# BTLOS Carbon Rims - New (well priced) Chinese Mfg and Retail Option



## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey guys,

Over in the 29er components form there is a Cheep Chinese carbon rim thread - you know the one.

Well, I was loitering around and noticed this new company BTLOS (Beyond the Limits of Self), drop in and announce themselves with a shameless self plug. And I took the click bait.

Backstory: Not a week before I ordered some Nextie premium rims for my new build. I'm always skeptical, and really prefer to go with something that has some history...which sometimes means I overpay, lol. Got the 29er, 36mm external wide rims. Awesome. Expensive.

Well, low and behold BTLOS has the same rim profile, which I like very much. 29mm being a good width in my opinion, and with slightly thicker 3.5mm sidewalls. They also offer it in a more premium package, with combination T700/T800 with slightly more T800 (which cost twice what the T700 does) than Nextie, while using a slightly more simplistic layup with a single overlap angle of 45 degrees, and guarantee the same roundness and flatness. So, nearly identical product, with the benefit of a little bit of a pricier make-up material wise, and perhaps a little less pricey due to simplified layup. I imagine the difference in cost overall, should be nil. But...

Nextie, $240 per rim. 
BTLOS, $170 per rim.

Nextie was kind enough to offer me their xmas discount of $35 per rim, early. And I got a second set lower tier rims from the to lace and sell.

BTLOS has an xmas sale too, with 15% off.

Now $205 vs $144.50.

BTLOS was slightly cheaper for shipping...and offered to invoice me in Canadian, at the days exchange rate - this to me is great because it could save me 2.5% fx fee.

I sort of cried a little, seeing my money go down the toilet...overall the same rims at Nextie were $200 Canadian more! Many will tell you the two rims are likely identical. Perhaps even from the same factory, who knows. I CAN tell you Nextie is only a 25 min drive from BTLOS, who seem to me to actually be a factory and not just a reseller/middle man. Not sure about Nextie, but I get the sense they are a reseller.

I have chatted back and fourth with both Nextie, and BTLOS. I can tell you that the guys at Nextie are nice guys, but to me BTLOS is out to prove something - they have a sales person available in the morning and all evening, and they are responsive, sending pics and having their engineers literally draw a cad picture and send to answer a tech question - it was quite impressive.

Long story short, I have a small wheel building business side gig, and I thought...why not. I need to know...so I am going to be the guinea pig. If they are indeed the same quality, then I know what rims that I will use for my local carbon wheel builds, and I'll just sell the extra set off.

They don't seem to have a lot of profiles posted yet, but given the fact they are a new B2C company that I believe has longer standing B2B track record, I think they have more profiles, just not yet posted to their web site. I am hoping they get their product range a little more sorted, but I'm happy to have found them. upon searching; it seems they have only been online for little over a month. They did offer the same 36mm rim in 650B, even though it isn't posted - so I know they have more. Not much yet in the 27-35mm internal width that I think is optimal, but I hope more will come.

So far, I can say service is really second to none, and I don't just mean for an Asian rim company - I deal with Hope, DT Swiss, and WTB on a semi frequent, and I'm just as happy with the service provided on my first rim purchase, and their eagerness to help/troubleshoot.

I do hope they get some more interesting and trendy rim profiles up in the coming weeks/months. If they can, they may be a winner.

When I have both comparable BTLOS and Nextie rims in hand, I'll will take some detail pics and give you an initial impression.

NEXTIE | New Official Site | Carbon Bicycle Store
www.btlos.com


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## bikerfisher11 (Oct 13, 2013)

Subscribed!
Thanks for sharing this find with us, really looking forward to your review. Always nice to see more options (and having it in CAD is nice too since I'm in Toronto). If they are as good as you think I'll have them on my short list for the ID29mm option.


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

Clicking on that link I have to think that Nextie and Btlos are the same companies. Websites are identical.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

@bikerfisher11 - I am also located in Toronto (near Keel and Dundas) - you are welcome to come by and check the rims out if you like, when they arrive. Might as well wait so you can compare Nextie to Btlos. It's always nice to handle something before you buy and I'm happy to help if I can. I know it's tough to put your trust in a company that's on the other side of the globe, and it's hard to sort through what is good and what is junk, who's telling the whole truth, etc.

@Rngspnr - Most of the Asian sites that allow customization of rims have nearly identical user interface. You'll find light bicycle very similar. they are all physically different entities, however. I get the sense there might be a couple dozen manufacturers and resellers in this area. Some make rims for larger companies and have customer direct spin-offs. To get a sense of the geography, check out the map I made of the more well known brands - most are within a few minutes driving distance of one another. Hard to know however, who is making their own stuff, and who is just re-branding and adding cost. I can with some certainty, that BTLOS is actually making rims themselves, and this direct to customer thing is new for them. This scenario is best (in my humble opinion
), because I think this is where you'll get the best quality at the lowest cost. I can confirm the cost part at least - I will soon be able to tell you about the quality, and overall value. Stay Tuned!


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## global (Apr 3, 2006)

Saw your post and emailed btlos to see about some cx wheels. Hopefully similar to rg922 gravel light bikes with lighter t800.will follow up when they respond. Thanks for the heads up.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Not bad. I'm more impressed with EIE's lineup at similar pricing, except for this one:

https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/super-light-MTB-29er-28mm-wide-22mm-carbon-rim?filter=1

That's the best price I've seen for an XC rim in that weight class. EIE's version is about $50 more per side, though asymmetric and a bit lighter.


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## bikerfisher11 (Oct 13, 2013)

@mjw - Thanks! I will very likely take you up on the offer to come see them in person when you're done. I'm in Scarborough but would happily make the trip to the west side.
Much appreciated.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Rngspnr said:


> Clicking on that link I have to think that Nextie and Btlos are the same companies. Websites are identical.


I'm thinking most of these guys are selling the same stuff or, rather, are re-selling the same stuff. Their rim profiles and product lineups all look almost identical.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

@alexdi - eie looks to have a very clear product range, which I like. Makes picking your rim easy. And price looks okay, for sure. I don't like the shape of their symmetric rims, but their asym rims look nice. I would however, prefer some options with thicker rim bead walls. They are calling some rims with 3mm sidewalls (the burliest they seem to have), downhill and freeride rims, which is a bit of a joke when other sellers offer DH/FR rims with 4.5mm sidewalls, and trail/enduro rims with 3.5mm sidewalls.

BTLOS doesn't seem to have their product range quite in order yet, and they definitely could use more asym and symmetrical rims in a medium/wide internal width (27mm-35mm). I do think that you'll see those being posted in the near term...of so i get the sense. Seems they do have some nice slightly narrower stuff.

However, if you want a more upscale rim, with combination t700+t800 composition (which is more costly to make), they are fantastic in regards to price. I hope they continue with this sort of offering. This is the rim I mean in specific, and while they have it only posted in 29, they do stock it/produce it in 27.5 also (I checked):

https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/bm29s-36?filter=2,14

Alexdi, are you on boost hubs? Or regular spacing?

I'm on regular spacing (15x100, 12x142), but still chose to go Symmetrical. I definitely believe that asym rims will make a stronger wheel overall and their are benefits, but this particular rim caught me. It's burly, the right width for me, and I can build a pretty strong wheel - well built symmetric rim wheels have never been an issue for me. Also the tall profile means shorter spokes, making my 29 wheel stiffer. Overall they should be lighter, wider, stiffer, and tougher, than the DT ex471 they replace. Or so I hope!


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

bikerfisher11 said:


> @mjw - Thanks! I will very likely take you up on the offer to come see them in person when you're done. I'm in Scarborough but would happily make the trip to the west side.
> Much appreciated.


I'll keep you posted.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

06HokieMTB said:


> I'm thinking most of these guys are selling the same stuff or, rather, are re-selling the same stuff. Their rim profiles and product lineups all look almost identical.


Definitely the truth in a lot of cases, yes. Some profiles seem to get sold by numerous re-sellers. But I'm fairly certain even if the mold and profile are the same, pending the factory, the composition and quality of materials can actually vary.

The mold used for the Nextie and for BTLOS rims I bought are definitely identical, but Nextie cost 40% more. The layup is different however, as is the split of t800/t700 which changes cost. This might all be for naught, or maybe there is some performance advantage one way or the other, but I can't say.

What I can say is, the customer service rep ran around the factory taking pictures of anything I requested. I have pics of open boxes of t700 and t800 Toray CF. I know the spec of the resin they use, and I have pictures with factory in the background, with workers manning the machines in production rooms. They weren't staged, just background noise in pictures of rim samples and so on. So, I can tell you with confidence this is actually a manufacturer - not just a reseller who's adding margin. And I assume this is why they can offer the same rim, or nearly the same rim, for 40% less. Hopefully I am correct!

Interestingly, they also offer you the opportunity to design and create your own mold, and thus your own branded rim - something you'll likely not find anywhere but a factory:

"With the principle of reasonable prices, efficient production time, service after the sale, we also offer OEM manufacturing for that special customer who wants to invest in their own product line. We help with product engineering and mold design, and the customer pays for the mold. If you are interested in any of our products or would like to discuss a custom order, please do not hesitate to contact us by email [email protected]. We are looking forward to forming successful business relationships with new clients around the world in the near future."


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Looks like they are out of Xiamen. The vast majority of carbon rims that come out of China comes from Xiamen. It seems pretty easy to set up an office there and have your pick of manufacturers for your new wheel company.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

mjw said:


> I would however, prefer some options with thicker rim bead walls. They are calling some rims with 3mm sidewalls (the burliest they seem to have), downhill and freeride rims, which is a bit of a joke when other sellers offer DH/FR rims with 4.5mm sidewalls, and trail/enduro rims with 3.5mm sidewalls.


I wouldn't put too much stock in the label, though that's a pretty typical wall width. Knight's rims are all 2.5mm, Nox is 3mm, and Ibis is 3mm. Atomik goes up to 3.5mm on their "AM" rims. DH use, to me, demands a rim liner regardless of the width. I'd sooner choose 2.5mm with Huck Norris (or whatever) than 4mm without.

https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/bm29s-36?filter=2,14

That's a nice rim. It's about 50g heavier than I'd expect for a partial T800 layup at that spec. Whether that matters in the context of 1000g tires is debatable. My own wheels are 29i and 39i on 142 and Lefty spacing respectively.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> I wouldn't put too much stock in the label, though that's a pretty typical wall width. Knight's rims are all 2.5mm, Nox is 3mm, and Ibis is 3mm. Atomik goes up to 3.5mm on their "AM" rims. DH use, to me, demands a rim liner regardless of the width. I'd sooner choose 2.5mm with Huck Norris (or whatever) than 4mm without.
> 
> https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/bm29s-36?filter=2,14
> 
> That's a nice rim. It's about 50g heavier than I'd expect for a partial T800 layup at that spec. Whether that matters in the context of 1000g tires is debatable. My own wheels are 29i and 39i on 142 and Lefty spacing respectively.


Yeah, I'd agree with you that just about any carbon rim could use a liner, or the wall protection as Enve now does for more extreme use.

Nobl is usually my point of reference, being Canadian.

Nobl also uses 3.5mm walls on their harder riding rims, 3.0mm on their mid-weight mid-wides, and 2.5mm on their lighter riding skinny i23 rims.

Weight is not too bad, imho. Nolb's tr36 has a slimmer build and less depth, and sits ar 440g. BTLOS is 470g, with a build more akin to the Nobl TR38 (650b rim that weights 490g). A tad heavy - maybe. I'd argue not too bad. But, compare the cost. For the sake of 30-50g per rim, are you willing to pony up the extra $230 USD per rim?

BTLOS: $170 (144.50 now with xmas sale)
Nextie: $240 (205.00 now with xmas sale)
Nobl: $400

Heck. That's $255.50 savings per rim during xmas. If the only difference is weight between BTLOS, or even Nextie, and domestic rims, I'll keep my $511 USD, and buy some primo tires with part of it!

Please know, I am not saying they are the BEST rims in the world. they have the potential to be pretty great I think. But the price might just be damn near the best for the spec. This means they might well be one of the best values out there right now...that is of course my opinion, it is untested. My fingered are crossed.

For me...riding DT EX471, I'm shaving weight and adding width, so it's all good =)


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

My EIE 29i rim came in at 395g. It's paired with a 2.4ish tire at just over 20 PSI. I'm usually around 180 kitted up, riding occasionally rocky XC terrain as fast as possible. I do occasionally bottom it, though to no apparent consequence. Haven't found a reason to opt for a heavier rim yet. I'm sure I'd feel differently in parts of the country with more gnar, but then, I'd also probably just equip the same rim with a liner.

So far, the widest ultralight options are 24i. Wouldn't surprise me to see a 360g 29i rim sometime next year though. If I had infinite money, I'd throw it at these:

FSE 35AM MTB 29er Tubeless Hookless DT Swiss 240 Boost Carbon Fiber Wheelset - FSE.bike

Not sure to make of the quoted widths, but I'll bet they've got the highest strength to weight of anything out there.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> My EIE 29i rim came in at 395g. It's paired with a 2.4ish tire at just over 20 PSI. I'm usually around 180 kitted up, riding occasionally rocky XC terrain as fast as possible. I do occasionally bottom it, though to no apparent consequence. Haven't found a reason to opt for a heavier rim yet. I'm sure I'd feel differently in parts of the country with more gnar, but then, I'd also probably just equip the same rim with a liner.
> 
> So far, the widest ultralight options are 24i. Wouldn't surprise me to see a 360g 29i rim sometime next year though. If I had infinite money, I'd throw it at these:
> 
> ...


I tend to take my bikes to lift access DH parks, and do a lot of travel around the east coast where there is more root and rock than soil. Throw in some good sized drops and jumps, perfect. So, I take come comfort in a burly rim 

Those rims you posted - those are really nice. Sounds like high tech carbon!

As for the width, I don't mind them. 25mm works well - still plenty Enduro and DH racers on 25mm rims - the ex471 being extremely popular with 25mm inner. I have 2 sets in use . 5mm rim walls...burly!

Super light would be nice, but super light isn't my main concern. But certainly a strong and wide i30mm-ish rim, sub 400g, would be attractive. Especially if it were a reasonable price.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

My BTLOS rims have officially gone to production, and my Nexties have shipped.

Lily from BTLOS send me the mock-up for my decals. I went with a colored B, and stealth for TLOS. I'm not usually all that keen on these manufacturer names and logos - I can never relate to them really...perhaps I'm a snob. But, I actually think this looks simple and kind of cool!

These will end up on my Black Canfield Riot, with Green DVO fork, and a few other green accents. They will be laced to DT Swiss 240' (green decals), via sapim d-light spokes. They should look pretty slick I think.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Got my Nextie rims.

Initial impressions:

On the Premium 29 rims - finish work isn't bad. However, Nextie says on their site that they will be within 0.15mm flatness/roundness. The card attached clearly shows that the rims are outside the guaranteed QC variance. I think that's pretty poor form!

The Asym 27.5 rims are horribly build finished. Very very VERY poorly done. The sidewalls were not build with enough resin and have already started to delaminate - you can stick your finger nail in-between the layers. Design is also pretty terrible - spoke holes on the tire side are centered while the spoke hols on the hub side are asymmetric, so they barely line up. It would be impossible to use a proper nipple driver/nipple wrench to build these - so much for the expensive squorx nips I bought. But, I won't use them anyways because the sidewalls look terrible.

So far, not impressed with Nextie. Definitely not worth the price premium. Not likely I'd evey buy a set to lace and resell to one of my own customers.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

That's unfortunate. Post photos and Nextie's response?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> That's unfortunate. Post photos and Nextie's response?


I will for sure, as soon as I hear back from them.

Meanwhile, the joke of the day. Check out the sidewall seperation, and they actually put a QC Pass sticker right next to it!!!! The whole rim lip looks like this. 1-2mm deep seperation in sections.

Nextie QC Pass:


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

I thought BTLOS is another person that lost their bitcoin


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

mjw said:


> Check out the sidewall seperation, and they actually put a QC Pass sticker right next to it!!!!


What a mess. Nextie has a lot of positive feedback, but that'd be enough for me to write off the whole brand. Maybe QC was phoning it in, or maybe they don't actually do QC. Either way, there's a significant defect in the validation process.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> What a mess. Nextie has a lot of positive feedback, but that'd be enough for me to write off the whole brand. Maybe QC was phoning it in, or maybe they don't actually do QC. Either way, there's a significant defect in the validation process.


Yep! Exactly how I feel. Both rims have one wall that is okay, and one that is delaminating all the way around, with one being a little worse than the other, while neither is at all acceptable.

And they aren't quick to reply either. I've send a couple of email now with additional pictures - we'll see how they recover. Hopefully Nextie can get a couple of good rims out to me with proper resin coating, no delamination, and proper spoke hole drilling so I can actually lace the wheel properly with a squorx wrench.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

alexdi said:


> What a mess. Nextie has a lot of positive feedback, but that'd be enough for me to write off the whole brand. Maybe QC was phoning it in, or maybe they don't actually do QC. Either way, there's a significant defect in the validation process.


Nextie is back from holidays. They have been very apologetic. They are lining up a new set for me tomorrow, and have refunded me a small amount as a token apology. I'm pretty happy with the response! Good guys, Brian and Max.

Sounds like they were bad samples they had lying around and did not mean to sell/ship them. The next set should be factory fresh.

Should arrive with proper resin job and spoke holes that line up properly. I hope =)

On another note, my BTLOS rims should arrive in the next week or so hopefully. Looking forward to comparing them!


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

mjw said:


> Sounds like they were bad samples they had lying around and did not mean to sell/ship them. The next set should be factory fresh.


You might ask them how they're ensuring it won't happen again. Most defects in carbon manufacture are not obvious. That an obvious defect would get through isn't encouraging for the ones that take more QC rigor to spot.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

alexdi said:


> You might ask them how they're ensuring it won't happen again. Most defects in carbon manufacture are not obvious. That an obvious defect would get through isn't encouraging for the ones that take more QC rigor to spot.


Well said. Also their explanation seems irrelevant to the case (if it is more credible than the QC sticker). Hopefully OP will be luckier this time.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

alexdi said:


> https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/bm29s-36?filter=2,14
> 
> That's a nice rim. It's about 50g heavier than I'd expect for a partial T800 layup at that spec. Whether that matters in the context of 1000g tires is debatable.


Looking at their website they mention using PMI foam in their production, I wonder if this may account for the extra weight? Has anyone had their hands/eyes on one of these rims yet?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Wow, Ive built up quite a few nextie and LB wheelsets between friends and family, and Ive never seen anything even close to that delamination. The biggest defect Ive seen so far was visible seams on a pair of promotional/blowout pricing rims. Otherwise they've all been perfect. I hope they make it right for you.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Still waiting on replacement rims from Nextie.

My BTLOS arrived today. They fit and finish is perfect. At least as good as the same profile Nextie Premium rims. 

They two are virtually identical. The BTLOS rims are perfect, and blemish free, and were much cheaper.


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## consa (Dec 16, 2017)

Did anyone buy BTLOS CX Gravel-BGU30-29 rims?
The standard version of the price seems very good!
https://btlos.com/road-bike/700c-29...er-tubeless-compatible-gravel-cyclocross-rims


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

alexdi said:


> You might ask them how they're ensuring it won't happen again. Most defects in carbon manufacture are not obvious...


That goes for aaaaaaall of them rim maker.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

cadoretteboat said:


> That goes for aaaaaaall of them rim maker.


I knew what that video was going to be before I opened it. His videos are sometimes slightly overwrought but they show how much hype there is in the world of carbon.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

*Medium Term Review*

I just wanted to update this thread with a bit of an informal review of these rims.

The 36mm Premium rims - I have since had 4 sets of these come across my bench - One for personal use, and three for other people including one 250lb bruiser on a short travel rig.

Personal - I have been riding mine on a Canfield Riot now for the past month. I am extremely satisfied with how the build up - quickly and problem free, largely due to being made very round and flat right out of the mold. Weight was lower than published - 466g vs 480g stated on their website. Nipple bed thickness is very consistent and internal wrinkles/inconsistencies are nearly nil, on par with most high end rim makers. Laced 29er, 2x, 32H - these wheels are stiff - partly due to the tall 30mm depth, partly due to the thicker rim walls. I have been hammering them pretty good with psi of 24F/26R, and they haven't flinched. Given the cost, heck even ignoring cost, I am thus far very impressed.

I am even more impressed with the fact that BTLOS have me the thumbs up to put these under a rider who is 250lbs. I don't recall what these rims are rated for, but I do recall my rider was under the limit by a safe margin. He's been thrashing them pretty hard for the last two months plus, and the wheel are still straight as a whip, zero sign of stress, and he is ecstatic with the ride feel these give when wrapped with high volume bonty tires.


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## greginaz (Oct 14, 2008)

Any recent updates with the BTLOS rims? Still working well?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

greginaz said:


> Any recent updates with the BTLOS rims? Still working well?


I've now purchased a number of sets of carbon rims from Factories and resellers in China. BTLOS remain at the top for me.

I am still flogging a set on my own Canfield - I run sensible air pressure, but I usually hit all the A lines and larger features and they don't flinch. They have stood up very well against rock strikes and misguided landings. And, they are as true now as the day I laced them up, which is pretty incredible. Same can be said for about 6 other people I laced them for and am still in contact with, including the guy who owns the Rocky above who's over 270lbs all kitted up. This guy actually destroyed a DT 350 on the set I laced him - tore the rotor right out of the hub, but the hoop was still perfectly true after the accident.

From a builders standpoint, the ten or so sets that have come across my bench have all been very flat and round - shaped perfectly. Absolutely no blemishes in any of them - they are well made. Last few have been gloss finish, which really looks quite nice as the UD carbon detail is totally well done. I stay away from anything that comes painted, and even matte finish can hide imperfections, but gloss hides nothing. Nipple holes are appropriately sized and spoke drilling angle is spot on. They even go do far as to sticker the rim to indicate which direction they are drilled so you can't mess it up. They build up easily, and they don't deform at higher tensions (120-130 kgf) like I have seen some rims do (Light Bicycle being one).

Honestly, I cannot say enough good things about them.

Lily, who is the point person for all direct to consumer sales, is friendly, quite smart, her English is perfect so I never find there is any fall down in communication, and she will bend over backwards to help you.

I also know that their factory poached an engineer from one of the bigger bike companies, and they are doing things right in terms of engineering, testing, and QC, all in house, as far as I can tell. They also analyze competitor rims to benchmark their own performance, and from what I can squeeze out of them, their rims stand up well against the bigger more well known brands. And they do produce for some bigger more well known brands as far as I know also, but they are very tight lipped over who they produce for, and what test results are - I suspect because of contract obligations, and because that's the classy/respectful thing to do.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

Great to hear all the positive reviews for BTLOS, but I can't find any rims that match the lighter weights of those from Nextie (their ultralights, which use T1000):

https://www.nextie.net/ultralight-mountain-clincher-34mm-NXT29UL34

or these from eie carbon:

super light 29er 34mm wide MTB hookless tubeless compatible carbon rims

or these from Carbonfan...

https://www.carbonfan.com/t800-tube...kless-rims-dc-series-width27mm-28mm-33mm-35mm

I'm looking for i25-i30 (I think 27-28mm would be ideal) that are at *most* 360g for i30, and less than that for narrower rims. Am I missing something from BTLOS???


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

anyone?


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## Tony (Jan 20, 2004)

I have some heavy wheels on order from them. The 29er i29 with Premium T700/T800 "DH" build. I will post pictures and weights once they are here. That is if they ever come (customs problem the first time they shipped.)

BTLOS does do custom orders and they are pretty friendly, so I'd email them if you want to ask specific questions about getting a super light rim. Although honestly at this moment, I am getting impatient and can't give a good review until the wheels are here.


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## XterraMike (Jul 12, 2012)

Has anybody tried the i30 rims yet? They are 35mm outer and 30mm ID at 25mm deep so a pretty popular shape and size. Just not asym which seems be the all the rage these days. Thinking about ordering some of these.


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## Tony (Jan 20, 2004)

Got my wm-i29 DH Premium wheels a month-ish ago. They are still dead straight after 3 harsh days in Moab and several hard days in Denver front range -- I tend to be hard on wheels so them being true after this is actually a very good thing.

wm-i29 "Premium" Carbon / DH Layup 29er
32 Sapim X-Ray Spokes
DT 240s Boost / 36 point ratchet / XD Driver
848g F / 950g R

The wheels are extremely stiff torsionally and result in improved precision and easier wheel placement in rock gardens and low-speed tech.

Also, the DHR/DHR tires inflated ridiculously easily tubeless with a hand pump. The easiest tubeless mount ever for me. Prior to these I'd been using 2014 Enve 'AM' rims and those were terrible mounting tires tubeless.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

XterraMike said:


> Has anybody tried the i30 rims yet? They are 35mm outer and 30mm ID at 25mm deep so a pretty popular shape and size. Just not asym which seems be the all the rage these days. Thinking about ordering some of these.


I talked with BTLOS a couple weeks ago, inquiring about this rim vs the i29 rim. Based on my weight (200 pounds) and riding style/terrain (rocky terrain ridden aggressively but minimal drops) they recommended the i29. I was personally fine with this - much more interested in a durable wheelset then saving grams. I would recommend contacting them and getting their recommendations. Amy was very responsive.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Tony said:


> Got my wm-i29 DH Premium wheels a month-ish ago. They are still dead straight after 3 harsh days in Moab and several hard days in Denver front range.


Nice - I have a set of these rims in the AM version coming in the next couple of weeks. Looking forward to getting them!


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Just got my WM-i29 wheelset from BTLOS yesterday. They look fantastic - I went with the black BTLOS decals and I really like the stealth look. The beads look perfect, and the finish on the rims is beautiful.





















These wheels are definitely on the burlier side. I chose the M-i29 rims, AM Version / Premium series. I requested 32H rims; with DT Swiss 240s hubs and Sapim Laser spokes, they weigh in at 1800g. I am fine with that - I was looking for durability with these wheels more than weight savings. BTLOS definitely has lighter rims, so you should be able to hit whatever target weight you are looking for.

For people interested in the process, I ordered the wheels on Oct 18, and was notified that the wheels were built on Nov. 12. There was a 3-4 day delay due to not having the spokes available when the rims were finished. The wheels shipped on Nov 12, and the first attempted delivery was Nov 20.

Communication with Amy at BTLOS has been impressive. All questions were answered quickly (given the time differences between the US East Coast and China), and I was particularly impressed when Amy e-mailed me after the first delivery attempt was unsuccessful to make sure that I knew to schedule a follow-up delivery. I don't think I have ever had a company following the tracking of a package they sent to me before.

BTLOS included rim tape and valve stems with the wheels as well. When I mentioned it to Amy, she indicated they did it because I had placed my order just before the Black Friday specials. While it would have been nice to get the sale price, I certainly do appreciate the tape and valve stems.

Mounting tires was a little more difficult on these wheels than on the stock rims that came with my Hightower due to the BTLOS rims have a slightly larger outer diameter. It wasn't a problem - as long as I made sure the bead of the tire was sitting in the center channel, the tires could be mounted by hand without any tools. I am personally counting this as a good thing - I'll take a snug fit. I did need an air compressor to inflate a 2.35 Nobby Nic and 2.4 WT Rekon, but this was true of mounting the Rekon on the stock HT rims as well.

The only thing that was less than perfect is that the hole for the valve stem looks is drilled a little small - the valve stems they provided do not sit very far into the hole and as a result, the amount of stem extending past the rim is less than normal; it isn't quite enough for the connector on a NoTubes syringe to thread onto it unless I move the threaded piece holding the valve core off first. I was able to work around it, and in the future I'll try some different valve stems to see if they fit differently. I passed this on to Amy, and she has already shared it with their engineer to improve the hole size for future rims.

Overall, I am very pleased with my experience with BTLOS. Obviously, the real test will be using the wheels and seeing how they hold up to normal usage. Fingers crossed, but at this point I have no reason to be concerned. At this point I'd definitely recommend BTLOS to anybody looking to order carbon wheels directly from China.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

1800g with DT 240s, Sapim Lasers and the Premium (T800) rims? Those must be some burly rims indeed.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

I kind of ignored this thread until now, but BTLOS deserves serious consideration.

Look at how well they do their marketing, I've never seen a Chinese factory website done this nicely!

Look at their prices, they clearly have an edge on every one of their resellers! This has to be a matter of time before their resellers move on to a different supplier simply out of frustration.

This thread has focused on heavy rims, but according to their website they do stock a lineup of ultralight XC rims, starting at 280g.

I can't believe I've ordered from a Xiamen-based reseller all this while trying to scrounge for the lowest price they could do, and here is the manufacturer right in front of me beating every one of their promotional prices! (well, not on wheelsets).


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

FWIW, if anyone is ordering from BTLOS today, I "spun" their "prize wheel" and got a $35 off coupon, to be used on a WHEEL SET ONLY.

As I will not be using it, the code is: ca5bf82810876c0.

Enjoy.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

sissypants said:


> I kind of ignored this thread until now, but BTLOS deserves serious consideration.
> 
> Look at how well they do their marketing, I've never seen a Chinese factory website done this nicely!
> 
> ...


I think Carbonfan gives them a run for their money on both website design and prices.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Schulze said:


> I think Carbonfan gives them a run for their money on both website design and prices.


But Carbonfan doesn't seem to have sales (unless you get one of their special deals for reviewing your purchase). BTLOS seems to give 15% off a few times a year, which handily beats the competition. I do wish they sold a 25mm+ IW rim that weighed under 350g like most of their competitors do, but on price they're about the best right now.


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## XterraMike (Jul 12, 2012)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Just got my WM-i29 wheelset from BTLOS yesterday. They look fantastic - I went with the black BTLOS decals and I really like the stealth look. The beads look perfect, and the finish on the rims is beautiful.
> 
> View attachment 1225827
> View attachment 1225828
> ...


I ordered that same wheelset but with D-Light spokes and she indicated a weight of 1683 grams. So not too happy to hear 1800 with lasers. Of course that is just 3.5 ounces and probably 1/3 of a water bottle. I imagine those will be pretty bomb proof which is the most important thing. Thanks for sharing pix. Mine shipped today


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

Schulze said:


> I think Carbonfan gives them a run for their money on both website design and prices.


I guess when you're a reseller that has to compete with the factory there's no option but to outperform them on customer service and website design.

BTLOS has the edge on Carbonfan in terms of prices. Carbonfan also has no tiered pricing structure, BTLOS is open for negotiation.


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## XterraMike (Jul 12, 2012)

Got my i29 wheelset in this week. They are pretty nice. With 240 hubs and D-light spokes they are 1702 grams. Mounting NN 2.35 rubber was a real pain but they sealed up well. After one ride, i am pretty happy with them. Very stiff laterally and those hubs with 54T upgrade are awesome


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

XterraMike said:


> Got my i29 wheelset in this week. They are pretty nice. With 240 hubs and D-light spokes they are 1702 grams. Mounting NN 2.35 rubber was a real pain but they sealed up well. After one ride, i am pretty happy with them. Very stiff laterally and those hubs with 54T upgrade are awesome


Nice! My Nobby Nics were difficult as well, but went on without too much elbow grease. Glad that BTLOS seems to have worked out for both of us.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss ratchets.


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## Chicane32 (Jul 12, 2015)

AFWY said:


> Can anyone confirm what ratchets BTLOS is using for the DT Swiss rear hub? I emailed them and they are saying the 36T and 54T they use is genuine DT Swiss ratchets.


I'm not sure what you are looking at, or where the confusion is, but they are no different then all the other Chinese and North American wheel companies. 18t sais standard and no charge and 36t,54t lists the extra costs.

You tell them what you want and they will quote you a price. The 18t will obviousily
cost you less $.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

There are two types of star ratchets. Genuine DT Swiss ratchets that are proven to last longer and a chinese knock off ratchet that are cheaper and don't last as long.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

AFWY said:


> There are two types of star ratchets. Genuine DT Swiss ratchets that are proven to last longer and a chinese knock off ratchet that are cheaper and don't last as long.


BTLOS uses genuine parts. They aren't trying to hoodwink you.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

Thank you. Going to order a wheelset asap from them for my Smuggler..


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Has anyone run these on a carbon hard tail? Looking at the M-i30 for my Niner one9 but I'm concerned about getting my teeth rattled out. The frame is quite stiff and known for it's non-compliant nature. Currently the bike has a set of American Classic wheels with 22mm inner width rims (waaay to narrow for me) and I thought about building some of these carbon rims to a pair of DT hubs I already have.

I usually use stan's rims and thought about building a set of flow's for this bike but I'd like to keep the weight down since I'm going to try my hand at racing single speed for the WV series this year. I like to run at least 2.3 tires but not much wider than 2.6

Thanks for any info!


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

terrible said:


> Has anyone run these on a carbon hard tail? Looking at the M-i30 for my Niner one9 but I'm concerned about getting my teeth rattled out. The frame is quite stiff and known for it's non-compliant nature. Currently the bike has a set of American Classic wheels with 22mm inner width rims (waaay to narrow for me) and I thought about building some of these carbon rims to a pair of DT hubs I already have.
> 
> I usually use stan's rims and thought about building a set of flow's for this bike but I'd like to keep the weight down since I'm going to try my hand at racing single speed for the WV series this year. I like to run at least 2.3 tires but not much wider than 2.6
> 
> Thanks for any info!


I have M-i29 premium built with 32 CX-Ray spokes, non-boost. Personally, I find them very stiff, maybe too stiff. I would not buy this for a HT. But I don't have experience with other carbon wheels, other than demos. They weigh a few grams more than the spec, I think same as Reserves. 
Cannot tell anything wrong about the quality of components or build. All seems to be top-notch.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

KVV said:


> I have M-i29 premium built with 32 CX-Ray spokes, non-boost. Personally, I find them very stiff, maybe too stiff. I would not buy this for a HT. But I don't have experience with other carbon wheels, other than demos. They weigh a few grams more than the spec, I think same as Reserves.
> Cannot tell anything wrong about the quality of components or build. All seems to be top-notch.


I have the M-i29s as well - I'm not complaining about the stiffness since they are on a 5" travel bike. However, they are a burly rim for sure.

A couple of BTLOS's asymmetric rims are lighter: if lighter = more compliance, then it could be a good way to go.

For example, the M-i29A rim is an asymmetric i29 rim that weighs 390g for the Premium AM 29er rim, instead of the listed 475g for the M-i29 rim.

Interestingly, the M-i34A rim is also relatively light - 420g for the Premium AM 29er rim. I don't know if the increased rim width (34mm internal if that isn't obvious) would also make the rim stiffer though.

Sorry I can't answer your question directly, but maybe this will kick off a conversation that is helpful to you.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

KVV said:


> I have M-i29 premium built with 32 CX-Ray spokes, non-boost. Personally, I find them very stiff, maybe too stiff. I would not buy this for a HT. But I don't have experience with other carbon wheels, other than demos. They weigh a few grams more than the spec, I think same as Reserves.
> Cannot tell anything wrong about the quality of components or build. All seems to be top-notch.


I'm really happy with my BTLOS wheels as well. My only complaint is that the are getting very visible scratches from the local rocky trails. Amy at BTLOS said they are using dark car polish at BTLOS to keep the rims looking nice. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure I will at some point...


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

.


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## Twiggy (Feb 18, 2004)

Quick note - I ordered a set of the i24 Rims laced to DT Swiss 240 Centerlock Hubs, 32/32...they arrived yesterday and first impressions are very positive. Quality looks great, and a total weight of 1430g for the set is pretty descent! 
Will post pics and a review once I've got them mounted up!


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Those that bought wheels from the US. Have you been hit with an import duty tax?


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## Twiggy (Feb 18, 2004)

stom_m3 said:


> Those that bought wheels from the US. Have you been hit with an import duty tax?


I'm in Canada, but I should point out that BTLOS marked the valuation on the customs forms...ummm favorably


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Twiggy said:


> I'm in Canada, but I should point out that BTLOS marked the valuation on the customs forms...ummm favorably


I'm in the US and had a similar experience.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

I just received 2 btlos 27.5 x 65 fat rims. 5 days to get here. No import duty. And the quality is as good as any high priced rims I have ever purchased. I will use them from now on. Amy was a pleasure to deal with.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

Just received a special order of two front 29er wheels:
WM-i30 Premium AM rims, DT 350 boost hubs, Sapim D-Light spokes, center lock

measured weights: 720g (28°) and 726g (32°)

30 days from order to doorstep here in California, Amy kept us updated.

They look nice, as true as I can build on my Park stand. Two spare spokes with nipples were included, a small spec tag on each:









hope they prove to be as trouble free as our previous LB wheels :thumbsup:


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I'm looking at the M-i29A, Premium, AM rim... I'm not very knowledgable about wheelsets so take it easy on me 

I'm about 240lbs kiitted up (an athletic 240...not cycling athletic, but, like, good at corn hole athletic lol) and doing xc/trail with 2.35 tires. I wouldn't run below 2.25 or above 2.4 I don't think. 

Should I be worried about a rough ride? If so, could I get away with 28h? I can't imagine with my weight that it would be an issue but saw a few people comment about it so I thought I'd ask.

Any reason to avoid the asym version?

Thinking about doing staightpull 240s or Tune; thoughts?


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> I'm looking at the M-i29A, Premium, AM rim... I'm not very knowledgable about wheelsets so take it easy on me
> 
> I'm about 240lbs kiitted up (an athletic 240...not cycling athletic, but, like, good at corn hole athletic lol) and doing xc/trail with 2.35 tires. I wouldn't run below 2.25 or above 2.4 I don't think.
> 
> ...


I would recommend that you talk to Amy at BTLOS. I weigh 205 and they guided me to the non asymmetric i29 rim. It's a beefy rim that is going to hold up to bigger riders. Granted, I'm sure they will sell you the lighter rim, but I personally value durability over weight.

As far as hubs - I really don't think you can go wrong with the DT Swiss 240s, although I would do the star ratchet upgrade. For spokes, I went with traditional J-bend spokes - 32 of 'em. I haven't worked on wheels with direct pull spokes, but the J-bend spokes are pretty easy to replace if necessary. My perception is that J-bend spokes are also easier to get, but that is an uninformed opinion.

I'd really reach out to BTLOS and get their opinion. I do think they run on the conservative side, but they also have a reasonable warranty - particularly on their premium rims. Good luck and let us know what you decide. I've been very happy with my BTLOS wheels.


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

I just ordered a WM-I29A wheelset. Took advantage of the 8 percent discount. I went DT swiss 240 rear with 54t ratchet and DT swiss 350 front to save some money. Very excited to get this wheelset!


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

AFWY said:


> I just ordered a WM-I29A wheelset. Took advantage of the 8 percent discount. I went DT swiss 240 rear with 54t ratchet and DT swiss 350 front to save some money. Very excited to get this wheelset!


How did you get the 8% discount?


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## AFWY (Dec 7, 2010)

It is on the front page of there website. 2/14 is the last day for the discount.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

Jyfly said:


> How did you get the 8% discount?


Coupon Code CNY08 for the Chinese New Year. Valid until 2/14.

One of the nice things about BTLOS is the frequent discounts they offer. 8% seems to happen several times a year. Up to 15% and some "bonus discounts" (free ratchet upgrades, etc.) happen more rarely, but were around last BF.


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

Got it, thanks!


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## RSparkVB4 (Sep 26, 2018)

Going to pull the trigger on these today based on everyone's reviews and emails with Amy. Why are some going with the non asym? I thought Asym were lighter and stronger? Planning to go Asym i30 for the front and i29 for the rear for my 29er full suspension. I want 2.5 to 2.6 up front but I can only run 2.4 max out back so i29 would be stronger and i dont really need the volume since only running 2.4s out back. Thoughts on this? Why have some ordered asym for non and what about EN to AM? thanks! 
240 lbs geared up, 6'6. riding a XL foxy 160f/150 coil rear. maybe 5 ft drops and like to plow but not alot of rocks here.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

RSparkVB4 said:


> Going to pull the trigger on these today based on everyone's reviews and emails with Amy. Why are some going with the non asym? I thought Asym were lighter and stronger? Planning to go Asym i30 for the front and i29 for the rear for my 29er full suspension. I want 2.5 to 2.6 up front but I can only run 2.4 max out back so i29 would be stronger and i dont really need the volume since only running 2.4s out back. Thoughts on this? Why have some ordered asym for non and what about EN to AM? thanks!
> 240 lbs geared up, 6'6. riding a XL foxy 160f/150 coil rear. maybe 5 ft drops and like to plow but not alot of rocks here.


I went with the i29 rim because that was what they recommended. While I want lighter wheels, I care more about durability. I asked for their opinion and went with what they recommended.


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

Have you guys received your wheels? I ordered a set on Feb 13th. As far as I can see, the shipping company doesn't have them or they haven't moved from China. I have a blown up Novatec hub on my Hightower. No riding for me until the wheels show up. These don't look like the way to go if you're in a hurry.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Jyfly said:


> Have you guys received your wheels? I ordered a set on Feb 13th. As far as I can see, the shipping company doesn't have them or they haven't moved from China. I have a blown up Novatec hub on my Hightower. No riding for me until the wheels show up. These don't look like the way to go if you're in a hurry.


I have a set ordered as well. I was told 15-20 working days for production. That's a month basically.

Have you written them to ask if they have shipped? The are very responsive.


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

I have asked if they have shipped. I was told they shipped on March 6th. Shipping was said to be 5-10 days. Tracking is showing origin post is preparing shipment since the 12th.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Jyfly said:


> I have asked if they have shipped. I was told they shipped on March 6th. Shipping was said to be 5-10 days. Tracking is showing origin post is preparing shipment since the 12th.


I know it took me a couple days for the shipment to show on 17track, but I definitely would have expected to be in the US and headed your way by now. I would follow up with BTLOS and see if they can hunt down additional info on the shipment for you. They were very upfront with me when they missed the original shipment date, but when they said the wheels had shipped, they had definitely shipped.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm going to order an i30 wheelset. I'm undecided on asymmetrical or symmetrical. I'm pretty light (160lbs) and don't hit anything too big. I mostly want the new wheelset for better tire profile. I'm currently on i23's and on 2.4 tires.
I'm wondering if a 28h asymmetrical is roughly the same strength as a 32h symmetrical.
These will be on boost.
Any other considerations?


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## Onthefly21 (Feb 26, 2019)

I had ordered a set on feb 13th as well and was told they were gonna be shipped yesterday, so patiently waiting.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Just pulled the trigger on a set of WMi30A. Should be a huge upgrade from my i23 stock rims. These new wheels are probably way overbuilt for me but that's fine with me. 

