# To tent or not to tent



## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

I've just read the entire shelters thread and notice that hardly any of you actually use a tent. It had never occurred to me to use anything but a tent, and a two walled tent at that. I've been toying with either the MSR Hubba Hubba NX, or the MEC spark 2. Neither of which where mentioned anywhere. 

I'm thinking two person, even though for this first trip I'll be sleeping alone. I like the extra space, only small difference in weight and pack size and cost, plus the extra versatility of having a friend share in the future - assuming I can find one!

Is this thought process folly? Should I be thinking lighter and smaller all the way? 

What about the tent or no tent dilemma? I'm in the Canadian Rockies and wild (random) camping is rarely permitted. The chances of finding trees the right distance apart for a hammock in the campground is slim. Does a tarp system really save you that much weight?

Which tents, enclosed, are you using?

Thanks

ps. Sorry for the multiple posts, but I have a lot of questions!


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

Perhaps I should mention that I currently have a Crux X2 tent, but I've deemed that too big and heavy for bikepacking


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## Skeeno (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm a fan of tents. I use a 1person tent from Teton. I will gladly take the weight penalty for bug free sleeping and a little privacy.

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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Depends on whether or not you have the Mosquito Air Force where you are camping.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I can't imagine bikepacking and staying in a campground unless it was exceptional.

My buddy and I did Yellowstone to Glacier via Beartooth pass & then onto the Icefields Parkway through Jasper. More of a touring trip obviously but we didn't use many campgrounds and were never hassled. This was about 15 years ago now and we used a 2 man tent. These days I much prefer a hammock.


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

Apparently it is illegal to camp outside designated campgrounds in all provincial parks.

Yes, I would expect both bugs and rain.

Plus, I'm scared of bears and have the irrational thought that the fraction of a mm of fabric will keep me safe from them!


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## Skeeno (Jan 14, 2009)

A tent will make no difference to a bear. Carry bear spray if you expect to encounter them.

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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

jlt199 said:


> Apparently it is illegal to camp outside designated campgrounds in all provincial parks.


True in provincial parks, but there is lots of Crown Land through the Canadian Rockies where dispersed camping is allowed.



> Plus, I'm scared of bears and have the irrational thought that the fraction of a mm of fabric will keep me safe from them!


Yup - that's irrational.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

The Bivvy bag, tent or hammock conundrum. 

I ride with a tent, a Eureka Midori Solo. staying dry and bug free are keys to a good nights sleep. It is heavier than many like coming in at around 4#, but it is a solid self standing tent. The bathtub is deep and rain will flow right around it keeping ole Johnny dry in all but the absolute worst conditions.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I too am still a fan of tents, mostly for the critter and rain protection. I'm currently using a 1P Marmot EOS, not the lightest and a bit tight on room, but the price was right.

You didn't mention your budget, and that will make a huge difference. The more you spend, the lighter your tent will be. Big Agnes has some really nice light options, but are not cheap. It's also a goo idea to check around for used options to save some money. Ebay, Craigslist, Geartrade.com, Bikepacking gear swap page on Facebook, etc. It may take a while, but keep looking and research what you are seeing and you will find something.

Also, I would stick with a 1 person tent. It will be cheaper and lighter, and almost more importantly, pack down smaller and be easier to pack. If you convince someone else to go down the line they will have to fend for themselves. When bikepacking with a friend, I'd rather sleep in my own tent anyway, unless it's with my wife, but that's not happening any time soon...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Hammock most of the time, but I also have a small tent too. Bugs and rain, need something for both here in New England. No shortage of trees here either. I find hammocks very comfortable and cool.


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

My budget is zero! But I was looking at tents on the 300-400CAD range. Obviously the cheaper the better. I thought I had a huge timecrunch and was limited to what nearby stores were selling, but now I think I have some more leeway as I think I can borrow a tent for this first trip. So, that opens up more possibilities and more confusion!

The tent would also need to be useful as a backpacking tent, but the characteristics of a good tent are the same for both, so shouldn't be a problem.

To be honest I'm not familiar with North America brands, so I don't know which ones are good. I get that Big Agnes is a good brand, if expensive, but what tent would you go for?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Whatever is cheapest and lightest at REI? Borrow if needed. I don't cheap out on my bike stuff or the good, basic gear. Tent or hammock, sleeping bag, pad. Although the closed cell foam pad is inexpensive,


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

I don't see the point in buying something now that I'm going to regret and replace later. I have a reasonably light thermorest - the lightest made when I bought is about 15 years ago.

The problem is how light and small can you go before you sacrifice durability and functionality under normal use. Already I'm being told that the two tents I've been looking at need a footprint because the fabric is so fragile.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

jlt199 said:


> The problem is how light and small can you go before you sacrifice durability and functionality under normal use. Already I'm being told that the two tents I've been looking at need a footprint because the fabric is so fragile.


All tents should be used with a footprint. Not all people do, and yes, the lighter tents often use thinner material to keep the weight down. Where and how you use the tent should determine whether or not you should use one. And it doesn't need to be the footprint from the manufacturer, is could be a simple sheep of Tyvek that cost a couple of dollars.


