# Bar width and shoulder pain



## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Has anyone else gone back to narrower bars for general trail riding? I’m a little over 6’3” and almost 195lbs and had been on 800mm bars for a couple seasons and started experiencing quite a bit of pain in my right shoulder on even relatively quick rides. I rented a bike with 780’s and it was weird feeling but a lot less pain. I’m now running 760 with zero pain regardless of how long I ride for. Just wondering if that’s a common experience…

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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I’ve always been told to get in a standard push-up position, measure the distance from the outside of each hand and that’s the number to run your bar width at. 


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Too wide of bars commonly cause shoulder and wrist pain. I'm tall and 750ish is about right for me.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

ttengineer said:


> I’ve always been told to get in a standard push-up position, measure the distance from the outside of each hand and that’s the number to run your bar width at.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That would be 850 or so for me 😳


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I’m not super tall but I have very broad shoulders. I run 800. I should shrink down to 780 but I rather enjoy the slightly wider bar. 

I used to have standard grips that caused a lot of hand pain though. Once I moved to an extremely large diameter grip all my issues went away. I’d love 36-37mm diameter but I’m pretty happy with my Meaty Paws at 35mm diameter. 


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

yzedf said:


> That would be 850 or so for me


Damn boy! I bet suit fittings are a blast for you. 


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

ttengineer said:


> I’ve always been told to get in a standard push-up position, measure the distance from the outside of each hand and that’s the number to run your bar width at.


this is nonsense. Lee McCormack admits to proliferating this baseless theory and says he realizes it's nonsense now. your pushup stance has, at best, a coincidental relationship to your handlebar width.

anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow. I cannot hurt your body to go narrower. at a certain point, riding stability and confidence goes down with a narrower bar, but injuring your arms and shoulders from an excessively wide bar is arguably worse.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> this is nonsense. Lee McCormack admits to proliferating this baseless theory and says he realizes it's nonsense now. your pushup stance has, at best, a coincidental relationship to your handlebar width.
> 
> anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow. I cannot hurt your body to go narrower. at a certain point, riding stability and confidence goes down with a narrower bar, but injuring your arms and shoulders from an excessively wide bar is arguably worse.


Also, I think the injury/pain from running bars too wide comes from pushing and pulling the bars, moreso than "general riding." Of course, that's dependent on how much pumping and hopping you do in your "general riding."

But I suppose the same things that cause injury from rowing can do it to a more "static" or passive rider. You are "weaker" with your hands further apart and that places more strain on shoulder joints.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> this is nonsense. Lee McCormack admits to proliferating this baseless theory and says he realizes it's nonsense now. your pushup stance has, at best, a coincidental relationship to your handlebar width.
> 
> anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow. I cannot hurt your body to go narrower. at a certain point, riding stability and confidence goes down with a narrower bar, but injuring your arms and shoulders from an excessively wide bar is arguably worse.


Eh, I think it holds some merit. 

I liken it to an “athletic stance” when playing sports. Everyone will stand differently but you will get in a position that works for your body. 

Everyone knows how to do a push-up and everyone knows that “sweet spot” for comfort and stability. A natural alignment if you will. 

Certainly I think you can adjust from there but I think it’s a solid starting point that will definitely get most folks if not all in the ball park. 

Edit:using the calculation found online for men, multiply your height in mm by 0.44 should give you your exact ideal bar width. For me that’s right at ~804. So when I do a push-up my hands measured out to 785mm. 1.5cm difference than what I like to run. 


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

The bars on my hardtail I measured using the pushup position and I've never changed them since. They feel perfect actually, so it worked out for me. 🤷‍♂️

It makes perfect sense to measure your handle bars based on body mechanics.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

If I measured my handlebar by "pushup" position, I'd have a 500mm wide bar.


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

ttengineer said:


> Eh, I think it holds some merit.
> 
> I liken it to an “athletic stance” when playing sports. Everyone will stand differently but you will get in a position that works for your body.
> 
> ...


