# Review: KD 2 x Cree XML-U2 4+10-Mode 2200 Lumens Bicycle Light (picture heavy)



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've got opurtunity to inspect very promising dual led bicycle light from Kaidomain.com.



https://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023808.z

From the outer look it is the one of few latest clones of Yinding (Gemini Duo clone), so it is essentionaly clone of the clone.









Here are the pictures:














































Taking it apart was quite easy



















The driver:



















Internals - PCB:



















Lenses:










Lenses can be simply replaced:










*Opearating:*

The light has three modes chosen from 10 brightness levels. It can be any combination you want. You can make it Low, Mid , Hi or Hi, Mid , Low or Low, Hi, Mid if you want. For this test I've choosen levels 1, 4 and 10. Strobe is hidden and can be reached with long press from off mode.Light is turned off by long press in any mode.

The light is powered by tipical 2S2P 8.4V battery pack.

*Power usage*

Connected to the battery pack:










Level1:










Level4:










Level10:



















Beam on high:










Beam of 2nd generation Yinding to compare to:










*Final verdict*

*Pro:*


*best user interface you can find in the budget bicycle lights*
10 levels of brigtnes to choose from
small and very light
nice evenly spreaded beam
overheating protection
XM-L2 U2 leds (despite title says it's XM-L)
14.5W (2200mA) to the leds
possibilities to exchange TIR lenses for wider angle

*Con:*


not the best heat transfer to the housing (Yinding has it much better)
no thermal paste (as usuall, but can be easily added)
can overheat at higher levels but it's ok when moving fast
cool white leds (neutral white would be much better)
not waterproof but can probably stand light rain

Overall very nice bicycle light for helmet use, specialy for MTB purposes. There are quite some improvement I would like to see, though.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ughh, I have to resize the pictures. It looks they are to wide.
EDIT: I've fixed that, I hope


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Looks good to me. Are the photo's of the KD2 with one flood lens or is this with the stock optics? Are you satisfied with the brightness/beam pattern of the stock lamp?
BTW, those emitters look like XM-L2 to me.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, for the lenses I just put wide 25deg instead of stock one to see if it fits. I was just holding them with my fingers. 
Yes I'm quite satisfied with beam and brightness. As you can see on the last two pictures the beam is bit wider, no really defined hotspot. Yinding for example looks brighter beause of more concentrated beam. 
I know it is XM-L2, but description and original title at KD says XM-L so I didn't change that. Don't know which one you would get in the future. Will need to ask KD.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the review! Kicking myself I didn't wait and get this one instead of the KD 4.2v version one with the weak "standard" driver. Might pick this one up and count the old one a loss. 

-Garry


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

KD use different optics than the yinding's ??


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yinding has some spread compared to the KD clone and a nice LED tint also. Great review!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, yes this one has way much better driver than 4.2V one you've got. You can still make something of it. Ask KD if they can provide separate driver from this "KD2". Would buy one for myself to.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

C.M.S said:


> KD use different optics than the yinding's ??


As MK noted correctly Yinding has more defined hotspot and some side spill. But if you run (and you should) second light on the bars, there is no big need for side spill. Still there are different personal preferences about ideal beam profile. 
It is bad weather here around so I haven't take it to the trail to compare, yet.

Thanks MK. Yes LED tint from my Yinding is much nicer, though. I'm thinking about combining best from both. Well, maybe. Reflowing leds is quite simple.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

The beam pattern of the KD2 looks better than the Yinding to me. If I were looking for my first bar light I would buy one of these in a heartbeat and then look to buy a better battery.

The Yinding is probably using first generation XM-L2 T6 which were warmer in tint. The newer XM-L2's ( U2 ) are brighter and whiter. If you want warmer LEDs just buy a couple XM-L2's that are neutral white ( < 5000°K ) and do the switch if you have good DIY skills.

edit; I should probably mention here that since we are talking about these and the fact that they look pretty nice they will likely sell out really fast....FYI...FWIW.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Ask KD if they can provide separate driver from this "KD2". Would buy one for myself to.


Done. I'll post back with their response.

-Garry


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Just got my real Duo in the mail today , and my first thought was HOLY CRAP these things are small ! Nice n bright to boot with a nice beam pattern .
Any way,has anyone experimented with custom optics besides the 60 degree ones that are meant for these duo's and clones alike ?


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## siata94 (Jan 27, 2013)

thanks for your review ledoman


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

C.M.S said:


> Any way,has anyone experimented with custom optics besides the 60 degree ones that are meant for these duo's and clones alike ?


On this "KD2" clone it is easy to use any of 10, 25, 45, 60 degrees TIR optics. I've found most usable combination 10+25 degrees, but tested in some other light. Still stock lenses in the "KD2" has quite nice beam. Don't know what is with stock Duo, though.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm not sure if I have this light or yet another version.
Mine has the usual low-mid-high-low arrangement, but if you hold the switch down it goes off then after a couple of seconds you get a 10-level mode. Unfortunately it just goes 1-2-3-4.... and if you want to drop down you have to switch off and start over. Obviously impractical mid-ride. I am using it for running on my commute where the different levels are needed.

Am I missing some programming trick to set the level of the3 modes?

Incidentally, mine had poor waterproofing and heatsinking. I added o-rings, silicone, a finned metal GoPro adapter and thermal paste.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*Ofroad*, you have the very same driver and user interface. Yes you are missing the point how to save choosen level. I didn't describe it, though. My bad. Here is corrected copy/paste from my post at DX forum. It is for different driver but same UI:


when connected to the battery status led on the back side turns on (green or red below certain input voltage)
it has three modes (mode 1, 2, 3 - see downwards)
short press turns the light on in 1st mode
every next short press you gradualy cycle through all three modes (gradualy changing the brightness)
long press about 2 seconds turns the light off
no last mode memory
it has hiden flash, you can turn it on when light is off by presing switch for about two seconds. With long press you turn flash off, when flashing with short press you put the light into 1st mode 
*now the cherry on the cake  *- You can set any of three modes choosing from 10 levels of brightness
very long press (about 8s) in any of three modes set yellow status light flashing
short press to cycle through 10 levels of brightness. *On choosen level very looooong press until light tuns on again sets you brightness level for that mode*
repeat this for all modes you want to set 
now you can have low, mid, hi or hi, low, mid or hi, hi, hi or whatever you like ;-)))
it has low voltage warning turning red status on
when low voltage is to low lights fade away to low mode and red status light is flashing. It stays in this mode even if you turn the light off. You can't switch to any higher mode at that point unless you unplug the batteries.

Can you explain it in detail how you made it more weatherproof?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Sometimes there are slight differences in how these things work. Basically it should work something like this:

Cycle through to the default mode you want to change> press and hold switch till there is a flash. > you should be in the 10 level mode, do short presses to change output levels. Sometimes the levels will go up and sometimes down, do the quick presses till you get to the level you want. _Sometimes if the level gets to max or minimum it will stop moving._ If you want to move the levels the other way you ( might ) have to exit by press/holding till it flashes, then restart like before. This time when you do the short presses it should move the other way. > Once you get it where you want it you press and hold till it flashes. At that point that level will be stored on that mode.

Hope this helps. Would be nice if they included instructions with these things.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Good news! KD responded to my inquiry about the driver. They will sell the driver for this light (sku#S023788) for $8. They also reminded me that for my 4.2v version the LEDs would need rewired to series (I appreciated hearing this from them as it showed me they had some knowledge on what they were telling me about driver replacement). You would just have to contact them and say you wish to purchase the driver used in bike light sku#S023788. 

-Garry


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

ledoman said:


> On this "KD2" clone it is easy to use any of 10, 25, 45, 60 degrees TIR optics. I've found most usable combination 10+25 degrees, but tested in some other light. Still stock lenses in the "KD2" has quite nice beam. Don't know what is with stock Duo, though.


The Duo is 15 degree , as it should be fine I just like to have other options to play around with ..

Great review on this BTW .:thumbsup:


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

ledoman said:


> *Ofroad*, you have the very same driver and user interface. Yes you are missing the point how to save choosen level. I didn't describe it, though. My bad. Here is corrected copy/paste from my post at DX forum. It is for different driver but same UI:
> 
> 
> when connected to the battery status led on the back side turns on (green or red below certain input voltage)
> ...


Dude! Thanks for the help- I just set 3 modes to the brightness I wanted.
I'm even more keen to get the 4.2v version, as it would work with most of my existing batteries.

As for the weatherproofing:
I took off the back cap and slipped an o-ring around it before reassembly.
I placed thermal paste between LED board and the prongs that hold it.
I replaced the O-ring type bar mount with one of Vancbiker's aluminum GoPro mounts, and gobbed black gasket-making sealant into the hole under it where the cable exits before reassembling.
I even added some heat sink fins, but that's overkill.

This light could also use some waterproof connectors.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Has anyone found a 2x XML-2 4+10 mode version on 4.2V at KD or elsewhere?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't think you want the 4.2v version. First of all, the 4.2v version does NOT have this programmable driver. My experience has been that the 4.2v version has too much voltage drop through the wiring which gives you less current to the LEDs on high (can't keep voltage high enough for the vF of the LEDs). Lastly, 4.2v battery packs (user replaceable cells) are tough to find or require modding from series to parallel. 

Mine in stock form was kind of meh, but I'd expect output to drop quickly as the batteries deplete.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

C.M.S thanks. Yes 15 degree is also about the same as with Magicshine MJ-880. I've tested 10+25deg combo in a MJ-880 clone which can be very nice bar light then after modding.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Dude! Thanks for the help- I just set 3 modes to the brightness I wanted. I'm even more keen to get the 4.2v version, as it would work with most of my existing batteries.


The 4.2V version does not have same driver and doesn't have 10 level user interface. At least the ones at KD are like that. Garry has 4.2V version and he is probably switching to this 8.4V 10 level version, so be aware.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Thanks, I didn't see the 4.2v with the 10-mode driver either. I can live with the 7.4v version. I do have all sorts of well-waterproofed 4.2v battery packs made with real Panasonic 3400mah cells, but only a couple of 7.4s.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Update on buying this "KD2" driver separately: KD has responded that they will post this "KD2" driver to their website with its own SKU# for purchase (likely by tomorrow). I'll post back with a link when it's up.

By the way, you all know that this light is not called a "KD2" correct? It has no model number. I believe someone in another thread called it a "KD2" and now that's stuck with it.

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Update on buying this "KD2" driver separately: KD has responded that they will post this "KD2" driver to their website with its own SKU# for purchase (likely by tomorrow). I'll post back with a link when it's up.
> 
> By the way, you all know that this light is not called a "KD2" correct? It has no model number. I believe someone in another thread called it a "KD2" and now that's stuck with it.
> 
> -Garry


The "KD2" notation was in the title for the original ad. Since this lamp had a particular LED driver it was necessary to distinguish it from the other Duo clones when having discussions. Of course if communicating with the seller you need to use the SKU# ( or give them the link ).


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Is the separate driver better than the stock one ?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

The separate driver IS the stock one for this "KD2" light. It's just that some of us modders would like to buy it separately to put into other lights. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nice review. How tough is it to press that button on the back? One thing i really like about the Solarstorm lights is how well their button works. I'm surprised that it only draws 1.76 A on high. The Solarstorm draws almost 2A.



ledoman said:


> On this "KD2" clone it is easy to use any of 10, 25, 45, 60 degrees TIR optics. I've found most usable combination 10+25 degrees, but tested in some other light. Still stock lenses in the "KD2" has quite nice beam. Don't know what is with stock Duo, though.


I wonder if I can use these optics in the Solarstorm X2 or X3. I really like the beam on this KD light, it would be nice to do that on the Solarstorms.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

garrybunk said:


> The separate driver IS the stock one for this "KD2" light. It's just that some of us modders would like to buy it separately to put into other lights.
> 
> -Garry


 Like a SSX2 for better performance ?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

C.M.S said:


> Like a SSX2 for better performance ?


Possibly, if you take care of heatsinking issues. Me - I'm looking to use it in my 4.2v duo clone (and rewire LEDs to series). I'm also wondering about its use in an HD-016.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

CMS, varider, to be clear this driver can fit in similar (same looking) lights with different stock driver (there are 4.2V versions like Garry's one). It might somehow fit into some others lights, but will need more or less modifications. I don't think it would be good for SSX2 unless you can mount it perpendicular to the existing. It is a problem SSX2 has screws in the middle while KD has them on the sides. Also the holes are so close together you would need to drill them into KD circuit damaging the traces. 

I would advise rather to buy new "KD2" one instead of pushing it's driver to the SSX2. Except if you can't live without modding things


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Just FYI, Vancbiker makes a metal go-pro adapter that has extra fins for better cooling, which is helpful for this light. (after you place thermal paste between LEDs and housing)


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I rolled the dice on this light a couple of weeks ago and it came in yesterday...All I got was "Snake Eyes". Aargh.
The driver/switch flashes between red and green but no illumination from the LED's. And that's with 2 different batteries.
Now just waiting to see how their Cust serv is but have pretty much chalked it up as my "stupid tax".


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Up, you would need to provide much more details in order to find and resolve the problem. First you have to describe exactly your battery setup, etc. At least you have to describe it to us who are here to help and for others who would learn something out of it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

This "10-step programmable driver is now available for purchase separately: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023801 .

-Garry


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

ledoman said:


> Up, you would need to provide much more details in order to find and resolve the problem. First you have to describe exactly your battery setup, etc. At least you have to describe it to us who are here to help and for others who would learn something out of it.


So it seems my reading comprehension has failed me... I ordered the 4.2v instead of the 8.4v. 
Since I don't have a 4.2v battery I just hooked it up to a 5v power supply and it works fine so I sent them an email saying "Never mind". 

I'd like to keep the same battery packs across all of my lights for myself and the kids so I think I'll just order the driver that Garry found, re-wire it, and buy one of those amazon 8.4v packs .

Is it safe to "ass"ume that the reason for going to series is to keep the voltage drop across the LED at 4.2v?

Thanks all.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

DOH! I should have recognized that Red-Green flash description as that's what mine did when I connected it to an 8.4v battery pack! I apoligize for not picking up on that. I posted about mine flashing in the duo clone (or Yinding review) thread and I bet you didn't see it.

And yes, they are matching the voltage drop with the input voltage source so as to keep the drivers more simplistic (at least this is my thought). 4.2v input with LED's in series woulc require a boost driver (and have loss in efficiency), 8.4v with LED's in parallel would require a buck driver (more expense in components). More and more I'm thinking the parallel LEDs with a buck driver is the best way to go. Much easier to keep the input voltage above the required vF (forward/operating voltage) of the LEDs which keeps you higher output.

-Garry


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## Conquer (Nov 29, 2014)

ledoman said:


> On this "KD2" clone it is easy to use any of 10, 25, 45, 60 degrees TIR optics. I've found most usable combination 10+25 degrees, but tested in some other light. Still stock lenses in the "KD2" has quite nice beam. Don't know what is with stock Duo, though.


Will these optics fit into KD2?
https://www.ledsupply.com/cree-xml2-led-optics


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm pretty sure those do (the 20mm ones). I have some at home, but haven't got around to test fitting them. You don't need the holder of course.

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

garrybunk said:


> This "10-step programmable driver is now available for purchase separately: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023801 .
> 
> -Garry


I wrote KD to see if they can supply this upgrade with XML-2 neutral emitters included.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I wrote KD to see if they can supply this upgrade with XML-2 neutral emitters included.


That would be sweet. Let us know if they give positive feed back.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

KD wrote me that at my requiest they have listed the driver board with XML-2 U2 LEDs
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023805

I asked them to confirm the tint. If it's neutral this will be da bomb!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Interesting! Now it's even more confusing with the other being "driver only"! Yeah, they need to list specs on emitters it's coming with. 

-Garry


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Seems to be cool white from the LED die. But the pic may be confusing.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, very likely the same I've got - about 1A I would say. From my pictures in the OP you can see the difference to more neutral white from 2nd gen. Yinding. Hopefuly they can change that to something like 3A,B,C,D.

Dedoming leds would make them bit more warmer tint. You are gaining more throw but less lumens (or side spill, still unclear to me). It is reported so about reflector usage at least.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

A better option is to reflow the needed LEDs, it can't be that much complicated and you can select the tint.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes of course, I've just wanted to point out another possibility for no cost. ;-)


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

MK96 said:


> Seems to be cool white from the LED die. But the pic may be confusing.


Good eye. They confirmed to me today that it's cool white, which defeats the purpose.
I asked them again about neutral tint.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Got mine today, just in time for the shortest night of the year. 

Yinding eq modes seem to be about 3/6/9 with 10 looking a little brighter. Maybe I'll run both with a Y cable.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I wrote KD to see if they can supply this upgrade with XML-2 neutral emitters included.


Ask and ye shall receive. 
KD has now posted a driver board that includes XML-2 U2 neutral emitters.
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807

I posted it in the Yinding thread too. Sorry if it's bad cross-posting etiquette.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.
> KD has now posted a driver board that includes XML-2 U2 neutral emitters.
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807
> 
> I posted it in the Yinding thread too. Sorry if it's bad cross-posting etiquette.


*One word, "Sweeeeeet"* :cornut: ( reputation sent )

Big time thanks! Placing the order now. One for the bars, one for the helmet. I have no idea of course how I will like it. That's the point; with the Chinese stuff you get to experiment without laying down too much coin.

If I like what I see I might start prodding the better name brands manufacturers to offer "neutral white" versions. Yes, that means if I like these I will certainly beg the Gloworm people for NW, even if that means buying a new lamp from them. Call this the "Chinese trickle UP effect". You start with something cheap and then move up to something better.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I got 2 boards, but just one of the new Yinding lights for now. I may upgrade the clone I have already.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I got 2 boards, but just one of the new Yinding lights for now. I may upgrade the clone I have already.


I can't help but wonder if these boards will work on a Yinding (?) I'm also wondering if the LED board might somehow fit into one of my older Gloworms...:ihih: I guess I'll find that out when they arrive.

*Edit, Now wouldn't it be nice to get these same boards for the SSX2/X3!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.
> KD has now posted a driver board that includes XML-2 U2 neutral emitters.
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807


I've asked them to clearify the actual bin and they told me it is 3C, so the full data would be *XM-L2 U2 3C*. They have updated their web page.

I'm looking forward to hear from someone who ordered this (Cat maybe?).


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Judging from the photos the driver might handle current of 3A. It will be a challenge to put this one into a SSX2 body.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

*Current table*

Gave mine a tune up tonight.

No thermal paste. Fixed that.

Shortened the cable down to 25cm from 125cm. That was burning off 0.4V on high! I think 22AWG is a bit light for 2 amps.

Measured all the modes at 7V and 8V.
in mA:
Step 7V 8V
1 50 70
2 135 180
3 235 310
4 355 450
5 500 605
6 660 775
7 850 960
8 1070 1160
9 1320 1385
10 1700 1710

Off : 18mA

The driver does the same thing as the Yinding on high, at around 7.15V it has a sharp peak of around 2.2A before dropping back to 1.8-1.9A

I was hoping to flip the back around so the button would be on the other side but the inductor is getting kinda cosy with the power lead like that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

That peak must be happening at the point where the voltage from the battery drops below the sum of the leds Vf, I think.

Where did you measure the current - at the input side or from driver to the leds? Have you use thick enough wires to the DMM (or whatever it was)?
Just want to know how accurate is the calculation using LEDA chip feedback voltage and sense resistor value (probably with +/- 5% variance).

22 AWG wire has resistance of 53mOhm per meter so your was 2.5*53= 132.5 mOhm. Adding to that very likely 100mOhm connector resistance resulting in 230mOhm of resistance. At 2A using formula P=I^2 * R you get 2^2 * 0.230 = 0.92W let say 1W of looses. I think 0.4V drop is bit to much for that 1,25m. Either the wire is thinner or there was something other involved. Will try to measure what figures I get with my sample.

EDIT: You were right. On mine sample I've got 0.41V drop from the connector to the driver at 1.72A. That is to much I think.

How much drop are you geting now when wires are shortened? Is it 1/5 of the one before?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Useful stuff here ;-)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I should have mine later today when I pick it up at the post office. I would of had it on Christmas eve but the postman either isn't knocking on my door or he has the knock of a flea.  I have to work later today but at least I should be able to play with it while at work. Looking forward to my belated selfie Christmas gift.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Looking forward to hear your opinion. As I wrote in the review there are some pro and some con, too.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ledoman said:


> EDIT: You were right. On mine sample I've got 0.41V drop from the connector to the driver at 1.72A. That is to much I think.
> 
> How much drop are you geting now when wires are shortened? Is it 1/5 of the one before?


Current measurement was from the power supply, voltage was at the connector. I should measure the LED current to check efficiency I guess, maybe after the holidays.

I didn't write down the cable voltage drop after shortening it but seem to recall it was much less.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I had a chance to shine the KD2 around while at work yesterday. This is the newest version with XM-L2 U2, supposedly. I have yet to verify the emitter.

Initial comparisons with my Gloworm X2 ( v2 with XML-U2 ) are quite favorable. The KD2 seems very bright. At least as bright as the GW X2 v2. If the X2 v2 was suppose to be 1200 lumen I would have to say that these KD Duo clones are at least as bright. Beam pattern is slightly different, not quite as wide as the GW but very close. 

The KD2 functions very well. The switch has an audible click when switching modes. The 10 level sub menu works well as expected. There is a quick fade when switching modes. To maximize the efficiency of the lamp I have reset the first and second modes to lower levels. Changing the levels is very easy so if I need to reset while on a ride it should be no problem.

Since I have two of the neutral LED boards on the way I will at some point try to mode the lamp. I will try to take the front off the lamp to sure up the optics which seem to rattle slightly. Other than this rattling the only other fault I see at the moment is the very long power cord. The cord is long enough to reach from a helmet to a backpack so you have no need for an extension cord. Thermal transfer appears to be pretty good because the lamp body heats up pretty fast when being used. I'll learned more about that when I take the front off. Hopefully I have a tool small enough to fit the small screws.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yours has screws in the front? So it's different from my 4.2v version and ledoman's sample. I'm sure it's got the same pathetic thermal contact to the body. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Yours has screws in the front? So it's different from my 4.2v version and ledoman's sample. I'm sure it's got the same pathetic thermal contact to the body.
> 
> -Garry


No, there are no screws letting you get the front off. This means I have to disassemble from the rear. What a PITA. This means I won't be able to look at the LED's until I disassemble the whole unit.

Looks like I won't be using this lamp in any kind of wet weather until I switch out the LED board. There is a very large hole on the underside of the lamp where the power cord comes out. Should require a good bit of silicone to seal that off.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Looks like K/D now sells the KD2 Duo clone with neutral LED's so no modding necessary if you want neutral LED's. They also sell an 880 clone with neutral LED's as well. Cool stuff.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Looks like K/D now sells the KD2 Duo clone with neutral LED's so no modding necessary if you want neutral LED's. They also sell an 880 clone with neutral LED's as well. Cool stuff.


Another XM-L2 U2 3C, hmm have we started a trend on MTBR? Good to see choices for those who prefer nuetral.

Can someone do a head to head with the Yinding?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't have a neutral KD but plan to change mine when I get the board.
I can compare with the Yinding when I get it.

I suspect KD used the neutral LEDs I requested for the upgrade board. 
Catman, can you please post the link?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*KD2 Duo Clone; Neutral tint*



Ofroad'bent said:


> I don't have a neutral KD but plan to change mine when I get the board.
> I can compare with the Yinding when I get it.
> 
> I suspect KD used the neutral LEDs I requested for the upgrade board.
> Catman, can you please post the link?


Sure, >  KD2 ( Duo Clone ) with XM-L2 U2 ( Neutral Tint )


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

And here's the 880 clone in neutral.
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023818

It doesn't have a programmable driver. The two button design makes a board swap a no-go.

It's really interesting that our little group is influencing the market. We've always wanted the manufactures to listen to the features we desire. We're getting damn close to inexpensive Chinese lights giving the big boys a run for their money.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ian_C said:


> And here's the *808 clone* in neutral.
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023818
> 
> It doesn't have a programmable driver. The two button design makes a board swap a no-go.
> ...


Actually, you mean *"880" clone*. The 808's were the single emitter lamps. Would be interesting to see one of these in neutral as they could be using a stronger driver. Can't wait to see some of the SStorm models in neutral white.

*@GJHS*, Anyway you might get the Gearbest people to provide a "Neutral version" of the SSX3? If so start a new thread on that.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> *@GJHS*, Anyway you might get the Gearbest people to provide a "Neutral version" of the SSX3? If so start a new thread on that.


On it already, talked about the SSX3 and/or the XT40 to pair up with the Yinding.

I know GearBest is open to making what we want, I just need ideas. I don't want to come across as a salesman or someone who works for GB, so I haven't posted anything.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay guys so I have another really stupid question. Noticed Kaidomain also offers their MJ-880 clone in Silver with battery pack and 2xCree XM-L T6. What is the difference between the XM-L T6 in White and the XM-L2 U2 in Neutral (3C)? Know that the latter is a later generation, is it appreciably more efficient/brighter or different in color? Becasue I was aking around about an XM-L T6 I saw on Amazon and everyone said it was absolutely blindingly, brilliant white, not warm but no trace of blue. Notice the T6s seem to be priced higher than the U2s but maybe that's just because of ongoing refinements to the manufacturing process which allows Cree to pump out higher powered emitters at less expense than prior generations? Tempted to grab that T6 before it is obsolesced, seems like Silver has been discontinued and that's the color I really want, although I don't need the battery pack and charger that's bundled with it, d'oh!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If the Silver is one that is most important to you (if I understand you right) just buy one. The leds you can change very simple to the ones you would want. You just need some soldering skills and bit of thermal paste. The thermal paste would be good to add anyway as it shurely comes without it. To change the leds you need to buy the 2 of the ones you would like on a 16mm PCB (star). The XM-L2 U2 4C is an nearest example to those we are talking. But you can get he leds elswhere. If you want it even better then choose the leds on a 16mm copper PCB. I can tell you also how to mod this MJ880 clone to the higher current, but we need to discuss it somewhere else not in this thread.

