# Will a 11 speed derailleur work with a 10 speed shifter?



## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

I've been having some shifting issues with my 11-40 ten speed cassette and my local bike shop said I should consider using an 11 speed derailleur - has anyone made this work?


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

What's your whole set up? What's your issues? An 11sp derailleur likely has different cable pull ratio. 

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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm running an IRD 11-40 10 speed cassette - a Shimano XTR M986 SGS 10 speed Derailleur - XTR 10 speed shifters - and an XTR 10 speed chain, and I'm having trouble shifting through the middle cogs to the lower cogs. I bought a derailleur hanger tool and straightened the hanger - but I'm still having some ghost shifting. The mechanic that is having trouble getting it dialed in said with the 40 tooth cog a new 11 speed derailleur will elimnate those problems. So I'm asking here if anyone knows if this is accurate before I buy an 11 speed derailleur.


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

About 4+ different threads and one very clear YouTube video says an 11 speed deralier and 11 speed shifter will work on a 10 speed cassette. Arts cyclery has a great article on what works shifter, deralier, and cassette wise. SRAM and Shimano all covered.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

HBSURFDAD said:


> About 4+ different threads and one very clear YouTube video says an 11 speed deralier and 11 speed shifter will work on a 10 speed cassette. Arts cyclery has a great article on what works shifter, deralier, and cassette wise. SRAM and Shimano all covered.


My search function kept kicking me over to an unauthorized page so I couldn't find them. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a great Labor Day deal for an 11 speed derailleur and wanted to make sure it would work with 10 speed shifters. I'll look on YouTube next. Thanks.......


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

You need the shifters as well. Go to the Arts site and it will all be clear.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

HBSURFDAD said:


> You need the shifters as well. Go to the Arts site and it will all be clear.


I was assured the LBS can make the derailleur work with my 10 speed shifters by adjusting the derailleur. I hope so - as I just ordered a Shimano XTR RD-M9000 rear Derailleur with the Labor Day deal pricing.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Nevermind

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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

Adim_X said:


> So the lbs is giving advice and gonna install and tune..but you are buying the derailleur online?


That's a valid question.

The local bike shop didn't have the derailleur in stock and told me which one to buy and they're going to put it on and dial it in - they sell me enough stuff they're not worrying about it and they do all the work I can't do. They get a lot of my money. :thumbsup:


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

Then take their advice and try it. If it fails you are only a cassette and shifter away from 11sp. 

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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Here's an 10 speed that works with the 11 speed RD, M8000. Similar to what you're looking for?


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

The "pulls" are different. Read the Arts Cyclery article on it, it will explain everything.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

mevnet said:


> Here's an 10 speed that works with the 11 speed RD, M8000. Similar to what you're looking for?


Thanks - that was an interesting video.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

HBSURFDAD said:


> The "pulls" are different. Read the Arts Cyclery article on it, it will explain everything.


From what I've read since I started this thread - the derailleur only moves the amount the shifter lets it - so if the derailleur is adjusted for the 10 speed shifter's upper and lower amount - the derailleur should work. If not - someone is going to get a hell of a deal on a 11 speed derailleur.


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

The attached will explain why you might be selling your deralier.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

From that I've been reading is that a Shimano 11sp RD will work with a Shimano 10sp shifter and vice versa.

With SRAM it's not the case. 11sp RD needs to go with a 11sp shifter. I tried a 11sp X1 RD with my 10sp X0 shifter and it did not work.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

It absolutely will work, and work quite well. Your 10 speed shifters are fine. the 10 speed and 11 speed derailleurs are interchangeable as far as the shifters go, the difference is that a 10 speed derailleur doesn't like a cassette cog much bigger than the 36t it was designed for, where the 11 speed derailleurs are designed for 40 and 42t cogs, and seem to be able to handle bigger. So your LBS was correct, and you should be very happy with the upgrade. I have been running a 10 speed XTR shifter with an 11sp M9000 GS XTR derailleur since the M9000 was first available, with a Wolftooth 42t cog. It has been flawless.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

HBSURFDAD said:


> Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility
> 
> The attached will explain why you might be selling your deralier.


