# Forge Sawback 5xx Still a Good Deal?



## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

So Ive been interested in picking one of these up for about 2 years now and just never got around to it. Now that Ive decided its time for an inexpensive new ride I realized that these are not the $320, $360, or even $400 bike deals they once were well known for... After you figure in Shipping +Tax Im paying over $430 for a UPS bike... Somehow that does not sound nearly as appealing as it once did a year or two ago for $330 shipped. The other thing is that Target does not seem to be offering ANY discounts or valid Promo Codes :skep: so thats out of the question I guess...

Does this still sound like a good deal still at almost $440 shipped? Im starting to think I may be better off spending $460 at my LBS... Opinions?


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

No thoughts on Sawbacks Anyone?

http://forgebikes.com/saw5blu.asp

Maybe I should rephrase... For $435 Shipped can I get a better entry level bike, in anyones opionion?


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

You can get a Diamondback Response for like 290.


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

I got one over Christmas, no problems with it so far. 
I think it is more of a timing thing with the forge, before Christmas they where $349, found a discount and free shipping. I ended up spending about $360 shipped. 

I got the charcoal 19", have changed the grips and pedals and have just been riding it all
I can. I've hit a couple tiny jumps, been over the bars, smacked trees and it's no worse for wear. I'm 220# so the dart1 fork is hating life lol. 
It's next on the upgrade list once something used/nice/cheap pops up.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Bike prices have risen across the board the last couple of years. In a nutshell, it's hard to beat the frame and components for the price for a new bike unless you run across some liquidation bikes.

Some company was liquidating some really nice rocky mountain bikes for 500, but they only had the 18" frame. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=677456


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## Jplaz (Oct 16, 2010)

IMO it's still the best new bike you can get without getting very lucky somewhere (LBS happened to be throwing out some brand new Spec. Hardrocks). 

I paid $400 last December.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

Eville140 said:


> I think it is more of a timing thing with the forge, before Christmas they where $349, found a discount and free shipping. I ended up spending about $360 shipped.


I totally agree.

I also think it is still a great deal compared to the price that all other bikes have also risen too.

The key is to watch the price. Save a short cut to the bike on Target.com and check it regularly.
I saw it on sale for a few days about a month before Christmas..it was $330.

I would say keep watching. When they have a special price, order one using a 10% discount coupon from "Entertainment Book" or some of the other sources.

Do you know for sure you will be charged sales tax? I wasn't when I bought mine (live in Oregon). I think you only pay tax if you live in one of the states where their warehouses are located. Mine shipped from CA


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## Paladin54 (Nov 18, 2010)

January is probably not the best month to look for a deal, since all of the Christmas deals are done. Hopefully closer to Spring they will starting dealing.

I hope to get one this spring. I don't think you can find a better spec'd bike for the price.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Paladin54 said:


> January is probably not the best month to look for a deal, since all of the Christmas deals are done. Hopefully closer to Spring they will starting dealing.
> 
> I hope to get one this spring. I don't think you can find a better spec'd bike for the price.


Yeah I think your right. January can be a great time for sales on items left over from Christmas but probably not something like a Bike...


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

Still loving mine, since have added some sticky pedals, odi grips, and a new to me rockshox Reba. Fun, fun bike. Can't wait to get some sticky/lighter tires.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

The fact is it's a Target bike frame. Regardless of what parts come on it, its still a target frame. I literally see peoples target bikes broken in half on the trails we ride. If your riding pavement and maybe like dirt roads it should be fine.


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

pfox90 said:


> The fact is it's a Target bike frame. Regardless of what parts come on it, its still a target frame. I literally see peoples target bikes broken in half on the trails we ride. If your riding pavement and maybe like dirt roads it should be fine.


How do they get away with have Aluxx aluminum on the side without giant suing them?
It's holding to my weight, and if it craps out so be it. Probably end up getting a Nash $99 frame to replace it or an eBay carbon.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

pfox90 said:


> The fact is it's a Target bike frame. Regardless of what parts come on it, its still a target frame. I literally see peoples target bikes broken in half on the trails we ride. If your riding pavement and maybe like dirt roads it should be fine.


Actually, the fact is that Target doesn't build bike frames (or manufacture bikes).
Not even the cheapy ones they sell in the stores.
They just choose to sell inexpensive bikes in their stores, so that is what the manufacturers build for them, and why the general advice is to not buy a bike in a department store (including some of the sporting goods chain stores)
That doesn't mean Target can't also sell a good bike. It just so happens they only sell it on line through Target.com.

