# Full Suspension bearings



## DYORD (Mar 11, 2021)

Is it really necessary to replace linkage bearings with "ENDURO" bearings? or ordinary sealed bearings would do? I noticed that ENDURO bearings have more ball rollers and doesn't have the bearing guide. 

What could possibly happen if I just installed an ordinary fewer ball rollers?


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

Plenty of threads on this if you search.









Where to buy bearings with superior durability?


Many posts talk about SKF bearings and others that are possibly more durable than the generic bearings that come with bottom brackets and hubs. Anyone know of online sources for such bearings? I found a UK supplier of SKF bearings that will ship to the US, but am interested in some other...




www.mtbr.com





Sent from my brain using my hand.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Just make sure whatever bearing you get is relatively high quality helps. Also a good idea to pop off the seals and make sure reach side of the bearing is fully filled with waterproof grease. 

Most bearings are just machine bearings and come lightly grease for machine use up to thousands of rpm. Hence the need to regrease if you want them to last a reasonable amount of time.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

I think it would only be necessary if the bearings are causing significant stiction. I live in the arid southwest and only replaced my frame bearings once. It was 2014 Specialized Enduro with about 5,000 strava miles on it.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

DYORD said:


> Is it really necessary to replace linkage bearings with "ENDURO" bearings? or ordinary sealed bearings would do? I noticed that ENDURO bearings have more ball rollers and doesn't have the bearing guide.
> 
> What could possibly happen if I just installed an ordinary fewer ball rollers?


Enduro is just a brand. what you want is any high quality brand of *full complement bearing. *Using a standard bearing with carriers is just asking for trouble in a suspension pivot. Less durability, rigidity, etc.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

I was looking for what bearings to replace my stock ones with and was having a hard time finding out what quality brand full compliment/max bearings are out there or even where to buy them…other than Enduro.….at least here in the states. Found the Enduro brand and then there was an Enduro ABI that Jenson has in stock. Looked on Amazon and found some max bearings from Fushibearing. 
So I bought a set of Enduro black oxides….figured they gotta be better than the standard bearings that came stock and am willing to give them a try. I don’t know how they’ll be until I try them but I’m going to be checking the bearings after every season the very least anyway. Plus I have pullers and bearing presses…so not a big deal if I have to change them out. I picked up a few of the Amazon ones just to check out. One thing I noticed between them and the Enduro’s is that the Amazon ones have a bit of lateral play on the inner race when you push on it. I don’t think they’ll be going in…but will keep them as backup/emergency bearings lol.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

You likely will not find all the pivot bearings that you're looking for. But go for it.

I'm interested to see how many major bearing manufactured, Full Compliment bearings that you'll find that will fulfil your need.


N54tt said:


> Looked on Amazon and found some max bearings from Fushibearing.


Max bearings are Enduro's suspension/pivot branded bearings.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> You likely will not find all the pivot bearings that you're looking for. But go for it.
> 
> I'm interested to see how many major bearing manufactured, Full Compliment bearings that you'll find that will fulfil your need.


Not sure what you’re trying to say. I don’t have a need to have a vast amount of bearing brands and wasn’t looking for all the pivot bearings out there. It’s been mentioned to look for any quality brand max bearing. And then some say Enduro isn’t quality. I was just saying my search for “quality” brand pivot bearings, other than Enduro branded ones, came up short. I wasn’t necessarily setting out to find out how many major full compliment bearings are out there…just what other quality pivot bearings I can buy here in the states…other than Enduro branded ones.




Cleared2land said:


> Max bearings are Enduro's suspension/pivot branded bearings.


