# lowest entry cost GPS for Strava



## head (Feb 13, 2004)

I'm interested in picking up a GPS for the sole purpose of playing around on Strava - local competition. I've never shopped around for a GPS before and it appears that the options are ridiculously numerous. I don't need any fancy features. Basically i want to be able to strap something to my arm or stem or throw it in my camelback then ride. When i get home i'd plug the device into my pc and see how i did vs others.

What do you suggest?

Thanks,
head


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## Camel Toad (Nov 23, 2011)

Costco member? They have a Garmin 405 w/premium HR monitor for $159. ::link::

You can use a handlebar mount ($15) or wear it on your wrist.


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## Call_me_Tom (May 26, 2008)

I've read that Strava is catering to the cell phone market & no longer uses the barometric elevation readings from GPS's. This makes your ride climbed & descents (usually) shorter. If this doesn't bother you then any cheap GPS or phone with GPS will work. 

You can get a Garmin Edge 200 for around $150.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

head said:


> I'm interested in picking up a GPS for the sole purpose of playing around on Strava - local competition.
> What do you suggest?
> 
> Thanks,
> head


blackberry curve and GPSLogger. Don't even need a SIM card in the device. GPSLogger is Free. (Free as in freedom, no activity harvesting) GPS Precision is good. I pass the files from the phone to the laptop via bluetooth and upload to strava.

*Every* smartphone platform has a number of GPS apps. If you already have a mobile phone capable of running third-party applications you have to find one that writes to a file type supported by strava.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Call_me_Tom said:


> I've read that Strava is catering to the cell phone market & no longer uses the barometric elevation readings from GPS's.


?

Not as of 9AM this morning.


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## Call_me_Tom (May 26, 2008)

ghettocruiser said:


> ?
> 
> Not as of 9AM this morning.


I don't use Starva but I read that on these boards. You are more then welcome to conduct your own search.

I run an iPhone 4 using MotionX-GPS & upload to Geoladders or Garmin Connect.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

There was a discussion last week about a change in the method of speed/distance calculation to work better with mobile phones (which Strava later decided not to do) but I saw nothing about elevation.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

asphalt_jesus said:


> blackberry curve and GPSLogger. Don't even need a SIM card in the device. GPSLogger is Free. (Free as in freedom, no activity harvesting) GPS Precision is good. I pass the files from the phone to the laptop via bluetooth and upload to strava.
> 
> *Every* smartphone platform has a number of GPS apps. If you already have a mobile phone capable of running third-party applications you have to find one that writes to a file type supported by strava.


Wow... this is cool. I have my wifes old blackberry bold no longer has sim card. I use it for streaming pandora off our house wi-fi and now it looks like I can re-purpose to track my rides on GPS.

Does the phone need light of sight to get a signal or if it is in camelbak will it still get a signal?


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

It worked.. I took my old blackberry bold 9700 and despite not having sim card any longer I downloaded GPS Logger II via home wi-fi. I then turned it on and did a ride this weekend. I put it in my camelbak and did a ride. It recored the entire trip. I did not get any maps while on the trail as the phone had not data connection, but it did track GPS data like position speed and elevation. 

Just what I needed for the right price $0. So left over blackberry with wi-fi =FREE, GPS Logger II app = FREE. Being able to track your ride for FREE = COOL. I love to know where I have been.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Has anyone had any experience with simple dataloggers?

Amazon.com: i-gotU GT-120 Travel Blog Master (USB GPS, Data Logger, SiRF III Chipset) (Bumper Case, Data Cable and Software Included) (GT-120): GPS & Navigation
http://www.amazon.com/Holux-M-1000C-Bluetooth-Recorder-Waypoints/dp/B001QRCZ7C
http://www.amazon.com/M-241-Bluetooth-Battery-Chipset-Waypoints/dp/B0011XV19O

There are several others which look interesting as well.

$60 for a GPS - no bike computer functions but if you want the cheapest entry to GPS use, it's hard to beat $60.

Well, obviously if you have an old phone with GPS, that beats that, but the phone cost well more than that when it was new.


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## bennymack (Dec 14, 2008)

I picked up a Canmore 730 GT-FL(S) off ebay for $40 to experiment with (I also own a705) and I have to say it does the trick. Low cost, compact, and fairly simple to operate and integrate. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a low cost gps device.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

bennymack said:


> I picked up a Canmore 730 GT-FL(S) off ebay for $40 to experiment with (I also own a705) and I have to say it does the trick. Low cost, compact, and fairly simple to operate and integrate. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a low cost gps device.


Nice, I missed that one completely, thanks! $5 cheaper than the Holux M-1000C I picked up. Looking forward to comparing it to my android phone and the wife's Edge 500.

cmh


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## bennymack (Dec 14, 2008)

cmh said:


> Nice, I missed that one completely, thanks! $5 cheaper than the Holux M-1000C I picked up. Looking forward to comparing it to my android phone and the wife's Edge 500.
> cmh


I guess if I were to compare the two it looks like the Canmore is quite a bit smaller. It's about the size of a fat USB flash drive and weighs practically nothing. It has a built in battery, the holux seems to also require batteries? I'm guessing the holux wins in features as the canmore has practically none. Just turn it on and it records, press the button to store a waypoint, turn it off.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

bennymack said:


> I guess if I were to compare the two it looks like the Canmore is quite a bit smaller. It's about the size of a fat USB flash drive and weighs practically nothing. It has a built in battery, the holux seems to also require batteries? I'm guessing the holux wins in features as the canmore has practically none. Just turn it on and it records, press the button to store a waypoint, turn it off.


