# Trying to decide between 3 FS bikes in the $400 range.



## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

*Trying to decide between 3 FS bikes in the $400 range. Update: Went with HT instead.*

First a little info. I live in Colorado Springs and used to do a LOT of mountain biking, but this was in the late eighties to early nineties. I started riding again two years ago and am still riding my late eighties Diamond Back. It's all steel frame and no suspension sure seems a lot rougher now when I'm in my late 30's though.

So far I'm only riding on the mostly paved bike paths around my house with the family. Even still, I'm pretty sure I want a FS bike as I do want to start doing some light off road riding this summer. The only concern I have with a FS bike is the fact that the paved bike path I'll be riding every day has an 8% grade that lasts a couple hundred feet. I've read that FS uphill can be detrimental. I'm not really concerned too much about that though as I'm in good enough shape to pull my 4 year old daughter up that hill in her trailer on my heavy old DB with bent wheels.

With all that said, I've narrowed down my choices to 3 bikes in the $400 range. A Motobecane 400DS, a Forge Sawback 7xx, and a Gravity FSX 3.0. I'm still learning as best I can all of the differences between all of the components on each one, but I thought I'd come here and get an opinion on my choices so far. Keep in mind 95% of my riding will be done on paved trails. I could probably even get away with a Wal-Mart DS, but I'd rather have something that will last.


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## theNomad (Dec 27, 2010)

Don't do it. Sounds like you do not need full suspension. Get a hardtail, it'll be good for 99% of what you're looking for offroad, if its just light xc and then family rides. You'll have a lousy FS or a decent hardtail.


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## gabe23 (Aug 28, 2010)

Please do yourself a favor and look at some hardtails in that price range. A cheap, heavy FS bike with a pogo spring in the rear won't be good on the paved trails and will be even worse on real singletrack. :nono:


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

The reason I really want a FS bike is I have some lower back problems that are made worse by sudden shocks, ie, hitting bumps on a bike. Sure I can do the obvious and stand up for every little bump but then I'm leaning forward and killing my back again. I'm not going to give up biking because of my back but then I don't want to aggravate the problem by beating on it either. This is why I figured a FS would be the way to go.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

You would be miserable with a full suspension bike for the riding you're describing. A 29'er hardtail is sometimes said to have the qualities of a bike with a couple inches of suspension and has the added benefits of riding fast with the big wheels and you could keep a set of road bike wheels to swap out for road rides if you choose in the future.

I would go test ride a 29'er and see what you think. I would also avoid buying a bike online if you don't have much knowledge of exactly what you're looking for and what you'll be getting. Sure the prices are pretty good, but you miss a lot with a human person actually looking at you and trying to match you to a bike.


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## xdeity (Jan 9, 2011)

It may be a little more in USD but try looking for a 2008 mongoose otero super (the elite is ok but has a worse fork). I have one and it's great, yes it's a little heavier than a 2 thousand dollar/£ bike but it does the job and is cheap. I know a supplier in the uk but not the US.
mine cost £400 and at current exchange rates it won't be much more in dollars. Rock shox Tora 289 front, rockshox bar2.1 rear. Does the job and does it well


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## waterdude (Jun 28, 2010)

zebrahum said:


> You would be miserable with a full suspension bike for the riding you're describing. A 29'er hardtail is sometimes said to have the qualities of a bike with a couple inches of suspension and has the added benefits of riding fast with the big wheels and you could keep a set of road bike wheels to swap out for road rides if you choose in the future.
> 
> I would go test ride a 29'er and see what you think. I would also avoid buying a bike online if you don't have much knowledge of exactly what you're looking for and what you'll be getting. Sure the prices are pretty good, but you miss a lot with a human person actually looking at you and trying to match you to a bike.


This^^^^


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

This would be the cheapest FS MTB I would buy new. You can probably find it for $800 which is double your budget. I wouldn't get a new bike less than this if you are dead set on a FS bike.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/yukon.fx/7326/44104/

Otherwise for still more than your budget (but closer to it) Nashbar bike has this. Sign up for their mailing list and around the holidays they usually have a 20% off coupon or free shipping.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_522743_-1___


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## xdeity (Jan 9, 2011)

Really? The mOngoose is better spec'd all round and cheaper and no it's not a walgoose. My friend has the giant Yukon fx, he wants my bike as it's just way nicer and he is gutted that I paid so much less. 
Don't buy a bike with a suntour fork, crap is the word that springs toning. The only thing better on he giant is the tyres (tires for Americans)


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kbohip said:


> With all that said, I've narrowed down my choices to 3 bikes in the $400 range. A Motobecane 400DS, a Forge Sawback 7xx, and a Gravity FSX 3.0. I'm still learning as best I can all of the differences between all of the components on each one, but I thought I'd come here and get an opinion on my choices so far. Keep in mind 95% of my riding will be done on paved trails. I could probably even get away with a Wal-Mart DS, but I'd rather have something that will last.


NONE of these bikes will be easy on your back.

The suspension designs are horrible (i.e.--they do NOT work...just violently bounce like a pogo stick), the coil shocks in those designs are horrible (not very reactive or responsive), and are generally trash, even riding on paved trails.

