# Decent bike for advanced 4 year old



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see anything specifically.

My 4 year old son started riding without training wheels when he was 3, and he has already had a taste of winter riding on snow packed local singletrack trails, which he loved. 

He is taller, more advanced and more coordinated in cycling and snowboarding than any of the 6 year old's in the neighborhood, and he is already showing a strong interest in these things. His bike is a hand me down Trek Mountain Lion one speed with back pedal brakes, which weighs a few pounds more than my XL Titanium 29er does!!. He probably has one more year on this bike before he will grow out of it.

Watching him try to pedal this tank up hills is a painful experience, and I am concerned that it could be discouraging for him because it weighs as much as he does. I want him to enjoy riding as much as possible and have equipment that is more fun to use.

I'm in a dilemma with spending money on better equipment for a kid that will grow out of it every few years vs. wanting him to have the best gear that it makes sense to buy. 

Isn't there a decent lighter kids bike on the market, or just the pot metal junk that I see in little kids bikes?

He doesn't ride gears yet, but hand brakes would be fine.

Any suggestions on what to do? Are there any decent little kids bikes that don't outweigh the kid riding them?


----------



## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

You could look into a mini or micro BMX. My 5 year old daughter rides THIS.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks,
That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. They don't look too expensive either.

How does the Mini BMX differ from regular BMX? It looks like the wheels on the Mini are larger, and frame is more along the proportions of a mountain bike.


----------



## dirtydown (Jan 13, 2004)

It can be difficult to find a decent kid's bike. I bought my twins Redline Pit Boss (16" wheels) bikes. They are very well made. They rode them up until last year when they turned eleven. We modified them as they got bigger by putting higher handle bars on. Those bikes still have a lot of years of life left in them. I hope I can find smart enough to realize at $80/ea they are a great deal over any department store bike. 

My kids also raced bmx. They each have bmx race bikes. However, those are very specialized. 

At 8, I put them on 24" mt bikes. Even those needed modifications. I replaced the front fork and wheel with a 26" wheel and rigid fork. That took almost 5 lbs off of the bike weight.

Good luck.


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

isleblue65 said:


> Thanks,
> That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. They don't look too expensive either.
> 
> How does the Mini BMX differ from regular BMX? It looks like the wheels on the Mini are larger, and frame is more along the proportions of a mountain bike.


BMX mini uses a rim with a bead seat diameter of 451mm which is quite larger than a standard "20 inch" BMX rim which is 406mm. So the BMX Mini tires are labeled 20 inch but use fractional width measurements such as 20 x 1 3/8. A BMX Mini is a fantastic one speed trail bike for small kids as you can adjust the gearing and it will roll over stuff better than a 20" BMX bike. Plus, they are designed for light riders where as most BMX bikes are designed to hold up to adults.


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

isleblue65,

N1 for appreciating your kid's quality of bike to quality of experience! (Can you imagine the weight ratio he rides if it was applied to our bikes? Our bikes would be 100+ pounds!)

DO NOT get a BMX race bike! My just-turned 6 year old has one, and the geo is pretty much for race only. The HA is so steep, it is not meant for turning (the giant BMX track burms do that for you) Twitchfest!

So far, one of the best bikes I've found for my little ones is the Specialized Hot Rock. And the reason is geometry, the kids get on it, and rock it. And it has aluminum rims and other aluminum bits. I had my oldest try different bikes and the Hotrock was more than I wanted to spend - but I saw what happened when he got on it and I had to buy it for him. It's a great bike. 16" wheeled version would probably just fit him now. Do not buy something that he will "grow into" (not fit).

My son hits the pump tracks, & flat MTB with me. He loves it.

P


----------



## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Mr.P said:


> DO NOT get a BMX race bike! My just-turned 6 year old has one, and the geo is pretty much for race only. The HA is so steep, it is not meant for turning (the giant BMX track burms do that for you) Twitchfest!
> 
> So far, one of the best bikes I've found for my little ones is the Specialized Hot Rock. And the reason is geometry, the kids get on it, and rock it. And it has aluminum rims and other aluminum bits. I had my oldest try different bikes and the Hotrock was more than I wanted to spend - but I saw what happened when he got on it and I had to buy it for him. It's a great bike. 16" wheeled version would probably just fit him now. Do not buy something that he will "grow into" (not fit).
> 
> ...


