# 1989 VRC All Mountain Bike........



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

*1989 VRC All Mountain Bike........ (finished)*

Just in from the paint place.

I liked this bike the moment I saw it. Not for it's looks, it's one ugly duck, not for it's fame, I think it's a virtual unknown.... but for its uniqueness, geometry, history and its custom handcrafted American frame. I had to give up on two other projects to devote time, effort and funds to do this project the way I wanted to. It's just now all falling into place.

I had a few technical issues regarding parts and the chain line when it came to this frame that necessitated buying things from across the world. There were a few hurdles including 3 trips to various pro mechanics and finally 3 hours with a 2 pound hammer, a punch and a saw to literally inch out two absurdly seized bb cups. This despite 5 days of soaking with Kroil.

As it is, havent fully decided what direction to take, but am inclined to turn this into a rigid all mountain VRC bike. That means shortish stem, longish bars, fat low pressure tires, not so period but more so for fit and function, to take advantage of its exceptionally period slack 69 degree head angle. With a proper period suspension fork, this sled will slacken to about 68 degrees, if I go that route  Either way, its perfect for where and how I usually ride.


















I know, I know, white isn't exactly period, but the color scheme is black and white as a tribute to the Endeavor shuttle, which recently flew over my house. And in the event that I do go with another color, the powder coat white will be a great base.

The decision to have the bike powder coated was a hard one. It had large patches of surface rusting which I wanted to stop. The bike was well used but with no dings and dents. The rust was from paint that was almost totally chipped off on the front & rear drop out areas and the bottom bracket section. When I decided to make it into a keeper, I thought it best to stop the rust dead in its tracks. The frame was treated with an acid soak that also is supposed to address external and internal rusting and was also blasted with abrasives. Very happy with the work from the PC people. Even the steerer looks new. I noticed something odd about the tubes on this bike. Some tubes were naturally chrome looking after the paint was stripped. Something I've never seen before on a bike.

For now, new decals are on their way and am going to start working on the various parts this weekend and order quite a few bits. Probably another week to go through the stuff, make sure everything is in tip top shape and have other stuff come in the mail.

My fingers are crossed hoping I can stick a set of 2.25 Schwalbe Nobby Nics on the bike. With the modern rubber and 25 psi, this baby will be plush and sticky up (and DOWN) in thar hills  More than anything else, I'm really excited to feel the handling of the unique geometry on Socal single track, something the designer knew quite well and, I think, purposely designed this bike for.

More pics of bike details...

Hand formed seat stay bridge (?) and side shot of the airfoil top tube









Hand cut rear sliding drop outs and hg40 megarange freewheel, that 34t will see lots of use









D form seat tube with intricate weld joints, the rear brake cable goes through the D tube and wraps around the seat tube with a cable bracket. 









Builder's custom front drop outs cut from plate steel









If you care for anymore info, there is a scan of an MB action article right here on MTBR.

UPDATE:


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## prefixie (Apr 11, 2012)

I like the color.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Lots of design features of a yeti. Not some 1 off ultimate preproduction is it?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

AKamp said:


> Lots of design features of a yeti. Not some 1 off ultimate preproduction is it?


It's this bike....










.....hat tip to the MTBR VRC scan guy


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Very cool :thumbsup:

I might have that issue if you want me to scan the "First Test" feature.


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## LARRYJO (Aug 7, 2007)

Was that one for sale in Mission?

Here is this, scroll down a little 
http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/misc-articles-1990-1991-a-70740.html


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Oh please don't put a period-correct suspension fork on that. It looks great with the original fork, why add ugly and poor performance to it.
Those dropouts are screaming for a SS setup. Do e-stay frames flex more than conventional rear triangles? That could nix a SS setup.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

trailville said:


> Those dropouts are screaming for a SS setup. Do e-stay frames flex more than conventional rear triangles? That could nix a SS setup.


Most are stout enough, also opens the door to a belt drive.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

very cool..lovin these E-Stays


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

Very cool! :thumbsup:


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## TheMachinist (Feb 24, 2007)

I remember drooling over that bike when I saw it in MBA.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Very interesting frame. I like the white, and can't wait to see it built up!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Getting there. Trying a 50mm Ringle Stem that I had. Still waiting on an 80mm stem which is on the way. The 50 doesnt look too good, but it sure looks like an AM bike with it  Gonna do some more fittings before I string up the whole bike. Thats just how I roll. The Flite saddle isnt going to work either if I'm going to ride in gnar


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## TheMachinist (Feb 24, 2007)

Left side drivetrain? :thumbsup:


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## prefixie (Apr 11, 2012)

icantdrive65 said:


> Left side drivetrain? :thumbsup:


I think the designer was British


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

ready for some trail tests  Kept the short stem to keep the axle well forward of the bars. Used a carbon riser to keep my teeth fillings in place and to keep the bar high for descending. Fat Nobby Nics for a little more cushioning. BANZAI!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Needs a quill stem

And those Kooka levers are the opposite of "all mountain"


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Shayne said:


> Needs a quill stem
> 
> And those Kooka levers are the opposite of "all mountain"


Ive got the original Curtlo stem for the bike put away. I need the 60mm stem thats on there too keep my weight at a rearward bias for descending. Will be testing how well this thing rolls over rocks at speed. When I get the stem length nailed down, will be buying a proper quill stem in the right length. Also have the original Dia Compe 183 levers. But I never used these Kookas, so BANZAI!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

bing! said:


> so BANZAI!


