# My beginner wife wants to go clipless



## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

My 48 year old beginner wife, wants clipless pedals and shoes for her MTB. 

She rides mostly on the road and when she ventures offroad, she struggles to get through simple terrain and I have to wait for her to catch up all the time. 

I have only been doing mountain biking for about a year, and I am not yet comforable with the idea of going clipless. Perhaps, by the end of this summer, I will feel confident enough.

So, to me it seems a bit premature putting clipless pedals on her MTB.

What do you ladies have to say on the subject?

BTW, she is fit. She plays soccer and paddles regularly. 

I am worried about her getting hurt. I would feel better if she first developed her technique a bit more and if she had more confidence offroad. 

Her experienced friend has clipless pedals and I wonder if she is just reacting to what her friend is using, more than she understands her own needs.

old_dude


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## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Well, everyone learns at their own pace and if she's still struggling on simple terrain, it might be wise to try out a new pair of flats with pins and grippy soled shoes. You can still learn to pedal full circles with flats and still maintain confidence on trickier terrain.

On the other hand, if she really feels she's ready for clipless, give her a chance and let her see if that's what she really wants. Maybe some SPDs set as loosely as possible will work for her. As the saying goes, you'll never know until you try. 

My experience, contrary to everyone's else's, is that flats work better for me. I started out with 959s and decided that i wanted more platform so I switched to Time Zs.Those are great pedals but I just got tired of not being able to get out at the last second when I needed to so I bought some Wellgo Magnesium pedals and sticky soled shoes. My confidence level has increased tenfold so I may go back to clipless this summer but at this point, I'm happy with flats.

THere's something to be said for gaining more skills with the flats and then going clipless when you're ready but if she really wants to try them out now, let her see if they might work for her. 
Good Luck!


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

My initial gut feeling is, let her do what she wants to do.


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## sissta swervy (Mar 20, 2004)

*clipless=good*

Clipless pedals/shoes are probably the single best improvement one can make, imo, and that is irregardless of skill level.

It will take a few rides to get everything dialed in and comfortable with them, but once that happens, riding will improve exponentially., and so will her confidence.

I myself feel much more confident descending rockky technical downhills on my mountain bike, when my feet are clipped in. I feel more 'un-confident' if I have to descend a rocky terrain if one or both of my feet has comed unclipped for some reason, and I haven't gotten clipped back in yet.

Once she gets past the learning curve, things will be so very nice., Having feet clipped in will eventually be like second-nature to her, and her mountain biking world will change forever, for the better. 
I predict that she will no longer struggle to get through simple terrain.

I am a big fan of being clipped in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let her do IT !!!,,, And get yerrself some too!!!!!!


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

I feel the way we learn and grow is by taking risks, facing challenges, making our own decisions. It's too bad it's not old_dude's wife asking our opinion.

I'm currently a big fan of clipless. I figure if she wants to try it, cool. I don't know about flats and grippy soles. I know before I went clipless, I rode quite a while using mtn bike shoes without the cleats installed. I was amazed at how much better they were than my sneakers! Much better power transfer. I was using cages too. (Maybe this is only good for x-country type of riding?)

Would she really be out much financially if she tried clipless? Do you think a couple falls are going to make her quit mtn biking forever? Especially if she's been doing it a year now and sounds like she has caught the bug? I hate to see you hold her back, old_dude.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

old_dude said:


> My 48 year old beginner wife, wants clipless pedals and shoes for her MTB.
> 
> She rides mostly on the road and when she ventures offroad, she struggles to get through simple terrain and I have to wait for her to catch up all the time.
> 
> ...


I apologize for the really long winded response&#8230; but there's no simple way to put this.

If your wife wants to give them a try, by all means she should!! And so should you. Clipless pedals bring mountain (and road) biking to a whole new level. When I first started out, I was also motivated to try them based on the fact that the people I rode with were all using them. That's how one progresses in this sport&#8230; by trying new things and forcing oneself to take it to a new level.

Here's what you'll notice once you try them: All of a sudden you are no longer limited to mashing all the time on the downstroke of your pedaling motion. You can pull up with the opposite leg and apply more pressure to the pedals during the entire pedal stroke. This translates directly to having more control of the bike. If you're doing any kind of road or XC type riding, you're both really missing out by not using them. I also agree with whomever it was who posted that being clipped in on more technical sections can actually give you a feeling of more security since you are not going to get bounced off the pedals (that, to me, would be unnerving).

There are some very good pedal choices out there. Here's a synopsis of my experience with various designs:

*Shimano SPD Style* (rode these very briefly when I started riding)
2 sided entry. I haven't ridden these in a few years and I admit that the pair I had were not the highest quality. Regardless, I found them cumbersome to clip into and sporatic to clip out of and mud performance was always dismal. One real benefit is that you can dial in the engagement setting to be either really easy or really hard. These might be a good choice for a beginner to start with for that very reason. However, I would recommend switching to a different style once the concept of being clipped in becomes comfortable

*Speedplay Frogs* (I rode these for 3+ years)
2 sided entry. Zero effort release to get out of, but they can sometimes be difficult to clip in (sometimes I thought I was clipped in and actually wasn't). Mud performance is OK, but not great. They only release one way (by turning your ankle away from the bike)
With some shoes you have to grind away some sole material to get the cleat to fit properly. The cleats also wear fairly quickly and are somewhat expensive to replace. Eventually I got tired of that "I think I'm clipped in" scenario added to the fact that about twice a year I would fall in such a way that a) the pedals didn't disengage and b) my body was contorted in such a way that I could not get unclipped without someone on the ride doubling back to help me out. I know that sounds kind of silly but it is caused solely by the fact that the pedals only disengage in one direction and sometimes one does fall in such a way that it's not possible to turn your ankle away from the frame. I have another friend who still rides this style pedal and I can say that the exact same thing happens to her a couple times a year too&#8230; but she loves them anyway.

*Crank Brothers Egg Beaters* (switched to these about 4 months ago)
4 sided entry. Very easy to engage and disengage (not as easy to disengage as the Frogs but still very easy). Exceptional performance in mud. Very light. The come in several styles, some offering more of a platform than others. Depending on which direction you mount the cleats the disengagement can be tailored to be easier or harder. It took me a couple rides to get used to the minimial resistance when unclipping (since I was used to the zero resistance of the Frogs), but the adjustment was very easy. The improvement in engagement and mud performance along with being able to unclip in either direction makes these my favorite pedals so far.

*Time ATAC*. (haven't ridden these personally but some friends do)
2 sided entry. Similar benefits of the Egg Beaters, but I think they might be slightly harder to clip in/out of than the Egg Beaters. If you're a big strong person, this probably isn't a big deal. But I'm small lighter rider so I've stayed away from these. One of my riding buddies raves about them though, so they are another option to consider.

If and when you do go the clipless route, practice engaging and disengaging while someone is holding the bike up for you while stopped. Then go practice riding around on something soft like grass to cushion your fall (because you probably will fall a couple times at first). The key is to make the unclipping motion second nature and a completely subconscious action so that when you need to do it on the road or on the trail, you don't even think about it. After a little practice that is exactly what will happen.


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

if she wants them, go for it. i suggest using shimano. from what i understand shimano makes a special cleat for beginners(easier to disengage).

good luck, and have fun!

Rita(50 y.o.)


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Share the joy of falling over at a stand still with your loved one today!

If you both try them at the same time you'll have alot of fun encouraging each other, teasing each other etc. I switched to clipless almost immediately and never looked back. Yeah there were a few falls, but the benefits so outweigh the detriments I wouldn't give it a second thought--unless you don't have alot of money or something.


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## CarolinaGrl (Apr 9, 2004)

I vote yes too for letting her do what she wants. I went clipless after only a month on the bike, mostly because I was falling a lot anyway. I figured why not go ahead and get all the falling out of the way at once. I went with SPDs and kept them dialed pretty loose. This way I could get out pretty easy but had the benefits of the clip on climbs and technical sections that would normally bounce my feet right off the flats. I think I actually fell more from having my foot slide off a flat and not being able to recover than I have from not being able to get unclipped in time.


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## Brodiegrrl (Jan 12, 2004)

I rode on both flat pedals and clipless. 

When on XC Rides and semi technical I prefer clipless since you are more powerful and committed to the trail. You can use the full rotation of the pedal stroke when clipped in ( pulling and pushing). On flats you are only really pushing and can only pull up on the back 3/4 of the pedal stroke. 

It is easier to bail when not clipped in. 

On the really technical trails when I'm riding skinnys or steep rocky terrain I prefer to be on flats. I like the ability to move my foot around and to bail faster - especially on skinnys. 

There is a learning curve when first using clipless. Keeping them loose or even using the flat/clipless pedal will help with confidence. 

If you are going to use flat pedals, it is highly advisable to wear shin pads. The little screws hurt when they ram into your shin. You will become a better technical rider (IMO) on flats since you must use skill to keep your foot on the pedal, not the clip. 

If she wants to become a stonger faster rider, get clipless. If that is not important then stay on the flats. 

In the extreme cases notice that trials riders are on flats, racers are on clipless.


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

*FWIW - my .02...*

I was a new mtb'r at age 39. I only rode offroad when I started. I knew I wanted to go clipless but I decided to set a goal for myself first. My goal was to be able to ride most of my regular ride without dabbing (putting a foot down) before going clipless. The first month it seemed my feet were on the ground as much as off. It took about 3 months of riding 3 times a week on the same 5 miles of trails before I reached my goal.

Knowing that I could do most of my ride without dabbing gave me the confidence to be clipped in. Also, I knew it was time to clip in when I started hitting trail sections so fast that a couple of times my feet (yes, both of them) came off the pedals in the rough stuff. No fun!

Although everyone is different, I would suggest she (and you) consider this method.

As for the type of clipless pedals. I have and have loved my Eggbeaters for 2 years now. They are the easier to get out of than any other pedal I've tried. However, if I were new to clipless I would definitely suggest the Eggbeaters that have a platform (Candy's I think). As a new clipless rider, there will be sections that you will definitely feel more comfortable with one foot unclipped. (In reality it's kind of a fallacy but one most people new to clipless share.) A plain Eggbeater isn't conducive to pedaling unclipped like many other clipless pedals can be.

Oh and on a side note.....we all react to what we see better riders doing/using. They are our role models on the trail. That's how I learned most of my technical skills - by seeing a better rider do it and imitating them. A question - is SHE worried about getting hurt? Is she falling over already and handling it ok? From a female perspective......try not to be "overprotective" of her on the trail. She will best know her limits and abilities and how much risk she is willing to take just as you do those things for yourself. Just as you would not push her into doing something she's not comfortable with doing.....don't hold her back from trying what she thinks she can do......you just never know!!! Encourage each other to take acceptable risks and you will both be better riders for it. My husband has accompanied me to the E.R. for stitches but never once said "maybe you shouldn't .....(whatever he thinks I shouldn't do)".

Happy trails.....

Lori


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

*if she wants to go clipless let her.*



old_dude said:


> My 48 year old beginner wife, wants clipless pedals and shoes for her MTB.
> 
> She rides mostly on the road and when she ventures offroad, she struggles to get through simple terrain and I have to wait for her to catch up all the time.
> 
> ...


just because you don't feel confident going clipless doesn't mean that she feels the same way that you do! (not trying to be harsh here.)

when you're first learning to ride you're going to fall down......a lot! going clipless means you'll fall down at slow speeds sometimes.

i switched to clipless 3 months after buying my 1st mtb and 2 weeks after starting to ride with more experienced riders. seeing them clipping in gave me the confidence to try it as well.

if you're wife thinks she's ready let her have at it!

rt


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

I say she should try it. Start off using them while riding around on grass, or the most forgiving terrain you can find. There's nothing wrong with learning to ride more technical terrain with clipless pedals - just learn to get in and out of them first, and get a clipless system that's consistent and easy to use. If you have a clipless pedal with a larger platform (like my Crank Bros Mallet C's) if need be, you can ride them unclipped through technical sections and they're the best of both worlds. 

If she feels ready to try them, that's all that I'd be concerned about.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

connie said:


> If you have a clipless pedal with a larger platform (like my Crank Bros Mallet C's) if need be, you can ride them unclipped through technical sections and they're the best of both worlds.


That was my reasoning when I bought my first pair of clipless pedals -- the red platform Shimano 636's. But, I found that whenever my shoe was anywhere NEAR that platform, the cleat got sucked in so that I was always clipped in!?


