# XP-G Optics. What works?



## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

So now that the XP-G has been out for a month, what are you finding that works? 

I'm looking to build a few triple XP-G lights but I've heard mixed reviews of the Carclo 20mm triple, and I'm not sure if I need to redesign for a different optic, wait and see if anyone comes out with something better, or just use the current optic.

It would be for a helmet light and I prefer a good spot beam. I like to have enough light to see 100-200 ft out.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=563271 ...new stuff on the bottom.

Others will have mixed comments. Jury is still out for me, but ...100-200 is a real stretch if you want some serious lumen power to get that far.

Lenses will catch up to the tech ...they always seem to.


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Ledil LC1 RS in a custom holder. great spot with an XPG. I would say that 200 is easy in a triple config with that optic.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Zen, that's an XR-E optic isn't it?

I had a sneaky suspicion that optics designed for bigger LED's might provide a tighter beam pattern


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

oops, gremlins in the attic, sorry


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

I have used this, both 10 and 25 degs.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut882

Not impressed with either, tons of sidespill, not a huge ammount going forwards!

I am speaking with Cutter at the moment for suggestions


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

Yeah, I've been watching all of the threads about the XP-G, and beamshots are nice, but it's really hard to tell by a picture what the beams are like in real life. I like Troutie's beamshots at his usual spot because they give a pretty good indicator of what the lights are like on the trail.

To clarify, I don't expect to be able to see every detail at 150 ft, but I want to be able to see large objects (deer, people, etc.). I have a L & M HID that works well enough if anyone has used one of those.

Does anyone know if Carclo (or anyone else) is planning a 1" (25.4mm) 3 up optic? I would think that by going a little larger they would be able to maintain the same beam pattern as the current 20mm XP-E triple.


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

...


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Yes that is an XRE optic. They are actually coming out with that same optic for the XPG, just with a different holder.

It makes a very spotty beam. Almost flashlight spot.


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

Just modified some Polymer Optics lenses with a craft knife, (as the holders were designed for Rebel Leds) the 6 degree optic ( pol part number 120) seems quite a good mix of throw and spread with the xpg.

If it ever stops raining here I might be able to get some beam shots... but not tonight!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

zen bicycle said:


> Yes that is an XRE optic. They are actually coming out with that same optic for the XPG, just with a different holder.
> 
> It makes a very spotty beam. Almost flashlight spot.


Any idea when and will it still be in a 20mm diameter form?

Thanks


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

bumphumper said:


> Just modified some Polymer Optics lenses with a craft knife, (as the holders were designed for Rebel Leds) the 6 degree optic ( pol part number 120) seems quite a good mix of throw and spread with the xpg.
> 
> If it ever stops raining here I might be able to get some beam shots... but not tonight!


Now this sounds really interesting! It would be great to see beamshots of these modified optics. Did you only need to modify the holders to fit the opening for the LED or was there some height issue? Why did you pick the rebel optics over the XPE poly optics?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zen bicycle said:


> Yes that is an XRE optic. They are actually coming out with that same optic for the XPG, just with a different holder.
> 
> It makes a very spotty beam. Almost flashlight spot.


Since you're saying this is there anyway you can post a photo of a beam shot or a link to one? A tight spot optic is what I'm waiting for. Only then am I going to consider DIY with the xp-g.


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Me too, I want a quad XPG with a narrow optic, helmet light. Hey WeLight, how's about jumping in here!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I think you are all being a bit obsessed with spots and throw and are missing the bigger picture here .

just because the XPG makes an optic throw a wider beam does not make it bad imho .

look at Ktronics shots the throw is still there but with the wider beam and extra light available it then becomes a sweeter light .

spots and floods were an issue with the earlier leds because they did not have enough light to do both jobs .

we have a led here the xpg which chucks out an unbelievable amount of light 
where a single on the head and a single on the bars would shame a lot of the comercial 
products out there . and think of the small batteries and runtimes you would get

single XPG I could ride with that 









the optics will get there soon it is early days and things are moving fast .

but at least we are not smitten with the hopeless optic choice we had when the MCE was born we do have some good useable optics to play with till something better comes along and it will .


