# My 19.7 lbs Kona Hei Hei Supreme finally done...



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Since there has been a couple of threads of new builds and someone asking to post their weight weenie build. I'd like to contribute my.

I first dreamed about building a Full Suspension bike about early 2007. The searched went on to find a low travel full suspension bike perfect for XC racing in Ontario, Canada. I thought about a Specialized Epic, then I thought about a Tuner Nitrous, BMC FS01, Litespeed Sewanee...

Then I saw Axis II's build and thought damn that is a nice bike.

I picked the frame August of 2007. Last 17" frame left in Canada.










Since August of 2007 I had been collecting parts. First was Avid Ultimate (brand new) off of ebay for $280 for the pair (160mm front, 140mm rear). Then I picked up some Crank Brothers 4Ti for about $180ish. I got them both from https://stores.ebay.com/Geargurl-Cycles-International_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm










Then a lot of the parts came from https://www.starbike.com/
The new shifters, new xtr rear derailleur, Tune headset and a whole bunch of road parts for my Cervelo










Next step was to decide on some wheels. In the back of my mind I always wanted blue chris king ISO disc hubs with some cool rims. Chris King... mmmMMMmmm really how could you beat Chris King... Answer is Tune. Ron Ruff over at https://whitemountainwheels.com/ had built me a road wheel set with Reynolds carbon rims, some tune hubs and some CX-Ray spokes. They were awesome.

So I placed my order for these... Blue Tune Hubs were a 8 month wait. I waited. I wouldn't budge on the color.




























Absolutely amazing wheels!

Next step is to get rid of all the steel bolts and go with either Ti or Aluminum bolts. I ordered everything from Tom at https://www.torontocycles.com/ I love his store. I also ordered some Ahima ARO-08 rotors (160mm and 140mm)


















Before Bolt tuning (OEM from Kona)









With Ti Bolts at all pivot locations, Aluminum washers, and a Ti nut to secure the bottom rear shock eyelet. 









I then found out Axis II's 18" was lighter than my 17" frame. Ouch that hurt. So I went and machined my seat clamp with a 1/4" end mill and put a Ti bolt on. I saved about 10 grams here.










One of the final purchase was a Manitou R7 MRD Disc only in black. Not available... 
So I tried to buy a red one... not available.
Then I tried to buy a Blue SID... only avaiable in world cup model. Not out for sale yet... 
Then I bought a Magura Durin disc only. Got shipped a Canti/Disc version. I didn't want it. 









I returned it because it wasn't the 1450g claimed and it was not Disc only. Then I found out that I couldn't get a disc only MD80R since Magura never imported that configuration into North America. Universal refunded my money.

I then tried to get a 2008 Fox F80RLC from my LBS. They placed my order to Outdoor Gears Canada. 1 week later they informed my LBS that there were no 2008s left. 2009s were another 3 weeks away to OGC (FOX Canada distrbutor). Of course you can't ship Fox products across boarders... I ordered a 2009 Fox F80RLC from Universal and shipped it to a package handling place in Niagara Falls, NY. drove from Toronto to Niagara Falls to smuggle a Fork past Canada Boarder/Customs as a 40 dollar used Ebay bicycle fork along with some Titec Pork Rinds and a whole bunch of park tools for assembling the bike.

What an ordeal... But the F80RLC is under the claimed weight of 1620g...

























Saddle and dura-ace 12-27 cassette came from https://probikekit.com/

Alligator i-Links came from Hong Kong Ebay! https://stores.ebay.com/HOT-BIKE-HOBBY_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm

All of my remaining parts came from Giovanni over at https://sales.light-bikes.com/
KCNC Ti Pro Lite, KCNC blue skewers, KCNC SC Bone 25.4mm, Syntace F99, Schwalbe Furious Fred 2.0, Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.1, KMC10-SL chain...























































A picture before the first ever ride on the bike. Note: No scratches!










Then I raced it through mud in a 24 hour relay race at night and had a crash or two... 2.1" Racing Ralphs are not good for mud. Good thing I didn't have the Furious Fred 2.0s on... some of the sections were hike a bike only. even walking was almost impossible. I'll get a picture of the bike muddy later.

Here it is after I washed her.









































































Build List:










Some thoughts:
1.) I really hate the Titec Pork Rinds. I know YMMV but damn... they throttle so bad. I installed them with the old hair spray trick but no luck. Next step is to get some spray on adhesive I think... Else I'm going to go try some ESI silicone grips. Or bite the bullet and go heavy and go with my fav, which are the Ergon grips.

2.) 610 mm for a bar is really wide. The KCNC SC Bone needs to be chopped down...

3.) I might need a setback seat post for this frame.

4.) I love the Furious Fred 2.0s... they are awesome.

5.) All the vendors that I bought parts from are excellent!


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## karlmalone1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Probably the sweetest post i've read in a long time. That bike is gorgeous, and at 19.7 pounds! :thumbsup: If you ever feel your bike is too light, rides too well, and looks too good, i'll shorely take it off your hands for you.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That is a nice build, I like the Kona ball burnished finish, I have a Kona A frame with that look. 

