# Edge 1000 MTB users?



## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

I have an Edge 800 but after seeing the Vivoactive automatically uploading activities I'm fancying an Edge 1000 to do that itself, I know the Edge 810 does have the smart connectivity as well but the 1000 seems more of an upgrade as the larger screen looks useful.

The difficulty is a lot of reviews and comments were written when the unit first came out and it seemed a bit buggy, I'm finding it difficult to get an accurate impression of what it's like now. I've had a look on the Garmin forums but it's mainly problems people are discussing which is understandable given it's a support forum. I know it doesn't support bike profiles but this doesn't bother me as I ended up not using that feature on the Edge 800, the capacitive screen though is a concern both for using when wet/muddy and when gloves and its durability to survive impacts. The price was obviously very high when it came out but it's a lot lower now to the degree it's only a little more than what I paid for the Edge 800.

I'd be interested to hear what any Edge 1000 users think of the device and whether they'd recommend it.

John


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## ChrisInYpsi (Apr 15, 2012)

I've been using mine since Christmas and its performed flawlessly. No issues at all. Navigation, LiveTrack, auto upload, Bluetooth connectivity and phone text/call alerts, etc - all have worked fine with zero problems. 

And you can do bike profiles - they just don't call them that. I have an activity profile set up for each bike, and that effectively tracks everything by bike.


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

Recently purchased one. It's a nice device - my complaint is the iOS app isn't very stable and I have issues with the Bluetooth stacks with my i5s. It requires a lot of patience to get both stacks to connect for smart and regular Bluetooth sync. Plan on tinkering before each ride. 

I've been riding in the rain with gloves and it's been working fine. Sometimes have to swipe an extra time, but I'm typically in motion when changing screens and it's been very reliable. 

I read the smart connect (txt and call notifications) only work on the 1000. If you're saying they work on the 810 as well, I'll likely return and downgrade. I would rather have the smaller form factor device I think.


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

breaks911 said:


> Recently purchased one. It's a nice device - my complaint is the iOS app isn't very stable and I have issues with the Bluetooth stacks with my i5s. It requires a lot of patience to get both stacks to connect for smart and regular Bluetooth sync. Plan on tinkering before each ride.
> 
> I've been riding in the rain with gloves and it's been working fine. Sometimes have to swipe an extra time, but I'm typically in motion when changing screens and it's been very reliable.
> 
> I read the smart connect (txt and call notifications) only work on the 1000. If you're saying they work on the 810 as well, I'll likely return and downgrade. I would rather have the smaller form factor device I think.


I was perhaps using the wrong terms, I was meaning the 810 supports the ability to upload activities through the phone rather than any smart functionality.

Chris - what phone are you using?

Thanks for the prompt resposes.

John


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I don't have one, but I have decided I won't buy one for a couple of reasons.

1. I don't want all the connectivity (which you want, so that's not going to inform your case much).
2. The big screen (and the connectivity features) eat more power. Note that the Edge 1000 has 2hrs less battery life than the other Edge models according to the specs. In practice, battery life tends to be lower, because Garmin posts the "max" battery life. Folks rarely run their GPS with max power savings.
3. I want at least a couple physical buttons. I've been in enough situations with my smartphone where the capacitive screen doesn't want to register a touch that I don't want the hassle of that technology on a bike GPS. Resistive touchscreens are as far as I will to go, but I would still like a couple physical buttons. I also ride all throughout the winter. I don't want to be required to buy special compatible gloves to use the stupid thing and I'm not thrilled about taking my gloves off to use it, either.
4. Too big. I think the 810 is a great size for a mapping GPS. I think the 510 is a bit large for something without mapping capability, too.


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

Just to add a few points...battery life is so so. My average ride is about 2 hours (11-13 miles) and that consumes about 25% of the battery. That's with both bt stacks connected and HRM. Unless you're planning an epic or multiday without power, that's probably good enough for most riding. You could probably tweak some settings to elongate. I haven't messed with it. 

There are 3 physical buttons on the 1000 - power, start/stop, and lap. The rest of the controls are done via the touch interface that works surprisingly well with regular gloves, even when both gloves and screen are muddy and wet. I ride in the PNW, where we are experts on wet conditions 

Once you start recording, typically the most you have to do is swipe left or right. You're not having to push small icons/buttons on the display. You swipe side to side to see different data screens, go to map, etc. if you want to manipulate the map, u do have to press a small button before u can pan but that hasn't been a problem for me as of yet.


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## ChrisInYpsi (Apr 15, 2012)

JohnMcL7 said:


> Chris - what phone are you using?


iPhone 5S.


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

My rides are normally around three hours and it sounds like the Edge 1000 can comfortably cover that so I'm happy at that. I don't find the navigation that useful on the 800 as the screen is small and low resolution making it difficult to get any actual detail without moving and zooming the map frequently which isn't really viable on the move - the Edge 1000 looks much better for that.

John


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

JohnMcL7 said:


> My rides are normally around three hours and it sounds like the Edge 1000 can comfortably cover that so I'm happy at that. I don't find the navigation that useful on the 800 as the screen is small and low resolution making it difficult to get any actual detail without moving and zooming the map frequently which isn't really viable on the move - the Edge 1000 looks much better for that.
> 
> John


For useability, the bigger screen is just a modest improvement. The negative of the battery drain is worse imo


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

Harold said:


> For useability, the bigger screen is just a modest improvement. The negative of the battery drain is worse imo


From what's been said above, the battery drain is no worse than the Edge 800 (actually sounds better than what I'm getting) and will last a good bit longer than I need and the screen looks a big improvement for the navigation, it actually looks usable for that.

John


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Same as the 800? Doubtful. Especially using the connected features with your phone.

All rechargeable devices will lose battery capacity over time, too. Unless you replace the battery.

You are right that it is plenty for one 2-3hr ride. That isn't enough for me. I oftentimes am out for 6-7 hours in one day. I like to go ride on trips and do multiple rides in multiple days, sometimes camping far from power sources. I want my device to have the longest battery life possible. User replaceable batteries are even better for trips and expedition rides because they are so light.

My Oregon will last a little longer on a charge than the Edge 1000. It's useable for a few long days. The big advantage it has are the replaceable batteries. I wish it lasted longer but will tolerate what it offers because i can easily swap batteries. I feel that a rechargeable device with a battery that is not replaceable needs to do better.


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

Using a portable usb charger with lithium disposable batteries would help address the multiday trips when they pop up I bet.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

breaks911 said:


> Using a portable usb charger with lithium disposable batteries would help address the multiday trips when they pop up I bet.


Maybe so. There are lots of things you can use to recharge USB devices. But my point is that for reasons I've already stated, those devices should start with better battery life out of the gate.

I'm taking a stand against the new devices Garmin keeps releasing where the battery life drops by a couple of hours each time because of all the extra features that get crammed into the device.


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## wetpaint (Sep 7, 2009)

JohnMcL7 said:


> From what's been said above, the battery drain is no worse than the Edge 800 (actually sounds better than what I'm getting) and will last a good bit longer than I need and the screen looks a big improvement for the navigation, it actually looks usable for that.
> 
> John


The battery drains significantly faster on my 1000 than 800, it's a power hungry device. It generally uses 10-15% of the battery per hour depending on the air temp. In very cold temps 10F or less, it starts draining even faster. I've never had that happen on my 800.

The 1000 has a great screen, but the start & lap buttons are susceptible to getting sand in them and getting stuck. A rubber case helps some, but I've still had sand get between the buttons and case. It's enough of a concern that I picked up a 510 for mountain biking so I don't have to worry about wrecking my nice Garmin, will save it for the road.


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

^^ you've got some crazy terrain. Below 10f and sand!


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## JohnMcL7 (Jul 26, 2013)

wetpaint said:


> The battery drains significantly faster on my 1000 than 800, it's a power hungry device. It generally uses 10-15% of the battery per hour depending on the air temp. In very cold temps 10F or less, it starts draining even faster. I've never had that happen on my 800.


Perhaps my Edge 800 isn't quite right as I've had that happen several times with it, occasionally the battery just plummets and I only get a couple of hours out of it fully charged although I've only used it down to -10 celsius. I don't ride in sand in although some of the mud can be quite gritty, that's a bit concerning it can get into the buttons as the 800 regularly gets completely coated in mud and worked fine after.

John


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I came from an 800, and now have a 1000. My perception; Battery life is not much different than my 800. Maybe like 10%. I have done 30-40 mile Epic Mtn rides with both. I turn back lighting off, and usually do not ride with my ANT sensors. I also have no need for receiving text messages while riding, so I leave BT off. The battery does very well thank you. Never understood the need to get text messages on my GPS anyway but that's just me. 

I really do like the larger screen. It is a marked improvement over the 800 in my opinion. I do like the WiFi connectivity, and it is nice to be able to upload to Connect instantly via the connection to my phone (WiFi). I really like the touchscreen. I have no issues using it with my gloves on either. I am super happy with the device and consider it an upgrade over the 800.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

You are using more of the power saving features, and that helps a lot. 

And let me be clear - battery life is fine for a single ride on one charge. Even for long rides. That's not the issue. I want to be able to get a few long days of riding out of a single charge. With the stated 15 hours, that's two 7.5hr days of riding under best case scenarios. Another 6hr day would sure be nice. I want a few days without needing to worry about recharging. And I think that the more "extra" features are included in the device, the more robust the battery should be to power them so that even folks who want to use all the extras can get a couple days' worth of life.


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## Machoman121 (Jun 22, 2013)

Harold said:


> Same as the 800? Doubtful. Especially using the connected features with your phone.
> 
> All rechargeable devices will lose battery capacity over time, too. Unless you replace the battery.
> 
> ...


I used to fret over that concept of limited battery endurance and the durability of the lithium battery in the edges - and tried to shoehorn an Oregon 600 and GPSMAP 62s for a cycling GPS. From the battery point of view - it worked - I can get many more hours of battery life than my legs can hold up - and it's also easy to bring along some additional backups in the form of a pair of AAs. But all this was at the great expense of weight - and also looks.

I eventually decided that my average ride time will rarely go over 5 hours - and I really wanted something lighter - otherwise i'll end up not carrying it on most rides (and looks sleeker on the bike) and picked up the Magellan Cyclo 505.

My quick summary of the Cyclo is that unfarily very under-rated and it is the superior cycling GPS over the Edges - it will follow a track (planned by your) like a bloodhound - even detours won't destroy the navigation of the track. On that alone it justified the Cyclo 505. I initially thought it was just another GPS - but it's tracking navigation capability made it a real gem. If navigation is more important than training stats - the Cyclo is the better choice over the Edge.

Read this up in the dedicated cyclo forum: CycloGPS Forums ? Index page


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

I had the 1000 for few months. Returned to REI in March.
Software is very buggy. I don't see Garmin being able to fix it. It is very very far from good.

My brief experience:
Battery last 5-6 hours with low settings.
Lost satellite signal in the middle of a forest.
Problem exporting routes.
"On the fly" and "social" features do not work.
It can not even calculate basic direction on road.

Whatever use you intend to do, it is not worth the price.


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

Machianera said:


> I had the 1000 for few months. Returned to REI in March.
> Software is very buggy. I don't see Garmin being able to fix it. It is very very far from good.
> 
> My brief experience:
> ...


Agree with battery drain. Do not have any of the other issues. Sounds like you possibly had a lemon. I'm several months into mine now and it's great.


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## birmy (Jan 14, 2005)

I am several months into mine and it has suddenly locked up. I can not power it on at all. Plug in USB and nothing happens. Its a paper weight right now. I tried the master reset and the power button without luck.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

birmy said:


> I am several months into mine and it has suddenly locked up. I can not power it on at all. Plug in USB and nothing happens. Its a paper weight right now. I tried the master reset and the power button without luck.


Contact Garmin. They have a few other methods at their disposal to revive it. They still may not work, but they may also send a replacement if that's the case.


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## birmy (Jan 14, 2005)

Yes, that is something I am going to do today. Ill report back on my findings.