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

Thanks Troutie, that's what I'm looking for. Real world shots. Do you happen to have a shot of the Carclo 3-up narrow?


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

Hey Troutie... which optic is that in your beamshot? I am building some small lights that are two XPG's, one for the helmet and one for the bars... long runtime, plenty of light and small batteries... and that pattern looks about right... is that the 10mm narrow optic?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

tamen00 said:


> Hey Troutie... which optic is that in your beamshot? I am building some small lights that are two XPG's, one for the helmet and one for the bars... long runtime, plenty of light and small batteries... and that pattern looks about right... is that the 10mm narrow optic?


Yep it is the carclo 10417 my favorite xp optic and imho a real good one for the XPG .

the best of the tiny ones


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mtbikerTi said:


> Thanks Troutie, that's what I'm looking for. Real world shots. Do you happen to have a shot of the Carclo 3-up narrow?


Not with the XPG but search for Ktroniks thread and some are on there


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Since you're saying this is there anyway you can post a photo of a beam shot or a link to one? A tight spot optic is what I'm waiting for. Only then am I going to consider DIY with the xp-g.


Sorry no beam shots as I am getting them out the door as fast as I build them. Think of the XRE LED and spot optic then just make it brighter.

I will take beam shots of the next one I build.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

zen bicycle said:


> Sorry no beam shots as I am getting them out the door as fast as I build them. Think of the XRE LED and spot optic then just make it brighter.
> 
> *I will take beam shots of the next one I build.*


Cool... ...I'd like to see beam shots showing some throw with your 4-up narrow set-up.
If possible somewhere on a natural surface ( ballfield, fireroad, paved trail..etc. ) If this does what you say it does it should throw 200 ft. without any problems.

*Troutie wrote:*


> I think you are all being a bit obsessed with spots and throw and are missing the bigger picture here .
> 
> just because the XPG makes an optic throw a wider beam does not make it bad imho .
> 
> look at Ktronics shots the throw is still there but with the wider beam and extra light available it then becomes a sweeter light


Well...perhaps, but I'd like to see what Zen is talking about first. For bar mounting I have no problems with the standard optics. I do however want more light pushed forward for a helmet light. If Zen's quad xp-g narrow set-up can beat my current quad XR-E set-up, he might be seeing another sale. I'll wait to compare beam shots first ( his vs. standard 10mm narrow ) then I'll make a decision one way or another.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I just thought I would throw my inexperienced hat in the ring…

I have just finished my first DIY light which consists of four XP-G R5 LEDs driven by a Kaidomain “kennan” driver. These are in a square pattern and wired 2S2P and therefore each emitter receives 500 mA. I am also using the Carclo 10417 narrow optics. My calculations from the Cree data sheets indicate that I should be expecting at least 778 lumens from the light.

Initial tests in my garden looked very promising – a very bright light with no obvious banding or hot–spots. I went out for my first ride on the road last night and was I have to say, a little disappointed. The beam seemed quite floody and not as focussed as I would have liked.

In comparison with my riding partner’s Dinotte 200L and my Hope Vision 1 there was absolutely no contest. The sheer amount of light from my new DIY swamped them both completely. It’s just that for my purposes of reasonably fast road riding (average speed 16 mph), I would have liked the overall pattern to be a little tighter with a bit more throw.

It may well be however, that off-road the pattern produced will be more useful. Driving at higher currents may well also produce a more piercing light with more throw – I assume troutie that you are driving that single XP-G in the picture at 1A?

Apologies for no beam shots but I am going out for my first ever off-road ride at night on Thursday and will take the camera along and try and take some pictures. I only have a fully automatic compact camera however so will have to see how they turn out.

Regards,

OTH


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Ledil CXP RS (tightest optic I could find).

XP-G vs E 
Some funny stuff going on with the die projection off centre on the E.
The G is actually a much cleaner beam.


