# No more helmet for me.



## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

Today I looked at my crappy old helmet. This things been dropped in trunks of cars, knocked around airports, train stations, docks, and into gravel and onto pave in parking lots, around half the world. I bought it right before the last race I did, in 97... Has it really been nearly a decade? Wow. An expensive hunk of foam, but used, and used up.

Time to get a new one. or...

Time to get a new one?

Looking at the wear on this helmet, it occurs to me I haven't crashed in 10 years. My rides since then have turned into casual rides that could be (and have been on occasion) done on a 1940s Schwinn cruiser with one speed and a coaster brake. Early on, in my first decade of mtbing, I'd occasionally eat sh!t doing something risky or stupid, or beyond my abilities, and I'd always praise the helmet gods at Giro for saving my life. Not that there was any way of knowing one way or the other if I would have died or not, but it seemed like the end of the world at the time. I lambasted with fervor anyone I saw not wearing one, and assumed they were stupid, instead of capable of making their own life decisions.

A couple weeks ago, I rode from Zurich, Switzerland all the way to Rome, Italy, crossed the alps, crossed the alpininnes, and passed or was passed by probably 10,000 cyclists. Everyone in Italy rides, it seems. In all those people, in 10 days of being on the road, I counted under 40 people wearing helmets. I'd go into shops and talking to the owners, and the conversations went like this:

"I see you don't have helmets for sale."
"We used to carry them, but no one bought them."
"So I've seen, out on the road. Aren't there a lot of fatalities?"
"What? No, of course not. They're unneccesary. If you go down, tuck and roll out of it, like this..." 
"Yes, I know, but..."
"Ah, you're American! Yes, then helmets are for you."
:skep:
"well wtf..."

Still not sure what that meant, but anyway, I'm done with this helmet, and I'm not replacing it. I'll probably be killed by a falling piano next week.


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## Hammerli (Jul 23, 2006)

Ask Ben Roethlisberger how that line of thinking worked out.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

I can't, he's dead.


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## sam60 (Apr 14, 2006)

if you choose not to wear a helmet then you are an idiot


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

sam60 said:


> if you choose not to wear a helmet then you are an idiot


Wow, I'd better run outside and tell every person I see riding right now they're all idiots. I'm sure they'll all think I'm not an idiot for doing so...


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## sam60 (Apr 14, 2006)

**** you


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## fred3 (Jan 12, 2004)

So why on earth did you post this here? Personally I applaud your decision to not wear a helmet. But I poo, poo on your reasoning. Not having crashed in a long time and a shop owner saying your American so you want a helmet sound strangely arrogant, but hey who cares. Helmets are for accidents, not for crashing into something with your head intentionally. When you can predict you'll never have an accident let me know.


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## Hammerli (Jul 23, 2006)

Don Juan said:


> I can't, he's dead.


Since when?


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

fred3 said:


> So why on earth did you post this here? Personally I applaud your decision to not wear a helmet. But I poo, poo on your reasoning. Not having crashed in a long time and a shop owner saying your American so you want a helmet sound strangely arrogant, but hey who cares. Helmets are for accidents, not for crashing into something with your head intentionally. When you can predict you'll never have an accident let me know.


Why does anybody post anything here? Because it's a discussion forum about mountain biking things. From 20 years of wearing a helmet religiously, to canning it is kind of a weird thing. And I have two more hours to kill before this meeting, so I'll put the words on the screen and see what there is to see.

The shop owners responses were all like that, but have nothing to do with why I don't like wearing helmets. The reasons for not liking helmets aren't even mentioned. Only that there's another half of the world out there, where helmet-wearers are an extreme minority, which seems pretty strange.

The whole helmet rage thing seems quite a bit overblown, when a different viewpoint is presented and it illicits responses like Sams here.

"Since when?"

Tuesday Night. No, I don't know. I must be thinking of the other example of the horror of what could happen to you if you walk out of your house and step out into the world.


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## EscourtU (Aug 15, 2006)

Perhaps you should buy one and just carry it with you. If you see something you wanna do risky then put it on. Then you will always have the option just incase. If I was out on the trail and someone called me an idiot for not wearing a helmet they had better have a mouthpiece in. There is a thing called respect. Give it and get it.


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## Hammerli (Jul 23, 2006)

Don Juan said:


> The whole helmet rage thing seems quite a bit overblown, when a different viewpoint is presented and it illicits responses like Sams here.


Not nearly as overblown as the whole anti-helmet rage, who feel they have to make sure everyone knows they aren't wearing a helmet. I figure more power to 'em, let's get back to when natural selection was allowed to work.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

Hammerli said:


> Not nearly as overblown as the whole anti-helmet rage, who feel they have to make sure everyone knows they aren't wearing a helmet. I figure more power to 'em, let's get back to when natural selection was allowed to work.


Agreed, I often see people who aren't wearing helmets yelling at people to take theirs off.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Don Juan said:


> "Ah, you're American! Yes, then helmets are for you."
> :skep:
> "well wtf..."


Hehehe good one  But really... helmets are not just for Americans, but for everyone with at least a bit of brains and IQ above room temperature.
Yes you didn't fall for 10 years with bike, but this doesn't guarantie you won't fall tomorrow. Same thing goes for seat belts and airbags in car, helmets and protective gear on motorbike, house and car insurances etc etc. If everything goes fine, you will never need any of those things, but in case if it doesn't... 
But on the end... it's your head so do whatever you want with it. I don't really care about this


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Right to choose*

The OP, like the rest of us, has the right to choose. This includes choosing to throw caution to the wind. FWIW, I happen to feel that it's pretty stupid to ride without a helmet. The fact that the OP hasn't had a crash in 10 years is irrelevant to the situation. If you look at ER statistics in states like PA where motorcycle helmet laws have been repealed, severe head injuries and deaths have increased since it has become legal to ride without a helmet. My guess is that many of the people who now have brain damage or have died as a result of being in a motorcycle accident are also people who haven't had an accident in 10 years. It takes just one mishap.

My best wishes to the OP. I hope your rides are safe and accident free.

Bob


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## Vikingrider (Oct 6, 2005)

sam60 said:


> **** you


Well,, here is one that fell on his head not wearing a helmet, posts like that really adds to this forum


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

Don Juan said:


> I'd go into shops and talking to the owners, and the conversations went like this:
> 
> "I see you don't have helmets for sale."
> "We used to carry them, but no one bought them."
> ...


Uh huh.


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## robotkiller (Jan 20, 2004)

I commuted for years without a helmet -- it was too inconvenient to carry around that thing. I only started wearing one when I started mountainbiking.

I've only needed it once, but thank God I was wearing it. At any rate, it seems like I get bonked in the head by low lying branches every time I ride. Enough of a reason for me to wear one. 

When I'm just cruising around, I still don't wear one. 

Whatever...do what you want. I'm pretty sure no one here is losing sleep over it.


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## btadlock (Oct 3, 2005)

*to each his own.....*

wearing a helmet, like so many other things in life, comes down to personal choice.
I choose to wear one, and the OP now chooses not to.
If I rode with him, I might ask him about his helmet, but I would respect his choice.

don't quite understand the posts that come across as the poster's bold declaration of "I am not wearing a helmet!". Well, ok then, but what is the big deal about making such a statement? anarchy? fight the power? whatever.


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## coldsteele (Jul 9, 2004)

For the longest time I rode with out a helmet. Anyone who grew up in the 70's or 80's probably never wore a helmet when they were jumping their BMX bike over trash cans or some flimsy 2x4 and plywood ramp. But that was a time when I did not know better. When I think back at some of the things I did, with out a helmet, it makes me cringe. Now I wear a helmet during every ride. The way I ride I never know if I will take that obstacle this time or not. Most of the time my helmet serves as a limb basher but the times I did and the times I will need a helmet make me put it on every ride.

But those laws to save someone from themselves, to me, seem futile. people are going to do what they want, how they want to. So If you choose to ride without a helmet that is your decision and not mine. Wearing a helmet makes me feel comfortable. The other reason I wear it is because you can't always trust that everyone else can ride or pay attention as good as yourself. 

Just my thought.......If you don't wear a helmet you must not have anything worth protecting.

P.S. Ben Roethlisberger is not dead but, he almost lost everything in a second. Nothing 10 hours of reconstructive surgery can't fix.


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## M.J. (Feb 23, 2004)

I rarely wear a helmet on the road. I do wear a helmet on the road when it's wet, icy or dark. I have lots of reflective tape on my helmet. I reckon 60% of my 5000 road miles per year are without a helmet. Helmets normally help with low speed single bicycle accidents. Those kinds of accidents are pretty rare where I live. Mst accidents on the road involve getting knocked into oncoming traffic or something equally horrific. A helmet isn't gonna help anybody in an accident like that...

There are entire cycling nations (Denmark, Netherlands) where helmets are hardly ever worn. There's not a big spike in resulting injuries from helmetless riders.

However, I always always always wear a helmet when mtb as low speed (less than 12mph) single bicycle accidents describe my mtbing perfectly.

I think you'd be crazy to ride offroad without a helmet. But on the road do what's most comfortable and forget about the helmet nazis


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## MTB Skippy (Jun 30, 2004)

use a helmet! Thats just stupid, come on now....


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## RobW (Jan 18, 2004)

I don't wear my helmet in my car, so statistically speaking, I'm taking a pretty big risk. I also don't wear one while working on a ladder around the house. We all engage in lots of activities that are, in terms of head injuries, statistically more hazardous than biking, and think nothing of going lidless while doing so. It's each adult's choice to make. On a bike, however, I wear one even while putzing around in the 'hood, only because my kids are watching me. Since I feel better when they wear theirs, it's a mandatory rule at my house, and I have to set the example.


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## coldsteele (Jul 9, 2004)

M.J. said:


> There are entire cycling nations (Denmark, Netherlands) where helmets are hardly ever worn. There's not a big spike in resulting injuries from helmetless riders.


But here we have an overwhelming population that does not ride a bike so they pay less attention to the people that do. In those other countries cycling is more accepted and the drivers are more conscious of the people cycling.

My step-daughter was in an accident, not on a bike, and she was not wearing a seat belt. She suffered brain damage due to hitting the dashboard. She is 25 with the mental capacity of a 5 year old. My point is that if she chose to wear the seal belt then this might not have even happened. Same goes for a helmet. You never need it until you do. Hopefully at that time you have it on.


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## LuckyDog (Jan 15, 2005)




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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

You goofball. It may have gotten off to a rough start, but there are actually some good posts being made here.

