# What compares to Lupine?



## cocheese (Jan 12, 2004)

I am looking for some new lights. The last set I had was a Lupine Betty/Wilma combo, which I really loved. I may go back to the same setup, but I think there are some new offerings available now. At the time of my last purchase there were Nightrider, Light & Motion, & Lupine.

Can someone point me in the direction of a few good options? Perhaps there is a good "shootout" that you could post a link of? 

I am looking for handlebar & helmet lights. They will see regular night use and some endurance racing. (Heck, it gets dark here at 4:30 in the winter!)


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Why don't you just buy upgrade-boards for your lights? That's what I would have done..


----------



## cocheese (Jan 12, 2004)

langen said:


> Why don't you just buy upgrade-boards for your lights? That's what I would have done..


Sorry, I should have added that I don't have the Lupines anymore. Sold them in a fit of stupidity last season.


----------



## tjl5709 (Mar 23, 2006)

What was her name?


----------



## string (Jan 13, 2004)

Dinnotte makes very good lights. 

You can always go with Magicshine as well (not as high in quality, but relatively bright, and cheap).


----------



## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

cocheese said:


> I am looking for some new lights. The last set I had was a Lupine Betty/Wilma combo, which I really loved. I may go back to the same setup, but I think there are some new offerings available now. At the time of my last purchase there were Nightrider, Light & Motion, & Lupine.
> 
> Can someone point me in the direction of a few good options? Perhaps there is a good "shootout" that you could post a link of?
> 
> I am looking for handlebar & helmet lights. They will see regular night use and some endurance racing. (Heck, it gets dark here at 4:30 in the winter!)


 Can only emagine what caused you to turf your Lupines. That been said, if budget isn't an issue i think you have your answer. Other than some DIY'ers products, two other's that will nock your socks off in my opinion would be the Night Lightning Blast which would be in the 3000 lumen range, a little on the large side. Also the Night Nemesis by Full Beam uses the same 7up board of XPG's as the Lupine betty and is a little brighter as there is a 30 watt option i think, as well as the large lamp head should dissipate heat better and that means cooler led's. Both lights would be to big for helmet use unless your an offensive lineman, thus not giving you the helmet/handel bar combo package your looking for.You would then have to shop around to find a helmet light that was bright enough to compete,which would probably need to be a Wilma anyway,not to mention matching coulor rendition. You would save some cash but those options aren't as cheep as you may think. I still believe for size and weight, you will not find a commercial product combo anywhere that will give you what another Betty/Wilma package can. I'm sure there will be even more company's challenging that in the very near future, but i think as a handel bar/helmet combo, Lupines still rule.


----------



## Marcopol0 (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi Cocheese,

Our light kicks out a shed load of light. No need for a handlebar/helmet combo.
Over 2500 lumens (and thats after adjusted for losses). It will take the pepsi challenge on any technical / freeride trail you can throw at it as it's got both the beamwidth and throw.

We ship at 2100 Lumnes (22.4W) but it's configurable up to 30W (2500+ lumnes) and the case design handles the extra heat really well.

check it out at www.full-beam.com
Sounds like you might ned the 'wide lens'.
We've got a cool promo video at





regards,

Marco Miglioncico


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Nothing compares to the Lupines...hence this 3/4-bikes-a season guy (me) cannot find anything to upgrade to. It kinda sucks but at least Lupine offers upgrades so the UGI is somewhat sated. That said, if I HAD to get something else, I'd look at Exposure for the wireless factor if they were bright enough and light enough. Everything else is to too many steps down. Magicshine doesn't even register on my scale. I do hope we see some higher-end lights this Inter Bike. I have lost interest in lights since nothing is interesting anymore. I do plan on a lot of night-riding this year with my upgraded Betty and the Tesla.

New bikes though...that never ceases to get me charged up. Tallboy, Sultan, Epic S- Works, Edge wheels....whew!!


----------



## Marcopol0 (Nov 3, 2009)

LOL FLYER, you'll not be the first Lupine fanboy we leave agog. Our light is about half the price and kicks out 25% more light!!
Check it out. Also watch this space as we've got some seriously good products on the proto table; without giving too much away
our "Night Nemesis" is our 'entry level' light.

regards,

Marco.
www.full-beam.com


----------



## stephen8 (Aug 13, 2010)

Magic Shine 900's are a really good alternative. They're basically a knockoff of the lupines for a fraction of the price

http://tinyurl.com/2by3wwd

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/magicshine-mj-808/


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Trust me- I have seen them all. Your light is nothing new to me. They may impress others though and for your sake, I hope so. It is not simply the lumen count I am impressed by.