Saying all that I would like to tell the leds are not an issue if you want to have 880 clone in silver.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Putting the "New" in "Neutral"*

Thanks ledoman but my soldering skilz are kerpludnicht. Anyway Kaidomain's bundled XM-L T6 MJ-880 clone is twice the price of their solitary XM-L2 U2 3C light head, and I'd wait longer for delivery cause of that included battery pack only to be discarding the worthless cells inside it once it did arrive. Otherwise the circuitry is the same 2800mA in the two versions (guessing that would that make 'em burn brighter but run out the battery sooner than the 2200mA in your KD?) Still what I most want to know, is there any difference between the [Neutral] T6 and U2 emitters in real world application - the specs on Kaidomain look pretty much identical, give or take a measly couple hundred lumens... and since they indiscriminately publish the same product images as well as beam shots for each model you can't glean any info from those either. Interestingly, when I inquired on Amazon both about an OxyLED XM-L U2 MJ-880 clone and some XCSOURCE XM-L T6 kind of knockoff of an MJ-816 they had there, everyone replied that the lights were super bright white, no perceptible bluish tinge. So maybe these were both more of a Neutral bin to start with, unlike your Cool White Yinding clone? Am considering that bike lamp too now that it is available in Neutral White; like that it is programable but don't feel up to remedying the shoddy construction on my own. (Already placed an order for the new Neutral White Yinding from GearBest, sounds well enough made without mods for use as an intermittent head lamp.)

The good folk at Kaidomain said they'd try to procure a solitary Silver [MJ-880 clone] in Neutral for me from one of their distributors. Failing that, could just order their ridiculously inexpensive light head in Black, see if I can rub off the anodizing with XtraFine emery or super0 steel wool. Chamois it back up with paste wax. (Lousy electrician but master faux-finisher am I.)

Can't wait to see some beam shots of the Neutral XM-L2 U2 3C!!!


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Google search ... de anodizing aluminum.

Just disassemble the head unit and throw it in Mr.Musculo (NaOH solution) for couple of minutes, then clean it off with cloth and lots of watter.
Repeat the procedure if needed.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have 2 silver MJ880 XML U2 not T6 clones from KD. Mine aren't the "solarstormified version" whereas black seem to be. Quality light and can easily handle full power of 2 XMLs. The lighthead is about 130-140grams. If I ever upgrade the leds I'd go for int-outdoor noctigons.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Okay guys so I have another really stupid question. Noticed Kaidomain also offers their MJ-880 clone in Silver with battery pack and 2xCree XM-L T6. What is the difference between the XM-L T6 in White and the XM-L2 U2 in Neutral (3C)? Know that the latter is a later generation, is it appreciably more efficient/brighter or different in color? Becasue I was aking around about an XM-L T6 I saw on Amazon and everyone said it was absolutely blindingly, brilliant white, not warm but no trace of blue. Notice the T6s seem to be priced higher than the U2s but maybe that's just because of ongoing refinements to the manufacturing process which allows Cree to pump out higher powered emitters at less expense than prior generations? Tempted to grab that T6 before it is obsolesced, seems like Silver has been discontinued and that's the color I really want, although I don't need the battery pack and charger that's bundled with it, d'oh!


If you don't want the NW ( neutral white ) led go with the XM-L2 U2 version. I understand you want a silver lamp head but having a better LED is more important. If having more potential output is not that important to you than just get the silver.

Option #2; you might be able to contact KD and ask them if you can get the 880-clone in silver with the newer LED's. Just give them the correct order # and see if they can get it in silver....although you might have to wait a little longer for it to arrive.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> ..... Still what I most want to know, is there any difference between the [Neutral] T6 and U2 emitters in real world application....


I've already wrote this several times. Leds are put in the brightness classes during production. Each class has some variance (let name it dV). T6 and U2 are adjacent classes. So in theory if you randomly take one led from each class they can be allmost *the same or at most 2*dV apart*. dV was about 7% some time ago. See actual figures here: Brightness Bins - Flashlight Wiki
In practice it much depends on heatsinking, optics and the current at which it is running. Given it is all the same you may or may not notice the difference. Since the human eyes are adaptive they has logarithmic sensing curve not linear. This means that difference of 14% would be seen like 8 or 9%. The difference is 7% on average so logarithmicaly this is 4-5% only. To conclude *in practice the average difference between T6 and U2 to the human eyes is vey small*. It is much more depenable on optics and looses (heatsinking).


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you don't want the NW ( neutral white ) led go with the XM-L2 U2 version. I understand you want a silver lamp head but having a better LED is more important. If having more potential output is not that important to you than just get the silver.
> 
> Option #2; you might be able to contact KD and ask them if you can get the 880-clone in silver with the newer LED's. Just give them the correct order # and see if they can get it in silver....although you might have to wait a little longer for it to arrive.


Cat, I am looking for a Silver solitary MJ-880 style lamp head with either Neutral or bright White (i.e. anything but bluish, Cool White) emitters. From the little I've gleaned, the XM-L T6 and Neutral XM-L2 U2 3C are both pretty much on the same target, though I've yet to see beam shots of either.

Contacted KD the other day, said they'd ask their suppliers about getting me the Neutral XM-L2 in Silver. Otherwise, will just go order the Black one that's availble now all by itself, a steal at $25.59. Can always put my own silver coat on it, that's the one thing I'm capable of.

Really like the programable feature of the KD X2 ledoman posted here but am a bit too much of a klutz to perform all the delicate surgery needed to bring it up to snuff. MJ 880 clone OTOH looks like it might be less necessary or at least easier to mess with. Plus that owl face should scare away witches.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman said:


> I've already wrote this several times. Leds are put in the brightness classes during production. Each class has some variance (let name it dV). T6 and U2 are adjacent classes. So in theory if you randomly take one led from each class they can be allmost *the same or at most 2*dV apart*. dV was about 7% some time ago. See actual figures here: Brightness Bins - Flashlight Wiki
> In practice it much depends on heatsinking, optics and the current at which it is running. Given it is all the same you may or may not notice the difference. Since the human eyes are adaptive they has logarithmic sensing curve not linear. This means that difference of 14% would be seen like 8 or 9%. The difference is 7% on average so logarithmicaly this is 4-5% only. To conclude *in practice the average difference between T6 and U2 to the human eyes is vey small*. It is much more depenable on optics in looses (heatsinking).


Thanks again ledoman, that info jibes with all the feedback I've recently culled over the two classes in currently shipping products. There are some interesting three beam MJ-816 clones around with triple T6, trouble is that they are none of them programable like either the original MagicShine or your Yinding clone here: a real deal breaker in a lamp that can draw so much current. Checking out Cree's data sheet, on Flux Characteristics they have the T6 group both center in Cool and in Neutral bordering Warm White; U2 is Cool bordering Neutral.

Again, looking forward to your beam shots!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Cat, I am looking for a Silver solitary MJ-880 style lamp head with either Neutral or bright White (i.e. anything but bluish, Cool White) emitters. From the little I've gleaned, the XM-L T6 and Neutral XM-L2 U2 3C are both pretty much on the same target, though I've yet to see beam shots of either.
> 
> Contacted KD the other day, said they'd ask their suppliers about getting me the Neutral XM-L2 in Silver. Otherwise, will just go order the Black one that's availble now all by itself, a steal at $25.59. Can always put my own silver coat on it, that's the one thing I'm capable of.
> 
> Really like the programable feature of the KD X2 ledoman posted here but am a bit too much of a klutz to perform all the delicate surgery needed to bring it up to snuff. MJ 880 clone OTOH looks like it might be less necessary or at least easier to mess with. Plus that owl face should scare away witches.


I just noticed while looking at the K/D site that they do sell a silver 880 clone with XM-L2 U2. It did come with battery but if you special order you should be able to get it without battery. The U2 is not necessarily bluish. The KD2 Duo clone has the same emitters and it is just a very bright white.

Whatever you get be sure to give us some feed back when it arrives. I have a feeling you won't be disappointed.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Ha Ha Ha Cat, way ahead of you on that one. K/D just sent me an email saying they have uploaded a NW XM-L2 U2 in Silver to their website and I immediately ordered one along with a couple of their battery cases and a Y cable. Have the NW Yinding on order too so now am all set.  Oh and incidentally yeah, did say they could sell me the White XM-L T6 in Silver alone as well, but with the NW L2 being available in Silver of course I just went with that.

Yes the L2 U2 does look pretty bright white, from the few beam shots recently posted here. Wonder what the difference could be between it and the Neutral. Only thing I can think of is maybe the Neutral is slightly less bleaching? U2 is still grouped in Cool White on Cree's Luminous Flux chart.









Thanks for the heads up anyway, I'd had both the NW XM-L2 U2 Black and the White XM-L T6 in Silver complete set in my cart but figured I'd give K/D a little time to get back to me before ordering anything. So glad now!

Promise to post a _glowing_ review of received merchandise. ;-)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

^^...glad it all worked out for you. Nice to have another lamp in NW. 

Back to the KD2 Duo clone; Today I ran a quick 5M lux test of the KD2/DC with XM-L2 U2 vs. the SSX2 with just XM-L U2. Even though the Duo clone is using optics the lux at 5M is still brighter than my clone SSX2 ( which is actually pretty bright ). Just thought that was worth mentioning before heading to work.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Postman came with the "Neutral white" boards today. Dang the things are small. I won't have a lot of time to play with it till the weekend and hopefully I have the proper tools that will allow me to open the lamp up to service it. No rush on my part anyway, cold as all get-out and snow on the ground. Hard to test out a neutral white LED lamp when most of the ground is white.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Have you got leds on board only or driver combo?

You can test the tint on the white wall. Make a picture of stock one with same white balance settings (not auto) and again when changed. I would love to see them side by side. It's snowy here to that's why I don't make pictures at outside. 

To open it up you need small hex (I think is called that) screwdriver after you take own the mount. You'll see, it's very simple.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

^^....LED's and driver. If possible I'll just use the original driver and just switch out the LED board. BUT...depends, I might decide to disconnect the power wires and shorten them a bit. Oh how I wish I had a pair of those hobby/magnifying specs so I could see what I'm doing. Might be time for me to book on down to the local Hobby Lobby ( or Radio Shack ) and check out what they have to offer. I could also use a third hand tool and some desoldering braid.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman said:


> Have you got leds on board only or driver combo?
> 
> You can test the tint on the white wall. Make a picture of stock one with same white balance settings (not auto) and again when changed. I would love to see them side by side.


Just had a fiendish idea.




























Print out any or all of these and mount on wall, proceed as described above.

This could be a useful procedure in evaluating the effective tint on any light head submitted for review or whatever.

BTW, ledoman, you happened to mention you weren't crazy about the tint of your KD, which apparently came with the newish XM-L2 U2. Guess there may be a bit of variance either between the actual emitters or how they are driven in in different boards? Because I've been asking around and most feedback says they are bright white with no discernable blue tint, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. But then, the way we perceive color is relative, our eyes adjust indoors and out to normalize background spectrum. Also of course when we view other's images on our own LED back-lit monitors we won't necessarily be seeing the same thing. Oh, and can you tell us what emitter came with that 2nd gen Yindling you compared with it in those beam shots? Thanks!

@Cat-Man, Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing before and after beam shots, so get cracking!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, I think it would be easier for you to just cut power wires and solder it shortened to the new driver. Shortening would give less voltage drop. In fact thicker wires would be even better if you have one. Whenever I can I use THIS one.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> BTW, ledoman, you happened to mention you weren't crazy about the tint of your KD, which apparently came with the newish XM-L2 U2. Guess there may be a bit of variance either between the actual emitters or how they are driven in in different boards? Because I've been asking around and most feedback says they are bright white with no discernable blue tint, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. But then, the way we perceive color is relative, our eyes adjust indoors and out to normalize background spectrum. Also of course when we view other's images on our own LED back-lit monitors we won't necessarily be seeing the same thing. Oh, and can you tell us what emitter came with that 2nd gen Yindling you compared with it in those beam shots? Thanks!


Yes I pretty much know everything. I was just pointing out KD2 has clear (cool) white tint with no trace of yellow in it. Yinding (supposedly 1A) for example has just a bit of yellow. For 2ndGen. Yinding I have no info about bin and tint. I suppose it is T6 3x or 4x. When I'll compare to the 3C I would know it about tint, but I'll have to wait for 3C at least 2 or 3 weeks. 
Of course there are variations within same class so it pretty much depends on luck.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

*Had a left over KD*

I have had a KD light lying around that I have not used since I have other lamps I like better.

I wanted to test some warmer tint, so I ordered a driver with 3C leds from KD:
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807

And I also wanted to change the connector to a Magic Shine type connector.

And deep inside my storage room I found an old, very good head strap.

I built a simple mount and changed the optics to 25 degree lenses from leddna.

This is the result.








I'm VERY happy with the tint. This will serve well as a running in the forest light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Cat, I think it would be easier for you to just cut power wires and solder it shortened to the new driver. Shortening would give less voltage drop. In fact thicker wires would be even better if you have one. Whenever I can I use THIS one.


Yes, I am aware of those possibilities. I'm just worried that the new driver might not supply the same power output as the original. At least I do own a multimeter so I will be able to do that at some point.

I'm not really that worried about the voltage drop in the wires. I realize that they exist but at most we are talking about drops in 10th's of a volt. Nevertheless I don't like all the extra wire so yes I will likely splice in a MS type cord to my desired length.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

With this driver voltage drop is important as it turns down to "safe" mode at some voltage point. Now, the bigger voltage drop the sooner it will fall back to that mode. I've had big problems with some 6up light using same firmware. Ok there was much more current involved, but I had to change the resistor to lower that trigger. 

So in general for this driver it is better to have as small voltage drop as you can. If you already doing the changes, then try to take that issue into account.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> With this driver voltage drop is important as it turns down to "safe" mode at some voltage point. Now, the bigger voltage drop the sooner it will fall back to that mode. I've had big problems with some 6up light using same firmware. Ok there was much more current involved, but I had to change the resistor to lower that trigger.
> 
> So in general for this driver it is better to have as small voltage drop as you can. If you already doing the changes, then try to take that issue into account.


Well, from a technical POV I suppose you're right. Judging from your previous posts you like to tinker with the electronics. If you're looking for absolute improvement in run time than adjusting wire size/length will make the circuit a little more efficient, no question about that.

Personally I've never run a multi-cell battery so low that such an issue would really come into play. When I do my typical rides I rarely discharge my batteries more than half of the listed capacity. Nice to know though that the KD driver has a power-down low voltage monitor. If you hadn't of told me that I probably wouldn't have ever known. :lol: Actually, I wish it didn't have such a circuit because I'd rather be the one to decide when my battery is done and when it's not.

At least ( looking forward ) if I ever decide to tinker myself and try to pump up the output on one of these I know who's brain to pick. :thumbsup:


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, I've pointed out that also for the other people possibly run into this problem. If you have big voltage drop it can happen when you still have half or even more of the juice in your battery. This is very disturbing situation. Or if you have weak batteries with very low voltage curve + voltage drop (in cables, connectors, battery case, springs, PCB). So every part counts. 
Of course we don't think of this unless we have a problem and then we are scratching the head what the hell is going on and we blame batteries, leds, driver, but not the other parts.
It is just I have runt into those problems on hard at 6up light at high power and now I share the things learned.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I too ran into this situation head on with my 4.2v "KD2" light. It hit me hard because of the battery pack only being 4.2v. See post #94 to #99 in this thread where ledoman helped me out. Other users had me doing all kinds or mods with the current limiting resistors, jumping in a Nanjg 105C board with MCU removed, etc . . . and then we find out it's just voltage drop through the wiring / connectors! Ugh! 
By the way, I've not finished up that light yet. It's awaiting a transplant with the KD 10 step programmable driver. I did however buy some 18ga DC power leads to upgrade the lights power cable with.

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Solarstorm-type waterproof connectors with decent gauge wires:

5pairs OF DC5 5 2 1mm Waterproof Connector FOR Magicshine Light Connection BLK | eBay

A Pair Waterproof Power Connector Plug 2pin LED Cable | eBay



garrybunk said:


> I too ran into this situation head on with my 4.2v "KD2" light. It hit me hard because of the battery pack only being 4.2v. See post #94 to #99 in this thread where ledoman helped me out. Other users had me doing all kinds or mods with the current limiting resistors, jumping in a Nanjg 105C board with MCU removed, etc . . . and then we find out it's just voltage drop through the wiring / connectors! Ugh!
> By the way, I've not finished up that light yet. It's awaiting a transplant with the KD 10 step programmable driver. I did however buy some 18ga DC power leads to upgrade the lights power cable with.
> 
> -Garry


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Since you brought up 18 AWG wire . . .

I was going to mention this elsewhere, but here and now seems like a good place. Electrical know-nothing here, but I do read a lot on forums, retain much, and process it all.

I know most of our bike lights use 22 AWG wire and connectors. And of course I've seen Ledoman suggest the DX 20 gauge extension cable to reduce the voltage drop. I've also see posts where people have replaced the driver to LED wires with 20 gauge, copper silicon insulated wires. Similarly they're replaced the cable out of the light, and out of the battery with the heavier gauge wire.

I've also seen comments that the standard barrel connector causes a lot of loss. I know it's virtually sacrilege around here to discuss anything other than a standard Magic Shine type connector. But since manufacturers are starting to stray away from that "standard," it's worth asking the question "is there something better?"

If we drop down to 18 AWG, does that start to present problems? My understanding is that it's about equivalent thickness to standard North American lamp cord wire. I can see issues with fitting through holes in boards and cases, weight, and possibly flexibility. Is there anything electrically?

The reason I bring this up is that I was trolling around Hunk Lee's store and saw these 18 gauge wires, with two pin, waterproof, screw together connectors. (It's not listed in the description, so I asked HL. I have some garden and holiday lighting that use this connector. It looks similar to the SolarStorm wire ends, except it's two pin, instead of a barrel connector.)








A Pair Waterproof Power Connector Plug 2pin LED Cable | eBay







Waterproof Power Connector Plug 2pin Extension Cable 120cm Long for LED Connect | eBay

Would that kind of connector cause less loss than the standard barrel connection? Is 18 gauge too heavy? (I'm sure we can source 20 gauge with the same ends.)

We've clearly shown that we can influence the market. We might be able to change the direction on cabling too. Or maybe just leave it to a possibly "better than average" upgrade for those of us who want to tinker with Tim Taylor-esk "More Power!" (Cue the baboon noises)





Edited to add:
Ofroad'bent - Great minds think alike! (But my brother always adds "but fools seldom differ")


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow, both look like potential solutions for the crap cables that come with the cheapo lights. Am guessing though the two-pin connectors might be a bit more difficult to align in the dark than the barrel type? Dunno whether it would be possible to accidentally bend/break them while fumbling about, hopefully they are sturdy enough to hold up to that. I did once injure some perhaps more delicate pins to a keyed, USB PS, but luckily could coax them back into alignment. 

Awaiting feedback here from more knowledgeable sources before ordering either. Thanks for the heads up!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Andy, how powerful are the lights you're running? I think either connector is fine for up to 2 XMLs. If you're running 4 XMLs at 3 amps each you need to talk to ledoman.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks Ofroad'bent, none of the lights I hold now or have on order exceed 3 Amps, they're just 1 or 2X XM-L. Main issue is simply that the cable housing on the KD MJ-880 clone heading my way is notoriously poor, plus I kinda chewed up a light cable in my Giro's B-Pivot Adjustable stem. Also the connector on the new Yinding is just plain MagicShine so won't be perfectly compatible with the connectors on the SolarStorm battery boxes I ordered. Not to mention that the stock cable lengths will probably be all wrong for either setup of my two current 'bents, so this would give me a good excuse to tear everything apart and solder in new leads. Not that I'm any good at that but would be a valuable skill to pick up and maybe the safest place to start.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

In a lower current lights voltage drop caused by wires and connectors would be small but it will raise expotentialy. 
Here I'm quoting the desolder's answer on my voltage drop problem at DX forum.

"Wire losses are based on current. Assuming 40W @ 7.4V, the supply current is 5.4A. Let's say you want your supply wires to be 95% "efficient" (i.e. you lose 5% power in the wires). That means you'll lose 2W in the wires. Using the power equation P=I^2 * R, your wire resistance must be R= 2W / 5.4^2 = 68.6mohms. 1 meter of cable is actually 2 meters round trip, so resistance per meter for a single wire must be half of that, or 34.5mohms. Check out the wire resistance chart to find out which wire gauge qualifies:
American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Answer: 20AWG or less.

I believe *sku.32751* is already 20AWG, so you may actually be OK using the wire from this cable. However, the contact resistance of DC barrel connectors is not especially good, perhaps 100mohms or more. I know because they tend to melt on me when I try to draw over 3A. You could cut off the barrel connector and replace it with something like a Deans Ultra connector. "

With KD2 light we don't have that much power and as you can see above the 20 AWG should be good up to 6A ie. for the most lights we are using. Cable should not be to thick and 20AWG in a silicone coating seems just right to me.

So here we got the biggest problem with the connector. The weakest point in standard Magicshine connector is a hole part on the male connector side having only two small pins inside. The contact area is very small. Historicaly it was Ok for single led MJ-808, but now we are loosing there more and more as we are raising the power.

Unfortunately I don't know which connector should be good enough. I only know it should have small resistance, should be waterproof and easy to use (as already pointed out using it in the dark).

If there is anyone in contact with Hank Lee, he might help us with suggestions. I think our goal has to be high enouh to last some time which means currents up to 10A. Of course we would get bulkier connectors. Waterproofed Deans connectors would be fine, but probably to big. We need to find something in between. I don't think connectors pointed out by Ian and Offroad above would help us. They are internaly still the same.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Probably Lupine has good enough connectors. I don't know the name of the type but I know it is possible to bye similar from electronics shops here in Sweden.

On this page there are some pictures...
WindInMyFace: Some Things Are Worth the Weight - Lupine Lights For Cycling


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Appel said:


> Probably Lupine has good enough connectors. I don't know the name of the type but I know it is possible to by similar from electronics shops here in Sweden.
> 
> On this page there are some pictures...
> WindInMyFace: Some Things Are Worth the Weight â€" Lupine Lights For Cycling


Oh, that's what the TrustFire and FandyFire clones are based on. Scarey that the clones come only with single cables in comparison to those beefy Lupines. Wonder how the originals are soldered in, if the boards are different in that respect. (New MagicShine Eagle F3 also uses two cable system, dunno whether it has hit the market though.)

Edit: Huh, see that the Lupines use XP-G R5, not XM-L2. So they'd be less power-hungry than the clones, guess that's at least partly why their rating in Lumens is reportedly lower - wonder if Lupine went with the XP-G R5 for the superior color? Hear that those emitters are White White White, anybody here can verify? (In contrast, TrustFire 7X Cree clone is Cool White XM-L2 T6, 7500-8300K!)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Appel said:


> I have had a KD light lying around that I have not used since I have other lamps I like better.
> 
> I wanted to test some warmer tint, so I ordered a driver with 3C leds from KD...
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you like the new "neutral" boards. Tonight I decided to tinker with my KD2 duo clone to see how easy it will be to switch out the boards. Luckily, the hex bolts under the lamp are 1.5mm and that is the smallest hex I have.

Like what was pointed out to me, the rest comes apart quite easily. Unfortunately, the areas of contact for the emitter board are very small, just two triangular posts where the boards screw down to the lamp body. While not the ideal situation at least the screws make sure the contact is very tight and heat does seem to reach the outside lamp body very fast.

The replacement "neutral board" and driver should be pretty easy to switch. From what I can tell, the driver is identical to the original. The LED's on both the original and replacement are XM-L2. All I have to do is solder on the power cord and I'm done, for the most part.

I say,"for the most part", because I wish I could do more to increase the LED board's thermal contact. I have some ideas but I need to be able to remove whatever I do in case I wish to switch optics or switch boards again. Anyone with ideas please feel free to comment.

Looks like I'm going to need to buy that "third hand tool" to do the soldering on the driver. I know that Radio Shack has them but they want a lot of money for something so small.

Anyway, I'm in no hurry. I got an email from Gearbest today telling me that my payment ( for the SSX3-"Neutral" ) has been processed and will ship out within a couple days. I figure in 16-18 days I should have it. When I get it no doubt there will be 8" of snow on the ground. If I'm lucky enough not to have snow I will take both lamps out for a test run, cold be damned.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

@Cat-man-do
It is really simple to get inside the KD light and remove then driver board and the led board. You can take everything out of the lamphouse and you don't have to fiddle with things inside the house.
I have very limited soldering skills so I didn't change the wires between the driver and the led board to thicker ones. But I manage to solder on the power cord (magic shine type bought from magicshine.de). 
The 3C tint feels much more cosy. I have never liked the cold white colors. Now with the 3C tint everything feels more cosy and almost inviting out in the forest. Hard to explain, but for me this is a big improvement.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, regarding heat transfer in KD2, can you explain your ideas? I have some too.
For example, there is small gap around the PCB - about 0.1-0.2mm. Since copper is the best material for heatsinking we can widely use, I would add tiny copper sheet in that gap and solder it to the PCB. In order to solder it, you would need to file down dielectric layer on the edge. Two triangles where PCB is screwed to the housing are already without that layer. That's why heat transfer is already somewhat good. Of course adding some thermal paste on those sheets would help with heat transfer but mess it up significantly so I would add reall tiny layer of it.
Another possibility is to add small chunks of copper pipe on left and right side. Also soder it to the PCB as described above.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Glad to hear you like the new "neutral" boards. Tonight I decided to tinker with my KD2 duo clone to see how easy it will be to switch out the boards.
> 
> Looks like I'm going to need to buy that "third hand tool" to do the soldering on the driver. I know that Radio Shack has them but they want a lot of money for something so small.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in no hurry. I got an email from Gearbest today telling me that my payment ( for the SSX3-"Neutral" ) has been processed and will ship out within a couple days. I figure in 16-18 days I should have it. When I get it no doubt there will be 8" of snow on the ground. If I'm lucky enough not to have snow I will take both lamps out for a test run, cold be damned.


Soldering third hand tool:
Helping Hands with Magnetic Base


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

I had never looked that closely at the Magic Shine type connection. I see what you mean about the two thin contact points.



Appel said:


> Probably Lupine has good enough connectors. I don't know the name of the type but I know it is possible to bye similar from electronics shops here in Sweden










The Lupine connector looks like a Molex 03-06-1023 which would be paired with a 03-06-7023. I'm surprised that I don't see a rubber ring on the Lubine. Maybe it's in the male end.













The pins & plugs on that are the same dimensions as the two pin connector I linked to above. For those old computer geezers like me, they're the same size pins as the power connector for an IDE Hard Drive in a desktop computer. Any current power supply still has some of those ends on the cables.

With those connectors, the electrical contact is all the way around. I believe they're rated at up to 9 amps. Someone over DX said the MS type connectors tend to melt whenever he tries to push more than 3 amps through them.

