# Need opinion about a stuck seatpost



## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Niner...<sigh>


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Who built the bike? If your LBS built it, I'd agree with them that it is a build issue. Or did you get it fully built from Jenson, with the dropper installed? The thing is, it probably still shipped partially disassembled so they may have a way out, were there any assembly instructions included with it? That does sound like a short time for a post to seize that bad. 

I just bought a dropper post and I noticed it made no mention of grease/paste, just said to install it. I greased it (aluminum frame).


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

chazpat said:


> Who built the bike? If your LBS built it, I'd agree with them that it is a build issue. Or did you get it fully built from Jenson, with the dropper installed? The thing is, it probably still shipped partially disassembled so they may have a way out, were there any assembly instructions included with it? That does sound like a short time for a post to seize that bad.
> 
> I just bought a dropper post and I noticed it made no mention of grease/paste, just said to install it. I greased it (aluminum frame).


That's interesting both my reverb and transfer said to use friction paste on the install.

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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

dumb


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I would think that the responsibility would lie between the end user and whoever did the final assembly. 

Yes, posts should be fitted with grease/paste and if the post was not I'd say whoever put the post in is partly to blame. 

Have you got the frame and stuck post back? I got a stuck carbon post out of an alloy frame a few months ago. You have nothing to loose trying it?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

sigh


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There are some credible reports of seatposts bonding to carbon seattubes even when carbon paste was used.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

cycling.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WP Local said:


> I did not get the frame back from Niner (I never asked for it back).


That's too bad. Even if you had to destroy the frame, you could've got the dropper out and reused it or sold it.

It's sad but you always have to check the assembly of new bikes. Especially ones coming from big suppliers. You shouldn't have to though and I think it might be worth chasing them. With enough heat they might cave and give you something.

Years ago my son's Apply iMac developed several faults just outside of warrantee. Apply initially said they were not covering it as the warranty was up. I kept on at them and eventually they paid for the repair in full, and it was a lot of money.

Don't take the first answer.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

So, it is still your frame and dropper unless you cut a deal for them to keep it in exchange for a discount or the "free" dropper Jensen sent you. You may have to pay for it but why not have them ship it back? It's stuck but can you still ride it? I guess if there is an issue with the dropper needing service it would still be a problem though.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

I totally


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

When I got my new bike, I went through the whole thing and made sure there was grease in the right spots, bolts were tensioned, seatpost greased, etc. There were definitely things missed.

I think you should follow up with Jenson and tell them what niner said, and demand they pay for the frame.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

At 6 months use I would be getting my money back no matter what. With that said I can't fathom not being able to free a seat post. To me that sounds like a weird frame issue.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Thanks


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Hmm, so Niner and Jensen are not saying the same thing. 

Jensen quoted what Niner said "We have no reason to assume that the post was installed incorrectly" but then ignored where Niner said "meaning that it is the correct diameter and from what we can tell it wasn't over-inserted", even saying "Jenson agrees that the post may have been over inserted into the frame which is not something that would be the result of the build process here" which was never said and is actually contrary to what Niner said. 

And Niner said "This really only leaves one explanation, and that is corrosion, the only way that this can occur is if moisture makes its way into the seat tube i.e. sweat, or water. If carbon prep has been installed, this will not be an issue", meaning that if the bike was built correctly, it would not have gotten stuck. But Jensen claims "As for the use of carbon paste, the inspection by Niner was not conclusive". 

It sure sounds like Jensen is ducking responsibility when Niner seems to have concluded that the bike was not built properly. I don't know what to tell you, all I can suggest is you write a polite letter to the right person (you'll have to research who that is) at Jensen and point these things out and include a copy of the letter from Niner with these parts high lighted. But they may say you already accepted the seat post as "settlement", you may want to be prepared for that scenario, offering to pay for the post once they pay for the front triangle replacement. Just my thoughts, I've never had to go through this.

If all you have are emails, you might want to ask Niner to print their response on letterhead and snail mail (or Fed Ex) it to you.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Good advice


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

chazpat said:


> you may want to be prepared for that scenario, offering to pay for the post once they pay for the front triangle replacement.


Good advice, Chazpat, but I would argue that Jenson is responsible for the post and the frame. Their negligence led to the ruin of both items.

Definitely write to Jenson, sometimes those letters get things done, especially if done with a polite tone. If no joy from that, go to the attorney general consumer protection division. You may not get much help but you never know what a call from the A.G.'s office might do for your cause.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

kpdemello said:


> Good advice, Chazpat, but I would argue that Jenson is responsible for the post and the frame. Their negligence led to the ruin of both items.
> 
> Definitely write to Jenson, sometimes those letters get things done, especially if done with a polite tone. If no joy from that, go to the attorney general consumer protection division. You may not get much help but you never know what a call from the A.G.'s office might do for your cause.


Good point, droppers aren't cheap.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

wozers


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

I agree that Jenson is totally dodging responsibility on this one. Just like a shop, if they installed the seatpost, it's their responsibility to use carbon paste or at least grease. I'd continue to push them. They owe you a new seatpost and a new front triangle at least.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

delicious


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I can't imagine that's from no paste in just 6 months. The only thing I can think of is if the seat collar was loose during a ride forcing/jamming the the post into the seat tube frame termination. At that point I'd guess you are responsible and would be the only scenario I can imagine you would be responsible at 6 months use (not saying that is what happened). Niner having the triangle should be able to tell you exactly what is going on. This may not be the most pc advice but posting these things on the manufacturer's MTBR page seems to usually net results.

I've never used friction paste or grease & keep in mind only the top 3/4" of the seat tube contacts the seat post at most. I essentially glue my press BB's into my carbon frames & have never had an issue removing them despite much more material interface than a seat post. The only thing on my builds I take the time to grease are the bolts on the pinch clamps on bolt on grips.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Yeah, I would press this. Their emails are good evidence. 

Niner are saying that the only way the post could stick is lack of paste at assembly. They are the manufacturer of the bike and have examined the frame so they should know, right? 

Jensons assembled the bike and cannot prove that they used paste!

If Jensons defence, that the post was over-inserted, was correct then Niner would have realised this was the case when they examined the frame.

Tell Them both that you need the frame back as legal evidence. If you get it back you can have it independently examined. If they won't give you the frame back it'll really hurt their case. 

I think you'll win this.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> Yeah, I would


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Well, I


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

After carefully following your problem, I feel that I would pursue this in whatever way is necessary. Even if just for the principle.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> After carefully f


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Be sure you keep a diary with dates, times, names and what transpired.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Okay... cross niner off my list of manufacturers to ever buy from...

Legally they had no right to destroy your frame. That was your property, especially since they made you buy a new one.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

Man this is a serious case of finger pointing.

Sorry, but I think this ship has sailed. You no longer have the original frame, and according to niner, neither do they. You also excepted their solution to the problem by buying the new frame or front triangle....

At least Jenson stepped up and offered a new post (small consolation). Niner really dropped the ball, they gave you a discount, but a crummy one at that. Then they had some guy give you an attitude on the phone, bad form indeed.

I would sell that P.O.S. and buy from another brand, and maybe buy local as well.

I feel for you on this deal, it just seems like a no win at this point. 

Best of luck


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

kpdemello said:


> Okay... cross niner off my list of manufacturers to ever buy from...
> 
> Legally they had no right to destroy your frame. That was your property, especially since they made you buy a new one.


I have to agree with the above statement. You were required to purchase the replacement frame. Even though you were granted a discount, the old frame was yours to keep as long as you covered the return shipping.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

kpdemello said:


> Legally they had no right to destroy your frame. That was your property, especially since they made you buy a new one.


 I'm guessing that by agreeing to a "crash replacement" you also forfeit your original part/bike/component. I think this is a common practice. They don't want these things resurfacing


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

I wrot


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Cleared2land said:


> After carefully following your problem, I feel that I would pursue this in whatever way is necessary. Even if just for the principle.


I agree with this. This sounds like piss-poor customer service at best. There are way too many bike manufacturers out there for niner to act like dicks to their customers.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

WP local: you wanna get attention and a response, this is what I found worked when FedEx damaged a frame of mine. 

I love what you already did but the legal system moves slow. So does BBB.

I will tell you I won’t go back to jenson or ever buy a niner ever after reading your post. 

But you really want to make a difference, this is what worked for me. 

Get the CEO’s number of both companies. Call them calmly. Remember this is strictly business. 

Tell them if they don’t fix your problem that you’ll be happy to put pictures and descriptions of your problems all over social media (Instagram, Facebook, and twitter get the most attention).

I found if you say you will do the following using social media, it usually gets attention. 

- state the facts. 
- post pictures of the brokenness
- post pictures of the emails, etc. 
- use appropriate hashtags 
- and you will find whatever news cast that does consumer advocacy will listen. 

It took me doing this to get FedEx to actually credit me back, even though the frame was properly insured and they were making me jump through hoops for two months, to get them to resolve my claim. Be persistent but polite and calm. It may take time but you should be able to get what you rightfully deserve from getting shafted by shitty CS.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

WP Local said:


> I totally destroyed the dropper post trying to get it out. I guess I'm curious what you would do if you were me would you drop it or would you pursue it thanks


I would pursue it if Jenson assembled it like that. I'd pursue it if the LBS assembled it like that.

And the frame with stuck post is yours, they should have returned it to you.

Still, this is something that you could have checked initially so don't go crazy. What bothers me is that if what you are saying is true, then Jenson seems okay with you just writing off a brand new bike from them for something which they played a role, it's unacceptable customer service if it happened as you say.

By comparison, I bought a bike from competitive cyclist a few years ago, it shipped assembled with a checklist included as to what was done and who did it. After riding for a bit I couldn't get the headset to stay tight. Finally figured out that whoever assembled the bike installed the crown race upside down. Competitive Cyclist and Santa Cruz communicated with each other and they allowed me to pick any headset CC sells, even a 110 for free, just for my troubles. All i did was communicate nicely through emails with them and one afternoon they spring that.

Again, if it happened as you said, jenson should have done something for you, at least a decent discount on a new frame for your troubles.

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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

WP Local said:


> Thanks for the advice all.
> For what it's worth I have been around and around with both Niner and Jenson....What I got was a $350 dropper post.
> 
> This was the response from Jenson:
> ...


Just read the email, pretty lame, as Chzpat said they contradict each other when read in full, yet Jenson seems to avoid the full text. I guess Jenson felt guilty enough to give you a seatpost--woohoo! Disregard my previous post, I'd be pretty ticked off after reading this. Still, you'll get better results by being polite and firm.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Here's a start...*









Mike at Jenson USA, is also the founder.


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

I'd say at the very least you should get your frame back. Contact someone like calfee that do carbon fiber repair and see if they can remove the post via frame destruction/repair.

edit: Sounds like niner may try and take care of you, still, It appears they kept your frame sent in for warranty, but then failed to warranty the frame. It almost like theft! Frame gets sent to Niner - they say, its broken not our fault, no replacement...but we're keeping this one, because it's broken; What if this was you car (only other warranty situation I could think of):
You take car to dealer because engine is broken, they say "engine broke but it wasn't our fault", no warranty. You go to take car to separate repair shop and dealer says: "we destroyed car because thats our policy, we destroy everything broken that comes into the shop." Seems like a pretty weird policy, destroying someones property that isn't legitimately theirs.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

That's a B.S. response from Niner. I would still pursue the issue with Jenson and Niner.

I always thought Jenson was better than that. They screwed up a few 2 day shipping orders with a buddy of mine last year. He called a politely complained and to make up for it they let him buy a bunch of parts at 10% over cost. Very generous.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

I'd chalk it up as a lesson learned. I have used the same LBS for the last 30+ years. In that time, they've had a lot of mechanics. Each and every time I pick up a bike (after service) I check the skewers and all the allen heads (stem, seat post, etc.). XX% (not 9% and less than 20%) of the time, they are super loose. 

Regarding the situation in question, any time you get a new bike its up to you to dial it in: lube, grease, proper torque spec's. Lots of riders don't believe its necessary to lube a new out-of-the-box chain...wrong. You can argue its not your fault but the LBS and the manufacturer aren't stepping up; so it's all on you.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Niner would be foolish at this point not to refund the front triangle cost to the OP. 

