# Going over the bars -Specialized enduro large-turbo levo M (setup advice)



## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

Hi guys.
got an enduro 2016 in size large and a turbo Levo 2020 in Size M. I am 174 cm and weight 98kg (all muscle) 😂

when I go to tech downhill tracks (those with drops rocky sections) with the enduro, I always feel I am going over the bars, to the point I walk some of the sections since I do feel the front wheel like locking up when rolling over the drops.

this does not happen with the turbo levo which i can do the same tracks with not issues at all and roll over everything.

I have got the suspension setup and saddle height / distance etc of both bikes in the same way and weight(using the manufacture Recomended sag/rebound clicks etc) So what am I failing at on the enduro setup? It is Anything to be done with the handle bars (raise them) I.e or the suspension setup or it is as simple as the geometry are different and the enduro is too large for me?

As you could see from the pic the enduro large looks taller than the Levo M. However the specs geometry are very similar with the seat post tube probably the largest.

the enduro I really like it, it is really light and fast on flowing tracks and jumps like a kangaroo. Hence would like to keep it but not sure why I got this challenge with tech downhill bits.
Any help is appreciated
Cheers


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, since no one has said it yet: It's your technique.

So imagine you are running down a hill, in reality you are in a controlled fall, the control is maintained as you "fall".

It's no different on a bike, but a fall is typically a bigger issue on a bike because you can "launch".

So, how to fix the problem:

1) let the bike "run", go too slow and your front wheel won't roll obstacles effectively and you'll have abrupt slow downs or stops which can make you feel like you're about to launch
2) getting forward is fine, but drop your arse, think lower COG; the Levo has more weight down low, so you need to emulate this effect
3) make sure your rear suspension is not jacking you up in the air, slow it down and soften it a touch
4) do repeats on scary stuff till you learn how to ride it better.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

All that weight around the bottom bracket ... yep.


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## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

Nurse Ben said:


> Well, since no one has said it yet: It's your technique.
> 
> So imagine you are running down a hill, in reality you are in a controlled fall, the control is maintained as you "fall".
> 
> ...


Ben. Fair point the Levo weight 12kg more than the enduro. So does make sense That helps perhaps the center of gravity to be lower and backward to compensate my forward riding position. 
when you mention to soft the rear suspension does that mean to reduce the pressure on it? 
cheers


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I would also look at the tires. Is the E bike on enduro or dh tires V standard for the enduro. 

Other than weight and tires there isnt any geo reason. Infact the the geo of the enduro is better for steep tech riding.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Do you drop your seatpost? 

It appears that the only thing keeping you safe, or feeling safe, on the e-bike is the extra weight down low.

So, on the manual bike, you need to drop your seatpost, bend your knees, and keep your weight neutral to rear-biased.





Ben refers to the rebound adjustment on your shock, which governs how quickly the shock lets your rear triangle bounce back after a compression. If it's too fast, it can buck you like a horse, or at least whap you in the keister pretty good. Too slow and it's really mushy.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Is the enduro chain stay much shorter than the levo.

if it is, it will transfer more weight to the rear of the bike. light tire is prone to more wheel lock ups. 


the slacker hta will run the downhills easier as well


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## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

plummet said:


> I would also look at the tires. Is the E bike on enduro or dh tires V standard for the enduro.
> 
> Other than weight and tires there isnt any geo reason. Infact the the geo of the enduro is better for steep tech riding.


Both have decent tyres, the Levo has the standard specialized eliminator 2.6 back and butcher 2.6 front 
The enduro has Maxxis minion dhr II 2.4 on the back and Maxxis assegai 2.5 on the front 
The enduro ones has a lot of grip on flowing terrains where twist curves are present. Which makes a pleasure to ride.


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## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

Fuse6F said:


> Is the enduro chain stay much shorter than the levo.
> 
> if it is, it will transfer more weight to the rear of the bike. light tire is prone to more wheel lock ups.
> 
> ...


