# Are BB7's heavy?



## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

I am curious if BB7's are that much heavier than Hydro's ?

BB7 Caliper 200G
Rotor 110G
Lever 80G. I know this can be lighter.
Bolt's?
Adapter?
Cables?

They are so user freindly and with slick cables they are really smooth. I am having a hard time convince to Hydro,s are they that much lighter?


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## cutthroat (Mar 2, 2004)

The BB7s are around 1/2 a pound heavier than a light set of hydros like Formulas or Martas - you need to factor in the housing and cables as well as the caliper and rotor. I went through this exercise in detail when I swapped out to K18s. BB7s are very good brakes, but heavier if that matters.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

cutthroat said:


> The BB7s are around 1/2 a pound heavier than a light set of hydros like Formulas or Martas - you need to factor in the housing and cables as well as the caliper and rotor. I went through this exercise in detail when I swapped out to K18s. BB7s are very good brakes, but heavier if that matters.


Ditto! :thumbsup:


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

Who makes the K17's. What about the xtr or new xt's I am going to run a 1x9 with the sti shifting.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

cutthroat said:


> The BB7s are around 1/2 a pound heavier than a light set of hydros like Formulas or Martas - you need to factor in the housing and cables as well as the caliper and rotor. I went through this exercise in detail when I swapped out to K18s. BB7s are very good brakes, but heavier if that matters.


What kind of weight did youi end up with the Formula K18 system. I am looking at those for as a weight concerned (but not weenie) build.

G


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

imtb said:


> I am curious if BB7's are that much heavier than Hydro's ?


I would call this a definitive answer, except that YOU have to decide what constitutes "heavy." At least it will set you down the right path.

Can you tell I like Avid Mechs?

Get your calculator!


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

Nate: Thats awesome all the pictures and scales.

What does it all really mean. Do you think the BB7's are a contender?

let me know.

Thanks,
mike


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

imtb said:


> Nate: Thats awesome all the pictures and scales.
> 
> What does it all really mean. Do you think the BB7's are a contender?
> 
> ...


Ahhh! That's my point in all this... it's for you to decide, and the information is all there.

I'm repeating myself for the _n_th time, but I've never met a hydro that has wowed me into thinking my Avids don't measure up. That's not to say there aren't more powerful hydraulic brakes available, but power is something I still have in reserve with the Avid mechs. In fact, they offer much greater ability to fine tune than any hydro at any price.

Same goes for modulation and even lever feel. I can pretty much dial these in for whatever I want.

I'm not hating on hydros, I just prefer the stone age simplicity of a cable actuated brake. Simple as that.

I'm currently in a situation where I can put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I'll be installing BB7s on our new (to us) tandem, in place of the inadequate Magura hydraulic rim brakes. I'll be hedging my bet by using 220mm rotors, but I'm hoping for the same solid, trouble-free performance I've experienced on my solo bikes over the years. This in the face of Magura's powerful Gustav hydro, which is supposedly the be-all and end-all in tandem-rated stopping power.

The BB7s, by the way, were rated by Avid for tandem use. Not many hydro brakes make that claim.


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## cutthroat (Mar 2, 2004)

G-Live said:


> What kind of weight did youi end up with the Formula K18 system. I am looking at those for as a weight concerned (but not weenie) build.
> 
> G


The K18s weigh the same as the K24s, 393 in the front and 417 in the rear, that's everything with the 850mm hose in the front and the 1500mm hose in the back. There's room to trim a bit of the rear hose, but not enough to matter much. 160mm rotors front and back, IS mount. Post mount will shave another 12g off the front adpater. Going to a 180mm rotor up front adds another 27gs. I found that I knocked about 1/3 a pound off the bike going with the Formulas, but I still run the BB7s on my other bike, and BB5s on my SS. So far the Formulas have delivered great power, on par with the BB7s and a very nice lever feel. All things considered I like them better than the BB7s, but the BB7s have certain advantages for ease of adjustment and long term simplicity.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

cutthroat said:


> The K18s weigh the same as the K24s, 393 in the front and 417 in the rear, that's everything with the 850mm hose in the front and the 1500mm hose in the back. There's room to trim a bit of the rear hose, but not enough to matter much. 160mm rotors front and back, IS mount. Post mount will shave another 12g off the front adpater. Going to a 180mm rotor up front adds another 27gs. I found that I knocked about 1/3 a pound off the bike going with the Formulas, but I still run the BB7s on my other bike, and BB5s on my SS. So far the Formulas have delivered great power, on par with the BB7s and a very nice lever feel. All things considered I like them better than the BB7s, but the BB7s have certain advantages for ease of adjustment and long term simplicity.


