# Homemade Sports Drink - Anti-Cramp Elixir



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

Here's the magic ingredient, a potassium chloride & salt mixture:









My recipe, in a 2 quart pitcher:

1 1/2 tsp Morton Lite Salt
1 cup ruby red grapefruit juice
1 healthy squirt lemon concentrate (about 1/4 cup)
1/2 cup sugar
and fill the rest with water

I vary the fruit juices for different flavors.

I also use twice the salt mixture as the original recipe/formula calls for since I've always been prone to severe cramps upon some dehydration, and I weigh 260 lbs.



> *here's the original recipe along with the scientific reasoning from this site: CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS*https://www.cptips.com/hmdesnk.htm
> 
> Gatorade (tm) is formulated to give the following per 8oz serving:
> 
> ...


----------



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

just wanted to add

I've never gotten cramps since using this formula. Two hours of high intensity sweating without it will put me into a very dangerous zone of severe cramping in many muscle groups.

So this stuff works. I take it on every ride.

And I drink it when doing yard work; to me yard work consists of everything from cutting grass to soil cultivation, gardening, landscaping, and tree and limb removal.


----------



## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Thanks for the recipe, nice to try something different.


----------



## Hosway (Jun 6, 2012)

Mmmm i like how you could change the flavor by adding different kinds of fruit juices. I will most definitely try.


----------



## Akmike123 (Jun 4, 2012)

Sounds very tasty.I can't wait to try it.thanks for the recipe


----------



## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

Just wondering, but using fruit juices will raise the carbohydrate levels right? Are you concerned with having too much carb during a ride? Do you adjust the amount of sugar in your mix for different juices?


----------



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

irv_usc said:


> Just wondering, but using fruit juices will raise the carbohydrate levels right? Are you concerned with having too much carb during a ride? Do you adjust the amount of sugar in your mix for different juices?


Sure, it would change them a little. No, I'm not really concerned about carb levels changing with differing fruit juices. That seems insignificant to me; it's not like it's a milk shake or something high-cal like that. I do adjust the sugar to whatever tastes passable to me.

I'm not really a stickler to get a gatorade clone; I mainly just need the salt and potassium.

The reason I chose fruit juice over Kool-ade is because I detest chemical flavorings and dyes and juice is the more natural choice.

Same with sugar; it's natural so I don't worry about it.

Thanks to everyone for the nice replies!


----------



## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I bought some Lite Salt to try out but wasn't sure. I have been cramping on longer rides so the higher potassium level is something I definitely want to try out.

I know some people are sticklers for carb/calorie counts but I guess a slight change in sugar level won't affect the drink that much.


----------



## prepsheriff (May 8, 2012)

Yup, saved this recipe... Thanks!


----------



## thatguypete (Jun 12, 2012)

I just made an account just to say this - Thank you so much for posting, it has helped me so much and will save me a lot of money!!!


----------



## jmctav23 (Oct 16, 2010)

sorry but modern science is still out as to what exactly causes cramps, but most studies show that it is not a lack of electrolytes as this myth has been perpetuated by sports drink companies without any factual basis. Suggested reading:
Joe Friel - Muscle Cramps and Mythology
Joe Friel - Muscle Cramp Theory
and if you want some really in-depth research see here:
The Science of Sport: Search results for cramps

I'm not trying to trash your thread or your drink recipe, I'm glad you've made something you enjoy drinking while exercising and doing yard work, but please don't call it an "anti-cramp elixir" because that's just what gatoraid wants you, and all of us, to believe.


----------



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

jmctav23 said:


> sorry but modern science is still out as to what exactly causes cramps, but most studies show that it is not a lack of electrolytes as this myth has been perpetuated by sports drink companies without any factual basis. Suggested reading:
> Joe Friel - Muscle Cramps and Mythology
> Joe Friel - Muscle Cramp Theory
> and if you want some really in-depth research see here:
> ...


You seem not to have read my posts above. I have LOTS of life experience in dealing with the issue. Salt and potassium works. I don't care what science _says_. The stuff works.


----------



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

thatguypete said:


> I just made an account just to say this - Thank you so much for posting, it has helped me so much and will save me a lot of money!!!


I'm glad it helped. Thanks for posting!


----------



## jmctav23 (Oct 16, 2010)

Hundun said:


> You seem not to have read my posts above. I have LOTS of life experience in dealing with the issue. Salt and potassium works. I don't care what science _says_. The stuff works.


Cool man, glad it works for you, honestly. Just trying to spread some knowledge around about cramps because it is definitely one area where different people react in very different ways. I've only had cramps once and it was decidedly due to me going out in a race at a pace I could not sustain for longer than my fitness allowed. It was my first race and a great learning experience. Looking back now, I'm actually glad the cramps in my calves forced me to stop/slow down because I was probably getting close to heat exhaustion as well as it was the first properly hot day of the year.