The enduro measure 44cm and the Levo 47 cm
I do really put my weight and body to the back to go over those tecky bits. I also got a NOrco fs3 and don’t have any issue with it. It does seems to be the enduro I am struggling with and the only thing so far is a large bike compared with the Levi and the norco which are M.


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## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

TwiceHorn said:


> Do you drop your seatpost?
> 
> It appears that the only thing keeping you safe, or feeling safe, on the e-bike is the extra weight down low.
> 
> ...


Hi there. Thanks for th explanation on the rebound. 
I do ride with the seat down 😁 and pretty much with my body quite back. the concern comes since I do also have a norco fs3 which I do ride as well in the same places and not really any issue. I understand the Levo weight helps, but if was only that then I would be having probably the same issue with the norco if was riding position. 
I will give a go to adjust the rebound and see if that helps
I use more the enduro than the norco because going uphill is much much easier. And I was comparing the enduro with the Levo since they are the same brand.


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

Well, then, that's kind of odd. The Enduro is slack for its age and slack is usually what keeps you from (feeling like you're going to) go over the bars. It should be pretty adept for downhill runs.

As between the two, it seems the weight of the Levo is what makes you feel more planted.

I guess it could be just the size making you feel more like you're "on" the bike rather than "in" it.


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## gocat (Feb 27, 2012)

MMF27 said:


> Hi guys.
> got an enduro 2016 in size large and a turbo Levo 2020 in Size M. I am 174 cm and weight 98kg (all muscle) 😂
> 
> when I go to tech downhill tracks (those with drops rocky sections) with the enduro, I always feel I am going over the bars, to the point I walk some of the sections since I do feel the front wheel like locking up when rolling over the drops.
> ...



Is the Enduro a 27.5?


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

MMF27 said:


> Both have decent tyres, the Levo has the standard specialized eliminator 2.6 back and butcher 2.6 front
> The enduro has Maxxis minion dhr II 2.4 on the back and Maxxis assegai 2.5 on the front
> The enduro ones has a lot of grip on flowing terrains where twist curves are present. Which makes a pleasure to ride.


Well you even have better tyres on the enduro. Everthing about the enduro is better for steep tech. It must that you feel safer on the levo because heavier and feels more stable. 

The reality is that the enduro will be better. You just need to cailbrate your mind to the bike. 

I had a similar impression when i switched from heavier more flexible wheels to lighter and a lot stiffer carbon wheelset. My mind was calibrated for a flexy wheel. To begin with I was slower in the down because i wasnt used to the additional precision. Once i dialed into the wheels I was faster than before.


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## MMF27 (8 mo ago)

gocat said:


> Is the Enduro a 27.5?


Hi Gocat, both bikes have 29” wheels


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MMF27 said:


> Ben. Fair point the Levo weight 12kg more than the enduro. So does make sense That helps perhaps the center of gravity to be lower and backward to compensate my forward riding position.
> when you mention to soft the rear suspension does that mean to reduce the pressure on it?
> cheers


I call it stink bugging, but it's the feeling you can get when the back end is rising up faster than the front, so it sorta kicks you forward.

Generally you want your back end to be slower (rebound) than the front end.

I suspect it's got something to do with set up too.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Yep.. A setup thing. Forks diving with more weight, more momentum, more braking force, more... Maybe add more volume tokens to the air spring in your forks. It may help reduce the diving. You can also try riser bars if you are mostly riding DH trails.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Weight is spread between the bike's two wheels. Too much on the front leads to that over-the-bar (OTB) feel.

People usually associate a steep HA (XC/road geo) with such front-heavy geo. Some believe that the front-heavy feeling can be offset with short chainstays. They're not wrong, but it's more about the "front-center" length (the distance that the front wheel is away from the BB). The enduro has a much more compact front end compared to the Levo.