Thanks,
The K18's look like a good option at around 800 grams. No not the 700 gram high end hydros but 100-150 grams less than BB7's and Juicy 5's.
G


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

Nate just give me the DL Do you really think that the BB7's are heavier than Hydro's. I've added up the weights and Front looks like 435G So they like about 100Grams heavier than say the Avid carbon juicy carbons.

thanks,
mike


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

imtb said:


> Nate just give me the DL Do you really think that the BB7's are heavier than Hydro's. I've added up the weights and Front looks like 435G So they like about 100Grams heavier than say the Avid carbon juicy carbons.
> 
> thanks,
> mike


I'm getting 462g with the current BB7, IS mount (front), 160mm rotor & Speed Dial SL lever.

I see a Magura Louise Carbon listed at 398g, 424g for a Juicy 7, and 400g for a Formula Oro (http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=discbrakes).

Juicy Carbon & Ultimate weights are in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=308434 Nino shows the Ultimate at 378g, minus the front IS adapter (add 14g).


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

Dam how'd you come up that pic so fast. I was looking at the hope minis, they looks pretty light. XTR's ?

84 Grams difference between the carbon and the BB7's Thats really not that much, probably not worth considering. How much difference for the rear.
I think i am starting to see the light.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

imtb said:


> Dam how'd you come up that pic so fast. I was looking at the hope minis, they looks pretty light. XTR's ?
> 
> 84 Grams difference between the carbon and the BB7's Thats really not that much, probably not worth considering. How much difference for the rear.
> I think i am starting to see the light.


The '04 Mono Mini is listed at 388g. Check out the weightweenies link in my previous post (I fixed the link).

Again, weight is in the eye of a beholder. To some, 84g may as well be a pound. To others, insignificant. Just depends on your priority.


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

I think i am starting to see the light. Hydro's really are not that much lighter than mechanicals. What about the XTR's. 

I am thinking i will probably stick with the BB7's for the price and performacne.

Thanks,
mike


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

I have not got them, but they are one of my 3 choices to upgrade my brakes from the BB7s,

The new 08 XT hydros were raved about my two guys at an LBS. They had had them on a bike for a couple of weeks. Price was good and light. I dont have at weight listing for them yet. 

Just something to look into.


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

Alright now i am looking at the XTR they look pretty light and Cambria has a front for $150.00 no rotor. Will any rotor work with xtr calipers? If I build it as 1x9 the I'll use the xtr sti shifter for the rear. 

Any comments?


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

Levers are also something to consider as they can be very heavy.

Even the Paul Love levers are a little porky (and flexy).


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Padre said:


> Levers are also something to consider as they can be very heavy.
> 
> Even the Paul Love levers are a little porky (and flexy).


Gotcha covered (they're in there).


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

Nate,
Thanks for the detailed info. It seems that a pair of very light levers like KCNC, Steinbach, or Extralite would bring the BB7 system weight near that of high-end hydraulics. Also, if your frame has cable stops, cable housing weight it reduced.

Do you know what Avid changed for 2008 that made the caliper heavier? Which vintage calipers do you recommend?

Off-topic - Did you ever try that SRAM i9 hub?


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

EuroMack said:


> Nate,
> Thanks for the detailed info. It seems that a pair of very light levers like KCNC, Steinbach, or Extralite would bring the BB7 system weight near that of high-end hydraulics. Also, if your frame has cable stops, cable housing weight it reduced.
> 
> Do you know what Avid changed for 2008 that made the caliper heavier? Which vintage calipers do you recommend?
> ...


