# Talk to me about E-fatbike options



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

So, my dad turns 78 today and he's thinking of grabbing an e-bike to add to his stable.
His favorite mountain bike is his Ice Cream Truck, so I'm thinking an e-fatbike might be the way to go, particularly since his go-to riding spot is very well maintained in the winter and he'd have one e-bike that would work for him all year.

I've seen mtnbkrmike's Norcos and I swear I've also seen a Specialized e-fat. 
Would definitely want to go through a local shop for a complete vs buying online and/or building.
So what else is out there from the major companies?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> So, my dad turns 78 today and he's thinking of grabbing an e-bike to add to his stable.
> His favorite mountain bike is his Ice Cream Truck, so I'm thinking an e-fatbike might be the way to go, particularly since his go-to riding spot is very well maintained in the winter and he'd have one e-bike that would work for him all year.
> 
> I've seen mtnbkrmike's Norcos and I swear I've also seen a Specialized e-fat.
> ...


The designer of our bikes, PJ Hunton, lives in Kimberley BC.




We were just there and chatted with one of the local groomers for about 20 minutes on the trail, who told me that PJ is on their local Board (not sure which one) and has shared with them a bunch of insider details, including that Norco missed the deadline this year for their vastly new and improved Bigfoot VLT, largely due to COVID-related supply issues. Apparently, the new design will be class leading in every possible way. Stay tuned for what I am told will be very big news.

Also, I was recently consulted by another manufacturer regarding a brand new e-fat bike that they hope to be introducing soon. I never signed an NDA but I did assure them I would keep things confidential. PM me if you wish, in which case I can certainly ask them what I am permitted to share with you.

There aren’t a lot of e-fat bike options out there. But the two I mentioned above are both stellar examples.

My e-fatties have been almost life altering. Today is one of the few days over the past 4 weeks that we missed out there (because it’s raining today, where we are, and I didn’t want to risk trashing the trails). We have a crap ton of mileage on these bikes. Once I ditched the SX and NX crap off them (except for the bullet proof NX cassette), they have been incredible. Day in, day out, they perform. On everything from rolling greens, to the same blacks we ride in the summer. Geo is SPOT ON.

LOVE our Bigfoot VLTs. And the new ones will be much better!


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Lamere makes a Full suspension e-Fat









eSummit Electric Fat FS Bike | LaMere Cycles


LaMere eSummit is world's only full suspension, full carbon electric fat bike with Shimano E8000 motor and internal battery. Can be turned into regular eMTB for non-snow season. Fits biggest 27.5x4.5" and 26x5" fat tires. Custom built any way you like here in Minneapolis, MN.




www.lamerecycles.com


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

if your dad gets radical, there's the Foes.









Fat-E-Ticket - Foes Fabrications


Foes Fat E-Ticket $5,399 Frame with Shimano STEPS and shock Due to the global pandemic Shimano EP8 electric motors are currently unavailable due to extraordinarily long lead times. We are currently unable to accept new orders until further notice. The Fat-E-Ticket improves on Brent’s Mutz fat...




www.foesracing.com


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Carl Mega said:


> if your dad gets radical, there's the Foes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's far from getting rad, but oh man would he love that thing!


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

For a 78 yr. old guy this is what I would suggest: RadRover 6 Plus Step-Thru


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

After getting my 86 y/o dad an ebike a few years ago, I’d recommend staying away from hub drive machines. Go mid-drive if you want real performance.
But then if your dad will be riding in a more sedate manner (not on trails), then a hub drive machine might be okay.
=sParty


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I can see one of these in my future.( I wonder how well it would be with 29+ in the dirt-time of year?)
We did a 18 mile fatbike ride last week end and it would have been great to have a little assist the last 4-5 miles of the ride.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bigwheel said:


> For a 78 yr. old guy this is what I would suggest: RadRover 6 Plus Step-Thru


You obviously don't know my dad.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> After getting my 86 y/o dad an ebike a few years ago, I’d recommend staying away from hub drive machines. Go mid-drive if you want real performance.
> But then if your dad will be riding in a more sedate manner (not on trails), then a hub drive machine might be okay.
> =sParty


He only rides trails. I taught him right. 💪

He moves slow, and now he just had a knee replaced probably even a bit slower, but he's definitely not your typical septuagenarian when it comes to MTB.
He also puts in a good bit of trail work and has for decades. A few of his other 'mature' riding / building buddies are the ones who have been suggesting he try an e-bike, but until recently, he's been holding out with just pedal power.

