# Jumbo Jim



## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Schwalbe is coming out with a new super light fat tire--the Jumbo Jim. It's 990 grams for 4.0 inches and 1290 grams for the heavier 4.8 inch casing (I think there might even be a light casing version of the 4.8, but the pinkbike article was unclear). I wonder if the tread will work on snow--the tread is pretty minimal compared to Bud, Lou, or even a Husker Du. Any thoughts...?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

My first impression is that the lugs are spread pretty far apart. My second impression....I want to try it!!

Mr. Schwalbe, I love your 29er tires...please send me a fat tire to try.


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## ionofchios (Mar 30, 2013)

Specs are now up on Schwalbe.com: http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/jumbo-jim.html.

There's also a new fat tube (at least I don't recall seeing it before), the 13J, which weighs 390 g.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeh...

Looks like a good summer tire. It certainly is light, but I wonder how tough it will be? Those two tend to be mutually exclusive. Ahh... doesn't matter anyway. Following their normal pricing, these will probably be $300. I don't see spending more for tires than I did for the wheels!


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

wie viel kostet es?


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

By those numbers their heaviest 4.8 is as light as most other manufacturers lightest 4.0. That's a huge difference.

Which is it?
a. they will hold up like tissue paper
b. they did some serious R&D and have far superior materials/methods
c. everyone else along the way has been winging it


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

The big Big Jim would make a nice light sand tire. I'm excited for these, Schwalbe knows what they are doing but they won't be for everyone that's for sure.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

love the weight but would be skerred to run them where i ride. look forward to hearing more about these.

rog


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

Gigantic said:


> wie viel kostet es?


From BikeRumor Eurobike report: "Retail price is set for 79.90 to 99.90 euros."
So $105 to $132. Cheap!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

SmooveP said:


> From BikeRumor Eurobike report: "Retail price is set for 79.90 to 99.90 euros."
> So $105 to $132. Cheap!


Not cheap at all cuz now I will have to build me a uber light summer wheelset to go with em. All said and done these will cost me over 1200 clams:madman::madman::rockon:


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

SmooveP said:


> From BikeRumor Eurobike report: "Retail price is set for 79.90 to 99.90 euros."
> So $105 to $132. Cheap!


sweet!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Doesn't matter if they suck, because they are light people won't be able to help themselves from buying them.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Doesn't matter if they suck, because they are light people won't be able to help themselves from buying them.


I have never been on a Schwalbe that sucked as long as I was using them for the conditions they where meant for, there might have been better but.........


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Doesn't matter if they suck, because they are light people won't be able to help themselves from buying them.


Yes, I call these people guinea pigs. I've never ridden any Schwalbe tires, but they seem to have loyal followers, as well as a buncha people who gripe that they're expensive. All speculation for now. The proof is in the pudding.


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## gcappy (Jul 1, 2012)

SmooveP said:


> Yes, I call these people guinea pigs. I've never ridden any Schwalbe tires, but they seem to have loyal followers, as well as a buncha people who gripe that they're expensive. All speculation for now. The proof is in the pudding.


I run nothing but Shwalbe's on my 29er. They are expensive and worth every penny! I run Evo, Snakeskin Knoby Nicks. Where I ride it's nothing but rocks and sticks. I run tubeless with Stan's rims and sealant. I have never had any issue with punctures or sidewall tears. When they make a more aggressive tread than the Jumbo Jim I will buy a whole bunch of them for our fatties!!


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

gcappy said:


> I run nothing but Shwalbe's on my 29er. They are expensive and worth every penny! ...


They are my first choice for any tyre, so I'm happy to see a fat tyre from them.


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## uwprunner (Sep 16, 2009)

Does anyone have any info on availability?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Judging by the pics, would you say this tire would offer lower rolling resistance then the Ground Controls on hardpack? Sorry if it is a dumb question.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Tincup69 said:


> Judging by the pics, would you say this tire would offer lower rolling resistance then the Ground Controls on hardpack? Sorry if it is a dumb question.


My guess is probably yes. I think the gc rolls pretty well though.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Tincup69 said:


> Judging by the pics, would you say this tire would offer lower rolling resistance then the Ground Controls on hardpack? Sorry if it is a dumb question.


Yes.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Um, ya think?

rog


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

This review says the 4.8 Jumbo Jim measured 4.4" on a 100mm rim. Lame.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/01...superlight-jumbo-jim-4-8-wide-fat-bike-tires/


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## NorthernMN (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm a big fan of Schwalbe tires on my mtb bike...but I'm not sure that tread is going to be much use in the snow. As I don't ride my fatty in the summer much, I'll pass on it until I hear otherwise.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

One of my distributors said mid month. Got my name on a pair. I'll let you know.

rog


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

These are shaping up to be more of a fast, high-speed tire, and not a slow, high-grip tire. You can't have it all...


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

cycloxer13 said:


> These are shaping up to be more of a fast, high-speed tire, and not a slow, high-grip tire. You can't have it all...


Low pressures and proper riding technique trump tread any day on most surfaces we ride on most of the time.

rog


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

cycloxer13 said:


> These are shaping up to be more of a fast, high-speed tire, and not a slow, high-grip tire. You can't have it all...


I thought that was clear from the start.

Not sure why they reviewed them in snow then complained they don't grip. ???

But not being true to size is a disappointment.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

People are F stupid. I still think it is a decent tire. You can take one look at the tread and tell where it is going to shine. Set these up tubeless and run them at low pressure and I bet they rip on singletrack.

Also, 4.4" is about right for the actual measurement of a 4.8. My Ground Controls measure in at 4.3" actual setup tubeless (they get a little bigger) and that is only a 4.6.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Well my knard 3.8 measure 4.9 on 65's. You need a pair.

rog


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

newmarketrog said:


> Low pressures and proper riding technique trump tread any day on most surfaces we ride on most of the time.
> 
> rog


This is so true, but an Endo in the front on an off camber downhill sweeper sure did require more technique than I could always deliver.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

newmarketrog said:


> Well my knard 3.8 measure 4.9 on 65's. You need a pair.
> 
> rog


such an old, heavy tire Rog, I'm holdin out for the Kenda's ;^)


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

cycloxer13 said:


> such an old, heavy tire Rog, I'm holdin out for the Kenda's ;^)


Me too

Just getting the jj to tide me over til the kenda pro 4.0 gets here in August

rog


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Oh for sure I'd have ridden a 4.8 JJ today (no snow yet here in central MA). It would have been a fine choice. GC has more tread and is pretty good for all-around use, a great stock tire, but heavy too, mine are like 1,520 actual.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

cycloxer13 said:


> Also, 4.4" is about right for the actual measurement of a 4.8. My Ground Controls measure in at 4.3" actual setup tubeless (they get a little bigger) and that is only a 4.6.


I vaguely recall an early review saying the JJ was true to size which I thought was awesome. A light, big tire for wide rims in summer. If it's smaller than my GC's I'm not interested.

EDIT: I just remeasure my GC's and I was wrong. They're NOT 4.5" on 90mm rims.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

My GC's measure 4.3 casing, 4.4 knob - measured with calipers. This is right on par with how comparable 45Nrth tires measure. See here:

https://45nrth.com/files/chronicles/Tire-Geometry_hires.jpg


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

cycloxer13 said:


> My GC's measure 4.3 casing, 4.4 knob - measured with calipers.


Huh. On which rims?


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

cycloxer13 said:


> Oh for sure I'd have ridden a 4.8 JJ today (no snow yet here in central MA). It would have been a fine choice. GC has more tread and is pretty good for all-around use, a great stock tire, but heavy too, mine are like 1,520 actual.


Ya I picked up a GC at a friends shop. Fvckin boat anchor. If spesh offered a gc in a 3.8 120 tpi at around 1000 grams It'd be on like donkey kong. Game over.

rog


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

newmarketrog said:


> If spesh offered a gc in a 3.8 120 tpi at around 1000 grams It'd be on like donkey kong. Game over.


...a few things in the works, FB world is changing quick


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

cycloxer13 said:


> ...a few things in the works, FB world is changing quick


Bring it

rog


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

I have had great results running Schwalbe Rocket Rons in the snow for past 3-4 years. Got a fatbike a couple of months ago. 

Thread on Jumbo Jims looks like what Rocket Ron has. I'll try a pair for sure. 

On a side note, bikeradar says they have run the Jumbo Jim at 10psi for testing. A bit high no.... ? They did mention in the comment section to play with pressures for riding, but who knows. 

These are also cheap compared to other options out there. 

Chris.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

I want to try a set for the summer not sure four or 4.8


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

RockyJo1 said:


> I want to try a set for the summer not sure four or 4.8


I ordered the 4" for the summer, we will see.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I think the 4.0 and the Kenda Juggernaut 4.0 are both lookin really nice for singletrack tires. They are both on my short list.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Did some more high altitude testing of the Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8s over the weekend. My pressure gauge starts at 3.0, so I have to estimate pressure, but it should be well below 2psi in this clip.
As can be seen from the video, it was a rather powdery section of ''trail'':


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Espen W said:


> Did some more high altitude testing of the Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8s over the weekend. My pressure gauge starts at 3.0, so I have to estimate pressure, but it should be well below 2psi in this clip.
> As can be seen from the video, it was a rather powdery section of ''trail'':


WOW!

Very cool video. I only wish we had that snow up at Big Sky Mt..

Once again thanks.

Tubed?


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## makaman (Mar 9, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Did some more high altitude testing of the Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8s over the weekend. My pressure gauge starts at 3.0, so I have to estimate pressure, but it should be well below 2psi in this clip.
> As can be seen from the video, it was a rather powdery section of ''trail'':


That was awesome. You ARE the man!


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## gecho (Apr 27, 2012)

I've used that seesaw technique myself to try and keep moving forward when I suddenly encounter the soft stuff.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

None of that would help me... Only 10" wide tires would get me on top of snow that soft.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

Espen W said:


> Did some more high altitude testing of the Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8s over the weekend. My pressure gauge starts at 3.0, so I have to estimate pressure, but it should be well below 2psi in this clip.
> As can be seen from the video, it was a rather powdery section of ''trail'':


What rims are those?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

racefit said:


> What rims are those?


Our own C4 103mm rims. 
Essentially a 103mm version of the 80mm rim that Borealis/Turnagain sells.
I run them tubeless without any latex solution.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

That is an awesome video! I am really wanting 100mm rims and some wide tires now.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Does anyone have these tires in stock yet?


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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

RockyJo1 said:


> Does anyone have these tires in stock yet?


I posted this awhile back. I emailed Schwalbe directly and was told "early spring" for the US. If you're really itchy, there's a pair up on eBay right now.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Our own C4 103mm rims.
> Essentially a 103mm version of the 80mm rim that Borealis/Turnagain sells.
> I run them tubeless without any latex solution.


And when are these going to be available?


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

sean salach said:


> And when are these going to be available?


2045


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm waiting on some from Bike24 in Germany...still saying unknown delivery.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Tunalic said:


> I'm waiting on some from Bike24 in Germany...still saying unknown delivery.


Me too.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

R-2 bike says April/2015 for all models.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Espen W said:


> Our own C4 103mm rims.
> Essentially a 103mm version of the 80mm rim that Borealis/Turnagain sells.
> I run them tubeless without any latex solution.


Thanks for letting us know it was tubeless. That's impressive to say the least.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

NYrr496 said:


> None of that would help me... Only 10" wide tires would get me on top of snow that soft.


I don't think that is totally true. Espen correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like the "powder" is only few inches deep over a marginal crust. The trick looks like it was staying on top of the crust. Not to say that in itself is not impressive but it is different than staying on top of thigh deep powder. I would not want to ride very far in that snow combination regardless of tires and rims. I would just end up collapsed on the side of the trail.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

sryanak said:


> I don't think that is totally true. Espen correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like the "powder" is only few inches deep over a marginal crust. The trick looks like it was staying on top of the crust. Not to say that in itself is not impressive but it is different than staying on top of thigh deep powder. I would not want to ride very far in that snow combination regardless of tires and rims. I would just end up collapsed on the side of the trail.


It is approx. 30cm (1ft) of dry powder on top of a marginal layer of crust covering another 2+ft of powdery snow. 
Skinnier tires or more tire pressure would have seen me break through that crust, as evidenced by my rather clumsy attempts at walking there (I'm around 145lbs).

It is very hard to judge snow depth and conditions from a video, so if I had just shown the section where I'm on the bike, folks could assume that it was rock hard below. That is why it is crucial to have a reference, like someone trying to walk. Next time I'll have someone trying to walk there as I ''zoom'' by on the bike.

Here is another one from the same place:





I think the Schwalbes work so well in conditions like this since they combine huge volume (265mm bead to bead) vs. approx 260mm for Bud/Lou with rather low (3.5mm) center and transition knobs. While a tire with taller knobs have more traction in powder, the tall knobs will cause the tire to cut into and mash the surface, especially on semi hard surfaces. They sort of create their own powder.


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## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

Mine 4.8" SnakeSkin Version arrived today. Will mount them on 90mm Carbon-Rims from Ican.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Duci said:


> Mine 4.8" SnakeSkin Version arrived today. Will mount them on 90mm Carbon-Rims from Ican.


Can you weigh it before you mount? Would be great to have some weight references.


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## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

slabber said:


> Can you weigh it before you mount? Would be great to have some weight references.


Yes sure. I've got the heavier version (SnakeSkin) - should weigh around 1280gr


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Most importantly, where did you get the tires from if you don't mind sharing?

Chris.


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## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

krzysiekmz said:


> Most importantly, where did you get the tires from if you don't mind sharing?
> 
> Chris.


Unfortunately I had to promise not to tell where I got the tires from. But some Fatbike manufactureres already got these tires. Just the aftermarket will be delivered later (according to Schwalbe early march in Europe)


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## Duci (Jul 21, 2011)

slabber said:


> Can you weigh it before you mount? Would be great to have some weight references.


Strange - 1280gr and 1375gr - maybe they are from pre-production?!


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Duci said:


> Strange - 1280gr and 1375gr - maybe they are from pre-production?!


Almost 100g variance between the two... interesting, but not that unexpected? Doesn't take too much to add a few grams on tires of this size... Certainly appreciate you taking the time to weigh them, good to know, thanks.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2015)

Jumbo Jim's look to have arrived in the UK.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sideways-Cycles/272904326112367

Funny because I leave for the UK in 2 days and will be out there for 3 weeks. Unfortunately, Sideways cycles will be 4 hours away from where I'm staying...


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

^^^ but if you are in the same place for 3 weeks then I am sure Tim would send you some to your lodgings, no problem! :thumbsup:


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

4.8 Jimmys at something like sub 1psi tubeless.
Takes flotation to another realm. Utterly sick. See my previous powder vid, for example.
(And I (167lb including the fatbike) can still ride on a plowed road without riding the sidewalls of the rim. Not that I would want to for long, though..)

Feels like the wheels have been replaced by belts. Unstoppable traction.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2015)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> ^^^ but if you are in the same place for 3 weeks then I am sure Tim would send you some to your lodgings, no problem! :thumbsup:


Very true, we'll see. I will be in Weymouth so very close to Charlie the Bike Monger so I might stop in and see what he may have on hand. Been trying to contact him through email for 3 weeks to see if I can get a fatbike for a few days while I'm out but i can't seem to get a response...


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

Bike24 says Schwalbe is currently saying they will not be delivered until the middle of March.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

More fun at what must be sub 1 psi.
Deep snow (sank in to my hip in some places when testing on foot).

To get an idea about what that tire pressure looks like, see the pinch test:


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Espen, How do your sidewalls hold up at those pressures. Back in the day with 120tpi Endo's and more recently with Escalators if I run low enough pressure that I get significant sidewall wrinkles when riding then my side walls start to break down. On the Escalators running tubless I now have a constant slow sealant weep at several spots along the side walls. I have been running higher pressures just to preserve tire life. The tires still have all their nubbies from the molding process but the side walls have noticable breakdown a,oong the casing tnread lines.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

sryanak said:


> Espen, How do your sidewalls hold up at those pressures.


They are still in one piece, which is pretty impressive after so many miles at sub 2psi.
It is probably due to the thin and supple Liteskin casing.
As mentioned, I run these tubeless without any latex solution, and I have found that the rear wheel now loses pressure faster than before. The front is still perfectly fine without any Stan's. My guess is that the extreme, sustained wrinkling of the rear tire has opened up some micro pores in the rubber coating, but I'm condfident that a minimal amount (less than 2oz) of Stan's will seal it to perfection.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

If the Jumbo Jims do not start arriving soon I will be ordering Hbillies.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

RockyJo1 said:


> If the Jumbo Jims do not start arriving soon I will be ordering Hbillies.


I'm still holding out with an existing order for the Jumbo Jims, as I'm looking for lightweight volume. I don't think the H-Billie is on same level. I've been riding Snowshoes for two seasons and would stay away from that basic tread pattern personally. Not enough cornering knobs. I recently purchased a Vee Bulldozer which is better but would still prefer a more aggressive full volume front tire without the weight of the Bud - hoping to see the Juggernaut 4.5 soon.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

RockyJo1 said:


> If the Jumbo Jims do not start arriving soon I will be ordering Hbillies.


I like mine a lot. I had planned to get JJ's when they come out but the H Billies have been great. I'll be putting a Vanhelga up front now that we're into deeper snow season but for light snow & dirt the H Billies are excellent.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

jeffw-13 said:


> I like mine a lot. I had planned to get JJ's when they come out but the H Billies have been great. I'll be putting a Vanhelga up front now that we're into deeper snow season but for light snow & dirt the H Billies are excellent.


What size rim are you running? I have 65mm wondering about rim protection.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

RockyJo1 said:


> What size rim are you running? I have 65mm wondering about rim protection.


i'm running one as well, on marge lites. I've gone as low as 3-4 psi in the snow without issue, zero self steer. I'll run it between 12-14 psi in the dirt, generally.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

RockyJo1 said:


> What size rim are you running? I have 65mm wondering about rim protection.


80mm Sun Ringle Mulefut


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2015)

Well, I've pulled the trigger while visiting the UK and purchased a pair from Sideways Cycles. Can't wait to get them home and mounted on the Fatty in a couple weeks time.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice ! Which ones ? 

Keen to hear about the 4.8" liteskins... I need a high volume lightweight tyre for this years desert race and Buds are not going to pass the weigh in.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Do the liteskins have a different bead. Neither size are TL 


Pedaling


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2015)

I ordered the 4.8 Liteskins as that is all they had. 

All the Jumbo Jims are EVO tires so they are TL ready. The shop I ordered them from has set up multiple sets Tubeless with ease. I'm not back home in the states for a couple weeks yet so I won't have any reports soon. 

It will be interesting because these should actually be lighter than my Mammoths and I'm not planning on using any sealant at first as I have Mulefut rims that are TL ready as well. Plus, I am going to ditch the Gorilla tape and try something like the Tyvek tap to seal the spoke holes. I should end up with measurablely less rotating mass.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

That's what I had figured, but Schwalbe kinda sounds like the beads are different and TL is easier tubeless. Thanks


Pedaling


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2015)

rjedoaks said:


> That's what I had figured, but Schwalbe kinda sounds like the beads are different and TL is easier tubeless. Thanks
> 
> Pedaling


It is a little confusing and they are different, but I don't know the specific details.

Snakeskin tire is "TL Easy"
Liteskins is just "TL Ready"
I have no idea what makes the TL Easy, easier but every schwalbe tire I've used that is TL ready has been a cinch to set up. Of course, it also depends on the rim...


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Does the liteskin casing feel thin ?


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

ebnash said:


> Well, I've pulled the trigger while visiting the UK and purchased a pair from Sideways Cycles. Can't wait to get them home and mounted on the Fatty in a couple weeks time.


Great to hear that Tim sorted you out! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2015)

ozzybmx said:


> Does the liteskin casing feel thin ?


I will let you know when they show up at my Hotel. I can put a caliper on it and get an actual value if you like.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2015)

Flying_Scotsman said:


> Great to hear that Tim sorted you out! :thumbsup:


Yes, he was extremely easy to deal with and quick to respond via email. I would definitely buy from him again when out here. Too bad I am so far away as I would like to visit his shop.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I am thinking group buy via ebnash?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> I am thinking group buy via ebnash?


I heard there is a bunch of to be had in Amsterdam, if everyone would kick in a few bucks to get me there I promise I would bring/ship a bunch back


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bdundee said:


> I heard there is a bunch of to be had in Amsterdam, if everyone would kick in a few bucks to get me there I promise I would bring/ship a bunch back


You would come back 15lbs heavier, and most certainly test positive for most every drug known to man. Sans tires.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> I am thinking group buy via ebnash?


Not sure how that would work... He would need to ship them to the states and I have no idea how much that would be. To be honest, I may have paid more because of VAT since he sold them to me while in the UK. I would be happy to put any of you in touch with Sideways cycles and I think if enough of you got together, maybe their would be a break in pricing. You would need to request he remove VAT and get a shipping quote.

Erik


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## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

Just picked up a pair of liteskin 4.0's from my LBS. Got lucky. They're shipping OE on Felts and the guy that bought one wanted studded tires for the ice festival that Anchorage has been this winter. I got the JJ's off his bike. Getting mounted up tubeless on some 65mm Nexties as we speak. Pix as soon as I get it back from the shop. I know, I know....pics or it didn't happen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

anortherncrazy said:


> Just picked up a pair of liteskin 4.0's from my LBS. Got lucky. They're shipping OE on Felts and the guy that bought one wanted studded tires for the ice festival that Anchorage has been this winter. I got the JJ's off his bike. Getting mounted up tubeless on some 65mm Nexties as we speak. Pix as soon as I get it back from the shop. I know, I know....pics or it didn't happen!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you weigh them by any chance ?


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

anortherncrazy said:


> Just picked up a pair of liteskin 4.0's from my LBS. Got lucky. They're shipping OE on Felts and the guy that bought one wanted studded tires for the ice festival that Anchorage has been this winter. I got the JJ's off his bike. Getting mounted up tubeless on some 65mm Nexties as we speak. Pix as soon as I get it back from the shop. I know, I know....pics or it didn't happen!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


nice!!!!


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

anortherncrazy said:


> pics or it didn't happen!


Pics *on a scale* or it didn't happen


----------



## Daniel Middleton (Nov 11, 2014)

Looks like they are available here in Japan for about $150US each for the 4.8's. Stated weights: 
26x4.00：1090 g
26x4.80：1290 g
Rakuten has an English site and international shipping, but I couldn't find the tires on their global site.
??????????? SCHWALBE ?????? JUMBO JIM?26x4.00 (Snakeskin,TL Easy)??????????CYCLE-GARAGE


----------



## Guest (Feb 28, 2015)

Received the Jumbo Jim 26X4.8 Liteskin in the mail yesterday. They seem pretty light in weight, but the sidewalls are pretty standard thickness, feel just like my Hand Dampf and I have beat the **** out of those with never a burp or sidewall tear. Not what I would call a minimalistic tire by any means so I'm not sure the extra weight of the Snakeskin is even necessary. Only riding for them a bit will tell the truth. Will be at least 2 weeks before I am home, over the jet lag and have them mounted up to test.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

ebnash said:


> Received the Jumbo Jim 26X4.8 Liteskin in the mail yesterday. They seem pretty light in weight, but the sidewalls are pretty standard thickness, feel just like my Hand Dampf and I have beat the **** out of those with never a burp or sidewall tear. Not what I would call a minimalistic tire by any means so I'm not sure the extra weight of the Snakeskin is even necessary. Only riding for them a bit will tell the truth. Will be at least 2 weeks before I am home, over the jet lag and have them mounted up to test.


Where did you get them from?


----------



## Guest (Feb 28, 2015)

RockyJo1 said:


> Where did you get them from?


I posted earlier in this thread about that. I am visiting the UK for work for 3 weeks and saw a place over here Sideways Cycles got a shipment of them so I emailed him and had them shipped to my Hotel.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

ebnash said:


> I posted earlier in this thread about that. I am visiting the UK for work for 3 weeks and saw a place over here Sideways Cycles got a shipment of them so I emailed him and had them shipped to my Hotel.


I remember now. Just checked $160 Canadian each.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

anortherncrazy said:


> Just picked up a pair of liteskin 4.0's from my LBS. Got lucky. They're shipping OE....


Nice Crazy ! Interesting to hear if the OEM tyres are the same as the "soon to be" production tyres.

I know a lot of the time that Schwalbe tyres that come OEM on full builds eg Giants, Merida ect are slightly different in rubber and weight than the single bought production tyres.

You would surely think that with the small volume of fat tyres and OEM full builds, that they would be the same, not as if its worth making them cheaper as its nowhere near the scale of the big brand full builds.

Let us know of the weigh in ? Your answer will rest the minds of those picking up OE tyres.

Cheers


----------



## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

Liteskin 4.0's set up tubeless on 65mm Nexties. Crazy lite. No specifics on tire weight. Only know that the bike is sub 25 pounds. Just picked it up 30 minutes ago..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

RockyJo1 said:


> I remember now. Just checked $160 Canadian each.


Liteskin 4.8s for $123 Canadian at Chain Reaction.


----------



## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

anortherncrazy said:


> Liteskin 4.0's set up tubeless on 65mm Nexties. Crazy lite. No specifics on tire weight. Only know that the bike is sub 25 pounds. Just picked it up 30 minutes ago..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


schwing!


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

They look fat for a 4" tyre... on 65's too.


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

likin the looks of the side knobs. the important ones. for all conditions.

rog


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Ok... just ordered a set of the 4.8" liteskins, need the volume for this years Desert race. Hope the casing is good... cant be any worse than the non-tech floppy rubber bag tyres we are all riding at the moment. 

At 54€ each (78$au) they are similar priced to Racing Ralphs for my MTBs. Would never have guessed that with a Schwalbe fat tyre.


