# When to Manual through a Jump/Drop and When to Actually Jump?



## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

Not sure which subforum to put this under but I am looking to learn how to do some small jumps and drops.

Maybe a silly question, but how do you know when to just manual off of a jump or drop and when to put some bounce into it and actually jump? Anyone have any tips or links to good videos on how to start?

I'm a pretty decent intermediate rider but I want to get more comfortable at riding drops and getting a bit of air on jumps for fun. I am really not looking to go crazy.

Thanks!


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

I'm no jump expert. But I manual when approaching a drop at a slow pace. Most of the time this happens when I don't know the terrain very well and the ledge creeps-up while I'm riding. Poor landing sites are also reasons to manual. Usually when I jump or launch, I know the terrain well and the landing zone is good.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Manual and drop when hitting a drop, jump when hitting a jump. 

They are two different things that require distinct approaches.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> Manual and drop when hitting a drop, jump when hitting a jump.
> 
> They are two different things that require distinct approaches.


I get that if the take off has a lip on it, you would want to actually jump. What if it is a flat take off to a landing below (drop), is there any time that you would want to actually hop off of it, or would you always lunge (manual) off of it? Something like this, but smaller...


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I only do a true manual (hold a manual) off of a drop for style. On the drop pictured I'd either lightly pop off it or just ride off in the attack position and push the front down a bit to match the landing. If it were a flat landing I'd do a little manual at the takeoff and drop the rear wheel.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

mLeier said:


> I get that if the take off has a lip on it, you would want to actually jump. What if it is a flat take off to a landing below (drop), is there any time that you would want to actually hop off of it, or would you always lunge (manual) off of it? Something like this, but smaller...


Then that's a drop and should be handled as such. Doesn't really matter if it's 1 foot or a few feet. The technique is the same if your goal is to ride the drop.

And you're not doing a full manual off something like is in your picture. Maybe the early steps of a "manual front wheel lift" or a "mini manual" or whatever you want to call it, but you still want to be able to land with both wheels on the ground at roughly the same time. The idea here is that you need to "float" your front wheel off the drop enough so that you can land pretty evenly on whatever the ground is doing beneath you, so you don't really want to "lift" the front wheel way up unless you're going super slow and at that point, you're starting to get into the realm of trials maneuvers. Going full manual is going to put your front wheel way up in the air and not in a good place to land this. And if you've got enough speed, you may not need to do much other than just ride off the drop. Full manuals can be fun on pump tracks and rolling sections of trail, but not really for this.

Jumping is something else entirely where you're preloading into the face of the jump and exploding out of it. There really isn't an opportunity for that here.

I really like the Ryan Leech Connection coaching vid series.

https://learn.ryanleech.com/

He has separate instructional series for each of these skills and he breaks things down really well into their individual components that you can practice and perfect before moving on.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

mLeier said:


> I get that if the take off has a lip on it, you would want to actually jump. What if it is a flat take off to a landing below (drop), is there any time that you would want to actually hop off of it, or would you always lunge (manual) off of it? Something like this, but smaller...
> 
> View attachment 1314725


Picture's worth 1,000 words. :thumbsup:

As Harold alluded to, it becomes more about speed and timing than any sort of big move. If you are moving quickly, you can do almost nothing and clear a drop like this. If you are going slow enough to hang your rear wheel on the end - that is, your front begins to drop before your rear wheel clears - it takes a lot more body English to land correctly.

Practice your timing off small stuff, and just start going bigger. Be aware of your landing area.

-F

PS - if it is a big drop that makes me nervous, even if it has a lip, I will probably suck up the lip and just ride it like a drop, effectively cancelling the lip. Again, depends on lots of things.


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

Isn't the lowest common denominator speed? If you're going fast, jump. If you're going slow(er) manual. If a rider manuals while hauling ass off a jump, the front end can jack-up.

Edit: But I'm writing through the lens of a trail rider. I'm not an enduro jumper.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I've been working on drops a lot lately (its easier for me mentally than jumps for some reason).