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*I learned about shin pedal wacks the hard way...*



Brodiegrrl said:


> If you are going to use flat pedals, it is highly advisable to wear shin pads. The little screws hurt when they ram into your shin. You will become a better technical rider (IMO) on flats since you must use skill to keep your foot on the pedal, not the clip.
> 
> If she wants to become a stonger faster rider, get clipless. If that is not important then stay on the flats.
> 
> In the extreme cases notice that trials riders are on flats, racers are on clipless.


Thanks, for the advice. I found out the hard way, about getting wacked in the shin and the back of the leg by a steel pedal with pointy things sticking out. I have a solution for that, without using clipless or shin guards.

I cut down a pair of clips so they just cup the toes of my shoes.

These keep my feet postioned on the pedal like clipless, prevent my feet from slipping off the pedal like clipless, and they provide a greater range of power in the pedal stroke, although much less so than clipless. However, they make it very easy to get a foot down.

I find that they help give me some of the feel of using clipless, while building confidence. I consider them to be a good transition strategy, to move from platforms, to clipless.

It was when I offered to mount a pair on my wife's bike that she told me she wants clipless. I figured she might want to try these for a bit and do a tad more riding offroad, before jumping into clipless pedals.

I figured on getting CB Candy SL clipless pedals, when the time comes. They are light, good for mud, they are supposed to be easy to clip in, and clip out, and they have a bit of a platform.

Before starting this thread, I told my wife, that if she really wants to go clipless, to try on some clipless shoes, to find her size, and then I will see if I can find a deal on the WEB, for the shoes and pedals.

I would just prefer it, if she would proceed more cautiously and get more experience first.

old_dude


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

JustDoIt said:


> That was my reasoning when I bought my first pair of clipless pedals -- the red platform Shimano 636's. But, I found that whenever my shoe was anywhere NEAR that platform, the cleat got sucked in so that I was always clipped in!?


I've experienced that with shimano pedals, but not the Mallet C's. To me, it feels like there's more of a specific motion for clipping in, and the platform is big and grippy enough that I can pedal without being clipped in if I want. Shoes probably make a difference too - I have more of a hiking-style shoe so there's plenty of sole/tread to contact the pedal platform. If you had something more racing oriented with less tread, it might cause you to clip in earlier.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

old_dude said:


> I would just prefer it, if she would proceed more cautiously and get more experience first.
> 
> old_dude


Truth is, she's gonna "tip" whether she's experienced or not. Another way to look at it is that she is not totally ingrained into here clips'n'straps pedals yet, so she may actually take to the clipless pedals better now than later on.

I've seen people start off mountain biking using clipless, and I've seen people who have been riding for years but are still nervous about switching. I agree with most of the sentiments here, which all seem to state, she should do whatever she feels like doing. I know you are concerned about her safety, but confidence directly corresponds to safety. If she feels more confident and capable in clipless, or in a purple bunny suit, go for it - It doesn't hurt (much) to try. If she changes her mind, she can always save the purple bunny suit for later when she feels ready.

Personally, I feel like there is no time like the present. Often, after getting used to clipless, people feel more in control of their bikes. Since she does a fair bit of road riding, she will benefit even more from the clipless.

Here's some tips, or more aptly, simple truths about making the "switch".

1. You will tip. Alot. Especially in crowded parking lots.

2. You've got to stay with it for 9 rides. This is my best approximation for how long it takes a rider to never look back at flats.

3. During the first ride you WILL tip at least once in the grass before riding, once on the pavement after riding, and a good 4 times on the trail. It WILL be frustrating, so don't be surprised when it is.

4. Switching back and forth between clipless and flats is a bad idea. They are two very different methods of riding and foot movement.

5. Sometimes getting a used pair of pedals is an easier way to start off as they are a little broken in already.

6. Did I mention that tipping will be a fact of life for the first few weeks of riding? The good news, is that it WILL go away.

_TIPPING_ - the act of getting one foot out, only to realize that your bike is leaning towards the opposite side. Generally results in large ass cheek bruising and a general ego bruising. Both forms of bruising should be medicated promptly with beer.

Just buy her a mini skirt for the influx in bruising during the first 2 weeks.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I recommed the doublesided clipless with a platform. something like the Shimano M545










Reasoning - Double sided clip in means no looking down or flipping to get the right side. Having the platform allows one to still keep their feet firmly and securely on the pedals with out being clipped in. Make sence? This is for the times when one feels sketchy and does NOTwant to be clipped in, the platform provides a stable place for the feet.

The smaller clipless pedals are hard, if not impossible, to stay on unclipped.


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*I got these for my beginner kids*

I also have two beginner teenage boys. I asked them if they would like to try the half or mini clips, like the ones I use. They liked the idea.

When asked about clipless, they were reluctant, "Maybe later."

So, I went to the LBS and picked up two pair of these:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...color=&img=/largeimages/639584.jpg&view=large

They are a bit longer than the cut down clips that I use, but will still be easier to enter than full clips.

I can later cut these back to just cup the toes, if the kids find them too long.

I really think these make a good transition strategy to go from platform to clipless. It takes a while to get used to rotating the pedals to enter, but it gets easier over time.

Since, my boys want to wait before going clipless, these should save their shins and calves from pedal wacks, until they are ready.

I will see how the boys make out, and see if my wife warms to the idea.

As for my wife going clipless, many of you are saying "Go for it." Yet, just about everyone is saying, that she will fall for sure. That is easy to say, when you are not around to pick up the pieces. It sounds to me more like bravado, than common sense.

I am sure, even if we all wait and get more experience before going clipless, that we will all fall anyway. But, I would expect much fewer falls, which could make a significant difference in injuries.

BTW, I was thinking of eventually getting CB Candy SLs, but I read some reviews on the Eggbeaters and now have serious reservations about these pedals. People are complaining that if you hit something with the bottom of the pedal, it releases. I don't like the sound of that. I ride over logs, rocks, bumps, ridges, etc, that can knock the bottom of the pedals.

I am now warming to the idea of Time ATAC Alium pedals, which are about 60 grams more in weight, but are less expensive. They clear mud well, and also have good float. I have seen them for $60. I will need four sets eventually, so saving on cost is more important, than if I were just buying one set.

old_dude


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

The problem is that those toe clips have no correllation whatsoever to transitioning to clipless pedals. The motion is different and you're just adding one more thing to learn, and then unlearn. What we're saying by "you're going to flop over a few times making the switch" applies whether it's your first week on a bike or you've been riding with toe clips for years. Why not get it over with? Ride in the grass to start with until you get used to clipless and then what pieces will there be to pick up? Falling doesn't hurt THAT much - if she's not worried about it, why are you?


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

> As for my wife going clipless, many of you are saying "Go for it." Yet, just about everyone is saying, that she will fall for sure. That is easy to say, when you are not around to pick up the pieces. It sounds to me more like bravado, than common sense.


Why don't you let your wife make her own educated decision on the matter. Have her read all the posts here and if she still wants to give them a try she should go for it. The common attitude I'm picking up from your posts is that "you" don't want her to use them (this is not a slam, just an observation). Mountain Biking is inherently dangerous -- clipped in or not. We all accept that risks when slinging a leg over the saddle. In that regard, real common sense would dictate that we never sling a leg over the saddle. I don't see any real benefit from going from platform to clips to clipless. She should either take the plunge or not -- and it really should be her decision to make.



> BTW, I was thinking of eventually getting CB Candy SLs, but I read some reviews on the Eggbeaters and now have serious reservations about these pedals. People are complaining that if you hit something with the bottom of the pedal, it releases. I don't like the sound of that. I ride over logs, rocks, bumps, ridges, etc, that can knock the bottom of the pedals.
> 
> I am now warming to the idea of Time ATAC Alium pedals, which are about 60 grams more in weight, but are less expensive. They clear mud well, and also have good float. I have seen them for $60. I will need four sets eventually, so saving on cost is more important, than if I were just buying one set.


Before you go that route, I suggest that whoever is going to be riding the pedals should try them out first. I have heard from many people that the Times require more force to exit. I have been running the eggbeaters for over 4 months and have never had the "rock unclipping" problem that people talk about -- although I believe it does happen. Probably depends on your riding style and whether you intentionally whack into rocks. My bike has a very low BB so I tend to ratchet over obstacles instead of smashing into them. Perhaps that's why it hasn't happened to me.


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*I disagree*



connie said:


> The problem is that those toe clips have no correllation whatsoever to transitioning to clipless pedals. The motion is different and you're just adding one more thing to learn, and then unlearn. What we're saying by "you're going to flop over a few times making the switch" applies whether it's your first week on a bike or you've been riding with toe clips for years. Why not get it over with? Ride in the grass to start with until you get used to clipless and then what pieces will there be to pick up? Falling doesn't hurt THAT much - if she's not worried about it, why are you?


I disagree on most of your main points.

If you are experienced you dab less, which means that you need to exit the clipless pedal less, and so you will have less occasion to fall down on the trail. Sure, you will fall, but not as much, if you are experienced.

That makes a big difference, if those few extra falls put you in a cast or scare you for life.

If you don't dab, most of your dismounting will be when you park and can focus more on what you are doing, not in some awkward dangerous spot. You can glide slowly while releasing the pedals, and then stop with your feet free. You won't be distracted by the terrain while you are doing it.

I would rather tip over against the side of my shed while stopped than fall on rocks or into tree trunks.

Also, your point about the motion being different, makes no sense. The pedals travel in circles, whether they are clipless or not. The cleats just attach your feet to the pedals. they don't change the path of pedal motion.

The mini clips keep the balls of your feet centered on the pedals like clipless. This is something that straight platforms do not do. It gets you accustomed to having the balls of your feet always on the center of the pedal, like clipless. If that were the only similarity, that in itself is enough to be a transition between clipless and platform.

However, the mini clips also keep your feet from sliding off the pedals. You don't get wacked in the shins and calves by a whipping pedal. That is also a similarity to clipless and so another transitioning characteristic.

It is also a very important one. If you have ever had your shins beaten to hamburger by the pedals, you would appreciate the importance.

The main differences are you can't pull up on the mini-clips, but you can get a foot down easily without worrying about the pedal releasing your foot.

In fact, the mini clips prevent you from putting your foot down by sliding it forward off the pedal. You end up moving your foot sideways to get it down, much like clipless, but with less restriction. This, I think, should train you, so that getting out of clipless pedals will seem natural right from the start, which should mean even less falls.

That would be transitioning characteristic number three.

As far as my wife not being worried about it, I think the passengers got on the Titanic with some enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is fine until someone gets hurt.

old_dude


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Time Aliums*



old_dude said:


> As for my wife going clipless, many of you are saying "Go for it." Yet, just about everyone is saying, that she will fall for sure. That is easy to say, when you are not around to pick up the pieces. It sounds to me more like bravado, than common sense.
> 
> I am sure, even if we all wait and get more experience before going clipless, that we will all fall anyway. But, I would expect much fewer falls, which could make a significant difference in injuries.
> 
> ...


I've used Time Aliums for about 5 years now, love 'em. Can't compare them to anything other than Shimano though, because that's all I've used so far. Times are not the best for first time clipless simply because you can't adjust the release tension. The only adjustment you can make is to file down the cleats so that they release with less twisting of the foot. Filing is trial and error, basically you're just hurrying along the normal wear process of the cleats.

I'm not about bravado, and the "just go for it, dude!" attitude isn't me at all. But I think if your wife wants to try clipless, it is her decision. (Unless she is a surgeon or concert pianist and the sole provider for the family, in which case a hand or arm injury would be a very bad thing... but I digress.) You said she is much slower than you, so it sounds like she is a cautious rider already. Don't you think she'll be careful for her own sake? It is nice that you are concerned for her well-being. But I think you should just remind her not to put a hand down to break her fall and let her do the rest. In my experience from when I learned clipless, the tumbles were just low speed slow-motion tip-overs. She really isn't taking any huge chances.

Spike


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

CycleMainiac said:


> I recommed the doublesided clipless with a platform. something like the Shimano M545


I dislike these platform types for beginners. The rider will think she's got an unclipped option that she doesn't really have, since the cleat engages so easily. The platform causes interference problems with the soles of some shoes.

I also think it's a mistake to try to learn on a cheap pair of clipless. Even I have trouble engaging a pair of Shimano 515s or the similar 324 half platform models. I'd expect the same from some lower end Wellgo and Ritchey models.

Shimano's new 520 pedals are relatively inexpensive and provide a smooth engagement, on par with Shimano's new 959s and old shining star, the 535. No, they're not platforms, but they do provide enough body to pedal on if not properly clipped in. And because they engage and release easily and predictably, they enhance the learning process.

I've been through this with two friends and my wife. One friend and my wife were both convinced the 545 combo platform pedals were what they needed. The friend had a miserable time and eventually switched to the 515s, which gave him more grief but he stuck through it. My wife worked for a few hours with the 545s and finally gave up, switching back to platforms. She's going to try again with 520s this spring.

