# Specialized new and improved warranty - you can't jump their bikes



## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

So apparently Specialized doesn't want their bikes to be jumped or ridden agressivly, as they are not designed to be used this way and it voids their warranty?!

https://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/Frame_and_Warranty_Policy_Updated.pdf (last bit)



















Some dude's 2007 sx trail. He's not getting warranty cause he jumped it.

Now don't get me confused by some poor trolling kid, but aren't their sx trails and demo's and what not made to be jumped and miss-treated?? Price's go up designs get uglier warranty is basicly only for show. Be carefull.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

if this goes for their DH frames too, and so on, their warranty is pointless

unless you use your demo to commute with and only ride 2 inch curbs...


so they are moving from one of the best frame deals/warranties to one of the worst.

still, i would like to see this saying it covers their entire range.. ?? i read the additions, but it seems so generic its impossible to see if its for XC or all frames in their program, etc

edit:

I copied this from the last bit, seems this warranty statement is for a specific frame only ??

This bicycle orframeset has not been designed, engineered, distributed, manufactured, or retailed 
for uses in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe 
terrain, riding in severe climates, riding with heavy loads, commercial activiti

sorry about the spacing, apparently it doesnt copypaste well, and im too lazy to add the spaces


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Their is no way that's not from a crash, that's why it's not being warrantied. I've heard 99% great things about Specialized customer service and warranty
check out this Thread


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## jcsxj (Nov 16, 2010)

Jamis is the same way. Kinda dumb because if you look at their site the Komodo is labeled as 'Jump/Park'....ghey


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

See for yourself

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5947707/

Gotta trust a mans word on it though. But to me a clean snappage like that indicates some sort of manufactering error.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Sneeck said:


> See for yourself
> 
> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5947707/
> 
> Gotta trust a mans word on it though. But to me a clean snappage like that indicates some sort of manufactering error.


Okay that picture tells a different story with the front wheel in perfect condition, the other pictures it looks like the front wheel is out of view on purpose.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Brutal.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

The way to tell if it cracked first is to look at the break. If it cracked first, there will be some "shiny" spots where the crack rubbed. 99.9999999999% of frame breaks like this would be avoided if people inspected their frame before each ride. I know that sounds silly to some but if you value your skull.


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## banga (Aug 3, 2004)

GTR2ebike said:


> Okay that picture tells a different story with the front wheel in perfect condition, the other pictures it looks like the front wheel is out of view on purpose.


So was my front wheel when I front cased a jump and folded my frame...


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## wolfman00 (Jun 18, 2008)

jcsxj said:


> Jamis is the same way. Kinda dumb because if you look at their site the Komodo is labeled as 'Jump/Park'....ghey


Jamis has an excellent warranty. I broke my parker (surprise surprise haha), and they didnt hesitate to replace it.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

That looks more like failed weld(s) than broken frame tubing; That seems like a production fail, I could easily be wrong.

Foop.


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## jcsxj (Nov 16, 2010)

wolfman00 said:


> Jamis has an excellent warranty. I broke my parker (surprise surprise haha), and they didnt hesitate to replace it.


Well that's good to hear. They have a 'blanket' warranty for all bikes. This was pulled from their site.

9. This bicycle is not intended for use in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe terrain, riding in severe climates, racing, riding with heavy loads, institutional or industrial use, or any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle, can cause serious injury to the rider, and in all cases will void this warranty. Likewise, the bicycle is not intended for use with a motor.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I know that guy, he shreds HARD. This is a BS situation, and after this I'm not sure I'll ever deal with Specialized.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

thats balooney. if you cant dh or jump a sxt or a demo why get one. i could see that being ok for a fsr xc or camber but that is bs.


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## dkbikes4life (Nov 20, 2010)

That looks like it snapped from a bad weld to me. It was right along the weld line.

I know those trails. The big set of jumps there looks like fun.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

You guys have to understand that each aluminum frame out there WILL break. Guaranteed. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life and over time it'll most likely break at a weld because that's where the stress risers are. It was probably a very GOOD weld that was stressed heavily by someone that "shreds HARD" as Jim311 put it. So check your frame because it will crack and break at some point - if you crash hard or ride hard, it will break that much sooner.


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## Nagaredama (Aug 2, 2004)

What kink of fork is he running?


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

*Bummer*



Nagaredama said:


> What kink of fork is he running?


Marzocchi 66 RC3

That's a horrible bit of luck. What year is the frame? Is it the original owner? How is his relationship with the shop? How is the shop's relationship with the Specialized rep?

All pertinent questions. At any rate, that would leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.


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## Nagaredama (Aug 2, 2004)

sambs827 said:


> Marzocchi 66 RC3
> 
> That's a horrible bit of luck. What year is the frame? Is it the original owner? How is his relationship with the shop? How is the shop's relationship with the Specialized rep?
> 
> All pertinent questions. At any rate, that would leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.


Here is his problem.

From the Specialized manual for the SX Trail.
_
The Enduro SX Trail frame is compatible ONLY with single crown and double triple clamp forks that have travel of 6.9" (175mm) or less. _

He uses a clearly incompatible fork and complains when his frame is denied warranty? Lame!


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## doesyourchainhanglow (Sep 27, 2010)

This 
limited warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear, nor to be claimed defects, 
malfunctions or failures that result from abuse, neglect, improper assembly, 
improper maintenance, alteration, collision, crash, or misuse. This bicycle or 
frameset has not been designed, engineered, distributed, manufactured, or retailed 
for uses in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe 
terrain, riding in severe climates, riding with heavy loads, commercial activities, or 
any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle

lol wtf


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

Giant, Trek etc all say similar jargon. As the economy gets worse I expect companies to be tougher on warrenties.


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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

wolfman00 said:


> Jamis has an excellent warranty. I broke my parker (surprise surprise haha), and they didnt hesitate to replace it.


 When you buy a Parker, Jamis goes ahead and grabs another out of stock and puts your address on it.


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

Nagaredama said:


> Here is his problem.
> 
> From the Specialized manual for the SX Trail.
> _
> ...


I forgot about that...bummer.


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## Diggidy (Jan 1, 2008)

What I loved is when my buddy cracked the chain stay on his enduro and tried to get it warrantied, he was denied because the chain stay is not apart of the frame, it's a suspension component and not covered under the frame warranty. Seriously?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Diggidy said:


> What I loved is when my buddy cracked the chain stay on his enduro and tried to get it warrantied, he was denied because the chain stay is not apart of the frame, it's a suspension component and not covered under the frame warranty. Seriously?


This is actually a big reason why I moved away from Specialized. I have gone with Santa Cruz (they take CARE of you during warranty) and Pivot (have proven to be very good about it).


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

gticlay said:


> You guys have to understand that each aluminum frame out there WILL break. Guaranteed. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life and over time it'll most likely break at a weld because that's where the stress risers are. It was probably a very GOOD weld that was stressed heavily by someone that "shreds HARD" as Jim311 put it. So check your frame because it will crack and break at some point - if you crash hard or ride hard, it will break that much sooner.


Not true. Many machines in the world use aluminum for decades without failure. Jets, dirt bikes, sport bikes, sport cars, etc. etc. put their parts through far more stress than a 45 lbs. DH bike. Everything has a finite life in theory, but accepting the fact that it's going to fail during normal use (i.e. exactly what it was designed for) is just straight up ridiculous.

Also, if you're going to accept the fact that it's just going to fail, you better ride the living ***** out of it within the warranty time in hopes that it will fail before the warranty runs out, assuming the manufacturer will even honor the warranty.


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

Hahaha


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Archi-Magus said:


> Not true. Many machines in the world use aluminum for decades without failure. Jets,.


Wrong. Jets have a certain number of cycles they can withstand before parts have to be replaced or the entire thing is past it's service life. This is extended by simply "rebuilding" much of the structure, but it still has a finite life. Aloha Airlines learned this the hard way when a 737 fuselage failed in flight, sucking out a flight attendant and anything else that was loose (no passengers died). The particular aircraft had been taken beyond it's intended service life in terms of pressurization cycles, although at the time it's airframe-hours were relatively low because it was only used to make short hops in between islands.

The construction and design of such jets is also so that the above mentioned rebuilding/inspection can take place. They most certainly do fail, they most certainly do have a finite fatigue life. If a bike was built like a jet-liner, you'd be able to replace some of the structural members seperately as they wore out or showed signs of fatigue. Of course your bike would cost 50x more and probably be heavier.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

Archi-Magus said:


> Not true. Many machines in the world use aluminum for decades without failure. Jets, dirt bikes, sport bikes, sport cars, etc. etc. put their parts through far more stress than a 45 lbs. DH bike. Everything has a finite life in theory, but accepting the fact that it's going to fail during normal use (i.e. exactly what it was designed for) is just straight up ridiculous.
> 
> Also, if you're going to accept the fact that it's just going to fail, you better ride the living ***** out of it within the warranty time in hopes that it will fail before the warranty runs out, assuming the manufacturer will even honor the warranty.