I did notice a problem with the two pin cable. It's not polarized. Cables that have only one way to connect them are available. Some have a "key" channel, and for others the inner portion is more D shaped. Hunk Lee has the channel type connectors in white, though I didn't see the extension cables. (The description says he can get them in black.)
Waterproof Power Connector Plug 2Pin LED Cable 22CM
I suspect the Key would wear down over time. I think the D type would be better for as often as we plug & unplug.
2 Pin Led Waterproof Connector 20AGW Cable Black Male-Female

Or should we just be happy with an upgrade to a 20 AWG variant of the MS type connector?

[You don't want to know how many web pages I went through to dig up all that info. And my ADD "Ohhh, look at that shiny object" distractions didn't help either. ]


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ooh that second link looks nice! Is it worth the effort though? Probably not unless you're pushing for more than 3A or dealing with only 4.2v input. 

(Gotta laugh at your "shiny object" distractions! Sounds exactly like me researching stuff!)

-Garry


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Gary, I was thinking more along lines of telling manufacturers "this is the kind of connection we'd like to see with 20 AWG cable.

But since if I was _considering_ upgrading the battery and light head connections to 20 AWG MS type connectors, when I swap the KD driver into the Yinding, I let my mind wander onto the comments others have made about the inadequacies of the MS connection.

As another possible heat dissipation tune-up, I have an idea for back end. We could sandwich a Thermal Conductive Silicone Pad between the driver and the back. It molds to the components on the board, and would transfer heat to the back of the light. While this one is 2 mm, there's also 0.5, 1.0, and 1.5 mm versions if 2 mm is too thick. Thoughts?
GPU CPU Heatsink Cooling Thermal Conductive Silicone Pad 100mmx100mmx2mm

From the pix in the first post of this thread, I thought it had a screwed in metal wall, but I guess that's just the back side of the LED board. How about a thin sheet of copper shaped sort of like the back cap, with the "fins" pointing towards the back of the light? Get longer screws if needed.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ian, thanks to findig out those connectors. Lupine is shurely one to go if we can find good source.
About others two pin connectors I would just like to point out the pins should not make contact until correctly placed. We have to avoid accidentialy wrong polarization and short at all cost. We all know that. It is just we have to choose connetor where this can't happen accidentialy.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

MagicShine is using a new cable/connector in their Eagle F3. Swiped this from Action-LED-Lights:









The light comes with an 8 cell 8800mAh BAK battery that snaps into a mounting bracket that can velcro onto your frame or bolt down to a pair or water bottle lugs. It uses a new heavy duty 4 pin cable and plug built to handle the amperage needed to power this monster. It will run 1.6 hours at it's maximum setting.


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## lighter (Dec 23, 2014)

Lupine connector reminds me XT60 ones, widely used in RC models. 
Certainly not the same size, but similar shape. Usually yellow, but the black ones
do exist too. 
There are also smaller XT30 and larger XT90 connectors. 
The number indicates continuous ampers.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Mine came in the mail today. First impression was a positive one. Can't believe how small it is, and seems to have quite a bit of kick to it.


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## lorteti (May 29, 2011)

this light has potential to be a great light.
lightweight, bright and cheap.
with some modifications, it can work very well.

but the biggest drawback is the mode settings.
all we need for bike riding is 2 modes, high and medium.
I understand with only 2 modes is not ideal for other applications.
they should made it with 4 modes.
so I can program it as 'high-medium-high-medium' for bike riding.
I hope they add this feature to this light.

jx


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lorteti said:


> this light has potential to be a great light.
> lightweight, bright and cheap.
> with some modifications, it can work very well.
> 
> ...


Basically I'm going to disagree. There are tons of cheap Chinese lamps with just two steady modes and none of those that I've ever used ( with only a few exceptions ) had a low mode useable for anything but walking/slow-slow climbing.

A true 3-mode lamp ( 3 steady mode ) is very useable for night riding, even without the programing option. Adding the 10-level programmable sub menu just makes it even better. With the sub menu you can set the modes to any level you want >....H-M-L..or ..L-M-H..or...**M-H-H*..etc..

In the *_last example_ you can have a two mode lamp. You just need to hit high twice. Not as simple as hitting the button just once but way better than buying a lamp where someone else decides what level to set for each mode.

Now if you really want just a 2-mode programmable lamp you can buy the Gloworm X2 (v3). The GWX2 comes with both a 3-mode and a 2-mode race menu. Both have the 10-level programmable sub menu. In the two mode race menu you can basically just switch between high and low ( or whatever level you want to program in ). The two mode level also has a third ( press and hold ) sub-mode but you don't have to cycle through that while riding if you don't want to. Nice to have it though if you do. The only downside to the Gloworm lamp is turning the lamp on into the menu of your choice. That takes some practice in getting the button pushes right but once in the preferred menu you should have no problems ( for the most part ) while the lamp is on. ( For more information on the Gloworm lamps read some of the other threads or check out the Gloworm website )


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

+1 Cat. For the price this light has far the best user interface. It beats many lights with price up to $100. There is no perfect light for everyone, but this is the most close budget light to everyone needs. To me it is better than Yinding we (mostly) all love. I'm talking about user interface not the construction.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Oh! ( Continued from my last post ), I almost forgot to add; *

Another reason I like three modes over two is because while I rarely use the low while riding it still comes into play for the occasional steep hill ( where you are walking ) or for those moments when you just want to rest but still want some light going while you are sitting still.

Sure, sitting still you don't need light, agree but I've found that sometimes it pays to keep some light going, even when you're not moving. I say this because stuff can still happen while sitting still if you're back in the woods. A couple years ago while on my usual night ride I was sitting resting with my lamps off which was my usual practice at the time. Finally after the brief rest I got back on my bike and turned the bar lamp on. At that moment I immediately noticed not more than 15 ft. in front of me was my dreaded friend, _Pepe La Pew_ ( AKA la' Skunk :eekster: ).

How quaint it might had been if I had mounted my bike only to have noticed a skunk was milling around right under my feet! Lesson learned; leave a little light on while resting. Stop worrying about Big Foot and axe murderers. Your biggest worries at night are the ones you almost don't see till it's too late.


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## lorteti (May 29, 2011)

to me, 3 modes is just not user-friendly for bike riding.
I set on medium for flat road and climbing, once I go downhill or hit the trails, one push to the light, I'm on high, easy and most importantly safety.
actually it's two pushes, bar light and helmet light.
can't imagine that I have to find out the high mode from an 3 modes light.
while sitting still, I just set to medium, plenty of run-time with batteries these days.
my bar light has 10 hours of run-time in medium 500lm mode.

I'm running Exposure toro and diablo combo.
works great, but too expensive if compare to this light that is as bright.
I prefer cheap and good over expensive.
but 3 modes is just not for me and my riding style.

M-H-H mode is an acceptable compromised option.
not ideal, but acceptable, especially for this price.

jx


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Just changed my unit to neutral light. Took 5 minutes, and it's a nicer tint now.

I was going to remove the board and change the power leads, but one of the screws wasn't going to budge with a small allen key and the hex is rounded out. I would need to cut a slot in it or square it off and try micro pliers- so I figured I'd just leave it for now.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

hummm....I was thinking I'll probably do mine next week. The only thing I haven't tried to remove yet was the driver board. I guess I'll have to cross my fingers and hope I don't have the same problem.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Skied with the neutral LEDs last night. Good tint, not too warm or too blue. Thumbs up on the upgrade!



Ofroad'bent said:


> Just changed my unit to neutral light. Took 5 minutes, and it's a nicer tint now.
> 
> I was going to remove the board and change the power leads, but one of the screws wasn't going to budge with a small allen key and the hex is rounded out. I would need to cut a slot in it or square it off and try micro pliers- so I figured I'd just leave it for now.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

garrybunk said:


> This "10-step programmable driver is now available for purchase separately: https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023801 .
> 
> -Garry


As I wait for the "new" original yinding to arrive I played with this light and installed this driver because I mistakenly ordered the 4.2V version.
I removed the old driver and emitter board (sorry, don't know the correct term).
Since the new driver and board didn't have emitters on it I simply removed it and soldered the original emitter board to new driver.

The button is now green when plugged into an 8.4v battery pack, opposed to flashing red/green like it did before, and seems to work fine.
My question is...Is this ok? Am I possibly over-driving it the emitters since the new emitter board (not used) says 8.4 on it and the one I'm now using says 4.2.
Below are the parts not used.
Thanks for any help.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

upstateSC-rider said:


> My question is...Is this ok? Am I possibly over-driving it the emitters since the new emitter board (not used) says 8.4 on it and the one I'm now using says 4.2.


I *think* the 4.2 board runs the LEDs in Parallel. So its likely running that with the new driver will significantly under drive the LEDs. You should get really good battery life out of it and no thermal problems. Just not so bright. Measure the V of the driver output to check.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

znomit said:


> I *think* the 4.2 board runs the LEDs in Parallel. So its likely running that with the new driver will significantly under drive the LEDs. You should get really good battery life out of it and no thermal problems. Just not so bright. Measure the V of the driver output to check.


That explains it, checked it on high and it's right at 3V.
I know Garry mentioned a buck driver on page 2, does anyone know if I need one of those or can I re-wire it to series with what I have?
If not it seems to be fairly bright the way it is and will probably work great when riding with the kids.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just reflow the LEDS from the old board to the new board. Reflowing with a heat gun is a piece of cake! I use a cheap Harbor Freight heat gun on low with tweezers. Just add a really tiny amount of solder to the new solder pads on the board first. Oh, and snap a pic or take note of the LED orientation before you remove them so you know which way they go back on. Then check for shorts before applying power. If needed search YouTube for Reflowing LEDS with a heat gun. 

I'm surprised the parallel LEDS didn't burn up from the 8.4v driver. 

-Garry


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

garrybunk said:


> I'm surprised the parallel LEDS didn't burn up from the 8.4v driver.


Most buck drivers will happily drive less LEDs. 
I think the 4.2V under drove the LEDs too, so with the 8.4V and series board the output should double.


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## yuran (Jan 22, 2015)

Could anyone advise me to which battery pack to get for this light? I'm an avid cross country skier and if I could get 3 hours out of the light that would be great. 

Is it correct to assume that cool white would look better in the dark on snow, but neutral white would show contrast better?

Sorry for the newbness, I'll be using the light on my bike(s) as well but main usage will be headlight during winter.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm using my KD clone to commute by ski right now.
I made a few upgrades- neutral white LEDs with added thermal paste, aluminum Gopro adapter from Vancbiker, GoPro headband, Sealed cable exit with silicone.
Hunk Lee battery with Panasonic 3400maH cells, waterproofed with self-fusing silicone tape and armoured with heat-shrink.

I programmed it to go levels 1-2-4 (out of 10) for skiing. Level 1 for waxing etc, 2 is fine on flats on snow, and I pop up to 4 for downhills. I should get many hours out of the battery at those levels, probably 6-8hrs.



yuran said:


> Could anyone advise me to which battery pack to get for this light? I'm an avid cross country skier and if I could get 3 hours out of the light that would be great.
> 
> Is it correct to assume that cool white would look better in the dark on snow, but neutral white would show contrast better?
> 
> Sorry for the newbness, I'll be using the light on my bike(s) as well but main usage will be headlight during winter.


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## yuran (Jan 22, 2015)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I'm using my KD clone to commute by ski right now.
> I made a few upgrades- neutral white LEDs with added thermal paste, aluminum Gopro adapter from Vancbiker, GoPro headband, Sealed cable exit with silicone.
> Hunk Lee battery with Panasonic 3400maH cells, waterproofed with self-fusing silicone tape and armoured with heat-shrink.
> 
> I programmed it to go levels 1-2-4 (out of 10) for skiing. Level 1 for waxing etc, 2 is fine on flats on snow, and I pop up to 4 for downhills. I should get many hours out of the battery at those levels, probably 6-8hrs.


Thanks!

The Hunk Lee pack only has two cells, right?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

yuran said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The Hunk Lee pack only has two cells, right?


Yes in this case, and it's on the back of my headband.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

There are many Hunk Lee Packs. You can get whatever configuration you want 2 to 8 cells. Don't see what you want - He'll make it


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I also got a very small Li-poly battery from Hunk Lee that I plasti-dipped. It's great for commuting.


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## yuran (Jan 22, 2015)

Ian_C said:


> There are many Hunk Lee Packs. You can get whatever configuration you want 2 to 8 cells. Don't see what you want - He'll make it


Great to know, thanks! If I want maximum durability but a maximum of 4 cells - which battery from hunk offers the best quality? The 3400mah?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

The Hunk Lee packs with Sanyo, Sony or Panasonic cells will all be decent. The Panasonic 18560b have the highest capacity.

Avoid no-name cells, Ultrafire, Touchfire, etc. as the capacities listed can be outright lies.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Battery packs built with the Samsung 2600 offer the best price/performance ratio at the moment. They also have a more even discharge curve. The Panasonics give you the highest capacity but at a significantly higher cost per mAh.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ian_C said:


> The Panasonics give you the highest capacity but at a significantly higher cost per mAh.


There's one more difference. While most of the other reputable manufacturers implemented new high-capacity cells by increasing charge voltage, Panasonic used opposite way: lowering minimum discharge level. This allow to use "old style" 4.2V-per-cell chargers, but actual benefit in the light may be questionable. Many single-cell torches are too dim at 2.5V, or switch itself off altogether. Another example is Yinding bike light, where driver operates normally down to the 6,4V level...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> ....Another example is Yinding bike light, where driver operates normally down to the 6,4V level...


Yes you are right. This is about the sum of the leds Vf (forwarding voltage). Below that it fells out of regulation and starts dimming as the voltage goes down. I think it is the same with KD2 and many other 2 led lights.


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## yuran (Jan 22, 2015)

ledoman said:


> Yes you are right. This is about the sum of the leds Vf (forwarding voltage). Below that it fells out of regulation and starts dimming as the voltage goes down. I think it is the same with KD2 and many other 2 led lights.


So for my 4 cell battery pack to power a kd 2, which one do you think is better?


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

One thing that is not so good with the KD 2 light is that the lightbody sits way back on the mount. When mounted on the bar you will get blinded by the light when you stand on the bike.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yuran, I would say it depends on your preferences and ride time. Lets talk only about highest mode.

1. If you would like to have hi mode all the way almost without dimming then I would go with Sanyo 2600 wich has the highest voltage curve till the end. Dimming at the end would be short but significant. All in all run time would be up to 3 hours with new fully charged cells.

2. If you would like to have longer runtime, but somewhat dimmer at the end (last 1/3) then you should go with Panasonic. When dimming starts you probably won't notice since human eyes are adaptive. You would know it when compared to something else. Also at this stage current is declining which means less power is pulled out of the battery. This will prolong runtime at lower brigtness and safely gets you home. With Panny 3400 you should get about 4+ hours runtime with dimmed end.

Now, you don't ride all the time on hi mode, so overall runtime could be somewhat longer in both cases. If your rides lasts up to 3h I would say any batteries (Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung, Sanyo) would be good. You only have to be aware some models of Sanyo, LG and Samsung are 4.35V to get higher capacity (Sanyo 2800 and 3000 for example). I've found out LG 3000 D1 has the highest voltage curve that I could found.
See also HKJ's comparator. Make comparation at 1A since ou our packs there are 2 cells in parallel wich means 2A load and KD2 is pulling about 1.7A.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Appel said:


> One thing that is not so good with the KD 2 light is that the lightbody sits way back on the mount. When mounted on the bar you will get blinded by the light when you stand on the bike.


Is there any different with Yinding or similar? Didn't noticed that would be a problem. Well, probably I don't stand on the bike


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Or of course you could change the angle the light slightly so it didn't hit you in the eyes when you stand. Another option is to make a very small hood, and give the KD a profile something like the UniqueFire ME-13.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

I just noticed that the Yinding Light Head Only deal from GearBest with the coupon code (in Cool White) is less expensive than the KD 2. It's priced about half way between the Cool KD and the Neutral KD. The Neutral Yinding is about $3 more than the neutral KD 2


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Knowing the difference in internals of both lights (especially related to heat dissipation), it's hard to imagine someone will prefer KD version!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

-Archie- said:


> Knowing the difference in internals of both lights (especially related to heat dissipation), it's hard to imagine someone will prefer KD version!


The UI is better on the KD, despite the sieve-like waterproofing and weak heat sinking. I like the ability to program it.

Still hoping to do a driver transplant on the Yinding for the best of both worlds, once it arrives.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

If it works we'll call it the, "K-ding". :thumbsup:


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

It should work, as long as the drivers are of identical dimensions. But for me, existing modes of Yinding are totally satisfactory, so no need to swap the driver.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

upstateSC-rider said:


> As I wait for the "new" original yinding to arrive I played with this light and installed this driver because I mistakenly ordered the 4.2V version.
> I removed the old driver and emitter board (sorry, don't know the correct term).
> Since the new driver and board didn't have emitters on it I simply removed it and soldered the original emitter board to new driver.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I know I'm late to chime in on this but I thought I'd add some comments.;

The original lamp you owned was using a 4.2 volt battery and driver. If so it was only capable of supplying 4.2 volts to the load. This meant the 2 LED's ( the load ) had to be a parallel configuration with the same voltage across both emitters. The real question here is , "How many amps were going through the outputs of the original driver? Whatever that output was it was being split two ways as it traveled through the load circuit ( the two parallel LED's ).

Now you have a new driver set to operate within a higher voltage range and as such the new driver has the ability to drive one voltage drop alone or two voltage drops in series. If you are still running the two emitters in parallel you have only one voltage drop but are splitting the current between the two LEDs. This should not be a problem.

Now if the new driver is only providing ( lets say ) 2.4A to the output you will only get 1.2A to each led ( in parallel ). This means the lamp will not be so bright. On the other hand if the LED's were in series the full 2.4A would pass through each led and the output would be much brighter. I don't know what the new driver is outputting current wise but when I take mine apart I will likely test it just to know. Not to mention I don't know what the configuration of the LED's are on the lamps I have using 8.4 volts. Of course the next time I take mine apart I'll have that answer as well just by testing the voltage of the output under load. If it reads 6 or more volts it is a series configuration. If it reads close to 3 volts it is a parallel configuration.

Different drivers are spec'd to operate differently so unless you know the specifications of the driver being used you would need to do the measurements of voltage and current output to know what's really going on within the circuit. If you have a multimeter it's all basic stuff as long as you have some basic knowledge of electronics.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> The UI is better on the KD, despite the sieve-like waterproofing and weak heat sinking. I like the ability to program it.
> 
> Still hoping to do a driver transplant on the Yinding for the best of both worlds, once it arrives.


I've meaured and published pictures of both somewhere (probably in the Yinding thread) and they are identical in size. Also holes and wires are on the same places. I'm going to do swap, too. Probably will do also resistor mod with R500 over R110.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> I've measured and published pictures of both somewhere (probably in the Yinding thread) and they are identical in size. Also holes and wires are on the same places. I'm going to do swap, too. *Probably will do also resistor mod with R500 over R110*.


When you do this send me a PM to let me know how it all worked out. Thanks in advance.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I hope will remebmer that  If calculated it correctly this should give about 2.77A to the leds at max. Since I will have 10 level driver I can lower highest mode to level 8 or so and use level 10 only when really needed. Will see how it turns out with heating. Thankfuly XM-L2 leds are more sturdy and can stand more heat than older XM-L. Still I can remove R500+R110 and replace it with R100 to be the same as stock Yinding.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Mudder® CREE XM-L L2 2-LED 1200LM 3-Mode Flashing 10-Level Brightness Adjustable 


- 3-Mode Flashing 10-Level Brightness Adjustable Headlamp
- Perfect fit for outdoor sports, such as camping, traveling, hiking.
- Adjustable headband
- Full capacity 4400mAh battery pack for long time using
- Easy to install and use.

"Lighting mode instruction: When it is turn-off, press the switch for 3 seconds to turn on the Strobe Mode, press the switch again to change from strobe mode to the 3-mode constant output mode (high/mid/low). Long press the switch for 6 seconds, you can see the indicator light flickers with yellow light, now you enters 10-level brightness adjustable mode."

But for $22.50 each shipped to my door by tomorrow evening, I decided it was worth a try. I'll probably pick up a neutral white Yinding or SolarStorm X3 once the Fenix BA4C 2-cell pack is available.

These are my first riding lights outside of strapping a 600 lumen torch to my helmet, so I should be impressed either way.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

PHeller, read up in the thread for how to improve this light.
It's not waterproof or well heat-sinked so you need to add some thermal paste and silicone sealant.
Otherwise not a bad light and a good deal.

You can also get a neutral version from KD.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

PHeller said:


> Mudder® CREE XM-L L2 2-LED 1200LM 3-Mode Flashing 10-Level Brightness Adjustable
> 
> 
> These are my first riding lights outside of strapping a 600 lumen torch to my helmet, so I should be impressed either way.


Congrats, this looks like a killer deal even if the included batteries turn out to be total crap. 10-Mode, XM-L2 and TIG, delivery from within the USA, a rare find on Amazon. Hope you get a lot of good use out of 'em.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow! Nice find! 

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

The battery arrangement on the light that PHeller posted looks interesting. I wonder if that pack can be disassembled and the cells replaced. Looks like some type of hardshell case?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Per my measurments the same battery pack I've got from Kaidomain should be quite good with 4100mAh (if has the same cells, of course). This is not the best, but very good for the money. I would not try to replace the cells since the case is glued and the capacity is reasonable. 

Based on my light review 4100mAh/1700mA = 2.4h, so you should be safe to run more than 2 hours on high mode or 3+ hours combined.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Seller replied back, sealed case, so I'd probably mangle it trying to pull it apart, and the tint is 6000K, or cool white. 

Curious, do we lose lumens when we go to a warmer tint on the same emitter?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

PHeller said:


> Curious, do we lose lumens when we go to a warmer tint on the same emitter?


Yes.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

So as we go warmer we need more emitters, or more power to them. 

I wish the cloners would do a 3x Gemini/Glowworm clone, as I don't care for the SolarStorm X3's chintzy look.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

PHeller said:


> So as we go warmer we need more emitters, or more power to them.
> 
> I wish the cloners would do a 3x Gemini/Glowworm clone, as I don't care for the SolarStorm X3's chintzy look.


According to ledoman from an earlier post, the NW XM-L2 U2 should be about equal in brightness to the CW. That said, the "NW" KD MJ-880 clone I recently recieved, which I suspect is really CW or what might otherwise list just as White, seems a bit brighter than the NW Yinding. But IIRC the circuitry on the latter is lower, 2.4A versus the KD at 2.8A.

Agree, the SolarStorms are about as fugly as can be. Advantage though, with corrected thermal paths inside, all those fins might be of some use to dissipate heat. Anyway, imagine that if you rub away the hideous logos and stuff (alcohol on a cotton swab will usually suffice) and spray laquer the face and back plates with gloss black, they won't look so bad. Well, that's what I'm planning for the SSX3 I ordered, if USPS ever delivers it.

There are some other very attrative 3X XM-L2 clones on the market, just none yet that I know of in NW, as is currently available with this KD 2X.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> According to ledoman from an earlier post, the NW XM-L2 U2 should be about equal in brightness to the CW. That said, the "NW" KD MJ-880 clone I recently recieved, which I suspect is really CW or what might otherwise list just as White, seems a bit brighter than the NW Yinding. But IIRC the circuitry on the latter is lower, 2.4A versus the KD at 2.8A.


Generaly PHeller is correct. More warmer tints of same led type produce less lumens since the overlayed phosphor is thicker and less fotons manage to escape from the (blue) diode. 
The same class or bin (U2 for ex.) should have about the same amount of lumens = amount of light (not the brightness!) regardless of tint. Still the rule above is valid if you want to be very exact, but the difference is minor.

The brightness human eyes see and people are most reffered to is dependable of optics, beam profile, the color of the object, the material the object is made of, humidity, temperature, etc... it is measured in lux and means throw in another words. Brightness represents the amout of the light it is reflected back to the eyes, while lumens means the amount of light sent out.

So you can't compare just like that. Just give the very same led bigger reflector and all of the sudden it will becom more bright. This is because more light is directed into central spot. Lumens will stay all the same (if we don't take into account the reflectors looses).

In the context above you can't compare KD 880 and Yinding or KD2 lights directly. They have different optics, heat dissipation and drivers. They can have very same leds, but you'll get different results in a different times of operation. Definitvely KD880 would look brighter since it has more concentrated light and far better heat dissipation (at least potentionaly).


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks again for the correction, ledoman. Of course I meant lumens not brightness, D'oh!

BTW, have you disassembled your NWKD 880 clone yet? Don't have the right tool to remove the face plate from mine but noticed that it doesn't seem to heat up very evenly, and certainly not as fast as the tiny little Yinding. But the output remains steady on High, even without a fan on it, while the Yinding steps down pretty quick. Wonder whether the internals are any different from the other versions of the light head.

Back to this KD2: Do you think that an aluminum mount like Vancbiker's could significantly help expel waste heat from the lamp body, or is the thermal pathway just not there? Because would be interested in the NW version you reviewed in preference to the Yinding, if we can't be guaranteed about the tint on that one. Thanks!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

About NW KD 880 clone, I've teared apart only front panel to see the leds. It has similar led PCB like Yinding or KD2 - ie. in one piece, but thickier I think. Thermal compound looks to be applied only in the middle. I've used some triangle file to unscrew it.
It has much more mass to be heated if you compare to Yinding, so it takes some time. Heat transfer from the leds might be somewhat worse. 

With KD2 I would first try to improve heat transfer from leds PCB to the housing. I'm going to try it in the future. First thing you should apply some thermal compound at the copper surface where it sticks to the hosing. Next I would improve it by adding some copper sheet in the gap between leds PCB and housing including using messy thermal compound. Better yet I would scratch dielectric layer to the copper on the PCB edges and solder it to the copper sheets. That way you would enlarge conducting surface significantly. If you can I would use also some solid copper on the round edges, but it would need quite some work to do. Maybe if you can find some chunks of copper pipe or similar..... I have some kind of mod in my to do list for the future.

At last aluminium mount would also help somewhat if it would fit very tight to the light. But as said, first you have to transfer the heat from the leds to the housing as much as possible.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman said:


> ... Heat transfer from the leds might be somewhat worse.
> 
> With KD2... first you have to transfer the heat from the leds to the housing as much as possible.


Thanks ledoman, that was what I figured.

Still, heartening to see NW XM-L2 appearing in more and more light heads. If only the manufacturers wouldn't cheap out quite so much on the internals, would be willing to pay more for better thermal pathways. (But not much more. )


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> But the output remains steady on High, even without a fan on it, while the Yinding steps down pretty quick.