For drops like the one in the photo above, there really is minimal body movement if you're riding at "trail speed". And for those, I kind of do a "mini bounce", to preload the suspension and settle myself on the bike before the drop. I'm definitely not "jumping it"... but more like... doing a slight bounce that is mostly to make sure my body feels comfortable in its stance. Its hard to describe.

For slower drop attempts, you have to try to float the front wheel out there more. Given, I can't actually manual (and ride it), and I've never had to have that exagerated of a movement to stick a landing on a drop, but there are some where either the speeds are so low you have to actively float the front, or your takeoff is actually pointed down (both have the same effect).

This is one I've done a handful of times (still haven't gotten it perfect yet). But you can see how this one angles down for the last 10ft or so, which takes a bit more technique to clear correctly.

My first time down, I rode it like a flat one shown above, and landed quite nose heavy (front tire hit ~6-12" in before the rear). Rode it out, but wasn't ideal.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Pisgah said:


> Isn't the lowest common denominator speed? If you're going fast, jump. If you're going slow(er) manual. If a rider manuals while hauling ass off a jump, the front end can jack-up.
> 
> Edit: But I'm writing through the lens of a trail rider. I'm not an enduro jumper.


Yeah, the faster you go the less you have to do basically. At really slow/no speed you'd have to pedal kick. Like I said before it depends on the landing angle. It also depends on the takeoff angle. On a steep decline takeoff and landing you have to shove the bike forward a bit and keep the bike parallel to the landing.

Btw, holding a manual across that entire drop is definitely doable but also definitely an advanced skill.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Pisgah said:


> Isn't the lowest common denominator speed? If you're going fast, jump. If you're going slow(er) manual. If a rider manuals while hauling ass off a jump, the front end can jack-up.
> 
> Edit: But I'm writing through the lens of a trail rider. I'm not an enduro jumper.


I mean, sure, speed is a major factor. But jumps and drops are very different things. I don't see why I would ever want to manual a jump, speed or no. The lip on a jump will mess you the f*ck up if you try to manual it. The kinds of jumps OP _should_ be practicing on at this point should all be rollable if there's not enough speed to actually pop off the lip and get air, so a manual for jumps just shouldn't be part of the discussion.

For a drop, then sure, what you're saying makes sense, as long as we understand that the mini-manual "front wheel float" is a very different thing than an actual manual, and what you're actually talking about is a mini-manual to float the front wheel off of the drop.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

From my days riding street BMX as a kid, I developed these skills/habbits/traits...On drops if there is something I want to clear or get too I'll pop off the end of a drop and hop the bike. If its a nice straight drop to a long landing like the pictures above, then just floating the front end is all I do.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

I think there is a misunderstanding as to what a manual is.
A "manual" in this situation is lifting the front wheel, so it doesn't hit the jump/bump, or whatever. 
The point of this is to allow you to NOT jump. Jumping is not always faster (depending on your riding situation of course). By manual-ing, or lofting the front wheel, you can absorb the jump/bump/rise/whatever with a combination of your rear wheel and legs. This keeps the rear wheel on the ground much, much better. 

On a drop as pictured, you "could" manual off of it, but there is little to no point. The goal on a drop as pictured is to not allow the front end to drop too low, which could potentially cause an over the bars crash.
If your speed is high, you can literally just ride off. The front won't drop appreciably. The slower your speed the more energy you will need to use to push the bike forward/pull back on the bars to prevent the front end from dropping. At some speed point, you can't compensate, and your front will drop before the rear tire leaves the ramp, unless you wheelie off. (Which would of course bring about its own set of challenges and techniques!)


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DethWshBkr said:


> I think there is a misunderstanding as to what a manual is.
> A "manual" in this situation is lifting the front wheel, so it doesn't hit the jump/bump, or whatever.


This is a manual.










This is not what you do off a drop unless you're way advanced and you're planning to land in a manual and continue riding that manual. Major style points, but this isn't what anyone is talking about. You also wouldn't do this off of a jump.









If you've got something like this that you want to avoid getting air on, then some aggressive pumping of the bike to keep the wheels down is more what's called for, not getting the front wheel in the air before the lip (which will probably result in your back wheel being bucked).

You can manual over rollers like this:









And sometimes you can jump those same rollers.









