# Need help with my MCE knuckle duster...



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi all

My little light originally started in the DIY dinotte thread but has strayed away from the general theme so now it gets its own thread.

The plan was initially to run 4x r2's (2x spot and 2x 35 degree) but Mr Trout has sewn the seeds of MCE :madmax:

How would you folks go about driving this and what would you do for optics?

Should I run this 2 x MCE for spill and 2x R2's for long throw? Or should I just wait for the ledil Boom reflectors and fill the whole thing with MCEs and a Hipflex?

Anyhow... some pics to help visualize the plans...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:devil::lol: :cornut: :aureola: :idea: :thumbsup:    :yesnod: :ihih: :devil:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*Optics....*

i have a space of 20.5 mm for the optics to fit into.










I could possibly sand out the end cap a little if i can't get anything to fit. So as far as i can see, I have two optics choices for MCE.

1.Carlco 20mm
2. Ledil Boom reflector

Has anyone got their hands on either the data-sheet or a physical copy of the Carlco 20 mm lens's?

The version of the data-sheet from the Carlco website gives detailed drawings of the dimensions for the 26.5 mm optics but completely misses the 20 mm dimensions.

Do you think it would be possible to remove enough material from the Boom reflectors to be able to jam them in there?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

ocean,
can't answer the optic quesion...but just wanted to say how much this creation rocks :thumbsup:


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## astasoftride (Aug 26, 2008)

I see you have those R/C motor heat sinks mounted. Do you know what diameter they were designed to fit and what is the diameter of your lights. I was going to try something similar and I was courious to know the size. 

Looking good by the way!!


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## wkumtrider (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks like Number 5's head from Short Circut. 

Cool light!


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

That looks mental....

Great work salty, can't wait to see the beamshots from that one. Saying that, I'll probably see the actual light off it when you fire it up!!!!


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Good idea*



astasoftride said:


> I see you have those R/C motor heat sinks mounted. Do you know what diameter they were designed to fit and what is the diameter of your lights. I was going to try something similar and I was courious to know the size.
> 
> Looking good by the way!!


Those look like heatsinks for a #280 RC motor and are about $3.50 on eBay. I'm interested in how well they work.


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## astasoftride (Aug 26, 2008)

notaknob, Salty states that they are in fact the 280 heat sinks in the DIY Dinotte thread. I wanted to know what diameter they are designed for to see if they might work for what I may try.


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## astasoftride (Aug 26, 2008)

That's Johny 5 by the way  He is alive !!!


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Light looks good.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Salty I have some of the Carclo 20 mm optics 
what do you want to know

hight in holder is 15.5 mm
diameter in holder is 23.25 mm

what about these from polymer optics
https://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/Cree MC-E Optics Range.pdf

in holders will they fit


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

yetibetty said:


> ocean, can't answer the optic quesion...but just wanted to say how much this creation rocks :thumbsup:


Awww shucks... Thanks betty  It was you that started this idea however so it should be me thanking you :thumbsup:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

astasoftride said:


> I wanted to know what diameter they are designed for to see if they might work for what I may try.


Sorry, packaging and spec sheet don't have any specific dimensions included. I googled "280 rc motor diameter" to get a feel for the size which is generally listed as 24mm.

There is also a 540 size and there may well be others.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Salty I have some of the Carclo 20 mm optics
> what do you want to know


what is the actual diameter of the optic... is it actually 20mm or is it slightly more/less?



> diameter in holder is 23.25 mm


Do you think I could dremel most of the optic holder away leaving a paper thin surround so that i can still use the holder? Like I did with the Cree optics? ie












> what about these from polymer optics
> https://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/Cree MC-E Optics Range.pdf
> 
> in holders will they fit


Awesome... thanks trout :thumbsup: . I didn't realize they were MCE compatible.
Have you used them during your optic testing at all?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> what is the actual diameter of the optic... is it actually 20mm or is it slightly more/less?
> 
> Awesome... thanks trout :thumbsup: . I didn't realize they were MCE compatible.
> Have you used them during your optic testing at all?


No I have not used the polymer optics only just looked at them and realised 
that 7 would fit in the maglite head.:idea

The carclo 20 mm optic is 19.5 diameter and and approx 10 mm high


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow I absolutely love it.

What a great collection of premade parts (I assume).

Now for those of us that haven't seen any of this before what are all the parts and where did you get them from? or atleast a link back to the other thread if it is all discussed there.