Are you referring to the latest Yinding ordered from GearBest?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Are you referring to the latest Yinding ordered from GearBest?


Yep. The NW.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Ok, thanks! I haven't tested its thermal protection yet. How it looks like? Reduces brightness to the minimum or medium level? Is there any flicker or the like?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> Are you referring to the latest Yinding ordered from GearBest?


It's not suprisingly and I think it doesn't matter which Yinding it was. The fact is KD 880 clone has much more mass and more surface to dissipate the heat.

And 880 clone can be improved even more to use about 30% more power just adding R330 resistor over existing one and adding alu inserts under led PCB. Adding higher inserts would elevate led PCB to make it easy use of TIR lenses intead of reflectors.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> Ok, thanks! I haven't tested its thermal protection yet. How it looks like? Reduces brightness to the minimum or medium level? Is there any flicker or the like?


Now if we are start talking more about Yinidng we should change the thread unless we compare thermal protection to the KD2. This includes myself


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, sorry for hijacking.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Ok, thanks! I haven't tested its thermal protection yet. How it looks like? Reduces brightness to the minimum or medium level? Is there any flicker or the like?


Pretty sure it was to the minimum level, but a bit confusing because of the way it dims down between modes even when passing through Off, so I had to cycle all the way around a few times trying to figure out what was going on. Possibly goes back up at least to Medium if not High when cycled like that; again hard to tell because in all three modes it is too bright to look at, am still seeing spots a week later! And yes, it did start to flicker a bit too, and step down earlier, the more I tried it. Wasn't really testing the Yinding for thermal management at the time, just trying to get decent beam shots but this took long enough for me to notice the step down.

ledoman, know you said the KD 2 also stepped down automatically when it got hot, did you notice it flickering too beforehand?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Let's move Yinding-related talks to more appropriate place:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ing-yd-2xu2-found-941540-43.html#post11752512


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*KD2 Duo Clone; Neutral board installed*

Finally got around to modding the original KD2 ( Duo clone ) with the neutral emitter board/driver. I also installed a MS type connector ( with shorter wire ) so everything is compatible with all my batteries.

So far, everything seems to work. First thing I noticed when comparing the beam tint is that it is indeed different from the cooler binned Gloworm lights that I own. After that I compared the KD2 with both my neutral led torch and the new Solarstorm X3 ( with neutral LEDs ) I just received just last week.

At first glance there seemed to be a difference in tints but after comparing with the CW Gloworm X2 I own the two neutrals are not that much different. I figure when comparing beam shots on a wall there are going to be noticeable differences especially when you consider one is a reflector based 3 emitter lamp and the KD2 is using optics and only two emitters.

I also did a test in my dark short hallway and the two neutral lamps seem to blend very well together. I'd think about going for another trail test but right now I can hear the wind howling outside and the temps are rapidly dropping. I expect in a couple hours the temps will be in the lower 20'sF and with wind chill it will feel like below O°F. I can deal with the cold but I hate high winds.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my last post: *

I happened to notice that when reattaching the emitter board that the sides of the board come real close to the sides of the lamp. Since the only thermal contact is with the two middle triangular post ( where the emitter board screws in ) I've been thinking it might be possible to add metal stripping to the sides of the board to aid in the heat sinking.

The KD2 has been compared very much with the new release of the Yinding sold by Gearbest with the Yinding having the superior thermal contact area for the emitter board. Still, I'm amazed that the two triangular post used on the KD2 seems to do a very good job in transferring heat to the outer body. While testing the KD2 I notice that it heats up very fast. That said at some point I'll likely take mine apart again...well...just because I can and I don't think it will be really hard to do. I have lots of thin aluminum and copper 
stripping so I should be able to get this to work.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> *Continued from my last post: *
> 
> I happened to notice that when reattaching the emitter board that the sides of the board come real close to the sides of the lamp. Since the only thermal contact is with the two middle triangular post ( where the emitter board screws in ) I've been thinking it might be possible to add metal stripping to the sides of the board to aid in the heat sinking.
> 
> ...


I've already wrote about it somewhere. You should use copper strips, scratch (sand down) dieletric layer on the edges down to the copper layer. Then solder copper strips to that layer on the on both curved edges to fit tight to the housing. Adding some thermal paste would mess it significantly, but heat transfer should be also significantly improved. I hope you got it.

Heat transfer on those triangulars is good because you have plain copper layer to which the leds base are soldered. In another words you have direct thermal transfer (like Noctigons, just less mass)). This is much better than Yinding up to the point where KD2 has small contact area (copper triangles). Adding some copper as described above should put heat transfer maybe even better than Yinding.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

What is the difference here? The price differs but I don't understand why. What am I missing?

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023801

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Appel said:


> What is the difference here? The price differs but I don't understand why. What am I missing?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023801
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807


The more expensive one has LEDs on it.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Dooohhh! (now I feel stupid)

Thanks znomit!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hopefully you guys are still around and can help out:

Looking possibly at this light (tossing around a couple options) which besides case having big fins appears to be the same as the "reviewed" KD 2 (yinding clone).

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023818

BUt trying to sort reflector/optics. Ordered Angel Eye single for helmet, so want to set this up for bars.

Ya noobish questions I apologize, but figuring out best set up options for optics/reflectors/lens is still beyond me yet, gotta get a few to play with.

thnx


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Not shure if I understand you correctly. You are wondering if this Mj880 clone from KD is good for bar light? I've already modified a few and this particular one with neutral white is in the mod queue, too. 
So far I can tell it is great bar light if you can mod it with 10+25deg TIR lenses. Since it has more mass than Yinding and if you improve heat transfer you can easily add about 30% more current to the leds. If you want to stay in 2 led light segment this can be powerfull enough to compete with some 3 leds lights and don't have to worry about heating problems. It is one of the lights I'm using often.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think mate is thinking about an upgrade from reflectors to the optics. He needs to use thicker gasket or add some copper spacers behind the LED plates to push the LEDs a little out so that optic will fit firmly without issues.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023818


tigris, that is lighthead is a vague clone of the MagicShine MJ-880 and not related to the Yinding. It employs OP reflectors rather than optics and its lenses are significantly wider across. As mentioned before, there are drop in optics for this lamp. Here's the related thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/k-d-2-x-xml-mj880-clone-847346.html

Only sort of trouble I can forsee is this new 2X Neutral White Cree XM-L2 version has the face plate secured with triangular set screws. Dunno if the key is available anywhere retail, seems no one here has opened one up yet to post shots of the insides. I myself am hopeful that this model might have returned near to the original quality of the XM-L T6 that KD's CW XM-L2 U2 revision had sacrificed, both because of the differentiating set screws and how well the case dissipates heat. Sorry but I keep forgetting to stop in to Ace Hardware, they'd be the one place that might have the proper key so I can tear this sucker apart. :madman:

Anyway, the $22 Mudder on Amazon is the full package of this here KD 2X solo light head, you can see part of the unique battery pack in one of the pics. Of course you'd have to order an additional $13 worth of Amazonia to get the same free shipping as on KD, but it would certainly be a lot faster! 

Thanks again to ledoman for his comprehensive review. :thumbsup:


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

andychrist said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/k-d-2-x-xml-mj880-clone-847346.html
> 
> Only sort of trouble I can forsee is this new 2X Neutral White Cree XM-L2 version has the face plate secured with triangular set screws. Dunno if the key is available anywhere retail, seems no one here has opened one up yet to post shots of the insides. I myself am hopeful that this model might have returned near to the original quality of the XM-L T6 that KD's CW XM-L2 U2 revision had sacrificed, both because of the differentiating set screws and how well the case dissipates heat. Sorry but I keep forgetting to stop in to Ace Hardware, they'd be the one place that might have the proper key so I can tear this sucker apart. :madman:


I opened it. It has the same internals as those late kd2 clones with philips screws. (emitters on one star-plate, and holes thru body)


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

bhocewar said:


> I opened it. It has the same internals as those late kd2 clones with philips screws. (emitters on one star-plate, and holes thru body)


D'oh! Oh, well, could you please tell me where to find the triangular key for it?

Thanks!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> Only sort of trouble I can forsee is this new 2X Neutral White Cree XM-L2 version has the face plate secured with triangular set screws. Dunno if the key is available anywhere retail, seems no one here has opened one up yet to post shots of the insides.





andychrist said:


> D'oh! Oh, well, could you please tell me where to find the triangular key for it?


It is not unusual type of head: such drivers are typically included in most "all-in-one" toolbox / bit sets...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've simply used tip of a small triangular file ;-)

And we should get back to OP and move discussion to the thread mentioned above.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Some Help with heat on the yinding clones (mines the securitying named KD 2 from amazon). Gather anything KD 2 (securitying versions of KD 2 models included as thats what I have, same thing) this will be useful for.

Stole 22ga wire from removed SS battery case harness and used it for driver to emitter, that was an instant help. guessing 26/28ga wire used stock..

Didnt have copper available to me, sucks living in small town, probably order a sheet in at some point, but I had aluminum sheets in the garage, 0.65mm thick.

In my attempts to attach small copper plate to top of emitter disc (or oval, but dont even try to remove emitter board, that aluminum disc is the base) ended in the emitters desoldering, OOPS!!!! Was able to fix since they only moved a little. SO needed a new plan, soldering to that backing plate wasnt working. And SO LITTLE room to work with inside this thing.

Plan B: ALuminum sheet cut and bent to attach to back of plate and press against outer casing (with help of thermal paste). Also elongated lower hole in emitter plate so upper and lower screws could be installed. Not sure WTF there, case had threaded holes top and bottom but only used one cause other didnt line up.

Exposed aluminum at mounting holes on emitter plate (front side) and enough paste to provide paste contact for screws inside threaded hole when assembled.

Took 2 tries, didnt account for depth the back of the housing went inside, had to trim adapter plate where it met the casing so back plate would go in.

Finished product:





Verdict: played with light on high with a it of cool breeze (light just in my hand) for a couple minutes, no thermal shutdown or anything, slight loss when emitters got heated up all the way (seems normal) but very slight. Case took a bit to get warm, never got hot. Usually took 20sec roughly for thermal to kick in and loose high, 2 mins + and was still going while i just stood there shining it around my yard. And instead of front of housing getting stupid hot quickly, entire case slowly warmed up. Not bad for a noob to these new emitter systems.

Mount is just temporary to play with it on bars around town/commuting. Itll be used for ss x3 when it gets here from GB. Getting Vanc's new gorpro heatsink/mount adapter, new optics (narrow down flood, increase throw) and be my helmet light. With his mount combined with mods, I may be able to push more power outta this, especially if I change my mod plate to copper...?...


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Plan B: ALuminum sheet cut and bent to attach to back of plate and press against outer casing (with help of thermal paste).


Brilliant! This is most elegant thermal solution I've seen for this light so far. :thumbsup:



> Not sure WTF there, case had threaded holes top and bottom but only used one cause other didnt line up.


China. No warranty for anything, but cheap & could be fixed in most cases...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great simple mod! One idea which I keep suggesting (which I have yet to personally try but planned to try and this same light) is "potting" the inside with a mixture of silicon carbide and "duct seal" as now done by some over at BLF. I think I will steal your idea as well, but I do have copper sheeting to use.

-Garry


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Garry, is there a thread anywhere that details HOW to pot the driver?

I've heard of this term before, but I don't know the method of actually doing it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I thought it was covered in that link, but here's another link that may help (though the O.P. used JB Weld instead of duct seal which would result in a permanent

I think you basically mix the two components together to get a proper consistency and apply it. Some people mix different grits of the silicon carbide. It's not just for potting drivers, but also to fill in for lack of heatsinking as well. There are also some tips about coating things with Carnuba Wax to make it easier to remove the potting concoction. I think the duct seal / silicon carbide is removable easily enough, but in the KD2 it will be a pain to pot it, then decide to switch optics, repot, decide to switch again, etc. . . I would do tigris99's idea and run without the potting at first until you decide to stick with certain optics.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok Gary this sounds stupid but give me a run down on this "potting" thing. Not sure wth that's all about.

And I read that jb weld is as good as thermal paste????? (ur link). Find that hard to believe but if its remotely true I know how to make a "mold" to used jb weld to expand disc edges to case. Need to research more.

I am going to play with plate mod a bit see if I can get more contact area. I'm trying to go with simple, able to disassemble yet insanely effective. I'll update as I improve on the plate


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Ok Gary this sounds stupid but give me a run down on this "potting" thing. Not sure wth that's all about.


Ok, but I'm no expert; I haven't even tried it yet myself!



tigris99 said:


> And I read that jb weld is as good as thermal paste????? (ur link). Find that hard to believe but if its remotely true I know how to make a "mold" to used jb weld to expand disc edges to case. Need to research more.


A user has been famous over at BLF for using "what works" as opposed to spending (i.e. wasting) lots of time and money on doing things that are either no benefit or either extremely little benefit. He has proved himself right numerous times. I think what it boils down to is that JB Weld will do just fine for heat transfer for our purposes and it's not worth chasing down the highest thermal conductivity compound just to get the heat down a degree or two. We're not overclocking CPU's to their limit here!



tigris99 said:


> I am going to play with plate mod a bit see if I can get more contact area. I'm trying to go with simple, able to disassemble yet insanely effective. I'll update as I improve on the plate


Yes, keep us updated and of course we want to see pics!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok so I have NW driver from kd on the way... So im gonna experiment with this emitter board. I always have jb weld on hand first off, secondly was able to order 0.40mm 6x6 copper sheet off amazon.

Plan: Replace mod aluminum plate with copper. But continue the contact around the case much further. then since I can't solder to emitter plate, well try jbweld. Defeats ability to separate mod plate from emitter plate but if it helps then its worth it


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't know that you need to JB Weld them together. As long as they press tightly together thermal compound should suffice. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Too big of gap between emitter plate and case and gap isn't even all around.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok with ledomans help got sorted how to increase output, mouser has everything so I can experiment if I want lol. Now just waiting for everything to arrive (stuff from mouser, copper from amazon, driver etc from KD).


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So me being me, I decided to try something.... and response I got was good, well see how it happens in the next few days but I may be needing a couple of you guys as well. Those of use that are fans of KD 2s will be happy with this. Win win for all sides.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Copper arrived, also have a couple other things on the way. Found emitters inside the US, think i can get a new aluminum plate made at work that holds 16mm stars instead of the normal plate.... and cost me nothing for a couple of them. Ill start on copper sheet mod tonight and get pics up as soon as its done. Looks like I might order the Mudder version off amazon too so I have parts to expiriment with further, gonna try to push one of these to a full 3A and have it fuction and not overheat constantly.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Are you doing a pots/hintsinking mod?

If so, could you document what you do, what materials etc? 

I'm curious what I would need to do to cool these things down.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

PHeller said:


> Are you doing a pots/hintsinking mod?
> 
> If so, could you document what you do, what materials etc?
> 
> I'm curious what I would need to do to cool these things down.


Look back into the thread a tad, already did a cheap/quick mod wiht what i had around. 0.60mm aluminum sheet, cut a little piece with metal shears and such, added some thermal paste in key areas and helped ALOT. Plus changing wire from driver to emitters to 22ga helps a bit too.

But ya Im doing a version 1.2 first. Using 0.40m copper sheet, making contact patch on case bigger. The "quick, cheap and easy" cooling. Pot set-up is coming after, its not such an easy DIY project. But its not so much for heat as ability to change emitters at will (with copper direct thermal led stars) and because I am going to up the drive current to 3000mA, so will need better heat managment.

All that said very much doing pics etc for those that want to tinker with it, both v 2.0 and then the mod for the use normal stars. Tryinig to decide currently as 20mm stars will fit case perfectly, of going that route (easier) with full size backing plate or making a plate with pots for 16mm stars to sit in.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You can try it with 3A, but the housing is to small to disipate the heat regardless of internal improvements and can't run for longer time. You'll experience higher voltage drop and premature fall back to safe mode. By my opinion it is useless to go that high, even contrary you might loose. But shure you can try and report it back. 

Don't forget to measure voltage at the driver during runtime at drivers Vcc (wires input). I would suggest you to solder two thin wires in paralell to the power input at the driver and connect it to your DMM. That way you would see at what voltages things happens. Also measuring temperatures somewhere would be nice to see how thermal protection works.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK heres where im at:

3a, AINT HAPPENING. The new v 2.0 thermal transfer plate, WORKS WONDERS. Emitters with just something in the way of air moving had initial fall back on high, but minimal, just enough to notice then just hung out for over 10 mins. no problems, no noticeable change in output. Thats stock. And Case got pretty dang warm,lol. But heats up nice and even and slowly now. High will hold as long as your moving. But this will only work at stock driver output, any higher I dont think itll hold, as LEDOMAN SAID!!! Was a fun idea but this sucker is just too small and light weight.

BTW, phone broke, waiting on new screen, will get finished pics and draw new diagram on the copper sheet to show what I did. Its not as "clean" as I wanted (may re-cut a new plate, will allow for progress pics) but works like a champ. FFS copper can conduct heat!!!

So next up, which will be late next week depending on how my elbow feels (minor scope surgery on it monday) Ledomans driver mod, up output to 2770mA. Ill have Vancs mount by then so that will hopefully suck up the extra heat. I hope it does for running a helmet light at least (spot optics not on high all the time).

And im current on Cool white emitters, not sure how XM-L2 U2 3c tint versions i have on the way (US supplier ) will effect heat (or the KD NW driver/emitter combo I have coming just not sure when). Beleive Im on either XML t6 or XM-L2 T6 (no freaking clue cause amazon version makes no sense on what is specced, dont know how to tell).

Ledo: Temps I can do, my DMM has thermocouple for temp read out. I plan to do readings stock (no plate), plate, and so on. taking readings outside between the fins closest point to emitters and an internal temp at emitter backing plate. As for Voltage tests.....dunno about all that. Im not a pro, my DMM aint fancy (cost me $25) but who knows I might just for learning experience. But after I get good cells, using ones from disassembled included pack put into SS case atm.

Im just trying to get this thing to best it can be without spending alot. Not on one head, but im debating on doing something mildly crazy. Get to that later.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*XM-L v XM-L2*















tigris, the one here labeled XM-L _is_ XM-L. Other is XM-L*2*. XM-L2 stars are still just labeled XM-L though.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Tigriss, did you try the stock battery that came with the light at all? I haven't had much opportunity to experiment but I remember someone (ledoman comes to mind) that had decent results with it (may have been around 4000mah)

Just curious as I was snowed in for a couple months and just got bit in the Achilles breaking up a dog fight. Looks like I need to live vicariously through you for a few weeks


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

stock pack did fine first night, didnt do any tests or anything. After that night I opened up the stock pack and removed the cells, use them in my solarstorm case for this light now. In the process of running them across my balance charger now to even them all out, but stock out of the box with simple charge, they held up for over an hour on medium and could have gone longer no problem. Protection test on the cases on a XML single emitter cheapy I have, it took almost 3 hrs leaving that light on high to drain the pack/trip protection. And it had already been used a bit running temperature tests on first version thermal transfer plate. Id say youd get a good 2 hours run time out of the box not being able to balance it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK Test results, numbers this time:

Sorry no pics, camera charger cord MIA and phone LCD didnt show up today. But I head off redoing the copper plate.

Did an internal test, top of case where copper thermal plate meets outta case. Max temp for 1 min no air moving ( this was after 10-15 mins running on high already) temp pushed to 165F, 73C (converted cause DMM if F only). Outer case temp couldnt get an accurate reading for some reason. NOW THIS WAS LITTLE AIR MOVING, maybe 5mph from a crappy fan. And rising to these temps took 15+ mins on high with poor air movement.

Never a thermal shut down at all while i was figuring out how to place thermocouple for my dmm. Gets pretty toasty in the hand though lol.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Great work tigris99!!! 

When you have solved the thermal problems with the KD2, can you fix the big hole in the bottom of the light as well ;-)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

well "fixing" the thermal problems is not something that will ever happen. This thing has limitations. As of right now I have done all that can be somewhat easily done to make heat issue far better, Not perfect but case size limits what you can do. KD is now working on helping out the heat issues so wont require mods to do what Ive done.

But I plan on going far further in an attempt to quickly get heat away from emitters to outer case, hopefully it will be enough to keep emitter temp down, thus less overall thermal buildup in the case. Well see though. And of course and aluminum mount, and better that attached to aluminum bars (no rubber in the way) will take care of the rest. Just wish they maed an aluminum base for gopro helmet straps, but think Vancs mount will do well enough alone.

As for the hole, right now I need it there, but hot glue gun will fix it when im done tinkering with this lighthead  Probably find some form of small rubber grommet that would work at a decent hardware store as another option. Ill look at ace while im there (lost one of the case set screws and need a drill bit) see if i run accross anything.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Pics:

Copper plate: tried to solder tips of coper ring strip to copper plate, messed up its connection to case. Hense the need to redo it, cut the plate itself a tad small but still works like a CHARM so may not bother right now



Pic of my temp sensor going into case as I had light mounted on my bike stand for testing.



bunch of "upgrades" here tomorrow. will decide on what im going to do exactly being the new "toys" I got this weekend. Father had portable drill press for standard hand drills he didnt need, got some bits for making "pills", and the list goes on. Got alotta work to do once elbow is up to it again.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

if I wanted to use this light as a handlebar light(I have an old magicshine 808 for the helmet), should I get different optics for it or can I use it as is? 
I saw the mudder version on amazon for $21.99 and couldn't resist


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

You could leave as is, since is still wider than any MJ-808. But if you would like even wider beam you can change lenses later without much effort.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

This KD clone has a similar beam to the Yinding, which I find kinda spotty for climbing mode. Dances around along with the motion of the bars so you don't always have light right in front of you. Helmet lamp can help but there's the danger it will reflect off your bars and mud guard when aimed close in, resulting glare would kill your vision. From experience have found an elliptical diffusing lens or two on the bars to work best in this situation. LEDDNA offers three different patterns: 10ºx45º, 20ºx60º, and 30ºx 60º. Dunno yet which lens/lenses might be most suitable but will report back after all mine arrive and have had time to compare.

Great that KD now offers this whole package in NW 3C, UI is such an advantage. Thanks again ledoman!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes UI is one of the best, no doubt. It can adjust levels to the ones most people needs.
All in all KD2 is nice light. Not perfect, but for the price (currently below $20) one of the best buys. 

Some heat dissipation mods are planned by KD. No details known yet. Might try my version soon.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My kd2 is far from spotty imo lol. But that's me. 

Got vancs gopro adapter, resistors should finally show up, so ill do more tests


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> My kd2 is far from spotty imo lol. But that's me.


Sorry I wasn't clear, by "climbing mode" meant when the lamp is aimed way down in front of the wheel, illuminating the ground maybe less than four meters ahead. In that position you will certainly notice a spot, smooth as it may be. Elliptical lenses elliminate that problem, put out a wide arc of light so you can always see where you're going no matter how you turn the bars. Yeah in normal mode aimed further out, Yinding's and I suppose also the KD2's beam probably least spotty of just about any lamp other than the NiteFighter BT40S, which sacrifices a little throw for its breadth.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Since pwu_1 is comparing KD2 to his MJ-808 for him it shurely can be used as a bar light as is. Of course with some other light on the helmet situaton can be somewhat different.


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

Cool modification Tigris. There's no way to get past the small thin housing of the Yindings, so the point of diminishing returns seems to hit pretty quickly. 

I'm curious as to how much difference Vancbiker's finned GoPro mount will help with dispersion. I'd love to see an "It went x number of minutes without the mount, and y number with the mount" before switching down to low to protect the light. 

I guess I struggle to grasp why the case would only get warm with improved heat dissipation through internal modifications. It seems like it would actually get hotter, unless you're able to spread the heat out over more surface area that's being air cooled. Putting fins around it just basically makes it more like a SS X2, and then you lose the size and weight advantages. 

I love the size, weight, and beam pattern, but if it's going to drop down to low all the time, then that defeats the purpose.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I wonder what the cost would be to have someone like Vancbiker CNC a new housing complete with GoPro tabs already on it. 

Then we could just gut the cheapos and install in a quality housing with lots of heatsinking. 

Problem is it'd cost twice as much as the donor light.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

thanks for all the replies. I mainly picked up this light to tinker with cuz that's what I like to do! using it as a handlebar light is just my justification for getting it, haha

Anyways, I'm going to try and do some of the mods that tigris99 did. I bought some thermal paste and a 26 gauge copper sheet with the light order.

That said, the only wires that I have on hand are some 16 gauge high strand count wire from my model air plane days. Think I would be able to solder that from the emitter board to the driver board or is the wire way too thick?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'd say it's way too thick. I soldered in 18ga on my 4.2v version board for bench testing and that was tough to deal with. I'd say go 20ga or 22ga. 

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

NWAtrailyguy said:


> I guess I struggle to grasp why the case would only get warm with improved heat dissipation through internal modifications. It seems like it would actually get hotter, unless you're able to spread the heat out over more surface area that's being air cooled.


Well remember this is just KD's Yinding clone here, not the same one as shipping from GearBest with the good build around the emitters. Copper plate tigris added both improves thermal migration and adds a bit of mass, which can store more energy at relatively lower temperature than KD's meagre setup - which ledoman mentioned is slated for improvement, yay!

Plus of course any bicycle light is expected to be used while in motion; most riders will conserve battery power by only running the lamp at High on fast descents, when it should have all the air flow needed to stay within safe parameters. Truth is you just don't need all the power of High when climbing walls at 3mph, only need to see a few feet in front of you. (Don't ask me how I know this. )


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

andychrist said:


> Well remember this is just KD's Yinding clone here, not the same one as shipping from GearBest with the good build around the emitters. Copper plate tigris added both improves thermal migration and adds a bit of mass, which can store more energy at relatively lower temperature than KD's meagre setup - which ledoman mentioned is slated for improvement, yay!
> 
> Plus of course any bicycle light is expected to be used while in motion; most riders will conserve battery power by only running the lamp at High on fast descents, when it should have all the air flow needed to stay within safe parameters. Truth is you just don't need all the power of High when climbing walls at 3mph, only need to see a few feet in front of you. (Don't ask me how I know this. )


Good point, and I think that's the disconnect on my part. I knew that the excitement around the GearBest light came from when the "gurus" on the board took it apart and saw that it was made better than most of the Chinese Cheapo's. I think Tigris targeted this model because he could get it faster, and he planned to tinker with it anyway. If they improve the heat sink, then this will be the better option based on the availability and shipping time.

Truth is, I can ride most local trails with my helmet light only. Running the GB Yinding on high probably won't ever be required, so I'm probably worried about nothing. I'm just glad there are guys like you and others on here who know the good ones from the junk, and can help guys like me who don't know a flux capacitor from a heat sink.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

My case gets hot! Can touch it but wouldn't hold it in ur hand. 