The "mini manual" or "manual front wheel lift" among other things it might be called is NOT the same. It involves some of the same movements to initiate the above manual, but it's only the very beginning of the above. It's not a manual. Distinguishing between them is important to avoid the exact language confusion that your post (and probably some others) illustrates. What this motion achieves is floating the front wheel off the drop, like this:










Step 4 in this article describes in words the movements to achieve this.

It is also not the only way that one can lift the front wheel. It is ONE PARTICULAR way that involves the specific down and back hip movements described in the article.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

Harold said:


> I mean, sure, speed is a major factor. But jumps and drops are very different things. I don't see why I would ever want to manual a jump, speed or no. The lip on a jump will mess you the f*ck up if you try to manual it. The kinds of jumps OP _should_ be practicing on at this point should all be rollable if there's not enough speed to actually pop off the lip and get air, so a manual for jumps just shouldn't be part of the discussion.
> 
> For a drop, then sure, what you're saying makes sense, as long as we understand that the mini-manual "front wheel float" is a very different thing than an actual manual, and what you're actually talking about is a mini-manual to float the front wheel off of the drop.


Yes, I mean mini-manual. No one I ride with actually differentiates between a mini-manual off of a drop or an actual wheel-up, ride it out, manual. Sorry if I made it confusing with what I was asking.

And yes, everything I am riding is rollable and I don't really see myself going much bigger than that, I just want to feel more confident and have more fun on those those small features by carrying my speed through them and/or by getting a little bit of air.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"? 

Gah!!! Why am I so scared to do this even if the feature is rollable?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

mLeier said:


> Yes, I mean mini-manual. No one I ride with actually differentiates between a mini-manual off of a drop or an actual wheel-up, ride it out, manual. Sorry if I made it confusing with what I was asking.
> 
> And yes, everything I am riding is rollable and I don't really see myself going much bigger than that, I just want to feel more confident and have more fun on those those small features by carrying my speed through them and/or by getting a little bit of air.


On the trail with my friends, sure, I get loose with my language a lot of the time. But on the internet, it's really hard to convey accurate ideas without precise language. Important in a coaching scenario, too. And since I do have training in mtb skills coaching and I know the language used in those circles, I try to use it when being descriptive here.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Harold said:


> This is a manual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this should be "stickied" in the beginners forum.

growing up on BMX as well, I tend to just jump or bunny hop everything that speed and space allows for. It is just muscle memory/instinct.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

mLeier said:


> For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"?


With enough speed, sure. I did a ride yesterday that had several drops off of rocks or wads of roots and the trail mostly allowed me to hold lots of speed prior to the drop as well as afterwards. Good approaches and runouts. You don't always have that luxury and sometimes you approach it slower than you like (or you have to because there's something after the drop that demands attention). When you approach more slowly, you've gotta do more to keep the front from diving off of the drop. The mini-manual if you have some amount of speed. You can do many from a complete standstill if you utilize a 1/4 or 3/4 pedal punch wheelie, but those are the trials skills I mentioned before. Sometimes just a little bit of preloading of the bike gives you a little bit of pop off the drop to make it a little "bigger" and mas fun but that's not necessary in most cases.

Here's a nice example of the wrong way. Rider had some speed, but not enough to simply ride off of it. But that's exactly what the rider did with a low and too-centered body position. It wasn't helped by the fact that this one has a little bit of a dip in the rock before the dropoff. This rider probably needed to do a solid mini manual. More speed might have done it, but the rider also may have gapped the nice landing zone.






Once you're in the air, keeping the bike level is about having a centered body position. So, if you used the mini-manual to leave the drop, you need to re-center your body before you hit the ground. If you stay back, you'll land rear-first and if the drop is high enough, that can be trouble. You can make subtle adjustments to the landing angle with subtle body movements (say, the landing zone is a sloped downhill transition where you would want the front to drop some) while you're in the air.