As everyone has said, Amy is very responsive. Now the long wait.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

I don’t have enough tape left to wrap the set of rims that are on order so I need to buy new tape. I’ve always used Stans but thought I’d try something new. I ordered Kapton tape because I heard it sticks well to carbon rims. Has anyone else tried this tape with BTLOS rims? It’s 19mm so I will be doing two wraps edge to edge


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## Onthefly21 (Feb 26, 2019)

Not sure, but I’ll let you know when I eventually receive mine. Been waiting since I ordered them on February 13th.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Onthefly21 said:


> Not sure, but I'll let you know when I eventually receive mine. Been waiting since I ordered them on February 13th.


Which ones did you order? What does tracking info show?


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## Onthefly21 (Feb 26, 2019)

Shows from the tracking that it left the 25th so I’ll see how long it takes. I ordered the WM-i25a set.


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## Jyfly (Jan 30, 2019)

I ordered my i29a's on Feb 13th. I received them on March 22nd. The tracking info didn't change for awhile. Once they made it into US customs it was two days from there.


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## Onthefly21 (Feb 26, 2019)

Ok great thanks for the info! My wheels were prob on the back end of the orders so I guess I had to wait a bit longer


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Onthefly21 said:


> Ok great thanks for the info! My wheels were prob on the back end of the orders so I guess I had to wait a bit longer


Another data point for you- I ordered a set of i29A rims, not complete wheels, on March 8th, got the shipping notice on the 21st, and received them yesterday. Shipped to Florida.


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## Twiggy (Feb 18, 2004)

First Ride on my BTLOS wheels last night...I didn't realize how flexy my old Stans wheels were until I compared them to my BTLOS wheels!....they felt great!


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

This was my first overseas wheel purchase. So for others wondering about the timeline for delivery here is the complete breakdown.
Ordered 2019-03-19
2019-04-04 19:41 CHINA, Acceptance
2019-04-05 06:13 Xiamen, has left China Post Express Logistics Co., Ltd. Xiamen Mail Processing Center, sent to China Post Express Logistics Co., Ltd. Xiamen International Mail Processing Center
2019-04-05 07:38 Xiamen, arrive at China Post Express Logistics Co., Ltd. Xiamen International Mail Processing Center Processing Center
2019-04-05 08:56 CHINA, XIAMEN, Processed Through Facility
2019-04-05 08:56 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
2019-04-06 07:57 CHINA, XIAMEN EMS, Processed Through Facility
2019-04-06 08:34 Xiamen, leave Xiamen and send to the next destination
2019-04-06 08:42 Arrive at China Post Express Logistics Co., Ltd. Xiamen International Mail Exchange Station Processing center
2019-04-09 08:12 LOS ANGELES CA INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER, Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility
2019-04-09 11:24 United States, arrival processing center, from Xiamen, China
2019-04-09 11:24 ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS), Processed Through Facility
2019-04-09 11:24 Inbound Into Customs
2019-04-10 00:58 Inbound Out of Customs
2019-04-10 00:58 LOS ANGELES CA INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER, Departed USPS Regional Destination Facility
2019-04-10 08:03 LOS ANGELES, CA, Arrived at Post Office -> Your item arrived at the Post Office at 8:03 am on April 10, 2019 in LOS ANGELES, CA
2019-04-10 09:24 LOS ANGELES, CA, Sorting Complete
2019-04-10 09:34 LOS ANGELES, CA, Out for Delivery
2019-04-10 13:53 LOS ANGELES, CA, Delivered, -> Your item was delivered at 1:53 pm on April 10, 2019 in LOS ANGELES, CA. The item was signed for by


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## pschmatz (May 28, 2008)

*WM-i30A*

I can also report a successful transaction with BTLOS: I ordered 3/23 and the wheels arrived 4/12 (in PNW). Great communication from [email protected] I got the WM-i30A AM Premium layer, with Sapim D-Light and DT Swiss 350. 
Weight is 1750g for the set. Their stickers had it a at 1732g, but my scale may not be right...

Mounting tubeless is super easy done with a floor pump. And it actually held pressure through the night w/o an sealant at all. 
I only did a test ride, and it is pretty nice. Definitely stiffer, so I need to tune the suspension. The 350 are great (54T), super quiet.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

For anyone looking at Asymetric rims with internal widths of 30mm that are Enduro worthy, FYI, BTLOS has a new profile that isn't up on their website yet. I just received the very first set, and I think they will quickly become one of their more popular profiles for aggressive riding. Great width, 3mm offset, and a little more shallow than their existing i30 (closer to their i29) should leave it feeling a little more forgiving/compliant. Definitely worth asking about if you are buying and you don't see this profile posted to their site yet.

I ordered them in 27.5 with EN build and they weigh in at 475g each on my scale. I am very impressed how clean they are constructed, as always. I have totally moved over to buying all my rims in gloss finish from BTLOS because generally they have few to no flaws and look pretty stunning when you can see the carbon fiber shining through.


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## Dbllock55 (Sep 9, 2015)

For those who have ordered BTLOS wheels and spec'd out a DTSwiss hub for centerlock rotors.... did the lockrings required to lock the rotor on come with the wheelset? I have the lockring for the rear 12mm rotor as those are standard and come with all rotors but the front 15mm one is a special lockring which i dont have. Dont want to buy it if it comes with the wheelset. Let me know.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I got a pair of WM-i25A's last December with centerlock DT240s. No lockrings were included. The Shimano rotors I bought came with 10/12mm lockrings, but I needed to buy the larger 15/20mm size ($12 on Ebay) for the front 15x110 thru axle. I probably could have used one of the smaller rings in back with the 12x148 TA, but the lockrings came as a pair so I used a larger one back there too.


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## Dbllock55 (Sep 9, 2015)

Thank you, much appreciated!


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I don’t know if commercial packaging is the same as retail for DT Swiss but the 350 centerlock hub I just got came with a 15mm ta cL adapter. Maybe ask Btlos if they can include them


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## Dbllock55 (Sep 9, 2015)

Hey rsatark18,

Just curious were those shipping updates posted bulk when your rims showed up or were they periodically updated? My status has been stuck at processed thru facility for 6 days now.....


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Dbllock55 said:


> Hey rsatark18,
> 
> Just curious were those shipping updates posted bulk when your rims showed up or were they periodically updated? My status has been stuck at processed thru facility for 6 days now.....


No they were posted as they happened.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

Ride report: M-i30A 27.5 built with sapim race spokes and Bitex hubs. Approx 300 miles. Terrain: Everything from rugged Tahoe rock gardens and drops to flowy NW forest. No Moab yet.

Built round and true easily. Aired up tubeless easily with Minion DHF and both Schwalbe HD and Maxxis DHR. Satisfiying 'pop' when seating.

Pound through rock gardens well. I have heard many rocks pinging off the rims. Rims show a few minor scratches from rock strikes. No issues going off small hucks and jumps. I have not done anything over a 2-3 feet. I don't feel any flex when cornering hard although I am no expert here either. Wheels have needed NO truing or other maintenence yet.

Background: Rider of 10 yrs. About 190# geared up. Tahoe is home turf. Ride all yr round but not on my trail bike all year. Previously had Nextie carbon and a bunch of aluminum. Had a Nextie rim de-laminate.

Conclusion: Happy...so far.


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## SAIG (May 30, 2004)

Has anybody been in contact with them? My wheels are to be shipped soon but I can't get in contact with them.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

Last contact I had was a couple of days ago when my wheels shipped out.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

SAIG said:


> Has anybody been in contact with them? My wheels are to be shipped soon but I can't get in contact with them.


They may be slow to answer at times. But they are reliable.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Interesting thread and slick website for these guy? So reports are good? True to claimed weight? Durability? CS? Warranty?

Just browsing through here, looks like most people are doing enduro wheel builds. That will be the next project. But currently looking to build lightweight gravel/XC wheels. Any reports on those? Also how are they with custom requests? I'm want their wider XC rims, but laced to road/gravel spacing hubs.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

smoothmoose said:


> Interesting thread and slick website for these guy? So reports are good? True to claimed weight? Durability? CS? Warranty?
> 
> Just browsing through here, looks like most people are doing enduro wheel builds. That will be the next project. But currently looking to build lightweight gravel/XC wheels. Any reports on those? Also how are they with custom requests? I'm want their wider XC rims, but laced to road/gravel spacing hubs.


Site is btlos.com. I don't think I have ever seen a bad report from them, although people seem to prefer Light Bicycle or CarbonFan. They (BTLOS) also make XC wheels. Sice I only ordered the rims, don't know about custom builds. Probably nothing done with american parts.

You can contact them here at [email protected].


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## yagr68 (Aug 21, 2018)

My experiences with BTLOS have been good. It'll take awhile to get your rims/wheels and there is definitely a dark period of 1-2 weeks during shipment but that is to be expected coming from China. Communication is typically fast and informed.

First order was a i25a XC wheelset with DT350's. Rims were quality, hubs were genuine, and wheel was well-built with equal tensioned spokes. A year later and it's needed only 1 very minor truing and I've beaten them up on a lot of non XC terrain. 

Second order was i29a enduro rims only and they built up nicely with no complaints.

I'd use them again.


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## ltphoto (Sep 11, 2014)

Just got my set of i29A wheels with DT350. Weight was right at what was claimed when I ordered. 15 days from ordering to delivery. Haven't ridden yet due to injury two days before arrival, but everything looks good so far in setting them up. Looking forward to getting out on them in a few more days.


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## Dropout33 (Apr 9, 2007)

I just received my BTLOs wheel set. they are WM-I30 rims, 28 hole, DTSwiss 350 straight pull center lock hubs, with Sapim CX-ray spokes. 

Everything is perfect, no defects, of any kind. 

Front wheel is 758 grams
Rear wheel is 883 grams

Total weight is 1641

Total price to my door was under $800


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## XterraMike (Jul 12, 2012)

I have the i29 rims with DT 240 hubs and Sapim spokes. Managed to plow into a log on a ride last week at speed and although cracked a rib, the front wheel survived just fine. I got them back in December and still true as day i got them.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

I just ordered a wheel build on the i25 XC Extralights for a gravel wheelset. They tell me they are out of stock on the Sapim D-light straightpull spokes and offering the Pillars as an alternative. Any thoughts on the Pillar spokes? I don't really want to spend extra on the CX-Rays.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I got a set of i25As last year (on DT240s) and also couldn't get the D-Lights. I accepted their offer of Pillar 1420s and have had no issues with the wheels (but, to be fair, have only put a few hundred miles of XC / light trail use on them so far). In a perfect world I would have preferred Sapim just for familiarity and ease of replacement, but wouldn't hesitate to take the same deal again if offered.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Looks like I have option to go with either the Pillar XTRA 1420 or DT Competition Race. Which one should I go with? I think the Pillar is aero-bladed and slightly lighter, but DT is known quantity....


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## ltphoto (Sep 11, 2014)

I went with the Pillar on mine. I have about 400 miles on them so far and everything has been fine. Over 100 miles was down in Moab last week. Still perfectly true. These are i29A rims DT Swiss 350 hubs.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

Hello,
I can't see this rim on their website. 
Are they still available ?

thanks


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

choan said:


> Hello,
> I can't see this rim on their website.
> Are they still available ?
> 
> thanks


Which rim are you referring to?

I am assuming you mean the one I have posted?

Write them directly. Send that thumbnail and ask for it directly. In my opinion, it is their best hard riding rim.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

mjw said:


> Which rim are you referring to?
> 
> I am assuming you mean the one I have posted?
> 
> Write them directly. Send that thumbnail and ask for it directly. In my opinion, it is their best hard riding rim.





mjw said:


> Which rim are you referring to?
> 
> I am assuming you mean the one I have posted?
> 
> Write them directly. Send that thumbnail and ask for it directly. In my opinion, it is their best hard riding rim.


Oups I messed up my quote!
Yes I was referring to your post.

Its weird than 6 month later they don't have it listed no?

I like the measurements of this rim the best, I will ask them thanks.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I have purchased a set of premium DH wm-i34 rims for my bike a year ago. They laced up really easy, used dt swiss competition spokes with brass nips onto king hubs. They have been trouble free and the only damage are scratches from rocks and such. This pair has since been on my banshee rune and then onto my bronson v3. BTLOS showed amazing customer service when I needed help choosing the correct rim model for my riding and in lacing specs such as spoke tension. I run cushcore on them to have a stiffer tire sidewall, I cased countless amounts of jumps and a fair share of crashes and bails. These rims have been amazing all the way through.

I was so happy about my purchase that I have decided to order a wheelset for my Chameleon as well.
Ordered the 29er wm-i30A, with sapim d light spokes, brass nips, and dt 350 hubs. I cannot wait for these to arrive!


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Ordered a pair of wheels based on the good feedback here but they seem lost in transit for now. According to the tracking, they left China on Oct 30th but no update since. I contacted BTLOS about it. Will update here on how it gets resolved.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Kadath said:


> Ordered a pair of wheels based on the good feedback here but they seem lost in transit for now. According to the tracking, they left China on Oct 30th but no update since. I contacted BTLOS about it. Will update here on how it gets resolved.


That's only 2 weeks. They are coming from China, and going through customs no doubt, which the seller has zero control over. I've had packages delayed in customs for 1-2 weeks alone. I think you need to have a little more patience.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Yes but when the package is in customs, it usually shows in the tracking info, no? It would at least show that it arrived in the country in my experience. Anyway, of course I'm gonna wait some more, there's not much else I can do. I was just curious to see what BTLOS can do on their side and I'd also like to know what their policy is in case of a lost shipment. Fortunately I paid through Paypal, hopefully this provides some form of protection.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Kadath said:


> Yes but when the package is in customs, it usually shows in the tracking info, no? It would at least show that it arrived in the country in my experience. Anyway, of course I'm gonna wait some more, there's not much else I can do. I was just curious to see what BTLOS can do on their side and I'd also like to know what their policy is in case of a lost shipment. Fortunately I paid through Paypal, hopefully this provides some form of protection.


Not necessarily, no. Plenty of times, pending the shipping method, you lose visibility when the package crossed boarders. We get plenty of packages even from the US that aren't traceable once they leave the US, i.e. when they enter customs. It can be totally normal. I received a package last week from e13 where this was the case. And one from Transition maybe a week before where the same was the case.

A lot of shipments from over seas may also be delivered by a completely different courier than originally shipped with. Also very normal.

Like I said. Just be patient, they will arrive I'm sure.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

I recently purchased a set of 105mm single wall fat rims from btlos. Took a little while to get through customs.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

Outstanding answer from Amy:


> We are sorry to hear that. We double-checked with EMS. The parcel is currently in Germany, the next stop is Canada, and you will probably receive the parcel within a week.
> 
> All of our North American customers receive parcels in almost 7 to 10 days.
> EMS told me that the reason for the delay was due to the contraband on the flight, which caused delays in all packages on the flight. The parcel is currently being transferred to Canada in Germany. We have urged EMS to process the parcel as soon as possible.
> ...


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

senorbanana said:


> I have purchased a set of premium DH wm-i34 rims for my bike a year ago. They laced up really easy, used dt swiss competition spokes with brass nips onto king hubs. They have been trouble free and the only damage are scratches from rocks and such. This pair has since been on my banshee rune and then onto my bronson v3. BTLOS showed amazing customer service when I needed help choosing the correct rim model for my riding and in lacing specs such as spoke tension. I run cushcore on them to have a stiffer tire sidewall, I cased countless amounts of jumps and a fair share of crashes and bails. These rims have been amazing all the way through.
> 
> I was so happy about my purchase that I have decided to order a wheelset for my Chameleon as well.
> Ordered the 29er wm-i30A, with sapim d light spokes, brass nips, and dt 350 hubs. I cannot wait for these to arrive!


Checking back to see if you received your i30A wheels?


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Yep I got them a week and a half after shipment. Quite fast shipping. I chose the stealth color way in gloss letters on matte is laced to 350 hubs. They are perfect!


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

So finally got my wheels. Quite happy with them, they come in at 1552 g and the estimate IIRC on the website was 1550 g.
I had requested spare spokes so they threw 3 in for free.
I chose the 3K sating finish and I think it looks great.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Kadath said:


> So finally got my wheels. Quite happy with them, they come in at 1552 g and the estimate IIRC on the website was 1550 g.
> I had requested spare spokes so they threw 3 in for free.
> I chose the 3K sating finish and I think it looks great.


As expected! BTLOS is solid. Just a little patience needed for the shipping.

Beautiful wheels!


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

Just pulled the trigger yesterday on a set of i29A rims laced to DT 240 hubs with Sapim D-Lights for my SB150. Just over $800 to my door with BF discounts. I have a 54T ratchet in my current 350 hubs on the stock wheelset to transfer to these, so 240s were a logical choice. 

Should be around 400g dropped from my stock setup, looking forward to the improvement! Also looking at lighter tire combos to drop a bit more rotating weight overall.

Hoping they’ll be delivered before Xmas. Will post pics when I receive them- requested that they match decals to Yeti turquoise, we’ll see how close they get!



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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Has anyone ordered these wheels with J-bend over the straight pull spokes? They seem to recommend them for obvious reasons on their site, but straights are lighter and look better imo. They also have the Microspline driver option in both the 240, 350 and Hope hubs they carry. Looking at the i30A rim built up soon!


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Has anyone ordered these wheels with J-bend over the straight pull spokes? They seem to recommend them for obvious reasons on their site, but straights are lighter and look better imo. They also have the Microspline driver option in both the 240, 350 and Hope hubs they carry. Looking at the i30A rim built up soon!


My set is J-bend. I should receive them in the next day or so, I can update here.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I got my wheels about 12 days after payment, They look awesome and the dt swiss hubs roll great. Tubeless was sealed with a floor pump and quality is perfect!

m-i30a 350 hubs, jbend sapim dlight brass nipples


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

senorbanana said:


> I got my wheels about 12 days after payment, They look awesome and the dt swiss hubs roll great. Tubeless was sealed with a floor pump and quality is perfect!
> 
> m-i30a 350 hubs, jbend sapim dlight brass nipples


Nice- got mine configured similarly, just i29 asymmetric rims and DT 240 hubs.

Mine came a day earlier than expected, just shy of 3 weeks from order to delivery.


















Will install them this weekend, but carbon quality/finishing and build quality seem excellent at first glance.

Ride report to follow!

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## sennaster (Sep 21, 2006)

senorbanana said:


> I got my wheels about 12 days after payment, They look awesome and the dt swiss hubs roll great. Tubeless was sealed with a floor pump and quality is perfect!
> 
> m-i30a 350 hubs, jbend sapim dlight brass nipples
> 
> View attachment 1298935


Did you happen to get a weight on those? 1800ish?

I have some of their new profile i30a rims on order and some 350s in a drawer. Will likely use d-lites and brass as well.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I remember seeing the wheels on the scale and they were a few grams less than the claimed on the website when I configured it. dont recall the actual numbers tho.


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## SAIG (May 30, 2004)

I have had 10 rides on mine. I got the 30i, 32H, with Onyx Vespers. They are flawless. This is my first 29er after 25 years on 26er's. The wider tires/rims rolls over obstacles that I would have to dodge otherwise. I was pleasantly surprised that the price of the Onyx were equal to the CK. I have 3 sets of CK for my family's bikes but I'm never buying anything but the Onyx sprag hubs ever again. I used to like the angry bees but maybe I was showing off that I had CK's but now I feel annoyed about the noise after being on the Onyx. I have seen the one negative about them on MTBR but unless you are putting massive amount of torque I doubt you'll notice anything. They have an immediate engagement that is smooth for me. I'm a recreational rider.

The communication with BTLOS was excellent. The price for my wheels were much better than LB (I have LB on my 26er).


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

Got mine on the bike and went for a super quick spin around the neighborhood just to make sure everything was spinning well.

No real verdict on feel till I get them on the trail this weekend.

They look rad though!!


















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## cesjr (Jul 13, 2011)

For all the folks that have bought BTLOS rims and wheels, how is the ride quality? Too stiff or compliant enough? Anyone had more expensive carbon rims from the $$ guys like Enve or Reynolds or the $ guys like Santa Cruz, Derby, Nobel or Nox to compare? 


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

I've been using my i29 BTLOS rims for a little over a year now, so I thought it was worthwhile to post a follow-up review. First, I'd guess I've put about 600-700 miles on them this season - most of those miles are on technical, rocky trails. I'm running about 210 pounds right now, so these wheels have seen a decent amount of abuse, even if I am not doing much in the means of drops/jumps. So far I have had zero problems with my BTLOS rims - they are still spinning perfectly true on my truing stand, even though I have had a rash of tire punctures in the past few months. I really couldn't be happier. I've cleaned/greased the DT Swiss star ratchets a couple times, swapped tires and replaced sealant and that's been the extent of the maintenance I've done.

I wish I could comment more on the ride quality of the rims, but I really don't have a good point of reference to do a comparison. I've used lots of aluminum rims in the past, and these definitely feel stiffer than those rims. I don't know if they are too stiff or not - I'm not sure I have the skills to be able to assess that. I'll just let my review stand that I am very satisfied with the durability of the wheelset.


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## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the review. 

I'm contemplating BTLOS i24A rims on 240 hubs as a lightweight XC wheelset. My only concern is breaking a rim when I am far from anything and having a long hike. Has anyone broken a BTLOS rim while riding? Are they as durable as other carbon wheels out there? Do they make rims for any other brands?

For reference, I broke a Santa Cruz Reserve 30 rim on my Bronson last month. Luckily it was right at the end of the ride and my buddy went and got the car. No big deal. Santa Cruz took great care of me on the warranty and I had a brand new wheel in my hand a few days later. 

I know part of the deal with affordable BTLOS rims is that you're not paying for the warranty upfront. I'm fine with that, I just don't want to get stranded.


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

Got mine out for a ride a couple days ago. Pretty mild trail, but a handful or tech/rocky sections and g-outs to feel out the new setup.

Overall, the weight savings (between wheels and tires) is really noticeable. Spun up to speed much quicker and less perceived effort on climbs. Set a couple climbing PRs on Strava on a route I've done MANY times.

That said, they are stiff. Stopped mid-ride to drop air pressure, and will need to tweak my suspension over the next few rides to compensate. Felt it most in fast sections with small choppy terrain (e.g. baseball sized rocks).

Will ride more next weekend (rain all week here ) and report back with anything notable. Still very happy with the purchase, as the quality to price ratio appears to be excellent.










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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

BTLOS I30 dt350 32h 29ers. Ordered on 12-02, rec'd 01-08. Not bad considering Christmas/New Year shipping woes. Maxxis Icons are interim tires as I'm waiting on some 2.6 rubber. BTLOS was good to deal with, always returned emails. Mine is not a weight weenie build. Ended up with a 29.5lb hardtail. Fox36 and NX did not help matters.


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## sennaster (Sep 21, 2006)

Built up some 28h Btlos i30a rims to dt350s using d-lites and brass nips.

These are the newer 26mm depth profile, not 28mm as pictured on their site

With the Enduro layup the build came to 1814gr. The rims were 496 and 501gr. Built up super easy.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Anyone have any good photos of the 3K Matte finish? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger during the Chinese New Year sale. It seems the most popular by far is the UD. @DETarch, yours appear to be 3K Gloss, correct? What are your thoughts?


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> Anyone have any good photos of the 3K Matte finish? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger during the Chinese New Year sale. It seems the most popular by far is the UD. @DETarch, yours appear to be 3K Gloss, correct? What are your thoughts?


Yeah, mine are 3k gloss with no logos. I'm really happy with the choice- I've had a few sets of matte carbon wheels on previous bikes and just wanted to switch it up. Plus my bike's paint is gloss and I think it compliments it well. Easy to clean too.

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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered a set of M-i34A Premium with Hope Pro 4 & D-Light spokes. When comparing weights, The M-i30A were listed at 445g for Premium and the M-i34A at 420g. I'm keen on the WT style tires, so 34mm seemed like a good option while still being light. Let's see if the Coronavirus slows production down at all.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

areeves08 said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered a set of M-i34A Premium with Hope Pro 4 & D-Light spokes. When comparing weights, The M-i30A were listed at 445g for Premium and the M-i34A at 420g. I'm keen on the WT style tires, so 34mm seemed like a good option while still being light. Let's see if the Coronavirus slows production down at all.


Good width for high volume tires like 2.35 Bontragers. You can go to 2.5-2.6.
Hope rear hub makes noise.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Just got an email from Amy that the Hope Pro 4 isn’t available with a Microspline Free hub body, even though it was listed as an option. Dealbreaker for me. We’ll see if they can make something happen.


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## slavi (Aug 8, 2017)

How long do you have to wait for an e-mail reply from BTLOS?
I wanted to ask about a few things before ordering but I have no answer.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

slavi said:


> How long do you have to wait for an e-mail reply from BTLOS?
> I wanted to ask about a few things before ordering but I have no answer.


I had a great ordering experience and they were forthcoming when answering questions, but don't have any rides on my wheels yet. She always replied to my emails at about 530am Eastern.

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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

slavi said:


> How long do you have to wait for an e-mail reply from BTLOS?
> I wanted to ask about a few things before ordering but I have no answer.


When did you e-mail them? My experience was that if I e-mailed them during normal business hours (Chinese time) that I got responses quickly (10-15 minutes and faster). If it was outside of their hours, it varied more - worst case was that I would have a response the next morning. I can't remember if I asked questions or received responses over the weekend. In my experience their customer service was fantastic.


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## slavi (Aug 8, 2017)

On Saturday around noon UTC. Maybe this is just the weekend @queue. We will see.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

They have been closed for 2 weeks due to the Chinese New Year. I would imagine that they are backed up on responding to emails. You might try the live chat to see if you can get answers to your questions.


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

Has anyone ordered a BTLOS wheelset lately? How long did it take to get your order?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I haven't ordered lately, but I am really happy with the set I ordered. I got the i30a rims and they have taken some good hits including a square edged rock that pinch flatted my dhr2 exo+ with no rim damage. I even went with the lighter trail layup instead of Enduro.

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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

manpurse said:


> Has anyone ordered a BTLOS wheelset lately? How long did it take to get your order?


I ordered a rim on 2/2 during their Chinese New Year. I knew going in that it would take longer to ship because of the holiday. Then to make matters worse the Corona virus hit and their government delayed them going back to work. With all the orders they received during the holiday special it took them a while to get it shipped. It finally shipped on 3/10 but unfortunately with the Corona virus mucking things up it finally departed the country today 3/15. With the way things went with the last order it will take about 3-5 business days once it hits the states before I get it.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

thats not bad, I ordered a tallboy frame which was in stock in Santa Cruz and it took 6 weeks for them to send me the wrong color


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

ordered a set of gravel wheels on 2/24 and they have not shipped yet. they did email with some questions because certain items were out of stock and they wanted to know if they could substitute, so at least there were signs of activity.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

huckleberry hound said:


> I ordered a rim on 2/2 during their Chinese New Year. I knew going in that it would take longer to ship because of the holiday. Then to make matters worse the Corona virus hit and their government delayed them going back to work. With all the orders they received during the holiday special it took them a while to get it shipped. It finally shipped on 3/10 but unfortunately with the Corona virus mucking things up it finally departed the country today 3/15. With the way things went with the last order it will take about 3-5 business days once it hits the states before I get it.


I finally received it today 3/23. It took a while from the time it left China before it finally arrived here in the US. Some Googling said that Chinese air freight typically takes 8-10 days.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Any recent experience with BTLOS Gravel or Road wheels? I'm looking at building a WGX40 that are i22 for a 36mm road tire on my gravel bike. I can't seem to find a better value build at 1565g w/ DT350 for $747.


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

I ordered on 3/3 (three weeks ago) knowing there would probably be a delay. A few days after that they sent a confirmation email and then I assume started the build. Today I got an email from them saying their main shipping channel is currently suspended or greatly delayed because of the virus. They offered a full refund or asked if I would partially pay for a shipping upgrade through DHL. I paid the extra $80 and they ate the rest of the cost (they said it's $100), it's a hassle but I know the shipping time will be much quicker now. 

No experience with gravel or road wheels but I agree that BTLOS is a good value, after all the shopping around I did they were the best price. They don't have the best warranty but if I happen to break a rim they offer a generous crash replacement for the first two years and I can get the wheel rebuilt for less than $150.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

Only really "looking" at carbon wheels again. (itching to buy now!!!, but hard to talk myself into to spending the money considering all the recession talk) Also, I was worried about paying for something and then getting all kinds of delays due to the virus/having the wheels stuck during shipping or something. So good to hear BTLOS was good about communicating/working things out.

I saw an ad for Roost wheels and contacted them to see if they had any product in the US. But they are saying 2-3 week lead time shipped from China, though I wonder how accurate that is cause I think 2-3 weeks sounds like a "pre-virus" kind of timeline? Pricing wasn't "that much" more than BTLOS. (still if your ordering from china anyway and the warranty isn't great then...?)

What's up with how many service charges Light Bicycle adds on to their prices?? Seems pretty reasonable when you start filling out the order form, before you know it your like 5 hundred bucks higher...?  But their newest rim seems like it's about perfect and the 32IW seems like something I'd like. (rather than all the way to 35IW like Ibis)

Anyway, the other cool thing with BTLOs is at least "today/as of this moment" their rim prices are very reasonable/half LB even without the 25% crash replacement which is pretty cool!


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

manpurse said:


> I ordered on 3/3 (three weeks ago) knowing there would probably be a delay. A few days after that they sent a confirmation email and then I assume started the build. Today I got an email from them saying their main shipping channel is currently suspended or greatly delayed because of the virus. They offered a full refund or asked if I would partially pay for a shipping upgrade through DHL. I paid the extra $80 and they ate the rest of the cost (they said it's $100), it's a hassle but I know the shipping time will be much quicker now.
> 
> No experience with gravel or road wheels but I agree that BTLOS is a good value, after all the shopping around I did they were the best price. They don't have the best warranty but if I happen to break a rim they offer a generous crash replacement for the first two years and I can get the wheel rebuilt for less than $150.


I have a pending order from BTLOS and got the same message about needing to pay an extra $80 due to shipping rate increases (which I paid). I still haven't received a shipping notification nor tracking number despite pinging them about it. I've been patient because I know things are weird right now, but I have been hearing "your wheels will ship within a week" for at least a month. Not crazy about that.

I am not trying to say the service is bad, but if you're going to be placing an order with them (or probably most China based suppliers), expect shipping and delivery to be disrupted. Interestingly though, we deal with several China based suppliers at work and have not seen too much delay with them.


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## Daniel O. (Feb 17, 2011)

FWIW, I ordered from Nextie on ebay about a month ago. They had a few delays as well (partially my fault - when I asked them to make a change to the order). I let them know multiple times that I was not in a rush and understood the circumstances they may be facing. By the time they were ready to ship they also ran into a shipping issue via their normal channels as well. They upgraded my shipping to fedex for free (I'm not sure if I'm a unique case in this regard). They were very good at communicating whenever I asked for an update.

I'll probably try BTLOS or light bicycle next - I like trying different things.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Do you guys think it's smart to be ordering anything direct from China these days? (Virus in a box etc).
I have 2 sets of nextie very happy with them.


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## Daniel O. (Feb 17, 2011)

I worry about anything that comes in the mail right now. I assume anything that comes from outside the home could have come in contact with the virus (I've received things from NY and Chicago during the pandemic as well). I treat everything as if it needs to be quarantined/disinfected before use regardless of origin...


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## Brookes1980 (Apr 14, 2016)

Just to give a little bit more positive experience: 
I ordered from BTLOS at the beginning of the corona crisis. They were transparent and told me that the usual delivery routes can be delayed. I choose the carrier option which was 40€ more than the regular shipping rate but comes with precustoms service. Lead time was around 5 weeks. 

I´m absolutely stunned by the build quality. I chose a DT240 with 32h CX-Ray and the new 30mm Enduro rim. I´m weighing 95kg and next time I guess I will choose 28h in the front to give a little bit more compliance. The wheels ride like a charm, but you notice that they need a little bit of speed to feel their advantages. At slow speed they feel a little bit stiff over roots and stuff. But as soon as you accelerate they have kind of a damping effect and they hold much more speed than my previous DT EX511 build. 

For this price I can totally recommend. Also the communication and service were excellent. Only dissapointment was the installation of the tubeless tape... Not really done good, so I had to strip it apart and install a new one myself.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

bizango said:


> I have a pending order from BTLOS and got the same message about needing to pay an extra $80 due to shipping rate increases (which I paid). I still haven't received a shipping notification nor tracking number despite pinging them about it. I've been patient because I know things are weird right now, but I have been hearing "your wheels will ship within a week" for at least a month. Not crazy about that.
> 
> I am not trying to say the service is bad, but if you're going to be placing an order with them (or probably most China based suppliers), expect shipping and delivery to be disrupted. Interestingly though, we deal with several China based suppliers at work and have not seen too much delay with them.


I got my shipping notification and tracking number today. Looking forward to finally being able to finish off my new Hakka!


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

I was given my tracking number via DHL but the status has only said “shipping info received” since March 26. Now that it’s been ten days I’m not sure if they’ve even actually shipped it yet which I’d be disappointed in after paying the extra $80 for shipping.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

sounds like some of the other chinese carbon companies are having the same shipping issues
Foe example EIE

speaking of which:
I posted this in the cheap chinese thread as well

Anyone want to give their thoughts on BTLOS vs EIE?
right now price is quite similar and weights within a 100 grams or so with the EIE lighter but they rate at max rider wt of 130 vs the premium BTLOS at 180kg BTLOS rim is a slightly deeper section
Btlos 
https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/asym...plus-bike-rims
EIE
https://www.eiecarbon.com/a29c39d25-...rbon-rims.html
thoughts?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Daniel O. said:


> I worry about anything that comes in the mail right now. I assume anything that comes from outside the home could have come in contact with the virus (I've received things from NY and Chicago during the pandemic as well). I treat everything as if it needs to be quarantined/disinfected before use regardless of origin...


I would order stuff from China before I would from USA.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

I now own 2 sets of btlos wheels, one of which are over a year old of pretty hard riding. I run a set of 27.5 I34 premium DH and a set of 29 I34A premium. Zero issues and I would definitely buy more. Here is one of my bikes and a short clip of riding.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

threepin said:


> sounds like some of the other chinese carbon companies are having the same shipping issues
> Foe example EIE
> 
> speaking of which:
> ...


I just built up a set of the BTLOS i39a rims with my Hope hubs for my Stache. The reason I chose BTLOS is because of the increased max rider weight since I am a Clyde at about 260# with my 3 liter hydration pack.

I actually did this in two separate orders. I did the rear wheel first to replace the Duroc 50 which had split at the spoke holes for the second time at around Thanksgiving of last year. I placed the order the Sunday after Thanksgiving and received the rim on Christmas Eve. The actual weight of the 29er rim, standard series is 520g. I was very pleased the the quality of it and the service I received from Amy.

Then my front Duroc did the same thing so I ordered another BTLOS rim to replace it on 2-2-20. This was during the Chinese New Year holiday so I knew there would be a delay. And the the Corona virus hit there and delayed things further. I finally received it on 3-23-20. This one did't look quite the same but was still well done, however the Q.C. card attached to it said it weighed 687g or it could be 487g, their writing isn't the best. I didn't weigh it. Appearance wise the first one I would give an A+ the second one I would give an A-. I'm sure that the virus situation there has played a role in the differences. Once again Amy was always prompt with responses to my inquiries.

The extra weight doesn't bother me as I'm more concerned about strength than weight. I'm happy with my purchases and would do it again but knowing what I do now I would wait until everything gets back to somewhat normal in both countries to order if it was possible to wait.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

I actually have a set of BTLOS wheel i got this summer, 27Internal rims, 240s, cx ray and they have been great

Amy replied that they could do a lighter build than the premium as i don't need the strength of a 180 kg build


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## slavi (Aug 8, 2017)

waiting for shipment ... in tracking there still unchanged info from many days.

2020-03-26 06:15| Germany |Order Processed: Ready for UPS 

looks like parcel stuck there due to covid


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## Brookes1980 (Apr 14, 2016)

slavi said:


> waiting for shipment ... in tracking there still unchanged info from many days.
> 
> 2020-03-26 06:15| Germany |Order Processed: Ready for UPS
> 
> looks like parcel stuck there due to covid


I wouldn´t say that. Usually it takes up to two weeks till this status changes. But afterwards delivery follows really quickly. Did happen to me as well. Also beeing from germany.


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## mthopton (Apr 17, 2015)

Anyone have a BTLOS coupon code not being used?


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## slavi (Aug 8, 2017)

Finally arrived ... almost month in transit. Looks good


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Hey guys,

I'm curious as to what most people go with, the Standard vs Premium layup? It almost seems that the majority of people go with Premium rims, but maybe that's just my perception from this thread.

I am getting ready to place an order for a wheelset on Btlos. I have a hardtail (2019 Kona Big Honzo).

I'm leaning towards the Standard series rim to keep my budget a little bit lower, and I also don't want too much vertical stiffness where it would result in a harsh ride. I'm thinking I might get more vertical compliance with Standard, which should work well with my hardtail.

Have people had good luck with the Standard rims? Is there a large perceivable difference in quality between the Standard vs. Premium? Any horror or success stories with quality, strength, and durability with the Standard series? 

Any experiences that people could share dealing specifically with the Standard rims would be welcome and helpful.

Thanks!


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

I have only done the premium, so i can't speak to the differences. However, i would imagine the depth of the rim would make a difference as well and that it could even outweigh the effect of the mix of fibers.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Thanks for the Reply ThreePin. I plan to choose the i34 Asym, which is the more shallow rim depth, for that exact reason.

Budget has a bit to do with this decision too, so I was just curious of what people thought of the Standard specifically, and how they have been working out for folks.


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## manpurse (Feb 6, 2011)

My rims also arrived, it took 42 days from order to my doorstep plus an $80 upgrade in shipping. Pretty slow but I suppose the virus shutdown got in the way, the package was apparently sitting at DHL for a while. 

Rims and build quality look good at a fraction of the price of name brand hoops (Santa Cruz, Enve, etc). I figure if I brake a rim two or three times I'll still come out ahead in cost over other brands with a lifetime warranty. I went with the standard rims in 29mm width but I haven't had a chance to try them yet until I'm done building up my frame.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Yeah, they told me the same thing about shipping. Needed to pay for the difference for FedEx because EMS is Closed. I almost want to wait to see if its cheaper when they reopen EMS so they can ship regularly.

Glad to hear you are happy with the quality (looks-wise) of the Standard rims, thanks for the response. Im excited to hear how you like them once you get riding on them.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, I cracked my 30i am premium rear rim. I'm not sure what did it, I didn't have any hard impacts on the ride today. The wheels are 4 months old. We'll see how they handle it.








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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that, Rain. That's a bummer.
I'll be keeping and eye out for a follow-up from you on how they handle it. I'm sure many people would be interested to know.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

rain164845 said:


> Well, I cracked my 30i am premium rear rim. I'm not sure what did it, I didn't have any hard impacts on the ride today. The wheels are 4 months old. We'll see how they handle it.
> View attachment 1325801
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I will say that I have had a hard impact on the wheel before and couldn't detect damage. Pinch flatted a exo+ dhr2. That was a month ago with several hard rides since.

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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

More pics


























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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

rain164845 said:


> More pics
> View attachment 1325889
> View attachment 1325891
> View attachment 1325893
> ...


definitely looks like impact damage, I have been running cushcore on my 2 sets of wheels. I use cushcore pro on my i34 and xc on my i30a. Provides impact protection so no pinch flats, sidewalk support and lower tire pressure. I hope btlos helps square you away with a replacement


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

senorbanana said:


> definitely looks like impact damage, I have been running cushcore on my 2 sets of wheels. I use cushcore pro on my i34 and xc on my i30a. Provides impact protection so no pinch flats, sidewalk support and lower tire pressure. I hope btlos helps square you away with a replacement


Yep, very well could be impact related. We'll see what they say!

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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

rain164845 said:


> Yep, very well could be impact related. We'll see what they say!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Don't want to be the one that saying this, but what you pay is what you get - cheap Chinese quality...

Hope they'll help you out.


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## mthopton (Apr 17, 2015)

On the fence with ordering these but am pretty much in an F anything from China mode right now. Might have to bite the bullet and buy some rims from We Are One, though much more expensive.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rain164845 said:


> Well, I cracked my 30i am premium rear rim. I'm not sure what did it, I didn't have any hard impacts on the ride today. The wheels are 4 months old. We'll see how they handle it.
> View attachment 1325801
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Probably happened on a previous ride. I've cracked 2 rims, both my fault. Given the number of rims and time span, I would have definitely trashed more aluminum rims from the big hits where the carbon don't taco, but on the last one I noticed it right before an enduro race, where I was riding a jump line. Luckily was able to get home and put my replacement in. When I thought back to it, I was pretty certain I did it on a drop that leads to a loaded g-out on a rock. I wasn't using enough pressure. That's a classic over-stress (from a sharp impact) fracture right there, starting from the edge of the rim.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Muddy-Runs said:


> Don't want to be the one that saying this, but what you pay is what you get - cheap Chinese quality...
> 
> Hope they'll help you out.


Explain to me specifically how the quality on these is worse than something like Envy, NOS, Reserve, etc. A review in the last few years sawed apart these and "name brand" rims and found less voids in the Chinese ones.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

HAHAHA enve and name brand rims break all the time when the carbon get compromised. My btlos rims had smoother spoke holes than American made carbon rims I have worked on.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Explain to me specifically how the quality on these is worse than something like Envy, NOS, Reserve, etc. A review in the last few years sawed apart these and "name brand" rims and found less voids in the Chinese ones.


Totally agree with this. I am curious to see how BTLOS handles the failed rim, but I have no reason to think that these BTLOS rims are any lesser quality than the main US brands. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the US brand rims were made in the BTLOS factory...


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Explain to me specifically how the quality on these is worse than something like Envy, NOS, Reserve, etc. A review in the last few years sawed apart these and "name brand" rims and found less voids in the Chinese ones.


Every carbon rim can or will brake in one point, but American, Canadian or European companies having higher QC and service over Chinese companies. And these days i prefer supporting them over Chinese companies.

Can you show me please review that compared these rims with "name brand" rims like Enve, Santa Cruz, DT Swiss and so ?


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## bapski (Jul 27, 2012)

mthopton said:


> On the fence with ordering these but am pretty much in an F anything from China mode right now. Might have to bite the bullet and buy some rims from We Are One, though much more expensive.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


same here and kinda relieved i went with WAO... expecting my wheels by this week.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

yeah sure, here is the amazing American enve QC https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-enve-m735e-wheelset.html
and some American trek
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/c...l-sets/bontrager-line-pro-30-wheelset-review/
some dt swiss
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-dt-swiss-exc-1200-spline-wheelset.html

it happens with every rim, and it does not seem as if "real companies" have better QC


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

senorbanana said:


> yeah sure, here is the amazing American enve QC https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-enve-m735e-wheelset.html
> and some American trek
> https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/c...l-sets/bontrager-line-pro-30-wheelset-review/
> some dt swiss
> ...


