# Champion Cruiser, Klunker conversion.



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

I recently picked up a late 70's early 80's Champion Cruiser frame that has been converted to a Klunker at some point in it's life. Before I start putting it back together again I wanted to get any first hand information any of you all might have on this bikes history. I have read all the posts about this bike on the BMX sites and also the post about it here on VRC a while back.

I see the bike as a great transition between the BMX cruiser class and the emerging Mtn bikes of the time. Since putting together my Klunker I discovered how much influence BMX had on early mountain bikes. Thus the desire to find a cool Cruiser project. This is what I came up with.

My goal will be to put it back the way it was in this first photo I found online of the bike
No idea, who took this photo?









And here is my starting point today:









Close up of an early bash guard:









Any information on this bike is appreciated.
Next step will be to identify all the parts and start shopping.

Wish me luck,
T


----------



## dick (Dec 13, 2006)

edit: eh I guess you've already read everything posted about it here and elsewhere, can't imagine there's much else to tell.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Nah, reread that post. There is nothing covered there except opinions and banter. I am looking for actual information on the early build.
Cheers,
T


----------



## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

there's a shimano logo on the bashguard cover in th b/w pic - presumably some of the drivetrain was shimano?


----------



## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

cool project..I don't have squat for info but I'll keep my eyes and ears open for you...


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Nothing to add either, but it looks like a fun project! 

Post your progress!


----------



## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

mechagouki said:


> there's a shimano logo on the bashguard cover in th b/w pic - presumably some of the drivetrain was shimano?


Forget that, looking more closely at the picture the crank/spider/ring look like Sugino or SR units common on mid 1980s BMX - very common and probably not hard to source - check your local Goodwill for an early Huffy or similar. The front light is familiar - they had a (very breakable) nylon bracket which the light unit slid into - identical rear units with a red lens were also available. I don't think the bike was built with any in-house parts and as such you could probably make your build look very acceptable with any period correct BMX parts you can find - wheels are probably araya or ukai rims on Suzue (or similar) hubs. Stem would likely be SR or Ukai.


----------



## lazyracer (Apr 11, 2004)

The red Champion frame you have pictured was originally sold in 1980-1981, it was manufactured by the motorcycle flat track racing frames company called *"Champion Racing Frames"*. It was designed very similar to a scaled down flat track motorcycle frame, with small diameter double down tubes, horizontal box section rear dropouts and square box section chain stays. It had a BMX style 1-piece bottom bracket setup also. It was originally conceived as a 26" BMX cruiser, was somewhat heavy and flexy because of the double down tubes being not very rigid. It also had crank clearance issues if you were riding thru rough ground, because of the low bottom bracket height. It was a dynamite beach cruiser though. There were no cantilever brake mounts on the frame.

I built up one of these in 1980 and similar to your frame as shown, I welded on a rear deraileur hanger for a 5 speed rear cluster. I used Sturmey Archer drum brakes front & rear for the brakes, it weighed in at about 35 pounds, which was heavy even back then. It was a fire road demon, perhaps even a "champion" at that discipline. That may have been what they were originally designed to be.

I competed in quite a few of the early 1980's mountain bike events in California on this "Champion" framed bike, and later I got a RItchey mt bike frame, which was lighter.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

*One piece down many to go*

I found one of these last week in my quest for proper parts. Sturmey Archer SBF (LF).
Look forward to it's arrival. Hope it looks as good as the one in this photo.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Gathering.

View attachment 463855


----------



## ericb49 (Aug 11, 2006)

...poop... :eekster:


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

what is that bar next to the forks?


----------



## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

nuck_chorris said:


> what is that bar next to the forks?


A reinforced seatpost.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Cook Bros. laidback seatpost. Period correct and looks cool in a laidback sort of way, but not sure it's going to make the cut because it doesn't quite fit in with the one in the BW picture. Not ever being a BMX rider or collector, I need to tactfully ask around on the BMX forums and determine what type of bars and post those are in the picture. The people on the forums seem pretty willing to share info with newbies like me even when they come walking into the forum asking the obvious.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Aemmer said:


> Cook Bros. laidback seatpost. Period correct and looks cool in a laidback sort of way, but not sure it's going to make the cut because it doesn't quite fit in with the one in the BW picture. Not ever being a BMX rider or collector, I need to tactfully ask around on the BMX forums and determine what type of bars and post those are in the picture. The people on the forums seem pretty willing to share info with newbies like me even when they come walking into the forum asking the obvious.