& yeah, that was the typical conversation, paraphrased. Don't read too much into it though, that's a translation of an amalgamation of 20 conversations I had with different people, and my grasp of Italian is extremely poor. There was no arrogance. Actually, every single Italian I met was amazingly friendly, helpful, and considerate. I coulndn't figure out who was doing all the trashing of the public places in Italy, cause I couldn't imagine it was them. After talking with some people here, it seems that it was probably more of an understanding over here that Americans on the whole wear helmets, whereas europeans on the whole don't. Italy I'm told is one of those more extreme countries where it's considered sissyboy to ride with a helmet, and of course if you are an Italian, being regarded as a sissyboy is a very very serious thing.


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## pinerider (Apr 6, 2004)

I think its darn interesting that Europeans don't wear helmets on the road and think that its mainly an "American" thing. I would never bike without a helmet, road or mtn. After reading this post, I immediately started thinking about skiing though. Been skiing since I was I was about 5 (1970). Never have worn a helmet. Now people are dying right and left after hitting trees and it seems 80% of the mountain is wearing helmets. Yes, it could happen to me, I ski fast throught tight trees and there are alot more people on the slopes now too. So getting crashed into is a possibility. I have been thinking about the helmet thing, but I still don't think its completely necessary for me. Some people I suppose would think I'm stupid for that. Yep - to each his own in the end.


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## M.J. (Feb 23, 2004)

in a car v bike accident a helmet will not offer any meaningful protection

seat belts and helmets are apples and oranges

still, as I said, for me helmets are mandatory for offroad riding - on road it's a matter of choice - sometimes I do sometimes I don't


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## titleist990dci (Jun 16, 2006)

I couldn't care less if you were a helmet...but I'm going to..I head butted a tree once, not on purpose...have landed ON my head a couple times...so I need a helmet to protect the few brain cells I have left...:0
It's kind of like I dont' wear a seat belt because I've never had a crash...all it takes is one time and it's OVER!!!


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## zzsean (Nov 3, 2004)

10,000 road riders not wearing a helmet = don't where a helmet while mountain biking? 

What sort of trails do you ride? The trails I ride throw surprises at me constantly, the idea of no helmet doesn't work for me, but each to their own.


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## M.J. (Feb 23, 2004)

this whole debate's confused - it sounds like the OP did a road ride not a mtb ride and is making some assumptions mostly cause he's no longer doing any serious offroad 

the risks on road v off road for going without a helmet are not comparable


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Helmets are a good place for helmet cams.
Helmets keep the sun off.
Helmets can keep your ears warm.
Some can keep the rain off.


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## Brah (Jul 29, 2004)

*No rise in Ski injuries / fatalities*



pinerider said:


> Been skiing since I was I was about 5 (1970). Never have worn a helmet. Now people are dying right and left after hitting trees and it seems 80% of the mountain is wearing helmets. Yes, it could happen to me, I ski fast throught tight trees and there are alot more people on the slopes now too.


There's been no increase in ski injuries over the last several decades. Only the perception of injuries has gone up --- that's the helmet company's advertising at work! Yes, advertising and marketing is effective.

National Geographic did a story a while back on using helmets at the slopes... for adults, they found no advantage to wearing a helmet (kids are another story). One of their main points was that yes, helmet do protect your head, but head injuries are so incredibly rare that it's not much help. Most fatalities are due to internal injuries, and helmets can't help there.


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## CactusJoe (Aug 10, 2005)

No helmet? Must not have much to protect in the first place.


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## washedup (Jan 2, 2006)

i dont understand the need to call someone an idiot or stupid b/c they dont agree w/ your opinion. when i was working as a messenger in the early '90s some guy walked up and started going off on me b/c i didnt have one on and about got his knot rocked. i just dont understand why it makes people so mad.alot of us grew up in an era where nobody wore helmets, as did i, or the state of the art helmets were soft and stuck to the pavement in a crash, in some cases causing broken necks. it took me along time getting used to wear one mountain biking and will still wear nothing more than a hair net on the road. i personally think consuming alcohol is stupid, but that is just my opinion. i can accept that some people will not agree and continue to consume poison.


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## morenowalh01 (Sep 22, 2005)

Natural selection at its best. You not wearing one means human-kind on average will improve just a bit when you kill yourself.


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## Dangeruss (Jan 24, 2006)

It seems you're making a decision based on historical statistics. Seems sound enough, until the unexpected happens. Perhaps you should further your research by downing a handfull of narcotics before heading off to work. Just to try that whole drooling, incoherant, slurred speach, and lack of motor skills thing on for size.


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## washedup (Jan 2, 2006)

i dont think i will "kill myself" riding to the store. that will be your job to run me down in your car and live with it for the rest of your life.


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## EscourtU (Aug 15, 2006)

washedup said:


> i dont understand the need to call someone an idiot or stupid b/c they dont agree w/ your opinion. when i was working as a messenger in the early '90s some guy walked up and started going off on me b/c i didnt have one on and about got his knot rocked. i just dont understand why it makes people so mad.alot of us grew up in an era where nobody wore helmets, as did i, or the state of the art helmets were soft and stuck to the pavement in a crash, in some cases causing broken necks. it took me along time getting used to wear one mountain biking and will still wear nothing more than a hair net on the road. i personally think consuming alcohol is stupid, but that is just my opinion. i can accept that some people will not agree and continue to consume poison.


I agree with you If someone doesn't want to ride with a helmet it is their choice Personally I don't care. Alcohol does way more damage to the body than mtb'ing. As for calling people names, they do it because they can actually get away with it on here without getting a smackdown for insulting someone. Alot of people have have no problem sitting in jail for kicking some yuppies a$$ who seriously needs it. When I go to jail I get to see people who I haven't seen since the last time I was there, no biggy deal. I get along with most people except for the ones who think they are better than everyone else and call them names. Personally if I ran across someone who rubbed me the wrong way I would just take their front wheel out. I am not saying that everyone is like that just a select few and it is quite obvious who they are. Most of the time if you look at the spelling and punctuation they are the ones who are the so called "Morons".


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## Hammerli (Jul 23, 2006)

M.J. said:


> There are entire cycling nations (Denmark, Netherlands) where helmets are hardly ever worn. There's not a big spike in resulting injuries from helmetless riders.


They don't have the predominance of 5'2" 98 lb. women driving Hummer H2s, Suburbans, Honda Odysseys and other large vehicles with no concept of where the periphery of their vehicle is. Denmark has had a ban on cell phone use while driving since 1998, and are known to be bike friendly. Most cities have bike lanes and trails that interconnect with roadway bike lanes and wide shoulders, and the minimum driving age is 18 and they actually educate drivers at places other than the K-Mart driving school. You can't use an overseas control group to make statements about the average moronic US driver.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

After years of mountain biking without serious injury, I crashed this summer--on a trail I've ridden literally hundreds of times. It wasn't technical, I wasn't pushing limits, I was just getting a quick ride in on a Saturday morning. Somehow my front wheel washed out, and before I could react--much less "tuck and roll", I went down sideways and smashed my head on a rock. My helmet shattered, and I went into a kind of lucid dreaming daze. I ended up in the ER having cat scans and x-rays, and managed to walk out with nothing more than some gashes and a headache. My helmet was toast. My head was fine. 

S*** happens even when you don't tempt fate, and it's a wake-up call when it happens. Now I wear a helmet as much for myself as I do for my 5-year old son and my wife. I guess if you've got no one counting on you to come home, you can do back flips with no helmet off a 20-foot drop-in and no one will care.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Deep down I think helmets are mostly useless for me, because every time I crash the helmet comes out without a scratch. My only road crash was when a Verizon driver opened his door on me and slammed me into a minivan to my left. Mike bike was dinged up but the helmet came out fine. I once rode in snow & ice and went helmet first into a tree at about 1/2 mph. Funny, but had I not been wearing the helmet I would have chosen not to absorb the tree with the helmet. At 1/2 mph, you have these options. Wasn't so lucky with the Verizon door. Time was limited.

Deep down I think I would be just as healthy if I didn't eat apples. But I just had one this morning. They fill me up and offer a different nutritional aspect than other fruits I eat. 

I wear a helmet. I eat apples. Very...very rarely do I do both at the same time. If I did, I might have more need for the helmet.


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## chucko58 (Aug 4, 2006)

I choose to wear a helmet whenever I ride. 32 years ago I got "doored" passing a parked car, went OTB, and hit the pavement head-first. As a result, I spent my 16th birthday in bed recovering from a concussion. I didn't enjoy it.

I got into this discussion with a bunch of no-helmet zealots on rec.bicycles.riding a while ago. Several posters argued vehemently that they could control every possible risk while riding, so they didn't _need_ helmets. I'm not that optimistic, nor am I that good a rider. People make mistakes... and as Scribb said, sometimes stuff happens for no reason at all.

It is a trade-off. You can have the wind in your hair, or you can have protection against a crash. Which one you pick depends on how important that fresh air is compared to your chances of getting your head bashed.


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## washedup (Jan 2, 2006)

normZurawski said:


> I wear a helmet. I eat apples. Very...very rarely do I do both at the same time. If I did, I might have more need for the helmet.


funny you say that. a friend of mine borrowed a bike to go out and do the group road ride with me. i rode into the park to meet the group as they came up, but no sign of my friend. i went home and crawled back into bed. an hour passes and there is a knock at the door and there stands my friend tights ripped from his butt to his knee. he tells me that while riding in the group to meet me, he was riding no-handed eating an apple when the seat on the borrowed bike slid right off the rails and he hit the ground with his head and back still clipped in. not one roadie stopped to see if he was ok and he watched his apple roll into the creek.

moral of the story: always wear a helmet when eating apples.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Scribb said:


> After years of mountain biking without serious injury, I crashed this summer--on a trail I've ridden literally hundreds of times.


This is actually the crap that worries me the most. Every once in a long while, my front tire will try to spin out of control one way or the other. I'm sure it was a small rock or root I didn't see. But it happens on the most innocent trails. I've yet to crash from one of these but it makes me a little nervous. On the big nasty obstacles all my brain cells are on deck, so when I crash there it's expected, and nothing ever gets hurt, save for maybe a strained groin or a dinged ankle or something.



washedup said:


> moral of the story: always wear a helmet when eating apples.


I just knew I was on the right path with that thinking. Thanks for the verification, and the tip about doing these things near a creek.


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## Pooh Bear (May 25, 2006)

M.J. said:


> in a car v bike accident a helmet will not offer any meaningful protection


WRONG!
*I think they do protect your head.* It is quite easy to repair/heal an arm or leg, but a crashed skull can be difficult to deal with.

A friend of mine was run over by a car (in Europe and it was a small car and people do wear helmets over here). He works as a bike messenger and wore a helmet. This may have saved his live. The face was severely injured, but the skull was still okay. He nearly lost his left eye and now has a half titanium face (under the skin, though). His helmet was split into 3 pieces. Now this was on road.
I think he is quite happy and just bought a new helmet since he's allowed to restart training again.

