# Orbea MX 20 Team Disc



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

This was delivered today for my 6 year old son. He learned to pedal without training wheels 3 weeks ago. Is it too much bike for a kid that just figured out pedaling without training wheels? Yes, but he earned it with outstanding behavior at home and school, excellent marks on his report card, and meeting the riding goals I had set for him a month ahead of the schedule. We rode 7 miles together last Saturday, he set the pace and I followed. An impressive distance I thought on a 12" wheel toddlers bike.

It is a little bit big for him, I'm short 5'6", my wife is short 5'3", my 6 year old is the size of an average 5 year old, but he would outgrow a 16" bike which fits him perfect faster than my wallet could keep up with, and I won't throw away money on a Wally World\Target special just for a proper fit. He will have 3-4 years in this bike which made the price justifiable.

After he achieved all goals set for him ahead of schedule and looking at every 20" mtb $500 and under, I narrowed my choices down to this and the Specialized RipRock 20 since he wanted disk brakes like daddy's bike has. Priced $50 more than the Specialized it comes with Altus derailleur and trigger shifter opposed to the RipRocks Tourney with Revo Grip shift, which is not a big step up, but is a step up and no grip shift that he found difficult on the bikes we had him try out. Also it has a rigid fork (I view this as a plus for a learning child), weighs under 20lbs, and has hydraulic disks rather than cable disks making it easier for little hands to pull the levers to stop. The wheels are also tubeless ready. For a $50 price difference from the Specialized, it seemed a logical choice for me.

After assembling it today, I am extremely pleased with the quality of this bike for the price. He spent about 20 minutes on it this evening and I watched his confidence level rise with each pedal stroke. I'm taking him to a low traffic paved bike path this weekend to increase his confidence and make sure that he fully understands braking and shifting. Next weekend I will introduce him to the dirt trails that he keeps asking to ride!

My wife also just learned to ride a bike 3 weeks ago. She has my 17 year old Trek hardtail for now. We have been enjoying family rides around the neighborhood with the end game plan being family rides on local bike park single track as a continuing effort for this dad to get well under his current Clyde weight and in shape rather than round shape.


----------



## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

Looks great! Thanks for sharing your story and good luck on the trails!


----------



## quaestionis (Jan 10, 2008)

Its funny how many similarities exist between my situation and yours! 

My son's Orbea MX 20 Disc also arrived this week, and we just finished his first ride on dirt today after just doing cul-de-sac rides for the first few days. His previous bike was a Haro with coaster brakes, and I didn't want to get him out on the trail before he was comfortable with the hydraulic lever brakes.

We also narrowed things down to this bike and the Specialized Rip Rock, and it was the Rip Rock's useless front suspension fork that made me stay away. My 6 1/4 year old was too light to even activate the suspension, so all it did was add weight and unnecessary complexity. I did love the Rip Rock's plus size tires though, and wish the MX 20 had a little more clearance for wider tires. The Kenda Small Block 8 tires might as well be street tires, and I'm planning to at least upgrade them to some meatier 2.2 tires soon.

A couple of early bits of feedback on the MX 20 from me: First, I have the brake levers dialed all the way in, but his small hands still have some trouble pulling them while keeping a firm grip on the bars. But his hands will grow, and I'm hoping this will be his bike for 3 years, so I'm not that concerned.

Likewise, he has trouble with the lower thumb shifter as well, as the "throw" is pretty long and his small thumbs have trouble pushing it far enough to shift. I've watched him have to rotate his wrist WAY downward to apply enough pressure to get it to click. Again, a little time to grow will fix this, but I see why grip shifts are more popular at this age.

Happy trails to you and your son, I hope your entire family enjoys your time riding together.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Szy_szka said:


> Looks great! Thanks for sharing your story and good luck on the trails!


Thank you, I can't wait to get him out on the trails



quaestionis said:


> Its funny how many similarities exist between my situation and yours!
> 
> My son's Orbea MX 20 Disc also arrived this week, and we just finished his first ride on dirt today after just doing cul-de-sac rides for the first few days. His previous bike was a Haro with coaster brakes, and I didn't want to get him out on the trail before he was comfortable with the hydraulic lever brakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really look forward to getting us all out in the dirt! When I was putting it together the first thing I did was dial the brake levers all the way in. On last nights getting familiar ride he had no issues locking up the rear wheel, and when the rear end got light he figured out really quick to be gentle with the front brake. On the riprock he test rode, he had issues with enough hand strength to make the cable disk work well. Hydraulic was certainly the right choice.

He has the same issue with shifting, but I went with triggers for a reason. I have read so many stories about kids having issues with the grip shift, especially after some use that I figured a little extra work until his hands grow will be ok for the increased reliability of a trigger.

We live in South Florida so the tires should be ok down here until he starts more advanced trails. The easy trails are sand over hard pack. When I see that they are no longer adequate I'll swap to a meatier tire, and probably go tubeless then.

May you and your son enjoy your trail time too!

Edit:
I did notice he was stretched out a bit further than I like, so today I ordered this from Amazon in 32mm length.









https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J399Q4O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Today's riding around the neighborhood went very well! He will ride his first trail tomorrow. We will stick to the beginners trail the first few times out until I am comfortable with his abilities.


























































I am a proud papa with how quickly he adapted to a bike that is a bit big for him. His confidence increased 10 fold as soon as he figured out how to mount it, start moving unassisted, stop, and dismount. He is able to hold a straight line on it which he could never do on the short wheelbase 12" bike. Any time a car would come down the street, he would pull off into the grass and stop. The first car we encountered today, I told him "stay on your side of the road", he went all the way to the grass line, and held it there for a couple house lengths as we passed the car. It was like a light switch flipped at that point in his head, and we rode 5 more laps of the neighborhood (about 4 miles) with out stopping! A half block at a time was the prior maximum distance.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

We went to the bike park today and rode in monsoon conditions. The tires definitely need to change, they are useless off-road. He dumped it in bottom bracket deep water several times with the front or rear washing out, also several times on wet roots, the tires just slid out from under him. I had him at 18 psi too, so plenty soft. My son took it all like a champ though! He kept getting back up and riding, and is looking forward to going back.


----------



## quaestionis (Jan 10, 2008)

Great ongoing reports! Glad he's doing well, sounds like a tough and talented rider.

Great suggestion on the shorter stem, my son is really stretched out as well. I may pair that 32mm you posted with a pair of cheap Chinese carbon bars from ebay to drop a little more weight.

The last thing I'm still processing is the pedals. My son's feet are constantly slipping off the stock plastic pedals as he rides more technical sections of trail. I don't think he's quite ready for clipless shoes/pedals, but am considering getting some different flat pedals with better grip soon.

Oh and the stock Small Block 8 tires are garbage. I'm getting rid of those ASAP. Its like ice skating out on the trail...


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

quaestionis said:


> Great ongoing reports! Glad he's doing well, sounds like a tough and talented rider.
> 
> Great suggestion on the shorter stem, my son is really stretched out as well. I may pair that 32mm you posted with a pair of cheap Chinese carbon bars from ebay to drop a little more weight.
> 
> ...


Thanks! He is a tough little guy once he sets his mind to it. Sometimes getting started he is a bit whiny. To his credit it was torrential rain with less than 20 feet visibility when we first started.

I just sized him with the stem in, much better! I ordered some Kenda Smoker 20x2 today after watching him slide on things yesterday. The small blocks would be a great groomed track bmx tire, which is what it is. The Kenda Smoker is an aggressive, knobby mtb tire. Not as wide as I would have liked, but make up for it in tread pattern.

I replaced the pedals Friday with some Forte platforms. His feet have not come off since.


----------



## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

Be careful with the bigger pedals. I've got adult size platforms on my youngest's 20" and while he's just fooling around in the culdesac currently if he leans into the turns much he's going to end up with pedal strikes. Unfortunately I can't find a good OE sized platform pedal.


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Kingfisher2011 said:


> Be careful with the bigger pedals. I've got adult size platforms on my youngest's 20" and while he's just fooling around in the culdesac currently if he leans into the turns much he's going to end up with pedal strikes. Unfortunately I can't find a good OE sized platform pedal.


Wellgo KC001 is a good choice, I used to have them on my son's Hedgehog. That said, if he's keeping his inside pedal at 6 o'clock during turns they're going to hit the ground regardless of pedal size. Inside leg up during turns and pedals at 3 o'clock/9 o'clock the rest of the time is an essential skill. When my son was first getting out on trails I tried to "coach" him as little as possible and just let him ride, have fun and figure it out on his own. But, whenever I saw his pedals shift to 12/6 I would immediately yell "Pedals flat!"


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Wellgo KC001 is a good choice, I used to have them on my son's Hedgehog. That said, if he's keeping his inside pedal at 6 o'clock during turns they're going to hit the ground regardless of pedal size. Inside leg up during turns and pedals at 3 o'clock/9 o'clock the rest of the time is an essential skill. When my son was first getting out on trails I tried to "coach" him as little as possible and just let him ride, have fun and figure it out on his own. But, whenever I saw his pedals shift to 12/6 I would immediately yell "Pedals flat!"


Exactly this! When I was a Junior racer many, many moons ago, my trainer drilled this into my head. With my son being 6 I let him have fun for the most part and learn from his mistakes, but I do correct coasting and cornering pedal positions, and to keep pedaling in general. Most of the times he has dumped the bike is because he just stops pedaling in places where you can not coast.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Totally agree with you guys about pedal position. 

