# Disc Brake Problems



## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all,

Well I am officially fed up with my new Trek's brakes. Please see the message I sent the Trek's customer service via online submission. I'm beginning to think that my brake pads were never really the problem, just that the type of disc brakes I have (promax) suck. I am open to any suggestion to getting this taken care of. AND PLEASE, SPARE ME THE WHOLE YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR. That is complete BS in regards my particular case. A bike from Trek should be able to lock up (brakes). I only weigh 165 for crying out loud. Thank you all in advance for your suggestions.


Hello Trek,

I bought my Trek 3900 Disc 2010 about one month ago from ******* Bike Shop in ********, CA. Ever since then, I have had problems with my disc brakes. The stopping power on the front & back of the bike is unacceptable considering it is coming from Trek. The first time I took the bike out, the brakes would not lock up. I figured that this was simply the brake pads needing to be bedded. However, after a number of other rides, they did not improve. I was told that I had gotten lube/oil on the brake pads and that I would need new ones. Therefore, I cleaned the rotors and cleaned the calipers. That only helped the back brakes a little bit. At least now they would lock up. However, the front brakes were a different story. I then purchased a set of brake pads for my front disc brakes at the cost of $17.99, because ******** Bike Shop recommended I do so. I installed those on the front disc brakes, but it did not fix the problem. The staff at ******** checked that the brakes were adjusted correctly and even rode the bike and tested the front brakes. They were shocked at the poor stopping power of the front brakes (and even the back brakes to a smaller extent). I spoke with the Manager, *****, and he told me that the problem is to be expected from a "under $600.00 bike. However, when I asked him to get one of the specialized bikes that was around the same price as my Trek, the brakes on the Specialized worked AMAZING. I did not appreciate how the manager, *****, made me feel that it was because I purchased a low-end bike. He said he would start the warranty claim process with Trek. In conclusion, I am very disappointed with my purchase. I have spent $20.00 buying one set of disc brake pads (which I likely never really needed). I have also spent much time driving back & forth from my home to the bike shop trying to get the issue resolved. I have not been able to enjoy my bike riding experience. I feel as if the bike shop was not honest in telling me that the real reason the brakes were not functioning correctly was due to the poor quality of the brake components. They have admitted that the current brakes on the bike do not provide adequate stopping power and I wonder why I was not warned before I purchased the bike. I bought a Trek bike from an authorized dealer for a reason: To buy a good quality bike. I would appreciate if Trek would help me become happy with my purchase because I am starting to regret it. My phone number is *****************************


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## DriveByBikeShooting (Mar 13, 2009)

so your justification of power is the ability to 'lock up' you wheel? did you go over a cliff because your braking p0wer was not good enough?

you are asking for suggestions? im not sure what this whole rant is about...


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

DriveByBikeShooting said:


> so your justification of power is the ability to 'lock up' you wheel? did you go over a cliff because your braking p0wer was not good enough?
> 
> you are asking for suggestions? im not sure what this whole rant is about...


What are you asking, driveby?

Yes, I want my brand new disc brakes to lock up the wheel with me on it just like a specialized bike around the same price would.

Yes, I am asking for a suggestion as to how to get brakes that work properly!!!


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## bRyAZSig228 (Jan 25, 2010)

just wondering if the shop had another 3900 that you or they can try to see if it does the same thing as your bike. maybe it was just the brakes on your bike that were defective.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

bRyAZSig228 said:


> just wondering if the shop had another 3900 that you or they can try to see if it does the same thing as your bike. maybe it was just the brakes on your bike that were defective.


funny you mention that. i went to another bike shop that had some of the exact bikes in. those brakes sucked to. Actually, the manager of that shop said that he was irritated at Trek for providing such shitty brakes.


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## shooter26 (Feb 12, 2010)

Must be a bad batch, my TREK 8500 brakes are biting real good.


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

It could be expectations. 

You mentioned you hit the brakes on a Specialized in the same shop and was able to brake just fine? You didn't mention if those were also Promax mechanical discs. You very well could've grabbed a Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc with the Avid BB5 mechanical discs. That's a very important distinction. Avid mechanical disc brakes are considered some of the best on the market... whereas Promax, not so much.

Yes, you get what you pay for. Promax mechanical disc brakes are just about the chintziest, cheapest mechanical disc brakes you can buy. To be honest, linear pull v-brakes at that pricepoint are going to be a better buy. Promax does make decent hydraulic disc brakes though.

How to adjust for best bite for what you have? I'm guessing those Promax calipers only have one moving piston. I'd adjust the caliper position on your fork so that the pad that doesn't move is as close to the disc as possible without rubbing. Also, you may want to check your brake levers to see if they're adjustable from a ramped-pull (old style) to linear-pull (new style). The difference is the amount of cable that moves when you pull on the lever. The Promax discs may require one over the other to operate correctly, and depending on the levers, yours may be set incorrectly.

Shooter: Your 8500 is also a $2000+ MSRP bike, with hydraulic discs. 

EDIT: I took a look at ProMax's site; if you have the DSK-720 model mech disc calipers, you don't have to adjust the whole caliper, you can adjust the inboard brake pad using a knob.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Pro max disk brakes are the absolutly worst disks on the market! Stopping power is marginal at best! May actually be unsafe in certan circumstances. I'd bite the bullet and get a set of BB7s and you should have some good stoppers! Sorry about your Wally world brakes!


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## timberstone (Feb 20, 2009)

shooter26 said:


> Must be a bad batch, my TREK 8500 brakes are biting real good.


The brakes on your 8500 are totally different then those on the 3 series. They are even different then the BB5's I have on my 6000.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

ae111black said:


> Pro max disk brakes are the absolutly worst disks on the market! Stopping power is marginal at best! May actually be unsafe in certan circumstances. I'd bite the bullet and get a set of BB7s and you should have some good stoppers! Sorry about your Wally world brakes!


LOL!!! And to think...I was buying at a LBS to avoid the Wally world, Target, Costco, cheap components. Complete and utter BS!

I actually going to push until the brakes work the way they were advertised to work. when I bought the bike, I told the salesman EXACTLY what I wanted to do with it. He talked up and down about how good the 3900 disc brakes would be over V-brakes and how they would be more reliable. How am I, a beginner, supposed to walk into a bike shop knowing that he is telling me a load of BS? Its also complete BS that store manager said he would get the warranty involved and that he HOPED that Trek would send better brakes and not the same ones. He even admitted that if they sent the same ones, I would likely have the same problem! Well, I talked to the manager, wrote Trek, and contacted American Express. You guys should see the riding I do....nothing extreme....just light-medium trail riding. Dude! The way this thing stops...I wouldn't feel comfortable riding it through the streets of San Diego. Garbage truck....ohhhh **** I can't stop! WHAM!!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Throw a set of BB7"s on it and be done with it .


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## GrayBeard Pirate (Dec 26, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> LOL!!! And to think...I was buying at a LBS to avoid the Wally world, Target, Costco, cheap components. Complete and utter BS!
> 
> I actually going to push until the brakes work the way they were advertised to work. when I bought the bike, I told the salesman EXACTLY what I wanted to do with it. He talked up and down about how good the 3900 disc brakes would be over V-brakes and how they would be more reliable. How am I, a beginner, supposed to walk into a bike shop knowing that he is telling me a load of BS? Its also complete BS that store manager said he would get the warranty involved and that he HOPED that Trek would send better brakes and not the same ones. He even admitted that if they sent the same ones, I would likely have the same problem! Well, I talked to the manager, wrote Trek, and contacted American Express. You guys should see the riding I do....nothing extreme....just light-medium trail riding. Dude! The way this thing stops...I wouldn't feel comfortable riding it through the streets of San Diego. Garbage truck....ohhhh **** I can't stop! WHAM!!


You bought a bike looking for brakes better than V-brakes, but didn't spend a bunch of money for top of the line stuff. I imagine you got what you asked for, but you are just not happy with it. I would just buy some higher quality brakes and be done with it if I were you.

Put it this way, I just bought a new bike and it came with Tektro Hydro brakes. I do not expect them to work like Elixirs. I expect them to act like low level Hydro brakes, and when I am ready to upgrade to something better...I will.


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## timberstone (Feb 20, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> LOL!!! And to think...I was buying at a LBS to avoid the Wally world, Target, Costco, cheap components. Complete and utter BS!
> 
> I actually going to push until the brakes work the way they were advertised to work. when I bought the bike, I told the salesman EXACTLY what I wanted to do with it. He talked up and down about how good the 3900 disc brakes would be over V-brakes and how they would be more reliable. How am I, a beginner, supposed to walk into a bike shop knowing that he is telling me a load of BS? Its also complete BS that store manager said he would get the warranty involved and that he HOPED that Trek would send better brakes and not the same ones. He even admitted that if they sent the same ones, I would likely have the same problem! Well, I talked to the manager, wrote Trek, and contacted American Express. You guys should see the riding I do....nothing extreme....just light-medium trail riding. Dude! The way this thing stops...I wouldn't feel comfortable riding it through the streets of San Diego. Garbage truck....ohhhh **** I can't stop! WHAM!!