Details count, like the colour scheme. :thumbsup: But that IMBA decal is likely costing you 5-6gms.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

What a post!!
One of the best I've seen, the fact that your weightlist is the same as the real weight on the scale is amazing.
Congrats on a great bike and post, thanks for sharing.


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

awesome build. Love the attention to detail.


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## superlightracer (Feb 11, 2004)

Nice! 

I was at the same race, i dont think any tire would have adhered to that mud! I also changed my furious freds right before the race.


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## beetle21 (Feb 7, 2006)

Awesome post and bike.well done.Keep on riding


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## the rat (Jun 3, 2005)

Wow...superb. It seems like a weenie bike that you can actually ride/race on. Beautiful. 


PS
I too hate pork rinds, but each to their own....


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*Thats a fantastic build ...*

hope it feels as fast as it looks and good luck on the race circuit.

Pity about the Durin fork, I've just mounted mine and had first ride on it, I'll post details on the Durin thread soon.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Simply beautiful. Don´t like the blue cables though... But what a nice bike.. Congrats.


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## NJ-XC-Justin (Jan 1, 2006)

Very nice bike -- always liked these hei heis. Were you concerned about investing so much into a bike before knowing you'd like the way it rode? Or had you ridden a hei hei before? Also, is it bad form for me to ask a total cost?


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## sevencycle (Jun 25, 2008)

Awsome!! I have 22.5lb. Kona King.It was 21lb even but morphed to 22.5lb real world race bike. I have Ti bolts in all suspension mounts, 2.3 Conti Vertical tires. Your weights didnt include grease. Flyweight tubes are for weighing only.Whats up with the full housing rear derailuer (looks kinda goofy).Why not stans no tube. What is weight in race trim with real tubes and tires


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Excellent effort and a beautiful finish product. Very well thought out and executed! Hope it rides as good as it looks. Loved all the info you included in this post.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

sevencycle said:


> Awsome!! I have 22.5lb. Kona King.It was 21lb even but morphed to 22.5lb real world race bike. I have Ti bolts in all suspension mounts, 2.3 Conti Vertical tires. Your weights didnt include grease. Flyweight tubes are for weighing only.Whats up with the full housing rear derailuer (looks kinda goofy).Why not stans no tube. What is weight in race trim with real tubes and tires


19.7 lbs. I raced it using Furious Freds and flyweight tubes for a couple of laps already. It did fine, no flats. 19.7 lbs is what you see. The racing ralph 2.1 makes the bike over 19.7 lbs but that is what I used in the last laps of a race and I haven't switched them out.

The weight Includes:
zip ties
grease
air in tires
air in fork
air in the rear shock
bottle cage
stickers
loctite where needed
and if you are really being picky. I forgot to subtract the drain hole I drilled using a 7/16" drill bit at the bottom bracket.

the only thing not included in the weight is the garmin edge 705 and its accessories. I run tubes because I have only one set of nice wheels. That way I can carry 3 or 4 sets of tires, go scope out the race circuit, come back and make a decision on what tire I want to run. I don't want to mess around with goo or sealant in the parking lot 30 mins before a race start because I chose to run a furious fred tire or a racing ralph tire.

The rear derailleur housing is not run full length. I wish I could. I could only run the liner full length. It adds a bit of weight but I like the fact that there is only 1 entrance point now for dirt, that at where the cable exits to go to the rear derailleur.

verified weight = spreadsheet weight.

Thanks everyone for the comments. I was a bit nervous at first when I started assembling the bike. In the back of my head was: I hope this thing rides well. I bought the frame sight unseen and never test ridden. I just went with the Kona Geometry numbers and compared it to my 2005 Stumpjumper Hardtail. Total cost I think I'm about $4200 ish +/- maybe $200? MSRP on a full Kona Hei Hei Supreme build from Kona is like $6999 CDN... ouch.

superlightracer: I had some old school Panaracer FireXC Pro 1.8" in the trunk of my car. I should have ran those. Also what is the scoop on Alumni wanting to run the University Cup races this fall?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> and if you are really being picky. I forgot to subtract the drain hole I drilled using a 7/16" drill bit at the bottom bracket.


I'm guessing that might have been a 7/64" drain hole. 7/16" seems a bit large. :skep:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

rockyuphill said:


> I'm guessing that might have been a 7/64" drain hole. 7/16" seems a bit large. :skep:


sorry ! you are correct. Damn imperial system. Why can't we all use metric.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Although 7/16" would have removed more weight.


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## ThreeD (Feb 7, 2008)

*Beautiful Bike*

I agree with everyone here...that is one nice bike.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Gr8 Post! I don't like the blue cables, but they match the trim on the frame and fork, so good job..


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

VERY nice! WOW!


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

I like it and well done :thumbsup:


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## J.Mc. (Aug 24, 2007)

Exellent build and thanks for all the detailed info and great pics. One of the best post I've ever seen on this site. Beautiful bike


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## sevencycle (Jun 25, 2008)

Looks better than my Kona King !!!


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## bigfish (Nov 16, 2005)

Top Shelf!