This is a tough one. From one perspective, a large manufacturer should replace a $200 front triangle, but on the other side of the story, it's an 07 that obviously took a beating. I think more than anything this is an issue with the shop and it's relationship with specialized. I don't think they would denie a warrantee issue if the shop had a solid standing with them and truly pushed for it. Either way I don't know who had denied him of a replacement, but I think if someone of power at specialized knew of this issue it would have been replaced in a heartbeat. I know I would have, and I own a similar type of business. If I were the bike owner I would try to contact specialized. Sucks that it has to be so hard to get this type of issue resolved.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

listen, if a company says that you can't strip the paint off of a frame or it voids the warranty and you go ahead and strip the paint and then your frame fails catastrophically from a manufacturing defect, they will not honour the warranty. regardless of how ridiculous it is, they say it for a reason. the reason is that they will do their best to not give you a free frame. if they say no forks above 175mm and yours is 176, tough luck, kid.

also, it is very rare that you will find a non-biased description in a thread of anyone wanting a warranty replacement. also, pinkbike.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Wrong. Jets have a certain number of cycles they can withstand before parts have to be replaced or the entire thing is past it's service life. This is extended by simply "rebuilding" much of the structure, but it still has a finite life. Aloha Airlines learned this the hard way when a 737 fuselage failed in flight, sucking out a flight attendant and anything else that was loose (no passengers died). The particular aircraft had been taken beyond it's intended service life in terms of pressurization cycles, although at the time it's airframe-hours were relatively low because it was only used to make short hops in between islands.
> 
> The construction and design of such jets is also so that the above mentioned rebuilding/inspection can take place. They most certainly do fail, they most certainly do have a finite fatigue life. If a bike was built like a jet-liner, you'd be able to replace some of the structural members seperately as they wore out or showed signs of fatigue. Of course your bike would cost 50x more and probably be heavier.


Thanks, didn't want to have to explain all that. Glad you took the time to. :thumbsup:


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

gticlay said:


> You guys have to understand that each aluminum frame out there WILL break. Guaranteed. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life and over time it'll most likely break at a weld because that's where the stress risers are. It was probably a very GOOD weld that was stressed heavily by someone that "shreds HARD" as Jim311 put it. So check your frame because it will crack and break at some point - if you crash hard or ride hard, it will break that much sooner.


Everything out there will fail sooner or later. Frames are designed to have relatively high safety factors, which mean that the aluminum will stay on the elastic zone of elongation during operation. The speed and load of the mechanical events, the treatments the material gets (shot peened for example) and the properties of such aluminum are factors that affect fatigue resistance severely. Moreover and continuing with the e-engineering, I think it is probable that the weld in that area had lack of fusion.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

saturnine said:


> listen, if a company says that you can't strip the paint off of a frame or it voids the warranty and you go ahead and strip the paint and then your frame fails catastrophically from a manufacturing defect, they will not honour the warranty. regardless of how ridiculous it is, they say it for a reason. the reason is that they will do their best to not give you a free frame. if they say no forks above 175mm and yours is 176, tough luck, kid.
> 
> also, it is very rare that you will find a non-biased description in a thread of anyone wanting a warranty replacement. also, pinkbike.


He's right. Unfortunately companies must protect themselves from frivolous warrantee issues, it's sad but fraud being a huge part. People actually break things intentually, I mean I'm no saint, and if I were young and broke and wanted the latiest and greatest I would have engineered a way to crack my frame to have it replaced. And I'm not suggesting you did this, I think your claim is genuine. But how easy would it be to do it, every year or two years crack your frame to get a new one. This is why there are so many strict rules to warantee. But like I said most knowledgeable reps or management can take a claim and figure out whether this is a legitimate claim and offer an immediate replacement, don't give up as I kid you not if you handle this the right way you should have no issue having it replaced. No way such a large manufacturer would deny your claim if addressed to the right person in the right manor. Good luck


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

tacubaya said:


> Everything out there will fail sooner or later. Frames are designed to have relatively high safety factors, which mean that the aluminum will stay on the elastic zone of elongation during operation. The speed and load of the mechanical events, the treatments the material gets (shot peened for example) and the properties of such aluminum are factors that affect fatigue resistance severely. Moreover and continuing with the e-engineering, I think it is probable that the weld in that area had lack of fusion.


Or the tubing was a little thin, pinhole in the weld, nick from a fork knob, The guy rode it real hard for 3 years, etc. I've evaluated plenty of frame breakages and you really have to see the frame in your hands (mostly BMX but also MTB). Usually it's obvious what happened.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

gticlay said:


> Or the tubing was a little thin, pinhole in the weld, nick from a fork knob, The guy rode it real hard for 3 years, etc. I've evaluated plenty of frame breakages and you really have to see the frame in your hands (mostly BMX but also MTB). Usually it's obvious what happened.


Lack of penetration, porosity, weld undercut, excessive weld convexity, center line mismatch... until close inspection/metallography/other BS is done, I can only e-engineer


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Jayem said:


> Wrong. Jets have a certain number of cycles they can withstand before parts have to be replaced or the entire thing is past it's service life. This is extended by simply "rebuilding" much of the structure, but it still has a finite life. Aloha Airlines learned this the hard way when a 737 fuselage failed in flight, sucking out a flight attendant and anything else that was loose (no passengers died). The particular aircraft had been taken beyond it's intended service life in terms of pressurization cycles, although at the time it's airframe-hours were relatively low because it was only used to make short hops in between islands.
> 
> The construction and design of such jets is also so that the above mentioned rebuilding/inspection can take place. They most certainly do fail, they most certainly do have a finite fatigue life. If a bike was built like a jet-liner, you'd be able to replace some of the structural members seperately as they wore out or showed signs of fatigue. Of course your bike would cost 50x more and probably be heavier.


You have managed to win the semantics game by discussing one of an infinite amount of machines that use aluminum parts, congratulations. When you wish to be realistic and discuss the other machines that truly do use aluminum parts for years on end without replacement, please let me know.

Although, thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that.


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## singletrackin (Oct 15, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> Not true. Many machines in the world use aluminum for decades without failure. Jets, dirt bikes, sport bikes, sport cars, etc. etc. put their parts through far more stress than a 45 lbs. DH bike. Everything has a finite life in theory, but accepting the fact that it's going to fail during normal use (i.e. exactly what it was designed for) is just straight up ridiculous.
> 
> Also, if you're going to accept the fact that it's just going to fail, you better ride the living ***** out of it within the warranty time in hopes that it will fail before the warranty runs out, assuming the manufacturer will even honor the warranty.


so do you think there are no failures is supercross/motocross bikes? or anything else you mentioned? you are sadly mistaken if think there are no failures in anything you mentioned.


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## MilesFR (Dec 9, 2010)

I am the owner and rider of this broken tin can bike. Do you think 5mm is REALLY that much of a difference? 175mm-180mm? Specialzed didn't even ask about the bike's configuration. They asked, "What happend?" I told them that after coming through a set of dirt jumps, (that voided the warranty) I set up for a vertical wall, rode up the wall smooth pushed off it, clicked a table- from about 10 feet up, brought it back, and on landing the headtube exploded off the bike swinging the front tire and fork up hitting me in the face nearly knocking me out. Thank god I wear a full face, I still got a black eye from it. If Specialized sent me a new frame, I wouldn't ride it, How can I trust them after this catastrophic failure? I want nothing but to share my story and to make people aware. I'm not one for charity, I just think people have a right to know. Thanks to Sneeck for bringing this to the mtbr forum.

http://curtdb.pinkbike.com/


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## Dougie (Aug 29, 2004)

Does Specialized have a crash-replacement policy? While I've been looking for a new DH bike for next season I've noticed that some companies have crash-replacement policies where they'll sell you a new frame in the event of a crash at a fraction (about 1/3 from what I've seen) of the cost of the original frame. 

Breaking a frame still sucks, but this is why something like this policy is important when looking at DH bikes.


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## Phierce (Jun 1, 2008)

Never tell them you were jumping. "Just riding along" is all they need to know.


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## MilesFR (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah, my mistake for being honest. I'm just going to go with a bike company I can be truthful with.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

MilesFR said:


> I am the owner and rider of this broken tin can bike. Do you think 5mm is REALLY that much of a difference? 175mm-180mm? Specialzed didn't even ask about the bike's configuration. They asked, "What happend?" I told them that after coming through a set of dirt jumps, (that voided the warranty) I set up for a vertical wall, rode up the wall smooth pushed off it, clicked a table- from about 10 feet up, brought it back, and on landing the headtube exploded off the bike swinging the front tire and fork up hitting me in the face nearly knocking me out. Thank god I wear a full face, I still got a black eye from it. If Specialized sent me a new frame, I wouldn't ride it, How can I trust them after this catastrophic failure? I want nothing but to share my story and to make people aware. I'm not one for charity, I just think people have a right to know. Thanks to Sneeck for bringing this to the mtbr forum.
> 
> http://curtdb.pinkbike.com/


It's not what you did right before it broke, it's all the other riding, added up. And I still think they should at least offer you a crash replacement.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

MilesFR said:


> Yeah, my mistake for being honest. I'm just going to go with a bike company I can be truthful with.


You might look at the Driver8. Check out the warranty comments there - search 'warranty' and 'willie'. They know how to treat customers.


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## johnrobholmes (Dec 6, 2010)

Aluminum fatigues with every cycle, it really is just a matter of time before a part breaks when dealing with the metal. Whether it is 100 cycles at 1 pound or 1 cycle at 100 pounds, all the same to aluminum. It is a very strong case for abused bikes to be made of steel. Steel can get damaged when pushed above the fatigue limits, but below this they do not show low cycle fatigue when the tempering, material, and construction are all in check. Furthermore, I would assert that a steel frame would have been more likely to bend or rip a bit instead of showing such catastrophic failure. 

At any rate, bummer to see that you had such failure Miles. Glad you could walk away from it. Maybe you should replace your frame every year if you insist to ride alloy.


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

gticlay said:


> This is actually a big reason why I moved away from Specialized. I have gone with Santa Cruz (they take CARE of you during warranty) and Pivot (have proven to be very good about it).