In the end, it should be the rider's decision what works best. But to learn the basics, simple is sometimes better.


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

*and I disagree with you*



> In fact, the mini clips prevent you from putting your foot down by sliding it forward off the pedal. You end up moving your foot sideways to get it down, much like clipless, but with less restriction. This, I think, should train you, so that getting out of clipless pedals will seem natural right from the start, which should mean even less falls.


Your above statement is completely inaccurate.. The exit motion for clipless pedals has nothing to do with "sliding" your foot out. It's an ankle twisting motion that with most pedal designs requires minimal but firm force to disengage the cleat. If you get her in the habit of sliding her foot to the side to get off the pedal, she's going to have to completely re-learn the correct motion if and when she ever does to go clipless. All you're really doing is making the transition that much more complicated.

On another note, exactly what kind of trails are you taking this beginner wife on? This could be part of the problem. IMHO, there's absolutely no reason a true beginner can't start riding clipless pedals immediately (with some practice on a soft grass field first) if the trails are of the tamer/smoother variety. It's not rocket science and it's really no different than learning to ride a bike in the first place. You're most likely gonna fall at first until you pick up the knack. If there is any falling, it's going to be of the slow speed tipping variety and yeah, she might get bruised a few times. It sounds like she's willing to accept that risk, and you're the one that isn't.


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## DirtGirl (Jan 12, 2004)

If you have your mind made up that she shouldn't use clipless already, then why are you asking the question...or am I missing something? I don't mean to sound disrespectful but it sounds like you want confirmation that she shouldn't try clipless yet.

My take is that, if she wants to try, she should. With lots of pedals you can even leave one foot unclipped in scary sections. If she doesn't like it, she can always go back to flats or cages. Everyone falls over when they get used to clipless (whether new to clipless or just changing pedal style) and having more or less experience on a bike doesn't make any difference.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

old_dude said:


> Also, your point about the motion being different, makes no sense. The pedals travel in circles, whether they are clipless or not. The cleats just attach your feet to the pedals. they don't change the path of pedal motion.
> old_dude


I wasn't talking about the pedaling motion, I meant the clipping in and out motion is different. All the riders I know would say the same thing - those pedal clips are more of an encumberance than anything - your missing out on the added power of clipless pedals and adding to the difficulty of getting back into them. You're better off just riding platforms or switching to clipless. If you can't quit smacking your shins into the pedals or can't deal with the resulting scrapes, buy some armor - that can happen no matter what pedals you use. Obviously you have your mind made up though, so I should probably just quit debating this...

Honestly, I think if you're trying to learn to mountain bike with the attitude that you cannot accept injuries or falls, I'd tell you not to bother at all. Falling once in a while is just part of the learning curve. Even if you're a fantastic rider, accidents happen. I don't say that to scare anyone off, but the way I see it, it's just the truth and you should know it up front.


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

old_dude said:


> When asked about clipless, they were reluctant, "Maybe later."


It's no wonder - it sounds like you are dead set against clipless....



old_dude said:


> I really think these make a good transition strategy to go from platform to clipless. It takes a while to get used to rotating the pedals to enter, but it gets easier over time.


You're kidding right? Most people I know who tried toe clips call them "deathtraps". With eggbeaters you never have to consciously rotate the pedal to get in. Much more confidence inspiring when trying to get started up in a technical section.



old_dude said:


> Since, my boys want to wait before going clipless, these should save their shins and calves from pedal wacks, until they are ready.


Don't mistakenly believe that going clipless is going to save your shins/ankles/knees/calves/you name it from pedal whacks. I usually sport permanent bruises up and down my legs from being whacked by a pedal. Granted - they don't usually cut me - but sometimes they do. You can get your worst pedal bruises from hike-a-bike sections of trail or by simply giving the crank a spin to bring a pedal up where you want it and missing.



old_dude said:


> BTW, I was thinking of eventually getting CB Candy SLs, but I read some reviews on the Eggbeaters and now have serious reservations about these pedals. People are complaining that if you hit something with the bottom of the pedal, it releases. I don't like the sound of that. I ride over logs, rocks, bumps, ridges, etc, that can knock the bottom of the pedals.


Comment on your concerns about the Eggbeaters. I have not personally ridden Times but my husband had them after Coda and Shimano clipless pedals. So he was accustomed to being clipped in. His experience with the Times was that he couldn't get out of them - slow, fast whatever. He rode them for a month or more before giving up and getting Eggbeaters.

Myself, I have had the same pair of Eggbeaters for 2 years and appx. 2000 miles. They disengage beautifully - often without my conscious thought. It's been that way since the beginning. I'm amazed at how flawlessly they work. My miles are not of the extreme nature nor are our trails very rocky. However, they do regularly entail roots, ravines, log obstacles. I've encountered many rocks when we travel to other trails. Regardless, I have whacked my pedal (stumps usually get me) many times and not disengaged. I have accidentally disengaged maybe once after hitting something hard. I hit it so hard that I thought I would be pitched off. Therefore the fact that the pedal disengaged was of almost no concern.

I know these facts probably won't change your mind, but like others here - I think you're way off base with your concerns and your approach to them. No offense.

Good luck,
Lori


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh great... now we're just beating up on old_dude!  We are such b!tche$! Although, curiously, I completely agree with everything you just said. 

I'm the same way about air forks as he is about clipless pedals. Go figure!


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

he has already made up her mind. i give up.

Rita


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

zer0 said:


> he has already made up her mind. i give up.
> 
> Rita


No, now you're supposed to attempt to convince me that an air fork can meet or outperform and oil/coil fork! I dare you!


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> No, now you're supposed to attempt to convince me that an air fork can meet or outperform and oil/coil fork! I dare you!


ha. if you were a weight weenie you would know that air forks are best because they are lighter! and infinite tuning with the negative air spring and sag, and, and, you know! oil leaks all over the place, and, and, coils make too much noise.  air is best. especially hot air cause hot air is lighter.

Rita


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> Oh great... now we're just beating up on old_dude!  We are such b!tche$! Although, curiously, I completely agree with everything you just said.
> 
> I'm the same way about air forks as he is about clipless pedals. Go figure!


  Didn't mean to beat up on old_dude! Just trying to support what seems to be the majority opinion  I bet you make your fork decision for yourself after carefully weighing your options and not let someone force that decision on you.

If being opinionated, confident and vocal is being b!tchy - I guess we're all guilty  But what is it if you seem to be overprotective, solicit opinions/advice to support your theory and when the overwhelming experienced advice given is not what you wanted - reject it outright based on arguably flawed logic or inexperience?

Admittedly - I am the type of female rider (and I suspect most on this board are) who doesn't want their hand held and fussed over every step of the learning process. I want a coach/cheerleader showing/telling me I can do it when I doubt myself. I don't need someone saying you can't/shouldn't do whatever because - pick your reason here. I have progressed this far as a rider because of that attitude and not being held back because someone might have to pick up the pieces when I hurt myself.

I'm 42 years old - I know what risks are acceptable to me. I ride more by myself than with others. I'm a better rider than all the other females around here who are way younger and more fit than myself - save one or two. There are some obstacles and new tricks that I won't try alone. But once I've learned them in the company of others - I ride them alone. I know how to work on my own bike. I load it up, tear it down, fix and maintain everything including brakes, shocks, forks drivetrain, etc. Everything except things that need expensive special tools or training (I haven't tackled wheel truing yet but would like to try).

I guess the moral is ... if you ask for opinions on the boards, be prepared to get them and try not to get offended if posters disagree with you. Although, to old_dude's credit - I have not seen him take offense to our blather thus far.

Happy Trails Everyone!
Scubee


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

zer0 said:


> ha. if you were a weight weenie you would know that air forks are best because they are lighter! and infinite tuning with the negative air spring and sag, and, and, you know! oil leaks all over the place, and, and, coils make too much noise.  air is best. especially hot air cause hot air is lighter.
> 
> Rita


I'm gonna run out right now and buy one. Excellent arguments!


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

> I bet you make your fork decision for yourself after carefully weighing your options and not let someone force that decision on you.


Oh I made my fork decision long ago! And yes, with the criteria you mentioned.



> If being opinionated, confident and vocal is being b!tchy - I guess we're all guilty  But what is it if you seem to be overprotective, solicit opinions/advice to support your theory and when the overwhelming experienced advice given is not what you wanted - reject it outright based on arguably flawed logic or inexperience?


 I didn't really think anyone was being b!tchy... just waiting for the flame fest to begin is all. You hit the nail on the head in the above paragraph. Albeit without enough sarcasm and/or melancholy drama. 



> I haven't tackled wheel truing yet but would like to try.


Pick up a copy of this video (Bicycle Wheel Building 101) and you'll be an expert wheel truer in no time flat and perhaps you'll even try building a set up from scratch one day. Wrenching on the bike is half the fun for me.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Clipless is superior to ride in. I have ridden platforms and clips and clipless and the mechanical advantages of clipless are *absolutely * worth it. I converted while still an extreme newbie (riding 1 or 2 months). Actaully didn't tip over. A little practice goes a long way.

Invest in some pads for peace of mind, and get your family some clipless pedals.


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

Nah - I didn't think you were calling ME a b!tch  And I too, was wondering if a flame fest was iminent. In fact - I was starting to wonder if the thread wasn't a troll....

Thanks for the wheel truing tip. I agree that working on my bike is fun. When my husband was working last Friday night he called and asked what I was doing. Told him I was in the garage, drinking a beer, listening to blues and working on my bike for Saturday's ride. It was a great evening! 

Besides - unless you have a GREAT LBS (we don't) - it's sometimes easier to get the small adjustments right yourself. Every time I had my LBS try to adjust my old disc brakes it would come back worse or at best the same. I finally gave up, found the manuals, got some online advice and started experimenting with the adjustments myself. I could tear them down and set them back up with confidence that not only would they work - they would rock! Then every time I would take the bike in for other service I would stress to them "Don't touch my brakes!!!"

Have a great day! It rainedhere yesterday but only enough to settle the dust so might get a ride in after work this afternoon......yea!

~Lori


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I also have to wonder about the *guys* who post here asking for advise from women then argue the values of that advise. Take the advise that suits you and ignore that that does not. But don't ask for advise then tell us it's wrong.   


I have to agree with learning two systems, toes straps then clipless, is a waste of time as mentioned above. The motion of sliding your foot back to get out of the straps is way more movement than the small ankle twist needed to release most clipless.

One might as well jump in and learn clippless ASAP 

But...... There are always those with a higher fear factor who are just not ready to go clipless. Everyone is different.

The double sided clippless with a platform is a very good choice for most new to clipless because of the reasons I stated. There will always be some folks that it is just not right for. 

The whole point for most new to clipless IS to be able to be clipped in sometimes and just on the platform sometimes. Usually at the scarey spots they will unclip, but one day they are riding along talking and forget about the *scarey spot* and ride it clipped in. Then the realization hits. "I can do this" . It's a great thing to witness this progression. 


I do have some experience with this a side from a few friends. I've been doing beginner women's mtb programs for over 10 years and have seen hundreds transition successfully from flats, to the M545 or similar, to the small clippless.


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*Actually...*



dirtcrab said:


> The exit motion for clipless pedals has nothing to do with "sliding" your foot out. It's an ankle twisting motion that with most pedal designs requires minimal but firm force to disengage the cleat.


Since the mini clip cups the toe of your shoe, when you pull your foot out sideways, your toe tends to catch a bit, on the side of the clip where it cups the toe. Your heel tends to rotate outwards first, before your toe comes free. This is very similar to disengaging a clipless cleat. The action is not exactly the same, but similar.

That is why I say it may be a good preparation for going clipless. You can become accustomed to your heel twisting outwards, so that when you eventually use clipless, disengaging the cleat will feel more natural.

I cannot say for sure that this will help. I will know better when I switch to clipless. If I find that the exit action feels natural and easy, then I think my point will be better supported.

old_dude


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*You did not miss anything...except the point*



DirtGirl said:


> If you have your mind made up that she shouldn't use clipless already, then why are you asking the question...or am I missing something?


Yes, I feel that she should wait. That is my opinion, and yes, my mind is made up.

Whether or not my wife goes clipless is up to her. I expect she will eventually, but I would like to try to convince her to wait until she has more riding experience.

Yes, I would like some support on that, but it seems to be pretty thin.

What I perceive in the responses here, is a plenty of bravado, and not too much common sense.

I don't think I am communicating the issue very well.

We are talking about a woman who is almost 49 years old.