The Holux is very similar in features, or lack thereof. It's very simple. It does have a battery from a Nokia cell phone, which would probably give it more recording time before it needs to be charged just simply because it's bigger. The chipset in the Holux is supposed to be really good, as well. Don't know how long the Canmore lasts, but if it's at least a couple hours, I'd say it's a better choice. Can you set the logging interval down to 1 second on the Canmore? I would think -- especially for MTB -- that the smaller logging interval is kinda necessary, especially on really twisty trails. If you only sample every 5 seconds, a really twisty trail might wind up looking basically straight.


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## bennymack (Dec 14, 2008)

According to the docs the battery is supposed to last 18 hours. I did update the config to log every 1 second. It stores 256k points whatever that works out to a 1PPS.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

bennymack said:


> According to the docs the battery is supposed to last 18 hours. I did update the config to log every 1 second. It stores 256k points whatever that works out to a 1PPS.


Wow, if that thing turns out to be comparable in accuracy to the Holux, it's a way better buy. Smaller, simpler, 1 second intervals, and good battery life. I may have to get one (WTH, it's cheap) and compare the two. Thanks!

edit -- Bought! Picked up one for $38 with free shipping from ebay. I'll soon be able to compare the Canmore, the Holux, a Garmin Edge 500 (maybe an 800 if I can con one of my buddies into lending it) and Android phones. (Motorola Cliq and Galaxy Nexus)

Should be interesting, if nothing else!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> Wow, if that thing turns out to be comparable in accuracy to the Holux, it's a way better buy. Smaller, simpler, 1 second intervals, and good battery life. I may have to get one (WTH, it's cheap) and compare the two. Thanks!
> 
> edit -- Bought! Picked up one for $38 with free shipping from ebay. I'll soon be able to compare the Canmore, the Holux, a Garmin Edge 500 (maybe an 800 if I can con one of my buddies into lending it) and Android phones. (Motorola Cliq and Galaxy Nexus)
> 
> Should be interesting, if nothing else!


Any chance of adding any handhelds to the mix? That could be an interesting test.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> Any chance of adding any handhelds to the mix? That could be an interesting test.


Sure thing, send me what you've got! 

I haven't had a handheld since my first GPS, a Garmin GPS III. I know a guy with a handheld he uses for Geocaching, but I don't see him very often.

Otherwise, I'd love to incorporate those.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> Sure thing, send me what you've got!
> 
> I haven't had a handheld since my first GPS, a Garmin GPS III. I know a guy with a handheld he uses for Geocaching, but I don't see him very often.
> 
> Otherwise, I'd love to incorporate those.


I have Strava segments to compete for...I don't plan on sending my Oregon.

The Oregon will probably be similar to the Edge 800 if you can get that one into the test.

I was thinking more about one of the new eTrexes, maybe a Delorme. But still, if you did such a test in a pretty systematic way with calibrated distances under different circumstances, that could be good stuff. I'd even offer to let you write it up as a guest post on my site if it was good.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

I went out for a ride tonight with three units:

1) Garmin Edge 500 on the stem in the normal configuration
2) Holux M-1000C attached to the top of my helmet with velcro - light enough to not notice it and best view of the sky. Plus, once it's on, nothing else to do with it, so don't need it accessible.
3) Motorola Cliq running MyTracks in a ziploc in my center rear jersey pocket.

This was a road ride, so I rode through a small office area to get a better idea of the GPS accuracy.

In terms of ease of uploading, the phone wins, hands down, going away. As soon as I get home, it picks up my wifi (no data service, it's an old phone which was upgraded) and I can upload the GPX to dropbox (dropsync app handles that automatically) or email it directly to Strava. (The Strava app is sketchy on the older hardware, MyTracks is dead relliable.) No need to plug it in for anything beyond charging. The Garmin comes in next with the browser plugin and removable media functionality, but you still have to bring it in and hook it up to the computer. The Holux comes in DFL because it has to be connected, like the Garmin, but then you have to use their software to get the data off, THEN export it to a GPX. Their software is pretty ugly, and requires you to enter a product key. Since the software is useless without the datalogger itself, I think having to enter a product key that's longer than the one on a Windows installation is pretty stupid. Nobody's going to pirate this turd.

In terms of accuracy, however, the Holux wins it going away. First thing I did before I went on the ride was to change the logging interval from the default of 5 seconds to the minimum of 1 second. This was really, really apparent in the resulting tracks. Riding through the office complex, the Holux track had nice, smooth, curves. Really quite impressive. The Garmin was in the right general area, but I think it's got a default of 5 second intervals, and you can tell as the same corners are sequences of large straight lines. The old phone, I've tweaked MyTracks to the shortest recording duration, but I guess due to the lower quality GPS unit in that, it looks like I was chugging coffee with energy shot chasers. The tracks are accurate-ish, but jagged.

I didn't bother using my Galaxy Nexus because that has some known GPS issues (so I've heard) and it's a bit of a battery killer.

(I can upload screen shots comparing the tracks, but wanted to get this out)

I've been uploading to Strava from the old phone, so did that after the ride. I didn't upload the other two so I didn't confuse things. Might upload them and make them private (or flag them) so they don't show up as multiple rides. It'll be interesting to see how the coverage differences affect segment times.

So if you don't need to ride with a display, and don't need to follow the directions, and can deal with a little annoyance with the uploads, the Holux wins, especially considering it's $60 vs. $250 for the Garmin. *especially* considering the finer 1sec sample time for MTB use. In terms of ease of use of the unit, there's an on-off switch. Once it gets a GPS signal (indicated with LEDs) it starts recording. Nothing else to do. Done with the ride? Shut it off. That's it.

I know there is some third party software which should work with the Holux, I'll be curious to see if I can do something a bit more automated.

