# Norco Bigfoot VLT 1



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

I picked this bike up last week and it is my first foray into E-bikes.

Having never ridden one, I was quite surprised at the whole experience.

Having said that, I am a dedicated Singlespeeder and will not be getting rid of my self powered bikes. I enjoy the e-bike, but I still prefer doing all of the work.

Just for reference, I am 155 lbs and 48 y/o male.

After I picked it up from the LBS, I essentially changed all of the parts over from my carbon fat bike and put an an Eagle AXS system on it.

I am about 3 minutes faster on this bike on our local singletrack loop versus my geared Orbea OIZ, and 5 minutes faster than my single speed - also the OIZ. On a Fat Bike - Wow. This is over 28 miles and approximately 1 hour and 55 minutes (plus or minus).

Outside of that, the bike handles great and is relatively playful. The option with the front suspension is definitely the way to go, and the front end is pretty easy to pop up over roots and rock.

I thought I might regret the purchase of an aluminum framed bike, but it rides just about the same as my carbon Fat bike.

With a 630 Wh battery, I was down 3 bars on the display after my ride but just barely. So, I'd say 2.5 bars. This would give it a range of over 50 - 60 miles using trail and boost mode 50/50.

In the snow, I suspect that I would get about 35-40 miles depending on the actual conditions. Obviously this is just a guess.

Overall I'd rate the bike as a pretty good value at $4,600 US.

Let's see how it holds up this winter and being stored in an unheated garage especially with the battery not being easily removed.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

To know the range you go 100 to 0%, bars are an indication, not particularly precise.
Happy trails.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

33red said:


> To know the range you go 100 to 0%, bars are an indication, not particularly precise.
> Happy trails.


Like I said - just a guess.

Will never take it down to 0% and after 40 miles I could care less.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Zerort said:


> Let's see how it holds up this winter and being stored in an unheated garage especially with the battery not being easily removed.


Interesting, it looks like Norco is using the Shimano motor system with their own proprietary battery.

You might want to find a place to keep it indoors if the battery is not removable. All battery manufacturers recommend not letting the battery get far below freezing, and most say do not charge unless the battery is at least 40F. If your VLT came with an owner's manual, maybe Norco addresses the issue in there.

Batteries generate heat as they discharge, and some people put a neoprene jacket on their ebike battery in winter while riding to help it warm up and retain more heat.

Here is what Bosch says:

Care - How to increase the service life of the battery
Charging - Batteries should be charged in a dry location and at room temperature.

Storage during winter - Store batteries in a dry location at temperatures between 32° F (0° C) and 68° F (20° C).

Fully charging or fully discharging results in higher loading of the battery. The ideal charge status for lengthy periods of storage is approx. 30 to 60% or two to three LEDs on the battery indicator.

Cleaning & care - Cleaning with a direct water jet is impermissible, in particular to protect the electronic components. Before cleaning the eBike, remove the battery.

Occasionally clean and lightly grease the connection port.

Winter use - During winter use (particularly below 32° F (0° C)) we recommend charging and storing the battery at room temperature before inserting the battery in the eBike immediately before riding it. For longer journeys in the cold, it is advisable to use thermal protective covers.

Storage - Temperatures below 14° F (-10° C) and above 140° F (60° C) should be avoided.

Transport - For transport, the battery should always be removed from the eBike and safely transported in your car, for example.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

All great info. 
Unfortunately the battery is not easily removable so either Norco has a design flaw or it should be ok.

I'll come up with something creative to keep it away from temps below 0 degrees F. 

I won't be bringing it in the house very much because I use studded tires and the bike weighs a ton. 

I'll either disassemble it in extreme colds, or keep a heat pad on low on it.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Zerort said:


> All great info.
> Unfortunately the battery is not easily removable so either Norco has a design flaw or it should be ok.
> 
> I'll come up with something creative to keep it away from temps below 0 degrees F.
> ...


It will not be OK. I wrote to them on their facebook page and it was their choice. Your bike will be in a heated place.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm not sure what you are saying here. 
Bike will be stored in a cold, unheated garage. 

How can they sell a cold use ebike if it wont be ok?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Let it in cold and call it a piece of junk, it is your choice.
Put carpet, learn to carry it with your shoulder under the seat but cold will cost you a ton of troubles and $$$$.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Here is their page https://www.facebook.com/norcobicycles/


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What tires are you running? Will a 5" tire fit in the back of the Bigfoot?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

My 4.8 Vee Snow Avalanche are just about at the limit. Seeing as fat tires don't usually run true, I think a 5" would most likely rub.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Would a 29x3.0 fit?


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Just for reference, I am 155 lbs and 48 y/o male.


Tell me please, how tall are you?
And what size frame did you choose?

Reach very big = 440 in size M.
I do not know what to choose for 175mm - M or L size frame.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

To the OP, where do you live? 
Any cold problem, solution??


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> Tell me please, how tall are you?
> And what size frame did you choose?
> 
> Reach very big = 440 in size M.
> I do not know what to choose for 175mm - M or L size frame.


I chose a Large. I am 5'9". Fits great


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

33red said:


> To the OP, where do you live?
> Any cold problem, solution??


I live in Michigan.

No problems with the bike. It stays on the unheated garage.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I cant find a VLT 1... The LBS is saying MARCH!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

kntr said:


> I cant find a VLT 1... The LBS is saying MARCH!


That sucks.
I bought mine in September.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Zerort said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying here.
> Bike will be stored in a cold, unheated garage.
> 
> How can they sell a cold use ebike if it wont be ok?


 It'll be fine, for sure batteries have a preferred temp range, but it's not a iron clad make it or ruin it thing. I drive a plug in Prius, and park it in a unheated garage, and I let the BMS sort it all out, which your bike battery will do also.

Having said that, it would be super easy (assuming you have power in the garage) to provide some gentle radiant heat via several different methods. A 100 watt or less radiant heat rubber mat that you park the bike on, and an old blanket thrown over it, would suffice. https://www.amazon.com/Cozy-Product...+heat+rubber+floor+mats&qid=1575819292&sr=8-7


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)




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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> I chose a Large. I am 5'9". Fits great


Thank you. I choose M for 175mm. Fits great too


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> That sucks.
> I bought mine in September.


