# Dirt jumping How To Question



## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

Hey all, I recently bought a Cove Shocker for some DH and DJ action. It feels great on the mountain, but in the park, I'm feeling unstable while airborne. I've been watching some vids on technique- attack position, lead with the hands, follow with feet, keep loose (not static), and am trying to implement that, but there are still times when I hit a jump and start rotating sideways or something. I was wondering if any of you have any tips on taking off stable, staying that way while airborne, good landings, and most importantly, mid air correction techniques.

I've been searching the forums for some tips, but haven't been able to find anything.

Thanks!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Strongbrown said:


> Hey all, I recently bought a Cove Shocker for some DH and DJ action. It feels great on the mountain, but in the park, I'm feeling unstable while airborne. I've been watching some vids on technique- attack position, lead with the hands, follow with feet, keep loose (not static), and am trying to implement that, but there are still times when I hit a jump and start rotating sideways or something. I was wondering if any of you have any tips on taking off stable, staying that way while airborne, good landings, and most importantly, mid air correction techniques.
> 
> I've been searching the forums for some tips, but haven't been able to find anything.
> 
> Thanks!


have you tried jumping a hard tail dirt jumper or bmx bike before ?


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## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

I owned a bmx as a kid but never did any dirt jumping- just home made ramps with wood planks and bricks.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Strongbrown said:


> Hey all, I recently bought a Cove Shocker for some DH and DJ action. It feels great on the mountain, but in the park, I'm feeling unstable while airborne. I've been watching some vids on technique- attack position, lead with the hands, follow with feet, keep loose (not static), and am trying to implement that, but there are still times when I hit a jump and start rotating sideways or something. I was wondering if any of you have any tips on taking off stable, staying that way while airborne, good landings, and most importantly, mid air correction techniques.
> 
> I've been searching the forums for some tips, but haven't been able to find anything.
> 
> Thanks!





Strongbrown said:


> I owned a bmx as a kid but never did any dirt jumping- just home made ramps with wood planks and bricks.


I'm not sure what type of jumps you're trying to hit at the "park" . . . but your DH bike is not necesarily the right tool for the job. MTB dirt jump riders are going to either ride dirt-jump-specific hard tails with 80-100mm travel fork, or a slopestyle bike with very stiff short travel in the back and a 100mm-120mm fork.

Someone with more DH experience should correct me . . . . but from what i know, with your DH bike, you will want to focus on pre-loading your supension. This basically means stomping down with your feet before you hit the jump so that the shock is on the way out as you're going up the jump. If you just hit the jump like normal, the rear end will sink into the face of the jump then buck you weird right as you're leaving the lip.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

It sounds as though you might be going off the lip off balance, not certain but if you do go off a lip with more pressure in one area (hand/foot/both) you can project like you are talking about. with a DH bike or any suspension really, the right dampening and rebound are important also. 

If it is just on specific jumps, you might have to adjust to the jump. I have found there are certain ones I HAVE to approach different or I do go off screwy. Not a great example but think about how you would approach a hip. You have to set up and execute quite a bit differently than a straight jump. Another example, trying to stay low or race/scrub a more vertical lip/jump. That approach and execution varies quite differently than trying to boost the same jump.


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## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys. The place I've been learning at has everything from 6" kickers to 40'+ gap jumps. There are lots of double jumps set up on a hillside, so it's pretty flowy and has room for a learning curve. I can feel that my bike is "too much" for this application. It's heavy and the supple suspension soaks up a lot, so depending on if I pre-load it or just ride it changes my jump substantially. The more I try it, the better I get obviously, but I'm just scared to go too big without any knowledge of mid air disaster avoidance. 

I have an older 2006 Giant VT1 all mountain bike with less travel (5" front, 6.75" rear) air shocks, but I've always felt like it wasn't durable enough to take jumping, like it'd brake underneath me. Is this a foolish concern?

Thanks again!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Strongbrown said:


> . . . . I can feel that my bike is "too much" for this application. It's heavy and the supple suspension soaks up a lot, . .


i suggest borrowing a dirt jumper hard tail from someone and try that out for a day .....


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## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

cmc4130 said:


> i suggest borrowing a dirt jumper hard tail from someone and try that out for a day .....


I'd be interested in trying that out to feel how it changes things up.

Bike, location, and experience aside, I'm still interested in hearing some feedback on mid air correction techniques you all have. I've watched a bunch of videos on it, but I feel like I'm missing something.

Thanks again!


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## tootall (May 23, 2005)

I know what you're talking about, that slightly uneasy feeling in the air. I'm just learning to jump, and it doesn't always happen, but when it does it's definitely uncomfortable. I think it probably has something to do with coming off the jump unbalanced, pulling up slightly sideways or something like that. Bike fit/setup could also be a contributor, my current bike I believe is too small so maybe that is playing a part. Too wide/too narrow handlebars also come to mind. Probably just have to keep practicing and get more comfortable. Best part is unless you're majorly tweaked out and off balance 90% of the time you should be able to ride a slightly sideways landing out, even if you didn't do it on purpose. Just stay loose and on the bars and pedals and it'll be ok.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Strongbrown said:


> . . . there are still times when I hit a jump and start rotating sideways or something. . . .