To me helmets are quite handy to keep low branches off my head when trailriding.

And try this: :madman: without a helmet!


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## bigbore (May 11, 2006)

i love these people who make up little sayings against people who dont wear helmets " born with little brains, gonna die with even less" ive heard that comming from an old man at a friend of mine who just bought his bike and hadnt gotten a helmet because he spent all his money on the bike that he wanted to get... he yelled back at him to turn on his pacemaker and i laughed for at least 20minutes and had to get off my bike at one point.. 

point is, these little sayings are gay. Why do people who wear helmets all the time spend so much time thinking up these things to say to bikers that are riding past them on the road? WHY do they care so much? Wear a helmet , dont wear a helmet, meh. I ski during the winter i go twice as fast on skis then i ever have on a bike and i dont wear a helmet, in fact i see only 1 out of 1000 people (literally) wearing one. (although this year im getting one cause back country skiing will get pretty hairy) My second point being that i dont see lots of skiiers dying as a result of not having a helmet and they are doing something very similar.

Look if you fall hard, lets say off a small cliff and you land on your head the chances are great that your going to snap your neck anyway, helmet or not, if you do a jump and you land straight on your head, your neck is a weaker point in your body then your head. So if someone doesnt want to wear a helmet i say its better that you did, because there are some circumstances that could warrant needing one, but i dont call the guy an idiot just because he realised that wearing a helmet doesnt solve all, and if you keep to a safe level of riding first and foremost you have very little chance of anything happening anyway.


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## steevo (Nov 17, 2004)

I had a bad crash years ago that resulted in a concussion and amnesia. It took almost 12 hours to get my memory back. And I did have a helmet on. I can't imagine what would've happened if I didn't have one on. I spent that entire memorial weekend in bed. And that was the weekend that Christopher Reeve was thrown from his horse. We all know how that ended up. Needless to say, I'll never ride without a helmet. 

Also, I think it's important to keep in mind that a severe injury to the head is not only going to effect you directly, but also other's around you that care about you or rely on you. Remembering that should make the minor inconvenience of wearing a helmet worth it.


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## redbugcr (Nov 28, 2005)

*Italy is not USA*

I think the main reason that helmets are not as widely used in Italy (and most of Europe too) is probably that they have a culture that truly respects cyclists. Besides that, they probably have bike paths & the infrastructure that allows bikers and cars to stay clear from each other and drivers will yield to them at intersections.

In the US, cyclists are seen as freaks. Plain and simple. Why would anyone want to bike when they can drive??

If you want to continue living in the states I suggest you wear your lid.

Murphy's Law is always on the lookout for exactly these situations and just when you decide to stop wearing a helmet something is bound to happen. :madman:


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## Judd97 (Jun 6, 2005)

Why wouldn't you wear a helmet? 

Is it that uncomfortable? Is it that much of an inconvenience? So what? You spend 30-50 bucks on a helmet that, once its on your head, you forget its even there. 

The benefits of wearing a helmet severely outweigh the negative aspect. Why not wear one?


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

bigbore said:


> Why do people who wear helmets all the time spend so much time thinking up these things to say to bikers that are riding past them on the road?


Interesting question--which you could ask about a lot of things. A good friend of mine made a decision after college to live in a van and paint. Most people took him for a homeless person. Once a week I'd go down to the beach and hang out with him, just shooting the breeze. I could not *believe* the animosity some people had toward him, without knowing a thing about him. They'd just see him with his long hair and his beat up van and get angry. They'd say things like "get a job", "do something with your life", or worse. I watched one guy in the parking lot deliberately slam the door of his truck into the side of my friend's van. Another lady ushered her little girl past the van while we were just sitting on the bumper and said, "don't look, honey."

So here's the conclusion I came to: People don't want to question the decisions and choices they've made for themselves in life. Questioning feels like uncertainty, and uncertainty feels like fear. Seeing other people taking a very different course could call their own decisions into question, and the easiest way to shut that down is to write them off as worthless, or stupid, or worse--and saying nasty things just seals it up with a note of righteousness.

Either that, or their just arrogant a$$holes.

By the way. My "homeless" friend? He's now pulling down $250k a year with his own real estate business, and spending half his time as a photographer. Nothing like poetic justice.


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*Nice logic...*

The fact that you haven't crashed in a while is meaningless, but good luck with that.

You and Darwin can compare notes when you get to the Great Helmet Store In The Sky...

:thumbsup:


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

redbugcr said:


> I think the main reason that helmets are not as widely used in Italy (and most of Europe too) is probably that they have a culture that truly respects cyclists.


They also still smoke like chimneys in Europe and Asia, and we know how good that is for your health. Spin that any way you want. Maybe they worry less about their health. Maybe they're just not so anal. Maybe they're a step behind. Maybe they have a synaptic deficiency that allows humans to project their actions into the future. Maybe they're just stupid.


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

Scribb said:


> They also still smoke like chimneys in Europe and Asia, and we know how good that is for your health. Spin that any way you want. Maybe they worry less about their health. Maybe they're just not so anal. Maybe they're a step behind. Maybe they have a synaptic deficiency that allows humans to project their actions into the future. Maybe they're just stupid.


Maybe they just know its better to LOOK GOOD then to FEEL GOOD (or live through that crash....)


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*Exactly...*



 Scribb said:


> So here's the conclusion I came to: People don't want to question the decisions and choices they've made for themselves in life. Questioning feels like uncertainty, and uncertainty feels like fear. Seeing other people taking a very different course could call their own decisions into question, and the easiest way to shut that down is to write them off as worthless, or stupid, or worse--and saying nasty things just seals it up with a note of righteousness.


Passing judgement on others, be they strangers, friends, coworkers etc is the easiest and simplest way of validating our own lives, choices etc. It makes us feel good for a moment, and like you say, it staves off that essential fear: are we living a good life, however we choose to define that.

But like you point out, it prevents us from knowing ourselves and others.

And we all do it. Every day. Some more then others.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

> Passing judgement on others... is the easiest and simplest way of validating our own lives


Well put. "If you suck, that means I'm better. The more you suck, the better I am. So. Let me count the ways you suck."


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## eclark7 (Mar 25, 2004)

*whats the difference??*

I have fallen both with and without helmets, and come out about the same. I witnessed a friend break his neck, and he was wearing a helmet. Personally, I like a helmet just fine when it is about 80 or less, when it heats up to about 102, I really like the fresh breeze in my hair. If I see you in the woods, and you appear to be new to the sport and lidless, I may ask you about it, but if you are ripping through the trails like an expert, it is on you. For all the real serious helmet guys, like the guy who said F you, if you really want to be safe, just list your rides on ebay. Get rid of them all, even the tricycles, those things are dangerous.

Regarding helmets on snow, I religiously wear my helmet riding east coast, due to the shiny blue snow most places. When I am out west, forget it, I can't wait until after lunch for it to warm up and I can ditch my hat.

Do you guys who blast helmetless folk really really hate the guys taking bowl hits off to the side of the singletrack?

my 1.5 cents.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

M.J. said:


> in a car v bike accident a helmet will not offer any meaningful protection
> 
> seat belts and helmets are apples and oranges
> 
> still, as I said, for me helmets are mandatory for offroad riding - on road it's a matter of choice - sometimes I do sometimes I don't


Why do you feel seat belts and helmets are apples and oranges?

I think that both might help you in case of accident. Wearing a helmet does not make you invurnerable to cars, rocks, pavement and any risks in the trails or road. And there are several accidents when wearing one will have no effect in the outcome (either a small crash and no one is hurt, or a sad ending).

But they're both a security measure. I've seen a broken helmet, and it was no big deal, but if the guy wasn't wearing one, then he would be in serious health problems.

I think people should wear helmets, but I don't go preaching to every non helmet wearing rider I see, but I don't want to ride with someone don't wearing one. I just don't want to have to care for a comatose guy in the middle of nowhere..


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## RobW (Jan 18, 2004)

steevo said:


> Christopher Reeve was thrown from his horse. We all know how that ended up.


No flame here, but didn't Reeve have a helmet on at the time?


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*Too true...*



Scribb said:


> "If you suck, that means I'm better. The more you suck, the better I am. So. Let me count the ways you suck."


Sadly this is the primary force behind so many of the world's ills: Religious hatred, nationalism, racism etc etc. Humans seem to be really stuck on this shite.

Its all about how "The Other" sucks, therefore we're great!

But lets not fork this thread too vigorously toward F88! I'd don't really have a beef with people not wearing helmets... but if I have to pick your phocking brains off a rock you can be sure I'm gonna give you some serious **** about being such a dumbass. :madmax:


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## BrettVisionSLR (Aug 5, 2006)

I've never hit my head in 24 years of bike riding. . . but I like what I've got between my ears. I don't freak out riding without one, but I think it's silly to not wear one. The newer ones are plenty light, comfy, and breathe well. . .my only potential reservation is the freak branch catching it and strangling me. . .talk about paranoia.


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## mcseforsale (Feb 14, 2004)

*Um...*



Don Juan said:


> Why does anybody post anything here? Because it's a discussion forum...


Ok. You lost me.


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## steevo (Nov 17, 2004)

RobW said:


> No flame here, but didn't Reeve have a helmet on at the time?


Actually, I googled it and you're correct he was wearing a helmet. So my response to your point: Yeah, but. Still.


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

bigbore said:


> WHY do they care so much?


Why do you care what they care? I suspect the reasons are essentially the same and probably not very altruistic. Still, why bash someone for caring, even if for the wrong reasons?

Regarding Europe, tons of riders--both on and off road--here wear helmets. I bought my last helmet at a well-stocked shop in Italy. Pros wear helmets at contests. At the lift-served bike parks almost everyone has a full face and armor. That doesn't mean that everyone does, but as a whole I reckon those wild and crazy Europeans put a helmet on about as often as an American.


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

Brah said:


> There's been no increase in ski injuries over the last several decades. Only the perception of injuries has gone up --- that's the helmet company's advertising at work! Yes, advertising and marketing is effective.
> 
> National Geographic did a story a while back on using helmets at the slopes... for adults, they found no advantage to wearing a helmet (kids are another story). One of their main points was that yes, helmet do protect your head, but head injuries are so incredibly rare that it's not much help. Most fatalities are due to internal injuries, and helmets can't help there.


Interesting. I always wear a helmet when cycling, and don't own a ski helmet. Somebody asked me about that last year. I didn't have any statistics, but pointed out that the two high profile skiing deaths (Sonny Bono and that Kennedy guy) were the result of drug use and or really stupid behavior.