He's been looking at FS non-fat e-bikes (one of his LBS has a Trek Rail that he's eyeing) but with how much he likes his Ice Cream Truck, I figured it would be worth considering an e-fat.
Seems like now's a tough time to get a hold of one though.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I tried all last night to get into the Foes site and couldn’t. I concluded that Anonymous had taken their name literally and hit them as well, out of an abundance of caution.

I finally got in there this morning and kaboom.

HOLY CRAP is that a sweet looking frame 😍

One question for you, @slapheadmofo - how much do you love your dad? Ok, maybe two… And how much would he let you ride it? And one more I guess… Do you both fit the same size frame, by any chance?

😝

My vote is the Foes (even as biased as I may be)!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I tried all last night to get into the Foes site and couldn’t. I concluded that Anonymous had taken their name literally and hit them as well, out of an abundance of caution.
> 
> I finally got in there this morning and kaboom.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that thing is really sharp. If only you could actually get one.

Sadly, we're a couple frame sizes apart. It's definitely cut into my ability to borrow or 'inherit' his bikes. 
When my son was younger, he would get them (which is how an 11 y/o ended up with a sick carbon Mojo), but now the kid is even taller than me, so I dunno where the hand-me downs are going to end up.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yeah, that thing is really sharp. If only you could actually get one.
> 
> Sadly, we're a couple frame sizes apart. It's definitely cut into my ability to borrow or 'inherit' his bikes.
> When my son was younger, he would get them (which is how an 11 y/o ended up with a sick carbon Mojo), but now the kid is even taller than me, so I dunno where the hand-me downs are going to end up.


Same as me and my daughter. With guitars too, since she’s a leftie ☹ Oh well.


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

I bought my 67year old dad one of these last summer and he has been loving it. 










All Terrain HT Stealth


The all new All Terrain Stealth R750 electric fat bike is the culmination of our new frame design style built on top of our most popular and best-selling bike All Terrain R750 electric bike design. We took the best elements of the All Terrain R750 and added some key elements that make this our...




shop.m2sbikes.com






I changed the rear cassette out for lower gearing and the front sprocket too


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bonnie&Clyde said:


> I bought my 67year old dad one of these last summer and he has been loving it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was actually just looking for something along these lines last night for a buddy's dad who's a big hunter; this would be perfect for him, thanks!  

My dad would be looking for something on the higher end of the performance spectrum, definitely a mid-drive rather than hub.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Will he be using it on sand or snow? If 29x3” tires are big enough, then Trek’s Rail might be worth considering. I know 29x3” fit cuz that’s what I’m running on my Rail. 
Lots of power, high quality construction, terrific suspension. 
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Will he be using it on sand or snow? If 29x3” tires are big enough, then Trek’s Rail might be worth considering. I know 29x3” fit cuz that’s what I’m running on my Rail.
> Lots of power, high quality construction, terrific suspension.
> =sParty


Definitely in some snow, but his local trails are very well groomed and ridden, so 3" would likely work.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

…I have been dreaming all day about the Fat E-Ticket…


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

SHM, take a look at the Biktrix HD; 300nm of torque (probably will be "detuned" for production).


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> So, my dad turns 78 today and he's thinking of grabbing an e-bike to add to his stable.
> His favorite mountain bike is his Ice Cream Truck, so I'm thinking an e-fatbike might be the way to go, particularly since his go-to riding spot is very well maintained in the winter and he'd have one e-bike that would work for him all year.
> 
> I've seen mtnbkrmike's Norcos and I swear I've also seen a Specialized e-fat.
> ...


I know that you are clearly indicating that you would not build but If I were in your situation, I would strongly look at it even if I only had rudimentary skills at working on bikes. 
Your Dad likes his ICT and is going to compare everything you can buy to that ICT, just cuz he is your father. For less than a $1,000 you can purchase a mid drive kit and have it in less than two weeks. The ICT can be converted in a couple of hours, or converted back to an analog bike in a couple of hours. If you buy a 360 watt hour battery and mount it low, you would add under 15 pounds total, all down low and centered on the bike. 
That plan would give you some breathing room to really look for a bike deal and the experience would zero in on what he really wants. The kits don't depreciate as much as the bike and kit do. When you picked up a nice e bike down the road, you could convert the ICT back to analog and sell the kit locally. The kit does not damage the bike. 

In my experience with older riders I find that nearly all of them are diminished to the point of using an e bike to continue at around 80 years old. By 83 years old, they prefer the flexibility of a cadence sensed bike over a torque sensed bike. By 90 very few are still riding period.


