# Fox Float DPX2 Factory vs. Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate



## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

OK, hopefully simple question.

Of these 2 shocks, which is going to provide the best performance for a rider around 260lbs.

Basic midwest singletrack...lots of roots/rocks, short punchy climbs, some flow...No huge drops or jumps for me, every thing is under 24"

These shocks are basically the same price, and I've managed to find both in stock, so I'm trying to sort which way to go.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I like my DPX2 and weigh about 260ish. I did have to push it to the max 350psi to get my 14mm sag correct but haven’t seen any negative issues. 

I did jump at an X2 when one was available and have really liked it. 

Can’t speak to the RS though. 


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

What bike are these going on?


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

TooTallUK said:


> What bike are these going on?


2020 Trek Fuel EX 8 (size L)


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

Coming from a heavier rider, who used to be heavier, neither in stock form. Quite frankly, you are on the wrong part of the bell curve these shocks were tuned for. Talk to a custom shock tuner—I love avalanche—and see what shock architecture they can most easily work with, my guess is the RS, but honestly, you’re best off getting a coil shock they can re-shim. Custom tuning isn’t as expensive as it sounds and you have no idea what you’re missing.


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

Shartist said:


> Coming from a heavier rider, who used to be heavier, neither in stock form. Quite frankly, you are on the wrong part of the bell curve these shocks were tuned for. Talk to a custom shock tuner-I love avalanche-and see what shock architecture they can most easily work with, my guess is the RS, but honestly, you're best off getting a coil shock they can re-shim. Custom tuning isn't as expensive as it sounds and you have no idea what you're missing.


Yeah, in light of the really low replies in this thread (which surprised me, I assumed there were more than 3-4 heavy riders, riding full sus bikes, but I guess not :skep.

I have shot an email out to Push & Avalanche, we'll see what they can come up with for a solution for me.

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

No problem! My guess for the low response number is that the essence of this question gets posted a lot here and regardless of which air shocks the clyde poster is debating amongst, the answer is generally the same: go coil with a custom damper tune. 

Let us know what your hear back and what you decide on


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

Just heard back from Jared @ Push Industries...they no longer service these shocks...He referred me over to Fluid Focus...Sending email now.


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

One thing to consider is that even if someone has a custom tuning solution for an air shock, you will be riding it at a high pressure that will result in shorter service intervals and make you more prone to blowing out seals. Apples to apples the coil is going to be more robust and remove potential additional wear/ failure points from the equation. Just food for thought.


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

Shartist said:


> One thing to consider is that even if someone has a custom tuning solution for an air shock, you will be riding it at a high pressure that will result in shorter service intervals and make you more prone to blowing out seals. Apples to apples the coil is going to be more robust and remove potential additional wear/ failure points from the equation. Just food for thought.


Yeah. I'm definitely seeing the advantage with a coil (and even more so if you get it tuned)...Unfortunately stock levels for a 210x55 are pretty dismal at the moment...(would love to tune a Bomber CR) and to make matters worse, my 2020 Fuel EX frame leaves very little room to put a coil...my guess is that certain springs will get dangerously close to the seat tube...


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Just go with the DPX2. It will be fine. Hell even if you have to push the PSI a little over 350 you’ll be ok. There is always a factor of safety built in. 

Like I said, I’m 260ish and ran a DPX2 on my Ripmo with success. 


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

ttengineer said:


> Just go with the DPX2. It will be fine. Hell even if you have to push the PSI a little over 350 you'll be ok. There is always a factor of safety built in.
> 
> Like I said, I'm 260ish and ran a DPX2 on my Ripmo with success.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Successfully making something work potentially at the cost of performance, service life, and overall experience versus taking the time to get something that is optimal for you and your bike are very different things-the former hardly seems like the optimal way to spend your hard earned $$ and leisure time...

TT, have you ever ridden on a shock tuned to your body metrics, bike, and riding style?


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

Thanks for the advice guys.

It's always a tough call trying to buy something without the ability to first ride it...

And...As if I wasn't already asking a lot....I'm in the process of losing weight (currently down nearly 20 pounds!)...I'm on my way to hopefully somewhere in the 210-215 range, so this shock needs to grow (or shrink) with me too...I have ZERO interest in dropping another $600-700 in a year or so on yet another shock.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

I should have an Avalanche tuned 210 x 55 Bomber shock on my bike within a month or so. I'm more than happy to measure it all so you can get a better idea whether it will clear your bike.