Santa cruz only offers a 2 year warranty, and suspension components (links, swingarm) are only covered up to a year. They quoted me $500 for a crash replacement swingarm on my V10. 
Specialized won't cover me because I'm not the original owner. $110 for a replacement '06 SX trail chainstay.
My buddy bought a cracked '06 demo online, for $40, specialized sent him a 2010 frame with RC4 and headset. 
It all depends what your LBS is willing to do, and if the person they get a hold of at the manufacturer is in a good mood or not.


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

johnrobholmes said:


> Aluminum fatigues with every cycle, it really is just a matter of time before a part breaks when dealing with the metal. Whether it is 100 cycles at 1 pound or 1 cycle at 100 pounds, all the same to aluminum. It is a very strong case for abused bikes to be made of steel. Steel can get damaged when pushed above the fatigue limits, but below this they do not show low cycle fatigue when the tempering, material, and construction are all in check. Furthermore, I would assert that a steel frame would have been more likely to bend or rip a bit instead of showing such catastrophic failure.
> 
> At any rate, bummer to see that you had such failure Miles. Glad you could walk away from it. Maybe you should replace your frame every year if you insist to ride alloy.


If you keep the applied stresses below the endurance limit, the part will have infinite life in regards to fatigue failure.

Bike designers know that. That's why putting a longer fork isn't immediately harmful but in the long run it can cause big problems. That's also why warranties expire. Finally, **** happens and you can't design against everything. If you want that, you're going to have a 36lb XC frame


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> If you keep the applied stresses below the endurance limit, the part will have infinite life in regards to fatigue failure.
> 
> Bike designers know that. That's why putting a longer fork isn't immediately harmful but in the long run it can cause big problems. That's also why warranties expire. Finally, **** happens and you can't design against everything. If you want that, you're going to have a 36lb XC frame


That is incorrect for aluminum. Steel yes, ti yes, carbon yes (but obviously more complicated), Al, no.


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

+5 on LBS support.

I briefly had an Enduro in '02 - but after five (5) failures in the first 9 months of ownership (and quick replacements by big-S) I sold the bike (with a 100% new frame) and moved on.

My LBS then really was stellar, and between them and S I was never off the bike for more than five business days, and usually no more than 2, but that was '02 and not now.

OTOH, I beat the crud out of a Titus from '03 to '10 and it just kept coming back for more, until the 1st w/e of Sept when the frame finally failed. Can't really complain about that. It was NOT a lightweight frame though, it WAS built to a higher durability standard. I really wonder how much we're losing these days because of the crazy focus on bike weight.


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

gticlay said:


> That is incorrect for aluminum. Steel yes, ti yes, carbon yes (but obviously more complicated), Al, no.


Really? Cite your source.


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## johnrobholmes (Dec 6, 2010)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...=7150423&md5=0b0a18db6a2b5b8f86b8bb101b0a3dc6

http://fde.uwaterloo.ca/Fde/Materials/dindex.html

http://xnet3.uss.com/auto/steelvsal/basicfacts.htm

Search for "metal endurance limit" to learn more about the how and why of material failure.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> Really? Cite your source.


Steel and Titanium can be operated indefinately below their stress limit. Aluminum, and some other metals have a pseudo stress limit but will fail eventually because they don't have a true 'endurance limit'. It's simply not the same thing. Just do a little searching and you will find plenty of sources.

Edit to add: as far as e-engineering goes, here's a weblink that you can follow and at least read about the different types of fatigue limits. Read about Fatigue Limits Here


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

gticlay said:


> Steel and Titanium can be operated indefinately below their stress limit. Aluminum, and some other metals have a pseudo stress limit but will fail eventually because they don't have a true 'endurance limit'. It's simply not the same thing. Just do a little searching and you will find plenty of sources.
> 
> Edit to add: as far as e-engineering goes, here's a weblink that you can follow and at least read about the different types of fatigue limits. Read about Fatigue Limits Here


I'm going off of the information in my ME design I class. That I have a final for tomorrow. That i should be studying instead of browsing MTBR. Thanks for the link.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> I'm going off of the information in my ME design I class. That I have a final for tomorrow. That i should be studying instead of browsing MTBR. Thanks for the link.


Good luck on the test :thumbsup:


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## Skidhucker (Aug 26, 2010)

Probably wouldn't have broke if it had more chainstays


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## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

Skidhucker said:


> Probably wouldn't have broke if it had more chainstays


HA!


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## MilesFR (Dec 9, 2010)

GTR2ebike said:


> Their is no way that's not from a crash, that's why it's not being warrantied. I've heard 99% great things about Specialized customer service and warranty
> check out this Thread


This was the wall ride that it snapped on. 
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5595646/


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

MilesFR said:


> This was the wall ride that it snapped on.
> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5595646/


Nice pics dude. Instead of giving you a hard time they should sponsor you.

That wall ride doesn't look to stressful on a bike. It was probably cracked before that moment. Just chalk it up to the cost of riding at your capabilities and buy another frame from a company who won't have a problem with you riding it the way its advertised.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> It all depends what your LBS is willing to do, and if the person they get a hold of at the manufacturer is in a good mood or not.


Sad. But true.


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## OffCamber (May 29, 2005)

92gli said:


> Nice pics dude. Instead of giving you a hard time they should sponsor you.
> 
> .


This was my thought also, knowing Miles and all the work he has done at Santos. Miles if you haven't I would try and go through a LBS. That's how a friend of mine gone his chainstays replaced after being to NO buy them directly.


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## wolfman00 (Jun 18, 2008)

SlickShoe671 said:


> When you buy a Parker, Jamis goes ahead and grabs another out of stock and puts your address on it.


probably so haha. So far the new rear has been fine though.


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

singletrackin said:


> so do you think there are no failures is supercross/motocross bikes? or anything else you mentioned? you are sadly mistaken if think there are no failures in anything you mentioned.


Not the type of failures you see in DH bikes, and not nearly as numerous. I have a cr250 I've been riding HARD since '05 and the aluminum components (even frame) that were stock are still in perfect condition. I have a friend that rides an '02 and it's the same story. There's a difference between something "failing" during normal use and actually breaking because of wear and tear over the course of its life time. I know guys that ride bikes from the 90's and they're still going strong.

The thing with mountain bikes is that manufacturers are constantly trying to out do each other in terms of weight, couple that with moto-esque speed and stress and you have a formula for breakage. Not only that but the sport is still young. In other sports they have accepted their average weight and make minuscule gains over the course of decades rather than shaving such high percentages of total weight every time they revamp a model.

Manufacturers learning as the sport progresses is expected, what is not expected is a company refusing a warranty because someone was jumping a bike specifically built for jumping. Simply accepting that something specifically intended for high stress use is going to break at some point is ridiculous. Especially when that something happens to be the very core of the bike -- the frame.


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## mgs781 (Dec 10, 2007)

jcsxj said:


> Well that's good to hear. They have a 'blanket' warranty for all bikes. This was pulled from their site.
> 
> 9. This bicycle is not intended for use in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe terrain, riding in severe climates, racing, riding with heavy loads, institutional or industrial use, or any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle, can cause serious injury to the rider, and in all cases will void this warranty. Likewise, the bicycle is not intended for use with a motor.


I bet it has more to do with the part about serious injury to the rider than the cost of a frame.

How much does that frame cost Specialized to produce, maybe $750.

If they warranty the frame then in a sense they are condoning the riding that broke it. That opens them up for personal injury lawsuits, which will cost much more than a SX Trail frame.

My 2 cents,


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

MilesFR said:


> I am the owner and rider of this broken tin can bike. Do you think 5mm is REALLY that much of a difference? 175mm-180mm?


Doesn't this bike come 160mm stock? adding 15mm to the fork changes the head tube angle a bit and that certainly increases stress at the point. But like a few others said they wear over time and it probably had a crack that you never saw, it's a pretty hard thing to see unless your looking for it. 
Not saying it's your fault or anything, if I were you i'd follow through to get them to warranty it.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

simply put, if they do all of their stress testing and whatnot with a 160mm fork, then that is all that they can assure you of - non-failure with 160mm fork. anything above that cannot be accounted for as it isn't meant for that. all the other factors are merely secondary. maybe it would've failed in the same area with a 140mm fork. problem is, you weren't using a 140mm fork. maybe fork travel is irrelevant. would they normally warranty a 4-year-old frame?


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## SlickShoe671 (Jan 23, 2008)

wolfman00 said:


> probably so haha. So far the new rear has been fine though.


I kid. I loved mine while I had it.


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

MilesFR said:


> This was the wall ride that it snapped on.
> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5595646/


Whoa, when did clay get put on the dirt jumps? and that's gotta be the greenest i've ever seen the vortex pit, is that color saturation on the pix?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Archi-Magus said:


> You have managed to win the semantics game by discussing one of an infinite amount of machines that use aluminum parts, congratulations. When you wish to be realistic and discuss the other machines that truly do use aluminum parts for years on end without replacement, please let me know.
> 
> Although, thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that.


But you are completely wrong, the stresses that a superbike frame sees may not be very significant given the thickness of the material and loads, this compared to the swingarm or a suspension component. Look at it in terms of the loads that are seen. Rally cars break parts all the time, wheels go flying by, A-arms break, and so on. How many times do the high-G load seats break though? (and how much do they cost?) During an inspection we found a landing-gear mount that was cracked on one of our aircraft. Luckily they do some pretty high-end inspections to find these kinds of things, but they have failed in the past, even at our organization. You stay in aviation for a while (10 years for me now) and you'll see it. In 10 years I've seen parts fail that have caused accidents. I'm not talking about on the news or heard from a friend, but BEEN THERE and WATCHED (and in some instances, EXPERIENCED). I'm done with my Master's degree in Safety, but this semester I'm taking a class in Accident Investigation for the hell of it. Your original argument of "aircraft" is fairly invalid due to the point that you can essentially rebuild nearly the entire aircraft much of the time, it's just a matter of cost. If you want to keep an aircraft going forever, that's pretty much what happens. A friend back in NorCal over the summer was helping refurbish some aircraft that had key structural members made out of wood (was rotting). Not cheap or easy to do, but they were replacing/repairing them. If you have to take the wings off, it can be done, although it would usually cost less to start over with a new airplane.

