# 2015 Garmin Watches



## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

So like a fool, I subscribe to DC Rainmaker's blog. I noticed this morning that a slew of new garmin's are coming out. I'm sad I didn't see an update to edge series. I'm even more depressed to see a new Fenix model, the Fenix 3.

Hands-on with Garmin?s new Fenix3 multisport GPS watch with color screen | DC Rainmaker

I have had the Fenix 2 for just under a year. It's done everything with me from swimming laps to downhill skiing to canoeing in the middle of nowhere. I've had three complaints about the watch, though. First, the screen is hard to read at times and second the upload via bluetooth is slow. Then, the GPS strength is a bit flakey at times. The Fenix 3 fixes those issues and adds all sorts of new fluff to the watch.

Now all I need to do is find a way to talk my wife into letting me get one 

I saw someone post on the internet about the "n+1" equation for bikes and suggested that we have now entered the "g+1" realm. I see some truth to that. :lol:

They also announced an new model call Epix that looks interesting. This could be an interesting hiking and wilderness watch. Possibly a geocacher. 
Hands-on with the Garmin Epix GPS mapping & multisport watch | DC Rainmaker


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

thanks for this post... i also see the new vivoactive gps watch... it has run/swim/bike settings... how do you think this will compare to these other gps watches?


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

mrmattjohnson said:


> thanks for this post... i also see the new vivoactive gps watch... it has run/swim/bike settings... how do you think this will compare to these other gps watches?


It looks nice too.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/01/vivoactive-smartwatch-vivofit2.html

I'm not interested in a accelerometer watch for activity tracking and think it looks a touch fragile, but feature wise, it is nicely equipped.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am intrigued by the vivoactive. I'll be keeping my eyes on that device once people start using it in the real world. Seems like it'll hit the casual fitness market better than their other watches.

I'm not sure what I think about the Epix. The Fenix I get. It's a nice idea, but not quite what I'm after in a device. Functionally, the Epix does the things I want in a backcountry device, but I'm not sure what to make of putting detailed topo maps onto something with such a small screen. Is that really going to be useful for anything? I'm not sure. I know a lot of folks I talk to at the shop want bigger, more readable screens on their computers. Those folks certainly won't be pleased by the maps on the Epix.

What I'd really like would be for my Oregon's active tracklog memory to count by number of laps rather than number of trackpoints. The device mostly works well for rides where I want maps. But when the tracklog fills and it auto-archives the oldest stuff, I can't then pull that stuff back up to see where I am intersecting or backtracking somewhere I've already been. It's a minor annoyance really, and would be addressed if I bought one of the mapping Edge models. But I like to have a handheld with replaceable batteries because of the versatility.

I am especially intrigued by the Connect IQ thing coming soon, with apps (weather? interesting).

The Edge 1000 is a fairly recent entrant to the Edge line, so I wouldn't necessarily expect any new Edges JUST yet. With the number of watches that will support this Connect IQ feature, I have to wonder if an Edge that supports it might be forthcoming.


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

For some reason, I tend to destroy watches.
I seem to always smack them against something.
Crystal gets scratched up easy because of that.
I cant stand having the face of the watch on the inside of my wrist. If I could that would save the crystal.
So, I always tend to buy cheap watches.

But,... I am intrigued. They look pretty dang interesting 
Maybe if I didnt wear it 24/7 it might last


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

Nate - 
I don't know if this will be the clearing house for the apps (sort of like an Apple store model), but you can see the first few garmin apps here

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/


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## 1362 (Sep 12, 2010)

$500 is out of my range


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

heyyall said:


> It looks nice too.
> 
> Hands-on with the new Garmin Vivoactive GPS smartwatch, and the Garmin Vivofit2 | DC Rainmaker
> 
> I'm not interested in a accelerometer watch for activity tracking and think it looks a touch fragile, but feature wise, it is nicely equipped.


what does the accelerometer mean on a watch wise? Do you think this watch will track elevation? thanks!


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

mrmattjohnson said:


> what does the accelerometer mean on a watch wise? Do you think this watch will track elevation? thanks!


Accelerometers ("fitbits") measure movement in three dimensions. From the accelerations from one point in space to another, you can estimate steps, swim strokes, etc through fascinating machine learning and signal processing techniques. In the case of this watch, the accelerometer would most likely measure steps (walking and running cadence) and general movement indoors without GPS to estimate energy expenditure. It would take an altimeter to measure elevation gain in absence of GPS and/or post processing (i.e., fitbit uses an altimeter to measure the number of stairs climbed in a day).