I know these reviews, but thats not what i was asking.
Im looking for review that compared these BTLOS rims, with "name brand" rims...


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

rain164845 said:


> I will say that I have had a hard impact on the wheel before and couldn't detect damage. Pinch flatted a exo+ dhr2. That was a month ago with several hard rides since.


This break is compounded by the apparent impact point being lined up on a spoke hole. Did you by chance logo-index your pinch flatted tire to the valve stems so you could verify if this failure is the same spot of the previous pinch flat?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Explain to me specifically how the quality on these is worse than something like Envy, NOS, Reserve, etc. A review in the last few years sawed apart these and "name brand" rims and found less voids in the Chinese ones.


And that was an Enve rim with the voids. I'm not saying there is no merit in buying from a place like WAO, but the majority of known brands are just sourcing their rims from China anyway, and the price difference would often allow you to have a couple of spare rims on the shelf and still pay less. I've built up several sets of LB and BTLOS rims and the quality and durability has been consistently good.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Velodonata said:


> This break is compounded by the apparent impact point being lined up on a spoke hole. Did you by chance logo-index your pinch flatted tire to the valve stems so you could verify if this failure is the same spot of the previous pinch flat?


I didn't. 
The food news is that they are taking great care of the problem. Their analysis was that it was due to an initial hard impact, which I don't disagree with. 
The new rim that they are making me is going to be their DH layup instead of the trail layup that I initially had. 50g difference. No big deal.
I didn't sell my original wheels just in case I needed a backup for some reason so I'm still in business.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

That sounds great, I'm glad you got it squared away.


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## Kadath (Mar 13, 2017)

So how much are they charging you for the new rim? Did they just sell you a crash replacement for 25% off or are they giving you a rim for free?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Kadath said:


> So how much are they charging you for the new rim? Did they just sell you a crash replacement for 25% off or are they giving you a rim for free?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not free, but I would rather not say.

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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Muddy-Runs said:


> Every carbon rim can or will brake in one point, but American, Canadian or European companies having higher QC and service over Chinese companies. And these days i prefer supporting them over Chinese companies.
> 
> Can you show me please review that compared these rims with "name brand" rims like Enve, Santa Cruz, DT Swiss and so ?


I believe the Santa Cruz wheels come from China/Asia as well.


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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Thinking of placing an order. Thoughts on the WM-i29A wheel. Looking at the AM premium build with 28H DT240. Probably going with the C Xray spokes. 

I weigh about 175 with gear. I ride some rocky but mostly rooty trails. Usually no drops over 4'. I would call it aggressive XC to light AM riding. This will be going on a Tallboy 3. I am on ENVE M60 27.5+ wheels. They are on DT 350 28H now. I am looking for a lighter weight wheel around the 1600g weight that will be durable for my purposes. Thoughts?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

stygz1 said:


> Thinking of placing an order. Thoughts on the WM-i29A wheel. Looking at the AM premium build with 28H DT240. Probably going with the C Xray spokes.
> 
> I weigh about 175 with gear. I ride some rocky but mostly rooty trails. Usually no drops over 4'. I would call it aggressive XC to light AM riding. This will be going on a Tallboy 3. I am on ENVE M60 27.5+ wheels. They are on DT 350 28H now. I am looking for a lighter weight wheel around the 1600g weight that will be durable for my purposes. Thoughts?


I would say 4' drops puts you more than am...

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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Those are far a few between. Get the EN build?


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

I would ask your question to BTLOS directly. In my experience, they are extremely responsive and helpful to get you the correct rims for your riding style. I asked them, and they provided me with great info and guidance. They know their product better than anyone, after all. Hopefully this helps, and good luck with your wheel build!


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

I do like my BTLOS wheelset but I question their suggestions on wheel builds. When I asked about wheel builds they suggested 32H over 28H. I went with 32H but really it’s overkill for me. I’m 165lbs fully loaded and ride fairly mellow trails with nothing more than 2-3 ft drops. Should have gone with my gut and got the 28H. 
Maybe they had a bunch of 32H 350 hubs they wanted to clear out [:/


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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

rstark18 said:


> I do like my BTLOS wheelset but I question their suggestions on wheel builds. When I asked about wheel builds they suggested 32H over 28H. I went with 32H but really it's overkill for me. I'm 165lbs fully loaded and ride fairly mellow trails with nothing more than 2-3 ft drops. Should have gone with my gut and got the 28H.
> Maybe they had a bunch of 32H 350 hubs they wanted to clear out [:/


What wheel build did you go with?


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Are you unhappy with the extra four spokes? Maybe I'm missing something? Im not an expert by any means, but I did a bit of reading on 28 vs 32 spoke wheels before purchasing mine. It seems like the vast majority of experienced people around here say go for the 32H. It makes for a stronger wheel, with a very, very small, almost non existent weight penalty. Maybe someone who knows more about this than me can chime in if this is incorrect, but that's the understanding I have on it. They don't cost more, and they don't really weigh a significant amount more, so why not go for 32H? It sounds like they gave you sound advice to make the wheelset stronger which is a bonus, I would think.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

K-Schick said:


> Are you unhappy with the extra four spokes? Maybe I'm missing something? Im not an expert by any means, but I did a bit of reading on 28 vs 32 spoke wheels before purchasing mine. It seems like the vast majority of experienced people around here say go for the 32H. It makes for a stronger wheel, with a very, very small, almost non existent weight penalty. Maybe someone who knows more about this than me can chime in if this is incorrect, but that's the understanding I have on it. They don't cost more, and they don't really weigh a significant amount more, so why not go for 32H? It sounds like they gave you sound advice to make the wheelset stronger which is a bonus, I would think.


I guess you didn't read my first sentence. For ME the extra 8 spokes are completely unnecessary for my riding style and weight. After all why do you think they offer 28 in the first place.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Here's my Stache with BTLOS i39A rims and Hope Pro4 hubs, XR4 3.0 on the front and XR2 3.0 on the rear. I went with the standard rims, UD Glossy. So far I'm happy with my purchase. I'm tired of the Duroc rims splitting around the spoke holes. I've had three rims do this and one of my buddies had one do this as well on his Stache. The i39A rims have an extra carbon strip around the spoke holes to reinforce it.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

rstark18 said:


> I guess you didn't read my first sentence. For ME the extra 8 spokes are completely unnecessary for my riding style and weight. After all why do you think they offer 28 in the first place.


I read your full post, I get it. Sorry man, I wasn't trying to get nitpicky or anything, I was honestly just curious if there was something important that I was missing in there that's all. I would think a stronger wheelset with no large drawbacks would be a benefit, just in the off chance you happen to roll across a sharp rock or something. Who knows, it may be the difference between something breaking and something not breaking. Just trying to gain some perspective from you as to why you specifically did not like the 32H. If the answer is simply "because it's overkill". That's fine. It's all good man. No hate here, it's all love from my side.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

All good. 
The drawback is less compliance. It’s a trade off that is hard to figure out without a lot of experience on different wheelsets. I’ve always had aluminum and didn’t know what to expect with carbon. If I get another set I will go with 28H. Most likely I’ll get a 29er at some point and get a set for that.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Ahhh, I see. Good info! Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it! If you do end up getting a set of 28 hole, you should report back and let us know of how big of a difference in compliance you notice!


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

There is zero compliance difference with 28h over 32h. All compliance is going to come from the rim only. Stiff rims are stiff even using 20 spokes.

I ordered 50 sets of the same rim in 20-32h and built all of them on the same hubs and tried them on the same bike. They all rode the same. 1.5 vs 1.8 spokes makes a marginal difference, but not really.

You can very easily have 20h wheels that are a *lot* stiffer and harsher than 36h wheels, but it 100% comes down to the rim itself. The spoke gauge or butting matters very little as well.

28h is the minimum for durability, imo. 28h is probably fine for most riders in most conditions. 32h is almost certainly fine for everyone. 4 spokes is cheap insurance with no downside and all benefits, so I suggest it for everyone no matter what. 

We try to make this a multi-variable hard question (spoke choice), but I think it really is dead simple. If you're under about 300 pounds, use 32 spokes in 2.0/1.8 butting. If you simply want to save weight, use 2.0/1.5 spokes instead.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

huckleberry hound said:


> Here's my Stache with BTLOS i39A rims and Hope Pro4 hubs, XR4 3.0 on the front and XR2 3.0 on the rear. I went with the standard rims, UD Glossy. So far I'm happy with my purchase. I'm tired of the Duroc rims splitting around the spoke holes. I've had three rims do this and one of my buddies had one do this as well on his Stache. The i39A rims have an extra carbon strip around the spoke holes to reinforce it.
> 
> View attachment 1328625


Nice Stache Huckleberry! And thanks for the info!


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## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

I ordered a set of WM-i24A wheels built by BTLOS on December 28, they arrived January 20. These are for my XC race bike and I had them built as light as possible with DT 240S hubs, 28 hole, straight pull CX-Ray spokes, aluminum nipples in a UD matte finish on premium XC layup. I weight 180 lbs. Including shipping the set cost me $1030.

The wheelset came in spot on at the calculated weight of 1365 grams. I have about 600 miles on them so far and they are absolutely fantastic, true, and very fast. The other day I took a bad line through a rock garden and heard a loud bang so I thought I broke my front rim. I pinch flatted the Rekon Exo tire but there wasn't even a scratch on the rim. I'm very impressed.

When I received the rim I did not think the workmanship was as good as it should be. There were 4 mold marks on the bed of each rim at 90° from each other, see the picture below. My Santa Cruz Reserves on my Bronson do not show any mold marks on them (and I've already broken a SC rim and had it replaced immediately).

I emailed Amy at BTLOS about the rim quality and after she assured me they would be as strong as advertised we did a bit of negotiating and they made me new rims at no cost. I did end up paying $60 to ship them to California via FedEx since the free shipping through EMS is not really running during the coronavirus pandemic, which I thought was reasonable.

I am super impressed with their customer service. They first offered me a longer warranty and some money back on the original purchase, but when I said I just wanted new rims they agreed. I don't think a US manufacturer would have gone to this length to keep a customer happy.

I'll keep the new rims until I break one of the original rims. I am very happy with my BTLOS wheels and would buy from them again.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

BrewMaster said:


> ...When I received the rim I did not think the workmanship was as good as it should be. There were 4 mold marks on the bed of each rim at 90° from each other, see the picture below. My Santa Cruz Reserves on my Bronson do not show any mold marks on them (and I've already broken a SC rim and had it replaced immediately).
> 
> I emailed Amy at BTLOS about the rim quality and after she assured me they would be as strong as advertised we did a bit of negotiating and they made me new rims at no cost. I did end up paying $60 to ship them...


TIL all my carbon rims have been defective and I was just too stupid to talk the manufacturer out of free ones.

Wow, that's impressive on multiple levels.


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## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

Velodonata said:


> TIL all my carbon rims have been defective and I was just too stupid to talk the manufacturer out of free ones.
> 
> Wow, that's impressive on multiple levels.


I won't lie, it took a lot of patience. At first, they wanted me to cut my old rims but I was honest and said I just wanted these as replacements should the originals fail. No need to waste a rim that's still working. The replacement rims each have 1 mold mark instead of 4, so I call that an improvement.


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## K-Schick (Apr 16, 2020)

Good info! Thanks OnePivot.


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## mthopton (Apr 17, 2015)

BrewMaster said:


> I won't lie, it took a lot of patience. At first, they wanted me to cut my old rims but I was honest and said I just wanted these as replacements should the originals fail. No need to waste a rim that's still working. The replacement rims each have 1 mold mark instead of 4, so I call that an improvement.


Sounds to me like you took advantage of the situation. IMO, you should have requested a replacement if/when the rims failed, not because of a mold line - especially if you're still ok with mold lines in the replacements.

I think you should have to cut up the existing rims if you're not happy and use the replacements as they're intended.

At the very least, you should have been more discreet about posting this **** online.

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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

mthopton said:


> Sounds to me like you took advantage of the situation. IMO, you should have requested a replacement if/when the rims failed, not because of a mold line - especially if you're still ok with mold lines in the replacements.
> 
> I think you should have to cut up the existing rims if you're not happy and use the replacements as they're intended.
> 
> At the very least, you should have been more discreet about posting this **** online.


Yeah, I had mixed emotions about this one too, but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he really felt that visible mold lines were a serious defect and BTLOS gave him new rims, well I can't argue with that but I probably wouldn't post the details. However he did so in the context of a favorable review and I think he was trying to give an example of good customer service.

I personally don't think the mold lines are an issue, it's common for there to be cosmetic irregularities in carbon that don't indicate a structural deficiency, especially where it doesn't show in normal use. There are a lot of very well regarded frames out there that look atrocious on the inside if you don't realize what you are looking at. I had an experience a while back when I raised a cosmetic issue with a company that sells carbon bars. They sent me a new one, and asked me to return the bad one in the same box. I ended up sending the replacement back because it had very similar flaws that were even a little worse, but I had already done a little more research and realized that I was probably being overly cautious.

I feel like I recall mold marks on every carbon rim I have built up. I'm not going to pull a tire to look at the only set of BTLOS rims I have available to me, but just poking around the garage I've got an old and well used set of 26" LB rims that have very similar mold marks, and another set of used Easton EC90XC wheels that also have noticeable marks in the rim bed. It's just part of the typical manufacturing process. Maybe BTLOS has minimized this in their production and it was excessive by their current standards. For whatever reason BTLOS decided they would rather go above and beyond for this customer than deny the claim, and it may very well pay off in good will and more business. I can say my limited experiences with BTLOS are positive too.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

If I were to build a set of rims for my self I would not hesitate to use any wheel that btlos Makes. I think they make wonderful products. Every wheel I have purchased has built up easy and straight. If you don't like mold lines sand them down and put a little super glue on them. Those mold lines don't bother me.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Oh, I got my replacement rim on Monday if this week. It's already built up and I rode it today. Flawless.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

rain164845 said:


> Oh, I got my replacement rim on Monday if this week. It's already built up and I rode it today. Flawless.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I was just thinking today how happy I have been with my BTLOS wheels. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set of wheels from them.


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on. 
I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.

My build:
Rim Size: 29er
Series: Premium
Version: AM
Finish: Matte
Weave: 12K
Spoke Count: 32H/32H
Hub Type: DT SWISS 350
Ratchet: Upgrade 36T
Hub Color: Black
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: Shimano Microspline
Brake Interface: Center Lock ( Disc )
Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
Spoke System: J-bend
Nipple: Brass Black


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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

darrylruddock said:


> Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on.
> I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.
> 
> My build:
> ...


If you are spending the money on the 36T, Just go ahead and get the 54T.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

darrylruddock said:


> Looking for any critique on the wheels I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on.
> I had a bad rim strike on Sunday and my IBIS S35 rim is dented pretty good. Going to just throw a tube in to keep me running for now. It's worth noting that I'm typically easy on rims and this is my first time ever getting a flat. Rider 175 and riding more XC/trail east coast kind of trails. I also don't plan to run anything over 2.4 wide.
> 
> My build:
> ...


Which specific rim?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

rain164845 said:


> Which specific rim?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Oops sorry WM-i29A


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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

darrylruddock said:


> Oops sorry WM-i29A


That should make a very nice wheel. I chatted with BTLOS online about that wheel and you describe exactly my weight and riding style. They said that is a good wheel for those needs.

I was going to buy that wheel but decided to order from a shop in the US that does custom wheels. I really wanted to try the I9 hubs and with the shipping problems (at the time), it was probably a better choice for me at the time. I did spend more though.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

darrylruddock said:


> Oops sorry WM-i29A


I've been running their original non-asymmetric i29 rim for a year and a half now and it has been completely trouble free. This rim is definitely a lighter-weight version than what I have (I think each rim was approx 460 grams), but if you generally aren't hard on rims then it should be more than sufficient. As a point of reference I am 200 pounds and while I don't do jumps and drops, we have a lot of rocks on our local trails.

I'm sort of indifferent to the CX-Ray spokes - it is highly unlikely that you will benefit from the aero aspects of the spoke, and I personally think the weight difference isn't really noticeable, but other than extra cost I doubt there is any downside to them.


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## stygz1 (Nov 21, 2011)

From what I have read in CXray spokes, they are stronger and lighter. They can be used on a wider range of applications to include DH wheels. I can't see the aero effect being of much benefit on MTB. I have had a couple sets of wheels with these spoke and I ordered my current set with them as well. 

The question is; would you have wished you had ordered the CXray spokes later or curious if you had?


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

stygz1 said:


> From what I have read in CXray spokes, they are stronger and lighter. They can be used on a wider range of applications to include DH wheels. I can't see the aero effect being of much benefit on MTB. I have had a couple sets of wheels with these spoke and I ordered my current set with them as well.
> 
> The question is; would you have wished you had ordered the CXray spokes later or curious if you had?


Its not really something I gave much thought to honestly. Weight wasn't really my top concern and double butted spokes are certainly a known quantity for me. My personal choice was to go with the DT Swiss 240s hubs, which is certainly a little inconsistent with my 'weight isn't a top concern' comment, but I understand that the bearings are a higher quality in these than the DT 350 hubs, and its a hub I've been using for years with absolutely no problems. The only thing I would personally avoid is direct pull spokes because they are such a PITA to deal with. Beyond that - whatever floats your boat 

BTLOS makes great rims and builds great wheels - I personally don't think you can really go wrong with them.


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## InertiaMan (Apr 16, 2004)

A couple questions for the BTLOS users . . .

1) Has anyone with wheel building experience done a quantified assessment of the wheel build quality? Specifically, used a tensiometer to measure both absolute and relative spoke tension? Also, a visual inspection of the spoke position in the nipple base to confirm they are using correct length spokes (spoke end not protruding, not too recessed, but "just right")
2) has anyone put hands on both Nextie NXT29XMA36 (or 27.5 equivalent) and the M-i30A model from BTLOS? The cross sectional drawings are identical. Interestingly, the BTLOS rim is notably heavier (445g vs 410g if comparing premium to premium, trail layup not enduro).


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

stygz1 said:


> From what I have read in CXray spokes, they are stronger and lighter. They can be used on a wider range of applications to include DH wheels. I can't see the aero effect being of much benefit on MTB. I have had a couple sets of wheels with these spoke and I ordered my current set with them as well.
> 
> The question is; would you have wished you had ordered the CXray spokes later or curious if you had?


The main reason to use Sapim CX-Rays is that you can readily identify and control spoke windup when building with them.

Otherwise, they have the same physical and mechanical properties as Sapim Lasers. They have the same cross sectional area.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

About to pull the trigger on this build for my ripmo af try shed some weight, I tried a demo ripmo with carbon rims thought nothing of it till I tried the alloy s35 wheelset which has noticeable flex hence the urge for carbon


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

Update on mine- roughly 9 months since I bought my WM-i29A laced to 240s (28H front and rear). Zero issues and haven't needed a single truing. I've put ~600 miles on them on an SB150, Commencal Meta TR, and currently on my SB130.

No complaints whatsoever from me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from BTLOS again. While I've had these wheels, I also briefly had a set of Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels (with Spec-branded 350 hubs), and I preferred the BTLOS set.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

whats everyone going for AM or DH weight ? i'm not really a rim denter although where i ride doesn't have heap of rocks, i did how ever lightly dent my bontragers on my old remedy but they were so light weight i'm also only 175lb


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You can go AM and you can add a message in the box requesting rims at the low end of the weight range.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

think i'll do that ask for rims on the heavier end of the spectrum of the AM rims good idea


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

DETarch said:


> Update on mine- roughly 9 months since I bought my WM-i29A laced to 240s (28H front and rear). Zero issues and haven't needed a single truing. I've put ~600 miles on them on an SB150, Commencal Meta TR, and currently on my SB130.
> 
> No complaints whatsoever from me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from BTLOS again. While I've had these wheels, I also briefly had a set of Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels (with Spec-branded 350 hubs), and I preferred the BTLOS set.
> 
> ...


interested in why you prefer btlos over the roval carbons? also what weight rim did you go ?


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

turner_nz said:


> interested in why you prefer btlos over the roval carbons? also what weight rim did you go ?


Preference for the BTLOS wheels was due to weight and hub engagement. I have the 54T ratchet, and the Rovals had 18T, which can obviously be swapped easily. But there was also a 250-300g weight difference between the sets, with no real discernible ride quality difference. Overall, just felt like more effort to spin up the Rovals.

Can't recall the rim weight, but the wheelset was estimated to be ~1560g from the quote that Amy provided, so presumably the lighter option. Hasn't been an issue in terms of durability, flex, etc. at all for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

turner_nz said:


> think i'll do that ask for rims on the heavier end of the spectrum of the AM rims good idea


The new 18.5mm deep rims are due the end of this month. They are supposed to deal with impact better.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

Oh yeah where did you hear that from? That's more like the ibis s35 profile hmmmm to wait or not to wait


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

They have free shipping right now until 8/31 with coupon code SFS2020.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

boom nevermind just released today

https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/29er-34mm-internal-mountain-bike-downhill-shallow-carbon-wheels


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

turner_nz said:


> boom nevermind just released today
> 
> https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/29er-34mm-internal-mountain-bike-downhill-shallow-carbon-wheels


Sweet! Thanks for this. The i30 version of this rim is just what I've been waiting for to buy for my wife's bike. I pulled the trigger. This wheelset should save about 500 grams over her current wheelset; with 400 of that in the rims.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

SoCal-Rider said:


> Sweet! Thanks for this. The i30 version of this rim is just what I've been waiting for to buy for my wife's bike. I pulled the trigger. This wheelset should save about 500 grams over her current wheelset; with 400 of that in the rims.


nice one dude! but if arc hadn't said anything i would have got the standard i34a wheelset was going to place the order this week would have been super guttered if i saw it later on as its near close enough to the ibis s35 carbon profile!


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

SoCal-Rider said:


> Sweet! Thanks for this. The i30 version of this rim is just what I've been waiting for to buy for my wife's bike. I pulled the trigger. This wheelset should save about 500 grams over her current wheelset; with 400 of that in the rims.


For this model wheel the website is not working and will not let me proceed to choose the version of wheel AM/EN/DH etc for some reason.
For other models I was considering I29A for example is working fine.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

darrylruddock said:


> For this model wheel the website is not working and will not let me proceed to choose the version of wheel AM/EN/DH etc for some reason.
> For other models I was considering I29A for example is working fine.


Hmm. That Version option wasn't even available yesterday.

This is my configuration.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

any reason why no one is going for the new dt swiss 240 exp hub? seems like you can get a really good price on one if you buy it with the kit. i know the 350 is tried and true so understand that part of it.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

and before i go down a rabbit hole of symmetric vs asymmetric which one should i be getting?


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

adumb said:


> any reason why no one is going for the new dt swiss 240 exp hub? seems like you can get a really good price on one if you buy it with the kit. i know the 350 is tried and true so understand that part of it.


IIRC 240 EXPs added $250 to the build. I've had both 350s and 240s in the past. To me there wasn't a $250 difference in performance.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

adumb said:


> and before i go down a rabbit hole of symmetric vs asymmetric which one should i be getting?


Asym will give you more even spoke tension.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

adumb said:


> and before i go down a rabbit hole of symmetric vs asymmetric which one should i be getting?


It doesn't matter.

These AS rims look neat. Too bad I'm good on wheels for now.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

adumb said:


> any reason why no one is going for the new dt swiss 240 exp hub? seems like you can get a really good price on one if you buy it with the kit. i know the 350 is tried and true so understand that part of it.


When I bought my BTLOS wheels, I got the 240S hubs - the 240 EXPs weren't available. Honestly, getting the star ratchet mechanism is the more important part (both the 350 and the 240 hubs have those) - I was personally willing to pay extra for the better bearings that come with the 240 hubs. If I were buying another wheelset I'd probably get the 240 EXPs simply because I've been using the 240 hubs on my bikes since 2011 and never had a single problem with them. I'm sure the 350 hubs are fine (I'd certainly go with them if the cost were an issue), but I tend to stick with what has worked in my experience.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

TylerVernon said:


> It doesn't matter.
> 
> These AS rims look neat. Too bad I'm good on wheels for now.


I agree that it doesn't matter. The AS rims appeal to me only to minimize the surface area that is exposed to rocks. My BTLOS rims are really scratched up from almost 2 years of riding them on lots of rocks. But I haven't had to true them once yet, so I'm not complaining.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

did any of you guys that bought the wheels get hit with that 25% duty tax for anything over 800?


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

no duty charged on the last 2 sets I got from them, shipped via FedEx to the USA.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

i ordered a complete wheelset. i will keep this thread posted with how it turns out. from what i have read i dont expect to even see the rims for at least 30 days.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

DETarch said:


> Update on mine- roughly 9 months since I bought my WM-i29A laced to 240s (28H front and rear). Zero issues and haven't needed a single truing. I've put ~600 miles on them on an SB150, Commencal Meta TR, and currently on my SB130.
> 
> No complaints whatsoever from me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from BTLOS again. While I've had these wheels, I also briefly had a set of Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels (with Spec-branded 350 hubs), and I preferred the BTLOS set.


That's great news, I ordered the same spec (with 240 exp) and they are supposed to ship tomorrow which is good timing because I just trashed the Stans wheel on my smuggler.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

Hello I'm on the market for this wheel also.

Can you explain me why you choose the wm-i29a over the wM-i30A ?

Especially for enduro riding. The support didnt really help me on explaining the difference between the 2 rims.

The i29a in premium EN layup weight 420g. The i30a in premium AM layup weight 440g but wider and higher.

So which one is the strongest in this configuration ? I tend to think than the i29a in EN layup is stronger since more material in less surface. 

The i30 in EN layup is too heavy. 
the new i30a is even heavier. 

Thanks


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

OHHH

and what do you think of this one : *https://btlos.com/mountain-bike/29er-30mm-inner-width-all-mountain-enduro-shallow-carbon-wheels*

I never saw it on their website and never read a review. its new ? worth it ?


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Curious for other responses. I need/want a second set of wheels and am eyeballing the shallow depth ones myself.


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

choan said:


> Hello I'm on the market for this wheel also.
> 
> Can you explain me why you choose the wm-i29a over the wM-i30A ?
> 
> ...


I chose the i29 basically for the reasons you outlined...seemed to be a robust rim at a decent weight, and I don't see any fundamental difference between 29mm and 30mm inner width. I had an overall wheelset weight in mind and the i29 rims were a good fit for the build.

The newer shallow depth profile rims weren't available when I purchased my wheelset, so that didn't factor into my decision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

I just ordered this, seems like a good deal! ill update once i ride them


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## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

adumb said:


> did any of you guys that bought the wheels get hit with that 25% duty tax for anything over 800?


No tax/tariff on mine. The shipping paperwork said they were samples and I guess US Customs didn't question that.

I've got 1800 miles on my set of i24A rims with DT240S hubs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes. They have not needed any truing or tensioning so far and ride them in rough/rocky trails. I would not hesitate to buy another set of BTLOS wheels for my next bike.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

DETarch said:


> I chose the i29 basically for the reasons you outlined...seemed to be a robust rim at a decent weight, and I don't see any fundamental difference between 29mm and 30mm inner width. I had an overall wheelset weight in mind and the i29 rims were a good fit for the build.
> 
> The newer shallow depth profile rims weren't available when I purchased my wheelset, so that didn't factor into my decision.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the same mindset. Thanks for the answer.



Mortsnarb said:


> I just ordered this, seems like a good deal! ill update once i ride them


awsome, can't wait to have your feedback on them. Did you discuss with btlos before picking them over classic i30a ?


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

choan said:


> awsome, can't wait to have your feedback on them. Did you discuss with btlos before picking them over classic i30a ?


Nope, i just picked them lol. Seems like a lot of rims companies are doing this new shallow profile so it seems good. Plus its new design so its got to be MORE better! lol


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

Mortsnarb said:


> Nope, i just picked them lol. Seems like a lot of rims companies are doing this new shallow profile so it seems good. Plus its new design so its got to be MORE better! lol


I also ordered i30AS with Coating Free and 240s 54t upgrade. Hopefully, I don't regret not ordering weareone over BTLOS wheels.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

cointossm2 said:


> I also ordered i30AS with Coating Free and 240s 54t upgrade. Hopefully, I don't regret not ordering weareone over BTLOS wheels.


I have both wheelsets. The I30a with 350 hubs on one bike and weareone union with onyx on the other. Aesthetically the weareones look better but they perform the same and I have owned the I30a's for a year now with 0 issues. Cushcore in the rear wheel on the I30a.


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## cointossm2 (Nov 12, 2018)

senorbanana said:


> I have both wheelsets. The I30a with 350 hubs on one bike and weareone union with onyx on the other. Aesthetically the weareones look better but they perform the same and I have owned the I30a's for a year now with 0 issues. Cushcore in the rear wheel on the I30a.


Haven't looked into Cushcore yet. I need to start researching on it.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

cointossm2 said:


> Haven't looked into Cushcore yet. I need to start researching on it.


I love it, allows me to run about 20psi in the rear without any worry of rim damage or folding tires. well worth the 250g. if you are worried about weight only do the rear one. The xc cushcore model did not work as well as I wanted, I prefer the normal cushcore.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm in the market for a pair of carbon 29er wheels for more XC riding (tire 2.2-2.4). Just became aware of BTLOS and considering the WM-i27AS but also looking at NOBL, Light Bicycle, and Ibis... These will be going on a hardtail (Banshee Paradox) so was curious how compliant/stiff the BTLOS are.


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## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

Matthew_VA said:


> I'm in the market for a pair of carbon 29er wheels for more XC riding (tire 2.2-2.4). Just became aware of BTLOS and considering the WM-i27AS but also looking at NOBL, Light Bicycle, and Ibis... These will be going on a hardtail (Banshee Paradox) so was curious how compliant/stiff the BTLOS are.


I have the i24A rims with Sapim CXRAY spokes on 240 hubs. They are pretty stiff, not as compliant as XR391 aluminum rims. I like my BTLOS rims a lot on my XC bike (2019 Santa Cruz Blur).


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

I just received a BTLOS M-i30AS Premium wheelset. Took about 4 weeks from placing the order. I chose DT350 straight pull 28H hubs, CX-Ray spokes and aluminum nipples. They weigh in at 1484g. The finish inside and out is beautiful.

These are going on my wife's bike. I wanted a light wheelset to replace the Ibis S35 aluminum wheels on her bike now. These new wheels are 470g lighter.

First ride feedback from my wife. She can feel the weight difference. She feels like she can accelerate quicker and climb in one gear harder.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

awsome ! need feedbackk and pics !!!  

the weight is pretty close from what they say.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm thinking about ordering the i30as in standard (not sure the premium is worth the surcharge tbh). I'm building these up myself with sapim straightpull d-light and either dt350 or the ztto M1 to keep costs down.

Decisions decisions


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

How is ride quality--how stiff or compliant are they?

Did you all go with CF or Matte?



SoCal-Rider said:


> I just received a BTLOS M-i30AS Premium wheelset. Took about 4 weeks from placing the order. I chose DT350 straight pull 28H hubs, CX-Ray spokes and aluminum nipples. They weigh in at 1484g. The finish inside and out is beautiful.
> 
> These are going on my wife's bike. I wanted a light wheelset to replace the Ibis S35 aluminum wheels on her bike now. These new wheels are 470g lighter.
> 
> First ride feedback from my wife. She can feel the weight difference. She feels like she can accelerate quicker and climb in one gear harder.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Matthew_VA said:


> How is ride quality--how stiff or compliant are they?
> 
> Did you all go with CF or Matte?


My wife didn't mention anything about ride quality. She's not that sensitive to those kinds of things.

Matte finish on these.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Well, with all the positive reviews, I decided to order a pair as well. Went with the WM-i27AS with the below configuration. Was able to get free shipping, which is nice. Now just have to wait.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Well, bummer. Just got an email from Amy that they are out of stock of the DT240EXP J-bend hubs, only have straight pull hubs. Not sure I want to go with straight pull.



Matthew_VA said:


> Well, with all the positive reviews, I decided to order a pair as well. Went with the WM-i27AS with the below configuration. Was able to get free shipping, which is nice. Now just have to wait.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Matthew_VA said:


> Well, bummer. Just got an email from Amy that they are out of stock of the DT240EXP J-bend hubs, only have straight pull hubs... Not sure I want to go with straight pull.


Do they have the original DT240 hubs (non-EXP) in the J-bend variety? I agree I wouldn't go straight pull but I wouldn't hesitate to use the older version of the 240 hubs if they have those.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

I asked her so we'll see.



SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Do they have the original DT240 hubs (non-EXP) in the J-bend variety? I agree I wouldn't go straight pull but I wouldn't hesitate to use the older version of the 240 hubs if they have those.


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## SoCal-Rider (May 25, 2009)

Matthew_VA said:


> Well, bummer. Just got an email from Amy that they are out of stock of the DT240EXP J-bend hubs, only have straight pull hubs. Not sure I want to go with straight pull.


I had the same issue with 350 j-bend hubs not being available when I ordered last month. I went with the 350 straight pull. Long term we'll see if that was a wise choice.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

SoCal-Rider said:


> I had the same issue with 350 j-bend hubs not being available when I ordered last month. I went with the 350 straight pull. Long term we'll see if that was a wise choice.


Same for me when I ordered several months ago. Mine have been fine, though they are on a gravel bike.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

got my wheels in yesterday. i went with the i25as ones. I don't run anything over 2.4 and am a bit of a weight weenie. my old rims are 21mm so these will be a little bit of a step up. i did go with the 240 exp straight pull hubs because they are a tiny bit lighter. Visually they look really good. one spot on the same spot on both wheels that have a spot that is probably a normal part of the process but i can see the carbon weeve isn't the same. 

they came in at 1388 just like the calculator said on the website. I have the rim strip valves, and 2.35 barzo for the front and a 2.2 mezcal for the rear. hopefully i will get a chance to get them together and ride during the weekend. I have a bunch of projects going on right now so the wheels may have to take a back burner for a week or two.

is there any reason why you guys won't get a straight pull hub other than spoke availability? i plan on getting some extras now while i have time. i also read an interview with dt swiss that said the strength between the both is so very close that its not even really something to be concerned about.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

They offered me several spare spokes and nipples but my hang up is that with a straight pull hub you can only lace the spokes one way. Whereas with a J-bend you can do radial, 1-, 2-, or 3-cross to tailor the wheel's stiffness, ride quality, etc.



adumb said:


> got my wheels in yesterday. i went with the i25as ones. I don't run anything over 2.4 and am a bit of a weight weenie. my old rims are 21mm so these will be a little bit of a step up. i did go with the 240 exp straight pull hubs because they are a tiny bit lighter. Visually they look really good. one spot on the same spot on both wheels that have a spot that is probably a normal part of the process but i can see the carbon weeve isn't the same.
> 
> they came in at 1388 just like the calculator said on the website. I have the rim strip valves, and 2.35 barzo for the front and a 2.2 mezcal for the rear. hopefully i will get a chance to get them together and ride during the weekend. I have a bunch of projects going on right now so the wheels may have to take a back burner for a week or two.
> 
> is there any reason why you guys won't get a straight pull hub other than spoke availability? i plan on getting some extras now while i have time. i also read an interview with dt swiss that said the strength between the both is so very close that its not even really something to be concerned about.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Ugh...

They have the older 240s J-bend hub but only in 32hole. So options are:

1) 240 EXP 28H Straight pull

2) 240 EXP 32H J-bend - look likes it is only 40g more but more spokes increases stiffness, making wheel less compliant, right?

3) Only buy the BTLOS rims and get the spokes and 240EXP 28H J-Bend hubs here stateside and try to DIY build the wheelset.

Again, looking at the WM-i27AS for a XC configuration for my Banshee Paradox Hardtail. what do you all think is the best option?



SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Do they have the original DT240 hubs (non-EXP) in the J-bend variety? I agree I wouldn't go straight pull but I wouldn't hesitate to use the older version of the 240 hubs if they have those.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Just go with the straight pull. They are better in basically every way. I have 2 sets of BTLOS They built with dt 180 exp (which only come in Straight pull) And they have been great.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

Yes I don't see any advantage why you would go jbend especially at this point


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

EdSawyer said:


> Just go with the straight pull. They are better in basically every way. I have 2 sets of BTLOS They built with dt 180 exp (which only come in Straight pull) And they have been great.


I'm just curious what your basis for this statement is. I built one set of wheels from scratch using straight pull spokes and it was miserable keeping the spokes from turning. Granted, replacing an individual spoke on an already-built set of wheels shouldn't be a huge deal with the straight pulls, but IMO I would not say they are 'better in basically every way'.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> I'm just curious what your basis for this statement is. I built one set of wheels from scratch using straight pull spokes and it was miserable keeping the spokes from turning. Granted, replacing an individual spoke on an already-built set of wheels shouldn't be a huge deal with the straight pulls, but IMO I would not say they are 'better in basically every way'.


I forgot to mention that at this point I do agree with the recommendation to proceed with straight pull spokes using the 28H hubs. It makes more sense to get the build that you want. I just prefer J-bend spokes from a maintenance perspective.


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## acedeuce802 (Jun 30, 2017)

I used bladed spokes to build up my straight pull hubs, then there's a tool you can get, basically a chunk of plastic with slits in it to hold the spoke. I liked that you can load all the spokes in the hub and they all point to their proper hole, and replacing a spoke means you just pull it straight out without removing the cassette/rotor. Other than that, I don't see a difference.


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## conorthinks (Jul 20, 2020)

Matthew_VA said:


> Well, with all the positive reviews, I decided to order a pair as well. Went with the WM-i27AS with the below configuration. Was able to get free shipping, which is nice. Now just have to wait.


Look forward to hearing how they ride! I'm interested in the same wheels, thinking that the shallow profile might help them avoid feeling harsh.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

I'll certainly let you know once I get them. They said it would take about 3 weeks.



conorthinks said:


> Look forward to hearing how they ride! I'm interested in the same wheels, thinking that the shallow profile might help them avoid feeling harsh.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

There is a ton of discussion including BTLOS over at this other MTBR thread called (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? (my review is post #9248). I just received my i30A wheels and posted quite a bit of info on my experience and the wheels.

I find them to be stiffer than the original Stans aluminum wheels but also very responsive (meaning good ground contact/control) and they roll noticeably faster and have reduced pedal effort.


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## conorthinks (Jul 20, 2020)

I'm just about to order a set... does anyone know of any current discount codes?

edit: CNY2020 got me free shipping.


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## Ruturaj Hagawane (Mar 29, 2015)

Any idea why WM-i34A DH version is lighter than than WM-i30A AM version. If I choose WM-i34A AM version it's 134 gm lighter than WM-i30A AM version.


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## zerlingboy (Sep 9, 2020)

anyone of you who is waiting for their rims like me?
i ordered oct 2. but was chinsese holiday. no updates yet.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

I actually ordered mine the day before you. I was told 13 to 15 working days for to build and then I assume 4 to 5 days for shipping.



zerlingboy said:


> anyone of you who is waiting for their rims like me?
> i ordered oct 2. but was chinsese holiday. no updates yet.


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## amadkins (Jun 19, 2008)

zerlingboy said:


> anyone of you who is waiting for their rims like me?
> i ordered oct 2. but was chinsese holiday. no updates yet.


Ordered mine 9/28. Still waiting.


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## zerlingboy (Sep 9, 2020)

amadkins said:


> Ordered mine 9/28. Still waiting.


thanks for the replies guys. 
i think they resumed operation only after oct 8.
will provide feedback on mine once i have any updates.
good luck to us all.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Tuesday September 22nd here. Still no shipping details.

7 days ago I inquired on the status and got:

"We think we still need about 3-4 days to get them shipped, as we had 7 days off for Chinese National Day holidays recently."


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

if you guys email amy about your order she will get right back to you the next morning with the status. took me 3 weeks to get my wheels delivered to my house.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

06HokieMTB said:


> Tuesday September 22nd here. Still no shipping details.
> 
> 7 days ago I inquired on the status and got:
> 
> "We think we still need about 3-4 days to get them shipped, as we had 7 days off for Chinese National Day holidays recently."


My order production and shipping times were in line with their estimates. I also checked in and got a similar response of "about 3-4 days" and sure enough, about 3-4 days later I received tracking. Delivery took about a week or so after they shipped.

I am very pleased with everything about my BTLOS buying and product experience.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Great co. To deal with. I know I will be using them again.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Just received an email from Amy that my wheels will ship this week.



Matthew_VA said:


> I actually ordered mine the day before you. I was told 13 to 15 working days for to build and then I assume 4 to 5 days for shipping.


----------



## zerlingboy (Sep 9, 2020)

Matthew_VA said:


> Just received an email from Amy that my wheels will ship this week.


when did you order yours? she hasnt replied with me yet.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

markcm said:


> I am very pleased with everything about my BTLOS buying and product experience.


Whoops - I just realized that I ordered from CarbonFan and not BTLOS 

For all intents and purposes, it seems they sell the same rims (I got the new asymmetrical, 18.5mm deep i30mm 29er rims)... so maybe they both buy from the same factory and are simply re-sellers?


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Wheels have shipped! "will take between 5-25 days to be delivered. " hahaha!


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

Free shipping? I checked the mentioned code above " CNY2020" and it worked. Now that I am ready to purchase it doesn't. How often does BTLOS offer free shipping? Thanks.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Last year they had a Black Friday special for free shipping. My guess is they may do it again this year.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

BrewMaster said:


> I ordered a set of WM-i24A wheels built by BTLOS on December 28, they arrived January 20. These are for my XC race bike and I had them built as light as possible with DT 240S hubs, 28 hole, straight pull CX-Ray spokes, aluminum nipples in a UD matte finish on premium XC layup. I weight 180 lbs. Including shipping the set cost me $1030.
> 
> The wheelset came in spot on at the calculated weight of 1365 grams. I have about 600 miles on them so far and they are absolutely fantastic, true, and very fast. The other day I took a bad line through a rock garden and heard a loud bang so I thought I broke my front rim. I pinch flatted the Rekon Exo tire but there wasn't even a scratch on the rim. I'm very impressed.
> 
> ...


*

Karen would like to speak to your manager... NOW!

*This is such a D-bag move. If only you could see what the inside of your Blur frame looks like, then you'd really have something to cry about.