----------



## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

ebnash said:


> Received the Jumbo Jim 26X4.8 Liteskin in the mail yesterday. They seem pretty light in weight, but the sidewalls are pretty standard thickness, feel just like my Hand Dampf and I have beat the **** out of those with never a burp or sidewall tear. Not what I would call a minimalistic tire by any means so I'm not sure the extra weight of the Snakeskin is even necessary. Only riding for them a bit will tell the truth. Will be at least 2 weeks before I am home, over the jet lag and have them mounted up to test.


Hans Dampf don't come in Liteskin either if I'm not mistaken - second guessing my ordering of Snakeskin TL Easy versions now... perhaps the Lites are going to be reliable enough, particularly for exclusively snow usage?


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

arc said:


> Liteskin 4.8s for $123 Canadian at Chain Reaction.


Out of Stock
Due 11/04/2015


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

newmarketrog said:


> likin the looks of the side knobs. the important ones. for all conditions.


But kinda far apart no?


----------



## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

RockyJo1 said:


> Out of Stock
> Due 11/04/2015


NOVEMBER 4?? As in 8 months from now?? Dang!


----------



## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

ozzybmx said:


> They look fat for a 4" tyre... on 65's too.


Yeah they're pretty meaty for a 4.0 tire. I like the compound as well feels like they're more tacky that the D4's I had and they roll better too. Did I say light!?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

slabber said:


> second guessing my ordering of Snakeskin TL Easy versions now... perhaps the Lites are going to be reliable enough, particularly for exclusively snow usage?


Its only 100g... per tyre... near haffa pound !

The first time I put a stick through mine, I'll be wishing I went snakeskin


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

HotHead said:


> NOVEMBER 4?? As in 8 months from now?? Dang!


I would hazard a guess at April 11, maybe?


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

MaximumX said:


> I would hazard a guess at April 11, maybe?


Yep, D/M/Y


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

matto6 said:


> But kinda far apart no?


so long as they grab.....

rog


----------



## Guest (Mar 3, 2015)

slabber said:


> Hans Dampf don't come in Liteskin either if I'm not mistaken - second guessing my ordering of Snakeskin TL Easy versions now... perhaps the Lites are going to be reliable enough, particularly for exclusively snow usage?


Just my opinion mind you. Means really nothing until I get home to ride them and see if they hold up. Mind you, I did not choose Liteskins, they chose me as that is all they had and I'm impatient. 😬


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> The first time I put a stick through mine, I'll be wishing I went snakeskin


Exactly. Pissed.


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I've ordered a 4" liteskin - that picture above sold it to me - they look pretty big on a 65mm rim - which is what mine will be going on - slightly concerned about the tread though! Looking forward to trying these in our drying conditions here in the UK


----------



## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

FWIW, I bought a Felt DoubleDee30 and weighed the tires; 1090g on one, 1048g on the other.

4" Liteskin - a bit heavier than advertised.


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

DHL
dropped
this
off
today....

260mm

1190grams
ordered
sunday
delivered
thursday
from
UK
IMPRESSIVE
ChainReactionCycles!:thumbsup::eekster:


----------



## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Forged1 said:


> DHL
> dropped
> this
> off
> ...


Your tire actual weight was 1190g?


----------



## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Impressive.


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

1190.7grams
exactly
on
my
scale.


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Forged1 said:


> 1190.7grams
> exactly
> on
> my
> scale.


Cool. 
Thanks 
for
confirming. 
😁


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

matto6 said:


> Cool.
> Thanks
> for
> confirming.
> 


:thumbsup:


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

*mounted-70mm-whisky*


----------



## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

just ordered a Jumbo Jim 4 liteskin at my lbs. The pricing is impressive, even without my team discount. under $120, which is hard to believe, considering that's not far off of what they charge for their regular tires... I'll know on tuesday whether they're available or if I'll have to wait.


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

Forged1 said:


>


This is 4.8" one?


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

YES,4.8
liteskin


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Lookin good Forged1 ! Cant wait to drop a kilo off my tyres, I like my 4.8s, but Buds but at 1650g are a hefty lump of rubba.


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanx
Ozzy,
can't
wait
to
get
out
on
the
trail!
:thumbsup:


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

When are we getting some reviews of these with comparison to other tires? That tread is seriously sparse... How well does this bad boy work on the trails?


----------



## Big Foot (Oct 16, 2006)

Where is the 4.0 Jumbo Jim snake skin or lite skin in stock?


----------



## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

I agree that it looks sparse but Schwalbe does well enough with their other tires that I doubt they'd bring a sub-par offering to market.


----------



## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Why
Are
People
Typing
Like
This?


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Its
the
new
Hipster
trend,
fatbikes
are
so
yesterday,
one
word
per
line
is
where
it's 
at.


----------



## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

Big Foot said:


> Where is the 4.0 Jumbo Jim snake skin or lite skin in stock?


There are none in stock yet, only the 4.8 lite skin has arrived.


----------



## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

So looking at the true tire sizes, this falls right in line with Bud and Lou, in both volume and width. They are tires with different intentions though.

A bit smaller in volume than the Chao 4.9, which is ~267mm+, and similar in width. JJ is 350 grams lighter, and has bigger cornering knobs that wrap more over the edge. Price advantage to the Chao.

Curious to see how this high volume, fast roller segment does in the long run. Practically speaking, the places you need high volume also benefit from more aggressive tread. This surely won't challenge bud and Lou for all out winter traction.


----------



## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

This looks like a summer tire to me. Dirt, sand, loose conditions, but not mud or muck or snow. Fast rolling. XC conditions rather than gnarly rock gardens. Like a BFL but a bit more aggressive.


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I
Agree
Allmountin
I
am
skeptical
of
JJ
in
all
but
groomed
snow
conditions
but
for
all
my
other
needs
i
am
really
hopeful.
hard
to
beat
bud&lou
for
nasty
conditions


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

sorry
for
the
broken
spacebar
guys!:skep:


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

got my hands on one of these at NAHBS yesterday. Definitely summer tread, but a little bit different than the ramped knobs like you find on Husker Du, Chao, FatB, etc. Looks like the squared knobs will give a bit more bite, and the wide spacing is part of what keeps weight down.


----------



## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Forged1 said:


> sorry
> for
> the
> broken
> ...


It's been broken since September last year.

Cute gimmick, but really. :nono:


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I'llkeepquiettilligetanewlaptopthen


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
wont
work
Minitrail
Thanks
though


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

ctrl-v is your friend... ;-)

Just copy a space and then paste it in between words.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Ilikeitthisway.


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

ThanksSpaceguys!
Just kidding that works you guys are the best and wetpaint will be less of a sour puss now 
LOL


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

bObyoumadebeercomeoutofmynose!LOL
maybe the beer will fix my keyboard?


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

My 4.8" lite Skin arrived today.

The bad, man am I disappointed - it weighs 1320g !!! Aaaarg - I normally ask the retailer to send me the lightest one they have, but this time I forgot  . 

The good, this has been the easiest tyre to mount up, and it is certainly the roundest truest tyre I've ever owned - this is a quality tyre. 

Initial impressions are very positive. On the trails, I've only managed a quick 1 hour spin tonight, on fairly straight easy dry trails , wow - it spins up really fast, rolls really well and compares very well with a HUDU, but with the advantage of being a 4.8” tyre. I would say it's nearly as wide as Bud, but not quite as tall. Tomorrow's night ride will be in the woods, with very twisty rooty trails, I can't wait to see how it goes!


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

Quick update - I spent 3 hrs on it tonight in dry twisty rooty woodsy single track - simply the best fat tyre I've ridden, no question. If it was 100g lighter, as it should be......... Anyhow, Schwalbe have offered to warranty the tyre, as it is so heavy, which is great service from them.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I just weighed a pair..1176/1240.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

rjedoaks said:


> I just weighed a pair..1176/1240.


Which ones?


----------



## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Futon River Crossing said:


> Quick update - I spent 3 hrs on it tonight in dry twisty rooty woodsy single track - simply the best fat tyre I've ridden, no question. If it was 100g lighter, as it should be......... Anyhow, Schwalbe have offered to warranty the tyre, as it is so heavy, which is great service from them.


Wow, now that's customer service!


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

RockyJo1 said:


> Which ones?


 4.8 LiteSkin. The same tire Futon is referring to.


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Futon River Crossing said:


> Quick update - I spent 3 hrs on it tonight in dry twisty rooty woodsy single track - simply the best fat tyre I've ridden, no question. If it was 100g lighter, as it should be......... Anyhow, Schwalbe have offered to warranty the tyre, as it is so heavy, which is great service from them.


What other tires are you comparing it to when you say it's the best?

That's awesome they replaced it under warranty!


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

matto6 said:


> What other tires are you comparing it to when you say it's the best?
> 
> That's awesome they replaced it under warranty!


5 years experience. In order of acquisition:

Endomorph
Larry
Big fat Larry 
Nate
HUDU ultra lite 
Knard 3"
Bud
Jumbo Jim

I don't think I've left any out


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Interesting I have 2 brand new Nobby Nics that are 80 grams a piece over. Maybe I should contact them.


----------



## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Futon River Crossing said:


> Endomorph
> Larry
> Big fat Larry
> Nate
> ...


Wow that's quite the list!!! I'm curious how it rates in traction compared to the HUDU, and why you liked it more?

I was originally dead set on the jumbo Jim but was concerned the giant gaps would compromise traction relative to a hudo or fat-b-nimble.


----------



## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

matto6 said:


> Wow that's quite the list!!! I'm curious how it rates in traction compared to the HUDU, and why you liked it more?
> 
> I was originally dead set on the jumbo Jim but was concerned the giant gaps would compromise traction relative to a hudo or fat-b-nimble.


Oh I would say it has much more grip than a HUDU, but has the cushioning of a 4.8" tyre. When I get my replacement tyre, it will be even better  Personally, I never felt that the HUDU had that much grip compared to Nate or Bud, but I was prepared to make that sacrifice for the benefits of nimble steering and increased acceleration and just a more lively ride overall. Now I don't need to make that compromise. The JJ is still untested in mud - so it may have weakness there?


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Interesting I have 2 brand new Nobby Nics that are 80 grams a piece over. Maybe I should contact them.


Schwalbe customer service is now in Eau Claire, WI. I will give you the address to sent them to. :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

Looks like I'll order a set 

Thanks for all the great info!


----------



## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

Wow, got an alert from QBP they were in stock. Went to look and they were all gone already. Not sure I want a pair, have not heard great things, but the weight makes things tempting. What I have heard/read is in snow, may be a good summer tire, although may not be very tough.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Logantri said:


> Not sure I want a pair, have not heard great things, but the weight makes things tempting. What I have heard/read is in snow, may be a good summer tire, although may not be very tough.


Its not a snow tire...pretty obvious. Thats like basing your opinion of a R-Comp tire on its cold weather performance. Doh


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> Its not a snow tire...pretty obvious. Thats like basing your opinion of a R-Comp tire on its cold weather performance. Doh


Jshonda, how do you know its not a snow tyre... that's like basing you opinion on... errr nothing, coz you haven't tried it.

I'm waiting on mine as a sand race tyre... wish I'd asked you before laying the cash out. How is it for sand ?

Its great to have these valid opinions on these new tyres, coz that will save me a **** load of cash rather than trying them myself.


----------



## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

For a feather weight rider on flattish terrain, I'm sure it would be a great flotation tire for snow. Hard time seeing it gripping on the hills. I love these tires for the sand, based on my extensive seat time, in front of computer screen, eating cheesy puffs.


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

ozzybmx said:


> Jshonda, how do you know its not a snow tyre... that's like basing you opinion on... errr nothing, coz you haven't tried it.
> 
> I'm waiting on mine as a sand race tyre... wish I'd asked you before laying the cash out. How is it for sand ?
> 
> Its great to have these valid opinions on these new tyres, coz that will save me a **** load of cash rather than trying them myself.


From me glancing at it, I'd say due to the really far spaced lugs. One of the few hands-on reviews I could find said it was really lacking on snow.


----------



## Logantri (Mar 31, 2004)

Yeah, not sure how you know this is a summer tire besides opinion. I wanted a set for snow until I heard from 2 people whom I trust that they kinda blow for snow. The weight makes me fearful they won't last long in rocks which is why I will let others plunk down the cash and try them out. Schwalbes don't have the greatest reputation for durability.


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

I guess what I object to are the blanket statements that X tire is bad on snow. Snow is such a variable surface. For the riding I do Nate, Bud and Lou suck because they have so much resistance. So I could say they suck on snow, because for me they do. But clearly on other types of snow they are great. So qualifiers would be helpful, especially for new riders who are trying to figure out what is going to work best for them.


----------



## TBerntson (Nov 3, 2010)

Schwalbes don't claim to be durable for their lightweight tires. Not sure why people complain about this when Schwalbe's own website has disclaimers all over it. This may, or may not, be a good winter tire. You generally don't have to worry about rocks, sticks, roots and such in the winter, so having having a less durable sidewall may not be as much of an issue as it is in the summer, although using them frequently at ultra-low pressures may not be the best for them. Time will tell.


----------



## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

TBerntson said:


> Schwalbes don't claim to be durable for their lightweight tires. Not sure why people complain about this when Schwalbe's own website has disclaimers all over it.


Schwalbe's durability rating for this tire is shown as 4 out of 5 on their website, which puts it at the high end of the scale among their other MTB tires.


----------



## TBerntson (Nov 3, 2010)

SmooveP said:


> Schwalbe's durability rating for this tire is shown as 4 out of 5 on their website, which puts it at the high end of the scale among their other MTB tires.


Good point, but I would assume the liteskin is less durable than the snakeskin, even though the two aren't differentiated on the website. That said, I was referring to the general complaints I hear about their lite mtb tires, since we can't yet comment on the durability of their fat tires. The mtb's have a low durability ratings and have warnings about their lack of puncture protection and durability.

Plus, these tires ARE meant for snow....whether they are any good, I don't know. The two comments I've heard about their performance are the 4.8's roll kinda slow (but this may have been greatly affected by temps - cold - and low pressure), and the 4's grip in snow wasn't great. I haven't tried them yet, so I don't know.


----------



## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

TBerntson said:


> Good point, but I would assume the liteskin is less durable than the snakeskin, even though the two aren't differentiated on the website. That said, I was referring to the general complaints I hear about their lite mtb tires, since we can't yet comment on the durability of their fat tires. The mtb's have a low durability ratings and have warnings about their lack of puncture protection and durability.
> 
> Plus, these tires ARE meant for snow....whether they are any good, I don't know. The two comments I've heard about their performance are the 4.8's roll kinda slow (but this may have been greatly affected by temps - cold - and low pressure), and the 4's grip in snow wasn't great. I haven't tried them yet, so I don't know.


Yeah, I don't know how "honest" their ratings are, but they go as low as a "1" for the Furious Fred. Maybe a "5" rating in Schwalbe world is like being crowned the world's tallest midget.

Please people, start beating on these tires so we can have some good, solid anecdotal evidence to argue about!


----------



## simple1 (Mar 12, 2015)

sryanak said:


> I guess what I object to are the blanket statements that X tire is bad on snow. Snow is such a variable surface. For the riding I do Nate, Bud and Lou suck because they have so much resistance. So I could say they suck on snow, because for me they do. But clearly on other types of snow they are great. So qualifiers would be helpful, especially for new riders who are trying to figure out what is going to work best for them.


Well said.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

You would think that liteskin/snakeskin is at least some tyre technology with some degree of protection. Has to be more resistant than the big ole rubber bags we have been riding.


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Where does it say they are specifically meant for snow?


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

XJaredX said:


> Where does it say they are specifically meant for snow?


I believe that was a misquote off a French website.?


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

RockyJo1 said:


> I believe that was a misquote off a French website.?


To be fair, it's in the first line of the tire description.
" Bigger is better.*This is especially true if you want to cycle in
deep snow or loose sand."
I guess you you say they strongly implied it....


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

ETA at QBP for 4" SnakeSkins is late april, for anyone wondering. I'm ok with that since I have a wheel build that I'm spreading out the cash from now til then


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Looks like Evans Cycle in the UK has the 4.8's in stock.

$88 USD each

Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Evo LiteSkin 26" Fat Bike Tyre | Evans Cycles

Looks like free shipping as well.

Good luck!


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Swerny said:


> Looks like Evans Cycle in the UK has the 4.8's in stock.
> 
> $88 USD each
> 
> ...


2	Decrease quantityIncrease quantity Remove item We currently only have 1 of this item in stock


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

RockyJo1 said:


> 2	Decrease quantityIncrease quantity Remove item We currently only have 1 of this item in stock


someone bought one then as there were at least 2 when i made my last post


----------



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

i got one


----------



## mtuck1 (Apr 13, 2009)

tfinator said:


> To be fair, it's in the first line of the tire description.
> " Bigger is better.*This is especially true if you want to cycle in
> deep snow or loose sand."
> I guess you you say they strongly implied it....


I spoke with someone in their booth at NAHBS and he said that their research determined tall knobs were not necessary for snow. My feeling is that is absolutely the case with some snow situations but taller knobs are often more effective in deep loose snow than short ones. There is certainly no rolling resistance penalty in deep loose snow using tall knobs. I feel like this is going to be a great sand tire and very effective on many other surfaces as well. The reality is there is no one perfect tire for every surface but this tire looks like it may be very effective on a lot of different surfaces.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I am guessing the person at NAHBS was either from Florida, or an imposter from a different company (maybe Espen trying to defend the snowshoe?)


----------



## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

Evans still got that 1 tire. Bike24 don't have a clue when in stock.


----------



## Antonio3z (Oct 22, 2014)

Dears,

Does anybody know if the 4.80 on a 70mm rim which is about 113mm wide could fit in a On-One Fatty frame?? since the Fatty is only 170mm rear hub spaced, I need more floating capabilities and I've been waiting for these tyres for a long time!

Thanks a lot


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> I am guessing the person at NAHBS was either from Florida, or an imposter from a different company (maybe Espen trying to defend the snowshoe?)


This smacks of maligning someone without a shred of proof. Whether or not you say "maybe", it's still a form of character assassination. The least you could have done was not name Espen, as he's done about as much as anyone for this forum.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Bumpyride said:


> This smacks of maligning someone without a shred of proof. Whether or not you say "maybe", it's still a form of character assassination. The least you could have done was not name Espen, as he's done about as much as anyone for this forum.


You need to NOT take life so seriously, I mean seriously


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

bdundee said:


> You need to NOT take life so seriously, I mean seriously.


We all read things differently. I respect your opinion to read it one way, but there are other ways that people read things, so naming someone personally might stick in someone's mind as a mark against them.

I would have no problem with the following statement, (I am guessing the person at NAHBS was either from Florida, or an imposter from a different company ), but naming Espen was not in good form.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Bumpyride said:


> We all read things differently. I respect your opinion to read it one way, but there are other ways that people read things, so naming someone personally might stick in someone's mind as a mark against them.
> 
> I would have no problem with the following statement, (I am guessing the person at NAHBS was either from Florida, or an imposter from a different company ), but naming Espen was not in good form.


Obviously you weren't around during the Snowshoe fiasco, I thought it was kinda funny.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Obviously you weren't around during the Snowshoe fiasco, I thought it was kinda funny.


I missed that.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Bumpyride said:


> I missed that.


It sucks when you are out of the loop.

:smallviolin:


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## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

After about three weeks of owning these tires and putting them thru the paces, here's what I've come up with. Great for hardpack snow and dirt, crummy in mud. In loose snow they're ok. Overall, I'm happy with the tire as they're my choice for a summer tire. The compound feels a lot more tacky than the D4's I had before. They roll pretty good as well. 

























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

anortherncrazy said:


> After about three weeks of owning these tires and putting them thru the paces, here's what I've come up with. Great for hardpack snow and dirt, crummy in mud. In loose snow they're ok. Overall, I'm happy with the tire as they're my choice for a summer tire. The compound feels a lot more tacky than the D4's I had before. They roll pretty good as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are these the 4.0 or 4.8? thanks.


----------



## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

4.0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

anortherncrazy said:


> 4.0
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks and your review of these tires is helpful as i'm planning to buy a pair of 4.0 Jumbo Jim for trail use. By the way, did you happen to weigh your tires before installing it?


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## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

You bet man. No I didn't weigh them unfortunately but they're pretty damn light. I'm very happy with the tire though. Rode another 17 miles today and for what I'm riding, around 10 psi was the sweet spot for me. Next winter, I'm gonna run either the 4.8s or the D5s on 100mm rims. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

JJ4.8/Mulefat 80 measure 4.25/ 15 psi. First time tubeless here, very easy. 
Edit/ after 2 weeks another measurement. 
4.5 knob to knob

Pedaling


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Nice looking setup...but you got some wheel builders steaming with that tire/wheel alignment.


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## Stopbreakindown (Jun 27, 2011)

Mulefut sticker delete would be my next move


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> JJ4.8/Mulefat 80 measure 4.25/ 15 psi. First time tubeless here, very easy.
> 
> Pedaling


nice. may I know where did you purchased your JJ 4.8 and are there any JJ 4.0 available?

thanks.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2015)

rjedoaks said:


> JJ4.8/Mulefat 80 measure 4.25/ 15 psi. First time tubeless here, very easy.
> 
> Pedaling


Pretty disappointing measurement result. I have a pair of Mulefut's and purchased JJ4.8's but have yet to put them on due to lack of time. Based on your measurement result, I don't think I am going to actually mount these tires. I currently have Maxxis Mammoth 4.0's that measure just at 100mm on my Mulefut's so not much to gain there other than a larger diameter that will just make my 1st gear less effective.

Glad you are happy with the tires and I am thankful to see this post. JJ's might be for sale now. Brand new, never mounted.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I have a knee tendinitis that has taken way to long to heal. Still a couple months out before any riding. Originally I had Bud's but was reluctant to run tubeless being a heavyweight. When I was able to grab the JJ's (ChainReaction) I figured I'd give tubeless a shot. Sold the Bud's as new. I really made the switch because of the ease of TL. Weight savings was a bonus. To seat Bud properly w/ tubes took 30 psi and they were huge. Aired them down to 10 they are about the same as the JJ. 
Logos?


Pedaling


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

Has anyone had both Ground Control Fat and Jumbo Jim? Curious to know how they compare size wise, mounted.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Just weighed my new JJ's 4.8 Lite Skins... 1305g & 1356g for those who care.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> Just weighed my new JJ's 4.8 Lite Skins... 1305g & 1356g for those who care.


Ouch aren't they supposed to be 1190 gr for the Lite skin? If so that would put the Snake Skin (1290gr claimed) pretty close to a Ground Control.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> Ouch aren't they supposed to be 1190 gr for the Lite skin? If so that would put the Snake Skin (1290gr claimed) pretty close to a Ground Control.


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## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

my JJ 4.9 LS was in 1190g range


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Check at my LBS today on an availability date September 4.8 $225 each.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

RockyJo1 said:


> Check at my LBS today on an availability date September 4.8 $225 each.


I'll sell you a new one for about half that!


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

RockyJo1 said:


> .....availability date September ......


13 months since the announcement. Maybe next winter.:skep:


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

jpfurn said:


> I'll sell you a new one for about half that!


Thanks but I'll wait for 2.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

RockyJo1 said:


> Thanks but I'll wait for 2.


I haven't bought anything from these guys, but they've had 4.8 liteskins in stock for a while. Note the expected available date on the 4.0 and snakeskin tires.

SCHWALBE JUMBO JIM MTB 26"


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> View attachment 981264


Bummer was hoping to shave a pound or so when I switch to JJ 4.8 TL, looks like I'll stick with the GC's until they are well worn. May actually be lighter than the JJ's once the knobs get worn...


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

arc said:


> I haven't bought anything from these guys, but they've had 4.8 liteskins in stock for a while. Note the expected available date on the 4.0 and snakeskin tires.
> 
> SCHWALBE JUMBO JIM MTB 26"


Thanks bookmarked but $80 shipping to Canada is a bit steep.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Paochow said:


> Bummer was hoping to shave a pound or so when I switch to JJ 4.8 TL, looks like I'll stick with the GC's until they are well worn. May actually be lighter than the JJ's once the knobs get worn...


300 grams per tire if the weight is correct.


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

highonbikes.com has the 4.8 in stock. I purchased two of them @ roughly $86 per tire. They are in the UK so shipping is a bit pricey and a PITA to wait for. Out the door I paid $218 shipped. Great customer service would buy another pair in a heart beat.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Archangel6 said:


> highonbikes.com has the 4.8 in stock. I purchased two of them @ roughly $86 per tire. They are in the UK so shipping is a bit pricey and a PITA to wait for. Out the door I paid $218 shipped. Great customer service would buy another pair in a heart beat.


Thanks a little better on the shipping 270 total Canadian.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

RockyJo1 said:


> 300 grams per tire if the weight is correct.


The poster above had said the 4.8 Lite Skins were 1305g & 1356g. Assuming his scale is accurate that would put the TL snake skins in the 1400gr range which is pretty close to the 1450 ish GC's. Granted it is all speculation until the 4.8 Snake Skins hit the streets.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> The poster above had said the 4.8 Lite Skins were 1305g & 1356g. Assuming his scale is accurate that would put the TL snake skins in the 1400gr range which is pretty close to the 1450 ish GC's. Granted it is all speculation until the 4.8 Snake Skins hit the streets.


I will weigh on a professionally calibrated scale tomorrow and take a pic


----------



## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> I will weigh on a professionally calibrated scale tomorrow and take a pic


Cool-thanks!


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

I did not use a calibrated scale, but my 4.8 Liteskins were 1270 and 1290ish.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Sorry, picture could have been better but it is 1306g and this is the lighter of the 2.


----------



## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

That sucks! If the Snake Skins are supposed to be 100gr more, they will likely be very close to my GC's. Was hoping this would be an easy way to shed some rotating weight. Thanks for taking the time to post the pic!


