# And so it begins, the Teesdale brave restoration



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Finally it has arrived. Original decals, NOS rollercams and a custom fork from the man himself. I have a full period correct XTR build waiting. It looks like the paint was an orange and black fade with white splatter. Not particular to my taste but I want to stay true to the original artwork. The paint will be done by the Cunninghams at Cycleart. They were responsible for the original design and they still have all the original prints.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

More pics, sorry they aren't so good.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

very very interesting. 
your best project so far.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

neat! I am looking forward to it!


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

nice. i would clear coat as is and ride it.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

uno-speedo said:


> nice. i would clear coat as is and ride it.


I thought about doing that but having the guy that did the original art right up the street from me kinda sealed the deal. It would cost me almost as much to have it clearcoated as it will to have the paint done.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

sandmangts said:


> It would cost me almost as much to have it clearcoated as it will to have the paint done.


depending on who you are using


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Cool frame! Am I the only one who sees fork blades in the chainstays? Or am I off the back, and everyone knew that was the case???


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Cool frame! Am I the only one who sees fork blades in the chainstays? Or am I off the back, and everyone knew that was the case???


everybody knows.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

yep. them's fork blades.


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## jacdykema (Apr 10, 2006)

purty.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

colker1 said:


> everybody knows.


Great, like being the last kid in class to discover the "new" cool band.....:madman:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Hey anbody know where I can get a seat stay pulley for the front derailler cable? It looks like I could just take a pulley off an old rollercam but I want to get the right part. Maybe QBP? Taking it to CycleArt today to go over some ideas.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

sandmangts said:


> Maybe QBP?


Yep, for sure.:thumbsup:


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Great, like being the last kid in class to discover the "new" cool band.....:madman:


otoh.. maybe i am wrong... i am not a frame builder but if you are going to weld a fork as chainstays and expect the blades to act like passive susp. wouldn't you need the thinest flexiest seatstays? ones you would never place your rear brakes?


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

colker1 said:


> otoh.. maybe i am wrong... i am not a frame builder but if you are going to weld a fork as chainstays and expect the blades to act like passive susp. wouldn't you need the thinest flexiest seatstays? ones you would never place your rear brakes?


This is my second Brave e-stay bike. I can tell you that they have more lateral flex than alot of frames. I am not sure if passive suspension was the reason behind using fork blades but I can tell you that my other warrior had a smooth compliant ride that was quite nice but it was one of the later models with an extra brace welded in. That one had canti's and braking always felt solid.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> This is my second Brave e-stay bike. I can tell you that they have more lateral flex than alot of frames. I am not sure if passive suspension was the reason behind using fork blades but I can tell you that my other warrior had a smooth compliant ride that was quite nice but it was one of the later models with an extra brace welded in. That one had canti's and braking always felt solid.


now you can compare it to your Ritchey which is a benchmark for ride quality.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

I may have the original off my Brave - racer that I use to have. If I can find it its yours. BITD I replaced it with spare from a Yeti fro. Theirs were Bullseye made sealed bearing pulleys. You could ask them if they have any laying around. If they ever answer your email or phone calls. It may take me a few days to look for my pulley but I'll let you know.
CT



sandmangts said:


> Hey anbody know where I can get a seat stay pulley for the front derailler cable? It looks like I could just take a pulley off an old rollercam but I want to get the right part. Maybe QBP? Taking it to CycleArt today to go over some ideas.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> I may have the original off my Brave - racer that I use to have. If I can find it its yours. BITD I replaced it with spare from a Yeti fro. Theirs were Bullseye made sealed bearing pulleys. You could ask them if they have any laying around. If they ever answer your email or phone calls. It may take me a few days to look for my pulley but I'll let you know.
> CT


Wow thanks!


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Cool frame! Am I the only one who sees fork blades in the chainstays? Or am I off the back, and everyone knew that was the case???


Actually guys, not fork blades at all.

The stays used in the Brave bikes were a piece produced by Tange specifically for elevated chainstay use. The stay uses an oval top profile that tapers to a round terminus with a thicker wall and butting profile that allowed for more compliance from the center of the tube. The heavier terminus end enabled the piece to be brazed or tig'd to the dropout, providing plenty of material for either slotting or butting. The blades came straight and were hand bent to meet the requirements of the frame size.