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## birmy (Jan 14, 2005)

Getting a new one from Garmin. All of the fixes they tried I had found online and already tried so....


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

I bought the Edge 1000 a month ago. Been getting used to it, but it still has fatal problems (for me) which Garmin confirms:


The battery life looks to be in the ~6 hour range with reasonable activation of features. (Too low for long rides.) 
Garmin doesn't sell a battery extender for the Edge 1000, only for other models. After market battery extenders have trouble fitting onto the standard mounts. 
The number of waypoints and routes is limited to 200/100 respectively, one quarter of what I usually store on my GPSMAP 60CSx. 
When trying to navigate a route on a new trail, the course jumps all over, with "Distance to Next" waypoint jumping all over anywhere from 100' to 10 miles from minute to minute. I constantly get "Off Course" popups blocking the screen, even when I'm on track. I confirmed with Garmin that it's not possible to do an "off-road" route with straight lines between waypoints like on my 60CSx. (I turn off Navigation "Lock on Road" and "Recalculation" and set navigation mode to "MTB" with no help.) Garmin said the Edge can only handle "Courses" but not "Routes". Courses are like Routes, but navigate only on known roads/trails, not straight line. They suggest I might be able to do a Route if I manually program a Route into the Edge directly from waypoints. But the Edge can only handle a few Routes and Waypoints, so I'd have to continually do that on the unit each ride. 
The internal temperature sensor only has 1.8F (1C) resolution with big jumps on the plots. Worse, it always reads 10-15F too high, maybe with heating from internal unit power or handlebar heat. Garmin has an external "tempe" sensor for $30, that should be better. But it won't work with the Edge 1000! 
One of the few hard buttons is for "Laps", which is totally useless for MTB and cannot be reprogrammed to something more useful 

Bottom line, Garmin admitted to me that the Edge is really a road bike GPS, and not suited for MTB. I'll likely return the Edge 1000 to REI. This is unfortunate, as I liked many other things, like the out front mount, and the ability to read, display, and record the gear settings of my electronic Di2 shifters. I also liked that it warns you to start the ride when it detects movement. It also allows you to set different profiles for different bikes and automatically select the sensors in view.

I'm now looking instead at the eTrex 35t, which looks to be more versatile and solve all the above issues at a much lower price. Unfortunately, it's new and likely to have software issues. Another alternative is the eTrex 30x, which has higher resolution than the eTrex 35t, but ironically on a smaller screen.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> I bought the Edge 1000 a month ago. Been getting used to it, but it still has fatal problems (for me) which Garmin confirms:
> 
> 
> The battery life looks to be in the ~6 hour range with reasonable activation of features. (Too low for long rides.)
> ...


Yeah, you confirm a lot of things I suspected about the Edge 1000 WRT MTB use. I find myself in the market for a new GPS, and have had my eye on the etrex 30x. The 35t is a new model I was unaware of, but the battery life hit for the touchscreen is the deal killer for me. A loss of almost 10 hours. Yowch. The only redeeming factor for the etrex 35t for me is that it appears to be compatible with speed and cadence sensors, whereas the etrex 30x is not. HRM only for that one. I care less about the HRM, honestly.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Harold said:


> Yeah, you confirm a lot of things I suspected about the Edge 1000 WRT MTB use. I find myself in the market for a new GPS, and have had my eye on the etrex 30x. The 35t is a new model I was unaware of, but the battery life hit for the touchscreen is the deal killer for me. A loss of almost 10 hours. Yowch. The only redeeming factor for the etrex 35t for me is that it appears to be compatible with speed and cadence sensors, whereas the etrex 30x is not. HRM only for that one. I care less about the HRM, honestly.


Once a GPS accepts rechargeable AA batteries that can be swapped out on the trail, the battery life becomes almost irrelevant to me. I always carry backup batteries anyway. Swap when needed and charge them at leisure. Garmin's quoted 16 hour life of the eTrex Touch 35t is the same as quoted for my GPSMAP 60CSx, which lasts for many rides. Could be the 16 hour quoted life of the eTrex Touch 35t is equally bogus to the Edge's 1000 15 hour life. But again, once the batteries can be swapped quickly on the trail, I don't care anymore.

The touch screen of the eTrex 35t looks to be the same as the Edge 1000, which works pretty well, even with gloves. With the Edge 1000, I've found the touch screen is a MUCH easier way to navigate and select and enter information, relative to a joystick.

From my experience with the GPSMAP 60CSX and Edge 1000, I found a larger screen was more useful than higher resolution. With large numbers/screen I can see information at a quick glance while riding along on bumpy trails in dark woods. And the slightly improved extra precision (1.3 to 1.5X in each direction) isn't that noticeable, especially if it's a smaller screen. The resolution would be more noticeable/useful if it was 2X or 3X better in each direction, say with 500x800 pixels or more, on a larger screen.

I do like the cadence and speed sensors and use them on my bikes. I also wear a HRM for pacing myself on the long rides and climbs in CA trails. I want to upgrade primarily to integrate my sensors and clean up the handlebars. So it sounds like I'd want the new eTrex 35t over the eTrex 30x, for my needs.

I was originally thinking of just upgrading to the GPSMAP 64st, since my 60Csx has done so well for many years. I don't mind the size and like the larger sensitive antennae. But the new chips are great at reception, even in the eTrex. Of most concern, I find universally bad reviews of the GPSMAP 64 series, saying the units were buggy and generally a step backwards in features, quality, and capability from the 60CSx series.

The eTrex 35t is looking to be the right unit for me. I'll probably wait a month or so to see how the reviews of that new unit pan out and initial software patches come out. It's hard to find the eTrex 35t anywhere other than Amazon right now anyway. So I'll also wait for it to hit REI, and return the Edge 1000 at the same time.


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## LUW (May 4, 2011)

Did you guys ever considered the 810? The battery lasts longer and using RideWithGPS I can create routes and the 810 reads 'em.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

LUW said:


> Did you guys ever considered the 810? The battery lasts longer and using RideWithGPS I can create routes and the 810 reads 'em.


Interesting that you can load routes into the Edge 810. I took a closer look at it. First of all, the 810 unit size, touch screen size and pixels are very similar to the eTrex 35, which is just a bit thicker to handle the batteries. They also have similar features and capability in general (altimeter, compass, bike accessories,..)

As for the differences, the battery is still not swappable, even though it's slightly longer life time. I'd still loose the last end of longer rides, and I know of many with this unit who've lost the tail end record of epic rides. EDIT: I now see it has available an external battery pack. I'd need to find a place to put it. Still not as nice as simply swapping batteries.

Second, it's still limited to 200 waypoints, versus 4000 waypoints for the eTrex 35. And even if one can load routes with third party software, I'd have to learn that over the existing Basecamp to which I just converted from MapSource. 
BTW, I'm now wondering if RideWithGPS can put Routes (rather than Courses) into the Edge 1000 as well?

The Edge 810 also can't accept the "tempe" external temperature sensor, so the temperatures (assuming built in sensor) will be very wrong, and perhaps with the same very coarse resolution as the Edge 1000 (1.8F per step).

Bottom line, it's still a road bike computer. It still has many issues for me, listed above, that the eTrex Touch 35 fixes properly for a similar size and lower cost.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have considered it. But with just about every other modern GPS being able to use GLONASS birds, that omission is a glaring one.

Garmin's spec page says that the Edge 1000 can handle 100 routes, so I would expect RideWithGPS to be able to send routes to it, also.

I have to ask, Larry, do you Geocache or something? That's the only time I've seen the waypoint limitation for fitness GPSes as being a problem. It does frustrate me that the ability to save a waypoint is buried under a bunch of submenus on the fitness models.

One thing to point out with hiking models like the etrex 35 is that its track memory is organized differently. It's a hard limit of 10,000 points for the active log. My Oregon worked that way, and while I could set the memory to automatically archive sections in 2,000 point segments, when it did that, those sections would disappear from the map unless loaded specifically. When reviewing for analysis, you'd have to piece together the segments from long rides. Doable, but somewhat tedious.

Whereas with fitness models, track memory is determined by number of laps, or alternatively, by time (the newer ones go by time, whereas older ones are laps). So unless it's an absolutely massive multi-day ride, it will be a single file when you pull it off the GPS.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*810*

I came from the 800 to the 810 and I am very happy with it. Battery lasts up to 16 hours. If you are doing rides that long then surely you can come ride Tahoe with me. The temperature runs a little high (as did 800), but probably no different than any unit directly in the sun. You know when it's hot out anyway. Do you have to store so many way points at once? Perhaps you could just swap out the way point files depending on where you ride. I used to have to do that with the 705 maps since the memory was so limited.

For everyone who has a GPS: from time to time completely deplete the battery and you will get back longer run times.


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## LUW (May 4, 2011)

I went for the 810 instead of the 1000 mainly because of two reasons: the 1000 is bigger (I absolutely hate the idea of riding with something almost the size of my friggin Galaxy on the handlebar) and because the battery life is better. In terms of battery life what the 810 delivers is more then enough for me, and I don't miss the longer battery life that my old eTrex offered. In terms of software, Garmin's Connect is fairly limited, but since you can import data from other programs, that's not an issue. And yes, it's as easy to import data with the 810 as it is with the 1000, since they use the same kind of software.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

I need lots of waypoints because I put them all on my GPS, as generated from many rides. Downloading a route will only download those few that make up the route. But I also like having all the others nearby, for reference in case of a change in plan for various reasons, when a GPS is needed most. It's a pain to select the needed set of waypoints each time you ride.

There's something funny about how the Edge 1000 turns "Routes" into "Courses". Now that I think about it, I am also successfully downloading "Routes" from Basecamp. But the Edge turns these into Courses with full mapping to trails and roads. I suspect it will do the same for other software downloads. Garmin's tech support told me the only way to get a true "Route" with straight line between points was (maybe) to enter it manually directly into the unit by hand, using waypoints found in memory.



Wherewolf said:


> I came from the 800 to the 810 and I am very happy with it. Battery lasts up to 16 hours. If you are doing rides that long then surely you can come ride Tahoe with me. The temperature runs a little high (as did 800), but probably no different than any unit directly in the sun. You know when it's hot out anyway. Do you have to store so many way points at once?


If the life of the Edge 810 is truly 16 hours, then that's a worthy consideration for me. But the Edge 1000 is supposed to last 15 hours, but was halfway down on a 4.5 hour ride today, which indicates more like a 9 hour life. BTW, I did 27 miles 3700'. Felt good afterwards. I'll get riding with you in Tahoe once I regularly do 35 mile 5000' climbs. Should be soon now. Really looking forward to it, which is an incentive to me.

I agree, the only way to get proper temperature is a separately mounted sensor, which Garmin sells, but isn't possible to link in software to the Edge units. The Edge temperature sensor as it exists is almost useless.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Harold said:


> One thing to point out with hiking models like the etrex 35 is that its track memory is organized differently.


Indeed I noted that. For hiking models, even a single ride may have multiple tracks for every time you lose reception. I have no problem joining them manually however. I don't save them as I found it eliminates a lot of information. Instead I just sort them by day and then join them if necessary, if I have several days of downloads.

Having a start/stop button on the Edge allows each ride to make a clear single entry in memory. But then you need to remember to hit Start, and not accidentally hit stop. Each system has their merits.

I do like the Edge 1000 for recording my shorter daily rides where I don't need to use the navigation (which doesn't work for MTB with the Edge 1000). I'm starting to think there's no rule that says you can't have two GPS units. I can use just the Edge for recording the daily rides, and the eTrex Touch 35t for longer and more adventure rides deep into new territory. I can even mount both simultaneously. I already mount my GPSMAP 60CSx along side my Edge 1000, as it's the only way I can get navigation. I can just swap the new eTrex 35t for the old 60CSx.


