# Why did you buy a Toyota?



## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Not only did they over take Ford in sales, but they also took top honors for most recalls, two years running! 

They're recalling nearly 1 million vehicals worldwide this year on most of there models. Last year they recalled 2.2 million. That comes out to 10% of the total number of cars made by Toyota are recalled anually. The second most recalled manufacture doesn't even come close. Shame. So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

I have not bought a new car since 1976.


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## RickC5 (Sep 23, 2004)

*IMHO, Toyotas were great before 1995*

In 1995, Toyota began "de-contenting" their cars & trucks when they came out with new models. The first was the small pickup. Those who bought new 1995 Tacomas like I did can attest to a multitude of problems. Not all due to de-contenting, but it also seemed like Toyota decided to let their customers "test" their vehicles rather than test them before putting them on the market.

After 1995, if you wanted a Toyota that had the same quality levels as the pre-1995 models, you had to switch to Lexus, which was an interesting marketing strategy on Toyota's part.

As I mentioned in the title of this post, this is only my opinion, but the Toyota of today is NOTHING like the pre-1995 Toyotas. If you don't believe me, just visit some of the car & truck forums, like Edmunds, and read about the problems people have with Toyotas, especially newly released or redesigned models. Things change.......


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

shiggy said:


> I have not bought a new car since 1976.


What do you drive?


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## djcrb9 (Jan 13, 2004)

Buying a new car is stupid. Why bring another car into the world? A car that is 3 years old and has low miles is the perfect price to value ratio, and can easily be $10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing.

I never have owned a Toyota, but a couple friends of mine that have had their cars or pickups have never had any problems.


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## Godzilla (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm assuming that you meant to ask - "why did you buy a Toyota instead of one of Detroit's offerings?" 

First, I no longer drive a Toyota, not for any reason in particular, just because - but I still feel I may be qualified to give you the answer you're looking for.

1. Many Toyotas are built in Ohio - more jobs for US workers

2. Many "Good Ol' American" companies, like Dodge, have their uninspired shite assembled in Mexico - need I say more?

3. Longevity - how many of those @ss ugly Grand Prix do you see cruising around with 300k+ miles on them?

4. Pride - I can't bring myself to purchase a car dreamt up by a bunch of engineers whose crowning achievments, thus far, are basically reworked and watered down 70s muscle cars, and "Barbie appeal" PT Cruisers, Jeep Libertys, etc...

5. Everyone faces recalls - the more conscientious companies address the issue and get things fixed, instead of waiting for a gazillion rollovers before pointing the finger at tire manufacturers, or whomever else is convenient.

I don't consider Toyota the "be all end all" of MFGs - but they come alot closer than many of their competitors.

Why do you ask?


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## BadHabit (Jan 12, 2004)

AC/BC said:


> So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


The car I keep in the city continues to be our black 1993 Toyota Camry V6 wagon--Lexus ES300 chassis, engine and drivetrain. (Debadged, of course, with Lexus rims and fat tires.)

1. Configuration

2. Appearance

3. Reliability

All still holds true with 154k. Still one of the best-looking cars in the big lot out back. I just drive it and change the oil. Ah, the FM recently failed.

What a cool car! Only rust will ever pry it from me. Superb on the highway and in town still.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

Because I wanted a reliable truck that all the features that, and that year only, of Toyo truck had. So all these years later with 257k on the clock my 85 Toyo pickup is still going.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

*Bought a Toyota last year*

Of course, it was a 1978. Since it had a new used engine, I don't know how many miles were on it. It worked well for eight months, then the tranny went, which would have cost more than the was worth to fix. Good value for the money. Could have used more headroom, at 5'10" I was about half an inch from the ceiling.


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## JAK (Jan 6, 2004)

*yup...*



djcrb9 said:


> Buying a new car is stupid. Why bring another car into the world? A car that is 3 years old and has low miles is the perfect price to value ratio, and can easily be $10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing.
> 
> I never have owned a Toyota, but a couple friends of mine that have had their cars or pickups have never had any problems.


A car goes off the lot and before the car stops at the first stop sign, the owner has lost roughly 30% of the $$ they just spent....can you say lame investment?!


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## Dave'sNotHere (Feb 28, 2006)

I bought my current ride brand new in '94, Toyota Pick-Up. Made in Japan. Before I put my money down I asked to see the original Jap paperwork to make sure I wasn't putting money in the pocket of an American Auto Worker. They screwed our family in '73 by building a turd they called a Malibu Classic. My entire extended family has sworn off American cars ever since. We remember.

Resaon I went Toyota? My last one was still going strong at 385,000 miles. Problem was, it wasn't a truck ('77 Celica Lift-back).

djcrb9 sez:

"Buying a new car is stupid. Why bring another car into the world? A car that is 3 years old and has low miles is the perfect price to value ratio, and can easily be $10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing."

OK Genius, Riddle Me This:

My '94 Toyota Pick-Up cost me $8,000. You're telling me I could've had a '91 for "$10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing." This means someone would've paid me $2,000 to accept a used truck? 

What World do you live in?


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## djcrb9 (Jan 13, 2004)

JAK said:


> A car goes off the lot and before the car stops at the first stop sign, the owner has lost roughly 30% of the $$ they just spent....can you say lame investment?!


exactly. It amazes me how many people are so eager to buy new cars. Is it stupidity? Ego? Just can't handle driving something someone else has owned?

Or maybe the car offers something no used car would have... but that is awefully rare.


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## djcrb9 (Jan 13, 2004)

Dave'sNotHere said:


> I
> djcrb9 sez:
> 
> "Buying a new car is stupid. Why bring another car into the world? A car that is 3 years old and has low miles is the perfect price to value ratio, and can easily be $10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing."
> ...


Obviously, we're talking about different priced cars here. 
Go look at $40,000 cars. Now go look at said $40,000 car three years used.
Hell, Look at $30,000 or $35,000 cars. A car loses 30% almost immediately. Take $35,000 minus 30%.


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## BadHabit (Jan 12, 2004)

djcrb9 said:


> exactly. It amazes me how many people are so eager to buy new cars. Is it stupidity? Ego? Just can't handle driving something someone else has owned?
> 
> Or maybe the car offers something no used car would have... but that is awefully rare.


Although--I tell people bikes depreciate at the same rate.

I bought our Volvo new because it was the first year of a new design, which I really wanted and couldn't wait for used. (Of course, the first-year gremlins showed up!)

Have a good weekend.


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## grnxb (Jan 8, 2006)

*wife and I bought a Scion (toyota)*

We bought it because of:

Cost
Styling
Gas Mileage
It's a Toyota, made in Japan (percieved reliability)
Seems to be well-built, although it only has 30k mi so far, so we'll see.

I'd like to get a new Tacoma or another Nissan when my Nissan truck finally stops running so well.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Just because there are some recalls doesn't mean that it still doesn't have better reliability or quality. The american manufacturers were retarded to dump so much into SUVs, and now they are paying the price for it. Too bad for them.


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## leximog (Jan 30, 2004)

Dwight Moody said:


> Of course, it was a 1978. Since it had a new used engine, I don't know how many miles were on it. It worked well for eight months, then the tranny went, which would have cost more than the was worth to fix. Good value for the money. Could have used more headroom, at 5'10" I was about half an inch from the ceiling.


I found the same thing. I had a couple of old SWs, a Corona and a Corolla Diesel. Too small, I ended up with neck-back strain from trying to fit 6' of me in the driver's seat.

I got them because they were cheap and reliable, but so are Nissan.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

*Because I'm fiscally retentive*

29 mpg in the city
Inexpensive initial investment
Inexpensive to operate

1992 2 wheel drive pickup w/ manual tranny bought used in 1997.


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## SaxMan (May 21, 2005)

I own a '99 4Runner, bought used in 2001. It was built in Japan. I've got 106,000 on it and it still runs great, no rattles or squeaks. I also have a 2004 Corolla, bought with 10k on it and it is a great car, too.

Toyotas aren't as racy or as slick to drive as Hondas, but they are very, very durable.


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## Julianna (Mar 5, 2004)

*No Toyota*



> Greets,
> 
> I must admit, I have not owned a Toyota. However, my Mentor did indeed own a quite nice 1980 Toyota Corolla (or so he claims as I was but a few years old and have only seen photographs of the vehicle). He absolutely adored the car until it was destroyed when an incompetant driver struck into it.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

my girlfriend's parents drive a 97(?) sienna with well over 150k.

i've never heard them complain about anything to date.

we have taken it to burning man twice. if you don't know anything about burning man, think fine alkaline dust. so far, the sienna has not complained, although my girl's mom takes good care of it.


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## Clutch (Apr 26, 2005)

Quality has more to do with design and management than the nationality of the assembly workers. 

BTW: Japan's reputation for quality has a lot more to do with Americans like Deming and Juran than it does any genitic predisposition for quality workmanship.


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

AC/BC said:


> Not only did they over take Ford in sales, but they also took top honors for most recalls, two years running!
> 
> They're recalling nearly 1 million vehicals worldwide this year on most of there models. Last year they recalled 2.2 million. That comes out to 10% of the total number of cars made by Toyota are recalled anually. The second most recalled manufacture doesn't even come close. Shame. So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


My dad always bought Ford, and always tuned and fixed them himself. He used to make me help him work on his car. I hated it. Every seemingly simple 15 minute job would turn into a drawn out ordeal, as rust seized nuts or awkward access made the jobs drag on for hours. I hated those Ford cars, since they always needed work. They were garbage.

I had two GM cars, which were total trash. The Corvette was a maintenance nightmare. The friggin thing spent more time in the shop than on the road. The first day I owned it, a muffler fell off on the way home after buyin g the car new. The car spent the first two months in the shop for warranty work. The dealer got so tired of fixing all the problems, that he asked me not to bring it back anymore. He basically admitted the car was crap and his shop had fixed it up the best it could. Too bad the windows still scraped every time I openned and closed the doors, and the headlight scraped paint off the bady every time it was operated up or down. I ended up taking the doors appart myself and adjusting the friggen windows. Then it was regular visits to the shop for fifteen years, as everything broke on the car, except the transmission (M10). I spent twice as much money repairing that car over the years as I paid for it new.

The GM cars I owned were total garbage.

I have friends who own Chrysler Vans. The transmissions go on those Vans all the time. You would think that a big company like Chrysler who has been building these things for twenty years would get around to fixing their crappy transmissions, but twenty years later those crappy transmissions are still falling apart. That this comapnay will not fix such an obvious and glaring problem with their Vans, which is known by every mechanic is beyond belief. One can only conclude that they deliberately leave the transmisson problem, and have no interest in fixing it, so they can sell you a new one later. Chrysler is a $hit company. They deserve to go bankrupt.

Bottom line is that American car's from my experience are all style and horsepower, with no substance. American cars are all about image, instead of transportation. I don't like the image of buying crap that breaks all the time, cost too much for gas, and needs warranty work all the time.

I have owned three Toyota's and only one of them needed any warranty work. That one needed an adjustment to a seatbelt. That is it.

The only things to ever break or need work have been normal wear parts. After 13 years, my old Corrolla still passed an emmissions test by a mile. With both old Corrollas at over
270,000 kilometers, we passed them on to our kids to use, and they are still going strong.

I will never go back to buying crap American cars.

Unfortunately, my experience with American cars has colored my perception of anything American made. I would prefer to buy something made elsewhere, since I suspect the quality and usefulness of anything made in USA.

old dude


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## JDZ (Jan 12, 2004)

Gas mileage. My wife insisted on getting an SUV that seats 7. I couldn't figure out why since we only have one kid. The Highlander 4 cyl gets the best gas mileage in that category other than hybrids. To be honest I really don't like it very much. It's extremely boring in the way it looks and drives. There are also some very annoying details about it that I won't go into. I also owned a Celica before and was not that happy with it. I don't understand the infatuation with Toyota's and Honda's myself. I like Nissan's much better but they still have their problems too. I also like my Chevy although I probably have to work on it more than a typical Japanese made truck that has 175,000 miles. At least the parts are cheap and easy to replace.