Alas, these pieces were popular for only a short time and fell out of favor with the elevated design. When Tange moved from Japan to Taiwan, they left behind 8 city blocks of buildings full of "outdated" dies for the scrappers to deal with.

Bill Grove found a box of these blades in his friends barn, where a lot of the Grove stuff went when the doors closed, and passed them on to me to play with. I found that the length and butting profile is perfect for rigid 29er forks, allowing for an aesthetic tapering desing that can support a disc tab.

Kirk Pacenti is currently working his magic to have these reproduced for me in as close to the original spec as possible and should have them available by early winter...fingers crossed  I've included a pic of the blades as a fork below.

So, the Elevated stay that was thought to be a fork blade has actually found it's new home as one...curious how things come to be 

Hope I didn't take away too much from the original intent of the thread...the FB'd Chief is dead sexy.

cheers,

rody


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rody said:


> Actually guys, not fork blades at all.
> 
> The stays used in the Brave bikes were a piece produced by Tange specifically for elevated chainstay use. The stay uses an oval top profile that tapers to a round terminus with a thicker wall and butting profile that allowed for more compliance from the center of the tube. The heavier terminus end enabled the piece to be brazed or tig'd to the dropout, providing plenty of material for either slotting or butting. The blades came straight and were hand bent to meet the requirements of the frame size.
> 
> rody


so that's what the schwinn paramounts used?


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

sandmangts said:


> Wow thanks!


No problem. The way I see it is if I hold on to it long enough, I'm going to want to build a bike around it.  Plus its one of those things that if some one who can use it and make their project closer to perfect then why not. PM me your address and I send it out sometime this week. 
I kinda miss my Racer. I think it was my second or mountain bike. Had the frame fork and stem. Not sure who built the frame. Had the non elevated stays and a strait blade fork that looked a lot like the one on Rody's bike below. Man, I remember racing that thing in a downhill and watching that fork vibrate fore and aft so much. I swear I thought I was never going to reach my 16th birthday. Scary ****. Maybe nt as scary as the two weeks I had a scott uni shock on it though. Would love to find the dude I sold it to. He's around here somewhere.:skep:


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## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Aaron!

That thing is freakin' beautiful in the raw. I can't wait to see itonce your done with it.

Tim


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## slimjoe (Dec 1, 2005)

*Paint progress*

Any nearer with the paint on the Chief?

Looking forward to seeing what you decided on paintwise

Mines at the paintshop right now!


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Friday! I am picking it up and I can't wait to get to work on it. I went with a tri-color fade with splash just like the originals. Red white and blue. Full first gen XTR kit. I have an XTR headset but I am missing the crown race. Do you guys know if an xt crown race will work on an xtr headset?

Thanks to ckevlar for the cable pulley!


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Wow---can't wait to see it.


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## dontyoueatthatyellowsnow (Nov 21, 2005)

I have been waiting for this one! Cant wait to see it.
I may have the race you need. Will check the bin.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

sandmangts said:


> Do you guys know if an xt crown race will work on an xtr headset?


How-about Dura ace?


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I could not wait any longer. All I can say is Cyclart is worth every penny. They do a full anti-rust treatment and the details are spot-on. The pics are not so good, poor lighting but I wanted to show it off.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Very well done! That looks great. Did you have a stem made too, or something else repainted?


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Nice. I remember my Racers stem having 2 bolts on the clamp like an IRD or Cooks stem. I could be wrong though as i never used it and had a Gecko on it. Thats going to look sharp.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

It is a Tioga. I had it on my Warrior a long time ago. The Warrior was the same size so I figured it would be a good fit.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

What does Cycleart do to treat the frame for rust?


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

Looks ace!


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> What does Cycleart do to treat the frame for rust?


 They use a chemical rust inhibitor to coat the inside of the tubes.


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

Nice.


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Great paint job! Can't wait to see it built.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Just getting some parts together. Lightly used xtr etc. I still need a crown race.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Looking great Aaron....


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

You must already know this, but combining Servo-Wave levers with rollercams (assuming you have the curved plates) is going to give extremely powerful brakes.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

uphiller said:


> You must already know this, but combining Servo-Wave levers with rollercams (assuming you have the curved plates) is going to give extremely powerful brakes.