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## Mitchbcool (Jan 3, 2018)

Here's a bike worth looking at, the iGo Outland Oka, only $2799. A Canadian company with a good dealer network in the US.
Its a hub drive but has a torque sensor and feels very similar to my mid drive bike. I changed the front chainring to a 34 tooth and it'll climb any hill your dad may try.









Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

PierreR said:


> For less than a $1,000 you can purchase a mid drive kit and have it in less than two weeks. The ICT can be converted in a couple of hours, or converted back to an analog bike in a couple of hours. If you buy a 360 watt hour battery and mount it low, you would add under 15 pounds total, all down low and centered on the bike.
> That plan would give you some breathing room to really look for a bike deal and the experience would zero in on what he really wants. The kits don't depreciate as much as the bike and kit do. When you picked up a nice e bike down the road, you could convert the ICT back to analog and sell the kit locally. The kit does not damage the bike.


I like this idea, and after bouncing it off him, so does he. Thanks!

Fos'l PMed me and generously offered to help out with advice, but I'll also happily take any recommendations on conversions any of you can make.
I'd imagine there's some sort of decent thread here somewhere about it as well, just haven't had a chance to look for it yet.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> …I have been dreaming all day about the Fat E-Ticket…



Foes E-ticket will hopefully be back soon. They are waiting on parts.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Well, thanks for all the input everyone.

He's decided for the time being to go with a non-fat e-bike. Depending how that goes and 'how many winters he has left in him' LOL we may do a conversion on his ICT down the road. Extra big thanks to Bob and Pierre for your input on that front. Hopefully, I'll hit you up again with some questions in fall.

For now, this should be showing up Friday. He's excited AF about it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Well, thanks for all the input everyone.
> 
> He's decided for the time being to go with a non-fat e-bike. Depending how that goes and 'how many winters he has left in him' LOL we may do a conversion on his ICT down the road. Extra big thanks to Bob and Pierre for your input on that front. Hopefully, I'll hit you up again with some questions in fall.
> 
> For now, this should be showing up Friday. He's excited AF about it.


Congrats to you and your dad. And good work getting the ball over the goal line so quickly on this.

That’s a killer bike by the way.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Congrats to you and your dad. And good work getting the ball over the goal line so quickly on this.
> 
> That’s a killer bike by the way.


Thanks man!

Yeah, we don't dick around when it comes to closing the deal.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Carl Mega said:


> if your dad gets radical, there's the Foes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks bada$$. Wow.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Well, thanks for all the input everyone.
> 
> He's decided for the time being to go with a non-fat e-bike. Depending how that goes and 'how many winters he has left in him' LOL we may do a conversion on his ICT down the road. Extra big thanks to Bob and Pierre for your input on that front. Hopefully, I'll hit you up again with some questions in fall.
> 
> For now, this should be showing up Friday. He's excited AF about it.


Good for him. He'll enjoy that. It took me quite a bit of talking to get my 87yearold dad to finally get an eBike. I was pushing for something like your dad got, but his cheap (born during the depression) side of him opted for the conversion kit. He loves to tinker and build things (he had an old Wizzer gas powered bike conversion back in the 40s). He mounted it to one of his old favorite hardtails (it wouldn't fit his size medium FSR XC) and has been loving it. He put over 250 miles on it in the first month and it allowed him to get back up to some of his favorite trails that he built back in the 80s and 90s.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

KRob said:


> Good for him. He'll enjoy that. It took me quite a bit of talking to get my 87yearold dad to finally get an eBike. I was pushing for something like your dad got, but his cheap (born during the depression) side of him opted for the conversion kit. He loves to tinker and build things (he had an old Wizzer gas powered bike conversion back in the 40s). He mounted it to one of his old favorite hardtails (it wouldn't fit his size medium FSR XC) and has been loving it. He put over 250 miles on it in the first month and it allowed him to get back up to some of his favorite trails that he built back in the 80s and 90s.


87 huh? That's frigging awesome! I would love it if my dad is still out there riding in another decade; I think the e-bike is going to give him some fresh motivation. Maybe he'll get out 5 or 6 days a week now instead of 2 or 3. 💪


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

KRob said:


> That looks bada$$. Wow.


Right? 
That's got me thinking...I don't have an e-bike nor a fatbike now. Kill two stoned birds at once.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> 87 huh? That's frigging awesome! I would love it if my dad is still out there riding in another decade; I think the e-bike is going to give him some fresh motivation. Maybe he'll get out 5 or 6 days a week now instead of 2 or 3.


