# Bitter!



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

well I went and picked it up, frame is sooo tiny! :eekster: 20.5" toptube. I might just have to build it into a BMX  if I build it on 24" wheels, my feet will clear the front tire. 

























































I blame any problems that owners have with manitou stance completly on GF. what kind of springs are in here? someone less than 100 pounds would still probably bottom this fork. so medium and heavy springs from manitou are on their way to my house. 
heres my sag.

Sitting








Standing








Bottomed (tire clearence upgrade thing)









heres a comparison in size, next to the P.2









and some yummy fork.









anyone think I should build the bitter up? seems pretty small  if not I'm selling it.


----------



## f0ggy (Jul 5, 2006)

yay...


----------



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

congrats on the new pick-up, hope it works out for ya'.

did you just swap forks just to try it out? chainstays look waay longer than your P's... maybe just illusion in the pic.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> congrats on the new pick-up, hope it works out for ya'.
> 
> did you just swap forks just to try it out? chainstays look waay longer than your P's... maybe just illusion in the pic.


they're about the same length. sadly though, I put some cranks on the bitter, and pressed in a headset, rode it around a bit ... its just too small


----------



## Tag1 (Mar 17, 2006)

You should at least throw some parts on and try it out - small bikes are much easier to throw around, you might end up really liking it...


----------



## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

You are officially addicted to buying bikes.


----------



## bitterrider (Sep 21, 2006)

With my stance I took some rubber washers and jammed em down on top of the spring and jammed the cap on. It worked well. No more bottoming out or excessive squish. I also put some real heavy oil in it. I like that 13in frame kinda wish I woulda got it. But the 15 is also pretty small, but im a small dude, The 15 is only a little bigger than my dk looks like the 13 is about the same size as a 24 bmx cruiser.


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

If it weren't for the long chainstays, I would suggest riding it.... the chainstays would seal the deal for me though, TO THE CURB!


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Tag1 said:


> You should at least throw some parts on and try it out - small bikes are much easier to throw around, you might end up really liking it...


read the above post.....I did that.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

sittingduck said:


> If it weren't for the long chainstays, I would suggest riding it.... the chainstays would seal the deal for me though, TO THE CURB!


they're really not all that long. same length as the P.2


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

bitterrider said:


> With my stance I took some rubber washers and jammed em down on top of the spring and jammed the cap on. It worked well. No more bottoming out or excessive squish. I also put some real heavy oil in it. I like that 13in frame kinda wish I woulda got it. But the 15 is also pretty small, but im a small dude, The 15 is only a little bigger than my dk looks like the 13 is about the same size as a 24 bmx cruiser.


naw, I've got heavy springs coming, and manitou is looking around to see if they have any left over sherman internals.


----------



## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

shave that nasty 'stache


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Jamming washers in only adds preload. It does not change the k-constant of the spring. It is harsher and won't bob as much, but it will still blow through the travel at the same rate. Also, if the spring does not have enough freelength, you could be limiting the travel or cause the coil to bind.


----------



## bitterrider (Sep 21, 2006)

The washers are rubber, so they have some give. And it will not blow through travel with a hevier weight oil like what I used. As much as you want to tell me what is gonna happen, only I know whats happening with my fork cause its on my bike that I ride.


----------



## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

edit: stupid pic, i had a better one but i can't find it


----------



## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

My idea: sell all your entry level bikes and get a real one.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> My idea: sell all your entry level bikes and get a real one.


none of my bikes are even close to entry level.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

pavement_hurts said:


> shave that nasty 'stache


You're really retarded.


----------



## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

todd_freeride said:


> You're really retarded.


how so? it appears that you are sporting the adam morrison look. adam morrison sports the pubescent-looking fuzz-stache. it was an observation. perhaps you just have a dark upper lip.


----------



## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

damn that think looks slack in the 1st pic..


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

bitterrider said:


> The washers are rubber, so they have some give. And it will not blow through travel with a hevier weight oil like what I used. As much as you want to tell me what is gonna happen, only I know whats happening with my fork cause its on my bike that I ride.


I missed the part about the oil. A more viscuous oil will slow down the rebound as well.

And as I said, adding preload to the spring will not change the spring rate or k-constant. And it can lead to binding. And no... other people can know what's going to happen with a fork based on what is done. I have custom tuned and valved suspension for a number of people, I know what I'm talking about.