HT angle on a Redline Proline Mini...72 degrees
HT angle on a Specialized Hot Rock 20...72 degrees
:skep:


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

mtnbiker72 said:


> HT angle on a Redline Proline Mini...72 degrees
> HT angle on a Specialized Hot Rock 20...72 degrees
> :skep:


I wish it were that easy. You would think you would understand that I have actual experience with both bikes, with a kid in the same age group from my post above.

The easy answer for the OP is that the *MICRO*'s top tube is 16.8" and the 16" Hotrock's tt is 14.8" (the 20" Hotrock is too big for a 4 year old & the Mini you suggest is too big too. tt 17.8")

The long answer is like this.

Some of our neighborhood 7 year olds will not ride their micro BMX race bike in the street for fun, they always reach for the all around bike. The dad tried to make the mini the only bike, but then the kid didn't ride, and even gave up racing.

Which brings up the what the BMX mini-race bike can do. It can rail a BMX track. It's made for sprinting, speed, and going straight. It is not a jumper, a rough terrain rider, a street bike, a go to school bike. They have road bike width tires and rims. Long top tubes. Hard plastic seats. Low handlebars. Huge(!) gears. Pinned pedals. etc.

My son has both. He reaches for the racer to race, in the street or on the track. Otherwise it is the 16" Hotrock for everything else. I don't have to say anything, he knows what feels best.

In MTB terms the Micro is like a nervous XC _*race*_ bike, and the Hotrock is like a relaxed AM/trail bike.

P


----------



## Just me (Apr 20, 2007)

*Pitboss Rocks*

I'm in a similar situation and have some experience with it.

My 2.5 year old went straight from a balance bike to a fixed gear 12" bike. He thought training wheels were lame. No offense to anyone who needs them. I used them. He just thought since dad didn't use them, he didn't need to either so...off he went.

He rode that for a few months and then I took his older sisters 12" princess bike, painted it red and black for him. I wrote "Tough Guy" on the down tube and he never knew it was an old princess bike. It simply is "My tough Guy Bike".

I posted here and seemed to think a micro mini was what he needed. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned here, the geometry if for racing. Plus, he is just too dang small to get going on the bike. If I help him get on it, no problem. If he stops or crashes, then I have to help him get on it.

Did some more research and settled on the Redline Pitboss 16". AWESOME!!!

He can get on it by himself. The geometry is so much better, and his confidence is through the roof. We've done 10 miles on it and he rocks it. I found one on Craigslist for $85 and the guy was nice enough to ship it. I sent the money via paypal and sent him a FedEx label to ship it. Nice guy.

My son just turned 4 at Christmas. He weighs 38 lbs and this bike is perfect.

Remember, he doesn't know any different when it comes to bone jarring bumps. What he does know is that everyone who sees him says "Holy $#@%, look at that kid".

Get the Pitboss, you will not be disappointed.

We're headed to the track this Saturday and that's where the Micro mini will be money.

Hope this helps.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks for all of the reviews, explanation of the differences between BMX (standard vs Mini) and opinions. I am definitely leaning toward something like the Pitboss rather than standard BMX. After a conversation with my wife last night where I related a lot of the info I learned from this thread, it was clear she thinks spending $250+ on a kids bike is out of the question. I'm still working on that, but I am also going to be keeping my eyes open for $85 Craigslist deals, which could satisfy both of us, and our son. 

Max (son) started on a tiny little Magna with training wheels when he was 2, the trainers came off when he just turned 3 and now he's on his second bike. We've been on an 8 mile bike path ride to the ice cream shop and back, and several short off-road excursions, in addition to daily rides in the summer time around the neighborhood. When I show him MTN bike and BMX videos on You tube, he can't be pulled away from the screen. 

It sounds like the Hotrock or Pitboss are great options, so I'll be looking out for a deal!


----------



## dirtydown (Jan 13, 2004)

I have 2 Pit boss' for sale at $85. Your choice of 2 different color schemes. I will just throw in the additional riser bars that we put on. Send me a pm if you are interested.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Cool, I'm sending a PM now...


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

I am in the same dilemma. Here is what I have learned...

We have a BMX mini and micro min. They are great on the track and okay on the street. It was a disaster mountain biking though. The rear wheel locked up very easily and my son crashed many times. We had more success on a regular Norco BMX, which is like a cheaper pit boss. He rode all season at the ski hill using a rear coaster brake and did well. 