He’ll be 90 next month. He was 87 or 88 (can’t remember) when he got his eBike conversion. It has really breathed new life into his biking. Hope I’m still going strong like that when I’m his age too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Right?
> That's got me thinking...I don't have an e-bike nor a fatbike now. Kill two stoned birds at once.


eFat really makes sense to me. Snow riding is orders of magnitude harder than normal trails. Not to mention being able to ride mud or sand. And if it can be fitted with narrower 29” 2.8 for everything else? Win. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

KRob said:


> eFat really makes sense to me. Snow riding is orders of magnitude harder than normal trails. Not to mention being able to ride mud or sand. And if it can be fitted with narrower 29” 2.8 for everything else? Win.


Agreed. eFat - with its inherently heavier equipment and more taxing terrain - does make the most sense. To me, if you are going to incur the trappings (indignity?) of a motor, you should leverage that advantage by removing equipment limitations that were previously incurred by being human powered. The size/weight and traction you can gain in your tires and wheels (and suspension options) is that area - just like on regular motos. Engine go brrrrr and turn heavy tires with max traction.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Carl Mega said:


> Agreed. eFat - with its inherently heavier equipment and more taxing terrain - does make the most sense. To me, if you are going to incur the trappings (indignity?) of a motor, you should leverage that advantage by removing equipment limitations that were previously incurred by being human powered. The size/weight and traction you can gain in your tires and wheels (and suspension options) is that area - just like on regular motos. Engine go brrrrr and turn heavy tires with max traction.


Agreed. Maybe the ebike revolution will breathe new life into the sport of off-road motorcycling. At least electric ones. 
=sParty


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Agreed. Maybe the ebike revolution will breathe new life into the sport of off-road motorcycling. At least electric ones.
> =sParty


Yup. Categories and sub-categories all over the place. But for me, I don't want regular moto chassis w/ a e-motor; though that has its place. My interest is to take advantage of the lighter (torque to weight) emoto/battery and have a correspondingly agile chassis. Similar to the current Sur-ron but.....good. Heh. More like a quality DH platform, no pedals - throttle, but made a bit more stout in terms of frame, suspension, wheels. So basically between that DH bike and the Sur-ron. There are a few options close to this but, imho, not there yet.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> Agreed. Maybe the ebike revolution will breathe new life into the sport of off-road motorcycling. At least electric ones.
> =sParty



Man -- I hope not. I love that the ~regional moto crowd has abandoned two wheels and gone all-in on texas wheelchairs.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

mikesee said:


> Man -- I hope not. I love that the ~regional moto crowd has abandoned two wheels and gone all-in on texas wheelchairs.


Right. I wonder if my post above makes it sound like it’s my wish or my hope — it’s not. Merely my curiosity. 
=sParty


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Man -- I hope not. I love that the ~regional moto crowd has abandoned two wheels and gone all-in on texas wheelchairs.


I wouldn't worry. The irrevocable drift for bad users is to gravitate to the least demanding activity. The SxS people ain't coming back. However, you might find some eBikers who adopt eMotos to get rid of that pesky pseudo-pedaling.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Carl Mega said:


> I wouldn't worry. The irrevocable drift for bad users is to gravitate to the least demanding activity. The SxS people ain't coming back. However, you might find some eBikers who adopt eMotos to get rid of that pesky pseudo-pedaling.


And moto riders who want to add some stealth so they can ride off-limits trails.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> And moto riders who want to add some stealth so they can ride off-limits trails.


That is a problem. But probably a different can of worms than where a fair bit of Mikesee's regional trails currently open to both. Pew pew.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

KRob said:


> eFat really makes sense to me. Snow riding is orders of magnitude harder than normal trails. Not to mention being able to ride mud or sand. And if it can be fitted with narrower 29” 2.8 for everything else? Win.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As of a year and a half ago, I hadn’t owned an e-bike nor a fat bike, nor had I done any serious night riding. In a blink of an eye, I was doing all 3 at once with my daughter, and have been ever since. 

Neither an e-bike nor a fat bike makes a ton of sense for me, but together the combo is magical.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Man -- I hope not. I love that the ~regional moto crowd has abandoned two wheels and gone all-in on texas wheelchairs.


I doubt very much that the quad-tards would give up their thrones for eBikes, pedal or otherwise.