Not a huge fan of either method. 812mm with pushup method. 804mm with .44 height method. Current preferred width is 740. Height 6'1".


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Doesn't work, at all, for me. I'm 6'2", use an 800 bar on my enduro bike, and a 760 on my trail bike and hardtail. My pushup position is wider than either.


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> Doesn't work, at all, for me. I'm 6'2", use an 800 bar on my enduro bike, and a 760 on my trail bike and hardtail. My pushup position is wider than either.


Makes sense to have wider bars for bigger hits. I'm not even sure I'd fit thru a couple of trees with 800mm bars on at least one trail I ride.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

I'm skinny with narrow shoulders, and I ride 780mm because that's what feels good to me. Haven't experienced shoulder pain so far, and I do some pretty long rides on this bike, including multi day bikepacking trips.


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## mnguyen1224 (May 11, 2017)

I was experiencing significant shoulder pain which I thought was shoulder impingement syndrome. I’m only 5’6 and was running 780 bars. I only realized I should cut my bars down because I noticed I had zero pain riding my dirt jumper which only has 710 bars (and I often hold even narrower anyways). I tried playing with bar width on the MTB and was able to ride a whole DH day with zero shoulder pain after probably 2 years of basically riding with a dead left shoulder and chronic pain. Cut my bars to 740 and never looked back! I’m a big believer in bar width being your strongest push-up width. I can feel way more strength coming from my lats vs through my shoulder joints now during heavy DH runs. I highly recommend trying the narrow bar life.


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## Sucker Punch (9 mo ago)

One thing to consider is also your wrist angle on the bars and how that angle might compromise your shoulders. Wrists naturally want to be in a more neutral position. Bars with a 7 or 8 degree backsweep force your wrists in a position they don't want to be in. This in turn forces your shoulders to overcompensate. I switched to a higher backsweep a while back and it was a huge help. The SQ Lab bars at 12 degrees are so much more comfortable for me. And I kept the same 760mm width I've been running for years and kept the same stem length as well.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm 6'5" and run 800mm on my enduro bike, 790mm on my trail bike and 760mm on my DJ. All of them are comfortable.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

I can always run my hands inbound of the edge of the grips when climbing, which is when most of the time is spent riding. Maybe it is an issue with the sweep or stack on the bars?


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

mack_turtle said:


> this is nonsense. Lee McCormack admits to proliferating this baseless theory and says he realizes it's nonsense now. your pushup stance has, at best, a coincidental relationship to your handlebar width.
> 
> anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow. I cannot hurt your body to go narrower. at a certain point, riding stability and confidence goes down with a narrower bar, but injuring your arms and shoulders from an excessively wide bar is arguably worse.


This. I also wanted to add that McCormack would absolutely tell you to go narrower if you are feeling pain, and to not ignore the pain, as he has written a bunch about his mistakes and permanent shoulder damage (from ignoring pain and biomechanics doing stuff like bench pressing). Some more here: My shoulders hurt. Are my bars too wide? - Lee Likes Bikes

I don't know what McCormack's current handlebar width calculation is, but the problem is the calculators don't work very well if you are tall, because they recommend bar widths beyond 800mm, and that starts to not be very practical, and hints that maybe the calculators aren't that good an idea at all.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

mnguyen1224 said:


> I was experiencing significant shoulder pain which I thought was shoulder impingement syndrome. I’m only 5’6 and was running 780 bars. I only realized I should cut my bars down because I noticed I had zero pain riding my dirt jumper which only has 710 bars (and I often hold even narrower anyways). I tried playing with bar width on the MTB and was able to ride a whole DH day with zero shoulder pain after probably 2 years of basically riding with a dead left shoulder and chronic pain. Cut my bars to 740 and never looked back! I’m a big believer in bar width being your strongest push-up width. I can feel way more strength coming from my lats vs through my shoulder joints now during heavy DH runs. I highly recommend trying the narrow bar life.