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

TooTallUK said:


> I should have an Avalanche tuned 210 x 55 Bomber shock on my bike within a month or so. I'm more than happy to measure it all so you can get a better idea whether it will clear your bike.


That would be fantastic!!

Any chance you'd be willing to share your total investment cost? 

Shock (I know is $299)
Spring
Tune
Anything else?

Thanks!


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Another $400 on that for the spring and tuning supplied by Avalanche.

They do some analysis on the bike and the shock and you and give you some information like:

_We have been offering the coil BomberCR shock. This coil shock with our tuning and mods provides the suppleness you are looking for and the larger tapered bumper system resists bottoming with out the midstroke ramp of the air shock

It will need a bit more ramp up than a coil alone can provide because the linkage leverage does not provide as much progression typically needed for coil shocks, we have modified our tapered bumper system to fit. We use our 1.50 inch id springs as well to allow the bumper system to fit and to provide more clearance with the shock body. It also come a with a friction reducing spring collar.

The advantage of the tapered bumper system is to allow the coil spring and damping to be as soft as possible on a progressive linkage and to provide more ramp up for less than progressive ending leverages.

So it is still progressive enough for a coil, it just needs a little help in the last half of the stroke. Without this the coil would have to be a bit stiffer and this would affect the small bump performance too much. A progressive spring would ramp up too fast in the midstroke and prevent bigger square edged bump performance.

Fox Van Rc and Bomber CR Speed sensitive Damper SSD mods_


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## BassistBiker (Jun 29, 2018)

Thanks for the info!


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

I’m on a RS super deluxe select+, no issues on my transition sentinel. I weigh about 240 ready to go. Haven’t bottomed it out yet, and I run it at about 25% sag.

I’ve heard getting a high enough spring weight on a coil shock for guys our weight can be a challenge, something to think about 


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

TooTallUK said:


> Another $400 on that for the spring and tuning supplied by Avalanche.
> 
> They do some analysis on the bike and the shock and you and give you some information like:
> 
> ...


I put an Avy woodie (Craig said had I gone with the tuned bomber CR, I'd only be losing a little performance) on my DH bike and it was nothing short of a game changer (I posted my review here: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/initial-thoughts-transformative-rear-shock-1112121.html )-So much so, that I ditched the grip2 on my fox40 and swapped in Craig's hybrid coil damper for a full hybrid air coil fork. Simply amazing.

I wouldn't worry about it growing with you, I had my shock and fork setup for a 220lb geared up me, I'm now down to 195 fully geared up wt and it grows with you as your ability to ride faster and harder does, plus you get some adjustment and a handy "for dummy's" tuning sheet. I've been turned into an Avy "fanboy," but only because the performance is just multiple cuts above any of the stock stuff coming out of Fox, Rockshox, etc...


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

socalrider77 said:


> I've heard getting a high enough spring weight on a coil shock for guys our weight can be a challenge, something to think about


Avalanche are sourcing the spring for me. I'm either a 650 or 700lb spring, which is big, but they are out there. Their calculations add about 20lbs to the final load because of my height, with makes complete sense when they explained it. I'd never thought of my 'long levers' putting my mass further away and having a greater impact on the shock load.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Big fan of the DPX2 for trail riding. I ride mine at 365psi without issue. I did have dirtlabs add some high speed rebound but was cheap tacking it on to a full service. Ime as a heavier aggressive rider I prefer LESS air volume vs more which I believe the DPX2 is over the RS. I've had a couple Avalanche tunes over the years, personally I do not care for his shock tunes for trail riding. One trick pony in a nut shell. 

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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Shartist said:


> Successfully making something work potentially at the cost of performance, service life, and overall experience versus taking the time to get something that is optimal for you and your bike are very different things-the former hardly seems like the optimal way to spend your hard earned $$ and leisure time...
> 
> TT, have you ever ridden on a shock tuned to your body metrics, bike, and riding style?


I haven't. To be honest I don't think for an enthusiast like myself would notice a difference.

Besides, I rode the DPX2 for 2 years and never had an issue running it at 360psi.

Like I said, there is a factor of safety and 350psi is the max Fox is willing to state to perform to its standards. Running slightly higher psi will not magically deteriorate seals or increase service intervals.

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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

TooTallUK said:


> Avalanche are sourcing the spring for me. I'm either a 650 or 700lb spring, which is big, but they are out there. Their calculations add about 20lbs to the final load because of my height, with makes complete sense when they explained it. I'd never thought of my 'long levers' putting my mass further away and having a greater impact on the shock load.


