# Mystery Ti Frame



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I bought this bike a few days ago and after striping it down I am a little confused. The decals are all Manitou and there is a Litespeed decal on the seat tube however I have not seen a litespeed frame with wishbone stays. There is no serial number to be found. It has Made in the USA stamped on the BB shell and a signature decal that I can't make out. I have seen similar dropouts on other bikes but I can't remember where. It came with a Manitou 3 and a mix of parts. Lx cranks, xt rear derailler and hub, white industries hub up front. XT dual control levers and what I think are Grafton brakes. I only got to sit on it while it was built because it was not in ridable condition but I think it fits me pretty well and I want to build it up, maybe as a superlight rigid singlespeed with modern parts.

Did Litespeed make frames for Manitou? Or is this just a no name ti frame with some decals on it? I could never afford a Ti frame but I got this one cheap and selling some of the parts I should break even. The last Ti frame I bought had a hidden crack. I was pissed because it was a Merlin. Here is a link to the original ad (check out the dice on the cable ends) http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/bik/1497175499.html

Here are some pics:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Here are some more pics. Thanks for any help.


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

Well, it has the Litespeed American flag decal on the seat tube and the "W David Lynskey" signature decal on the chainstay, but nearly everything else looks like a Sandvik produced frame.... especially the seat tube mounted front derailleur cable housing stop.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Zanetti said:


> Well, it has the Litespeed American flag decal on the seat tube and the "W David Lynskey" signature decal on the chainstay, but nearly everything else looks like a Sandvik produced frame.... especially the seat tube mounted front derailleur cable housing stop.


The dropouts look Sandvik to me too although I've never seen a Sandvik frame with a breather hole through like the one at the base of the seat stay. The mono-stay should be a telling detail although it's not a Bontrager ti-lite. Weren't there Sandvik mono-stays sold by Mongoose?


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

Boy named SSue said:


> Weren't there Sandvik mono-stays sold by Mongoose?


I think you're right, but the Mongoose frames were a _matte_ finish, more of a bead blast look. This one looks more "polished". Someone could have had it refinished, I suppose...


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

$375!!! Looks like your Karma from all the free AC stuff you sent out is coming home:thumbsup:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Team Fubar Rider said:


> I think you're right, but the Mongoose frames were a _matte_ finish, more of a bead blast look. This one looks more "polished". Someone could have had it refinished, I suppose...


I considered that too but after a little cleaning the finish looks like a factory job. It is too clean around the cable guides to be a polish job. I lucked out on this one. The Manitou fork actually works. The cables and and brake pad bolts were rusted but none of the other bolts had rust, score! Full titanium bolt kit. It just baffles me that there is no serial number anywhere but they took the time to stamp made in the usa on it. The welds are beautiful. Anyone know of a product that I can use to shine up Ti?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

sandmangts said:


> Anyone know of a product that I can use to shine up Ti?


It looks like a ball-burnished finish, which is an expensive process which is another indicator that this might be something quite decent. I think gm1230126 is probably your best source of polishing info, his 92 Xizang always looks crazy shiny in pix. There is also a RetroBike member (screen name Gary Turner) who is a bit of a polishing obsessive.

Personally, I polished my Xizang up a little using Mother's when I got it and haven't bothered since - got some new decals coming though so maybe I'll give it some TLC.

That really is a nice score for the price - the Ti bolt kit is a huge bonus as they seem to be very expensive these days. look forward to someone ID-ing it.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

i'm currently shopping the bay for some cheap ti frames.... got an urge to build a few all of a sudden. Found another Titan Compe (WITH the bottom bracket) and a couple nice airbornes.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Zanetti said:


> Well, it has the Litespeed American flag decal on the seat tube and the "W David Lynskey" signature decal on the chainstay, but nearly everything else looks like a Sandvik produced frame.... especially the seat tube mounted front derailleur cable housing stop.


Exactly my thoughts. The stay ends at the dropoouts and the serial number stamping scream Sandvik.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Here is the response I got from Litespeed. 
Aaron,

From what I can see, that does not look like a Litespeed frame. If you could get a serial number, it would be able to help a good bit. We have built countless frames for other companies, so this might be the case for this particular frame. 

Thanks and a serial number will be the best to assist further in the manufacturer of the frame.

Oh well, it is a damn nice frame no matter what. Maybe after I get it cleaned up I will find a clue.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Yup, those bullets look Sandvik.

-Schmitty-


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

As was clearly stated by two people above it is in fact Sandvik manufactured frame. Did you send the picture to Titanium Sports also and ask them if they can ID it?


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> As was clearly stated by two people above it is in fact Sandvik manufactured frame. Did you send the picture to Titanium Sports also and ask them if they can ID it?


not yet. i sent the email to Litespeed before I posted this.


