# 4 door trucks... Tacoma? Frontier? Other?



## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

I currently own a 525i station wagon. It is a great vehicle and I enjoy driving it daily. Which is much more than I could say about my old '97 Trooper. The problem is that there is not enough room in the wagon to be useful for me on family trips. I have a roof rack for 3 bikes, but that leaves only the rear cargo area for all of our gear. (Coolers, sleeping bags, dry goods, tents, tools, gear, etc.) On the occasion that I do load up the wagon, it is completely loaded. I couldn't fit in a pencil into the cargo area and the back seat usually has two kids (my son and a friend) along with pillows, gadgets and stuff. I need a truck, but which truck? I have been searching for a truck with decent room, 4 doors, good fuel economy (at least 18mpg minimum), 4wd, and reliable for many years. Mind you I will probably keep the wagon since it is still a good car and is something I take my customers and prospects around in (+ it is paid off!). Now, is a Tacoma best option or should I look at the Frontier or the Colorado?? Mind you I will not be purchasing a brand new truck. Maybe a couple of months old to 2 years old. What truck is best and why in your opinion is it the best. I've read all kinds of stuff from the manufacturers, but would like real world answers from other mountainbikers. Thanks in advance for your ideas, comments and answers.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Tacoma Period. I average 21 MPG but I am a slow driver. I have the longbed 07 prerunner double cab and I could not be happier with it. I looked at the Colorado and I was not impressed with the quality. The frontier is a good truck but it is smaller. I can pack 4 people 2 dogs and 2 bikes with camping gear in mine easily. Off road the Taco is great with good ground clearance. If you want a 4x4 it is much more capable off road than the others you mentioned. This is my 3rd toyota truck. My last Tacoma was a 2 door and it had 285,000 miles on it the day I sold it and it still ran great. The only problem I had with it was a drive shaft bearing that cost me 300 bucks to fix.


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## callmeCrash (Aug 28, 2007)

We had this same dilemma a month ago. Keep in mind this is my female opinion, so be nice if I don't know the real technical specs on the truck....

I prev drove a Toyota Matrix, same problem, not enough room for gear, bikes etc. I test drove both the Tacoma and the Frontier. I looked at the Colorado but didn't like how cheap the interior looked felt plasticky (is that a word?) 

One difference I noticed is that the Tacoma had a way better turning radius, similar to my Matrix, compared to the Frontier, easier to drive/turn. 

I decided on the 2007 Frontier just really for cosmetic reasons I liked the look of it better plus it was slightly cheaper and had a better interest rate than the Tacoma, I love my truck, lots of room for drinks, big map pockets, we drive alot back and forth to the mountains handles well on the ups, (my matrix was way underpowered) and get about 600km on a tank of gas. (I'd convert that for you but hubby isn't home and I'm Canadian!!)
Either truck would be a good choice, just take 'em for a spin (just like bikes you'll know which feels better!)


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

Tacoma: Refined, expensive
Frontier: Incites Hooligan antics with snappy handling, small backseat
Colorado: The inline 5's a dog. V8 in 09 though.


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*I just drove the Colorado and Ford Sport Trac*

OK, you are all right regarding the Chevy Colorado. It just plain feels chaeper inside. It had the inline 5 cyl (Had one of those in an old Audi 90CS but the Audi was much quicker!). That Chevy was not at all quick and the inside was "plasticky" (thanks for the new vocabulary work callmeCrash!). The Ford Sport Trac was gimmicky. It felt kind of like my buddies Ford Exploder but the rear seats were a bit more cramped. The bed in the Ford was waaay too short and narrow. Neither one was worth purchasing to me. The Ford was about $30K for a new one and the Chevy was in the $20k+ area for one that was used and had scratched windows. (probably from an upset girlfriend...) Still need to drive the Tacoma and the Frontier.


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## onepivot (Jan 14, 2004)

We have a Dakota Quad Cab and it's ok for two people with gear but not comfortable for more people and start to run out of room for gear unless we put the bikes on the hitch.

My question is this - if you like the car why don't you add another rack on it to haul all your gear? I bought a Mit. Endeavor that I use a 2 - 4 bike hitch rack for. For two people, 4 bikes and gear that's all I need. However, with 3 people, bikes, the dog and gear there isn't enough room, soooo - added a basket on top to carry the biking gear. Luggage and cooler then fits in the cargo area and up to 4 bikes hanging off the back. It really travels great like that. This set up can even another bike or two up top on the basket.

You could do something similar with your car. If you like the bikes up top, why not put a hitch rack cargo carrier on the back? You can remove it when you don't need it and drive your car as usual. Probably won't affect your mileage much either since you already have the bikes on top.

Unless you're just dying for a new vehicle.....

