# e-Road Bikes are filling up hospital beds...



## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I just visited a good friend of mine at the hospital. He was riding his eBike fast through some sand on a local beach trail, lost control and crashed. Broke his femur near the hip. He was riding with a group, none of them had helmets (most road eBikers don't). His bike just has standard mtb tires, while the rest of the group had fat tires. I know everyone in the group and none of them rode mountain or actively rode bikes prior to getting their eBikes. That seems to be a standard rule of thumb with eBikes. Too lazy to want to ride a non-powered, but willing to go 30 to 40 mph on a powered bike. Oh, and no riding skills, going fast on a 50 lbs + bike. The back tires are always almost bald from skidding.
While I was at the hospital, I ran into a Physical Therapist that I know. She said they have so many eBike patients it's like an epidemic. Last weekend a woman died and her two little kids were seriously injured when they went over the side of a river embankment going very fast on an eBike. She went face first into boulders (no helmet - not sure it would have help). Very sad... Again people not having real bike skills and understanding weight and momentum and the lack of control those bring. eBiker's, take it easy.. slow down.. and enjoy the ride.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

How long before the ebike loving admin shuts this one down? Should be interesting. Sad to say but I too see a lot moped riders who are in way over their heads. Worse yet with no proper gear. 


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

You should be writing headlines for mainstream internet news sights. Their headlines don’t match their stories either. “Filling up hospital beds”?


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

These are not typically Pedal Assist mountain bikes. Though I do see road only people riding full-suspension pedal assists.. Why? Just look at the tire wear and you can tell they are pavement only. We have a few people in our mtb group who ride pedal assist bikes. They have physical issues and it helps them keep up with us. I'm glad they have them. They also know how to ride, and wear helmets and pads.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

BmanInTheD said:


> You should be writing headlines for mainstream internet news sights. Their headlines don’t match their stories either. “Filling up hospital beds”?


? The ortho dept. has more than usual patients due to eBike crashes. A lot of them are brain injuries. Not wear helmets. ? Oh.. _Shimano EP8-RS_ motor. Got it.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

trmn8er said:


> How long before the ebike loving admin shuts this one down? Should be interesting. Sad to say but I too see a lot moped riders who are in way over their heads. Worse yet with no proper gear.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's always fun till someone gets hurt That's why I always get hurt. I like to have fun!


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Are these injuries on class 3 ebikes then? Because I thought the most common ebikes were class 1, and their pedal assist stops at what... 15mph? 20mph? Quick for sure, but by no means unattainable with a normal bike (especially on road). 30-40mph is cooking by almost any standard.

The no helmets thing is a bummer though.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

ocnLogan said:


> Are these injuries on class 3 ebikes then? Because I thought the most common ebikes were class 1, and their pedal assist stops at what... 15mph? 20mph? Quick for sure, but by no means unattainable with a normal bike (especially on road). 30-40mph is cooking by almost any standard.
> 
> The no helmets thing is a bummer though.


I don't know enough about them. I've only ridden one once.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Tall BMX'r said:


> I don't know enough about them. I've only ridden one once.


Yeah, I've spent about 30 seconds on an ebike, in a parking garage. And even then, I'm not sure what type it was.

I just looked into the classes/types a while ago to better understand the land management aspect/etc. I think the definition varies a bit by country. But in the US, I'm pretty sure the pedal assist for class 1 ebikes is 20mph, or something like that. And IIRC, the pedal assist turns off on the class 3 ones at 28mph or thereabouts.

Its interesting to see that this is kind of a "thing" though, especially on road ebikes.

I know its come up in various other threads about mountain ebikes. Because typically/often, the more difficult trails are located higher up on top of the mountain, and it takes a good amount of fitness to even get to the top. But ebikes allow relative newbies to get there, potentially where their equipment/wallet has outpaced their skillset (not that that can't happen with normal bikes, but its easier with ebikes). But this is the first I've heard of it being a "thing" with road ebikes.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

The biggest problem in our area are underage kids even elementary school age kids just blasting through traffic, stop signs, cutting across lanes, on sidewalks, in store parking lots in full throttle. No helmets, with a friend on the back and both looking at their phones while doing it! I heard they are planning on including eBikes in with motorcycles and mopeds as far as having a license goes. They will need to have a learners permit and be at least 15 and a half yrs old minimum. Good idea!