Also Dicky, what is the pressure that you are running on the SB8 tires? I only ask because I have found them to be a pretty capable tire for my son in varying conditions...hero dirt, rocky, rooty, moderately loose etc. Lat year my sons weight was in the high 40's mid 50's. I ran his tires at about 12.5 to 13.5 psi. That was with tubes also. There was a sweet spot for his weight that he didn't have any bounce from the tire but they ran excellently, and gripped very well. During the week while we weren't riding, I would air the tires up to about 55-60 psi and let them sit. This would stretch out the casing and I'd air them down to riding pressure right before we were ready to throw our legs over and get going. Helped immensely. 

Also, mine are the foldable version. Not sure if that's going to make a difference in the ride quality though because both the folding and wire bead versions are rolling on 60tpi.

It helps to have an accurate pump for lower pressures. I have a Specialized MTB pump which is accurate at low numbers (down to single digit) and I am able to confirm it with a digital gauge (SKS).

I later ran them ghetto tubeless with gorilla tape on rims not meant to be run tubeless and they have been a great tire. Even better than before, which was pretty darned good. 

Your son looks like a pretty light guy, maybe try running the pressure down a touch? I'll bet they out perform those Kendas you got. They've got decent volume, and they are pretty supple. Something that's proven pretty hard to find since no companies want to throw a dime at putting out a decent tire for our little men and women.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there to see if it helps at all. I could be totally up a tree, lol!


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

My kid is really light and small for his age, 42" and 35lbs currently. I had the tires at 18lbs, monsoon conditions, lots of sand. I'll try going lower for him. I have a good Lezyne pump that I have tested accurate to 15 psi with digital gauge, I have not gone lower, but it should hopefully not be too far off a couple psi lower.

Next time I take him out to the bike park I'll take both sets of tires and stick just to the front loop so he can ride it twice without exhausting him and I can observe both on the same day.

Thanks for the tip!

I've also considered cutting some of the lugs off. I competed in RC Rockcrawling for years and we always ended up cutting pins\lugs off of our tires for better traction. The small blocks look very similar to a Crawler pin tire.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Oh yeah, for sure those tires will be night and day different with about 5 or 6 or so pounds out of them. My son has these on his Zaskar 20. It came with 1.95's which were just stupid skinny. They were at least foldable. (I just don't understand why these companies are making these anorexic tires in these sizes anymore, but I digress).

I searched out a set of foldable 2.1's and they were sooo much better. I then would watch how his bike was acting on rides and in various terrain and would adjust his pressure till I found what worked all around. I think it was like 12.5 or something...it was interesting that 1/2 a lb. would make a ton of difference in terms of tracking/bounce/rebound etc. 

Like your MX20, his Zaskar was rigid and the tire set up had him searching out and cleaning rocky sections and little techy root drops etc. 

It's because of this that I'm not too worried about the 24" SB8's that are coming on the MX24 TD that should be here by today. I figure that the bigger contact patch with them will be even better with that tread. 

Good luck with them.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

We hit the trails as a family on Saturday! It was my wife's first time and the kid rode circles around her, I was proud! We tried the different tires and have opted to go with the Kenda smokers. They do give up .1" and a some volume to the small block 8's, but he was much more confident with the Smokers on the bike. Ran both sets at 12 psi, that really helped the small blocks, but in our sandy, rooty conditions the kid did much better with the Smokers, so they will stay. I'll put the small blocks on my 20" wheeled kick scooter that I use for urban mushing, they will be a nice upgrade.


----------



## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Kingfisher2011 said:


> Be careful with the bigger pedals. I've got adult size platforms on my youngest's 20" and while he's just fooling around in the culdesac currently if he leans into the turns much he's going to end up with pedal strikes. Unfortunately I can't find a good OE sized platform pedal.


If anyone is looking for great lightweight pedals for kids I can highly recommend AEST pedals. They come in heaps of colours, are very light, last very well and are grippy. They come with Titanium axles and you can also buy replacement axles. For under $50 they are a great buy.
View attachment 1136184

You can pick them up on ebay for a resonable price as well (they also come in oil slick if you want to really make your kid smile). We get ours from Toronto Cycles.


----------



## agge (Jun 19, 2017)

Great info about this bike!
Anyone tried to fit a wider tyre on it? 
How wide is that fork? 
Planning to buy one and upgrade to the specialized 20" x 2.8 tyre.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

If I recall it is just over 2.5", a 2.8" won't fit. I'll verify when I get home tonight.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

The fork is 2.78" at the widest part of the tire.


----------



## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

DickyT said:


> Thank you, I can't wait to get him out on the trails
> 
> Thanks, I really look forward to getting us all out in the dirt! When I was putting it together the first thing I did was dial the brake levers all the way in. On last nights getting familiar ride he had no issues locking up the rear wheel, and when the rear end got light he figured out really quick to be gentle with the front brake. On the riprock he test rode, he had issues with enough hand strength to make the cable disk work well. Hydraulic was certainly the right choice.
> 
> ...


I was just looking at a shorter stem for my daughter and had seen this on Amazon. is this a Truvativ stem like the pictures or some random brand and they just used Truvativ picures?


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

It is marked Truvativ, though I have a feeling it is a chinese counterfeit piece.

I'm still happy with it for the price and it serves my son well. He is far from a little shredder, more of a leisure ride the dirt trails type, so adequate for him.


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

DickyT said:


> It is marked Truvativ, though I have a feeling it is a chinese counterfeit piece.
> 
> I'm still happy with it for the price and it serves my son well. He is far from a little shredder, more of a leisure ride the dirt trails type, so adequate for him.


It doesn't look like any current Truvativ stem and it does scream counterfeit.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Take a look at Wren Stems. Go down to 40mm without looking like a DH chunk, light as all get out, and quite affordable.


----------



## agge (Jun 19, 2017)

thanks!!


----------



## agge (Jun 19, 2017)

thanks! 


DickyT said:


> The fork is 2.78" at the widest part of the tire.


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

I have one of these on order for my daughter, I'm going to go with a 35mm stem to shorten up the reach. Are the stock handlebars 25.4 or 31.8?


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

The stock bars are 31.8.


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I realise this will be unpopular with him but you might try to wean him off that helmet. I've seen the photo a few times and it's just on my mind to say something.

Helmets have 2 main functions .. the first and most obvious is adsorbing impacts but the less obvious is to slide not grip. 

If he lands on his head and the helmet grips and lodges behind a root etc. it can lead to nasty injuries like broken necks. I'm surprised they are sold as you wouldn't think of this in the first instance. I'd have probably done the same .. jnrs first helmet was chosen by colour. And what was in the shop. but I ended up looking into helmet designs later when getting an expensive one for downhill 

If you compare with adult or youths BMX helmets you'll see they are designed to slide on impact making it a glancing blow.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Steve-XtC said:


> I realise this will be unpopular with him but you might try to wean him off that helmet. I've seen the photo a few times and it's just on my mind to say something.
> 
> Helmets have 2 main functions .. the first and most obvious is adsorbing impacts but the less obvious is to slide not grip.
> 
> ...


That helmet has been gone (too small now), and was never worn off-road, only for neighborhood learning. He has a Bell Sidetrack with mips that matches the matte orange on his bike now! It also breathes much better, which is a huge plus in the hot and humid South Florida climate.


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

DickyT said:


> The stock bars are 31.8.


Thanks! Bike is be arriving this week, so I was able to order the correct size stem right away and it should get here at the same time.


----------



## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

deleted


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

DickyT said:


> That helmet has been gone (too small now), and was never worn off-road, only for neighborhood learning. He has a Bell Sidetrack with mips that matches the matte orange on his bike now! It also breathes much better, which is a huge plus in the hot and humid South Florida climate.


No need to justify to me... I'd just have felt bad not mentioning it and something happening. 
On the other hand it might be good if another parents see's it and chooses differently.

I quite honestly wouldn't have given it a seconds thought when we bought his first helmet... indeed as a parent I'd think "if that gets him to wear a helmet why not"


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

zuuds said:


> Thanks! Bike is be arriving this week, so I was able to order the correct size stem right away and it should get here at the same time.


If by any chance they are not then I have had very good experience with cheap carbon bars ... I initially was very sceptical but thought I'd take a chance for 50lb kid .. bought 2 thinking I'd really test they weren't going to break by actually breaking one (at <$15 I figured why not)

When they arrived initial tests indicated they were stronger than I feared... so I cut one set down and stuck them on Jnr's bike and stuck the uncut ones onto my XC bike.

Both have received and coped with multiple crashes ... I did a whole OTB and the stem twisted 90 degrees (over a year ago) and the same bars are still going strong..


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Steve-XtC said:


> No need to justify to me... I'd just have felt bad not mentioning it and something happening.
> On the other hand it might be good if another parents see's it and chooses differently.
> 
> I quite honestly wouldn't have given it a seconds thought when we bought his first helmet... indeed as a parent I'd think "if that gets him to wear a helmet why not"


It was a great first and second helmet, he had them from age 2 to 6 and loved wearing it. It took 1 fall while still on training wheels at about 3 1/2 with the helmet smacking the sidewalk for him to understand the importance. That is where the second one came in, visible crack in the outer shell. And looks wise it is a pretty cool kids helmet, at least to my metal\punk music loving self.

The Bell Sidetrack I am really impressed with. I've owned several Bell helmets over the years and it is nice to see the quality of product is carried into the kids line.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Steve-XtC said:


> If by any chance they are not then I have had very good experience with cheap carbon bars ... I initially was very sceptical but thought I'd take a chance for 50lb kid .. bought 2 thinking I'd really test they weren't going to break by actually breaking one (at <$15 I figured why not)
> 
> When they arrived initial tests indicated they were stronger than I feared... so I cut one set down and stuck them on Jnr's bike and stuck the uncut ones onto my XC bike.
> 
> Both have received and coped with multiple crashes ... I did a whole OTB and the stem twisted 90 degrees (over a year ago) and the same bars are still going strong..