You have obviously have never seen a Forge Sawback 5XX.
I have put about 1000 trail miles on mine riding many places that people prefer to only go on a FS, and it is so far holding up great.
Would I go and do a bunch of free ride jumping on it? No.
But that is the case with most lighter duty XC bikes, regardless of whos name is on it.

Many rules / guidelines have an exception (don't buy a bike from a department store). In my opinion the 5XX is an exception.
BTW, they also sell a FS version called the Sawback 7XX. In my opinion it is not a good bike. If someone really thinks they must have a FS bike, don't waste your money on a 7XX (an even marginally decent FS will cost far more).


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

pfox90 said:


> The fact is it's a Target bike frame. Regardless of what parts come on it, its still a target frame. I literally see peoples target bikes broken in half on the trails we ride. If your riding pavement and maybe like dirt roads it should be fine.


Its already been said, but this isnt a "Target frame" because it isnt a Target bike.

If Target started selling Specialized or Cannondale, that wouldnt make them "Target frames" would it?


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> Its already been said, but this isnt a "Target frame" because it isnt a Target bike.
> 
> If Target started selling Specialized or Cannondale, that wouldnt make them "Target frames" would it?


When Target sells Specialized, Trek, or Cannondale call me and I'll buy you a new one when your Sawback is showing signs of a catastrophic break.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

pfox90 said:


> When Target sells Specialized, Trek, or Cannondale call me and I'll buy you a new one when your Sawback is showing signs of a catastrophic break.


What makes a Specialized, Trek, or Cannondale, a good bike?
Service history!
Each one of them was an unknown name in mountain bikes when they started out, but they have developed a history of building durable bikes and frames. If it became evident that wasn't the case, then mountain bike consumers would have spread the word and they would be out of business.
Forge doesn't yet have as much of a history, but that in it self doesn't make it a bad bike (any more than the fact that it is marketed on line through Target.com).

The fact that we do know, is that with the thousands of Forge Sawbacks that have likely been sold since it was introduced, I have never seen a single post on line about someone breaking a frame. So, compared to a lot of other manufacturers, Forge is definitely new in the business, but it looks to me that they are slow and sure, building a service history of their own.


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## Jplaz (Oct 16, 2010)

pfox90 said:


> When Target sells Specialized, Trek, or Cannondale call me and I'll buy you a new one when your Sawback is showing signs of a catastrophic break.


Right...might as well add Giant to the list there, because the 5xx frames are rebranded from them...and I wouldn't call Giant some no name brand....

(it was very difficult not for me not to call you a moron in this post)


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Jplaz said:


> Right...might as well add Giant to the list there, because the 5xx frames are rebranded from them...and I wouldn't call Giant some no name brand....
> 
> (it was very difficult not for me not to call you a moron in this post)


Right! Just got it. That explains the Aluxx Aluminum :thumbsup:


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

I have 2 Forge Bikes, the Sawback 5xx and the M Street. My 5xx has over +5K miles and is still going strong. If you search sawback 5xx silver you will find lots written on mtbr - mainly from Forge riders, whom you want to get advice from. 

Once again Forge frames are real quality and the components are well known, any questions?

Forge is only sold on targe.com and amazon, so you get an awesome priced real bike, with the backing of target.com and amazon returns policy, and in some locations they are sold by small bike shops. You can get 10% off target.com if you are a AAA member or some credit card companies give 10% discounts as well, and of course there are the coupon codes. Or if you open a Target credit card you get 10% off.

As for service Forge is excellent, see the reviews. They have a telephone number and they know bikes.

So back to the bike, yes these are a great buy. Take the list of Forge specs and look around. Avid BB-5 brakes, DEORE shifter and drivetrain, WTB rims, etc,,,, Yes this is still an awesome buy.

As for the M Street I bought this as a simple commute bike, once again Forge impressed me.

Hope this was helpfull.


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## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

Lookin' at one of these..or something from Bikesdirect


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## bevanse (Aug 22, 2010)

I hope so, just ordered mine last Friday, can't wait to get it, and even better ride!


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## jrockmetalhead (Feb 4, 2011)

Just got mine in, and got an edgemont for my wife. Just went on easy 4 mile concrete path ride, and they seem like really good quality bikes. I will see how they do on the trails though.


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## Sandiman (Aug 22, 2007)

*Dear Forge Marketing Boss*

The Sawback's frame tops out at 19.5 inches. They do not offer it in a 21" frame size.

Question to Forge boss: Because of that you're losing sales to other manufacturers who accomodate taller people by offering a 21" frame. Because of that the Sawback bike _is not an option_ for the taller person. You've been making this mistake, the same mistake, year after year after year. What is the person at the top of your marketing department thinking?


