# What to do with a 02/03 Rock Shox Psylo SL/Race?



## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

I posted a bit earlier on this forum about my first mountain bike project, where I restored this old specialized M4 with 8 speed XTR:









I'm now trying to decide what I'm going to do with the fork. It appears to be an 02/03 Psylo Rock Shox SL Race model, which uses the Pure damper.

The good: Both U-turn and rebound adjusment are functioning.

The bad: I rigged the remote lockout knob up to a friction shifter, and the compression/lockout adjustment doesn't work. In addition, I am not getting full travel out of the fork (I get a few cm when the U-turn is at 80 mm travel, plus the additional differential travel I get from adjusting the U-turn to 120 mm), so I'm short about 50-60 cm of travel.

I was hoping you folks could help me decide the best fate for this fork. As I see it, here are my options:

1. Keep the fork and get it serviced (new oil+seals) before riding it. I'm guessing this is an $80+ expense. My worry is it would be a lost investment if the fork is beyond servicing.

2. Ride it as-is for now with ~50-60 mm of travel, and put money into a new fork when needed, rather than trying servicing the Psylo.

What do you folks think? Information that would help me decide:

- Is there a way my LBS can check the condition before servicing at lower cost? Or is the work to tear things down and examine + put back together already approaching the amount of work required to do the service?

- What level/price of new fork would approximately match the performance of a well-functioning Psylo SL? I don't want to put in $100 of service, when I could spend double that to get something similar/better new. On the other hand, if a similar new fork is going to cost $300+, I would gladly spend $100 to get a season or two of use from the Psylo.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Thing is thought its not really working as it should. That is constantly going to play on your mind also. I know i wouldnt be able to live with that but that may just be me. If you are going to eventually put money into a new fork when needed you may as well do it now and improve your ride through a well working fork.

Say over the next year you keep this fork on and you get 6 months of decent riding out of it. Decent but not as good as it could be, then you have to get a new fork anyway. the rest of the year you get 6 months. May as well get a working fork and get the full good 12 months.

I would just go pick something like this up for 130 bucks.

New SRAM RockShox XC28 100mm 26" Fork 1 1 8" Disc Canti | eBay

job done.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Do you think the XC28 will be on par with the serviced Psylo, performance-wise (assuming that the Psylo can in fact be serviced)?


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

I mean, the xc28 is a lower end fork today but back in 2002 when your psylo came out it would have been seen as a really good fork, and i do believe on par with the psylo definitely. Both are coil, lockout and recoil adjust. Not too mention if in the future you had a common issue with the xc28, there would be more availability with parts and easier to get fixed.
I think your psylo has had its day. dont regret ploughing money into it when you could have got a brand new one that you know works and will do for some time. You will prob get a warranty with the xc28 so months down the line you can use that. if your psylo goes wrong again, you just have to fork (no punn intended) out more money.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks Brockwan, that's definitely good to know. If by servicing the Psylo I am (in best case scenario) ending up with an out-of-warranty XC28 level fork, I might as well put that money toward the new XC28. In reality, I can probably afford something a bit better, and may ride the Psylo this winter until I find a great deal on something.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

good thinking. theres good deals now with new stock coming out for 2014 and there will be through December into January.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Use it until you can afford a new fork, had one back in the day and beat the heck out of it.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Even though it's old, I'd still say it's better than an XC28TK. Not a whole lot better, but enough that'd I'd rather pay to have it rebuilt than buy a XC28. XC32 is a different story though. Personally, I'd rebuild it myself, just for the experience. Worst case, you have to buy a new fork, which it sounds like you're going to do anyway. If needed, you can find the seal/bushing kits on e-bay and grab some cheap fork oil from a motorcycle shop. The limited travel sounds like it might have too much oil in it. Rockshox lists that as a reason for limited travel in almost all of their newer owner's manuals.

SRAM still has the service manuals on their website, and it doesn't look that terribly hard, just a litle messy.
Service Resources - RockShox | SRAM


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Hey watts888, you also make a good point. Also, beyond performance the Psylo Race is at least a full pound lighter than the XC28 according to information I can find online. 