To me it sounds like your complaint is with the sales rep at the bike store so not sure why this would be Treks fault. I'm also not sure why you want to be able to lock up the brakes. I have close to a thousand miles on my bike and never locked them up once. Do the brakes you have now stop quickly without locking up? Keep in mind cars went to ABS so the tires don't lock up. You keep control and less stopping distance.

I agree with others though. I would take it up with the bike store or buy some BB7's and just install them.


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## superflychief (Sep 23, 2009)

Umm did you not take the bike for a test ride and feel that the brakes were crap? Sounds to me like you have steak tastes on a hot dog budget. What did you want the sales guy to tell you when you are testing a 600 dollar bike. Ofcourse he'll tell you the brakes are good. They are good for a cheap bike. To me it's buyer beware. You bought a bike either without testing the brakes or not knowing any better. Sounds to me like you made a mistake.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

This is the LBS's responsibility as well as the manufacturer's. All brakes, even V-brakes should be able to lock up and skid the tires or endo at full grip. If the brakes don't lock up, that's a bad design or faulty brakes.

If a customer comes back and says that the brakes aren't working properly, the LBS can't say "Oh, that's because they're cheap brakes..."

WTF.

If the bike was purchased recently, the LBS should do their best to help the customer with a solution...whether it's trying to resolve the issue with the manufacturer or offering a trade in for the brakeset or even offering an exchange for the bike if it's still in the condition that was delivered in.


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

I did offer some suggestions on making it stop better. Ignoring it and concentrating on whining won't do you much good.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

timberstone said:


> To me it sounds like your complaint is with the sales rep at the bike store so not sure why this would be Treks fault. I'm also not sure why you want to be able to lock up the brakes. I have close to a thousand miles on my bike and never locked them up once. Do the brakes you have now stop quickly without locking up? Keep in mind cars went to ABS so the tires don't lock up. You keep control and less stopping distance.
> 
> I agree with others though. I would take it up with the bike store or buy some BB7's and just install them.


Ok. First off, I am coming from a business standpoint. Second, no the brakes do not stop quickly without locking up. I have had a number of techs and the manager at the store ride the bike and they have all agreed that the brakes are adjusted correctly but the brakes have crappy stopping power. My issue with Trek is that they are putting a disc brake system on the 3900 that isnt even good enough to ride down a street with traffic.

I am not going to purchase bb7s at my expense guys. The brakes should work. I guess I am viewing the issue from the standpoint of good, ethical business. I think some of the guys here are maybe Bike Shop employees or owners.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

superflychief said:


> Umm did you not take the bike for a test ride and feel that the brakes were crap? Sounds to me like you have steak tastes on a hot dog budget. What did you want the sales guy to tell you when you are testing a 600 dollar bike. Ofcourse he'll tell you the brakes are good. They are good for a cheap bike. To me it's buyer beware. You bought a bike either without testing the brakes or not knowing any better. Sounds to me like you made a mistake.


You are making a lot of assumptions here superfly.

First off: I did test the bike. The brakes were the same way they are now but the salesman told me that it would take a couple rides to break in the brakes...and THEN they would stop excellent.

You obviously have zero business sense. Take that coming from a business school grad with years of experience in the hospitality industry.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

captainjoon said:


> This is the LBS's responsibility as well as the manufacturer's. All brakes, even V-brakes should be able to lock up and skid the tires or endo at full grip. If the brakes don't lock up, that's a bad design or faulty brakes.
> 
> If a customer comes back and says that the brakes aren't working properly, the LBS can't say "Oh, that's because they're cheap brakes..."
> 
> ...


EXACTLY!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

I worked on a bike last summer having Promax brakes. Those brakes were so terrible, I almost couldn't bring myself to put them back on the bike. They don't really stop you. They just sorta slow you down, sort of. I came awfully close to buying the kid whose bike I was rebuilding a set of BB5s from my own pocket. Yes, those Promax brakes were really that bad.

OP, can you afford to spend maybe $70? If so, then go on eBay and grab a set of Avid BB5s. Here's a link to a pair:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-2010-Avid-B...ccessories?hash=item4a9ef72ac3#ht_5259wt_1050

You might be able to get a set cheaper, especially if you watch for a used set. People often sell off their old BB5s when upgrading.

Don't even waste your time on those Promax brakes. Just toss 'em.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

oceanfirehawk said:


> LOL!!! And to think...I was buying at a LBS to avoid the Wally world, Target, Costco, cheap components. Complete and utter BS!


The fact that you bought the absolute bottom of the barrel bike @ a LBS is your own fault.... some research should have been done on your part on the spec's of the bike you got.... just because it was purchased @ an LBS doesn't mean the parts on it would not be sub-par. the reason Trek put those on that price point bike is that their are CHEAP! bottom line!!! It would be like ford selling a mustang with the brakes of an escort on them, SURE they will stop the car but they were alot "cheaper to spec out" on the car. Same goes for Trek. That's Why IMHO avoid the really lower end bikes spec ed out with what looks like "higher end" components! The manufacturer has to skimp somewhere to give the bike that price. Better to do it right the first time, Saves money in the long run!! As for getting them to work correctly....HUH Good luck! Sure fire way to PISS OFF the guy's @ your LBS!!!

+1 on My and AZMountans advice.... Bite the bullet and get the bb7's yourself. LESSON LEARNED!


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Seems like if the LBS knew the brakes performed poorly new but would improve with usage and they have verified the brakes are still performing poorly, then a good LBS would sell you a set of BB5s at cost or significant discount and install them for you.

I have BB5s on my 29-er and they work quite well; especially for its price.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

ae111black said:


> The fact that you bought the absolute bottom of the barrel bike @ a LBS is your own fault.... some research should have been done on your part on the spec's of the bike you got.... just because it was purchased @ an LBS doesn't mean the parts on it would not be sub-par.


I'm not so sure that I agree. How many times on these forums do we refer posters to an LBS specifically because we want them to buy a bike that is up to par? If a bike shop sells sub-par material, or provides no guidance to help purchasers avoid sub-par models, then where's the advantage of a bike shop over the discount store?

Sadly, as the dropping dollar makes imported bike parts ever more expensive, I'm seeing increasingly low end and disappointing parts on bike-shop bikes. Companies like Trek are probably between a rock and a hard place. They are under pressure to hit price-points that are increasingly difficult to hit with good parts.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

FWIW, on a $600 bike, I DO expect the brakes to be powerful enough for all but long downhill riding.


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## superflychief (Sep 23, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions here superfly.
> 
> First off: I did test the bike. The brakes were the same way they are now but the salesman told me that it would take a couple rides to break in the brakes...and THEN they would stop excellent.
> 
> You obviously have zero business sense. Take that coming from a business school grad with years of experience in the hospitality industry.


ha ha ha what the hell does business sense have to do with anything? It doesn't take a couple of rides to bed in new brakes. I can get a set up to 100% stopping power in a few minutes. If they aren't grabbing hard after a couple of min. then they are junk. Would you buy a car off the showroom floor that didn't stop well and the sales guy said, oh it will stop better after a few hundred km's. Just keep it under 50. ha ha ha Don't be angry with me that you bought a cheap bike.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

oceanfirehawk said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions here superfly.
> 
> First off: I did test the bike. The brakes were the same way they are now but the salesman told me that it would take a couple rides to break in the brakes...and THEN they would stop excellent.
> 
> You obviously have zero business sense. Take that coming from a business school grad with years of experience in the hospitality industry.


Maybe you should have tested several bikes before you bought this one. And, by comparison, if this one's brakes were not good enough for you............then you should have addressed the problem with the LBS or just bought something else. Making sure everything feels right is the reason we should try to test ride before we buy.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

traffic002 said:


> Seems like if the LBS knew the brakes performed poorly new but would improve with usage and they have verified the brakes are still performing poorly, then a good LBS would sell you a set of BB5s at cost or significant discount and install them for you.
> 
> I have BB5s on my 29-er and they work quite well; especially for its price.


I would love if they did that for me. However, last night they did not offer that as an option. They pretty much said thats the way the brakes are and we will try to file with trek's warranty.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

oceanfirehawk said:


> I would love if they did that for me. However, last night they did not offer that as an option. They pretty much said thats the way the brakes are and we will try to file with trek's warranty.


To keep you riding without feeling like you'll slam into a tree because you couldn't slow down, I'd ask if they would do that for you. Or at least for the front brakes. Heck, see what stuff they've got lying around to piece together a set of brakes that actually work.

This would be the reason I go to an LBS rather than buying online. Basically if you're not satisfied, then they should work with you to help you get there and enjoy riding. If you enjoy riding, you'll wear stuff out then you'll come back for service and parts. That's how the game works.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

JonathanGennick said:


> I'm not so sure that I agree. How many times on these forums do we refer posters to an LBS specifically because we want them to buy a bike that is up to par? If a bike shop sells sub-par material, or provides no guidance to help purchasers avoid sub-par models, then where's the advantage of a bike shop over the discount store?
> 
> Sadly, as the dropping dollar makes imported bike parts ever more expensive, I'm seeing increasingly low end and disappointing parts on bike-shop bikes. Companies like Trek are probably between a rock and a hard place. They are under pressure to hit price-points that are increasingly difficult to hit with good parts.