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

If it were my frame, I'd remove all the decals and give it a nice brushed finish -- then ride it to hell and back. :thumbsup: 

Sandvik frames didn't have much prestige, but they were built straight and to a high standard.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Why Lynsky decals on a Sandvick frame?

J


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

Lynskey sold Litespeed and started fresh. Why don't you email him?

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

There was litigation 10+ years ago regarding the use of bullets to cap the stays on Ti bikes.. I think basically 'who did it first'. I know Litespeed was involved... can't recall the rest. Maybe this frame is a mixed bag...

Imo Sandvik frames were/are always held in higher esteem than either Litespeed or Lynskey. $350 seems like an ok price, not knowing geo, tubes, etc.

-Schmitty-


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

you could buy litespeed decals for 15 bucks a couple yrs ago.

i say slap some fisher gratefull dead decals on and you are golden.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

colker1 said:


> you could buy litespeed decals for 15 bucks a couple yrs ago.
> 
> i say slap some fisher gratefull dead decals on and you are golden.


LOL

biss-ness will be on here in a minute telling you off for milking that one. Milk on I say!:thumbsup:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

colker1 said:


> you could buy litespeed decals for 15 bucks a couple yrs ago.
> 
> i say slap some fisher gratefull dead decals on and you are golden.


No way man, I am saving those decals for my chromed Mongoose!


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## biss-ness (Aug 13, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> View attachment 503109


I don't think these are Litespeed drop outs. Here is a link to the Litespeed catalogs

https://www.litespeed.com/2006/catalog.aspx










Looks like some dummy slapped some decals on a chrome frame, good luck with your search.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh, come on man! It's no fun if you don't bite!


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

outside! said:


> Lynskey sold Litespeed and started fresh. Why don't you email him?
> 
> http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/


Because it's neither a Lynskey or a Litespeed.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Sandvik was a tubing manufacturer with a contract building shop. They sold out the building shop to some of the shop managers who renamed it Titanium Sports (Ti-Sports). Over the years this facility built for all the brands listed here and maybe some others:
Bachetta, Bontrager, Colorado Cyclist, Dean, Diamondback, Fuji, Gary Fisher, GT, Ibis, Kona, Marin, Mongoose Pro, Sampson and Yeti.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

What is the serial number??? It may possibly be an early Dean Colonel which had a monostay.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

These chiseled point rear stay ends were used on quite a few bikes coming out of Sandvik in 93 and 94, some even later.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> What is the serial number??? It may possibly be an early Dean Colonel which had a monostay.


I have cleaned and completely dismantled the bike and there is no serial number anywhere. Only the Made in the USA stamp. It is one of the heaviest Ti frames I have ever seen at 4.4 pounds with the headset installed. It came out nice after cleaning. The parts are very dirty too. Can anyone ID the brakes. I thought they were Grafton but I think they are something else.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Curves?


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Tektro baby...

-Schmitty-


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

1995 Sandvik dropouts on a Diamondback.


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## midtnSS (Apr 26, 2004)

*Similar to mine*

I never remember a Litespeed with a monostay but my 99 Ocoee had these bullet stays, different dropouts too:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Sandvik (Titanium Sports) got back to me and confirmed it is one of their frames. They said it is one of 5 early test bikes built for Manitou but never put into production. The key to the identity was the breather hole in the dropout and the wishbone stay. He said the lack of a serial number is typical for a test bike. He also stated that the higher weight was because a heavier guage Ti tubing was used on most test bikes to pass stress to the welds to test the weld strength. He was not sure how this one survived the testing process or how it made it out of the factory. It was probably stolen. 
































I'm just kidding, I still don't know what the hell it is. Titanium sports never got back to me. I was just having a little fantasy time. I am sick at home bored out of my mind. I just found out my wife is pregant so building it will have to wait or be super cheap.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

sandmangts said:


> I just found out my wife is pregant so building it will have to wait or be super cheap.


They know what causes that now. Congratulations by the way. Remember that midnight diaper changing is daddy/baby bonding time. If the kid is like my kids, mom will be busy enough at night feeding the little hoover.

At least you have a heavy duty rust proof frame. Hang whatever parts you can get on it and make a commuter out of it. Too bad there aren't any rack mounts.


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

sandmangts said:


> I just found out my wife is pregant so building it will have to wait or be super cheap.


Congrats man, you'll have plenty of time to wrench while the baby is sleeping!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Yea, Yea, you got me...

Congratulations on the addition to the family, The bike will look just fine pulling a Burley trailer around.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

outside! said:


> mom will be busy enough at night feeding the little hoover.
> 
> .