Despite my love for a Fenix 2/3, I don't wear watches on a daily basis. I only use it when necessary (go running). I use an accelerometer on a belt and don't want it on my wrist. That's the main reason that I don't have interest in the vivoactive.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

i think the vivoactive is gps based altimeter or atleast according to DC rainmaker. So is it still an accelerometer or is the vivofit just the accelerometer? I just started looking at GPS watches so all the wording gets confusing fast.

thanks for all your input, i greatly appreciate it!


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

mrmattjohnson said:


> i think the vivoactive is gps based altimeter or atleast according to DC rainmaker. So is it still an accelerometer or is the vivofit just the accelerometer? I just started looking at GPS watches so all the wording gets confusing fast.
> 
> thanks for all your input, i greatly appreciate it!


The vivofit part is the accelerometer. Vivoactive adds a GPS (among other things). Accelerometers are everywhere in consumer devices.

A GPS will use an altimeter to improve accuracy in elevation gains and losses. The accelerometer will not be involved in this process. But, if you have an accelerometer, for example, and lose GPS signal while running, the accelerometer data can avoid complete loss of data.

But the good news is the device people take care of all of these issues for you.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

heyyall said:


> The vivofit part is the accelerometer. Vivoactive adds a GPS (among other things). Accelerometers are everywhere in consumer devices.
> 
> A GPS will use an altimeter to improve accuracy in elevation gains and losses. The accelerometer will not be involved in this process. But, if you have an accelerometer, for example, and lose GPS signal while running, the accelerometer data can avoid complete loss of data.
> 
> But the good news is the device people take care of all of these issues for you.


i know i sound like a broken record of retardedness and confusion. But if it has GPS, assuming you lose no connection to the satelites it should be accurate for speed/distance/elevation? I live in San Diego so i am assuming the connections will always be strong. Or do you think this watch will be inaccurate compared to the fenix 2 or the polar v800.
I currently use the free strava app on my cell phone and it seems to work fine, i am just tired of carrying my phone on runs. Biking is more of a hassle as the phone is in my pack.
thanks again!


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

mrmattjohnson said:


> i know i sound like a broken record of retardedness and confusion. But if it has GPS, assuming you lose no connection to the satelites it should be accurate for speed/distance/elevation? I live in San Diego so i am assuming the connections will always be strong. Or do you think this watch will be inaccurate compared to the fenix 2 or the polar v800.
> I currently use the free strava app on my cell phone and it seems to work fine, i am just tired of carrying my phone on runs. Biking is more of a hassle as the phone is in my pack.
> thanks again!


Short story:
Speed? Sort of
Distance? Reasonable but variable
Elevation? Less likely but this is fixable

Long story (if you are curious)
Speed is distance over time. The time part of the equation is pretty solid. The distance is a function of a lot of things. The gps takes samples on a certain frequency. For example, every second. From two points in 3D space, you can calculate straightline distance with ease. Who travels in a straight line in 3D? Nobody, especially mountain bikers riding a bike. With high enough sampling frequency, the errors are likely negligible. Low frequency of measurement with non linear travel will be a mess. You can improve distance accuracy using a wheel sensor. And, distance can be fixed through post processing. Look at this page for inspiration
Strava Slide Tool

Elevation is hard to measure with GPS. Altimeters help. Postprocessing also helps. Many websites (garmin, strava) will apply "elevation corrections" to improve upon the data quality. This also means that this "secret sauce" varies from source to source. You'll find that data will vary across websites and times of the year. I rode with someone this past weekend. I had a garmin 510, he had a 1000. We rode the same course together and got different elevations on the same route.

For mountain biking: rapid changes with relatively small differences in heights (think pump track, rolling hills, etc) will be extremely variable with GPS. Nothing will really help. Big (>400 feet) steady climbs, on the other hand, will work with virtually any device.

Recommendation: don't sweat it. Strava uses segments that get standardized using the "slide" application. As such, these become a standard that can be evaluated against. Think of "how long is a meter". At this point in the development of products, virtually anything will do fine.


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

wow thanks! if i could rep you multiple times i would. You are really helpful!


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## mtb_brew (Oct 7, 2014)

so you would recommend a barometric altimeter i am assuming over the gps for elevation it sounds like.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

mrmattjohnson said:


> wow thanks! if i could rep you multiple times i would. You are really helpful!


Keep reading and pass along information; it's what keeps forums alive.



mrmattjohnson said:


> so you would recommend a barometric altimeter i am assuming over the gps for elevation it sounds like.


A gps with a barometric altimeter is standard on higher end stuff. Yes, it is a good thing. No, it doesn't fix all of the problems. There still a lot of math behind the scenes as the gps coordinates, altitude, and times are just inputs for a mathematical equation.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

ps- don't get into analysis paralysis. There are many great options today. There will be more great options tomorrow.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

I had a package waiting on me today. My preorder of the Fenix 3 arrived.