Yeah, strongest pushup width makes some sense, because you can do different types of pushups to target different muscle groups. You're definitely stronger doing pushups with your hands closer together.

I am not at my strongest with 780mm bars. I do like them, though, except through the 790mm tree gates, many of which have been bypassed in the last couple of years with the popularity of wide bars. I have no shoulder pain while riding.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Except you're not just pushing on bars.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

I think my bars on my new TBv4 are 760mm. I haven’t measured them yet. They seem ok. They’re wider than my old bars so I’m gonna keep running them. My old bars were too narrow anyway. I just get numb hands so I bought new thicker grips. I’ll also raise my bars one spacer and see if that helps too.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

It sure can but depends on you body. I'm 5'11 but wide shoulders and arms and 800 is super comfy. I can do 780 as well- for hours. Below that feels uncomfortable now. I did 810 and the was starting to feel weird so I went back to 800.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ttengineer said:


> I’ve always been told to get in a standard push-up position, measure the distance from the outside of each hand and that’s the number to run your bar width at.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sweet, I should be using 550mm bars. Need some more great rules of thumb like this!


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

per Lee's advice I went with a 12 degree backsweep due to some tendonitis in my elbows. It has helped. I run 780 width, but 760 was great with my previous set of bars. Can't imagine running over 800. I'm short but have broad shoulders.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Sweet, I should be using 550mm bars. Need some more great rules of thumb like this!


Unless you’re a child or little person I find it hard to believe that a standard push-up position is 550mm for any grown male. 

To be clear, a proper push-up should have your hands slightly wider than your shoulders. 

That’s only 21.5”. 

Using the formula above what’s .44 x (you height in mm) ?


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

For me I felt like anything over 760mm results in too much understeer, feeling vague. I’m hoping I didn’t go too short at 740, as it does tend to oversteer now, but think I prefer that.

my hunch is if you go wider than a certain point it’ll understeer, go more narrow it’ll oversteer.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

yep, 5'9.5" here and last set of bars I left stock at 780mm and started to develop shoulder pain. Trimmed then down to 760mm like my other bike and problem solved.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

I have seen some pretty stupid stuff on Lee's Youtube, and avoid his channel. Maybe he is not the best source of bike fit info. Some Youtubers need to come up with silly recommendations to get likes on their channel.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

To the best of my knowledge, he was publishing books long before YouTube. With that said, I find that generic fit formulas almost always fail.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

AEyogi said:


> I have seen some pretty stupid stuff on Lee's Youtube, and avoid his channel. Maybe he is not the best source of bike fit info. Some Youtubers need to come up with silly recommendations to get likes on their channel.


Lee literally wrote the book on mountain bike skills. I don't agree with everything he says about fit but give him some credit.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Everyone is built different. Some shorter people have really wide shoulders. I'm 6'7 with average shoulder width for my size. I fit in the same width car seat as most people. My elbows are naturally slightly bent in all the time, where as some people naturally stand with their elbows in a hyper extended position. The way I choose handle bars is to find all the ones with the 35mm rise I like for height, and just hold them in the air like I'm riding. Not installed, just hold them. This way I find the bars with the most comfortable rise and sweep. I won't buy online (unless I've already tried them in person) and I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE BRAND NAME! Just go to different bike shops and feel them in person. I also notice right away how wide my hands are comfortably apart. On my current handle bars that number is 768mm, and that is where I cut them. The diameter was a little smaller than my existing stem, so I bought a new stem. The handle bar fit is priority not a few mm on bar diameter. Once I had made my choice I noticed they are RaceFace Atlas bars. Are they good handle bars? They fit me perfect so they are the best bars I have owned.