Heatsink is sorted already, what a great find :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Have to say, next to this, my lattest build is another contender for the fuglies


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

emu26 said:


> Wow I absolutely love it.
> 
> What a great collection of premade parts (I assume).
> 
> ...


Hi Emu,

Thanks for the feedback

Here is the start of the light build although there were some design ideas from the mkI and MkII (linked in my sig).

A quick parts list as things stand at the moment:

Dx light bodies (anodizing removed with oven cleaner)

The light bodies are put together using the "yettibetty method"

The "kuckle duster" is made from 3mm Al strip from the local hardware shop. Plenty of hacksaw and dremel work was done to get the desired shape.

The holes were cut using a 1 inch hole saw.

Internal heat sinks are made from 1 inch Al round cut to 10mm lengths.

External heatsinks from here. Part # 3RACMHS002SI (NFI how to get a direct link)

bar mounts

Currently looking like it will be run of 2 x buckpucks housed in an external case.

Optics are under consideration.... will advise when i make my mind up.


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## NEstinkyrider (Sep 10, 2007)

Salty- Great looking build.... how snug do the 1' alu heatsinks fit into the flashlight casings? does the sink contact the casing around the entire circumference?

thanks.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

NEstinkyrider said:


> Salty- Great looking build.... how snug do the 1' alu heatsinks fit into the flashlight casings? does the sink contact the casing around the entire circumference?
> 
> thanks.


Thanks stinky,

The internal sinks are pretty tight... had to tap them in with a hammer and looking from one end they seem to contact as much surface area as possible for something that is hand filed.

(edit) A picture really is worth a thousand words so here is a 4 thousand word essay


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


>


Could you put any photo of the front of the optics?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Righto, 

I have just ordered the parts from cutter so hopefully they will arrive soon since I am in Aus. 

I have ordered both the Ledil Boom reflectors (both SS and M) and the Calco 20mm (frosted tight)

2x MCE's (M bin)
2X R2's
2x 1000ma buckpucks
and a partridge in a pear tree


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Good stuff Salty 
This is a beam shot I cant wait to see I hope it works out for you .

I suppose you can alter the angle also of the heads in relation to each other
with carefull tweaking of the mount plate to put each beam just where you want it


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> :thumbsup: Good stuff Salty
> This is a beam shot I cant wait to see I hope it works out for you .
> 
> I suppose you can alter the angle also of the heads in relation to each other
> with carefull tweaking of the mount plate to put each beam just where you want it


As soon as i see the ledil booms i will set up a test rig and get some sock on a stick beam shots for you... I assume mine will arrive before yours given the relative postage distances.

The mount plate is pretty flexible so fine tuning should be pretty hassle free.

If this boom spot is as good as we hope... i have some ideas for a twin MCE helmet mount.

All i will have to do then is rob a battery shop to power all these things.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

msxtr said:


> Could you put any photo of the front of the optics?
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


Sure thing.... sorry it took a while to get around to it. (unmodified Dx optic holder on the right for reference)


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Salty, your going to have to go out and buy lots and lots of socks for this one.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*serendipity??*

So I have the day off and no MCE's or optics in sight...aaaaaggggghhhhh!!

I was thinking of jamming some q5's I have laying around into it just to get it running but the Vf x4 will be too much for my battery and a buckpuck.....

however, it did come up with a tidy way to get the wires in and out of the housing. Since I won't be needing to use the original clicky switches as the driver will be remotely mounted, i have binned the switch altogether.

The off-cut circle washer thingos left over after using the hole saw to make the duster are the perfect size to fit into the tail caps with a wiring grommet... happy days










next up is to sort out the mounting bracket (heads off to hardware shop.....)


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> The off-cut circle washer thingos left over after using the hole saw to make the duster are the perfect size to fit into the tail caps with a wiring grommet... happy days


Just like a bought one, only better :thumbsup:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*mounting bracket sorted*

The old mounting bracket was far to flimsy so I have sorted that out today while I wait for MCE's.

The bracket allows me to tweak the angles a little to get everything mounting nice and square so that the light doesn't sit at a jaunty angle across the bars. I also doesn't add too much weight to the overall build (ghetto weigh in to follow)



















You can' quite tell in the photos but the mount is in contact with the lower stem bolt so if i need to tilt the light any further forward, i am Sh!t out of luck.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Looking gooderer every day Salty .

it is agonising waiting for stuff to hit the mailbox .

Have you got your power sorted be nice to see what you are doing at that end also .