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## miSSionary (Jun 29, 2005)

Don Juan you are right, you don't need a helmet. I mean with such a great user name we can already tell you are a rocket scientist!! :thumbsup: Natural selection is a beautiful thing, get back on the short bus before you do get hurt...and try not to think up any more of these great questions (in fact just don't think, you may have already hit your head and unfortunately no one else saw you do it...we still aren't sure how bad it was but it is looking much worse than previously thought :yikes: ). :incazzato:


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

I got a lot more serious about wearing a helmet on any two-wheeled vehicle after slamming my head into the ground in a slow-speed MC crash when I was 15.

I bought a helmet for skiing when I became a father. Couldn't reasonably expect my kids to wear one if I wasn't wearing one, now could I?

If you would rather go without, that's your choice. Even so, I would like to be able to choose to avoid any hint of economic burden based upon injuries that may have been prevented had you been wearing a helmet.

The way I see it, we need all of the brainpower we can get. Why waste it willingly?


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## Bob the Wheelbuilder (Sep 21, 2003)

Daner said:


> Even so, I would like to be able to choose to avoid any hint of economic burden based upon injuries that may have been prevented had you been wearing a helmet.


This is my major beef with the "I'll do what I want, it's a free country" American mindset. Healthcare costs to treat our collective stupidity aren't bourne only by the stupid. Any concussion probably subtly damages your brain permanantly, by the way, so the stupid just keep getting "stoopider."

I wish I could get a tax break for wearing a helmet, not smoking or drinking, eating a decent diet, not being morbidly overweight, etc. But I'm just dreaming.


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## Brah (Jul 29, 2004)

*Bono and Kennedy*



HarryCallahan said:


> Interesting. I always wear a helmet when cycling, and don't own a ski helmet. Somebody asked me about that last year. I didn't have any statistics, but pointed out that the two high profile skiing deaths (Sonny Bono and that Kennedy guy) were the result of drug use and or really stupid behavior.


Those are often the examples that people site. Both died from hitting trees, but a helmet would not have helped either one. Both died from internal injuries. Lately my friends have been pressuring me to wear a ski helmet, with a lot of the same arguments used on this board. I doubt if I will.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

First of all, riding a motorcycle should not be compared to riding a mountain bike. Unless your bike weighs 400 lbs and does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. Yes they both have 2 wheels and you can fall off, but a mountain bike is not NEARLY as dangerous.

And about the helmet, I managed to go through a childhood of BMX, dirt jumping, urban riding (ever jumped a VW bug?) and assorted stuff with no protective gear. No brain damage occured that I'm aware of. Helmet use was not widespread during my childhood (no x-games yet!) and it was a non-issue.

I never even considered a helmet even when I started riding mountain bikes in tahoe on some pretty gnarly trails. Again, I just never thought about it. Actually reading this site kind of put the idea in my head (or on it!) and I bought one. I figured my head is shaved, I have to wear something to avoid sunburn, might as well get some protection in case of a freak fall.

You make your choice based on risk level and how much of an imposition the safety gear is. On my motorcycle risk level is high so I wear full gear even though I live in Vegas and its 100-120 all summer. On my mountain bike it is low (xc riding, very little downhill/high speed) so I wear some minimal gear. If the original poster feels his rides are sedate enough that wearing anything on his head is more trouble than its worth then so be it. It is his choice and does affect any of you in any meaningful way. The venom against people not wearing a helmet hear is laughable. Go ****ing ride and don't worry about other people's perceived stupidity.



Call_me_Clyde said:


> The OP, like the rest of us, has the right to choose. This includes choosing to throw caution to the wind. FWIW, I happen to feel that it's pretty stupid to ride without a helmet. The fact that the OP hasn't had a crash in 10 years is irrelevant to the situation. If you look at ER statistics in states like PA where motorcycle helmet laws have been repealed, severe head injuries and deaths have increased since it has become legal to ride without a helmet. My guess is that many of the people who now have brain damage or have died as a result of being in a motorcycle accident are also people who haven't had an accident in 10 years. It takes just one mishap.
> 
> My best wishes to the OP. I hope your rides are safe and accident free.
> 
> Bob


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

If you do, you do, if not then not....I can't and won't force you to wear one...

Personally, as someone who is a first aid volunteer and bike patroller, I've personally seen some of the havoc that can be wrought on the human body while just "putzing around." Most of the rest of the body will heal fairly well given time and/or surgery, but the brain doesn't....brain injuries are downright nasty things. Sure, the typical cycling helmet is not designed to protect you from massive energy inputs (like a Hummer doing 60 km/h) but it but does a decent job for bike speeds and average rider weights. 

Because I've seen the results of not having a helmet, I wear both on road or off.


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

coldsteele said:


> But those laws to save someone from themselves, to me, seem futile. people are going to do what they want, how they want to. So If you choose to ride without a helmet that is your decision and not mine. Wearing a helmet makes me feel comfortable. The other reason I wear it is because you can't always trust that everyone else can ride or pay attention as good as yourself.


Cept for when the insurance of the helmet wearing motorcyle owner is tripled because the hemlmet law is repealed, that kind of has an impact on more then the individual. Perhaps, take away the law, keep insurance the same price but say if your not wearing a helmet when you eat poo then your not covered.

As for riding, I always wear one, mostly because I have slammed my head enough times to be thankful.

I hit my head on the same beam twice and a foot long bolt sticking out of the wall at work, all on monday, I'm thinking I should wear my lid there too.


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

rzozaya1969 said:


> I think people should wear helmets, but I don't go preaching to every non helmet wearing rider I see, but I don't want to ride with someone don't wearing one. I just don't want to have to care for a comatose guy in the middle of nowhere..


Bingo, I've been out on the trail with a dude who was riding way to fast for his skills, off the trail in every corner, near sunset the day after an ice storm. He didn't wear gloves or a helmet because he was a "minimalist" I don't ride with him anymore.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I've never broken my leg....*

.... I guess that makes my legs unbreakable.


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## WhoUtink (Apr 16, 2006)

*Peepole hu where there helmuts r smrt*

I like the idea of darwinism and natural selection. I rode a bike all the time from the ages of 4 to 18, with absotively posilutly no helmet. Because my parents didnt put one on me. I am dumb and so are my parents thats why that whole darwinism thing got me(and Im dead now ) I kinda think this place would be a little better off if heklmets were never invented. that way we wood'ant half to here abut how dumb we are and how smart you are. I dont think wearing a helmet makes you smart, I think it makes you scared. just like the people who carry guns while they mountain bike because the are scared of wild turkeys and monkeys and stuff . I think the helmet sissys and the gun sissys . should call each other stupid for a little while. for no being scared of the right things. and while your at it go buy a bullet proof vest cuz getting shot by a ramdom robber would probably hurt a little. Just because YOU are scared of something happening doesnt mean everyone else has to live there life in fear like you smartypantses.


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## zr8tdk (Mar 17, 2006)

i have sent back more then one helmet that i crashed and saved my life. i have driven an hour to go riding and forgot my helmet and refused to ride so i turned around and went back for it.

i never wore one when i snowboarded until this last season and the first day i had it on i hit ice pack in vermont and feet went out from under me and hit my head on the ice...saved me again. Plus it keeps my head warm and a place to put my tunes

I live in PA where the motorcycle helmet law was recently lifted. Thanks to all the idiots riding around with shorts and sunglasses and no helmet and getting killed at a simple intersection dump because they smacked there head on the pavement...my insurance is going through the roof now. 

just use common sense. Why would you not want to wear one? why let a little uncontroled mishap ruin your day or life when all you had to do is put a helmet on.


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## WhoUtink (Apr 16, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> .... I guess that makes my legs unbreakable.


YOu should wear a cast on your legs and arms so they dont break.


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## rash (Nov 24, 2004)

*choice*

i have three kids.

i don't wear a helmet when i ride, road or mtb.

i don't have life insurance. i don't even save for their college fund.

it's the law in ca. for kids to wear helmets, but mine don't. because they are cool like me.

we don't wear seatbelts, either.

whatever happens, happens. when yer number's punched, it's punched. helmet or no.

that's how i roll. 

-rash


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## geoffss (Mar 23, 2004)

*You Win!!!*



Don Juan said:


> Still not sure what that meant, but anyway, I'm done with this helmet, and I'm not replacing it. I'll probably be killed by a falling piano next week.


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## m1k3mo (Jul 4, 2006)

Just throwing my 2 cents in that after flipping over the bars and having the bike come right behind me giving me 7 stitches where a helmet would have covered, got me wearing one (I think I was like 8 or 9) 2 years a took a tumble off a bridge (maybe 6 feet up) landed directly on my head cracked the helmet in 2 pieces and rode home with a concussion I think (never went to the doctor but I dont remember much of the day and my cordination was kinda off the next day)

So to the OP the crash that got me wearing a helmet and the crash that keeps me wearing one were about 12 years apart. Not telling you should wear one just saying 10 years seems like a long time but you just never know


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## Frozenspokes (May 26, 2004)

WhoUtink said:


> I like the idea of darwinism and natural selection. I rode a bike all the time from the ages of 4 to 18, with absotively posilutly no helmet. Because my parents didnt put one on me. I am dumb and so are my parents thats why that whole darwinism thing got me(and Im dead now ) I kinda think this place would be a little better off if heklmets were never invented. that way we wood'ant half to here abut how dumb we are and how smart you are. I dont think wearing a helmet makes you smart, I think it makes you scared. just like the people who carry guns while they mountain bike because the are scared of wild turkeys and monkeys and stuff . I think the helmet sissys and the gun sissys . should call each other stupid for a little while. for no being scared of the right things. and while your at it go buy a bullet proof vest cuz getting shot by a ramdom robber would probably hurt a little. Just because YOU are scared of something happening doesnt mean everyone else has to live there life in fear like you smartypantses.


OK, I was ready to let this thread slip by without a reply and then you post this bit of insight. The thing is, I truly agree with you on the point that much of what we see people buying into today is the culture of fear. Watch the evening news, followed by the Brinks home security commercial. They are selling fear. Look at the Onstar ads. They are selling fear. I am sure that many gun purchases are motivated by fear as well. I see ads selling fear all over the TV and know that many people are buying it.

Now, as a counter point, look in your favorite cycling magazine. Do the ads for the helmets show folks busted up, or flying off of there bikes towads impending doom that can only be prevented by brand X helmets? NO! They show us how stylish they are. They tell us how they channell the wind to keep our heads cooler than they would be without the helmet. They sometimes even show us pretty women (thanks Limar :thumbsup: ). So I don't buy into your "helmet wearers all just a bunch of scared pussies" argument. I would like to think that most of the folks wearing helmets have assessed the risk, and made the decision to wear one based on the EXTREMELY SEVERE consequenses of that relatively rare crash where a helmet is a factor. If you choose to catagorize that in the same vein as the mass media fear mongering that we see every day, go ahead. I don't.

