# Niterider Lumina 700 versus 650



## Chewieez (Oct 10, 2004)

I'm in the market to purchase one of the Lumina lights I've heard from many of my friends that they use the Medium setting most often. I noticed that the new Lumina 700 has a lower medium lumen setting compared to the 650. It is stated to be 400 lumens on medium on the 650 and 350 lumens on the 700. Has anyone used both or own both and could comment as to whether there is a noticeable difference in power between the medium setting on the two lights?

Thank you!


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## XCfanatic (Jul 14, 2010)

I'll first qualify this post as I don't own the 650. I actually was looking at NR Lumina 700 and Cygolite Expilion 700, but decided on Lumina 700 because it has more flood. Then when comparing the 700 vs 650, I was able to get a better price on the 700 so no brainer. Even at the medium setting, it's still very bright so I would be surprised if one can distinguished between 350 and 400. I will likely keep it at medium setting for majority of my rides to maximize the run time while keeping the trail sufficiently lit.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Chewieez said:


> I'm in the market to purchase one of the Lumina lights I've heard from many of my friends that they use the Medium setting most often. I noticed that the new Lumina 700 has a lower medium lumen setting compared to the 650. It is stated to be 400 lumens on medium on the 650 and 350 lumens on the 700. Has anyone used both or own both and could comment as to whether there is a noticeable difference in power between the medium setting on the two lights?
> 
> Thank you!


don't listen to people who say they don't use the high setting on their light - everybody says that to make you think their light is too bright to use the highest setting. fact of the matter is that people with 5,000+ Lumens use the highest settings of their lights and people with 200 Lumens say their light is too bright to use the high setting.

it's the same with phones. people with 4" screen phones say anything over 4" is too big, but people with 5" screen phones say 5" is not enough. it's also the same with cars - people with 120 hp cars think 200 hp is too much but people with 500 hp cars think 500 hp is not enough. same with money. same with fitness. same with everything. just have to ignore it when people say these things - otherwise you will become a communist 

last year EVERYBODY told me that on the 900 Lumen Lupine Piko i wouldn't need to use the high setting - in the end i ended up having to return the Piko to the store because even on the high setting it was just way too dim. people will always tell you that their light is too bright no matter how dim it is. and politicians will always tell you that they will lower taxes and then they will always raise taxes. i wish there was something we could do about it but we can't - that's just how it is, always was, and always will be.

nobody cares if what they say has anything to do with reality - people either say things to get something, or to make themselves feel good, or both. sometimes people know they're BSing, and sometimes they believe what they say - but it's still BS.

reality is if there was EVEN A SINGLE LIGHT on the market that was too bright Cree would be bankrupt - the only reason they are in business at all is because three is always a demand for brighter LEDs - so the idea that an entry-level light has enough output on middle setting is a JOKE - and the joke is getting old - and i really wish people would just stop - but i know it's not going to happen.

car brake lights ( BRAKE lights, NOT headlights ) are 1600 lumens ( 4 x 400 ), an average reading light is about 3,000 lumens. HMI studio lights are 150,000 lumens PER BULB. the sun puts down 1,000 watts of light per square meter of Earth surface, that's 100,000 lumens per square meter - so if your headlight covers a 50 square meter patch, that same patch receives 5,000,000 lumens during the day. that's FIVE MILLION lumens.

meanwhile we have characters telling us that 700 lumens is too much ... who are they kidding ?

to get anywhere close to daylight levels of light you would need an entire field covered with diesel generators mounted on giant trucks, driving millions of dollars worth of HMI lights - which coincidentally is exactly what they had when they were filming the movie Gladiator. and they didn't think it was too bright.

i always use my 1700 lumen light on high, except on MUP, and i really wish it was brighter, and i ride on streets with good street lighting. ( beam pattern and where you mount the light matters here - a narrower beam pattern light on the helmet you can always turn away from a driver's eyes. a wide beam pattern light mounted on the bar will get you more complaints. i recommend putting the main light on the helmet, and a supplementary / backup light on the bar )

the only reason to use medium setting on a light with less than about 5,000 lumens would be if you're afraid to run out of battery life, or if your beam is in somebody's face.

and finally - i can barely tell the difference between 1700 and 850 lumen settings on my light - i don't know how you intend on noticing the difference between 400 and 350. human senses are logarithmic not linear - they have incredible dynamic range such that you can hear a mosquito as well as a jackhammer and you can see your slippers in a dark room at night and also you can see the sun during the day - on such a huge scale where the ratio of high to low level is millions or hundreds of millions to one you have to be kidding yourself if you think 400 to 350 makes any difference whatsoever.

hope this helps.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

XCfanatic said:


> I'll first qualify this post as I don't own the 650. I actually was looking at NR Lumina 700 and Cygolite Expilion 700, but decided on Lumina 700 because it has more flood. Then when comparing the 700 vs 650, I was able to get a better price on the 700 so no brainer. Even at the medium setting, it's still very bright so I would be surprised if one can distinguished between 350 and 400. I will likely keep it at medium setting for majority of my rides to maximize the run time while keeping the trail sufficiently lit.


I have two Lumina 650's that I bought last year. Initially they were great, but I fell into the same rut you are speaking of in terms of running it on Medium to conserve battery life. Truthfully, I didn't feel that I needed the High setting on most of the trails, but part of that was myself adapting my speed & energy output to the available light.