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## JM01 (Mar 29, 2005)

not me yet (I'm sticking with my Explorer V8 AWD), but my daughter bought a Highlander and her BF has a Tundra because they have good service up north, my mom drives a Corrolla because she has always driven Toyota since Toyota came to Canada, my sister had a Previa because she's stupid, and Mrs. M. is on the waiting list for the FJ Cruiser because it looks like a Hummer humped a minivan

Actually...they all bought Toyota because of price, reliability, and service


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## romar (Sep 16, 2006)

Bottom line for my reasoning on my Toyotas was resale value. I've owned a couple. '95 Pick-up, '98 Tacoma, and now I have a '00 Tundra. I've had no issues with the first two, the Tundra on the other hand has given me some grief (grenaded tranny & 4X4 actuator sticking) and all of it came slightly past the mileage warranty.:madman: Guess that's what you get for buying a First model year vehicle. Stll, I gotta give credit where credit is due, It's been extremely reliable since those two expensive repairs. For an example, I'm not sure how the japs do this but if you look at my Tundras front end, all the steering components look flimsy and "cheap" but with 140k on the clock, everything is original and the front end is still super tight. My wifes '03 Envoy, 45k on it, front end parts all burly as hell. They look like they should be on a semi. I had to replace a tie rod end for it to pass inspection this year!! It was toast.


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## tcp (Jan 20, 2004)

*value, longevity, comfort, reliability.*

The recalls are generally for small items that have had a few problems.

We bought a Sienna van last year. New. With a two month old baby and a honda civic and audi 4000 as our regular vehicles, we needed something bigger....fast. While Dodge(transmission problems), gm(smaller very aged design), Nissan(poor quality control in 2004,05 - many recalls) and ford(need I say more) had options for us, the included equipment in the toyota and the design was perfect. The only other option was honda, but their transmissions have been suspect and prices started a few thousand higher than the toyota. no regrets at all. Its comfortable and can carry us, baby, BABY STUFF(huge quantities) and the dogs kennel without issue. Hitch mount bike rack is perfect. resale is always high on these(not that it matters to us - expect to keep it 15-20years, like our other vehicles).



 AC/BC said:


> Not only did they over take Ford in sales, but they also took top honors for most recalls, two years running!
> 
> They're recalling nearly 1 million vehicals worldwide this year on most of there models. Last year they recalled 2.2 million. That comes out to 10% of the total number of cars made by Toyota are recalled anually. The second most recalled manufacture doesn't even come close. Shame. So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

*From Durango, CO to Durango, MX......*

16 years and 326K miles later.....

1990 Toyota Tercel....R.I.P. 35 mpg city until engine crapped out.

With a trusty Yakima trunk rack, I've been able to drive to destinations as varied as Durango, Colorado to Durango, Mexico. From the tip of Baja to the Oregon Coast. Multiple trips to Downieville, Mammoth, the Sierra Nevada, as well as my crappy commutes in urban So Cal.

Never had a single breakdown, never left me stranded, even drove it in to be donated.

Already have 18K on a new Corolla, 32 mpg in the city, 38-42 mpg on the highway (if I drove slower, could probably top 45 mpg)!

Wife's 2000 Ford Focus has been towed three times in '06, has stranded her several times in past years, not to mention several critical recalls.


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## Earl Scheib (Jan 21, 2004)

warranty.


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## T 3 (Jan 12, 2004)

Julianna said:


> > Greets,
> >
> > A poorly built European vehicle is superior to the best vehicle made in the USA! HAHAHA, Well, OK, western European! ;D


Worst cars I've owned in order: VW,BMW,Porsche

Never owned a Japanese car,but I love the way commercials for Japanese luxuary automobiles almost always have the voice-over done by a a guy with an upper crust British accent.... pathetic.

Great experience with American cars as far as quality,unfortunately American Auto Makers are too slow to respond to consumer trends.


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

Dave'sNotHere said:


> OK Genius, Riddle Me This:
> 
> My '94 Toyota Pick-Up cost me $8,000. You're telling me I could've had a '91 for "$10,000 or more less than a new version of the same thing." This means someone would've paid me $2,000 to accept a used truck?
> 
> What World do you live in?


Im assuming the world of "Today"


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Among the recalls were steering shaft failures. Thats not very minor


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## tcp (Jan 20, 2004)

*I'd suggest you never buy one...*

you deserve a FORD or GM...reward yourself.



AC/BC said:


> Among the recalls were steering shaft failures. Thats not very minor


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## goldenraptor (Aug 25, 2006)

I've seen a video on youtube where they take a 1993 Toyota Truck, crash it, drown it, launch it from 50+ feet off the ground, and a lot more and it still ran.

The model at 180k or something miles on it.


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## DesertDave (Jan 30, 2005)

*After a Fiat*

.. anything else is supreme. Fricken Italians Attempt at Transportation. 50 distinct warranty issues within the first year, zero issues corrected by dealer. Since then..

I have a Toyota. And a Jeep. And a Ford. I like them all. Bought two of them new. One was new 15 years ago (Ford) one was new 9 years ago (Jeep). Since I keep them a long time, the arguments about instant depreciation are somewhat moot to me. Since I keep them a long time, I like to buy them new, so that they are broken-in and maintained in the manner that I want. When I do sell them, I can do so with a clear conscience that I have told the full vehicle history to the new owner. That damn Fiat was sold for $750 with only 57,000 miles. I did include the screwdriver that was necessary to open the trunk.

I bought the Toyota used, in 1989. It is a 1974 FJ40. I don't think I'll sell it. It will drive through conditions that would put my Jeep into a body bag.

I do nearly all of the maintenance on all the vehicles, as a hobby. I think I catch issues when they are small and inexpensive to fix, which probably raises my satisfaction level higher than the average owner


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

IMO, Toyotas now are boring. The only Yotas i like are the old '80s Trueno AE-86 and the MR-2's.
They're both gone.


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## j944 (Feb 24, 2006)

RickC5 said:


> In 1995, Toyota began "de-contenting" their cars & trucks when they came out with new models. The first was the small pickup. Those who bought new 1995 Tacomas like I did can attest to a multitude of problems. Not all due to de-contenting, but it also seemed like Toyota decided to let their customers "test" their vehicles rather than test them before putting them on the market.
> 
> After 1995, if you wanted a Toyota that had the same quality levels as the pre-1995 models, you had to switch to Lexus, which was an interesting marketing strategy on Toyota's part.
> 
> As I mentioned in the title of this post, this is only my opinion, but the Toyota of today is NOTHING like the pre-1995 Toyotas. If you don't believe me, just visit some of the car & truck forums, like Edmunds, and read about the problems people have with Toyotas, especially newly released or redesigned models. Things change.......


I own a 98 T4R SR5 w/ 145k miles no issue's since day one. Reg maintence, timing belt etc. Only thing had to have fixed was copper connectors worn in the starter.
This truck has given no problems in eight years.(Too bad I cant say that about my E class)


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

*55 Mpg*

I sold my 16 year-old Acura and bought a new Toyota Prius. I usually get around 50mpg, sometimes more on country roads where I can average around 45 miles per hour. I love my Toyota. It feels good going downhill and knowing you're using no gas--just recharging the battery.

It has had a few recalls, but usually on minor things---software upgrades, etc. I always get a free loaner car. I guess its better to have frequent recalls to get small things fixed than to let those small problems fester until they become big problems. I think as new cars have more computerized components, there will be more bugs to fix.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

mine just got recalled for ball joints........love the 4 runner though......2 4 Runners 265,000 miles and all I replaced was a radiator

plus usual
tires 
brakes


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*This is my 4th toyota..*

i dont know.. it works..


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## rafdog (Jun 16, 2006)

Toyotas and Nissans i have owned just run....keep the oil changed and a little PM and they perform very well over longhaul....


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*I didn't*

Damn, quality is great but, geez, how about a little style. Camry, Avalon, Highlander? So boringly middle of the road.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Nice theory*

ut: So, everyone buys used cars, the new car industry goes away and within a decade we will be like Cuba. Funny how these utopian ideals don't work in the real world.


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

*TOYOTA* - _"The Official Truck of the Taliban"_

Buying a new car makes sense if you are buying something sporty. I wouldn't trust buying a used all-wheel drive manual turbo Subaru, would you? They are bound to have the crap run out of them...

That's why I bought a new car...

That being said, I'd prefer to restore an old car, be it a '65 GTO or a '32 Deuce with a flathead over the new junk anyday.


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## beagledadi (Jul 18, 2004)

*To get the bikes to the trailhead...*

..without any problems. I bought an 07 matrix and love this car. I was going back and forth with the Forester but the Toyota ended up in the garage


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## cruso414 (Aug 19, 2004)

*because I like to get where I am going,*

not hope I get where I am going.


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## prsman27 (Aug 16, 2006)

i have a 97 dodge dakota w/ 133k miles and a toyota corolla w/ 263k miles on it. i trust my 'yota more than i do my truck. i always liked american made trucks and hated import trucks until i went on an offroad trip w/ two friends that had tacoma's and i was very impressed! even by the 4-banger. now i have to say i like nissan and toyota trucks more than i do most american trucks (not my dakota though). i would have to agree w/ Rev Bubba, they lack on style big time.


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## TheBigC (Jan 3, 2005)

I personally bought one so it could throw a rod and leave me stranded in BFE whiel trying to make it to a buddys wedding. Good thing, too, cause I just plain missed that wedding. And Freeport, FL sure is BFE


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## Tame Ape (May 20, 2004)

Last car I owned was a 1988 Saab 900 Turbo SPG. Great car, great company. Well, back then it was...

No car now. Don't need it to get around or get things done around here.


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## Oafboy182 (Dec 28, 2005)

My mom always owned Toyota's until she decided to buy American, I told her American cars were built in Canada and Mexico, she didn't care. She never had any probs with the Toy's. Her last 3 cars have been Jeep grand cherokees and she has had problems with all of them. She is taking her newest one in today for the same transmission problem she has it in for several times already. Dealer says they cant replicate problem because they dont want to fix. She has recieved 3 service bulletins for the tranny already, car only a year old. They are replacing parts for the second time today, one more after this and she might get to use the lemon law. If they get it fixed she is probably going to sell it and get a 4 Runner. All the newew cars I've had have been Jap and never had any problems. Only American I'v had are 60's Fords when there was no technology in them to go wrong and Americans had more pride in their country and the work they do.


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

Here's a pic of my Toyota. It's much bigger in person, the photo was taken at a downward angle.









She turned 18 sometime this month. 2 1/2" Old Man Emu lift. ARB bull bar. Stock other than that.

It takes a little TLC to keep it as my daily driver and there have been times when I wanted to push it off a cliff. But all in all, it has been a very dependable rig, both on road and off... and I honestly can't name a 4wd vehicle that I'd rather have than a Land Cruiser... Truely an engineering masterpiece.:thumbsup: I hope to get another 18 good years out of it.

I've gone back and read all the posts and have a couple of things to add.

You can definitely tell the difference between a Toyota assembled in Japan (i.e. Land Cruiser) and ones built in America for the US Domestic Market (i.e. Sequoia) in terms of fit and finish and quality of workmanship. The Japanese product is far superior. As to what the quality of Toyota's offerings is now days, we will not know until the next 20 yrs go by. Toyota has done away with most of their proven quality drivetrains over the last decade (f series engine, the 22re, etc...) and time will tell if the replacements are worthy. One thing that can be said for sure is that the Toyotas that we get stateside now days are much different than the vehicles that the rest of the world gets, even in the Land Cruiser line. Since the US has the best infrastructure and the most pavement of any nation in the world, there is no doubt in my mind that the vehicles designed for and sold in the less developed markets (Venezuela, Afganistan, Austrailia) are far superior in terms of toughness and durabilty than their American counterparts.