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## Deeerek07 (Jun 12, 2021)

While riding down PCH in Socal, I see people on eBikes using throttle only doing 20+ mph weaving through the regular bikes and walkers. It's very upsetting, to say the least. I'm surprised I haven't seen any serious accidents yet.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Darwin awards

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Aha!

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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

good thing this wasnt in the ebike forum. they dont take negative reviews over there. kinda like anti vaxers.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

There are some actual epidemics.

Also I'm not sure how you'd get a helmet onto your femur


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## Grinchy8 (Jul 6, 2021)

I had an ebike. Modded it out pretty good. Thing is you can only have straight line fun on it. 
I got a full face helmet almost immediately. It was fat tire and road only, and it could go traffic speeds. It weighed like 60 lbs. That is a dangerous place to be.
Happy to have traded it in for more mods on my fsr.


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

I’m not an advocate of eBiking, but the OP’s thread title, initial post, and subsequent posts all suck.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Danimal said:


> I’m not an advocate of eBiking, but the OP’s thread title, initial post, and subsequent posts all suck.


Thank you. 😊


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I get along fine with all mountain biker's no matter what they ride, unless they are idiots. No matter what they ride. My wife rides eMTB's with a group that rides them. She also rides regular mtb's. If someone had an XXL framed eMTB that I could ride, I'd ride it. Some day I may only ride eMTB's. I have an open mind and a good attitude


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

This always happens when a 'new thing' comes along. It happened with skateboards, inline skates, fixed gears, electric scooters, and now e-bikes.

It's not e-bikes. It's humanity. It's people trying a new thing with ignorance and (sometimes) arrogance and sheer stupidity. 

Give it a few years, it'll mellow out. The mass of trend followers will wash out, the truly interested will adopt them with care, and the smart lifers will bring in a steady flow of people who are clued in properly, and the expected amount of injuries from 'life happens' will never go away.

I don't think there's anything innately wrong with e-bikes that will see them get legislated/shunned out of existence, like what happened to tricycle ATVs in the 80's. But maybe some new laws will come about over time.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Tall BMX'r said:


> Though I do see road only people riding full-suspension pedal assists.. Why?


2 reasons. 
They look cool and they are comfy. 
Probably 99% of all sold emtbs will at best see some mild fire roads.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Tall BMX'r said:


> elementary school age kids just blasting through traffic, stop signs, cutting across lanes, on sidewalks, in store parking lots in full throttle. No helmets, with a friend on the back and both looking at their phones while doing it!


Hyperbole much?

Clearly you're trolling/not serious or you're delusional.


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## c_m_shooter (Mar 8, 2007)

Tall BMX'r said:


> I just visited a good friend of mine at the hospital. He was riding his eBike fast through some sand on a local beach trail, lost control and crashed. Broke his femur near the hip. He was riding with a group, none of them had helmets (most road eBikers don't). His bike just has standard mtb tires, while the rest of the group had fat tires. I know everyone in the group and none of them rode mountain or actively rode bikes prior to getting their eBikes. That seems to be a standard rule of thumb with eBikes. Too lazy to want to ride a non-powered, but willing to go 30 to 40 mph on a powered bike. Oh, and no riding skills, going fast on a 50 lbs + bike. The back tires are always almost bald from skidding.
> While I was at the hospital, I ran into a Physical Therapist that I know. She said they have so many eBike patients it's like an epidemic. Last weekend a woman died and her two little kids were seriously injured when they went over the side of a river embankment going very fast on an eBike. She went face first into boulders (no helmet - not sure it would have help). Very sad... Again people not having real bike skills and understanding weight and momentum and the lack of control those bring. eBiker's, take it easy.. slow down.. and enjoy the ride.


Maybe ebikers should be forced to get a shot of some type....


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Wear a helmet driving a car. Better yet have a passenger doit. Stare at the vehicle driver next to you.
Disclaimer: No offense intended to those that actually do need a helmet on always for some valid reason.


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

schnee said:


> This always happens when a 'new thing' comes along. It happened with skateboards, inline skates, fixed gears, electric scooters, and now e-bikes.
> 
> It's not e-bikes. It's humanity. It's people trying a new thing with ignorance and (sometimes) arrogance and sheer stupidity.
> 
> ...


Mostly this. 

When NYC had e-bike sharing (Lime, Jump etc.) I definitely saw an uptick of people arriving in the ER after crashes. Even with the renewed interest in bikes during the pandemic, I haven't seen that level of people coming in as bicycle accidents/collisions. So part of it is lack of availability, but part of it was/is definitely "ooooh, shiny fast thing, me likey." Add in lack of skill/understanding and you have a recipe for not so great outcomes.