I am a big guy. I know they will be very strong but I really want to use the XTR's. I have a similar combo on my Mountain Klein and I like the feel. We will see how it works. Nothing is set in stone and I can always change it up. Besides I am used to Avid Elixers and Hope mono disks. I appreciate the advise. I still need a crown race but I found a local shop that somehow managed to get a buyout lot of NOS stuff. I am going there next week to get a NOS XT post. I will see what else he has and let you guys know.


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

that is an awesome looking frame, can't wait to see it built up.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Nice attention to detail :thumbsup: 

i know Cyclart charges a lot for their paint but all the frames I see come out of there are pretty much perfect.

Bike will be very nice once it's done. I'm surprised that since you were doing a repaint you didn't move the brake bosses to accept m900 canti's. But it will be original that's for sure.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

+1. 

What's the brake boss spacing on that thing?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Hope you're going to 86 the purple bolts/pulleys.....................


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

crconsulting said:


> Nice attention to detail :thumbsup:
> 
> i know Cyclart charges a lot for their paint but all the frames I see come out of there are pretty much perfect.
> 
> Bike will be very nice once it's done. I'm surprised that since you were doing a repaint you didn't move the brake bosses to accept m900 canti's. But it will be original that's for sure.


I thought of that but I have a thing for rollercams and I wanted to stay with the original design. Not sure what the spacing is but I will measure it. I would like to get the wheels rebuilt. The hubs are in excellent shape as is the cassette but the rims are the Trek Matrix house brand. What rims would you guys recommend? Ritchey Vantage would probably have been the original spec. I would like to get them built custom, maybe with red, white and blue spokes or something. Screw it, the paint is crazy as hell so I may as well. And yes the purple ano is going bye bye.

My XTR headset is missing the crown race and my old king no logo headset has a crack.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Please don't paint the spokes or the nipples.
Whats wrong with the rims? Ride em wear them out and then replace them. Maybe with some Mavic 217s. If you dont like that they say trek on them take the decal off. I'm sure their decent enough for now.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> Please don't paint the spokes or the nipples.
> Whats wrong with the rims? Ride em wear them out and then replace them. Maybe with some Mavic 217s. If you dont like that they say trek on them take the decal off. I'm sure their decent enough for now.


I should have mentioned they are a bit torn up. Brake surface is a bit rough. I would not paint the the spokes, Just saying if I rebuild them I would consider using ano spoke nipples. Just a touch of color. I will probably try a little sanding on the bad spots. They are not visibly noticable but it could cause uneven braking. I


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

If you rebuild, black rims would be nice  
Maybe some dark grey 231s or black w/ neon pink/yellow label RM 17s.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

I personally think your frame has more than enough color for this build. It would look sharp with silver rims and some black nipples to tie into the black splatter on the frame.


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## slimjoe (Dec 1, 2005)

Yep, cycleart nailed that paintjob!

Hope my painter is up to that standard!

Going to be a lovely build your Chief. Well done.


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## Bigfoot (Jan 16, 2004)

*I had two Warriors*

The first was an early one. I don't recall that Doug Gloyd told me who actually built it. I know that it was a CycleArt paint job though. It eventually cracked on the seat-tube just above the attachment point of the seat-stays. Doug replaced it with a Teesdale built one, pictured here in the '91 Big Bear NORBA National.

I also still have my Teesdale-built Chief. One of only a handful made with ultra-light Excel straight guage tubing. I still ride it occasionally----phenomenal ride! It's pictured here with '96 vintage XTR but it has since been switched to a Kooka, Ringle, Altek mix o'blue anodized goodness.

Bigfoot


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Bigfoot, I was looking for pictures of yours when I saw that you had a Chief. Thanks so much for posting. I was going nuts trying to think of how to have it painted. I hate neon but I wanted it to look like the one CyclArt had in the brochure. I am very happy with the way it came out. The problem is it is too perfect. That first scratch is going to hurt. 