The fact of the matter is that the US market buys new cars all the time, so a lot of toughness and durability is sacraficed for comfort and bling. If a car gives the average owner 5 fairly trouble free years, it is typically considered a good vehicle...

The Hilux (u.s.'s tacoma) that was thrashed in the british show, Top Gear, is a diesel. This engine is still in use in the rest of the world, but Toyota USA insists on cramming "Hybrid" technology down our throats instead of providing a proven durable diesel powerplant that is more fuel effiecient than it's gas counterpart and can easily be converted to run on veggie oil.

I want a diesel Land Cruiser!

Rant off.


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## bermluvr (Aug 2, 2006)

tha1000, that thing is so killer... love it!

I will probably only ever buy Nissans... I love my 3.5 Altima, and because I am considering going back to school, something like a 200SX SE-R might be seen in my driveway soon enough


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

FisherCraig said:


> tha1000, that thing is so killer... love it!


Thanks!

I get more compliments and "How much do you want for it?"'s on it than on anything I've ever owned... and I never have difficulty locating it in a parking lot.


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

Oafboy182 said:


> My mom always owned Toyota's until she decided to buy American, I told her American cars were built in Canada and Mexico, she didn't care.


The Jeep Grand Cherokee is built in Detroit.

That being said, many "American" cars are built in Canada and Mexico.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

tha1000, that's a very clean car!
And about that Hilux, that couldn't be killed! Driving it into a sea, setting fire to it, crashing down a falling building, man that was awesome!

And about the AE86, my dream car, they're all trashed from trying to do engine swaps or trying to drift. The clean ones, very rare, are also expensive as hell.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

...........


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

We bought my wife's used 2005 Tacoma 4 door longbed because of past reliability and resale value. My wife's last Toyota, an '89 4Runner, needed the motor rebuilt at 390,000. We rebuilt the motor for $1200, and sold the truck for $5500. We've had other Toyota trucks and all have gone over 250,000 miles with regular maintenanace. I've lemon lawed two vehicles recently and although the judgements went my way, it was time consuming. Toyota has a proven track record with us so for our "keeper car" we stuck with what works for us.


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

JAK said:


> can you say lame investment?!


First of all, a vehicle is not an investment. A vehicle is a utility, (it could even be classified as a consumable I guess) like electricity. You pay a fee for a service.

I love Toyota and Honda vehicles because they provide me with the most service for my dollar.

I think one of the real problems with vehicles today, even Toyota and Honda is that they are desinged to be disposable. Seems like every 3 years people are turning in their cars for a new one. If someone keeps a car for 5 years it is a miracle. 20 years ago, people kept their cars until they died, at least in my family. My dad's last truck a 1987 GMC Sierra pickup, was 17 years old when he got rid of it. And the problem was rust at that point.

I have a 2005 Toyota Tacoma which I love. I like the styling, mileage, and reliability. I hope that this is a truck I can have for 10 years.


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## nor_cal_rider (Jan 16, 2006)

Quality and reliability.

I just purchased a mini-van for my wife - our 6th Toyota since '84. Honestly 2 were "old" Land Cruisers I used for rockcrawling, but still they are/were the best vehichles we have owned. Currently we have 3 Toyotas - the '06 Sienna, a '97 Land Cruiser, and a '74 Land Cruiser. The '97 has been a joy to own - picked it up from a lease-return for less than half the price of a new one. It was 3 yrs older and higher miles than my wifes old Ford Expedition, but the Toyota had MUCH less shop/repair time. When she grew tired of the size/poor fuel efficiency - there was no contest (even after looking at Consumer Reports/ratings and driving all competitors).

The other Toyotas we had were sold because we wanted to get something else or stolen - but none had ANY major mechanical problems, or anything even close to the work required on the Ford we just sold (and it ws purchased new and maintained by the dealer).

Just my experience....Bruce in Redding, CA


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

because i drove my tacoma 50 miles at 70 mph with no oil in the motor (obviously an accident) and it still runs......


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## rafdog (Jun 16, 2006)

tiSS'er said:


> "I think one of the real problems with vehicles today, even Toyota and Honda is that they are desinged to be disposable. Seems like every 3 years people are turning in their cars for a new one. If someone keeps a car for 5 years it is a miracle."
> 
> Not sure this is a vehicle issue...most people I know turn over cars due to want, not need...I have a 98 maxima and some friends can't believe I have not purchased a new ride...but no payments ( on an investment??) is hard to beat...plus I enjoy working on the few things I can...now a new bike(s)...always a need
> 
> EDIT-I clearly have not figured out how to quote others or use edit!:madman:


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## thebronze (Jan 13, 2004)

Wanted to revive this thread and share some thoughts on my former Toyota Tacoma Prerunner Extra cab. I was dissapointed in the car. It never left me stranded or needed work in 2 years, but it was incredibly uncomfortable and the ride and handling were horrible. There is no way in hell I would have taken that car on a road trip. I am 6' 3" 225 and it just simply didnt fit. The 2005 fit much better, but my Chevy fits way better then either one. And the MPG are almost exact. I would buy another Toyota, but not another Tacoma. I like the Tundras a lot better but I think they are both a bit overpriced.

One of the most interesting things I found about my Toyota was that it was not built in the USA, it was assembled in USA from 98% foreign parts. I remember peeling that sticker off the window stating the origin of the parts, and thinking why cant American auto makers beat a company who pays 2 different factories (and shipping costs between them) to build a car when they only pay one and even export some Labor into Mexico to save money?


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

thebronze said:


> Wanted to revive this thread and share some thoughts on my former Toyota Tacoma Prerunner Extra cab. I was dissapointed in the car. It never left me stranded or needed work in 2 years, but it was incredibly uncomfortable and the ride and handling were horrible. There is no way in hell I would have taken that car on a road trip. I am 6' 3" 225 and it just simply didnt fit. The 2005 fit much better, but my Chevy fits way better then either one. And the MPG are almost exact. I would buy another Toyota, but not another Tacoma. I like the Tundras a lot better but I think they are both a bit overpriced.
> 
> One of the most interesting things I found about my Toyota was that it was not built in the USA, it was assembled in USA from 98% foreign parts. I remember peeling that sticker off the window stating the origin of the parts, and thinking why cant American auto makers beat a company who pays 2 different factories (and shipping costs between them) to build a car when they only pay one and even export some Labor into Mexico to save money?


I'm 6'5" 240~ish and loved my '02 Tacoma Xtra cab when I had it, it fit me fine. I drove it for 2 years before making my Land Cruiser my daily driver. Toyota's *may* be overpriced on the front end, but compare resale values on the tail end..... I bought my Taco with 5300 miles on it in mid 2003 and sold it in mid 2005 with 32K for $500 less than I paid for it. No doubt in my mind that I would not have been able to do that with a domestic rig. I will probably never own a Non-Toyota vehicle ever again.... unless I strike it rich and can scoop up a Ferrari.


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## thebronze (Jan 13, 2004)

Very true, in their defense, when I traded it in I made money on it. Theres no doubt they make the most reliable car, I just didnt find it to be the most comfortable car. I bet a Tundra is a whole different truck. I was mainly dissapointed that a $19K tacoma rode and drove exactly like a $12k Ford Ranger.


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

thebronze said:


> Very true, in their defense, when I traded it in I made money on it. Theres no doubt they make the most reliable car, I just didnt find it to be the most comfortable car. I bet a Tundra is a whole different truck. I was mainly dissapointed that a $19K tacoma rode and drove exactly like a $12k Ford Ranger.


I've always owned 4x4's and they all will beat you up. The Taco was the only "mini truck" that I've owned. So I really have no frame of reference to compare it to a Ranger or Colorado or Dakota. My Tacoma was a Caddillac compared to my current daily driver.


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## Lake (Dec 5, 2006)

*Your post reads like an anti-union propaganda campaign*



Dave'sNotHere said:


> I bought my current ride brand new in '94, Toyota Pick-Up. Made in Japan. Before I put my money down I asked to see the original Jap paperwork to make sure I wasn't putting money in the pocket of an American Auto Worker. They screwed our family in '73 by building a turd they called a Malibu Classic. My entire extended family has sworn off American cars ever since. We remember.


So where do you think your young-uns are going to work in 20 years after we lose our manufacturing economy? VP of Asian sales somewhere? Better study hard.


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

Lake said:


> So where do you think your young-uns are going to work in 20 years after we lose our manufacturing economy? VP of Asian sales somewhere? Better study hard.


If the UAW doesn't start making serious concessions on the healthcare and pension fronts, it's not going to take 20 yrs for the Big 3 to sink, IMO.


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## Lake (Dec 5, 2006)

*And the kids will be lucky to get a "career" at Radio Shack*

..managing the afternoon shift, selling blister packed Chinese wares.


tha1000 said:


> If the UAW doesn't start making serious concessions on the healthcare and pension fronts, it's not going to take 20 yrs for the Big 3 to sink, IMO.


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## mgibbons19 (Jun 27, 2005)

I have had 3.5 toyotas.

a 78 Corolla that I beat to hell and replaced the drivetrain (myself). loved thta car

an 87 Celica GT which was fast and fun and red. Drove that from 47k to 170k. turned it in because it was burning oil, and the windshield seal had rusted out. sad to see tht one go.

a 97 Corolla, picked up off lease with only 12k on it. still goes great, front end makes a little noise, but at 70k, I expect another 100k out of it.

<<Edit I forgot the .5>> My family also owned a 78 Celica at the same time I had the Corolla.

Every Toyota I have owned has provided outstanding value per dollar.

I had a Trooper for 5 or 6 years, which was a lot of fun, but it did have several mechanical issues.

Replaced that with an old Durango which now has 140k on it. I really like the Durango, but if one of those Land Cruisers came my way, I would trade in a heartbeat.


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

Lake said:


> ..managing the afternoon shift, selling blister packed Chinese wares.


Can't say that I 100% agree with you... I have 100's of friends and acquaintences that are gainfully employed and don't work for GM/Ford. There are plenty of jobs... it's only the jobs where you can make 75K/yr without a college education, get promoted based solely on senoirity, have lifetime health benes and a defined pension program, while manufacturing an inferior product that are in jeopardy.


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## Lake (Dec 5, 2006)

*There is a large electronics industry in Detroit ...*

...that is a function of the automobile industry there. As you celebrate the demise of America's manufacturers, the high-value-added jobs are going to places like Japan, China, and India. Those countries leaders are not dumb--they are targeting our businesses.

Further, I would like to see some citation that UAW workers get $75,000/year on average. I think that that is *an anti-union, misinformation talking point*. The GM workers in my home town hired since the early 1980s have been paid wages way below that.



tha1000 said:


> Can't say that I 100% agree with you... I have 100's of friends and acquaintences that are gainfully employed and don't work for GM/Ford. There are plenty of jobs... it's only the jobs where you can make 75K/yr without a college education, get promoted based solely on senoirity, have lifetime health benes and a defined pension program, while manufacturing an inferior product that are in jeopardy.


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## rafdog (Jun 16, 2006)

I remember reading Future Shock in 80s about how our economy would shift from a manufacturing to service economy....seems that is the path we are on and it aint changing anytime soon...while it is a problematic and surprising to see Ford, etc taking it on the chin...it is somewhat inevitable IMO. I tend to agree that unions have seriously hampered cars and airline industries for example...diminishing returns at this point. I try to buy u.s. products but not at expense of what I think is best value for buck...I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.


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## Lake (Dec 5, 2006)

*Hewlitt Packard sends their software development to India*

Call centers are being outsourced. We are being left with a post-industrial, post-information-age economy with scant opportunity. I am doing well because I took invested during the stock market run up in the 1990s. It's the young people I worry for.


rafdog said:


> I remember reading Future Shock in 80s about how our economy would shift from a manufacturing to service economy


 I vote with my dollars and spend them where they will do the most good and don't patronize businesses that have a deleterious effect on America. That's why I don't patronize Wal*Mart, crack dealers, or Toyota.


rafdog said:


> I try to buy u.s. products but not at expense of what I think is best value for buck...I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.