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## Kmccann137 (Jul 10, 2017)

Natural selection?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Bikeworks said:


> Mostly this.
> 
> When NYC had e-bike sharing (Lime, Jump etc.)


Had? Have they done away with it? What about all the motorized scooters, are those gone as well?


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

chazpat said:


> Had? Have they done away with it? What about all the motorized scooters, are those gone as well?


I think Citibike still has e-bike options. But yea, there was a big deal over contracts IIRC, then they announced some other company was getting the contract (non e-bike) and then you heard (and saw) nothing. I'm sure it was another shyster deal by the current administration.

AFAIK the scooters are still around, but not as prevalent as the e-bikes were.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

c_m_shooter said:


> Maybe ebikers should be forced to get a shot of some type....


If there was a vaccine for lazy I'd make it mandatory! 👹


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

what the op said is somewhat true.

eg. i had a discussion this summer with a 50yr old overweight woman who was looking to buy an ebike. she was on a regular bike at the time on a city trail. her reason. we have some cool trails at our campsite and i want to ride them but need an ebike. a regular bike wasnt an option for her and her husband.

so yes they are being bought by people who absolutely shouldnt be on singletrack for reasons of fitness and skills. this leads to a greater incidence of accidents and injury (on singletrack) or as ebikers put it. rapid skill set acquirement and time off from work.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

vikb said:


> If there was a vaccine for lazy I'd make it mandatory!


I bet there's some dude in a bad part of town that can hook you up with a shot of something unlazy  might be a bad road to go down though lol

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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I got a commuter ebike to use as a grocery-getter. Will hit 28 mph assisted, no throttle. I can see these bikes causing some issues because we often combine pedestrian and bike paths, unlike Euro countries that have far more common sense. They also allow many people to ride bikes who previously wouldn't or couldn't, many of these folks are unexperienced and will certainly crash. With an ebike the crashes may happen at higher speed, which is more likely to cause injury. But it's just how it goes here on earth. I LOVE my ebike btw...


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I live in a relatively affluent SoCal beach town. Lots of wealthy parents who don't want to drive there kids everywhere. So they buy them top of the line eBikes to get around themselves. These kids age from probably 8 to 16 yrs old. There are hundreds of them now in our town. They don't know the traffic rules, nor did I when I was that age. They do ride at top speed always, and almost always ride with their phone in their hand. The city has been trying to deal with it, but the adults who have them are having just as much fun and don't really want any restrictions. My friend owns a surf / ebike shop. He's been doing really well through this pandemic. I want him to do well. They are great to get to the beach with your surfboard. My neighbors all have them, but I rarely see older ones (my age) ride them. The young couples go with there kids in child's seat or on tandem bench style back seat. This scares me as a parent because of the speed they ride at with these toddlers on the back. 

Just last night my wife and I were at a brewery having dinner. A dad and his two year old were eating next to us. The dad finishes his beer and they leave. We see them speed off across and into the flow of traffic on a busy Pacific Coast Hwy on his eCruiser with his toddler in the baby seat. My wife said OMG! if you ever did anything stupid like that with our kids, I would be so pissed! 
BTW, there was probably 20 eBikes parked outside that brewery I wanted one right then! Seriously.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm an e-bike advocate.
This breaks my bleeting heart.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

BmanInTheD said:


> You should be writing headlines for mainstream internet news sights. Their headlines don’t match their stories either. “Filling up hospital beds”?





Tall BMX'r said:


> ? The ortho dept. has more than usual patients due to eBike crashes. A lot of them are brain injuries. Not wear helmets. ? Oh.. _Shimano EP8-RS_ motor. Got it.


The ortho department treats brain injury patients now? Interesting - need a new headline for that, too. It should be backed up by at least one fake published study to seem valid though.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

This has been a noticed issue in San Diego as well.

city of Carlsbad had a public meeting about it a few months back









E Bike Safety - City of Carlsbad Event (street use)


I got this interesting email from the City of Carlsbad/Carlsbad School District recently: Good Afternoon Carlsbad Unified School District Parents, Guardians and Families. The following is an important safety message being shared with you on behalf of the City of Carlsbad. Summer is here, and...