Really, really interested to get the Canmore unit now. If it's as accurate as the Holux and the battery life is as good as they advertise, it's simply unbeatable at sub-$40 shipped.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

cmh said:


> First thing I did before I went on the ride was to change the logging interval from the default of 5 seconds to the minimum of 1 second. This was really, really apparent in the resulting tracks. Riding through the office complex, the Holux track had nice, smooth, curves. Really quite impressive. The Garmin was in the right general area, but I think it's got a default of 5 second intervals, and you can tell as the same corners are sequences of large straight lines.


Not doubting the value for the $$$ reasoning, but... why set the Holux to 1-second recording and not do the same with the Edge 500?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ghettocruiser said:


> Not doubting the value for the $$$ reasoning, but... why set the Holux to 1-second recording and not do the same with the Edge 500?


my thoughts exactly.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

cmh said:


> I didn't bother using my Galaxy Nexus because that has some known GPS issues (so I've heard) and it's a bit of a battery killer.
> 
> I know there is some third party software which should work with the Holux, I'll be curious to see if I can do something a bit more automated.


I thought one of the neatest features of the Holux was the Bluetooth connectivity - I believe you should be able to use a Bluetooth GPS app on your Galaxy Nexus to acquire the data from your Holux instead of its internal GPS. That should make the post-processing easier, too, no? I just started reading about this, so I'd be interested if you can try that combo.

Ted


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

ghettocruiser said:


> Not doubting the value for the $$$ reasoning, but... why set the Holux to 1-second recording and not do the same with the Edge 500?


Is it possible? I've looked and haven't found where that can be set. I thought that was the big selling point of the 800 over the 500. Tell me how and I'll give it a go.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

TedS123 said:


> I thought one of the neatest features of the Holux was the Bluetooth connectivity - I believe you should be able to use a Bluetooth GPS app on your Galaxy Nexus to acquire the data from your Holux instead of its internal GPS. That should make the post-processing easier, too, no? I just started reading about this, so I'd be interested if you can try that combo.


Yeah, in theory it can be done. I've seen some things about it, you basically have to disable the internal GPS and then pair it and then enable mock locations under debugging. Something like that, I don't remember the exact steps. Can try that, time permitting.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> Is it possible? I've looked and haven't found where that can be set. I thought that was the big selling point of the 800 over the 500. Tell me how and I'll give it a go.


when was the last time you updated your firmware? it was included in an update some time ago. advantage of the edge 800 over the 500 is mostly mapping capability (and all the associated things you can do with maps).


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> when was the last time you updated your firmware? it was included in an update some time ago. advantage of the edge 800 over the 500 is mostly mapping capability (and all the associated things you can do with maps).


Hadn't even looked at updating the firmware yet. Just did a quick search and found it, I'll have to check and see what I was running and update tonight. Good deal, was unaware of that, obviously I hadn't really investigated too deeply. Considering the Edge is the wife's, and she's almost entirely MTB, this will be a very good fix to make. Thanks!


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

The 1-second recording vs. smart recording is buried in the bike settings menu, and is independently selectable for each bike, meaning you can enable it for accurate tracking on your mountain bike and leave it off to avoid 20-megabyte *FIT files at the end of an all-day road ride.

Re: Edge500 firmware:



ghettocruiser said:


> BUT BEFORE YOU INSTALL THIS UPGRADE, remove all the *.fit files from your Edge (you can store them on the computer) including the activities folder AND the courses folder (which I forgot about).
> 
> Some people upgrading with *.fit files left in the memory are experiencing issues ranging from inability to upload, to completely bricking the unit.


(Bricking the wife's Garmin would be a bad scene, I suspect.)


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

ghettocruiser said:


> The 1-second recording vs. smart recording is buried in the bike settings menu, and is independently selectable for each bike, meaning you can enable it for accurate tracking on your mountain bike and leave it off to avoid 20-megabyte *FIT files at the end of an all-day road ride.


Well, I was at 2.80 so I had the 1 second recording, my bad. Didn't look under the bike config. Makes sense, but since she's just got the one, won't change too much.



> (Bricking the wife's Garmin would be a bad scene, I suspect.)


Yeah, that might not be great -- but at least she's still got the Strava app on her phone, which is easier and faster anyway. Either way, I followed that advice and am upgraded to 3.0.

Next time I get out on the bike I'll give it another go and see how we do. I'm expecting the Garmin will now be on level footing with the Holux. Will probably wait until the Canmore comes in, that way I can have even more datapoints.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

In other news, I was able to pair the Holux with the Galaxy Nexus, turned off the internal GPS and enabled mock locations. Maps complained but as I walked around the block, it showed me right where I was supposed to be. Both MyTracks and Strava, however, not so happy. Even though MyTracks showed my icon moving on the map, it listed my speed and distance as zero. It had a message on the screen about how I needed to enable the GPS for it to work. Strava was the same deal -- warning messages about no GPS, and no recording.

Edit: Forgot a step... need the app "Bluetooth GPS": https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=googoo.android.btgps


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Quick update. Accidentally left the Holux in the car yesterday, sitting on the dash and running all day. Was still running when I got back 10 hours later. Not like I should be surprised, the rated battery life is way past that.

Got the Canmore yesterday, started playing around with that. Hoping to get out for a ride this weekend with heavy GPS coverage. Figuring:

Canmore datalogger
Holux logging and paired to Galaxy Nexus
Motorola Cliq running internal GPS
Garmin Edge 500 (now adjusted to 1 second intervals)

This will be a MTB ride with good tree cover. Probably velcro both of the dataloggers to the helmet.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Cool! Looking forward to the results - thanks!
Ted


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## bennymack (Dec 14, 2008)

Before you head out for the test be sure to use the GPSViewer.exe program to configure the Canmore to save the datalog (I know, silly right?) and to store one point per second. The default is to not store anything 5 times per second. Probably so as to not record the exact coordinates of the factory it was made in or every place it was ever powered on before you bought it or something like that..