That is great to know, thanks! I might look into a set for him. He is done riding trails for the summer, both he and my wife won't ride again until the weather cools down some. We need some from mom and dad stuff for Christmas, my wife hates Santa getting all the credit. I want to drop some weight from his bike so I'll talk to my wife about bike upgrades for him.


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

Where are yall picking up the Orbea MX 20s from? Online or local? If online can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

You can do a dealer search and see if there are any folks around you that are dealers. On the other hand, I wrote to Orbea Usa to see if they knew of any MX24 Team Disc's left in the country (there weren't a whole lot of them brought in), and they were really helpful in locating what I think was the last one for sale here in the states. I bought it from a shop in Iowa or Kansas (can't remember now) sight unseen. He'd brought in two, and already sold one. 

I'm not sure what the import situation was with the MX20 TD. Hopefully it is better than with the 24. 

Try reaching out to Orbea. Super nice folks and really helpful.


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

poonamibaxter said:


> Where are yall picking up the Orbea MX 20s from? Online or local? If online can someone point me in the right direction?


I got mine from Jensonusa, it was one of 2 left they had in stock.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

I got mine from Jenson as well, was 1 of 2 they had at time of purchase.


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks guys. Appears Jenson is out so I emailed Orbea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

If anyone else is curious, I heard back from Orbea today. They expect to have more in the US in mid to late August.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pluzall (Feb 8, 2005)

*Orbea MX 20 chain line issue*

Hi there

I just got a MX 20 Team non-disc for my daughter . -

Really nice bike - frame is amazing - and made in portugal - that is rare
these days that its not china / taiwan made

It has one major issue and i was wondering if you have same issue - 
When in 1st gear, and my daughter back pedals - chain comes off in front immediately - BIG BUMMER

Also for other people considering this bike - it is 21.5 lbs - 
I expected it to be lighter w alloy frame and fork and nice components

Rims also have not so nice rim joints that create brake knock - hopefully sanding those down will help - but thats where Islabikes does a much better job w machined rims

Anyway - appreciate help / input


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I also just picked what I believe to be one of the last MX Teams (non-disc) for my son's 6th birthday on Sunday. We have only done a couple of rides around the block and he isn't shifting yet. 

In assembling the bike, I noticed the same issue with the chain. I spent a lot of time adjusting the rear derailleur and it still isn't to my satisfaction, but much better than where it started. Hi/Low adjustment seem decent, but the shifting can still be a bit finicky. It seems that the provided gear set might be the absolute limit of what the Shimano Altus might be able to handle. 

I had also considered upgrading to a large tire in the future, but given the clearances, I doubt anything larger that the Kenda 2.1s is going to fit on the bike. 

Do not let any of that dissuade you! Overall I am extremely happy with the purchase and really appreciate what Orbea has to offer at this price point. My son loves the bike and I can not wait to get out onto a trail with him for the first time.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

For finicky shifting with the rear derailleur, I recommend yanking the cablebthats in there currently, and putting a new stainless steel, slick one in. My sons bike had the same issue, but it was due to the cable being slightly unwound (one strand was raised a bit) and that caused drag inside the housing and erratic shifting. You won't see this if its the case because it's inside the housing...if that's even the issue. But I recommend replacing the cable anyway. The stock cable is a lower quality stainless cable and a thinner extruded and slicker offering is available from either your bike shop or online. I also dripped Rock and Roll cable magic into the housing slowly for a good amount of time before I sent the new cable through. Shifting has been dialed.

If the chain is coming off the front when you backpedal, the derailleur is not adjusted properly, the chain line is off (relating to bb spindle width, or both. How much room is between the stays and the crank arms when you position the crank at 3 and 9? I'm betting there's room to drop down a spindle width or two. If you know how to measure chain line, you can do that too. It depends on how many rings you have up front and is measured from the center of the bb shell/or seattube (same thing). The number you are looking for varies depending on rings up front (1, 2&3).

Check this out for understanding chainline. It is talking about 1x setups but still has pertinent info for 2 and 3... https://www.oneupcomponents.com/pag...or-optimal-1x-conversions-boost-and-non-boost

If your derailleur cage is not adjusted right it also could be allowing the chain to drop. People didn't know how to adjust them correctly back when they were on every bike, and now that most bikes are coming out of the schute with one ring up front, shop cats are even worse than back when I was a one. (No offense meant to any shop guys...I was one too. But I could/can dial in a front derailleur and unfortunately that eluded many a wrench...for no good reason) I'll save the front derailleur tutorial unless folks need it. Not complicated but just gotta follow steps just like a rear derailleur.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Also, not sure if the 20" frames are tighter in the stays than the 24's or not, but on my sons 24" we could fit a solid 2.4 in there, with room to spare, if there were some decent ones available. Inside stay to stay, both chain and seat stays is measuring 2.69. That's slightly above the tire where the cross section would end up with a larger cased tire. Currently has Rocket Ron's with room to do the backstroke.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

For reference, the Orbea MX 20 Team and Team Disc are equipped with a 1x8 drivetrain. The front ring is 34T and the rear cassette is a Shimano HG31 11-34T. The derailleur is a Shimano Altus M310.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Ah, I kind of thought they were 1X, but from Pluzall's post I thought the Team might have been geared up front. Shouldn't have assumed.

So that being confirmed, I'd take a look at the chainline on the cranks. I'm betting the bb should be swapped out for a shorter spindled one. All things correct and adjusted, the chain shouldn't be riding off the chaining from backpedaling. The chain angle is pretty harsh due to the shorter chainstays for sure, but that's most likely being exacerbated by incorrect chain line.


----------



## usmceric1 (Mar 14, 2014)

Looking for a disc version. Can't find one anywhere!!! Need to have one mailed out as I am deployed at the moment. So hard to find!


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

usmceric1 said:


> Looking for a disc version. Can't find one anywhere!!! Need to have one mailed out as I am deployed at the moment. So hard to find!


Mid to late August for more to arrive in the US. Mid being now it may trend towards late.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I've been digging into a 20" in bike for a while. If you are doing dirt and getting some downhill, I'd definitely look at a decent air fork like the Spinner 300 or something similar. It definitely is safer. (FYI not like the boat anchor on the RipRock, you were right to avoid that). I've seen my kid hit the downhill slope and the trail roots/rocks on the slope are certainly ripe for tossing him. He can do it with body position today but he has gone over the bars before he was more experienced. A fork will help depending on your terrain. 

Also, I'd find some hydraulic disk brakes. The V-Brakes issue is that they aren't super effective on sketchy terrain and your kid can get fatigue with them if they are braking over extended periods. Kind of have to adjust them a lot too as the brake pads wear. I hate doing it on my kids 16". Plus the short brake handles don't have a long pull...this makes the V-Brake issue even more annoying as the margin for error and how tight your brake pad has to be is slim. 

Your chain could be fixed with a clutched derailer shortcage like the Zee or SRAM GX. 

I got a chance to chat with the owner at Prevelo cycles (I'm kind of ignorant to a lot this) and he was cool enough to talk about some of the kids gear on these bikes. It was enlightening. Especially if your kid will be using his bike for a while/alot/challenging terrain. 

21+ lbs is super heavy for a nice$$ rigid fork 20" bike. That's odd. Isla Beinn is a similar bike at 17lbs.

I'm interested in what you think about those Smoker tires. I agree the Small Block 8 isn't really appealing unless you are just basic trail riding I guess. Maybe the Maxxis MaxxDaddy is better? I don't see a ton of options in 20" tho.

As your kid is just getting into pedaling...I would absolutely get him some light pads. We got the G-Form pads for elbows and knees and they have been awesome. They look cool, but more importantly they are comfortable enough that my son actually uses them. They save our day all the time. I do wish they went down to cover his shins tho...I still need something to help there. Also, gloves have been great too. Any fall seems to always include his hands.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I did a ton of research on 20" bikes as well, prior to placing my order for the MX20 Team. Like, 28 column, 50 row spreadsheet style research.  And I agree with you on the need for wider availability of some decent air fork options at a reasonable price. 99% of what you see on these kids bikes is heavy, garbage "suspension" forks. That is one of the big reasons I went with Orbea over some of the other options. There are a few 20" air fork options, but most of them are as costly as the initial bike purchase or near impossible to find. I really wish Suntour would release a 20" version of their XCR LO Air. I could justify dropping an additional $150 on the bike, but there is no way I could get my wife to even consider spending $445 on something like a Brood air fork on a bike my son may use for three years. 

The other thing to take into consideration if you purchase an MX20 Team, is that the upgrade from V brakes to disc (mechanical or hydraulic) isn't quite so simple. The frame and fork will accommodate the upgrade, but the hubs do not have disc brake mounts. That means you either need to re-lace the with disc brake hubs, or more likely purchase a new custom built wheel set. Just looking at those two upgrades, you can see where purchasing an MX20 Team (and most other kids 20" bikes) with the intention to upgrade isn't all that wise. You're much better served to pay up front for a bike equipped to a level that will satisfy your child (read: yourself). 

I took a look at Prevelo as well. The Alpha Three's biggest advantage is the weight and stand over height. The Zulu Three is nicely equipped for the money, but well beyond what we were willing to spend for a short term bike. In the end, the MX 20 Team just seemed like a better deal for us (because there were no 20 Team Discs available anywhere). 

In terms of protection, we plan to pick up some G-Forms pads for our kiddo. We already scored a great deal on a small Bell Super 2 MIPS which fits him extremely well. If you're shopping kids helmets, I would highly recommend looking at clearance sales for adult smalls. Sizing is often the same and you can find some very nice deals.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

For you guys that are looking at suspension but leery of cost, I'd consider giving Spinner an email. They'll sell you forks direct. 