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## Asbury (Oct 26, 2006)

One thing to notice is there is a difference between a recall and a campaign. The majority of issues that have been presented on this forum, regarding problems w/ Toyotas, are campaigns. A recall is a repair mandated by the federal government to correct a safety issue, a campaign is voluntary by the manufacturer (may or may not be safety related). Toyota has had many campaigns, but very few recalls. Granted, some of Toyota's "campaigns" probably would have been recalls, but they don't usually fight the government the way Detroit does. I think this is one of the things that makes Toyota so strong, it's customer support. As for quality, Toyota's quality is rooted in their design, not manufacturing process. If you have ever worked on a Toyota/Lexus vs. a GM product, you know what I'm talking about (e.g. Toyota uses fewer parts for the same result as compared to GM).


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## eman2 (May 3, 2004)

*Its all perception anymore.*

The perception of quality from Japanese automakers is just that perception. I will concede that the american automakers of the 80's were not up to spec, but the field is pretty darn level today. Heck all automakers cars are pretty high quality wise.

Toyotas and Hondas are not made in the USA they are just assembled here of mastly Foreign parts. Many of the US automakers have plants in Mexico and Canada so they can compete in the market -- Japan plays with their currency so they can bring parts and cars over for cheaper -- the US automakers have to do somthing to allow them to stay competative.

I just got myself a Saturn Aura XR -- sweet car. Better than any honda or toy in my opinion.

An interesting bumper sticker:

Still Have a Job? Keep buying foreign!


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## goldenraptor (Aug 25, 2006)

The thing is that the general quality of a bad Toyota vs. a good Ford still points to the fact the Toyota is better. You can expect 300, 400k miles out of Toyotas... and that is on the average ones.


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## martynda (Aug 7, 2004)

Reliability, comfort

1993 Corolla - totaled in 1999 by a drunk driver with 140k on it an not a single repair.
My 1999 Camry - 120k and still drives like a dream with no repairs (one of the bulbs in the console went out :madman: ). Extremely comfortable an silent on the highway
Dad's 2005 Camry - comfortable, silent, high quality interior


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## Lake (Dec 5, 2006)

*You can expect 300, 400k miles out of Toyotas. Really???*

That's absurd. There's always the ancedote of a long lived Toyota, but I am sure that 90% of them go to the crusher with less than 200,000 miles on them. Any car of any make gets aging of the tie rod ends and suspension parts and becomes "not worth fixing" when the car's resale value is around $1000.


goldenraptor said:


> The thing is that the general quality of a bad Toyota vs. a good Ford still points to the fact the Toyota is better. You can expect 300, 400k miles out of Toyotas... and that is on the average ones.


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## goldenraptor (Aug 25, 2006)

This woman I live next to, her name is Kelly, she tells me how ever since she became a mechanic, she understands the quality of good cars. Whenever Toyota's really started to get popular, she noticed that most of them would have been around 430k miles if the owners had done regular maintenance, which she says was tire pressure, oil changes every 3000 miles, etc. She says the design of Honda's and Toyota's is incredible, and that I should get one when I get older because it'll last me a ****load.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

goldenraptor said:


> The thing is that the general quality of a bad Toyota vs. a good Ford still points to the fact the Toyota is better. You can expect 300, 400k miles out of Toyotas... and that is on the average ones.


I worked as a service cordinator in a repair shop for 4 years and saw a fair amount of domestic and imports of every kind. One of my tasks was to write the milage down on every vehicle that entered the shop. There were a few freak-milage vehicles that I remember working on. One was a Ford Crown Vic with 423,xxx that had a broken odometer - which the owner claimed  , another was a Chevy 1500 gas engined truck with 350,xxx miles, and a Ford Aerostar with 334,xxx miles. To generally state that a certain brand name will run for X amount of miles is pure ignorance. It depends on the owner more then engineering. Im not chosing sides but I did see more higher milage domestics then I did see imports. Higher milage meaning 300,000+ miles.


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## goldenraptor (Aug 25, 2006)

AC/BC said:


> I worked as a service cordinator in a repair shop for 4 years and saw a fair amount of domestic and imports of every kind. One of my tasks was to write the milage down on every vehicle that entered the shop. There were a few freak-milage vehicles that I remember working on. One was a Ford Crown Vic with 423,xxx that had a broken odometer - which the owner claimed  , another was a Chevy 1500 gas engined truck with 350,xxx miles, and a Ford Aerostar with 334,xxx miles. To generally state that a certain brand name will run for X amount of miles is pure ignorance. It depends on the owner more then engineering. Im not chosing sides but I did see more higher milage domestics then I did see imports. Higher milage meaning 300,000+ miles.


Wow, you just completely proved me wrong in everything... What I'm going at is my dad's Ford whatever (it was a small car) stopped working first at 34k miles. My dad is one of those fuel-efficient drivers that never goes above 3500 RPM in any car, and gets the oil changed out every 2500 miles.

On the other hand, our Honda has been going for about 210k miles strong without a single hitch. Even the air-conditioning works


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

Lake said:


> ...that is a function of the automobile industry there. As you celebrate the demise of America's manufacturers, the high-value-added jobs are going to places like Japan, China, and India. Those countries leaders are not dumb--they are targeting our businesses.
> 
> Further, I would like to see some citation that UAW workers get $75,000/year on average. I think that that is *an anti-union, misinformation talking point*. The GM workers in my home town hired since the early 1980s have been paid wages way below that.


I'm neither pro nor anti union (but have no doubt which side of the line you fall on). I trade debt on GM and Ford on a daily basis and I read every piece of analysis on the companies that comes accross my desk. I was wrong. In 2005, the average american auto line worker made $26/hour ($60,000 per year), the benefits package pushed the average to $65 per hour... All for jobs that could be outsourced for $8-10 per hour. This is the reason why GM and Ford are losing money. The UAW fails to realize that they don't hold the cards... they have a sweet deal, but if Ford/GM go under, their skill set merits $8-10 an hour on the open market... they are s***ting in their mess kits. They will have to make MAJOR concessions at some point in the future.

You do understand the term "Average" though, correct? Of course the guys that *just got hired *from your town are going to make less than that.... and the guys that have been there forever are going to make more than that.... you add the numbers together and divide.

On the "actual quality" vs "perceived quality" argument, my wife drives a 2002 Ford SUV that we got a great deal on from her parents and at 50,000 miles it has more electrical problems than my 20 year old Toyota. Her power windows work when they want to, the motor in the sunroof has been replaced, and various other nit picky bs items have gone to crap (like the CD player on our 10 hour road trip this past weekend that decided it didn't want to eject any of the cd's). This vehicle was bought new and my FIL is anal retentive about maintenece. My Toyota's power windows still work great after it has been out of warranty for 16 years! The road noise in her Ford is damn near deafening. My 20 year old, solid front axel, leaf sprung, 4wd has a far quieter ride than her 3 year old, 4 wheel ifs, modern "Made in America" vehicle. There is definitely a difference in fit and finish quality, and honestly, in mechanical durability. Look at any news footage from any 3rd world nation, and Toyota's will out number any other make of vehicle 10:1.


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

*Have to agree . . .*



Julianna said:


> > PS A poorly built European vehicle is superior to the best vehicle made in the USA! HAHAHA, Well, OK, western European! ;D


I do have to agree. I have owned numerous VW's and a BMW, and the overall build quality, fit an finish of thes cars has been far superior to any American made product. Sad, but true in my experience.

I doubt I would ever own a Toyota--too boring.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

goldenraptor said:


> This woman I live next to, her name is Kelly, she tells me how ever since she became a mechanic, she understands the quality of good cars. Whenever Toyota's really started to get popular, she noticed that most of them would have been around 430k miles if the owners had done regular maintenance, which she says was tire pressure, oil changes every 3000 miles, etc. She says the design of Honda's and Toyota's is incredible, and that I should get one when I get older because it'll last me a ****load.


I worked in a general mechanic shop for 4 years and work on about 60% domestic, 40% import and never saw a Toyota with more then 280K on the odometer. Just a little background I was a bay coordinator and one of my tasks was to write down milage of each vehicle that entered the shop. 430K is an overzealous claim. The one car that I worked on that really stuck in my mind (the one with the most milage i'd ever seen) was a Crown Vic with 400K+ which the owner said the odometer broke 5 years ago. It was an ex-cop car/ex taxi car. I think there's a reason they use the Crown Vic as a fleet vehicle and its not because of its size.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

AC/BC said:


> I worked in a general mechanic shop for 4 years and work on about 60% domestic, 40% import and never saw a Toyota with more then 280K on the odometer. Just a little background I was a bay coordinator and one of my tasks was to write down milage of each vehicle that entered the shop. 430K is an overzealous claim. The one car that I worked on that really stuck in my mind (the one with the most milage i'd ever seen) was a Crown Vic with 400K+ which the owner said the odometer broke 5 years ago. It was an ex-cop car/ex taxi car. I think there's a reason they use the Crown Vic as a fleet vehicle and its not because of its size.


I got 385k out of a 90' 4 Runner V6. 290k out of a 90' 4 banger pickup. Hard driving too.


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## tha1000 (Aug 16, 2006)

AC/BC said:


> I worked in a general mechanic shop for 4 years and work on about 60% domestic, 40% import and never saw a Toyota with more then 280K on the odometer. Just a little background I was a bay coordinator and one of my tasks was to write down milage of each vehicle that entered the shop. 430K is an overzealous claim. The one car that I worked on that really stuck in my mind (the one with the most milage i'd ever seen) was a Crown Vic with 400K+ which the owner said the odometer broke 5 years ago. It was an ex-cop car/ex taxi car. I think there's a reason they use the Crown Vic as a fleet vehicle and its not because of its size.


I'm the only guy I know with an older Land Cruiser under 250k... All of my buddies are pushing 300k. A guy at my gym has 380k on his and has only replaced the clutch... and that was due to letting his 15yr old son drive it.


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## kvojr (Apr 14, 2005)

I got a Corolla because it was the cheapest deal I could get at the time and for the gas milage. I'm tired of hearing how the build quality is so great on Toyotas and Hondas, it is purely myth. My Corrola is only a year old and the AC blower moter stopped working on me in the middle of the summer and I have rattles everywhere. The console door is loose and doesn't close correctly either. I do get great gas milage though. I also have an 05 Honda Odyssey and the build quality is nothing special there either. The sunglasses holder on the ceiling won't stay closed, one of the covers for the oer outlets won't stay closed and the top glove box likes to fly open all by itself. First two Japanese cars that I have ever owned and they haven't convinced me at all that they are superior to any American cars.


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## mwcet8k (Jun 17, 2004)

I used to be Pro-American when it came to cars. After having owned two Chevy full size trucks, I bought a new Toyota Tacoma a little over a year ago. The first Chevy had 6,000 miles on it when I bought it; the second I bought new. Both of the Chevrolets were massive pieces of junk. Squeaked and rattled their way down the road, and nearly everything that could go wrong on both of them did - engines, transmissions, electrical systems, air conditioning, EVERYTHING.

The Toyota is still somewhat new, so it's early for me to make a final verdict. No problems with it yet though. And the fit and finish of the Toyota is absolutely superior to either of the Chevrolets. Simple things like the way the A/C dials feel when I turn them - they feel very solid and crisp on the Toyota; they felt cheap and flimsy on the Chevrolets (and broke twice on one of them). The doors open and close with a nice tight thud on the Toyota; the doors (all of them) on the Chevrolets sounded like they had loose parts inside that rattled every time they were shut. Even the quality of the plastic used in the interior of the Taco is better.

