# Ti crankset manufacturer ?



## 20_bandh (May 19, 2004)

Hello, anyone know where I can get my hands on a Ti crankset ? Moratti dont make them anymore  Any suggestions ?


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

20_bandh said:


> Hello, anyone know where I can get my hands on a Ti crankset ? Moratti dont make them anymore  Any suggestions ?


XACD makes titanium cranksets to custom specs pretty cheap. Also, if you look hard enough you cant still find moratis. I found a set for a friend not too long ago.


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## madhatter (Apr 15, 2005)

*SR Ti crankset*

I recently came across a seven duo on the german seven cycles website (http://www.sevencycles.de/?lang=&page=1&news=209) with a SR Ti titanium crankset. Never heard of it though and couldn`t find it anywhere on the web

I`d also love to get my hands on a Morati however...


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

20_bandh said:


> Hello, anyone know where I can get my hands on a Ti crankset ? Moratti dont make them anymore  Any suggestions ?


Ya, here's why Morati stopped making Ti cranks. This was my non-driveside crankarm after a XC ride. I'm 135lbs.




























I'm now running FSA Carbon Pros (3-yrs) and Team Carbons (1-yr) on my MTBs....no issues (well, except for the Platinum Pro Ti ISIS BB...but, that's another thread).

And, here's WAZCO's snapped driveside Morati:


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

But Mike, you have to remember, not all of them failed. If you find a set that has been used, preferably by a heavier rider, and its been holding up, then no doubt it will have some life left in it. I met a guy on the trails last year who had been riding his set since they came out and they were fine. The guy was not 135lbs.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Wasn't it less than 1% failure? Which is "unexceptable", but not entirely unheard of.

I have a pair, thanks to TheRedSchiavo, and they are used and don't have any cracks... 

(haven't ridden them, but don't expect them to rip apart)

They are out there, but desperately hard to find. If you do find them, they might be attached to a full bike that you might need to part out. Which I did, and in turn helped me get the cranks for free (basically).


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

TheRedMantra said:


> But Mike, you have to remember, not all of them failed. If you find a set that has been used, preferably by a heavier rider, and its been holding up, then no doubt it will have some life left in it. I met a guy on the trails last year who had been riding his set since they came out and they were fine. The guy was not 135lbs.


Agreed, not ALL of them failed, but mine did...and, for me, that's enough. I'm not about to risk another busted set of arms, so I went with some FSA Carbons instead (a lot heavier, but after 3-yrs, they are still going strong). "Terminaut" has had excellent results with his Moratis and he rides hard, so there are good pairs out there. Unfortunately, mine was not one of them.

The fact that Morati is no longer making cranks should be an indication of problems. As a result: _caveat emptor_ (buyer beware).


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

donkekus said:


> Wasn't it less than 1% failure? Which is "unexceptable", but not entirely unheard of.


I'm not sure what the failure rate percentage is/was. I know there have been more than a few reported here. Plus, I've received emails from other Morati crank owners who have busted there's, too. So, it is not isolated.



donkekus said:


> I have a pair, thanks to TheRedSchiavo, and they are used and don't have any cracks...
> 
> (haven't ridden them, but don't expect them to rip apart)


Funny...neither did I 

Just make sure you keep an eye on your arms. Mine failed catastrophically without warning. I was pretty lucky that nothing else (other than the snapped arm) happened...I could have lost control and crashed, sliced my ankle/achilles with the razor-sharp arm, etc. I think I got off lucky.

The failure of my arms was certainly attributed to a stress concentration created at the weld where the pedal insert is welded to the main arm.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Once upon a time CQP used to make them too..
I still have a pic on my server

And here is another pic of Moratis which I believe will be too fragile for you


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## madhatter (Apr 15, 2005)

*SR Ti crankset*

The SR crankset I mentioned in a previous post...They seem to be forged instead of welded tubes, migh be stronger I guess. Has anyone ever seen them in real life? I googled them and found nothing  The CQP cranks sure look nice, what`s their reputation otherwise?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Hey Mike :

I wonder, were yours 94mm? or, 110mm?

I wonder if the failures were more in one size than the other. 

Wazco's look like 94...


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## 20_bandh (May 19, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> which I believe will be too fragile for you


I´m surprised, but the above pics probably explain why Morati no longer make cranks. I´m probably going to go for the Race Face DEUS, I don´t think there will be any structural issues there. You use BOONE rings don´t you ? Do they shift as well as the standard Race Face rings ?


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

I have a copy of the Finite Element Analisys Morati conducted (in cooperation with Hope and Honeywell!) before they intruduced the cranks to the market. It said, the cranks will last forever as long as the raw material meets the standard. After the failures, Morati made some research as to the cause of the failures, and found that they made no errors during the manufacturing, and quality control. (They use the most advanced X-ray analisys on every product required by Honeywell - the owner of the Morati factory - which supplies titanium parts for Boeing jet engines.) Hence the FEA program is not perfect at calculating the stress caused by pedalling a bike...