Marcopol0 said:


> LOL FLYER, you'll not be the first Lupine fanboy we leave agog. Our light is about half the price and kicks out 25% more light!!
> Check it out. Also watch this space as we've got some seriously good products on the proto table; without giving too much away
> our "Night Nemesis" is our 'entry level' light.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I have a Nightlightning IBlaast 2 that has run flawlessly for 2 years and due to the quality batteries, they last and run very well. The build quality is great. I am awaiting delivery of my IBlaast IX with it's serious output to go with it and replace the Hope 4 led. They are a very good company and the light costs £350 with a 4.4ah battery and charger.
I also like the look of the Night Nemesis and it has great beamshots on the site. 
The latest Lupine Betty didn't do amazingly in this months What Mountain Bike, reliability being a recurring issue. They do make good looking apparently well built lights though. I'll give you an update when I receive the IBLAAST IX and it's claimed 3000+ lumens.


----------



## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Marcopol0 said:


> It will take the pepsi challenge on any technical / freeride trail you can throw at it as it's got both the beamwidth and throw.


Hi Marco,

what's the Pepsi challenge? ;-)

Does your light have an external/remote control switch? That's the part - besides the beam pattern - I like the most in my Wilma. If not, here's an idea for a future upgrade...

Otherwise it looks like a great product, how about getting it reviewed by some magazines?

Cheers!


----------



## Marcopol0 (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi Radirpok,

Well, judging by this thread the pepsi challenge is designing a light that even Flyer would be impressed by:thumbsup: 

Yep, an external switch is in one of our protos so it may well end up in a production light. Point of note though, we only preferred the 'on the fly' adjustment on the multimode settings. When using just 2 or 3 levels on the fly wasn't so important as you usually transition from a technical downhill section to climb/flat which is when you change light settings.

As for magazines: MBUK (mountain biking UK!!) has been playing with 2 sets of our lights for about a month now. However we were slightly too late for the grouptest review in issue 257 so the review of our light might not appear until issue 258. We did request for a slot in the grouptest. 

Maybe even the guys here at MTBR might even consider testing a set. 
Just for kicks I set up as per their test set up with the luxmeter ie on a desk, 5 feet from the roof with the light pointing at the roof, I got:
22.4W (standard shipping default) = 151 Lux
I think the Trailtech got about 120 Lux at 30W. lupine betty with the Seoul P4 got about 65 Lux but would expect the new XPG Betty to be above 100 Lux.

regards,
Marco.


----------



## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Marcopol0 said:


> Yep, an external switch is in one of our protos so it may well end up in a production light. Point of note though, we only preferred the 'on the fly' adjustment on the multimode settings. When using just 2 or 3 levels on the fly wasn't so important as you usually transition from a technical downhill section to climb/flat which is when you change light settings.
> 
> Maybe even the guys here at MTBR might even consider testing a set.
> Just for kicks I set up as per their test set up with the luxmeter ie on a desk, 5 feet from the roof with the light pointing at the roof, I got:
> ...


Hi Marco,

changing modes quickly can be also important when there's some oncoming traffic - maybe your trails aren't as congested as ours. I ride many not-so-steep-and-technical but very fast fireroads where a rider/runner/walker can pop out of nothing from behind the next corner.

FYI: the Betty is 165 lux: http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/2010-mtbr-lights-shootout/

Not that it really matters, anything above ~1000 lumens is bright enough for me ;-)


----------



## Marcopol0 (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi radirpok,

I just notice something. The one you post is the Betty 1750 lumens. The old betty was a claimed 1400. However there is no way it's jumped from 65 to 165 Lux so I can only presume there was a test set up difference as it would imply from these figures that the new betty is *2.5 times brighter *than the old Betty which is patently questionable given the theoretical emitter data: Seoul P4x7 & 23W = 1365 Lumens. XP-Gx7 & 23W = 2450. ie about *1.8 times more light.*

1400 Lumnes Betty: 65 Lux
https://reviews.mtbr.com/files/2008/01/mtbr_claimedandmeasured.gif
https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements/

1750 Lumens Betty: 165 Lux
https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/2010-mtbr-lights-shootout/

What gives?? Anyone know what the discrepancy is. Is the new test method different from the old test method?

Marco.


----------



## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Marcopol0 said:


> What gives?? Anyone know what the discrepancy is. Is the new test method different from the old test method?


The old Betty was theoretically 1400/1500 lumens, but that was not a measured value. 7xP4 gives a theoretical ~1400 lumens, but that is not calculating losses due to heat, optics and others (and the first Betty was notoriously bad in heat management). So in real life it was probably around 1000 lumens, which seems to be correct, since the XPG Wilma (1000/1100 lumens) is about as bright as the old Betty.
Luckily Lupine have bought an Ulbricht-sphere since then, and their quoted lumens are now very close to reality (even the "enemy" admits that: check out the Light&Motion marketing material...).

Btw. if you have the chance to get your light output tested by all means do it, you might be in for a surprise...

EDIT: great, my reply just got discarded...

So, answering your question: the "lux method" favours spot lights, and the standard Betty is a very spotty light. Francois should repeat the test with the wide version, and I think the result should be closer to the Trailtech HID.