I should be starting the build next week. I am going to have to use a new King headset instead of the XTR one I have because of the missing race but it is a 1993 frame so I am not too worried about it. If I ever find a race i will throw the XTR on there. I got lucky and found a NOS 26.8 XT post. I also have some NOS Tune skewers and Carmichael pulleys.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

This thing is starting to look like a bike. It is almost finished aside from a few minor issues. The bottom bracket spindle is too long. I have 9 NOS UN-72's and not one of them was short enough. I threw the shortest one on there just so I could start the build but the chain line is way off. The rollercams in the front are sticking because the posts are new and have some primer on them so I need to sand them a bit. The rear ones work good. All told she is pretty close to period correct. Sorry about the bad picks.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Really cool frame. XTR is what, 107 or 109?


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

XTR should be 109 (depends on the frame)

Not sure about the Onza bar ends and XTR in general. I would go with Suntour XC9000 or 6000. No go for the blue AC crank self extracting thingies and the QR's. Avocet Saddle is not period correct as well. 

Just my cup of tea


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Your going to clean all the primer off both brake posts right? Should be down to the bare metal.
I'm not feeling the black bars or post. I think a silver set would make for a cleaner build.


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

I really like the color. Tasteful use of blue anno as well.


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## bd.sahib (Aug 17, 2005)

*Stem*



yo-Nate-y said:


> Very well done! That looks great. Did you have a stem made too, or something else repainted?


Needs a stem like mine.



I bet I know who might have one.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Cool Bike.
I notice you have a really early version of the M900 cassette.. it has what amounts to really small chainring nuts holding the gears to the spider. They droped this design early b/c chain lube tended to loosen whatever thread locker was on there. So just a heads up, if your shifting goes to hell, make sure those nuts/bolts aren't loose. All later cassettes used rivets.

-Schmitty-


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for the input everyone. Sometimes you just have to use what you have. I think the black post and bar ends go nicely with the black on the frame. I will ofcourse be sanding the primer off the posts and the seat post clamp will be changed as well. The saddle is the only one I have right now. I am not sure why I would opt for Suntour over XTR especially when the guy who built the bike told me it would have been spec'd with Shimano. Keep in mind this is not the finished product. I just wanted to get it built and get all the bugs worked out.

Felix is right though about the crank bolts and Tune skewers. Once I find the originals they will go back on there. They are at the bottom of a box somewhere. The Tune skewers are really light but they don't work very well and they don't stop turning when you clamp them so they could go right into the spokes.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

And you thought you wouldn't have it ready in time for K'Ville. 

My $.02....XTR seatpost w/ Flite Ti saddle, XTR headset. Might as well go across the board with the stuff.

Oh...and ditch the dorky spoke protector out back!


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> And you thought you wouldn't have it ready in time for K'Ville.
> 
> My $.02....XTR seatpost w/ Flite Ti saddle, XTR headset. Might as well go across the board with the stuff.
> 
> Oh...and ditch the dorky spoke protector out back!


That is my plan, I have a Flite Ti on my Ritchey and an XTR headset but no crown race. I also have the XTR front derailler but it is too big. I am going to put some parts in the trade thread this week so hopefully I can trade for what I need. Eventually it will go on there. You know how it is. It could take months to get it "just right".


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I used a shim to get a front derailleur down to size on my Salsa. Works great so far, and looks clean.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

sandmangts said:


> That is my plan, I have a Flite Ti on my Ritchey and an XTR headset but no crown race. I also have the XTR front derailler but it is too big. I am going to put some parts in the trade thread this week so hopefully I can trade for what I need. Eventually it will go on there. You know how it is. It could take months to get it "just right".


Good plan. And if you make it out to K'Ville, a bunch of us tend to bring parts to trade/sell. A mini vintage swap meet if you will. Someone might have what you need.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Made a few changes today just to see how it looked. I got the front brakes working good but the back are sticking. I think I need to sand the posts a little more. I threw some pedals on and rode it down to the store and back even though the front derailer does not work yet and the chainline is off I was still able to just use the small ring up front. It handles very good. Quick and nimble. I took it down some stairs and jumped a few speed bumps just to get a feel for it.

I think I will go with an XTR post and headset when I find them. I ditched the Tune skewers and the post clamp and I found a Turbo saddle.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

You guys were right about the rear brake. I reversed the rollers like many had suggested but the cable line was still not quite right and the bolt was real close to the frame so I turned the plate around backwards and voila! it works like a charm. I got the right headset. All I need now is an XTR seatpost. For Keyesville I will just run it like it is with some SPD pedals.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> All I can say is Cyclart is worth every penny.