My dad bought one of the new '07 Chevy Tahoes back in April and he's taken it back for warranty work three times so far (all unrelated problems). He's about to take it back a fourth time because it recently started making a strange noise when he puts it in reverse. His experience has only confirmed that I made the right decision by going with Toyota (or at least any non GM vehicle).


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Julianna said:


> > Interesting topic; this shall be our conversation at dinner shortly... Well, probably during post-dinner drinks; we adore laughter at that time.
> >
> > TOODLES!
> >
> > ...


Pintos, Vegas, Gremlins, Pacers, even Hyundais giggle when they see any of these:

Fiat
Renault
Yugo

Definitely among the worst automobiles to ever pollute our air space.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah, but...*



jeffj said:


> Pintos, Vegas, Gremlins, Pacers, even Hyundais giggle when they see any of these:
> 
> Fiat
> Renault
> ...


... newer Fiats in Europe are pretty dang good these days I hear.

BTW, my '96 VW GTi just tuned over to 200k miles. Engine still feels nice and tight. I think I have a tie rod or strut bearing getting sloppy, tho. It is also going to need brakes soon. I will be the second set I put on the car since I bought it with 40k miles on it.

Compare that to my MoInLaw's '96 Mercury Tracer. The thing was falling apart at 60k miles, and blew the engine at 110k. She kept up on all the maintenance, too.


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## L4NE4 (Apr 24, 2007)

*Why did I buy a Toyota?*

I didn't I got one for free. An 87 4runner that was so rusty i could see the road through floor in the back. I then sold that and got an 88 4runner because i loved it so much. I got a Toyota because it gets 13-15mpg and rattles everywhere. I got my 4runner because the v6 was so fast that i could beat any ricer from a stoplight. I got my 4runner because it is so luxurious and comfortable.

I freakin got my Toyota because it freakin rocks and i can fit 31x10.50 tires (you can actually fit bigger but i wouldnt reccomend it) without any lift and i can fit 4bikes and 4people. Thats why I got a toyota.

:thumbsup:


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

My first car was a Paseo that costed me 150 bucks and ran 30 miles to the gallon. Awesome. Who cares that it took 12 seconds to get to 60... and that 90 was downright dangerous? Did I say 90? I meant the speed limit if it got wet out... Who would've thought that less than 1/32 of tread was unsafe?










Still drove home... Broke one of the v-belts and lost power steering. I think the trans pan might've unseated.

It had it's share of problems before the little incident... It burned oil... It coughed smoke out the exhaust... Dash was cracked. Trunk only opened from the inside. Doors... didn't quite close right, neither did the hood. Clearcoat was all peeling, some rust bubbles started forming. Had an allignment issue and bad FL wheel bearing. Trans was shaky. But at 200k. I didn't expect much. Got my money back from selling it. Haha.

Top Gear - Killing a Toyota Pickup




That's part 1 of 3. Other parts come up in the sidebar. Enjoy.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Godzilla said:


> 1. Many Toyotas are built in Ohio - more jobs for US workers
> 
> 2. Many "Good Ol' American" companies, like Dodge, have their uninspired shite assembled in Mexico - need I say more?


Many Toyotas are built in Mexico too... So are Nissans, VDubs, and others.

You figure cars built in Mexico are bad?
We happen to complain about cars built in Brazil.

As with bikes, it relates more to the pricepoint of the car than where the car is made.


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## Syndrome (Sep 2, 2007)

Well, if you want to talk about miles then we can do that. We can talk about the 'million mile club' of the Dodge Cummins. Or we can talk about that Saab that got over 1,000,000 miles on it without having to fix it. But at the same time we can talk about my brothers Saab which has been practically completely rebuilt. Or I can mention my word van, Plymouth Voyager with over 250k miles on it, and it still runs good, yeah, it might have taken a few trannys to get there, but when do you expect when its carrying over 1000 pounds of tools every where it goes? 
I have a Toyota because they OWN! My Matrix gets great milage(35+) hasn't given me problems(Had it 1.5 years and put over 60,000 miles on it) hauls 4 guys comfortably, and I'm sure that I can pack more luggage(road trip anyone?) in it than most of you guys can in your small trucks! I also take it off road with my bikes on the back of it, and hit up the local trails, Yeah, it might not be able to climb cliffs, but it can get me to the places I need to go.


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## phillyGTA (Jul 14, 2005)

Simple , when you watch the evening news , you will notice ALL the fighting truck in third world with AAA guns are mounted on Toyotas , that means if you life depends on it , better get a toyota ! 

I had a little Corolla GTA back in the days , drove it for over 300 k with all original parts , except brakes and rotors , even the light bubs are OEM when I sold it and all of them still worked after a decade in the car ! 

That thing was built like a tank without the gun turrets:thumbsup:


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## jtotheostotheh (Oct 12, 2007)

Why not? Test drove it, liked it.


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## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

AC/BC said:


> I worked in a general mechanic shop for 4 years and work on about 60% domestic, 40% import and never saw a Toyota with more then 280K on the odometer. Just a little background I was a bay coordinator and one of my tasks was to write down milage of each vehicle that entered the shop. 430K is an overzealous claim. The one car that I worked on that really stuck in my mind (the one with the most milage i'd ever seen) was a Crown Vic with 400K+ which the owner said the odometer broke 5 years ago. It was an ex-cop car/ex taxi car. I think there's a reason they use the Crown Vic as a fleet vehicle and its not because of its size.


Not really sure what your point is here - just because YOU never saw a Toyota with more than 280k on it means that they don't exist? Don't think so. Toyota has (again) one of the highest "would buy again" ratings from actual owners. That speaks volumes. If properly maintained they will generally run problem free for many, many miles - that's why people buy them. No, they are not perfect, but they are far better than "average".

As for what is "average" I can't believe the number of people that regularly have repair bills in the several hundred dollar range and think that that's ok - it's like we are conditioned to accept poorly designed, low quality vehicles. If you do your regular maintenance, repair bills should be few and far between. The funniest comment I ever heard was from a guy that had a 90's Ford Taurus who said he would have been far better off financially had he simply given the car away once the 3 year warranty was up. And Ford sold millions of these junkers!!!!


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Toyota owners are the most disillusioned buyers in every class.


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## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

AC/BC said:


> Toyota owners are the most disillusioned buyers in every class.


...because you say it, it must be true!!! Wait until JD Power hears about this.. oh, check out this info from Consumer Reports (which actually questioned the reliability of newer Toyotas)

_Of the 39 "Most Reliable" models, 34 are Asian -- 17 are from Toyota (including Lexus and Scion); seven are from Honda (including Acura); three each from Hyundai and Nissan (including Infiniti); 2 are from Subaru; and one each from Mitsubishi and Mazda.

The Pontiac Solstice has the worst new-car prediction score in the 2007 survey. _

Sounds like Toyota owners have a reason to be disillusioned - their brand didn't get all 39!!!

BTW - what brand do you drive?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Mmmmm... kay*



AC/BC said:


> Toyota owners are the most disillusioned buyers in every class.


... even more than Yugo?

That is very nice that you say that. Can you tell us the source of this 'info'? I mean really, Links, magazines, articles, newspaper what? Do you have ANYTHING at all? For the love of God, please let us in on this info!!

Tell us, or clam up.

Seriously. You keep saying stuff about how bad Toyota is, but I have yet to see any info to back that up, from your or out on the internets. Is Toyota flying around in black helicopters erasing peoples minds? Wait! That's your theory, isn't it? I KNEW it!

Personally, I have clocked many thousands of miles in Toyotas. Solid cars. I wouldn't buy one because I don't particularly care for the way they feel, but that is me. I'll take a less reliable VW because I prefer the way they handle and feel.

Has it ever occurred to you that the most recall issue boils down to that they are much more pro-active in customer service?

Heck, Ford doesn't do a recall until the NTSB steps in. Basically, the gubmint has to put a gun to their heads before they do anything. For your high mileage truck, I'll give you the F550 Diesel I drive for work with 40k on the odo that has been in the shop already for a new tranny and broken sway bar brackets, and a bunch of other little annoying problems.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

**crickets**



pimpbot said:


> ... even more than Yugo?
> 
> That is very nice that you say that. Can you tell us the source of this 'info'? I mean really, Links, magazines, articles, newspaper what? Do you have ANYTHING at all? For the love of God, please let us in on this info!!
> 
> ...


That's what I thought.


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## jred321 (Aug 12, 2007)

i love the toyota brand but wouldn't buy any of their current offerings, they're too boring for me. great A to B cars though. my gf had a 95 corolla that she bought used for like $500 that was in ok shape with 150k on it. over 2 years she got to around 192k with pretty much no maintenance, barely changing the oil. it had a leaky valve cover gasket and she figured that since she had to add oil from that changing the oil wasn't necessary. i think it got done twice in the 2 years she owned it. her indicator for adding oil was when the oil pressure light came on. she even forgot to put the oil filler cap on and drove it for an hour before realizing. eventually it developed a knock (rod knock possibly) and it wasn't worth it to fix it. it basically lasted through 42k of abuse after being 10 years old. 

after that she bought her first new car, a toyota yaris 4 door. awesome A to B car, plenty of room, great gas mileage, etc... if im ever in the market for a strictly A to B car it's either going to be a honda or a toyota. as of now i like my cars fun so neither are on the radar but one day i'm sure that'll change


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Lordy, is this thread still alive?*

Well, when it started I had just NOT purchased a Toyota. Got a Subaru Legacy Outback after looking closely at a Toyota Highlander. Seems like the kind of vehicle that would run forever but that you wish would die and go away. Is it a better vehicle than the Outback? Good chance but I still wouldn't buy it.

Since than I bought my wife a Mini Cooper. Are there better Toyota's in that class? Yeah, I suppose the Yaris is but that is not exactly what we want to be seen in.

Toyota's are great, no question about that, but I'm just not a Toyota kind of person. Nothing wrong with doing the smart thing and buying one but I haven't gotten this far by always doing the smart thing.


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## The Weasel (Dec 22, 2003)

Rev Bubba said:


> Well, when it started I had just NOT purchased a Toyota. Got a Subaru Legacy Outback after looking closely at a Toyota Highlander.


Just a side note, not that important. Did you know Toyota owns a 45% share in Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries)? GM sold them their (or a-I am not sure which) 20% share back in October 2005. We had just purchased our Legacy Wagon earlier that spring. I liked that in some way we were still somewhat supporting a partially US owned company, where the car was manufactored in Indiana from a large percentage of US made parts. And most importantly we were getting a reliable car that we didn't think was boring.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*55% US Content*

I think that actually makes the Legacy Outback a US vehicle in the eyes of the law. Interesting in some way, I suppose.

Years ago I drove a VW Golf. A couple people I worked with had a Chevy and a Ford. The only one of the three actually built in the US at the time was the Golf. I think the Chevy was built in Canada and the Ford in Mexico.


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## Aktion (Mar 19, 2007)

I am on my 3rd Toyota 4X4 truck (83, 87, 94). In between the 87 and the 94 I had a Ford F150 and although I didn't hate my Ford, I was happy to get back to a Toyota. The Ford lost value at an alarming rate.

-Reliability

-Gas mileage

-Ease of maintenance


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

My dad was a chrysler man from back in the '30's, but before he passed he switched and bought the camry wagon, His Dodge Mini van kept blowing power windows and air conditioners. 

Toyota's are appliances, they are to the most very bland dependable cars. the exception was the second generation MR2 . Now for me, the only interesting toyota is th CJ Cruiser, the rest just look like a toyota (bland).

I bought a new MR2 in 92 sold it in 2005 after 12 yrs. still had the original clutch! engine still ran strong, many bmw's will attest to that. I currently own a BMW, so what's the big deal about these cars? I will probably go for a 08 or 09 Matrix, or maybe a 4 runner (used) to carry my bikes.

later
wn


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## phillyGTA (Jul 14, 2005)

*Speaking of MR2*

Drove a 86 MR2 for years , will buy another one without blink an eye only if Toyota will bring it back, one of the BEST handling sport car in any era , period !