One concern I do have about e-Fat bikes is how they might be hard on groomed trails. There are times when sinking in and stalling out on slight inclines when conditions are soft is what clues folks in that it's time to quit. Other situations where a gentle touch on the pedals can keep you going and not breaking through. With extra power they might not get the hint and just keep trenching away.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

KRob said:


> I doubt very much that the quad-tards would give up their thrones for eBikes, pedal or otherwise.
> 
> One concern I do have about e-Fat bikes is how they might be hard on groomed trails. There are times when sinking in and stalling out on slight inclines when conditions are soft is what clues folks in that it's time to quit. Other situations where a gentle touch on the pedals can keep you going and not breaking through. With extra power they might not get the hint and just keep trenching away.


'Quad-tards' huh? You do realize some people enjoy more than one single activity right? 

AS far as the whole recent groomed trail trend and the attitude that many of these newer winter riders where they believe that they all of a sudden they own PUBLIC trails and everyone else needs to stay out because they can't possible handle riding a few ruts on their wildly capable new toys is annoying AF to me. Constant crying and whining if anyone, God forbid, walks their dog on rides their 'non-approved' MTBs on the same PUBLIC trails those people have been using for decades with no issues. I'm sure they'll cry and whine just as much about seeing e-bikes out there. No issues for them to go running around with ICE groomers all over the place though, and then wanting to tell everyone else they can't go in the woods all winter. The entitlement is ridiculous, and has caused quite a bit of tension with other user groups in this region, to the point that entire sections of trail systems have been shut down to MTBs year round because of fatbikers giving people **** for using PUBLIC trails for anything but fatbiking.
Makes me wanna slap someone with one of their stupid pogies at times.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> 'Quad-tards' huh? You do realize some people enjoy more than one single activity right?
> 
> AS far as the whole recent groomed trail trend and the attitude that many of these new winter riders where they believe that they all of a sudden they own public trails and everyone else needs to stay out because they can't possible handle riding a few ruts on their wildly capable new toys is annoying AF to me. Constant crying and whining if anyone, God forbid, walks their dog on rides their 'non-approved' MTBs on the same PUBLIC trails those people have been using for decades with no issues. I'm sure they'll cry and whine just as much about seeing e-bikes out there. No issues for them to go running around with ICE groomers all over the place though, and then wanting to tell everyone else they can't go in the woods all winter. The entitlement is ridiculous, and has caused quite a bit of tension with other user groups in this region, to the point that entire sections of trail systems have been shut down to MTBs year round because of fatbikers giving people **** for using PUBLIC trails for anything but fatbiking.
> Makes me wanna slap someone with a pogey at times.


Yeah, I get it. Maybe that's a little harsh. Although, not all who ride ATV/4wheelers/UTVs are quad-tards. Many, (most?) are educated, responsible trail users who stay on designated routes. So, I guess I'll reserve that name for those yahoos who ride where ever they want turning nice non-motorized singltrack into poofed out deep double-welled trenches, spinning doughnuts in mud holes all day, running up and down the campground road at 35-40mph with four kids hanging on for dear life, beer in hand no helmets in sight, or just tearing up the side of the hill where there is no trail just because they can. You know the ones that fit the bill.

I also get what you're saying about the whiners who feel entitled to have the perfect groom for their one interest respected and everyone else can suck it. I don't want to be THAT guy. But as one who's spent many volunteer hours grooming snow trails for multi users (hikers, skiers, snow shoers, and fat bikers), I do try and be conscientious about trail etiquette and what my tires are doing to the trail. And I don't have a problem with other users on groomed trails as long as they follow some basic etiquette like waiting for the groom to set up/freeze/compact before going out, airing down so as not to sink, and turning around and getting off the trail if conditions just aren't good and they're sinking in and wrecking the trail. But like you say, I've got big squishy tires, lots of gears, and a suspension fork and when the trail becomes rutted, or pot-holed, or starts breaking down from melting, ice, mud etc, I still enjoy it and try not to get too whiny. Ha ha.

If I had an eFat Bike I don't imagine I'd have to stick to goomers nearly as much because I could ride big 5.0" tall knobbed, or studded tires at 0.5-2 lbs of pressure without too much concern for rolling resistance and plow through some reasonably deep fluff. I've never ridden one so don't know how successful I'd be but I'm sure they still have their limits. Just dawns on me as I'm rereading this that maybe the eFat bike is the ATV of the fat bike world. "With great power comes great responsibility" Ben Parker (Spiderman's uncle).