-b


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

donkekus said:


> Hey Mike :
> 
> I wonder, were yours 94mm? or, 110mm?


Mine were standards (110mm). But, it was the non-driveside of mine that broke, so I don't see how that would factor-in.


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

20_bandh said:


> I´m surprised, but the above pics probably explain why Morati no longer make cranks. I´m probably going to go for the Race Face DEUS, I don´t think there will be any structural issues there. You use BOONE rings don´t you ? Do they shift as well as the standard Race Face rings ?


I used a granny and middle Boone Ti ring with my Moratis (nice, light set-up) and never had any issues with them. At the time, they were just straight rings: no ramps, pins, etc. I believe pins and ramps are now offered on some of the Boone rings, if you need them. The wear and durability of the Boones was incredible...my rings showed little to no wear after 2 seasons. Then, "snap" went the Moratis.

Now that my FSA stock rings are worn and need replacing, I'm contemplating getting another set of Boone Ti's. But, the cost is 3x that of the stock FSAs. Will the last 3x as long as the FSAs? Hard to say, but, I'd guess they'd last at least twice as long as the FSAs, and they just look sooooo nice. Drool!


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

macsi said:


> I have a copy of the Finite Element Analisys Morati conducted (in cooperation with Hope and Honeywell!) before they intruduced the cranks to the market.


Oooh, I'd love to see those. As a Structural Engineer, who did a lot of work with ANSYS and other FEA packages for my Masters, I'd be very curious to see the analysis of the Moratis. 



> It said, the cranks will last forever as long as the raw material meets the standard. After the failures, Morati made some research as to the cause of the failures, and found that they made no errors during the manufacturing, and quality control.


I was very curious as to the results of any testing/analysis Morati did on my busted cranks, but I never heard anything back. I was happy just to get a full cash refund, so I left it alone.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

20_bandh said:


> You use BOONE rings don´t you ? Do they shift as well as the standard Race Face rings ?


No, they do not have shifting aids or ramps, so you have to shift more consciously.. in practice it's not a big problem though  .


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## WAZCO (Apr 5, 2004)

*Morati owner says it's more like 12% failure*



1speed_Mike said:


> I'm not sure what the failure rate percentage is/was. I know there have been more than a few reported here. Plus, I've received emails from other Morati crank owners who have busted there's, too. So, it is not isolated.
> 
> Miroslav Pokorny (owner) told me the number will rise due to poor welding. I bought mine from Jeff at Mrazek and he too has seen a large number of broken cranks. He guess that 15-20 people has reported their broken cranks. Keep in mind that these were 700 dollars cranks and not a lot of people has them.


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## terminaut (Dec 19, 2003)

1speed_Mike said:


> "Terminaut" has had excellent results with his Moratis and he rides hard, so there are good pairs out there. Unfortunately, mine was not one of them.


I've definitely hammered on my pairs and have been fortunate thus far. When I first heard of the failures, I backed off any real aggresive riding on them... but then as my confidence grew with usage of the cranks I pretty much don't think about it anymore. Check out my Duo thread to see some action shots. Click here for the link.



1speed_Mike said:


> The fact that Morati is no longer making cranks should be an indication of problems. As a result: _caveat emptor_ (buyer beware).


Words to live by.

...and on that note, I would like to buy anyone's Morati cranks that are available.  Left arms, right arms, pairs... I'll take them all!

PS: I recently found these funky 6/4 ti plate cranks on the web... I forgot who made them though. Didn't pay much attention as the aesthetics don't do much for me.









​
Also, a company called "Fab Mac, LLC" also used to make some ti cranks that are waranteed for life. I run a set on my cyclocross bike and they bet me that I couldn't break them. They've been right so far!


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

1speed_Mike said:


> Oooh, I'd love to see those. As a Structural Engineer, who did a lot of work with ANSYS and other FEA packages for my Masters, I'd be very curious to see the analysis of the Moratis.
> I was very curious as to the results of any testing/analysis Morati did on my busted cranks, but I never heard anything back. I was happy just to get a full cash refund, so I left it alone.


I informad Morati about this thread and asked how much info could be made public. The answer was: as much as what I have written. This is the official info concerning the crankset issue...

Just to clarify: I don't work for Morati. There was a project a few years back where we cooperated and have the info from this. This is also how I got hold of all my Morati frame, forks and parts, which serve my very well indeed 

-b


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

WAZCO said:


> Miroslav Pokorny (owner) told me the number will rise due to poor welding.