www.mtbr.com


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Tried an e scooter with a friend. He's clumsy and didn't crash. I tried to take it off road, worked great until I hit some soft sand ightly off trail. Immediately went over the bars at 15mph. Bruised and bloody I learned my lesson. I'm a pretty experienced crasher, still severely bruised my calf on the "head tube". Not much give on these heavy machines... Oh well, I knew it was going to be a wild ride, the geometry on these things are sketchy at 5mph let alone 15.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Tall BMX'r said:


> I live in a relatively affluent SoCal beach town. Lots of wealthy parents who don't want to drive there kids everywhere. So they buy them top of the line eBikes to get around themselves. These kids age from probably 8 to 16 yrs old. There are hundreds of them now in our town. They don't know the traffic rules, nor did I when I was that age. They do ride at top speed always, and almost always ride with their phone in their hand. The city has been trying to deal with it, but the adults who have them are having just as much fun and don't really want any restrictions. My friend owns a surf / ebike shop. He's been doing really well through this pandemic. I want him to do well. They are great to get to the beach with your surfboard. My neighbors all have them, but I rarely see older ones (my age) ride them. The young couples go with there kids in child's seat or on tandem bench style back seat. This scares me as a parent because of the speed they ride at with these toddlers on the back.
> 
> Just last night my wife and I were at a brewery having dinner. A dad and his two year old were eating next to us. The dad finishes his beer and they leave. We see them speed off across and into the flow of traffic on a busy Pacific Coast Hwy on his eCruiser with his toddler in the baby seat. My wife said OMG! if you ever did anything stupid like that with our kids, I would be so pissed!
> BTW, there was probably 20 eBikes parked outside that brewery I wanted one right then! Seriously.


my dad lives in the ladera ranch part of San Clemente. There are kids everywhere riding around in groups on commuter style ebikes. I personally did not witness any law breaking, but many of the bikes parents are buying for their kids lean closer to motorcycle than bicycle when it comes to power and speed, so it is not surprising that inexperienced people of all ages are getting hurt.

not sure I would call it an epidemic though….If it was that bad there would be numbers to back it up and stories on the news.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

We can't have 7+ Billion folks driving around 2-ton vehicles everywhere they go on a whim. EV or not, it's just not going to work out. Bikes help and ebikes make many trips that aren't practical on a bike much more practical so they'll get used a lot more. 

Like it or not, ebikes are part of the solution.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

davec113 said:


> We can't have 7+ Billion folks driving around 2-ton vehicles everywhere they go on a whim. EV or not, it's just not going to work out. Bikes help and ebikes make many trips that aren't practical on a bike much more practical so they'll get used a lot more.
> 
> Like it or not, ebikes are part of the solution.


Oh I fully agree.

but there might need to be a license, registration and insurance tied to commuter eBikes to combat the lax views some show towards their use and operation.

that is just a fine line to walk at the moment, too much regulation stifles adoption, not enough breeds injuries.


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## blkdout (Oct 3, 2021)

When I'm old and worn out, I'd love to have an eBike. Hell, I'd like one now for some climbs lol. But you won't catch me anywhere near traffic on one. Or any bike for that matter... I see the way people drive nowadays. Nope.


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## Grinchy8 (Jul 6, 2021)

I liked my eBike. But at 60 lb+ it was absolutely a crash risk, more for me than for others I might hit. Was on a eBike forum and lots of ER visits, both from car on eBike and from eBike alone.
And from minor stuff that wouldn’t be an issue in a lighter /regular bike. Stuff like bike falls on ankle at a curb. Ankle breaks.
The gnarly stuff was all car on eBike, and part because people aren’t smart when they ride bikes commuting (lack of experience, taking the same route they would drive, etc) , and because 30 mph is an awkward speed on a lot of roads, to fast to pass easily and too slow for cars to stay behind.
I didn’t need it for fitness or for work. It was handy to tow a kid on the bike path, but now that they are past that age, it’s purpose didn’t outweigh the drawbacks for me.
I love the idea of renting one in a city for tourist stuff. That kind of use case is compelling.


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## john_bikeguy (Nov 23, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> Oh I fully agree.
> 
> but there might need to be a license, registration and insurance tied to commuter eBikes to combat the lax views some show towards their use and operation.
> 
> that is just a fine line to walk at the moment, too much regulation stifles adoption, not enough breeds injuries.