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

I have at least 6k on my forge sawback 5xx - still going strong. Great bikes.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Just checked out to see if the price came back down some after the Holidays... NOPE! They are still going up :-(

Anyone know where I can now get one of these without paying almost $500 shipped...???


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## Hardtail4me (Sep 2, 2010)

For that price you can get a disc brake 2011 Giant Revel 1. Or if you want to save some coin you could get the excellent Revel 2 for in the low $300 range.


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Hardtail4me said:


> For that price you can get a disc brake 2011 Giant Revel 1. Or if you want to save some coin you could get the excellent Revel 2 for in the low $300 range.


The Forge has 27 speed Deore & Avid BB5 disc brakes while the Giant has 24 speed SRAM X-4 & Tektro brakes.

Why in the world would you want the Giant over the Forge?

Is the name Giant worth spending more for less bike?

You can get the Forge for $429 W/free shipping @ Target.


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

Forge is a better deal over the giant, you could by the forge and and a used giant revel frame on eBay and still be ahead. But if your talking about $500 start hitting craigslist and be patient. For that much you can find a hardtail that is probably a good 6-7# lighter used.

My forge ended up became parts donor for 15" leader frame for my wife. 
My forge frame is laying in the barn, so if anybody wants/needs a 19" forge frame I have one for cheap.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

Damn, Eville, that Forge didn't last you very long. You really came down with an acute case of upgrade-itis this winter/spring!


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

hdparrish said:


> Damn, Eville, that Forge didn't last you very long. You really came down with an acute case of upgrade-itis this winter/spring!


Lol, yea. The 19" frame felt to big, I had already ordered the wife a 15" Leader frame so went ahead and got me a 17"
Over the next couple months I scrounged the net for deals and slow replaced everything on my bike transferring it to hers. I think I got about $725 in my build, and I love the bike. One nice thing about starting out with a entry level is you get to find out what you like and what you don't. 
Her leader 15" leader frame is a bit lighter than the 19" forge frame and it saved a few grams on the seatpost and clamp. Everything else is swapped over and it hits the scales at 30.2# Not to bad. My 17" framed leader is 23.7# using nothing exotic, but upgrade-itis is a bad mofo. I'm fighting the urge right now to get different rotors and ti hardware and some Ti skewers. Once I hit 1500miles I'm swapping the frame out for an ebay carbon 









But for anybody looking for a good upgrade for their forge, When I swapped out the wheelset for the $89 mavics from competitive and the light tires the bike completely changed. And these mavics only saved a couple 100 grams. I wish I wasn't 210# or I'd spend some cash and get some 1500ish gram wheels.

Better toss the wifes bike in


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

Twenty-three-point-seven pounds and you're still trying to cut weight? Eville, you have gone from beginner to full-blown weight weenie in record time. 

Take it from a guy who weighs nearly (~203 pounds) as much as you--no matter how many ounces we trim off our bikes, we'd get the best results if we dropped several pounds off our bodies.

Nice-lookin' builds, by the way. Wifey's seat seems a bit low, though; is the 15-inch frame largish for her?


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## Eville140 (Nov 26, 2010)

Yea, I'm down 15#'s, shooting for another 15 or so. If I can get down into the 190's and hold onto as much muscle as possible I'll be super happy. I'm 5'11" and not really chubby, I've been lifting weights pretty hard the last few years bulking and cutting. But having a good squat, dead, and bench number doesn't help much 5-6 miles in the woods. lol Actually pretty worthless strength.
And yes her seat is way to low, but I thought I was a noob...she's like a uber noob. Once she gets a few more miles in I'll start raising the seat up slowly without her knowing. lol 
But right now she just can't seem to get the whole not touching the ground while seated thing. I explained it to her, even made here climb a couple floors of stairs squatted down, kinda like pedaling with the seat to low to show her how damn hard it is. But as long as she gets out and pedals occasionally I'm happy.
Next CL find is a 13" fisher frame and 80mm air fork for my 9 year old for $40, hope to go pick it up in the next day or two. 
I use to shake my head at the weight weenie section, but now I understand it's something that is not controllable. Good thing I never started smoking or drinking if I get addicted to bad things so easy. I've said if I can just get under 28#, then 27#, then 26# and so on.
My current tires are 2.1 racing ralphs evo UST's (which rock BTW) that I got used on ebay. Have a new set of 2.25 sitting here that are not UST and should drop another 350g  and have new tread. Now if it would just quite frigg'n raining!!!


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm in the same boat. I'd like to get down to 190 pounds this season, but it's tough because I don't have a lot of discipline when it comes to food--I like to eat, I like to cook, and I like to snack.

So it goes ...