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Sorry the pics are flipped. The 4.8 @ 10psi on ML(65mm):

Width= 4.338" (110mm) 
Height= 29.875" (758mm)


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

jpfurn said:


> View attachment 981408
> View attachment 981409
> 
> 
> ...


Same size has my Bulldozers.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Tubeless setup?


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> ^Tubeless setup?


Nope, there was a tube involved!


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

jpfurn said:


> Nope, there was a tube involved!


No wonder.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> No wonder.


I was actually impressed with how big these are on a ML! They roll even nicer on hardpack/pavement then my D5 and still lighter. It gives the added BB height I like having as well!


----------



## RickyB (Jul 6, 2004)

I mounted up JJ 4.8 on a Nextie 90mm rim, measured 113mm wide, weighed 1330 grams. By comparison, the 4.7 Bulldozer it was replacing was 108mm wide, and not quite tall. I'm running JJ 4.8 on the front with a Bluto, but since my frame is a 170 Fatback, this pushed the rear too far. The bigger JJ rubs the seat stays, and is just starting to kiss the chain. So, it's back to the Bulldozer in the rear. I'm running 1x10 with 42 tooth Wolftooth, with no issues.


----------



## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

I have mine on the stock 80mm wheels that came on my Lurch and they couldn't fit better. I'm running 1x10 w30t up front with no interference whatsoever.


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

I gave up on them ordered some Maxxis ones.


----------



## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

I gave up on waiting for the 4.0 and got a Panaracer Fat B Nimble. I'm happy with it.


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Gigantic said:


> I gave up on waiting for the 4.0 and got a Panaracer Fat B Nimble. I'm happy with it.


do they measure up smaller than a 3.8 knard? i wouldn't want to drop my bb height any. luckily going from 80mm rims to 65's raised my bb height enough where pedal strikes are mostly a long lost phenomenon.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

newmarketrog said:


> do they measure up smaller than a 3.8 knard? i wouldn't want to drop my bb height any. luckily going from 80mm rims to 65's raised my bb height enough where pedal strikes are mostly a long lost phenomenon.


they're probably smaller. On a 65mm rim, they measure 3.5" wide and gave me an additional 6mm clearance from the top of my tire to the crown, which for me was a good thing as I was having tire rub on my lefty crown when the stanchion was compressed. ymmv.


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Gigantic said:


> they're probably smaller. On a 65mm rim, they measure 3.5" wide and gave me an additional 6mm clearance from the top of my tire to the crown, which for me was a good thing as I was having tire rub on my lefty crown when the stanchion was compressed. ymmv.


thank you. i'm gonna go measure my knards.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Where the heck are you all getting your Jumbo Jims? I've been looking to get a set of 4" folders for summer tires but have not found any in stock anywhere.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

newmarketrog said:


> thank you. i'm gonna go measure my knards.


That just sounds wrong.


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

sryanak said:


> Where the heck are you all getting your Jumbo Jims? I've been looking to get a set of 4" folders for summer tires but have not found any in stock anywhere.


Highonbikes.com is where I purchased my 4.8" Jims. Unfortunately, they didn't have 4.0"'s in stock.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

RockyJo1 said:


> I gave up on them ordered some Maxxis ones.


Good call, this is the response I received when I asked Universal about availability today:

We aren't expecting those until November 1, 2015.

Have a good day,

Schmitty, Universal Cycles
[email protected]
(800) 936 5156
Universal Cycles - The Largest Selection of Road and Mountain Bike Parts


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

I found another place; hopefully they come through! I ordered them two months ago - and the price was cheap (129 euro for the pair, shipped to USA). I recently checked in to see when they expected them and got this reply:



> Hi Scot,
> 
> the expected delivery time for Schwalbe Jumbo Jim evolution LiteSkin PaceStar Folding model 2015 black-26x4,8 has changed to probably the 15.05.2015.
> 
> ...


----------



## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

joeduda said:


> Good call, this is the response I received when I asked Universal about availability today:
> 
> We aren't expecting those until November 1, 2015.
> 
> ...


I should have stated that this is for the 4.0 version.


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

sryanak said:


> Where the heck are you all getting your Jumbo Jims? I've been looking to get a set of 4" folders for summer tires but have not found any in stock anywhere.


I don't think I've sen anyone on this thread with 4.0" models yet. I was lucky enough to be traveling in the UK for work a couple months ago and a shop in England had the 4.8" models so I scooped em up.

I'm afraid you'll be waiting on the 4" models because I haven't seen them show up outside of the US either.


----------



## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

joeduda said:


> Good call, this is the response I received when I asked Universal about availability today:
> 
> We aren't expecting those until November 1, 2015.
> 
> ...


So 8 months after they first announced them projected delivery is still 7 months out? Good on Panasonic for getting theirs out reasonably quickly.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

sryanak said:


> that just sounds wrong.


:blush::blush:


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Two come on my Carbon BuckSaw due here in a couple weeks....however, I'm not a fan of Schwalbe Tires, and I want to put Vanhelgas on my Buck....So I might have a set for sale when the BuckSaw arrives. I will keep those of you that like these tires posted.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

vack said:


> Two come on my Carbon BuckSaw due here in a couple weeks....however, I'm not a fan of Schwalbe Tires, and I want to put Vanhelgas on my Buck....So I might have a set for sale when the BuckSaw arrives. I will keep those of you that like these tires posted.


I'll take them

Marty-MJ
www.garagescene.net


----------



## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

I will keep you guys in the loop bike isn't here yet!


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

sryanak said:


> So 8 months after they first announced them projected delivery is still 7 months out?


Yes. The new S.O.P.
Of course you need to factor in that they gave away a ****-ton of them to any and everyone that was coming out with a new or custom frame over the past year. Almost every show queen I've seen since the announcement has had a pair on.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

sryanak said:


> So 8 months after they first announced them projected delivery is still 7 months out? Good on Panasonic for getting theirs out reasonably quickly.


Information i received was augustus/september 2015 for the JJ4.0. Staying with VanHelga's anyway.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

HDTVdevil said:


> Information i received was augustus/september 2015 for the JJ4.0. Staying with VanHelga's anyway.


So that means january 16' then.


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

newmarketrog said:


> So that means january 16' then.


If you get 1 of the 5 pairs available.


----------



## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I was looking for a 4.8 tire and was trying to find availability for JJ or Knard 4.8. I was really lucky to find a set of JJ last week at a pretty decent price from Chain Reaction (213 Can$, free shipping, will go up a bit with duty). 2 days earlier they were list B.O. and at the moment back to B.O again! Can't wait to try them on my Blackborow


----------



## Vighor (Jul 25, 2013)

I had JJs ordered to get a good tubeless set for trails to replace the Vee tires. Now got me a pair of Beists instead. When hose dont work its time to downside to vanHelga i guess


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I purchased a set from a dude on EBay buts its been about 5 days and no shippy yet. I'm thinkin he doesn't want to turn loose of em.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

If they ever arrive, throw them on a scale.


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## coastkid71 (Oct 21, 2008)

Loads available here in UK in 4.8, eBay and Charlie Bikemongers, set mine up on the Moonlander split tube as cannot be bothered with the faff of tape failing on the rims a few months down the line again, interested in price and Ghetto tubeless for no thorn or pinch flats

Moonlander Ghetto- split tubeless 008 by Bruce, on Flickr


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

coastkid71 said:


> Loads available here in UK in 4.8, eBay and Charlie Bikemongers, set mine up on the Moonlander split tube as cannot be bothered with the faff of tape failing on the rims a few months down the line again, interested in price and Ghetto tubeless for no thorn or pinch flats
> 
> Moonlander Ghetto- split tubeless 008 by Bruce, on Flickr


Good price on the tires but $500 Canadian shipping seems a bit high.


----------



## RickyB (Jul 6, 2004)

I had been running Bud / Bulldozer on my 170 Fatback, both fit fine. Bulldozer in the rear with a 1X drivetrain. Then I got greedy, ordered some 4.8 JJ's and the rear is hitting the seat stay. It's a much taller tire than Bulldozer. 

If anyone wants them, they've never been ridden, just mounted and unmounted. PM me and we'll work out something. I'm back to Nates for the summer now. 

Sidenote: I've got the 4" JJ on my Bucksaw, nice round profile, roll really nice. On par, or faster, than HuDu.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

1102 and 1148 grams 4.0 snakeskin version setup tubeless


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

fvcker.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

newmarketrog said:


> fvcker.


If it makes you feel any better I over paid


----------



## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I've received my 4.8: 1246 and 1277g. I'll try to mount them tubeless this week


----------



## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

bdundee said:


> If it makes you feel any better I over paid


ok, mebe just a lil bit


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

I already posted these pics a while ago on the other Jumbo Jim thread, but here they are in case someone missed it. The first one is the 4.0 vs 4.8 on a 65mm rim and the second is the weight of a JJ 4.0 LS. I love both tires sizes on my ML's. The 4.8 provides a little more traction and cushion. The 4.0's just straight up fly!


----------



## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

bdundee said:


> If it makes you feel any better I over paid


where did you get them?


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

I know your question was for B0b, but I got 2 sets of the 4.0's from new take off's. The LS from a Felt DD and the SS from the new carbon Bucksaw.


----------



## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Got my JJ from Charly the Bikemonger. 4.8" weight in 1185 and 1230. Going to try them to day.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Gigantic said:


> where did you get them?


Sorry dude just saw this, I unhappily overpaid for them from a dude who took them off his carbon BS.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Anyone have a bunch of miles on a set of these? How are the holding up?


----------



## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

RockyJo1 said:


> Anyone have a bunch of miles on a set of these? How are the holding up?


I have about 500 miles of riding on the 4.8 Liteskins. Fireroad, rooted and rocky singletrack with jumps and high speed hits. Also a bit on mixed pavement. I love these tires. They have awesome grip and look to be holding up very well with no cut treads or sidewall damage. No flats, no burps, no problems. Running tubeless on Mulefut rims with the Mulefut tubeless tape. A few cups of stans in each tire.

My only complaint is not related to this tire, but more towards fat tires in general. Although grips levels are really awesome in most situations, fat tires get really bad in marbles. If you think about it, you end up with more tire surface area to get up on marbles and distribute the weight. I prefer skinnies when conditions have loose rocks over firm dirt. On the fats, I can loose the front end at 5mph in a hairpin with marbles. Sketchy as ****.

All that being said, I have not touched any of my other bikes now since February when I got the Les Fat. I'm ready to start selling some of the other rides starting with the 20lb carbon full rigid 29er XC racer. The Les Fat is only 6 lbs heavier and 20X the fun.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

RockyJo1 said:


> Anyone have a bunch of miles on a set of these? How are the holding up?


I've been pushing these tires hard on the trails and have put a lot of miles on pavement exercising the hound. I've been switching back in forth between the 4 and 4.8 and thought it should be known the 4.8 has noticably taller knobs. They provide more grip and a slight hum on pavement compared to it's little brother. I had my first washout with the 4.0 while pushing hard in a corner on somewhat slick single track. I lost a little confindence but have a short memory. Still favorite summer tire for sure!


----------



## wrcRS (Nov 14, 2010)

I know a few people that have tried the 4.0's and the opinions are pretty much the same. All took the tires off after a couple rides. 

Might make it easy to get some take off's for cheap if you want to try them.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

wrcRS said:


> I know a few people that have tried the 4.0's and the opinions are pretty much the same. All took the tires off after a couple rides.
> 
> Might make it easy to get some take off's for cheap if you want to try them.


I got my 4.0's off a guys that never even tried them. One was Clydesdale that wanted a 4.8 and another that worked for a competitor tire company so had no choice. What are the reason the riders you know ditching them?


----------



## wrcRS (Nov 14, 2010)

jpfurn said:


> I got my 4.0's off a guys that never even tried them. One was Clydesdale that wanted a 4.8 and another that worked for a competitor tire company so had no choice. What are the reason the riders you know ditching them?


Slow rolling (with backup data from a local pro) and low levels of grip. Both of these in my mind point to the lack of knobbies both on the edges of the tire and center.


----------



## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

RockyJo1 said:


> Anyone have a bunch of miles on a set of these? How are the holding up?


I'm still diggin' mine. Had them(4.0 LS)since early March and I use the bike everyday(don't own a car). I still like them a lot for what I use them for, which is everything. Commuting, ride beaches, singletrack, snow, and you get the picture. This is my favorite tire for "everything". It's light, it has plenty of traction for most situations, and heck, I got them for a steal from my buddy that bought a Felt and opted for Van Helgas instead. Would not hesitate to buy them again. Been running them tubeless on Nextie 65mm rims since March. The compound is nice and tacky so they seem to wear faster than any other tire I've owned(Larrys, Knards, Hudus, D4s, Sterlings). I'm okay with that. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

wrcRS said:


> Slow rolling (with backup data from a local pro) and low levels of grip. Both of these in my mind point to the lack of knobbies both on the edges of the tire and center.


I run mine at 8 psi on the trails and on gravel road rides and am very happy with the grip. Could be my lack of confidence on other tires, but I am able to corner pretty hard with the 4.0's.

That said - I've never ridden any other tire on a fatbike as aggressively as I ride mine. What do you suggest as a good tire? I'm always willing to try new ones.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I local has the JJ w/ 65mm Nextie setup and loves them. He is coming off 3.8 Knards, and says the added traction and weight reduction are very noticable over the Knards.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

I run 4.0 on 65mm as well and have some 85mm wheels on the way I'd like to run year round. I'm going to try the 4.0's first but think the 4.8 is the overall better option. Anyone have 4.8's they'd trade for 4.0's if I decide to go that direction?


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

wrcRS said:


> Slow rolling (with backup data from a local pro) and low levels of grip. Both of these in my mind point to the lack of knobbies both on the edges of the tire and center.


My 4.0's seem to roll very fast, I'm only a pro in my own mind though. I do yell braaaaap coming out of every corner and that seems to help.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bdundee said:


> My 4.0's seem to roll very fast, I'm only a pro in my own mind though.


A local non-pro but very fast and weight aware rider loves them, and he is coming off of the fastest rolling dirt capable fat tire in production (knard).


----------



## GT lover (Aug 7, 2013)

If anyone has a pair of 4.0's that are in new condition for sale, I will buy them. Thanks!


----------



## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I got impatient and ordered some JJ 4.0s from overseas (why they aren't avail locally when bikes are sold with them spec'd, I have no idea). I got snakeskin, so 1114 and 1109 for weights.

Compared to the very worn Husker Du and Knard 3.8 that they replaced, they weighed a bit less and have much more aggressive knobs. Just got back from a quick shakedown ride, haven't ridden them on single track.

It seemed like asphalt would be the best place to compare rolling resistance/speed since it should be less of a factor in dirt or snow. When I ordered the tires I rode a local 16 mi, twisty, hilly path loop at 18.5mph avg. With the JJs, 18.5 again. So, if they're slower it can't be by much and my previous combo was pretty fast rolling.

Definitely could feel the larger off center knobs in corners (not an advantage on the path) but it may translate to an advantage on dirt or snow. I expect them to have better traction than what they're replacing.


----------



## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Curious where you got the 4.0's


----------



## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

I gave up and went back to the bulldozers.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

18.5 avg on any fat tire is damn impressive. I gave up on the Jumbo Jims also and went with the Maxxis 4.0. Roll really nice but I wont be averaging 18.5 mph anytime soon.


----------



## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

On the local tracks (45km with 70% unpaved or single-track), I average between 20 a day 22km/h when riding alone on my Mutz and VanHelga's. With my riding buddies it drops to 16-18km/h. On some downhills, topspeeds of 45-50 are possible. 

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

HDTVdevil said:


> On the local tracks (45km with 70% unpaved or single-track), I average between 20 a day 22km/h when riding alone on my Mutz and VanHelga's. With my riding buddies it drops to 16-18km/h. On some downhills, topspeeds of 45-50 are possible.
> 
> 18.5 mph was the avg, not km/h.


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Was riding with my brother last week. On asphalt. He was riding road bike and I on fb with JJ 4.8". 86 km. Average speed 26.5 km/t. He asked if I got a engine in the bike.---- yes, to legs.
average hart rate, 68 % of max pulse. I will say JJ roll good on asphalt. And helps that the fb weights 11.7 kg with bluto.


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

I was riding the other day with some guys that do a lot of EPO and they were struggling to keep up because I'm really fast and no one here can prove otherwise. I must have been averaging 45.3 mph because I also outran a rutting gazelle. Uphill.


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Talk to me when you can out sprint a cheetah.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Volsung said:


> I was riding the other day with some guys that do a lot of EPO and they were struggling to keep up because I'm really fast and no one here can prove otherwise. I must have been averaging 45.3 mph because I also outran a rutting gazelle. Uphill.


I call BS!
It was a false flat at best.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I bought them from an eBay seller out of England, I believe, just under $300 shipped to MN after the currency conversion.

The 18.5 mph avg was on asphalt, not dirt. The point was the consistency to the 1/10 with my other tires since people have asked about rolling resistance comparisons in this thread. This was the most consistent way I could think to compare them.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Sure are some xl helmet wearing excessively large penis doods hanging out in this thread. Time for me to move along, just not worthy


----------



## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

bdundee said:


> Sure are some xl helmet wearing excessively large penis doods hanging out in this thread. Time for me to move along, just not worthy


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Gigantic said:


>


Finally one that I know is true


----------



## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

RockyJo1 said:


> Talk to me when you can out sprint a cheetah.


:lol: :yesnod:


----------



## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Lol


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

frl said:


> Lol


x2!


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Just got back from a single track ride (I'll avoid any references to pace that may help provide context for the results ). They roll very well and definitely have better cornering traction than the Husker/Knard. Not faster in a straight line (really close) but that might partly be due to the brand new tire tackiness.

FWIW, my helmet size is M/L.


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## RickyB (Jul 6, 2004)

jpfurn said:


> Anyone have 4.8's they'd trade for 4.0's if I decide to go that direction?


I've got a pair of the Liteskins that I tried to squeeze on my Fatback, didn't work. Never been ridden, and would trade for some 4.0 take offs. Or I'll sell them to anyone looking to cover my costs.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

RickyB said:


> I've got a pair of the Liteskins that I tried to squeeze on my Fatback, didn't work. Never been ridden, and would trade for some 4.0 take offs. Or I'll sell them to anyone looking to cover my costs.


I sent you a PM, thanks


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

frl said:


> Was riding with my brother last week. On asphalt. He was riding road bike and I on fb with JJ 4.8". 86 km. Average speed 26.5 km/t. He asked if I got a engine in the bike.---- yes, to legs.
> average hart rate, 68 % of max pulse. I will say JJ roll good on asphalt. And helps that the fb weights 11.7 kg with bluto.


You're like...amazing.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Ferris Bueller You're my Hero!


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

frl said:


> average hart rate, 68 % of max pulse


That just sent another one to the hole.


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Got mine yesterday, super tyre, very low rolling resistance, even comapared to tha maxxis mammoth


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Nice looking ride, but man get the next frame size up already!


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Haha, no, this one fits me perfect


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## Minionbike (Dec 12, 2014)

ei, where did you order? i can't find any stocks online.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Novaterra said:


> Haha, no, this one fits me perfect


welll kudos to you for having the balls to ride a bike where the handlebar height is below the saddle. the dropper post generation couldn't even fathom that that. they'd be worried about going over the bars when approaching even the smallest little pebbles and pinecones. or any type of decline where the front wheel dipped below the level of the rear wheel, lol!!!


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

?????, ive never ridden a bike with the bars above the saddle, its not my grandpa's bike! 
Have you ever seen a xc bike?, or a sportsbike in common?? I think 90% of the sports bikes have the saddle above the bars


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Minionbike said:


> ei, where did you order? i can't find any stocks online.


On bikemarkt.de. 
A german bikebuilder has them on stock. Bike steel borrow i think his name was


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Novaterra said:


> ?????, ive never ridden a bike with the bars above the saddle, its not my grandpa's bike!
> Have you ever seen a xc bike?, or a sportsbike in common?? I think 90% of the sports bikes have the saddle above the bars


You obviously haven't spent nuff time on teh mtbr fowum


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Probably not, i spend my time riding, not trying to be a wise ass about complaining about someone's frame size, and not knowing how big or small i am, and only looking to size charts. 

Pleasy on topic from now on, has nothing to do with the super jumbo jim tyres.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Novaterra said:


> Probably not, i spend my time riding, not trying to be a wise ass about complaining about someone's frame size, and not knowing how big or small i am, and only looking to size charts.
> 
> Pleasy on topic from now on, has nothing to do with the super jumbo jim tyres.


dood, i ride plenty. many many hours a week. yer frames a size too small. you went with large cuz XL were not available. your bike setup tells the tale. folks should know what size to buy or not. too many folks on here buy or are considering buying the wrong size cuz many shops don't know how a bike should fit or their just trying to sell what they have in stock. a poor guy came in yesterday with a new kona taro that a shop down the streeet just sold him. he's 5'10 on a frickin small, lol. my gawd

how are the sidewalls holding up on the JJ's?


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

newmarketrog said:


> how are the sidewalls holding up on the JJ's?


Haha! Keeping it relative to the JJs at least.


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## chocolatemoeze (Jun 22, 2005)

I made them tubeless. Sidewalls are not completely airtight, so sealant is a must.

And they are a nightmare in mud, had a few crashes. 

But otherwise a great tire, lots of grip and really low rolling resistance, especially when tubeless.

Just saying...


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

For trail use - I'm still considering the jumbo jim 4" liteskin over the 45nrth husker du 4" as based on the weights that i'm reading - the former is lighter and a true 4" tire on an 80mm rim. The husker du is said to be only 3.8" on 80mm rim. Anyway, i guess these are 2 great tires for the trails.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

scottspark60 said:


> For trail use - I'm still considering the jumbo jim 4" liteskin over the 45nrth husker du 4"


I can tell you 100%, the casing on a liteskin is 10 times better than a rubber bag Hudu, I own 3 sets of HuDus, still have a set on the missus bike... awesome tyres, but technology has caught up on Surly/45NRTH, the liteskin is a great tyre, it pings twigs and sticks out of the way like a normal MTB tyre rather than spiking it.

Definitely go the JJ.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cant even imaging what the snakeskin tyre is like, must be bulletproof.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't have a liteskin to compare to, but the snakeskin definitely has some substance to it (impressive that it's only a 100g penalty, therefore strongly suggested for tubeless). My only concern was that additional sidewall stiffness may be a detriment to rolling speed at low winter pressures. I went for it anyway since said low winter pressures are very hard on the sidewalls with all the flex.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Hi guys. I know that the appropriate rim widths for a 4.8" JJ is either an 80, 90 or 100mm. But has anyone tried a surly marge lite 65mm rim with 4.8" JJ? Just asking as i want to lighter on the rims but a bit wider tires. Thanks.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Works great on whisky 70mm carbon rim, perfect rounded tire profile between 7-16 psi. I can't wait till more become available.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

cant wait to get my meat hooks on a pair of 4.0 jj snake skins for my marglites.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

scottspark60 said:


> Hi guys. I know that the appropriate rim widths for a 4.8" JJ is either an 80, 90 or 100mm. But has anyone tried a surly marge lite 65mm rim with 4.8" JJ? Just asking as i want to lighter on the rims but a bit wider tires. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I've got some miles on a 4.8/ML. It was my favorite summer combo to date till. Buy a set and throw them on your ML's. I loved the extra cush, BB height, and low rolling resistance!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

@jpfurn,

is it possible to see some photos of your Marge Lite and Jumbo Jim 4.8"? Just curious how this set-up looks. 

TIA.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

I think the jj's are perfect, think they roll better then the maxxis mammoth, and has a lot of grip, even in wet sand they didn't let me down, as long as you let the taller side knobs dig in the dirt. So far the best tire i've ridden


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

scottspark60 said:


> @jpfurn,
> 
> is it possible to see some photos of your Marge Lite and Jumbo Jim 4.8"? Just curious how this set-up looks.
> 
> ...


Scott, I posted some pics and measurements back on page 10. I think I posted another pic shortly after comparing the ML/4.8 vs ML/4.0 as well. Hope this helps, if not PM me.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

@jpfurn,

Thanks - i saw your photos on page 10. I'm convinced that i'll follow your ML/JJ 4.8 setup.

Cheers!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Pneu Fat bike Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26×4.0? | Monfat

They just sent my 4.0 liteskin ?


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## cardnation (Jul 2, 2014)

Any new leads on the 4.0 Jumbo Jim that will deliver to the US?

Really would love to get my hands on just one to test out.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

There is a seller on the bay now claiming he can get any size/casing. Located in US. 


Chris.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Another option for lightweight non-carbon wheels - JJ 4.0 or 4.8 + DT Swiss BR710 rims + Hope Fastno hubs + DT Swiss Revo or Comp spokes - setup tubeless.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

krzysiekmz said:


> There is a seller on the bay now claiming he can get any size/casing. Located in US.
> 
> Chris.


Got a link?


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

There is only 1 result for "Schwalbe Jumbo Jim" on eBay.

Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4 0 Liteskin Fat Bike Tire | eBay


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Shamis said:


> There is only 1 result for "Schwalbe Jumbo Jim" on eBay.
> 
> Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4 0 Liteskin Fat Bike Tire | eBay


In his listing it says he can get other JJ's. I messaged him about getting a pair of 4.0 Snakeskin and his response was...

"the 4.8 are about an extra $20 each and I can get them in about 4 days 
shipping time".

His reading comprehension skills could use some work.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Tunalic said:


> Bike24 says Schwalbe is currently saying they will not be delivered until the middle of March.


Did you ever get your JJ's from bike24? I'm tempted to order a set, but don't want to be waiting 6 months.


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

Paochow said:


> Did you ever get your JJ's from bike24? I'm tempted to order a set, but don't want to be waiting 6 months.