Do you have problem with WALK mode?

I start WALK mode, then press and hold on the key.
The bike twitches slightly, but don't travel.
The power indicator shows an empty bar.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Never used that function. Sorry


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Never used that function. Sorry


Found why WALK don't work normal - bad contact in shift switches SW-E8000.

Do you use a mobile app for shimano drive?
I'm afraid to install it 
I'm afraid that regional settings apply for Europe: max speed 30km/h -> 25km/h.
This is real?


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

kntr said:


> I cant find a VLT 1... The LBS is saying MARCH!


Delivery time 7-9 days for Germany:
https://www.bike24.com/p2355349.html?q=bigfoot


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> Found why WALK don't work normal - bad contact in shift switches SW-E8000.
> 
> Do you use a mobile app for shimano drive?
> I'm afraid to install it
> ...


I did download it. And wasn't very impressed with the functionality of it. I only played around with it a very limited amount of time because it didn't see anything unique.

To change the speed limiter from the EU to the US, you have to have a separate device that you plug into a desktop or a laptop. I don't recall what it is exactly, but I think I saw it on the Shimano site.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

For all the doom and gloomers out there about the battery and cold weather, it states on the battery the storage temps as:

-20 degree C to 35 degree C.

So no worries about cold weather storage.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Here are some weights, in grams for you too. In case you are curious.















15.3 pounds for us Americans


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

It means ounce empty you wait for warm weather.
Here with minus 40 it can last dayssssss.


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Here are some weights, in grams for you too.


Thanks, very interesting.
Can you make photo the frame without drive and battery, inside the frame?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> Thanks, very interesting.
> Can you make photo the frame without drive and battery, inside the frame?


Sorry, I did not get a photo of this before I put it back together. I do have this picture though.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Made the move to a 120mm fork.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Zerort said:


> Made the move to a 120mm fork.
> View attachment 1303777


I was thinking that would be my first upgrade. How does the 120 feel? Where did you find an orange Mastodon.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Haven't ridden it yet. 

Its supposedly limited to 100 units. A number of places have them. I got mine direct from Hayes.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

kntr said:


> I was thinking that would be my first upgrade. How does the 120 feel? Where did you find an orange Mastodon.


Update.
The 120 is a worthwhile upgrade. I no longer have pedal strikes like I did before.

It relaxes the seat tube which I like because I was always scooting back on my saddle before and no longer find myself doing that.

It also slackens the head angle some and makes it more stable and brings the reach in a bit.

Overall a win win.


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Made the move to a 120mm fork.


Very beautiful 
Thanks for foto frame!

I have problem with charging device! 
It's heats up very much.
Did you do anything with chilling the сharging device?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> Very beautiful
> Thanks for foto frame!
> 
> I have problem with charging device!
> ...


My charger sits in my cold garage with my bike.

I haven't had any issues.


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> My charger sits in my cold garage with my bike.


cool way 

Did you look at the spare parts for the motor?
Maybe the motor should be serviced regularly?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> cool way
> 
> Did you look at the spare parts for the motor?
> Maybe the motor should be serviced regularly?


Probably not needed. It's electric.

Not sure what would wear out or need servicing for 1,000 miles a year max???


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## Andreyka (Nov 26, 2019)

Zerort said:


> Probably not needed. It's electric.


Yes!
But there are several bearings in the Bottom Bracket this motor.
There gets a lot of dirt and sand.
Maybe the Bottom Bracket must serviced regularly?


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

Just pre-ordered (for April-ish) a Bigfoot VLT 1. Does anyone have a ROM weight for one of these things as shipped? Thanks!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Andreyka said:


> Yes!
> But there are several bearings in the Bottom Bracket this motor.
> There gets a lot of dirt and sand.
> Maybe the Bottom Bracket must serviced regularly?


There is no "bottom bracket".

If you clean your bike, it won't get dirty to the point of failure.

Do you clean your car's wheel hub bearings?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

CucMan said:


> Just pre-ordered (for April-ish) a Bigfoot VLT 1. Does anyone have a ROM weight for one of these things as shipped? Thanks!


Not sure what you mean by ROM weight, but I would estimate that my bike is well over 60 pounds.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

Zerort said:


> Not sure what you mean by ROM weight, but I would estimate that my bike is well over 60 pounds.


ROM - Rough Order of Magnitude. Which is exactly what you provided, and thanks for that!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

CucMan said:


> ROM - Rough Order of Magnitude. Which is exactly what you provided, and thanks for that!


Lol. Ok. Cool.
It's a heavy beast, but it rolls so well I often ride it without the motor on.

And, I can pretty much keep up with everyone on the trails. It only becomes an issue on very long climbs.

Punchy ones are fine because the frame is very stiff and efficient.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

Zerort said:


> Lol. Ok. Cool.
> It's a heavy beast, but it rolls so well I often ride it without the motor on.
> 
> And, I can pretty much keep up with everyone on the trails. It only becomes an issue on very long climbs.
> ...


Yeah, wasn't planning on having it be a featherweight for sure! At 60+ just kinda tired of slugging out the Alaska winters (and now that we mostly ride in some form of gorpish "snow like substance" - when not ice). Frankly, I'd still buy it if it were heavier!

Plan to stay non-ebike in the summer for now. Was trying to sense check weight with regard to a 1 bike (2") hitch rack. Will most likely be able to trim a few pounds with normal upgrades - so this should be right in there.

By the way I was tracking your posts prior to purchase - so thanks for the good write-ups!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Zerort said:


> Made the move to a 120mm fork.
> View attachment 1303777


Can you actually weigh it?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

kntr said:


> Can you actually weigh it?


