup thread shows the hbo in several pictures.
it's called a bottom out cup in the pics, the short tube with holes in it.
follow the guide & the official manitou service guide & damper bleeding procedure if you decide to get into it.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

006_007 said:


> 1. No idea
> 2 north shore billet has a great selection of sizes and colors available on their website and it appears inventory on the 23mm version you need.


I used the magura one no issue on mine (for mt7)


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> I went down 5% on my pressures (to 88/59) on my last ride and am now using 90% of my travel. Rode well but maybe a touch soft (could be in my head though) but will still try 83/55 or so to confirm.
> 
> At which point does the HBO start to ramp up?


dougal may have been referring to dropping the main only. either way it's easy to experiment with lower or higher IRT.

There was mention many pages back that the IRT piston starts to move once the main piston moves about 50mm. I don't know if that was a 180mm setting or if it changes with the travel settings or not.

There's also been several members mention that the fork feels the best at 180mm, I guess the relationship between the main chamber sizes & IRT chamber size changes as travel is decreased, the main reduces but the IRT volume stays the same.
I guess theres room for some experimenting with reducing the IRT stroke via o rings under the piston to reduce the chamber volume relative to the main volume...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You can see when your IRT piston moves by leaving a pump connected and looking for a change in pressure as you compress the fork. It will depend on the individual pressures, and the travel config as to when it happens.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

006_007 said:


> 1. No idea
> 2 north shore billet has a great selection of sizes and colors available on their website and it appears inventory on the 23mm version you need.


Follow up, are ALL/most of the bolts that hold the brake adapter on to the fork post mount, M6 x 20 size? I'm putting Hayes A4 brakes on the Mezzer Pro fork.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Follow up, are ALL/most of the bolts that hold the brake adapter on to the fork post mount, M6 x 20 size? I'm putting Hayes A4 brakes on the Mezzer Pro fork.


All same diameter and pitch, diff lengths. i just buy heaps of different lengths for cheap from local bolt supplier and match the right one


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

cashews said:


> dougal may have been referring to dropping the main only. either way it's easy to experiment with lower or higher IRT.
> 
> There was mention many pages back that the IRT piston starts to move once the main piston moves about 50mm. I don't know if that was a 180mm setting or if it changes with the travel settings or not.
> 
> ...


I believe you are correct. This is one of the really good things with the Diaz suspension runt, he sizes it based on fork travel. I haven't looked closely, but it appears it would not be hard to dissaemble the IRT and insert a delrin or 3d printed spacer, which would allow adjusting where the ramp up starts.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

spo0n said:


> All same diameter and pitch, diff lengths. i just buy heaps of different lengths for cheap from local bolt supplier and match the right one


So is that M6 size?


----------



## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

SuperWookie said:


> Quick question for you guys in the know. I know the Mezzer Pro has a 180mm post mount brake adapter. So I need to get the 180-203 adapter. But when I go online and search for the Hayes 180-203 adapter, nobody has it anywhere. Not even Hayes. So two questions.
> 
> 1. Is there any ETA on those coming in?
> 2. Can I use another brand adapter that is 180-203?
> ...


If you have an adapter for 180-200 (same as 160-180), use that and put a washer between the caliper and the adapter to add the extra 1.5mm. Alternatively, PM me and I may have a 180mm rotor I could trade for your 203mm.

In my experience most any brand of adapter should be interchangeable.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Follow up, are ALL/most of the bolts that hold the brake adapter on to the fork post mount, M6 x 20 size? I'm putting Hayes A4 brakes on the Mezzer Pro fork.


SRAM adapters come with the right bolts FWIW.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Just did a lowers service on my Mezzer and added some SuperGliss 100.

Want to give a super massive shoutout to Manitou for chamfering (?) the edges of the caps at the bottom of the stanchions so putting the lowers on was easy a pie unlike some other brands.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Just did a lowers service on my Mezzer and added some SuperGliss 100.
> 
> Want to give a super massive shoutout to Manitou for chamfering (?) the edges of the caps at the bottom of the stanchions so putting the lowers on was easy a pie unlike some other brands.


This makes such a huge difference.

Shame on you Rockshox.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Follow up, are ALL/most of the bolts that hold the brake adapter on to the fork post mount, M6 x 20 size? I'm putting Hayes A4 brakes on the Mezzer Pro fork.


The Dominions and Mezzer are an awesome combination.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Curveball said:


> The Dominions and Mezzer are an awesome combination.


I bet, it is almost like they were designed to work together.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> So is that M6 size?


Yep m6, Get some washers too and you're golden


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

spo0n said:


> Yep m6, Get some washers too and you're golden


And don't over torque - lower material is relatively soft. If in doubt use a torque wrench.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

So, I read so much about it and I'm ready to order.

What are the knwon faulty issues? I'm referring to the actual QC issues and not configuration errors (e.g. too much damping force)

Cheers


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> So, I read so much about it and I'm ready to order.
> 
> What are the knwon faulty issues? I'm referring to the actual QC issues and not configuration errors (e.g. too much damping force)
> 
> Cheers


Manitou customer support is generally awesome



Cary said:


> I bet, it is almost like they were designed to work together.


I got some Dominions in the mail to put on my Mezzer, can't wait


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Curveball said:


> The Dominions and Mezzer are an awesome combination.


This is what will be going on my G1. Dominions are rad.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> This makes such a huge difference.
> 
> Shame on you Rockshox.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


It was frickening amazing.

Normally with my Lyrik or my DVO I dread this step as its a literal fight all while praying I dont **** up the ring springy thingies.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Curveball said:


> The Dominions and Mezzer are an awesome combination.


Yeah, thanks to you, others, and lots of research, I ended up deciding on both. They both seem like top of the line products and really looking forward to getting this bike finally put together and RIDING!


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Yeah, thanks to you, others, and lots of research, I ended up deciding on both. They both seem like top of the line products and really looking forward to getting this bike finally put together and RIDING!


The Dominions were quite a revelation. I've been riding a long time and had no idea that brakes could be that good. I know you ride similar terrain that I do and I have no doubt that you'll be amazed by the Mezzer and Dominions.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Yeah, thanks to you, others, and lots of research, I ended up deciding on both. They both seem like top of the line products and really looking forward to getting this bike finally put together and RIDING!


How is the snow out that way? I haven't been able to ride the really good trails with the Mezzer yet because they're under too much snow still. Everything over about 1,500 feet seems to still be buried here.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Curveball said:


> How is the snow out that way? I haven't been able to ride the really good trails with the Mezzer yet because they're under too much snow still. Everything over about 1,500 feet seems to still be buried here.


Snows gone, but it'll be wet and soggy for another month or two. The trails around here are usually not ride able until mid-late May. But there a few trails that are new or I haven't been to before that should be alright in April-May. So looking forward to getting out! Hope you get out soon and get to see what the Mezzer can do!


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Curveball said:


> The Dominions were quite a revelation. I've been riding a long time and had no idea that brakes could be that good. I know you ride similar terrain that I do and I have no doubt that you'll be amazed by the Mezzer and Dominions.


Can you compare them to Shimano?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

GiddyHitch said:


> Can you compare them to Shimano?


I've used Shimano XT and SLX and the Dominions have more power and much smoother modulation. It's very easy to fine control the Dominions and there's loads of power when you want it. Also, no wandering bite point.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Manitou needs to do something about the shitty mud guard on the Mezzer. Mine broke (top part of the plastic where it bolts up) not even riding, just from the wind while driving on the freeway to the ride.

Anybody of you guys something else? If I replaced it with another from manitou, pretty sure it'll just break again.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

funks said:


> Manitou needs to do something about the shitty mud guard on the Mezzer. Mine broke (top part of the plastic where it bolts up) not even riding, just from the wind while driving on the freeway to the ride.
> 
> Anybody of you guys something else? If I replaced it with another from manitou, pretty sure it'll just break again.


Mine haven't broken (just did 1900km on a roof-rack) but a kids did with virtually nothing. I left the kids one and it's not broken any of the other tabs so it's staying like that.

The MY19 mudguards are the same moulding but stiffer plastic. I didn't see any of those break but when they get munched up, for example by a chairlift rack, they can take days to resume original shape. The rubbery later ones pop back immediately.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Pretty sure the rest of the people who broke their mudgaurds also broke it on the top tab. My fork was dated 2020.

Had bolted on mud guards from synchros, and those thin plastic mud guards you attach with zip tie's and non ever broke.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Mine haven't broken (just did 1900km on a roof-rack) but a kids did with virtually nothing. I left the kids one and it's not broken any of the other tabs so it's staying like that.
> 
> The MY19 mudguards are the same moulding but stiffer plastic. I didn't see any of those break but when they get munched up, for example by a chairlift rack, they can take days to resume original shape. The rubbery later ones pop back immediately.


how'd you manage 1900 in nz. Drive to rotorua?

What thread are the bolts that hold on the fender?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> how'd you manage 1900 in nz. Drive to rotorua?
> 
> What thread are the bolts that hold on the fender?


One end of the south island to the other and back. Well worth it: A Typical Day - The Wairoa Gorge MTB Park, Nelson 




Bolts are M4 button-heads. I'm not sure of the length.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> One end of the south island to the other and back. Well worth it: A Typical Day - The Wairoa Gorge MTB Park, Nelson
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy hell, those trails look super fun!


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

funks said:


> Manitou needs to do something about the shitty mud guard on the Mezzer. Mine broke (top part of the plastic where it bolts up) not even riding, just from the wind while driving on the freeway to the ride.
> 
> Anybody of you guys something else? If I replaced it with another from manitou, pretty sure it'll just break again.


I use a mudhuuger. stock manitou one is far too small.


----------



## fuzz_muffin (Dec 24, 2017)

spo0n said:


> Manitou customer support is generally awesome
> 
> I got some Dominions in the mail to put on my Mezzer, can't wait


Where did you get the Dominions from? The lady wants to buy a set, e-mailed biken but no reply on the lead time.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

fuzz_muffin said:


> Where did you get the Dominions from? The lady wants to buy a set, e-mailed biken but no reply on the lead time.


Bike24

just buy 2 rears and shorten


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Does the bolt on mudhugger fit mezzer? 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fuzz_muffin said:


> Where did you get the Dominions from? The lady wants to buy a set, e-mailed biken but no reply on the lead time.


Biken is the other side of Shockcraft. We haven't got any emails that could be from you and we'd like to see why that didn't work. Give us a call. 03-976-7790.
A4's were're out of stock until late April. We have some A2's.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

I recieved my mezzer 3 days ago. It has the bleed ports, the new separated stickers and the new lowers. Model is 29 51 offset. Box says it is manufactured i. 17.07.2019. Probably the first gen damping, but with updated lowers. I hope it i all good. I will report how it performed compared to my former DVO onyx.


----------



## gillyske (Jun 20, 2019)

Just received the mezzer, haven't had a chance to ride but can't wait. Has bleed ports, does this mean I shouldn't get bushing issues? Anything I should know to aid in set up?


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

gillyske said:


> Just received the mezzer, haven't had a chance to ride but can't wait. Has bleed ports, does this mean I shouldn't get bushing issues? Anything I should know to aid in set up?


I pulled mine apart when i changed travel, made sure everything was greased. also check and grease ifp


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

gillyske said:


> Just received the mezzer, haven't had a chance to ride but can't wait. Has bleed ports, does this mean I shouldn't get bushing issues? Anything I should know to aid in set up?


Search for the tech thread I posted.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

spo0n said:


> I pulled mine apart when i changed travel, made sure everything was greased. also check and grease ifp


whoops, i meant IRT. Mine seemed pretty well greased from the factory though.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

Uchwmdr said:


> I recieved my mezzer 3 days ago. It has the bleed ports, the new separated stickers and the new lowers. Model is 29 51 offset. Box says it is manufactured i. 17.07.2019. Probably the first gen damping, but with updated lowers. I hope it i all good. I will report how it performed compared to my former DVO onyx.


What's the seperated sticker thing you write about? Mine has bleed ports but I don't know what damper tune it has (with or without the shim) and would like to not pull it apart before I need to do a full service. Is there a way to see if the damper tune if the newer or older, by looking at it from the outside?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

boellefisk said:


> What's the seperated sticker thing you write about? Mine has bleed ports but I don't know what damper tune it has (with or without the shim) and would like to not pull it apart before I need to do a full service. Is there a way to see if the damper tune if the newer or older, by looking at it from the outside?


Your box should have come with a build date. The MY 2021 forks have the revised rebound tune. There were no changes on the compression side.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Please tell me one thing:
Which setting from these three: LSC, HSC and rebound have the biggest impact on that feel when you get hand fatigue?
I think after that what I have tested that HSC has the biggest impact on that issue. And also you can not change this by removing shims or anything else. 
Hope, you help something here...


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Please tell me one thing:
> Which setting from these three: LSC, HSC and rebound have the biggest impact on that feel when you get hand fatigue?
> I think after that what I have tested that HSC has the biggest impact on that issue. And also you can not change this by removing shims or anything else.
> Hope, you help something here...


You change LSC when you change the HSC, so I'd say the HSC dial will have the biggest impact


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Please tell me one thing:
> Which setting from these three: LSC, HSC and rebound have the biggest impact on that feel when you get hand fatigue?
> I think after that what I have tested that HSC has the biggest impact on that issue. And also you can not change this by removing shims or anything else.
> Hope, you help something here...


Any of them could probably contribute to hand fatigue. But, hand fatigue is too general an observation to decide which knob to turn.

I would say run HSC, LSC and rebound wide open and see how that feels.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Any of them could probably contribute to hand fatigue. But, hand fatigue is too general an observation to decide which knob to turn.
> 
> I would say run HSC, LSC and rebound wide open and see how that feels.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I ride with them all open but when changing HSC to fully closed I fell like then it becomes more harsh.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> I ride with them all open but when changing HSC to fully closed I fell like then it becomes more harsh.


Yup, that is how compression damping works.

IMO you want the minimum effective dose of damping. More compression damping, especially high speed, equals more force into your hands.

Especially with the HBO, you can run faster compression damping for better grip and comfort. You want just enough to avoid the front wheel getting "tossed" off the top of a bump.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

Radecki said:


> I ride with them all open but when changing HSC to fully closed I fell like then it becomes more harsh.


too-slow rebound can be harsh too.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Radecki said:


> Please tell me one thing:
> Which setting from these three: LSC, HSC and rebound have the biggest impact on that feel when you get hand fatigue?
> I think after that what I have tested that HSC has the biggest impact on that issue. And also you can not change this by removing shims or anything else.
> Hope, you help something here...


Air pressure too can make it too harsh.


----------



## gillyske (Jun 20, 2019)

Radecki said:


> Please tell me one thing:
> Which setting from these three: LSC, HSC and rebound have the biggest impact on that feel when you get hand fatigue?
> I think after that what I have tested that HSC has the biggest impact on that issue. And also you can not change this by removing shims or anything else.
> Hope, you help something here...


Honestly hand fatigue is more related to rider fitness, type of grip, bar position and brake lever position than anything you feel through the fork. 
After copying the french handle bar/brake lever position and switching to ergon ge1's i never get hand fatigue anymore. Even during my 4 day back to back dh park holiday,


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

I tried a mezzer pro today for the first time. I have it in 160 travel 29 wheel 44 offset.
I am running close to what the calculator recommends.
I am 185 pounds IRT 57, Main 87, HSC 2 from full open, LSC 4 from full open, Rebound 3 from closed. (Chart recommends 6)
I started with rebound on 6 from closed following the chart settings recommendations but found this to be too fast. Then I used 5 and then 4. I dont feel a significant rebound damping until 2 but I just dont want to run it that closed so something might get damaged may be?
Running it at 3 sometimes I felt it pushing towards me on some jumps right after I pre load the jump.

Also I wanted to use a little more main chamber pressure to see if it helps on not diving too much on the initial travel but more pressure might convert in more rebound damping needed?

I hope somebody could provide some guide on this.
I like the fork btw, just would like to be able to ride it on the upper side of the travel more and still maintain good grip in corners and loose dirt 😁👍🏽


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

I’m not sure if your pressures were listed correctly, but main pressure should be lower than your IRT. Either way, it seems like you might be better off lowering your pressures a bit and seeing how that feels for you. It seems like you may be setting your pressures too high and trying to use LSC and rebound to do too much to counteract the impact that those pressures are having. Lowering the pressures will allow rebound and LSC to be better fine tuned. I’d also open HSC all the way.

Another option for you to try is to determine the suggested spring weight based on your weight. You can go to Dougal’s website where he’s put together a free spring rate calculator, you just put in your weight in kg, name, and email address and it will email you the suggested spring rate. Early on in this thread he posted some spring weights with main/IRT pressures to meet those spring weights:

(Main/IRT)
30 lb/in: 30/45 
35 lb/in: 35/55
40 lb/in: 40/80
45 lb/in: 50/90
50 lb/in: 60/100


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

gillyske said:


> Honestly hand fatigue is more related to rider fitness, type of grip, bar position and brake lever position than anything you feel through the fork.
> After copying the french handle bar/brake lever position and switching to ergon ge1's i never get hand fatigue anymore. Even during my 4 day back to back dh park holiday,


I am riding just rather small pressure like 25/30 psi Main and 45/60 psi IRT.
Use both grip Esi Chunky Extra and Revolution Pro.
I have some problems with muscle and thus I am looking to soften the maximum my ride.
I am asking for HSC or LSC because I can change shims in LSC but nothing in HSC, am I right?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gillyske said:


> Honestly hand fatigue is more related to rider fitness, type of grip, bar position and brake lever position than anything you feel through the fork.
> After copying the french handle bar/brake lever position and switching to ergon ge1's i never get hand fatigue anymore. Even during my 4 day back to back dh park holiday,


That would be true if you were comparing two similar forks and different cockpit setups.
But the wrong fork will literally buzz your hands numb on rocky trails. Even with best efforts at setup.

A mate has a Boxxer with Charger RC on a Glory. I stopped riding it until he let me tune the damper. Now it's a pleasure to ride.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Does Mezzer Expert having HBO? I got a nice deal on it and I'm trying to figure out if it worth adding additional 250USD for the pro or not.


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

Moosedriver said:


> I'm not sure if your pressures were listed correctly, but main pressure should be lower than your IRT. Either way, it seems like you might be better off lowering your pressures a bit and seeing how that feels for you. It seems like you may be setting your pressures too high and trying to use LSC and rebound to do too much to counteract the impact that those pressures are having. Lowering the pressures will allow rebound and LSC to be better fine tuned. I'd also open HSC all the way.
> 
> Another option for you to try is to determine the suggested spring weight based on your weight. You can go to Dougal's website where he's put together a free spring rate calculator, you just put in your weight in kg, name, and email address and it will email you the suggested spring rate. Early on in this thread he posted some spring weights with main/IRT pressures to meet those spring weights:
> 
> ...


Yes my mistake in writing. The IRT is always the mayor number.
I used the calculator listed in the other thread to find this numbers. Actually, the calculator for 185 pounds recommends IRT 91 and Main 61 and I am using a little bit lower than. 
Just wanted to know if anybody has a similar result with the rebound being so closed in order to feel the damping (2 clicks from full closed)


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Jeffhdz said:


> Yes my mistake in writing. The IRT is always the mayor number.
> I used the calculator listed in the other thread to find this numbers. Actually, the calculator for 185 pounds recommends IRT 91 and Main 61 and I am using a little bit lower than.
> Just wanted to know if anybody has a similar result with the rebound being so closed in order to feel the damping (2 clicks from full closed)


I think you are in the minority. User average is between 6 and 7 clicks out, on our spreadsheet.

I would ask what is making you feel like you need more rebound damping? From your description it sounds like you are bouncing on the fork and wanting to "feel" the damping. That wouldn't be a great approach in my opinion.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

Tomorrow I will try several runs on the same track.
May be I am just used to my last fork too much and need to adjust my riding.
I will start with recommended pressures from the calculator, rebound on 6 and LSC and HSC full open.
Thanks guys for your help.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> Air pressure too can make it too harsh.


Very true. I thought I'd try a bit more pressure on a fast and chunky trail. That beat the hell out of my hands and made control difficult. For the second run, I lowered the pressure back to the Dougal setting (I'm the same weight) and all was well.


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

funks said:


> Pretty sure the rest of the people who broke their mudgaurds also broke it on the top tab. My fork was dated 2020.
> 
> Had bolted on mud guards from synchros, and those thin plastic mud guards you attach with zip tie's and non ever broke.


Yep exact same failure mode here 2x. I reached out to Hayes - they are out of fenders for now but were willing to send one under warranty when available.

I ended up drilling 4 holes and putting two zip ties to hold it at the arch. Works like a charm until I can get a fresh one.


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

I recently added more air in the fork - it feels phenomenal. I might have been running too little air and too much rebound damping for a while. Super happy with the fork. It now feels better than my old RC2 at pretty much everything. Buddy with a Grip2 who is the same weight also complimented on how nice it rode.

180-185 lbs weight - 29er @ 160mm
IRT: 92
Main: 61
Rebound: 7
HSC: 2
LSC: 3

I add or remove 1 click of HSC depending on the trails and how much pizza I have had.

Currently 3D printing some travel spacers for 5mm increment so I can match front and rear. I should be able to test fit next week - happy to share the STEP file after I confirm good fit if anybody else is interested.

Next step is figuring out how to make the Bomber CR feel as good :-/. I googled around a bit but could not find a good link to help noobs play with the shim stack on that specific shock. Any pro tips? Seems the general concensus is more HSC needed vs the stock tune?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

az6669 said:


> I recently added more air in the fork - it feels phenomenal. I might have been running too little air and too much rebound damping for a while. Super happy with the fork. It now feels better than my old RC2 at pretty much everything. Buddy with a Grip2 who is the same weight also complimented on how nice it rode.
> 
> 180-185 lbs weight - 29er @ 160mm
> IRT: 92
> ...


Bomber CR has a ridiculously firm HSR stack. I've maxed out my dyno (1 ton) testing one). The base-valve is also heavily preloaded belleville washers so you need to do all your tuning on the main piston.


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

Lutsch said:


> At full extension and even a little in the travel I here a slight "clonk" and can feel it a little at the grips too, when I move it back and forward with pressed front break. Doing this with a hand on the lowers I can feel this "clonk". With fingers on the lowers and on the stanchions I cannot feel a clear relative movement between them.
> For me this does not feel right. Lowers are with bleed ports, but I am afraid for bushing play.


I'm in the same situation of you. Did you find out what it was? I am afraid for bushing play too..


----------



## az6669 (Dec 13, 2007)

tibowski said:


> I'm in the same situation of you. Did you find out what it was? I am afraid for bushing play too..


Couple options:

brake pads moving
headset slightly loose
loose bushings

Have you tried doing this test with the wheel turned at 90 degree - no brakes needed?


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

I tried everything and seems ok. the "clock" seems to me that happens when the last millimeter of the fork extend. I don't know how to explain better. It's not clear to me if that is caused by loose bushing or by something not perfectly working on the damper. I don't think It's normal for a Mezzer...


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

tibowski said:


> I tried everything and seems ok. the "clock" seems to me that happens when the last millimeter of the fork extend. I don't know how to explain better. It's not clear to me if that is caused by loose bushing or by something not perfectly working on the damper. I don't think It's normal for a Mezzer...


Have you adjusted your travel spacers?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

CCS86 said:


> Have you adjusted your travel spacers?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Never opened yet


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

tibowski said:


> Never opened yet


If you are running it at 180mm then it can't be what i experienced, but i also had a top out sound and it was a travel spacer that had come undone.


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

boellefisk said:


> If you are running it at 180mm then it can't be what i experienced, but i also had a top out sound and it was a travel spacer that had come undone.


Mine is 160mm from factory.


----------



## boellefisk (Nov 16, 2020)

tibowski said:


> Mine is 160mm from factory.


Might be worth taking a look then. It's also recommended to open it, just to make sure everything is oiled up and lubed up too.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

tibowski said:


> Mine is 160mm from factory.


It's MY21 right? I don't understand why there are two fork sizes...


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

it's my20. always can be set from 140-180


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

tibowski said:


> it's my20. always can be set from 140-180


It's new that they are offering it in 160mm option and not 180mm (out of the box I mean..)


----------



## tibowski (Jan 9, 2014)

ForMartha said:


> It's new that they are offering it in 160mm option and not 180mm (out of the box I mean..)


I don't know. Mine is 03/2020. It has the M5 holes so it must be Rev B i think but I don't see that on the Box. ?


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

Took a few videos in slo mo of the mezzer pro in action yesterday during track practice

Tried the rebound on 6 as suggested and HSC full open and LSC 2 from full open. It performed very good. Might try this week lowering pressures a bit to see how it changes in riding. So far the way it performed is a win for me.


----------



## jb0000 (Mar 30, 2021)

Hi all, I'd like to know if this level of scoring of the stanchions is normal on a new Mezzer that's been ridden for 2 weeks.

I found scratches like these all around both stanchions:









There are also 2 deeper scratches that seem more problematic, here's one:


----------



## attaboy (Apr 4, 2008)

Jeffhdz said:


> Took a few videos in slo mo of the mezzer pro in action yesterday during track practice
> 
> Tried the rebound on 6 as suggested and HSC full open and LSC 2 from full open. It performed very good. Might try this week lowering pressures a bit to see how it changes in riding. So far the way it performed is a win for me.


Cool vid! Makes me wonder tho about that lower part of your brake line. Seems to get fairly close to spokes when fork compresses.


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

attaboy said:


> Cool vid! Makes me wonder tho about that lower part of your brake line. Seems to get fairly close to spokes when fork compresses.


Yes, I had to cut a piece of tube and put it between the line and the plastic piece that holds the line to the fork so it does not slides anymore.


----------



## fuzz_muffin (Dec 24, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Biken is the other side of Shockcraft. We haven't got any emails that could be from you and we'd like to see why that didn't work. Give us a call. 03-976-7790.
> A4's were're out of stock until late April. We have some A2's.


Sorry mate, didn't mean to sling mud. 
The lady sent the email on the 25/2, her brakes after all. I wish I could justify a set for myself but my xt set still function well. Can discus via PM if you'd like more details.

Yep all good I think she'll get a set of A4s when they're in stock along with the dot fluid bleed kit.

Cheers for reaching out. 
/threadjack


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

I'm having hard time to pick a Mezzer version. Which one should I go with for rocky tarrain?

Is the Mezzer expert comperable to the pro if the IRT is added?


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I only have about a month on mine, but my thoughts... I'd get the Pro if you can swing it. I ride rocky terrain with only a few moderate drops and no real jumps and having the HBO is nice. I can set it up a little softer than I might otherwise, add a bit extra LSC, trust the HBO to do its job. Super controlled. I'm sure others have had success with differing set ups, but I think the flexibility is well worth it no matter what.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

kiotae said:


> I only have about a month on mine, but my thoughts... I'd get the Pro if you can swing it. I ride rocky terrain with only a few moderate drops and no real jumps and having the HBO is nice. I can set it up a little softer than I might otherwise, add a bit extra LSC, trust the HBO to do its job. Super controlled. I'm sure others have had success with differing set ups, but I think the flexibility is well worth it no matter what.


I'm trending in the same direction. What sort of IRT:Main ratio are you running? The average is around 1.5 and I think I'm at 1.4 currently but curious about how low you can go.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

I hadn't looked at averages so wasn't aware where I fell there. Just tuned by feel from suggested set up and noticed that at some point Dougal had mentioned lower pressures and more LSC for folks riding roots/rocks. I'm running 80/50 so 1.6 at 150mm for my 165lb-ish riding weight. I don't know my LSC clicks from closed, but from open I'm at 4. HSC open. Rebound not sure, but pretty open.

If I was going someplace with bigger drops or some jumps I might add a little IRT pressure, but probably not. The only place I've ever gone deep enough to (I think) hit the HBO is a, don't laugh, pretty quick 2.5 foot drop into a kinda banked turn. It's not big, but it always pushes my forks deep because of the combination of speed with a drop to something worse than flat and some braking in there as well.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

kiotae said:


> I only have about a month on mine, but my thoughts... I'd get the Pro if you can swing it. I ride rocky terrain with only a few moderate drops and no real jumps and having the HBO is nice. I can set it up a little softer than I might otherwise, add a bit extra LSC, trust the HBO to do its job. Super controlled. I'm sure others have had success with differing set ups, but I think the flexibility is well worth it no matter what.


I'm thinking the same.. in just having a bit of a hard time paying around 900 usd for a fork.

I'm owning a one year old RockShox Revelation and I hate it. It's like the harshest fork ever. I rode a Lyrik ultimate and it was buttery smooth. Same goes for the Mezzer pro.

The only downside is the weight for a none enduro rider.. but that's nothing compared to the outcome of running such a fork (Mezzer).


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

tibowski said:


> I'm in the same situation of you. Did you find out what it was? I am afraid for bushing play too..


No, but the knocking goes stronger. I was in short contact with Manitou and they recommend to send the fork in.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Lutsch said:


> No, but the knocking goes stronger. I was in short contact with Manitou and they recommend to send the fork in.


It's a long shot, but might be worth checking before sending it in. I got the same clunking noise at top out on mine after I did a lower leg service. It wasn't present immediately after the service, but occured after a ride or two. It turned out that the lock nuts had come loose, so probably I was sloppy with seating them properly after the service. I tightened them to the recommended 4 Nm and all good since.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

I’m running the expert replacing a (much hated) F36 Grip2, in a 27.5 170mm 37 offset config on my 2020 Stumpy Evo. I’m 170 lbs, formerly 180 lbs prior to riding out COVID since lockdown a year ago.

I went expert for the reasons noted above, not for price, but because I wanted the simpler setup (I have more than enough high maintenance things in my life and need to ride my bike) and figured I can upgrade incrementally if a) I’m not satisfied and b) those incremental parts are ever available.

After 3 rides, Initial impressions are how light the fork feels, it immediately climbs better and is far poppier. I’m still in the process of reducing PSI as seems the standard, and I’ve moved all the IVA tokens to “air”. I’ll probably add the IRT when it’s made of something other than unobtanium just for science project purposes, but might not if I stop thinking about it.

The initial goal of ditching the Fox for something that just works properly is achieved, and geez the stiffness is better for feeling this much lighter, and between sale and purchase I came out of pocket all of $200, not that this was my motivating factor, but it would be for a lot of people.

Only major question is will the simple clicks satisfy and obviously how it performs over time. I totally get that I could have just done the pro + spreadsheet, but that’s not much of an experiment on less being more, and it’s always good when those experiments prove out in practice.

I have a general suspension design guideline that 90% of the time and money is spent chasing the last 5% of turning performance, and it’s usually just as well to spend that money changing the platform. Will report back.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

Oh and here's a couple of pics. Sure is good looking.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Thanks for all the inputs.
But again, what's the difference between the expert and the pro when you've dialed everythig?

The only good thing I can think about is the ease of maintenance. E.g. - having a simple fork that can be serviced easily without the need of bleed and/or bladder awareness (rapture, leak etc.)

Again,
Thanks!


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Nay said:


> View attachment 1923999


That reminds me that I need to get the new stealth decals to replace the beer bottle decals that came on mine.


----------



## spth7ch (Apr 2, 2021)

Nay said:


> I'm running the expert replacing a (much hated) F36 Grip2, in a 27.5 170mm 37 offset config on my 2020 Stumpy Evo. I'm 170 lbs, formerly 180 lbs prior to riding out COVID since lockdown a year ago.
> 
> I went expert for the reasons noted above, not for price, but because I wanted the simpler setup (I have more than enough high maintenance things in my life and need to ride my bike) and figured I can upgrade incrementally if a) I'm not satisfied and b) those incremental parts are ever available.
> 
> ...


Hello,

Interesting feedback.
You're one step further than I (my Mezzer Expert is received but not already assembled as the frame is not yet here).
Could you please let me know if you've been provided some set-up guide ?
For me, none was included with the fork and I can't find any on support section from Hayes performance website.

Thanks

Best regards,


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

How can I fix the stanchios getting sucked into the lowers like 5mm may be 10mm sometimes. I pulled it up with hands and it goes suctioned again.
May be has something to do with the main chamber not filling the positive and negative properly?
Thanks for your help. 😁👍🏽👍🏽


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Jeffhdz said:


> How can I fix the stanchios getting sucked into the lowers like 5mm may be 10mm sometimes. I pulled it up with hands and it goes suctioned again.
> May be has something to do with the main chamber not filling the positive and negative properly?
> Thanks for your help. 😁👍🏽👍🏽


This was discussed a while back, attach the pump on the bottom air chamber and make sure it's fully threaded in (so that the negative chamber is open as well). After doing that, pull the lower leg all the way to full extension and pump it to the desired pressure. Remove the pump and it won't "suck up" anymore.


----------



## acedeuce802 (Jun 30, 2017)

Jeffhdz said:


> How can I fix the stanchios getting sucked into the lowers like 5mm may be 10mm sometimes. I pulled it up with hands and it goes suctioned again.
> May be has something to do with the main chamber not filling the positive and negative properly?
> Thanks for your help. 😁👍🏽👍🏽


The chambers equalize when the pump is attached. Reattach the shock pump, then pull the stanchions up, and refill the few psi lost from reattaching the pump, then detach while pulling up.


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Can anyone compare the mezzer expert to a lyrik? Tossing around the idea of replacing my lyrik with the new expert but want some real world feedback first. I wish someone offered demos of forks! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jeffhdz (Mar 25, 2021)

Exellent, I thought it was something related to that topic just wanted your wisdom and guide 😁👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

Another thing, do you know when can I expect new Mezzers pro 29 back in stock, I want to change all my bikes to this beast now.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

socalrider77 said:


> Can anyone compare the mezzer expert to a lyrik? Tossing around the idea of replacing my lyrik with the new expert but want some real world feedback first. I wish someone offered demos of forks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had both and MUCH prefer the Mezzer. That said, I have the expert and immediately put the IRT in so I never rode it with the Stock air spring. I'm well below the recommended pressures, but find it rides much higher with the same amount of small bump compliance. I also find it much poppier, and you can really notice a difference in the 6 compression settings (I run it in position three for my local, rocky and rutty east coast trails). I really believe the immediate upgrade to the IRT for $50 is a no brainer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> I've had both and MUCH prefer the Mezzer. That said, I have the expert and immediately put the IRT in so I never rode it with the Stock air spring. I'm well below the recommended pressures, but find it rides much higher with the same amount of small bump compliance. I also find it much poppier, and you can really notice a difference in the 6 compression settings (I run it in position three for my local, rocky and rutty east coast trails). I really believe the immediate upgrade to the IRT for $50 is a no brainer.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you used to ride the Lyrik Ultimate?


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

johnsogr said:


> I've had both and MUCH prefer the Mezzer. That said, I have the expert and immediately put the IRT in so I never rode it with the Stock air spring. I'm well below the recommended pressures, but find it rides much higher with the same amount of small bump compliance. I also find it much poppier, and you can really notice a difference in the 6 compression settings (I run it in position three for my local, rocky and rutty east coast trails). I really believe the immediate upgrade to the IRT for $50 is a no brainer.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! Now to see if I can sell my lyrik...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

ForMartha said:


> Did you used to ride the Lyrik Ultimate?


Yes Ultimate RC2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> Yes Ultimate RC2
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So with the IRT upgrade, you are almost 200usd less then the Pro. Why not taking it? I'm just trying to justify the 200 usd 

Cheers,
Mor


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I honestly didn’t want all that adjustment, would frustrate me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dragoontwo (Dec 2, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> So with the IRT upgrade, you are almost 200usd less then the Pro. Why not taking it? I'm just trying to justify the 200 usd
> 
> Cheers,
> Mor


It depends on if you want the MC² damper or not.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

dragoontwo said:


> It depends on if you want the MC² damper or not.


I'm not sure what's the extra benefit of having it as opposed to the VTT-6P. I'd say it otherwise, I'm into a 140mm fork and the Mattoc would have been great for me, The problem is that there are no available models for a decent price (the MSRP for the Mattoc Pro is very high) so the Mezzer was an option I was thinking about. Now looking for the additional 200 USD, I'm not sure if it worth it or not.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> So with the IRT upgrade, you are almost 200usd less then the Pro. Why not taking it? I'm just trying to justify the 200 usd
> 
> Cheers,
> Mor


Many have gotten the pro for 750 - 800 USD

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> I honestly didn't want all that adjustment, would frustrate me
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Run the HSC wide open, and maybe a few clicks of LSC. Works beautifully. What is frustrating about that?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I agree, I’m sure I could figure it out, but just wasn’t feeling it, and I got the Expert for $650. Perhaps I’ll upgrade in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

johnsogr said:


> I agree, I'm sure I could figure it out, but just wasn't feeling it, and I got the Expert for $650. Perhaps I'll upgrade in the future.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where'd you find the expert for $650?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Dirt Merchant back in February


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I think the Mezzer Pro will never make it on pre-built bikes as it's just too complicated to set up for the average rider. There would be constant complaints about it being sucked down and not working right.
The expert version was a good move by Manitou and with limited bike parts availability I would hope to see that product on several mid-tier builds.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## gillyske (Jun 20, 2019)

Suns_PSD said:


> I think the Mezzer Pro will never make it on pre-built bikes


Vitus Sommet 29 VR

already happened. 
Companies don't do it because of cost.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

gillyske said:


> Vitus Sommet 29 VR
> 
> already happened.
> Companies don't do it because of cost.


That bike is one heck of a deal.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

gillyske said:


> Vitus Sommet 29 VR
> 
> already happened.
> Companies don't do it because of cost.


Same company that imports the fork sells the bike. Not a surprise they have the mezzer on the bike


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I found out my phone can do higher frame rate videos. Here's my Mezzer in action:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CNO_aTMsVKW/


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Dougal said:


> I found out my phone can do higher frame rate videos. Here's my Mezzer in action:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CNO_aTMsVKW/


What Knolly is that? I can't make it out in the video. Love my Fugitive but don't see many other folks on them.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kiotae said:


> What Knolly is that? I can't make it out in the video. Love my Fugitive but don't see many other folks on them.


It's the new Warden but has Delirium shock stroke (65mm) for about 170mm travel. It's heavy but I'm loving it. Check out the 3x11 drivetrain!


----------



## noobshredur (Apr 25, 2019)

Off the top stiction on Mezzer pro.

I did a lower leg service on my Mezzer. It has about 25 hr ride time on it and the 2nd time taking it apart. 

I also added 10mm of travel from 160mm to 170mm.

Head angle is about on low 63 degress on a Mullet MegaSmash.

I did not have any noticeable stiction when I first got it and it was on 160mm even when its been sitting for a while.

Apart from travel change, I use supergliss 100k (20cc each leg) this time for the bath oil and mixed slickoleum+supergliss 100k on the sliding bits.

There is now noticeable stiction off the top and requires about more or less 5 lbs of force to break it loose.

It has been on a warmer side here whenever I ride about 60-70F.

It feels less plush now on small bumps even with reduced pressure on Main and IRT. 5 psi less.

Fork still staying high on its travel and have good midstroke support but could not reach the last 20% of travel on the same hits where I usually bottom out.

Did I messed something up?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

noobshredur said:


> Off the top stiction on Mezzer pro.
> 
> I did a lower leg service on my Mezzer. It has about 25 hr ride time on it and the 2nd time taking it apart.
> 
> ...


It's most likely the air-spring main quad-ring. You can downsize it which will help.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

noobshredur said:


> Off the top stiction on Mezzer pro.
> 
> I did a lower leg service on my Mezzer. It has about 25 hr ride time on it and the 2nd time taking it apart.
> 
> ...


Subscribed.

I just went from 150 - 170 and noticed exactly same thing. I dropped the air significantly hoping that plushness comes back, but feels same. There is a kink for lack of better words that you need to push thru on initial compress then that goes away until it sits for a while. Other than that same symptoms. I am running the Motorex 5w40.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

overtightened sealhead?


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

Calling Dougal for this one. Myself and riding buddies of mine all have Mezzers.

*Myself* 1x Mezzer Pro
1x Mezzer Pro LE
*Buddy 1 *
1x Mezzer Pro
1x Mezzer Pro LE
*Buddy 2*
1x Mezzer Pro

We all run Motorex 2.5wt in them. Myself and Buddy 1 are almost the same weight 210lb.

In my LE I need to run 73/103psi to achieve a supportive balanced ride while on his Pros he only needs to run 58/90psi for the same riding. Is this to do with a firmer tune? There is also what feels like significantly less stiction on both pairs of LE's compared to the standard Pro's.

Also both Buddy 1 & 2 have had CSU's replaced on their Pro's. One can only assume these forks were from the same batch.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

wake jake said:


> Calling Dougal for this one. Myself and riding buddies of mine all have Mezzers.
> 
> *Myself* 1x Mezzer Pro
> 1x Mezzer Pro LE
> ...


You really made this hard by swapping around the pressure readings. 103//73 isn't that far from 90/58psi. A decent change in bike geometry or riding position can do that.
Compression damping is the same. Rebound damping changed, MY21 is faster/lighter rebound damping.

I have also noticed less breakaway stiction on my LE but I haven't tracked down where it is different. I know they changed from quad-rings to o-rings on the damper shaft but I don't know if that is the only difference.

I pressed apart a scratched Mezzer CSU for curiousities sake and they're the tightest stanchion fits I've found since the Manitou Travis.


----------



## kiotae (Jan 1, 2018)

Dougal said:


> It's the new Warden but has Delirium shock stroke (65mm) for about 170mm travel. It's heavy but I'm loving it. Check out the 3x11 drivetrain!


Nice. They're definitely on the heavy side but mine was only about a month old when it took a rock strike that would of ended a carbon frame.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

Dougal said:


> You really made this hard by swapping around the pressure readings. 103//73 isn't that far from 90/58psi. A decent change in bike geometry or riding position can do that.
> Compression damping is the same. Rebound damping changed, MY21 is faster/lighter rebound damping.
> 
> I have also noticed less breakaway stiction on my LE but I haven't tracked down where it is different. I know they changed from quad-rings to o-rings on the damper shaft but I don't know if that is the only difference.
> ...


Apologies for the pressure swap order.

I have tried my LE pressures (103/73) in the MY20 and they were very firm to the point of being difficult to compress a decent amount. Just curious as to what the difference is between them.

Good to know that change. The noticeably less breakaway stiction is a nice improvement.

The creaking wasn't Fox 38 bad but it was enough to cause annoyance while riding. Both bike have HA's of 62.5 and 64 which doesn't help. Nevertheless they have been warrantied and I'm issue free still.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

wake jake said:


> Apologies for the pressure swap order.
> 
> I have tried my LE pressures (103/73) in the MY20 and they were very firm to the point of being difficult to compress a decent amount. Just curious as to what the difference is between them.
> 
> ...


Sounds kinda like negative chamber isn't filling properly. Check the pumps are screwed all the way on and test the connection by pushing the fork all the way down with the pump on and seeing if it stays there.
The internals are all the same with the LE. I'm running the same pressures with the same result from my previous black Pro to my silver LE.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

noobshredur said:


> Off the top stiction on Mezzer pro.
> 
> I did a lower leg service on my Mezzer. It has about 25 hr ride time on it and the 2nd time taking it apart.
> 
> ...


I had same thing, notch at top of travel, after service.

Fixed it by loosening air spring seal head.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

croakies said:


> I had same thing, notch at top of travel, after service.
> 
> Fixed it by loosening air spring seal head.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Can you explain how you did that?


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

springs said:


> Can you explain how you did that?


You know how the sealhead screws into the stanchion with a cassette tool instead of RS/fox style circlip? well if that is overtightened it will expand the OD of the stanchion juuust enough to make it feel tighter in the bushing


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

spth7ch said:


> Hello,
> 
> Interesting feedback.
> You're one step further than I (my Mezzer Expert is received but not already assembled as the frame is not yet here).
> ...


I didn't receive anything, either. For the IVA, I think just treat it like traditional spacers, and then experiment with relatively low air pressures and rebound.

I have a local trail called Nachos that is a perfect time trail as it has chunky desert tech in weird configs, some brief flat connectors, and then erosion control drops into turns where time is really made. I just PR'd on two straight runs a couple days ago and the bike feels scary fast on slightly smoother trails like in the pic below. I'm not even messing with VVT yet leaving it open.










This is what I was looking for - a base performance setup that works. At 170mm, I'm not punching through the travel with no IVA spacers, PSI ~45, and VVT open and it's pretty supple, way better than I could ever get the F36 Grip2 and a lot stiffer.

I'm not feeling the need to do much besides manage PSI right now, and that's where my general barometer sits because I don't want a fiddly system. But those barometers are very personal. I ignore sag entirely, because it is a trailing measurement for me. I don't like arbitrary variables that then have to be "tuned out". The expert seems very on point here at initial impressions.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

All of the setup recommendations for the Mezzer Expert are in the “Mezzer Pro Expert Service Guide” in their service portal on Hayes.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

ForMartha said:


> But again, what's the difference between the expert and the pro when you've dialed everythig?


Well that's the question. Maybe nothing and the expert is easier to keep where you want it. Maybe not.

I find the forks with a ton of clicks need a ton of clicks. My ride right after my first post was so on this point. Poor guy at the top of a climb fiddling with his fork with shock wiz, frustrated as hell. We chatted for a minute, I tell him that's why I got a Mezzer Expert, he says "Maybe I should just ride my bike".

I say "yup", drop my descent, climb back up, and he's putting his stuff away clearly not in high vibes. People spend an awful lot of money frustrating themselves. Not saying the Pro is like this, I think the Mezzer is just better out of the box, but it's exactly the point of the expert.

Grip2 v. Grip? Grip.
My son bought the mid level Zeb to avoid all the endless adjusting. He loves it.










It's rarely the cost of the shock that matters. It's the cost of constantly having to think about it. If that resonates, get the expert. If it doesn't, then you'll still be thinking about it all the time for less money.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

spo0n said:


> You know how the sealhead screws into the stanchion with a cassette tool instead of RS/fox style circlip? well if that is overtightened it will expand the OD of the stanchion juuust enough to make it feel tighter in the bushing


How much are you backing off recommended torque?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

spo0n said:


> You know how the sealhead screws into the stanchion with a cassette tool instead of RS/fox style circlip? well if that is overtightened it will expand the OD of the stanchion juuust enough to make it feel tighter in the bushing


Ah ok. It's a pretty light torque on that. From the manual 20-25 in-lb [2.3-2.8 Nm]


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Nay said:


> Well that's the question. Maybe nothing and the expert is easier to keep where you want it. Maybe not.
> 
> I find the forks with a ton of clicks need a ton of clicks. My ride right after my first post was so on this point. Poor guy at the top of a climb fiddling with his fork with shock wiz, frustrated as hell. We chatted for a minute, I tell him that's why I got a Mezzer Expert, he says "Maybe I should just ride my bike".
> 
> ...


You nailed it.
Got the Expert! Super excited, it will take some time until it will arrive. I will order the IRT going forward.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Now that some of the good trails have melted out (mostly), I finally got the Mezzer on some decent chunk. It was quite awesome and stood up well in the steeps while soaking up the bomb holes. It seems a bit better in the steep chunk than the previous Ribbon coil and much better on very high speed chatter. I've been having a bit of wrist trouble lately and there was no soreness after the ride.


----------



## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

If the only difference in 2 Mezzers forks is travel (160 vs 140) and air pressures of course, would you use more rebound or less rebound for the shorter travel fork? My first instinct was faster rebound so that it returns to position faster since it has less travel. But then I thought shorter travel has higher air pressure so it should be slower. Or do they just cancel out? Maybe Im over thinking it.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

evan9r said:


> If the only difference in 2 Mezzers forks is travel (160 vs 140) and air pressures of course, would you use more rebound or less rebound for the shorter travel fork? My first instinct was faster rebound so that it returns to position faster since it has less travel. But then I thought shorter travel has higher air pressure so it should be slower. Or do they just cancel out? Maybe Im over thinking it.


I don't think the rebound setting has much to do with travel. You should set it based on your weight, spring pressure, and trail conditions.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

Developed a creak on my LE this week riding in Pisgah. Much rougher stuff then usual. Noticed on the website that there was no availability. Anyone comment on the turnaround time to warranty?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Headoc said:


> Developed a creak on my LE this week riding in Pisgah. Much rougher stuff then usual. Noticed on the website that there was no availability. Anyone comment on the turnaround time to warranty?


Usually processed and shipped within a week in my experience but if no stock that's another story.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Heya,
Anything needs to be done prior ride on the Mezzer Expert? apart from resizing it to my liking.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> Heya,
> Anything needs to be done prior ride on the Mezzer Expert? apart from resizing it to my liking.


if you don't have a torque wrench capable of low values that works in reverse, I'd get one now, I use the older beam style.
From memory there is a suggested IVA starting setting per travel setting, it's in the mezzer service document on Hayes manitou, it's likely there would be a setup sheet in the box also.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ForMartha said:


> Heya,
> Anything needs to be done prior ride on the Mezzer Expert? apart from resizing it to my liking.


A good stiff drink.

A nice long climb.

Brake check at the top.

Let it rip.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

you guys are checking your brakes and not just sending it down with contaminated pads?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

spo0n said:


> you guys are checking your brakes and not just sending it down with contaminated pads?


Well, sometimes I do. Mostly I send and pray.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

cashews said:


> if you don't have a torque wrench capable of low values that works in reverse, I'd get one now, I use the older beam style.
> From memory there is a suggested IVA starting setting per travel setting, it's in the mezzer service document on Hayes manitou, it's likely there would be a setup sheet in the box also.


Dou you have any link for such a torque wrench? A budget friendly option..


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

ForMartha said:


> Dou you have any link for such a torque wrench? A budget friendly option..


I've been using this since last year. Recommended. I like it better than the old Park beam style one I've had forever. Remember to store it at the lowest setting.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

FWIW, you can pick up a 1/4" digital torque wrench for about $100.

After using a digital wrench, you may find it hard to go back to a mechanical. The digital tends to get the fastener closer to the targeted torque as you'll literally see the torque value reach the target value and then everything relaxes some and the fastener turns another 20-30* while sitting at that same torque. A mechanical would have clicked immediately and ended up looser. You can't just go back and tighten it again as static friction will be higher once the fastener stops moving.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> I've been using this since last year. Recommended. I like it better than the old Park beam style one I've had forever. Remember to store it at the lowest setting.


Thanks! have you tested it's accuracy?



mike156 said:


> FWIW, you can pick up a 1/4" digital torque wrench for about $100.
> 
> After using a digital wrench, you may find it hard to go back to a mechanical. The digital tends to get the fastener closer to the targeted torque as you'll literally see the torque value reach the target value and then everything relaxes some and the fastener turns another 20-30* while sitting at that same torque. A mechanical would have clicked immediately and ended up looser. You can't just go back and tighten it again as static friction will be higher once the fastener stops moving.


I'll try to source one on a more budget friendly option , and yes. I agree, it tends to be much more accurate AFAIK.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

ForMartha said:


> Thanks! have you tested it's accuracy?


No. That would require some calibrated reference. I guess I could test it against my old Park and my buddy's digital Snap-on (that costs the same as a low-end bike) to see if they agree though.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

ForMartha said:


> Thanks! have you tested it's accuracy?
> .


I test both my torque wrenches once a year to confirm they are in the ballpark -


GiddyHitch said:


> No. That would require some calibrated reference. I guess I could test it against my old Park and my buddy's digital Snap-on (that costs the same as a low-end bike) to see if they agree though.


Actually testing the accuracy of a torque wrench is pretty straight forward if you have a vice, a known weight (or a hanging scale) and a tape measure. Several vids on you tube show how to do it.

I check mine every few years - just to confirm they are in the correct ballpark.

I have not done anything to re-calibrate them though - if I know it reads a few pounds high or low just take that into account.


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Maybe I missed it, but what’s the torque wrench for on a new fork? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

socalrider77 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but what's the torque wrench for on a new fork?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They were talking about opening up the new fork - and re-assembly a torque wrench can be used.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

socalrider77 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but what's the torque wrench for on a new fork?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


edit: beat me too it but I'll add,
For travel change, the air leg end cap & casting footbolts are torque sensitive, .i.e things can go snap or expand if you go too tight.


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Makes sense! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

006_007 said:


> I test both my torque wrenches once a year to confirm they are in the ballpark -
> 
> Actually testing the accuracy of a torque wrench is pretty straight forward if you have a vice, a known weight (or a hanging scale) and a tape measure. Several vids on you tube show how to do it.
> 
> ...


What if the gravity is different where you live?


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

006_007 said:


> Actually testing the accuracy of a torque wrench is pretty straight forward if you have a vice, a known weight (or a hanging scale) and a tape measure. Several vids on you tube show how to do it.


Still have to verify your weight on a calibrated scale or calibrate your hanging scale. 🤪


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

By the way,
There is a requirement to have a two sided torque wrench right? Why?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> By the way,
> There is a requirement to have a two sided torque wrench right? Why?


Not 2 sided just needs the ability to measure torque "i.e. click" on left & right hand threads. Beam style have scale in both directions.
If you have crows foot spanner heads you can torque up the lowers nuts normally by holding the damper shaft with a hex key & air shaft with socket & torque the nuts.(clockwise)
look up youtube for the correct way to use a torque wrench using a crows foot.
if you don't have crows foot spanner heads you need to hold the nuts with a spanner & turn the shafts left to tighten to torque.(anti clockwise)


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

wake jake said:


> Calling Dougal for this one. Myself and riding buddies of mine all have Mezzers.
> 
> *Myself* 1x Mezzer Pro
> 1x Mezzer Pro LE
> ...


Are you running the Motorex 2.5wt in the lowers or damper? 
I always thought the 2.5 was more for the damper and the 5w40 & Supergliss for the lowers..?


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Has anyone tried modeling a 3D printable fender for the Mezzer? I know that the original one breaks quickly.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ForMartha said:


> Has anyone tried modeling a 3D printable fender for the Mezzer? I know that the original one breaks quickly.


I 3d print a lot of stuff and wouldn't bother trying the fender. I don't see how it could survive.

My original fender is going strong.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Hello,

I was servicing my Mezzer last week and everything was going fine until I put the lowers back in place and tried to tighten the locknut on the damper side (at the end of the procedure). Because of a defective torque wrench (my bad, I trusted way too much such a cheap tool...) I ended up over-tightening said lock nut and it eventually broke...
I contacted last Thursday night the customer service of my area and they told me they're gonna get back to me as soon as they know which part(s) I have to replace. I still haven't had any reply from them and I'm starting to get scared not to have my fork fixed anytime soon. Would some of you happen to know more about what needs to be replaced and if it is available somewhere online ?

Many thanks in advance !


----------



## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

TraxFactory said:


> Are you running the Motorex 2.5wt in the lowers or damper?
> I always thought the 2.5 was more for the damper and the 5w40 & Supergliss for the lowers..?


Curious here as well. Are folks running 2.5 in the damper? I'd like to try this to lighten things up.

Thanks


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

gui21st said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was servicing my Mezzer last week and everything was going fine until I put the lowers back in place and tried to tighten the locknut on the damper side (at the end of the procedure). Because of a defective torque wrench (my bad, I trusted way too much such a cheap tool...) I ended up over-tightening said lock nut and it eventually broke...
> I contacted last Thursday night the customer service of my area and they told me they're gonna get back to me as soon as they know which part(s) I have to replace. I still haven't had any reply from them and I'm starting to get scared not to have my fork fixed anytime soon. Would some of you happen to know more about what needs to be replaced and if it is available somewhere online ?
> ...


Did you tighten the actual nut (clock wise) or hold the nut in place and tighten the center bolt (counter clockwise)? 
If you tighten the actual nut it could be your striped that or just part of the initial threads and you may have more good threads lower.
You need to disassemble and see what got stripped and assess the damage.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

gui21st said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was servicing my Mezzer last week and everything was going fine until I put the lowers back in place and tried to tighten the locknut on the damper side (at the end of the procedure). Because of a defective torque wrench (my bad, I trusted way too much such a cheap tool...) I ended up over-tightening said lock nut and it eventually broke...
> I contacted last Thursday night the customer service of my area and they told me they're gonna get back to me as soon as they know which part(s) I have to replace. I still haven't had any reply from them and I'm starting to get scared not to have my fork fixed anytime soon. Would some of you happen to know more about what needs to be replaced and if it is available somewhere online ?
> ...


You need this part: 141-36713-K034
It should be cheap and a 10min job to replace. Just grab the shaft and unwind the damadged part.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

TraxFactory said:


> Did you tighten the actual nut (clock wise) or hold the nut in place and tighten the center bolt (counter clockwise)?
> If you tighten the actual nut it could be your striped that or just part of the initial threads and you may have more good threads lower.
> You need to disassemble and see what got stripped and assess the damage.


Thank you for your reply. I thought of that but quickly realized that the threaded part broke at half distance, so that unfortunately won't be an option.


lukam said:


> You need this part: 141-36713-K034
> It should be cheap and a 10min job to replace. Just grab the shaft and unwind the damadged part.


Yep that's the one thank you ! I got the confirmation meanwhile from the manitou customer service. It should be with me in 12 days + shipping time. I was frankly relieved to hear that...


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

gui21st said:


> Thank you for your reply. I thought of that but quickly realized that the threaded part broke at half distance, so that unfortunately won't be an option.
> 
> Yep that's the one thank you ! I got the confirmation meanwhile from the manitou customer service. It should be with me in 12 days + shipping time. I was frankly relieved to hear that...


The irony that in post #3363 it was questioned what the torque wrench is needed for (and the importance of periodically checking how accurate it is)

Glad manitou is getting you sorted out.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

TraxFactory said:


> Did you tighten the actual nut (clock wise) or hold the nut in place and tighten the center bolt (counter clockwise)?
> If you tighten the actual nut it could be your striped that or just part of the initial threads and you may have more good threads lower.
> You need to disassemble and see what got stripped and assess the damage.


Somewhat off topic - but does anyone know of a low-range reversible torque wrench? I have low-range torque wrench from Syntace (made by Wera) but it is RH only. I would buy a similar quality tool but cannot find one. FWIW, I am in Europe.

PS my higher range torque wrench has a handy "flip" socket drive so that one is reversible but it only goes down to 10 Nm.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Paul in CH said:


> Somewhat off topic - but does anyone know of a low-range reversible torque wrench? I have low-range torque wrench from Syntace (made by Wera) but it is RH only. I would buy a similar quality tool but cannot find one. FWIW, I am in Europe.
> 
> PS my higher range torque wrench has a handy "flip" socket drive so that one is reversible but it only goes down to 10 Nm.


I use a dial type, SnapOn Torqometer, the dial makes work very fast.

This has excellent ratings, not sure of availability in your area:


https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Instruments-PRED2F150HM-Dial-Type-Pointer/dp/B005EB9O9S/ref=asc_df_B005EB9O9S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735728871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13086607539393403591&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031999&hvtargid=pla-495047786377&psc=1


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

006_007 said:


> The irony that in post #3363 it was questioned what the torque wrench is needed for (and the importance of periodically checking how accurate it is)
> 
> Glad manitou is getting you sorted out.


Well yes, I didn't want to put a lot of money in a tool I use once every blue moon but I'm highly regretting that decision now.
Anyway, many thanks to Manitou's customer service as I expected a lot more struggle to have my fork fixed. Also gotta say that the Mezzer's service procedure is well detailed and pretty straightforward, so good job with that too.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

"1/4" digital torque wrench" on Amazon brings up several for ~$100 that go down under 5nm.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Not digital, just a clicker, but this one has worked well for me and goes very low in both directions.
Tekton dual direction 1/4" torque wrench.


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Digital is kind of overkill for a fork. Clickers are great for this.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

They also have 1/4” beam types for less than $30, which are more than accurate enough for this use, stems, and other bike parts.


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

spo0n said:


> You know how the sealhead screws into the stanchion with a cassette tool instead of RS/fox style circlip? well if that is overtightened it will expand the OD of the stanchion juuust enough to make it feel tighter in the bushing


I had the notch as well after travel change and lost the plushness, so I pulled it apart, switched to Supergliss100k, re-lubed shaft and seal, drenched foam rings etc.
Feels much better on the shop floor hoping were back to normal...

I measured the stanchion after torqueing seal head to 20in lbs and it was dead nuts 37mm...Impressed my calipers were that accurate or just lucky number 37.

I injected 15cc in each leg and really stuffed the tube up there. I think last time I just got it to the end tip of the lowers and looks like the chamber in the bottom could really inhibit oil from initially splashing around. Obviously once it sits all drains to bottom. Any merit on that?


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

006_007 said:


> The irony that in post #3363 it was questioned what the torque wrench is needed for (and the importance of periodically checking how accurate it is)
> 
> Glad manitou is getting you sorted out.


And also good instructions.

I love DVO but I snapped my foot bolt and had to use a torx bit hammered into it to remove it.

All because the manual actual has different torque specs in two different places


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

Have my Mezzer Pro LE on the way for a new Banshee Prime build. First task will be to change travel down to 150mm. Just getting tools together (as I live in a small town with not many options) - the 8mm socket to torque the air spring footnut - what OD does it need to be fit the nut?

I also haven't had any luck finding a 37mm seal driver (for service down the track) - any tips to get one of those?


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

I would like to get the upgrade IRT kit for Mezzer Expert.
Do I need to replace the air spring or just add the IRT adapter? (This one: Manitou Mezzer Pro IRT Kit | Fork Accessories Shop)


----------



## rccp (Aug 17, 2009)

benno_r said:


> Have my Mezzer Pro LE on the way for a new Banshee Prime build. First task will be to change travel down to 150mm. Just getting tools together (as I live in a small town with not many options) - the 8mm socket to torque the air spring footnut - what OD does it need to be fit the nut?
> 
> I also haven't had any luck finding a 37mm seal driver (for service down the track) - any tips to get one of those?


I just bought an 8mm socket and slowly thinned it down on the bench grinder, works great.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

benno_r said:


> Have my Mezzer Pro LE on the way for a new Banshee Prime build. First task will be to change travel down to 150mm. Just getting tools together (as I live in a small town with not many options) - the 8mm socket to torque the air spring footnut - what OD does it need to be fit the nut?
> 
> I also haven't had any luck finding a 37mm seal driver (for service down the track) - any tips to get one of those?


Manitou sells a thinwall 8mm or as suggestested, you can turn one down. I have done it by mounting one on a drill bit adaptor and mounting it on my drillpress and using it like a lathe. You could do the same with a handrill and vice. Slow but it works. Start with a 6 point socket, not 12.

For the seal press, I contacted one of the sellers of the CNC presses on Pinkinbike. He said later this year. It seems like there is a market for someone with a 3d printer and some knowledge of how to design.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Generally you can locate a piece of PVC pipe at your local hardware store that works as a perfectly sized seal driver. 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mezzer doesn't need a thin wall socket.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

CCS86 said:


> Mezzer doesn't need a thin wall socket.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I've seen this posted many times as well but always use a normal 8mm socket no problema...


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

ForMartha said:


> I would like to get the upgrade IRT kit for Mezzer Expert.
> Do I need to replace the air spring or just add the IRT adapter? (This one: Manitou Mezzer Pro IRT Kit | Fork Accessories Shop)


Just the IRT part, air spring is the same.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

CCS86 said:


> Mezzer doesn't need a thin wall socket.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk





TraxFactory said:


> I've seen this posted many times as well but always use a normal 8mm socket no problema...


Thank you very much, makes my life much easier.


----------



## Paul in CH (Dec 26, 2020)

TraxFactory said:


> I use a dial type, SnapOn Torqometer, the dial makes work very fast.
> 
> This has excellent ratings, not sure of availability in your area:
> 
> ...


Sadly - not available. Ditto for the other suggestions. I did search on amazon.de but am struggling to find a dual direction torque wrench!


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

Velodonata said:


> Not digital, just a clicker, but this one has worked well for me and goes very low in both directions.
> Tekton dual direction 1/4" torque wrench.


Amazon Australia had these in stock, mine was delivered today. Looks great.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Manitou have a 34 & 37mm seal press. I stumbled across the part number by accident and ordered one. I'll post it up when they arrive.


----------



## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

Paul in CH said:


> Sadly - not available. Ditto for the other suggestions. I did search on amazon.de but am struggling to find a dual direction torque wrench!


I have a small Topeak Digital torque wrench that has worked well for me for the past two years.
It is dual direction. I believe the range is 1 - 20Nm.
I have seen the price for it vary quite a bit online.was able to get it a couple years ago for around $120usd using some online coupons.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

The mezzer I've been running has developed cracking / creaking sounds. The fork has about 120 mi and 10 hours on it. The noise happens when applying torque to the handlebars, when going over chunk small or large. Noise also happens when riding into a square edge, such as a sidewalk curb.

So thinking it might be headset or stem I cleaned and regreased the stem bolts, face clamp and headset. The fork makes the same creak noise when applying force to the legs and can be heard in this video I took: K. shared 1 video with you

Anyone have any recommendation on what else I should check? Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## jmvar (Feb 2, 2004)

mobilenemo said:


> The mezzer I've been running has developed cracking / creaking sounds. The fork has about 120 mi and 10 hours on it. The noise happens when applying torque to the handlebars, when going over chunk small or large. Noise also happens when riding into a square edge, such as a sidewalk curb.
> 
> So thinking it might be headset or stem I cleaned and regreased the stem bolts, face clamp and headset. The fork makes the same creak noise when applying force to the legs and can be heard in this video I took: K. shared 1 video with you
> 
> ...


Oh man I have the same creaking sound. I have been chasing it and have tried everything you have also. Not sure there is much more we can check but I will let others chime in. I was going to switch forks on the bike to try and isolate it to the fork but will probably get around to it next week.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Well I had time so I swapped forks to the original one that came with the bike, a MRP stage, and did the same test. No creaks or cracking sounds at all.

Not sure what's going on with the mezzer but I'm going to shoot an email out to Manitou come Monday and see what they say

Edit: forgot to add video: K. shared 1 video with you

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Does your Mezzer still creak now that it’s off your bike? My only thought would be that you stumbled on whatever was loose or dirty during the fork swap and you fixed it, which is why the creak is gone. At least that’s what I would expect Manitou’s response would be.

I’ve had a creak develop a couple times, the first time I pulled the Mezzer off, thoroughly cleaned all the bolts, bearings, and inside the head tube. Greased everything up, reinstalled, and everything was quiet again. Today I developed a creak again similar to yours and tightened everything up and the creak seems to be gone, but I’ll have to hit the trail again to be sure. It seemed to be the bolt in the cap came a little loose this time, which allowed a little play.

My recommendation would be to try cleaning and re-greasing your bearings, and wiping out inside the head tube. Then swap the Mezzer back onto your bike and see if the creak is still there before calling Manitou. If it still creaks then you’ll be able to tell them that everything is clean and tightened, you’ve swapped forks with a fresh set-up, and the creak only happens with the Mezzer. Or hopefully everything will be great and there won’t be a creak any more.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

160mm expert on the way. When they mention "E-Pac" does that indicate extra travel spacers in swag bag? I'll probably end up at 150mm.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Turd said:


> 160mm expert on the way. When they mention "E-Pac" does that indicate extra travel spacers in swag bag? I'll probably end up at 150mm.


E-Pac I believe is certified for up to 150kg E-bikes and Cargo Bikes.

All of them get the spacers in the bag.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Moosedriver said:


> Does your Mezzer still creak now that it's off your bike? My only thought would be that you stumbled on whatever was loose or dirty during the fork swap and you fixed it, which is why the creak is gone. At least that's what I would expect Manitou's response would be.
> 
> I've had a creak develop a couple times, the first time I pulled the Mezzer off, thoroughly cleaned all the bolts, bearings, and inside the head tube. Greased everything up, reinstalled, and everything was quiet again. Today I developed a creak again similar to yours and tightened everything up and the creak seems to be gone, but I'll have to hit the trail again to be sure. It seemed to be the bolt in the cap came a little loose this time, which allowed a little play.
> 
> My recommendation would be to try cleaning and re-greasing your bearings, and wiping out inside the head tube. Then swap the Mezzer back onto your bike and see if the creak is still there before calling Manitou. If it still creaks then you'll be able to tell them that everything is clean and tightened, you've swapped forks with a fresh set-up, and the creak only happens with the Mezzer. Or hopefully everything will be great and there won't be a creak any more.


When I did the fork swap I didn't clean and regrease the old fork. Basically pulled off the previously cleaned mezzer and installed the old fork using the same bearings and left alone the grease already on the headset and stem.

I added the video of the old fork swapped into my previous post #3404.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Dougal said:


> E-Pac I believe is certified for up to 150kg E-bikes and Cargo Bikes.
> 
> All of them get the spacers in the bag.


Sweet, guess I'm covered @87kg with bike. 150kg is like 330lbs, that's beefie kong.


----------



## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

mobilenemo said:


> The mezzer I've been running has developed cracking / creaking sounds. The fork has about 120 mi and 10 hours on it. The noise happens when applying torque to the handlebars, when going over chunk small or large. Noise also happens when riding into a square edge, such as a sidewalk curb.
> 
> So thinking it might be headset or stem I cleaned and regreased the stem bolts, face clamp and headset. The fork makes the same creak noise when applying force to the legs and can be heard in this video I took: K. shared 1 video with you
> 
> ...


Buddy of mine with Mezzer has exactly that same issue. Sounds 100% identical. 
Haven't figured out what is causing it yet.

Edit: Has around 30 hours of riding on it.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Does the travel spacers on the Mezzer Pro need to be completely tight together on all sides? Mine were a bit "wobbly" so even though they snapped together just fine, pair one and two of the spacers have a miniscule gap on one side between them. Is this a problem?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Should be fine. If the spacer doesn't come apart easily by just touching it or moving it around with your fingers you should be good.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Yeah, the Manitou spacers don’t fit together as nicely as the Fox ones do. Hey, there’s something that Fox actually does better!


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Manitou have a 34 & 37mm seal press. I stumbled across the part number by accident and ordered one. I'll post it up when they arrive.


I just got that seal driver and it's part number 172-29862, Dorado seal tool.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
Do you know where I can buy those shims which are located in the "rebound" part?
I need especially 2 shims but I guess if so I will have to buy the whole set.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

My mezzer has a "notch" at like half travel. Would that be stiction in the IRT piston or could it be anything else?


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

That is for sure the IRT starting to move.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> My mezzer has a "notch" at like half travel. Would that be stiction in the IRT piston or could it be anything else?


That's also about the point the negative chamber goes from positive to negative pressures. So if those seals are dry they could move at that point.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> That's also about the point the negative chamber goes from positive to negative pressures. So if those seals are dry they could move at that point.


Which seals exactly? The seal head/air shaft interface?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Torque wrenches, seals, air pressures, creaks, etc. I'd like to step away from the technical minuteae of the fork and relate to its performance.

I went on one of our steeper and very rough PNW technical descents last weekend. I was blasting down through bomb-holes and massive roots at a very high clip. The Mezzer took it all with unbelievable smoothness and control. It felt pretty amazing on some seriously challenging terrain. At this point, I very much doubt that any other enduro-focused fork can come close its performance on the steep chunk.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Curveball said:


> I went on one of our steeper and very rough PNW technical descents last weekend. I was blasting down through bomb-holes and massive roots at a very high clip. The Mezzer took it all with unbelievable smoothness and control. It felt pretty amazing on some seriously challenging terrain. At this point, I very much doubt that any other enduro-focused fork can come close its performance on the steep chunk.


People don't believe me when I tell them there is no other production fork that comes remotely close to Mezzer performance.
It is that good.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> People don't believe me when I tell them there is no other production fork that comes remotely close to Mezzer performance.
> It is that good.


It's not surprising to me that the "pro" reviews sell it short considering what I've read in the past from the MTB media. I've been mountain biking over 35 years and the Mezzer is the most amazing fork that I've ever ridden. I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to suspension and I got the Pro working perfectly without any drama. I found your main/IRT pressures to work best.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Curveball said:


> I went on one of our steeper and very rough PNW technical descents last weekend. I was blasting down through bomb-holes and massive roots at a very high clip. The Mezzer took it all with unbelievable smoothness and control. It felt pretty amazing on some seriously challenging terrain. At this point, I very much doubt that any other enduro-focused fork can come close its performance on the steep chunk.


My riding has really progressed at a faster pace since installing the Mezzer at the end of last year. It performs so well and feels bottomless so that it gives me confidence to try stuff that scares me. 


Dougal said:


> People don't believe me when I tell them there is no other production fork that comes remotely close to Mezzer performance.
> It is that good.


I have a new in box Pike Ultimate with a Smashpot kit installed that will get sold because I rolled the dice on a Mezzer during the Black Friday sale while waiting for the Pike to come in stock.


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

I've finally got a chance to ride some chunky fast hitting trails last weekend. The Mezzer Pro was outstanding! Wasn't trying to beat any PRs and wasn't pushing the limits but got home and saw the results. Beat certain sections by 20 seconds. I'm about 160lbs and took Dougals setting of lower pressures and using some LSC. Running a mullet setup with 160mm of travel and having a blast!


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

*Broken record*
Lyrik/Runt/Avy is better...

With a waranteed damper and burnished bushings though, the mezzer is putting up a much better fight now. I still haven't been able to get the support I want without harshness, but with the repairs, I still need to do more tuning.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

mike156 said:


> *Broken record*
> Lyrik/Runt/Avy is better...
> 
> With a waranteed damper and burnished bushings though, the mezzer is putting up a much better fight now. I still haven't been able to get the support I want without harshness, but with the repairs, I still need to do more tuning.


I agree, had exact same setup and was the best fork I've had so far but Mezzer puts up a good fight so I'm going to burnish the bushings and see how it feels, already running a custom Dougal tune so I'm going to move out to my mid travel bike since long travel bike is getting an Avalanche Hybrid coil Zeb so I should be pretty dialed after that.


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Hi,
Just torn my ACL and ordered a Mezzer expert before I knew it.
I'm going to opt for a short travel bike and I think having the Mezzer expert is too much of a fork.

Can it be trimmed to 130mm? Keep in mind, I'm looking for suppleness and extra 300g over SiD or Pike are okay.

Cheers!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> *Broken record*
> Lyrik/Runt/Avy is better...
> 
> With a waranteed damper and burnished bushings though, the mezzer is putting up a much better fight now. I still haven't been able to get the support I want without harshness, but with the repairs, I still need to do more tuning.


What are your current settings?


----------



## bbbr (Nov 6, 2005)

ForMartha said:


> Hi,
> Just torn my ACL and ordered a Mezzer expert before I knew it.
> I'm going to opt for a short travel bike and I think having the Mezzer expert is too much of a fork.
> 
> ...


you can drop it to 140mm very easily and set the sag a little soft. Did the same to mine (on the Pro) and two rides in its a very impressive fork that handles the small and the large hits better than anything else I've ridden.


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

Rode 30 miles a couple weekends ago over 2 days, focused on a lot of pedaling leading into tech trails. Expert is really continuing to perform. I did eat sh*t and lightly scratch the stanchions (one of those "how did that happen?" wrecks where the bike took more abuse than I did) so we'll see how that goes over time.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> What are your current settings?


As soft as I can stand. 62/92, LSC3, HSC2, LSR6.

Overall, it feels pretty good. I haven't had it on high speed chunk yet but that's tomorrow's ride. I plan on speeding up rebound if it's feeling rough, which I'm suspecting it's going to. Less compression or air pressure feels like crap and that's where I'd say it's lacking compared to the Lyrik, it's still a bit down on support but not by much.

It's not all bad though, before swapping the damper, I don't know if I ever used the last 30mm of travel (40mm of stanchion showing). I took a hard clap two weeks ago and only had about 10mm left. HSC is definitely better now so there is hope it works at speed.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> As soft as I can stand. 62/92, LSC3, HSC2, LSR6.
> 
> Overall, it feels pretty good. I haven't had it on high speed chunk yet but that's tomorrow's ride. I plan on speeding up rebound if it's feeling rough, which I'm suspecting it's going to. Less compression or air pressure feels like crap and that's where I'd say it's lacking compared to the Lyrik, it's still a bit down on support but not by much.
> 
> It's not all bad though, before swapping the damper, I don't know if I ever used the last 30mm of travel (40mm of stanchion showing). I took a hard clap two weeks ago and only had about 10mm left. HSC is definitely better now so there is hope it works at speed.


What's your weight again?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Riding weight is probably 215-220. Set at 180mm.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I spoke too soon, it handled the fast chunk pretty well today. I can still probably add a bit more compression to get the support up without getting too much high speed harshness. Today is the first day of riding on the Mezzer that finally I don't feel a little disappointed in it.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mike156 said:


> I spoke too soon, it handled the fast chunk pretty well today. I can still probably add a bit more compression to get the support up without getting too much high speed harshness. Today is the first day of riding on the Mezzer that finally I don't feel a little disappointed in it.


I would add 2psi to the main to get you to Manitou's recommended pressures which will help with keeping it up in its stroke and also slow the rebound. I had been speeding up the rebound quite a bit as I thought it was the direction I needed to go but after speaking with someone who was involved with the development of the Mezzer they recommended I almost close the rebound and try again. I'm now at one click from closed on an LE and it feels amazing. I seriously thought it would pack and whilst it feels very different to what I had been running it's definitely generating more grip and feels smoother too.