Good luck on your search!


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

Yeah, I thought about changing the racks to accommodate 4 bikes, but that would mean that the load bars on the rack would stick out very far and would be a hazard to get into and out of the car. I cannot install a hitch rack since the rear bumper does not allow for a hitch mount unless I cut into the bumper and make a hole in it. (Not really sure that is such a good idea.) Also, the clearance on my wagon is not all that great. I can't go all that far off of the road, so making it to the campground or camping spot is often sketchy, hence the need for a truck.


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

If you can swing it a 2007 Chevy or GMC. The 4wd models get 20mpg hwy and will have plenty of room.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

I have an 04 Frontier CrewCab. I bought it because I have a strong affliction for Nissans (I had 4 up until the end of June). It was also the only longbed available at the time. I can fit my very long bike and one other bike in the shell and lock it. Anything larger (Titan, F150 or bigger) wouldn't have fit in my garage.
My stepson had an 06 or 07 Colorado. It spent most of it's time at the dealer. He dumped it for an 07 Frontier CC. Most of the things that I don't like about my 04 have been resolved in the 07, including better leg room in the back seat.
One advantage of the long bed is the ride is very nice. Disadvantage is it's like turning an aircraft carrier.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

I would (and did) go with the Frontier (05 CC Nismo). There are a couple of things you should know:
1. In order to maximize MPG, get either the SE or LE. The NISMO comes with a locker and lower gears that drop MPG significantly. Stick is more efficient too.
2. There is scarce availabilty of aftermarket parts for the frontier, but the market is catching up.
3. The longbed crew cab is only available in 2007+ model years. No significant changes are expected until 2009.

The deciding factor for me was the $3000 (that is one nice bike build there) that I didn't spend by getting the Nissan.

Good: 
+Ride quality is great
+265hp moves
+Plenty of room, and comfortable/usable room at that

Bad:
-MPG (but hey, it is a truck and I got the one with the lower gear ratios not knowing better).
-Little after market accessories (but that saves me money by not getting UGI on the truck)
-trying to come up with something else....oh, someone mentioned the turning radius. I am used to it.

Either one will hold its value well, and shouldn't give you any real problems. The Tacos are seeing some problems with the plastic beds under some uses, but it doesn't sound like you ride quads or anything.

The Taco recommends Premium fuel too, which the Frontier doesn't. That saves some change as well.

Drop in on clubfrontier.org and check out what people say about the frontier- it is all on there, both good and bad, and several comparisons with the Taco from people who switched (both too and from the Taco and Frontier - not at all one-sided).

I usually just drop my bike in the bed if going solo, but if taking two or more bikes, I do have an above-the-bed setup that mtbill inspired. Perfect camping/go anywhere vehicle, just wish I could push it hard more often.

Get out there and drive both, it is really just personal preference. I know Taco fans are more die-hard, but give it a shot.

Feel free to ask ?s!


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*OK, now down to Tacoma and Frontier*

CharacterZero,
Thanks for the reply. That is a pretty sweet setup on your truck. I will have to check out the interior of the two trucks for myself. I have a friend of mine (who happens to be a mechanic) that burned up his rediator driving his new Titan and pulling a toy-hauler out to the desert. He lifted the Titan and had larger whels/tires, so I am sure that the gearing did not help at all. As for that video, it was great and very helpful. I like the Nismo features, but am not sure that I want to lose the MPG since I will not be towing anything too heavy anytime soon. I had a lifted '95 Nissan King-Cab 2wd that was a respectable vehicle. It just was too small to haul my son around in the back seat so it had to go!. I was leaning towards the Tacoma, but I will be out at the Nissan dealer later today to check out their trucks. BTW, that is one sweet setup on your NISMO.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

That video left me a bit confused. They basically said the Tacoma scored better off road, towed better and had more room and was lighter but they gave the Nissan the win without really explaining why. I tested both and they are both very good trucks but I chose my Tacoma for its larger bed and the size of the interior. It is much harder to park than the Nissan. I was on the fence about my purchase because the pricing is very close on both. I liked the higher HP and torque but the Taco had better acceleration which didn't really make sense. I liked the overall ride and handling of the tacoma better but the nissan had a quieter interior. Both interiors are nice and feel solid. The tacomas front seats are not as nice as the Nissan but the rear seats are roomier and more comfy.

It is a tough choice between the two. The Taco is considerably larger although lighter which was the real selling point for me. I have a camper shell for mine and I just throw the bikes in the back and lock them up. With the Nissan the bed was not as big as I wanted. It really comes down to personal preference. Quality wise you can't go wrong with either truck. 