I've dealt with cyclart twice. Both times the work was outstanding. Both times they were a PITA to deal with, seriously lacking in abilities in running a business. The restore looks great.


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## Bigfoot (Jan 16, 2004)

If you don't mind, what did Cyclart charge?

Bigfoot


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

pinguwin said:


> seriously lacking in abilities in running a business.


Artists generally do. That's why they don't have MBA's, cause the vision mattered more than "The Vision"

Agreed, they do sick work.....

A customer's MX Leader, a few years old, still awaiting parts. The quality is superb. Sorry for the less than perfect pics....


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Bigfoot said:


> If you don't mind, what did Cyclart charge?
> 
> Bigfoot


Price list here:

http://www.cyclart.com/OrderGuide.pdf

I agree with the previous comments. My Gecko has one of their cheap single color paint jobs and it looks as nice as any factory paint and seems to be holding up pretty good.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I found them most pleasant to deal with. They are perfectionists though and they will hammer you on the details to make sure you get what you want. I had a great experience with them. They even let me hang out in the shop and race slot cars with my little boy. I am pleased with the paints shine, thickness and toughness. I was adjusting the front derailer and forgot to set the low limit screw before downshifting onto the small ring. The derailler banged into the seat tube hard with a nice loud ping. I expected to see a nice chip in the paint or even a dent because of how hard it hit. To my suprise there was not even a mark.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> I found them most pleasant to deal with. They are perfectionists though and they will hammer you on the details to make sure you get what you want. I had a great experience with them. They even let me hang out in the shop and race slot cars with my little boy. I am pleased with the paints shine, thickness and toughness. I was adjusting the front derailer and forgot to set the low limit screw before downshifting onto the small ring. The derailler banged into the seat tube hard with a nice loud ping. I expected to see a nice chip in the paint or even a dent because of how hard it hit. To my suprise there was not even a mark.


Might not have hit the tube, just bottomed out on itself. I'm not sure the lowest limit on a FD would be able to hit the ST, even with the limit screw all the way out.

Nice paint, nice resto.

Plum


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Plum said:


> Might not have hit the tube, just bottomed out on itself. I'm not sure the lowest limit on a FD would be able to hit the ST, even with the limit screw all the way out.
> 
> Nice paint, nice resto.
> 
> Plum


 Believe me it hit. When I looked it was pressed against the tube. Thanks.


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## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Very nice my friend.

I just took my "new" manitou 3 to NOB to get the race transferred from my rigid fork. They had a little difficulty removing it completely intact (it's an XTR) so naturally the conversation turned to the guy with the Brave looking for an XTR headset. Sound Familiar?

Again, It looks great!

Tim

ps. here's your fork (well parts of it anyway). It came out pretty well.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thats funny Tim. I missed you by about 20 minutes. Doug said you had been in. I brought the Brave in to have Mike do his magic on it. It is all built but I trust him more to find anything I missed. I told him I was going to race it and he told me to invest in glucosamine. I am glad the fork worked for you. If you see anything else you need just let me know.


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## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

*Sorry I missed You...*

I would've loved to have seen that in person. I love that shop but it is close to work but not very close to home so I don't get in there too often. I agree with him on the Glucosamine. That elevated chain stay looks like it might be a bit harsh, but then riding it would be so fun I doubt I'd notice until well afterwards.

The Fork is great. Popped it on when I got home from work. Works great, but I might have to swap out the yellow elastomers for my spare set of reds as it feels a bit squishy. but then I'm used to rigid so it could just be perception.










Thanks again Aaron!

Tim



sandmangts said:


> Thats funny Tim. I missed you by about 20 minutes. Doug said you had been in. I brought the Brave in to have Mike do his magic on it. It is all built but I trust him more to find anything I missed. I told him I was going to race it and he told me to invest in glucosamine. I am glad the fork worked for you. If you see anything else you need just let me know.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Artists generally do. That's why they don't have MBA's, cause the vision mattered more than "The Vision"


I never bought that line of "I am an artist, I don't have to care about business." If you don't care about business, don't charge money. I have encountered that BS attitude with a number of people and have stopped dealing with that crap. For example, one shop said they would have my bike painted in one month. Five months later, I still didn't have a painted bike and I pleaded with them to send the bike back unpainted as I had a vacation coming up. I missed several days of a cycling vacation because of this delay. I had one custom airbrusher who told me that he was tired of prima donnas in the industry who say how artistic they are and don't need to take care of their customers and he was insistent on being a professional. So I gave him a try....months later, I still didn´t have my work. :madman: I have an artistic background also. A masters in computer science and art and am active in creating works, so I do understand the creative process a little bit.