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## itsky (Jul 26, 2011)

Generally agree ^ 

There are cheepskates and then there is this.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

BrewMaster said:


> I won't lie, it took a lot of patience. At first, they wanted me to cut my old rims but I was honest and said I just wanted these as replacements should the originals fail. No need to waste a rim that's still working. The replacement rims each have 1 mold mark instead of 4, so I call that an improvement.


It took a lot of patience... on their part... to deal with a **** customer like you. Nice of you to praise their customer service after your persistence forced them to bend to your will. I'm both shocked and amazed that your santa cruz rims, which cost 4x as much for an off the shelf product, would have slightly better cosmetic finish quality on a part of the rim that will never even be visible after you tape them. Just to be clear, not only are you a **** customer, you're a scammer and a fu*king asshole.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> It took a lot of patience... on their part... to deal with a **** customer like you. Nice of you to praise their customer service after your persistence forced them to bend to your will. I'm both shocked and amazed that your santa cruz rims, which cost 4x as much for an off the shelf product, would have slightly better cosmetic finish quality on a part of the rim that will never even be visible after you tape them. Just to be clear, not only are you a **** customer, you're a scammer and a fu*king asshole.


Cool cool, going back over 5 months to find a reason to nuke this guy for maybe being an overly enthusiastic advocate for himself in dealing with a private company is completely normal. :eekster:

To the d-bag f'ing a-hole **** customer scammer dude's credit, he has since been actively promoting his satisfaction with both BTLOS's customer service, and the quality and performance of the wheelset he purchased from them. But yeah, let's burn him at the stake because BTLOS chose to send him a spare set of rims and earn a vocal and loyal customer.

A jokes a joke but you are bringing a level of aggressive retributional anger that is beyond the pale even by idiotic internet enthusiast forum standards. Check yourself.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Cool cool, going back over 5 months to find a reason to nuke this guy for maybe being an overly enthusiastic advocate for himself in dealing with a private company is completely normal. :eekster:
> 
> To the d-bag f'ing a-hole **** customer scammer dude's credit, he has since been actively promoting his satisfaction with both BTLOS's customer service, and the quality and performance of the wheelset he purchased from them. But yeah, let's burn him at the stake because BTLOS chose to send him a spare set of rims and earn a vocal and loyal customer.
> 
> A jokes a joke but you are bringing a level of aggressive retributional anger that is beyond the pale even by idiotic internet enthusiast forum standards. Check yourself.


I didn't go back five months "to find a reason" to nuke some random guy. I was reading through a thread that was of interest to me, and I stumbled upon his comments and thought they were worth responding to. Is there a statute of limitations on being a complete entitled brat and manipulating a company into giving you free stuff, after which time you're immune to criticism? I don't regret not mincing my words about it.


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Cool cool, going back over 5 months to find a reason to nuke this guy for maybe being an overly enthusiastic advocate for himself in dealing with a private company is completely normal. :eekster:


I disagree. I don't think this was being overly enthusiastic in advocation for oneself. It was being opportunistic and manipulative of a company that most likely isn't raking it in to the levels that other are and is literally just trying to please the costumer and have a good name. I think Brewmaster is implicitly aware of that, and that's what makes what he did pretty disingenuous. There was nothing wrong with the rims. He knew it. BTLOS knew it. Most everyone reading this knows it. And that puts out a message to other people with dubious scruples that they can basically get a 2 for 1 deal if they push the BTLOS around a little.



Velodonata said:


> To the d-bag f'ing a-hole **** customer scammer dude's credit, he has since been actively promoting his satisfaction with both BTLOS's customer service, and the quality and performance of the wheelset he purchased from them. But yeah, let's burn him at the stake because BTLOS chose to send him a spare set of rims and earn a vocal and loyal customer.


They didn't earn a vocal and loyal customer. They earned a liability. They pacified a noisy bearing with some grease, but the bearing came here and broadcast that he got over on them.

Now of course, he came here and 'spoke highly' of them, but that's just double talk. It's backhanded, it's disingenuous, it's duplicitous. (<doing my best Jacky Childs  ) and that you fall for that methodology is dubious itself.

Brewmaster screwed over BTLOS and then came here to brag about it, in WhiteKnight fashion. Do you think that they can seriously survive if more people do what he's done?? If you don't want cosmetic overlaps on the inside of our rim, buy more expensive rims. Period.



Velodonata said:


> A jokes a joke but you are bringing a level of aggressive retributional anger that is beyond the pale even by idiotic internet enthusiast forum standards. Check yourself.


It's a bit strong, but he still is right.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

jochribs said:


> I disagree. I don't think this was being overly enthusiastic in advocation for oneself. It was being opportunistic and manipulative of a company that most likely isn't raking it in to the levels that other are and is literally just trying to please the costumer and have a good name. I think Brewmaster is implicitly aware of that, and that's what makes what he did pretty disingenuous. There was nothing wrong with the rims. He knew it. BTLOS knew it. Most everyone reading this knows it. And that puts out a message to other people with dubious scruples that they can basically get a 2 for 1 deal if they push the BTLOS around a little.
> 
> They didn't earn a vocal and loyal customer. They earned a liability. They pacified a noisy bearing with some grease, but the bearing came here and broadcast that he got over on them.
> 
> ...


Well said.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jochribs said:


> I disagree. I don't think this was being overly enthusiastic in advocation for oneself. It was being opportunistic and manipulative of a company that most likely isn't raking it in to the levels that other are and is literally just trying to please the costumer and have a good name. I think Brewmaster is implicitly aware of that, and that's what makes what he did pretty disingenuous. There was nothing wrong with the rims. He knew it. BTLOS knew it. Most everyone reading this knows it. And that puts out a message to other people with dubious scruples that they can basically get a 2 for 1 deal if they push the BTLOS around a little.
> 
> They didn't earn a vocal and loyal customer. They earned a liability. They pacified a noisy bearing with some grease, but the bearing came here and broadcast that he got over on them.
> 
> ...


A bit strong? You encourage this behavior? GT87 is an angry headcase taking out his unrelated frustrations on 5 month old comments that are long settled.

If BTLOS had told Brewmaster to pound sand, he would have made a post about his dissatisfaction and we would have mocked him a bit for it and told him his wheels were fine. SOP for a forum like this. It was their choice to send him new rims, and it was probably the right decision for them even if there was nothing actually wrong with the original rims which is my take on it. The good will it earned has surely been more valuable than the conflict they avoided. I have seen these things play out from all sides. Customer service is a large part of my job and I have clients that range from individuals to international corporations. I have dealt with obviously irrational complaints, and seemingly legitimate customers representing their companies trying to run actual scams with less justification for large amounts of money. And I have been the customer trying to get satisfaction for a functional but imperfect part that didn't measure up to what I thought I paid for. We've all got our own take on what is acceptable, and this guy was called out for his actions 5 months ago in a civil way that gave him some room to learn instead of making gross assumptions about his character.

I mentioned my own experience when this was current, in this thread. Long ago I made a manufacturer jump through a hoop or two because I mistook a normal cosmetic anomaly from carbon production methods to be a potential flaw. I was worried about eating a faceful of stem from a broken bar, and the bars I had purchased didn't look like any of the previous carbon bars I had owned. They were understanding and accommodating to what was ultimately my own excessive caution. I was a loyal customer from long before and have remained one. I try not to be the squeaky wheel type customer if it can be avoided, however I know guys that are much more aggressive about getting what they want from customer service and they have every right to do so. There was no scam here, and while I'm not personally comfortable with how he handled it, I would rather give this guy the benefit of the doubt than eviscerate him because I have anger issues in the real world.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> I didn't go back five months "to find a reason" to nuke some random guy. I was reading through a thread that was of interest to me, and I stumbled upon his comments and thought they were worth responding to. Is there a statute of limitations on being a complete entitled brat and manipulating a company into giving you free stuff, after which time you're immune to criticism? I don't regret not mincing my words about it.


Aww man, I prefered your original reply, too bad you edited it, it really showed your true colors. You almost sound sane now, a thinly veiled kind of sane but still, much more reasonable. But no, there is no statute of limitations on interweb crimes, and we are all the witnesses, prosecutors, and judges. Or douchebags with anger management issues and no regrets.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Aww man, I prefered your original reply, too bad you edited it, it really showed your true colors. You almost sound sane now, a thinly veiled kind of sane but still, much more reasonable. But no, there is no statute of limitations on interweb crimes, and we are all the witnesses, prosecutors, and judges. Or douchebags with anger management issues and no regrets.


Well, if you preferred my original reply, you can feel free to take it to heart. Not sure why you feel the need to constantly reply to my comments and make assessments about my perceived anger issues and whether my family hates me, etc. Nothing more cowardly than someone that makes passive aggressive attacks while hiding behind a thin veil of civility.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> A bit strong? *You encourage this behavior?* GT87 is an angry headcase taking out his unrelated frustrations on 5 month old comments that are long settled.
> 
> If BTLOS had told Brewmaster to pound sand, he would have made a post about his dissatisfaction and we would have mocked him a bit for it and told him his wheels were fine. SOP for a forum like this. It was their choice to send him new rims, and it was probably the right decision for them even if there was nothing actually wrong with the original rims which is my take on it. The good will it earned has surely been more valuable than the conflict they avoided. I have seen these things play out from all sides. Customer service is a large part of my job and I have clients that range from individuals to international corporations. I have dealt with obviously irrational complaints, and seemingly legitimate customers representing their companies trying to run actual scams with less justification for large amounts of money. And I have been the customer trying to get satisfaction for a functional but imperfect part that didn't measure up to what I thought I paid for. We've all got our own take on what is acceptable, and this guy was called out for his actions 5 months ago in a civil way that gave him some room to learn instead of making gross assumptions about his character.
> 
> I mentioned my own experience when this was current, in this thread. Long ago I made a manufacturer jump through a hoop or two because I mistook a normal cosmetic anomaly from carbon production methods to be a potential flaw. I was worried about eating a faceful of stem from a broken bar, and the bars I had purchased didn't look like any of the previous carbon bars I had owned. They were understanding and accommodating to what was ultimately my own excessive caution. I was a loyal customer from long before and have remained one. I try not to be the squeaky wheel type customer if it can be avoided, however I know guys that are much more aggressive about getting what they want from customer service and they have every right to do so. There was no scam here, and while I'm not personally comfortable with how he handled it, I would rather give this guy the benefit of the doubt than eviscerate him because I have anger issues in the real world.


And you encourage his entitled behavior? Your experience with your handlebar is different. You had a legitimate concern over what you perceived as a safety issue. You were misinformed, but you didn't have any malicious intent, and when you realized that you were being overly cautious you showed humility, learned from the experience, and did the right thing by returning the bar instead of capitalizing on the situation even when it would have been very easy to do so. You also showed gratitude toward the company, rather than a sense of entitlement.

They didn't owe him ****. They offered a partial refund, and an extended warranty, which is more than he deserved, but even that wasn't enough. He exercised "patience" (which means he was a relentless nag) until they offered to replace the rims... truly above and beyond customer service. But even that wasn't enough.... he showed that he wasn't actually concerned about the quality of the rims by refusing to destroy the old ones, and he persisted until they said fine, enjoy your free rims, sir. They provided him a good product for a very fair price, did nothing wrong, and still lost money on the deal. They'd be far better off without him as a customer. This guy was a scumbag.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> Well, if you preferred my original reply, you can feel free to take it to heart. Not sure why you feel the need to constantly reply to my comments and make assessments about my perceived anger issues and whether my family hates me, etc. Nothing more cowardly than someone that makes passive aggressive attacks while hiding behind a thin veil of civility.


Projection much? Oh wait, that's your line. So just go balls out when attacking people through your keyboard for anything that gets your jimmies rustled, is that your advice? That would be the uncowardly way to do it? What did you say, "_I don't regret not mincing my words about it_?" You do realize, that's just an awkward way of saying you enjoy being an a-hole.

But to your paranoia, yeah, so weird how I would respond to a comment that quoted a reply to a previous comment of mine, in a thread that I follow because I used it to help decide to purchase BTLOS rims.

I would have called out anybody for being such a ludicrous jerkoff in any thread I participate in, I agree that it is quite an odd coincidence that it is you again.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Projection much? Oh wait, that's your line. So just go balls out when attacking people through your keyboard for anything that gets your jimmies rustled, is that your advice? That would be the uncowardly way to do it? What did you say, "_I don't regret not mincing my words about it_?" You do realize, that's just an awkward way of saying you enjoy being an a-hole.
> 
> But to your paranoia, yeah, so weird how I would respond to a comment that quoted a reply to a previous comment of mine, in a thread that I follow because I used it to help decide to purchase BTLOS rims.
> 
> I would have called out anybody for being such a ludicrous jerkoff in any thread I participate in, I agree that it is quite an odd coincidence that it is you again.


Yeah, I'm sure you would have called out anyone for being a ludicrous jerkoff by calling out someone else for being a ludicrous jerkoff. Another job well done by the snakeboi.


----------



## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> Yeah, I'm sure you would have called out anyone for being a ludicrous jerkoff by calling out someone else for being a ludicrous jerkoff. Another job well done by the snakeboi.


Dude, you are the only one being called out. The truth hurts. Does it really bother you that I am not more polite about it? You should try to not take things so personally, you are working at a level of anger and aggression would be inappropriate on 4chan. It's certainly not needed here and it contributes nothing positive to the conversations.

But please, please go on with your assumptions about this malicious, entitled, relentless nag of a scumbag guy for his mortal sin of posting in the BTLOS thread about his experience with the BTLOS wheelset he purchased and your completely normal :thumbsup: response to his customer service experience from 5 months ago.


----------



## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Dude, you are the only one being called out. The truth hurts. Does it really bother you that I am not more polite about it? You should try to not take things so personally, you are working at a level of anger and aggression would be inappropriate on 4chan. It's certainly not needed here and it contributes nothing positive to the conversations.
> 
> But please, please go on with your assumptions about this malicious, entitled, relentless nag of a scumbag guy for his mortal sin of posting in the BTLOS thread about his experience with the BTLOS wheelset he purchased and your completely normal :thumbsup: response to his customer service experience from 5 months ago.


Yeah, thanks for doing a great public service by stepping in to politely put me in my place once again. Feel better? Ok, anything else?

Never had to resort to the ignore feature before, but you contribute nothing and your constant need to feel validated and win arguments without actually listening to what's being said is just pathetic. See ya, loser


----------



## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> A bit strong? You encourage this behavior? GT87 is an angry headcase taking out his unrelated frustrations on 5 month old comments that are long settled.
> 
> If BTLOS had told Brewmaster to pound sand, he would have made a post about his dissatisfaction and we would have mocked him a bit for it and told him his wheels were fine. SOP for a forum like this. It was their choice to send him new rims, and it was probably the right decision for them even if there was nothing actually wrong with the original rims which is my take on it. The good will it earned has surely been more valuable than the conflict they avoided. I have seen these things play out from all sides. Customer service is a large part of my job and I have clients that range from individuals to international corporations. I have dealt with obviously irrational complaints, and seemingly legitimate customers representing their companies trying to run actual scams with less justification for large amounts of money. And I have been the customer trying to get satisfaction for a functional but imperfect part that didn't measure up to what I thought I paid for. We've all got our own take on what is acceptable, and this guy was called out for his actions 5 months ago in a civil way that gave him some room to learn instead of making gross assumptions about his character.
> 
> I mentioned my own experience when this was current, in this thread. Long ago I made a manufacturer jump through a hoop or two because I mistook a normal cosmetic anomaly from carbon production methods to be a potential flaw. I was worried about eating a faceful of stem from a broken bar, and the bars I had purchased didn't look like any of the previous carbon bars I had owned. They were understanding and accommodating to what was ultimately my own excessive caution. I was a loyal customer from long before and have remained one. I try not to be the squeaky wheel type customer if it can be avoided, however I know guys that are much more aggressive about getting what they want from customer service and they have every right to do so. There was no scam here, and while I'm not personally comfortable with how he handled it, I would rather give this guy the benefit of the doubt than eviscerate him because I have anger issues in the real world.


Again, disagree. The customer isn't always right, and the same scope of your question towards me about encouraging GT's behavior could be said of you excusing away ad nauseam the behavior of strong-arming a meager company to basically give you MORE product because it doesn't look like it would if it cost what you DIDN"T want to pay for in the first place.

That's the issue here. Let's not splice hairs over whether or not the topic has been brought back up and in what manner. The rims have more overlaps/seams because they are costing less to produce, thus the deal we all get on them. That they made him a set of rims to pacify him that had less visible seams is not withstanding. If they made rims that had less seams as a normal procedure, they would cost more. Period. So, Brewmaster bought rims *knowingly* that cost less but had equal performance. He then complained about what he _*knowingly*_ bought, and rather than respect the company and destroy the rims _*that didn't meet his dubious quality standards*_ ( I say dubious standards because I highly doubt he has a clue) he says give me more, *custom made for me, just in case these break.* And they're not going to break unless he smashes into something like a clod, and that will have nothing to do with the cosmetic seams.

Nope, no amount of conjecture about clients and international corps puts on enough lipstick to make this pig of a premise even remotely attractive. It is an argument that is circling the drain of the biggest solids disposal in your house, if you get my drift. The more people do what you're mansplaining (which is tantamount to encouraging frankly) the more these rims are going to cost.

So I say it again, if you want something that is the very same cosmetically as what you didn't want to pay for in the first place (yet works every bit as well) then shut up, and buy that thing that you were too cheap and entitled to buy in the first place, rather than manipulate the producer to give you more than twice what you paid for. (And that's essentially what happened here, because the rims they made him cost significantly more to make than the ones that he paid for, that _*A'RENT*_ going to break. And then definitely don't come on a public forum and humble-brag about it like some sort of White Knight narcissist.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Dude...[snip]... you are working at a level of anger and aggression would be inappropriate on 4chan.
> 
> But please, please go on with your assumptions about this malicious, entitled, relentless nag of a scumbag guy for his mortal sin of posting in the BTLOS thread about his experience with the BTLOS wheelset he purchased and your completely normal :thumbsup: response to his customer service experience from 5 months ago.


This is a serious exaggeration, and the sarcasm is very misplaced in regards to GT in this discussion.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

GT87 said:


> And you encourage his entitled behavior? Your experience with your handlebar is different. You had a legitimate concern over what you perceived as a safety issue. You were misinformed, but you didn't have any malicious intent, and when you realized that you were being overly cautious you showed humility, learned from the experience, and did the right thing by returning the bar instead of capitalizing on the situation even when it would have been very easy to do so. You also showed gratitude toward the company, rather than a sense of entitlement.
> 
> They didn't owe him ****. They offered a partial refund, and an extended warranty, which is more than he deserved, but even that wasn't enough. He exercised "patience" (which means he was a relentless nag) until they offered to replace the rims... truly above and beyond customer service. But even that wasn't enough.... he showed that he wasn't actually concerned about the quality of the rims by refusing to destroy the old ones, and he persisted until they said fine, enjoy your free rims, sir. They provided him a good product for a very fair price, did nothing wrong, and still lost money on the deal. They'd be far better off without him as a customer. This guy was a scumbag.


Spot on, GT.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jochribs said:


> This is a serious exaggeration, and the sarcasm is very misplaced in regards to GT in this discussion.


It's not though, GT87 went out of his way to be nasty, he used malicious, entitled, relentless nag, and scumbag to describe the guy, in addition to previously referring to him as a d-bag, a f**king a-hole, a **** customer and a scammer. This is fairly typical for him on MTBR. He frequently takes differences of opinions and tries to make them ugly personal spats. It's weird. He goes the extra mile to try and get a rise out of people, just in my own experience in other threads he has tried to get to me by mocking my epic blog and rad avatar, and now he is leaving insults in my rep comments. He is becoming notorious for this behavior in backchannel conversations. He's like one of those guys that will scour a FB profile to try and find a way to personally hurt someone in a public group discussion thread.

I don't know the first thing about this Brewmaster guy, and hell maybe all that is true. But it takes some wild and dangerous assumptions to say it based on a couple of forum posts. Making things personal with these kinds of insults never takes a conversation anywhere good, and taking things personally doesn't either. Obviously sometimes things get heated and people say things they may later regret, but if everyone strived to not be the one to take things to that level then this would be a better place to be bike dorks.

Even with a limited amount of information everybody is entitled to their opinion, but serving it up with unprovoked vile personal attacks should never be acceptable. I wasn't a fan of what Brewmaster did but I will always choose to give someone the benefit of the doubt before I assume the absolute worst about them. If they are truly a **** person it will be clear soon enough. And I don't see anything in his posts to justify the way these opinions are being expressed by GT87, or you by your approval. It's easy to lose perspective and we don't know how the situation went down or the details of what led to it.

Further assuming that everybody has the same expectations of a purchase is also a bad idea. I don't know anybody that buys BTLOS or LB rims expecting mediocre quality, I have purchased several sets because they are a good value way to get what have been high quality and reliable rims in my experience. I see it as a significant tradeoff of convenience, support and marketing for better pricing on equal quality to other similar rims from the companies that import them and sell them at retail in a more traditional way.

Without anything close to evidence or proof otherwise, from what Brewmaster has posted it is likely that he has become a great ambassador for BTLOS and helped them sell some rims and wheels. To also assume that he has inspired a raft of scammers intent on conning poor BTLOS out of more rims is depressingly cynical.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Dang, I peeked... just couldn't help myself. So, now you're having backchannel convos about me? That's precious! I'm living rent free in your head bro, and I don't know how I even got there, haha. 

Everything is projection with you... you're like a page straight out of the playbook of the shitstain #45. And then you try to paint yourself as a victim... pathetic. I hope your wounds can heal :smallviolin:


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> Dang, I peaked... just couldn't help myself. So, now you're having backchannel convos about me? That's precious! I'm living rent free in your head bro, and I don't know how I even got there, haha.
> 
> Everything is projection with you... you're like a page straight out of the playbook of the shitstain #45. And then you try to paint yourself as a victim... pathetic. I hope your wounds can heal :smallviolin:


Politics, really? The final frontier of ultimate trollery, of course you went there. It really is the ridiculous assumptions that are your primary problem, well besides the anger and self loathing. You invariably assume the worst about everybody else and then lash out at them for being what you hate in yourself. It's your projection thing again, pathetic victim? You don't say! 

Yes, congrats, you are a major source of conversation, in that a few people have made side comments like "WTF that GT87 dude, yikes lolz", it's kinda low rent but hey.

I mean, you're the one sending angry rep messages and poking around people's profiles looking for soft spots, but you be you.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I was out on a ride with the fam.



Velodonata said:


> It's not though, GT87 went out of his way to be nasty, he used malicious, entitled, relentless nag, and scumbag to describe the guy, in addition to previously referring to him as a d-bag, a f**king a-hole, a **** customer and a scammer. This is fairly typical for him on MTBR. He frequently takes differences of opinions and tries to make them ugly personal spats. It's weird. He goes the extra mile to try and get a rise out of people, just in my own experience in other threads he has tried to get to me by mocking my epic blog and rad avatar, and now he is leaving insults in my rep comments. He is becoming notorious for this behavior in backchannel conversations. He's like one of those guys that will scour a FB profile to try and find a way to personally hurt someone in a public group discussion thread.


Actually Velo, the comment of yours that I quoted was pure sarcasm, and exaggeration. And honestly, as far as I am concerned your character summation of GT doesn't necessarily hold water with me. One, I haven't seen any of what you are stating about him. Two, if he was that much of a prick, I'd imagine he'd have a red chiclet or two next to his name, of which he does not. Did he come off a bit strong about the topic we are now discussing? Yeah, you could say that. Did he have his sensibilities of being honest and fair offended by Brewmasters manipulations? I'd bet your ass that he did, because I certainly did as well, when I read Brewmasters transparent self-serving post. If it doesn't offend your sensibilities, you might want to take a long hard look in the mirror and stop kicking the can of _'me first' entitlement_ down the road. (Which, no offense, really seems like what you are doing with your giving Brewmaster the benefit of the doubt. Say what you will about GT's delivery, at least he's not trying to manipulate a company into giving him more than twice what he paid for..._*or mansplain the manipulation on behalf of someone else. *_



Velodonata said:


> I don't know the first thing about this Brewmaster guy, and hell maybe all that is true. But it takes some wild and dangerous assumptions to say it based on a couple of forum posts. Making things personal with these kinds of insults never takes a conversation anywhere good, and taking things personally doesn't either. Obviously sometimes things get heated and people say things they may later regret, but if everyone strived to not be the one to take things to that level then this would be a better place to be bike dorks.


Actually, it doesn't take "wild and dangerous assumtions" based on a couple forum posts. Those couple of forum posts illustrated, in great detail, enough information to make the judgements that GT made. GT isn't misunderstanding anything. Again, his knee-jerk reaction might have been a bit strong in vocabulary, but in substance, it is spot on. And that's the point. Say, "Easy there Tanto" and move on. Don't defend the credibility of someone that has laid out every morsel of information that you could possibly need that they are a duplicitously selfish, while attacking the messenger because you don't like how they delivered the much deserved rebuke.



Velodonata said:


> Even with a limited amount of information everybody is entitled to their opinion, but serving it up with unprovoked vile personal attacks should never be acceptable. I wasn't a fan of what Brewmaster did but I will always choose to give someone the benefit of the doubt before I assume the absolute worst about them. If they are truly a **** person it will be clear soon enough. And I don't see anything in his posts to justify the way these opinions are being expressed by GT87, or you by your approval. It's easy to lose perspective and we don't know how the situation went down or the details of what led to it.


There is no benefit of the doubt warranted. What Brewmaster did was shitty. Period. Is he going to steal from your grandmother? Probably not. Do you need to hide your daughter from him?? Again, probably not. But that doesn't mean that what he did here, (and described it in great detail as if he is just 'one of the guys' and kicking that info along like he's some introspective good guy) is worthy of some sort of olive branch, unless that branch is used for whipping the back of his legs (that's a tongue in cheek statement, don't dare warp it) The only person in respect to this debate that has lost perspective is you apparently. I, for the life of me, can not understand how you can excuse what Brewmaster did. You need to take a look in the mirror if this is the sort of behavior that you cow-tow to in your professional world. **** covered, slippery slope if you ask me, and on a multitude of levels.



Velodonata said:


> Further assuming that everybody has the same expectations of a purchase is also a bad idea. I don't know anybody that buys BTLOS or LB rims expecting mediocre quality, I have purchased several sets because they are a good value way to get what have been high quality and reliable rims in my experience. I see it as a significant tradeoff of convenience, support and marketing for better pricing on equal quality to other similar rims from the companies that import them and sell them at retail in a more traditional way.


Dear god, this one takes the cake. Here you go, *reinventing the narrative of what people are buying and expecting* from BTLOS. I'll state emphatically, that everyone understands what they are purchasing from BTLOS...and it is not **** product, but it isn't top level finish either. *HENCE THE PRICE, AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS VERY THREAD*. They aren't mediocre in the least. They have more seams/laps in the bead channel, because it costs less to use the shorter pieces in the lay-up. Period. Again, that thing about the price, and the purpose of this thread. Playing stupid, and saying "no one expects mediocrity" is disingenuous at best, and straight up deceitful at worst. You get nothing for free, but with BTLOS, Light Bicylcle, et al...you are coming pretty damned close considering that they are delivering product that often times is out-performing rims that have big shot company names on them, and making good on the failures/defects (without the horseshit that the big name companies, that are making a much larger margin just because their name is on it, tend to put the customer through.) Keep up this self-serving crap where you want a rim that looks like utter perfection (where only the inside of the tire and the sealant are ever going to see, and you're gonna greed yourself straight TF out of affordable carbon rims. Full Effing Stop. As you said to GT earlier on, _check yourself._



Velodonata said:


> Without anything close to evidence or proof otherwise, from what Brewmaster has posted it is likely that he has become a great ambassador for BTLOS and helped them sell some rims and wheels. To also assume that he has inspired a raft of scammers intent on conning poor BTLOS out of more rims is depressingly cynical.


Your previous paragraph smelled enough like a flaming bag of dog excrement left on your front porch, and then smeared into your carpet...this one is of the human variety.

He is not an ambassador, and certainly not a great one. He has laid an 'instructable' on how to screw over the company for their defect'less product and get more of it, custom at that, for free. And it's not cynical to say that. That you are a person that works in the professional world and delivers such soul-ridden tripe should not be surprising. What he did was manipulate BTLOS, and then come here and show off that he did it. He knows exactly what he did. And I surmise that you do too. Don't defend him.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Politics, really? The final frontier of ultimate trollery, of course you went there. It really is the ridiculous assumptions that are your primary problem, well besides the anger and self loathing. You invariably assume the worst about everybody else and then lash out at them for being what you hate in yourself. It's your projection thing again, pathetic victim? You don't say!
> 
> Yes, congrats, you are a major source of conversation, in that a few people have made side comments like "WTF that GT87 dude, yikes lolz", it's kinda low rent but hey.
> 
> I mean, you're the one sending angry rep messages and poking around people's profiles looking for soft spots, but you be you.


Oh for godsakes dude, put a cork in it, with your psycho-babble. And stop patting yourself on the back for being an 'inside guy' here. That really is not anything to be proud of.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

jochribs said:


> Oh for godsakes dude, put a cork in it, with your psycho-babble. And stop patting yourself on the back for being an 'inside guy' here. That really is not anything to be proud of.


Dang, the ignore button doesn't hide the quotes, lol... oh well. Low rent in his head indeed.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

GT87 said:


> Dang, the ignore button doesn't hide the quotes, lol... oh well. Low rent in his head indeed.


Sorry about that buddy.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jochribs said:


> I was out on a ride with the fam.
> ...
> Your previous paragraph smelled enough like a flaming bag of dog excrement left on your front porch, and then smeared into your carpet...this one is of the human variety.


Wow, this is really special.  I am glad I could be a part of you and GT87 finding each other, everybody should be so fortunate to bond with their online spirit doppelgänger. I do hope both of you guys are ineligible for jury duty, otherwise, ummm, good talk. :skep:


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Wow, this is really special.  I am glad I could be a part of you and GT87 finding each other, everybody should be so fortunate to bond with their online spirit doppelgänger. I do hope both of you guys are ineligible for jury duty, otherwise, ummm, good talk. :skep:


A man that resorts to sorority-esque insults and wit-iscisms, such as what you just did right here, is not really much of a man.

Apparently you've run out of solid commentary, and this is what you have resorted to. Didn't take too long.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Snakeboi strikes again


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

jochribs said:


> A man that resorts to sorority-esque insults and wit-iscisms, such as what you just did right here, is not really much of a man.
> 
> Apparently you've run out of solid commentary, and this is what you have resorted to. Didn't take too long.


Woe to my manhood! I will stand by my commentary, but fair enough. I'll take solace in the sorority-esque and you guys are welcome to each others charmingly crass company and GT87's coloring book.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Woe to my manhood! I will stand by my commentary, but fair enough. I'll take solace in the sorority-esque and you guys are welcome to each others charmingly crass company and GT87's coloring book.


GT87, you have coloring books?!! I'll PM you my number.

Velo, you're just getting more and more immature. You've got nothing of value to say. Should I add an emoji for emphasis? We are men/adults here, right?


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

jochribs said:


> GT87, you have coloring books?!! I'll PM you my number.
> 
> Velo, you're just getting more and more immature. You've got nothing of value to say. Should I add an emoji for emphasis? We are men/adults here, right?


Hell ya bro, I got coloring books and several crayons. Let's get together and color inside the lines sometime. Snakeboi isn't invited on account of his tantrums.... and he pooped his pants last time.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Looks like this thread is going down the path of that horrible EXT Era thread. Can we please stop??

On topic with the thread, I am still loving my now almost two year old BTLOS wheels and would certainly buy again from them in the future. Their customer service is top notch to boot. ‘Nuff said...


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Looks like this thread is going down the path of that horrible EXT Era thread. Can we please stop??
> 
> On topic with the thread, I am still loving my now almost two year old BTLOS wheels and would certainly buy again from them in the future. Their customer service is top notch to boot. 'Nuff said...


Yes, very much like that thread. And if you look at that thread from the very beginning, you will find the same guy attacking people for no good reason, instead of engaging in civilized conversation. From the 10th comment- "Yeah, no ****. Jeez dude, **** off." And for as much as it is complained about certain people and certain products being mentioned, the first time the Mezzer was brought into that thread was by the same guy, two comments later. And then he replied to a comment that wasn't addressed to him with- "Dude, you suck." It doesn't get any better from there.

I know that trolls should be starved but I don't think it is that simple with him, he apparently enjoys the attention but he is not just a basic troll. He is clearly a serious participant too, when he is not dishing uncalled for insults he sometimes has something useful to say. He just has a rather churlish way of expressing himself. And I get the feeling that if he never got called out he would just assume it's OK and keep being a dick in every thread. So he tries to be nasty, but maybe it will sink in at some point? Or maybe not. Yeah, it's messy and annoying and I know what they say about disagreements with pigs, but it's also hard to ignore. For this thread, I will end it here.

And in a desperate grasp for relevancy to the topic, my BTLOS rims have proven to be excellent. I laced M-i29A rims to Onyx Classics with Berd spokes and it is a fantastic wheelset. Very nicely manufactured, fairly priced and I agree that they have excellent customer service. The shipping time is really the only significant compromise to me, and that's only a problem if you need them in a hurry.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Yes, very much like that thread. And if you look at that thread from the very beginning, you will find the same guy attacking people for no good reason, instead of engaging in civilized conversation. From the 10th comment- "Yeah, no ****. Jeez dude, **** off." And for as much as it is complained about certain people and certain products being mentioned, the first time the Mezzer was brought into that thread was by the same guy, two comments later. And then he replied to a comment that wasn't addressed to him with- "Dude, you suck." It doesn't get any better from there.
> 
> I know that trolls should be starved but I don't think it is that simple with him, he apparently enjoys the attention but he is not just a basic troll. He is clearly a serious participant too, when he is not dishing uncalled for insults he sometimes has something useful to say. He just has a rather churlish way of expressing himself. And I get the feeling that if he never got called out he would just assume it's OK and keep being a dick in every thread. So he tries to be nasty, but maybe it will sink in at some point? Or maybe not. Yeah, it's messy and annoying and I know what they say about disagreements with pigs, but it's also hard to ignore. For this thread, I will end it here.
> 
> And in a desperate grasp for relevancy to the topic, my BTLOS rims have proven to be excellent. I laced M-i29A rims to Onyx Classics with Berd spokes and it is a fantastic wheelset. Very nicely manufactured, fairly priced and I agree that they have excellent customer service. The shipping time is really the only significant compromise to me, and that's only a problem if you need them in a hurry.


Look dude, you don't like me or the way I express myself. The feeling is mutual. It'd be great if you could try to let this weird obsession with me go instead of continuing to harass me every time you see me participate in a different thread.

Me being the type of guy that would try to dig up dirt on your facebook or whatever you were accusing me of, went as far as mocking your lame snake avatar and your even lamer blog, both of which are visible every time you make a post. Yet now you go and dig through other threads to try to dig up old posts of mine. I'll stand behind those statements too, rude and crass as they may be. You've accused me of making it weirdly personal to try to hurt people (projection, once again) when you repeatedly say really weird baseless **** about my family hating me, my apparent self-loathing, blah-blah, etc.

You frequently make toxic, passive-aggressive, and condescending posts, and then you freak out when you're met with overt opposition. In this very thread jochribs started out by trying to engage you in discussion by disagreeing civilly. But you weren't interested in a conversation, it just devolves into this ridiculous back and forth where you try to win an argument in your own mind by engaging in the same childish bullshit that you're shamelessly and hypocritically accusing others of. And then eventually the reality starts to set in, that no matter how hard you try, or how many times you try to have the last word with another insulting post, that you're just not that good at playing this childish game and that you're not getting under anyones skin with your abuse tactics like you had hoped, and you turn it around and play the victim like you did again right here. So, maybe just go fu*k yourself, sir.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

wtf where are the moderator to clean all this ****. digging up a 5month post to whine about while advertising it. gg boy.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

choan said:


> wtf where are the moderator to clean all this ****. digging up a 5month post to whine about while advertising it. gg boy.


Whatever, scamming BTLOS like that was completely unacceptable. Sorry that you don't deem my response to it to be timely enough.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> Look dude, you don't like me or the way I express myself. The feeling is mutual. It'd be great if you could try to let this weird obsession with me go instead of continuing to harass me every time you see me participate in a different thread.
> 
> Me being the type of guy that would try to dig up dirt on your facebook or whatever you were accusing me of, went as far as mocking your lame snake avatar and your even lamer blog, both of which are visible every time you make a post. Yet now you go and dig through other threads to try to dig up old posts of mine. I'll stand behind those statements too, rude and crass as they may be. You've accused me of making it weirdly personal to try to hurt people (projection, once again) when you repeatedly say really weird baseless **** about my family hating me, my apparent self-loathing, blah-blah, etc.
> 
> You frequently make toxic, passive-aggressive, and condescending posts, and then you freak out when you're met with overt opposition. In this very thread jochribs started out by trying to engage you in discussion by disagreeing civilly. But you weren't interested in a conversation, it just devolves into this ridiculous back and forth where you try to win an argument in your own mind by engaging in the same childish bullshit that you're shamelessly and hypocritically accusing others of. And then eventually the reality starts to set in, that no matter how hard you try, or how many times you try to have the last word with another insulting post, that you're just not that good at playing this childish game and that you're not getting under anyones skin with your abuse tactics like you had hoped, and you turn it around and play the victim like you did again right here. So, maybe just go fu*k yourself, sir.


C'mon man, you said I was on your ignore list. I would really like to let this go but you keep coming back with your alternate reality version of this nonsense, cry projection and then double down on being a dick. You are strangely sensitive for slinging so much bile. I see you on my profile page visitor list, I see your little rep comment insult, you give that angry creeper vibe, but I certainly don't have to dig out your posts. I can't avoid them. Those were page one of a thread that I was participating in from the start. Don't you remember asking me "How do those Dougal farts taste?" It was a few posts before you told another guy to "F*ck off" and "use your ****ing brain" because he questioned a Pinkbike review. I'm definitely not seeking you out, you are unfortunately hard to miss.

I thought I was having a normal conversation with your new friend, however I clearly misjudged him because once he took the conversation to the "flaming bag of ... excrement" level, well it all went downhill from there at his doing. Just read it. Lordy, you guys sure bonded quickly over this dogpile shitshow.

Of course you and your ilk are free to continue to be dicks, and I have zero f**ks to give for whatever you think or say about me, but this is a fairly loosely moderated forum and I'm not going to ignore your petty bullying behavior attacking anyone you don't fancy with immediate unprovoked profanity and personal insults. You won't find any examples of me starting any of this nonsense, but again, I'm not going to ignore it. It sucks and it screws up the forum for everybody that takes it somewhat seriously as a resource for the hobby we all share.

And finally, to everyone else, I am sorry this keeps going. I am done with further polluting this otherwise useful thread. The last word is yours, GT87 or jochribs.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> C'mon man, you said I was on your ignore list. I would really like to let this go but you keep coming back with your alternate reality version of this nonsense, cry projection and then double down on being a dick. You are strangely sensitive for slinging so much bile. I see you on my profile page visitor list, I see your little rep comment insult, you give that angry creeper vibe, but I certainly don't have to dig out your posts. I can't avoid them. Those were page one of a thread that I was participating in from the start. Don't you remember asking me "How do those Dougal farts taste?" It was a few posts before you told another guy to "F*ck off" and "use your ****ing brain" because he questioned a Pinkbike review. I'm definitely not seeking you out, you are unfortunately hard to miss.
> 
> I thought I was having a normal conversation with your new friend, however I clearly misjudged him because once he took the conversation to the "flaming bag of ... excrement" level, well it all went downhill from there at his doing. Just read it. Lordy, you guys sure bonded quickly over this dogpile shitshow.
> 
> ...


:cryin::smallviolin:

You had no solid argument to justify the manipulative way that brewmaster exploited a business for his own personal gain, so you deflected and made it about me. And you posture as some kind of white-knight defender of internet forum decency and civility. Your BS is transparent. Please stop clogging up these threads with your silly drama.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

It isn't a scam if his complaints weren't misrepresented. It sounds like BTLOS just wanted him to be happy, and I agree that the "defects" weren't really defects. Usually, new companies will make these concessions to form a reputation for customer service, then later take a harder line with whiners like him.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

TylerVernon said:


> It isn't a scam if his complaints weren't misrepresented. It sounds like BTLOS just wanted him to be happy, and I agree that the "defects" weren't really defects. Usually, new companies will make these concessions to form a reputation for customer service, then later take a harder line with whiners like him.


Ok, maybe the term scam is a bit of a stretch... i'll give you that. It implies premeditation. I think it was probably just opportunistic.

If he truly thought they were defects, he'd be incorrect about that, but I'd feel differently about the situation. The fact that he pressed on to not return or destroy the original rims once he was offered replacements, says to me that he just wanted more stuff for free.

I understand why btlos gave in to his coercion. They really had no choice. They don't have a strong english speaking marketing presence (part of why they're such a bargain) and would be very vulnerable to negative reviews on a site like this. And paypal or credit cards are never going to side with a chinese seller in the case of a dispute. The buyer is in a position of power in this relationship and persistent coercion until you've milked them for double what you paid for over a non-issue is an abuse of that power and an asshole move, imo.

Whether or not he had nice things to say about their customer service after the fact is barely relevant. If I kicked a puppy for no reason I doubt you'd excuse that behavior if I made a big show out of how sweet the puppy is afterwards.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

GT87 said:


> Whether or not he had nice things to say about their customer service after the fact is barely relevant. If I kicked a puppy for no reason I doubt you'd excuse that behavior if I made a big show out of how sweet the puppy is afterwards.


Depends if the puppy tried to "negotiate" more free stuff without a good reason.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

006_007 said:


> Depends if the puppy tried to "negotiate" more free stuff without a good reason.


Maybe it wasn't a great analogy, but BM was the kicker and btlos was the puppy. If you kick a puppy and then shower it with positive praise, that doesn't change the fact that you just kicked it.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

GT87 said:


> Maybe it wasn't a great analogy, but BM was the kicker and btlos was the puppy. If you kick a puppy and then shower it with positive praise, that doesn't change the fact that you just kicked it.


Thanks for clarifying that. With the shitshow of the last 20 or so posts I didn't understand what was going on.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

006_007 said:


> Thanks for clarifying that. With the shitshow of the last 20 or so posts I didn't understand what was going on.


Yeah, the snakeboi had a bit of a tantrum


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> The buyer is in a position of power in this relationship and persistent coercion until you've milked them for double what you paid for over a non-issue is an abuse of that power and an asshole move, imo.