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> it is agonising waiting for stuff to hit the mailbox


Yeah, I am lost at the moment Until i get my hands on the booms and see the results, I don't know what my next build will be :yawn: Do i continue to follow the MCE path or wait for the XPE r2 kit I am assuming the Booms are holding up my order at the moment, so it might be a little wait yet.



> Have you got your power sorted be nice to see what you are doing at that end also


.

Powering it may turn out to be my achilles heel.

1 have 1x 14.4v 4400 ma and 2 x 14.4v 2200 ma. I am banking heavily on your Vf measurements from your run time test that it will pretty much stay in regulation until battery cut out. Since it will be at 500ma rather than 700, the Vf should be even lower.
With the Aussie dollar in the toilet and no cheap local li-ion pack suppliers, I don't really want to order another pack

Have ordered 2 x buckpuck. Will parallel the two MCE's to give 500ma each and then run the r2's off a second puck.

I have just been playing with switches and resistors. I will probably use the same 6 pin 3 position switch for the dimming of both lights. Then simply have an inline switch on Vin as a non-parasitic on/off also.

I would have mocked up the driver housing except i can't find one of the torch end caps. I KNOW i ordered 14 torhces and therefore there were 14 caps... i can account for 13 but do you think i can find the last one?:madmax:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> would have mocked up the driver housing except i can't find one of the torch end caps. I KNOW i ordered 14 torhces and therefore there were 14 caps... i can account for 13 but do you think i can find the last one?:madmax:


fridge suck these things always end up under the fridge


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> fridge suck these things always end up under the fridge


nope.. wasn't under the fridge :madmax:

So far the light is doing OK weight wise. This is without LED's wiring and drivers so it will probably come out pretty close to 250g


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Ocean I'm sure Troutie meant look under you're fridge, not the Wollies one in the fresh food isle 

Tis looking very good mate


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## Hack On Wheels (Apr 29, 2006)

ocean breathes salty said:


> nope.. wasn't under the fridge :madmax:
> 
> So far the light is doing OK weight wise. This is without LED's wiring and drivers so it will probably come out pretty close to 250g


Without a doubt, the best scale shot ever for a bit of biking kit!


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Love the guerilla weigh-in. It's just as hilarious the 2nd time


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

+2 on that. Outstanding!!!


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Woot!!!! 

:band:

The parts just arrived, so I will finish building it up tomorrow then get some beam shots!!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Woot!!!!
> 
> :band:
> 
> The parts just arrived, so I will finish building it up tomorrow then get some beam shots!!!!


Great Looking forward to seeing this one lit up .

Just to recap .

you are doing 2 MCE with Booms 
and 2 R2 for throw what optics .

MCE will get 500ma each 
R2 the full 1000ma

I am betting this will kick the **** out of My triple


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing it from this side of the world. I have had good success with the polymer optics 186 for a nice wide flood on MCE's. No joy on a spot yet though.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

zen bicycle said:


> Looking forward to seeing it from this side of the world. I have had good success with the polymer optics 186 for a nice wide flood on MCE's. No joy on a spot yet though.


Dissapointed to hear that. I was kind of hoping the 186 was reasonably tight. It does look smooth though.

Good luck OBS:thumbsup:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> you are doing 2 MCE with Booms
> and 2 R2 for throw what optics .


These for the R2 (DX sku 1920)

I have M and SS booms so i will play around a bit


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

What flashlights are u using for the bodies? can u pls link me?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

baltik said:


> What flashlights are u using for the bodies? can u pls link me?


sure thing

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3206


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*Let There Be Light!!*

Muhahahahahaha!!!! :ihih: :ciappa: :cornut: :yesnod: :devil: :band:

All systems are go!

First impressions against a wall are very favourable. The R2's give a really pronounced hot spot in the middle and the SS booms give a wide floody beam to fill the rest in.

One problem i have struck is the diameter of the reflector of about 19-20mm and the diameter of the aperture in the end cap of about 17mm. This means there is lots of light hitting the lip of the end cap and not exiting in the beam.... I am going to have to get a step bit to open up the endcaps a little.

Other than that... hurry up darkness so that I can get some beam shots of this badboy! Here come the socks......


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Easier, but not custom*



ocean breathes salty said:


> One problem i have struck is the diameter of the reflector of about 19-20mm and the diameter of the aperture in the end cap of about 17mm. This means there is lots of light hitting the lip of the end cap and not exiting in the beam.... I am going to have to get a step bit to open up the endcaps a little.