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## Kaitsu (Jun 12, 2006)

Might have same issue as I. All my XPG's where a litttle bit off center:


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Znomit, this is what I was referring to the LC1 designed for the XRE
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_LC1-TAPE.pdf
slightly deeper lens so the throw is very tight. Not sure if it is as tight as the lxp/cxp series, but it was so tight I personally wouldn't run two spots together as a single light.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

OverTheHill said:


> I just thought I would throw my inexperienced hat in the ring&#8230;
> 
> I have just finished my first DIY light which consists of four XP-G R5 LEDs driven by a Kaidomain "kennan" driver. These are in a square pattern and wired 2S2P and therefore each emitter receives 500 mA. I am also using the Carclo 10417 narrow optics. My calculations from the Cree data sheets indicate that I should be expecting at least 778 lumens from the light.
> 
> ...


*Nice light. It deserves its own thread with build details and beam shots*..........:thumbsup:


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

odtexas said:


> *Nice light. It deserves its own thread with build details and beam shots*..........:thumbsup:


Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're coming 

I didn't want to post too early and have someone on my case about beamshots. 

Thanks for the thumbsup.

Regards,

OTH


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

Kaitsu said:


> Might have same issue as I. All my XPG's where a litttle bit off center:


someone needs hand lotion.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> Ledil CXP RS (tightest optic I could find).
> 
> XP-G vs E
> Some funny stuff going on with the die projection off centre on the E.
> The G is actually a much cleaner beam.


*znomit.*..How far to the wall from the light? How wide is the spot? Without references this is not helping. Thanks for the beam shots though and the Ledil link. With winter coming up it might be time for me to start buying some stuff to play around with. How much is a single Ledil optic? If they're not too expensive I'd like to buy at least 4 to do some of my own comparisons.


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

With regard to the modified Pol optics, I wouldnt bother!!!! The beam looked promising in the driving rain in my garden at 60', but in the woods tonight at a greater distance, the carclo triple was clearly more efficient although with a slightly wider beam. 

I only tried the Pol because they were in the parts bin and were 6 degree so I thought it worth a try.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK some beamshots .

first one is 4 XPE R2 leds and the carclo 10417 narrow optic @ 1000 ma

second is 4 XPG R5 leds and the carclo 10417 @ 1000 ma

third is 6 XPG R5 leds in the Liberator carclo 10417 @ 1000 ma

forth is the 7 up XPG R5 with 6 degree optic @ 1000 ma

this applies to both sets of pics

cameras the good old F4 @ 6 secs daylight

distance to the trees is a paced out 75 metres approx the trees were quite big








4 - XPE R2 CARCLO 10417 OPTIC @ 1000MA







4 - XPG R5 CARCLO 10417 OPTIC @ 1000MA







6 XPG R5 CARCLO 10417 OPTIC @ 1000MA IN THE LIBERATOR







7 UP AND 6 DEGREE OPTIC @ 1000MA


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

.....the trees were quite big 

The crescent of light in the nearground of the last few shots is an excellent addition, is that the 'liberator effect' or is that the xpg?

Keep up the good work!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bumphumper said:


> .....the trees were quite big
> 
> The crescent of light in the nearground of the last few shots is an excellent addition, is that the 'liberator effect' or is that the xpg?
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Next to last pic is the liberator and sweet on the bike


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> *znomit.*..How far to the wall from the light? How wide is the spot? Without references this is not helping. Thanks for the beam shots though and the Ledil link. With winter coming up it might be time for me to start buying some stuff to play around with. How much is a single Ledil optic? If they're not too expensive I'd like to buy at least 4 to do some of my own comparisons.


Its from bench to ceiling, the idea was to show the E-G difference. Looking at the optics today the XP-E optic wasn't quite seated in the holder which likely explains the ugly beam. Will try to get some proper shots tonight.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

ding dong, that 7up is nice!!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Update on the Ledil CXP RS with the optics sitting correctly now.  

G is on top. Guesstimate 6.5 and 9.5 degree FWHM. The combo should be a good roadie beam. XP-E still way ahead on throw, maybe twice as bright, if I rode on the flats all the time I'd go with dual XP-Es but the G should help in the twisty stuff. 