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## LUW (May 4, 2011)

About battery life. Like with everything else, GPS units always get an optimistic battery life expectancy from the manufacturer. To get close to what the manufacturer says the battery will last, you almost have to keep the unit off and only turn it on once in a while . For my 810 (I think) I'm getting around 10 to 12 hours every charge, with light on medium and a few messages popping up once in a while. I probably don't get the battery to last longer because I normally use the unit for only about one to two hours at a time, and everytime you turn it on it drains more juice from the battery because of the cold start.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> Once a GPS accepts rechargeable AA batteries that can be swapped out on the trail, the battery life becomes almost irrelevant to me. I always carry backup batteries anyway. Swap when needed and charge them at leisure. Garmin's quoted 16 hour life of the eTrex Touch 35t is the same as quoted for my GPSMAP 60CSx, which lasts for many rides. Could be the 16 hour quoted life of the eTrex Touch 35t is equally bogus to the Edge's 1000 15 hour life. But again, once the batteries can be swapped quickly on the trail, I don't care anymore.
> 
> The touch screen of the eTrex 35t looks to be the same as the Edge 1000, which works pretty well, even with gloves. With the Edge 1000, I've found the touch screen is a MUCH easier way to navigate and select and enter information, relative to a joystick.
> 
> ...


I have been thinking a little more on these comments the past few days. Interesting point regarding screen size vs. resolution. I think my Oregon had similar battery life and it wasn't really ever a problem. Though I also lament losing a set of Eneloop batteries when I lost the Oregon. Still, the etrex 35 WOULD let me continue to use my speed sensor, which I'm finding to be increasingly relevant and important, even for trail mapping purposes. I'm going to have a little extra cash coming in soon from selling an old bike, and I should have enough left from other purchases to replace my GPS. Maybe the etrex 35 is in the cards? I really missed not having a handheld GPS yesterday. I was out scouting trails with a USFS crew for the first steps of a NEPA review. I really wish I had a handheld.


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## tualmbr (Jul 18, 2015)

Pardon my ignorance - but the GPS should be able to calculate your speed ( and elevation, location, etc ) - what is the need for the speed sensor? And what is the use for speed tracking when out biking? ( Or more specifically, mapping rides ? )

I go fast before inclines, I go as fast as I feel safe on declines, and I go as fast as I feel like during the rest.

Short of training for a race/competition - what's the use?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

tualmbr said:


> Pardon my ignorance - but the GPS should be able to calculate your speed ( and elevation, location, etc ) - what is the need for the speed sensor? And what is the use for speed tracking when out biking? ( Or more specifically, mapping rides ? )
> 
> I go fast before inclines, I go as fast as I feel safe on declines, and I go as fast as I feel like during the rest.
> 
> Short of training for a race/competition - what's the use?


First of all, many riders do fine without a GPS or speedometer. They know where they're going. They just ride. You might be in that category.

However, there's many uses for a GPS on a bike. Recently, a GPS got more popular due to on-web competition with others such as Strava (and even Garmin Connect) in which users construct "segments" or stretches of a trail where your time is compared to others. You get King of the Mountain for any segment you're the leader, and there's enough segments around that most strong riders can find themselves a KOM. It's an addicting competition for those who get into it. (Not me.)

Next a GPS can be used for navigating in uncharted areas. I get other people's tracks, or look on maps and make up waypoints on the computer before I go. This way I don't get lost and ride the better recommended trails. And if I do find myself lost or in trouble, I can use the GPS to get me out - in worse case backtracking, but I usually find a better shortcut with help of the GPS and paper maps. I find the GPS invaluable to navigate adventures in new areas that are remote. I find the hiking computers (like the eTrex and GPSMAP64) are better at navigation into new areas.

Another use is to document rides you've done. You can mark trails to investigate later. You can see on a map all the trails you've done, and plan out new routes. You can see how fast you went, and if you're slowing down or improving over time. You can send your track to someone else so they can follow the nice route you did. (I've done this many times.) Also, the GPS is like a fancy odometer, that tells you how much you've done and how hard, and where. I find the Edge based biking computers are better at recording and documenting rides.

Finally, as for your question on sensors, the GPS can tell position, time and elevation from the satellites. But the elevation is more than 3X less accurate than horizontal. So 25' horizontal error is similar to 75' or more vertical error. Thus a barometric altimeter, that can be accurate to a couple feet, is a big advance. Also the GPS elevation drifts by a few hundred feet per hour, adding noise to your total climb calculation. A barometric altimeter eliminates that problem.

As for the "speed" sensor, some GPS can accept input from a wheel counter, like an odometer. This helps in accuracy of a ride. In tight switchbacks, the GPS will "round out" the curves. And the GPS can sometimes loose signal, especially in dense woods on the north side of a steep hill. Even with a good signal, the length of the ride can be 5-10% off. The wheel sensor corrects this error. That the sensor also provides speed is just automatic, and like you, the specific speed I ride doesn't matter a lot to me. More important, the wheel sensor helps give accuracy on the odometers.

I also use a cadence sensor. This tells me if I'm using too low or high a gear, and if I'm getting tired at the end of a ride.

I also use a Heart Rate Monitor integrated into the GPS. This works like a tachometer on a car and helps me slow down (not over-exerting) at the beginning of a ride, which actually helps me feel better later in the ride and ironically gives me better ride time overall, as well as feeling better. I also see occasions when my HR is low and not pushing myself like I could. The HR also correlates with Power, and gives me a sense of my power output, from calibrations at gyms with power meters.

I hope I explained the attraction of using a GPS with the various sensors on a bike.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Today*



BigLarry said:


> ...If the life of the Edge 810 is truly 16 hours, then that's a worthy consideration for me. But the Edge 1000 is supposed to last 15 hours, but was halfway down on a 4.5 hour ride today, which indicates more like a 9 hour life. BTW, I did 27 miles 3700'. Felt good afterwards. I'll get riding with you in Tahoe once I regularly do 35 mile 5000' climbs. Should be soon now. Really looking forward to it, which is an incentive to me.


Got 14 hours on 810 on the trail today, left the unit on for the next 2.5 hours on the drive home, and finally started getting a low battery warning. I carry a small USB device that can power the GPS, phone, or light. Never had to use it but tested it with the GPS and got 13 hours out of it. Fall is great Tahoe riding weather.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> As for the "speed" sensor, some GPS can accept input from a wheel counter, like an odometer. This helps in accuracy of a ride. In tight switchbacks, the GPS will "round out" the curves. And the GPS can sometimes loose signal, especially in dense woods on the north side of a steep hill. Even with a good signal, the length of the ride can be 5-10% off. The wheel sensor corrects this error. That the sensor also provides speed is just automatic, and like you, the specific speed I ride doesn't matter a lot to me. More important, the wheel sensor helps give accuracy on the odometers.


This is why I use a speed sensor. Mostly for accurate distance measurements. But it's sure nice that I don't outright lose the distance from a ride where the GPS lost its signal, which happened to me once this year.

The reason I use GPS is partly for the tracking capabilities, but also partly for navigation reasons. One of my favorite areas to ride has a couple networks of trails with over 100 miles combined. Those two areas are about to be connected to each other, with potential for quite a lot more miles of trails, plus fire road connections. All told, long term, we've got approval for a network totaling over 200 miles of trails, with potential for at least 100 more miles. A GPS is pretty useful in a situation like that where you have lots of intersections and options.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Second 810*

Just got a new 810. I've cracked the screen on my last two units (800 and 810). I just did a 14 hour ride, kept the unit on while driving home, and I got 16.5 hours. So cost and battery time are pretty important for me. I thought the Bluetooth on the 810 would be gimmicky and superfluous, but I have to admit it is really convenient. And the interface of the 810 is much better than the 800.


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## skipnay (May 8, 2012)

Well this has answered some of the questions I have had and also has made me ask more questions. I want to use the 1000 for both a road bike (which I haven't bought, maybe in 2 weeks) and my MTB. I have a paragon that I use mostly on trails but it would be nice to venture of some of those trails but worry I might get lost go way out of my way to get back.

What all comes in the 1000 bundle? 
Do I have to buy a speed sensor?
Do I have to buy a heart rate monitor?
Do I have to buy the cadence sensor also?

Does the 1000 lose the ride information if you have to change batteries in the middle of the ride? How long are the batteries lasting when your not riding? How many bikes can I use this on?

How user friendly is this? I will be using it more for a road bike then my MTB. So that being said I won't be use to the smaller in size bars so using one hand will be tricky at first. I don't have the best balance anyway because of my ears.

*What's the difference between the EDGE 1000 and the EDGE 1000 EXPLORE?*


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

skipnay said:


> Well this has answered some of the questions I have had and also has made me ask more questions. I want to use the 1000 for both a road bike (which I haven't bought, maybe in 2 weeks) and my MTB. I have a paragon that I use mostly on trails but it would be nice to venture of some of those trails but worry I might get lost go way out of my way to get back.
> 
> What all comes in the 1000 bundle?
> Do I have to buy a speed sensor?
> ...


The Edge 1000 "performance" bundle includes the HRM, cadence, and speed sensor for only another $100 over the "base" model which does not include these sensors. I found the extra sensors very useful for monitoring my rides.

I've yet to figure out any difference between the Edge 1000 and Edge Explore 1000, other than the latter is white and $50 cheaper.

The Edge series is very user friendly. The touch screen also works very well. I like the "out-front" mount very much, as it gets the GPS in a better position to read and use. I also use the Edge on a second bike. The Edge 1000 software is nice in allowing you to set and select different profiles for the different bikes, including which screens are displayed and which sensors are used. And their cloud-based Garmin Connect will separate out miles and statistics for the different bikes (or what they call a generic "gear" profile selection).

If your batteries run out, you don't lose any information. But you are no longer recording the remainder of the ride. So you loose that end part of the ride. I am now consistently getting about 10 hours of working life with both GPS+GLONASS enabled. I find GPS alone gives me a lot less precision than my GPSMAP 60CSx, which I'm running side by side with the Edge due to limitations of the Edge (more below). The Edge 1000 doesn't have a convenient USB charger from Garmin like the other Edge models, but third party solutions exist. See a lot more information on Edge usage here. If the Edge is turned off, almost no power is used. I go for days with little draw on the battery when not in use.

The simple summary of my comments above: 
The Edge series is great for recording typical rides less than 8 hours (with margin for 10 hour life). 
The eTrex, GPSMAP and other hiking GPS are great for navigation in new areas and longer epic rides.

I've come to really like the Edge 1000 for recording my daily rides. It has a one button start/stop for recording, easy to upload files to the computer and cloud, and maintains a history of all my rides within the unit. I'm now inclined to keep it for this purpose.

But per my previous comments, the Edge is not good for MTB Navigation. For instance, I've yet to find a way to get the Edge to just point the compass direction and distance to a waypoint, a standard feature of the other GPS hiking units like my old 60CSx. Instead, the Edge wants to route me all over the world on it's known roads and trails, rather than present me the straight line navigation information. And the Edge only holds a couple hundred of all my waypoints.

Due to above issues, I'm now likely to get an eTrex Touch 35t for navigation and epic rides (>8 hours) and multi-day trips. I'll use just the Edge 1000 for recording 80% of my daily and shorter rides in well known areas, but add the second eTrex GPS for longer rides or navigating into new areas. I hope that Garmin will improve the navigation on the Edge to work better with MTB. But even then, battery life on longer rides is a major problem, especially if batteries can't be swapped out like on the eTrex line. But some USB chargers exist for the Edge, albeit with some limitations on usage and clearance while mounted.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Wherewolf said:


> Just got a new 810. I've cracked the screen on my last two units (800 and 810). I just did a 14 hour ride, kept the unit on while driving home, and I got 16.5 hours. So cost and battery time are pretty important for me. I thought the Bluetooth on the 810 would be gimmicky and superfluous, but I have to admit it is really convenient. And the interface of the 810 is much better than the 800.


The Edge 810 looks to have longer battery life than the Edge 1000, just enough more to handle the longer rides that we do. Were you using just GPS or GPS+GLONASS?

Can the Edge 810 handle different profiles, say for different bikes, like the Edge 1000?