Here thing with cooler case by better heat management internally: Basically as led runs it gets hotter. The faster the heat is pulled from emitters, the lower overall temp since emitters build up less heat. Its a theory in a sense that mass and surface area of heat sink aka case has to be able to dissipate the heat quickly enough. Each case and internal heat management is a function of the other.

Being as mine is yet to step down since mod I am setting up to do temp tests to see effect of vancs mount on heat dissipation.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So dug through all my tubs of spare crap un the basement...










Now I can do tests in identical conditions each time get a better comparison of effects. This thing isn't done yet but fans up and working


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

Cool. Well..or maybe hot. I guess we'll see. At any rate, I'm interested to see if there's any discernible difference between the finned adapter and without. 

BTW...am I dreaming it, or is that a print out of an Arthroscopic/Endoscopic procedure in the upper right of the picture? Maybe from your elbow procedure? My left elbow has been giving me issues for a few years now. I got a corticosteroid shot in it right after the initial trauma (got ripped off a ladder pulling a box off a shelf in the garage...long story, lucky to be alive), and it helped, but a few years later now it flares up anytime I do much of anything with it. The Ortho doc told me if the shot didn't work, I would probably need surgery. I guess I"m tot hat point now. :sad: After you're healed up, maybe you can report the results of that test too. :thumbsup:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya im going to run tests with and without, got more pics of set up as its mostly done just gotta do something with the wire mess. But its functioning. I'll probably start tests later tonight.

And ya, have 4 holes around my elbow from scope. I chipped the bone and over the last few months it made a mess.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)




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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Quite the contraption! 
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

well i needed something that was more "controlled". Air flow and air temp always the same. Its literally all stuff I had in plastic tubs in my basement lol. Quick google search on how to use the comp PSU and turn it into a standard DC 12v PSU. Hard to see but I used Lexan to created a "duct" of sorts, pusing flow from all fans out the middle. the big fan has a top part you cant see at all that compresses down to opening as tall as the regular fans. Then side fans just ducted towards the center as well, creating an outlet about the size of 2 80mm case fans side by side. big enough opening I can test far bigger lights with flow on all sides (as if being used while riding) but compressed enough to give a solid flow of undisturbed air. Literally cost me $0.00 lol. Guess is about 7-9mph breeze coming outta it.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

*Temp test results plastic vs Vancbikers mount*

Heres test results. Remember, this test is done on my modded light with copper plate and thermal paste not pure stock. Stock would be a waste cause high triggers thermal step down quickly without serious air flow:

Summary, 14% increase in heat dissipation at internal copper heat transfer plate. Or 14% lower internal temp.

Note: Noticed Vanc's gopro adapter allowed something that didnt happen with plastic mount. See below with 30 sec fans off cycle mid test.

Test duration: Approx 15 mins (vanc's mount got tested longer by a couple mins, had to use boys room).

Air flow of about 7-9 mph, mild cruising speed

Both Tests lights were left on high from start to finish.

Ambient Temp: 77 deg F (25 C)

at approx 10 min mark fans were turned off for 30 secs to simulate stopping for a brief drink or catch breath.








[/URL]

Test one: Plastic mount








[/URL]

During this test case temp held approx 140 F till fan cycle off, moved up to 152 F then once fans kicked on eventually moved down to and held 150 F ( 65.5 Celsius) Only dropped 2 deg....

Test 2: Vancbikers Yinding Gorpro Mount Adapter (Aluminum)








[/URL]

Temps hit over 100 F quickly but after 115 F began to slow increase greatly. held steady at 129 F from there. During cycle fans off test, temps peaked at 142 F, then once fans were back on in less than 1 min temps were back at 129-130 F (53.8 Celsius).

There you go, that gopro finned adapter ROCKS!!! As a note case was still hot to the touch but not unbearable. Didnt feel much different to the touch, but internal temps where reduced by 14%


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks tigris for that test. Nice to see improvement. Last night I've start building my own copper gasket. It's finished not assembled in the light yet. I need to make two or three more since I've unsoldered all the wires from the PCB and driver to make it easier.

It is not suprise Gopro mount helped a lot since increase overall mass for about 50% (my guess). It would help if you would add any other piece of metal. For the ones using Gopro (I don't) this is the way to go, shure. I might consider using some heatsink with longer screw.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice to see im helping.





So found out tonight reflow soldering can be done with a soldering iron. Using star as the "hot plate". I was able to change my cool white to 3c NW. I bought then with 20mm stars but they are actually bigger than 20mm and would fit. So tranfered emitters to stock board. Works great. And I like this 3c tint. I get colors of objects in the light but still a strong white color to the light.





Now if my framing mouser order would show up so I can boost this baby. Oh and to wait for new optics from leddna, didn't realize they were Hong Kong till after I ordered lol.

Edit, 2 days late but mouser order in the morning lol. Oh and I have a set of u2 3c on 16mm stars too was going to try and make a housing for them, noctigon copper stars on proper aluminum plate should help temps too.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok tests ran in pushing driver harder. 3289 mA... Thermal shut down on my test set up was just shy of 4 mins with copper plate temp holding at 169-170 F.

Going to take one of the resistors off (have 2 0.5 stacked on stock 0.110, take one off) and run at ledomans specs now, 2777mA. Case should be able to handle that.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah maximum on just about any 8.4V lamp sold seems to be 2800mA. Perhaps that limitation is based on maximum discharge rate from 4-cell packs (~4.0A) so everything in the lamp is built around that? Have read where even 3.0A said to come dangerously close, guess there might be some kind of initial surge which the PCB cannot suppress? Or just a general safety margin?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Might be too much of a spike/voltage drop initially. It runs fine just overheats quickly. I'll probably try to push it to 2900ish when I get more resistors


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No it is all about heat and efficiency. At some point almost all the energy is going into heat. Unless you have super good cooling (which we don't) the heat is limiting factor.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ah ok, but only testing anyway .


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

andychrist said:


> Yeah maximum on just about any 8.4V lamp sold seems to be 2800mA. Perhaps that limitation is based on maximum discharge rate from 4-cell packs (~4.0A) so everything in the lamp is built around that?


I think any limitation you have seen has to do with the cells being used. I run my dual XML helmet lamp at 3500mA on a 4 cell 8.4V pack using Sanyo cells salvaged from a dead laptop with no problems. I've also run a 6A load on Panasonic cells with a different light while experimenting, though I wouldn't want to do that long term.


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## NWAtrailyguy (Aug 13, 2014)

Tigris..thanks for the test man! That's awesome. I'm not surprised, but I do wonder if 10 degrees F would make much difference to the components of the light in the long run. 

You came into the threads asking for advice on lights, and now you're like the mad scientist or something! Bill Nye who? 

I'm glad to hear that the finned adapter worked well. I have been considering a clamp bar mount with the GearBest Yinding paired with Vancbiker's finned aluminum mount, and your test definitely has me leaning in that direction rather than the plastic and rubber band combo it comes with. 

At any point in the testing, did the light ever drop from high and go into "protection mode?" Have you done any testing to see what temperature is required to get them to do that? I know you're using a different light, so it's nowhere near apples to apples, but if you're using a fan to simulate 7-10 mph of cruising speed, and you saw it peak at 140F and 129F respectively, then if you identify that the "drop down" thermal protection kicks in at "x" temperature, then it would be easy to define where the light needs to be to stay on high. 

I'm being realistic. If I head out at 7:45 for an evening ride, which is right at dark in US CT zone currently, I'm probably going to ride hard for about 1.5 hours. While I may not need high, if I can run the light on high for that period of time, why not have the best vision possible? It's on the bike, and I'm pedaling the extra weight...I might as well get the most from it. That's how I look at it. 



I really appreciate your testing. It almost makes me want to find some sort of glue that will transmit heat well, and glue two pennies to the top of each side and let them hang out over the edge to help dissipate even more heat.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

NWAtrailyguy said:


> Tigris..thanks for the test man! That's awesome. I'm not surprised, but I do wonder if 10 degrees F would make much difference to the components of the light in the long run.
> 
> You came into the threads asking for advice on lights, and now you're like the mad scientist or something! Bill Nye who?
> 
> ...


LOL ya heres the thing, Im not new to LEDs, new to these driver/emitter things we have now. Also dealing with heat....used to be in RC, build my own computers, etc etc. So I know and understand heat well enough when it comes to electronics. My learning curve here is what affects what on the elctronics side and I have been doing A TON of research lol. Plus I like to fab up little contraptions like my fans stuck to a converted PSU.

As for temps for thermal step down:

Covered now, problem is with current mods I got tired of waiting for thermal step down. Especially with Vancs adapter. Your talking 10 mins in dead air you MIGHT get it to step down on un-modded driver.

That being said, today my order from Mouser finally arrived, which included resistors to follow in ledomans footsteps and make a parallel sense resistor set up.

I stacked 2 r500 on top of stock r110. Boosted amp output from 2.27A to 3.29A. Took just under 4 mins on my test set up to over heat and step down. Internal case temp at emitter/copper backing plate maintained about 170-175 F, got there fairly quick and once it got almost to 4 mins the heat being created overwhelmed the cooling mods and air flow. And stepped down.

SO yes 10deg internal case temp does make a difference. Outside where it was 5-7 mph breeze and in low 40s, step down didnt occur after several minutes.

Im now at 1 r500 resistor stacked, 2.77A output. And ran another test:





7-8 deg F increase in holding temp, but did the fans off 30 sec cycle, rose 10, came back down. So on 100% internal temp at 137f (58C)

Tested outer case best I could, temps about 120-125f
Anything over internal case temp of 160 becomes problematic, hits 170F and its going thermal step down any time.

Now for you running stock 2.27A driver output, with vancs mod and either aluminum or copper internal plate added (plus thermal paste) you can run on high all you want. My medium program is now set to what high output was stock, well a hair over but close enough.

Understand this is a "tinkering" thing for me cause I can do all kinda of crazy things for no more than a few dollars outta pocket. Keeping me entertained while im down. And I have always been fascinated with LEDs.

Tomorrow starts next mod test. IM making a 1 piece pill set up for 16mm mcpcb copper noctigons (with another set of xm-l2 u2 3c) that i ordered. research found that at about 2000mA on up, copper direct thermal mcpcb's allow more lumen output, around 8-10% iirc because emitters themselves stay cooler. Hope is shave a couple degrees off case temps and should gain a little more light (100 lumens ill be happy with). Also considering mounting some RC motor heat sinks to sides for fun


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ps: MacGyver was WAY cooler than bill Nye


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Good work, keep informing us. I don't know exactly how you are going to combine Noctigons with existing PCB not having problems with room for lenses.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

NWAtrailyguy said:


> I'm glad to hear that the finned adapter worked well. I have been considering a clamp bar mount with the GearBest Yinding paired with Vancbiker's finned aluminum mount, and your test definitely has me leaning in that direction rather than the plastic and rubber band combo... It almost makes me want to find some sort of glue that will transmit heat well, and glue two pennies to the top of each side and let them hang out over the edge to help dissipate even more heat.


20pcs Black Heat Sink FOR Stepstick A4988 Chip IC Thermal Adhesive 8 8 8 8 5mm | eBay








These ought to make your Yinding look "sharp"!

NWAtrailyguy, even with all of tigris' mods, there is no way of knowing how close his KD2 comes in terms of thermal management to the Yinding which again, is extremely well built inside and might even have a very different circuit board, forget now how the two compare. Safe to say that Pacifier will improve YD's dissipation but impossible to really quantify at this point. That said, tigris hasn't tested his modded KD2 yet with both Kevin's alluminum adapter and alloy GoPro mount, so results seen here still have room for impovement.  WTG tigris!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ledoman said:


> Good work, keep informing us. I don't know exactly how you are going to combine Noctigons with existing PCB not having problems with room for lenses.


Not using existing, making a new one that will fit the 16mm noctigons.

I may have used "mcpcb" wrong, im n oxycodone for my elbow atm (just took them was waiting for them to kick in while I was typing up my test results)

What im doing is removing stock emitter board, then making a new aluminum backing plate that's proper full size.

Next im undecided (may try both ways see which is better):

1, simply mill the recessed "pot" for the noctigon to sit in. This done to new aluminum plate.

2: Make backing plate from 1mm (may use 6mm thick to add mass, same thickness as I'll use for idea 1) aluminum sheet. Then full size copper .4mm sheet. Next make 2 "rings" (aluminum rod drilled to 16mm ID) and using thermal adhesive to attach to copper plate. Essentially creating a copper lined set of "pots" for the stars to sit in. Thermal paste between star and copper, then copper sheet to aluminum backing plate.

I am running measurements of stock PCB then allowing thickness of noctigons to make up for the looseness of the optics, which will press the optics in tight and hold the stars in place.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Noctigons should be 1.6mm thick.

For reference here is a comparation picture with thermo camera:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh sweet thnx ledo. I have a good digital caliper so that'll help. Loving the infared image, hopefully my plan works!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok I received the amazon $21.99 version of the light today. It came in a plain brown box with a "Mudder" sticker on it and a label that says 'Mudder? CREE Xm-L L2 2-LE Cycling, Hiking, CampingNew'
I took apart the light and the internals looks pretty much like the pictures I saw in the beginning of this thread except the emitter board has no writing on it at all.
The light is tiny compared to my magic shine mj-808. Brightness seems comparable or maybe a bit brighter than the mj-808 and actually the beam is wider on the mj-808 but the mj-808 has a very obvious hot spot in the middle while the new one has good spread. The other difference is the battery pack. The battery pack is in a rectangular metal box with plastic caps on both ends and a recessed plug in the center that you plug the light cable into. The caps feel like they are glued on and seems like you would have to destroy the box to get the batteries out. But, for $21.99 shipped I pretty much expected the battery to be almost throw-away quality. 
In any case, I'm really impressed with the size of the light and the brightness so far. I think I'm going to pick up another one from amazon and put one on my helmet and then play around with different lenses and maybe mount one on the handlebar or just keep it as a spare. Going to retire the magicshine I think.

I already added thermal paste and a copper plate like tigris(although my workmanship is much much worse, haha) but I left the power wire alone since I haven't been able to find good 20 gauge cables for cheap and I was anxious to try this light on.

I'll charge the battery tomorrow and see how long it lasts.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great! Thanks for the feedback on this "mudder" version. Yeah, $21.99 is a steal!

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Does the mudder version have the same driver that the other versions have? That can be user adjustable?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

manbeer said:


> Does the mudder version have the same driver that the other versions have? That can be user adjustable?


Yes the description on amazon says it has the 10 step adjustable and 3 mode+ flashing and I verified that I can adjust the brightness level on each of the 3 modes

here's the link if anyone is interested
Amazon.com : Mudder® CREE XM-L L2 2-LED 1200LM 3-Mode Flashing 10-Level Brightness Adjustable Rechargeable Headlamp with Battery Pack & Charger Set for Outdoor Cycling, Hiking, Camping : Sports & Outdoors


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok I figured how to take the battery pack apart. I'm even more impressed I got this thing for $21.99, haha.
So, the pack is pretty much a re-useable battery box, with the protection circuit I'm assuming. So even if these 4 cells turns out to be duds, all I need to do is buy 4 new cells and drop them in. How cool is that? Anyway, here are some pics.









The board is marked with B+ and B- posts so just take care when re-assembling

It's similar to the one that kaidomain sells
https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022419


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*pwu_1* how did you get it apart? I've got one of those from KD and tested it beeing 4125mAh which is pretty good for such price. And you posted wrong link. There is no alone, but it's included with some sort of KD2. Battery is part of this set http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023680


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

glad to know the mudder is the same pretty much, at least case and driver (2 things I care about). Thanks for posting it.

Heres another mod for you guys, I threatened to do it, and I did. But OMG im not doing it a second time, too much work to get things so perfect for this little light. Came out NICE though. Especially when I did this with a portable drill press, and dremel with cutting bits/modified router adapter:




























Ill run thermal tests tomorrow see if there is any improvement. And Ill take more internal pics (was in a hurry to assemble and try out). Also upgraded wires to 20awg silicone . Found old lipo pack that was dead anyway, stole the wire from it lol.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice job again. This should help and you can suggest it to the KD.
I've done it with copper 0.1mm sheet as you did before. Will post pictures later on.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ledoman said:


> *pwu_1* how did you get it apart? I've got one of those from KD and tested it beeing 4125mAh which is pretty good for such price. And you posted wrong link. There is no alone, but it's included with some sort of KD2. Battery is part of this set http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023680


Sorry I put the wrong link there. I fixed the link to the correct one on kaidomain's website
The battery pack has a black sticker on each end of the cap, peel off the sticker on the side with the plug and you will see 4 screws. Take the 4 screws off and the cap will come off. Be careful since there is a wire in the middle. From there I took out the 4 screws that serve the dual purpose of acting as the battery post for the pcb and also holds the pcb to the top cap to get more room to shake the cells out since they are tight. But you might be able to get the cells out without doing that if you are really careful.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks pwu_1, will try this tonight.

In the mean time here is my copper work for better heat transfer.


















Three different:








Just back side and around PCB edge:








The biggest one streching also to the lens side:


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

damn that looks really nice ledoman. How do you cut the copper and what gauge copper is that?

So looks like you make 2 pieces? First piece you cut same size as the emitter board and that fits on the back of the emitter board. Then you make another piece that fills in the gap between the housing and the emitter board. Then you solder the 2 pieces together. 
That sound about right? Oh and did you use same gauge copper for both pieces?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes both are 0.1mm sheets (the only one I have). I've used good scissors and some sanding paper to fine grind the edges. With the biggest gasket I've used separated sheet left and right and add third in the middle. With others two I've used just one longer strip so the outer line was in one piece. I've used an old but powerfull solder station so it could heat the sheets very fast. This is the main point. You can't do it with small power as the heat is passing away very fast and solder can't melt.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice work ledoman, alot cleaner, nicer job than I did lol. Should work very nicely. Remember the back side has to be a very thin stip cause of the rear casing, rear casing takes half the available space.

I noticed ur PCB is better than my stock one, urs has copper at mount holes, mine does not. So im guessing mine is another clone like mudder.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, mine is (are) from Kaidomain. They all has copper plating. Unfortunately it doesn't spread under leds as I've expected. If it was I would solder copper strips to that layer and get direct copper path. Sadly this is not the case. Shurely copper gasket would help to some extent. Will add some thermal paste, but only at very last moment otherwise there will be a nice mess.

BTW, I'm planing to use Kapton tape to insulate backplate from the driver. After some time coil can get the insulation sanded off because of the vibrations on the bicycle.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok temp test completed.

Same 15min cycle with 30sec cycle of fans off.

Internal temp prior to fans off cycle: 118F

During off cycle: 129F

Return point once fans back on: 119/120F (kept bouncing back and forth).

Case temp 120F/ 48.8C

Theory correct in this case, remove heat from emitters faster, overall temps stay down. Key is speed of heat transfer from emitter to outer case.










I am going to do my other variant of this too. Because mainly its much easier DIY at home. Use aluminum tube to make retainer rings, thermal adhesive to attach to proper size backing plate.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

What did you do there tigris, flip-flop everything and attach separate cooling wings to the original mount screw hole? Why did you have to invert the whole lamp head to do that?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its not inverted lol. The little heat sink I grabbed with my mouser order, just drilled and tapped a hole for it, some thermal paste under and done. Just an experiment for added cooling. It helps temps by 2-3 deg F.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Its not inverted lol.


Oh, hadn't realized that the KD is reverse from the Yinding in how it has the control button in the back.

Dunno whether the YD and KD are CNC'd the same on top, but here's my latest inelegant solution for an upper deck cooling matrix I threw together to fit my Yinding:









Posted a bit more about it over on Vanbiker's adapter thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...tional-heatsinking-958312-2.html#post11866108

Have you worked out an alumimum mount to mate with Vancbiker's fins yet, tigris?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not yet I was making in pill/puck whatever u call it. Adapter to hold 16mm noctigon stars.

Btw holy crap that's alotta heat sink. Nice, going that far id see about pushing the driver harder. 45-50C case temp im plenty happy with, computers run at that on CPUs etc and last for decades.

Update on that:

Had to machine the adapter down so stars fit deeper in.

Made new copper rear plate (there is a purpose)










Refer to pics of new puck, holes in center. Found a purpose. Cut copper to fit in the whole enough to contact star and contact rear copper transfer plate. Direct copper contact from center of stars to out case now.

Put the 2nd r500 back in. Should be able to run several minutes on high before thermal step down. I'll be programming settings accordingly and running tests to see what max output is that case can now handle.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And testing done. And think im done pushing this sucker lol. Most I may do is get a little bigger heat sink for the top for summer. Oh and ill have optics here mondayish. Not an upgrade as much as person preference.

Here's the final list.

-Thermal paste everywhere (god that crap makes a mess)
-Vancbikers finned gopro adapter
-little chip heat sink from mouser(put on top)
-20awg silicone wire from driver to emitters
-made uni-pill to hold 16mm noctigon mcpcbs (stars)
-xm-l2 u2 3c emitters on 16mm noctigons
-copper plate behind aluminum plate with tab contacting case.
-2 R500 sense resistors stacked parallel on stock R110. EQUALS:
-Driver pushing 3289mah to emitters
-hot glued driver so puck doesn't break off

Think that's the end of it.

Test results add copper rear plate back in w/copper in pill holes for direct contact between stars and copper plate.

Maintained temp on High/100% was 142F (61C)

30sec fan off cycle temp up to 158F. Fan back on started to return to temp.

1:30 after fans back on (8:30mins) into test, thermal tripped. However if fans never shut off temp held at 142F for over 10mins before I had to shut down for dinner.

Temp increase took almost 5mins to hit holding temp.










My theory did hold up, faster heat transfer (copper path from copper stars to outer case) away from emitters the more current they can handle.

Btw, based on Luxmeter app for my phone (which seems pretty accurate for checking household lights) Im pushing 2273 lumens at 90% (where I have high programmed). Right on the money with the graphs I found for copper direct thermal pads vs standard aluminum.

Next up, aluminum gopro mount base to attach vancs mount too, then ss x3 should be here to start on.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Did you figure out a way to make the light waterproof?


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

My amazon securitying version has the cells in the rubber boot. Has anyone else got the pack similar to the mudder version with the metal box or is it exclusive to the mudder version? It seems as if the kd2 usually come with a pack similar to what I received


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Same here mine was standard plastic covered battery pack.

Think only mudder is sending them that way. Stock packs are crap anyway cause of lack of balance charge, so this type is easiest for me to rip open and take out the cells.

No I haven't messed with waterproofing yet, I have no intention on going swimming with it so besides I need to come up with something to plug the wire hole (just so it holds the wire better) I wont be doing anything beyond that. Its splash proof now which is good enough for me


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And for your veiwing pleasure, beam shots. Carclo optics. Bought 2 of each non frosted version LED supply had to play with. Right now on 1 standard narrow spot and 1 ringed medium spot. Not sure if i like not much of a spot,lol. but dual spot was too much of a hotspot.

[img[https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/mavric99/temporary_zpsnvxwji9u.jpg[/img]



















Oh and so much for leaving it alone...figured out how to make a remote switch for it lol. Just want to find more of the silicone buttons so I can do it to more lights (robbing it from my crappy single emitter thing)


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just ordered another one of these, this time the mudder version. Pwu_1 how would you say the battery pack will hold up to opening up every so often to charge cells separately to balance? I'm concerned that it may be like the old metal ones that people found were not really made for repeat disassembly.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I never noticed till now they come with a decent battery hard case.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

manbeer said:


> Just ordered another one of these, this time the mudder version. Pwu_1 how would you say the battery pack will hold up to opening up every so often to charge cells separately to balance? I'm concerned that it may be like the old metal ones that people found were not really made for repeat disassembly.


I don't think it'll work well to open that case often. First thing is the wire in the middle, it's short so have to be really careful otherwise you run the risk of breaking the wire. Maybe if you replace the wire with a longer one. The other thing is that the screws screw to channels in the case. I'm not sure how the threads in that channel will hold up to frequent use


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up, I was concerned with the threads. I will just have to hope that it holds balance well and I won't need to open it up too often. Going to swap in some 3400mah panasonic cells I think


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Manbeer, do u have just a 18650 charger or an actual rc type balance charger? I ask this because if u have a full smart charger u can simply add in a balance plug. Waterproofing of things truely only matters for any PCB in the case. The main plug doesn't need to be waterproof, and as long as balance plug isn't submerged im yet to have an issue with lipos (far more dangerous and explosive).


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Actually I do have a hobby charger with balance function but I have to do a bit of digging and try to find all the plugs that came with it. As of now I just know where the unit itself it. I didn't even think of doing that as I know very little about these but it would probably save me a bit of time and headaches in the future. This is the charger that I have from back when I had my rc cars. Hopefully it's still decent and I can find all the parts

https://traxxas.com/products/parts/chargers/2933ezpeakchargerplus6amp


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's was a hellva charger so if it still works your good to go. I have an estation bc6 (I was into rc helicopters then scale rock crawlers). Took a while too for me to find all my balance adapters but ill take a pic of my set up when we get back home. Since I only have ss cases atm I made a balance tray for 4 cell balancing. 

Just make sure u get the wiring right for the plug you solder on (other wise like me, ull be about to throw things trying to figure out why it wont balance). Black and red wires on either end have to basically be to pack positive and negative points for power out from pack to plug for lights. Black and red mean little, its about how your balance plate in the charger is wired. You should have reversing adapters (in which case you know what im referring to). Then each middle red wire to each of the remaining + points of cells.

Problem u may have is 8.4 packs are 2p2s, so you have to charge at 2 cell voltage but have parallel set up as if charging 2 x 2 cell packs at the same time.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> ...Oh and so much for leaving it alone...figured out how to make a remote switch for it lol. Just want to find more of the silicone buttons so I can do it to more lights (robbing it from my crappy single emitter thing)


I'd like to hear more about how you figured out how to connect the remote.

A couple days ago I got a chance to try out my KD2 duo clone along with my SSX3, both neutral leds. Without any modding to any of mine I'm surprised that the KD2 seems almost as bright as the SSX3. The X3 is a little brighter though. The combo works very good together and using a ballpark distance estimate I'd say that I had no problem detailing terrain at 150 ft.