"then where's the advantage of a bike shop over the discount store"

The bike is assembled safely and professionally by a bike mechanic. Things torqued properly, Threads greased, Put together properly.

"I'm seeing increasingly low end and disappointing parts on bike-shop bikes."

You would be surprised if you walk into most LBS's and look @ some of the lower end Comfort bikes or even the Kid's bikes. Their not much different than what you would find @ Dept Store's higher end, component wise.

The bike company's have been doing this for years. It's nothing new. The lower end stuff you get what you pay for. they have to cut cost's somewhere.


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## Crankenator (Mar 27, 2007)

Ok....I think you're correct in being unhappy with the brakes, but it also seems that your expectations are a bit out of line. You should not expect, factually speaking, your brakes to lock up (at least not on an entry level disc brake). Brakes, from the manufacturing standpoint, are intended to bring you safely to a stop. They do that, don't they? Just not as quickly or abruptly as you thought they should? If you expect a bottom-end ride using mostly bottom-end components to perform the same as higher-quality and higher-performing products in the marketplace, then you're just wrong. You'll have to spend a little more cash to get some of those benefits. Yes, good brakes are very nice to use and we've all grown accustomed to much better braking than what bike riders have ever known before....but you're buying bottom-end stuff here. 

That said, you should have some recourse via Trek or the bike shop to simply return the bike and then go buy another. Or, like several people said above, just pick up another brake or set of brakes. Personally, the rear brake isn't as important, so I'd just get a BB7 front brake either used for cheap, or look online and you can find them from $35 to $45. Another option might be to try some compressionless housing for your front brake...cheap and quick fix that might really improve it a lot. 

You might get lucky and get Trek to give you some better brakes, but most likely your best option will be to return the bike and buy another. The shop isn't responsible for this....it's Trek's issue for spec'ing a cruddy brake. If you misunderstood, as a newbie, or if the shop misinformed you, then they should be willing to help you as best they can provided you haven't pissed them off by now, but don't expect anything for free. 

I don't think you're viewing this from a business standpoint.....sounds more like an angry consumer standpoint to me. Return it or buy a front brake of decent quality, dude. Or hell, v-brakes are still great except in wet weather.....exchange it for the v-brake model and get a small refund in price. Your choice but damn, chill out a little.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Maybe you should have tested several bikes before you bought this one. And, by comparison, if this one's brakes were not good enough for you............then you should have addressed the problem with the LBS or just bought something else. Making sure everything feels right is the reason we should try to test ride before we buy.


Dude! The salesman lied! LOL


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

I am calling bullshiite , this is the same bike that you sprayed lubricant on the brakes , you stated as such in a thread that you started . I suggest that you owe everyone here an appology as well as a retraction of ALL of your bogus claims .

Quoted 
"I made a real newb mistake. My disc brakes were not stopping and then I realized I had been shooting lube into the disc brakes and all over other brake components. How do I dry the lube up so I can stop!"


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Jenson has BB7's on for $45 bucks, I don't know what Promax go for....

Ask the LBS how much they would charge to upgrade to BB7s....

Labour should be free, promax gotta cost oh say $30 bucks each....

So maybe pay $60 bucks for the upgrade and get the hell out of jail?????


Where you sit now you are going to have to negoitcate.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

FWIW , there are only four Trek dealers within a 25 mile radius of Temecula , I wont find it very hard to find the one you are trying to defraud .


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## Crankenator (Mar 27, 2007)

Ouch....dude, if you lubed your brakes accidentally, then what you need to do is buy new pads and scrub the rotor and caliper clean. Get some Ajax powder and a stiff brush and make a paste...scrub the rotors twice on both sides and let them dry. Clean the caliper with solvent as best you can, then bed in the new pads. 

I know it's possible that Promax put out a faulty brake, but in my experience every one of the low end brakes (no matter what design they are) have filled their intended purpose. If they put a faulty one out there, then there will be a recall. They've all brought the bike to a stop...some are just better than others. If it was just that you mistakenly got oil on them, make it right and ride happy.


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

Whoa. If you got oil on em...then it's no responsibility of your LBS or manufacturer.


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## pewpewpew (Oct 25, 2009)

between the amount of times the OP said BS and LBS i cant understand whats going on....


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> I am calling bullshiite , this is the same bike that you sprayed lubricant on the brakes , you stated as such in a thread that you started . I suggest that you owe everyone here an appology as well as a retraction of ALL of your bogus claims .
> 
> Quoted
> "I made a real newb mistake. My disc brakes were not stopping and then I realized I had been shooting lube into the disc brakes and all over other brake components. How do I dry the lube up so I can stop!"


Nice, I did remember reading that thread but I didn't realize it was the same poster.

BUSTED.

Bite the bullet buddy, you screwed your own brakes up.. don't be blaming Trek or your LBS. That's like buying a car, crashing it while drunk, and blaming your dealer+manufacturer for it.


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## bRyAZSig228 (Jan 25, 2010)

can't you just try to exchange it with the specialized you tried since the sales guy told you the brakes will be fine after a few rides and the bike is fairly new? how old is the bike btw? I say partly it's the lbs fault here, cuz they should have known that the bike has a shitty brakes. trek put those brakes on that bike for a reason and that is because it's an entry level bike and if you want a better braking power go with their better bikes.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Crankenator said:


> Ouch....dude, if you lubed your brakes accidentally, then what you need to do is buy new pads and scrub the rotor and caliper clean. Get some Ajax powder and a stiff brush and make a paste...scrub the rotors twice on both sides and let them dry. Clean the caliper with solvent as best you can, then bed in the new pads.
> 
> I know it's possible that Promax put out a faulty brake, but in my experience every one of the low end brakes (no matter what design they are) have filled their intended purpose. If they put a faulty one out there, then there will be a recall. They've all brought the bike to a stop...some are just better than others. If it was just that you mistakenly got oil on them, make it right and ride happy.


Dude!! WTF!! OP-GET A LIFE!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

bRyAZSig228 said:


> can't you just try to exchange it with the specialized you tried since the sales guy told you the brakes will be fine after a few rides and the bike is fairly new? how old is the bike btw? I say partly it's the lbs fault here, cuz they should have known that the bike has a shitty brakes. trek put those brakes on that bike for a reason and that is because it's an entry level bike and if you want a better braking power go with their better bikes.


Dude , read the thread " Big newb mistake disc brakes " its on this page , this guy sprayed lubricant on his brakes and is now trying to scam the LBS and Trek .


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## bRyAZSig228 (Jan 25, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Dude , read the thread " Big newb mistake disc brakes " its on this page , this guy sprayed lubricant on his brakes and is now trying to scam the LBS and Trek .


didn't the op replaced the pads and cleaned the brakes? i know the op made a lot of mistakes like accidentally (i hope) spraying lube on the brakes(both?), not researching bout the bike he bought, but still the lbs should at least help him right?


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## GrayBeard Pirate (Dec 26, 2009)

ae111black said:


> Dude!! WTF!! OP-GET A LIFE!


He has now started 3 threads on this crap. :madman:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

bRyAZSig228 said:


> didn't the op replaced the pads and cleaned the brakes? i know the op made a lot of mistakes like accidentally (i hope) spraying lube on the brakes(both?), not researching bout the bike he bought, but still the lbs should at least help him right?


The truth is , no one knows if hes telling the truth about the LBS , hes lying about so much you have to assume that its all a lie . All except the part about douching the brakes with lubricant .


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## jonbobcar (Mar 11, 2010)

bRyAZSig228 said:


> didn't the op replaced the pads and cleaned the brakes? i know the op made a lot of mistakes like accidentally (i hope) spraying lube on the brakes(both?), not researching bout the bike he bought, but still the lbs should at least help him right?


I'm sure they would be happy to help him if he went in there the first time and told them the mistake that he had made. Instead he went there and told them that THEY had made the mistake and they were trying to help him deal with "faulty" brakes.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

highdelll said:


> ............................................________
> ....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
> .............................,.-"..................................."-.,
> .........................,/...............................................":,
> ...


Awesome!:thumbsup:


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

AZ.MTNS said:


> The truth is , no one knows if hes telling the truth about the LBS , hes lying about so much you have to assume that its all a lie . All except the part about douching the brakes with lubricant .


I am pretty sure that you need to be a detective, this is like the 5th person I have seen you bust on here and I have only been paying attention for a few months. :thumbsup: your the man AZ!


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

vaelin said:


> Nice, I did remember reading that thread but I didn't realize it was the same poster.
> 
> BUSTED.
> 
> Bite the bullet buddy, you screwed your own brakes up.. don't be blaming Trek or your LBS. That's like buying a car, crashing it while drunk, and blaming your dealer+manufacturer for it.