Yes, and the Amazon ones I found were the Fushibearing suspension/pivot branded bearings. Ive never heard of them before but doubt they’re a quality brand.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

N54tt said:


> Not sure what you’re trying to say. I don’t have a need to have a vast amount of bearing brands and wasn’t looking for all the pivot bearings out there. It’s been mentioned to look for any quality brand max bearing. And then some say Enduro isn’t quality. I was just saying my search for “quality” brand pivot bearings, other than Enduro branded ones, came up short. I wasn’t necessarily setting out to find out how many major full compliment bearings are out there…just what other quality pivot bearings I can buy here in the states…other than Enduro branded ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


qualitybearingsonline.com sells...well, quality bearings. Several of the "real" quality bearing companies, like NTN, SKF, F.A.G., etc. Not to say that Enduro isn't "real", but they are moderate quality that have the word "enduro", so you think they must be good or something. They started with fairly low quality bearings making replacement bearings for a few mtb applications and have expanded somewhat, but they are heavy on the hype and mountain biking isn't doing anything that industrial applications haven't been doing for decades, hell more than a century at this point, so if you really want to go to the source, you go to a bearing supplier that sells from all of the reputable bearing companies. As an example, a bottom bracket isn't really a "thing" IMO, it's a tube that has two bearings. It's about as basic of a component as possible, which means it relies almost 100% on the bearing, as in, what grade of bearing was used. What company, race face, FSA, SRAM, shimano, etc., doesn't matter. What matters is that bearing. If the BB bearing goes bad, you don't replace the BB, you replace the bearing. Go to the qualitybearingsonline site, type in the size you need, you should get several hits. There are a few real odd-ball sizes that some manufacturers use, these are basically **** manufacturers because they choose to use something not easily source-able or replaceable, just trying to sell you a bike that won't work in a few seasons, so avoid those bike companies. Research the bearing sizes for your bike before you buy and make sure they are available.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Jayem said:


> qualitybearingsonline.com sells...well, quality bearings. Several of the "real" quality bearing companies, like NTN, SKF, F.A.G., etc. Not to say that Enduro isn't "real", but they are moderate quality that have the word "enduro", so you think they must be good or something. They started with fairly low quality bearings making replacement bearings for a few mtb applications and have expanded somewhat, but they are heavy on the hype and mountain biking isn't doing anything that industrial applications haven't been doing for decades, hell more than a century at this point, so if you really want to go to the source, you go to a bearing supplier that sells from all of the reputable bearing companies. As an example, a bottom bracket isn't really a "thing" IMO, it's a tube that has two bearings. It's about as basic of a component as possible, which means it relies almost 100% on the bearing, as in, what grade of bearing was used. What company, race face, FSA, SRAM, shimano, etc., doesn't matter. What matters is that bearing. If the BB bearing goes bad, you don't replace the BB, you replace the bearing. Go to the qualitybearingsonline site, type in the size you need, you should get several hits. There are a few real odd-ball sizes that some manufacturers use, these are basically **** manufacturers because they choose to use something not easily source-able or replaceable, just trying to sell you a bike that won't work in a few seasons, so avoid those bike companies. Research the bearing sizes for your bike before you buy and make sure they are available.


Thanks for the suggestion! I checked out that site and unfortunately they don’t have any max type bearings in 6901. Even regular deep groove bearings with 2 seals shows one option


https://www.qualitybearingsonline.com/w61901-2rs1-skf-thin-section-12x24x6mm/



Think those will be good for a pivot bearing? Don’t mind giving them a try if you think so.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Do small non-carrier bearings have industrial applications? 

Also, I would argue that the precision of the cups are very important in the bottom bracket. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

N54tt said:


> Not sure what you’re trying to say.


Yeah, I didn't do a good job of clearly stating what I was trying to say.

Many suspension bearings are not standardized and are designed for specific bike applications. As such, you might not be able to find a needed bearing size from a major industrial bearing manufacturer (SKF, NSK, F.A.G. etc.). This is where you will likely need to buy Enduro bearings. For most suspension/pivot applications (not BB, hubs, etc.), Enduro might be your best option. You can find knock-off, lower quality bearings on Amazon, but for suspension applications, they likely won't have the quality of Enduro Max bearings.