If you're trying to go on the low end, there is nothing wrong with that, but you're going to have to change your search to hardtails. And for bikes in the $400 range, you will be on the lower end of quality bikes/components that will last, which is what you are looking for.

I'd suggest going to your local bike shops there in Colorado Springs (there are plenty...trust me ;-)). Test ride a bunch of bikes (including maybe a few of the lower end 29ers like the Gary Fisher Marlin). Each will feel different to you, just like different shoes will feel different. Then, pick which one felt the best.

Department store bikes will not hold up quality wise and can not offer service the way your local bike shop can. They are also usually not sized and people are not all the same size.

You want a bike that fits you well and is comfortable so that you will want to ride it, instead of it being another decoration on a wall and another place to hang clothes.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

New decent FS bikes would start from$650-1000, used one may be 500-700. The one you described above is not going to work well for you. Either you up the budget or get something else better that fit your current budget.


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

xdeity said:


> Really? The mOngoose is better spec'd all round and cheaper and no it's not a walgoose. My friend has the giant Yukon fx, he wants my bike as it's just way nicer and he is gutted that I paid so much less.
> Don't buy a bike with a suntour fork, crap is the word that springs toning. The only thing better on he giant is the tyres (tires for Americans)


Yeah, I would recommend the Mongoose but it looks like they have trimmed their lower end FS bikes from their lineup a little? Their cheapest bike with a MSRP of $869 has a coil rear shock. Used might be the way to go?

I would listen to what mimi1885 says down below. Look at his profile... He has like a hundred bikes and knows what he is talking about.


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## bones72751 (Sep 1, 2010)

I'm just gonna actually answer your question. Out of those three bikes, I'd definitely cut out the forge, their hardtails are pretty nice for the price, but I've heard bad things about the 7xx. I don't have experience with the motobecane or gravity, but they both seem pretty closely spec'd. The gravity has a little better rear derailleur, but the motobecane has better wheel/tire setup. My uncle used to professionally ride motobecanes back in the day, and loved them. Not sure how much they've changed since then. Neither one of the suspension setups are overly great, but as long as you don't ride them like they cost 2k you shouldn't have a problem. The gravity does have a better coil spring, but it is still a pogo. You would definitely find a better spec'd hardtail new or used for the same price that would probably be better quality, but I personnaly don't see anything wrong with either of those two, as long as you know it probably can't take a 6 ft jump.


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## morningmist (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm in the exact same boat as you are. I'm 37 and want to get back into rideing now that the kids are getting old enough to ride. I have an 1990's Specialized Rock Hopper Hardtail. I'm looking into getting a suspension seatpost to ease the wear and tear on the old back.I plan on ordering one this week so I don't have any first hand experence yet.
I good hardtail can be had for 400.00 and a suspension seat post might help with the bumps, thats my 2 cents.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

bones72751 said:


> I'm just gonna actually answer your question. Out of those three bikes, I'd definitely cut out the forge, their hardtails are pretty nice for the price, but I've heard bad things about the 7xx. I don't have experience with the motobecane or gravity, but they both seem pretty closely spec'd. The gravity has a little better rear derailleur, but the motobecane has better wheel/tire setup. My uncle used to professionally ride motobecanes back in the day, and loved them. Not sure how much they've changed since then. Neither one of the suspension setups are overly great, but as long as you don't ride them like they cost 2k you shouldn't have a problem. The gravity does have a better coil spring, but it is still a pogo. You would definitely find a better spec'd hardtail new or used for the same price that would probably be better quality, but I personnaly don't see anything wrong with either of those two, as long as you know it probably can't take a 6 ft jump.


+1 on thinking twice about the 7XX (in case you were still considering it.
I own a 5XX. It is a great bike. You cant touch anything similar without spending a coulpe hundred more.
The 7XX is not a 5XX with rear suspension. Some major cuts were made in the component levels to be able to add rear suspension for only $20 more.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

kbohip said:


> The reason I really want a FS bike is I have some lower back problems that are made worse by sudden shocks, ie, hitting bumps on a bike. Sure I can do the obvious and stand up for every little bump but then I'm leaning forward and killing my back again. I'm not going to give up biking because of my back but then I don't want to aggravate the problem by beating on it either. This is why I figured a FS would be the way to go.


with fs bikes that cheap the design and actual shock is horrible. the rebound will probably so fast that any bump will just be amplified.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I realize I'm asking what seems to be impossible here, and I apologize. If I were really into actual off-road mountain biking, I'd be a lot more inclined to drop $1,500 on a decent fs bike. The last bike I bought (actually my Dad bought it for me back then) was a Diamond Back mountain bike around the time that Crokett and Tubbs were still busting drug runners on Miami Vice. 

So you can see I'm getting pretty mind blown over the choices that are out there now! I've been to a few LBS's now and all of them are telling me I need a 29'er because of my height. They say that a 29'er will provide almost as good of a ride as a mid-range DS like the ones I'm looking at, but with better parts for the price as there's no rear suspension to worry about. Of course the cheapest 29'ers I've seen at the LBS start at $750.00.:madman: Looking at BD, I don't see too many 29'ers for around the $500 price point, and some even have one speed. One speed? Really? This isn't BMX circa 1984 is it?