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Went out for a ride, forgot some of the stuff, but set up the Canmore and the Holux. Had both velcro'd to the helmet, the Holux on top in the back and the Canmore just behind it. Amusingly, the Canmore fit right between the vents in the back of my helmet, and almost didn't need any velcro to hold it in place. Even with the two of them up there, I completely forgot that they were there, the weight is negligible, and this is a light helmet.










Still have to write up comparisons and post links to tracks and all that crap, but here are my initial thoughts:

* The Canmore is definitely the winner for best price. $40 is hard to beat.

* The Holux seems to be more accurate -- actually, scratch that, it's more _precise_. On out-and-back rides on the same track, the Holux comes very close to completely overlaying the tracks. The Canmore, not so much. In other tests, (tracking the dog when we went out for a walk, had the unit on his harness) the Canmore's resolution seems worse than my Galaxy Nexus, I mean remarkably bad, (jagged mess with what looks like very infrequent logging, despite being configured for 1 second intervals) and it had a full view of the sky. So far, the Holux has been far more consistent with good readings.

* The winner of the price/accuracy/ease-of-use competition, and the way I will probably be going from here on is the Holux paired to an android phone via Bluetooth and running the Strava app. With this, you get the accuracy of the Holux (mounted up on the helmet for the best sky view) and the ease of upload of the Strava app. Plus, if the Strava app has any issues, the Holux is still logging, so you've got a backup of the ride.

(I really haven't done any testing to see how the phone with internal GPS fares vs. the phone with paired bluetooth in terms of battery performance. Paired, on a three hour ride, the phone dropped from about 90% to just under 50%, but the Galaxy Nexus is a battery killer to begin with.)

* The software looks exactly the same between the two, just branded slightly different, with the same ridiculous 28-character product key, and it's just as bad for both. Better yet, the Holux software won't talk to the Canmore, and vise-versa. Plus, since the USB connection is a serial port, not removable storage, you have to figure out which port each time (it moves around, never just COM5 or whatever) and then connect to it. The auto-scan function doesn't work for crap. (this is all on Windows 7) It's not horribly difficult, but it's a pain in the ass. Still haven't done too much with looking at third party software.

Although the Holux is $20 more, the bluetooth option, as well as the more consistent logging, makes it my choice for budget GPS, especially if you've got an android phone. (no idea if it works with iPhone or anything else, that's outside my GAF)

None of these options give you any display. That's fine for me, but if you want to see how far you've gone while you're going, then you either need a phone and a handlebar mount, or just get a Garmin.

I'm curious (but not enough to bother looking it up) if the Edge 200 shares the 1 second logging option with the 500 -- and if it does, the extra $90 to get a display, the better precision, and the hugely easier uploads would be WELL worth it.

Speaking of the Edge 500, my wife ran hers with the logging set to 1 second, and comparing the maps, the Edge is almost as precise as the Holux. I'd say they'd be right on the money if the Edge had the same view of the sky as the Holux.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

bennymack said:


> Before you head out for the test be sure to use the GPSViewer.exe program to configure the Canmore to save the datalog (I know, silly right?) and to store one point per second. The default is to not store anything 5 times per second. Probably so as to not record the exact coordinates of the factory it was made in or every place it was ever powered on before you bought it or something like that..


Yep, first thing I did was configure it. Thought it a bit odd for a datalogger that defaults to not logging. Did see a short log from what looked to be the factory, that was kinda cool.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Comparing the Holux and the Canmore on an out-and-back segment:

Holux:









Canmore:









Both are perfectly usable, but the Holux exhibits better precision.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


>


One problem I see here that most likely screwed up your results: the orientation of the two devices to the sky is different. It's likely that the antenna is a simple patch antenna, which is shaped like a postage stamp. You need to orient that type of antenna so that maximum surface area is exposed to the sky so it can capture the best signal. You oriented the Canmore so it was pointed sideways, not ideal.

A quad helix antenna is more forgiving of orientation. Do another test and either swap the receivers or figure out a way to orient the two the same way.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> One problem I see here that most likely screwed up your results: the orientation of the two devices to the sky is different. It's likely that the antenna is a simple patch antenna, which is shaped like a postage stamp. You need to orient that type of antenna so that maximum surface area is exposed to the sky so it can capture the best signal. You oriented the Canmore so it was pointed sideways, not ideal.
> 
> A quad helix antenna is more forgiving of orientation. Do another test and either swap the receivers or figure out a way to orient the two the same way.


I wondered about that. But, when I had the Canmore on the dog's harness, it was on top, facing the sky with the button side up. The accuracy was piss-poor, to the point that the Galaxy Nexus logs looked good in comparison. Maybe that's not the "up" side. Still, it ships with a lanyard, so I'm guessing if you use it the way it's shipped, it would wind up in a vertical orientation, just the other end up.

Still, I'll give it a try with the Canmore up top.

Edit: Here's the log of our walk around, showing how accurate the Canmore can be when it's facing upwards. I am fairly certain our dog neither flew nor walked across the roof of any of the houses. It was a clear, sunny day.

Walking Buddy with the Canmore - Hartford, Connecticut, US


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> I wondered about that. But, when I had the Canmore on the dog's harness, it was on top, facing the sky with the button side up. The accuracy was piss-poor, to the point that the Galaxy Nexus logs looked good in comparison. Maybe that's not the "up" side. Still, it ships with a lanyard, so I'm guessing if you use it the way it's shipped, it would wind up in a vertical orientation, just the other end up.
> 
> Still, I'll give it a try with the Canmore up top.
> 
> ...


crap, that looks awful. I'd play with the orientation to see if one way or another works better. Maybe my assumption about the antenna orientation is wrong.