I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to inform you so you can make correct decisions that won't get you hurt. If you don't care for what I have to say, fine.


----------



## bitterrider (Sep 21, 2006)

Not trying to be a dick im sure you do know what your doing, but the fork has been working fine scince i stuck the washers in. If the spring or fork breaks I dont care cause ive beat the shiz out of it. It was gonna go in the garbage b4 I did that to it and now it seems to be a good working fork. The spring doesnt seem to bind. It doesnt travel as far as it did b4 with the hevier oil so I dont think the spring will get compressed enough to do any damage. Thanks for the concern but it seems to be working---for now anyways ill let ya know when it breaks and you can say "I told ya so!" My only other option is a dj3 I bought and am sorry I did so. I would ride my stance over that pos any day.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

pavement_hurts said:


> how so? it appears that you are sporting the adam morrison look. adam morrison sports the pubescent-looking fuzz-stache. it was an observation. perhaps you just have a dark upper lip.


....son, you have proven my point. you're retarded. grow up.


----------



## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

todd_freeride said:


> ....son, you have proven my point. you're retarded. grow up.


whatever todd


----------



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

fiddy_ryder said:


> damn that think looks slack in the 1st pic..


yeah, it was rockin' a 26/24 combo in those pics...

btw, I like how the title matches a lot of the feeling being displayed here, namely bitter frustration probably brought on by winter....


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> yeah, it was rockin' a 26/24 combo in those pics....


keep in mind, no headset either. that was a big part of the slackness.


----------



## brian_404 (Jan 28, 2007)

WOW, 20.5 top tube? :eekster: that is small. i just picked up a small dj frame, but the top tube 22... 20.5, i couldn't get my fat a$$ on it without my knees hitting the bars...  sweet looking frame though... :thumbsup:


----------



## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Ugh @ uneven welds.
Too small = time for another frame!


----------



## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

.........


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> keep in mind, no headset either. that was a big part of the slackness.


Actually a headset would make it even slacker.

What was the point of swapping forks?


----------



## I'm Doss (Dec 31, 2006)

alright, maybe I'm stupid, but I've never heard of a bitter. Thats a really small frame, is it a trials frame?

That thing is tiny!


----------



## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm Doss said:


> alright, maybe I'm stupid, but I've never heard of a bitter. Thats a really small frame, is it a trials frame?
> 
> That thing is tiny!


It's made by Gary Fisher


----------



## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> none of my bikes are even close to entry level.


Not to be a troll but uhhhh.....
A couple of schwinns hanging from the ceiling, a "Special Ed", a Mountaincycle Rumble and an Ibex Zone FR in the back.....
They all seem fairly "entry level" to me.


----------



## thebigred67 (Mar 29, 2005)

Looks like he drank the Kool Aide.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

cranberry said:


> .........


........
Nevermind...


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Actually a headset would make it even slacker.
> 
> What was the point of swapping forks?


swapped forks to see how the fork felt, and to check the springs out.

headset would make it less raked.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

cranberry said:


> Not to be a troll but uhhhh.....
> A couple of schwinns hanging from the ceiling, a "Special Ed", a Mountaincycle Rumble and an Ibex Zone FR in the back.....
> They all seem fairly "entry level" to me.


you're a fu*king a$shole man. a MC rumble is an amazing frame. a ibex zone is beffier, stiffer and in most cases I've seen, nicer made than a SC bullet.

okay sure, I'll get "real" bikes. by spending 3X as much, and getting the exact same performance value. the P. series ..... goes for 1100.00 new now with identical frame alloy and geometry.

the schwins aren't mine obviously.

again, *none* of my bikes make it even close to entry level. and anything beyond what my bikes will deliver, then you're looking at thousands of dollars a piece for the same performance.


----------



## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> swapped forks to see how the fork felt, and to check the springs out.
> 
> headset would make it less raked.


No, the headset will make it slacker because it's essentially the same as adding a longer fork.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> No, the headset will make it slacker because it's essentially the same as adding a longer fork.


yea, but the head tube being so short, and the fork having that much room to move around. a headset will make it less slack.


----------



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> yea, but the head tube being so short, and the fork having that much room to move around. a headset will make it less slack.


what? I was going to post something when you put up the first comment about that but didn't think you were serious...

where is your reasoning here coming from? or is it some sort of internal headset that has negative stack height?