He purchased a complete wheelset and later got two spare rims for the cost of shipping. BTLOS wasn't out much. No, I don't and never did think he deserved them. And I don't know his true motivations, none of us do. But he has been clear in subsequent comments where he made no mention of getting the extra set of rims, that he is a very satisfied customer both from the performance of the wheels and his experience with their customer service.

As to the original rims, I wouldn't expect him to be too excited about cutting them up, and having to relace a new set of wheels that may be fine, even if he wasn't happy with the mold lines.

Just because it is easy to make a case that he took advantage of the situation and effectively did so, doesn't mean that he intended to. In any case, I don't see it as the egregious outrage it has been made out to be.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> He purchased a complete wheelset and later got two spare rims for the cost of shipping. BTLOS wasn't out much. No, I don't and never did think he deserved them. And I don't know his true motivations, none of us do. But he has been clear in subsequent comments where he made no mention of getting the extra set of rims, that he is a very satisfied customer both from the performance of the wheels and his experience with their customer service.
> 
> As to the original rims, I wouldn't expect him to be too excited about cutting them up, and having to relace a new set of wheels that may be fine, even if he wasn't happy with the mold lines.
> 
> Just because it is easy to make a case that he took advantage of the situation and effectively did so, doesn't mean that he intended to. In any case, I don't see it as the egregious outrage it has been made out to be.


I do agree that I also wouldn't be excited about unlacing and destroying perfectly good rims. To do so, would be wasteful and pointless. It also illustrates that he knew the rims were of perfectly acceptable and rideable quality and he just felt entitled to a two for one deal at someone else's expense.

We're talking about extremely minor cosmetic imperfections on an invisible part of the rim here. These are hand laid carbon rims that are made to order to your specifications and shipped halfway around the world for a bargain price. Being initially upset about the mold lines would be indicative of having unrealistic expectations but not a big deal. Receiving a discount and extended warranty... yeah you're a bit of a whiny karen that probably barely rides a bike in the dirt anyway but no harm no foul. Pressuring them to give you double what you paid for when they are in a position where they have no reasonable choice but to eventually give in, is an asshole move. Hardly some evil conniving **** in the grand scheme, but hey, getting called an asshole on the internet when you brag about being an asshole is hardly capital punishment either.

You don't think it's a big deal. I think that says something about your character, but you're entitled to your opinion. If all of their customers behaved like he did, then they'd be out of business through no fault of their own.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> I do agree that I also wouldn't be excited about unlacing and destroying perfectly good rims. To do so, would be wasteful and pointless. It also illustrates that he knew the rims were of perfectly acceptable and rideable quality and he just felt entitled to a two for one deal at someone else's expense.
> 
> We're talking about extremely minor cosmetic imperfections on an invisible part of the rim here. These are hand laid carbon rims that are made to order to your specifications and shipped halfway around the world for a bargain price. Being initially upset about the mold lines would be indicative of having unrealistic expectations but not a big deal. Receiving a discount and extended warranty... yeah you're a bit of a whiny karen that probably barely rides a bike in the dirt anyway but no harm no foul. Pressuring them to give you double what you paid for when they are in a position where they have no reasonable choice but to eventually give in, is an asshole move. Hardly some evil conniving **** in the grand scheme, but hey, getting called an asshole on the internet when you brag about being an asshole is hardly capital punishment either.
> 
> You don't think it's a big deal. I think that says something about your character, but you're entitled to your opinion. If all of their customers behaved like he did, then they'd be out of business through no fault of their own.


Again, they didn't give him double of what he paid for. He purchased a complete wheelset, they gave him two bare rims. Probably the easiest thing for them to give away, and he paid the shipping.

Really the big disconnect here isn't about the rims, I think it was wrong, I've been consistent about that. It's the assumption about his motivations. You even want to bring my values into question, I'm not judging him by my values, because I can't. I'm not able to see into the heart of man from a forum post. All I know is I have seen similar situations, professionally, and in my own experience and with friends. I've been pissed at companies before, and shocked at unexpected and unasked for generosity. I've also seen people haggle a company far beyond what I was comfortable with, if I hadn't been privy to the details. And a couple times just simply uncomfortable. This guy may have thought he was fully justified until the new rims showed up and he realized he had been silly all along. Or not, we simply don't know and that is why I find attacking him based on unfounded assumptions to be out of line. I can only go on what he posted and I can't say he was motivated to work them over for free rims when it went down.

My previous example of the bars isn't that different, they are mission critical and I put rims in a similar category. I refused to use them at first because I thought a cosmetic flaw could be a structural flaw. I didn't figure that out until I had the replacement in hand. If I had made a similar mistake in judgement about my second set of carbon rims I could see a similar outcome, with the best intentions. Having to ship the rims around the planet definitely changes some aspects of the equation, but it doesn't make it any simpler to interpret.

And thank you for the conversation, it's probably still a long dead horse but at least it's mostly on topic and it may help somebody figure out a similar situation for themselves. Hopefully without deciding to try and get some free rims out of it, but then I don't see this as an existential crisis for BTLOS, every company is going to deal with some Karens but that has always been the way and it is baked in to the equation. A forum post isn't going to change the balance of human nature.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Velo, you conveniently gloss over, _repeatedly_, that BTLOS isn't out much in their custom making of a set of rims that has one mold mark as opposed to the four that his original rims had. And I ask you what is it that brings you to this dismissive conclusion?? (Keep in mind that the rims that he felt were suspect are still rolling along just fine. If they had even the slightest of issues, we can all rest assured that he'd be here, singing like a canary.)

If BTLOS was able to produce rims with the perfomance that they currently have, with one seam/mold mark in the bead channel, for the price that we are all privileged to get, I would wager that they'd offer that already. To say that BTLOS isn't out anything, when what they made for him cost them more than what he already paid for, is a statement exhibiting willing ignorance of what is directly in front of you.

Saying that they didn't give him double what he paid for because they are only rims as opposed to full wheels is mincing words in the realm of semantics. _*THINK*_ about what you kicked off the post above this with...did he not pay for the rims that are laced into wheels? Yes, he did. The rims are, aside from the hubs, the largest chunk of the cost involved in the wheels. That the rims are not the entirety of the cost of the wheels is not withstanding.

If more people complain that their rims don't look like rims that cost 4 times what these cost, and BTLOS et al, are forced to produce a more costly rim to quell the entitled people that wouldn't know the difference if it bit them, then we can pretty much get acquainted with paying more for rims that do the same thing.

That is why this discussion and admonishment of Brews handling of the situation is important.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> Again, they didn't give him double of what he paid for. He purchased a complete wheelset, they gave him two bare rims. Probably the easiest thing for them to give away, and he paid the shipping.
> 
> Really the big disconnect here isn't about the rims, I think it was wrong, I've been consistent about that. It's the assumption about his motivations. You even want to bring my values into question, I'm not judging him by my values, because I can't. I'm not able to see into the heart of man from a forum post. All I know is I have seen similar situations, professionally, and in my own experience and with friends. I've been pissed at companies before, and shocked at unexpected and unasked for generosity. I've also seen people haggle a company far beyond what I was comfortable with, if I hadn't been privy to the details. And a couple times just simply uncomfortable. This guy may have thought he was fully justified until the new rims showed up and he realized he had been silly all along. Or not, we simply don't know and that is why I find attacking him based on unfounded assumptions to be out of line. I can only go on what he posted and I can't say he was motivated to work them over for free rims when it went down.
> 
> ...


I already wrote a thoughtful response to your handlebar situation in a previous comment, and I think you must have mostly overlooked it because you were caught up in the moment of having a pissing match with me. Here it is again:

"Your experience with your handlebar is different. You had a legitimate concern over what you perceived as a safety issue. You were misinformed, but you didn't have any malicious intent, and when you realized that you were being overly cautious you showed humility, learned from the experience, and did the right thing by returning the bar instead of capitalizing on the situation even when it would have been very easy to do so. You also showed gratitude toward the company, rather than a sense of entitlement."

Look, I wasn't trying to burn the guy at the stake. My initial response was crass and kneejerk but it is what it is. We've all been assholes at times, and hopefully most of us try to learn from it when someone says hey you were an asshole in this situation. You're right... we can't read the guys mind to judge his intention, but sometimes you can be an asshole out of ignorance or skewed perspective rather than malice and you're still being an asshole. Whether or not btlos can absorb a certain percentage of their customers being entitled assholes doesn't excuse it. I wonder if you'd be bending so far over backwards to make excuses for this guy if you weren't so fixated on winning an argument with me... your most despised scumbag mtbr troll.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

GT87 said:


> I already wrote a thoughtful response to your handlebar situation in a previous comment, and I think you must have mostly overlooked it because you were caught up in the moment of having a pissing match with me...
> ...I wonder if you'd be bending so far over backwards to make excuses for this guy if you weren't so fixated on winning an argument with me... your most despised scumbag mtbr troll.


That's exactly why I mentioned the bars again, because I think it is more similar than you seemed to. I'm not making excuses for the guy, I'm simply saying we don't know if he intended to screw BTLOS. I can't excuse the unknown. Maybe I am trying to hang on to some Pollyanna for old times sake, but I didn't see anything in his posts to hang him on. Everything else is secondary conversation, perhaps useful but really besides my original point. I felt like your reaction was out of line, even if the guy was openly gloating I would have felt that it was over the top, if more justified. But then he would have been well worked over way back when he first posted, we never miss a chance for righteous outrage around here.

But check this out- he did get what I think was an appropriate taste. And he continued to engage in the thread. If BTLOS was going to get any benefit from their largess, his repeated later comments praising his wheels were part of it. Think of it as part of their advertising budget. If we had run him off in shame that may have played out differently. I have been playing that game for decades, excellent customer service for all but the absolute biggest PITA customers always pays off in the long run even if it is infuriating at the time to appease the Karens. Three digit freebie service calls can lead to six figure projects. Or two extra rims can sell some wheelsets. And this guys intentions don't change that.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

choan said:


> wtf where are the moderator to clean all this ****. digging up a 5month post to whine about while advertising it. gg boy.


+1

Please stop, you both sound like children and have completely derailed this once useful thread.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

markcm said:


> +1
> 
> Please stop, you both sound like children and have completely derailed this once useful thread.


Nobody had commented on this thread in over a week, but ok, sure, we'll stop. Brilliant contribution... well done.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Glad I found this thread (the non-arguing parts at least).

I'd been looking for some new hoops with a decent weight/cost/reputation.

Ended up with some iW30AS rims laced to DT Swiss 240 EXPs, with D-lights.

With free shipping and 15% off, worked out the same price as XM481/240 build but 200-300g lighter.

Hopefully they won't be too too stiff.


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## amadkins (Jun 19, 2008)

Ordered mine on 9/28 and still waiting.


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

matther01 said:


> Glad I found this thread (the non-arguing parts at least).
> 
> I'd been looking for some new hoops with a decent weight/cost/reputation.
> 
> ...


How'd you get the free shipping?


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

The Chinese New Year code was still working. It's further up in the thread somewhere. Apologies, I can't remember it off the top of my head.


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

amadkins said:


> Ordered mine on 9/28 and still waiting.


Ordered 9/14 and still waiting here. I've had the tracking # since Oct 13th. Getting a bit old. Supposedly it was 5-10 days. Getting anxious, but they said it's out of China, so It must be due soon.


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## amadkins (Jun 19, 2008)

Widget said:


> Ordered 9/14 and still waiting here. I've had the tracking # since Oct 13th. Getting a bit old. Supposedly it was 5-10 days. Getting anxious, but they said it's out of China, so It must be due soon.


Yeah. They're telling me the hold up is EMS. Definitely frustrating.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Same here. Frustrating. These wheels better be AWESOME!!!



amadkins said:


> Ordered mine on 9/28 and still waiting.


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## markcm (Sep 11, 2007)

Matthew_VA said:


> Same here. Frustrating. These wheels better be AWESOME!!!


Hopefully it turns out to be worth the wait for you. The more rides I get on my BTLOS wheels (i29 asymmetrical with DT240), the more I like them. These wheels are very light, very responsive, and so far have held up great with a few pretty solid hits on roots and rocks.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I broke my third rim i30a downhill layup. Cushcore 2.4" double downs at 25 psi. The most recent one cracked on an insignificant rock. They aren't willing to warranty any more so I went dtswiss ex511. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

I ordered before I knew the shipping issues. I emailed them for an update, and asking about options, and all of a sudden, I received the "shipping" email. However, the email has all these caveots about how EMS is backed up, so the tracking # won't be valid for a week because they are going to move it over to another city to ship. Kind of sounds like maybe they are behind but are generating tracking #'s to make it look like it's shipped? Not sure though, could really be an issue over there.

The email is nice enough:

Due to the recent COVID2019, and as Christmas is approaching, the shipping problem is crazy after shipment. EMS flights are insufficient, so recent packages need to wait for scheduled flights. This time is too long, so we arranged EMS in another city (Beijing), Since it takes about a week for Xiamen to go to Beijing, so, It may take up a week before tracking is activated. And it will take about 10-15 days to arrive after the update. Your understanding and patience are much appreciated. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us via email directly and we will be glad to assist you.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

I can only go off my experience but I ordered my wheels in the Beginning of sept if I remember right and I had them in three weeks. They didn't volunteer any shipping or order updates but whenever I emailed them they always got back to me the very next day, and everything they said with the progress of my order happened exactly like they said it would.

looks like I may have got mine just before the shipping supply delays. after riding the wheels and going through the process even if it was delayed a month I would and probably still will place another order.


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## singletrack990 (Jul 14, 2014)

I ordered a set of the WM-i29A with DT350 hubs on 10/2 and they were delivered on 11/2. The wheels look great and they even threw in some rim tape (which I wasn't expecting). I've only had them out on one ride but so far I can feel the difference between them and the aluminum set I have been using. I'd order from them again in a heartbeat.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

SpuTTer said:


> I ordered before I knew the shipping issues. I emailed them for an update, and asking about options, and all of a sudden, I received the "shipping" email. However, the email has all these caveots about how EMS is backed up, so the tracking # won't be valid for a week because they are going to move it over to another city to ship. Kind of sounds like maybe they are behind but are generating tracking #'s to make it look like it's shipped? Not sure though, could really be an issue over there.
> 
> The email is nice enough:
> 
> Due to the recent COVID2019, and as Christmas is approaching, the shipping problem is crazy after shipment. EMS flights are insufficient, so recent packages need to wait for scheduled flights. This time is too long, so we arranged EMS in another city (Beijing), Since it takes about a week for Xiamen to go to Beijing, so, It may take up a week before tracking is activated. And it will take about 10-15 days to arrive after the update. Your understanding and patience are much appreciated. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us via email directly and we will be glad to assist you.


I ordered wheels on 10/21 and they supposedly shipped out 11/6. I had a lengthy chat with one of the reps on the shipping process. After you get the tracking it really doesn't mean anything since they need to arrange getting the wheels from Xiamen where they are located to Beijing by a carrier. The time from Xiamen to Beijing is about a week but it could be several days after you get your tracking before the wheels even start making their it way to Beijing.

Once the wheels are in Beijing is when the tracking gets updated as now the wheels are officially in the China Post system. From here it can take another 5-15 days before they deliver to the US.

I suffer from need it now so these wheels will test my patience lol..


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I have been looking at LB wheels for a while and found this thread today, lots of good info here. I have a 2021 Specialized Epic Evo Comp that I went with specifically with the intent of getting light wheels to be around the weight of the Expert but for far less $. My question is what are the benefits of the shallow (18mm) rims vs the deeper ones? I have not decided the inter width I want yet but I’m leaning toward 27–30mm. These width come in both depths and are comparable in weight. Until I looked at the web site I had not seen anything like this on the expensive big brand wheels or other Chinese sites. I am not against trying something different as long as there is a clear reason for it. Maybe it is not a new technology and I just have not educated myself, either way clarification would be great. 
Thanks!


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I have been looking at LB wheels for a while and found this thread today, lots of good info here. I have a 2021 Specialized Epic Evo Comp that I went with specifically with the intent of getting light wheels to be around the weight of the Expert but for far less $. My question is what are the benefits of the shallow (18mm) rims vs the deeper ones? I have not decided the inter width I want yet but I’m leaning toward 27–30mm. These width come in both depths and are comparable in weight. Until I looked at the web site I had not seen anything like this on the expensive big brand wheels or other Chinese sites. I am not against trying something different as long as there is a clear reason for it. Maybe it is not a new technology and I just have not educated myself, either way clarification would be great. 
Thanks!


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

My wheelset finally arrived. Have to say they look pretty sharp! and actually weigh about 12 grams less than estimated on the website.


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## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Matthew_VA said:


> My wheelset finally arrived. Have to say they look pretty sharp! and actually weigh about 12 grams less than estimated on the website.


looks sweet! Nice hub choice


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

Got mine too. Great looking wheels. Will get them mounted up and give them a go soon.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

What rim strength do you go for? AM, EN or DH?


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

I went with AM just because I want to have a light wheelset for more of an XC config for my bike...



matther01 said:


> What rim strength do you go for? AM, EN or DH?


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Stans and Ibis (in collaboration with Stans) are using this design (BTLOS may have taken 'inspiration' from it; although AS has been a thing in road biking for a while I believe). Stans 'say' it makes the rim stronger, less prone to rock strikes and bending, but will make for a more comfortable ride (which is great as carbon can be too stiff). I read an article on Flow mtb site about it. This is why I opted for 30mm AS version.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

matther01 said:


> Stans and Ibis (in collaboration with Stans) are using this design (BTLOS may have taken 'inspiration' from it; although AS has been a thing in road biking for a while I believe). Stans 'say' it makes the rim stronger, less prone to rock strikes and bending, but will make for a more comfortable ride (which is great as carbon can be too stiff). I read an article on Flow mtb site about it. This is why I opted for 30mm AS version.


thanks for the info, I'll look for the Flow article.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

Matthew_VA said:


> My wheelset finally arrived. Have to say they look pretty sharp! and actually weigh about 12 grams less than estimated on the website.


Wheels look great! So you got them about two weeks after they gave you tracking? Where in the US are you?

Also I see spare spokes provided. Do they give you the spoke lengths they used to build the wheel also? Also do they provide spoke tension and truing specs of the wheelset?


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

a little less--got the tracking number on Nov 3. I'm in Virginia.

Unfortunately, no spoke/wheel info provided. I plan to email them to inquire.



bajaguy said:


> Wheels look great! So you got them about two weeks after they gave you tracking? Where in the US are you?
> 
> Also I see spare spokes provided. Do they give you the spoke lengths they used to build the wheel also? Also do they provide spoke tension and truing specs of the wheelset?


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

One thing I forgot to mention, is the box was damaged... The plastic hub cap protected was pushed through the box. Is this something that should be of concern? I've looked over the weeks and everything looks OK.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Zguitar71 said:


> thanks for the info, I'll look for the Flow article.


And consider 34 or 35mm rims also. The width will work fine with 2.35 and 2.4 high volume rounded profile tires. But will allow you now or on a future bike to run a 2.6 front or rear with better sidewall support. BTLOS has a shallow 34 and Carbonfan has a 35. Carbonfan is competitive with rim pricing but not on a wheelset.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

eb1888 said:


> And consider 34 or 35mm rims also. The width will work fine with 2.35 and 2.4 high volume rounded profile tires. But will allow you now or on a future bike to run a 2.6 front or rear with better sidewall support. BTLOS has a shallow 34 and Carbonfan has a 35. Carbonfan is competitive with rim pricing but not on a wheelset.


I'll probably go with the shallow 30mm at this point. I initially was looking at 25mm wheels for the weight but I am leaning toward the 30 now. I can't run larger than a 2.4 on the back and I think the Sid fork will take a 2.6. Mostly I ride Blue trails and fire roads for long adventures. I occasionally get on a black with a rock garden but that is rare and I pick lines that avoid the big drops. What you say about air volume is important though and I have backed off my obsession with weight for more volume and the ability to go a little wider on the front too.


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

matther01 said:


> What rim strength do you go for? AM, EN or DH?


WM-i30as here. 28spoke. Will mount later tonight or in the AM.


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## Simplydown (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm going to order a wheelset and trying to decide between coating free vs matte finish. Any pros cons to either choice? Is there any difference in weight, finish durability, ease of cleanup, etc between the two? If anyone ordered a wheelset in coating free and can post a closeup pic, I'd really appreciate it!


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

Simplydown said:


> I'm going to order a wheelset and trying to decide between coating free vs matte finish. Any pros cons to either choice? Is there any difference in weight, finish durability, ease of cleanup, etc between the two? If anyone ordered a wheelset in coating free and can post a closeup pic, I'd really appreciate it!


I'm also thinking about coating free vs Matte... really don't understand what's the real difference in terms of weight/strenght.
The only thing that i'm sure is that the decals are sticker version and removable in the coating free version, and not removable because covered by transparent spray paint in the matte version.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

On carbon fiber it's not unusual for the clear coat to have UV protection properties, because not all carbon resin is UV resistant. Also the clear coat will also serve as a barrier to the carbon, think of it as frame protection.
Don't known how much the weight difference is, but don't think it will much of a difference.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

I went matte for just a tad more scratch resistance. Also opted for black decals more for resale than anything else. There are cheap carbon rims...and really cheap carbon rims!


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

So, when you build the rims it doesn't show a difference. But according to the description on their website, the coating free is supposed to be a little lighter. It seems to cost a little extra, as I'm guessing there is more detail work to be done.

Now is lighter more than a few grams? No idea.

_This is BTLOS' most advanced manufacturing process. Due to high-quality carbon fiber and specially formulated epoxy (resin) along with state-of-the-art molding and manufacturing techniques, BTLOS rims come out of the mold without blemishes or defects in their finish eliminating the need for painting and/or clear coating and also saving weight._


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## SoFlaMTB (Nov 24, 2020)

Gat a few rides in on a set of shallow asym 27’s. 32 spoke, brass nips, j bend, dt240. So far I’m very impressed. Ordering was easy, communication was excellent (and accurate), and wheels are super-light and true. I’ll update after some more miles but so far they’ve been awesome.


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## joshtee (Jun 30, 2016)

Anyone have any issues with BTLOS getting back to you? I asked a question via the 'Contact Us' form with no answer/response. Waited 4 days and then asked the same question in the 'Chat' option. 3 more days and still nothing.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

joshtee said:


> Anyone have any issues with BTLOS getting back to you? I asked a question via the 'Contact Us' form with no answer/response. Waited 4 days and then asked the same question in the 'Chat' option. 3 more days and still nothing.


Amy has usually been quite quick. Looking at this thread, I think she may be the only customer service representative (that covers English speaking customers at least). They might be really busy or she/they might be ill? I know my order has been really slow to be made and posted (ordered October, posted last week). I'm not in any hurry anyway.


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

joshtee said:


> Anyone have any issues with BTLOS getting back to you? I asked a question via the 'Contact Us' form with no answer/response. Waited 4 days and then asked the same question in the 'Chat' option. 3 more days and still nothing.


Usually about a day to 2 turnaround via email. Got my wheels but the 1mm spacer between the freehub and body is missing so they bind when installed. Now the question if they will respond to send this or if I'll have to go out and source one. Frustrating either way. Otherwise the Asym 30's a a sweet set of wheels.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Widget said:


> Usually about a day to 2 turnaround via email. Got my wheels but the 1mm spacer between the freehub and body is missing so they bind when installed. Now the question if they will respond to send this or if I'll have to go out and source one. Frustrating either way. Otherwise the Asym 30's a a sweet set of wheels.


It'll be far quicker sourcing your own. Hopefully Btlos still send you one.


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

matther01 said:


> It'll be far quicker sourcing your own. Hopefully Btlos still send you one.


Already inbound. Took maters into my own hands. Best luck, I get a credit back or some good will on a future order.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Widget said:


> Already inbound. Took maters into my own hands. Best luck, I get a credit back or some good will on a future order.


Which brand hub was it for?


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

matther01 said:


> Which brand hub was it for?


Hope - XD driver. They must have forgot it or hope did in their QC checks. Anyhow, It wasn't there and the cassette wouldn't freewheel when installed.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Widget said:


> Hope - XD driver. They must have forgot it or hope did in their QC checks. Anyhow, It wasn't there and the cassette wouldn't freewheel when installed.


Did Hope send you one free of charge? They're usually really good with customer service if you explain the situation. Mind you, that probably only applies to the UK due to postage costs.


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## Widget (Sep 14, 2008)

matther01 said:


> Did Hope send you one free of charge? They're usually really good with customer service if you explain the situation. Mind you, that probably only applies to the UK due to postage costs.


Hope pointed me to BTLOS who is sorting it out with their contact. It's a $6 part, so more frustrating than anything else. I ordered one locally, but not a part the shops had sitting around. Still working with BTLOS to get it from them as I feel they should have caught this as part of their QC checks if they are applying the freehubs. If they take what they get from hope and build the wheel, then it's on Hope. Frustrating is that BTLOS needs a video of the issue as the next step. I'm fine to wrench on my bike, and that's why I pulled the freehub and spotted the missing part. But really, I have to put it back on (pull cassette, install, Take video) to tear it apart? There is no spacer which is known to cause the issue. It's not like I'm begging them for a new hub. I may just drop it, for the $6 cost it's hardly worth my time.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

My tracking # hasn't been updated for a while. I got a response from BTLOS today that the shipping time is "out of range". Sounds like I'm probably screwed on my order. I've been waiting almost 6 weeks. If they have to make another set and ship again, I can't imagine it being much faster. They've been in good communication I guess. Disappointing. This is the game you play when you try some save a few bucks. Hopefully it randomly shows up or they get me a rushed out order.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I ordered this time of year just because I don't care when they get here. It's Covid, everyone is backed up. Helps to go in with no expectations at all. BTLOS seems like they will take care of people at the end of the day. I've got wheels for now and likely not riding much for a few months anyway. But if you need them fast, I would definitely pony up and order domestic.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

SpuTTer said:


> My tracking # hasn't been updated for a while. I got a response from BTLOS today that the shipping time is "out of range". Sounds like I'm probably screwed on my order. I've been waiting almost 6 weeks. If they have to make another set and ship again, I can't imagine it being much faster. They've been in good communication I guess. Disappointing. This is the game you play when you try some save a few bucks. Hopefully it randomly shows up or they get me a rushed out order.


Amy mentioned it was about 30 days for delivery to the UK with standard delivery from the day I received my tracking notification. FedEx would've been 5-7 days but an extra $170ish. I'm expecting mine next year. So be it.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Received a pair of wheels for my g/f's bike built with the WM-i27AS rims last week. 350 hubs, 28 cx-ray s/p spokes, 6 bolt. 663g for the front, 771g for the rear. This will shave almost a pound off of the bike.

I would normally default to UD weave, but went with the matter 12k weave for her bike just to add a little touch and I must admit that they look great. The matter finish tones it down enough so that they don't scream "CARBON!", but when you look close or the lighting is right you see the weave. Very nice.

I'm getting them taped and tires mounted right now, so no ride impressions. Her bike is two sizes too small for me anyway. The main goal was to shave weight and to get something nicer than the very pedestrian wheels that were on there. The 2.35 Hans Damf looks ok, though I wouldn't want to go with any narrower of rim.

I think I'll have to get me a set built, though I think I'll go with the i30.


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

bizango said:


> Received a pair of wheels for my g/f's bike built with the WM-i27AS rims last week. 350 hubs, 28 cx-ray s/p spokes, 6 bolt. 663g for the front, 771g for the rear. This will shave almost a pound off of the bike.
> 
> I would normally default to UD weave, but went with the matter 12k weave for her bike just to add a little touch and I must admit that they look great. The matter finish tones it down enough so that they don't scream "CARBON!", but when you look close or the lighting is right you see the weave. Very nice.
> 
> ...


Hi, nice build... i'm also waiting the shallow AM rims, but in 30mm wide. Same 350hubs with CX-ray spokes... shipped last week.

Nice to have also your weights, as i will maybe in the future buy only a rear 27mm wheel for 2.3/2.35 maxxis tires (not so wide as schwalbe) and keep the 30mm on front.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I recently bought a set of wheels. I did the deed a day after they started the Black Friday sale. I went way over the top on the hubs but I’ve always wanted them and I had the money so I did it. I went with the WM-i29A rims, CX-ray spokes and alloy nipples and DT Swiss 180 hubs. The total weight should be around 1360 grams. It will be 4-6 weeks before I get them but I’m going to be shut out of the mountains any day with heavy snow so the wait isn’t a big deal. Originally I was going for 240 hubs but with the sale I opted for the 180 hubs. These are going on a 2021 Epic Evo Comp. My goal was to mimic the Roval Control SL wheels, these are 100 grams heavier but $1350 less.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Zguitar71 said:


> I recently bought a set of wheels. I did the deed a day after they started the Black Friday sale. I went way over the top on the hubs but I've always wanted them and I had the money so I did it. I went with the WM-i29A rims, CX-ray spokes and alloy nipples and DT Swiss 180 hubs. The total weight should be around 1360 grams. It will be 4-6 weeks before I get them but I'm going to be shut out of the mountains any day with heavy snow so the wait isn't a big deal. Originally I was going for 240 hubs but with the sale I opted for the 180 hubs. These are going on a 2021 Epic Evo Comp. My goal was to mimic the Roval Control SL wheels, these are 100 grams heavier but $1350 less.


How much price difference was there between the 180s vs. 240s? I'm wishing I'd waited until Black Friday now...especially as it's nearly 2 months since I placed my order and they were just shipped a couple of days ago. Doh


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

matther01 said:


> How much price difference was there between the 180s vs. 240s? I'm wishing I'd waited until Black Friday now...especially as it's nearly 2 months since I placed my order and they were just shipped a couple of days ago. Doh


It was around 300 bucks when I ordered. I had them in the cart, then thought better of it and switched to 240's.


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## joshtee (Jun 30, 2016)

joshtee said:


> Anyone have any issues with BTLOS getting back to you? I asked a question via the 'Contact Us' form with no answer/response. Waited 4 days and then asked the same question in the 'Chat' option. 3 more days and still nothing.


Just to update this. There seemed to be a issue with receiving responses back from them. The problem could have been on my end. I'm not sure. Anyways, I emailed them directly using their email address. Amy got right back to me and answered all my questions quickly.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

matther01 said:


> How much price difference was there between the 180s vs. 240s? I'm wishing I'd waited until Black Friday now...especially as it's nearly 2 months since I placed my order and they were just shipped a couple of days ago. Doh


The 180s are $320 more but with the $80 off I chose to view the difference as $240.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Have a few rides on the WM-i27AS wheels (w/ DT Swiss 240EXPs and Sapim CX-Ray spokes) and am impressed! Wheels feel great (have them paired with Maxxis Forekaster 2.35 front and Ardent Race 2.2 rear). I[m no expert but here is a brief inital review, if interested

*Build Quality:* Solid build quality--I didn't notice any imperfections upon receiving wheelset. Wheels were true and centered, no loose spokes. wheels actually weighed in about 12 grams less than estimated on website. Rim tape and extra spokes were included but no "certificates of approval" w/ wheel info attached. Took about a month and half from date of order to date of delivery...

*Ride Quality (have about 40 miles on them)*: the first mile, I was like "WOW! these are awesome!" I feel more connected to the trail and bike seems more responsive. I also feel more detail of the trail terrain, which allows me to react quicker. On the ground and over techy sections, the wheels feel solid but stiff. However, I do feel the landings of drops and jumps more prominently--not as much give as my 27.5 alloys (w/ 2.6 and 2.5 tires)--but it's not harsh. They are just fun to ride!

*OVERALL: *Simply put, very pleased--they are great wheels and worth the wait to get them. We'll see how they do long-term but, at this point, I would certainly not hesitate to order another wheelset from BTLOS.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

My wheelset is all but lost at this point. Tracking hasn't been updated since 11/22. They are asking me to wait a couple more days before they try to remedy the situation.


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## conorthinks (Jul 20, 2020)

SpuTTer said:


> My wheelset is all but lost at this point. Tracking hasn't been updated since 11/22. They are asking me to wait a couple more days before they try to remedy the situation.


I'm in the same spot, my tracking was last updated 11/20.

The bike they're going on doesn't arrive until February so I'm not in a rush, but if they have to re-send them it seems like it could be February before they arrive.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

conorthinks said:


> I'm in the same spot, my tracking was last updated 11/20.
> 
> The bike they're going on doesn't arrive until February so I'm not in a rush, but if they have to re-send them it seems like it could be February before they arrive.


Me too. Last updated on 24 Nov saying in transit. They do say 8-20 days though. If I get close to 60 days from the date of order, I may think about a PayPal dispute just to cover me.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

From what I understand it is the shipping backlog out of China. I ordered mine the second week of October and they arrived right after Thanksgiving. The tracking number sat for the majority of that time with no update. This happened with the previous order back in Jan/Feb. I imagine shipping is even more backed up right now with the holidays coming.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

I ordered 10/21 and they delivered 11/19 to California for reference.

I ordered the Shallow 30mm wide rims with DT240 exp centerlock hubs and 28 CX ray straight pull hubs. Weight with tape and valve stems came at 1490grams.(Premium AM)

The wheels looked and ride great. I have CB Synthesis Flagship Enduro 11 Carbon wheels on another bike and these BTLOS are just as compliant. No harshness and super snappy. Trails here in Southern California are loose over hardpack, super loose, rocky, chunky, and bomb holes on a lot of trails. The real test will be durability but so far after 100 miles they have been performing well.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

bajaguy said:


> I ordered 10/21 and they delivered 11/19 to California for reference.


Glad you got yours! That's right about when I ordered. She said that at least 20 other people who ordered around that time have gotten theirs. That's why I'm bummed about mine. Sounds like some of ours got lost or stolen somehow. Hopefully in a couple more day's they'll have a good solution (hopefully can get the replacement set made/delivered quick, but I'm skeptical.)


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm interested in an internal width of 29-30mm, and they have so many choices. Asym, deep, shallow, AM, etc. How do you choose?


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## evo3gsx (Sep 1, 2016)

Same thing here.. ordered 10/15 with last tracking update on 11/23. Haven't received a response in 5 days and sent another follow-up last night asking for the status of the shipment.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

jabrabu said:


> I'm interested in an internal width of 29-30mm, and they have so many choices. Asym, deep, shallow, AM, etc. How do you choose?


Though the response times are slowing a bit, which is totally understandable. If you email them your size, bike, riding style and terrain. They will work you through the various options. I ended up ordering the WM-I30AS in a DH layup, which they don't actually show on their website.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I had ordered rims during BF sale and was promised last week shipping. They stated it shipped, they just don't have a tracking# from Mason yet (I chose the cheapest shipping option). So far everything seems OK and on track. I was expecting it to take a while. I assume they schedule manufacturing after the order is placed. After I placed my order they sent a confirmation email for me to verify the exact options (I also have them drill the valve for Shrader, so yeah, they don't have those already on the shelf).

I assume a wheelset will take much longer since they depend on 3rd party hub manufacturer, and require actual building steps after the rim is made.

Any email was responded to within a business day. Keep in mind, it is night time in China when it is day here. All things considered, I get better response from this Chinese vendor than from some in my time zone.

Anyone wondering about their order, before jumping on the internet and asking on a forum, I recommend jumping on the same internet, and send them an email. I'm sure BTLOS can give you better information on your specific order than anyone here can.

A bit off-topic, but LightBicycle also was good. I had placed an order for a wheelset... similar procedure. It turned out the hubs I wanted had a 3-4 month lead time. After playing through some alternatives with them (hubs they didn't have on their website, MS hubs etc.) I decided to cancel and they refunded me the money within 2 days. During all the communication with hub options they responded within reasonable time. Meaning an email I sent during the day in the US, I had a response after midnight. Emails I sent during our night, were answered within hours. Ultimately I cancelled, so I can't tell how actual shipping works for LB. But the initial impression with both vendors is good.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

Mine have now cleared customs in the UK and out to the delivery depot. Hopefully will hear soon as to when they can be collected.


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

matther01 said:


> Mine have now cleared customs in the UK and out to the delivery depot. Hopefully will hear soon as to when they can be collected.


I'm also waiting for a wheelset, shipped 2 December with DHL to Italy.
DHL should be 3-5 business days... however.... tracking says only that the Data Received..., i suppose it will appear and track the various steps only from when it arrive in europe.

What shipping method have you used?

I hope to receive the wheelset before christmas....


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

Ordered mine on the evening of 11/19 here in California and received it on 12/4, so pretty much exactly 3 weeks after the order was placed.

Although I chose the slowest/cheapest shipping option ("EMS"), the tracking info was sent by BTLOS on 11/27, tracking went "live" on 11/30, and it was on my doorstep on 12/4 so overall pretty darn fast.

This is my second order with them and once again I'm very satisfied with the quality.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

localn8ve said:


> Ordered mine on the evening of 11/19 here in California and received it on 12/4, so pretty much exactly 3 weeks after the order was placed.
> 
> Although I chose the slowest/cheapest shipping option ("EMS"), the tracking info was sent by BTLOS on 11/27, tracking went "live" on 11/30, and it was on my doorstep on 12/4 so overall pretty darn fast.
> 
> This is my second order with them and once again I'm very satisfied with the quality.


I ordered mine on 11/22. I have not received a shipping number yet, I also went with the cheapest. I hope I can get mine soon too.


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

I recieved mine today and they look extremely good, well made, true and tensioned.

I specifically didn't want them taped so a could see the rim bed for any potential quality issues...but there are none.

A whole 3g more than the average weight advertised! When I weighed them I was a bit concerned I may have gone too light with the AM version. But for an extra 50g per rim on the EN version, I'm not wholly sure it'd make a huge difference. Time will tell....


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

matther01 said:


> I recieved mine today and they look extremely good, well made, true and tensioned.
> 
> I specifically didn't want them taped so a could see the rim bed for any potential quality issues...but there are none.
> 
> A whole 3g more than the average weight advertised! When I weighed them I was a bit concerned I may have gone too light with the AM version. But for an extra 50g per rim on the EN version, I'm not wholly sure it'd make a huge difference. Time will tell....


Good news that you received it... hope to receive mine... tracking still shows accepted and still nothing...
Was DHL parcel your shipping method?

Glad to hear that the wheels seems good... will you give us some feedback about mounting tires and impression when riding?
Are you coming from dt swiss alu rims? Hope that the bead is not too tigth and as good as the dt swiss rim (mounting is very easy on Dt)


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## matther01 (Mar 18, 2018)

zambo78 said:


> Good news that you received it... hope to receive mine... tracking still shows accepted and still nothing...
> Was DHL parcel your shipping method?
> 
> Glad to hear that the wheels seems good... will you give us some feedback about mounting tires and impression when riding?
> Are you coming from dt swiss alu rims? Hope that the bead is not too tigth and as good as the dt swiss rim (mounting is very easy on Dt)


Sadly, it'll be a while before I get them up and running. Currently in a build phase and awaiting a new steel full suss frame. Still need to buy a new dropper and forks. First 29er is costing a small fortune! Currently on a set of 32 ARC rims with DT 240s old gen, but they run well on my HT. They're a bit flexi so these will undoubtedly be stiffer. I did EMS which then went through UK parcelforce.


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## SpuTTer (Jan 19, 2004)

and just like that, a Christmas miracle. The tracking was updated and then my package arrived TODAY. Apparently, the plan contents were sitting at the airport for a month. I hope everyone else on my same plane gets theirs soon! Haven't opened the box yet, but excited!


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

Also my tracking comes alive today... hope to receive it in 1 or 2 days....


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## givemefive (May 26, 2007)

Bitex BITEX
BTLOS M-i34AS 29er asymmetric Enduro cycling shallow carbon rims - Btlos Bicycle
CX-ray spokes

I built these myself as I had bought the hubs a long time ago.


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## davidream (May 25, 2017)

Hy!
I ordered my set of wheels in 13/11/2020 and received them today.(Europe-Portugal)
Nice packing, the wheels were well protected.
As for the wheels themself, they're super nice! They come with a little label on them with some info (weight, S/N and some other numbers?)
They seem legit! nice build quality(as stated from other user here) hope that i'm lucky with them!


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

I received the wheels today.
Well packaged, two spare spokes with nipples and some spare stickers.
Pretaped very well. (tape is only at the center of the channel, not where the tire beads goes. Tape is approx 23mm wide on 30mm internal rims)
The rims seems very nice
Tires goes by hand(almost as good as dtswiss rims) and tire beads seat ok even without going too high in pressure and without soapy water.
Weight is very accurate. Website say 1484 +/- 25gr. The wheelset weight real 1510gr. with tape and valves installed.

For now i i can say that Btlos was always very kind in the communications and support. Hope to test the wheelset as soon as possible...(-750gr. shaved from actual wheelset+rotors+cassette) I'm curios to see in uphills and pedal days, how the bike will change and maybe become quicker or react better with less rotating mass....
They should be my home trails wheelset, nothing too aggressive, so i think a lightweight carbon wheelset, with maybe the shallow compliance, could be a good and long lasting option. Time will tell...


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

OK, first short test ride today....
BTLOS 30mm rims, shallow version.

Despite the weight saved, in climbing i didn't find a night/day difference... In the restarts, the accelerations, the first pedal strokes gives you the feel that the bike accelerate faster. At average speed i didn't find relevant differences in performance.
Regarding comfort/riding feel, compared to dtswiss M1900 i didn't find any harshness. The wheels feels more precise, but not stiffer. Maybe they "are" stiffer, but the comfort when riding, to me is as good as the previous alu wheelset.
What really surprised me was the general handling of the bike. When trail riding, the bike seems react better and quicker in every aspect. I don't know if it's the benefit of the less rotation mass or "feeling" of the carbon rims.

Really like the stealth look! 😁


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

When I switch between my carbon wheels and my heavy, aluminium set, I have similar takeaways as you. Mostly notice it in agility. Everything just seems to happen quicker and more precisely. Which is more fun This is during rides of say 10 miles or less. When I get into 15-25 mile days, I definitely notice less perceived effort at the end of the day.

Just my observations, I'm sure someone will be along with some science that says otherwise though and that's totally fine too. I still ordered another set anyway😆


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## tbondu (Aug 12, 2003)

zambo78 said:


> OK, first short test ride today....
> BTLOS 30mm rims, shallow version.
> 
> Despite the weight saved, in climbing i didn't find a night/day difference... In the restarts, the accelerations, the first pedal strokes gives you the feel that the bike accelerate faster. At average speed i didn't find relevant differences in performance.
> ...


Looks like 28H F/R? What hubs did you go with?


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

tbondu said:


> Looks like 28H F/R? What hubs did you go with?


