# Riser Bar "Upsweep"...



## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

Thought I would poll the mtbr collective about upsweep. This applies universally to mountain bikes with riser bars but wanted to ask those here their take if not preference for upsweep with riser bars. Riser bars by nature have to bend up to achieve rise. This isn't a complicated concept but my take on this is...this isn't what the spec of upsweep provided by handlebar mfr's denotes. I believe the spec of upsweep provided by mfr's pertains to the amount of upward angle the handle end points when the bar is mounted nominally. If you think about it, if you rotate the bar in the stem clamp this changes not only backsweep but amount of upsweep. So when a riser bar is spec'ed at say 7 degrees backsweep and 4 degrees upsweep, this means, when the bar is positioned with 4 degrees up bend, it will have a 7 degree rearward bend to horizontal. At least that is my understanding.
Which brings me to the purpose of upsweep. I maybe missing something and perhaps someone can further clarify. Since most riser bars have really three dimensions over an above width... which are backsweep, upsweep and mm's of rise, there must be a perceived benefit of upsweep angle or mfr's would simply spec a bar with backsweep given the ends are not pointing up...the bar being properly positioned horizontally.
Have a look below at the bike Lance Armstrong won Leadville on this past year. I put two yellow lines above his Bonty carbon riser bar he uses. This clearly shows that he rides using the upsweep of the bars. I see an upward angle on many competitors bikes so I am presuming there is some kind of ergonomic advantage to having the bar ends point up like Lance's bike? I would think intuitively bar grips should be horizontal in profile and perhaps have backsweep, but not sure why it is better to point them up a bit. There must be something to it or bars wouldn't be spec'ed with both upsweep and backsweep dimensions.
Thoughts?


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## lumpy ex8 (Dec 11, 2007)

You can also vary the amount of reach and rise slightly if you rotate the bars forward or backward a bit.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

Yup...quite right. One benefit of the popular riser bar. My thought is there must be an ergonomic benefit of spec'ing the bars with an upsweep angle. If I hold my hands straight out without tension, my palms are slightly canted inward which I presume more carefully follows the shape of the grip surface with a slight tilt upward. I believe this maybe the reasoning behind it. This takes the weight off of the inboard side of the hand which would occur if the bars were level with natural rotated angle of the palms. In other words, just like a fractional amount of backsweep best replicates wrist position, apparently the same applies to upsweep relative to natural wrist position in the vertical plane. Only thing I can think of other then the benefit of the hands not sliding off the grips by having them fractionally upturned. This slight upsweep allows the hands to relax tension slightly and not slide off. Both upsweep and backsweep angles are a function of positioning the bar as you say...reach being most notably affected. Most manufacturers suggest as a starting point to orient the rise section of the bar vertically with logo straight ahead which observes the intended bar design. This optimizes the amount of upsweep.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

This is an old thread, but I've been thinking about this upsweep thing since getting my Ritchey WCS carbon lowrizer. 8 degree back sweep, 6 degree upsweep. I don't think I like upsweep, and I think it goes exactly against a natural neutral wrist position which is to have palms facing towards each other slightly, not away from each other. 
So, why do bars angle up like that?


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## Emdhappy (Aug 20, 2010)

Just want to add: upsweep is primarily useful when rider is standing, not seated. It allows rider to pull on bars more comfortably especially while descending. Try standing with downswept/flat bars and one finds the wrists take strain... just my experience. Hence riders who sit a lot may like flat bars or other very backswept/downswept bars. Technical riding is benefited by riser bars with upsweep generally (DH bars). Finding the perfect bar is like finding the perfect saddle etc. to some degree (no pun intended).


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## mforness3000 (Dec 20, 2004)

flat bars generally don't have upsweep...correct? then why do riser bars have upsweep?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

mforness3000 said:


> flat bars generally don't have upsweep...correct? then why do riser bars have upsweep?


Good question.


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## Emdhappy (Aug 20, 2010)

Flat bars of old were generally 3 or 5 degree backswept, some 7 degree maximum. But today 9 degrees or more are common. With a small amount of backsweep the bars were always considered to have no upsweep. However with 9 degree or more backsweep bars one usually does not ride them with the backsweep horizontal/parallel to flat ground, but actually tilt them up so the backsweep is in line with the angle of one's arms.... at least thats the way they are mostly intended to be used. This means that they have some upsweep... So one can take a 9 degree backsweep bar and rotate it upwards so the effective backsweep becomes maybe 6 degrees and the upsweep becomes 2 or 3 degrees, I havent measured but I hope you get my meaning. The latest high degree flat bars are around mainly due to 29ers having a higher front end, and this flat bar mimics a riser bar setup but keeps ones weight lower on the front. Thats the way I see it.