To the president of Niner: do yourself a favor and refund this man the $975 he paid. How much did that front triangle cost you? $200 from the OEM factory in Taiwan? Stand behind your products!!! And retrain your customer service reps!

The reasons cited are bogus. The real reason why the seatpost seized in the seat tube was because of manufacturing defects. I don't buy the carbon paste nonsense at all for a 6 month old frame. Either the seat tube was undersized or it wasn't straight to begin with. Maybe there's a huge gob of epoxy in there. Whoever assembled the bike at Jenson probably forced it in with a deadblow. This is of course speculation but I'm somewhat familiar with the mechanics of seized mated parts. 

This whole situation is one decision away from a PR disaster.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Lots


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

ericthedood said:


> niner


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

WP Local said:


> Lots of good info and opinions here!
> 
> I have not heard back from the President of Niner and am still very hopeful that they will do the right thing; however, if not, I think I will go the small claims route and see what an independent 3rd party judge thinks.
> 
> ...


well said.

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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

WP Local;13371393
I bought a Niner Jet 9 RDO from Jenson USA
[/QUOTE said:


> This is who is responsible. Period.
> 
> However, what I can't understand is you not becoming aware of the issue for so long. Didn't you have to adjust the seat post for your ride height? It was perfect ride height right out of the box? Hmmm


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## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

I've ordered several bikes from Jenson, excellent experience thus far. The seatpost is not shipped inserted into the seat tube. It's up to the buyer to insert the seatpost, make adjustments and tighten the collar.

I don't think Jenson is on the hook as they didn't fully assemble the bike, specifically not inserting the seatpost into the seat tube. Whether Jenson lubed/carbon pasted the seat tube appropriately could be proved by cutting the frame open. I'm assuming Niner did that. 

I can see how inserting the seatpost too deep into a frame with a curved seat tube could get it stuck. Not saying that happened here but there are many possibilities how that can happen.

It sucks to have this happen and do wish Niner helps you out even more.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

I promise


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Jetta2010 said:


> This is who is responsible. Period.
> 
> However, what I can't understand is you not becoming aware of the issue for so long. Didn't you have to adjust the seat post for your ride height? It was perfect ride height right out of the box? Hmmm


not sure what you do, but for me maybe 2 rides to set my saddle
height if I didn't get it right in front of the house. and those are just minor raising and lowering. I use a Salsa lip-lock and I will not need to adjust it. I could easily go 6 months without removing it entirely unless I crash.

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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

Let’s back up a minute, Who took the bike out of the box and assembled it??


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

[quote=


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

Do you have a picture of the original frame with post stuck up in there?? 

As much as I think your outta luck, I’m still morbidly curious. 

If you are paying a build fee, i can see how you would assume that you only need to install wheels, bars, etc and go ride. I wonder does Jenson have a checklist that they go through? Doubtful, its only a bike, right??
Regardless it does seem like a premature failure. 
Usually a post that gets stuck is a corrosive issue, as i think was stated above. Do you do a lot of wet rides or have some seriously toxic ass sweat or what?


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## mfowler95 (Jan 9, 2012)

If I am reading this right you purchased a Niner frame from Jensen and had them install a dropper post. You have already stated that you adjusted the post when you received it so that indicates that it was not stuck then. So that means either so called paste was not used during assembly or something happened after adjustment causing the corrosion, neither being Niner’s fault. If anything you should be going after Jensen not Niner. 


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Ok...


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

WP Local said:


> Ok...time for a break....I am getting too defensive.
> I will post when I hear back from Mike Gann; president of Niner Bikes.


Good. Dialogue is important. Just the facts with these guys.

If all you want back is your destroyed frame, that shouldn't cost them much of anything.

If you want them to replace it, just state the facts. And you will post wonderful things about them.

I was really surprised that you hadn't said if you had adjusted the seat after getting the bike. So it sounds like you did. So that's the build.

Anyway good luck. We spend too much on these things to be treated poorly.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I wonder how much of this is Niner knowing it was Jenson, but not wanting to throw them under the bus? I imagine Jenson is a huge retailer, and Jenson probably thinks that relationship is far more important than a single customer. Niner is one of the smaller brands, after all, and these big retailers often throw their weight around with their suppliers.

But then if Niner cares that much about their relationship with Jenson, they should be warrantying the frame.


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

Couple of questions.

What was the exact model/year/size of the bike including build code?

What was the model/size of the dropper that came on the bike?

From the design of the frame, I can easily see a scenario that if the seat post were to have been inserted too far into the frame that it may get stuck. This would be easy enough to confirm with the product information of the bike and seat post and comparing the max depth of the seat post to the max depth allowed on the frame. 

I don't buy the corrosion issue as 6 months and the materials in question (carbon) don't normally lend themselves to corrosion. My understanding is that the carbon paste's function is to provide a higher friction surface between two carbon pieces so you don't need to provide excessive clamp force and potentially damage (i.e., crack) the carbon.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

The fact that Jenson charge the OP with a $125 building fee puts even more accountability on them.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

WP Local said:


> Ok...time for a break....I am getting too defensive.
> I will post when I hear back from Mike Gann; president of Niner Bikes.


 No need to take it personally man, this is usually how these opinion questions play out.

You know how it is, everyone has an opinion, but you gotta go with the flow on this forum...

Besides this is an issue not easily solved. I wish you the best with it


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

I think it's interesting that Jenson points to the lack of carbon paste as the cause as this puts the issue in their lap. If that was the problem, it would have been their responsibility to apply the paste during assembly of the seat into the frame. Unless they claim that the customer either removed the paste (unlikely) or it needed to be reapplied as a preventative maintenance item (again, not likely in 6 mo of use). I think the carbon paste is a red herring. I'd take them to small claims and have judge decide. Likely Jenson will cave before the court date. 

Still, it's interesting that the OP has already stated that he adjusted the seat post upon receiving the item from Jenson. Did he adjust it up or down, and by how much? I know there is a minimum amount that a seat post can be inserted into frame, but is there a stated maximum?

Also, the burden of proof will be on the OP. He needs to show that Jenson installed a seat post on the bike which was not suited for it. I would go after Jenson by claiming that there is a maximum insertion of seat post into that frame before which the post will not get stuck, and Jenson therefore had an obligation to make the buyer aware of that point and in clear terms warn to not exceed that depth.


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## Grassington (Jun 24, 2017)

WP Local said:


> The bike arrives 90% assembled.
> Install the wheels...the handlebar... ride the bike.
> 
> When you buy the bike Jenson has a line item for"
> ...


That's pretty standard for a bike-in-the-post assembly level. I got a new bike in the mail in August, and though it came with an assembly QC checklist from the vendor I went though most of the fixings to check the torques. All the frame torques were OK, not so the steerer-to-stem clamp (too loose) or the front axle preload (too tight). I didn't get around to checking the saddle rails clamp torques, so naturally they rattled loose a couple of hours into my first ride. Happily CF paste had been used on the dropper post, and it just happened to be set to the exact right height. Long tedious anecdote short: the vendor's QC tick-list was worth squat. I can understand the vendor's position as time is money and it's not quick work checking all this, but if I bought a new car I wouldn't expect to have to check the cylinder head bolts before I drove it.

As for WP Local's seized seatpost - it's not the end user's responsibility to grease the post on a pre-assembled bike, that's down to whoever first put the seatpost in the frame. Whether that would be Niner or Jenson I don't know, but I'm sure they could thrash it out between 'em. Don't let Niner/Jenson fob you off with "The seatpost must have been jammed down too far, but we've unfortunately destroyed the evidence now", this appears to be a classic case of chemical welding due to galvanic corrosion. This is a known and well-documented phenomenon with CF/aluminium interfaces, and is prevented by using the appropriate grease or assembly compound. Omitting the magic gunk during assembly is negligence.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Good


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

[QUOTE=Jetta2010


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

This from July....at Buffalo Creek Colorado.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

WP Local said:


> Carbon frames have Warnings all over them about how much to tighten bolts. They take measures to make sure that the frames are generally protected during riding. But have any of you ever seen any warnings about a seat tube?
> 
> Personally The only warning I have ever seen is the minimum insertion line on the seat post And the maximum torque allowed on the seat post clamp.


My carbon full suspension frame had both the minimum and maximum insertion depth marked on the stock seatpost because the seat tube has a bend in it to allow for rear wheel clearance.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

yeah


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

Grassington said:


> ...this appears to be a classic case of chemical welding due to galvanic corrosion. This is a known and well-documented phenomenon with CF/aluminium interfaces, and is prevented by using the appropriate grease or assembly compound. Omitting the magic gunk during assembly is negligence.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

Carbon is a non-metal so no galvanic corrosion possible between seatpost and frame. Maybe between seatpost and seatpost clamp, but likely they are both aluminum and therefore no galvanic corrosion due to no dis similar metals (no driving force).


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Jetta2010 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
> 
> Carbon is a non-metal so no galvanic corrosion possible between seatpost and frame. Maybe between seatpost and seatpost clamp, but likely they are both aluminum and therefore no galvanic corrosion due to no dis similar metals (no driving force).


Wrong information that you're placing there.

Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymers (CFRP) products and assemblies are VERY susceptible to galvanic corrosion. This has been an ongoing problem for any industry that uses CFRP, and a particular problem in the aerospace industry. Additionally, it's a well researched and widely published problem.

Despite all of the excellent properties of CFRCs, there are issues with using CFRC and metals together. Carbon fibers in CFRPs cause this material to become electrically conductive. The carbon fibers are electrically conductive and electrochemically very noble. Therefore, when a metal is electrically connected to a CFRP, it is more susceptible to galvanic corrosion. This situation becomes worse when a large surface area of carbon composite components is coupled to small metallic parts (such as fasteners, bolts and nuts). In these circumstances, the rate of galvanic corrosion is extremely high due to the high cathode to anode surface area ratio (Ac/Aa).


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

The OP says he moved the seatpost when he pulled it out of the box. It was free to move in the frame. At this point, everything worked as intended on the bike. End of story.
Did the OP ever check for prep? Even if it was prepped, the prep does not stay there forever. Was the seatpost collar torqued correctly?
The fact is, the OP was the person that assembled the bike, so they are ultimately responsible for that assembly. Not Niner. Not Jenson. 
If the OP had bought the bike at a LBS, then there would be a recourse. The bike would have been assembled by someone, and that someone could have been accountable for the work. In this scenerio, the OP is accountable for the assembly of the bike.
This scenario could have been also been averted if the OP had done some periodic maintenance. You can't just think a modern high end bicycle can be washed daily, put away wet, and not maintained. If the seatpost had been checked, this situation could have been averted.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Scotth72 said:


> You can't just think a modern high end bicycle can be washed daily, put away wet, and not maintained. If the seatpost had been checked, this situation could have been averted.


Where does the OP state that he washed the bike daily, put it away wet, and did not maintain it?

You're making assumptions and statements that are not part of this thread.

Do you work for Niner or Jenson?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Got a c


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Where does the OP state that he washed the bike daily, put it away wet, and did not maintain it?
> 
> You're making assumptions and statements that are not part of this thread.
> 
> Do you work for Niner or Jenson?


It was a generalization based on what I see as a long time bike mechanic. It was not meant as an accusation, sorry if it came out as such. It has merit in this thread, as water is a leading cause of seat posts being stuck in frames.
I do not work for Jenson or Niner. I am however very tired of people trying to get warranties from companies when the cause is improper/no maintenance or just negligence. 
When you buy a bike online, and taking possession at somewhere other than a bike shop or assembler, you are taking the responsibility of building it properly. Period. That is why LBS exist, and also why most bike companies still won't ship directly to the customer.


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> Despite all of the excellent properties of CFRCs, there are issues with using CFRC and metals together. Carbon fibers in CFRPs cause this material to become electrically conductive. The carbon fibers are electrically conductive and electrochemically very noble. Therefore, when a metal is electrically connected to a CFRP, it is more susceptible to galvanic corrosion. This situation becomes worse when a large surface area of carbon composite components is coupled to small metallic parts (such as fasteners, bolts and nuts). In these circumstances, the rate of galvanic corrosion is extremely high due to the high cathode to anode surface area ratio (Ac/Aa).