What does that mean? I never watched Dora or anything like that. Is that good or bad?


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## iamthewalrus (May 20, 2009)

Robert Savage owned a bike shop in Orange County, CA back in the late 80s early 90s. Good guy, but was prone to crashing his brains out. His front display window held his (many) broken helmets. Some of them bloodied.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

girlonbike said:


> What does that mean? I never watched Dora or anything like that. Is that good or bad?


I don't think you were ever in Dora's target demographic when she got on TV 

Traditionally, "banzai" (roughly translated as "hurrah") is an expression of enthusiasm. Direct translation is "10000 years!"

And yes, I know your playin.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

bing! said:


> Ive got the original Curtlo stem for the bike put away. I need the 60mm stem thats on there too keep my weight at a rearward bias for descending. Will be testing how well this thing rolls over rocks at speed. When I get the stem length nailed down, will be buying a proper quill stem in the right length. Also have the original Dia Compe 183 levers. But I never used these Kookas, so BANZAI!


Dont let your descending skills (or lack thereof) dictate the needs for a really short stem. Vintage bike geometry is funny, I'd bet that bike would feel great with a 120-140mm stem going up and down, it'll just feel different than your other bikes. Get your bars the width you like and adjust the stem length accordingly, old MTBs tend to have shorter top tubes and longer stems compared to modern trail bikes.

Short stems and rigid bikes dont normally go so well together, you're going to need to weight that front end on corners since you dont have a suspension fork acting to keep the wheel planted.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Nice frame and fork, lots of cool details.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

GTscoob said:


> Dont let your descending skills (or lack thereof) dictate the needs for a really short stem. Vintage bike geometry is funny, I'd bet that bike would feel great with a 120-140mm stem going up and down, it'll just feel different than your other bikes. Get your bars the width you like and adjust the stem length accordingly, old MTBs tend to have shorter top tubes and longer stems compared to modern trail bikes.
> 
> Short stems and rigid bikes dont normally go so well together, you're going to need to weight that front end on corners since you dont have a suspension fork acting to keep the wheel planted.


Actually, I find that there is not much mystery in vintage bike geometry. They are designed to track well and have good traction climbing. Thats why they have long stems and shortish (to todays standard) top tubes.

One of the reasons I liked this bike is its geometry. The 22.5 inch TT and 17 inch ST allows me to fit a short stem and convert it for a medium rider. It's actually a large bike, but fitted as I have, it has the same basic tube lengths as my daily AM rider. The 69 degree HA is slack enough to do some gnar plowing. If I put on a MAG 20, it will slacken out to 68  I don't think there is any other vintage bike from 1990 that has that.

As for my descending skills, you are welcome to ride with me


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## dirtworksglobal (Jul 16, 2006)

*Savage Predator*

I bought this Savage Predator from Rob Savage at his store in 1989! It was a pink and purple fade paint job when I got it (you took what you could get, they didn't make allot of them) I figured I would put some of the images I took this weekend up here for everyone to see. At some point I will take it apart and send it out for a proper fade paint job and new decals. Still fun to ride!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

What happened to the pink to purple fade? That must have been hot looking.


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## dirtworksglobal (Jul 16, 2006)

I gave the bike to a friend of mine and he wanted it black, so he had it powder coated black. The pink and purple fade was really crazy! When I get it redone I may go back to that..


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

So that is the legendary Savage Predator! Wow. I just put the Terminator back in 1989 garb. Here is her latest and last iteration. With the og stem and bars, I think she is stunningly beautiful. BTW, this girl isn't overly heavy. I'd say nothing over 25-27 pounds. Howse yours?


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## dirtworksglobal (Jul 16, 2006)

This is the legendary Savage Predator! Wow. Glad you enjoyed seeing it! Your Terminator looks great back in 1989 period correct garb. Mine has not been weighed since 1989, but is fairly light and rides great! It would be cool to get some pictures of them together after I restore mine, I may build a replica fork for mine to top it off.


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## 805MTB (Jul 4, 2010)

wow Bing, that's quite a project...you are welcome to weight it up using my bike scale. I'm off for the Summer


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## WE Warrior (Oct 28, 2009)

I have wondered if there were any more of these around. I too purchased one of the original 5 and still have mine. Robert had his brother build these frames from the same Chrome Moly that his company (TMAG) built the Nissan GTP Race cars. These bikes have some of the cleanest tight welds I have ever witnessed and the attention to detail is incredible. As a matter of fact, the front forks are tapered to offer some flex or compliance. They were originally designed to be DH bikes hence the 68deg head angle.

Mine was originally metallic purple with teal and fluorescent green splatter


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

How dare you not post a picture!


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Yeah, what he said.


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## WE Warrior (Oct 28, 2009)

I have been trying. Evidently not smart enough.


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## huelse (Jan 30, 2004)




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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Please post a pic. I've only seen mine really, plus that Predator up there.


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## WE Warrior (Oct 28, 2009)

*My 1989 Savage Terminator*

I had this bike Powder Coated Metalic Green back in 1993. Those are original Cook Bros cranks, Ritchey stem (of course with Robert's Gecko and skull decals), XT Seat Post, 90s XTR brakes, and the sweetest Mavic headset that came on the bike.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Cool bike.

Seat stay brace ala Mongoose BMX....sweet.




Steve


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Very nice. The white one I restorer had a similar green metallic paint that turned purple metallic at certain angles.


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