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## MikeR91 (Aug 6, 2014)

If you've ever woken to the sound of a bear sniffing the corner of your tent, it is possible to convince yourself to lie as still and quiet as possible. I would imagine that would not be an easy task if you woke up to a bear sniffing the corner of your face. I've experienced the first one. I have a feeling I would panic if I had to experience the second one, and that seems like a situation that could get out of control quickly. Irrational or not, I'll stick with my tent.

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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

jlt199 said:


> I've just read the entire shelters thread and notice that hardly any of you actually use a tent. It had never occurred to me to use anything but a tent, and a two walled tent at that. I've been toying with either the MSR Hubba Hubba NX, or the MEC spark 2. Neither of which where mentioned anywhere.
> 
> I'm thinking two person, even though for this first trip I'll be sleeping alone. I like the extra space, only small difference in weight and pack size and cost, plus the extra versatility of having a friend share in the future - assuming I can find one!
> 
> ...


I prefer tents over all the other options. I have the Spark 1 and have been happy with it...


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

I keep toying with the idea of not using a tent. But can never quite get away from it. I currently use a Big Agnes Seedhouse UL1. It's a good option but I keep wanting one of the Super Light Weight Fly Creek's or Copper Spur's. I am thinking about using just the ground sheet, poles and fly (no tent body) on my next trip to see how I feel about it. But in the back of my mind I worry about creepy crawlies and condensation.


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

BlackCanoeDog said:


> I have the Spark 1 and have been happy with it...


Have you tested it in wind and rain, does it perform well? Is it big enough for all your kit? I was thinking of the Spark 1, but then started toying with the Spark 2 as it's not much heavier or bigger packed up, but offers a whole load of space.

I think with the advice I might be leaning back toward the one person tent though


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

bmoney said:


> But in the back of my mind I worry about creepy crawlies and condensation.


I don't mind creepy crawlies when I'm awake. When I'm asleep I have nightmares of them crawling in my ear. I had a wasp fly in my ear and sting me when I was a child and it's left me traumatized! I think I should stick to a tent

... In fact with my fears or bears and creepy crawlies, maybe I should stay home 

I'll look at those tents you've listed thanks


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

Wow, the Big Agnes Fly Creek is light, and expensive! Coming in at $600CAD. I think it will be a long time before I get to one of those


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

Super light and quite cheap: the Wenzel Hiker/biker tent.

But you'll *need* to make some changes to it...

Throw out the stakes and buy some lightweight ones. I got some for about ~$1 on sale at a sporting goods store. Or you could try something like this.

Next, scrap the supplied tent poles and make news ones from carbon arrows. Sounds crazy - but it works. If I can do it, you can do it. I followed the instructions in this video.

Lastly, you _need_ to spray this tent with water-proofer.

So $35 for the tent, $10 for stakes, ~$30 for arrow parts, and $9.99 for water-proofer: about $85.

Here's the kicker: *Mine weighs a mere 826 grams!* (1.82 lbs.)

Caveats: this is a single-walled tent and will suffer condensation inside. And the carbon arrow poles might not be bullet-proof. I wouldn't let kids crawl around in it. But a responsible adult should be fine.

Pictures to follow.

All setup at camp:








Weighed:








Size comparison:








And here's a comparable Big Agnes FlyCreek UL1 that costs $250 and weighs 278 g _more_:


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

connolm said:


> *Mine weighs a mere 826 grams!* (1.82 lbs.)


Wow, what kind of weather has that withstood?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Tool up for the outing and conditions.

Many days or weeks out, a UL 1P tent (2P with wife). Several days with a good forecast, pad and sleeping bag only. Several days out with iffy forecast, worth toting a tent. IME bivy bags are for survival, not sleep.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I've been out in that tent in solid, persistent rain - but nothing too windy. Thinking about it, it's always been setup amongst trees so wind never really roars.


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## Quercus agrifolia (Jan 30, 2005)

I am also generally a fan of tents. I'll leave it behind for one-night bandit camping raids where a low profile is important, but for multi-day adventures I like the protection from bugs and/or weather.

It seems like there are lots of choices around 2 lbs these days, but it'll cost ya. I also subscribe to the 2-person-tent-for-solo-use theory, for the extra room and negligible weight penalty. I'm still digging my Tarptent Double Rainbow, but even that is kinda chunky at just over a kg. And it is single-wall, but vents well and I don't go to humid places.


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

jlt199 said:


> Have you tested it in wind and rain, does it perform well? Is it big enough for all your kit? I was thinking of the Spark 1, but then started toying with the Spark 2 as it's not much heavier or bigger packed up, but offers a whole load of space.
> 
> I think with the advice I might be leaning back toward the one person tent though


The Spark 1 is basically a knock-off of the MSR Hubba and Freelite. The Hubba could be an advantage in rain if you are trying to cook in the vestibule, as it's a bit bigger. That said it's doable in the Spark vestibule. I have several tents geared more towards canoe tripping that are obviously larger, heavier, and more durable (and much more expensive) but I think the Spark is just fine for it's intended purpose. I'm 5'9" 160 lb and yes I can get my kit inside, which only consists of the seat bag and a smallish back pack...


