You've had to glue one cap on right? Why not just leave it off? I've been doing mine with out the end cap and just putting silicone on the end to seal it.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

notaknob said:


> You've had to glue one cap on right? Why not just leave it off? I've been doing mine with out the end cap and just putting silicone on the end to seal it.


Hehe, Drink Home Brew.. nice :thumbsup:

What do you do at the other end where the reflector meets the LED?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*MCE fight at the OK coral*

You sound just a bit happy there Salty and I am sure you will release those imprisoned lumens somehow .

Well I have the Darkness now and you cant have it untill I have finished with it


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> You sound just a bit happy there Salty and I am sure you will release those imprisoned lumens somehow .
> 
> Well I have the Darkness now and you cant have it untill I have finished with it


step bit is purchased and i am about to drill them out.... I can't get this close and not do it properly...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dammit I hit post before I was ready .

This should be a good one when I let you have the Darkness back . 

someone do the lumen count for me here .

saltys 2 M bin MCE @ 500ma + 2 R2s @ 1000ma
against
My 3 K bin MCE @ 600ma 


Come on where are the pics from the installation


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Here is a wall shot to get some idea of the pattern. I am certainly seeing a hotspot in real life however I don't know how well it is showing up in the photo...

For all you beam angle calculating wizards out there... the light is 500mm from the wall and the crosshairs on the wall are 150mm square.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup:Cool . these type of shots give far more info than the manufacturers data sheets seem to .

Nise one salty.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Come on where are the pics from the installation


I haven't got one with it on the bike but here is the nearly finished product...










The driver housing sits along the stem and is held in place by the strap for the battery bag. It has some soft rubber backing on it to allow it to mould to the shape of the stem a little better.

I was hoping to get it smaller but by the time you jam 2 schmuck pucks and 2 switches in there and all the associated wiring.. space runs out pretty quickly (scar is a genius).

Here is the battery bag. I had to sew the strap onto it to hold everything in the right spot.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice I like the MCE s they look like eyes .

Here is my tip for the deans .

leave off the shrink from the terminals










I use some shrink tube round it and fill with epoxy ,on later ones I have shrunk it to a shape that is easier to hold .

A bit fiddly but it makes nice connectors


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> I use some shrink tube round it and fill with epoxy ,on later ones I have shrunk it to a shape that is easier to hold .


Nice tip... will experiment with that in the not too distant future


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

As promised, here are some beam shots (socks at 10m intervals as per usual).

I was in a bit of a hurry so didn't get many and was having difficulty getting them still as there was a stiff southerly breeze blowing (the socks wouldn't stay standing either  ).

My exposure was all over the shop so I have PP'd a little to get them to approximate what I was actually seeing.



















I am still waiting for the sealant to dry and still need to cover the reflectors, so didn't get a chance to ride with it yet (besides, it was 35 c today and i couldn't be bothered). It looks promising so far....


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well Nice one Salty :yesnod:
That is so smooth You must be pretty happy with the result 

I know we are a fickle bunch but what about some shots of just the mce and just the R2s 
That would be a nice comparison . 

I am now thinking of using 2 MCE and 2 R2 s with polymer optics in a mag head for a similar setup .

How is the heat in the mces working


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Well Nice one Salty :yesnod:
> That is so smooth You must be pretty happy with the result
> 
> I know we are a fickle bunch but what about some shots of just the mce and just the R2s
> ...


I took heaps of photos but didn't review them after taking them 
I don't think i had something locked on the tripod correctly and they were so blurry as to be un-useable (alhtough it now occurs to me that i probably left the IS on while on the tripod which might account for it). I will repeat again more tonight..... it gives me something to do now the light is finished.. 

(I also had a rider coming at the camera go through the middle of some of them.... you should of seen his helmet light dancing around as he was looking all the socks as he rode past :lol

The heat seams to be OK. It was a little breezy last night and I left the light running on high while i walked out to collect all the socks and it was only slightly warm to touch. It heats up very quickly when you turn it on but doesn't get too hot to touch... i.e little thermal mass but ok surface area.

My mini drill press wasn't quite accurate enough to get the step bit to accurately enlarge the hole in the endcap. I have tightened it up since and will have a go again. If it can figure out how to get those last few imprissoned lumens out I will be happy.