Dt 350 36T ratchet, centerlock straightpull 28H with sapim CX Ray spokes


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## kevin_sbay (Sep 26, 2018)

shakazulu12 said:


> When I switch between my carbon wheels and my heavy, aluminium set, I have similar takeaways as you. Mostly notice it in agility. Everything just seems to happen quicker and more precisely. Which is more fun This is during rides of say 10 miles or less. When I get into 15-25 mile days, I definitely notice less perceived effort at the end of the day.
> 
> Just my observations, I'm sure someone will be along with some science that says otherwise though and that's totally fine too. I still ordered another set anyway😆


Yeah, makes sense. As the wheels get spinning, doesn't make much effort to keep them spinning if you're going straight and smooth, so that's less noticeable.
Of course, if you're spinning with starts/stops and in between, or turning, you'll notice it.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

zambo78 said:


> OK, first short test ride today....
> BTLOS 30mm rims, shallow version.
> 
> Despite the weight saved, in climbing i didn't find a night/day difference... In the restarts, the accelerations, the first pedal strokes gives you the feel that the bike accelerate faster. At average speed i didn't find relevant differences in performance.
> ...


Pretty much same experience. i order the 25i wheels on DT350 and dropped 700g on my gravel bike. Initial acceleration it's more noticeable - but other than that - not a night/day difference or smashed PRs.

I haven't ordered a set for my MTB yet - but will probably when I build my new bike. It's a good upgrade, still the easiest way to drop a pound or more in one swoop, but almost feels a bit "overrated". Glad I didn't spend the dough on ENVE something similar, though many those owners rave about it....I'm guessing more so on the placebo benefits.


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## Simplydown (Oct 17, 2020)

I placed an order for a wheelset on Nov 28. Got my shipment notification on Dec 23. Better than I expected during the holidays. I selected the value shipping option (Matson ocean shipping handed off to UPS for final delivery) so they should be arriving around beginning of February. Just in time for riding season 

Also FYI I noticed BTLOS is extending their holiday sales from 12/25-1/12 with $60 off wheelset or rims (versus $80 off for BF). Unfortunately it looks like the cheapest Matson shipping option disappeared for now.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I ordered on 11/23 and got a shipping notification 12/23. With Covid and the holidays, I was not really worried and I had planned on seeing the wheels in 2 to 3 months. Looks like I selected UPS and they state it will be 8-12 days before I get them. Which is ahead of what I figured.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

They must have shipped out a bunch in the 23rd, I also got my shipping notification that day. I ordered mine on Nov 21. I won’t be able to really ride them hard though since winter is killing access to the better trails here. I’m very excited though, nothing like a killer set of wheels.


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## Mikbur (Nov 10, 2018)

Following...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

shakazulu12 said:


> I ordered on 11/23 and got a shipping notification 12/23. With Covid and the holidays, I was not really worried and I had planned on seeing the wheels in 2 to 3 months. Looks like I selected UPS and they state it will be 8-12 days before I get them. Which is ahead of what I figured.


On our end, for sure the holidays can be a little slower, but on their end, Chinese New Year is the one to watch out for.


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## we78 (Nov 6, 2009)

After some back and forth communicating with BTLOS over WhatsApp I ordered this wheelset today based on what they had in stock (also added hub 54T ratchet upgrade) and ended up upgrading to the CX-Ray spokes.
Based on my location they recommended sending with FedEx.
I've used the x-mas coupon code for 60$ discount.
Will keep you posted.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Has anyone busted an M-i30AS AM version and under what conditions? I'm debating EN vs AM, 200 pound rider on a 6 inch bike, leaning EN.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Has anyone busted an M-i30AS AM version and under what conditions? I'm debating EN vs AM, 200 pound rider on a 6 inch bike, leaning EN.


Don't have them in hand yet. But I had some conversations about my intended use as an Enduro racing set and bombing chunk and they offered to make them in the DH layup for me. Which I took them up on. It was only a tiny bit more weight and still lighter than my SC Reserve rims. That being said, in your scenario I would get the EN for sure. As soon as I mentioned drops and rock gardens they nixed the idea of the AM ones. If you email them and describe your actual riding conditions, they will recomend something. I actually sent them someone else's footage of an enduro race on youtube on the trails I ride. Sometimes takes them a day or two to respond to the emails, but they always do.

Mine are scheduled for delivery tomorrow and I'll post some thoughts and weights then.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'd do EN.

My front rims are both AM/28h and, to be honest, I wish I had ordered EN all around. My rear is EN/32h.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Is that because you're noticing damage or flex or what?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Is that because you're noticing damage or flex or what?


Not at all. The AM rim rides incredibly smooth on the front of my slack all-mountain hardtail. Plenty stiff, tracks great, seriously smooth over high speed/small bump chop.

The other set is on my full-suspension... They're so dang light that I have it in my head that I'm going to break them


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Good to know. Thanks. 

Does anyone have opinions on shipping methodology in the state of the pandemic? The cheapest option claims 4 to 6 weeks. I have received lightbike rims via EMS in the past, and it ends up in the hands of USPS, which has been fraught of late. The "Air-Shipping" is expensive, but does anyone know who ends up taking over domestically; is it DHL?


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## localn8ve (Feb 16, 2016)

My wheels were shipped via EMS around Thanksgiving. EMS gets transferred to USPS as per your previous experiences. Took only about 1.5 weeks to show up to the West Coast USA.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I went with the free EMS shipping. I ordered the wheels on November 21 and received them two days ago (5th) through UPS. The packaging was great, no evidence of being banged around or miss handled. Mine was UPS from California to Montana.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Ordered 11/23 I think. Received last night. Think I selected EMS, ended up being delivered by UPS.

Also, look great. Came in slightly under what they said they would. That doesn't mean anything until I ride them though. Even with the DH layup on the 30MM shallow rims, they are 250 grams lighter than my Santa Cruz Reserves.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

I ordered the premium symmetric i-25 rims for $404.17 shipped via FedEx before Christmas and had my local bike shop build them up with Onyx Vesper hubs and DT Champion spokes to 100 Kfg. I just got them back today. The bike shop said the rims looked good and were easy to build with no problems. I'll be reporting back as I get some miles on them. The weight of the rims on my food scale matched up to BTLOS advertised weight within 5 grams. The weights shown include rim tape and MucOff valve stems. These wheels are going on a 2021 Epic Evo. I debated buying a full wheel build from BTLOS and had I gone that route I would have purchased DT 240's but I already owned this Onyx Vesper rear hub and wanted to put it to use. Plus the purple looks nice in my opinion.


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## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Good to know. Thanks.
> 
> Does anyone have opinions on shipping methodology in the state of the pandemic? The cheapest option claims 4 to 6 weeks. I have received lightbike rims via EMS in the past, and it ends up in the hands of USPS, which has been fraught of late. The "Air-Shipping" is expensive, but does anyone know who ends up taking over domestically; is it DHL?


I ordered a wheelset on 11/25 and chose the least expensive shipping option ($28 via Matson). I received a shipping confirmation on 12/13 and as of today the wheels are still "In Transit". UPS will handle delivery when they arrive in the US. If the 4-6 week estimate is accurate I'm hoping to see my wheels sometime in the next 2 weeks.


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## Floor Tom (Aug 2, 2012)

My new BTLOS carbon wheels have just arrived and unfortunately they have been built with incorrect spokes. I ordered D-Lights, which were changed to DT Comp Race as they had no D-Lights in stock, but they have come with Sapim Race. I also asked them about DT prolock nipples and was assured that they use "Sapim Pro Lock" nipples which I took to mean Sapim secure lock, but they have come with standard Sapim Polyax.

I have emailed them about it and will update when I get a response.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I rode my new wheel all last week into the weekend. The weekday rides were my commute to work with low roiling resistance tires, the weekend rides were on the trails with a Butcher on the front and Eliminator on the rear, both grid/trail casings. The wheels felt great. They are stiff and transfer the trail to the hands just the way I hoped. It's not a massive difference over the aluminum rims before but more in touch with the terrain. The handling is much better and I think that is mostly because these wheels weigh 867 grams less than my old ones. Acceleration up hill makes me feel like a super hero. I had to take the rebound back a click on the front because it felt just a bit fast or bouncy with the lighter wheel. Manuals are way easier too. The wheels are i29A rims with CXRay spokes and DT 180 hubs and weigh 1370 grams.




  








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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

On my last bike I had a set of WMi30A. I just got a 29er and was thinking I might get a set of the shallow profile WMi30AS. 
Has anyone had both and have any input on if they feel significantly different?


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## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

Floor Tom said:


> My new BTLOS carbon wheels have just arrived and unfortunately they have been built with incorrect spokes. I ordered D-Lights, which were changed to DT Comp Race as they had no D-Lights in stock, but they have come with Sapim Race. I also asked them about DT prolock nipples and was assured that they use "Sapim Pro Lock" nipples which I took to mean Sapim secure lock, but they have come with standard Sapim Polyax.
> 
> I have emailed them about it and will update when I get a response.


Bummer, I also agreed to the DT Comp Race spokes instead of Sapim D-Lights. My wheels haven't arrived yet, so I'll be curious to see which spokes they used.


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## Floor Tom (Aug 2, 2012)

Yeah, just measure them when they arrive, mine were 1.8mm and had s Sapim stamped near the heads so easy to tell what they were.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I just ordered a set of the i30 shallow profile 29er rims. I debated between having them build them up with DT hubs or just getting the rims and having a local shop build the wheels with Project 321 hubs . The value is their built wheels is amazingly good and I have two sets from them that are great. I opted for the custom build in the end, though it will cost me more and won't be as light, but I really like the Project 321 hubs I'm running on my 27.5 bike (quick engagement, light-ish, quiet). I probably should have asked them if they could source the hubs I want. Has anyone else ever done this?

I figured I better get my order in before it gets any closer to CNY...I might have pushed it too close as it is. My bike is due in Feb, so I doubt they'll make it in time 😕.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I have had them (BTLOS) source hubs they didn't list on their site and use them in a custom build. (dt180 exp). Worked out fine in my experience.


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

Ahhhhh i couldnt help my self.. I ordered a set of the WMi27ASs for my soon to be here Spur.. Already have the 30mm wide ones on the sentinel and these are going to save like 300 Gs!! 

Got the DT240exp straight pull hubs.. they just look cool LOL. should be a killer wheelset


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Generally, it would seem the radially shallower/shorter rims are more radially compliant, and I wonder how the BTLOS AS models compare with more premium options. For example, a We Are One Union, which is 30 mm internal width and 21 mm thick radially vs the BTLOS 30AS, which is 30 x 18mm.


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## kenais (Jan 30, 2004)

bizango said:


> I just ordered a set of the i30 shallow profile 29er rims. I debated between having them build them up with DT hubs or just getting the rims and having a local shop build the wheels with Project 321 hubs . The value is their built wheels is amazingly good and I have two sets from them that are great. I opted for the custom build in the end, though it will cost me more and won't be as light, but I really like the Project 321 hubs I'm running on my 27.5 bike (quick engagement, light-ish, quiet). I probably should have asked them if they could source the hubs I want. Has anyone else ever done this?
> 
> I figured I better get my order in before it gets any closer to CNY...I might have pushed it too close as it is. My bike is due in Feb, so I doubt they'll make it in time ?.


They didn't have much for hubs readily available other than DT Swiss when I ordered rims my rims last month, I wanted Hydras and they said 4 months out. It was pretty much the same price to have my builder build with their rims anyway, had the rims shipped directly to him.

I got my shipping notice yesterday, 8-20 day delivery....


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

I ordered mine on Black Friday with the slow/cheapest shipping and got them yesterday. It actually took them longer to make them and ship them than the shipping time, but I'm in no rush as it's a winter project. I also got CXray spokes/nips from them as they were easily $1 cheaper than anywhere over here; now I just have to build them.
I got the 12k weave/matte and the rims are actually gorgeous; next time I'll probably go without stickers. Maybe if they had a cool logo/icon but just having the letters "BTLOS" on my rim is very meh.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Floor Tom said:


> which were changed to DT Comp Race as they had no D-Lights in stock, but they have come with Sapim Race. I also asked them about DT prolock nipples and was assured that they use "Sapim Pro Lock" nipples which I took to mean Sapim secure lock, but they have come with standard Sapim Polyax.


Let it be. When I'm building wheels, I choose Sapim spokes and nipples. I've heard similar from other folks who build wheels professionally.


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## Floor Tom (Aug 2, 2012)

06HokieMTB said:


> Let it be. When I'm building wheels, I choose Sapim spokes and nipples. I've heard similar from other folks who build wheels professionally.


Is not that they are sapim, I was happy to have the d lights, this is to be an xc wheelset and I didn't want it to be so stiff.,so for both of those reasons I wanted d-lights or competition race. I have also had great luck with pro lock nipples in the past and prefer my wheels to have some sort of system to lock the nipples in place. I guess I could spoke freeze them but that's a bit of a full on solution, I would far rather use pro lock nipples.


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## squak (Feb 13, 2006)

Floor Tom said:


> Is not that they are sapim, I was happy to have the d lights, this is to be an xc wheelset and I didn't want it to be so stiff.,so for both of those reasons I wanted d-lights or competition race. I have also had great luck with pro lock nipples in the past and prefer my wheels to have some sort of system to lock the nipples in place. I guess I could spoke freeze them but that's a bit of a full on solution, I would far rather use pro lock nipples.


I didn't really consider stiffness when choosing spokes, I just went with the D-Lights (changed to DT Comp Race) based on weight. If I end up with the Sapim Race spokes the wheels should only be 50-60 grams heavier and possibly a little bit stiffer (not sure if I'd notice either). My wheels are scheduled to arrive early next week so I guess I'll find out then. Did you get a response from BTLOS?


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## Floor Tom (Aug 2, 2012)

squak said:


> I didn't really consider stiffness when choosing spokes, I just went with the D-Lights (changed to DT Comp Race) based on weight. If I end up with the Sapim Race spokes the wheels should only be 50-60 grams heavier and possibly a little bit stiffer (not sure if I'd notice either). My wheels are scheduled to arrive early next week so I guess I'll find out then. Did you get a response from BTLOS?


Weight was my primary reason for choosing the d-lights as well. They have apologised and asked what I would like, I have asked them to send me the correct spokes and refund me the cost of two wheel builds at my local shop. I don't think that is unreasonable so hopefully they will do that.
They said their wheel builder made a mistake so hopefully it is an isolated incident and yours come with the correct spokes.


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## we78 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ordered 27.12 -> Received 17.01, shipped with FedEx.
Christmas was on the way so overall a quick turnaround (faster than it took my LBS to get me the bike I ordered, waiting since September).

I received the wheels today. They were super professionally packaged.
They look great and are super light.
Unfortunately, my bike will arrive in a month, so the review will have to wait.
Throughout the entire process BTLOS were very responsive and it was very convenient to communicate with them over WhatsApp messenger.



we78 said:


> After some back and forth communicating with BTLOS over WhatsApp I ordered this wheelset today based on what they had in stock (also added hub 54T ratchet upgrade) and ended up upgrading to the CX-Ray spokes.
> Based on my location they recommended sending with FedEx.
> I've used the x-mas coupon code for 60$ discount.
> Will keep you posted.
> View attachment 1908731


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Those that got free shipping to the US, what shipping method did they use?


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

Finished the winter project, but still have most of winter left.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I just got a notice from Amy that my rims won't be completed prior to the CNY break. I kinda figured that I was pushing my luck with the timing of my order. It's not a big deal for me because I am not in a huge rush and have another set of (heavier) wheels to use for my build in the meantime. My main reason for posting this is that it is good service on their part to proactively give me the notification of the delay due to the holiday rather than be silent or make a false promise. I work with suppliers at work all of the time and you can plan with accurate information even if it isn't good news. You get into trouble when places don't communicate or do so with overly optimistic assessments.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

BTW @Roy, nice looking wheels!


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

rstark18 said:


> Those that got free shipping to the US, what shipping method did they use?


Once it was received at the US shore in California the wheels were shipped by UPS to my door in Montana. The overall time from placing the order to arriving at my door was 6 weeks and one day. The packing was great and the wheels made it to me as true as when they left the factory according to the tag they shipped with them that gives the trueness after the build.


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## unibrau (Mar 13, 2012)

So I’m on the fence about order the new WM-i27AS or the 30mm set for my new spur. Amy recommended the 30mm, but I’m wondering if that’s overkill for our Wisconsin trails. We have lots of rocks and roots, but not any sizable jumps. What would you guys do?


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## darrylruddock (Oct 17, 2019)

unibrau said:


> So I'm on the fence about order the new WM-i27AS or the 30mm set for my new spur. Amy recommended the 30mm, but I'm wondering if that's overkill for our Wisconsin trails. We have lots of rocks and roots, but not any sizable jumps. What would you guys do?


I'm trying do decide the exact same thing for my RIpley and keep going back and forth between 27 and 30mm although i am likely going with another source. If you are primarily concerned with weight and have lots of areas that have tight corners to accelerate out of etc I would go 27mm. If they are mostly faster with more DH with more Gnar go with the 30's. My problem is my local trails have a even mix or both but I'm leaning toward 30's.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

bizango said:


> I just got a notice from Amy that my rims won't be completed prior to the CNY break. I kinda figured that I was pushing my luck with the timing of my order. It's not a big deal for me because I am not in a huge rush and have another set of (heavier) wheels to use for my build in the meantime. My main reason for posting this is that it is good service on their part to proactively give me the notification of the delay due to the holiday rather than be silent or make a false promise. I work with suppliers at work all of the time and you can plan with accurate information even if it isn't good news. You get into trouble when places don't communicate or do so with overly optimistic assessments.


I ordered after you I think (01/17) and I was told a few days ago that they were shipping next week. Maybe I'll get a message later today say otherwise.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

unibrau said:


> So I'm on the fence about order the new WM-i27AS or the 30mm set for my new spur. Amy recommended the 30mm, but I'm wondering if that's overkill for our Wisconsin trails. We have lots of rocks and roots, but not any sizable jumps. What would you guys do?


What width tires do you like? If 2.4 or less, 27mm probably the better option.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

rstark18 said:


> I ordered after you I think (01/17) and I was told a few days ago that they were shipping next week. Maybe I'll get a message later today say otherwise.


It may be the exact rim specs. She was clear mine weren't in stock and had to be made. I ordered the WM-i30AS, 29", AM, UD, 28H, Premium, matte clear coat, gray decals. Hopefully yours ship on time.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

unibrau said:


> So I'm on the fence about order the new WM-i27AS or the 30mm set for my new spur. Amy recommended the 30mm, but I'm wondering if that's overkill for our Wisconsin trails. We have lots of rocks and roots, but not any sizable jumps. What would you guys do?


I debated this as well for my Ripley. I went with the 30mm, though I'm sure the 27mm would be fine. I couldn't rule out the possiblity of running 2.6s, so the 30mm made more sense. If you're only running 2.4s or less, the 27mm should be fine. My gf has the 27mm and 2.35 Schwalbes fit great on them. She noticed an improvement in handling vs the stock 35mm alum ibis rims (not the weight, but the profile change in the tire).

I want to try 2.25 Rocket Rons on the 30mm...I hope they work. The 2.6 Rocket Rons on my 27.5 bike are amazingly fast rolling yet predictable in handling. Super aggressive riders in loose terrain probably wouldn't be satisfied with them, but they have struck a nice balance for my use. I have 2.6 Teravails that I am going to start with though.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

bizango said:


> It may be the exact rim specs. She was clear mine weren't in stock and had to be made. I ordered the WM-i30AS, 29", AM, UD, 28H, Premium, matte clear coat, gray decals. Hopefully yours ship on time.


Almost the exact same wheel. I ordered the non-premium. I've had good luck in the past with their non-premium wheels.


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## unibrau (Mar 13, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> What width tires do you like? If 2.4 or less, 27mm probably the better option.


max tire size according to transition is 2.4" so it sounds like I might as well stick with the 27mm I guess


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## staind (Sep 17, 2004)

on the same dilemma. might go with 30mm since i'm 190lbs and ride aggressively.

but still deciding if premium or non-premium and finish. since i'm on a budget, will go with DT 350 with 36T or 54T.


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

unibrau said:


> max tire size according to transition is 2.4" so it sounds like I might as well stick with the 27mm I guess


I got a spur also and ordered the 27mm.. i wanted it lighter and don't plan on running 2.6 tires. I got the 30mm on the sentinel. I weight 200ish suited up and after riding the 30mm wide rims im sure the 27mm wide is more then strong enough.

The 27mm just shipped out 3 days ago so hopefully i get them soon!!!


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Anyone compared these side by side with say a good alloy rim like DT XR/XM/EX?


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

bizango said:


> I just got a notice from Amy that my rims won't be completed prior to the CNY break. I kinda figured that I was pushing my luck with the timing of my order. It's not a big deal for me because I am not in a huge rush and have another set of (heavier) wheels to use for my build in the meantime. My main reason for posting this is that it is good service on their part to proactively give me the notification of the delay due to the holiday rather than be silent or make a false promise. I work with suppliers at work all of the time and you can plan with accurate information even if it isn't good news. You get into trouble when places don't communicate or do so with overly optimistic assessments.


Huh, I just got a shipping notice! I guess it's a case of under promising and over delivering. Sweet!


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

bizango said:


> Huh, I just got a shipping notice! I guess it's a case of under promising and over delivering. Sweet!


Got my notice also.


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## radam25 (Jun 17, 2010)

Are there any discount codes for btlos currently?


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

radam25 said:


> Are there any discount codes for btlos currently?


When I ordered my first set back in 2019 I had no problem getting a discount. When I asked Amy for the same discount this time she initially said ok but came back the next day and said the manager wouldn't approve it as their margins are too slim currently.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

bizango said:


> Huh, I just got a shipping notice! I guess it's a case of under promising and over delivering. Sweet!


Mine arrived today. Crazy how fast the came...I don't even have my hubs ordered yet because I thought I had time! I selected FedEx, and even though it was a little bit more I think that payed off. I don't remember having the option to select different carriers on previous orders. The last two orders took the better part of a month just for shipping (I think they lingered at a dock or in customs somewhere).

I did a push test to see how much they flexed under load and you could definitely see them move. I didn't push crazy hard...maybe 40-50 lbs or so. Not sure if that will translate to a noticeably compliant ride or not. I'm still toying with the idea of building with Berd spokes, but we'll see.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

bizango said:


> Mine arrived today. Crazy how fast the came...I don't even have my hubs ordered yet because I thought I had time! I selected FedEx, and even though it was a little bit more I think that payed off. I don't remember having the option to select different carriers on previous orders. The last two orders took the better part of a month just for shipping (I think they lingered at a dock or in customs somewhere).
> 
> I did a push test to see how much they flexed under load and you could definitely see them move. I didn't push crazy hard...maybe 40-50 lbs or so. Not sure if that will translate to a noticeably compliant ride or not. I'm still toying with the idea of building with Berd spokes, but we'll see.


Lol mine haven't even left China yet. They are at the airport. EMS shipping.


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## djr21589 (Oct 23, 2020)

Useful information from BTLOS RE DT Swiss 350/240 hubs. I asked if they had 240 or 350 in CL Jbend. 

For 350 she said: "Currently no. I just asked. Because the Dt swiss will release new version of 350 hubs. So no agent stock the center lock j bend hubs"

For 240: Yes on J-bend for 6bolt, but no on Jbend for CL.

Hopefully it's helpful. Interested to see if they bring the ratchet EXP to the 350s.


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

Just built up a set of BTLOS i30AS 29 32 hole premium/AM. They look really good and the rims came in at 380 gms. 
They have the same ERD as my old go-to Velocity Blunt SS, so I was able to swap them on and just replace the nips. Wheels turned out great and they ride really well. They have a quieter and more damped feel than the aluminum rims with the same tires. 

2 rims were $470, shipped.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

djr21589 said:


> Useful information from BTLOS RE DT Swiss 350/240 hubs. I asked if they had 240 or 350 in CL Jbend.
> 
> For 350 she said: "Currently no. I just asked. Because the Dt swiss will release new version of 350 hubs. So no agent stock the center lock j bend hubs"
> 
> ...


Yeah I've noticed stock levels locally waning on the 350. I was wondering whether an update is coming.


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## tjmac44 (Aug 22, 2020)

My wheelset is stuck in this status:

Your item has been processed through our facility in ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) at 3:31 pm on February 12, 2021. 

This is not problem of BTLOS. Wish I would have chosen FEDEX. From what I understand there nothing I can do but sit and wait.


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## djr21589 (Oct 23, 2020)

There’s been so much discussion regarding the selection/purchasing process. What I’m more curious about is for those that have actually used, hucked, raced, jumped, smashed through rock garden, bashed into roots with them, what do you think?


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## tjmac44 (Aug 22, 2020)

djr21589 said:


> There's been so much discussion regarding the selection/purchasing process. What I'm more curious about is for those that have actually used, hucked, raced, jumped, smashed through rock garden, bashed into roots with them, what do you think?


Hopefully the lack of reports indicate that the wheels just plain work. I am sure if they were junk this board will be lit up.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I paid $660 for dt350 carbon 30mm I’d. Weight was 1700. 32 hole. Haven’t smashed them, but bang for the buck is really good. If you smash, good luck on anything.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

Got my WM-i30AS today (02/19). 
They shipped on the on the 6th and was transferred to USPS this morning. I was surprised they were delivered so quick. 

Out of the box without tape or valves they weigh 1545g. This set did not come with a weight/trueness tag. Did they stop doing this? My last set came with them. 

I went with the standard layup as opposed to the premium. I did this with my last set also and was impressed and that’s why I went with that this time. The finish isn’t as good as my first set. Many more imperfections on the rim bed. The outside of the rim is fine. 
As long as they hold up the imperfections don’t bother me at all. Hopefully it won’t be an issue.


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## DETarch (Feb 26, 2011)

djr21589 said:


> There's been so much discussion regarding the selection/purchasing process. What I'm more curious about is for those that have actually used, hucked, raced, jumped, smashed through rock garden, bashed into roots with them, what do you think?


1200+ miles on mine without a single issue. Mileage split between an SB150 and SB130 over lots of rocky Southern California riding. Plenty of dings and scratches on the rims attest to my sloppy technique! Not much jumping, but plenty of hard technical riding. Mine are i29a rims laced to 28H DT 240 hubs. Haven't touched the spokes/nipples, and have only cleaned/re-greased the star ratchet a couple times.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

DETarch said:


> 1200+ miles on mine without a single issue. Mileage split between an SB150 and SB130 over lots of rocky Southern California riding. Plenty of dings and scratches on the rims attest to my sloppy technique! Not much jumping, but plenty of hard technical riding. Mine are i29a rims laced to 28H DT 240 hubs. Haven't touched the spokes/nipples, and have only cleaned/re-greased the star ratchet a couple times.


Sounds like we have the same wheels. I'm pushing 1500 miles on my i29a/DT 240 hubs, although I have 32 spokes instead of 28. There are all sorts of scratches on the rims, but I haven't had to tune mine yet. All I've done is basic servicing of the star ratchets in the hubs. I'd buy again from BTLOS without a second thought.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

djr21589 said:


> There's been so much discussion regarding the selection/purchasing process. What I'm more curious about is for those that have actually used, hucked, raced, jumped, smashed through rock garden, bashed into roots with them, what do you think?


My last set was WM-i30A in 27.5. I put a little over 1000mi on them before I sold them with my bike (Giant Trance 2). 
I ride in SoCal so lots of high speed rocky trails. My line choice ability is not very wheel friendly so I had some scratches. A few of my regular trails have some high speed 2 and 3 ft jumps mostly to flat at 25mph (Jedi). Air pressures were 24/26psi no Cushcore. 
With all that said when I sold the bike the wheels were as true as the day I got them without ever touching the spokes with a wrench. The guy I sold the bike to ended up giving the bike to his son and emailed me saying he got another bike for himself but loves the wheels so much that he was going to buy a set.

I just received my 29er set and I'm waiting for some tape to arrive to get them on my bike.


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## dantae (Dec 5, 2019)

Can someone please share their experience compared to other North American branded carbon wheels, do these ride harsher?
Also if you switched from aluminum wheels, I would love to know your impressions, I am especially concerned about ride harshness. My trails are non-stop rocky and rooty.

Are most people picking aluminum or brass nipples? Thanks


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

I think that with a given weight and depth, you can assume that ride characteristics will be somewhat similar. The new shallow depth rims exist to address the issue of harshness. At least that is the marketing.

My experience is rebuilding a set of wheels and moving from a Velocity Blunt SS to a BTLOS M-i30AS. Same spokes, same nipples (new but same type), same hubs. Besides loosing 2 oz and gaining 4mm in width, they are very similar. The main difference I notice is some lateral stiffness, such as hard cornering or landing a jump a little sideways. That feels more solid now. Over root and rock chatter, they feel similar to the old rims but they are quieter and more damped feeling. My only concern is rock strikes on the surface. I had several dents on my old rims. Curious to see how the cabin rims hold up to that.

I always use aluminum nips. I really like CN Quad alloy nipples or Sapim Double Square, if I can find them. The ability to drive them from the rim side with a tool makes wheel building much faster.


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## RobertRinAustin (Dec 16, 2020)

dantae said:


> Can someone please share their experience compared to other North American branded carbon wheels, do these ride harsher?
> Also if you switched from aluminum wheels, I would love to know your impressions, I am especially concerned about ride harshness. My trails are non-stop rocky and rooty.
> 
> Are most people picking aluminum or brass nipples? Thanks


Have e13 aluminum, Stan's carbon and the new Btlos lowpro. Btlos are more compliant and less harsh than Stan's but still track better than e13s. Btlos are XC lite weight wheels and the other 2 are heavier profiles. I notice the differences most riding through technical trails with rocks and roots. The carbon wheels hold the line much better with the Stan's being harsher.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

so ive been running a set of btlos wm i34AS and there great but i only have one gripe... if i grab the wheel i can really easily pull the wheel in one direction with what feels not that much effort ? they have never felt stiff to me while riding feel no different to me than my ibis s35 alloy wheelset bar they pick speed up a tad quicker... no stiffer that's for sure kind of a let down really when there marketed as being stiff, can you increase spoke tension to make them stiffer? maybe i should have gone for the wm i34 more traditional profile?


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I have the traditional profile i29 and they stiff. I think the trend toward compliance is good and bad, personally I wanted a stiff rim so I stayed with the “old” profile.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

turner_nz said:


> so ive been running a set of btlos wm i34AS and there great but i only have one gripe... if i grab the wheel i can really easily pull the wheel in one direction with what feels not that much effort ? they have never felt stiff to me while riding feel no different to me than my ibis s35 alloy wheelset bar they pick speed up a tad quicker... no stiffer that's for sure kind of a let down really when there marketed as being stiff, can you increase spoke tension to make them stiffer? maybe i should have gone for the wm i34 more traditional profile?


Lateral and torsional stiffness are linked more to spokes, spoke lacing, and to a lesser degree spoke tension (granted you have wheels that are within a save window). The Asymmetric profile if anything, should allow you to add a material amount of tension on the low tension side of a wheel, and this certainly won't be a factor that works against you.

What spokes were used, and are they build three cross, or two cross?


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

hey mjw they have Sapim CX-Ray spokes j bent and spokes cross 3 times, i just remember when i had a demo on a ripmo af with an ibis s35 carbon wheelset how awesome it was holding a line in the rough and i felt i could make small changes and the bike would respond so quickly, but i never felt that with this wheelset just feel the same as the s35 allot wheelset just quicker out of corners and better for climbing. also i asked btlos for a heavier carbon rear rim but they put 450 gram rims front and back. at the end of the day there a nice wheelset just abit too much compliance from what i imagined they would be, i wanted more stiff precision. be great wheelset on a stiff carbon frame i'd imagine i'm running a ripmo af frameset.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

turner_nz said:


> hey mjw they have Sapim CX-Ray spokes j bent and spokes cross 3 times, i just remember when i had a demo on a ripmo af with an ibis s35 carbon wheelset how awesome it was holding a line in the rough and i felt i could make small changes and the bike would respond so quickly, but i never felt that with this wheelset just feel the same as the s35 allot wheelset just quicker out of corners and better for climbing. also i asked btlos for a heavier carbon rear rim but they put 450 gram rims front and back. at the end of the day there a nice wheelset just abit too much compliance from what i imagined they would be, i wanted more stiff precision. be great wheelset on a stiff carbon frame i'd imagine i'm running a ripmo af frameset.


One more followup. What spokes and lacing pattern on the s35 wheels?


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

on my alloy s35 was 3 also, i did a little test when i got them pulled sideways with a bike scales to a certain kg reading on the meter and i got nearly the same flex result cant remember the numbers now ive also sold the s35 alloy wheelset now and i have no idea how legit that test was...


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

turner_nz said:


> hey mjw they have Sapim CX-Ray spokes j bent and spokes cross 3 times, i just remember when i had a demo on a ripmo af with an ibis s35 carbon wheelset how awesome it was holding a line in the rough and i felt i could make small changes and the bike would respond so quickly, but i never felt that with this wheelset just feel the same as the s35 allot wheelset just quicker out of corners and better for climbing. also i asked btlos for a heavier carbon rear rim but they put 450 gram rims front and back. at the end of the day there a nice wheelset just abit too much compliance from what i imagined they would be, i wanted more stiff precision. be great wheelset on a stiff carbon frame i'd imagine i'm running a ripmo af frameset.


If you can, check spoke tension. If its under 100 KGF, then upping the tension may help.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

drjos said:


> If you can, check spoke tension. If its under 100 KGF, then upping the tension may help.


ok so i just checked with my x-tools spoke tension meter brand new never used it haha, wheels are measuring between 25-26 points front to 28 points rear i may have to take a better reading i just tried 3 spokes on each wheel but according to my spoke tension manual on a 2.3x0.9 spoke 25 converts too 66kgf and 29 is 92 kgf .


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I found my asym i30s to be under tensioned, especially on the NDS back, DS front.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

so had my brothers 2021 slash 8 at my house and even his Bontrager wheelset is hella more sturdy then my btlos quiet disappointed.


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## RobertRinAustin (Dec 16, 2020)

turner_nz said:


> so had my brothers 2021 slash 8 at my house and even his Bontrager wheelset is hella more sturdy then my btlos quiet disappointed.


I don't get it. You bought the low profile rim which was specifically designed to be more flexible and you're not happy because it's too flexible? Seems to me you bought the wrong rims.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

RobertRinAustin said:


> I don't get it. You bought the low profile rim which was specifically designed to be more flexible and you're not happy because it's too flexible? Seems to me you bought the wrong rims.


Well that has become obvious to me now, i was led to believe with the knowledge i had going off the ibis s35 carbon profile having ridden that and it felt stiffer and being a similar profile and btlos labelling them as an "enduro" wheelset I thought it would be stiff enough and i didn't want a harsh wheelset but not this flexy. Im not a big heavy guy either at 165lb 75kg i ride fairly hard. So yeah it looks like more i got the wrong set and I've come to realise this by the help here and real life experiences. I guess i just didnt expect carbon to flex this much has it in my head or was super stiff. Well i guess it just Sucks for me then doesn't it.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread - what's the spoke count of your wheels? That will affect the stiffness.


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

bizango said:


> I didn't see it mentioned in this thread - what's the spoke count of your wheels? That will affect the stiffness.


32 front and back


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## Floor Tom (Aug 2, 2012)

There is something wrong here, unless they are built with very skinny spokes there is no way a 36 spoke carbon when should be noticeably flexier that a bontrager wheel (I am assuming 28 spokes here since most bonti wheels are)
Can you have a local shop check the spoke tension for you? 
What hubs are they on? Are you sure it's not the frame that is flexing?


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

Floor Tom said:


> There is something wrong here, unless they are built with very skinny spokes there is no way a 36 spoke carbon when should be noticeably flexier that a bontrager wheel (I am assuming 28 spokes here since most bonti wheels are)
> Can you have a local shop check the spoke tension for you?
> What hubs are they on? Are you sure it's not the frame that is flexing?


bonti rims are 28 yes and my btlos is running 240 exp hubs and nah not the frame as i even put the wheel into my brother slash to try and it was still flexy as.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

turner_nz said:


> bonti rims are 28 yes and my btlos is running 240 exp hubs and nah not the frame as i even put the wheel into my brother slash to try and it was still flexy as.





turner_nz said:


> hey mjw they have Sapim CX-Ray spokes j bent and spokes cross 3 times


So maybe the CX-Ray spokes is where the flex is coming from. I understand those are very strong spokes, but they are forged flat from thin 1.5mm Sapim Laser spokes. Perhaps thicker, stiffer spokes (like 1.8mm Race, or even 1.65mm D-light) are a better choice for those rims?

Edit: All of the Ibis shallow rim wheels, including the carbon ones, are built with thicker D-light spokes, btw.




__





Details - Ibis Cycles Inc.







www.ibiscycles.com


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Just FYI on current ship times.
Ordered 2/20 and chose EMS air. Received the wheelset on 4/23.

Shallow 30mm en with 350’s and cx came in at 1585g


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

turner_nz said:


> ok so i just checked with my x-tools spoke tension meter brand new never used it haha, wheels are measuring between 25-26 points front to 28 points rear i may have to take a better reading i just tried 3 spokes on each wheel but according to my spoke tension manual on a 2.3x0.9 spoke 25 converts too 66kgf and 29 is 92 kgf .


Did you re-tension the spokes?

"so ive been running a set of btlos wm i34AS and there great but i only have one gripe... if i grab the wheel i can really easily pull the wheel in one direction with what feels not that much effort"

^Sounds like the flexing is @ the spokes. I just built a WM-i30AS Premium and it is laterally stiffer than the DT XM481 it replaced. I went into the garage and gave a lateral pull to my E-13 Carbon's and the BTLOs and nothing registered flex. Who built your wheelset?


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

i've never tensioned a wheel before so abit apprehensive to do so myself but i might give it a go i mean i cant go to wrong with the tension meter right ? any tips ? like do i turn every nipple the exact same amount say quarter turn to start with then fine tune from there ? and interesting thought yeah maybe it is coming from the thinner spokes ? but then they where labeled DH in there description so thought they must be the best. i really like the wheelset but just want it stiffer! i picked up a bontrager line comp 30 wheelset taken off a slash yesterday off facebook market place for a steal of 180 usd so there plan b if i sell the btlos.... which i really dont want too but maybe i just stuffed up with what i odered.... thanks for the help guys really helps the process out... oh and btlos built the wheelset


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

turner_nz said:


> i've never tensioned a wheel before so abit apprehensive to do so myself but i might give it a go i mean i cant go to wrong with the tension meter right ? any tips ? like do i turn every nipple the exact same amount say quarter turn to start with then fine tune from there ? and interesting thought yeah maybe it is coming from the thinner spokes ? but then they where labeled DH in there description so thought they must be the best. i really like the wheelset but just want it stiffer! i picked up a bontrager line comp 30 wheelset taken off a slash yesterday off facebook market place for a steal of 180 usd so there plan b if i sell the btlos.... which i really dont want too but maybe i just stuffed up with what i odered.... thanks for the help guys really helps the process out... oh and btlos built the wheelset


An inexpensive tension meter could get you in trouble. My advice would be to bring the wheels to your LBS for a tension / true checkup. As a paying customer (depending on the LBS) they may be able to give you some tensioning advice.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

X-ray spokes build up plenty stiff. I tension my carbon builds up to 120kgf on the high side. 66kgf on the low side is really low as mine typically fall somewhere between 112-115. I wager all your movement is spoke tension. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

this might give a better indication of the flex with the calipers its about 6-7mm


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

turner_nz said:


> i've never tensioned a wheel before so abit apprehensive to do so myself but i might give it a go i mean i cant go to wrong with the tension meter right ? any tips ? like do i turn every nipple the exact same amount say quarter turn to start with then fine tune from there ? and interesting thought yeah maybe it is coming from the thinner spokes ? but then they where labeled DH in there description so thought they must be the best. i really like the wheelset but just want it stiffer! i picked up a bontrager line comp 30 wheelset taken off a slash yesterday off facebook market place for a steal of 180 usd so there plan b if i sell the btlos.... which i really dont want too but maybe i just stuffed up with what i odered.... thanks for the help guys really helps the process out... oh and btlos built the wheelset


First, and most important, make sure your tensionmeter has a calibration for a .9x2.2 spoke. Assuming it does, do a quarter turn on each spoke all the way around and remeasure. If the tension is not even from spoke to spoke on the same side, try to get that balanced before bringing the tension up. Finally your centering of the wheel may change as you bring up the tension, so you may have to compensate by tightening or loosening one side more than the other.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

turner_nz said:


> this might give a better indication of the flex with the calipers its about 6-7mm


This has just got to be due to really low spoke tension. No rim flexes like that when properly tensioned. A new, overworked guy at BTLOS must have built your wheels.


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## MTB Engineer (Feb 15, 2021)

92kgf let alone 66kgf is VERY low spoke tension. The CX-Ray is forged flat and a very strong spoke, but it needs to be tensioned properly to work just like any spoke. Check the maximum tension BTLOS and your hub manufacturer permits (usually 110-120khf) take the lower value and tension the drive side to that tension and NDS as close as possible. Otherwise you’re relying on the rim alone for tension and that just doesn’t work.


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yeah, that spoke tension looks way low. I just built a set of wheels with the i30AS rims, CXRay spokes, and DT240 straight pulls. I went to 110 kg spoke tension on drive side. Non drive side was around 90 ish. My wheels are way stiffer looking than yours and ride excellent. Do yourself a favor and get a spoke tension meter. It’s easy to use and removes all the mystery. Really worth the money.

How many rides on those anyway? Did they loosen up or did they come like that? I used the sapim nipples with the locking. Great nips.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

turner_nz said:


> this might give a better indication of the flex with the calipers its about 6-7mm


Wow that's terrible

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## turner_nz (Nov 17, 2017)

I've been riding them for 6 months and they have been like this from day one... I have a x tools spoke tension meter brand new like the one in the link below. Ive never really tried tensioning spokes but think I'll give it a go


xtools spoke tension meter - Google Search


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Personally, and this is just me, but with your spokes that loose I would probably just start over. I'd back all the nipples off until they were flush with the tip of your spoke, and begin in the process of building a wheel from there. That said built properly with cx-ray spokes I'm sure your wheels will be just fine. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

Just get the sides up to the tension you want; then you'll need to true from there.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

For those who've ordered from BTLOS, did you receive a notice when your items had shipped (and a tracking number)?
Or were you in the dark the whole time, from when you placed the order until it arrived at your ship address?


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

A. Rider said:


> For those who've ordered from BTLOS, did you receive a notice when your items had shipped (and a tracking number)?
> Or were you in the dark the whole time, from when you placed the order until it arrived at your ship address?