N54tt said:


> It’s been mentioned to look for any quality brand max bearing.
> Looked on Amazon and found some max bearings from Fushibearing.
> ...the Amazon ones I found were the Fushibearing.


What I made reference to was that all Max bearings are Enduro bearings. Max is an Enduro brand name. I think you are using Max synonymously with Full Compliment. If you find Max bearings on Fushibearing, then they are Enduro bearings.
All Max bearings are full compliment, but not all full compliment bearings are Max.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> Yeah, I didn't do a good job of clearly stating what I was trying to say.
> 
> Many suspension bearings are not standardized and are designed for specific bike applications. As such, you might not be able to find a needed bearing size from a major industrial bearing manufacturer (SKF, NSK, F.A.G. etc.). This is where you will likely need to buy Enduro bearings. For most suspension/pivot applications (not BB, hubs, etc.), Enduro might be your best option. You can find knock-off, lower quality bearings on Amazon, but for suspension applications, they likely won't have the quality of Enduro Max bearings.


Gotcha! Makes sense. So basically confirms my observations that if you want suspension type bearings, go with Enduro branded ones. Some people have posted issues running Enduro bearings and had better luck with regular high quality bearings. Which brings us back to the OP’s question. Enduro vs Ordinary/regular sealed bearings. My only problem is that I even had a hard time finding what/where to buy regular quality bearings from a major industrial bearing manufacturer. The site @Jayem listed only has the one SKF bearing available in a 6901 size…which I believe is a common size.




Cleared2land said:


> What I made reference to was that all Max bearings are Enduro bearings. Max is an Enduro brand name. I think you are using Max synonymously with Full Compliment. If you find Max bearings on Fushibearing, then they are Enduro bearings.
> All Max bearings are full compliment, but not all full compliment bearings are Max.


I was using Max synonymously with full compliment. I was getting confused myself because some sites list the bearings as Enduro, some as Max….but they are not “Enduro” branded bearings. I guess Enduro lawyers have some work to do on copyright infringements lol. The Max Fushibearing bearing I bought on amazon is definitely NOT an “Enduro” branded bearing. 








6901 VRS MAX Cartridge Bearings, Size 12x24x6mm Chrome Steel Blue Sealed with Grease, 6901LLU Cart Full Balls Bearing for Bike Hub Pivot, (Pick of 4Pcs): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


6901 VRS MAX Cartridge Bearings, Size 12x24x6mm Chrome Steel Blue Sealed with Grease, 6901LLU Cart Full Balls Bearing for Bike Hub Pivot, (Pick of 4Pcs): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I took a look at that Amazon site and I think the seller is using MAX as a catch. Take a look at their seals and Enduro Max seals.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> I took a look at that Amazon site and I think the seller is using MAX as a catch. Take a look at their seals and Enduro Max seals.
> 
> View attachment 1973422
> 
> ...


Again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say . They’re obviously different seals. 

Can’t say what the seller is using “Max” for. Whether a catch or to use synonymously for full compliment? In any event seeing them use Max is why I used it synonymously…as I didn’t know Enduro had a copyright on “Max” bearings.

I have both bearings and can confirm both seals look like those pics. Can’t tell how well they seal by just looking at them.
As far as the internal of the bearings. I’m willing to remove the seal on one of the Amazon bearings and take a pic of the internal bearing….if there’s any interest. I don’t want to remove the Enduro one and compromise the seals though.
As I mentioned before, the inner race on the Amazon bearings have a bit of lateral play, that the Enduro does not have.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

N54tt said:


> . I’m willing to remove the seal on one of the Amazon bearings and take a pic of the internal bearing….if there’s any interest.


I'd surely be curious to have a look. Do they spin more or less the same...wonder if the Amazon one has a carrier or not? 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

WHALENARD said:


> I'd surely be curious to have a look. Do they spin more or less the same...wonder if the Amazon one has a carrier or not?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


They seem to spin the same, no real discernible difference at least. Pivot bearings don’t really spin that much any way. I think that as long is there isn’t any binding it doesn’t really matter…and what matters the most are the seals, sealing in the grease and sealing out water/dirt/grime.