That said, I don't think they're necessary in the least. Getting the tires to a good pressure ( yes, the small block eights are a fine tire when you don't run them at concrete psi) will do more for your kids handling than a questionable fork on the front end of a hardtail. Volume is the key, with proper pressure. I ran my sons SB8's on his rigid 20" at about 12.5 psi. He rode everything from smooth single track to rocky, rooty tech with nothing but climbs and chunky descents. No problems whatsover. Cleaned stuff that some of the older S-works riding racing crowd would get off and walk. The tires and lack of fork aren't the issue in the least, but they will be if you set them up wrong and look for gear to compensate for technique when they need to be learning it. Look at Spawns Brood tires in 20" for a decent volumes tire with moderate tread. Unfortunately, there just aren't many options available for 20 or even 24 that are worthy tires.

For pads, if they are absolutely necessary, keep looking into finding stuff for kids. G form and Troy Lee Designs are good places to look. The adult small, even women's small, is guaranteed to have them swimming in it if they are at proper body size for a 20".


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

Bike Bling has some of the non disc versions in stock or can get them in a week depending on color preference. I ordered my son one today because I was tired of waiting for the disc version plus he is 40 lbs, we live in Colorado and i still cant see a scenario where v brakes aren't enough for him. 

The guy at Bike Bling said the Disc Version will be available Sept 18th for anyone wondering. A local shop here told me 45 days about two weeks ago so seems legit.


----------



## OKJC (Sep 8, 2017)

I picked up a used (for a weekend vacation) Orbea MX 20 Team for my son today. It was $250 at the local bike shop, which represented a much better value than the entry level Giant XTC Jr., Cannondale, Trek Precalibur, etc. that I could get locally. It felt lighter and appears to be very well built and have higher quality components to boot. It was down to the MX 20 Team and the GT Stomper Prime, and the Orbea seemed like a substantially nicer bike.

He turns five next week, but is very large for his age. It may still be a hair too big, but he was towering over his old 16". He got the blue one with pink accents...so he will definitely stand out.

Anyway, lots of good info here. I really appreciate it. He's stoked about it, and I, like many of you, cherish our family rides. Having him be even more excited about them is going to be great.


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

I got my son's non disc version in this weekend. I was surprised to see the internal routing for the derailleur. I was also surprised to see a 70mm stem, i'll be replacing that with a shorter one. I ran into the problem with the chain wanting to jump off in the lower gears like others and it was pretty obvious the derailleur hanger was bent pretty bad. It is pretty damn flimsy actually. It appears to be the weak link on an otherwise solid build. 

I noticed it has holes for a water bottle cage, has anyone had any luck finding one that fits and will hold some sort of bottle? My kid would be jacked if I could make that functional for him.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

The water bottle location in the main triangle of my sons 24 is not really well placed, to be honest. I'm figuring that on the 20 it might possibly be even worse. I haven't done anything about it yet as I just let him drink from my bottles on rides, but I have been figuring a functional set up could be had with a side loading bottle cage like the Specialized Zee cage and a smaller bottle (21oz). If that isn't enough, something like this should make it work by moving the whole thing down the downtube further and closer to the seat tube a touch... Jenson USA - Online mountain & road bike parts, clothing and accessories shop | Jenson USA

There's also a set of mounts on the underside of the downtube on my sons 24. Not sure I'd use them, and probably better suited for mounting a mud guard.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Link above didn't work. Hopefully this one does.

Jenson USA - Online mountain & road bike parts, clothing and accessories shop | Jenson USA


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

Appreciated. I tried to shove one of my 20oz bottles in there and it aint happening. I'll have to see if i can find a smaller bottle. I have a couple side load cages i can toss on if so.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Hmmm, are there bottles smaller than 20/21oz?


----------



## poonamibaxter (Aug 30, 2013)

Jenson shows a 12oz. I will probably run up to REI and see if i can score one there.


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

We use a hydration bladder ... now Jnr is bigger he can use a small adult rucksack but when he was smaller we just used a dept store kids one and sewed some velcro into the top.. and fastened it round his waist to stop it bouncing about.

A friend has tried all sorts on his kids 20.... including side loading (which falls out of rough stuff) and eventually copied the bladder idea... 

Only problem with bladders I find is the chore of cleaning/drying after you get back.


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

I carry a 3l bladder with me and have my son drink as needed. He has enough issue keeping the bike upright while off road, attention span issues.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Try the Source bladders. Supposedly do not need cleaning as much.


----------



## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

Steve-XtC said:


> Only problem with bladders I find is the chore of cleaning/drying after you get back.


After cleaning, I move mine immediately to the freezer to limit the possibility of bacteria growth.


----------



## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

My son loves his mini-mule. He uses it hiking, MTBing etc. Never complains and allows him to take some snacks, a light wind/rain jacket and store 'treasures' that he finds. Also makes him feel like a big kid - same gear as his dad.

MSRP is $50, but can usually find for less than $30
https://www.camelbak.com/en/packs/R01020--Mini_MULE

Smaller pack, very light and 1.5L bladder. More than enough for a kid. I usually only load 0.5 to 1L for the distances he normally rides. On the couple occasions when he ran dry, he just draws from mine.

I only ever put water in, saves the cleaning and funk production. Also rinse with cleaning tablets. I like the freezer idea though.

db


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Seriously guys...take a look at the Source packs and bladders. I'm not even a pack sort of guy, and these look pretty good. Lot of reviews stating that cleaning was often neglected and there were no issues whatsoever.

edit...there's often an ad in the sidebar.


----------



## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

They make great gear, but I don't recall them making kid specific sizes. Has that changed? That's the only reason I went with the mini mule. Small pack, small bladder - perfect for a 5 year old. Plus, if you get it for $30 you basically get the bladder for free.

For adults, there are better options than CamelBak imho. But it is personal, like debating the best bike manufacturer...

db

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

DigitalBoy said:


> They make great gear, but I don't recall them making kid specific sizes. Has that changed? That's the only reason I went with the mini mule. Small pack, small bladder - perfect for a 5 year old. Plus, if you get it for $30 you basically get the bladder for free.
> 
> For adults, there are better options than CamelBak imho. But it is personal, like debating the best bike manufacturer...
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that I did see kids stuff. And the bladders are not brand specific. Stick in a shopping bag if it floats yer boat.

If I were going to use a bladder, one that has zero taste and doesn't need freezing or tableting would be making a bunch of sense to me. I remember scrubbing mine from years back...using the hose scrubber, and scrubbing out the bladder itself...then having to hang the stupid thing just right to dry it. No thanks.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I've ordered the Orbea MX 20 Team Disc for my son's birthday. I was going back and forth between it and the Yama Jama, but really couldn't justify the extra money for the trails that we have around here, and what we are going to be riding in the next couple years. I will let him ride on it for a while rigid, and then think about getting a suspension fork like the grind air. We do have a lot of roots, but another year of riding rigid won't hurt him I don't think. 

The birthday is actually not until January 1st, but I wanted to make sure they didn't get sold out around Xmas time. I've also ordered the Brood Maxtion tires from Spawn. I was going to get the Kenda Slant Sixes, but from what I could tell they are not tubeless ready, and since the orbea rims are tubeless I might as well go for it. The couple months will give me some time to do the tubeless setup, get a shorter stem (probably the 32mm one that DickyT linked), and possibly a couple other little changes. 

Did anyone find a small water bottle or something to make the batter bottle bosses work? He would be super psyched to have his own water bottle.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Don't get the spinner fork. They are just OK in performance and a manufacturer told me that they really suck to maintain as they aren't standard internally. The Brood El Dorado is unreal tho and has enough travel that you can make it real plush without bottoming out. (we have it on YJ)


----------



## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> I've ordered the Orbea MX 20 Team Disc for my son's birthday. I was going back and forth between it and the Yama Jama, but really couldn't justify the extra money for the trails that we have around here, and what we are going to be riding in the next couple years. I will let him ride on it for a while rigid, and then think about getting a suspension fork like the grind air. We do have a lot of roots, but another year of riding rigid won't hurt him I don't think.
> 
> The birthday is actually not until January 1st, but I wanted to make sure they didn't get sold out around Xmas time. I've also ordered the Brood Maxtion tires from Spawn. I was going to get the Kenda Slant Sixes, but from what I could tell they are not tubeless ready, and since the orbea rims are tubeless I might as well go for it. The couple months will give me some time to do the tubeless setup, get a shorter stem (probably the 32mm one that DickyT linked), and possibly a couple other little changes.
> 
> Did anyone find a small water bottle or something to make the batter bottle bosses work? He would be super psyched to have his own water bottle.


Congrats on the bike! I am still very pleased with ours. I will have to look into those tires, tubeless is the next update for his bike.



svinyard said:


> Don't get the spinner fork. They are just OK in performance and a manufacturer told me that they really suck to maintain as they aren't standard internally. The Brood El Dorado is unreal tho and has enough travel that you can make it real plush without bottoming out. (we have it on YJ)


Great info on the fork! He has a case of the wants (read "I want the front end to move like Daddy's") Christmas is out for him, I've already fulfilled his Santa list and then some, but maybe for a February birthday.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Yeah, I know the brood fork is better, but I would have/should have just bought the YJ to begin with if I was going to spend that kind of money on the fork ($445). Maybe another mid range 20" fork will come out in the next year, or the brood fork will come down in price? 

I heard that flow bikes and maybe one other bike co. was using rebranded spinner forks on their high end builds though, so there must be some way to service them? I wonder if you can order spare parts or service kits from the company when you buy the fork?