Interesting. Well spank my ass and call me charlie. Also, you may want to reference that when cutting and pasting as someone may think you came up with that on your own.

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galv...ed-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers/2/1556


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## Jetta2010 (Jan 15, 2012)

WP Local said:


> Got a call from Niner.
> They asked if I would settle for a refund amount less than $975.
> We discussed that I paid for shipping and assembly as well so my out of pocket cost was about $1120.
> 
> ...


Good luck. I hope they accept as I feel you were being very generous considering how my time/effort/money involved.

However, my thoughts on it are now they know you will accept a lower amount to end this and may offer you even less. Hopefully not and they just put an end to it.

In light of the information on corrosion being an potential issue (thanks Cleared2land), I guess it's possible Jenson did not apply the carbon friction paste and this led to the fused post. I now think that is the most likely scenario.

I disagree with Scotth72 in that it is likely that the end user was at fault, as based on the nature of the issue and the time involved it doesn't seem likely he had done anything to cause the post to freeze in the frame. Again, it was Jenson who had installed the seat post in the frame and if there was a problem with the install Jenson should have corrected it prior to shipping it out.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

You should ask for a bucket of carbon paste as well, to seal the deal.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Jetta2010 said:


> Interesting. Well spank my ass and call me charlie. Also, you may want to reference that when cutting and pasting as someone may think you came up with that on your own.
> 
> https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galv...ed-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers/2/1556


I agree completely that a published statement should be cited when used. My bad.

I have been dealing with CFRC corrosion problems in the aerospace/aviation industry for so many years, it has become intuitively common. Proper electrical bonding and insulation between the two components is essential to avoiding galvanic corrosion.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

So I think this


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

Your experience has definitely put me off Niner as a potential next bike. I hope in the end you feel like you've got some measure of satisfaction from them.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I think you need to give them a little more time. People are busy and he may have already had a fully scheduled day.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

chazpat said:


> kjkjt.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

WP Local said:


> Please understand
> 
> They called ME and asked me to accept half.
> I said yes only to find that the person who called (who is in charge of warranty claims) still needed the President of Niners approval. Come on! That's nuts right?
> ...


Just to be clear, your story has changed. You said that you offered to take $500, later to day they offered you.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Story i


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

I gues


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Their handling of the situation seems very bizarre to me. Best of luck to you


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## mfowler95 (Jan 9, 2012)

WP Local said:


> I guess I am done for a while.....
> 
> Lots of great comments on both sides. Thanks
> 
> I personally don't believe the seat tube was reamed properly leading to the failure. This should be covered under warranty and if they didn't destroy the evidence would be easy to prove.


Seat post was seized in bike, how would you ever prove it was not reamed properly? Since the post went in at Jensen and was adjustable when you received it would lead you to believe it was sized correctly. Bike was destroyed because you had already accepted a replacement at crash damage price but now you want more $$$. And yes, not uncommon for the President of a company to have to OK a refund like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ How insightful.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

WP Local said:


> I personally don't believe the seat tube was reamed properly leading to the failure. This should be covered under warranty and if they didn't destroy the evidence would be easy to prove.
> 
> Absolutely appalling, embarrassing customer service from Niner.
> 
> ...


I responded to the thread you started in the Niner forum.

Not sure what good reporting a claim would do, as the dealer (Jenson USA) assembled the bike. TBH it's on Jenson, not Niner since Niner didn't assemble it - at least I would think.

Now if Niner sold it direct to you, I'd drive up.

BTW, what is the failure? Seems like an improper lubrication issue resulting in a seized seatpost. Nothing broke, correct?


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

kpdemello said:


> I wonder how much of this is Niner knowing it was Jenson, but not wanting to throw them under the bus? I imagine Jenson is a huge retailer, and Jenson probably thinks that relationship is far more important than a single customer. Niner is one of the smaller brands, after all, and these big retailers often throw their weight around with their suppliers.
> 
> But then if Niner cares that much about their relationship with Jenson, they should be warrantying the frame.


YES.

And I think chazpat has it in post #15 that is kind of a tell. Good call chazpat.

Niner has responded, more or less called it out that the insertion of the post or things related is the issue. Yet Jenson USA responded too, at least a version carefully worded and avoiding the points Niner made. Niner has a giant customer with Jenson USA and it's my opinion that letter from Niner is a handy piece of evidence to the nature and cause of the problem better yet, in the manufacturers own words.
Were Jenson and Niner to think a half step ahead, they'd have worked together or split the investment of getting a customer taken care of a while back. Now, they may both be too tired by excuses or finger pointing.

Somewhere else in the thread, there is mention of this as one decision away from a huge PR problem. Reading of this now 4 or 5 days later, I'm pretty sure there were many thousands of readers before me...

* *What happens when a company like Niner or Jenson USA gets an email with a thread link to something like this? Do they read it, respond or feel famous?*


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

The revealing/interesting aspect here (to me) are the 2 emails. Without those I am more inclined to say that each company provided compensation for incident with some grey area.

The grey area also includes that it could easily be the fault of the assembler (Jenson) or the mfg/bike co. (Niner). The emails at least give an impression that each company, independently raced to a quick conclusion that there is no grey area with respect to their responsibilities. 

I have had 3 warranty issues in the past 4 years and with each one Specialized, Competitive Cyclist, and Santa Cruz never gave me such an impression. It took a little time but was thoughtful and resolved positively. In one instance I got a brand new frame and that instance was resolved the quickest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mfowler95 said:


> If I am reading this right you purchased a Niner frame from Jensen and had them install a dropper post. You have already stated that you adjusted the post when you received it so that indicates that it was not stuck then. So that means either so called paste was not used during assembly or something happened after adjustment causing the corrosion, neither being Niner's fault. If anything you should be going after Jensen not Niner.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my thought too. If the post moved when he got the bike, then that does not indicate any problem with the frame itself and no blame should be placed on Niner.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mfowler95 said:


> If I am reading this right you purchased a Niner frame from Jensen and had them install a dropper post. You have already stated that you adjusted the post when you received it so that indicates that it was not stuck then. So that means either so called paste was not used during assembly or something happened after adjustment causing the corrosion, neither being Niner's fault. If anything you should be going after Jensen not Niner.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my thought too. If the post moved when he got the bike, then that does not indicate any problem with the frame itself and no blame should be placed on Niner.


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## David993 (Mar 11, 2014)

*Lots of words above! Jenson should take ownership of this issue!*

If the bike was under warranty your contract is with Jenson. 
If this is a maintenance issue it should have been notified to you at the time of sale.
E.G. 'check the seatpost every month for free movement and apply carbon friction paste as necessary.'
If this is not a maintenance requirement in the first 12 months of ownership and the problem ocurred after 6 months then any half decent business would replace the front triangle and seatpost PDQ! 
If there was a frame issue then Jenson should resolve it directly with Niner, take you out of the loop and keep a customer happy and avoid all the above bad publicity! OK!


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## mfowler95 (Jan 9, 2012)

David993 said:


> If the bike was under warranty your contract is with Jenson.
> If this is a maintenance issue it should have been notified to you at the time of sale.
> E.G. 'check the seatpost every month for free movement and apply carbon friction paste as necessary.'
> If this is not a maintenance requirement in the first 12 months of ownership and the problem ocurred after 6 months then any half decent business would replace the front triangle and seatpost PDQ!
> If there was a frame issue then Jenson should resolve it directly with Niner, take you out of the loop and keep a customer happy and avoid all the above bad publicity! OK!


^^^^this^^^^

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

Ugh. Why did I buy Niner./// My shop warned me about horrible Niner CS and warranty problems. Should have went SC or Pivot.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Niner is a quality bike.

The Customer Service is failing the brand reputation.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

[QUOTE=Cleared2lan


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

I guess time will tell the story for them.

If they don't have a positive rep for backing up their own products, bike shops/dealers will get hit doubly hard with issues and I can guess how they'll fix that problem. They know they can't afford to fix bikes or off-set costs for fixes due to lack of support on claims and they definitively don't want to poison their customer base or let a brand ruin store reputation.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

WP Local said:


> Story is the same...i am just not being clear.
> 
> The person who made the offer did not have authority to do so.
> I only said yes to be done with this today....which didn't happen so l am back to square one


Did they ever resolve this for you?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

[QUOTE=t


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

So this


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

waiting a week or two, or even 3 isn't unreasonable to me when you are waiting to hear from someone much higher up. with a smaller company you hope it is no more than 2 weeks.

I would not get paranoid, just relax, I can't imagine that this thread dictates the timeliness of their response. 


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

For future reference.

14 Ways to Unstick a Seatpost

I once through my leg over a bike at Jensons and pushed down on the fork. The bars rotated all the way down. Also had them forget parts on a fork rebuild, and forgot to seat a seal on a axel swap on a Hope Hub.


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

Change the title of the thread include “Niner stuck seat-post”. People need to know how they are treating you. From a guy who just bought an 18 Niner

And I totally disagree that waiting a week or two isn’t unreasonable They are not that big of a company. You walk down the hall “Hey boss what do you want to do with the seatpost guy?”

How many people have decided to now steer clear of Niner as this thread grows and grows. 

Spend dollars to save pennies, if you ask me.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Vader said:


> For future reference.
> 
> 14 Ways to Unstick a Seatpost
> 
> I once through my leg over a bike at Jensons and pushed down on the fork. The bars rotated all the way down. Also had them forget parts on a fork rebuild, and forgot to seat a seal on a axel swap on a Hope Hub.


Number 14 on the list for Carbon posts and frames was very clever. Impressive how he concluded that pushing the larger tube was a better approach v. Pulling the seatpost up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

cjsb said:


> Number 14 on the list for Carbon posts and frames was very clever. Impressive how he concluded that pushing the larger tube was a better approach v. Pulling the seatpost up.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


and using seat post bolts to act as the press. I'll remember this one if I ever need it


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## mfowler95 (Jan 9, 2012)

fiveo said:


> Change the title of the thread include "Niner stuck seat-post". People need to know how they are treating you. From a guy who just bought an 18 Niner
> 
> And I totally disagree that waiting a week or two isn't unreasonable They are not that big of a company. You walk down the hall "Hey boss what do you want to do with the seatpost guy?"
> 
> ...


What you're forgetting is that customer had already agreed on a settlement when he accepted a replacement frame at crash damage price. It was only later that he now wants more money back. If he wasn't happy with the discounted price he never should have agreed to it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

True. I kinda forgot that part Ok let me change my cliche. “ A deal is a deal”. 

But I still think he got jerked around by both companies in the beginning.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Not quite


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

WP Local said:


> I really thought I was acting in good faith in my dealings with Niner...


So where are you with either Niner and/or Jenson at this moment?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> So where


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## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

WP Local said:


> Niner said they would get back with me 8 days ago via email. I reached out to them the next day and said basically "I look forward to hearing from you". I have not heard from them since.
> 
> I no longer expect them to do anything on their own, so I am now pursuing other means of dispute resolution.


Damn, sorry to hear that. I'm a Niner and Jenson fan and this seems out of character in my limited warranty experience with them.

Santa Cruz is looking really good to me right now...


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Wow...

Not a good reflection on Niner or Jenson. This will cost both companies way more than a replacement frame, post, and an apology would have.

From a article I recently read- "A recent survey by ClickFox took a close look at what the repercussions are of poor customer service experience. While 52 percent of disgruntled customers spout off to family and friends, an even more astounding 32 percent altogether will stop doing business with the company that provided a lousy customer experience. And when customers take to social media to air their ire, more than 60 percent of consumers are influenced by these detrimental comments."

I can't help but to think this issue would have been quickly resolved to the OP's satisfaction, if the bike had been purchased at Competitive Cyclist or REI....