I have yet to get them.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Tunalic said:


> I have yet to get them.


Bummer, guess I'll keep looking for somewhere that has them in stock.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

See my link a few posts up.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

mortenste said:


> See my link a few posts up.


Product out of stock


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Feeling a bit sad here... just about to shave the knobs off my 4.8" JJ's for the Simpson Desert Race.

Thinking centre and mid knobs and a slight shaving of the side ones for a max of 4psi, dropping to 2psi min.

Its a small price considering the cash out laid for this 3500km round trip, with 1500km of that on the most inhospitable tracks in Australia, including the crazy Simpson Desert and the notorious Birdsville track.

Man them knobs feel and look good 

Just hoping bike24 come through with the "other" set soon


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

I just picked up my 4.0's last week and plan to mount them after today's ride

Marty-MJ
www.garagescene.net


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## cardnation (Jul 2, 2014)

ozzybmx said:


> Feeling a bit sad here... just about to shave the knobs off my 4.8" JJ's for the Simpson Desert Race.
> 
> Thinking centre and mid knobs and a slight shaving of the side ones for a max of 4psi, dropping to 2psi min.
> 
> ...


Did you happen to take measurements of them?

Curious how the 4.8" JJ stacks up against others in terms of size.


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## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

jeffw-13 said:


> In his listing it says he can get other JJ's. I messaged him about getting a pair of 4.0 Snakeskin and his response was...
> 
> "the 4.8 are about an extra $20 each and I can get them in about 4 days
> shipping time".
> ...


Got two snakeskin 4.0 off ebay about a month ago from the U.K. They each weigh about 1200 grams. Then I ordered some 4.0 Liteskins two weeks ago, also off ebay from a different seller (the one mentioned here) and they just arrived today, weighing in at 1040 grams and 1050 grams.

I mounted the liteskins on 90mm specialized rims and they actually look pretty good, not too stretched or short-sidewalled with good tread wrap even on the wider rims.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

*8/27/15 - Exactly one year after the announcment and this thread began.*

8/27/14-


uwprunner said:


> Does anyone have any info on availability?


1/3/15-


newmarketrog said:


> One of my distributors said mid month.


2/3/15-


SmooveP said:


> I emailed Schwalbe directly and was told "early spring" for the US.


Not picking on any one of you. Just for my own cathartic relief.

U.S.
Retail.
Do it.


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## elviiis (Aug 27, 2015)

Please can you measure width of Jumbo jim 4.0 on 65mm width rim?
Someone already tested on 47-8mm width rim?

thanks


----------



## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

elviiis said:


> Please can you measure width of Jumbo jim 4.0 on 65mm width rim?
> Someone already tested on 47-8mm width rim?
> 
> thanks


About 100 mm on my nexties 65mm.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

bme107 said:


> 8/27/14-
> 
> 1/3/15-
> 
> ...


When they were first announced I thought, "Great the perfect summer tire and they should be readily available for summer 2015." So maybe 2016?


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Stupid manufacturers keep buying them all up so they can advertise having a light weight bike. If you compare a Bud/lou equipped bike to a JJ bike you are looking at 1#+ difference.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> Stupid manufacturers keep buying them all up so they can advertise having a light weight bike. If you compare a Bud/lou equipped bike to a JJ bike you are looking at 1#+ difference.


More like 3lbs if you are talking about the 4.0 and 1.8lbs if switching to JJ 4.8!


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Paochow said:


> Stupid manufacturers keep buying them all up ......


Welcome to the world of fat bikes!
Are they selling them full retail to OEM's? Doubtful. We'd buy up so many at retail their head would spin.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

sryanak said:


> When they were first announced I thought, "Great the perfect summer tire and they should be readily available for summer 2015." So maybe 2016?


I consider the JJ, Schwalbe's Dirt Wizard.
There, I said it.


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## gecho (Apr 27, 2012)

My Moonlander has sat in the basement since the snow melted waiting for JJs since my only 4.8" tires are studded. I'll haul it up in September and so some trail and gravel riding with it. I finally saw the tire in person a few weeks ago at an LBS on a new shipment of fat bikes.


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

I still can't find these anywhere!


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

smileyboy said:


> I still can't find these anywhere!


I just asked Schwalbe USA. They said at least not until Spring, now. (Nice, quick customer service response, even if the tire is a complete tease.)

I was sure hoping to be able to get my hands on one before summer ended and the snow started flying. After waiting this long, I suppose it wouldn't be that much more painful to wait until next summer..... _IF_ there was any guarantee that it would happen even then!

So, hedging my bets in the meantime, what's the best, current _alternative_ recommendation? I was looking specifically at the JJ 4.8, as a fat front to go with a 29+ rear. I basically need:

- One of the _taller_ offerings available (ideally around 30" diameter or better);

- A non-gummy compound suitable for summer/dry trail use (unlike many of the V offerings for instance);

- Tread pattern that isn't overkill or too heavy (like Bud, for instance);

- That isn't so expensive that you'd only want to use it on snow (like my Dillinger 5s, for instance.)​
Probably a tall order. I don't follow the news regarding every new fat tire like I used to, and thus appreciate any suggestions.


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

iamkeith said:


> I just asked Schwalbe USA. They said at least not until Spring, now. (Nice, quick customer service response, even if the tire is a complete tease.)
> 
> I was sure hoping to be able to get my hands on one before summer ended and the snow started flying. After waiting this long, I suppose it wouldn't be that much more painful to wait until next summer..... _IF_ there was any guarantee that it would happen even then!
> 
> ...


I bought a set of Ground Controls because I'm in the same boat. I think they might be a great option for you as well!


----------



## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

I've been running the 27.5+ with the Panaracer Fat B Nimble and I am truly impressed with them. So much so I haven't mounted my 4.0 Jumbo Jim's because I may buy a set of 4.0 Fat B Nimbles's.

Marty-mj
www.garagescene.net www.syborgtwinturbo.com www.2ndcamaro.com


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Reading this thread makes me feel so lucky!! I didn't realize JJ were that hard to find when I bought them over knard mainly because of weight and price...


----------



## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

I've got two sets of 4.0's and would like to trade one set for 4.8's if anyone is interested


----------



## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Don't suppose you can glue them back on after the race. Have fun ozzy! Were rooting for you!


ozzybmx said:


> Feeling a bit sad here... just about to shave the knobs off my 4.8" JJ's for the Simpson Desert Race.
> 
> Thinking centre and mid knobs and a slight shaving of the side ones for a max of 4psi, dropping to 2psi min.
> 
> ...


----------



## gecho (Apr 27, 2012)

I saw some Bontrager Barbegazis on a bike at a Trek dealer last week. Haven't seen much info on them yet though. Looked kind of like a JJ but less sparse knob placement.


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

jpfurn said:


> I bought a set of Ground Controls because I'm in the same boat. I think they might be a great option for you as well!


Possibly a good idea - thanks. You don't happen to know how tall yours ended up being do you? (Just being lazy and not wanting to search a whole other thread for info that might not exist.)



Way2ManyBikes said:


> I've been running the 27.5+ with the Panaracer Fat B Nimble and I am truly impressed with them. So much so I haven't mounted my 4.0 Jumbo Jim's because I may buy a set of 4.0 Fat B Nimbles's.


Yes - FBN has been quite good to me too! Unfortunately, as it turns out, its the 29+ version of that tire that I'm using as my rear tire, and which has caused me to need a taller front tire to begin with. So the 4.0 version isn't going to work in my case. Wouldn't it be interesting if Panaracer got a 4.8" version to market before Schwalbe got the JJ out, though? Both would be going after the same lightweight / fast-rolling / reasonably-priced / summer-oriented fat tire market.



gecho said:


> I saw some Bontrager Barbegazis on a bike at a Trek dealer last week. Haven't seen much info on them yet though. Looked kind of like a JJ but less sparse knob placement.


Now THAT is interesting! Hadn't heard of this one yet, and you're right it is sort of similar to the JJ tread. Height looks pretty good at just over 30", too. What's equally interesting is the 650b+++ version, that is the same exact height. That could make for a pretty interesting "semi-fat" front setup!:


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## Cold Trigger Finger (Aug 4, 2015)

My bet is they will work good on dry snow. Like Interior Alaskan winter snow. 
Probably not as well in snowball snow. 
For those that don't know. Unless its a may or summer snow. We can never make a snowball in interior Ak. 
Sometimes, compressing but not tearing the snow gives the best traction.


----------



## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Cold Trigger Finger said:


> My bet is they will work good on dry snow. Like Interior Alaskan winter snow.
> Probably not as well in snowball snow.
> For those that don't know. Unless its a may or summer snow. We can never make a snowball in interior Ak.
> Sometimes, compressing but not tearing the snow gives the best traction.


You're right. We're sort of similar here in Wyoming: High, dry, alpine desert that gets the vast majority of it's precipitation as snow during sub-zero (F) temps. Heck, almost any tread works fine here, most of the time.

I didn't mean to suggest that the JJ might not be suitable for winter use, as much as I meant that most _other_ options are not as suitable for summer use. Manufacturers seem to be obsessed with (and competing with us consumers for) the JJ strictly because of its light weight. To me, the real appeal is the more sparse, non-overkill tread which is more than enough for summer trails. The weight is really sort of a happy result of that fact, but a pretty secondary consideration in the real world.

Since Big Fat Larry debuted, there really haven't been that many similar options. And now that people are discovering 29+ as the superior summer tire platform, I worry that there might not be as much energy devoted to this area, too. I guess the nice thing about the big guys like Schwalbe, Panaracer and, to a lesser extent, Bontreker getting into the market is that, once they invest in a tire, its likely to remain available for a LONG time - so we can rely on its availability. Once its actually available, that is.

On that note, the Barbegazi was supposed to be available in August. It's September now. Here we go again....


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

iamkeith said:


> I just asked Schwalbe USA. They said at least not until Spring, now.
> 
> So, hedging my bets in the meantime, what's the best, current _alternative_ recommendation?


Damn!
Knard 4.8" ?


----------



## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

First ride on very wet condition with ls 4.8". I had 4.2 psi in the JJ. Some places the trail was like a little river with lots of stones. I thought they will be slippery. They worked well. My weight is 65 kg. No problem with low pressure.


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## Chromehorn (Dec 3, 2011)

bme107 said:


> Damn!
> Knard 4.8" ?


I gave up and went with a Knard 3.8. Very happy with it.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Has anyone here installed a 4.0 JJ on 100mm rims? I am interested to see the 4.0 JJ tire width and shape on 100mm rims. Thanks.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## elviiis (Aug 27, 2015)

mortenste said:


> About 100 mm on my nexties 65mm.


Thanks

I have plan to use mavrick duc32 with jumbo jim. My first plan is use them with surly merge lite but if width is cca 100mm than I must use 50mm trial rim. As realy last option is extend DUC for fit wider tyre. Also one of plan is use bontrager hodag but this not available in Czech Republic.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Just picked up some 4.0 liteskins, felt double double take offs, and holy chit are they light. Going to mount them up tubeless to my nextie 65's this weekend and report back. I don't have a scale to weigh them, just going off feel at this point.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

joeduda said:


> Just picked up some 4.0 liteskins, felt double double take offs, and holy chit are they light. Going to mount them up tubeless to my nextie 65's this weekend and report back. I don't have a scale to weigh them, just going off feel at this point.


I weighed one of the 4.0 lite skins that are on my Bucksaw and it was right at the advertised weight of 990gr.


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## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

Paochow said:


> I weighed one of the 4.0 lite skins that are on my Bucksaw and it was right at the advertised weight of 990gr.


Mine are both 1050 grams


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks guys for posting the actual weights of the JJ 4.0 liteskin. Any leads as to where is it available for purchase? Thanks.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

scottspark60 said:


> Thanks guys for posting the actual weights of the JJ 4.0 liteskin. Any leads as to where is it available for purchase? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Get lucky on eBay, or find somebody on the trail with the tires specced as new and offer them a different set of tires plus cash in trade. Saw somebody taking it easy on the trails on a Felt a few months back - obv not a serious rider, probably could have had her JJs for $200 plus tires in trade if I swapped the tires out for her.

I called a LBS and asked about buying JJs off one of their floor models, but they wouldn't do it. Maybe different bike shops would have a different attitude, not sure.

So yeah, eBay is probably your best bet. It's where I got by liteskins and snakeskins.


----------



## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Angry Catfish Bicycle shop, Minneapolis had a few pairs of JJ liteskin 4.8's in stock yesterday (@ MSRP) but I think they are local sales only.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> Angry Catfish Bicycle shop, Minneapolis had a few pairs of JJ liteskin 4.8's in stock yesterday (@ MSRP) but I think they are local sales only.


I just called and they said they only have the 4.0's.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

They had at least four of the 4.8's last night @700. They were underneath one of the clothing tables and not with the regular tire display. I thought they were 4.0's at first as I got a pair of 4.0's from them last week, but they definitely said 4.8 right near the tread. I was surprised as this was the first time I had seen one in person. I almost bought a pair for my Fatboy, but my GC's are only about half worn. And they were ~$126


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> They had at least four of the 4.8's last night @700. They were underneath one of the clothing tables and not with the regular tire display. I thought they were 4.0's at first as I got a pair of 4.0's from them last week, but they definitely said 4.8 right near the tread. I was surprised as this was the first time I had seen one in person. I almost bought a pair for my Fatboy, but my GC's are only about half worn. And they were ~$126


You were right! I called back and they found them, but they were spoken for. Thanks for the heads up!


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> You were right! I called back and they found them, but they were spoken for. Thanks for the heads up!


I knew I wasn't going crazy..... yet


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> I almost bought a pair for my Fatboy, but my GC's are only about half worn. And they were ~$126


How much does a new pair of GC's go for?


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

I think they are $129 now- last year they were $169 but they appear to have dropped the MSRP.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Paochow said:


> I think they are $129 now- last year they were $169 but they appear to have dropped the MSRP.


Awesome, thanks! I'm going to sell some new GC's and wait for the 4.8's. Hopefully they fit!


----------



## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Does anyone have any info on a UK or even European source for some 4.0 liteskins yet please ? 



Fat Biker


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## CarverS (Sep 28, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Does anyone have any info on a UK or even European source for some 4.0 liteskins yet please ?
> 
> Fat Biker


A lot, lol, if you have another year. Mine are in backorder since october 2014.


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## phred (Aug 25, 2007)

Bought a pair of 4.0 liteskins from Angry Catfish. Will replace my knard 3.8s. Should drop about a pound from the bike. Woot woot.


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

I have a pair of liteskins laying here,used about 10 km.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

mortenste said:


> I have a pair of liteskins laying here,used about 10 km.


PM'd you Mortenste 

Fat Biker

P.S. Do you still run the Juggernaut Pro's ? If so , which is lighter JJ or JP please ? And what was the reason for your switch ?


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## mortenste (Apr 17, 2014)

Jp is about 240 grams lighter each.the reason for the switch was weight.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

phred said:


> Bought a pair of 4.0 liteskins from Angry Catfish. Will replace my knard 3.8s. Should drop about a pound from the bike. Woot woot.


Your going to be amazed how much better they are then the knards. I absolutely despised that tire especially on the front of my bike.

Marty-MJ
www.garagescene.net


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

I've had a few rides in on mine now and one race. Overall I like the tire. Only compliant I have would be braking traction and that is probably more the rider than the tire. I have not had them in the mud really so can't comment on that. They roll as good or better then the mammoths I was running and are noticeably easier to spin up to speed. Cornering and climbing traction are very good. The trails around me vary from sandy to gravel, and hard pack with some roots and rocks mixed in. Once the snow flies I'll be back on Bud and Lou.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

mortenste said:


> Jp is about 240 grams lighter each.the reason for the switch was weight.


Where did you get the Juggernaut Pro's from out of curiosity please Mortenste ?

Fat Biker


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

I would love a pair. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

Just ordered a pair from Angry Cat Fish. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

My 4.0s are coming in the mail today going to mount them up to my clownshoes when they get here..I posted a thread earlier basically asking the same thing ..I'll post some pictures when I get them all set up.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

That's a wide rim for a 4.0 tire

Marty-MJ
www.garagescene.net


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Yea I guess there a bit wider than 4.0 I got a steal on them so I couldn't pass up on them if they don't work out I'll sell them


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## RickyB (Jul 6, 2004)

Faction6 said:


> Yea I guess there a bit wider than 4.0 I got a steal on them so I couldn't pass up on them if they don't work out I'll sell them


I've got a pair of 4.6's that are too big for my frame, so if you want to swap them, let me now. The 4.0's will be perfect for my 90mm Nexties, but the big ones are REALLY big. I had a Bulldozer in the back, and the JJ is much taller and wider. No problem up front, only in the back of my 170 Fatback.


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Are they evo ls pacestar?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Faction6 said:


> My 4.0s are coming in the mail today going to mount them up to my clownshoes when they get here..I posted a thread earlier basically asking the same thing ..I'll post some pictures when I get them all set up.


Might I enquire as to where you purchased the elusive Jumbo Jim 4.0. My need is great for this veritable unicorn of a tyre. I have searched high and low. Across hill and Vale. O'er moor and dale for many leagues without success. Alas I fear my dark skinned eastern princess shall be without shoe for these long cold winter days that draw ever nearer.

:cryin: :arf: ut: :crazy: :smilewinkgrin:

Fat Biker


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Forum off facebook I know how hard they are to get and I couldn't pass up on how good of a deal it was to purchase a set of them I mounted them up last night just to see how they would look not sure if I am actually going to use them or not...I'm waiting to hear back from someone on here who might want to do a trade for some 4.8 jumbo Jim's...are you interested in them if it falls through?


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Faction6 said:


> Forum off facebook I know how hard they are to get and I couldn't pass up on how good of a deal it was to purchase a set of them I mounted them up last night just to see how they would look not sure if I am actually going to use them or not...I'm waiting to hear back from someone on here who might want to do a trade for some 4.8 jumbo Jim's...are you interested in them if it falls through?


Sure am.

But. . . . . . . . .

I live in the UK so shipping (which I'll pay of course  ) is going to be horrific 

Thanks for the offer.

Lets see how things pan out 

Fat Biker


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Quick photo of it mounted to a clown shoe


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Fat Biker said:


> Sure am.
> 
> But. . . . . . . . .
> 
> ...


Sounds good no problem


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Faction6 said:


> Quick photo of it mounted to a clown shoe


It don't look too bad that do it ? 
Although you might need to take care on rocky trails.

Fat Biker


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

That's my only concern...


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

Faction6 said:


> That's my only concern...


LOL stop posting pictures already wil ya ? 
Ya big tease :thumbsup: :idea:

Fat Biker


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## Faction6 (Oct 3, 2015)

Hahah can't help it!!!!!:madman:


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

:thumbsup:


Fat Biker


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

A quick update for people from Europe/UK looking for the JJ 4.0 liteskin .

Monfat.fr has them in stock (18 at time of posting 23:20 GMT 11/10/2015)

Jumbo Jim 4.0 Liteskin /

Thought some of you might find this useful

Fat Biker


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## urmb (Oct 4, 2005)

Can you measure the width at the widest point?
Thx,
urmb


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

urmb said:


> Can you measure the width at the widest point?
> Thx,
> urmb


As soon as they arrive I'll get the pics , weights and measurements 

FYI

Est delivery date is 20/10/2015 but it could be as late as 28/10/2015.

Fat Biker


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

urmb said:


> Can you measure the width at the widest point?
> Thx,
> urmb


On what size rim?


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

4.0s on 65 mm Nextie = 98 mm on the outside off the side lugs, the casing is right around 95 mm.










My 3.8 Knard on 80 mm rim sitting next to it is the same width at the lug with a casing around 97 mm.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Anybody know where the 4.8s are in stock in the USA?


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## phred (Aug 25, 2007)

Yes I agree with you Marty. Much less self steer at lower PSI. Increase in descending confidence when I can control the bike. )


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

I just got my 4.0s put on my surly rims. My bike shopsswapped out my Nate and Knard for these. When I went to pick up my bike, One of the employees kind of went off... He kept insisting that fat tires were never meant to be setup as tubeless... He backed it with nothing except his opinion. It was kind of annoying. Anyway, I'll be riding tomorrow morning and can't wait to see how they perform. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

Oh here's a pic








Sent from my iPhone


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

The ride was super plush! I was surprised. The braking was way better than with my Nate and Knards. The rear traction wasn't as good, but maybe I need to play with the tire pressure a bit. 
Overall I love. Easier to ride too!


Sent from my iPhone


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## osebrevo (Oct 4, 2015)

More pics... Jumbo Jim Evo 4.0

Theses LiteSkins came stock on 2016 Norco Bigfoot 6.2 Hoping rain holds off today to give the bike a second run. Grips nice on sloped trails.


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## CarverS (Sep 28, 2015)

Just ordered a set with Monfat.fr They had a couple of them in stock. Will arrive next week. My Knards have hardly any knobs after almost two years of riding. Anxious to experience these ones.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

CarverS said:


> Just ordered a set with Monfat.fr They had a couple of them in stock. Will arrive next week. My Knards have hardly any knobs after almost two years of riding. Anxious to experience these ones.


They are sweet, but wear very quickly!


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

jpfurn said:


> They are sweet, but wear very quickly!


I have about 600 miles of mixed pavement, dirt and gravel roads and they are wearing very, very well.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

scot_douglas said:


> I have about 600 miles of mixed pavement, dirt and gravel roads and they are wearing very, very well.


Mine wore well alright....lol! My LS's wore a lot faster then the other tires I've tried. Now my wife's snake skins still look brand new, they have a completely different feel to them. She's also a lot lighter then me and doesn't ride very much to be fair.


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## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

I have a pair of never-mounted 4.0 snakeskins I'm looking to sell - just put them on eBay.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

You did pretty well with that auction! I bid $250 & got crushed

Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4 0 Snakeskin Pair New | eBay


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

$337.... Holy crap. I'd think of ripping both my sets off and selling them for that kind of dough!!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Boy did I sell my set too cheap.


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

Wow!! I only paid $227 for mine. Anyway, I did some riding today after we had about 4 days of rain. The mud was fun.. It was awesome. The jumbo Jim tires handle super well


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## 4-inch-or-more (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm running the JJ's 4.0 Liteskins tubeless on BR2250 wheels.
Love how nimble and quick they feel for fat tires.
Traction is pretty good, but I find mud to be the real enemy of the JJ's.
On the really sticky mud (like clay, not sand) it's even scary.
On all other surfaces it's pure joy!!
Oh yeah, they also seem to wear very quick when you do some pavement now and then.


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## smileyboy (May 28, 2009)

4-inch-or-more said:


> I'm running the JJ's 4.0 Liteskins tubeless on BR2250 wheels.
> Love how nimble and quick they feel for fat tires.
> Traction is pretty good, but I find mud to be the real enemy of the JJ's.
> On the really sticky mud (like clay, not sand) it's even scary.
> ...


On clay sand combo ride for me. They were great! Sticky mud wasn't great!

Sent from my iPhone


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

MiniTrail said:


> shoulda been around in the endo years. Endo on clay = pucker


Endo in a corner = pucker! They do work well in sand though. I still have a set for beach riding.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

LBS got a new Blackborrow in and it has 4.8" JJ on CS. Very impressive tire, and I am curious as to why no Bud/Lou?


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

jonshonda said:


> LBS got a new Blackborrow in and it has 4.8" JJ on CS. Very impressive tire, and I am curious as to why no Bud/Lou?


here's a thought: Spec another manufacturers tire at OEM pricing and sell more Bud/Lou at MSRP?


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Gigantic said:


> here's a thought: Spec another manufacturers tire at OEM pricing and sell more Bud/Lou at MSRP?


AhAhAh! this^!

How about saving 576 g of rolling weight, with less rolling resistance, ease for tubeless setting and pretty decent grip/cornering performance? That's what I experience myself going from Lou/Lou to JJ 4.8 on my Blackborow

I'm about to put my Lous back for winter riding though&#8230; I will now see how harder it is (or not) to set them tubeless vs JJ


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

Still no JJs widely available? I scored some 4" snakeskins off eBay for summer abuse, but I'd really like some 4.8" liteskins for the snow. Anybody know of a source?


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

the Schwalbe rep said January. They had no idea how popular the tire would be for OEM's trying to make their bikes look lighter on the spec sheets...


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

gi02sl said:


> Still no JJs widely available? I scored some 4" snakeskins off eBay for summer abuse, but I'd really like some 4.8" liteskins for the snow. Anybody know of a source?


Not sure the JJ's would be a very good snow tire even in 4.8". My 4.0's are fantastic on anything dry, but really slide around a lot on the loose stuff. With the tiny wide spaced knobs I think you'd be giving up a lot of grip.

This review found similar results: First Ride: Schwalbe?s Superlight Jumbo Jim 4.8? Wide Fat Bike Tires


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Paochow said:


> Not sure the JJ's would be a very good snow tire even in 4.8". My 4.0's are fantastic on anything dry, but really slide around a lot on the loose stuff. With the tiny wide spaced knobs I think you'd be giving up a lot of grip.
> 
> This review found similar results: First Ride: Schwalbe?s Superlight Jumbo Jim 4.8? Wide Fat Bike Tires


Low pressure is the key on the JJs. Need to get them big 7mm side knobs down there to do their stuff. Flotation is of course 1st rate on the 4.8 version.
As seen before:


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## anortherncrazy (Feb 23, 2011)

This tire sucks on everything except hard packed dirt and snow. But I still like it! Hahaha. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

anortherncrazy said:


> This tire sucks on everything except hard packed dirt and snow. But I still like it! Hahaha.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree! I took my wife's Farley w/ JJ's out today and climbed a bunch of hills that my buddy couldn't clear on his Yampa w/Nates.... Really surprised me. And on top of that they spin up so fast! I think it was one of those magical snow types you only see a couple times a year here that packs perfectly and let's you wheelie up hills in 4+ inches of snow


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Gigantic said:


> the Schwalbe rep said January. They had no idea how popular the tire would be for OEM's trying to make their bikes look lighter on the spec sheets...