OMG!!! A number of you guys are truly NOT paying attention. I will break it down for you:

1) I was speaking very "off the cuff". I _really _ wasn't "shooting" lube DIRECTLY into the calipers & pads. I was overemphasizing to show what a newb mistake it was. I was under the impression that the REAL problem was that lube/oil SOMEHOW got into the system. I got this "wonderful" (sarcastic) advice from my LBS mechanic.

2) You bringing this point up shows that you are not paying attention to what I am posting. The calipers and rotors have been cleaned with alcohol thoroughly and the pads are brand new. The LBS manager even saw for himself that everything was adjusted properly, just that the disc brakes suck. Maybe you should actually READ what I have posted. How the hell am I trying to SCAM my LBS? LOL. This is so stupid its hilarious.

3) The salesman told me something not true. I tried the brakes out while I was there and asked why they were not strong. He said they just needed to be bedded in. Now that I have replaced/cleaned everything, and bought new pads.....they tell me that its just that the disc brake is just not any good.

Most of you have been very nice but there have been a lot of know-it-alls and persons whom simply spit out whatever comes into their heads. Thank you for the nice peeps help, but I am going to find another forum. The moderators obviously are not keeping out the riff raff. I still can't believe there are people accusing me of trying to scam the bike store. LOL.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

oceanfirehawk said:


> .
> The salesman told me something not true. I tried the brakes out while I was there and asked why they were not strong. He said they just needed to be bedded in. Now that I have replaced/cleaned everything, and bought new pads.....they tell me that its just that the disc brake is just not any good.
> 
> I am going to find another forum.riff raff LOL.


YES. The sales man was speaking the truth. I don't care what brand brake you are putting on the bike THE PADS NEED TO BE BEDDED IN!! It's even true with the disk brakes in cars and trucks. Once the pads bed in the power and modulation will go up. 
The fact that your brakes suck and always will is irrelevant at this point.

Have fun over on _*PINKBIKE!*_


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> I was overemphasizing


I wasent , after your LBS reads all three of these three of these threads I'm sure you guys can get together and sort it out . :thumbsup:


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Casino Bicycles
43906 State Highway 74
Hemet California
800-851-7433
www.casinobicycles.com
More Information >

Trek Store of San Diego
2123 Industrial Court
Vista California
760-599-9735
www.treksandiego.com
More Information >

Cyco-Path
29760 Rancho Californa Rd #107
Temecula California
951-695-4823
More Information >

Jax Bicycle Center-Murrieta
26612 Margarita Road
Murrieta California
951-239-8239
www.jaxbicycles.com
More Information >  One of these is likely the shop he is dealing with , any Temecula locals ?


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> I wasent , after your LBS reads all three of these three of these threads I'm sure you guys can get together and sort it out . :thumbsup:


By all means.....go ahead AZ.MTNS. Everything I have put up here the business already knows. LOL. I just can't stop laughing at how ridiculous this is.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

jonbobcar said:


> I'm sure they would be happy to help him if he went in there the first time and told them the mistake that he had made. Instead he went there and told them that THEY had made the mistake and they were trying to help him deal with "faulty" brakes.


Another poster who has obviously not read my posts on this subject. You are talking out of complete and utter ignorance.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Meh , we shall see . I'm sure you will enjoy your short stay here .


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Casino Bicycles
> 43906 State Highway 74
> Hemet California
> 800-851-7433
> ...


LOL! This is comedy! You reeeeeaaaalllly need to get rid of all that spare time. I'm not even going to insult you. I'm just saying, if you have this amount of extra time.....send me some.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> LOL! This is comedy! You reeeeeaaaalllly need to get rid of all that spare time. I'm not even going to insult you. I'm just saying, if you have this amount of extra time.....send me some.


Anything to help you out . It only takes a second or two . :thumbsup:


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Anything to help you out . It only takes a second or two . :thumbsup:


Have fun then. I will let you focus on your project...LOL.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

AZ needs to step away from his keyboard for more than 15 mins a day (excluding bathroom breaks)


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> AZ needs to step away from his keyboard for more than 15 mins a day (excluding bathroom breaks)


I second that recommendation. All I can say is "control issues".


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> I second that recommendation. All I can say is "control issues".


Why , because I called you out on your idiotic attempt to defraud ?


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Why , because I called you out on your idiotic attempt to defraud ?


Dude, actually READ my posts!!!!!! You are coming to a conclusion without all the information. And, I think you are hurting your image on this forum. The LBS knows everything I have posted here! Everything!


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> Most of you have been very nice but there have been a lot of know-it-alls and persons whom simply spit out whatever comes into their heads. Thank you for the nice peeps help, but I am going to find another forum. The moderators obviously are not keeping out the riff raff. I still can't believe there are people accusing me of trying to scam the bike store. LOL.


Pot calling the kettle black buddy.

I was the only one who gave you instructions on what you COULD do yourself to the brakes in this thread without "replace them."

You chose to ignore it, then you only read the part where I thought that if you were the one who screwed up the brakes, you should take responsibility.

Boohoo, "this forum suxx0rs because I'm being picked on." Welcome to the Internet.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> Dude, actually READ my posts!!!!!! You are coming to a conclusion without all the information. And, I think you are hurting your image on this forum. The LBS knows everything I have posted here! Everything!


You should read all the posts , in all of the threads you started about this . I posted several times about how to fix your issues , I believe I have all the info . As far as my image , if it goes to shiite over calling out a scammer so be it . Integrety means so much more than image , but I'm sure that concept is lost to you .


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## jarHunter (Mar 20, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> And, I think you are hurting your image on this forum.


Really? Dont know too many people who are too concerned with their online "image"


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

your comparing a pinto to a corvette. if the bike shop told you they were good brakes, then dont go to that bike shop anymore. Take it as a lesson learned and stay away from anything that says promax on it. Buy some bb5 or even better, some bb7's. There is nothing that you can do to make the promax brakes work any better then they do with new pads and a clean rotor. I agree that trek should at least put tektro brakes on there bikes (and that is still a crappy brake but will atleast stop you). Sorry your LBS salesman lied to you.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

A little off topic, but I was actually fixing my 10 year old Promax V-brakes. I couldn't believe they lasted this long. I'm thinking of switching to single digit 7s.


----------



## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

jarHunter said:


> Really? Dont know too many people who are too concerned with their online "image"


AZ gives some of the best advice on this forum. He does tend to give the response of "spend money" a little more often then needed and likes to get on dremer which is funny most of the time but every once in a while uncalled for. Overall though, listening to his advice will save some headaches. This time he is right for sure, Go spend some money and upgrade.


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

I have some really old promax V's as well that i have just laying around in case I ever want to go back to them. They actually worked pretty well for the few years I used them. I guess promax does make one good product.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

lulz...

here is a bunny with a pancake on its head..









now...OP....stop being a spaz and upgrade your brakes...or get used to them.....


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mmmmm, pancakes


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

mmmmm, bunny


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## chetos (Feb 3, 2010)

I wonder why Trek would put crappy disc brakes on? why not put v brakes? Anyway, I upgraded to bb7's and I am very happy with them. I did see the other post about getting lube on the brakes. Makes this whole issue very interesting. When I installed my bb7's they grabbed immediately. 

go with the bb7's or bb5's.


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## davidbeinct (Dec 6, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> I am calling bullshiite , this is the same bike that you sprayed lubricant on the brakes , you stated as such in a thread that you started . I suggest that you owe everyone here an appology as well as a retraction of ALL of your bogus claims .
> 
> Quoted
> "I made a real newb mistake. My disc brakes were not stopping and then I realized I had been shooting lube into the disc brakes and all over other brake components. How do I dry the lube up so I can stop!"


Uhm... AZ dude, I hate to say it, but you might have had a hand in creating this monster:



AZ.MTNS said:


> I would do some shopping around if I were you , it should be pretty easy to better that price . *If you can do your own maint. I would save the money on the service plan *.


Just sayin'... 

David B.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

davidbeinct said:


> Uhm... AZ dude, I hate to say it, but you might have had a hand in creating this monster:
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> David B.


The key word being " if " . Respectfully , nobody twisted his arm to forego anything , just as nobody provoked him to deception , fradulant claims etc. Then to put the icing on the cake , post here bashing a respected company , trying to pass off his assinine mistakes to someone else .


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

captainjoon said:


> mmmmm, bunny


+1

here's a pic of a real bike for you to refrence


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## davidbeinct (Dec 6, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> The key word being " if " . Respectfully , nobody twisted his arm to forego anything , just as nobody provoked him to deception , fradulant claims etc. Then to put the icing on the cake , post here bashing a respected company , trying to pass off his assinine mistakes to someone else .


Dude, chill, I'm totally busting your chops. I just found it funny that following this twisted bunch of threads it turns out some very reasonable advice, followed by a nincompoop, resulted in all this mess.

Such are the interwebs...

David B.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

davidbeinct said:


> Dude, chill, I'm totally busting your chops. I just found it funny that following this twisted bunch of threads it turns out some very reasonable advice, followed by a nincompoop, resulted in all this mess.
> 
> Such are the interwebs...
> 
> David B.