I live in Ladera Ranch. E-bikes are very popular in the community especially with kids in the 10-15 year age bracket. E-bikes just amplify a bit the safety issues typical with regular bikes. Seeing first hand the way bikes are used, I would certainly think some voluntary training on safety should be offered to those that buy any bike. Lots of common sense problems like riding on the sidewalk at 20mph while there are pedestrians walking and the bikes not slowing down or not even wearing helmets.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Kids and old men on e-bikes are a real problem here, it is getting worse. 4:00 on the MUP is close to mayhem when the schools get out. I am seriously considering proposing that there be two Multi-use pathways, one for pedestrians etc. going under 15 MPH, and a commuter one for people traveling up to 28 or so. But there is large, vocal opposition to any sort of publicly funded pathways. It’s BRODOZER OR NOTHING to them.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rideit said:


> Kids and old men on e-bikes are a real problem here, it is getting worse. 4:00 on the MUP is close to mayhem when the schools get out. I am seriously considering proposing that there be two Multi-use pathways, one for pedestrians etc. going under 15 MPH, and a commuter one for people traveling up to 28 or so. But there is large, vocal opposition to any sort of publicly funded pathways. It’s BRODOZER OR NOTHING to them.




I predicted ebikes would turn some mup's into motorways and I'm starting to see that happen. I'm not sure if there's a practical way to restrict pedestrian paths to class 1's but if not it should just be motorized/non-motorized imo


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Combining ped and bike traffic is just stupid. It's always been a problem in Boulder, ebikes will make it worse. In other places in Boulder county paths are more rarely used, 99.999% of folks just use cars.I can cover 10 miles on my ebike and hardly see anyone out doing anything.


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## austink26 (Jun 24, 2019)

mlx john said:


> Hyperbole much?
> 
> Clearly you're trolling/not serious or you're delusional.


As someone who also lives in a Southern California beach town, that isn’t hyperbole. I have seen a bunch of teens riding with a passenger just ripping through traffic while looking at their phones. It is all these bikes 



https://super73.com




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## Blue Dot Trail (May 30, 2018)

Was out hiking with the family to a lake way out in the woods to go swimming few weeks back. It’s also one of the main MTB spots in my area. TONS of trails. We came upon a 60 Something year old, fat, out of shape dude riding an “eBike”. He was lost as hell, no helmet, out of water, and generally beat up from dragging his heavy a$$ eBike over boulder strewn trails for hours. He admitted he bit off WAY more than he could chew. Sadly I had to inform him that to get back to his car was over 6 miles via the same trails (very rough trails). He had no business being out there. And it would never have happened if he had to get out there on his own power. The eBike nearly killed him. Hopefully he learned his lesson. SMH.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

schnee said:


> Give it a few years, it'll mellow out.


Right...because we all know that car drivers are getting better and better with each passing year.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Things as far as cycling infrastructure and ped paths are f'ed in many places because of sprawl combined with complete disregard for public transportation, cycling or walking. Just endless strip malls and suburbs that require you use a car. The last couple decades of build-out has been a disaster all across the USA. Everything's paved or covered with concrete. We're so f'ed.

Anyways, the solution to these issues as far as ebikes combined with cars and peds is infrastructure to support it, and there is none in many places so you get more chaos, more accidents, more people breaking rules.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I back to my point about the problem with our local kids, here's a perfect example right in front of me this morning, This kid was 12 maybe 13 yrs old. He seemed to peg out at about 48 mph. He cut left across all lanes as we came to the next cross street. Didn't signal or nothing. Bike lanes are for lamos ... I guess?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

^That has nothing to do with cycling. That's an underage kid on a motorcycle.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

davec113 said:


> ^That has nothing to do with cycling. That's an underage kid on a motorcycle.


That's what are being sold at some of the eBike shops and is representative of an eBike to kids. None of them pedal anyway. During my ride this morning at our local bike park, I rode with a couple of cool older guys (late 60's). One who I've surfed with for years. They were both on nice new Pedal Assist bikes. I kept up with them for the most part on the climbs, but left them in the dust on the steep downhills. It all averaged out. Fun either way. Great morning single tracking.

I shouldn't say none of them, because there are a bunch of kids who do pedal and send it at the bike park. Great to see, but I just wish they wouldn't turn every nice jump into a crazy gap jump.


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## blkdout (Oct 3, 2021)

Was that picture of the motorcycle taken by the driver whilst moving through a green light? lol


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

noapathy said:


> The ortho department treats brain injury patients now? Interesting - need a new headline for that, too. It should be backed up by at least one fake published study to seem valid though.


A nurse that works with my wife at the hospital floats to SICU and in the past year has had a lot of Neuro patients with TBI's due to crashes on eBikes. Some of them go to PCSU as well. 