I ended up getting a more powerful light with an external battery this year. My rides were getting longer and I didn't want to be held back by the runtime and output of my lights. Now that I have a more powerful light, the Lumina 650 doesn't feel very bright at all. I'm still using it on my helmet for now, but about to order another light set to replace it. I'll still use it for road rides and I let my gf use it. The L650 is still a good light with a nice beam for its size, but for hardcore trail use, I ultimately needed something more powerful and longer lasting.


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## XCfanatic (Jul 14, 2010)

steelhmr said:


> I have two Lumina 650's that I bought last year. Initially they were great, but I fell into the same rut you are speaking of in terms of running it on Medium to conserve battery life. Truthfully, I didn't feel that I needed the High setting on most of the trails, but part of that was myself adapting my speed & energy output to the available light.
> 
> I ended up getting a more powerful light with an external battery this year. My rides were getting longer and I didn't want to be held back by the runtime and output of my lights. Now that I have a more powerful light, the Lumina 650 doesn't feel very bright at all. I'm still using it on my helmet for now, but about to order another light set to replace it. I'll still use it for road rides and I let my gf use it. The L650 is still a good light with a nice beam for its size, but for hardcore trail use, I ultimately needed something more powerful and longer lasting.


I agree with you 100%. I wouldn't use this on a hardcore trail use. This will be used by my little one on a wide paved trail.

How are they holding up for you after a year? Still holding charge very well or has the run time diminished? Thanks


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

XCfanatic said:


> I agree with you 100%. I wouldn't use this on a hardcore trail use. This will be used by my little one on a wide paved trail.
> 
> How are they holding up for you after a year? Still holding charge very well or has the run time diminished? Thanks


I will have to do a runtime test and let you know. Most of my night riding takes place in the Fall/Winter. Lately myself or gf just use them for commuting (even then those run times are 30 min or less and are usually on Low setting). It is very convenient since they slide right off of the holder and into your pocket, unlike my new light. The L650 is still preferable when I want to commute and park my bike. Plenty bright for moderate speed road use, even on Low.


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## canuckjgc (Jun 22, 2007)

I agree with androgen - no light is too bright. Until someone posts an actual accident *caused by a cyclist's light that was too bright* then all of this "blinding" talk is all crap. 

I did a quick search:

1) No. of accidents caused by a cyclist's light being too bright = zero
2) No. of accidents caused by insufficient or non-existent cycle lighting = thousands

So do you want to buy a lower lumen light to "protect" all those poor road users from your "blinding" light? Or do you want to prevent an accident by being sufficiently lit?

Go 1500 lumens plus.


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## Chewieez (Oct 10, 2004)

Thanks for all the input, even the off topic stuff.  You're probably correct that the difference between 350 and 400 lumens is not noticeable. Getting some second and third opinions is always good though.


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Physics tells us a basic idea: 4x output = 2x perceived brightness.

Right now I run a 120lm Nightrider. I would not consider a light under 500lm as a replacement if I were looking for raw light output. Obviously battery life is a different story and that has to do with efficiency.

The difference between 350 and 400lm, at that level of brightness, all other things being equal (focus and light color being the two biggies), is almost nothing. 

Right now the sweet spot on light output vs cost is the 500-700lm range. About $100 on average. the next mathematical step up would have to be in the 3000lm range which is to me, pretty darn expensive. 

IMO - either go really big, or go 700lm. Just pay attention to the focus of the beam and the color temp of the light. Rarely do these mfg's test their products exactly the same. Some have theoretical driver limits as their brightness. Some measure at a meter. Some measure at an inch.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

androgen said:


> don't listen to people who say they don't use the high setting on their light - everybody says that to make you think their light is too bright to use the highest setting. fact of the matter is that people with 5,000+ Lumens use the highest settings of their lights and people with 200 Lumens say their light is too bright to use the high setting.


Well, I for one do not fit your broad generalization regarding lights.

I do not use the highest setting on my helmet mounted TridenX 600 lumen light. It has a total of four brightness settings and I most often use the lowest or occasionally the next one up for trail riding, commutes and urban assault rides. Either of those two settings provides plenty of light and maximizes battery power. Anecdotally, I forgot my light last night and used a TridenX 750 mounted on the handlebars. It was not nearly as effective using any brightness setting as compared to helmet mounted 600.

I recently purchased a Minewt 500 cordless for my GF which also produces quite an impressive amount of light. I haven't used it on a night ride yet...

Side note: many automobile operators leave fog lights on all of the time. I only use them when necessary so that I do not blast the poor sods approaching in the opposite direction or in front of me :thumbsup:

A larger cell phone screen would be great for my presbyopic eyes just not a phablet thanks...


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

androgen said:


> and finally - *i can barely tell the difference between 1700 and 850 lumen settings on my light*


Androgen, if you can barely tell the difference between 1700 and 850 lumen on your light, then why not use them at the 850 lumen setting and save your battery? Seriously, I would like to know.

Chewieez, I agree with everyone saying that you will not notice the difference in brightness between 350 and 400 so that should be a non issue in your decision.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

MaximusHQ said:


> Androgen, if you can barely tell the difference between 1700 and 850 lumen on your light, then why not use them at the 850 lumen setting and save your battery? Seriously, I would like to know.


here is your answer:

Continuum fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Interesting reading.


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## roknfnrol (Sep 22, 2013)

I have two L700s- one for helmet, one for handlebars. I use these for 3hr mtn bikes rides locally. They work great.


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