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

410sprint said:


> While 52 percent of disgruntled customers spout off to family and friends, an even more astounding 32 percent altogether will stop doing business with the company that provided a lousy customer experience. And when customers take to social media to air their ire, more than 60 percent of consumers are influenced by these detrimental comments."


Yes, it's astounding that Jenson and Niner haven't considered this. I know that after reading this thread I wouldn't buy from either of them.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

I’ve been a Jenson USA customer for many, many years, and after this debacle I’ll be one no more.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes, it'


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

I saw on FB that niner was selling some of their demo bikes. I wanted to comment and ask if a stuck seatpost was included?


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

There are some more radical ways to get seat posts out. Not sure how it would have worked with a dropper, but cutting the seat post and then running a progressive reamer down the seat tube is a method I have heard about working on carbon to carbon bonded frames and posts.


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

I got to think reps from both companies are following this thread. Shocked one hasn’t stepped up to say. “We value our customers apologize for the miscommunication that has happened between the three parties, and we are working to resolve this issue.” 

Silence just makes people take their business elsewhere.


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## mfowler95 (Jan 9, 2012)

WP Local said:


> Not quite accurate.... I never agreed to any settlement.
> 
> I had to buy the Front triangle before I could ship them the defective triangle for them to evaluate.
> 
> ...


I still believe your beef should be with Jensen not Niner.

Here is another way to look at it. You buy a new car, say a Ford. You immediately drive it to a tire and wheel shop and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. Six months later you have a flat and find that the lug nuts are cross threaded on to the studs. Is this Fords fault or the tire shop???

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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

mfowler95 said:


> I still believe your beef should be with Jensen not Niner.
> 
> Here is another way to look at it. You buy a new car, say a Ford. You immediately drive it to a tire and wheel shop and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. Six months later you have a flat and find that the lug nuts are cross threaded on to the studs. Is this Fords fault or the tire shop???
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


don't think it's quite the same here. I'd think if the dealer got a factory accessory installed the wrong way on your car ford you back you out, since you have no option then to get the car from the dealer and the accessory installed by them. niner should make sure their dealers know what they are doing and in the end make the customer happy and try to resolve the situation with the dealer after that!


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

mfowler95 said:


> I still believe your beef should be with Jensen not Niner.
> 
> Here is another way to look at it. You buy a new car, say a Ford. You immediately drive it to a tire and wheel shop and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. Six months later you have a flat and find that the lug nuts are cross threaded on to the studs. Is this Fords fault or the tire shop???
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the lug nuts are cross threaded because of a factory defect, then it's on Ford. So then, if I bring the vehicle back to ford, do they "destroy" it? Why would they do that?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

mbmb65 said:


> If the lug nuts are cross threaded because of a factory defect, then it's on Ford. So then, if I bring the vehicle back to ford, do they "destroy" it? Why would they do that?


Quite. I think the supplier screwed up and caused the initial problem but Niner then made things worse rather than helping sort it out.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

mfowler95 said:


> I still believe your beef should be with Jensen not Niner.
> 
> Here is another way to look at it. You buy a new car, say a Ford. You immediately drive it to a tire and wheel shop and put on aftermarket wheels and tires. Six months later you have a flat and find that the lug nuts are cross threaded on to the studs. Is this Fords fault or the tire shop???


Not the same situation at all. He didn't take it to get aftermarket whatevers installed. He bought a complete bike from a dealer, an authorized niner dealer. It's like buying a fully assembled car from a Ford dealer, and then Ford turning around and saying nah brah, we won't warranty that because our dealer assembled it wrong.

It seems to me that Niner and Jenson are both on the hook, and both should be working together to make it right. Instead, both appear to be conspiring to screw over the customer. Niner even got to make another sale out of the deal.

It seems to me that Jenson probably did their part - they threw in a dropper, an expensive part, for free. Why isn't Niner stepping up with a replacement triangle?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> Quite. I think the supplier screwed up and caused the initial problem but Niner then made things worse rather than helping sort it out.


Yes, it seems clear that both Jenson and Niner have dropped the ball here and it boggles the mind to think that both companies have allowed this to get to this point without a legitimate solution.


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## MasterBaker (Oct 25, 2014)

WP Local said:


> Just so you all know I am not advocating not using these companies. My experience is my own, and whereas I am frustrated and disappointed, I only want restitution for my warranty issue.


All I want to add to this thread is that IF you end up in small claims court, trying to determine if Niner is responsible for a defective product, riddle me this:
How could the seat tube become defective at some point between the day you recieved the bike (when you adjusted the seat post) and 6 months down the road (when you found the post seized)? If it were defective in regards to bore size, glob of epoxy or other poor finishing, why would it have worked at day one, but not 6 months later? I think you need to change your focus from Niner over to Jensen on this if you ever want any resolution.

Good god I'm glad I bought a Santa Cruz. I looked at Niners before pulling the trigger too. I think that the only fault Niner has in this is their inability to decisively determine why the post was stuck, and then destroying the frame! And making you pay for a new triangle before letting you ship it back for evaluation? Amateur hour stuff right there.

Hope you can get this sorted with JENSEN since I truly think they are at fault for not using carbon paste during assembly. Since Niner destroyed the frame, and you did accept a new dropper post from Jensen as compensation already, I'm not sure if there's going to be a lot more they can do for you at this point.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

MasterBaker said:


> I'm not sure if there's going to be a lot more they _*can*_ do for you at this point.


I think either company CAN do something about it.

I think both of them are unwilling.


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## MasterBaker (Oct 25, 2014)

Cleared2land said:


> I think either company CAN do something about it.
> 
> I think both of them are unwilling.


Valid point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Niner Bikes (Dec 9, 2004)

At Niner, we're always bummed when someone can't ride. Being riders ourselves, we know time off the bike is much less fun than time on the bike. So, when it comes to our warranty process, we take it seriously.
In our warranty policy, we state: 
"Niner is a company of cyclists who believe in the products we produce. We engineer our products to offer the best ride and we back them up with the best service and support possible.

Niner warrants that all of our products are free from manufacturing and material defects for 5 years from the original purchase date. We do require proof of purchase through an authorized dealer or retailer to process a claim. Second hand owners are not covered under our warranty policy.
Use of our products as intended is the only limitation of warranty. Racing and hard riding are covered under our 5-year warranty. Niner does not cover normal wear and tear or damage from abuse, misuse, modification of the product, or improper installation/maintenance. Niner does not provide replacement parts when frame or component standards change on a new revision to a frame/component."

Warranty claims are denied for the following reasons:
1.	Damage is not due to a manufacturing or material defect.
2.	A rider is not the original owner or there is no proof of purchase.
3.	The frame is no longer under warranty, as the purchase falls outside of the period of coverage.

More specifically, the warranty process for this case followed the following timeline:

Sept. 7th-

​ The rider sent a warranty request directly to [email protected]

​ Because he was located locally (Denver), he was directed to our Niner Factory Store to submit his claim.

​ A claim was submitted from the Niner Factory Store with images of the damage, proof of purchase and the rider's contact information. 

​ The case was created and denied by the warranty department based on the images that were provided. The rider was approved for a "crash replacement" front triangle and Niner agreed to make an exception to our policy and ship the frame directly to his home. 

​ After the agreement was made the rider expressed in an email, "This problem is not my fault&#8230; not saying it is yours (Niner). How exactly do I fix it as cheaply as possible for me?"

​ It was explained that the issue that he was experiencing was not believed to be related to a manufacturing defect. 


Sept. 8th- 

​ The rider agreed to the purchase of the front triangle ($975 plus shipping)

​ Order was processed and shipped.

​ The rider contacted Jenson and to provide them with a copy of his sales receipt for the replacement FT, stating "Below is a receipt from Niner bikes for a new front triangle. It is my belief that Jenson USA is responsible due to improper installation of the seat post. I am seeking remediation from Jenson USA. Please let me know what you propose."

​ Warranty rep. from Jenson agreed to escalate the situation and states that "We will need to have the old front triangle and seat post saved and sent in as it will need to be inspected. Once it has been swapped out please hold onto it until we know if it needs to be sent to Niner for inspection." 

​ Jenson tells the rider that they are not agreeing to pay for the frame, but they did offer to replace his seat post.

Sept. 15th- 

The rider reached out to Jenson and Niner stating that the frame was being sent in.

Sept. 18th- 

Frame was delivered to Niner.

Sept. 20th- 

​ After receiving the frame in question, and at the request of the rider, a thorough evaluation was done to determine if the frozen seatpost was a warranty issue covered under our warranty policy.
 
​ Our evaluation required us to cut the frame open to examine what was causing the issue given that the seatpost had been broken and/or cut off leaving us no option for removal. After cutting the frame apart, it was effectively "destroyed" but it remains here at our facility, today.

​ In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we've learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate.

​ With the frame cut open, our team found heavy corrosion which caused the seatpost to become stuck. We do not consider corrosion a manufacturing (or material) defect on carbon frames and/or components. Corrosion on carbon frame is due to insufficient maintenance.

View attachment 1167733


View attachment 1167734


View attachment 1167735


View attachment 1167736


View attachment 1167737


View attachment 1167738


​ The rider contacted Jenson, "&#8230; it looks like a prep issue during the build. Hope to hear from you soon in regards to a solution. Thank you both for working with me." 


Oct. 9th 

Jenson responded to the rider's request for them to assume responsibility: 

​ Hey, -----, sorry it took a few days to get back to you about the ruling from Niner. We have read the email from -------- at Niner. Jenson USA agrees with Niner's response that this is a maintenance issue and Jenson USA is not responsible for the replacement of the front triangle. The rep at Niner does not suggest that the post was stuck due to a build issue, he states "We have no reason to assume that the post was installed incorrectly." Jenson agrees that the post may have been over-inserted into the frame which is not something that would be the result of the build process here. As for the use of carbon paste, the inspection by Niner was not conclusive, however our build process here is quality checked and Jenson USA can say with confidence that the carbon prep was used."

Jenson also notes. 

​ "We DO use carbon paste on all of our assemblies. HOWEVER, carbon paste is not an anti-corrosive-it is there as a friction-adding agent."

​ "While we did not offer to replace his frame-we did make efforts to help him out (for instance, we gave him a new dropper post). Much of the problem is that he went out and bought a new mainframe at retail and then tried to suggest that we should pay him for it."

​ All of this could have been avoided with proper care and handling during the 6 months that he enjoyed the bike.

​ No store with any objective opinion would indicate that an issue with a 6-month-old bike was "build related

​ We have sold many hundreds of bikes together of the years-you make a great product, and we handle them with care. This is the first such issue that we have shared. Try as I might, I can't find anything that either team could have done to prevent this gentleman's situation.


Oct. 10th -

​ The rider threatened a claim with the BBB.

​ The rider requested that his frame be returned to him.

​ At this point the case was moved out of the hands of our warranty department and communication ceased due to pending litigation.

As we worked through this claim, we support our initial evaluation that the seized post was a result of corrosion and not a manufacturing or material defect. The incident falls under our warranty policy as damage caused due to "improper installation/maintenance." This is not a manufacturing defect, as we found no structural issues inside the frame. Routine maintenance, inclusive of inspecting the seatpost, is a responsibility of the rider and/or a professional bike mechanic.

Niner stands behind our product and our warranty process. Our Rider Services team works diligently to ensure riders receive the individualized attention they deserve. We are sorry the process has taken as long as it has and escalated to this level. However, we wanted to make sure we gave this claim a thorough evaluation to make sure we didn't miss something through the digital warranty process. As riders ourselves we do everything possible to support riders within the boundaries of our warranty policy

Niner Bikes


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Apparently jenson usa installs magical carbon paste that disappears after 6 months. Sweet


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

Niner: Thanks for responding to this thread. Many of us Niner owners were following this thread closely.

I think Jenson uses FSA carbon paste and includes some packets with their carbon bikes. Not 100% on this but I have a bunch of packets that I'm pretty sure came with my Jenson bike purchases. FSA markets their carbon paste to protect from corrosion. If it was used, wouldn't some carbon paste still be present on the seatpost/frame after 6 months?