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> Yeah, I know the brood fork is better, but I would have/should have just bought the YJ to begin with if I was going to spend that kind of money on the fork ($445). Maybe another mid range 20" fork will come out in the next year, or the brood fork will come down in price?
> 
> I heard that flow bikes and maybe one other bike co. was using rebranded spinner forks on their high end builds though, so there must be some way to service them? I wonder if you can order spare parts or service kits from the company when you buy the fork?


That Orbea is a sweet bike with seemingly nice geometry aside from the 8speed cassette and derailleur. Put that Brood Fork on there and you have a Yama Jama basically. I wouldn't feel bad about that in the least. It's only money .


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Well, I picked it up from the shop and it is a really nice bike. I won't have any action shots until New Years (have to hide it until his birthday), but I thought I would post some info for people who may be interested.

One unfortunate thing (I think) is that the chainring and bashguard have been changed to a 110 bcd 5 bolt ring which is a BMX racing standard. This bolt pattern will only go down to 33T. I am hoping to stick with the 34t, but I did have a backup plan to put a cool 30 or 32t orange narrow wide ring on there if he needed some help up the hills. There is a cheapo chain guide on there too that I would have eliminated if I went with a narrow wide ring.

Also, can you tell if this seatpost is slightly setback? It looks like it is to me. Not a big deal, but I am trying to make the bike as small as possible and was considering a carbon post anyway, so getting rid of a little setback would be nice.








View attachment 1166346


Here is a spreadsheet where I am putting info on the components and some weights for parts I have taken off of the bike. Probably overkill as I don't plan to make a lot of changes, but will be a good record as things break, or if there turn out to be some good bang for the buck upgrades. If anyone has any more info on the components, let me know and I can add it to the spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17vRwjxq7r_ZzdO0sSahINT0mYiPF25lpuOtr7Cj2HTE/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> Well, I picked it up from the shop and it is a really nice bike. I won't have any action shots until New Years (have to hide it until his birthday), but I thought I would post some info for people who may be interested.
> 
> One unfortunate thing (I think) is that the chainring and bashguard have been changed to a 110 bcd 5 bolt ring which is a BMX racing standard. This bolt pattern will only go down to 33T. I am hoping to stick with the 34t, but I did have a backup plan to put a cool 30 or 32t orange narrow wide ring on there if he needed some help up the hills. There is a cheapo chain guide on there too that I would have eliminated if I went with a narrow wide ring.
> 
> ...


Nice bike! Congrats. Your kid is setup with one of the best bikes out there.

FWIW if you are going to be climbing, I'd figure out a way to get down to a 30t chain ring. Your cassette only goes to 34t if I recall and that bigger ring makes it worse. We are on a 30t ring and definitely spend time in the 36t cog when climbing and my kid is a strong climber on a 20" bike. At times I've considered moving to an 11-42 Cassette.

What kind of cranks are they? You might be able to just swap the cranks and get the 30t in the package.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes that post is a setback post. Probably in the range of 15-20mm. You can measure by measuring from centerline of post to middle of length of clamp. 

Pretty sure the 20 inch has always been a 5 arm 110 crank. The thing that throws us all off on that is the picture everyone sees on the site is of the 24, which has the 104 bolt pattern 4 arm cranks. 

I have a set of 155mm 4 arm cranks that just came on my sons cross bike, that you can have for the shipping. They're relieved on the backside but solid far enough down that you could shorten to the 125-135 range with room to spare. Decent cranks, square taper.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Thanks for the info and the offer for the cranks. I will do a little more research on the cranks, but I think I will let him try the 34t before I make any big changes. Also, I would be worried about getting the holes straight in the crank because I don't have access to a drill press or anything like that. 

I did not realize that the picture was the 24 inch bike. I had even been scaling off some measurements and brought it into a CADD program to compare with other bikes, ha. We do not have any long sustained climbs around here, at least on the trails I would be doing with him, and he is a pretty good sprinter if he can get a little momentum going ahead of time. There are a few very steep climbs that we/he will probably be walking anyway for a little while longer, so I will see how it goes.

One thing that I forgot to mention - the LBS had a side loading water bottle cage that would fit on the frame with a specialized KEG "storage vessel". So I picked up one of those (the cage is orange too, although not an exact match) and he can decide if he wants to use it like a cup for water (the lid is water tight) or for some tools and a tube or snacks. I do not think that there is a regular bottle with a spout that will fit in the frame, even if you can find a smaller 12 or 16 oz. bottle. The KEG is very close to hitting the frame.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

No worries on the cranks. Yours if you want em. 


For the cage, is there room to move it down towards the BB? You could make a relocation plate with some aluminum from Lowes or Homies.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

The cranks are Prowheel Forged Ounce 110BCD 127 cranks. I'm guessing they are heavy, but I'm not really too concerned about the weight right now.

Also, no, there is definitely no wiggle room to shift the bottle cage around.


----------



## shandke (Mar 31, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> I've ordered the Orbea MX 20 Team Disc for my son's birthday. I was going back and forth between it and the Yama Jama, but really couldn't justify the extra money for the trails that we have around here, and what we are going to be riding in the next couple years. I will let him ride on it for a while rigid, and then think about getting a suspension fork like the grind air. We do have a lot of roots, but another year of riding rigid won't hurt him I don't think.
> 
> The birthday is actually not until January 1st, but I wanted to make sure they didn't get sold out around Xmas time. I've also ordered the Brood Maxtion tires from Spawn. I was going to get the Kenda Slant Sixes, but from what I could tell they are not tubeless ready, and since the orbea rims are tubeless I might as well go for it. The couple months will give me some time to do the tubeless setup, get a shorter stem (probably the 32mm one that DickyT linked), and possibly a couple other little changes.
> 
> Did anyone find a small water bottle or something to make the batter bottle bosses work? He would be super psyched to have his own water bottle.


I've been going through the same thought processes with the Orbea vs the Spawn Yama Jama. And this will be a bike only for my youngest. That being said, I'm struggling to convince myself to order the Yama Jama. But I'm wondering if I'll be spending the same amount with the upgrades I want to do. I'm thinking shorter stem for sure, better tires, and possibly an air fork down the road. Are you pleased with your purchase? Or if you were doing this all over again, would you just spring for the Yama Jama? (It's going to take some convincing for my son to love this Orbea with orange when he really wants a green zombie bike.)


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Hey, we are pretty happy with the bike. All I have done so far are the tires (brood maxtion, setup tubeless) and stem/handlebar. I really didn't need to do the handlebar, but got a cheap carbon one ($20ish). The tubeless setup was not the easiest, but not terrible. I had to install the tires with a tube first and let it sit for a few hours. Then I removed the tube out of one side and tied a rope around the tire to reduce the volume, and soaped up the bead. I only have an airshot, though, not a compressor.

I was going back and forth a bit on whether I should have just gotten the Yama Jama, but I think it will help him to ride rigid for a little longer. Once he is ready and riding the chunkier trails with a little more speed, then I will think about the fork, and maybe there will be a cheaper or better 20" option at that point.


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Gangly1 said:


> Once he is ready and riding the chunkier trails with a little more speed, then I will think about the fork, and maybe there will be a cheaper or better 20" option at that point.


Suntour came out with this last month:

https://www.srsuntour.com/products/xcm-air-sl-20?variant=5280456572959

There's no reviews available that I could find since it's brand new. I doubt it compares to the Brood fork, but looks pretty decent for $150.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Thanks, I will keep that fork on the radar, for sure. It would be interested to see how it compares to the grind air, etc. Even with that fork and the tires, it would keep the price pretty far below the Yama Jama.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Keep in mind that if you plan to upgrade to a full suspension with this bike, its VASTLY better to just get the Yama Jama. The cost just isn't that far off and the improvements are very significant in impactful ways for every rider, not just Groms. Here's why:

1- Orbea Cassette is limited at 11-34 and only 8 speeds, YJ is 10 speed and 11-36


2- Chainring is all wrong on Orbea, ideal would be 28t. YJ is 30t and Orbea is 34t. My kids a beast of a climber and he could still use another gear or two for sure. The 30t works well enough but a 34 would not even with the extra range on YJ cassette.

3- Components on Orbea are weak compared to SRAM GX on YJ. They won't last like the GX will.

4- Fork isn't going to compare to Brood, trust me. Its not that the XCR is bad, its just that the Brood fork is just that damn good

5- TIRES!! The Brood Maxtions are insanely nice. Like really, really nice and very light for their size and are very tough. I'm amazed at the life they have still vs the Kenda stuff. They are like adult plus tires without the baggage. Traction means less crashes on legit trains and big berm runs

6- I think the YJ is roughly 2lbs lighter

7- Wellgo Pedals on YJ are the ticket paired with Van's shoes. We've taken pedal crashes on landings and other things because of slips...its just like an adult. Better pedal system means more confidence and safer biking. Orbea just has resin stuff.

8- Geo is better. 68degree head angle on spawn is great, especially if your kid is going to really ride hard.

9- COLORS!! (a big deal)

The Orbea is a wonderful bike and everyone should buy one but if you are planning to upgrade it just to save a little money it quickly isn't a great value.


----------



## Rooty (Feb 22, 2018)

*2018 MX 20 Disk has 9-speed cassette*

Great insights on upgrading versus going with the Yama Jama. I agree that upgrading the Orbea may end up costing the same in the end as just spending more upfront for more overall quality. Plus, the resale value and ability to sell quickly will be better with the Spawn. Both sweet bikes though. I'm still not sure about whether or not suspension forks vs. rigid are the way to go at 5 to 6 years old for skill development, fun, or safety, but it seems like the Brood fork takes that argument to another level.

Just a note that the UK home-site, as well as other European sites, show the 2018 MX 20 as having a 9-speed cassette vs. the 8-speed coming out in March:

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/mx-20-team-disc-18


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I ordered that very bike for my son. His older brother had a Speci Hotrock and loved it back then (all I changed was tires & tubes). 
What I liked about the Orbea is the higher build quality of the components, especially the drivetrain which seems to have improved from 2017 to 2018.
The bike will get some different tires I guess, mounted tubeless and I'll reduce the spokes.