I'm far from making any decision yet, and the overwhelming response I'm getting is to stear clear of a cheap DS setup. I have to try one more time though. Would upgrading to something like the Motobecane 700DS still leave me with a bad DS setup? Should I just abandon the DS effort and try to find a 29'er in the $500 range?


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kbohip said:


> Thanks for the advice so far guys. I realize I'm asking what seems to be impossible here, and I apologize. If I were really into actual off-road mountain biking, I'd be a lot more inclined to drop $1,500 on a decent fs bike. The last bike I bought (actually my Dad bought it for me back then) was a Diamond Back mountain bike around the time that Crokett and Tubbs were still busting drug runners on Miami Vice.
> 
> So you can see I'm getting pretty mind blown over the choices that are out there now! I've been to a few LBS's now and all of them are telling me I need a 29'er because of my height. They say that a 29'er will provide almost as good of a ride as a mid-range DS like the ones I'm looking at, but with better parts for the price as there's no rear suspension to worry about. Of course the cheapest 29'ers I've seen at the LBS start at $750.00.:madman: Looking at BD, I don't see too many 29'ers for around the $500 price point, and some even have one speed. One speed? Really? This isn't BMX circa 1984 is it?
> 
> I'm far from making any decision yet, and the overwhelming response I'm getting is to stear clear of a cheap DS setup. I have to try one more time though. Would upgrading to something like the Motobecane 700DS still leave me with a bad DS setup? Should I just abandon the DS effort and try to find a 29'er in the $500 range?


Singlespeeds have their place and can be very fun, cheap and challenging...as well as very simple to maintain and work on.

Yeah, abandon ship on the DS. It will be worse than having a hardtail.

A 29er sounds like it could really be an answer to your search.

Do you have a Trek dealer around? The Trek (gary Fisher) Marlin is $640 and you might be able to get it a little cheaper.

Do you have a Specialized dealer around? The Specialized Hardrock 29er for $600 might work for you.

Do you have a Performance bike store anywhere around? They sell GT, Access, Fuji and a few other brands that may have what you are looking for.

Almost ALL of the larger brands will have a 29er at an entry level pricepoint (Giant, Felt, Kona, etc).

At BD, I can recommend the Cliff 29er.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/windsor_cliff29comp_xi.htm
In essence, this bike is a rebranded 2009 Fuji. It even comes with the Fuji instructions ;-)
NOTE OF WARNING!!! YOU are responsible for putting the bike together. Not a big deal for some, but may negate any savings you get from purchasing the bike online if you take it to a shop to have it assembled afterwards. ALSO, YOU are responsible for the correct sizing of the frame. As noted previously, bikes are not a one size fits all, the same way shoes aren't a one size fits all type of item. I personally have this bike and have enjoyed it quite a bit. BUT, I did a ton of research on the bike (hence I found out what the bike really was). Then I also test rode the Fuji, since it was basically the same bike. Then I also did my research on sizing (small in Windsor is a medium in Fuji). And, this ain't my first rodeo as I've been riding for 15+ years, so I'm familiar with the components, geometry and frames. I can't stress enough how this can be a poor decision if you aren't absolutley 100% sure of what you are getting and that you can do all of the assembley yourself.

So, in your situation, I'd still recommend visiting several of the stores with the goal being an entry level 29er. Let the shop guide you through the process to ensure you get the bike that fits you. And, continue to ride as many of them as you can so you know what feels/fits good to you.

To recap:
1. Ditch DS
2. Abandon idea of DS
3. Forget you ever saw the DS
4. Go ride 29ers and have fun ;-)


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

+1,000,000 On the Hardtail. For the type of riding that you've described, it would be over-kill for you to ride a FS bike. You'll also thank us when you're pulling your kid in a trailer. For $400, get a very decent HT


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

I have 4 excellent bike shops in a 1 mile area right where I work, and a Performance by my house, not too mention all the others all over town. I guess it's time I go try some out.:thumbsup:


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## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

kbohip said:


> I have 4 excellent bike shops in a 1 mile area right where I work, and a Performance by my house, not too mention all the others all over town. I guess it's time I go try some out.:thumbsup:


+1 for Performance Bikes. The thing about Performance is they have great on-line deal for bikes, especially for Xl and Sm frame sizes and the store will match or get the bike for you free of shipping.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1079360_-1_1591508_20000_400308
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1081532_-1_1591508_20000_400327
Bike stores need the stop tell people just because their tall they need a 29ers, totally untrue.


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## GFAthens (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep, go to performance and check out some hardtails. Even though you can get nothing in the FS world for $400, you ca get a seriously decent hardtiail for that kind of coin, that will put up to lots of trail use and will function smoothly and consistently. 

The most importaant consideration when buying your first bike is fit/feel. Which bike, of all that you rode and were in your price range "felt" the best. Geometry is the most important and noticable difference b/t different branded bikes in this price range.


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

GFAthens said:


> Yep, go to performance and check out some hardtails. Even though you can get nothing in the FS world for $400, you ca get a seriously decent hardtiail for that kind of coin, that will put up to lots of trail use and will function smoothly and consistently.
> 
> The most importaant consideration when buying your first bike is fit/feel. Which bike, of all that you rode and were in your price range "felt" the best. Geometry is the most important and noticable difference b/t different branded bikes in this price range.