R2 XP-E and R5 XP-G.

Sorry about the tint difference.

The die is still visible but nicely centred over the spot... more noticeable in the photos. 
I quite like these optics.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I have the Ledil datasheet for Ledil LXP lenses for XP-E where the LXP Real Spot lens is specified with a FWHM angle of +-3 degrees. Has anybody used these? Cutter's only list the LXP for XP-G where the Real Spot is rated at +-5.5 degrees.

Regards,

OTH


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

OverTheHill said:


> I have the Ledil datasheet for Ledil LXP lenses for XP-E where the LXP Real Spot lens is specified with a FWHM angle of +-3 degrees. Has anybody used these? Cutter's only list the LXP for XP-G where the Real Spot is rated at +-5.5 degrees.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> OTH


I'm guessing its the same optic in LXP and CXP but in a round holder instead of square. 
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_LXP_XPG.pdf


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I have a LXP on order but its back ordered so no idea when it will actually show up.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bikerjay said:


> I have a LXP on order but its back ordered so no idea when it will actually show up.


If you're getting it from Cutter's then I presume that'll be the 5.5 deg LXP.

I have found that Digi-Key do the 3 degree LXP. I might order a couple from there to try them out.

Will they work with the XP-G do you think or will I need to order some XP-Es?

Regards,

OTH


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I may be presuming too much but I think there is only 1 part for the ledil xp-g and xp-e lens and that it will make a 3deg with the xp-e and a 5.5 with the xp-g. This what I am hoping for as I have found single spot lights to work well with beams of approx 10deg.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bikerjay said:


> I may be presuming too much but I think there is only 1 part for the ledil xp-g and xp-e lens and that it will make a 3deg with the xp-e and a 5.5 with the xp-g. This what I am hoping for as I have found single spot lights to work well with beams of approx 10deg.


I think you are right, a bit iffy of Ledil to issue a datasheet for the XP-G though and just rerate the RS at 5.5 degrees over the XP-E's 3 degrees

I've just checked up on the Carclo 10417 that I am using - FWHM 16.4 degrees - no wonder I think it's floody!

Regards,

OTH


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

Heres an animated image of the 4 narrow optics:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with these photos. For one not too much difference between the two. Secondly, if you look carefully it seems the photo of the xpg was more centered ( on the tree ) than the other. That being the case, the xpg is just a little wider. I don't think I would use this optic unless it was intended for bar use. If I could of seen the tree line clearly I would of been impressed. Hopefully my expectations are not too high for a quad helmet mounted but if that's the case I might have to think 6 or 7-up on the helmet.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

OverTheHill said:


> I've just checked up on the Carclo 10417 that I am using - FWHM 16.4 degrees - no wonder I think it's floody!


Yes, here is a triple XPE 20mm 16.5 deg in series with a single CXP RS XPG.
About the same brightness, as you'd expect.
The triple is quite good on the MTB but not so much for the road.

Zen I wouldn't mix XR and XP optics.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Just to update my earlier comments about my new light being a bit floody for my road use, I went out for my first ever night MTB ride last night. I have to say the new light really came into it's own off-road. The beam pattern was absolutely perfect especially coupled with a tighter headlight. I can see what you guys on on about with your kilo-lumen, bush burners now!  :thumbsup: 

Regards,

OTH

p.s. Night MTBing rocks!!!


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Not sure what you men by mixing optics. If you use a custom holder it works fantastic. Not sure if it is any better than the lxp or not as i don't have one yet. This is just from testing


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## mtbikerTi (Jan 15, 2004)

Has anyone used the 25.4mm Khatod 4-up optic with the XP-G yet? It's a 10 degree with the XP-E, a little better than the Carclo 3-up narrow.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

yeah, I have one that I have tried, and it really is no better than the 3up with the XPG... still very floody with not a lot of throw.