This year he will turn 6 and he is big for his age. We are looking at Hotrocks and such. Still haven't made any decisions yet. The cool part about kids is they are very adaptable. I have seen kids ripping on little Kona mountain bikes with frozen front forks that weigh a ton.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

One question I have is: My son's current Trek Mountain Lion 30 has 20" wheels, while the Redline Pitboss has 16" wheels. The Pitboss is a better, lighter bike than the Trek, but It would seem to me that smaller wheels = smaller bike. He fits well on the Trek, and could even look at something larger in the next year or so as he is a 3' 10" tall four year old. 

His first bike had 12.5" tires and the jump to 20s was fine for him. Do I want to even consider 16" wheels?


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

I would go 16' if possible. More proportionate to his body, probably easier to handle. If he is out of the 16" wheeled bike in a year, sell it for $50 and you are out $25.

If you want him to have bike stoke now, get him what fits him now (not later).

Enjoy! He'll love it.

P


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

This is a shot of my son at age 5 with a cheap 16" wheeled bike. He rode the local ski hill all summer with no issues (except when he lost his chain - coaster brakes). Kids are adaptable and don't have high expectations of their gear.

I think 16" are great for at least this year for your kid.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Mr.P said:


> I would go 16' if possible. More proportionate to his body, probably easier to handle. If he is out of the 16" wheeled bike in a year, sell it for $50 and you are out $25.
> 
> If you want him to have bike stoke now, get him what fits him now (not later).
> 
> ...


What fits him now is 20". The age range I see listed for most bikes with 16" wheels is 3 - 6 years, and 20" is 5 - 8 years. Max is as tall or taller than most of the 5 year olds we know, and that's why I think it might be going backwards to put him on a smaller bike than the one he currently rides (which fits just fine). As much as I like the idea of a light weight aluminum bike for him, which is the reason I started this quest to find him a better bike, I think I should be looking at a 20" wheeled light weight aluminum bike, not 16".


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with putting him on a 20", so if you are happy there, go for it. I think some of it depends on what you want to do. Last season my son rode a 20" BMX mini at the track. He also rode it on some bike path trips. It is fast! But for mountain biking, it wasn't as good as the cheap 16 BMX bike, He was too stretched out on it to do any good maneuvers, steep corners. When he was learning to do wheelie drops, we put him on his old 12" wheeled bike, because it was easier to learn. 

In a nutshell, if you want to go fast on mellower terrain, gor for the 20". If you want him to do stunts and downhill, gor for the 16".


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

isleblue65 said:


> What fits him now is 20". The age range I see listed for most bikes with 16" wheels is 3 - 6 years, and 20" is 5 - 8 years. Max is as tall or taller than most of the 5 year olds we know, and that's why I think it might be going backwards to put him on a smaller bike than the one he currently rides (which fits just fine). As much as I like the idea of a light weight aluminum bike for him, which is the reason I started this quest to find him a better bike, I think I should be looking at a 20" wheeled light weight aluminum bike, not 16".


You know best what your situation is. I'm just a guy on the internet  If there are other kids around with 16" wheeled bikes, see if your kid can take a test ride, that will make things clear.

On the forums you hear the FR & DJ guys talking about getting a bike a little bit small, as it makes it more playful. Bigger (or longer) bikes are for climbing, which is great, but our kids at their age are not climbing specialists  They just want to ride and have fun.

My 6 year old is about 48" tall, and the 16" Hotrock is starting to get a bit small, he has about another half to full year on it before he outgrows it. I might keep him at 16" but get a bigger bike (I saw this at the shop the other day: 14mm axles on a 16" wheel bike!):
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45752&eid=4358&menuItemId=9269

I'm on board with everything DWDW has said as well.

P


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Here in MN, the terrain we would be riding is generally smooth flowy singletrack. There are not a lot of places where there would be drops, stunts (outside of the park) and downhill. On our trails he will be able to find log drops, rocks and berms to practice jumping, but a majority of what is available to ride (regardless of what he or I want him to ride) is fast, smooth singletrack. 

It sounds like it makes sense to go with 20" wheels. I do agree though that if I have a chance to let him try out a 16" bike, it would be fun to see how he likes it. Being a 46" tall 4 year old kind of moves him up on the sizing chart.

So now that it seems I have it narrowed down, I'll have to keep my eyes out for a decent aluminum 20" bike.

P, that little Specialized looks good!