Anyway, I hope to get new glasses by the start of the riding season. No doubt that my distance vision is not as acute as it used to be. Time to get the eyes checked again.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

well i just found a traxxas connector and the balance board. i should be able to rig up a ms style adapter so in that regard i should be good to go. i will rip into the hard case that comes with this one and post up some pics so we can see how the pcb is set up. tigris i will probably be looking for help with this in the near future, thanks!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I wouldn't mind seeing details of how to wire up a balancing connector either! 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'd like to hear more about how you figured out how to connect the remote.
> 
> A couple days ago I got a chance to try out my KD2 duo clone along with my SSX3, both neutral leds. Without any modding to any of mine I'm surprised that the KD2 seems almost as bright as the SSX3. The X3 is a little brighter though. The combo works very good together and using a ballpark distance estimate I'd say that I had no problem detailing terrain at 150 ft.
> 
> Anyway, I hope to get new glasses by the start of the riding season. No doubt that my distance vision is not as acute as it used to be. Time to get the eyes checked again.


I'm still Waiting on parts to show up. Think switch is finally waiting for me at home, ill at least be able to direct wire it till sockets arrive or I find a US source.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just ordered a second mudder simply because I have a lot of cells coming and needed another holder. Hopefully it's close to the solarstorm in terms of quality. I didn't feel like waiting for shipping from overseas and it was almost like getting the lighthead for 12 bucks if that works out


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

If I wanted to get new cells using the mudder holder, should I bet protected or unprotected cells?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

manbeer said:


> Just ordered a second mudder simply because I have a lot of cells coming and needed another holder. Hopefully it's close to the solarstorm in terms of quality. I didn't feel like waiting for shipping from overseas and it was almost like getting the lighthead for 12 bucks if that works out


Make sure you test the light when you receive it. I bought 2 lights from mudder and the second one had issues out of the box. The first time I plugged it into the battery the button on the back lit up green but pushing the button the light did not turn on. Then I took it apart and somehow it started working. Then while I was trying to test the battery the light shut off again and pressing the button did nothing. I took the light apart again and measured the voltage at the + and - negative terminal on the emitter board to verify there was voltage so I think something was wrong with the LED or the circuit on the emitter board. Anyway I ended up returning it and ordering another one but had to pay $4 bucks more cuz Amazon changed the price to $24.99


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I'm still Waiting on parts to show up. Think switch is finally waiting for me at home, ill at least be able to direct wire it till sockets arrive or I find a US source.


Somewhere someone posted a link that offered the same ( remote ) button switch as the Gloworms. Not sure if I saved the link so if someone else has it please post up, I would like to save that link. Would be nice to hook up a remote on the KD2 Duo-clone. All I need to know is where to solder on the wires. If it's where I think I'm going to need a smaller solder tip and a steady hand.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If it is momentary switch then you have to solder it in paralell to the existing one on the driver. When pressed it just need to give some small signaling current to the ground. I'm talking about KD2 driver of course.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cat, ptt switches are momentary. The 2 wires on it get soldered direct to the switch in the driver. Allows u to use both. Just make sure you solder to wires to each point on the SAME side of the connector. The tact switch that's in there has 4 connections but they are paired up inside the switch.

I'll take pics later (my switch hasn't even shown up yet....)

Edit: Switch is here so I can go direct wire for the moment, ill switch to plug style when I get my sockets in.

Bought this one http://m.ebay.com/itm/380979022187?nav=SEARCH
its the same as the one from china I found linked in yinding thread I think, but its in the states and same price. I cut the connector off already to make sure it was simple 2 wire, then just bought 2 more.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey guys, info. LEDDNA and Carlco optics are the same diameter, they they interchange easily opening more beam options. Being these, yinding, etc optics are interchangeable. Will be going between carclo and LEDDNA optics to see beam patterns (I bought literally 2 of every beam pattern optic in carclo and from LEDDNA lol). Want to see if one better than other etc.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I did some testing of some of the LEDDNA TIRs here. I've since acquired a bunch of Carclo optics and an elliptical from KD (they were the only ones I knew of that had ellipticals at the time), but then winter hit and I was unable to do more testing. I hope to pickup again and continue soon (though I'll have to reshoot all the original TIRs too so as to have exact comparisons). I should go ahead and order a bunch of the new ellipticals from LEDDNA while I'm thinking about it.

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Tigris or anyone else using a hobby charger, don't wanna thread crap but since we were talking about it on here I just made a ms plug adapter and when I go to configure the charger it gives me 3.6v as the option for lithium ion and not 3.7, 3.7 is for lipo...do I need to use the LiPo setting or leave it on lithium ion? Thanks in advance


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I run mine on lipo but according to my charger lipo and li-ion have the same charging profile, just low amp charge (my charger starts high and adjusts current based on cell readings) takes hours if cells are "dead" aka at safe minimum voltage. Lipo can just charge much more quickly.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok so if I run lipo at lower current I should be ok? Wondering how beat my test pack is as I set it to 1.5a max and it began at .4 and is now at .2


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok I received the second mudder light that I ordered. I'm noticing something strange that I hope someone can help me with. I'm noticing that the 2nd light I have seem to have more voltage drop than the first one? The reason why I say this is because I noticed that on this light, the button in the back turned from green to orange after about 40 minutes on high. The other light ran for about an hour before the button turned orange. Also, once the button on the second light turned orange, I unplugged it and then plugged the first one into the same battery and the button remained green on high for another 10-15 minutes until the button turned orange. Once the button turned orange on the first one, if I plugged the 2nd light to the same battery pack, the button would now turn red. Would a cold solder joint cause something like this? I was planning on shortening the wires anyway but was wondering if there could be something else causing this.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I looked at the board closely and saw some sloppy soldering on the wires on the board....huge globs of solder on the board almost touching other components and yet somehow the negative power lead looks like it might have a cold solder joint...going to try to clean it up a bit but dang there's not much room to work there.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

*Remote Switch*

manbeer, you may be fine, I set mine at 1.5max, within 30 mins its down to .5-.6, then sits at .2-.3 for another hr or 2.

PWU: thats the inconsistencies of chinese lights. just like my solarstorm battery cases, indicators between the 2 drop differently but protection still works the same. I wouldnt worry about the light on the button, watch the light itself, see if it dims out sooner. Just because indicator light says one thing, your battery may be saying something entirely different.

Cat: Heres pics for remote switch for you, WORKS FREAKING BEAUTIFULLY, and took me longer to get crap together to do that mod than it did to actually do it and test it.

ALSO put something to hold the wire in the case, the wires for the switch are TINY and wont tolerate being tugged on. I just did a little e-clip internally where wire goes through case since direct wire is only temporary (hopefully). Hot glue probably is best and make sure to ONLY use a drill bit the exact same size as the wire so it fits good and snug (water cant sneak in easily)





FOR OTHER PEOPLE READING THIS, this IS NOT limited to this light, any light head with that kind of internal tiny push button switch, this mod for remote switch will work, just gotta be steady with a soldering iron.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> PWU: *thats the inconsistencies of chinese lights. just like my solarstorm battery cases, indicators between the 2 drop differently but protection still works the same. I wouldnt worry about the light on the button, watch the light itself, see if it dims out sooner. Just because indicator light says one thing, your battery may be saying something entirely different.
> *
> Cat: Heres pics for remote switch for you, WORKS FREAKING BEAUTIFULLY, and took me longer to get crap together to do that mod than it did to actually do it and test it.
> 
> ...


Couldn't of said it better myself. About the remote switch; good to hear it can work. I've got a little remote momentary switch somewhere with only two leads. When I get some time I might try messing with it.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok guys I now have both the securitying and mudder versions from amazon in my hands. I will elaborate further when I have more time to dig into things but from initial impressions they are not the same. Some of the key differences-

Securitying- case is a glossier black ano. Optics are have a cone shape in the center as opposed to the mudder which are basically cylindrical. Mudder has a different bin emitter, more of a greenish hue vs the white/slightly milky blue of the securitying. Lenses are LOOSE in the mudder and wobble when you shake it. Will determine the cause later on. Cord on the securitying has a thicker jacket and is roughly half the length as the mudder, which is designed to plug directly into the battery pack that has a port rather than a cord

With all this being said, I also have to mention, at least visually, what an awesome battery holder the pack that comes with the mudder makes. It is much beefier than I expected 

More to come tomorrow when I have some free time


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just pulled apart the stock pack. Cells were unknown purple flat tops. Screws are very easy to strip so I will grab something of better quality to reassemble tomorrow but it's a great case. All cells measured 3.8v so it was balanced at least. Will follow up


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Securitying comes with purple cells too. Color god only knows, I switch everything I have to u2 3c bin/tint. Guessing mudder cord is 24ga instead of 22awg of securitying version.

Getting flustered with mine kd2 for being set heavy on spot its still alot of flood. Trying to get better throw going to try dual narrow carclo (dont want to fight with trying to get collimator optics in it cause their taller.)


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok so I tore into them. Pics eventually when I get around to it. Here's the deal

The mudder and securitying have identical drivers. The similarities end there. The mudder has much thicker (could be 20 gauge wire from the driver to the emitter with silicone jacket. The fit of the star or whatever it's called (I'm brain dead tonight) is better on the mudder. The securitying version has massive gaps all around that you could basically look through. The gaps, although present on the mudder, were roughly half the size. The heat transfer may actually be decent by just applying a bead of thermal paste but I know very little about this. Better fitment on the mudder for sure though. Also, my securitying was missing a screw that holds the star? To the case. The mudder had 2 screws but they were mismatched. One was a metal screw, the other a machine screw. Presumably both were made on an off day. Fwiw the back plate of the mudder seemed to press in a bit more snugly, possibly due to the thicker looking flat finish

Cliffs notes-
Securitying has better stock tint, optics seat more snugly

Mudder has better fitting plate behind emitters, thicker wire. Battery pack is nice nice nice! 
Drivers are the same in both
Both had some minor quality control issues- Securitying missing a screw, mudder had one wrong screw


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

manbeer said:


> Ok so I tore into them. Pics eventually when I get around to it. Here's the deal
> 
> The mudder and securitying have identical drivers. The similarities end there. The mudder has much thicker (could be 20 gauge wire from the driver to the emitter with silicone jacket. The fit of the star or whatever it's called (I'm brain dead tonight) is better on the mudder. The securitying version has massive gaps all around that you could basically look through. The gaps, although present on the mudder, were roughly half the size. The heat transfer may actually be decent by just applying a bead of thermal paste but I know very little about this. Better fitment on the mudder for sure though. Also, my securitying was missing a screw that holds the star? To the case. The mudder had 2 screws but they were mismatched. One was a metal screw, the other a machine screw. Presumably both were made on an off day. Fwiw the back plate of the mudder seemed to press in a bit more snugly, possibly due to the thicker looking flat finish
> 
> ...


Dang! I bought some 20 gauge fine strand silicone wire to replace the wire between the emitter board and controller of my mudder version....still waiting for it to arrive from China but guess I might not need it after all.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Man buy wire from http://www.mtnelectronics.com

They sell by the foot, takes a few days and you know your getting awg and Chinese gauge. I actually buy my leds there too cause they have xm-l2 u2 in 3c tint, and they sell noctigon mcpcbs (led stars but the top of the line for thermal). Not quite china cheap but very close and get ur stuff in half the time.

Manbeer, look back through my build, the second screw can't even go in lol. I had to take my dremel to the bottom hole and elongate it so I could put a screw in. Interesting to see the cheaper version is slightly better on a couple things.

Can't wait till KD releases the updated version, they've been watching this thread and mine on BLF as they are addressing the issues.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, they have announced to start working on better heatsinking with KD2 this month. I'm also interested to see what the improvement would be.

As far as quality goes it seems KD2 version from Kaidomain is much more stable. No missing parts or loose lenses, etc. And it has copper triangle on PCB to improve heat transfer somewhat.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I have to say, the mudder version looks identical to the actual KD version. The finish, the pcb , etc. It also has the copper triangles. securitying definitely has a few differences.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

ledoman said:


> Yup, they have announced to start working on better heatsinking with KD2 this month. I'm also interested to see what the improvement would be.


Just curious, but who is "they" and where does "they" announce things?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Appel said:


> Just curious, but who is "they" and where does "they" announce things?


Kaidomain sales personel I'm in touch from time to time..


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Just for fun I've made some add on with heatsink and thermal conducting adhesive tape. Not so nice shaped light anymore, but WTH at night it doesn't matter. 



















Used those heatsinks where I cut off the bottom two fins.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol im trying to finish hp my router table for my dremel so I can make one myself for my kd2 and my ssx3. Nice work cause urs looks like it belongs there...mine won't hehe.

Here's mine all set up, and Vanc pointed out the ease of just putting remote on helmet, so got some adhesive Velcro and shortened the wire. Thnx vanc makes more sense now and ill have fenix case tomorrow so ill have helmet pack for rides without camelbak.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice improvement, tigris. Specialy remote momentary switch. You have done a lot of good stuff lately.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Nice improvement, tigris. Specialy remote momentary switch. You have done a lot of good stuff lately.


agreed, if there was a rookie of the year award for the lights and night riding forum I would nominate tigris in a heartbeat.

Seems like a month ago he was just looking for options on a couple of lights to start riding and tinker with and now look what he's become!

And my second mudder arrived today. Same thing, loose optics that don't seem quite deep enough to reach the pcb.

Was doing a bit more examining as I reassembled the mudder and securitying and noticed that the cable is secured much better on the mudder vs the securitying which is gonna need a strain relief of some sort

I applied some artic silver around the pcb on the mudder (gap was too large on the securitying to even think about it) and the heat transfer to the case is already noticeably better

This one came with a dead protection circuit on the pack though so even though all the cells read 3.8 nothing is output to the light. Will have to look into it when I have more time

All in all for someone trying to mod their light with minimal effort the mudder version seems like the better value than the securitying, which needs more extensive heat management help (missing screw to secure pcb, giant gaps) has thinner wire to pcb, and no strain relief for cord. With the mudder, throw on some thermal paste, find better fitting optics and you have a decent light even if you aren't too diy inclined


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Try taking the top cap off the battery, double check polarity and then re-seating the cover. A couple of times when I reassembled the pack it would seem dead. But if I take the cover off and reseat it it usually works after that. I now usually plug the light in yo make sure I get a light on the button on the light, then install the screws. Yesterday I accidentally put the cover back wrong loosely but I think the terminals made contact and even after putting the cover on correctly the pack seemed dead. I then plugged the charger into the port for a few seconds. After that the pack started working again so I think I might have tripped some kind of reverse voltage protection on the board?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I think theses cheap lights are just going to have some QC issues. Of the three mudder lights I got(returned one because it didn't turn on), two had emitter boards that fit pretty well against the case, one had considerable gap on the curved side. So yeah I think QC is just not that great.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Kd2 has protection on the driver, been there done that on testing. If its overloaded at all for any reason it trips in the light head. Dont know about packs though.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> Try taking the top cap off the battery, double check polarity and then re-seating the cover. A couple of times when I reassembled the pack it would seem dead. But if I take the cover off and reseat it it usually works after that. I now usually plug the light in yo make sure I get a light on the button on the light, then install the screws. Yesterday I accidentally put the cover back wrong loosely but I think the terminals made contact and even after putting the cover on correctly the pack seemed dead. I then plugged the charger into the port for a few seconds. After that the pack started working again so I think I might have tripped some kind of reverse voltage protection on the board?


good idea, I have one running fine with new 3400mah panasonic cells but the other I will try bumping with a charger. It's possible I touched something when disassembling that tripped a protection circuit


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

BTW, thnx for the compliments guys. With being off work for my elbow surgery, Ive had alot of time to read and all that, plus since these are small and cheap (though still getting full paychecks since it was work injury) I can spend hours tinkering and not stress my arm. Just take a break, take some pics, type on here, etc when my arm starts to bother me. But literally stuck at home pretty much for what I was just told yesterday is another 4 weeks. Mix my fascination of LEDs and my obsession for riding, I loose sleep over planing, designing, etc lol.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

manbeer said:


> ...And my second mudder arrived today. Same thing, loose optics that don't seem quite deep enough to reach the pcb...
> 
> All in all for someone trying to mod their light with minimal effort the mudder version seems like the better value than the securitying... With the mudder, throw on some thermal paste, find better fitting optics and you have a decent light even if you aren't too diy inclined


manbeer, where did you find optics that fit okay inside the Mudder? And wonder what they are using that are too short, sounds weird! Thanks.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Actually think the problem may be the o rings which are much thinner on the mudder. When I have some more time I will look into it again. The funny thing is, I keep saying "when I have more time" and then I go into work and end up tinkering with this stuff and not getting anything else done s guess is that they will be coming back apart sooner rather than later


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Where is the most reliable place to get NW emitter boards for these things? I may want to change my Mudders over to NW.


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## Appel (Dec 10, 2014)

Don't know if you can buy only the emitter board. But you can buy a emitter board together with the driver here
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023807


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If you want to use standard emitter boards (16mm or 20mm) use Mountain Electronics @ www.mtnelectronics.com (copper Noctigon boards preferred). If you want a drop-in solution buy from KD.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Adding a glass lens in front of the optic is going to cut down on the amount of light making it out. Some of these Chinese glass lenses have been tested at up to 18% loss (my MT-05s).

-Garry


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I was just thinking rather than buying the switch and all that just getting the emitter board with NW emitters already affixed.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

PHeller are the optics loose at all in your mudder? Both of mine are so I'm kind of curious


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Both mine mudder are somewhat loose. I was thinking of getting some thicker o-rings. Pretty sure that will fix it. But then I realized these o-rings glow in the dark, haha


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I was wondering what was glowing!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah I looked again today and o rings should definitely take care of it

By the way, Pwu_1 - I tried what you said and it worked. Just plugged and unplugged from the charger a couple times and good to go. Same thing happened after I swapped the new cells in, did it again, worked like a champ!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I found some 20MM OD x 18MM ID, 1mm thick O rings at FastTech. I think they are the same ones used in these lights. Doubling up on the O rings seems to fix the rattling issue. Not sure how well it'll work for waterproofing though. First time purchasing from FastTech, wonder how long it'll take before I receive it.
They used to have a 20MM OD x17MMID, 1.5mm thick O ring but it is showing discontinued. DealExtreme also shows the same O ring but 7-10 days for shipping so not sure if they can even get them any more.
I think one of those should be thick enough to take up the slack


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out ur guys ratting issue, maybe manbeer can shed some light on hieght of optics etc cause cases should be the same.

Hell if u ordered from fastech should have grabbed optics from them, the ones there are taller than stock ones would take up the slack and give u options for beam pattern.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

The lens is just loose enough that if you shake the light it rattles a bit. Probably has 0 waterproofing this way. Doubling up on the O rings or getting a thicker O ring should take up the extra space and hopefully provide slightly better waterproofing.

The only 20mm optics I found were 15 degrees and 30 degrees. 15 degrees is the same as the one that came with the light right? And I want to use this as helmet light so 30 degree is probably the wrong way to go....so I just got the O rings.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Securitying version has thicker o rings. Stack height of optics seems about even so likely the thicker o rings are necessary to pick up the slack


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ah didn't know fasttech only carried a couple. I bought mine from LEDDNA, glad I did much better optics than carclo except size being taller, wouldn't fit my securitying version with upgraded mpcbs and and plate.



Sadly this light got gutted and put I parts bin for the moment. Got my yinding. As pissed as I was with the condition it arrived in, all is better now. My kd2 driver was about done with me unsoldering and resoldering the wires, already lost and had to repair an input contact point. So stole switch/silicone button, and noctigons with emitters, remote switch, and battery cable (yindings was too short for reaching my ss case when in hydropack). Have second driver coming if it ever shows up from KD, took them 2 weeks to get it and my light actually shipped out after telling me it was shipped 2 days after order. Then I think though I requested air mail, they sent it slow boat.



I'm going to get a mudder since this case has 2 extra holes drilled in it too. Make a new emitter plate now that im just about where I need to be with tools so I dont have to freehand everything. Let drill/mill press and home built router table, both set up for my dremel, help me do cleaner smoother work.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Just got home from the first night ride with this KD2 light. What an awesome little light! I really like how it gave out a good swath of light without any hotspots. Compared to my old magicshine 808 the light is much more even all around. The magicshine is probably jus as bright or brighter but I thought it had a really bad hot spot to the point of washing everything out and just blinding you. The kd2 on the other hand gave out a more even light without hotspots so I feel like it allowed me to go faster since I can make out the terrain better.
Can't wait till the nitefighter gets here. Hoping the bt40s will compliment this KD2 well


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MJ-808 is not brighter, it just looks so because of concentrated light in the hotspot. All in all you get more light out of KD2. Of course it is more dispersed so it looks less bright but you can see terrain more evenly.
BT40s will give you more wide light and if they have the same tint you migh even not notice if the KD2 is switched on. This can be good combo with BT40s on bars and KD2 on helmet. I would gladly hear from you how it goes since I don't own BT.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm with u on being anxious for a bt40. Couldn't justify $70 on amazon though when I dont "need". But $25 for the light head, im happy to wait.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman said:


> MJ-808 is not brighter, it just looks so because of concentrated light in the hotspot. All in all you get more light out of KD2. Of course it is more dispersed so it looks less bright but you can see terrain more evenly.
> BT40s will give you more wide light and if they have the same tint you migh even not notice if the KD2 is switched on. This can be good combo with BT40s on bars and KD2 on helmet. I would gladly hear from you how it goes since I don't own BT.


Ha ledoman you took the words out of my mouth! Yes the BT40S has a very wide beam, and the 808 has a very hot spot. I just modded my 808 clone so I can use it on the bars better, it combines pretty well with my NW Yinding, which has similar optics to the KD2 so I hear. Okay this single emitter clone is still not nearly as bright as the NiteFighter but with two lamps certainly enough lux on the trail.

Glad that Kaidomain is offering the KD2 and so many other lamps in NW, hope they eventually make that option available across the board.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Glad that Kaidomain is offering the KD2 and so many other lamps in NW, hope they eventually make that option available across the board.


I can suggest that to the KD. Well, the whole asortiment won't go, but few of them under KD control might happen to get NW option. I hope one of their 3up is on the way to me. I've asked them to give me NW leds. Will see. Since an average time to shippments from China reach me is 3-4 weeks I'll have to wait quite some more time.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What 3x head did you order with NW emitters? KD branded ones I have only seen the d88.

I have an 808 clone and its in pieces, can't even justify "worth my time". May see what the driver is like see if its useable for a project down the road. After I saw and expanded what my kd2 could do, didn't see a point anymore. Never liked it anyway not enough light.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is candidate for the one of ugliest lights ;-) -> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023930.z (no accesories, battery, etc)

I have original old MJ-808 (P7) and moded one with XM-L2. They were good since recently when those KD2, 880 clones and Yindings poped up. Now I'm spoiled with all that light and I won't go back. To bad. My first MJ-808 cost me $80. Now you can get clone set for $20 or so (with shitty battery pack of course and lousy charger).


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think the 3shot is really cool and has the stepless mode driver. But this thread is about the KD 2x YD clone.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, you are right. At least they are both KD. When time comes I'll start with KD3 thread ;-) I can already foresee the similar voltage drop problems as KD2 has.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

My Mudder has loose optics. I know there was a poll earlier in the thread.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That is a pretty ugly light, and for me too much going on in the back, get rid of the fancy digital numeric indicator and give me a remote switch lol. 

I'm guessing they sent it to you for testing, I want to know how to get the light head alone. Neutral emitters isn't a big deal, can change those but id love to see how it stacks up against my ss x3.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Got my copper sheet sampler set coming tomorrow so it looks like that will be the first thing that I eventually wind up doing. Off the top of my head, I can really just pull off the back plate and trace the portion that slides into the light on to the copper and that should be the proper diameter to mount the emitter board on, correct?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes, trace the backing plate for inner dimensions but cut just inside your line or it wont fit.

Now comes which route ur taking. Ledoman had to cut his slightly smaller to make more of a half sleeve on either side, my way was trace, then draw in a tab to be bent over at the top creating more of an oval shaped bowl, but sides didn't continue past the outside diameters (as not to risk thin sheet is metal rubbing on power wire leaving the case). Also tab or sleeve can only go about 3mm towards the back/driver plate, any more either back cap with driver on won't fit or you end up with raw copper right into your driver circuits.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok thanks, this is the set I got. Think it's like 5 sheets of various thickness 4" x 4" so hopefully I don't screw up too much


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Got my first copper plate done tonight by error, I actually was taking it apart and had used way too much thermal paste (noob mistake) and it got all over the emitters. I used thermal compound remover but didn't think about it and it clouded and softened the domes so I got mad. So I decided since I have some NW emitters on their way I would remove the old ones from the board and work on the copper plate. Isn't as beautiful as some I've seen but fits pretty nice with just a little micro gap on one corner


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

And since this app seems to allow me to upload photos here's a few of the mudder and securitying side by side

Securitying left mudder right









Grand Canyon on the securitying










Mudder board fitment










Securitying left mudder right


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice

Btw DONT USE odd stuff to clean thermal paste off emitter domes, USE RUBBING ALCOHOL. Ive done it more than I care to admit, but q-tips and rubbing alcohol and all is good, dome looks same as a new emitter.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

This stuff was overpriced citrus degreaser I'm pretty sure. Made by arctic. Going to use alcohol next time!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Mudder version is now gone from amazon...who knows if/when it'll be back


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Good thing I grabbed one instead of dealing the the mj880 mess. I wanted the battery case more than anything, but my kd2 needed a new shell after everything I tried and didn't like and tried new ideas lol. But after the parts I went through fabbing up I can't just let it sit in pieces lol.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Good, I went to order another and got mad cause it was gone, but wound up snagging the securitying mj880 clone that you ordered (I guess they found and relisted it for 29.99) so now I don't feel guilty about buying the only 1 left. If you want to trade let me know though haha


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hehe, nah im good, I go back to work Monday so major mod lights im gonna take a break from. Some point im going to get one, just with a kd2 (when mudder gets here) 2 yindings, ss x3, bt40, mt kd2 4.2 remote, and an angel eye, I got my entertainment for a while hehe. And want to start trying working on my own light head now that I got aluminum stock to do it with.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Damn it. I'm going to miss you always being on the forum. Tell them you need more time off


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol, ill still be around after work, I work night and everyone in bed. Plus work or not once I can get back on the bike regularly now that I cam night ride...gonna miss me anyway


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

More amazon version updates. The mudder still is unavailable but the last of mine arrived today. Of the 3 I have, 2 are better than the last. One has mismatched (one metal screw and one machine screw) but the others are proper. Also, one had the emitter board mounted in opposite orientation vs the other two. Worth noting is the fact that the o rings are what's causing the lens movement for sure. The securitying version has slightly thicker o rings. I recall someone mentioning that a thicker o ring was spec'd but the part was unavailable or something long those lines so maybe that's why? Maybe someone can chime in regarding that. Also the stock cells on the mudder are actually holding up very well to my discharge. Will test actual capacity in the next day or two. So far though, it's a decent light and a good value so if they come available again worth jumping on


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

But all the Amazon versions are Cool White, right? Are replacement NW emitter boards available from KD? Sorry, am sure it's been mentioned already somewhere in this thread but my internet connection is bogging down, D'oh!