Just Google eBike crashes and there are headlines. My info just comes directly from our friends that work at the local hospital and my recent visits there myself.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

blkdout said:


> Was that picture of the motorcycle taken by the driver whilst moving through a green light? lol


Yes. That was me. He saw me taking a picture so he stood up on his seat as if to say... F U.. old man. Rich kids.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

This is what is threatening our local trails. E-motorcycles not Pedal Assists. Here are a couple of dudes headed to the bike park this morning. I took this as I was leaving from my morning ride. Motorcycle helmets and boots. I've seen them out on the trails just tearing them up. As a trail maintainer, it pisses me off. They have almost the torque and speed of a standard motocross bike. They leave deep ruts spinning their tire on the ups and out of berms.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I fixed the Thread Title for clarity.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

One issue is that most people have no realistic concept of speed other than driving in a car. To them, anything below 35mph is slow. So an ebike traveling below 35 is slow and safe. They don't consider what happens if you go down at any type of speed on one. And a lot of people have no desire to be in shape, just not something they are interested in. They don't envision themselves participating in any type of actual cycling (or any other sport that requires fitness), they think that's for young folks and crazy older dudes/dudettes (hey, that's most of us!). 

And why are parents buying their kids ebikes for transportation? Why do kids need a motor unless they are traveling really long distances or climbing a lot. This just makes me sad. If this really is the trend, the bicycle is dead in the future.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I know for sports related ER stuff like TBI, bicycles is always number one, so this isn’t surprising.


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## shwndh (Nov 20, 2004)

I have a friend who just got an ebike who had not been riding bikes for 20 years. Lost control, crashed, and broke his pelvis. These accidents are not uncommon and I warn my friends all the time about the dangers of adding power to a bike with a lack of fitness, strength, and control.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Still waiting for the class action lawsuit againt an ebike manufacturer for willfully NOT informing buyers of the massive risks these things pose.

Inexperienced riders going excessively fast on nonexistent infrastructure is a recipe for all around disaster.


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## shwndh (Nov 20, 2004)

davec113 said:


> We can't have 7+ Billion folks driving around 2-ton vehicles everywhere they go on a whim. EV or not, it's just not going to work out. Bikes help and ebikes make many trips that aren't practical on a bike much more practical so they'll get used a lot more.
> 
> Like it or not, ebikes are part of the solution.


Ebikes are not the problem. It’s the ignorance and lack of education that goes along with it. Marketing only talks about the rose colored benefits and that’s all people see. Crashing on an ebike is a bit more dangerous than crashing with a regular bike because of the power. People need to be warned and educated about the dangers of these things, not just armed with money to buy them. I don’t know what the solution Is though I just see people getting hurt that have no business on them in the first place.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Still waiting for the class action lawsuit againt an ebike manufacturer for willfully NOT informing buyers of the massive risks these things pose.
> 
> Inexperienced riders going excessively fast on nonexistent infrastructure is a recipe for all around disaster.


Oh, I'm sure it comes with a manual that says to wear a helmet and ride within your capabilities. I'm also sure that most people don't care.


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## Squirrel in the Spokes (Apr 9, 2021)

My bike manual said to not jump my bike. Ironic when jump was in its name.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

chazpat said:


> If this really is the trend, the bicycle is dead in the future.


Be ready to be called a retrogrouch because you have one of those old skool bikes that you HAVE to pedal to make it move. Old guys are so dumb!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Tall BMX'r said:


> Bike lanes are for lamos ... I guess?
> 
> View attachment 1951727


No cyclist wants those fukking things in the bike lane. They don't belong there. 

Also, if someone was tearing up my trails with one it would get pitched over a cliff, kid or otherwise. Complaining here will not solve anything. Be a voice in person. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## mtbfree (Aug 20, 2015)

Tall BMX'r said:


> I just visited a good friend of mine at the hospital. He was riding his eBike fast through some sand on a local beach trail, lost control and crashed. Broke his femur near the hip. He was riding with a group, none of them had helmets (most road eBikers don't). His bike just has standard mtb tires, while the rest of the group had fat tires. I know everyone in the group and none of them rode mountain or actively rode bikes prior to getting their eBikes. That seems to be a standard rule of thumb with eBikes. Too lazy to want to ride a non-powered, but willing to go 30 to 40 mph on a powered bike. Oh, and no riding skills, going fast on a 50 lbs + bike. The back tires are always almost bald from skidding.
> While I was at the hospital, I ran into a Physical Therapist that I know. She said they have so many eBike patients it's like an epidemic. Last weekend a woman died and her two little kids were seriously injured when they went over the side of a river embankment going very fast on an eBike. She went face first into boulders (no helmet - not sure it would have help). Very sad... Again people not having real bike skills and understanding weight and momentum and the lack of control those bring. eBiker's, take it easy.. slow down.. and enjoy the ride.