There was talk of the LE and normal Mezzer having a slightly different rebound tune but I'm not sure if this has been confirmed 100% as yet or if it's a rumour like the compression stack change.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Riding weight is probably 215-220. Set at 180mm.


Open HSC and close the LSC. Air pressures aren't far away for a starting point.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> There was talk of the LE and normal Mezzer having a slightly different rebound tune but I'm not sure if this has been confirmed 100% as yet or if it's a rumour like the compression stack change.


Rebound shim change (1 less shim) was the only change to the damper tune. LE of course are all MY21.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Is my shock pump over reading?

I am 185lbs/84kg, at 170mm. Currently running more PSI than expected, at 55/95. Still riding lower in the travel than i'd like and able to use full travel fairly easily. Lsc is 1 click from closed and HSC 1 click from open.

Dougal's calculator says i should be on 42lb/in. According to the pressures he posted, that's equivalent to 45/85psi.

Might extend to 180mm to try help the ride height. Am I on the right track here?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I lied, guess I should have counted it instead of going from memory. I was a couple clicks off from where I thought.

LSC1 (about 1-3/4 clicks from full closed), HSC2, REB10 (1/2 click to full open). 

I guess it's worth pointing out, despite having this fork for 6 months, I've only had a not broken fork for about 4 rides now so there could be room for improvement still.

I've tried less HSC and didn't like it. I've operated under the impression that fully closed LSC isn't a great idea?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

spo0n said:


> Is my shock pump over reading?
> 
> I am 185lbs/84kg, at 170mm. Currently running more PSI than expected, at 55/95. Still riding lower in the travel than i'd like and able to use full travel fairly easily. Lsc is 1 click from closed and HSC 1 click from open.
> 
> ...


42lb spring is too light for your weight at that travel imo. Is your weight with all your gear on? I'm 88kg on the bike (Titan @170 travel) and currently have 59/87psi with similar damping to you and use all my travel many times on the trails. I increase HSC a click or two when doing bigger drops and jumps. Maybe try putting a couple of psi into the main, that'll help with holding it up.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

springs said:


> 42lb spring is too light for your weight at that travel imo. Is your weight with all your gear on? I'm 88kg on the bike (Titan @170 travel) and currently have 59/87psi with similar damping to you and use all my travel many times on the trails. I increase HSC a click or two when doing bigger drops and jumps. Maybe try putting a couple of psi into the main, that'll help with holding it up.


Yeah, I was just wondering because all of the recommendations for my weight in this thread seem to be closer to 50/80, on CCS86's spreadsheet and elsewhere. Lower than Manitou's recommendations.

Oh yeah, I'm 84 with no gear so probably close to same as you ready to ride. Will try copying your settings as a start point haha. What rebound setting are you running? Stock tune?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

springs said:


> . I had been speeding up the rebound quite a bit as I thought it was the direction I needed to go but after speaking with someone who was involved with the development of the Mezzer they recommended I almost close the rebound and try again. I'm now at one click from closed on an LE and it feels amazing. I seriously thought it would pack and whilst it feels very different to what I had been running it's definitely generating more grip and feels smoother too..


That is the exact opposite experience to mine.

Running one clock from open after removing a shim for the MY21 rebound tune. It has never felt better.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> Is my shock pump over reading?
> 
> I am 185lbs/84kg, at 170mm. Currently running more PSI than expected, at 55/95. Still riding lower in the travel than i'd like and able to use full travel fairly easily. Lsc is 1 click from closed and HSC 1 click from open.
> 
> ...


So what's the problem? Is it riding too low and steepening up the bike or does it just feel low?

If you want to higher ride height but similar bottom-out force then drop IRT and increase main pressure so you've got about the same amount of air in the fork.

It never hurts to check your pump against others.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> So what's the problem? Is it riding too low and steepening up the bike or does it just feel low?
> 
> If you want to higher ride height but similar bottom-out force then drop IRT and increase main pressure so you've got about the same amount of air in the fork.
> 
> It never hurts to check your pump against others.


Steepening the bike. Noticing a fair bit of brake dive. Might try a bit more main pressure


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> Steepening the bike. Noticing a fair bit of brake dive. Might try a bit more main pressure


Brake dive is always going to happen. The spring-rate determines how far it will dive and the damping determines how quickly it gets there. Higher main air pressures make the second stage IRT effect kick in sooner.
Also look at your rear shock. A less than stable tune there will have you being kicked up from the rear under braking.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Okay, i seem to have mis-remembered my pressures. I should check before i talk. I checked and i was at 60/85 psi. 😆 

I went up to 65/100. Feels good. No issues getting full travel. I'm pretty sure my pump is off. What pump do you guys recommend? 

Now running LSC 2 from closed, hsc 1 from open


----------



## frischensbub (Nov 30, 2016)

That's nearly my settings with 84 Kg's geared up and a Mezzer Pro with 150mm travel. I experimented quite a bit and my current sweet spot is 61PSI main chamber vs. 100PSI IRT pressure. My LSC is set to 3 clicks from closed, my HSC ist set to fully open or one click from open, depending on trail. My rebound setting is 6 clicks from closed.

It seems that my old analog pump is quite reliable compared to a digital gauge.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Any Giyo pumps are good from my testing. Didn't matter who's brand is on the outside of them.

If the gauge has taken a hit they can become inaccurate.

Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Where is the 'Dougal Calculator?

I'm 102kg ready to ride
MY21 pro @ 170 

Currently 58/91 , would like to soften it up off the top...mid support feels ok perhaps bit much, rarely get near the HBO.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm 95kg running LE's @ 180mm with 73/103 (HSC -3, LSC -6, RBD -1) up from 62/92 and finding it nice and supportive maybe just a firm for using travel. 
Next ride I will drop to 71/101. Experimenting with pressures on both pairs (150mm & 180mm) I have always found myself above the recommended pressures. 
This review got my intrigued to try the mentioned pressures 








Manitou Mezzer Pro Review


A review of the Manitou Mezzer: A 37mm enduro/AM mountain bike fork with available travel range between 140-180mm, providing HSC/LSC/LSR adjustments, hydraulic bottom out, and ease of service with a compliant ride quality.




www.crankyginger.com


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

wake jake said:


> I'm 95kg running LE's @ 180mm with 73/103 (HSC -3, LSC -6, RBD -1) up from 62/92 and finding it nice and supportive maybe just a firm for using travel.
> Next ride I will drop to 71/101. Experimenting with pressures on both pairs (150mm & 180mm) I have always found myself above the recommended pressures.
> This review got my intrigued to try the mentioned pressures
> 
> ...


It's a common theme with people wanting to run it too firm, then backing off pressure and letting the damper do the work as they get used to it.
Both Fox and RS right now have dampers which are harsh but underdamped and using the air-spring for pretty much all the support. So a lot of riders (and online reviewers) tend to try that first.

The ones who get enough riding on it (like that crankyginger guy) find how well it works with the right pressure. The ones who go "nah I want it higher" (like magentabike) find it lacks traction and bag it in their reviews.

Where here I am modifying and custom tuning RS and Fox fork dampers to behave like my tuned Manitou!


----------



## Nay (Jul 27, 2012)

^^^I keep dropping pressure on my Expert with the IVA tokens not in play. I'm at 41 now, it was really good this weekend on a big chunky erosion descent (Section 16 in COS), suspect I'll drop a bit further and then move some tokens back (or install the IRT once available).

I'm two clicks off max damping, VVT is open as I keep dropping PSI, 170mm fork, 175 lbs kitted up.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

88kg geared
LE 160mm

I've been playing around widely with the pressures and settings a lot but kinda keeping in with the ratio of around 1.5. Out this weekend and was running the pressures a bit lower. 48/78IRT, HSC open, LSC open, rebound open. Actually felt ok like this. Repeated hits were quite harsh though (rebound) so closed up rebound to 3 from closed and added about 3 clicks of LSC/ 1 of HSC. (both from open). Fork tracked better then anything with these settings but interestingly the initial / or occasional medium sized hit was rather harsh, as if the fork was "slamming" into the progression wall. Going to go up slightly on my pressures and narrow the ratio to around 1.3 / 1.4 see how it does. I'm guessing that it will be pretty supportive and because the ratio narrows will ride slightly higher and take the edge off of the intermediate hits. Does this line of though make sense or am I delusional. Feel like I'm pretty close to fork perfection here and realize that this is pretty subjective, but you know...physics.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Just opened a new Mezzer out of the box and reduced travel to 140mm. Put everything back, aired IRT Chamber to 90psi. I'm attempting to add 60psi to the Main Air Chamber and it's not holding air. I'm using a Topeak Pocketshox DXG pump, and with just one pump it reads 50psi then immediately loses air to zero. Pump action does not feel normal, has very little resistance.. I'm also noticing oil on the stanchions.

Suggestions on where to begin troubleshooting?


----------



## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

RacerLex said:


> Just opened a new Mezzer out of the box and reduced travel to 140mm. Put everything back, aired IRT Chamber to 90psi. I'm attempting to add 60psi to the Main Air Chamber and it's not holding air. I'm using a Topeak Pocketshox DXG pump, and with just one pump it reads 50psi, pump action does not feel normal, has very little resistance.. I'm also noticing oil on the stanchions.
> 
> Suggestions on where to begin troubleshooting?


1 pump 50 psi?
Your pump is either closed, or not connected properly
I have the same pump.
Look at this video on how to use it right.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

OneTrustMan said:


> 1 pump 50 psi?
> Your pump is either closed, or not connected properly
> I have the same pump.


The pump is behaving this way only on the lower Main Air Chamber. Upper IRT air chamber pumps as expected.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

RacerLex said:


> Just opened a new Mezzer out of the box and reduced travel to 140mm. Put everything back, aired IRT Chamber to 90psi. I'm attempting to add 60psi to the Main Air Chamber and it's not holding air. I'm using a Topeak Pocketshox DXG pump, and with just one pump it reads 50psi then immediately loses air to zero. Pump action does not feel normal, has very little resistance.. I'm also noticing oil on the stanchions.
> 
> Suggestions on where to begin troubleshooting?


Have you checked the valve core? I had this problem on my IRT and I found the core was stuck down, so it wasn't closing when removing the pump. I removed the core, cycled a few times, then reinserted the core and no more problem.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Well this is weird... I just tried adding air again and it's working fine now. I had the fork standing vertical for a couple of hours now (instead of laying horizontal), that's the only difference. Would this have even mattered?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Moosedriver said:


> Have you checked the valve core? I had this problem on my IRT and I found the core was stuck down, so it wasn't closing when removing the pump. I removed the core, cycled a few times, then reinserted the core and no more problem.


There isn't a valve core in the main air fitting.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

CCS86 said:


> There isn't a valve core in the main air fitting.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yep, you're right. My terminology stands corrected. That doesn't change the intent of my suggestion; if the Schrader valve is stuck, or isn't protruding far enough, then the valve isn't going to close and the air will escape. At least I tried helping him.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

RacerLex said:


> Just opened a new Mezzer out of the box and reduced travel to 140mm. Put everything back, aired IRT Chamber to 90psi. I'm attempting to add 60psi to the Main Air Chamber and it's not holding air. I'm using a Topeak Pocketshox DXG pump, and with just one pump it reads 50psi then immediately loses air to zero. Pump action does not feel normal, has very little resistance.. I'm also noticing oil on the stanchions.
> 
> Suggestions on where to begin troubleshooting?


First try to screw the pump on further, if that doesn't help find a different pump. Sounds like this one isn't depressing the valve rod properly.

All the GIYO pumps work fine, these are sold with a lot of different brands: giyo shock pump at DuckDuckGo


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Moosedriver said:


> Yep, you're right. My terminology stands corrected. That doesn't change the intent of my suggestion; if the Schrader valve is stuck, or isn't protruding far enough, then the valve isn't going to close and the air will escape. At least I tried helping him.


It's not about terminology. You are suggesting to disassemble the main air valve, as if it is a standard Schrader valve. You actually see the end of a very long shaft to remotely open the main/negative transfer valve and trying to disassemble that like a standard valve is not a great idea.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

CCS86 said:


> It's not about terminology. You are suggesting to disassemble the main air valve, as if it is a standard Schrader valve. You actually see the end of a very long shaft to remotely open the main/negative transfer valve and trying to disassemble that like a standard valve is not a great idea.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Ok, have a good day.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

lukam said:


> You need this part: 141-36713-K034
> It should be cheap and a 10min job to replace. Just grab the shaft and unwind the damadged part.


Hello,
Received the replacement part today. I am not quite sure what you meant by "unwind the damaged part" ?
Does someone know how to remove the broken part by the new one ? I didn't receive any instruction with the part and I am not certain how the replacement part fits in the rod.
Here is a pic of both broken and new parts.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

gui21st said:


> Hello,
> Received the replacement part today. I am not quite sure what you meant by "unwind the damaged part" ?
> Does someone know how to remove the broken part by the new one ? I didn't receive any instruction with the part and I am not certain how the replacement part fits in the rod.
> Here is a pic of both broken and new parts.


See attached Mezzer service guide. The part in your hand looks different than what is installed. Share that with photo with Manitou support and see what they think.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

RacerLex said:


> See attached Mezzer service guide. The part in your hand looks different than what is installed. Share that with photo with Manitou support and see what they think.


Thank you for your reply, I already have the service guide but unfortunately it is not really helping with my issue.

The part in my hand (rebound adapter) goes inside the rod/piston of the damper assy, but I'm not sure whether I have to remove the broken part by unthreading it or just pulling it out.

When trying to unthread it, the rod/piston turns with the rebound adapter.

Will contact Manitou anyways, but any suggestion is much appreciated.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

gui21st said:


> Hello,
> Received the replacement part today. I am not quite sure what you meant by "unwind the damaged part" ?
> Does someone know how to remove the broken part by the new one ? I didn't receive any instruction with the part and I am not certain how the replacement part fits in the rod.
> Here is a pic of both broken and new parts.


You have to grab the damper shaft with shaft clamps or if you dont have them with some old inner tube wrapped arround. You then grab the bottom black part with some pliers and unwind it from the shaft. It is not that tight because its a fine thread
You can then remove and replace it. The silver extension you can replace or reuse the old one that is in the shaft.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Thanks, appreciate it, that's really helpful. 
So I just have to hold the shaft while unthreading the rebound adapter !


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

My Mezzer is just back from Manitou regarding the mentioned knocking. Based on them everythink is ok. I am surprised that I can only count 9 clicks LSC. I have in mind that it had 10 like written in the manual of Manitou. Does someone here has 9 clicks too or can it be now a fault during assemply?


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Lutsch said:


> My Mezzer is just back from Manitou regarding the mentioned knocking. Based on them everythink is ok. I am surprised that I can only count 9 clicks LSC. I have in mind that it had 10 like written in the manual of Manitou. Does someone here has 9 clicks too or can it be now a fault during assemply?


9 clicks is 10 positions, right?


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Vespasianus said:


> 9 clicks is 10 positions, right?


Yep. Mine has 9 clicks as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

Vespasianus said:


> 9 clicks is 10 positions, right?


From full closed, the first noticeable click is only a few degrees of rotation. If I take this as position 1 I can count in sum 9 clear positions, the 10th is direct at the stop of the rotation or very very close to it so hard to feel.


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

Hi, 
still not sure about buying a manitou instead of RS..

Guys, how hard is the "hardest" setting on the EXPERT? 
is it close to a full lockout - like a Yari? (most of my riding happens after a 11km gravel climb..)

Thx


----------



## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

radiomir79 said:


> Hi,
> still not sure about buying a manitou instead of RS..
> 
> Guys, how hard is the "hardest" setting on the EXPERT?
> ...


I think if your a seated climber and have decent linkage/shock this is a none issue. If you stand more then seated climbing maybe not so much.

I do some asphalt climbs about that distance on a 170 Mezzer setup on the softer side, absolutely no issue.


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

TraxFactory said:


> I think if your a seated climber and have decent linkage/shock this is a none issue. If you stand more then seated climbing maybe not so much.
> 
> I do some asphalt climbs about that distance on a 170 Mezzer setup on the softer side, absolutely no issue.


Hi, thank you! 
Because of where I live/ride, I have a quite specific build. I am on a v4 nomad, build up as a "big trail bike". I had to put a RCT3 charger 2.1 into a yari to achieve what I want from my fork.
(firm platform, better damper than the yari motion control) But since I would love to have a stiffer fork, the mezzer seems to be a great option. (37mm and around 2kg light) If the mezzer had a firm platform or even a lock out, I would be very happy.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

radiomir79 said:


> Hi, thank you!
> Because of where I live/ride, I have a quite specific build. I am on a v4 nomad, build up as a "big trail bike". I had to put a RCT3 charger 2.1 into a yari to achieve what I want from my fork.
> (firm platform, better damper than the yari motion control) But since I would love to have a stiffer fork, the mezzer seems to be a great option. (37mm and around 2kg light) If the mezzer had a firm platform or even a lock out, I would be very happy.


The Mezzer Expert will essentially lockout with its 6 clicks of compression dialed all the way closed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

radiomir79 said:


> Hi, thank you!
> Because of where I live/ride, I have a quite specific build. I am on a v4 nomad, build up as a "big trail bike". I had to put a RCT3 charger 2.1 into a yari to achieve what I want from my fork.
> (firm platform, better damper than the yari motion control) But since I would love to have a stiffer fork, the mezzer seems to be a great option. (37mm and around 2kg light) If the mezzer had a firm platform or even a lock out, I would be very happy.


My bike has more squish than yours, I pedal it everywhere and I've never needed a fork lockout. With your suspension setup correctly they don't wallow and bob around unless you've got a seriously rough pedal stroke.


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

[


johnsogr said:


> The Mezzer Expert will essentially lockout with its 6 clicks of compression dialed all the way closed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


QUOTE="johnsogr, post: 15304134, member: 440880"]
The Mezzer Expert will essentially lockout with its
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]


johnsogr said:


> The Mezzer Expert will essentially lockout with its 6 clicks of compression dialed all the way closed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hi! Well THIS is what I was hoping to hear! If the compression on the expert - when fully closed creates a firm platform - that is all I need! I think I could be happy with the expert.
I just hope it will be reliable (creaking / air spring issues)

thank you


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

Dougal said:


> My bike has more squish than yours, I pedal it everywhere and I've never needed a fork lockout. With your suspension setup correctly they don't wallow and bob around unless you've got a seriously rough pedal stroke.


hi, yes, I know what you mean. Still, I would be super happy if I could firm up / lock the fork. I often sprint up the hill "roadie" style.. not seated. A firm platform is a great help. The lyrik Rct3 is a great fork, but I would love to have something a bit more stiff. The mezzer expert seems to be a great option (no bladder, not too heavy, not too tall) 
I just hope it will be at least as reliable as my last 2 Lyrik forks. Most of the mattoc forks around me had some problems (bushing play, creaking csu, and all had this strange issue with the air spring) ..that made me stay away from manitou. When I think about it, my last manitou fork was the "supernova"


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

radiomir79 said:


> [
> 
> QUOTE="johnsogr, post: 15304134, member: 440880"]
> The Mezzer Expert will essentially lockout with its
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hi! Well THIS is what I was hoping to hear! If the compression on the expert - when fully closed creates a firm platform - that is all I need! I think I could be happy with the expert.
I just hope it will be reliable (creaking / air spring issues)

thank you[/QUOTE]

Love the expert, only change I made is installing IRT aftermarket (highly recommend)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## radiomir79 (May 2, 2011)

johnsogr said:


> hi! Well THIS is what I was hoping to hear! If the compression on the expert - when fully closed creates a firm platform - that is all I need! I think I could be happy with the expert.
> I just hope it will be reliable (creaking / air spring issues)
> 
> thank you


Love the expert, only change I made is installing IRT aftermarket (highly recommend)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I will try to order it with the fork. I am looking forward to try something else than RS and Fox.


----------



## deserthi (Apr 10, 2021)

I am looking for a *MASTODON PRO 120 STD for my fat bike but it seems they are all sold out. Does anyone know why this is?*


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

deserthi said:


> I am looking for a *MASTODON PRO 120 STD for my fat bike but it seems they are all sold out. Does anyone know why this is?*


Because demand is exceeding supply. I've got one in stock.


----------



## deserthi (Apr 10, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Because demand is exceeding supply. I've got one in stock.


Is that $1185.85 New Zealand price so the US Price is around $850?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

deserthi said:


> Is that $1185.85 New Zealand price so the US Price is around $850?


Unfortunately exchange rate swings are making it pretty painful for you guys.
It's $NZD1629 including our taxes. $US1024 at the moment with no taxes!


----------



## funkymonks (Aug 23, 2017)

When I called in March, Manitou previously had said they expected Mezzers & Mara Pros restocked (in the US) around now. They have changed their estimate to mid-to-late July. Also it looks like MSRP on a Mezzer is now up to $1049 USD so a price bump, I'm sure due to increased material costs. I did finally manage to get one and it is freshly installed on my Ripmo. Very excited to play around with it tomorrow. Thanks in advance to everyone who has posted helpful information in this thread and the Owner's thread.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Any mudguard improvisations on the mezzer except the stock fender which turns insufficient for lots of cases??


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Mudhugger might make one that fit


----------



## ForMartha (Dec 12, 2020)

Heya,
So - I received the new Mezzer, but, I'm unable to ride it for at least 5 month. At the same time, I'm thinking about replacing my bike and get a shorter travel ones. I would like to know, does the Mezzer Expert can be lowered to 130mm? if so, what's the outcome of such a move (I mean, in terms of functionality and ride quality).

Cheers,
Mor


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Hey there Mezzer fellowship. I noticed over last 2 weeks my Mezzer Pro shortens/loses travel rapidly. I run it at 160 and noticed recently that travel had shortened to less than 140 within 4 days of no ride time. I then reset main and IRT chambers from scratch, fully deflating main first, then fully deflate IRT, re-inflate IRT and then re-inflate main chamber (always in that sequence). After doing that, travel resets back to full 160 initially, but then travel reduces by about 20mm or more after just a single ride. Is this something I can easily fix myself or warranty case to Manitou?

Not sure if it matters, but I am 155 pounds out of the shower and usually run 35/60 (LSC half to fully closed) or 40/70 (LSC fully open) and HSC always full open.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

fizzywater said:


> Hey there Mezzer fellowship. I noticed over last 2 weeks my Mezzer Pro shortens/loses travel rapidly. I run it at 160 and noticed recently that travel had shortened to less than 140 within 4 days of no ride time. I then reset main and IRT chambers from scratch, fully deflating main first, then fully deflate IRT, re-inflate IRT and then re-inflate main chamber (always in that sequence). After doing that, travel resets back to full 160 initially, but then travel reduces by about 20mm or more after just a single ride. Is this something I can easily fix myself or warranty case to Manitou?
> 
> Not sure if it matters, but I am 155 pounds out of the shower and usually run 35/60 (LSC half to fully closed) or 40/70 (LSC fully open) and HSC always full open.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It sounds like a leak in the air spring. I'd guess that you can either take it apart, clean and grease the seals (or replace them), and put it back together, or you can warranty it. Oh, it occurred to me that you should check the inflation valve for leaks by putting some water on it and look for bubbles. It could just be a loose valve core.

I'm the same weight as you and set mine up about as you do and really dig it.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

spo0n said:


> Mudhugger might make one that fit


I drilled some new holes in a Mudhugger Long Front to match the Mezzers arch location. It worked great for the winter.
I'm back to bolt-on Mezzer fender now that the weather is better.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

hugelick said:


> I drilled some new holes in a Mudhugger Long Front to match the Mezzers arch location. It worked great for the winter.
> I'm back to bolt-on Mezzer fender now that the weather is better.


Stock one seems to make noise for me


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Curveball said:


> It sounds like a leak in the air spring. I'd guess that you can either take it apart, clean and grease the seals (or replace them), and put it back together, or you can warranty it. Oh, it occurred to me that you should check the inflation valve for leaks by putting some water on it and look for bubbles. It could just be a loose valve core.
> 
> I'm the same weight as you and set mine up about as you do and really dig it.


Yep, I contacted Manitou support and they suggested to check if the inflation valve is leaking using soapy water. Will check later tonight.

In terms of setup, both setups work very well for me, but I will say the Mezzer is not the most supple fork out there. It really comes into its own once you start going faster over nasty rock and hole infested terrain including jumps and big compressions...that's when it really shines, but low and mid speed suppleness is not its forte, or at least I have not been able yet to find a setup to make it work very well for me in all circumstances.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Did the lower leg service on my Mezzer yesterday and found that the bath oil in the damper leg had migrated up on the inside of the stanchion, so the lower leg was basically dry! Anyone else experienced this? Is the plastic white end cap somehow too tight preventing oil flowing back to the lower leg for certain (thicker) oils? I'm using Supergliss 100K now. I haven't experienced this oil migration with Motorex 5W40 that I used during the winter.

And secondly, I can't recall from earlier lower leg services how it should feel, but when cycling the damper shaft I can hear the HBO engaging at the last 30mm of travel (clicking sound), but there's no resistance whatsoever. I suspect there should be some, or is it dependent on the shaft speed?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Two_bricks said:


> Did the lower leg service on my Mezzer yesterday and found that the bath oil in the damper leg had migrated up on the inside of the stanchion, so the lower leg was basically dry! Anyone else experienced this? Is the plastic white end cap somehow too tight preventing oil flowing back to the lower leg for certain (thicker) oils? I'm using Supergliss 100K now. I haven't experienced this oil migration with Motorex 5W40 that I used during the winter.
> 
> And secondly, I can't recall from earlier lower leg services how it should feel, but when cycling the damper shaft I can hear the HBO engaging at the last 30mm of travel (clicking sound), but there's no resistance whatsoever. I suspect there should be some, or is it dependent on the shaft speed?


I had the same issue with 100K Supergliss. I've gone back to 5W40 and it seems to have rectified it. You can modify the end cap slightly to help with drainage, there are a few pics in this thread somewhere.

The HBO will provide more resistance with higher shaft speed. Cycling by hand doesn't get it moving rapidly enough to generate much force.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

mike156 said:


> Not sure how well this shows it, but the ring around the damper does in fact NEARLY seal the upper stanchion from the lower leg. The only area you have air/oil to move through is a tiny bit of the notches for the splines.
> 
> I do think the oring likely reduces the potential for noise as the damper can pretty easily flex around to hit the ring.
> 
> ...


Two_Bricks, here is what I did to keep oil from being trapped in the upper stanchion on the damper side.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I had this with WPL 20wt oil, was told it was too thick for lowers oil and to use something less dummy thicc.

Did that and problem went away.

Odd part was one of the oils specified by Manitou support was similar or higher cST than the WPL...maybe some esoteric oil stuff at play there but that totally sounds familiar and the adjustment that mike156 did is a good solution to the issue I think.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Have any of you faced the problem of scratches on the stanchions because of bushings? I purchased my fork and after 5 rides i get scratches on stanchions. I sended my fork to german distributor to fix it, he replace upper of fork, and sent me back. After a few rides the problem occurred again. I send my fork back to them, so they replaced both upper and lower of fork, but now after a few rides i have even more small scratches (lines) on the stanchion (now in different places). One of scratch can feel with the nail. Is this ok? I have this fork about 12 month, 8 of them the fork was traveling to the Manitou service. The warranty will end soon, and i lost already 150 usd shipping my fork to the service and back with no successful result.


----------



## badIuck (Nov 24, 2015)

My Mezzer is spitting oil when changing pressure in the main chamber. Is this normal? Pretty annoying since it floods my shock pump with oil and its on the brake side too


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

badIuck said:


> My Mezzer is spitting oil when changing pressure in the main chamber. Is this normal? Pretty annoying since it floods my shock pump with oil and its on the brake side too


Over time you get oil migration from lower legs into the negative chamber. That'll be how it's getting into your pump.

It's time for an air-spring service.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

I currently run Fox 34+Fractive (2021 chassis + air spring, 2017 FIT4 fractive upgraded) on my TB4.
130mm travel.
Damping on the Fox is very good at the rough stuff, slow or at speed. fast chatter-y stuff is not damped very well and not plush in that kind of terrain. it is VERY supportive, which I learned to like.
Front tire is between 19-21 PSI. Bontrager XR4. AL rims.

I have the opportunity to replace to a new Mezzer expert + IRT kit (a friend bought one and he wont be needing it).

First thing... any experience with running the Mezzer at 130mm? i understand the Negative air chamber may be too big for 130mm. does packing grease in work? or any other method?
what about the IRT volume?

Second - Will the Expert Damper be as good as the Fractive tuned fit4? better? Is that an upgrade at all? worth the hassle?

anyone who rode both and can compare...?

@Dougal?
@mullen119 ?

thanks
Oren


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Anyone have any leads on a 29” mezzer expert? Seems everyone is sold out and all the shops I called said they have no clue when manitou will have more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

OrenPerets said:


> I currently run Fox 34+Fractive (2021 chassis + air spring, 2017 FIT4 fractive upgraded) on my TB4.
> 130mm travel.
> Damping on the Fox is very good at the rough stuff, slow or at speed. fast chatter-y stuff is not damped very well and not plush in that kind of terrain. it is VERY supportive, which I learned to like.
> Front tire is between 19-21 PSI. Bontrager XR4. AL rims.
> ...





socalrider77 said:


> Anyone have any leads on a 29" mezzer expert? Seems everyone is sold out and all the shops I called said they have no clue when manitou will have more
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I still haven't seen a Mezzer Expert. There are delays and shortages across the whole industry still.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

socalrider77 said:


> Anyone have any leads on a 29" mezzer expert? Seems everyone is sold out and all the shops I called said they have no clue when manitou will have more
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


51mm offset Manitou Mezzer EXP suspension fork tapered 15x110 mm Hexlock 29er


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

danforth said:


> Have any of you faced the problem of scratches on the stanchions because of bushings? I purchased my fork and after 5 rides i get scratches on stanchions. I sended my fork to german distributor to fix it, he replace upper of fork, and sent me back. After a few rides the problem occurred again. I send my fork back to them, so they replaced both upper and lower of fork, but now after a few rides i have even more small scratches (lines) on the stanchion (now in different places). One of scratch can feel with the nail. Is this ok? I have this fork about 12 month, 8 of them the fork was traveling to the Manitou service. The warranty will end soon, and i lost already 150 usd shipping my fork to the service and back with no successful result.


I had two mezzers like this. Then luckly I get cash back. Sloppy bushings and scratches. Do you have updated lowers with reliefs?


----------



## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Dougal said:


> I still haven't seen a Mezzer Expert. There are delays and shortages across the whole industry still.


Yea I figured, especially in the short offset. I ended up ordering a yari that I'll turn into a super yari for now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

Uchwmdr said:


> Any mudguard improvisations on the mezzer except the stock fender which turns insufficient for lots of cases??


Did you have any luck getting something to work. The stock mudguard is driving my OCD crazy as it doesn't sit square to the tyre.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

High Alpine stuff is getting clear of snow now and got to finally ride some long, rough terrain. I've had very few times where I've gotten arm pump but my hands still funny today, a day later after how bad it was yesterday.

The fork feels great 90% of the time, but it's still just a little too soft when I want the support but it completely beat the crap out of my arms at higher speeds.

I'm swapping back to my old fork. I'll get to modify the other damper I have to see if it helps.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> High Alpine stuff is getting clear of snow now and got to finally ride some long, rough terrain. I've had very few times where I've gotten arm pump but my hands still funny today, a day later after how bad it was yesterday.
> 
> The fork feels great 90% of the time, but it's still just a little too soft when I want the support but it completely beat the crap out of my arms at higher speeds.
> 
> I'm swapping back to my old fork. I'll get to modify the other damper I have to see if it helps.


What's your weight and pressures again?


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Here's where we left off last time.



Dougal said:


> Open HSC and close the LSC. Air pressures aren't far away for a starting point.


62/92 @220lb riding, 180mm
LSC closed and HSC open is still harsh but then lacks support. It feels like when I've had forks too progressive in the past. More main and less IRT maybe but I'm already not using the last 30mm unless I really screw up.

Honestly, the fork is good for most rides. Riding a shorter but equally high speed chunky trail, it feels good. A long but less chunky trail feels good to. It takes a couple miles of slamming rocks before it reaches a point where it's causing a problem. I don't particularly want to screw with the bike on those rides though, I just want the damn thing to work and to not think about it.


----------



## arkhonic (Apr 30, 2021)

mike156 said:


> Here's where we left off last time.
> 
> 62/92 @220lb riding, 180mm
> LSC closed and HSC open is still harsh but then lacks support. It feels like when I've had forks too progressive in the past. More main and less IRT maybe but I'm already not using the last 30mm unless I really screw up.
> ...


I'm about your weight and run mine at 180mm.
run 63/87.5
HSC +3 from closed
LSC +6 from closed
Rebound +5

If I had to guess, the LSC is creating the harshness, you could add some air and reduce compression if trying to get support. flow trails I'll add some more LSC, but for rocky trails I run the above.


----------



## Symion (Feb 6, 2009)

@mike156
Open up the lsc, get 1-2 clicks hsc (from open).
Best way ist adding some compression shims. For heavy rider its just too soft, so you end up deeper in the travel than you want.

Whats your lsr settings? The Mezzer needs to be run pretty fast on the lsr.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Getting so sick of the Fox36 CSU creak and now top out clunk and I'm looking into the Mezzer and have a couple of questions.

CSU creak, top out clunk, bushing play, etc > How are the Mezzers holding up with this stuff?
For my 36's I just swap out the bath oil and seals twice a year and I'm pretty much done. Maybe do the damper every other year. How's the annual maintenance on these puppies?
I noticed a lot of crazy tuning going on reading up on the threads. Is that super necessary or can I get it dialed in pretty well just using the knobs and air? For reference I'm a 160 lb rider and it'd be going on a RipmoV1.
Pro or Expert? I can be pretty picky with tuning suspension but if something is working right I like to leave it alone.
Where/when can I get one? I've been looking for a 29r 44m for over a month and not one fork available anywhere.

Forgive me if these questions have been answered but I'm not reading all 3513 posts. 
Cheers!


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

springs said:


> I had the same issue with 100K Supergliss. I've gone back to 5W40 and it seems to have rectified it. You can modify the end cap slightly to help with drainage, there are a few pics in this thread somewhere.
> 
> The HBO will provide more resistance with higher shaft speed. Cycling by hand doesn't get it moving rapidly enough to generate much force.





mike156 said:


> Two_Bricks, here is what I did to keep oil from being trapped in the upper stanchion on the damper side.





silentG said:


> I had this with WPL 20wt oil, was told it was too thick for lowers oil and to use something less dummy thicc.
> 
> Did that and problem went away.
> 
> Odd part was one of the oils specified by Manitou support was similar or higher cST than the WPL...maybe some esoteric oil stuff at play there but that totally sounds familiar and the adjustment that mike156 did is a good solution to the issue I think.


Great! Thanks all!  That end cap mod is a must-do for sure. I' rather not switch to any other fluid than Supergliss 100k during the summer season, that fluid is magically slippery. It really changed how the fork behaves


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

benno_r said:


> Did you have any luck getting something to work. The stock mudguard is driving my OCD crazy as it doesn't sit square to the tyre.


I use a mudhugger - just put new holes in for the arch


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

mike156 said:


> Here's where we left off last time.
> 
> 62/92 @220lb riding, 180mm
> LSC closed and HSC open is still harsh but then lacks support. It feels like when I've had forks too progressive in the past. More main and less IRT maybe but I'm already not using the last 30mm unless I really screw up.
> ...


You seem pretty knowledgeable so i don't mean to frustrate you with more options, but...

Did you get into the shim stack? It sounds to me like you might want to lighten up the damping (e.g. remove the extra shim, as discussed at the beginning of this thread) and add more air to compensate.

I did the 12mm shim swap and still find myself running wide open all the time, so I'm about to remove it entirely. 185lbs @ 170mm.


----------



## tank19 (Sep 26, 2016)

Dougal said:


> I still haven't seen a Mezzer Expert. There are delays and shortages across the whole industry still.


I called the support line and they didn't have a good answer. Fall or Winter was the consensus but they said they likely would provide them to shops for distribution instead of selling from the Hayes site. I have a Zeb in the mail as we speak. I was hoping for a Mezzer but it wasnt meant to be this go around.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Here's where we left off last time.
> 
> 62/92 @220lb riding, 180mm
> LSC closed and HSC open is still harsh but then lacks support. It feels like when I've had forks too progressive in the past. More main and less IRT maybe but I'm already not using the last 30mm unless I really screw up.
> ...


So first up. You're not getting full travel and you're feeling it's a bit harsh.
You want more support.

Compression damping range is fine for your size, so that's not the issue. So it's spring-tuning we're looking at. There are three options.
1. Make it more linear.
2. Make it more progressive.
3. Make it softer.

Now the support thing is counter to your other desires. But stay with me. Lack of support is felt for two reasons.
1. The fork doesn't have enough compression damping (not the case here).
2. The fork is starting higher and dives too far before it gets enough spring force to hold you up.

I think you're experiencing the second.

So combining these two I think you need a more progressive setup that's softer off the top so you ride lower but closer to the progressive part of the curve.

Try 55/100psi and see how you like that. Keep LSC closed and HSC open for now.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ungod said:


> You seem pretty knowledgeable so i don't mean to frustrate you with more options, but...
> 
> Did you get into the shim stack? It sounds to me like you might want to lighten up the damping (e.g. remove the extra shim, as discussed at the beginning of this thread) and add more air to compensate.
> 
> I did the 12mm shim swap and still find myself running wide open all the time, so I'm about to remove it entirely. 185lbs @ 170mm.


What air pressure are you running? At your weight you're not overdamped with the 12mm shim. I'd lower air pressure before removing more damping.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The Lyrik is back on the bike for now. Maybe I've got rose colored lenses on and am remembering it better than it really is.

Dougal, could be the case. It feels too progressive to me, but I get what you are suggesting. My Lyrik is 170mm so I can definitely tolerate more sag at 180mm. I rode a pike at 160mm before that too so the bike tolerates different front heights pretty well.

It feels too soft when you stuff the front wheel into something and it "hangs up." Slow tech where you don't have the momentum to carry you through or really steep stuff where you have a lot of weight on the front even when you are as far down and back as you can go is the only time I notice it. Berms feel good for support.

Fully aware too, my ability is the limiting factor in all cases. I'm looking for a setup that will save me from myself. Lol


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> The Lyrik is back on the bike for now. Maybe I've got rose colored lenses on and am remembering it better than it really is.
> 
> Dougal, could be the case. It feels too progressive to me, but I get what you are suggesting. My Lyrik is 170mm so I can definitely tolerate more sag at 180mm. I rode a pike at 160mm before that too so the bike tolerates different front heights pretty well.
> 
> ...


If your Lyrik is an RC2 then it's got very little compression damping and depending on your spacer setup might not be that progressive. Mid-stroke is definitely softer and less supportive on the Lyriks.

Let us know how your back to back testing goes. My suspicion is you're running the Mezzer higher and firmer than you need to.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It's got a Runt, Avy damper with FVaT/HSB, Debonair (the saggy good one), low friction seals, and burnished bushings.

In complete fairness, I'm putting Mezzer up against (arguably) the best fork on the market and it's a pretty close fight.

I'd say the Mezzer is the better chassis. But the Runt and Avy are pretty damn good together.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> It's got a Runt, Avy damper with FVaT/HSB, Debonair (the saggy good one), low friction seals, and burnished bushings.
> 
> In complete fairness, I'm putting Mezzer up against (arguably) the best fork on the market and it's a pretty close fight.
> 
> I'd say the Mezzer is the better chassis. But the Runt and Avy are pretty damn good together.


Oh that Lyrik!
I don't know what damper rates Craig runs, so that's just guesswork. What pressures do you run in your Runt and how often do you get full travel? All the time or only on the hardest hits?

If you want to mimick the pneumatic top-out feel in a Mezzer, just compress it 10mm before removing the pump.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> What air pressure are you running? At your weight you're not overdamped with the 12mm shim. I'd lower air pressure before removing more damping.


I'm at 47/76, but not using full travel either. It's possible my giyo pump is off, but may also be that I'm just a "hang off the back" downhiller.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ungod said:


> I'm at 47/76, but not using full travel either. It's possible my giyo pump is off, but may also be that I'm just a "hang off the back" downhiller.


The tuning gets really interesting. A bigger ratio between pos/irt makes the second stage kick in later. The biggest change to total progression is your positive. Because that's got the most influence on the total amount of air in the fork.

Don't be scared to go lower. You can always set them both the same and see how that feels. Once you've got a good starting point there you can start splitting the pressures again.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> What pressures do you run in your Runt and how often do you get full travel? All the time or only on the hardest hits?
> 
> If you want to mimick the pneumatic top-out feel in a Mezzer, just compress it 10mm before removing the pump.


75/110psi
Never uses full travel, probably hardest hit I've ever had on it still left 10-15mm of travel.

Don't care about the top out behavior, just the larger negative volume.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> 75/110psi
> Never uses full travel, probably hardest hit I've ever had on it still left 10-15mm of travel.
> 
> Don't care about the top out behavior, just the larger negative volume.


Has anyone measured neg volume? I'm thinking they can't be much different.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> The tuning gets really interesting. A bigger ratio between pos/irt makes the second stage kick in later. The biggest change to total progression is your positive. Because that's got the most influence on the total amount of air in the fork.
> 
> Don't be scared to go lower. You can always set them both the same and see how that feels. Once you've got a good starting point there you can start splitting the pressures again.


Thank you as always, i'll give that a shot!


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Question for everyone running a Mezzer Pro fork. What do you guys do with your front brake line? The fork didn't come with any sort of securing nut that holds your brake line to the fork anywhere!? And I can't really find too many good photos of the Mezzer Pro online that show EXACTLY up close how they secure the front brake line to the fork. And which way they run the line. This photo below is about the only one I can find that shows a decent photo.

And to make matters worse, I have Magura MT7 brakes, so the front brake line sticks way out in the front of the bike, instead of laying down nicely to the right and meeting all the other cable housings in the middle.

So what are the best ways to run the front brake line on a Mezzer Pro? Right now I have it running up through the back of the fork, then up through where the front crown would be, pretty much like this photo below, but with nothing to secure it to the fork. It looks really clean and professional like this and I'd rather not use zip ties if possible. This is a custom build and I want everything to look real clean and professional.









So what can I use to attach it? I don't understand why it doesn't come with instructions and a securing nut to hold it?

Any ideas? Thanks


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

Mine was in the bag with the fender. You can buy the cable guide separate if you need to.









Manitou Machete/Mezzer Cable Guide


Manitou Machete/Mezzer Cable Guide :: From $9.99 :: Manitou External Fork Parts




www.universalcycles.com


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

weverb said:


> Mine was in the bag with the fender. You can buy the cable guide separate if you need to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, ok, I'll have to look. I can't remember if my fender was in a bag or not. Hopefully that little clamp is in there! Thanks


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

I have a Mezzer Pro on my Commencal Meta TR and I decided to buy a Mezzer Expert for my Mojo 4 and replace the Fox 34 it came with. 

The Mezzer Expert travel can be adjusted from 180MM -> 140MM (which I need to do) but the way it's adjusted seems to be different than the PRO. Looks like the Expert IVA Air Spring you remove the air spring and there's a 4 position slotted plastic carrier and you clip the puck on the bottom slots depending on how much you want total travel length to be? If I were to replace the Expert IVA Air Spring with the IRT - how would one adjust the travel? Similar to the PRO by removing the stanchions then the air shaft, then adding the clipped plastic pucks together on the air shaft?

I'm assuming to drop from 180 -> 140mm, I'd need to purchase 4 of those 10mm white clip spacers? Does anybody know if it comes with in the box with the EXPERT like it does with the PRO or does it have to be purchased separately?


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

funks said:


> If I were to replace the Expert IVA Air Spring with the IRT - how would one adjust the travel? Similar to the PRO by removing the stanchions then the air shaft, then adding the clipped plastic pucks together on the air shaft?


Same way of changing travel between the Expert and Pro (air spring Plastic spacers)..
I believe they are included.

Oren


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

funks said:


> I have a Mezzer Pro on my Commencal Meta TR and I decided to buy a Mezzer Expert for my Mojo 4 and replace the Fox 34 it came with.
> 
> The Mezzer Expert travel can be adjusted from 180MM -> 140MM (which I need to do) but the way it's adjusted seems to be different than the PRO. Looks like the Expert IVA Air Spring you remove the air spring and there's a 4 position slotted plastic carrier and you clip the puck on the bottom slots depending on how much you want total travel length to be? If I were to replace the Expert IVA Air Spring with the IRT - how would one adjust the travel? Similar to the PRO by removing the stanchions then the air shaft, then adding the clipped plastic pucks together on the air shaft?
> 
> I'm assuming to drop from 180 -> 140mm, I'd need to purchase 4 of those 10mm white clip spacers? Does anybody know if it comes with in the box with the EXPERT like it does with the PRO or does it have to be purchased separately?


Expert travel adjusts the exact same way as the pro, and the upper IVA part adjusts progressivity. IMO, just upgrade to the IRT straightaway with the Expert.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

OrenPerets said:


> Same way of changing travel between the Expert and Pro (air spring Plastic spacers)..
> I believe they are included.
> 
> Oren


Thanks man! - the pic below is to adjust progressiveness then.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

funks said:


> You sure? the pink bike review shows that travel modification is different with the expert as it uses this
> 
> View attachment 1934436


Nope, that's the just like tokens in a RS fork, just adjusts progression. Trust me, I have an expert, and just upped the travel 150 -> 160 using the plastic spacer things

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbbr (Nov 6, 2005)

funks said:


> I have a Mezzer Pro on my Commencal Meta TR and I decided to buy a Mezzer Expert for my Mojo 4 and replace the Fox 34 it came with.
> 
> The Mezzer Expert travel can be adjusted from 180MM -> 140MM (which I need to do) but the way it's adjusted seems to be different than the PRO. Looks like the Expert IVA Air Spring you remove the air spring and there's a 4 position slotted plastic carrier and you clip the puck on the bottom slots depending on how much you want total travel length to be? If I were to replace the Expert IVA Air Spring with the IRT - how would one adjust the travel? Similar to the PRO by removing the stanchions then the air shaft, then adding the clipped plastic pucks together on the air shaft?
> 
> I'm assuming to drop from 180 -> 140mm, I'd need to purchase 4 of those 10mm white clip spacers? Does anybody know if it comes with in the box with the EXPERT like it does with the PRO or does it have to be purchased separately?


The Travel adjustment is identical between the pro and expert (page 31 of the manual - https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...102677333/Mezzer_Pro_Expert_Service_Guide.pdf )

If it doesn't come with the spacers, send me a message. I've got an extra set of spacers that you can have for shipping ($10 in the US).


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Has anyone measured neg volume? I'm thinking they can't be much different.


The negative air spring of the C1 vs B2(?) Debonair Air spring? I believe it was you that made that claim? Looking at the pieces it seems correct though as the seal head trades negative volume for lower leg volume.

Or are you talking Lyrik vs Mezzer?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> The negative air spring of the C1 vs B2(?) Debonair Air spring? I believe it was you that made that claim? Looking at the pieces it seems correct though as the seal head trades negative volume for lower leg volume.
> 
> Or are you talking Lyrik vs Mezzer?


Lyrik vs Mezzer. Mezzer also uses shaft volume, travel is the same. Piston height can't be that different.

I mean I have all of them modelled up in 3D CAD. But it takes spare time and brain power to compare them properly.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, I was just comparing one Debonair spring to the other with that. I have no idea on Mezzer vs Lyrik.

If you have solid models, it actually takes very little brain power. Just create a new solid in your assembly, project the boundary geometry from your parts to a sketch and revolve it around the centerline. Go into properties and check the calculated volume to find your initial volume. From there, it's pretty easy to make an equation of volume with respect to shaft position.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Yeah, I was just comparing one Debonair spring to the other with that. I have no idea on Mezzer vs Lyrik.
> 
> If you have solid models, it actually takes very little brain power. Just create a new solid in your assembly, project the boundary geometry from your parts to a sketch and revolve it around the centerline. Go into properties and check the calculated volume to find your initial volume. From there, it's pretty easy to make an equation of volume with respect to shaft position.


Yeah I've done them before. I can't remember which version of Lyrik air-spring I last calculated out.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> The tuning gets really interesting. A bigger ratio between pos/irt makes the second stage kick in later. The biggest change to total progression is your positive. Because that's got the most influence on the total amount of air in the fork.
> 
> Don't be scared to go lower. You can always set them both the same and see how that feels. Once you've got a good starting point there you can start splitting the pressures again.


Just to follow up on this, I went from 47/76 (1.6x IRT) to 47/70 (1.5x) and it totally fixed my complaint, which was spiking on bigger hits. I'll keep an eye on the travel usage and adjust from there. Mostly just wanted to comment that I deviated from the spreadsheet and it helped a lot.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I did something similar a month back, ended up settling on a 1.55 ratio (40/62)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

ungod said:


> Just to follow up on this, I went from 47/76 (1.6x IRT) to 47/70 (1.5x) and it totally fixed my complaint, which was spiking on bigger hits. I'll keep an eye on the travel usage and adjust from there. Mostly just wanted to comment that I deviated from the spreadsheet and it helped a lot.


I'm down under 1.4 for what is possibly a similar reason. I would think that travel/weight might be relative so I'll add 170mm/200lbs.

A couple of fairly substantial hits (small downed logs) at decent speed (maybe over 25mph) felt like the front wheel was projecting up off more then expected and I'd end up front high like 70's MX.... My simpleton guess was it's an issue with going too deep/too fast into the IRT on compression.

A little more linear setup seems to have solved the issue without any other significant compromises.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The amount of travel will have an impact on the ideal IRT:main ratio.

A 140mm fork will want a higher ratio, due to less natural progression.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

True, should note I run mine at 160


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Also your trails. Some trails want deeper midstroke to eat bumps. Others want more progression to soak up landings.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Hmm, ok, I'll have to look. I can't remember if my fender was in a bag or not. Hopefully that little clamp is in there! Thanks


Found it! You were right, it was in the Fender bag, hidden in the corner. Thanks, looks SO much better now


----------



## weverb (Jun 29, 2011)

SuperWookie said:


> Found it! You were right, it was in the Fender bag, hidden in the corner. Thanks, looks SO much better now


Yeah fooled me too at first. Thought it was a part for the fender. Glad you were able to locate it.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

nikon255 said:


> I had two mezzers like this. Then luckly I get cash back. Sloppy bushings and scratches. Do you have updated lowers with reliefs?


Hi, i have updated lowers if i understand correctly (each character in logo is separate sticker, has bleeding ports). What reliefs do you talking about?

The last version that they send to me has this scratch, but it is small and i don't know should i bother about it...


----------



## smearin (May 3, 2021)

I might have chosen the wrong thread (recent mezzer setup) with this question, so apologies for the spam if so.

Recently pulled off the lowers to change the travel.
Now when I go to turn the rebound knob it won't move like normal? Hayes replied to an email asking if it was screwed on too tight. I get it, stupid consumer, but no. It won't even turn when installed on the shaft (ie. slotted on over the hex end) but not screwed in. While it seems like it should be able to turn the rebound from there.

Anyone else had this issue before?
Could the rebound assembly have been damaged by it turning (only slightly) in the lowers as I reinstalled them last time perhaps? I assume it can spin freely because that's how the old mattocs had the damper side screwed into the lowers.

Perhaps if I had turned it to one extreme (full open or full closed) could it simply need to be turned back the other way with a bit more force than usual?

Even if I do pull the damper and rebound assembly out, is there anything I can see or adjust? Or is it just a sealed unit? I can't seem to find separate parts or an exploded diagram of the rebound side to even see what might be going on in there.

I guess I just want to know if it's an easily damaged part that I should be super careful with, or if it is pretty robust and I should be able to try turning it in both directions with a bit of force and not be worried about it breaking on me.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

smearin said:


> I might have chosen the wrong thread (recent mezzer setup) with this question, so apologies for the spam if so.
> 
> Recently pulled off the lowers to change the travel.
> Now when I go to turn the rebound knob it won't move like normal? Hayes replied to an email asking if it was screwed on too tight. I get it, stupid consumer, but no. It won't even turn when installed on the shaft (ie. slotted on over the hex end) but not screwed in. While it seems like it should be able to turn the rebound from there.
> ...


Do you think you overtightened the knob in the fast position (undoing the knob screw) or in the slow position (tighening the knob screw)?


----------



## smearin (May 3, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Do you think you overtightened the knob in the fast position (undoing the knob screw) or in the slow position (tighening the knob screw)?


If I overtightened I expect it might have been the slow position. Assuming righty-tighty direction viewed from the bottom. But in hindsight I really should have written it down... Just didn't occur to me that it could be an issue.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

woodyak said:


> Getting so sick of the Fox36 CSU creak and now top out clunk and I'm looking into the Mezzer and have a couple of questions.
> 
> CSU creak, top out clunk, bushing play, etc > How are the Mezzers holding up with this stuff?
> For my 36's I just swap out the bath oil and seals twice a year and I'm pretty much done. Maybe do the damper every other year. How's the annual maintenance on these puppies?
> ...


For CSU creaks, there have been a few reports. Its tough to say what the failure rate is vs Fox/RS as there are less Mezzers in the wild. I will say that Manitou service is excellent if you do have issues.

Annual maintenance is comparable, Mezzer does have an option to just add some bath oil at 25hrs, so you only need to drop the lowers every 50hrs.
Full service is recommended every 200hrs.

Changing the damper depends on your weight, Dougal do you have a recommended weight for when someone should swap/remove one of the compression shims?

I would do Pro, or the expert with the IRT added.

If you are in the US, QBP (one of the distributors) is showing an ETA for stock on 6/25


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I thought the newest version of the forks came with a "lighter" tune that should work well for someone who is 160. I am in the same boat of just waiting for one to show up. Hopefully when QBP gets them Hayes also gets them and sends out mine.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

cassieno said:


> I thought the newest version of the forks came with a "lighter" tune that should work well for someone who is 160. I am in the same boat of just waiting for one to show up. Hopefully when QBP gets them Hayes also gets them and sends out mine.


lighter tune was for rebound only on '21 forks.

This is from the Mezzer owners thread CCS86 setup.
*Damper Tuning:*

I would recommend starting with damping adjusters wide open, or close to it, and adding damping in as needed
MY21 forks reportedly have a lighter rebound tune
Compression stack:
8 x 17.5 x 0.1 ←[Dougal replaced with a 12mm, others remove it completely]
8 x 17.5 x 0.1
8 x 20 x 0.1

Rebound stack:
13 x 6 x 0.1
9 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1
13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Remove for MY21 tune
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
8.5 x 6 x 0.2
12 x 6 x 1.0


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

hugelick said:


> For CSU creaks, there have been a few reports. Its tough to say what the failure rate is vs Fox/RS as there are less Mezzers in the wild. I will say that Manitou service is excellent if you do have issues.
> 
> Annual maintenance is comparable, Mezzer does have an option to just add some bath oil at 25hrs, so you only need to drop the lowers every 50hrs.
> Full service is recommended every 200hrs.
> ...


Generally speaking.
90+ kg (total rider & gear weight) good on stock comp stack.
70-90kg run the 12mm shim.
Sub 70kg run just one 17.5mm shim.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

hugelick said:


> For CSU creaks, there have been a few reports. Its tough to say what the failure rate is vs Fox/RS as there are less Mezzers in the wild. I will say that Manitou service is excellent if you do have issues.
> 
> Annual maintenance is comparable, Mezzer does have an option to just add some bath oil at 25hrs, so you only need to drop the lowers every 50hrs.
> Full service is recommended every 200hrs.
> ...


Thanks for the response. I did finally find a "lightly used" Mezzer Pro and I should get it this weekend! I'll have to hunt down the deets on the damper change as I'm just above 70kg. Can't wait to give her a go.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

woodyak said:


> Thanks for the response. I did finally find a "lightly used" Mezzer Pro and I should get it this weekend! I'll have to hunt down the deets on the damper change as I'm just above 70kg. Can't wait to give her a go.


FWIW, I'm about the same weight as you and am getting on fine with the stock damper configuration. I may eventually try the 12 mm shim when I get around to the damper service interval.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I had an interesting experience lately. I was out on a road trip and rode a new area to me with steep, rocky descents which was much different from my usual steep roots. I came into a steep rock garden at good clip where line choice was critical to not fly off the trail or hit a boulder. It was one of those "oh ****" moments where you fear the worst. I quickly pointed the bike down the only decent line through it and...I nailed it. No deflections. No bouncing. No harshness. It was unbelievably smooth and on-target. The bike went exactly where it needed to go. The fork stiffness, spring rate, and damping worked perfectly together to manage that tricky situation.

This was with alloy and not carbon rims too.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Curveball said:


> I had an interesting experience lately. I was out on a road trip and rode a new area to me with steep, rocky descents which was much different from my usual steep roots. I came into a steep rock garden at good clip where line choice was critical to not fly off the trail or hit a boulder. It was one of those "oh ****" moments where you fear the worst. I quickly pointed the bike down the only decent line through it and...I nailed it. No deflections. No bouncing. No harshness. It was unbelievably smooth and on-target. The bike went exactly where it needed to go. The fork stiffness, spring rate, and damping worked perfectly together to manage that tricky situation.
> 
> This was with alloy and not carbon rims too.


That situation sounds exactly like what you want good suspension to do. Save your ass when faced with death!


----------



## smearin (May 3, 2021)

smearin said:


> If I overtightened I expect it might have been the slow position. Assuming righty-tighty direction viewed from the bottom. But in hindsight I really should have written it down... Just didn't occur to me that it could be an issue.


Quoted for context.

Thankfully I pulled off the lowers again today and was able to loosen the stuck rebound knob. It had been twisting the whole damper shaft when I turned it each direction before.

Turns out I had tightened it too far to the left, not the right. I expect what happened was that I undid the rebound knob retaining screw without holding the knob steady and I turned the knob too far with the 2mm Allen key while doing so.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Has someone tried and can recommend which 29tire that resembles the qualities of a magic mary I could run in the 27.5 mezzer? 

Because I found out the 29*2.35 Mary just touches slightly the bridge. So a tire that builds a tad smaller, could fit. 

I consider that becazse I want to go mullet. But if you go mullet from a 650 b bike a*29 er fork with the larger wheel changes geometry too much, whereas if you can run a fitting tire in your 650 b fork it wouldn't change too much when you compensate with lowering front travel by 1cm. 

Otherwise I'd have to sell the frame, get a 29 er and buy a 29er casting for the mezzer. Much more effort and cost


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Has someone tried and can recommend which 29tire that resembles the qualities of a magic mary I could run in the 27.5 mezzer?
> 
> Because I found out the 29*2.35 Mary just touches slightly the bridge. So a tire that builds a tad smaller, could fit.
> 
> ...


You're playing with fire........


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> You're playing with fire........


But if I take a tire which is not larger than the outer diameter of the fender there an be not contact. Otherwise the crown would smash on the fender, no?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> But if I take a tire which is not larger than the outer diameter of the fender there an be not contact. Otherwise the crown would smash on the fender, no?


Wheel flex is a real thing and it's crown clearance that you need to be concerned about.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Wheel flex is a real thing and it's crown clearance that you need to be concerned about.


Then how easy is it to get hold of the 29er casting then?


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

wrong thread


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Then how easy is it to get hold of the 29er casting then?


Last I looked Manitou had plenty in the USA. That was several months ago though. P/N in here: Mezzer 29" Matte Black Fork Lowers (Manitou) | Shockcraft


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Last I looked Manitou had plenty in the USA. That was several months ago though. P/N in here: Mezzer 29" Matte Black Fork Lowers (Manitou) | Shockcraft


Thank you very much


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Let us know how your back to back testing goes. My suspicion is you're running the Mezzer higher and firmer than you need to.


Your suspicion may be correct. The Lyrik does move noticably more easy to start with and does feel a touch lower in front (it is 170mm vs 180mm and then the dead travel at top out of the Debonair B1 spring.) I actually had to stop a few minutes in on the first ride and make sure the air pressures were right as while sitting and pedaling, it moves a lot more. Once in the attack position though, the Lyrik has more support, just like I remembered it.

Dropping main a small amount and upping the IRT might make it a better match to what I want with the Mezzer. Hard to put the Mezzer back on to try it though as the modded Lyrik just works better currently.


----------



## Gantz75 (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi.
Question to you who knows... 
Is Rockshox 0w30 OK as lower leg oil on Mezzer? 


Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Gantz75 said:


> Hi.
> Question to you who knows...
> Is Rockshox 0w30 OK as lower leg oil on Mezzer?
> 
> Skickat från min J9210 via Tapatalk


Yes. There are better, but it will work just fine.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Anyone have an update on when 2021 Mezzers will be available?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

irck said:


> Anyone have an update on when 2021 Mezzers will be available?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bike24 has them in stock.

Or at least they did a few weeks ago.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Bike24 has them in stock.
> 
> Or at least they did a few weeks ago.


Cheers. Looks like they're out of black 29 44mm offset.

I was more meaning as to when the next production run would be released to distributors for sale.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

I got a manitou Mezzer on watch from bike shop. But they can’t place order until it’s available which watch said today but then wasn’t available to purchase. So anyone with intel spill! Worst case scenario I may have to order a used rock show fork from eBay for my new bike.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

stumpynerd said:


> I got a manitou Mezzer on watch from bike shop. But they can't place order until it's available which watch said today but then wasn't available to purchase. So anyone with intel spill! Worst case scenario I may have to order a used rock show fork from eBay for my new bike.


We're all waiting for new stock. Supply chains are empty worldwide in all industries.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

And does someone already have ride experience with the mezzer expert and can give a comparison to the pro or rock shox high end offerings?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

mike156 said:


> Your suspicion may be correct. The Lyrik does move noticably more easy to start with and does feel a touch lower in front (it is 170mm vs 180mm and then the dead travel at top out of the Debonair B1 spring.) I actually had to stop a few minutes in on the first ride and make sure the air pressures were right as while sitting and pedaling, it moves a lot more. Once in the attack position though, the Lyrik has more support, just like I remembered it.
> 
> Dropping main a small amount and upping the IRT might make it a better match to what I want with the Mezzer. Hard to put the Mezzer back on to try it though as the modded Lyrik just works better currently.


Modded? 
With which parts is the lyrik set up?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> And does someone already have ride experience with the mezzer expert and can give a comparison to the pro or rock shox high end offerings?


I have expert (haven't ridden pro) with IRT, and am coming from a Pike Ultimate RC2. I also have a Yari with Avalanche hybrid coil.

Expert is way better than Pike RC2 - loads stiffer, noticeably better midstroke support without harshness on big hits. I think the IRT makes a huge difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

johnsogr said:


> I have expert (haven't ridden pro) with IRT, and am coming from a Pike Ultimate RC2. I also have a Yari with Avalanche hybrid coil.
> 
> Expert is way better than Pike RC2 - loads stiffer, noticeably better midstroke support without harshness on big hits. I think the IRT makes a huge difference.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks 

How does it compare to the avalanche yari?

What's your riding weight? What pressure are you using on the Mezzer?

Oren

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

I’m 170 kitted, riding at 160, 40/62 for 25% sag, position 3 or 4 (from open) on the compression, -5 rebound.

It’s considerably more poppy than the Yarilanche. The Yari rides much more coil like, more damped and stable, but perhaps just a bit less fun? They’re both fantastic in their own ways, but if I had to choose one, probably the Yarilanche.

Hope that helps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

stumpynerd said:


> I got a manitou Mezzer on watch from bike shop. But they can't place order until it's available which watch said today but then wasn't available to purchase. So anyone with intel spill! Worst case scenario I may have to order a used rock show fork from eBay for my new bike.


I ordered mine from Dirt Merchant a few weeks back, in the popular 29/44 spec.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

johnsogr said:


> I'm 170 kitted, riding at 160, 40/62 for 25% sag, position 3 or 4 (from open) on the compression, -5 rebound.
> 
> It's considerably more poppy than the Yarilanche. The Yari rides much more coil like, more damped and stable, but perhaps just a bit less fun? They're both fantastic in their own ways, but if I had to choose one, probably the Yarilanche.
> 
> ...


Which features did you add to the avalanche damoer and which air spring do you use in the yari?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Which features did you add to the avalanche damoer and which air spring do you use in the yari?


B1 air spring, hybrid coil w/ HSB/FvAT. It's a lot of compression damping for someone that rides like me, so I backed off quite a bit and now love it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

johnsogr said:


> B1 air spring, hybrid coil w/ HSB/FvAT. It's a lot of compression damping for someone that rides like me, so I backed off quite a bit and now love it
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok,, then this fork has cost a few more bugs than the mezzer and you really invested in the best possible tuning....how do you like the small bump sensitivity and buzz absorption?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Ok,, then this fork has cost a few more bugs than the mezzer and you really invested in the best possible tuning....how do you like the small bump sensitivity and buzz absorption?


Yea the Yari all in probably $1300,and I snagged the expert for $650, so Expert is way better value.

Small bump goes to Yari, and it's much more planted than the Expert - absorbs and tracks ground.

Expert is so stout though, and rides really high in the travel, which I love.

When I first started down the Avalanche road, I had a Secus on a Pike and really liked it, but Craig said pairing a Secus and his damper was a bad idea, too soft. I disagree though now that I have one, I think it would be a excellent pairing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> Small bump goes to Yari, and it's much more planted than the Expert - absorbs and tracks ground.
> 
> Expert is so stout though, and rides really high in the travel, which I love.


If your Mezzer rides higher and doesn't have as much small bump compliance, it sounds like you need to lower the main pressure.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> If your Mezzer rides higher and doesn't have as much small bump compliance, it sounds like you need to lower the main pressure.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Maybe, but 25% sag is pretty generous, and honestly, the difference is very small.

I'm also often running the compression at position 4, so could lessen that.

I also burnished the Yari bushings and got SKF seals so that helps. Need to get a 37.1 mm head for the Mezzer&#8230;

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

johnsogr said:


> Maybe, but 25% sag is pretty generous, and honestly, the difference is very small.
> 
> I'm also often running the compression at position 4, so could lessen that.
> 
> ...


Burnishing brings the world. My mezzer already was one of the smooth examples but friction tuning made a huge noticeable difference and performance gain. Smoothest fork I ever had and even after my ERA has been ridden in, they are similar sensitive and lacking in stick slip.... Perhaps my mezzer could even have the edge there. 
Era damping is a bit more supportive. I think that could be solved by some shim tuning of the mezzer damper


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

johnsogr said:


> Maybe, but 25% sag is pretty generous, and honestly, the difference is very small.
> 
> I'm also often running the compression at position 4, so could lessen that.
> 
> ...


sag number isn't relevant - its only ride height


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Can anyone help - I am only showing about 120mm of travel on my Mezzer which is set to 150. I have tried re-inflating it with either chamber first, but there is no change.
It had been fine until I changed oil.

thanks


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

dtheo said:


> Can anyone help - I am only showing about 120mm of travel on my Mezzer which is set to 150. I have tried re-inflating it with either chamber first, but there is no change.
> It had been fine until I changed oil.
> 
> thanks


Deflate it totally again. Fill IRT first. Connect pump to bottom valve making sure it is totally screwed on then extend the fork fully by hand. You have to ensure the fork is completely extended and unweighted then you can fill the main chamber.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Burnishing brings the world. My mezzer already was one of the smooth examples but friction tuning made a huge noticeable difference and performance gain. Smoothest fork I ever had and even after my ERA has been ridden in, they are similar sensitive and lacking in stick slip.... Perhaps my mezzer could even have the edge there.
> Era damping is a bit more supportive. I think that could be solved by some shim tuning of the mezzer damper


The Mezzer stock has the max amount of compression damping that most 80kg riders can use. If you shim it up for more compression damping than your weight and strength dictate you'll have issues with the fork kicking on square edge impacts, deflecting off bumps, running rough at speed and generally beating you up.

Some owners of other forks may identify with that description.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Hey guys

Just to confirm- 

Reverb bleed kit works for the mc2 damper? m5 fittings


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Just to confirm-
> 
> Reverb bleed kit works for the mc2 damper? m5 fittings


Yes. Fits and works great.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

Actually, what worked was filling the mains then the IRT. You can see the travel extend when filling mains first.



springs said:


> Deflate it totally again. Fill IRT first. Connect pump to bottom valve making sure it is totally screwed on then extend the fork fully by hand. You have to ensure the fork is completely extended and unweighted then you can fill the main chamber.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

dtheo said:


> Actually, what worked was filling the mains then the IRT. You can see the travel extend when filling mains first.


That's not good practice. You can end up with a partially collapsed IRT, doing it that way.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris71294 (Nov 19, 2020)

I changed the travel on my Mezzer Pro from 180 to 160 following this video:






I've had small amounts of oil leaking from my rebound knob since making the change. The rebound knob functions correctly, I feel all of the clicks. I do not believe it was over or under tightened.

Any advice on what could be the potential issue would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

not like I have a choice - the other way didn't work.
Do you think my fork's messed up? 
When it is totally deflated I can pull it to full travel but it comes right back when I let go so there is some force (air side or damper??) doing that but is that normal?



CCS86 said:


> That's not good practice. You can end up with a partially collapsed IRT, doing it that way.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

dtheo said:


> not like I have a choice - the other way didn't work.
> Do you think my fork's messed up?
> When it is totally deflated I can pull it to full travel but it comes right back when I let go so there is some force (air side or damper??) doing that but is that normal?


It sounds like the equalization port between main and negative is blocked up. I would connect the pump to the main valve (make sure it is screwed all the way in), put the bike on the ground and push the fork to bottom out repeatedly. Then put it back on the stand and see if it comes to the full top out position.

I can't think of any reason why filling the main with a deflated IRT could help in any way. Sounds like a coincidence.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## reo-fahrer (Jan 9, 2021)

dtheo said:


> Actually, what worked was filling the mains then the IRT. You can see the travel extend when filling mains first.


besides what @CCS86 already wrote: with the way the air spring is build, you could adjust travel as you like when the pump is attached to the main air valve. (some guy from mtb-news.de build a "travel air cap", basically a cap with an airtight movable pin, so you could depress the valve stem in the main valve without loosing any air pressure. And the cap could stay on permanently)
And no "travel extends when pressurizing the main spring" as it would normally happen with all other forks.


----------



## Notorious_BIL (Nov 14, 2004)

Chris71294 said:


> I've had small amounts of oil leaking from my rebound knob since making the change. The rebound knob functions correctly, I feel all of the clicks. I do not believe it was over or under tightened.
> 
> Any advice on what could be the potential issue would be greatly appreciated.


I'm no expert, but FWIW I had a similar experience and here's what I did...

I used a 14 mm wrench on the nut below the knob, to tighten it a bit more. I say "bit" intentionally, b/c I think the threads are plastic so you don't want to strip it. While tightening I held the piston (so it doesn't turn) w/ either an 8 mm hex (leg 1) or 10 mm socket (leg 2). I don't recall which leg requires the hex vs the socket.

Then I dried it, rode around a bit, and re-checked to make sure it's no longer leaking.

I had originally tightened it to the torque spec (4 nm I think) but maybe my wrench is off.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dtheo said:


> not like I have a choice - the other way didn't work.
> Do you think my fork's messed up?
> When it is totally deflated I can pull it to full travel but it comes right back when I let go so there is some force (air side or damper??) doing that but is that normal?


The fork still has some extension force with the pump attached correctly, this is because you've still got a 10mm shaft for the internal pressure to act on.

If you are unsure if the pump is connecting the chambers correctly, fully compress the fork and let it extend with the pump attached. If you can do that you're good. If you can't it's not equalising.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

that worked - thanks!



CCS86 said:


> It sounds like the equalization port between main and negative is blocked up. I would connect the pump to the main valve (make sure it is screwed all the way in), put the bike on the ground and push the fork to bottom out repeatedly. Then put it back on the stand and see if it comes to the full top out position.
> 
> I can't think of any reason why filling the main with a deflated IRT could help in any way. Sounds like a coincidence.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Is there actually a way to convert a mezzer to coil?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Is there actually a way to convert a mezzer to coil?


No-one has done it yet that I know of. I do have a 35 lb/in Nixon spring in my collection that could fit inside but I've not gone further than that.


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Well the impossible fork to get is now available. I got a call from bike shop and my Mezzer fork should be in next week. Check out local bike shop to see if they can order from qbp or bti. There also may be seeing some trickling in online.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

So I’ve had my Mezzer for about 6 months now and wanted to give a little comparison for people interested (even though this forum already has so much great info).

In the last year I’ve also owned a 2021 Lyrik ultimate (b2 and c1 airsprings), Zeb ultimate and Fox 38 Performance elite. I weigh about ~175lbs geared up and am a fairly aggressive rider. I live in BC, Canada. All forks were set up on a 2020 Stumpjumper Evo at 160mm and 29” wheels. They were all owned at different times so I don’t have much back to back riding time on them. But all have been ridden on a variety of trails as well as bike park laps.

The short story is that the Mezzer has been my favourite out of all of them. With the 38 in second place, and the lyrik and Zeb tied for 3rd (depends on your terrain/trails). If you want to read why, the novel is below. 

So I’ll start off with what I liked and didn’t about all the other forks. First up, the 38. It is noticeably heavier than the other forks and I am not a weight weenie. The linear feel of the airspring was nice and it has a very calm feeling on moderately rough trails. As speeds increase though, it lacked support without increasing spring rate, which surprisingly didn’t affect small bump much, but did feel harsh on medium sized hits. Stiffness felt similar to the Mezzer. The other thing is the fork did feel a little dead, it liked to stay planted rather plan pop over things. I had the rebound wide open I’m not sure if this was due to weight or damping (maybe both).

Next is the Zeb. This thing is STIFF. Like wow. I did use torque caps, and for my it was overkill unless I was going flat out at the bike park. Small bump was good at high speed (think slightly blown out/Rocky fire road) but not great trail speed. Midstroke support sucked honestly, first 1/3 of the stroke is supportive, but the middle 1/3 seems to move through the travel too easily before an aggressive ramp up in the last 1/3. Fork felt good at the bike park, and when hitting big g outs at the bottom of rock faces and stuff but really struggled to find a comfortable and supportive set up for all riding. This fork is very active and definitely have a poppy feeling (although I find rockshox rebound to feel a little pogo like and uncontrolled)

Then the Lyrik. This was my first high end fork and it was good all around. A little divey but not as much so as the Zeb in the middle 1/3. But also the least stiff out of all the forks mentioned, even with torque caps.

Lastly, the Mezzer. It is a 2021 Mezzer LE, Set up at 50psi main, 82psi irt, 1-2 clicks from open on HSC and 3-5 clicks from open on LCS, rebound is wide open. A huge thing about the Mezzer is it feels like the first fork I can add compression damping without getting genuine harshness (yes it adds more feedback to the hands but it’s not harsh like how fox/Rockshox forks get). Next is the support, oh my goodness this fork stands up so well in its travel. I know that’s obvious and probably why you’re even looking at this fork and reading through this forum but it’s very very impressive. It did take me quite a while to get it set up how I liked but it’s so worth it, I’ve always wanted a fork that is this supportive. I will say it’s not the most sensitive off the top but that’s because running a pretty supportive set up, so the small bump is still good, just not amazing. When running the fork softer (main pressure and irt) the small bump was better. All in all I’m just so impressed with how controlled the fork feels, It never does anything weird, it feels so constant through its stroke, has a very connected feel and lets you know exactly how much pressure you’re putting into the front tire and all of this allows me to ride harder and faster. It’s a good mix between planted and poppy, although I do wish I could run the rebound a little faster at times. Planning to try the 12mm shim mod on the compression stack in the future just to see what it’s like and maybe a lighter rebound tune as well.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

kapolczer said:


> So I've had my Mezzer for about 6 months now and wanted to give a little comparison for people interested (even though this forum already has so much great info).
> 
> In the last year I've also owned a 2021 Lyrik ultimate (b2 and c1 airsprings), Zeb ultimate and Fox 38 Performance elite. I weigh about ~175lbs geared up and am a fairly aggressive rider. I live in BC, Canada. All forks were set up on a 2020 Stumpjumper Evo at 160mm and 29" wheels. They were all owned at different times so I don't have much back to back riding time on them. But all have been ridden on a variety of trails as well as bike park laps.
> 
> ...


Recently got a F38 PE on a new bike and have similar finding. Small bump is fantastic - better than I could get the Mezzer. It feels heavy and more difficult to "pop" even though rebound feels right, but could be the bike as well which is longer,slacker, etc. It also feels a tad bit less supportive then how I have my mezzer setup, which was on the more linear side of things. Don't get me wrong - it's a great fork (as is the Mezzer). Just a bit different feel. I do intend to swap the mezzer over to try out a some point to do more of a direct comparison, but that's on a hardtail atm.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

The squeaking hexlock axle bolt assembly (when removing/installing wheel) is driving me nuts. Minor gripe is the grand scheme of things but still...

Is that assembly typically dry and squeaky? Is my fork missing something like a delrin washer? Exploded view shows a washer of some sort inside but without proper pin spanners I can't get in there to look or grease it.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> The squeaking hexlock axle bolt assembly (when removing/installing wheel) is driving me nuts. Minor gripe is the grand scheme of things but still...
> 
> Is that assembly typically dry and squeaky? Is my fork missing something like a delrin washer? Exploded view shows a washer of some sort inside but without proper pin spanners I can't get in there to look or grease it.