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## jmoote (Aug 31, 2007)

Excellent build, everything tasteful and well thought out.

Based on your estimation of the price, the frameset price must have been fairly reasonable. Can you share that with me (a PM is fine if you'd rather not post it)? I have a pretty good relationship with a Kona dealer, and have been contemplating the Hei Hei 2-9 frame if I ever get around to building up a full suspension bike. The way Kona specs these bikes might be ok for meeting a certain pricepoint, but they aren't nearly as nice as you can make them with a little thought.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

jmoote said:


> Excellent build, everything tasteful and well thought out.
> 
> Based on your estimation of the price, the frameset price must have been fairly reasonable. Can you share that with me (a PM is fine if you'd rather not post it)? I have a pretty good relationship with a Kona dealer, and have been contemplating the Hei Hei 2-9 frame if I ever get around to building up a full suspension bike. The way Kona specs these bikes might be ok for meeting a certain pricepoint, but they aren't nearly as nice as you can make them with a little thought.


I paid 1500 tax in for the frame. SO without tax it was 1310 CDN... fork was 595 USD, wheels were 1000 USD,

The rough build cost I thnk was:
Frame $1300
Fork $595
Wheels $1000
Brakes $280
Eggbeater 4Ti $180
XTR Crankset $300
XTR Rear Derailleur $110
Tires $120
KCNC SC Bone $50 (I think)
KCNC Skewers $60 (I think)
Syntace Stem $80 (I think)
Seatpost $100
I-Link Cables $50
Dura-Ace Cassette $100
Selle Italia SLR Saddle $110
XTR Front derailleur $15 (Used ebay)
Brake rotors $30
Ti Bolts $100

so about 4555 I think (I'm also assuming 1 USD = 1 CDN). When the Canadian dollar could buy 1.20 USD I loaded up on parts from the states. November 2007 was one of the greatest months for Canadian shoppers!


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

Very nice build.....looks like one sweet FS WW bike.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Cheers!

Bravo, great build









Jake


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

That is an amazing build!! Very nice job!! Sweet looking bike!!! :thumbsup:

cheers


(P.S. - let's see those muddy pictures!!  )


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## TabascoJoe (Aug 22, 2007)

Awesome bike :thumbsup: especially the wheels 

How much space do you have between your spokes and your brake calipers?


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Looks awesome!

Makes me want to weight-weeenieize my enduro.


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## sevencycle (Jun 25, 2008)

Go Ti on frame hardware.Good weight savings seeing you have done every thing else.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

curious, 2.5" rear travel? Does that get you anything?


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

snowdrifter said:


> curious, 2.5" rear travel? Does that get you anything?


About 2.5" more than a hardtail, I would surmise :thumbsup:


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Looks like the Albion Hills parking lot?? Nicely put together!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

sevencycle said:


> Go Ti on frame hardware.Good weight savings seeing you have done every thing else.


It has already been done. The only steel bolts left is the XTR RD-M972-GS pivot bolt and pinch bolt. The pinch bolt is already hollowed out by Shimano. The pivot bolt is quite special, and looks like it's a Shimano specially designed bolt.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

nspace said:


> Looks like the Albion Hills parking lot?? Nicely put together!


Good eye!
:thumbsup:

I think that picture was taken the Wednesday before the 24 hour summer solstice relay race.


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## beatnik_ (Jul 3, 2008)

That build deserves a better frameset, but it´s nice.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Nice write-up. Lots of good info there.


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## KonaKen (May 6, 2007)

total cost?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

KonaKen said:


> total cost?


about 13 to 14 threads above


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## ettore (Nov 13, 2004)

I am guessing your crashes came somewhere around 11:00am - 2:30am at Chico's Summer Solstice? Just a guess. AWESOME bike, seriously ... so awesome.


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## sbmtbmatic (Apr 15, 2005)

this is ridiculous! what a beautiful post and bike - nice job! i now want a kona. thank you for saying what it cost as i was wondering. this is the best post with all the pics and such details. incredible weight for a full susp. bike!


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## doctorthirst (Apr 24, 2008)

Amazing bike. Amazing post. Thanks for that!


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## MichielSnijders (Jan 7, 2008)

Amazing, what a superb build. Very lightweight too. The colors match very good. 


It looks like a twin brother :thumbsup:. We both have a Kona HeiHei with blue Tune hubs and semislicks.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

Why are these bikes not more popular? I think this thread along with a little research has led me to the fact that I NEED this frame!


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## JakeB. (Jul 22, 2008)

Man, that is one sexy bike... nicely done.

<--------- jealous.


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## Patriot222 (Dec 16, 2007)

Sweetest build I've seen posted yet and fantastic pics. Nicely done!


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## beatnik_ (Jul 3, 2008)

A little bit optimistic, i think it weights a couple of lb more


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Paging Cheers!

So, what's the low down on the bike, does it float to the top of mtn top podiums?


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Control Tec Bolt On's?*

First I want to say your bike is amazing!