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

If you are looking for a 20", I recommend the Scott bikes. From what I have read from extensive browsing they are the lightest, best working etc. I am set to buy one, except they are not in Canada. It is what I planned on getting my 5 year old this year. Now I'm looking at plan B.

I saw last 2009 Specialized Hotrock and 2009 Kona Shred at my LBS last night. The Kona had disc brakes and looked nice but was heavy and the fork stunk. The Specialized was noticeably lighter, and the fork also stunk. They had a lower end Kona (Makena?), that had a much nicer fork that actually seemed like it would be effective. The salesman said he woud be happy to mix and match for me. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

He needs a GT Sanction.


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

I bought a Norco Ninja for my 7yr old Daughter, now 8. She is small for her age so around the height of 5-6 yr olds and 42lbs.

http://www.norco.com/bikes/kids/20-inch/ninja/

One thing I like about this bike is its basically all the same parts as a full size bike so I can grab stuff out of my parts bin and put them on, like carbon bars 

Price was $300 Cdn.

She went from a 12" to a 16" to a 20" wheel in a matter of months. I believe it was mostly confidence factor. We live on a very steep hill and now that she has gears she can make it up the hill without pushing.
The brakes are so much better as well. The coaster brake on the 12" basically had her skidding down the hill and the 16" walmart bike the brakes wear non existant with stock pads and ok with good pads but very hard to pull with her tiny hands. Now with one or two fingers she can lock up both wheels <doh>

Cheers,
Paul Bell


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Rum Runner said:


> I bought a Norco Ninja for my 7yr old Daughter, now 8. She is small for her age so around the height of 5-6 yr olds and 42lbs.
> 
> http://www.norco.com/bikes/kids/20-inch/ninja/
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul. That looks like a nice bike, and the other Norco bikes seem like good quality. Unfortunately the nearest dealer to me is 361 miles away, in Michigan. I haven't ruled out buying online before letting him ride it around, especially if I were buying a cheaper used bike, but I think if I were going to drop $300 on a bike for my son, I would prefer for him to be able to pedal it around for a few minutes first.

I really like those Scott bikes, and I could order through REI and have him test ride it at the store before committing to buying it, but over $400 for a kids bike is a hard sell.


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

isleblue65 
I can measure seat heat at top/bottom of post height and stand over etc if you think more serious about the Ninja.
I'll try get some pics tonight 

Cheers,
Paul Bell


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks Paul,

The website has pretty good geometry information. I need to measure his inseam to know minimum stand over and go from there.

Frame Size20 x 11.0 (G)
Frame Weight
Bike Weight
Front Travel
Rear Travel
Seat Tube C-T280
Head Angle70
Seat Angle68.7
Horizontal Top Tube Length469
Top Tube Length C-C451
Head Tube Length100
Fork Length359
Bottom Bracket Height250
Stand Over Height545
Wheel Base905
Front Centre511
Rear Centre395


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

I'll try get a few photos before the weekend is over. In the snow with some 20" studded tires 
Busy week with gymnastic practice, competition Sat and now an ear ache <ouch>

Cheers,
Paul Bell


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Rum Runner said:


> I'll try get a few photos before the weekend is over. In the snow with some 20" studded tires
> Busy week with gymnastic practice, competition Sat and now an ear ache <ouch>
> 
> Cheers,
> Paul Bell


Thanks Paul, I'd like to see the photos. What was the cost by the way?

I know all about ear aches. Just got done with ear tubes for the youngest! Not fun.


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Paul,

This is great info as I am also in the market for a 20" bike. Any weights on the Ninja?


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

*Pics of Norco 20" Ninja*

So did some pics tonight. 
Megan was lying down in bed after our trip to the clinic. Managed to get her inseam tho @ 21".
Did some pics with the measuring tape but was hard to see so posted seat height.
I also did a pic of the 4 bikes she has. We keep them all ready to go as she often has friends over and nice to have a few spares around 
One thing you will notice if you look carefully in the pic of four bikes is as the seat height gets a bit higher as wheel size increases so does crank height. 
My daughter is pretty small and at 8 she is only around 46lbs and I was worried that the 2" bike would be too big. 
The thing that worried me was that she can barely touch tippy toed when on the seat but but when I look at my bikes I can't reach both toes to the ground on any of my bikes so that seems normal.
We live on a big hill and she loves the gears. We did do some single track but she prefers going much farther on our great path network I'll break her eventually :madman:

I did weight the bike and it sits at 25lbs and cost was around $300 Cdn. Pitched in with my Mom for a graduation present 
You will notice the replaceable rear derailleur hanger  and disc brake tabs. I have a couple of warped wheels that still have good disc brake hubs so they may find their way on the bike sometime for fun. I also have some higher end shifters and cog sets so maybe she may get an 8 or even 9 speed :thumbsup:

Bottom line was that I was worried the bike was WAY to big for her but now that I see her riding it fits her fine and she is having a lot more fun on this bike cause of our hilly area.
Cheers,
Paul


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

*Pics of Norco 20" Ninja*

Having trouble uploading pics but here goes again


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

*pics of Norco 20" Ninja*

Couple more


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks a lot for posting the detailed photos (with measurements) Paul! That helps a lot.

I really like this bike with the gearing and good components. I'm assuming it comes in one frame size for each wheel size? 

I'm going to measure my Son's inseam and talk to my wife about getting him one of these for his birthday. I think the gearing might be a little advanced for him right now, but he would figure it out fairly quickly.

Thanks again

Edit: It looks like the Ninja is a model sold in Canada. The kids bike Norco sells in the US is a much more expensive suspension bike. I have a call in to a dealer in another state to see if they can special order the Ninja.


----------



## Bluebeat007 (Mar 17, 2004)

Picked up a Fisher Precaliber 20 for my 5 year old last Xmas and couldn't be happier....good weight, 1x6, and an actual working suspension fork.

http://www.fisherbikes.com/bike/archivemodel/495


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I bought the Precaliber for my boy too. He loves it. I found the fork that came on the bike to be very stiff and heavy. I got the LBS to get me one made by the same manufacturer spec'd for the Specialized Hotrocks for 50 bucks. It works a little better and is a little lighter.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I replied to a Craigslist ad for a Precaliber, but it was in California (I'm in MN) and the seller wanted to deal locally.

The Norco Ninja would be a major ordeal to special order as it is not a model distributed in the US, and no way to let my son test ride one first.

I considered the other models mentioned, but it really came down to what was available for the price I wanted to spend.

I ended up finding a nearly new condition Trek MT 60 6 speed with front shock for $125 on Craigslist, and bought it. It has an aluminum frame and decent components. It's not the lightest bike around, but still a pound lighter than his steel backpedal brake Trek that it is replacing. Having gears will help him a lot with climbing, and the front and rear hand brakes are great! The crank arms have two pedal positions and the stem is fully adjustable so it can be expanded as he grows.

The front shock was very stiff, and I couldn't see how it could move at all under a 45 pound kid's weight. It is a combination spring/ bushing shock. I took it apart and added grease to the stanchion tubes and all moving parts and cross drilled holes in the lower bushing. This significantly decreased the force necessary to compress the shock.

All in all it's a huge improvement over his current bike and I think it will serve him well for many years.


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

Congrats on the find isleblue65 
I'm sure you will have a happy rider 

I have a question about the the shock mod. Was that essentially a rubber bushing that you drilled to make it more pliable?
I have the same problem with the Norco and I don't think there really is a good fork for 20" wheels. I am into recumbents and want to make a fully enclosed streamliner. Made a few elecrathon vehicles and pretty much nothing except home made suspension.

The thing I liked about the Norco Ninja was that right beside it they had the adult bilke and the sales person said a lot of the components where the same, even the frame(Except for tube length/size). This meant I could swap out parts from the tons that I have 

I guessed roughly at the gear inches on the Ninja at aprox 20"-86" for a ball park figure with most of my MTB = 16"-100", so pretty close

Cheers,


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Way to go Isleblue. Post some pics and let us know how it goes. I just ordered a Scale 20". I won't get it for a bit, but when I do we can compare notes.

Rum Runner, White Brothers makes a decent 20" fork. It is expensive, but if you really want one, that is an option. I had hoped to find a used one, but I imagine they are quite rare.


----------



## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I'll get some pics up tonight. The bike has a few scratch marks on one side of the top tube, but otherwise is in great shape. I'm working hard to get an old 12" wheeled boys bike painted purple and put back together so I can give that to my 2 1/2 year old daughter at the same time we give the Trek to my son. The Trek is still hiding from him in a corner of the basement until then.