This article has a few vids (fails and successes) and some nice descriptions.

https://mountainbikegeezer.com/learning-from-nasty-skinny-drop-crash/

With a mental block on these things, the key is to start super small and get the movements down, then work your way up in drop height as well as complexity of the trail around the drop as your confidence grows. For example, if you're only just working on small drops in super controlled scenarios and aren't quite comfortable with them yet, don't go out onto a trail and try to do a drop of the same height with too many extra challenges tacked on (say, turns right before or after the drop, repeated drops close together, technical approaches or landing zones, etc). If you're going to try a drop with increased challenge around it, make sure you do so on a smaller drop than what you're practicing in controlled scenarios.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

mLeier said:


> Thanks for all of the replies everyone.
> 
> For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"?
> 
> Gah!!! Why am I so scared to do this even if the feature is rollable?


If you leave the takeoff in the attack position the bike will be tucked up under you somewhat. That will allow you to adjust the pitch of the bike if needed.

On smaller drops you can use the XC technique of coming in arms bent and pushing the bike forward and down off the drop (as opposed to hucking off).


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## kevin_sbay (Sep 26, 2018)

mLeier said:


> For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"?


Reason is that with enough speed (doesn't have to be crazy fast, just not slow), the front wheel has only a split second to "fall" before the rear wheel starts falling, too.

The front wheel will be only able to fall a few inches, if you're in your normal attack/riding position, ie, weight on the bottom bracket.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

kevin_sbay said:


> Reason is that with enough speed (doesn't have to be crazy fast, just not slow), the front wheel has only a split second to "fall" before the rear wheel starts falling, too.
> 
> The front wheel will be only able to fall a few inches, if you're in your normal attack/riding position, ie, weight on the bottom bracket.


Exactly this.

Basically, going nose heavy on a drop happens because the front wheel leaves the lip/platform first, and gravity starts pulling it towards the ground first.

If you are going fast, and the landing is also sloped, then your front wheel doesn't have that long (in terms of time, its a split second) before the rear wheel leaves. So the front wheel moves a few inches down, which leaves your bike (ideally) perfectly aligned with landing.

This is also why on slow speed drops, or drops that angle downward, you have to "float" the front tire somehow, to keep the front wheel somewhat level with the rear wheel when it has more time to fall.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

OP, you don’t have to go out and ride trails to work on these skills. Just start by riding off curbs in your neighborhood. Go slow, and just roll off, then go faster and faster till you can feel the bike flying off and landing level. Then add in the mini manual, but now go from going fast and go slower and slower. Just to get your timing of holding the front end up long enough to clear the drop. Practice your body position and then go find a taller curbs. Work up to hucking off the curb and clearing the gutter. 

While those man made feature drops are cool. I much prefer natural ones. That’s where knowing when to huck over something or to something will start to come into play.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

mLeier said:


> For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"?


I'd be careful about that. On a smaller drop it doesn't matter so much but as the drops get bigger you'll have more time to nosedive and die. When catching air I always try to dictate what the bike does rather than simply let it take me for a ride.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Nat said:


> I'd be careful about that. On a smaller drop it doesn't matter so much but as the drops get bigger you'll have more time to nosedive and die. When catching air I always try to dictate what the bike does rather than simply let it take me for a ride.


It's not that you're doing nothing at all, it's that you don't do anything specific at the lip. You still need to approach in the 'attack' position and control the pitch of the bike in the air.

I really recommend watching the Rich Drew video I posted and his follow up video here. 




That technique works for most drop situations. Obviously on big bucks to flat you need to use a different technique (bmx/trials style).


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> It's not that you're doing nothing at all, it's that you don't do anything specific at the lip. You still need to approach in the 'attack' position and control the pitch of the bike in the air.


That's what everyone needed to convey to the OP.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Nat said:


> That's what everyone needed to convey to the OP.


But...



> On the drop pictured I'd either lightly pop off it or just ride off in the attack position and push the front down a bit to match the landing.





> If you leave the takeoff in the attack position the bike will be tucked up under you somewhat. That will allow you to adjust the pitch of the bike if needed.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> But...


And she asked the following, so what's your problem?



mLeier said:


> For those who have said that with enough speed you can literally just ride off the end... Can you really? You don't have to do anything at all? How do you keep the bike level and stop the front from diving? You don't have to preload at all? You don't have to "float the front wheel"?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Nat said:


> And she asked the following, so what's your problem?