I stuck with Avid Speed Dial levers because (a) that's what I have on hand and (b) the Speed Dial adds some adjustability. But even SRAM's light 9.0 levers were only a few grams lighter than the SLs, about 68g.

For the sake of comparison, the front caliper & 160mm rotor should probably be the basis of comparison, since that's what most manufacturers quote. For front installations, you can't eliminate any housing. But you're right, 40g+ could be saved by running interrupted housing to the rear brake. (I'll have to update the worksheet with a front cable & housing, since that is the standard of comparison.)

I have no idea what changed so drastically, but it must have made them cheaper to manufacture, because they're retailing for a whole lot less than the previous version. I sure like the idea of the hex key adjustment on the inner red knob on the '08.

How about some 1.1mm shifter cable? 

The i9 is still sitting. My bike commute blew up when I got kicked off the bus, and I'm not riding through this part of town at 10 PM to get from the train to work. I'll get around to lacing it up eventually, and will hopefully get some help getting the bus policy changed.


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## trelgne (Feb 9, 2006)

Would an Avid Full Metal Jacket save some weight? They advertise it with "35% lighter than equivalents section of cable housing". The Alligator Windcutter (92g) rotor would also save about 12g towards the 160mm Clean Sweep. And with titanium bolts you can save 7g for the six rotor belts.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Carful on the Ti rotor bolts. If you ever brake one in the hub, you are going to have a real hard time getting it out. You cant just drill a hole and put an easy out in it. The Ti is not going to drill out like a steal bolt. You may have to get yourself a new hub if you break one. I dont think they are worth the risk for such a small savings in wieght.

You could compensate the steel rotor bolts by filling your tires with Hydrogen. It wouldnt be much change but it will be something. Just dont run over campfires, it could be explosive.........


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hydrogen, lol.
as much as the Ti screw comment made sense it was immediately offset by the hydrogen one. Thanks for the chuckle though.


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## JeffL (Jan 25, 2009)

*Yes, they're heavy*

I recently went through this same question - years of using BB7s and lately agonizing over giving up mechanical dependability to save some weight with hydros. I got enough good feedback on various forums to give up my unfounded worry about hydro's dependability. I went with Hope Tech Evo X2. The weight comparisons:
BB7 front assembly: 325g
BB7 rear assembly: 356g
(caliper, cable & housing, Cane Creek direct curve lever, caliper bolts but no adapter)
Hope X2 front: 265
Hope X2 rear: 277
(caliper, hose (cut to correct length), lever, caliper bolts but no adapter)
I think the BB7s are 2009 model. The Hopes are 2012.

So, the weight savings just for replacing the caliper/lever assemblies was 139g. This assumes same rotors and mounting adapters. I used the BB7's for years with 185mm rotors front and back. When I first installed the Hope calipers I kept the same Avid G3 185mm rotors and rode about 100 miles to get a good comparison. I'm convinced the Hope X2 has quite a bit more braking power than the BB7s did. Enough power to reduce the rotor sizes and keep comparable braking power as the mechanicals. So, I replaced the Avid 185mm rotors with Hope floating rotors - 160mm front and 140mm rear. Of course the mounting adapters changed as well. The weights:
Avid G3 185 rotor F & R: 148g
Avid 185mm adapter & bolts F: 39g
Avid 185mm adapter & bolts R: 49g
Hope 160mm rotor F: 94g
Hope 140mm rotor R: 73g
Hope 140mm adapter & bolts R: 28g

Weight savings for replacing the rotors and corresponding adapters: 189

Total weight savings due to both caliper/lever weights and to increased braking power allowing smaller rotors: 328g.

Added benefit is that the machined aluminum calipers look pretty nice against my new Ti frame...


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

oooooo, that's pretty! Almost picked up a set of X2's but couldn't pass up the deal a buddy offered me on a brand new set of XTR's ($380 for the set). He got a set of X2's and loves them though, hence the deal I got on the XTR's.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

I remember someone a while back seriously tuning the BB7 calipers (mtbr forums?). Grinding and filing and polishing the caliper. I can't remember how much weight was actually dropped but it looked pretty darn cool...........