Perhaps, I should rephrase the question in terms that you all can take personally.

How's this?

Would you encourage your mother to start using clipless pedals, when she has less than 5 miles of off-road riding experience on the easiest trails, or would you suggest that she get a bit more practice riding first?

Maybe I have it all wrong.

Go for it mom!

You will fall lots of times and may end up in the hospital, but I think it's a great idea.

No need to prepare in any way, or try to minimize the risk mom, you just have to take your lumps mom.

old_dude


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Maybe you'd get an answer you like more in another forum.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

You're only as old as you feel - you make it sound like your wife is made of glass. Last year I was at a DH bike race where there was a woman racing who was in her mid 60s. I raced a half marathon when I was 25 and got beaten right at the finish by a woman who was 68 and runs 10 miles every day. I've met women in their 70's and 80's skiing at Alta. My best riding buddy is in her mid 40s and rides very well and when I asked her about this yesterday she also immediately recommended your wife try clipless if she feels like it. 

Would I tell my mom to use clipless pedals if she was mountain biking - yes, if she felt she could do it. That's the key - it's a confidence issue more than a skill issue. And then I'd take her out in a grassy field and have her practice over and over again until it became second nature. However my mother hasn't ridden any sort of bike or done any sort of exercise besides walking in probably 25 years so it's pretty hypothetical. 

Clipless pedals have nothing to do with bravado. They're not that difficult. And we ARE telling her to learn it first, on grass, before trying technical trails. You seem to be missing that point. No one is trying to get your wife hurt, we're just trying to make the learning process as easy as possible.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

old_dude said:


> ...No need to prepare in any way, or try to minimize the risk mom, you just have to take your lumps mom.
> 
> old_dude


I sincerely appreciate your desire to keep her safe- it's actually kinda touching.  But being a total klutz myself (massive inner ear infections when younger might explain my lack of balance and extreme talant for falling) and having gone to clipless on my MTB dispite my husband's objections, I can assure you.... IT WILL BE OK.

Once the brain is programmed to flick the heel over, I found clipless much faster to disengage than toe clips and therefore actually safer- no, I'm not kidding. Now that husband has been using them on the road bikes, he's agreed emphatically on this point and will probably be putting them on his MTB one of these days soon.

Besides, if she's a mom she already took risks to bring a few folks into the world that are WAY beyond the hazards she'll face with clipless pedals!!!

P.S. Can she please join us? I want to hear from more 40- something- mountain- biking- moms as role models. <g>


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

old_dude said:


> Yes, I feel that she should wait. That is my opinion, and yes, my mind is made up.
> 
> Whether or not my wife goes clipless is up to her. I expect she will eventually, but I would like to try to convince her to wait until she has more riding experience.
> 
> ...


I'm still confused as to why you posted your original question then?

Sabine


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

old_dude said:


> We are talking about a woman who is almost 49 years old.


This is not at all intended to mock your choice, I just felt this was a good sequeway to do this so that "almost 49" didn't sound like some sort of death knell:

Over 40:
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/laura_sanchez
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/monica_flesher
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/brenda_cranford
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/janet_lowery
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/jessie_hickel
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/laurie_macfarlane
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/valerie_mangin
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/sharon_osgood
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/robyn_jensen
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/andie_mackie
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/marguerite_meyer
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/cathy_boland
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/dana_lookadoo

Over 50:
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/daphne_hodgson
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/angela_brantley
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/betty_jordan
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/becky_smith_

Over 60:
http://www.pbase.com/sdukes/barbara_gicquel

Sabine, Over 20


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*O.K .So that means ...*



Impy said:


> Maybe you'd get an answer you like more in another forum.


You WOULD send your mother out on clipless pedals, after you lead her off-road on a couple K of easy trails?

old_dude


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*That'll be the day.*



verslowrdr said:


> P.S. Can she please join us? I want to hear from more 40- something- mountain- biking- moms as role models. <g>


She hates computers.

old_dude


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*That's simple*



Sabine said:


> I'm still confused as to why you posted your original question then?
> 
> Sabine


The question was, what are your thoughts?

I wanted to hear what you had to say.

I was hoping that someone would encourage some caution, and perhaps define some levels of competency, or skill mile stones, before taking the plunge to clipless.

I have heard what you have to say.

I was quite surprised by the lack of caution, and the disregard for risk.

Having heard your opinions, does not mean I have to agree with them.

You are all certainly entitled to your opinions.

I am also entitled to mine.

Although, based on what I have heard, I cannot suggest to my wife that she master a certain set of mountain biking skills before jumping to clipless, this discussion has been fruitful all the same, since it has allowed me to better understand the mindset of some of the lady mountain bikers.

In the end, my wife will end up doing whatever she wants.

She will take my opinion under advisement, much as I have taken yours. So it all works out in the wash. I ignore your advice. She ignores mine. 

old_dude


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*I think you are reading something into this that is not intended*



Sabine said:


> This is not at all intended to mock your choice, I just felt this was a good sequeway to do this so that "almost 49" didn't sound like some sort of death knell:
> 
> Sabine, Over 20


The issue I have about her age is that the same accident can result in more serious injuries, the older you get. Where a 20 year old may suffer minor injuries, someone who is 48 may suffer much more serious injuries.

Older bodies are more fragile. It is a function of aging. Bones become more brittle, and tendons become less elastic. No amount of thinking young, is going to change that. It affects both men and women.

In addition, often older people do not heal as well. They are not so quick to bounce back.

This is no "death knell." It's just another fact of life, that you need to take into account.

old_dude


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

old_dude said:


> You WOULD send your mother out on clipless pedals, after you lead her off-road on a couple K of easy trails?
> 
> old_dude


My mom DOES drive me mad sometimes. . .

You know, I'd have no problem sending her back out on those easy trails with the clipless pedals (after practicing on grass etc, making sure the clips are adjusted really loose etc etc). I get what you are saying. Heck , there's no guarantee mom would do ok with clips on the harder off road stuff either, though, right?


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## Mtnbikenmama (Apr 1, 2004)

*2 cents from the over 40 crowd*

Hi, 
I'm 44 to be exact, mom of 5. I have been riding almost 2 years now. I recently went clipless, 3 weeks ago to be exact. I waited because when I started out I was really out of shape. I fell a lot at that time. It didn't take much to make me fall over either. Pretty funny thinking back on it, but I knew I would adventually go clipless. I took the plunge after researching pedals etc. I went with the cb mallet c bbecause I wanted the security of the platform for those tricky areas etc. I'm glad I went that way because there are plenty of times now that I clip out, sometimes it may be that I'm just tired or on the verge of bonking and my reflexes are not too sharp. Have I fallen- you betcha! The first week was a dream, I had fantastic rides, and the power increase in the climbs is not at bunch of hot air, it's real! The second week I had 3 falls in 2 days. The first was one of those funny slow motion up hill tip overs- I think I just forgot I was clipped in, the second was a shifting malfunction where the chain came off the front and there I was spinning like a mainiac, then once again timbeerrrrr! The 3rd and I'm sure not final was that same ride when, probably due to fatigue my front wheel slipped into a rut. All in all I think what was hurt most was my pride. Yes I had a couple of beauuutiful bruises nothing to brag about. Unless your wife has osteoporosis or is a wreckless maniac on wheels, she will probably do great. I understand your concern , I worry about my husband when he goes out on one of his "death rides" when its 110 and he's going on the steepest trails in our area. But he is always fine. I guess we all know our limits. Oh and when she does go clipless I definitly suggest some skin protection. I like the Lizard Skin elbow & knee pads. They save on bandages!

Donna


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*I think you have misunderstood*



connie said:


> Honestly, I think if you're trying to learn to mountain bike with the attitude that you cannot accept injuries or falls, I'd tell you not to bother at all. Falling once in a while is just part of the learning curve. Even if you're a fantastic rider, accidents happen. I don't say that to scare anyone off, but the way I see it, it's just the truth and you should know it up front.


I realize that there is risk of injury.

I know, because I have crashed twice already, resulting in minor injuries.

The idea is to reduce that risk, by exercising a degree of caution commensurate with age.

I never imagined, that this simple concept would be so contentious, or so difficult for people to grasp.

old_dude


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## 633 (Feb 10, 2004)

old_dude said:


> I realize that there is risk of injury.
> 
> I know, because I have crashed twice already, resulting in minor injuries.
> 
> ...


Dude, are you just insisting on the last word, or are you really trolling trying to get a rise out of these nice ladies? As a guy who has a wife about to try clipless on her road bike (her MTB never sees a real trail, at least not yet), I've watched the thread here and been amazed by the restraint they've shown.

You asked for opinions, then insisted on arguing with the people who gave them. There's a way to raise your points as questions to ask people to think through the opinions they gave, but you've just sounded stubborn. Maybe you don't realize it, but you do. You were looking for validation, and didn't get it. You could've just said OK and moved on, and never mentioned this discussion to your wife if you were really set on her following your opinion. But you keep coming back insisting you're right. Maybe you are, but you asked for opinions and people took time to respond, and now you're arguing with them that they didn't respond the way you wanted.

I'm not quite as old as you, but I'm not terribly young, either. I've been married 14 years now myself, and mentored a lot of younger married couples. In all those years observing male/female interactions, I've never seen a man get a woman to change her opinion just by insisting more loudly and stubbornly that he's right.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

old_dude said:


> The issue I have about her age is that the same accident can result in more serious injuries, the older you get. Where a 20 year old may suffer minor injuries, someone who is 48 may suffer much more serious injuries.
> 
> old_dude


My friend who is 69 and rides like a madman has taken his fair share of falls. He downhill races sometimes. I have watched him rag-doll with three tumbles off the side of a trail. Made me worry but he was fine.

BTW he rides with platforms. He just doesn't like clips or clipless pedals, can't get used to them. Wishes he had the mechanical advantage of clipless but at 69 I dont think he's going to change. Maybe if only he had tried them when he was younger, say, 50 .


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

old_dude said:


> I was hoping that someone would encourage some caution, and perhaps define some levels of competency, or skill mile stones, before taking the plunge to clipless.





old_dude said:


> Although, based on what I have heard, I cannot suggest to my wife that she master a certain set of mountain biking skills before jumping to clipless, this discussion has been fruitful all the same, since it has allowed me to better understand the mindset of some of the lady mountain bikers.
> 
> old_dude


??? - Did you read my very first post on this thread? Or maybe it threatens your position seeing that it comes from a 40+ rider with kids. My exact advice was to get to a certain skill/comfort level on her regular ride - specifically being able to do most of said ride without dabbing - before making the switch.

Most have us have simply agreed that your plan to go from flats to some weird toe clip to clipless is not all that. No one has encouraged anyone here to take unacceptable risks.



old_dude said:


> I was quite surprised by the lack of caution, and the disregard for risk.
> old_dude


As far as "mindset" - you think we're full of "bravado and lack common sense"? Well, common sense would see us sitting on our a$$es watching our kids and cooking dinner and being mom-like. Maybe some exciting needlepoint or something along those lines.

Disregard for risk - buddy, you're in the WRONG hobby/sport!!! You think it's safe for you wife to go on all those road rides?? I fear being hit by a car doing 60 MPH FAR more than slamming into a tree at a whopping 10 miles an hour - or heaven forbid tipping over because I can't get out of my pedals. One risk I can control - the other I can't. I don't know of any local riders being maimed or killed on our trails.....I know a road rider gets killed nearly every season. Yes - I know people who have had serious injuries - usually riding something they've done a hundred times before without problem. Yes - I ended up in the ER for some stitches and a minor break....husband and kids by my side. Back to work the next day....back on the bike a couple weeks later.

Sounds to me like you're not willing for your wife to take ANY risk on the trail.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

<----over 40, mother, mtb racer

I have a teammate (see previously posted pic in other thread) who is mid 50's. She started mountainbiking just a few years ago. She came to the Ride Like a Girl rides, worked her way from the novice group all the way to the fast group going clippless somewhere as an intermediate rider. Started racing. Now she is lobbing for 50+ womens racing age groups.


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*One more time with feeling...*



Scubee said:


> ??? - Did you read my very first post on this thread? Or maybe it threatens your position seeing that it comes from a 40+ rider with kids. My exact advice was to get to a certain skill/comfort level on her regular ride - specifically being able to do most of said ride without dabbing - before making the switch.
> 
> Most have us have simply agreed that your plan to go from flats to some weird toe clip to clipless is not all that. No one has encouraged anyone here to take unacceptable risks.
> 
> ...


I sort of ignored your first post, since you seem to have not bothered to read what I had to say.

I am saying what I mean, please do not imply an unspoken context that does not exist, or give other meaning to what I am saying.