Miroslav Pokorny is the marketing manager of Mora Aerospace, Bicycle division. He speaks very little English, so you're probably fluent in Checz... It was probably a misunderstanding: none of the failure happened at the welding spots - almost all crankarms failed 1/3 way from the pedal eyelet on the tube itself.

-b


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

macsi said:


> I informad Morati about this thread and asked how much info could be made public. The answer was: as much as what I have written. This is the official info concerning the crankset issue...


Ok, that's cool. I wasn't really expecting Morati to let those be released to the general public. Although, I'd still really like to see the FEA results. 

I posted my busted cranks as an FYI only. I think anyone looking for an ultra-lightweight Ti crankset should be, at the very least, be made aware of structural and manufacturing issues associated with these cranks. I think, having read this post, had I not posted the pics, I would be doing the original poster a dis-service. At which point, Customer X, can make a conscious decision to buy or not.

For me, at 135lbs and having gambled with the weight-weenie bug (and lost in some instances), I won't be going near Ti cranks anymore. I've been bashing on my 2 pairs of FSA Carbons for over 3-yrs on my original set and 1 very hard season (including TransRockies) on my other set. To me, they've proven themselves durable, reliable, etc. Now, the FSA Platinum Ti ISIS BB....that's another story 

As for Morati, I've got nothing but good things to write/say about their customer service. Even before my busted cranks, they treated me well...always answered my questions in a timely manner, etc. When I busted my crankarm, they were very concerned and offered me a full cash refund since they no longer made the cranks, or, I could use the refund towards another Morati product...I opted for the cash since I already had a Morati Ti disc-only MTB fork (that I use during the winter) and it's still going.


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

1speed_Mike said:


> As for Morati, I've got nothing but good things to write/say about their customer service. Even before my busted cranks, they treated me well...always answered my questions in a timely manner, etc. When I busted my crankarm, they were very concerned and offered me a full cash refund since they no longer made the cranks, or, I could use the refund towards another Morati product...I opted for the cash since I already had a Morati Ti disc-only MTB fork (that I use during the winter) and it's still going.


I agree. Here are some of the pics I took at the factory...

-b


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## VT Mike (Jan 12, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Once upon a time CQP used to make them too..
> I still have a pic on my server


I remember seeing a set of those CQP cranks in a local shop back around 1994. They were on sale, marked down from $600 to $300. If I wasn't in college and jobless at the time, I probably would have bought them.


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## Dr. Paul Proteus (Sep 26, 2004)

*FEA - What goes in is what comes out...*



macsi said:


> ...Hence the FEA program is not perfect at calculating the stress caused by pedalling a bike...


FEA does not calculate stress caused by pedaling a bike, it simply analyzes based on loads defined by the engineer running the study. So... if the engineer assumes a load of X and runs the study, but the part is subjected to a load of Y in the real world, the FEA study will not predict what will happen in the real world.


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## 1speed_Mike (Jan 27, 2004)

Dr. Paul Proteus said:


> FEA does not calculate stress caused by pedaling a bike, it simply analyzes based on loads defined by the engineer running the study. So... if the engineer assumes a load of X and runs the study, but the part is subjected to a load of Y in the real world, the FEA study will not predict what will happen in the real world.


Exactly....garbage in, garbage out.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

macsi said:


> I agree. Here are some of the pics I took at the factory...
> 
> -b


What kind of welding is the man on the last picture doing?
I thought titanium was welded in an oxygen-free environment?


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, it is an oxygen free environment. It's TIG welding, for tungsten inert gas, or GTAW (gas tungsten arc welding). And electrical arc creates the heat, the operator controls the amperage with a foot pedal, and there's a sheilding gas (usually argon) the flows out of the nozzle to protect the molten puddle from any oxygen contamination. Most decent tig welding machines also have a post flow control to continue flowing sheilding gas after the arc us shut down for a predetermined amount of time to prevent oxidation before he puddle solidifies.


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## rjpstoked (Jan 14, 2004)

*2 cents on Boone rings*

Just thought I would share that Brett is working on his design for ramps as per my (and I am sure others)request for 960 xtr's chainrings. Unfortunately he is overwhelmed by product demand (darn those singlespeeders) and hasnt worked out the design to his standard. I also have asked him to cut me 11,12,13, 15t cogs w/spacers for use with my dura ace cassette. He told me he will make them so the assembly will pin together when assembled creating a wider base to distribute the torque. I posted this before but here is a pic of a prototype 31t chainring he let me use till he gets the rings finalized. Great shifting as far as I am concerned, but I am not expert at riding like mike. And by the way, I appreciate a company that wont sell a product that they feel is not up to their potential and going out of his way to mail me a chain ring to use while I wait (like an idiot, I sold my xtr chainrings to help pay for cassette cogs before recieving replacement)


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Hey man, just cruise eBay until some TiWings come around again...


