# Aging and the Post-Ride "Hole"



## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Who else feels like the post-ride fatigue "hole" after a long, hard ride is getting a bit deeper with age?

I sure do.

Ideas for combatting this?

Happy 4th!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm tired after a long ride. Hydration seems to be key before and during the ride.
I'm not sure what constitutes a post ride fatigue hole, though.
69 in August. I'm sure my ability to bounce back after a hard ride has gotten worse and will continue to degrade with age, but that's just inevitable. I don't expect I'll be able to ride what I ride now if and when I'm 80.


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## scycllerist (Jul 31, 2017)

kosmo said:


> Who else feels like the post-ride fatigue "hole" after a long, hard ride is getting a bit deeper with age?
> 
> I sure do.
> 
> ...


Sometimes an aspirin before the ride helps. After a few days of riding an anti-inflammatory and a day off helps.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Yeah, aspirin is a good idea at our age. My doctor has me on a baby aspirin a day.
Also, we don't get nearly enough potassium in our diets. It's necessary for hard riding and helps keep BP lower. A can of low sodium V8 has the potassium of 3 bananas. It's a key ingredient in my Bloody Marys post ride. And post walk, post drive to the store, after dinner, before dinner, breakfast...etc.!


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## LITEPHIL (Jan 6, 2005)

kosmo said:


> Who else feels like the post-ride fatigue "hole" after a long, hard ride is getting a bit deeper with age?
> 
> I sure do.
> 
> ...





kosmo said:


> Who else feels like the post-ride fatigue "hole" after a long, hard ride is getting a bit deeper with age?
> 
> I sure do.
> 
> ...


62 here and I've always been wore out after a good ride. Couch time!


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

My methods include: magnesium supplement called "natural calm", which reduced my post ride muscle soreness to almost zero. Also a 20 minute post - ride nap has been shown to speed recovery at any age, and I'm a fan. The magnesium was a game changer for me. Used to get very sore, now almost no muscle soreness.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

I'm gonna give magnesium a try as I'm always sore after a 15+ mile ride to the point it's very hard to get up from a sitting position and start walking. I have to shake my legs to get the blood flow to be able to walk without looking crippled.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

the-one1 said:


> I'm gonna give magnesium a try as I'm always sore after a 15+ mile ride to the point it's very hard to get up from a sitting position and start walking. I have to shake my legs to get the blood flow to be able to walk without looking crippled.











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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

For years I suffered from debilitating bilateral hamstring cramps post ride. These would literally take me to the floor in a restaurant or other equally embarrassing situation. I would be helpless for 2 to 5 minutes per leg, writhing on the floor in a fetal position, waiting for the pain to pass. Kinda funny afterwards, but not really during.

This year I have had none. Not even once. The only thing I have done differently is that I am taking Hammer Endurolyte Extreme electrolyte pills pre, intra and post ride. That's it.

I hit 41 C or 105.8 F on a 4.5 hour ride a week ago. Zero post ride cramping.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I too am a fan of magnesium. Especially if you are on anything like Nexium (or any proton pump inhibitor).
My son dropped these off that we shared after our ride today. Nothing hurts but my lungs!
And I've got "buffalo Soldiers" stuck in my head.


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## Smiles for miles (Feb 26, 2021)

A note re magnesium: you have to start at a low amount and work your way up over a couple of weeks. Otherwise you'll be on the toilet way too much.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

At 72 I'm not really suffering what you report though I have been diagnosed with arthritis in my right knee this year. As soon as I start spinning the pedals, any pain goes away.

I often start a ride with a Clif Shot and one hour into a ride, I take three Clif Bloks plus my water bottle is filled with Gatorade. I usually ride 5 days a week for about 2 hours per ride. Like other's have said, aspirin is a great cure all for me too.

I have no scientific proof to back up any of the things I take during a ride so maybe it's mental.

My riding is a mix of 70% MTB and 30% road and I still like to climb. MTB rides usually are in the 12 - 15 mile range with 1200 feet of climbing. The road rides are more relaxed with less climbing but more miles and often are about 30 miles and almost never less then 20. Since most of my rides are solo, I don't beat myself up trying to keep up with younger riders nor slow down when riding with less experienced riders. I set my own pace.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks for all the input. Mine is weird. Intermittent. Not directly related to ride intensity or duration. Fatigue only. _Never_ muscle soreness.

Yesterday was an example. Family day from about 1 to fireworks, so I kind of pinned it for nearly 3 hours on rugged, rooty, old-school trails. Felt great all day.