My guess would be GT for the bars and the post.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

probably a tuf neck or pro neck under that pad. Looks like one piece Sugino type crank setup.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

I don't think Huffy's had a chromoly crank in most cases. I may have one laying around.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks for the leads on identifying.
Huffy? Isn't that something they used to toss at old Mtn bike gatherings? 
T


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Aemmer said:


> Thanks for the leads on identifying.
> Huffy? Isn't that something they used to toss at old Mtn bike gatherings?
> T


BMX gatherings as well.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

*Bastard stepbrother*

Well, it's not a true Cruiser, It's not a Klunker, it's not really a Mountainbike either. It's kinda all of the above:

Rainy day, Dirt drop Ritchey done, trying to figure what direction to go next. For whatever reason, the Champion project hasn't been beconning me much lately. Today I slapped together what I have collected for it so far, substituted a few key pieces, just to get a vision of where it is going. Trying to motivate my feelings a little:

Thoughts? I can take criticism fairly well, and certainly there are those of you here who could care less about the early hybirds. I also know there are a few of you here who really dig these 26" BMX frames. I was never a BMXer and have no passion for that form of vintage bike collecting, I do love early Mtn bikes though and respect all BMX offered our fledging sport at the time.

I will post a few of the 130 photo's I just took (isn't digital great):


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




----------



## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

T,

Love the frame.

Glad to see you're progressing on this one...been a while  



Not sure about the blue cranks/pedals, (I see they match the Cooks sticker), but I think I'd be tempted to hit 'em with easy Off and give them a trip to the buffing wheel.


Seatpost is cool from a function standpoint, ( I have one on my Redline), but they always look a bit off. Does make wheelies easier though  



Keep it going, I want to see some finished pics and a ride report.





Steve


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

That's pretty much it....so far.....


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Like it a lot , not really feelin the seat post though .


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Love B72's but on there it's just wrong. A nice Uni might just make that post bearable.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

My impressions:
Not really big on blue, red, gold or any other anno color. A lot of this era stuff has that option though. My nicer nos next gen MKS's are gold aaak. I would feel guilty removing the anno on these parts, but we will see.

VDC bars and DK stem will end up on my prewar Schwinn. Still seeking the right priced Tuf/pro neck stem and affordable (hahahahaha) cruiser bars ...

The reason behind the layback post is, if I am going to have any chance to ride this frame at all, I need all the room in the cockpit I can create. Trying to let the layback look grow on me but it's not really happening.

I like the Maguras they will stay.
Oakley 3's fit.
Need to get the older style Suntour thumbie.
Tioga headset is a keeper.
Dig the Cook fork.
78 vintage SA drum hubs front and rear are spot on.
1.75 Ukais are sweet.
Bring on the Snakebellies (yea right, right after I find an affordable cruiser bar).
I like the B-72 and think it pulls the bike a little more toward a MTB build and less of a Cruiser. 
Suntour seat clamp is nice, i like silver. 
Sugino Cranks are proper , I wouldn't mind a nicer bottom bracket.
Those KKT rat traps are a little too ratty but proper for the era. only good price on the bike, $1 last years bike swap. Contemplating some NOS BM7's I have instead.
Winner freewheel.

Still need to find a correct rear der. Suntour Cyclone......
In researching Champions I read one mag article that said they were painted and another that said they were powdercoated. This frame lost its original paint when the mtb conversions were welded on. If I am to commit, I am thinking powdercoat. The stickers on the bike are not original and not really put on that well either. 
After that, it would be some detail work to make it look like the old picture.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Echo...Too many colors. I have tried the red/blue/yellow combo. Always looked thrown together. Stem is wrong era (but you knew that). Even if you can't find a reasonably priced tuf neck, try a sugino or similar.


----------



## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

I would keep in mind the people building these up as MTB's in the day were adults. They tended to stay away from a mix of ano parts that was all the rage with the younger set. The few survivors I've seen were pretty subtle in there use of color. 

Looks like it's really coming together nice but that stem has got to go!


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

*Tuf*

A few questions and a purchase.

Ok after staring at these things for over a year, I tuffed up and bought this one. Rider quality to me.....and mm mm silver.










Looking at a 39 tooth silver TN ring for up front also. ..

Do any of you vintage BMXers know how small you can find the Tuf-neck or equvelant chainrings era correct fitting the Sugino's?

Seems like with a 13-30 freewheel in the rear, I am probably going to want as small as I can fit up front.

Lastly looking for a Suntour Mighty shifter. Are they all compatible with 5/6/or 7 speed freewheels?

stepping in. Thanks for the info.


