# Tell me all about hammerschmidt and schlumpfdrive



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I has come to my attention that there are 2 speed cranksets to buy. Now I understand the working mechanism inside the cranks and all that. I want your impressions, if you like it i want to know why, if not I want to know why too.

Basically I'm trying to eliminate moving parts of my bike, or at least parts that prone to breaking, like derailleurs. Also the parts that I want on my bike should be as self contained as possible. If it comes in a protective shell I like it.

So the last weeks I have been riding my run off the mill aluminum bike as a commuter, its a 1x9 with sram x9. I think its kinda finicky to keep such a system running. Maybe I'm getting old but I don't enjoy fiddling around with it any more, I just want it to work. And it gets dirty as hell, and I just tore everything apart to clean it!!

This lead me in to the KISS principle. And what could be simpler than a IGH that only has 2 gears and sits in the cranks?

On some days i feel like superman so 2 gears might just cut it, I think, but on some days I'm really happy I have that 28cog in the back. 

Is 2 gears enough? What about the Schlumpf brand equivalent product? Is that one better? These parts are far from cheap and I wonder if its better to just buy and Alfine hub instead, or SRAM, I motion

I'm also considering a Rohloff and I know these are better and lasts a lifetime, but its quite a commitment financially, I can get a whole bike for that money. Or at least build up half a good bike roughly.

So I guess what I'm asking is: are the 2 speed cranks worth it as the only gearing on a bike, and when talking money are the other alternatives better, or more sane maybe?


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## cheezy (Mar 27, 2012)

I have the hammershmidt AM crankset on my transition transam.


It's possibly my favorite part of the bike. High clearance, shifts smoothly no matter the pressure (or no pressure). I have zero chain slap! Quality crankset that will take a beating. Easy installation. Have it combined with a x9 short cage.

Cons are that its heavy, overdrive is kinda loud, expensive and needs a proprietary bottom bracket that ain't cheap either. It also needs a proprietary shifter (needed to buy XO cause all X9 shifters were out of stock). When all is done its $800+. You can get all that for $700 with discounts and coupons though.

I have zero regrets. Works amazing and my bike is quiet as a mouse rolling through rock gardens. I absolutely love it! 

If money and weight is no issue.... Do it.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

cheezy said:


> If money and weight is no issue.... Do it.


Echoing this. I'm trading my heavily used Hammerschmidt for a rear shock - reluctantly, at that.

Only thing I didn't like about it was a flimsy cable arm clamp, I swapped out a bolt and a washer so the cable would stop slipping (this part of the design seemed like an afterthought and is a minor issue).

Great product. A little overpriced, but it works as advertised and handles abuse like a champ.


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## vaultbrad (Oct 17, 2007)

I've considered that a schlumph plus a 3 speed hub might be a nice situation. Then again, if I were to do that, why not just put all of the shifting in the hub. With so many options for multi-geared hubs, the geared crank seems unnecessary. Maybe try a 3speed wheel to determine if you can make due with so few gears before putting so much money into a geared crank.


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

There's also the FSA Metropolis 'Patterson' 2-speed crankset (the mfr. doesn't really recommend this for offroad).

All of these two-speed cranksets have very wide jumps (~1.6/1) between the offered ratios, so it's not just a question of 'can just two speeds work for me?', one must also consider if the two widely spaced ratios will serve as well.

_"...why not just put all the shifting in the hub?"_
In the decade of the 1890s, most gearing experiments involved shifting at the crank. In the decade of the 1900s, geared cranksets (with up to four ratios) competed with geared hubs in the marketplace. By WWI, hub gearing had swept geared cranks from the market for a variety of reasons. While some things have changed in the intervening years, the physics hasn't.

jd


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## Corporal Punishment (May 26, 2011)

john_dalhart said:


> By WWI, hub gearing had swept geared cranks from the market for a variety of reasons. While some things have changed in the intervening years, the physics hasn't.
> 
> jd


Would you please elaborate on that? Because it seems to me that geared cranks have a number of advantages over IGH. I like the idea of the heavy part of the bike being square in the center - at the bottom bracket instead of at the back. Even more weight than we're accustomed to IGH could be added to the bottom bracket in exchange for more gears or more robust design.