I'm rather unsure about suspension. In theory, the bike should work better without suspension. On the other hand, kids love it...


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Here is a crank/chainring combo that has been a huge improvement over stock - a spawn 127mm 104bcd crankset and a $12 30T narrow-wide chainring from Ebay. Since the chainring was 9-10-11 speed, I also installed a new 9 speed chain, but I probably could have gotten away with the stock 8 speed chain.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

What part is an improvement to you? Weight, gearing, length?


----------



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Radical_53 said:


> What part is an improvement to you? Weight, gearing, length?


Gearing and length. The bike is big for my daughter, so the shorter cranks help with the fit and the chainring helps with steeper terrain. I didn't bother weighing the cranks, but they're probably a few grams lighter.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Did the spawn crank come with a 32T NW ring? I'm considering getting the same cranks for my son's bike. One of the orange NW rings would be really nice looking, but hard to find any cheap ones.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

zuuds said:


> Gearing and length. The bike is big for my daughter, so the shorter cranks help with the fit and the chainring helps with steeper terrain. I didn't bother weighing the cranks, but they're probably a few grams lighter.


Thanks for the input! The newest version of the MX Team has a 127mm crank now too, but it comes with a 34t chainring.
On the other hand, they now have a 11-36t 9-speed cassette. Could be a tad too fast, I'll see.


----------



## Rooty (Feb 22, 2018)

Radical_53 said:


> Thanks for the input! The newest version of the MX Team has a 127mm crank now too, but it comes with a 34t chainring.
> On the other hand, they now have a 11-36t 9-speed cassette. Could be a tad too fast, I'll see.


It looks like the 9-speed cassette won't be out until 2019 in the U.S. It is available mid-March in Europe. This is from an Orbea rep:

"The 2018 with the 1x9 is not available in the US this year.

Children-sized bikes have to go through an intensive round of testing to be sold in the US which is why you'll see model years carry over a year or so for a lot of brands."


----------



## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

Congrats and what great photos of your little dude. I would say that the bike is indeed quite big for him, though of course he'll grow into it before you know it. If you want his skills to progress more quickly, get him a 16" BMX and start taking him to your local skatepark. He will ride his MTB for distance riding and at the MTB park. Get him some knee/shin guards, also (shin strikes from metal studded pedals are such a bummer), and consider taking him to a BMX track. He will love it and he will progress much faster at learning how to control his bike by riding a smaller BMX and riding at the skatepark and/or BMX track. Then he will transfer those skills right over to the MTB. It will take him longer to learn bike skills (like bunnyhop, how to jump, etc.) on a big wheeled MTB, and that geo will encourage seated riding which is good for fitness but not for progressing skill levels. I've been taking my 9 year old to the skatepark and her skill is taking off. It's awesome. Good luck and high five to you for being a great Dad.


----------



## passingthrough (Mar 22, 2018)

zuuds said:


> Here is a crank/chainring combo that has been a huge improvement over stock - a spawn 127mm 104bcd crankset and a $12 30T narrow-wide chainring from Ebay. Since the chainring was 9-10-11 speed, I also installed a new 9 speed chain, but I probably could have gotten away with the stock 8 speed chain.
> 
> View attachment 1185710


Zuuds, thanks for the good info on this modification. I have an MX20 Team Disc on order for my inseam-challenged 7 year old and just ordered this Spawn 104bcd crankset (and their Maxtion tires so we can go tubeless) and the same $12 "Snail" 30t chainring. I saw your other post about requiring a 68 x 110mm bottom bracket for the Spawn cranks so I have one of those coming too.

It's a shame Orbea slaps a 34t chainring with a fairly low range cog set on this kid bike, but this upgrade should make everything right for those of us who have hills to climb.

Thanks again for sharing!


----------



## maxflia (Aug 18, 2016)

Are there any other cranks that will work with the MX20 other then the Spawn? I would like to drop the chain ring down to a 30.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I am assuming they are square taper cranks on Orbea? Is that right? Our Spawn Cranks were spindle direct mount but Spawn sells their 127mm stuff square taper too. 

If they are square tapered (cotterless), you can find some on ebay but they aren't very standard and some have a near permanent chainring. I'd stick with Spawn stuft as it's known quantity and they focus on supporting standard parts for kids MTB better than any kids company I've seen yet for this 20" size. 

Chainring wise, i'd go 28t for sure. We climb a lot on our Spawn YJ 20" and even with the 11-36 10sp, we could still use more help (my kid is a beast too). That is with us running a 30t chainring. Top speed performance just isn't that important typically.


----------



## passingthrough (Mar 22, 2018)

The Spawn crankset is square taper and is 104bcd so the lowest you can go is 30t unfortunately. It ships with a 32t ring, but a $12 30t chainring can be had (goo.gl/uGorfN). With the Spawn cranks you'll also want to replace the Orbea bottom bracket with one that is ~110mm wide to keep the chain line working well so that's another $15 - $20.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

The regular bb is square taper. I simply put in an old FSA bb with titanium spindle that I had lying around.
I‘m still not done building the bile, as usual the bearing adjustment is a mess with kids‘ bikes.
Hopefully today I’ll find out whether these Schwalbe tires are fine with tubeless or not.




Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

So... I (ok, my son, but I have to deal with it!) was getting a lot of chain drops with the stock drivetrain, so I got the spawn cranks with the 110mm bb. It is much better now, but I am not happy with how sloppy the shifting is and how close the derailleur gets to the wheel, etc. in the low gear. Yes, it was somewhat bent from crashing and laying it down, but even before that and after fixing it, it is not the best. I am not a pro at adjusting the derailleurs, but never have a problem on my own bikes. 

Will the Zee 10 speed derailleur (32-36 speed) have a shorter cage/smaller pulleys, or are there any other good, reasonably cheap options (hopefully with a clutch)? Also, has anybody used a derailleur guard?


----------



## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> So... I (ok, my son, but I have to deal with it!) was getting a lot of chain drops with the stock drivetrain, so I got the spawn cranks with the 110mm bb. It is much better now, but I am not happy with how sloppy the shifting is and how close the derailleur gets to the wheel, etc. in the low gear. Yes, it was somewhat bent from crashing and laying it down, but even before that and after fixing it, it is not the best. I am not a pro at adjusting the derailleurs, but never have a problem on my own bikes.
> 
> Will the Zee 10 speed derailleur (32-36 speed) have a shorter cage/smaller pulleys, or are there any other good, reasonably cheap options (hopefully with a clutch)? Also, has anybody used a derailleur guard?


I went through this on the 2nd outing with my girls on their brand new Spawns. Rock drop off, endo, bikes back wheel up-over-slam onto the drive train side. And me without a tool (because I thought "what could possibly go wrong?")

Go order 2 derailleur hangers. One to swap out this one. And one for the next time he lays it down. I think they're about $12. Which is cheaper than the alternative. Have a bike shop re-align the existing one for $20-30. Hangers can be straightened 1-2x before they break. Depending upon how badly they are bent. Yours may be twisted slighlty and that will lead to chain deflection.

The Zee (Free Ride) derailleur is a good option and it's mid cage. It will work. I think it's probably the cheapest with a clutch. Unless you want to temp fate by mixing brands with a SRAM GX.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

SactoGeoff said:


> Go order 2 derailleur hangers. One to swap out this one. And one for the next time he lays it down. I think they're about $12. Which is cheaper than the alternative. Have a bike shop re-align the existing one for $20-30. Hangers can be straightened 1-2x before they break. Depending upon how badly they are bent. Yours may be twisted slighlty and that will lead to chain deflection.
> 
> The Zee (Free Ride) derailleur is a good option and it's mid cage. It will work. I think it's probably the cheapest with a clutch. Unless you want to temp fate by mixing brands with a SRAM GX.


Actually I did buy an extra hanger with the bike. I just eye balled it and it seems like the cage arms themselves might be bent, and not the hanger. I will switch the hanger out and see if that works before I buy anything else.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I’ve seen zero chain drops so far. The bike needed some adjustments out of the box though. Shifting was already pretty good, but all the bearings ran too tight. 
The rims do work fine tubeless, even with the much lighter Mow Joe tires I used. Great improvement for the little guy as it seems 
What I didn’t like was how the shifter indicator blocks the adjustment of the brake levers. I would’ve loved to move them further inside.
So far, the bike sits at 8.9kg, including pedals, with some minor changes (tires, tubeless, bottom bracket & shorter stem). 
It’s climbing really well and my son wants to ride it all the time. He didn’t look back to his older bike once.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Super bummed to see that Orbea is now listing a 72* HTA in the geo chart for this bike. I swear they listed 68* a year or so ago. Sofa king dumb.


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Super bummed to see that Orbea is now listing a 72* HTA in the geo chart for this bike. I swear they listed 68* a year or so ago. Sofa king dumb.


agreed 100%


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

What’s the point? Honestly. 72 degrees used to be a regular HTA for hardtails as far as I’m aware.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Radical_53 said:


> What's the point? Honestly. 72 degrees used to be a regular HTA for hardtails as far as I'm aware.
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


I guess some of it depends on how buff the downhill runs your kid is riding. My 5yr was DEFINITELY saved from going over the bars more than few times when sessioning drops and hitting some gap jumps. Kids have poor form and even if they don't, they get tired and screw it up sometimes. Having a more forgiving HTA saves a crash which spare their confidence too so they can keep pushing it.