Also if the carbon inspection was not conclusive, why assume the seller is at fault?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Niner Bikes said:


> At Niner,


----------



## RacerLex (Jan 20, 2010)

WP Local said:


> Fairly accurate....
> I hope that everyone on this boards takeaway is that after only 6 months of use both Niner and Jenson USA refused to help a client with a catastrophic failure on a $4k bike.
> 
> This is even after they failed to understand what or why it happened.
> ...


Yeah this didn't end well for you, nor will it for Niner. Pretty sure they've lost some potential business over this. Unfortunate for everyone involved.


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

RacerLex said:


> FSA markets their carbon paste to protect from corrosion. If it was used, wouldn't some carbon paste still be present on the seatpost/frame after 6 months?


It stays there for a lot longer than 6 months. This is the company's "go away" response that the bike industry is so famous for.


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## dezzrat1 (Feb 28, 2014)

The end seems clear your a major company you take my frame and destroy it in the evaluation process without my authorization, well you owe me a frame regardless......


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Jenson should quit storing the carbon paste next to the superglue.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

WP Local said:


> Fairly accurate....
> I hope that everyone on this boards takeaway is that after only 6 months of use both Niner and Jenson USA refused to help a client with a catastrophic failure on a $4k bike.
> 
> This is even after they failed to understand what or why it happened.
> ...


Looks like they told yo exactly what happened, corrosion. I have to periodically check the posts in my steel frames for the same issue, even with Phi's grease in there I'll see signs of rust. Time to re-apply.


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

Glad to see this thread didn’t die.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

socal_jack said:


> Looks like they told yo exactly what happened, corrosion. I have to periodically check the posts in my steel frames for the same issue, even with Phi's grease in there I'll see signs of rust. Time to re-apply.


Carbon paste is more tacky than grease and doesn't just disappear from the seat tube. There's little doubt in my mind Jenson didn't fully coat the seat post with carbon paste or it wouldn't have corroded in the first place. Even if its been used in wet conditions.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Things I get from the Niner post.

1) It was corrosion that caused the bind.

2) Carbon Paste *IS NOT* an anti-seize compound. And if an anti-seize compound is necessary when installing a seatpost, and Jenson USA stated that they didn't use an anti-seize compound when installing the seatpost, they pretty much stated that they *installed it wrong*.

3) If it wasn't a manufacturing or material defect that caused the problem, as Niner concluded after destroying the frame, then Niner decided to destroy a perfectly good frame *without asking* the owner. Meaning they own him a new perfectly good frame.
There are ways to remove the aluminum seatpost without destroying the frame, both mechanical and chemical. They decided to destroy the frame to diagnose what caused the problem, again, without asking the owner, so how is this the owners fault?

So, Niner decided to destroy a perfectly good frame without asking the owner, and Jenson USA dind't install the seatpost correctly, because as they stated, they just used carbon-paste and not an anti-seize compound.

Thank you, Niner and Jenson USA, for your sincere clarification of the situation. I just added two more companies to my blacklist.

The solution is pretty simple, Niner you own the OP a new frame.
Jenson USA, you need to learn how to do your job.

Personal experience with aluminum seatposts, carbon frames, aluminum frames and anti-seize.

Take notice that I ride all year in all weather, I even take a bike with me when going to spend the weekend at the beach.

I have a carbon frame with a dropper installed in 09/2016, removed it last month for service. So 13 months without maintenance and it slipped out like silk.

I also have an aluminum frame with a dropper installed in 05/2017, removed it last month for service. So 5 months without maintenance and also slipped out like silk.

Common denominator is aluminum dropper posts and anti-seize applied during installation.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

While the timeline and details in Niner's response would be helpful for litigation, IMO, it is an epic marketing and public relations failure. 

Niner- Here is a free tip for future public relations challenges- If you’re defending, you’re losing.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

While we now fully understand the situation and the problem, I feel Niner and Jenson *failed *to appropriately handle the situation. A customer relations failure.

This could have been easily rectified to the complete satisfaction of all and not only ensured a loyal lifetime customer, but captured the devotion and commitment of many others in copy of this problem.

Instead, Niner and Jenson chose to defend their actions and take a protectionist stance. Their position has completely changed my mind about their commitment to customer service and the products they represent.

I have been a long time Jenson customer, but have never needed to utilize their customer service. Perhaps that's a good thing. As a direct result of the handling of this issue, I will not be doing any trade with either of these two businesses. A most unfortunate situation.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

there are no winners here

bike owner
Jenson
Niner
mtbr forum members


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

*42*

Just to


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> I think either company CAN do something about it.
> 
> I think both of them are unwilling.


Both companies *did* offer something. Niner sold him a new frame at the crash replacement price, and Jenson gave him a new seatpost. He accepted both offers.

OP: Following a resolution that you agreed to with legal action makes you an idiot IMO. If you wanted to protest their initial decision you should have done it before you got discounted/free stuff as compensation.

All you've done here is likely caused an additional barrier for future bike owners to file legitimate warranty claims. Buy your next bike at your LBS, or better yet take up jogging.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

127.0.0.1 said:


> there are no winners here
> 
> bike owner
> Jenson
> ...


^ This


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

WP Local said:


> ...As for the use of carbon paste, the inspection by Niner was not conclusive, however our build process here is quality checked and *Jenson USA can say with confidence that the carbon prep was used.*





WP Local said:


> ...This really only leaves one explanation, and that is corrosion, the only way that this can occur is if moisture makes its way into the seat tube i.e. sweat, or water. *If carbon prep has been installed, this will not be an issue.*


In summary, the 2 companies are contradicting each other and both sound like they are the discount bin of the bike industry.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Fajita Dave said:


> Carbon paste is more tacky than grease and doesn't just disappear from the seat tube. There's little doubt in my mind Jenson didn't fully coat the seat post with carbon paste or it wouldn't have corroded in the first place. Even if its been used in wet conditions.


And the paste usually is used for grip not corrosion prevention, would depend a lot on which paste was used.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

socal_jack said:


> And the paste usually is used for grip not corrosion prevention, would depend a lot on which paste was used.


There are tons of people using droppers in carbon mtb frames with carbon paste and corrostion doesn't seem to be an issue. Why would this situation be an exception? I'm pretty sure its because Jenson didn't coat the whole seat post with carbon paste.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Fajita Dave said:


> There are tons of people using droppers in carbon mtb frames with carbon paste and corrostion doesn't seem to be an issue. Why would this situation be an exception? I'm pretty sure its because Jenson didn't coat the whole seat post with carbon paste.


And I'm getting a strong whiff of idiot from the OP, probably wore it or wiped it off.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

The fact that Niner is in pending litigation and posted their timeline here is flat out dumb. They did nothing to help their cause and did a lot to lose a lot of future customers. That was a facepalm to read that. 

Destroying the owners frame without his permission was a bad move. 

The owner accepting a new seatpost and covering for a replacement front triangle was also a bad move.

Jensons poor assembly is also a bad move. Where is their QC?

Niner could resolve this from a PR situation by giving this guy a front triangle. Instead, they’re going to waste resources on this (legal, PR, partners, etc).

I’d like to hear jensons timeline too while they’re at it. This whole thing is a big facepalm.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

what a joke...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Niner Bikes said:


> ...
> 
> Oct. 9th
> 
> ...


Sorry to the OP. This did not work out at all.

So, does Niner suggest an anti-corrosion solution in their owner's manual?
If not carbon paste for seat post installation (and anti-corrosion), what is appropriate?
Why doesn't Jenson, as an authorized Niner dealer, know what the appropriate anti-corrosion preparation is? They are doing Niner a HUGE disservice by selling improperly prepped bicycles. As a supplier, I would require that my dealers represent my product as I would represent it. I hope Niner at least recommended that Jenson use metric allen wrenches instead of standard.

...or did the assembler at Jenson, just this one time, forget to apply carbon paste?

-F


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WP Local said:


> This is what I found out:
> *In what was their final hour to respond Niner just wrote the credit card company a 14-page rebuttal to my claim! OMG!*


I believe last minute submission is normal for lawyers. I doubt it was due to it not being ready earlier.



WP Local said:


> Niner won't discuss anything with me because of "pending litigation",
> 
> what a joke...
> 
> I told them if they didn't work with me towards a resolution I would go to Small Claims Court...


Same, I imagine their lawyers advised them not to discuss it any further, normal.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I kinda have the same sentiment as Fleas and 410sprint here and the general overall consensus. That was a rather weird post on an end user forum from a manufacturer. 

Something in those pics just doesn't square after 6 months. I've seen corrosion on that scale but it takes a looong time. Perhaps the seatpost was leaking or it swelled, or it got exposed to something corrosive? Either way the tolerance there seems REALLY tight to my eye. On the carbon bikes I've owned only the top 1/2"-3/4" of the seat tube have such a tolerance on the seatpost. 

It looks from the pics that the seatpost dropper body is split the full length & is overall mangled to hell. Op, is that from trying to remove it?

As mentioned a competent and clever mechanic could of mechanically removed that. If nothing else the dropper body/tube could have been folded in on itself. If you sent that to niner with hopes they were going to remove it they sure went about it from a bizarre approach.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

It amazing what these bikes cost, and how stingy they can be on the warranty claims. Call me crazy, but it seems like Jenson and Niner would get together and figure a way to provide a replacement. There really isn't a way to prove exactly what happened in this case. But losing a frame over a stuck seatpost is a big bummer.

Normally I'd expect Jenson should be the primary on this, since you bought the bike from them. I do realize that is not how it works in the mountain bike world though.

Based on my past experience with Jenson, I wouldn't buy by a built bike from them.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> I kinda hav


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

WP Local said:


> Just to let y'all know where I am at...
> 
> I started back in the first week of September with Jenson and Niner. They basically said "nope not our fault, good luck with your problems".
> 
> ...


wow!

i don't recall what you got out of it at first? was it a free dropper and a discounted frame? just trying to see both sides here as both companies may have thought that they compensated you-not perfect-but done.

so from that perspective I can see why neither has given in anymore.

I have never used carbon paste, but if it is anything like antisieze or phil's
grease I am skeptical of claims that corrosion forms after 6 months. either Jenson did not apply any, applied tiny insufficient amount, or user removed
post and cleaned and then forgot to re-apply, or something else?

maybe carbon posts corrode faster, I do not know?

but Jenson and Niner should know. Anyway, bummer of a situation for you. Stinks that they are not doing more for you. I'd like to think they would had you not agreed to whatever compensation earlier., but I doubt it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Jenson


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

In reality, seat post corrosion control is pretty elementary. Some are over thinking this. 

Common grease on the lower portion of the seat post while keeping it clear of the immediate clamping area for obvious purposes. Go ahead and use carbon paste in the clamped area if that's what you need, but I don't use it there cause I have never experienced any slippage of the seat post.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

WP Local said:


> Worse thing that happens when you fight with a customer is you might win.


I cannot help thinking Niner's and Jenson's competitors are laughing their asses off reading the overall reaction to this train wreck...


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

410sprint said:


> I cannot help thinking Niner's and Jenson's competitors are laughing their asses off reading the overall reaction to this train wreck...


no

it is a mess all around, but I guarantee no other bike maker is laughing about this. this is a flea on the bike industry and Niner/Jenson, not an earthquake


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

niner admits destroying the customer frame without his permission 

"In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we’ve learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate."

they own him a new frame, period! Give this guy a new frame Niner, you destroyed his frame without his authorization!

Never buying a Niner or anything from Jenson again!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

mfa81 said:


> niner admits destroying the customer frame without his permission
> 
> "In hindsight, it was our mistake at this point to not inform the rider that the frame was going to have to be cut open to evaluate it. We made an incorrect assumption that the rider understood that this would be necessary given the condition of the seatpost in the frame. This is something that we've learned from and are changing our process to include an additional step of communication when frames need to be destroyed to evaluate."
> 
> ...


agreed.

yup, niner should man-up and eat the cost
of his new frame.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> no
> 
> it is a mess all around, but I guarantee no other bike maker is laughing about this. this is a flea on the bike industry and Niner/Jenson, not an earthquake


Oh they are laughing, no doubt about that. Leaders of business big and small love to watch competitors piss off customers. Its the easiest new business you will ever get. You'd be surprised at the damage this has done to Niner/Jenson. Neither are big enough absorb this without damage to their top line and reputation. The overall sentiment on the two threads discussing this issue is bad for both brands. The threads have been read over 8,500 times and unless pulled down by the Mod's will stay on the web forever. Not exactly a good thing for business....