----------



## Posterchild66 (May 24, 2012)

Do you think this will muck up a camelbak/hydration pack? I suppose you could keep the sugars down/out and perhaps it would be okay... Looking for home made elixirs for that purpose as I frequently ride in 100 plus temps!


----------



## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

I've had several mixes in my camelbak and they have always washed out without any lingering tastes.


----------



## thatdrewguy (Jul 28, 2009)

What's the difference between regular salt and 'lite' salt? Wouldn't using less of the regular salt be the same as using more of the lite salt?


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

thatdrewguy said:


> What's the difference between regular salt and 'lite' salt? Wouldn't using less of the regular salt be the same as using more of the lite salt?


Ask an Expert: Morton lite salt


----------



## Hundun (Jun 2, 2010)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Ask an Expert: Morton lite salt


nag :thumbsup:


----------



## dadstoy (Feb 18, 2010)

OP,..thx man for putting this up here. I sweat like a mo-fo when I ride and do yard work. Hell,..I literally break into a sweat if the temp is 75f or higher. 
The kinda *****es about having to buy Gatorade every two weeks. But if this stuff can replace what I've sweated out,..and still save us some dinero,..Hell, I'm gonna give it a try. :thumbsup:


----------



## Posterchild66 (May 24, 2012)

Anyone have any ideas on reducing the calories on this? I was thinking reducing sugar and using a substitute. 53 cals/8 ounces means my camelbak 100oz would be a lot more than I want, lol.


----------



## latemp (Jun 21, 2012)

I've tried this same recipe with orange juice, but never tried any other juices. Any ones in particular work good with this receipe? Weither it helps cramps of not, electrolytes are a must and I'm not a big fan of all the high fructose corn syrup drinks out there.


----------



## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

latemp said:


> I've tried this same recipe with orange juice, but never tried any other juices. Any ones in particular work good with this receipe? Weither it helps cramps of not, electrolytes are a must and I'm not a big fan of all the high fructose corn syrup drinks out there.


I made mine with my favorite cranberry juice and skipped the sugar altogether. Used about 2 cups of cranberry for the whole 100 oz bladder so whatever the calories are for that amount.


----------



## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

This seems like a great pre-ride drink since I prefer to keep my camelbak flavor-free. And I love grapefruit juice! Thanks.


----------



## CrazyCanuck1969 (Jul 1, 2012)

I use Himalayan salt with fresh lemon (I use a juicer). The salt is high in nutrients and a fresh lemon is alkalizing to the body. I don't like using commerical fruit juices they contain too much sugar and chemicals, i prefer to juice fruits instead.


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

I started this drink mix about a weeK-ago I was have trouble also with cramping like I have never had before I am almost 52 yrs old and I have never had this kind of trouble but I do now! I went to the DR. and had my blood work and stuf done but he told me everything was good and I was like no #$#$%$# way I know my body and my legs are blowing up on every climb. I was not eating enough and I was not hydrating enough.

So thank-you for posting this Hundun. I do also beleve that we all can be little to alot diferent when it comes to this kind of thing I am a heavy sweater so I am using 1 3/4 Tsp of the light salt 2 1/4 cups of suger some lemon concentrate 2 cuos to 2 1/2 cups of juice I mixed it like yours the first day but I do long miles and on my short milage days I'm running also working and working on the house. I was getting cramps also at night and they are gone on day three of being on this I did a 100 mile road ride and I had to back myself down (and I thought my legs where going to start hurting but they didn't) I have a 24 hour race coming up this weekend. it's working for me.


----------



## skidad (May 23, 2005)

I'm a big sweater and have various cramping issues over the years. I now use these Saltstick Caps with pretty good results. Also either Hammer Nutrition Heed (mixed 1/2 strength) or Poweraid Zero for 2+ hour rides.

The Saltstick Caps have 215mg sodium, 63mg potassium, 22mg calcium, 11mg magnesium per capsule. What's the jury think?

Welcome to SaltStick


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks Skidad,I will give them a try.. I just did the Wausau WI 24 solo and I had to drop-out becuse my ass was to sore to go on, I had fell on lap 2 on lap 4 I had to pit becuse of my little chain ring bolts where coming out so I lost 20min there I stoped to eat and that made that next lap 2 hours but by the 12th hour I had 11 laps and I was feeling that I could go 19 to 21 but now I'm all butt hurt! Oh! well there will be other races.


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

Well I haven't been here on mtbr in a while but last Aug I did the MN24 the solo 24 and I used this mix again but I started to feel sick at about hour 18 and the hole race was go time I was back in 8th place at the start but by night fall I had got up to 4th and stayed there till morring then I was up in 2nd place but feeling like crap they got some coffee in me and it helped keep me awake and then the guys that where in 2nd and 3rd came out after having a brake one of them passed me and I finshed 3rd.