I posted a link in an earlier post for the Diamondback Overdrive from Nashbar. Just noticed that Performance bike has them on sale but they are backordered. My brother bought one of these and they are really decent and close to your price range. It is a 29er however and not a FS.

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes//CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10052&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&pageSize=16&beginIndex=0&sortBy=Dollar+Rank%2F%2F1&searchType=resultSet&cn1=&searchTerm=overdrive


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## bclagge (Aug 31, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-27-2x450-Suspension/dp/B001C69HG4


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Last night I visited another LBS and didn't find much there. He was only stocking bikes made my Jamis and Haro though. Strange as they used to stock Trek, KHS, etc. Anyway he showed me a Haro Shift R1 DS for $800.00 that didn't impress me at all. Honestly I felt like the $500.00 Motobecane 600DS is the better bike. I'm going tomorrow to check out some other LBS's. I'll be looking at some 29'rs that are hopefully in my price range.

Right now though I'm still leaning towards a DS setup. I'm wondering if the Motobecane 700DS is a decent enough DS bike for me. The specs seem very good. The price is definitely more than I want to spend at $600, but I'm beginning to think it could be the bike for me if I want DS. If the general consensus here though is that the 700DS is still a lackluster ride, I might even check go for a cheaper HT like the Forge Sawback 5xx. Everyone seems to really like it and at $440.00 shipped and taxed it's within my budget.

Man, I NEVER thought buying a new bike would be this hard!


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## bones72751 (Sep 1, 2010)

Did you check out the Dawes roundhouse fs line at bikesdirect.com? They look like pretty mice bikes as far as cheap fs bikes go. I like the design of the rear triangle, its generally stronger than the other 2 they have, although a Tad heavier too.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

Man, seriously ditch the idea of the DS. It's nothing more than a Wal Mart bike with a shimano (low end at that) package on it.

It wouldn't matter if you put top of the line XTR with every little latest and greatest...it's still a wal mart bike...heavy and very poorly made.

I have seen one in person and it's NOT worth the price.

That suspension will make your back worse, NOT better.

I still think a 29er would be a good solution for what you are looking for.

If you are deadset on going bikesdirect, then lean towards the Cliff 29er. It's a very good bike and the larger 29er wheels/tires will provide the cush that 26ers don't.

Buying the DS in any form is a bad purchase. Not one person has yet to comment positively on the DS and that's what you came here for. Take the advice.

Good luck.


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## bones72751 (Sep 1, 2010)

I don't understand why some people have to be such dicks just because someone wants a fs bike at a good price. My uncle bought an xr-comp from Walmart, after riding Fuji, MOTOBECANE, and other top brand bikes professionally. He rides about 100 miles a week at all of our local trails, and street, and anywhere else he likes with no problems what so ever. He says it's a great bike, and the ones at bikesdirect are a little better than his. I ride my Walmart bike every other week on the same trails he does, although mines a hardtail and I have no problems out of it either. Not everything at dept stores is crap, but sure don't be caught dead around here with one ore you're worthless. If you want to get non biases opinions and advice on inexpensive, or even expensive bikes for that matter, come visit us over at bigboxbikes.com. I joined there after seeing how some of these people treat others and I think we could be of some help if you do decide to get a bikesdirect full suspension.


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## istandalone (Feb 6, 2011)

just about spewed coffee on the monitor when i read this. i think bones72751 is butthurt lol.

http://www.bigboxbikes.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=125&sid=1556a6fffbe676280d99ed6f37ec2194


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## istandalone (Feb 6, 2011)

lol. btw i always thought a blunderbuss was pretty badass. my uncle has one.


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## blunderbuss (Jan 11, 2004)

This one is pretty interesting too:

"It's such a shame that behavior like this is still allowed to continue on MTBR."

http://bigboxbikes.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78&sid=ad9cb8c4855d40413443448806d85862


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

bones72751 said:


> I don't understand why some people have to be such dicks just because someone wants a fs bike at a good price. My uncle bought an xr-comp from Walmart, after riding Fuji, MOTOBECANE, and other top brand bikes professionally. He rides about 100 miles a week at all of our local trails, and street, and anywhere else he likes with no problems what so ever. He says it's a great bike, and the ones at bikesdirect are a little better than his. I ride my Walmart bike every other week on the same trails he does, although mines a hardtail and I have no problems out of it either. Not everything at dept stores is crap, but sure don't be caught dead around here with one ore you're worthless. If you want to get non biases opinions and advice on inexpensive, or even expensive bikes for that matter, come visit us over at bigboxbikes.com. I joined there after seeing how some of these people treat others and I think we could be of some help if you do decide to get a bikesdirect full suspension.


I don't see where anyone has been rude, unfriendly or anything other than trying to give good advice on the OP questions. No one has devolved into name calling either.

I have stated many times that I have a Windsor Cliff 29er that I purchased from bikesdirect and think it is a great bike (about to go to the trail with it now).

BUT, the DS is not a good bike. It has been stated several times by different people. It has nothing to do with bikesdirect or motobecane. There are, in fact, many good bikes from Moobecane...and even more good bikes from bikesdirect.