You can adapt to the front-heavy geo by shifting your bodyweight back. Such technique shouldn't be transferred to just any bike though. Modern bikes with longer front-ends call for riders to stay more centered. Old XC-inspired geo allowed riders to handle the bike well while pedaling while still in the saddle, following twisty singletrack that snakes around trees. Jumps and drops were fine if you had time to set up for them, rewarding people who could figure out the technique. Modern mtbs were inspired by the kind of handling that gravity riders liked, more out-of-the-saddle with bike park features being more second-nature to them.

Some modern bikes arguably don't have enough weight on the front, especially in the big sizes. Big people tend to gravitate to smaller bikes (smaller size than recommended, and/or shorter/compact designs). People on smaller sizes tend to have the opposite problem, with bikes their size being too scary on stuff like jumps/drops. Small people tend to gravitate to bigger bikes (larger size, and/or longer travel designs). It's a skill to read geo tables to predict what bikes have good "balance".

Generally, for someone my size (5' 7" 140lbs), I find that bikes with 435mm CS length and 1230mm WB length have balance that allows me to stay perfectly centered in a "standing tall/strong" position. My hips and legs are generally aligned with the pull of gravity, with the bike tilting/pitching forward (rear wheel coming up and forward, rather than my hips going rearward). I've found that this balance is preserved if the CS is altered by 5mm for every 20mm in WB change (430|1210, 425|1190, 420|1170, 415|1150 - Canyon Stoic in size Sm, 1050|390 - DJ bike like Polygon Trid & Transition PBJ, 440|1250 - newest generation Spec Enduro in M/L). Lots of top Enduro bikes are coincidentally 435|1230, like the Orbea Rallon in L, Yeti SB150 in M... some bikes, like the 2021 Commencal Meta AM were noted to get better times in a smaller size (close to 435|1230 in size small, see Enduro MTB mag shootout). The larger sizes had less weight on front, which made the bike struggle in corners. This is more true for heavier people, as more of their bodyweight is behind the bike's centerline, putting a higher % of weight on the rear than smaller riders (taller riders can shift their weight further back too, so bigger people generally find longer CS to be overall more beneficial).

People here recommending techniques like dropping heels is just a band-aid fix to poorly optimized frame geo/design. When heels are dropped, the legs naturally want to be angled back too, getting your weight back in a fairly stable position, esp when heavily braking. I generally don't like it since you are inclined to hold onto the bar tightly. I feel that geo that allows me to have "heavy feet, light hands", and a "universal athletic position" allows me to save a lot of energy, not needing to hold strange positions for just coping with super common mtb terrain features. I will admit that adapting with these techniques is a cheaper fix than buying a better frame, or modifying HA to be slacker, reach to be longer, or kicking the wheel out with a longer fork. If you feel life is too short for that extra stress, risking your neck needlessly (the "exciting thrills" of almost-dying), the '21 Spec Status 160 (size S2) is a good replacement for that med Enduro, IMO.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Funny my xxl frame stumpjumper is 437/1232. I have been begging for a bigger tall stack bike w 450 chain stays so i dont have to run a 70mm stem. 

lately i have been playing w my setup. Tried a 20" front just to see. Hated the washed out feeling. Bike couldnt climb. Would need to shorten the fork substantially.

then lengthened the fork 10mm w stock setup and felt a little bit of that tire slide. Not planted feeling. Increasedy rear shock spacer position by another 1mm bringing the back end up and i got an insanely better pedalling bike back w the old planted balance feeling just a higher bottom bracket

If one bike feels like the front end is pushing it probably has short chain stays and a slack front end. Try increasing rear ahock pressure or an offset bushing to transfer some weight forward. To test drop shock pressure to increase sag from 25 to 35% and go for a ride. Then imagine reversing the difference. Either by higher air pressure. Not always good for traction or w offset bushing. Which will help pedalling as well. Imo. 

good news is you get to see what you like and dont like and have some fun


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Thread is a bit old. However,

Is your fork too soft on your Enduro? If that front fork is diving through it travel when it shouldn't you will spend some time going out the front door. 

My rule for suspension is too hard beats too soft every day of the week.


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