Only 17 months later. Nice job??
BS! Anybody fatbiking for at least that long could have predicted this. 
Believable yet amusing at the same time, because traditionally "we can't tell you how much our bikes weigh because variations in blah blah blah... we encourage to visit your LBS..."


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## claimed4all (Aug 10, 2015)

Anybody choosing to run the 4.8" JJ as a winter/snow tire.

My fatbike came speced with with 4.8" JJ on Mulefut 80mm wheels. My current dilemma is to set up the JJ tubeless, or buy a different tire for the winter then set those up tubeless, saving the JJ for summer.

Riding will be in West Michigan, tires to be ridden for commuting on city streets, and trail riding. Trails will be mostly groomed trails with some off the beaten path shenanigans now and again. I just am not looking forward to speeding a couple hundred more dollars for a winter tire, especially if the JJ will handle it decently well.


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

*********paid SPAM********

I'm selling a brand new pair of JJ's 26x4.8's!
Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4.8 SnakeSkin Fat Bike Tires (Pair) - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

~Ish said:


> *********paid SPAM********
> 
> I'm selling a brand new pair of JJ's 26x4.8's!
> 
> Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 26x4.8 SnakeSkin Fat Bike Tires (Pair) - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


Omfg 320 for a used set, barely over 200 new. Plus 15 for shipping I made the mistake of clicking the add. Just wrong on so many levels.


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> Omfg 320 for a used set, barely over 200 new. Plus 15 for shipping I made the mistake of clicking the add. Just wrong on so many levels.


Thanks Man - I just listed them for what I was seeing them on ebay. Looks like schwalbe has them listed at $140 each but out of stock. These are brand new. Anyways, I updated the price to $290. Just let me know if your interested and I'm sure we can figure out a fair price and fair shipping cost. Thanks for looking!


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## JoeFriday (Nov 11, 2015)

just an FYI.. I contacted Schwalbe a couple weeks ago to ask about availability. They said they'll be hitting the shelves in North America next April. Fingers crossed, we'll be seeing them for the MSRP (or cheaper) about the time the snow starts to melt.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

Any reports of how these work in the snow?


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

coyotegulch said:


> Any reports of how these work in the snow?


What kind of snow? They have been fine on what passed for snow in Anchorage for the past few weeks. We had a 3 to 5 inches over ice. It has been well packed and worked. Of course it's all gone now as the last few days have been in the 40s and blowing like stink.


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

Just a heads up, I talked with Schwalbe USA a few days ago and they told me that Jumbo Jims would be in stock some time this week. My 4.8 Liteskins were worn out, so I just checked the site and was able to order a pair. They have both Liteskin and Snakeskin in 4.0 size and Liteskin in 4.8 size. I have had 4.8 Liteskins on my bike since March of this year and have loved them. Granted, I do not have snow and only ride them in dirt, sand, and street. Been running them tubeless the entire time on Mulefuts with no flats, punctures, tears, or failure of any kind. Add air once a month or so and added a little extra sealant after the tires were deflated for air travel. 

Go get em boys!


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

I am in the front range of CO, so something that might work in 5-6 inches of powder, but also handle breaking through some crud from the thaw freeze cycle.

I have Vanhelgas this year and have liked them so far but was looking for something fatter to try. Was considering a bud and Lou, but a buddy mention the JJs. 

I use HuDUs in the summer. 

Thanks for the input.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I'm a fan of the 4.0 in dry summer conditions, less so in damp. I put a 4.8 on the front for winter. It's fine in loose snow and general handling, but on hard pack and corners I found traction lacking. I moved the 4.8 to the back and put a Dillinger 5 on the front. Really like this combo.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Gigantic said:


> here's a thought: Spec another manufacturers tire at OEM pricing and sell more Bud/Lou at MSRP?


Are Bud/Lou more in demand right now than JJ?

Because unless they are, I don't see how that makes any sense.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Shamis said:


> Just a heads up,....I just checked the site and was able to order a pair. They have both Liteskin and Snakeskin in 4.0 size and Liteskin in 4.8 size.


Sweetness, only 16 months!

Too bad I ordered the tires I needed 5 months ago. Maybe when these wear out. :ugh:


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

FYI: Jumbo Jims are now available outside of the schwalbe site. Aebike was the cheapest I could find for Snake Skin 4.0's- $93.99 a tire shipped. 28 left.

Still no 4.8 Snake Skins though


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## RockyJo1 (Jul 23, 2012)

It's been so long I don't know if I want a set of these tires anymore.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

4.0 and 4.8 Liteskins in stock and available though (AEBike) at $84.99 and $95.99... should be fine for winter riding.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

RockyJo1 said:


> It's been so long I don't know if I want a set of these tires anymore.


If you ride fat in the summer, you'll definitely want them....


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## wetpaint (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm flip flopping for summer tires now, to get JJ or just keep running Dillingers?


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

wetpaint said:


> I'm flip flopping for summer tires now, to get JJ or just keep running Dillingers?


JJ is the way for Summer tires. I live in California in Santa Cruz mountains where we have no snow and rarely any extended winter weather. I have been running these tires (4.8 Liteskins) for almost a year with no failures. Have my replacement pair waiting to go on when I get around to it. I don't these tires are going to be worth a **** in snow conditions unless it's powdery soft where it doesn't matter.


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## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

My wife's bike is coming with JJ's spec'd as standard.....can anyone provide feedback on the 4.8s in the snow?

We will be riding packed/groomed for fat bike trails with plenty of ups, downs and turns (ie. not powder covered lakes, etc.) and maybe some semi packed gravel/Class IV roads.

Thanks


----------



## boondock (Dec 29, 2013)

My bike came with JJ's they work great on groomed trails in MN. I have a minion FDR in back right now to see how works in powder/off trail conditions.


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## skogorbet (Sep 2, 2005)

The 4.8's came on my new bike I just picked up. I was a l skeptical about how they will work in the snow. I live up high in Colorado, I ride only snow, from hardpack singletrack to crusty windblown/sun affected snow. I have 2 solid rides on them now in different conditions. My old bike has a Surly Bud up front and an On One Floater in the rear, so that is what I'm comparing them to. 

I am super pleased with how the rear performs. Grabs everything, holds a line, tracks well, and has more traction than I can push through, can't really get it to break free. It's a little loose in the corners, which is kinda fun once you get used to it. Thumbs up though, awesome rear tire.

The front I was considering swapping out with the Bud that I have. Side by side comparison, the JJ is a half pound lighter than the Bud, it is also almost a quarter inch wider than the Bud as well. The Bud's tread is way more aggressive and taller, so I was a bit worried how the JJ would perform as far as cornering goes. It did just fine, never had a problem with it washing out. The only thing I noticed is when I got a bit sloppy and would hit the side soft pack of the trail, the side knobs on the Bud's handled the soft berm of the side of the trail, making it easier to stay a bit on track.

Just my $0.02 for what it's worth. Very surprised and happy at how they are riding for me on everything from hard packed snow, to soft light powder. I'm gonna keep them...


----------



## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Those are the results I was hoping for....as in no glaring issues with them. The last thing I want to do is hand my wonderful wife a death trap.......lol


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Paochow said:


> FYI: Jumbo Jims are now available outside of the schwalbe site. Aebike was the cheapest I could find for Snake Skin 4.0's- $93.99 a tire shipped. 28 left.
> 
> Still no 4.8 Snake Skins though


20 left in AEBike. Those would be sold to only ten buyers, then months of waiting again.


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for the update on getting them in the states. Had them on order from Bike24 for over a year. Just got my LBS to match AEBike.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

4.8 liteskins are on eBay.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

gi02sl said:


> 4.8 liteskins are on eBay.


Yes but for $141 per tire.

.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Scroll down. $93 (plus $15 shipping).


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

AEbike at $94 provides free shipping. And if you are a first time AE bike customer, you get a 5% discount above this.


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## tankhead10 (Dec 6, 2014)

Not showing $94.00. They are between $111.00 and $138.00 now


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Bike24 emailed me this morning - they now have inventory and are starting to ship


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

slabber said:


> Bike24 emailed me this morning - they now have inventory and are starting to ship


Thanks for the heads up! Just ordered a set of Snake Skin 4.8's.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

tankhead10 said:


> Not showing $94.00. They are between $111.00 and $138.00 now


Yeah looks like the prices just jumped at AEBike. Bike24 seems to have the better price now, even with shipping and the PayPal exchange rate.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

For some reason every Schwalbe tire I've ordered from bike24 has come in severely overweight. So bad I was starting to think they where dumping the outa spec tires on me  . The ones I get from my LBS have always been very close.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

bdundee said:


> For some reason every Schwalbe tire I've ordered from bike24 has come in severely overweight. So bad I was starting to think they where dumping the outa spec tires on me  . The ones I get from my LBS have always been very close.


Can you quantify severely overweight? I've got 16 tires coming, 15 x4.0 and 1 x4.8. I'll weigh all of them. Should beer interesting to see how much variance there is.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I ordered a pair of 4.0 snakeskins from this ebay seller. With shipping it works out to $88 each.

New Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Tubeless Easy Snakeskin Tire 26x4 0 EVO Folding Pacestar | eBay


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

slabber said:


> Can you quantify severely overweight? I've got 16 tires coming, 15 x4.0 and 1 x4.8. I'll weigh all of them. Should beer interesting to see how much variance there is.


Mine where all 29er or 27.5's snakeskins and on the low end they where all at least 100g over the specified weight and a few where up over 150g. Be interesting to hear what yours come out at.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jeffw-13 said:


> I ordered a pair of 4.0 snakeskins from this ebay seller. With shipping it works out to $88 each.
> 
> New Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Tubeless Easy Snakeskin Tire 26x4 0 EVO Folding Pacestar | eBay


Did the price change? The tires are listed at $90.91+16.45 shipping? Their lite skins are in the $88 range shipped per pair.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

When I got mine you got 10% off if you bought more than 1 plus discounted shipping. He may have changed it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## CarverS (Sep 28, 2015)

Have read different experiences about the JJ's 4.0. I have ridden them three times now on an 0.6 bar pressure with my Trek Farley Saso suspension, bodyweight 87 kgs. Fast rolling tyre on firm sand and mud and pavement. The grip in hard packed mud with soft mud over it: you have to be concentrated to keep the bike where you want it to be. On soft damp sand: the tyre will keep the sand between the knobs and gets heavier accordingly. In climbs: I am satisfied withe tyre. I like the allround character of this light tyre. The tyre is cheap in Europe compared to other tyres. It's a keeper. Heard that they are allround good in snow too.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Mine will be used for summer riding, mostly on rocky trails. I chose the JJ for the snakeskin casing. The sidewalls of the H Billies I had on before got worn pretty badly.


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Rode for the first time on new 4.8s. Got locally (tree fort bikes in SE mich). Was able to weigh in the store. Do try LBS if you can. I found weights vary 100 grams, but got set at 1185 grams. Replaced specialized gc 4.6 and saved ~250 grams on single tire. First impression: I think the traction is a little lower on JJs but predictable in corners (was on packed snow). Lower weight noticeable, and the tires ride faster with lower rolling resistance (casing more supple too). I've also ridden surly knard 3.8s (at exactly the same weight as JJs), and the JJs are a better tire for me. More protection for 90mm rims and keeps bottom bracket clearance sufficient. I really like these tires. Do weigh before you mount, however -- I saw lots of variability.


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## cardnation (Jul 2, 2014)

Meriwether74 said:


> Rode for the first time on new 4.8s. Got locally (tree fort bikes in SE mich). Was able to weigh in the store. Do try LBS if you can. I found weights vary 100 grams, but got set at 1185 grams. Replaced specialized gc 4.6 and saved ~250 grams on single tire. First impression: I think the traction is a little lower on JJs but predictable in corners (was on packed snow). Lower weight noticeable, and the tires ride faster with lower rolling resistance (casing more supple too). I've also ridden surly knard 3.8s (at exactly the same weight as JJs), and the JJs are a better tire for me. More protection for 90mm rims and keeps bottom bracket clearance sufficient. I really like these tires. Do weigh before you mount, however -- I saw lots of variability.


Any noticeable size difference between the 4.8 JJ and the 4.6 GC?


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Virtually the same -- JJs casing wider by a few millimeters, but slightly narrower across knobs. Footprint has to be almost identical.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

I got my JJ 4.0 Snakeskins in yesterday. Portly little bastards. 1180 gr each compared to the 990 gr for my liteskins. That being said they are definitely a more robust construction, hopefully 190gr is the difference between pushing and riding.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Mine were also 1180 g. Ill take the weight penalty for the extra protection. I plan to beat them pretty hard. I have Schwalbe Snakeskin tires on my rigid 29er and they take a ton of abuse.


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Second ride on 4.8 JJs today on virtually perfect snow conditions -- packed ribbon of singletrack. Did familiar loop in 93 minutes, just 7 minutes slower than fastest time in the summer. May not be the highest traction fatbike tire out there, but balance between light weight, rolling resistance, and corning traction is awful good. Fatbikes make winter riding so much fun!


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

jeffw-13 said:


> Mine were also 1180 g. Ill take the weight penalty for the extra protection. I plan to beat them pretty hard. I have Schwalbe Snakeskin tires on my rigid 29er and they take a ton of abuse.


it wasn't that long ago that 1180 was incredibly light for a 4" tire... Now. we're almost b¡tching about them being too heavy...


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

cardnation said:


> Any noticeable size difference between the 4.8 JJ and the 4.6 GC?





Meriwether74 said:


> Virtually the same -- JJs casing wider by a few millimeters, but slightly narrower across knobs. Footprint has to be almost identical.


i got a close up view of the 4.8 JJ's this weekend, a friend rented a Kona Wo.

Eyeball test, they looked slightly wider than my Snowshoe XL's (both on 80 MM wheels), and my brother in law's GC's (on 90 mm stock rims).

Wider at least due to side knobs on the JJ's.

Big weight savings too.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

*Grip Studs on JJs?*

Anyone ever try putting Grip Studs on JJs? I have a spare set and was thinking of putting some Grip studs on these things for the winter. Another option would just keep this set for the summer and continue using my Bud and Lous for the winter.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

paxfobiscum said:


> Anyone ever try putting Grip Studs on JJs? I have a spare set and was thinking of putting some Grip studs on these things for the winter. Another option would just keep this set for the summer and continue using my Bud and Lous for the winter.


if you already have B&L i would use those for winter and keep the JJ''s for summer use.

The JJ's don't have as heavy a tread for winter use


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## The Wrench (Jul 20, 2006)

For those running the Liteskin version tubeless, how easy did they set up? 

My only experience setting tires up tubeless are Bud\Lou on Bontrager Jackalopes, which I though was fairly straightforward and easy. Would the Liteskin version be considered similar in terms of easiness?

Thanks in advance!


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

On a tubeless ready rim, they set up very easy. On an non tubeless rim like the Marge Lite, they work tubeless just need a few tricks to get them to inflate.


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## paxfobiscum (Dec 16, 2014)

Swerny said:


> if you already have B&L i would use those for winter and keep the JJ''s for summer use.
> 
> The JJ's don't have as heavy a tread for winter use


Thanks Mike. Actually considering putting Grip Studs on my Bud/Lou. Rode yesterday with my B&L on 8 psi and got into a slick situation of ice and snow and did a semi-yard sale. I am sure some studs would have avoided that situation.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

paxfobiscum said:


> Anyone ever try putting Grip Studs on JJs? I have a spare set and was thinking of putting some Grip studs on these things for the winter. Another option would just keep this set for the summer and continue using my Bud and Lous for the winter.


I don't think the JJ's have a tall enough tread block to install the Grip Studs without piercing the inside of the tire. This might not be a problem if you are running tubeless. But if you have tubes, then it would be a big problem. Also, the JJ's seem to be very soft and that would cause the stud to wonder around and not give the best traction.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

paxfobiscum said:


> Thanks Mike. Actually considering putting Grip Studs on my Bud/Lou. Rode yesterday with my B&L on 8 psi and got into a slick situation of ice and snow and did a semi-yard sale. I am sure some studs would have avoided that situation.


Bud/Lou set up great with Grip Studs. This would be a great choice.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

slabber said:


> Can you quantify severely overweight? I've got 16 tires coming, 15 x4.0 and 1 x4.8. I'll weigh all of them. Should be interesting to see how much variance there is.











Weighed out as follows:

1041g

1042

1043

1046

1050

1054x3

1058

1062

1064

1071

1077

1079

1125

1284g for the one 4.8


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## afterhours (Sep 1, 2005)

slabber said:


> View attachment 1046118
> 
> 
> Weighed out as follows:
> ...


#fatbiketireporn


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

JJ4.0" works great with studs. A little bit slippery on a bare ice, because there's not enough rubber on the middle knobs to install any studs. The inner side knobs are not exactly in a same line, it make's them grip better than for example studded Floater's. I used recycled alu studs with pointed ends.


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## WesternMD (Jan 25, 2005)

Sooo.... what magical method did you use to instal these studs into a tire without stud pockets? thanks


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

The magical method:





The studs can be left more out from the surface compared to 2" tires. A lot less force on them on fat-tire.


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## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

I'll have to try that with my 4.8's. 

When I have time, of course. That's pretty damn sweet.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

vmk said:


> The magical method:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice!


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

My JJ's were a 2nd hand tires with a bit of problem when I 1st tried to make them tubeless:









I had a can of rubber paint that I was planning to try out as a tubeless rim strip, but instead I used it for putting a little bit more rubber on the sides. It worked, no more leaks  I don't have high hopes for the paint to surviving too long, done about 100km's with out any problems of peeling though. Black color would have been nicer or green


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## whitet777 (Sep 24, 2010)

slabber said:


> View attachment 1046118
> 
> 
> Weighed out as follows:
> ...


Are the 4.0 tires the TL SnakeSkins or the LiteSkins?


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Flucod said:


> I read the whole thread and cannot figure out how wide are the 4.0 on a 80mm rim, thanks for the help.


On an 85. the casing width is right at 99mm and the knobs are 100mm.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

my 2 4" liteskins came in at 1090g each on a calibrated scale. That's 100g over nominal. but still 180g less that my hudus.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

whitet777 said:


> Are the 4.0 tires the TL SnakeSkins or the LiteSkins?


Sorry, should have referenced it in that post - all tires were Liteskin... so over spec for sure. But presumably they've beefed them up a bit over the original design spec. I'm fine with that. The 2 tires I mounted so far sealed up right away, no leakage from casing. The post above with the leaky sidewalls - I expect this was due to them being previously used... I always try to start with a fresh tire.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Anyone measure the diameter of the 4.0's yet?


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Paochow said:


> I got my JJ 4.0 Snakeskins in yesterday. Portly little bastards. 1180 gr each compared to the 990 gr for my liteskins. That being said they are definitely a more robust construction, hopefully 190gr is the difference between pushing and riding.


*Paochow*, was the 990g the actual weight for your Liteskin tires? All the ones I received were 1040g or over...


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## whitet777 (Sep 24, 2010)

slabber said:


> Sorry, should have referenced it in that post - all tires were Liteskin... so over spec for sure. But presumably they've beefed them up a bit over the original design spec. I'm fine with that. The 2 tires I mounted so far sealed up right away, no leakage from casing. The post above with the leaky sidewalls - I expect this was due to them being previously used... I always try to start with a fresh tire.


Thank you. Still trying to chose between these and the Juggernaut Pros. Looks like it comes down to lighter (Jugg) vs better rolling resistance and durability (JJ)?


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

whitet777 said:


> Thank you. Still trying to chose between these and the Juggernaut Pros. Looks like it comes down to lighter (Jugg) vs better rolling resistance and durability (JJ)?


I've rode both, (4.0 versions) and IMHO the Jumbo Jims are the better tire. The only good thing about the Juggernaut's were the weight, and it didn't translate to the trail, they felt like boat anchors on dirt roads and trails. I didn't ride either in the snow though, that's what bud and lou are for.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

slabber said:


> *Paochow*, was the 990g the actual weight for your Liteskin tires? All the ones I received were 1040g or over...


Yes- the 4.0 liteskins I have were 990 and 1000gr. They were some early production take offs, my LBS had.

My 4.0 Snakeskins are both 1180gr and my 4.8 Snakesskins weighted in at 1350gr-1370gr, which coincidentally is the weight of the half worn GC's they are replacing.


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## tankhead10 (Dec 6, 2014)

Any pics of the 4.0 liteskins on a 80 mm rim??? thanks


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Update from post above:

My 4.8 liteskins are on spec from a weight standpoint (~1185gr) but the carcass/sidewall very thin. I set up with tubes to start but have gotten two flats in 3 weeks from thorns as I've navigated icy sections by riding off the trail in spots (still very little snow cover in SE Michigan). Will need to accelerate my move to tubeless or get a few ounces of stans into the 24" q-tubes I'm running. This will add a little weight back. Something to consider for anyone debating liteskin vs snakeskin.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

4.0 Snakeskin: 1139gm/1170gm

First impression, burly sidewalks for such a light tire, knobbies are not so burly but it looks fast, weight loss over the Floaters (1350gm) is waay obvious; it felt like I'd reinstalled my 27+ wheels.

Mounted up true with tubes on Marge lites.

Edit: Feb. 7th

First ride today, mixed conditions, muck, corny snow, rock, dirt. Nice and fast, could tell the difference in weight from the Floaters, traction was fair on snow and mud, less than the Floaters for sure, but not terrible, on par with a Snowshoe.

I really like how mud didn't seem to accumulate and how well the tire cleaned up when it did get clogged with mud.

I ran through so pretty heavy scree and the tires didn't show any damage from the abuse.

No brake pull or auto steer issues.

Ran 8psi for rock and dirt, could have gone much lower, but I needed suport for running rock drops, stiff sidewalls are really solid.

I like em!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Paochow said:


> Yes- the 4.0 liteskins I have were 990 and 1000gr. They were some early production take offs, my LBS had.
> 
> My 4.0 Snakeskins are both 1180gr and my 4.8 Snakesskins weighted in at 1350gr-1370gr, which coincidentally is the weight of the half worn GC's they are replacing.


My 2 - 4.8 Liteskins are 1240g and measures 112mm (max knob width) on 82mm Rolling Darryl rims at 20psi. My previous tire was a Bulldozer 4.7 and weighs 1370g and measures 108mm (max knob width) on 82mm RD at 20 psi.


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks for the stats. Are you running tubes or tubeless?


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Meriwether74 said:


> Thanks for the stats. Are you running tubes or tubeless?


I'm running it with Q-tubes SL (26 x 2.4 - 2.7). The RD rims are not tubeless ready though I could try the Ghetto or split tube method. Maybe on the next rim upgrade i'll go tubeless.
Test ride it on trails yesterday (14Feb16) at 10psi and they're awesome. Very fast rolling too on the road compared to my previous Vee Bulldozer 4.7!


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks. I'm setup the same but put ~3 oz of stans in each tube. The thin carcass much more susceptible to small thorns, and I got 2 quick flats before the stans went in. Of course our terrain quite a bit different (I'm in Midwest of US). Tempurature quite a bit different too!


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

scottspark60 said:


> I'm running it with Q-tubes SL (26 x 2.4 - 2.7). The RD rims are not tubeless ready though I could try the Ghetto or split tube method. Maybe on the next rim upgrade i'll go tubeless.
> Test ride it on trails yesterday (14Feb16) at 10psi and they're awesome. Very fast rolling too on the road compared to my previous Vee Bulldozer 4.7!


I just replaced my Bulldozers with JJ 4.0 from my other bike. Worlds better, Now I have to decide if I want to try 4.8 JJ or stay with the 4.0 that I know I like


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I ran the JJ 4.0 Snakeskins down to 5psi and they still felt really firm, so today I ran them much lower, probably 2.5-3psi (didn't check with a gauge) and they remain suprisingly firm.

Good casing in the Snakeskins, bead has stayed in place with no issues, I'm really impressed, this could be a great all arounder for four season use. Of course, when the snow goes away I'll mount up 27+...

As the tire gets some break in time I'll ultimately change to tubeless.


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## aredemann (Oct 9, 2009)

Got my JJ 4.0 SS today took only 5 days from Europe and cost $55/tire. Did not weigh them but the package felt really light. I am excited to mount them for this weekends ride


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Where did you get them for $55


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## aredemann (Oct 9, 2009)

HIBIKE :: Shopping cart and proceed to checkout

Shipping was 20 euro but I had a bunch of other stuff in my order.


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

A pair of jj 4.8 SNAKEskins arrived recently..

1260g and 1350g 

(1290g claimed weight so i'm a little dissappointed that one is 60g overweight and that they are almost 100g difference from each other) but nevertheless they are nice and light.

My first impressions with jj 4.8: 
Scarily little thread pattern. They are basically slic tires with a few nobs thrown onto them!?
Very nice and light tires though. 

First ride: 
Incredible low rolling resistance compared to vee xl, vee bouldozer, and vee 2xl with approx the same pressure range.

I had heard thet they were fast, but I was blown away: 
I ran them down a groomed track that I've ridden on vee xl and 2xl recently and they felt incredibly fast in comparisment. It could have something to do with vee's "pattern" in between the nobs that suck in snow and make the tires cake up (makes them slower), but regardless of the reason the jj's are very very fast. I haven't long term experience with anything but vee tires so I won't compare them to anything else. 

On low pressure they do get very "twitchy" though. All tires have quite a bit of self steer on very low pressure, but these feels slightly different. In stead of the more constant pull from vee xl or 2xl self steering, the jj's twitch more like short bursts. It's a bit difficult to explain. I don't have a preference though, it's just something to be aware of. It's like they are a bit less predictable (but weaker) in their self steering compared to the other tires I've ridden.