People aren't being bike snobs in this thread, they haven't suggested that the OP must ride on a Eleventy Bagillion Dollar bike. Most comments have tried to keep it reasonable and suggested bikes in the $500-$700 range...not a leap from the OP post. However, no, you will not find a valuable FS bike in that range.


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## bones72751 (Sep 1, 2010)

LOL, I'm not "buthurt" about anything. I just don't think its fair to give Walmart bikes a bad Rep just cause SOME of our bikes suck. We do have more than just $100 steel DS bikes. Not to be repetitive, but my uncle loves his $400 DS. And he knows what he's doing. I love my $125 used hardtail ($200 new). I wasn't reffering to everyone in this thread. Just in general, people rip on walbikes. I build them every day, and yes I steer people away from some of them, but I will also show them the bikes we have that are nice bikes for their needs.


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

bones72751 said:


> LOL, I'm not "buthurt" about anything. I just don't think its fair to give Walmart bikes a bad Rep just cause SOME of our bikes suck. We do have more than just $100 steel DS bikes. Not to be repetitive, but my uncle loves his $400 DS. And he knows what he's doing. I love my $125 used hardtail ($200 new). I wasn't reffering to everyone in this thread. Just in general, people rip on walbikes. I build them every day, and yes I steer people away from some of them, but I will also show them the bikes we have that are nice bikes for their needs.


My daughter's bike was purchased from Wal-Mart and even though it has nice welds it isn't straight. When looking at the wheel line from the front of the bike the front wheel leans left and the rear wheel leans right. I returned the bike after noticing this only to find out that they were all crooked (some more than others). After visiting a couple of Wal-Marts I picked out the straightest bike I could only because she is just starting to learn to ride without training wheels. Almost all of the bikes Wal-Mart sells are made by Pacific so I don't expect the quality of the other bikes to be any better. Just my 2 cents.


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

bclagge said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-27-2x450-Suspension/dp/B001C69HG4


^ +1. There is also a smaller version marketed to roadies. The one pictured has 3 inches of travel whereas the smaller less hideous one has ~1.3 inches of travel.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Much good advice on here. Go full hardtail and hone your bike handling skills. This is the _*correct way*_ to evolve your enjoyment for mountain biking. Once you are ready for a full suspension....the climbing, speed and handling skills will make you an even better rider on the FS.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

I just got back from the LBS. I test drove a couple of Specialized MTB's. One was a Hardrock 26" Sportdisc, and the other a 29" Sportdisc. They were both....ok. Honestly for $500-600 I wasn't that impressed with either. The brakes were great on both, and I could immediately feel the weight difference between them and my 24 year old DB which is no surprise. The gearing on both blows away whatever ancient setup there is on my DB. It's REALLY easy to take one of these up a steep hill!

I was NOT impressed with the shifting on either one. There was as much of a delay between downshifts as my old DB. This is unacceptable to me considering the age difference. Definitely not happy with Specialized's choice of cheap derailleurs front and back. This is one area I see BD has them beat by.

What I was most disappointed with though was the ride. The front was great because of the shock, but of course the back felt just like what I'm used to from 25 years ago. The 29'r was a BIT better, but compared to my brother-in-laws FS bike, the difference was night and day. If I was forced to choose between the two, I'd probably take the 29'r, but my gut feeling is both are a bit overpriced and you're paying for the name.

I've now upped my budget to $600, which is way more than I should be spending, but I'd rather just get a decent quality bike now than pay for it later in repairs and constant adjustments later. After today's test rides, I'm REALLY wanting a DS bike, but of course my budget keeps me from a decent LBS DS bike. After reading the reviews of the Motobecane 700DS, which are all very positive, the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on it is the negative comments I get from here.


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## istandalone (Feb 6, 2011)

for $600, you can get one of these. for the price, totally decent.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI272B15-Jamis+Dakar+Xc+Bike+09.aspx


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

bones72751 said:


> our bikes


i think this explains it all.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

istandalone said:


> for $600, you can get one of these. for the price, totally decent.
> 
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI272B15-Jamis+Dakar+Xc+Bike+09.aspx


Maybe I'm missing something, but the above bike looks inferior to the Dawes Roundhouse for a price that's $140.00 more including shipping. As a "noob" I have to ask. What makes the Jamis $140.00 better than the Dawes?


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Something else I've been thinking about. Bear with me as I really don't know what I'm talking about here. I know that everyone here is in agreement that cheap DS bikes like say the Moto 400DS have the "pogo" effect especially when going uphill. That is caused 100% by the cheap rear shock though correct? Wouldn't it be possible to just put a top of the line shock, say like the Fox Float on the back to make a great riding DS400?

Actually there is someone on these very forums that have done that very thing with a Moto 400DS. Here's part of his review:

*Excellent bike for the money. If you will do just cross country this bike is perfect as is. Light, good breaks, tough rims and shocks. I ride it 2 - 3 times per week in some tough terrain in the Alafia Park on Blacks and Double Blacks. For these demending trails I upgraded the front fork to Marzocchi Bomber 44 Air 140mm tarvel and the back coil to a Fox Float with 2.75 inch travel, all from ebay. Now I have an awesome bike which can take any terrain for $800.*

I realize the frame is still heavier than a top of the line Trek or Specialized, but all other things aside, wouldn't what the happy user above did make sense?