Regarding a Spark 2 to accommodate a friend, my thoughts are for 2 people you really need a 3 man tent unless it's someone you are going to be intimate with lol. Otherwise your better with a 1 man which forces the friend also has his/her own tent. That's the most "comfy" and practical option imo. As far as I can tell any bivy sacks I would even consider spending the night in are almost as heavy/bulky as this tent, and prone to condensation. As for hammocks, well I can lay in one for a nap on a nice afternoon, but that's my limit! I just don't find them comfy for an all nighter, maybe because I mostly like to sleep on my side or stomach and don't do well sleeping on my back. And then the 2 trees you need are never right were you want them lol


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

To use a tent or not is as broad of a question as which tires, saddle or bike to use. 

Personally, I like to be enclosed but hate bivvy bags. So, I specifically chose the Six Moons Lunar Solo tent for weight, ease of setup, cost and size. It was, for me, a perfect choice. Mind you, I spent weeks researching a gob of options before deciding on that tent. If it's of any benefit, I like it enough that I bought the duo version for when my wife and I bike pack or camp. 


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

I found the Fly Creek UL1 on sale for around $250 this spring. I was trying a bivy for the past 2yrs and as a 52yr old guy, didn't like the hassle of getting in and out for my midnight pee breaks. Condensation was an issue, but not too bad. I think that I could make them work if I need to, but not if persistent rain was in the forecast.

I really like the extra room in the Fly Creek, it allows me to slightly spread stuff out to dry, charge or keep out of the rain. The fly/vestibule is also generous. Very handy for rainy trips. Besides the poles, it packs very small. I have the groundsheet, tent body and fly in one Anything Bag/Cage on the fork. The poles are in my Sweetroll, but I'm thinking that a downtube bag made to fit these poles would be ideal.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

I typically use a hammock w a built in bug screen and a tarp. Called the Warbonnet Blackbird. It takes some practice setting it up but it is very comfortable nights sleep. The tarp and hammock weighs about 2 lbs. To complete that you would need what is known as a top quilt and an under quilt. Both of which can sometimes come in lighter and less bulky than a sleeping bag and Pad.

Whether you are in a tent or hammock going to a quilt instead of a sleeping bag can save you significant pack space and weight, even in the winter.

For tents i like the single wall tents that are basically modified/refined and embellished tarps. Being single wall you have to learn some ventilation basics but i'd recommend that w any type of tent. Having said that, most modern single wall tents are designed to channell any condensation out the perimeter. They even are available w screens and bath tub floors. Oh, and they are often lighter and less bulky than double wall tents. Have a look!

https://www.tarptent.com

These are UL but pricey:
Ultralight Backpacking Tent | ZPacks | Lightweight Backpacking Tent


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jlt199 said:


> Is this thought process folly? Should I be thinking lighter and smaller all the way?


You should get whatever shelter you feel comfortable in and can get a good night's sleep. What that looks like varies by area, season and person. If you can buy the lightest version of the shelter you decide on based on your budget and how gently you treat gear. If you trash stuff easily the most UL tent/tarp may not be a good idea even if it's sweet to carry.

I use a Big Agnes FlyCreek UL1 tent most of the time bikepacking. It's ~1kg and is good for any weather I am going to encounter where I live. I've tried a hammock and didn't love it - plus it's heavier than my tent. I have tried a tarp + bug net and that approach had merit for a fast light trip where speed/ease of riding techy terrain was more important than the most weather/bug protection.

So buying a UL 2 man tent is not crazy talk. Especially if you will be touring with another person a lot of the time so you can split the load. Once you have your tent nothing is stopping you from trying a tarp or using the tent fly without the tent body as a uber tarp.

Unless your touring is very similar all the time you will likely want different shelter solutions for different trips.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

^^ i second that. 

Nothing wrong w some extra space and some comfort.

One of my favorite tents was the Moss Olympic. A 2+ tent that a friend and i traveled around the country in. It had some extra room for my gear and a door and vestibule on each end. Very durable water proof shelter but heavy and bulky as it was designed as a four season tent.

If budget is tight then modding your gear is a great option too like the Wenzel tent above.


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## NickSmolinske (Mar 8, 2008)

> A tent will make no difference to a bear.


*NOT TRUE!* It turns out that when you look at the statistics of bear attacks, tent camping is safer in Grizzly country than tarp camping. In black bear country it doesn't matter because black bear predatory attacks at night are rare.

It's counter-intuitive, but the stats don't lie. It's probably a psychological thing for the bear, when they see a tent they don't know what's inside it. That said, ALL bear attacks are incredibly rare so even with a tarp it's not a big risk. But I do bring a mid in grizzly country - it's not much heavier than a tarp and it gives a little more piece of mind. At home in the southwest I'm more likely to go tent-free and just bring my sleeping bag, pad, and a polycro groundsheet.

Source: Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

vikb said:


> ....Unless your touring is very similar all the time you will likely want different shelter solutions for different trips.


This.