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm really enjoying this thread, nice to see the enthusiasm shared here. 
I too have the BB7's, and added full Titanium hardware including the CPS bolts/cones/cups, and some aluminum backed semi-metallic brake pads from Truckeroo that weighed only 11g per pair (down from 25g). Couple that with a pair of KCNC VB-1 levers (Just 48g a pair!) and I'm sure its a pretty light set of brakes all told.
What I would really like to see is Avid updating the BB7's, surely its time for a facelift, maybe a slimmer more sleek appearance and some weight shed, just don't mess with the pad adjust feature please. C'mon Avid there still some serious BB7 afficionados around!


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

gmats said:


> I remember someone a while back seriously tuning the BB7 calipers (mtbr forums?). Grinding and filing and polishing the caliper. I can't remember how much weight was actually dropped but it looked pretty darn cool...........


Tried to find it, but alas no. Darn, I would have liked to have seen it and have a go myself.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

OK, I think I found it. I haven't had the chance to read all the posts in it (recently) but I think this was the one.

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/tuned-bb7s-152294.html


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## pokz (Jun 25, 2009)

weight is not too bad for the performance.....:thumbsup:


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

All brakes have weight and slow you down. Just remove the darned things and go fast.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

gmats said:


> OK, I think I found it. I haven't had the chance to read all the posts in it (recently) but I think this was the one.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/tuned-bb7s-152294.html


Best to do the "tune" with levers, cables/housing, and some nice Alligator serrated rotors. I run 160f/140r serrated on all of my bikes (not to mention getting a pair of the older 2002 - 2007 N type calipers which weigh a bit less than all other versions).

BB


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

Great info guys. This may be the most intelligent, well rounded and reasonable thread ever to appear in the weight weenies forum!

I just have to put word in for the value of a good quality set of brake levers. The Avid levers are great, and I think worth the extra couple of grams. I have two bikes both with the same SD Ti v-brakes and same (up until a couple months ago) rims, one with Paul Love levers and the other with Avid SD Mag levers. Weight comes in at 129 for the pair of Pauls, 174 for the pair of Avid Mag/Ti, so over 40 grams saved on the race bike. But the difference in braking power is substantial, the Avid levers have much more power, and better ergonomics to boot. AFAICT, they have carried over all of these good features to the modern SD7 levers without much/any increase in weight. 40 grams well spent if you ask me.


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

Good point, I have the KCNC VB-1 levers which are just 48g a pair! However some flex its visible when the levers are pulled hard, the brakes work great but I would admit they'd be even better with the Avid levers. Substantial weight saving and great looks but at a price, take your pick. If I were stuck with the stock levers, pads, and fasteners I'd definately be looking at hydros.


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

gmats said:


> OK, I think I found it. I haven't had the chance to read all the posts in it (recently) but I think this was the one.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/tuned-bb7s-152294.html


Hey you found it, thanks for the link, that guy went to a whole lot of work there, thanks for sharing : )


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## excalibur1200 (Jan 12, 2011)

1SPD said:


> oooooo, that's pretty! Almost picked up a set of X2's but couldn't pass up the deal a buddy offered me on a brand new set of XTR's ($380 for the set). He got a set of X2's and loves them though, hence the deal I got on the XTR's.


I wish someone would offer me a deal on the new 2012 XTR brakes, man are they sweet, time to start saving (again) lol


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

The Shimano XT 785s weigh 365 grams plus say 140 grams for a rotor for a total weight of 500 grams per wheel or 1000 total. Isn't this about what the total weight of the bb7s? Thanks Bill


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

The Shimano XT 785s weigh 365 grams plus say 140 grams for a rotor for a total weight of 500 grams per wheel or 1000 total. Isn't this about what the total weight of the bb7s? Thanks Bill


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Billinsd said:


> The Shimano XT 785s weigh 365 grams plus say 140 grams for a rotor for a total weight of 500 grams per wheel or 1000 total. Isn't this about what the total weight of the bb7s? Thanks Bill


depending the weight of the levers, cables and housing you use with the BB7s....the XTs will probably still be lighter


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

crisillo said:


> depending the weight of the levers, cables and housing you use with the BB7s....the XTs will probably still be lighter


Thanks. BILL


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