I grease them. A dab inside the axle threads helps a lot. Removing the cap, taking out the captive bolt and lubing the thrust faces does the rest.
Keep in mind when greased you don't need to tighten it as much. Greased bolts are better at transferring torque into clamp load.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I grease them. A dab inside the axle threads helps a lot. Removing the cap, taking out the captive bolt and lubing the thrust faces does the rest.
> Keep in mind when greased you don't need to tighten it as much. Greased bolts are better at transferring torque into clamp load.


Ok, it sounds like it's not missing anything then... and I hear you on the wet torque.

The squeak is definitely coming from the thrust surfaces. Guess I'll just need to get creative with a spanner alternative to remove the cap that appears to be cranked down dry.


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

It is a pity. Travel adjustement without an issue and now during serivice the 8mm socket damaged the end of the air spring. Can this part be ordered and changed seperately or do I need to order the full air spring?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Lutsch said:


> It is a pity. Travel adjustement without an issue and now during serivice the 8mm socket damaged the end of the air spring. Can this part be ordered and changed seperately or do I need to order the full air spring?
> View attachment 1937484


If you cannot order it, DZ Suspension Germany can make you this part, I suppose, as he already made one for himself at the same issu


----------



## Lutsch (Jun 15, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> If you cannot order it, DZ Suspension Germany can make you this part, I suppose, as he already made one for himself at the same issu


I already wrote him and he mentioned I probably need the full air spring. He does not mentioned another solution but currently waiting for answer if he can order the stuff (which seems to be crazy expensive...). I guess I give him a call on Monday.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

For those chasing a little more small bump sensitivity I found that this helps greatly. Deflate both main and IRT chambers. Completely remove IRT assembly. Inject a small amount of bath oil into the top of the fork leg. Replace IRT and inflate both chambers as per normal.
That's it. The addition of a little oil on top is helping that quad seal let go much easier and the reduction in friction is enough that it can be felt on the trail.


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

springs said:


> For those chasing a little more small bump sensitivity I found that this helps greatly. Deflate both main and IRT chambers. Completely remove IRT assembly. Inject a small amount of bath oil into the top of the fork leg. Replace IRT and inflate both chambers as per normal.
> That's it. The addition of a little oil on top is helping that quad seal let go much easier and the reduction in friction is enough that it can be felt on the trail.


I can vouch for this (it's part of the RS service, so I did it on my Mezzer). I also put a very small amount on top of the IRT.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

How much is a 'little' in this case?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> How much is a 'little' in this case?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Maybe 1 mL on IRT? I think I did 3 mL on top of the main air spring

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

johnsogr said:


> I can vouch for this (it's part of the RS service, so I did it on my Mezzer). I also put a very small amount on top of the IRT.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same, that is why I already liked it in Stock and it was more sensitive than some said. Now with friction tuning from DZ by polishing and burnishing it is even more noticeable slippery and I cannot really feel a difference to the Era


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Who is DZ? Diaz?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> Who is DZ? Diaz?


As I write above DZ Suspension. Look it up


Dougal said:


> No-one has done it yet that I know of. I do have a 35 lb/in Nixon spring in my collection that could fit inside but I've not gone further than that.


I could use the rxdlf 36 or marzocchi Z1 springs, no?

But what would I have to to with the rest of the the air spring besides seal of the piston. Can I remove the seal of the shaft to the lower spring assembly?

I have some top out springs from other old air springs lying around in my workshop


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Would someone be able to point me to how the IRT works and affects on pressure or offer any tips? The way I understand it helps with mid and end stroke. The main chamber is pretty much used for setting sag after you filled up the IRT first. I’m about 200lbs and have about 40psi in main chamber for 30% sag. Is this too much sag? Running 30% sag in rear. Then I use the IRT to tune bottom out for ride and mid support. Last ride I did I found I was riding a bit high in front and not using up all the travel for steep rocky decent. I took out some pressure in the IRT and that seemed to help. While I left the main chamber the same psi at 40. 

Let me know if I am on the right track or any other tips.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

40 psi sounds very low. I am 180lb and i am running 55/85. 180mm travel


What are your damper settings?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

stumpynerd said:


> Would someone be able to point me to how the IRT works and affects on pressure or offer any tips? The way I understand it helps with mid and end stroke. The main chamber is pretty much used for setting sag after you filled up the IRT first. I'm about 200lbs and have about 40psi in main chamber for 30% sag. Is this too much sag? Running 30% sag in rear. Then I use the IRT to tune bottom out for ride and mid support. Last ride I did I found I was riding a bit high in front and not using up all the travel for steep rocky decent. I took out some pressure in the IRT and that seemed to help. While I left the main chamber the same psi at 40.
> 
> Let me know if I am on the right track or any other tips.


30% is a bit much for me, I shoot for closer to 25%. I then have my IRT 1.55x higher than the main, I like that feeling. I'm running 160 mm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

stumpynerd said:


> Would someone be able to point me to how the IRT works and affects on pressure or offer any tips? The way I understand it helps with mid and end stroke. The main chamber is pretty much used for setting sag after you filled up the IRT first. I'm about 200lbs and have about 40psi in main chamber for 30% sag. Is this too much sag? Running 30% sag in rear. Then I use the IRT to tune bottom out for ride and mid support. Last ride I did I found I was riding a bit high in front and not using up all the travel for steep rocky decent. I took out some pressure in the IRT and that seemed to help. While I left the main chamber the same psi at 40.
> 
> Let me know if I am on the right track or any other tips.


Set rear sag at 30% seated. Front sag should be 20-22% sag standing.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Gotcha. I’m running rebound at 4 from open high speed 1 and low speed 2 from open. Just bumped up sag to 25% which is what came out to manual specs for my weight at about 200lbs. Feels great and stiff but supple on rocks. Way better than pike. So how would you guys explain IRT and when would I adjust that? What about main chamber?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> Set rear sag at 30% seated. Front sag should be 20-22% sag standing.


No it shouldn't. You can't tune suspension by sag.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

POAH said:


> No it shouldn't. You can't tune suspension by sag.


You do you.

The gentleman can choose to take my advise, or not.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

stumpynerd said:


> Gotcha. I'm running rebound at 4 from open high speed 1 and low speed 2 from open. Just bumped up sag to 25% which is what came out to manual specs for my weight at about 200lbs. Feels great and stiff but supple on rocks. Way better than pike. So how would you guys explain IRT and when would I adjust that? What about main chamber?


Try opening the rebound a few more clicks. In the parking lot, mine felt right at about 3 from closed. On the trail tuning it, I ended up at 7 from closed and run higher pressures than you. It feels way to fast in a bounce on it test, but stays stuck to the ground when riding.


----------



## smearin (May 3, 2021)

Suns_PSD said:


> You do you.


100%. I tune mine based on the lunar cycle. Bump the IRT down 5% on a full moon, because the extra gravitational pull offsets the more linear spring rate.



stumpynerd said:


> So how would you guys explain IRT and when would I adjust that? What about main chamber?


I'd just go with Manitou settings to start with and ride it a while, or follow a basic suspension setup guide. Set main chamber like normal air spring for forks, but remember as it ramps up it will start to push on the IRT. Use IRT pressure to adjust progression (like tokens in other forks).

But also search this thread. So many opinions. And check out the Mezzer user setups doc for some ideas as well.








Mezzer User Setups


Setup Guide & Pressure Calc Manitou Setup Guide,Travel,140mm 140mm,150mm,160mm,170mm,180mm lbs,kg,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT 300,136,110,152,105,141,101,137,92,132,88,120,150mm 260,118,96,134,91,125,87,121,80,116,76,106,160mm 220,100,82,116,77,109,73,105,68,100,64,92,170mm 200,91




docs.google.com


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> You do you.
> 
> The gentleman can choose to take my advise, or not.


ya don't - sag is only ride height. I couldn't even tell you what my sag is


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> For those chasing a little more small bump sensitivity I found that this helps greatly. Deflate both main and IRT chambers. Completely remove IRT assembly. Inject a small amount of bath oil into the top of the fork leg. Replace IRT and inflate both chambers as per normal.
> That's it. The addition of a little oil on top is helping that quad seal let go much easier and the reduction in friction is enough that it can be felt on the trail.


Another thing you can try. Downsize the main air-spring quad-ring. By using a size smaller it stretches the seal a little thinner. Reducing squeeze on the seal and friction.
If you go too far you'll notice the fork losing height as air leaks positive-negative in the same way as if your seal is wearing out.

The reason I don't like oil as air chamber lube is it keeps migrating down into the negative chamber.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Another thing you can try. Downsize the main air-spring quad-ring. By using a size smaller it stretches the seal a little thinner. Reducing squeeze on the seal and friction.
> If you go too far you'll notice the fork losing height as air leaks positive-negative in the same way as if your seal is wearing out.
> 
> The reason I don't like oil as air chamber lube is it keeps migrating down into the negative chamber.


Any idea what would be a good size to try? Would be willing to play with it to try to get a little better small bump. Since the Mezzer doesn't have an equalizing dimple would the oil still migrate? What about using a couple CCs of Fox Float to just coat the walls? Been super happy with the fork so far but small bump could still be a little better imo, burnishing the bushings made a big difference though, more than I thought it would.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

bansaiman said:


> Is there actually a way to convert a mezzer to coil?


Yup, been running my mezzer with a coil for a while now


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

DZ Suspension germa


naturaltalent said:


> Yup, been running my mezzer with a coil for a while now


A suspension tuner will make a coil assembly for me, too.
Did you make a special assembly as well or only take the dealings out if the air spring?

is it noticeable more sensitive than the irt equipped air and how does it compare in other qualities while riding beside being less dependent on environment temperature?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

bansaiman said:


> is it noticeable more sensitive than the irt equipped air and how does it compare in other qualities while riding beside being less dependent on environment temperature?


Temperature should have little effect on an air spring. Changes in pressure are governed by the ideal gas law pv=nrt. Temperature is measured in kevlin, so a change in temperature from 30c to 10c would only change the spring pressure about 6 percent ((303-283)/303=.06). Damper oil has a much greater change in viscosity with temperature, which will be primarily felt in the low speed as that is controlled by a needle and orifice where oil viscosity makes a large difference. High speed is controlled by the shim stack, where oil viscosity changes make little difference.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> Temperature should have little effect on an air spring. Changes in pressure are governed by the ideal gas law pv=nrt. Temperature is measured in kevlin, so a change in temperature from 30c to 10c would only change the spring pressure about 6 percent ((303-283)/303=.06). Damper oil has a much greater change in viscosity with temperature, which will be primarily felt in the low speed as that is controlled by a needle and orifice where oil viscosity makes a large difference. High speed is controlled by the shim stack, where oil viscosity changes make little difference.


True, but worth mentioning that 6% (even in the main chamber) is ~3psi and the Mezzer is sensitive enough for this to be a noticeable difference.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> True, but worth mentioning that 6% (even in the main chamber) is ~3psi and the Mezzer is sensitive enough for this to be a noticeable difference.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


But as temp goes up and the pressure rises, dampening decreases as oil viscosity drops, offsetting the change in compression from the air spring. Now how much of an offset and which is more dominant is unknown and would require a fork dyno, temperature controlled room, and a boatload of time to establish.


----------



## Kiwibaconator (Jul 7, 2021)

Cary said:


> But as temp goes up and the pressure rises, dampening decreases as oil viscosity drops, offsetting the change in compression from the air spring. Now how much of an offset and which is more dominant is unknown and would require a fork dyno, temperature controlled room, and a boatload of time to establish.


dam*ping*.

Temperature changes that can be perceived by humans primarily affect rebound forces through orifices. During the compression cycle there's no perceptible difference until you're at extreme temperatures.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Any idea what would be a good size to try? Would be willing to play with it to try to get a little better small bump. Since the Mezzer doesn't have an equalizing dimple would the oil still migrate? What about using a couple CCs of Fox Float to just coat the walls? Been super happy with the fork so far but small bump could still be a little better imo, burnishing the bushings made a big difference though, more than I thought it would.


Stock air spring quad-ring is a -215 size. First step down would be a -214.

Yes oil migrates past air seals. Basically it leaves a fine film behind on every stroke that can't be wiped off. Over enough strokes with the help of gravity this moves all the oil down to the negative chamber.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kiwibaconator said:


> dam*ping*.
> 
> Temperature changes that can be perceived by humans primarily affect rebound forces through orifices. During the compression cycle there's no perceptible difference until you're at extreme temperatures.


Low speed compression has a significant effect. In a fork it's getting cold that causes the issues. It's very hard to get a fork damper hot.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Stock air spring quad-ring is a -215 size. First step down would be a -214.
> 
> Yes oil migrates past air seals. Basically it leaves a fine film behind on every stroke that can't be wiped off. Over enough strokes with the help of gravity this moves all the oil down to the negative chamber.


Perfect, thanks, I just ordered a couple -214 to try.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Perfect, thanks, I just ordered a couple -214 to try.


Keep us posted

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

I will for sure but it might be like 4-5 weeks before I get to try it, just too damn hot here in Phoenix right now but I'm going to Idaho next month so I'll get some riding there for sure


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

bansaiman said:


> DZ Suspension germa
> 
> A suspension tuner will make a coil assembly for me, too.
> Did you make a special assembly as well or only take the dealings out if the air spring?
> ...


I modified a few things inside the leg to fit the coil. Still uses the stock irt air cap so you can't tell its a coil from the outside. Feels great, with two less dynamic seals there is less stiction. I changed the compression and rebound tune at the same time i put the coil in so I can't really provide a direct comparison to stock damping with air vs coil. Its a smooth bump eating monster right now though.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

naturaltalent said:


> I modified a few things inside the leg to fit the coil. Still uses the stock irt air cap so you can't tell its a coil from the outside. Feels great, with two less dynamic seals there is less stiction. I changed the compression and rebound tune at the same time i put the coil in so I can't really provide a direct comparison to stock damping with air vs coil. Its a smooth bump eating monster right now though.


Of course you did some changes in general. But please tell, besides weight and stiction, what the differences are right now. What does it do better / worse than the stock mezzer?


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

what would happen if you put a coil in the main chamber and kept the IRT full of air?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

spo0n said:


> what would happen if you put a coil in the main chamber and kept the IRT full of air?


IRT destroyed


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Anybody here been able to get Manitou to warranty the inadequate / not fit for use (aka, shitty) mud guards that comes with the Mezzer Pro and the Expert?

Second time it broke on me (purchased the 2nd one retail from World Wide Cyclery) but it broke at the same spot (section near the top bolt) where it's breaking for the rest of the folks here are well. Both times, it didn't even break at the trail - but the shitty material used is unable to handle wind buffeting at freeway speeds (65 mph) (heading to and from the trails I ride). I wish Syncro's would make a bolt on one for these forks, never had one of those break on my fox forks - it's much thicker and not made of this **** for plastic material.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I can't help but wonder if over tightening that bolt contributes to it breaking. I have been beating on mine for over a year now, drive 80 on the highway and have no problem.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

CCS86 said:


> I can't help but wonder if over tightening that bolt contributes to it breaking. I have been beating on mine for over a year now, drive 80 on the highway and have no problem.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


it's not from overtightening - it may be that your car has different wind buffeting characteristics than my car.

I transport my bike on a 1UP car rack, and it's a hatchback. Both times this broke - it's during bike transport.

The way 1UP racks secure bicycles, they don't get anywhere near close to touching the mud guard. It's the shitty plastic they use, it's not fit for use.

Been hauling my other bikes for years now using the Syncros Bolt On Fenders on Fox 34's and 36s and none of those have ever broken. Much thicker plastic being used.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

funks said:


> Anybody here been able to get Manitou to warranty the inadequate / not fit for use (aka, shitty) mud guards that comes with the Mezzer Pro and the Expert?
> 
> Second time it broke on me (purchased the 2nd one retail from World Wide Cyclery) but it broke at the same spot (section near the top bolt) where it's breaking for the rest of the folks here are well. Both times, it didn't even break at the trail - but the shitty material used is unable to handle wind buffeting at freeway speeds (65 mph) (heading to and from the trails I ride). I wish Syncro's would make a bolt on one for these forks, never had one of those break on my fox forks - it's much thicker and not made of this **** for plastic material.
> 
> View attachment 1938465


Unfortunately, no. I was told it's not covered . But yeah it's crap.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

It's not as sturdy as something like the Synchros fender, but aerodynamic forces are no joke and it's big enough to catch a lot of air. So the solution is to find an easy way to eliminate the buffeting. Cut a chunk of pool noodle or something similar to fit between the fender and tire, and put a velcro strap around it. Simple, quick and it works.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Velodonata said:


> It's not as sturdy as something like the Synchros fender, but aerodynamic forces are no joke and it's big enough to catch a lot of air. So the solution is to find an easy way to eliminate the buffeting. Cut a chunk of pool noodle or something similar to fit between the fender and tire, and put a velcro strap around it. Simple, quick and it works.


It's **** plastic being used,, lots of people complained about it here already - breaks in the same spot pretty much every time. It's not fit for use, as shuttling our bike to to and from house / trail via the freeway is something most of us will be doing. Even zip tied fenders don't have any problems with the wind - just a pain to get one that works properly with the reverse arch.

At 29$ shipped, it's an overpriced POS. Syncros bolt on fenders costs 14$ and one doesn't have to ever replace them. Manitou needs to change the material being used, at this point in time, it's a consumable part.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

funks said:


> It's **** plastic being used,, lots of people complained about it here already - breaks in the same spot pretty much every time. It's not fit for use, as shuttling our bike to to and from house / trail via the freeway is something most of us will be doing. Even zip tied fenders don't have any problems with the wind - just a pain to get one that works properly with the reverse arch.
> 
> At 29$ shipped, it's an overpriced POS. Syncros bolt on fenders costs 14$ and one doesn't have to ever replace them. Manitou needs to change the material being used, at this point in time, it's a consumable part.


Cool, yeah that's a bummer. Well, anyway I'm still on my 2 year old original one, but until your tactic of complaining about it on a forum strikes paydirt, I was merely offering a simple, cheap and proven solution that could eliminate the source of your multiple failures.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Velodonata said:


> Cool, yeah that's a bummer. Well, anyway I'm still on my 2 year old original one, but until your tactic of complaining about it on a forum strikes paydirt, I was merely offering a simple, cheap and proven solution that could eliminate the source of your multiple failures.


I sent an e-mail to Hayes via their website, I know some people here have contact with their product management team as well, maybe they can mention this and get the company to look at it.

Sent an e-mail to Syncros (about offering one for the Mezzer) - received a response saying they've passed on the info to the product management team, but pretty sure that won't lead anywhere given Manitou's marketshare.


----------



## Kiwibaconator (Jul 7, 2021)

That fender looks like something you'd bolt onto your Townie, and is just as durable. Be a man and ziptie a piece of inner tube between the crown and arch. Works just as well, costs two dollars, and doesn't look like granny heading to the beach.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

funks said:


> I sent an e-mail to Hayes via their website, I know some people here have contact with their product management team as well, maybe they can mention this and get the company to look at it.
> 
> Sent an e-mail to Syncros (about offering one for the Mezzer) - received a response saying they've passed on the info to the product management team, but pretty sure that won't lead anywhere given Manitou's marketshare.


There's no doubt it could be improved, although I'm not in love with the Syncros one either. It's got considerably less coverage than the Mezzer fender and is even relieved to provide unobstructed access to the stanchions for flying dirt. But if the Mezzer fender were made from the same material as the Syncros and beefed up around the mounts it would be better.

Still, eliminating wind buffeting during transport will improve the durability of any plastic part. Part of why the Syncros fender holds up better is because it is smaller and catches less air.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

funks said:


> it's not from overtightening - it may be that your car has different wind buffeting characteristics than my car.
> 
> I transport my bike on a 1UP car rack, and it's a hatchback. Both times this broke - it's during bike transport.
> 
> ...


The fenders on my Mezzer and Mattoc have survived thousand of km of roof-rack use with no issues. But the J-unit 20" fender (same thing) has torn out the top bolt. No idea why the difference. I left it like that and it's surviving fine.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm waiting for the mudguard to snap to get a new Shorty X from Mudhugger, I installed one on my Magnum, it's been thru hell and it's still in one piece.
Honestly I'm surprised mine have lasted until now, giving the amount of sticks and small rocks that get dragged by the wheel. The material it's just too soft and I'm not that surprised that people are destroying them by just looking at them wrong.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Aglo said:


> I'm waiting for the mudguard to snap to get a new Shorty X from Mudhugger, I installed one on my Magnum, it's been thru hell and it's still in one piece.
> Honestly I'm surprised mine have lasted until now, giving the amount of sticks and small rocks that get dragged by the wheel. The material it's just too soft and I'm not that surprised that people are destroying them by just looking at them wrong.


Thanks, I e-mailed them asking if they can considering designing and manufacturing a bolt-on one for the Mezzer. As for the fenders, from all the pictures posted her, it's breaking / ripping at the exact same spot (near the top bolt hole).



kiwibaconator said:


> Be a man and ziptie a piece of inner tube between the crown and arch.


I live in California and most of our trails and hard pack and dry, don't even remember the last time I saw mud. Lots of our trails got cow ****, horse ****, and who knows what else and I really don't want that stuff getting flung to my face. Tying an inner tube between the crown and the arch won't help me one bit as I am not looking to clear mud.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Kiwibaconator said:


> That fender looks like something you'd bolt onto your Townie, and is just as durable. Be a man and ziptie a piece of inner tube between the crown and arch. Works just as well, costs two dollars, and doesn't look like granny heading to the beach.


Is a man really a man if he's actually concerned about his fender looking like a "granny..."? FFS.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm confident my 6 week old fork is suffering from the loose bushing issue. Appreciate any feedback...

How does one definitively determine there's slop so as to expedite service from Manitou? Pull the lowers and single leg test the casting on the stanchion?

Anyone know if they just require the fork to be sent back for warranty regardless of issue?

Can loose bushings crackle a bit like a loose hs/clapped CSU?

I've really come to love this thing and it pains me to think I might have to send it back.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Does anyone have instructions for damper disassembly? what tools are needed?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> I'm confident my 6 week old fork is suffering from the loose bushing issue. Appreciate any feedback...
> 
> How does one definitely determine there's slop so as to expedite service from Manitou? Pull the lowers and single leg test the casting on the stanchion?
> 
> ...


Bushings are quiet and oil lubed. Cracking noise is something dry moving.



spo0n said:


> Does anyone have instructions for damper disassembly? what tools are needed?


Just a 16.3mm clamp block and M5 bleed fitting. Rest are normal tools.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Just a 16.3mm clamp block and M5 bleed fitting. Rest are normal tools.


So it comes apart a bit like a Charger?


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

spo0n said:


> So it comes apart a bit like a Charger?


There was a guide made by a member in the thread at some point, probably search "valving guide mezzer "in the thread, it was something along those lines.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

funks said:


> It's **** plastic being used,, lots of people complained about it here already - breaks in the same spot pretty much every time. It's not fit for use, as shuttling our bike to to and from house / trail via the freeway is something most of us will be doing. Even zip tied fenders don't have any problems with the wind - just a pain to get one that works properly with the reverse arch.
> 
> At 29$ shipped, it's an overpriced POS. Syncros bolt on fenders costs 14$ and one doesn't have to ever replace them. Manitou needs to change the material being used, at this point in time, it's a consumable part.


The simple solution is to save money and get rid of the fork. $29 a pop adds up. Since I don't need a fender, I can help you by taking it off your hands for $200.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Cary said:


> The simple solution is to save money and get rid of the fork. $29 a pop adds up. Since I don't need a fender, I can help you by taking it off your hands for $200.


I have two of these forks, a pro and an expert, and I also have a mara pro, and a mara inline. Some people ought to stop nut hugging manufacturers though when some components of what they sell isn't up to snuff. 

Feels like some people are just too heavily invested in a certain thing that they start acting like zealots.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

funks said:


> I have two of these forks, a pro and an expert. Some people ought to stop nut hugging manufacturers though when some components of what they sell isn't up to snuff.
> 
> Feels like some people are just too heavily invested in a certain thing that they start acting like zealots.


Way to completely misinterpret a joke. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> Way to completely misinterpret a joke.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


The world would not be complete without party poopers.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Bushings are quiet and oil lubed. Cracking noise is something dry moving.


I actually though I might have had two issues, bushing slop and creaking CSU. Turns out all the play was from the CSU/steerer (possibly not fully pressed in) which was a bit of a surprise. Flipping the bike upside down, standing on the grips and applying lateral force showed it was deflecting quite a bit. Chasing a chronically loose feeling headset was probably a good indicator in hindsight.

The good news, Manitou CS is up there with the best I've ever experienced.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Does anyone know when there is supposed to be stock of these again?

I'm low key considering this now, or if I should wait until I see what the Charger 3 is (as that would be a drop in replacement), and what the general consensus is on it. So just curious how long I'll have to wait for both of them.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

ocnLogan said:


> Does anyone know when there is supposed to be stock of these again?
> 
> I'm low key considering this now, or if I should wait until I see what Charger 3 is (as that would be a drop in replacement). So just curious how long I'll have to wait for both of them.


I'm in the same boat. I guess I'll be going with whatever comes in stock first.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

cashews said:


> There was a guide made by a member in the thread at some point, probably search "valving guide mezzer "in the thread, it was something along those lines.


Found it, thanks 

Now time to do the 12mm compression tune, and also flatten the rebound piston and lighten the rebound tune


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> So it comes apart a bit like a Charger?


A bit. The top piston and tube are held on by a 6mm hex key up the top of the tube. But you need to get the tube off it's end caps with shaft clamps.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

Well after owning a mezzer pro (and having a few isolated issues) I went to a coil fork to chase simplicity. Unfortunately, my $1250 Ohlins coil fork now has bushing slop worse than anything I’ve ever felt. It’ll get fixed but I’m thinking of coming back to the mezzer. However, I still want simplicity. Has anyone ridden the expert? My main issue with the pro was the constant need to check pressures before every ride, and even then, a 1-2 psi difference was make or break for the ride quality. How does the tune on the expert compare to the pro?

TLDR: Is the expert worth the money if I want a simpler version of the pro?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

megablue said:


> Well after owning a mezzer pro (and having a few isolated issues) I went to a coil fork to chase simplicity. Unfortunately, my $1250 Ohlins coil fork now has bushing slop worse than anything I've ever felt. It'll get fixed but I'm thinking of coming back to the mezzer. However, I still want simplicity. Has anyone ridden the expert? My main issue with the pro was the constant need to check pressures before every ride, and even then, a 1-2 psi difference was make or break for the ride quality. How does the tune on the expert compare to the pro?
> 
> TLDR: Is the expert worth the money if I want a simpler version of the pro?


The first thing that springs to mind (pun not intended) is why did you need to check the pressures before each ride? The fork once set should hold pressures for months, if not, something is wrong.

Both the damper and the air side are different in the Expert. The Expert only has the one air setting, with adjustable volume for ramp up. Likewise, the damper on the expert has a combined hs/ls oompression setting, instead of separate ones. By all accounts the Expert is an excellent fork and if you just want to set and forget probably the better choice. For many riders they may get better performance from the Expert, as the Pro requires pretty methodical setup and dialing in, and if not done properly, will likely result in worse performance than the Expert, which will be far easier to set up. Even with both set up optimally, the performance difference will not be huge, they are both great, one just gets you the last few percent.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The idea that a ride is "made" or "broken" by 1-2 psi change in pressure is beyond me. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

megablue said:


> Well after owning a mezzer pro (and having a few isolated issues) I went to a coil fork to chase simplicity. Unfortunately, my $1250 Ohlins coil fork now has bushing slop worse than anything I've ever felt. It'll get fixed but I'm thinking of coming back to the mezzer. However, I still want simplicity. Has anyone ridden the expert? My main issue with the pro was the constant need to check pressures before every ride, and even then, a 1-2 psi difference was make or break for the ride quality. How does the tune on the expert compare to the pro?
> 
> TLDR: Is the expert worth the money if I want a simpler version of the pro?


Talk to DZ Suspension Germany. He will probably be able to make a dedicated coil unit using the rxf 36 coils for the mezzer. I am thinking about going that route, too. Of course you can just put the air seals away and use a coil, but a dictated version will perform better more reliable and probably operate more quit


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> The idea that a ride is "made" or "broken" by 1-2 psi change in pressure is beyond me.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Maybe "made" or "broken" was a bit of a stretch. Great vs. ok is probably more accurate. But thank you for your very helpful insight.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

megablue said:


> Maybe "made" or "broken" was a bit of a stretch. Great vs. ok is probably more accurate. But thank you for your very helpful insight.


Pointing out that you are being dramatic, and exaggerating what is and is not an "issue", is a helpful insight... But only if you choose to be receptive.

It sounds like you have made up your mind that the Mezzer is "too complicated".

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Pointing out that you are being dramatic, and exaggerating what is and is not an "issue", is a helpful insight... But only if you choose to be receptive.
> 
> It sounds like you have made up your mind that the Mezzer is "too complicated".
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


I didn't know that it would be taken so literally. My main gripe (I'll remove the word issue to make you feel better) was how little pressure changes (I'll remove 1-2 psi) could change the ride of the fork. It got annoying.
My ISSUES with my pro was 2 creaky CSU's, a blown damper, and factory cross threaded TSR ports. Yes, manitou fixed them all but being without my fork multiple times within 6 months was quite annoying.
I hope this was more accurate and less dramatic for you.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

i wonder if Pro 2psi out of wack still rides better than expert


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Is it common to have the bath oil trapped up in the damper side stanchion or is it just an isolated thing?

Any reason NOT to port that white cap?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Is it common to have the bath oil trapped up in the damper side stanchion or is it just an isolated thing?
> 
> Any reason NOT to port that white cap?


Happens in my fork too. I've opened up that white washer to help the oil drain out. Helps with 5w40 Motorex bath oil but the Supergliss 100k gets up there and stays there.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

I ported mine. Do you need to cut a lot away or will just a small slot work? I just cut the cassette tool splines about 2-3mm bigger in 3 places


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Can anyone recommend a service center in the US for the Mezzer? Besides Manitou/Hayes?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

afraid said:


> Can anyone recommend a service center in the US for the Mezzer? Besides Manitou/Hayes?


Do you need warranty work or just basic service? It's really easy to service with basic tools... and this coming from someone who's had some frustration with previous forks.


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

EatsDirt said:


> Do you need warranty work or just basic service? It's really easy to service with basic tools... and this coming from someone who's had some frustration with previous forks.


Basic service plus replace 17.5 shim with a 12. I changed the travel myself, but feel like I don't have the time or patience for this.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd imagine any reputable suspension shop can handle that, but the guys at Manitou might have suggestions.

I could be wrong, but I think that one of the distributors (perhaps QBP) has a service center.


----------



## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

afraid said:


> Can anyone recommend a service center in the US for the Mezzer? Besides Manitou/Hayes?


I've had good luck with Dirt Labs in Colorado


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

My fork has bushing play, now. If I hold the front brake and rock the bike, I can clearly feel knocking in the lowers. There's an audible click, too. Any shops in the bay area authorized to rebuild Manitous?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

Skulls Road said:


> My fork has bushing play, now. If I hold the front brake and rock the bike, I can clearly feel knocking in the lowers. There's an audible click, too. Any shops in the bay area authorized to rebuild Manitous?


hold your wheel to make sure it isn't the brake pads moving.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

EatsDirt said:


> Is it common to have the bath oil trapped up in the damper side stanchion or is it just an isolated thing?
> 
> Any reason NOT to port that white cap?


I enlarged three of the cassette tool splines on my white cap. Before porting, the oil (supergliss 100) would get up in there and stay there. After porting, the oil is able to drip back out when the fork is upright.

I am unaware of any downside to porting other than oil having easier path into the upper tube when inverted.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Skulls Road said:


> My fork has bushing play, now. If I hold the front brake and rock the bike, I can clearly feel knocking in the lowers. There's an audible click, too. Any shops in the bay area authorized to rebuild Manitous?


Bushings don't click and they've got to be dry to knock. So it's likely not bushings. Keep looking.


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

POAH said:


> hold your wheel to make sure it isn't the brake pads moving.


Headset, rotors, brake pads etc


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

So, I am the proud new owner of 2 Mezzer Pros now. I replaced the 36 I had on my trail bike about a month ago with a used one, and a brand new just came in for my park bike. So far, I'm super impressed with how the fork feels but I do feel a pretty significant top-out clunk on both. I don't notice it under normal riding conditions for the most part. It becomes very noticeable when I pull into a manual. I've tried slowing down the rebound and adding in some HSC and LSC just see if it helps, but it does not. Is this considered normal?

FWIW, I'm a 160 lb rider and I used the spreadsheet calculator in the other thread for the air pressure settings. I made sure to inflate the SIRT fully first and then the main air chamber. Other than that the fork feels spot on.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

woodyak said:


> So, I am the proud new owner of 2 Mezzer Pros now. I replaced the 36 I had on my trail bike about a month ago with a used one, and a brand new just came in for my park bike. So far, I'm super impressed with how the fork feels but I do feel a pretty significant top-out clunk on both. I don't notice it under normal riding conditions for the most part. It becomes very noticeable when I pull into a manual. I've tried slowing down the rebound and adding in some HSC and LSC just see if it helps, but it does not. Is this considered normal?
> 
> FWIW, I'm a 160 lb rider and I used the spreadsheet calculator in the other thread for the air pressure settings. I made sure to inflate the SIRT fully first and then the main air chamber. Other than that the fork feels spot on.


Sounds like maybe the negative and positive chambers are not equalizing, make sure the pump you are using goes in far enough to engage the valve. With the pump connected you should be able to cycle the fork thru the travel fairly easy


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Sounds like maybe the negative and positive chambers are not equalizing, make sure the pump you are using goes in far enough to engage the valve. With the pump connected you should be able to cycle the fork thru the travel fairly easy


Agreed. Make sure this is no weight on the fork when pumping up. It's really easy to get that suck down effect even with just wheel weight


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

A bit of suck-down may help in this regard. 
I always set my Dorado 5-10mm in to travel.

The lyrik effectively does the this, but fixed at 17mm.

The perk of the Dorado Air spring is you can chose. 

Softer off the top and less top out, what's not to like?


----------



## Martin456 (Jul 19, 2021)

Hi guys, just a quick question, if you are changing the pressure in a range of units of psi, lets say from 50/80 to 55/85, is it ok to just add the pressure (or reduce it), or is it still necessary to completely deflate the fork first and then set the desired pressure? Thanks!

ps. one more question, the weight of the rider in the calculator in google docs is meant as the weight of the rider itself or fully kitted? Thank you


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Martin456 said:


> Hi guys, just a quick question, if you are changing the pressure in a range of units of psi, lets say from 50/80 to 55/85, is it ok to just add the pressure (or reduce it), or is it still necessary to completely deflate the fork first and then set the desired pressure? Thanks!
> 
> ps. one more question, the weight of the rider in the calculator in google docs is meant as the weight of the rider itself or fully kitted? Thank you


You can just change pressure.

Fully kitted weight.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Mezzer here where the bladder came out of the lower seat.

Just wondering how you get the lower seat apart to install a new bladder?


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Got it lol looks like just ao ring hold it togeather.... Well not this one lol... I'm guessing that damage to o-ring is what caused the bladder to slip out


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Mezzer here where the bladder came out of the lower seat.
> 
> Just wondering how you get the lower seat apart to install a new bladder?


Yeah the piston and bladder retaining cap are wedged together with an o-ring.
I normally remove the HBO bolt, screw the rebound tube back into the retaining cap and use that to wiggle them apart.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

boostinmini said:


> Mezzer here where the bladder came out of the lower seat.
> 
> Just wondering how you get the lower seat apart to install a new bladder?


Same as mine, you have to wiggle the piston from the lower seat, be careful, it might go flying.
I'd bet it's held tight by an sliced o ring from assembly.
O-Ring size is 19 mm ID, 1mm thick and is not included in the seals service kit for mezzer.

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

jcmonty said:


> Agreed. Make sure this is no weight on the fork when pumping up. It's really easy to get that suck down effect even with just wheel weight


That did the trick. Thanks!


----------



## Shred sledder (Jul 19, 2021)

I was told august for a replacement CSU availability, so I’m assuming that more forks should be in the same time frame


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

If I have a Mezzer Pro with "19" on the lower casting and "19" under the CSU, that would indicate it is a MY2019 fork, correct?


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Bushings don't click and they've got to be dry to knock. So it's likely not bushings. Keep looking.


I'll do some more investigation, thank you. One unrelated question though. Have you come across any Mezzers that don't have any rebound knob "clicks"? Mine just spins and doesn't have any feedback. Hayes said that the fork doesn't have rebound knob clicks but everyone mentions clicks in their setups.


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

It feels like a detent ball clicking in a channel on my rebound.


----------



## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

soooo - the bleed screws in the lowers castings. Manitou docs say you could use these to add some lowers fluids - maybe even use words "service" as part of process... anyone do this? if so - what syringe and what fluid in both sides?

@Dougal... I suspect you of all folks here have an experience or option I want to hear!


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Skulls Road said:


> I'll do some more investigation, thank you. One unrelated question though. Have you come across any Mezzers that don't have any rebound knob "clicks"? Mine just spins and doesn't have any feedback. Hayes said that the fork doesn't have rebound knob clicks but everyone mentions clicks in their setups.


It's not really a click, it's more of a notch or detent like TylerVernon says. The lock nut may have come loose, or wasn't torqued as required. Try removing the rebound knob, then tightening the lock nut, then see if you can feel the detents. If not, you'll need to drop the lower legs and make sure the air spring assembly is torqued as required.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

kamper11 said:


> soooo - the bleed screws in the lowers castings. Manitou docs say you could use these to add some lowers fluids - maybe even use words "service" as part of process... anyone do this? if so - what syringe and what fluid in both sides?
> 
> @Dougal... I suspect you of all folks here have an experience or option I want to hear!


Semi-bath fluid. Manitou says Motorex 5w/40 synthetic, but Dougal has listed Supergliss as another option.

Any syringe that you can determine 5-7cc's will work, you just need an M5 fitting that you can find in brake bleed kits to connect to the bleed ports.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kamper11 said:


> soooo - the bleed screws in the lowers castings. Manitou docs say you could use these to add some lowers fluids - maybe even use words "service" as part of process... anyone do this? if so - what syringe and what fluid in both sides?
> 
> @Dougal... I suspect you of all folks here have an experience or option I want to hear!


You can, but I never have. I just drop the lowers. Same M5 thread as the damper bleed fittings.
Stock is Motorex Powersynt 5W40. I use Motorex Supergliss, currently 68K but run 100k in summer.


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

That Supergliss 68k is some fancy unobtanium.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Moosedriver said:


> It's not really a click, it's more of a notch or detent like TylerVernon says. The lock nut may have come loose, or wasn't torqued as required. Try removing the rebound knob, then tightening the lock nut, then see if you can feel the detents. If not, you'll need to drop the lower legs and make sure the air spring assembly is torqued as required.


Yeah, this happened to me. The rebound just spun and spun w/o clicks. I later noticed some oil coming out. I took the rebound cap off and I was able to move the lock nut around with my fingers. Re-torqued and the clicks returned. Don't just crank it down as the torque on these is on the low end. 3.95-4.5nm.


----------



## tempmeister (Nov 16, 2020)

TylerVernon said:


> That Supergliss 68k is some fancy unobtanium.


nothing super fancy about it really - only the use of it for MTB forks. It's Motorex's version of an ISO 68 slideway oil - of which there are many. (Fuchs, Mobil, Shell etc make them). DT Swiss recommend it because Motorex are Swiss too.

I did some research comparing data sheets for slideway oils and found that Shell Tonna S3 M68 had the best rating for wear resistance under pressure at ISO 68 viscosity (superior to supergliss). Myself and friends have used this very successfully in our forks as it is also more widely available.

If you can't get that Mobil Vactra, Castrol Magna are other decent iso 68 slideway oils that I was able to find in 1L bottles.

(be aware that you can also get ISO 68 hydraulic oil which is not suitable)


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Motorex Supergliss can be purchased directly from Motorex USA. Couple emails and I had a bottle of 100k a week later.









MOTOREX Products – Euroline







eurolineusa.com


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Just did my first service on my Mezzer. Love how simple it is to change the oil. Everything went smooth except now the fork is noisy. Pre-service it was pretty much silent. Now it's noisy on compression and rebound.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Skulls Road said:


> Just did my first service on my Mezzer. Love how simple it is to change the oil. Everything went smooth except now the fork is noisy. Pre-service it was pretty much silent. Now it's noisy on compression and rebound.


What kind of noise are you hearing? There should be a quiet but audible noise of the oil moving around, which is normal, but there shouldn't be other noises.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Moosedriver said:


> What kind of noise are you hearing? There should be a quiet but audible noise of the oil moving around, which is normal, but there shouldn't be other noises.


Like a whoosh and squish. The rebound sounds like typical rebound noise when it's really slow, but it makes noise through the whole range. There's a whooshing sound in compression though. I'll try to record it tomorrow.


----------



## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Sounds like you might want to have another go at servicing it!


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

Skulls Road said:


> Like a whoosh and squish. The rebound sounds like typical rebound noise when it's really slow, but it makes noise through the whole range. There's a whooshing sound in compression though. I'll try to record it tomorrow.


 Did you change the fluid in the bladder?, did you use the stock fluid or something else?, some fluids make more noise than others.
sounds like you may need to re-bleed the bladder if you used the stock fluid. I've found it can take quite a few more cycles than described in the service guide to get all the air out if your using the syringe method.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

cashews said:


> Did you change the fluid in the bladder?, did you use the stock fluid or something else?, some fluids make more noise than others.
> sounds like you may need to re-bleed the bladder if you used the stock fluid. I've found it can take quite a few more cycles than described in the service guide to get all the air out if your using the syringe method.


Didn't touch the damper side. Just pulled the lowers, removed the airspring, cleaned everything, greased the airspring, added Fox 20wt gold because it's what I had on hand. Maybe the fox stuff is noisier?


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Skulls Road said:


> Didn't touch the damper side. Just pulled the lowers, removed the airspring, cleaned everything, greased the airspring, added Fox 20wt gold because it's what I had on hand. Maybe the fox stuff is noisier?


Manitou recommends 5w oil, so putting in a 20w is going with a thicker oil than what the fork is designed around. The extra noise is probably from the oil having a harder time being pushed around. I would recommend picking up some Motorex 5w powersynt and replacing the Fox 20w. Your fork will perform better and will be quieter. You can probably find the Motorex at a local auto parts store or a dirt bike parts shop. Amazon is another option.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Moosedriver said:


> Manitou recommends 5w oil, so putting in a 20w is going with a thicker oil than what the fork is designed around. The extra noise is probably from the oil having a harder time being pushed around. I would recommend picking up some Motorex 5w powersynt and replacing the Fox 20w. Your fork will perform better and will be quieter. You can probably find the Motorex at a local auto parts store or a dirt bike parts shop. Amazon is another option.


Well that's stupid of me. I had Fox 20wt in my notes as a suitable fluid. I must had misread some information on this forum, my fault. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Skulls Road said:


> Well that's stupid of me. I had Fox 20wt in my notes as a suitable fluid. I must had misread some information on this forum, my fault. Thanks for the help.


No, not stupid at all. I am definitely not an expert in oil and viscosity and I've never tried Fox 20w in my Mezzer, so I may be wrong. Maybe the Fox 20w works well enough that most riders wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 20w and 5w.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Moosedriver said:


> No, not stupid at all. I am definitely not an expert in oil and viscosity and I've never tried Fox 20w in my Mezzer, so I may be wrong. Maybe the Fox 20w works well enough that most riders wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 20w and 5w.


I think I found where I got the idea. Supergliss is sold as an alternative to a bunch of oils, including 20wt gold. So in my mind I figured, supergliss is an alternative to motorex, so 20wt gold is alternative to motorex as well. It is summer here, so maybe 20wt won't be a problem until the temps drop. I'll go for a ride tomorrow and see how it feels before spending more money on oil.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm pretty sure I've read here that Dougal said gold would work fine.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Recorded a 15 second video so people can hear the noise. Tell me what you think.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

sounds more like air


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TylerVernon said:


> That Supergliss 68k is some fancy unobtanium.


I've got it by the 250cc and litre. I've got drums on the way from Switzerland.



EatsDirt said:


> I'm pretty sure I've read here that Dougal said gold would work fine.


Yeah gold works okay. It's not as slippery as Supergliss 100K and not as good in the cold as the stock Motorex 5W40.



Skulls Road said:


> Recorded a 15 second video so people can hear the noise. Tell me what you think.


Air in the damper.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Questions for the experienced mezzer mechanics here. 

I got my fork back from Manitou, they replaced the crown steer unit for the creaking issue I had.

Anyhow I attempted to change travel and basically stripped the air spring sealhead when trying to remove it. I am using the Manitou cassette tool with a slot. 

Just wondering what could be the best way to remove the air spring seal head at this point. Manitou says a replacement air spring and rod is approximately $120, worst case is they would replace the crown steerer unit again.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

Well ****, air in the damper is no good. Guess it's time to learn how to bleed a damper.

I went ahead and ordered the bleed kit and some supergliss from Dougal. Glad we have you as a resource for parts and information. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Moosedriver said:


> Manitou recommends 5w oil, so putting in a 20w is going with a thicker oil than what the fork is designed around. The extra noise is probably from the oil having a harder time being pushed around. I would recommend picking up some Motorex 5w powersynt and replacing the Fox 20w. Your fork will perform better and will be quieter. You can probably find the Motorex at a local auto parts store or a dirt bike parts shop. Amazon is another option.


They do not recommend a 5w oil. They recommend a 40 weight oil that meets the 5w cold pumping test. At 40c, fox gold 20w is 98cst at 40c, Motorex 5w-40, 89cst, approximately the same thickness. Gold 20w will thicken faster at lower temperatures.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Cary said:


> They do not recommend a 5w oil. They recommend a 40 weight oil that meets the 5w cold pumping test. At 40c, fox gold 20w is 98cst at 40c, Motorex 5w-40, 89cst, approximately the same thickness. Gold 20w will thicken faster at lower temperatures.


Good to know, thanks. How did you find out that they recommend based on the 40 rather than the 5? I would think it would be more based on the lower (winter) rating rather than the higher (summer) rating since MTB forks are going to normally operate closer to the temperature range that determines the winter number (determined at 0 degrees F) rather than the summer number (determined at 212 degrees F). I'm still trying to learn more about suspension, so every tidbit of knowledge helps!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Moosedriver said:


> Good to know, thanks. How did you find out that they recommend based on the 40 rather than the 5? I would think it would be more based on the lower (winter) rating rather than the higher (summer) rating since MTB forks are going to normally operate closer to the temperature range that determines the winter number (determined at 0 degrees F) rather than the summer number (determined at 212 degrees F). I'm still trying to learn more about suspension, so every tidbit of knowledge helps!


Spend some time on bobistheoilguy.com and you will learn more than you will ever want. In a multigrade oil, the W number tells you cold pumping test the oil has passed, all are below freezing. The second number of an oil tells you the thickness at 100c (operating temperatures). Oils thickness is also tested at 40c, and measured in centistokes (cSt). The difference in thickness between 40c and 100c is the viscosity index (higher number less change, lower number more).

For suspension purposes we generally look at 40c thickness, as that is close to operating temperature for us (ignore the labeled weight, it means nothing). Here is a list of major suspension oils and their thicknesses:









Suspension Oil Comparison: WPL vs. Fox and RockShox


Before you begin reading make sure if you haven’t already, read this post and watch this video . Those will inform you of everything you need to know about Oils, Viscosity Index, cSt, Lubricity and much more. We get several emails asking how to determine what suspension oil weight you need for...




us.wplbike.com


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

My Mezzer CSU has started creaking pretty bad. Seems a couple others have had similar issues?

was really hoping the Mezzer would get away from this after having previous CSU creaks with Fox and RockShox.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

GiddyHitch said:


> Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?


I just happen to have a Mattoc not mounted on a bike right now. The weight difference is about 120 grams, the below photos are of a Mezzer 29", uncut, out of the box with the axle, the Mattoc is a 120-140mm aftermarket 29" Pro with IRT, about 8.5" of steerer, axle, and star fangle nut.

In terms of the performance, the Mattoc at 120mm is plenty stiff under my 200 pounds. I did modify the IRT (you can find the info here in the forum) so it engaged later, as the IRT is designed around the longer travel Mattoc and works better when scaled back to the short travel. Dougal can give a better back to back comparison of the performance, as it has been a while since I have been on Mattoc at full travel (will be shortly, as servicing a Bronson with one) and it hard to fairly compare a fork on a 120mm plus hardtail and 150mm FS trailbike. I will say that my Son's hardtail has a 2020 Fox Rhythm Grip 120mm fork and while it performs far better than the prior fox 34 forks, I still find the Mattoc to track better and be a bit plusher.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Cary said:


> I just happen to have a Mattoc not mounted on a bike right now. The weight difference is about 120 grams, the below photos are of a Mezzer 29", uncut, out of the box with the axle, the Mattoc is a 120-140mm aftermarket 29" Pro with IRT, about 8.5" of steerer, axle, and star fangle nut.
> 
> In terms of the performance, the Mattoc at 120mm is plenty stiff under my 200 pounds. I did modify the IRT (you can find the info here in the forum) so it engaged later, as the IRT is designed around the longer travel Mattoc and works better when scaled back to the short travel. Dougal can give a better back to back comparison of the performance, as it has been a while since I have been on Mattoc at full travel (will be shortly, as servicing a Bronson with one) and it hard to fairly compare a fork on a 120mm plus hardtail and 150mm FS trailbike. I will say that my Son's hardtail has a 2020 Fox Rhythm Grip 120mm fork and while it performs far better than the prior fox 34 forks, I still find the Mattoc to track better and be a bit plusher.
> 
> ...


I'll take it, Cary! ? That weight on the Mattoc is a little disappointing but still under spec. An older Dougal post in another thread seemed to indicate that the Mattoc was around 1880g, putting it a lot closer to the Fox 34 that I'm trying to replace. I may end up sucking it up and grabbing another Mezzer and cranking it down to 120-130mm since they seem to be a lot more available (though still hard to get right now) than the Mattocs.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I went from mattoc to mezzer and found a noticable performance improvement. For aggressive riding and was running mattoc at 160mm

Noticed a lot less friction under heavy impacts/braking/etc. And just a bit more controlled.

Having said that, both are great. At similar weight, I feel like mezzer makes more sense 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

GiddyHitch said:


> I'll take it, Cary! ? That weight on the Mattoc is a little disappointing but still under spec. An older Dougal post in another thread seemed to indicate that the Mattoc was around 1880g, putting it a lot closer to the Fox 34 that I'm trying to replace. I may end up sucking it up and grabbing another Mezzer and cranking it down to 120-130mm since they seem to be a lot more available (though still hard to get right now) than the Mattocs.


I have to think a new Mattoc is in the works. Having run a Fox 34 FIT4, including doing every upgrade I could, the Mattoc is massive upgrade. In comparison to the 34 with the Grip, the Mattoc is a moderate upgrade. I fully expected to rip the Rhythm off my son's hardtail within a week, but 8 months later it is still on there. It is good enough it hasn't warranted replacing yet.


----------



## upsha (Jun 1, 2017)

Cary said:


> I have to think a new Mattoc is in the works. Having run a Fox 34 FIT4, including doing every upgrade I could, the Mattoc is massive upgrade. In comparison to the 34 with the Grip, the Mattoc is a moderate upgrade. I fully expected to rip the Rhythm off my son's hardtail within a week, but 8 months later it is still on there. It is good enough it hasn't warranted replacing yet.


Could you elaborate what upgrades you had in your FIT4 Fox34? I like my Fractive tuned FIT4 with 140mm EVOL air spring (no Luftkappe) 29" more than my first gen Mattoc with IRT 27.5" @160mm.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

upsha said:


> Could you elaborate what upgrades you had in your FIT4 Fox34? I like my Fractive tuned FIT4 with 140mm EVOL air spring (no Luftkappe) 29" more than my first gen Mattoc with IRT 27.5" @160mm.


I did the upgrade to the Evolv air spring (larger negative chamber), and made sure that the thing was properly lubed and greased. I contemplated the Fractive Tuning, but given the price that people were willing to pay for a used 34, I was able to get the Mattoc (actually Magnum) for nearly the same price as I sold the 34. When combined with fact that I don't ever want to service a Fit damper, but can easily service an ABS damper, it was a no brainer for me.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GiddyHitch said:


> Can anyone compare a Mezzer to the Mattoc for a short travel bike? And is the weight difference really only 40g even though the stanchions are 37mm vs 34mm?


I haven't run a Mezzer shorter than 160mm. I have though run Mezzer and Mattoc at the same travel on the same bikes.

Mezzer is stiffer (obviously), it has a different air spring feel with it more supple in the inches off the top and then more progressive at the end.
The Mezzer damper has a much more controlled and tighter feel if you're running the LSC open, if you run the LSC closed on both that's the same. Because the Mattoc had a much bigger LSC flow path.

All up the Mezzer is tighter controlled and takes the big stuff better.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

For better stiffness you better take a mattoc 3 which has a more massive arch similar to the mezzers


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

TylerVernon said:


> If I have a Mezzer Pro with "19" on the lower casting and "19" under the CSU, that would indicate it is a MY2019 fork, correct?


I called Manitou. They said that my fork was manufactured in the latter half of 2019 but since the current production forks are not different, the seller was technically correct when he called it a 2021 model.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

TylerVernon said:


> I called Manitou. They said that my fork was manufactured in the latter half of 2019 but since the current production forks are not different, the seller was technically correct when he called it a 2021 model.


I think that is technically shady.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

nmxtrdr said:


> Motorex Supergliss can be purchased directly from Motorex USA. Couple emails and I had a bottle of 100k a week later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TylerVernon said:


> Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.


We have your product, but only if you know the secret password and beg.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> Yeah, but a couple of clicks and I have a gallon of Mobile Vactra on the way. These swiss people need to work on their customer service. No available stuff. No data sheet on the product web page. Weak.


Nice.
Which number Vactra are you using?


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

"Vactra No. 2, Way Oil, ISO 68, Slideway Lubricant" Hopefully that's the right one.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Dougal said:


> I haven't run a Mezzer shorter than 160mm. I have though run Mezzer and Mattoc at the same travel on the same bikes.
> 
> Mezzer is stiffer (obviously), it has a different air spring feel with it more supple in the inches off the top and then more progressive at the end.
> The Mezzer damper has a much more controlled and tighter feel if you're running the LSC open, if you run the LSC closed on both that's the same. Because the Mattoc had a much bigger LSC flow path.
> ...


Well, thanks to the enablers on this thread I've now ordered my third Mezzer. I think I've got a problem ... but at least that problem isn't a Fox 34 FIT4 anymore.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> "Vactra No. 2, Way Oil, ISO 68, Slideway Lubricant" Hopefully that's the right one.


Nm


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

The Vactra specs are easy to find. I couldn't find the Motorex specs to do a comparison.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

TylerVernon said:


> The Vactra specs are easy to find. I couldn't find the Motorex specs to do a comparison.








Supergliss Lubricating Oil 250 to 1000 cc (Motorex) | Shockcraft


<p>SuperGliss is a vertical slideway lube produced by Motorex in Switzerland. It is thick and sticky to adhere to the fork bushings and very slippery to offer close to zero friction or stiction. It is the best lubricant we have found for fork




www.shockcraft.co.nz




Some info here


----------



## R.T.R. (Sep 20, 2005)

GiddyHitch said:


> Well, thanks to the enablers on this thread I've now ordered my third Mezzer. I think I've got a problem ... but at least that problem isn't a Fox 34 FIT4 anymore.


5 Mezzer's here;
Ibis HD5 set at 170
Ibis Ripmo V2 160
Ventana Zeus 160
Ibis Mojo V4 140
Ibis Ripley V4 130
All with Mara Pros or Mara inlines
... definitely a problem, eh ..


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

R.T.R. said:


> 5 Mezzer's here;
> Ibis HD5 set at 170
> Ibis Ripmo V2 160
> Ventana Zeus 160
> ...


Explains where the inventory is going.


----------



## R.T.R. (Sep 20, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Explains where the inventory is going.


Cumulative, ever since their intro a couple years ago. 
😉


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

R.T.R. said:


> 5 Mezzer's here;
> Ibis HD5 set at 170
> Ibis Ripmo V2 160
> Ventana Zeus 160
> ...


Great one 😄


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

R.T.R. said:


> 5 Mezzer's here;
> Ibis HD5 set at 170
> Ibis Ripmo V2 160
> Ventana Zeus 160
> ...


You set the Mezzer at 130? How does it feel? I think Manitou only officially recommends 140?


----------



## R.T.R. (Sep 20, 2005)

cassieno said:


> You set the Mezzer at 130? How does it feel? I think Manitou only officially recommends 140?


Works exceptionally well, much more so ( no comparison ) than the Factory Fit 34 with Luftkappe and SKF seals.

I don't think there's any travel recommendation per Manitou, you're really only limited by the number of travel spacers
provided with the fork - and beings I've some extra travel spacers laying around ... ?
As far as travel goes you could probably run them as far down as you want.

Fox forks have frustrated me since their inception. The Manitou's are all there straight out of the box.

I have removed the 17.5mm shim out of the compression stack on all, and the 13.6 shim out of the rebound on my pre MY 21's.
Supergliss 68 in all the lowers.

I can't say I'm not tempted to install the Mezzer at 120mm on my next project bike, Ibis Exie, but am going with the Manitou R7 Pro with Mara inline in the rear.
The stock Factory suspension coming with that bike will never be compressed by me.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

06HokieMTB said:


> My Mezzer CSU has started creaking pretty bad. Seems a couple others have had similar issues?
> 
> was really hoping the Mezzer would get away from this after having previous CSU creaks with Fox and RockShox.


Did you get in contact with manitou? Mine is now very creaky too. Just wondering if the swapped it out for you. Thanks


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

jimarin said:


> Did you get in contact with manitou? Mine is now very creaky too. Just wondering if the swapped it out for you. Thanks


I had the same problem; see my posts a few pages back. I sent manitou a video to demonstrate the loud creak. Manitou replaced my mezzer's CSU under warranty. out of pocket was

also update to my stripped air shaft seal head (my fault). Hope this helps others. I was able to get it unthreaded by hitting it with a heat gun and using a unslotted cassette tool, unior brand. New airshaft is in and fork is running good


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

jimarin said:


> Did you get in contact with manitou? Mine is now very creaky too. Just wondering if the swapped it out for you. Thanks


I did. Sent a warranty claim through their site and attached a 6 second video like mentioned above and they responded quickly. Fork was shipped out via UPS today. Shipping cost wasn't too bad ($21 to send back to Manitou in Wisconsin).


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd imagine Manitou handles these things case by case, but they’ve sent two warranty CSU’s directly to me so I can swap them myself.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

For anybody with a bit of creaking, I would highly suggest having a go with a wicking threadlocker first.

For the leg connections, flip the fork upside down, blast the joint with compressed air, then put some strong alcohol through the joint and airblast out again. Then apply the loctite and let it cure for a while.









Amazon.com: Loctite 29031 290 Green Wicking Grade Threadlockers, 1.69 oz., 50 mL : Automotive


Buy Loctite 29031 290 Green Wicking Grade Threadlockers, 1.69 oz., 50 mL: Thread Lock - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



smile.amazon.com


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I haven't had any luck with 290 long term (on other brands) but it's cheap enough to try. 

The stuff seems to eat paint so it's probably best to clean up any excess.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My Mezzer is here and my new Neuhaus Metalworks frame is built (waiting on a couple more parts and it will be ready to ride - microspline driver). Frame is designed for a 140mm fork with 415 CS. I'll probably try it at 160mm with a little more sag (because that's what it came with and the tools to adjust travel are $65 and unavailable??? wtf?). I think, I can also do the attach shock pump and push down fork method to figure out exactly what travel I want.

Waiting sucks when you can see the bike.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Manitou tools make it easier but they are not required, first time I changed the travel I used the shock pump to completely compress the air spring so I could use a regular cassette socket.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Got it, that makes a lot of sense. And will make it easier. Thanks!


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

And I would recommend running it at the 140mm setting instead of 160 with more sag, you'll lose mid stroke and probably make it harsher. Plus anytime i get a new fork I take it apart to grease everything and make sure the correct amount of bath oil goes in.


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

The good news is they will send me a new CSU. Bad news is they are out of stock until October. I’ll give ccs86’s suggestion a try and hopefully at least quiet it down for a bit.


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

Any ideas why the fork can be harsh?


160mm fork
~90kg me with equipment
mostly trail riding (more rough terrain on the high speed, less jumps)
50 psi main chamber
75-80 psi in IRT chamber
3 click from fully closed HSC (from +)
6 clicks from fully closed LSC (from +)

There is about 30mm of unused travel. Also, all small bumps goes straight to handlebars, resulting in arm fatigue on the long trails. How to make fork using more travel? Is it possible to ride it with 50 psi in IRT chamber (or even 0 psi), for example, just to make sure the fork is able to compress fully?


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

danforth said:


> Any ideas why the fork can be harsh?
> 
> 
> 160mm fork
> ...


I would say you should completely OPEN both compression dials and add compression from there. That will make a big difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

johnsogr said:


> I would say you should completely OPEN both compression dials and add compression from there. That will make a big difference.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just noticed, that i misspell amount of clicks and direction from where i count the clicks. If count from fully closed (+), for HSC it was 3 clicks (max is 4), so it almost fully opened. For LSC it was 6 clicks from fully closed (4 clicks from fully opened). I edited post above.

I will try to ride with both fully opened compressions, but maybe i should add more pressure to main and IRT chamber? Can it be the reason that i am riding with more sag (about 30%), so it means that i already start utilizing IRT chamber in beginning of travel, and this results in arm fatigue? As per Mezzer guide, i should ride with about 66 psi main, and 87 psi IRT (including deducted 10 psi for trail riding as per their advice). As per this chart, people with near the same weight as me riding with a bit more pressure in both chambers.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I agree. Fully open both compression dials AND the rebound.

Put your main pressure at 59psi and with the pump connected tightly, push the fork through it's full travel. You should be able to bottom it out easily in the garage. Get the front wheel hanging in the air before disconnecting the pump.

You can leave the IRT at 80 and add more if you bottom out.

Besides that, have you disassembled the air spring and IRT to ensure they are well greased and that there is a good amount of bath oil in the lowers and on the foam rings?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Besides that, have you disassembled the air spring and IRT to ensure they are well greased and that there is a good amount of bath oil in the lowers and on the foam rings?


My fork was shipped to german distributor under the warranty twice, and both time after receive it back i bring it to bike mechanic to check if it is enough oil. He said that the oil/grease was always in correct amount. 


CCS86 said:


> Put your main pressure at 59psi and with the pump connected tightly, push the fork through it's full travel. You should be able to bottom it out easily in the garage.


So, if i understand you correctly, i should put 59 psi in main chamber, 0 psi in IRT, and pressing by hands i should be able to bottom it out? I will try.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> I agree. Fully open both compression dials AND the rebound.
> 
> Put your main pressure at 59psi and with the pump connected tightly, push the fork through it's full travel. You should be able to bottom it out easily in the garage. Get the front wheel hanging in the air before disconnecting the pump.
> 
> ...


This. Rebound on these needs to be run more open than what feels proper in the parking lot. To much rebound will lead to harshness and reduced travel as the fork packs down. Try the higher pressures and start with the rebound 7-9 clicks out from closed and go from there. Also remember full bottom on these does not push the oring all the way to the crown. Measure from full extension with a ruler to see where full compression is about 10 mm from the crown.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

danforth said:


> So, if i understand you correctly, i should put 59 psi in main chamber, 0 psi in IRT, and pressing by hands i should be able to bottom it out? I will try.


No, read my post again. That's not what I said.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## danforth (Apr 15, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> No, read my post again. That's not what I said.


I thought that i will not be able to bottom it out with pressure in IRT 100% even with connected air pump, that is why i didn't catch you. I was wrong. I tried what you told me, i was able to bottom it out, everything works fine and the fork goes all travel.

As per advices in this topic i made following adjustments:

50 psi in main --> 59 psi in main
80 psi in IRT remains the same
HSC 3 clicks from closed --> fully open
LSC 6 clicks from closed --> fully open
fully open rebound

I will try to ride my local trails and tune it click-by-click until i reach perfect setup. Cheers everyone.


Cary said:


> Also remember full bottom on these does not push the oring all the way to the crown


Yeah, i know this. Does your fork has oring?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

danforth said:


> I thought that i will not be able to bottom it out with pressure in IRT 100% even with connected air pump, that is why i didn't catch you. I was wrong. I tried what you told me, i was able to bottom it out, everything works fine and the fork goes all travel.
> 
> As per advices in this topic i made following adjustments:
> 
> ...


My fork has an oring, but I don't remember if it came with one on the stanchion. I always install one when I pull a fork apart so make it easier to establish how much travel is being used.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Eh. After about 4 rides with the new CSU i'm runnning into a loosening issue. The front end loosens up after going down some chunkier descents and there are severe vibrations from the front end of the bike. I have to tighten up top cap and stem bolts. It feels like a loose headset. This is very odd as the mezzer with original CSU never did this. 

To troubleshoot I have done the following:

1. Remove the stem and top cap from the bike and fork. Cleaned everything up with rubbing alcohol. Re-greased all the bearings and headset cups. I reinstalled the stem and top cap bolt and tightened the top cap to preload the bearings until the play was gone from the headset, then retighten the stem bolts with a torque wrench to proper torque values. I went for a ride on the street and simulated chunk by riding at walking speed into sidewalk curbs and off sidewalk curbs. The headset will loosen after four or six tries off the curb and would require tightening.

2. Next I redid the same as above but I decided to add friction paste to the stem and steerer interface. I rode the bike around the street and did the sidewalk curb tests and the headset loosened up again after four or six tries same as above.

3. Next I purposely over tightened the top cap in order to put a lot of preload on the headset bearings to the point that the handlebars are stiff to turn. I tighten down the stem bolts using the correct torque values and proceeded to do the sidewalk curb test again. Still the same thing the headset will become loose after nine or so tries into the curb. 

4. Next I uninstalled the mezzer and reinstall the MRP stage fork. I regreased the headset cups, tightened the top cap and made sure it was not overly preloaded. I tightened the stem bolts with the torque wrench And did the sidewalk curb test again. With this fork the headset did not come loose at all. I tried riding into the sidewalk curb over 22 times and the headset did not loosen, the front end remained tight. 

I suspect there's something going on with the mezzer and it's replacement CSU. I visually checked the star nut from the bottom side to check if the star nut might be moving up and out and it doesn't look like it is.

Anyone run into a similar issue? Just wondering what I should do to troubleshoot next?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

mobilenemo said:


> Eh. After about 4 rides with the new CSU i'm runnning into a loosening issue. The front end loosens up after going down some chunkier descents and there are severe vibrations from the front end of the bike. I have to tighten up top cap and stem bolts. It feels like a loose headset. This is very odd as the mezzer with original CSU never did this.
> 
> To troubleshoot I have done the following:
> 
> ...


Is there a few mm difference in the length of the steerer tubes? Could be the Mezzer tube is slightly longer so I would add another spacer above the stem and try again.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mobilenemo said:


> Eh. After about 4 rides with the new CSU i'm runnning into a loosening issue. The front end loosens up after going down some chunkier descents and there are severe vibrations from the front end of the bike. I have to tighten up top cap and stem bolts. It feels like a loose headset. This is very odd as the mezzer with original CSU never did this.
> 
> To troubleshoot I have done the following:
> 
> ...


If the steerer wasn't fully seated it can pull up in the first few rides. Readjust your headset and it will go away. It may take 2-3 readjustments before it pulls up enough depending on your riding.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

mobilenemo said:


> Anyone run into a similar issue? Just wondering what I should do to troubleshoot next?


Go back a few pages here and check the pics in my Mezzer CSU thread... in particular the lines etched in the steerer should be of value.

PM me if you want updated info. The struggle is real.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

Dougal said:


> If the steerer wasn't fully seated it can pull up in the first few rides. Readjust your headset and it will go away. It may take 2-3 readjustments before it pulls up enough depending on your riding.


I'm planning on getting a Mezzer once they're back in stock locally but the fact there is a hack for a steerer not being seated is a little worrying. Is this a common issue?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

springs said:


> Is there a few mm difference in the length of the steerer tubes? Could be the Mezzer tube is slightly longer so I would add another spacer above the stem and try again.


After reading this it seems like your cleaning the steerer tube then pulling the headset off, greasing and assembling? Are you also cleaning the steerer tube after installed the headset and headset cover? I had a similar issue after very quickly pulling my headset apart to grease before a ride. I found the headset cover seal to leave a film of grease on the steer tube when installing. After cleaning my steerer tube well then installing the stem and spacers I haven't had any issues.

The one reason I can think of that your mrp isn't have the same issue, is that the surface finish on the Mezzer steerer tube does seem smoother than others.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> If the steerer wasn't fully seated it can pull up in the first few rides. Readjust your headset and it will go away. It may take 2-3 readjustments before it pulls up enough depending on your riding.


I wish 2-3 readjustments were the case for me. Even after TWE/Ahab, chunk, steeps, bike park I'm at 20++ adjustments for _both_ CSU's and steerer is still moving on the current one.

The whole ride it until it's tight thing is a horrible approach for obvious reasons, even if it actually works for some... Still love the performance and holding out hope.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

I appreciate all the responses.



kapolczer said:


> After reading this it seems like your cleaning the steerer tube then pulling the headset off, greasing and assembling? Are you also cleaning the steerer tube after installed the headset and headset cover? I had a similar issue after very quickly pulling my headset apart to grease before a ride. I found the headset cover seal to leave a film of grease on the steer tube when installing. After cleaning my steerer tube well then installing the stem and spacers I haven't had any issues.
> 
> The one reason I can think of that your mrp isn't have the same issue, is that the surface finish on the Mezzer steerer tube does seem smoother than others.


I think you meant to reply to me, I'm the one who is having this issue.

I removed the headset bearings (not the cups) and regreased the headset assembly top and bottom. I did make sure to clean off the steerer after sliding the top cap on prior to sliding on the stem spacers, stem, stem spacers, to ensure there's no grease between the stem and steerer interface.


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

springs said:


> Is there a few mm difference in the length of the steerer tubes? Could be the Mezzer tube is slightly longer so I would add another spacer above the stem and try again.


I do have a 10mm spacer above the stem, resulting in about 4 to 5 mm of clearance between top of spacer and top of steerer tube.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> I wish 2-3 readjustments were the case for me. Even after TWE/Ahab, chunk, steeps, bike park I'm at 20++ adjustments for _both_ CSU's and steerer is still moving on the current one.
> 
> The whole ride it until it's tight thing is a horrible approach for obvious reasons, even if it actually works for some... Still love the performance and holding out hope.


How much are you adjusting it?
Headset tension bolts are M6 with 1mm pitch. Each full turn is 1mm. Are you doing 20 adjustments of 0.05mm?


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

mobilenemo said:


> I appreciate all the responses.
> 
> I think you meant to reply to me, I'm the one who is having this issue.
> 
> I removed the headset bearings (not the cups) and regreased the headset assembly top and bottom. I did make sure to clean off the steerer after sliding the top cap on prior to sliding on the stem spacers, stem, stem spacers, to ensure there's no grease between the stem and steerer interface.


I was meaning to reply to you, sorry about that.

I figured it was likely you had done all this but thought it was worth sharing since your experience seemed similar to mine.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> How much are you adjusting it?
> Headset tension bolts are M6 with 1mm pitch. Each full turn is 1mm. Are you doing 20 adjustments of 0.05mm?


When the current CSU was fairly new, I did an off piste steeps trail at a bike park and mid run had to stop to tighten nearly a full turn. There have been many times where I get 1/8-1/4 or so turn since. Nearly every ride for the last month plus has needed an adjustment unless I was just tooling on fire roads.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

New CSU pic followed by current one (still settling)


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

EatsDirt said:


> New CSU pic followed by current one (still settling)
> View attachment 1944632
> 
> View attachment 1944633


Well the good news is you are almost there.


----------



## irck (Dec 31, 2014)

EatsDirt said:


> New CSU pic followed by current one (still settling)
> View attachment 1944632
> 
> View attachment 1944633


Wtf. How are these not pressed in properly from factory?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Cary said:


> Well the good news is you are almost there.


Just wondering if anybody knows how far in the steerer needs to be into the crown until it's "there" ?

Perhaps other owners with good CSUs could measure the depth of the steerer from the bottom of the crown?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> How much are you adjusting it?
> Headset tension bolts are M6 with 1mm pitch. Each full turn is 1mm. Are you doing 20 adjustments of 0.05mm?


Does the mezzer rebound piston have the same design as your tuning piston?






Manitou High Flow Pistons | Shockcraft







www.shockcraft.co.nz





Or is the design of the Mezzer's inferior thus more prone to spiking?


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

irck said:


> I'm planning on getting a Mezzer once they're back in stock locally but the fact there is a hack for a steerer not being seated is a little worrying. Is this a common issue?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This.

This is kind of unsettling. Would hope this is an isolated incident? But it seems we've got a few people here with the issue.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Does the mezzer rebound piston have the same design as your tuning piston?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mezzer rebound/midvalve piston is slotted like mine but with slightly smaller slots. It's good for almost all riders but I have fitted bigger slotted versions for super light riders trying get the compression damping as low as I could.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Cary said:


> Well the good news is you are almost there.


You'd think?! Got another 1/4 turn today&#8230; it's coming off until this gets resolved.


----------



## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> You'd think?! Got another 1/4 turn today&#8230; it's coming off until this gets resolved.


Good idea. Don't let this issue make your user name check out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

So I FINALLLLLY got my Megatower completely built and went for my first ride last weekend. I'm running the Mezzer Pro at 160mm with a RS SD Ultimate Coil with the Vorsprung custom tune. Since this is my first real suspension bike, I had no idea what to set anything too, so I actually just rode everything as is, no adjustments other than initially changing the travel to 160mm and filling the Main and IRT chambers to the aprox recommended pressures for my weight in gear at 160mm of travel. I'm obviously going to set the SAG on the fork and shock first, before I start messing with any rebound or compression settings. And overall, I was pretty happy with how the bike felt suspension wise, but I'm assuming it will take me a year or more more to really hone in on what makes the suspension work better or worse for me, my riding and my weight. At this point, I'm just learning it all.

But a few things I noticed are that the entire suspension did seem to feel a bit more like a pogo, than like a finally tuned dampening machine. One of the trail systems I'll be riding fairly often is more of a "Trail" type ride, not Enduro. Lots of short punchy ups and downs and lots of pedaling. And only a few smaller drops or jumps and a few high speed situations or banks. Also these trails have LOTS of tree roots in the way, which are just a huge annoyance to me. They completely break up the flow of the trails and just slow you down. Not what I like to ride. But.... living in the Midwest, you can't really find a lot of great DH type riding. So I have to make due with what I have around me locally. But what I noticed on the first ride, is that it felt like the bike was really hammering into these roots and stupid log overs on the ground, making the bike feel a little more harsh than I thought it would feel, for a top of the line full suspension bike WITH a top of the line Fork and Shock. Not that it felt bad, as I really have no good idea of what good or bad suspension should feel like, haha. I mean, I have some idea. But this is my first FS bike and I'm just getting used to that as well. I've only ever ridden BMX bikes as a kid/young teenager, then my old hard tail Stumpjumper that didn't fit at all, with a pitiful little 2" travel RockShox fork, haha.

And then to make this even more complicated, I'll also be riding an equal amount of time at a DH type trail system. It is mostly fast, smooth, DH trails with some medium to very large jumps on certain trails. One of the trails is a literal HUGE jump line with huge gaps and jumps, but very smooth terrain. Something I'll be working up towards as I get more comfortable and used to the bike and suspension. But there are no huge berms on any of the trails here either. So I'm assuming I'll have to figure out different compression and rebound settings for over there, as those trails differ from the Trail riding by quite a bit? And if so, what would you suggest to try first when I go there? Like I'm going to set this fork and shock up for the trail riding first. Get it dialed in. Then what would I want to change as far as rebound and compression go on the fork when I head over to the more DH type trails with the huge jumps?

I'm also wondering how I should adjust the IRT chamber, Main Chamber, and then the rebound and HSC and LSC settings in general? I see this handy Excel spreadsheet that everyone here shares often: Mezzer User Setups which I'll go over and try to find some settings close to my weight and travel. But just inquiring about in general, what should I try first and adjust FROM - TO?

Something I noticed right away on this excel chart is how many people have lower PSI pressures in both the IRT and Main chambers than what Manitou suggests? Some people 15-20 psi lower! And on avg ~ -9 and -6 lower! So can someone explain WHY most people are running lower pressures in both chambers? And what kind of suspension performance difference will I feel if I also lower my pressures?