Next up is a matching triple helmet light. I have some q5's that i will make it out of while I wait for the cutter xpe r2 triple kit to eventuate.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

*Hunting for the "silent lumens"*

The end caps are definitely robbing this light (Well durrrr salty, Just look at them, they have to be.......)

I butchered one of them to see what would happen if I widened the aperture a little. I need to refine the process a little...

Here are some wall shots with constant camera settings to show the difference in the light output. By eye, it is actually more significant than the camera shows.

Unmodified beam pattern









Modified beam pattern


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> The end caps are definitely robbing this light (Well durrrr salty, Just look at them, they have to be.......)


:thumbsup: Well that was a mod that needed to happen looking at the pics .

Did you have the light on when the other rider was approaching :yikes:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

another shot to give some idea of the beam shape. There appears to be a doughnut hole in the middle of one of the R2's so i will need to move the optic closer to the LED.

I did a quick heat test in still air and on Hi, it was hot (but didn't burn) to touch after about 3-4 minutes. The heat sinks were warm but still cooler than the light body so that thermal pathway may need some work.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey great shot that Salty .

It looks likd the space shuttle taking off ..

At last we have the Photon drive Mwuhahha

Looks like you have them toed in slightly too 

I am off to have a look at a shot like that


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Salty, first of all, well done on a mighty fine build! :thumbsup: 

I am inspired to build a version of your "dual Mk II" whilst I wait for a replacement driver for my "Trimoeba" triple 3/4" achesalot helmet light (I smoked it but connecting the battery in reverse whilst testing :madman: )

I have 2 spare R2's and some DX sku3256 drivers which were destined for the bar light but housingless till I saw your build.

My question is o-rings, originally there was talk they were needed around the tube heads against the mounting plate but seem to have dropped them on the 'knuckle duster' I think. Is this correct that they are not really needed with the 3mm Al plate?

Also I am undecided whether I will use the Cree lens or the DX equivalent, have you found you needed an o-ring in front of the lens for either of these options?

If o-rings are needed anywhere, what size were they?

Cheers


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

G_Mozz said:


> Salty, first of all, well done on a mighty fine build! :thumbsup:
> 
> I am inspired to build a version of your "dual Mk II" whilst I wait for a replacement driver for my "Trimoeba" triple 3/4" achesalot helmet light (I smoked it but connecting the battery in reverse whilst testing :madman: )


Bummer, bad feeling that. I just had to trouble shoot the MKI tonight. It worked on last nights ride but didn't work tonight... The problem is in the car charger cable according to the multimeter.



> My question is o-rings, originally there was talk they were needed around the tube heads against the mounting plate but seem to have dropped them on the 'knuckle duster' I think. Is this correct that they are not really needed with the 3mm Al plate?


On my original prototype the fit of the torch body into the Al plate was pretty sloppy so i added the o-rings to take up some of the slop. Once i used a hole saw with the drill press and got a nice neat hole, it was such a tight fit that i didn't need the o-rings any longer.

I haven't worried about o-rings in front of the optics either. Some sealant smeared in place holds everything nicely and is water proof enough for Australia in the middle of a drought.

I used sealant to hold the end caps in place at the back of the light aswell.



> Also I am undecided whether I will use the Cree lens or the DX equivalent, have you found you needed an o-ring in front of the lens for either of these options?


I had both and actually found i liked the DX equivalents slightly better when held side by side against a wall. The fact that they are cheaper is an extra bonus.

They both fit so use whatever is at hand



> If o-rings are needed anywhere, what size were they?


None were needed anywhere. Sealant worked well enough for me.

As a side line, I got to loan the light out tonight on a ride with a friend who was on his first night ride. It worked really nicely and it was good to have a spare light up my sleeve.

Good luck with the build and make sure you post some pics :thumbsup: (in case you can't tell, I like pretty pictures  )


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Inspired by the trout, I did a little more testing tonight..

Here is the test rig:










and here is the video

I lost the video after editing it the first time so the second edit is a little rough as I was starting to lose interest.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Salty, that is fantastic..the spread of the MCEs mixed with the spot of the R2s is just about perfect.

Great video but no socks.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Bloody hell Salty , STOP RAISING THE BAR .:nono:

That is ace nice work it really shows your Duster to its full pontential.

And I like how the R2s provide the punch where the MCE beam lacks .

I will say it again that is a great light you have created with a superb beam.

is it as good in real life when riding now you have evaluated it .

I bet it is big grins when you are out riding .

I will have to go and watch it again now.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> is it as good in real life when riding now you have evaluated it .
> 
> .