Currently running them tubeless on 80mm rims: 
They look smaller than vee xl though (as far as i remember they have the same measurements bead to bead) but it might just be because they haven't streched fully yet.

On snow they have great traction (contrary to what most people are claiming). I believe anybody that struggles with these in snow are running with way too much pressure. They need low pressure for the side nobs to grip properly. Down in the 1-3psi range I can't say they had any worse traction than vee xl, so I'd happily trade my xl tires to jj in order to save a tiny bit of weight and roll a lot faster.

The front tires does wash out in the snow from time to time though. I believe this is the problem with all tires that are not front spesific (bud, etc) The JJ's are not worse than any of the Vee offerings I've mentioned above, but they aren't better.

To sum up: I have never tried a tire this big that rolled this fast. (On 80mm rims they felt like 4" tires)
All in all they will be my (1/2 year) tires, but based on how they perform in snow I'd say they are great as an all year tire.

(a side note) For winter, the king is 2xl, and there is no one in sight to de-throne them. I fell in love with those as soon as I tried them.

I would probably sell my soul for a JJ tire with the same dimensions as vee 2xl to run in the winter months.. Until then the JJ 4.8's are my new mistress.


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Andy 81, try the jj tubeless. Then they roll even better.


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Bought me a spare set JJ, at the moment they are mostly in stock everywhere, for the moment, and cheap


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## rob5589 (Dec 4, 2015)

Novaterra said:


> Bought me a spare set JJ, at the moment they are mostly in stock everywhere, for the moment, *and cheap*


Cheap is relative to fat tires I have found. So far, 108 per tire is the best I can find unless I go to an over seas shop, which I would rather avoid.

I read through this thread and didn't find an answer so; is anyone running a 4.8 front and 4.0 rear combo? Reasons I ask; 4.8 is too wide for my frame and I used to run 2.2 F and 2.0 R combo years ago on my full squish bike. It was a pretty popular combo at the time. 80mm wheel, fyi.

Thanks


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## Novaterra (Jan 1, 2014)

Payed €68 per piece, thats about $75 i think. 
https://www.bike-components.de/de/S...ution-LiteSkin-PaceStar-26-Faltreifen-p41209/


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

rob5589 said:


> I read through this thread and didn't find an answer so; is anyone running a 4.8 front and 4.0 rear combo? Reasons I ask; 4.8 is too wide for my frame and I used to run 2.2 F and 2.0 R combo years ago on my full squish bike. It was a pretty popular combo at the time. 80mm wheel, fyi.
> 
> Thanks


You should be fine I've run Bud and Ground Control and I know people also ran Big Fat Larry and Larry combo back in the day.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

rob5589 said:


> Cheap is relative to fat tires I have found. So far, 108 per tire is the best I can find unless I go to an over seas shop, which I would rather avoid.
> 
> I read through this thread and didn't find an answer so; is anyone running a 4.8 front and 4.0 rear combo? Reasons I ask; 4.8 is too wide for my frame and I used to run 2.2 F and 2.0 R combo years ago on my full squish bike. It was a pretty popular combo at the time. 80mm wheel, fyi.
> 
> Thanks


I have the Jug Pro 4.5 on the front with a VanHelga 4.0 on the back mounted to 85mm hoops.

I ran a larger tire on my MTB also. It just works for me.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Any measurements of JJ 4.8 on 65mm rims?


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

I posted them a little ways back in this thread.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

gi02sl said:


> I posted them a little ways back in this thread.


Gi02sl,

Just looked back at some of your posts. Turns out we have the same frame (sn01) and 65mm rims. Did the 4.8s not fit in the rear on 65s in the SN01?


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> Gi02sl,
> 
> Just looked back at some of your posts. Turns out we have the same frame (sn01) and 65mm rims. Did the 4.8s not fit in the rear on 65s in the SN01?


his prior quote:



gi02sl said:


> I posted some pics earlier in this thread. 4.8 will just fit on a 65 mm rim. I doubt that it would work on an 80+ mm rim.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

I copied down 110mm for JJ 4.8 and 65mm from someone.


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## gi02sl (Jul 2, 2009)

The clearance is almost exactly the same for a Dillinger 5 or JJ 5 on 65 mm rims in back. I have used both without issues. I've ridden almost all winter with a JJ 5 on the back (SN-01 frame).


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## uwprunner (Sep 16, 2009)

Photo of 4.0 and 4.8 Lite skin tires. It seems both tires have the same number and height of knobs, they are just spaced out more on the 4.8.

approx 1100 and 1200g respectively.


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## elviiis (Aug 27, 2015)

I used 4.0 on 48mm trialtech rims on the wider place (knob) is 94 mm wide.


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## 4-inch-or-more (Oct 24, 2015)

Last month I was on a bike-expo (Velofollies) and saw the new Cube fatbike.
It had Jumbo Jims in size 4.4 stock.
Would be nice if these also get commercialised, 4.8 is kinda big for my frame and I am very pleased with the 4.0's


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## AlaskaStinson (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm currently running 4.8 LiteSkins. I have only used them on snow. In a month, We'll be transitioning to dirt, mud, and rocks. While setting the tires up for tubeless, I notice how thin they are. They feel like heavy duty inner tubes.

I interested on what peoples experience is regarding the durability of these tires. Should I hang them up for next year and find something more robust in the 3.8 variety.

We don't have any thorns up here, just the occasional sharp rock and stick.

Sorry in advance for beating this subject to death, most of the archived info is pretty old.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

AlaskaStinson said:


> I'm currently running 4.8 LiteSkins. I have only used them on snow. In a month, We'll be transitioning to dirt, mud, and rocks. While setting the tires up for tubeless, I notice how thin they are. They feel like heavy duty inner tubes.
> 
> I interested on what peoples experience is regarding the durability of these tires. Should I hang them up for next year and find something more robust in the 3.8 variety.
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat as you. I got the lite skins 4.0 to replace my 45nrth husker du light 120tpi. In the hand they feel the similar in side wall thickness. So if they last the 3 hard summer seasons like the HuDu did I will be happy.


----------



## smurfybloke (Nov 10, 2010)

*Lite vs Snake*

As above, I also have the Lite vs Snake dilemma.

Just bought some 4" Snakeskins (as read lots of talk of Lites being too fragile, and also presume Snakes would be more suited to tubeless) but I'm disappointed to find just how _stiff_ the sidewalls really are. I've always ridden supple Surly 120tpi tyres up till now (Endo, Larry, BFL, Nate), and these are stiffer even at much lower pressures (tubeless) vs my previous (with tubes)!

My riding is mostly beach/coast (including rocks but low speed tideline rocks rather than jagged trails). Lots and lots of thorns, but Stans sealant (tubes or tubeless) always deals with them, which means Liteskins' thinner carcass less an issue?

&#8230;very confused, but think I'm regretting not going with Liteskins 

Will be running them tubeless (not split tube) on my Darryls so also worried the extra suppleness of Lites may translate to more risk of burping? &#8230;but then if I have to run these Snakes at 5psi to match the feel of my other tyres at my usual 7psi then that may make burping Snake vs Lite similar risk.... 

Any feedback gratefully received :thumbsup:


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## whitet777 (Sep 24, 2010)

FWIW, I just got my 4.0 Liteskins from HiBike. 1 weighed 1010 grams. The other 1031 grams. Not too bad compared to 990 advertised. Rode them today on hardpacked snow, and they were fantastic. Felt so much faster than my Dillinger 5s with studs. On loose snow or ice, I'd still take the Dillingers though. I saved around 2.25lbs switching to the Jumbo Jims.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

4-inch-or-more said:


> Last month I was on a bike-expo (Velofollies) and saw the new Cube fatbike.
> It had Jumbo Jims in size 4.4 stock.
> Would be nice if these also get commercialised, 4.8 is kinda big for my frame and I am very pleased with the 4.0's


Interesting! Yes, the intermediate size would work well on frames where the 4.8 won't fit but still need wider than the 4.0. Hopefully they will be available before 2017 ;-)


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## wfbal (Dec 29, 2013)

I have been riding my JJ 4.8 LS with tubes, which came with on my new (and first) fat bike, in hard pack and wet snow for 3 weeks now. Unlike other reviews, I did not find any major traction issues but smooth pedaling was required to maintain traction on steep climbs. Until then my experience with Fat Bike tires was limited to one ride on Snow shoes XL, so what do I know! 
I agree that you need to get the pressure down to maximise traction on soft snow. I went really low in the rear, I don't how low since my road bike pump gauge won't show any reading below 10lbs. I guess I need a low pressure gauge!


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## NitrousOxide (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm looking to shed ~1-1.5Kg tyre weight by swapping out 4.0 Mission Commands that came as stock on my Voodoo Wazoo for either a set of 4.0 JJs or Juggernaut Pros (if the latter ever appear on UK soil).

But paying out £90+ for a set of tyres, given the bike will also do tarmac commuting duties, tyre wear does concern me!

In the meantime, I shall probably order at least one pair of 3.5 On-One BSCs from the latest sale at Planet X, for £30 a set.

I've got an old set of 26x2.35 Super Motos available in the garage, but I would hazard a guess that even if I got them to hold on the Wazoo's 80mm rims, ground clearance for the pedal stroke would be very tight.


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## Fat Biker (Mar 3, 2007)

NitrousOxide said:


> I'm looking to shed ~1-1.5Kg tyre weight by swapping out 4.0 Mission Commands that came as stock on my Voodoo Wazoo for either a set of 4.0 JJs or Juggernaut Pros (if the latter ever appear on UK soil).
> 
> But paying out £90+ for a set of tyres, given the bike will also do tarmac commuting duties, does concern me!
> 
> I've got an old set of 26x2.35 Super Motos available in the garage, but I would hazard a guess that even if I got them to hold on the Wazoo's 80mm rims, ground clearance for the pedal stroke would be very tight.


Ridewill.it is where I got my JJ's from. It's Italian but has options for English. 
But beware. I bought JJ 4.0 liteskins that came in at 1107g and 1135g NOT even close to the advertised weight of 990G. There is another European company where I got my J Pro's from that escapes me. If I remember I'll edit this post. 
But again both over weight at what US buyers are getting. 
880-913g as opposed to 835-850g. 
Postage is the killer too (see the checkout total NOT what it says in headers and ad's). 
JJ's came out at around £119 and J Pro's £97ish. Remember exchange rates fluctuate though.

Fat Biker


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

4.8" liteskins with sharp ended aluminum bodied studs. I drilled shallow holes for the studs again, I've noticed that you get a lot better grip studs well out and the rolling resistance is still reasonable. I only use them on ice and snow and zero studs lost.

I had 4" JJ's before and the 4.8" is a much better on snow. A lot stabler in the front.


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## dirtyroadie66 (Nov 21, 2014)

Anyone with puncture issues on the Jumbo Jims? My Fat Caad came with JJ 4.8s and yes they seem light compared to my tried and true Bud and Lous but they are paper thin. The other day I was on a gravel road connecting trails when a pointy, though not particularly sharp stone punctured the front tire, spewing Stans all over me and the bike. The hole was too big for the sealant to work, luckily I carry a tube and was rolling in short order. That stone NEVER would have punctured my Surly Bud and thus Bud is back on the bike.Steers more naturally anyway and if I was worried about a few ounces I would cut back on my Beer consumption. I left JJ on the rear until that one lets me down, then Lou is coming out of seasonal layoff. The Jumbo Jims were very easy to convert to tubeless, as were the Surlys.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

dirtyroadie66 said:


> My Fat Caad came with JJ 4.8s and yes they seem light compared to my tried and true Bud and Lous but they are paper thin. ...If I was worried about a few ounces I would cut back on my Beer consumption. .


This is really the whole issue in a nutshell, isn't it?! Not applicable to just the JJ, but all tires... along with about 75% of the threads on the forum.

People want it both ways, but can't have it.

(Clearly, you aren't in the weight weenie category, so I realize you aren't one of those people.)

I didn't understand and am curious though - are you saying the JJ steers better than the Bud, or vice versa?


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Lite Skin JJ's aren't known for their durability. Gotta pay the 100+gr weight penalty and get the Snake Skin's if you want a tire that won't puncture if something sharp looks at it.


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## dirtyroadie66 (Nov 21, 2014)

iamkeith said:


> This is really the whole issue in a nutshell, isn't it?! Not applicable to just the JJ, but all tires... along with about 75% of the threads on the forum.
> 
> People want it both ways, but can't have it.
> 
> ...


 Definitely NOT a weight wienie! Been at it too long, would rather be bomb proof.
I find that the Bud steers more naturally for me than the JJ. I really tried to get the right feel from the JJ, but unless I was running 17 or more PSI it just felt like it was steering me and not vice versa. I was scared at first and thought it was my new bike but after I switched to my Bud (Which I had on a previous fatbike) the steering felt right again with lower pressures.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Jumbo Jim Liteskin Tubeless Conversion*

Here's my tubeless conversion using 2 layers of 3M tough duct tape, stans tubeless valve and stans sealant.


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## Cold Trigger Finger (Aug 4, 2015)

Good thread. I know Banshee Rune really likes his JJs on his new RSD Mayor. I like bomb proof so the Snake Skins would be what I would be interested in.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I purchased a pair of JJ 4.8 LiteSkins last week to get the fatty something in the way of a 3 season tire. They are nice and light and roll very well at any pressure. I lowered the pressure to ride in sugar sand and they float nicely. Getting outta the sand and back to harder surfaces, they have zero self steer. Personally don't care for SnakeSkin due to the stiff sidewalls making em feel springless and dead. I have a slight weight advantage that helps with light tires and a light riding style that makes em work for a 160# rider. Trials makes for a light riding style, indeed! 
A special thanks goes out to Mr. RedSky for his patience and skills training! 

The Mayor likes his new shoes! :cornut:


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## Meriwether74 (Jan 23, 2016)

An update to my posts above -- some longer perspective on these tires.

The point made earlier about compromise is spot on. These tires (4.8 lite skin) are fast. Light and very low rolling resistance. Set PRs on my local trails (SE Michigan) on a FATBIKE!

But...

They are fragile. I've been getting a flat every 5-10 rides. Sometimes pinch, sometimes thorn. I run with 24" q-tubes, with 2-3 oz of stans. I've started running with higher pressure to mitigate risk of pinch flats. Could set up tubeless, but then snakeskin better and ends up negating the weight savings.

By comparison, my old ground control 4.6s never had a flat. Not one! 

I recently put the GCs back on and it made another thing clear. There is a lot more traction with the GCs. Partly it's the tread, but I also think that the stiffer sidewall and rounder profile plays a role. With the GCs, I can lean the bike deeper in the corners, and when the drifts begin, they are a lot easier to control. Felt like I was suddenly a much better rider. Reached record speeds in short downhill sections.

To be clear, the JJs are still faster on 90% of the trail...but definitely slower in the corners/technical downhills.

Because of this, I'm putting them back on the shelf for a while. I'll use for races, but my love of fatbikes relates to the insane traction in corners, and the character of the riding -- crushing the turns to maximize momentum. JJs faster, but they compromise the soul of the fatbike for me.


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

*snakeskin vs liteskin USED*


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Is there a specific problem or are you just showing how the sidewalls wear differently between the 2 carcass types?


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

Just to show the difference, but the funny thing is that the snakeskin was seeping stans trough the side walls, mine liteskin has always been seep free. Could be just a case of old stans though...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Could be the way they lay up the mesh and then swap the rubber compound over it leaving a more porous surface. 
I like the springy feel of the liteskin over the dead feel of the snakeskin.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Meriwether74 said:


> An update to my posts above -- some longer perspective on these tires.
> 
> The point made earlier about compromise is spot on. These tires (4.8 lite skin) are fast. Light and very low rolling resistance. Set PRs on my local trails (SE Michigan) on a FATBIKE!
> 
> ...


To me, one flat is too much... I have not flat in 3 years on my mtb of fatbike. JJ are so easy to setup tubeless (liteskin version). I have clownshoe rims. Last year, I used 3m transparent duct tape and it held for 6 month. This summer, I tried with fatty stripper and foam rod. Sooooo easy... I run 5.5-6 psi front and 7.5-8.5 rear. I get good traction for technical NE riding except in really wet condition over slippery rocks. I did some winter riding as well but the grip wasn't enough for my area/snow condition


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Meriwether74 said:


> An update to my posts above -- some longer perspective on these tires.
> 
> The point made earlier about compromise is spot on. These tires (4.8 lite skin) are fast. Light and very low rolling resistance. Set PRs on my local trails (SE Michigan) on a FATBIKE!
> 
> ...


I have never had a flat with my fat daily driver. Bud/Lou, D5's and JJ L/S. But then I don't ride the local land fill or the neighbors rose garden. I am the anti Clydes which is a benefit from trials. There is a major difference between the D5's and the JJ's. Day and night in terms of rolling resistance. Day and night in terms of cornering traction. Can't complain 'bout em. The springy feel is awesome in getting trialsy on the trails. Lord knows, the fatbike has been a Godsend in Jeepin around in the Rocky Mountains!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Looks like the New middle size JJ is out of the bag. they have the 26 x 4.4 now listed on their website.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Jefflinde said:


> Looks like the New middle size JJ is out of the bag. they have the 26 x 4.4 now listed on their website.


Cool. Just schwable.com, not the US schwalbetires.com just yet. I definitely want to try these for the rear on our 170mm 9:zero:7 frames.


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

Picked up a set of JJ 4.0 snakeskins. 1136 grams and 1128 grams. Mounting them to 65mm Lightbicycle Carbon hoops. For a little over 100 grams, I went with the safe route instead of the Liteskin.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

With winter approaching I decided to install a few studs. If they hold for a few weeks, I'll try adding some to the inner knobs. If they don't hold, then I'll try some marine adhesive and see if that does the job. I used a 1/8 inch drill bit to create the stud holes (per VMK's video on studding these tires).


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Anyone know the thread depth of the jj 4.0 liteskins?


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Vegard said:


> Anyone know the thread depth of the jj 4.0 liteskins?


4-6mm


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

Lars_D said:


> With winter approaching I decided to install a few studs. If they hold for a few weeks, I'll try adding some to the inner knobs. If they don't hold, then I'll try some marine adhesive and see if that does the job. I used a 1/8 inch drill bit to create the stud holes (per VMK's video on studding these tires).
> 
> View attachment 1093442


Nice. What kind of studs did you use. I wondering do the same with jumbo jim.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

frl said:


> Nice. What kind of studs did you use. I wondering do the same with jumbo jim.


For this test, I used some generic studs I had laying around. If it works I'll use 45nrth concave studs--the new larger kind if I can get them.


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

*JJ 4.0" on 80mm vs. JJ 4.8" on 100mm*


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

I've had a couple of rides on the 4.0s now and they've performed good for the trails around here, on roots though they were just as scary as my 2.5 minions on my other bike. I ran them at about 8-psi with tubes.

I need/want a 4.8 for snow season, but I haven't really decided wether or not it's going to be JJs.


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## vmk (Jul 12, 2015)

I had studded 4" and 4.8" JJ's last winter, very happy with the 4.8". 4" is great for commuting, but no good in softer stuff.

On a 100mm rim and the 4.8" crazy low pressures are possible when necessary:


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## uwprunner (Sep 16, 2009)

How did you stud these and what were your results? Any pictures of the studded tires you can share?


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

uwprunner said:


> How did you stud these and what were your results? Any pictures of the studded tires you can share?


Yes. There are some pictures in this thread from me and VMK.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

*Studded JJ 4.8*



vmk said:


> 4.8" liteskins with sharp ended aluminum bodied studs. I drilled shallow holes for the studs again, I've noticed that you get a lot better grip studs well out and the rolling resistance is still reasonable. I only use them on ice and snow and zero studs lost.
> 
> I had 4" JJ's before and the 4.8" is a much better on snow. A lot stabler in the front.


VMK, how have these been holding up for you? Do the studs stay in fairly well without any additional retention (silicone glue etc.)?
Any recommendations for me when I do my own tires? This is very exciting for me since I've been looking for studded tires; I already have a brand new Pair of 4.8's as well as a pack of 500 flat studs... Thanks for sharing and any assistance!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have a fresh set of JJ 4.0 Snakeskin for sale. They can be packaged with a set of fresh Bronze Surly Large Marge 65mm rims, spokes could be included if they'll fit your hubs.

PM with offers


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Hopefully this diagram will help some of you determine whether to go 4.0, 4.4, 4.8 inch based upon tire size and your frame.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

^Thanks Steve. I notice that the diagram shows the 4.0" and 4.4" tires on 75mm rims. I'm hoping that the 4.4" will mount up a little narrower on my 65mm Marge Lites so that maybe I can run one in the rear of my Pugs. I plan to try a 4.4"er. If it doesn't fit in the rear, I'll run it up front, and put a 4"on the rear. That's still wider than my Nanuks, which are barely 3 9/16". 
These are looking like my next set of fat tires, but I'll still be rolling on my Nanuks for the remainder of the winter, and well into spring.


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## elviiis (Aug 27, 2015)

I used 4.0 lite skin whole year setup on 47mm wide trialtech rims. Wide of tyre on knobs is 95mm.

I tested make tubules setup twice, but without success. I expected problem is that tyre not sit in feet of rim properly. Without inner tube or with very low pressure, tyre jump out from feets and start be excentric. Maybe split inner tube should be a solution.

For whole year riding i think this is good, like super plus size tyres  For sand and snow riding I thing is better use narrower tyre on wider rims like 4.0 on 85mm rim than wider tyre on narrower rim like 4.4 on 65mm rim. Just one benefit is, most manufacture make bigger knob on wider tyre, but flotation can give you more traction and smooth ride on snow and sand than bigger knob.

I make on my frames 128mm space for tyres than I can use most 4.8 - 5.0 tyre on 85mm rim ( these setup is form 115 to 120mm wide). But i think for most riding 4.0 is fine, but I probably change my mind again with fresh snow and make second sets of wheels for winter .


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Elviiis, a rim without the UST seat style makes tubeless very difficult. At low pressure unreliable. Trail Tech rims do not have the UST bead seat.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Lars_D said:


> For this test, I used some generic studs I had laying around. If it works I'll use 45nrth concave studs--the new larger kind if I can get them.


How's your stud job holding up? I dropped a couple into a Minion FBF based on your work and they've held fine on a couple of pretty spirited dirt rides. Just trying to figure out how to get consistent pocket drill depth. I'd rather not unmount them to use a drill press.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Cerpss said:


> .... Just trying to figure out how to get consistent pocket drill depth. I'd rather not unmount them to use a drill press.


Stop collar or a piece of tape?


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Cerpss said:


> How's your stud job holding up? I dropped a couple into a Minion FBF based on your work and they've held fine on a couple of pretty spirited dirt rides. Just trying to figure out how to get consistent pocket drill depth. I'd rather not unmount them to use a drill press.


Holds up great. I cut the bit in half and pushed it into the drill far enough that only the right length stuck out.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Any one have the 4.4s yet? Curious what the actual outer mounted diameter are on these?


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

bme107 said:


> Stop collar or a piece of tape?


Thanks for the suggestions. I had tried the tape and it's too easy to drill too deep. I 3D printed some collars/spacers to slide onto the bit so I don't have to cut a bit down. I haven't gotten to try them yet but it should work


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

750mm on 80mm rim, tubeless at 7psi



nitrousjunky said:


> Any one have the 4.4s yet? Curious what the actual outer mounted diameter are on these?


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> Any one have the 4.4s yet? Curious what the actual outer mounted diameter are on these?


Look above post #589 from 3 days ago I put up the drawing. The DIA is shown on the drawing.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> Look above post #589 from 3 days ago I put up the drawing. The DIA is shown on the drawing.


I saw that, but I wanted actual production product numbers.



shoo said:


> 750mm on 80mm rim, tubeless at 7psi


Thanks!!


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## Zinzinnati (Jan 30, 2011)

Lars_D said:


> Holds up great. I cut the bit in half and pushed it into the drill far enough that only the right length stuck out.


I may have missed an earlier post of yours, but how deep a pocket did you make? I like how high your studs are sitting in your tires and I'm considering doing this to a set of juggernaut sport tires. Just to confirm, you used a 5 mm drill bit?

Cheers.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I feel compelled to mentions something about the JJ Liteskins. A friend has run them for the last 6 months and had 11 flats on the rear tube and one on the tire itself. He said he pretty much plans on a flat when he goes out and is surprised when he doesn't get one.

He switched to a FBR and hasn't had a single flat so he plans on a FBF as well. While the tires are nice and light, the weight is starting to add up with all the patches. He also said the traction with the BFR is light years ahead of the JJ.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Zinzinnati said:


> I may have missed an earlier post of yours, but how deep a pocket did you make? I like how high your studs are sitting in your tires and I'm considering doing this to a set of juggernaut sport tires. Just to confirm, you used a 5 mm drill bit?
> 
> Cheers.


1/8 inch drill bit. Depth is roughly the height of the nobs which varies across the tire. Here is my video on how to do it...


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Dilligaff said:


> I feel compelled to mentions something about the JJ Liteskins. A friend has run them for the last 6 months and had 11 flats on the rear tube and one on the tire itself. He said he pretty much plans on a flat when he goes out and is surprised when he doesn't get one.
> 
> He switched to a FBR and hasn't had a single flat so he plans on a FBF as well. While the tires are nice and light, the weight is starting to add up with all the patches. He also said the traction with the BFR is light years ahead of the JJ.


That is why I am running Snakeskin Tubeless! Will find out how they hold up.

I have a Maxxis Minion FBR with the EXO protection and I think the tire is too heavy.


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## Zinzinnati (Jan 30, 2011)

Lars_D said:


> 1/8 inch drill bit. Depth is roughly the height of the nobs which varies across the tire. Here is my video on how to do it...