Also, not sure if this helps, but the little fork travel O-ring that shows how much travel you've used only moved up about ¾ of the way for the entire day. And I'm 99% sure it was only on this one 3-4' drop off near the end of the trail. So I'm not using all of the travel obviously. And, at this point, I would not describe the setup as plush or dampened. It just feels pretty good, but a little boingy or pogo like. So just looking for some beginner help to get me going and then I can start messing around from there. I've read some of these online articles about how to setup your suspension, but really like to hear from more real world riding people such as yourself. Not Pinkbike or Enduro Mag, where they are expert riders riding insane DH alpine trails all day. Thanks


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

mobilenemo said:


> Just wondering if anybody knows how far in the steerer needs to be into the crown until it's "there" ?
> 
> Perhaps other owners with good CSUs could measure the depth of the steerer from the bottom of the crown?


Had mine upside down today.
Mine is rock solid









Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

SuperWookie said:


> I'm also wondering how I should adjust the IRT chamber, Main Chamber, and then the rebound and HSC and LSC settings in general? I see this handy Excel spreadsheet that everyone here shares often: Mezzer User Setups which I'll go over and try to find some settings close to my weight and travel. But just inquiring about in general, what should I try first and adjust FROM - TO?
> 
> Something I noticed right away on this excel chart is how many people have lower PSI pressures in both the IRT and Main chambers than what Manitou suggests? Some people 15-20 psi lower! And on avg ~ -9 and -6 lower! So can someone explain WHY most people are running lower pressures in both chambers? And what kind of suspension performance difference will I feel if I also lower my pressures?


One thing to consider when looking at fork setup recommendations is that every situation is different even after you adjust for weight and travel - different bikes, different terrain, different speeds, different riding styles, etc. The people making those recommendations must charge a lot harder than I do or like to get hammered by their suspension, because I always find them too stiff for my liking, even the spreadsheet calculator (I ended up at pressures there were recommended for someone 85% of my weight). Given your background and feedback, don't be afraid to dump a bunch of pressure until it's too soft and then work your way up from there. Same with the compression and rebound settings - start with full open and then close them down as needed. Ultimately, you should find that your suspension is working for you instead of against you. I've been where you are before - feeling like my first full suspension bike was trying to kill me on trails that were easy on my hardtail - and it's all a matter of learning how to set up the bike for my riding and not worrying about how my settings differed from strangers on the internet.

If you really want to nerd out on suspension, check out the Vorsprung videos.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

SuperWookie said:


> I'm also wondering how I should adjust the IRT chamber, Main Chamber, and then the rebound and HSC and LSC settings in general? I see this handy Excel spreadsheet that everyone here shares often: Mezzer User Setups which I'll go over and try to find some settings close to my weight and travel. But just inquiring about in general, what should I try first and adjust FROM - TO?
> 
> Something I noticed right away on this excel chart is how many people have lower PSI pressures in both the IRT and Main chambers than what Manitou suggests? Some people 15-20 psi lower! And on avg ~ -9 and -6 lower! So can someone explain WHY most people are running lower pressures in both chambers? And what kind of suspension performance difference will I feel if I also lower my pressures?


One thing to consider when looking at fork setup recommendations is that every situation is different even after you adjust for weight and travel - different bikes, different terrain, different speeds, different riding styles, etc. The people making those recommendations must charge a lot harder than I do or like to get hammered by their suspension, because I always find them too stiff for my liking, even the spreadsheet calculator (I ended up at pressures there were recommended for someone 85% of my weight). Given your background and feedback, don't be afraid to dump a bunch of pressure until it's too soft and then work your way up from there. Same with the compression and rebound settings - start with full open and then close them down as needed. Ultimately, you should find that your suspension is working for you instead of against you. I've been where you are before - feeling like my first full suspension bike was trying to kill me on trails that were easy on my hardtail - and it's all a matter of learning how to set up the bike for my riding and not worrying about how my settings differed from strangers on the internet.

If you really want to nerd out on suspension, check out the Vorsprung videos.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> So I FINALLLLLY got my Megatower completely built and went for my first ride last weekend. I'm running the Mezzer Pro at 160mm with a RS SD Ultimate Coil with the Vorsprung custom tune. Since this is my first real suspension bike, I had no idea what to set anything too, so I actually just rode everything as is, no adjustments other than initially changing the travel to 160mm and filling the Main and IRT chambers to the aprox recommended pressures for my weight in gear at 160mm of travel. I'm obviously going to set the SAG on the fork and shock first, before I start messing with any rebound or compression settings. And overall, I was pretty happy with how the bike felt suspension wise, but I'm assuming it will take me a year or more more to really hone in on what makes the suspension work better or worse for me, my riding and my weight. At this point, I'm just learning it all.
> 
> But a few things I noticed are that the entire suspension did seem to feel a bit more like a pogo, than like a finally tuned dampening machine. One of the trail systems I'll be riding fairly often is more of a "Trail" type ride, not Enduro. Lots of short punchy ups and downs and lots of pedaling. And only a few smaller drops or jumps and a few high speed situations or banks. Also these trails have LOTS of tree roots in the way, which are just a huge annoyance to me. They completely break up the flow of the trails and just slow you down. Not what I like to ride. But.... living in the Midwest, you can't really find a lot of great DH type riding. So I have to make due with what I have around me locally. But what I noticed on the first ride, is that it felt like the bike was really hammering into these roots and stupid log overs on the ground, making the bike feel a little more harsh than I thought it would feel, for a top of the line full suspension bike WITH a top of the line Fork and Shock. Not that it felt bad, as I really have no good idea of what good or bad suspension should feel like, haha. I mean, I have some idea. But this is my first FS bike and I'm just getting used to that as well. I've only ever ridden BMX bikes as a kid/young teenager, then my old hard tail Stumpjumper that didn't fit at all, with a pitiful little 2" travel RockShox fork, haha.
> 
> ...


Dude, all those words and you didn't mention your weight and current pressures and clicker settings? 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

SuperWookie said:


> I'm also wondering how I should adjust the IRT chamber, Main Chamber, and then the rebound and HSC and LSC settings in general? I see this handy Excel spreadsheet that everyone here shares often: Mezzer User Setups which I'll go over and try to find some settings close to my weight and travel. But just inquiring about in general, what should I try first and adjust FROM - TO?
> 
> Something I noticed right away on this excel chart is how many people have lower PSI pressures in both the IRT and Main chambers than what Manitou suggests? Some people 15-20 psi lower! And on avg ~ -9 and -6 lower! So can someone explain WHY most people are running lower pressures in both chambers? And what kind of suspension performance difference will I feel if I also lower my pressures?


One thing to consider when looking at fork setup recommendations is that every situation is different even after you adjust for weight and travel - different bikes, different terrain, different speeds, different riding styles, etc. The people making those recommendations must charge a lot harder than I do or like to get hammered by their suspension, because I always find them too stiff for my liking, even the spreadsheet calculator (I ended up at pressures that were recommended for someone 85% of my weight). Given your background and feedback, don't be afraid to dump a bunch of pressure until it's too soft and then work your way up from there. Same with the compression and rebound settings - start with full open and then close them down as needed. Ultimately, you should find that your suspension is working for you instead of against you. I've been where you are before - feeling like my first full suspension bike was trying to kill me on trails that were easy on my hardtail - and it's all a matter of learning how to set up the bike for my riding and not worrying about how my settings differed from strangers on the internet.

If you really want to nerd out on suspension, check out the Vorsprung videos.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Dude, all those words and you didn't mention your weight and current pressures and clicker settings?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Haha, my bad. I'm 6'8" 235lbs, and have my Main chamber set at 73psi, and IRT set at 105psi


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Haha, my bad. I'm 6'8" 235lbs, and have my Main chamber set at 73psi, and IRT set at 105psi


I would have said to start at 72/103, but since you are close to that and feel like it's harsh, you might drop to 70/100.

I don't think you posted your damper settings yet, but try opening all to full fast and give that a good try.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I would have said to start at 72/103, but since you are close to that and feel like it's harsh, you might drop to 70/100.
> 
> I don't think you posted your damper settings yet, but try opening all to full fast and give that a good try.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Yeah, I don't know what the damper settings are even at. Just whatever they were set at from the factory. But, I'll try your suggestions first, and open all the settings up, give that a go and then see how it feels. Report back here to describe how it felt.

I read some articles today about general settings for suspension and how they can change the feel of the bike. And I have an "idea" of what they should do, but since I have no actual experience with FS, I really don't know that well if it's too soft, too hard, too fast, too slow, etc, haha. I'm sure it'll just take some time and experience, and then I'll start figuring out what I like, the more I ride! The good thing is, this "work" of trying to find out what is best is fun at least  I'm riding a FS mtb finally, one of my life long dreams! Thanks for your help guys


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm one of those people way under the recommended settings. - 145lbs 39/61psi. If I go even a couple psi higher, my arms and wrists get worked.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

SuperWookie said:


> Haha, my bad. I'm 6'8" 235lbs, and have my Main chamber set at 73psi, and IRT set at 105psi





SuperWookie said:


> Yeah, I don't know what the damper settings are even at. Just whatever they were set at from the factory. But, I'll try your suggestions first, and open all the settings up, give that a go and then see how it feels. Report back here to describe how it felt.


*Stop the train.* There is an order to setup, sag (pressure or coil spring rate), rebound, then compression settings. *Without a baseline, there is no place to even have an idea of where to go.* So lets get you started with some settings to help:

Tires- You don't say rim width or tires used, but will assume about 30mm and a trail/enduro casing. Start with 23 front and 27 rear.
Fork- Start with 70/100 psi. Set the rebound 6 clicks out from full closed. Set the high speed compression and low speed compression fully open.
Shock- Presumably Vorsprung provided some starting settings for rebound? If not set it to the middle of the range and low speed compression fully open (unless needed for climbing).
Bounce a up and down on the pedals while riding around a parking lot, you should feel the front and rear bouncing back relatively evenly. If not, adjust the rebound on the rear a few clicks at a time until its return speed feel similar to the front (this will give you a very rough starting point).

Now go ride. Only change one setting, rebound on the rear as you need. Try moving two clicks faster on the rear and see if it feels better or worse (are you getting bucked off jumps, then too fast). If worse, try going 2 clicks slower (more closed) from your starting point. Any better, or is the bike not wanting to come off jumps and feeling harsh. (I am having you focus on the rear, as we know at the pressure you are running for the fork, about 5-7 clicks from full closed is right, we don't know for the shock). Now that you have this somewhat dialed, report back with how it feels and where you think you want improvement.

Also, keep in mind that many shocks and forks need a few rides to settle in. As seals and components break in, often you will find that the travel used increases and you will need a little more dampening (as friction is decreasing).


----------



## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

SuperWookie said:


> Yeah, I don't know what the damper settings are even at. Just whatever they were set at from the factory. But, I'll try your suggestions first, and open all the settings up, give that a go and then see how it feels. Report back here to describe how it felt.
> 
> I read some articles today about general settings for suspension and how they can change the feel of the bike. And I have an "idea" of what they should do, but since I have no actual experience with FS, I really don't know that well if it's too soft, too hard, too fast, too slow, etc, haha. I'm sure it'll just take some time and experience, and then I'll start figuring out what I like, the more I ride! The good thing is, this "work" of trying to find out what is best is fun at least  I'm riding a FS mtb finally, one of my life long dreams! Thanks for your help guys


There are recommended damper settings in the Mezzer instruction manual (it's on the Manitou website) and on the Santa Cruz website for the Hightower. Start there. Then ride for a few full rides to adapt to life with a suspension bike.

After you've gotten a little bit used to the bike and learned to have fun on it. Then start to fettle.

Follow this for basic setup: 




And then when you've spent some time with that, check out this one: 




Don't be in too much of a hurry to get it perfect, there's no one perfect set up for all situations, and you won't even know what sensations warrant making adjustments until you've had a good number of sensations.


----------



## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

I actually ended up slightly above Manitou recommended, I found the spreadsheet pressures too soft and wallowy. Lsc 3 from closed and hsc 1 from open. Might try the 12mm shim, I don't know if it will be to soft afterwards. Or maybe it will let me run a firmer air spring. Either way the rebound feels overdamped for me


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Just to reiterate here when setting the fork's pressure.

1. Screw your high pressure pump *all the way in* on the main chamber and make sure you release all the air.
2. Screw your high pressure pump on the IRT, set the air pressure to what's desired.
3. Screw your high pressure pump all the way in on the main chamber again, *double check and make sure you pump is screwed in all the way once more time* (some people end up not screwing the pump all the way in and ends up not filling the negative chamber).
4. Pump the main chamber to your desired pressure
5. *Lift the front of the bike up so the wheel is off the ground*, m*ake sure the fork is extended all the way out*, and if the *pressure is good to go*, remove the pump (*while making sure the fork is fully extended and the front is still lifted*).


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Trying to buy a Mezzer Expert 29 44mm offset here in Europe. No such luck. I need 3 more for friends. Hope suply is up soon otherwise a lot of missed opportunities.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

funks said:


> Just to reiterate here when setting the fork's pressure.
> 
> 1. Screw your high pressure pump *all the way in* on the main chamber and make sure you release all the air.
> 2. Screw your high pressure pump on the IRT, set the air pressure to what's desired.
> ...





Cary said:


> *Stop the train.* There is an order to setup, sag (pressure or coil spring rate), rebound, then compression settings. *Without a baseline, there is no place to even have an idea of where to go.* So lets get you started with some settings to help:
> 
> Tires- You don't say rim width or tires used, but will assume about 30mm and a trail/enduro casing. Start with 23 front and 27 rear.
> Fork- Start with 70/100 psi. Set the rebound 6 clicks out from full closed. Set the high speed compression and low speed compression fully open.
> ...





Tim-ti said:


> There are recommended damper settings in the Mezzer instruction manual (it's on the Manitou website) and on the Santa Cruz website for the Hightower. Start there. Then ride for a few full rides to adapt to life with a suspension bike.
> 
> After you've gotten a little bit used to the bike and learned to have fun on it. Then start to fettle.
> 
> ...





funks said:


> Just to reiterate here when setting the fork's pressure.
> 
> 1. Screw your high pressure pump *all the way in* on the main chamber and make sure you release all the air.
> 2. Screw your high pressure pump on the IRT, set the air pressure to what's desired.
> ...


Thank all of you for your input, advice, recommended settings, everything! This is going to be more complicated than I thought, and sounds like it will take some time. But that's alright, it'll be fun learning and finally getting the bike perfect (or very close). I'm just so stoked that I finally have my dream MTB and get to ride finally!

I'm going to print all of this out, and work on getting the fork and shock setup over the next few days. Have my friend or gf help me with setting the sag on the shock, and then go ride! I'll report back here when I feel the fork is as close to optimal as I think it can get, and post my settings in the excel sheet. Thanks everyone


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Thank all of you for your input, advice, recommended settings, everything! This is going to be more complicated than I thought, and sounds like it will take some time. But that's alright, it'll be fun learning and finally getting the bike perfect (or very close). I'm just so stoked that I finally have my dream MTB and get to ride finally!
> 
> I'm going to print all of this out, and work on getting the fork and shock setup over the next few days. Have my friend or gf help me with setting the sag on the shock, and then go ride! I'll report back here when I feel the fork is as close to optimal as I think it can get, and post my settings in the excel sheet. Thanks everyone


It's not complicated, you just need to be methodical. Here is a simple guide that will get you 90% with a few car-park tests: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-suspension/1-page-suspension-setup-guide

Start with pressure, your weight (kg) in the top (in psi), set the bottom to 2/3 that.

Sag is bollocks. Ignore sag. Everyone measures it differently which makes it completely useless.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dougal said:


> Sag is bollocks. Ignore sag. Everyone measures it differently which makes it completely useless.


I disagree. Sag is useful to get a starting point. It is inconsistent and dependent on who and how measured but it gives a starting point, especially for those who have no idea what their suspension should even begin to feel like. I do prefer starting with manufacture recommended pressures and settings, like Ibis and Santa Cruz provide, but those are not always available. Without those, setting the rear at 30% sag and the front at 20% at least gets a ballpark start.

And as far as being methodical as you suggest, yes, but it seems like getting most people to even follow your one page setup guide is near impossible. Our society wants instant gratification and if not received, want someone else to deal with it.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Cary said:


> I disagree. Sag is useful to get a starting point. It is inconsistent and dependent on who and how measured but it gives a starting point, especially for those who have no idea what their suspension should even begin to feel like. I do prefer starting with manufacture recommended pressures and settings, like Ibis and Santa Cruz provide, but those are not always available. Without those, setting the rear at 30% sag and the front at 20% at least gets a ballpark start.


Just look at the sag numbers claimed on this board. They're all over the place. In the mattoc thread we've got a light rider who thinks he's got 30% sag on 50/100psi where I'm heavier and got around half that sag on 40/80psi.

It's completely useless. It doesn't give you consistent spring rate or anything. Frequency is the only way that works.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Not to mention, stiction massively impacts apparent sag.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CCS86 said:


> Not to mention, stiction massively impacts apparent sag.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


That is why most manufacturers recommend oil for splash lube instead of Elmers.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Cary said:


> *Stop the train.* There is an order to setup, sag (pressure or coil spring rate), rebound, then compression settings. *Without a baseline, there is no place to even have an idea of where to go.* So lets get you started with some settings to help:
> 
> Tires- You don't say rim width or tires used, but will assume about 30mm and a trail/enduro casing. Start with 23 front and 27 rear.
> Fork- Start with 70/100 psi. Set the rebound 6 clicks out from full closed. Set the high speed compression and low speed compression fully open.
> ...





CCS86 said:


> I would have said to start at 72/103, but since you are close to that and feel like it's harsh, you might drop to 70/100.
> 
> I don't think you posted your damper settings yet, but try opening all to full fast and give that a good try.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk





Tim-ti said:


> There are recommended damper settings in the Mezzer instruction manual (it's on the Manitou website) and on the Santa Cruz website for the Hightower. Start there. Then ride for a few full rides to adapt to life with a suspension bike.
> 
> After you've gotten a little bit used to the bike and learned to have fun on it. Then start to fettle.
> 
> ...


Ok, so I watched all the videos and more. Read the Enduro MTB mag article on how to setup your suspension and printed out the Manitou Mezzer Pro fork setup page. I mostly just went off of that good video from Bike Radar for now, but used everything. Some of the stuff was easy to setup and I could tell it changed, other things I had no idea what I was doing even changing. I'd move the knob from open to close and couldn't feel a thing, haha. I think those settings will need to be messed with while ON the trails.

So the sag on my RS SD Ultimate Coil was already at 30%, so that's good. Didn't have to change that. And after changing the Mezzer to 105psi and 70psi respectively, then doing the hard fork bounce test as in the video, it seemed like the air pressure was good. The video said your fork travel O-ring should move up to be between 80-90% of full travel. And after mashing on it a good 5 plus times, it was right around there.

Then I moved on to Rebound for both, but that is where I'm already getting a bit lost. I don't understand which way to turn the knobs to do what they are saying. So on the video and the Enduro MTB article, it states: Start by adding full rebound damping (+) to the shock. No idea which way that is on either?

My RS SD Ultimate Coil shock doesn't have + or -, it has a Rabbit or Tortoise. I also have NO idea how many clicks of rebound there is, as it's kind of hard to feel and hear, and when you get near the ends of turning it open or closed, it seems like it can turn farther than the clicks until it stops twisting. So when you hear the first click after winding it all the way open, is that 1? Or is already on 1 when it's all the way open or closed?

And which way do I turn the rebound dial to get the shock to Full Rebound? If I'm looking at it from above, and the Tortoise is on the left and Rabbit is on the right, which way do I turn the knob to get to Full Rebound? And same question for my fork? Is + on the compression, Full Compression or is - Full Compression? Basically I just don't know which way to turn the knobs to be fully opened, fully closed, full rebound, no rebound, full compression, no compression, etc.

The one thing I changed that made a BIG difference and I could feel instantly was changing the rebound on the Mezzer! It must have been pretty high, because I was able to mess with it, and get it feeling a LOT different and better. If I was standing over my bike and reached down to the rebound knob underneath the right fork leg, I turned it counter-clockwise until it stopped. Then came back 2-4 clicks and it felt SO good. VERY VERY damped, deadened, and I went outside real quick and just ran over everything, haha. A bunch of high curbs, parking spot curbs and other stuff and it felt SOO good. No sharp jarring hits and it just SUCKED up the hits like they were little 4" bumps or something, haha. SOOO cool. I'm sure I might have to adjust it a bit up or down on the trail, but at least I got it in a general setting that feels WAY more like I thought a high end fork should feel like. Super damped and sucks up HUGE hits with ease and no jarring feeling.

But I can't figure out the shock completely right now. But, I'm not as worried about it, as Vorsprung tuned it for me, put the correct spring on it, and it already shows 30% sag. So it's probably pretty good already. Plus it being a coil, I don't have to worry too much about micro adjusting it. Getting the tune right and the proper spring is the biggest part. I think I just need more time and actual trail riding to feel the differences from changing the rebound and LSC.

I guess for now, I just need help knowing which way to turn the rebound knob on my RS SD U Coil to get it to Full Rebound. And how many clicks does it have total. I can't tell, but think it's around 15 or 16 or so?

Then I set the HSC on the Mezzer at 2, which is right in the middle. And I also just set the LSC in the middle at 5 of 10. I'll mess with those more when I'm on the trail, as I don't know if I can even feel any change just bouncing around in the garage or out in the parking lot.

Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

You are overcomplicating this man.

70/100
All clickers wide open
Go ride.


This fork has plenty of damping wide open.

If the front doesn't feel supportive enough, add a couple psi to the main. If it feels harsh, take a couple out.

If you bottom out too easily, add a couple psi to the IRT.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

FYI for people new. Wide open means nothing.

@SuperWookie wide open means nothing added. Rebound should be as fast as possible (toward the rabbi). Turn the dial all the way. Bounce on it. Turn it the other way. Whichever way is fast leave it like that for rebound.

Compression - you are not adding any compression damping. Turn them one way all the way and bounce. Turn them all the way the other way and bounce. One of the directions you will feel the fork resisting compression. That's not what you want. Set it up so it has no added resistance to you pressing / bouncing down hard)

On the Mezzer that's turning the compression knobs to minus all the way (counter clockwise) .

I don't see arrows on my the rebound knob. So just go with the above. You will hear and see when the rebound damping is working (fork rebounds slowly.)


----------



## upsha (Jun 1, 2017)

SuperWookie said:


> Then I moved on to Rebound for both, but that is where I'm already getting a bit lost. I don't understand which way to turn the knobs to do what they are saying. So on the video and the Enduro MTB article, it states: Start by adding full rebound damping (+) to the shock. No idea which way that is on either?


Just to answer your question.

Rabbit = opening = unscrewing = counter clockwise when looking at the knob = less damping force.

You seems getting your spring rate and rebound in the right ballpark now. It's time to go ride!


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Quick question about the Mezzer Pro. Once I find good settings for rebound, LSC and HSC, but then find that the fork is bottoming out/diving too easy on big hits or drops, would I then fill the IRT chamber with a little more air? To prevent the fork from diving too much near the end of it's travel? Basically make it more progressive, to prevent endo'ng? So that its super plush and damped in the beginning and mid travel, but then ramps up quickly near the final 2/3 - 3/4 of it's travel? Or would I look to changing some other setting to accomplish that? Thanks


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

SuperWookie said:


> Quick question about the Mezzer Pro. Once I find good settings for rebound, LSC and HSC, but then find that the fork is bottoming out/diving too easy on big hits or drops, would I then fill the IRT chamber with a little more air? To prevent the fork from diving too much near the end of it's travel? Basically make it more progressive, to prevent endo'ng? So that its super plush and damped in the beginning and mid travel, but then ramps up quickly near the final 2/3 - 3/4 of it's travel? Or would I look to changing some other setting to accomplish that? Thanks


Experiment! Increasing either main or IRT will give you more bottom out protection in slightly different flavors. If you're close to where you want to be, a little more IRT might do it.

I'm someone who tunes for support first, traction second, comfort last. Using HSC is really effective at providing support and bottom out protection as well, I'm normally 2 clicks out from open. Forget exact psi but, looking at the mezzer setup guide, I'm running 1 weight class up from recommended on main , 2 weight classes up on IRT. Long story short, don't be afraid to experiment with setup, especially if riding agressively in rough terrain.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

SuperWookie said:


> Quick question about the Mezzer Pro. Once I find good settings for rebound, LSC and HSC, but then find that the fork is bottoming out/diving too easy on big hits or drops, would I then fill the IRT chamber with a little more air? To prevent the fork from diving too much near the end of it's travel? Basically make it more progressive, to prevent endo'ng? So that its super plush and damped in the beginning and mid travel, but then ramps up quickly near the final 2/3 - 3/4 of it's travel? Or would I look to changing some other setting to accomplish that? Thanks


Agree with croakies about experimenting. Very roughly, the main chamber will firm up the fork through its entire travel, the IRT will come into play at 1/3 to 1/2 travel. Try 15 psi in the irt first, the drop it back to the starting pressure and try 10 psi more in the main and see which works better for you.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Also, forgot to ask about something else I've noticed. The Hexlock axle that comes with the fork... it squeaks all the time now. So can I put some WD-40 or other lubricant in there to stop that? And if so, where would I put it? Thanks


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

SuperWookie said:


> Also, forgot to ask about something else I've noticed. The Hexlock axle that comes with the fork... it squeaks all the time now. So can I put some WD-40 or other lubricant in there to stop that? And if so, where would I put it? Thanks


Put some grease on the threads on the inside of the axle (on the side you tighten it/brake side).


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Also, forgot to ask about something else I've noticed. The Hexlock axle that comes with the fork... it squeaks all the time now. So can I put some WD-40 or other lubricant in there to stop that? And if so, where would I put it? Thanks


You can use a q-tip or something to butter some anti seize into the threads. Much smoother operation.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Cary said:


> Agree with croakies about experimenting. Very roughly, the main chamber will firm up the fork through its entire travel, the IRT will come into play at 1/3 to 1/2 travel. Try 15 psi in the irt first, the drop it back to the starting pressure and try 10 psi more in the main and see which works better for you.


Adding 10-15 psi to the main or IRT chambers is a huge change. Unless you were way off, it's not likely to be an improvement.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

SuperWookie said:


> Also, forgot to ask about something else I've noticed. The Hexlock axle that comes with the fork... it squeaks all the time now. So can I put some WD-40 or other lubricant in there to stop that? And if so, where would I put it? Thanks


I had squeaking issues with the torque faces on the bolt. I laid the bike over with hex bolt face down then dripped a wax based lube into the cavity while exercising the bolt to work lube onto the surfaces. Problem solved.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

jimarin said:


> Put some grease on the threads on the inside of the axle (on the side you tighten it/brake side).


I would also add that you should drip some viscous oil around the circumference of the captured nut from the outside and then onto the face of the nut from the inside with the bike/fork on its side.

EDIT: I typed in my reply before realizing that EatsDirt had replied with the same advice.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Thought of another question, haha. Some guy at the local trail was admiring my bike and fork, but mentioned I should look into getting something called a Maxle for the fork? Said it's like the Hex lock axle on my Manitou, but with a quick release lever and some sort of set it and forget it ability? Said it will make taking off my front wheel super fast and easy? Do you guys know about these? And which size do I need, and which are ones are good but affordable? Thanks


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Maxle is not remotely compatible, and I'd imagine the hexlock design provides some challenges to a QR type function.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Manitou had a quick release hexlock on the Mattoc. It is a bit of a pain in the rear. I much prefer the current hex tool design. Also, many manufacturers are going away from quick releases front and rear, as they are heavier and serve no purpose. Times have changed from when we had quick releases to save time and allow quicker tube changes during a race, as well as eliminate the need to carry a wrench as pre quick release old bikes usually used a 15mm nut.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> Maxle is not remotely compatible, and I'd imagine the hexlock design provides some challenges to a QR type function.





Cary said:


> Manitou had a quick release hexlock on the Mattoc. It is a bit of a pain in the rear. I much prefer the current hex tool design. Also, many manufacturers are going away from quick releases front and rear, as they are heavier and serve no purpose. Times have changed from when we had quick releases to save time and allow quicker tube changes during a race, as well as eliminate the need to carry a wrench as pre quick release old bikes usually used a 15mm nut.


Oh ok. So that's a no go on a QR Maxle for the Mezzer then? Gotcha, thanks for response guys


----------



## subydoo (Feb 17, 2005)

Just mounted a Mezzer Pro LE on the ole Evil Calling. Set the travel at 160mm. I consulted the spreadsheet and calculator, (Thanks CCS86) then settled on 100psi in the IRT and 66 in the main, I'm 200lbs soaking wet. When I set the travel I checked and re-greased with Slickoleum, bath oil got 21cc of Supergliss, (Thanks Dougal).

Read both threads, stoked to try this thing. Thanks for the info.

And now its raining.

Anyway test ride soon!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Someone here said, he put a coil in the mezzer.
Did he pull out the air piston and air rod sealing as well or just throw the coil in there?

Is the support and small sensivity very different and worth it?


----------



## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Cary said:


> Manitou had a quick release hexlock on the Mattoc. It is a bit of a pain in the rear. I much prefer the current hex tool design. Also, many manufacturers are going away from quick releases front and rear, as they are heavier and serve no purpose. Times have changed from when we had quick releases to save time and allow quicker tube changes during a race, as well as eliminate the need to carry a wrench as pre quick release old bikes usually used a 15mm nut.


Yeah I mean trail side repairs your wheel removal percentage of time is what <5%?

And if its an issue of wheel off for transport just keep the appropriate hex key handy and again you are maybe taking an extra 10 seconds of work.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm considering getting my son a Mezzer Comp for his bike build, but can't find any for sale. 27.5 with a 37mm offset. Does anyone know where to find one?


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Curveball said:


> I'm considering getting my son a Mezzer Comp for his bike build, but can't find any for sale. 27.5 with a 37mm offset. Does anyone know where to find one?


Yeah, I've been lurking on the Hayes website for a few months now, looking for a Mezzer in the 29er/44mm offset variant for a while. I can't seem to find anywhere with one in stock.

Does anyone have any idea when new stock may eventually be coming?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

ocnLogan said:


> Yeah, I've been lurking on the Hayes website for a few months now, looking for a Mezzer in the 29er/44mm offset variant for a while. I can't seem to find anywhere with one in stock.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea when new stock may eventually be coming?


There is one for sell on the PB buysell, brand new, just saw it this morning


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

06HokieMTB said:


> I did. Sent a warranty claim through their site and attached a 6 second video like mentioned above and they responded quickly. Fork was shipped out via UPS today. Shipping cost wasn't too bad ($21 to send back to Manitou in Wisconsin).


I've had two Mezzers, both started creaking within a year.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Stock (last I heard) was now-ish. Once those are snatched up January (for the Hayes website). My framebuilder ordered my fork in February from Hayes and it was delivered in June.


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

Any reports on how the Mobile 1 Vactra way oil performs as lower bath oil? I thought a couple people were going to try it and wanted to hear their experiences. Thanks


----------



## balticmoe (Nov 17, 2019)

Curveball said:


> I'm considering getting my son a Mezzer Comp for his bike build, but can't find any for sale. 27.5 with a 37mm offset. Does anyone know where to find one?





ocnLogan said:


> Yeah, I've been lurking on the Hayes website for a few months now, looking for a Mezzer in the 29er/44mm offset variant for a while. I can't seem to find anywhere with one in stock.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea when new stock may eventually be coming?


If ordering from Germany might be an option and the shipping costs etc. remain in the limit here are two possibilities:

r2-bike 27,5" Mezzer Pro 180 mm | BOOST 37 mm Offset
Bike24 Manitou 29" Mezzer Pro 180mm - 44mm Offset


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

I can vouch for Bike24. I've ordered both a Mezzer and Mara Pro from there and they showed up faster than a lot of orders from US vendors.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

ScottieM8 said:


> Any reports on how the Mobile 1 Vactra way oil performs as lower bath oil? I thought a couple people were going to try it and wanted to hear their experiences. Thanks


I tried Vactra no2 after using Supergliss 100 for a few months and the results were odd. First ride was as expected, looser action, had to add rebound and compression. Still preferred the SG100 with more open settings.

Second ride the fork had lost the looseness despite being turned upside down pre-ride per usual. Returned comp and reb to usual SG100 settings but it still felt somewhat crappy. Especially noticeable was the increase in stiction when the fork had been static for just a short period. My unscientific determination is that SG coats the bushings and clings better than Vactra.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Hey everyone, quick question.

I was reading the Mezzer Owners Thread Setup page that I just found and saw this stuff at the very top about having to add oil to the fork?! Like WHAT?!?! Add oil to a brand new fork that should come stock ready to go?!

*New Owner To-do List:*

_Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level_
_Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)_
_Supergliss [*100k*: 5 - 30C+], [*68k*: 0 - 30C], [*32k*: -5 - 20C] (Link)_

_Remove and grease main air and IRT pistons (Slickoleum)_
_Always fill IRT air first (from empty), to ensure the IRT piston is fully extended_
_When filling main air make sure to thread pump on until it stops. This is crucial to ensure the negative chamber is filled. With the pump still connected, you should be able to fully compress the fork without too much effort._

Wondering what the heck this is, and why Manitou didn't have instructions in the box to do this? And is this something SUPER easy that I can do myself? I did change the travel from 180mm to 160mm, so I have been inside the fork. But I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, so just want to make sure I'm not getting in over my head?

And it got me wondering, could this be why my fork doesn't feel as good as it should? Does checking to make sure the lowers have enough semi-bath oil level make a huge difference for performance? And if so, why would my brand new never used fork NOT come ready to go with the oil level at the correct amount? Not sure what semi-bath oil level even is.

Thanks


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

That's completely normal. All fork brands suffer from something brand new. Step 1 for any new fork is pull it apart and check fluid levels and amount of grease. 

All forks are put together quickly in a factory. Quickly leads to okay and not great.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Hey everyone, quick question.
> 
> I was reading the Mezzer Owners Thread Setup page that I just found and saw this stuff at the very top about having to add oil to the fork?! Like WHAT?!?! Add oil to a brand new fork that should come stock ready to go?!
> 
> ...


Checking the oil on a brand new fork is something I have done on every one of the new forks I have ever purchased.

Pretty much every single one of them shipped with low oil volume.


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

I put a Mezzer on my hardtail for a laugh and now I don't want to take it off. One change I made from my full suspension settings was dialing in almost all the low speed compression. I alternate between 6 and 8 clicks. It makes my hardtail a beast. I can let the front end do it's thing and just concentrate on keeping the back end in control. I don't even go around root farms and rock gardens anymore.


----------



## John232629 (Oct 11, 2005)

Skulls Road said:


> I put a Mezzer on my hardtail for a laugh and now I don't want to take it off. One change I made from my full suspension settings was dialing in almost all the low speed compression. I alternate between 6 and 8 clicks. It makes my hardtail a beast. I can let the front end do it's thing and just concentrate on keeping the back end in control. I don't even go around root farms and rock gardens anymore.


I did the same! (also added more spacers then approved by manitou...120mm...


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Same - all though I was going to run it at 140, but threw it on at 160 and it's great. I need to mess with IVA because I think I am not getting the last 15mm or so. But then it also feels great so not sure how much I care.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

cassieno said:


> That's completely normal. All fork brands suffer from something brand new. Step 1 for any new fork is pull it apart and check fluid levels and amount of grease.
> 
> All forks are put together quickly in a factory. Quickly leads to okay and not great.


Huh, did not know that. Glad I asked about it.

So how does one go about checking the fluid levels and amount of grease? What am I checking for? Are they any really good thorough vides you guys can suggest to show me exactly what I need to be doing and looking for? I had no idea about any of this, nor what to do know that I now.

Thanks


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

First couple posts in thread below has all the info you need to keep your Mezzer happy









Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]


The original Mezzer thread got enormous and despite the huge amount of good tech, it is really spread out and hard to access. I figured that I would do my best to consolidate the tech info. Feel free to PM me any specific info and I can add it to this post. Let's do our best to keep the...




www.mtbr.com





Don't be intimidated - Manitou stuff is super easy to work on.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

If anyone is looking for a deal on a Mezzer Pro, hit me up. In a couple weeks, I'll be selling my MY 21 29" 44mm offset fork. It has a steerer crown assembly creak, so I'll let it go for a good price. I'm replacing it with a new Mezzer, I just didn't want to wait around for the new CSA's to be available in November.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Does anyone know how the stock Mezzer compression damping setup compares to the Mattocs? There is more travel, so I guess you could get away with a bit less, I removed one of the shims as recommended, but after reading some more and thinking about it, I think I'll add it back in, I know how to tell if I have too much, but I definitely cannot tell if I have too little, for reference I'm now running LSC closed HSC open in a 150mm Mattoc pro with .15mm compression shim (tried 1 click/ minimal preload, no harshness but hands were getting tired faster, 2 clicks was harsh) 
Thinking I'll change the oil to the RSF 2.5 instead of the Motorex, better VI can be beneficial for cold days as I'll probably land at rebound fully open, so might as well put the comp shim back in


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Question for the lower travel folks… it seems that lowering the travel (to, say 140-150) stacks a whole bunch of spacers that take up negative chamber space?

ive got a random assortment of travel reducer clips from over the years - I’m wondering if a travel adjust spacer could be made to take up less negative air volume than the stock white Manitou travel adjust spacers?

I intend to run my Mezzer on my hardtail at 140 for now (but may play around with 150-160)


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

From what I understand, the spacers are made this way intentionally, to take up as much volume as possible, to preserve the chamber balance, and the neg volume is quite large as is (remember, 37mm stanchions and quite a bit of length) so I wouldn't mess with it, but if you insist to try, pretty sure Mattoc spacers fit in there.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Quick question and positive/negative air chamber stuff. I have a brand new Mezzer that I spaced to 170 from 160 right off the bat. I've been running it for a few months now and have been having problems with the fork sinking in it's travel and feeling soft, despite having the proper amount of pressure. I checked with Manitou and got the following response:

_"The positive and neg chambers are not being setup properly and are out of "balance."To fix this get your bike turned upside down - depress the air valve with an allen key and keep that in place as you compress the fork down all the way - keep that valve depressed and pull it out to full travel. Release the valve. Flip the bike/place in stand - attach your shock pump tight! Inflate to pressure, remove pump - cycle the fork a handful of times - reattach your pump and check pressure - repeat at necessary."_

After I do this the fork [email protected] properly and maintains 170 when pumping the shock and doing a quick test ride. After about 40 minutes of riding the fork starts sinking in it's travel down to 160 or less. I'm able to pull and extend the fork back to 170 but the pressure is too high and it slinks right back down to 160-ish. I've repeated the above steps a few times with the same results. My last attempt I removed the air chamber and verified the spacer for 170 travel was set properly and that the grease and bath oil looked good. I've reached back out to Manitou but want to see if any others are having this issue. FWIW, I have another [email protected] that does not have this issue.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

woodyak said:


> After I do this the fork [email protected] properly and maintains 170 when pumping the shock and doing a quick test ride. After about 40 minutes of riding the fork starts sinking in it's travel down to 160 or less. I'm able to pull and extend the fork back to 170 but the pressure is too high and it slinks right back down to 160-ish. I've repeated the above steps a few times with the same results. My last attempt I removed the air chamber and verified the spacer for 170 travel was set properly and that the grease and bath oil looked good. I've reached back out to Manitou but want to see if any others are having this issue. FWIW, I have another [email protected] that does not have this issue.


Are you making sure the fork is fully extended when removing the pump?


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

POAH said:


> Are you making sure the fork is fully extended when removing the pump?


Yes, the bike is in the stand and the fork is fully extended with the shock not having any air in it. I then attach the shock pump and make sure it's bottomed out on the valve and pump it to the desired pressure. This is with the SIRT already filled. The fork stays extended even after cycling it several times and riding it around the block. It starts dropping when I take it out on a real ride.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

06HokieMTB said:


> I'm wondering if a travel adjust spacer could be made to take up less negative air volume than the stock white Manitou travel adjust spacers?


 The stock travel reducing spacers can be modified to take up less air volume. Drill holes in them, or remove material from the outside perimeter in a way that they are still able to clip together securely on the air shaft.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

I experimented with larger negative volume and have since gone back to standard spacers. Improvement in small bump compliance was minimal, which was the goal. Suppleness over square edges was quite improved at the expense of mid stroke support on steeps.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

06HokieMTB said:


> Question for the lower travel folks&#8230; it seems that lowering the travel (to, say 140-150) stacks a whole bunch of spacers that take up negative chamber space?
> 
> ive got a random assortment of travel reducer clips from over the years - I'm wondering if a travel adjust spacer could be made to take up less negative air volume than the stock white Manitou travel adjust spacers?
> 
> I intend to run my Mezzer on my hardtail at 140 for now (but may play around with 150-160)


Small bump is still great on the Mezzer @ 140 with the stock spacers. Burnishing the bushings (if needed, recent production has been much better for bushing tightness IME) definitely improved small bump and allowed me to run my main pressure higher.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

woodyak said:


> Yes, the bike is in the stand and the fork is fully extended with the shock not having any air in it. I then attach the shock pump and make sure it's bottomed out on the valve and pump it to the desired pressure. This is with the SIRT already filled. The fork stays extended even after cycling it several times and riding it around the block. It starts dropping when I take it out on a real ride.


Had the same issue. Manitou support made me try a bunch of things including what you described, but to no avail. Ended up shipping my Mezzer to them and they replaced the air spring and IRT. It works better now, though issue does not appear to be 100% eliminated. Now, I've gotten into the habit to check and reset IRT and main pressure on my Mezzer before every other ride and it's working well that way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

woodyak said:


> Yes, the bike is in the stand and the fork is fully extended with the shock not having any air in it. I then attach the shock pump and make sure it's bottomed out on the valve and pump it to the desired pressure. This is with the SIRT already filled. The fork stays extended even after cycling it several times and riding it around the block. It starts dropping when I take it out on a real ride.


I'd bet money that the valve which equalizes positive and negative, when the pump is connected, is leaking. When you are out riding and the fork is compressed, main chamber pressure is elevated and bleeding into the negative chamber.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Hi Y'all - thanks for your thoughts, opinions and real world experiences on my negative volume question. This afternoon I changed the travel to 150 and used the stock spacers


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

CCS86 said:


> I'd bet money that the valve which equalizes positive and negative, when the pump is connected, is leaking. When you are out riding and the fork is compressed, main chamber pressure is elevated and bleeding into the negative chamber.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Ahh, might this be the reason my fork works awesome after changing pressure and after 30 seconds starts to destroy my hands? I've always assumed I'm an idiot with setting it up.. 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

romulin said:


> Ahh, might this be the reason my fork works awesome after changing pressure and after 30 seconds starts to destroy my hands? I've always assumed I'm an idiot with setting it up..



I don't think that is possible. If your fork gets more harsh, that means the negative is losing pressure or the main pressure is increasing. 

The negative pressure never rises above the main, so there is nothing to drive a leak from the negative to main chamber. The only place the negative pressure could go, is into the lowers. So, look at this o-ring and seal, or just replace them:











The only other thing you could really have going on is IRT leaking into main. That would be pretty easy to diagnose, by checking the main and IRT pressures again when the fork feels bad. Either set them, disconnect the pump, immediately reconnect the pump to see the corresponding dropped pressure for that set point. Or, learn to pre-pressurize the pump tube before fully connecting to get a more accurate reading.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Hello everyone. Just have a question about this:

Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
Supergliss [*100k*: _5 - 30C+_], [*68k*: _0 - 30C_], [*32k*: _-5 - 20C_] (Link)


I can't find this stuff anywhere in America and just want to get something that is equivalently high quality and long lasting. So can anyone either direct me towards where I can buy these from an American retailer or offer a comparable product I can readily get here in America? I'm about to change the travel of my fork again, and want to do this 7cc of semi-bath oil to the legs, as well as grease the main + irt air pistons with the slickoleum (which I already purchased). Thanks


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Hello everyone. Just have a question about this:
> 
> Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
> Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
> ...




Not sure if it's true or not, but someone in the following thread claims it's as easy as calling and asking for the info (around post 50 or so)









Motorex Supergliss 100k... In the US!


Finally got my hands on this mythical elixir! If there is enough interest, I would consider ordering a drum and providing smaller quantities, shipped inside the US, without the expense and lead time of the international alternative. Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk




www.mtbr.com


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

SuperWookie said:


> Hello everyone. Just have a question about this:
> 
> Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
> Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
> ...


I have a couple new bottles I could sell you if you want a whole liter of see if I can find a smaller container of you need less, I had to order 3 bottles minimum when I found it here.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

The delivery time of the Mezzer Expert in the EU just bumped from 5-9 days to 22-23 weeks! PRO short offset going out of stock as well.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

SuperWookie said:


> Hello everyone. Just have a question about this:
> 
> Drop lowers and check semi-bath oil level
> Motorex Power Synt 4t 5w40 (Link)
> ...


I ordered a liter of Motorex from Cycle Gear for about $30 shipped with the option to pick up at one of their stores to save on shipping as well. Looks like they have 1L and 5L in stock.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I'll be joining the party here soon. Finally decided to pull the trigger, especially seeing how more and more things are expected not to be in stock until mid 2022- 2023, and CS645's post above saying the delivery times are spiking. Figured I couldn't wait anymore if I wanted one if I want one for my new build next spring.

For anyone looking, Dirt Merchant Bicycles (real shop, and also seller on pinkbike), has 29in, 44mm offset, 180mm travel Mezzer Pros in stock.

Looking forward to trying a fork with some compression damping  (I've been on a Yari with moco damper since I started really riding... and I think my inability to trust it completely makes me ride a bit more off the back than I should, since it dives in corners, and on the steeps, and then spikes when it hits the repeated impacts).


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Has anyone tried to use a Oneup EDC V2 with the threadless carrier in the Mezzer? I assume it would work, but figured that I would ask first just in case.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I've got a couple of Mezzers with creaky CSU's. One of them is awaiting a warranty replacement, but the other is probably not going to be warrantied. Is anyone fixing these? I'm in the US.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

ungod said:


> I've got a couple of Mezzers with creaky CSU's. One of them is awaiting a warranty replacement, but the other is probably not going to be warrantied. Is anyone fixing these? I'm in the US.


Might want to contact this guy? He does it for Fox forks. Looks like he presses it out, put loctite, then press it back in. My guess is that it can creak where the stanchions are pressed into the CSU, or creak where the steer is pressed into the CSU.






Does anybody know the process for replacing the bushings on the lowers? Or how much Manitou charges for that service? Or is it better just to buy new lowers?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

funks said:


> Might want to contact this guy? He does it for Fox forks. Looks like he presses it out, put loctite, then press it back in. My guess is that it can creak where the stanchions are pressed into the CSU, or creak where the steer is pressed into the CSU.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I did send off an email to Oliver. I also bought some Loctite 638 on amazon to try the repair myself (it's a wicking type, so maybe i'll have some luck). I have two forks with creaking CSA's plus one spare CSA that creaks, so there's a little room for experimentation  I called Hayes this morning and they said that their latest shipment of stuff is in a port somewhere locked up and they can't get to it.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

In my limited Mezzer experience, the steerer/crown interface is very problematic. 

I was told by Fox that often the casting actually stretches where the bushings sit so replacing lowers is usually the best option. Not sure if that holds true with Manitou, and my take is that Fox is often full of sh!t... but it's a question worth asking.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

All this talk of CSU creaking doesn't give me lots of confidence, having recently ordered (and not received) mine yet.

How long did you guys have your Mezzers before they started creaking?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

ocnLogan said:


> All this talk of CSU creaking doesn't give me lots of confidence, having recently ordered (and not received) mine yet.
> 
> How long did you guys have your Mezzers before they started creaking?


It's really not a big deal. Zero performance impact. Manitou will fix/replace under warranty, if you ask.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Not a lot of people have reported the freaking issue ( but it’s common on Fox forks ). But you’ll most likely encounter the POS mud guard breaking.

This is my third one that broke (not on the trail but the wind / buffeting from the freeway ) this weekend driving from Oakridge, OR back to NorCal - different car this time as well ( but same One UP rack which doesn’t touch the mud guard at all )

Each time, 25$ - anybody else here found something else that fits this reverse arch?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I've had steerer slipping issues on both CSU's right away... currently waiting one that will not have the same problem. Feels like I'm doing QC for them. 

Hopefully you'll have better luck.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

funks said:


> Not a lot of people have reported the freaking issue ( but it’s common on Fox forks )
> 
> But you’ll most likely encounter the POS mid guard breaking.
> 
> ...


Dood, just reinforce that tab with gorilla tape and slap some goop/E6000 where the fender meets that truss.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

EatsDirt said:


> Dood, just reinforce that tab with gorilla tape and slap some goop/E6000 were the fender meets that truss.


I'll try that this time, ordered another one and will try reinforcing it aluminum/foil tape and putting on some shoe goo.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Why don't you reinforce that part of the fender?

Take a piece of thin aluminum sheet, cut it to match the triangle shape, with the mounting hole included, then epoxy or super glue it on.

Not saying you should have to do that, but you might as well stop Fred big it $25 fenders. I have had my original for like 2 years with no issue. I drive 80 on the highway. But something about the way you transport your bike is causing this.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

funks said:


> I'll try that this time, ordered another one and will try reinforcing it aluminum/foil tape and putting on some rubber glue.


I just put a fender washer on there after it broke, it holds it in place just fine. Agreed it's an annoyance though.

I'm on my third CSA/CSU on my Mezzer in about a year. It's really just an annoyance, the fork is so damn good that I can't complain too much. Eventually my warranty will run out on it and i'm not sure what i'll do then. They're $250 from Hayes and clearly the issue isn't going away. 

I'm not sure if i'm doing something to them (did wonder if I tightened my 1up rack down a few too many ratchets on it) or if it's just luck of the draw. Was only running it at 160mm the first time it happened, now i'm at 170 and it happened again. I'll be more gentle on the 1up but i'm still going to ride the hell out of it...

I mean sure, it's annoying and I could switch forks...to what? This fork blew my old Fox out of the water, and my buddy borrowed my bike because his 38 was at Fox getting the CSU replaced and now he wants a Mezzer too. The EXT Era seems to be having some growing pains of its own. Pretty much just leaves a Yari-lanche, which seems a little drastic over a bit of creaking.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I just heard back from Oliver, he'll do the repair for a reasonable amount (about 25% of what Hayes is asking for a new CSA). Going to send it off to him!


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

My current plan for the fender, is to reinforce it with something (as I've


funks said:


> Not a lot of people have reported the freaking issue ( but it’s common on Fox forks ). But you’ll most likely encounter the POS mud guard breaking.
> 
> This is my third one that broke (not on the trail but the wind / buffeting from the freeway ) this weekend driving from Oakridge, OR back to NorCal - different car this time as well ( but same One UP rack which doesn’t touch the mud guard at all )


I've seen this issue reported online (not remembering specifically where). My plan was just to re-enforce the fender there with a washer or something, and/or to try to see if I can cut new slots in my current fender (MuckyNuts MugGuard Long, probably one of my favorite wet weather riding upgrades), and potentially just install it backwards.

And, the MugGuard survived 2 x 1800 mile round trips on top of my car this year at speeds up above 80mph (the speed limit for Idaho is almost all 80mph) with no ill affects. So I'm fairly confident in that one not breaking.


----------



## Brad_99 (Oct 16, 2021)

Currently looking for some help, doing a service on the forks and taking out the low speed cap went to take it out and it took the whole valve out? See in picture. But it won't screw back in and was wondering if anyone could help with this. I have mezzer pro forks


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

Brad_99 said:


> Currently looking for some help, doing a service on the forks and taking out the low speed cap went to take it out and it took the whole valve out? See in picture. But it won't screw back in and was wondering if anyone could help with this. I have mezzer pro forks
> View attachment 1952654
> View attachment 1952655
> View attachment 1952656
> ...


I'd like to help but have no clue sorry


Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

ocnLogan said:


> All this talk of CSU creaking doesn't give me lots of confidence, having recently ordered (and not received) mine yet.
> 
> How long did you guys have your Mezzers before they started creaking?


18 month riding no cracking

hint: make sure that the topcaps (air and damping) are proper tightened with the correct torque. they must be tightened enough to support the connection crown / stanchions


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

gfelix said:


> 18 month riding no cracking
> 
> hint: make sure that the topcaps (air and damping) are proper tightened with the correct torque. they must be tightened enough to support the connection crown / stanchions


Entirely possible that caused my issues, I didn't realize that the top caps had anything to do with tensioning that system.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd guess that most of the complaints here have to do with the steerer/crown interface. 

I'm happy to announce Manitou recently made good on my issues there, providing what appears to be a permanent solution. A bit of a process going through this but worth the wait...


----------



## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

What did they do? I've been waiting for a new CSU for about 3 months. I'm on a different fork anyway but I'm planning on using the mezzer on another bike later.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

They provided a new CSU that, by appearance, has the steerer fully inserted. Sounds like the US facility now has the ability to take care of the issue, hopefully freeing up available stock.

It's been worth the wait IMO!

EDIT: latest replacement CSU was flogged hard and passed the test. So very nice to be back on this fork.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So, if anyone had a great thought to put a 29er wheel in 27.5 lowers, since there appears to be plenty of room, it's not a good idea. While the reverse arch has plenty of spare space, there is only 5mm of spare clearance with a 27.5x2.4 tire, so a 29" wheel, even with a smaller tire, would certainly not clear at bottom out, actually I wouldn't be surprised if some 2.6" ones give a slight buzz, certainly proper 2.8".
27.5 wheel w true 2.4" tire set @180mm travel


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Most forks say 29/27.5+ so not really a surprise that a 2.6-2.8 27.5 is probably too big.


----------



## Fr34k2h0w (Feb 1, 2021)

Hey, I have had the same fender break at the same spot on my Mattoc Pro. The fender is extremely flimsy....

I have a 3D printer, I may design something to work with the fender to attach it better....or maybe a whole new fender entirely. But I am definitely not shelling out $25 for a new one....


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

piciu256 said:


> Does anyone know how the stock Mezzer compression damping setup compares to the Mattocs? There is more travel, so I guess you could get away with a bit less, I removed one of the shims as recommended, but after reading some more and thinking about it, I think I'll add it back in, I know how to tell if I have too much, but I definitely cannot tell if I have too little, for reference I'm now running LSC closed HSC open in a 150mm Mattoc pro with .15mm compression shim (tried 1 click/ minimal preload, no harshness but hands were getting tired faster, 2 clicks was harsh)
> Thinking I'll change the oil to the RSF 2.5 instead of the Motorex, better VI can be beneficial for cold days as I'll probably land at rebound fully open, so might as well put the comp shim back in


The ratio of main to IRT should still be relevant, and since the dampers are similar they should work the same.

That said, if you can’t find a magic combo with the compression and rebound settings, you should play with pressures.

It doesn’t make sense to run LSC closed, I have two Mattocs, I run a click or two of LSC depending on terrain.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> The ratio of main to IRT should still be relevant, and since the dampers are similar they should work the same.
> That said, if you can’t find a magic combo with the compression and rebound settings, you should play with pressures.
> It doesn’t make sense to run LSC closed, I have two Mattocs, I run a click or two of LSC depending on terrain.


I run the more Dougal approved method. Low air pressure more LSC. I like that combo. It seems to eat up / go through the travel for me. But, my Mezzer is 160mm on a 63 HA hardtail and my experience seems to differ more than others.

I am 200 pounds gear up and run
35 psi main
IRT 40 psi
LSC4+6 (from open depending on terrain)
HSC1 (from open)
Rebound is 6 (from closed)

No one else seems to run pressures as low as mine. 

Don't be afraid to experiment, for me this fork has been good. Unlike by Rockshox which feel harsh the second I add any clicks of LSC, this fork doesn't. So seconding the notion to play with pressures and don't be afraid to go "too low" and use the LSC to control it.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

cassieno said:


> Don't be afraid to experiment, for me this fork has been good. Unlike by Rockshox which feel harsh the second I add any clicks of LSC, this fork doesn't. So seconding the notion to play with pressures and don't be afraid to go "too low" and use the LSC to control it.


I think quite a few noted that low speed compression settings on this fork doesn't seem to do much. I have both the Mezzer Pro, and the Expert and the Expert's damper low compression knob actually feels like it's doing something unlike the pro. On the pro, it seems as if only the high speed compression setting works.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

If by not much you mean no difference in parking lot test than yes, it does make a noticeable change on trail though.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

cassieno said:


> Most forks say 29/27.5+ so not really a surprise that a 2.6-2.8 27.5 is probably too big.


I run a 2.6 x 27.5 in mine without issue.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

funks said:


> I think quite a few noted that low speed compression settings on this fork doesn't seem to do much. I have both the Mezzer Pro, and the Expert and the Expert's damper low compression knob actually feels like it's doing something unlike the pro. On the pro, it seems as if only the high speed compression setting works.


That's definitely not my experience... the range goes from free to nearing pedal platform like control on mine. 

Just another data point. Perhaps there's variances in manufacturing.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

cassieno said:


> I run the more Dougal approved method. Low air pressure more LSC. I like that combo. It seems to eat up / go through the travel for me. But, my Mezzer is 160mm on a 63 HA hardtail and my experience seems to differ more than others.
> 
> I am 200 pounds gear up and run
> 35 psi main
> ...


Your's are much lower than most. I am lower than most on mine (at 150mm which should put my equivalent pressures about 5 psi higher than yours) and the same 200 pounds. My settings have ended up at:

50 psi main
IRT 80 psi
LSC 4 out (from closed) 
HSC1 in (from open)
Rebound is 7 out (from closed)

I am on a FS bike and ride some aggressive terrain (but not that fast) so likely have a bit higher speeds.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

EatsDirt said:


> That's definitely not my experience... the range goes from free to nearing pedal platform like control on mine.
> 
> Just another data point. Perhaps there's variances in manufacturing.


Preach, brother! Manitou stuff is the first time where I felt like compression clicks actually made a difference. Air pressure feels good but it's diving too much during hard cornering? Dial up some LSC.



funks said:


> I think quite a few noted that low speed compression settings on this fork doesn't seem to do much. I have both the Mezzer Pro, and the Expert and the Expert's damper low compression knob actually feels like it's doing something unlike the pro. On the pro, it seems as if only the high speed compression setting works.


You may have some stiction issues due to bushings that need burnishing. My first Mezzer Pro definitely needed that done but my next two were much better in that regard.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> So, if anyone had a great thought to put a 29er wheel in 27.5 lowers, since there appears to be plenty of room, it's not a good idea. While the reverse arch has plenty of spare space, there is only 5mm of spare clearance with a 27.5x2.4 tire, so a 29" wheel, even with a smaller tire, would certainly not clear at bottom out, actually I wouldn't be surprised if some 2.6" ones give a slight buzz, certainly proper 2.8".
> 27.5 wheel w true 2.4" tire set @180mm travel
> View attachment 1954496


Your fork may not be extended to full height. These have plenty of clearance for a true 2.8" without the mudguard and a 2.6 under the mudguard. You can squeeze most 2.8's under the guard.


cassieno said:


> Most forks say 29/27.5+ so not really a surprise that a 2.6-2.8 27.5 is probably too big.


See above, 2.8 is fine.


cassieno said:


> I run the more Dougal approved method. Low air pressure more LSC. I like that combo. It seems to eat up / go through the travel for me. But, my Mezzer is 160mm on a 63 HA hardtail and my experience seems to differ more than others.
> 
> I am 200 pounds gear up and run
> 35 psi main
> ...


I would check your pressures with another pump. I'd expect you to be ~10-15 psi higher than those. But if you use the same pump all the time it doesn't really matter.



funks said:


> I think quite a few noted that low speed compression settings on this fork doesn't seem to do much. I have both the Mezzer Pro, and the Expert and the Expert's damper low compression knob actually feels like it's doing something unlike the pro. On the pro, it seems as if only the high speed compression setting works.


The Pro has a true low speed port. It is sized small to choke out so the shim stack takes over at higher shaft speeds. You can feel a huge difference on slow speed compressions.

The Expert has one dial that adds preload to the stack. It's not just a low speed damping dial.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Now with Fall upon us and winter soon, I wanted to look at getting a mudguard. And I’ve narrowed it down to the Mucky Nutz mudguard. But before I buy it, just wondering if it will work with the Mezzer Pro’s reverse arch? Does that pose any problems or not at all?

And if anyone has used a Mucky Nutz guard, do you think the normal or long is the best way to go? The normal/short one looks plenty long at 400mm, but I’ve never run a mudguard so I don’t know if short/normal or long is the best way to go?

Thanks


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

SuperWookie said:


> Now with Fall upon us and winter soon, I wanted to look at getting a mudguard. And I’ve narrowed it down to the Mucky Nutz mudguard. But before I buy it, just wondering if it will work with the Mezzer Pro’s reverse arch? Does that pose any problems or not at all?
> 
> And if anyone has used a Mucky Nutz guard, do you think the normal or long is the best way to go? The normal/short one looks plenty long at 400mm, but I’ve never run a mudguard so I don’t know if short/normal or long is the best way to go?
> 
> Thanks


Which mucky nutz guard? I’ve got the short, and long versions of their “mug guard”, but haven’t modified them to fit the Mezzer yet, as I just barely got it 

A few notes though:

Mocking up the Mugguard long on the Mezzer, I found that everything lined up perfectly if I put it in backwards. I haven't installed it like that to check and see if it was super functional in that orientation. The only worry I have is that the long part would then be on the front side, rather than the rearward side. Not sure which orientation is better, or if it would get all floppy or something, but it does line up perfectly.

Also, I will say, that for where I live, the long version is hands down the better fender between the two sizes. I had previously ordered the short one thinking "hey, its about twice as large as my freebee zip tie on one, so it must be large enough". It was better, but it wasn't large enough. The large version though blocks almost everything, with only the extra wet days that I start getting stuff in my eyes/face again, and even then its only occasional.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

ocnLogan said:


> Which mucky nutz guard? I’ve got the short, and long versions of their “mug guard”, but haven’t modified them to fit the Mezzer yet, as I just barely got it
> 
> A few notes though:
> 
> ...


The regular one. There is a short 400mm and a long 600. I'm just trying to find out if either will work with the Mezzer Pro fork?





MugGuard, Short - Lightweight MTB Mud Guard made of 100% recycled plastic!


MugGuard, Short - Lightweight MTB Mud Guard made of 100% recycled plastic!



muckynutz.com









MugGuard, Long - Lightweight MTB Mud Guard made of 100% recycled plastic!


MugGuard, Long - Lightweight MTB Mud Guard made of 100% recycled plastic!



muckynutz.com


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

funks said:


> Not a lot of people have reported the freaking issue ( but it’s common on Fox forks ). But you’ll most likely encounter the POS mud guard breaking.
> 
> This is my third one that broke (not on the trail but the wind / buffeting from the freeway ) this weekend driving from Oakridge, OR back to NorCal - different car this time as well ( but same One UP rack which doesn’t touch the mud guard at all )
> 
> Each time, 25$ - anybody else here found something else that fits this reverse arch?


Install the center screw with a small washer, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN the side screws, allow the fender to flex, that’ll prevent breakage.

Having the side screws too tight will force the fender to bend down, putting pressure on your center screw.

Ive run this fender on a couple Mattoc and a couple Mezzer and I have yet to break a fender.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> Install the center screw with a small washer, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN the side screws, allow the fender to flex, that’ll prevent breakage.
> 
> Having the side screws too tight will force the fender to bend down, putting pressure on your center screw.
> 
> Ive run this fender on a couple Mattoc and a couple Mezzer and I have yet to break a fender.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my second Mezzer a couple days ago, I am a bg Manitou fanboi, but my first Mezzer was not so great, I was an early adaptor and could never find the sweet spot. This time I think the Mezzer has really evolved, Manitou definitely has it figured out, no sticktion, not loose, adjustments make a noticeable difference.

I'm 200#, fork is set at 160mm on a Canfield Tilt, HTA is ~ 64 deg, from full open running R 6, LSC 0-1, HSC 0-1, IRT 75, Main 50. Supple and supportive, no bottom outs, using 80-90% of travel depending on what I'm doing, might hammer some bigger drops and chunder this weekend if it doesn't get too wet.

Still in love with both my Mara Pro shocks


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> Got my second Mezzer a couple days ago, I am a bg Manitou fanboi, but my first Mezzer was not so great, I was an early adaptor and could never find the sweet spot. This time I think the Mezzer has really evolved, Manitou definitely has it figured out, no sticktion, not loose, adjustments make a noticeable difference.
> 
> I'm 200#, fork is set at 160mm on a Canfield Tilt, HTA is ~ 64 deg, from full open running R 6, LSC 0-1, HSC 0-1, IRT 75, Main 50. Supple and supportive, no bottom outs, using 80-90% of travel depending on what I'm doing, might hammer some bigger drops and chunder this weekend if it doesn't get too wet.
> 
> Still in love with both my Mara Pro shocks


Question on this for you (and the rest of the group). I've just barely got my mezzer fitted, and barely have any time on it (10 miles, with like... 10-15min tops of decending in 1-2min long downhills at my local spot).

How are people thinking about the HBO? Are most people trying to use it as a buffer to prevent hard bottom outs? Or is it something that you end up leaning on more often?

I'm the same weight as you, on a Kona Process 153 29er (~65.5 degree HTA if that matters). I'm running the Mezzer at 170mm atm (shock pump trick, haven't opened it up yet). Yet my current PSI is higher in both the main, and IRT, and I have like ~5 clicks of LSC on the fork right now. And again, I'm barely scratching the surface of the fork tuning. Just curious how much people are trying to use the HBO to improve the sensitivity/etc.


----------



## jcmonty (Apr 11, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Question on this for you (and the rest of the group). I've just barely got my mezzer fitted, and barely have any time on it (10 miles, with like... 10-15min tops of decending in 1-2min long downhills at my local spot).
> 
> How are people thinking about the HBO? Are most people trying to use it as a buffer to prevent hard bottom outs? Or is it something that you end up leaning on more often?
> 
> I'm the same weight as you, on a Kona Process 153 29er (~65.5 degree HTA if that matters). I'm running the Mezzer at 170mm atm (shock pump trick, haven't opened it up yet). Yet my current PSI is higher in both the main, and IRT, and I have like ~5 clicks of LSC on the fork right now. And again, I'm barely scratching the surface of the fork tuning. Just curious how much people are trying to use the HBO to improve the sensitivity/etc.


I found that the hbo does exactly what it’s designed to do and takes the big hits smoothly. So, it lets you tune the air chambers and compression damping for off the top feel and midstroke without having to worrying about excessive ramp up or damping to prevent bottom out.

I haven’t checked the spreadsheet in a while , but from what I recall , most folks were lower on the air chambers than recommended to chase a bit more compliance. That’s what I have done on the various bikes I have put this fork on. 
The hbo doesn’t really work like extra compression tuning unless you are really living in the last 15% of the stroke. I think that if you were to do that, the fork would be very soft and not supportive.

tldr - tune the fork how you want it to feel and let the hbo take care of big bottom outs


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

ocnLogan said:


> Question on this for you (and the rest of the group). I've just barely got my mezzer fitted, and barely have any time on it (10 miles, with like... 10-15min tops of decending in 1-2min long downhills at my local spot).
> 
> How are people thinking about the HBO? Are most people trying to use it as a buffer to prevent hard bottom outs? Or is it something that you end up leaning on more often?
> 
> I'm the same weight as you, on a Kona Process 153 29er (~65.5 degree HTA if that matters). I'm running the Mezzer at 170mm atm (shock pump trick, haven't opened it up yet). Yet my current PSI is higher in both the main, and IRT, and I have like ~5 clicks of LSC on the fork right now. And again, I'm barely scratching the surface of the fork tuning. Just curious how much people are trying to use the HBO to improve the sensitivity/etc.


I finally got the Mezzer on some steep chunky terrain, 5k vertical on the Ophir Crerk trail, starts at Tahoe Meadows and ends at Washoe State Park.

I kept the Mezzer at 50 main/75 IRT, LSC and HSC open, the first big hits (diving off granite blocks) had me using all the travel though there wasn’t any noticeable bottom out. I added one click of HSC and that kept me sitting high the remainder of the ride.

Compared to the Mattoc, the Mezzer was more damp and more plush, I didn’t get hand or forearm cramping, and I wasn’t tired at the end.

Dougal suggests dropping pressure until the LSC and HSC can be used to control action, based on this I’ll probably reduce my main s touch more so I’m using LSC.


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

Hello guys , since the colder weather I've noticed a knocking sound when I push repeatedly on the fork for the first 2-3 cm of travel. If I close the LSC all the way, the knocking is more pronounced than with LSC fully opened. HSC or rebound doesn't seem to make any difference, only LSC affect the power of the knock. Do you think that is something that I have to investigate more, maybe warranty?


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Hi. I want to share my mezzer pro settings. Im 83kg, bike is a mullet propain tyee with 160 mm fork, 51 mm offset and 63 deg hta. I run 53 psi main, 67 psi irt, lsc fully closed , hsc 2-3 clicks from open and rebound 0-4 from open depending on mood and terrain. Works great.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

I finally figured out how to permanently fix the mezzer fender breaking all the time, got so tired of it. Didn't even need a 3d printed plastic thing!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So the HBO in the Mezzer is not externally adjustable like the Mattoc, or am I missing something?


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Nurse Ben said:


> So the HBO in the Mezzer is not externally adjustable like the Mattoc, or am I missing something?


No, it is not. Dials on the Mezzer are HSC, LSC, Rebound. You can somewhat tune positive and negative chamber size (sort of) and you have a ramp chamber instead of tokens.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

jupitersending said:


> I finally figured out how to permanently fix the mezzer fender breaking all the time, got so tired of it. Didn't even need a 3d printed plastic thing!
> 
> 
> View attachment 1956808


What kind of mudguard is that? And is it just attached with zip ties at the top? It's hard to tell what you did exactly. I'd be VERY interested in trying this out, as the stock one is so small and doesn't do much. Thanks


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

SuperWookie said:


> What kind of mudguard is that? And is it just attached with zip ties at the top? It's hard to tell what you did exactly. I'd be VERY interested in trying this out, as the stock one is so small and doesn't do much. Thanks


Hey,
it's an older version of the mudhugger in the link below.
It doesn't fit the Mezzer from stock, but I just drilled a few holes in it and it's fine. I did one super hard bottom out where I think I went through the HBO too in spectacular fashion and it did make a short buzz sound. I don't know if it was the mudhugger or something else. It could be that I mounted it a but too far back. I am still not 100% sure what made the sound.









MUDHUGGER EVO (LONG) - Ziptie fitting: with optional VELCRO FITTING PACKS AVAILABLE


PRICE INCLUDES UK SHIPPING Are you ready? The worlds fastest mudguard is evolving… The Mudhugger EVO Ziptie, designed with the help of DH World Cup and EWS racers. FOR QR fiting and removal VELCRO FITTING PACKS ARE AVAILABLE TO PURCHASE SEPERATELY - CLICK HERE Length 515mm - Rear extension...




www.themudhugger.co.uk


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

jupitersending said:


> Hey,
> it's an older version of the mudhugger in the link below.
> It doesn't fit the Mezzer from stock, but I just drilled a few holes in it and it's fine. I did one super hard bottom out where I think I went through the HBO too in spectacular fashion and it did make a short buzz sound. I don't know if it was the mudhugger or something else. It could be that I mounted it a but too far back. I am still not 100% sure what made the sound.
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks. But how did you attach it? It looks like there are zip ties up high near the arch. But that mudhugger doesn't have any plastic tabs to hold it on top. Just the sides? So how did you rig that all up? Do you have other photos you can share and describe what you did? Thanks


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

SuperWookie said:


> Ok, thanks. But how did you attach it? It looks like there are zip ties up high near the arch. But that mudhugger doesn't have any plastic tabs to hold it on top. Just the sides? So how did you rig that all up? Do you have other photos you can share and describe what you did? Thanks


Dunno how much you can see from the pics, but the top holes I drilled myself and the ones going down with the lower legs were already in. Fit's very securely and snug to the fork and the plastic is a lot thicker than the flimsy mezzer one.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

jupitersending said:


> Dunno how much you can see from the pics, but the top holes I drilled myself and the ones going down with the lower legs were already in. Fit's very securely and snug to the fork and the plastic is a lot thicker than the flimsy mezzer one.
> View attachment 1956933
> 
> View attachment 1956934


Ohhhh, I see what you did. Got it. Thanks dude, I'm going to order one of those right away


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Dropping the fork to 150mm made me use more reasonable air pressures for my weight (200 with gear). I was running 35 main 65 IRT at 160mm. I am up at 47psi main and 85 IRT now and still need to increase the air pressure. My guess is somewhere around 55 main and 100 IRT is where I'll end up. Unsure why doing an airspring service / adjusting travel made such a big difference. 

Fork is so good.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I have a 27.5 mezzer pro for sale with brand new lowers (2 rides on them) that I burnished. I updated rebound shim stack to newest version as well. Thanks to the burnishing this is one seriously slippery mezzer. 7 3/4" steerer. 37mm offset

New bike is 29" so I have a new mezzer on the way and unfortunately can't pass this one over. Feel free to message if interested. Hoping for 700 plus shipping. (In SF bay area)





Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

fallenmojo said:


> Hello guys , since the colder weather I've noticed a knocking sound when I push repeatedly on the fork for the first 2-3 cm of travel. If I close the LSC all the way, the knocking is more pronounced than with LSC fully opened. HSC or rebound doesn't seem to make any difference, only LSC affect the power of the knock. Do you think that is something that I have to investigate more, maybe warranty?


Here is a video with the knocking sound (first LSC is open after that I close it), it seems that there is something with the valves/shims.

Video:


http://imgur.com/a/Rk5rNn4


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

mike156 said:


> Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.


Interested too


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

FYI, Unior has a 37mm driver for around $25. Works great.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

fallenmojo said:


> Here is a video with the knocking sound (first LSC is open after that I close it), it seems that there is something with the valves/shims.
> 
> Video:
> 
> ...


Warranty!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

EatsDirt said:


> FYI, Unior has a 37mm driver for around $25. Works great.


Finally. I am set with seal drivers with this. Well at least until Rockshox comes out with a new fork with a 36.49 mm stanchion.


----------



## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

fallenmojo said:


> Here is a video with the knocking sound (first LSC is open after that I close it), it seems that there is something with the valves/shims.
> 
> Video:
> 
> ...


I would be recommending the warranty route, my guess from what you’ve described/tested is something to do with the check valve on the base valve, or maybe a loose piston bolt. Defo get it looked at ASAP


----------



## fallenmojo (May 25, 2019)

Went to the LBS from where I got the fork (they do suspension service too) and they looked at my fork. It seems that the thing in the below video was a little loose. Now I can still hear a knock when the LSC is fully closed but is not that loud. The guys from the shop said that the knock is just the oil passing through shims which makes them flex and that I shouldn't be worried. 


http://imgur.com/a/3qsP8hk


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Anybody know if Manitou will have a 25% off Black Friday sale like they did previously?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

funks said:


> Anybody know if Manitou will have a 25% off Black Friday sale like they did previously?


Yes, in 2023.


----------



## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

if only there's a mezzer coil version..


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Why though? Have you ridden a modern air fork? There is really not much if any benefit to coil up front anymore, it's heavier, less adjustable etc. and air with 3 chambers like in the Mezzer offers as much if not more mid stroke support than coil, and it's adjustable.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Cary said:


> Yes, in 2023.


They are offering 15% for BF - albeit it was much cheaper when I bought it during 2020 BF - lol

Weird that the German stores (bike-discount.de) is able to sell it for 833$ shipped (Mezzer Pro)


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> Why though? Have you ridden a modern air fork? There is really not much if any benefit to coil up front anymore, it's heavier, less adjustable etc. and air with 3 chambers like in the Mezzer offers as much if not more mid stroke support than coil, and it's adjustable.


I have to disagree with you, I own a Mezzer and while it's probably the best air fork I've owned it still can't compare to a coil specially with sensitivity/small bump and consistency. On smooth center trail/jump lines is not as noticeable but for what I ride here in Arizona and the South West that's covered on square edge rocks coil is substantially better imo, that's why I moved the Mezzer to my trail bike and getting an Avalanche hybrid coil Fox 38 for my long travel/Park bike.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

You change too many things at once to be in a position to reliably say what you felt was a difference between air and coil, chassis and damper tune have a lot of impact on how the fork feels as well, cannot just ingore those as variables.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> You change too many things at once to be in a position to reliably say what you felt was a difference between air and coil, chassis and damper tune have a lot of impact on how the fork feels as well, cannot just ingore those as variables.


Not really, I had an Avalanche tuned Yari that I rode for a while with stock B1 Debonair spring then I tried a Luftkappe, a DSD Runt and Smashpot. So same damper and bike only changing spring type and the coil wins on small bump every time, there just isn't a quad seal creating friction. I'm not knocking on the Mezzer, I still own it and it's hard to beat without going full custom, it's a great fork


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I mean, there is already so little friction coming from the air spring that I cannot see removing it entirely making that much difference, a couple of years ago it was a different story. I'd venture to bet the difference you felt came from the increased volume of lubricating oil in the lower leg, thanks to the open bath hydraulic bottom out damper of the smashpot.
I see the lower maintenance benefit of coil though, not worth the increased weight and less adjustability for me personally.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

If anybody is out there looking for a brand new Mezzer MC2 Damper (maybe to upgrade their Expert) - got one for sale (200$).