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Do some homework folks*

Nearly all the questions asked in this thread are answered on the Garmin site (use the compare feature) or sites that sell these units, e.g. what bundling options there are. And once you buy one it will take a good bit of effort to utilize it. So if you can't do the easy research you probably shouldn't buy one. This forum is full of posts from frustrated people who thought these units work just like automobile GPS units. They don't.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

The Garmin feature compare is only helpful in the differentiation between units within a product line. But the needs for MTB is bridging the two lines between cycling and hiking products. Garmin won't let you compare say an eTrex Touch 35 to a Garmin Edge 1000. I do it manually putting the screens side by side. And even then, Garmin's compare doesn't include all the features like "profiles" for different bikes that aren't on the compare list, and only on a few units that you have to dig for. 

And finally, the nature and behavior of the GPS lines are very different, such as the way they handle routes, waypoints, and record tracks. The Garmin compare is useful, but only gets you part of the information.


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## skipnay (May 8, 2012)

Well I use to have maps downloaded on my 60CSx but it got warrantied years back and never downloaded the maps. Might have to do that now and use it for going somewhere for when I'm using waypoints.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Edge 1000 vs Etrex Touch 35t*

The Edge 1000 was giving me so many problems, I bought the eTrex Touch 35t (at ~half the price of the Edge) in order to compare. Night and Day. All problems solved.

Specifically, the eTrex Touch 35t solves the following problems with Edge 1000:
1. The battery has a very long life. After an 8 hour ride starting each with full charge, the eTrex has more than 50% left, whereas the Edge has only 25%. I did a 5 hour ride with ~55% charge on the Edge, and lost the last hour of the ride. Basically, on a full charge, the eTrex lasts 16 hours, the Edge only 10 hours. 
2. The eTrex batteries are easy to replace on the trail. Still haven't found a USB charger for the Edge. 
3. I can load all my waypoints onto the eTrex, not with the Edge. Saved my butt yesterday when I had to change route and got trapped behind some thick brush in the middle of nowhere. The eTrex had lots of alternative waypoints that couldn't be loaded to the Edge.
4. The navigation has never worked on the Edge. I called and emailed Garmin a dozen times over the last few weeks. I'm doing everything they suggest (like set Nav to "direct route"), but no go. Basically, *relying on the Edge 1000 for navigation will kill you*. More below.
5. The screen on the eTrex is nicer with better clarity, even though it's a bit smaller.
6. The user interface is much nicer. Like to change a data field, I just touch it. On the Edge I need to go up and down into 6 deep menus to change a data field. 
7. The eTrex can handle different Profiles, just like the Edge. So I can have different screen setups for two different bikes I ride on the two coasts. 
8. I use an external temperature sensor with the eTrex, mounted on my pack, but haven't verified the accuracy improvement yet.

As an example of the problems the Edge has with Routes (which it calls Courses on the unit), here's what happens on a recent ride. Although not clear in the pictures, the eTrex Touch 35t has the nicest and most visible display, with bluish white background and high contrast. The Edge has a more grayish background.

From left to right is the following Garmin units, including my trusty old 60CSx:
*GPSMAP 60CSx ; eTrex Touch 35t ; Edge 1000*







For Navigation, the "Distance to Next" waypoint field is on the bottom of the two left units, and one up from the bottom on the Edge on the right. 
Note the displays say 0.26 miles ; 0.26 miles ; 178' (Two left units are correct. The Edge is WAY off. There's nothing at 178 feet!!!)








Later, at another point along the route, the displays say 0.74 miles ; 0.74 miles ; 15.7 miles (Again the Edge is WAY off - basically random.)

Such errors when relying on a GPS for navigation can be deadly.

I thought maybe the problem is because the Edge is designed to route on roads as it's a road biking computer. But even on the road, the routing is killer. I had a friend using his Edge 1000 who suddenly disappeared on a bridge over some railroad tracks. He later told me he decided to try the Edge's "shortcut" that routed him onto the railroad tracks. He took an elevator to get across on a pedestrian overpass and joined me much later.

Garmin support told me that one has to use common sense in relying on navigation information. However, the navigation information is ALWAYS VERY WRONG and NEVER CORRECT on the Edge 1000. If one actually needed navigation in an emergency or lost situation, the Edge 1000 will make your problems worse.

As such I find that *THE Edge 1000 HAS FATAL FLAWS AND CAN KILL YOU *if you rely on it for navigation in critical situations.

For sure, the eTrex 35t is a much better unit.

Not sure, but I might keep the Edge 1000 to use for data logging on shorter daily rides in known areas that don't need navigation. It's also nice having more data fields to display by simultaneously using both units on the bars, with Navigation info showing on the eTrex, and performance info showing on the Edge. Still, I need to figure out how to recharge the Edge for long events, like a 3-day riding trip I'm doing this weekend. I'm going to try and find a USB Battery charger and check it out.


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## Babas (Mar 5, 2008)

Great summary, BigLarry - thanks! I am considering eTrex Touch 35 too, as opposed to Edge 520, which is a bit scaled down Edge 1000. Anything you actually miss in eTrex as to compare in Edge 1000? Especially in the area of fitness/ride/pure biking options?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Babas said:


> Great summary, BigLarry - thanks! I am considering eTrex Touch 35 too, as opposed to Edge 520, which is a bit scaled down Edge 1000. Anything you actually miss in eTrex as to compare in Edge 1000? Especially in the area of fitness/ride/pure biking options?


There's nothing I miss in the eTrex Touch 35t versus the Edge 1000 for my mountain biking. The eTrex can handle different bike profiles with different screen setups and different parameter settings (like types of maps for instance). The eTrex can handle fitness monitors such as Heart Rate, Cadence, and Bike Speedometer on the wheel (for improved accuracy). I also like that the eTrex has a (soft) start/stop/save button so I can start and record different rides on different days into separate tracks, just like on the Edge.

However, the Edge 1000 does have some road bike and bike training features not available on the eTrex. For instance, it has a lap button so you can count laps. It has the ability to virtually race yourself or others from their tracks. It can also handle the "Vector" power monitors that are built into the pedals (not SPD compatible) and costs up to $1500. (Many sites such as Strava can give you a good estimate of your power from weight, speed, climb, etc... I also calibrate relative to HR at a gym.) The Edge 1000 can also accept the Varia variable distance headlight and tail lights, including rear view radar warnings. The Edge 1000 can also interface with the Di2 electronic shifting if it has wireless, to show and record the gear that you're in. I have Di2 electronic shifting, but Shimano hasn't come out with a wireless transmitter yet for the XTR mountain biking version. I suspect when it does, the Edge will be able to record that.

Both the eTrex 35t and Edge 1000 can display phone text and email messages. But the Edge has WiFi for automatic syncing to the web of your rides without wires. I find this almost useless, however, as I already need to plug the Edge into the computer for an hour after each ride to charge, and it syncs then. So I've never turned on the WiFi, which just sucks the limited battery life, which ironically means you need to plug in more often by using WiFi.

On the other hand, the eTrex Touch 35t has good Geocaching capability, and versatility for hiking, hunting and other off road sports, not available on the Edge 1000. The relative value of these features depends on what you're into. I'm more in the outdoor than road biking.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the review. The eTrex Touch 35t looks pretty good. If I hadn't just replaced my 810 I might have bought it instead. Though I don't use most of the better functions you mentioned. I'm certainly glad I did not buy the 1000. Battery life is paramount to me and I get up to 16 hours with the 810. Still time to get n a Tahoe ride


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## Babas (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks a lot, BigLarry - definitely eTrex 35 went on my list of candidates, and now it is just need to decide this or Edge 520 (primarily for MTB, but sometimes road biking too).


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Babas said:


> Thanks a lot, BigLarry - definitely eTrex 35 went on my list of candidates, and now it is just need to decide this or Edge 520 (primarily for MTB, but sometimes road biking too).


Took a quick look at the Edge 520 out of curiosity, using the Garmin Compare and reading the overviews. The Edge 520 is very similar to the Edge 1000 in capability. Just that the Edge 520 has a smaller screen which is not a touch screen, and a couple less features, like no unit to unit transfer. But it has a few shocking differences. It cannot accept data cards and cannot add maps!! Without maps, you cannot navigate in practice. (Are you going through a lake or over the edge of a cliff to that next waypoint?) The Edge 520 is just a data logger.

But the worst, if to be believed, the Edge 520 cannot accept any routes. Whereas the Edge 1000 can handle 100 routes, the Edge 520 handles zero!!! But considering the Edge 1000 can't properly navigate on the routes that are loaded, per my previous post, maybe it's effectively the same. In any case, this fatal flaw completely disqualifies either of these Edge units for any ride that needs navigation, either for negotiating a new ride, or for emergency navigation.


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## Babas (Mar 5, 2008)

Well, in fact you can add OSM maps, but yes - it is not for navigation. But for me it is sufficient, I just need to add GPX and follow it. While I do agree 520 is not for navigation, this is a dilemma 520 - better fitness tracking and etc., but lack in navigation, eTrex 35 - much better navigation, but lack in fitness (not sure I need that)... Nevertheless - thanks a lot for feedback and great review, cause as I've looked around, there are not so many eTrex Touch 35 reviews online yet.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> ...For hiking models, even a single ride may have multiple tracks for every time you lose reception. I have no problem joining them manually however. I don't save them as I found it eliminates a lot of information. Instead I just sort them by day and then join them if necessary, if I have several days of downloads...


Hi, Larry. Thanks for the detailed review of these products. May I ask what software you're using to join multiple tracks? Do you find that you have to join the files quite frequently when using the eTrex 35t? About how long does it take you to "join" the separate tracks?

I'm currently using a Garmin 705 and haven't ever had to join files, but I'm interested in replacing it so that, among other things, I can use the new speed and (separate) cadence sensors as the sensor arm on the combined speed-cadence unit isn't long enough to register the wheel magnet on my fatbike. Thanks!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Hi, Larry. Thanks for the detailed review of these products. May I ask what software you're using to join multiple tracks? Do you find that you have to join the files quite frequently when using the eTrex 35t? About how long does it take you to "join" the separate tracks?
> 
> I'm currently using a Garmin 705 and haven't ever had to join files, but I'm interested in replacing it so that, among other things, I can use the new speed and (separate) cadence sensors as the sensor arm on the combined speed-cadence unit isn't long enough to register the wheel magnet on my fatbike. Thanks!


I join multiple tracks in Garmin's MapSource or the newer BaseCamp. Just select the tracks and a right click menu allows you to join them.

However, with the new GPS units such as the Edge and eTrex Touch 35t, the tracking now operates differently from my older GPSMAP60CSx, such that I almost never need to join tracks now with the newer units.

On the older GPS (60CSx), the tracking started as soon as you turned on the GPS and/or activated tracking. If it lost signal, a new track is started. Thus I had to join them at the end of the ride.

On the newer units, you have a specific START/STOP button to begin/end the ride. On the Edge 1000 it's a hardware button. On the eTrex Touch 35t, it's a big soft button on the bottom popup screen. I actually like the eTrex 35t button better as the display tells you before you hit the button if you've already hit the START/STOP button so you don't toggle twice accidentally.

On these newer units, all tracking between START and STOP goes onto one track, even if you loose signal. So no need to manually join, or clip the ends or the track that are bogus information for time waiting for the GPS to lock and get yourself ready. Furthermore, at the end of the ride, when you hit STOP, each unit will ask if you want to discard or save the track, along with all related information such as Heart Rate, Temperature, Speed, Cadence, .. which goes into a separate dated file on the GPS, for which there's lots of room to store tracks. I believe both the Edge and eTrex models allow a History of 200 tracks to be stored, which will take a while to hit even doing a track every day or so like I do.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

You're saying that the eTrex touch 35 now does track recording like fitness models, and that you don't have the tracklog overruns and the need to join multiple files later to get a single ride if you're on 1sec recording for more than a couple hours? It doesn't have the hard 10,000 point limit anymore?

