# worthy Italian vintage MTBs. I mean REALLY worthy!!!



## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Right... not too many of them
Let's start from the best. Anything you find by Pegoretti, Castagnino, or Airline (basically, designed by Castagnino and built by Pegoretti)

No pic... here's the link tho

[ pegoretti cicli - modeli 2003 - models 2003 - pogostick ]


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Then, ferremi. A beauty. Here with Excell tubing


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Then, Scapin. Real missiles! Here with a custom Pace fork


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Why not? Cinelli, here in its elevated chainstays declination, Columbus Max. God forgive the owner for those vbrakes.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Bianchi, yes, but only the NTH series, supposedly designed in Cali.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

What? No Colnago? Pinarello? 

I said "worthy" bikes, guys, not things good to be used as gates of your garden!

Hope I haven't forgotten anything. I'll keep you updated should I have some inspiration.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I think the bianchi Super Grizzly RC was my favorite made in Italy mountain bike. Classic lines, deddacci (SP?) tubing and celeste paint. I have a CX counter part to that bike but have never had the mountain bike. If I needed an italian mountain bike, other than a pegoretti I would get the bianchi. Just loved it for some reason.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

even said:


> What? No Colnago? Pinarello?
> 
> I said "worthy" bikes, guys, not things good to be used as gates of your garden!
> 
> Hope I haven't forgotten anything. I'll keep you updated should I have some inspiration.


Ferrari bikes? they were noteworthy in their unique designs even if they were just rebranded bikes by another manufacturer whose name seems to slip my mind.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes but try and get an NTH as the one in the pic. Dedacciai or Columbus. Dedacciai are the later ones.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

even said:


> Yes but try and get an NTH as the one in the pic. Dedacciai or Columbus. Dedacciai are the later ones.


What was NTH? A racing team or just a special edition model? All we got here in the states was the Reparto Corse models as the top of the line.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Never understood the acronym NTH. Probably a marketing thing. In Italy they were called NTH and in the USA reparto corse.....


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Strange, we had a grizzly but it was a rweally cheap Bianchi, made in Taiwan, in hi ten steel. But I know in the States the bike range was very different.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

even said:


> Never understood the acronym NTH. Probably a marketing thing. In Italy they were called NTH and in the USA reparto corse.....


Hmm ok that makes sense. I didn't realize the super grizzly was offered in columbus.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

i think in italy there were many small local builders that created excellent off road bikes. 
and what about alan?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I like the Alan.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

As I said elsewhere, small builders started creating good bikes around 1994-5. Before their bikes were chunky, overbuilt, and with wrong geometries (read short top tubes and ultra long chainstays). Alan? Never tried one, but apparently they were very flexy and for sure prone to breaking in the lugs area. They tended to come unglued. Not good!

Another really good builder was Grandis, but I haven't found a decent pic yet.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

what about this?


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## GonaSovereign (Sep 20, 2004)

even said:


> Never understood the acronym NTH. Probably a marketing thing. In Italy they were called NTH and in the USA reparto corse.....


As in "to the Nth degree."

Bianchi did a road version as well. Tigged steel.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Machianera said:


> what about this?


Looks like some of that goofy geometry that even mentioned.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Looks like some of that goofy geometry that even mentioned.


italians have shorter upper body 

but i think the rear derailer cage and the and the half toe clips are neat.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Looks like some of that goofy geometry that even mentioned.


Love it, I think that derailleur cage and toe clips were part of the Campy groupo. What i love most was the weird adjustment options like the swinging brake levers and the QR on the bottom of the seat post head. What the heck was meant to be adjusted there. Like you really need to adjust that regularly.

Gorgeous paint job but looks like a really steep head tube and a long offset fork.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

How about a '89 Rossin


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

kb11 said:


>


KB, really like the Rossin.

One question, do you ever notice contact between the front brake cable and the housing for the cables that route along the downtube? I ask because I seem to have that problem with my Tesch.