I won"t be using this mix again for racing to compete this hard I going to have to look for something that won't have me feeling sick,I have had good luck with Crborocket, I think I might have started feeling sick becuse it cooled down at night and then I got too much salt.


----------



## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Ton of sugar, have you tried making it with agave nectar or honey rather than processed sugar? Or even cutting it back a bit. 

That much sugar in a serving seems like it would spike your blood sugar and lead to a bad crash after you finish the bottle off.


----------



## Zachua (Jan 21, 2008)

is it supposed to taste a tad salty or did I maybe add too much? (btw i used salt sense as its all the store had) 

I thought I put in exactly what the recipe called for - in fact I'm almost positive I did. I thought the sugar and fruit juice would offset it.


----------



## dirtrider6 (Dec 23, 2009)

I have been using the recipe you posted from Cycle tips for a good many years with the Kolaid flavor, never really thought about using different natural fruit juices for flavor, thanks!:thumbsup:
This stuff definately works, I remember one time years ago we had a fellow rider so dehydrated his lips were turning blue, I gave him my backpack and told him to drink all he wanted, about 15 minutes later he was able to ride out of the woods.


----------



## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

A lot of us automatically think that electrolytes are only important for cramping. What is often overlooked is that sodium is used to activate the "glucose transport mechanism". Once fuel is done breaking down in the stomach, it empties into the small intestine. This is where absorption takes place and the magic happens.

The most important takeaway about absorption is that a mixture of glucose, fructose, sodium and water together maximizes the absorption of each. The small intestine has active pumps for glucose and separate pumps for fructose. *These pumps run on sodium*. This is a big reason you need to consume electrolytes with your fuel.The pumps move glucose, fructose, and sodium from your small intestine into the bloodstream. This creates an imbalance, which is corrected by sucking water molecules into the bloodstream. I want to emphasize that this active pumping process moves more water into your bloodstream than you would absorb if you drank water alone or if your fuel lacked sodium or glucose and fructose. This particular mixture has been shown scientifically to be the most efficient way to get fuel, electrolytes, and water into the body. Other pathways to hydrate like osmosis function at a slower rate.


----------



## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

I have to caution against to much potassium, you can easily get into a state of hyperkalemia, potassium poisoning: it can be fatal. I'd recommend sticking to the ratio that salt stick uses posted above. Use regular salt to bring up the sodium while cutting back on the potassium. Hyperkalemia can cause heart dysrhythmias, a weak or slow pulse and paralysis. 

Seriously, look it up.


----------



## pequin (Jan 24, 2013)

GTscoob said:


> Ton of sugar, have you tried making it with agave nectar or honey rather than processed sugar? Or even cutting it back a bit.
> 
> That much sugar in a serving seems like it would spike your blood sugar and lead to a bad crash after you finish the bottle off.


Agreed. Though cane sugar is better for you than HFCS, something like agave or honey would have a lower glycemic index. Heck, I might even try stevia in it, as I am diabetic, but I'll try something based on the OP. Thanks, Hundun! :thumbsup:


----------



## Bizman (Oct 11, 2010)

Hundun,
Thanks for sharing your recipe. I usualy don't get cramps but like some Gatorade from time to time, especially in hot weather after a long ride. Although, I think Gatorade has got pretty sweet from when it first came out. 

I made an 1 qt batch for testing rather than making a 2 qt batch up and not liking it. Since I like grape Gatorade best I thought I would try 1/2 cup natural concord grape juice for flavor. I squeezed lemon juice from an 1/2 lemon, and used 1/4 cup honey instead of white sugar. 

Since I was making a 1 qt batch I tried using 1/4 tsp salt and 1/4 tsp lite salt as you suggested for lower potassium, it was rather salty (for my likening and my wifes). I never thought Gatorade tasted salty but this was. I may have misunderstood your directions, maybe a misprint? You first said to use .75 tsp of lite salt for 2 liters. I thought it seemed unusual when you said to use a 1/2 tsp each regular and lite saltf or lower potassium. This in my thinking was more (and it was) but went with it?

Anyway, the next batch I used only 1/4 tsp lite salt for 1 quart and it was good that way. So for an 1 qt non salty tasting (for me) sports drink I use:

1/2 cup juice of your choice
Juice squeezed from 1/2 lemon
1/4 cup honey
1/4 tsp lite salt (or 1/8 tsp regular salt 1/8 tsp lite salt for lower potassium)
Fill with fresh water (I use filtered water)
Shake well and chill (I used an Gatorade bottle)

Thanks again for your recipe, it gave me the chance to experiment with and make a natural ingredient, not to sweet sports drink!


----------



## fatoldaggie (Sep 25, 2012)

Whambat said:


> I have to caution against to much potassium, you can easily get into a state of hyperkalemia, potassium poisoning: it can be fatal. I'd recommend sticking to the ratio that salt stick uses posted above. Use regular salt to bring up the sodium while cutting back on the potassium. Hyperkalemia can cause heart dysrhythmias, a weak or slow pulse and paralysis.
> 
> Seriously, look it up.