Aircraft, bikes, etc, they are designed for what the customer wants more than anything. If you want a bike that lasts forever, you'll pay tens of thousands of dollars to cover the cost of design, development, tooling ,etc, or you'll get something way heavier and overbuilt for 99.9% of situations. Otherwise, you'll be happy with your compramise.


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## HowMaybesGo (Oct 1, 2010)

eride1 said:


> But like I said most knowledgeable reps or management can take a claim and figure out whether this is a legitimate claim and offer an immediate replacement, *don't give up as I kid you not if you handle this the right way you should have no issue having it replaced. No way such a large manufacturer would deny your claim if addressed to the right person in the right manor.* Good luck


So true. stuff like expressing your loyalty to a company and how you have been so pleased with the service and product really makes them want to help you. i hope i never have to make a claim on my reign...... i have read some pretty bad stuff about their claim process.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

gticlay said:


> Steel and Titanium can be operated indefinately below their stress limit. Aluminum, and some other metals have a pseudo stress limit but will fail eventually because they don't have a true 'endurance limit'. It's simply not the same thing. Just do a little searching and you will find plenty of sources.
> 
> Edit to add: as far as e-engineering goes, here's a weblink that you can follow and at least read about the different types of fatigue limits. Read about Fatigue Limits Here


That's correct, Al cannot have an infinite fatigue life.

However, I'd like to see the price and weight of a steel frame with infinite fatigue life, usually a design for infinite fatigue life is not feasible or economical.

And with aluminum, it's hard to determine actual fatigue life because of messy stuff like welds, a small imperfection in the wrong place can cause a stress riser that will eventually lead to failure before the intended lifespan has been reached.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Crack a chainstay/seatstay no problem. Put a hairline crack somewhere no problem. When the bike splits in half it's whole different story. You see it all the time. It kind of sucks because this guy probably had a hairline crack that was pushed too far. If he saw the crack before hand they probably would've replaced it no questions asked.

I've noticed that the big S warranty has morphed over the past couple of years. One buddy had 8 rear shocks, 5 forks, and 6 chainstays break in the past 2 seasons on his 08 Enduro. It used to be free of charge and parts were overnighted. Now they charge him for these parts and ship it ground.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I think Spec is steadily getting more and more lame. More money for lower component specs, and now a severe blow to their only average warranty. No jumping?? That's ridiculous. I was actually starting to consider getting an SXT, but not anymore. I'm done with Special_ed.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

Not going to deter me from riding my 08 like it was meant to be.. 

Shame on them if they are not going to warranty that to the orginal owner with orginal purchase reciept.


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## zdubyadubya (Oct 5, 2008)

charging_rhinos said:


> I think Spec is steadily getting more and more lame. More money for lower component specs, and now a severe blow to their only average warranty. No jumping?? That's ridiculous. I was actually starting to consider getting an SXT, but not anymore. I'm done with Special_ed.


Its not so much the company... they are protecting themselves from fulfilling frivolous and sometimes costly warranty claims.

The person/persons really in charge of a warranty claim is your LBS and or local rep. If they are capable, understanding, and you approach them in the right way, anything can be resolved.

Case in point... in 2008 had a customer with a 04 big-hit, he had repainted it, powdercoated it, ran modified links, basically done everything that was the rage back then to make the big-hit a true huxxor bike. long story short, he cracks it. we were able to clean it up, put all the original parts back on it and I called our rep. He gives me a number for a gal at big S customer service. $300.00 and a week later, the customer has a 2008 demo 8 with dhx. and the best part, no-one ever asked for pictures to corroborate the claim.

Bottom Line - Its all in your approach. I guarantee if the OP talked to the warranty department like he has in this thread, I would have denied the claim as well.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

davec113 said:


> That's correct, Al cannot have an infinite fatigue life.
> 
> However, I'd like to see the price and weight of a steel frame with infinite fatigue life, usually a design for infinite fatigue life is not feasible or economical.
> 
> And with aluminum, it's hard to determine actual fatigue life because of messy stuff like welds, a small imperfection in the wrong place can cause a stress riser that will eventually lead to failure before the intended lifespan has been reached.


Haha. It would have to be a tank. Even Profile and Flight chromoly (BMX) cranks break. I built a pneumatic crank 'breaker' to test crank life and they do cycle for a very long time but they all break after a certain number of cycles.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Still they should man up and give him crash replacement at the very least since the frame does have lifetime warranty and he is the first owner. They crash replace helmets too, but I doubt there would be a limit to the height of which you can fall before you void it's warranty.

I agree the otherwise relaxed, down to earth way we biker's discuss and see these type of problem's is not the way big corporations tend to see or understand thing's. If you approach them in a kiss ass and suck up kind of way you make them feel good which would want them to grant your warranty request cause it would result in better reviews. Specialized warranty was for years the best in the industry, even used frame's would be replaced by newer models with shocks included and what not. Everybody was talking about it on the interwebs which would obviously stimulate buying their products. Now with the economy getting all shitty they probably need to cut budget on this cause i'm very sure it is costing them a ***** load of money each year to do this.(probably due to all you used buyers claiming warranty! Shame on you!!) It's not directly out of generosity i'm sure, they know how to keep customer's happy and it's a very effective strategy. But this new approach to cover them in on pretty much any surface is waking people up that you basicly void your warranty if you touch your bike. Atleast that's what I hope this thread will do, this is not the way to support the bike industry. Frankly i'm not surprised other big manufacturers like Trek and Giant would got simular policy's.


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

In light of the information in this thread, would it not be desirable to simply build frames out of something other than aluminum? I'm still not convinced that aluminum is simply going to out right fail at some point only for the fact that it's aluminum (motocross anyone?), but if we are to accept that as fact, why in the hell would they build frames out of such an unreliable material?


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## Skidhucker (Aug 26, 2010)

Your LBS must suck or Specialized just hates them. I've had a few warranty claims and the new part usually shows up before the old one has even been sent out both frames and linkages.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

180mm fork alone voids warranty. Nuff said

How bout its a bike that has been thrashed for four years.

I have worked at a few bike shops and Specialized has one of the best warranties out there. Sometimes they cant do it. There is a reason they dont let people run 180mm+ forks and abuse the crap out of them for years. NO company would and you wouldnt either.

End thread.


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## GFAthens (Sep 10, 2009)

That is ridiculous. Bikes should be warrantied for what they are advertised to do.


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## roguebuilder (Jun 6, 2008)

edit: GFAthens hit part of my point before I finished replying.

^ ^ ^ Not really "nuff said" or "End thread"
...because the length of fork was not discussed before the OP was told warranty was void.

The fork size being a factor, valid or not, is for a different discussion. This thread is in regard to the fact that the bike was jumped and that voided warranty... _according to the OP. _

The current Specialized site shows an SX jumping in the air being whipped. also from their site: "•M5 manipulated alloy frame with 180mm of travel, ORE tubing, ISCG mount, and replaceable derailleur hanger creates a tough and maneuverable bike for backwoods *huck sessions*"
Is this false advertising? Is the no jumping just part of the previous model's warranty?

Maybe there's more to this story?

I ride a Demo 7 and love the bike. I'm not choosing sides, just spewing food for thought and keeping things to the point - according to the OP, the warranty was void for jumping.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

HTFR said:


> 180mm fork alone voids warranty. Nuff said
> 
> How bout its a bike that has been thrashed for four years.
> 
> ...





MilesFR said:


> Specialzed didn't even ask about the bike's configuration. They asked, "What happend?"


That's the thing, they didn't even know he was running a fork that voids the warranty!! If they did know their first response would be fair, now they basicly say you jumped it bye warranty which is the borderline of lame and carelessness of customers.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

I will talk to my sales rep next week and ask about this because that doesnt ad up. Unless his LBS was on the phone with specialized and was like "yeah he probably misused the bike and he looks like a D-bag hahaha, yeah iv seen a rc3 on that bike before, hahaha what a D-dag hahah". Iv seen bike shops do this before (not with specialized) but it does influence a warranty claim some times.


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Archi-Magus said:


> In light of the information in this thread, would it not be desirable to simply build frames out of something other than aluminum? I'm still not convinced that aluminum is simply going to out right fail at some point only for the fact that it's aluminum (motocross anyone?), but if we are to accept that as fact, why in the hell would they build frames out of such an unreliable material?


Because it really isn't that unreliable. This is a thready about warranties so every cracked frame story out there is getting brought up. 
Also, people want sub 40lb DH bikes and that isn't too hard to do reliably with aluminum. To get steel to be that light, you run into strength issues due to it being a heavier material. 
Not to mention the way the top half of the market buys and sells their new frame every season or two means they don't have to worry about it, and they're the primary customer.


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## steve47co1 (May 18, 2005)

*Bingo!*

I think this is the case right here - if the claimant comes in with an attitude and does not have a relationship with the shop; didn't buy the bike there, etc., then I can tell you that has a direct correlation with the quality of the conversation with the Specialized warranty department.