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

KRob said:


> …If I had an eFat Bike I don't imagine I'd have to stick to goomers nearly as much because I could ride big 5.0" tall knobbed, or studded tires at 0.5-2 lbs of pressure without too much concern for rolling resistance and plow through some reasonably deep fluff. I've never ridden one so don't know how successful I'd be but I'm sure they still have their limits. Just dawns on me as I'm rereading this that maybe the eFat bike is the ATV of the fat bike world. "With great power comes great responsibility" Ben Parker (Spiderman's uncle).


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Really interesting to have Fat bikers being the complaining lot regarding ruts n such. On public trails where I'm at, it'd be more common for the fat bikers to get the side-angry-glance when rutting it up for the XC ski crowd. 

I do both so I stick with a simple strategy. Fresh snow = ski until it gets wrecked. Once packed, pocked, ruts - fat bike time. Man, they roll over everything. I dunno, try not over think it but I'd say post holed is the worst.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

KRob said:


> Yeah, I get it. Maybe that's a little harsh. Although, not all who ride ATV/4wheelers/UTVs are quad-tards. Many, (most?) are educated, responsible trail users who stay on designated routes. So, I guess I'll reserve that name for those yahoos who ride where ever they want turning nice non-motorized singltrack into poofed out deep double-welled trenches, spinning doughnuts in mud holes all day, running up and down the campground road at 35-40mph with four kids hanging on for dear life, beer in hand no helmets in sight, or just tearing up the side of the hill where there is no trail just because they can. You know the ones that fit the bill.
> 
> I also get what you're saying about the whiners who feel entitled to have the perfect groom for their one interest respected and everyone else can suck it. I don't want to be THAT guy. But as one who's spent many volunteer hours grooming snow trails for multi users (hikers, skiers, snow shoers, and fat bikers), I do try and be conscientious about trail etiquette and what my tires are doing to the trail. And I don't have a problem with other users on groomed trails as long as they follow some basic etiquette like waiting for the groom to set up/freeze/compact before going out, airing down so as not to sink, and turning around and getting off the trail if conditions just aren't good and they're sinking in and wrecking the trail. But like you say, I've got big squishy tires, lots of gears, and a suspension fork and when the trail becomes rutted, or pot-holed, or starts breaking down from melting, ice, mud etc, I still enjoy it and try not to get too whiny. Ha ha.
> 
> If I had an eFat Bike I don't imagine I'd have to stick to goomers nearly as much because I could ride big 5.0" tall knobbed, or studded tires at 0.5-2 lbs of pressure without too much concern for rolling resistance and plow through some reasonably deep fluff. I've never ridden one so don't know how successful I'd be but I'm sure they still have their limits. Just dawns on me as I'm rereading this that maybe the eFat bike is the ATV of the fat bike world. "With great power comes great responsibility" Ben Parker (Spiderman's uncle).


Nailed it. 

The 'groomed or die' crowd just needs to realize that the world doesn't revolve around them, very particularly in areas such as New England where I live. Local public parks and forests where trail networks are typically located are not the place to think you can tell people to stay off the trails or to labor under the impression that most other trail users know or care about their butter smooth trail expectations/demands. Saw a post on a local FB page recently where a fadbiker proudly told of how he told a guy who was out walking with his very young (just past toddler) kids they need to get off the trails. Or what, they'll break the snow? It's snow FFS. 
**** like that makes me ashamed as a mountain biker, for real.

By my understanding, this exact sort of overly-entitled BS is what got a number of landowners at Kingdom Trails to decide to disallow MTB on their properties after sharing them for many years. Bikers lecturing the owners of the land about how they shouldn't be using the trails 'wrong', on their own property. Unbelievable.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I've ridden three or four groomed snow trails since they started to be a thing.

And man -- I just don't get it. 

I don't enjoy riding featureless sidewalks in the summer -- and I certainly wouldn't travel anywhere for them -- so why would I want to do that in winter?

Being out in the woods is good. But removing technical challenge and interesting features from the equation just kills any interest for me.

Good thing modern skis are so good, cheap, and available.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I've ridden three or four groomed snow trails since they started to be a thing.
> 
> And man -- I just don't get it.
> 
> ...


I’ve seen those types of groomers and wondered if I’d enjoy them. I guess it’s still better than sitting on a trainer in my basement. Like you say, it’s about getting out there I guess.

Most of our groomed singletrack is twisty and climby and contouring and 18” wide and is smooth for the first 2-10 days but still quite engaging because of the terrain. Then it starts breaking down, getting rutted, pot-holed or melting and freezing adding all sorts of fun challenges. We had a bit of all that today on our ride with the addition an inch of new snow on top of it all just to ramp up the _guess-what-the-snow-surface-is-doing_ equation.