I was reading over your build list and weights and see you have Control Tec Bolt On's listed as your skewers (quick - releases).
But I notice that in your pic's and ion the thread your using KCNC.. those are around 10grams or so heavier, maybe 20. Did those not get put on for the original weigh in?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Thanks to everyone with the kind comments.

As to how the bike rides. It rides like a dream. I don't mind the small-ish rear travel (2.5"), since I'm used to riding a hardtail. The trails I ride on are pretty tame compared to some of the north shore BC terrain you guys might see out west or elsewhere for that matter. I find that I like the rear shock set firmer. I'm up to around 175 to 180 psig on the Fox RP23 for this bike, and I use the pro-pedal setting #3 quite a bit. Even still I'm not used to the slight frame flex / bob when you stand on the pedals for a quick sprint. I guess no full suspension bike will have the same stiffness and pure power transfer as a hardtail.

With that said ever since I built this bike I have only taken my hardtail out on very few occasions, mainly a wet rainy day is when I'll bring the hard tail out.

The bike did gain some weight. It is hard not to. There were some bits that I changed, these were bits that just bothered me on every single ride.

The first thing to go was the control tech ti-bolt ons. I had those on originally, and I had spec'd them on the build sheet. Having to break out an allen key to load, and unload my bike from the trunk of my car got tiresome very quickly.

I actually lost 1.5 g by using KCNC QRs... Plus you can't buy blue control tech ti bolts anymore, atleast not ever since some Taiwanese company bought control tech's name.



















Next up for change was the grips. Titec Pork Rinds are light. But the stiff foam and the constant throttling (eventually fixed with 3M aerosol glue spray) sucked. My hardtail I was using Ergon GP1s. I wanted those back, but couldn't come to having grips that weighed more than my handle bar, so I tried some ESI foam grips.

I gained about 29 grams here...










Next up to ditch was the bottle cages. The original ones I had were Karbona Wing from Toronto Cycles. Claimed weight on these were 17 grams. My came in at 16 grams. Problem is they won't hold a bottle securely enough for mountain bike. I have used them for my road bike and they were fine there. I replaced the stupid bottle cage for a King Cage Ti, and I must say one of the nicest cages I've ever used.



















So you would think this bike is perfect... but I'm having a bit of a problem. The Selle Italia SLR saddle. Thing is I have used this same saddle (different color) on my other hardtail with an older 2005 RaceFace Next post without any issues. I'm wondering if the KCNC Ti Pro Lite may not support the saddle rails adquately? I'm not sure... I'm also not sure what to do about this problem. Whether I just replace the current saddle with a new one of hte exact same... buy a different saddle with stronger rails, or a different seatpost and a brand new saddle... (and yes if you were wondering, I did install the seat post clamps at the proper torque of 4NM).


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## Patriot222 (Dec 16, 2007)

That must have been a bit aggrevating to see your saddle rails in that condition. 

The only thing that I can think of would be to place the clamp down rails slightly closer to the "U" One one is back is furthest behind the "U" but the front one could be brought inboard a couple of mm's also.

If that doesn't work, then pick up on with carbon rails. I'm running the kcnc with their 95g carbon, (104g actual) and haven't had any issues.


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## RockStarRacing (Dec 30, 2006)

Next up for change was the grips. Titec Pork Rinds are light. But the stiff foam and the constant throttling (eventually fixed with 3M aerosol glue spray) sucked. My hardtail I was using Ergon GP1s. I wanted those back, but couldn't come to having grips that weighed more than my handle bar, so I tried some ESI foam grips.

I gained about 29 grams here... 

how did you find the ESI grips against your GX1 ergons?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

The GX1 are probably the most comfortable out of the grips I tried on this bike. The grips I tried were:

Ergon GX1
ESI silicone Race thin
ESI silicone Chunky
Titec Pork Rinds
Road Bar tape (with strips to build diameter)

In the end I chose the ESI chunky. I found the race thin a bit too thin, not in terms of comfort, but it makes for a skinny grip which felt odd. The chunky was adequate to dampen and soften out the ride and balances out the between heavy and light of weight weenie thoughts. The pork rinds I can't deal with... 

With that said I do think the GX1 are better than the old WP1 from Ergon which I had before on a previous bike. The smaller size of the GX1 was a lot better when you had to grab brake during a bumpy decent.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Joining the party late, but damn, that's pure bike porn.


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

Nice post. I especially like that you were honest with the problems you had too. More posts like this please.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Cheers, I had the same problem with the KCNC post and the SLR saddle. The seat would slip if not tight enough. It kept slipping even at tight bolts. Rails finally broke on a ride.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

rensho said:


> Cheers, I had the same problem with the KCNC post and the SLR saddle. The seat would slip if not tight enough. It kept slipping even at tight bolts. Rails finally broke on a ride.


So what would your recommendation be? Maybe to go with a Thomson Masterpiece as a substitute or is the KCNC okay with other saddles?

I'm hunting for a new 30.9 x 350mm post for my new JET 9 and am looking at a Masterpiece or a KCNC. I'll be running a WTB Rocket V SLT Ti Saddle. I've been running that saddle on a Thomson Masterpiece with no problems to date, but my new frame takes a different size post so I am shopping...