According to the description they are full compliment NO retainer. Here’s a pic with the seal removed.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Enduro Max do not have retainers either.

What I was saying was that if they were Max bearings, it would be identified on the seal.



N54tt said:


> ...and what matters the most are the seals, sealing in the grease and sealing out water/dirt/grime.


That can be easily mitigated by incorporating some standard practices.

What is this bike that these are for?


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> Enduro Max do not have retainers either.
> 
> What I was saying was that if they were Max bearings, it would be identified on the seal.
> 
> ...


I never thought the Amazon ones were Enduro branded Max bearings. Which is why I bought them to compare to the Enduro Max ones.

They are a non retainer full compliment bearing though. 

I agree it can be mitigated….but most of the time people complain about bearings is because they don’t last, see corrosion and binding. The ones they do like is because they last longer. You think that’s due to incorporation of standard practices and not how well the bearing is sealed? (of course comparing same chromium steel to chromium steel, not chromium steel to 440c stainless). 

The Enduro bearings I bought are going in a Rift Zone 3.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If the bearings and seals that you bought from Amazon are the same as the photos, then you have VRS seals which are non contact low friction seal used for very high speed applications. Not a seal that I would expect to see on a suspension/pivot bearing.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> If the bearings and seals that you bought from Amazon are the same as the photos, then you have VRS seals which are non contact low friction seal used for very high speed applications. Not a seal that I would expect to see on a suspension/pivot bearing.


Interesting and good to know! As a side note, the Amazon listing uses VRS and LLU interchangeably. 

I mentioned in my first post…I‘ve already decided I would be running the Enduro Max black oxide bearings, not the Amazon’s. I wasn’t really expecting to use the Amazon ones and only got them to compare. Glad to be the guinea pig, since there weren‘t any meaningful reviews on Amazon.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

N54tt said:


> As a side note, the Amazon listing uses VRS and LLU interchangeably.


Technically they are mechanically interchangeable, but not necessarily application interchangeable. All part of marketing algorithms. VSR is a non contact low friction seal used for very high speed applications and LLU is a full contact, double lip seal system. 

Bearing contamination mitigation - Standard Practices

All bearings have something that covers them. On the Rift 3, your only cover that protects your bearing outer seal is the Pivot Bolt (3). 










All additional protection will be done only by your bearing seal. You can add an additional protection layer between the Pivot bolt and the outer bearing seal by applying a layer of grease of your choice between these two.

My method to add additional protection is illustrated below:

Different Pivot bearing, but the application is identical.










Apply grease of your choice over outer bearing seal. Marine grease might be preferred depending on ride environment.










Then re-install bearing bolt/cover and torque to specification. Appropriately clean residual squished out excess grease.
The additional grease provides an improved barrier to contaminates before they even reach the bearing seal.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Cleared2land said:


> Technically they are mechanically interchangeable, but not necessarily application interchangeable. All part of marketing algorithms. VSR is a non contact low friction seal used for very high speed applications and LLU is a full contact, double lip seal system.
> 
> Bearing contamination mitigation - Standard Practices
> 
> ...


If I don’t get to use Max synonymously with full compliment. They don’t get to use VRS and LLU synonymously

Thanks for posting the tips and pics on additional protection. Will be super useful for people! I had already known it and had planned on doing it. Did the same additional protection to my i9 1/1 hubs. Added some additional grease to the surface of the bearings before installing the end caps.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Hi all,
I am running the Fushibearing referenced above in a pair of Time Atac World Cups. I have a second bike running the Enduro Max in the same pedal.
The pedal is well sealed and I rarely ride in wet conditions.

I like to hear the details on the Fushibearing VRS seal designed for high speed revolutions. Meaning the seal might improve performance on wheels and pedals.


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