I think you’d stay entertained.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

We groom with snowshoes. Trails are bumpy and full of holes from people without snowshoes. I want a full suspension e-fatty.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

kntr said:


> We groom with snowshoes. Trails are bumpy and full of holes from people without snowshoes. I want a full suspension e-fatty.
> View attachment 1974171



I've ridden a lot of snowshoe packed trail and if the terrain is interesting those trails are fantastic.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I've ridden a lot of snowshoe packed trail and if the terrain is interesting those trails are fantastic.


Up where you're at I imagine you end up riding virgin snow quite a bit, packing in your own track with fat tires or skis? or are there enough people out snow shoeing, skiing, and hiking to pack in the trails?

Down here, If a trail is going to get packed in enough to make it rideable when there's more than ~4" of snow I've gotta do it. There's just not enough folks out recreating (not complaining about that part). I used to enlist Saundra to go snowshoeing with me to get it started but I found it usually takes a minimum four passes (two people out and back) shuffle stepping and consciously stomping it in to create a decent fat tire track. Pretty slow going. Maybe a mile or two of trail after a 2-3 hour snow shoe packing session. The Snow Dog can create 5-10 miles of packed trail in the same time depending on the terrain. More sanitized for sure but in my world where I just want to ride, and I don't ski, it's a compromise I'm willing to accept. It's been a total game changer for us. And it's a fun activity too.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Around here, a lot of snow dogs and similar set-ups have come into play the last few years.
The second snow stops falling, the groomsters rush out and run them over all the trails that they can, pretty much covering the entirety of singletrack in a number of popular riding spots.
Then, they lose their **** if anyone dares to touch them until they've set up, which could take days. Up until that point, no one is supposed to enter the forest. After that point, only fadbikers are allowed.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I ride all different kinds of terrain, including meticulously maintained groomers. I like it all, partly because every ride is filled with massive snow covered Rocky Mountain peaks. 

Blasting down a groomed black can be an absolute blast. Slogging through 5 hours of post holed $hit is not. And then there is everything in between these two extremes, most of which is great. 

I tend to prefer “semi-groomed”. Somewhat beaten up groomed (from bikes) that has some degree of challenge due to ruts and other imperfections. Just my opinion of course.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

KRob said:


> Up where you're at I imagine you end up riding virgin snow quite a bit, packing in your own track with fat tires or skis? or are there enough people out snow shoeing, skiing, and hiking to pack in the trails?



Best we can tell, there are 4 bicycle riders within a ~40 mile radius. Which is pretty much the whole county.

Well -- _were_ 4 riders. One moved away in December, the other is moving away next month.

Which leaves the two of us.

If we were OCD about being able to ride we'd probably buy an old sled and ride it around some of the kajillion miles of logging roads, double tracks, and forest trails that start right from the door, then go out and ride that packed track.

Instead we ski from the door when the snow is soft and fresh. Endless miles of climbing on those same fire roads, with not one person on 'em but us. Or we can skip the roads and skin the fall line, then make turns back down. Infinitely enjoyable.

When it hasn't snowed for awhile we have 10+/- miles of snowshoe trail that get packed in enough to ride. Pretty fun. And some of our ski tracks get shared/stomped by the resident elk herd enough that between us and them -- and some _really_ low pressures -- they can be ridden. And literally hundreds of miles of groomed-for-slednecks track, that I have yet to touch since moving here. I don't ride road in summer, not really interested in winter. With one exception -- I'll sometimes kick and glide up one of those roads and then deploy a packraft and float back out. 

I guess I've arrived at a place where enjoying some variety is way more enjoyable than just grinding out miles.

The most rewarding is riding crust -- which comes and goes ephemerally all winter. Take advantage while it lasts, and then celebrate fresh snow by leaving the bike on the hook and heading out on skis for as long as _that_ lasts.

And repeat...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

What’s a fadbike?
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> What’s a fadbike?
> =sParty


A fatbike that can only be ridden on groomers

Tell tale sign is pogies above 30.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mikesee said:


> Best we can tell, there are 4 bicycle riders within a ~40 mile radius. Which is pretty much the whole county.
> 
> Well -- _were_ 4 riders. One moved away in December, the other is moving away next month.
> 
> ...


Awesome pics, as always. 🤟


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Sometimes I push and carry a lot. Its fun on the DH though. You can see in the first pic that the skiers stop on the other side of the creek. Once I cross the creek its a super fun DH.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kntr said:


> Sometimes I push and carry a lot. Its fun on the DH though. You can see in the first pic that the skiers stop on the other side of the creek. Once I cross the creek its a super fun DH.
> 
> View attachment 1974260
> 
> ...