As for why older flat bars had no "upsweep" I think is due to the fact that they were mainly in the comfort zone for seated riding (see my earlier post on my view) and were ideal for use with bar ends. Bar end use seems to be fading as riser bar and new flat bars with more sweep and wider width take preference.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

My thoughts on this haven't really changed since my above post 2 years ago. I have my low riser bar rotated forward to make the grips lower, and also to reduce the upsweep and make the grip area more flat. Its a much more comfortable and natural position for the wrists, IMO.


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## mforness3000 (Dec 20, 2004)

that's a good explanation EMDHappy. thanks. What I take away from your comment is that with a modern flat bar you have a choice whether you want upsweep or not (depending how you rotate your bar) but with a riser bar you don't have a choice...or actually you do have a choice but you would have to rotate it all the way backor foward so there is little to no rise....sounds kinda like what smilinsteve said above. 

So if they made modern riser bars with no upsweep...just backsweep...you could choose to have some upsweep by rotating the bars...???

so I still don't get why all riser bars have upsweep...


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## Emdhappy (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi mforness300, yeah, that is what a modern flat bar can do... obviously there are still many choices of degrees one can choose from to find a great fit! I have tried 12 degree, but is too much. 9 degree is just right for me.

Riser bars have upsweep to cater for more aggressive riding style where one stands over the front wheel and pulls on the bars a lot.

I read this somewhere and it makes sense, you can try it yourself: 
While standing, hold a straight bar/tube/long screwdriver in each hand. Let your arms relax by your sides but keep your knucles facing forward as if you are riding an mtb. Now slowly raise your arms up in front of you till its in a "riding position", during the whole lift from start to finish you will see that the object in your hand is not parallel to the ground, but the inside dips down. This is why upsweep is naturally better for for your hand/wrist. Pulling up on the bars while standing is more of a natural feeling with a small upsweep. But of course we all have our preferences... Riser bars also offer many choices of upsweep, though 9 back and 4/5 up has become most popular it seems.

On a road bike one uses the tops while seated so no upsweep is needed. While standing on a road bike one uses the hoods or drops which is quite different to a flat bar on the mtb, however a flat bar (minimal or no upsweep) is comfortable while seated in my opinion.

Smilinsteve, seems you have found your set up, but am sure you meant you rotate your bars backwards, therefore lowering the grips and reducing upsweep? I think the bars you have with 6 degree upsweep is quite extreme, I am sure most riders would lessen the upsweep. I had an old pair of risers with similar upsweep and it was not comfy! I struggled to get them right, but did get used to them for 3 years...


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Emdhappy said:


> I read this somewhere and it makes sense, you can try it yourself:
> While standing, hold a straight bar/tube/long screwdriver in each hand. Let your arms relax by your sides but keep your knucles facing forward as if you are riding an mtb. Now slowly raise your arms up in front of you till its in a "riding position", during the whole lift from start to finish you will see that the object in your hand is not parallel to the ground, but the inside dips down. This is why upsweep is naturally better for for your hand/wrist. Pulling up on the bars while standing is more of a natural feeling with a small upsweep. But of course we all have our preferences... Riser bars also offer many choices of upsweep, though 9 back and 4/5 up has become most popular it seems.


When I try this test, it is true that the inside tips down if you try to keep your knuckles facing forward, but I see no logic in doing that. If I put my hands in my most comfortable natural position, the outside tips down. 
If you are familiar with gym equipment, I am thinking about the hand position when doing seated low pulley rows, with the close grip triangular type attachment - top of hands pointed inward, bottom of hands pointed out. It seems to be the most neutral, no stress on forearms, while being in the optimum position for pulling. This is the opposite of a hand position using an upswept bar.
(I know that this position would not be easy to duplicate on a mountain bike).


> Smilinsteve, seems you have found your set up, but am sure you meant you rotate your bars backwards, therefore lowering the grips and reducing upsweep? I think the bars you have with 6 degree upsweep is quite extreme, I am sure most riders would lessen the upsweep. I had an old pair of risers with similar upsweep and it was not comfy! I struggled to get them right, but did get used to them for 3 years...


Yes. That is what I meant. I didn't realize that my bar had above average upsweep, but it definitely feels better rotated back.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

a bar with more upsweep might work better with narrower shoulders as the angle of the arm down to the bar is out a bit rather than straight down so the wrist is in alignment better when standing


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## bikershrink (Mar 6, 2013)

I've wondered a lot about upsweep too. I think it has something to do with riders always being told to keep their elbows up and out while riding.
Having come from motorcycles and cafe racers in particular, the bars always had backsweep and downsweep. That seems to be the way my hands naturally reach for bars, and now that both my shoulders have accumulated a lot of "wear and tear" things just feel the best that way.
I've even tried some Mary Bars on a couple of my bikes and they feel great, but may require a bit longer stem.
I just know my shoulders are not fans of upsweep on handlebars.


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