No prob. here , always value your input .  :thumbsup:


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> The key word being " if " . Respectfully , nobody twisted his arm to forego anything , just as nobody provoked him to deception , fradulant claims etc. Then to put the icing on the cake , post here bashing a respected company , trying to pass off his assinine mistakes to someone else .


AZ.MTNS,

You just don't get it. I take full responsibility for the lubricant thing.

What I dont take responsibility for is the fact that the stock brakes on the 3900 disc simply do not have enough power to stop the brakes. How do I know this is not just the case with my bike? I have tested other 3900 disc bikes since all this started happening. They had the same issue. I bought new pads from the store in question. They were installed and the entire brake system was thoroughly cleaned before hand. They still do not work! The manager himself noticed that the brakes were in good condition...just not stopping powerful enough. He rode it himself! I told him the whole situation (lube problem and all). I am being totally honest with the bike shop.

Again, I take full responsibility for my mistake. However, my mistake is not why the disc brakes have sucky stopping power. I even bought new pads to remedy the mistake. So tell me again.....how am I trying to rip off the company? The manager himself AGREES that it is not the lube...it is the brakes themselves.

TELL ME! HOW AM I TRYING TO RIP OFF THIS COMPANY? Your posts about me defrauding dont make any sense.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

davidbeinct said:


> Dude, chill, I'm totally busting your chops. I just found it funny that following this twisted bunch of threads it turns out some very reasonable advice, followed by a nincompoop, resulted in all this mess.
> 
> Such are the interwebs...
> 
> David B.


David B.

Sounds like you are a little frightened of AZ LOL! You sure backed down quick. Just busting your chops though.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> AZ.MTNS,
> 
> You just don't get it. I take full responsibility for the lubricant thing.
> 
> ...


Your claims of the brakes not ever functioning do not hold up . You took possesion of your bike on 01/25/10 , not a peep from you about the brakes until one week ago when you lubricated them . Odd that there is no mention of a problem for over six weeks , then when you make a mistake and cant get it cleaned up it turns into a manufacturers problem . To top it off you come on a public forum and bash the manufacturer and your LBS instead of owning up to your mistakes . It was not until your last post that you admitted to any culpability at all . To even suggest that the product is at fault is ludacris . To suggest that the manufacturer is at fault is laughable at best and fraudulant at the worst . To sum it up you are lying and you got caught . Man up and fix the problem instead of trying to pass the buck .


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> David B.
> 
> Sounds like you are a little frightened of AZ LOL! You sure backed down quick. Just busting your chops though.


I can assure you that there is nothing but the utmost respect between DavidB. and myself , to even suggest different is foolish .


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

Like sands through the hourglass...

...these are the days of our lives.


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## Crankenator (Mar 27, 2007)

Ocean...alcohol isn't the best choice to clean up oil for something like this. A great many lubes aren't soluble in alcohol, not even a bit. It's a good general purpose solvent for cleaning airborne contaminants, car exhaust (marginal), etc. I use it for occasional wiping down of the rotors. In your other thread, I suggested that you use an Ajax powder paste. It works. That, or some auto brake cleaner, acetone, etc. (do NOT use paint thinner, mineral spirits, kerosene, turpentine, etc...those solvents have an oily residue.) 

Also, if you aren't using 91% isopropyl alcohol you're further wasting time ($1 at any drug store, sometimes found by the diabetic supplies). The usual 70% won't cut much of anything, and if you used "rubbing alcohol", that has oils in it. If the brake *honestly* sucks that bad, it may not get you where you want to be, but since the lubricant is thrown into the situation, it would at least be good to try and fix that the best way. 

If you had residual oils on the rotor, then you might have lightly contaminated your new pads. Search on this forum for methods on cleaning pads....soaking/heating/sanding works pretty well if they didn't absorb too much. Give it a shot.

I do think that as you get to know bikes, bike people, and bike shops, your attitudes might change a little bit.....hope so. Most mtb'ers are pretty cool peeps, but it's a bit of a different DIY crowd than your average automobile shopper, especially in online forums. Just sayin'.  good luck with the situation, hope it works out ok for ya.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)




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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Your claims of the brakes not ever functioning do not hold up . You took possesion of your bike on 01/25/10 , not a peep from you about the brakes until one week ago when you lubricated them . Odd that there is no mention of a problem for over six weeks , then when you make a mistake and cant get it cleaned up it turns into a manufacturers problem . To top it off you come on a public forum and bash the manufacturer and your LBS instead of owning up to your mistakes . It was not until your last post that you admitted to any culpability at all . To even suggest that the product is at fault is ludacris . To suggest that the manufacturer is at fault is laughable at best and fraudulant at the worst . To sum it up you are lying and you got caught . Man up and fix the problem instead of trying to pass the buck .


AZ.MTNS,

I think you may honestly be crazy. First, it has been a lot longer than one week since I had the lubrication problem.

Second, what do you mean I can't get it cleaned up. If I couldn't get it "cleaned up" and the manager knows about the lubrication problem. Why would he himself blame the quality of the brakes? You are acting as if I am keeping something secret from them.

Third, are you saying that I, word-for-word, have to say "I, ****** ******, take full responsibility for getting lube on my disc brakes"? When have I ever denied making the newbie mistake? Go ahead, show me the post (it doesn't exist).

Fourth, you simply will not address the FACTS. I NEVER bashed the LBS. LOL! Heck, I never even mentioned the business name. The negative thing I said about the bike shop was that the salesman lied, whether that was out of ignorance I do not know. As far as bashing Trek, that is a lie. The manager of the store agreed that the disc brakes were simply not going to give me the stopping power I needed. the simple fact that Trek decided to use disc brakes that LBS managers agree are poor quality shows that Trek needs to open their eyes to the problem.

In conclusion, I do not know why you are mad. I have found almost everyone at that business to be nice and somewhat helpful. They may have not addressed/handled every situation in a perfect manner, but I am confident that they will make it right.

I simply cannot believe your emotional issues AZ. The fact that you have gotten this fired up over on this topic shows complete ignorance of the FACTS. This forum points new buyers toward the direction of LBS, but when something goes wrong, then the trash talking starts. I have no problem whatsoever with the LBS who sold the bike reading all my posts. They already know it all AZ!


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## Crankenator (Mar 27, 2007)

The impression I got from reading your posts here and on the other threads was that you were, indeed, bashing the salesman, the bike shop, and Trek. Not only did you call them liars, but several of your posts were suggesting they were crooks (i.e. "will rip you off", paraphrased from your words). Maybe you're young and don't realize the impact of those statements, or maybe you mis-spoke when typing it out.....definitely had that impression, though. Sounds like you have great expectations and demands, and in real life things don't often satisfy like that. Salesman, for instance....lied? Perhaps he wasn't very knowledgeable, or perhaps he didn't know that those Promax brakes weren't very powerful, or perhaps he just assumed that every brake will get better with use (mostly true). But lied to you? How exactly do you know? 

As far as Trek opening their eyes to the problem, I think you're just totally missing the FACTS here, and what others have said: you bought a bottom end bike with entry level components, and $579 was a lot of money to you (your words, in a few posts, and evidenced by your haggling over $50 between shops). Trust me, those bikes are "price point" bikes and there isn't much profit at all for either the manufacturer or the retailer. It's not easy to put together a decent-quality bike at those price levels and still give you the confidence that a large company can provide with service and warranty. If you're pushing your budget, buy a cheaper bike or save up a little longer. Trek offers that bike as a pretty solid value for what you're buying, honestly. So do the entry bikes from Specialized, Scott, Giant, etc. But see them for what they ARE, not what you expect them to be as someone new to the game. They're worlds above walmart bikes, and worth buying, but you're just not going to get the awesomeness that you see in magazines and videos at that price level. Lesson learned.

Maybe "the stopping power you need" is the key here....and you just found out that bottom-end isn't going to give you that....you're just missing the point that you needed to spend more to get what you wanted. No prob, you're new to this. I think people just took issue with your unfounded bashing of products, people, and companies -- sure does look as though that's exactly what you've been doing. So suck it up, get some brakes that you like or work it out with the shop, and ride happy. 

Glad to hear that you feel like you're getting good service....reading your letter to Trek and your words about the bike shop/shop employees, and your general distrust while shopping for a bike....definitely got the opposite impression from you.

I'm getting off the grandpa soapbox now....apologies if I offended.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

Highdell, I had to google your number sequence. In case anyone's interested, here's good link:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=8u1...esult&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The figure caption explains how the sequence is derived.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

It's probably unfair for us to jump on the original poster and accuse him of defrauding his LBS, just as it is unfair of him to accuse his LBS of lying. 

What I see is a beginner who spent what he felt was a ton of money on a bike, and things have gone a bit badly for him. My advice to the OP? Spend the money. Buy a set of BB5s. Put the whole mess behind you as a lesson-learned. 

And we should all put this mess behind us. Let's not turn a minor dust-up into disaster.