For me, it just makes sense. Particularly after breaking four helmets in seven years of cycling, the thought of riding without one never even crosses my mind. This despite that fact that I suffered no head injuries at all either time I was hit by a car while riding as a kid back in the days before wide spread helmet use.

Maybe I am the one sucking up all of the OP's crashes for him:eekster:


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

I can't believe i'm getting into another stupid debate where nobody changes anybody's mind, but here goes.

For one, I don't get the whole "I'm riding on road so I don't need one, even though I always wear one off road" mindset. If traveling at any speed at all it easier to get hurt more on road, unless you hit a tree or rock offroad. Most of the time on my roadie, I'm traveling at speeds where It may not matter much if I'm wearing a lid, but I sure don't want to find out the worse side. 

I'm also of the mindset of not shoving your beliefs down others throats. And if you kill yourself cuz of not wearing a helmet thats your choice. Its alright if you kill yourself cuz hey, I don't know you. But I won't ride with anyone who doesn't wear a bucket


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2006)

*Casts*



WhoUtink said:


> YOu should wear a cast on your legs and arms so they dont break.


Most people choose to wear helmets as a preventative measure. Casts are usually worn to help with the healing part, once the damage is done. A better comparison would be 'armor', which is popular in certain circles.

I can't believe I'm sucked into this!

Helmets are light, comfortable, and do help greatly in some situations. For me, they're just another piece of cycling equipment. That is to say protective gear. I can't think of many times when I wished I didn't have one on. Along with this, my observation is that more than half of the people I see skiing / boarding at resorts (in Vermont and Utah, at least) are wearing helmets. I tend to notice those without these days.

My two cents.


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## EscourtU (Aug 15, 2006)

If someone wants to not wear a helmet fine by me. It is one of the few rights we have that hasn't been taken away from us by our screwed up Government. As for the guys carrying guns while riding, better have a conceal and carry permit especially if you are giving someone crap about not having a helmet. We are allowed to not wear helmets, you on the other hand have no right to carry a loaded weapon unless you have a permit. Personally it is them people who are the ones who are a danger to society. Should we complain about the SUV drivers for being a real threat to the road? No it is a right to buy and drive what you desire. I can't believe you all say "My insurance has gone up because you don't wear a helmet" Well If you wouldn't have been talking on your damn cell phone you wouldn't have ran me over. What about the brain problems from cell phone use? Maybe it is you who have raised my insurance costs for not paying attention and running people over, or getting tumors from using them so damn often. Get off your high horse and accept some of the responsibility that it is you and not the guy who rides without a helmet that has caused this country to raise the prices on everything. Don't be so quick to pass judgement when it is you who are to blame.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Frozenspokes said:


> OK, I was ready to let this thread slip by without a reply and then you post this bit of insight. The thing is, I truly agree with you on the point that much of what we see people buying into today is the culture of fear. Watch the evening news, followed by the Brinks home security commercial. They are selling fear. Look at the Onstar ads. They are selling fear. I am sure that many gun purchases are motivated by fear as well. I see ads selling fear all over the TV and know that many people are buying it.


What are you talking about? I have Brinks for my bike, OnStar for my bike, I ride with a helmet (actually 2), full body armor, a gun, a bullet proof vest, and thimbles. You really never know what's going to happen out on the trail, so it's better to be prepared. By the way, did I mention I ride with Mr T?

I think most people ride with helmets because a) they might help in the case of a crash and b) they're light. If they were heavy - if it hurt my neck to wear - I wouldn't wear one. Most people wouldn't. And anyone who doesn't do exactly as I do is degenerate, misinformed, or just plain stupid. I, in fact, pity the fool.


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## tommyjay (Feb 18, 2006)

*Do your own thing*

I tried not to get sucked into this one, but I felt I needed to mention one thing. Everyone has stated the safety reasons for wearing a helmet, but there's another aspect, I think...

I think helmet use is a personal choice. Decide for yourself. Do your own thing.

However, landowners and regulatory agencies that see people not wearing helmets on trails almost immediately interpret it as "greater potential liability." This impacts trail access - no one wants to be at a greater risk (real or imagined) of being sued.

MBA (or Bike) just had an article about some dope who hurt himself riding above his skill level and then turned around and sued the landowner and the local cycling club that maintained the trails! :madmax: IMHO, people like this should sell their bikes for the good of the sport.

Anyway, my point is - the helmet thing is your choice, and I respect it. Do your own thing. Tap dance helmetless with scissors in a crisco-greased bath tub. Just don't put trail access at risk. So if you want to ride without a helmet on the road, or in the park, or in your living room, that's cool. But on trails where bike access is already constantly under scrutiny, I think a helmet is a good idea.

Seriously, roll however you want, so long as you're not screwing everyone else over by doing it.

</rant> (HTML jokes, much like monkeys, are funny)


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Yeah, the original comparison of europe to america is ridiculous anyway. The OP didn't mention that the roads are smaller, people don't drive as fast or as much, cars are smaller, there are a shitload of small towns and villages that break up many 'highways', the cities were built around foot and horse traffic not car traffic, it is harder to get a license so drivers are more skillful, and a host of other differences.



Scribb said:


> They also still smoke like chimneys in Europe and Asia, and we know how good that is for your health. Spin that any way you want. Maybe they worry less about their health. Maybe they're just not so anal. Maybe they're a step behind. Maybe they have a synaptic deficiency that allows humans to project their actions into the future. Maybe they're just stupid.


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## coldsteele (Jul 9, 2004)

tommyjay may have just put up the best reason for the advocacy of helmet use.

And...there is no other way you would be able to use having helmet hair as an excuse to get out of something.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I don't recall anybody saying the Italians were particularly smart.


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

I read through every post in this thread and not one person commented on the potential danger of wearing a helmet (other than someone mentioning that a helmet could get caught on cement and cause a neck injury) but I"m talking about to your head.


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## pixelninja (Jan 7, 2004)

Scribb said:


> Well put. "If you suck, that means I'm better. The more you suck, the better I am. So. Let me count the ways you suck."


GOLD, JERRY! PURE GOLD!

Thanks for the new sig material.

I don't really care if people wear a helmet or not, but I do. I just feel weird without one. And yes, I make my 3-year-old daughter put her's on when she get's out her bike.


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## venom600 (Jul 10, 2006)

It's a personal choice, no use in arguing this point. Wear a helmet if you want, otherwise don't.......simple. Sheesh.


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## Superdude (Mar 18, 2006)

Eh...

I wear a helmet on the trails but don't bother on the road. Although I don't do much riding on the road, too dangerous.

It's more dangerous to ride a bike down a busy street wearing a helmet, than it is to ride a bike on a MTB trail without a helmet.


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## bob46802 (Mar 13, 2005)

It is not a matter of if, but when.


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## Stinky Wiz (Jan 27, 2004)

You may not be responsible for your next crash, but someone else may be. Remember, there are still AMERICAN DRIVERS out there!!  

You know the ones...they don't know what the fast lane is for....and take pleasure in dominating the road with SUV's larger than most european trucks. Have you been to the DMV lately? 

I wear a helmet on my push-bike for the same reason I wear one on a Motorcycle, to protect me from the other guy.


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## Frozenspokes (May 26, 2004)

normZurawski said:


> What are you talking about? I have Brinks for my bike, OnStar for my bike, I ride with a helmet (actually 2), full body armor, a gun, a bullet proof vest, and thimbles. You really never know what's going to happen out on the trail, so it's better to be prepared. By the way, did I mention I ride with Mr T?
> 
> I think most people ride with helmets because a) they might help in the case of a crash and b) they're light. If they were heavy - if it hurt my neck to wear - I wouldn't wear one. Most people wouldn't. And anyone who doesn't do exactly as I do is degenerate, misinformed, or just plain stupid. I, in fact, pity the fool.


Sorry, caght me at a bad moment. The point I was trying to make is that many companies use fear to push their unecasary, esoteric, chi chi, crap service/product on us.

Bike helmets don't fit that catagory by the way. They are very necasary. Particularly if you are me:eekster:


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## WhoUtink (Apr 16, 2006)

tommyjay said:


> Anyway, my point is - the helmet thing is your choice, and I respect it. Do your own thing. Tap dance helmetless with scissors in a crisco-greased bath tub. Just don't put trail access at risk. So if you want to ride without a helmet on the road, or in the park, or in your living room, that's cool. But on trails where bike access is already constantly under scrutiny, I think a helmet is a good idea.
> 
> Seriously, roll however you want, so long as you're not screwing everyone else over by doing it.
> 
> </rant> (HTML jokes, much like monkeys, are funny)


I agree with you totaly here . Im ride my bike to work on average 3 days a week to work helmetless. But when I ride the trails I do where a helmet because that is the only time* I * am puttting myself at risk . I am just tired of reading how dumb I am for not wearing it each and every single time iM on my bike


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## dtrek4500 (May 7, 2004)

I will never go on a ride without wearing a helmit. If I do ever forget it, I probably would not ride and I would go home and get it before I rode. I used to never wear one before my little accident. People get this helmits save lives, and I don't care if I spelled helmit wrong. Lol.
Dave


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Oh My Sack! said:


> I don't recall anybody saying the Italians were particularly smart.


I take offense for that...
I grew up in Italy, rode my bike since the age of 4 and never wore a helmet.
I bought my first bike helmet here in the US at the age of 31 and have to say I very much needed it, as I crash a lot.

The fact that you do not understand why people are beahving in a certain way does not necessarily makes you right and them wrong.
What is different between here and Italy is the philosophy of life, i.e. how do you take life.

Believe or not in Italy most people are 'fatalist', i.e. if something has to happen it will happen regardless of what you do. When something happens we say "it was written for you". That's why people don't wear seat belts, smoke, drive like crazy and don't wear bike helmets.If you don't spend much time worrying about what could happend you can focus on enjoing life and living the moment (ever heard "Carpe diem").

Here in the US it's all about being insured, prepared & protected. I might be wrong but it seems to me that people here spend a whole lot of time worrying about what could happen, and that's a miserable way of living IMHO.

But I don't judge on who's right and who's wrong: I just recognize we are different and respect that. 
If the OP is living in Italy will now be influenced by that way of life, and now he's thinking alike and feels like won't need an helmet. I see no reason to call him names.

The same way I've been influenced by the lifestile in the US and started wearing a helmet (and luckily so). But I like to think that it was written for me to do so, so I don't worry about it and just enjoy the ride... and hope everyone can do the same.
Write less ride more.
Peace


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

In response to the original post, I don't think a shop owner is doing much more than making a business decision if he says he doesn't stock helmets because his customers don't buy them. I'd chalk the rest of his comment up to the "Lost in translation" category.