You wish is my command. 54 lbs. Size Large















Here are my mods:

Studded version of the stock tires - these do weigh more
Deleted the dropper post 
Chinese carbon Ebay bars
Carbon front wheel (stock rear)
Sram Eagle AXS rear derailleur
Lightweight Wren stem
Hope 203mm disc rotors - might weigh a bit more than stock
Eagle XX1 chain
120 mm Manitou fork. Might weigh the same or more. Didn't weigh it.

I don't think I have eliminated a lot of weight. My guess would be around 2 pounds.

I'm really surprised it weighed in at 54. I thought it was a lot heavier.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

Zerort - you are the man!

Let's not even get to the part where you were willing to dead-lift that bad-boy to weigh it!


Kudos fall short.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

No problem. 

I just want to get as much information out there as I can so other people can enjoy this bike as much as I do.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

Zerort said:


> No problem.
> 
> I just want to get as much information out there as I can so other people can enjoy this bike as much as I do.


Much appreciated - dumping wet snow now - April (or whenever it really gets here) can't come soon enough!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

I'll be riding this bike all year. No snow needed. 

It really could be someone's only bike. It's that good.

Enjoy


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks Zerort. 54 lbs isn't too bad really. I still can't decide between the Bigfoot VLT or the e-Mutz. I really like full suspension fat bikes.


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

are Foes doing an Ebike? can't see it not their website ?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090023862.pdf
"Temperature The temperature at which the battery is charged and discharged has a pronounced effect on its capacity and voltage characteristics. This is due to the reduction in chemical activity and the increase in battery internal resistance at lower temperatures."


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

cozz said:


> are Foes doing an Ebike? can't see it not their website ?


Soon from what I hear.


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

kntr said:


> Soon from what I hear.


that would be great, im waiting for a full sus fat E bike with bosch gen 4 and 625 battery


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Zerort said:


> I'll be riding this bike all year. No snow needed.
> 
> It really could be someone's only bike. It's that good.
> 
> Enjoy


Resurrecting this thread.

My LBS just called. They were able to track down 2 VLT1s for me and my daughter.

Thank you Zerort for all the helpful info in this thread, and your PM encouragement. Much appreciated.

I will report back once I have them in hand.

To say I am stoked is the understatement of the year. I have been trying to convince my daughter to fat bike with me for years. She finally agreed. This season ended way too quickly. Now we are able to carry on with it.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Pictures of you and your daughter with the bikes are required.

Enjoy!!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I tried to order one and they said, May. Well, winter will be over by then.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

kntr said:


> I tried to order one and they said, May. Well, winter will be over by then.


Yes, but then you'll have it for next winter.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Zerort said:


> Pictures of you and your daughter with the bikes are required.
> 
> Enjoy!!


Re-reading this thread, while eagerly awaiting the arrival of my pair of VLT 1s...

So much **** being spewed above on the cold battery (non)issue. Glad you set the record straight. That kind of uneducated, smartest guy in the room crap, is what makes researching online dangerous. Dude apparently had zero first hand experience yet he was acting like he knew what he was talking about with certainty. Good job taking him to task.

How about a longer term review now that you have had significant time aboard this bike?

I am getting increasingly impatient. Currently my deck and riding conditions 30 minutes from my house, look like this...


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## OperatorBo (Mar 20, 2011)

Just picked this up today. Man is it fun!!
What tire pressure have you found that works best. I am running tubeless. Think I was a little low on its first ride in the dirt. 
Looking for what you guys are running for psi on dirt, snow and pavement









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

OperatorBo said:


> Just picked this up today. Man is it fun!!
> What tire pressure have you found that works best. I am running tubeless. Think I was a little low on its first ride in the dirt.
> Looking for what you guys are running for psi on dirt, snow and pavement
> 
> ...


I'm still waiting for the pair I bought a few weeks ago to arrive. In the meantime, I am wondering whether there is anything I need to upgrade before they leave my LBS.

Brakes seem sketch, especially given the bike's weight. How do you find them?

Also, the single gear at a time shifter - you good with that?

The only other thing I thought about is the rear d.

I am throwing Wrathchilds on both (tubeless) and keeping the Cake Eaters for 3 season use.

Any info you can offer would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you.

PS - any ride reports and more pics would also be greatly appreciated.


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## OperatorBo (Mar 20, 2011)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I'm still waiting for the pair I bought a few weeks ago to arrive. In the meantime, I am wondering whether there is anything I need to upgrade before they leave my LBS.
> 
> Brakes seem sketch, especially given the bike's weight. How do you find them?
> 
> ...


Brakes aren't to bad. Has 200mm rotors front and back. Im used to Code RSC's. But these will do for now. Definitely gonna get a longer dropper post. As for the gears. I find I shift less with e bikes. My regular bike has AXS so to me, every shifting system is less than optimal. Bike is surprisingly nimble and playful though. Gonna try and get out again this morning before this big storm is supposed to hit. Will have more pics than.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

OperatorBo said:


> Brakes aren't to bad. Has 200mm rotors front and back. Im used to Code RSC's. But these will do for now. Definitely gonna get a longer dropper post. As for the gears. I find I shift less with e bikes. My regular bike has AXS so to me, every shifting system is less than optimal. Bike is surprisingly nimble and playful though. Gonna try and get out again this morning before this big storm is supposed to hit. Will have more pics than.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. ANY random comments or suggestions of any sort would be greatly appreciated. Can you tell I am stoked? Lol.

What size of frame is that? How tall are you?


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## OperatorBo (Mar 20, 2011)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Thanks. ANY random comments or suggestions of any sort would be greatly appreciated. Can you tell I am stoked? Lol.
> 
> What size of frame is that? How tall are you?


It is a large I am 6'. You are gonna love it! So much fun. Other than demoing a couple regular e bike. This is my first. I think being a fat bike and electric is the perfect mix to make winter riding really fun. As for the bike, I need more time on it to really have any more general suggestions. Also that is my second fat bike ever and going into my second winter with one. So I am a noob when it comes to fat biking.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

OperatorBo said:


> It is a large I am 6'. You are gonna love it! So much fun. Other than demoing a couple regular e bike. This is my first. I think being a fat bike and electric is the perfect mix to make winter riding really fun. As for the bike, I need more time on it to really have any more general suggestions. Also that is my second fat bike ever and going into my second winter with one. So I am a noob when it comes to fat biking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I appreciate that I am really pushing it here, but any comments on the SX single click shifter? The NX rear d? The Level T brakes, that you have not already mentioned?