If it weren't so dreary out, I'd go riding now.


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

i just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading through this thread. and another 10 seconds posting on it. enjoy the weekend, all!
ez


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## mudforlunch (Aug 9, 2004)

dude. ok. oceanfirehawk, everyone here is screwing with you. what no one here is going to tell you is that LBS and riders don't tell noobs how to get their brakes to work properly so they can get them to keep coming back and buying more parts (rotors, pads, labor costs, etc.). In order for disk brakes to work properly, you need to rub the rotors down with ranch dressing. Yes, I'm dead serious. It's one of those things that everyone who rides knows, but we never really talk about it, because almost all of us work in bike shops and make a lot of money off noobs who are just getting into riding and don't know what they're doing. Seriously, try it tonight, and then go for a ride. Those babies will stop on a dime. Hidden Valley Ranch works the best, I have found.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Kirkland from Costco works just as good, plus you can buy it in bulk - no need for that marked up name brand stuff.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

highdelll said:


> Kirkland from Costco works just as good, plus you can buy it in bulk - no need for that marked up name brand stuff.


I was wandering the aisles at Costco just yesterday and noticed Kirkland ranch dressing sports a "Not for off-road use" sticker.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

random walk said:


> I was wandering the aisles at Costco just yesterday and noticed Kirkland ranch dressing sports a "Not for off-road use" sticker.


meh... it's just a 'CYA' thing.
Just don't do any drops or hucks and you'll be fine.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

highdelll said:


> Kirkland from Costco works just as good, plus you can buy it in bulk - no need for that marked up name brand stuff.


No way baby! Great Value all the way!!! I dont need to get all "dolled up" to go down to the SuperWally Mart!!! Like You do down @ Costco's:thumbsup:


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## GrayBeard Pirate (Dec 26, 2009)

Does the ranch dressing work for hydro's as well? I'll be breaking in my new hydro brakes this weekend. I hope we have some ranch at the house.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Ranch is incompatible w/ hydros


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## vaelin (Sep 3, 2009)

You need to use italian dressing or preferrably vinegrette. The olive oil is better than the DOT brake fluid.

(Truthfully.. ranch dressing MIGHT actually work as a tire sealant.)


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

thousand island


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## JCullen (Oct 20, 2009)

+1 :thumbsup:



captainjoon said:


> thousand island


Plugs the bigger holes better!


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## eratanun (Oct 3, 2009)

GrayBeard Pirate said:


> Does the ranch dressing work for hydro's as well? I'll be breaking in my new hydro brakes this weekend. I hope we have some ranch at the house.


I've used bleu cheese with my 4 pot shimanos with great success! I've also since replaced the "stock" fluid shimano puts in with italian dressing. I find that the extra particles in italian give it some substance, and helps with modulation.

Also, one thing to look into is replacing the air in the tubes with water. No joke. it gives you a more "fluid" feel, and since air is thicker than water, your tires don't flat as easily.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

JCullen said:


> +1 :thumbsup:
> 
> Plugs the bigger holes better!


I use bleu cheese


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

mudforlunch said:


> dude. ok. oceanfirehawk, everyone here is screwing with you. what no one here is going to tell you is that LBS and riders don't tell noobs how to get their brakes to work properly so they can get them to keep coming back and buying more parts (rotors, pads, labor costs, etc.). In order for disk brakes to work properly, you need to rub the rotors down with ranch dressing. Yes, I'm dead serious. It's one of those things that everyone who rides knows, but we never really talk about it, because almost all of us work in bike shops and make a lot of money off noobs who are just getting into riding and don't know what they're doing. Seriously, try it tonight, and then go for a ride. Those babies will stop on a dime. Hidden Valley Ranch works the best, I have found.


Your are such a liar. I bought Genuine Hidden Valley Ranch. Not the bleu cheese stuff, not the cracked pepper, just the regular. I put it on my mech calipers. Went out for a ride around the block and guess what? It did not stop me at ALL. I tried Generic Ranch dressing. Didn't work either. Liars. But guess what, when I got home after crashing my bike, I was hungry. So I made a salad and used the leftover. That was good. :thumbsup:


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

I use WD-40 for my salads


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## JCullen (Oct 20, 2009)

the-one1 said:


> Your are such a liar. I bought Genuine Hidden Valley Ranch. Not the bleu cheese stuff, not the cracked pepper, just the regular. I put it on my mech calipers. Went out for a ride around the block and guess what? It did not stop me at ALL. I tried Generic Ranch dressing. Didn't work either. Liars. But guess what, when I got home after crashing my bike, I was hungry. So I made a salad and used the leftover. That was good. :thumbsup:


Sorry to hear about that. It's obviously a defect. You should wrap your rotors in lettuce (romaine is preferrable since it folds easier) and take them back to your LBS immediately and explain the situation. I had a buddy do just this and not only did they replace his rotors, they also threw in a free jar of bacon bits! Now he's set on pads for at least 2 years!


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

JCullen said:


> Sorry to hear about that. It's obviously a defect. You should wrap your rotors in lettuce (romaine is preferrable since it folds easier) and take them back to your LBS immediately and explain the situation. I had a buddy do just this and not only did they replace his rotors, they also threw in a free jar of bacon bits! Now he's set on pads for at least 2 years!


:smallviolin: :band: :drumroll: :rockon: :band: ........


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

JCullen said:


> they also threw in a free jar of bacon bits!


Obviously they hated your friend.
Bacon Bits attracts El Chupacabra .


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

LMAO. This thread has been "Ranch'd."


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## dstruct (Sep 6, 2009)

the-one1 said:


> Your are such a liar. I bought Genuine Hidden Valley Ranch. Not the bleu cheese stuff, not the cracked pepper, just the regular. I put it on my mech calipers. Went out for a ride around the block and guess what? It did not stop me at ALL. I tried Generic Ranch dressing. Didn't work either. Liars. But guess what, when I got home after crashing my bike, I was hungry. So I made a salad and used the leftover. That was good. :thumbsup:


That's because you didn't use the Homestyle Hidden Valley Ranch. Its a little strong by itself, but if you go 75% Homestyle Ranch and 25% Mayonaise its perfect! I also use Pam for chain lube. And you know what works awesome for fork oil. Buy some spray butter and dump it in your fork. ohhhhh, so nice.


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## 530_singletrack (Mar 5, 2010)

jesus christ detective az over here feeling the need to keep the world safe by "busting" internet people that are unhappy with thier brakes. you sound like a little kid whining. i dont blame the op for not being satisfied with sub par brakes, the lube issue is irrelivent considering that the op has replaced the pads and cleaned the rotors. its not rocket science it takes a few seconds to clean rotors. i fail to see how he is trying to defraud anything, it didnt sound like he was bashing trek or his lbs just expressing some slight disappointment with crappy brakes, and the fact that trek is fine with putting an inferior brake setup on a bike that is "entry level" but even then the brakes should have good stopping power. he was not asking anything more from trek or the lbs than for his brakes simply to work good. if trek sent him the exact same brakes except they work good, i bet he would be perfectly satisfied, and that is not unreasonable whatsoever to expect the brakes on a brand new bike to work good. the fact that its not a $2000 dollar bike dosent mean the brakes shouldnt work good. from what i read he isint expecting high end brakes on a cheap bike, but he says they wont even stop him at a decent speed if a car or something pulled out. im glad i didnt buy the trek because i almost did and i went with the cannondale F7. my avid bb5s if i stand up and lean back and apply the front and rear brake at full speed i come to a stop REAL quick.

to the op. its crappy that trek uses the sucky brakes on the bike you bought. but you did buy the bike with those brakes. and eventhough you were under the impression that they would be great brakes after a couple rides, i still think the best thing to do is just suck it up and buy a set up avid bb5s or bb7s there not that much money, they are great brakes. and it can be the first thing on your mod list. there are things in time you are going to want to upgrade on your bike anyway. so just take the hit, upgrade your brake system and go ride!! good luck


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## timberstone (Feb 20, 2009)

Was there ever a response from Trek?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I agree Hidden Valley Ranch is the defacto go-to brake dressing.

But for the last three seasons, I have been making my own "home-brew" brake dressing. Go to Michaels or Hobby Lobby and look for 'Latex Mold Builder'. Then you'll need some antifreeze, some Slime,........


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

Eric Z said:


> i just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading through this thread. and another 10 seconds posting on it. enjoy the weekend, all!
> ez


another 2 minutes gone! i vote for thousand island or anything from paul newman!


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## BowWow (Jan 30, 2004)

Funny stuff, especially when AZ gets to frothing at the mouth!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

BowWow said:


> Funny stuff, especially when AZ gets to frothing at the mouth!


you know it's a good thread when a '5-count' from 2004 replies,,,
---you need some 'dust-off' for that keyboard dude? 

BTW, AZ is a *** **** *** **** ** ** ******** *** (**** *** ***


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## BowWow (Jan 30, 2004)

LOL! I've found lurking to be a very enjoyable pastime! 