I have said nothing about using CLIPS, "deathtraps". If you wish to comment, perhaps you should read what you are commenting about. I would NOT use CLIPS and would NOT recommend them to anyone.

There seems to be a real communications disconnect here.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT ANYONE USE CLIPS OR STRAPS.

BREAKER...BREAKER...DO YOU COPY?

MINI CLIPS, M.I.M.I. CLIPS, are not the same thing as CLIPS. Clips have straps, Clips are exited by pulling your foot back. Clips cover your foot.

Mini clips have no straps. Mini clips are exited without any difficulty. You just put your foot down, without training and without thinking about it. In the procees, your heel tends often to twist outwards, since your toe catches momentarily on the bit of the mini clip that cups the outside of your shoe toe. It is hardly noticeable, but does, to some degree, immitate the twist used to exit clipless pedals.

When using mini clips, the only learning involved is learning to put your foot on the right side of the pedal. That is it. There is NO LEARNING TWO SYSTEMS. Putting your foot on the right side of a pedal is NOT A whole SYSTEM to be learned.

Mini clips are just flats with a foot positioning guide that cups only the toe of your shoe, and helps keep you foot in place. Take a good look at the picture I attached. I attached it for a reason. Sorry, if it is a bit blurry. I forgot to set the lens to macro. Still, the design is clear enough.

Why is this so hard to understand? Do I have to make a movie to demonstrate? A photo does not seem to help. Maybe, if you read it a couple times, it will sink in. Is there another language that would suit people better, other than plain English?

There appears to be a kneejerk reaction happening here, to anything that remotely resembles clips. If people want to shove their heads up their a$$es, sobeit. Enjoy the view.

As far as sensible mom's sitting on their collective a$$.

I was the one who bought my wife her mountain bike. I surprised her with it, when she started her vacation last summer. She did not ask for it, or expect it. I did not buy it for her to look at.

I bought her the same bike, that I bought myself. When I later upgraded my bike, I upgraded hers. I did not get her something less than I would use myself, like some guys I know.

I invite her to ride. I would be happy to see her ride more often, and on more challenging trails, even if she gets the odd ouch, like me. That way, she will ride with me and friends, so we can share the experience.

I also bought her a kayak, because she likes to paddle. It is the same kayak that I have. She got hers first. I took up kayaking, for exercise, but also to share the experience with her and our friends, who also paddle.

I built a complete gym in our basement where she works out three times a week, with her neighborhood girlfriends. Her arms are bigger than many guys, and it aint flab.

No needlepoint, get it?. She wouldn't sew a button to save her life.

I put in a pool because she likes to swim, and yes it has a diving board.

She plays soccer in a ladies masters league, and has won the Championship several times over the years.

She belongs to a Dragonboat racing team, sponsored by a beer company. Her team placed third for all ladies, at a recent national competition. Her mixed team came second in the over forty class.

The person who posted all those links about older women competing, and spouted some garbage about age and "death knell" are you getting any of this?

She is an expert skier, and she has the same skis that I use, Atomic 9.18. We just got back from a ski trip to Lake Tahoe where she skied many double blacks. She did full cartwheels on a wipeout at Kirkwood, skiing the steeps. She brusied and scraped her arm on the granualar snow. I had to repair her ski boot.

I did not have a bird, because she got a little hurt, but I was there to help.

I am getting through yet?

YOU implied that I am coddling my wife and want zero risk. You are not the only one. Do not invent a context for me that does not exist. Do not interpret my words to mean other than what they say.

I do not control my wife. She does pretty much whatever she wants.

When she has bothered to ask me, if I mind her doing something, I cannot recall ever saying that I mind. My response is always, go for it. I do not even know what would happen if I said, "No. Don't do it." I never have.

She mentioned in passing, one Firday evening this winter, that she had been invited by a friend to ski at Tremblant for the weekend, but was not going, because she wasn't going to leave me alone with the kids, to go skiing. I told her she was nuts, and to get out of here. I had to argue with her, to get her to leave. (the kids are 6'3" and 6'1")

If she decides to go clipless, I may caution her and give her my opinion, but if she wants to go ahead, that is up to her. I am not going to try and stop her.

All those people telling me to "let her", ARE WE COMMUNICATING YET? What "let her"? Again, some idiotic invented context that does not exist. What's with you people?

All of this discussion is only about preparing for a brief moment, when I make a suggestion to her, and give her my opinion. I am gathering information. Some is good, and some I don't think is so good. Practicing on grass was good, maybe a bit obvious.

From my perspective, I realize there is risk, but I feel that the risk can be mitigated by some degree of preparation and precaution. I am just talking about taking reasonable risk mitigation measures. Why get hurt unnecessarily? There is no need to be reckless.

For some strange reason, I think, riding a couple K on the easiest XC trails, and then going out and getting clipless pedals, without even having learned to get your weight back going down hill, and without having learned how to climb steep inclines, or how to handle trail obstacles, dodge tight trees, or how to even simply stand on your pedals, is reckless.

I think it is particularly reckless for someone who is 49, man or woman. I suggest you become familiar with advanced glycosylation endproducts A.G.E., and how they affect your body as you age. It does not matter how fit you are, A.G.E. formation has nothing to do with fitness. (FYI diabetes makes it worse) It is A.G.E. formation that brings increased risk of injury with age. I suggest you find out, what A.G.E. formation does to your muscles, tendons, cartilage, and every bit of your body from head to toe, even your teeth.

So, that is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. Are you implying that I am not entitled to my opinion? Everyone else seems to have theirs and is sticking to their own opinion.

I did not post to get anyone to change my mind.

Again, I have people inventing a context for me, and then getting upset with me over their own little make believe world, in their own heads. Some of you people are un-frigging-believable.

In your second post, you had this to say:
-------------------------------------------
I was a new mtb'r at age 39. I only rode offroad when I started. I knew I wanted to go clipless but I decided to set a goal for myself first. My goal was to be able to ride most of my regular ride without dabbing (putting a foot down) before going clipless. The first month it seemed my feet were on the ground as much as off. It took about 3 months of riding 3 times a week on the same 5 miles of trails before I reached my goal.

Knowing that I could do most of my ride without dabbing gave me the confidence to be clipped in. Also, I knew it was time to clip in when I started hitting trail sections so fast that a couple of times my feet (yes, both of them) came off the pedals in the rough stuff. No fun!

Although everyone is different, I would suggest she (and you) consider this method.
--------------------------------------------

Now, that sounds very reasonable to me. That is exactly the sort of precaution, that I feel is required. Thank-you. I mean it, sincerely.

The only variant, that I would add, is to use mini clips during this time, since I think they are a good preparation for going clipless, and will keep her shins from getting wacked. I use them, and my shins have been pristine since I started, without shin guards thank-you.
Before mini clips, my shins and calves were covered in scabs.

If that seems unreasonable to you, or anyone else, too bad. I really don't care. I have first hand experience with them. Some of the respondents here do not seem to even know what there are, and seem unwilling learn, even when I include a picture. Like I said, there appears to be some kneejerk, head up the a$$, reaction to anything resembling clips. Enjoy the view.

In that second post of yours, you seem to speak with the voice of reason. However, the majority of responses do not seem, to me, to be as reasonable. So, when I say that I see much bravado and little common sense, this does not apply to your second post, and may not apply to every single post here.

To this point, at no time have I said that I have been offended by anyone's opinion. I figure everyone is entitled to one. I also thank everyone who responded. I may not agree, but I am happy to listen.

old_dude


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

old_dude said:


> The question was, what are your thoughts?
> 
> I wanted to hear what you had to say.
> 
> ...


Got it. You are just protecting her. By all means do that, its sweet. Keep her safe.

Oh and by the way, you don't let her get in a car, do you?

Sabine, statistician to the stars


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Lmao!!*

You're really a trip, old dude. So, have you mentioned to your wife that all us reckless women think she should go clipless and kill herself?

And what's with the insults? You say everyone is entitled to their opinion, but then just because you've failed to communicate your opinions effectivley, you say others have their heads up their asses? How rich.

Spike


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## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*Old Dude (probably younger than me)*

First: If the "mini-clips" are such a perfect transition from flats to clipless, why don't you patent the idea and market the heck out of them? You already have a lovely photo to use in your brochure. If you aren't interested, I am.

Second, you obviously have no compunction about spending money freely on nice quality gear for your recreational pursuits. I can't for the life of me understand why someone with your means and your concerns wouldn't immediately purchase knee/shin protectors, elbow protectors, a full-face helmet and a "roost" (chest) protector, for you and your wife.

I do a variety of types of trail riding, and at 54 years of age it IS true that it is a bit easier to be injured, and healing is slower. I wear the protective gear mentioned above on every ride, even simple cross country. If I remember correctly you said you have crashed twice. On which ride? I fall two or three times on most rides. I don't consider myself reckless, but I have had some whoppers for wrecks, and walked away in one piece because of the protective gear.It is neither cumbersome nor too hot (and I ride in the desert).

Oh yes, I use Eggbeater and Shimano SPD clipless, and have since my third time on a mountain bike.


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

old_dude said:


> I sort of ignored your first post, since you seem to have not bothered to read what I had to say.
> 
> In your second post, you had this to say:
> -------------------------------------------
> ...


No, YOU didn't bother to read what I had to say - The post you liked (sorta) WAS my FIRST post! 3 days ago. But in your later posts you kept saying over and over how no one had given you any good suggestions when there were many good suggestions - just not what you wanted to hear.

The second post was because I had been reading what you had to say to everyone else - and you came off as some macho, chauvinist bent on holding his old lady back simply because she was old and female or wanted to take more risk than you. Maybe you're not, but I'm obviously not the only one who thought that's what they were hearing in your posts. Women who participate in male-dominated areas are particularly sensitive to any insinuation that they can't or shouldn't do something based on their femaleness. All of your "mom" talk strongly suggested attitude.

Please excuse my misunderstanding your MINI clips....still if she's riding easy trails without clips what's wrong with riding easy trails with clips? It doesn't seem to me that she is going to clip into new pedals and go out on the next ride to tackle trail obstacles. By the time she works up to all those inclines, downhills, tight trees and logpiles that you think she should fall over on before risking falling over standing still on new pedals, she will have mastered or discarded her new pedals.

And - I may be wrong on this but I don't think I am - you stated she was "fit". You never stated that she has any other health problems like diabetes or renal failure or arthritis or heart disease or anything besides being 48 years old and a mom. If she does then you left out an ESSENTIAL fact that may have had an effect on some of the advice you got as well as made people a little more sympathetic to your perceived overprotectiveness. If she doesn't then who gives a [email protected] about A.G.E? Your body will tell you what your limits are whether you know it's caused by A.G.E. or not. So before lecturing me about researching how A.G.E. would effect someone make sure you include that you are concerned about that little fact. It would've been taken into consideration but would not have changed my first suggestion.

You asked for and got opinions. You have stood steadfast in your opinion. I can respect that. Sorry if you feel misunderstood - sincerely.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Some interesting related threads:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=18917

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=18557


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## MrBIG (Apr 23, 2004)

*Going clipless for the faint of heart*

Re: My beginner wife wants to go clipless

Kudos on her! Clipless is the only way to fly!

I agree with the replies that suggest your wife should "just do it". However, let me make a suggestion I learned in the bar of the heartbreak hotel lounge.

A friend of mine wanted his girlfriend to ride with us. He bought very nice bikes, fitted them with clipless pedals, and off we went on our first ride together. It was a blast,... for him and me. It was a total disaster for her. One ride, about 4 hard falls and it was over for her. She had not learned to unclip and "just doing it" was not the best way for her to learn. She was bruised, scratched and bleeding and she never got on the bike again. EVER!!

My suggestion: since "unclipping", as I will call it, is an acquired skill, take her to soft grassy area and have her practice clipping in, riding for a short distance, then slowing to a stop, at which point she is to unclip and stand over her bike. Repeat as necessary until she feels OK about unclipping. If she fails to unclip and falls, the grass be be much more forgiving than almost any trail that you may ride. Plus, on trails you usually don't get to pick your "unclip point". She will not get scratched up or hurt. She will also get more comfortable with clipping in when taking off from a stop.

Once she has performed this exersize enough times to feel comfortable with clipping in and unclipping, take her riding.

You may choose to be somewhat gentle for the first few rides, of course.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

MrBIG, your moniker makes me laugh. Does your girlfriend laugh too??? 

The example of your friend doesn't fit in this case. Bet that girlfriend wasn't riding around for a year and saying, "I want to try clipless." Sounds like your friend and old_dude both know what's best for the little ladies though.