Yes, I drilled the bushing cross wise to remove material so that it is more compliant in the compression direction. It seems to have helped. Also, there is a long bolt that pre-compresses the springs and holds the shock uppers into the lowers. The threaded area is about an inch long and loctited. I backed that out about 1.5 turns and now the shock actually has about 1" of smooth working compression.


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

Will be a nice surprise 



isleblue65 said:


> Yes, I drilled the bushing cross wise to remove material so that it is more compliant in the compression direction. It seems to have helped. Also, there is a long bolt that pre-compresses the springs and holds the shock uppers into the lowers. The threaded area is about an inch long and loctited. I backed that out about 1.5 turns and now the shock actually has about 1" of smooth working compression.


The fork on the Ninja works smooth with me on the bike @145lbs but as you said I doubt it works much with my 45lb girl on it. Gonna open the shock and see what I can do 

Cheers,
Paul Bell


----------



## trumpetinc (Feb 21, 2010)

My son is 5, and tall for his age. I got him a GT Scamp - it's a 20" geared bike, not too pricey (I got it for $175 from Performance). He isn't quite strong enough to down-shift yet, so we pick a gear appropriate for the trail and he hammers away.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)




----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My 5 year old son got on his Precaliber and within ten minutes, got the shifting down. He was flyin'. Only problem is, he stops by squeezing the brakes and jumping off.


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

I got my 2 year old an el cheap department store bike to see if she'd like riding. She did... in spades, since Daddy rides and would ride in the park with her. Once I knew she liked it, I went to the LBS and picked up a 12" Spec Hotrock. She didn't know I was there to get one and she'd spend about a half hour riding it around the shop every time I went in for a piece or part.

The day we got it, after she was done riding it, she asked if we could take it home (the only time she'd asked) and when I told her yes, you should have seen her hop around the store squealing with delight.

The good thing with this shop is the "Trade Up" program where you get 40% of the purchase prices towards a new bike within 2 years (I think), as long as you haven't trashed the bike you're trading in.

My daughter's tall for her age, so we used the trade up about a year later at the shop's annual tent sale and got her the 16" Hotrock (purple and white!) which she loves and is about ready to ditch the training wheels.


----------



## StJamesG (Feb 21, 2007)

I picked up Performance Bike's 20" mountain bike for my 5 1/2 year old daughter. She's the height of a the average 6 1/2 or 7 year old and she barely fits it (the seat is all the way down and she reaches slightly to get her hand on the bars).

I like:
:: the geometry. It doesn't seem twitchy
:: the brake levers. I've adjusted the stroke so her fingers can comfortably reach.

I don't like:
:: its heavy. 36 spoke wheels and 2.1" tires. Is that really necessary??
:: the "suspension" fork. only when my 195lbs sits on the bike does the fork compress... and then, only slightly. Plus it feels like it weighs 7lbs.
:: the rear cassette. I don't think they used grease. They used chewing gum.
:: the grip shifter. Its too large in diameter. It requires too much force to downshift. It is too bulk making it difficult to reach the right brake lever.

It sounds like I don't like the bike, but actually, for $200 its not too bad of a deal. I just need a couple upgrades (see below).

My question:
:: can anyone recommend a light weight 32 hole, 20" rim that I can lace up to an old 7 speed shimano DX hub I've got sitting around?
:: can anyone recommend a light weight 20" rigid suspension fork with brake bosses?

Thanks much!

Jack


----------



## Rum Runner (Feb 13, 2008)

Hey Jack,
I wouldn't knock the 2.1 tires. Maybe a better brand name might get you a lighter tire. The larger volume tire with a bit lower pressure will help make the ride less harsh and IMHO worth a few grams.
It seems our kids are pretty much SOL for forks unless we are willing to pay a grand for one. I believe someone in this thread drilled out the elastomer in the shock to soften it up a bit. If you go rigid fork definitely use a larger volume front tire 

Lucky for us most kids don't care much as long as they can get out and ride  

Cheers,
Paul


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Jack,

I am in the same boat as you. A couple of things I have picked up. For softening suspension you could try emptying one side of its spring to make it softer (a little lighter too). Rigid 20" forks with bosses seem to be rare, but there is a venue known as mod trials which uses them. For the rims it seems the quality 20" rims are all 36 hole, as they are intended for BMX. I guess you want to reuse your hub. My kids bike has 32 hole rims that seem fairly cheap, just not sure where you could get them (Alex Rims I think).

God luck, and enjoy riding with your daughter.