Here in the US, I'm a polite guy. I'm not likely to say something to a stranger about wearing a helmet or not. As a younger guy, I did say to various folks I thought they were paranoid for wearing one. Then I had a little accident that sent me over the bars at 25 mph head first down a street. Amazingly I lost no teeth and broke no bones. But I did need stitches and you better believe I had major road rash and bruises. The ER doc that sewed me up suggested I was very lucky and that I buy a helmet and I did. 

Since then, I've owned a number of helmets, and two of them have been replaced because they were on my head when it made sudden contact with the ground. One accident was literally the day after reading how to tuck and roll in an accident. In the real world, sometimes things happen so fast there is no time to "tuck and roll".


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## bigbore (May 11, 2006)

lol @ the comment about a car...

how the hell is riding a car the same as riding a bike..

do we all ride with helmets? the pros do so why dont we? are we all stupid because we dont? :madman:


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## RustyBearings (Feb 7, 2005)

100th post. 

I wear a helmet because I'm too young to die.. and unlike you, I fall.


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## normZurawski (Mar 30, 2006)

Zen_Turtle said:


> Believe or not in Italy most people are 'fatalist', i.e. if something has to happen it will happen regardless of what you do. When something happens we say "it was written for you". That's why people don't wear seat belts, smoke, drive like crazy and don't wear bike helmets.If you don't spend much time worrying about what could happend you can focus on enjoing life and living the moment (ever heard "Carpe diem").


That's called rationalization. Don't get me wrong, I agree with those who say that we live in a society that tries to strike fear into everyone so they buy a certain product. But if I live for the day I'm going to eat so poorly I'll probably keel over with a coronary from too many hamburgers. The fact is that a helmet is inconvenient, and those who smoke know it's hard to quit. So instead of changing they say, "Hey, when it's your time, it's your time." I'm sure many of the fatalists also choose to buy the slightly more expensive tires for their cars than the cheapest ones possible. Fatalism only covers certain topics? In the end we all choose a certain lifestyle. But don't lie to yourself and say it's fatalism. Admit a helmet is unfahionable or inconvenient, but not in conflict with your destiny.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Probably a repost of a previous idea, but call it common sense if so...

Does anybody here follow motor racing? Any form, I don't care if its NASCAR, Le Mans, or WRC. Do you see any of those guys racing without a safety harness? I say safety harness only because the helmet, HANS device, and fire resistant suit can be considered gravy after the harness is considered. When you operate at high speeds around other moving vehicles, or even by yourself when WRC is in question, you run the risk of hitting something that will slow your velocity considerably. The safety harness in conjunction with the frame of the vehicle are the only line of defense to prevent the driver from being hurled into an object and being completely obliterated. Helmet and etc. are simply secondary devices. Now consider our sport, be it mountain or road biking. We ride at velocities exceeding what would be considered normal for a human being to obtain. We go up steep grades, and down steeper grades more often than not. We don't have any method to restrain our bodies from being subjected to severe forces like race car drivers do. Now, consider the options we have to prevent severe trauma to our most precious organ, our brain. What do we call it again, oh yeah, a helmet right? Now, why would we ever elect to not use the one device to protect our evolutionary device for being a human? Modern designs have good ventilation, light weight, and comfort, so what if they look goofy to some Italian retard? I'd love to have a racing harness to protect me, but in the mean time, I'll stick with the helmet even if the author of the original post thinks their unnecessary.


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## Brent98 (Jun 2, 2006)

Clutchman83 said:


> Probably a repost of a previous idea, but call it common sense if so...
> 
> Does anybody here follow motor racing? Any form, I don't care if its NASCAR, Le Mans, or WRC. Do you see any of those guys racing without a safety harness? I say safety harness only because the helmet, HANS device, and fire resistant suit can be considered gravy after the harness is considered. When you operate at high speeds around other moving vehicles, or even by yourself when WRC is in question, you run the risk of hitting something that will slow your velocity considerably. The safety harness in conjunction with the frame of the vehicle are the only line of defense to prevent the driver from being hurled into an object and being completely obliterated. Helmet and etc. are simply secondary devices. Now consider our sport, be it mountain or road biking. We ride at velocities exceeding what would be considered normal for a human being to obtain. We go up steep grades, and down steeper grades more often than not. We don't have any method to restrain our bodies from being subjected to severe forces like race car drivers do. Now, consider the options we have to prevent severe trauma to our most precious organ, our brain. What do we call it again, oh yeah, a helmet right? Now, why would we ever elect to not use the one device to protect our evolutionary device for being a human? Modern designs have good ventilation, light weight, and comfort, so what if they look goofy to some Italian retard? I'd love to have a racing harness to protect me, but in the mean time, I'll stick with the helmet even if the author of the original post thinks their unnecessary.


You are very correct, street cars have safety features which vitually eliminate the need to a helmet, they keep your head from hitting anything. Racing drivers take every precaution because their crashes are so violent that there is no way to prevent their head from hitting something. There is no saftey feature on a bike which lessens the likelyhood that you head will collide with the ground or some other object. Anyway, we dont choose when to have accidents, and Ive had accidents at 0 mph, on my road bike I clipped out of my right pedal and before I knew it I was leaning to the left and fell over, luckily I only dinged up my elbow and my knee, didnt even have any bruises and my bike was undamaged. If theres ever a situation where I think a helmet would look stupid or be too hot, I just dont ride, but Ive ridden in temps of well over 100 degrees, and while I was hot, taking off the helmet wasnt something ive considered. Anyway, if youre on your bike all dressed up in lycra, you already look stupid, why is wearing a helmet going to make you look any stupider?


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

Let me introduce you to friend and former co-worker, a great guy who was killed on the job in large part because many of us were too cool to wear helmets while working: http://www.ahalenia.com/memorial/yianni.html

RIP, Yianni.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

I wear a helmet because I have yet to learn how to predict my endos.


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## Sixty Fiver (Apr 10, 2006)

I work in Rehabilitation and there are a number of folks I have worked with that now require some intensive supports after being involved in accidents where a helmet would have likely prevented the serious head traumas they suffered. 

A number of them were riding bikes while others were doing what most of us would consider low risk activities and you really don't have to come off a bike at any great speed to suffer grievous head injuries.

My friend just started riding and was very reluctant to get a helmet and I must admit, she looked pretty good riding that vintage bike with her long blond hair flowing behind her. I had to tell her that although I loved her and enjoyed spending time with her, she really needed to get a helmet as I didn't ever want to find us in a place where our quality time involved my having to feed her with a spoon. She looks just as good in a helmet btw.

I've been riding without training wheels for almost 36 years and much of my early road riding was done without a helmet cause I was simply an idiot. 

I haven't suffered any grievous head injuries while riding despite having some pretty spectacular wipeouts and I put this all down to having good reflexes and having the biking gods smile upon me.( I'm actually off my bike now as I toasted my knee last Tuesday trying to avoid another cyclist on the trail).

But...I only figure that I only have to head butt one tree when I'm whipping down the trail to make that helmet worth every cent I paid for it and the same applies to when I'm riding on the road, whether it is for pleasure or on the commute.

Who knows what could have happened the other day had I experienced a full on body to body and bike to bike impact instead of lying things down and bailing ?

I really treasure my ability to complete full sentences.


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## Mudflaps (Sep 7, 2005)

*Trees just hate politicians...*

..of any party. Not that it's relavant to this discussion.

For my part, I have "used up" five helmets, both on and off-road. A few of those incidents would have been serious injuries, or worse. When you look at the helmet that bears five major cracks in the foam, you have to wonder what would have happened if you'd not been wearing it. 
I also woke up in a hospital once in the days before helmets were common (1973, or '74), to find out that the story was that I'd launched off of a mountain curve, (on a road bike) hung the bike up in a tree and had an ambulance ride. I still don't recall any of the details except hopping onto the bike at the top of the hill to chase my friend down the road. The story was provided by others on the scene.

So now, I wear a helmet anytime I hop aboard a bike. I also use seatbelts in my car. To each their own.



Brah said:


> Those are often the examples that people site. Both died from hitting trees, but a helmet would not have helped either one. Both died from internal injuries. Lately my friends have been pressuring me to wear a ski helmet, with a lot of the same arguments used on this board. I doubt if I will.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*let me add...*



M.J. said:


> this whole debate's confused - it sounds like the OP did a road ride not a mtb ride and is making some assumptions mostly cause he's no longer doing any serious offroad
> 
> the risks on road v off road for going without a helmet are not comparable


... that somebody strolling down a bike lane or paved off highway bike path at 8 MPH on a comfort or city bike, is not the same thing as riding a road bike at 20-50 MPH on a country road, or the same thing as railing 10-35 MPH on technical singletrack. He's comparing apples to gerbils, here.

A lot more people use bicycles are general trasportation in Europe than they do here. They also have a much higher acceptance of accidents over there.

I won't do any real (meaning, more than 7 MPH on a bike path) riding with anybody not wearing a helmet. When I was a teen riding my BMX on the trail in the 80s, back when none of us could afford mountain bikes yet, I was with a guy who slid out going like 10 MPH and hit his head on a rock. He never woke up. None of us wore helmets back then. I have no desire to pull any more (soon to be) dead bodies off the trail. If you don't have the brains to care enough about your own basic personal protection, I don't want to be near you when you cause an accident that might take me out as well.

All that versus the 'price' of wearing a helmet. $60 for a pretty nice one, and when I wear it, I hardly notice that I'm wearing it. It's an easy choice for me. If you're judgnig this by the lid you bought in '98, I gotta say, they've come a long way since then.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Uh, Grossly uninformed*

Most folks I ride with who had their bells rung, didn't 'fall on thier heads', they had the bike squirt out from under them, fell sideways or forward, and their heads hit something like a rock or a tree. On several occasions, the rider got up, shook it off, and only then noticed that thier helmet was cracked in two when it hit a tree or something. They didn't fall off a cliff and land on their heads, or land a jump upside down.


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## cajonezzz (Aug 2, 2004)

It's funny, the other day I'm driving and i see a couple of pro kitted out road racer types coming up the hill near my house ( carlsbad ca). I notice the guy WITHOUT the helmet first, only because he sticks out. I remember thinking at that time that he looked " unfinished" with out the helmet- as though he stood out MORE without a lid on. 
not good or bad in a style way, just a thought that I had never had before re: helmets. 