I am a large Specialized dealer and I have to say that our warranty claims are rarely, if ever, denied as long as we don't have a person screaming at us at the counter and being downright unreasonable. I have had these folks at the counter occasionally and I have asked them nicely to calm down - I understand they are upset. If they will work with me, I will work with them. As far as that goes, I don't think this type of response is restricted to bike shops, either; try throwing an infantile fit anywhere in the world today and see what happens. In court, you will go to jail; in a crowd, you will get beat up; with a traffic stop, you will get a ticket or spread out over the trunk of your car; in a restaurant, the wait staff will spit in your food in the kitchen. What always amazes me is that people feel free to go joovy in bike shops and they wouldn't even consider it anywhere else. And yes, the world is not fair and nothing is bulletproof - we are human and engineering is done by humans. Grow up and behave - you will always catch more flies with honey than vinegar.



HTFR said:


> I will talk to my sales rep next week and ask about this because that doesnt ad up. Unless his LBS was on the phone with specialized and was like "yeah he probably misused the bike and he looks like a D-bag hahaha, yeah iv seen a rc3 on that bike before, hahaha what a D-dag hahah". Iv seen bike shops do this before (not with specialized) but it does influence a warranty claim some times.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

So lemme summarize here..... Its a 3-4 year old bike thats been ridden hard as hell with an out of spec fork. Breaks, which is probably inevitable. The frame's rider probably can't reasonably expect a warranty. 

People then get up in arms because of the way spesh denies the warranty and start making all sorts of wild speculation about not being able to use a FR/park bike for its intended purpose. Much internet wailing and gnashing of teeth ensues. 

Cool, I think I'll still buy an SXT.


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## steve47co1 (May 18, 2005)

*I have one!*

I have a 2010 SX Trail and I love it! The new ones (2011) are in my shop now and I am tempted..........


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

zdubyadubya said:


> Its not so much the company... they are protecting themselves from fulfilling frivolous and sometimes costly warranty claims.
> 
> The person/persons really in charge of a warranty claim is your LBS and or local rep. If they are capable, understanding, and you approach them in the right way, anything can be resolved.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I understand the risks involved in their warranties, and I don't envy them for what they have to go through on account of it. I guess the part that makes me mad is the inequality aspect. It shouldn't be a matter of who your friends are in the bike world to get something repaired/replaced. I work in the climbing and skiing industry and I get SO TIRED of the morons that get hired/promoted just because their bff, Mr. Broseph vonSickter, works in the marketing dept or whatever. I know it's hard for companies to judge exactly what happened to make a bike fail, but why do some get a brand new upgraded bike in a few days, while others are treated like it's a 6-month process auto accident claim? That's the part I'm not ok with.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

GTR2ebike said:


> Their is no way that's not from a crash, that's why it's not being warrantied. I've heard 99% great things about Specialized customer service and warranty
> check out this Thread


yep probably a few 50/50 a landings....bike just wore out....I have seen a Foes wear out too....West Coast Hucker was riding and the headtube broke on a little 1 foot bump...his bike was abused for awhile....warranties are there to protect us as riders for problems with the frames.....but if you crash then you need to pony up your money and buy a new one


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Granted I overlooked the fact he ran a 66 on an older sxt which I know voids the warranty, i'm sorry for that. But that's not my point. It has nothing to do with a 4 year old frame being used for what it's intended. What I find wrong is like Roquebuilder has pointed out that they advertise their frame's to do hard riding, yet in their warranty policy state the absolute opposite and with the warranty claim denied so easy without even asking for his bike setup is just wrong. More wrong than all the people trying to get warranty on used bike's, _that_ does seem to be accepted on here funny enough(which is scamming ofcourse, a bit worse than voiding a bike's warranty and still try to claim it cause it failed catastrophicly)


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

big_slacker said:


> So lemme summarize here..... Its a 3-4 year old bike thats been ridden hard as hell with an out of spec fork. Breaks, which is probably inevitable. The frame's rider probably can't reasonably expect a warranty.
> 
> People then get up in arms because of the way spesh denies the warranty and start making all sorts of wild speculation about not being able to use a FR/park bike for its intended purpose. Much internet wailing and gnashing of teeth ensues.
> 
> Cool, I think I'll still buy an SXT.


It's not speculation, there is a copy of the warranty description in the thread. It states that it's not OK to jump this bike (BTW are we SURE this is the warranty card for this frame?). If it's not OK to jump the SX Trail, then what is it they meant with their marketing messages about it being a freeride bike...? Why did they have ads with Bearclaw sending it on all sorts of gnar? That's the bit I want clarity on.


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## LonesomeCowboyBert (Apr 11, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Wrong. ..blah blah blah


How is he wrong ?...he said jets last for decades... and they do
Ill just say before you start spouting off more crap to impress the ignorant, I have the UK equivalent of an A&P airframe license....... replacement of structural parts of an airframe that ARENT decades old is a VERY rare occurence


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## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Iceman2058 said:


> It's not speculation, there is a copy of the warranty description in the thread. It states that it's not OK to jump this bike (BTW are we SURE this is the warranty card for this frame?). If it's not OK to jump the SX Trail, then what is it they meant with their marketing messages about it being a freeride bike...? Why did they have ads with Bearclaw sending it on all sorts of gnar? That's the bit I want clarity on.


A warranty covers defects. A crash replacement covers crashes.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

The speculation isn't about a scan/photo of the card, but rather how spesh will honor the warranty. Manufacturers put all kinds of nonsensical disclaimers on their products in an attempt to protect against frivolous claims, but still honor warranties when there are manufacturing defects. In fact if you do a little web searching you'll find that the warranty text everyone is freaking out about is generic and likely included with every spesh bike. I probably have the same one lying around the house from my langster.

This doesn't mean you can't jump a freeride bike without voiding the warranty. If the frame has bad welds and it snaps you're likely gonna get it replaced. If you pound the **** out of it for 4 years and it breaks you should probably pony up some bread for a new frame. :thumbsup:



Iceman2058 said:


> It's not speculation, there is a copy of the warranty description in the thread. It states that it's not OK to jump this bike (BTW are we SURE this is the warranty card for this frame?). If it's not OK to jump the SX Trail, then what is it they meant with their marketing messages about it being a freeride bike...? Why did they have ads with Bearclaw sending it on all sorts of gnar? That's the bit I want clarity on.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Again, my point is that I find it hard to match this part of the warranty text with how they market this bike (assuming again that this is indeed the warranty text that goes with this frame):

"This bicycle or frameset has not been designed, engineered, distributed, manufactured, or retailed for uses in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe terrain, riding in severe climates, riding with heavy loads, commercial activities, or any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle, can cause serious injury to the rider, and in all cases will void this warranty."

I understand the difference between warranty and crash replacement. I furthermore understand that manufacturers often have to make calls on what is a defect and what is not (and that many times people come away all the better for it, with new frames etc). I get all that. What I don't get is how it can be OK to market the bike the way they do, and then to claim that if you snap a frame while jumping it, their warranty is no good (and yes, in this case, that frame did snap along the weld, so it would be fair to assume that there might have been a defect there). It just does not seem right. OK so don't make it a lifetime warranty on the aggressive frames, make it a 3 or 4 year warranty under heavy use....but don't just state that if you jump it then you're on your own. 

Simplifying that text: "we didn't build this bike for it to be jumped". Really? The SX Trail? Really?


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## LonesomeCowboyBert (Apr 11, 2008)

Well put, Slacker


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LonesomeCowboyBert said:


> How is he wrong ?...he said jets last for decades... and they do
> Ill just say before you start spouting off more crap to impress the ignorant, I have the UK equivalent of an A&P airframe license....... replacement of structural parts of an airframe that ARENT decades old is a VERY rare occurence


Cool.

How many last that long with no new engines. stringers, flight controls, cables, actuators, etc? Oh yeah, I remember now, they are designed so that many high-load parts can be switched out and have finite service lives. They just don't "keep flying" over 20 years without being torn way down and having many parts replaced. It might be rare for a major structural part to be replaced, but bikes are NOT designed like airliners, not even close. There's a whole different philosophy and just because one lasts a certain amount of time doesn't mean anything for the other.


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Iceman2058 said:


> Again, my point is that I find it hard to match this part of the warranty text with how they market this bike (assuming again that this is indeed the warranty text that goes with this frame):
> 
> "This bicycle or frameset has not been designed, engineered, distributed, manufactured, or retailed for uses in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe terrain, riding in severe climates, riding with heavy loads, commercial activities, or any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle, can cause serious injury to the rider, and in all cases will void this warranty."
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly. The fact that they didn't know about his fork or even ask before denying the warranty, which they denied because he stated that he broke it while jumping, is the disturbing part. Honestly the only thing is this thread that matters is the fact that they denied it ONLY because he stated that he was jumping. They didn't ask about the fork and according to the rider's admission the second he informed them he was jumping they denied the warranty. Every other point is moot.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes, the generic warranty card that goes into the box with every bike they make doesn't make sense with a FR bike.

But they still honor their warranty for defects. Both things can happen and the world won't stop turning. 



Iceman2058 said:


> Again, my point is that I find it hard to match this part of the warranty text with how they market this bike (assuming again that this is indeed the warranty text that goes with this frame):
> 
> "This bicycle or frameset has not been designed, engineered, distributed, manufactured, or retailed for uses in trick riding, ramp riding, jumping, aggressive riding, riding on severe terrain, riding in severe climates, riding with heavy loads, commercial activities, or any similar activities; such uses may damage the bicycle, can cause serious injury to the rider, and in all cases will void this warranty."
> 
> ...