----------



## Marcopol0 (Nov 3, 2009)

Interesting. I took a look at the actual data and L&M website. Where does it mention how long after switch on were the measurements taken? Obviously this makes a big difference. Judging by the Lpine Betty output 760 Lumens?! I would say they waited for it to heat up quite a bit! I have a tickling feeling in the back of my mind there was a similar thread to this a year or so back.
EDIT found it:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=550190&highlight=lupine
Very very interesting.
This seemed to be the general concensus.:


> Well I own a Lupine Betty light, as well as a Light n Motion..... The tests in the first post in this thread may well state that the LnM light has far more Lumins than the Betty...... But trust me, I have ridden with both back to back, my 4 main riding buddies all have LnM lights..... The Betty just creams the LnM lights on the actual trail under riding conditions. It is night and day difference.....
> I am no expert on lights, but real time experience forces me to say BS to the tests, again, not just saying that to rark people. Put it another way, all my riding group would sooner take the Betty than a LnM light any night ride!
> In saying that, the LnM lights are awesome, but the Betty is in another league......


Getting back to Cocheese's request. Exposure Sixpack (claimed 1800 from 6 xp-G, more likely 1400ish) is another option if you prefer the intergrated battery. 500g all in approx. I would still prefer to ride with our 7up though! 
Marco.


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I'll keep an open mind. The Tesla beam is awesome and it is really light. Lupine will upgrade it next year so unless someone comes up with a 50-gram Tesla, I'll stick with it.

What I love about the (ugraded) Betty is the beam pattern, throw, and color (not too white). I also dig the remote switch that I can use to dim the light for oncoming riders without EVER taking my hand off the bar. I can see a hundred yards away and I cannot outrun it. The width has increased as well and the beam is not so white that it becomes reflective. 

Reliability- twice I have been caught in a cold downpour for over an hour with the lights and batteries fully exposed. The lights didn't even blink. I have crashed with them twice as well- hard. No issues. The cables are thick yet very flexible, the lights do not budge, they are as waterproof as one needs them to be, and the runtimes are great. I can also program them to dim to levels I want. In addition to that, I can upgrade them every few seasons as I wish.

Make me switch.


----------



## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Flyer said:


> Lupine will upgrade it next year so unless someone comes up with a 50-gram Tesla, I'll stick with it.


Do you know what would be the upgrade? lumens? pattern?


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Just one of those rumors I hear. Sometimes, they end up being the voices in my head...very annoying when that happens. I'd guess they will upgrade the LED since I think the pattern is fantastic- be a cheap and quick upgrade.



BBW said:


> Do you know what would be the upgrade? lumens? pattern?


----------



## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Flyer said:


> Just one of those rumors I hear. Sometimes, they end up being the voices in my head...very annoying when that happens. I'd guess they will upgrade the LED since I think the pattern is fantastic- be a cheap and quick upgrade.


the only voices that I hear inside my head are my wife's:thumbsup:


----------



## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

BBW said:


> Do you know what would be the upgrade? lumens? pattern?


 Just a guess but,,, maybe along the line of the Tesla TL 1200 flashlight.SWEET!!!


----------



## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Marcopol0 said:


> Hi radirpok,
> 
> I just notice something. The one you post is the Betty 1750 lumens. The old betty was a claimed 1400. However there is no way it's jumped from 65 to 165 Lux so I can only presume there was a test set up difference as it would imply from these figures that the new betty is *2.5 times brighter *than the old Betty which is patently questionable given the theoretical emitter data: Seoul P4x7 & 23W = 1365 Lumens. XP-Gx7 & 23W = 2450. ie about *1.8 times more light.*
> 
> ...


SSC P4 rated at 240lumen where very wasteful and only put 1/2 that in a forward direction where as a Cree XP-G puts 75% of it's light forward and has 320lumens.

240 * 0.50 = 120 * 7 = 840Lumens in REAL world I think the old Bettys where, 2 x P7 torches beat them put it that way.

320 * 0.75 = 240 * 7 = 1680 Lumens which is twice the output.

The CREE's will focus the spot better to giving a higher reading.


----------



## luminous (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi.

Just noticed this thread and thought I'd tell you a little about what else you might consider.

As far as Lupine go, I think my lights match them for quality of machining finish, and superceed them for quality of connectors and other components.

There are an increasing number of light models to choose from in the Luminous Lights range, and prices are, favourable.

Just thought I'd bring these lights to the OP's attention.


I finished the helmet light this weekend just gone, here are some pics I took an hour ago.
I'm no David Bailey though.

This light can be used either as a helmet light or as a bar mounted light, although there are other bar mount specific lights in the range.



















4 XP-G at 1A gives a theoretical output of 1400 lumens. I'll get a measurement completed soon.
Weight is 113g plus helmet mount, plus battery. So, its in the zone for comparison with the usual brands mentioned here, imo.

All lights are made to the same standards, Model 7/601 bar lights have been on the market for a year now. Water resistant and armed with the latest Cree XLamp LEDs, either the XP-E or XP-G.
All sealing is by rubber O'rings, just like on your Lupines, etc.

Theres some more info at:
www.luminouslights.co.uk

Thanks


----------