I think old_dude should throw away those stupid looking mini-clips. We all know who wears the pants in that family. It's his wife!!! 

Hey, old_dude! With this new post of mine, what category would you put me in?

A. Women with lots of bravado (on the internet)
B. Women with no common sense
C. [A new obnoxious category]



MrBIG said:


> You may choose to be somewhat gentle for the first few rides, of course.


Now what does this mean?

Jeez. I'm not being very nice this morning. Sorry, grrls. I need to hit the dirt.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

MrBIG said:


> My suggestion: since "unclipping", as I will call it, is an acquired skill, take her to soft grassy area and have her practice clipping in, riding for a short distance, then slowing to a stop, at which point she is to unclip and stand over her bike. Repeat as necessary until she feels OK about unclipping. If she fails to unclip and falls, the grass be be much more forgiving than almost any trail that you may ride. Plus, on trails you usually don't get to pick your "unclip point". She will not get scratched up or hurt. She will also get more comfortable with clipping in when taking off from a stop.


I've only said this every time I posted in this thread.... But maybe he'll actually read it since a guy posted it this time...


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

old_dude said:


> when you get old, you pee when you giggle


Believe it or not, I think old_dude is right. His thorough knowledge of mini things and of the fragility of life has been very eye opening.

See, he is right. Old people are fragile. They should be protected, not encouraged. They should be covered in nerf...or maybe bubble wrap.

My grandmother and I went riding around her neighborhood last night. I can't believe my own bravado let her put herself in that kind of danger. For her own protection, I'm going to get her stuffed.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

[email protected] it, Catzilla! You had me laughing so hard... everyone around me KNOWS I'm not really working!


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

I think that people get jittery at the thought of their feet being ATTACHED to the bike. My experience with clipless pedals is that I come off of them just as fast as flat pedals if I'm needing to be off my bike. Never have I crashed and still be attached, never have I had to put my foot down and not been able to. I've always used Frogs, which I know don't "hold" the same way as some other, you could say, more agressive styles. You naturally take your foot out to the side when you try to dismount (at least you do if your seat is set at the right hight) and thus unclipping. When hearing beginners talk about clipless it's like they are only meant for expert or experienced riders. My shorts get caught on my seat more than my shoes caught on my pedals.


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## MrBIG (Apr 23, 2004)

*I made a mistake, however...*

I made a mistake. I did not carefully read the contents of the the "wants to go clipless" thread and posted a reply that seemed to ignore or negate the validity of connie's replies.

connie's replies were well thought out and right on the mark. (I have apologized privately to her for this, BTW.)

However, as I read the entire thread (a self-imposed penance, of sorts) I got to the part where old_dude finally told us that he really didn't care what we said, and that he had already made up his mind.

What's up with that?

I took the theme of the thread very seriously (even in my haphazard first read), so I feel somewhat manipulated. Actually, a whole lot manipulated.

If I am out-of-line here, let me know, but it just rubs me "a bit" wrong. Are we here for sharing real info and having good fun, or for burning up precious time with dead-ends?

I understand the need for, and enjoy very much, the interpersonal banter that I see on the forum. So I don't want to make "serious stuff only" some flame of my own against old_dude. But I would ask for a little respect as well.

Oh, and in reply to JustDoIt, my girlfriend doesn't laugh about my nomme de guerre because she doesn't understand a word that I say to her. Not in the man/woman "doesn't understand" sense, but because some of my "friends" told her that I am 95% fluff and 5% real, so she just randomly ignores 95% of what I say. She misses so much good stuff! If she only knew.


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

MrBIG, let's cut the charades. I know you  Not in the biblical sense, of course!! I'm going out of town this weekend, but I'll be back Sunday night. Do you want to get together for a ride next week? Mon at lunch time or Tues after work? You pick the day, I'll pick the trail. No whining though. Did you hear my new bike is fast? You can email/PM your response. Later, my friend.

p.s. You totally deserved the subtle little spanking Connie gave you!


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

MrBIG said:


> However, as I read the entire thread (a self-imposed penance, of sorts) I got to the part where old_dude finally told us that he really didn't care what we said, and that he had already made up his mind.
> 
> What's up with that?
> 
> ...


you are not out of line.

old_dude is on my ignore list. i hate being manipulated or insulted, and as i see it he has insulted all of us in this thread. he does not have the right to waste anymore of my time. he and deepwalletdave can both go jump in a lake.

Rita


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

*Injury Image - I wasn't even clipped in!*

Talk about mountain biking being dangerous, check out what I did to my leg tonight! In addition to not being clipped in at the time&#8230; I wasn't even riding the [email protected] thing,. I turned my back for a moment and it attacked me out of nowhere while I was working on it in the garage.

I've been riding clipless pedals for 3+ years and this is the second worst injury I've had (the worst would be the acquisition of that third areola I mentioned in a different post). Of course I am probably setting myself up for a big crash on my Noble Canyon ride tomorrow&#8230; but still, I couldn't resist pointing the inherent dangers of breathing oxygen!

P.S. No comments about the white running socks, I was wrenching after hours&#8230; not riding at the time.


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## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Three comments:

Sorry about your leg.

That's nice calf definition.

What are you doing still wearing your lycra young lady?


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## Bill B (Apr 18, 2004)

*Clip her in !*



old_dude said:


> My 48 year old beginner wife, wants clipless pedals and shoes for her MTB.
> 
> She rides mostly on the road and when she ventures offroad, she struggles to get through simple terrain and I have to wait for her to catch up all the time.
> 
> ...


Clip her in and push her down the trail!


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

*ROTFLMAO! - Thank you!*



Bill B said:


> Clip her in and push her down the trail!


Almost spit diet coke out my nose!! Then, when I read you signature it all made sense! Do you espouse "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"? RIde On!


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

Ghisallo said:


> Three comments:
> 
> Sorry about your leg.
> 
> ...


Those calves are pure show, a genetic anomaly. They're always the first thing to cramp up on an epic ride. Although that nice little line of definition up by the hamstring... I attribute that to the single speed. 

As far as the lycra goes, I was moving the new seat over to a different bike, hence I was wearing them for test riding purposes.


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> As far as the lycra goes, I was moving the new seat over to a different bike, hence I was wearing them for test riding purposes.


Whew..that's a relief. I was about to call out a serious chamois violation. But that is an acceptable excuse, so you are exonerated.

Sabine


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## MallieD (Apr 11, 2004)

*I took your advice Connie!*

Today was my first day clipping in and out. First few minutes were spent on the front lawn...then we went to a nearby school that has a nice big grassy play area as well as some short rooty drops from the schoolgrounds to the playground. Didn't fall once during my trial and error period. Just made sure to clip in and out often and really got a feel for how it worked.

That's not to say I never fell. About five minutes after testing the front lawn I rolled up to my husband in the driveway...concrete...and spaz that I am, completely forgot I had to twist foot outward to set my foot down. Down I went...and now have two nice knee and elbow scrapes to go with my bruises. But it's part and parcel...at least I think so.

I was thrilled with the way I could feel an increased sense of control while clipped in. It will make any falls I take worthwhile, as all my falls have been, as I increased my skills and my confort level to try new things.

Sound advice and if you're interested I'll let you know how my first clipped in trail ride goes when I'm done tomorrow!


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

MallieD said:


> Today was my first day clipping in and out. ...
> 
> Sound advice and if you're interested I'll let you know how my first clipped in trail ride goes when I'm done tomorrow!


Congrats on your first day of clipless., I totally remember my first day and I was freaked but did the grass thing and completely flat dirt bike trails and it went fine! The first day on more technical dirt I remember too - the first ride was a little unnerving but I did a relatively easy trail and started getting the hang of it.

I swear now, I freak if I'm not clipped in. Especially over rocky technical stuff, especially pedalling UP technical rocky stuff. Other wise I'd just fly off the bike. Instead the bike and I bounce around as a unit.

It amazes me how downhill folks do the things they do on platforms. I guess some of you are clipped in?


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

No offense taken! I just thought it would be pretty ironic if OldDude suddenly paid attention to the concept of practicing on the grass all of the sudden.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

MallieD said:


> That's not to say I never fell. About five minutes after testing the front lawn I rolled up to my husband in the driveway...concrete...and spaz that I am, completely forgot I had to twist foot outward to set my foot down. Down I went...and now have two nice knee and elbow scrapes to go with my bruises. But it's part and parcel...at least I think so.


Sounds about right. I thought I had it on my first day and ended up making a wild lunge at a fencepost mid-fall to save myself from flopping over. My husband almost fell over laughing... It's that first time you're distracted, stopping and it just isn't second nature yet. Most people do it a few times. I posted the story of my friend testing out her new pedals before a group ride - she was cruising the parking lot declaring clipless pedals to be so easy - "What's the big deal?" and because she was talking she forgot to unclip as she stopped and flopped over. Luckily she was unharmed (aside from her ego...  )

Anyway, they definitely make you feel more like you're one with your bike. Sounds like you're enjoying the benefits already!


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## old_dude (Jan 27, 2004)

*Hate to prolong this useless discussion...but*



633 said:


> Dude, are you just insisting on the last word, or are you really trolling trying to get a rise out of these nice ladies? As a guy who has a wife about to try clipless on her road bike (her MTB never sees a real trail, at least not yet), I've watched the thread here and been amazed by the restraint they've shown.
> 
> You asked for opinions, then insisted on arguing with the people who gave them. There's a way to raise your points as questions to ask people to think through the opinions they gave, but you've just sounded stubborn. Maybe you don't realize it, but you do. You were looking for validation, and didn't get it. You could've just said OK and moved on, and never mentioned this discussion to your wife if you were really set on her following your opinion. But you keep coming back insisting you're right. Maybe you are, but you asked for opinions and people took time to respond, and now you're arguing with them that they didn't respond the way you wanted.
> 
> I'm not quite as old as you, but I'm not terribly young, either. I've been married 14 years now myself, and mentored a lot of younger married couples. In all those years observing male/female interactions, I've never seen a man get a woman to change her opinion just by insisting more loudly and stubbornly that he's right.


What I object to, is when people invent an unflattering context for me, and then accuse me based on what exists only in their warped minds. Pardon me if I get pissed when someone automatically assumes the worst about me and then starts badgering me based only on their own creepy attitude. (Nice ladies?)

You have mentored couples? Well then you should be familiar with the term "mind reading". You should also be aware that is objectionable behaviour, meaning warranting objection. Ergo I object. You will not verbally abuse me and not have me object.

I am sure you would not be happy if I hit you and injured you. You would object. This verbal abuse injures my reputation, which may be even more damaging, since you can heal from a black eye without thinking. Fixing a reputation is much more difficult.

Even after I complained about this abuse, I am still getting it. Too bad I can't call the police and have them arrested.

I also object to people here, who are exaggerating my concern about physical injury. I have had my left a ACL severed twice, my pettilar tendon torn, severed my achillies tendon, torn a medial collateral, suffered several dislocations, and much more, all in my forties. Needless to say, I went through alot of physio and down time. I have some knowledge and experience with injury. I also know that many of those injuries are a result of pushing an old body too hard and of too much risk taking. Gee, maybe I learned something. They say you get wiser with age. Could it be due to experience?

I have also extensively researched the effects of aging on the human body. Even when I point out scientific fact, I still get BS attitude.

You want to talk about insult, that is an insult and it has been expressed by more than one of the "ladies" here. That is also verbally abusive.

I hate to burst you bubble ladies, but you are going to grow old and die, and in the process you will become more frail. No amount of fitness is going to change that.

You may lesson the risk of injury by staying stronger, more co-ordinated, and by sustaining better stamina than you might otherwise have, to avoid injury, but you are still going to be more frail. Those wrinkles and age spots on your face are not just a sign of aging skin. The same thing that is causing the deterioration of your skin affects every part of your body. Nothing is spared. You just see what's on the outside.

Not only that, but your hormones levels drop as you age, affecting your bone density and your ability to heal fast. It's a fact of life. Get over it. Don't shoot the messanger, and if you do, don't be surprised if he shoots back.

My concern is only to take some small precautions to compensate for the increasing frailty that comes with aging. It is just a matter of reducing the risk to be comparable to the risks taken by someone younger, not to eliminate risk all together. This is something that I have expressed in this thread clearly and yet I continue to reap verbal abuse.

In addition, I was upset that I presented information on "mini clips" and even included a picture, only to have people who have never used them, and who don't even know what they are, trying to give me advice about them, based on what they know about clips, and in the process stating false things about them.

I was not arguing with them, I was correcting their false statements.