HEY! Wait a minute...the "HOOV" had nothing to do with this...

congrats by the way, but no child support coming from me


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Maybe it's a Wolf Creek. Wolf Creek frames were polished, had a wishbone stay, and the company was located about an hour from where you picked it up. I can't remember if they were made here though.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

sandmangts said:


> Sandvik (Titanium Sports) got back to me and confirmed it is one of their frames. They said it is one of 5 early test bikes built for Manitou but never put into production. The key to the identity was the breather hole in the dropout and the wishbone stay. He said the lack of a serial number is typical for a test bike. He also stated that the higher weight was because a heavier guage Ti tubing was used on most test bikes to pass stress to the welds to test the weld strength. He was not sure how this one survived the testing process or how it made it out of the factory. It was probably stolen.
> 
> I'm just kidding, I still don't know what the hell it is. Titanium sports never got back to me. I was just having a little fantasy time. I am sick at home bored out of my mind. I just found out my wife is pregant so building it will have to wait or be super cheap.


If you don;t get an answer from Sandvik try sending your pics to DEAN.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for the clues guys. I just sent my Brave in for paint last week and it is going to be expensive. Had I known my wifes condition I may not have but I already paid the deposit for the work so I am committed. It is going to be killer though. Tri color fade with splash just like the originals. This one is going to have to wait a while. I broke my thumb a few weeks ago so building is tough right now. I can't shift gears either but at least riding my SS does not hurt much. I am just glad my wife got pregnant. Last time we had to try pretty hard, not that I am complaining but this time it just happened.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Congrats!


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## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Congrats on the new addition to the family!

Our Second one almost killed me as the workload increases exponentially rather than merely being additive. It also came with a spare 20 lbs that remains after 2 years. Naturally my advanced age didn't help matters. ;-)

Congrats again, while they definitely eat into the bike bugdet, I wouldn't trade mine in.

Tim


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

gm1230126 said:


> Because it's neither a Lynskey or a Litespeed.


Up to now, I have only seen a response from Litespeed saying it is not one their frames. Since Litespeed is no longer owned by the Lynskey family, I don't consider that to be definitive proof. While I agree it does not look like any Litespeed I have ever seen, I think it would be worth contacting Lynskey. The Lynskey signature decal probably isn't the easiest thing in the world to get a hold of (unless someone used a hair dryer to get it off another frame). People do weird stuff, so that is certainly possible.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

outside! said:


> Up to now, I have only seen a response from Litespeed saying it is not one their frames. Since Litespeed is no longer owned by the Lynskey family, I don't consider that to be definitive proof. While I agree it does not look like any Litespeed I have ever seen, I think it would be worth contacting Lynskey. The Lynskey signature decal probably isn't the easiest thing in the world to get a hold of (unless someone used a hair dryer to get it off another frame). People do weird stuff, so that is certainly possible.


 I contacted them and they said they could not help me I.D. the frame. Not that it was not theirs just that they would not help me. Oh well.


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## PTP (Sep 11, 2009)

could be an old Wolf Creek bike i thought they were made by Sandvik aswell


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

sandmangts said:


> I contacted them and they said they could not help me I.D. the frame. Not that it was not theirs just that they would not help me. Oh well.


What excellent PR. This kind of fits in with stories I heard about Mr. Lynskey from an ex-employee of Litespeed. The stories were less than kind.


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## tiboltrider (Dec 8, 2009)

That frame looks a tad like one of these:


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## tiboltrider (Dec 8, 2009)

Here's the shop link:

http://www.reckless.ca/the_story

Yep, a Sandvik same as my TiBolt and Dean.

And here's another one:


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## FKMTB07 (Mar 29, 2007)

Man, I'm a sucker for a silver/gray/Ti frame with blue/purple ano'ed parts... beautiful.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Wow! Thats it! Every detail on that frame is identical to the one I have. Only the finish is different. So it is Sandvik built for RekTek of Canada? Wonder how it ended up back down here.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> Wow! So if it is Sandvik built for RekTek of Canada? Wonder how it ended up back down here.


Yeah, for sure eh...Canada is soooo far away


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> Yeah, for sure eh...Canada is soooo far away


 Yeah, I guess I need a geometry class. Makes me wonder if those brakes are Canadian too. Come to think of it the guy that sold it too me did say aboot a few times.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Was the top of his head not attached to the bottom?

Did he apologise constantly for no reason?

Was he wearing hunting camo?

As far as I can tell (as an ex-pat Brit) that covers most of the Canadian population


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

mechagouki said:


> Was the top of his head not attached to the bottom?
> 
> Did he apologise constantly for no reason?
> 
> ...


You must watch Southpark.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

muddybuddy said:


> You must watch Southpark.


It's a guilty pleasure..........


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

da'HOOV said:


> Yeah, for sure eh...Canada is soooo far away


It is. We're still wearing shorts and flip flops down here. Xmas should be in the mid eighties


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Vader said:


> It is. We're still wearing shorts and flip flops down here. Xmas should be in the mid eighties


It's a balmy -2 in Toronto at the moment. Light powder on the ground.

Pretty warm for this time of year.


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