If that's the case, even though it was already tops on my list, it's moved even higher.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Tempe Sensor Evaluated with eTrex Touch 35t*

I've got some time now using the external Tempe sensor accessory with the eTrex Touch 35t. I find it has the same large steps of 1.8F or 1.0C resolution of the Edge 100 temperature sensor. I put the Tempe sensor in the top pocket of my Camelback and find it has very slow variation (actually too slow - almost nothing over a several hour ride). The sensor in the Edge appears to follow temperature fluctuations better. I'm going to try the Tempe sensor in different locations, like under my seat, to see if it can do better. But for now the Edge 1000 looks to be better at temperature sensing, albeit both have course resolution. With improved location of my external Tempe sensor, I suspect they'll eventually get to be similar.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Edge 1000 battery drives me nuts*

The battery life of the Edge 1000 is driving me nuts. I did a three day weekend recently and a USB charger failed me. I started charging one night with 40% power left. I saw it charge to 50% and went to sleep. Well... in the morning, the Edge 1000 was completely dead. I'm thinking that it turned on after finishing charging, then drained overnight(???). In an hour I had at breakfast, it barely got a 15% charge, and went dead an hour into the ride. Luckily I had the eTrex Touch 35t with me, that did great.

Then at home last week, I unplugged the Edge 1000 after charging and turned it off, as indicated by the "Power Off" message and a blank screen. The next morning when going for a ride, the Edge 1000 was completely drained. I'm thinking it must have somehow turned itself back on and drained itself overnight. Fortunately, I had two hours to get some charge into it to record my ride that day.

I'm now becoming convinced the Edge 1000 is more trouble than it is worth. In contrast, the eTrex Touch 35t is working better for me in every way. I've been holding onto the Edge 1000, thinking software may eventually fix the fatal navigation flaws mentioned before. But the battery problems are embedded in hardware. I still have time to return to REI.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Wherewolf said:


> Still time to get in a Tahoe ride


How about this week? Wednesday or the weekend? I'm in shape and ready now. I'll send a message to you.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Harold said:


> You're saying that the eTrex touch 35 now does track recording like fitness models, and that you don't have the tracklog overruns and the need to join multiple files later to get a single ride if you're on 1sec recording for more than a couple hours? It doesn't have the hard 10,000 point limit anymore?
> 
> If that's the case, even though it was already tops on my list, it's moved even higher.


Yes, the eTrex Touch 35t now does track recording like fitness models. However, the Garmin specifications do say the eTrex has a 10,000 point limit on the track log, whereas the Edge 1000 does not indicate a limit. Both units indicate a limit of 200 Tracks/History, however. On a 7.5 hour ride, I hit 6600 track points. Thus I could probably do an 11-12 hour ride at the current track log settings. But I could probably set the log frequency down a little for longer rides. No need for such high density, even on longer rides. And I could pause the recording when stopped, but I don't out of fear of forgetting to restart.

You can select a profile for each bike, which I do since I have a bike on each coast that I ride half the time. I set up different screens for the two bikes as the CT riding is different than CA. (No need to display percent climb in CT, for instance.) And the eTrex will automatically find the appropriate sensors (heart rate, speed, cadence, temperature) for each profile.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> Yes, the eTrex Touch 35t now does track recording like fitness models. However, the Garmin specifications do say the eTrex has a 10,000 point limit on the track log, whereas the Edge 1000 does not indicate a limit. Both units indicate a limit of 200 Tracks/History, however. On a 7.5 hour ride, I hit 6600 track points. Thus I could probably do an 11-12 hour ride at the current track log settings. But I could probably set the log frequency down a little for longer rides. No need for such high density, even on longer rides. And I could pause the recording when stopped, but I don't out of fear of forgetting to restart.
> 
> You can select a profile for each bike, which I do since I have a bike on each coast that I ride half the time. I set up different screens for the two bikes as the CT riding is different than CA. (No need to display percent climb in CT, for instance.) And the eTrex will automatically find the appropriate sensors (heart rate, speed, cadence, temperature) for each profile.


Oh, hmmm. I'm not holding out hope then. I figured you were saying that because you had exceeded 10,000 points.

My Oregon (that I loved, and lost), allowed for profiles and had a soft start/stop/reset button on the stopwatch activity screen. But it still had that hard 10,000 point limit and I still had to piece together track segments after a longer ride.

If I'm moving at bike speed, I'm using 1 sec recording. Where I live, the trails are FAR too twisty to be adequately recorded by anything less. Sometimes, even 1sec isn't quite enough. I only use lower recording intervals when I'm hiking or otherwise moving more slowly.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> I join multiple tracks in Garmin's MapSource or the newer BaseCamp. Just select the tracks and a right click menu allows you to join them.
> 
> However, with the new GPS units such as the Edge and eTrex Touch 35t, the tracking now operates differently from my older GPSMAP60CSx, such that I almost never need to join tracks now with the newer units.
> 
> ...


Hi, Larry. Thanks, once again, for thoughtfully addressing our questions. It sounds like the joining of files is a non-issue for the current eTrex models unless the data recordings are extremely long. I'm curious if you have any comments about one other issue.

When riding new mountain bike trails here in New Jersey, I've been uploading my ride files to the Open Street Map website and using an editor to trace them onto the map for inclusion in future releases. When I download the latest OSM and place it onto my Garmin 705, I then have maps of everywhere I've been (and some additional trail systems that others have traced). It sounds like there's no problem in continuing this practice using the current eTrex Touch 35/35t devices. Is there any advantage in having the 35t when adding the OSMs as I've described?

Specifically, do you know if you can "overlay" the OSM tracings "on top of" the pre-loaded TOPO maps? If loading the OSM map would _replace_ the TOPO map, then investing in the 35t would probably be unneccesary for me as I would favor having the trails displayed. On the other hand, if you could see the OSM mtb trails _on top of_ the TOPO map...now that would be interesting!

If this works anything like the way things do on the 705, I imagine that if the TOPO map on the 35t is defined as the "base map," then the OSM could be added as a supplemental map, and it might just be possible to see both at once (with the OSM as a transparent layer?). Thanks for any light that you can shed on this issue...


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Specifically, do you know if you can "overlay" the OSM tracings "on top of" the pre-loaded TOPO maps?


 That may work. But I haven't yet played with OSM. I am interested in testing this, but it may take a while before I get to that.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

MTBR is thrashing my formatting on this post. Repeated again below.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Harold said:


> Oh, hmmm. I'm not holding out hope then. I figured you were saying that because you had exceeded 10,000 points. My Oregon (that I loved, and lost), allowed for profiles and had a soft start/stop/reset button on the stopwatch activity screen. But it still had that hard 10,000 point limit and I still had to piece together track segments after a longer ride. If I'm moving at bike speed, I'm using 1 sec recording. Where I live, the trails are FAR too twisty to be adequately recorded by anything less. Sometimes, even 1sec isn't quite enough. I only use lower recording intervals when I'm hiking or otherwise moving more slowly.


 I just realized I gave you the point count for my Edge 1000 not the eTrex. On the same 7.5 hour ride (including stops, lunch): 
The Edge 1000 recorded 6597 points over 24.8 miles, 5128' of climb. 
The eTrex Touch 35t recorded 2031 points over 24.6 miles and 4881' of climb

So the eTrex using the standard recording rate could record ~37 hours of ride within a 10,000 track point limit. 
(The eTrex "Activity" settings are: Record Method - Auto; Interval - Normal; Auto Pause - Off; Auto Start - Off) 
I could increase the Interval to More Often, but I'm happy with this normal rate, as per the discussion below.

I compared the tracks of the two at many points along the route. I could indeed see the Edge tracks had ~3x more points. But even on tight switchbacks, the error was minimal from track rounding. I saw a greater ~20' error between the two on track position from GPS location. I happened to have track points where I back tracked, as well as returned along a same short trail section hours later.

On the immediate back tracking of a fraction of a mile: 
The Edge tracks were off by ~20' (between forward and reverse). 
The eTrex tracks were off by ~0' (between forward and reverse), higher accuracy even though they were coarser data points.

On a small section of trail with a wide switchback that I looped back on hours later: 
The Edge tracks were off by zero to 10' (between early and later). 
The eTrex tracks were off by zero to 10' (between early and later). 
Errors from the courser eTrex points on curves were almost always less than the ~10' accuracy error.

The overall length of the eTrex track was 0.2 miles shorter. This was an difference of 0.8%, not a big deal. It should also be noted that both the eTrex and Edge are using my bike's speedometer sensor. So in theory they should report the same. But the numbers above are from my BaseCamp summary that only uses the track data.

From Garmin Connect I get the following: 
The Edge 1000 reports 24.65 miles, 4774' of climb. 
The eTrex Touch 35t reports 25.17 miles and 4585' of climb

Note the greater error between units in Garmin Connect, which presumably uses the speedometer sensor, is less repeatable than the BaseCamp data using only the Track data. In general, I don't trust Garmin Connect as it massages data in unknown ways with all sorts of different results like this. I can add up the numbers in an Excel sheet, and get the same number in Base Camp, but never the same numbers as Garmin Connect. In this case, the eTrex Touch 35t with less track points shows a greater distance traveled.

Bottom line, I already see greater errors in the ride totals than any effect resulting from the higher density of track points. The bigger errors come from GPS position errors and data massaging. The lower standard track point rate of the eTrex looks about as good as it gets, with less than 1% error relative to the Edge when using BaseCamp data analysis.

What errors do you see on your twisty trails? Do you have a comparison between a course and fine setting on your GPS?


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> That may work. But I haven't yet played with OSM. I am interested in testing this, but it may take a while before I get to that.


Thanks, Larry. I'm not entirely sure that the "overlaying" feature that I describe is offered in any Garmin units (only have experience with the 705, and then just with loading OSM as a supplemental map in coordination with the standard, ultra low-detail Garmin base map). Perhaps I'm confusing this concept with something offered in the online mapping services like TopoFusion. I may call Garmin for assistance, but I'm not sure that any relevant information will be in their "scripted responses."


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Thanks, Larry. I'm not entirely sure that the "overlaying" feature that I describe is offered in any Garmin units (only have experience with the 705, and then just with loading OSM as a supplemental map in coordination with the standard, ultra low-detail Garmin base map). Perhaps I'm confusing this concept with something offered in the online mapping services like TopoFusion. I may call Garmin for assistance, but I'm not sure that any relevant information will be in their "scripted responses."


I have seen a similar overlay work on the older Garmin units years ago, so it's possible. Not sure how to do it though.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> I just realized I gave you the point count for my Edge 1000 not the eTrex. On the same 7.5 hour ride (including stops, lunch):
> The Edge 1000 recorded 6597 points over 24.8 miles, 5128' of climb.
> The eTrex Touch 35t recorded 2031 points over 24.6 miles and 4881' of climb
> 
> ...


Interesting. So does the etrex touch 35 have a 1 second interval buried in the settings? I vaguely remember from my old Oregon that I had similar options, but I don't remember the details of how they worked since it's been years since I messed with them.

I do have a comparison. Here's my Forerunner 310XT using 1sec recording interval.

https://www.strava.com/activities/400130242

Here's a ride using the default "Smart Recording". I had recently done a master reset and forgot that setting. Same trail system. It's an absolute mess. It captured the rough shape of the trails I rode, but was WAY off.

https://www.strava.com/activities/384384971


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> I have seen a similar overlay work on the older Garmin units years ago, so it's possible. Not sure how to do it though.


Will post if I can dig up any info on this...


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Poor Edge 1000 Accuracy*

The accuracy of the Edge 1000 leaves much to be desired. I did a ride today where I had the Edge 1000 and eTrex Touch 35t both on the handlebars. I also have tracks from previous rides in the same location with an older GPSMAP 60CSx, which is proven to be very accurate. (The only reason I did't upgrade to the GPSMAP 64 is that I read the accuracy greatly degraded. Seems like that's true of all the newer Garmins.)

The Edge and eTrex both have GPS and GLONASS both enabled for better accuracy (for what it's worth).

For rides at Rockland Preserve in CT, I have the following tracks.