How would you feel if you brought low fat - low sugar muffins to a party, and had everyone bad mouthing the sugar and fat in your unhealthy muffins, even when you have a sign on them saying low fat - low sugar, and even after you explain they are low fat and low sugar? Do you think you might try again to explain again, "No they are low fat and low sugar."

Would you be arguing?

Then, if they continue on about the fat and sugar do you think you might pointout the sign again, or offer to show the recipe. After that fails do you think you might feel hurt or angry? 
Everyone wants to eat the stuff everybody else brought, but they turn their nose up at your offering, even though they mistakenly think is is something that it is not, due to a refusal to comprehend.

If you know enough about clips to describe their shortcomings for moutain biking, then you know enough to see that the picture I included is a picture of something else. Then when you have your error explained and still continue on negatively about clips, you can excuse me for feeling hurt and angry that my small offering is being rejected and for the wrong reasons.

Further, I would say that if someone shows you a picture of one thing and you insist that it is a picture of something else, and give advice about the wrong thing, even after having it explained to you, then you have your head up your a$$, in other words, you are only seeing what you want to see.

It is bad enough that I have to put up with the constant BS of people inventing unflattering context for me, telling me about CLIPS instead of MINI CLIPs, sarcastic insults about my concern for injury and how I treat my wife, but now I get to suffer global labeling as well.

I am not "trolling".

If you truly mentored couples, then you would also know that global labeling is also objectionable conduct. It is also verbally abusive. Implying that I am a troll is global labeling. It is abusive. You can't deal with logic so you start name calling.

If you think the "ladies" have been showing considerable restraint, you have no I dea how many times I have rewritten some of these notes to mitigate the expression of my anger, and frustration, at this onslaught of verbal personal abuse. Then you have the nerve to tell me that I am misbehaving.

One of the ladies even outright accused everyone of of beating up on me. Get a clue.

That was clearly not enough to stop the feeding frenzy.

So, now when you mention "nice ladies", pardon me if I disagree.

When I complain, do I get appologies? No! I get more abuse! Apparently, I am supposed to sit back and take it. Too bad I can't call the police like an abused woman. I feel like a woman who got gang raped and is told it was her fault because of the way she dressed.

Is that what you would tell a gang rape victim?

How do you like that for invented context? I have put you in the context of blaming an abused woman for her own rape. Does that make you feel good. Do you think that helps your reputation?

This is what I have been dealing with here, along with various insults, and pontification about clips, intended to set me straight, when I never even mentioned clips.

Unlike some abused women, I know when it is time to get out.

At this point, I am sorry I ever posted in this SNAKE PIT (There's a global label for you lot.), and will never come back, not even to lurk. As far as I am concerned this discussion forum no longer exists.

I can now understand why the American divorce rate is so high. If that is how you treat your men, I am surprised they ever marry you in the first place. They must be extremely desperate. (Now, There's an insult for you bunch.) As of right now I declare myself divorced from you abusive people.

One more thing. Yes, I am stubborn. I stubbornly refuse to put up with this [email protected]

old_dude has left the building


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant. 

Vis-a-Vis! etc. etc. etc...


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

old_dude said:


> At this point, I am sorry I ever posted in this SNAKE PIT (There's a global label for you lot.), and will never come back, not even to lurk. As far as I am concerned this discussion forum no longer exists.


Yes. We will die. Sooner than many of us want to. Thats why we want your wifey poo to take risks with us. I am going to kidnap her and take her on the most joyous clipless ride. She will laugh at herself as she falls over in the most ungraceful of ways. Then she will fly down the hill with abandon, feet firmly clipped in. Later that evening, she will tell you she's not in the mood because she bruised herself a bit in a crash. Then she will take a very long bath with the door closed and fall asleep with a smile on her face.

Hissss....spit..!

I think i would want to be a cobra. Or that green snake with the red eyes. I have no idea which that one is, but yeah, I want to be that one.

Sssssssssabine


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## JustDoIt (Feb 2, 2004)

old_dude, you still around? I saw that last post of yours.

Hey, I apologize if I made you feel hurt or angry with my 3rd post on this thread. I initially was all for discussing... then when I saw MrBIG enter the fray, well, I... ahh.. uhh.. got like all excited and couldn't control myself... because I know the background on his choice of moniker (and it IS a hilarious story, but I won't go there). And I was hoping he'd throw a little fluff my way... you just got caught in the crossfire. I think a lot of us are new to this way of communicating, and stuff gets _lost_ sometimes. I thought MrBIG might flame me. I didn't expect him to cower over an imagined insult from Connie! Some guys are like that. I should've thought more carefully about your feelings too. Just playing, that's all. Don't take it too personally or seriously. It'll be better for your health.

Relax, dude. It's cool.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

My signature on another BB:

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow, what a Ride!"

No one here told anyone to do anything they weren't personally comfortable with, but the way I and many others here see it, taking risks and challenging yourself is part of a full life. I've injured myself plenty too - ACL recon, other knee surgery, enormous hematomas, stitches... but to me - the down time and pain suffered was absolutely worth the enjoyment I got out of my endeavors. I have no regrets. I know many people don't agree with me on this and that's fine. It's your own life - make your own decisions.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, we took more verbal abuse from you than you did from us.


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## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*And another one bites the dust...*

old_dude has left the building[/QUOTE]

First it was DeepWaterDave, now old_dude. You "nice ladies" just chew 'em up and spit 'em out in pieces like those machines the tree trimming companies use to make sawdust out of tree limbs.



old_dude said:


> I have had my left a ACL severed twice, my pettilar tendon torn, severed my achillies tendon, torn a medial collateral, suffered several dislocations, and much more, all in my forties.
> 
> You'd think that somebody who had survived all that would have a little bit thicker skin. Sounds like his 40s were a rough patch for old_dude.
> 
> ...


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Ok I'm mad. Not because old dude has left the building - I'm actaully relieved , because I'm usually pretty easy going and non-confrontational. But, because he lobbed all that sh!t at us (women) in his last post with no opportunity for rebuttal then split, I'm angry.

This is my rebuttal, even though he will never see it.

I never saw an attempt on your part to understand any of OUR points of view. Only attacks because we didn't like YOUR point of view. You came into this "discussion" with your mind made up, (as well as into the General discussion forum ), that mini clips are the safest and best way to ride. I'm sure that your wife disagreed and that fight prompted the initial post.

Don't give me a line about "the effects of aging on the human body". I know more about aging and the effects of trauma and age than you ever will. I regularly ride with riders older than you are who have their own medical concerns (one has osteoporosis for crying out loud) yet they take their risks and live life the way they want to and don't make excuses about it. Even my friend who prefers to ride with platforms can understand the mechanical advantages of clipless, although he chooses not to use them. He certainly doesn't try and convince us that WE are making the wrong choice.

You wrote:_I can now understand why the American divorce rate is so high. If that is how you treat your men, I am surprised they ever marry you in the first place. They must be extremely desperate_
Good luck with YOUR marriage, dude. Don't worry about our relationships. Where ever you are from, I must assume that the wives are not allowed to disagree with the husbands. I just feel sorry for your wife, and I hope she gets her clipless pedals and hammers away from you as fast as she can.

/rant off
I feel better now


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## MallieD (Apr 11, 2004)

*even though the coward who started the whole mess won't see it...*

I applaud you for another well thought out, rational and inspiring argument.

Connie...not ignoring your great post either. Another thought provoking reply.


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Oh, he'll see your reply!*



Impy said:


> Ok I'm mad. ... because he lobbed all that sh!t at us (women) in his last post with no opportunity for rebuttal then split, I'm angry.
> 
> This is my rebuttal, even though he will never see it.


Anybody who is really going to go, would have just gone away, without the "I'm leaving in a huff" final post. It is classic! Does anybody remember BikinCO's "goodbye Passion" post? It was hilarious! And he came back, not only to lurk, but to eventually post again. I doubt old dude will ever post in here again, but I seriously doubt he will be able to resist taking a peek back at this thread again. Look how long he kept replying to it!

Spike


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## mward (Apr 7, 2004)

Your wife is a grown woman, if she wants to try clipless, let her. Criminy. My fiance rode offroad ONCE and after dropping her like a hot rock on climbs she went clipless. Sure, she fell over, yes she got some bruises, but she races with them now, and she hasn't been riding that long, offroad less than a year, and if you count the winter of not riding, even less than that. 

The 'she struggles through terrain and I have to wait" comment appears as though maybe you're less than patient with her beginnerness. Dude, appreciate the blessing of her riding with you as much as possible and don't fret about waiting. I have a zillion friends who don't get to wait on their wives and make no bones about wishing they could.


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## onepivot (Jan 14, 2004)

*Oops-skip this post and read the next....*

oops - posted under my husband's user name......trying to change it


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

mward said:


> Your wife is a grown woman, if she wants to try clipless, let her. Criminy. My fiance rode offroad ONCE and after dropping her like a hot rock on climbs she went clipless. Sure, she fell over, yes she got some bruises, but she races with them now, and she hasn't been riding that long, offroad less than a year, and if you count the winter of not riding, even less than that.
> 
> The 'she struggles through terrain and I have to wait" comment appears as though maybe you're less than patient with her beginnerness. Dude, appreciate the blessing of her riding with you as much as possible and don't fret about waiting. I have a zillion friends who don't get to wait on their wives and make no bones about wishing they could.


Thanks for validating the "vibe" every single woman on this forum picked up in old_dude's original post - I thought we were kind and helpful to start with and tried not to make anything of it at first until he further validated it in his subsequent posts. After that, I think most of us only argued our point and didn't go into attack mode until he began insulting our intelligence (bravado and lacking common sense come to mind). I guess coming from women that makes us snakes. Coming from a guy it is probably just good verbal jousting  It's good to know that a guy recognized that too!

By the way - my husband and I got our first ride at Landahl at the festival last month.....great trails! Can't wait to go back. It's ~ 6 hours away, but I have family nearby and can mix riding new trail with family visits.

Happy Trails.

(Gratuitous troll: any commentssss, old dude? I noticsssed you didn't have much to argue in my lasssst posssst....I musssst not be worthy.)


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## The Berryman (Mar 19, 2004)

old_dude said:


> How would you feel if you brought low fat - low sugar muffins to a party, and had everyone bad mouthing the sugar and fat in your unhealthy muffins, even when you have a sign on them saying low fat - low sugar, and even after you explain they are low fat and low sugar? Do you think you might try again to explain again, "No they are low fat and low sugar."


Mmmm...Muffins...










Even better...LOW FAT Muffins (swimsuit season is rapidly approaching)

I hope Old Dude returns so that he can post the recipie for those muffins.


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## mward (Apr 7, 2004)

old_dude said:


> I also object to people here, who are exaggerating my concern about physical injury. I have had my left a ACL severed twice, my pettilar tendon torn, severed my achillies tendon, torn a medial collateral, suffered several dislocations, and much more, all in my forties. Needless to say, I went through alot of physio and down time. I have some knowledge and experience with injury. I also know that many of those injuries are a result of pushing an old body too hard and of too much risk taking. Gee, maybe I learned something. They say you get wiser with age. Could it be due to experience?


Uncoordinated, obviously.



> I hate to burst you bubble ladies, but you are going to grow old and die, and in the process you will become more frail. No amount of fitness is going to change that.


More haranging snipped...

This guy sounds like someone who is determined to get OLD and bring everyone with him that he can!



> So, now when you mention "nice ladies", pardon me if I disagree.


Love that veiled insult there, he's the master of subtlety. Oh, I bet you ladies are all harpooned to death!!



> When I complain, do I get appologies? No! I get more abuse! Apparently, I am supposed to sit back and take it.


The squeaky wheel gets replaced. When you behave like a boorish pig, and get called on it, yes, you should take it like a man. You keep referring to yourself as one but I see more spine in the ladies in this forum than in you.



> Unlike some abused women, I know when it is time to get out.


Oh aren't you smart!!



> At this point, I am sorry I ever posted in this SNAKE PIT (There's a global label for you lot.), and will never come back, not even to lurk. As far as I am concerned this discussion forum no longer exists.


This section of the forum is far more civilized and enjoyable than many parts of the rest of the forum. Snake pit is .. well, hilarious. Shark maybe, that would be me. I haven't been in on a good flaming in a while, trying to restrain myself, but blood is in the water now and it's really hard to resist such an obvious target.



> I can now understand why the American divorce rate is so high. If that is how you treat your men, I am surprised they ever marry you in the first place. They must be extremely desperate. (Now, There's an insult for you bunch.) As of right now I declare myself divorced from you abusive people.


I love it when Canadians start slamming America. Ad Homoniem, attacking the person. Last resort of someone who has lost an argument and likely knows it. He claims he'll never be back but I'd bet dollars to donuts he's reading this.