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## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

Good info, cmh. I was just wondering which model Holux device you tested.

Also, there's a lot of TomTom MK-II Bluetooth receivers for sale on the web. They're cheap and have an internal quad helix antenna.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

*Review posted on Amazon.*

Most of this won't be news to you if you've been following this thread, but I've written up a review for the Holux:

Amazon.com: cmh's review of Holux M-1000C Bluetooth GPS Data Logger Tr...

Hope this information is useful. Please let me know if I missed something!


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## Mark_123 (Nov 4, 2009)

My Holux (m-1000c) data looks much blockier, less smooth than the above screens. The data seems good for mileage, altitude and time. I haven't use much just wondering if it's a setting. I already set the time to 1 second, my son uses an iphone he said is set to 3 sec and his data looks much smoother. I wasn't sure about the setting for degrees, minutes, seconds or just degrees, I had it to degrees. I will switch to deg, min, sec setting but not sure if this will help. I will directly compare to the iphone this weekend.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Wow, Mark, I'm surprised. You're saying that the accuracy that you're seeing from your M-1000C is lower than an iPhone? That's completely the opposite of what I'm seeing. Where do you have it mounted when you ride? 

Degrees/minutes/seconds vs. Degrees is just a display thing. The unit is saving the information in degrees, but you can convert it so it'll display in degrees/minutes/seconds, which you might see on some maps.


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## Mark_123 (Nov 4, 2009)

I thought so on the degrees thing and the accuracy. My Holux of 1 sec vs. his iphone 3 secs. I put it in my backpack, do you think it is having trouble receiving the signal? His iphone is in his backpack also.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

If it's near the outside of the backpack so that it gets a good view of the sky, it should be fine, but if you can try mounting it on top of your helmet, give that a go. Still, in a backpack, as long as it's near the outside (not buried in stuff) then it should work just fine.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> as long as it's near the outside (not buried in stuff) then it should work just fine.


I wouldn't go that far. It depends a lot on the hardware, receiver sensitivity, and that sort of thing. A layer of fabric between the device and the sky can make a difference. Not to mention if it's in the pack, it's subject to being jostled around so the antenna may wind up pointing down or it might eventually get buried under stuff or you might have something else in the pack that would interfere. two GPS receivers next to each other can interfere. need I remind anyone of the iphone 4 reception problems if you gripped it just right? that sort of stuff happens.

stuck to the top of the helmet is probably best. lashed to the top exterior of the pack would probably be my #2 spot for a BT GPS puck. inside the pack would be WAY down the list.


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## Mark_123 (Nov 4, 2009)

It's works very good now, operator error. I was exporting the tracks then typing Y which reduces the resolution and size of the file. Very smooth looking now. Thanks cmh for all the research, good product.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

This is in interesting thread.

How did the cheap gps loggers last?
For how many hours can you log with 1s sample interval before they run out of memory?
Which Canmore device did you test? I saw their new 730 has a sirf 4 chip which is supposed to be more accurated.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

asphaltdude said:


> This is in interesting thread.
> 
> How did the cheap gps loggers last?


Still using my Holux M-1000C. Still works like a champ. Sometimes I pair it with the phone via Bluetooth and run an app, but mostly I just switch it on, ride, switch it off, then download when I get home. One day it seemed like it was acting up, so I pulled the battery and left it for an hour or so. Came back and it's worked fine since then. Remember that this thing is velcro'd to the top of my helmet and as such has taken the brunt many times when I don't duck enough for low trees. There has been more than one ride when I get done and have some bits of flora caught underneath it.



> For how many hours can you log with 1s sample interval before they run out of memory?


First time I tested it I left it on the dash of my car all day long. It logged all day - say around 7 in the morning to about 5:30 at night. I didn't check to see how much free memory was left, though.



> Which Canmore device did you test? I saw their new 730 has a sirf 4 chip which is supposed to be more accurated.


Well, the upside is it would be hard for it to be less accurate than the one I have. I don't remember the exact model, it was the (bunch of letters) 730 (more letters). I don't even know - or care - where it is.


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## Mark_123 (Nov 4, 2009)

asphaltdude said:


> This is in interesting thread.
> 
> How did the cheap gps loggers last?
> For how many hours can you log with 1s sample interval before they run out of memory?
> Which Canmore device did you test? I saw their new 730 has a sirf 4 chip which is supposed to be more accurated.


I have used the Holux M-1000C since Sept. 2012 and it works great. I have never had the battery die or had it lose the gps signal. I just turn on see the gps light flash and put in my backpack then turn off when finished mt ride. I upload to strava later and delete from the Holux at that time. I charge the unit with my laptop while surfing the web. Very simple.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Mark_123 said:


> I have used the Holux M-1000C since Sept. 2012 and it works great. I have never had the battery die or had it lose the gps signal. I just turn on see the gps light flash and *put in my backpack* then turn off when finished mt ride. I upload to strava later and delete from the Holux at that time. I charge the unit with my laptop while surfing the web. Very simple.


Heh, I thought that GPS units couldn't possibly work inside a backpack.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> Heh, I thought that GPS units couldn't possibly work inside a backpack.


did I say that? no, I didn't. read the details. if it stays on top, it can work fine. people have done it that way for years. I did it that way for years with a Rino 120 I couldn't put anywhere else. On top of the helmet is higher and more exposed, which is why I recommend it over the pack. My comments were about it getting buried under stuff in the pack which will interfere with reception, and with the possibility of other things in the pack interfering. any other items that emit RF frequencies, or have an EM field can screw with GPS reception. but mostly just getting buried at the bottom of the pack. and never did I say it wouldn't work. the likely result of such interference is a loss of accuracy.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Chill, Winston. I recommended the top of the helmet, too, and also said "as long as it's near the outside (not buried in stuff) then it should work just fine."