This guy makes an 11 speed Shimano derailleur work with a 10 speed Shimano shifter:


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> It absolutely will work, and work quite well. Your 10 speed shifters are fine. the 10 speed and 11 speed derailleurs are interchangeable as far as the shifters go, the difference is that a 10 speed derailleur doesn't like a cassette cog much bigger than the 36t it was designed for, where the 11 speed derailleurs are designed for 40 and 42t cogs, and seem to be able to handle bigger. So your LBS was correct, and you should be very happy with the upgrade. I have been running a 10 speed XTR shifter with an 11sp M9000 GS XTR derailleur since the M9000 was first available, with a Wolftooth 42t cog. It has been flawless.


It's good to hear that you like the modification so much. I'm going to be very happy to have smooth shifting again. Thanks for the first-hand comformation


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

HBSURFDAD said:


> Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility
> 
> The attached will explain why you might be selling your deralier.


That Art's blog entry is not entirely accurate, I generally like their blog but I wish they would update that entry. It almost kept me from trying what turns out to be an excellent combination of parts, but I noticed that some of their numbers didn't add up so I took a risk and it paid off.


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

They were dead on on my SRAM stuff, I am building a Shimano 11 speed system as we speak.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

HBSURFDAD said:


> They were dead on on my SRAM stuff, I am building a Shimano 11 speed system as we speak.


They even note that some of their numbers for Shimano 11 speed mountain are arrived at by calculation, and real world experience has long since proven them inaccurate. It is a bit shameful for them to not have updated their post, since people seem to think it is the gospel. It has been known since early this year that the 11 speed derailleurs have the same ratio as 10 speed. I made this post about it myself.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> They even note that some of their numbers for Shimano 11 speed mountain are arrived at by calculation, and real world experience has long since proven them inaccurate. It is a bit shameful for them to not have updated their post, since people seem to think it is the gospel. It has been known since early this year that the 11 speed derailleurs have the same ratio as 10 speed. I made this post about it myself.


I wish I would of saw your thread last May. I asked Competitive Cyclist if the XTR RD-M9000 would work with a 10 speed cassette and shifters and was told the Shimano 11 speed stuff is not backward compatible with their 10 speed set ups - so I bought something else.


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## pedal-man (Aug 8, 2010)

I have used my XT 10 speed shifter with the new M8000 11 speed rear derailleur and it works flawlessly. My LBS was quite surprised as I have an extended cassette 40T as well. the shifter is what does all the pull ratios. The derailleur follows suit.

The short answer: IT WILL WORK


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

Cool! :thumbsup:

I'm getting my derailleur on Friday and hopefully I'll have smooth shifting through the entire range again. I'm surprised this improvement is still widely unknown. :skep:


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## HBSURFDAD (May 29, 2014)

Really stoked this will work for you. I am running an 11 speed XT shifter and deralier with a 10 speed cassette and it works great as well. When the cassette goes, pop on an 11 speed and the conversion is done.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

HBSURFDAD said:


> Really stoked this will work for you. I am running an 11 speed XT shifter and deralier with a 10 speed cassette and it works great as well. When the cassette goes, pop on an 11 speed and the conversion is done.


Thanks - I'm looking forward to trying it out.


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## Thiago7 (Jun 27, 2010)

I just installed an XTR M9000 RD
with a XTR 10 speed shifter and they work perfectly.
Very smooth shifting. 

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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

Thiago7 said:


> I just installed an XTR M9000 RD
> with a XTR 10 speed shifter and they work perfectly.
> Very smooth shifting.


:thumbsup:


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

I installed the RD-M9000 derailleur today and had the bike shop fine tune it and it shifts great. No more ghost shifting or hanging up between cogs. For everyone thinking about doing this modification it's well worth the trouble. :thumbsup:


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks guys! This means the XT 11s RD will work too, so I may as well buy that one for my non-bling build.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

satanas said:


> Thanks guys! This means the XT 11s RD will work too, so I may as well buy that one for my non-bling build.