View attachment 965351


The watch is beautiful. The screen is much sharper than the Fenix 2. The profile and fit is better too. I'll need to get out and see how well it does later this week.

Here's a picture of the F2 watch. I just need to decide what to do with it.







.


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## HOSSinNH (Apr 26, 2013)

I keep thinking I want a watch, but backing out. I worry about it on my wrist while riding, maybe catching on things, or breaking in a fall (as well as breaking while mounted to bars). It would be great for running and hikes though. I have an old etrex 20 handheld I throw in my pack for long days and just use the phone on shorter days at the moment. 

How has the F3 been? 

A dumb question. Say I was going to go to a new trail system. Could I download someone's Strava track, load it into the watch, and then at intersections use the map/nav mode to make sure I'm heading the right way to copy the downloaded route? And is it easy to do, or will the people with me be annoyed because I'm screwing around with my watch too long 

Thanks!


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

There is a lot of Fenix 3 discussion going on here
https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?492-fenix-3

The product is new and the firmware is not quite finalized, but I'm loving the watch. There are a couple of people that have had issues, but it is hard to tell operator error from a true issue. The glonass processing seems to be generally off at the moment, so that needs to be fixed. The connectIQ platform, while exciting, is also leading to some crashes of people's watches. This makes sense so I hope Garmin institutes a little more quality control before these apps are released (like what Apple does).

I've worn mine on my arm several times on casual rides just to use the watch. This is fine as long as you don't want to look at it while riding. You can, however, mount the watch using this adapter 
http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Forerunner-Bicycle-Mount-Kit/dp/B000VK5BMQ
I have an edge 510, so I don't have any interest in this mount.

In terms of following a route, yes, you can do it. And yes, you would drive people mad with the screwing around with the watch.


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## FloriDave (Jul 15, 2009)

I am LOVING the fenix 3. I've not tried loading tracks to it but I do believe you can do that. I did use the navigation to get back to my return trail after getting 'lost' trying to improvise a loop. I hadn't used that feature before and found it very quick and simple to use. 

I'm using HR monitor and for cycling, running, swimming, kayaking, hiking and wear as everyday watch in business environment. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## HOSSinNH (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for the info!



heyyall said:


> ps- don't get into analysis paralysis. There are many great options today. There will be more great options tomorrow.


This is the exactly where I'm at right now!

The F3 looks awesome for the battery life and the fact it doesn't look like something from star trek.

I started running to train for a trail running race I was talked into (such a bad idea) and I quickly learned I hate carrying the handheld and phone while running. So I started looking into cheap watches. It's now ballooned into F3's or other similar watches to take hiking, biking and everything else.

Vivoactive looks too much like a casio calculator watch from my childhood but the features are great. Something less expensive like the polar M400 is interesting. 8 hour battery life works for most runs, rides, and small to medium hikes.

Thanks again.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

Search around for Fenix 2's being sold used. You can likely get a solid value there.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

These watches look cool and all, and are a little bit better geared towards my specific use than the tri watch I currently use, but I'm not a fan of that rubber watch mount thing.

I like the Garmin 1/4 turn adapter I have on my Forerunner 310XT and would love for that sort of adapter to be available.

I'm not really pleased with the bike-specific mapping GPSes available right now. All manufacturers, IMO, are putting too much emphasis on connected features that I don't want at all, and am not willing to pay extra for. I just want maps, track recording like the Edges/Forerunners do (not like the hiking models do, where track memory is a point limitation), and GLONASS. I've been thinking about adding a speed/distance sensor to my Forerunner to be a little more accurate with my distance tracking, but I am not strongly opinioned about other sensors.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

I've turned all of the smart watch features off save a few. The night sky app is great, particularly since my phone will die in the MN cold the moment I touch the screen.

View attachment 974435


Wifi connectivity is great. Firmware updates and activity uploads have worked flawlessly.


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

As I have a small wrist the Fenix 3 isn't an option for day to day use as it's too large so I've gone for a Vivoactive since it's a lot smaller and suits my use. I'm not planning to use it for cycling but used both to record a route to see how the GPS in the Vivoactive compares to the EDge 800:

Vivoactive - distance 12.63 miles, average speed 6mph, elevation gain 538m:
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/729797643

Edge 800 - distance 12.32 miles, average speed 5.9mph, elevation gain 420m:
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/729818961

Near the end you can see the Vivoactive is straightening out the route more than the Edge 800:


















Apparently the Edge 800 updates more often which makes sense and perhaps as expected the altitude isn't as accurate.

John


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