You just used a bunch more words to say basically the same thing.


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

using some of the similar stuff I've played with multiple phones while out riding, some of the newer phones are using GLONASS (basicly Russian GPS) so they double up on US and Russian sattilite systems so I've been comparing my note 2 with GLONASS vs an older android phone... even out on the open street I can see a difference in accuracy, the note2 I can see when I was using a sidewalk and things like that... but the phone GPS still eats the battery

seeing the difference of GLONASS vs standard GPS even in overcast days or inside I'm willing to bet the GLONASS would be awesome on the trail

I know garmin has a portable bluetooth enabled GPS called the GLO that uses GLONASS, a bit pricey but I wonder how the accuracy would compare to the other devices mentioned in this thread... 

lots of good info in this thread though, thanks for taking the time to research


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

donalson said:


> using some of the similar stuff I've played with multiple phones while out riding, some of the newer phones are using GLONASS (basicly Russian GPS) ...


Whoa, that's cool, I haven't heard of that at all, I'll have to look it up, thanks!

*edit - Just did some quick looking. Interestingly enough, my iPhone 5 (work phone) has it, my Galaxy Nexus does not, and my wife's Droid 4 has it. Looking through the options on the iPhone, there's zero mention of it, so I guess it's enabled as long as the GPS is enabled. Sounds like it might be time for another multi-GPS test. I'm thinking: iPhone 5 running Strava app, Galaxy Nexus running either Strava (I wonder if they'll let you run two tracks at the same time on the same account) or MyTracks, and the Holux doing its usual thing. I did notice recently that when I compared her Droid 4/Strava app track to the track from her Garmin 500, they were surprisingly comparable. I wonder if the GLONASS is a part of the reason?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GLONASS itself is not more accurate than GPS. By itself it's actually a little less so.

You see accuracy gains simply because the device is accessing more satellites. This makes a pretty significant difference for phones because their GPS hardware still sucks. It also helps dedicated receivers in spots with bad reception issues. They have better antennas typically so improvements there are going to be modest


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

yes you get nearly twice as many stateliness so it should be a bit more accurate lol... I'm not sure if it's the chipset or what but my phone also tracks me indoors much better than my previous phones... I stopped at wallgreens the other day to pick up my wifes meds while on a ride and I could see exactly where I walked inside the store...

for non dedicated GPS I have been very impressed


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

I ran a test with the iPhone (has GLONASS) and the Galaxy Nexus android (no GLONASS) and my Holux. The trail loop that we did is posted at 19 miles, and it's very twisty. My Holux and her Garmin usually come in around 18.5 miles. The android running the Strava app came in at 16.9 miles, and the iPhone running the Strava app came in at 16.4. So, we can conclude that Strava's sampling rate still sucks ass. I wanted to compare the three tracks, but after uploading the android and the iPhone (marking the iPhone as private to avoid problems with duplicate rides) and after posting my results, the android version disappeared completely. 

So, I really didn't see any increase in accuracy - in fact the GLONASS iPhone 5 had the worst results, but that's probably due as much to Strava's weak sampling rate.

**edit - one thing I forgot to mention was that the iPhone version missed several fairly major segments that both the Android version and the upload from my Holux managed to match. So much for increased accuracy.

If I only had my Android track, it worked - then disappeared.

If I only had my iPhone track, it worked - but missed several major segments.

Have I mentioned how much I like my Holux?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

cmh said:


> I ran a test with the iPhone (has GLONASS) and the Galaxy Nexus android (no GLONASS) and my Holux. The trail loop that we did is posted at 19 miles, and it's very twisty. My Holux and her Garmin usually come in around 18.5 miles. The android running the Strava app came in at 16.9 miles, and the iPhone running the Strava app came in at 16.4. So, we can conclude that Strava's sampling rate still sucks ass. I wanted to compare the three tracks, but after uploading the android and the iPhone (marking the iPhone as private to avoid problems with duplicate rides) and after posting my results, the android version disappeared completely.
> 
> So, I really didn't see any increase in accuracy - in fact the GLONASS iPhone 5 had the worst results, but that's probably due as much to Strava's weak sampling rate.
> 
> ...


What if you used another app on the iphone with GLONASS that had a better sampling rate?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

zephxiii said:


> What if you used another app on the iphone with GLONASS that had a better sampling rate?


the iphone GPS is still not as good as the Holux.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

Any updates lately, about to pull the trigger!


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Still using and loving the Holux. I've also moved to a linux desktop which means I can't use the Windows-only software that comes with the Holux, but thanks to gpsbabel, my uploads are far, far easier. I plug in the GPS and run a command that finds the GPS, connects to it with gpsbabel, downloads the data and converts it to GPX. I then upload that. I could have the script upload the file as well, but at this point, it's working quite nicely. (the script also works on the mac, installed gpsbabel via macports)


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

cmh said:


> Still using and loving the Holux. I've also moved to a linux desktop which means I can't use the Windows-only software that comes with the Holux, but thanks to gpsbabel, my uploads are far, far easier. I plug in the GPS and run a command that finds the GPS, connects to it with gpsbabel, downloads the data and converts it to GPX. I then upload that. I could have the script upload the file as well, but at this point, it's working quite nicely. (the script also works on the mac, installed gpsbabel via macports)


Very cool, I ordered one, plan to use it with my galaxy note


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Hmmmm very tempting. An 87-mile MTB ride last month exhausted my iPhone 5 battery (running Cyclemeter) ~2/3rd's of the way into it and I had < 10% charge left twice this month after a 50-mile MTB ride and 33 mile MTB race.