Sometimes a nap feels great (yesterday) and sometimes it leaves me with what I call a Nap-Over.

Anecdotal, but the best luck I've had to date is drinking a liter of recovery drink composed of a combination of Hammer Recoverite, water, cranberry juice, and limeade.

Just not really the "reward" I'm looking for after a long, hard ride.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

If I feel not so well after a ride I blame it on not enough beer intake which is always easy to fix and if I feel still not well the next day I blame it on too much beer intake and so on.😉


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

kosmo said:


> Thanks for all the input. Mine is weird. Intermittent. Not directly related to ride intensity or duration. Fatigue only. _Never_ muscle soreness.
> 
> Yesterday was an example. Family day from about 1 to fireworks, so I kind of pinned it for nearly 3 hours on rugged, rooty, old-school trails. Felt great all day.
> 
> ...


Cosmo,
where'd you go? Pig farm?


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

Kosmo


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## Bob-o-matic (Jun 25, 2021)

Lots of health benefits when adding magnesium to your diet. Research suggest it increases elasticity of our vessels... Reducing pressure and increase blood flow. Magnesium [and Vitamin D] supplements significantly reduced my wife's migraines better than anything a doctor could subscribe.... No side effects [for her]. Some people say it helped reduce their high blood pressure. But be careful taking it as a supplement.... It's also a laxative... You've been warned!


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## bigdamo (Jun 11, 2004)

I use magnesium oil via a spray. Yep helps me.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

During the summer I'm mostly a road rider, did a hard 55-miler on Saturday, but after water, carb, protein, and a 25-minute cat nap I was able to complete a home project and tackle some of the honey-do's.
Going back 10 years (to my mid-40-s) I never needed the nap but it really helps me now.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

threepin said:


> where'd you go? Pig farm?


Yup. Love that place!

We should meet up out there some time.

PM if interested (and thanks for taking care of that "Lake Loop Log" way out there on the "other" trail system last week!).


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## KidCharlemagne (Dec 11, 2012)

I turn 60 next month (wait, what! I still think I'm about 35 but the math says otherwise!).

I use AminoLast lemon recovery drink afterwards, plus tons of water. The AminoLast tends to reduce the need for a nap afterwards. It's supposed to have tons of electrolytes.

It's an old joke in my bike club that everyone reaches for "Vitamin I" (ibuprofen, a.k.a., Advil or Motrin) as soon as they get back to the car. Great for inflammation, including hands that feel swollen after a long day in the saddle, or for tender knees. My previous girlfriend was a world-class obstacle course racer in her 50s and got pretty beat up doing the longer races. As pit crew, I had a cup of children's ibuprofen in the correct dose for her body weight ready as soon as she crossed the finish line. She liked the liquid because it got into her system much faster than waiting for a pill to dissolve.

I used to cramp a lot after riding, relatively independent of temperature. I finally figured out that it was from eating a lot of sugar after the ride -- ice cream, cookies, Coke with sugar, or whatever. Metabolizing sugar apparently takes a lot of water so it changes the osmotic balance in your muscles and causes cramping. Not sure I have the science right, but I was able to confirm via experiments that 100% of the time when I ate a significant amount of sugar in the couple hours after a long ride, I would cramp any time from shortly thereafter to sometime in the middle of the night after lying in bed, and almost (but not exactly) 0% of the time I would cramp when I had no sugar after a ride.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

I have never ever seen a single bonafied medical study suggesting over-the-counter supplements are useful.

....and everytime I've asked my doctors about them, they always tell me that the only thing they're good for is making expensive pee pee.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

There's probably not much need for healthy people with good diets to supplement, and there is an important concern about quality assurance, but there is plenty of data to support the use of supplementation.
High risk groups can have digestive problems like Crohn's or celiac disease, and even those who are lactose intolerant often require supplementation.
People with osteoporosis may require extra D and calcium.
There are medications that reduce the absorption of nutrients (PPI's for example) and supplements can help.
The Physicians' Health Study II, published in 2012 by Harvard researchers, found that men who took a daily multivitamin for 11 years had an 8% lower risk of cancer and a 9% lower risk of cataracts compared with a placebo group.
("*Conclusion* In this large prevention trial of male physicians, daily multivitamin supplementation modestly but significantly reduced the risk of total cancer.)
Some research also has found that a formula of vitamin C, vitamin E, carotenoids, zinc, and copper can reduce the progression of age-related macular degeneration, a major cause of vision loss among older adults.
Prenatal vitamin supplementation for pregnant women may not be an absolute requirement, but it's been consistently recommended by doctors for decades.
Low dose aspirin is a widely studied and used supplement.
Darker skinned people at high latitudes are at risk for low vitamin D.
If you think vitamin K2 (Vs. K1) is important, western diets are very low in this nutrient, so supplementation could be useful.
Anyone with a deficiency in a nutrient, for whatever reason, can benefit from supplementation.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

kosmo said:


> Who else feels like the post-ride fatigue "hole" after a long, hard ride is getting a bit deeper with age?
> 
> I sure do.
> 
> ...


It might come from an habit you have. My first suggestion would be drink 3 cups of water in the 8 minutes pre-ride. Maybe just a better hydration will help. Tell us about your habits? Maybe you eat the wrong things? Often i eat noting. Do you ride 5hrs? How old are you?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

kosmo said:


> Thanks for all the input. Mine is weird. Intermittent. Not directly related to ride intensity or duration. Fatigue only. _Never_ muscle soreness.
> 
> Yesterday was an example. Family day from about 1 to fireworks, so I kind of pinned it for nearly 3 hours on rugged, rooty, old-school trails. Felt great all day.
> 
> ...


It sounds like preparation or lack of it.

I can be wiped out by relatively easy rides if I don't hydrate, eat and sleep a day or two before something substantial. For me, it's as/more important as what I do during and after the ride. At those points it's somewhat reactive. If I've prepped well, I can ride for hours without anything and feel alive afterward. If I havern't, no matter what I take on the ride and afterward, it's catch-up and more work.

Add effective ride and recovery nutrition/protocol and the actual recovery becomes trivial.

After scads of pushes in the mountains over 24 hours, I can say with certainty that I'm not good enough to do it without serious prepping and every other tool in my kit. The same principles still apply to short efforts, just less critically.

PS: +1 on aspirin. Also yes on vitamin supplements to ensure against any deficiency (recent blood work showed some). Yes on Emergen-C or other water soluable vitamin replacements while riding extended hours.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Smiles for miles said:


> A note re magnesium: you have to start at a low amount and work your way up over a couple of weeks. Otherwise you'll be on the toilet way too much.


I think that may fall into the "feature Vs. flaw" category. Like coffee in the morning!
I've found that if I take it in a chelated form it's easier on your gut.
I'm on long term omeprazole, so my doctor has me taking the supplement.


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## goyo46 (Feb 19, 2010)

Endurolytes made all the difference for me here in the SW, especially after sweating a lot. On some rides I would drink up to ten large bottles of water, but without electrolyte supplement you're just digging that hole deeper. I started to notice that fatigue went away with mini pretzels. I was losing too much sodium and the energy level would tank. The capsules totally eliminated leg cramps for me, and really helped with recovery. Also, Solgar Curcumin has really helped with inflammation. It's a bit pricey, but works, unlike any turmeric I've tried.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I suspect that the 'benefit' from a lot of those supplements is psychological, either that, or people are not eating actual food but processed industrial rubbish instead.

I haven't done a long ride for 2 years because of CoVid, but went out and did a century the other day. I ate normal food and drank water. No pains, no problems.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

A little late on this thread, but I find with age my recovery gets harder when I push myself to a new level--either I go longer than usual on a ride, or push to go faster, or attack more features. I acclimatize to a routine fairly quickly, but as soon as I add on, I have that additional recovery time. Used to be it was just a little extra soreness for an extra day. Now I can be hobbling around like a post-op case for a day or two.


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## scycllerist (Jul 31, 2017)

Also, I forgot....a nice little ice cream cone does wonders. Especially on those 90 degree days. LOL


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## goyo46 (Feb 19, 2010)

+1 on real food....trail bars and gels etc. work short term but for the distance nothing beats the stuff you eat everyday.
I was lucky enough to share a shuttle with Kurt Refshnider once, and picked his brain about lots of things. He carries pizza, sausages, etc. on his AZT attempts. His #1 enemies are bonking and cramping.
It would be nice to live in an area where it wasn't warm and humid most of the year. Prime season here is winter. Proper hydration is life the rest of the time. Getting older increases recovery time, quite a bit. When I was young, I could ride a century, and then go to work or do other things. Now, I have to lay around the rest of the day and eat.
Talk to the Randoneurs. Most of them are older, and they ride really long distances, back to back.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Trying to climb out of a hole today and go ride. Slept like crap last night but rain tomorrow so I need to ride today. Once I get out there, I should be ok, riding road because it just rained but I think it will be clear the rest of this afternoon.