Thanks Trout and Betty,

I can't believe I didn't think of socks!! :incazzato: 

In real life it is certainly brighter than it appears on the video.

I am pretty happy with the beam pattern aswell. The beam looks kind of strange with just the 2 MCE's, it is almost like someone is holding an old fashioned lantern out in front of the bike. The light is everywhere and quite uniform in intensity, it just doesn't quite throw far enough. It is a great pattern when you are traveling slow but as soon as you get a bit of speed up, you start to outrun it. It's not really captured on the video very faithfully.

The r2's in the middle definitely fill it out a lot but they do tend to be a little too bright in the mid range so your eyes adapt to the mid ground leaving the outer edges looking dark again. I tend to find the beam is just about perfect when I have the MCE's on high and the R2's on low. Then the hotspot is not as pronounced and there is a more even light gradient. Different optics on the R2 might improve things aswell.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Now that would have been something if you had been riding past a sock on a stick every 20 metres for the whole video . :arf: come on Salty attention to detail :arf:

What optics are the R2s 

I am thinking of nicking the basis of your light and adding a bit to it in a future build .

looking at the vid can you raise the R2 s beam up a tad .
that would remove the hotspot a bit .

Have you an idea of runtime yet.


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## pjc223 (Jun 9, 2008)

Salty, you are the MAN!!!!

Magic video, though I was a bit worried we were going off the side of the road early on, it is amasing how real it feels.

Beam shots are now SO old fashioned.

Cheers

Pete


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## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

Brilliant video .. looks great in the high def version.

You must be stoked at how it has turned out. That is a well tidy setup. Did you post a pic of your final mounting configuration?

I like the use of the gun rail thingoes for the camera mount. I am particularly interested as it seems like you use some fairly easily accessible Al plate. I am thinking this could be a pretty easily adapted mount for single lights as well.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

pjc223 said:


> Salty, you are the MAN!!!!
> 
> Magic video, though I was a bit worried we were going off the side of the road early on, it is amasing how real it feels.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that was a bit of kookery wasn't it 

I was uphill on a standing start riding it as a single speed to try to keep speed constant while trying to clip in. Unfortunately my wobble was captured and broadcast to the world :madman:


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

That's definitely a monster there Salty. I loved the video. Damn, am I gonna have to start making videos too now that you guys are raising the standard from just beamshots?!?!?


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

From post #50.... let me check if i've got this right:

*Salty Duster* = 2 x M bin MC-E's @ 500mA + 2 R2 bin XR-E's @ 1000mA
So assuming MC-E @ 500mA = 135% brightness & XR-E @ 1000mA = 220% brightness
1.35 x 430Lm = 580Lm x 2 = 1160Lm (for the MC-E's)
2.2 x 114Lm = 250Lm x 2 = 500Lm (for the XR-E's)
*Gving a sum total of 1660Lm's (electrical)*

*Troutie Triple* = 3 x K bin MC-E's @ 600mA
So assuming MC-E @ 600mA = 155%
1.55 x 370Lm = 573.5Lm x 3 = 1720.5Lm's (electrical)
*Gving a sum total of 1720.5Lm's (electrical)*

Now taking it further... what about bang for watt!!!
Assuming a MC-E Vf is 3.2V and a XR-E Vf is 3.3V then the electrical power is:

*Salty Duster*
MC-E's 3.2 x 4 = 12.8V (total Vf) x 0.5A = 6.4W per MC-E = 12.8W total
XR-E's 3.3 x 2 = 6.6V (sum Vf) x 1A = 6.6W total
Giving a sum total of 19.4W (consumed by the leds)
or a Lm's per Watt of 1660/19.4 = *85.57 Lm's/W*

*Troutie Triple*
MC-E's 3.2 x 4 = 12.8V (total Vf) x 0.6A = 7.68W per MC-E = 23.04 total
Giving a sum total of 23.04W (consumed by the leds)
or a Lm's per Watt of 1720.5/23.04 = *74.67 Lm's/W*

So whilst Troutie wins out on the total lumen count, Salty does it with more efficiency.

_Disclaimer: I have disregarded lens losses and driver efficiency for simplicity._

Phew... well that's my lunch break gone.... back to work now....


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

G_Mozz said:


> From post #50.... let me check if i've got this right:
> 
> *Salty Duster* = 2 x M bin MC-E's @ 500mA + 2 R2 bin XR-E's @ 1000mA
> So assuming MC-E @ 500mA = 135% brightness & XR-E @ 1000mA = 220% brightness
> ...