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## LonesomeCowboyBert (Apr 11, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Cool.
> 
> How many last that long with no new engines. stringers, flight controls, cables, actuators, etc? Oh yeah, I remember now, they are designed so that many high-load parts can be switched out and have finite service lives. They just don't "keep flying" over 20 years without being torn way down and having many parts replaced. It might be rare for a major structural part to be replaced, but bikes are NOT designed like airliners, not even close. There's a whole different philosophy and just because one lasts a certain amount of time doesn't mean anything for the other.


Your doing it again...we are talking about the primary structure, the OP broke the primary structure not part of a control system or ancillary

Your right that the an aircraft is not a bike (well done) ..BUT
you tried to belittle someone over a comment he made when the comment was actually 100% true (possibly irrelevant but definately True) ....stop being a plonker about it


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## MilesFR (Dec 9, 2010)

big_slacker said:


> So lemme summarize here..... Its a 3-4 year old bike thats been ridden hard as hell with an out of spec fork. Breaks, which is probably inevitable. The frame's rider probably can't reasonably expect a warranty.
> 
> People then get up in arms because of the way spesh denies the warranty and start making all sorts of wild speculation about not being able to use a FR/park bike for its intended purpose. Much internet wailing and gnashing of teeth ensues.
> 
> Cool, I think I'll still buy an SXT.


I wouldn't have said a word if I would of cracked a chain stay or had some other minor break, I know those types of things happen when you ride hard. But I was almost seriously injured from my head tube snapping off like a match stick then swinging my forks in the air hitting me in the face. Luckily it was on a wall ride and not the 20ft double I hit right before it. Who cares about the warranty, this is a major safety issue. I really liked my SXT, but now I can't stand the thought of it being that it could of ended my riding days forever.

http://curtdb.pinkbike.com/

http://www.darktimbers.com/category/contests/thewhip/


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LonesomeCowboyBert said:


> Your right that the an aircraft is not a bike, blah blah blah blah..


Thank you.


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## Trail-Shredder (Mar 13, 2010)

I believe the warranty refers/generalizes to ALL Specialized bikes, they are not writing warranties for each model they produce. Considering the only frames they make that are actual designed for aggressive riding compared to all the others that are not, that is a tiny portion of Specialized. If you actually crack a frame from a defected weld riding those bikes as intended, they will warranty it. If the frames cracks from normal riding and the frame has reached it's life expectancy, they are not going to warranty it. Otherwise it would be, buy a bike for life from Specialized, once it breaks no matter the reason, they will give you a new one. That is why most small companies only offer a 2 year tops warranty, makes it simple...if a defect in the frame building is going to surface, it usually is within 2 years of purchase....not after 4 + years of hard riding.


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## LonesomeCowboyBert (Apr 11, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Thank you.


My Pleasure,........now go back and read the part about not being a plonker


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## warpaint (Mar 31, 2010)

maybe the part in the manual that says ac height of 545 max not 564, like your sorry ass was running, is more important than the part that says not to jump it? you entered a wold of pain on your own. jump the fcuk out of it and cry when you break it with a 6 inch fork because that bike was built to do that but put something else on there it is a different story.


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## MilesFR (Dec 9, 2010)

FloridaFish said:


> Whoa, when did clay get put on the dirt jumps? and that's gotta be the greenest i've ever seen the vortex pit, is that color saturation on the pix?


Check out the Santos Trails Facebook page. Myself and a few other guys keep it updated. There are detailed trail conditions under the discussions.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Santos-Trails/114499691946893


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

All this talk about the fork travel was too long is a bunch of bull. This has no merit to the issue, if a bike manufacturer especially of this size and caliber is to release a bike and do some testing then it should be tested to the max of what the market offers, and regardless what difference would one inch actually make, I heard all this scientific mumbo jumbo on aluminum, PLEASE.... No sh1t on stress of head angles please. but to what degree do you think one inch would actually make on this, take in mind the fork compresses, some people may setup there forks improperly and have to heavy a spring and a **** load of preload giving the bike a higher ride height but maybe someone who is running a fork with too long a travel but runs the correct sag and a a super soft spring giving the bike a lower ride height, all relative, so you have to through the travel length out for many reasons. So to the guy who's getting juked around, if specialized or the shop tries to throw, oh the bike is tested for a shorter fork then ask him to show you the test results on a frame that was tested with the fork being too long. They won't cause they have none, so how the he'll can they say it's too long. Good luck as I'm expecting pics of your new frame.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

eride1 said:


> All this talk about the fork travel was too long is a bunch of bull. This has no merit to the issue, if a bike manufacturer especially of this size and caliber is to release a bike and do some testing then it should be tested to the max of what the market offers, and regardless what difference would one inch actually make, I heard all this scientific mumbo jumbo on aluminum, PLEASE.... No sh1t on stress of head angles please. but to what degree do you think one inch would actually make on this, take in mind the fork compresses, some people may setup there forks improperly and have to heavy a spring and a **** load of preload giving the bike a higher ride height but maybe someone who is running a fork with too long a travel but runs the correct sag and a a super soft spring giving the bike a lower ride height, all relative, so you have to through the travel length out for many reasons. So to the guy who's getting juked around, if specialized or the shop tries to throw, oh the bike is tested for a shorter fork then ask him to show you the test results on a frame that was tested with the fork being too long. They won't cause they have none, so how the he'll can they say it's too long. Good luck as I'm expecting pics of your new frame.


So bikes all the way down to a hardtail should be tested with a triple crown fork? That's just plain dumb/stupid/ignorant/???


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm not a specialized fan, but I have a lot of respect for this company that took a mom and pop idea into a biking icon. And I think 99% of riders will feel the same way, so if you guys at specialized are reading this, give the kid a new frame it's not like he's claiming to be a rich guy committing fraud, he's just a biker trying to have some fun. his riding pic shows the actually incident taking place and quit impressive to say the least. Food for thought, he's flossing your bike at local parks and probably has a few grooms drooling over his bike riding ability wanting to get that exact bike. I mean isn't that the same reasoning one would pay Sam hill to ride your bike, cause it increases sales.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

gticlay said:


> So bikes all the way down to a hardtail should be tested with a triple crown fork? That's just plain dumb/stupid/ignorant/???


Let's not be stupid, although that maybe hard for you. With in reason, who runs a triple crown fork on a ht. But to run a 160-180 sc fork isn't especially on the bike he's riding. Next time post something that makes any sense other than just wanting to debate about something. I can see you have made it far in life... Good luck as you'll need it.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

eride1 said:


> Let's not be stupid, although that maybe hard for you. With in reason, who runs a triple crown fork on a ht. But to run a 160-180 sc fork isn't especially on the bike he's riding. Next time post something that makes any sense other than just wanting to debate about something. I can see you have made it far in life... Good luck as you'll need it.


You are kind of hard (headed) but I'll play because it's funny, at least to me. You said "should be tested to the max of what the market offers..." The market offers a combination of long travel triple clamp forks and hardtails. The market offers this and PEOPLE PUT THEM ON. It took me about 1 websearch to find these:


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow, good job.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

eride1 said:


> Wow, good job.


I was thinking the same thing when I read your post. Wow good job. Say you like the company, then say they should test it for forks outside the forks they tested it for. You be good :madman:


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

In all seriousness, being an sx trail it is not surprising people might run longer forks on them. It is after all a freeride frame, if you live in an area where there are more hill's/ steep downhill section's you might do this to get a bit slacker head angle. It is just the same as to fitting a higher lower headset cup, the difference being so small I doubt they didn't thought about this.

Hell there are plenty of enduro rider's out there with totem's even... If memory serves correct people actually encourage'd eachother on these boards to fit them :skep:


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I don't think its really that big of a deal either. I've run out of spec (read longer) forks on every single bike I'm owned. But I wouldn't ***** about a company not backing its product if I rode it hard for 3-5 years and it broke. I mean, its inevitable. None of this stuff I'm typing is meant to dog the OP (like some are doing, downright a-holes), just trying to get a point across.

The point is, its reasonable to expect **** to break if you ride it hard over time. So be reasonable with your expectations of a company. Yes it sucks that it broke the way that it did since it caused a bad crash and could have been worse. I'd try for a crash replacement through a local dealer and if it doesn't pan out then cool, it was time for a new bike anyway right?



Sneeck said:


> In all seriousness, being an sx trail it is not surprising people might run longer forks on them. It is after all a freeride frame, if you live in an area where there are more hill's/ steep downhill section's you might do this to get a bit slacker head angle. It is just the same as to fitting a higher lower headset cup, the difference being so small I doubt they didn't thought about this.
> 
> Hell there are plenty of enduro rider's out there with totem's even... If memory serves correct people actually encourage'd eachother on these boards to fit them :skep:


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## Trail-Shredder (Mar 13, 2010)

Sneeck said:


> In all seriousness, being an sx trail it is not surprising people might run longer forks on them. It is after all a freeride frame, if you live in an area where there are more hill's/ steep downhill section's you might do this to get a bit slacker head angle. It is just the same as to fitting a higher lower headset cup, the difference being so small I doubt they didn't thought about this.
> 
> Hell there are plenty of enduro rider's out there with totem's even... If memory serves correct people actually encourage'd eachother on these boards to fit them :skep:


It has nothing to do with what people perceive as what they want to or think they should run for a fork on the frame Vs. what the frame was intended to handle. If everyone put forks on a frame that they were not intended to handle and that company had numerous snapped head tube issues...life time warranty or not...what are you going to do? End of the day it is all about money and saving your companies ass. So no matter the bike, the company, run a fork larger travel then it was designed to handle...deal with the non warranty when $hit happens. And yes a bigger fork dual or single crown adds a lot of extra stress to a head tube.