Went to the track with that thing , 7 K red line DOHC , 99% stock , blew all kinds of car out of the water which cost 5 times more then the little MR2.

Nothing can keep up with the little MR2 in corners , yes , they may pass me on the straigh away , but once into a turn , that's when you know it is a great sport car.

Oh .. I miss my MR 2 even after all these years :thumbsup:


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

The Weasel said:


> Just a side note, not that important. Did you know Toyota owns a 45% share in Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries)?


Where did you get that number from?

I read it is closer to 8.75%.

Maybe that's why Subaru ruined the new WRX, which now looks like a Corolla.


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

nagatahawk said:


> Toyota's are appliances, they are to the most very bland dependable cars. the exception was the second generation MR2 .


What about the 2000GT or the AWD Turbo Celicas?












nagatahawk said:


> Now for me, the only interesting toyota is th CJ Cruiser, the rest just look like a toyota (bland).


A CJ is a Jeep, an FJ is a Toyota.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

ok fj the toyota wannabe jeep. yuk yuk! I still would rather have the fj over the jeep.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

How true, I drove one, and because of that I bought the next generation of which I was slightly dissappointed with the gear box, it needed a shif kit, but it has very good mid range power with the 2.2 engine. after I lowered it 1" with springs and adjustable shocks, 16" rubber, it stuck pretty good in the corners. even so the OG Mr 2 was lighter and thus had a better ballance feel to it. you would think that Toyota would improve their cars, i guess they improve the marketability of the car rather than refine the car. Is bigger necessarily better?


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## Carbon Ken (Mar 31, 2005)

The Weasel said:


> Just a side note, not that important. Did you know Toyota owns a 45% share in Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries)? GM sold them their (or a-I am not sure which) 20% share back in October 2005. We had just purchased our Legacy Wagon earlier that spring. I liked that in some way we were still somewhat supporting a partially US owned company, where the car was manufactored in Indiana from a large percentage of US made parts. And most importantly we were getting a reliable car that we didn't think was boring.


45%? Are you sure about that?

Either way, I understand that the current Camry is being built at the same plant as the Legacy in a Subaru plant.


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## jred321 (Aug 12, 2007)

wikipedia knows all

Toyota also owns majority stakes in Daihatsu and Hino, and 8.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries, which manufactures Subaru vehicles

i think the larger stake ownership is something toyota is rumored to be considering but there are laws in japan about how much of a competitor one company can own or something that they have to tackle before being able to increase their stake

also it is true that the subaru plant in indiana produces legacys and camrys

With General Motors divesting from FHI, new minority shareholder Toyota Motor Corporation plans to produce 30,000 to 40,000 Camrys per year at the plant starting in 2007 to meet excess demand currently satisfied by imports from Japan


Automobiles produced at SIA
Current
Subaru Legacy 
Subaru Outback 
Subaru B9 Tribeca (2006-present) 
Toyota Camry


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## power-san (Aug 29, 2007)

Godzilla said:


> I'm assuming that you meant to ask - "why did you buy a Toyota instead of one of Detroit's offerings?"
> 
> First, I no longer drive a Toyota, not for any reason in particular, just because - but I still feel I may be qualified to give you the answer you're looking for.
> 
> 1. Many Toyotas are built in Ohio - more jobs for US workers


Ohio? There are the following plants:
TMMI (IN)
TMMTX (TX)
NUMMI (CA)
TMMBC (Baja)
TABA (Long Beach, CA)
TMMK (KY)
TMMMS (MS, soon to be)
TMMC (Cambridge, ON)
TMMC 2 (Woodstock, ON)

There are some random engine plants as well..

I use to work for them..

TONS and TONS of Americans make a living off Toyota, specially all the suppliers in the mid-west.

Toyota cars are UGLY though, no doubt about that..


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## gtluke (Aug 15, 2007)

rockhound said:


> What about the 2000GT or the AWD Turbo Celicas?
> 
> A CJ is a Jeep, an FJ is a Toyota.


how long ago was the 2000gt? and the awd celica is only good on paper. it has a glass transmission and the whole car is just plagued with problems, namely the camry motor they used in a "sports car"

today the most sporty car they have for sale is on the echo platform with a camry motor.

seriously, they don't sell anything even remotely interesting unless you are impressed by a complete failure of design prius (corolla gets 43mpg, prius gets 45, something is seriously wrong with that. i bet if you put the low rolling resistance tires on the corolla it would get 45mpg)

look how bad toyota's influence made the new subaru cars. subaru used to make really neat cars, they were never grouped in with other japanese auto makers. now their cars are getting more and more boring. i don't think the new impreza can look more like a mazda3 if it tried. ugh

now consumer reports is tearing a new one on toyota. they put the new camry on the do not buy list, as well as the new tundra for snapping camshafts, and breaking off ball joints.

the late 80's early 90's camry is the best camry and car toyota ever built. those cars are awesome (except for any part of the car that involves using your key, or if you live in a place where cars get stolen. then don't buy one)

i really think toyota is off its mark. they used to make some great and interesting cars. the AE86 was a cool car, the all-trac was at least cool in concept, the mister 2's were interesting, the supras were cool but died because of their outrageous price tag.

the is300 lexus is the only thing remotely cool they make anymore, and i'm sure they'll kill that off eventually too.

/rant off
-luke-


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

AC/BC said:


> Toyota owners are the most disillusioned buyers in every class.


And your qualified to make that statement because?


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## cammccarty (Jul 20, 2007)

I bought a 2006 4runner SR5 after working in the sahara desert in Libya,Africa. I saw toyotas 20 years old still running strong. Obviously replacing parts and maintanance. The company I worked with brought in brand new FORD F-350's. They were desert outfitted, heavy duty suspension, internal roll cages, looked like they did steroids for a while. We wrecked these fords in months. I mean wrecked beyond repair. The toyotas could handle being jumped off sand dunes all the time.
All that said Toyotas warranty sucks. I had rust after a few months. What a f**ckin headache trying to get it fixed.The local dealer wasn't any help mostly because I didn't buy it from that location. I just gave up and going to let it rat out. Also, I have 92,000km's in 20 months and NO problems. Resale is also very good.


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## Shwaa (Jan 13, 2004)

1994 Toyota p/u 4cyl. Bought it brand new, still have it today. 205k miles on it and going strong. I guess I got it the year before they came out with the "Tacoma" and the reliability fell slightly (so I hear)
My friend has an 06 Tacoma 4x4 and it has been nothing but trouble for him, mostly electrical stuff.

I guess you never know.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

cammccarty said:


> I bought a 2006 4runner SR5 after working in the sahara desert in Libya,Africa.


Same experience with our Company in Sudan and Arabia... Toyotas were the ones that were holding up in those conditions.

And that was as recent as 2002-2003.

I wasn't there, but so far the comments from people were there say the same.


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## birmy (Jan 14, 2005)

Dont forget about the MKIV Toyota Supra Turbo. Sold in the US for model years 1993.5 through 1998.


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## mrsalty (Feb 7, 2006)

*this thread is almost as bad as the kool aid drinkers over on the 29er forum.*

yes, it is cool when year old threads make a comeback, so I will take that as a sign.

owned an 88 F250, with over 200K on it.
by the end (of the 3+ years I owned it) it cost $2-500 everytime it went to the shop.

I replaced it with a 98 Taco ext cab.
I bought the Toyo thinking it would result in automotive bilss...................
small (headroom, and cabin space) , seats were really uncomfortable, clutch pedal made 
this awful clicking sound (which could be fixed for $300, but would return in about a year............BTW, two friends of mine with 2000 models STILL had this feature) was underpowered with the 3.4L (cannot believe this was the engine in the 4 runners at the time) and just had a very utilitarian feel about it.

traded that in for an 5.4L Extra Cab F150. 
Loved the F150, but it was a death trap (see offset barrier impact test for details) and the engine started to make an awful clicking sound around 96K (likely early piston slap).
traded that in for a 94 Land Cruiser.
I have spent over $5K replacing Headgasket, Radiator, Front end service, W Pump, cleaned FI, H2O pump, valve job, head grind, belts, plugs, wires, Intake and TB cleaning, rear axle service, throttle cable, brakes, etc.
it still has a couple problems that I just live with...............
I will caveat, that I did not pay anywhere near the original 38K MSRP, either, so I am likely still getting the long end of that stick.

my experience, brings me to the point.
IME, both Ford and Toyota both have redeeming and displeasing qualitites about them.
I like/dislike things about both, but neither gives me the nirvana that some Toyota nuthuggers seem to have for their rides.
I don't dispute, that there are owners who don't do jack to their vehicles, and they run forever.
others are anal retentive, and they have all kinds of problems.
really for most, it is a crap shoot.
I do believe that the build quality of Toyo has changed (for the worse) since around 95.
and I know for a fact, that the resale of Toyo's is much greater than Ford.

arguing about either is like arguing which political party is better...........THEY BOTH SUCK.
buy what you like, and be ready to pay for the priveledge of owning.
you can either pay a bundle up front with a new/newer model, or get nickled and dimed to death in the inevitable maintenance that ALL cars require.
or be one of those few who don't do sh!*, and still get long term reliability.
or be the ones that buy a Toyo lemon (which I have met), or the Ford transmission replacement junkie.
people on here talking about the vehicles that needed only oil and tires, are in a minority.
there was a Camry in my family for over a decade that fit that bill.
also realize, many of those high mileage Toyo's are simple, front wheel drive, 4 cylinder cars.
for those that need 4WD, or larger capacity the formula seems a bit different..............ie: way more complex, and prone to more failures.
this is also a reason why I think the newer vehicles are much more problem ridden.
I would NEVER own a Chrysler, GMC, or Chevy.
but I am not going to hang on Mr Toyota's nuts either.

edit: BTW, the BEST vehicle I ever owned was an 82 Civic sedan.


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## Ixnay (Oct 22, 2007)

I bought a Toyota because its frickin' awesome.


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## j944 (Feb 24, 2006)

Is that Steel Lavender? My 4runner is that color and luv it!!


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## Ixnay (Oct 22, 2007)

the paint code is actually 8N1, which is called "Horizon Blue Metallic." I've seen 4runners (and maybe a taco or two) with a very similar but different color - which I'm assuming is probably yours.

I love it too - its rare.


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## j944 (Feb 24, 2006)

Very close


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## eclane78 (Nov 18, 2007)

I have had my 07' Tundra for a couple of months now and it is awesome. Before that I had a 89 GMC Jimmy that I put 229k mi on it, then a 92 Honda Accord I put 206k. I had the jimmy when I turned 16 with 32k miles on it, the accord when i was 20 with 63k. I wanted the Tundra a) because they had just overhauled the thing and it was getting great reviews. b) I have never had a new vehicle c) I wasn't worried about the depreciation of the truck because I am not looking at is as an investment. I will drive it like i did the others, "until the wheels fall off" Why not get something you want and like, whether it be a f150, chevy 1500, tacoma, minicooper, whatever floats your boat. And what's it to ya if everyone doesn't get the same vehicle as you. Personally I don't want the same thing as everyone else. 


I do have a question for any of the new tundra owners. I have seen RECRAC comeout with a bike holder that slides in the channels of the bed, has anyone bought these yet? Opinions? Worth the 100$?? Thank you.


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## huh (Oct 20, 2004)

AC/BC said:


> Not only did they over take Ford in sales, but they also took top honors for most recalls, two years running!
> 
> They're recalling nearly 1 million vehicles worldwide this year on most of there models. Last year they recalled 2.2 million. That comes out to 10% of the total number of cars made by Toyota are recalled annually. The second most recalled manufacture doesn't even come close. Shame. So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


"The safety agency said the fire danger is present regardless of the age of the vehicle, and could even occur while the vehicle is parked and unattended. Several dwelling fires have been attributed to the problem."