I agree that wanting a lighter bike is inevitable, but at 23.7 pounds, you're already there. You could probably drop another pound with lighter wheels and tires, and since that would be extreme rotational weight, you'd actually feel the difference. But shelling out mucho dinero for titanium bolts and rotors? I think you'd see a very poor return on that investment.

I know how you feel regarding the weather. It's been a wet, cold, cloudy spring here in southeast Idaho, as well. I was pondering this the other day and I think we've had three days over 60 degrees so far this year ... and May is just around the corner!


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## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

hdparrish said:


> I know how you feel regarding the weather. It's been a wet, cold, cloudy spring here in southeast Idaho, as well. I was pondering this the other day and I think we've had three days over 60 degrees so far this year ... and May is just around the corner!


Soory..don't wanna derail this thread.. but I feel your pain! The weather here in SE WI has royally sucked this month! We had a 2 day stretch of temps in the high 50s-60s..got a power company trail ride in today.. Had to hike a bike on several sections that were under water.. Forecast for the next three days = RAIN!:madman:

Nice build on the leaders!!


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

How is it free shipping? I thought it was $430 plus $50 to ship? Ill take another look maybe Im mistaken...

Also, anyone who is riding a Forge can you help me with their frame sizing??

I was thinking about the 19" but maybe the 17" would be better...


Im 5'10" @ 172 lbs... Any recommendations?


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> How is it free shipping? I thought it was $430 plus $50 to ship? Ill take another look maybe Im mistaken...
> 
> Also, anyone who is riding a Forge can you help me with their frame sizing??
> 
> ...


Sorry I must have mis-read. about the shipping.

You are right @ the "dividing line" like me.

Your inseam will be more important than your total hieght.

I'm 5'10 & wear a 32" inseam. (short torso, long legs) I can ride a 19" frame in MOST bikes.

Someone else that is 5'10" W/a 30" inseam (long torso, short legs) would probably need a 17" frame.

It also depends on the particular bike.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Hum...

I also wear a 32" inseam and Forge says the 19" frame height is 31.7" ... That seems just a bit close to me.... 

Can anyone riding a 19"Forge attest to the frame height?


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> Hum...
> 
> I also wear a 32" inseam and Forge says the 19" frame height is 31.7" ... That seems just a bit close to me....
> 
> Can anyone riding a 19"Forge attest to the frame height?


Like I said, you're right on the dividing line.

Don't forget though, that's your inseam length. theres a bit more below the hem on your pant's leg to the ground.

Still awful close though.

Why don't you ask this guy. (Post # 30)



Eville140 said:


> Lol, yea. The 19" frame felt to big, I had already ordered the wife a 15" Leader frame so went ahead and got me a 17"


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## Marcster (Apr 28, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> Hum...
> 
> I also wear a 32" inseam and Forge says the 19" frame height is 31.7" ... That seems just a bit close to me....
> 
> Can anyone riding a 19"Forge attest to the frame height?


Your inseam length is from the crotch of your pants down to your ankles. *In your standover height measurement, you are forgetting the length from your ankle to the bottom of the soles of your shoes. *

I'd be very surprised if you weren't a prime candidate for a 19" (if not a 20"!!) frame on a mountain bike.

I'm 6' tall, 31" inseam and I've been measured for a 19-20" frame on mountain bikes. My Fuji hybrid is a 21".


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

XCSKIBUM said:


> Like I said, you're right on the dividing line.
> 
> Why don't you ask this guy. (Post # 30)


Thats who I was hoping would chime in :thumbsup:


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## XCSKIBUM (Mar 15, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> Thats who I was hoping would chime in :thumbsup:


Shoot him a PM.


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## Phreedom (Jun 3, 2011)

I have a feeling that Forge is out of business. They did have a working website but now it says "Coming Soon" and their Twitter page has not been updated since January.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Phreedom said:


> I have a feeling that Forge is out of business. They did have a working website but now it says "Coming Soon" and their Twitter page has not been updated since January.


Looks like they're updating their website. Their phone works as usual. Give 'em a call.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...clnk&gl=us&client=opera&source=www.google.com

*Can anyone riding a 19"Forge attest to the frame height?*

I'm 5' 9.5" with a 31" pant inseam, and the standover on the 19" is fine. 
The 19" has a 23.3" ETT.


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## Phreedom (Jun 3, 2011)

rlouder said:


> Looks like they're updating their website. Their phone works as usual. Give 'em a call.
> 
> .


I called...it was an answering service so I left a message. Will see if they call back. Thanks.


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## MoabiSlim (Apr 22, 2011)

*Still A Good Deal*

Ordinarily I'd say go to your nearest LBS that sells Jamis and get a Trail X2 or Trail X3. However, those two from Jamis only have Alivio and Acera derailleurs while the Forge Sawback 5 XX has Deore derailleurs. All three have disc brakes.