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## rudaripu (Dec 15, 2010)

gticlay said:


> You guys have to understand that each aluminum frame out there WILL break. Guaranteed. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life and over time it'll most likely break at a weld because that's where the stress risers are. It was probably a very GOOD weld that was stressed heavily by someone that "shreds HARD" as Jim311 put it. So check your frame because it will crack and break at some point - if you crash hard or ride hard, it will break that much sooner.


I think it was a manufacture defect, in one of the pictures teh front wheel looks fine after the crash, even though fatiuge life is finite the number of cycles to reach failure should exceed by a far margin the run time of the equipment...


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

Dude.....just buy a new bike


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

I fully understand the increase of loads and stuff, that's beside the point. All i'm saying is I find it hard to believe they didn't test for this, you can expect people to do this so better be safe then sorry right? But apparently the slight increase isn't accounted for in the frame's strength, though luck. I'm still calling either a hairline crack or bad weld cause of the way it broke. 

Anywho you are right ofcourse, allthough Spec should do a crash replacement. This thread was basicly to rip their customer service.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Whether he ran a longer fork or not is irrelevant in regards to their poor customer service. They didn't even so much as ask for pictures of the broken frame. The second they found out that their frame was jumped they voided his warranty. They didn't even get far enough into the inquiry to find out that he'd run a longer than spec fork, which would be understandable for them to deny the warranty on that grounds. They denied the warranty solely based on the fact that the bike left the ground, which is super ghey.


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## [email protected] (Jul 22, 2010)

MilesFR said:


> I am the owner and rider of this broken tin can bike. Do you think 5mm is REALLY that much of a difference? 175mm-180mm? Specialzed didn't even ask about the bike's configuration. They asked, "What happend?" I told them that after coming through a set of dirt jumps, (that voided the warranty) I set up for a vertical wall, rode up the wall smooth pushed off it, clicked a table- from about 10 feet up, brought it back, and on landing the headtube exploded off the bike swinging the front tire and fork up hitting me in the face nearly knocking me out. Thank god I wear a full face, I still got a black eye from it. If Specialized sent me a new frame, I wouldn't ride it, How can I trust them after this catastrophic failure? I want nothing but to share my story and to make people aware. I'm not one for charity, I just think people have a right to know. Thanks to Sneeck for bringing this to the mtbr forum.
> 
> http://curtdb.pinkbike.com/


Sorry to see that! While we can't offer a warranty in a situation like this, we still want to get you back on your bike asap. We do offer a crash replacement (a steep discount) on a new frame if you are the original owner. Have you brought this up with your Specialized dealership? I can assure you that our SX line is very, very strong and we would like a chance to get you back on one. By the way, glad to hear you are OK!!!


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to see that! While we can't offer a warranty in a situation like this, we still want to get you back on your bike asap. We do offer a crash replacement (a steep discount) on a new frame if you are the original owner. Have you brought this up with your Specialized dealership? I can assure you that our SX line is very, very strong and we would like a chance to get you back on one. By the way, glad to hear you are OK!!!


The real question here is does jumping said bike void it's warranty? That's pretty much the whole concern in this thread, the fact that a slope style bike can't be jumped without voiding warranty.


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## saxen (Jun 15, 2009)

if you own a car company and you tell your customers if you put 180 octane gas in the car you void your warranty and a customer goes out and does it, the engine blows who is at fault? err duh, the customer- you told him not to, he did, his car blew up- to bad....


do not put more than 175mm fork on this bike, or it will void your warranty- so what does he do? goes out and puts a longer than 175mm fork on the bike, it broke- i cannot believe the company dint test for that!!! well they prob did, thats why they put limits on it- 



now i believe the company should offer crash rep- and i believe they did- the pics look bad, and to be honest i dont want a bike from that co anyway, but really it comes down to the customer doing something the company told him not to. then wondering why his bike broke and called it not safe- i feel for the op, however in this case he is in the wrong.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Why do you guys keep bringing up the f'ing fork when the warranty was denied for jumping?!!


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## mattyboi (Oct 25, 2010)

Jason B. said:


> Why do you guys keep bringing up the f'ing fork when the warranty was denied for jumping?!!


i second that y the hell is warranty void for jumping? i can understand the fork but they didnt even ask about anything on thr bike oh u jumped it no warranty


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to see that! While we can't offer a warranty in a situation like this, we still want to get you back on your bike asap. We do offer a crash replacement (a steep discount) on a new frame if you are the original owner. Have you brought this up with your Specialized dealership? I can assure you that our SX line is very, very strong and we would like a chance to get you back on one. By the way, glad to hear you are OK!!!


So can you or can you not jump them?

michael


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

How about this:

If you support your local shop, no problem.

If you but the frame for the lowest $$$ from some mail order place and don't have a local shop... it's gonna cost you a crash replacement when you ride for 4 years on the same old frame, even if you are "SUPRISED" when it breaks.
:madman:


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## camarosam (Jul 26, 2009)

Lunchbox362 said:


> Dude.....just buy a new bike


+10

This thread basically just brought all the specialized haters to one thread where they can all vent their hate towards specialized.

Fact; Specialized has the best warranty coverage of any bike company, period.

I was in a bike shop last year and the guy cracked the frame of his 2001 enduro, and specialized was hooking him up with a brand new endruo frame. A 10 YEAR OLD FRAME!!

You see nothing but good posts about their warranty coverage, so turn the page and get on with your life.


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## roguebuilder (Jun 6, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to see that! While we can't offer a warranty in a situation like this, we still want to get you back on your bike asap. We do offer a crash replacement (a steep discount) on a new frame if you are the original owner. Have you brought this up with your Specialized dealership? I can assure you that our SX line is very, very strong and we would like a chance to get you back on one. By the way, glad to hear you are OK!!!


Please answer the one question that matters... does jumping an SX trail void warranty? Let's assume we're talking about an all stock model with correct fork length etc.

Yes or no?


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to see that! While we can't offer a warranty in a situation like this, we still want to get you back on your bike asap. We do offer a crash replacement (a steep discount) on a new frame if you are the original owner. Have you brought this up with your Specialized dealership? I can assure you that our SX line is very, very strong and we would like a chance to get you back on one. By the way, glad to hear you are OK!!!


The "situation like this" you refer to is basically called honesty. The guy said "jump", and instead of "how high" you said "AHA - we're off the hook for this one". 
If he would have sent you that frame saying it snapped while JRA, you would have said "looks like a pretty serious manufacturing defect" and sent him a new one.

Can you address the point we all want to know about - does jumping a bike from the "gravity" line up really void warranty?


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

I suspect that the "no jumping" applies to bikes not meant to be jumped, eg bikes like their hybrids, etc. I can pretty much guarantee that the "riding for long periods of time going big on an out of spec overly long fork" was the reason they didn't warranty it, not the jumping.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

GTR2ebike said:


> Doesn't this bike come 160mm stock? adding 15mm to the fork changes the head tube angle a bit and that certainly increases stress at the point. But like a few others said they wear over time and it probably had a crack that you never saw, it's a pretty hard thing to see unless your looking for it.
> Not saying it's your fault or anything, if I were you i'd follow through to get them to warranty it.


The frame is warrantied for up to 175mm travel fork.

It's not the travel of the fork that really matters, but rather axle to crown height.


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## tls36 (Dec 10, 2005)

clay has a point, if more people supported their local bike shop, then i firmly believe that dealer would do all he or she could for the customer. My biggest problem with Spec on this one is not the fork thing, BUT clearly advertising this bike as being up for "backwoods huck sessions", then stating jumping voids the warranty, come on Specialized, you can't have it both ways!!!!!!!!!! How can anyone take them seriously on that?? Dude, I would take the offer for crash replacement for a smaller amount of $$$$......................


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## tls36 (Dec 10, 2005)

Incidentally i am considering a new SX Trail 2 as my 2nd bike, am I crazy??? Had a new '06 Enduro expert, zero problems............


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## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

Threads like these, why I never use mtbr...........


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Bike owner -- "All I told them was that I jumped the bike and they denied the warranty."

Tons of people who apparently don't read or lack reading comprehension -- "You ran too large of a fork on the front and voided the warranty."

Tons of other people that actually read "You're missing the point, they never even asked about the fork."

And now it continues over the course of 3 pages. Shall we see how long we can continue this cycle?


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Yes why not. There are way more stupid threads on mtbr and this one is pretty clean so far from what i've seen. Atleast allot of people get it that it has little to do with a larger fork, more the lack of careness from Specialized to really ask what happend. That stuff bother's me from such a large company and all the hype they got the best warranty in the industry.

Or let [email protected] answer this question and we'll be done with it.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

RYAN E said:


> Threads like these, why I never use mtbr...........


Never?


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## [email protected] (Jul 22, 2010)

mykel said:


> So can you or can you not jump them?
> 
> michael


A bike like the SX or SX trail falls under our category '5' , which states that the bicycle is made for more aggressive riding that includes jumping. That being said, we also must state that ANY bicycle will fail when pushed to too much of an extreme and this category 5 is not a license to 'try anything' on the bike. Ultimately, if the bike fails it is the call of the warranty representative as to whether or not it will be warrantied. If a warranty is denied and you are the original owner of the bike, then a crash replacement is ALWAYS an option.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

*My couple cents*

I bet the frame costs 150 to make 
spec spends money on advertising, which sells bikes like it or not

they want to sell bikes so they manfacture them to look a certain way and weigh a relatively low amount, they want to sell bikes and that is why they pay pros to make'em look good and why they manufacture them to look light when a buyer compares frame weights

they know what sells and that is why they bought the monster downhill team and why they make light frames ,

Their approach sells lots of bikes and makes them lots of money, 
spec bikes are nothing _Special_ though their marketing is top notch

lesson is don't tell them you were riding hard, lie to them like they lie to us, they maximize their profits and you should too if you wanna play on a level field


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> A bike like the SX or SX trail falls under our category '5' , which states that the bicycle is made for more aggressive riding that includes jumping. That being said, we also must state that ANY bicycle will fail when pushed to too much of an extreme and this category 5 is not a license to 'try anything' on the bike. Ultimately, if the bike fails it is the call of the warranty representative as to whether or not it will be warrantied. If a warranty is denied and you are the original owner of the bike, then a crash replacement is ALWAYS an option.