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Do you mind if I hum?*



G_Mozz said:


> From post #50.... let me check if i've got this right:


It's a funny thing about budgets.

No matter how hard you try, there's always a spreadsheet error that makes it all an exercise in futility.

Achesalot is using a 3023 Buckpuck @ 1 amp / 2 MC-E in parallel == 500mA per MC-E


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

opps... I've edited that.

Apologies Troutie!


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Good catch...*



ocean breathes salty said:


> Great maths, I love it :thumbsup:.... but did you mean trout light? Wasn't the newest Achesalot a twin MCE?
> 
> At least your lunch break was productive though


Everyone's a critic... You caught the other piece of the calculation there.

Nice work on the KD. I'd like to replicate it but I've dropped enough dough on lights this season. I can't justify the ROI to the CFO for a dual MC-E now (only 6 more days until the days get longer) but now I know that someone out there has done the math.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Ok so Achesalot doesn't now feel left out:

Achesalot Double = 2 x M bin MC-E's @ 500mA 
So assuming MC-E @ 500mA = 135% brightness
1.35 x 430Lm = 580Lm x 2 = 1160Lm 
Gving a sum total of 1160Lm's (electrical)

Now... the bang for watt!!!
Assuming a MC-E Vf is 3.2V then the electrical power is:

Achesalot Double
MC-E's 3.2 x 4 = 12.8V (total Vf) x 0.5A = 6.4W per MC-E = 12.8W total
Giving a sum total of 12.8W (consumed by the leds)
or a Lm's per Watt of 1160/12.8 = 90.625 Lm's/W

So whilst it's not as bright... it's the most efficient.


Now where was I... that's right...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Great that G_mozz

now had I read the packets from cutters the troutie-triple would have been
3 M mce @ 430 lm




Troutie Triple = 3 x M bin MC-E's @ 600mA
So assuming MC-E @ 600mA = 155%
1.55 x 430Lm = 666.5Lm x 3 = 1999.5Lm's (electrical)
Gving a sum total of 1999.5Lm's (electrical


Troutie Triple
MC-E's 3.2 x 4 = 12.8V (total Vf) x 0.6A = 7.68W per MC-E = 23.04 total
Giving a sum total of 23.04W (consumed by the leds)
or a Lm's per Watt of 1999.5/23.04 = 86.78 Lm's/W


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OOps forgot to say 

Now if someone were to pay for an airflight halfway round the world I could come and do a head to head shootout with saltys duster .:ihih:


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Troutie Triple = 3 x M bin MC-E's @ 600mA
> So assuming MC-E @ 600mA = 155%
> 1.55 x 430Lm = 573.5Lm x 3 = 1999.5Lm's (electrical)
> Gving a sum total of 1999.5Lm's (electrical


Ok my turn to pick fault, I think that should read...
... 1.55 x 430Lm = *666.5Lm *x 3 = 1999.5Lm's (electrical)
:thumbsup:


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Salty, just got to watch the video... very impressive. I had ordered the bits to add a 2 x R2 to my bar but having now watched that video I am fighting the urge to add at least 1 MC-E!!!

I agree with Troutie, can you aim the R2's up a little (a bit of fancy bending on the knuckle duster plate). It looks like that would bring them up more to the level that your helmet light seemed to at.

Truly inspiring, my hat goes off to you.

Cheers


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

G_Mozz said:


> Salty, just got to watch the video... very impressive. I had ordered the bits to add a 2 x R2 to my bar but having now watched that video I am fighting the urge to add at least 1 MC-E!!!
> 
> I agree with Troutie, can you aim the R2's up a little (a bit of fancy bending on the knuckle duster plate). It looks like that would bring them up more to the level that your helmet light seemed to at.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mozz

I had been thinking the same thing about the r2 position. I will have a crack at tweaking the plate tomorrow and see what results.

@ Trout... NFI re: runtimes at the moment. It is daylight savings here at the moment so it it doesn't get dark until approx 8:30pm so I haven't really pushed the boundaries with it yet.

I did get 1.5 hours out of it the other night (mostly lo beam with Hi on descents) with a 14.4v 4800mah but i forgot to measure what the battery voltage was when i got home and I re-charged it. :madman:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Have you an idea of runtime yet.