Because of the Deore derailleurs and the Rockshox fork, I'd say the Sawback wins hands down over Jamis!

It's still a good deal at $500! :thumbsup:

PS.

- AND none of them have suntour forks!


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

Just a thought, why don't you find a similarly-priced bike at a local bike shop, and buy from them? You're going to get support from them for upkeep/maintenance on your bike, and you're going to be supporting a local business.

Either that, or go used with craigslist.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I would go with Craigslist. If you're patient you can find some awesome deals.


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## Phreedom (Jun 3, 2011)

Colo Springs E said:


> Just a thought, why don't you find a similarly-priced bike at a local bike shop, and buy from them? You're going to get support from them for upkeep/maintenance on your bike, and you're going to be supporting a local business.
> 
> Either that, or go used with craigslist.


I live in the Portland area (a city known for it's biking community) so we have many, many LBS'. In the last 2 weeks I've been to 6 of them. I'm actually torn between buying from a local shop where I can get great service or saving money on a fantastic deal from a place like BD. It seems like you get so much more bang for your buck at BD. For instance last years model of the Motobecane Fantom 29PRO on sale @ $695.

*Fork:* RockShox TORA W/ REMOTE LOCKOUT, Up to 100mm travel*, Adjustable Rebound, SoloAir

*Crankset:* TruVativ FireX 22/32/44T with integrated GXP BB

*Bottketom Brac:* TruVativ GXP external bearing

*Pedals:* Mountain Platform

*Front Derailleur:* Shimano Deore, 31.8mm clamp

*Rear Derailleur:* Shimano XT long cage

*Shifters:* Shimano LX Mega-9 Rapid Fire 27 speed trigger shift

*Cassette/Freewheel:* Shimano HG cassette 9 speed 11-32T

*Hubs:* Gravity by Formula Sealed Bearing Disc with Quick Release

*Rims:* WTB FX28 Disc Black anodized Aluminum

*Tires:* WTB MotoRaptor or Nano 29er (No Choice, you cannot select)

*Brakes:* Avid Juicy or Elixir (cannot choose) *Hydraulic Disc* front and rear, 185mm rotor

*Brake Levers:* Avid Juicy or Elixir for Disc Brake (Most are Elixir, but one cannot choose)

*Headset:* FSA or CaneCreek (NoChoice) Sealed Bearing threadless 1 1/8 in

A bike at my LBS with those specs is running at least $200-$300 more I believe. I've been looking at Craigslist a lot. I will probably just be patient and wait for something nice to show up there I guess.


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## MoabiSlim (Apr 22, 2011)

Phreedom said:


> I live in the Portland area (a city known for it's biking community) so we have many, many LBS'. In the last 2 weeks I've been to 6 of them. I'm actually torn between buying from a local shop where I can get great service or saving money on a fantastic deal from a place like BD. It seems like you get so much more bang for your buck at BD. For instance last years model of the Motobecane Fantom 29PRO on sale @ $695.
> 
> *Fork:* RockShox TORA W/ REMOTE LOCKOUT, Up to 100mm travel*, Adjustable Rebound, SoloAir
> 
> ...


 Craigslist can be great most times, but sometimes it's a rip. Remember, there's no kind of warranty or guarantee with Craigslist. However, there is a warranty with your LBS and Target.com, as well. With your LBS, you'll most probably receive good customer service, as they'll be looking forward to your future bicycle needs.

I say :thumbsup: for the Sawback!


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## Phreedom (Jun 3, 2011)

removed by author


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## bigern1121 (Jul 1, 2011)

Just began researching this bike last night and was sold from all the good reviews. Almost bought it right away but it was getting late so I figured I do it today. The price jumped from $429.99 to $559.99 overnight!!!!!!:madman: For now its a deal breaker...bad timing!


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## Crash Test Dumby (May 3, 2011)

Wow, that is a jump! At $429 its a barrgain, at $559 not so much. If you like the Forge though, I would suggest checking out the Dawes Haymaker 1500 at Bikesdirect.com. It is al least as well equipped and still $419 including shipping if you are in the continental US.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

bigern1121 said:


> Just began researching this bike last night and was sold from all the good reviews. Almost bought it right away but it was getting late so I figured I do it today. The price jumped from $429.99 to $559.99 overnight!!!!!!:madman: For now its a deal breaker...bad timing!


Dang! your right! Screw that... Dude get a Moto from BD.com you'll be glad you did. Any of there bikes are going to be better spec'ed and better value anyway.