That said, I had some custom painting done on a new fork on a cyclart painted bike. When I got the fork back, I gasped. It was HORRIBLE. So bad that I sent the fork into cyclart to have it repainted. They do awesome work, just a PITA. Actually, I am buying an airbrush later this year and will give it a try. Will my work be professional quality? Nope, but it will be mine.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I finally got everything dialed in. My LBS helped with the brakes, there was alot of paint in the way. It saw dirt for the first time early today on my local loop. The steering took some getting used to. I am very pleased with the ride quality and the quickness, it turns and stops on a dime. I am still looking for an XTR post and some bar ends. I took some pics before the ride, chances are it will never look this good again. Thanks everyone for the help and advise.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

That looks so much better than the first iteration! Nicely done.

They are really quick-feeling bikes aren't they!


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Whats up with the the amount of preload on those cams on the brakes. Seems the shop set it up in a way that will limit your braking modulation.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> Whats up with the the amount of preload on those cams on the brakes. Seems the shop set it up in a way that will limit your braking modulation.


I thought that too until I tried them. The levers are the reason. I am used to avid Elixers and Hope discs. I was very impressed with the rollercams. One finger is sufficient for stopping, 2 fingers will lock both wheels. They are much more progressive than I expected, not like my Hopes which are like an on/off switch. I think if I used an older set of levers the pre-load would be much less but I have to say I am very happy with how they perform right now.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Nice build and a fantastic paint job.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

What size frame is that and how tall are you?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> Whats up with the the amount of preload on those cams on the brakes. Seems the shop set it up in a way that will limit your braking modulation.


Preload on the cams?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rody said:


> Actually guys, not fork blades at all.
> 
> The stays used in the Brave bikes were a piece produced by Tange specifically for elevated chainstay use. The stay uses an oval top profile that tapers to a round terminus with a thicker wall and butting profile that allowed for more compliance from the center of the tube. The heavier terminus end enabled the piece to be brazed or tig'd to the dropout, providing plenty of material for either slotting or butting. The blades came straight and were hand bent to meet the requirements of the frame size.
> 
> ...


Sandman, are the stays on yours round or oval where they meet the seat tube? I had heard these were just off the shelf fork blades somewhere. They sure look it.

If it wasn't a fork blade it seems to have very similar dimensions? And hey, apparently it's suitable as an even longer (29er) fork blade now.. Either way, a heavy chainstay!


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Sandman, are the stays on yours round or oval where they meet the seat tube? I had heard these were just off the shelf fork blades somewhere. They sure look it.
> 
> If it wasn't a fork blade it seems to have very similar dimensions? And hey, apparently it's suitable as an even longer (29er) fork blade now.. Either way, a heavy chainstay!


It is oval. The preload on the brakes was easily sorted out just by using the barel adjusters on the levers. I threw my spd's on and rode the bike in the dirt today, made some minor adjustments and it is ready to go. The brakes got better as they bedded in during the ride. I am very pleased with the ride quality. It rides just like high end steel should ride. Lateral stiffness is better than I expected. The bike tracks nicely and it is much more nimble than my Ultra. Comparing it to my Ultra I would say ride quality is about the same. It climbs better than the Ritchey but the Ritchey is more stable coming down and it is stiffer in the BB area so it feels more efficient. It really shines on tight curvy singletrack, it is very "flickable" and it really plows through turns.

Oh and I am 5'10 190 pounds and the bike is 17.5 inches center to center. It is a little smaller than what I usually ride. I will see you guys at Keyesville in a week. You are all welcome to take her for a spin.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> It is oval. The preload on the brakes was easily sorted out just by using the barel adjusters on the levers


Is that like preload on a coil spring? 

JK, I think I know now what you're talking about, but you threw me a little by calling it preload.

An interesting thing about using roller cams and those particular levers is that you actually have two cams going at once. I always wondered how they would feel paired up.


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