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

410sprint said:


> Oh they are laughing, no doubt about that. Leaders of business big and small love to watch competitors piss off customers. Its the easiest new business you will ever get. You'd be surprised at the damage this has done to Niner/Jenson. Neither are big enough absorb this without damage to their top line and reputation. The overall sentiment on the two threads discussing this issue is bad for both brands. The threads have been read over 8,500 times and unless pulled down by the Mod's will stay on the web forever. Not exactly a good thing for business....


This thread influenced my decision to not buy a Niner. I'm still on the fence about Jenson, I haven't bought anything from them since, but I'm not saying I won't.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Niner is officially off of my list. I’ll never, ever trade with them. I’ve mostly moved on from Jenson anyway, this just nailed the coffin shut. Too many options out there to bother with this kind of silliness and complete disregard for the end user. Fug em both.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

i thought the frame was returned as a condition for the warranty crash replacement triangle?

i recently had a warranty claim with another brand and they asked for it back andI sent it.

i removed headset but I suppose i could have kept the rear triangle. and shock and sold them? i was too happy about the replacement frame to care.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Did you pay for that replacement frame, or was it a full warranty?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Did you pay for that replacement frame, or was it a full warranty?


Paid for it...


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

cjsb said:


> i thought the frame was returned as a condition for the warranty crash replacement triangle?
> 
> i recently had a warranty claim with another brand and they asked for it back andI sent it.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you were taken care Of!
What company?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

cjsb said:


> i thought the frame was returned as a condition for the warranty crash replacement triangle?
> 
> i recently had a warranty claim with another brand and they asked for it back andI sent it.
> 
> i removed headset but I suppose i could have kept the rear triangle. and shock and sold them? i was too happy about the replacement frame to care.





Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Did you pay for that replacement frame, or was it a full warranty?





WP Local said:


> Paid for it...


I'm referring to CJSB...did he pay for his frame.

I know that you had to pay for yours OP.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

askibum02 said:


> This thread influenced my decision to not buy a Niner.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My current frame is nearing the end of its life expectancy. Based on this thread, Niner is off the list of potential replacements. What I'm hearing from them is that they are more interested in what their legal obligations are under warranty as opposed what is the most equitable/fair resolution for their (former) customer.

Bad form Niner. Bad form.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Did you pay for that replacement frame, or was it a full warranty?


Mine is full warranty, no payment.

if everyone understood that the frame gets returned to the owner then Niner is obligated to send it back.

However, if it is their requirement for warranty or crash replacement treatment then different story.

After reading the Niner response again, it sounds as if they do it this way and failed to communicate clearly. In general, I can see why a company requires the frame be returned.

But Since they admit that this was not communicated they should compensate the OP for the rear triangle (assuming he sent it in), and or the salvage value of the destroyed frame. When you go down this sort of rabbit hole for "compensation" they should simply give him a complete frame set at either a discount below crash replacement or no charge, or give $__ credit to spend at Jenson.

One would like to think that companies that you purchased from have your back on these expensive purchases, so long as it is within the warranty terms, but the OP should not have assumed this when he agreed to compensation. It is the one thing that could have resulted in a different outcome that was within his control. It is unfortunate but it does muddy the waters a lot in terms of trying to get more compensation after that agreement.

Personally, if I had not been at fault in this situation I would be furious with Jenson because it seems more likely it was their fault--and just as furious with Niner after reading their response, for siding with jenson based on ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, except Jenson told us they always do it right.

Well, I always do everything perfectly too, Niner, and the Titanic was unsinkable, and I am now out $Xk. Thanks for nothing!

The failure to return the frame now is a secondary issue, but given what has transpired Niner could provide additional compensation, especially given their own admission about no communication. But if you are the OP do not hold your breath waiting for that check.

Brands in my garage right now: Santa Cruz, Knolly, Canfield, Trek, Spawn. Brand I got great warranty from in past--Santa Cruz and Specialized.

Never had a Niner, and after this treatment sure wouldn't consider one in the future. I had moved on from jenson prior to this thread, but if they want some feedback from someone who spends a lot of money on bikes and stuff: Competitive Cyclist and Universal Cycles blow your doors off!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

My lbs dropped Niner over **** like this. Wanted them to lie to a customer, the shop took the customer side and dropped them. Because they knew that he would tell everyone on the local scene and even though it was the same middleman situation they know they would have got blamed. 

When you go out to eat and it sucks you tell all your friends, man x cafe sucks and then when iy gets brought up its like oh sue and jon said that x cafe was really bad the last time they went, boom. Business is diverted elsewhere. 

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

$975 for a made in taiwan or vietnam front triangle? lolz.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Schulze said:


> $975 for a made in taiwan or vietnam front triangle? lolz.


What is the bike that you ride?


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

So suddenly after making all this stink the OP pulls his posts

So I’m thinking one of two things happened. 1-He was threatened by Niner’s attorneys. Or 2. They made a settlement with him where the terms were he removed and negative statements.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

WTF? I see this too?


Ok OP, whats up?


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## Millennial29erGuy (Feb 5, 2017)

Looks like the niner mafia has infiltrated his mtbr account


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> WTF? I see this too?
> 
> Ok OP, whats up?


Hes being smart about it. Its in the legal realm now.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=1058690

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

fiveo said:


> So suddenly after making all this stink the OP pulls his posts
> 
> So I'm thinking one of two things happened. 1-He was threatened by Niner's attorneys. Or 2. They made a settlement with him where the terms were he removed and negative statements.


No settlement....no threats from Niner either.
I just came here looking for advice....not comfortable with where it was going....

I didn't want people to stop buying Niner or using Jenson....i am just one person who had a shitty problem that didn't get fixed the way I expected. I am not out to ruin either company.

I don't like Niner and wouldnt recommend them....but seriously...what the hell do I know?


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

I would think the OP doesn’t have much of a case in court. And that his best option would be in the court of public opinion. Aka on forums like this one. But Niner has already called his bluff. They have proven they don’t care about their customers. Of for that matter, any future customers.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

LaneDetroitCity said:


> Hes being smart about it. Its in the legal realm now.
> 
> Bit of unfortunate Niner warranty drama...- Mtbr.com
> 
> Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


I have not taken any legal action at this time....


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

WP Local said:


> I have not taken any legal action at this time....


I was thinking from Niner. As in they are making this a "legal" matter with you now instead of a help a customer get his ride on matter anymore. I have my own niner story so following this seems par for course. I can empathize with you how this thread turned into a lynch mob situation where suddenly you are both defending yourself and trying to provide information. Its unfortunate you have to let this interrupt your flow.

If you put your hand in a river it doesnt stop, it just flows around it

Dont let this affect your passion one ounce

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

fiveo said:


> I would think the OP doesn't have much of a case in court. And that his best option would be in the court of public opinion. Aka on forums like this one. But Niner has already called his bluff. They have proven they don't care about their customers. Of for that matter, any future customers.


Seriously....I am just one person who had poor experience. We spend LOTS on these toys and I expected more from Niner after 6 months of limited use (who checks their seatpost that regularly anyway).

I have not heard from Niner since Oct 10 2017. The former President of Niner Mike Gann, now works for Look Cycles as of Nov 13th.

I am still pissed...but am tired of it...


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

WP Local said:


> Seriously....I am just one person who had poor experience. We spend LOTS on these toys and I expected more from Niner after 6 months of limited use (who checks their seatpost that regularly anyway).
> 
> I have not heard from Niner since Oct 10 2017. The former President of Niner Mike Gann, now works for Look Cycles as of Nov 13th.
> 
> I am still pissed...but am tired of it...


Ebay that frame man, get a used frame you lik and slap those parts on it. Get your fire back.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

Fleas said:


> ...or did the assembler at Jenson, just this one time, forget to apply carbon paste?
> 
> -F


That's what I think. I said it in the other thread too, but in my business, even scientists/engineers screw up and don't follow procedures sometimes, both intentionally (trying to take a shortcut) or unintentionally (just forgot). Even QC procedures like checklists don't prevent all errors like this. If scientists/engineers screw up sometimes, bike assemblers at Jenson probably screw up sometimes too.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

WP Local said:


> No settlement....no threats from Niner either.
> I just came here looking for advice....not comfortable with where it was going....
> 
> I didn't want people to stop buying Niner or using Jenson....i am just one person who had a shitty problem that didn't get fixed the way I expected. I am not out to ruin either company.
> ...


You realize how many people actually read this before you deleted your original posts? You know when you posted you were going to impact people's perception.

You post something like this, especially the chain of communication, you have a good clue of what you're doing.

Otherwise, you should have hired a lawyer and not posted on an active MTB forum about it.

Sorry things didn't go your way-I wanted them to get you a new frame for them destroying you old one-but when you remove stuff because you don't look like the way things are going, well, you don't do yourself or anyone else who ended up in the same situation any favors.

At this point, you should get something else and go ride. You did definitely make people aware of a crappy situation, and I'm hoping this means others will speak up when things go wrong as well.

As others said, go get your stoke back. Sell the Niner, ride something that makes you happy.


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

stripes said:


> You realize how many people actually read this before you deleted your original posts? You know when you posted you were going to impact people's perception.
> 
> You post something like this, especially the chain of communication, you have a good clue of what you're doing.


Some of the posters were suggesting that Niner could or should sue him. I read both threads, and there was nothing that the OP posted that was libel against Niner or Jenson. There was some lack of information at the beginning about the exact situation, such as whether the seatpost could move when it was initially delivered (yes was the eventual answer), and some speculation, but no false accusations. The OP was spooked by the Niner defenders into thinking he might get sued. Anyone can get sued, but there's no chance that Niner or Jenson would win such a case based on the OP's posts here thus far.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

xcandrew said:


> Some of the posters were suggesting that Niner could or should sue him. I read both threads, and there was nothing that the OP posted that was libel against Niner or Jenson. There was some lack of information at the beginning about the exact situation, such as whether the seatpost could move when it was initially delivered (yes was the eventual answer), and some speculation, but no false accusations. The OP was spooked by the Niner defenders into thinking he might get sued. Anyone can get sued, but there's no chance that Niner or Jenson would win such a case based on the OP's posts here thus far.


I missed the second thread on this. Only following here. Thanks for the heads up.

No, someone screwed up, and Niner even admitted their mistake in destroying the frame.

Yeah it's a shame he got spooked from the Niner defenders saying they could sue him but I ageee-Niner wouldn't have a case.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

xcandrew said:


> Some of the posters were suggesting that Niner could or should sue him. I read both threads, and there was nothing that the OP posted that was libel against Niner or Jenson. There was some lack of information at the beginning about the exact situation, such as whether the seatpost could move when it was initially delivered (yes was the eventual answer), and some speculation, but no false accusations. The OP was spooked by the Niner defenders into thinking he might get sued. Anyone can get sued, but there's no chance that Niner or Jenson would win such a case based on the OP's posts here thus far.


It isn't about whether the OP would ultimately prevail in court. Depending in what suit was filed against the OP, they may need to hire an attorney to defend. That gets way more expensive then the frame cost that was paid. If the OP won, then, depending on jurisdiction, would determine if they could recoup attorney fees. However I doubt Niner has any real interest in going this route.

The OP was the one that threatened legal action I beleive, not Niner. I could be wrong, but I think that is accurate.