Also true that I could try rebuilding myself. I got a bit intimidated by the procedure for bleeding the Pure damper, and in general I'm not sure if I have the right tools to do the job but I'll take a closer look at those manuals.

If I plan to try servicing the Psylo myself, can I ride it in the mean time or is there a chance of further damaging it?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Most every shop I've dealt with will take a look for free and give you an estimate.
If there's one around you with an experienced suspension mechanic, this might be something that he/she's seen before. See what they say.

Depending what it needs, I'm almost sure I have one of those in my garage somewhere, though I don't believe it's the SL model. Sing out if you end up needing some random part for it and I can take a peak.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks slaphead, I'll definitely check in if I need a part.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Thing everyone keeps overseeing is that if you pay for the psylo to be serviced how long will that last before it goes wrong again? If you look long term you are only prolonging what is inevitable. The xc28 was jus an example there's a wealth of forks to choose from.

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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Brockwan, I agree with your economic philosophy, and if I do service the fork I will likely do it myself and count it as a learning experience. 

Part of my hesitation is that this is my first mountain bike and I'd like to get some more miles on it before any expensive upgrades. The bike was intended as a cost-concious gateway into the sport; something that I can keep for the long run if it works out, or sell once I have a better idea of what I like. So, if all the Psylo needs is some new oil and some seals to keep it going for the next year or two (and I can do it for under $50) this would be preferable to a new fork.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

I was looking for an upgrade to a friend's fork, and saw that ebay has some suntour XCR forks with v-brake studs for $100. (just sort buy-it-now forks by price+shipping and you should find them). They're from Taiway, and may take a couple weeks, but still a decent fork. Hydraulic dampened with 32mm stanchions and remove lockout. Not as good as some forks, but it would probably be an upgrade over a 2002 Psylo. Only bad part, Suntour XCR forks aren't really re-buildable. Once the hydraulic cartridge goes bad, you have to replace the cartridge.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

If you can keep it running for cheap do it and save up for a replacement. You can get a pretty nice fork for well under $300 used.

FWIW, I've found Fox stuff is pretty straightforward to work on at home, and rebuild kits are short $$. Something like this would be a nice upgrade.

Fox Float 100 RLC Fork 100mm Travel Lock Out Rebound Adjust 9mm | eBay

Plenty of other decent deals out there too.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

lyra said:


> Brockwan, I agree with your economic philosophy, and if I do service the fork I will likely do it myself and count it as a learning experience.
> 
> .


I hear you. Just seen people dumping money into things and then regretting they didn't go new in the end. Hope all goes well with your psylo. Keep us updated. 

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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks everyone for all of the really great suggestions so far. I've poured over the RockShox manuals and it looks like I'll need to pick up the following items:

-snap ring pliers (can be had for $4 on Ebay)

-oil syringe (any recs? I'm guessing ~$5-10)

-plastic mallet (would a piece of plywood do?)

-5wt and 15wt fork oil: the combo goes for $8.99 on Ebay

-Dental pick to remove o-rings ($5 Ebay) - necessary?

-Oil soluable grease (any recs?)

I figure I'm looking at $20-30 in tools and oil, plus additional cost if the fork needs new seals and o-rings. Will any Rockshox 30mm seals/o-rings work, or are these things fork specific?


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## eedavis (Oct 13, 2006)

This syringe Hopkins Mfg 10111/6 Mixmizer Injector 2 Cycle Motor Oil Mixing Tool works well, is graduated in cc, and has no rubber piston head that will get damaged by whatever fluid you put through it. The piston is the same material as the barrel and seals by being a bit bigger than the barrel, the elasticity of the barrel allows the piston to move.

I think RWC (Enduro fork seals) sell the same part. No affiliation with either vendor.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Snapring pliers. if you have a local harbor freight or northern tools, go for it. Local hardware stores or Wally mart might have something cheap too in their $2/3/4 dollar bins.