Thats what I did, Have a Moto Fantom pro 29 and added about $400 in upgrades. I now Have a bike you couldnt touch for less than $2000k that is lighter and faster than most bikes twice its price


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## bigern1121 (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't want to derail the thread too much but what do you guys think about the Moto 700DS? I've read to avoid lower end FS bikes, but looks pretty good.


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## Crash Test Dumby (May 3, 2011)

For info from people who actually ride bikes from bikesdirect go to the Motobecane forum. There are several threads there on the 700DS. Follow the link below:

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay...c213779b24ff73eba9ac32e47f&daysprune=30&f=133


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## austanian (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow. No longer one of the best bikes under 500 dollars. I picked mine up at 450 delivered last month. Not even worth looking into now.

The Haymaker is now easily number 1 now for the sub 500 category.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/hay1500xi.htm


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## getagrip (Mar 26, 2008)

Forge is a good company, but I hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot for raising the price - its close to $600 with shipping. You can get a Giant Revel 0 for that price, which has comparable specs, except with the service of a bike store. Additionally, when bikes stores are doing their Winter clearance sales starting in January, you can easily get a bike with the same specs for the same price or less - I saw a Trek 4500 last Winter marked down to around $500, as well as a Jamis Dakar full suspension fr that same price. Even if the price was $560, I'd do that over a similarely specd mail order bike.


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## Crash Test Dumby (May 3, 2011)

Yeah, for now the Haymaker is a much better deal. But the price of the Forge seems to fluctuate a lot. It could drop back to under $400 in a few weeks. If you go back thru this thread its happened before, $100 increase overnight but eventually it goes back down. To me that's one good thing about BD, the prices don't change, no "sales", just good prices on nicely equipped bikes (ignoring the bogus MSRP game that is).


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## Crash Test Dumby (May 3, 2011)

getagrip said:


> Forge is a good company, but I hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot for raising the price - its close to $600 with shipping. You can get a Giant Revel 0 for that price, which has comparable specs, except with the service of a bike store. Additionally, when bikes stores are doing their Winter clearance sales starting in January, you can easily get a bike with the same specs for the same price or less - I saw a Trek 4500 last Winter marked down to around $500, as well as a Jamis Dakar full suspension fr that same price. Even if the price was $560, I'd do that over a similarely specd mail order bike.


Completely agree. To me Forge and BD fall in the same category. If they are under cutting an equally equipped LBS bike by $100 or more then they win out. If the gap is less than $100 then I will pay the premium for the service, fitment and such I could get at the LBS. No brainer to me.


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## austanian (Jun 15, 2011)

Crash Test Dumby said:


> Yeah, for now the Haymaker is a much better deal. But the price of the Forge seems to fluctuate a lot. It could drop back to under $400 in a few weeks. If you go back thru this thread its happened before, $100 increase overnight but eventually it goes back down. To me that's one good thing about BD, the prices don't change, no "sales", just good prices on nicely equipped bikes (ignoring the bogus MSRP game that is).


Yes, but forge made a terrible move right here. (Or target). The Sawbacks whole drive is that it is one of the best bikes under 500. When a noob comes in wanting decent bike but has to spend under 500, that is what the sawback was made for. Because lets be honest, the LBS bikes that exist under 500 (excepting end of the year sales) are absolute garbage.


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## rvbuilder2002 (Mar 1, 2009)

*Bad marketing decision.*

I think the people at Forge or Targe.com made a huge marketing decision mistake.
Maybe they had to, to keep the company profitable. If so, I think it might mean the end of Forge ( I hope not).
We have 3 Sawbacks in our family, and I have always been a big promoter of them to beginners just starting out.
Now my recommendation is the Dawes Haymaker 1500 from Bikes Direct. Components wise it is about even.
The Dawes has a better fork (Dart 2 instead of Dart1), and a better front Derailleur (Deore instead of Alivio)
The Sawback has what most people consider slightly more desirable brakes, and Deore shifters instead of Alivio.
Other than that they are pretty much comparable.

My son just got a Haymaker 1500 and we are very happy with it compared to the Sawbacks we have. The Haymaker and Sawback weigh within a few tenths of a pound of each other (just over 31 lbs for the small frame size without all of the reflector junk on them).

My opinion is that Forge/Target.com just priced themselves out of the beginner mountain biker market and sale #'s will plummet (No one should spend that kind of money on a bike that they will have to assemble and fine tune them selves, when they can get similar with full service of a LBS for about the same money).

Forge and Target.com, I hope you are listening. Forge, you make a great bike... I hope you can make your business model work while going back to being the market competitor you once were.


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## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

Looks like the improving Chinese economy strikes again!