Strongbrown said:


> . . . I'm still interested in hearing some feedback on mid air correction techniques you all have. . . .


 I dont really know how to explain it, because straightening out for landing is kind of instinctual. Sometimes you hit a jump weird for whatever reason and are immediately like 'oh shhhhhht !' but somehow manage to straighten out enough to not crash. That's rare though. Normally if you're in control of the take-off, you're in control the whole time.

Maybe part of it is your jump-off-the-lip technique itself. Make sure you're not trying to do the two-wheel-bunnyhop off a lip. It needs to be front end first going up, then lifting the rear to level out. Stay centered over your cranks, not leaning forward on your hands. Check out this thread for rest of this discussion:
*Pull up or push down bars on transition of lip?*http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=109278

I still think it's your rear shock that is throwing you weird. I've jumped a long time on bmx and hardtails and the first day I had on a DH bike in Colorado, it took a LOT of getting used to in order to hit jumps correctly. I can't imagine starting from scratch with a DH bike.

Maybe the video of Chase Hawk "How to Motowhip" might help... cuz that's a trick where you deliberately get sideways ! vimeo.com/2986596


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Another new jumper here - but from reading your post and seeing you speak of leading with your hands and following with your feet (riding on twos), i'm going to assume you have seen the Fluidride Like A Pro DVD. Watch the section on jumping where they are talking about foot pressure. It's all there. 

If you haven't seen the DVD, get it. While geared more towards freeride, the basics discussed are totally relavent to dirt jumping - boosting, scrubbing and squashing.

Edit - I was reading the thread cmc linked to on pink bike and partially thought I was responding it.


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## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys! This plus those links have given me some good insight! 
@Jason B. Yes, I've seen the dvd. It's a good one!

So from what I'm gathering, a lot of the success of the jump is determined before I even leave the ground from positioning, take off, etc. which is comforting in a way. With the mystery uneasy rotating feeling, it seems like if I take control of the gyroscopics of the jump, I can control my trajectory and landing a lot easier. Pushing forward and/or twisting the handlebars (ala moto-whipping) both would counter the uneasy "falling over sideways" motion. Am I on track here?

I'm excited to go put this to the test! Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated!


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## Monk_Knight (Aug 1, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


> i suggest borrowing a dirt jumper hard tail from someone and try that out for a day .....


Depends on the type of jumps you are riding. If they are dirt jump style (with steep takeoffs, steep landings) then a DH bike will ride pretty poorly on them. But if they are big bike jumps (high speed, big sender takeoffs with long landings with long runouts), then a hardtail is not going to help.

As for technique, the best thing I can say is to try to make sure that you hit the jump, rather than the jump hitting you. That is, instead of just riding your bike straight into the lip and letting it pop you, really try to push the bike into the lip... try to really make your wheels follow the contour of the jump instead of simply bashing into it like a speedbump.

Also practice bunnyhopping (with flat pedals) on flat ground. The motion that you use (shifting body weight, lifting up the front wheel first then bringing the back up to match it) is very similar to what you use when hitting a jump.


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## Strongbrown (Apr 15, 2010)

Monk_Knight said:


> Depends on the type of jumps you are riding. If they are dirt jump style (with steep takeoffs, steep landings) then a DH bike will ride pretty poorly on them. But if they are big bike jumps (high speed, big sender takeoffs with long landings with long runouts), then a hardtail is not going to help.
> 
> Also practice bunnyhopping (with flat pedals) on flat ground. The motion that you use (shifting body weight, lifting up the front wheel first then bringing the back up to match it) is very similar to what you use when hitting a jump.


I'll keep practicing the bunny hops. I've been doing those for 25 years though, so I'm familiar with the motion.

Some of the jumps are 'dirt jump style' and some are 'big bike jumps' (and berm jumps, step ups, kickers, hucks, etc), so it all applies.


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## Rally Blue (Apr 13, 2004)

*Practice*

While I agree with most of the above comments - the best thing is just to practice. I rode Moto for a long time and had the same issue of letting the bike jump me rather than jumping the bike. When the bike went off screwey.... I was just in for the ride. Eventually you will figure out what to do to counteract the bad movement.

Best thing is to stay loose! Very hard to do, and even if you think you are, you most likely aren't.


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

I rode my downhill bike on the local dirt jump park for a year and what a lot of these people are saying about how you need a short travel bike is rediculous. I have a hardtail Specialized p1 and hit the same jumps ive hit with my 8 inch travel Iron Horse Yakuza (just not the drops  ).