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## sorebutt (Dec 23, 2020)

Sucker Punch said:


> One thing to consider is also your wrist angle on the bars and how that angle might compromise your shoulders. Wrists naturally want to be in a more neutral position. Bars with a 7 or 8 degree backsweep force your wrists in a position they doesn't want to be in. This in turn forces your shoulders to overcompensate. I switched to a higher backsweep a while back and it was a huge help. The SQ Lab bars at 12 degrees are so much more comfortable for me. And I kept the same 760mm width I've been running for years and kept the same stem length as well.


 100% agree with this


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## sorebutt (Dec 23, 2020)

Sucker Punch said:


> One thing to consider is also your wrist angle on the bars and how that angle might compromise your shoulders. Wrists naturally want to be in a more neutral position. Bars with a 7 or 8 degree backsweep force your wrists in a position they doesn't want to be in. This in turn forces your shoulders to overcompensate. I switched to a higher backsweep a while back and it was a huge help. The SQ Lab bars at 12 degrees are so much more comfortable for me. And I kept the same 760mm width I've been running for years and kept the same stem length as well.


100% agree with this


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I thought the proper pushup arm position was determined preferred handlebar width.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

mack_turtle said:


> anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow.


Agreed, 
Based on shoulder width, I should ride 400mm wide road bar and 750mm mtb bar. 
In reality, I feel great on 350mm wide road bar and 710mm mtb bar. 
Even at 35cm wide road bar, I have no problem breathing and controlling my bike. So I roll my eyes when someone say 400mm bar is too narrow and it cause them problems.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

sacrefrancais said:


> Makes sense to have wider bars for bigger hits. I'm not even sure I'd fit thru a couple of trees with 800mm bars on at least one trail I ride.


Tight trails and trees are the main reason I cut my bars down to 760. 800 feels awkward too. 6.0 with a neutral ape index.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kapusta said:


> I thought the proper pushup arm position was determined preferred handlebar width.


It's the other way around, proper handlebar width determines preferred pushup width.




Hexsense said:


> In reality, I feel great on 350mm wide road bar



Dang, who even makes 35cm bars?


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## Sucker Punch (9 mo ago)

This is kind of what I meant about wrists (and hands) wanting to be in a neutral position. When I climb up a fireroad and I'm relaxed my hands are more neutral, meaning my thumbs are pointing forward, which bring the elbows in and the shoulders in a more relaxed position. And most of the people I ride with do the same. Once we descend we're gripping the bars with elbows out.

When friends try my bike with the 12 degree bar the first thing they say is how comfortable the bars are.



AEyogi said:


> I can always run my hands inbound of the edge of the grips when climbing, which is when most of the time is spent riding. Maybe it is an issue with the sweep or stack on the bars?


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

J.B. Weld said:


> Dang, who even makes 35cm bars?


Technically, it is listed as 40cm bar, but it's 35cm wide where the shifter clamp is.
It's Enve Ses aero road bar size 40cm. 40cm in drop, 35cm top where the shifter mount.
And I even tilt the shifter inward, so top of two shifter hoods are 28cm apart center to center. Or 33cm apart center to center shifter body where I normally place my hands.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

Also, there are many other 36cm bars:








36cm handlebars - Weight Weenies







weightweenies.starbike.com





And even 33cm bar (measure at the hood):
















X-Wing Aero Handlebar - Weight Weenies







weightweenies.starbike.com


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## baitdragger (Feb 6, 2007)

Dt


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## old_er (Dec 27, 2020)

If you are looking for bar width via formulas you will wind up with the same success as weather forecasters, sometimes they get right.  Your body is unique and your fit is not going to be the same as even someone else the same height as you. Lee McCormack has a lot of experience but he has also published a lot of information that he has later retracted.

You can experiment with bar width with grips that have an open end and slide your controls to different positions to find your ideal width before you break out the hacksaw. Backsweep is another variable especially with riders with wrist injuries and age. I went from 8° backsweep to 10° and it made a nice difference in wrist comfort. If you are fortunate enough to find a bike fitter that works with mtb's and doesn't focus on the formula fit, they should learn you and your riding style. It can fast track the experimenting phase but you still have to ride it and adapt to the adjustments, otherwise you get in the loop of constant adjustment.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

old_er said:


> If you are looking for bar width via formulas you will wind up with the same success as weather forecasters, sometimes they get right.