Both times I ordered I received a tracking number when it shipped.


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## jvm051 (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm waiting for my wheels as well. Ordered in early March. Supposedly shipped on April 7th and has said it's at origin post preparing shipment since the 8th of April. BTLOS has said its coming but not sure why it's been a month now without delivery, and no movement since then.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

jvm051 said:


> I'm waiting for my wheels as well. Ordered in early March. Supposedly shipped on April 7th and has said it's at origin post preparing shipment since the 8th of April. BTLOS has said its coming but not sure why it's been a month now without delivery, and no movement since then.


What shipping option did you pick? The first couple of times I ordered I don't remember having an option on shipping, but it did take forever. I think things get jugged up at the port in China. The last order I placed I selected FedEx and it was WAY faster, but it did cost a bit more.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

If you got the shipping notice then that means the wheels left the factory and are headed to the us port. When it gets to the port and then UPS or Fed Ex or whatever company takes it from there you will then get the actual notice of when it will be delivered. It may be a while before the wheels hit a US port because of all the pandemic mayhem.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

so has anyone cancelled their btlos order? they keep saying my wheels are in "manufacturing". However when I ordered them it acted like they were in stock. She is saying because I got the extralight version that those take longer, but there's no mention of that anywhere on their site.

I am nervous about 2 things with btlos as well:
1. it seems like the people that have had to do warranty claims end up basically having to pay the cost of a new rim regardless. 
2. most people's actual weights of their wheelset are coming in much higher than advertise weight.

I am thinking about going with these instead:








Roval Control 29 Carbon 6B XD | Specialized.com


Elevating Weekend Hot Laps to World Cup XC Status From weekend hot laps to World Cup XC finals, the Control Carbon combines the low weight and strength found in our world-beating Control SL rim with the new DT Swiss 350 hubs. An unmatched level of durability, precision, and performance in this...




www.specialized.com





Pros:

specialized has an outstanding warranty and has never gave me any fuss with anything of theirs that needed warranty in my past experience
they are actually in stock and ship immediately
same width within 1mm
rovals are historically great wheels

Cons:

they are 120.00 more than my build, but I am willing to pay that to have the wheels immediate and a no fuss warranty
on paper they are about 80g heavier than the supposed build of btlos that I am getting but with the feedback of other btlos purchasers it sounds like their weights are typically higher than advertise
6 blot (6blot sucks compared to CL IMO)

Thoughts?


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## Simplydown (Oct 17, 2020)

Man my wheels came in right on spec. I've been super pleased with them. Would definitely get them again.

Ordered: 11/28/20
Shipped: 12/23/20
Received: 1/25/21

Spec Weight: 1458g
Actual Weight: 1460g

Total cost (including shipping) with BF discount: $870

Build Spec:









Front wheel:









Rear wheel:


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

combfilter said:


> so has anyone cancelled their btlos order? they keep saying my wheels are in "manufacturing". However when I ordered them it acted like they were in stock. She is saying because I got the extralight version that those take longer, but there's no mention of that anywhere on their site.
> 
> I am nervous about 2 things with btlos as well:
> 1. it seems like the people that have had to do warranty claims end up basically having to pay the cost of a new rim regardless.
> ...


I ordered rims only and they shipped within a week. I am guessing that other wheel parts are the holdup. As for weight, mine came in 5gm under advertised. I would buy again.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

drjos said:


> I ordered rims only and they shipped within a week. I am guessing that other wheel parts are the holdup. As for weight, mine came in 5gm under advertised. I would buy again.


I ordered rims only and they said 13 days to manufacture. It took almost a month before they shipped, but they upgraded my shipping from EMS to UPS and tracking says they're supposed to arrive next week.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

My rims took 3-4 weeks to make but I wasn't in a hurry. They came in 5 grams lighter than the estimate.

If the Specialized rims are $120, that's basically the cost of another rim so you're just paying the replacement up front whether you need it or not. No free lunch. Buy whichever one you are more comfortable with; get past the paralysis by analysis.


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

On my latest set I ordered Sapim CX Ray straight pull spokes. I’ve never used blades spokes before so I’m looking for a little guidance. 
My front wheel looks fine but my rear wheel has some spokes that are not laying flat. Where they cross they are at a slight angle to the other spoke. I see this on two separate sets of spokes. I assume this is why I still get some pinging at the start of a ride. 
I don’t have a bladed spoke holder. Can I just use a taped crescent wrench?
Do I hold the nipple while I turn the spoke or just turn the spoke?


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

rstark18 said:


> On my latest set I ordered Sapim CX Ray straight pull spokes. I've never used blades spokes before so I'm looking for a little guidance.
> My front wheel looks fine but my rear wheel has some spokes that are not laying flat. Where they cross they are at a slight angle to the other spoke. I see this on two separate sets of spokes. I assume this is why I still get some pinging at the start of a ride.
> I don't have a bladed spoke holder. Can I just use a taped crescent wrench?
> Do I hold the nipple while I turn the spoke or just turn the spoke?


A crescent wrench might work. There are flat blade spoke tools. I use the DT version. In the end, they are much nicer as you know when you have windup and you can fix it,


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## rstark18 (Apr 10, 2006)

drjos said:


> A crescent wrench might work. There are flat blade spoke tools. I use the DT version. In the end, they are much nicer as you know when you have windup and you can fix it,


So is there anything special I should know to correct the windup?

[edit] Never mind I found my answer on a Tech Tuesday video (#7).


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

What drjos said. I like the plastic tools over the crescent (or tape wrapped needle nose pliers, etc..) because they are much smaller and no risk of scratching the spoke, but that's just my preference. The fact that bladed spokes with a tool will totally eliminate spoke windup means I doubt I'll ever build a non-bladed wheel again. Sooooo much easier. Again, just my preference (just like I prefer building with asym rims).


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just built up some BTLOS i30 shallows on DT240's with cXRays straight pulls. I used all mountain weight rim in front and enduro weight in back.

The flat spokes are really easy to build with IMO. Love these wheels.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

Ordered 4/21/2021 - Arrived 5/26/2021. Was told 14 days to manufacture. I got the following for XC/Trail riding. I am 63kg. They came in @ 1344g so just around 20g over advertised which is what their +- range was. Calipers show 30.0xxxx give or take so IW is true to width as well. Now I just need to check my DT Swiss Serial number since I got the ratchet exp and see if my hubs are in the batch of recalled DT's.

Build quality seems good, wont be able to test ride for a bit due to rain being non stop here in the south.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

FYI for anyone ordering DT Swiss 240 Ratchet EXP hub from BTLOS. My hub was NOT in the production run's of the recalled dt 240's.. Which means the BTLOS 240's they have are probably newer and have the newer internals with increased surface quality. I had the "1" in the middle of my production code. This does not mean that you still shouldn't check, just kind of good news for future and current orders.


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## siejak12 (Mar 18, 2019)

I received my i27as coating free extralight xc yesterday, It took exactly 30 days from ordering to receiving the package, the rims have an inner dimension of 25.8mm on the outside of 33mm. 1190g on photo 👌


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

Hi there - I'm looking at building up a set of M-i29A rims from BTLOS. For those of you that built with them, would you use the ERD they have stated on their site? Reason I'm asking is that I'm also considering ordering CX Rays or D-Lights from them at the same time, so I'd like to see if that ERD is accurate. They are showing 551mm for a 27.5 rim, but it also says "does not include the nipple", so I'm not sure if that number isn't the one you'd put into one of the standard spoke calculators. I use Sapim spokes and polyax nipples.

Thanks!


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## jCheng (Oct 6, 2020)

combfilter said:


> FYI for anyone ordering DT Swiss 240 Ratchet EXP hub from BTLOS. My hub was NOT in the production run's of the recalled dt 240's.. Which means the BTLOS 240's they have are probably newer and have the newer internals with increased surface quality. I had the "1" in the middle of my production code. This does not mean that you still shouldn't check, just kind of good news for future and current orders.


I ordered a set of 180s EXP and they were the 0 production code and already had issues with it.

Already received the replacements parts but just haven't had time to install them since I need to pick up the spline tool.


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

zucchini said:


> Hi there - I'm looking at building up a set of M-i29A rims from BTLOS. For those of you that built with them, would you use the ERD they have stated on their site? Reason I'm asking is that I'm also considering ordering CX Rays or D-Lights from them at the same time, so I'd like to see if that ERD is accurate. They are showing 551mm for a 27.5 rim, but it also says "does not include the nipple", so I'm not sure if that number isn't the one you'd put into one of the standard spoke calculators. I use Sapim spokes and polyax nipples.
> 
> Thanks!


I would not trust their ERD numbers. On my i30 build, the ERD they advertised was off. I pressed them on email to verify exactly what the erd was including nips and confirm my spoke calculations I sent them using the DT spoke calculator. I also wanted to buy the CXRays and nips from them to save a few bucks. Eventually they could not guarantee spoke length. I got rims and did my own measurements for ERD then bought spokes separately from Wheel-Parts in Europe. Glad I did as the spoke length ended up being slightly different than what my original calcs using their supplied ERD gave. Once tensioned up My spokes ends sit just in the nipple slots perfectly. Added some to cost and time to the build but not too bad. Wheel parts ships quick.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

zucchini said:


> Hi there - I'm looking at building up a set of M-i29A rims from BTLOS. For those of you that built with them, would you use the ERD they have stated on their site? Reason I'm asking is that I'm also considering ordering CX Rays or D-Lights from them at the same time, so I'd like to see if that ERD is accurate. They are showing 551mm for a 27.5 rim, but it also says "does not include the nipple", so I'm not sure if that number isn't the one you'd put into one of the standard spoke calculators. I use Sapim spokes and polyax nipples.


I ordered a set of the M-i29A's as well as CX-Rays/nipples since their spoke price was so much cheaper than here. I used their measurements to calc the length, then asked Amy to confirm with their builder what length I should get - without telling her the number I came up with. They came back with the same so I ordered everything, built them up and they turned out excellent. Mine were 29's though.


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

chrisbiker65 said:


> I would not trust their ERD numbers. On my i30 build, the ERD they advertised was off. I pressed them on email to verify exactly what the erd was including nips and confirm my spoke calculations I sent them using the DT spoke calculator. I also wanted to buy the CXRays and nips from them to save a few bucks. Eventually they could not guarantee spoke length. I got rims and did my own measurements for ERD then bought spokes separately from Wheel-Parts in Europe. Glad I did as the spoke length ended up being slightly different than what my original calcs using their supplied ERD gave. Once tensioned up My spokes ends sit just in the nipple slots perfectly. Added some to cost and time to the build but not too bad. Wheel parts ships quick.


Thanks - I asked about this and they said that technically I could add 2mm to the published ERD and do the calculations based on that. However, she also suggested that I buy the spokes later, because there could be some variations in the actual ERD.



Roy said:


> I ordered a set of the M-i29A's as well as CX-Rays/nipples since their spoke price was so much cheaper than here. I used their measurements to calc the length, then asked Amy to confirm with their builder what length I should get - without telling her the number I came up with. They came back with the same so I ordered everything, built them up and they turned out excellent. Mine were 29's though.


Yeah, that's what I was hoping to do, but I'm now leaning toward ordering the rims, measuring the ERD myself, and then ordering some D-Lights to build it up. When I put in my hubs (White Industries CLD+), 28 hole, 2 cross with that ERD, it came out to 258mm all around, which is kind of nice because it seems like the asymmetric rim plus the geometry of the WI hubs works out really cleanly that way!

For @Roy and @chrisbiker65 - did you use nipple washers in your builds?

And @Roy did you do the AM or EN build? Amy suggested the EN for me - I'm doing trails and singletrack, no giant drops, very small (1 foot) jumps, and I weigh 150 lbs.


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

No nipple washers on my build. I used enduro rim in rear and all mountain in front. I am 170#


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

chrisbiker65 said:


> No nipple washers on my build. I used enduro rim in rear and all mountain in front. I am 170#


Thanks @chrisbiker65 ! I saw your pics up above, looks great! What finish is that - UD Matte?


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. UD Matte.


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

Thanks. Ordered my set of M-i29A rims, 27.5", 28 hole, UD Matte, AM in the front and EN in the rear. Looking forward to building them up!


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## xreaper (Jun 5, 2021)

Got Btlos M-i25A extralight rims, local wheel builder couldn't reach a proper spoke tension above 100kgs, the friction between a carbon surface and a nipple was very strong and drop of oil didn't help, the tool he was using was good quality 4-sided, I had to buy stainless shims and re-build the wheels and only after this I got a result like it should be. Spoke tension meter was from Park tool, calibrated, Dt swiss 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes and squarq nipples.
I like how the bike feels with the new carbon rims, I think I should choose 30mm internal width to make a tubeless tire work better.
Now I am planning to purchase a roadbike wheelset , could anyone share a coupon code?


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

I use a q tip and put a very light amount of grease on each spoke hole where the nipple sits. I used Sapim locking nipples with a little oil on the spoke thread. Makes tightening go easy and allows less seizing when the wheels get old. I went to 110 kg tension on drive side no issue. The locking on the nipple will prevent unloosening.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I do something similar.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

> For @Roy and @chrisbiker65 - did you use nipple washers in your builds?
> 
> And @Roy did you do the AM or EN build? Amy suggested the EN for me - I'm doing trails and singletrack, no giant drops, very small (1 foot) jumps, and I weigh 150 lbs.


I did not use nipple washers. I take an old spoke, and thread a nipple on it from it's back side (opposite end from where you normally thread the spoke into the nipple), then dip the nipple in some grease (Slick Honey). I stick the nipple through the rim and then thread the wheel's spoke into it (and back out the 'old spoke'). I use anti-seize on the threads of the spoke. I learned these tricks from MikeT years ago here; never let me down.

Mine were the AM - my ride is an XC/All-Mountain with only 100mm in the back/120mm in the front, but I have to say the AM wheels have performed great. I regularly do 2-3' drops to flat and more than a few rock gardens, etc... and they've been great (so far).


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

Thanks @Roy - great to hear that the wheels have been performing well for you! I also got my start in wheelbuilding learning from MikeT on the forums. Now awaiting my hubs and rims, hopefully by July some time. Looking forward to the build and the final result!


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

xreaper said:


> Got Btlos M-i25A extralight rims, local wheel builder couldn't reach a proper spoke tension above 100kgs, the friction between a carbon surface and a nipple was very strong and drop of oil didn't help, the tool he was using was good quality 4-sided, I had to buy stainless shims and re-build the wheels and only after this I got a result like it should be. Spoke tension meter was from Park tool, calibrated, Dt swiss 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes and squarq nipples.
> I like how the bike feels with the new carbon rims, I think I should choose 30mm internal width to make a tubeless tire work better.
> Now I am planning to purchase a roadbike wheelset , could anyone share a coupon code?


I burnished and greased the spoke seats and the wheels built up smooth as butter. I do the same thing with aluminum rims too.


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

How long after you guys placed an order did you get a shipping notification? Placed my order 3 weeks ago and nothing yet.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

La Nada said:


> How long after you guys placed an order did you get a shipping notification? Placed my order 3 weeks ago and nothing yet.


I think it was at least 4 weeks then I got the shipping notice from BTLOS. Then about a week to 10 days later I got the notice from UPS that it was coming from California to my place. 3 days later they were on my porch.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

👍


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Dirt Road said:


> Pre pandemic, I got so much gear from China. One of my last purchases was the 30/350 wheels. 32 spoke, best purchase yet, frame will go, not the wheels.


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## zucchini (Aug 2, 2020)

La Nada said:


> How long after you guys placed an order did you get a shipping notification? Placed my order 3 weeks ago and nothing yet.


I placed my order on 6/3, just got the shipment notification today 6/30.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

Finally got to test the wm-i30as wheelset out.

Did a 6.5hr mtb ride in bentonville that covered both Lil Sugar and the Back 40. Ride was right around 60mi and it threw every condition at me it could. Pouring rain, snakes, mud, slick rocks, roots, slick climbs, etc.

Bike is the epic evo which is basically and over forked 120mm epic. I love the bike. It was perfect for the bentonville trails.

My riding style is more XC than anything but I did hit some of the table tops in Huntley and All American. Nothing like 10' gaps, but the smaller ones that are more suited for someone on a 120mm fork.

The previous wheels I had were crest (which were freaking narrow noodles), then a set of these bontrager kovee wheels that had horrible engagement and only 25mm IW, to these btlos.

The main thing I noticed right away was the engagement of the dt240 with 52t star and the IW of the rim. I felt like I was cheating with these btlos. Now I cannot say if they are more vertically compliant than the previous bontrager kovee's, but they def. were way more stiff than the previous stans crest. I am in tune with my bike but not to the point that I can be like "oh these are much more laterally stiff than...xxxx". I can say though they are much stiffer than my crest and spun up quick.

One really surprising thing that happened with these wheels is that I reached an almost shocking new low level of psi. I am 145lbs @ 5'9". So fairly light. These trails are also smooth to me being from North Texas. I started off with 18psi front/ 20psi rear. The tires were 2.4 specialzed ground control up front and 2.3 fast track in the rear. I also have tubolite evo inserts in the tires. I kept having to let psi out throughout the ride. I finally reached a happy spot where I still could not "ding" the rims or feel the roots hit, but was getting some compliance and conformation over rocks and roots..hahah that final magic psi for me was 13.5psi in the front and 15psi in the rear. I know that sounds crazy. I was like starting to get scared i'd burp the tires on the g-out/cambers, but they never did.. Even at fast speeds testing against roots, they never even once felt like they were too low. The grip was so great, it had me much more confident on these terrain.. I had always felt like I was on marbles up there on the back 40 trail but with these wide low psi wheels I finally trusted the tire grip. Also at that low of psi it didnt' feel like I was turning on a block of jello. It just felt like unlimited grip. felt like cheating 

So that was the first ride. Celebrated the ride with a much deserved beer.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Any updates on Extralight rims? I am definitely under the weight limit but is it worth it over premium? Weight difference 35g on i27


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Extra light is worth it and plenty strong. I have 2 sets , both fine so far and not babied.


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## unrealityshow (Oct 29, 2017)

Anyone else have an issue popping a bead off on the I30as rims? I mounted up a WTB Verdict backwards, and had a hell of a time getting the tire off the bead support, to mount the tire correctly. Ended up using a heat gun to seriously warm the tire to soften it up enough to remove.


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## kevin_sbay (Sep 26, 2018)

unrealityshow said:


> Anyone else have an issue popping a bead off on the I30as rims? I mounted up a WTB Verdict backwards, and had a hell of a time getting the tire off the bead support, to mount the tire correctly. Ended up using a heat gun to seriously warm the tire to soften it up enough to remove.


WTBs as a whole seem to have above-average occurrences of being hard to remove from rims. I really like WTB but I've had to mangle a couple of their tires to get them on/off a rim that other tires go on/off smoothly.
Heat gun is interesting approach. Will keep that in mind next time I'm in such a situations.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

unrealityshow said:


> Anyone else have an issue popping a bead off on the I30as rims? I mounted up a WTB Verdict backwards, and had a hell of a time getting the tire off the bead support, to mount the tire correctly. Ended up using a heat gun to seriously warm the tire to soften it up enough to remove.


You couldn't do it by stepping on the tire with the rim lying on the ground?


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## unrealityshow (Oct 29, 2017)

Jayem said:


> You couldn't do it by stepping on the tire with the rim lying on the ground?


No.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

Anyone have any feedback on specifically their FD90 rim?


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I keep doing the math on rebuilding some DT hubs I've got vs just buying a complete DT350 wheelset from BTLOS. 

WM-i30as - $175 x 2 = $350
Pillar PSR2017 with brass nips x68 (a few extras) = $67
Total Rebuild Cost: $417

Or...
Sell Existing Wheelset for $150-$200 (with a fresh true and tensioning)
WM-i30as with DT370LN hubs for $780
Total cost of new wheelset: $580ish. 

I emailed BTLOS to see if they could utilize the ZTTO Star Ratchet copies ($120-$140 a set) vs the Bitex 211s on their $580 wheelset. Those hubs are priced about the same, but the DT copies have better upgrade path (can swap them out with genuine DT parts).

If I could do this, then I'd sell my existing wheelsets and up at $380 or so for a BTLOS WM-i30AS.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

unrealityshow said:


> Anyone else have an issue popping a bead off on the I30as rims? I mounted up a WTB Verdict backwards, and had a hell of a time getting the tire off the bead support, to mount the tire correctly. Ended up using a heat gun to seriously warm the tire to soften it up enough to remove.


Two sets. Different tires (maxxis, schwalbe, bontrager). No issues so far.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

chrisbiker65 said:


> Just built up some BTLOS i30 shallows on DT240's with cXRays straight pulls. I used all mountain weight rim in front and enduro weight in back.
> 
> The flat spokes are really easy to build with IMO. Love these wheels.
> View attachment 1931956
> View attachment 1931957


How do the shallow rims feel? More compliant than other wheels you've ridden? I'm looking to build a mullet wheelset. Too bad, they only have 29er shallow rims.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

They have regular rims in non shallow profiles for 29 inch sizes


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

smoothmoose said:


> How do the shallow rims feel? More compliant than other wheels you've ridden? I'm looking to build a mullet wheelset. Too bad, they only have 29er shallow rims.


I don't know that I could definitively say the shallow rims (i30) are more compliant than other wheels, but I've never felt they were harsh. I love 'em. Light, look good, and handle well. I did struggle with finding a rim tape that sealed. That was not a rim problem, but a tape selection problem, but it took several tries.


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## chrisbiker65 (Feb 13, 2009)

smoothmoose said:


> How do the shallow rims feel? More compliant than other wheels you've ridden? I'm looking to build a mullet wheelset. Too bad, they only have 29er shallow rims.


really like these wheels. I run Tanus inserts so the feel of just the rim is somewhat disguised by the insert. I think it provides some vertical compliance on really hard hits but I can’t really quantify it. I’ve yet to get a genuine pinch flat with these rims. I used the get them on my DT wheel set with the same inserts so I think the shallow rim is doing something. They ride really nice. I raced an enduro series and did lots of park days on this wheel set this year. Lots of rough techy trails and drops etc. Wheels still spin true. Very happy so far. I’m 170pounds.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

Advice Please. I am 205lbs, looking to buy a light weight set of wheels for endurance racing and training. Maybe some light trail riding. Central TX, so it can get rough. Please give me feedback on anything in this build, but two questions I have. When I have built my own wheels I always used Brass, still a good idea here? I usually go with 32H, 28H ok with carbon rims?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Advice Please. I am 205lbs, looking to buy a light weight set of wheels for endurance racing and training. Maybe some light trail riding. Central TX, so it can get rough. Please give me feedback on anything in this build, but two questions I have. When I have built my own wheels I always used Brass, still a good idea here? I usually go with 32H, 28H ok with carbon rims?
> View attachment 1953474


I would pass on the Dt 240 EXP hubs. There have been issues with them. Even the "fix" isn't. Details in this thread.








DtSwiss 240 EXP - engagement problem


Hi have a set of new DTswiss 240 EXP - 1.000km up to today. Since they turned 500km, the rear hub engagement his giving me problems: every once in a while the ratchet did not engage (loose wheel feeling) and suddenly engaged again. Recently, when the ratchet does not engage, it just stay...




www.mtbr.com




If you want Dt Swiss go for the 350 instead. The don't have this issue.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I bought exactly that wheel set 3 years ago (same rims, older model DT240 hubs, same spoke count). I weigh 182 and am not that aggressive a rider, but I've been completely happy with them. I asked for a "light" layup (the Extralite option didn't exist at the time) and ended up with 1325g total weight. Holding up fine so far.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Jan 4, 2008)

wayold said:


> I bought exactly that wheel set 3 years ago (same rims, older model DT240 hubs, same spoke count). I weigh 182 and am not that aggressive a rider, but I've been completely happy with them. I asked for a "light" layup (the Extralite option didn't exist at the time) and ended up with 1325g total weight. Holding up fine so far.


That's awesome. I've never had a wheelset this light, I can't wait. I can tell the difference when I change from the 2400g wheels to the 1900g wheels I have. Hopefully the improvement is there from the 1900g wheelset to these.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Advice Please. I am 205lbs, looking to buy a light weight set of wheels for endurance racing and training. Maybe some light trail riding. Central TX, so it can get rough. Please give me feedback on anything in this build, but two questions I have. When I have built my own wheels I always used Brass, still a good idea here? I usually go with 32H, 28H ok with carbon rims?
> View attachment 1953474



Yes on the brass.

I would avoid the 240exp hubs - it's still pretty uncertain is dtswiss has their sh!t sorted out with the exp hubs right now, so there are other options available - either the 350 or perhaps a set of the older 240s model which are fantastic if you can snag a set.

I am happy with 28h on my carbon wheelsets - but I weigh 25lbs less.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

FYI - BTLOS has 10% off again that will end on 11/14. Got a pair of M-i34AS and CX-Ray spokes coming my way for my next wheel build.


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## Yeti3 (Sep 4, 2020)

Roy said:


> FYI - BTLOS has 10% off again that will end on 11/14. Got a pair of M-i34AS and CX-Ray spokes coming my way for my next wheel build.


How do I get 10% off? I am about to order a set of i34AS with DT240...


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

Yeti3 said:


> How do I get 10% off? I am about to order a set of i34AS with DT240...


 The code is D21D11. I saw it on the home page.


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## Vitec90 (Nov 12, 2021)

I'm thinking of buying i27as, who knows weight limis for premium and extralight? What hubs did you buy? I'm afraid of exp ratchet system...


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

Vitec90 said:


> I'm thinking of buying i27as, who knows weight limis for premium and extralight? What hubs did you buy? I'm afraid of exp ratchet system...


Personally I would stay away from the extra light and take some extra weight for extra strength. The weight limits for the Exl used to be listed and I thought it was somewhere around 90kg. The premium was something like 130kg. 
I have a year on the 54t ratchet system without any issues.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I have the extralight. I haven't weighed them but yes they are quite light indeed. Probably would have been fine with premium. If you are heavy or plan to abuse them go for premium. Idk if it's worth it to save a few grams but hopefully they hold up without issue.


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## Vitec90 (Nov 12, 2021)

I'm 72kg (158lbs). And what hubs do you have?


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## La Nada (Mar 1, 2017)

I just built a set of the 30mm extralights with a 180 rear hub, carbon ti front hub, and dt swiss aerolite spokes. Came out to 1310 grams total. Crazy light compared to anything I've ever had before.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

La Nada said:


> I just built a set of the 30mm extralights with a 180 rear hub, carbon ti front hub, and dt swiss aerolite spokes. Came out to 1310 grams total. Crazy light compared to anything I've ever had before.


Awesome - berd spokes would have put in low 1200....just sayin


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## Yeti3 (Sep 4, 2020)

A. Rider said:


> The code is D21D11. I saw it on the home page.


Thank you, I have wheels on the way now . This is my second order from BTLOS and I am more excited than first time!


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

It looks like I need to add the VTIS to my order, just want to confirm.


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

OldMike said:


> It looks like I need to add the VTIS to my order, just want to confirm.


I did when I ordered mine. Up to you depending on whether you want to tape yourself or not..

Couldn’t help myself and had to take advantage of the sale. Got some AM30 AS’s with DT350’s. Very psyched to get these in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yeti3 (Sep 4, 2020)

OldMike said:


> It looks like I need to add the VTIS to my order, just want to confirm.


Yes, unless you want to source your valve stems and tape locally. I ordered before without VTIS and my wheels came without valve stems and tape.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks, that's what I thought, but wanted to be certain, before ordering.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

I finally place my order on i30as wheelset, after more than year of thinking process lol. 
For now i'm gutted, they emailed me to told me than the Dt350 hub are out of stock at the factory in centerlock... and i dont want 6 bolt, so I will have to wait. Hope not for year 2036


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

you can find the hubs yourself somewhere else and send to them to build with...


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

EdSawyer said:


> you can find the hubs yourself somewhere else and send to them to build with...


There is soooo many ref, it's hard to exactly find the one at a fair price.

They offer me an upgrade to the 240exp 36T for 100$ more, I think i'll take the leap for the 240, its not a huge increase.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

R2 probably has those in stock (DT350s). the 240EXP have had some issues lately. I do like the 180EXP I have, they have performed well so far (I had the recall done on both) but there are still folks that have had issues with the EXP hubs even after the recall of parts was done.


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## we78 (Nov 6, 2009)

Wanted to post a quick update about my wheels from BTLOS.
It's been almost 1 year now of pretty hard riding on these wheels (on a 120mm downcountry bike), they have been holding great, 0 issues.

Now got myself a new enduro bike and planning to get another set from them.
Anyone tried the Bitex hubs? Are they any good?


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Has anybody ordered recently and was able to get a tracking number? Before I purchased wheels last month, I had a couple of chats through the website and the communication was great. I placed the order, but haven't heard any updates as the time that i estimated they would be complete (based on estimate provided by BTLOS) came and went. I've emailed and asked for a tracking number 3 times. The first time there was no response, second time they asked for my phone number, and the third time they said the wheels were shipped. I'm sure they are on their way and all will be fine, but frustrating I couldn't get the info.


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

Gendy said:


> Has anybody ordered recently and was able to get a tracking number? Before I purchased wheels last month, I had a couple of chats through the website and the communication was great. I placed the order, but haven't heard any updates as the time that i estimated they would be complete (based on estimate provided by BTLOS) came and went. I've emailed and asked for a tracking number 3 times. The first time there was no response, second time they asked for my phone number, and the third time they said the wheels were shipped. I'm sure they are on their way and all will be fine, but frustrating I couldn't get the info.


I have. I placed my order on 11/14 and continued to follow up for status with ‘Amy’. Received shipment confirmation on 11/29 then a separate email with tracking information also on 11/29. Been getting regular tracking updates and expect them to arrive by next week.. You should be close to getting your tracking info. If you don’t see anything by tomorrow, I’d follow up again..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Gendy said:


> Has anybody ordered recently and was able to get a tracking number? Before I purchased wheels last month, I had a couple of chats through the website and the communication was great. I placed the order, but haven't heard any updates as the time that i estimated they would be complete (based on estimate provided by BTLOS) came and went. I've emailed and asked for a tracking number 3 times. The first time there was no response, second time they asked for my phone number, and the third time they said the wheels were shipped. I'm sure they are on their way and all will be fine, but frustrating I couldn't get the info.


I emailed them about a recent purchase and was assured it was on the way. I had a tracking but it hadn't been updated yet. The rims came late for sure, probably got held up somewhere, but that's par for the course these days. Overall happy with the product, service and communication.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I ordered 11.26 and no shipping yet or email with tracking. Communication has been good through the process as I have them cutting down some spokes for me since availability of spokes in the US is spotty at the moment. No complaints yet, and I'm stoked to build these up.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Anyone had significant failures with these rims? Experience with warranty support? Thanks.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Anyone had significant failures with these rims? Experience with warranty support? Thanks.


Nope. Three sets and hope to order another soon.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

I've used my 29er/700c XC extralights for mixed gravel and curb hopping commutes for about 3500 miles. No issues.


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

Got my set in today. They are i30AS with DT350 54t and CX-rays. Came in at 1561g with tape and valves. Removed and re-taped with whisky tape because I didn’t like the wrinkles as they came. 









































Before:









After:










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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Nice. When did you order?


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

Gendy said:


> Nice. When did you order?


11/14. Production was about 2 weeks (7 business days). Shipping was a bit longer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Ordered a set for myself as well. Went with the tried-and-true 350s also--I just don't want any headaches. But, don'tcha know it? I don't have a boost fork, so I'll just have to do some more shopping.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Ordered a set for myself as well.* Went with the tried-and-true 350s* also--I just don't want any headaches. But, don'tcha know it? I don't have a boost fork, so I'll just have to do some more shopping.


How do they compate to the i9 Hydras?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

OldMike said:


> How do they compate to the i9 Hydras?


Both are a superb hub. 

If super bling colors is important to you then advantage I9. 

Ease of servicing advantage DT star ratchet.

High engagement numbers advantage I9.

Weight advantage DT?

Cost advantage DT 

I have flip flopped between both, have always been happy with either. High engagement I thought I needed but I don't miss with my current stat ratchets. Bling colors are nice.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks didn't know about the engagement difference.
Price is also a big difference, however weight is similar (with the i9's being marginally lighter).


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

OldMike said:


> Thanks didn't know about the engagement difference.
> Price is also a big difference, however weight is similar (with the i9's being marginally lighter).


Given a bigger budget I might have gone I9, but the 350s are hard to pass up at the price--especially since they've been newly refined/lightened, but kept the same proven system inside (whereas the new 240s are having teething problems with their "new" ratchet system). The Honda Accord of hubs, I think.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

OldMike said:


> Thanks didn't know about the engagement difference.
> Price is also a big difference, however weight is similar (with the i9's being marginally lighter).


Noise is also a big consideration. DTs with 36t drive rings are pretty quiet (54s, not so much). I9s have a reputation for being noisy (buzzy). Personally, I really don't like the sound of loud hubs. Some love it.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Given a bigger budget I might have gone I9, but the 350s are hard to pass up at the price--especially since they've been newly refined/lightened, but kept the same proven system inside (whereas the new 240s are having teething problems with their "new" ratchet system). The Honda Accord of hubs, I think.





bizango said:


> Noise is also a big consideration. DTs with 36t drive rings are pretty quiet (54s, not so much). I9s have a reputation for being noisy (buzzy). Personally, I really don't like the sound of loud hubs. Some love it.


All good points to consider!


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

asrautox said:


> Got my set in today. They are i30AS with DT350 54t and CX-rays. Came in at 1561g with tape and valves. Removed and re-taped with whisky tape because I didn’t like the wrinkles as they came.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good idea replacing that tape job. That black tape job was not going to last 1 or 2 rides. The whiskey tape is nice as it's stretchy.


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

combfilter said:


> Good idea replacing that tape job. That black tape job was not going to last 1 or 2 rides. The whiskey tape is nice as it's stretchy.


Agreed. That tape job was spotty at best and would’ve been very frustrating to deal with. I hate taping rims as much as the next guy, but at least I know it’s done properly and will hold pressure. The whiskey tape and muc-off tapes are both excellent and semi-translucent so you can see the seal. 

Update on the wheels after a nice break-in ride over at Greer Ranch: Love the wheels! Can definitely feel the difference both climbing and descending. On the climbs it feels like I’ve gained an extra gear. I was surprised on a few occasions to discover I actually had one more gear to go when things got super steep. They make lugging up that last peak all that much easier. On the descents, the bike (SB150) feels much more poppy and nimble. I had to recalibrate how much I was pushing off jumps as it felt like I was going to launch myself a little too far. Through the rocks the bike was easier to maneuver where before I would just plow through and hope for the best, I was able to make quicker line adjustments and snake through. I am running an insert in the rear for added protection, but so far they’ve taken everything I can throw at them without any complaint. 


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

asrautox said:


> Got my set in today. They are i30AS with DT350 54t and CX-rays. Came in at 1561g with tape and valves. Removed and re-taped with whisky tape because I didn’t like the wrinkles as they came.


Did you get the AM layup?


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

smoothmoose said:


> Did you get the AM layup?


Yep, AM with Premium. Wasn’t too much more from standard as I recall. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stelloy (Dec 18, 2021)

Hey guys, just received my i30as wheelset that I ordered last week. This thing is pretty sweet!

Went for the AM/DT370 hub/Matte UD/Brass nipples/28 spokes

Rear wheel came in at 908 grams and the front wheel came in at 795g.


Anyone ever added some other brand decals like ENVE, NOBL, etc. just for fun? lol


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

stelloy said:


> Anyone ever added some other brand decals like ENVE, NOBL, etc. just for fun? lol


Not a fan of false branding. I proudly run the BTLOS logos on my wheels. No apologies necessary. BTLOS does a great job and deserves credit for offering a good product with good service.

Frankly I'm much less impressed and attracted to all of the small, domestic wheel brands that claim to have rims built to their specs, but they aren't designing the rim profile and details, nor are they buying tooling (there are some out there that do). They buy open mold designs and slap a decal on it and call it their own. ENVE, et al. do not fall into this category, but you pay a premium.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

bizango said:


> Not a fan of false branding. I proudly run the BTLOS logos on my wheels. No apologies necessary. BTLOS does a great job and deserves credit for offering a good product with good service.
> 
> Frankly I'm much less impressed and attracted to all of the small, domestic wheel brands that claim to have rims built to their specs, but they aren't designing the rim profile and details, nor are they buying tooling (there are some out there that do). They buy open mold designs and slap a decal on it and call it their own. ENVE, et al. do not fall into this category, but you pay a premium.


I proudly wear the BTLOS labels on my rims. Two years and not a single problem with my i39a rims on my Stache. I can't say the same thing about the Durocs that they replaced. I went through three of those in the same time frame with splitting spoke holes.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I would like just the "B" logo as an option, I went for none.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

stelloy said:


> Anyone ever added some other brand decals like ENVE, NOBL, etc. just for fun? lol


Only 2 reasons I would run ANYBODYS logos on my stuff 

1. It's painted/etched/permanently affixed and cant be removed.

2. If I was being paid to ride showing their logo.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

006_007 said:


> Only 2 reasons I would run ANYBODYS logos on my stuff
> 
> 1. It's painted/etched/permanently affixed and cant be removed.
> 
> 2. If I was being paid to ride showing their logo.











Just think how much you could get paid to ride this!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

bizango said:


> View attachment 1962454
> 
> Just think how much you could get paid to ride this!


You couldn't pay me enough.

And you wouldn't want to. It would be crimes against Lycra is all I'm saying.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Just received my wm-i30as hoops and spokes. About 30 days order to door. Quality of the hoops is better then expected and i'm going to build them up with some dt350s, sapim race spokes and brass nipples in the next few days. Pleased with the process so far.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I had an extra set of bike-matched ENVE decals so I put them on my un-logoed BTLOS rims. Mostly for the color match (I do have a set of ENVEs also). I would be happy to run the BTLOS logo but it's such an ugly logo I just can't stand it. And the lack of custom color options (like ENVE has) means I usually go with no logo.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

It is a pretty boring logo, so I just get mine without now. Great rims, though.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

Their gloss black logos over their matte black rim finish looks pleasing yet subtle. You can’t tell what it says without effort and still it looks better than nothing.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

I'm looking at their rims in 27.5 around 30mm internal. The two models in particular are the M-i30A and M-i29A. These are only 1mm difference in width however 45g difference in weight. I'm looking at the same layup - Enduro, premium. 
When I check their i32 rim, it is only 10g more than the i30 despite being 2mm wider and 1mm deeper as well. 
Why is there such a difference between the i29 and i30?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

stelloy said:


> Anyone ever added some other brand decals like ENVE, NOBL, etc. just for fun? lol


I want to have a set of custom stickers made for my son’s BTLOS that say “INVE M69” and see if anyone notices.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

JaxMustang50 said:


> I'm looking at their rims in 27.5 around 30mm internal. The two models in particular are the M-i30A and M-i29A. These are only 1mm difference in width however 45g difference in weight. I'm looking at the same layup - Enduro, premium.
> When I check their i32 rim, it is only 10g more than the i30 despite being 2mm wider and 1mm deeper as well.
> Why is there such a difference between the i29 and i30?


When I bought my wheels I looked at both and assumed the 30 was just more robust, built for harder riding. I bought the 29s for the lower weight.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Zguitar71 said:


> When I bought my wheels I looked at both and assumed the 30 was just more robust, built for harder riding. I bought the 29s for the lower weight.


Did you happen to weigh them? 
thanks


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Did you happen to weigh them?
> thanks


Well the rims were laced to hubs etc., they can as a wheel set so I couldn’t weight the rims separately. The wheels were 1350 grams with 180 hubs and CXRay spokes, and al nipples.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Wow. Nice. Have they proven durable and how about stiffness?


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## terryatthebikewallet (Dec 24, 2020)

givemefive said:


> Bitex BITEX
> BTLOS M-i34AS 29er asymmetric Enduro cycling shallow carbon rims - Btlos Bicycle
> CX-ray spokes
> 
> I built these myself as I had bought the hubs a long time ago.


How are you liking those / how are they holding up? Also curious what size tire you run with them. The BTLOS rim 'selector' function on their site doesn't come up with this rim under 2.5" tire width. So was wondering if they consider it too wide for this function? I would imagine it would be fine / right on the money.

Merry Christmas too 

-=terry


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Wow. Nice. Have they proven durable and how about stiffness?


They are defiantly stiff, which is what I wanted. I have not had any issues with them and have about 1000 miles on them and they are still true without any maintenance.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Excellent! Thanks for the info, and Merry Christmas. 

Anyone with the i30s care to comment?


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## enewman (Oct 7, 2008)

You all have convinced me to give BTLOS a try. I placed my order for a pair of M-i29A rims for my latest build. I’ll lace these to DT240’s that will go on my new Esker Japhy…I can’t wait for the rims to show up!


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Anybody only have one wheel show up? I've had a pretty frustrating experience communicating with BTLOS after ordering in mid november. I was never able to get a tracking number from them, despite 4 email requests. They asked for my phone number 3 times, which i promptly responded with, but they said it held up shipping. Finally today a box shows up with one wheel 

Edit: The second wheel showed up, and all is right. The wheels look nice, but haven't ridden them yet, nor do i have the tools/know-how to check spoke tension or trueness. I think i'll go back to EIE next time, or try another company. Its been frustrating waiting since ordering in early November and not having an eta or tracking number.


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

Roy said:


> It is a pretty boring logo, so I just get mine without now. Great rims, though.


Agreed. I made some that are based on Santa Cruz Reserve.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

My M-i34AS rims arrived today after shipping on 12/2. One weighs 470g and the other 486g interestingly enough. Just as gorgeous as the last set I got from them, so now just need to get some time to build them up.


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## Yeti3 (Sep 4, 2020)

I just received my BTLOS wheels. I ordered them on November 13th... so it took a while via EMS/USPS. It seems like they were worth waiting for. Combo of DT240 hubs / i34AS 29'' rims and 32 spokes comes at 1580g all together. 
This is my 2nd pair and they look as good as the first one. I had no problems with the other set and they are still on my hardtail... Time to mount the tires and get them dirty.
Happy Trails!


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

Built up the BTLOS i34AS rims and mounted a pair of 2.35 tires I have - there's definitely no advantage to a 35mm IW rim for a 2.35 tire. However what really surprised me was how difficult it was to mount them. It was so tight, I had to use soapy water to just get them on and in the channel. Getting them off was equally brutal and there's definitely no way I could insert a tube if I flatted on the trail with them. Is this normal for 35mm IW rims? The 30mm IW BTLOS rims I built last year have no troubles mounting tires by hand, so this came as a surprise.