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## IniquitousSoul (Apr 17, 2011)

*Now a "Sub $600 Bike" Very Bummed!*

Okay, so I admit it, I'm a noob. I wanna get into some riding and have been doing my homework for awhile and was about to finally order the Sawback 5xx this morning and found to my SHOCK :nono: this bike went up 27% overnight and is now $560 on Target and that PLUS shipping on Amazon.

Forge & Target lost a sale. Now I get to keep looking for another bike, though! LOL

This bike, imho, is no longer a "great bike for the money"


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## austanian (Jun 15, 2011)

IniquitousSoul said:


> Okay, so I admit it, I'm a noob. I wanna get into some riding and have been doing my homework for awhile and was about to finally order the Sawback 5xx this morning and found to my SHOCK :nono: this bike went up 27% overnight and is now $560 on Target and that PLUS shipping on Amazon.
> 
> Forge & Target lost a sale. Now I get to keep looking for another bike, though! LOL
> 
> This bike, imho, is no longer a "great bike for the money"


We have already pointed you to the right bike for you. The Dawes Haymaker 1500. IF you were going to buy a Forge you can just get that instead. Just 419. THe links are earlier in the thread. ^^^^


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

Search for target.com coupons or AAA members get 10% on target.com. I have lots of miles on my Forge, still a great bike and value in my view.


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## austanian (Jun 15, 2011)

bikefun said:


> Search for target.com coupons or AAA members get 10% on target.com. I have lots of miles on my Forge, still a great bike and value in my view.


If other online sites didn't exist I would agree with you, but they do and the components on those bikes have better parts.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_trail08.htm

This bike has better parts across the board and will arrive at your door slightly cheaper then even a 10% off forge bike. It sucks to say. I was amazed at Forges support. They sent me out a new crank arm for free and paid to have a bike shop put it on. That is amazing service.


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## bikefun (Jun 15, 2006)

Forge has great service, which is worth it for me. Also, I felt comfortable dealing with Target, no questions ask when dealing with Target.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

Reviving old thread for one question. What of ridi g is this bike for? XC, trail, all mountain?
Best Affordable Hard-Tail Mountain Bikes - Best Mountain Bike under 500


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ga_Heretic said:


> Reviving old thread for one question. What of ridi g is this bike for? XC, trail, all mountain?
> Best Affordable Hard-Tail Mountain Bikes - Best Mountain Bike under 500


It's an entry level hardtail. General XC/trail riding. Wheels on the ground. Maybe small incidental air (less than 1ft vert, I'd say). A little bit of roughness, and that's about it. The fork and wheels are major limiting factors. Of course, there's also no detailed geometry chart, either.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

Harold said:


> It's an entry level hardtail. General XC/trail riding. Wheels on the ground. Maybe small incidental air (less than 1ft vert, I'd say). A little bit of roughness, and that's about it. The fork and wheels are major limiting factors. Of course, there's also no detailed geometry chart, either.


What do you mean geometry chart? and I just changed wheels to azonic outlaws plus changed to platform style pedals, 680mm bar w/80mm stem and ergo grips. Forks and dropper post are next on list


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

detailed geometry chart:








No amount of component swapping is going to make this bike something it isn't. XC bikes have specific charateristics of their frame geometry and construction. You can't slap on burlier wheels and a long travel fork and make it anything but a heavy XC bike. I wouldn't put anything more than a 100mm fork on it, and I wouldn't even bother with a really nice one. The frame isn't THAT good of a platform to spend a ton of money on upgrades. I have had bikes similar to it over the years. There becomes a point where a newer, better bike is just better for what you're trying to do with a mountain of upgrades.

Some dude locally was selling a XC full suspension bike on c-list that he had modded HEAVILY with a bunch of downhill parts. He was selling it as a "downhill bike". :madman: It was still a cross country full suspension bike, but he ruined it with otherwise good parts trying to turn the frame into something it could never be. It wasn't built robust enough, and the geometry was not correct for a downhill bike.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

OK cool I understand. Yeah I'm (NOT) trying to make it an AM, DH. I just have some switch backs (I love taking corners) near me that I want to dominate. And I figure getting the bike with better geometrical parts for my comfortability wouldn't be that bad in cost. B/c purchasing a more expensive bike and then still having to upgrade it doesn't compute in my head. I mean I'm not going professional lol


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Since we're talking about BD and cheap bikes, check out bike island too. They sell BD bikes with some scratches on them for deep discounts. Its the same company, I think the guys wife runs bike island though.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ga_Heretic said:


> OK cool I understand. Yeah I'm (NOT) trying to make it an AM, DH. I just have some switch backs (I love taking corners) near me that I want to dominate. And I figure getting the bike with better geometrical parts for my comfortability wouldn't be that bad in cost. B/c purchasing a more expensive bike and then still having to upgrade it doesn't compute in my head. I mean I'm not going professional lol