My LBS identified those as things I may wish to swap out before I take the bikes home.

This delay in delivery is not good - it's causing me to overthink things.

That said, for the cost of this bike, I must say that the component spec is...underwhelming.

I own a lot of bikes and not one of them is speced even close to this bike. My dedicated winter commuter hard tail is nowhere near the spec level of the Norco. Not trying to be a dick but holy mackerel. And don't get me going on the dropper. No wonder it's too short for you. It's 130mm. And yet another total budget priced component.

I might be able to understand this a bit better if this bike was priced a lot lower than it is, but it isn't. The damned thing is premium priced! I jumped at the chance to grab 2 of these but looking at the spec level, I am pretty shocked that I may have to spend even more money now - a significant amount potentially - on an already premium priced bike to try to bring it up to an acceptable level. Let's not forget - this is an alloy frame hard tail. Sure it's an e-bike but so what? This shouldn't give Norco license to hang a bunch of **** off it and throw a bespoke level price tag on it.

I am looking forward to drinking a few beers tonight watching SNL beat the crap out of fatso, and watching Dave and the Foo Fighters rip it up. And to try to forget I just dropped $13k CDN on 2 bikes with absolute bottom of the barrel components.

PS - there is very little on this bike that is not bargain basement level. In addition to the brakes, drivetrain and dropper, the cranks, bar, grips, pedals (ok - better than most), pretty much everything - is absolute bargain basement level. Not even mid level. Bottom of the line level. Aaarrrggghhh. Am I missing the boat on this or is Norco laughing all the way to the bank?

TL; DR - anything I need to upgrade before I take them home from the LBS? I have never owned a drivetrain, brakes or dropper at this low a component spec. Thank you.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I appreciate that I am really pushing it here, but any comments on the SX single click shifter? The NX rear d? The Level T brakes, that you have not already mentioned?
> 
> My LBS identified those as things I may wish to swap out before I take the bikes home.
> 
> ...


If you did not want something in my opinion you should have been aware of the total cost of what you were buying. Nobody tells me what i should upgrade. Some idiots try but i know what i want. Picking up my new Ebike 4 months ago i asked them to cut the handlebar. They tought i was going to narrow, i said my bike = my call and i love my narrow bar. It is ridiculous in my opinion, just ride that bike and have fun. There is no need to fit your bike for others, make it yours.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

33red said:


> If you did not want something in my opinion you should have been aware of the total cost of what you were buying. Nobody tells me what i should upgrade. Some idiots try but i know what i want. Picking up my new Ebike 4 months ago i asked them to cut the handlebar. They tought i was going to narrow, i said my bike = my call and i love my narrow bar. It is ridiculous in my opinion, just ride that bike and have fun. There is no need to fit your bike for others, make it yours.


Ummm...okay, thanks. Or something.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> TL; DR - anything I need to upgrade before I take them home from the LBS? I have never owned a drivetrain, brakes or dropper at this low a component spec. Thank you.


E-bikes parts tend to be rugged and heavy vs the nicer parts found on normal bikes. These days, NX steel cassettes and lowly M520 Shimano brakes get the job done.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> E-bikes parts tend to be rugged and heavy vs the nicer parts found on normal bikes. These days, NX steel cassettes and lowly M520 Shimano brakes get the job done.


Thanks. I suspect though that the NX rear d is significantly more trouble prone than my XO, XT or SLX rear d. Same goes for the NX chain. It definitely goes for the plastic SX shifter.

Just because it's an e-bike, or a fat bike, or an e-fat bike, doesn't give these guys a free pass on the components. I want to use this bike on double black dirt come spring. Level T brakes on a 32 pound bike are sketch. On a 54 pound bike? Total bullshit as far as I am concerned. Especially for a $6500 alloy hardtail. And yeah - I know. I bought two of them. It's fine. I will address the shortcomings. Nobody is going to go hungry. But holy crap.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Thanks. I suspect though that the NX rear d is significantly more trouble prone than my XO, XT or SLX rear d. Same goes for the NX chain. It definitely goes for the plastic SX shifter.
> 
> Just because it's an e-bike, or a fat bike, or an e-fat bike, doesn't give these guys a free pass on the components. I want to use this bike on double black dirt come spring.


I guess part of that can be blamed on customers. They buy stickers.
If it says 12 Speeds = modern
If it says dropper = i must have it
If reviews(fake publicity) say it is very good = it is safe to buy that thing even if it is a piece of SH.T that keeps braking down.
I find it mind blowing the price tag accepted by many customers like paying 6,000$ and adding lots of upgrade.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

33red said:


> I guess part of that can be blamed on customers. They buy stickers.
> If it says 12 Speeds = modern
> If it says dropper = i must have it
> If reviews(fake publicity) say it is very good = it is safe to buy that thing even if it is a piece of SH.T that keeps braking down.
> I find it mind blowing the price tag accepted by many customers like paying 6,000$ and adding lots of upgrade.


Sometimes one can learn a lot from fake publicity and sponsored riders -






and the parts they reject probably work just fine for old dudes like me


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> Sometimes one can learn a lot from fake publicity and sponsored riders -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not just that they are low end components. That's only half the equation. It's also that this is a premium priced bike.

Anyway, my fault. Nobody forced me to buy them. And I certainly do not regret doing so, even at the price I paid.

Fat bikes appear to be a niche market. So much so that Specialized has pulled out of it. E-bikes are a niche market. Fat e-bikes must be crazy niche, thereby warranting a somewhat bespoke price tag.

Maybe part of the issue is small production runs to recover sunk costs. Not sure.

At the of the day, the real cause is me. I bought two of them. Basic supply and demand. The market set the price on these. As far as I know, there aren't any left to be bought. The whole production run sold out.