I've spent much of the intervening years on a roadie and hanging out at bikejournal.com, but finally got bored with the same old stuff. I'm gettin' back into the durt world, so I'll be dustin' the keys here a bit more. I attended the MTBR Arizona Spring Fling in 2004, and wanted to go this year but lost a good friend that week, so stayed home for the funeral.

I've kept tabs here over the years, and seen a lotta guys come and go - the more things change, yada yada... But things were so absurdly funny on this thread that I just needed to comment! 

P.S. I like your ride, highdell - I almost bought one myself - but the budget put me into the used market, so I'm now on a 2004 GT i-Drive. Gotta love e-Bay!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

RIP to your bud, BowWow
Ride on! :thumbsup:


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## Timm (Jun 23, 2004)

*Promax Rules!*

I found my old Promax brake levers in my junk drawer a few days ago. I laughed out loud and had all kinds of memories about the piece of sh$t components I ran through in the first year or two thinking that $600 (Gary Fisher) would get me a bike that could take me off the occasional 3-4 foot drop (although the frame lives on somehow - f#cking still love it) I think I used to say "don't give me that you get what you pay for crap" until I got what I payed for. Now $4000 later with some sweet new Avid Elixirs and a bit of the dues paid on fixing all and upgrading all that crap it's still a pain in my ass occasionally. . .Difference now is, when I cracked the swingarm on my steed last week I just smiled and felt like I had accomplished something and had a pleasant talk with the warranty dept as opposed to a claim to my credit card company. Feel the passion, get the bug and drain your bank account, or get a helmet :madman:


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

ae111black said:


> Pro max disk brakes are the absolutly worst disks on the market! Stopping power is marginal at best! May actually be unsafe in certan circumstances. I'd bite the bullet and get a set of BB7s and you should have some good stoppers! Sorry about your Wally world brakes!


agreed. OP should either bite the bullet and buy avid mechs, or return the bike since as his story goes, he was sold a bike under the advice of the salesman that the braking performance would improve... So return it, and go buy something like this:
http://www.mongoose.com/usa/eng/mtn.../Hardtail-XC/Details/2851-M10TYASP-Tyax-Sport

mongoose gives better bang for the buck in the world of components, the step up from that bike is $650ish and comes with hydraulic disc brakes... The one I posted has some tektro mechs I believe... But I really think you (OP) should just bite the bullet and get a set of BB5s, or even better and not much more, BB7s. My BB7s with old school Shimano lx V levers are amazingly powerful, endo enducing single finger operation, find a pair of "new old stock" online from a year or two ago, probably cost you 40 bucks... CHEAP upgrade, and you'd spend 700+ to find them spec'd like that stock... 
OP, be irritated trek spec'd your bike with crap brakes, and return the trek, or be annoyed that you feel mislead about the performance of the bike you purchased, but either way, it's buyer beware, and in terms of new bikes, yougotta drop a lot of cash to get fully decked out with nice ****... That's why I bought a used frame and spec'd it myself... About 900 bucks and I am on a khyber frame with pretty decent parts... If you want high performance, you pay high dollar, it's just how it works.
Regardless if you got oil on those promax POS's or not, they do suck badly, and would never give you the level of power you are expecting... Good V brakes are far more powerful.... Sooooo yep. Enjoy! 
Side note: mongoose might sell wallyworld bikes, and trek doesn't, but the gooses in a bike shop don't have the same promax garbage as the wallyworld bikes, yet that trek uses the exact same brakes as the mongoose wallyworld garbage and is sold only in bike shops.... Facts are facts, but haters gotta hate.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

You know, I struggled with my brakes for the last two weeks. At one point, I had no front brakes.

I actually shot a little bit of brake clean (CRC automotive stuff) past the pad area to get some gunk out around it. Well, this is the second time that brake clean in contact with my pads have led to glazing of the pads.

Not until the second time I rode my brakes down a 600' switchback did my brakes come back. Actually, I'll have to ride tonight to see if really did come back. It does look like I burned crud off the rotors.

In short, even Shimano LX hydros will not work if the pads are glazed because of any contaminants. And if the burning off the crud doesn't work, I'll go to my LBS and pick up some new pads for $25 and move on with my riding.

Someone had suggested baking my pads in the oven. But I think I'll not do that. Don't know what kind of gasses will be given off in a box that I put my food that I feed my family with...


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## Crankenator (Mar 27, 2007)

Yep...keep the brake cleaner off of the pads...same thing for cars, it's just for the metal surfaces. Also, the newer "green" brake cleaners seem to leave some residue behind that the older formulations didn't. I'll use them for jet blasting some parts now, but not for the bike brakes. I scrub with an Ajax paste and use 91% alcohol for wiping the rotors once in awhile. You're fine with baking them...you can prop the door open or just bump it up to self-clean when you're done and there won't be any fumes left. Besides, if you use organic brake pads, that HAS to be good for family dinners.


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## captainjoon (Aug 11, 2009)

If you are an uber newbie and this thread confuses you, DO NOT listen to these guys about their Ranch, Blue Cheese and Light Vinegarette...you WILL crash and hurt yourself.

...

...

...








...Thousand Island is the ONLY way to go.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

530_singletrack said:


> jesus christ detective az over here feeling the need to keep the world safe by "busting" internet people that are unhappy with thier brakes. you sound like a little kid whining. i dont blame the op for not being satisfied with sub par brakes, the lube issue is irrelivent considering that the op has replaced the pads and cleaned the rotors. its not rocket science it takes a few seconds to clean rotors. i fail to see how he is trying to defraud anything, it didnt sound like he was bashing trek or his lbs just expressing some slight disappointment with crappy brakes, and the fact that trek is fine with putting an inferior brake setup on a bike that is "entry level" but even then the brakes should have good stopping power. he was not asking anything more from trek or the lbs than for his brakes simply to work good. if trek sent him the exact same brakes except they work good, i bet he would be perfectly satisfied, and that is not unreasonable whatsoever to expect the brakes on a brand new bike to work good. the fact that its not a $2000 dollar bike dosent mean the brakes shouldnt work good. from what i read he isint expecting high end brakes on a cheap bike, but he says they wont even stop him at a decent speed if a car or something pulled out. im glad i didnt buy the trek because i almost did and i went with the cannondale F7. my avid bb5s if i stand up and lean back and apply the front and rear brake at full speed i come to a stop REAL quick.
> 
> to the op. its crappy that trek uses the sucky brakes on the bike you bought. but you did buy the bike with those brakes. and eventhough you were under the impression that they would be great brakes after a couple rides, i still think the best thing to do is just suck it up and buy a set up avid bb5s or bb7s there not that much money, they are great brakes. and it can be the first thing on your mod list. there are things in time you are going to want to upgrade on your bike anyway. so just take the hit, upgrade your brake system and go ride!! good luck


Finally, a voice of reason. UPDATE: Trek said that they were going to send a pair of BB5's to the bike shop for my bike...free! Squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

oceanfirehawk said:


> Finally, a voice of reason. UPDATE: Trek said that they were going to send a pair of BB5's to the bike shop for my bike...free! Squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess.


Right on! Glad Trek stepped up.

I rode a buddy's bike with BB5's the other day. They really are good brakes. We were going down some steep descents and they worked great.


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## oceanfirehawk (Jan 14, 2010)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Right on! Glad Trek stepped up.
> 
> I rode a buddy's bike with BB5's the other day. They really are good brakes. We were going down some steep descents and they worked great.


I am glad to. However, now tons of people know that if they dont like the brakes on the 3900 disc that they can get them to send new brakes for free.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

oceanfirehawk said:


> I am glad to. However, now tons of people know that if they dont like the brakes on the 3900 disc that they can get them to send new brakes for free.


Maybe Trek should go the way of most of the company's and do a "Recall" on them..... I still say that bike company's will still skimp on the lower end stuff ! they cant sell a bike for $350 and spec it out like a $1500 ride. That said I say "Lesson Learned" I hope you thanked Trek for going out of their way to keep a customer satisfied!

Now Go over to the "Recycle Bin" and check the threat about tacos......


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

ae111black said:


> Maybe Trek should go the way of most of the company's and do a "Recall" on them..... I still say that bike company's will still skimp on the lower end stuff ! they cant sell a bike for $350 and spec it out like a $1500 ride. That said I say "Lesson Learned" I hope you thanked Trek for going out of their way to keep a customer satisfied!
> 
> Now Go over to the "Recycle Bin" and check the threat about tacos......


The OP never mentioned he was using the breaks for anything extreme. Even lower end V-brakes work fine for light trail riding and street. It is apparent that everybody, including yourself agree these pro max are down right garbage.



ae111black said:


> I hope you thanked Trek for going out of their way to keep a customer satisfied!


He did more than thank them. He supported them by buying one of their bikes. You make it sound like the kid owes them an apology.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> The OP never mentioned he was using the breaks for anything extreme. Even lower end V-brakes work fine for light trail riding and street. It is apparent that everybody, including yourself agree these pro max are down right garbage.
> 
> He did more than thank them. He supported them by buying one of their bikes. You make it sound like the kid owes them an apology.