Thanks for the response and thanks for the video. I'm going to give it a go with a drill press and my juggernauts. I'll post my progress in another thread.

Cheers


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> That is why I am running Snakeskin Tubeless! Will find out how they hold up.
> 
> I have a Maxxis Minion FBR with the EXO protection and I think the tire is too heavy.


Been riding the liteskin tubeless here in Michigan all summer. Not one issue. I had to top it off a few times through the summer but that's probably due to a poor tape job.


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## Andy81 (Jan 25, 2016)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> That is why I am running Snakeskin Tubeless! Will find out how they hold up.
> 
> I have a Maxxis Minion FBR with the EXO protection and I think the tire is too heavy.


Snakeskins set up tubeless are bulletproof. I've been mashing through sharp rocks and branches without a single worry.

Edit: 4.8s though, but nevertheless; perfect for summer. Light, decent tracktion, very strong.


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## Zinzinnati (Jan 30, 2011)

Lars_D said:


> 1/8 inch drill bit. Depth is roughly the height of the nobs which varies across the tire. Here is my video on how to do it...


The Juggernaut knobs are not broad enough to support a tire stud (measured some nokian studs that I have). I may have to find a used jumbo Jim to try the studding on.

Thanks again.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Dilligaff said:


> I feel compelled to mentions something about the JJ Liteskins. A friend has run them for the last 6 months and had 11 flats on the rear tube and one on the tire itself. He said he pretty much plans on a flat when he goes out and is surprised when he doesn't get one.
> 
> He switched to a FBR and hasn't had a single flat so he plans on a FBF as well. While the tires are nice and light, the weight is starting to add up with all the patches. He also said the traction with the BFR is light years ahead of the JJ.


I'm intrigued - how are some of those patches on the inner surface of the tube?


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## shoo (Nov 11, 2008)

Looks like pinch flats, generally caused by too low of pressure for given terrain resulting in rims strikes.



JackWare said:


> I'm intrigued - how are some of those patches on the inner surface of the tube?


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Been running JJs 4.8 and 4.4 tubeless with Snakeskin sidewall on some trails with quite a few rocks with no flats.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have a set of fresh JJs 4.0 snakeskin looking for a good home. PM with offers. Located in WA.


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## ironacct (Jan 2, 2012)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> Been running JJs 4.8 and 4.4 tubeless with Snakeskin sidewall on some trails with quite a few rocks with no flats.


I'm in the market for some new winter tires and was wondering if the actual mounted width of your 4.4 is true to the diagram in post #589. I've got Marge Lites and RDs, so wondering if it would fit either as a rear option on a Pugs.


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## snigs (Feb 8, 2010)

Happy to report that the 4.8 LS JJs are very good in the snow. Broke trail in 3-5 inches of fresh, light powder on some steep climbs at Hayden Green Mountain in Colorado, today (if you know the climb at the W Florida main lot, you know how steep that one is). Temps in the teens, cloudy, 3 psi, Mulefut 80s tubeless using the SunRingle strips and tape (flawless setup, highly recommend for sanity maintenance), first ride with my new 9zero7 Whiteout, 28/42 low gearing. Badass. Great everywhere else, even on a new switchback that has a steep entry. Super satisfied. Only stopped riding because my big toes were damn cold! :eekster:









Next ride, moar deeper!!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

How are the 4.4 JJ's coming out for size and weight compared to stated values? i have the 4.8's and love them but i am thinking about the 4.4's on a set of 65mm rims.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Jefflinde said:


> How are the 4.4 JJ's coming out for size and weight compared to stated values? i have the 4.8's and love them but i am thinking about the 4.4's on a set of 65mm rims.


4.4's on 65's sounds rather nice!


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

On the 4.8 inch tires the 4.8 dimension is running 4.5xx on a 80mm Sun Ringle Mulefut ~ 8 psi

On the 4.4 inch tires the 4.4 dimension is running 4.2xx on a 80 mm Sun Ringle Mulefut ~ 8 psi

The picture of the tire on my bike is a 4.8 and the 4.4 solved the clearance problem. Hope this helps.

My opinion is go for the 4.4 on the 65 mm rim if you have the clearance and want more tire volume.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> On the 4.4 inch tires the 4.4 dimension is running 4.2xx on a 80 mm Sun Ringle Mulefut ~ 8 psi


Any chance of pics of what the tire profile looks like on your Mulefut?

Curious how much rim protection this combo gives, as I'm debating whether to try this on my Mulefut rims or switch to some 65mm rims with 4s.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I'll try to get you a pic of JJ 4.0 on my 65's later this morning. They look appropriately proportionate on the 65's and ride really really really well...on dry. Don't think this would go on snow (edit - the kind of snow I ride around here).


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> I'll try to get you a pic of JJ 4.0 on my 65's later this morning. They look appropriately proportionate on the 65's and ride really really really well...on dry. Don't think this would go on snow.


Sweet, I would like to see pics of that combo too!


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> I'll try to get you a pic of JJ 4.0 on my 65's later this morning. They look appropriately proportionate on the 65's and ride really really really well...on dry. Don't think this would go on snow.


While they might not be ideal on snow, it doesn't hurt to remember that the fat bike revolution was started by bikes with 65mm rims and tires with basically no tread.


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## slabber (Jun 23, 2010)

Jefflinde said:


> How are the 4.4 JJ's coming out for size and weight compared to stated values? i have the 4.8's and love them but i am thinking about the 4.4's on a set of 65mm rims.


Bought two LS 4.40's. One was 1128g, the other 1145g.

Running them tubeless on Marge Lites. Very pleased. Fits the rear of 170mm 9:zero:7 frame well. 4.8 LS on front.

I liken these tires to Dugast for cyclocross. Probably the lightest and most supple for the size. Work well in soft snow when aired down appropriately.


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

*4.0 versus 4.8 ?*

Question for you guys who have ridden the JJ's snakeskin...*if you had to choose either the 4.0 or 4.8" size to run on a bike that could comfortably run either, which would you choose and why?*

I need to commit to one size or the other for a build I'm having done...will be running tubeless on mulefut SL 80s. Most of my riding will be dryer conditions (sandy soil, rocks, grass, some trail), with a few snow rides each year.

Thanks!


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## EBG 18T (Dec 31, 2005)

Coyotefred said:


> Question for you guys who have ridden the JJ's snakeskin...*if you had to choose either the 4.0 or 4.8" size to run on a bike that could comfortably run either, which would you choose and why?*
> 
> I need to commit to one size or the other for a build I'm having done...will be running tubeless on mulefut SL 80s. Most of my riding will be dryer conditions (sandy soil, rocks, grass, some trail), with a few snow rides each year.
> 
> Thanks!


For drier conditions I prefer the narrower 4.0", just a tad bit faster. If these 4.4" versions become easier to get that would be a nice option.


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

Yeah I was thinking the 4.4's too, but my builder says they'd be considerably more expensive compared to the other too.

I think I remember reading that the 4.8s are really closer to 4.3/4.4 on the rim, so wondering whether that means the 4.0s are closer to 3.6-3.7"?



EBG 18T said:


> For drier conditions I prefer the narrower 4.0", just a tad bit faster. If these 4.4" versions become easier to get that would be a nice option.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Coyotefred said:


> Question for you guys who have ridden the JJ's snakeskin...*if you had to choose either the 4.0 or 4.8" size to run on a bike that could comfortably run either, which would you choose and why?*
> 
> I need to commit to one size or the other for a build I'm having done...will be running tubeless on mulefut SL 80s. Most of my riding will be dryer conditions (sandy soil, rocks, grass, some trail), with a few snow rides each year.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm stickin with 4.8 due to the feel and ride. 4's aren't as comfortable to me. I'm not trying to make a Jeep into a dragster either, just rockcrawling and hitting sand, snow and loose forest floor style riding. The 4.8 doesn't break loose as easy as 4.0 and riding pressure is lower for more traction in addition to their already super sweet fatness. My JJ's roll very nicely as well with zero self steer when I air em down. A wee bit more BB clearance as well with 4.8.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Coyotefred said:


> I think I remember reading that the 4.8s are really closer to 4.3/4.4 on the rim, so wondering whether that means the 4.0s are closer to 3.6-3.7"?


My JJ 4s measure 3.9+ on 80mm rims.


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

I have been putting miles on my 4.8 front and 4.4 rear JJ's with snakeskin. Riding in MA/NH area winter things have been great.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Steve_MTB_22 said:


> On the 4.8 inch tires the 4.8 dimension is running 4.5xx on a 80mm Sun Ringle Mulefut ~ 8 psi
> 
> On the 4.4 inch tires the 4.4 dimension is running 4.2xx on a 80 mm Sun Ringle Mulefut ~ 8 psi
> 
> ...


RM Blizzard? I was pretty ticked off when my 4.8 didn't fit. They made lots of clearance everywhere else, and then stuck the stupid seatstay bridge right in the way.


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Yes RM Blizzard for me 2015. I went with 4.8 in front for the sand/snow and 4.4 in the back for clearance (and I have plenty of clearance) I posted tire dimension on an 80 mm Mulefut previously. I have a couple of buddies doing the same in front and going with the biggest they can fit on the back depending on their frame. I also run Beaver Guard fenders front and back.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I just picked up a 4.0 for the rear, right before the 4.4 came out (doh!). Do you think the 4.4 would fit with grip studs?


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

So you'd be running 4.8s in back too if you had the clearance?



Steve_MTB_22 said:


> Yes RM Blizzard for me 2015. I went with 4.8 in front for the sand/snow and 4.4 in the back for clearance (and I have plenty of clearance) I posted tire dimension on an 80 mm Mulefut previously. I have a couple of buddies doing the same in front and going with the biggest they can fit on the back depending on their frame. I also run Beaver Guard fenders front and back.


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## Steve_MTB_22 (Jan 22, 2016)

Picture 4.4" JJ on Mulefut 80mm

Answering a few previous questions: 2015 Blizzard Size M- My fender is .035" thick and mounted tight to the seat stay crossbar. I can get a .25" wood shim in between the fender and the rear nubs then gently spin the tire. When I go up to a .30" wood shim it gets tight. So the clearance without a fender at 7 psi is somewhere between .285"- .335".

Do your math on the grip studs. The lugs on this tire are lower profile in the center. Search this string a previous poster even has a link to his method of installing studs. He seems very experienced and did not stud the center which is a loss. My opinion after riding this bike the past couple of years is to use the JJ tires for all around usage until there is lots of ice. Then I would put on a pair of Dillenger 5s. Not sure what is new this year. I own a set of Vee Rubber SnowShoe XLs and although they are better on the price point, I think the Dillenger 5s have a better rubber compound that does not snowball as much, 5s have the self sharpening studs, and as I recall I think the 5s were most likely slightly lighter (you should check those numbers). I was sketchy on the 5s initially because I ride a lot of pointed rocks and was concerned about tearing the sidewall- would probably reconsider as riding buddy has the 5s and they have held up well. I also have another buddy with the 4s which do not float as well as the 5s in heavy snow but are a great tire.

I would only run a 4.8 on the back if it were light which is why I bought the 4.8 initially that was rubbing. I bought the Maxxis Minion FBR late last year with side wall protection and that tire was way to heavy to spin. That is why I went with the JJs. 4.8 will give you better float but the 4.4 will be sufficient from what I have seen and is a little lighter if you are going to run it all year as a 2nd bike like I do. Glad it turned out the way it did because the 4.4 is a nice option for the rear.


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

Hey thanks...very helpful information!



Steve_MTB_22 said:


> View attachment 1113752
> 
> Picture 4.4" JJ on Mulefut 80mm
> [snip]
> ...


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I am not sure where your builder is looking but the 4.4s are the same $$$ as the other 2. Bike24.com has them for $5 more then the 4.0 and $5 less then the 4.8. Also I have not heard of the 4.8s being smaller then stated by much if any. I am running the 4.8 on 100mm rims and they are huge. I don't have them on now since all our trails in MN are ice but if you can fit 4.8s I would go that route. If not then get 4.4s. The 4.0s to Lee seem too small and didn't ride as well. I replaced the 4s I had with the 4.8s and never looked back.



Coyotefred said:


> Yeah I was thinking the 4.4's too, but my builder says they'd be considerably more expensive compared to the other too.
> 
> I think I remember reading that the 4.8s are really closer to 4.3/4.4 on the rim, so wondering whether that means the 4.0s are closer to 3.6-3.7"?


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## FlowinFlo (Jan 29, 2012)

The Jim 4.4" also is a nicely fitting tire (in this case on a Mulefut) for the rear of an On One Fatty:


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

This was the review I had read where the measured width on the 4.8 (at 10psi on a 100mm...maybe that is the diff?) was around 4.4

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/0...superlight-jumbo-jim-4-8-wide-fat-bike-tires/

Good to know on the 4.0s being a little on the small side....I think the 4.8s are probably the way to go. Do you like to how they roll for your non-snow riding (when it finally melts in MN?!)



Jefflinde said:


> I am not sure where your builder is looking but the 4.4s are the same $$$ as the other 2. Bike24.com has them for $5 more then the 4.0 and $5 less then the 4.8. Also I have not heard of the 4.8s being smaller then stated by much if any. I am running the 4.8 on 100mm rims and they are huge. I don't have them on now since all our trails in MN are ice but if you can fit 4.8s I would go that route. If not then get 4.4s. The 4.0s to Lee seem too small and didn't ride as well. I replaced the 4s I had with the 4.8s and never looked back.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I love how they roll. We have kinda loamy dirt in the spring and summer and then I dries out and packs down in the fall. The JJs stick extremely well on everything. They are also super fast on pavement when I ride to the trails. I have had one puncture but is was the stump of a small tree cut off at an angle. Like a pungy stake so I can't really fault them. Over all I have been very happy with these and the weight is amazing.



Coyotefred said:


> This was the review I had read where the measured width on the 4.8 (at 10psi on a 100mm...maybe that is the diff?) was around 4.4
> 
> https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/0...superlight-jumbo-jim-4-8-wide-fat-bike-tires/
> 
> Good to know on the 4.0s being a little on the small side....I think the 4.8s are probably the way to go. Do you like to how they roll for your non-snow riding (when it finally melts in MN?!)


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## keifla123 (Mar 7, 2013)

I only have 2 rides on my JJ 4.8's but they roll a ton faster than the stock 4.6" Ground Controls that came on my Fatboy. Each tire also weighs about 150 grams less then the GC as well in the Snakeskin variant.

This is on dirt as we don't have much of the white stuff here in NC.



Jefflinde said:


> I love how they roll. We have kinda loamy dirt in the spring and summer and then I dries out and packs down in the fall. The JJs stick extremely well on everything. They are also super fast on pavement when I ride to the trails. I have had one puncture but is was the stump of a small tree cut off at an angle. Like a pungy stake so I can't really fault them. Over all I have been very happy with these and the weight is amazing.


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

20 psi I measured jj4.8 LS at 4.6" on 90 nextie rim.
If your frame can handle 4.8". Just go for it. 4.8" soften the condition mutch better. And they role faster then 29er racing Ralph. I tried. Side by side. All so against 27.5+. Way faster on every thing. Don't remember what brand. They where using tubes. I run tubeless. And tubeless helps with rolling resistance. That was on 1980 g wheelset 80 mm carbon singel wall.
JJ 4.8" LS is the tyre for me. Make fat biking even more fun. 
Got 2 pairs of them. One pair with almost 300 Schwalbe studs in each tyre.


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## Coyotefred (Dec 21, 2016)

Hey thanks everyone for the feedback...the 4.8s sound like a great choice and what I'm going with!


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

My bike came with 4.0 JJ standard, which were pretty good after skinny mtb tires, discovered fat biking on them. Then I upgraded to 4.8 JJ (liteskin) tubeless+100mm chinese carbon rims and the upgrade feel was huge... Better on sand, snow, everywhere. 4.0 started to feel like 2.4 mtb tires. I have two bikes, one 4.0 on alu 80mm rims and 4.8 on 100mm, and 4.8 rides faster everywhere I can go, faster in terms of time spend on standard course + fun factor.
But need to note that my weight is 95kg+, I suspect that 4.0 might be better at lower rider weight.

Had punctured JJ 4.8 twice (in about 6 month riding?), typically on wood branches (or whatever happens to them making then as sharp as awl on the road being ridden over). No problemo with tubeless sealant, just keep going and inflate with handpump if pressure drops too low. Had 1 puncture on 4.0 JJ once too, same wood awl. 

Problems encountered:
1) on very low pressures liteskin (dont know if snakeskin is different) rear tire like to burp at bead and sealant starts to go away. You can even press sidewall with finger to make air to escape. Dunno if its for all tires or just JJ? Need to be carefull when riding at low pressure.
2) Front tire washouts on ice (any speed) or snow going downhill (i.e. relatively fast). 

Will try to get 45nrth flowbeist/dunderbeist for a new bike build, and see if the mentioned problems will be reduced. The price differencw is huge though! JJ go here at 60-70 EUR, while beists at 130. So for a pair you need to pay more then twice. 

Sent from my SM-G900F


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

There's a pair of JJ liteskin 4.8's on both ends of my Mayor and I love em. At the moment they are tubed with Surly Lite's and have been highly reliable. I've not been so inclined to tubeless as it makes a tire swap go from 5 minutes to a three ring circus getting that chore done. 
Ice requires the use of studded tires, pure and simple. I tired 4.0's that I borrowed from a friend to test and was unimpressed. My collection of 4.8's just feel better all around. I ride both + and fat with Sarge and Mayor year round cause they are plain groovier than small tires.

With your tubeless setup, if there's burping from low psi and a simple squeeze, another layer of tape is in order. Bud/Lou do this with single wrap of gorilla tape. A double wrap cures it. I ran the Surly's (Which are the loosest fitting tire on the market) with 2.5f, 3.0r for sand riding and had the burp and sealant leakage. I still have been way too lazy to tubeless the JJ's. Gotta say, I love the feel of the JJ's. Springy and trialsy, indeed!
They are the cat's meow...


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## foresterLV (Dec 25, 2016)

Moved my 4.8 JJ liteskins to 80mm alu rims (non tubeless ready) and tubeless seems to work just great, no air leakage for two hours ride or any signs of sealant coming out of the beads, was using two layers of gorilla tape (adds 100g!) indeed. Was not running at low pressures today though.

As side effect JJ on 80 rim are considerable narrower than on 100mm rim, differency can be clearly seen when putting two wheels together. I suspect 4.6/4.5 tires on 100mm rim will be close to 4.8 tire size on 80mm.

BTW have noticed that Schwalbe sealant (same as Stans) on JJ decreased tire internal diameter by few millimeters - it accumulates on the bead base. Removing sealant-grown tire from tubeless ready 100mm rim required use of motorcycle tire levers, no way it could be removed with hands or plastic bicycle tire levers. When installing tire to new rim I didnt removed sealant build up, sticks good and you need less tape at bead base.



Sent from my SM-G900F


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

Lars_D said:


> 1/8 inch drill bit. Depth is roughly the height of the nobs which varies across the tire. Here is my video on how to do it...


Lars_D, thanks for the video! I studded my tires awhile back with some stainless sheet metal screws. I had great grip, but it was temporary. I'm not on to find a new method to get carbide studs into my tires, and it looks like you've got it down.

My question is this: Do you recommend a drop of marine sealant or super glue in each hole that you drill before putting the stud in? Or have yours been holding well without it?

Thanks!


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

aflage said:


> My question is this: Do you recommend a drop of marine sealant or super glue in each hole that you drill before putting the stud in? Or have yours been holding well without it?
> 
> Thanks!


Unless you want to stud the center row, marine sealant is not required, the studs will stay in just fine. If you do stud the center row, you'll likely lose some studs over time, but I would be hesitant to use sealant for fear that the lug would come off with the stud and damage the tire.

I had my 4.8 hand studded Jumbo Jim (front is a dillinger 5) out on the snow machine trails over the weekend. I was really impressed. When the snow was firm and the pressure was high, the rolling resistance was low and when the snow was soft and the pressure low (so that the side lugs could engage) the grip was good. Grip on ice was also excellent. I was very pleased.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Dilligaff said:


> I feel compelled to mentions something about the JJ Liteskins. A friend has run them for the last 6 months and had 11 flats on the rear tube and one on the tire itself. He said he pretty much plans on a flat when he goes out and is surprised when he doesn't get one.
> 
> He switched to a FBR and hasn't had a single flat so he plans on a FBF as well. While the tires are nice and light, the weight is starting to add up with all the patches. He also said the traction with the BFR is light years ahead of the JJ.


Lol this is why people run tubeless


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dilligaff said:


> I feel compelled to mentions something about the JJ Liteskins. A friend has run them for the last 6 months and had 11 flats on the rear tube and one on the tire itself. He said he pretty much plans on a flat when he goes out and is surprised when he doesn't get one.
> 
> He switched to a FBR and hasn't had a single flat so he plans on a FBF as well. While the tires are nice and light, the weight is starting to add up with all the patches. He also said the traction with the BFR is light years ahead of the JJ.


Hell, I haven't had but one flat with my JJ 4,8 LS's and it was caused by a goathead. 4 years I've been running the same tubes with my 3 pair of tires. 2 weeks of riding in the Tucson area which is a cactus factory and not one flat. Might be going back to tubeless but am on the fence cause it does create maintenance issues and tire changes are a marathon.

That pic shows 4 patches from clydes style riding. The rest from various sharp objects. Yeah, tubeless is a good choice if your haunts are loaded with tire poppers.


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## adam1367 (May 19, 2016)

Seems like JumboJims have become the tire of choise among russian fatbikers.
But schwalbe's quality control seems to have gotten worse over time.

My friends and I have purchased sets of 4.0, 4.4 and 4.8s via bike-discount, all LiteSkin versions

Weights are as follows:
4.0 - 1120 and 1125 grams (sic!), 1093 and 1091 grams
4.4 - 1120 and 1150 grams
4.8 - 1167 grams (sic!)

Though, I have to say, my previous two sets of 4.0LS were lighter, but requred sealant. This heavier set I setup tubeless without a single drop of sealant, and they hold air perfectly


---

Also, I saw a picture of partially studded tires, but has anyone tried studding cental rows as well?


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

adam1367 said:


> Also, I saw a picture of partially studded tires, but has anyone tried studding cental rows as well?


I love the Jumbo Jims and would buy a studded Schwalbe fat tire if they came out with them in a heart beat.

I've studded and used jj4.0's, and they're my wife's primary winter tires when there's not a lot of snow. They work great, but there is no studding the center tread, not enough depth.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

So you are just drilling a hole in the tread block and pressing them in w the tool?

They are the studs w the wide flat and inverted "T" bottom?


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

Has anyone run 4.0 jumbo jim on 80mm Mule SL? Just curious but am guessing the rim is too wide. Any insight would be appreciated. My stock wheels are 80mm width and trying to avoid having the change them to run 26x4.0 in the summer


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Averbuks said:


> Has anyone run 4.0 jumbo jim on 80mm Mule SL? Just curious but am guessing the rim is too wide. Any insight would be appreciated. My stock wheels are 80mm width and trying to avoid having the change them to run 26x4.0 in the summer


They should be fine.


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## adam1367 (May 19, 2016)

Averbuks said:


> Has anyone run 4.0 jumbo jim on 80mm Mule SL? Just curious but am guessing the rim is too wide. Any insight would be appreciated. My stock wheels are 80mm width and trying to avoid having the change them to run 26x4.0 in the summer


I'd say 80mm rim is perfect for JJ4"

Ran JJs on 80mm as well as on 60mm (internal). Liked cornering on 80mm better. 60mm feels a bit squishy given the same pressure (or rather comfort level than actual PSIs)


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

Kirkerik said:


> So you are just drilling a hole in the tread block and pressing them in w the tool?
> 
> They are the studs w the wide flat and inverted "T" bottom?


Yes, I have studded them also and that is how it is done. Here is a short video...


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## whitet777 (Sep 24, 2010)

Averbuks said:


> Has anyone run 4.0 jumbo jim on 80mm Mule SL? Just curious but am guessing the rim is too wide. Any insight would be appreciated. My stock wheels are 80mm width and trying to avoid having the change them to run 26x4.0 in the summer


I run JJ 4.0 on 85mm HED rims with no problems. Love it.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Averbuks said:


> Has anyone run 4.0 jumbo jim on 80mm Mule SL? Just curious but am guessing the rim is too wide. Any insight would be appreciated. My stock wheels are 80mm width and trying to avoid having the change them to run 26x4.0 in the summer


The 80mm rim makes for a better profile for floating on sand and loose dirt/snow. It also makes it possible to run at lower psi without issue. 4" is a non issue on 65's or 80's. There are the folks that like to run em on 47's, ewww... 
Frankly, I'll continue to use the 4.8's cause they ride well and roll very well. I enjoy my JJ's without drama on 80's.


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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> The 80mm rim makes for a better profile for floating on sand and loose dirt/snow. It also makes it possible to run at lower psi without issue. 4" is a non issue on 65's or 80's. There are the folks that like to run em on 47's, ewww...
> Frankly, I'll continue to use the 4.8's cause they ride well and roll very well. I enjoy my JJ's without drama on 80's.


Thanks for the input I appreciate it! First Fat bike for me. I am about 160 pounds suited up, and recommendation on what type of PSI I should be running the JJ 4.0 tubeless with the 80mm rims? I was thinking around 8-10 psi?


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Start there and you'll probably head lower once you get comfortable with it.

I'm 175-180 kitted up and it's not unheard of to find myself on a 4.0 w/ 65mm's at about 4psi front and 6 psi back in the summer charging east coast XC pretty fast. Touch more may be warranted depending on roots/rocks but not much.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Averbuks said:


> Thanks for the input I appreciate it! First Fat bike for me. I am about 160 pounds suited up, and recommendation on what type of PSI I should be running the JJ 4.0 tubeless with the 80mm rims? I was thinking around 8-10 psi?