You ride across that creek?!
=sParty


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> You ride across that creek?!
> =sParty


Lol. No I had to carry across.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> A fatbike that can only be ridden on groomers
> 
> Tell tale sign is pogies above 30.


Guilty. Lately it’s been hitting temps above 30 F here, slightly. The last few days I rode with pogies and no gloves. I was going to take the pogies off today but decided not to. Riding with no gloves is awesome.

We do hit non-groomers on occasion though 😉


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Best we can tell, there are 4 bicycle riders within a ~40 mile radius. Which is pretty much the whole county.
> 
> Well -- _were_ 4 riders. One moved away in December, the other is moving away next month.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a nice life. Glad you guys have found what you're looking for up in Eye Du Hoe. Crust riding season is hit and miss as you say, but so much good fun. We do snow shoe some. I like variety too, but don't ski (or packraft/kayak) so I get my variety in other ways. Like I said, when the trails start breaking down from heat, foot/hoof prints, sublimation etc the trails change up quite a bit. And yes, just being out in the mountains with big fluffy, quiet flakes falling all around is a transcendent experience. Love it. I'm not nearly as grumpy in the Winter as I used to be before I took up fat biking. 

Then the south facing black trails on the other side of town start drying out and I can bring out the regular mtb or head 3 hours south to Hurkin.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

KRob said:


> Then the south facing black trails on the other side of town start drying out and I can bring out the regular mtb or head 3 hours south to Hurkin.



3 hours to Hurkin would indeed give a certain sense of sanity. Almost like having money in the bank -- but better.


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## G (Feb 22, 2010)

Been thinking about this Nireeka Prime, looks different, but looks like a pretty decent deal. May not be the best all mountain bike, but z as good one to kick around with.




__





Nireeka Prime - Nireeka Configurator


Build your own customized Nireeka E-bike




nireeka.com


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

G said:


> Been thinking about this Nireeka Prime, looks different, but looks like a pretty decent deal. May not be the best all mountain bike, but z as good one to kick around with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes, a 62 lb rigid bike with a 480wh battery might ride like a farm tractor with a nearly empty tank of gas. Just sayin’.
=sParty


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

A non-full suspension fat-e is just plain stupid. Not too mention a 480wh battery only.
Just sayin.



Sparticus said:


> Yikes, a 62 lb rigid bike with a 480wh battery might ride like a farm tractor with a nearly empty tank of gas. Just sayin’.
> =sParty


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## G (Feb 22, 2010)

2SLOFATASS said:


> A non-full suspension fat-e is just plain stupid. Not too mention a 480wh battery only.
> Just sayin.


As far as being a cruiser, it would be fine. And, there is an 840W battery available.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Looks like it's about as compliant as a concrete bike.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Unless you actually require and need a fat bike ebike, then anything is doable. I doubt most people require a fat bike because they hardly, if ever, ride deep mud, or snow or sand. Even a 2.50-3.00" wide tire is great for most traction needs and its a good comprimise between flat asphalt riding and traction requirements of a river bed full of big stones, or needing that extra air and bite of 2.50 tire. 29x3.00 bike would be awesome, maybe a bbshd if your going mid, a leaf 35h is good too, or a mac.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

matt4x4 said:


> Unless you actually require and need a fat bike ebike, then anything is doable. I doubt most people require a fat bike because they hardly, if ever, ride deep mud, or snow or sand. Even a 2.50-3.00" wide tire is great for most traction needs and its a good comprimise between flat asphalt riding and traction requirements of a river bed full of big stones, or needing that extra air and bite of 2.50 tire. 29x3.00 bike would be awesome, maybe a bbshd if your going mid, a leaf 35h is good too, or a mac.


I liked my 275 plus bike wit 3.0"s quite a bit, so I get what you're saying. 
Mainly thinking fatty precisely because of winter capabilities, in particular breaking and packing my out-the-door trails, and also for hitting up local and not-so-local groomed stuff without having to hear all the crying from the fad-bikers that goes on if anyone rides anything less than 4" tires on 'their' precious snow. 
Asphalt, deep sand or mud are not in the picture.


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## angelo (Sep 3, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> A fatbike that can only be ridden on groomers
> 
> Tell tale sign is pogies above 30.


more like above 10


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## andy_5772 (9 mo ago)

Getting my Dad back into riding as well. Probably will go with fat tires for the extra comfort and traction/stopping.


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