This needs repeating for people who don't read closely.

*TOO MUCH POTASSIUM CAN KILL YOU*

Hyperkalemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the symptoms of potassium overdose, are very similar to the symptoms of heat exhaustion or cramping... so you might think, hey I just need some more electrolytes.

Reality is, you don't need very much potassium in your diet, and you probably can get by without any at all in your water bottle. Use regular salt as noted above.


----------



## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Interesting discussion. Lo Salt has the sodium-to-potassium (Na:K) ratio reversed compared to SaltStick, although not the same numerically.

Comparing Lo Salt to SaltStick, it looks like you'd need to add regular table salt to Lo Salt to bring up the sodium content into the proper ratio (assuming SaltStick is "proper").

Lo Salt (1/4 tsp):
Na - 170 mg
K - 450 mg

SaltStick Cap (1 for 30-60 minutes):
Na - 215 mg
K - 63 mg

The Na:K ratio in SaltStick is 3.4:1. So adding ~0.5-0.6 tsp table salt (1360 mg Na) to Lo Salt will bring that homebrew mix up to the 3.4:1 ratio. Of course you'd need to consume that exact mix over a much longer period of time to get the same rate as a SaltStick cap (about 7x).

Or am I looking at that too simplistically?


----------



## Gundam168 (Dec 19, 2012)

GTscoob said:


> Ton of sugar, have you tried making it with agave nectar or honey rather than processed sugar? Or even cutting it back a bit.
> 
> That much sugar in a serving seems like it would spike your blood sugar and lead to a bad crash after you finish the bottle off.


Yep. That's my recipe.

3 tbsp wild honey
1/2 tsp of salt
750 ml water

Honey has 2 diff kinds of sugars that feed your muscles at different times. There's the quick acting glucose and the slower acting fructose. This prevents the sugar crash from just ordinary sugar (glucose).

Honey: The Facts - Nutrition - Runner's World

For my potassium requirements, I bring small packages of raisins (100g). Raisins, gram for gram, have more potassium than bananas. They're also high in carbohydrates almost as much as honey.


----------



## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Just a couple of issues with this mix. I'm happy it's working for some of you, but maybe it could work better. For what it's worth, I'm a health coach with a strong focus on nutrition.

The recipe that the OP shared has a carbohydrate concentration of around 6%. In order for your body to fully absorb the water you're drinking, it needs an osmolality (basically the density of solutes in the solution,) lower than that of your blood- in other words, a carbohydrate concentration less than 4.5%. The sodium and sugars help move the water into the small intestine. This process uses SGLT1 transporters that actively transport sodium and glucose across the small intestine. These channels use energy to move 2 sodium ions and one glucose molecule into the body. As this happens, 210 molecules of water also move across.

I prefer honey for a number of reasons, but one of the main ones is what Gundam168 brought up- the combination of glucose and fructose is pretty ideal. I also use sea salt because of the sodium/potassium ratio and the presence of trace minerals. The citric acid in the grapefruit juice (or the lime juice I prefer,) has also been shown to help speed absorption of water.

Here's a recipe that I use:

1 1/2 Tablespoon of organic, local honey
1 1/2-3 Tablespoons fresh-squeezed lime juice (to taste)
1/4 Teaspoon of good quality, unprocessed sea salt (not table salt or kosher salt!)
24 oz. filtered water

Dissolve the honey in a small amount of hot water, add remaining ingredients, stir well.
I like to scale up and make a pitcher of it so that I can just fill water bottles for rides. 
This recipe gives a roughly 3-4% carbohydrate solution, which is about the maximum for absorption, The sea salt has the full complement of electrolytes, and the honey has glucose, which speeds water absorption in the intestines.

If you're really bored sometime, or if you're just a big nerd, here's a little light reading.

Gisolfi, C. V., Summers, R. W., Schedl, H. P., & Bleiler, T. L. (1992). Intestinal water absorption from select carbohydrate solutions in humans. J Appl Physiol, 73(5), 2142-2150.

Gisolfi, C. V., Summers, R. W., Lambert, G. P., & Xia, T. (1998). Effect of beverage osmolality on intestinal fluid absorption during exercise. J Appl Physiol, 85(5), 1941-1948.

Gisolfi, C. V., Lambert, G. P., & Summers, R. W. (2001). Intestinal fluid absorption during exercise: role of sport drink osmolality and [Na+]. Med Sci Sports Exerc, 33(6), 907-915.

Grootjans, J., Thuijls, G., Verdam, F., Derikx, J. P., Lenaerts, K., & Buurman, W. A. (2010). Non-invasive assessment of barrier integrity and function of the human gut. World J Gastrointest Surg, 2(3), 61-69.