The niche market + COVID allowed pricing at this level. If I wanted in, then I had no choice but to pay the price of entry.

It's ok. Part of my craziness last evening was fuelled by fire water. I'm still glad I got them. Damned glad. And excited! I will either ride them as is and enjoy them, or I will replace what I want, and enjoy them even more. Totally cool. It's the latter option I was seeking advice on - suggestions on what to replace, when I went into a downward spiral on the tangential issue.

Thanks guys for putting up with my wishy washiness and seemingly insane random musings last evening.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

mtnbkrmike said:


> It's not just that they are low end components. That's only half the equation. It's also that this is a premium priced bike.
> 
> Anyway, my fault. Nobody forced me to buy them. And I certainly do not regret doing so, even at the price I paid.
> 
> ...


I understand your position.
There are very few offers and with covid there are many buyers in Canada and i guess in many areas. I felt lucky on june 30 i found a nice(for me) Ebike in my size. It took 5 days to get it shipped close to me than 5 days to have it built. In 4 months i paid 70$ for a pair of 2.8 and sold my 2.6 for 35$ so that is my update situation. In a month i will need a new chain so i am still very close to the suggested retail price. It is hard to find tires and many parts so price shopping is close to non existant. Some ask crazy prices on the used market so i hope you enjoy that Ebike as much as i enjoy mine. Happy trails


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Life is short. Looks like I am going to go with an XO shifter and rear d, and possibly Magura MT Trail Sport brakes, for each bike. I appreciate the Magura run mineral oil, so I am also looking into Hayes Dominion A4s that run DOT fluid (although I fully suspect that the Maguras will be far more affordable). 

These bike companies need to be told that their customer base for fat bikes, e-bikes, and fat e-bikes is comprised, at least in part, by enthusiasts who can tell the difference between components, including 2 pot brakes not suitable for a 30 pound trail bike, let alone a 54 pound e-bike. What a disgrace and a complete bullshit choice by Norco, especially for a $6500 bike. Pathetic.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Life is short. Looks like I am going to go with an XO shifter and rear d, and possibly Magura MT Trail Sport brakes, for each bike. I appreciate the Magura run mineral oil, so I am also looking into Hayes Dominion A4s that run DOT fluid (although I fully suspect that the Maguras will be far more affordable).
> 
> These bike companies need to be told that their customer base for fat bikes, e-bikes, and fat e-bikes is comprised, at least in part, by enthusiasts who can tell the difference between components, including 2 pot brakes not suitable for a 30 pound trail bike, let alone a 54 pound e-bike. What a disgrace and a complete bullshit choice by Norco, especially for a $6500 bike. Pathetic.


The answer in my opinion is simple.
An aluminium frame is just a few $, add extra affordable components it leaves room for marketing and profits $$$$. I had some Magura and i loved them.
You would not believe 4 years ago i bought a top of the line XC 21 pounds HT. It was a year old, the carbon frame had no name so i only paid 1,000$ but the same thing with a Trek sticker was 4,500$. It is so great i only had to change the chain and brake pads. Like you said with a few $ they put a bike together but the marketing make buyers over pay.


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## lzpup (Nov 8, 2004)

Can this run 27.5 x 3? Looks like a really fun bike


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

lzpup said:


> Can this run 27.5 x 3? Looks like a really fun bike


I don't know the answer to this, but the first of my two finally arrived today. Now I'm waiting for my daughters. I will let you know as soon as I find out.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

In. Da. House.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I wish I could find one. My LBS said none left...


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

kntr said:


> I wish I could find one. My LBS said none left...


I lucked out. My LBS tracked mine down. They had to do a deal with an unrelated shop in another part of the country to get my daughter's. Both were about 4 weeks late getting here. My LBS went the distance for me on these, especially since they also gave me a decent discount on both.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I now have some legitimate mountain riding in. A few comments:

1. The ECO mode is WAY too powerful even for blacks in the winter. I need to use the app to ramp it way down. Same for my daughter. As for Trail and Boost, no idea when these would be required.

2. The battery will last forever in ECO mode. 2.5 hours of cold temp riding last night and I had 4 of 5 bars left. My daughter had 5 of 5 left. Once I ramp down ECO mode, I will get even more out of it, as crazy as that may be.

3. The OEM components are all more than fine, except tires and dropper. I will keep the Cake Eaters for 3 season use. I have studded Wrathchilds on there now. The dropper is horrible, to the point of being defective. I say this because I have my daughter's to compare it against. I need to get this warrantied or repaired.

4. The bike is a beast. It's like a tank. It has traction forever and it soaks up everything in its path. No idea why full suspension fatties are a thing (except for guys running non-fat tires, I suppose).

5. These bikes were expensive. That said, I already feel as though I got my money out of them. My mountain night ride last evening with my daughter was something I will never forget. Incredible.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Interesting to see Norco copied off of me and now offers the orange fork as stock. Too funny. Only problem is they should have went for the 120. Totally transforms this bike.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Zerort said:


> Interesting to see Norco copied off of me and now offers the orange fork as stock. Too funny. Only problem is they should have went for the 120. Totally transforms this bike.


I may very well be wrong but I think that the 100 is transformable to 120 and beyond internally.

Thanks for all your help with this by the way. Much appreciated.

On our way for another epic blast...


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Yeah, it probably is. The 120 is the way to go as it raises the BB.

Hope you are enjoying them.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Can they find another one? I need a medium.


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

4. The bike is a beast. It's like a tank. It has traction forever and it soaks up everything in its path. No idea why full suspension fatties are a thing (except for guys running non-fat tires, I suppose).

No idea what you are basing this on. Full suspension, you bet, absolutely destroys a hardtail in the blacks, green, purples, where ever you want. I have seen the norco in the local shop, it is still for sale. And compared to my full suspension fattie when I ride to the local shop, my fattie garners all the attention, no one hovers around the norco.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

2SLOFATASS said:


> 4. The bike is a beast. It's like a tank. It has traction forever and it soaks up everything in its path. No idea why full suspension fatties are a thing (except for guys running non-fat tires, I suppose).
> 
> No idea what you are basing this on. Full suspension, you bet, absolutely destroys a hardtail in the blacks, green, purples, where ever you want. I have seen the norco in the local shop, it is still for sale. And compared to my full suspension fattie when I ride to the local shop, my fattie garners all the attention, no one hovers around the norco.