Steve


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## mattytruth (Aug 2, 2006)

Wow, It really is just a matter of taste. None of those bikes you've shown are in my opinion as nice as my Olmo. The Rossin is much more to my taste. The Pegoretti is nice but not exactly vintage, the Scapin is hideous & so is the Cinelli. Horses for courses I guess.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Machianera said:


> i think in italy there were many small local builders that created excellent off road bikes.
> and what about alan?


Really neat until you get to the stem....so many other options and they went with a Zoom!?


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## mattytruth (Aug 2, 2006)

Machianera said:


> what about this?


I really love this. I'd ride this anytime.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

eastcoaststeve said:


> KB, really like the Rossin.
> 
> One question, do you ever notice contact between the front brake cable and the housing for the cables that route along the downtube? I ask because I seem to have that problem with my Tesch.
> Steve


The cables on this are original and probably alittle long but your front brake cable shouldn't be rubbing the downtube cables/housing, unless your about to crash with the front wheel cocked sideways


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Another Cinelli: MOMBAT: 1990 Cinelli The Absolute Machine










Couple of neat features on this one.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

New Old Stock Pinarello with mostly NOS Campy parts: MOMBAT: 1990 Pinarello Antelao










Very pretty pearl white with translucent blue finish.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Another NOS frame but with much more modern Deore XT parts, makes a nice rider: MOMBAT: 1990 Pinarello Antelao


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

And finally, this one is labeled as a Denti but it looks like there were a previous set of decals on the bike: MOMBAT: 1989 Denti


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

As you can see, Pinarello, Daccordi Rossin etc are really nicely built, i don't doubt that, but the geometries are completely wrong. Not to mention hiperheavy tubing. That Denti Puzzles me. What tubes are they? They look like Columbus aero pipes for time trial bikes, which would make sense, given the thicker walls they used to have...

We should make an effort to find decent pics of Grandis bikes.... apparently they were brilliant performers. Post 94 Tommasini are beautiful as well.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

Rumpfy said:


> Really neat until you get to the stem....so many other options and they went with a Zoom!?


right... this is how it is supposed to be. i did not know alan frames were sold under canna (?) brand.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Ganna... yes, also Guerciotti used to brand Alans.

And this biek makes me think about Mr. Tommasini talking 'bout The first Campy gruppos (Euclid and Centaur). THERE WAS NO WAY TO SET THEM UP. Really, he told me they were desperate....


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

That D'accordi is the definitive example of how far off the back Euro builders and manufacturers were in the late 80's. Euclid, that Geo, that PAINT.

Don't get me wrong, is beautiful, sort of in a so bad it's good kind of way - certainly marks a point in time, though - which is half of why some of us are here...


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Beatiful as it can be, that type of bike is the what I mean by "unworthy". Pianrello, Colnago, Daccordi etc were all well built and had fancy paint schemes, but both the tubes and the geometries made there much more suitable as supports for solar panels.

Conversely, Pegoretti/Castagnino, Ferremi, Cinelly, Scapin, Speed had reaceworthy geometries and decent weight (especially the non-lugged models). Pegoretti's experience in the States and Cinelli's collaboration with Gary Fisher can explain this.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)




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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

that one is "the Machine", cool Columbus Max, nice geometries, Fisher's design.


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

even said:


> that one is "the Machine", cool Columbus Max, nice geometries, Fisher's design.


Interesting! I just love the look of that one. So nice. 
D


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Machianera said:


>


Steve Jobs on the left.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

he was an avid mountain biker. if the cinelli is good enough for Steve Jobs, it is good enough for anybody.


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## titopresi (Apr 4, 2006)

*i'm a scapin real fan....i love the steel tube frame....*

i owned some different bike....in more than 15 years.....

1)diamond back axis true temper steel frame
2)Marin team titanium
3)cannondale sv
4)rocky mountain blizzard
5)rocky mountain slayer sxc70 team
6)Scapin wolfgang r

the last one is a steel frame and is the best bike i've used....i'm still using that bike....and believe me is really another feeling to ride this steel bike.....