Hall, D. M., Buettner, G. R., Oberley, L. W., Xu, L., Matthes, R. D., & Gisolfi, C. V. (2001). Mechanisms of circulatory and intestinal barrier dysfunction during whole body hyperthermia. Am J Physiol Heart Circ Physiol, 280(2), H509-21.

Henkin, S. D., Sehl, P. L., & Meyer, F. (2010). Sweat rate and electrolyte concentration in swimmers, runners, and nonathletes. Int J Sports Physiol Perform, 5(3), 359-366.

Hoorn, E. J., & Zietse, R. (2008). Hyponatremia revisited: translating physiology to practice. Nephron Physiol, 108(3), p46-59.

Jeukendrup, A. E., & Moseley, L. (2010). Multiple transportable carbohydrates enhance gastric emptying and fluid delivery. Scand J Med Sci Sports, 20(1), 112-121.

Lambert, G. P., Chang, R. T., Xia, T., Summers, R. W., & Gisolfi, C. V. (1997). Absorption from different intestinal segments during exercise. J Appl Physiol, 83(1), 204-212.

Lien, Y. H., & Shapiro, J. I. (2007). Hyponatremia: clinical diagnosis and management. Am J Med, 120(8), 653-658.

Noakes, T. D., Goodwin, N., Rayner, B. L., Branken, T., & Taylor, R. K. (1985). Water intoxication: a possible complication during endurance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc, 17(3), 370-375.

Noakes, T. D. (2007). Drinking guidelines for exercise: what evidence is there that athletes should drink "as much as tolerable", "to replace the weight lost during exercise" or "ad libitum"? J Sports Sci, 25(7), 781-796.

Wright, E. M., & Loo, D. D. (2000). Coupling between Na+, sugar, and water transport across the intestine. Ann N Y Acad Sci, 915, 54-66.

Zeuthen, T., Belhage, B., & Zeuthen, E. (2006). Water transport by Na+-coupled cotransporters of glucose (SGLT1) and of iodide (NIS). The dependence of substrate size studied at high resolution. J Physiol, 570(Pt 3), 485-499.

Zeuthen, T. (2010). Water-transporting proteins. J Membr Biol, 234(2), 57-73.

Los


----------



## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok, this can potentially be a stupid question. 
I went to grocery store to look at other sea salts since the one I have at home didn't list potassium as one of the ingredients. I could find none that would list it and my limited chemistry knowledge tells me that a regular salt is a Sodium Chloride (NaCl) so if there is no potassium (K) listed how does NaCl solution give you potassium in your sports drink?


----------



## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

It's pretty low percentage, and most packaging doesn't list it separate from "trace minerals." The vast majority of the mineral content of your sweat that must be replaced is sodium, and potassium is best found in vegetables. 

Los


----------



## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

When we originally started making Tailwind Nutrition in our kitchen, we would purchase potassium chloride from our natural foods store (and we still continue to add it separately in our Tailwind formulation). Sea salt alone does not contain enough potassium to replace what you sweat out, and table salt does not contain any significant amount of potassium due to the chemical processing which is performed on table salt.


----------



## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

jennyv said:


> When we originally started making Tailwind Nutrition in our kitchen, we would purchase potassium chloride from our natural foods store (and we still continue to add it separately in our Tailwind formulation). Sea salt alone does not contain enough potassium to replace what you sweat out, and table salt does not contain any significant amount of potassium due to the chemical processing which is performed on table salt.


Thanks, I think that's a good point. If your diet doesn't include a lot of potassium-rich foods, sea salt alone won't do.


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

Gundam168 said:


> Yep. That's my recipe.
> 
> 3 tbsp wild honey
> 1/2 tsp of salt
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the honey,I'm going to give that a try. I misunderstood also and had my sugar wrong.also the honey stingers have always worked good for me but I went off them becuse I was getting a discount from Hammer.


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

sslos said:


> Thanks, I think that's a good point. If your diet doesn't include a lot of potassium-rich foods, sea salt alone won't do.


sslos & Jenny, good points, if i'm getting potassium thru what I'm eating and then on race day(a 24 hr solo)if I use some Tailwind at 3 scoops, thier potassium264mg compaired to carborockets 170mg and the TWs sugar is 75g and CRs is 26g this is all based on the three scoops and the sodium in the TW per 3 scoops is 909mg and the CR is 444mg. So the two of you know alot about this from looking at the numbers but someone like me that just wants to put it into bottles and race and one might work better that the other but some of the numbers are a bit differnt and I would have to think that I'm going to run into problems at about hour 10 to 15.


----------



## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

idinomac said:


> sslos & Jenny, good points, if i'm getting potassium thru what I'm eating and then on race day(a 24 hr solo)if I use some Tailwind at 3 scoops, thier potassium264mg compaired to carborockets 170mg and the TWs sugar is 75g and CRs is 26g this is all based on the three scoops and the sodium in the TW per 3 scoops is 909mg and the CR is 444mg. So the two of you know alot about this from looking at the numbers but someone like me that just wants to put it into bottles and race and one might work better that the other but some of the numbers are a bit differnt and I would have to think that I'm going to run into problems at about hour 10 to 15.