Thank-you.
Next, can you elaborate on the warranty "Category System" I think we would all be interested in what the categories are and what the limitations are of each.

michael


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## [email protected] (Jul 22, 2010)

mykel said:


> Thank-you.
> Next, can you elaborate on the warranty "Category System" I think we would all be interested in what the categories are and what the limitations are of each.
> 
> michael


here is the link to the manual that addresses all of the categories: http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/OM0225USA_010_AppA_r2.pdf


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> here is the link to the manual that addresses all of the categories: http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/OM0225USA_010_AppA_r2.pdf


I was gonna post this for you :lol:

Levels
The preparations that take place under the five DEFCONs are difficult to describe because they vary between commands, they have changed over time as new weapon systems were deployed, and the precise details remain classified.[2] Additionally, during tests, exercises, or drills, the United States Department of Defense uses exercise terms when referring to the DEFCONs.[4] This is to preclude the possibility of confusing exercise commands with actual operational commands. The current exercise terms have been used since at least 1960, when they were used in a North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) exercise.

The five DEFCONs, their exercise terms, and their general descriptions are shown below.

Defense Condition Exercise Term Description Readiness 
DEFCON 5 FADE OUT Lowest state of readiness Normal readiness 
DEFCON 4 DOUBLE TAKE Increased intelligence watch and strengthened security measures 
DEFCON 3 ROUND HOUSE Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness 
DEFCON 2 FAST PACE Further increase in force readiness, but less than maximum readiness 
DEFCON 1 COCKED PISTOL War is highly likely Maximum readiness


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

> • CONDITION 5: Bikes designed for jumping, hucking, high speeds, or aggressive riding on rougher surfaces, or landing on flat surfaces. However, this type of riding is extremely hazardous and puts unpredictable forces on a bicycle which may overload the frame, fork, or parts. If you choose to ride in Condition 5 terrain, you should take appropriate safety precautions such as more frequent bike inspections and replacement of equipment. You should also wear comprehensive safety equipment such as a full-face helmet, pads, and body armor.
> • INTENDED: For riding that includes the most difficult terrain that only very skilled riders should attempt. Gravity, Freeride, and Downhill are terms which describe hardcore mountain, north shore, slopestyle. This is "extreme" riding and the terms describing it are constantly evolving.
> Gravity, Freeride, and Downhill bikes are: (1) heavier and have more suspension travel than All-Mountain bikes, allowing them to be ridden in more difficult terrain, over larger obstacles and larger jumps, (2) the longest in suspension travel and use components that fit heavy duty intended use. There is no guarantee that extreme riding will not break a Freeride bike.
> The terrain and type of riding that Freeride bikes are designed for is inherently dangerous. Appropriate equipment, such as a Freeride bike, does not change this reality. In this kind of riding, bad judgment, bad luck, or riding beyond your capabilities can easily result in an accident, where you could be seriously injured, paralyzed or killed.
> ...


So if warranty was voided due to this, I guess you can conclude that it's only a good idea to buy a Specialized category 5 bike if you want to kiss your shops a** enough to ensure they recommend warranty, since nothing in that mentions you can't jump.

Or then somebody misunderstood and thought the SX stands for CX and he was hucking with a cyclocross bike.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

listen, the bottom line is that they have to cover their ass. perhaps 99% of the time it is a non-issue, however, if they put no such conditions on a warranty then people will take advantage of it. at the end of the day, specialized has a choice to make; maybe sometimes it coincides with your opinions and maybe sometimes it doesn't. i'm willing to bet that not a single company enjoys giving away free product. it's their call. as it is with most companies and some may be more willing to side with the customer than others but that is their prerogative and you purchase a bike/frame knowing this BECAUSE IT'S WRITTEN IN THE WARRANTY.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

knutso said:


> I bet the frame costs 150 to make
> spec spends money on advertising, which sells bikes like it or not
> 
> they want to sell bikes so they manfacture them to look a certain way and weigh a relatively low amount, they want to sell bikes and that is why they pay pros to make'em look good and why they manufacture them to look light when a buyer compares frame weights
> ...


as i do not ride a specialized, i think credit is due to them. they sponser top riders because they can and thats the nature of the business but the great thing about them is their r&d, and the fact that they dump more money into it than ANY other company on the planet. a larger amount of there profits go into R&D then any large company does, unlike trek, which is owned by investors who receives most of the profits meaning less gets dumped back into to company and r&d. as much as people knock the company no other bike company comes close to their design and research. as well as the the fact that they do more for the biking community than any other company out there.

and clay are you stupid or something.


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

EDIT: Nevermind


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

eride1 said:


> and clay are you stupid or something.


:thumbsup:


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## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Your LBS has nothing to do with the warranty and why the hell would they? The manufacturer decides whether or not to warranty your item based on the info you give them. I have had to replace my fox dhx 5 a couple times and my shop straight up told me to deal directly with them.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Archi-Magus said:


> Your LBS has nothing to do with the warranty and why the hell would they? The manufacturer decides whether or not to warranty your item based on the info you give them. I have had to replace my fox dhx 5 a couple times and my shop straight up told me to deal directly with them.


Many manufacturers rely on their shop to make the call. Probably because shipping is so costly these days.


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## watkinscapital (Sep 14, 2010)

gticlay said:


> Many manufacturers rely on their shop to make the call. Probably because shipping is so costly these days.


You are correct.


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## madmark (Feb 14, 2008)

After reading this thread about this, I would have to say that the frame has had 4 years hard use and who knows how many crashes, I would have to say it has just reached the end of its life. You never know what off or crash may have caused the head tube to fail at a later date by weakening the frame. If the frame had a faulty weld or a fault this would have shown up with in the first few months of ownership judging by the amount of riding this guy does. 
Having seen a fair amount of frame failures over my 20 years of working in shops etc If I had the call it would be a crash replacement. I've not seen a cobra headtube sheer off like that, but I have seen a cracked headtube from a front impact which only was picked up by the dealer not the customer on a fork repair. As stated in nearly every user manual, if you crash fully inspect the bike for damage, no matter how minor. 
The extra 5mm will not make any differance as there is a 10mm limted either way, the warranty is aimed at people sticking far too much travel on the front which puts the wrong stress on the front end.
Thats my 2 cents.....


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

So i guess every Specialized warranty claim starts with.... "I was just riding along...."


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Wrong. Jets have a certain number of cycles they can withstand before parts have to be replaced or the entire thing is past it's service life. This is extended by simply "rebuilding" much of the structure, but it still has a finite life. Aloha Airlines learned this the hard way when a 737 fuselage failed in flight, sucking out a flight attendant and anything else that was loose (no passengers died). The particular aircraft had been taken beyond it's intended service life in terms of pressurization cycles, although at the time it's airframe-hours were relatively low because it was only used to make short hops in between islands.
> .


Not entirely correct.

_Investigation by the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded that the accident was caused by metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion (the plane operated in a coastal environment, with exposure to salt and humidity).[5][6] The root cause of the problem was failure of an epoxy adhesive used to bond the aluminum sheets of the fuselage together when the B737 was manufactured. Water was able to enter the gap where the epoxy failed to bond the two surfaces together properly, and started the corrosion process. The age of the aircraft became a key issue (it was 19 years old at the time of the accident and had sustained a remarkable number of takeoff-landing cycles - 89,090, the second most cycles for a plane in the world at the time - well beyond the 75,000 trips it was designed to sustain). Aircraft now receive additional maintenance checks as they age. However, several other aircraft operating under similar environments did not exhibit the same phenomenon. _


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## madmark (Feb 14, 2008)

STT GUY said:


> So i guess every Specialized warranty claim starts with.... "I was just riding along...."


More like every bike or part warranty claim.....


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Are we reading the same thing STT? It clearly says the problem was caused by metal fatigue, exacerbated by corrosion. It also says they used the plane longer than the number of safe trips it was designed for. They ran it way past the safe number of trips and it broke. Would it have broke if the epoxy had not failed? We don't know. Would that life have been saved if they took the plane out of service at the 75,000 trip mark? YES.



STT GUY said:


> Not entirely correct.
> 
> _Investigation by the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concluded that the accident was caused by metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion (the plane operated in a coastal environment, with exposure to salt and humidity).[5][6] The root cause of the problem was failure of an epoxy adhesive used to bond the aluminum sheets of the fuselage together when the B737 was manufactured. Water was able to enter the gap where the epoxy failed to bond the two surfaces together properly, and started the corrosion process. The age of the aircraft became a key issue (it was 19 years old at the time of the accident and had sustained a remarkable number of takeoff-landing cycles - 89,090, the second most cycles for a plane in the world at the time - well beyond the 75,000 trips it was designed to sustain). Aircraft now receive additional maintenance checks as they age. However, several other aircraft operating under similar environments did not exhibit the same phenomenon. _


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