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

As I said, Scapins are missiles. The late carbon one are crappy carbon bikes made in Taiwan, but the steel rigs still rock

The guy next to Steve Jobs is Colombo, boss of Cinelli and Columbus


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

even said:


> As I said, Scapins are missiles. The late carbon one are crappy carbon bikes made in Taiwan, but the steel rigs still rock
> 
> The guy next to Steve Jobs is Colombo, boss of Cinelli and Columbus


I was only joking with the resemblance of that guy to Jobs. That's not really him I'm pretty sure.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Ah I dunno, I just know the guy on the right is Colombo... Since he knows lots of celebrities (interesting guy, he used to have connection with artists and musicians) I thought the other man was really Jobs


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

Steve Jobs on Bikes and Minds


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I was only joking with the resemblance of that guy to Jobs. That's not really him I'm pretty sure.


I think it's Jobs. That's his outfit. And it sure looks like him. Or Steve Perry....or Martina Navratilova.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> I think the bianchi Super Grizzly RC was my favorite made in Italy mountain bike. Classic lines, deddacci (SP?) tubing and celeste paint. I have a CX counter part to that bike but have never had the mountain bike. If I needed an italian mountain bike, other than a pegoretti I would get the bianchi. Just loved it for some reason.


Actually my wife still has, and uses, her made in italy Reparto Corse Super Grizzly RC with columbus tubing. She loves it and refuses to get a new bike.

Got to post some pics of that bike...


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

One is SteveJobs the other is Antonio Colombo of columbs tubing. Dont know if he is known as Joe since Joe Colombo is a master of Industrial Design.
So... Recumbents are for more efficient people??


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

found this at local bike swap here in AZ. Wish I had available funds as he also had 1 1/8" AMP fork to go with it.

(hope this works first mobile post)


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> found this at local bike swap here in AZ. Wish I had available funds as he also had 1 1/8" AMP fork to go with it.
> 
> (hope this works first mobile post)


Those are neat. I wanted one of those back in the day. Bruno Zanchi I think was the junior that rode DH for Italy and rode one of those.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

I've got what is left of a Bianchi Super G in the basement right now. Even ran an Amp fork on it. Nice design, actually, and was okay until I broke the rear suspension riding it in Chequamegon in '96.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Austin Dave said:


> I think it's Jobs. That's his outfit. And it sure looks like him. Or Steve Perry....or Martina Navratilova.


Steve Perry is a short little guy. Martina is a man with blonde hair. Must be Jobs.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Those are neat. I wanted one of those back in the day. Bruno Zanchi I think was the junior that rode DH for Italy and rode one of those.


No, Bruno raced an NTH Columbus Max hardtail with an Italin made Spring fork up front at the worlds. Then he rode protos, at first made of steel, then in titanium (a box section spectacular moster). Weird thing, this particular Bianchi has never made it to the Italian market...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

even said:


> No, Bruno raced an NTH Columbus Max hardtail with an Italin made Spring fork up front at the worlds. Then he rode protos, at first made of steel, then in titanium (a box section spectacular moster). Weird thing, this particular Bianchi has never made it to the Italian market...


Hmmm. Coulda sworn we had a poster of him on one of those at the shop. Maybe it was just a photo for the US market.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Ah maybe... even because that one was not a dh specific model, was it?


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

even said:


> No, Bruno raced an NTH Columbus Max hardtail with an Italin made Spring fork up front at the worlds. Then he rode protos, at first made of steel, then in titanium (a box section spectacular moster). Weird thing, this particular Bianchi has never made it to the Italian market...


I remember the ti monocoque one that he rode. It was Ti with the same rear suspension design, looked a lot like the old G1 RAD bike and had a moto style saddle, long and fixed at multiple points to the frame. Was back when Europe was experimenting with the concept of full suspension and really stepping out of the dominant paradigm of the US dominant 4-bar suspension.


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

This is the DH bike. Bruno is in the middle. The guy on the right is my friend Paolo. The place is the booth we put up at Padua bike show last year, with Paolo's collection

Have a look, there's also Acquaroli's Bianchi (and not the magnificent Mantis carbon screaming V, on the left next to the Raven)

retrobike :: View topic - Vintage booth ayt Padova EXPOBICI bike show


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