Not exactly sure of what you're asking, so please correct me if I'm responding incorrectly.
I've found that for me, personally testing nutrition in training is key. 
Are the recommended quantities for the same amount of water; in other words, 3 scoops per x amount of water, is x the same for both products?

In my experience, my system handles solid foods for calories better than getting everything in the form of liquids, which is supported by the data I referenced. But again, without seeing how YOU do with it, all those studies are meaningless!

Los


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

Los,thank-you much, I do know about trying it first in training first but I'm not going to go much more than 12 hrs in my training. what I'm trying to say is that between the stuff that's in the two (carborocket & tailwind) mixing 3 scoops to say 24oz I would be getting more soduim & sugar with the TW 2x as much and what I'm saying is sometime after 12 hours of racing I'm talking about running in the top 5, after the 12 hours one of the mixs' is going to be too much or and the other not enough. I have found that I can do better with some food also.
Dean.


----------



## mk.ultra (Jul 17, 2012)

I love the recipe but I would use sea salt


----------



## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

Idinomac, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I agree that you definitely need to test what you are going to use in training. Generally speaking, for Tailwind, we recommend starting off with 250 calories/24oz of water/hour and then adjusting up or down from there. This is dependent upon how efficiently your body processes calories (avg. human processes between 200-300 calories/hour). Also, although Tailwind is designed as a sole fuel source, you can take in other calories and dial back the calorie concentration accordingly. For example, let's say that you also plan on consuming 100 calories in food per hour, then dial back the concentration to 150 calories/24oz of water/hour.

As for electrolytes, both CarboRocket and Tailwind contain way more electrolytes than other drinks out there which is why you typically don't need to supplement with salt tabs or salt pills. The average human sweats sodium (0.9 gram/liter), potassium (0.2 g/l), calcium (0.015 g/l), magnesium (0.0013 g/l) and other trace minerals (and this is the same profile we used for electrolytes in Tailwind).

So, with both CarboRocket and Tailwind you can dial in the amount you need based on the number of scoops you use. Hope this helps.


----------



## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

OP, great recipe. Works very well for me. Thanks for posting.

Anyone recommending sea salt is missing the point.


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

jennyv said:


> Idinomac, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I agree that you definitely need to test what you are going to use in training. Generally speaking, for Tailwind, we recommend starting off with 250 calories/24oz of water/hour and then adjusting up or down from there. This is dependent upon how efficiently your body processes calories (avg. human processes between 200-300 calories/hour). Also, although Tailwind is designed as a sole fuel source, you can take in other calories and dial back the calorie concentration accordingly. For example, let's say that you also plan on consuming 100 calories in food per hour, then dial back the concentration to 150 calories/24oz of water/hour.
> 
> As for electrolytes, both CarboRocket and Tailwind contain way more electrolytes than other drinks out there which is why you typically don't need to supplement with salt tabs or salt pills. The average human sweats sodium (0.9 gram/liter), potassium (0.2 g/l), calcium (0.015 g/l), magnesium (0.0013 g/l) and other trace minerals (and this is the same profile we used for electrolytes in Tailwind).
> 
> So, with both CarboRocket and Tailwind you can dial in the amount you need based on the number of scoops you use. Hope this helps.


It's all good Jenny,I haven;t been on here much myself, I know about cutting back when I eat but I was just stacking the numbers with TW and CR 333 with the TW it has 25grams of sugar per scoop with CR333 it only 25ish grams per three scoops (so how is CR getting higher carbs with less sugar? unless I'm reading their label wrong) I know that I will get that sick felling with to much sugar at about the 18th hour in a 24 solo. Dean


----------



## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

I looked up the ingredients for CarboRocket, and they use a 2:1 ratio of maltodextrin to fructose. My guess is they are listing the fructose as "sugar" and calling the maltodextrin "carbohydrate". They list 84g of "carbohydrate". So it's really maltodextrin sugar, just not called that on the label. 

There are three main types of carbohydrates:
1. Simple carbohydrates: composed of 1 or 2 sugar units that are broken down and digested quickly.
2. Complex carbohydrates (also referred to as starch) are made up of many sugar units. They are structurally more complex and take longer to be broken down and digested. Maltodextrin is a complex carbohydrate.
3. Indigestible carbohydrates are also called fiber. The body is unable to breakdown fiber into small enough units for absorption. It is therefore not an energy source for the body but does promote health in many other ways.

So, CR does have roughly the same amount of sugar as Tailwind and the same amount of carbohydrates (because they are the same thing).