Its simple statistics why this is the case - you always have i.e. 1% of riders being entitled to Darwin awards.
When you have 100 riders, 1 will end in a hospital. 
When you have 1000, 10 of them will end in hospital. Add to this simple formula e-mopeds which drastically lower entry level to the sport and you have even higher percentage of Darwin champions. Along with increased popularity thats quite predictable outcome of Darwin champions in the hospital  

P.S.: percent is purely fictional and i wish all injured all the best...


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

64% of statistics are made up, but 87% are still correct, so let's assume your numbers are right 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Shark said:


> 64% of statistics are made up, but 87% are still correct, so let's assume your numbers are right
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


" doctor says he has a 50/50 chance of living, though there's only a 10% chance of that."


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Tall BMX'r said:


> I back to my point about the problem with our local kids, here's a perfect example right in front of me this morning, This kid was 12 maybe 13 yrs old. He seemed to peg out at about 48 mph. He cut left across all lanes as we came to the next cross street. Didn't signal or nothing. Bike lanes are for lamos ... I guess?
> 
> View attachment 1951727


Holy cow. That is on PICO, I think the speed limit in that section is like 45 or 50 and cars go much faster along that stretch. 

As I mentioned before, and I mentioned it a number of years ago on this site during the old eBike wars of MTBR... Those street use eBikes are probably gonna need registration to run on the streets and a license to use them at some point.

Because legislation is so slow it takes a lot of loud voices to get laws changed. Maybe at some point those voices will be Emergency Departments, or maybe Parents..... But I see that happening at some point.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Back in the early 70's I rode my motorcycle in those south Orange County hills. Just cows and horses out there. As long as we had a spark arrester on our motorcycles, we could ride most places. I would come flying off the dirt onto a road, pull in my clutch, kill my engine, and coast side-saddle across the streets because I wasn't old enough to have a license. Honda had just came out with the Elsinore that just flew and was super light. Someone broke their back flying off a jump in the hills on one. The land owner got sued, and all of Orange County became closed to motorcycles. I got two trespassing tickets on my motorcycle after that and had to go to juvenal hall on the second one to see a judge. That was the beginning of BMX for a lot of us.
I don't want to be hypocrite. I rode my bike and skateboard through traffic when I was a kid and almost got hit a few times. I get it. But there were a lot less cars and people in those days.

I broke my leg jumping on my BMX bike, but I could still ride my skateboard


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Tall BMX'r said:


> Back in the early 70's I rode my motorcycle in those south Orange County hills. Just cows and horses out there. As long as we had a spark arrester on our motorcycles, we could ride most places. I would come flying off the dirt onto a road, pull in my clutch, kill my engine, and coast side-saddle across the streets because I wasn't old enough to have a license. Honda had just came out with the Elsinore that just flew and was super light. Someone broke their back flying off a jump in the hills on one. The land owner got sued, and all of Orange County became closed to motorcycles. I got two trespassing tickets on my motorcycle after that and had to go to juvenal hall on the second one to see a judge. That was the beginning of BMX for a lot of us.
> I don't want to be hypocrite. I rode my bike and skateboard through traffic when I was a kid and almost got hit a few times. I get it. But there were a lot less cars and people in those days.
> 
> I broke my leg jumping on my BMX bike, but I could still ride my skateboard
> ...



yep, I think most teens participate in activities that can have hazardous consequences. In the early 1990's my family moved from Orange County to Kern County and I got a dirt bike at 14 or 15 years old. I ripped all over the place on that thing since I could take dirt roads to most of town and only crossed the main roads (2-lane) on occasion. I wore a full face helmet, moto boots and other protective gear.

I did dangerous things of my own volition, but the consequences were landing on the dirt and there was no traffic on the dirt roads to run me over.

Parents buying pre-teens eBikes that can hit 30mph on the street, and those kids riding with traffic with shorts n t-shirts and maybe a bike helmet is not exactly an apples to apples comparison.


It is the interaction with traffic that really changes things. You need a license and a registered vehicle for anything else that can go the same speeds as Automobiles. eBikes on the street probably need the same thing.