5 day weather forecasts are correct 90% of the time 🙃


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's the other way around, proper handlebar width determines preferred pushup width.


Isn’t that what I said?


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> I’ve always been told to get in a standard push-up position, measure the distance from the outside of each hand and that’s the number to run your bar width at.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This would assume everyone does pushups correctly. Spoiler: most don't.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kapusta said:


> Isn’t that what I said?




By golly it was. Dyslexia, reading comprehension, drugs, it all adds up....🤐


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Did the nitrous from the co2/pump thread somehow leak into this one?


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## old_er (Dec 27, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> 5 day weather forecasts are correct 90% of the time 🙃


If we take an 18% accuracy rate over five days and total it = 90%


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I never understood these methods (like pushup width) for determining the best way to do something completely different.

If you ever actually find yourself with over half your weight on your hands, with the bar touching your chest, and your legs behind you.... you've got other problems.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

kapusta said:


> I never understood these methods (like pushup width) for determining the best way to do something completely different.
> 
> If you ever actually find yourself with over half your weight on your hands, with the bar touching your chest, and your legs behind you.... you've got other problems.


It’s like standing with your feet slightly wider than shoulder width apart and knees slightly bent (athletic stance). You can react fast in that stance than ankles together and knees locked. 

Same concept with push up position, you can react and maximize body English. 


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

Close your eyes, reach out and grab the bars (no grips, no brakes). 

What’s natural, is always best… life lesson for nearly every question in life.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

ttengineer said:


> It’s like standing with your feet slightly wider than shoulder width apart and knees slightly bent (athletic stance). You can react fast in that stance than ankles together and knees locked.
> 
> Same concept with push up position, you can react and maximize body English.
> 
> ...


Wut?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ttengineer said:


> It’s like standing with your feet slightly wider than shoulder width apart and knees slightly bent (athletic stance). You can react fast in that stance than ankles together and knees locked.
> 
> Same concept with push up position, you can react and maximize body English.
> 
> ...


The problem is going as wide as possible makes the "push up" as easy as possible. What is "comfortable" for a push up usually just corresponds to which muscles you have most developed. I saw guys doing crazy narrow push ups in the army because that's what they had developed, others doing crazy wide because they were much weaker. Wide is the "easiest", but that doesn't tell you jack **** about what bar width works best. If you have reduced pain by going to a shorter bar, that's great, but as a method to determine the width, push up is bullsh*t.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

People are really good at over-complicating simple concepts. 🤣


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

In the time some people spend researching theories or asking on the internet how to determine bar width, they could have figured it out for themselves: Just slide the grips and controls around and see what feels best when... wait for it.... RIDING.

It is no more complicated than that.


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

kapusta said:


> In the time some people spend researching theories or asking on the internet how to determine bar width, they could have figured it out for themselves: Just slide the grips and controls around and see what feels best when... wait for it.... RIDING.
> 
> It is no more complicated than that.


But then what would we talk about? ;-)

I agree though. The only thing I'd add is that if you're starting with say 800mm bars, cut off 10mm at a time and go for a ride until you find your sweet spot.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

sacrefrancais said:


> But then what would we talk about? ;-)
> 
> I agree though. The only thing I'd add is that if you're starting with say 800mm bars, cut off 10mm at a time and go for a ride until you find your sweet spot.