Part Number: 141-36713-K022



https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3210432/



I purchased one a while back hoping to upgrade the Mezzer Expert on one of my bikes (Mojo 4) to the Pro ( already upgraded it with an IRT ) but decided to sell the bike instead. Would have returned it but it's a special order item.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

piciu256 said:


> I mean, there is already so little friction coming from the air spring that I cannot see removing it entirely making that much difference, a couple of years ago it was a different story. I'd venture to bet the difference you felt came from the increased volume of lubricating oil in the lower leg, thanks to the open bath hydraulic bottom out damper of the smashpot.
> I see the lower maintenance benefit of coil though, not worth the increased weight and less adjustability for me personally.


I'm not saying it's a huge difference but it's there, I have both right now and I can get the coil fork moving with just a finger on the bars. I agree on the weight, that's why I have the Mezzer on a new trance X Advanced I just built as my main bike and the Fox 38 is on my Enduro S-Works I built and that bike is basically my mini DH/Shuttle bike so weight is not an issue. Also both forks have the bushings burnished and that made a big difference on the Mezzer.


----------



## kimochi (Jan 21, 2019)

piciu256 said:


> Why though? Have you ridden a modern air fork? There is really not much if any benefit to coil up front anymore, it's heavier, less adjustable etc. and air with 3 chambers like in the Mezzer offers as much if not more mid stroke support than coil, and it's adjustable.


yea, I have couple forks - pike with dsd runt, lyik with acs3 and now a helm coil. seems mezzer is closer to dsd runt. i like it for small bump, but it has too much ramp up for my taste. i prefer coil as it is easier to dial in for my liking. was looking for a coil fork a while back and decided to go with the helm. if mezzer had a coil option, i would have gotten that instead.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

EatsDirt said:


> New CSU pic followed by current one (still settling)
> View attachment 1944632
> 
> View attachment 1944633


My steerer didn't go all the way through either. Mine is a MY21. Is it suppose to extend out from the bottom? My fox does. Not sure if it's bad if it doesn't. Anyone know for sure?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

For sure it's supposed to be flush, I wouldn't bother with varrantying it though, you can pres it in all the way with a press or just ride till it settles, if adjusting your headset every ride with larger features doesn't bother you too much.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

kimochi said:


> but it has too much ramp up for my taste


This too is not necessarily caused by the air spring itself, the lowers have little volume at bottom out and there is up to 180mm of travel, there ought to be a lot of ramp up (both Fox and RS have worked in things to lower this phenomenon recently), unless you open up the uppers like most of the conversion kits do, or like a negative coil spring allows, but that one has its own set of issues.
If you're that set on a coil spring, there is nothing stopping you from getting a Smashpot and producing a set of custom adapters at a machine shop by the way.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Someone posted a picture of the bottom of the steerer tube protruding out of the crown a little. My fox 36 looks like that.
Other pics I've seen has the steerer tube pressed flushed with the bottom of the crown.
Which is the correct way? I'd imagine it's best if it's pressed flushed. Anyone know for sure?

I took my old plastic fender and just drilled holes to fit the Mezzer. Since the arch is towards the back, this works nicely and extends rearward the same distance as my fox 36.\
My front hub doesn't slide in smoothly. I'm guessing the distance between the legs is a little less than 110mm. I have to push them apart just a little, no biggie.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

The axle flanges have a lip at the bottom. You have to stretch the legs to clear the lip. This keeps the wheel from falling out when you pull the axle.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Does anyone else have any issues with the main air chamber losing pressure?

Im still in the shakedown/setting testing phase with my fork, having only been on a few short rides with it so far.

I initially set my main air pressure somewhere around 50-55psi (analog shock pump). That was a few weeks ago.

On Tuesday of this week I went on another ride, and went to lower the main pressure a bit to get more sensitivity/play with some setting. And after connecting the shock pump, it was reading somewhere around 35psi or so.

I believe the shock pump was fully connected (could move the fork through its travel by hand), and I know it has to pressurize the shock pump… but dropping 15 psi like that? Is that normal, or do I have a seal somewhere having issues in this thing?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Set your pressure again, then disconnect and reconnect the pump to get your reference pressure for that set point and that pump.

Keep in mind temp changes will have an effect too. If you set it on a hot summer day and checked on a cold day it has an impact.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

CCS86 said:


> Set your pressure again, then disconnect and reconnect the pump to get your reference pressure for that set point and that pump.
> 
> Keep in mind temp changes will have an effect too. If you set it on a hot summer day and checked on a cold day it has an impact.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Good idea, I’ll check again today. Hopefully it’s nothing to worry about.

Temp could have impact, but unlikely in this case, we’re in the “foggy/rainy/cloudy” phase of the PNW. Temps fluctuate, but I’d guess they were off by less than 10f between rides. So I’d doubt that could coarse that much loss.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

ocnLogan said:


> Good idea, I’ll check again today. Hopefully it’s nothing to worry about.
> 
> Temp could have impact, but unlikely in this case, we’re in the “foggy/rainy/cloudy” phase of the PNW. Temps fluctuate, but I’d guess they were off by less than 10f between rides. So I’d doubt that could coarse that much loss.


Just went and checked.

The fork was about 30psi or so?

I pumped up to 50psi in the main, and then connected and disconnected the pump about 5 times. The pressure at the end still showed as 50psi.

I checked the IRT, was at about 75psi. I can’t recall exactly what it was before. But I Pumped it back to 80psi, just so I know what it is. And tonight sometime I’ll check both pressures and see if I’ve lost something. 

I currently have a Topeak pocketshox dsg shock pump. It’s got the two stage connection to lose less air pressure, make set peoples mind at ease when you connect/disconnect it from the shock.

at this point though, I’m a bit worried I’ve got an air leak somewhere. I was down at least 5psi from Tuesday, and at least 15-20psi from my ride two weeks ago.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Are you sure the chambers are equalising properly?


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> Are you sure the chambers are equalising properly?


Pretty sure?

I can move the fork through it’s travel by hand when the shock pump is attached. Which iirc is the main way to tell if the pump is fully connected and both chambers are being filled at the same time.

Maybe I’m missing something?

also, wouldn’t that mean that my fork would behave strange, but it wouldn’t cause it to lose pressure between rides would it?


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> For sure it's supposed to be flush, I wouldn't bother with varrantying it though, you can pres it in all the way with a press or just ride till it settles, if adjusting your headset every ride with larger features doesn't bother you too much.


thanks. My Mezzer is flushed.
My fox 36 is not flushed and I've looked at a few others and they aren't flushed either. I guess as long as it won't go in anymore, it should be fine but if you need more steerer  you can hammer it in more. haha


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

ocnLogan said:


> Maybe I’m missing something?


I mean, the volume of the chambers is quite large, the pressure must have went somewhere, it didn't go to the IRT I don't think, as there isn't much pressure differential when cycling, it could have went to the lowers, but surely you would have noticed the greatly increased friction, and it would have needed to go through the negative chamber first anyway, so it should have sucked the fork way down, is there any possibility you set a different pressure than you thought or somehow released it when disconnecting or reconnecting the pump?


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> I mean, the volume of the chambers is quite large, the pressure must have went somewhere, it didn't go to the IRT I don't think, as there isn't much pressure differential when cycling, it could have went to the lowers, but surely you would have noticed the greatly increased friction, and it would have needed to go through the negative chamber first anyway, so it should have sucked the fork way down, is there any possibility you set a different pressure than you thought or somehow released it when disconnecting or reconnecting the pump?


I checked my pressure today, almost exactly 24hrs since my last check.

The main chamber lost ~5psi, using the same pump, and method that I did 5x in a row yesterday without changing the pressure. IRT hasn’t changed at all. Garage air temp is within a few degrees of identical (2-5f off tops). 

Fork isn’t sucking down (it’s in the stand at the moment though), and last ride I didn’t notice any weirdness with the way it behaved.

Still “seems” like I’m losing pressure atm.

any thoughts on what could cause that? Is it just a seal oring somewhere?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The only thing that would make sense imo is losing air through the valve itself 🤔 aspecially since the fork wasn't moving.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I'm not saying it's a huge difference but it's there, I have both right now and I can get the coil fork moving with just a finger on the bars. I agree on the weight, that's why I have the Mezzer on a new trance X Advanced I just built as my main bike and the Fox 38 is on my Enduro S-Works I built and that bike is basically my mini DH/Shuttle bike so weight is not an issue. Also both forks have the bushings burnished and that made a big difference on the Mezzer.



I'm on an Era my wife is on the Mezzer. Both Re great for an air-fork. But stiction and air temperature changes are not an issue with coil. I'm very curious about the hybrid Avy. If pressure is low enough to not have stiction be an issue.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I hate to ask, but anybody running the Mezzer @ 130mm? I picked up a Tallboy CC to build, and i have a spare Mezzer around. The R7 doesn't come in 130mm and the Manitou damper is the only one i've found (besides going custom) that really suits me. 

I'm pretty sure i saw some people saying they were using it at 130mm without issue. Is there any need to artificially decrease the size of the IRT (I'm assuming the IRT/Main is a ratio and @130 it's probably not ideal)? Any other changes to consider?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm on an Era my wife is on the Mezzer. Both Re great for an air-fork. But stiction and air temperature changes are not an issue with coil. I'm very curious about the hybrid Avy. If pressure is low enough to not have stiction be an issue.


I won't have mine back for a few weeks most likely but I'll let you know after I get a couple rides with it but I'm only 150lbs so I should only need to run like 20-30 psi so friction shouldn't be much if an issue. I was intrigued about the ERA but I just couldn't see it being twice as good as the Mezzer giving the price is almost double.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I won't have mine back for a few weeks most likely but I'll let you know after I get a couple rides with it but I'm only 150lbs so I should only need to run like 20-30 psi so friction shouldn't be much if an issue. I was intrigued about the ERA but I just couldn't see it being twice as good as the Mezzer giving the price is almost double.





jacksonlui said:


> Someone posted a picture of the bottom of the steerer tube protruding out of the crown a little. My fox 36 looks like that.
> Other pics I've seen has the steerer tube pressed flushed with the bottom of the crown.
> Which is the correct way? I'd imagine it's best if it's pressed flushed. Anyone know for sure?
> 
> ...


The steerer is supposed to extend a bit. If it gets overloaded the lip catches it. The steerers I press all get pressed home though.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

ungod said:


> I hate to ask, but anybody running the Mezzer @ 130mm? I picked up a Tallboy CC to build, and i have a spare Mezzer around. The R7 doesn't come in 130mm and the Manitou damper is the only one i've found (besides going custom) that really suits me.
> 
> I'm pretty sure i saw some people saying they were using it at 130mm without issue. Is there any need to artificially decrease the size of the IRT (I'm assuming the IRT/Main is a ratio and @130 it's probably not ideal)? Any other changes to consider?




I have the same exact question (probably looking at an expert + IRT.). Is the IRT size that matters? or is it the size of the negative spring ?

Enjoy your Tallboy. 
I am riding a TB4 C. GREAT frame.

Oren


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I won't have mine back for a few weeks most likely but I'll let you know after I get a couple rides with it but I'm only 150lbs so I should only need to run like 20-30 psi so friction shouldn't be much if an issue. I was intrigued about the ERA but I just couldn't see it being twice as good as the Mezzer giving the price is almost double.


The Era is better. But it's far from being twice as good Maybe 100.00 better. For the price of the Era it should be custom tuned to rider weight.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Cerberus75 said:


> The Era is better


It doesn't have hydraulic bottom out though, for me that's more important than a bit less striction, so discounting the price, it depends on ones preferences.



OrenPerets said:


> Is the IRT size important?


I'd say so, aspecially when operating the fork at different than designed travel, the chamber balance will be out of whack, I'd say shorten the irt (a piece of plastic tube as a spacer below the piston) the same amount you lower the travel from 180, I think I may even do so for going down to 170, if I end up doing so, I've read many people mention the fork works best when set @180, might be because of said volume balance.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

piciu256 said:


> I'd say so, aspecially when operating the fork at different than designed travel, the chamber balance will be out of whack, I'd say shorten the irt (a piece of plastic tube as a spacer below the piston) the same amount you lower the travel from 180, I think I may even do so for going down to 170, if I end up doing so, I've read many people mention the fork works best when set @180, might be because of said volume balance.


That was my thought, but I wasn't sure what to base the IRT reduction on. I think if i were designing the fork, i'd base the IRT ratio around a 160mm travel (halfway in the 140-180 range) and live with deficiencies on both ends, rather than design around 180. But who knows, i'll just experiment and see what works.

Adding spacers to reduce travel takes care of the negative chamber volume so nothing else needed there.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> It doesn't have hydraulic bottom out though, for me that's more important than a bit less striction, so discounting the price, it depends on ones preferences.
> 
> 
> In the end I wanted air fo





piciu256 said:


> It doesn't have hydraulic bottom out though, for me that's more important than a bit less striction, so discounting the price, it depends on ones preferences.
> 
> 
> I'd say so, aspecially when operating the fork at different than designed travel, the chamber balance will be out of whack, I'd say shorten the irt (a piece of plastic tube as a spacer below the piston) the same amount you lower the travel from 180, I think I may even do so for going down to 170, if I end up doing so, I've read many people mention the fork works best when set @180, might be because of said volume balance.




Stiction is one thing the damper is slightly better out of the box. I'm sure I could change some shims to get what I wanted from the Mezzer. But out of the box it performs better the 90% of the time when not bottoming out. My shock has HBO and the fork should as well for the price.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

piciu256 said:


> It doesn't have hydraulic bottom out though, for me that's more important than a bit less striction, so discounting the price, it depends on ones preferences.
> 
> 
> I'd say so, aspecially when operating the fork at different than designed travel, the chamber balance will be out of whack, I'd say shorten the irt (a piece of plastic tube as a spacer below the piston) the same amount you lower the travel from 180, I think I may even do so for going down to 170, if I end up doing so, I've read many people mention the fork works best when set @180, might be because of said volume balance.


You shorten in proportion. Here is the writeup I did on the mattoc, but works the same.









Manitou Magnum (or short travel Mattoc) IRT Mod


So I have been running a Magnum Pro 120mm for several years on my plus hardtail. While it has generally worked pretty well, it has never been great (but still miles ahead of the Fox 34 with Fit4, the fit just stinks). The issue is that with the short travel, the IRT starts working so soon, it...




www.mtbr.com


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Cary said:


> You shorten in proportion. Here is the writeup I did on the mattoc, but works the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very cool, thanks Cary.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm 195#, Canfield Tilt HTA ~ 65 deg, Mezzer Pro 160mm, running IRT 75/ Main 50, LSC and HSC open, R 5/10.

Early on I was doing a big DH run with lots of hard hits, I was using up the travel so I added a click of HSC and left it alone. I have at most thirty hours on the fork.

Over the past few weeks it has felt increasingly "firm", I now use at most 70% of travel with HSC open, there are no obvious mechanical issues (clunking, stiction, noise), so I have been playing with pressures, now running IRT 640/Main 30, one click of HSC, LSC open, R 5/10. Even at these reduced pressures the fork is still riding high and feels firm.

I've even ran the rebound all open and all closed, same with compression settings, just to see if the damper is acting up. The damper works fine, open feels open.

I depressurized the fork, cycled it to full compression with no binding or resistance, reset the fork at current pressures, and it's still riding high and firm.

I even tried extremes like really reducing IRT of Main pressures.

The fork has not felt as good as it did since that first week, what's changed? Same pump.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Nurse Ben said:


> So I got my Mezzer Pro set at 160mm, off the bat it felt great, I/m 195#, Canfield Tilt HTA ~ 65 deg, running IRT 75/ Main 50, LSC and HSC open, R 5/10.
> 
> On a big DH run with lots of hard hits I was using up the travel so I added a click of HSC and left it alone. I have at most thirty hours on the fork.
> 
> ...


Have you removed the bleed screws to see if you have built up air that needs to be released? Otherwise I’d try the 25-hour service to see if it feels better afterwards.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Moosedriver said:


> Have you removed the bleed screws to see if you have built up air that needs to be released? Otherwise I’d try the 25-hour service to see if it feels better afterwards.


I thought those screws were for oiling the foam rings. I’ll try that this weekend 👍


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Nurse Ben said:


> I thought those screws were for oiling the foam rings. I’ll try that this weekend 👍


Good luck, I hope that works for you!


----------



## spicy (Sep 24, 2020)

My mudguard gave up and snapped off yesterday.

Is there a better replacement than the stock one? (Sorry, I had a quick search but 200 pages in a long thread...)

If I go for the stock one, I'm thinking that making some metal tabs to glue to the screw-holes of the mudguard will add a bit more strength. Has anyone done anything similar?


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm 195#, Canfield Tilt HTA ~ 65 deg, Mezzer Pro 160mm, running IRT 75/ Main 50, LSC and HSC open, R 5/10.
> 
> Early on I was doing a big DH run with lots of hard hits, I was using up the travel so I added a click of HSC and left it alone. I have at most thirty hours on the fork.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the same problem as I have seen on a couple mezzers. The top bushings are oversized and get oval over time if they are not already oval from factory. Measured couple new ones and almost all had a little oval top bushings. On two forks I also removed the bushings (they are glued in place) and measured the bushing seats. And it looks like the problem is in the casting since the seat is not round. It is oversized front to back. Don't know how they can not fix this. Its an issue I seen from the mattoc 3 on (new lowers with the big arch) and no one seems to talk about it. 

It seems a lottery with all manufacturers new forks these days, what fork you get or how many replacement lowers later you get lucky :/


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I don't see how post break-in bushing ovaling could cause that issue.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

I think when there is sufficient oil around the top bushing after a service its fine. But after couple of rides it starts to bind at side loading because of the oversize. I measured 37.13mm on a couple lowers and that is way past good.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Oversize doesn't cause bind.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Of course it does. The edge pressure on the bushing does it. You can also see it on worn stanchions if the lowers have oversized bushings. This can easily be tested with a fork without seals and load applied from the side. A fork with oversized bushings locks in place.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

lukam said:


> Of course it does. The edge pressure on the bushing does it. You can also see it on worn stanchions if the lowers have oversized bushings. This can easily be tested with a fork without seals and load applied from the side. A fork with oversized bushings locks in place.


My experience is exactly the opposite, and I mean way oversized, as in you can see the stanchion moving with your bare eye, no need for finger sensing. I mean a fork with loose bushings always was greatly smoother than one with even a little tight bushings.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

I can feel and see .13 mm over size if there is little to no oil between stanchion and bushing. I agree that a tight bushing has horrible effect on small bump.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I'm with @piciu256 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## jakalwil (Nov 24, 2020)

spicy said:


> My mudguard gave up and snapped off yesterday.
> 
> Is there a better replacement than the stock one? (Sorry, I had a quick search but 200 pages in a long thread...)
> 
> If I go for the stock one, I'm thinking that making some metal tabs to glue to the screw-holes of the mudguard will add a bit more strength. Has anyone done anything similar?


Sort of. Mine tore at one of the lower mounts, the bolt just worked its way through the round plastic tab over time.

As a temp fix I pinched the torn plastic back into place, dabbed super glue all around it then wrapped it tight in a double layer of gorilla tape. Bolted it on carefully while wet, the glue hardened into place and it hasn’t budged in ~4 months. I guess it’s kinda like the red neck version of carbon fiber patching


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Cary said:


> You shorten in proportion. Here is the writeup I did on the mattoc, but works the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just an update on this: I took my IRT out tonight and found that it's a 10mm shaft (like your Magnum) and the stroke is 65mm. So on the Mezzer if I assume that the IRT is designed for 180mm then i'll want a 20mm spacer to keep the ratio the same, although the spacer itself takes up some volume so it's probably wise to just go to 25mm. 

Unfortunately those 2 pieces on McMaster-Carr were $22 + $18 shipping so i decided to bail on that. I'll probably just find something at the hardware store and use a 10mm drillbit to fit it on the shaft.

Wish I had known about this on my Magnum, I had one on my old Riot and I had the same complaint about it -- really ramped up hard once the IRT kicked in. Thanks again!


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

ungod said:


> Just an update on this: I took my IRT out tonight and found that it's a 10mm shaft (like your Magnum) and the stroke is 65mm. So on the Mezzer if I assume that the IRT is designed for 180mm then i'll want a 20mm spacer to keep the ratio the same, although the spacer itself takes up some volume so it's probably wise to just go to 25mm.
> 
> Unfortunately those 2 pieces on McMaster-Carr were $22 + $18 shipping so i decided to bail on that. I'll probably just find something at the hardware store and use a 10mm drillbit to fit it on the shaft.
> 
> Wish I had known about this on my Magnum, I had one on my old Riot and I had the same complaint about it -- really ramped up hard once the IRT kicked in. Thanks again!


ACE Hardware has 3/8” ID plastic spacers that bore out to 10mm easily with a dremel.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

lukam said:


> Sounds like the same problem as I have seen on a couple mezzers. The top bushings are oversized and get oval over time if they are not already oval from factory. Measured couple new ones and almost all had a little oval top bushings. On two forks I also removed the bushings (they are glued in place) and measured the bushing seats. And it looks like the problem is in the casting since the seat is not round. It is oversized front to back. Don't know how they can not fix this. Its an issue I seen from the mattoc 3 on (new lowers with the big arch) and no one seems to talk about it.
> 
> It seems a lottery with all manufacturers new forks these days, what fork you get or how many replacement lowers later you get lucky :/


I doubt that’s what I’m experiencing, I have no significant stiction, the fork just feels like it’s running higher pressures than it is,

I need to check my pump against another pump, mine is high quality, not some cheap thing … maybe I’ll go digital next time.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

@Ben my fork felt like that when I first got it. I had the pressures dropped down to like 35/50 at 160mm and 200lbs riding weight. 

I lowered the travel and am now running much more normal pressures for my weight. Not sure what was going on, but it felt like it was running higher pressure and was riding great, but the pressures just were not aligned.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

cassieno said:


> @Ben my fork felt like that when I first got it. I had the pressures dropped down to like 35/50 at 160mm and 200lbs riding weight.
> 
> I lowered the travel and am now running much more normal pressures for my weight. Not sure what was going on, but it felt like it was running higher pressure and was riding great, but the pressures just were not aligned.


So I wonder if pulling the fork to full extension is causing some sort of wierd "set".

I'm gonna play with it this weekend. It's a great fork, but I gotta figure out a way to make it plusher, currently running 40 main/60 IRT with LSC/HSC open, it's firm and not using up all the travel regardless of how big of hit. In contrast my Mattocs are plush and the damping is usable.

Popping the plugs did nothing


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> So I wonder if pulling the fork to full extension is causing some sort of wierd "set".
> 
> I'm gonna play with it this weekend. It's a great fork, but I gotta figure out a way to make it plusher, currently running 40 main/60 IRT with LSC/HSC open, it's firm and not using up all the travel regardless of how big of hit. In contrast my Mattocs are plush and the damping is usable.
> 
> Popping the plugs did nothing


Have you burnished the bushings? Tight bushings acted like LSC (HSC too?) in my experience and after burnishing, I was able to run higher pressures and more compression (no longer fully open) while the fork felt more plush and tracked better.


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> So I wonder if pulling the fork to full extension is causing some sort of wierd "set".
> 
> I'm gonna play with it this weekend. It's a great fork, but I gotta figure out a way to make it plusher, currently running 40 main/60 IRT with LSC/HSC open, it's firm and not using up all the travel regardless of how big of hit. In contrast my Mattocs are plush and the damping is usable.
> 
> Popping the plugs did nothing


Have you tried taking the air spring off and re-greasing everything? and removing the IRT and greasing everything there as well? I'm assuming there's nothing wrong with the damper.

Those pressures sound really low, how much do you weigh?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> So I wonder if pulling the fork to full extension is causing some sort of wierd "set".
> 
> I'm gonna play with it this weekend. It's a great fork, but I gotta figure out a way to make it plusher, currently running 40 main/60 IRT with LSC/HSC open, it's firm and not using up all the travel regardless of how big of hit. In contrast my Mattocs are plush and the damping is usable.
> 
> Popping the plugs did nothing


That's sounds really low for your weight, I was running 40/60 at 170mm travel and I'm 150lbs. I would take it apart and service it to be sure event is lubed. If you were here in Phoenix I could burnish the bushings for you, I ordered all the dies from 34 to 38


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

did burnishing really make that much of a difference? how many times did you have to push it through?.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> did burnishing really make that much of a difference? how many times did you have to push it through?.


Yeah, noticeable difference at least for my fork. I did 3 full passes on each side ( 3 down and 3 up) so a total of 6 per bushing and I use Supergliss 68k for bath oil.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I bought the tool from Oliver. I'll give it a shot and see if I will notice a difference. I know my lowers are only 108mm apart but installing the hub pushes it to 110mm. I'll do a before and after with the wheel installed.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

jacksonlui said:


> I bought the tool from Oliver. I'll give it a shot and see if I will notice a difference. I know my lowers are only 108mm apart but installing the hub pushes it to 110mm. I'll do a before and after with the wheel installed.


Insert one stanchion at a time into its respective lower leg to evaluate your bushing fit. The first couple of passes do the most work as the tool knocks down the high spots.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> That's sounds really low for your weight, I was running 40/60 at 170mm travel and I'm 150lbs. I would take it apart and service it to be sure event is lubed. If you were here in Phoenix I could burnish the bushings for you, I ordered all the dies from 34 to 38


It was in fact too low, so then I noticed some other things were off like setting shock pressure, so I went and bought another pump and voila it's fixed!

I had a high quality pump from Cane Creek and apparently it went "bad". It was a gradual change so I didn't notice it until I compared it to an older cheap pump.
Bought a Fox digital pump and life is good.

I still don't use quite as much travel as I feel I should, different even than when the fork was new; I have maybe fifty hours on the fork now. 

I gotta' admit, you guys are super funny about the bushing burnishing, it reminds me of folks who insist a colon cleanse is the way to good health  

The pump thing really caught me off guard, I just assumed that a $70 pump was going to be accurate.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I dunno, I had an Ohlins RFX EVO that had the bushings burnished as part of the EVO update and it made that fork really smooth.

I picked up a Mezzer from Croakies that had the bushings burnished and it definitely made a difference compared to the non-burnished Mezzer I had.

I would characterize the feel to be similar to a Fox 36 with Secus which is coil like for small bumps, not quite as good as a coil but not very far off though.

If you blindfolded me and sent me down a trail with a Fox 36 Secus, Mezzer with burnished bushings, and a coil fork I would be pretty hard pressed to tell much of a difference there until you got in to some real janky stuff and at that point the blindfold might come in handy as a tourniquet.

The net effect there I think is that I can focus more on how I want the end stroke behavior to work versus trying to balance out everything, just one less variable to account for I guess with the burnishing.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> I gotta' admit, you guys are super funny about the bushing burnishing, it reminds me of folks who insist a colon cleanse is the way to good health




What an ignorant statement.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

You talkin to me?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> It was in fact too low, so then I noticed some other things were off like setting shock pressure, so I went and bought another pump and voila it's fixed!
> 
> I had a high quality pump from Cane Creek and apparently it went "bad". It was a gradual change so I didn't notice it until I compared it to an older cheap pump.
> Bought a Fox digital pump and life is good.
> ...


At least you found out the main issue, that's why I have 2 of those digital pumps just in case. Some forks with a ton of hours might not need burnishing as much but I haven't found a fork that didn't improve after doing them though. Pressing in bushings is a very crude process so it only takes me 30 minutes to make sure they are round so not a big deal to me.
If I remember right Dougal said the Mezzer is pretty progressive specially on the lower travel settings.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

silentG said:


> You talkin to me?


Nope. I quoted the post I was talking about 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Ah, gotcha.

The quote didn't show up in what I was looking at and I don't want to be random dude spewing garbage all over the place.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I do have to wonder how much of the perceived benefit of burnishing is just fresh lube in the lowers. I've lubed up a fork that only had about ten hours on it since the last service and was surprised by how much better it worked.

There is no doubt though, my burnished forks consistently stay smoother then all my buddies forks, regardless of how many hours are on it.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

mike156 said:


> I do have to wonder how much of the perceived benefit of burnishing is just fresh lube in the lowers. I've lubed up a fork that only had about ten hours on it since the last service and was surprised by how much better it worked.
> 
> There is no doubt though, my burnished forks consistently stay smoother then all my buddies forks, regardless of how many hours are on it.


That helps some but in my case the burnishing was on another level to me, and I change my bath oil very frequently like every 15-20 hours max since I have 2 gallons of Supergliss and only takes me 10-15 minutes


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Is there a place to buy burnishing tools in Europe for this fork? Can't really find any, probably because I'm not sure what to look for.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> At least you found out the main issue, that's why I have 2 of those digital pumps just in case. Some forks with a ton of hours might not need burnishing as much but I haven't found a fork that didn't improve after doing them though. Pressing in bushings is a very crude process so it only takes me 30 minutes to make sure they are round so not a big deal to me.
> If I remember right Dougal said the Mezzer is pretty progressive specially on the lower travel settings.


Other way, they (and all forks) get less progressive as you shorten them as the compression ratio decreases. This is why forks like the fox come preinstalled and allow more volume spacers in the shorter travel settings.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Cary said:


> Other way, they (and all forks) get less progressive as you shorten them as the compression ratio decreases. This is why forks like the fox come preinstalled and allow more volume spacers in the shorter travel settings.


That's what I meant to type, guess I had a brain fart moment.... I was running it at 170 and at my weight and riding style it was almost impossible to use the last 20-30mm no matter what I did. That fork now it's on my trail bike at 150 and I find out to work better for me at that travel and application.
Switching to Supergliss 68k from 100k made a difference for me also, starts smooth from first minute while the 100k had to warm up a little.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Just an update on the 214 air piston quad seal I've been running, I probably have 10 hours on it and so far no issues, breakaway force seems to be less than standard 215 but I ordered a pull/push digital gauge so next time I take it apart I'll get some numbers to see if there is a quantifiable difference.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> Just an update on the 214 air piston quad seal I've been running, I probably have 10 hours on it and so far no issues, breakaway force seems to be less than standard 215 but I ordered a pull/push digital gauge so next time I take it apart I'll get some numbers to see if there is a quantifiable difference.


Nice. 

Anyone have a comprehensive list of the standard O/quad ring sizes for a complete rebuild kit? 

Avoiding $45 for that air piston kit that is maybe $5 in parts would be a good start. When I get around to ordering the kit I'll post up findings...


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> Nice.
> 
> Anyone have a comprehensive list of the standard O/quad ring sizes for a complete rebuild kit?
> 
> Avoiding $45 for that air piston kit that is maybe $5 in parts would be a good start. When I get around to ordering the kit I'll post up findings...


I'm sure Dougal can tell you, he is the one that told me about the 214 seal


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

jupitersending said:


> Is there a place to buy burnishing tools in Europe for this fork? Can't really find any, probably because I'm not sure what to look for.


Maybe Oliver ships to EU. Worth a try, maybe shipping isn't too expensive.
I've paid him 15 for shipping in the US. 
Ordered last week but haven't heard back from him and I'm not sure when I shouldn't expect the tool.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

jacksonlui said:


> Maybe Oliver ships to EU. Worth a try, maybe shipping isn't too expensive.
> I've paid him 15 for shipping in the US.
> Ordered last week but haven't heard back from him and I'm not sure when I shouldn't expect the tool.


Thanks will try. But who is Oliver and how do I contact him?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

jacksonlui said:


> Maybe Oliver ships to EU. Worth a try, maybe shipping isn't too expensive.
> I've paid him 15 for shipping in the US.
> Ordered last week but haven't heard back from him and I'm not sure when I shouldn't expect the tool.


When I ordered mine it was about 4 weeks


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I'm sure Dougal can tell you, he is the one that told me about the 214 seal


I'm sure he could, but I'd imagine that would be a waste of his time to ultimately undercut some of his sales.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

jupitersending said:


> Thanks will try. But who is Oliver and how do I contact him?


Oliver Majewski
[email protected]


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> I gotta' admit, you guys are super funny about the bushing burnishing, it reminds me of folks who insist a colon cleanse is the way to good health


Burnishing is just a non-abrasive polishing process. Polishing reduces friction, or stiction in this case. By your line of reasoning, servicing lowers and lubing/replacing seals are equally pointless activities.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> Burnishing is just a non-abrasive polishing process. Polishing reduces friction, or stiction in this case. By your line of reasoning, servicing lowers and lubing/replacing seals are equally pointless activities.


It's more of a cold forming process. It is about restoring cylindricity to the bushing surface and radial clearance to the inner leg, than it is about changing surface finish.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> It's more of a cold forming process. It is about restoring cylindricity to the bushing surface and radial clearance to the inner leg, than it is about changing surface finish.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Burnishing is a non-abrasive polishing process. What we are doing with Mezzers may very well be a cold forming process (not sure if that’s an applicable term for non-metallic materials technically) but then we aren’t burnishing. Have you measured bushing cylindricity before and after “burnishing”? I ask because when I’ve done my Mezzers, it felt like the first few passes were doing 80% of the work as the tool knocked down the high spots.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> Burnishing is a non-abrasive polishing process. What we are doing with Mezzers may very well be a cold forming process (not sure if that’s an applicable term for non-metallic materials technically) but then we aren’t burnishing. Have you measured bushing cylindricity before and after “burnishing”? I ask because when I’ve done my Mezzers, it felt like the first few passes were doing 80% of the work as the tool knocked down the high spots.


Yes, I can see that you are reading from the dictionary definition. Getting stuck on the semantics isn't very productive. I work in manufacturing and consider polishing an abrasive process.

Yes, you can cold form plastics.

No, the improvement from "burnishing" fork bushings isn't from an improvement in surface finish. There is published data showing that the coefficient of friction of materials used in fork bushings actually increases significantly as you approach very low surface roughness. Burnishing is improving the "fit" (size and shape) between the bushing and lower leg, to reduce friction.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> Yes, I can see that you are reading from the dictionary definition. Getting stuck on the semantics isn't very productive. I work in manufacturing and consider polishing an abrasive process.
> 
> Yes, you can cold form plastics.
> 
> No, the improvement from "burnishing" fork bushings isn't from an improvement in surface finish. There is published data showing that the coefficient of friction of materials used in fork bushings actually increases significantly as you approach very low surface roughness. Burnishing is improving the "fit" (size and shape) between the bushing and lower leg, to reduce friction.


Dictionary definition? Semantics? There are different terms for different processes in order to differentiate them in the first place. Burnishing is different from polishing which is different from buffing which is different from sanding which is different from lapping, etc. even though they are all mechanical finishing processes. Burnishing creates plastic deformation at a surface texture level using a differential in material hardness, not abrasive particulate.

I've honestly only seen cold working of metals so I will take your word for it because you seem to know your stuff in other areas of engineering.

The friction goes up because the contact surface area (surface energy) goes up the closer the two parts become in complimentary forms. Like trying to pull apart two pieces of very flat glass stacked on one another. Normally, only a very small percentage of a part's surface (texture peaks on form peaks) is contacting the mating part's surface (itself composed of texture peaks on form peaks). Bushing and lower leg? You mean bushing and stanchion?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

GiddyHitch said:


> Dictionary definition? Semantics? There are different terms for different processes in order to differentiate them in the first place. Burnishing is different from polishing which is different from buffing which is different from sanding which is different from lapping, etc. even though they are all mechanical finishing processes. Burnishing creates plastic deformation at a surface texture level using a differential in material hardness, not abrasive particulate.
> 
> I've honestly only seen cold working of metals so I will take your word for it because you seem to know your stuff in other areas of engineering.
> 
> The friction goes up because the contact surface area (surface energy) goes up the closer the two parts become in complimentary forms. Like trying to pull apart two pieces of very flat glass stacked on one another. Normally, only a very small percentage of a part's surface (texture peaks on form peaks) is contacting the mating part's surface (itself composed of texture peaks on form peaks). Bushing and lower leg? You mean bushing and stanchion?



I realize that burnishing is different from polishing. You were the one who referred to it as "... a non-abrasive polishing process". I'm trying to convey the point that "burnishing" fork bushings may involve some actual burnishing (incidentally), but that the real improvement is not related to changing the surface roughness, which is generally the primary goal of true burnishing. The benefit is in resizing and reshaping the bushing.

Yes, I meant "stanchion". Superbike terminology has stuck with me (upside-down forks).

What is your point about surface energy? You are contradicting yourself. You claim that friction is reduced because the burnishing lowers surface roughness, then admit that lowering surface roughness increases friction. So, which is it? Your example isn't fitting either, because in our case the surfaces are always separated by a film of oil. This limits the proximity.


----------



## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

CCS86 said:


> I realize that burnishing is different from polishing. You were the one who referred to it as "... a non-abrasive polishing process". I'm trying to convey the point that "burnishing" fork bushings may involve some actual burnishing (incidentally), but that the real improvement is not related to changing the surface roughness, which is generally the primary goal of true burnishing. The benefit is in resizing and reshaping the bushing.
> 
> Yes, I meant "stanchion". Superbike terminology has stuck with me (upside-down forks).
> 
> What is your point about surface energy? You are contradicting yourself. You claim that friction is reduced because the burnishing lowers surface roughness, then admit that lowering surface roughness increases friction. So, which is it? Your example isn't fitting either, because in our case the surfaces are always separated by a film of oil. This limits the proximity.


It's known colloquially as a polishing process because it makes surfaces smoother and shinier but it isn't abrasive in nature and doesn't remove material. How does the resizing and reshaping work? The "burnishing" tool cold works the metal backer of the bushing to sit in the leg lower better? But the bushing coating is some sort of ceramic with potentially some high spots, no? Genuine questions.

Got it.

None of these characteristics exist in a vacuum; they are features of a system. In the real world, the profile of the stanchion and the profile of the bushing both deviate from perfect cylindricity and therefore slide across each other on their high spots (with hopefully a thin layer of lubricant between them). Reducing the surface roughness will reduce friction because the high spots have been blunted somewhat and don't dig into the mating surface as much. As the stanchion and bushing approach perfect cylindricity, reducing surface roughness increases the amount of surface area in contact which in turn increases the friction. You go from two surfaces of peaks and valleys riding over one another to two smooth planes riding over one another, or from high surface loads at very few points of contact to very low surface loads across the entire surface. That's my read on the inverse relationship between bushing surface finish and friction that you cite, at least.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

deleted post, no longer valid


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Hey everyone, got a few questions for the experts like Dougal, Cary, etc. 

I'll just ask them one at a time, as to not overwhelm everyone, haha. First question is, what are the differences in performance and how the bike/fork feels when you change up the 2 following traits: Lower than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and higher than normal LSC vs higher than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and lower than normal LSC? Why would you chose one of those options over another and what does each setup do differently?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

SuperWookie said:


> Hey everyone, got a few questions for the experts like Dougal, Cary, etc.
> 
> I'll just ask them one at a time, as to not overwhelm everyone, haha. First question is, what are the differences in performance and how the bike/fork feels when you change up the 2 following traits: Lower than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and higher than normal LSC vs higher than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and lower than normal LSC? Why would you chose one of those options over another and what does each setup do differently?


I'm no expert... but what is most noticeable to me is that the air pressure seems to have a greater effect on dynamic ride height which has a huge influence on overall weight bias/traction/handling.


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

EatsDirt said:


> I'm no expert... but what is most noticeable to me is that the air pressure seems to have a greater effect on dynamic ride height which has a huge influence on overall weight bias/traction/handling.


Ok, so can you explain what that means? Talk about what dynamic ride height is, and why it matters, and how it can affect the performance and feel. 

And what do you mean by weight bias, traction handling? Can you talk about how will less pressure/more LSC will affect the fork and ride? How will more pressure/less LSC affect the fork and ride? Thanks


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Sorry, you're gonna need someone who's more wordy, articulate, and tech then I am to get you to a basic understanding of what I find to be fairly complex and know only by feel.

I'm guessing you should probably start with suspension 101 type YT vids, then graduate to something like Vorsprung tech tues series.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Hey everyone, got a few questions for the experts like Dougal, Cary, etc.
> 
> I'll just ask them one at a time, as to not overwhelm everyone, haha. First question is, what are the differences in performance and how the bike/fork feels when you change up the 2 following traits: Lower than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and higher than normal LSC vs higher than normal fork air pressure/spring rate and lower than normal LSC? Why would you chose one of those options over another and what does each setup do differently?


LSC is only the transition into the damping curve you get from the shim-stack. So to get higher than normal LSC means you have a shim stack that is too firm for you.

It is relatively common for people who have compression damping too firm (shim stack too firm) to compensate with softer air pressure. The downside is lower ride height and it'll feel mushy on pump and jump tracks.

Likewise it is extremely common for people without enough compression damping (every racer with a top-shelf Fox or RS fork) to run excessive air pressure to hold the fork up. The downside is the mid-stroke gets too progressive, the fork kicks back from deep in the stroke and it feels unstable at speed.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

deleted


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here and I'm definitely not an expert by any means on suspension but reading this book - (Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible) Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible (Motorbooks Workshop): Thede, Paul, Parks, Lee: 0752748331402: Amazon.com: Books - was really useful to help put together what are individually abstract concepts with suspension and then be able to see not only how they work but how they can work together in a setup.

After reading that book, reading it again when I'm feeling in need of a refresher, I feel like I not only better understand my own suspension, how to get it better dialed in to what I like, but also to better be able to understand what other people in videos, forums, etc are talking about.

If I was to be stranded on a desert island, preferably one with lots of proper mountain bike trails, this would be one of the books I would take with me.


----------



## Nakkipata (Feb 20, 2019)

Has anyone checked how much of a bushing overlap this fork has? Just wondering if the lower legs are not tapered on the inside, could one increase the overlap if the fork would only be used in 120-140mm range for example and would this operation be beneficial?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

GiddyHitch said:


> Burnishing is just a non-abrasive polishing process. Polishing reduces friction, or stiction in this case. By your line of reasoning, servicing lowers and lubing/replacing seals are equally pointless activities.


I know what burnishing is, I just don’t buy the line that it needs to be done, nor that it is a smart thing to do.

When I read about all the folks doing early services and other antics to improve suspension response, it makes me wonder how much they ride.

If I was a pro and had a mechanic to do the work and I could replace my suspension on a frequent basis, sure I’d burnish the bushings and change oil frequently. Instead, I ride a lot.

Your mileage may differ.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I know what burnishing is, I just don’t buy the line that it needs to be done, nor that it is a smart thing to do.
> 
> When I read about all the folks doing early services and other antics to improve suspension response, it makes me wonder how much they ride.
> 
> ...



Some people don't feel it's a bad idea to burnish the bushings. 

Lots of people feel spending thousands of dollars on a pair of forks from a company that was out of business is a bad idea. 

I know what evil I would choose.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I know what burnishing is, I just don’t buy the line that it needs to be done, nor that it is a smart thing to do.
> 
> When I read about all the folks doing early services and other antics to improve suspension response, it makes me wonder how much they ride.
> 
> ...


That's called an "opinion", we usually leave those out by the dumpster.


----------



## jscottyk (Jun 3, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> I know what burnishing is, I just don’t buy the line that it needs to be done, nor that it is a smart thing to do.
> 
> When I read about all the folks doing early services and other antics to improve suspension response, it makes me wonder how much they ride.
> 
> ...


Troll much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

That's just classic Nurse Ben, putting his ignorance on display.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jscottyk said:


> Troll much?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope, just making a contradictory statement that is not popular.

Not everyone spends more time working on their bike than riding it.

I enjoy trying new products, especially when they’re an example of thinking outside of the box.

I think the current model Mezzer is a good fork out of the box, but the first generation was not great and needed tweaking.

If all you can add to the discussion is a a jab about trolling, well, I’d say that’s an example of trolling. With only 189 posts in more than ten years, I’m kinda surprised I got your attention


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Some people take care of their stuff and some people don't. 

It took me an extra 30 minutes to lube and burnish my last new Mezzer. Are you really riding so much that you don't have 30 minutes of free time after the sun goes down?

I ride with plenty of people who don't care about bike maintenance. They don't know how to maintain a bike properly or they "just can't find the time". Somehow they always know what the latest show is on Netflix though.


----------



## jscottyk (Jun 3, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Nope, just making a contradictory statement that is not popular.
> 
> Not everyone spends more time working on their bike than riding it.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that clarification. I understand now.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

If you ride forks enough they burnish themselves*.



*Unless it's really really out of shape.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Dougal said:


> If you ride forks enough they burnish themselves*.
> 
> 
> 
> *Unless it's really really out of shape.


Ooh, it would be a great idea to run the fork without bath oil to really burnish the bushings.
😉😙


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I don't ride a lot and I buy new stuff every season or two so my fork will never burnish themselves.
I don't see any harm in breaking it in faster so I can enjoy all that it has to offer. I don't see any negatives to it.
There are a lot of high end products where you "need" to do certain things. For example , my Tesla doesn't come with a garage door opener built in. Go figure.
I'm sure the mezzer is fine right out of the box but many also send their new forks in to tuners to get a bunch of things done.
Manufacturing can get you close but sometimes not to some small percentage of discerning end users. Is it really needed, nah. It's just part of the fun.
I'm not winning any races or breaking any PR's because I burnished the bushings. Although I do feel the difference and it's pretty nice.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Dougal said:


> If you ride forks enough they burnish themselves*.
> 
> 
> 
> *Unless it's really really out of shape.


Wait, but then they'd get worn out and need to be replaced ‍


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

With a bound up Rockshox fork you'd end up with arthritic wrists before it ever burnished itself!

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ungod said:


> Wait, but then they'd get worn out and need to be replaced ‍


Once they wear in and are lubed they don't wear much. I have a 2005 Nixon on my favourite bike, I resized one bushing at the 10 year mark and it was likely there from the factory.



CCS86 said:


> With a bound up Rockshox fork you'd end up with arthritic wrists before it ever burnished itself!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Years ago I fixed a mates 2014 Pike RC that was about a year old. Tuned the damper, lubed it up and it still felt terrible. 2-3 hours of riding later it finally started feeling good. It had never used more than half stroke and it was like the stanchions needed oil worked into the pores before the seals started sliding nicely.


----------



## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

Hey guys, a question on the negative effects of having a very large negative chamber on the Mezzer Pro.
So I have a bike that is 150/140 out of the box, and to have this bike also be great on more rough terrain my plan is to get an offset bushing and overstroke the shock a bit and put a 27.5 wheel on the back.This makes the rear about 160mm travel. It works out so the bike have roughly same BB height in sag and ample room for the rear wheel so I am not concerned about the clearence. The front I can switch to 160 no problem (it's super easy on a mezzer, luckily) but is there is big negative downside to simply enlarge the negative chamber when using it as a trail bike? If the curve gets more linier couldn't I just offset that with a bit more air in IRT so I don't have to open the fork to change it back to 150? Stupid idea? If not, how about 170 (just 1 token) and setting it at 150 with pump on? When is it going to be really bad? I can't really test it now since I just had surgery, so please don't tell me to just test it myself


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Years ago I fixed a mates 2014 Pike RC that was about a year old. Tuned the damper, lubed it up and it still felt terrible. 2-3 hours of riding later it finally started feeling good. It had never used more than half stroke and it was like the stanchions needed oil worked into the pores before the seals started sliding nicely.



If 2-3 hours of riding "fixed" an over-constrained bushing fit, you wouldn't see so many dramatic before/after results and testimonies from burnishing (often well used) forks.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CCS86 said:


> If 2-3 hours of riding "fixed" an over-constrained bushing fit, you wouldn't see so many dramatic before/after results and testimonies from burnishing (often well used) forks.


I think a lot of the problem is the 2-3 hours riding isn't intensive enough to actually move the fork if it has stiction.

I haven't burnished either of my Mezzer's. It makes a huge difference to the average new RS Pike/Lyrik or F34/36 but the 1-2 season old versions have usually bedded in perfectly. I find maybe 1 fork a year that could have 15kg of stiction. The extreme case.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> I think a lot of the problem is the 2-3 hours riding isn't intensive enough to actually move the fork if it has stiction.
> 
> I haven't burnished either of my Mezzer's. It makes a huge difference to the average new RS Pike/Lyrik or F34/36 but the 1-2 season old versions have usually bedded in perfectly. I find maybe 1 fork a year that could have 15kg of stiction. The extreme case.


Mezzers seem very well sized overall. If anything leaning towards a more loose fit.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

jupitersending said:


> Hey guys, a question on the negative effects of having a very large negative chamber on the Mezzer Pro.
> So I have a bike that is 150/140 out of the box, and to have this bike also be great on more rough terrain my plan is to get an offset bushing and overstroke the shock a bit and put a 27.5 wheel on the back.This makes the rear about 160mm travel. It works out so the bike have roughly same BB height in sag and ample room for the rear wheel so I am not concerned about the clearence. The front I can switch to 160 no problem (it's super easy on a mezzer, luckily) but is there is big negative downside to simply enlarge the negative chamber when using it as a trail bike? If the curve gets more linier couldn't I just offset that with a bit more air in IRT so I don't have to open the fork to change it back to 150? Stupid idea? If not, how about 170 (just 1 token) and setting it at 150 with pump on? When is it going to be really bad? I can't really test it now since I just had surgery, so please don't tell me to just test it myself


No problem, do it.


----------



## modepp (Mar 29, 2018)

Was on the 2021 29 Mezzer Pro 170mm all season.

I am 195lbs dressed. 

From what I have seen from other posts, RATIO between RTI and MAIN chamber should be around 1.5 RATIO. 

After experimenting, I settle on RTI @ 77LBS and MAIN @ 65LBS (1.18 ratio). 

I still have great support, and found the Mezzer to be much more supple @ my settings than if i ran lower MAIN pressure (and therefore achieving the 1.5 ratio recommended). 

Curious to hear other's opinions and if they are also running low ratio numbers with good results.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Ooh, it would be a great idea to run the fork without bath oil to really burnish the bushings.
> 😉😙


About 17 years ago I was riding a Manitou Stance which had steel stanchions and grease lube. It was coil spring, I converted the damper to TPC+ and polished the black nitride stanchions with 1500grit sandpaper and ran them with only residual grease.
It was one of the smoothest forks I've ever ridden.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

question about revalving: in terms of replacing one of the 17.5mm shims, is it better to replace with a 12mm shim and run 1-2 click of HSC, or replace with a 15mm (or some other shim larger than 12mm) and run HSC open to achieve approx the same amount of HSC?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

tastik said:


> question about revalving: in terms of replacing one of the 17.5mm shims, is it better to replace with a 12mm shim and run 1-2 click of HSC, or replace with a 15mm (or some other shim larger than 12mm) and run HSC open to achieve approx the same amount of HSC?


I don't know what your weight is, but I'm 190lbs with gear and I run 0-1 clicks of HSC with the 12mm. I could definitely go lighter on the shim, but not heavier.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

ungod said:


> I don't know what your weight is, but I'm 190lbs with gear and I run 0-1 clicks of HSC with the 12mm. I could definitely go lighter on the shim, but not heavier.


wow that's less damping than what most of what I've read here suggests. how many clicks of HSC would you say you dial in to feel somewhat like the stock valving (2x17.5mm)?


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Question for everyone that knows. When using the method Dougal recommends (the Frequency method) for finding the correct spring rate for my suspension, I just need to know, do I start out with the IRT and Main chamber at the same PSI? And if so, then do I keep the IRT at the same starting PSI while I keep adjusting and testing with higher or lower Main chamber pressures? Or do I also adjust the IRT to the same as the main each time I adjust the main? So meaning, if I start out with both at 65psi, then adjust the main to 70psi, do I also move the IRT to 70 at that time? It sounds like from this little section on Dougal's page to keep them the same WHILE frequency tuning. Then split them later? But just wanted to make sure, as I'm going to try this method next time before I go out for a ride. "_Second positive chamber (e.g. Manitou IRT, Ohlins or SD-DVC): set both the same for initial frequency, then split and fine tune. Manitou & SD 1.5-2x multiplier works well."_

Then my other question is in relation to the IRT chamber. From what I can gather, it acts like a ramp up feature? To move the fork from a more linear (or slightly progressive curve) to a more ramped up or aggressive (progressive curve)? As well as increasing the mid stroke platform? So just wondering, if I get the Main chamber to a good feeling using the frequency method, yet still bottom out, do I just keep adding ~5psi to the IRT until it doesn't bottom out? Or should I use more HSC? 

There are a few specific trails that are all over the place in terms of what type of terrain they present. They have some very smooth sections with large jumps and a large drop. But then other areas are super rough, janky, technical and choppy. So if I set my fork up for rough and fast, it's not good for the smooth sections with the jumps and drops. And vice versa. So I'm trying to get my fork to feel good and offer some plushness over the choppy stuff, but still have that firm platform type feel, good mid and end support, and not dive in hard braking or technical janky sections where the front end drops down at slower speeds. And not really completely understanding what the IRT does exactly. I have an idea based on reading and trying different pressures, but not a full understanding.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

tastik said:


> wow that's less damping than what most of what I've read here suggests. how many clicks of HSC would you say you dial in to feel somewhat like the stock valving (2x17.5mm)?


1 click in feels about like I remember the stock damping, so 0 now feels one click lighter than stock.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Question for everyone that knows. When using the method Dougal recommends (the Frequency method) for finding the correct spring rate for my suspension, I just need to know, do I start out with the IRT and Main chamber at the same PSI? And if so, then do I keep the IRT at the same starting PSI while I keep adjusting and testing with higher or lower Main chamber pressures? Or do I also adjust the IRT to the same as the main each time I adjust the main? So meaning, if I start out with both at 65psi, then adjust the main to 70psi, do I also move the IRT to 70 at that time? It sounds like from this little section on Dougal's page to keep them the same WHILE frequency tuning. Then split them later? But just wanted to make sure, as I'm going to try this method next time before I go out for a ride. "_Second positive chamber (e.g. Manitou IRT, Ohlins or SD-DVC): set both the same for initial frequency, then split and fine tune. Manitou & SD 1.5-2x multiplier works well."_
> 
> Then my other question is in relation to the IRT chamber. From what I can gather, it acts like a ramp up feature? To move the fork from a more linear (or slightly progressive curve) to a more ramped up or aggressive (progressive curve)? As well as increasing the mid stroke platform? So just wondering, if I get the Main chamber to a good feeling using the frequency method, yet still bottom out, do I just keep adding ~5psi to the IRT until it doesn't bottom out? Or should I use more HSC?
> 
> There are a few specific trails that are all over the place in terms of what type of terrain they present. They have some very smooth sections with large jumps and a large drop. But then other areas are super rough, janky, technical and choppy. So if I set my fork up for rough and fast, it's not good for the smooth sections with the jumps and drops. And vice versa. So I'm trying to get my fork to feel good and offer some plushness over the choppy stuff, but still have that firm platform type feel, good mid and end support, and not dive in hard braking or technical janky sections where the front end drops down at slower speeds. And not really completely understanding what the IRT does exactly. I have an idea based on reading and trying different pressures, but not a full understanding.


You've got two options for setting frequency with a dual positive chamber like IRT. First is set both chambers the same, second is increment them at the same time.

Option 1 would be setting both until you get the frequency good. If it was 50psi then you might split the pressures 40/60psi after.
Option 2 means you want to keep an even ratio between them. So 40/60 then maybe 45/68psi etc. A 1.5x ratio is a good place to start.

I run 35/55psi for more relaxed riding and 40/60psi for bike park.


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Dougal said:


> You've got two options for setting frequency with a dual positive chamber like IRT. First is set both chambers the same, second is increment them at the same time.
> 
> Option 1 would be setting both until you get the frequency good. If it was 50psi then you might split the pressures 40/60psi after.
> Option 2 means you want to keep an even ratio between them. So 40/60 then maybe 45/68psi etc. A 1.5x ratio is a good place to start.
> ...


at what travel, rider weight and head angle?


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Dougal said:


> You've got two options for setting frequency with a dual positive chamber like IRT. First is set both chambers the same, second is increment them at the same time.
> 
> Option 1 would be setting both until you get the frequency good. If it was 50psi then you might split the pressures 40/60psi after.
> Option 2 means you want to keep an even ratio between them. So 40/60 then maybe 45/68psi etc. A 1.5x ratio is a good place to start.
> ...


Ok sounds good. Is one better than the other? Or not really? And why would you run a closer ratio vs a larger ratio? Like 70/100 vs 65/115? From what I gather, it makes the fork feel a little more linear if the two chambers are closer together? And if they are closer to 1.5-2 ratio, it gives the fork MUCH more ramp and a more progressive curve? Or is that not correct? 

And should I use the IRT to help with bottom out, or the HSC after getting the fork to the softness or firmness I like?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> So I wonder if pulling the fork to full extension is causing some sort of wierd "set".
> 
> I'm gonna play with it this weekend. It's a great fork, but I gotta figure out a way to make it plusher, currently running 40 main/60 IRT with LSC/HSC open, it's firm and not using up all the travel regardless of how big of hit. In contrast my Mattocs are plush and the damping is usable.
> 
> Popping the plugs did nothing



Let all air out
Connect pump 
Extend full (only travel via spacers of needed)
Pump to pressure according to list 
ALWAYS IRT FIRST
Then adjust airpressure main chamber till it feels plush enough but does not rush to easily trough the first half of travel and irt so that you feel comfortable with support and use of travel. 
START with open compressions and use until 5 clicks if LSC for fine tuning not more. Otherwise change pressure in main chamber first and start with open compression again


----------



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Thanks for the responses guys! I also just realized I've never asked a few other important questions about my Mezzer. 

I know that if I'm doing initial setup, I want to fill the IRT first, and then the main. And that I also need the fork "floating" in the air (tire not touching the ground).

So first question is, if I'm just changing the Main chamber a few psi firmer or softer, for normal everyday riding, do I have to ALWAYS let out all the pressure in both chambers first, then fill IRT first, then Main every single time I want to adjust either? Or can I just add or subtract a few psi?

Second, what are some "proper" ways to actually have the fork "float" in the air while filling up either chamber? Unless I have a friend or my gf hold the bike frame up in the air, so the tire is 6" off the ground, I don't know of any other way to fill the fork without it touching the ground on my own? Can I turn the bike upside down and fill the fork? Or would that put pressure on the fork, and not allow it to fill properly? I'm confused on how to do this on my own.

And lastly, something weird happens with my fork when filling it. So I will check my fork the night before I ride, to make sure the IRT and Main are at the correct pressure, and make any changes I need. Because that is the only place I can have someone help me hold up the bike so the tire isn't on the ground. But then in the morning when I get to the trails, my Main chamber almost always has some lower psi reading than what it did the night before. Sometimes by as much as 5-10psi, other times only a little less. And other times no change at all. Do you know what could be happening here? I store my bike upright/vertical on a wall mounted rack. The IRT rarely or never changes.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bansaiman said:


> Let all air out
> Connect pump
> Extend full (only travel via spacers of needed)
> Pump to pressure according to list
> ...


Umm, yeah, know that already.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SuperWookie said:


> Thanks for the responses guys! I also just realized I've never asked a few other important questions about my Mezzer.
> 
> I know that if I'm doing initial setup, I want to fill the IRT first, and then the main. And that I also need the fork "floating" in the air (tire not touching the ground).
> 
> ...


If you are just tweaking the main, the IRT can be left alone, just remember to pull the fork down to full extension.

This ^ is a good way to play with main pressure to find the right ratio for your riding style.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

SuperWookie said:


> Thanks for the responses guys! I also just realized I've never asked a few other important questions about my Mezzer.
> 
> I know that if I'm doing initial setup, I want to fill the IRT first, and then the main. And that I also need the fork "floating" in the air (tire not touching the ground).
> 
> ...


Hey man, don’t overthink it. Just put bike in a stand or lacking a stand flip it upside down. Gentle pulling on lowers will overcome tendency to sink into travel.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

SuperWookie said:


> Thanks for the responses guys! I also just realized I've never asked a few other important questions about my Mezzer.
> 
> I know that if I'm doing initial setup, I want to fill the IRT first, and then the main. And that I also need the fork "floating" in the air (tire not touching the ground).
> 
> ...


For floating the front end in the air when filling it has to be your girlfriend keeping it suspended. No other option is acceptable.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

SuperWookie said:


> Thanks for the responses guys! I also just realized I've never asked a few other important questions about my Mezzer.
> 
> I know that if I'm doing initial setup, I want to fill the IRT first, and then the main. And that I also need the fork "floating" in the air (tire not touching the ground).
> 
> ...


No need to empty main each time before adjusting. Just make sure you don't exceed the pressure in the IRT. Secondly, no need to have the bike in the air while filling up the main chamber. It's only when you unscrew the pump you have to make sure you have the fork at full extension. A light push/pull on the frame/fork when disconnecting the pump is sufficient to ease the load on the fork. My fork barely sags any under the bike's own weight anyway.

And lastly, do you pre-pressurize the pump before taking a read, or do you just screw the pump on un-pressurized? If the latter, then you'll always lose some pressure as the air in the chamber fills the hose of the pump.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

006_007 said:


> For floating the front end in the air when filling it has to be your girlfriend keeping it suspended. No other option is acceptable.


Solid tip, however this can complicate the process for anyone that is married.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Velodonata said:


> Solid tip, however this can complicate the process for anyone that is married.


This is why I have a specific motel that I always go to when I fill my fork.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Curveball said:


> This is why I have a specific motel that I always go to when I fill my fork.


Scandalous.

My wife isn’t very interested in my greased stanchion, knob twisting or keeping it elevated so I might have to visit one of those black light motels...


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

EatsDirt said:


> Scandalous.
> 
> My wife interested very interested in my greased stanchion, knob twisting or keeping it elevated so I might have to visit one of those black light motels...


As long as she doesn’t ask about you greasing your nipples, you are good to go.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Cary said:


> As long as she doesn’t ask about you greasing your nipples, you are good to go.


I've mentioned that a little nip-slip is good for tension... unfortunately she doesn't want anything to do with the stress relieving part.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

sorry if this has been covered, not the best at searching this 200 page thread.

Just pulled a mezzer pro cartridge out for a oil change and it looks full, like real puffy. Does this not self bleed out the little hole at the top? i pulled the bottom bleed screw out and a ton of oil came out and the bladder looked a lot better.

Now when i am done bleeding with fresh oil, manitou instructions say itll be a little puffy, any one ever give it a little squeeze instead so the bladder has a bit more room for oil ingress?


----------



## Skulls Road (Jul 20, 2020)

boostinmini said:


> sorry if this has been covered, not the best at searching this 200 page thread.
> 
> Just pulled a mezzer pro cartridge out for a oil change and it looks full, like real puffy. Does this not self bleed out the little hole at the top? i pulled the bottom bleed screw out and a ton of oil came out and the bladder looked a lot better.
> 
> Now when i am done bleeding with fresh oil, manitou instructions say itll be a little puffy, any one ever give it a little squeeze instead so the bladder has a bit more room for oil ingress?


Just to be clear, you're attempting to bleed the damper, not do a lower leg service, correct? I believe the damper does blow off if it needs to, but that's if something goes wrong. The bladder is supposed to be puffy. One of the last steps of the bleed process is to close off one syringe and add fluid until it puffs up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> sorry if this has been covered, not the best at searching this 200 page thread.
> 
> Just pulled a mezzer pro cartridge out for a oil change and it looks full, like real puffy. Does this not self bleed out the little hole at the top? i pulled the bottom bleed screw out and a ton of oil came out and the bladder looked a lot better.
> 
> Now when i am done bleeding with fresh oil, manitou instructions say itll be a little puffy, any one ever give it a little squeeze instead so the bladder has a bit more room for oil ingress?


The damper needs a full compression to reset it's oil level. If you're not using full stroke the bladder will stay a bit swollen. But it sorts itself out in use.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Dougal said:


> The damper needs a full compression to reset it's oil level. If you're not using full stroke the bladder will stay a bit swollen. But it sorts itself out in use.


Thats good to know.

Do you ever "purge" a little oil out after bleeding it before you put the plug in so the bladder has more room for ingestion? I think some of the foxs do that if i remember correctly??

I had one mezzer spit its bladder out of the lower retaining ring so i was a little concerned for it


----------



## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

Off Mezzer topic, but related.

@Dougal or others in the suspension "know", is it necessary for a bladder style damper to be pressurized? 
I know SRAM says to bleed the damper at full extension, this puts it at 40mm+ longer than the airspring shaft and results in it being pressurized when installed (bladder is puffy).

Is this needed or beneficial?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Thats good to know.
> 
> Do you ever "purge" a little oil out after bleeding it before you put the plug in so the bladder has more room for ingestion? I think some of the foxs do that if i remember correctly??
> 
> I had one mezzer spit its bladder out of the lower retaining ring so i was a little concerned for it





ARider said:


> Off Mezzer topic, but related.
> 
> @Dougal or others in the suspension "know", is it necessary for a bladder style damper to be pressurized?
> I know SRAM says to bleed the damper at full extension, this puts it at 40mm+ longer than the airspring shaft and results in it being pressurized when installed (bladder is puffy).
> ...


I vacuum bleed them and for Fox and Mezzer dampers I bleed them with the shaft slightly compressed so the bladder is a little sucked in at full extension (usually it never sees full extension). The Charger damper bladders I leave relaxed at full extension. Because Charger 1 and 2 don't have much room inside for the bladder to suck in.


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Dougal said:


> I vacuum bleed them and for Fox and Mezzer dampers I bleed them with the shaft slightly compressed so the bladder is a little sucked in at full extension (usually it never sees full extension). The Charger damper bladders I leave relaxed at full extension. Because Charger 1 and 2 don't have much room inside for the bladder to suck in.


 Approx how much on the mezzer you leave it sucked in? inch or two?


----------



## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

Just came across this video comparing a bunch of enduro forks: 




Interesting that Seb says the Mezzer was the harshest of them through chatter. Do you think the new shim adjustment they've done takes care of that problem? Or did he just have it set up wrong?


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

miles of pain said:


> Just came across this video comparing a bunch of enduro forks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw that a while ago. All I can say is that my Mezzer is by far the smoothest fork in chatter that I've ever had. Maybe it was his setup. I don't know.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

boostinmini said:


> Approx how much on the mezzer you leave it sucked in? inch or two?


Pretty much. So the bladder is punched but not pulling a vacuum.


----------



## bt88 (Sep 5, 2013)

So just a quick question for you all- how much of a difference can you feel when adjusting the low speed damper knob? Honestly, I’m not sure I can tell a difference whether mine is fully open or closed (regardless of the HSC setting). Is there just a narrow range of adjustment on these forks or is this abnormal?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

bt88 said:


> So just a quick question for you all- how much of a difference can you feel when adjusting the low speed damper knob? Honestly, I’m not sure I can tell a difference whether mine is fully open or closed (regardless of the HSC setting). Is there just a narrow range of adjustment on these forks or is this abnormal?


If you are running HSC wide open or +1, the LSC will have a relatively narrow range.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

Melted the credit card and a new Mezzer Pro is on its way! Can’t wait. 

Couple question:

1) I’m trying to get the necessary tools to perform maintenance. Hayes is sold out on their fork service tool kit PN 172-31133 that has the the slotted cassette tool. Is this absolutely necessary in order to remove the IFT assembly? I have a standard HG cassette tool but not sure if I will fit without the custom machined slot. And for anyone who has recently moved on from the Mezzer Pro, would you be interested in selling the tool set? 

2) Reading through some of the major threads on this fork (and still reading!), it seems the shim mod reduces harshness but if MY21 and later models come with lighter tune, do owners of newer Mezzer Pros still find the shim mod necessary? I’ve also read a handful of folks expressing the fact that they were happy with the stock shim stacks. I’m comfortable dropping the lowers before riding to ensure adequate bath oil and do a quick grease of the IFT (if I can get my hands on the tool) but I’m not sure I want to fudge with the damper internals. But if I do find it necessary later, can anyone recommend a suspension specialist in the Phoenix area that is familiar with Mezzer dampers- either to do the shim mod or just to do a damper service? 

TIA! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

miles of pain said:


> Just came across this video comparing a bunch of enduro forks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seb couldn't set up a bank account let alone a fork.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

TanMan said:


> Melted the credit card and a new Mezzer Pro is on its way! Can’t wait.
> 
> Couple question:
> 
> ...


I just use a standard cassette tool with a big opening on the back. I actually drilled mine out with a uni-bit but some of them might have a big enough opening without drilling

The lighter tune was a misunderstanding, it never happened. I'd recommend riding the fork and seeing if you feel you need any changes.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

ungod said:


> I just use a standard cassette tool with a big opening on the back. I actually drilled mine out with a uni-bit but some of them might have a big enough opening without drilling
> 
> The lighter tune was a misunderstanding, it never happened. I'd recommend riding the fork and seeing if you feel you need any changes.


I’ll have to experiment with the cassette tool when the fork arrives. Still on the hunt for anyone wanting to sell theirs. 

Thanks for the info regarding the “light tune”. This was the first post in the other more tech focused thread and I’ve taken it as canon. Apparently more reading to do on my part. Will probably ride it stock to see first. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

TanMan said:


> I’ll have to experiment with the cassette tool when the fork arrives. Still on the hunt for anyone wanting to sell theirs.
> 
> Thanks for the info regarding the “light tune”. This was the first post in the other more tech focused thread and I’ve taken it as canon. Apparently more reading to do on my part. Will probably ride it stock to see first.
> 
> ...


The rebound tune got lighter in '21 but the compression tune hasn't changed for the production run.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

TanMan said:


> I’ll have to experiment with the cassette tool when the fork arrives. Still on the hunt for anyone wanting to sell theirs.
> 
> Thanks for the info regarding the “light tune”. This was the first post in the other more tech focused thread and I’ve taken it as canon. Apparently more reading to do on my part. Will probably ride it stock to see first.
> 
> ...


FYI, I picked up the cheap/available Park FR5.2 when I found my ancient cassette tool wouldnt fit. Works perfect, just need release all the air from spring side To compress shaft.


----------



## Starry Firmament (Sep 15, 2019)

Hello folk, after a year of riding, i have noticed that my fork is too rigid and stiff.
i am a 80 kg rider with a 180mm mezzer pro fork.
if i set the fork with the setup guide (52main, 83irt), the fork become too stiff and can't be use.
now i am running the fork in 30main,40irt and fully open low and high speed compression (switched to minimum (-) position).
Is that normal or i need to contact hayes for further action?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Starry Firmament said:


> Hello folk, after a year of riding, i have noticed that my fork is too rigid and stiff.
> i am a 80 kg rider with a 180mm mezzer pro fork.
> if i set the fork with the setup guide (52main, 83irt), the fork become too stiff and can't be use.
> now i am running the fork in 30main,40irt and fully open low and high speed compression (switched to minimum (-) position).
> Is that normal or i need to contact hayes for further action?


Aside from probably being due for a normal service, you might also consider having the damper tuned for your weight. I'm not sure who would be a good resource for that, but you might start by checking around in your local area to see who's familiar with it.


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Has anyone ridden both the Mezzer and a DVO Diamond or Onyx? How do they compare? Which one would you say has better small bump? I'm a pretty light rider at ~65kg/144lbs if that matters. 

Both look great, a big positive to the Mezzer is the travel adjustability. My current frame takes a 150 but with my next bike i'd like to go with more travel. Looks like with the Onyx the lowest I can go is 160.


----------



## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

HollyBoni said:


> Has anyone ridden both the Mezzer and a DVO Diamond or Onyx? How do they compare? Which one would you say has better small bump? I'm a pretty light rider at ~65kg/144lbs if that matters.
> 
> Both look great, a big positive to the Mezzer is the travel adjustability. My current frame takes a 150 but with my next bike i'd like to go with more travel. Looks like with the Onyx the lowest I can go is 160.


onyx can be 150mm with 3 spacers, downside it’s it takes away some of negative coils preload but at your weight that’s probably a good thing as you will be running the OTT in the least sensitive setting.

I can’t help with a comparison as I think the Mezza is ugly as hell and wouldn’t ride one hahah


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

HollyBoni said:


> Has anyone ridden both the Mezzer and a DVO Diamond or Onyx? How do they compare? Which one would you say has better small bump? I'm a pretty light rider at ~65kg/144lbs if that matters.
> 
> Both look great, a big positive to the Mezzer is the travel adjustability. My current frame takes a 150 but with my next bike i'd like to go with more travel. Looks like with the Onyx the lowest I can go is 160.


I ride an Onyx now. My Mezzer Pro literally got delivered late last night (woohoo!) so no riding expressions just yet but when the UPS driver handed the Manitou box to me, I couldn’t believe there was a fork inside. I handled my Onyx by itself before and the Mezzer feels incredibly light in the hands in comparison. 

I’ll post a side by side impression soon. If only my semi bath oil and other tools can get delivered soon enough! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Jrp103 said:


> onyx can be 150mm with 3 spacers, downside it’s it takes away some of negative coils preload but at your weight that’s probably a good thing as you will be running the OTT in the least sensitive setting.
> 
> I can’t help with a comparison as I think the Mezza is ugly as hell and wouldn’t ride one hahah


Hmm, so zero issues at 150mm other than the negative preload?
Yeah, the the Mezzer definitely looks different, but I think I could get used to it. 



TanMan said:


> I ride an Onyx now. My Mezzer Pro literally got delivered late last night (woohoo!) so no riding expressions just yet but when the UPS driver handed the Manitou box to me, I couldn’t believe there was a fork inside.


Was there actually a fork inside? 😁


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

HollyBoni said:


> Hmm, so zero issues at 150mm other than the negative preload?
> Yeah, the the Mezzer definitely looks different, but I think I could get used to it.
> 
> 
> ...


You betcha! Can’t lie, I was a little concerned at first as the box came pretty beat up but the Mezzer was unharmed. 

What an understated beauty! 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

Anyone want to offer some advice on Mezzer setup? I have a pro and over time I've been gradually reducing the pressure, the fork itself is great, but been getting pretty bad hand pain.

Currently, I've got it at 120psi in the IRT and 70 in the fork. It's super soft off the top, but still very firm through the midstroke. Still feels great, but I'd say the hand pain almost feels worse than when I was running it firmer.

My question is, which setting should I be changing to soften the fork through the middle of its range? The IRT pressure or the fork pressure? I'm happy to experiment (I've been doing so for a while), but I'm just not certain which one I should be focussing on in this situation.

Any advice would be great!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DrHarry said:


> Anyone want to offer some advice on Mezzer setup? I have a pro and over time I've been gradually reducing the pressure, the fork itself is great, but been getting pretty bad hand pain.
> 
> Currently, I've got it at 120psi in the IRT and 70 in the fork. It's super soft off the top, but still very firm through the midstroke. Still feels great, but I'd say the hand pain almost feels worse than when I was running it firmer.
> 
> ...


You've missed a few vitals.
How heavy are you.
How slack is your bike.
What trails are you riding.
How aggressively are you riding?


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

huck to almost flat on Ben Cathro's track in Pitlochry


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Main fork pressure.





 is a really good visual explanation for how the IRT system works with the three parts (neg, pos, IRT).

For some reason it didn't really click for me until I saw this and then the light bulb came on to really get it vs kind of sort of get it.



DrHarry said:


> Anyone want to offer some advice on Mezzer setup? I have a pro and over time I've been gradually reducing the pressure, the fork itself is great, but been getting pretty bad hand pain.
> 
> Currently, I've got it at 120psi in the IRT and 70 in the fork. It's super soft off the top, but still very firm through the midstroke. Still feels great, but I'd say the hand pain almost feels worse than when I was running it firmer.
> 
> ...


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

Thanks for that video, I think it helped (maybe)!

It's not so much about getting a specific setup, it's more about understanding the relationship between the 2 chambers so that I can work on adjusting my setting just for me.

Just from that video I feel that maybe I need to lower the pressure in the IRT more (to soften up the midstroke) but keep the main chamber the same or a tiny bit higher, to keep the support through the initial travel.

Does that sound like I'm on the right track?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

DrHarry said:


> Thanks for that video, I think it helped (maybe)!
> 
> It's not so much about getting a specific setup, it's more about understanding the relationship between the 2 chambers so that I can work on adjusting my setting just for me.
> 
> ...


Without you answering what Dougal asked you a couple days ago will be hard to give you recommendations.


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

I can give you all those answers, but that won't help me work out how to adjust the fork to my preferences. I'm not trying to be a smart arse I just want to learn how the IRT and main chamber pressures effect the ride and how they relate to each other.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

DrHarry said:


> I can give you all those answers, but that won't help me work out how to adjust the fork to my preferences. I'm not trying to be a smart arse I just want to learn how the IRT and main chamber pressures effect the ride and how they relate to each other.


IRT and main work together. The total amount of air in the fork determines bottom-out. The split between the chambers dictates the ramp-up. Bigger split makes the fork softer at the start and more progressive.

Giving those answers will show someone else close to your setup and what works for them.


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

So my riding weight would currently be around 120kg (I'm not sure, maybe 250pounds?). I'm not really into big jumps but I do ride techy stuff with drops and rock garden. I'm not the fastest rider, but not the slowest, maybe around the middle of the pack. Riding a Geometron with a 170mm fork.

I used the official settings from Manitou when I started and it rode great but was super harsh on my hands. I've been gradually reducing the pressures over time, the fork feels great no matter where I've got it set, but still struggling with finding a setting that isn't painful.