----------



## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Aemmer said:


> Seems like with a 13-30 freewheel in the rear, I am probably going to want as small as I can fit up front.


I wouldn't get too hung up on that. It's not like that's ever going to be a great climber anyway, and if you try hitting an easy gear while seated on that set-back post, you're probably going to end up on your arse. Although standing to climb anything steep will probably result in some knee smacking, so you can't really win. If you've got a line on a 39t, that should be pretty good with a 30 in back.


----------



## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

Love the Tuf-Neck! 

I'll check my stash of chainrings but I think 39 may be the smallest I've seen.


----------



## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

JT Racing sticker is awesome. Looks like a fun build!


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Yeah nice neck. I think the smallest TF chain ring I have is a 40, but I think I do have a couple in silver.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

*Weekend Question*

I have never needed to use a chain guide and know very little about them. Unfortunately I have two holes drilled in the frame for a chain guide. I will either have to fill them in or find an era correct chainguide to put in
the holes. Out of curiosity, does anyone know what era correct chainguide would have used a pattern like this? 
Thanks,
T


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Huh, I was wondering what those holes were for.

Seat post is horrible.


----------



## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

Nice bike! I'd like to have one.
Those early suntour shifters will shift 5-7 speeds maybe more.
The magura levers are a good choice, why not use a magura bar, if you can't find a Cook Bros?
I'd also try to reproduce the seat post that is in the ad, it looks pretty easy to make.
I might be able to supply the shifter.
chris ioakimedes


----------



## felkman (Sep 21, 2010)

Just wanted to say I love the Champion. Since you are trying to build it like the picture, have you thought of using a Tioga snakepost? I love the Cooks Brothers post you have on there but do you have room under your seat to flip the seat guts over so the seat is around the post and not sitting on top? I think it would look more natural, plastic bmx seats don't flex like a brooks, so you may not be able to flip it. I think 39 tooth was the smallest chainring you can use with your super maxy cranks. If you don't mind reproduction, Justin at porkchopbmx.com has some 39t. Great build!


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

felkman said:


> Just wanted to say I love the Champion. Since you are trying to build it like the picture, have you thought of using a Tioga snakepost? I love the Cooks Brothers post you have on there but do you have room under your seat to flip the seat guts over so the seat is around the post and not sitting on top? I think it would look more natural, plastic bmx seats don't flex like a brooks, so you may not be able to flip it. I think 39 tooth was the smallest chainring you can use with your super maxy cranks. If you don't mind reproduction, Justin at porkchopbmx.com has some 39t. Great build!


When did those Tioga posts come out? I thought they were later. If we are talking 79-80, who was making laid back seat posts back then?


----------



## felkman (Sep 21, 2010)

ScottyMTB said:


> When did those Tioga posts come out? I thought they were later. If we are talking 79-80, who was making laid back seat posts back then?


Good point, I think the Tiogas were around 84 -85 when they came out. I am not sure of who made snake posts that early. I think he should stick with the CB just flip the seat clamp if it will fit under the brooks.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

ScottyMTB said:


> When did those Tioga posts come out? I thought they were later. If we are talking 79-80, who was making laid back seat posts back then?


You read my mind...... Exactly my free time bicycle lesson plan for the week.

FWIW I took off the Cooks and put on an era correct but straight Redline for now while I pursue a layback. I have been browsing the BMX forums the past couple of days trying to confirm my options for a 79/80 layback seatpost. The only site I ever find that has parts listed by available date is Mombats and of course, not much real bmx info there.

By looking at others bikes on the forums, I am thinking GT, Kuwahara, or Tuf Neck?

GT seems easiest to pursue, but then I also need to learn how to determine older post from newer.....

I have thought about mounting the clamp on the Cook bros in the middle between the brace and the bend but after seeing that post on the bike it doesn't look close enough to the picture

I do have a silver 39 tooth Tuf Neck chainring coming my way, and the Tuf neck stem is already mounted. Think I will try to strip the KKT Rattraps down to silver when I get a chance this week .

Thoughts? 
Thanks for your input,
T


----------



## felkman (Sep 21, 2010)

Aemmer said:


> You read my mind...... Exactly my free time bicycle lesson plan for the week.
> 
> FWIW I took off the Cooks and put on an era correct but straight Redline for now while I pursue a layback. I have been browsing the BMX forums the past couple of days trying to confirm my options for a 79/80 layback seatpost. The only site I ever find that has parts listed by available date is Mombats and of course, not much real bmx info there.
> 
> ...