Handling switchbacks is more of a skill question than a bike question.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

ehhh, somewhat. When your bar isnt wide enough for you to push/lean in the corner. It becomes noticeable when you ride a bike that has a better bar setup geared toward it


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

If you're struggling skill-wise to clear switchbacks, a certain bike setup might help you a bit. More skill will fix the problem and you'll ride them well on anything though. Tight switchbacks on dirt can be a lot of fun on a road bike, and thats a really bad setup for riding trails!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ga_Heretic said:


> ehhh, somewhat. When your bar isnt wide enough for you to push/lean in the corner. It becomes noticeable when you ride a bike that has a better bar setup geared toward it


I didn't say it had nothing to do with the bike. I said skills are MORE of a factor.

Certain bikes make certain things easier, sure. I get that. I bought a mtb a year ago that was my first new mtb in 12 years. It's VERY different from my older mtb and the different handling characteristics make some things easier, and some things harder. If there are certain skills I could only do on one bike or the other, though, then I have a skill deficit.

Even though the new bike has a rather long wheelbase, switchbacks are no easier or more difficult than before. I've just never had a problem with them in general. There's some technical stuff that I've always found challenging, and there's a local trail that I'll NEVER be skilled enough to ride all the way through with no walking. But none of that has much of anything to do with the bike I'm riding.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

Harold said:


> There's some technical stuff that I've always found challenging, and there's a local trail that I'll NEVER be skilled enough to ride all the way through with no walking. But none of that has much of anything to do with the bike I'm riding.


Man tell me about it. There are these two hills on my local trail and I pretty much call me mountain's lol. But once next year comes I going to master it


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

if any one ever stumbles across this researching about Forge Sawback 5xx im here to say that with $150 in upgrades to the bars/shorter stem/ and pedals you will be happy with your new control of the bike. It is a little on the heavy end of the spectrum but it will certainly take a thrashing.


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## Doublebase (Aug 29, 2015)

I put my Forge to rest last summer, it had gotten to the point where I was either going to have to sink money into it or go out and get a different bike. After years of service and abuse I decided to "upgrade" and purchased a Specialized Rockhopper. Biggest mistake I could have made...total piece of junk...wish I had just kept the Forge. The Rockhopper dropped chains every time I road it - took it back to the bike shop 3 times before they finally shortened the chain, removed a ring, put a bash guard on it and a chain stay. That kept the chain from falling off, but it didn't help the garbage pogo stick shock that the bike came with (80mm travel). The Forge had a much better feel...better shock, better overall components and it took a pounding from me.

I ended up selling the Rockhopper...ended up getting $500 for it two months after I bought it...I paid $720 initially. My thought was I was buying a "higher quality" bike, when in actuality all I was buying was a name. I figured I'd upgrade it, but then I started to read/hear that Specialeized Rockhopper frames were no longer high quality...ran into a guy on the trail one day and sure enough he told me his frame had cracked by the bottom bracket, that was it for me.

Went out and bought a Santa Cruz 5010 carbon - obviously a different animal all together - and a much different price range ($3000). But I honestly feel the Forge could handle everything that I've thrown at my Santa Cruz...it maybe couldn't do it as fast or as easily, but it certainly could (and did) handle the miles and miles of technical single track I put it through. Solid bike. An absolute bargain. A department store anomaly. Miss that bike.


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## Ga_Heretic (May 17, 2015)

definitely glad that someone else still deems it a good thing to reply to old threads to update those in search of the best value. I myself am considering upgrading the fork and perhaps giving these cleat pedals a try. after that there wont be much else in upgrading the bike.


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## bikerme01 (May 1, 2016)

Checkout the new FORGE Sawback 7xx. Sweet buy!
Forge Sawback 7XX Mountain - 27.5" Bike : Target


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## Doublebase (Aug 29, 2015)

bikerme01 said:


> Checkout the new FORGE Sawback 7xx. Sweet buy!
> Forge Sawback 7XX Mountain - 27.5" Bike : Target


I'm kind of partial to the old one, that was a bike that really packed a lot of bang for your buck...it had better cranks, fork, tires, rims, dérailleur. Don't get me wrong, this bike is still a good bargain, it actually has similar components to the Specialized Rockhopper I bought last year, but the prior model was a better bike. And it is a $100 dollars cheaper.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Still have my '07 model. It hasn't seen much trail duty since I built a fs in'10. Put slicks on it at one point for road use. Although the fork (r7) could use a little love, I wouldn't hesitate to ride it on xc trails.

The new one looks like any other dept store type bike - nothing like the old models.


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