*Red *Tracks: GPSMAP 60CSX (duplicate ride on separate days a week apart)
*Grey *Track: eTrex Touch 35t
*Blue *Track with arrows: Edge 1000 (on the same ride as the eTrex)







Note the GPSMAP 60CSx has by far the best accuracy - within a few feet when backtracking, also well matched on doing the same trail a week apart.

The eTrex is the next most accurate, but often off by 10 or more feet.

The Edge 1000 is by far the most inaccurate, off by 40 feet or more.

Here's another section of the trail where the Edge 1000 tracks are so bad they have the trail erroneously crossing itself (upper right). And in spite of the higher data rate of the Edge, the track is clearly way off. 







(Note I rode out and back on the same trail a few times with the GPSMAP 60CSx (red tracks) to see repeatability, which was very good - within a few feet. )

The higher point count of the Edge just didn't help. The accuracy was a much bigger issue. The Edge 1000 just plotted a lot more points on a smooth curve in the wrong place.


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## luismsm (Nov 26, 2015)

I BigLarry,

I'm trying to find a GPS for MTB also, and I was thinking on Garmin Edge 810, but there is somethings I don't like, like the missing compass (I don't understand how could a high-end device miss this), and so I'm trying to read some Etrex Touch reviews, but since does not exist a complete one, can you please clarify me some doubts?

Can we use touchscreen with gloves?
Do Etrex charge the batteries via USB?
Garmin Connect functionality is like in Edge 810? Can it automatically upload your rides, and can you send tracks to Etrex via garmin connect mobile (android), without need to use a PC?

Many Thanks!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

luismsm said:


> Hi BigLarry,
> 
> I'm trying to find a GPS for MTB also, and I was thinking on Garmin Edge 810, but there is somethings I don't like, like the missing compass (I don't understand how could a high-end device miss this), and so I'm trying to read some Etrex Touch reviews, but since does not exist a complete one, can you please clarify me some doubts?
> 
> ...


1. I use half finger gloves for all my riding, without having trouble on the touch GPS units. To test your question, I just put on a very thick ski glove and tried again. Sorry, The touch screen doesn't work at all with thick gloves. However, I do see many gloves are now advertised to work with touch screens. I'd try some of those. (BTW, the Edge 1000 doesn't work with the thick gloves either, in spite of saying they're glove compatible.)

2. No, the eTrex does not charge batteries in place (like most battery powered GPS). I have two pairs of rechargeable Powerex MHRAA4 2700 mAh batteries, and charge them in batch with a charger external to the eTrex. The batteries last so long however, that even with daily riding of one to two hours, I only charge my 4 AA batteries every 3-4 weeks. Without batteries installed, the eTrex still keeps all settings, and can also connect via the USB. The nice thing about replaceable AA batteries is that I don't have to recharge every day. I just wait until they die and swap them right then on the trail. (I usually get a low battery warning about 10 minutes before, so I can find a good spot to rest and do the quick swap.) And if I forget to charge the rechargeable batteries, I can instead use a set of AA alkaline batteries I carry, as spares for the GPS or small emergency flashlight or other things.

3. The Garmin Connect functionality is just the same as my Edge 1000. I plug it into my PC with a USB cable and it automatically uploads the tracks to Garmin Connect on the web. Sometimes I go several days without connecting, and it properly uploads each ride independently, as they're recorded based on my Start/Stop button and "Save" actions. In contrast, I need to hook my Edge 1000 to my PC or USB charger every ride or two, just to keep an adequate charge.

Garmin Connect Mobile is news to me. But I see at the bottom of the Garmin's eTrex Touch 35t specifications, this eTrex is listed as having Smart Notifications and can do Live Tracking with Garmin Connect Mobile. I instead usually just connect to the PC so I transfer and work with the tracks in Garmin's BaseCamp, to overlay with waypoints and tracks from other rides and different street and topo maps. At the same time, plugging into the PC automatically syncs with the web-based Garmin Connect as mentioned.


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## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Ahhh well.
I was thinking about upgrading from my Edge 800 to the 1000 for the bigger screen.
I'm middle aged and my eyes are starting to deteriorate somewhat and the larger real-estate was attractive.
Reading this thread I've decided to save my money.

Having a dynohub I've never worried about battery as my e-werk and cache battery is more than enough to keep on top of my iPhone, Edge 800 and Petzl Tikka 2xp headlight (for reading/breaking camp early etc).
I was hoping for better map utilisation but the 1000 sounds like a fizzer for my multi surface touring needs.
I guess I'll stick to my phone and paper maps.


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## andersonsmog (Oct 21, 2015)

Do you think the 35t is worth it over the 35 touch, will the topo maps be worth it?I plan to follow other peoples tracks


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

The topo maps really help to place the tracks and your route in context to everything around you, such as lakes, streams, roads, trails,mountains, etc... You can see where you need to climb or descend and the steepness. If you have an emergency that needs to go off others tracks, you can use these features to help navigate. They are very much worth the price.

However, it's generally better to buy the DVD to put the maps on the computer so BaseCamp can use the maps. The maps can also be downloaded to one or two GPS units. If your GPS that comes with a topo, such as the 35t, is plugged in, you can then also see the topo maps on the computer. It's just that you need to keep your GPS plugged in during that time.


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## andersonsmog (Oct 21, 2015)

looks like I can get the etrex 35 for about 260 and then add on the topo from the website for about 99usd is that worth it? Is there a large difference between the top 24k and 100k (sorry for all the questions I have been reading about gps' all day)


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

One more thing, the DVD topo maps are a bit more expensive - $100 vs $80 more for the 35t upgrade. So if you don't mind plugging in the GPS to see the maps on your computer, that's the slightly lower cost option.

As for 100K versus 24K, see the Garmin web site for examples and summary of the differences. The 24K maps have more resolution and allow turn-by-turn directions, which never made sense to me on the trail, especially since many of the trails are incomplete or missing anyway.

Also, whereas the 100K maps cover the entire US in one map, the 24K maps need to be purchased on a region by region basis, which ends up being a lot more. And many GPS can only accept a couple thousand map segments, which means you're unlikely to be able to fit more than a fraction of the US on your GPS with 24K maps.

Also, the 24K maps deleted a lot of trail information that's available on the 100K maps. But none of the maps are as complete as google anyway. And the lower detail of the 100K maps provide a less cluttered screen on your GPS.

For all the above reasons, I prefer the 100k maps.

I also own and use the Edge 1000 simultaneously with the eTrex Touch 35t on the handlebars and computer. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Edge's built in Cycle Maps actually have most all of the MTB trails listed, even in remote parks and areas. Much better than the topo maps on numbers of trails - like all versus almost nothing. For proper and updated MTB trails, you may want to also look at getting the Cycle Maps. I don't see a DVD for putting the Cycle maps on a computer, just an SD card for the GPS for $50.

There's also ways of downloading OSM maps to the GPS, for properly indicating MTB trails on your GPS. So I just use the Topo for topology and features, and the others for the trails. And the 100K does that just fine.


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## andersonsmog (Oct 21, 2015)

So if i purchase the cycle map along with the topo 100k i will get a topo map of the trail that i choose versus a 2d?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

andersonsmog said:


> So if i purchase the cycle map along with the topo 100k i will get a topo map of the trail that i choose versus a 2d?


Not sure what you mean. If you select the cycle maps, you see the labeled trails. If you select topo maps, you'll see the features. There's ways to do transparent overlays of one on the other as well, but I've not done that. I just flip back and forth on the maps depending on what I want to see, with less confusion and clutter than would occur from an overlay.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I wouldn't buy Garmin's maps, honestly. Use the free ones from gpsfiledepot.com. Buy the GPS without the preloaded maps, install free ones.

The only advantage I see to getting a Garmin with preloaded topo maps is that you have maps for the whole country already installed.

The 3d thing is meh. I have an Oregon 450t with preloaded topos. The 3d thing doesn't show me anything that the contour lines don't. And it displays more slowly. I don't use the 3d thing at all. It's just frankly not worth it. Learn to read a topo map.

For that matter, the preloaded maps are 100k topos, whereas I can get free 24k topos on gpsfiledepot. For detail, the 24k maps are better. Garmin sells 24k maps, also, but they cost more than 100k topos of the same area.

I also have not found a single digital trail map product to be 100% complete. Why would I pay for something like that which is incomplete? I sure won't. I can find digital data that is as complete, or more complete, for free, that's ready to load onto my Garmin (also available for a lot of areas on gpsfiledepot). Or, I can make my own that I KNOW is 100% complete, which I have also done.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

Harold said:


> I wouldn't buy Garmin's maps, honestly. Use the free ones from gpsfiledepot.com. Buy the GPS without the preloaded maps, install free ones.


What he said!


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## andersonsmog (Oct 21, 2015)

Are there ones that have bike trails? I bought the 35 without the maps for now thanks for the help


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

andersonsmog said:


> Are there ones that have bike trails? I bought the 35 without the maps for now thanks for the help


Yes, there are maps with trails. Which file you use depends on where you live. There's a guy who seems to REALLY enjoy making maps, who has been collecting trail data for his maps that he puts on gpsfiledepot. He mostly covers the eastern US, but has been adding coverage for some western states over the years, it seems. The file he uploads is called "My Trails". It's not 100% complete. I've found spots missing on his maps where I live. Typically newer trails. But it's pretty good data overall.

It's ONLY trails, though. The benefit there is that you can overlay it on top of topo maps. The key is that when you're using Garmin's Basecamp software to choose maps to send to your GPS, you have to choose ALL the maps you want to load at the same time. They will layer on your handheld, and you even have an option on your GPS to turn off individual map layers if you want to declutter your screen at any point.

I used to own a plain 'ol Oregon 450 without preloaded maps. Loved that GPS, but I lost it in the woods in N. Georgia this summer. Later in the fall, I replaced it with a used Oregon 450t with the preloaded 100k topos. I overlaid the My Trails layer on top of those preloaded topos. It's not quite as detailed as what I was using before, but it's okay. I wouldn't have purchased the 450t normally, but the price on it was less than other devices I was finding. Since I didn't pay extra for the preloaded maps, I considered it okay.

I did like the etrex 35 touch, though. I really was thinking about splurging a little and buying it. But when it came down to it, I kinda blew my budget on new toys for the year when I built my new bike a year ago, and then bought my wife a new wheelset to appease her.


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## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

rifraf said:


> Ahhh well.
> I was thinking about upgrading from my Edge 800 to the 1000 for the bigger screen.
> I'm middle aged and my eyes are starting to deteriorate somewhat and the larger real-estate was attractive.
> Reading this thread I've decided to save my money.
> ...


I changed my mind.

I really have been struggling with reading things on the 800's screen.

If my only gain is some larger realestate, and the ability to see the damn maps then the money will hopefully have been worth it.

Now I have make up my mind whether or not to sell the 800 to release the wallets agony.

Funnily enough one big difference for me was instead of getting an SD card in the bundle, the Australia/New Zealand Topo maps came preloaded like the base maps on my 1000, unlike my 800 which came with the SD card.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The 1000 uses very different maps than most other Edges (though they're the same as the Touring series). They're OSM maps, which are freely downloadable. Folks have been putting OSM (and other free maps) on their Garmins for years. Garmin can't sell 'em, which is what Garmin has done in the past.


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## endriu (Mar 10, 2016)

I have question about how works speed sensor with Etrex 35. For me it doesn't work well, doesn't work like Edge 800. I can pair sensor GSC10, it shows cadence, it shows speed when unit is outdoor and satellites are on. But only shows current speed, distance is taken from GPS, not from wheel (when I am not riding and wheel is turning - distance doesn't change). When satellites are off - no speed from wheel, no distance from wheel. 