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## Bob-o-matic (Jun 25, 2021)

I agree with others... sipping electrolyte drinks during ride helps a lot. Foam rolling my legs afterwards is a game changer for the next days aches and pains. 

Has anyone tried mustard for cramps and fatigue during a hard ride. My wife did a half marathon 2 yrs ago and I was on a bike carrying her supplies. I noticed empty mustard packets every where. Asked a few runners doing full marathon and they say it relieves cramps in minutes. Something about mustard seed, vinegar, and inhibiting lactic acid... I know it sounds like witch craft but there was thousands of packets on the roads that day. If it works for u maybe mustard after a ride will help with post ride recovery.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

goyo46 said:


> +1 on real food....trail bars and gels etc. work short term but for the distance nothing beats the stuff you eat everyday.
> I was lucky enough to share a shuttle with Kurt Refshnider once, and picked his brain about lots of things. He carries pizza, sausages, etc. on his AZT attempts. His #1 enemies are bonking and cramping.
> It would be nice to live in an area where it wasn't warm and humid most of the year. Prime season here is winter. Proper hydration is life the rest of the time. Getting older increases recovery time, quite a bit. When I was young, I could ride a century, and then go to work or do other things. Now, I have to lay around the rest of the day and eat.
> Talk to the Randoneurs. Most of them are older, and they ride really long distances, back to back.


On multi- day rides for sure you need protein but for dou rides you want carbs.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Last summer I rode TWE + Jimmy Keen which is about 34 miles, not counting the ride back to town, and a bit over 4 hours. It was in October, so heat wasn't a factor. I had a decent breakfast and at the end of JK, I went to grab a couple of "tide pods" to consume and found I'd forgotten them. It ended up not being a problem at all. I just had more French fries at Milt's.
I once heard someone say that in a survival situation, the fat get skinny and the skinny die. I've got plenty of stored reserves...like maybe 10 pounds!
Actually I guess it was 2019. Time flies.

This got me to thinking about fat burning. About 20 years ago, I went on a low carb diet for a while to lose about 10 pounds. I used ketone strips to monitor it.
Since then, I haven't been low carb at all, just a normal diet.
In the last few years, I've bought ketone strips to monitor fat burning in general. If I go on a 2+ hour ride, or a particularly hard day of skiing in the winter, I'll generally test out at mild to moderate ketosis when I test. I don't feel it, and I don't feel like I'm close to being depleted in energy or bonking. I guess I start converting fat before I run out of glycogen. Anyone else have this experience?


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm right behind the OP, turning 59 this fall. I too experienced the after-ride-fall-off-the-cliff funk. A hard ride would lay me up for 2-3 days before I was ready to hit it again. Last winter I read a couple of Joe Friel's books Fit After 50 and Fast after 50 both highly recommended even if you're not trying to be "fast" as I"m not (but am getting there anyway). To the point of this topic one of the things I took away from his guidance was that immediately (within 30 min) after a hard ride eat some carbs - I think I recall he said he _almost _doesn't care what kind, just that for the next couple hours you have a "hall pass" and the proverbial pizza and beer is not all bad as long as it's limited to immediately (within 30 minutes) post ride. I'm not super strict on my diet but I generally fuel high protein, limited carb routine.
I've been following that advice (not literally pizza/beer... well not every ride) and I notice a significant improvement in my post-ride recovery. Before I was riding every other day AT BEST, and now I can string together multiple consecutive days of hard (for me) riding and it's the 4th or 5th day before my body says "ok, time out!".

Anyway, never mind the pizza/beer (which I'm having now as I type this after setting a PR on a ride this evening).... my REAL point is to read Joe Friel's books for some excellent insight and guidance for us "vintage" riders and how riding is different for us now than it was in our 30's.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

^^^ Totally agree with the eating something significant within 30 minutes. Sometimes, when various factors result in that not happening, it's really hard to eat something else not as "fun" prior to the burger/pizza/burrito, and I feel like I pay the price.

Also agree on the multiple day issue. On Boys Road Trips, I almost always feel like the 4th day isn't my "friend"!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

The eating post ride is planned before the ride. I walk in, get shoes and socks off than it might be popcorn n beer
or oatmeal these are ready in 5 minutes or it can be a left over of rice and beans/lentils.


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