There are generally 2 types of lines, BMX lines and MTB lines.

BMX line is jumps that are relatively steep landings. The problem is the DH bikes are so much longer and bigger, and get less air, so the airs feel awkard and the rapid change in angle is difficult for a 40+ lbs bike.

MTB lines are less steep, usually very difficult for a bmx to ride.

When u hit the jumps you need to preload your suspension and keep centered on the bike. Pull up on the front end when u hit the lip and push the back end into the lip. Spot your landing and direct your head and hips to the direction you want to land. Big bikes can get away with a lot on the landing because of the travel, but you typically want to adjust the pitch of the bike to match the slope of the landing.

Staying loose on your bike is a very 'loose' term. WTF does that even mean? How can you have a loose position and grip and still move 40 lbs quickly?? Pretty hard, I think a better description would be to flow with the terrain and the bike, more than just ride loose. Just dont be rigid as a 2x4.

I noticed I that rebound on the rear shock has a huge impact on hitting jumps, you may want to mess with it a good amount.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

While At Rome said:


> I noticed I that rebound on the rear shock has a huge impact on hitting jumps, you may want to mess with it a good amount.


if a rider were to learn to jump on a hardtail, a good amount of time (to use your words) tweaking your suspension would not be required. If using suspension, the rider needs to decide why a jump went bad - technique or a bad suspension setting. I bet a dollar to donuts (what ever that means) that most will blame the suspension and not the technique (or lack of).

Just because you can do a jump on an 8" bike does not mean it is the best way to *learn* to properly jump. With a suspension bike, much of the riders input (foot pressure) is absorbed in the suspension.

Suspension bikes also have all that cushion for the landings and as you mention, you can get by with bad landings. Properly learning on a proper bike might help prevent some of those bad landings by replacing luck with skill.

My 2psi on it anyway, that, another 58psi and a new tube might get you riding again.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Monk_Knight said:


> . . .
> . . . That is, instead of just riding your bike straight into the lip and letting it pop you, really try to push the bike into the lip... *try to really make your wheels follow the contour of the jump* instead of simply bashing into it like a speedbump.
> 
> . . . .


that is an excellent way of putting it.

in the same way that you compress down into a trampoline before boosting out of it . . . use the whole curved surface of that jump to boost out of. it's not like you're just riding up the face then bunnyhopping off the top (which is what i did back in the day when all we had was flat-bank ditches !!).


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

Jason B. said:


> if a rider were to learn to jump on a hardtail, a good amount of time (to use your words) tweaking your suspension would not be required. If using suspension, the rider needs to decide why a jump went bad - technique or a bad suspension setting. I bet a dollar to donuts (what ever that means) that most will blame the suspension and not the technique (or lack of).
> 
> Just because you can do a jump on an 8" bike does not mean it is the best way to *learn* to properly jump. With a suspension bike, much of the riders input (foot pressure) is absorbed in the suspension.
> 
> ...


I know, i never learned how to jump on a long travel bike, i raced bmx and rode DJ 20 inches for 7 years before i got my first 26 inch bike, and havent looked back since.

When i swapped from BMX to my DH bike jumping was quiet an adjustment, and technique change was needed especially on the trannys.

Even if you are a pro, a unproperly tuned suspension can really hurt your riding. IE running 40 psi shock pressure when recommended is 70.


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## JohnByrd (Jan 25, 2004)

lol at the advice on this thread.


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

JohnByrd said:


> lol at the advice on this thread.


Figured a response like that from someone from West Virginia.

But looking as you ride XC on a kona stuff with flats, a bmx seat, a Marz DJ fork, and im willing to bet u can beat aaron gwin down any track on it too, im sure ill take your posts seriously.


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## JohnByrd (Jan 25, 2004)

actually i live in japan and ride parks 99% of the time. 

thanks for playing noob.


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## michaelblade (Oct 18, 2006)

*Dj Specific Frames*

Why Do They Make Dirt Jump Bikes?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

michaelblade said:


> Why Do They Make Dirt Jump Bikes?


not sure where you're coming from with this question . . . . but check out videos on sites like plussizebmx.com and you'll see what riders are doing on DJ specific bikes.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


> not sure where you're coming from with this question . . . . but check out videos on sites like plussizebmx.com and you'll see what riders are doing on DJ specific bikes.


Pretty sure he was meaning there is a reason people buy dirt jumps to jump on rather than downhill bikes.


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## Twisted1 (Aug 24, 2010)

When your in the air and start rotating side ways push down on pedals the opposite way and you'll straighten back up


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## burn (Jun 6, 2011)

Practice bunny hops. I have a friend learning to jump and he does the same thing with tilting a bit in the air. When he does bunny hops, they're usually okay but every once in a while he tilts on a bunny hop. Guessing he pulls up on the bars a little different so it causes some balance issues. With a DH bike, it is heavier and the suspension does come into play so just continue to practice man.


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