I use tents, tarps and/or a hammock, depending on the type of trip, season, bug factor, etc. But in general, a full-on floored tent is my last choice, that I only take when I really need to.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Kirkerik said:


> Whether you are in a tent or hammock going to a quilt instead of a sleeping bag can save you significant pack space and weight, even in the winter.
> 
> For tents i like the single wall tents that are basically modified/refined and embellished tarps. Being single wall you have to learn some ventilation basics but i'd recommend that w any type of tent. Having said that, most modern single wall tents are designed to channell any condensation out the perimeter. They even are available w screens and bath tub floors. Oh, and they are often lighter and less bulky than double wall tents. Have a look!
> 
> ...


I'm a plus one on the quilt comment.... I dearly love my Cumulus quilt. As someone on another forum mentioned... quilts, generally, work better with air matresses. At least in my opinion. I also agree with the single wall. I also add that side entry is a HUGE plus after a long day in the saddle. It also makes pee breaks so much easier than squirming out/in a front entry.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

I have a bivy and two tents. I prefer the tents for less condensation, moving around room, privacy, bug and rain protection and ease of getting in and out. I have a two person Eureka spitfire for car camping or bikepacking with the wife. I have a Tarptent notch for solo bikepacking and an REI bivy.
I have never much bothered with a ground sheet and have had tents last forever. Other things gave out before the floor (usually zippers). I am pretty fastidious about prepping my tent site because rocks and twigs are uncomfortable to sleep on and are hard on blow up air pads.
Never tried a hammock and doubt I ever will. Hard to hang them off cholla!


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

jlt199 said:


> .Does a tarp system really save you that much weight?


So far on my bikepacking trips I have used ground cover and sleeping bag. No tent. no bivy. I did not want to carry the weight.
















My oversized ground cover is great to lay gear on and keep it out of the dirt. I got my from Home depot for free. It was left over lumbar wrap and they were going to throw it out. I picked it and trimmed to 6x6.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

jlt199 said:


> Does a tarp system really save you that much weight?


It certainly can. My UL tarp (11' x 7.5') and one 48" carbon pole weighs 1lb.

As long as bugs aren't a factor, it provides all the shelter I generally need.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Based on my measly two weeks riding/camping in the Canadian Rockies, I wouldn't take a tarp without a bug net. At one point I had around 100 mosquitoes camped out in the space between the netting and fly of my tent. And by the time you add a net to a tarp you're generally getting into tent weight territory.

BTW, s&c has the SD Tensegrity 1 Elite on sale for $139, and you can get 4% back from active junky. (The two-person is around $240.) It's made to set up with trekking poles, but it's pretty easy to source lightweight tarp poles.

I've used the 2-person version of this tent pretty extensively, and it's been excellent.


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## cbr6fs (Apr 1, 2008)

Usually prefer a tent

Current tent of choice is the Zpacks Duplex 618g in .75 CF

It's a roomy tent for 2 people, absolute palace for 1

It's single skin but has bug netting and a bathtub floor so it's effective against mossies in bug season

It's design uses 2 x hiking poles as supports, so you will also have to add the weight for 2 poles mine come in at 65g each

They started doing a freestanding option as well, haven't seen or tried that.

Only downside is that being a single skin tent it's been designed to be well ventilated, which it is.
Unfortunately that means if it's blowing a gale it gets to be pretty drafty inside..

If i'm expecting really bad weather i take my Tarptent Scarp2 again just about roomy enough for 2 people absolutely huge for 2.

As i have the Duplex for good weather i spec'd my Scarp2 with a solid inner, in cooler temps you can really feel the difference, i also spec'd mind with a slightly thicker 9mm pole as it's my foul weather shelter

My Scarp2 with solid inner comes in at 1534g, the pole 230g

They also sell X-poles, i bought these but to be honest i haven't found any need to use them, the tent is strong enough without them.
If you're likely to be camping in snow they will help with snow load though.
My X-poles come in at 491g

Tried a fair few tents in different styles, these are now my goto tents, they serve anything i want to do outdoors, except my hammock of course


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

NickSmolinske said:


> *NOT TRUE!* It turns out that when you look at the statistics of bear attacks, tent camping is safer in Grizzly country than tarp camping. In black bear country it doesn't matter because black bear predatory attacks at night are rare.
> 
> It's counter-intuitive, but the stats don't lie. It's probably a psychological thing for the bear, when they see a tent they don't know what's inside it. That said, ALL bear attacks are incredibly rare so even with a tarp it's not a big risk. But I do bring a mid in grizzly country - it's not much heavier than a tarp and it gives a little more piece of mind. At home in the southwest I'm more likely to go tent-free and just bring my sleeping bag, pad, and a polycro groundsheet.
> 
> Source: Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero


I'd wager that has much to do with how people react vs the actual vessel they're sleeping in. With no "barrier" in place people are much more likely to get animated. If a bear is bold enough to come into camp it's a dangerous bear period.


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## TubeSSnapper (Nov 15, 2004)

The type of riding really matters. Technical ST with fun features is more fun with less weight. Most of my day is spend doing that, so hunkering down in my bivvy to sleep only, and not "chill", is worth it.
Ride fun trails all day with breaks along the way. Hunker.
Then wake and repeat.