Currently have the IRT at 110 and main chamber at 70, where it feels soft off the top, firm through the middle, but actually felt worse on my hands than previously. Got the adjustable stuff pretty much close to wide open on every setting. 

I would say it rode better with 120 in the IRT, but again, trying to make it a bit more comfortable.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

DrHarry said:


> So my riding weight would currently be around 120kg (I'm not sure, maybe 250pounds?). I'm not really into big jumps but I do ride techy stuff with drops and rock garden. I'm not the fastest rider, but not the slowest, maybe around the middle of the pack. Riding a Geometron with a 170mm fork.
> 
> I used the official settings from Manitou when I started and it rode great but was super harsh on my hands. I've been gradually reducing the pressures over time, the fork feels great no matter where I've got it set, but still struggling with finding a setting that isn't painful.
> 
> ...


That's 265lbs, 70psi main sounds a little low for that weight, I would try 75/110, If too low you'll be riding on the mid stroke most of the time so it'll feel harsh. What's your rebound set at? Also at your weight you shouldn't have to be running all the comp knobs open but I'll let someone that's closer to your weight or Dougal chime in on that.
Here you can see what other people are running so you can get an idea.








Mezzer User Setups


Setup Guide & Pressure Calc Manitou Setup Guide,Travel,140mm 140mm,150mm,160mm,170mm,180mm lbs,kg,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT,Main,IRT 300,136,110,152,105,141,101,137,92,132,88,120,150mm 260,118,96,134,91,125,87,121,80,116,76,106,160mm 220,100,82,116,77,109,73,105,68,100,64,92,170mm 200,91




docs.google.com


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

DrHarry said:


> So my riding weight would currently be around 120kg (I'm not sure, maybe 250pounds?). I'm not really into big jumps but I do ride techy stuff with drops and rock garden. I'm not the fastest rider, but not the slowest, maybe around the middle of the pack. Riding a Geometron with a 170mm fork.
> 
> I used the official settings from Manitou when I started and it rode great but was super harsh on my hands. I've been gradually reducing the pressures over time, the fork feels great no matter where I've got it set, but still struggling with finding a setting that isn't painful.
> 
> ...


Im a 100kgs so a bit lighter, ive used 170 & 160 settings, currently back on 160mm.
I Find the fork stiffness transmits more hand feedback than previous forks I've used, a diamond & mattoc on the same bike so the hands certainly are a good gauge as to whats working & what isn't more so than other forks.
It's the hand feedback for me thats led to experimenting with pressures, valving & chamber volumes.

I generally prefer the feel when the fork is around the 20-22% sag range & generally rides in the beginning stroke most often via Lsc & pressure, I find if I hit the hbo too often it translates to harsher hand feedback.
The hbo is apparently speed sensitive so it's firmer/harsher when engaged faster, I think in the past I was hitting the hbo too fast & too often which resulted in harsh hand feel. I'd reset & check your o ring & see if your always near or at the hbo on sections of trail you notice the hand feedback the most.

I generally use the starting point of riding weight for irt & 66% main when compression is open, in your case 120/79, & add or reduce from there.
if you close the Lsc then I revert to 60% main. so in your case 120/72 & add more if you need to from there. 
you may find with a high Lsc & low main you can speed up the rebound, Low Lsc & higher main you can slow the rebound a bit.
I usually leave them for several rides to get a good feel of whats working & what isn't as I ride a variety of different terrain, some settings work better than others. it's usually driven by taking the edge off here or there.

I've found experimenting with a faster rebound helps me a lot with hand feedback, I'd suggest going to the previous air pressures you have used which felt best & repeat sections of the same trail several times just speeding up the rebound to see if you find a better hand feel. A year ago I ran +6 from open religiously, the last 4 months I've been on +2 from open, it was a gradual thing of minor gains & taking the edge off.

I've found tyres affect my hand feel as well, I can't run a 2.5 WT minion exo max terra higher than 20 psi or my hands feel it, I'm currently on a 2.4WT max terra dissector & can run 22 psi before my hands feel it. An ardent 2.4 I can run at 24psi. Again the terrain dictates how low you can go & sometimes I just have to run higher & bear it.

I'm currently experimenting with a 2:1 ratio so 120/60 for me (120%IRT / 60% main) with Lsc closed & rebound almost open, & it's surprisingly good so far, naturally it's likely to be speed & terrain specific so what works where I ride may not work where you ride. I think in a few rides ill go up 2-3 psi each & see what happens.

bit of a waffle, but I hope it helps.


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

Both the last 2 comments were really interesting. I think the idea of "riding through the midstroke" being harsher on my hands is spot on. I will continue to experiment!


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Does anyone know what Rulezman does to reduce friction here? He's claiming he's not burnishing the bushings.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CXNy0OCPEoG/


----------



## Nakkipata (Feb 20, 2019)

All I know from his insta feed is that he applies some sort of polishing process to the stanchions to get more mirroring finish. He also says to align the bushing more accurately. Same thing might go into other internal parts and sealings as well.

I know that bushing alignment is definitely first priority but one thing is bugging me: more polished surfaces may glide better when tested dry, but it does not apply to surfaces using oil lubrication. Too smooth surface prevents the oil film formation. Therefore, actually having worse lubrication. New Fox’s dhx2 models have quite rough surface finish for example and Intend BC also mentioned using optimized surface roughness for 20wt gold they use as a bath oil.


Many of the procedures he applies, can be found on MTBR forums. If my memory serves correctly, someone was using the same polishing treatment as what is used on cars wind screens.

All that being said, I still do value his work and I am going to give him a Mezzer later this spring for the RRT treatment. I was planning to buy another set of CSU and lowersand build another mezzer to test the differences. It would be even more fun to give one mezzer to another fanatic mezzer tuner with the same specs and see how much it differs but I think I am out of budget for that.


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

AstonMtb has some comments on the RRT Mezzer on his Banshee review he just posted.



https://astonmtb.com/blogs-banshee-titan-custom-built-downcountry-attempter/


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

So in the interests of experimentation I went back to settings of 120/80 on the IRT and fork, but I fully closed all the adjustability (compression and rebound). 

Previously these pressures felt really good on the bike, in terms of control, but harsh on my hands.


I was really surprised how it felt to be honest. The fork felt maybe a little "muffled", like it wasn't as precise as before, but it still handled fine, and in fact I would say it was taking off for jumps much better. 

It felt much better through the really chunky rock gardens, soaked up the hits in a way I was surprised at, I thought the slow rebound would have been a problem. In some of the steep, high speed but twisty sections where I'm basically on the brakes constantly I did start to get hand pain, but no worse than before.

Overall, I would say it was super interesting, but I really have no idea where to take it next!

I'm going to try an extra 10psi in the fork and then experiment with rebound and compression.

While I'd never thought about closing up those settings before, in hindsight it makes sense, because my weight will be putting an awful lot of force on the fork.

Thanks for the suggestions and I will continue to play!


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

shakazulu12 said:


> AstonMtb has some comments on the RRT Mezzer on his Banshee review he just posted.
> 
> 
> 
> https://astonmtb.com/blogs-banshee-titan-custom-built-downcountry-attempter/


Wow, now THAT is a bike review.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

DrHarry said:


> So in the interests of experimentation I went back to settings of 120/80 on the IRT and fork, but I fully closed all the adjustability (compression and rebound).
> 
> Previously these pressures felt really good on the bike, in terms of control, but harsh on my hands.
> 
> ...


If you want to experiment some more take your total air pressure 120/80 so 200 (or what ever feels best) & start changing a few psi a time but maintain the 200 total. i.e 118/82,116/84,122/78 etc etc. you may find a preference in the hands for the main/irt pressure split.
Then see if that preferred pressure split continues with increased or decreased overall psi
welcome to the rabbit warren....


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

So running at 120/90 felt really good, a bit more firmer but really good control.

Surprisingly, I'd say it almost felt better on my hands with the extra pressure. I think there's some room to experiment with the high speed compression and maybe the rebound, but the slow speed compression seems ideal.

One new issue (new since closing all the adjustability right down) is I only used 110mm out of my 170mm travel. That's on a very steep track with some chunky rock garden sections, a few jumps and some high speed but super tight swoops. I don't need to use all my travel, but I'm guessing using a bit more would be good!

Any thoughts on dropping the IRT pressure to 110, but maintaining the fork pressure at 90? Will that give me a little more through the mid stroke? Any reason NOT to try that out?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

DrHarry said:


> So running at 120/90 felt really good, a bit more firmer but really good control.
> 
> Surprisingly, I'd say it almost felt better on my hands with the extra pressure. I think there's some room to experiment with the high speed compression and maybe the rebound, but the slow speed compression seems ideal.
> 
> ...


I would definitely try that. I'm on 170mm and have a lower ratio between chambers then what is typical here.

I believe the resident expert Dougal suggests using most (all?) of the LSC before starting to close the HSC.

Whatever you do, only change one thing at a time now that it's in a usable range.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

I close my LSC and open my HSC as per Dougal'd recommendation and he's on point.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You guys run a lot of pressure!

I’m 190# plus kit, 160mm Mezzer Pro on a Canfield Tilt, HTA ~ 64 deg:

IRT 80
Main 45
LSC 2 clicks from open
HSC 1 click from open
Rebound ~ 6/10

Getting full travel off big hits, no harsh bottom out.

If you have to run the fork settings open, you’re running two much pressure.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Should there be a "third" air pressure calculator for the Mezzer? Manitou’s setup guide appears to be written by their legal department, and is only suitable if I want to huck to flat my bike off the roof. I think CCS86’s calculator is a big improvement, but it still feels a bit harsh for me when I’m riding natural trails, and I suspect that it might be most ideal for those running fast man-made trails that allows for high speed (and jumps). As a third alternative I have been experimenting with even lower pressures based on Dougal and others low-pressure suggestions and doing the math on those to match my weight, although I am not sure what the ideal formula should be. For the 160mm 29er fork think something like weight in kilograms * 0.75 for the IRT and weight in kilos * 0.48 for the main should be in the ballpark. And these should be run with LSC fully closed, HSC fully open, and fast rebound settings, ideally with the MY2021 rebound tune.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Just a maintenance note for those who've had their Mezzer for a while. Because I haven't had mine apart since April and that's a lot of riding!

Check and reset your air pressures. 
Over time and with use the higher pressure IRT makes it's way into the main chamber making the fork firmer off the top. Resetting your air pressures fixes that. Probably should be a 3 month thing.
Check air spring when doing lower leg service.
When you're doing your lower leg services, clean and grease the air-spring too. They slowly ingest oil from the lowers and over 6 months to a year the oil in there reduces your negative air volume. Also making the fork firmer off the top.

My original Mezzer came in for service last week after about 1.5 years with it's new owner. This fork is 2.5 years old now and holding up great.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

is the vtt6 damper superior to the mc2 damper? Because I think as the VTT6 uses a second compression piston where the force from the compression adjuster is applied to, that thing could work even better, as the main piston stays untouched and the shims without pretension.
Did someone have the possibility to ride a mezzer pro and expert with irt side to side?

I wonder if one could modify the VTT 6 with the HBO cones from the mattoc pro


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

bansaiman said:


> is the vtt6 damper superior to the mc2 damper? Because I think as the VTT6 uses a second compression piston where the force from the compression adjuster is applied to, that thing could work even better, as the main piston stays untouched and the shims without pretension.
> Did someone have the possibility to ride a mezzer pro and expert with irt side to side?
> 
> I wonder if one could modify the VTT 6 with the HBO cones from the mattoc pro


I literally just got my mezzer expert with a IRT with the full intend of the ease of playing with shims with the VTT6. I feel it had huge potential, and being a open damper, it's quick and easy to make changes compared to a cartridge like in the pro. The vtt looks really interesting from a tuning side to me but seems to have completely flown under the radar.

I also was looking at my mattoc comp seeing if i could swap the hbo from it to!

I was actually thinking we should start a vtt tuning thread!

I sure hope it's as great as ABS plus!


----------



## skulltractor (Nov 14, 2009)

Dougal, do you have the dimensions of the IRT seals? I've reset the pressures, and cleaned and serviced the air spring but still seem to get air migration into the main chamber. Tried buying the mezzer service kit but it is sold out everywhere.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

boostinmini said:


> I literally just got my mezzer expert with a IRT with the full intend of the ease of playing with shims with the VTT6. I feel it had huge potential, and being a open damper, it's quick and easy to make changes compared to a cartridge like in the pro. The vtt looks really interesting from a tuning side to me but seems to have completely flown under the radar.
> 
> I also was looking at my mattoc comp seeing if i could swap the hbo from it to!
> 
> ...


As Long as there ist enough spacer between compressiom and Rebounds unit,one should be able to attach those cones to the vtt by fitting a threadbfor Them to fit.

Did you have the pro before and can say Something in comparison?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

skulltractor said:


> Dougal, do you have the dimensions of the IRT seals? I've reset the pressures, and cleaned and serviced the air spring but still seem to get air migration into the main chamber. Tried buying the mezzer service kit but it is sold out everywhere.


-110 and -122 O-rings.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Damn, had a 3 page read, stopped getting notifications 😅
Anyway, came to ask, since my fork is off for warranty still, what is the diameter of the lower legs? I wonder if I'll be able to fit the mud guard I got.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you have to run the fork settings open, you’re running two much pressure.


My experience is different and definitely don't agree with that statement. I've experimented quite a bit and my settings vary between these 3 setups depending on how I feel on any given day and how close to my personal limit I want to descend.

35/55, LSC fully closed, HSC open or 3 clicks from closed, rebound 1 click from fully open
35/70, LSC and HSC fully open, rebound 1 click from fully open
40/70, LSC and HSC fully open; rebound 2 clicks from fully open
.
I am 150 pounds out of the shower, Mezzer at 160 on a Forbidden Druid with Cascade link resulting in 142mm rear travel with 64-64.5 head angle. I like all 3 setups very much depending on what ride character I prefer on any given day. Small bump compliance and overall suppleness feels best on the 35/55 setup, but if I really want to haul ass at high speed with bigger jumps, the 40/70 setup feels best. That's the beauty of the Mezzer...its adjustability. Mind you, I am a 51 year old washed up dad who loves to ride for fun, don't race and never have. Am slow as molasses going up, but can hold my own pretty well on any tricky technical ledgy climbs and hauling ass downhill...most of the riders (unfortunately not all) around me who kick my ass on the descents are typically 15-30 years younger than me.

Anyway, I digress. I think the one big caveat with the Mezzer is small bump compliance and suppleness at lower speed range. Yes, you can get there with very low main chamber pressures, but it results in a lot of sag, which is no good for preserving geometry, especially in the steeps. In my 35/55 setup I am getting at least 40mm sag and that's in seated position (thus, even more when standing). With my coiled (Smashpot) Pike and air Fox 36 Grip2 I am getting around 30-32mm sag on my preferred setups. I am guessing the high pressure figures recommended by Manitou are more with emphasis on geometry preservation and possibly with the goal of around 15% sag in standing position...just guessing though, as those recommended figures are way too stiff for me.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fizzywater said:


> My experience is different and definitely don't agree with that statement. I've experimented quite a bit and my settings vary between these 3 setups depending on how I feel on any given day and how close to my personal limit I want to descend.
> 
> 35/55, LSC fully closed, HSC open or 3 clicks from closed, rebound 1 click from fully open
> 35/70, LSC and HSC fully open, rebound 1 click from fully open
> ...


Your split in settings is pretty much where I was before I softened the damper. After reducing the damping (shim swap from 17.5 to 12mm) I was able to run the pressure I should run.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have used a non-burnished and burnished Mezzer and the burnished Mezzer makes the small bump on par with something like a Grip2 36. 

Not quite coil category but it puts the Mezzer right with other forks I have used - Ohlins RFX 36 EVO, Formula Selva air, 36 - which have better small bump out of the box than the Mezzer in my experience.

Without burnishing I think you are spot on where you have to live with it or compromise the setup which can cause headaches elsewhere trying to maintain a balanced setup.

On the non-burnished Mezzer I really only noticed if riding a different fork as I think we adjust pretty quickly and the other benefits of the Mezzer are still there and active.

Don't want to give the impression that the Mezzer is crap for small bump just not as plush as some other options there which balances out later on in the stroke...horses for courses deal I reckon.


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I've burnished four forks now (two are mine, two are friends). Small sample size, but oh well.

My 2019 Mezzer needed the burnishing quite badly, I ran it through there a few times and it really helped it slide freely.

The other 3 were 2020+ models and they barely needed burnishing. I would say it wouldn't have been worth it if I didn't already have the tool. 

Also, I thought the 36 GRIP2 small bump was crap, and the Mezzer (likely because of the two positive air chambers) has significantly better small bump.

Are you sure you don't just need to add some lube?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Sorry, I'll interrupt your bushing debate, 170mm travel with less sag vs 180mm more sag for riding everything from park to flow trails and uphills? Would go on a bike with 160mm rear travel that's designed around a 170mm fork that's 5mm longer than 170 Mezzer or 5mm shorter than 180mm Mezzer, if it matters, I'm under 60kg kitted up and rode semi aggressively (was able to take full advantage of mattoc 150mm HBO often and hard)
Also, I'll ask again, could someone tell me the outside diameter of the lower legs?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Also, I'll ask again, could someone tell me the outside diameter of the lower legs?


A little under 44mm according to cheapo calipers.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

piciu256 said:


> Also, I'll ask again, could someone tell me the outside diameter of the lower legs?


What fender are you looking at that requires the exact diameter of the lowers? Most I've seen either ziptie/velcro on, or bolt to the arch like the stock fender.

I use a Mucky Nutz MugGuard Long on my Mezzer. I just cut new holes for the velcro for the arch (just lined it up, and eyeballed the locations, marked with a marker), and it works just fine. The stock fender was ok, but woefully undersized for riding where its actually wet.

Only photo that I have handy.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

One that will also protect my feet, not just face and maybe chest, Zefal No Mud, it has a proprietary mounting system, couldn't think of a way to replace it with zip ties, turned out max possible diameter was 42mm, but since the straps are made of nylon and that's close enough, I was able to make it fit onto a 45mm tube (just so happens my bike stand tube is this diameter) with a little bit of elbow grease and a heat gun.








Will only be mounted for winter riding, in summer the stock fender is plenty enough imo, I try to avoid muck if possible.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> Sorry, I'll interrupt your bushing debate, 170mm travel with less sag vs 180mm more sag for riding everything from park to flow trails and uphills? Would go on a bike with 160mm rear travel that's designed around a 170mm fork that's 5mm longer than 170 Mezzer or 5mm shorter than 180mm Mezzer, if it matters, I'm under 60kg kitted up and rode semi aggressively (was able to take full advantage of mattoc 150mm HBO often and hard)
> Also, I'll ask again, could someone tell me the outside diameter of the lower legs?


I found 180mm front put the front too high when climbing. 170mm was the right compromise for me.
I was running the Mezzer on a 165mm Bergamont Encore Team and now on a 175mm Knolly Warden.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

fizzywater said:


> My experience is different and definitely don't agree with that statement. I've experimented quite a bit and my settings vary between these 3 setups depending on how I feel on any given day and how close to my personal limit I want to descend.
> 
> 35/55, LSC fully closed, HSC open or 3 clicks from closed, rebound 1 click from fully open
> 35/70, LSC and HSC fully open, rebound 1 click from fully open
> ...


I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, it seems like your pressures are low which would agree with my comment?

I'm 190# plus kit.

And like Dougal suggested a sticky fork will change how the fork responds, which can lead to higher pressures.

I think over time the Mezzers have loosened up, perhaps the bushing fit has improved?

My late 2021 Mezzer is good.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

47 miles in on the new Mezzer. Holy smokes is this thing a game changer for me. Believe the hype! 

I know I wrote I would post a comparison to the Onyx but I’m sure there are no lack of those anecdotes on these pages. I did post my first impressions over in the Ripmo AF thread but to sum it up real quick here: 

The Mezzer rides high with great support and with rebound in the middle setting, it feels very lively when I want to pop off things but still remain plush on the chunky hits. This is the part where my brain still cannot fathom how it functions so well on both ends of the spectrum. To me the Onyx or Diamond are pretty good, they plow, they’re plush but it’s not as supportive as the Mezzer. And if I make them supportive either by adding more air or dialing in LSC, my hands would ache on rough sections of descents. The LSC adjustment is mostly limited to a super useful range of 1, because 2 felt way too stiff. Anyhoo, none of those compromises on the Mezzer. 

Still experimenting and considering the shim mod but where I’m sitting at, this thing greatly outperforms the Onyx straight out the box. I’m still not sure about the reverse arch and the unconventional hexle but the performance easily make me overlook these cosmetics. I’m also on the MY21 model and no issues thus far (touch wood).


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

Is there any company that makes aftermarket dust seal kits? Haven't found anywhere with OEM seals in stock (that aren't crazy shipping prices - I am in Australia). Are there any other seals that fit? I see Showa do a 37mm fork seal for motorbikes, but I assume they are unlikely to fit.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

benno_r said:


> Is there any company that makes aftermarket dust seal kits? Haven't found anywhere with OEM seals in stock (that aren't crazy shipping prices - I am in Australia). Are there any other seals that fit? I see Showa do a 37mm fork seal for motorbikes, but I assume they are unlikely to fit.


I got a shipment yesterday. Haven't received them into stock yet but we've got them.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

Dougal said:


> I got a shipment yesterday. Haven't received them into stock yet but we've got them.


I'll keep an eye out for a website update.

On another note, my 37mm foam rings are super stretched and not mounting in very nicely, would it be possible to stretch 36mm foam rings to fit in the interim?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

fizzywater said:


> My experience is different and definitely don't agree with that statement. I've experimented quite a bit and my settings vary between these 3 setups depending on how I feel on any given day and how close to my personal limit I want to descend.
> 
> 35/55, LSC fully closed, HSC open or 3 clicks from closed, rebound 1 click from fully open
> 35/70, LSC and HSC fully open, rebound 1 click from fully open
> ...


You could also Coil the mezzer as you already have the integrated HBO.
Or Just let a Tuner so some fricton Reduktion magic...rulezman Suspension would be a great example for that


----------



## DrHarry (Nov 29, 2018)

So after playing around with the settings a bit, it seems like 120/80 is pretty ideal pressure for my weight. 120/90 rode quite well but was definitely a lot firmer. 100/90 was way too soft off the top and couldn't keep up with the compressions, especially high speed chatter, but also pretty bad in rock gardens.

So I'm going 120/80 and now need to play with the adjustability.

Slow speed compression seems fine, and high speed is pretty good, but on really fast bumps you can definitely feel it, struggling to keep up. I'm inclined to start to gradually open up the HSC but leave LSC as is.

Should I touch my rebound at all to help in this area?


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

bansaiman said:


> You could also Coil the mezzer as you already have the integrated HBO.
> Or Just let a Tuner so some fricton Reduktion magic...rulezman Suspension would be a great example for that


Definitely no intentions to coil the Mezzer. At some point I may get the compression damping revalved, but I am actually pretty happy with the Mezzer the way it is...not perfect, but pretty damn good overall.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me, it seems like your pressures are low which would agree with my comment?
> 
> I'm 190# plus kit.
> 
> ...


You stated that "If you have to run the fork settings open, you’re running two much pressure". My experience/opinion is just different than yours. I've found settings with compression clickers fully open that work very well for me and other settings with LSC fully closed that I like too. It just depends on how hard and what I want to ride.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

@DrHarry you may find that when you make the compression damping softer, you'll have to slow the rebound down a bit, depends on how drastic of changes you'll make.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So, received my fork back today, was hoping for the new style lowers with bleed screws, still the older ones, oh well, anyway, there no longer is play in the bushings, however they are now really tight, tighter than my mattocs were, is there anyone is Poland or near by with a 37mm burnishing tool at hand, willing to rent it?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> So, received my fork back today, was hoping for the new style lowers with bleed screws, still the older ones, oh well, anyway, there no longer is play in the bushings, however they are now really tight, tighter than my mattocs were, is there anyone is Poland or near by with a 37mm burnishing tool at hand, willing to rent it?


[email protected] do it For around 50 euro


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'll consider it, shipping to Germany is not terribly expensive.
Depends how much making a tool for myself would cost, awaiting reply.


----------



## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Been reading up on Mezzer as a possible new fork. What's your guys opinions on the Expert as opposed to the Pro. Is it a good fork? Or should it be avoided?


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

richulr said:


> Been reading up on Mezzer as a possible new fork. What's your guys opinions on the Expert as opposed to the Pro. Is it a good fork? Or should it be avoided?


My Expert was very very good for my 220lb weight, and then I added the IRT for $50 and it got even better. I kind of like the simplicty of the Experts dampening vs the Pro's...


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'd say the expert is a really good fork, easier to setup so harder to screw it up, if the older ABS+ Machete Pro is any indication, it should still run circles around a pike or lyric, aspecially with some easy custom tuning.

Had a first ride on my mezzer today, the bushings freed up considerably on the way, there isn't so much breakaway stiction anymore, certainly less than my Mattoc had, however, I'm not sure how to feel about the performance, I didn't think I'd notice the stiffness difference, but I certainly did, there is quite a lot more chatter transferred through the handlebars, stuff too small to be taken out by the suspension, but too large for the tire to smooth out completely, apparently a fork can be too stiff 😅
It did handle large holes quite a bit better though, be it the diffent damper tune (I ended up taking out one of the 17.5mm shims) or lower friction and 20mm more travel, I'm sure it'll be a blast once I get it to some proper trails.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> I'd say the expert is a really good fork, easier to setup so harder to screw it up, if the older ABS+ Machete Pro is any indication, it should still run circles around a pike or lyric, aspecially with some easy custom tuning.
> 
> Had a first ride on my mezzer today, the bushings freed up considerably on the way, there isn't so much breakaway stiction anymore, certainly less than my Mattoc had, however, I'm not sure how to feel about the performance, I didn't think I'd notice the stiffness difference, but I certainly did, there is quite a lot more chatter transferred through the handlebars, stuff too small to be taken out by the suspension, but too large for the tire to smooth out completely, apparently a fork can be too stiff 😅
> It did handle large holes quite a bit better though, be it the diffent damper tune (I ended up taking out one of the 17.5mm shims) or lower friction and 20mm more travel, I'm sure it'll be a blast once I get it to some proper trails.



DZ Suspension Germany or rulezman suspension italy will make the mezzer a contender to the far more expensive EXT Era. 
Friction tuning, polishing, shimming. DZ is cheaper with 150-200 euro and the more expensive rulezman makes the best possible out of the mezzer but costs 420 euro


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

I liked my DZ tuned mezzer more than my era. It perhaps used travel a bit more easily but was better in general in every aspect


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Bushing sizing, sure, but I'm not sold on the polishing thing, we need rough surface for oil film retention, just like on cars, a polished cylinder is toast, smooth glides nicely when dry, with no load, but with side loading you need a proper oil film that's not wiped away by the bushings. Plus it's not really economical imo, 400€ is half the forks price, I mean c'mon, of course it's gonna be avesome if you spend that much.


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

bansaiman said:


> I liked my DZ tuned mezzer more than my era. It perhaps used travel a bit more easily but was better in general in every aspect


Does DZ have a website or anything? Where can you reach them and see their work?


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

First ride on a Mezzer and the travel is sticking/creeping down. Resetting main chamber pressure and position helps temporarily. Running approx 60/90.

This something that I can troubleshoot without replacement parts? I'm on a long weekend riding trip and would prefer not to F with the fork pressures at the top of every climb.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> DZ Suspension Germany or rulezman suspension italy will make the mezzer a contender to the far more expensive EXT Era.
> Friction tuning, polishing, shimming. DZ is cheaper with 150-200 euro and the more expensive rulezman makes the best possible out of the mezzer but costs 420 euro


I find it interesting you think the Mezzer needs modified to be a contender of the EXT. When it is already a better chassis, spring, damper and stock tune.



GH28 said:


> First ride on a Mezzer and the travel is sticking/creeping down. Resetting main chamber pressure and position helps temporarily. Running approx 60/90.
> 
> This something that I can troubleshoot without replacement parts? I'm on a long weekend riding trip and would prefer not to F with the fork pressures at the top of every climb.


You mean it's losing height? I've not seen that on a Mezzer but it has to be the main air-seal or equalisation valve. Can you pull the air-shaft and inspect/grease the main seal?


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I find it interesting you think the Mezzer needs modified to be a contender of the EXT. When it is already a better chassis, spring, damper and stock tune.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean it's losing height? I've not seen that on a Mezzer but it has to be the main air-seal or equalisation valve. Can you pull the air-shaft and inspect/grease the main seal?


I could but I'm not going to unless there's a very good reason to.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> I could but I'm not going to unless there's a very good reason to.


Do you want a solution or do you want sympathy?


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Do you want a solution or do you want sympathy?


Neither, but sympathy least of all. Before any "solution" can be identified, have to know all the single point failures that could manifest themselves that way.

Can an air cap on the lug be on too tight and slightly actuate the red push rod?

Is there any clever way to force the issue so I can identify it better on the stand?

Additional info: Before the fork was first installed, I pulled the air spring the install a 10mm spacer to bring it down to 170mm from 180mm. I greased the main piston seal. None were touched besides that.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Neither, but sympathy least of all. Before any "solution" can be identified, have to know all the single point failures that could manifest themselves that way.
> 
> Can an air cap on the lug be on too tight and slightly actuate the red push rod?
> 
> ...


If it was the cap, you could simply go for a ride without the cap. I've only found one fork with a cap that released air and it wasn't a Manitou. The seal in the cap was broken and depressing the core.

Strap the fork down, if it doesn't return to full height after then you have air bypassing the main seal somehow. Even a hair or fibre on the main seal will let it bypass enough to lose height.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> If it was the cap, you could simply go for a ride without the cap. I've only found one fork with a cap that released air and it wasn't a Manitou. The seal in the cap was broken and depressing the core.
> 
> Strap the fork down, if it doesn't return to full height after then you have air bypassing the main seal somehow. Even a hair or fibre on the main seal will let it bypass enough to lose height.


And how would one narrow down from main seal to air/communication rod seals?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> And how would one narrow down from main seal to air/communication rod seals?


I've only ever seen one fork with an equalisation rod issue and that was a Mattoc that was missing an o-ring. Not really possible on the Mezzer.
I'd put money on the main piston quad-ring.

If it was end-cap you'd have pressurised lowers and fork gaining height.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I've only ever seen one fork with an equalisation rod issue and that was a Mattoc that was missing an o-ring. Not really possible on the Mezzer.
> I'd put money on the main piston quad-ring.
> 
> If it was end-cap you'd have pressurised lowers and fork gaining height.


What would the leak path be to pressurize the lowers in the end cap case?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> What would the leak path be to pressurize the lowers in the end cap case?


Shaft seal.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

GH28 said:


> Neither, but sympathy least of all. Before any "solution" can be identified, have to know all the single point failures that could manifest themselves that way.
> 
> Can an air cap on the lug be on too tight and slightly actuate the red push rod?
> 
> ...


Perhaps you pulled the screws of the Casting right while the fork was Not Fully extended.then you have negative pressure in the Casting which sucks the fork Into its travel so that you can never pull IT Out completely.
In this Case loosen the screws of the Casting pull IT of a cm to Release the Negative pressure and Then tigjten the screws only one Turn,pull the fork gently while tightening the screws completely


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> I find it interesting you think the Mezzer needs modified to be a contender of the EXT. When it is already a better chassis, spring, damper and stock tune.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean it's losing height? I've not seen that on a Mezzer but it has to be the main air-seal or equalisation valve. Can you pull the air-shaft and inspect/grease the main seal?



Stock mezzer has more friction than the era.a mezzer With burnished bushings and some polishing of the sliding surfaces reshimming and Lighter Damper oil is smoother than the Era of the top and troughout the travel.the mezzer stays very high I the travel but the Era keeps a bit more in reserve.while I was never able to get the Era to Feel aß commected to the Grund or good to my hands asthe mezzer No Matter If I went With identical,Higher or lease pressure than the recommendations. But somehow every reviewer thinks the Era fork ist the best outthere while IT Beated the crap Out of my hands in Bikeparks.

A Problem For me With the global Situation ist when Delivery of all International Produkts geht's wieder würde can I get 37mm düst wipers in the future.35-36mm a far more easy to get hold of.

As both forks Use an IRT Style spring,the Era With additional Coil and With only high Quality metal parts Info Not get why you das the mezzer spring is Superior to the era's. Can you please explain what Males IT better?


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Shaft seal.


Still don't understand what the shaft seal has to do with the poppet? Missing something here.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It has nothing to do with it... He told you how to isolate the poppet (remove air cap) and told you how to test the main seal overnight (strap the fork down) just combine the 2 together, if you'll find the fork sucked down in the morning, but the pressure will be the same, it's the main seal, if you find the pressure dropped a lot, then it's the poppet, you can assume it's not the shaft seal, as that would result in the opposite outcome to what you're getting.
Anyway, taking the fork apart would take you whole 5 minutes and you could confirm or deny the main seal at that, but you instead posted a couple of questions and appeared not to have read the answers.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> It has nothing to do with it... He told you how to isolate the poppet (remove air cap) and told you how to test the main seal overnight (strap the fork down) just combine the 2 together, if you'll find the fork sucked down in the morning, but the pressure will be the same, it's the main seal, if you find the pressure dropped a lot, then it's the poppet, you can assume it's not the shaft seal, as that would result in the opposite outcome to what you're getting.
> Anyway, taking the fork apart would take you whole 5 minutes and you could confirm or deny the main seal at that, but you instead posted a couple of questions and appeared not to have read the answers.


No. I've read everything there. I'm replying to a condition he described which you missed (the lowers being pressurized). I'm on a road trip with it and have to be careful about what time/effort I spend making a mess to troubleshoot it.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude read carefully what he said, or keep on being frustrated with the fork lowering during a ride. He mentioned all the possibilities, and you fixtaed on the one that's not your case.
If I were you, I'd open the fork just after posting the question, just to be sure I'm not wasting time.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Dude read carefully what he said, or keep on being frustrated with the fork lowering during a ride. He mentioned all the possibilities, and you fixtaed on the one that's not your case.


So not being helpful to anyone then? Cool. Eat **** and move along.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Are serious dude? You got every answer possible, stop being a self entitled ass and listen to the advice you yourself asked for, or stop trolling.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Are serious dude? You got every answer possible, stop being a self entitled ass and listen to the advice you yourself asked for, or stop trolling.


Nothing says I'm not. It was directed at you specifically since you're adding nothing.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

By the way, if anyone is interested in this like I was, this mud guard in conjunction with the stock one did an amazing job at protecting me from tire spray  Definitely function over form though.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Stock mezzer has more friction than the era.a mezzer With burnished bushings and some polishing of the sliding surfaces reshimming and Lighter Damper oil is smoother than the Era of the top and troughout the travel.the mezzer stays very high I the travel but the Era keeps a bit more in reserve.while I was never able to get the Era to Feel aß commected to the Grund or good to my hands asthe mezzer No Matter If I went With identical,Higher or lease pressure than the recommendations. But somehow every reviewer thinks the Era fork ist the best outthere while IT Beated the crap Out of my hands in Bikeparks.
> 
> A Problem For me With the global Situation ist when Delivery of all International Produkts geht's wieder würde can I get 37mm düst wipers in the future.35-36mm a far more easy to get hold of.
> 
> As both forks Use an IRT Style spring,the Era With additional Coil and With only high Quality metal parts Info Not get why you das the mezzer spring is Superior to the era's. Can you please explain what Males IT better?


If you're going to mix a coil with air in series you need to match rates. Get the rates out of sync and you get really funky dynamics. This is why Manitou had 5 spring-rates available for the MARS air-coil forks.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Dougal said:


> If you're going to mix a coil with air in series you need to match rates. Get the rates out of sync and you get really funky dynamics. This is why Manitou had 5 spring-rates available for the MARS air-coil forks.


Sounds Logic.

But why do you das that the mezzer plastic air
spring and Damper are better than the Era's?


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

Hey all, I had my CSU replaced and afterwards the performance of my Mezzer feels off. It feels like excessive ramp up at the end of travel. I am around 90 kg full kit, with 89/60 psi for IRT/main.
I pulled the lowers, and did a full air spring service. With both the Main and IRT empty, the shock pump connected to the main to equalize pressure, getting through the entire travel is difficult. I have total travel set to 150 mm, and the last 15-20 mm to bottom out is almost a struggle when fully assembled, all air chambers depressurized and shock pump connected to equalize pos/neg. When I tried just the air assembly, everything felt smooth. and bottoming out the shaft was effortless. The damper side felt the same. I have my one year damper rebuild scheduled with MRC in Germany for April.
Are there things I need to check for, or is there a chance the distributor messed something up when performing the CSU warranty replacement?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Leaky shaft seal? First thought was too much oil, but the damper cannot be overfilled, and the lowers were checked.


----------



## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

Hi, all: I'm apparently a Hayes/Manitou fan boy. Bought a Mezzer Pro last fall. Then Dominion a4 brakes over the winter. Now a Mara Pro. Coming from Marzocchi Z1 coil up front (now on the ESD) and a Bomber CR (550 spring). Everything's good, but the Mezzer is super progressive. I'm old and try to keep my wheels on the ground anymore, and I find that, even when I ride hard, with enough pressures to keep the fork reasonably high in travel (like 50/65 psi at 100kg) I'm leaving nearly 2 inches between the o-ring and the top. I seem to remember, reading through this mega-thread, that Dougal mentioned trying to make the Mezzer less progressive, and I'm wondering whether there was any progress on that.
Thanks - Kelly


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I think the less progressive thing is mostly for lighter riders like me, but I don't have any issues using full travel @170mm while weighing 55kg, maybe you just don't need that much travel?
ps. the travel doesn't end at the top of the stanchion, I hope you realize that, it ends a bit lower.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The Mezzer takes a lot of force to bottom out from the air in the lowers. At 180mm of travel, it is something like 180lbs of force just from the lowers. It's about the same amount of force as what is needed to bottom out a Lyrik with the top cap removed (lowers + negative air chamber).

Dougal had suggested pulling the lower breathers and then reinstalling the caps with the legs compressed some so at full extension the lowers are under a bit of vacuum.

The amount of oil used in the lowers makes a difference here as well. More oil will increase the compression ratio in the lowers.


----------



## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

Mike: thank you - I'll try the tricks you mentioned.
Piciu: I don't think I mentioned how much travel I've set these to; I also know there's about 30mm of HBO; finally, yep - I'm kind of a heavy lightweight anymore - I've had trouble bottoming the Z1, even with a medium spring, so that's why I'm asking if I can lighten the progression on the Mezzer - to get the full travel.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Does the fork feel bad though? Or are you just worried about the unused travel, I feel like Steve from Volsprung has the right idea about this, if you're happy with the responsiveness and support of the suspension, but you're not using full travel, just cut the travel indicator oring off.


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

piciu256 said:


> Does the fork feel bad though? Or are you just worried about the unused travel, I feel like Steve from Volsprung has the right idea about this, if you're happy with the responsiveness and support of the suspension, but you're not using full travel, just cut the travel indicator oring off.


So, great question ... there's no o-ring, but I tend to ride more natural chunky terrain. And based on the recomentations by the spreadsheet and recommendations from Manitou ... I would expect that I would utilize more of my travel. I'm not expecting to bottom out or be using full travel every ride ... but I seem to be using mostly 40-60% of my travel. And then it is really harsh towards the end of travel. I assume I would use up to 80% on most days with the last 20% for oh S son, I dun F'd up for those special moments. And right now, it feels excessively progressive at the end.
Again IRT/main 89/60, 90 kg full kit.
HSC 3 from close
LSC 6 from close
Rebound 6 from close


----------



## Nakkipata (Feb 20, 2019)

It sounds like you are having too much of a fork for your riding. If that’s a case, you may have too much of a bike as well. My lucky guess would be an enduro bike for mild trail riding. Absolutely terrible combo!

There is a reason why so many of us are into down country bikes these says. For most of us, it is the right tool for the job.

ps. Sometimes more is less, and bikes travel can be one of these occasions.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I wouldn't be so sure about that, he may not be riding aggreively enough for using the whole travel often, but I'd expect to see the bottom when making a mistake etc. anyway, even if he wasn't strong, that's just going by the fact that I'm able to generate enough force to bottom the fork out, and I weight almost half as much. (20% sag, pressure from the calculator, haven't played around with it yet)
Anyway, I'm having a major case of deja Vu right now, several different people asking for advice on the same topic, I got lost in who said what 😅


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

2xdareya said:


> Hi, all: I'm apparently a Hayes/Manitou fan boy. Bought a Mezzer Pro last fall. Then Dominion a4 brakes over the winter. Now a Mara Pro. Coming from Marzocchi Z1 coil up front (now on the ESD) and a Bomber CR (550 spring). Everything's good, but the Mezzer is super progressive. I'm old and try to keep my wheels on the ground anymore, and I find that, even when I ride hard, with enough pressures to keep the fork reasonably high in travel (like 50/65 psi at 100kg) I'm leaving nearly 2 inches between the o-ring and the top. I seem to remember, reading through this mega-thread, that Dougal mentioned trying to make the Mezzer less progressive, and I'm wondering whether there was any progress on that.
> Thanks - Kelly


Hook a pump on the bottom valve and check you can fully stroke the fork. You may get some resistance the first time as the damper bleeds out excess oil.
50/65psi is pretty light for a 100kg rider. But if you ride rearwards and don't load the fork much it could be appropriate.



mike156 said:


> Dougal had suggested pulling the lower breathers and then reinstalling the caps with the legs compressed some so at full extension the lowers are under a bit of vacuum.


Don't do that. I just suggest it as a warning for people who accidentally do it. As an intentional thing it just sucks air and contaminants past the wipers.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Doubleclutch said:


> So, great question ... there's no o-ring, but I tend to ride more natural chunky terrain. And based on the recomentations by the spreadsheet and recommendations from Manitou ... I would expect that I would utilize more of my travel. I'm not expecting to bottom out or be using full travel every ride ... but I seem to be using mostly 40-60% of my travel. And then it is really harsh towards the end of travel. I assume I would use up to 80% on most days with the last 20% for oh S son, I dun F'd up for those special moments. And right now, it feels excessively progressive at the end.
> Again IRT/main 89/60, 90 kg full kit.
> HSC 3 from close
> LSC 6 from close
> Rebound 6 from close


Sounds like you are hitting the HBO way too quickly and that in turn prevents the fork to bottom out while also making the fork feel very progressive. Try increasing the main and lower the IRT, and/or add compression. I'm 10kg lighter than you and run 55/75 (main/IRT), LSC fully closed, HSC open (stock tune). I bottom out occasionally based on the o-ring but I can't say I feel it while riding, it's very smooth.

Edit: I'm running it @170 travel. Just saw you are running it at 150 so your pressures are definitely too low.


----------



## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

Piciu: I can live with less travel, but kinda like having more travel with the same support; I liked the Z1 coil for this reason. I never tried the firmest spring (I've never seen one even for sale), and the next lightest spring felt kinda like the Mezzer does now; the next lightest spring worked perfectly - a rare bottom out, with lots of support, and that's what I'm seeking here.
Nakkipata: I'm not dropping off loading docks anymore, nor do I do any of the features at Plattekill like I used to, but, as I said above, I like having more than less travel; I'm riding northeast rocks/roots (think Merli Sarnoski Park) - super rough stuff, and, even as a big guy, ride as fast or faster than most of my 135lb friends. I'm on a 140mm frame and have the Mezzer set to 160mm; I have the Z1 set to 160mm on the ESD hardtail, and love that I can get all of the travel out of it (and then some), and use all of the travel (and then some) on the shocks I've used (Bomber CR w/550 & Mara Pro now) with plenty of compression damping. I've learned from enough years in a gym that I'm not the strongest guy, but even at my age can still can dl 410 for reps, so I don't think that's the problem. 
Dougal: I did hook the shock pump to the main and cycle it, as suggested about 100 pages ago, and get full travel. I'll take your advice & not do that particular trick. I'll bring the main/IRT pressures closer - that should help. I have the lsc nearly closed, and the hsc 3 clicks from open (any more and it gets super harsh on rough stuff at speed), so cranking up compression isn't really an option. I don't really ride off the back anymore, as I used to - I've learned to trust the fork (the ESD helped to teach me that), so I don't think that's it, either.
On the whole, I'm with Doubleclutch - I really like the fork (and it is over a pound lighter than the Z1), and am just seeing if there is a way (reduce the size of a shim in the compression stack? use lighter damper oil?) to reduce the progressiveness so I can use more of the available travel. I never really got on with air suspension, and the progressiveness has always been a primary reason. Don't get me wrong - the Mezzer is a wonderful bit of kit, and the Mara Pro!
First world problems to an extreme - how to get an extra inch or two of travel on my technologically amazing fork.
Thanks again - Kelly


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

May be you actually need less high speed compression damping? Just food for thought.
When I had it set stiff in my rear shock, it didn't matter how big of a huck I did, never used more travel than I did on smaller ones (as in never used full travel), even though the spring rate was appropriate, granted my low weight makes this kind of thing easier to achieve, but I don't think it's impossible for bigger guys with appropriate circumstances and setup.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Sticking down was resolved by cleaning and re-greasing the main piston quad ring. No smoking gun though from an inspection of the ring and the inside of the tube. No hair, no lint, no markings on the ring. I'd feel a lot better about it if I found a giant dog hair or something obvious.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Don't do that. I just suggest it as a warning for people who accidentally do it. As an intentional thing it just sucks air and contaminants past the wipers.


Lol, ok, it's literally what you told me to do to over come the progression in the Mezzer. I didn't do it for the exact reasons you've said though so we are in the same page there.

FWIW, the Mezzer seems like it would be better off with a coil on long travel setups. It's got the HBO already, the damper is ok, the chassis is light and stiff. Just seems like it's too progressive at higher travel settings. I could see it being pretty good at 150-160mm travel though.

That said, I've got a 27.5 Mezzer Pro low offset fork on pink bike for sale if anybody wants it. Burnished bushings and serviced like 3-4 times over the 6 months I rode it.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

2xdareya said:


> Piciu: I can live with less travel, but kinda like having more travel with the same support; I liked the Z1 coil for this reason. I never tried the firmest spring (I've never seen one even for sale), and the next lightest spring felt kinda like the Mezzer does now; the next lightest spring worked perfectly - a rare bottom out, with lots of support, and that's what I'm seeking here.
> Nakkipata: I'm not dropping off loading docks anymore, nor do I do any of the features at Plattekill like I used to, but, as I said above, I like having more than less travel; I'm riding northeast rocks/roots (think Merli Sarnoski Park) - super rough stuff, and, even as a big guy, ride as fast or faster than most of my 135lb friends. I'm on a 140mm frame and have the Mezzer set to 160mm; I have the Z1 set to 160mm on the ESD hardtail, and love that I can get all of the travel out of it (and then some), and use all of the travel (and then some) on the shocks I've used (Bomber CR w/550 & Mara Pro now) with plenty of compression damping. I've learned from enough years in a gym that I'm not the strongest guy, but even at my age can still can dl 410 for reps, so I don't think that's the problem.
> Dougal: I did hook the shock pump to the main and cycle it, as suggested about 100 pages ago, and get full travel. I'll take your advice & not do that particular trick. I'll bring the main/IRT pressures closer - that should help. I have the lsc nearly closed, and the hsc 3 clicks from open (any more and it gets super harsh on rough stuff at speed), so cranking up compression isn't really an option. I don't really ride off the back anymore, as I used to - I've learned to trust the fork (the ESD helped to teach me that), so I don't think that's it, either.
> On the whole, I'm with Doubleclutch - I really like the fork (and it is over a pound lighter than the Z1), and am just seeing if there is a way (reduce the size of a shim in the compression stack? use lighter damper oil?) to reduce the progressiveness so I can use more of the available travel. I never really got on with air suspension, and the progressiveness has always been a primary reason. Don't get me wrong - the Mezzer is a wonderful bit of kit, and the Mara Pro!
> ...



But with eyes closed ;-) or riding without travel indicator ring do you miss something? Does the fork feel of, too divey, too progressive, harsh? Or is it only your head disliking the sag indicator ring?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GH28 said:


> Sticking down was resolved by cleaning and re-greasing the main piston quad ring. No smoking gun though from an inspection of the ring and the inside of the tube. No hair, no lint, no markings on the ring. I'd feel a lot better about it if I found a giant dog hair or something obvious.


I've been there before. Had a monarch that kept leaking. In a tub of water it would be 1 bubble every 5 minutes. Changed the main air-seal, found absolutely nothing but the slow leak went away.


----------



## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> But with eyes closed ;-) or riding without travel indicator ring do you miss something? Does the fork feel of, too divey, too progressive, harsh? Or is it only your head disliking the sag indicator ring?


What an excellent question. Perception is reality, right? Trying to get the right balance between divey/progressive is the rub, so to speak. It is on the suspension bike, and I do use up all of the travel in the rear, and would like to match front and back, rather than be at the bumper in the rear and 2 inches of travel left in the front. Using the Z1, I definitely liked and used up all of the 160 when riding aggressively in chunk, and just would like the same with the Mezzer. Maybe there's just a bit of ego involved, though. I do wonder whether reducing a shim (17.5 to 12.5) or removing a shim (this is a 2020 build date with the ports on the lowers), and/or lighter damper oil (2.5, rather than 5) might help reduce the progressivity?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doubleclutch said:


> So, great question ... there's no o-ring, but I tend to ride more natural chunky terrain. And based on the recomentations by the spreadsheet and recommendations from Manitou ... I would expect that I would utilize more of my travel. I'm not expecting to bottom out or be using full travel every ride ... but I seem to be using mostly 40-60% of my travel. And then it is really harsh towards the end of travel. I assume I would use up to 80% on most days with the last 20% for oh S son, I dun F'd up for those special moments. And right now, it feels excessively progressive at the end.
> Again IRT/main 89/60, 90 kg full kit.
> HSC 3 from close
> LSC 6 from close
> Rebound 6 from close


Open the high speed compression all the way and drop the irt 5 pounds. Also make sure you are using an accurate pump. You could also have one of the forks with tight bushings.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So, for an accurate pump, while mine is consistent, being at the rock bottom of the range doesn't seem ideal to me, but I'm perfectly happy with the quality etc. of my Giyo pump, so are there maybe any aftermarket gauges one could put on those? I haven't ever seen a shock pump that goes only to 100 psi, but someone here mentioned one like that, I assume that's not standard? Electronic one isn't an option, too expenive, unless a gauge alone can be adapted to work.
@edIT, nevermind, AliExpress has those ranging to 200 psi in 5psi increments, that would be enough for both my fork and shock, apparently didn't look hard enough last time I checked this out.


----------



## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

What’s the widest tire we can fit in this fork?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

2xdareya said:


> What an excellent question. Perception is reality, right? Trying to get the right balance between divey/progressive is the rub, so to speak. It is on the suspension bike, and I do use up all of the travel in the rear, and would like to match front and back, rather than be at the bumper in the rear and 2 inches of travel left in the front. Using the Z1, I definitely liked and used up all of the 160 when riding aggressively in chunk, and just would like the same with the Mezzer. Maybe there's just a bit of ego involved, though. I do wonder whether reducing a shim (17.5 to 12.5) or removing a shim (this is a 2020 build date with the ports on the lowers), and/or lighter damper oil (2.5, rather than 5) might help reduce the progressivity?



It does in deed still sound as if it is your head. To see that the travel is used in the same amount as the rear is not the same as RIDING QUALITY which my question aimed at. 
If it FEELS GOOD don't look at that thing and forget that thing. Cut it of your fork. 

IF IT FEELS Unbalanced, ok, then overwork the damping. 

MMy personal view. I like to have reserves in the front for hard compressions nose heavy landings and to push against the forks support. If it FEELS, not looks, balanced, then I am happy with it and go on riding


----------



## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

Bainsaiman: "get only 115 of travel on your $1000 160mm fork, and be happy about it" isn't really the kind of technical information I was seeking when I posted. If you want to do that, and are happy with it, great, but that's not at all responsive to the question I posed, which is how, technically, to make the fork less progressive. I'm obviously not the only person having this issue/question, and I originally posted it b/c I saw Dougal reference the question much earlier in this thread. Maybe there isn't a way to do it, but if there is I'd like to try it.


----------



## fizzywater (Oct 1, 2005)

2xdareya said:


> Bainsaiman: "get only 115 of travel on your $1000 160mm fork, and be happy about it" isn't really the kind of technical information I was seeking when I posted. If you want to do that, and are happy with it, great, but that's not at all responsive to the question I posed, which is how, technically, to make the fork less progressive. I'm obviously not the only person having this issue/question, and I originally posted it b/c I saw Dougal reference the question much earlier in this thread. Maybe there isn't a way to do it, but if there is I'd like to try it.


I think the bottom line is you need to start experimenting more with your settings, BUT it will require you to invest in an accurate shock pump, preferably digital. I use the Venzo shock pump and am perfectly happy with it. It is around $50US and as far as I can tell the same but relabeled pump Fox and RS are selling at a higher price point. It works in 0.5 PSI increments and seems consistent. Now, maybe just start with the pressures you have, but compression settings all full open and see if that gets you closer to what you want. If no good and still to much progression, keep main pressure the same and lower IRT pressure by 10-15 PSI, ride it and see how that feels.Preferably, just make one change at a time and then ride with that setup before making any further changes.Or, another variation could be lower both, main and IRT pressure significantly but with more compression damping. Just to give you an example, after lots of trial and error, I arrived at these 3 settings that all work very well for me at 150 lbs out of the shower.

35/55, LSC fully closed, HSC open or 3 clicks from closed, rebound 1 click from fully open
35/70, LSC and HSC fully open, rebound 1 click from fully open
40/70, LSC and HSC fully open; rebound 2 clicks from fully open

Hope that helps to give you some pointers for next steps.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

2xdareya said:


> Bainsaiman: "get only 115 of travel on your $1000 160mm fork, and be happy about it" isn't really the kind of technical information I was seeking when I posted. If you want to do that, and are happy with it, great, but that's not at all responsive to the question I posed, which is how, technically, to make the fork less progressive. I'm obviously not the only person having this issue/question, and I originally posted it b/c I saw Dougal reference the question much earlier in this thread. Maybe there isn't a way to do it, but if there is I'd like to try it.



Dont cry.when I remember correctly your sag Ring only showed 1-2 cm left ,Not 5cm. So that ist not a really an issue.
I Rode my Last mezzer With pressures around 63-105 With 85 Kilo Rider weight and easily used all travel on my steep Tracks and hard compressions.
Cannot really See why you Dont Use IT all


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

See how much travel you can use in relation to full travel when pushing down on the fork (standing on the bike, using all you got in explosive shove down, but without jumping on it) with my current settings (20% sag, 2x IRT/main ratio, 30 PSI main) I can use 80% like that, but at the same time am able to use full travel if I pop off the ground.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

If you don't use full travel ever you can consider spacing the fork down to get better handling and climbing.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Just preference but I'm kind of perfectly fine with "never" using full travel. I haven't used the last 15mm of travel in like 2 years. Took a 3' drop the other day without looking at it that was more like 5-6' that rolled straight into a wheel trap. First time I've ever heard the clap of the fork bottom out and it just about put my chest into the bars. Kind of glad I had that extra travel. Maybe it didn't make a difference but I don't think I could have gotten any closer to it going badly then that and I don't think that extra 15mm in reserve hurt me.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm currently swapping the 17mm shim from the damper to the 12mm shim.
Once everything is reassembled I can clearly notice when the top of the rebound shaft meets the HBO with a clicking noise that I'm not sure it was there before.
Anyone can confirm that this is normal?









manitou mc2 hbo sound?







youtube.com


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Totally normal, you cannot hear it when riding.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Anyone else notice that this fork doesn't really extend fully by itself? With the mattoc I used to compress the fork and lift the wheel with the pump connected to extend the right amount (full travel but no top out clunk or preload) with the mezzer I have to physically pull it to get more than 165mm of avaible travel (set @170) and I feel like there is a little bit of preload then, I know 5mm doesn't account for much, but it does bother me slightly for whatever reason 😅 so I'm thinking just ditch the travel spacer and let it extend to 175 by itsellf (I do feel like this way the fork is more supple off the top, not sure it's not placebo though), or maybe fix something that isn't right?
There certainly isn't any vacuum in the lowers and the chambers do equaliser properly by the way, the fork doesn't have any massive amounts of stiction anymore either.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

piciu256 said:


> Anyone else notice that this fork doesn't really extend fully by itself? With the mattoc I used to compress the fork and lift the wheel with the pump connected to extend the right amount (full travel but no top out clunk or preload) with the mezzer I have to physically pull it to get more than 165mm of avaible travel (set @170) and I feel like there is a little bit of preload then, I know 5mm doesn't account for much, but it does bother me slightly for whatever reason 😅 so I'm thinking just ditch the travel spacer and let it extend to 175 by itsellf (I do feel like this way the fork is more supple off the top, not sure it's not placebo though), or maybe fix something that isn't right?
> There certainly isn't any vacuum in the lowers and the chambers do equaliser properly by the way, the fork doesn't have any massive amounts of stiction anymore either.


You can trim the top-out bumper to get the full top-out stroke.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you're not using anywhere near your full suspension travel, then you are riding a much stiffer platform than you bought.

I subscribe to a balanced front to rear suspension travel. I'm riding a Canfield Lithium 152/160 with a Mara Pro and a Mezzer Pro. I was riding a Canfield Tilt 138/160 with a Mara Pro and a Mezzer Pro (same fork as I'm riding now). I find that the Lithium feels more balanced and rides better than the Tilt even though the suspension design is similar and the fork is 100% unchanged in all settings from when it was running on the Tilt.

A balanced feel is good


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Personal preference is my perspective.

IMO, running out of rear travel first is fine as your legs have the strength to deal with it more easily and you tend to squat more if your front has some reserve travel. If you run out of travel front and back at the same time, it's been my experience you tend to go forward on those hits and things get sketchy.

A bike built with more front travel then back might tend to toss you OTB though where a bike built for even travel and then over forked might provide better results here. Difference likely being the bike built around uneven travel likely has a lower BB height then an over forked bike and many bikes at this point arguably have too low of BB heights.

To each their own though and just providing a different perspective.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I had my bike setup in a way that I used front and rear evenly, it was overforked though and both the fork and shock were pretty balanced damping wise, never felt like it was throwing me forward or anything, I'll say more, I was using full travel pretty much everywhere and never found it lacking in an "oh ****" moment, I assume thanks to effective damping and HBO in the fork, so I don't believe leaving some spare gives you any safety or something.


----------



## 7four8 (Sep 9, 2007)

benno_r said:


> I'll keep an eye out for a website update.
> 
> On another note, my 37mm foam rings are super stretched and not mounting in very nicely, would it be possible to stretch 36mm foam rings to fit in the interim?


I couldn’t source any 37 foam rings so order 38 foam rings from real world cycle. 35 looks too small. 37 and 38 looks the same to me. Pics show 35, 37, 38mm stacked.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

my travel O-ring has fallen off. anyone else's disintegrated?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'd say it's normal, sun is pretty rough on rubber, however I'm not sure this fork is old enough for this to happen yet, must have damaged it somehow. Anyway, it's just an oring and doesn't really serve much function anyway.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

piciu256 said:


> I'd say it's normal, sun is pretty rough on rubber, however I'm not sure this fork is old enough for this to happen yet, must have damaged it somehow. Anyway, it's just an oring and doesn't really serve much function anyway.


I'm in Scotland so not much in the way of sun. every other O-ring on my forks haven't broken up.


----------



## benno_r (Apr 7, 2021)

POAH said:


> my travel O-ring has fallen off. anyone else's disintegrated?


Mine lasted 6 months. Chucked on a 35mm Rockshox one during the last lowers service.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

1


----------



## meter-man (Mar 23, 2016)

SOLD Selling my 27.5 Mezzer. Freshly serviced by the factory, and new CSA. Asking $525+ship.



https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/3279084/



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

While we are on the subject of O-rings. Anyone aware of a good third party source in the good US of A for replacement seals on the Mezzer Pro?

When I removed my IFT to check grease, I think the o-ring of the IFT cap is nicked. I’ve been back and forth in emails with Hayes support all morning yesterday. After some wrong PNs were given to me, we finally found that a comprehensive seal kit for the Mezzer Pro has the PN 141-36713-K026. However you will not be able to find this on Hayes‘ D2C website because for some reason, their commerce team forgot to set it up.

While Hayes take care of their D2C portal, I’ve been given the AS spec for the O ring in question that was nicked and that is AS658A-021. Hayes support indicate this can be sourced from Amazon. I’ve found a handful of third party O ring manufacturers that might carry this but their minimum order is like 50, which seems wasteful. Amazon carries some o-ring kit boxes but I cannot ascertain that they contain the AS658 spec and size 21. To add to the confusion, the durometer of this piece needs to be 70 which the kits on Amazon doesn’t even indicate.

Wondering if any Mezzer Pro forebears here found a good third party solution? TIA.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just go to your local oring store, you don't need anything special, there must be stores that could send you individual parts as well, failing that. I'd be surprised if Amazon is all you have.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TanMan said:


> While we are on the subject of O-rings. Anyone aware of a good third party source in the good US of A for replacement seals on the Mezzer Pro?
> 
> When I removed my IFT to check grease, I think the o-ring of the IFT cap is nicked. I’ve been back and forth in emails with Hayes support all morning yesterday. After some wrong PNs were given to me, we finally found that a comprehensive seal kit for the Mezzer Pro has the PN 141-36713-K026. However you will not be able to find this on Hayes‘ D2C website because for some reason, their commerce team forgot to set it up.
> 
> ...


That's a -021 o-ring. Any hardware store or seal shop will have them.

I've got my own complete Mezzer kits here: Fork Service Kit for Manitou Mezzer 2020+ Forks | Shockcraft
O-ring kit: Manitou Mezzer Pro 2020+ O-Ring Kit (Shockcraft) | Shockcraft


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

Dougal said:


> That's a -021 o-ring. Any hardware store or seal shop will have them.
> 
> I've got my own complete Mezzer kits here: Fork Service Kit for Manitou Mezzer 2020+ Forks | Shockcraft
> O-ring kit: Manitou Mezzer Pro 2020+ O-Ring Kit (Shockcraft) | Shockcraft


Sweet! Might just purchase your o-ring set first. No knowing when Hayes will get their D2C portal in order. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Quick oil change and travel increase 160 to 170, so fast and easy, oil looked great as did the foam rings, one season of riding in the desert


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Quick oil change and travel increase 160 to 170, so fast and easy, oil looked great as did the foam rings, one season of riding in the desert


I also run mine at 170, but it's a 27.5. What fork are you getting next?


----------



## altodders (Apr 15, 2021)

Bleed nipples and a custom tune 🤤


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

altodders said:


> View attachment 1975287
> 
> 
> Bleed nipples and a custom tune 🤤


Is that one of Dave’s forks?


----------



## altodders (Apr 15, 2021)

springs said:


> Is that one of Dave’s forks?


Nigel Reeve from NSR Racing, Maydena Aust.


----------



## jake lecluse (Dec 24, 2021)

altodders said:


> Nigel Reeve from NSR Racing, Maydena Aust.


Just got some done by Dave. Does Nige do burnishing, bleeders and tune?


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

Anyone notice a difference in the dorado effect between the Mattoc and the Mezzer. With the Mattoc when I disconnect the pump it stays at the travel set. With the Mezzer when disconnecting the pump it stretches to full travel and I have to push against it to keep it at the travel I want. No big deal, just a difference I noticed.


----------



## altodders (Apr 15, 2021)

Yeah he has done bushings, compression tune, custom rebound piston, bleeders.

The thing is a weapon now. I have two mezzers and his tuned fork is waaaay nicer. Super supple and massive improvement in how it uses the travel more efficiently. 

The man sure knows his stuff, been around the world cup DH circuit for a long time including Stevie Smith mechanic.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Curveball said:


> I also run mine at 170, but it's a 27.5. What fork are you getting next?


Ummm, not getting another one 🙄

I’m looking at EXT, but I’m pretty happy with manitou


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

CS645 said:


> Anyone notice a difference in the dorado effect between the Mattoc and the Mezzer. With the Mattoc when I disconnect the pump it stays at the travel set. With the Mezzer when disconnecting the pump it stretches to full travel and I have to push against it to keep it at the travel I want. No big deal, just a difference I noticed.


My Mezzers stay at the selected travel. I love this feature.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

urse Ben, post: 15580458, member: 363340"]
Ummm, not getting another one 🙄

I’m looking at EXT, but I’m pretty happy with manitou
[/QUOTE]

I'm sending my Era in for service then selling it. IMHO it's not much better than the Mezzer out of the box. You can make some changes to the Mezzer and make it better. Not being able to service the Era yourself is a big drawback to me.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Cerberus75 said:


> urse Ben, post: 15580458, member: 363340"]
> Ummm, not getting another one 🙄
> 
> I’m looking at EXT, but I’m pretty happy with manitou


I'm sending my Era in for service then selling it. IMHO it's not much better than the Mezzer out of the box. You can make some changes to the Mezzer and make it better. Not being able to service the Era yourself is a big drawback to me.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I’m more curious than anything, the Mezzer works as well as anything I’ve ridden other than a Vorsprung, so I’m not in a hurry to spend money on more forks.

Right now I’m itching to get my first Pinion bike 👍


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

TylerVernon said:


> My Mezzers stay at the selected travel. I love this feature.


Yeah me too. I used it yesterday to fit my bike in the car.  On the Mezzer is just have to keep some pressure on the wheel to keep it from extending when releasing the pump. With the pump attached it stays where you put it, but when you start unscrewing the pump at a certain point it extends. With Mattoc it just stayed where you put it. Same pump. Perhaps the rod/poppet length of the equalizing valve is just set a bit differently.


----------



## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It's leaking air out the hose/valve while you are unscrewing it and only on the negative spring while the positive side has closed.

Same thing would be happening if you weren't trying to set a travel point and instead you'd have lower negative spring pressure.


----------



## oldsklrdr (May 15, 2012)

Just started going through both of the mezzer megathreads… 

Ready to ride weight is 130…
Ride predominately chunky east coast rockgardens, etc

Was debating zeb or 38 but mezzer came back on my radar. Any running updates to the fork since MY21? From my preliminary research curious whether compression and rebound will require reshim…?

Thanks!


----------



## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Have some "stealth" Mezzer Pro decals for sale if anyone wants to buy. Paid $35 for them and think they are a lot darker than it looked on the website and don't want to have to ship it back to EU to try to refund.

Has a dark grey outline unlike the stock stealth decals, but it doesn't really show unless the light hits it a certain way, otherwise it looks pretty close to black all around. 

$20 Shipped to US.


----------



## gfelix (Sep 5, 2018)

Cary said:


> Open the high speed compression all the way and drop the irt 5 pounds. Also make sure you are using an accurate pump. You could also have one of the forks with tight bushings.


bushings and HSC!

I also had issues using the travel - after calibration of my bushing it was much better. 

I also changed the proload spring of the HSC to a softer one. No I can use the clicks of the HSC. Bevore I could use just one or two of them

I liked the Mezzer bevore, now I love it


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

oldsklrdr said:


> Just started going through both of the mezzer megathreads…
> 
> Ready to ride weight is 130…
> Ride predominately chunky east coast rockgardens, etc
> ...


You will want softer compression. Pull one of the 17.5mm shims for a start. MY21 got faster rebound with one less shim in the stack.


----------



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

mike156 said:


> It's leaking air out the hose/valve while you are unscrewing it and only on the negative spring while the positive side has closed.
> 
> Same thing would be happening if you weren't trying to set a travel point and instead you'd have lower negative spring pressure.


Anything I can do to change this? It does not seem to be a big issue, but would be slightly more convenient if it stayed putt like my Mattoc.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

gfelix said:


> bushings and HSC!
> 
> I also had issues using the travel - after calibration of my bushing it was much better.
> 
> ...


where did you get the softer spring?


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Hi everyone! I have a very peculliar case with mi mezzer. It creaks loudly. I checked stem, handlebars and front brake, nothing. Dropped the front wheel and the whole thing creaked as i was twisting the stanchions. I am a strong guy, but not mr olympia and the craziest thing happened!!!! I can legit twist the fork crown around the steerer!!!! It seems the junction is so loose, that it could have snapped anytyme while riding. I will contact my local manitou distributor to see what happens next. The fork is barely a year old and ridden at 160 mm on a propain tyee mullet. I am 80 kg weight, very agressive rider with 203 mm magura mt7 up fro front. Given the circumstances i will ask to be given a brand new fork from manitou or even a dorado. I dont belive this has ever happened to anyone.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Uchwmdr said:


> Hi everyone! I have a very peculliar case with mi mezzer. It creaks loudly. I checked stem, handlebars and front brake, nothing. Dropped the front wheel and the whole thing creaked as i was twisting the stanchions. I am a strong guy, but not mr olympia and the craziest thing happened!!!! I can legit twist the fork crown around the steerer!!!! It seems the junction is so loose, that it could have snapped anytyme while riding. I will contact my local manitou distributor to see what happens next. The fork is barely a year old and ridden at 160 mm on a propain tyee mullet. I am 80 kg weight, very agressive rider with 203 mm magura mt7 up fro front. Given the circumstances i will ask to be given a brand new fork from manitou or even a dorado. I dont belive this has ever happened to anyone.


Warranty will sort you.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Warranty will sort you.


I certay hope so!! The season just started and i hope i wont be waiting without a fork for a month!


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Uchwmdr said:


> I certay hope so!! The season just started and i hope i wont be waiting without a fork for a month!


Contacted them today. They said they will give me brand new CSU. Is anyone interested in a second ha nd mezzer with brand new csu? 29 inch wheels. Im selling mine


----------



## eeyore2012 (Feb 5, 2009)

Ive read through this thread (and another I found) as much as I could handle, but theyre long and my eyes were getting crossed! ha. I am really interested in the mezzer, and a lot of the reviews I read make me inclined to think I would really like it. but then I go through 50 or so pages of the 2 really long mezzer threads on here, and Im sort of leaning away. Im all about doing consistent routine maintenance, and bracketing my settings to find the ideal settings, but thats all I want to do. I dont want to have to constantly tweak and take apart and trouble shoot why it feels different or how to make it better, which kinda seems to be the case on both threads. so I guess my question is: is the mezzer set and forget (while obviously doing routine maintenance) and most of you guys on here just enjoy tweaking, or do you really need to tweak it to get the exceptional performance that seems to be raved about? I guess its worth mentioning Im currently riding a avalanche cartridge that I just cant seem to get where I want, and craigs personality and mine dont really get along ---but thats not worth going in to. haha. 

anyway 
tia


----------



## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

I think you’re overthinking it. I own 3 and while I much prefer the Mezzer over any other fork I’ve ridden, sometimes I do tinker with the air pressure a bit. I think we all kinda wonder if we have the best setup so we like to experiment. Most of the time tho it’s set and forget. It’s super easy to drop the lowers to change the travel and oil. I’ve never messed with anything else.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

I haven’t made any changes to mine, neither. I’ve been curious about trying the shim change, but so far I’ve been happy with the performance, so I haven’t done it.


----------



## OrenPerets (May 1, 2006)

Uchwmdr said:


> Contacted them today. They said they will give me brand new CSU. Is anyone interested in a second ha nd mezzer with brand new csu? 29 inch wheels. Im selling mine


I might, depending on cost and state.

Pm?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

eeyore2012 said:


> Ive read through this thread (and another I found) as much as I could handle, but theyre long and my eyes were getting crossed! ha. I am really interested in the mezzer, and a lot of the reviews I read make me inclined to think I would really like it. but then I go through 50 or so pages of the 2 really long mezzer threads on here, and Im sort of leaning away. Im all about doing consistent routine maintenance, and bracketing my settings to find the ideal settings, but thats all I want to do. I dont want to have to constantly tweak and take apart and trouble shoot why it feels different or how to make it better, which kinda seems to be the case on both threads. so I guess my question is: is the mezzer set and forget (while obviously doing routine maintenance) and most of you guys on here just enjoy tweaking, or do you really need to tweak it to get the exceptional performance that seems to be raved about? I guess its worth mentioning Im currently riding a avalanche cartridge that I just cant seem to get where I want, and craigs personality and mine dont really get along ---but thats not worth going in to. haha.
> 
> anyway
> tia


There are all manufactureres having regular Problems and considering how much you have to Spend on other of the shelf forks to make Them Work as good as the mezzer,IT IS a No brainer.

Besides With small Tuning measures IT works Like an era.only slightly different Character. I Liked the mezzer a Lot and only Sold IT because of wheel Size Change and could not get a good Deal on 29 mezzer.

If you get a new Version you probably will Not have any great Problems and also have the possibility to mount the cheap MX valves For releasing pressure.

When I had Set IT Up correctly after some Runs in the Same rough track IT was Set and forget it. Only from time to time 2 clicks LSC in one or another Direction and that ist mostly IT.set up correctly IT works great on all Kind of Tracks without great compromise.

If you get IT new,Just Strip It down ( Like IT should be done With every of RS,Fox,suntour and so on forks) oil and Grease IT properly.

IF IT SHOULD Not perform Well enough from the beginning or be Not sensitive enough, there are some cheap tuning measures,which a mediocre Home mechanic can do by himself.
Changing thinner oil in the Damper perhaps changing of compression shims to a slightly different confirmation and changing sealings of the Air Piston For an o-ring. and If really needed For best sensitivity one can calibrate the bushings ,which IS the only Thing you WOULD Need someone to do For you.even IF one Had to pay someone to let him do all those steps For you.that would cost 150 bucks all in all.
note that this ist to get the Most Out of the fork and it raises IT to another level.but IS basically Not necessary to do. To get to that Level you will Need a runt and expensive Avy dampers For a Lyrik and Spend additional 800-1000 Dollars.
Thus the mezzer ist an extremely good of the shelf package.
I die those measures myself at Home besides callibrating the bushings,I only paid 40 Dollars For shims and damper oil to do so. This fork Just Makes you grin when riding rough trails.
I could ride faster With this one in 650b than on my tuned 29er rs fork.

Try it.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

eeyore2012 said:


> Ive read through this thread (and another I found) as much as I could handle, but theyre long and my eyes were getting crossed! ha. I am really interested in the mezzer, and a lot of the reviews I read make me inclined to think I would really like it. but then I go through 50 or so pages of the 2 really long mezzer threads on here, and Im sort of leaning away. Im all about doing consistent routine maintenance, and bracketing my settings to find the ideal settings, but thats all I want to do. I dont want to have to constantly tweak and take apart and trouble shoot why it feels different or how to make it better, which kinda seems to be the case on both threads. so I guess my question is: is the mezzer set and forget (while obviously doing routine maintenance) and most of you guys on here just enjoy tweaking, or do you really need to tweak it to get the exceptional performance that seems to be raved about? I guess its worth mentioning Im currently riding a avalanche cartridge that I just cant seem to get where I want, and craigs personality and mine dont really get along ---but thats not worth going in to. haha.
> 
> anyway
> tia





bansaiman said:


> There are all manufactureres having regular Problems and considering how much you have to Spend on other of the shelf forks to make Them Work as good as the mezzer,IT IS a No brainer.
> 
> Besides With small Tuning measures IT works Like an era.only slightly different Character. I Liked the mezzer a Lot and only Sold IT because of wheel Size Change and could not get a good Deal on 29 mezzer.
> 
> ...


Most EXT ERA have too bushings that are too tight. One size smaller air shaft ring, and everything properly greased the mezzer is just as good. I'm selling the ERA it's not worth the extra money.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Cerberus75 said:


> Most EXT ERA have too bushings that are too tight. One size smaller air shaft ring, and everything properly greased the mezzer is just as good. I'm selling the ERA it's not worth the extra money.


Yes, lighter, a bit stiffer, easy and allowed to service / tune at home. No special tools needed.release valves or service ports. Easy to travel. And not that fucking progressive. 

I can setup the mezzer to be very sensitive and supportive at the same time but that it still uses all but 1.5cm regularly and the last part from time to time when it gets really maximum rough. Era was exaggerated hard to use travel


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> Yes, lighter, a bit stiffer, easy and allowed to service / tune at home. No special tools needed.release valves or service ports. Easy to travel. And not that fucking progressive.
> 
> I can setup the mezzer to be very sensitive and supportive at the same time but that it still uses all but 1.5cm regularly and the last part from time to time when it gets really maximum rough. Era was exaggerated hard to use travel


100% agree. I got a good deal on the Era. And the wife has been on the Mezzer. As a mechanic I'm not sending my stuff off and waiting. If it needs to be reshimed for a lighter rider you can do it yourself. The Mezzer is a great fork. I just bought one and Im selling the Era. I find the mezzer to resist twist flex better than the Era.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Cerberus75 said:


> 100% agree. I got a good deal on the Era. And the wife has been on the Mezzer. As a mechanic I'm not sending my stuff off and waiting. If it needs to be reshimed for a lighter rider you can do it yourself. The Mezzer is a great fork. I just bought one and Im selling the Era. I find the mezzer to resist twist flex better than the Era.