I don't think I ever saw one before 84, I can't remember who all made them (Tioga was the first that I can remember, then GT, Revco, Dyno, and later, Odyssey. I liked the Tioga because it had in internal brace to keep it from bending. If you are truly trying to find era correct, just ask on the bmx forum and I am sure you will get an answer as to who made them (if anyone did at that time).


----------



## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

I love the idea of mounting the seat up on the post. I've seen them mounted that way on cruisers and it looks pretty trick. Unless you are trying to do an exact replica give it a shot. There is no cooler layback than a CBR. I'll check my magazine stash for what was available 79/80 for other style laybacks. 

I think you have those Oakley 3's on backwards.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

bmxcollector said:


> I think you have those Oakley 3's on backwards.


So much for pride  ..
Color me a Mtn biker.....

You can take the boy out of the mountain but you can't take the mountain out of the boy.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Check out the way the cook Bros saddle is mounted in this photo....
I was thinking this way might look good.


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Aemmer said:


> Check out the way the cook Bros saddle is mounted in this photo....
> I was thinking this way might look good.


I would like one each from the bottom row, please. 

I was thinking about making you a trade offer when you posted it in the trade thread, but you're doing a way better job with it than I would have. Very cool project.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Yeah that looks pretty cool. Just don't chop the end off like somebody did to this CW.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

*Vintage bright:*

I can't believe I just won this.... what a treat.....










Any suggestions on how to dye it black?










Sometimes it is the little things.

Oh well, If it doesn't work out I guess I just paid too much for a new flashlight....

Cheers,
T


----------



## MERK26 (Aug 31, 2009)

Cool! You could probably get away with painting that if you give the plastic a light scuffing, then shoot it with Krylon "Fusion" spray paint...


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Yeah you can probably use the Rit dye (I think that is what it is called) that people dye tuff wheels with all the time. Works great.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

ScottyMTB said:


> Yeah you can probably use the Rit dye (I think that is what it is called) that people dye tuff wheels with all the time. Works great.


Available at Target, Walmart, grocery store.


----------



## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

For turning the headlight black try eastwood
http://www.eastwood.com/black-plastic-interior-paint-kit.html
Chris


----------



## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

I know you're changing the bars, but make sure to put the left grip on the left side and the right grip on the right side. Currently they're installed backwards.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Blaster1200 said:


> I know you're changing the bars, but make sure to put the left grip on the left side and the right grip on the right side. Currently they're installed backwards.


Yea yea you got me...... rub it in

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxcollector
I think you have those Oakley 3's on backwards.

So much for pride ..
Color me a Mtn biker.....

You can take the boy out of the mountain but you can't take the mountain out of the boy.


----------



## bicycleguy111 (Jan 23, 2010)

wheres the schwinn king sting in that set of pictures??? that was one of the best bmx cruisers out there


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Nice!


----------



## Mr Cabletwitch (Apr 16, 2009)

Still need that cyclone rear der.? I have a nice minty one on the work bench at home PM if you still need one.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Sometimes projects take a while. Not done with this yet, but still managed to get out for a Easter morning ride on it yesterday. Four years and counting:


----------



## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

Nice picture! I might have a high rise clamp-on Fisher bar, tig welded by Nitto. I will look. I know that I have the long reach clamp-ons.


----------



## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Great picture T.

It's about time you finished this one...(at least enough to ride).
Some more detail shots would be cool...what happened to the headlight?

Steve


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Great picture T.
> 
> It's about time you finished this one...(at least enough to ride).
> Some more detail shots would be cool...what happened to the headlight?
> ...


Headlight is still in it's box. On the to do list. Need to re configure it so it takes reasonable batteries and a modern bulb. 
Also need to create better Champion decals. 
Make a skid plate. 
Remove the reflectors from the pedals (hey it's the little things)
Everything else is just about the way I want it.

Just got that matching Uniroyal nobby for the front and digging it. 
Switched out the 6 speed freewheel that didn't fit in the rear for a 5. 
Wired it up so I could ride it.

I am a sucker for the really old bikes but I have to say; I couldn't imagine riding this for an all day ride.


----------



## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

Aemmer said:


> View attachment 575498


Very nice, yes...The old moto bars are the only way to go....They don't sweep back so far so one can actually be a bit more comfortable.
CBR fork? Ukai or arayas? tuf neck? oakley 3s? Maguras? please a closer pic.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes, Ukai, Yes, Yes, Yes, Someday.


----------