That's how I ended up at 760


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## amoab (9 mo ago)

useless discussion unless you also consider sweep, wide straight bars put unnecessary strain on wrists and shoulders, bar with 8 to 12 degree sweep reduce the strain when combined with correct measured width


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## mtbkr1030 (Jan 27, 2010)

yzedf said:


> Has anyone else gone back to narrower bars for general trail riding? I’m a little over 6’3” and almost 195lbs and had been on 800mm bars for a couple seasons and started experiencing quite a bit of pain in my right shoulder on even relatively quick rides. I rented a bike with 780’s and it was weird feeling but a lot less pain. I’m now running 760 with zero pain regardless of how long I ride for. Just wondering if that’s a common experience… _Admin edit: Photo added for newsletter and social_ _
> View attachment 2004096
> _​


 Yes, I bought a set of 800's and have whittled them down to about 760. The wide width was causing me arm and shoulder problems.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Wow, I feel the other way and I'm pretty short at 5'7'. I've got a long torso and wide shoulders and I love my 800mm bars. My last bike came with 780 bars and I didn't like the feel. Put on an 800mm bar and it felt perfect. Less arm/shoulder pain. As others have said, each person's body is different and it would appear that there's no clear standard for any of this. Use what feels good and if it doesn't feel good, play around with it until it does.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

This timely, experiencing shoulder/neck pain but I'm leaning to a pinch nerve in my neck.

5'8" and had 810, 800, 780, 760 bars on my bikes. I found I preferred 780 bars on all my bikes. 60 yrs old and hurt everywhere, so always searching for comfort. Turned my enduro/park bike into a front and rear coiled plow to deal with arm pump and numb hands, it worked.

Still searching for my "perfect" grips, tried ESI chunkies but a little too fat for me and settled on GE1s but still not 100% happy. I run my bars with some forward roll to alleviate wrist/palm pain. I think the asym shape of the ge1s adds in more sweep maybe the reason I like them.


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## darrenhirschey (3 mo ago)

Wow this topic is the very definition of overanalyzing.


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Funny timing this thread. 59, trashed shoulder, no labrum left, severe arthritis, holding out for replacement. Tried running the 780s that came on my trail bike, but that is just too big a lever when turning on that shoulder, I just do not have that much mobility, plus it tightens up as I am riding over rough terrain. Pulled out 620 bars that I had on my 10-year-old hardtail, and it felt good on smooth trails, plus, I found myself steering with my hips again. Going to try a 680 on the Trance. I might give up some low speed stability, but if it keeps my riding, I'll do whatever it takes.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

I got used to riding almost exclusively park a couple years ago so 800 became my go-to. Last year, however, I noticed on one long ride that my wrists were bent and hurt a decent amount on a sustained climb. So, now I run 800 on my Enduro bike, 780 on my Trail bike, and 760 on my hardtail. 
I could see myself sticking with 780 for trail riding from now on, but I don’t notice the 760 as being too narrow either, so I’m torn. I’m 5’10 or so with broad shoulders for context.


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## CheetahTurbo (Oct 12, 2016)

mack_turtle said:


> If I measured my handlebar by "pushup" position, I'd have a 500mm wide bar.


Note to self: do not measure using Triangle (Diamond) Push-Up 😁


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

darrenhirschey said:


> Wow this topic is the very definition of overanalyzing.


If you think this is over-analyzing... you ain't seen nothing yet.


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## phromm (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing wider bars are a culprit in shoulder pain if you're doing a lot of pulling (bunnyhopping, manualing). If you think about doing a pull-up, it's a lot easier to do if your hand position is narrower and much harder to do as you increase the width between your hands. That seems like a lot of potential added strain on your shoulders the wider the bar you use.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

mack_turtle said:


> this is nonsense. Lee McCormack admits to proliferating this baseless theory and says he realizes it's nonsense now. your pushup stance has, at best, a coincidental relationship to your handlebar width.
> 
> anyone can ride a narrower handlebar, but not everyone can ride a wider bar. in other words, your handlebar can be too wide, but not (within reason) too narrow. I cannot hurt your body to go narrower. at a certain point, riding stability and confidence goes down with a narrower bar, but injuring your arms and shoulders from an excessively wide bar is arguably worse.


Lee is getting both his shoulders replaced thus year, and he’s had problems with his forever. Lee does what works for his shoulders but does not work for everyone. 