So - this speed sensor is absolutely useless for me, doesn't work for indoor training like works on Edge, all data in track are from satellites not from sensor. So my question is - how this works for other Etrex 35 users? Maybe this is problem with my unit?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

endriu said:


> I have question about how works speed sensor with Etrex 35. For me it doesn't work well, doesn't work like Edge 800. I can pair sensor GSC10, it shows cadence, it shows speed when unit is outdoor and satellites are on. But only shows current speed, distance is taken from GPS, not from wheel (when I am not riding and wheel is turning - distance doesn't change). When satellites are off - no speed from wheel, no distance from wheel.
> 
> So - this speed sensor is absolutely useless for me, doesn't work for indoor training like works on Edge, all data in track are from satellites not from sensor. So my question is - how this works for other Etrex 35 users? Maybe this is problem with my unit?


I had my suspicions as the speed sensor on my eTrex 35t didn't seem to have an affect. But I never took my bike indoors to check that way. Please report to Garmin so they can patch their software.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> There's nothing I miss in the eTrex Touch 35t versus the Edge 1000 for my mountain biking. The eTrex can handle different bike profiles with different screen setups and different parameter settings (like types of maps for instance). The eTrex can handle fitness monitors such as Heart Rate, Cadence, and Bike Speedometer on the wheel (for improved accuracy). I also like that the eTrex has a (soft) start/stop/save button so I can start and record different rides on different days into separate tracks, just like on the Edge.
> 
> However, the Edge 1000 does have some road bike and bike training features not available on the eTrex. For instance, it has a lap button so you can count laps. It has the ability to virtually race yourself or others from their tracks. It can also handle the "Vector" power monitors that are built into the pedals (not SPD compatible) and costs up to $1500. (Many sites such as Strava can give you a good estimate of your power from weight, speed, climb, etc... I also calibrate relative to HR at a gym.) The Edge 1000 can also accept the Varia variable distance headlight and tail lights, including rear view radar warnings. The Edge 1000 can also interface with the Di2 electronic shifting if it has wireless, to show and record the gear that you're in. I have Di2 electronic shifting, but Shimano hasn't come out with a wireless transmitter yet for the XTR mountain biking version. I suspect when it does, the Edge will be able to record that.
> 
> ...


Hey, BigLarry. It's been a little over a year since you mentioned how initially impressed you were with the eTrex Touch 35T. Has your opinion changed at all since you last posted on it? Pros/Cons/Advice from your perspective? One concern I've had is the unit's relative inability to be used with full finger and/or thick gloves (I've always preferred full hand coverage for mtb'ing, and it's cold here in New Jersey currently). The screen resolution has been criticized in some reviews, too. With buttons rather than "touch," the eTrex 30x may be an alternative for persons like me.

I bought a Wahoo Elemnt last summer based on the company's apparent open communication with it's customers, frequent firmware updates, and seeming interest in making the Elemnt a real useful product. In recent months, though, the development energy has slowed to a trickle and, as is often the case, the focus doesn't seem to be on core features -- more on "frills." The map screen still can't scroll, trails aren't visible when the scale exceeds 2K feet (bad when you're riding a large trail system), the advertised phone notifications are sketchy at best (at least for me, and I've tried all the "fixes"), etc. I'm wondering if these important issues will ever be addressed. It's been frustrating and disappointing.

So, I'm open to alternatives again -- any thoughts are welcome. Thanks!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Hey, BigLarry. It's been a little over a year since you mentioned how initially impressed you were with the eTrex Touch 35T. Has your opinion changed at all since you last posted on it? Pros/Cons/Advice from your perspective? One concern I've had is the unit's relative inability to be used with full finger and/or thick gloves (I've always preferred full hand coverage for mtb'ing, and it's cold here in New Jersey currently). The screen resolution has been criticized in some reviews, too. With buttons rather than "touch," the eTrex 30x may be an alternative for persons like me.
> 
> I bought a Wahoo Elemnt last summer based on the company's apparent open communication with it's customers, frequent firmware updates, and seeming interest in making the Elemnt a real useful product. In recent months, though, the development energy has slowed to a trickle and, as is often the case, the focus doesn't seem to be on core features -- more on "frills." The map screen still can't scroll, trails aren't visible when the scale exceeds 2K feet (bad when you're riding a large trail system), the advertised phone notifications are sketchy at best (at least for me, and I've tried all the "fixes"), etc. I'm wondering if these important issues will ever be addressed. It's been frustrating and disappointing.
> 
> So, I'm open to alternatives again -- any thoughts are welcome. Thanks!


I've been using both the Edge 1000 and eTrex Touch 35T on the handlebars for the last year, and been happy with them both. I also spend half my time in CA, and the other half in CT, so I ride in both west and east coast weather.

In typical riding, I typically use the screen on the eTrex to show navigation information (speed, altitude, distance to next waypoint, ...) and the Edge to show performance information (HR, cadence, power, grade). If I'm doing short standard loops on known trails, I just take the Edge with me and leave the eTrex home.

I find both units work well in cold weather. Both touch screens have similar difficulty using the touch screens with gloves. However if you purchase proper "touch screen" gloves with conductors on the tips, the touch screen works fine with them. Personally, I just take off my glove on those rare instances I need to use the touch controls, usually while stopped to look at a map, compass, time, or temperature information.

I have found a lower cost ($650) Stages power meter I now use with the Edge 1000 and find it fun. But I only put it on the CA bike, since the information is more for entertainment, and my HR is almost as good at giving total calories (< 20% high with calibration of HR zones). The eTrex cannot interface to the power meter.

I find the smaller screen of the eTrex is not an issue for me. I can only display 3 large data fields on the eTrex versus 4 fields on the Edge. But in other detailed screens, like maps and things, the resolution is not that big an issue, since one always needs to scroll anyway. And the limited resolution is better than I can see easily on the trail anyway, with the bike bouncing around. The higher resolution can sometimes be nicer, but I don't see it as critical.

When I swap coasts, the Edge instantly finds the sensors on the new bike. But on the first ride, I need to find again all the sensors with the eTrex. I doubt this is an issue for most people, and only takes a few minutes.

Don't know anything about the Wahoo Elemnt. However, I find Garmin has superb software support. They have a help line that's very responsive with techs who speak English and very knowledgeable. And Garmin comes out with frequent upgrades to fix the little bugs and add useful new features. The Edge now supports lots of third party apps that can be selected, and the much more software capable unit.

Again, I still feel the primary difference is if you want something more for measuring performance (Edge) or for remote navigation (eTrex).


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Many thanks for your thoughts, Larry. I'd say I'm currently leaning a little more toward the "remote navigation" side of the sport, so the eTrex looks like a device worthy of further investigation.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

FitmanNJ said:


> Many thanks for your thoughts, Larry. I'd say I'm currently leaning a little more toward the "remote navigation" side of the sport, so the eTrex looks like a device worthy of further investigation.


I did not read the whole tread  ... but I have had the 1000 and the eTrex20.

If you need a navigation device for long remote rides, go eTrex 100%.
Avoid the more "advanced" Garmin products as their software does not work well.
On the 1000, the battery does not last more than 5 hours, and has several reliability issues.

The etrex20 is more primitive, but it is reliable and will take you where you need to go.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> I've been using both the Edge 1000 and eTrex Touch 35T on the handlebars for the last year, and been happy with them both.


Seems to me that the Edge 1000 has a fair bit of redundancy with this setup.

I have an Edge 520 that I might use alongside an Oregon 450 if I want more backcountry nav capability. But usually don't. The primary differences between the Edge 1000 and the Edge 520 are map and navigation related. A few data visualization things, but not a ton.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Thank you, Machianera and Harold, for the additional thoughts.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Machianera said:


> I did not read the whole tread  ... but I have had the 1000 and the eTrex20.
> 
> If you need a navigation device for long remote rides, go eTrex 100%.
> Avoid the more "advanced" Garmin products as their software does not work well.
> ...


I've found both the Edge 1000 and eTrex Touch 35t had several bug fixes over the last year, and both of them are now working reasonably well.

I'm getting closer to 8 hours on the battery with the Edge 1000. But still, it's got issues. Like are you fully charged when you start? And if I charge overnight on a camp out, the Edge will turn itself on after charging, then draining itself and my charger while I sleep!!! And you can change batteries anywhere with the eTrex, without having to carry and jury rig a slow USB charger with the Edge.

So yes, I consider the eTrex more reliable, just for power reasons.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Harold said:


> Seems to me that the Edge 1000 has a fair bit of redundancy with this setup.
> 
> I have an Edge 520 that I might use alongside an Oregon 450 if I want more backcountry nav capability. But usually don't. The primary differences between the Edge 1000 and the Edge 520 are map and navigation related. A few data visualization things, but not a ton.


The Edge and eTrex do have a lot of overlap, but the Oregon isn't that much different either. Even with redundancy I still like having more screen and more large data fields on the display from that extra unit. As for differences, Edge does more performance like laps and power meters. Whereas the eTrex is better at navigating between waypoints and geocaching. The Edge has more advanced features, but the eTrex is one that I'd stake my life on if trapped in the wilderness.

Like you, I don't always use the eTrex for short local daily rides. Just on longer and more remote rides, which is about half my riding. I always take the Edge, but sometimes it craps out on me from lack of power, and then I'm glad to have the eTrex backup.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

BigLarry said:


> The Edge and eTrex do have a lot of overlap, but the Oregon isn't that much different either. Even with redundancy I still like having more screen and more large data fields on the display from that extra unit. As for differences, Edge does more performance like laps and power meters. Whereas the eTrex is better at navigating between waypoints and geocaching. The Edge has more advanced features, but the eTrex is one that I'd stake my life on if trapped in the wilderness.
> 
> Like you, I don't always use the eTrex for short local daily rides. Just on longer and more remote rides, which is about half my riding. I always take the Edge, but sometimes it craps out on me from lack of power, and then I'm glad to have the eTrex backup.


My point is that the 520 does all of the things you carry the edge for. It overlaps less with the etrex. The battery life is significantly better. I've done 10+hr rides with mine and had a pretty significant amount of power remaining.

I've been using actual paper maps for navigation on unfamiliar trails, too. The only time I'm using digital mapping (either on my phone or on the Oregon) is when I don't have good paper maps available to me or when I'm scouting new trails.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> I've found both the Edge 1000 and eTrex Touch 35t had several bug fixes over the last year, and both of them are now working reasonably well.
> 
> I'm getting closer to 8 hours on the battery with the Edge 1000. But still, it's got issues. Like are you fully charged when you start? And if I charge overnight on a camp out, the Edge will turn itself on after charging, then draining itself and my charger while I sleep!!! And you can change batteries anywhere with the eTrex, without having to carry and jury rig a slow USB charger with the Edge.
> 
> So yes, I consider the eTrex more reliable, just for power reasons.


BigLarry: So I decided to get an eTrex Touch 35, which I understand is equivalent to your eTrex Touch 35T, but without the preloaded maps. So far, I like the unit: The screen is nice and readable, even in bright sunlight; the "electronic compass" indeed does show the direction the bike is pointed at all times (no confusion at intersections when stopped). I'm going to need to "doctor" my gloves to get the touch interface to work more effectively (I expect a delivery of some "conductive thread" soon). Overall, though, I'm optimistic about the unit.

I found a topo OSM map for my area on GPSFileDepot.com and it works fine, although the elevation lines are for 25 meter increments (~82 feet), so they aren't too useful in all but the hilliest areas. There's a terrific New Jersey topo map with elevation lines every 25 feet of elevation change, but it doesn't have the OSM trails for the state included, and OSM file site that I've been using (Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap) currently doesn't have a transparent version of its maps available (funny thing is that it has a checkbox for that selection, but it doesn't yield any maps). I need to search some other sites...).