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

EBasil said:


> Hey man, just cruise eBay until some TiWings come around again...


Ya, cruise for a few years...


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## VT Mike (Jan 12, 2004)

bmadau said:


> Yes, it is an oxygen free environment. It's TIG welding, for tungsten inert gas, or GTAW (gas tungsten arc welding). And electrical arc creates the heat, the operator controls the amperage with a foot pedal, and there's a sheilding gas (usually argon) the flows out of the nozzle to protect the molten puddle from any oxygen contamination. Most decent tig welding machines also have a post flow control to continue flowing sheilding gas after the arc us shut down for a predetermined amount of time to prevent oxidation before he puddle solidifies.


With Ti, don't they need to also pump the sheilding gas into the tubes?


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

VT Mike said:


> With Ti, don't they need to also pump the sheilding gas into the tubes?


No they don't. Actually the second last picture is even more interesting. It's a "pressure cooker", where they put the shaped tubes for 20 hours to regain the original crystal structure of titanium. Most manufacturers don't bother with this - simply cold work the tubes, weld it and that's it...

One more picture of unbroken cranks. Maybe some are not familiar with the second type of Morati cranks...

-b


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## tisingle (Jan 26, 2004)

yes, argon must also be inside the tubes also or the weld will break from contamination from oxygen.



VT Mike said:


> With Ti, don't they need to also pump the sheilding gas into the tubes?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Any more pics of Morati stuff? Gotta love them...


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

*Back by popular demand...*



donkekus said:


> Any more pics of Morati stuff? Gotta love them...


Descriptions:
1. Thomas Frischneckt's CX fork just after welding
3. Part of the jig
2. Morari welds are works of art. I never seen anything like them on Moots, Merlin or anything. There are 40 highly qualified titanium welders at the factory, and only 3 can work on bikes, since they have the steadies hands and make the most even welds...

-b


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

*One more...*

This guy is one of the three bike welders, and on the jig you can see the argon gas entering the frame...

-b


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Macsi, thanks! This is awesome! 

I want to visit the factory... 

How far from Prague? 
Are you in Czech?


P.S. Do they do any custom work?


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## xc-rider (Jan 16, 2004)

Hi Guys,
Here are the SR MECA










any more pictures of the Morati factory ? that's very interesting, I want to see more !!!!!! 

Best regards
Pierre

www.mootsfrance.com

Ps : I'll try to get a hand on some Isis Sr Meca, I'd really like to have them on my new bike... (titanium inside  )


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## dansjustchillin (Apr 8, 2004)

*Eastern bike ti cranks*

TI Crank Arms 48 Spline 
TI Hollow 48 Spline Spindle 
Eastern Pro BB with Super wide bearings

Weights 
1.35 pounds including BB 
1 lb. Crank Arms and spin

that's off the website. these are on danscomp.com for about $450. there are also a number of ti sprokets and other ti parts for various bmx cranks on there. lots of options i'm sur alot of people havent concidered for their mtb.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Where are they on Danscomp?!


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## dansjustchillin (Apr 8, 2004)

donkekus said:


> Where are they on Danscomp?!


i dunno i'm not seeing them on the website. i just got the summer catalog yesturday and they're in there for 449.99 part number is #451026 and they come 175 0r 180 mm


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

http://danscomp.crossmediaservices....5479853&flash=Y&justsetzone=y&storeid=2418069

I don't think those cranks are really out yet... but they are nice! Esp. w/ BB included.


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## dansjustchillin (Apr 8, 2004)

donkekus said:


> http://danscomp.crossmediaservices....5479853&flash=Y&justsetzone=y&storeid=2418069
> 
> I don't think those cranks are really out yet... but they are nice! Esp. w/ BB included.


yeah that's what it says on the eastern website, but thats danscomps bad for putting them in the new catalog. here it is.


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## dualsport650 (Nov 4, 2004)

Man those look nice.

Here's the link to their web site...
https://www.easternbikes.com/a/products/parts/ticranks.html


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Someone buy those and try them out, and let me know how they ride....


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

donkekus said:


> Macsi, thanks! This is awesome!
> 
> I want to visit the factory...
> 
> ...


It is located 10 kms east of Olomouc, in the north-eastern corner of the Czech Republic, 500 kms from Prague. I live two contries away but only 220 km from the factory. It's not easy to visit the factory, since they do mostly stuff for their owner, Honeywell, who is the main supplier of titanium parts to Boeing... and to the U.S. army. It wasn't easy to take pictures, so nothing secret is shown. Good luck!

-b


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## macsi (Dec 3, 2004)

*Well...*



dualsport650 said:


> Man those look nice.


I think there is a difference. Here is my fork's crown. Judge the welding for yourself!

-b


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