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## alias (May 9, 2005)

how did you manage to carry those two bundles of shrink wrapped firewood?


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

That's at a state park in massachusetts. I bought it at the ranger station and they brought it to my camp on a four wheeler. I like a campfire and hot meal as part of my evening.

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## injected59 (Aug 14, 2016)

I did a lot of shopping around last fall before deciding on the North Face Stormbreak I'll link below. I have a couple rides coming up that I'm gonna need a tent for, and it seemed to have the best mix of weight, packed size, and durability for my needs. I'm 5'6"/ 150 and though I wouldn't go so far as to call it roomy, it did house myself and pack inside just fine. A 6' 180lb person may have a different opinion. Packed up- the thing is about the size of a lg thermos and weighs like 2-3 lbs. Be honest with yourself on how many times you're going to use this thing before even considering forking out 3 bills for a big agnes or the like. It seems pretty well built and can imagine I will be using it for many years to come. As far as bears go- I have yet to see a bear become aggressive at the site of a tent. A human rolling around in a deep sleep however, well I'm not a bear, but I'll deal with 2 extra lbs on my bike or back than take that risk, and I [email protected]#$ng hate bugs with a passion. I also bought an inflatable sleeping pad and x-pillow and if packed right you can fit all of these in with the tent and get a good nights sleep.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cbr6fs said:


> Usually prefer a tent
> 
> Current tent of choice is the Zpacks Duplex 618g in .75 CF


What do you use for poles with your ZPacks?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Z-Packs sells very reasonably priced carbon poles in pre-cut lengths to work with their various shelters:

Zpacks Carbon Fiber Tent Poles

I bought one to replace the heavy aluminum pole on my Nemo Apollo last year, and it has been great. Extremely light and has withstood 40+ mph winds no prob.


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## injected59 (Aug 14, 2016)

Smithhammer said:


> Z-Packs sells very reasonably priced carbon poles in pre-cut lengths to work with their various shelters:
> 
> Zpacks Carbon Fiber Tent Poles
> 
> I bought one to replace the heavy aluminum pole on my Nemo Apollo last year, and it has been great. Extremely light and has withstood 40+ mph winds no prob.


Cool, Had no idea these were offered like this


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## cbr6fs (Apr 1, 2008)

vikb said:


> What do you use for poles with your ZPacks?


As Smithhammer said i use the Zpacks poles, they're 65g each and you'd need 2

They do the job but i wouldn't want to ride out a windy night using them.

Mind you i don't fancy spending another windy night in the Duplex either, so they go together well.

My main use is backpacking rather than bikepacking, the advantage with bikepacking is that i can cover a LOT more ground to search for a sheltered camp spot if the weather is terrible.

With this in mind the Duplex works very well for bikepacking.

Packs small, lightweight, massive room inside for one person, single skin but very very ventilated, if it's raining but without much wind you can even leave the doors open without the inside getting wet as the peaks have a small amount of overhang.

For me i much much prefer side entry tents, at 49 years old crawling out of front openers is literally a pain in the neck, and back, and knees 

By far the best advantage with side entry tents though is on a mild night you can sleep with all the doors open and have fantastic views from both sides.

Hiking trip rather than bikepacking but this is the view i woke up to, slept with the door open and opened my eyes to this...










As you can see, even with the doors closed there is plenty of ventilation










As i say, great tent for mild weather, if you plan on bad weather, especially windy then i'd plan for extra time to find a sheltered camp spot or look for a different tent.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

JoePAz said:


> So far on my bikepacking trips I have used ground cover and sleeping bag. No tent. no bivy. I did not want to carry the weight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 So no bugs or rain? What would you do in a thunderstorm? Check out tyvek for a cheap and light ground cloth/ shelter. Get the tyvek tape to put 2 lengths together, then wash it, the tape works really well.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I use tent and I love it.
It is my single person mountaineering tent RAB Latok but I take it only on longer trips and gravel.

And not only that. If route is singletrack and hard, no way you will enjoy it with a heavy loaded bike. Those trips I have to take bivy and sleeping pad. One is coming and I have to experiment with my new Thermarest sleeping pad and pillow from Marmot.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

i use tarp. i like minimal setups. my tarp is diy polycro, weights nothing, packs minimal. with my klymit inertia x frame that packs in a size of soda can and sleeping bag compressed to a bit bigger than soda can, my basic sleeping kit is as small as it gets. if i expect bugs i carry a large sheet of bug fabric that i throw over me at night (weights nothing, packs small). if i expect colder temps i add sol bivy that i use as liner, agin, weights nothing packs small. i believe this is ideal for singletrack experience like colorado trail or such where riding loaded bike is no fun. i tend to bikepack in summer only so that i can carry light sleeping bag and few clothes.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

To use Cavo's setup, we at West Coast have to watch weather forecast and leave work on short notice. Marine climate, high mountains with extensive rain-forests and islands with deep waters, creating unique micro-climates. Bugs are relentless here. Tent helps and I love mine. I don't worry about bears.