I tired to find out tonight just for you Mr Trout but now realize i need a bigger motor. I lasted 2.5 hours with the MCE's on Hi (500ma) and the R2's on low (?????500ma????) the whole time. The battery (14.8V 4400mA) was showing 16.8V hot off the charger before i went out and was still showing 14.6V when i got back. So there was still a bit of life left in it. God only knows what I would be able to get out of it if I ran it on low most of the time with selective use of hi beam.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup:
Brilliant that Salty thanks . Would I be correct in thinking you are happy with the Duster light .

Ledpro calculator works out you should get 3hrs 7 mins at those settings so not too shabby on the power consumption .

That is about our night rides 2.5 hrs with .5 hr reserve for breakdown .

So what is next on the agenda how are you going to better that one .


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## bbgobie (Apr 20, 2006)

If your looking at efficiency, is whoever's light is under driven.

Supply say 150ma to each die in an MC-E and you'll get more lumen / watt.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bbgobie said:


> If your looking at efficiency, is whoever's light is under driven.
> 
> Supply say 150ma to each die in an MC-E and you'll get more lumen / watt.


It is not just about efficiency , If we ran saltys light at 150ma per die . then poor salty would most likely die before the battery . and be underwhelmed by the lumens available

It is about power and efficiency and when to be powerfull and when to be efficient to get a balance in runtime for a given battery .

You can do the maths , but imho there is no substitute for a real time test .


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> So what is next on the agenda how are you going to better that one .


I have to sort out my miners lamp.... my current helmet light is a behemoth and gives me a sore neck. Going by Gilestugan's pics, i can get a tight beam with an MCE and so have a lightweight but very bright helmet light.

After that, I will be getting a shimano dyno hub. I will probably run something like 3/4 R2's (possibly XPE) or maybe an MCE or two and also keep running the duster on low. I don't really need anymore lumens but i just thought it would be fun to play around with.

I should be working on all of that through Jan so who knows what i will be working on in Feb


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Hey Salty,

I am about to embark on the task of filing down the 1" Al bar stock to make heatsink plugs. 

I know this was a painful but necessary task... any tips to guide me on my way quickly oh great wise one.

Cheers


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

I have found by using a reflective shroud on my light i can point the light higher (for better throw) and still have enough light close to the wheel for close in stuff.
My light is crap compared to yours though mate looks amazing!
Tommo.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

G_Mozz said:


> Hey Salty,
> 
> I am about to embark on the task of filing down the 1" Al bar stock to make heatsink plugs.
> 
> ...


Find the roughest bastard file you can get your hands on and start there! It probably took about 10-15 mins per slug of fiddling (I was being paranoid and trying to keep them as round as possible). Take a little off - check size - take a little more off - check size... I think how hard this is really depends on what alloy your bar stock is. I dont' know what mine is but i am pretty sure you could use it to cut diamonds 

Good luck


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## DrP (Mar 9, 2008)

What switch is that you're using (visible in the top pic)?
Is it a momentary clicky, or a click on, click off?

Cheers, 

DrP


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## TheBigYin (Sep 29, 2008)

G_Mozz said:


> ... any tips to guide me on my way quickly...


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

DrP said:


> What switch is that you're using (visible in the top pic)?
> Is it a momentary clicky, or a click on, click off?
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


One of these (edit: I accidentally linked a mom switch) per buckpuck. Not waterproof but i am a bit of a fair weather rider 

Wired it up like this:










image courtesy of citizen kane.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

BigYin, well if you don't have one of those, just upend your belt sander in the vice like this...

...be warned though, when the missus isn't looking steal the oven mitts cause damm that Al rod gets hot when it meets the rapidly spinning 40 grit!!!!


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

G_Mozz said:


> BigYin, well if you don't have one of those, just upend your belt sander in the vice like this...
> 
> ...be warned though, when the missus isn't looking steal the oven mitts cause damm that Al rod gets hot when it meets the rapidly spinning 40 grit!!!!


I love it :thumbsup:  ... the oven mits don't stay clean very long. Pretty soon everything ends up covered in a fine silver haze. It is helpful to have a pet or child that you can blame it on


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

MMM belt sander next best tool after hacksaw and drill press saves getting tennis elbow 
with all the filing


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Inspired by the trout, I did a little more testing tonight..
> ....


Great work Salty, that vid's astonishing.


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## Adam_waugh (Oct 11, 2008)

ocean breathes salty said:


> i have a space of 20.5 mm for the optics to fit into.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing information.May be helpful those information as task concern.


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