Hope this helps!
Jenny


----------



## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

jennyv said:


> I looked up the ingredients for CarboRocket, and they use a 2:1 ratio of maltodextrin to fructose. My guess is they are listing the fructose as "sugar" and calling the maltodextrin "carbohydrate". They list 84g of "carbohydrate". So it's really maltodextrin sugar, just not called that on the label.
> 
> There are three main types of carbohydrates:
> 1. Simple carbohydrates: composed of 1 or 2 sugar units that are broken down and digested quickly.
> ...


It does help thank-you so much!


----------



## SandSpur (Mar 19, 2013)

Whambat said:


> I have to caution against to much potassium, you can easily get into a state of hyperkalemia, potassium poisoning: it can be fatal. I'd recommend sticking to the ratio that salt stick uses posted above. Use regular salt to bring up the sodium while cutting back on the potassium. Hyperkalemia can cause heart dysrhythmias, a weak or slow pulse and paralysis.
> 
> Seriously, look it up.


Just wanted to comment on this since I did some looking up today. The recommended daily allowance of Potassium is 4700 mg. To give you an idea, one banana is about 500mg.. After looking into my diet, im probably only getting 2,000mg on the highest days.

Here is a link I found that lists some foods with potassium: 10 High Potassium Foods / Nutrition / Vitamins and Minerals

The OP's recipe of 1-1/2 tsp of light salt (1/4 tsp is 350mg of potassium) would yield 2100mg.


----------



## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

math is good.


----------



## Gibbsinator (Jul 24, 2013)

Hundun said:


> No, I'm not really concerned about carb levels changing with differing fruit juices
> 
> The reason I chose fruit juice over Kool-ade is because I detest chemical flavorings and dyes and juice is the more natural choice.
> 
> ...


We agree on these things. I'll take real sugar over any crap they are making to replace or mimic it. Thanks for the recipe I can't wait to try.


----------



## Taranis (Dec 30, 2009)

Used this recipe last weekend for a 3+ hour ride w/ 4K climbing and it worked great, in combination with a mid ride Bannana


----------



## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I made a 2 qt. batch the other day and thought it was great! I can't remember exactly what the original Gator Aid tasted like,but I thought mine reminded me of it.
Made a few adjustments:

1tsp Mediterranean sea salt
1/2tsp light salt
1 cup orange juice
juice from 1/2 lemon
a little less than 1/4 cup unfiltered honey 
fill the rest with water

I think I might mess around with a mix (minus the salt) to drink anytime.


----------



## Bizman (Oct 11, 2010)

I only use 1/4 tsp lite salt and 1/4 tsp regular salt per 2 quart mix. More than that and I thought it was rather salty. I did make a batch up without the salt like you said you may mess around with, but it just wasn't the same. I always liked Gatorade but prefer this much better as it is more natural, and tastes great!


----------



## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Gundam168 said:


> Yep. That's my recipe.
> 
> 3 tbsp wild honey
> 1/2 tsp of salt
> 750 ml water


This seems like it would be great to cut some of the honey out and blend in a few dates instead.

Here's another recipe I've been meaning to try:


Thrive Homemade Sports Drink Recipe (raw) said:


> Juice of 1/2 lemon
> Juice of 1/4 lime
> 3 dates
> 2 cups water
> ...


Source: Thrive Sports Drink | No Meat Athlete

It's pretty close to the recipe sslos posted just with more dates and less honey. Dates have more potassium by weight than bananas and are a great natural sweetener. I normally munch on them like shot blocks on a ride.



sslos said:


> Here's a recipe that I use:
> 
> 1 1/2 Tablespoon of organic, local honey
> 1 1/2-3 Tablespoons fresh-squeezed lime juice (to taste)
> ...


----------



## pdxmark (Aug 7, 2013)

I have a family history of pretty bad night cramps in the legs. I suffer from it, my mom and brother suffer from it, and my grandmother had them bad, as well as her father. I'm going to make some today and have the family start using it in hopes it changes our lives. Thanks for the post OP!


----------



## Gibbsinator (Jul 24, 2013)

SandSpur said:


> Just wanted to comment on this since I did some looking up today. The recommended daily allowance of Potassium is 4700 mg. To give you an idea, one banana is about 500mg.. After looking into my diet, im probably only getting 2,000mg on the highest days.
> 
> Here is a link I found that lists some foods with potassium: 10 High Potassium Foods / Nutrition / Vitamins and Minerals
> 
> The OP's recipe of 1-1/2 tsp of light salt (1/4 tsp is 350mg of potassium) would yield 2100mg.


So if the entire 2 quarts of product is 2100mg, we would need a gallon of this elixir, a couple bananas, and more before we broke the daily potassium allowance. Is that right? That's before we account for how much potassium we lose. Can someone elaborate how drinking this will kill me? Personally, I only eat 2 of those high potassium foods regularly. I believe my potassium intake is below the daily allowance.

For the record, too much anything can kill you.


----------



## TallChris (Oct 16, 2008)

Thread resurrection!