I still have an opinion that the OP effectively settled with both Jenson and Niner when he accepted their offers of the new dropper post and crash replacement frame. It's irrelevant that he decided afterwards that he wasn't happy. As far as the return of the original frame... I think Niner requested it be sent in to them for evaluation. The OP probably thought this would go easy and would be covered until warranty. When it wasn't, they settled on a crash replacement deal. This is where it's gets sketchy. Niner will argue that they had to cut the frame to investigate the issue. They will also say that the OP agreed to this by sending in the frame and asking for a warranty evaluation be done. If this was a crack, Niner would do the same. If they found it was an impact fracture, the same type of end result would have hepoened. Likely the OP would never think of asking for it back. Santa Cruz recently replaced a frame for my friend. The LBS took pictures and communicated with SC. Santa Cruz sent new frame but required the LBS to cut the old frame in 2 and send a picture. I have seen the same for Race Face carbon cranks. Same thing really. So there is no real value to a cut frame to sue for, if this was going to be the demise of the frame anyhow.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

The deletion of the op's inputs was completely lame. 

He was offered a lot of support from the community then deletes his posts leaving everyone hanging. Anyone coming to this thread will be baffled and have no idea what the facts are. 

Nowhere on Niner's site does it define there warranty that I can find. Only a crappy FAQ section about warranty issues. 

STEP UP TO THE PLATE NINER and clearly outline your warranty in an easy to find, conspicuous location. It might be there, but it's not obvious.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> The deletion of the op's inputs was completely lame.
> 
> He was offered a lot of support from the community then deletes his posts leaving everyone hanging. Anyone coming to this thread will be baffled and have no idea what the facts are.
> 
> ...


Sorry....
I don't disagree with you. It may not have been the right call but I got nervous when people started discussing lawsuits.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

WP Local said:


> Sorry....
> I don't disagree with you. It may not have been the right call but I got nervous when people started discussing lawsuits.


I totally get why you did it. It would be a horrible brand move if they did but so would destroying a frame that doesn't have to be without authorization...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

bogeydog said:


> It isn't about whether the OP would ultimately prevail in court. Depending in what suit was filed against the OP, they may need to hire an attorney to defend. That gets way more expensive then the frame cost that was paid. If the OP won, then, depending on jurisdiction, would determine if they could recoup attorney fees. However I doubt Niner has any real interest in going this route.
> 
> The OP was the one that threatened legal action I beleive, not Niner. I could be wrong, but I think that is accurate.
> 
> ...


This doesn't make sense at all. First of all, what could Niner file suit about? The OP didn't do anything wrong here. He told his story, and didn't lie about any of it. You are one of the guys that I was referring to, who scared the OP in the other thread, saying:

_Also know that if they want to get hard on you, they will pull every post from this forum and check for accuracy. Then turn around and file a large suit against you for slander and liable. Careful, you media attacks may get you in trouble. I just know that your story has some inconsistencies throughout your posts from the beginning._

I read both threads before any deletions, and the only "inconsistencies" were clearly not slander. It was the OP not understanding why the seatpost was stuck, so there was speculation by him and others that the reason might be this or that. None of that could be considered slander, and none of it was a "media attack". I thought he was fairly respectful of both Niner and Jenson throughout, but, with good reason, not agreeing with the way he was treated.

I didn't say Niner threatened legal action. I can't even imagine a legitimate cause based on what I read in these threads. I said that posters like you were saying that Niner could/should threaten legal action. The OP/and or supporters of the OP was considering filing a small claims. That would be just to recover what he lost, not to make a statement or anything. There are no lawyers involved in small claims court. That's much different than what you are suggesting.

You're last paragraph is way off base and contradicts in many ways what Niner said themselves in their response posted above. I agree that it was bad optics for the OP to accept the discount from Niner and the seatpost from Jenson. But that was not the end of it. All you have to do is read Niner's response line by line to see what you are saying is wrong.

On Sept 8, Jenson agreed to escalate the warranty claim. At the same time, they offered a seatpost, but not agreeing to pay for the frame yet. So the seatpost given to the OP was not an agreement to end everything. The Jenson request for Niner to inspect the frame means that, yes, they were still escalating the claim and getting the cost of the frame back was still a possibility for the OP. That hope that Jenson (or Niner) might still cover the frame is why the OP sent the frame in. Note that Niner did not request the frame in exchange for the discount. That was already offered to the OP the day before.

I think you owe an apology to the OP.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

bogeydog said:


> I still have an opinion that the OP effectively settled with both Jenson and Niner when he accepted their offers of the new dropper post and crash replacement frame. It's irrelevant that he decided afterwards that he wasn't happy. As far as the return of the original frame... I think Niner requested it be sent in to them for evaluation. The OP probably thought this would go easy and would be covered until warranty. When it wasn't, they settled on a crash replacement deal. This is where it's gets sketchy. Niner will argue that they had to cut the frame to investigate the issue. They will also say that the OP agreed to this by sending in the frame and asking for a warranty evaluation be done. If this was a crack, Niner would do the same. If they found it was an impact fracture, the same type of end result would have hepoened. Likely the OP would never think of asking for it back. Santa Cruz recently replaced a frame for my friend. The LBS took pictures and communicated with SC. Santa Cruz sent new frame but required the LBS to cut the old frame in 2 and send a picture. Same thing really. So there is no real value to a cut frame to sue for, if this was going to be the demise of the frame anyhow.
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


So the seatpost is stuck in the frame.....OP sends the frame in for evaluation. Niner says it is not a warranty issue. Says we can crash replace it for $XXX. What if OP says, I just paid $XXXX for your bike, can't afford to do the crash replacement, I'll make the damaged frame work.

Basically sending the frame in puts the OP in a jam......either he gets a new frame for free....or is forced to buy a new frame.

The SC example above is different. Sounds like they covered a new frame under warranty. They did the same thing for me when I broke my Highball.....I sent them pics, they sent me a new frame and told me to either send the old frame back or cut the BB shell out and just send that back. They want to make sure that the warrantied frame was destroyed.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

xcandrew said:


> This doesn't make sense at all. First of all, what could Niner file suit about? The OP didn't do anything wrong here. He told his story, and didn't lie about any of it. You are one of the guys that I was referring to, who scared the OP in the other thread, saying:
> 
> _Also know that if they want to get hard on you, they will pull every post from this forum and check for accuracy. Then turn around and file a large suit against you for slander and liable. Careful, you media attacks may get you in trouble. I just know that your story has some inconsistencies throughout your posts from the beginning._
> 
> ...


Cheers. Im glad reasonable people like you still exist. Able to process without emotional attachment. You really laid out your thoughts and the situation.

The OP wasnt looking to smash Niner. He was looking for opinions about the seatpost which quickly turned into, """ thats some bs id go after niner/jenson, thats their fault", which turned into 60 minutes with people saying OP fault/niner fault. Unless youve been in this situation its hard to empathize, buts it easy to criticise. So lets try and think abou if you spent like 4 grand and bought a soap opera not a bike. We ride bikes to escape the drama not create more.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I can relate to how the OP feels. I started a similar thread which created an s-storm, then at some point you get tired of it and just want to move on.

I feel obligated to report negative experiences with vendors when they occur. When doing so, we should all try to be accurate and keep it factual. Then it's up to the other users to decide if the report is credible, and what if anything the information means to them. If nothing else it's a data point.


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## fiveo (Apr 26, 2006)

I agree. It was kinda lame to delete the post. 80% of people on this forum were Pro Op. Con Niner. A lot of us supported you and were vocal in our distain on how you were treated. I get it’s only the internet and you have no true connection to other members. But I believe in strength in numbers and you prob had Niner on the ropes. There was almost 2 pages of negative PR against Niner and Jensen. 

I think a more appropriate response would have been something like...

Thank you for all your response and support. I have decided to move on 

As a side note. I dropped my 2018 Jet off at my LBS today to swap and fork air shaft. Asked about seat post maintenance. Was told to leave it be. As to not mess with things and mess up the dropper. 

Good luck man. 

And one last time. Bad play Niner.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

bogeydog said:


> I still have an opinion that the OP effectively settled with both Jenson and Niner when he accepted their offers of the new dropper post and crash replacement frame. It's irrelevant that he decided afterwards that he wasn't happy.


The problem with this opinion is that you are assuming facts. It is possible that OP decided to purchase the frame AND that he expected reimbursement for the purchase at a later date. For example, it is possible that Niner said you can purchase a new front triangle while we evaluate, and we will refund you if we decide it is a warranty issue. In fact, that was my read of the post.

The only way that they had an agreement to settle is if they actually came to that agreement (i.e. both sides agreed to settle and communicated that to the other) - and no where in this thread did OP ever say that. In fact, I believe he said the opposite.

In any case, I will be telling everyone I know that expresses an interest in Niner about this debacle.


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## LaneDetroitCity (Nov 10, 2015)

kpdemello said:


> The problem with this opinion is that you are assuming facts. It is possible that OP decided to purchase the frame AND that he expected reimbursement for the purchase at a later date. For example, it is possible that Niner said you can purchase a new front triangle while we evaluate, and we will refund you if we decide it is a warranty issue. In fact, that was my read of the post.
> 
> The only way that they had an agreement to settle is if they actually came to that agreement (i.e. both sides agreed to settle and communicated that to the other) - and no where in this thread did OP ever say that. In fact, I believe he said the opposite.
> 
> In any case, I will be telling everyone I know that expresses an interest in Niner about this debacle.


Exactly. He bought the front triangle because he figured ill buy the triangle, send in the other one, they will see Jenson forgot the paste, handle it with Jenson, get me a refund. He had more faith in them than he should have obviously.

Sent from my SM-G360P using Tapatalk


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

fiveo said:


> I agree. It was kinda lame to delete the post. 80% of people on this fourim were Pro Op. Con Niner. A lot of us supported you and were vocal in our distain on how you were treated. I get it's only the internet and you have no true connection to other members. But I believe in strength in numbers and you prob had Niner on the ropes. There was almost 2 pages on negative PR against Niner and Jensen.
> 
> I think a more appropriate response would have been something like...
> 
> ...


I agree...in hindsight it was lame and I am sorry. Thank you everyone for your support.

Dear Niner
Next time please use lubricant


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

WP Local said:


> I agree...in hindsight it was lame and I am sorry. Thank you everyone for your support.
> 
> Dear Niner
> Next time please use lubricant


Lol. Sure to have been less painful that way.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> What is the bike that you ride?


As a "crash replacement" price it is pretty silly. As a replacement price for a frame they destroyed without permission, it's ludacris.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Schulze said:


> $975 for a made in taiwan or vietnam front triangle? lolz.





Cleared2land said:


> What is the bike that you ride?





Schulze said:


> As a "crash replacement" price it is pretty silly. As a replacement price for a frame they destroyed without permission, it's ludacris.


Well, I'm guessing that you choose to not answer this question after making your statement because you knew where it was going.

Your profile say that you ride a Cannondale.

Cannondale bicycles are manufactured and assembled in China and Taichung, Taiwan.

That seems to be interesting.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

op

this thread used to be interesting

but it's devolving, by your hand

the more you keep re-editing your posts
like the first one, every day there is some new comment

now it is <sigh>

this is now way more about you and your personal wish to be noticed
and you feel there is some lack of attention
that reporting an actual problem with niner

keep editing it, really, I expect you'll figure out how to transmit
the salt of your tears via TCP/IP one day

-----

it's your DRAMA now, no longer just a consumer issue

to neg me hit the little 6 pointed star over there on the lower left


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> op
> 
> this thread used to be interesting
> 
> ...


Wasn't my intention but I get it. 
I agree it is devolving and I am not helping.
I need to let this Go!

Thanks for pointing it out.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

Schulze said:


> As a "crash replacement" price it is pretty silly. As a replacement price for a frame they destroyed without permission, it's ludacris.


Ludacris is a rapper, ludicrous is a word.


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## mileslong (Aug 20, 2016)

WP Local said:


> Wasn't my intention but I get it.
> I agree it is devolving and I am not helping.
> I need to let this Go!
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out.


Perhaps it's just my cynical nature, but I have never ridden a bike I have purchased, new or pre-owned, without a complete check of every nut, bolt, bearing, fitting, spoke etc etc. To trust blindly trust anyone with my investment, and my safety, just doesn't work for me.

It may help you get over this loss if you accept some responsibility for the oversight of no anti-seize on the seatpost.