And almost 200 Grams Lighter at the Same time is Worth to consider as well


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Came to say again how impressed I am with the performance of this fork, tested it properly this time, without the lack of rear suspension to slow me down, I still cannot believe how is it possible to make curb sized holes just disappear, no harshness, no over travel, just tracking like there is no tomorrow.
Here to say also that I'm happy to report the 2 stage updated rebound tune is fast enough for me @55kg to have 2 clicks still left before full open, also happy with the lightened (removed one shim) comp stack, supportive enough and super smooth, running the low speed just about closed.
The fork definitely feels sporty if you will, shakes me around a little when going slowly, but at speed it's like a magic carpet, definitely recommended.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

The way i see it: mezzer vs era:
Mezzer: crazy stiff chassis, litteraly coil like sensitivity, you can make it either very progressive or almost linear, easy travel adjust, goes up to 180, you can service it at home, and it looks better at least for me. Not to mention that it is cheaper. I ve never ridden the era, but from what ive read it is not much if at all better than the mezzer but way harder to get/setup/service and way more expensive.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

How I spent my Easter afternoon…










Finally got sick of the harsh square edge hits and forced myself to deal with the damper today. I’m a lighter rider at 165 kitted so a shim mod was definitely in order. I hate working with hydraulics and oil because when I do, oil just goes squirting everywhere. Today was no different-This better be worth it! 

Haven’t had a chance to test ride the setup on the trails but quick bounce test in the backyard seems to be copacetic.


----------



## Headoc (Mar 24, 2015)

eeyore2012 said:


> Ive read through this thread (and another I found) as much as I could handle, but theyre long and my eyes were getting crossed! ha. I am really interested in the mezzer, and a lot of the reviews I read make me inclined to think I would really like it. but then I go through 50 or so pages of the 2 really long mezzer threads on here, and Im sort of leaning away. Im all about doing consistent routine maintenance, and bracketing my settings to find the ideal settings, but thats all I want to do. I dont want to have to constantly tweak and take apart and trouble shoot why it feels different or how to make it better, which kinda seems to be the case on both threads. so I guess my question is: is the mezzer set and forget (while obviously doing routine maintenance) and most of you guys on here just enjoy tweaking, or do you really need to tweak it to get the exceptional performance that seems to be raved about? I guess its worth mentioning Im currently riding a avalanche cartridge that I just cant seem to get where I want, and craigs personality and mine dont really get along ---but thats not worth going in to. haha.
> 
> anyway
> tia


Ridden so many forks over the past 6 years. Have the Mezzer set up and almost never mess with it anymore. As long as you recognize that it is a very progressive fork and extremely supple off the top you'll be good. If you buy into the whole "have to use all your travel on every trail" mentality then yeah, probably not the fork for you. I live in the Southeast and when I ride the local stuff I don't use all the travel but still have great small bump compliance and great support for smaller jumps etc, and when I go further afield into the mountains or to North Carolina I have all the progressiveness you could want without bottoming the fork. Also, its way easier to tweak the leverage curve and you can make really subtle changes then you can with spacers so you are more likely to get it to a "set and forget" spot after some messing around.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

So, after riding park my thoughts still stand, really impressive performance from this fork, had to open the rebound all the way out though, to keep from being harsh over braking bumps, not sure if heavy ass wheels have anything to do with that, it was relatively cold out as well, so that may have something to do with it, 35/65 psi is here to stay, will play around with LSC on more chattery trails and for jumps, winding it out does make the fork a bit more lively and chatter a bit less intrusive, not that it is bad by any means in the first place, totally different league than my Mattoc, still wondering how it'd do if I burnished the bushings, since they are still a little tight.
I no longer worry about landing on rooty holes, starting to trust that the fork will just handle everything.
I am using full travel or just about full travel just about everywhere though, even on what you'd consider XC trails, not sure why some people have thouble with that, maybe I'm just a little more adventurous than some 🙃


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

piciu256 said:


> I am using full travel or just about full travel just about everywhere though, even on what you'd consider XC trails, not sure why some people have thouble with that, maybe I'm just a little more adventurous than some 🙃


Not a suspension expert by any means, but if you use full travel on tame terrain, how do you have the reserve for bigger hits?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Why do I need to have reserve? Never had on my Mattoc and don't see the need here either, I use it all on a 1m natural jump, as well as on a 2m huck to flat, a properly functioning damper handles this properly- as impact size increases, so does the shaft speed, and in turn the damping force, that's how I understand this anyway.
I tried increasing progression to much more than that, and all I found was that control nor comfort on hucks hasn't increased any, just never ended up using all the travel, there is no point.
I have to fork set up so that pushing hard on it on flat ground without jumping, I'm able to use about 80% of travel, if that matters.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MEzzer:

I'm 185# plus kit, now on my second Mezzer, this one is ~ three month sold, has been adjusted to 170mm, correct service, has ~ 30 hours.

Current setting have ranged is 75/50 to 60/60, sag is ~ 30%, LSC 1-2, HSC 0-1, R 6-7; setting are from full open.

I don't seem to use all of my travel no matter how hard I hammer the front end, but I get complete travel if I attach the fork shock and compress the fork.

The ride is soft off the top, then it abruptly gets firm, at most I'm getting 120-130mm of travel during a ride.

For perspective, I'm riding fast on rocky, ledgey stuff and hitting drops of 4-5'

In contrast, I use all my rear travel on a Mara Pro.

Thoughts?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Sounds like maybe there is a lot of pressure in the lowers? But that would make the off the top stiff too 🤔
How much travel are you able to use if you try your hardest to compress the fork standing on the bike without jumping? That may give a point of reference, since not using travel on the trail could come from riding off the back in theory.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

piciu256 said:


> Sounds like maybe there is a lot of pressure in the lowers? But that would make the off the top stiff too 🤔
> How much travel are you able to use if you try your hardest to compress the fork standing on the bike without jumping? That may give a point of reference, since not using travel on the trail could come from riding off the back in theory.


120-130mm if I jam down on the front end as hard as I can, pretty much teh same amount of travel I use at max intensity. 

Yes, riding terrain would determine travel use, but if you've ever ridden the black and double black trails in Southern Utah, you know there's no way you can get away without maxing fork travel once in a while.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> MEzzer:
> 
> I'm 185# plus kit, now on my second Mezzer, this one is ~ three month sold, has been adjusted to 170mm, correct service, has ~ 30 hours.
> 
> ...


Stiffen up the rear and it'll make the front work harder. Primarly because the rear riding higher changes the bike geometry and shifts your weight forwards

I recently sorted out my rear shock and it's running a lot firmer. I've since bumped my from from 35/60 to 35/80 to compensate.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Reread Your post. I'm 10lbs lighter than you on the same bike. You're using too much pressure in the main. And you're shock might need a little more.


----------



## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

Hey Mezzer experts,

I'm on my second ride on the Mezzer pro, and still shaking it down. Two questions: 

1. I find that on level, chunky ground I'm getting hung up. It's in places where I expect to be able to put power into the pedals and force the front wheel over an obstacle, but instead the fork is diving into the travel and I'm getting bucked forwards. I turned up the LSC a bit, to the point where it feels somewhat harsh . My instinct here is to add a little more pressure to the IRT before the next shakedown ride. That what you'd do too, right?

Which brings me to question 2:

2. The Mezzer setup guide says to add air to the IRT before adding air to the main. Does this apply to small incremental adjustments too? I.e. if I want to add some IRT pressure, do I need to completely drain the main chamber first? I'd suspect not, but checking...

Also, I'm North of 240 lbs if that makes any difference. I started with the default pressures for my weight.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

kbeefy said:


> 2. The Mezzer setup guide says to add air to the IRT before adding air to the main. Does this apply to small incremental adjustments too? I.e. if I want to add some IRT pressure, do I need to completely drain the main chamber first? I'd suspect not, but checking...


Add pressure to the IRT first to make it's fully extended, after that the order doesn't matter so long as you don't exceed URT pressure in the main chamber. Also, try dropping the pressure, aspecially in the main chamber, for lower speeds you need a softer spring rate to not be bucked, there is no getting around it, I find my setup is really uncomfortable and bucky at low speed over chunk, but once I let go, everything just disappears, unfortunately nobody makes suspension that adjusts on the fly for trail conditions yet 😅


Cerberus75 said:


> Reread Your post. I'm 10lbs lighter than you on the same bike. You're using too much pressure in the main. And you're shock might need a little more.


I agree, what your test of pushing down on the fork tells me is you're not using any more travel on the trail than you can in a parking lot, which means you're definitely riding out the back, plus you have a bit more spring rate than imo optimal, I always end up with about 80% travel used in this test, my fork is set @170 and I'm using 140 if I push on it hard, using full 170 pretty damn often, but I'm a pretty aggressive rider- riding out front.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

You guys pushing down straddling the bike or with feet on pedals?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Cerberus75 said:


> Reread Your post. I'm 10lbs lighter than you on the same bike. You're using too much pressure in the main. And you're shock might need a little more.


75 IRT / 50 Main 

You think the main is too high?

I’ve tried dropping the main for a 2:1 ratio and I lost all my support, sag was huge!

170mm fork, travel makes a difference,

I’ll try again.

Dougal, I’ve bumped my shock before and it was stink bugging, currently set at 140 psi, have Tim as much as 150 psi.

The two ends feel balanced jumping up and down on level ground, can’t really fault the back end, it’s the front that won’t cooperate.

I’ll keep play with it …


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Turd said:


> You guys pushing down straddling the bike or with feet on pedals?


Feet on pedals and focusing all your effort at pushing the front only, same with checking the rear, but oposite.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> 75 IRT / 50 Main
> 
> You think the main is too high?
> 
> ...


Yeah short chainstays, slack HTA and high stack. Plus if you'reshock pump goes to 250-300 it probably reads lower than whats really in the fork. I'd drop it 5psi in the main/ then 5 in the top if still not getting full travel in chunk. If too soft add a psi to one or the other at a time. I'm at 42/67 on my pump at 175lbs. I add compression on really steep downs and it's working great. Sag is about 28% but I don't use sag as an indicator of performance. Just measuring for perspective.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

kbeefy said:


> Hey Mezzer experts,
> 
> I'm on my second ride on the Mezzer pro, and still shaking it down. Two questions:
> 
> ...



In your travel bracket you need a reshim of your fork anyway. You are clearly at one extreme that ONE TUNE FOR ALL Cannot Cover.no Matter If referring to a fork's Damper or Rear shock.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Cerberus75 said:


> Yeah short chainstays, slack HTA and high stack. Plus if you'reshock pump goes to 250-300 it probably reads lower than whats really in the fork. I'd drop it 5psi in the main/ then 5 in the top if still not getting full travel in chunk. If too soft add a psi to one or the other at a time. I'm at 42/67 on my pump at 175lbs. I add compression on really steep downs and it's working great. Sag is about 28% but I don't use sag as an indicator of performance. Just measuring for perspective.


I mentioned the geo because there's not a lot of weight on the front.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> Feet on pedals and focusing all your effort at pushing the front only, same with checking the rear, but oposite.


 Good, I was tinkering around in the shop reading a few above literally. gave it a try straddling the bike and had flashbacks of penetrating my achilles area on old school 3x back in the day. Then I called myself a wimp after getting about 100mm of 160.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Cerberus75 said:


> Yeah short chainstays, slack HTA and high stack. Plus if you'reshock pump goes to 250-300 it probably reads lower than whats really in the fork. I'd drop it 5psi in the main/ then 5 in the top if still not getting full travel in chunk. If too soft add a psi to one or the other at a time. I'm at 42/67 on my pump at 175lbs. I add compression on really steep downs and it's working great. Sag is about 28% but I don't use sag as an indicator of performance. Just measuring for perspective.


Dropped to 70/35, sits really low in the travel, but I’m getting full travel 👍

Not sure I like it, but I’ll do some more tweaking


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Does it sit really low though, or you just feel like the handlebars are lower than you'd like, just like I did? I kept adding pressure to my Mattock, because I was riding the bike in terrain where I really should have had more travel, plus no matter how much I put in the front felt low in some situations, what I should have done but didn't think about, was get a higher rise handlebar


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

I agree with piciu256 above. Strictly based off my perception of how a fork should feel, my Mezzer feels too low and soft when I hop around in the parking lot. But when riding it, it stands up well in the midstroke and never feels like it’s sitting too deep. I have a ~10ft drop with a fairly flat landing I regularly ride and I’m not quite bottoming out on it so I’m happy with that. I’ve tried higher main chamber spring rates but find things start to get harsh. Might add a little bit more air to the IRT when bike park season comes again but I had no issues riding things like Dirt Merchant in Whistler last summer.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dropped to 70/35, sits really low in the travel, but I’m getting full travel 👍
> 
> Not sure I like it, but I’ll do some more tweaking


As the others said. Does it ride right? 28-30% sag is about right for 170mm+ travel but most forks dive thru travel too easily to do this. Ride something fast and chunky. But not overly steep. If you're slamming through the mid range add a psi or 2 to the main, and maybe 2 psi out the top if too stiff... Use your compression to maintain geometry on steep fast stuff. I find it's perfect when I only use full travel on hard hits and G outs, the rest I have 1" left.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

kapolczer said:


> I agree with piciu256 above. Strictly based off my perception of how a fork should feel, my Mezzer feels too low and soft when I hop around in the parking lot. But when riding it, it stands up well in the midstroke and never feels like it’s sitting too deep. I have a ~10ft drop with a fairly flat landing I regularly ride and I’m not quite bottoming out on it so I’m happy with that. I’ve tried higher main chamber spring rates but find things start to get harsh. Might add a little bit more air to the IRT when bike park season comes again but I had no issues riding things like Dirt Merchant in Whistler last summer.


I don't think parking lot feel should be an indicator with air suspension anyway. Air heats up and gets stiffer. Which is actually nice if going slow its soft but stiffens a little going fast.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Cerberus75 said:


> I don't think parking lot feel should be an indicator with air suspension anyway. Air heats up and gets stiffer. Which is actually nice if going slow its soft but stiffens a little going fast.


I agree, but was just providing some info that compares to my previous forks (38, Zeb, lyrik) and how they felt comparatively. The Mezzer feels softer in the parking lot but more supportive than any of those forks when you actually start riding.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

@Nurse Ben if you're using 35/70 you only need maybe 1 or 2 clicks of rebound on the stock shim stack maybe open going fast. I'm mentioning this because I'm normally in the middle of most forks.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Guys, guys, I'm quite a good mechanic, so I don't need advice on bike set up, years and years and years of wrenching, the only thing I don't do is build my own frames.

So, the fork sits low in the travel, like 40+ % sag, waaay lower than on any fork I've ridden. I am using the travel more consistently, it rides abut the same, I'm just sitting lower in the travel.

To be honest, I experienced this issue with my first Mezzer.

I've played with LSC, HSC, and R ad nauseum, all combos of pressures/ratios, I just wish the fork rode better; ie more like my Mara Pro on the back end.

What's interesting is I have two Mattocs, a 29" 140mm and a 27.5 160mm, the 27.5 fork rides incredible, the 29" fork rode like crap (sold it recently).

I guess I'm just not happy with how the Mezzer rides


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Guys, guys, I'm quite a good mechanic, so I don't need advice on bike set up, years and years and years of wrenching, the only thing I don't do is build my own frames.
> 
> So, the fork sits low in the travel, like 40+ % sag, waaay lower than on any fork I've ridden. I am using the travel more consistently, it rides abut the same, I'm just sitting lower in the travel.
> 
> ...


40% seems crazy. What riding position are you measuring that in?

Your 29" Mattoc would have extra compression damping shims over the 27" fork. They can be taken out to give the same performance.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Guys, guys, I'm quite a good mechanic, so I don't need advice on bike set up, years and years and years of wrenching, the only thing I don't do is build my own frames.
> 
> So, the fork sits low in the travel, like 40+ % sag, waaay lower than on any fork I've ridden. I am using the travel more consistently, it rides abut the same, I'm just sitting lower in the travel.
> 
> ...


I'm going to buck the recommendations here and say don't be scared to try way more pressure, if you're riding hard in rough terrain then you'll need it.

For context, I'm 165lb, 180mm travel, and am running 52 - 78 IRT (my pump does not read high, reads the same on both of my pumps) w/ LSC 2 out from closed, and HSC 2 clicks out from open (I'm actually contemplating trying a stiffer compression shim stack eventually, would like to be able to run HSC closer to 0 or 1). 

I'm running more spring and compression than you and I weight ~20lb less. My setup at times feels soft, and for me to run less than 3 on HSC I'd need more pressure in main. I'm able to bottom out the fork. I ride aggressively in some pretty nasty terrain so it's not the right setup for everyone but TLDR go stiffer, especially on main pressure and see how you like it. I get more support from this fork than any of the other top of the line Fox or RS stuff, it's not even close, so I'd be surprised if you don't find a supportive setup you like.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

croakies said:


> I'm going to buck the recommendations here and say don't be scared to try way more pressure, if you're riding hard in rough terrain then you'll need it.
> 
> For context, I'm 165lb, 180mm travel, and am running 52 - 78 IRT (my pump does not read high, reads the same on both of my pumps) w/ LSC 2 out from closed, and HSC 2 clicks out from open (I'm actually contemplating trying a stiffer compression shim stack eventually, would like to be able to run HSC closer to 0 or 1).
> 
> I'm running more spring and compression than you and I weight ~20lb less. My setup at times feels soft, and for me to run less than 3 on HSC I'd need more pressure in main. I'm able to bottom out the fork. I ride aggressively in some pretty nasty terrain so it's not the right setup for everyone but TLDR go stiffer, especially on main pressure and see how you like it. I get more support from this fork than any of the other top of the line Fox or RS stuff, it's not even close, so I'd be surprised if you don't find a supportive setup you like.


If he was on a bike with a really progressive LR you'd be right. Too Stiff of a fork will cause the bike to tuck under the fork making it more harsh. I do agree that he needs more pressure in the main. And not worry about ratios probably 45/65 and work up from there if he's sagging at 40% the bike he's on is best at 30-33% in the rear and linear to progressive.


----------



## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Cerberus75 said:


> If he was on a bike with a really progressive LR you'd be right. Too Stiff of a fork will cause the bike to tuck under the fork making it more harsh. I do agree that he needs more pressure in the main. And not worry about ratios probably 45/65 and work up from there if he's sagging at 40% the bike he's on is best at 30-33% in the rear and linear to progressive.


Ymmv but I typically tune front first and get rear to match instead of vice versa. So if rear of bike is tucking when fork is properly supporting you, stiffen the rear. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Back all the damping off, set the spring-rates so the bike rides level and responds evenly. Then bring in rebound and compression damping.

It's really easy to get lost setting multiple things at once.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm 120lbs "heavy" and run 35, don't think it's the right pressure for you, but if 50 was too much, why not try 45 for example? Remember, the issue were trying to address is not full travel usage.
I use mine plenty often enough @35/65, also 170mm travel, 64.5° HA bike, softened comp stack but was actually thinking of stiffening it back up recently, just to see 😅


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Don't be afraid of large jumps in pressure with the IRT. I'm running a setting that on paper looks psycho stiff but rides pretty normal. If anything it's still too soft in the mid stroke.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Correcting my statement above, explains why I felt the fork was much softer after service and had to raise IRT for the same end stroke support... Looked at the gauge wrong and ran 25 psi in the main chamber 🤷


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

piciu256 said:


> I'm 120lbs "heavy" and run 35, don't think it's the right pressure for you, but if 50 was too much, why not try 45 for example? Remember, the issue were trying to address is not full travel usage.
> I use mine plenty often enough @35/65, also 170mm travel, 64.5° HA bike, softened comp stack but was actually thinking of stiffening it back up recently, just to see 😅


I softened up my wife's compression and she wants it back for steep chunky stuff.The fork is pretty versatile if you are willing to turn the knobs.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Went ahead and redid the parking lot setup and landed @35/50 for now, will fiddle a bit when I get some proper terrain to do laps, explains why I had to open the rebound all the way out to prevent from packing on braking bumps, was super plush on roots though, and felt supportive still 😅


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dropped to 70/35, sits really low in the travel, but I’m getting full travel 👍
> 
> Not sure I like it, but I’ll do some more tweaking


Lesben hsc 3 from closed,so that IT has s Tony Bit of preload.not more.
Close LSC successively untill IT'S closed.

If you do Not Reach Desired behavior Go Up to 37.
Then Use LSC again and the next pressure would be 39.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Played with the pressure a bit on a rooty, relatively fast piece of trail, 35 was the baseline, felt really good, second run did @30, when before I barely felt anything, the roots were now noticeable at the handlebars, next run @35 to confirm, they disappear again, so once again discovered less pressure doesn't necessarily give better compliance. Didn't try more pressure as the sag is already at around 20%, don't like the idea of running much less. IRT stays at 50psi for now, seems to provide enough support for relatively easy natural trails, will see once I ride some proper gnar in the weekend, will play with the idea of opening the LSC a little too, but for now I'd say it'll be reserved for park days.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm liking it better with 70/35, HSC open, LSC 1-2 from open, R 3-4 from open.

I'm still sitting low in the travel, but I'm getting more travel, no bottom outs.

I might bump the IRT a touch, just too see what it does.

I'd like it to be a touch more poppy ... but I don't want to sacrifice comfort.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Played with the pressure a bit on a rooty, relatively fast piece of trail, 35 was the baseline, felt really good, second run did @30, when before I barely felt anything, the roots were now noticeable at the handlebars, next run @35 to confirm, they disappear again, so once again discovered less pressure doesn't necessarily give better compliance. Didn't try more pressure as the sag is already at around 20%, don't like the idea of running much less. IRT stays at 50psi for now, seems to provide enough support for relatively easy natural trails, will see once I ride some proper gnar in the weekend, will play with the idea of opening the LSC a little too, but for now I'd say it'll be reserved for park days.


I had the same issue. The fork was originally harsh for me in about 20% of the stuff I ride- essentially the roughest parts of the trail. Played with a whole bunch of different pressure settings and I still could not tune out the spikes. The faster and the rougher the trail, the worse it becomes. 

Finally attempted a reshim with plenty of advise from Ozibis and reference material from this thread and the other one and soooo glad I did it. For welterweights like me (165lbs kitted), the reshim “rounded” out square edges and tone down the spikes enough that my hands are not fatigued anymore from the weird high frequency vibrations from before. Kept my original settings so I had an apples to apples comparison but since then, beginning to experiment with lower IRT as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just to be clear, I didn't have an issue, just getting my fork setup from scratch, since screwed up the hurried previous setup. I have the damper reshimmed by removing one of the shims, plenty smooth enough for me at ~125lbs kitted up, wouldn't want it any softer for sure, I want the big hit support damping provides, need it for the stupid **** I attempt sometimes 🤷


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Tried more IRT pressure today, 50 starting point, felt pretty good, went to 55, felt a little better on jumps, more support for pumping, but when I tried a rock garden, was tossed around quite a bit more than on the softer setting, so not worth the tradeoff for me, will maybe consider for park days.
Opened LSC up 3 clicks also, because why not, don't really feel a difference either way here, not enough fast chattery runs to repeat.
+2 for rebound also felt a little slow, or rather unbalanced with the rear, gonna stay at one click, in general seems that I have the fork pretty much dialed in 
Was easier than expected really, just need to really pay attention for once and do one thing at a time.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Tried more IRT pressure today, 50 starting point, felt pretty good, went to 55, felt a little better on jumps, more support for pumping, but when I tried a rock garden, was tossed around quite a bit more than on the softer setting, so not worth the tradeoff for me, will maybe consider for park days.
> Opened LSC up 3 clicks also, because why not, don't really feel a difference either way here, not enough fast chattery runs to repeat.
> +2 for rebound also felt a little slow, or rather unbalanced with the rear, gonna stay at one click, in general seems that I have the fork pretty much dialed in
> Was easier than expected really, just need to really pay attention for once and do one thing at a time.


To get more Support without harshness it is Just necessary to make a customized shimstack.that really pushes the ability of this fork noticeable.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I don't feel a lack support, but more spring rate is nice for preloading jumps, just that with the higher spring rate deeper in the stroke, I get thrown around a little, when with the slightly softer setup it just floats over stuff. Keep in mind I'm talking a big rock rock garden here, so around 20kph (no run-up here, otherwise you could pretty much gap the whole thing 😅) over repeated square edged hits spaced around 0,5m apart, each using about 3/4 of the travel avaible.
I believe the current damper tune is perfect for me, no harshness, while giving plenty of resistance at high shaft speeds (I can feel it when landing flat for example)
I do definitely agree thatany people would greatly benefit from a custom tune, aspecially lighter riders like me.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm liking it better with 70/35, HSC open, LSC 1-2 from open, R 3-4 from open.
> I'm still sitting low in the travel, but I'm getting more travel, no bottom outs.
> I might bump the IRT a touch, just too see what it does.
> I'd like it to be a touch more poppy, but I don't want to sacrifice comfort.


My Mezzer was like that until I performed an airspring service. Now it's something like 140mm @ 48/75. Which is much more normal for my weight of 190lbs. For this fork at my weight I like running more LSC, it seems to help the fork feel "better". it's ability to soak up square hits is great. Puts my grip2 F34 to shame.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

cassieno said:


> My Mezzer was like that until I performed an airspring service. Now it's something like 140mm @ 48/75. Which is much more normal for my weight of 190lbs. For this fork at my weight I like running more LSC, it seems to help the fork feel "better". it's ability to soak up square hits is great. Puts my grip2 F34 to shame.


Already did that, no change.


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

Hey Mezzer experts. I had a shop perform the damper service. 1) I don't feel capable and 2) I don't have all the required tools/space to do it myself. Anyways, I reassemble everything and go to set my previous pressures, rebound, HSC and LSC settings. Rebound has the 10 positive clicks, set that to my preferance. I noticed that HSC felt "loose", but had 4 definite clicks. However, LSC got tight quick and only had 7 clicks that I could count. I did ask the shop to update the shim stack per the "Dougal Tune" on page 1 of the Owners thread.

My question is: should I just disassemble and re-assemble the damper HSC/LSC knobs. Or is/was there a reassembly problem with the damper to cause me to only have 7 clicks of LSC?


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Try taking the knobs off to see if each turned separately still binds, if so, then it's something worth on the inside.
Btw. my hsc knob gets a little crunchy if I wind the LSC adjuster all the way out, not sure what, if anything, to do about that.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Doubleclutch said:


> Hey Mezzer experts. I had a shop perform the damper service. 1) I don't feel capable and 2) I don't have all the required tools/space to do it myself. Anyways, I reassemble everything and go to set my previous pressures, rebound, HSC and LSC settings. Rebound has the 10 positive clicks, set that to my preferance. I noticed that HSC felt "loose", but had 4 definite clicks. However, LSC got tight quick and only had 7 clicks that I could count. I did ask the shop to update the shim stack per the "Dougal Tune" on page 1 of the Owners thread.
> 
> My question is: should I just disassemble and re-assemble the damper HSC/LSC knobs. Or is/was there a reassembly problem with the damper to cause me to only have 7 clicks of LSC?


The LSC mechanism is internal to the upper part of the damper and shouldn't change with a reshim. I don't know what they've done.

But while I'm here. I tuned and car-park rode a Mezzer today on a Forbidden Druid. Size Medium. About 20% firmer tune than I run with 50/100psi and it felt great simply because the bike is shorter and the fork is more heavily loaded.


----------



## Doubleclutch (Aug 25, 2017)

Thanks piciu256, just a quick disassemble, hit with IPA (isopropyl alcohol for the turny bits and India Pale Ale for my mouth), re-lube and re-assemble ... works like a charm. Must not have been assembled correctly.


----------



## GH28 (Jun 16, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The LSC mechanism is internal to the upper part of the damper and shouldn't change with a reshim. I don't know what they've done.
> 
> But while I'm here. I tuned and car-park rode a Mezzer today on a Forbidden Druid. Size Medium. About 20% firmer tune than I run with 50/100psi and it felt great simply because the bike is shorter and the fork is more heavily loaded.


On my YZF I end up wanting a quite aggressive midvalve setting once I change the rear sprocket size that lengthens the swingarm by about 1/4". All else being equal. Usually the shock spring rate can afford to go up half a rate too because of the lever increase.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Might be joining the Mezzer crew! 

Mine will be a 2020 model. Is that the one with the slightly stiffer compression stack? If so. Great. I'm a bigger guy.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PHeller said:


> Might be joining the Mezzer crew!
> 
> Mine will be a 2020 model. Is that the one with the slightly stiffer compression stack? If so. Great. I'm a bigger guy.


Compression stacks are all the same. 20,17.5,17.5,11mm.


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Compression stacks are all the same. 20,17.5,17.5,11mm.


Yea I stumbled upon the discussion of how the compression didn't change. Good to know. I'll need it!


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

FYI Chainreaction has Mezzer Pro's on sale. $695 w/ free shipping to US or £570 in the UK. 








Manitou Mezzer Pro Boost Mountain Bike Fork | Chain Reaction
 

Manitou Mezzer Pro Boost Mountain Bike Fork - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles



www.chainreactioncycles.com


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

hugelick said:


> FYI Chainreaction has Mezzer Pro's on sale. $695 w/ free shipping to US or £570 in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are these the latest version with the bleed screws?


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

Dunno, but I'd guess so. The bleed screw version has been out for quite a while now. I ordered one, so I guess I'll have an answer in a week or so.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

hugelick said:


> Dunno, but I'd guess so. The bleed screw version has been out for quite a while now. I ordered one, so I guess I'll have an answer in a week or so.


I was going to buy one from Germany a few months ago but when I inquired it was the non bleed version.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

besides the bleed ports is there an issue with the older lowers?


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

hugelick said:


> besides the bleed ports is there an issue with the older lowers?


Bushings and creaking crown.


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

JK-47 said:


> Bushings and creaking crown.


Thanks. Good to know.
My current Mezzer has bleedports and the crown creaked. Mantiou was great with the warranty...once they got the CSU's in stock.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

hugelick said:


> Thanks. Good to know.
> My current Mezzer has bleedports and the crown creaked. Mantiou was great with the warranty...once they got the CSU's in stock.


Has your warranty CSU remained creak-free?

My second warranty replacement CSU lasted only two weeks before it began creaking/ticking. Manitou has been great to work with on replacement CSUs, but what a disappointment in an otherwise spectacular fork.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

@Dougal have you started fixing Mezzer CSU’s yet? I have a creaky one if you want to start?


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Has anybody here converted a Mezzer Expert to a Pro before? I already replaced the IVA to an IRT, and will be replacing the VTT with the MC2 damper.

I already purchased the MC2 Damper (141-36713-K022) but had a few questions.

The EXPERT looks like it has a Bumper / Bottom Out (Orange Arrow) which doesn't exist on the PRO (due to HBO). *Can that be removed easily?* Additionally, the RED arrow (Damper Assembly, Rebound on the Expert), can the end cap be removed easily? I'm assuming it needs to be re-used when installing the MC2 damper (as the MC2 damper package doesn't come with it). *Is it the same end damper cap as what's on the PRO*? Parts diagram doesn't seem to have a number associated with it.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> @Dougal have you started fixing Mezzer CSU’s yet? I have a creaky one if you want to start?


No problem at all. The only one I've done the "silent treatment" is our new demo fork. It was the first Mezzer I sold back in 2019. Traded it back in last month and one stanchion clicked.

I did the tooling to swap out damaged stanchions.



funks said:


> Has anybody here converted a Mezzer Expert to a Pro before? I already replaced the IVA to an IRT, and will be replacing the VTT with the MC2 damper.
> 
> I already purchased the MC2 Damper (141-36713-K022) but had a few questions.
> 
> ...


Correct that Pro cap isn't available. I have made my own and have some available.


----------



## TanMan (Aug 31, 2014)

Man, seems like a really great price from CR until I read the 3 star reviews. Mainly from quality issues relating to earlier models. Guess CR is trying clear old stock. 

Great price though if you are willing to spend a bit of time and work with CR or Manitou to get lowers updated. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

nmxtrdr said:


> Has your warranty CSU remained creak-free?
> 
> My second warranty replacement CSU lasted only two weeks before it began creaking/ticking. Manitou has been great to work with on replacement CSUs, but what a disappointment in an otherwise spectacular fork.


No creaking yet, but I only have 20hrs on the new one.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JK-47 said:


> Bushings and creaking crown.


The Bushings were sorted with replacement lowers before the end of 2019. The change to bleed screws came later and is unrelated. It is now halfway through 2022.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Dougal said:


> The Bushings were sorted with replacement lowers before the end of 2019. The change to bleed screws came later and is unrelated. It is now halfway through 2022.


Still may have old stock they are trying to dump.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

JK-47 said:


> Still may have old stock they are trying to dump.


Worst case scenario (which is super unlikely) you get old stock and Manitou replace it under warranty and you end up with a ripper fork for half price.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

springs said:


> Worst case scenario (which is super unlikely) you get old stock and Manitou replace it under warranty and you end up with a ripper fork for half price.


Time is money, and if you want to waste it playing the warranty game, go right ahead.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

JK-47 said:


> Time is money, and if you want to waste it playing the warranty game, go right ahead.



lol lets not over-complicate riding a bicycle mate. If you have no other forks and you bought the Mezzer then needed to warranty them then yeah I guess there is downtime. I was assuming you have forks already so if you did buy the Mezzer and there was an issue (less chance than the other bigger players ime) you would have a back up set.

Now....back to making money.This forum thing is costing me $$


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

springs said:


> lol lets not over-complicate riding a bicycle mate. If you have no other forks and you bought the Mezzer then needed to warranty them then yeah I guess there is downtime. I was assuming you have forks already so if you did buy the Mezzer and there was an issue (less chance than the other bigger players ime) you would have a back up set.
> 
> Now....back to making money.This forum thing is costing me $$


Uhhhh yeah


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Just as a note for people wanting to upgrade from the VTT-6P -> MC2. Dougal responded earlier stating that damper end cap doesn't have a part number (and it doesn't come with the MC2 damper kit either) but it's needed for the conversion. 

Dougal stated he made his own version and can sell them. I contacted Manitou US tech support and they said even though that part doesn't have a number (probably be a good idea for them to sell it though, given VTT-6P -> MC2 upgradability is being promoted), they have a couple in house and will send me one.

Additionally, they stated that both the EXPERT and the PRO has the BOTTOM OUT BUMPER (*141-36713-K036*) but for some reason, *it's not displayed in the PRO exploded view diagram (but is displayed on the EXPERT exploded view diagram).








*


----------



## hugelick (Feb 20, 2008)

the Mezzer from CRC arrived today.
it’s not old stock.
DOM 1/20/22
It has bleed screws and updated decals compared to my late 2020 mezzer.
More black and less silver.
looks awesome!


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

You guys with recent manu dates... are the steerer tubes completely seated/recessed into the crown or is there a flange sitting proud?


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Looks completely seated to me. Here’s a pic of mine that I got today from CRC - 2022 date of manufacture.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

As a comparison, here’s my existing Mezzer Pro with a 2020 date of manufacture.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

EatsDirt said:


> You guys with recent manu dates... are the steerer tubes completely seated/recessed into the crown or is there a flange sitting proud?


The steerer flange is not perfectly flush with the bottom of the crown, but very close, enough that it seems fully seated but then I don't know how deep the recess is.

And it's enough deeper to be noticeable compared to the one in my original 2019 Mezzer, which has so far remained creak free. But I run it at 140 so it leads an easier life than most.

Edit- my forks are pretty much the same as Moosedriver's.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Moosedriver said:


> Looks completely seated to me. Here’s a pic of mine that I got today from CRC - 2022 date of manufacture.
> View attachment 1985338


Lookin good… and thanks heaps for the replies!


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

This fork is garbage. My travel indicator o-ring is about to fall off. Do not recommend. /S

Fork has been solid over the last year. Was a little frustrating to set-up (I had to set up based on feel and ignore all set-up charts). But, once that was done I have been very happy with it. Not sure how long this would have taken me on my own. Luckily I ride with someone who is very familiar with suspension set-up and was able to advise me. 

Travel change is easy with the spacers.

My o-ring is rotting and about to fall off though. Which is a new experience for me. My RS / Fox o-rings have always been fine for years.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

cassieno said:


> My o-ring is rotting and about to fall off though. Which is a new experience for me. My RS / Fox o-rings have always been fine for years.


same with mine - mattoc O-ring still fine though.


----------



## TallPaul_S (May 27, 2020)

Yeah mine started splitting and fell off ages ago too. I'll replace it when I next do a service or travel change. I just use the dust/mud as a travel indicator for the moment!


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

cassieno said:


> My o-ring is rotting and about to fall off though.


Mine did the same. Replaced it with one of these.
I bought the 36mm... close enough. And red! 
=sParty


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

I just got back my Mezzer Pro back from warranty so I'm going to sell it since I'm running an Avalanche Hybrid Coil 38 now. Fork has new lowers, new uncut CSU and new damper but they kept my Dougal valving so 12mm compression shim and a little faster rebound since I'm 160lbs. They pretty much replaced everything so basically a new fork and can throw the other set of lowers (burnished) for spare, would like to get $800 for everything, depending on price I could burnish the new lowers, set travel and new 214 seal with spares and Supergliss bath oil so fork shouldn't need anything.


----------



## evan9r (Oct 21, 2012)

The Manitou Pro is on sale on Hayes for $879 this weekend only.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

What was the Type of "tuning" o-ring For the mezzer 's Air Pistons to reduce friction, Not the Standard ones?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I just got back my Mezzer Pro back from warranty so I'm going to sell it since I'm running an Avalanche Hybrid Coil 38 now. Fork has new lowers, new uncut CSU and new damper but they kept my Dougal valving so 12mm compression shim and a little faster rebound since I'm 160lbs. They pretty much replaced everything so basically a new fork and can throw the other set of lowers (burnished) for spare, would like to get $800 for everything, depending on price I could burnish the new lowers, set travel and new 214 seal with spares and Supergliss bath oil so fork shouldn't need anything.



What does the Avy hybrid Coil do better than the mezzer?


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

bansaiman said:


> What was the Type of "tuning" o-ring For the mezzer 's Air Pistons to reduce friction, Not the Standard ones?


Swap the air spring's quad ring to a smaller 214 size.

E.g. this one https://maydayseals.co.uk/quad-rings-/2873-q-214-nitrile-quad-ring.html


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Two_bricks said:


> Swap the air spring's quad ring to a smaller 214 size.
> 
> E.g. this one https://maydayseals.co.uk/quad-rings-/2873-q-214-nitrile-quad-ring.html


Thank You very much.
But why Not an o Ring,would this Not mean even less friction because of one contact Ares?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

bansaiman said:


> What does the Avy hybrid Coil do better than the mezzer?


For one it balances out my suspension since my coil shocks are Avalanche tuned, also as good as the Mezzer is the hybrid coil has better small bump/sensitivity than air fork. I've been running Avalanche did for 10 plus years since my DH days so I'm just used to his tuning and ride so I like to keep it consistent. I got the Mezzer to try it while I was waiting for the Fox 38 and it's a phenomenal fork.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> For one it balances out my suspension since my coil shocks are Avalanche tuned, also as good as the Mezzer is the hybrid coil has better small bump/sensitivity than air fork. I've been running Avalanche did for 10 plus years since my DH days so I'm just used to his tuning and ride so I like to keep it consistent. I got the Mezzer to try it while I was waiting for the Fox 38 and it's a phenomenal fork.


Is the hybrid coil much better than an Avy cartridge and coil?


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Cerberus75 said:


> Is the hybrid coil much better than an Avy cartridge and coil?


I haven't been able to get good riding with it yet since it's on my Enduro that's pretty much a park bike at this point but it should be lighter since the coil is half the rate as normal cause you are splitting the spring rate between the coil and air side, also I like the idea behind having both legs sharing the spring rate to minimize binding bit I can give you a better summary after I go to the park in a few weeks once I'm done moving. 
I had a Yari with his damper and a Smashpot and was the best fork I've had so far so excited to try the hybrid coil.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> For one it balances out my suspension since my coil shocks are Avalanche tuned, also as good as the Mezzer is the hybrid coil has better small bump/sensitivity than air fork. I've been running Avalanche did for 10 plus years since my DH days so I'm just used to his tuning and ride so I like to keep it consistent. I got the Mezzer to try it while I was waiting for the Fox 38 and it's a phenomenal fork.


If one could manage to get a Coil fitted to the mezzer cartridge With a Machined or 3d printed Adapter it would certainly be as Great as Well.
Or. Just Coil the mezzer


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

bansaiman said:


> Thank You very much.
> But why Not an o Ring,would this Not mean even less friction because of one contact Ares?


I haven't tried a regular o-ring, but quad rings are supposedly better in dynamic applications.









Advantages of a Quad-Ring Over an O-Ring


The Quad-Ring; a 100% retrofit option for any O-Ring application, can and will outperform an O-ring in many technical areas.




www.gallagherseals.com


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> I haven't been able to get good riding with it yet since it's on my Enduro that's pretty much a park bike at this point but it should be lighter since the coil is half the rate as normal cause you are splitting the spring rate between the coil and air side, also I like the idea behind having both legs sharing the spring rate to minimize binding bit I can give you a better summary after I go to the park in a few weeks once I'm done moving.
> I had a Yari with his damper and a Smashpot and was the best fork I've had so far so excited to try the hybrid coil.


I have a yari with Avy/Push at 150mm on my smaller bike. It's a dream with a woddie shock. My new bike is EXT Storia and Mezzer. I definitely saved some weight, but chasing that Avy feel lol.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Cerberus75 said:


> I have a yari with Avy/Push at 150mm on my smaller bike. It's a dream with a woddie shock. My new bike is EXT Storia and Mezzer. I definitely saved some weight, but chasing that Avy feel lol.


Callibrate the bushings, smaller x Ring For the Air Piston,custom shim With thinner oil,will Help a LOT


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> Callibrate the bushings, smaller x Ring For the Air Piston,custom shim With thinner oil,will Help a LOT


I'm about to burnish the bushings and switch one of the 17mm shims to a 14mm. 12mm wasn't supportive enough 17mm seems to choke a littleon rapid hits. I have the 214mm air spring ring already.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm about to burnish the bushings and switch one of the 17mm shims to a 14mm. 12mm wasn't supportive enough 17mm seems to choke a littleon rapid hits. I have the 214mm air spring ring already.


And one could try,If a spring fits Beneath the damping cartridges compression Part With Bladder when mashining an Adaptor to Go "Avy hybrid" as well


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Cerberus75 said:


> I have a yari with Avy/Push at 150mm on my smaller bike. It's a dream with a woddie shock. My new bike is EXT Storia and Mezzer. I definitely saved some weight, but chasing that Avy feel lol.


And that was my issue also, best off the shelf suspension I've had was a Mezzer fork with a Mara Pro shock but as good as it was our just wasn't the Avalanche feel I was looking for, I could get like 90% of the way there but I wanted that extra 10%.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> And that was my issue also, best off the shelf suspension I've had was a Mezzer fork with a Mara Pro shock but as good as it was our just wasn't the Avalanche feel I was looking for, I could get like 90% of the way there but I wanted that extra 10%.


In the end I will probably put Manitou on the shorter travel bike. As it is a poppier suspension and Avy the longer travel bike.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

Cerberus75 said:


> In the end I will probably put Manitou on the shorter travel bike. As it is a poppier suspension and Avy the longer travel bike.


Yup, my Enduro S-Works is running the Avy 38 and Bomber CR, short travel is getting an Avalanche Float X since a Mara Pro won't fit and I'm probably going to try a Vorsprung Fractive Fit4 Fox 34 or a Dougal tuned Grip2 since they haven't come out with a new Mattoc yet


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Refrring to the Mezzer Pro cartridge:

Can someone please Tell me the outer Diameter of the Silber Ring,the black Ring and the distance from the black screw's thicker inner Part to the Silber Ring when the cartridge is FULLY EXTENDED?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)




----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

bansaiman said:


> Refrring to the Mezzer Pro cartridge:
> 
> Can someone please Tell me the outer Diameter of the Silber Ring,the black Ring and the distance from the black screw's thicker inner Part to the Silber Ring when fully extended?





Cerberus75 said:


> I have a yari with Avy/Push at 150mm on my smaller bike. It's a dream with a woddie shock. My new bike is EXT Storia and Mezzer. I definitely saved some weight, but chasing that Avy feel lol.


I am Sure there is enough room referring to the length of the Tuner Part of the cartridge If there is a spring that inner and outer. Diameter do fit the Stanchions and cartridge's Diameter to Copy the HYBRID AVY SETUP.

But I Need the measurements


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Imo you'd have to modify the seal head, as in make it smaller, or at least round(the black collar), cannot provide any measurements, but the wrench needed to remove it was 23 or something like that, also looking at the exploded view there doesn't seem to be much space in there.
I don't think you'd have any issues with length. I like this idea, though I wouldn't be able to utilize it anyway, since I'm already running 35psi, even less and the accuracy needed would be pretty ridiculous I'd think.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

piciu256 said:


> Imo you'd have to modify the seal head, as in make it smaller, or at least round(the black collar), cannot provide any measurements, but the wrench needed to remove it was 23 or something like that, also looking at the exploded view there doesn't seem to be much space in there.
> I don't think you'd have any issues with length. I like this idea, though I wouldn't be able to utilize it anyway, since I'm already running 35psi, even less and the accuracy needed would be pretty ridiculous I'd think.



I know,but when I get my nee mezzer,the Seal head will be Machined down a while Lot anyway because it keeps the oil trapped in the stanchions.

One could Always choose to Not Take the Maximum Coil strength (there are many available in eBay from 0.5-4mm Wire strength) but when that Takes Like 40-70% of the Rider weight,which would already make the weight being distributed between both stanchions good enough, make IT possible to drop the Air pressure a Lot and thereby reduce friction and give some Support in the middle Part.perhaps it would even be possible to drop the IRT as the Air Chambers itself gives the Coil Some Progression. Less moving parts,less seals,less wear,less influence from Change of ambient PRESSURE and Temperature,more sensitivity and support


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Actually, as far as I understand, more reliance on external temperatures, as much lower pressure, so small pressure differences give a larger perceived difference, also, there isn't any less moving parts nor seals, it's literally adding a spring, so technically one more moving part, but the theory of reducing friction by the means of reducing the twisting moment induced by one sided spring does make sense.
If you really end up doing it, post up some pictures for all to see, I'm curious, even though I'd have no use for it (running 35 psi with only one spring, would have to drop to like 15? Not many pumps even go that low, nevermind any accuracy)


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Blkdoutindustries said:


> And that was my issue also, best off the shelf suspension I've had was a Mezzer fork with a Mara Pro shock but as good as it was our just wasn't the Avalanche feel I was looking for, I could get like 90% of the way there but I wanted that extra 10%.


In the end I will probably put Manitou on the shorter travel bike. As it is a poppier suspension and Avy the longer travel bike.


bansaiman said:


> I am Sure there is enough room referring to the length of the Tuner Part of the cartridge If there is a spring that inner and outer. Diameter do fit the Stanchions and cartridge's Diameter to Copy the HYBRID AVY SETUP.
> 
> But I Need the measurements


Honestly I think that is a lot of work when the magic of Avalanche is the damper. The Mezzer is a great fork for an off the shelf product.


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

First ride and I'm impressed! Compared to the 21 Fox 36, stiffer overall which was great, definitely rides higher in the travel, feels bottomless/smooth at the end and is quiet. However, after I noticed oil leaking from the damper top cap. Anyone dealt with a faulty damper before?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Kootenay rider said:


> First ride and I'm impressed! Compared to the 21 Fox 36, stiffer overall which was great, definitely rides higher in the travel, feels bottomless/smooth at the end and is quiet. However, after I noticed oil leaking from the damper top cap. Anyone dealt with a faulty damper before?


Is the bleed screw not tight?


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

springs said:


> Is the bleed screw not tight?


Do you mean the screw in the pic that's off center? I checked it and it was tight. It looks like oil is coming through the center shaft (red arrow). I cleaned all the oil off, went for a ride and the oil was pooling under the high speed compression knob. Haven't pulled out the damper cartridge yet (manual shows bleed screw is on the side), was gonna wait to see about warranty.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

springs said:


> Is the bleed screw not tight?


that is not the bleed screw, it's just a grub screw holding the spring for the blow off valve for the damper.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

I’m struggling with getting full travel on the Mezzer. I have about 2-3cm left, even when riding bikepark laps all day. The fork feels fine, but I am still wondering if it’s properly set up. I’m currently weighing approx. 90kg/198lbs and running 45 psi main and 90 psi in the IRT on a 160mm fork. My bike is pretty slack with a 64,5 degree HTA. No clicks of HSC and 3-4 clicks LSC from fully open. Any suggestions?


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

piciu256 said:


> that is not the bleed screw, it's just a grub screw holding the spring for the blow off valve for the damper.


Thanks. I pulled the damper and checked the bleed screws, all tight. Nothing looks off but there is oil leaking from the center shaft in the top cap. Bummer as I‘m looking forward to riding it but looks like I’ll have to wait for warranty to get it sorted. I know this stuff happens and is pretty rare, just got lucky I guess.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Boronite said:


> I’m struggling with getting full travel on the Mezzer. I have about 2-3cm left, even when riding bikepark laps all day. The fork feels fine, but I am still wondering if it’s properly set up. I’m currently weighing approx. 90kg/198lbs and running 45 psi main and 90 psi in the IRT on a 160mm fork. My bike is pretty slack with a 64,5 degree HTA. No clicks of HSC and 3-4 clicks LSC from fully open. Any suggestions?


Run a closer ratio from IRT to main. I’d drop irt pressure to start. If that doesn’t have enough support then slowly move main up.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Boronite said:


> I’m struggling with getting full travel on the Mezzer. I have about 2-3cm left, even when riding bikepark laps all day. The fork feels fine, but I am still wondering if it’s properly set up. I’m currently weighing approx. 90kg/198lbs and running 45 psi main and 90 psi in the IRT on a 160mm fork. My bike is pretty slack with a 64,5 degree HTA. No clicks of HSC and 3-4 clicks LSC from fully open. Any suggestions?


Ride faster?

Otherwise drop 10psi out of IRT and see how much that helps.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Dougal said:


> Ride faster?
> 
> Otherwise drop 10psi out of IRT and see how much that helps.


I hope this question doesn't sound pedantic but in any case my curiosity is genuine.
I understand with the Mezzer we're supposed to fill the IRT first, then the main.
So if you want to drop 10psi out of the IRT while leaving the main psi unchanged, would you need to first release all air from both chambers, then fill the IRT to 10psi less than you had in it before, then fill the main chamber to the same psi it had in the first place?
Pretty sure the answer to this question is 'yes' but I just got a second Mezzer (and moved M#1 to another bike) so I'll probably be changing pressures with one fork &/or the other a bit and want to be sure I'm doing it right.
Thanks,
=sParty


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I hope this question doesn't sound pedantic but in any case my curiosity is genuine.
> I understand with the Mezzer we're supposed to fill the IRT first, then the main.
> So if you want to drop 10psi out of the IRT while leaving the main psi unchanged, would you need to first release all air from both chambers, then fill the IRT to 10psi less than you had in it before, then fill the main chamber to the same psi it had in the first place?
> Pretty sure the answer to this question is 'yes' but I just got a second Mezzer (and moved M#1 to another bike) so I'll probably be changing pressures with one fork &/or the other a bit and want to be sure I'm doing it right.
> ...


It's only a problem if the IRT pressure is below the main when you pump up the main. Otherwise it doesn't matter.


----------



## naturaltalent (May 26, 2018)

Seems like the talk of a coil mezzer keeps popping up every so often, I've been running a coil converted mezzer for 2 years now. If anyone is interested I am considering making a small batch of mezzer coil conversions for sale. Would likely be a month and a half out from now before they would be ready, if there is enough interest. Would accept push coils.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

naturaltalent said:


> Seems like the talk of a coil mezzer keeps popping up every so often, I've been running a coil converted mezzer for 2 years now. If anyone is interested I am considering making a small batch of mezzer coil conversions for sale. Would likely be a month and a half out from now before they would be ready, if there is enough interest. Would accept push coils.



Hi,

Which parts would the conversion Kit contain and how much is it?
Will the IRT be Kicked Out completely or do you Use IT Like Mars Air?

Which Push coils,the ones from Acs3 or from their yari coil conversion (sorry For the question,but I do Not know, If they differ)


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

naturaltalent said:


> Seems like the talk of a coil mezzer keeps popping up every so often, I've been running a coil converted mezzer for 2 years now. If anyone is interested I am considering making a small batch of mezzer coil conversions for sale. Would likely be a month and a half out from now before they would be ready, if there is enough interest. Would accept push coils.


So I am certainly interested in one


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

So I’m considering buying another mezzer after trying out some other suspension. I had a few issues with mine and was curious if they had been fixed with the newer productions or not. Are the CSU’s still going creaky? Mine didn’t last a month and the replacement didn’t last 2 weeks. Did they change the rebound shim stack at all?
I’m currently on a 38 and it just rings my hands up with trail chatter, I’m assuming from how stuff the fork is. So I’m considering the mezzer or even a lyrik with a secus at this point.


----------



## tempmeister (Nov 16, 2020)

naturaltalent said:


> Seems like the talk of a coil mezzer keeps popping up every so often, I've been running a coil converted mezzer for 2 years now. If anyone is interested I am considering making a small batch of mezzer coil conversions for sale. Would likely be a month and a half out from now before they would be ready, if there is enough interest. Would accept push coils.


I am interested definitely but would want a bit more info before committing please


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

Hi,
How many people run their Mezzer at 140mm ? I am tempted to replace my Pike Ultimate by a Mezzer on my Stumpjumper (non evo), but I'm afraid it would be a little bit overkill even though the weight penalty is fairly small.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What does it even mean for a fork to be overkill? 😅 You'll get much better traction and big hit capability and probably better comfort, not much heavier. That's about it, unless you worry about the burly looking stanchions- you'll get used to it in a couple of hours.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> What does it even mean for a fork to be overkill? 😅 You'll get much better traction and big hit capability and probably better comfort, not much heavier. That's about it, unless you worry about the burly looking stanchions- you'll get used to it in a couple of hours.


Thanks for the input, what I meant was does it make sense to have 37mm stanchions at 140mm and has anybody found it too stiff for trail riding on a quite light frame like the stumpy. 
I have never ridden a 38 or a Zeb myself but I've read some reviews where people said it is not necessary a good thing to have such a stiff fork compared to 36 and Lyrik depends on the riding conditions so I had these comments in mind.

Weight wise it would be like having the Pike with the Swat tool in the steerer tube so it seems very marginal indeed.


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It depends on how perceptive you are of this kinds of things, I have to say I noticed a difference in stiffness at first (switched from a Mattoc to the Mezzer) but quickly forgot about it, if I remember correctly, mostly noticed it on off camber bumps, can't say it's a deal breaker or anything like that, and in theory it makes for smoother operation on big bumps, can't say if it's that or the different damper, but the chunk eating ability is impressive indeed.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Brodybro29 said:


> Thanks for the input, what I meant was does it make sense to have 37mm stanchions at 140mm and has anybody found it too stiff for trail riding on a quite light frame like the stumpy.


Been running one at 140 on my Ripley for a couple of years. All good, no regrets. It never feels too stiff or like too much fork, it just feels right.


----------



## MegaStoke (Aug 27, 2018)

I set a buddy up with a 140mm Mezzer on his Jamis Portal(130mm trail bike) and he says it’s the best upgrade he’s ever done to a MTB.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

Thanks guys, it’s ordered


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

Brodybro29 said:


> Thanks guys, it’s ordered


I have received the beast, it looks really qualitative out of the box
I have dropped the lowers to change the travel but my cassette tool doesn't fit so I have a longer tool ordered...


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Brodybro29 said:


> I have received the beast, it looks really qualitative out of the box
> I have dropped the lowers to change the travel but my cassette tool doesn't fit so I have a longer tool ordered...


Get a spare cassette tool and slot it to fit over the shaft.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> Get a spare cassette tool and slot it to fit over the shaft.


Why bother slotting it when you can open the valve with the pump and collapse the airshaft to use a normal cassette tool.? Whilst the risk is small it also removes the possibility of slipping and scratching the shaft.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

I will see if the new one I’m gonna receive fits, it’s difficult to say from the picture and the park tool Manitou recommends is at the moment sold out where I live.
I have tried to drill my actual cassette tool which is full but it’s a super hard steel and very thick I didn’t manage to make good progress with the drill I own. I’m not well equipped enough to slot an existing tool, it doesn’t worth loosing a finger


----------



## funks (Jun 2, 2007)

Brodybro29 said:


> I will see if the new one I’m gonna receive fits, it’s difficult to say from the picture and the park tool Manitou recommends is at the moment sold out where I live.
> I have tried to drill my actual cassette tool which is full but it’s a super hard steel and very thick I didn’t manage to make good progress with the drill I own. I’m not well equipped enough to slot an existing tool, it doesn’t worth loosing a finger


I'm not sure why you are having a hard time finding a cassette tool that works, as the most common one available - the Park Tool FR 5.2 works just fine. That's what I use when I changed travel on my Mezzer forks (and I have three of them). Just gotta hookup up a shock pump to the end of the air shaft then you can push it all the way in.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> Why bother slotting it when you can open the valve with the pump and collapse the airshaft to use a normal cassette tool.? Whilst the risk is small it also removes the possibility of slipping and scratching the shaft.


You've gotta have the right brand tool to reach over on a Mezzer. On other Manitou forks (plus Mattoc) the shafts don't compress that far and you need the slotted tool.

There's no risk of scratching when you finish the slotting properly.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

funks said:


> I'm not sure why you are having a hard time finding a cassette tool that works, as the most common one available - the Park Tool FR 5.2 works just fine. That's what I use when I changed travel on my Mezzer forks (and I have three of them). Just gotta hookup up a shock pump to the end of the air shaft then you can push it all the way in.


Yeah that's the issue, I wanted to buy the Parktool FR 5.2 yesterday but it is not (quickly) available where I live, they only have the one with the pin in the middle.
And as I want to ride it this weekend and not wait for this park tool, I needed to find another cassette tool which will fit with the shaft pushed all the way in


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> You've gotta have the right brand tool to reach over on a Mezzer. On other Manitou forks (plus Mattoc) the shafts don't compress that far and you need the slotted tool.
> 
> There's no risk of scratching when you finish the slotting properly.


I must have gotten lucky with my tool in that case.

Also, no risk  just add beer and there it is!


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

Icetoolz 09C3 is compatible if anyone is looking for another tool which fits !


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

I had to look at quite a few shops to find one. They all stock the cassette tool with a pin.


----------



## jymontoya (Mar 16, 2014)

I've had my Mezzer since late 2020 on a Ripmo AF. It's been good but not great and since it's not my primary bike, I lived with it. My problem is that it has way too much rebound damping in even the fastest setting. I also find it really hard to use the last 1/3 of the travel, despite running lower than suggested IRT. I do love how it rides high in it's travel and has incredible compression damping during hard braking, but it tends to hurt my hands more than the 120mm SID fork on my Chameleon! 

I'm due for a service and while it's open I'd like to make some meaningful changes. What do I need to tell the shop to do? Sounds like a simple service isn't going to be enough to speed up the rebound and something was changed in later years? Is this a warranty issue?

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jymontoya said:


> I've had my Mezzer since late 2020 on a Ripmo AF. It's been good but not great and since it's not my primary bike, I lived with it. My problem is that it has way too much rebound damping in even the fastest setting. I also find it really hard to use the last 1/3 of the travel, despite running lower than suggested IRT. I do love how it rides high in it's travel and has incredible compression damping during hard braking, but it tends to hurt my hands more than the 120mm SID fork on my Chameleon!
> 
> I'm due for a service and while it's open I'd like to make some meaningful changes. What do I need to tell the shop to do? Sounds like a simple service isn't going to be enough to speed up the rebound and something was changed in later years? Is this a warranty issue?
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


Read the first post in the following thread (it pretty much addresses all your questions)









Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]


The original Mezzer thread got enormous and despite the huge amount of good tech, it is really spread out and hard to access. I figured that I would do my best to consolidate the tech info. Feel free to PM me any specific info and I can add it to this post. Let's do our best to keep the...




www.mtbr.com


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ripbro said:


> I had to look at quite a few shops to find one. They all stock the cassette tool with a pin.


Unior make a nice one with a pin. Pin punches right out. I can't remember the tool number though.


----------



## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

The Park one I have with a pin just has a socket cap screw you can remove to take the pin off.


----------



## jymontoya (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you. I still don't see where my rebound issue is clearly addressed. Hoping for some more feedback from first hand users here.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jymontoya said:


> Thank you. I still don't see where my rebound issue is clearly addressed. Hoping for some more feedback from first hand users here.


Under damper tuning
"MY21 forks reportedly have a lighter rebound tune"

Then a few lines down it has an arrow pointing out which shim to remove if you have a fork pre 2021 (which you sound like you have)


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm using the icetoolz cassette tool and it works perfect.


----------



## cashews (Jan 17, 2020)

jymontoya said:


> I've had my Mezzer since late 2020 on a Ripmo AF. It's been good but not great and since it's not my primary bike, I lived with it. My problem is that it has way too much rebound damping in even the fastest setting. I also find it really hard to use the last 1/3 of the travel, despite running lower than suggested IRT. I do love how it rides high in it's travel and has incredible compression damping during hard braking, but it tends to hurt my hands more than the 120mm SID fork on my Chameleon!
> 
> I'm due for a service and while it's open I'd like to make some meaningful changes. What do I need to tell the shop to do? Sounds like a simple service isn't going to be enough to speed up the rebound and something was changed in later years? Is this a warranty issue?
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


Sounds like my fork,
I put up with it for over 18 months but i recently burnished the bushings & it's made a distinct difference to the hand feel, it's certainly reduced the harshness transmitted to the hands & I'm now actually getting within 5 mm of full travel, previously my closest was 25mm on the exact same settings on the exact same tracks.
My bushings on the air side were very very tight. compression side upper was ok, lower was tight.
I had installed the 214 seal about 3 months ago & that also made a noticeable overall improvement.
you may find with the above mods the rebound will speed up due to friction reduction.
Mine is a 5/2020 manufacture & had a my21 rebound tune, 12.9.12.,
I'm on 160mm running 98 irt & 71 main @100kgs(220), hsc open, lsc+5, r+3 from open( I ride a lot in minus & low single digit degree's & like a fast rebound.)


----------



## jymontoya (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you! Now to find a local shop here in Bend, OR with this level of capabilities.


----------



## MegaStoke (Aug 27, 2018)

Does anyone in SLC have a 37mm bushing sizing tool? My Mezzer feels quite harsh shortly after a rebuild which leads me to suspect the bushings are tight.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

So i just picked up my brand new warranty replacement mezzer. I noticed something different though. The fork has the newer rebound tune which is way faster than the last one. It also has some sort of thickening of the lowers just 2-3 cm below the seals, not sure if this has to do something with stiffness, or channels inside the lower legs. Also, the stickers next to the axle are black. Overall looks kinda burlier and darker/more sinister. Im not sure about keeping it though since ive had a replacement fork that i am quite fond of as of now. I can also give you a comparison between the mezzer, dvo onyx sc and fox 38 if you are interested.


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Uchwmdr said:


> So i just picked up my brand new warranty replacement mezzer. I noticed something different though. The fork has the newer rebound tune which is way faster than the last one. It also has some sort of thickening of the lowers just 2-3 cm below the seals, not sure if this has to do something with stiffness, or channels inside the lower legs. Also, the stickers next to the axle are black. Overall looks kinda burlier and darker/more sinister. Im not sure about keeping it though since ive had a replacement fork that i am quite fond of as of now. I can also give you a comparison between the mezzer, dvo onyx sc and fox 38 if you are interested.


So they gave you a brand new fork?
Got my mezzer back from warranty last week, with a new CSU.
The first one started creaking after 4 months.

Maybe you got the old lowers before and now got the new ones?

Sure we would like to know your thoughts about those forks and how they compare to the mezzer!


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Mikel Knight said:


> So they gave you a brand new fork?
> Got my mezzer back from warranty last week, with a new CSU.
> The first one started creaking after 4 months.
> 
> ...


Yes, brand new. The original
One was broken in a massive crash. Both steerer and stanchions creaked real hard and the arch was cracked in half. It was in a heavy crash where i landed a 2 m jump on the front of the bike directly in a cut down tree, so very unusual and unnatural forces were applied to the chassis.


----------



## GravelrashMTB (7 mo ago)

Hello fellow Mezzer owners 

I am on my second set of new Mezzer Pro's, I'm still yet to ride with a set. 

The first set came with the blue adjuster on the bottom of the right leg being unremovable. Totally fused on, although it still turned fine. Anyway, fork sent back and replaced.

With this new set, the adjuster pulls off easily. But they make that distinctive slurping/gurgling noise which I know means that there is air in the damper

So, firstly, opinions. Should I send back again? Or just get on and bleed the damper? I'm quite happy with stripping, rebuilding and servicing forks, and that is part of the reason I've chosen the Mezzer. But there is a bit of me that thinks I should at least start with a correctly assembled and bled fork...

Assuming I get on with bleeding the damper, I just want to double check the spec of the "Cartridge Damper Bleed Kit 141-30694-K020" 
So I've read that this is two syringes with M5 bleed screw adaptors. Is that correct? and does anyone know if that is the same as is used by the Rockshox Reverb? or any other brakes or suspension items? I have multiple bleed syringes and adaptors, for Reverb, Lyriks, Pikes, SRAM & Avid brakes so half hoping I can use something I've already got

If I need to buy the M5 bleed adaptors, does anyone know a good place to get them in the UK?

Thanks

Steve


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

GravelrashMTB said:


> Hello fellow Mezzer owners
> 
> I am on my second set of new Mezzer Pro's, I'm still yet to ride with a set.
> 
> ...


Hi 

I would personally send the fork back to manitou to check the fork,but you can try bleed the damper by yourself.

You need m5x0,8 threaded adapters,they are used in sram/avid brakes for example.
I already had them from an universal brake bleed kit,maybe you got them too.

The threads are the same as on the lower leg bleed port screw,you can check if they fit in there before dissasembling the fork.


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

My Mezzer has started knocking a lot recently. It's happening on basically all bumps, and the faster I go the more knocking and rattling there is. I thought it was my broken fender causing it, but after removing the fender the sound remains. I think it might be happening when the fork is returning after compressing. Any ideas what to do about this?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Boronite said:


> My Mezzer has started knocking a lot recently. It's happening on basically all bumps, and the faster I go the more knocking and rattling there is. I thought it was my broken fender causing it, but after removing the fender the sound remains. I think it might be happening when the fork is returning after compressing. Any ideas what to do about this?


Check the headset


----------



## Boronite (Jan 25, 2014)

Mikel Knight said:


> Check the headset


My headset is in order, I have even tried two different headsets recently.


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

So, I've got a few rides on my Mezzer pro. My settings are mostly in between the ones from the spreadsheet and the ones in the guide from Manitou. I absolutely love this fork. Just works. But.....................I also just woke up to this email and it looks like I'll get to try the RRT version here soon!


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

shakazulu12 said:


> So, I've got a few rides on my Mezzer pro. My settings are mostly in between the ones from the spreadsheet and the ones in the guide from Manitou. I absolutely love this fork. Just works. But.....................I also just woke up to this email and it looks like I'll get to try the RRT version here soon!
> 
> View attachment 1990610


Congrats man. I would Love to Ride the rrt,too


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

shakazulu12 said:


> So, I've got a few rides on my Mezzer pro. My settings are mostly in between the ones from the spreadsheet and the ones in the guide from Manitou. I absolutely love this fork. Just works. But.....................I also just woke up to this email and it looks like I'll get to try the RRT version here soon!
> 
> View attachment 1990610


It would be interesting to see if there are any obvious internal changes that he has made. Different air spring piston etc. I know he says he doesn’t burnish the bushings and has some kind of proprietary surface treatment. I’m interested to hear a comparison once you have some time on it. Congrats on winning the fork.


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Ripbro said:


> It would be interesting to see if there are any obvious internal changes that he has made. Different air spring piston etc. I know he says he doesn’t burnish the bushings and has some kind of proprietary surface treatment. I’m interested to hear a comparison once you have some time on it. Congrats on winning the fork.



I'll see if I can pry anything from Dave, but I get the impression he's not going to give up the secret sauce. Right now, he's finishing up a vacation, but we've already started on weight, riding style, bike it's going one etc and will iron out the rest of the details shortly. Think I'm going to get a shock from him as well while I'm at it.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

shakazulu12 said:


> So, I've got a few rides on my Mezzer pro. My settings are mostly in between the ones from the spreadsheet and the ones in the guide from Manitou. I absolutely love this fork. Just works. But.....................I also just woke up to this email and it looks like I'll get to try the RRT version here soon!
> 
> View attachment 1990610


Sweet, what bike will it be on?


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

006_007 said:


> Sweet, what bike will it be on?


Transition Spire


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Dave will NEVER tell you his receipe.
I suspect that he may uses cerium oxide to polish the stanctions,already ordered some and will try by myself.
I am more interested in the compression and rebound shim stacks that he could be using.
Also the firmer wave spring for HSC,that I couldn't get anywhere so far.

Here is some very interesting info I found on this thread that hasn't been discussed.


mike156 said:


> An estimate of the HSC shim stack preload and some different springs from rotorclip. The MWL all have roughly the same rate in a given diameter. The last letter is the height, so the longer springs add preload. MWM is a stiffer spring (the stock spring is roughly MWM-14 B, (shorter and stiffer). I think the MWL-14 C is the most intersting as it has VERY LITTLE preload in actual use and in the stiffest position is about 1 click out from fully hard compared to stock.
> 
> FWIW, they do not stock the flat (shim) faced versions of these springs. However, they sent me some samples of the springs without flat faces and they look like they will work fine. It might be possible to get the flat face version as a bulk order though. The part number changes a bit depending on the material selected.
> MWL-14SQ CF - stainless, flat faced
> MWL-14ST CF - steel, flat faced


----------



## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

shakazulu12 said:


> I'll see if I can pry anything from Dave, but I get the impression he's not going to give up the secret sauce. Right now, he's finishing up a vacation, but we've already started on weight, riding style, bike it's going one etc and will iron out the rest of the details shortly. Think I'm going to get a shock from him as well while I'm at it.


Sweet! Which shock? He also offers a RRT Intend Edge, but it’s wildly expensive (like 2400€) so I passed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ripbro said:


> It would be interesting to see if there are any obvious internal changes that he has made. Different air spring piston etc. I know he says he doesn’t burnish the bushings and has some kind of proprietary surface treatment. I’m interested to hear a comparison once you have some time on it. Congrats on winning the fork.


No burnishing... Then Just Imagine how they would ein With rrt AAAAND burnishing 😬


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

johnsogr said:


> Sweet! Which shock? He also offers a RRT Intend Edge, but it’s wildly expensive (like 2400€) so I passed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Likely the Kitsuma DB Coil. I really like the idea behind the Intend fork, and gamechanger shock and would love to try them out sometime, but I think I'll be set after this.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ah man, I think Manitou didn't name this fork right. Mezzer? They should have named the Savior. I was slamming down a very steep and root-infested trail with massive pits at the bottoms of big, rooty rolls, and dropping off logs into all manner of rooty and rocky mayhem. It just took it all in stride and saved my ass more times than I can count.

Perfection? Well, for the way that I ride, I have to say yes!


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

About a month ago I posted that my Mezzer Pro from CRC was leaking oil from the damper side. Had one ride on it and really liked it, it was a little firm off the top but excellent everywhere else. I had to send the fork back to get repaired/replaced but since it took a month, they sold out and refunded my money. I would love to get it back but prices are almost double of what the CRC sale price was. Anyone know of good deals out there right now?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Kootenay rider said:


> About a month ago I posted that my Mezzer Pro from CRC was leaking oil from the damper side. Had one ride on it and really liked it, it was a little firm off the top but excellent everywhere else. I had to send the fork back to get repaired/replaced but since it took a month, they sold out and refunded my money. I would love to get it back but prices are almost double of what the CRC sale price was. Anyone know of good deals out there right now?











Mezzer Pro 29" 160-180 Tapered Boost


Más grande es mejor: la Mezzer Pro de Manitou Bueno, no es hueca si eso es lo que te preguntas. De hecho, esta horquilla está cargada de tecnologías como un amortiguador MC² totalmente sellado, nuestro...




www.bike-discount.de


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

received my ebay mezzers, still trying to find some spacers local.. 
missing the brake hose clamp bolt, any ideas on size and thread? im assuming its an m3? x something


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I measured mine and it is 10mm long (under head to end of bolt), M3 x 0.5, head diameter is 5.3mm on the bolt.

If you get stuck for spacers PM me, I have a bunch of them and can send you some via postal which isn't super speedy but better than having none.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

thanks mate, bolts size info is fantastic
yer i can order spacers from abroad US/ EU which i might have to just do it seems.. UK sucks for Manitou support


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

found some old magnum top cap (iva) sets which came with 10mm shaft spacers for not a ridiculous price (bankruptbikeparts). led to believe the mezzer air shaft is 10mm diameter..they should work i hope


----------



## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The do work, however, will screw up the chamber volume balance, since they are hollow inside.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Kootenay rider said:


> About a month ago I posted that my Mezzer Pro from CRC was leaking oil from the damper side. Had one ride on it and really liked it, it was a little firm off the top but excellent everywhere else. I had to send the fork back to get repaired/replaced but since it took a month, they sold out and refunded my money. I would love to get it back but prices are almost double of what the CRC sale price was. Anyone know of good deals out there right now?


20% off right now...I ordered a mezzer expert... figured at the price...give it a try.


----------



## Kootenay rider (Oct 25, 2005)

foggnm said:


> 20% off right now...I ordered a mezzer expert... figured at the price...give it a try.


Thanks, I ended up ordering the Pro from bike-discount. Should be in soon.


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

Hi all , I ordered a Mezzer pro 27.5 from CRC yesterday , has been shipped……


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

I will be changing the travel before fitting so just going to takes the lowers off , have watched the manitou and Rulezman videos , do I need the slim line 8mm socket on the air side bottom nut or will a normal 8mm socket work? Thanks


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

Pedro46 said:


> Hi all , I ordered a Mezzer pro 27.5 from CRC yesterday , has been shipped……


yea i wanted to order one but they only have 27.5 ones no 29..gutted.


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I'll have a Pro 29" currently set to 170mm available for sale here in the next couple of weeks if anyone in the USA wants/needs one.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Pedro46 said:


> I will be changing the travel before fitting so just going to takes the lowers off , have watched the manitou and Rulezman videos , do I need the slim line 8mm socket on the air side bottom nut or will a normal 8mm socket work? Thanks


Can confirm, need a slim socket, and turn clockwise to loosen.


----------



## Pedro46 (Apr 12, 2017)

JK-47 said:


> Can confirm, need a slim socket, and turn clockwise to loosen.


Thanks


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

having had 2 sets of fox 36 forks im really tempted by a set of these when they come back into stock..they look like they get good reviews,


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

daviduk said:


> having had 2 sets of fox 36 forks im really tempted by a set of these when they come back into stock..they look like they get good reviews,


I replaced my old Fox 36 grip2+luftkappe for a mezzer pro, and never missed anything about the fox since then.
Few weeks ago I had to warranty my mezzer because of a creaky csu and rode the fox again for a month, couldn't say one thing the fox is better at.


----------



## daviduk (Jul 30, 2021)

Mikel Knight said:


> I replaced my old Fox 36 grip2+luftkappe for a mezzer pro, and never missed anything about the fox since then.
> Few weeks ago I had to warranty my mezzer because of a creaky csu and rode the fox again for a month, couldn't say one thing the fox is better at.


thats what i wanted to hear.
ive had 2 fox 36 grip2's and neither off them felt nice over the small bumps,from what i have read these are supposed to be good over the pitter patter stuff which is what im after,i dont do jumps really,well maybe a foot high but thats it,im after the shock thats not gonna make my hands hurt on the trail over small bumpy stuff.

its either these or some lyrik ultimates,


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

@Mikel Knight well you could say the Fox's CSU hasn't needed warranty yet


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

foggnm said:


> @Mikel Knight well you could say the Fox's CSU hasn't needed warranty yet


Actually I had to warranty the Fox fork the first week because of a defective damper.
CSU got replaced 2 times,creaking again.
They are well known for that.

I could say that the Fox warranty service is better than Manitou in my experience,and that's it.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

You are the CSU reaper. Forks creak just at the sight of you.


----------



## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Do bigger diameter stanchions help when it comes to creaking, or the two are not related at all? I'm only about 65kg/143lbs and my Pike started creaking after ~9-10 months... Thinking about picking up a Mezzer next.


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

HollyBoni said:


> Do bigger diameter stanchions help when it comes to creaking, or the two are not related at all? I'm only about 65kg/143lbs and my Pike started creaking after ~9-10 months... Thinking about picking up a Mezzer next.


Larger diameter stanchions paired with a lightweight crown would be more likely to creak. That’s my theory at least when it comes to the Mezzer and its chronic creaking issues. It’s a very stiff and confidence inspiring fork at respectable weight. Something has to give.

Just installed csu number five on my Mezzer, silent so far, but can’t say I’m optimistic the silence will last.