And I answered. What's happening here.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> And I answered. What's happening here.


We're in agreement, you big dummy.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Nat said:


> I'd be careful about that. On a smaller drop it doesn't matter so much but as the drops get bigger you'll have more time to nosedive and die. When catching air I always try to dictate what the bike does rather than simply let it take me for a ride.


I have to argue with you, just a little.

Regardless of the height of the drop, it is the speed that mostly dictates how much your front end will drop before the rear wheel clears - assuming the rider input is minimal.

Whether the drop is 6 inches or 36 inches, if your speed is enough to clear your rear wheel before the front drops too much, all will be fine.

This is why people get psyched out on small features. It is in their head that they need to "do something". As the drops get bigger, I worry way more about the landing than the take-off.

To the OP, if you start small and experiment with different speeds you will be fine.
If you want to up your game a little, find a small comfortable drop, then ride it like it's a 6 foot drop: crouch very low at the take-off and extend your legs as soon as the bike clears the edge. You should eventually be able to set the bike down gently as if you just rode down a small hill, since your body will only drop a few inches while your bike does the full drop.

It works for stair manuals as well (<--don't mess that one up! It will hurt.)

-F


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Fleas said:


> Regardless of the height of the drop, it is the speed that mostly dictates how much your front end will drop before the rear wheel clears - assuming the rider input is minimal.
> 
> Whether the drop is 6 inches or 36 inches, if your speed is enough to clear your rear wheel before the front drops too much, all will be fine.


I think the advice to "just go faster and all will be okay" is going to get some people in trouble. When you hit bigger drops at speed you should be in the attack position with some muscle tension to control the bike. If you send it like dead weight then your bike can get out of control more easily. Up to a short drop then you'll probably be able to ride it out but when the drops get taller the chances of crumping at the landing go way up.

Below are the drop-offs at my park. The biggest one is a decent example where telling a beginning jumper to "just go faster" will likely end up in carnage. Go too fast and you'll overshoot the landing. Hypothetically, picture what would happen if you went off a drop like that at night, in the dark, where you didn't see it coming and didn't have the right muscle tension.

My point when I said to be careful with that advice is that it doesn't always work, especially as the drops get bigger. Take "go faster" with a grain of salt. You still should be in the attack position with some dynamic muscle tension.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jeremy3220 said:


> If you leave the takeoff in the attack position the bike will be tucked up under you somewhat. That will allow you to adjust the pitch of the bike if needed.
> 
> On smaller drops you can use the XC technique of coming in arms bent and pushing the bike forward and down off the drop (as opposed to hucking off).


The 'push forward' technique is a great way for a beginner to get the feel on smaller stuff IME. Get comfortable with that, then work up.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Harold said:


> I don't see why I would ever want to manual a jump, speed or no.


I would simply because I bet it feels cool as hell and I want to ride like Jeff Kendall-Weed. The dude is my freaking bike hero. I know I've seen him do it a million times in his videos but he has so many that it was hard to find examples. Here's one:






Here's another. Tell me that wouldn't feel cool as ****.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Look what floated to the top of the YT feed:

This is wayyy bigger than anything I'd ever do.






-F


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Nat said:


> I think the advice to "just go faster and all will be okay" is going to get some people in trouble. When you hit bigger drops at speed you should be in the attack position with some muscle tension to control the bike. If you send it like dead weight then your bike can get out of control more easily. Up to a short drop then you'll probably be able to ride it out but when the drops get taller the chances of crumping at the landing go way up.
> 
> Below are the drop-offs at my park. The biggest one is a decent example where telling a beginning jumper to "just go faster" will likely end up in carnage. Go too fast and you'll overshoot the landing. Hypothetically, picture what would happen if you went off a drop like that at night, in the dark, where you didn't see it coming and didn't have the right muscle tension.
> 
> ...