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## OldNick (Aug 7, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with these photos. For one not too much difference between the two. Secondly, if you look carefully it seems the photo of the xpg was more centered ( on the tree ) than the other. That being the case, the xpg is just a little wider. I don't think I would use this optic unless it was intended for bar use. If I could of seen the tree line clearly I would of been impressed. Hopefully my expectations are not too high for a quad helmet mounted but if that's the case I might have to think 6 or 7-up on the helmet.


That tree is 75 metres away. That's quite a way. If you get a wider beam from the xpg and still pretty much the same distant brightness, then it does seem to me to be a significant gain.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

OldNick said:


> That tree is 75 metres away. That's quite a way. If you get a wider beam from the xpg and still pretty much the same distant brightness, then it does seem to me to be a significant gain.


Come this time of year I always make it a point to NEVER argue with St. Nick... :ihih:  :

( Sorry but I just couldn't resist the poke .  )


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## dan THE man (Jan 21, 2009)

Once again, I get an idea ready for making and something else comes along and I have to start again.

So my question is; should I put the mc-e prototype in the draw and buy some xp-g's???

I'm currently using an mc-e with ledli cmc and two xr-e for some extra throw but with a xp-g triple at only *20mm* will I get the best of both worlds????

Thank you in advance for your wisdom and knowlage, I'm sure my other half will be sooooo pleased I have to spend more time reading your replies.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

Anyone seen beamshots of LXP?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Itess said:


> Anyone seen beamshots of LXP?


I'm pretty sure its the same as CXP(see my posts earlier) just in a round holder. 
Likely the tightest in the ~20mm range. I'm guessing the polymer optic will be a little lighter but beam not so nice.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I have a nearly finished single xp-g light in my hand right now that uses the LXP, and I think znomit is right that its the same optic with a different holder. Its a very nice tight beam with a reasonable amount of spill, zero dark rings or other artifacts. If I had a manual setting digital I would take some beam shots, maybe i can borrow one at some point. I can tell you its a considerably tighter beam than the 10mm Carclo square. 
I used to have a Ledil 20mm optic light, now sold, that used a single MC-E, it had some major doughnut hole issues and the edge of the spill had a flower pattern, not great.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

bikerjay said:


> I have a nearly finished single xp-g light in my hand right now that uses the LXP, and I think znomit is right that its the same optic with a different holder. Its a very nice tight beam with a reasonable amount of spill, zero dark rings or other artifacts. If I had a manual setting digital I would take some beam shots, maybe i can borrow one at some point. I can tell you its a considerably tighter beam than the 10mm Carclo square.
> I used to have a Ledil 20mm optic light, now sold, that used a single MC-E, it had some major doughnut hole issues and the edge of the spill had a flower pattern, not great.


I would concur with what bikerjay says. I also have just completed a single XP-G R5 light but using the CXP Square Real Spot. This is rated in the Ledil Data Sheet at +-4 degrees but is generally accepted to be nearer +-5.5 degrees with the XP-G. It does produce quite a nice spot beam (~350 lumens @ 1000mA) however with a longer throw than my 4 x XP-G Picasso light which uses the Carclo 10417 optic.

I am currently working on a double version of this light which should put out around 700 lumens being driven at 1000 mA. I will post details and beamshots when finished.

Regards,

OTH


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

OverTheHill said:


> I would concur with what bikerjay says.


Thanks guys!  Gonna order CXP & LXP from Cutter  Anyone knows when Tina-XP-G will be on the shelves?  I wanna try everything


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

The lxp has a slightly more intense hotspot with slightly less spill than the cxp.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

some shots of the polymer optics part no 120 on the xpg


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with these photos. For one not too much difference between the two. Secondly, if you look carefully it seems the photo of the xpg was more centered ( on the tree ) than the other. That being the case, the xpg is just a little wider. I don't think I would use this optic unless it was intended for bar use. If I could of seen the tree line clearly I would of been impressed. Hopefully my expectations are not too high for a quad helmet mounted but if that's the case I might have to think 6 or 7-up on the helmet.


here you go Cat these show the difference a lot better

https://w199.photobucket.com/pbwidget.swf?pbwurl=https://w199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/b458e675.pbw


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