Customer support from Manitou has been great, except for the months long wait for a new csu earlier this year when stock was nil.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

nmxtrdr said:


> Larger diameter stanchions paired with a lightweight crown would be more likely to creak. That’s my theory at least when it comes to the Mezzer and its chronic creaking issues. It’s a very stiff and confidence inspiring fork at respectable weight. Something has to give.
> 
> Just installed csu number five on my Mezzer, silent so far, but can’t say I’m optimistic the silence will last.
> 
> Customer support from Manitou has been great, except for the months long wait for a new csu earlier this year when stock was nil.


Until now EVERY fork has Started creaking under me,from Durolux 2020 Up to the Era..... No wait.my Tiny BOS DeVille from 2015 IS still quiete...but thats IT.

Lemon shox Germany offers exchanging the steeerer For a special one from INTEND and fixing IT additional With Industrial glue.
2. They offer an extra strong steerer Which increases stiffness even more.


Fits For all forks


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

bansaiman said:


> Until now EVERY fork has Started creaking under me,from Durolux 2020 Up to the Era..... No wait.my Tiny BOS DeVille from 2015 IS still quiete...but thats IT.
> 
> Lemon shox Germany offers exchanging the steeerer For a special one from INTEND and fixing IT additional With Industrial glue.
> 2. They offer an extra strong steerer Which increases stiffness even more.
> ...


Interesting about the extra strong steerer. I am thinking it's the industrial glue that would be helping things stay together/creak free. Typically it's the amount of material in the crown that limits how stuff the overall package is. 

Are the intend steerers custom built for each customer? Maybe they are doing a tighter (individual) tolerance press fit as well?


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Intend is a one man shop. I think some one on here did manage to break one though. It was in the Intend thread. Stuff happens though, especially with what some of us are doing to our equipment in this sport.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

006_007 said:


> Interesting about the extra strong steerer. I am thinking it's the industrial glue that would be helping things stay together/creak free. Typically it's the amount of material in the crown that limits how stuff the overall package is.
> 
> Are the intend steerers custom built for each customer? Maybe they are doing a tighter (individual) tolerance press fit as well?



Google and read about Them. They will pretty Sure have less creak and be stiffer.

Cornelius's Products from INTEND usually Work as intended 😉


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Package just got dropped off from Italy. RRT Mezzer going on the bike shortly.


----------



## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

What did the RRT treatment cost?


----------



## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

POAH said:


> What did the RRT treatment cost?



In my case, about five euro..............I got lucky and won one of Paul Aston's raffles. I'll ask Dave what the retail price is and post it though. I worked with him directly as far as getting it tuned etc. At this point, would only get my suspension work done from him. Even being in Italy. Which is why I went ahead and bought the shock at the same time, even though I have a Bomber CR sitting on the work bench.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

shakazulu12 said:


> Package just got dropped off from Italy. RRT Mezzer going on the bike shortly.
> View attachment 1993328
> View attachment 1993328



Those gold decals

😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

shakazulu12 said:


> Package just got dropped off from Italy. RRT Mezzer going on the bike shortly.
> View attachment 1993328
> View attachment 1993328


Haha did exactly the same and picked a kitsuma to go with the golden mezzer.
He sells them (mezzer) for 1600 € I've been told 

Odoslané z M1 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Was waffling about which bike to put the 160mm Mezzer on...went with the trail bike.  Really like their simple decal design and reverse arch. Makes things look clean.


----------



## Blkdoutindustries (Feb 23, 2020)

If anyone is looking for a Mezzer I might be selling mine since I don't have a bike for it any more, it's a 29" 44 offset, just got it back from warranty so it has new lowers, new uncut uppers and new damper bladder so it's pretty much new again, got this fork from Dougal custom tuned for 160-170 rider with the 12mm shim and his rebound tune, also running the 214 seal and could burnish the bushings for new lowers if wanted, I can set it at any travel since I have the tools and Supergliss on hand. Feel free to contact me.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

My two ride review of the Mezzer expert....
Very pleased with the performance of this $680 fork. A bit of stiction out of the box but I gave it the outside-in slick honey treatment and now glides smooth. I wanted a simple fork that works well and that's exactly what I got.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Hello,
More than 3 years on my Mezzer Pro, and still very happy with it. 

However during my last service I noticed some very small metal chips mixed with the oil when draining it from the lowers.
I serviced the airspring, removed and soaked the foam wiper rings in the oil, cleaned the lowers from the chips by re-injecting oil several times until it came back clean and reinstalled the lowers.

I rode the fork several times since then and did not notice anything particular. The fork does not feel particularly sensitive, but I'm running it firm.

Soon enough I'll service the damper, so I'll take the opportunity to check on that again. But before, I was wondering if any of you had the same issue ? As it seems to me the chips can only come from the bushings, replacing the foam wipers/dust seals (they don't look worn though) seems also like a good idea. Any other input ?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

gui21st said:


> Hello,
> More than 3 years on my Mezzer Pro, and still very happy with it.
> 
> However during my last service I noticed some very small metal chips mixed with the oil when draining it from the lowers.
> ...


Are they magnesium chips? Some forks about 3 years had flakes in the lower legs by the bushings and this only became obvious after stirred up by use. They're soft enough to not cause any wear but they take a lot of cleaning out.


----------



## gui21st (Oct 15, 2019)

Dougal said:


> Are they magnesium chips? Some forks about 3 years had flakes in the lower legs by the bushings and this only became obvious after stirred up by use. They're soft enough to not cause any wear but they take a lot of cleaning out.


Thanks for your answer !
Not sure about the material, but it could definitely be magnesium. Unfortunately I didn't think to check the texture and can only remember it was a bunch of very small flakes, metallic-ish, scattered in the old oil when I drained it out. There seemed to be no damage whatsoever on the stanchions or inside the lowers, but it was indeed a pain to clean out.


----------



## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

My first Mezzer developed a creaky crown after <1000 miles. I sold the bike it was on. My second Mezzer developed a creaky crown after <500 miles. Replacement CSAs were not available, so I bought a third Mezzer. My third one has developed bushing play at around 700 miles. No lowers available at the moment.

I bought a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate on sale and I'm actually pretty happy with how it rides. I'll probably be selling my Mezzer whenever I get it back from warranty. I also have a spare CSA for sale if anyone needs one (they are out of stock as well).


----------



## MegaStoke (Aug 27, 2018)

Who can I send my Mezzer to in the US that has the 37mm bushing burnisher? As much as I’d like to send my fork to Dougal, I can’t imagine it’s cheap to ship to NZ and back.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

MegaStoke said:


> Who can I send my Mezzer to in the US that has the 37mm bushing burnisher? As much as I’d like to send my fork to Dougal, I can’t imagine it’s cheap to ship to NZ and back.


I'm in Frederick MD look up shipping and hit me up.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Mikel Knight said:


> I suspect that he may uses cerium oxide to polish the stanctions,already ordered some and will try by myself.


Have you tried this yet?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

hssp said:


> Have you tried this yet?


I will remove the dust seals in about a month to burnish the bushings and will give it a try then.
I already got myself a 3d printed seal driver(the white one)


----------



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

BlueLiquidLabs in Las Cruces will also burnish bushings. It's one of those cases where shipping costs almost as much as the service.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

I rarely use compression damping adjustments on my fancy forks (Ohlins, Fox) other than maybe a little LSC. Last night I figured I'd try the compression dial on my Mezz Exp and very pleasantly surprised it made my fork ride even better through a longer downhill section. I would like to try a pro sometime or maybe buy the mc2 aftermarket. But continue to be impressed with the overall performance of this less expensive fork. Hopefully all the parts availability issues will improve with time...though it seems not uncommon with forks in general...even a few years ago.


----------



## ebolamonkey (Nov 18, 2020)

spo0n said:


> Dougal is there something similar for 6mm ID?


Check here:





Shop - Valving Shims - MX-Tech







mx-tech.com





6mm
8mm
11mm
12mm
16mm

For reference, Manitou/Hayes dealers can order the mini-shim kit (141-26532-K001). In USA, it retails for $13.99USD and has the following shims:
8x10x0.1 (x2)
8x10x0.15 (x2)
8x10x0.2 (x2)
8x11x0.5 (x1)
8x17.5x0.1 (x2)
8x17.5x0.15 (x2)
8x17.5x0.2 (x2)
8x19x0.1 (x2)
8x19x0.15 (x4)
8x19x0.2 (x4)
10x20x0.15 (x1)


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

For anybody that’s interested, there’s a Manitou sale going on at Jenson USA - 40% off until 28 Aug. Mezzer Pro’s for $649.99 USD






Mountain & Road Bikes, Bike Parts, Clothing and Accessories On Sale | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com


----------



## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Of course, just two days ago I ordered a Mara from Bike24. Those are some great deals!



Moosedriver said:


> For anybody that’s interested, there’s a Manitou sale going on at Jenson USA - 40% off until 28 Aug. Mezzer Pro’s for $649.99 USD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Makes me wonder if they are updating the designs. It is probably about that time.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

foggnm said:


> Makes me wonder if they are updating the designs. It is probably about that time.


Possibly, but this is just part of Jenson USA’s Labor Day sale, and it’s for more Manitou products than the Mezzer Pro, I just added that price to my post since this is a Mezzer thread. The Manitou site is currently showing the Mezzer Pro at full price.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

bigdrunk said:


> Of course, just two days ago I ordered a Mara from Bike24. Those are some great deals!


That usually happens to me as well, I guess you could try contacting Bike24 and see if they’ll price match. If not, you could cancel the order if you feel like going through the hassle.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Moosedriver said:


> Possibly, but this is just part of Jenson USA’s Labor Day sale, and it’s for more Manitou products than the Mezzer Pro, I just added that price to my post since this is a Mezzer thread. The Manitou site is currently showing the Mezzer Pro at full price.


They had them 20% off a month ago and sent out coupons that can still be used to buy them discounted. So it seems some type of house cleaning is happening.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

foggnm said:


> Makes me wonder if they are updating the designs. It is probably about that time.


I asked Manitou when the CR deal was going a month ago and they said no updates were coming...


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

Wow, that Jenson deal is crazy. Almost $45 cheaper than the prior chain reaction deal and Jenson didn't charge me tax. Lets hope a new version does not come out tomorrow like Manitou says.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

jlbanta said:


> Wow, that Jenson deal is crazy. Almost $45 cheaper than the prior chain reaction deal and Jenson didn't charge me tax. Lets hope a new version does not come out tomorrow like Manitou says.


Even if a new version did come out, this deal is ridiculously good, and the performance of my expert with IRT is outstanding. I just ordered and can’t wait to try the PRO.

Also, the IRT by itself has jumped in price from $50 to $120…


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

The Jenson stuff appears to be 2 year old stock. Bleed ports, individual stickers, but not 2022 forks like CRC. Should be good.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Ripbro said:


> The Jenson stuff appears to be 2 year old stock. Bleed ports, individual stickers, but not 2022 forks like CRC. Should be good.


Did you receive one?


----------



## Ripbro (May 4, 2020)

No, someone posted on another thread they bought one and paid $650 and got a 2020 fork, individual stickers and bleed ports.

Perhaps they didn’t get it through Jensons. It was an assumption on my part that might not be correct.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Ripbro said:


> No, someone posted on another thread they bought one and paid $650 and got a 2020 fork, individual stickers and bleed ports.
> 
> Perhaps they didn’t get it through Jensons. It was an assumption on my part that might not be correct.


I received mine today from Jenson, and it is a 2020 model with bleed ports.


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

JK-47 said:


> I received mine today from Jenson, and it is a 2020 model with bleed ports.


Did it also have the updated stickers? Ordered one also but won't arrive until midweek. I have a Mezzer now and will be building up anothet bike so timing is perfect. Best fork IMO and Manitou's CS is fantastic!


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

ScottieM8 said:


> Did it also have the updated stickers? Ordered one also but won't arrive until midweek. I have a Mezzer now and will be building up anothet bike so timing is perfect. Best fork IMO and Manitou's CS is fantastic!


What are the updated stickers?


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

JK-47 said:


> What are the updated stickers?


Each letter is an individual sticker.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

JK-47 said:


> I received mine today from Jenson, and it is a 2020 model with bleed ports.


What has changed since the 2020 model?


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

ScottieM8 said:


> Each letter is an individual sticker.


Each letter is indivdual.


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

Is the 2020 Mezzer variant a bad thing? I’m guessing it’s got the older rebound tune, but anything else to be worried with?


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Nope, ride that sucka!


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

The Mezzers with the newer decals should have the new rebound tune and are the latest vesrsion. Seems like the Jenson forks are the updated models. Regardless, if there are any issues with the fork Manitou will take care of it.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I picked up one of the Jenson 27.5 Mezzers, is a good deal and I am looking for a 180mm fork.

I also picked up 25 of the 214 x-rings which is a several lifetime supply.

If you are looking for a couple PM me and I will send a couple your way gratis until my supply runs out.

Also picking up a 37mm burnishing head and will report on how that goes, have burnished a couple of other forks but not a Mezzer yet.


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

silentG said:


> I picked up one of the Jenson 27.5 Mezzers, is a good deal and I am looking for a 180mm fork.
> 
> I also picked up 25 of the 214 x-rings which is a several lifetime supply.
> 
> ...


Where did you get that 37mm burnishing head, please?


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Took the PRO on its maiden voyage today at Snow Summit, and have it set up identical to my Expert @170mm w/IRT, 60psi main/90psi IRT for my 215lb riding weight . Rebound 7 out from closed and compression full open, well the low speed compression was 1 in from open on the PRO. I serviced the Expert maybe 10hrs ago so it shoud be a fairly close comparison, and both have the 214 ring installed. They felt very very similar, with a touch more mid stroke support from the PRO in high speed berms, possibly due to the bushings being fresh.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Natural Talent here on MTBR and Pinkbike sells a tool out of Canada.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Took the PRO for another spin today and set some PR's on fast, steep, chunk. Defintely a little more mid support than the IRT Expert with the same rebound settings and compression full open.

Still haven't bottomed out the PRO and felt the hbo.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Hi,
I have just received completely new fork from the Manitou service as guarantee replacement. 
From the same beginning I was not happy with that fork, especially it is not supple but very harsh on my hand.

I got it with my bike Vitus Sommet VR and made conversion to ebike.

As now I have new fork I am thinking of selling it.
Once, there are problems with creaking CPU and it is not supple.
If Marzzochi Z1 Coil would be in 180 mm 29 I would bought it and did not write this post. But it is only in 170 mm. Every one is writing this is the most supple feeling fork.
I weighs 66 kg. 
What would you recommend to be really supple and plush?
Maybe the new Zeb Ultimate 2023 or Onyx Sc D1?


----------



## Mikel Knight (Jan 8, 2022)

Radecki said:


> Hi,
> I have just received completely new fork from the Manitou service as guarantee replacement.
> From the same beginning I was not happy with that fork, especially it is not supple but very harsh on my hand.
> 
> ...


What setup do you have to make It feel harsh?


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Mikel Knight said:


> What setup do you have to make It feel harsh?


I have tried multiple didferent setups but finally the best for me with really low pressure around 25 psi main and 45-50 psi Irt.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> I have tried multiple didferent setups but finally the best for me with really low pressure around 25 psi main and 45-50 psi Irt.


Sounds like your pump isn't setting the negative chamber correctly. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> Sounds like your pump isn't setting the negative chamber correctly.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Its not he problem.


----------



## Two_bricks (Mar 18, 2021)

Radecki said:


> Its not he problem.


Can you easily bottom out the fork with the pump attached to the main chamber?


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

Two_bricks said:


> Can you easily bottom out the fork with the pump attached to the main chamber?


Yes, I can. Thats really not my fault of bad settings. In many review we can read that this fork is great but not in small bump sensivity.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Radecki said:


> Yes, I can. Thats really not my fault of bad settings. In many review we can read that this fork is great but not in small bump sensivity.


The Mezzer has excellent small bump sensitivity. Sounds like your fork had an issue to be resolved. Too bad you gave up on it. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Radecki said:


> Yes, I can. Thats really not my fault of bad settings. In many review we can read that this fork is great but not in small bump sensivity.


Either something is wrong with your fork, or you have completely different expectations of what small bump sensitivity is.

This afternoon's ride I was purposely aiming for rocks and roots on the climb and being super impressed how it just ate up the small bumps like they were not there. 

185lb rider 59m88irt 160mm fwiw.

After the ride I realized I had left the tire pressure up at 30psi as I forgot to lower after adding sealant/reseating the tires.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

My small bump sensitivity was better after burnishing the bushings and opening the LSR (that is rebound)


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

JK-47 said:


> Took the PRO on its maiden voyage today at Snow Summit, and have it set up identical to my Expert @170mm w/IRT, 60psi main/90psi IRT for my 215lb riding weight . Rebound 7 out from closed and compression full open, well the low speed compression was 1 in from open on the PRO. I serviced the Expert maybe 10hrs ago so it shoud be a fairly close comparison, and both have the 214 ring installed. They felt very very similar, with a touch more mid stroke support from the PRO in high speed berms, possibly due to the bushings being fresh.


I'm thinking of buying a second Mezzer for another bike but can't say the Expert has made me want more. It is simple, works well, and rides great. It sounds like the ride "feel" is very similar. Other than the support you mentioned any other impressions on differences? I'd be interested in hearing how they compare in high speed rocky/bumpy/repeated hits.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

foggnm said:


> I'm thinking of buying a second Mezzer for another bike but can't say the Expert has made me want more. It is simple, works well, and rides great. It sounds like the ride "feel" is very similar. Other than the support you mentioned any other impressions on differences? I'd be interested in hearing how they compare in high speed rocky/bumpy/repeated hits.


I'm at 6 out on rebound, and 5 out on low speed compression (made me carry a lot more speed through berms), high speed compression fully open. 

The IRT upgrade is $100+ now and not the easy $50 it was last year, so there's that too...


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

I bought an IRT for $50 last month. Think I got lucky and found one at the original price from universal Cycles. I wasn't willing to pay $100 for it.


----------



## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

Is there anything that would go wrong running the Mezzer at 120-130? I bought a 160 from the Hayes/Manitou direct and it came with spacers installed and enough spares to bring it down to 120 (which was the range I wanted to run it at).


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Swolie74 said:


> Is there anything that would go wrong running the Mezzer at 120-130? I bought a 160 from the Hayes/Manitou direct and it came with spacers installed and enough spares to bring it down to 120 (which was the range I wanted to run it at).


Did you ask Manitou?


----------



## dclxvi (Jul 18, 2008)

I just got a new CSU installed and it creaks a lot more that the previous one. Any tips on how to get rid of it? It feels like my bike is going to break in two when riding... The forks works A1 but creaks a lot: that's a lot of creaking.mp4.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

dclxvi said:


> I just got a new CSU installed and it creaks a lot more that the previous one. Any tips on how to get rid of it? It feels like my bike is going to break in two when riding... The forks works A1 but creaks a lot: that's a lot of creaking.mp4.


That needs to be returned and replaced.


----------



## Radecki (Dec 28, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Either something is wrong with your fork, or you have completely different expectations of what small bump sensitivity is.
> 
> This afternoon's ride I was purposely aiming for rocks and roots on the climb and being super impressed how it just ate up the small bumps like they were not there.
> 
> ...


I just suffer hand fatigue. I am riding with 1.8-2 psi in the tire and has one of the best grips which absorbs all impact and despite this it was really not satisfying.
Maybe there was something bad with my fork. Now I have completely new fork from this year but while I will try it again the could not sell it as a new one.
So I am asking you🙂


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

2psi in your tire? 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## nmxtrdr (Sep 30, 2008)

Radecki said:


> I just suffer hand fatigue. I am riding with 1.8-2 psi in the tire and has one of the best grips which absorbs all impact and despite this it was really not satisfying.
> Maybe there was something bad with my fork. Now I have completely new fork from this year but while I will try it again the could not sell it as a new one.
> So I am asking you🙂


Small bump compliance over trail chatter is not the Mezzers strong point, at least using adequate psi for aggressive type riding, and especially if you are lighter in weight. 

I have burnished bushings, supergliss, tried many different shim stacks, rebound and comp settings, and never attained small bump compliance I would call good (decent maybe, while running unusable low pressures). Early on the fork was overhauled by Manitou so that box is also checked. This is compared to Push coil 36, and Avy damper Yari with stock air spring on same bike.

Outstanding fork otherwise.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

I find the small bump very good with my Mezzer Expert. Not as damped feeling as maybe the grip2. It reminds me a lot of the RS lyrik w 2.1 damper, with a stiffer chassis.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Those guys finding oil trapped in the upper leg. Do you have an unseated bladder that's visually not sitting straight?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Those guys finding oil trapped in the upper leg. Do you have an unseated bladder that's visually not sitting straight?


Both my dampers (two different forks) appeared to look completely normal.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Dear guys, a brand new mezzer is looking for its new owner! Ships fast!! Wheel size is 29, offset is 44, travel 180. Steerer uncut. Fender and everything included. I ship with dhl and preferably within europe. Fork is a brand new warranty relacement, MY 22 with the fast rebound tune.


----------



## Uchwmdr (Feb 14, 2021)

Dear guys, a brand new mezzer is looking for its new owner! Ships fast!! Wheel size is 29, offset is 44, travel 180. Steerer uncut. Fender and everything included. I ship with dhl and preferably within europe. Fork is a brand new warranty relacement, MY 22 with the fast rebound tune.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Can you say again? I didn't hear you the first two times.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

Uchwmdr said:


> Dear guys, a brand new mezzer is looking for its new owner! Ships fast!! Wheel size is 29, offset is 44, travel 180. Steerer uncut. Fender and everything included. I ship with dhl and preferably within europe. Fork is a brand new warranty relacement, MY 22 with the fast rebound tune.


Adding price would help.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Those guys finding oil trapped in the upper leg. Do you have an unseated bladder that's visually not sitting straight?


Years ago I commented on this same problem with my first run Mezzer Pro. I finally got Hayes to replace the damper about a year or so ago, but every time I replaced the bath oil, it was missing from the lowers and trapped in the stanchion tubes. My only conclusion is that the damper was ingesting the oil and spitting it out the pressure release valve, where it was then getting trapped. It would flush out when I cycled the damper rod with the lowers off, presumably due to the pressure from the bladder pushing it out that white "seal" that threads into the base of the stanchion.

After they replaced the damper I removed the old one and the bladder was bloated even at full shaft extension, where the new one would collapse slightly. For some dumb reason now having a useless damper sitting in my shop, I was bored and stuck a knife in the bloated bladder with the rod fully extended and it shot oil across my shop a good 20-30ft. Don't ask why I did that, I do not know. The new damper I received was the updated version with additional bleed ports, the bladder would partially collapse at full extension, which the old one never did since removing it.

The bladder was seated properly. The fluid I drained out of it appeared and felt like bath oil, but I could be mistaken in how the damper fluid they used appears, my understanding is that it is colored differently. I used Supergliss 100, 60, and the recommended weight motor oil at various intervals, 20ml each time.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

What color is thw oil in the uppers? Is it blueish? Original damper oil is blue, so if ingested and spit out would give blue color in the oil.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I vaguely recall some blue fluid coming out when I changed it the first time, but I do not remember exactly, it was years ago, maybe a few weeks after it was released. I know that the fluid I drained from the old damper was a golden color, similar to the fluid you put in the lowers and was definitely not blue. I discussed this when it happened and seem to recall saying the same thing then, but my memory is fuzzy.

I have another one from around the same time on my hardtail and it is due for service, if I see it again then I'll definitely make note. I'd be curious if others who encountered the same thing saw the blue damper fluid or golden bath oil, as well.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

The Mezzer dampers I've all worked on would vent out the top if you gave the bladder a good squeeze by hand.

Stock damper oil is blue/green. Stock bath oil is brown.


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Swolie74 said:


> Is there anything that would go wrong running the Mezzer at 120-130? I bought a 160 from the Hayes/Manitou direct and it came with spacers installed and enough spares to bring it down to 120 (which was the range I wanted to run it at).


I've heard of riders doing this but no real feedback.



JK-47 said:


> Did you ask Manitou?


Manitou's response to this is to buy their R7 fork.


----------



## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Not a suspension expert, but there is probably a limit on how much travel you can reduce due to the usable range of compression ratio. I assume the air spring, can only compress to a fixed limit, while reducing the travel will reduce the compression ratio. That's why if you look at any fork, they spec MORE volume spacers for lower travel settings. Since the Mezzer doesn't use volume spacers, these not really a way to adjust compression ratio, other than really adding way too much pressure to the IRT. It also changes the ratio of the main chamber of the IRT and neg chambers. So to a certain point all the compression ratios and intended ratio between main chamber IRT and neg chamber get out of whack to expected use and tunable range.


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

smoothmoose said:


> Not a suspension expert, but there is probably a limit on how much travel you can reduce due to the usable range of compression ratio. I assume the air spring, can only compress to a fixed limit, while reducing the travel will reduce the compression ratio. That's why if you look at any fork, they spec MORE volume spacers for lower travel settings. Since the Mezzer doesn't use volume spacers, these not really a way to adjust compression ratio, other than really adding way too much pressure to the IRT. It also changes the ratio of the main chamber of the IRT and neg chambers. So to a certain point all the compression ratios and intended ratio between main chamber IRT and neg chamber get out of whack to expected use and tunable range.


With the travel reduction, you are making the main chamber smaller/shorter as you go.


----------



## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

hssp said:


> With the travel reduction, you are making the main chamber smaller/shorter as you go.


Correct - but the compression limit at bottom out is the same. I don't know the measurements, but just say the air spring is 250mm long and compresses to 100mm at bottom out (@150mm travel) - that gives you 2.5x compression ratio. The compression limit remains the same at 100mm. So if you want 120mm travel, the spring is reduced to 220mm long and still compresses to 100mm and only gives you 2.2x compression ratio. There is limit on how much you want to reduce compression ratio as it becomes too easy to bottom out and not provide enough support. I'm sure the IRT can help, but there are limits too on when it kicks in and ramps up as it is dependent on the main chamber.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

been on 130mm/29 since i bought my mezzers with nothing to complain about  although i thought htey had seized up.. turns out i had accidentally spilt some neergy gel on the stanchions and it had set solid


----------



## Threedspeed (6 mo ago)

dclxvi said:


> I just got a new CSU installed and it creaks a lot more that the previous one. Any tips on how to get rid of it? It feels like my bike is going to break in two when riding... The forks works A1 but creaks a lot: that's a lot of creaking.mp4.


You can contact Hayes to see if warranty replace, but they just told me to put Loctite retaining compound around the area. I had same sound. It did go away putting the retaining compound in so far. 

I am unimpressed with the Mezzer so far. Had a slightly misaligned bushing so it has ton of stiction even after burnishing (at least I think its due to misaligned bushing). I also need to spread apart lowers slightly manually to put wheel in. Contacted Hayes over month ago and told they don't have extra lowers until November. Seems like you either get lucky with a proper fork from factory or deal with a poor performing fork. Mezzer is a stiff fork, but this one is surely worse than my fox 36 with a DSD Runt in every other way.


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

I came into having too many forks (5) for my two bikes. I have a new in the box Mezzer pro 29 44 180mm if anyone in the USA wants to take it off my hands for $700. I'm not going to actively sell it on PB or anything...just thought a Mezzer fan might need one.


----------



## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

foggnm said:


> I came into having too many forks (5) for my two bikes. I have a new in the box Mezzer pro 29 44 180mm if anyone in the USA wants to take it off my hands for $700. I'm not going to actively sell it on PB or anything...just thought a Mezzer fan might need one.


LOL, so which fork did you settle on? I'm currently have Fox 38 Factory 170mm and it's setup pretty good - even though it's probably overkill for my 150lbs. I have little bit of FOMO about the Mezzer and weight weenie to save 200g.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

foggnm said:


> I came into having too many forks (5) for my two bikes. I have a new in the box Mezzer pro 29 44 180mm if anyone in the USA wants to take it off my hands for $700. I'm not going to actively sell it on PB or anything...just thought a Mezzer fan might need one.


I don't feel so bad about being in the same boat at times, heh, thank you!


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

I'll probably use it on an upcoming project but certainly have other forks in the garage that can be used for the same amount of travel. I can't really find any fault with any of the three brands I own. They ride different...but all get the job done.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

smoothmoose said:


> LOL, so which fork did you settle on? I'm currently have Fox 38 Factory 170mm and it's setup pretty good - even though it's probably overkill for my 150lbs. I have little bit of FOMO about the Mezzer and weight weenie to save 200g.


I’ve had the Zeb, 38 and now the Mezzer. All had their pros and cons but the Mezzer was the best in the most areas. The 38 felt really good but it also numbed the feeling of my bike. I think the weight difference is more like ~400g. I’m not a weight weenie but it is noticeable. IME the Mezzer has better damping, the airspring is a bit more supportive in the midstroke, and its easier to tune. Stiffness wise they felt similar (@175lbs). 

The 38 was easy to set up and get a good set up but after that I found the tuning window was small and couldn’t get me to where I wanted without sending it away for something custom. At your weight, you might find the Mezzer stock tune over damped (based on others experiences in this thread). I’m planning to try a light shim tune this winter as it feels like I’m right on the edge of it being over damped. But it looks easy enough, and the video in the other Mezzer thread walks you through the whole process.

One question is, do you struggle to get your rebound fast enough on the 38 at your weight? I was running a little above the recommended pressure and had rebound wide open and it was still slower that I would have liked. I do like my rebound fast and I also run my rebound wide open on the Mezzer (haven’t checked which rebound shim arrangement I have) but it feels sufficient and is definitely better than on my 38.


----------



## cheftuskey121 (7 mo ago)

foggnm said:


> I came into having too many forks (5) for my two bikes. I have a new in the box Mezzer pro 29 44 180mm if anyone in the USA wants to take it off my hands for $700. I'm not going to actively sell it on PB or anything...just thought a Mezzer fan might need one.


I am very interested. I recently picked up a trek fuel ex 9.8 but the fox 36 on it is awful compared to my other bike with a Mezzer pro 27.5. I would love to have one on this bike. If it’s available I’ll take it!


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

Just got my mezzer pro back from warranty replacement of creaking CSU and after only 3 rides its creaking and cracking worse then the old CSU! I also have noted a lot of play with the non brake side lower leg on the stauntion. Not sure what to do about it, I reached out to the distributor (dirtworks here in australia) but still have heard nothing back.

Apart from the hassle with creaking and dealing with a less then responsive warranty process I really like the fork. However, this has got me wondering if I should look elsewhere for a hard charging fork..??


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

cookie70 said:


> Just got my mezzer pro back from warranty replacement of creaking CSU and after only 3 rides its creaking and cracking worse then the old CSU! I also have noted a lot of play with the non brake side lower leg on the stauntion. Not sure what to do about it, I reached out to the distributor (dirtworks here in australia) but still have heard nothing back.
> 
> Apart from the hassle with creaking and dealing with a less then responsive warranty process I really like the fork. However, this has got me wondering if I should look elsewhere for a hard charging fork..??


Consider taking the hit and getting it fixed locally if you can. Place in Brisbane does it or send to Dougal in NZ if need be. That way it’s much less likely to creak (for a while) and you don’t have to subject yourself to a Foxshox fork.


----------



## wake jake (Apr 10, 2006)

You sound unlucky with CSUs! I'm on my 4th pair of Mezzers and I'm 95kg. Not one creaky CSU. Stick with the fork if you can with one of the fixes above. I know Dirtworks are painful to deal with which doesn't help.


----------



## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

kapolczer said:


> I’ve had the Zeb, 38 and now the Mezzer. All had their pros and cons but the Mezzer was the best in the most areas. The 38 felt really good but it also numbed the feeling of my bike. I think the weight difference is more like ~400g. I’m not a weight weenie but it is noticeable. IME the Mezzer has better damping, the airspring is a bit more supportive in the midstroke, and its easier to tune. Stiffness wise they felt similar (@175lbs).
> 
> The 38 was easy to set up and get a good set up but after that I found the tuning window was small and couldn’t get me to where I wanted without sending it away for something custom. At your weight, you might find the Mezzer stock tune over damped (based on others experiences in this thread). I’m planning to try a light shim tune this winter as it feels like I’m right on the edge of it being over damped. But it looks easy enough, and the video in the other Mezzer thread walks you through the whole process.
> 
> One question is, do you struggle to get your rebound fast enough on the 38 at your weight? I was running a little above the recommended pressure and had rebound wide open and it was still slower that I would have liked. I do like my rebound fast and I also run my rebound wide open on the Mezzer (haven’t checked which rebound shim arrangement I have) but it feels sufficient and is definitely better than on my 38.


Thanks for the response. My F38 HSR is fully open and LSR is 11 clicks from closed, so yeah running it pretty open. I've tuned with Shockwiz and it's scores 90-100% depending on trails, but overall, it feels pretty good. Maybe it'll feel better if I was on a lighter tune, not sure. I can only compare to EXT ERA which I had half day test ride on. That fork did feel a bit more active and a bit more mid-stroke support. Not like the F38 is bad, it's good, really good. My buddies riding behind me commented how well the F38 was tracking and it looked like my upper body was still while riding through chunk - that might be an overstatement because I still feel the gnarl, but as I said, I just have some FOMO.


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

In my experience all Sing


cookie70 said:


> Just got my mezzer pro back from warranty replacement of creaking CSU and after only 3 rides its creaking and cracking worse then the old CSU! I also have noted a lot of play with the non brake side lower leg on the stauntion. Not sure what to do about it, I reached out to the distributor (dirtworks here in australia) but still have heard nothing back.
> 
> Apart from the hassle with creaking and dealing with a less then responsive warranty process I really like the fork. However, this has got me wondering if I should look elsewhere for a hard charging fork..??


In my experience all single crown forks will creak. I put green locktite on crow to steer tube and station points on new forks. This has helped a lot.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

smoothmoose said:


> Thanks for the response. My F38 HSR is fully open and LSR is 11 clicks from closed, so yeah running it pretty open. I've tuned with Shockwiz and it's scores 90-100% depending on trails, but overall, it feels pretty good. Maybe it'll feel better if I was on a lighter tune, not sure. I can only compare to EXT ERA which I had half day test ride on. That fork did feel a bit more active and a bit more mid-stroke support. Not like the F38 is bad, it's good, really good. My buddies riding behind me commented how well the F38 was tracking and it looked like my upper body was still while riding through chunk - that might be an overstatement because I still feel the gnarl, but as I said, I just have some FOMO.


I don’t think you’re missing out, especially if you’re happy with your F38. As far as set and forget goes the F38 is an easy fork, you can set it up in 2 minutes or spend days playing with it and it really doesn’t change the feel much. The Mezzer takes some more time to dial in but the changes you make are noticeable. Do I like the Mezzer more? Yes. Does it feel like an upgrade? Yes. But is it a revelation in performance? No. I prefer the feel and performance, It’s more tuneable, has HBO and IRT and is lighter. All reasons why I went for it when I had my 38 (oh yeah the LE silver is HOT too… haha). I rode the 38 and Mezzer back to back when I got it, and then again since then (although not on my bike) and I still prefer the Mezzer. Keep an eye out for a good deal on a new Mezzer (like crc and Jenson had over the summer) and then if you’re still curious pull the trigger, would likely atleast be able to break even on it selling your F38, and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed at all.


----------



## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Finished my 1st ride on new Ripmo AF and new Mezzer Pro that I picked up from Jenson’s recent sale. Rode a very familiar trail with several long, fast descents and sections of rocky, technical descents. Running the default 160 mm of travel (the fork was manufactured Sept 2020 so I dropped the lowers, refreshed the semi-bath, and lubed the air spring and IRT). 

Started with pressures of 35/55 that I found in another thread recommended by Dougal (I’m 155 kitted up). Ran the recommended damping from the Mezzer Pro Setup Guide. Without a doubt, it was the most plush, planted ride on this trail I’ve experienced. 

Both the frame and fork are new to me so difficult to know which was more responsible for my observations but I couldn’t be more pleased. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cookie70 said:


> Just got my mezzer pro back from warranty replacement of creaking CSU and after only 3 rides its creaking and cracking worse then the old CSU! I also have noted a lot of play with the non brake side lower leg on the stauntion. Not sure what to do about it, I reached out to the distributor (dirtworks here in australia) but still have heard nothing back.
> 
> Apart from the hassle with creaking and dealing with a less then responsive warranty process I really like the fork. However, this has got me wondering if I should look elsewhere for a hard charging fork..??


They changed the CSU and now it feels like bushing play?


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

Dougal said:


> They changed the CSU and now it feels like bushing play?


Yes, the creaking started almost immediately, then on 3rd ride the fork felt strange, like chattering. When I hold the wheel and turn the bars there is observable movement between the stantion and lower leg on the right side. Never seen anything like it on any forks before, like the bushes are completely stuffed on that leg.

I've got a 3 week tassie trip end of november so nervous about how the mezzer will go..


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cookie70 said:


> Yes, the creaking started almost immediately, then on 3rd ride the fork felt strange, like chattering. When I hold the wheel and turn the bars there is observable movement between the stantion and lower leg on the right side. Never seen anything like it on any forks before, like the bushes are completely stuffed on that leg.
> 
> I've got a 3 week tassie trip end of november so nervous about how the mezzer will go..


The only way to isolate bushing play is to install the lowers one leg at a time and feel for play. 0.1mm clearance is normal and can be felt by hand easily like this but not while riding, 0.15mm is the point the most perceptible riders will start to notice.


----------



## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Quick check...can Mezzer still be reduced to 140?

I see stores now advertizing 180-160...what is the reason?

Is the reason that only 20mm worth of spacers are included in, or am I missing something?


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It can be reduced. You just buy them in 160 ( 20mm spacers installed) or 180 (comes with 40mm of spacers).

I ran mine at 140mm for awhile. Some run them lower.


----------



## slashIE (Dec 15, 2019)

So I just wonder if someone got into the same conclusion as me. Many riders say that Mezzer can be harsh. In fact it actually might be a little bit comparing to my previous Lyrik ultimate. However, I noticed that harder you ride on the front wheel then plusher the Mezzer is. 
I have my Mezzer on Transition Sentinel V2 at 160mm with 63.5 HTA. 
Slack bikes require more aggressive riding on the front wheel to get a good grip. Mezzer seems to to be perfect choice for the slack bike. Thanks to IRT I feel like I’m staying up when I push against the roots and rocks. It also feels much more compliant when you push through it.
Has anyone else noticed that on slack bikes?
I weigh fully geared around 88kg/195lbs with 57/90 psi.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

slashIE said:


> So I just wonder if someone got into the same conclusion as me. Many riders say that Mezzer can be harsh. In fact it actually might be a little bit comparing to my previous Lyrik ultimate. However, I noticed that harder you ride on the front wheel then plusher the Mezzer is.
> I have my Mezzer on Transition Sentinel V2 at 160mm with 63.5 HTA.
> Slack bikes require more aggressive riding on the front wheel to get a good grip. Mezzer seems to to be perfect choice for the slack bike. Thanks to IRT I feel like I’m staying up when I push against the roots and rocks. It also feels much more compliant when you push through it.
> Has anyone else noticed that on slack bikes?
> I weigh fully geared around 88kg/195lbs with 57/90 psi.


It's got almost double the compression damping of a Lyrik so the faster you go the better it feels.


----------



## jacksonlui (Aug 15, 2015)

Really liking the mezzer pro and now I'm in the market for another fork for my levo ebike. Has anyone tried the mezzer pro for a 50lb bike?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Don't know why it would make a difference. I weigh 200 and have ridden this fork on a 35 pound enduro bike and a 28 pound hardtail.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jacksonlui said:


> Really liking the mezzer pro and now I'm in the market for another fork for my levo ebike. Has anyone tried the mezzer pro for a 50lb bike?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Yes. It works just as well on the Levo.


----------



## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

cassieno said:


> It can be reduced. You just buy them in 160 ( 20mm spacers installed) or 180 (comes with 40mm of spacers).
> 
> I ran mine at 140mm for awhile. Some run them lower.


Thanks. Any feedback on performance at 140? I am considering placing it on a Giant Fathom, stock geo is with 130mm.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Same as performance at any other length. It's good. If you buy the 160 version it will come with enough spacers to reduce it to 130mm. I haven't tried that low. But a couple people in this thread have and reported that it's also good.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Response to @*slashIE* back a few posts...#4579 to be exact.

I have noticed that on my Patrol and Insurgent, I have an Ohlins fork and is similar - when you start to push you keep support in the fork which rewards you. Much preferred over 'feels good at really slow speeds in the parking lot but taking my life in my hands when it gets intense' type of forks.


----------



## Alan1977 (Apr 9, 2021)

Goran_injo said:


> Thanks. Any feedback on performance at 140? I am considering placing it on a Giant Fathom, stock geo is with 130mm.


been running mine at 130mm on my hardtail and more than pleased


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

springs said:


> Consider taking the hit and getting it fixed locally if you can. Place in Brisbane does it or send to Dougal in NZ if need be. That way it’s much less likely to creak (for a while) and you don’t have to subject yourself to a Foxshox fork.





cookie70 said:


> Yes, the creaking started almost immediately, then on 3rd ride the fork felt strange, like chattering. When I hold the wheel and turn the bars there is observable movement between the stantion and lower leg on the right side. Never seen anything like it on any forks before, like the bushes are completely stuffed on that leg.
> 
> I've got a 3 week tassie trip end of november so nervous about how the mezzer will go..


Got recommended to send it to highline cycles in QLD by the lads on this forum. Think I got the fork back in Sydney in like a week. 0 creaks since April and price is way cheaper than getting new Stanchions. Help outside the warranty period is rubbish being in Australia. Couldn't get Stanchions from Manitou and Dirtworks unknown eta and no follow up was zero help either.


----------



## cookie70 (Oct 23, 2019)

davidt93 said:


> Got recommended to send it to highline cycles in QLD by the lads on this forum. Think I got the fork back in Sydney in like a week. 0 creaks since April and price is way cheaper than getting new Stanchions. Help outside the warranty period is rubbish being in Australia. Couldn't get Stanchions from Manitou and Dirtworks unknown eta and no follow up was zero help either.


thnks will look it up. Really like the fork and dont really want to go looking for something else. Even my experience with EXT customer service here is pathetic.. its so frustrating.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

cassieno said:


> Same as performance at any other length. It's good. If you buy the 160 version it will come with enough spacers to reduce it to 130mm. I haven't tried that low. But a couple people in this thread have and reported that it's also good.


actually it seems like you don’t even need spacers. When the fork is at 140mm, I connect the pump to the main chamber, push to 130mm and disconnect it and it stays there. Works at any travel really. I wonder if the positive volume chamber is that different with one travel spacer less but it works fine on my side


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Finally got the 2022 Fox 36 Factory Grip 2 on my son’s bike to feel like a Mezzer, spent a year, did a Luftkappe, played with tuning and then overnight, bamm, works right.












Interestingly, this was bought on the Jenson sale, has a manufacturer date of 8/6/2020, but has the later, lighter rebound tune, but with 12mm shims instead of 13 mm. Bushings are perfect and it feels better than the one on my bike. Now to get the shorter piggyback installed on his Mara Pro so can run it and dump the Float X.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Interesting, the one I picked up on the Jenson sale has blacked out decals mostly, I haven't seen that style before.

I haven't changed out the quad ring or evaluated bushings yet, only one ride so far, still tinkering with the bike it is on before I turn it loose.

The light in the photo makes the second picture look like someone slapped a decal over another decal but just the blacked out version.


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

silentG said:


> Interesting, the one I picked up on the Jenson sale has blacked out decals mostly, I haven't seen that style before.
> 
> I haven't changed out the quad ring or evaluated bushings yet, only one ride so far, still tinkering with the bike it is on before I turn it loose.
> 
> ...


I think that is a 2021+ with the newer stickers.


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

My Mezzer with a Sep 2020 manufacture date has the same sticker set as SilentG’s.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Mine shows up in 4 days, took about 3 weeks from Germany. Will do the initial slick honey purge and lower oil check and reread at least the first few pages of these 230.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

Is it worth adding irt to an expert? Seems to allow an easier way to tune the progressiveness than having to open up the left knob to change tokens. And with the iva fixed token system the spring progression is fixed.

I'm currently running the fork at 160mm
The fork is supportive but not that plush at 25% sag (~40mm @ 63 psi), and the fork has a "larger action" which bucks me off when i try to ride up some test stair steps.
At 57 psi the sag seems excessive @ ~60mm, but the plushness is better and I can ride up my test steps without getting bucked off the bike because the fork soaks up the hits better.

I also find the fork to be nicely plush at the lower air pressure and quite meh at the higher air pressure.

I also bought my mezzer expert at ~500 usd on bike24 2 months back, no way I would have bought the pro since it cost nearly 800 usd at the time


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

sselhtrim said:


> Is it worth adding irt to an expert? Seems to allow an easier way to tune the progressiveness than having to open up the left knob to change tokens. And with the iva fixed token system the spring progression is fixed.
> 
> I'm currently running the fork at 160mm
> The fork is supportive but not that plush at 25% sag (~40mm @ 63 psi), and the fork has a "larger action" which bucks me off when i try to ride up some test stair steps.
> ...


IRT was $50, now $120... I added to my Expert and it did not sit as low in the travel, and didn't lose the plush feeling, well worth the $50. Got a Pro on sale and it is another level up from the Expert w/IRT. Regardless, both worked worlds better for my 200lb+ weight than my previous 2021 Lyrik ultimate.


----------



## sselhtrim (Nov 6, 2021)

I eat my words, turns out going from 150 to 160mm i needed to move the volume spacer up by one level, the fork feels spot on now and i'm climbing stairs with unimaginable ease..

If the pro is even better, i cannot imagine what that must feel like. But I will definitely pay attention to the next manitou R7 when it comes out for my xc bike if even their little forks are this good.


----------



## Boissal (Aug 24, 2021)

Just received a 3rd Mezzer Pro, manufacturing date 8/2022, and I'm seeing quite a few differences from the previous models (late 2020 and late 2021). Other than the stealth decals (which I've ordered aftermarket for the other 2 fork since they look much better in all black IMO), this new fork has a crown that is matte black instead of glossy. The biggest difference is a bulge in the lowers which I haven't seen so far. It's about 1/2 down the lowers (around the N of the Manitou decal), basically a length of lowers with a slightly larger diameter than the rest of the leg. Apologies if this has been discussed before and I missed it. I'm going to drop the lowers and see if there's anything odd inside that wasn't there on the previous generation of forks.

As an aside, I bought this to replace a 2022 Pike Ultimate on a Stumpy then decided I should give the Pike an honest go. After endless fiddling the Pike has never felt as good as the Mezzer right out of the box when it isn't anywhere near dialed. Pretty rough on high speed chatter (brake bumps), prone to diving and blowing through the mid stroke before ramping up and kicking like a mule, and overall really hard to setup for good performance across the board. 

The IRT has ruined any token-based fork for me...


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Boissal said:


> IRT has ruined any token-based fork for me...


Yep. I really like my Mezzer(s), but I do often wonder what a runt in the latest superduper Zeb would feel like.


----------



## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

Two rides on my new Mezzer over the weekend, and it felt awesome. Coming from an MRP ribbon air. 

Have it at 170mm on a Stumpjumper evo with neutral headset cup. 
82 IRT, 52 main, HSC open, LSC 1-3 clicks in from open. 

Trails finally got a lot of rain in the Seattle area. Riding some black diamond trails, fairly conservatively as riding in the wet isn't in my wheelhouse as I just moved to the area from drier climates. The fork felt great on everything I rode. It felt supportive, I was able to use most/all travel, and I actually had a discernible difference when changing LSC settings (used more LSC on a steep descent to get rid of brake dive) , instead of the fork just feeling shittier. Hand fatigue was non-existent compared to the MRP, although riding at a slower pace may have something to do with that. 

I'm excited to see how it feels as my wet riding skill improves, and especially when I ride again in dry conditions.


----------



## Boissal (Aug 24, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> Yep. I really like my Mezzer(s), but I do often wonder what a runt in the latest superduper Zeb would feel like.


I'm sure there are equally good options out there, you just have to dump mad $$ to get them. Zeb + runt has got to be close to the price of 2 Mezzers...


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

EatsDirt said:


> Yep. I really like my Mezzer(s), but I do often wonder what a runt in the latest superduper Zeb would feel like.


You could add Chickadee Hill AWK for the triple chamber treatment on the Zeb

Sent fra min SM-T720 via Tapatalk


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

EatsDirt said:


> Yep. I really like my Mezzer(s), but I do often wonder what a runt in the latest superduper Zeb would feel like.


I have the new Lyrik and Zeb on two of my bikes, the Lyrik on my short travel bike at 150 and the Zeb on my bigger bike at 170.

The Lyrik feels good enough, but I don't think it's better than the Mezzer is. It took some time getting dialed in, it seems closer to the Mezzer than I thought it would be and than previous iterations, but it can be fairly harsh at times and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about their claims of increased support. IMO the Mezzer is better, but mine isn't as awful as I think some are reporting it to be.

I've only got one ride on the Zeb so far and it felt like ass, but I was way oversprung and I need more time on it. I feel like the Lyrik started to feel a bit better after a few rides, but that could just be me getting used to it, the Mezzer always felt pretty dialed in really soon. It's possible I just need more time on the Zeb, which I'll give it.

IMO Buttercups don't do anything, at least not what they claim. I wouldn't buy one based on those alone, seems like a marketing gimmick to me. If you already have a Mezzer, I wouldn't buy either expecting an improvement. If I can't get the Zeb where I want it then I'll probably end up getting another Mezzer for that bike.

I'm not sure how much a RUNT would change or improve any of this, I did call and they said they are working on one for the 2023s, though.

The only fork I've had of probably 15 or 16 in the last 4 years that I felt was better was the Ohlins RXF36 m.2 coil at 170, but you have to deal with the ~7-8mm longer a2c and coils being finicky with setup. Even then, it was marginally better and not worth the cost difference. It also didn't work as well as the Mezzer when I dropped it to 150.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Honestly the Lyrik is better than the Zeb. Zeb has a really weird air-spring curve which they keep tinkering with to improve. Charger 2.1 is harsh and lacking support in stock form but can be modified and tuned. Charger 3 is IMO several steps backwards from the 2.1.

If Manitou didn't exist I'd be on a tuned Charger 2.1 lyrik, probably with a Secus.

If the Mezzer didn't exist I'd still be on my 2018 Mattoc Pro 3. Also tuned.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Honestly the Lyrik is better than the Zeb. Zeb has a really weird air-spring curve which they keep tinkering with to improve. Charger 2.1 is harsh and lacking support in stock form but can be modified and tuned. Charger 3 is IMO several steps backwards from the 2.1.
> 
> If Manitou didn't exist I'd be on a tuned Charger 2.1 lyrik, probably with a Secus.
> 
> If the Mezzer didn't exist I'd still be on my 2018 Mattoc Pro 3. Also tuned.


I agree with the lyrik air spring being better than the Zeb. I could not get to a happy place with my Zeb, it was either plush off the top but super divey in the mid stroke or supportive but crazy harsh (despite myself typically being okay with sacrificing some forgiveness for more support). Although the chassis is noticeably stiffer than the lyrik, which was good and bad depending on your preferences and terrain. But I’m sure that throwing every airspring upgrade (or a coil…) and custom damping would make for a really good fork, as well as a much lighter wallet.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Interesting, all the reviews and feedback I got from folks was the opposite for the 2023 models: they preferred the Zeb to the Lyrik, with the latter feeling harsh. That's the main reason I got it, I was kinda anxious to see what the fuss was about. I have no doubt you are both right, though, it felt remarkably worse than my Lyrik did on the first ride, but I was oversprung a fair bit. I'll keep working with it a bit and I'll ditch it if I can't get it the way I want it. I like trying new things but on my bigger bikes I always end up back with the Mezzer at some point.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Adodero said:


> Interesting, all the reviews and feedback I got from folks was the opposite for the 2023 models: they preferred the Zeb to the Lyrik, with the latter feeling harsh. That's the main reason I got it, I was kinda anxious to see what the fuss was about. I have no doubt you are both right, though, it felt remarkably worse than my Lyrik did on the first ride, but I was oversprung a fair bit. I'll keep working with it a bit and I'll ditch it if I can't get it the way I want it. I like trying new things but on my bigger bikes I always end up back with the Mezzer at some point.


My fork was a 2021 so I can’t speak to the updates, although the new airspring does seem like a step in the right direction. Off the top, when set at the recommended spring rate, the Zeb was fantastic. Like had me going “WTF” dropping into my first lap. Going down a fast open section at the bike park that was lots of 2-4” rocks and such it was magic carpet like, but then it would dive really bad when I actually had to weight the front end, followed by an aggressive ramp up, which for hard g-outs was fine but in the sustained steeps in was down right scary the way you felt like you had support and then your fork seemingly dropped 60+mm like it didn’t exist and then you were riding too deep right at the wall of progression. So I added more lsc 1-2 clicks at a time, and right as it felt more supportive the feedback started to become too much in my hands, so I backed off the compression and added more pressure but had similar issues; More support but also too much feedback. Back and forth I went until I gave up and got a 38, which was better but had its own issues, which led me to getting the Mezzer. Which I’m always tinkering with but only because I want to, not because I can’t get it to feel right. I hope that the 2023 version is better though, because I do think the chassis has tons of potential, and the Zeb is a very good looking fork (if you care about that sort of thing).


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Hi Question: I just lowered the travel of my new Mezzer Expert from 180 to 160mm. The problem is it not extending to full travel atuomatically. In fact it does extend to about 160mm but then I can pull another 10mm out of it so to around 170. I already did a lot of research and I understand it might be air in the negative chamber, however it tried everything to release that air. Including bleeding with ports and zip tie, pushing and extend the fork quickly, opening the fork again and checking is the equalising port is free,.. Also changed the oil.. I haven't made a test ride yet but I presume its gonna affect the performance... I'm pretty desperate atm, especially since Manitou service in Europe is quite bad. Did anyone have this issue or know what it could be? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> Hi Question: I just lowered the travel of my new Mezzer Expert from 180 to 160mm. The problem is it not extending to full travel atuomatically. In fact it does extend to about 160mm but then I can pull another 10mm out of it so to around 170. I already did a lot of research and I understand it might be air in the negative chamber, however it tried everything to release that air. Including bleeding with ports and zip tie, pushing and extend the fork quickly, opening the fork again and checking is the equalising port is free,.. Also changed the oil.. I haven't made a test ride yet but I presume its gonna affect the performance... I'm pretty desperate atm, especially since Manitou service in Europe is quite bad. Did anyone have this issue or know what it could be? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!


Put your bike upside down, connect your pump, pull the lower to maximum extension and then try to inflate again it should be better.
If I understand well, the fork equalizes at the point you inflate the fork so if the bike is sitting with its own weight it’s possible that you are inflating below the maximum travel. That’s what I use to reduce the travel on the fly actually instead of opening the fork to put a spacer more.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Even better done on a stand, so no weight is trying to compress the fork. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

CCS86 said:


> Even better done on a stand, so no weight is trying to compress the fork. Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


 I actually inflated the fork in the stand and the issue remains. I also tried adding some air before putting the lowers back on so I would compress them by accident. Also I can't see how that would cause the problem beceause whel I pull the extra 10mm I have +-170mm while the travel is supposed to be 160 with the spacers...


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Each spacer is 10mm. Did you put 4 in? It physically won't be able to be pulled to 170mm if you have the appropriate number of spacers.


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> Each spacer is 10mm. Did you put 4 in? It physically won't be able to be pulled to 170mm if you have the appropriate number of spacers.


That's what I thought, I did put 4 spacers in (2 pairs)


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> That's what I thought, I did put 4 spacers in (2 pairs)


That sounds like 2 spacers

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> That's what I thought, I did put 4 spacers in (2 pairs)


That should be the right number. Each pair is 10mm stacked. and it starts at 180. 

The other question is where did you put the little metal washer.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Metal washer is support for the bumper. Goes between the bumper and spacers. It's not as critical with the two piece spacers as it was with the pac-man style one piece spacers.


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> That should be the right number. Each pair is 10mm stacked. and it starts at 180.
> 
> The other question is where did you put the little metal washer.


I put the metal ring under the spacer acoording to the videos. I can't understand why I can pull it to 170. Does your exposed stanchion length exactly match the travel?
Haven't made a testride yet but I presume the extra 10mm I can pull will negatively affect the performance..


----------



## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> I put the metal ring under the spacer acoording to the videos. I can't understand why I can pull it to 170. Does your exposed stanchion length exactly match the travel?
> Haven't made a testride yet but I presume the extra 10mm I can pull will negatively affect the performance..


Do you measure all the way to the top of the stanctions? Know that full compression is not all the way to the crown.


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> I put the metal ring under the spacer acoording to the videos. I can't understand why I can pull it to 170. Does your exposed stanchion length exactly match the travel?
> Haven't made a testride yet but I presume the extra 10mm I can pull will negatively affect the performance..


Deflate your fork completely and see where it bottoms out, pretty sure you will still have some stanchion exposed that might be your extra cm you are looking for ?


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Yes


Brodybro29 said:


> Deflate your fork completely and see where it bottoms out, pretty sure you will still have some stanchion exposed that might be your extra cm you are looking for ?


Yes it bottoms out at 1 cm so when I messure the length at the O ring at bottom out I have about 153 mm. The problem is I can pull it further out so to about 158.
The fact that it doesn't return to full extension automatically is the problem. I was thinking maybe oil is trapped in the negative. I contacted manitou and they asked me to send the for warranty but then I won't be able to ride for a long time prolly. Guess I'll have to


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

It doesn't sound like an issue then, there is basically a soft top out when you don't pull on it then right ?
I will check my Mezzer, pretty sure it's similar to avoid harsh top out. On my Fox 36 with a luftkappe it is the same, I have maybe 5mm or so I can extend by hand but will not be reached otherwise, it is because the fork doesn't top out on some hardware but because of the negative chamber doing its job.

I would definitely not worry about these 5mm of "negative" travel then it is just there to ensure soft top out and sensitive beginning of stroke


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Brodybro29 said:


> It doesn't sound like an issue then, there is basically a soft top out when you don't pull on it then right ?
> I will check my Mezzer, pretty sure it's similar to avoid harsh top out. On my Fox 36 with a luftkappe it is the same, I have maybe 5mm or so I can extend by hand but will not be reached otherwise, it is because the fork doesn't top out on some hardware but because of the negative chamber doing its job.
> 
> I would definitely not worry about these 5mm of "negative" travel then it is just there to ensure soft top out and sensitive beginning of stroke


allright, thanks! I'll do a testride soon


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> allright, thanks! I'll do a testride soon



I can pull that much out before top out so definitely no issue with your fork !


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> I actually inflated the fork in the stand and the issue remains. I also tried adding some air before putting the lowers back on so I would compress them by accident. Also I can't see how that would cause the problem beceause whel I pull the extra 10mm I have +-170mm while the travel is supposed to be 160 with the spacers...


How may spacers did you put in the airspring? You shouldn't have 170mm. FYI when the fork bottoms out there's about 5mm left of stantion un-used.


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Cerberus75 said:


> How may spacers did you put in the airspring? You shouldn't have 170mm. FYI when the fork bottoms out there's about 5mm left of stantion un-used.


I put the correct amount of spacers in (4, 2x2). It just seemed strange to me that I could pull another 7 to 10 mm out of the fork after auto extension. But I guess it's normal..


----------



## nicolaifranckxx (3 mo ago)

Brodybro29 said:


> I can pull that much out before top out so definitely no issue with your fork !
> 
> View attachment 2006418


Allright! Might be normal then. I'll see this weekend on the test ride. Thanks!


----------



## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

nicolaifranckxx said:


> I put the correct amount of spacers in (4, 2x2). It just seemed strange to me that I could pull another 7 to 10 mm out of the fork after auto extension. But I guess it's normal..


Maybe the lenth perception is different. But I can pull about 5mm against the top out bumper.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

A sneak peek at something I've been working on:


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> A sneak peek at something I've been working on:
> 
> View attachment 2007136


New pistons?


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

silentG said:


> I don't feel so bad about being in the same boat at times, heh, thank you!


Still have it. Message me if interested.
29 Mezzer Pro 44 offset 180mm, uncut steerer, new in box. $730 shipped to US.


----------



## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I'm a 27.5 only luddite unfortunately


----------



## jlbanta (Apr 5, 2011)

Dougal said:


> A sneak peek at something I've been working on:


Can you translate in terms of ride feel? What’s the goal withthe new tunes?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

springs said:


> New pistons?


One high flow piston, rest is shims.



jlbanta said:


> Can you translate in terms of ride feel? What’s the goal withthe new tunes?


A rack of tunes so you can match your damping to your specific needs.


----------



## kapolczer (Sep 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> One high flow piston, rest is shims.
> 
> 
> 
> A rack of tunes so you can match your damping to your specific needs.


This is super exciting. Will it be available to buy and self install?


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

jlbanta said:


> Can you translate in terms of ride feel? What’s the goal withthe new tunes?


If I am reading it right, the rebound is getting a wide range of control from low speed through high speed out of the adjuster while maintaining a linear rebound tune. Normally I would expect the rebound to have a knee that changes shape as it transitions from the speed needle to high speed stack, dependent on where the low speed needle is set (open less of a knee and more linear, closed more of a knee and more digressive). I am assuming the changes in the compression ranges on the top part of the graph are not due to changes in the settings on the compression side, but rather from cross-bleed between the rebound and compression needles, which looks to be small (meaning changing rebound won't have a significant affect on compression, a common issue with many shocks).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kapolczer said:


> This is super exciting. Will it be available to buy and self install?


If solidworks ever stops screwing me around......


----------



## davidt93 (Aug 27, 2018)

Any company's that make a mudguard for the mezzer that's not made out of paper?


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

davidt93 said:


> Any company's that make a mudguard for the mezzer that's not made out of paper?


Too many weetbix before installation?


----------



## Boissal (Aug 24, 2021)

I've had to re-rig mine with zip ties after the inserts for the bolts failed but I actually think the flimsiness of the whole thing makes it quite good at taking hits without breaking


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Chain Reaction Cycles has a Mezzer Pro sale going on, 27.5 models for $514 USD. 29ers are showing out of stock.









Manitou Mezzer Pro Boost Mountain Bike Fork | Chain Reaction


Manitou Mezzer Pro Boost Mountain Bike Fork - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles



www.chainreactioncycles.com


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Adodero said:


> I have the new Lyrik and Zeb on two of my bikes, the Lyrik on my short travel bike at 150 and the Zeb on my bigger bike at 170.
> 
> The Lyrik feels good enough, but I don't think it's better than the Mezzer is. It took some time getting dialed in, it seems closer to the Mezzer than I thought it would be and than previous iterations, but it can be fairly harsh at times and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about their claims of increased support. IMO the Mezzer is better, but mine isn't as awful as I think some are reporting it to be.
> 
> ...


To Further improve the mezzer and win more Spacer I have different measures ordered after price

1. Callibrated bushings
2. Douglas new Piston when available
2. Get DZ Suspension Treatment: callibrated bushings,polished Air Piston stanchions surface,thinner oil,custom shimstack, better hsc spring
3. RTT Rulezman Treatment... Aß He Doesnt give away Details I do Not know which more measures He does besides golden Stickers and anodizing adjusters


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

RTT RULEZMAN MEZZER

By the way,can someone please Tell me more Details about the improvement in Performance that your Mezzers gained from the RTT treatment?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

cookie70 said:


> thnks will look it up. Really like the fork and dont really want to go looking for something else. Even my experience with EXT customer service here is pathetic.. its so frustrating.



get in contract With the German manitou Publisher 

HAYES in München (Munich) and Tell th your problem

If they have parts available, they will Help you asap


----------



## jake lecluse (Dec 24, 2021)

4. NSR Racing Treatment. New SKF wipers, New air seals,B ushing Calibration, NSR-RACING Cartridge kit & Custom tune

I have had an RRT Mezzer and now run an NSR Mezzer and Dorado. In my experience the RRT Mezzer provided better small bump sensitivity, increased traction & midstroke support.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

jake lecluse said:


> 4. NSR Racing Treatment. New SKF wipers, New air seals,B ushing Calibration, NSR-RACING Cartridge kit & Custom tune
> 
> I have had an RRT Mezzer and now run an NSR Mezzer and Dorado. In my experience the RRT Mezzer provided better small bump sensitivity, increased traction & midstroke support.


Are you running the NSR Mezzer at the same travel on the same bike as the RRT?


----------



## jake lecluse (Dec 24, 2021)

Yes both at 150mmm


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

jake lecluse said:


> 4. NSR Racing Treatment. New SKF wipers, New air seals,B ushing Calibration, NSR-RACING Cartridge kit & Custom tune
> 
> I have had an RRT Mezzer and now run an NSR Mezzer and Dorado. In my experience the RRT Mezzer provided better small bump sensitivity, increased traction & midstroke support.



Nsr mezzer....which one is better in which regards...nsr or RRT?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

springs said:


> Are you running the NSR Mezzer at the same travel on the same bike as the RRT?



Do you mean the rrt offered better Performance than the Off the shelf mezzer or better than the nsr tuned mezzer?


----------



## TrailBlaza (Sep 2, 2008)

Moosedriver said:


> Chain Reaction Cycles has a Mezzer Pro sale going on, 27.5 models for $514 USD. 29ers are showing out of stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a good deal. Does Hayes still sell lowers for the fork? If you have a 27.5 and 29er you can easily convert between the two for $180?


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Does rulezman actually use a Tuning Rebound- or compression PISTON ,that He Made himself or is it only shims,seals and bushings?


----------



## KWJP (Feb 23, 2018)

Questions for Mezzer owners. Since it was released, have any thing on Mezzer pro been changed or revised? I am considering trying this fork, but I want to figure out if the latest version is significantly improved from the initial version. 

Thank you.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KWJP said:


> Questions for Mezzer owners. Since it was released, have any thing on Mezzer pro been changed or revised? I am considering trying this fork, but I want to figure out if the latest version is significantly improved from the initial version.
> 
> Thank you.


They softened the rebound damping by one shim, they added bleed screws to the lowers and changed the stickers.

That's about all.


----------



## KWJP (Feb 23, 2018)

Dougal said:


> They softened the rebound damping by one shim, they added bleed screws to the lowers and changed the stickers.
> 
> That's about all.


Thank you, Dougal!


----------



## Boissal (Aug 24, 2021)

Dougal said:


> They softened the rebound damping by one shim, they added bleed screws to the lowers and changed the stickers.
> 
> That's about all.


I posted about this a couple weeks ago after receiving a new Mezzers manufactured summer 2022. There seems to be a bulging section of the lowers which wasn't there in previous models. About halfway down the leg, a slightly larger diameter for about 1". You know anything about this Dougal? I can try and add a pic but it's fairly subtle.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Boissal said:


> I posted about this a couple weeks ago after receiving a new Mezzers manufactured summer 2022. There seems to be a bulging section of the lowers which wasn't there in previous models. About halfway down the leg, a slightly larger diameter for about 1". You know anything about this Dougal? I can try and add a pic but it's fairly subtle.


There isn't any change there. I've had them side by side and measured.
The bulges were there in 2019. That's why the one piece stickers wrinkled.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> Does rulezman actually use a Tuning Rebound- or compression PISTON ,that He Made himself or is it only shims,seals and bushings?


Without anyone opening a damper to have a look there isn't any confirmation one way or the other. He has never mentioned pistons, only friction reduction and tuning.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Dougal said:


> There isn't any change there. I've had them side by side and measured.
> The bulges were there in 2019. That's why the one piece stickers wrinkled.


Well that is anticlimactic.

I was hoping for a secret air pocket or some special oil bypass. Maybe something like a swat storage system for snacks?


----------



## boostinmini (Jan 29, 2013)

Any one have a expert damper to sell that has upgraded to the pro?

Would need compression and rebound and knobs.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Dougal said:


> There isn't any change there. I've had them side by side and measured.
> The bulges were there in 2019. That's why the one piece stickers wrinkled.


Definitely a change in the lowers. Currently don't have a new one here to measure but have pictures. As I recall it's more than 1mm in diameter where the bushings sit.


----------



## romulin (Apr 23, 2017)

bansaiman said:


> Does rulezman actually use a Tuning Rebound- or compression PISTON ,that He Made himself or is it only shims,seals and bushings?


Can't wait to crack that thing open and compare with the stock as I have both here.
Also thought of dropping the stock damper into the golden fork for a ride comparison.

It might possibly be a different piston since - 5 LSC is the only usable setting (also the recommended one) 

Odoslané z S59Pro pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

lukam said:


> Definitely a change in the lowers. Currently don't have a new one here to measure but have pictures. As I recall it's more than 1mm in diameter where the bushings sit.
> View attachment 2008414
> View attachment 2008413


Are we supposed to detect a visual difference in slider diameter between these photos?
Or something?
I'm not seeing it.
The forks are held a different angles.
The forks are different distances from the camera.
There are no visible measuring devices in the photos.
Tell me what I'm missing, please.
=sParty


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Sorry For the little off-topic.

Where can I buy/ sell used MTB parts on Australian MTB Forums / Markets?


----------



## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Just wanted to give Hayes USA props  for the fast CSU service for my Mezzer Expert...only took a few days and is on the way back and the responded to my request in one business day!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lukam said:


> Definitely a change in the lowers. Currently don't have a new one here to measure but have pictures. As I recall it's more than 1mm in diameter where the bushings sit.
> View attachment 2008414
> View attachment 2008413


Measure them. They're exactly the same.
I know because I have.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Measure them. They're exactly the same.
> I know because I have.


Ok.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

lukam said:


> Ok.
> 
> View attachment 2008620
> 
> ...


Great post! 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Brodybro29 (May 10, 2021)

We


lukam said:


> Ok.
> 
> View attachment 2008620
> 
> ...


We can actually see the small bump by eye


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Perhaps this will clear it up. 
27" and 29" are different castings and always have been. That's why the 29" fork weighs more.

Go compare 27" RH to RH and LH to LH. No difference. Same with 29" RH to RH and LH to LH. They have not changed.


----------



## lukam (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok , better now?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lukam said:


> Ok , better now?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2008645
> ...


Are you comparing right to right and left to left? What's your casting date?

The last batch of Mezzer I had through were the same as my LE.


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Are you comparing right to right and left to left? What's your casting date?
> 
> The last batch of Mezzer I had through were the same as my LE.


I have two Mezzer 29 lowers, MY20 I think.

Both are the same diameter left/right when measured between the A and the N.

One fork is 43.85mm and the other is 43.93mm.



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## stingray5 (Sep 8, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Are you comparing right to right and left to left? What's your casting date?
> 
> The last batch of Mezzer I had through were the same as my LE.


Why would there be any diference between right and left leg diameter?


----------



## CCS86 (Jan 6, 2020)

stingray5 said:


> Why would there be any diference between right and left leg diameter?


I'm not seeing that on my fork. But one leg has to deal with the caliper forces, so some asymmetry wouldn't be out of place. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

2020/9/17 - Left: 43.9
Right: 43.9

2022/1/20 - Left: 45.3
Right: 45.3

Both 29ers.

I tried to get right in the center of the N on each measurement, but might have been slightly off while getting the pictures taken.


----------



## stingray5 (Sep 8, 2020)

CCS86 said:


> I'm not seeing that on my fork. But one leg has to deal with the caliper forces, so some asymmetry wouldn't be out of place.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


That is true  But has anyone actually seen example of this on an actual production forks?


----------



## Zibby (Feb 3, 2019)

How can you measure exactly the external diameter of the lower legs? They are tapered inside/outside between the bushings.


----------



## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I wish I still had the lowers I swapped off, I tossed them when I was cleaning out the garage not long ago (at least I think), I'll measure if I did keep them and can find them. They had the issues with bushing play/slop, it did seem to get progressively worse as well. They were from the first run that went out. The ones I replaced them with did seem slightly different, but I never really examined them that closely. 

I know people who had early, pre-production runs like the silver ones you've seen floating around. They didn't have bushing issues from what I understand, so it's possible the early production runs were out of spec, but pre-production and those that came a few months after were fine.


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

foggnm said:


> Just wanted to give Hayes USA props  for the fast CSU service for my Mezzer Expert...only took a few days and is on the way back and the responded to my request in one business day!


Have you ridden both the expert and the pro? I’m considering going expert and buying the irt chamber to have a slightly more simple fork. Just not sure how the damper in the expert is.


----------



## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

megablue said:


> Have you ridden both the expert and the pro? I’m considering going expert and buying the irt chamber to have a slightly more simple fork. Just not sure how the damper in the expert is.


IRT price jumped from $50-->$120 making it not such a great value anymore...


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

JK-47 said:


> IRT price jumped from $50-->$120 making it not such a great value anymore...











Tune Kit - 37mm Mezzer Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) Assembly


Compatible with Mezzer Pro and Mezzer Expert. Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) allows for advanced spring tuning by independently adjusting air pressures in the beginning and end stroke. IRT technology creates a secondary positive air spring that affects only the middle to end stroke of the fork. This...




hayesbicycle.com





Isn’t this the only part that’s needed or is there something more?


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

megablue said:


> Tune Kit - 37mm Mezzer Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) Assembly
> 
> 
> Compatible with Mezzer Pro and Mezzer Expert. Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) allows for advanced spring tuning by independently adjusting air pressures in the beginning and end stroke. IRT technology creates a secondary positive air spring that affects only the middle to end stroke of the fork. This...
> ...


Ya that's the piece


----------



## megablue (Jul 20, 2020)

006_007 said:


> Ya that's the piece


Hm wonder why manitou has it much cheaper than anyone else right now


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

The something more is not to screw the air cap on to tight. My only complaint about the conversion is finger tight on the cap is not finger tight to loosen. I have to bludgeon it with a plastic tire iron or something to get it to unwind. Also if I remember correctly, I had to slow my rebound down a bit after the air conversion.


----------



## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

I use an oring on the lip of the air cap for an easier removal. Think it's about 2mm thick, not sure on the diameter but have it snug on the cap. It gives the cap a snug fit and makes removal a breeze. Got the orings at Harbor Freight a few years ago. A variety pack was like $2.


----------



## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

i used to make tools for people when they were harder to get this was in the days of mattocs and heres the dims and stuff i used to make them to with photos mmc engineer


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Slot in the cassette tool is supposed to be 1/2" so it can be used on the Manitou forks with 1/2" damper shafts. You'll need to deburr that slot really well so it can't scratch.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

My lower air cap has somehow gotten stuck on and won't come off. I can turn it but need pliers because it is so tight. Nonetheless, it doesn't unthread. I have a feeling it is just spinning the locknut assembly/shaft. Anyone have a solution to get this off?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Have someone compress the fork (or use ratchet straps) and then try to break it free? Perhaps loading the spring in the casting will provide enough friction to keep it from spinning.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dtheo said:


> My lower air cap has somehow gotten stuck on and won't come off. I can turn it but need pliers because it is so tight. Nonetheless, it doesn't unthread. I have a feeling it is just spinning the locknut assembly/shaft. Anyone have a solution to get this off?


Take the IRT out, remove the piston o-ring, reinstall the IRT and use the IRT valve to pressurise the air-spring. That may give it enough resistance to crack it loose.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

For those that love their Manitou's, you might find this enjoyable:


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Vespasianus said:


> For those that love their Manitou's, you might find this enjoyable:


I didn't think I'd find a better looking fork than the 1995 EFC. But that Mezzer with the 95 EFC paint-job is incredible.

Here's a 1995 EFC and the 2015 Mattoc Pro for scale:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BHk4qBDjCRg/


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Dougal said:


> I didn't think I'd find a better looking fork than the 1995 EFC. But that Mezzer with the 95 EFC paint-job is incredible.
> 
> Here's a 1995 EFC and the 2015 Mattoc Pro for scale:
> 
> ...


Agreed. The whole bike looks amazing as well.


----------



## Man3 (Apr 10, 2010)

I've got my new mezzer Pro apart having read the other thread from start to finish whilst I wait for the frame to turn up. Opened it up to check it all over, change travel, lube everything and install a 214 quad ring, i'll also do a damper mod when the replacement shims turn up as I'm only 76kg rtr.... 

Anyway I was checking the tightness of the bushings 1 leg at a time and there's a load of friction there but thought that's maybe down to the wiper seals, so I was going to get them out and try without the seals but compared to other forks (rs and dvo) they're an absolute pig to get out and don't seem to have any kind of lip to get a tyre lever underneath?! Any tips?


----------



## Man3 (Apr 10, 2010)

Scrap that! The tyre lever had too much of a radius to it... Tried a flatter tipped one and it's all good...


----------



## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Man3 said:


> I've got my new mezzer Pro apart having read the other thread from start to finish whilst I wait for the frame to turn up. Opened it up to check it all over, change travel, lube everything and install a 214 quad ring, i'll also do a damper mod when the replacement shims turn up as I'm only 76kg rtr....
> 
> Anyway I was checking the tightness of the bushings 1 leg at a time and there's a load of friction there but thought that's maybe down to the wiper seals, so I was going to get them out and try without the seals but compared to other forks (rs and dvo) they're an absolute pig to get out and don't seem to have any kind of lip to get a tyre lever underneath?! Any tips?


Bushing allignmemt and burnishing Brings ultimate smoothness tobevery fork 



__
http://instagr.am/p/CZiatJPoHI1/


----------