Good starting point. You will find a fat 4.0/4.8 to be extremely pressure sensitive. It's unlike skinny bikes entirely. Drop pressure in 1 psi increments and ride between pressure drops.
I too am 160 #'s so can run nearly flat tires in sand and snow. Mostly running in the 4-6 psi range with liteskin's with no issues. Only flat I've ever had was a goathead in the front.
Take some time and play with the bike on smooth ground to get a feel for tire flex.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

It looks like Schwalbe is upgrading the compound on Jumbo Jim


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## mr_manny (May 15, 2016)

Jefflinde said:


> I am not sure where your builder is looking but the 4.4s are the same $$$ as the other 2. Bike24.com has them for $5 more then the 4.0 and $5 less then the 4.8.


looks like Bike24.com has the Best prices I've seen on Jumbo Jims 

thanks


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## Blue66 (Sep 18, 2016)

Best prices on Jumbo Jims - r2.bike is also a good adress in Germany:
https://r2-bike.com/Fat-Bike-Tires::Schwalbe_1


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone have width dimensions for the three sizes of Jumbo Jim's on a 65mm rim?

My new frame won't fit Minion 4.8 on a LM, need a 1/4" per side; 4.8 Minion is 4.25" at the knobs, casing is a better fit.


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## locoyokel (Mar 9, 2008)

I just measured 4.5" at the knobs, 4.3" at the casing for JJ 4.8 snakeskins on Borealis 65mm rims (tubeless). Summer tire pressure set at 9 a while back, might be more like 8 now, I didn't dig out the low tire pressure gauge to check.


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## adam1367 (May 19, 2016)

JJ 4.0 LS, 10 psi
rim: 60mm (internal), chineese carbon oem (a la nextie)

99mm (at knobs)
94mm (sidewall)


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## xenologer (Nov 1, 2016)

Jim users,

I was considering getting these,
the 4.0 size is super light and has great reviews on that rolling resistance place

but...
I ride mainly on pavement for my commute, with dirt/gravel only for a small bit of fun after work.

and those knobs look really widely spaced, like they'd be noisy and potentially worn to death in short order on pavement.

anyone have experience/advice on how well they do versus pavement?
worried that I'd just ruin them and it'd be a waste...


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## frl (Jul 22, 2014)

On pavement. The jumbos are great. Used mine for 2 years on everything. They got a bit worn. Still much left.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

I pump the JJ up to around 15 psi for the pavement, they roll great, make a little noise but not nearly as bad as other fat tires


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

If anyone is interested - Merlin Cycles in the UK are selling 4.0 Liteskins in the old Pacestar compound very cheaply to clear their stock


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Anyone tried the new addix speed grip compound yet? Specifically, I would love these tires to grip wet rock and roots better over the pacestar compound...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

xenologer said:


> Jim users,
> 
> I was considering getting these,
> the 4.0 size is super light and has great reviews on that rolling resistance place
> ...


I run the 4.8 LS version and hafta say, they roll very well and do not require absurdly high pressure. Running em @ 10 psi max and mostly around 6-7.
I love em and although I couldn't care less if tire hum or buzz as I'm cookin along, they are very quiet. Rolling resistance is lower with the JJ 4.8's than my D5's and they're actually quieter. I love em cause the feel of the LS version is very compliant and traction is good since the tire can conform to the surface and hold on tight. Sure there are other tires with better performance for dirt but with the all around performance of the JJ's, I'm a happy camper. Sand performance is very nite too, especially if I lower the psi and let em squish a little.

I'mm not a clydes or a basher so LS works nicely. Had no issue running em in Arizona for my 2 week vacation in January.








Mayor stumping on the campaign trail...

QUOTE=GspotRider;13291537]Anyone tried the new addix speed grip compound yet? Specifically, I would love these tires to grip wet rock and roots better over the pacestar compound...[/QUOTE]

Haven't tried the new compound as of yet, but hafta think about it just the same. I would be happy to have a pair in 42a single compound.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

GspotRider said:


> Anyone tried the new addix speed grip compound yet? Specifically, I would love these tires to grip wet rock and roots better over the pacestar compound...


No experience in the wet but they do grip in the dry better. I just mounted one in the front and it feels like a completely different tire. You can really feel the extra grip and damping. The compound even feels way stickier similar to 45nrth tires. I think you need a studded tire for wet roots but the new compound feels like it will grip everything better which was one of negatives of the JJ for me. It did not grip like other tires in any direction and has led to more than a few tire washout (front and rear) induced low-side crashes.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Very encouraging! I have a set of maxxis minions that I was going to remount to replace my aging JJ, but hated the extra rolling resistance over the jumbo jims. I think you have inspired me to order a new set of Speedgrip jumbo Jims. Thank you.



rcracer2 said:


> No experience in the wet but they do grip in the dry better. I just mounted one in the front and it feels like a completely different tire. You can really feel the extra grip and damping. The compound even feels way stickier similar to 45nrth tires. I think you need a studded tire for wet roots but the new compound feels like it will grip everything better which was one of negatives of the JJ for me. It did not grip like other tires in any direction and has led to more than a few tire washout (front and rear) induced low-side crashes.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Anyone have width dimensions for the three sizes of Jumbo Jim's on a 65mm rim?
> .





adam1367 said:


> JJ 4.0 LS, 10 psi
> rim: 60mm (internal), chineese carbon oem (a la nextie)
> 
> 99mm (at knobs)
> 94mm (sidewall)


My records show 4.0 LS on 65mm as 98mm
and 4.8 LS on 65mm as 110-114mm.

Have not recorded any info posted about the 4.4's.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

rcracer2 said:


> No experience in the wet but they do grip in the dry better. I just mounted one in the front and it feels like a completely different tire. You can really feel the extra grip and damping. The compound even feels way stickier similar to 45nrth tires. I think you need a studded tire for wet roots but the new compound feels like it will grip everything better which was one of negatives of the JJ for me. It did not grip like other tires in any direction and has led to more than a few tire washout (front and rear) induced low-side crashes.


How does the rolling resistance feel compared to the Pacestar compound?


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

It's on the front so I can't tell any difference. Schwalbe says it's 94% of pacestar and according to 
Fat Bike Tubeless Vs Tubes - Rolling Resistance
my rear tire is using 25.1W now at 11psi (1.5W/psi between 12&8 psi) so at 94% of that the new rolling resistance would be 26.7W
Adding a 1psi should get me back to about 25W; so it does sacrifice some straight line speed, but it can be recaptured by increasing pressure and the new compound's damping feels less bouncy due to the increase in damping so it would cancel some of the effect of higher pressure. I'll be doing the rear tire swap soon!


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

..and for rotating weight watchers like myself

JJ 4.0 liteskin Addix sample 1: 1100g


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks!

Any 4.4 results? Would it be fair to say that the sizng is honest, ie a 4.4 is 105-107mm in width on a 65mm rim?

Anyone want to trade a fresh, matched set of Minion 26 x 4.8 120tpi for a set of JJ 4.4 Snakeskin?



bme107 said:


> My records show 4.0 LS on 65mm as 98mm
> and 4.8 LS on 65mm as 110


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

JJ 4,4 Snakeskin
107mm Knob to knob on 85 rims
1235g


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Any 4.4 results? Would it be fair to say that the sizng is honest, ie a 4.4 is 105-107mm in width on a 65mm rim?


I overlooked the bead to bead numbers before. Not exactly what you're looking for but should have mentioned it.
4.0 - ???
4.4 - 245mm
4.8 - 265mm


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks,

That's helpful, I can interpolate and expect ~105 on a 65mm rim.

Now I just need to find a set.



fokof said:


> JJ 4,4 Snakeskin
> 107mm Knob to knob on 85 rims
> 1235g


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I really love the jumbo Jim! 

Does anyone else also wish they made it in Addix Soft compound to handle wet roots and rock better in steep terrain?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

GspotRider said:


> I really love the jumbo Jim!
> 
> Does anyone else also wish they made it in Addix Soft compound to handle wet roots and rock better in steep terrain?


What I would really love to see is a tire company that will let you select every aspect of a tire.

1. Casing size.
2. Casing construction (TPI and # of ply's)
3. Tread pattern.
4. Rubbuh compound.

Damn, would that be awesome or what?

On the JJ, yus, softer compound for the lighter rider would be a major benefit.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> What I would really love to see is a tire company that will let you select every aspect of a tire.
> 
> 1. Casing size.
> 2. Casing construction (TPI and # of ply's)
> ...


Yes, very much so.
You can custom spec many complete bikes. And a few sneaker companies are doing the same.

Tire production doesn't seem that agile to me though. Definitely need a dedicated line or department for it.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

bme107 said:


> Yes, very much so.
> You can custom spec many complete bikes. And a few sneaker companies are doing the same.
> 
> Tire production doesn't seem that agile to me though. Definitely need a dedicated line or department for it.


The casings are made and complete before the tread zone is applied and subsequently vulcanized onto the given casing. The tread does not exist until the vulcanization process takes place with a casing with tread blank placed into a mold, then fully inflated and baked to create the tread pattern. Bake for 20 minutes and out comes a fresh tire.

I don't think it would be that hard for it to be possible. This could be done with fewer mold swaps if the computer spits out orders with tread pattern choice being the same as well as tire size. Tread rubber durometer is chosen and applied as a blank, the mold is ready to go and doesn't care about durometer or 2 ply casing vs 120 tpi single ply. Just a pipe dream for some of us tho'. Yup, custom sneaks for my bikes would be awesome as it gets!!


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

My understanding of the process is a bit different than your 1st 2 sentences.
Continental 



Starting at 3:40 the tire is assembled on a single drum layer by layer to completion. You'd either need several extra raw material feeds linked up to the station or a way to make the assembly drum mobile to rotate between feeds. After all the layers are on there it is released from the drum where then the circular strip of "tire" is placed around the mold form and into the oven.

Schwalbe 



Starting at 4:20

The tread blank is positioned before the casing leaves the assembly drum.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes, the blank is placed before leaving the expansion drum. Having tires of 42a, 50a and 60a can be easy enough. The tougher part is vulcanizing machine setup. As in, giving you the tread pattern choice. There could be a list of tread pattern choices along with rubber compound and 27, 60, 72 and 120 tpi casing choices. At the start, a company would have to put effort forth something very few people are willing to do, let alone companies. 
Again, compound, size, are the two constraints. It would have to be done in runs of compound and size. 
Larger calls for a compound might be done on two days. Smaller runs on a single day. I know this is just a pipe dream but I thought it would be great to share such an idea. We all know how subjective tire choice is after all, it's as subjective as pressure we might ride em at.

And the blank is just that, lemme choose the tread pattern before the vulcanize takes place!! Not looking for excuses as t why it's impossible!!


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Coming up on 3600 miles on Jumbo Jim 4.0's that came stock on the Haibike Full FatSix. Mostly asphalt riding, with hard pack canal towpath trails and NJ Pine Barrens sugar sand roads in the mix.

For asphalt, I run max pressure, 30 psi (I know, I know! But it works for me! ). Good amount of wear on the center tread blocks on the rear tire which means I'll be in the market for a new rear tire. Not bad for near 4k miles on a 52 pound plus fatbike, I think.

Pulling this bike out of the box for the first time, I really felt a distinct difference in the tread hardness compared to the Ground Controls on my Fatboy.....they were definitely softer. So I figured they would wear a lot faster than the Specialized. I sure was wrong.


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

This test does not speak well about the Addix compound. I'll stick with the original version of Jim for the time being...

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews/schwalbe-racing-ralph-liteskin-addix-speed-2017


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

Jumbo Jim 26 x 4.0 @ 20 psi mounted on a Surly Rabbit Hole 50mm rim measured at the knobs (widest part) 3.8” (96.53mm). Also clears on my Manitou Magnum 27.5 boost fork. 
Mounted on 80mm rims @ 20psi 4.00" (101.7mm), measured at the knobs


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

I have been getting a little bit of weeping of sealant through the sidewall of my JJ 4.0 LS. Not losing any pressure and only when on trail but thought i'd mention it.

I generally run anywhwere from 5-7 psi in rear (where JJ is) depending and I weigh 155#


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

Kirkerik said:


> I have been getting a little bit of weeping of sealant through the sidewall of my JJ 4.0 LS. Not losing any pressure and only when on trail but thought i'd mention it.
> 
> I generally run anywhwere from 5-7 psi in rear (where JJ is) depending and I weigh 155#


What sealant are you using? There have been several mentions here on MTBR about recent shipments of Stan's being less effective than in the past. Coincidentally, or not, I purchased a quart jug of Stan's a couple of months ago and refilled a very thin walled Continental tire with it and it has been weeping like crazy.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

I had an old bottle of stans laying around so I think I used that first in the spring but have added some Serfas Tire Rx.


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

Here's a better shot on jj 4.0 on 50mm rims @ 20 psi. I rode at 20 psi to the trail, then down to 9&10 psi.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

I never posted my 4.0 Light Skins on Velocity Duallys 40mm and Paul hubs. I'm swapping out my summa fat for 27.5+ Nobby Nics 2.8 but I'll keep these for beach rides.


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## Qyota (May 25, 2011)

Anyone put Grip Studs in a 4.8 JJ? I just bought a bunch, so I'm hoping they'll work, at least in the outer 2 rows of lugs.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

Anyone ever race JJ 4.0 on groomed track? 

I've never had much luck on snow packed trails with them, but never been on groomed trails with them

I have two sets of tires, JJ 4.0 and VanHelgas. VanHelgas are a sure thing for grip, but I imagine also slower than the JJ. Unless the JJ cant grip, then VanHelgas are my only option.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

With this season being lacking, I've been less than inspired to change tires. Riding my JJ 4.8 liteskin tires on groomed is no worries. The Bud/Lou allow for more aggressive riding tho. I do ride em soft in snow of any kind for traction as opposed to float.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> With this season being lacking, I've been less than inspired to change tires. Riding my JJ 4.8 liteskin tires on groomed is no worries. The Bud/Lou allow for more aggressive riding tho. I do ride em soft in snow of any kind for traction as opposed to float.


Would you feel confident racing the JJ on groomed?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

pOrk said:


> Would you feel confident racing the JJ on groomed?


While this would be dependent on conditions, I would prolly prefer the Bud/Lou.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> While this would be dependent on conditions, I would prolly prefer the Bud/Lou.


Kind of what i was thinking. Getting agressive with a high HR and that urgency can lead to extreme grip 'situations.' Maybe be best to have the helgas just in case.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

The VH's are a great tire although, not 4.8. The deep lugs are amazing especially with lower pressure.
I agree with Mikesee on the "wrinkle count for conditions" analogy.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> The VH's are a great tire although, not 4.8. The deep lugs are amazing especially with lower pressure.
> I agree with Mikesee on the "wrinkle count for conditions" analogy.


I agree. The JJs are sitting in the rafters waiting for warmer months. The VHs have been nothing short of amazing at 2-3psi for me considering its a 4.0. I was just hoping maybe the groomed track would let me get away with the lighter jims, but seeing how this is my first fat race, and I'd like to go SPD vs flats, I don't want to be worried about grip while clipped in.

Thought about maybe getting a Flowbeist on the front. with VH on back (frame wont fit a 4.6 without going 1x, currently I have a 2x). But at this point just VH F/R should be good especially on groomed.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

pOrk said:


> I agree. The JJs are sitting in the rafters waiting for warmer months. The VHs have been nothing short of amazing at 2-3psi for me considering its a 4.0. I was just hoping maybe the groomed track would let me get away with the lighter jims, but seeing how this is my first fat race, and I'd like to go SPD vs flats, I don't want to be worried about grip while clipped in.
> 
> Thought about maybe getting a Flowbeist on the front. with VH on back (frame wont fit a 4.6 without going 1x, currently I have a 2x). But at this point just VH F/R should be good especially on groomed.


Frankly, giving the JJ's a shot with a practice run is worthy. Best way to get an idea of their snow performance is in the real world. Playing with the pressure and all that jazz is kinda fun experimentation as well.

On the flow, I've been looking at the Wratchild as well. They seem to look rather nice in terms of lug size and depth.

Dammit, I would love to be able to pick each aspect of a tire from an ala carte list from casing, tread pattern, rubbuh compound etc. and make my tires fully custom. How kewl would that be?

Since I took up observed trials, I lost all interest in SPD's since a balance check is near to impossible with em. I have a preference for platforms that have pins on the perimeter as well as under the ball of the foot. Then I don't have to wear bastardized wing tips to ride a bike!


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

Looks like I'll get to do that actually. I will have some time to hit the track a few days before. 

In the snow, I'm almost always flats. But summer singletrack, except unknown BC or really techy rides, I'm exclusively clipless. And especially races, just a cadence and motion habit I guess as I used to be flats/5-10s only for everything.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

pOrk said:


> Looks like I'll get to do that actually. I will have some time to hit the track a few days before.
> 
> In the snow, I'm almost always flats. But summer singletrack, except unknown BC or really techy rides, I'm exclusively clipless. And especially races, just a cadence and motion habit I guess as I used to be flats/5-10s only for everything.


Good stuff! Let us know your findings with the JJ's vs. VH's.

I can relate to the SPD thing being a good choice for many. SPD does have its advantages. 
I've become so accustomed to freely moving on my pedals that I feel restricted with em is the primary reason I stopped using em.
My cadence is 125-175 routinely with either SPD or flats, lest I'm gettin trialsy in the tech. (My bikes are gonna soap my mouth)


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

I run the VH in front and JJ 4.0 rear all summer. Sometimes the rear washes out on me when braking in a turn (bad technique) but never lose traction when climbing. Sometimes spin out a bit on a technical like a log/rock more so than a knobier tire.

snow? hmmm... VH would rock but JJ? IDK


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

I tested my well worn 4.0 lightskin pacestars over the past week in 5" of slick powder and they did almost as well as the 4.0 wazia studded tires on my second bike and I could only run the air down to 4.5psi due to burping concerns. This powder was very slick and everyone has been struggling on it. I plan on having some 4.8 SS JJ pacestars mounted to some new mulefuts within the next week to get some more float and go to the super low pressures for the next snowfall.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

rcracer2 said:


> I tested my well worn 4.0 lightskin pacestars over the past week in 5" of slick powder and they did almost as well as the 4.0 wazia studded tires on my second bike and I could only run the air down to 4.5psi due to burping concerns. This powder was very slick and everyone has been struggling on it. I plan on having some 4.8 SS JJ pacestars mounted to some new mulefuts within the next week to get some more float and go to the super low pressures for the next snowfall.


Thanks for the feedback. I will get a chance this weekend to try the jims on a groomed track. I'm going skiing next to some groomed runs and will likely stop there afterward to test.


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## cgpro856 (Dec 16, 2015)

*Cracked rubber on JJ Addix*

I just bought a brand new jumbo Jim 4.8 snakeskin addix and it came out of the box with about 8 cracks in the rubber at the edge of the tread. They almost look like slices but they're going in different directions and some of them are star-shaped. They don't go all the way through the tire just the outer layer of rubber. Has anybody seen anything like this on any of the new addix compound tires?


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## sadness (Dec 26, 2017)

I have the same issue


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

cgpro856 said:


> I just bought a brand new jumbo Jim 4.8 snakeskin addix and it came out of the box with about 8 cracks in the rubber at the edge of the tread. They almost look like slices but they're going in different directions and some of them are star-shaped. They don't go all the way through the tire just the outer layer of rubber. Has anybody seen anything like this on any of the new addix compound tires?


I just got a pair of the 26 x 4.0 JJ SnakeSkin/Addix. I just checked and I do not have anything like you describe.


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## a1pathfinder67 (Jan 19, 2014)

tankhead10 said:


> Any pics of the 4.0 liteskins on a 80 mm rim??? thanks


https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/attach/jpg.gif


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## ianick (Jul 10, 2006)

Not the toughest tires in the world. Hopefully the patch job holds up.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

ianick said:


> Not the toughest tires in the world. Hopefully the patch job holds up.
> 
> View attachment 1192418


Not disputing that they are more fragile than many tires but that sort of comes with the weight. And I had that exact same thing happen to a steel belted car tire once, so not necessarily a sign of weakness.


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## a1pathfinder67 (Jan 19, 2014)

sryanak said:


> Not disputing that they are more fragile than many tires but that sort of comes with the weight. And I had that exact same thing happen to a steel belted car tire once, so not necessarily a sign of weakness.


Agreed. Something that big would take out any tire. Hard to see from the angle. But you can make out the golf ball size bubble on the side of the tire. Ruined my brand new Goodyear. Damn Turnpike.

But aside from strength (which is still solid) JJ lites are awesome tires.

https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/attach/jpg.gif


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

sryanak said:


> Not disputing that they are more fragile than many tires but that sort of comes with the weight. And I had that exact same thing happen to a steel belted car tire once, so not necessarily a sign of weakness.


You had a wooden stick puncture a steel belted tire? Wow. Cars exert ~750-1,000 lbs on each tire vs ~75-100 for a bike, so under the right conditions...


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## a1pathfinder67 (Jan 19, 2014)

BlueCheesehead said:


> You had a wooden stick puncture a steel belted tire? Wow. Cars exert ~750-1,000 lbs on each tire vs ~75-100 for a bike, so under the right conditions...


A friend of mine was a tire guy for a long time. He once showed me a steel belted tire with a pencil thru it. The pencil was broke but it punctured the tire. Right conditions...


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## klappers (Dec 6, 2018)

Just installed 2 x 4.8s. Weighed in around 1350 grams each. Pretty happy with the larger size over the 26x4s I was running









Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## klappers (Dec 6, 2018)

cgpro856 said:


> I just bought a brand new jumbo Jim 4.8 snakeskin addix and it came out of the box with about 8 cracks in the rubber at the edge of the tread. They almost look like slices but they're going in different directions and some of them are star-shaped. They don't go all the way through the tire just the outer layer of rubber. Has anybody seen anything like this on any of the new addix compound tires?





sadness said:


> I have the same issue





Rockadile said:


> I just got a pair of the 26 x 4.0 JJ SnakeSkin/Addix. I just checked and I do not have anything like you describe.


The 2 x 4.8 addik snakeskin that I just pruchased have no cracks anywhere that I can see

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

klappers said:


> Just installed 2 x 4.8s. Weighed in around 1350 grams each. Pretty happy with the larger size over the 26x4s I was running
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Backwards fender? Have you found that to work better?


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## klappers (Dec 6, 2018)

BlueCheesehead said:


> Backwards fender? Have you found that to work better?


Yep heaps better. Doesn't rub on the frame.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I put a 4.4" Jumbo Jim on the front of my fat bike late last summer for sandy, leafy fall trails and it was really good. Even ran it into the winter until the snow got deep enough to make me want to switch to the Wrathchild. I will put the JJ back on for 3-season use, though, and I'd like to add another to the rear. I can fit the 4.4" barely, (clears frame, chain is real close in lowest gear) and a 4.0" no problem. Any reason to choose one size over the other for a fair weather back tire?


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I went for 4.8/4.4 combo because of rock rim strikes and flats (on 4.0"JJ) with 80mm rims when I land jumps on rocks. The extra girth helped I think.

I also used heavily siped 4.8/4.0 minions last summer and fall that were less prone to sliding sideways on steep off camber wet rock. I didn't have problems with flat tires with the 4.0" minion. Honestly I'm not sure where I stand with the extra girth spring to fall. I missed the fast rolling of the JJ for sure but went for consistent grip (got a bad knee- and wear a brace).

I absolutely love the 4.5" studded Wrathchilds in winter!!!!



SteveF said:


> I put a 4.4" Jumbo Jim on the front of my fat bike late last summer for sandy, leafy fall trails and it was really good. Even ran it into the winter until the snow got deep enough to make me want to switch to the Wrathchild. I will put the JJ back on for 3-season use, though, and I'd like to add another to the rear. I can fit the 4.4" barely, (clears frame, chain is real close in lowest gear) and a 4.0" no problem. Any reason to choose one size over the other for a fair weather back tire?


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## tablatom (Feb 8, 2018)

UK riders.

How do you find them in our muddy winters?

Never had JJ's. 
I'd like to get 4.8 on the front and 4.4 on the rear.

I use a Thunder Burt (tubeless) on the rear of my 29er which is basically a 2.2inch Jumbo Jim.
Awesome tire, on the rear its ok in mud, surprisingly good.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

tablatom said:


> UK riders.
> 
> How do you find them in our muddy winters?
> 
> ...


This is one condition that JJ tends to do well. With the open space between tread, they clear nicely and simply work. 
4.8/4.4 should be a good combination as well.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

I've found with the right(?) tyre pressure they are fine for all but really slimy surfaces (or I wasn't concentrating when the bike slid away from me) but YMMV.
Currently I running 4.0LS on the bike as I prefer how the bike feels more lively compared to when I had 4.8s, and they still allow me to ride over all sorts of moorland crud without sinking in.
Buy a gauge - don't worry if it's accurate compared to another gauge, you just want to be able to replicate different pressures when you're experimenting and adding or removing air.
Also even the Liteskin version can convert to tubeless easily on TR rims with some sealant.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

GspotRider said:


> . I missed the fast rolling of the JJ for sure but went for consistent grip (got a bad knee- and wear a brace).


Did you find the Minions much slower than the JJs?


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

I think the traction is 'adequate' and definitely increases a lot as the pressure is reduced. I used what I had for a local race and it kicked ass; 4.8 SS PS rear on 80mm mulefut and 4.0 LS Addix on 65mm lighticycle carbon front (Moto-style!) Pressures <5psi on rapidly thawing snow. The only climb it wouldn't make is one that many don't make dry.


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## tablatom (Feb 8, 2018)

BansheeRune said:


> This is one condition that JJ tends to do well. With the open space between tread, they clear nicely and simply work.
> 4.8/4.4 should be a good combination as well.


Thanks.


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