It's worth noting that the design of these appears to be such that it discourages excess speed the bigger they get. The ramp UP to the big one will slow you down. This sort of scenario certainly does have a "right speed" that's neither too slow nor too fast, so you hit the landing zone in the best spot. You also need to get the front end to drop a fair bit to hit that transition smoothly. I've ridden drops the size of the small one where the landing zone right at the bottom is flat (the width of a two-track dirt road), but sending it with speed allows the rider to hit a smoother transition farther away. The approach and the landing zone are important factors beyond the drop itself, and a rider needs experience to figure out how much speed is necessary to land where and how they want to, what techniques to use prior to the launch, and what adjustments to make in the air to land it smoothly.

And it's why big drops and complicated scenarios are definitely more advanced.

Starting out on small stuff with low consequences, though, where the rider wants to progress from the push forward technique to hitting the drop, speed is your friend. You can do the push forward (I've heard it referred to as peek-and-push) technique at a pretty slow speed that simply won't work to actually hit the drop, so it is worth emphasizing that more speed is needed. It's not that more speed is ALWAYS better, but rather that for where most beginner riders are in their abilities when they want to start working on this sort of thing, more speed is most likely necessary.

Talking about some dynamic muscle tension in order to control the bike is important, too. I didn't intend to make it sound like you could just relax and do nothing (the aforementioned dead sailor). I apologize if that's how I came across. When I hit a small to moderate drop at speed on the trail, I'm definitely making micro adjustments while I'm in the air so that I land where and how I want. I also don't ride very many bike park type drops like in the picture. The stuff I tend to ride is part of or alongside the trail that I'm riding, so the scenario is far less controlled than bike park drops.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Nat said:


> ...The biggest one is a decent example where telling a beginning jumper to "just go faster" will likely end up in carnage.
> 
> ...You still should be in the attack position with some dynamic muscle tension.
> 
> View attachment 1314959


THAT is not a beginner drop. I would tell them to not do it.

But, I agree 100% with your advice to be an active rider, not just ballast.

-F

PS - Is it possible to go fast enough on any of those to clear the tabletop?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Fleas said:


> Look what floated to the top of the YT feed:
> 
> This is wayyy bigger than anything I'd ever do.
> 
> -F


Too funny. BCPOV did that one recently too:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Nat said:


> I would simply because I bet it feels cool as hell and I want to ride like Jeff Kendall-Weed. The dude is my freaking bike hero. I know I've seen him do it a million times in his videos but he has so many that it was hard to find examples. Here's one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of what's there shows him manualling off drops, to be honest. And sure, it's cool as hell. But I have no delusions. There's no way I'm ever going to be half as good as Jeff Kendall-Weed. Throwing him up as an example in a discussion about beginners learning to hit drops doesn't really help that much.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Fleas said:


> Is it possible to go fast enough on any of those to clear the tabletop?


Yes. Scary!!!


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> The 'push forward' technique is a great way for a beginner to get the feel on smaller stuff IME. Get comfortable with that, then work up.


The good thing is it can be used on small drops to flat or any size drop with a sloped landing. Beginners should feel more in control using it verses trying to 'huck' off the drop.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Harold said:


> Most of what's there shows him manualling off drops, to be honest. And sure, it's cool as hell. But I have no delusions. There's no way I'm ever going to be half as good as Jeff Kendall-Weed. Throwing him up as an example in a discussion about beginners learning to hit drops doesn't really help that much.


It's something to aspire to. He's manualled jumps too but y'all will have to pick through his many videos to find examples. I know I've seen him do it.

I think it's of benefit to watch people who are WAY better than you, even if you'd never get to their level in a million years. A kid who's playing youth basketball would benefit from watching college and pro games, for example.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Fleas said:


> Look what floated to the top of the YT feed:
> 
> This is wayyy bigger than anything I'd ever do.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is the video I linked to. His first video on drops is more applicable to beginners.

He's squashing those big drops more than most would. I don't think the technique needs to be as exaggerated as he's doing it but a good video nonetheless. The only time this won't work well is for big hucks to flat.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Nat said:


> Yes. Scary!!!


:eekster:

-F


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> I don't think the technique needs to be as exaggerated as he's doing it but a good video nonetheless.


For instructional purposes, you do need to exaggerate your movements.