Also consider their small wheel size man. 20in wheel gets hung up real easy on some of the blues and blacks we run. Wheel size makes it even worse. To think that a 72d would be an ideal mountain bike for a kid riding real adult trails is what keeps kids bikes from evolving beyond just simple sit and pedal trail bikes. ER trips are expensive, plus there is hardly any downside to a modern Geo with 68d HTA so why not?


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

^^Maybe he needs a dropper Svinyard? LOL! Just kidding. 


Anyway, if accuracy means anything, I highly doubt that the head tube is actually 72 degrees. 

My sons MX24 had the spec sheet saying that the HA was 66 degrees, which was pure unicorn flatulence. I could tell from the pic of it on the screen that it wasn't 66 degrees. Once in hand, I measured it and it was more like 70. 

The geo sheets on Orbea's site are dubious at best.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, I guess I wouldn’t want my kids to ride larger drops or gaps anyhow.
My eldest son even got along with a Specialized Hotrock back in the days (he rides everything now with his RM Altitude).



Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## passingthrough (Mar 22, 2018)

Gangly1 said:


> I got the spawn cranks with the 110mm bb. It is much better now, but I am not happy with how sloppy the shifting is and how close the derailleur gets to the wheel, etc. in the low gear. Yes, it was somewhat bent from crashing and laying it down, but even before that and after fixing it, it is not the best.


I don't know if this helps, but the original poster who went with the Spawn cranks with the 110mm bb had also replaced the Spawn 32t chainring with the Snail 30t narrow-wide ring that is bit more inset when installed (there are stand-offs on the chainring). That's what I did also and so far have no troubles with shifting.

BTW, for anyone keeping the original bottom bracket, you may want to remove it and make sure both sides are well greased. I couldn't remove mine so had my bike shop do it and they had to hammer it to get it to finally free it up and unscrew. The found that only one side had been greased so it had already seized up. Destroyed the BB but no matter as the $20 Shimano UN55 I was putting in is so much better anyway. Shoddy installation by Orbea there!


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

passingthrough said:


> BTW, for anyone keeping the original bottom bracket, you may want to remove it and make sure both sides are well greased. I couldn't remove mine so had my bike shop do it and they had to hammer it to get it to finally free it up and unscrew. The found that only one side had been greased so it had already seized up. Destroyed the BB but no matter as the $20 Shimano UN55 I was putting in is so much better anyway. Shoddy installation by Orbea there!


That's probably good advice for any new bike! Indeed not just the BB but I'd strip down anything came pre-assembled on a new bike... there are lots of parts and it's easy for any of them to be mis fitted or dry assembled...

eg. you might find the headset is not properly fitted and you'd not notice until later then find it harder to get a warranty replacement etc. ... and forks/shock can need oil replacement if they were sitting in stock etc.

Obviously the same applies to a used bike except the warranty bit! 
This isn't specific to kids bikes or even complete bikes... I've had brand new wheel sets I had to rebuild... etc. I got a set of pedals last year... and 1st ride one developed a squeak and click... stripped it down and regreased...and its been working perfectly ever since. In this case I think it was simply not correctly tightened... but basically I stopped being surprised by shoddy assembly...

However, regarding the actual BB.... a friend and I rebuilt a old and abused MX24. 
I had a spare UN55 sat around... so we pulled the BB even though it was working perfectly. (and it was about the only thing on the bike that was but the whole used bike cost about the same as a scent tire so ..... )

We weighed the 2 BB's are I was pretty amazed it weighed significantly less than a UN55... (and I almost always recommend switching whatever BB on kids square taper for an UN55) ....


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I had the same issue with the BB removal, and it definitely stripped some of the splines on the old bb and may have deformed the threaded area also. Basically it involved me putting my foot on the wrench and jumping up and down to get it off. I went with the UN55 as well. Everything has been pretty good since I put the cranks on, but the chainline does look like it would be a bit better further to the center, so I will look into the snail ring. Thanks!.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Smaller gears work fine here with a narrow BB, but the chain may run the „bash guard“ on the higher gears like 8 & 9.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Gangly1 said:


> I had the same issue with the BB removal, and it definitely stripped some of the splines on the old bb and may have deformed the threaded area also.


Was this new straight from the shop ?

If it was I'd have had it straight back in...

I'd still check on any new bike anyway because once you used it your going to struggle proving it wasn't you.

Two sounds less like co-incidence and from memory the UK one I removed didn't have any issues. Sadly this sort of thing seems increasing almost regardless of manufacturer.

Much as I'd want to go straight out I'd strip down any new bike as I just don't trust the modern assembly processes. I did see a video that Canyon are using a digital torque wrench now and record every bolt on a bike BEFORE shipping and who assembled and checked that specific bolt. Although they are direct sales it might be they have discovered what the others should be doing ... as I can't see them doing this unless they were getting a lot of returns.

For Orbea they probably have some post import - pre-shipping to shops assembly where stuff like this gets short-cut???


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

He had been on it a couple months and I didn't check the BB when I first got it. I would've brought it into the shop, but they immediately went out of business after I got the bike.


----------



## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Gangly1 said:


> He had been on it a couple months and I didn't check the BB when I first got it. I would've brought it into the shop, but they immediately went out of business after I got the bike.


Annoying .... though at least you saved it! 
I really don't trust any of these modern (super low budget) assembly processes.
I've had wheels, pedals etc. all come half-properly assembled despite the manufacturing being excellent.

Over here (in the EU) there is a different import duty for bikes (20%) vs bike parts (7%) so a huge incentive to assemble in the EU to save a few percentages. 
(Not sure how your import duty is structured)

This (IMHO) leads to manufacturers getting some factory assembly of frame and parts (and saves 13% import duty) but obviously it's then done on a super-cheap budget.

It's really a shame when otherwise excellent bikes and good components are then let down on the pre-assembly. Missing grease and not being tightened to the correct torque are (I believe) consequences of shaving a few percent off the cost.

That said ... at least you can disassemble and reassemble vs the other habit of just speccing cheap and nasty components!

My Sons Cannondale I got end of line heavily discounted but came with nothing properly usable except the frame and forks... the wheels were actually OK but didn't have disk hubs... The frame is truly excellent (though very XC geo).. such a waste.

I did get 6 mo out of the headset ... then just put a "proper one" in when it seized. 
Everything else was just trash...

On the other hand the Orbea comes with pretty good spec... (and a nice frame) but presumably let down by in country "cheap as possible" assembly ??? (I'm guessing as the EU ones don't seem to have this problem)... Obviously if the people doing the assembly are not paid much they are not that motivated to do a good job when no-one is checking.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Definitely a good idea. So far, any kids bike I bought us terribly adjusted bearings. Better to check right away (or replace, of course).


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Radical_53 said:


> What's the point? Honestly. 72 degrees used to be a regular HTA for hardtails as far as I'm aware.


It's 2018, MTBs aren't road bikes with knobby tires any more.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

RMCDan said:


> It's 2018, MTBs aren't road bikes with knobby tires any more.


That's a shame... just kidding.

That said, they really weren't before either.


----------



## passingthrough (Mar 22, 2018)

Steve-XtC said:


> It's really a shame when otherwise excellent bikes and good components are then let down on the pre-assembly. Missing grease and not being tightened to the correct torque are (I believe) consequences of shaving a few percent off the cost.
> 
> That said ... at least you can disassemble and reassemble vs the other habit of just speccing cheap and nasty components!


Agreed on the assembly. Regarding some part selections though, on the off chance anyone from Orbea ever reads forums like this, please charge a bit more such as $600 list instead of $539 list for the Team Disc model and get the final touches right. On a 20" kid bike, the front ring should be 30t (or 32t at most). Swapping out the Orbea parts for new Spawn cranks, a CNC'd 30t chainring, and a quality bottom bracket set me back $90 but I'd rather have paid that to Orbea to save the hassle.

I splurged $80 more on the really nice Brood Maxtion tubeless tires and that's another place Orbea could bump up the MX kids line to the next level and compete with more expensive offerings, by shipping with better and tubeless ready tires like Spawn is doing.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Well, I went ahead and put this ugly thing on, lol. I realigned the hanger and it is shifting great now (it was way off). My son just likes to crash his bike a lot. You might be able to see the scrapes on the derailleur in the photo. Seriously, he watches videos on YouTube and then wants to recreate the crashes. Or else he will be racing his 3 yo brother around and around the loop with a little jump ramp in our yard trying to take the turns as fast as possible. Once he gets on the trail he is fine, but I am going to see if this will keep the derailleur safe in the yard. I will update this thread if it F's up the dropouts or something!


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

RMCDan said:


> It's 2018, MTBs aren't road bikes with knobby tires any more.


Really... those angles were fine for the first 20 years I rode MTBs, and I guess it started the whole thing.
Just because now they love huge tires, long reach and slack angles doesn't mean older bikes are any worse.

@passingthrough: Well, is there any bike where one doesn't have to swap any parts?

I went with different tires too because the Schwalbe Mow Joe is so much lighter. Especially tubeless, it's a real beast compared to the stock setup.
The other stuff is more of a matter of taste though. The drivetrain is fine and the slowest gear is slow enough to fall over  
My biggest gripe, apart from the bad initial setup, are the brake levers. My son has huge hands and still they're regular grown-up parts, too big for a kid to grab easily over an extended period of time.

Oh btw., I found the grips to be a bit too large also. ESI Racer's Edge fit nicely


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Radical_53 said:


> Really... those angles were fine for the first 20 years I rode MTBs, and I guess it started the whole thing.
> Just because now they love huge tires, long reach and slack angles doesn't mean older bikes are any worse.


Well, we're all entitled to our opinion. But, no one in their right mind would choose a late '90s Stumpjumper over, say, a Honzo, even if you put all the Honzo's modern components on the Stumpy.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

RMCDan said:


> Well, we're all entitled to our opinion. But, no one in their right mind would choose a late '90s Stumpjumper over, say, a Honzo, even if you put all the Honzo's modern components on the Stumpy.