Here's why I own a Toyota. Sure beats a Ford that will combust spontaneously.

For Immediate Release
Thursday, February 28, 2008 Contact: Karen Aldana
Telephone: (202) 366-9550

Consumer Advisory: NHTSA Warns Ford, Lincoln and Mercury Owners of Fire Hazards Involving Faulty Cruise Control Switches in Recalled Vehicles That Have Not Been Repaired
Owners of Recalled Vehicles are Urged to Bring Vehicles to Dealers Immediately to Disconnect Faulty Switches
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration today urged owners of certain unrepaired Ford, Lincoln and Mercury SUVs, pickup trucks, vans, and certain passenger cars that contain a safety defect to bring their vehicles to dealer repair shops immediately to have the cruise control switch disconnected. Many dealers will perform this as a "drive through" service so owners do not have to leave their vehicles at the dealership or schedule an appointment in advance.

Failure to have the switch disconnected could lead to a vehicle fire at any time, whether or not the key is in the ignition, and whether or not owners use the cruise control system. The safety agency said the fire danger is present regardless of the age of the vehicle, and could even occur while the vehicle is parked and unattended. Several dwelling fires have been attributed to the problem.

NHTSA said it is issuing the consumer advisory due to concerns that many owners have yet to respond to multiple safety defect recall notifications involving approximately 9.6 million registered vehicles. It said that approximately five million vehicles have been repaired so far, leaving some five million passenger cars and light trucks with the faulty switches intact, and in danger of catching fire.

Ford and NHTSA urged all owners of recalled vehicles that have not been repaired to bring their vehicles to dealers as soon as possible to have the faulty switches disconnected, as an interim safety measure. Ford is in the process of re-notifying owners of the SUVs and other light trucks concerning the importance of having the switch disconnected.

This interim fix will eliminate the risk of fire while affected Ford and Mercury owners are waiting for final repairs from the company, NHTSA said.

The involved vehicles are:

1. 1993 - 2004 F150
2. 1993 - 1999 F250 (gasoline engine)
3. 1993 - 1996 Bronco
4. 1994 - 1996 Econoline
5. 1997 - 2002 Ford Expedition
6. 1998 - 2002 Lincoln Navigator
7. 1998 - 2002 Ford Ranger
8. 1992 - 1998 Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car
9. 1993 - 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
10. 1993 - 1995 Ford Taurus SHO with automatic transmission
11. 1994 - Mercury Capri
12. 1998 - 2001 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer
13. 2001 - 2002 Ford Explorer Sport and Explorer Sport Trac
14. 1992 - 1993 and 1997 - 2003 Ford E-150-350 gasoline or natural gas vehicles
15. 2002 - E-550 gasoline engine vehicles
16. 1996 - 2003 E-450 gasoline or natural gas vehicles
17. 1994 - 2002 F-250 through F-550 super Duty trucks (gasoline engine)
18. 2000 - 2002 Ford Excursion (gasoline engine)
19. 2003 - F250 - F550 Super Duty, Ford Excursion
20. 1995 - 2002 Ford F53 Motor home chassis
21. 2002 - 2003 Lincoln Blackwood

Consumers with questions should contact their local Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer, or call 888-222-2751. Additional information is available at: http://www.ford.com/dynamic/metatags/article-detail/223_important_notice_voluntary_recall_update


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

i got mine because brandy new it was under $15k (corolla) in 2004 (NOTE - i'm 6'4 and i actually fit fine). i have since put 107,000+ miles on it and its cruisin'. i dig it. it fits bikes on the roof, and surfboards too. i need a car for my job - i audit places, and travel all over - i get decent mileage (it claims 40 mpg, but we all know its lower) and my car was made in kentucky (i think - i remember the sticker saying it was 100% manufactured in the US). 

my old ford was 100% manufactured out of the US, and got 1/3 the gas mileage, and the trans died on me at 57,000 miles - thats BS.

cars suck, but since i have to use one to help me put food on the table for my family, i have no problem buying what i bought - i'd buy another in fact if i had to - but i plan on taking this thing until it just can't continue.


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## Holyhandgrenade (Dec 13, 2007)

I don't think anybody's pointed out something interesting. Ford is rated higher in initial quality than Toyota nowadays. Through my car magazine reading, blame has been placed on Toyota trying to mess with their system of building cars...not that Toyota's are now being built in the USA.


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## huh (Oct 20, 2004)

Holyhandgrenade said:


> I don't think anybody's pointed out something interesting. Ford is rated higher in initial quality than Toyota nowadays. Through my car magazine reading, blame has been placed on Toyota trying to mess with their system of building cars...not that Toyota's are now being built in the USA.


My Toyota was built in Canada.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

any vehicle manufactured in the United States are required to use local vendors for parts such as tires, electrical and electronics. Thus Toyota is made of American made, chinese made etc. parts. I met someone who works at Toyota America and she told me a lot of their problems are from parts from the local vendors. If you can get an Japanese Built Toyota you'll be better off, tho I'm not sure if they import any of their models to the US.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Even more Toyota's American workers earn almost half what domestic car makers pay and the benefits are even less.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

AC/BC said:


> Even more Toyota's American workers earn almost half what domestic car makers pay and the benefits are even less.


out of curiosity - where did you get this info from?


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## Diamondhead (Nov 2, 2007)

IMHO Toyota quality is more perceived quality then actual quality, I guess the uninformed need something to drive. Too bad it is at the expense of of the domestic companies whom waited too long to step up to the plate.


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## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

Diamondhead said:


> IMHO Toyota quality is more perceived quality then actual quality, I guess the uninformed need something to drive. Too bad it is at the expense of of the domestic companies whom waited too long to step up to the plate.


...yawn... so where do you suppose this "imaginary perception" comes from? Do you think us "uninformed" simply perceive that our vehicles run for many many miles virtually trouble free, while in fact that isn't the case???

BTW Toyota is for all purposes a domestic manufacturer...


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## Mr.Bob (Jan 6, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> IMHO Toyota quality is more perceived quality then actual quality.


What's so special about your humble opinion that we should care? That's an honest question. It isn't rocket science to come up with an objective measure of quality so if you have actual statistically meaningful evidence to support your position, spit it out.


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## Mr.Bob (Jan 6, 2004)

AC/BC said:


> Even more Toyota's American workers earn almost half what domestic car makers pay and the benefits are even less.


Exactly how much do each make in pay and benefits? Just curious.


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## Spindelatron (Aug 15, 2006)

1984 toyota pickup=two clutch changes, - 300,000 miles

I own a 93 toyota truck and it has only 213k 
you don't think they have improved their quality in 9 years?
and i've only had it replaced once. also only one change the ol breaks breaks either


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Most of my buddies with Jeeps can easily get 200k+ on them. I think the whole US vs. Japan thing is a function of bad marketing by US manufacturers and brilliant marketing by Japan. Detroit still has the reputation (it rightfully gained) years ago. Most people I know and work with don't even wanna think American because they associate it with BAD. I saw earlier in this thread that Japanese cars are now getting more recalls than US cars which is 100% true. The problem is you would never know. If a US manufacturer has a recall its front page news but if an import does - they bury it on page 15. Try and find the actual data and you'll see Japanese and US cars are about the same. - I would by the ford.


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## Diamondhead (Nov 2, 2007)

texasflood said:


> ...yawn... so where do you suppose this "imaginary perception" comes from? Do you think us "uninformed" simply perceive that our vehicles run for many many miles virtually trouble free, while in fact that isn't the case???
> 
> BTW Toyota is for all purposes a domestic manufacturer...


 Double...yawn... back 20 some years ago when I took my first job as an automotive tech. (I'm an ASE master cert. tech. now) I would have agreed with you, Toyota had a leg up on quality, but lets not live in the past.:nono: Times have changed, last year FOMCO had top honers in 5 different categories, in J.D. Powers surveys, while Toyota had 3 
A couple years ago I had the opportunity to work on a 1999 F-350 with 995,000 miles + on it ,(I'm sure it has over a million miles on it today) the drivers seat upholstery was worn through, and the passengers side mirror was held on by duct tape, but other then that it was in great shape, still had the original engine and transmission. I also heard a story on the news the other day of a man whom has over a million miles on his half ton Chevy truck, and wants GM to swap him a new truck. A few years back I gave my 1993 Ford Escort wagon to my brother, it had 450,000 mi on it when I gave it to him. He is still using it today as a winter beater. All original except for fuel pump, water pump, and head gasket.
I am not saying Toyota is junk I'm just saying that Toyota has the perception of quality,and some buy into that perceived quality. It serves Toyota well, however, Joe Blow consumer gets hosed, when the 4 cyl. engine in his Camry dies a painful death due to oil starvation caused by a faulty engine design. :sad: 
The facts are the facts, and opinions get set aside, Toyota recalled more vehicles then it sold in the United States in the 05 and 06 model years period!!!!!!!

I've grown tired of this conversation:yawn:

BTW Last I heard Toyota is a foreign corporation and all profits go to Japan, regardless of where there products are produced (just schooling you up on economics 101)


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Amen - I'd like to buy Diamondhead a a drink!


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## Diamondhead (Nov 2, 2007)

Mr.Bob said:


> What's so special about your humble opinion that we should care? That's an honest question. It isn't rocket science to come up with an objective measure of quality so if you have actual statistically meaningful evidence to support your position, spit it out.


You are right Mr. Bob, what is so special about my humble opinion? I've only spent the last 22 years of my life in the automotive business, earned an ASE master certification along the way, fixed what was broke, and maintained what isn't. All makes, and all models from Yugo to Rolls Royce, I figure out the problems, take them apart, fix what needs fixing, put them back together, and send them off back down the road with a hand shake, a smile, and a 12 mo warranty, its my job! Enough of my resume. If your job, was working on rockets, and you had an opinion about rockets, I think I might want to hear what you had to say about rockets, instead of being dismissive, because I don't like what you have to say about rockets!:madmax:

Opinions are like :ciappa: everyone has one so here are some facts:
http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?ID=91560

Here is another one:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/

One more just for grins  :
http://ezinearticles.com/?Ford-Bags-Most-Quality-Awards-In-JD-Power-Survey&id=597998


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## Diamondhead (Nov 2, 2007)

*Homer says "Mmmm BEER"*



stephen11364 said:


> Amen - I'd like to buy Diamondhead a a drink!


Hey stephen11364 check out what I'm drinking at the BEER forum :thumbsup:


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

rockhound said:


> What about the 2000GT or the AWD Turbo Celicas?


Good luck finding one of those around. I would love to drive one.

Really like the old FJs would really like to find an old truck and do some work on it. Of course all the parts on these dang things have gone thru the roof recently and maintaining one might be more than it is worth.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AC/BC said:


> Even more Toyota's American workers earn almost half what domestic car makers pay and the benefits are even less.


Well, if you could actually qualify that statement it would be nice, but it does bring up an interesting point;

One of the main reasons the US manufacturers could never innovate or come up with far better designs and cars was that they could not evolve. The union contracts and "way of business" they chose did them in. I have some pretty direct knowledge of this (as I've probably said before in this thread), and a good example would be steering wheels or other controls. The US manufactures contract with companies to provide these parts, but what happens when these parts either are not up to standard or simply inferrior? Then they're screwed, they can't change, they can't break the contract. Then think about hundreds if not more of these parts in a vehicle and you get a good picture of why they were so shitty, and even why they continue to have problems or be inferrior in terms of performance or milege or whatever. You don't just have to "go with" those parts you originally said you would, you have to design everything else around them as well. This may be what most manufacturers do to different extents, but the US manufacturers had to do it to a much higher extent. This phenominon applies past just parts aquisition.