I will ride the local bike path, or around the neiborhood without a helmet, but on any offroad ride, I feel naked with out it. I've cracked two helmets BADLY when smaking my head on mtn bike rides, and I'd think it's fair to say that I'd have experienced some head injury had I not had it on. 
Had a motorcycle accident in 2000, where I was cut off and the car clipped my front wheel... I went down at 45mph and remember vividly sliding on my face ( full face helmet) and hearing the grinding sound, and thinking rather peacefully: "gee I'm glad I have a full face helmet on" before grinding to a halt. 
along that line, when I see road riders desending at 55 mph wearing lycra AND a helmet,I just shudder to think about a crash at that speed, and them not wearing uppers and lowers ( like i did when I rode motorcycles) 
I don't care one way or the other for folks I don't know, what they do or don't do when it comes to personal safety, but if it's my friends I'm riding with, or I'm riding with my daughter in the trailer, i pretty much draw the line at wearing a helmet. I really don't want my friends or loved ones to crack their skull.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Don Juan said:


> I can't, he's dead.


 FYI, the Steelers QB isn't dead, he just sucks.

But anyway, not wearing a helmet is equivalent to not wearing a seat belt.  I haven't been in a car accident in a couple years, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna quit wearing it. So saying you aren't gonna wear a helmet becuase you haven't fallen in awhile is kind of the same thing. Anyway, people are free to do what they want. I don't wear a helmet when I ride my bike to the bars, which may be the most dangerous of any ride, so I can't judge.


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## konacoiler (Aug 7, 2006)

And so the great helmet debate goes on..I'm constantly bombarded by a co-workers anti helmet BS. This guy insists that wearing a helmet is more dangerous than not..especially full face-you'll break your neck. I always use the example of freestyle motocross/supercross..how many of those guys would be dead/veggies if they didn't wear helmets? Next time you see a guy do a back flip on a motorcycle..crash..smash his head off the dirt..and get up and walk off..ask yourself if the result would be the same if he were helmetless..


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## ckupq (Aug 25, 2006)

benja55 said:


> Passing judgement on others, be they strangers, friends, coworkers etc is the easiest and simplest way of validating our own lives, choices etc. It makes us feel good for a moment, and like you say, it staves off that essential fear: are we living a good life, however we choose to define that.
> 
> But like you point out, it prevents us from knowing ourselves and others.
> 
> And we all do it. Every day. Some more then others.


Ya know you're absolutely right. I've been lurking on this site for a month now before I actually registered. Between this site and mmba I've seen this debate rage on for awhile. The rest of this thread will probably go something like this.

You don't wear a helmet,you're stupid. 
You don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle, you're an idiot.(how this pertains to mountian biking I don't know)
I don't wear a helmet while I'm doing yardwork/ladder work/sitting watching TV and I'm ok, but you should wear a helmet. 
I support the fact that you don't wear a helmet and that is your choice. ( then these people get flamed)

Personally I don't wear a helmet riding back and forth to campus, but I do on mtb trails. Yes I've had some potential problem riding to campus, but I've been riding this way since I was a kid. Plus with friends who are dirt jumpers and avid mtb'ers you'd be hard pressed to find them wearing a helmet to school. I find it kinda sad? that I just spent my first post helping defend someone I don't know because people always :nono: when they think someone should wear a helmet.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

So, a couple days ago, I pitched my old helmet, and not wanting to put any of the other 20 or so icky, greasy helmets laying around here, I wrote the original post. Later on, I swung a leg over a tt, and found I was too busy thinking about feeling like I was riding naked, to ride more than about 10 feet. So I called up my favorite helmet company, and a new one's on the way. ...to ease the minds of you who seem to care so much.

But hey, thanks for the occasionally thoughtful replies. Some good discussion, and a few good points buried in there. Also a lot of self-centered BS about other peoples potential self-centered BS, so thanks too, to those of you who assumed any number of things, and then went on to spew like a ruptured sewage pipe.

Most amusing were those of you intent on displaying your amazing grasp of natural selection (especially seconds after calling me stupid). As if a tiny, tiny percentage of people dying, scattered worldwide, of random accidents compounded by a conscious act of not wearing a helmet, with no mention given to whether the individual has already reproduced or not, constitutes a hereditary behavioral trait that will have any impact whatsoever on the further evolutionary direction of the species. Absolutely brilliant. Incidentally, in case you've never looked into it, the evolutionary direction of our species is headed straight into chaos that makes an entire world of people riding helmetless look like a walk in the park on a sunny day. Have a look. It's real neat.

Boy am I an a$$hole, huh...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


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## ozz (May 30, 2006)

006_007 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


Jeez after seeing the pics in that thread I'm putting on my helmet right now...and all I'm doing is some time on the trainer.


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## crawli (Apr 11, 2005)

*Good Jorb!*



Don Juan said:


> But hey, thanks for the occasionally thoughtful replies. Some good discussion, and a few good points buried in there. Also a lot of self-centered BS about other peoples potential self-centered BS, so thanks too, to those of you who assumed any number of things, and then went on to spew like a ruptured sewage pipe.


I've had some good laughs reading this thread. Nothing like going against popular opinion to bring out the a$$holes, eh? It's an absolute miracle that we all got through childhood - riding without helmets, playing outside, mucking in the dirt instead of safely playing videogames or watching tv in a controlled setting with constant supervision. I'm not sure that it's really anybody's business what you do, but if there is one thing that is universal, it's other people constantly trying to bend others to their will and opinion. So do what you'd like, and bravo for doing just that. Hey, if you want to ride without a helmet then go for it. Have fun riding with the wind in your hair.


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## crawli (Apr 11, 2005)

*Good Jorb!*



Don Juan said:


> But hey, thanks for the occasionally thoughtful replies. Some good discussion, and a few good points buried in there. Also a lot of self-centered BS about other peoples potential self-centered BS, so thanks too, to those of you who assumed any number of things, and then went on to spew like a ruptured sewage pipe.


I've had some good laughs reading this thread. Nothing like going against popular opinion to bring out the a$$holes, eh? It's an absolute miracle that we all got through childhood - riding without helmets, playing outside, mucking in the dirt instead of safely playing videogames or watching TV in a controlled setting with constant supervision. I'm not sure that it's really anybody's business what you do, but if there is one thing that is universal, it's other people constantly trying to bend others to their will and opinion. So do what you'd like, and bravo for doing just that. Hey, if you want to ride without a helmet then go for it. Have fun riding with the wind in your hair.


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## (:aP (May 13, 2004)

I don't ride bike on the road with or without helmet. I stay off roads cause US drivers generally have no consideration for bikes. SC has over 500 reported bike/car accidents a year. 3 were killed in Greenville in a 2 month period this year. I believe that in Europe there is more appreciation of and consideration for bikers, because they have been mainstream and more common on the roads for a long time, therefore it's safer riding over there. In the woods there's just too many trees and rocks around to take the risk. Accidents are totally unforseen and unpredictable, so I wear a helmet all the time.


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## snowjnky (Oct 7, 2005)

*I agree*



CactusJoe said:


> No helmet? Must not have much to protect in the first place.


I could not have said it better.

I JUST ONCE WANT TO HEAR ONE OF THE HELMET-LESS IDIOTS ADMIT THEY DON'T WEAR ONE BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE TO COOL


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## EscourtU (Aug 15, 2006)

The fire station right close to my house had a safety gathering and they had kids helmets there. Since I have one it only makes sense to buy my girls one also. So we went over and I bought them both a helmet. My 6 year old has really scared me lately, I caught her riding down the street and staring up into the sky and not looking where she was going. I had to literally scream at her to look where she was going as she was headed straight towards a parked car. In that instant I knew I needed to get them both helmets. She also went cruising and took a corner fast and dragged a pedal on the ground almost causing her to crash. Two incidents in one day. If I crash no biggy but it kills me to think of my girls getting hurt.


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## AlanB (Jan 12, 2004)

What makes you think I wear a ski helmet for protection in case I fall?

I wear it for protection from all the morons who don't know how to carry skis or check before lowering the chair's safety bar. They're the real hazard. 

Plus it saves on sunscreen.:thumbsup:


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

You guys actually wear helmets? :eekster: Who does that anymore? What loser's :skep: 
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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Just Kidding :thumbsup:


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

Don Juan said:


> Also a lot of self-centered BS about other peoples potential self-centered BS, so thanks too, to those of you who assumed any number of things, and then went on to spew like a ruptured sewage pipe.


Sounds like a vicious circle...


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## pinkheadedbug (Aug 16, 2006)

About twenty years ago two friends and I were on touring bikes heading down the Quiraing, which is a steep descent on the Isle of Skye (see pic below which shows the road). No helmets... we'd never even SEEN helmets.

We were going pretty fast when suddenly my friend John just sailed past, doing an insane speed. He look on the cusp of being out of control. He accelerated, and began a speed wobble. Eventually he hit a patch of gravel and the bike slipped sideways and catapulted him into the air. He must have flown ten or twenty feet before he landed on his head.

When we got there he was unconscious. The hood of his rainjacket was filled with blood and hair. We got him upright and managed to flag down a passing VW bus which took him and his bike to the nearest hospital... we cycled in pursuit.

Well, he was okay apart from a concussion and picking blood out of his hair for the next few days. We continued cycling the next day. But he very nearly died and a helmet would have saved him.

It turned out his brake pads had melted during the descent causing total brake failure.

As a snowboarder I've been saved several nasty concussions by a helmet. I don't really like biking with a helmet because I grew up not doing so. But the alternatives are worse.

I had an acquaintance who died in a slow speed bike accident because he was not wearing a helmet. He was simply cycling around Regent's Park in London when a inline skater hammered into him, going backwards and too fast. I'd guess neither of them saw it coming.


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## pinkheadedbug (Aug 16, 2006)

sorry, here's the pic of the Quiraing descent:


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

That's an insane descent! I'd be afraid to do it with my new disc brakes!!! Well....maybe if I was encased in a roll of bubble wrap


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## pinkheadedbug (Aug 16, 2006)

What made it worse, at least when we did it, were the loose gravel patches about half way down (on the stretch just after then bend).

[edit] it's steeper than it looks, too


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## venus1 (Aug 4, 2006)

It must match the bike color.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

venus1 said:


> It must match the bike color.


Absolutely! If you're goin' down hard, you gotta look good doing it! :thumbsup:


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

ozz said:


> Jeez after seeing the pics in that thread I'm putting on my helmet right now...and all I'm doing is some time on the trainer.


Yeah...that's just nuckin' futz!!! I always wear my helmet but after seeing that linked thread, I'm gonna start wearing it around the house and in the shower!!!  :madman:


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## Bob the Wheelbuilder (Sep 21, 2003)

snowjnky said:


> I could not have said it better.
> 
> I JUST ONCE WANT TO HEAR ONE OF THE HELMET-LESS IDIOTS ADMIT THEY DON'T WEAR ONE BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE TO(o) COOL


Kinda like smokers that say they smoke 'cause they "like the taste."