I ran into some gut cramping issues about 3 months into my training. Plain water, an occasional electrolyte tab, some hammer gel was no longer cutting it. The cramps wouldn't stop me in my tracks but they were uncomfortable and very distracting. I read around this site, researched the topic, found this post, gave your recipe a try and it works. I didn't have any cramps, not even the hint of one beginning. I have to tweak the taste a bit, but I'm very happy with the results. 

Thank you, SSLOS!


----------



## Accex (Aug 11, 2012)

In my country I can't buy that "Morton Lite Salt", so, will adding just potassium chloride with other ingredients have same effect?


----------



## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

seems like that would work.


----------



## Accex (Aug 11, 2012)

Is anyone tried something like that?


----------



## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

i'm sure they have. google it.


----------



## Accex (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks mate


----------



## AngelTherapy3 (Aug 22, 2014)

I set up an account so I could comment. I made this drink & it tastes EXACTLY like sports drink! Thank you so much for the recipe!!


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Good thread. I am the perfect guinea-pig as I suffer from terrible cramp, typically after maybe thirty-miles but last year it came on thirteen-miles into a fifty-mile ride and by the end I could hardly walk. 

Once the cramps in my calves start they just get worse no matter what I do. Stop and rest, push on, rub my legs, makes no difference. I've tried eating a lot, not eating much, different drinks, just now I'm on High5 4:1, but nothing stops them.

I'll make up some of the drink listed here and see what happens. If it works I'll be a happy pig! ;0)


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

1 1/2 Tablespoon of organic, local honey
1 1/2-3 Tablespoons fresh-squeezed lime juice (to taste)
1/4 Teaspoon of good quality, unprocessed sea salt (not table salt or kosher salt!)
24 oz. filtered water

So I'll try this one, but do you need the lime juice? Could you use another juice in stead?


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Making my own based off of the World Health Organization rehydration salts formula. Dextrose, Morton Salt Balance (instead of "lite" or "sea salt"), and Sodium Citrate. Also whatever comes with the flavoring I add later, if I choose to (ex. sucrose with the Countrytime Lemonade mix which I currently have).

Got the hard to find ingredients from Amazon. Ex. Amazon.com : 4mular Sodium Citrate, 34 Ounce : Natural Flavoring Extracts : Grocery & Gourmet Food

Looks like the Tailwind formula is similar but takes it a bit further, supplementing calcium and magnesium. What I don't understand is how fructose (part of honey and sucrose/sugar) being mixed in helps, especially when ideally you should be sipping periodically. I've read that it is digested into fat (apparently a triglyceride type) and glucose by the liver, while dextrose/glucose is straight up made available without digestion. Not sure if using more potassium with Morton Lite is helpful or not, considering too much is harmful. Nutrition facts labels don't include potassium content all the time (ex. peanut butter). Just going to follow a proven tested formula to start, aiming to replace what's lost, rather than supplementing for dietary deficiencies.

I got a massive supply this way, pennies per serving. I figure later I can play around and gelatinize it too, into gummies. Maybe add supplements later, like B vitamins, since that's relatively safe and apparently it aids in burning calories from carbs, fat, and protein. Not sure if it burns alcohol based calories, but any excess is pissed out, due to it being water soluble.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ended up just copying the Tailwind formula instead, since the WHO formula might as well be sea water.

Thanks Tailwind! Your formula is far far better! Noticed that Morton's Salt Balance has Calcium Silicate and Magnesium Carbonate, which are for anti-caking and to be free flowing. So basically the only ingredients I'm using are Dextrose, Morton's Salt Balance, and Sodium Citrate. Just needed to find the right ratio to match the Tailwind formula, knowing 20g of Dextrose is 80 kcal, 1g of sodium citrate powder is 190mg Sodium, and 1/4 tsp of Morton's Salt Balance is 440mg Sodium and 200mg of Potassium.










It works! Buy tailwind if ordering all the ingredients in measuring and mixing is too inconvenient and if you want flavor. At less than $1/serving, it's not a bad deal at all.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ended up adding some regular sugar (sucrose) to my mix too, since it appears the "unflavored" version isn't really unflavored and isn't palatable to others. It doesn't taste like plain water nor like any other sports drink they've had... more like medicinal water after tossing a tablet in (like alka seltzer, which happens to have some similar ingredients). Well, it's not like I'm trying to sell batches to others, but I can see why Tailwind did it. The dextrose really isn't very sweet. Not sure if I have to be too wary about too much of it at one time, due to blood sugar spikes and the resulting insulin reaction, as it's only about 25g of sugar per water bottle at normal strength. The fructose in sucrose and honey isn't really that much anyways, even if it does get stored as a fat (triglyceride) rather than glycogen.

Sugar is the 2nd main ingredient in Tailwind, while it turns out that it's the main ingredient in Skratch, when I went to reference it (Matcha tea + lemon flavor):


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Getting impressive results from switching from plain water, starting mid July.


----------