How tall are you/how much do you weigh? I'm 6'7 240 and figured I'd need a 700lb spring

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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

...


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

socalrider77 said:


> How tall are you/how much do you weigh? I'm 6'7 240 and figured I'd need a 700lb spring


I'm 6'7" and 250, riding nothing that has more than a 2' drop to it, way more trail and XC than anything more gnarly. Gravity has never been too friendly for me.


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## Shartist (Aug 15, 2018)

ttengineer said:


> I haven't. To be honest I don't think for an enthusiast like myself would notice a difference.
> 
> Besides, I rode the DPX2 for 2 years and never had an issue running it at 360psi.
> 
> ...


It isn't magic, it's force, friction, and tolerances-engineering...which I actually happen to know a thing or two about. As an enthusiast who has never tried anything custom, how can you comment on whether you'd notice or not? It's completely out of your realm of experience.

TT, If one of your friends asked you for a really good recipe, and your other friend who ate nothing but cat food and turnips all of his life told the recipe requester all he needed was cat food and turnips, what would you say? TT, I don't judge you for loving cat food and turnips, but I also won't be asking you to compare it to a good meal you've never had either. I've had both, and I'll stick with the halibut, please


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

ttengineer said:


> Running slightly higher psi will not magically deteriorate seals or increase service intervals.


Thing is, it will. Seals under more pressure will be faster to deteriorate. Pressure spikes at the higher end of their design spec will be harder on a seal. Oil being pushed harder and hotter than it should be will deteriorate quicker needing more frequent changes. If you run most anything at the top end of what it is designed for, it will need more maintenance.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Big fan of the DPX2 for trail riding. I ride mine at 365psi without issue. I did have dirtlabs add some high speed rebound but was cheap tacking it on to a full service. Ime as a heavier aggressive rider I prefer LESS air volume vs more which I believe the DPX2 is over the RS. I've had a couple Avalanche tunes over the years, personally I do not care for his shock tunes for trail riding. One trick pony in a nut shell.


What height and weight are you?


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Shartist said:


> It isn't magic, it's force, friction, and tolerances-engineering...which I actually happen to know a thing or two about. As an enthusiast who has never tried anything custom, how can you comment on whether you'd notice or not? It's completely out of your realm of experience.
> 
> TT, If one of your friends asked you for a really good recipe, and your other friend who ate nothing but cat food and turnips all of his life told the recipe requester all he needed was cat food and turnips, what would you say? TT, I don't judge you for loving cat food and turnips, but I also won't be asking you to compare it to a good meal you've never had either. I've had both, and I'll stick with the halibut, please


As a licensed Engineer, I know a thing or 2 about it myself. Granted my degree is in Civil and not Mechanical.

When a product is designed it's value engineered. Meaning they try to design the product to fit the middle of a bell curve of users while also considering cost and tolerance.

If Fox says the DPX2 is good to 350 psi, that means, most likely, that the difference in durability from 100 psi to 350psi is negligible at best. Measurable, sure, but I'd be surprised if it was greater than a 10% difference.

The internal parts are all guaranteed to 350psi, with service intervals of 1 year or x number of hours of riding. Can things wear out before? Sure. But on average across a large number of samples that's what they found. Can you push that service interval or max psi? Yes.

As far as custom tuning, I don't think your example really fits. The valving on these shocks isn't ****. It's decent, but not the best.

I think a better example would be automotive shocks. Let's take the Ford Raptor for example. It has fox racing shocks. They work well. But push it to the limits and you see the flaws. Throw a pair of custom Kings on the truck, and you may be hard pressed to find the limit. But drive it on the street, and the King's will feel like **** because they aren't tuned for the street.

Shock tuning doesn't just magically make the bike feel better, it has to be tuned to specific conditions. That's why people like the factory stuff because it's so adjustable.

I don't push my bike to its limits. I also don't feel like the stock DPX2 tune suffers from any short comings for my particular riding style. I hit medium drops, rocky rooty trail, and flow trail. I also feel I fall right in the middle of the bell curve for how I ride.

It's important to understand that a shock controls the spring. The spring controls the weight. A DPX2 is both a shock and spring.

Having said all this, I think custom tuning is a great thing, and I'm sure I could have the shock tuned to better suit me, but I don't think for my style a custom tune would offer much improvement over the stock tune.

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