Also keep in mind that beginners are often WAY more stiff on their bikes than they should be (and honestly, lots of intermediates, too), and they NEED to practice exaggerated movements so that they can get comfortable with the full range of motion possible. As they get more skilled and more comfortable using what's possible, then it's fine to adjust how much of it they actually use depending on the scenario.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Harold said:


> For instructional purposes, you do need to exaggerate your movements.
> 
> Also keep in mind that beginners are often WAY more stiff on their bikes than they should be (and honestly, lots of intermediates, too), and they NEED to practice exaggerated movements so that they can get comfortable with the full range of motion possible. As they get more skilled and more comfortable using what's possible, then it's fine to adjust how much of it they actually use depending on the scenario.


Totally agree. I think intentionally over exaggerating the movement is one of the best things to practice when learning a technique. It's hard to know how far you should/can go with a technique unless you go too far. Manualing is a good example. You'll never learn to manual if you don't find the balance point.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Three ways to ride a drop:

1) Small manual. Usually kick out with your feet to put pressure on the front of your bars. You dont need much, just enough to get the tire off the ground. Faster = less manual; slower = more manual. Timed too early, your front end will drop too quickly and OTB. Timed too late, you are just riding off it at this point...
2) Bunny Hop. You get close to the end of the drop, and you hop to the landing. Turns the drop into a jump, but viable for longer drops/jumps. (ie- road gaps)
3) Racer squash. This is the technique in the video. Advanced move that requires lots of speed where you essentially get low on the bike and then push it down to the landing as you are in the air. 

You will get a feel to do what when.

On a steep rolldown with a drop at the bottom? Do a small manual. 
On a drop where there is a gap to the landing? Bunny hop.
Hauling ass down the trail and you don't want too much air? Racer squash.

Things NOT to do:
1) "Get your weight back!" Guaranteed OTB in most any situation.
2) "Brake!" If you are committing, you should send it. If want to stop, then stop. T
3) "Spot your landing." Most people get so fixated on the landing that they never look up. You should spot it, then lift your head to spot the next obstacle once you know you are going to touch down. 

I make everyone do the easiest drops 5x perfect before they move to the next biggest one.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

We mustn't forget to mention the scrub. It's too advanced to be within the scope of someone learning but maybe someday?


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## Mckinley (Apr 22, 2017)

If your looking to just start doing drops, I would keep it simple. Don't worry about all the different terms.
If you can, find a short course put on by an instructor on how to do drops. I watched all the videos, read up on the techniques, chucked the bike off things but it really wasn't working. I did a 3 hour course with a mtb instructor in a group setting and within that 3 hours we went from clueless to doing 3-4 foot drops. The instruction was very simple! Think "drops for dummies". Twas a "light bulb moment". The instruction was to get you started, so you could practice technique and getting use to speed and being in the air. If you can find a course or instructor, that would be your best bet.

But if you can't find a course, what we learned was simple. You will need to find a small, no consequence drop to start (even a curb). Speed is your friend, build up decent speed, once you have built up speed, assume your ready position (seat down, feet level, elbows out, chin in line with your bars, knees bent, centered over the bike) you will want this position several feet out from the drop (why you have your speed up cause you will stop pedaling). As your front tire is ready to leave the drop, send or "flick" the bike forward. To do this you will push down on the pedals, push the bars straight out and quickly push your hips straight back. Done quickly it is like flicking the bike straight out in front of you. You can practice this technique on the flat. Ride down the road, get your speed up, assume ready position, then thrust the bike forward. Practice that, then hit a small drop and practice that till it becomes comfortable. You will naturally unfold as you land. This is what we learned to get started with drops.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> We mustn't forget to mention the scrub. It's too advanced to be within the scope of someone learning but maybe someday?


I love that move. Can't do it, but love it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> I love that move. Can't do it, but love it.


I do tiny little baby scrubs so they don't actually accomplish anything. I think if I were to fully commit to the move I'd just end up sliding on my side, LOL.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> I love that move. Can't do it, but love it.


yeah, same here.


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## mLeier (Oct 17, 2017)

Lots of great explanations and videos! Thanks everyone! Just waiting for dirt here now so that I can practice. I also signed up for a jumps and drops course on May 31. Fingers crossed that everyone is healthy and this Coronavirus thing is over by then!


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