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Your mind is made up, buy one of those bikes and be blissful in your ignorance! A cheap bike is better than no bike at all, and if it makes you happy then do it. You've gotten your share of sound advice and it is your decision to make from here on. If what you want is a full suspension bike, then buy one. I think most people are finished trying to give you much advice because you're apparently finished listening to it. You got all the advice in the world from [mostly] experienced riders and people familiar with the industry based on experiences in the past. Make your decision and ride a bike. Make sure to post pictures when you pick one, it's the only way to keep our attention for more than a post or two!


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## ICAsh (Sep 24, 2009)

zebrahum said:


> Your mind is made up, buy one of those bikes and be blissful in your ignorance!... I think most people are finished trying to give you much advice because you're apparently finished listening to it.... You got all the advice in the world from [mostly] experienced riders and people familiar with the industry based on experiences in the past.


^^ This. Why ask for advice if you won't listen to it?

Buy the bike you want, that you'll have fun riding, and then go ride the heck out of it. That's all there is to it.


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

kbohip said:


> Something else I've been thinking about. Bear with me as I really don't know what I'm talking about here. I know that everyone here is in agreement that cheap DS bikes like say the Moto 400DS have the "pogo" effect especially when going uphill. That is caused 100% by the cheap rear shock though correct? Wouldn't it be possible to just put a top of the line shock, say like the Fox Float on the back to make a great riding DS400?
> 
> Actually there is someone on these very forums that have done that very thing with a Moto 400DS. Here's part of his review:
> 
> ...


No. It's not a pogo effect while climbing...it's a pogo effect constantly. Uphill, downhill, flatland.

A bike is MORE than the components. If you put a v-8 into a yugo, you'd still have a junker...albeit a little faster. (I don't know computer talk to make the relative comparison).

There is no way that a 140mm fork is appropriate for the frame. That would change the geometry to a ridiculous degree (like an easy rider chopper), as well as void any type of warranty. The fork on the DS is about an 80mm or 100mm fork (the description doesn't even list the travel...red flag) and the bike SHOULD be designed for that...the same way a corvette is designed to NOT have monster truck wheels/tires. Hence, that review loses a great deal of credibility.

It is apparent you have your mind set and are not receiving the affirmation you are hoping for.

Get the DS and have a great time with it.

Be safe.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

dude. a 29er rolls better than a 26er. i went from a 26 with a fox f120 to rigid 29er. i perfer the rigid 29er. better small bump absorption than a 26er sus fork pumped up to keep me from bobbing all over the place. get a front sus 29er. personally i recommend SS. but that is a different conversation, as i live at 600 ft. id prolly go geared if i lived with real elevation gain.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

will-lee wonka said:


> No. It's not a pogo effect while climbing...it's a pogo effect constantly. Uphill, downhill, flatland.
> 
> A bike is MORE than the components. If you put a v-8 into a yugo, you'd still have a junker...albeit a little faster. (I don't know computer talk to make the relative comparison).
> 
> ...


Last night, my mind WAS made up. I was either going to get the 700DS or the Roundhouse 2500. Then I read a 3 year old thread comparing the Moto Fantom DS Comp (apparently a very nice DS bike for $1100.00) and the 700DS. It's in this thread I finally found my answer to the question of why are the more expensive DS bikes "better". The owner of the Moto Fantom DS basically explained to the owner of the 700DS that the reason you just can't put a nice Fox or other top end shock on the back of the 700 is suspension travel. The 700 has at best 2 inches of travel whereas the Moto Comp has 5 inches.

Now it makes sense to me. It's all in the amount of travel. 2 inches is nothing and once I put my 220 pound butt on that 700DS I'll probably be lucky to have 1 inch of travel. Therefore the 400-700 series DS setup Motos become all but useless to me. It wouldn't matter if I upgraded the back shock to a nice Fox air shock either, as it would still only have a very limited amount of suspension travel to work with.

I thank you guys for all of the good advice you gave in this thread. Contrary to what you might think, I was listening and it did help me. At the very least it planted a seed of doubt in me regarding cheap DS bikes so I went and researched the Hell out of it. It's now time to start the search for a nice HT bike that I'll probably end up putting a Thud Buster on. My plan now is to get a decent HT bike for this year and then upgrade to a nice DS setup next year. I'll just give the old HT to my wife as she and I need the saem size frame.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

good to hear. one important thing to think about. are you going to do most of your wrenching? i dont just mean maintenance. i mean major part replacement. if not, definitely go to an lbs. ignore the low prices online. i only say that because you need to find a shop where you can cultivate a relationship. you have to commit to a shop to get the greatest reward. sometimes you get burned. but eventually youll find a good shop. specially out in the springs.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Op you need to do more research, so far all of the advice here are very useful hardtail is a good choice as less can go wrong with it. Sure beats getting the cheap FS. The only way to know what's good for you is to test ride them. Check out the good designs, against the cheap ones. It's not the just components, it's the design.

I can put the same shock that's on the 700ds, on my Ibis Mojo and the bike still climb well but has poor damping, but putting premium shock on a poorly design full suspension would still make a poor pedaling bike.