BB


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> So what would your recommendation be? Maybe to go with a Thomson Masterpiece as a substitute or is the KCNC okay with other saddles?
> 
> I'm hunting for a new 30.9 x 350mm post for my new JET 9 and am looking at a Masterpiece or a KCNC. I'll be running a WTB Rocket V SLT Ti Saddle. I've been running that saddle on a Thomson Masterpiece with no problems to date, but my new frame takes a different size post so I am shopping...
> 
> BB


Hey Bruce.
How about a shim for the masterpiece you already have? There don't add much weight..7-8 grams? 
Yeah, I am stalking you about the Jet build. :eekster:

G


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

G-Live said:


> Hey Bruce.
> How about a shim for the masterpiece you already have? There don't add much weight..7-8 grams?
> Yeah, I am stalking you about the Jet build. :eekster:
> 
> G


Can't go the shim direction because the post diameter on the Sugar is 31.6 and it is 30.9 on the JET 9.

BB


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Can't go the shim direction because the post diameter on the Sugar is 31.6 and it is 30.9 on the JET 9.
> 
> BB


That's right. I forgot that the sugars were 31.6:nono:

Then I can't recommend anything because I have not used anything lighter than my Bontrager ACC RXLite..about 240 grams


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> So what would your recommendation be? Maybe to go with a Thomson Masterpiece as a substitute or is the KCNC okay with other saddles?
> 
> I'm hunting for a new 30.9 x 350mm post for my new JET 9 and am looking at a Masterpiece or a KCNC. I'll be running a WTB Rocket V SLT Ti Saddle. I've been running that saddle on a Thomson Masterpiece with no problems to date, but my new frame takes a different size post so I am shopping...
> 
> BB


In the end I went with a USE Alien 27.2 Carbon with the cyclops clamp, and a SLR Kit Carbonio. I'll get you guys a picture when I get home from the office later today. I went with the USE because in the end I felt I needed a tiny bit of cockpit length and my legs felt like they were too far forward. The USE Alien gives a tiny bit of set back. It is probably not the lighest setup.

Off the top of my head, I think the USE Carbon w/ the 8.8mm cyclops clamp came in at 178g? and the SLR Kit Carbonio (2009) was 139g (claimed was 125g). A standard SLR w/ Ti rails is claimed at 135g and they usualy weigh 142g to 145g.

Since we are talking about that saddle, I think it was the biggest waste of money I have ever spent on a bike part. It is not any lighter, but in fact heavier than some of the standard SLR saddles with Ti rails... Lesson learned.

For others who have hte KCNC, one possible modification is to buy the Thomsom clamp. The clamp is available seperate. Surf around and the prices range from 19.99 to 49.99 USD. So you buy the Thomson clamp, then use the base plate w/ your KCNC post, reuse the two upper yokes of the KCNC post and the Ti bolts. The problem with the KCNC post's base plate is that it doesn't extend enough fore and aft to better support the rails.

If you are looking at a new post (non set back), I would seriouly consider the Thomson Masterpeice (ebay seems to have good pricing on them), then you can upgrade the barrel nuts and bolts to Ti from http://torontocycles.com/Selling/Titanium.html

The cycle king post that someone here posted about seems to solve some of the issues of the KCNC Ti Pro Lite, as the baseplate is carbon, but it has tabs molded in to extend the clamping surface fore and aft to better support the rails.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> So what would your recommendation be? Maybe to go with a Thomson Masterpiece as a substitute or is the KCNC okay with other saddles?
> 
> I'm hunting for a new 30.9 x 350mm post for my new JET 9 and am looking at a Masterpiece or a KCNC. I'll be running a WTB Rocket V SLT Ti Saddle. I've been running that saddle on a Thomson Masterpiece with no problems to date, but my new frame takes a different size post so I am shopping...
> 
> BB


I bought a Masterpiece and just ride. What others have done is to take a Thomson lower support and use that on the KCNC. That works well too.
If you put Ti bolts on the Masterpiece, it gets pretty light.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Very nice build. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how it's only 19.7 though. Even with a fair amount of light stuff on mine, along with heavier pedals and brakes possibly... mine should come in at only 21.15 tomorrow when I weigh in with the new tires/packing tape for rim strips. I know I can shed about 113g with a pedal change which I won't do. That still only puts me to 20.90. Still leaves 1.2 lbs (just over 544g) more weight to lose to be 19.7. I don't know what my old Formula Evoluzione brakes weigh, but doubt there's more than what... maybe 150g to lose there with calipers/levers/etc? I just keep looking at that list of parts weights and scratching my head, lol.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

IAmtnbikr said:


> Very nice build. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how it's only 19.7 though. Even with a fair amount of light stuff on mine, along with heavier pedals and brakes possibly... mine should come in at only 21.15 tomorrow when I weigh in with the new tires/packing tape for rim strips. I know I can shed about 113g with a pedal change which I won't do. That still only puts me to 20.90. Still leaves 1.2 lbs (just over 544g) more weight to lose to be 19.7. I don't know what my old Formula Evoluzione brakes weigh, but doubt there's more than what... maybe 150g to lose there with calipers/levers/etc? I just keep looking at that list of parts weights and scratching my head, lol.