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes, amazon versions are both cool white. The securitying seems to be closer to NW but not quite there, the mudder is definitely a harsher tint from what I can see. Kd sells replacement boards that come with a driver as well for 12 dollars. I suppose when you factor in that the light is only 19 there these become less of a deal but the battery pack on the mudder is really nice


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah too bad KD doesn't sell the emitters and drivers separately. Guess I'll wait until NW Mudders or others hit the shelves, bound to happen eventually. No problem for me cause I've already outfitted all my own bikes, just looking for cheap quick solutions for my riding buds. Well if at least the CW Mudder ever comes back, I'll put in a request to KD, see if they'll sell the NW emitter by itself (like GB does for the YD.)


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I may just take the pair and use the driver for the yinding if it's an easy swap. For 12 bucks to upgrade both lights it's pretty reasonable


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah manbeer that's what I was considering but don't think the two boards are all that compatible, their shapes and placement of screw holes differ. Maybe tigris modded his to fit somehow?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Damn I should have bought these sooner, because except for the optic issues these are far better un every aspect than the securitying version

Silicone wires, center section of case is aluminum, cells look better and heavier. Man this was a deal I contacted seller hopefully they will restock

Here's my modded box. Installed magicshine female but can still use the port so I can actually run dual lights off it. Put my green Panasonics in it since they are the most suited to handle dual lights.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Andy, no the yinding plate wont fit the kd2. I haven't messed with mods like that I just used mcpcbs with new emitters fitted and made my own plate for the kd 2.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Correct, but drivers can be swaped. There is only toroid and switch button height issue. You need to be careful to put wires around toroid. Switch button can be shortened if needed.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah so that makes it worthwhile to get the emitter/ driver combo. For 12 bucks I can have a step less driver for the yinding and nw emitters for my other light. Not bad. As tigris said, the mudder is a really nice package for the price. Imo if it becomes available again, this is the one to get. Quality seems on par with the real kd2's but the battery case is the real highlight. Stock cells seem decent as well


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm impressed with the whole package. Light is true kd2 including silicone wires etc, case I couldn't believe the center wire was even silicone.



And the cells. Best china cells I have yet. 1600-1700mah per cell so talking around 3000mah capacity, current output is better than any china cells i have by far. I balanced them and now they are in my converted ss case for 4.2v use for my commuter. That's only cause I have enough Panasonics now for 3 ppl lol, 16 total when last 4 greens get here. 



I WANT MORE OF THESE CASES!!! But protection rating doesn't handle more than about 5A draw before tripping. 3A yinding and 2.5A angel eye trips it if both on high . But its a beast of a case.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok so I did a couple discharge cycles on the stock mudder pack with my traxxas ez peak and my average reading is 4500mah, given the margin of error on my other packs that I am aware of (6800 always reads just over 7000) I would have to estimate that these are actually 2100-2200mah cells. So it's pretty useable as a budget set, even the batteries. Now I'm gonna have to test all the other cells I've pulled from the packs and see if the results are consistent


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I didn't do a discharge cycle I just gave an estimate based on storage lvl. I'm not too worried about it but the are far better than any of my other china cells.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok guys, we better hope the mudder comes back. KD actually has the identical setup with same battery pack buried in the depths of their site for 45 dollars listed as the n90 or something, not kd2

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023680


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I hate to burst bubbles, I contacted the sellers for both the mj880 clone and the mudder.....

Neither is coming back


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Crap. Well I guess I should just be thankful for what I was lucky enough to grab


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya at least I got one . Guess we just keep an eye out maybe well find something else worth while.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

manbeer said:


> Ok guys, we better hope the mudder comes back. KD actually has the identical setup with same battery pack buried in the depths of their site for 45 dollars listed as the n90 or something, not kd2
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023680


Still listed as KD 2 for only $40.02 in neutral white, otherwise same package with the spiffy battery pack:

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023857

ledoman posted this a while back, IIRC.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Good find! Maybe I should inquire as to whether or not they would sell the kick ass battery pack alone


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I think they could. KD is quite flexible. It is only the shipping services they can use for battery shipping. As far as I can recall the stock cells would give you about 4100+ mAh from the pack.

Found the test I've made on January this year:


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I sent them an email about the battery pack, preferably without cells (figured it would save us a few bucks and save them the hassle of shipping batteries as well) so we will see what they say.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Has any one here done a thorough teardown/analysis of this battery pack - does it balance charge? Wondering whether it is any better than either the unit with replaceable cells as what comes with KD's 880 clone (which they also sell separately) or the SolarStorm battery case.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Andy, I took a quick glance and it looks like the pcb's on the mudder pack and the original mj880 are identical for the most part. I will pull them apart after 10 uses and check the balance of the individual cells to confirm that they are holding balance and to further compare


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No reasonable cost battery pack has balance charging circuit, those are much more expensive. The one we use only has detection wether the cells are fully charged. The circuit stops charging when any of the pairs (if we talk about 2S2P) reaches the upper voltage limit regardles in what stage the other pair is. That's why it is good to check them regulary and balance them from time to time.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well then what battery packs come with balance charging, do hunk_lee's? Or just the packs that come with the very expensive sets like Lupine etc.?

Just got in an XTAR VC4, found my set of 3400mAh Panasonics had one cell out of balance (was like .05V above the rest.) Now they are all exactly at 4.2V each - supposedly.

Wonder now which might be best value, this KD 2 in NW or NW KD 880 clone, with or without battery packs and chargers. Wanna help my buds choose lamps but dunno that I could convince them to spring for a balance charger, even though the VC2 is only $20. Guess the KD 2 still makes the better helmet light, purchased as lamp head only plus Fenix battery case and four Panasonics not a bad deal but they'd still need to purchase a charger somewhere. That would entail four separate deliveries as well, which could arrive months apart, D'oh!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK even Lupine doesn't have balance charging packs. Well, at least they didn't have in the past when I've teard down one.

If you have battery pack consist of 4 single cells and 2S2P case balancing can be simply done outside the case if you are bit handy. Use some sort of battery holder and make all connects in paralell. For example take this DIY 4-Slot 18650 Battery Holder With Pins - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme and connect all four connectors on each side. Then put cells it this and they would balance themselves after some time. I hope you got it. It is the cheapest balancing soluton.  Of course you have to watch out all to be same orientation otherwise something would be melted.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'd imagine to actually charge anything balanced that you would need a hobby charger type setup with balancing leads anyway? Correct me if I'm wrong though


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

manbeer, yes for welded packs this is true. There are some small simple balancing chargers for 2S and 3S Li-Ion packs so you don't need more expensive hobby chargers. See the offer on ebay Actualy I've never tried one. I've ordered one but never got it.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok, that makes sense. They are sort of scaled down hobby chargers in a way. Regardless, if the pack only offers a normal MS type plug to charge it won't be balanced. This, imo, is a strong case for buying a case and cells separately, as you can take them out every so often to balance


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes for simple users without much equipment this might be a true. Using good quality cells minimize the need to balance them. Of course even the best cells have some degree of difference.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight manbeer I have a PLAN!!! 

I now have emitters for whatever. Dedomed 3c with regular 3c is much easier on the eyes for oncoming traffic. So:

Murder remaining stock just heat transfer copper plate added. Change emitters to 3c with one dedomed, change optics. No output boost or anything. Oh and probably install a ptt remote so I can control it from bars. Wish I can do the same for my tail light im doing. But since mudder case is capable of 2 lights not, I checked angel eye on high with ring on and mudder on high, its within protection limits. So best use for commuter.

Then modding angel eye for taillight use. Gotta figure out a dual switch for remote cause I want full light control (except case switch) from bars near grips.

Going to put the case on a switch so I dont have to unplug lights when not in use.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Oh I forgot to message you. KD is willing to sell the battery alone. I got the sku for it last night. The only thing is its 17 dollars. I think this includes the cells so it's not a bad deal I just wish it was a few bucks cheaper and didn't have the cells. Still, it's tough to justify since the mudder was 25 for the whole kit. I was going to give a pair of the mudder to my friend who's getting into night riding but I think I'm going to give him one of those and the oxyled mj880 clone. Will keep the extra mudder since these have more upgrade potential


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice.

Well my plan fell through 5 mins in.....my smt reds aren't going to work, not sure design used on emitter PCB yet but my reds are what they use for indicator leds.... Can't seem to find info on what's used for the ring yet.

And for some reason my angel eye just died...have no clue why, just main emitter stopped working but driver hums with mode changes.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

*Master/Slave modding two KD 10s*

Got my second one of these last week, neutral. Seems a bit brighter than the original one I got, love the tint too. 
Still no thermal paste on the emitter board. 
Internals are identical except they have added a component near the switch.

So tonight I had a bit of a play around on the bench with the two of them hooked up with a battery splitter cable and got them talking. One side of the switch connects to ground so by running just one wire between the other side of the switches on the two units you can control both from one (as they use the common battery ground). If you add a diode then one KD will control both but the other will just control itself (in case they get out of step). Was nice to see them changing modes together. Practically you could have one KD with a wide beam and one with a narrow and configure the modes to make a narrow or wide beam ( eg 1/5/10 on one and 1/10/5 on the other). Or just have double the light of course. Conveniently there is a small cut out on the circuit board that leaves just enough room to run a wire out from the switch. :thumbsup:


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That sounds like a promising setup for the bars until we have a reasonable 3 up. How is the voltage sag with a splitter?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

znomit said:


> Got my second one of these last week, neutral. Seems a bit brighter than the original one I got, love the tint too.
> 
> Still no thermal paste on the emitter board.
> 
> ...


Which side did you hook up to at the switches on the drivers, was trying to sort this out myself as well.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Which side did you hook up to at the switches on the drivers, was trying to sort this out myself as well.


The side thats not ground! I think the one closest to the middle of the board was what I used but you have the choice of two. 
I wonder if I can find some power cable that has a data line too...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I just haven't looked that close to figure out which side was which yet, need a better magnifying glass. Since u spoke up I figured id ask and save myself the literal headache tryin got follow the traces on the drivers.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Ya I just haven't looked that close to figure out which side was which yet, need a better magnifying glass. Since u spoke up I figured id ask and save myself the literal headache tryin got follow the traces on the drivers.


The ground side is direct to the negative power lead, so its easy to find using your multimeter.

I'm getting some funny interplay with two lights on one battery. At certain voltages and power levels the lights pulse slightly.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya its caused by voltage drop/current loss. ive seen it as well just 2 lights on one battery, its not your set up with the switch. Your basically pulling 2 lights at max amps through a bottleneck, wire has too high of resistance to carry that much power effectively, so both lights are being deprived of needed power.



My idea im going to try since I have a fried solarstorm case is gut it and run separate connectors for each side. So 4 cell case but each light ran on 2 cells by themselves, will alleviate that pulsing issue.

Its a "testing phase" type matter. But its one of my "ideas" for making my own 4x flat lighthead. Better drivers its my understanding, require more pack voltage (leds +1) but kd drivers are set to do 2 emitter 2 cell. Not most efficient but not sure on trying to make a bigger pack. Still I learning research mode on that project.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Manbeer, finally tore into my mudder, holy crap driver and everything is way better quality than the securitying version. All except the battery cable lol. Driver from my blue yinding and it are switching places atm.

Pic of Mudder KD2 with LDDNA optics and now has yinding driver installed with remote. GOing to be mounted to fork arch on my commuter. Not sure if IM liking that 60deg with a 45, plenty floody but spreads it out a bit much. Well see since its going to be running along with my angel eye on the bars.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah the funny thing is that I'm pretty sure the wire from the driver to the pcb in the mudder is twice as thick as the one going to the battery lol. Other than that no complaints though!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol, well mine has a yinding male connector now (my yinding has magicshine/dx male cable) so all good now. 

Oh and like every light I get, its got 20awg silicone to the PCB now lol. Ssx3 and bt40 have 18awg, gotta love "buy by the foot" at mtnelectronics.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm probably going to swap over the male connectors that I pulled off the fenix cases. They are pretty nice and no sense letting them go to waste


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Nvm


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They don't snap in though manbeer. Tried that already lol cause their 20awg. But they don't fit right


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Boo! They were nice and beefy!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ledoman (or others), can you tell me how the Kd2 programmable driver behaves at low voltage. I know it flashes red for low voltage warning, but does it ever cut off the light? 

Reason I ask, the Kd2 mcu used in my custom hd-016 doesn't seem to ever cut off the light. It just continues to flash for low voltage. If this is the case it could be good for those emergency situations where you'd rather sacrifice your batteries than be left in the dark. 

Thanks,
-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well if pack isn't cutting off then its not there yet. Thing is it takes FOREVER because of how these drivers work to actually get down to cuttoff voltage. You may only get 1 or 2 hours of "peak" but then current drops dramatically so you'll sit on red and blinking red for another hr. Hell on a 2 cell it takes damn near 2 hrs to get the pack down to near 3v per cell under load. 4 cell packs I just stopped trying lol, after about 6.3-6.5v (takes forever to get there) I give up and stop the test.

So safe operating time is ALOT LONGER than peak performance run time. But kd2 driver will cut off eventually.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Your certain the Kd2 driver cuts off? My modder never saw it cutoff (perhaps he didn't want to chance going so low on the cells. I'm not sure if it's an issue due to the mcu being removed from its original driver of if that even matters. It's still driving the voltage indicator LEDs fine. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK it doesn't cut off. When voltage is low light output is so dimm you'll notice it. 
Just an idea how to test drivers. Use some adjustable buck (step-down) circuit and gradulay decrease the voltage down from 8.4V and you'll see what happens. 
I have used similar to test drivers.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Good idea ledoman, thanks!

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I think it probably cuts out at 2.5v which takes freaking forever and is kind of pushing it. Ive noticed it on some lights they will hit a pretty deep discharge under load (static they come back up above 3v). I can't say for sure but I got some crappy china cells I can try it and find out. Haven't seen one yet that does cut off though it could be in the packs since all welded packs are protected.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

With circuit I've sugested you don't need any batteries. Just put common DC 12V power on input and adjust output to see what happens on the light side.

Garry, I might try it again this evening for KD2 driver, so you'll get correct answer.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, I've tested it again and it does not cut off at any input voltage. Of course it is very dimm at lower voltages. Hardly usable at 4.8V when it only glows. Light is still somewhat usable down to 5.5V. The lower voltages are only for emergency use.

Hope this helps to you.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks ledoman!

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Just noticed that this "KD2" light is discounted for $15.98 now.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, they (Kaidomain) said they would like to make the light more competitive. They prommised to send me pictures of internals with some thermal compound (grease) added which was previously missing.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I think a solid backing behind the LED plate would have been a better way to make it more competitive! That with the programmable driver and Yinding might have a run for its money!

-Garry


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I still have a couple of these kicking around. Wish I could find some red optics to use them as tails

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, of course better backplating would be nice, but this is the way they choose. They are aware of our mods with copper sheets. I think there is to much work for them to change internals significantly while the price stays the same.

manbeer, can you try out "optics" from that or similar? Or just paint the lenses with red permanent marker. Maybe Led-Dna lenses would be even better. 
BTW. Searching ebay I've came across this rechargeable rear light.


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## MikeVR (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi guys.
I bought same light. And have a problem with TIR replacing. TIR lens with 20mm diametr doesn't fit. It must be 19.7mm - it's easy to do.

But height... all my TIRs are 11.00-11.04mm, include plano-convex. And for ideal fit we need 12mm height.

So, for use my pinstripe TIR for example, I used 19.7mmx1.44mm glass from UltraFire light, but summary height (TIR+glass) is not best. Do you know items on Ali/Ebay with 19.7mmx12mm TIR? Not all sellers wrote sizes and not all who wrote - wrote it's right.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

First thing, most 20mm optics fit just fine in the 2 I have (that I dont waste time with anymore, yinding is so much better) but you have to remove the holders if your optics have then.

Secondly DO NOT use glass in front of TIR optics, 10%+ of output is lost doing that. You should need nothing more than the oring in front of the optic.

Finally- carclo optics fit best in these, can also get XML/xm-l2 optics from LEDDNA that will fit.


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## MikeVR (Nov 17, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> First thing, most 20mm optics fit


No, it's not fit in reality. I've tried. (I talk about this KD2 from link above). You need to grind to 19.7mm... - original's size.



tigris99 said:


> DO NOT use glass in front of TIR optics, 10%+ of output is lost doing that.


Yes, you are right, and I want buy 19.7*12mm pinstripe, but need item links 
I agreed buy 20x12mm - it's will be ok too. I bought and have many different TIRs (50+) but all them (19.7-21)*(10.6-11.04)...
Most items on stores maximum 11.2-11.4 in height


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They fit just fine because you not taking into account the height includes the raised front of the optics which fit through the optics hole. I have 2 of these KD2 and have tried several optics, every one has fit. Some fit very tight but they still fit without serious problems.

Otherwise find CARCLO optics. They fit as well but don't extend beyond the oring.


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## MikeVR (Nov 17, 2015)

For me low height lens fits only with air gap with silicone o-rings. I think it's not best solution 
About optics hole - original lens have small hole. Only for leds sphere. Lens with bigger holes (most in e markets) tries to "eat" led's box and after some work - burned len's PMMA a little.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not sure what optics your buying, but the ones from leddna work just fine. As well as ones from fasttech. Buying odd ones off aliexpress or alibaba are not ones we use, know anything about or recommend.


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## MikeVR (Nov 17, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> leddna work just fine


I have checked leddna - yes, they wrote 13.5mm height (include "legs"), but $4 for 3pcs vs $1.99 for 10pcs from other... I'm not sure that good idea to spend 25% from light' price. Better to buy another light 
p.s. my pinstripe was from Simon, good too. Most used on Convoy S2+, etc.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Leddna has other optics. And fasttech has them to


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## MikeVR (Nov 17, 2015)

I decided try leddna, thx! In any case I can use it in Convoy S2+ too...


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Finally got around to sorting out one of my NW ones this week. 
Shortened the cable to 20cm, didn't bother checking out the LED board mount because I could see thermal paste oozing from it. I cut out a mylar oval and siliconed it to the front because I'm sick of my other one filling up with water. Silicone under the mount and around the cable to seal it up, and some o-ring lube on the button too. Should be great now.


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## mtic (Oct 25, 2004)

Hi,

I'm looking for new helmet light and currently i use ssx2 from 2013 (this one: Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is [BLACK] SolarStorm X2 Bike Light 2*CREE XM-L U2 4 Modes LED 2000LM Dual Head Bicycle light/bicycle front light + FREE SHIPPING ) and would like to have sometning brighter and with better spreaded beam.

Are 2015 lights like KD2 or yinding or maybe ssx3 any improvements over mine in regards of brightness, electronics or beam? and where stands BT21, which is unavailable at the moment i believe??


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Matic, definitively are all better. Since BT21 is unavalaible ATM, I would put Yinding at front, followed by KD2 and SSX3. All need some sort of modification/inspection at least. Even Yinding I've found good to modify leds PCB. KD2 also needs heat transfer mod, but could be done if you are handy with soldering. If you need to know how send PM to me.
SSX3 has no TIR lenses so it doesn't have evenly spreaded beam and it's the biggest of all three.


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## mtic (Oct 25, 2004)

Thanks for info,

i wonder why do these lights need modifications and what kind? Ok, heat transfer as you said, is usually one of them and i think it's quite simple mod >>> use thermal paste. But what are other things that need to be improved?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

mtic said:


> i wonder why do these lights need modifications


Because they're cheap.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's much more than adding thermal paste! Can't add thermal paste when there's nothing there to add paste to.





First pic - that silver board is the backside of the emitter board. Second pic shows that board removed. There are pics earlier in this thread showing an easy way to add copper to pull heat to the outer shell (not perfect, but better).

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

See my post #261 back in this thread. I've somewhat simplified those by minimizing bottom part. Now it starts above bottom screw.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Imho its much easier just to buy a yinding. No mods needed or anything, actually a great light out of the box.

Ssx3 beam pattern makes a good helmet light because of the beam pattern BUT its heavier/bigger.

Get a yinding, some 10deg optics from fasttech or 2 spot optics for glowworm x2 (more expensive but best out there)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

[


> QUOTE=mtic;12397067]
> Are 2015 lights like KD2 or yinding or maybe ssx3 any improvements over mine in regards of brightness, electronics or beam? and where stands BT21, which is unavailable at the moment i believe??


[/QUOTE]

Unavailable ATM - yes. I only have experience with the Yinding and the BT21 but trust Ledoman and Tigris that the Yinding is the best of all the mentioned lights but the BT21. You asked about the BT21 and seem to be looking for the light with the best performance so if you don't mind waiting to see how the new BT21s performs this would be my suggestion. The Yinding is a good light and a safe buy if you want improved performance over your current light buuuut my BT21's far out-perform (far better lux readings on my light meter, slightly wider beam, Brighter, far more throw, runs cooler) my Yinding to the point where I don't even consider using it anymore! I want to point out that the last batch of BT21 had quality problems (bad connectors and switches) but it will be immediately detectable if those problems are not fixed when Tigris gets one of the new models for review.
Mole


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## mtic (Oct 25, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> [
> 
> Unavailable ATM - yes. I only have experience with the Yinding and the BT21 but trust Ledoman and Tigris that the Yinding is the best of all the mentioned lights but the BT21. You asked about the BT21 and seem to be looking for the light with the best performance so if you don't mind waiting to see how the new BT21s performs this would be my suggestion. The Yinding is a good light and a safe buy if you want improved performance over your current light buuuut my BT21's far out-perform (far better lux readings on my light meter, slightly wider beam, Brighter, far more throw, runs cooler) my Yinding to the point where I don't even consider using it anymore! I want to point out that the last batch of BT21 had quality problems (bad connectors and switches) but it will be immediately detectable if those problems are not fixed when Tigris gets one of the new models for review.
> Mole


ok, this sounds good but who knows when new model will be available? I won't wait till summer that's for sure


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mtic said:


> ok, this sounds good but who knows when new model will be available? I won't wait till summer that's for sure


Just wanted to point out that the BT21 is a major performance up-grade over the Yinding. If you need/want a new light now I'm sure you'll be happy with the Yinding, if it's worth waiting a few months for the chance of getting a better light than do that. Owing both lights I'd wait but the choice is up to you.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bt21s is due in February. I own both and love ny yinding too.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. Let stick with KD2 from now on. Not that I don't want to hear about new lights, but I would rather see new thread about them.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Sorry lol, didnt pay attention to what thread we were in. So many of them now


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## maxumis (Apr 13, 2010)

Ordered mine on 25 November 2015 and they finally arrived today (21 Jan 2016).
I ordered 2 neutral white units without batteries and 1 6800mA battery pack.

Overall I'm really happy with the size, weight and apparent quality of the light units and battery pack. They did take their time to get to South Africa, but looks like it was worth the wait.

I'll be putting them through their paces at a 24hr race next week.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I would advise you to modify lights for better heat trensfer from leds to the outer shell as noted in this thread. Since you are now on the warmer side of the globe this might be important to your 24hr race. If you don't run it on high for a longer time you might be on safe side, but in any case heat transfer is to be improved. I've used 0.1mm copper sheet. At least push some copper sheet between housing and PCB.


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## maxumis (Apr 13, 2010)

Hi Ledo,
Yup, I'll definitely have to look at improving the thermal efficiency.
I took them out last night for about an hour and I was slightly taken aback that the casings were warm running on level 6. I was averaging about 26km/h so airflow was surely not a problem.
I'll swap out the plastic bar mounts with aluminium ones and see what I can figure regarding heat transfer to the casing. I don't have copper sheets lying around. I do however have some heat conductive epoxy...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

The heat transfer from led PCB to the casing is crucial when run at higher levels. If you don't have copper sheet (ATM) I would advise you to use some soda can sheet instead, at least temporary. While heat conductive epoxy is much better than nothing I would not use it. There are two reasons: 
- the gap between PCB and casing is to big to be filled with heat conducting stuff (inefective, the alloy is much beter conductor)
- you can't diasassemble the light later on. OK, maybe if you mix epoxy with ordinary thermal paste you can get semi hard result when epoxy hardens

And if you have thermal paste around apply it to the copper triangle on the led PCB. This will improve heat transfer from PCB to the casing.


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## maxumis (Apr 13, 2010)

So the 24 hour went well.
I had one of these lights on the bars and one on the lid. Each running off their own 6800mA pack. I ran them on level 5 90% of the time and level 6 the other 10% and they lasted from 7pm to 5am. (The bar mounted light ran off a 2 year old pack and that ran out of juice at 5am. The other pack is a fresh KD 6800mA pack and was still fine.)
Running only 1 light at a time left me a little underwhelmed, but I was more than happy with the beam pattern running both handlebar and helmet lights together.
The neutral white emitters are exactly that, not warm, not cold, just right and my eyes never felt fatigued; something I am sensitive to with cool white light.
So all in all 2 thumbs up from a 24 hour second place :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Shortened the cable on one of these today. Had a nosey around and think I found the sense resistor next to the inductor. Replaced the 0.11Ω with a 0.3Ω.
Low mode now only draws 36mA. This will run for a week off my 5800 mAhr battery. Great for those longer missions. :thumbsup:

High draws ~450mA.

I'll try a 0.2Ω in there tomorrow to see if that gets me up to half power.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Why modify it when the driver is programmable. Doesn't make sense to cut the power so low (and removing and resoldering resistors isn't good on the circuits) when you can just program the driver to your output

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Why modify it


There are a few reasons to drop the output. Its a secondary roadie light and I really never use it on the highest level except for the occasional huge downhill. Its usually programmed for 1/3/5. Most of the time its on level 1 just in case my primary goes out (its a dynamo light so not likely). I'll bump it to 5 if the pace goes up or the road gets sketchy.

I've halved the level 1 current draw so now the light can stay on all day (those miserable winter days) without worrying about significant battery drain.

But the biggest reason for changing is to reduce the strobing. Unless you're on the higher modes its quite annoying, so now I can have it on the equivalent of level 5 all night without any strobing.

I have another KD10 that I'll keep stock for shorter rides, but this will be used for the multi day rides.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Got KD2 light with new driver.