Wtf?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Just wanted to provide a quick update, now that I have some legit riding in. Took the week off and blasted to Fernie for some fun in the snow.

I am still 100% stoked about the bike. Not so sure about the Shimano motor though.

The Walk mode is next to useless. Great idea but I suspect the lawyers made them tame it down way too much on power and speed for liability reasons. I wish I could ramp it up using the app. No dice on that.

Also, the surge and initial general abruptness while moving from coasting to pedalling is really disconcerting. I was fiddling around with settings other than ECO for the first time last night. Boost is next to ridiculous. I was almost thrust into a tree on some tightly treed single track.

I need to get in there with the app and try to ramp these modes down a bit to make them feel less abrupt, and more natural.

Still loving the bike but the shortcomings with the Shimano motor are really apparent to me. Like I said though, I need to fiddle with things using one of the apps to try to tame its on-off abruptness.

I will report back after I do that.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm just going to add something right here.

Tonight we rode for 4.5 hours. The bikes did not disappoint. No abruptness. Silky smooth actually.

Maybe I was in a mood or something last night.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

It seems to me that you are living the life, brother! Gotta be fun, but do you have to be in ECO just to stay warm?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> It seems to me that you are living the life, brother! Gotta be fun, but do you have to be in ECO just to stay warm?


Agreed. Living large at the moment.

We don't ever take these bikes out of ECO. There is more than enough assist in that mode to climb legit blacks. And the battery lasts forever. Like I said - 4.5 hours tonight and we had 4/5 bars of power left.

The temp here has been around freezing the whole time so very pleasant!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Back in Fernie. Went for a long night ride. Bikes would not charge afterwards until I brought them inside and let them warm up.

****. I am now wondering whether I am going to have do do something about my uninsulated, unheated garage.


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## OperatorBo (Mar 20, 2011)

This thing is a Blast in the snow!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Agreed.

The only real challenge has been charging in cold temps. 

I’m coming up with charging solutions when the bike is cold. I used a hot water bottle on the down tube which worked. I may pick up a car “battery blanket”. When I travel with these bikes, an outdoor shed is often the only storage option. When the batteries get below freezing the chargers do not function.

But yeah. These bikes have been over the top fun.


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## Jamiedjazz (Jan 19, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Agreed. Living large at the moment.
> 
> We don't ever take these bikes out of ECO. There is more than enough assist in that mode to climb legit blacks. And the battery lasts forever. Like I said - 4.5 hours tonight and we had 4/5 bars of power left.
> 
> ...


What sizes are the two bikes? Do you think a size lower would be way to small? Say if you are recommended large but go with medium?


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## Jamiedjazz (Jan 19, 2021)

2SLOFATASS said:


> 4. The bike is a beast. It's like a tank. It has traction forever and it soaks up everything in its path. No idea why full suspension fatties are a thing (except for guys running non-fat tires, I suppose).
> 
> No idea what you are basing this on. Full suspension, you bet, absolutely destroys a hardtail in the blacks, green, purples, where ever you want. I have seen the norco in the local shop, it is still for sale. And compared to my full suspension fattie when I ride to the local shop, my fattie garners all the attention, no one hovers around the norco.


If someone is 5'11 would a medium size be ok?


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

Jamiedjazz said:


> If someone is 5'11 would a medium size be ok?


I am riding a 51cm, and was tempted to ride a 45cm because the inventory of 51cm bikes was almost impossible to find. I eventually found a 51cm, and after several months of ownership am glad I did NOT settle on the 45cm. (same height) I believe a 45cm would be too small for you and you would not be happy, even though the salesperson at one of the shops tried to convince me the 45cm would of been fine, I am glad I didn't listen to him. (this info is for the Bulls Monster EFS)


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## Jamiedjazz (Jan 19, 2021)

2SLOFATASS said:


> I am riding a 51cm, and was tempted to ride a 45cm because the inventory of 51cm bikes was almost impossible to find. I eventually found a 51cm, and after several months of ownership am glad I did NOT settle on the 45cm. (same height) I believe a 45cm would be too small for you and you would not be happy, even though the salesperson at one of the shops tried to convince me the 45cm would of been fine, I am glad I didn't listen to him. (this info is for the Bulls Monster EFS)


What would be too small? The pedal reach? Handle bar height?


----------



## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)




----------



## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

Read,


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## umicheng (Mar 24, 2011)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I may very well be wrong but I think that the 100 is transformable to 120 and beyond internally.
> 
> Thanks for all your help with this by the way. Much appreciated.
> 
> On our way for another epic blast...


Hey guys -- I am looking for a Small frame VLT 2 to ride on trails and pathways here in the states. I ride MTB extensively in the summer but this is my first FAT and E-Bike (familiar with the trails you posted in Fernie!  ) Honestly the purchase is mainly to tire out my border collie in the winters. I can't nordic far enough to tire him out and he looks at me like I need to find a solution to his high energy. We have great groomed trails in the winters too though (+/- 1500 feet vert would be easy to find).

But after this very informative (thank you) post I am wondering if I am going to want to splurge for the 1 (fork) instead of 2. Then it looks like the frames are the same? And if 120 really is better than the 100 they used, should I just save the $, by the hardtail version and put on a new 120 fork? Also how necessary is the fork any way? Again, no fat bike experience, but doesn't it the high volume in the tire help out a lot? I'm not going to speed records, I just want to have fun (I love riding in snow on my regular bikes!) hah

Also, so new to this market, timing etc, being it almost March...do you guys think it'd be better to wait til the 2022 models -- if there might be some changes to the battery, etc?