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

StJamesG said:


> she barely fits it ...$200 its not too bad of a deal. I just need a couple upgrades (see below).


Would you want to ride a bike that barely fits you? :madman: Neither do kids. It scares them. Fear = no joy. No joy = no ride.

Sorry. That is a peeve of mine. Adults buy bikes for themselves and their pocketbooks (ie: "they will grow into it") Not for what the kid needs. Then wonder why the kid is not riding...

Invest in a shorter stem.

P


----------



## Demo9 (Nov 20, 2006)

Here is a 32 hole 20" rim, http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=611
Might work, although they don't show the weight...


----------



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Demo 9.. you are a wealth of info. Thanks for the link.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mr.P said:


> Would you want to ride a bike that barely fits you? :madman: Neither do kids. It scares them. Fear = no joy. No joy = no ride.
> 
> Sorry. That is a peeve of mine. Adults buy bikes for themselves and their pocketbooks (ie: "they will grow into it") Not for what the kid needs. Then wonder why the kid is not riding...
> 
> ...


I know it doesn't really pertain, but, I loved riding my dad's big ol' 10-speed when I could even barely reach the pedals.
I had my own BMX bike (actually a suspension bike - Royce Union Mach 3)

I'm just sayin' big bikes did not scare me


----------



## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

highdelll said:


> I know it doesn't really pertain, but, I loved riding my dad's big ol' 10-speed when I could even barely reach the pedals.
> I had my own BMX bike (actually a suspension bike - Royce Union Mach 3)
> 
> I'm just sayin' big bikes did not scare me


Fair enough. My 6 year old likes to ride my 26" SS around the streets. :thumbsup:

I know what I said will piss off some. But we spend $$$ to make our bike 1# lighter (as if it makes a difference) then get our kids a crap bike to save some $$$, and expect them to love cycling like we do.

I've seen the too big vs. good fit = level of enjoyment with my own eyes. Even with my own son.

Kids will rip on bikes that fit them. Give em the opportunity. :thumbsup:

2 years of great riding from my son on his 16" HotRock for $160. What a great investment. The kid reaches for the bike to play all the time. I'm not loaded, but will happily plunk down $200 in the coming months for the next bike that will last him another 2 years. 

P


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mr.P said:


> ...
> 
> Kids will rip on bikes that fit them. Give em the opportunity. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


absolutely


----------



## StJamesG (Feb 21, 2007)

Paul, I take back my comment about the tire being too big. My daughter was riding all over the place last night, concrete to grass to concrete. She couldn't have done this without large volume tires! Yeah, I wish they made some ultra-light versions in 2.1".

Paul / DWDW, I'm doing some modifications to the fork this weekend - drilling elasomers, new springs, whatever it takes. It she's pushing around a 5lb fork it better have some compliance. Thanks for the info!

Mr. P, I agree. It should fit or don't bother. With the seat all the way down on her bike my daughter has more than a slight bend to her knee and she maneuvers the bike very well with how she's positioned. On second look the top tube and stem are about right for her. Thanks for the feedback!

Both my 4 year old son and my daughter have their first mountain bike race this Sunday. I've got to do some quick work on my daughter's old 16" bike - its 100% pink but the size fits my son very well. I need to pull out an orange paint job before Sunday's race. I hope they enjoy the race.

I wish Santa Cruz made a Nomad-mini. 

Jack

PS: I recommend Push Bikes (we use an imitation Like a Bike). My son was balancing at 26 months and riding/pedaling without training wheels as soon as he turned 3. Those bike really help in learning balance and leaning technique.


----------



## paulys_tx (Jul 14, 2007)

My son is 5 and has been racing BMX for just under a year. He went on his first "real" mountain bike ride yesterday. He used his SE Ripper Mini on the stock 1 1/8" tires. I was worried that he would have problems due to the small tire size, but it was not an issue at all. The trail we were on was very rooty with several ledgy dropoff areas and he rode most of it and when he got scared, he just dismounted ran the section and climbed back on. We rode 5 miles and he was riding away from me with his 10 year old brother. I now feel that any other bike would have been much more of a hinderance than a help. His BMX bike fits him, is light enough for him to handle easily, and the tire size is probably equivalent to my 2.1" tires on my 29er. He would not understand gears yet and the weight of a 20" mountain bike would probably make it a lot less fun. We are planning to do 6 miles this weekend over slightly better trails. I say the BMX bike is the best way to go!!!!


----------