Back side with 2 sense resistors (R250 abd R330) and new coil. Since there is still LEDA chip the current to the leds is 1.76A = (0.25V / 0.142Ohm). Leds are still connected in series.









Front side with switch and "processor".







RT shows thermal resistor for thermal protection.

Button is better now and it is easier to use. It is 1.5mm protuded from the rear plate.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Got KD2 light with new driver.
> 
> Back side with 2 sense resistors (R250 abd R330) and new coil. Since there is still LEDA chip the current to the leds is 1.76A = (0.25V / 0.142Ohm). Leds are still connected in series.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the regulation is any better on this new one? I noticed with the previous driver the light would go way out of regulation long before the LEDs on the back would indicate low battery voltage. Like current draw from battery would drop to 1/2 or less and it would still show green.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Is the build quality any better on the light? Waterproofing and heat sinking were very poor on the original, compared with the Yinding.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ufortunately internal construction is still the same. As I've described before in this thread post #261 with some modification it can be somewhat fixed.

Electricaly I have yet to inspect situation. Previous light setup had substantial voltage drop over to long wire. In conjunction with the batteries that had also low voltage curve this could be significant for brightness as the voltage on input is lower than the sum of leds Vf. Will try to see new situation in a few days.....


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

So far I could measured voltage drop from connector to the driver. At about 1.5A from the battery there was 0.17V drop from 8.0V. Voltage to the leds was 6.22V at that time.
As I can recall someone has measured 0.4V voltage drop on previous one but I'm not shure if he has measured also part of the cable that belongs to the battery pack.


----------



## Oli.Hall (Nov 16, 2016)

Ughh.

I just ordered a KD2 and a Yinding with the sole intention of putting the KD driver into the Yinding to get programmable levels.

It would look like the new layout of the KD driver in particular the location of C1 and R6 will stop holes being drilled for mounting in the Yinding casing whereas the older version of the driver has the additional holes already drilled.

I would be interested to know of anyone else has managed to swap the new KD driver into a Yinding?

Oli.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ledoman said:


> As I can recall someone has measured 0.4V voltage drop on previous one but I'm not shure if he has measured also part of the cable that belongs to the battery pack.


It was just the cable on the light head.
Review: KD 2 x Cree XML-U2 4+10-Mode 2200 Lumens Bicycle Light (picture heavy) - Page 2- Mtbr.com


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

znomit, thanks. I had to reread your post. Good for the reference.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Oli.Hall said:


> Ughh.
> 
> I just ordered a KD2 and a Yinding with the sole intention of putting the KD driver into the Yinding to get programmable levels.
> 
> ...


Don't know about swapping with new driver, but you can probably still order http://kaidomain.com/p/S023801.Circuit-board-for-KD-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U2-4-10-Mode-Bike-Light . I would check it out, though.

I've tried to compare old and new driver holes positions by eyes. To make additional holes for Yinding I would reposition capacitor C1 to the the other side directly between U+ and U- contacts. Should be no problem, you could probably use even larger one. It has to be 10V at least. More problematic could be vias near R6, but I should use caliper to prove that. The resistor itself is not a problem. Will come back later with precise answer.

Oli, report it back which driver you have got when your light arrives.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

Hey,

I have 2 YinDings of the first Generation and I am happy with them. I want to go with one on the Helmet an two or maybe three on the bar.

I am a little bit confused, I have lost the overview. Which optics do what, which LEDs, which light color? 

What are the changes to the actual YINDINGs? Where can I buy it, it seems to be sold out?! Or are there better lights with 2 LEDs out there?
Could someone please summarize the Pros and Cons of the YinDings the KD2 and the BL2s and the SolarStorm X5?

What is the best offer?

Thank you!

http://kaidomain.com/p/S024280.Sola...ral-White-4-Mode-1800-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black

http://kaidomain.com/p/S026168.BL2s-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U3-White-6500K-2-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black
http://kaidomain.com/p/S023773.KD-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U2-4-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Pinkman, would you mind opening new thread about your questions? Thread here is long enough and can easily derail into endless unrelated discussions. Thank you. Here we are discussing KD2 and how to use driver in Yiniding because are the same size.


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Pinkman, would you mind opening new thread about your questions? Thread here is long enough and can easily derail into endless unrelated discussions. Thank you. Here we are discussing KD2 and how to use driver in Yiniding because are the same size.


Yes of course.


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## Oli.Hall (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks ledoman - I will update the thread with details of the driver fitted to my KD2 light as soon as it arrives.

Thanks also for linking the separate driver. I had searched for that part on KD but I couldn't find it and all the links from earlier in this thread are dead, so I assumed it wasn't available separately any more and ordered the whole light instead! - I figured that I could put the driver from the Yinding back in it and use it as a backup.

Oli.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Oli, here are the pictures of a driver with marks where the holes for Yinding should be drilled. I've tried to be precise as much as I could. Click on the picture to see it on large.









There are few things to be careful.
- leftmost pic: the hole would be very close to the trace
- third from left: I had to remove capacitor which can be relocated on the other side above letters B1. I would somehow isolate or scratch off positive part where capacitor was to avoid making short.
- dimensions of thewhole driver are about 1.4mm bigger but can be sanded/filed down.

So I see it doable, but you need to be very precise and carefull.

BTW, I've replaced stock capacitor with 16V 22uF Tantalum cause I had it at hand from another driver. It works.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Another few pictures how to thermaly improve the light with some 0.1mm copper sheet.

Plan and parts:








How to solder it (you need quite powerful soldering station):








How it fits to the leds PCB:








Anyway, if you can't solder even U part is better than nothing. If you don't have copper use soda/beer can sheet to fill the gap between PCB and housing.


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## Oli.Hall (Nov 16, 2016)

ledoman - Thanks again for the pics of the component placement. Are you transplanting this driver into another host or are you leaving it in the KD2?

Do you have any early indication whether the new driver has any improvements over the older design or is the change likely to be production cost related?

If there are no efficiency or UI improvements then I think that I will just drop $8 on the older driver if it is still available and save an hour of fiddling to get the new driver to fit!

Oli.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It was put back in the KD2 light and intended for a friend. UI is the same, efficiency I don't know, I didn't measure it. We can ask mr. Ban if he knows anything about it.

In general I like it more than the old one because coil is now smaller and has more surface to disipate heat to the driver PCB. Also there is more room now behind the leds PCB. Also elements are placed differently allowing desoldering/resoldering wires more easily. 

If $8 is not a problem, I would order at least one old driver in case transplanting fails. Shurely I would check it if the old one is still on stock.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

BTW, info how to revive dead KD links. For example:

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.*S023807*

to

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/*S023807*.z

So basicaly you need to put product number between
"*/p/*" and "*.z*"


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

I would use a pan and some very thin solder...put that copper construction on a hot pan with solder on it...catch the right time and put the led pcb on it. 
(You could use water for instant cooling after soldering..something like a bucket with a bit water)

Liquid metal pad could be an option, too.
(Look for pc CPU cooling...much too expensive...but more save due its "burn in" degree)

I'm sure you know all things about heat transfer and stuff...but I'm curious about the contact between your copper construction and the body of the KD 2.

Hmmmm,  a liquid metal pad between the led emitter and heatsink would be "overkill"! 

I'm sure "no one else" did this...^^

Well Ledoman, you could use also some copper fittings + 0,5mm thermal pad around the leds...the glasses, reflector, copper fitting will do pressure on the led pcb and make sure that the copper fitting has good contact to the KD 2 body!
(DO NOT BUY "Alphacool Eisschicht 17w/mk"! It's simply garbage!)

Think about it!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Jimmy Kester said:


> ......I'm sure you know all things about heat transfer and stuff...but I'm curious about the contact between your copper construction and the body of the KD 2.


I don't think his goal was an ultimate light, just to try to make a POS slightly better.

Best heat management I've found for lights is using a direct to copper star for the emitter and Arctic Silver compound between the star and a housing that has the heatsink fins directly behind it. There may be a couple of thermal compounds slightly better than Arctic Silver, but I've already got it and no need to buy something else when AS is very near the top in heat conduction. IMO the type of thermal paste is less important than the direct to copper star and the short path to the heatsink fins that I use in my builds.


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Yep, but I would use a copper fitting like this:


Of coure you need to make a hole through this thing...and using a 0,5mm thermal pad + Arctic MX 4 between the KD2 and copper fitting is easy to do! 

Pressure and contact is the most important thing!
Also thermal paste...there are many "high end - BAD BATCH" thermal paste out there. Trust me!

btw. I have very good experience with that phobya thermal pad xt 7w/mk, Arctic MX 4 and also a lot of bad experience with so called high end thermal paste....it's about the batch that you get...nobody would sell a very durable thermal paste  It's the same with traffic light bulbs...:madmax:


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## Oli.Hall (Nov 16, 2016)

Hi,

I just received my KD2 and it does also have the new driver. Many of these findings were already mentioned by Ledoman in his previous post, but here are my findings when test fitting the driver into the Yinding casing:

The PCB of the new KD2 driver is slightly larger than the Yinding. 
It might be possible to file/sand down the KD2 driver to fit the Yinding case, but from the photos there is a trace very close to the edge which might make this difficult. 
The new KD2 driver doesn't have the second set of holes to mount to the Yinding casing. 
The location where the holes need to be drilled are above some SMD components and traces making it difficult to drill the required holes without moving components and or traces. 
When mounted in the Yinding case, the button does not line up centrally with the hole in the case and the plunger is too long to go under the Yinding button. 
I have taken some photos of the two drivers and in Photoshop I overlaid the Yinding driver as a red area over the KD2 driver so you can see the location of the holes that need to be drilled. Unfortunately I didn't have my soldering iron available when I took the photos so I could not desolder the wires to allow me to fully trial-fit the KD2 driver into the Yinding case.

On this basis, I think it would be difficult but not impossible to fit this new driver into the Yinding case. I would be interested to see if anyone is able to do it.

As Ledoman suggested, I have emailed KD to ask if the older type of driver is still available for purchase separately.

Here are some photos of the two boards overlapping each other and also the position of the switch in relation to the button hole.

N.B The red overlay was scaled to line up with the visible hole locations of the KD2 driver. As such the location of the missing holes might not be exact and anyone attempting to transplant the drivers should make their own judgment of whether this is possible and where the holes should be located.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I just spotted this updated version on KD's website (model BL2S). Was this posted before and I missed it? Wonder if they addressed the lousy heatsinking? Ledoman, you getting a sample to review?

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026169....s-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black

-Garry


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

garrybunk said:


> I just spotted this updated version on KD's website (model BL2S). Was this posted before and I missed it? Wonder if they addressed the lousy heatsinking? Ledoman, you getting a sample to review?
> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026169....s-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black
> -Garry


The best thing about the KD10 is the programmable driver, which this thing lacks. Cycling through off makes it useless too.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, I wonder why they didn't keep the programmable with this one. Perhaps we should ask BanL to have KD release an updated version replacing driver with the programmable one and emitters updated to XP-L2's.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

It already sucked to begin with unless you like modding, was just good to steal the driver out for yindings.

They used to cost more too which is probably why they went to crap. The majority of ppl only care about price and whatever Bs lumen rating posted. It's sad that even the KD2 has become a waste of aluminum and LEDs now too.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> I just spotted this updated version on KD's website (model BL2S). Was this posted before and I missed it? Wonder if they addressed the lousy heatsinking? Ledoman, you getting a sample to review?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026169....s-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black


Yes I've got that one. It has same leds PCB as KD2 but better heatsinking and different driver including different UI. There are some issues with it and KD is checking their stock if it was only mine or there is issue with others too. Haven't heard from mr. Ban for more than a week now. Could be better than KD2 if it had same UI.


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## nabonid (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi, are there any news about the BL2S? Looking for a second light, received my KD2 and still working on it.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Don't know if the current stock of BL2S already runt out. I would not recommend if it is still the old one. There is issue in the housing which has to be corrected in the next batch. I've also suggested to KD to change user interface, but got no feedback.
So check it out first if you are about to buy BL2S in the near future.


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## Oli.Hall (Nov 16, 2016)

For anyone who is interested, I finally did the driver swap of the new style of KD2 programmable 10 level driver into the Yinding.

This was because on a recent road ride where on a 30mph section of unlit downhill I tried to change levels and I thought I was on low and pressed the buttons on both light heads twice to go to high but I must have been in medium and the double press turned both light heads off and it went very dark very quickly!!

This gave me the necessary motivation to swap the drivers over! However it was very fiddly and very time consuming as the KD2 driver needs to be sanded down on all edges and a new mounting hole drilled very precisely.

You must remove approximately 0.4mm from each edge of the PCB to make it fit in the case and this will involve sanding past the point where you start to sand away some of the traces nearest to the edge of the PCB but if done carefully this is possible without narrowing the traces too much. The most difficult part was drilling the mounting hole in the right place. To do this, I stacked both drivers on top of each other and secured them using the long case screws. I then marked the point on the KD2 driver using an suitably sized drill bit passed through the hole in the Yinding driver. I then drilled a tiny 1mm pilot hole in the Yinding driver and assessed whether it was in the right place for the hole in the case. The hole will almost certainly be off center by some amount which is why I started with a 1mm hole and then used a round file with a pointed tip to enlarge this hole out to the size needed and at the same time moved the hole so it was centered with the hole on the case.

It took about two hours per light head to do the swap. When I was sure the driver fitted in the case, I painted the sanded edges of the driver with some lacquer (clear nail varnish) to seal the edges and also to cover the now exposed edges of the copper traces. I hoped that this would stop any problems with shorting on the case but when I reassembled the case, the fit was so tight that the thickness of the lacquer actually stopped the driver from fitting back in the case and i had to remove some of the lacquer before it would fit back in.

The switch is offset from the hole in the case and is longer than the Yinding switch, but it is functional with the Yinding silicone button.

Both light heads worked well after the swap and there was no problem with the exposed traces shorting on the case. I don't know whether this was because of the anodising on the case or the lacquer but it seemed to be fine.

Some observations:
The Yinding driver has a higher power output than the KD2 when on high with a full charge - 15w compared to 10w.
The KD2 driver seems to have better regulation than the Yinding - The wattage seems to be more constant throughout the first part of the discharge but falls out of regulation fairly quickly.
The KD2 driver's status LEDs very quickly turn to amber and red even when battery voltage is still relatively high.

Apologies for not having time to quantify any of these observations with voltages etc. but they were made with a portable watt-meter I had connected while out for a 10 hour night ride. The lights held up for over eight hours on level 4/10 from a 6500mah battery. They started drawing about 1A when fully charged but this dropped to about half by the end of the discharge due to loss of regulation.

Hope this helps anyone who might want to attempt this swap to get programmable levels on their Yinding.

Thanks,
Oli.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Oli, great job! Looks pretty difficult but as predicted could be solved.

You may raise the wattage with some resistor mod if you like.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Oli, great job! Looks pretty difficult but as predicted could be solved.
> 
> You may raise the wattage with some resistor mod if you like.


Yeah, but with the Yinding case/body it's likely better to let that sleeping dog lie.


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## X83 (May 14, 2018)

I just modified some KD 10-step programmable drivers to fit inside the Yinding YD-2xU2 lights and it was very simple with the use of these PC standoffs. There's no need to drill extra holes or relocate capacitors and the power switch was perfectly centered with the silicone press button. Also the two M2x16mm long stainless screws that bolt on the back-cover plate will need to be trimmed down to 8mm long.

I'm going to swap out the 1/4W R250 & R330 current sense resistors with some 1/2W 1206 size resistors with a slightly lower value to raise amperage to the LEDs. Also these angled fin black anodized heatsinks should help out with some extra cooling.

M2x7mm PC standoff part number: 971070244

Angled fin heatsink part number: ATS-56000-C1-R0


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Good one! So when you ordered new driver from KD you've got new design despite picture at KD shows old one with toroid? 

To bad we can't get Yinding anymore. This was the best mass selled low priced light for helmet use.


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## X83 (May 14, 2018)

Yes, they're sending the KD2 lights and bare 4+10-mode drivers with the newer style green color circuit boards.

The Yinding 2xU2 lights are still available from the manufacturer but they won't ship them to the USA anymore because they don't have the proper logistics to go out of customs and quite a few packages have been seized.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Can you send manufacturer contact? Maybe KD can jump in and play middle man.


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## X83 (May 14, 2018)

ledoman said:


> Can you send manufacturer contact? Maybe KD can jump in and play middle man.


Here's the website link: äº§å"�ä¸­å¿ƒ-æ·±åœ³é"¶é"­ç§'æŠ€æœ‰é™�å&#8230;¬å�¸


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

X83 said:


> I just modified some KD 10-mode drivers to fit inside the Yinding YD-2xU2 lights and it was very simple with the use of these PC standoffs. There's no need to drill extra holes or relocate capacitors and the power switch was perfectly centered with the silicone press button. Also the two M2x15.5mm long stainless screws that bolt on the back plate will need to be trimmed 7mm shorter. I'm going to swap out the 1/4W R250 & R330 current sense resistors with some 1/2W 1206 size resistors with a slightly lower value to raise amperage to the LEDs. Also these angled fin black anodized heatsinks should help out with some extra cooling.
> 
> M2 PC standoff part number: 971050244


Here's the link to the PC standoff. https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?keywords=971050244

And the link to the Yinding light at the mfg site in English:

Products-


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Anybody taken one of these newer KD lights apart yet?
I'm curious if they fixed the waterproofing and thermal path.

http://kaidomain.com/Bike-Lights/BL...-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light


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## X83 (May 14, 2018)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Anybody taken one of these newer KD lights apart yet?
> I'm curious if they fixed the waterproofing and thermal path.
> 
> http://kaidomain.com/Bike-Lights/BL...-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light


I'd also like to see an exploded view of the KD BL2s because the KD2s still have the same design with loose front lenses that are hard to access without dissembling the whole light and the waterproofing is almost nonexistent with no O-rings for the lower mount or back cover. Also, the thermal heat path for the emitter base has almost no contact surface area and the two screws that held it in place were cross threaded on an angle. My guess would be the BL2s would have the same type thermal heat path without O-rings on the base or lens cover plate.

Here's an exploded picture view for comparison between the Yinding YD-2xU2 on the left side with the Kaidomain KD2 on the right side. Note: the Yinding light has a direct contact surface area for the emitter base and it uses more silicone O-rings for an IPX6 waterproof rating.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

BL2s has different internal construction. Only led PCB is the same. It has more contact to the housing. Don't have one at hand to take pictures....


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

ledoman said:


> BL2s has different internal construction. Only led PCB is the same. It has more contact to the housing. Don't have one at hand to take pictures....


How was the waterproofing?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Pretty much the same as KD2. Lenses are moving a bit and bottom hole is the same. 
Please keep in mind I'm talking about very first batch of BL2s avalaible at KD. Now things might be different. Using different lenses might change waterproofing on the front.


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## nerka105 (Sep 8, 2011)

BL2S 2 X CREE XM-L2 U3 2 GROUPS OF 2 TO 3-MODE 2200 LUMENS BIKE LIGHT - BLACK from kaidoman
http://kaidomain.com/Bike-Lights/BL2s-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U3-White-6500K-2-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light
Buy 2019.01 ,very poor water protection i did not find any o-ring, heat transfer better kd2 but not ideal(cover and lenses press leds plate to corpus,but not ideal lenses remain little free,need install o-rings) In max power usage 1.59A,maybe you know which resistor need replace for more power?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

R13 and R14 marked R250 are sense resistors set in parallel. This makes resistance of 0.125 Ohm or about 2A to the leds if IC3 is marked LEDA.

You can add some R500 resistor over existing. You can calculate resistance of all together (Rs) at PARALLEL RESISTOR CALCULATOR. Then calculate I to the leds with

I = 0.25/Rs

Since heat transfer is somewhat poor I would not go with current over 2.5A to the leds (not the same as from the battery). Adding single R500 is already calculated to Rs = 0.1 resulting in 2.5A.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Would it help to add a piece of copper sheet between the emitter board & case contact (copper piece cut to match full size of pcb)? This might take up some of the slack in the loose lenses and help a bit with thermal transfer to the case. Cheap sheets of copper should be easy to find too.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

0.1mm sheet is bit to thin to keep it flat. 0.2mm could be to much to fit with lenses. Should be tried. Anyway some distance should be kept away from the driver not making short. So the copper should be perfectly flat.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

That's where the kapton tape comes into play  .

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree, I'm using it in KD2 if needed. Hmm, what influence will have heat so close to the elements, specialy thermistor RT which is used for thermal protection? RT can be seen on the picture above on top row among resistors and capacitors.


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## nerka105 (Sep 8, 2011)

I place 1mm copper plate,and lenses well press to emitter board,I think cooling now is good.
for R500 resistor,I found 0.125W,or need more powerful?I see in Ali 1W power sell


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Interesting, I thought the gap to pressfit lenses was lot thinner than 1mm. Watch out not to ruin silicone on the leds. And use thermal paste on final assemlby.

1/8W resisitor might be fine since the power is divided over 3 resistors, but 1/4W should be better. 0.25V*2.5A = 0.625W over resistors on full.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm thinking of picking up a BL2S for a cheap dual LED body and driver to try out SST20's and SST40's in. Any thoughts? I'm trying to figure out what kind of beam pattern and throw to expect out of the SST40's. And do I understand correctly that the BL2S will NOT come with the 10-step programmable driver and the driver it does come with has off as part of the mode cycle?

Thanks,
-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Garry, BL2s is good to deal with since you can open it at front side. Also it has bit better thermal transfer. Unfortunately driver is with off in the mode cycle and no 10-step. At least it was so when I've tested it few years ago.

SST20 would shurely have more throw as it has smaller surface and 3535 dimension. SST40 would probably have about the same as XM-L2. I don't know what size surface it has. Do you know?

PS.
Have you had chance to play with XM-L3?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

XM-L3? Didn't even realize it was out! I'm falling behind on the tech - just too busy and trying to follow the old saying of "just get out and ride"! 

I believe the SST40 is the same footprint as an XML (5050). 

Perhaps I need to check out the Samsung LH351D LEDs too! 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK, you didn't miss much with XM-L3. It is close to SST40 - see: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/73966

I've got 90 CRI Samsung LH351D 4000 and 5000K. Changed two cool white XM-L2 of my friends light and he is happy with it. I'm using one in my EDC working headlight and it gives pleasant tint. You should try it out.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Tried making a better heat sink, created a time sink. Had a surprisingly hard time getting a decent picture of the light. My phone was being goofy with the shiny aluminum surrounded by black, that blown up picture of a 17mm GXB172 driver pcb settled it down nicely.

Go Pro mount is a hacked up aluminum double mount purchased before the shipping rates went nuts on aliexpress.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32508960493.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d0re1wv
Vanc makes much nicer stuff but shipping, duty and the Canadian exchange rate makes it too expensive.

Optics are spot and smooth spot ultrafires from FastTech, pretty sure they are the same as the ones Ituo used. 5D v2 xpl hi emitters on noctigons.

Played with the sense resistor and had it running pretty hard but there was a weird flicker on low so I had to ditch it. It did the stroboscope thing on my front tire, i could see the tread blocks while riding. It was also very irritating when riding without a bar light, seemed to make everything close to me fuzzy.

The xml3's are a big bust so far, no real improvement over xml2 output wise. Mouser is just starting to stock them but nothing below 5700k yet.


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

How does the bl2s driver function? Is it current driven? I mean if I swap the emitters to sst-40 which have lower Vf, will it drive them with higher current or what happens? Mine is boosted to 3A, ofcourse I can remove the boost if that happens.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is current driven like Yinding, KD2 and many others with 6 pin LEDA chip controling feedback voltage over sense resistors.

I've taken picture from above where you can see sense resistors and LEDA - marked IC3 at upper right corner.








Two resistors R250 in parallel acting as one R125 (ie 0.125 Ohm). Since LEDA chip has 0.25V feedback voltage current to the leds is 2A. I've already wrote about that in post #497 above.
Lower Vf doesn't have affect on current inthis case, but it would mean longer run.


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Yeah I've boosted that from sense resistors couple years ago. Just wasnt sure how does lower Vf act in this kind of driven lamp. Anyone have idea on whats the max current that these kd and bl2s drivers can be driven? I might use the kd driver in a 4 led light if it can handle high enough current.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I would not ask how far driver can go, but how much power housing can stand without additiona cooling. Currently there is about 12W (2A * 6V) to the leds - two in series. There is some more from the battery as there are loses in wires and driver itself (also making heat). Since 2A driven leds already make quite some heat for this small housing I would no dare to go over 2.5A and run on high only when moving. 
On the other hand pushing leds to high is contraproductive if you can't disipate heat away properly (and those lights are not good in this). Heating up is lowering output and you might just fall back to the same output as before only wasting energy in heat and loosing runtime.

Driver itself is very likely limited with SS34 diode at 3A, AFAIK.

PS. sorry I've not read your post carefuly. Changing SS34 to SS44 might elevate possibilities, but sense resistors might blow if they can't stand power over them.


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## Jukis (Sep 26, 2016)

Yeah I'm in Finland and its always cold when we need lights and I only use high mode in the downhills and turn it on lower modes after downhills, bl2s seems to be fine with 3A, which should boost it to about real 2200lm. Oh I also have proper 20awg wires in all my lamps.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Finally got my BL2S lighthead! Optics seem different - the center is "hollow" down in quite a bit. Not played with the light at all yet and really don't know when I will be able to.



















-Garry


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## A.Argo (6 mo ago)

The KD2 is a flashlight that has been on the market for several years.
Almost everything has been written in these pages.
I add my brief experience:
1) my unit is not waterproof, despite the site declaring IPX6. There is no gasket in the lower part, where the support and the current cable are present.
2) I had a very bad experience with customer support, who never replied to my emails.
However after complaining about the management on budgetlightforum they contacted me promptly.
3) If I consider only the quality of the light beam, I can say that my unit is a good product, the 5000k light is really pleasant to observe a beautiful neutral white with a very slight pink tint which however is not visible if you do not compare the lighthouse to other headlights. there is not that glitzy greenish tint that often accompanies the LEDs.
It has a CRI of 75 and not the classic 70 (or less as in many cheap flashlights) and there is no flickering.

For the price, I would say the light is very good, however several aspects of the construction should be improved.
Ultimately if you are looking for something very cheap and if the defects (such as the lack of waterproofing) are not a problem for you, with a good battery pack it can be a smart option to put on the helmet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks A.Argo. I never did anything with mine. 

-Garry


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks for reminding me of kaidomain. I haven't bought anything from them in a while but may want to play with one of their little single emitter lights.


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