I have noticed a couple of puzzling issues, though, that I thought I'd throw out there for your comments (and any other's):

(1) I bought some rechargeable Duracell NiMH AA batteries to use with the Touch 35. They were "precharged" when I bought them, so I selected "Precharged NiMH" in the battery setup screen. From the moment I installed them, they only showed "2 bars" of charge, i.e., it's like they were 50% discharged when brand new. As an alternative, I also tried selecting "NiMH" in the battery selection screen, and I got "3 bars," but that dropped to "2 bars" shortly after use. Either way, it seems like I'm only getting 4-5 hours before the eTrex shuts itself off. At the start, I was running the Touch 35 without any battery use management (i.e., screen brightness at max, no screen timeout, etc.), so that may be the reason for the short battery life. Temperatures have generally been in the upper 20s - low 40s, too, so the cold has probably been sapping battery life. On Sunday, though, it hit 67 degrees here and I didn't see a noticeable increase in battery life. I tried using the 2-minute timeout setting on the screen today after loading fully recharged batteries and it still only showed "2-bars" of charge initially -- although I see it's sitting at 3 bars currently (indoor) after about 2 hours of use.

I spoke to Garmin Customer Service and they mentioned using the batteries sold by Garmin, making it sound like they were uniquely suited for the "Precharged NiMH" battery setting. None of the manuals, though, seem to say that you need to use the Garmin batteries to have the battery charge indicator work correctly.

What has your experience been? Do you use the Garmin batteries? Do you think my settings and the air temperature are the culprits in depleting the batteries so rapidly? The manual says that battery life should be "up to 16 hours."

(2) I've noticed that the trip/activity timer starts up immediately after tapping the mountain bike image despite the fact that I have "Auto Start" set to "Off." It requires doing a data reset immediately prior to starting a ride to get the ride duration and data recorded properly. The Garmin Rep seemed to say that this is a known bug. Do you notice the same behavior?

3) Regarding display of phone notifications, the eTrex seems to pair fine with my iPhone 6s. I had a friend try calling me and a notification appeared on the eTrex screen. But I don't seem to be getting notifications for emails and text messages, though (admittedly, still need to do a little more testing). What's been your experience?

4) I selected "Temperature" for one of my display fields. It stayed blank for about 20 minutes into a ride, so I swapped that field for another data item. Does the eTrex require the Tempe accessory to register a temperature (hadn't noticed this issue as of my last call to Garmin)?

Thanks for any thoughts on these issues, Larry. By the way, in the time that it's taken me to create this post, the battery level on my eTrex has now dropped from 3 down to 2-bars even though the screen has been darkened/"timed-out" most of the time. Seems strange...


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ: 

I use the PowerEx 2800 mA-hour NiMH AA batteries. They last at least a dozen hours or more, or a couple weeks of daily riding between swap out for a second pair. The Garmin display properly shows full charge after I've insert a fresh set, with the battery type set to NiMH. I use my eTrex in CT (two weeks/month when not in CA) with temperatures in the 20s-40s without issue from the unit or batteries or the indicator. 

The Temperature reading needs the external Tempe accessory. I put it on my shoe, but might change to under the seat, as it reads about 1-2C higher than my Edge, due to my body heat even outside the shoe. 

With the latest update, I also see the timer starting on its own after I end a ride. Didn't do that before. I may call Garmin to ask what happened. I suspect an update will fix it soon. For now, I just stop the timer and don't save to clear any information before a ride. 

I haven't used the phone pairing with my eTrex. But on the Edge, it only shows phone caller information. No email ever. I used to see text messages but don't remember seeing them recently. Haven't played with it much as I don't care too much. If I'm riding, I'll just check my phone at the next point I want to stop.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> FitmanNJ:
> 
> I use the PowerEx 2800 mA-hour NiMH AA batteries. They last at least a dozen hours or more, or a couple weeks of daily riding between swap out for a second pair. The Garmin display properly shows full charge after I've insert a fresh set, with the battery type set to NiMH. I use my eTrex in CT (two weeks/month when not in CA) with temperatures in the 20s-40s without issue from the unit or batteries or the indicator.
> 
> ...


BigLarry:

Those Duracells that I'm using are 2500mA-hour, so "fairly" comparable. To be sure, are your PowerEx batteries rechargeable, or one-time use? I suspected that the Tempe was required. Too bad the latest eTrex update caused that ride timer regression, but it's not a "killer concern" -- more an inconvenience.

Finally, I've found "notifications" on all of the devices that I've used with that "claimed" capability flakey -- probably best to avoid using it and do what you do. I provide a service, though, and clients tend to think that you're hovering by your phone, waiting for their call/email/text. If I were to see a notification from a client, I'd generally stop to respond, but the technology just doesn't seem to be up to it.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> BigLarry:
> 
> Those Duracells that I'm using are 2500mA-hour, so "fairly" comparable. To be sure, are your PowerEx batteries rechargeable, or one-time use? I suspected that the Tempe was required. Too bad the latest eTrex update caused that ride timer regression, but it's not a "killer concern" -- more an inconvenience.
> 
> ...


I'm using the rechargeable NiMH batteries, the only ones that make sense. I buy the highest quality since a pack of four will last several years.

The timer self-starting issue is sure to be fixed soon. I haven't even called yet to report it, as I'm sure Garmin must know by now and rolling out a patch soon.

For anything urgent, I set my phone loud enough to hear, and in an accessible place like my front pocket - with a good protective case.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

FitmanNJ said:


> ...I bought some rechargeable Duracell NiMH AA batteries to use with the Touch 35. They were "precharged" when I bought them, so I selected "Precharged NiMH" in the battery setup screen. From the moment I installed them, they only showed "2 bars" of charge, i.e., it's like they were 50% discharged when brand new. As an alternative, I also tried selecting "NiMH" in the battery selection screen, and I got "3 bars," but that dropped to "2 bars" shortly after use. Either way, it seems like I'm only getting 4-5 hours before the eTrex shuts itself off. At the start, I was running the Touch 35 without any battery use management (i.e., screen brightness at max, no screen timeout, etc.), so that may be the reason for the short battery life. Temperatures have generally been in the upper 20s - low 40s, too, so the cold has probably been sapping battery life. On Sunday, though, it hit 67 degrees here and I didn't see a noticeable increase in battery life. I tried using the 2-minute timeout setting on the screen today after loading fully recharged batteries and it still only showed "2-bars" of charge initially -- although I see it's sitting at 3 bars currently (indoor) after about 2 hours of use...


Just as a follow-up to this comment, those "precharged" batteries may have been so from the factory, but sitting around at the store must have caused a substantial loss of charge. Since I recharged them fully, I've gotten a solid four rides out of them before getting down to "one bar." That's not unusually long, but like I said, I'm not using any battery saving techniques at this point. The four rides represents at least 10+ hours of use, which I'm OK with considering the circumstances...


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Just as a follow-up to this comment, those "precharged" batteries may have been so from the factory, but sitting around at the store must have caused a substantial loss of charge. Since I recharged them fully, I've gotten a solid four rides out of them before getting down to "one bar." That's not unusually long, but like I said, I'm not using any battery saving techniques at this point. The four rides represents at least 10+ hours of use, which I'm OK with considering the circumstances...


 Good to hear you found the problem. With my PowerEx 2800 mA-H batteries, I believe I'm getting ~16 hours on a full charge, without any special power saving options. Your 2500 mA-H batteries will be proportionally a bit less but still fine. With repeated charging, your battery capacity will likely improve a bit at first, then decay over a couple years.

With NiMH batteries, full cycles between full charge and empty are better for long life and capacity, unlike Lithium that can be charged anytime. I let the batteries drop to near dead (with the popup warning) before switching them out, often with a quick stop on the trail. Best to pause the tracking before the swap to retain the most data. Even with this, some cumulative totals like calories will not add up properly with a battery swap in the middle of a track. So for complete data, try to swap them before a ride. (This is less of a concern for me as I also have an Edge on the bars for backup data.)


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> Good to hear you found the problem. With my PowerEx 2800 mA-H batteries, I believe I'm getting ~16 hours on a full charge, without any special power saving options. Your 2500 mA-H batteries will be proportionally a bit less but still fine. With repeated charging, your battery capacity will likely improve a bit at first, then decay over a couple years.
> 
> With NiMH batteries, full cycles between full charge and empty are better for long life and capacity, unlike Lithium that can be charged anytime. I let the batteries drop to near dead (with the popup warning) before switching them out, often with a quick stop on the trail. Best to pause the tracking before the swap to retain the most data. Even with this, some cumulative totals like calories will not add up properly with a battery swap in the middle of a track. So for complete data, try to swap them before a ride. (This is less of a concern for me as I also have an Edge on the bars for backup data.)


Good advice -- I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

BigLarry said:


> The eTrex Touch timer self-starting issue is sure to be fixed soon. I haven't even called yet to report it, as I'm sure Garmin must know by now and rolling out a patch soon.


Good News. As expected, Garmin just came out with a fix to the trip/activity timer self-start despite having "Auto Start" set to "Off."

You can see all the update history with details on the fixes the *eTrex Touch *here.
And for completeness on this thread, details on fixes to the *Edge 1000 *are here.

In particular, changes to the eTrex touch from version 3.50 to the latest version 3.60:


 Fixed issue where auto-start setting would not work. 
 Fixed issue where activities would fail to sync to GCM after completing. 
 Fixed issue where touching the screen would wake up the unit when it was in battery save mode.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

BigLarry said:


> Good News. As expected, Garmin just came out with a fix to the trip/activity timer self-start despite having "Auto Start" set to "Off."
> 
> You can see all the update history with details on the fixes the *eTrex Touch *here.
> And for completeness on this thread, details on fixes to the *Edge 1000 *are here.
> ...


Yes, good news, the update does seem to fix the Auto Start issue. I'm glad to see that Garmin addressed the issue so quickly. When I had an Edge 705, it seemed like fixes were much slower in coming...if at all.

My eTrex Touch 35 has been working very well overall. I've noticed that the map tracking has "frozen" a couple of times (position triangle stops moving), but cycling to another screen, then returning to the map seems to get it caught up and tracking again. Also, I seem to remember someone reporting that their unit was using GPS to calculate speed despite the presence of a speed or speed/cadence sensor. I've spun my wheel while stopped and noticed the speed display respond, so at least in my case, the eTrex is using the sensor for speed data. So far, I'm pretty pleased with the unit!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Yes, good news, the update does seem to fix the Auto Start issue. I'm glad to see that Garmin addressed the issue so quickly. When I had an Edge 705, it seemed like fixes were much slower in coming...if at all.
> 
> My eTrex Touch 35 has been working very well overall. I've noticed that the map tracking has "frozen" a couple of times (position triangle stops moving), but cycling to another screen, then returning to the map seems to get it caught up and tracking again. Also, I seem to remember someone reporting that their unit was using GPS to calculate speed despite the presence of a speed or speed/cadence sensor. I've spun my wheel while stopped and noticed the speed display respond, so at least in my case, the eTrex is using the sensor for speed data. So far, I'm pretty pleased with the unit!


At one point, I thought the speed sensor was not being used. It could have been at that point I didn't have the sensor properly connected in the setup. I also have now seen evidence the speed sensor indeed works properly.

A big advantage of the Garmin products is the tremendous support they give. The support lines have very knowledgeable technical people who speak good English. They also update their software rapidly to fix bugs and add useful new features. Also, they listen well on hardware updates too. For instance, on the older eTrex models I used, the AA batteries had too much play and could disconnect on very bumpy trails. But the new versions of the eTrex have a much tighter battery compartment fixing this issue. I really like Garmin for this reason of rapid improvement in all ways, and have bought several GPS from them.


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## Arnaldo (Dec 9, 2013)

Anybody have experience with UK spec Edge 1000 with the UK preloaded maps? I presume I can wipe out the UK maps in the built-in memory and replace them with US ones. Would that be a correct assumption? If yes, would doing that cost money or can it be done free? The reason I ask is because Merlin Cycles has a great deal on an UK Edge 1000 but if I end up spending more and jumping through more hoops to get it to work for the US then the savings might not be worth it. Thanks in advance for the feedback.


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## vic0280 (May 7, 2015)

Anyone using the edge 1000 on a bike with the Jones H Bar on it? I just picked up a Salsa Marakesh and put on the H Bar, I don't and haven't done any touring, but looking into it for the future and or just new routes. I have a REI dividend burning a hole in my pocket, and this thing looks cool. Just curious if anyone mounted on the front bar or back bar. any pics would be helpful.


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