Not everyone needs the same thing. I see people absolutely all the time riding way more bike than the trails they frequent even remotely require. And I think that's a bit ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with having a lot of bike, but the constant mantra that if you don't have this much travel, or that angle HA, or this seat post is starting to pile up and attract flies.

Especially when I will gaurrantee in reality, that the riding the folks are doing that are constantly shaming others for not having the right bike, is nothing short of unimpressive.

If a person wants a bike for pointing down, by all means...get it.

If a person wants a bike for tighter handling and stretching out the miles, by all means...get it.

If a person wants to ride the opposite bike on the trails that the bike is best intended for...by all means...go nuts.

You know how many people on the hill ride their powder boards and powder skis when there is not a bit of powder left...like when it hasn't dumped in weeks and there's nary a stash anywhere, and they're just riding groomers on gear that just doesn't handle as well? TONS, precious tons. But they're having fun. I get more miffed at the A-holes that act like they're better than everyone else on the hill because they've got the 'look', or the right gear. 95% of the time, it's those folks that seriously suck, and they're compensating for not being as good as they think they are in their heads.

Quite a bit like mountain biking in my experience.


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Nice rant with plenty of truth in there, but it's beside my point. That's why I chose two HTs to compare against and took components out of the equation. Pick a trail, any trail, and the Honzo (et al.) is going to own the modern-spec'ed 90s Stumpy up and down. To say that modern frame designs, HTs included, aren't objectively better than 20 year old designs is silly. Sheesh, even dedicated XC race bikes (S-Works Epic, Procaliber 9.9 SL, XTC Advanced 29, etc.) are running 69-70* HTAs, the shortest possible chainstays, wide bars/short stem, etc.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

RMCDan said:


> Nice rant with plenty of truth in there, but it's beside my point. That's why I chose two HTs to compare against and took components out of the equation. Pick a trail, any trail, and the Honzo (et al.) is going to own the modern-spec'ed 90s Stumpy up and down. To say that modern frame designs, HTs included, aren't objectively better than 20 year old designs is silly. Sheesh, even dedicated XC race bikes (S-Works Epic, Procaliber 9.9 SL, XTC Advanced 29, etc.) are running 69-70* HTAs, the shortest possible chainstays, wide bars/short stem, etc.


Not really a rant. More of an observation. And a succinct one if I may.

I just think it is off topic and no offense, a bit smug to start comparing an Orbea kids XC bike to an M2 or a road bike, and then further create a pissing match with a Honzo...because the Orbea chart "says" that the HA is 72 degrees, which I really strongly feel is probably not even correct. However, even if it was, the bikes intended use is XC. Not hucking lines at the lift park. There are other bikes for that.

And I totally disagree with the M2 getting owned by the Honzo. I think it has to do with the pilot more than anything. Putting all of the modern parts on the M2 would essentially make it an M5, and don't take this the wrong way, but I would eat your lunch if I were on the M5, and you on the Honzo

Head angle would just mean that the riding style would have to be different. Not better or worse, just different. We all rode those "gawd-awful" bikes on trails that were much harder than they are now. We did just fine. But that's for a different thread all toghether.


----------



## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks. Yes, I’d second that it’s more of a matter of taste than anything else.
If one really wants to give the kids more confidence downhill, for example, get a bike with bigger wheels. Some companies sell bikes small enough for an5 year old that have 24“ wheels for example (just like a 29er for smaller adults, concept-wise).
Also, of course you can buy a 2000$ bike for a kid. They’ll have fun for sure.
I’d rather save the money and take them somewhere though 

I stick to my initial experience with this bike though: it’s a great kids bike out of the box, adjusted, and even nicer if you exchange some parts.
Overall, I didn’t see any real „junk“ though. Other bikes I bought for my older son had bbs that weighed a ton, or had really bad bearings, sloppy shifting. This one really works fine.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

I think if you want your kid to have more confidence on the bike, it's not about the head angle. It's about developing their skills. 

Slack head angle bike are floppy and harder to maneuver at low speeds. Unless your kid is shredding and already advanced, he will probably be at low speeds most of the time where the steeper HA will make his bike easier to steer. The slack HA you guys are craving is probably actually worse for your child.


----------



## studentmartin (Apr 3, 2018)

Whats the stock weight of this bike? cheers!


----------



## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

Can't seem to find this bike any more. My LBS says it's discontinued, and won't be replaced.

Any availability online?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

majorjake said:


> Can't seem to find this bike any more. My LBS says it's discontinued, and won't be replaced.
> 
> Any availability online?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Where are you from?

In the USA website still listed:

https://www.orbea.com/us-en/bicycles/kids/mx-kids/cat/mx-20-team-disc

Same for Europe:

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/kids/mx-kids/cat/mx-20-team-disc-19

Gesendet von meinem GS370 mit Tapatalk


----------



## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

eTrex_FSR said:


> Where are you from?
> 
> In the USA website still listed:
> 
> ...


I'm in the USA, contacted one of their listed dealers. That was the response.

I can't find any from a reputable online vendor either.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

*Custom Orbea MX 20 Team Disc build out of Australia.*

Please God don't let my daughter see this post...

I wanted to share this gorgeous build that I saw online.

The buiild was done by Davey Sprocket

The paint was done by Bikes By Steve.

Here's a link to the post on instagram, a few details but not a full build outline.


----------



## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

Gangly1 said:


> Well, I went ahead and put this ugly thing on, lol. I realigned the hanger and it is shifting great now (it was way off). My son just likes to crash his bike a lot. You might be able to see the scrapes on the derailleur in the photo. Seriously, he watches videos on YouTube and then wants to recreate the crashes. Or else he will be racing his 3 yo brother around and around the loop with a little jump ramp in our yard trying to take the turns as fast as possible. Once he gets on the trail he is fine, but I am going to see if this will keep the derailleur safe in the yard. I will update this thread if it F's up the dropouts or something!
> 
> View attachment 1194536


Where did you find it? Share a link?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

majorjake said:


> Where did you find it? Share a link?


Not mine, but plenty show up if you search for derailleur protector :
https://www.google.com/search?q=derailleur+protector&tbm=shop

Most have a pretty basic design that everyone copies - if you want a cheap one, aliexpress is the way to go;
ttps://m.aliexpress.com/wholesale/Derailleur-protector.html


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

majorjake said:


> Where did you find it? Share a link?


It was not anything special. I'm sure I got it on Amazon. It may have been avenir brand or no brand. We haven't had any issues since installing, but he hasn't been on the bike much lately due to rain and BMX racing taking over.


----------



## purplesheep (Apr 7, 2019)

Hi - have just purchased a Orbea mx 20 from Tredz - when it arrived the chain was off in the box, popped it back on and gave it a few rotations and it seemed ok.... until I noticed that ANY back pedal - we are talking less than a quarter rotation causes the chain to fall off! Its so bad if you “lift” one pedal to push off the chain drops in 1st gear - is there an adjustment or is there something wrong ?


----------



## majorjake (Sep 5, 2017)

purplesheep said:


> Hi - have just purchased a Orbea mx 20 from Tredz - when it arrived the chain was off in the box, popped it back on and gave it a few rotations and it seemed ok.... until I noticed that ANY back pedal - we are talking less than a quarter rotation causes the chain to fall off! Its so bad if you "lift" one pedal to push off the chain drops in 1st gear - is there an adjustment or is there something wrong ?


Needs an adjustment.
We got the 9sp derailleur, and it's pretty tricky to get aligned given the gear range vs how short the chainstays are. I think a 7sp would have been fine.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Go to Park tool and search for Rear Derailleur setup video walk through. Everything you need to know will be there.


----------



## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

Yep, if the basic adjustment doesn't work, you can check the hanger alignment (kinda expensive tool, or bring it to a shop). I was having a lot of issues with our mx20, but after I aligned the derailleur hanger and bought a derailleur guard everything has been good. Still lusting after a zee short cage ten speed clutch derailleur and shifter and cassette, but not going to bother with it unless one falls in my lap.


----------



## Caliadventuremama (Apr 11, 2020)

passingthrough said:


> Zuuds, thanks for the good info on this modification. I have an MX20 Team Disc on order for my inseam-challenged 7 year old and just ordered this Spawn 104bcd crankset (and their Maxtion tires so we can go tubeless) and the same $12 "Snail" 30t chainring. I saw your other post about requiring a 68 x 110mm bottom bracket for the Spawn cranks so I have one of those coming too.
> 
> It's a shame Orbea slaps a 34t chainring with a fairly low range cog set on this kid bike, but this upgrade should make everything right for those of us who have hills to climb.
> 
> Thanks again for sharing!


Anyone find other options for this modification than spawn?


----------



## christianr (Jul 21, 2014)

Guys can anyone post a pic of the rear tire clearance? Anyone with the Rocket Ron?
Thanks!


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Caliadventuremama said:


> Anyone find other options for this modification than spawn?


I think the Spawn crank setup is the best deal going. Trust me, I looked everywhere for other options.

I just completed this modification (with the stock Spawn chain ring) on my son's MX20 Team a couple of weeks ago and it has been pretty solid so far. I wanted to try it with the Spawn ring first to see if the Snail 30T ring is necessary. So far, it isn't. He still gets an occasional chain drop, but no where close to as many as he did before. I also removed the stock chain guide and my boy can quickly and easily reset the chain now on the odd occasion that he does get a drop.

Spawn actually shipped me two sets of the cranks by accident, and I am shipping the second set back to them today.

Next up a set of Spank Spoon Grom lock-on grips to replace the constantly slipping stock grips.


----------