To give you an idea of what is available in your price range
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/bik/2275117877.html
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/bik/2267830453.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/bik/2290538283.html

These are good pedaling bikes uphill and downhill comfortable, competent. If you have patience one would come around every now and then. Good luck with whatever choices you choose.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

mimi1885 said:


> Op you need to do more research, so far all of the advice here are very useful hardtail is a good choice as less can go wrong with it. Sure beats getting the cheap FS. The only way to know what's good for you is to test ride them. Check out the good designs, against the cheap ones. It's not the just components, it's the design.
> 
> I can put the same shock that's on the 700ds, on my Ibis Mojo and the bike still climb well but has poor damping, but putting premium shock on a poorly design full suspension would still make a poor pedaling bike.
> 
> ...


The Giant Yukon in Denver doesn't look too bad. I'll buy just about anything used except fish tanks, atv's, or MTB's though. Anything that holds water or regularly goes off-road makes me too nervous to buy used, unless I know the owner. Thanks for taking the time to look though Mimi, I do appreciate it. However, please continue reading!

I searched for a new Giant Yukon and came up with what looks to be a good deal! It's from a store that is called GiantNerd.com.:skep: Um, anyway, they have an Airborne Zeppelin Elite. At this point, I'm getting so exhausted and spending so much time looking at MTB's, I'd actually be willing to spend the $800 for it if it is in fact a good FS MTB. I'd appreciate your opinion on this bike.

http://www.giantnerd.com/airborne-zeppelin-elite-mountain-bike-cross-country.html

Since I've gone WAY over my original budget, I've also been looking at the Motobecane Fantom Trail DS. The specs on this Airborne look better to me though for the same price. What do you think?

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantomtrail_ds08.htm


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## poontank (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes, the Airborne is spec'ed better than the Fantom. As an Airborne rider, I've been riding the Zeppelin Elite hard a whole season and it has held up well. It a pretty decent entry level FS rig. I have a couple video reviews posted on my youtube channel. If you are interested in seeing them, let me know and I can send you the links.

I have a couple friends who ride Motobecane and they don't have a lot of good things to say about the frames. The quality control just isn't where it needs to be is what I'm hearing.

Good luck on finding the right bike


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

poontank said:


> Yes, the Airborne is spec'ed better than the Fantom. As an Airborne rider, I've been riding the Zeppelin Elite hard a whole season and it has held up well. It a pretty decent entry level FS rig. I have a couple video reviews posted on my youtube channel. If you are interested in seeing them, let me know and I can send you the links.
> 
> I have a couple friends who ride Motobecane and they don't have a lot of good things to say about the frames. The quality control just isn't where it needs to be is what I'm hearing.
> 
> Good luck on finding the right bike


Both comments are incorrect

1 - single pivot frames are much cheaper to make than 4-bar link

2 - motobecane frames are made in the same frame shops that build for Trek, Specialized, Fuji, etc and to the exact same QC standards

that said; there is nothing wrong with the Airborne at all
and I am sure it is a nice bike for the money


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## blunderbuss (Jan 11, 2004)

bikesdirect said:


> Both comments are incorrect
> 
> 1 - single pivot frames are much cheaper to make than 4-bar link
> 
> 2 - motobecane frames are made in the same frame shops that build for Trek, Specialized, Fuji, etc and to the exact same QC standards


Typical.

1. Which comment are you responding to? He didn't talk about which frame "costs" more.

2. So your customers judgements based on actual hands on experience with your products are incorrect?


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## bikesdirect (Nov 7, 2006)

blunderbuss said:


> Typical.
> 
> 1. Which comment are you responding to? He didn't talk about which frame "costs" more.
> 
> 2. So your customers judgements based on actual hands on experience with your products are incorrect?


1. - Specs include frame. Frame cost effects overall spec/value ratio

2. - Some judgements are correct; some are not [such is the nature of judgement]
If you read all posts by owners of Motobecanes and all reveiws you will find the same variation in opinions that you see concerning Trek, Specialized, Fuji, etc. Truth is simple; quality and overall QC can not be different as they are done in the same factories, by same workers, using the same materials, with the same tools & instructions.

and I stand by my statement: the Airbourne is a perfectly good bike at a fair price. I think most riders would enjoy it fine.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Reading the reviews from members on this forum about the Motobecane 700DS, it seems almost all of them are very favorable towards the bike. I would think that if the rear suspension was such junk there would at least be a few people who comment on "pogo" like ride, lack of travel, etc. On the contrary it looks like the people who bought them are quite happy with them.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

kbohip said:


> Keep in mind 95% of my riding will be done on paved trails.
> 
> 
> > After reading this, then reading that the OP was even considering a FS bike I knew I should have stopped reading the thread right then:madman:
> ...


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

DavidR1 said:


> kbohip said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind 95% of my riding will be done on paved trails.
> ...


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

kbohip said:


> Let's just say I have my reasons for wanting a DS bike. .


You might think you do, but you really are far from needing a FS bike.

Seriously, roots and gravel


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

kbohip said:


> Reading the reviews from members on this forum about the Motobecane 700DS, it seems almost all of them are very favorable towards the bike. I would think that if the rear suspension was such junk there would at least be a few people who comment on "pogo" like ride, lack of travel, etc. On the contrary it looks like the people who bought them are quite happy with them.