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## Slowdownhill (Oct 20, 2015)

From a "would this have worked" perspective: to induce fast, differential cooling to the post and frame apply dry ice to the post to shrink the post more than the frame & thereby separate the two?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I think that theory of heating/cooling works under the best of normal conditions, but given the observed corrosion levels, I have reason to believe a freeze/heat application would have failed completely. Freeze/heat has no release effect on dissimilar related corrosion (that I'm aware of). As a note, I have plenty of background experience with this technique, but not in bicycle applications.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I chose not to answer your question directly because we both know it's idiotic posturing that has nothing to do with the point. 

capeesh?


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

mileslong said:


> Ludacris is a rapper, ludicrous is a word.


Like I said. it's ludicris.


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## Rock (Jan 13, 2004)

Are things making more sense now with the "Chapter 11" stuff?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Rock said:


> Are things making more sense now with the "Chapter 11" stuff?


Just makes me sad for them... it shows how poorly they must have been running the company.

I bet someone made more money off of this than they should have...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Sad for company, but is ok with parting with $975.00


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Sad for company, but is ok with parting with $975.00


It's logical. For someone to get that company to where they did they poured heart, soul, body and mind into it. You can dislike their practices but still be empathetic to their plight.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

There is no question that every successful organization that has achieved the level of these companies, has poured heart, soul, body and mind into it.

The unfortunate portion to this story is their success was achieved on a quality product, that remains a quality product. We all can see the weak link. 

That is indeed sad.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

mileslong said:


> Perhaps it's just my cynical nature, but I have never ridden a bike I have purchased, new or pre-owned, without a complete check of every nut, bolt, bearing, fitting, spoke etc etc. To trust blindly trust anyone with my investment, and my safety, just doesn't work for me.


I am in this camp also but not everyone has the knowledge , the time to invest in learning it, or the desire to do so. Back when I first started riding, I had little time or inclination to learn bike maintenance so I had the LBS do it. I know better now and don't trust most LBS's to be competent.

I bought a new bike online and found numerous issues after giving it a once over, including a bone dry seat post.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> Sad for company, but is ok with parting with $975.00


Yeah...I didnt like their policies or how they handled my problem but I did not want to see them fail. These are people's lives and livelihood....now everyone who has a Niner loses....no more warranty....no more specialty parts ( bottom bracket pivots unique to Niner)....everyone involved with Niner from employees, customers, suppliers all lose....

I still bet someone made off though.....


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^^ It's not all over with, so don't paint such as doom picture.

The new acquisition that Columbia Basin Partners are attempting to execute will hopefully breathe new life into the Niner brand if all goes as planned.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^^ It's not all over with, so don't paint such as doom picture.
> 
> The new acquisition that Columbia Basin Partners are attempting to execute will hopefully breathe new life into the Niner brand if all goes as planned.


I saw this happen with Titus cycles...when this deal goes through your Niner manufacturer warranty is over. The new company will have zero reason to honor it and most likely won't even call the new business Niner Cycles anymore.

This is a slimey business practice...going chapter 11 to sell your company debt free should be a crime.
Think of the suppliers who have been providing Niner with product that won't get paid...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Hold on there. I think that you're confusing Chapter 11 with Chapter 7*



WP Local said:


> I saw this happen with Titus cycles...when this deal goes through your Niner manufacturer warranty is over. The new company will have zero reason to honor it and most likely won't even call the new business Niner Cycles anymore.
> 
> *This is a slimey business practice...going chapter 11 to sell your company debt free should be a crime.
> Think of the suppliers who have been providing Niner with product that won't get paid...*


Chapter 11 is reorganization where the debtor has to negotiate and work with all vendors while continuing business.

Chapter 7 is liquidation. To each his own in recovery of accounts payable.

Chapter 11 requires that a trustee be appointed. However, rather than selling off all assets to pay back creditors, the trustee supervises the assets of the debtor and allows business to continue. It's important to note that debt is not absolved in Chapter 11. The restructuring only changes the terms of the debt, and the firm must continue to pay it back through future earnings.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^^ It's not all over with, so don't paint such as doom picture.
> 
> The new acquisition that Columbia Basin Partners are attempting to execute will hopefully breathe new life into the Niner brand if all goes as planned.


If all goes as planned are the key words. The Columbia Basin acquisition isn't a sure thing. According to the article I read Sugai said they had been working together for a while and that he hoped the deal went through with them. Why didn't they come to an agreement before the bankruptcy filing? I don't pretend to understand business, but something seems off in the whole deal.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I hear they're going to restart as a manufacturer of bikes for Walmart.

I imagine the purchaser will keep the Niner name, that's one of the most valuable assets; trying to build a whole new brand would take a good while.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

chazpat said:


> I hear they're going to restart as a manufacturer of bikes for Walmart.
> 
> I imagine the purchaser will keep the Niner name, that's one of the most valuable assets; trying to build a whole new brand would take a good while.


That would be great!!!
From a customer service standpoint Wal-Mart would be a huge step up😁


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I have not looked at anything other than the BRAIN article linked. It sounds like the two cannot yet agree on an acquisition price due to Niner's debt. This process in Chapter 11 may help them come to agreement once the debt is restructured, or it may provide some idea as to what others in the market value Niner as a brand with the restructured debt. Quite possible that someone else ends up owning Niner.

Given the description of what Niner intends to do under new ownership it sounds like they didn't change with the times. That is odd given that the company was formed to meet a demand that the rest of the industry ignored or considered a fad.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

WP Local said:


> This is a slimey business practice...going chapter 11 to sell your company debt free should be a crime.
> Think of the suppliers who have been providing Niner with product that won't get paid...


Actually, Bankrupty is a wonderful US invention that is much better than the alternative. As someone said above, you don't get out of your debts via a chapter 11 (though there are some grounds to get certain kinds of debt either reduced).

Consider if Niner were not able to declare bankruptcy, the company would go out of business, with very little chance for creditors (or warranty holders) to recover without an expensive court proceeding. Through bankruptcy, a court and trustee supervises the process of either distributing the leftover assets of the company, or helping the company effectively re-organize and continue in existence. All a creditor needs to do is submit a proof of claim to get a piece of the leftovers.

The problem is not the bankruptcy system but with a company that poorly managed their finances and ended up in financial trouble. The bankruptcy system is actually a pretty fair way of dividing up what's left after financial disaster, and the court/trustee has broad authority (and the trustee has a lot of motivation) to look into the finances of the company, even before they declared bankruptcy, to make sure nobody did anything unscrupulous.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

the trustee has tremendous power/authority. 

will be interesting to see whether other companies step in and offer those holding the debt something better than Columbia. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

There are many assumptions being made here regarding how finances were being handled. Their balance sheet doesn't reflect disaster, but more lending to stagnation with an inability to stimulate growth and maintain profits.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I didn't mean to suggest that Niner specifically did anything to mismanage their finances or whatever. I was just talking generalities about bankruptcy proceedings.

As to Niner, somebody posted in another forum that the company is filing ch 11 just to sell the company, and that the buyer intends to grow the brand. That suggests to me that they have every incentive to honor their warranties (and I believe they would be contractually obligated to do so if they intend to carry on the Niner name).


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

. this explains everything. they are busy shelling the org


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Given my very limited understanding of the discussions, the acquisition will assume all liabilities and will likely continue to honor existing warranty claims. All bets are little more than assumptions until further information is released.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

*Niner Won.*

Just wanted to give a final update on this.

After a 4+ month long dispute, I lost and Niner won. I never did go through small claims, and still may decide to do so, but went through my credit card company.

Thank you for the advice (both pro and con).

My lesson learned is to buy local (not online)


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Just wanted to give a final update on this.

After a 4+ month long dispute, I lost and Niner won. I never did go through small claims, and still may decide to do so, but went through my credit card company.

Thank you for the advice (both pro and con). 

My lesson learned is to buy local (not online)


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

And what was the outcome of soliciting assistance of the credit card company?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> And what was the outcome of soliciting assistance of the credit?


To date Niner has not done anything.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I asked about the recourse often afforded by the credit card company. Are you implying that Niner has done nothing to respond to the requests of the credit card company?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Niner submitted a 14 page response that was unconstrained by morals or ethics.

I responded but Niner never responded back.

According to my CC, Niner denied the chargeback based on their one and only response.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

Niner actually went to my Facebook and Strava accounts to show that I was enjoying and using the product when they submitted their counter.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cleared2land said:


> I asked about the recourse often afforded by the credit card company. Are you implying that Niner has done nothing to respond to the requests of the credit card company?


Sounds like Niner has washed their hands of it. But there should be recourse through the credit card company or he needs to go to small claims.


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## dezzrat1 (Feb 28, 2014)

I thought you purchased your niner from Jensen??


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

WP Local said:


> Niner actually went to my Facebook and Strava accounts to show that I was enjoying and using the product when they submitted their counter.


Wow, that's pretty shady of a tactic.


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

dezzrat1 said:


> I thought you purchased your niner from Jensen??


I did....
But had to make the claim with Niner as it was a warranty issue.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Wow, no freaking way will Niner ever ever get one dime from me. I can't recall all the details but I didn't necessarily agree with the OP at every turn in this saga. However Niner really should have stepped up to the plate to make things right, if only for PR reasons.


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## MasterBaker (Oct 25, 2014)

Hmmm... which came first, the moral bankruptcy of Niner or the financial bankruptcy? Chicken vs egg here, probably wouldn’t have one without the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mookie said:


> Wow, no freaking way will Niner ever ever get one dime from me. I can't recall all the details but I didn't necessarily agree with the OP at every turn in this saga. However Niner really should have stepped up to the plate to make things right, if only for PR reasons.


Yep, and to think they were on my short list for a time on what bike I was going to get next.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Outcome? My assumption is that the CC Company accepted Niner's response, denied your claim and closed the case?


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## WP Local (Jun 25, 2006)

*Huh?!!!??? I won?*

Crazy day...

After a month+ of thinking I lost my case against Niner, I received a letter today from my CC company today saying it has been reviewed and resolved in my favor.

It is also stated in the letter I received that this credit is a permanent credit.

so I checked my CC statement and sure enough the credit has been applied.

I wish I could say that this changed my opinion of Niner... it doesn't...but I am happy with what appears to be the ultimate outcome being in my favor.

-WP


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

That's great news.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

EXCELLENT! 

Congratulations!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Yeah, that's really good news. Happy for you :0) Thanks for sharing.


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## Grassington (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm pleased to hear you got your refund, WP Local - it was ultimately Niner's responsibility if they supplied the bike to the distributors with the seatpost fitted to the frame. There's been some criticism of Niner for destroying the frame during their investigation, but to be fair to them they had no other option, and even if they could somehow devise a fiendish method to remove the post without cutting the frame there would still be no guarantee that the frame integrity wasn't compromised as some powerful forces can be generated by the growth of galvanic corrosion. It was remiss of them not to tell you they were going to do this though, for which they have had the good grace to apologise.

I bought a new carbon-framed bike last August, and before I rode it I spent a few hours checking the torque on all the crucial bolts (some were low) and also the seatpost fitment (carbon assembly compound: present). I rode this for a few weeks until the start of the mud season, then put it into the garage until spring and switched over to Winter Bike. A few weeks ago I had to remove Winter Bike's dropper post, and though I knew damn well it was well lubed with CF ass'y paste it was as stiff as hell. Much wrenching later and the post finally came out, to reveal that all the CF paste had been replaced by dried mud. Luckily the post and frame were both aluminium alloy so there was very little corrosion (just a little pitting in places), but it's got me worried about carbon-framed Summer Bike sitting in the garage - just how much of the CF paste has been washed away since I inspected it? I'm not suggesting this is what happened to WP Local's Niner (Winter Bike sees stupid amounts of mud on just about every ride, and Summer bike sees its fair share too), but I was shocked at just how thoroughly CF paste gets washed away. Cleared2land made the excellent suggestion of using water-resistant grease for most of the seatpost, with CF paste just around the clamp area. That's a very fine idea, and I might go one further and use water-resistant grease on the whole post, with CF paste on top of that around the clamp area. It's the gritty bits in the paste that do the gripping so it shouldn't matter if there's a thin layer of water-resistant grease underneath.


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