Weekend trips with that kind of minimal setup are possible.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Just to make point about climate again ... 

Our city weather reports (Greater Vancouver, BC) is going to be soon divided to 5 weather zones and forecasts. Can you imagine planing trips further inland or on Vancouver Island.  I love California, Colorado, Montana, Idaho and Utah ... Absolutely!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

If you do chose tent, my son is a boy scout and I've been impressed with his MSR Hubba Hubba NX.

Really well made and has withstood some really bad weather


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

MikeR91 said:


> If you've ever woken to the sound of a bear sniffing the corner of your tent


I've woken up to that sound......until my (now ex) husband confessed to rubbing his foot against the tent fabric to make it sound like there was a bear snurffling the side of our tent. I was convinced we were going to die in some kind of epic _Night of the Grizzlies _scene.

Anyway, tents all the way.


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## PL Scott (May 29, 2014)

I too have asked the question on type of shelter. Since I'm in Sacramento, Calif. region, bugs are always an issue. But when I go somewhere else I'll research the conditions so I can plan. Currently, I use the marmot Eos 1P since I could not pass up the deal. It does not have the fly, so it cost me only $25 instead of $250 or more. I do carry a cheap tarp but again I know our weather patterns and have not had rain while using it.

I just found out about the North Face Stormbreaker mentioned by Bikeny and will consider it. But for a tent, it must be a side entry. I used a front entry tent but learned that at 6'2" it is too much work. I would prefer to use no shelter but I don't like bugs crawling on me and I hate mosquitoes. 

I really enjoy and benefit from this forum as I get to hear different perspectives and experiences so I can reconsider my choices.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

PL Scott said:


> I too have asked the question on type of shelter. Since I'm in Sacramento, Calif. region, bugs are always an issue. But when I go somewhere else I'll research the conditions so I can plan. Currently, I use the marmot Eos 1P since I could not pass up the deal. It does not have the fly, so it cost me only $25 instead of $250 or more. I do carry a cheap tarp but again I know our weather patterns and have not had rain while using it.
> 
> I just found out about the North Face Stormbreaker mentioned by Bikeny and will consider it. But for a tent, it must be a side entry. I used a front entry tent but learned that at 6'2" it is too much work. I would prefer to use no shelter but I don't like bugs crawling on me and I hate mosquitoes.
> 
> I really enjoy and benefit from this forum as I get to hear different perspectives and experiences so I can reconsider my choices.


I was not the one who mentioned the Stormbreaker, that was someone else. I actually use the same tent as you, the Marmot EOS. I do have the fly, and will take it depending on weather. I'm in the northeast, so bugs are always a concern, and in the summer so is humidity and condensation. In a perfect world, I'd have some kind of cuben fiber tent from Zpacks, but I can't justify that kind of money right now!

BTW, the TNF Stormbreaker is certainly cheap, but it's heavy.


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## injected59 (Aug 14, 2016)

bikeny said:


> I was not the one who mentioned the Stormbreaker, that was someone else. I actually use the same tent as you, the Marmot EOS. I do have the fly, and will take it depending on weather. I'm in the northeast, so bugs are always a concern, and in the summer so is humidity and condensation. In a perfect world, I'd have some kind of cuben fiber tent from Zpacks, but I can't justify that kind of money right now!
> 
> BTW, the TNF Stormbreaker is certainly cheap, but it's heavy.


That was me. I guess you could call me a bikepacking virgin. I have big dreams though. I didn't realize how "minimalist" you guys got until reading through this thread carefully. I must say that after feeling my pack last night with tent, small stove, food, lightweight bag, sleep pad, clothes, tube, tools...it is quite heavy, and as some of you more experienced folk put it, I would not want to ride all day with this weight. I can see why the tent is the first thing to go. Still don't know if I could deal with mosquitos. probably would have to rig up some kind of bug net over my head. Thanks for everyone's knowledge.


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## injected59 (Aug 14, 2016)

At menards picking up some wood and thought this may be of use to some of you. 99cents for 41x44 right next to tarp tape. Can probably tape two together for temp shelter or foot print









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

Thanks all for your comments. From everything you have said I have made the following decisions:

1) Tent it is. I don't want to get a close up view of a bear sniffing my face, can you imagine waking up to that! Plus, it rains in the mountains and forecasts can change quickly.

2) I would like some kind of bug protection. Either a two fly tent or a modified one-walled one.

3) I'm going to get the lightest, smallest tent I can afford. Which after some research seems to be the MEC Spark 1. Although I'm open to other suggestions. 

I love the modification that @connolm made. I might consider something like that too. Especially if bikepacking becomes my thing, which I'm hoping it will. If I travel to warmer, more stable climates, with no bears, then I would definitely consider a tarp setup.

Please keep all your thoughts coming. I've found your knowledge and experiences to be invaluable. Thanks for taking the time to share


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

She&I said:


> Tool up for the outing and conditions.
> 
> Many days or weeks out, a UL 1P tent (2P with wife). Several days with a good forecast, pad and sleeping bag only. Several days out with iffy forecast, worth toting a tent. IME bivy bags are for survival, not sleep.