Lastly, what tires studded are you guys loving on these bikes? I appreciate your opinions, advice, etc! Thanks!!!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

umicheng said:


> Hey guys -- I am looking for a Small frame VLT 2 to ride on trails and pathways here in the states. I ride MTB extensively in the summer but this is my first FAT and E-Bike (familiar with the trails you posted in Fernie!  ) Honestly the purchase is mainly to tire out my border collie in the winters. I can't nordic far enough to tire him out and he looks at me like I need to find a solution to his high energy. We have great groomed trails in the winters too though (+/- 1500 feet vert would be easy to find).
> 
> But after this very informative (thank you) post I am wondering if I am going to want to splurge for the 1 (fork) instead of 2. Then it looks like the frames are the same? And if 120 really is better than the 100 they used, should I just save the $, by the hardtail version and put on a new 120 fork? Also how necessary is the fork any way? Again, no fat bike experience, but doesn't it the high volume in the tire help out a lot? I'm not going to speed records, I just want to have fun (I love riding in snow on my regular bikes!) hah
> 
> ...


Just responding to a few things;

1. The biggest advantage of the VLT1 over the VLT2 (IMHO) is the battery.

2. The fork is awesome on the VLT1. I love it. But if you don't intend to ride the bike on dirt, the fork is considered by some to be little more than added weight. I don't think that. It functions incredibly well on the snow for me.

3. I am riding studded 45NRTH Wrathchilds. They are ridiculously priced, and worth every penny.

4. The 2022 model will have the new Shimano EP8 motor. It's a bit more powerful and controllable/tuneable through the app than the motor in mine (the E8000), but the new one is reported by almost all as having an irritating rattle on the downs and whenever there is no torque on the crank.

Mine has not been trouble free. Neither has my daughter's. But all the kinks have been finally worked out.

Today at the trailhead we saw 3 other ones - so 5 in total - all identical. All of us were stoked AF about the bike.

In addition, I ran into one of the groomers today on the trail and he told me that the Trail Association bought 3 of the VLT2s. He was very interested in my fork. On one of them, they put a Bluto on it and he much prefers it over the other 2 rigids.

The VLT1s my daughter and I have, have provided us with an invaluable experience. I am so happy we bought them, and feel very fortunate to have been able to track them down during the Covid shortages.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Just responding to a few things;
> 
> 1. The biggest advantage of the VLT1 over the VLT2 (IMHO) is the battery.
> 
> ...


What problems have you had?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Owners of the 3 Shimano end up writing it works fine WHEN it works, 
They have a number of issues, error codes, etc...
If you want a bike in the shop get any of the 3 Shimano and you will be happy.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

33red said:


> Owners of the 3 Shimano end up writing it works fine WHEN it works,
> They have a number of issues, error codes, etc...
> If you want a bike in the shop get any of the 3 Shimano and you will be happy.


Not a single error code for myself or my daughter after over 40 legit terrain rides for each of us since October 2020. These bikes have been ridden hard and often.

The issues we have had with our bikes all have to do with various irritating drivetrain noises that have been addressed. I have OCD when it comes to unwanted bike noises. I can't tolerate them.

We have not had any motor related issues.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

umicheng said:


> Hey guys -- I am looking for a Small frame VLT 2 to ride on trails and pathways here in the states. I ride MTB extensively in the summer but this is my first FAT and E-Bike (familiar with the trails you posted in Fernie!  ) Honestly the purchase is mainly to tire out my border collie in the winters. I can't nordic far enough to tire him out and he looks at me like I need to find a solution to his high energy. We have great groomed trails in the winters too though (+/- 1500 feet vert would be easy to find).
> 
> But after this very informative (thank you) post I am wondering if I am going to want to splurge for the 1 (fork) instead of 2. Then it looks like the frames are the same? And if 120 really is better than the 100 they used, should I just save the $, by the hardtail version and put on a new 120 fork? Also how necessary is the fork any way? Again, no fat bike experience, but doesn't it the high volume in the tire help out a lot? I'm not going to speed records, I just want to have fun (I love riding in snow on my regular bikes!) hah
> 
> ...


Although the VLT 2 500Wh (vs VLT 1 630Wh) battery has been mentioned, probably worth noting the difference in motor and computer (VLT 2 e7000 vs VLT 1 e8000). At 60Nm the e7000 seems a bit anemic these days.

Have been using a 2020 VLT 1 all winter, zero issues. The Shimano "motion detect when turning on" error is a non-issue once you anticipate it - and my understanding is that is gone with the EP8.

I also think you will be totally stoked any way you go.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

CucMan said:


> Although the VLT 2 500Wh (vs VLT 1 630Wh) battery has been mentioned, probably worth noting the difference in motor and computer (VLT 2 e7000 vs VLT 1 e8000). At 60Nm the e7000 seems a bit anemic these days.
> 
> Have been using a 2020 VLT 1 all winter, zero issues. The Shimano "motion detect when turning on" error is a non-issue once you anticipate it - and my understanding is that is gone with the EP8.
> 
> I also think you will be totally stoked any way you go.


I don't even understand how this error code arises for anyone in the first place. I turn the motor on before I get on the bike. If there is any criticism, it's that the rubber button on the down tube can be a little finicky. It wouldn't dawn on my to get on my bike, torque the crank and then fiddle with the start button to power up the motor while on the bike. That seems awkward as he11 to me.

100% agree on the totally stoked comment. These bikes have changed my biking life. And I have been biking seriously for 25+ years with no break, so that's saying something.


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I don't even understand how this error code arises for anyone in the first place. I turn the motor on before I get on the bike. If there is any criticism, it's that the rubber button on the down tube can be a little finicky. It wouldn't dawn on my to get on my bike, torque the crank and then power up the motor. That seems awkward as he11 to me.


Actually, it doesn't take that much. If you rock the bike back or forth a little when hitting the power button it will activate. Really anything that engages the crank even a little. I just learned to remember to be holding the rear brake lever when turning on (or just being still). I assume some units/users might be more sensitive/prone to this than others.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

CucMan said:


> Actually, it doesn't take that much. If you rock the bike back or forth a little when hitting the power button it will activate. Really anything that engages the crank even a little. I just learned to remember to be holding the rear brake lever when turning on (or just being still). I assume some units/users might be more sensitive/prone to this than others.