Yes it will - that was what my LBS suggested would work - but I got such a great Labor Day deal on the XTR M-9000 I got that instead.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, sorry to beat this to death, but the dizzying scenarios of mixing and matching this stuff makes my head hurt. I have a praxis cassette and a 30t race face nw ring, I need a shifter and derailleur. Will a zee 10sp shifter work with an xt m8000 11sp derailleur? Just want to clarify before I buy the last two parts.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

masterofnone said:


> Ok, sorry to beat this to death, but the dizzying scenarios of mixing and matching this stuff makes my head hurt. I have a praxis cassette and a 30t race face nw ring, I need a shifter and derailleur. Will a zee 10sp shifter work with an xt m8000 11sp derailleur? Just want to clarify before I buy the last two parts.


My Shimano 11 speed XTR Derailleur works flawlessly with my Shinamo 10 speed XTR shifters - so your Zee 10 speed shifter SHOULD work with a XT 11 speed Derailleur. :thumbsup:


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

matuchi said:


> My Shimano 11 speed XTR Derailleur works flawlessly with my Shinamo 10 speed XTR shifters - so your Zee 10 speed shifter SHOULD work with a XT 11 speed Derailleur. :thumbsup:


Mucho gracias


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

If you go to the Sunrace 11-42 thread, it seems popular go run the 11 speed RD with a 10 speed shifter/cassette. My bike is in the shop now getting that exact setup. So I'll know by next week how the shifting is. 


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## Läskimasa (Jul 8, 2015)

HBSURFDAD said:


> The "pulls" are different. Read the Arts Cyclery article on it, it will explain everything.


There is incorrect information of Shimano 11-speed: the cassette pitch is 3.74 mm (not 3.9 mm) and the cable pull is not right too.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

My Shimano XTR 11 speed Derailleur has worked flawlessly with my Shimano XTR 10 speed shifters for four months now - so the answer is YES they will work - Sram components may have different results.


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## ReturnOfTheMTB (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi guys I have an xt 10 speed front chainring, a 10 speed chain and a 10 speed rear derailleur and 10 spd cassette. The xt 10 speed shifter broke so my friend will sell me an xtr 11 speed shifter cheap. Will this work? 

He also has an 11 speed cassette but will that cause other problems. I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible but I'm over budget on my upgrade by 2x.


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Post #11 has a link to what you're trying to do. 11 speed RDs work just fine on 10 speed drivetrains and are recommended if you want to go with an exteded range cassette



ReturnOfTheMTB said:


> Hi guys I have an xt 10 speed front chainring, a 10 speed chain and a 10 speed rear derailleur and 10 spd cassette. The xt 10 speed shifter broke so my friend will sell me an xtr 11 speed shifter cheap. Will this work?
> 
> He also has an 11 speed cassette but will that cause other problems. I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible but I'm over budget on my upgrade by 2x.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

mevnet said:


> Post #11 has a link to what you're trying to do. 11 speed RDs work just fine on 10 speed drivetrains and are recommended if you want to go with an exteded range cassette


But that's not what he asked at all.

No, the 11 spd shifter will not work right with a 10 spd cassette and RD. 10 and 11 spd cassettes are the same width, but the spacing between the shifts is different. The shifter determines the distance between the shifts. The RD is just a slave to the shifter.


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## ReturnOfTheMTB (Nov 4, 2014)

mevnet said:


> Post #11 has a link to what you're trying to do. 11 speed RDs work just fine on 10 speed drivetrains and are recommended if you want to go with an exteded range cassette


I have an XT clutch 10 speed rear derailleur and my 10 speed shifter broke.

Can an 11 speed XTR shifter work with a 10 speed RD and 10 speed cog or even macgyver a 9 speed (I have plenty of 9 speed shifters laying around collecting dust)


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## ReturnOfTheMTB (Nov 4, 2014)

92gli said:


> But that's not what he asked at all.
> 
> No, the 11 spd shifter will not work right with a 10 spd cassette and RD. 10 and 11 spd cassettes are the same width, but the spacing between the shifts is different. The shifter determines the distance between the shifts. The RD is just a slave to the shifter.