Has anyone used the M-1000c with something like the BU-353-S4 Weather-proof USB GPS Receiver? Seems like a good idea for a few $$ more so I can mount just the receiver on my helmet and tuck the GPS unit in something waterproof like a stem bag or Camelback.

Also any Mac users out there have recommendations on software? This looks promising... foolography » Holux M-1000C and M-1200E and Mac OS X


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

tkavan01 said:


> Very cool, I ordered one, plan to use it with my galaxy note


what app are you planning on using? I know some of them won't let you use mock locations which seems to be required to use an outside GPS source...


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Here's the one I've used with my phone: (galaxy nexus)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=googoo.android.btgps

Haven't tried it with my new Galaxy S3. Can't see there being any problem as it's the same OS (CM10, 4.2.2)


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

er I was talking about what specific app are you using for GPS tracking... I've been using that app (using one phone's GPS and sharing it to another just to test out the bluetooth GPS stuff) and some of them won't use the signal with the non built in GPS... as I recall IPbike doesn't have an issue but strava and some of the other big names don't like the bluetooth GPS :-/


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

I've used Strava and MyTracks with the bluetooth GPS with no issues. For MTB use, make sure to set both the Holux and MyTracks to the smallest recording interval (1 second) and unfortunately you can't set that in the Strava app. At least not the last time I looked, I haven't looked carefully lately, I know there have been several updates lately.

Yeah, just checked the Strava app, they added the thing to announce segments as you're coming up to one, but nothing to adjust the recording interval.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

I noticed Holux has a new model, the RCV-3000 but it looks very similar to the M-1000C
Holux Technology, Inc. | Product
Anyone know the difference?


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

asphaltdude said:


> I noticed Holux has a new model, the RCV-3000 but it looks very similar to the M-1000C
> Holux Technology, Inc. | Product
> Anyone know the difference?


Not a clue, but there is a compare option on that site. ;-)

Using that, looks like 66 channels instead if 22. Probably an update of the GPS unit. Maybe the GPS nerds here can comment on what that might mean better than I.

I'm still using my M-1000C exclusively. Great little unit.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

cmh said:


> there is a compare option on that site. ;-)


I tried that one, but didn't know what it all really meant. I did notice the gps chip set, which i presume is the most important part is the same.



> Maybe the *GPS nerds *here can comment


I was hoping you were one


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

cmh said:


> Not a clue, but there is a compare option on that site. ;-)
> 
> Using that, looks like 66 channels instead if 22. Probably an update of the GPS unit. Maybe the GPS nerds here can comment on what that might mean better than I.
> 
> I'm still using my M-1000C exclusively. Great little unit.


Not exactly.

Both units offer 66 parallel search channels and 22 tracking channels. This means they can track 22 satellites using 66 channels. Both use the same chipset (MTK MT3329). The Holux site is bad with the details, but if you search the chipset, you can find a clearer description of what they do.

These two receivers (M-1000C and RCV-3000) look very comparable to each other, but with the RCV-3000 being a slightly updated version, offering Bluetooth 2.0 instead of 1.2 (like the M-1000C). I can't tease out any other significant differences.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

asphaltdude said:


> I was hoping you were one


Hah, sorry, when it comes to the fine details, not even close, as someone will be glad to tell you. They're pretty stingy with the information on those sites, although the site does look like it's been reworked since I did my initial search. Still not much in the way of explanations, unfortunately.



NateHawk said:


> Not exactly.


NateHawk's new avatar?








Joking aside, good catch, I was on the phone and didn't go to the specs page for those. Upping to Bluetooth 2.0 gets more speed which isn't much needed for transferring a simple stream of data, and from what I read, uses less power, which is cool, but again, not terribly necessary considering the battery life I've seen on the M-1000C. If the two units have a difference in price, I'd guess go with the cheaper.

Quick check on Amazon and I only see the M-1000C available. Interestingly enough, I see the M241 data logger for as cheap as $24 on Amazon right now. That runs off a single AA, and I've got no experience with it, but at that price, it might be worth a try.


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## S-Works (Dec 30, 2003)

That price did not include shipping, which was $45. I think I will try the m1000 to go with Strava. Seems like a better alternative to a Garmin Edge 500.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

asphaltdude said:


> I noticed Holux has a new model, the RCV-3000 but it looks very similar to the M-1000C
> Holux Technology, Inc. | Product
> Anyone know the difference?


Ordered the Holux RCV-3000 from ebay, set the sample intervals to 1s, and dang, the rides logged with the Holux look soo much better than with my Huawei cellphone (and lots of cell phones, including the iPhone 4 have much crappier GPS than my Huawei)

Driver software en eZtour don't look very slick by today's standards but they're not as bad as some reviews say. Driver installation was <5 minutes and exporting a ride as a .gpx to upload to Strava maybe takes a minute?


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## S-Works (Dec 30, 2003)

asphaltdude said:


> Ordered the Holux RCV-3000 from ebay, set the sample intervals to 1s, and dang, the rides logged with the Holux look soo much better than with my Huawei cellphone (and lots of cell phones, including the iPhone 4 have much crappier GPS than my Huawei)
> 
> Driver software en eZtour don't look very slick by today's standards but they're not as bad as some reviews say. Driver installation was <5 minutes and exporting a ride as a .gpx to upload to Strava maybe takes a minute?


I just ordered the RCV 3000 too. I have used Allsport GPS for a few years, it works great for mtb. But I do some occasional long rode rides and cell phone battery life sucks. I've downloaded the gps ride info from my Allsport acct and uploaded to Strava. It was very easy. My understanding is that I will be able to track a ride withe the Holux, download it in gpx format to my computer and upload it to Strava.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

S-Works said:


> My understanding is that I will be able to track a ride withe the Holux, download it in gpx format to my computer and upload it to Strava.