Syringe. I'd check prices on a larger syringe from a pharmacy or a turkey injector. Probably want to get some air-line tubing from an aquarium too.

Mallet. as long as it's not metal, it's fine. Even a tapping a chunk of wood with a metal hammer would work, but a cheap rubber mallet can be bought for about $3-4.

Fork oil. check out a motorcycle shop. Cheaper, no shipping, and you'll have some extra for future rebuilds. I can't find it, but someone on the forum put together a nice comparison chart of the different fork oils. the number's don't mean the same thing between manufacturers.

Dental pic. FYI, if you use this, your o-rings are toast. If the fork feels ok (no leaks and no unusual lateral movement in the fork) you might be able to get away without needed a new kit.

I'd take it apart first, clean it, put in new oil and try it out. If it currently works well across the travel you'e got, probably just has too much oil in the tubes.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

^Priceless advice. Thanks. What would the air-line tubing be for?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I completely agree with the idea of tearing this fork down and trying to find a fix for it yourself. What better opportunity to learn more about servicing forks than to tear apart an old and busted one, and try to repair it? Even if you only get 6mo out of it, the knowledge you've gained from the project is invaluable for future fork servicing.

the airline tubing gives you a little more flexibility with how you hold the syringe and a little more control about the placement of the oil. Just an ease of use thing.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

lyra said:


> Thanks everyone for all of the really great suggestions so far. I've poured over the RockShox manuals and it looks like I'll need to pick up the following items:
> 
> -snap ring pliers (can be had for $4 on Ebay)
> 
> ...


By all means try and service this yourself and this is not meant to scare you off but...

I've rebuilt and modded just about every fork and shock I have ever owned (means I messed up a lot) and will say this is one of the tougher ones because of all the plastic parts. Follow the manual to the "T" because you can really damage some parts if you skip a step.

The Mixmizer eedavis recommends works very well for the bleed, fork oil cheaper at motorcycle shops, can't remember what the grease was for but waterproof wheel bearing grease will work if you on a budget, a block of wood and a framing hammer will sub for a mallet.

The psylo is a 28mm stanchion if my memory is correct. edit; it is listed as 30mm with Enduro seal

A couple of tips; Put a rag over the Mixmizer or you will make it rain and not with champagne. The inner sleeves are SHARP so be careful, I have sliced the shiat out of myself with them. The '02 model used a plastic "rebound head seal" , mine cracked within the first 6 months and kept cracking till they made an aluminum one in '03, if that is cracked it leaks dampener fluid into the lower leg and limits travel till it hydro locks. You probably just have a worn oring here causing your limited travel


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

More great advice. Thanks, Ratt. 

I'm going to finish off the season with the fork as-is, and break her down once it gets too cold out (probably a couple of week ends left). If it's such careful job, probably all the more reason to do it myself. As a general rule I'm much happier breaking something on my own than paying for the LBS to do it for me.  

Once I've got her opened up and know what it needs, I'll decide whether it's worth building back up, and order any parts I need.


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## norcalruckus (May 18, 2005)

You can always use it for a 650b conversion. that Psylo would be a good place to start if you rebuild it.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks to all the great advice I received here, I went ahead and rebuilt the Psylo this weekend. I'm not sure how long the fork will last me, but I learned a lot in the process. The good: lockout now works. The bad: the left stanchion is scratched, and I still don't get full travel.

I will say that the instructions from RS were great. Only issue I ran into was that the lowers were pretty dirty and nearly impossible to clean 100%. The damper tube and uppers were a piece of cake to wipe off. O-rings and seals looked ok to me so I just re-bled the oil in the Pure damper and replaced the oil bath on the coil side of the fork.

Picture attached of scratched stanchion. I didn't feel any rough edges or play in the bushings, but did clean out some grit that seemed to be stuck beneath the upper seal around that area--so hopefully that will stop the scratches from progressing.

After servicing the damper, my lockout works great. However the remote lockout top cap is a bit of a pain to set up. The bolt that holds the cable is stripped, and the spring has seen better days. So I just removed the spring, and now it functions like a knob. Below the top cap are holes for spring loaded ball bearings that could be used with a plastic knob if I can find the parts.