Happy to say I have never got this error message, or any other one, and neither has my daughter, and neither of use the brake lever or are otherwise the slightest bit careful or cognizant of the issue when powering up the bikes. We are heading out now for another afternoon and evening in the mountains. I am going to try to intentionally activate this error code to try to understand this better.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Has anyone heard about the new Norco Bigfoot VLT? Rumor is 27.5x4.0 tires and up to a 900wh battery.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

kntr said:


> Has anyone heard about the new Norco Bigfoot VLT? Rumor is 27.5x4.0 tires and up to a 900wh battery.


It is hard to trust any rumor. Many ordered bikes last sept and oct and have not seen them yet.
The supply chain is months behind. The 500 Wh was kind of the norm in 2019. In 2021 it has become
more for budget builds. The 625 is popular and different brands offer about a 300 extra so it might be in the plans.
Will they be in the retailers in november? In January? It is all speculations.
Here in Canada assisted bikes are exploding so to get one you realy must put money down as soon as possible.
There is no way they will build as many as they could sell. We see road, hybrid, mountain, fat with or without throttle.
Giant is planning to deliver 2021 Emountainbikes untill december so talking about next year we might be talking about february.
Unless you will ride it year round a february delivery is very late.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

33red said:


> It is hard to trust any rumor. Many ordered bikes last sept and oct and have not seen them yet.
> The supply chain is months behind. The 500 Wh was kind of the norm in 2019. In 2021 it has become
> more for budget builds. The 625 is popular and different brands offer about a 300 extra so it might be in the plans.
> Will they be in the retailers in november? In January? It is all speculations.
> ...


My info came from a bike shop. I was hoping to hear more about the Bigfoot or another fat ebike.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Anyone have more info about the 2022 Bigfoot VLT?


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## Bombin4X (Nov 19, 2004)

Following. I’ve been looking for a VLT1 in XL and can’t find one anywhere. And Norco’s website says “all bikes unavailable.”


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

From hours ago…


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dang it! I want a fat ebike. Foes cant get parts. Norco Bigfoot not available. Maxx Huraxdax not available in USA.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

kntr said:


> Dang it! I want a fat ebike. Foes cant get parts. Norco Bigfoot not available. Maxx Huraxdax not available in USA.


I’m just glad you don’t have my address…


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

The last i read, in Canada the 2022 is expected to get here next august.
Maybe it is time to pre-order if they do those.
After some 14 months of pre-order some riders are expecting to receive some fats in Canada.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

*2022 Bigfoot VLT1:*

27.5 wheels
540, 720 or 900 Wh removable battery
October 2022 arrival date
$6,299 CDN + battery = $7,450 to $8,000 CDN plus GST
Colour unknown
Will likely look like it was dragged through a SRAM factory with a $hit magnet attached to it








I have a small and large locked down but I'm now wondering whether I should, instead, hang on to these beauties for a while yet...









27.5 and a removable battery is nice but my 2020s above are DIALLED. I can't imagine things on the trail being any better on the new ones. And $8400 each plus another $1000 in tires, and $1500 in required drivetrain upgrades. That's a cool $19,300 in total. Wow. To replace bikes that took me a season to iron out all the wrinkles, but which are now perfect. Hmmm...









Not to mention that I was cursed at birth with being hyper sensitive to krap bike noises. The rat-tat-tat-tat of that EP8 motor will be worse than Chinese water torture* for me.
*am I still allowed to use that term?


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Why get rid of _great_ to move on to _good_?


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## RDO (Apr 26, 2016)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Not to mention that I was cursed at birth with being hyper sensitive to krap bike noises. The rat-tat-tat-tat of that EP8 motor will be worse than Chinese water torture* for me.


Yup, and nothing like the quiet when there's fresh deep snow. I'd wait at least till next year.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

1spd1way said:


> Why get rid of _great_ to move on to _good_?


The reasons I or others might consider making a change include the following:

1. More powerful EP8 motor - that said, we are never left wanting with the power from the E8000 - this really isn’t a reason to change _for us_ - and again, there is no rattling issue with the E8000 when coasting, which is a known issue with the EP8 - I believe the EP8 offers more adjustability and fine tuning for each of the 3 modes as well (again, not a calling card for me) - one little quibble that I have learned to live with is that with the E8000, when I lay big and immediate power down to the pedals, it’s almost like it’s cadence governed or something, as I feel a little resistance to the bike’s momentum - I assume this is an algorithm thing but it was a little annoying at first when I was trying to go balls to the wall.

2. More powerful battery - again, not an issue for us - we can ride in cold temps for well over 4 hours with 2 or 3 of 5 bars of power left on our 630 Wh batteries (presumably because we are rarely out of Eco mode on the less powerful E8000 motor).

3. Removable battery - this would be more convenient - my workaround is to use flexible car battery blankets wrapped around the downtubes to “fool” the charger when charging below freezing in my garage - otherwise, the charger will not charge if it senses that the battery is below freezing - it would be nice to avoid this step, and to be able to keep the batteries warm in the cab of my truck, en route to the trailhead but again, pretty small issues.

4. 27.5 wheels - I may indeed like this wheel size more - not sure - that said, I have zero complaints running studded 4.6 Wrathchilds on 26 x 80 rims - those wheels and tires blow me away every single ride, including yesterday.

5. Nicer digital readout with the EP8 - that is about the only thing that I don’t like about our current bikes. Maybe it’s user error but I have read lots, watched lots of videos and tried to fiddle with that digital gauge for hours but in the end, it’s been of limited use for me (I bought an Edge 830 - problem solved).

6. Resale value sweetpoint on my current bikes - not sure if after 2 full seasons on them it’s a good time to consider letting them go - apart from financial reasons, I also don’t know if/when expensive problems may be in store with the battery, the motor or the electronics.

There may be other reasons too.

Still thinking about things. I’m in a great position - I have two new bikes I have locked down with no commitment, and two bikes in hand that I absolutely love, if I stick with the status quo.


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