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## CodeBlue1914 (12 mo ago)

Last month I picked up some i30AS rims with the below configuration. I've only taken them out twice but so far they have been great. As the weather gets better and I can ride more often will time tell. Thanks for all the comments in this post which lead to my decision to try BTLOS. 

Series: Premium
Version: AM
Finish: Matte
Weave: UD
Hub Type: i9 Hydra (Blue)
Spoke Count: 32H/32H
Ratchet: Default
Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
Freehub: SRAM XD
Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
Spoke System: J-bend
Spoke: Sapim D-Light
Nipple: Aluminium Blue
Decal colors: None


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Roy said:


> Built up the BTLOS i34AS rims and mounted a pair of 2.35 tires I have - there's definitely no advantage to a 35mm IW rim for a 2.35 tire. However what really surprised me was how difficult it was to mount them. It was so tight, I had to use soapy water to just get them on and in the channel. Getting them off was equally brutal and there's definitely no way I could insert a tube if I flatted on the trail with them. Is this normal for 35mm IW rims? The 30mm IW BTLOS rims I built last year have no troubles mounting tires by hand, so this came as a surprise.


My experience is it's always harder to mount tubeless tires in the winter. I'm not sure where you are, but my garage is high 50s/low 60s right now in California and it's more a pain. In the spring/summer, I let the tires sit in the sun for 30 mins before mounting and they get more pliable and stretchy and always seat pretty much first try. In the winter, no such luck.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

smoothmoose said:


> My experience is it's always harder to mount tubeless tires in the winter. I'm not sure where you are, but my garage is high 50s/low 60s right now in California and it's more a pain. In the spring/summer, I let the tires sit in the sun for 30 mins before mounting and they get more pliable and stretchy and always seat pretty much first try. In the winter, no such luck.


Leave them in the furnace room for a few hours.


----------



## senorbanana (May 11, 2017)

Anybody contact them recently? I can’t seem to get a hold of them. Maybe Chinese New Year?


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't see any superboost 157 hub options on their website. Does anyone know if they can build a superboost 157 wheelset?


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## JohnWhiteCD (Aug 28, 2015)

jabrabu said:


> I don't see any superboost 157 hub options on their website. Does anyone know if they can build a superboost 157 wheelset?


Yes, Amy responded indicating they offer Hope 4 in 157.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

senorbanana said:


> Anybody contact them recently? I can’t seem to get a hold of them. Maybe Chinese New Year?


Yes. All of our China based suppliers have been warning us for a while that they'll be out the end of this week through next week. Most places totally shut down.


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## enewman (Oct 7, 2008)

I got my i29A rims in just over 1 month. The rims look really nice. They came up to tension without much trouble. Can’t wait to enjoy them on the trails.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

I noticed they're offering a Chinese New Year discount, it just doesn't say how much the discount is. Details, details...


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

It says up to $80 USD. Looks like a different code for rims vs wheels, so I'd guess $80 off for a wheelset.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I just received my Black Friday wheelset a few days ago. Rims look great and built around the new 350's, so I'm hoping for a long and trouble-free experience.


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## tom1759 (Jan 6, 2022)

I can't seem to figure it out on their site, what's the difference between the AS vs EN versions of the i30 wheels?

Also anyone have input on going with the shallow (i30AS) vs deeper (i30A) rim?


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Are people finding that their actual wheelset weights are coming in close to what they say when you spec them out prior to placing your order or are they fibbing a bit? I did the math best I could based on the sum of the parts from a database of real world weights for components I've owned over the years and best I can tell they appear to be under estimating them by 100g or so depending on the spec.


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## jjyoung (Jul 14, 2008)

My i30AS with bitex hub wheelset came very close to advertised weights. I think within 10gms.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Mine were within a few grams.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

I've purchased a few sets and they have all been very close.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

I've ordered 4 of their i30AS rims, under 2 separate orders, and all 4 were within their claimed weight range.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Does the claimed weight include rim tape/valves? If not, how much does that add?


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

A. Rider said:


> I've ordered 4 of their i30AS rims, under 2 separate orders, and all 4 were within their claimed weight range.


Thanks, that's good to hear. Those are the same rims I'm considering.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

OldMike said:


> Does the claimed weight include rim tape/valves? If not, how much does that add?


I would suspect not.

According to my scale:
44mm Stan's valve stem w/nut = 9g
1 wrap (for a 29er rim) of 21mm wide Stan's yellow tape = 11g
2 oz. of Stan's fluid = 61g


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## Yeti3 (Sep 4, 2020)

Roy said:


> Built up the BTLOS i34AS rims and mounted a pair of 2.35 tires I have - there's definitely no advantage to a 35mm IW rim for a 2.35 tire. However what really surprised me was how difficult it was to mount them. It was so tight, I had to use soapy water to just get them on and in the channel. Getting them off was equally brutal and there's definitely no way I could insert a tube if I flatted on the trail with them. Is this normal for 35mm IW rims? The 30mm IW BTLOS rims I built last year have no troubles mounting tires by hand, so this came as a surprise.


I finally taped and installed my wheels. I had no problem mounting Maxxis Assegai 2.5 on i34AS rims using bare hands.


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

Just got a set of BTLOS XC (29-er) rims back from being built. *M-i22A* in extralight variety (250g and 261g for the rims), Extralite hyperboost 3 hubs (XD driver), 24-hole front and 28-hole rear, BERD black spokes. Total weight was 896g for the set, before tape/valves/etc.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

EdSawyer said:


> View attachment 1969623
> 
> 
> Just got a set of BTLOS XC (29-er) rims back from being built. *M-i22A* in extralight variety (250g and 261g for the rims), Extralite hyperboost 3 hubs (XD driver), 24-hole front and 28-hole rear, BERD black spokes. Total weight was 896g for the set, before tape/valves/etc.


Yep that's pretty dang light!


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

dundundata said:


> Yep that's pretty dang light!


Scary light.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Wow @EdSawyer - how much do you weigh? Definitely interested in hearing more about the berd spokes.


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

EdSawyer said:


> View attachment 1969623
> 
> 
> Just got a set of BTLOS XC (29-er) rims back from being built. *M-i22A* in extralight variety (250g and 261g for the rims), Extralite hyperboost 3 hubs (XD driver), 24-hole front and 28-hole rear, BERD black spokes. Total weight was 896g for the set, before tape/valves/etc.


I would not have believed that weight was achievable without the pic


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

EdSawyer said:


> View attachment 1969623
> 
> 
> Just got a set of BTLOS XC (29-er) rims back from being built. *M-i22A* in extralight variety (250g and 261g for the rims), Extralite hyperboost 3 hubs (XD driver), 24-hole front and 28-hole rear, BERD black spokes. Total weight was 896g for the set, before tape/valves/etc.


Do you mind sharing who laced them for you?


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

BERD did the building, I sent them the rims and hubs, they sold me the spokes and did the build. Turnaround with them was shorter than they estimated, which was nice. It was worth the cost, they don't charge that much, all things considered. I weigh about 157lb give or take a couple. This is the 4th set of BERD wheels I have, the others have held up well too (2 x HED big deal sets, one set of BTLOS 27.5 25mm ID set).I didn't expect them to be quite that light. I figured about 915-920g so that was a nice surprise.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

EdSawyer said:


> View attachment 1969623
> 
> 
> Just got a set of BTLOS XC (29-er) rims back from being built. *M-i22A* in extralight variety (250g and 261g for the rims), Extralite hyperboost 3 hubs (XD driver), 24-hole front and 28-hole rear, BERD black spokes. Total weight was 896g for the set, before tape/valves/etc.


Ha, that's awesome! My weight weenie inner spirit rejoices. I know it doesn't matter as much as we think it does, but dang, it sure is nice when you can put the right mix of parts together and get the overall weight down on a build, while maintaining functionality.

Curious, is this for a mountain bike? Gravel?


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

These are going to go into a 2022 S-works epic evo build, which should be in the 17.xx lb range somewhere. Most of the parts will be from my 2018 Epic, which is already at 18.3lbs so getting into the 17s should be no problem. It will really be more of a de-brained Epic sort of build, rather than a full blown downcountry Epic evo. E.g. 100mm fork, no dropper, lightweight wheels/tires/etc.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

EdSawyer said:


> These are going to go into a 2022 S-works epic evo build, which should be in the 17.xx lb range somewhere. Most of the parts will be from my 2018 Epic, which is already at 18.3lbs so getting into the 17s should be no problem. It will really be more of a de-brained Epic sort of build, rather than a full blown downcountry Epic evo. E.g. 100mm fork, no dropper, lightweight wheels/tires/etc.


Curious as to tire selection?


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## EdSawyer (Mar 20, 2020)

I will transfer the thunder burts I have on the 2018. I have another set of wheels with 2.25 rocket Ron liteskins.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Would you still go for carbon if weight and durability weren't a deciding factor? 

I'm new to carbon rims and I haven't ridden ones, besides on a XC bike, so I have no real world comparison how they feel in rock gardens and square edge hits. My current rims are i30 alloy ones from Newmen and weight 480 grams. The premium EN M-i30A weights 465g +/-15g.
At best it would be a 30g difference, which I highly doubt I'll be able to notice. I have no issues with them staying true, so for me the deciding factor is ride quality.

I suppose most people who switched from alloy to carbon probably got way biggers savings (with lighter spokes and hubs). But i'm curious if we take the weight out of the equation, what would be the difference.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Updating my order as BTLOS only has colored Al Nipples.
Is it still problematic to with Al nipples (over brass)?
I'd prefer the color of the Al, however I don't want to regret it later.
Riding weight is 180lbs and wheelset will only see dry hardpack XC terrain.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

OldMike said:


> Updating my order as BTLOS only has colored Al Nipples.
> Is it still problematic to with Al nipples (over brass)?
> I'd prefer the color of the Al, however I don't want to regret it later.
> Riding weight is 180lbs and wheelset will only see dry hardpack XC terrain.


How often do you typically need to true your wheels?

I'm kind of in the same boat. I ordered a set of WM-i30AS with DT Swiss 350 hubs, D-Light spokes and brass nipples this past Saturday morning. When I woke up yesterday I had an e-mail from them letting me know the hubs are out of stock however they have one set already built that matches my spec except it has aluminum nipples. All my wheels have always been spec'd with brass nipples but I go about 175 lbs. and ride similar sounding terrain as you and to be honest I very rarely if ever have to put a spoke wrench on a wheel. In fact I have sets that are 4+ years old that I've never had touch. So I figured I'd roll the dice rather than wait for the hubs to come back in stock.

One upside to agreeing to take the set with aluminum nipples is I have an e-mail notice in my inbox already saying they've shipped!


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Stahr_Nut said:


> *How often do you typically need to true your wheels?*
> 
> I'm kind of in the same boat. I ordered a set of WM-i30AS with DT Swiss 350 hubs, D-Light spokes and brass nipples this past Saturday morning. When I woke up yesterday I had an e-mail from them letting me know the hubs are out of stock however they have one set already built that matches my spec except it has aluminum nipples. All my wheels have always been spec'd with brass nipples but I go about 175 lbs. and ride similar sounding terrain as you and to be honest I very rarely if ever have to put a spoke wrench on a wheel. In fact I have sets that are 4+ years old that I've never had touch. So I figured I'd roll the dice rather than wait for the hubs to come back in stock.
> 
> One upside to agreeing to take the set with aluminum nipples is I have an e-mail notice in my inbox already saying they've shipped!


I haven't needed to true my 29er yet (1000mi). I'm sure they could use a small tweek but there's hardly any noticeable wobble


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

I was trueing aluminum wheels after every weekend of rock bashing. Carbon don't go out of true, but do need tensioning every 6 months or so. I weight 170lbs and mostly ride Enduro lines/jumps/rocks.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

GlazedHam said:


> I was trueing aluminum wheels after every weekend of rock bashing. Carbon don't go out of true, but do need tensioning every 6 months or so. I weight 170lbs and mostly ride Enduro lines/jumps/rocks.


Is this common, carbon wheels needing re-tensioning? The first set of i30AS wheels I built I found that the rear wheel lost some tension, so I re-tensioned it and it’s been fine (the second set I just built is waiting for the snow to melt).


----------



## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

A. Rider said:


> Is this common, carbon wheels needing re-tensioning? The first set of i30AS wheels I built I found that the rear wheel lost some tension, so I re-tensioned it and it’s been fine (the second set I just built is waiting for the snow to melt).


Carbon rims need way less maintenance than alloy, in my experience. I have 2 sets of 2014-era, 29 Light-Bike rims in the 400g range with thousands of off-road miles on them and honestly probably could have never tensioned them and they would still be fine. I'm beating these things over rocks constantly, so every six months or so I retension them ever so slightly. Probably more to do with spokes, nipples and build quality than the rims themselves.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

OldMike said:


> Updating my order as BTLOS only has colored Al Nipples.
> Is it still problematic to with Al nipples (over brass)?
> I'd prefer the color of the Al, however I don't want to regret it later.
> Riding weight is 180lbs and wheelset will only see dry hardpack XC terrain.


Went with the Al nipples as I'm not too heavy on tires/rims so I think I'll be ok for a few yrs.
Will inspect in a few yrs.

I can see how a few on here would probably destroy these as I ordered
the 27mm AS (shallow) rims to be paired with Spec. Fast Trak 2.2" Sworks tires (575g)


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

OldMike said:


> Went with the Al nipples as I'm not too heavy on tires/rims so I think I'll be ok for a few yrs.
> Will inspect in a few yrs.
> 
> I can see how a few on here would probably destroy these as I ordered
> the 27mm AS (shallow) rims to be paired with Spec. Fast Trak 2.2" Sworks tires (575g)


Aluminum nipples can take a beating and hold up just as well as brass. Over time they can suffer though due to corrosion. It sucks when one day you go to adjust an aluminum nipple and it just crumbles apart.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

A. Rider said:


> Aluminum nipples can take a beating and hold up just as well as brass. Over time they can suffer though due to corrosion.* It sucks when one day you go to adjust an aluminum nipple and it just crumbles apart.*


I knew all about this before deciding. When that day comes, I'll decide whether to stick with Al or switch over to brass (depending on longevity)


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

A. Rider said:


> Aluminum nipples can take a beating and hold up just as well as brass. Over time they can suffer though due to corrosion. It sucks when one day you go to adjust an aluminum nipple and it just crumbles apart.


That's what happened to my 4 year old aluminum wheels (not BTLOS). I had one nipple fallout. I took it the shop and the fixed it for nominal costs. Now if they keep dying one by one over the course of months or years, that would be very annoying.


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## bigdamo (Jun 11, 2004)

I wonder if anyone has tried/bought wheelset rims from this Chinese company?

carbonbeam Online Shopping carbon rims,carbon wheels,carbon mountain rims,carbon road rims,carbon fatbike wheels,carbon Gravel wheels,bicycle wheels


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Are people finding that their actual wheelset weights are coming in close to what they say when you spec them out prior to placing your order or are they fibbing a bit? I did the math best I could based on the sum of the parts from a database of real world weights for components I've owned over the years and best I can tell they appear to be under estimating them by 100g or so depending on the spec.


Following up on my own question....

My WM-i30AS with DT Swiss 350 hubs arrived yesterday. The BTLOS on-line calculator had them at 1596g +/-25g and they came in at 1628g actual weight on my scale.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Following up on my own question....
> 
> My WM-i30AS with DT Swiss 350 hubs arrived yesterday. The BTLOS on-line calculator had them at 1596g +/-25g and they came in at 1628g actual weight on my scale.


This is reassuring. I'm sure mine will be 100g or so more than spec'd as I added the Tubeless Tape/Valve service.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

OldMike said:


> This is reassuring. I'm sure mine will be 100g or so more than spec'd as I added the Tubeless Tape/Valve service.


FWIW I just installed one wrap of 25mm Stan's yellow tape and a Stan's 35mm brass valve stem on the front and it weighed 791g. Bare it was 762g. So the tape and stem added 29g.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

As I await a boost fork so that I can utilize my wheel set, one thing stands out in this thread: an absence of complaints.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

OldMike said:


> It looks like I need to add the VTIS to my order, just want to confirm.





asrautox said:


> I did when I ordered mine. Up to you depending on whether you want to tape yourself or not..
> 
> Couldn’t help myself and had to take advantage of the sale. Got some AM30 AS’s with DT350’s. Very psyched to get these in!
> 
> ...


Well I added the VITS service to my order (paid for), however the Rims arrived without Tape/Valves.
On the pus side they came in just at 1350g.
How wide of Tape do I need for 27mm ID.


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## asrautox (Sep 22, 2021)

First of all, that sucks, you should be owed some $$ back. Second, I believe whisky tape can be purchased in 27mm thickness. That’s what I would go for. It won’t use the full width as it gets pressed into the spoke hole valley. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

asrautox said:


> First of all, that sucks, you should be owed some $$ back. Second, I believe whisky tape can be purchased in 27mm thickness. That’s what I would go for. It won’t use the full width as it gets pressed into the spoke hole valley.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I emailed them (Amy) to let her know about the missing Rim Tape (Service)/Valves.
See what happens.

Looks like Whiskey Tape is 30mm (thinnest available). Might be too thick?


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

BTLOS refunded me the $15 however I would have referred the VTS service.
Now I will spend more on Blue Valves (to match the spokes and detail on Bike).

Front weighed 619g









Rear weighed 737g


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

30mm wide tape should work great...better than 27mm. I used Whiskey tape for the first time the last time I taped wheels and it seemed to be pretty good stuff. Definitely thicker than some other options.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Interesting...









Not for mountain use, but interesting to see them venturing into this realm. Says something about their capabilities.


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## Roy (Dec 31, 2003)

smoothmoose said:


> My experience is it's always harder to mount tubeless tires in the winter. I'm not sure where you are, but my garage is high 50s/low 60s right now in California and it's more a pain. In the spring/summer, I let the tires sit in the sun for 30 mins before mounting and they get more pliable and stretchy and always seat pretty much first try. In the winter, no such luck.
> 
> 
> Roy said:
> ...


You nailed it smooth. Much warmer temps around here these days, so I retaped the rims and this time let the tire warm up in the sun and no problems at all remounting them.


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

Roy said:


> You nailed it smooth. Much warmer temps around here these days, so I retaped the rims and this time let the tire warm up in the sun and no problems at all remounting them.


This is a good tip. I suspect the CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) difference between the tire and rim materials also plays into it.
I've typically pre-stretched the tire by putting it under one foot and pulling up hard, working my way around the tire. I heard that recommendation eons ago and still do it to new tires, though I can't say how much, or even if, it truly helps.


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## mrdimi (Oct 26, 2020)

OldMike said:


> Well I added the VITS service to my order (paid for), however the Rims arrived without Tape/Valves.
> On the pus side they came in just at 1350g.
> How wide of Tape do I need for 27mm ID.


Any extra duty on getting these to Canada or is it just GST/HST?


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

I ordered BTLOS 30 IW-AS rims on January 18th. They shipped from the factory on Feb 20th (not bad considering the Chinese new year) however they didn't arrive at my house until March 18. They seemed to get to the US fairly quickly but spent a long time in customs and then disappeared into USPS for 2 weeks with no new tracking info until they showed up at my house. I was starting to get worried they were laying alongside the train tracks in CA. 

I bought 3 rims, one as a spare as these are going to Berd and if I destroy a rim I want an exact duplicate so I can re-use the spokes (in theory). 

Rims came in at 449g, 463g and 467g (my scale, about 4 g lighter than the tags that came with the rims).

While I've trued lots of wheels and worked on bikes forever, I've never actually built a wheel so I'm not an expert, but I must say these rims look very very nice. I got the 12k weave and they look flawless. I can remember the first carbon rims I was buying ten years ago had a slightly raw look to them but these are as nice as anything I've seen. Looking forward to riding them after I wait another ~6 weeks to have Berd build them up.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

mrdimi said:


> Any extra duty on getting these to Canada or is it just GST/HST?


No extra Duties or Taxes.


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

I ordered a new set of WM-i30AS wheels with Bitex hubs during the free shipping sale, and they showed up a while ago. Figured I'd post a video of the hub sound for those on the fence.


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## Kristian94568 (Sep 6, 2016)

Hi all, I need some help configuring a wheelset. Currently, I have this set in the shopping cart. Do I need to make any changes to my configuration? 

Background info: 

Transition Sentinel Carbon w. Stans Flow S1 Outer dia: 33.1mm and inner 29mm 
Rider weight 212lbs 
Conditions: Arizona chunk. Mt. Lemmon, South Mountain, Hawes, and two times Angelfire Bikepark and Sunrise a year. 
Tires: 2.4 Vittoria Mazza / Martello combo 

These will be my first carbon wheels and I want to do it right the first time. 

I want a good pair that will last me a long time. Stealth look, reliable hub, lighter than my 2100grams Stans.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

Kristian94568 said:


> Hi all, I need some help configuring a wheelset. Currently, I have this set in the shopping cart. Do I need to make any changes to my configuration?
> 
> Background info:
> 
> ...


Personally, I would buy ratchet upgrade separately. If its about the same price, you'll have a spare ratchet and a cool little jar of DT grease which will last you forever. Replacing ratchet by hand is trivial. The 2021+ version of DT350 comes with 36 POE. Why do you even need to upgrade?

Also IMO i30AS are way way better rims. Especially since you can get them uncoated. I have two sets and love them.
I also have a previous version of i29. Even premium/AM, they are stiff as hell and make a very harsh ride. They are also tall and collect a lot of water inside (no draining holes in BTLOS rims, by default). Shallow rims cannot collect much water.


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## Kristian94568 (Sep 6, 2016)

KVV said:


> Personally, I would buy ratchet upgrade separately. If its about the same price, you'll have a spare ratchet and a cool little jar of DT grease which will last you forever. Replacing ratchet by hand is trivial. The 2021+ version of DT350 comes with 36 POE. Why do you even need to upgrade?
> 
> Also IMO i30AS are way way better rims. Especially since you can get them uncoated. I have two sets and love them.
> I also have a previous version of i29. Even premium/AM, they are stiff as hell and make a very harsh ride. They are also tall and collect a lot of water inside (no draining holes in BTLOS rims, by default). Shallow rims cannot collect much water.


Good point on the ratchet. I will adjust that.
Will also take a look at the i30AS

thanks for the comments.

Edit: And they came out a bit cheaper


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

Pic of the 30AS rim, for reference.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

For ref, my last order:

*WM-i30AS*
- Series: Premium
- Version: AM
- Finish: Coating Free
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT350 2021+
- Spoke Count: 32H/32H
- Ratchet: Default
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: Shimano Microspline
- Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Spoke System: J-bend
- Nipple: Aluminium Black
- Decal colors: None

At the time they did not have 2021+ 350 hubs in 32 holes. So we switched to:

WM-i30AS
-Series: Premium
-Version: AM
-Finish: Coating Free
-Weave: UD
-Spoke Count: 28H/28H
DT350 2021+
-Spoke Count: *28H/28H*
-Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
-Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
-Freehub: Shimano Microspline
-Brake Interface: *6-bolt (Disc)*
-Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
-Spoke System: *straightpull*
-Nipple: Aluminium Black
-Decal colors: None

We also replaced CX-ray in the rear by CX-sprint. BTLOS does not have them to select on site, but do if you ask. CX-sprint are slightly thicker but still very close, and look identical. Notice that DT itself does not build 28h rear with the lightest spokes, too. Not saying to go with 28 spokes. 32 j-bend is fine and was my initial choice, too.

Also uncoated rims are some 10g lighter according to BTLOS. They actually look very cool. Why do you want paint on your rims after all? Carbon does not need coating for additional protection. BTLOS told me that since uncoated are coming straight of the mold, they are harder to produce and the manufacturing has to be perfect, since you cannot hide any defect.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

OldMike said:


> No extra Duties or Taxes.


I think an assembled bicycle wheel (or bicycle) is subject to duty coming into Canada, but bicycle components are not—and I think that allows most to escape the duty. No PST on bike parts in BC. I think I paid GST on my wheels.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Free shipping discount up right now for “singles day”.


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## Kristian94568 (Sep 6, 2016)

Alright kids. My wheel build just came in with UPS. 

10/31/22 Ordered via the website. Used free shipping coupon code. 
11/28/22 UPS delivered. 

They came a lot faster than I was planning. I also believe they upgraded me from TMS shipping to UPS cause I didnt pay for UPS service. 

Will open the box and have a look later today. 

_



9er 30mm inner width All mountain Enduro shallow carbon wheels
- Series: Premium
- Version: EN
- Finish: Coating Free
- Weave: UD
- Hub Type: DT350 2021+
- Spoke Count: 32H/32H
- Ratchet: Default
- Front Axle: 15*110mm BOOST
- Rear Axle: 12*148mm BOOST
- Freehub: Shimano Microspline
- Brake Interface: 6-bolt ( Disc )
- Spoke System: J-bend
- Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
- Nipple: Brass Black
- Decal colors: None

Click to expand...

_


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## Kristian94568 (Sep 6, 2016)

Few pictures of the new wheels. Super happy with the finish and love the look. Gonna tape them up tonight and then pending sole valve stems in the mail. Hopefully the first ride Saturday or Sunday.





































Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

Figured I just do a long term follow up. I had this original review back in 8/2/21. It's been 1.5yrs and 3000 mtb miles later. I have nothing bad to say about this wheelset. They have been outstanding and I have put them through the ringer. I can't even count how many times I have dinged them and thought "ok that's the hit that just cracked my rim" but nope they have been tough as nails. I am 5'9" at 145lbs and typically run psi's around (front 13-15psi) and (rear 16-16.5psi). I run 2.4 tires (ground control grids (cuz they are wider than control casing) rekon race's, and Aspens. I have raced them in XC/XCO, I have taken them to bike parks like in NM and bomb them down gnarly rock gardens all over. They are good to go. Like if I cracked one now, I wouldn't even be mad as they have survived so much. We like them so much we bought a set for the girl friend. 

If there was anything that wasn't perfect I guess if I wanted to get nick picky is that they show rock strikes more than other previous rims I have had. You can see in the pics below.

















Hope that helps anyone on the fence.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

Just ordered my second set. First set was in Jan/22 ~ WM-i27AS w/Bitex hubs for XC purpose. These have been excellent for my 2.2 Fast Trak tires, but wanted another set (WM-i30AS) for more trail oriented tires (2.6/2.4 Maxxis WT, Etc). I use my OEM Al wheelset for the DHRII/Assegai in the wet and/or mud.


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

I just received two sets of wheels built with WM-i30AS rims, cx-ray spokes and dt swiss 240/I9 Hydras. Both wheels sets came in at the claimed weights and the builds look good.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

combfilter said:


> If there was anything that wasn't perfect I guess if I wanted to get nick picky is that they show rock strikes more than other previous rims I have had. You can see in the pics below.
> View attachment 2011630
> 
> View attachment 2011631
> ...


Clear nail polish works pretty good for this. Even on matte finishes...after they get dirty again 😝.


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## saintamour (Jun 13, 2012)

After waiting for Black Friday specials, I finally took the plunge on a carbon wheelset! I was comparing Roval with BTLOS, EliteWheels, and LightBicycle. Ultimately, I went with BTLOS for the customization and good feedback here. Lots of good choices out there in any case. 

Then I overanalyzed choosing between WM-i27AL and WM-i29A. I ride a 2022 Epic Evo Comp with aluminum i30 wheels that do the job, but they're heavy at +2100 g. Building up a light FS bike has always been a want for me, so I think that's what pushed me to choose the WM-i27AL wheelset. That, and I have no intentions to go past a 2.4" tire, so the 27 mm inner width seems like a good fit. My build spec puts the wheelset at 1276 g!

Not gonna lie, I've been waffling back and forth since submitting my order. I'm worried about durability (vs. the i29 choice). I'm based in Michigan, so our trails are typical XC flow with occasional rocky and rooty sections. I'm careful about picking my lines, but **** happens from time to time. I haven't seen any online feedback on this new rim profile, so I guess that adds to my anxiety haha. Sophy at BTLOS assured me it's strong enough, so there's that. 

I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice, but it's at least somewhat cathartic to write down my thoughts here. Once my order arrives, I'll be sure to update this thread if it's still active


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I wouldn't be too worried:

-this thread seems to be remarkably lacking in complaints
-you went with the 350s which are based on their proven design, so that should be solid
-anecdotally, I've been pretty hard on my wheels riding some rowdy "BCXC" and don't have any complaints

I wouldn't hesitate to buy again. Just ride 'em!



saintamour said:


> After waiting for Black Friday specials, I finally took the plunge on a carbon wheelset! I was comparing Roval with BTLOS, EliteWheels, and LightBicycle. Ultimately, I went with BTLOS for the customization and good feedback here. Lots of good choices out there in any case.
> 
> Then I overanalyzed choosing between WM-i27AL and WM-i29A. I ride a 2022 Epic Evo Comp with aluminum i30 wheels that do the job, but they're heavy at +2100 g. Building up a light FS bike has always been a want for me, so I think that's what pushed me to choose the WM-i27AL wheelset. That, and I have no intentions to go past a 2.4" tire, so the 27 mm inner width seems like a good fit. My build spec puts the wheelset at 1276 g!
> 
> ...


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

combfilter said:


> Figured I just do a long term follow up. I had this original review back in 8/2/21. It's been 1.5yrs and 3000 mtb miles later. I have nothing bad to say about this wheelset. They have been outstanding and I have put them through the ringer. I can't even count how many times I have dinged them and thought "ok that's the hit that just cracked my rim" but nope they have been tough as nails. I am 5'9" at 145lbs and typically run psi's around (front 13-15psi) and (rear 16-16.5psi). I run 2.4 tires (ground control grids (cuz they are wider than control casing) rekon race's, and Aspens. I have raced them in XC/XCO, I have taken them to bike parks like in NM and bomb them down gnarly rock gardens all over. They are good to go. Like if I cracked one now, I wouldn't even be mad as they have survived so much. We like them so much we bought a set for the girl friend.
> 
> If there was anything that wasn't perfect I guess if I wanted to get nick picky is that they show rock strikes more than other previous rims I have had. You can see in the pics below.
> View attachment 2011630
> ...


That's impressive with that scary low pressure you run on XC tires. I've had my wheels since early 2021 and switched my wheels on trail and enduro bike with out issue . I run 20.5 psi front and 22.5 rear and am a few pounds heavier.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just received another set of BTLOS wm-i30a hoops to build up. I'm going to be building them up to some Jbend dt350's. These will be replacing some ex511 emtb and bike park wheels that I've been using for the last two seasons. the EX511's were a bit of an experiment to see if I could go back to aluminum wheels for bike parks and the answer is, yes but no. The aluminum set rode great, but the maintenance required to keep the rear wheel straight was a bear. Even with cushcore pro in back and cushcore xc in front, the rear wheel needed 3 truing efforts in 24 months (14 days in the bike park) and ultimately, it's so beat up at this point that it needs to be replaced. 

Meanwhile, I've had a set of btlos wmi30a's on my enduro bike all year and they have been fantastic. I de-tensioned them once, but that was more about my mediocre wheel building skills and not the hoops themselves. Overall, still stoked on my previous wheelset and I'm excited to have another set of these in the fleet.


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## jmitchelltfo (5 mo ago)

I've had my BTLOS WM-i30a + wheelset for almost a month now. The + wasn't an option on the website, but it was suggested when I told them that I was 280 lbs (each rim is rated to 160kg). Didn't cost anything extra for that option, but I did splash out for the better warranty that has the premium layup with Toray T700/T800.

I went with DT350 hubs, Sapim race spokes, brass nipples, and had them drill drain holes. The fit and finish was excellent and I've been very impressed with the whole transaction. From order to delivery ended up being 27 days, which was quicker than I expected. $870 (free shipping) well spent, in my humble opinion.


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## combfilter (Jan 10, 2012)

bajaguy said:


> That's impressive with that scary low pressure you run on XC tires. I've had my wheels since early 2021 and switched my wheels on trail and enduro bike with out issue . I run 20.5 psi front and 22.5 rear and am a few pounds heavier.


Not that scary really. I like nino's rule for psi. Drop it down till you ding a rim then add 1psi.  It surprisingly works well. I come across so many riders that run way too much psi in both road and mtb. It's a game changer in speed and grip if you can get it dialed to as low as possible without risk to the rim or feeling like you are cornering on jello. Even as small as 1-2psi on wider tires/rims makes the difference between bouncing off obstacles vs the tire conforming over the obstacle with less obstruction to forward movement. 

If you think those numbers are scary @145lbs , my road bike is 25mm inner width rims that I run schwalbe pro ones 700x28 (blow up to 30.3 on my rims), I run 48f/50r psi on those. It's great.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

saintamour said:


> After waiting for Black Friday specials, I finally took the plunge on a carbon wheelset! I was comparing Roval with BTLOS, EliteWheels, and LightBicycle. Ultimately, I went with BTLOS for the customization and good feedback here. Lots of good choices out there in any case.
> 
> Then I overanalyzed choosing between WM-i27AL and WM-i29A. I ride a 2022 Epic Evo Comp with aluminum i30 wheels that do the job, but they're heavy at +2100 g. Building up a light FS bike has always been a want for me, so I think that's what pushed me to choose the WM-i27AL wheelset. That, and I have no intentions to go past a 2.4" tire, so the 27 mm inner width seems like a good fit. My build spec puts the wheelset at 1276 g!
> 
> ...



No need to worry. I ordered the WM-i27AS w/Bitex hub last years black friday sale and paired them with 2.4 tires. I'm about 200 lbs kitted up and have jumped them, gone through rock gardens, rocky rooty trails etc. Zero issues and came in claimed weight of ~1500 grams. $700 shipped to my door. BTLOS is solid.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

combfilter said:


> Not that scary really. I like nino's rule for psi. Drop it down till you ding a rim then add 1psi.  It surprisingly works well. I come across so many riders that run way too much psi in both road and mtb. It's a game changer in speed and grip if you can get it dialed to as low as possible without risk to the rim or feeling like you are cornering on jello. Even as small as 1-2psi on wider tires/rims makes the difference between bouncing off obstacles vs the tire conforming over the obstacle with less obstruction to forward movement.
> 
> If you think those numbers are scary @145lbs , my road bike is 25mm inner width rims that I run schwalbe pro ones 700x28 (blow up to 30.3 on my rims), I run 48f/50r psi on those. It's great.


I ding my rims every now and then on my local fast rocky trails at 22-23psi with 2.5 Maxxis tires. I would destroy your tires at your pressures and don't like to feel my tires fold on corners any lower than 20 up front.. Either you go real slow at those pressures or your trails are super smooth or both so it works for you.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

saintamour said:


> After waiting for Black Friday specials, I finally took the plunge on a carbon wheelset! I was comparing Roval with BTLOS, EliteWheels, and LightBicycle. Ultimately, I went with BTLOS for the customization and good feedback here. Lots of good choices out there in any case.
> 
> Then I overanalyzed choosing between WM-i27AL and WM-i29A. I ride a 2022 Epic Evo Comp with aluminum i30 wheels that do the job, but they're heavy at +2100 g. Building up a light FS bike has always been a want for me, so I think that's what pushed me to choose the WM-i27AL wheelset. That, and I have no intentions to go past a 2.4" tire, so the 27 mm inner width seems like a good fit. My build spec puts the wheelset at 1276 g!
> 
> ...


Have your wheels arrived and been put through their paces?

I'm very keen on a set of BTLOS hoops in 2023. I had been set on getting a set of the Premium AM i30 rims, but the new 27AL sure has a lot going for it. I really like the extra volume the 30mm width gave me on my current rims.

I'm also trying with an Onyx Vesper rear hubs, so the weight difference in the 27 would be nice to offset the heft of the hub over my current 240's.


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## saintamour (Jun 13, 2012)

mail_liam said:


> Have your wheels arrived and been put through their paces?
> 
> I'm very keen on a set of BTLOS hoops in 2023. I had been set on getting a set of the Premium AM i30 rims, but the new 27AL sure has a lot going for it. I really like the extra volume the 30mm width gave me on my current rims.
> 
> I'm also trying with an Onyx Vesper rear hubs, so the weight difference in the 27 would be nice to offset the heft of the hub over my current 240's.


Nope, I'm still eagerly waiting for delivery. It has shipped, but the tracking info isn't available yet. I'll be sure to post initial impressions. Unfortunately, I won't be able to put it through its paces until March-ish. It's fat bike season at the moment. 

I'm betting both interior widths are close enough that they're both great. Just depends on if you want to go bigger than 2.4" tires.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

mrdimi said:


> Any extra duty on getting these to Canada or is it just GST/HST?
> 
> No extra Duties or Taxes.


Just recieved my second set. This time got hit with Taxes, but only $38.
Luck of the Draw.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

Was considering building up a light trail wheelset for my SB115. Leave or ditch the stock XM1700 for rougher days and run a lighter carbon set with Rekons or XR3/4s, 2.4 max.

After looking at some pricing, seems hard to beat BTLOS builds. Considering using DT 350s and their WM-i27AL.

weight is attractive of the 27 id and should be good for 2.4 tires (e.g. Rekon, Rekon Race, new Forekaster, XR4, XR3)?
195 lbs in gear, considering 28h and D-Light spokes, mistake? No issues with stock XM1700 (28h, but Sapim race equivalent)

Does BTLOS run sales? The wheelset with shipping is ~$1200, seems reasonable for 1400g. Building them myself is basically the same price unless I hunt for hubs on PB and/or sub $350 rims.


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## flgfish (11 mo ago)

They'll do a sale for Chinese New Year, which is January 22nd until February 1st.
I got my BTLOS wheels with free shipping this summer sometime.


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## helmat (May 31, 2021)

They did a Christmas sale, I ordered a set of 29i standard wheels with Bitex hubs for 640$ inkl shipping. Should come at about 1550g. So far haven't heard anything regarding shipping, but I expect it to take some more time if the sets are build to order.


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## jmitchelltfo (5 mo ago)

bmwpowere36m3 said:


> Does BTLOS run sales? The wheelset with shipping is ~$1200, seems reasonable for 1400g. Building them myself is basically the same price unless I hunt for hubs on PB and/or sub $350 rims.


I've only been watching their website, off and on for the past six months or so........ the best sale I've seen was back in October/November when they offered free shipping. I bought my first wheelset from them for $800 ish after shipping with DT350 hubs. That was including the premium layup (better warranty) and Sophy also suggested the 160kg layup (not listed on the website) when I asked about commuting with them.

I had an issue with Rene Herse and Teravail tires not cooperating with the BTLOS hookless rim........I sent some pictures and asked some questions since all the specs were within the approved ranges for the wheel and tire manufacturers. Sophy offered 20% off which is about the same as free shipping and covering the credit card/PayPal fee. I gladly accepted and just ordered a second set with a hooked rim and will save the other wheelset for bikepacking on more gnarly terrain with heavier casing tires.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

jmitchelltfo said:


> I've only been watching their website, off and on for the past six months or so........ the best sale I've seen was back in October/November when they offered free shipping. I bought my first wheelset from them for $800 ish after shipping with DT350 hubs. That was including the premium layup (better warranty) and Sophy also suggested the 160kg layup (not listed on the website) when I asked about commuting with them.
> 
> I had an issue with Rene Herse and Teravail tires not cooperating with the BTLOS hookless rim........I sent some pictures and asked some questions since all the specs were within the approved ranges for the wheel and tire manufacturers. Sophy offered 20% off which is about the same as free shipping and covering the credit card/PayPal fee. I gladly accepted and just ordered a second set with a hooked rim and will save the other wheelset for bikepacking on more gnarly terrain with heavier casing tires.


Were those gravel rims?


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## jmitchelltfo (5 mo ago)

bmwpowere36m3 said:


> Were those gravel rims?


The second set was the WGX35A. I would have preferred a 25mm internal measurement, but 22 was the only width in a hooked rim. I asked about the possibility of a wider hooked rim or any upcoming sales or free shipping promotions…….no dice. So I went ahead and ordered the wheelset a week ago. 

My first set was a 30mm all mountain/enduro setup since I thought that would allow me to run anything from a 29x2.2 up to 29x2.5. That didn’t go as planned, and I learned a little bit about supple casings on hookless rims.

Now I have the ability to run pretty much any tire I want between those two sets of wheels.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

jmitchelltfo said:


> The second set was the WGX35A. I would have preferred a 25mm internal measurement, but 22 was the only width in a hooked rim. I asked about the possibility of a wider hooked rim or any upcoming sales or free shipping promotions…….no dice. So I went ahead and ordered the wheelset a week ago.
> 
> My first set was a 30mm all mountain/enduro setup since I thought that would allow me to run anything from a 29x2.2 up to 29x2.5. That didn’t go as planned, and I learned a little bit about supple casings on hookless rims.
> 
> Now I have the ability to run pretty much any tire I want between those two sets of wheels.


I guess I never heard about this issue wrt MTB tires and wheelsets. Some quick googling seems mostly talk related to CX or gravel/road.

Bonty has 120 tpi casings in their team issue line, pretty supple and on the very light end for MTB by many folks. Even Maxxis Aspen or Rekon Race…


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## jmitchelltfo (5 mo ago)

bmwpowere36m3 said:


> I guess I never heard about this issue wrt MTB tires and wheelsets. Some quick googling seems mostly talk related to CX or gravel/road.
> 
> Bonty has 120 tpi casings in their team issue line, pretty supple and on the very light end for MTB by many folks. Even Maxxis Aspen or Rekon Race…


After some research, it seems that the wider rim, hookless design, and 38 psi, it wasn’t going to work in tubeless format for me. The Teravail Sparwood was even easier to blow off the rim. I just wish tire manufacturers were more transparent about exactly what widths and rim types they recommend for each tire. Lesson learned on my part, I’ll just have different wheelsets for each. 

I’m 280 currently……..so that definitely played into it also.
The biggest thing I found out during my research was that most of the 29x2.2 tires showed 30-55 psi on the sidewalls. I found quite a few people that run those tires quite bit lower than the recommended pressure. I had assumed that 30 was the minimum, so my big ass needed more pressure to compensate for the load.
I’m running 29x2.4 Schwalbe Hurricanes (tubed) right now and will run skinnier Marathons once my hooked wheels show up.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

bmwpowere36m3 said:


> Does BTLOS run sales? The wheelset with shipping is ~$1200, seems reasonable for 1400g. Building them myself is basically the same price unless I hunt for hubs on PB and/or sub $350 rims.


Boxing week was pretty good as they offered 15% off and free tape/valves and free shipping.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

OldMike said:


> Boxing week was pretty good as they offered 15% off and free tape/valves and free shipping.


Christmas is a long ways away


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## Kristian94568 (Sep 6, 2016)

They have sales on most holidays. I would assume they have something for Valentines


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