I have several setups and do the same. Bikepacking in the southwest with a clear forecast, I just have ground sheet/pad/sleeping bag. Add sleeping bag liner and/or bivy if it is colder. I've had an Outdoor research Alpine bivy for years (2 lbs). It has saved me through some unexpected rainy nights, but I'd rather be in a tent if it's raining. I am more tempted to bring it if there is high likelihood I'll be camping where it will be damp, as it keeps heavy condensation off the sleeping bag. I have a much ligher SOL escape bivy that is also good for this but about the size of a can of coke. To be honest I use the OR bivy mostly for car camping these days, if I am moving place to place. To pack up let a bit of air out of the pad and roll the whole thing up in one package and throw it in the back seat, takes about 30 sec to pack up camp!

If there is rain in the forecast or we're in the mountains or place where thunderstorms are likely or weather is unpredictable, I'll always bring a tent. A bivy may get you through the night but it isn't something you want to hang out in all afternoon while a storm passes. At least you can move around a bit in a tent. I have a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1, at 2 lbs it is the same size/weight as my OR bivy. It works, but it is not very stable in wind as it is narrow and acts like a sail when caught in wind gusts. I tend to use it places where weather is less stable it so tends to see lots of wind, something I didn't consider much when I bought it. The next tent I buy will have a more stable shape, and will also have a side entry rather than entry at the end. This BA tent is kind of a pain to get in and out of.

If I were the OP I'd get an UL tent with best combo of price/weight. You can always use the tent without the fly, or with just the fly, to reduce weight. Going without the tent in nice weather is free! If bugs are a problem you can just wear a cheap head net. For ground sheet I got a lumber wrapper from the local building supply store it is tyvek, but thicker than what you can buy by the sheet - indestructible. I got two sheets worth from one wrapper.


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## cbr6fs (Apr 1, 2008)

jlt199 said:


> 3) I'm going to get the lightest, smallest tent I can afford. Which after some research seems to be the MEC Spark 1. Although I'm open to other suggestions.


$5 cheaper, 200g lighter
https://www.tarptent.com/momentdw.html

Personally if i wanted a cheapish (compared to cuben fiber anyways) roomy single person tent then i'd buy this
https://www.tarptent.com/scarp1.html

I own the 2 person version and it's a great tent, i have no qualms taking it out in the absolute worst weather.
2 porches, side entry, no hiking poles needed, great supplier with fantastic after sales service.

Whatever tent you buy it's worth checking to see if the seams are taped or sealed.
On most tents (the ones i listed included) you will NEED to seal the seams.

Most manufacturers offer a seam sealing service (Tarptent charge $35), alternatively you can do it yourself.
There are many tutorials on youtube, basically you water down silicon sealant with white spirit and paint it over the seams.

I have "got away" with not doing it on some tents, in wet weather the seams will seep in water if it's not done though.
As i say if the seams are taped it's ok, no seam sealing needed.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Zoran said:


> To use Cavo's setup, we at West Coast have to watch weather forecast and leave work on short notice. Marine climate, high mountains with extensive rain-forests and islands with deep waters, creating unique micro-climates. Bugs are relentless here. Tent helps and I love mine. I don't worry about bears.
> 
> Weekend trips with that kind of minimal setup are possible.


Can't speak for Cavo but I agree using a minimal setup requires more thought and attention to ones surroundings. Know the weather, be smart with campsite selection, etc.

For me a minimal setup, tarp and bug net ( around 1 lb total) is great. Never died yet and had lots of interesting experiences I mast have missed out with a tent. Plus lighter packs all day-yeah tarps.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Should also mention my switch to a tarp was directly related to my decrease of time spent in camp. I stay moving on the trail up to and past dark most days, that combined with early starts means I only need a shelter for sleeping.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Living in the arid high Rockies, we are lucky that our mosquito season is pretty short. And that's really about the only bug that concerns me. If they are really bad, I'll carry a lightweight headnet and impenetrable wind shell, and I have a small bug cover for the top half of my hammock. But I've also spent many nights in the desert with just a tarp or nothing over me at all, and where there are certainly more little crawly things that might bite, and I've never had a problem. Not to say it can't happen, but I think people worry about it more than they really need to.

As others have said, campsite selection can also go a long way. If you camp near water sources - expect more bugs. If you camp on high exposed ridgelines for some reason, expect more wind. For example. Of course, we don't always have that luxury of choice, but most of the time we do, if you just take the time to scout a little bit before just unloading and setting your shelter up.

As far as bears go, I wouldn't rely on any type of nylon shelter over another for bear prevention - bad bear encounters are largely prevented by 1) not giving them a reason to investigate your camp in the first place (cooking and storing smelly things a good distance away from your sleeping area) and 2) avoiding surprise encounters by having continual situational awareness and making noise.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

leeboh said:


> So no bugs or rain? What would you do in a thunderstorm? Check out tyvek for a cheap and light ground cloth/ shelter. Get the tyvek tape to put 2 lengths together, then wash it, the tape works really well.