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## goldenraptor (Aug 25, 2006)

After riding 5 years without a helmet, reading this thread for 20 minutes had shown me my stupid ways. What is a good bike helmet that will not fall after not matter what and breathes very well?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

This has been said, but you really should use a helmet. Sure you haven't crashed in 10 years but it's unlikely that you'll never crash again and it will take only one crash without a helmet to kill you when a helmet might have saved your life. Sure they look a little dorky still and make you run hotter than without, but I'd rather live and be hot than die and be .. uh dead.


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## moff_quigley (Jan 1, 2004)

If "Pete" was still around this thread would be legendary...I miss Pete. Here's to you Mr. Fagerlin.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

sonicsuby said:


> This has been said, but you really should use a helmet. Sure you haven't crashed in 10 years but it's unlikely that you'll never crash again and it will take only one crash without a helmet to kill you when a helmet might have saved your life. Sure they look a little dorky still and make you run hotter than without, but I'd rather live and be hot than die and be .. uh dead.


Internet + Retards = Best helmet thread ever.

Try reading a thread before you post in it.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

moff_quigley said:


> If "Pete" was still around this thread would be legendary...I miss Pete. Here's to you Mr. Fagerlin.


Agreed, Pete is greatly missed. Between his helmet beliefs and www.yestubes.com he is a legend!


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Pete is still around, he recently posted in the Norcal forum. We've had a few threads recently (cough: cough: the Ryders thread cough: cough


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## 95Stumpy (Jul 29, 2005)

*My riding partner took a header today*

He was going over a wet fallen log that was about 3 inches in diameter. It wasn't actually perpendicular on the trail. He lifted his front like he was going to hop over it. Rear wheel, instead of going over it, rolled over it and slid out. He went down instantly. His head smacked right against a small tree that was on the side of the trail. Basically took the brunt of the fall. Thank god No headache or other symptoms. It shook him up a little bit. Checked his Giro E2 helmet out, dented on the plastic outer part, foam was cracked. He managed to get an 06 replacement through Giro's program for a little less than when he bought it on closeout. He would have been out cold without a helmet. He now has a helmet momento in his office.


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## Scribb (May 4, 2006)

goldenraptor said:


> After riding 5 years without a helmet, reading this thread for 20 minutes had shown me my stupid ways. What is a good bike helmet that will not fall after not matter what and breathes very well?


I'm not certain, but I think the price has more to do with comfort and looks than reliability. My $35 entry-level Giro saved my melon from a hard landing on a rock--it shattered and I only wound up with a slight concussion. But it always made me overheat on long climbs, so I'd end up strapping it to my bars until I reached the top. I recently upgraded to a $100 Giro Xen, and it's far more comfortable, and breathes like a fresh breeze. The only time I've strapped it to the bars on a climb was during the recent summer heat wave--100+ degrees. I guess comfort matters if it means keeping the lid on your head.


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

goldenraptor said:


> After riding 5 years without a helmet, reading this thread for 20 minutes had shown me my stupid ways. What is a good bike helmet that will not fall after not matter what and breathes very well?


Giro, love the road models, love the mountain and freeride models too. I've been using them, and the occasional Bell, for 12 years now and Giros have saved my life on at least two occasions and saved me from serious injury in several others.


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## Ross W. (Jul 3, 2006)

all the giro, bell, whatever models have to meet the same safety standards. You just pay more for venting, looks, and less weight. If you don't care about looks, a fifty dollar helmet will protect you just as well as a one hundred fifty dollar one. (unless its a full face)


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## TrashBike (Sep 17, 2005)

*Consider this...*



Don Juan said:


> Today I looked at my crappy old helmet....
> 
> Time to get a new one?
> 
> ...


I also have not had a serious crash in years where I can really say that the helmet saved me... until today. I went for a ride on some local trails this evening. The trails are not more than a mile or so from my place and was riding home through downtown about a half mile from my apartment. 
All of a sudden I see a white minivan parked on the side of the road start to open their door. In the split second that I realize the door is opening I also notice traffic to my left. I'm screwed. I grab a handfull of brakes and tuck my chin to let the helmet to its job. 
BANG!
I get doored. I'm over the handle bars and still half clipped in. Both lanes of traffic come to a screeching halt. Luckily I am fine... THANKS TO MY HELMET!!!!!! A little dinged up and temporary ringing in my ear. It must have looked pretty bad because the people that got out of their cars looked more shook up than I was (especially the little old lady that doored me). On the way home I thought of your goofy post.

The moral of this story??? You may crash on the trail, but on the way to/from that trail you run the risk of being rendered brain dead by a little old lady's car door.

Wear your helmet, dude.


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## inzane (Jun 20, 2006)

Simple darwinism.

The more intelligent people realise that no matter how well or safely you ride accidents will happen. Usually the accident that will get you will be something outside of your control.

Helmets help stop brain injuries. I have smashed about 6 helmets. About half of these were mtbike trail crashes. The others consist of bad drivers and equipment failure. If I had not been wearing a helmet I might not be here typing this.

Of course it comes back to personal choice, but I do believe that it is survival of the fittest (or maybe survival of the more intelligent). Your choice...


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## mtnfiend (Feb 26, 2004)

006_007 said:


> https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


This is the exact thread I thought about when I read this idiots post. Good call. Don, you could look like him too the first time you f uck up in ten years. It only takes once to get a tube in you head to drain the fluid.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

From Mr. "Rise Above Mediocrity": "This is the exact thread I thought about when I read this idiots post. Good call. Don, you could look like him too"

Thanks for the wisdom. If I wasn't such an idiot, I might follow it... Also, try paying attention long enough to the thread to see if it was resolved or not, before posting your 100x redundant advice.

-----

From Mr Inzane:

"Simple darwinism.

The more intelligent people realise that no matter how well or safely you ride accidents will happen"

You sure sound smart. Darwinism, huh? Darwinism. I know I'm impressed, especially at how intelligent you look in your avatar with that huge bottle in your pie-eyed face. I don't suppose you draw any evolutionary conclusions about alchoholism, do you?

-----

From Mr "Wear your helmet, dude." (yes sir, your wish is my command).

"In the split second that I realize the door is opening I also notice traffic to my left."

You also notice traffic? I guess that makes you kind of a dumbass, doesn't it? Try not riding through dense traffic with your head in the clouds. Urban riding requires you to maintain your envelope and PAY ATTENTION. Yes, you're right, YOU should definitely wear a helmet.

-----

And, for any of you other self-riteous windbags so anxious to toot your own horns that you can't be bothered to read back a few posts, I'll post it again:

Originally Posted by Don Juan

So, a couple days ago, I pitched my old helmet, and not wanting to put any of the other 20 or so icky, greasy helmets laying around here, I wrote the original post. Later on, I swung a leg over a tt, and found I was too busy thinking about feeling like I was riding naked, to ride more than about 10 feet. So I called up my favorite helmet company, and a new one's on the way. ...to ease the minds of you who seem to care so much.

But hey, thanks for the occasionally thoughtful replies. Some good discussion, and a few good points buried in there. Also a lot of self-centered BS about other peoples potential self-centered BS, so thanks too, to those of you who assumed any number of things, and then went on to spew like a ruptured sewage pipe.

Most amusing were those of you intent on displaying your amazing grasp of natural selection (especially seconds after calling me stupid). As if a tiny, tiny percentage of people dying, scattered worldwide, of random accidents compounded by a conscious act of not wearing a helmet, with no mention given to whether the individual has already reproduced or not, constitutes a hereditary behavioral trait that will have any impact whatsoever on the further evolutionary direction of the species. Absolutely brilliant. Incidentally, in case you've never looked into it, the evolutionary direction of our species is headed straight into chaos that makes an entire world of people riding helmetless look like a walk in the park on a sunny day. Have a look. It's real neat.

Boy am I an a$$hole, huh...


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## pinkheadedbug (Aug 16, 2006)

Don Juan, carry on not wearing a helmet. Please.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

Again...


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## derby (Jan 12, 2004)

If nothing under it is worth protecting, then no helmet required. 

There's no point in arguing about it, unless you are a parent enforcing the wearing of a helmet on your child too young to make a wise choice.


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

Don Juan said:


> And, for any of you other self-riteous windbags so anxious to toot your own horns that you can't be bothered to read back a few posts, I'll post it again:


So if that's what they're doing, what are you up to? Just regular old insults without the self-righteousness? I suppose that's progress. :thumbsup:


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## stucol (Jun 26, 2006)

Here in the UK it is very unusual to see anyone doing proper Mountain Biking without a helmet on. Lots of folk use leg armour as well.

95% of roadies ( i am one too) wear helmets.

Italian males have a very macho culture. It is illegal to not wear a seat belt over there. Very few do. They have the same traffic laws as Britian, they just choose to ignore them.
In one week in Italy i witnessed 6 road traffic accidents ( minor bumps and scooter riders being knocked off). That will be why they don't bother with helmets either.

That said. The Italians are the most carefull and considerate road users in the world compared to the Portugese !!


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

sam60 said:


> if you choose not to wear a helmet then you are an idiot


Case closed.


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

sam60 said:


> if you choose not to wear a helmet then you are an idiot


case closed


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## inzane (Jun 20, 2006)

Nah, the darwinism theory will not work in this case. If they are not going to use protection on their bike and they have already passed puberty it is quite likely that they have no faith in protection when it comes to having sex either...and so very likely that they will have passed their genes onto a whole new generation of people who think that not wearing a helmet is the intelligent choice. This means there will always be a helmet vs no helmet arguement raging somewhere!!


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## Gflash (Nov 7, 2004)

First of all I always wear a helmet, off road or on-road. Why cause because a majority of American drivers are hostile or ignorant to bikers and biking in general. I have not been to Italy but I feel that the drivers there are more aware and courteous to bikers. Less accidents so Italians feel less of a need to wear a helmet. In the USA, you can be in a designated bike lane and have a Ford Excursion nearly take your head off with its rear view mirror and then the driver will then give YOU the one-finger salute. Shouldn't I be the one doing the one-finger salute? So since you live in the USA where a lot of drivers just don't give a damn about bikers waer a helmet on the road. Wear one off-road since you will never know when your head will looked like a cracked egg after bashing it against a rock. So wear a helmet all the time.


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## Gflash (Nov 7, 2004)

Whoops my bad, did not read his profile first. Still he should wear a helmet. His head I guess, he can do what he wants with it.


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## Petey the Greek. (Sep 9, 2006)

He doesn't live in the USA. He lives in Switzerland. ...and he's right, this is how you do a helmet thread. 5000reads... whew!

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=218659


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