I use it for Strava as well.
You can't just plug it into any pc as a mass storage device and directly download the gpx files though, you need the eZtour software to export rides.


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## S-Works (Dec 30, 2003)

asphaltdude said:


> I use it for Strava as well.
> You can't just plug it into any pc as a mass storage device and directly download the gpx files though, you need the eZtour software to export rides.


Cool thanks. I assume the software comes with the device or can be downloaded.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

Can be downloaded here. Serial key comes with the device.


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## S-Works (Dec 30, 2003)

asphaltdude said:


> Can be downloaded here. Serial key comes with the device.


Got my RCV-3000 yesterday. Downloaded the software, thanks to your link. The instructions were not very clear about this. Used it for a ride today. Super easy to download data with EZtour and then export and upload to Strava. It looks like the data is more accurate than Strava using my phone. My 2 hour ride only used about 3% of the tracking memory. Won't have any problem tracking longer road rides where my phone would die.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

Does anyone know how to get the RCV-3000 to work with Windows 8.1?


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## S-Works (Dec 30, 2003)

asphaltdude said:


> Does anyone know how to get the RCV-3000 to work with Windows 8.1?


I'm running it with 8.1. I downloaded EZ tour from you link, put in the serial key and it is running just fine.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

Thanks, I thought I had to install a separate driver software first (like in XP and W7), but couldn't find it on the Holux website.

Will try when I get home.

Update: works fine under W8.1
thanks.:thumbsup:


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

Anyone mentioned the Etrex 10?
Garmin eTrex 10
vs.
Holux RCV-3000 Bluetooth Wireless GPS Receiver Data Logger - Deep Blue + White - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

My Ertex 10 with modified maps.


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## guyclairbois (May 19, 2014)

Interesting discussion. I bought the RCV-3000 as well and found a very easy way to use it, as long as I take my smartphone with me as well (which I do anyway).

I downloaded an app on my Android smartphone called "Bluetooth GPS". You can use this app to connect to the RCV-3000 (switch it on first). Then you have the option to replace the smartphone's GPS signal with the RCV-3000's signal, using the 'developer mode' of your phone. The "Bluetooth GPS" app contains some hints on how to achieve that.

Now I just switch on both the "Bluetooth GPS" and the Strava app before riding, carry both my smartphone and my RCV-3000 with me, and record the ride directly in Strava, without any separate uploading required afterwards.


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## Malachi (Nov 24, 2013)

How much battery use does this save on say a 3 hour ride, I was thinking about getting a external bat for my phone but if this can reduce load and improve GPS it might be the better way to go.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

That's a damn good price for a handheld Garmin, right in the range of the dedicated dataloggers. Very worth a look. I wonder what chipset it has (did some light searching and didn't find any obvious info) but as long as it records with decent accuracy, I'd say that's a winner.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

guyclairbois said:


> Interesting discussion. I bought the RCV-3000 as well and found a very easy way to use it, as long as I take my smartphone with me as well (which I do anyway).
> 
> I downloaded an app on my Android smartphone called "Bluetooth GPS". You can use this app to connect to the RCV-3000 (switch it on first). Then you have the option to replace the smartphone's GPS signal with the RCV-3000's signal, using the 'developer mode' of your phone. The "Bluetooth GPS" app contains some hints on how to achieve that.
> 
> Now I just switch on both the "Bluetooth GPS" and the Strava app before riding, carry both my smartphone and my RCV-3000 with me, and record the ride directly in Strava, without any separate uploading required afterwards.


I know a couple folks do it that way, and it works well. I've done it as well, but for some reason I enjoy dealing with the hardware directly.

Here's the link to the software if anyone's looking: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=googoo.android.btgps

Since I don't use it with the phone I can't say, but one friend I asked said he saw a 50% improvement on battery life using bluetooth with the Holux vs. internal GPS.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

In related news, I forgot my Holux a couple times recently so took a look to see what new hotness there was in the datalogger category. Plenty of good stuff out there, and update rates in the 5-10Hz range, which would be even cooler for MTB. One thing to watch out for with the faster update rates is many of them still only *log* every second - but provide the faster rate via Bluetooth. I'm told that Orux Maps on Android works with the higher sampling rates, have not tried it because I did not get one.

What I did get, and am so far very happy with - is the Columbus V-900. It's not perfect, but for my use it's pretty close. It adds the ability to tag waypoints, which was one thing I missed on the Holux, but the big thing for me, running Mac and Linux, is it logs directly to a Micro SD card, so even with a 2GB card it's got massive recording ability, and since it logs to a CSV file, it's easy to use gpsbabel to convert to GPX:

gpsbabel -i v900 -f 14052300.CSV -o gpx -F 14052300.gpx

That file can then be uploaded to Strava/whatever.

Admittedly, for most folks, this is not going to be a perk, but I love it. In my tests, accuracy seems comparable between the Holux and the Columbus.


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## reimorei (Jan 2, 2014)

Garmin forerunner 310 XT with HRM strap are running at $179,00 at amazon.com
Msrp is $399,00. This is an excellent choice as a cycling gps although it doesn't have mapping functions, but you can still follow an uploaded or recorded course


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

quick follow up on the Columbus - it's still pretty cool, and it's a good backup, but in terms of accuracy and repeatability, the Holux is still far better. Had a couple rides where the Columbus had some accuracy errors bad enough to miss entire segments. Booo. So, if you're considering it, despite the shitty windows software, the Holux is still the winner for me. Wish I could get my hands on more units (so many out there now!) and write up a better comparison but at least the Holux is still a good, cheap alternative.

Then again, with all the Garmins and stuff heading cheaper and cheaper, data loggers like the Holux are probably going to be less necessary. To be fair, they haven't been exactly _necessary_ for a while.


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