I thought Formula Evoluzione brakes were DH brakes...

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc...zione-9-5-open-system/PRD_357891_1507crx.aspx

According to above it weighs 450g each. So 900g in braking hardware. Compare that with Avid Juicy Ultimates (full bolt tuning + Ashima ARO-08 160mm and 140mm rotors) that weigh 310g front and 272g rear. That is a delta of 318g (which is about 30% lighter or 0.7 lbs).

Have you fully tuned all the bolts on your frame? The pivot bolts can all be replaced with titanium bolts.

Lastly you should know, I think your bike is beautiful. The color coordination, the selection of parts is very well done. Only the brakes seem to be a bit over weight.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Ok here were the old parts (I took these pictures when the parts were brand new)



















Here are the replacement parts. Notice that the fancy SLR Kit Carbonio is not much lighter and about 100 bucks more expensive! DO NOT BUY THIS SADDLE, it was too late for me to return it, luckily I used up every single coupon and discount code I had at probikekit.com to buy the saddle.




























and dont' forget the USE Alien requires different clamps for different saddles, something I did not realize until I tried to assemble everything together. Again more money down the drain for a new clamp. If anyone needs a new clamp the cheapest place for the USE cyclops clamps is here: https://ibexsports.com/

grrr


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> I thought Formula Evoluzione brakes were DH brakes...
> 
> http://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc...zione-9-5-open-system/PRD_357891_1507crx.aspx
> 
> ...


I should've weighed the brakes when I did the build. I didn't think they were THAT heavy, wow! They're not really DH brakes to my understanding. They're not the 9.5's but the smaller lever piston version before those came out. They were from back in '99/'00, and they came over from my old '99 XtC DS1 bike, along with the hubs, handlebar, shift pods, and pedals. I have steel bolts yet for the pivots, the brake lever clamps and the lever pivots, the derailleurs, and the shock mounts. Have ti in for the stem, rotors, calipers, and the shift pod mounts since they were laying around anyhow. Would probably consider aluminum for those, and all but the shock mounts plus maybe the actual brake lever pivot bolts. Those would be ti. Wonder what the new R1 Formula's would drop off mine for weight? Probably a lot! And I love the look of yours with the blue components; very nice!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

rensho said:


> I bought a Masterpiece and just ride. What others have done is to take a Thomson lower support and use that on the KCNC. That works well too.
> If you put Ti bolts on the Masterpiece, it gets pretty light.


Thanks Rensho and Cheers. I picked up a 30.9 Masterpiece today.

BB


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> Thanks Rensho and Cheers. I picked up a 30.9 Masterpiece today.
> 
> BB


Good luck. That is a beautiful seatpost.

If you want to shed a bit of weight w/ some Ti hardware go here:
http://torontocycles.com/Selling/Titanium.html

I've ordered all my bolts I've ever used for bicycles from Tom.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> I thought Formula Evoluzione brakes were DH brakes...
> 
> http://www.mtbr.com/cat/brakes/disc...zione-9-5-open-system/PRD_357891_1507crx.aspx
> 
> ...


Well, I kept my mouth shut as I had a bid snipe going on eBay, lol. Now I can spill the beans. The R1's would be nice... but they are more than expensive for what they are I feel. I bought a set of Marta SL's with the carbon fiber levers.  Got them for less than $300 shipped from a women's pro-level racer in NV (Timari Pruis) and they're like new. They were maintained by the Magura mechanics for her. I also got another 160mm Alligator rotor for the back as I now have a 140mm on there for the Evo's. So, I can take the Evo's off and put them on the old XtC DS1 and sell that bike darned near complete if someone wants a nice deal!  I'd think that I should lose a pretty good amount of weight with the Magura's. Everyone I know that's used the SL's has been pleased with them thus far as long as they've taken the time to properly bleed the system. I may need to shorten the front hose, but I'll wait and see...


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

cmh said:


> Joining the party late, but damn, that's pure bike porn.


I couldn't have said it better myself.



Thomas Anderson said:


> Nice post. I especially like that you were honest with the problems you had too. More posts like this please.


Yes, the honesty was very much appreciated. I also enjoyed the attention to detail. I'm sure I'll refer to this thread again.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> For others who have hte KCNC, one possible modification is to buy the Thomsom clamp. The clamp is available seperate. Surf around and the prices range from 19.99 to 49.99 USD. So you buy the Thomson clamp, then use the base plate w/ your KCNC post, reuse the two upper yokes of the KCNC post and the Ti bolts. The problem with the KCNC post's base plate is that it doesn't extend enough fore and aft to better support the rails.


Sounds like and odd idea, since the barrel AFAIK is about the same weight as one from Masterpiece and the weight savings is in the clamp. Masterpiece does not have gaudy lettering, and at $110 on Ebay that I recently paid is not more expensive then KCNC plus Masterpiece clamp.