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> what? I was going to post something when you put up the first comment about that but didn't think you were serious...
> 
> where is your reasoning here coming from? or is it some sort of internal headset that has negative stack height?


even with a headset raising it, it doesnt rake it out as much as with no headset. I'm not going to waste my time with installing a headset to proove my point.

no headset









simulated headset


----------



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> even with a headset raising it, it doesnt rake it out as much as with no headset. I'm not going to waste my time with installing a headset to proove my point.
> 
> no headset
> 
> ...


I think I see what you're talking about... but your explanation was a bit ambiguous in the first place. I don't even know how to explain it... like without the headset to keep it centered in the inner dia. of the headtube, the steerer is more at an angle touching the back of the top, and the front of the bottom of the headtube, creating a slacker angle... somewhat similar idea behind it as switching the cups around in the adjustable ht of a commencal, etc.


----------



## bitterrider (Sep 21, 2006)

Here is mine with a headset.


----------



## thebigred67 (Mar 29, 2005)

Soo,... Who's the bass player todd?


----------



## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> you're a fu*king a$shole man.


Your right!
Johnny! We have a winner tell him what he has won.............................










todd_freeride said:


> a MC rumble is an amazing frame.


It's a descent frame I'll admit that.


todd_freeride said:


> a ibex zone is....... nicer made than a SC bullet.


Bwahahaahahaha!!! You need to stop huff'n gas. You are obviously high on *something* if you think that.


----------



## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Cranberry and Todd chill out you two, its not a big deal.  Just as a bunch of people get done saying how chill this forum is, this comes up. Does it really matter who has "entry level" bikes? Todd as long as they work for you its ok, don't listen to what other people say (BTW I'm jealous of that Zone its cheap and has nice components). :thumbsup:


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

That logic is bogus.

We call that PLAY. Assuming both scenarios have the steerer centered in the headtube, a headset will add to the height of the front end, thus slacker. Otherwise, it's comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

XSL_WiLL said:


> That logic is bogus.
> 
> We call that PLAY. Assuming both scenarios have the steerer centered in the headtube, a headset will add to the height of the front end, thus slacker. Otherwise, it's comparing apples to oranges.


haha, no doubt. it's all bunk info though... can't change my seat tube angle by using a smaller dia. seatpost... can't run a fork w/out a hs... no reason to compare or even ponder such things, other than the reason to be stubborn and prove a point.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> haha, no doubt. it's all bunk info though... can't change my seat tube angle by using a smaller dia. seatpost... can't run a fork w/out a hs... no reason to compare or even ponder such things, other than the reason to be stubborn and prove a point.


I'm very good at that.

LIES!!!! LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

See my point?


----------



## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> That logic is bogus.
> 
> We call that PLAY. Assuming both scenarios have the steerer centered in the headtube, a headset will add to the height of the front end, thus slacker. Otherwise, it's comparing apples to oranges.


Once again thank you.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

No fair man, I thought I had the most entry level bike.


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

wow, in seeing this many hate responces to a thread like this, makes me very sure that I'm going to quit mtbr forums soon. you guys are serious A$sholes. none of you are worth my time, nor do I give a sh!t as to what you say.


----------



## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> wow, in seeing this many hate responces to a thread like this, makes me very sure that I'm going to quit mtbr forums soon. you guys are serious A$sholes. none of you are worth my time, nor do I give a sh!t as to what you say.


umm....Bitter!

thicker skin man, thicker skin.


----------



## cranberry (Nov 15, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> wow, in seeing this many hate responces to a thread like this, makes me very sure that I'm going to quit mtbr forums soon. you guys are serious A$sholes. none of you are worth my time, nor do I give a sh!t as to what you say.


My post wasn't a hate response. I even started it with, "Not to be a troll". It was an *opinion* and a reflection of *your* attitude toward another board visitor. Then you told another they didnt know what they were talking about when it came to modifying forks when what they said was completely correct. He was just trying to help you with your fork problem.
Calling me an F'n A$shole....and


todd_freeride said:


> you guys are serious A$sholes. none of you are worth my time, nor do I give a sh!t as to what you say.


 *that* is a hate response


----------



## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

cranberry said:


> My post wasn't a hate response. I even started it with, "Not to be a troll". It was an *opinion* and a reflection of *your* attitude toward another board visitor. Then you told another they didnt know what they were talking about when it came to modifying forks when what they said was completely correct. He was just trying to help you with your fork problem.
> Calling me an F'n A$shole....and *that* is a hate response


not even close.


----------