No apology needed.....  I just said I hope he thanked them.....Wich he probably did. And yes Promax Disks sux. And yes even lower end V's are fine for even heavy trail work. They were fine back in the 90's and are still fine for many folks. Heck I still use en on my commuter.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

traffic002 said:


> .
> 
> Someone had suggested baking my pads in the oven. But I think I'll not do that. Don't know what kind of gasses will be given off in a box that I put my food that I feed my family with...


That is why I use an old frying pan on the stove top set at medium.


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## jdwright (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm riding a 2010 3900 Disc, and I must agree with OP. The brakes are horrible, can't really endo and locking up the rear only happens if I've got my weight towards the front. They slow me down, I wouldn't really call it "stopping".

I live on the coast so hills aren't a huge problem, but the few I've been down were not fun when it came time to stop before a tree, turn, cliff, etc.

Good to see I'm not the only one with this problem. I knew it was a cheap bike, wasn't sure I was going to stick with the sport. Will be going for BB5 or 7s very soon though. A couple close calls that I'd prefer not to have again.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

oceanfirehawk said:


> ...Squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess.


Yes, but not the rotor


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## wi_bigfoot (Mar 13, 2010)

Hate to bring bad news to the table but my Trek 6000 has BB5's and I can't lock up the brakes so just fair warning you still may not to be able to.


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## FLMike (Sep 28, 2008)

wi_bigfoot said:


> Hate to bring bad news to the table but my Trek 6000 has BB5's and I can't lock up the brakes so just fair warning you still may not to be able to.


a friend of mine has BB5's and also cant lock up his brakes.... they do stop him, just not as quick as the higher end brakes...


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## BowWow (Jan 30, 2004)

Nose wheelies with my BB5's no problem. Just gotta keep 'em adjusted properly and run good brake pads. I usually run Compound T sintered pads, but the black ceramics will put you OTB in a flash!


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## Tuff Gong (May 8, 2009)

So Treks installing anti-lock brakes on their entry level MTB's now?:???: I thought the latest technology trickles 'down' from the high end stuff?


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## 530_singletrack (Mar 5, 2010)

wi_bigfoot said:


> Hate to bring bad news to the table but my Trek 6000 has BB5's and I can't lock up the brakes so just fair warning you still may not to be able to.


if bb5s cant lock up any tire at any time then there must be something wrong or not adjusted properly. i keep my pads adjusted and my cables tight on my new cannondale F7 and they work absolutely perfect!! i can lock up my front or rear tire at full speed. if i stand up and get my weight back on my bike i can get on the front brake real hard and the rear brake accordingly, and my bike will come to a stop real real quick. when i was still getting used to the bike i almost ate it a couple time accidently getting on my front brake a little to much, and either almost endoing or having my front lock up. i have about 60 miles on my new bike since i bought it last weekend and my brakes have not even needed any adjustment yet, they feel the same as they did 60 miles ago. on my bb5s i adjust the brake pad in untill it drags on the rotor. not too much but to where if i give the wheel a good spin while its in the air it makes 2 or 3 spins and comes to a stop. whereas if you were to spin it without the brake drag it would probably spin 6 or 7 times or even more. i dont know if this is the recomended way but i get very good braking results from doing this. of course to much brake drag will put resistance on your wheels.

to the op. im glad trek is stepping up like that. you are going to love the bb5s is you get them setup right they work freekin awesome.


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## 530_singletrack (Mar 5, 2010)

i weigh 205lbs to by the way, so its not like im 120lbs over here telling you these brakes work awsome. 205 and i ride hard still these brake work very well.


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## wi_bigfoot (Mar 13, 2010)

I weigh 180 lbs and I have no complaints on the stopping power. I hit the brakes and I come to a stop quickly. Do the tires lock up though? No they don't. Brakes seem to be fine. and there is some rotor drag on both brakes so the pads can't be moved any closer. 

Not sure what the big deal is about the need for the brakes "to lock up" but my BB5's work fine. I will upgrade to the BB7's at some point though.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

JonathanGennick said:


> I worked on a bike last summer having Promax brakes. Those brakes were so terrible, I almost couldn't bring myself to put them back on the bike. They don't really stop you. They just sorta slow you down, sort of. I came awfully close to buying the kid whose bike I was rebuilding a set of BB5s from my own pocket. Yes, those Promax brakes were really that bad.
> 
> OP, can you afford to spend maybe $70? If so, then go on eBay and grab a set of Avid BB5s. Here's a link to a pair:
> 
> ...


I bought a crashed 2008 GT Outpost Disc:

2008 GT Outpost Disc - BikePedia

for $40..broken fork & rear derailleur hanger. But, came with a new replacement rear derailleur. I am building it for a "client". Same story..I was SHOCKED at how bad the Promax brakes were in terms of stopping power. The rears were upgraded to Aztec pads

[ I have Aztec pads on rim brakes..INCREDIBLE! 3x stopping power of stock pads...difference is like night & day ]

but the fronts were apparently stock. The pads appeared to be contaminated, so I did the standard:

- bake them on a pan until they started to smoke
- sanded them down

I went out for a test-ride, some improvement. But, still lacking in stopping power. I just did 2 builds for a husband/wife client (80's KHS MTB & early 90's Schwinn MOS Impact), with rim brakes...using aftermarket Koolstop II Claws pads . The brakes have huge stopping power, can lock the wheels easy.. The older brake pads (25 - 30 years old) simply deteriorated due to age.

For the Trek 3900, I initially thought the PADS which need to be upgraded. But, the original poster did a pad upgrade..no help. Did he get decent brand? Is it really the Promax disc brakes which need to be replaced?? I don't get it..you have a single pad pressing against a stationary pad. Pretty basic.

It should be noted that the stationary pad can be moved in/out, & there's a LOCKING allen screw to keep it in place. I wonder if the inner pad was "out" enough, & the weak braking was due to rotor hitting METAL of the caliper.

I had a 2008 GT Avalanche 2.0

[ fairly nice bike, just 1 level below the top-of-line Avalanche 1.0 ]

which had basic IO disc brakes..similar in design to Promax. Man, those brakes were strong! See attached image. I had a KHS Urban Xcel hybrid (w/disc brakes..basic design)

2008 KHS Urban Xcel - BikePedia

[ equipped with Bengal disc brakes..looked pretty basic to me ]

man it had UNBELIEVABLE stopping power!! See attached image. Even, better than my personal bikes with rim brake . I ended up selling it.

The BB5 is a basic design, moving pad against a stationary pad.

There are some CRAZY GOOD deals on Craigslist, most of the bikes needs work. Especially, truing the wheels. I got a 2000 Giant Rainier SE

2000 Giant Rainier SE - BikePedia

which had been upgraded to BB7. Only $100..!! The spokes were soft, wheels needed truing.

To OP:
I would forget about getting new bikes, especially Trek. Entry level Treks are OVERPRICED .. POS, compared to Giant, GT, Diamondback. At a given price-point, these bikes have BETTER components. I came across Trek 3700 (beat up, abused..) for $30, & fixed it up..after a REAL struggle. It had STEEL handle-bars..!! Even the Trek 4300 I came across used..had STEEL handle-bars!!

[ All in the name of saving pennies, making HUGE profits on large sales to unsuspecting buyers. ]

The 4300 even had SINGLE-WALL rims!! At this level (4000 series)..Alivio rear derailleur & single-wall rims..WTF. Back in 2002, I got a new Diamondback Topanga Comp Disc for $470 (3x9 27 speed) -- Shimano disc brakes, double-wall rims, Deorge shifters, Deore LX (front & rear derailleur!!). Arguably the BEST bang/buck at the time. I still remember doing the "grand tour", evaluating Specialized Hard Rock (no go). A Giant dealer told me how Giants are known for bang/buck (true).

*Example:*
Trek 7.2fx hybrid (lists for $500)..comes with Alivio components & cheapo crank (with STAMPED chain rings). WTF. I got a Schwinn hybrid for $260 from Performancebike after promo discounts. Had nice Truvativ crank.

I came across a 7.2fx on CL, fixed it up with new wheels..put it up for sale. I was SHOCKED at how many inquiries I got over CL!! People have this "aura" of Trek being a superior brand (Lance Armstrong marketing). Trek marketing knows this, their entry-level bikes are overpriced POS..literally "robbing" unsuspecting/ignorant buyers.

"People don't buy Good Products, they buy GOOD MARKETING"
-- Business 101


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## roktoy (Oct 19, 2015)

You know this is a six year old thread


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

roktoy said:


> You know this is a six year old thread


Been a lot of that going around lately. Maybe something to do with this being a leap year.


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## chimpanzee00 (Dec 16, 2006)

I just tuned up a 2000 Trek 8000 SL Race ($120 off Craigslist)

2001 Trek 8000 - BikePedia

replaced faded rim brake pads with Aztec pads. Whoah..I could lock BOTH wheels, & leave skid marks. The GT Outpost Disc (Promax disc brakes) can't even come close to this!!


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