Human Powered Bicycles do not really interact with traffic in the same way.

At the very lest some sort of required education and a permit should be required to operate them on the roads.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I thought that was the idea behind classes of ebikes, anything above a class 3 (28mph motor cut off) was not legal on the street. Of course, that is a problem with ebikes, no way to really enforce the classes. I can see them bringing on more regulations such as requiring tags if it really becomes a problem. I just hope they don't drag bicycles in with them. Maybe they should not allow any ebike to be sold beyond class 3; anything beyond that cannot have pedals and is not an ebike but rather an escooter, subject to different regulations.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

eshew said:


> Tried an e scooter with a friend. He's clumsy and didn't crash. I tried to take it off road, worked great until I hit some soft sand ightly off trail. Immediately went over the bars at 15mph. Bruised and bloody I learned my lesson. I'm a pretty experienced crasher, still severely bruised my calf on the "head tube". Not much give on these heavy machines... Oh well, I knew it was going to be a wild ride, the geometry on these things are sketchy at 5mph let alone 15.


LEAN BACK!


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

It is really crazy, the geometry on some of these eBikes. Tiny 14" wheels with a 30" seat post and headtube extension. Foldable on top of that. Still go over 15 mph!
I'd look hilarious riding one at 6'7 tall  Can't be to stable at any speed. I wonder how it would do on a single track??? It has a rear shock


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

I just looked on a map and there are 17 stores that sell ebikes within 2 miles of my house. Of those, only 3 are regular bike stores. One is Walmart, and the rest are all pop-up eBike only stores. Some rent eBikes too. That seems like a risky business?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

One of the problems is they look like a bike and drivers anticipate bicycle speeds. It happened to me. I was pulling on to the main drag in my small mountain town making a right. To my left was a rider 100 yards out at at the edge of the road. I had no idea he had an engine and as I pulled out, next thing he was right in front of me and almost ended up under my Jeep.

I haven't seen any ebike patients in the orthopedic OR. The number one trauma patient is still street and dirt motorcycles followed by the elderly who fall and break a hip. This is the time of the year too, during the holidays when people bring out their elderly. Twice, I've been called out to work as I was just sitting down to eat Thanksgiving dinner. Fat people are still the number one joint replacement recipient, followed by work related overuse, then ex football players who need new knees.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Not so difference from the gasoline powered bikes.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

milehi said:


> One of the problems is they look like a bike and drivers anticipate bicycle speeds. It happened to me. I was pulling on to the main drag in my small mountain town making a right. To my left was a rider 100 yards out at at the edge of the road. I had no idea he had an engine and as I pulled out, next thing he was right in front of me and almost ended up under my Jeep.
> 
> I haven't seen any ebike patients in the orthopedic OR. The number one trauma patient is still street and dirt motorcycles followed by the elderly who fall and break a hip. This is the time of the year too, during the holidays when people bring out their elderly. Twice, I've been called out to work as I was just sitting down to eat Thanksgiving dinner. Fat people are still the number one joint replacement recipient, followed by work related overuse, then ex football players who need new knees.


Agreed, they look like bicycles, are in the bike lane, but go the speed of cars and motorcycles.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Lets hope that Femur had good private health coverage if it was in the USA and lets hope there was no metal involved in fixing it.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

matt4x4 said:


> Lets hope that Femur had good private health coverage if it was in the USA and lets hope there was no metal involved in fixing it.


Fortunately he has money and good insurance. And yes metal for sure. The brake was just below the hip at the top of the shaft. He's in his mid 60's.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

Most bike injuries if you take the time to look at the statistics are the result of a motorist hitting the bicyclist. The majority of the time the reason was driver inattention. In New York City where statistics are kept for injuries with motor vehicles, bicyclists, and pedestrians in 2018 there was a total of 64 bike only injuries but 4,304 involving a bike and a motorist. 

In terms of the reasons for the motor vehicle collsions in NYC for Sept 2021, some 2649 were the result of driver inattention or distraction. Second place at 746 incidents was the result of failure to yield the right of way. 

The highest risk is for any cyclist being forced to share the road with motor vehicles driven by people who think that they can drive one handed while using their cell phone or eating a hamburger or putting on makeup. With cell phones being around for 30 years it is still seldom that I see drivers going hands free and driving responsibly. 

Unfortunately the highway related businesses have succeeded in getting cities to devote more than 50% of the space to motorists including the use of public streets to park there cars, often right beside bike lanes making them inherently dangerous.


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