Cheers! said:


> If you are looking at a new post (non set back), I would seriouly consider the Thomson Masterpeice (ebay seems to have good pricing on them), then you can upgrade the barrel nuts and bolts to Ti from http://torontocycles.com/Selling/Titanium.html


Can't go wrong with Thomson. Hopefully those ti bolts do not have the same problem as the previous genertion of KCNC (with M5). I only used barrels.


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## Kris (Jun 15, 2004)

The USA distributor for Selle Italia will replace Ti rails for a fee. They put new rails in an old Flite of mine for something like 20 bucks, did a great job too.

Sweet bike BTW.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

what kind of chain is that? im sorry if you already said that


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> what kind of chain is that? im sorry if you already said that


Shop around, you should not be paying anymore than 60 USD for the gold versions. Vendors like to think the "gold" version is better (it is just Titanium Nitride coating, which does nothing to increase surface hardness or wear or anything) is actually the same price as the "silver" version from the distributor.


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## Megaclocker (Sep 28, 2005)

I guess I got lucky with my regular SLR ti. 136gr


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Shop around, you should not be paying anymore than 60 USD for the gold versions. Vendors like to think the "gold" version is better (it is just Titanium Nitride coating, which does nothing to increase surface hardness or wear or anything) is actually the same price as the "silver" version from the distributor.


Titanium-nitride coatings are supposed to prolong the life of drill bits, are you sure it doesn't help extend the wear life of these KMCs? 

BTW do you ever find the 10-speed version misbehaves on your 9sp drivetrain (e.g. skating on top of the middle chainring teeth, or jamming between rings)? I see 10sp is a bit lighter, and I'm about due for a new chain here, so I was thinking to try one of the KMC SLs myself.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

mechBgon said:


> Titanium-nitride coatings are supposed to prolong the life of drill bits, are you sure it doesn't help extend the wear life of these KMCs?


Of all chains I have thrown away, it was due to stretch or breakage, not abrasion. I doubt Ti coating does much to prevent that.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

ah, i found the chain, no worries, thanks anyway


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Curmy said:


> Of all chains I have thrown away, it was due to stretch or breakage, not abrasion. I doubt Ti coating does much to prevent that.


Chain stretch occurs partly because the rollers and plates wear down as they pivot against eachother, so it seems logical that a titanium-nitride coating could slow that wearing. I guess it's a case of no harm, no foul if the TiN-coated model is the same price... I'll pick one up and see how things go


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

mechBgon said:


> Titanium-nitride coatings are supposed to prolong the life of drill bits, are you sure it doesn't help extend the wear life of these KMCs?
> 
> BTW do you ever find the 10-speed version misbehaves on your 9sp drivetrain (e.g. skating on top of the middle chainring teeth, or jamming between rings)? I see 10sp is a bit lighter, and I'm about due for a new chain here, so I was thinking to try one of the KMC SLs myself.


Nope. Works fine. The Ti-N coating in the middle of the chain (rollers) all wore off after a race in the rain/mud (only 2 laps!).


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Nope. Works fine. The Ti-N coating in the middle of the chain (rollers) all wore off after a race in the rain/mud (only 2 laps!).


Thanks for the info on both questions


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

mechBgon said:


> Titanium-nitride coatings are supposed to prolong the life of drill bits, are you sure it doesn't help extend the wear life of these KMCs?


I've got the unused section of a gold 9SL -- never been on a bike, and on the inside of the outer plates, there's no TiNi coating. That would be, I would think, where it would actually have a chance of doing anything.

As for the rest of the chain that's on the bike, yeah, it doesn't last that long at all.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

I've got approximately 300 miles on the KMC (gold) X10 SL and it's still shifting flawlessly..
I'm also running the silver X10 SL and it too is holding up quite nicely..

223 grams with 111 links (-5)








~Jake


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

cmh said:


> I've got the unused section of a gold 9SL -- never been on a bike, and on the inside of the outer plates, there's no TiNi coating. That would be, I would think, where it would actually have a chance of doing anything.
> 
> As for the rest of the chain that's on the bike, yeah, it doesn't last that long at all.


?? The gold colored finish is a result of Titanium nitriding.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

In case anyone here wishes to "bolt tune" their frame. Here is the list of bolts I used. I purchased them all from https://torontocycles.com/

Note: My frame is a 2007. I'm uncertain if there are any changes to previous and subsequent model years. So you mileage may vary.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

which of those bolts did you use form the shifter to handlebar?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> which of those bolts did you use form the shifter to handlebar?


Which part are you specifically asking for?


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## FueLEX8 (May 24, 2008)

sweet looking bike!

how is she behaving?


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Jake Pay said:


> I've got approximately 300 miles on the KMC (gold) X10 SL and it's still shifting flawlessly..
> I'm also running the silver X10 SL and it too is holding up quite nicely..
> 
> 223 grams with 111 links (-5)


How is your's so light?

I just got mine out of the box and it's 240g at 112 links.......:sad:

I'm wondering if the guy scammed me and threw in a 9 speed instead. :madmax:

The box says X10SL gold and it also says 240g on the box, but I thought that was for 116 links. When I counted the links there were only 112 incl. missing link.