Here's a movement to push gearboxes into bike mfgr product lines:

g-boxx.org - research institute for gear box transmissions


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

john_dalhart said:


> There's also the FSA Metropolis 'Patterson' 2-speed crankset (the mfr. doesn't really recommend this for offroad).
> 
> All of these two-speed cranksets have very wide jumps (~1.6/1) between the offered ratios, so it's not just a question of 'can just two speeds work for me?', one must also consider if the two widely spaced ratios will serve as well.
> 
> ...


John i have seen your comments in amny of the threads here in igh, so I guess you know a lot about them.

I wonder what the practical difference is between the alfine 8/11 and the sram i-motion 9. It looks like the I-motion gets not love. Is it a bad hub compared to the alfine?

I would like something I crack open once a year and then it just runs. Do you know anything about the difference in durability if there is any.

I read a few reviews about the i-motion 3 and supposedly its much better than all other 3 speeds, I wonder if its the same with i-motion 9 too.

I ride a lot in rain so good seals are welcome.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

I've had an Alfine 8 since '09. I've got somewhere around 3000 km on it. I've raced it once, and generally shown it no mercy off road, treating it just like my derailleur bike. I'll drop 2 feet or so with no worries, and rode it last winter in brutal cold numerous times. It is bullet proof. I lubed it last season just to be on the safe side and found the internals perfect. Rinsing the gears in 90w gear oil flushed out a bit of metal, which is normal break in wear. I regreased it and rode it another 6 months. I just dropped the gearing to 30 x 20 from 32 x 19 last week. It works perfect.

My only caveat; I don't ride in the rain and I'm very careful with the hose when washing the bike. No idea how the hub will hold up in all weather.

Drew


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I wanted to love the Hammerschmidt. I'm an IGH guy so it's right up my alley...:thumbsup:

hammerschmidt « Search Results « The Lazy Rando Blog&#8230;

I liked:

- the fast shifts and shifting while coasting/\back pedalling. 
- ground clearance
- low maintenance

I didn't like:

- the significant drag in high range
- the cost
- the extra weight

I essentially wouldn't use the high range unless I was pointed downhill as the drag was simply too much. Since I use the same bike for all my riding the lack of an efficient high range option was not good so I sold the HS.

After switching back to a 2 x 9 derailleur on the front of the same bike I'm now riding around in the 38T ring a ton and getting better overall performance than I was with the HS.

If SRAM sorts out the drag in the high range the HS is a great idea. However, as implemented now I can only recommend it for folks who shuttle or use lifts to get the turns.


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## intheways (Apr 19, 2004)

I've been debating back and forth between a Schlumpf or Rohloff for a couple years now and still haven't pulled the trigger on either. I like the user-servicability of the Schlumpf, but have a hard time spending $700 on it (the Rohloff isn't really an option at this point). I'm just making due with a decreased high- and low- end running a 1x9 with a 12-36 cassette. It works pretty well, but has its problems.


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## zenxteninc (May 18, 2012)

Im working on a centralized derailleur-less system that will still be chain driven because they are so easy to fix on the trail compared to other options my hope is that it will be lighter over all because of the amount of hardware that will be removed. It will definitely feel more balanced because of where the weight sits, the intention is to offer exactly what we are use to with handlebar shifters, a range of gears (although there will be no tuning issues like today) and a retro fit so that you can have the frame you like and run this setup on or off the trail. the proof of concept is done just working on SLA's of actual parts to get a prototype together.. I hope to have more on this soon..


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## intheways (Apr 19, 2004)

zenxteninc said:


> Im working on a centralized derailleur-less system that will still be chain driven because they are so easy to fix on the trail compared to other options my hope is that it will be lighter over all because of the amount of hardware that will be removed. It will definitely feel more balanced because of where the weight sits, the intention is to offer exactly what we are use to with handlebar shifters, a range of gears (although there will be no tuning issues like today) and a retro fit so that you can have the frame you like and run this setup on or off the trail. the proof of concept is done just working on SLA's of actual parts to get a prototype together.. I hope to have more on this soon..


I'd be interested to hear more


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Tell me more zen. I'm a machinist but thats not really my worry anymore, I'm more like a thinker now and for the next couple of years but I still know people.

I f*cking hate derailleurs. I have experience machining precision gears and spines and whatever, in quite difficult materials, and measuring them. Anyway I want to hear more about this.


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