Thanks


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## mevnet (Oct 4, 2013)

Not enough coffee tends to do that to people...+1 for your advice, it won't work. RD follows the lead of the shifter, shifter and cassette have to match.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

ReturnOfTheMTB said:


> I have an XT clutch 10 speed rear derailleur and my 10 speed shifter broke.
> 
> Can an 11 speed XTR shifter work with a 10 speed RD and 10 speed cog or even macgyver a 9 speed (I have plenty of 9 speed shifters laying around collecting dust)


Nope


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

ReturnOfTheMTB said:


> Hi guys I have an xt 10 speed front chainring, a 10 speed chain and a 10 speed rear derailleur and 10 spd cassette. The xt 10 speed shifter broke so my friend will sell me an xtr 11 speed shifter cheap. Will this work?
> 
> He also has an 11 speed cassette but will that cause other problems. I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible but I'm over budget on my upgrade by 2x.


Take a look at this thread. I have not personally done it, but I am running Saint shifters with 11 speed derailleurs so it does make sense that it would work. In the link below Tonis_T on 8-25-2016 posted a link to his video with M8000 shifters and everything else 10 speed including cassette.

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-speed-upgrade-11sp-shifter-10sp-1021006.html


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## ReturnOfTheMTB (Nov 4, 2014)

92gli said:


> Nope


After much searching I think it may work

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...d-m9000-works-10-speed-drivetrain-947611.html


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

ReturnOfTheMTB said:


> After much searching I think it may work
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...d-m9000-works-10-speed-drivetrain-947611.html


Again? That's not what he's asking.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

matuchi said:


> I've been having some shifting issues with my 11-40 ten speed cassette and my local bike shop said I should consider using an 11 speed derailleur - has anyone made this work?


Depends on a lot more than what you have presented


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

If the width of the 11 speed cassette is the same as the 10 speed cassette....

Which is true for shimano.

Then the derailleur will have the span required

If the derailleur as the range required i.e. the number of teeth that change between low and high rear then the derailleur will work.

It is possible to have a derailleur that requires more movement of the shifter to get to the same position...pull ratio.

If all three match than the derailleur will work...

Seems like shimano maintained the pull ratio....so all is good.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

An 11s cassette is wider than a 10s, be it Shimano, Sram, Sunrace, etc...
But it's not simply by adding an extra gear, they reduce the space between gears and add the 11th one but in the end the 11s cassette is wider than the 10s cassette.
So using an 11s shifter with a 10s cassette will make the shifting sub par at the high gears or at the low gears.
Will this be noticeable, most probably yes, can you live with it, that's up to you.
In my opinion you would be better with getting a 10s shifter be it XT or Zee, the Zees are dirty cheaper this days.

My 0.02€.


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## Toot3344556 (Apr 25, 2016)

RS VR6 said:


> With SRAM it's not the case. 11sp RD needs to go with a 11sp shifter. I tried a 11sp X1 RD with my 10sp X0 shifter and it did not work.


Is this still true?

Trying a 11s Gx mech with a Xo 10s shifter.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Aglo said:


> An 11s cassette is wider than a 10s, be it Shimano, Sram, Sunrace, etc...
> But it's not simply by adding an extra gear, they reduce the space between gears and add the 11th one but in the end the 11s cassette is wider than the 10s cassette.
> So using an 11s shifter with a 10s cassette will make the shifting sub par at the high gears or at the low gears.
> Will this be noticeable, most probably yes, can you live with it, that's up to you.
> ...


No there is a thread on here that confirms Shimano 11s shifters work fine with 10s cassettes. Doing it myself: http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-speed-upgrade-11sp-shifter-10sp-1021006.html


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Works and works fine are 2 different things. The pull ratios are NOT the same, but there is more margin of error in 10s vs 11s. So it works.

But thats ONLY with shimano, Sram is different and not cross compatible, the rear derailluers are completely different between 10 and 11s

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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

RAKC Ind said:


> Works and works fine are 2 different things. The pull ratios are NOT the same, but there is more margin of error in 10s vs 11s. So it works.
> 
> But thats ONLY with shimano, Sram is different and not cross compatible, the rear derailluers are completely different between 10 and 11s
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


My 11s XT M8000 shifter and der shift smoother with my 10s non Shimano cassette than my deore 10s shifter and der ever did so there's that. One comment on the post regarding 11s cassettes explains why: "The extra cog is added on the back side of the cassette next to the spokes, and the placement of the other 10 cogs is identical to that on a 10sp cassette." Guys are having luck with mixing SRAM and Shimano parts also explained in that thread.


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