I'm assuming the chain widths are different? Anyone know them off hand?


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

will an m5x15 aluminum bolt work instead of the m5x14?? im kinda new at this bolt size stuff.
thanks cheers,
jordan


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## dom1n1k (Jun 21, 2008)

Perfect


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Nice bike! A blue Tune Speedneedle would be nice on that too!


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Your bike is SICK and I love the build thread. I wish I knew I was building a WW bike when I put mine together, I would have chronicled the build like this. I would have needed to go out and buy scales though. SWEET bike!


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## t69 (Aug 4, 2009)

Hello,

Sorry for my bad English... I normally speak French and German.

@ Cheers!

Congratulation, great setup... love your bike. Thanks for the pictures, for this thread.

I also have a Kona 2007 - Hei Hei Supreme - and I love my bike.

Did you know that Hei Hei ist meaning "Race" in Hawaiian 



> Voila my setup:
> 
> Frame: Kona Scandium Race Butted 64mm
> Float: Fox Float RP23
> ...


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Anyone have a clue where i can get a hei hei frame.. did searches.. only finding complete bikes...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

For frame only Konas they are special order via a Local Bike Store. If you know what you want, just keep on calling around until you find one that is willing to give you a deal. Don't settle for MSRP. It is a guaranteed sale on the bike stores point of view since you usually need to pay in full before they will place the order. They assume no risk (buying bike and it sits on the floor, or pay for consignment). Takes no floor space. Takes only a 15 min phone conversation at most. A second phone call to tell you it is in.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

If you live in Vancouver, sometimes they show up the same day.


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## rob.char (Oct 5, 2008)

Makes me want to chrome out my hardtail, build looks pretty darn sick, I'm truly jealous.


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## mrfva (Aug 31, 2009)

AWESOME build-out! Love the bike!

I noticed that you picked up the 17" frame. Out of curiosity what are your specs (height, inseam)? I'm looking to build out the same frame, but can't decide between the 16" or 18" frame. I'm 5-8"-9" with a ~30" inseam.

Looking at the geometry sizing for the 2008 frame, the 16" had a 32.2" standover vs. the 18" frame with a 31.1". I expected the 16" frame to have a lower standover height, unless this is a typo from Kona.

Thanks in advance,
Frank


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Thanks for the compliments Frank.

I would assume standover height difference is a typo. You could try emailing Kona to get clarification.

I'm about 5'8" with a 30 inch inseem as well. The 17 fits on the smaller side. I'm not sure tall your torso is, but I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of "can I fit a smaller bike" 

I have the saddle also on the very nose. meaning it is as far back as it can go, and I'm a straight post and not a setback one. I should really be using a post with a slight setback. I also use a 105mm long stem.

My advice would be go with a 18" frame if you are close to my height. Unless you have really short arms and upper body, the 16" will be very small of a bike. 

Standover height is plenty on this bike so I would not worry about that.

As an update. I recently ruined the rear rim on this bike. The sun ringle EQ21 rim in my experience of two years of racing with it, is that the aluminum alloy they have made the rim from must be on teh softer side. I've dinged the front rim bad enough that it had to be replaced. I now have ruined the rear rim when I had the bike leaned over on a very fast corner and it got caught between two rocks mid corners and jolted the bike at speed. The rim has no scratches or hints it was touch at all. Just scuff marks on both sides of the tire on the same spot. I'm assuming the high corner forces with the bike leaned over twisted the rim and bent it out of true. There is no way to true out the huge wobble in the rim.

I'm replacing the rear rim with a Notubes Crest 32 hole rim with new spokes. The front EQ21 rim I'll ride it until it gets beyond repair.


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## mrfva (Aug 31, 2009)

Cheers! said:


> Thanks for the compliments Frank.
> I would assume standover height difference is a typo. You could try emailing Kona to get clarification.


So I finally got a hold of Kona, and I asked them about the standover height difference on the 16" (32.2") vs. 18" (31.1") --- and it is indeed correct. The 16" frame has a straight bar while the 18" has a curved bar.



Cheers! said:


> Thanks for the compliments Frank.
> I'm about 5'8" with a 30 inch inseem as well. The 17 fits on the smaller side. I'm not sure tall your torso is, but I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of "can I fit a smaller bike"
> ...
> My advice would be go with a 18" frame if you are close to my height. Unless you have really short arms and upper body, the 16" will be very small of a bike.


You are correct. Thanks for the reaffirmation, I will be ordering the 18" frame. So begins my extended build out process. :thumbsup:


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

As a tribute to this great thread, I'm bringing it back from the dead with my Orange Hei Hei Supreme with Ti bolts. This is more like 22.5 lbs, in a large, but still a nice riding bike. I bought this one from Chris "Sneddly" Sneddon. He races Pro for Kona. I built this up a few months ago, but finally decided it was time to post. I first saw this thread a year ago.
Seat tube - 20" c-t-t
Top tube - 23.5 effectively


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks for bringing this back from the dead. I must have missed it before. Nice ride!


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