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## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

Diamondhead said:


> I've grown tired of this conversation:yawn:
> 
> BTW Last I heard Toyota is a foreign corporation and all profits go to Japan, regardless of where there products are produced (just schooling you up on economics 101)


 Yes, it is a boring conversation - certainly no one is convincing each that their OPINION (and that's about all it is) is right or wrong. But, just because you "schooled" me on econ 101, I thought I might point out that anyone that works for Toyota - whether it's in Japan, North America or elsewhere pays taxes and spends their earnings in the country in which they live, thus adding to the economy of that country. I also seem to recall that Toyota is a publically traded company...


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## MC Gusto (Feb 5, 2007)

i own an 03 tundra and have had zero probelms. I bought it because it was the highest trated truck for dependibility and had the highest resale value. I work in the oil field and beat my vehicles, i have also had 05 chevs for work trucks, they have a good drivetrain btw. I will be buying a new truck this year and will not get another toyota because the new tundra has just been rated below average according to edmunds and other publications, plus its getting 12 mpg real world driving. Who can afford that? What will i be buying? A Ford. Working in the oil field of northern canada i get to see whats good and whats not, ford F150s, 250s and the older 350s are good tuff trucks. If they still made the old model tundra i would buy that in an instant though. Toyota has gone from 1st to 5th in reliabilty this year.


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

MC Gusto said:


> i own an 03 tundra and have had zero probelms. I bought it because it was the highest trated truck for dependibility and had the highest resale value. I work in the oil field and beat my vehicles, i have also had 05 chevs for work trucks, they have a good drivetrain btw. I will be buying a new truck this year and will not get another toyota because the new tundra has just been rated below average according to edmunds and other publications, plus its getting 12 mpg real world driving. Who can afford that? What will i be buying? A Ford. Working in the oil field of northern canada i get to see whats good and whats not, ford F150s, 250s and the older 350s are good tuff trucks. If they still made the old model tundra i would buy that in an instant though. Toyota has gone from 1st to 5th in reliabilty this year.


But why don't people no this? From reading this thread many Japanese car owners are saying they are having many recalls etc. I heard a mechanic on a weekly talk radio show say the exact same thing but when I ask a coworker they always say American cars are crap go with a import they don't have any problems.


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## MC Gusto (Feb 5, 2007)

probably because toyota was on top for so long that people assume they are still te best. Hyundai now is making some of the best/reliable and safest vehicles on the planet and i think people still think pony when you say hyundai. anyway i read the president of toyota was embarassed at the giant decline in reliablity and was blaming alot of it on the new plant in texas. Who knows but they have lost me on the fullsize trucks anyway. who builds a fullsize crew cab and doesnt give you an option on a box longer than 5.5 ft? And why the hell cant you get a truck ith a rubber floor anymore? There making the truck more like a car every year.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

my family has bought 2 91 tercels for less than $500 with aroung 180k on them, and drove them over 300k, one is still going, the other we upgraded to a 93 corolla. they go forever.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

Because its a badass supercharged 97 4runner. nuff said


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

Diamondhead said:


> BTW Last I heard Toyota is a foreign corporation and all profits go to Japan, regardless of where there products are produced (just schooling you up on economics 101)


some hypotheicals (we'll call this econ 201 since you're 'schooling' us)

all profits for ford go to the major shareholders (and that is a very small number of people - the number of people? in the teens is being generous) - and if you think that they haven't invested any of their money overseas - you're a fool. generally, all profits from each company go to about 10 or 20 total people (the major shareholders of said company, like ford's shareholders) overall - and ya know what cars they are probably driving - german. not a mexican or canadian made "US" car (i.e. they're not driving a ford).

if you think that this american money 'stays' here - you're wrong. maybe in the 1950's or 1970's the money would stay here - but here's the lowdown of econ 201: welcome to the global economy. ALL of our worker's wages (car manufacturing to you name it) go to china (because all we buy is crap made in china - because our crappy president never had the balls to stand up to china and address our f'ing trade deficit with them - a multi-BILLION dollar trade deficit), and exec's (in the US) wages go to 401(k)s and tax shelters and mutuals that are invested in foreign companies from all over the world. so none of our money stays here. billions goes to china and europe and south america and central america and the middle east and india every damn year. unless US business execs are literally giving their money away to american people - it ain't staying here. and even if most of it was - its not helping you or me - its sitting in their trusts - not anyone else's.

so this BS about profits 'going to japan'... sure, the profits go there for about 5 minutes - then ya know where their execs invest that money? right back here in the US, for example, our banks, or they follow the lead of wherever our execs are investing it - like in south america, europe, the middle east. get out of the 1900's. welcome to the 2000's - the flow of money is not so isolationist anymore.

but i guess this should go in F88 versus a car and biker forum.

either way: why did i buy one? because i couldnt find an american car that was (1) made in the US that (2) had the pricepoint and (3) the features i was looking for. toyota had all that - and one thing about recalls - all cars break - all of them - some of us get lucky and dont have as many problems as someone else - either way - you're gonna be sinking cash - lots of it - into your car, whether its a ford, toyota, nissan, volvo, jaguar...


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## Diamondhead (Nov 2, 2007)

*Follow the money*



clarkenstein said:


> some hypotheicals (we'll call this econ 201 since you're 'schooling' us)
> 
> all profits for ford go to the major shareholders (and that is a very small number of people - the number of people? in the teens is being generous) - and if you think that they haven't invested any of their money overseas - you're a fool. generally, all profits from each company go to about 10 or 20 total people (the major shareholders of said company, like ford's shareholders) overall - and ya know what cars they are probably driving - german. not a mexican or canadian made "US" car (i.e. they're not driving a ford).
> 
> ...


 Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products. 
The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.

I live on the Mississippi river, and I watch the barges go by, loaded up with taconite pellets from the iron range in northern Minnesota. Years ago, the barges used to turn up the Ohio river, to deliver the iron ore to places like Bethlehem Steel or US Steel in Pennsylvania, in turn that steel would be shipped to GM, and GM would take that steel and make it into automobiles that were then sold both domestically and abroad. In this scenario the US has a first world economy. 
Now days, our natural resources go straight down to the Gulf of Mexico, where it is loaded on a Japanese ship, it is shipped to a Japanese steel mill, the steel is then used to make Japanese automobile parts, these parts are then brought back to the USA, were our relatively cheap labor force is used to assemble these parts, into automobiles, that are then sold to us. In this scenario the US is now a third wold economy, being used for our natural resources, our cheap labor, and as consumers for the finished product. Again it matters were the profits go. -econ. 101-

It seems to me, that people whom make the global economy argument, do so as a rationalization for there purchases.


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Fantastic points. America should put the same or higher tariffs foreign countries put on our cars!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Fantastic points. America should put the same or higher tariffs foreign countries put on our cars!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Fantastic points. America should put the same or higher tariffs foreign countries put on our cars!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


----------



## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


----------



## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


----------



## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


----------



## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


----------



## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Diamondhead said:


> Hey clarkenstein you've made some good points, and I agree with some of what you said, however I have some questions for you. If we live in a global economy, where money flows from country to country without any consequence, why is it that the Japanese government puts a limit on the amount of foreign investments in it's corporations to 10% ? Any thing higher then 10% has to go before a government review board, and I'm not talking about the amount an individual can invest in a corporation, I'm talking about the total shares of a corporation available to foreign investors.
> Why did the Japanese government kick both GM and Ford out of Japan, when a small textile and loom manufacturing company decided to start making cars? The upstart textile company was Toyota, and if you fast forward to today, both GM and Ford are still locked out of the Japanese market because the steep tariffs it imposes on there products.
> The answers are clear, they are protecting there corporations, and there economy, because they know, as well as I know, that were the profits go matters! There is no way around that no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> 
> ...


Excellent points! America needs to put the same, or higher tariffs on foreign cars that we face when selling abroad!


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

Diamondhead said:


> It seems to me, that people whom make the global economy argument, do so as a rationalization for there purchases.


good points as well -

we're definitely moving to more of an F88 thread thing here than car purchase reasons.

i'll hold off on talking to the gov't control piece - (thats the F88 part) - but i do see your point (and it kinda talks to my trade deficit stance we should be taking - and we could bounce back and forth on trade regs, tariffs, not doing the world economic 'favors', etc probably for days; warren buffet actually spoke to the trade deficit yesterday in an interview - good stuff), but i digress...

your rationalization statement at the end of your post could be true, but i think (unfortunately) its more the case of people in the US not even taking the time to figure out where the thing they are buying is from... versus even giving them credit for rationalizing their purchases. i guess i think its more of an ignorance vs. rationalization thing.

i looked on the stickers of the cars i was considering for 3 main things - MPG, $, and "__% manufactured/assembled in US". those three parts on the toyota sticker were close enough for me. in a perfect world (for a state in need like michigan) it would read this:

100 MPG, $0  , 100% manufactured/assembled in US... but we all know that doesn't exist... so i got as close as i could to it for the $.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

EggsnBacon said:


> Because its a badass supercharged 97 4runner. nuff said


TRD < Supercharged F150 Lighning :yesnod:


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Sorry about the multiple posts before.
I have a 1970 Cuda' convertible 500,000+ miles on it. Anyone want to top that.


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## huh (Oct 20, 2004)

*This is why you buy a Toyota*

:thumbsup:






:thumbsup:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

AC/BC said:


> TRD < Supercharged F150 Lighning :yesnod:


Yeah, but you can still drive the toyota off road.

F150 lightning? Those kind of trucks are some of the dumbest things on the road. Let's make a low truck with lo-pro tires. It'll have the aerodynamics of a brick and we'll give it lots of horsepower! Yeah, that seems like a GREAT idea!!

It just goes to show you why detroit fails.

Fail.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

AC/BC said:


> TRD < Supercharged F150 Lighning :yesnod:


Thats quite possibly the funniest thing I've heard this year. Nice.


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## mumbles (Jul 22, 2006)

I bought a 99 4 runner cause its still made in Japan and Toyota has a better reliability rating than most us cars. 118,000 miles. Replaced the starter, battery and brakes. So far sooo good. Had an 87 small toy pickup sold at 100,000 miles replaced battery & brakes only... made in Japan. Had a 93 toy pickup made in USA with GM radiator which went out. Popped out of gear...shifter bushing. Sold it and bought the 4 runner.


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## huh (Oct 20, 2004)

AC/BC said:


> Not only did they over take Ford in sales, but they also took top honors for most recalls, two years running!
> 
> They're recalling nearly 1 million vehicals worldwide this year on most of there models. Last year they recalled 2.2 million. That comes out to 10% of the total number of cars made by Toyota are recalled anually. The second most recalled manufacture doesn't even come close. Shame. So im wondering what was the determining factor in your purchase?


This why I bought a Toyota!

GM CEO: 'People died in our cars' - Sep. 17, 2015


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

This thread is 7 years old! Uh, thanks?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

huh said:


> This why I bought a Toyota!
> 
> GM CEO: 'People died in our cars' - Sep. 17, 2015


Good thing people didn't die in Toyotas that were recalled.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

It's not a glorified mallcrawling minivan from Fiat, its a Toyota, no explanation necessary


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## Tweetie Peachie (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi, I'm not so familiar with other car brands because I grew up with 
Toyota cars in our family. My dad used to tell us that this brand has been known for its reliability, great performance, and price worth. I think, I would agree on that because until now we are still intact with our old Toyota XE. I should say that it has a great value among other cars.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

AC/BC said:


> TRD < Supercharged F150 Lighning :yesnod:


That's a joke, right?

In terms of acceleration and top end, sure. Any other metric (value, durability, etc)? Not even close.


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## jeepergirl17 (Feb 14, 2012)

shwinn8 said:


> It's not a glorified mallcrawling minivan from Fiat, its a Toyota, no explanation necessary


Cool FJ!! We love ours too! Why? Because it's a Toyota. I have had 4 Jeep Wranglers, a bunch of trucks, and a Bronco, and went with the FJ because it was bigger, and it's a Toyota!


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