No bugs and no rain. Arizona is great! The ground cover is big enough to fold over my sleeping backat night if it rained. That said I have luxury not planning bike packing trips when I know it will rain.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm a fair weather rider too! NOAA.gov for weather forecasts. I especially like the forecast graphs that predict hourly weather.

Materhorn above brings up a good point about staying active up to dusk/dark. I have that small Wenzel ten as well as a Big Agnes Flycreek UL1. Both are ridiculously small inside. I can't imagine spending more time in there than necessary. I've been caught in rain with the BA and I basically decided to keep moving anyway because I didn't want to set it up and sit out the rain in such a small space.

I also carry a small patch of plastic Painter's Drop-cloth (maybe 4x8'), some duct tape, and several meters of string. In New England, trees are predominant. So in rain, I can pick a campsite and rig up a crude tarp to work under by tying to trees. The trick is to put 1x1" square of duct tape on the corners of the plastic, cut small holes through it, and then use that as makeshift "grommets" for the string. Otherwise, the string will just pull out the plastic. The whole thing might weigh 200g and has saved my butt numerous times. It better to sit and work under the makeshift tarp than in a miniscule tent.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

So I stopped by my local EMS yesterday, which is going out of business. They had some 1 person tents left that were 40% off, a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1, BA Fly Creek UL1, BA Fly Creek HV UL1, and EMS Velocity 1. I could have gotten the Fly Creek for about $210, but I ended up passing on all of them. The EMS tent, while nice, is almost exactly the same as the Marmot EOS 1P I have, except a bit more headroom because of an extra cross pole on top, weighs the same. I actually set up the Fly Creek in the store, and yeah, it's small inside! and the end door makes getting in/out more of a hassle as others have mentioned. It's also not completely freestanding, 2 corners need to be staked out. I like the Copper Spur, side entry with more room inside, but would have cost $250 still and only save 6 oz over what I have.

At this point I'll just stick with what I have, and if I all of a sudden find $500 I'll spring for a Z-packs tent of some kind.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

If you're looking for a lightweight floorless option (which can be used in conjunction with a bug net when needed) that offers more weather protection than a typical tarp, and that isn't crazy expensive, the Nemo 'Apollo' has proved to be a good option on numerous trips for me. Plenty of room for two people and some gear (or 1 person and a bike inside). And it isn't crazy expensive compared to some of the other options being discussed.


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## injected59 (Aug 14, 2016)

Smithhammer said:


> If you're looking for a lightweight floorless option (which can be used in conjunction with a bug net when needed) and that isn't crazy expensive, the Nemo 'Apollo' has proved to be a good option on numerous trips for me. Plenty of room for two people and some gear (or 1 person and a bike inside). And it isn't crazy expensive compared to some of the other options being discussed.


Nice

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

injected59 said:


> Nice


The whole setup, with a 48" carbon pole, 6 ti stakes and tie outs weighs 1.7lbs.

And you can always get one of these to go with it if bugs are an issue:

NEMO Escape Pod 1 Person Bivy for Bikepacking and Camping | NEMO


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## PL Scott (May 29, 2014)

The appy trails mark 3 is another alternative floor less tent/tarp at $99 bucks.


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

So, I went with the MEC Spark 1, as the lightest and smallest pack sized tent I could afford and get in time for my trip. However, after two nights in it, I may be regretting that decision. Here's why:

1) It's a very drafty tent because the outer fly is so far off the ground, probably over 6 inches. Even with a -9C rated bag and wearing thermals, I was barely warm enough.

2) The vestibule is tiny, that mixed with the fly being so far off the ground meant that there was hardly room for my shoes to stay dry in there, let alone any gear. And there's not room for any gear in the tent either.

3) there are no guy-lines, or anywhere to attach any.

On the plus side it was light and small and easy to carry and it did stay dry, even after an entire day of rain. I also didn't get any bugs or creepy crawlies in my tent and wasn't eaten by bears! 

So, because of the shortcomings (in my mind) of this tent I will be revisiting all of your suggestions and making an more informed choice with more time to allow for proper research and shipping. Plus, after my experience of this weekend, I now know what to look for in a tent; light, small pack size, a long outer fly, a bucket inner fly and a good sized vestibule. Does such a this exist I wonder


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

jlt199 said:


> So, I went with the MEC Spark 1, as the lightest and smallest pack sized tent I could afford and get in time for my trip. However, after two nights in it, I may be regretting that decision. Here's why:
> 
> 1) It's a very drafty tent because the outer fly is so far off the ground, probably over 6 inches. Even with a -9C rated bag and wearing thermals, I was barely warm enough.
> 
> ...


Hate to say but you're gonna get what you pay for. As an assistant scout master I see all kinds of tents, one of the reasons I had no problem spending the money on the MSR.


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## jlt199 (Jun 4, 2017)

TwoTone said:


> Hate to say but you're gonna get what you pay for. As an assistant scout master I see all kinds of tents, one of the reasons I had no problem spending the money on the MSR.


The MSR Hubba is definitely one I'm considering, although, given the weather yesterday I'm also really interested in tents that pitch outer first to make sure that the inner fly stays dry


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