Unfortunately, I think there is a slow leak in the damper. It seemed to lose a drop or two of oil when I was cycling it. Since the range of motion will be less on the bike, maybe it's a non-issue. All the seals looked good, so we'll see how long I can go before the lockout stops functioning again.

Despite servicing, I'm still only getting about 75 cm of travel. I think its unlikely that I added too much oil (I measured exactly 30 cc with a syringe, and even then, some of that oil splashed out as I was pouring it). It's probably just stiffness in the spring (I'm a lightweight, and it's a medium spring).


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

lyra said:


> Despite servicing, I'm still only getting about 75 cm of travel. I think its unlikely that I added too much oil (I measured exactly 30 cc with a syringe, and even then, some of that oil splashed out as I was pouring it). It's probably just stiffness in the spring (I'm a lightweight, and it's a medium spring).


You may well be right - maybe have somebody heavier than you give the front end a few hard squishes see what's up.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

I've been keeping my eye out for deals on new forks (even though I'll probably run the Psylo into the ground first). What do you guys think of this deal for a lightweight air fork? From playing with the U-turn setting on the Psylo, the bike handles best with 80-100mm of travel. Remember, I'm a lightweight.

Manitou R7 MRD Forks 2013 | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Crap. They've had 5+ in stock for a few days, and now they are out of stock. Guess I need to pull the trigger fast on that kind of thing.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Lyra blue sky cycles have a rock shox air for 169 brand spankers. 









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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks for the tip, Brokwan. I thought the Manitou R7 MRD was quite a deal since it's a 3 lb air fork with highly praised damping, so $219 sounded great. The RockShox XC 32 is a 5 lb fork with the TK. I'm not necessarily looking for just any air fork (in fact, the Psylo is working fine for m right now), but would snap up something if I found a great deal.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

I hear ya. The site is defo worth checking out there's a load of forks on sale there. They have the recon for 250 but it's not as light.

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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I know you mentioned this already, but watch the geometry if you go with a new fork. Your bike was likely made for a 63mm fork but if you upgrade to 100mm, you'll be throwing off the geo of the bike. It'll cause slow steering, wonky handling and a "chopper" feel.

If you have to go with 100mm, you can always run a shorter stem to compensate a bit.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

jtmartino said:


> I know you mentioned this already, but watch the geometry if you go with a new fork. Your bike was likely made for a 63mm fork but if you upgrade to 100mm, you'll be throwing off the geo of the bike. It'll cause slow steering, wonky handling and a "chopper" feel.
> 
> If you have to go with 100mm, you can always run a shorter stem to compensate a bit.


Read original post. The fork is running short of what it should at around 60 as it wasn't working properly, it should range from 80-120 when working so a 100 will work just fine.

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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Brockwan said:


> Read original post. The fork is running short of what it should at around 60 as it wasn't working properly, it should range from 80-120 when working so a 100 will work just fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You made the mistake of assuming that that fork is OEM for that frame. Which it very clearly isn't, given that it's a mullet setup. So your implication that a 100 fork would work simply because the Psylo has travel from 80-120 is wrong.

OTOH, I made the mistake of not looking more into the bike and thinking it was older than it is, which is why I said it was "likely" made for 63mm fork. Turns out it's a 2000 model year that came equipped with a Manitou MARS CL which had 80mm travel.

So even though your response was wrong, the general premise that a 100mm fork would work is accurate, assuming it doesn't have an extra long AC.

I'd go with the Manitou R7 MRD from post #27 as it's substantially ligher than the RS XC 32 and would work better for someone lightweight.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Wait what? You said the bike was made for 63mm fork. I was just stating the travel comparison not lengths. I think you have put other conditions into my statement that are clearly wrong. All I meant was that if the fork is compatible which one would assume conditions are the same for both said forks, a 100mm fork will be correct. It won't like you said turn it into a chopper although something wary to be of. What i said however was not wrong.