Scubee I'm glad you had a great time at Landahl. It's one of my favorite places to ride. There is a race coming up just over the Kansas line in Lawrence in June, maybe you can make it?


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I got bored and ignored this thread for a while, now I'm....

LMAO!!!


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## mward (Apr 7, 2004)

The Berryman said:


> Mmmm...Muffins...
> 
> I hope Old Dude returns so that he can post the recipie for those muffins.


Berryman! It's me! Shorts-changin-guy!

Are you coming to the race at Rhett's on May 16?

M


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

This made my morning! Thanks for the visual. Now I need muffins.



The Berryman said:


> Mmmm...Muffins...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## eppe (Apr 29, 2004)

*Thanks for all the advice!*

Today is the first day i've read anything on this forum, and this is the longest forum post i ever read anywhere... i was only looking for advice on what clipless pedals to buy (i've never tried them before but i fancy getting some), and i end up reading this entire post for an hour or more... I not only found out what i wanted to know about pedals, i found out that i'm likely to tip over when i first use them ( i had no idea they needed getting used to, and i'd have been heading out into the rush hour traffic with them) so even if old dude ignored all the advice, i'll put it to good use!

And what an interesting post in a twisted kind of way. I loved old dude's character development from inquisitive slightly over protective but well meaning husband to one man crusade for mini clips and against anything remotely dangerous! And his wife- portrayed in the start as a shaky and cautious old dear- later turning into an expert skier/championship footballer/competitive boat racer/kayaker/swimmer/all round super sports person! what a twist! and then the supernova ending! old dude if you're stilll lurking here, you're really a trip!

And then at the end of this post i realise ... aha... i'm in the womens lounge... I just thought most of those posting were female cause of the subject matter. I really like this forum and I reckon if old dude can get the amount of good natured help and advice he got despite his bad attitude then that's the sign of a pretty decent bunch of people!! I'm a guy not a girl but i reckon on the internet who can tell so i might just lurk around in the ladies area if you don't mind!

But thanks again for the advice about trying those pedals out on grass! i really would have been in the traffic!!!


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## Scubee (Apr 11, 2004)

*Welcome! Lurk and Learn!*




eppe said:


> Today is the first day i've read anything on this forum, and this is the longest forum post i ever read anywhere... i was only looking for advice on what clipless pedals to buy (i've never tried them before but i fancy getting some), and i end up reading this entire post for an hour or more... I not only found out what i wanted to know about pedals, i found out that i'm likely to tip over when i first use them ( i had no idea they needed getting used to, and i'd have been heading out into the rush hour traffic with them) so even if old dude ignored all the advice, i'll put it to good use!
> 
> And what an interesting post in a twisted kind of way. I loved old dude's character development from inquisitive slightly over protective but well meaning husband to one man crusade for mini clips and against anything remotely dangerous! And his wife- portrayed in the start as a shaky and cautious old dear- later turning into an expert skier/championship footballer/competitive boat racer/kayaker/swimmer/all round super sports person! what a twist! and then the supernova ending! old dude if you're stilll lurking here, you're really a trip!
> 
> ...


Glad you got some useful advice and some entertainment all at the same time. I think a few others did also. I love your critique of the writing here. You are dead on!

Again, welcome!


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

eppe said:


> Today is the first day i've read anything on this forum, and this is the longest forum post i ever read anywhere... i was only looking for advice on what clipless pedals to buy (i've never tried them before but i fancy getting some), and i end up reading this entire post for an hour or more... I not only found out what i wanted to know about pedals, i found out that i'm likely to tip over when i first use them ( i had no idea they needed getting used to, and i'd have been heading out into the rush hour traffic with them) so even if old dude ignored all the advice, i'll put it to good use!
> 
> And what an interesting post in a twisted kind of way. I loved old dude's character development from inquisitive slightly over protective but well meaning husband to one man crusade for mini clips and against anything remotely dangerous! And his wife- portrayed in the start as a shaky and cautious old dear- later turning into an expert skier/championship footballer/competitive boat racer/kayaker/swimmer/all round super sports person! what a twist! and then the supernova ending! old dude if you're stilll lurking here, you're really a trip!
> 
> ...


I hope you brought your snake bite kit with you.

Sssssabine


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*maybe...*

... He's worried she'll smoke him on the climbs and become a much faster biker than him!


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## dirtcrab (Feb 4, 2004)

> I'm a guy not a girl but i reckon on the internet who can tell so i might just lurk around in the ladies area if you don't mind!


Ladies, we need to make the FAQ bigger. I don't think this guy is wearing a dress -- this is a clear violation of our CC&R's.


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

dirtcrab said:


> Ladies, we need to make the FAQ bigger. I don't think this guy is wearing a dress -- this is a clear violation of our CC&R's.


Indeed.

Sabine


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I have M545s and M636s*

... and wear Sidi Dominator 4's. I have not had to do any trimming or anything to get clearence. They engage and disengage no problem. I kinda like that you can make the bindings super sloppy loose for easy engagement/disengagement until you get used to them.


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## triscuit (Apr 26, 2004)

I have not read the whole thread here, so someone may have already said this, but here we go...

To start: I think you may be worrying too much. Going clipless is not that hard once you get over the initial learning how to do it. Once you get used to them, I find, riding is much easier. And obviously I don't know your wife, but there are plenty of people around here in there 40's and 50's riding far better than I do.

1) When I went clipless, I read somewhere that it takes about 60 entry/exits from a pedal before it starts to click in your brain how to get out. This, for me, was very true. I ignored the advice at first, and went to a little grassy area and just tipped over a few times, got a big bruise on my hip and then decided there might be something to this advice. So I then leaned against a street sign and entered and exited the pedal on my left a bunch of times (I still can't do the right very well, it is very strange), and then rode the grassy area. I could now get my foot out most of the time. So before my next real ride, I held up against a chair in my apartment and entered and exited a bunch of times a few nights while I watched tv. By the time I rode, it was pretty easy, and I only fell over a few times when there was a log or rock garden that caught me by surprise. Once I got used to the pedals, I actually found riding much easier--I could get over terrain much easier than without them. My first set of pedals were the cheapest SPD clones and shoes I could find. I figured if I hated them or just couldn't get the hang of it, at least I wouldn't have spent much money. I have since upgraded to nicer, lighter SPDs, mostly because the cheap ones fall apart after a couple of months, and nicer shoes. The cheap pedals were just as easy to use as the more expensive ones, they were just not as well made (one screw fell out on two sets before I switched up) and they did not shed mud at all. The cheap shoes were actually easier to use than the expensive ones becuase they have less tread on the bottom, so it did not get in the way of clipping in as much as the ones I now wear. I still have my pedals on the loosest setting, and now, after almost a year, I am finally thinking about tightening them a little.

2) If your wife plans to continue riding the same kind of stuff she does now, then going clippless is just a matter of getting used to the pedals, and my advice is above. But if she is ALSO looking to start riding more off-road, whether she is clipless or not, she should improve her basic skills, which is totally separate from the pedal issue. I found a mt. bike bootcamp with my local club that was really great. I learned braking, climbing, goind downhill in control, cornering, jumping small stuff--some basic skills that had a far greater impact on my riding than pedals, and which I have used to slowly, but steadily, improve my skills.


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## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*If only he were listening...*



triscuit said:


> I have not read the whole thread here, so someone may have already said this, but here we go...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

*I was bored...and*

read this thread. Most of the women on here had some great advice...and they all made total sense...but I left wanting to beat up old_dude. I know this is an old post...but I am curious if his wife went clipless. My bet is she did and now out rides him.


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## in_the_zone (May 22, 2005)

When she tries them, and it sounds like she's already made up her mind, she will likely get frustrated with them to begin with. If you are a good husband, and I'm sure you are since you are showing such concern, you will encourage and support her when she makes the change. And if she wipes, you will be there to help her up off the ground and pick the rocks out of her wounds. She will be fine after that and you will look like a super star to her for being such an awesome hubby.


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## zenmonkey (Nov 21, 2004)

Way to revive a deadthread. 

I don't know, we men can be so condescending at times and and many a wife will listen too quietly (perhaps not to bruise our *fragile* ego  ) Just today, we were looking at clipless at LBS and wife asks the sales dude (dude because he had many pierced body parts) to explain what kind of pedals were and how each worked differently. So the guy starts of like she is a retarded 4 year old basset hound explaining everything really slowly, until she stops him and asks me "Will I need to change the plates on my Sidis?" He turned a neat red !


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

thought maybe I could fire up old dude...lol



zenmonkey said:


> Way to revive a deadthread.
> 
> I don't know, we men can be so condescending at times and and many a wife will listen too quietly (perhaps not to bruise our *fragile* ego  ) Just today, we were looking at clipless at LBS and wife asks the sales dude (dude because he had many pierced body parts) to explain what kind of pedals were and how each worked differently. So the guy starts of like she is a retarded 4 year old basset hound explaining everything really slowly, until she stops him and asks me "Will I need to change the plates on my Sidi?" He turned a neat red !


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## in_the_zone (May 22, 2005)

Whoops! I didn't realize this was a thread from April...how about an update now that it's been revived?


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## mward (Apr 7, 2004)

This guy is crazy. Read all his posts and you'll see he trolls for responses and then acts like the hurt puppy when people bite back. In another thread he posted he said he had been molested by some guy on the trail. We all thought he was whacko for letting some guy fondle his junk. Then it turns out the guy's dog sniffed his crotch and he called it being molested. He got flamed so bad he didn't post for about 8 months.  He's back, and seems to have calmed down, or at least isn't actively trolling or claiming to have been molested by proxy. And the thread is from april LAST year. It's pretty dead.


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Yeah I know it is pretty old. It cracked me up...a guy asks questions, then does nothing but argue when people try to help him. So...lol, he was molested to huh? funny



mward said:


> This guy is crazy. Read all his posts and you'll see he trolls for responses and then acts like the hurt puppy when people bite back. In another thread he posted he said he had been molested by some guy on the trail. We all thought he was whacko for letting some guy fondle his junk. Then it turns out the guy's dog sniffed his crotch and he called it being molested. He got flamed so bad he didn't post for about 8 months. He's back, and seems to have calmed down, or at least isn't actively trolling or claiming to have been molested by proxy. And the thread is from april LAST year. It's pretty dead.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_You WOULD send your mother out on clipless pedals, after you lead her off-road on a couple K of easy trails?

old_dude

My mom DOES drive me mad sometimes. . ._

 Hell, if my mom wanted to try some DH stuff w/o a helmet, I'd be like, go for it! 

Seriously, though: Don't talk your wife out of something that's such a ubiquitous part of mtb. The sport itself is risky! Clipless makes a rider better....faster AND more efficient.

My God, if I were married to a guy who tried to talk me out of stuff, I'd put my fingers in my ears and go, "Lalalalalala....." As it is, if I were married right now, I'd probably hear crap about riding, night riding, riding with guys I've never met, riding with guys, spending money on riding......in other words, making no progress whatsoever.

Maybe you'd feel better if YOU were already going clipless......??? Just a thought.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Well... probably learning clipless early will make it easier for her, since all her new skills will be done on clipless. Talk to her, and see if she want's to go clipless because her friends do, or because she wants to.

If she does wants to go ahear, let her practice on grass where it won't hurt her much when she falls. Maybe buy her some knee/shin guards. The most common falls because clipless, in my experience, is when she want's to stop, and forget to unclip, so down she'll go. Here's where the knee guards come in.


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## telemarc (Jan 15, 2005)

*Hey old dude...*

I just want to share our experience.
My wife just turned 50 and is 6 years older than me. Istarted her biking 7 years ago and got her into clipless right away. We solely rode cross country and it seemed to be the way to go. 
Then 5 years ago I started to get more into freeride as I was a motorcycle racer for the majority of my life and... Lo and behold she decided to get into DH and freeride as well. We bought her a X-Small bullit and all the gear,Dainese suit and the full kit.
Anyway the main problem was her confidence so I got her to turf the clipless as I had and go to flats. Her confidence skyrocketed and she started to ride stunts and all. We started doing our X-Country rides in flatts as a matter of conveniance and realized they caused no setback in our X-C ability. Racing in the flat stuff, maybe but we are not racing.
Sooo we now have flats on all our bikes except our road bikes. Her Bullit and Trance 1
and My Foes fly and Reign 1.Neither of us feel the need to be clipped in . I can clinb anything in flats I could in Clipless and have the ability to bail on a stunt or lose the bike on a jump if I need to.


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## toyota kawasaki (Apr 7, 2005)

dunno if it was mentioned before but..

get the clips.. if she doesnt like em you can use em?


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