Make sure you get the lock out upgrade, and get the right size, get some mini tools pumps and helmet/gloves. Have fun:thumbsup:


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## FlyingSharks (Mar 4, 2011)

istandalone said:


> just about spewed coffee on the monitor when i read this. i think bones72751 is butthurt lol.
> 
> http://www.bigboxbikes.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=125&sid=1556a6fffbe676280d99ed6f37ec2194


I didn't realize this was out there, though I guess I could see why it's needed: 
"Support for those who ride BigBox Bicycles including WalMart and Target"

As for the original poster's question... I have to agree with everybody else's advice: don't go with low price point full suspension. Even if it did help your back, I think you would have less fun riding because of the extra weight and all of the lost energy from an ineffecient pedal stroke, especially going up hills. Also maintenance of the rear suspension and linkages is an added issue. My suspicion is that you could be happy on a hardtail, and a 29 would feel a bit less jarring.

If there really is an issue with back pain from riding one, then a bouncy seatpost would be an option further down the road. But maybe you won't even need one!? Or if your back is injured and you feel you can't ride a hardtail without damaging it, then you probably should stick to smooth surfaces (for which you do not need suspension anyway, but you still might want a suspension seatpost [edit: this option would probably be best for the degraded bike path you described... it's sounds more like an issue of comfort, not performance... a cheap FS sacrifices too much performance.])


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

FlyingSharks said:


> I didn't realize this was out there, though I guess I could see why it's needed:
> "Support for those who ride BigBox Bicycles including WalMart and Target"


What they really need is a Twelve Step Program, Walgoose anonymous.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Finally I've made my decision! I've taken the advice of everyone here and decided to go with a HT. I'm going for a Motobecane 700HT on Ebay for $496.00 shipped. My goal is to use this bike for a year until I can get up the funds to buy a really nice DS. My wife will inherit the 700HT then as she also needs a new bike and has the same inseam as I do. I may add a suspension seatpost as was suggested above. Who knows, maybe I'll like this bike so much I won't even bother with a DS at all.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

kbohip said:


> Finally I've made my decision! I've taken the advice of everyone here and decided to go with a HT. I'm going for a Motobecane 700HT on Ebay for $496.00 shipped. My goal is to use this bike for a year until I can get up the funds to buy a really nice DS. My wife will inherit the 700HT then as she also needs a new bike and has the same inseam as I do. I may add a suspension seatpost as was suggested above. Who knows, maybe I'll like this bike so much I won't even bother with a DS at all.


Wise choice, Grasshopper. Your climbing and bike handling skills will soar, on the hardtail. Descending on the HT will require you make snap line choice decisions, on the trail. Either way...it's a win-win situation.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

Zachariah said:


> Wise choice, Grasshopper. Your climbing and bike handling skills will soar, on the hardtail. Descending on the HT will require you make snap line choice decisions, on the trail. Either way...it's a win-win situation.


I can't wait for it to come in. Going from a never tuned 24 year old, steel frame, rigid, Diamondback to this should definitely be an improvement for me.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

actually, my advice was for a 29er HT. 

but a 26 HT is still way better than a cheap DS. hope the wait aint too long, yo. 

enjoy the ride!!!


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

Good call, have fun.


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## bclagge (Aug 31, 2009)

kbohip said:


> Sorry to ruin your whole day, aw what am I saying, no I'm not. You are correct in that I said I do 95% of my riding on paved trails, but, these are not smooth trails. There are quite a few spots now where tree roots have pushed up the tarmac and split it open. These are not small spots either, they are enough that this path is not navigable by road bikes any longer. There are also stretches that the tarmac is gone and replaced with broken rubble and rocks. Let's just say I have my reasons for wanting a DS bike. I'm here to learn though and if the lower end DS bikes are crap, obviously I'm not going to buy one. I'll go with an HT and maybe upgrade in a year or two to a nice DS.


Proper riding technique in that situation is to stand up in the pedals and let your legs be your suspension. There's no busted sidewalk in the 1st world that can't be navigated by a road bike if you do it right. Congratulations on choosing a hardtail! This will help you learn the proper techniques faster. Attack position is your best friend. Study it. Be it.


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## kbohip (Mar 24, 2011)

bclagge said:


> Proper riding technique in that situation is to stand up in the pedals and let your legs be your suspension. There's no busted sidewalk in the 1st world that can't be navigated by a road bike if you do it right. Congratulations on choosing a hardtail! This will help you learn the proper techniques faster. Attack position is your best friend. Study it. Be it.


I grew up riding MTB's on rocky Colorado trails. There were NO shocks back then! I'm well aware of the need to let my legs be the suspension. I'm just older now and don't want to hop off the seat for every small to medium sized bump. Sometimes I wonder if all of the BMX jumping followed by MTB jumping led to some of the lower back problems I have today. Heh, even if it did, I don't regret it.


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## poontank (Apr 5, 2004)

You made the right decision when you decided to ride  Have a great time out there!


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## Zero260 (Aug 31, 2009)

Very good choice.

I have been very impressed with Motobecane Hardtails.


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