If I got mixed up somewhere then my bad.

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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

jtmartino, how were you able to look up the bike's year? I wan't able to find an exact match on bikepedia for my frame, and found that the s-works m4 bikes had between 70-100 mm travel forks depending on year. The 80mm travel makes sense, as IMO, the bike handles best (especially climbing) when the Psylo is set at 80 mm. Handling is crap at 120, and still pretty good at 100.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Brockwan said:


> If I got mixed up somewhere then my bad.


It's hard for me to explain online. You concluded that 100mm would work given that the Psylo is 80-120mm. But that is based upon the assumption that the Psylo fit the frame in the first place. How do you know what the frame was made for without doing the research? The Psylo is clearly not the bike's stock fork. The frame very well could have been made for a 63mm fork and you would not have known. People often throw long-travel forks onto short-travel hardtails and wonder why the geometry and steering are off.

I knew the fork wasn't OEM, but my mistake was assuming the OEM fork was 63mm. After researching, I discovered the OEM fork was 80mm as the frame is newer than I thought.

In the end the only thing that matters is that a 100mm fork should work just fine, but an 80mm fork would be better for that frame. I've gone through this process with my race bike in the past - it was a PITA to find a modern 80mm fork with brake bosses. Magura and Fox are the last ones to make a performance fork in 80mm size with brake bosses.



lyra said:


> jtmartino, how were you able to look up the bike's year? I wan't able to find an exact match on bikepedia for my frame, and found that the s-works m4 bikes had between 70-100 mm travel forks depending on year. The 80mm travel makes sense, as IMO, the bike handles best (especially climbing) when the Psylo is set at 80 mm. Handling is crap at 120, and still pretty good at 100.


I looked at the catalog which states that the bike also came in Ano black (and the decals match). Bikepedia is incomplete in that regard.

I'd either go with a used fork or the Manitou R7 MRD. I used to have one - they worked great for XC riding, especially if you're on the lighter side.


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

Thanks, jmartino. That gives me more food for thought. I should really spend a bit more time riding the Psylo at both 80mm and 100mm. A decent XC fork with 80-100 mm of travel will probably fit the bill. I'm really more interested in XC from a fitness perspective (especially nice climbs) than technical trail riding, although I'd like to be able to handle some roots and rocks with confidence!


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

lyra said:


> Thanks, jmartino. That gives me more food for thought. I should really spend a bit more time riding the Psylo at both 80mm and 100mm. A decent XC fork with 80-100 mm of travel will probably fit the bill. I'm really more interested in XC from a fitness perspective (especially nice climbs) than technical trail riding, although I'd like to be able to handle some roots and rocks with confidence!


I'm the same way with my bikes - built for efficient climbing but they need to withstand bumps on the way down. I really like the progression of coil sprung forks...they just feel better to me. But air forks are infinitely more tunable and you don't have to replace parts to accommodate riders of different weights.

I personally don't like the feel of mullet setups as the brake lever feel is usually too different. You can get around this by running Avid BB7 mechs and using the same levers front and rear. I wanted to stick with forks with v-brake bosses so I've tried both Rockshox SID World Cup (ultralight and very stiff) and Magura Durin MD80 SL. The Magura is better-suited for my weight (190lbs+) and has greater lateral stiffness, but it's more expensive and harder to find.

The R7 MRD is a great fork, especially for the price. And it will be tuneable for your weight. Many 100mm XC forks can have their travel reduced (via spacer) to 80mm if necessary but it shouldn't be too big of an issue. The head tube angle on your frame won't change too much assuming the A-C measurement on the new fork isn't too much longer than your current setup.

Looks like a great bike and a great price (from your other thread). Good luck and let us know how it rides!


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## lyra (Oct 21, 2013)

I finally understand the mullet reference! It doesn't bother me too much, probably for lack of anything better to compare it too. I've got Avid BB7s up front and XTR rim on the back. My braking power is where I need it. 

Unfortunately the R7 MRDs @$219 all sold out just hours after I posted here, and before I got any responses. Guess I need to be quicker!


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