My problems are more related to pecs so i feel better with wider bars. 

Technically the whole elbows out position isn’t great for your shoulders, because it puts your rotator cuffs in a stressed position, but some folks can handle it better than others.


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## stockmandc (3 mo ago)

Shoulder pain, in my own experience, can come from an impinged neck nerve. I solved my MTB pain problem by moving to a larger frame, wider bars and wearing eye contacts. I may have been a bit cramped by the smaller frame. The contacts allowed me to look up with my eyes rather than bending my neck back to see through my glasses. I didn't do a proper DOE (design of experiments), so I can't say which factors helped at all or the most - I can only say that I went from giving up the sport to 100% pain free. I can say that the impinged nerve was 100% verified and the risks to fix are not worth takng, for me, at this time. So, I would encourage having the source of pain identified - if the risks are low, perhaps it can be fixed. I had shoulder surgery years after and directly related to a MTB fall - that surgery was very low risk and totally worth it, as the pain was affecting my general life, not just biking.


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## tesxyz (May 31, 2006)

Fun fact, I used to kayak a ton, measured my grip width on my favorite racing paddle, turns out I like the 800mm width for multiple sports. My guess is anyone having that much pain in their shoulders when riding might have other things going on like an impingement.


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## jaybee59 (Aug 26, 2019)

b rock said:


> This. I also wanted to add that McCormack would absolutely tell you to go narrower if you are feeling pain, and to not ignore the pain, as he has written a bunch about his mistakes and permanent shoulder damage (from ignoring pain and biomechanics doing stuff like bench pressing). Some more here: My shoulders hurt. Are my bars too wide? - Lee Likes Bikes
> 
> I don't know what McCormack's current handlebar width calculation is, but the problem is the calculators don't work very well if you are tall, because they recommend bar widths beyond 800mm, and that starts to not be very practical, and hints that maybe the calculators aren't that good an idea at all.


 Here's another with Lee....


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

I've been running bendy and fairly narrow bars (750 max.) for pretty much the whole time I've been on mtb (since '94). The only bar that's ever bothered be was the Jones as it was too much sweep for my wrists. I have quite wide shoulders and have never liked the feel of wide bars and I prefer narrow singletrack. As has been said... not everyone can or wants to ride monster wide bars. FYI - currently riding Watson Ti Picorino bars and love them.


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

1 Speed said:


> I've been running bendy and fairly narrow bars (750 max.) for pretty much the whole time I've been on mtb (since '94). The only bar that's ever bothered be was the Jones as it was too much sweep for my wrists. I have quite wide shoulders and have never liked the feel of wide bars and I prefer narrow singletrack. As has been said... not everyone can or wants to ride monster wide bars. FYI - currently riding Watson Ti Picorino bars and love them.


I'm not a fan either of super wide having gone down to 740 on the OneUp with my current setup. Sometimes I think I may have cut it too short though. It was feeling too twitchy to me the other day, but I think I had them rolled too far forward. Seems to be a trade-off between overly responsive turning on the one hand and too vague turning on the other. Plus anything over 780 and I'm pretty sure I'd get clipped by a tree sooner or later.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

ttengineer said:


> Unless you’re a child or little person I find it hard to believe that a standard push-up position is 550mm for any grown male.
> 
> To be clear, a proper push-up should have your hands slightly wider than your shoulders.
> 
> ...


Shoulder width for me is 26.5" Inside of hand lined up with outside of shoulder puts me at 860mm. I've always run 800mm RF Next R bars and they've always been comfortable. I've recently been running my controls further inside to allow me run my hands on the inside of my grips to see if I could run narrower bars. Although not as comfortable riding along, On technical tight singletrack it feels a bit more maneuverable. Probably gonna cut down a set of bars to give it a good test.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

All I know is I went from 760mm to 800mm with my last set of bars and it feels too wide.
It seems odd, since I'm 6'-2", with broad shoulders and a +3" gorilla index.


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