Oh and you can run regular fuel in a Tacoma just fine. Toyota recommends premium for maximum HP. My fuel economy went up to around 23 mpg when I got a camper shell.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

jonsocal said:


> CharacterZero,
> Thanks for the reply. That is a pretty sweet setup on your truck. I will have to check out the interior of the two trucks for myself. I have a friend of mine (who happens to be a mechanic) that burned up his rediator driving his new Titan and pulling a toy-hauler out to the desert. He lifted the Titan and had larger whels/tires, so I am sure that the gearing did not help at all. As for that video, it was great and very helpful. I like the Nismo features, but am not sure that I want to lose the MPG since I will not be towing anything too heavy anytime soon. I had a lifted '95 Nissan King-Cab 2wd that was a respectable vehicle. It just was too small to haul my son around in the back seat so it had to go!. I was leaning towards the Tacoma, but I will be out at the Nissan dealer later today to check out their trucks. BTW, that is one sweet setup on your NISMO.


Thanks man.
I did just put on a 2" lift/leveling kit and bigger tires, and saw a slight hit in MPG (all from the tires). Funny thing about both the trucks is the stock tires are very weak - 40lbs a peice. Just putting on some real tires adds 25% to that (Nitto TGs).

I cannot imagine someone burning up their radiator because of a lift/tires....sounds like a combination of factors (incl. the heat?).

As for the Nismo features, here is my take if you are going to do any serious OR driving: Get an SE/LE and upgrade/replace components as you see fit. The Nismo doesn't necessarily have a tow package or the hill descent/assist.
Factory skids - pretty weak. Good at keeping brush/branches at bay, but will have to be replaced if a real rock hit occurs. Shrockworks makes full skids.
Bilstien shocks - Super nice. No doubt they are a little bit stiffer, but reduce body roll and are responsive. Easy to buy off someone who is upgrading suspension on the board, or aftermarket with Ranchos or something.
Locker - Saved my ass once. Just once in 2 years. Maybe there will be an aftermarket soon for non-nismos. I bought it to save my ass, and it did the job.
Utilitrack - Great. Sturdy. Very sturdy. All metal!
Nismo Wheels - They are wheels. Plenty of options out there.

Anyways, hope that helps. I went with the Nismo for the locker and because it had all the stuff on the Power Package that the SE I was eyeing had.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> That video left me a bit confused. They basically said the Tacoma scored better off road,


I had to watch it 2x to get that they actually only really give the nod to the Taco for sand-driving (like you said, it is lighter) but they do spend the majority of the vid talking Taco! I would watch it again, but stupid internet filter....grrr...


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## ickyickyptngzutboing (Mar 30, 2005)

I looked at 4 doors and ended up going with Colorado -- I agree, the interior could use some work, but it's a really nice truck. It isn't as big as the new Tacomas and Frontiers which are no longer compacts, but mid-size trucks--I didn't want an extremely large truck.

As far as no pep, the inline 5s have plenty of power--even more so if you get a tune for about 100 bucks to get rid of GM's PITA torque management. Also, the V8 coming in the Colorado will be GMs 5.3L, and that will actually be an 'o8.5 model year, due to be out in about January/February.

As far as when it comes to mountain biking -- well, it's a Crew Cab truck... I don't think one is going to do much better over another, unless you look at the bed lengths? The Colorado only has one bed length, and doesn't offer the long bed length of Tacoma or Frontier--however, I think it makes those trucks look excessively long and goofy IMO. I have a Thule rack system on the roof of my truck, and Tonneau Cover for the bed (Undercovers are pretty good, lightweight but yet sturdy enough to stand on).

If you're looking for off-road capability (which I don't think you are), the Colorado does really well. With the G80 mechanical locker, even idiots can get themselves out of messy situations (but, it's more the driver than the vehicle when it comes to going off-road).

Bottom line, the truck is more utilitarian to me--I've never been one for flashy interiors, it's just more to mess up and destroy. The exterior is pretty good looking to me, and I don't think anyone gives the Colorado the chance it deserves. A lot of people argue that because the Tacoma is a Toyota it'll be flawless and indestructible like the Camrys, but Toyota's quality control isn't bars ahead of other manufacturers anymore--I'm not trying to bash Toyota, but as they've grown, their quality of work has diminished, they now have all the some sort of problems with various models just like any other major manufacturer. The inline 5 is pretty amazing--lightweight, strong, and good fuel economy (better than 18), and you can always count on stumping everyone when you tell them what engine you have in there. Does it haul bikes? Yea, easily. Does it off-road with ease? Oh yea. 

What would I do? Well, test drive them all, and since all of these vehicles will serve your bike hauling needs equally, it's going to come down to which vehicle you feel most comfortable in. And, I'd see which can give you the best incentives/warranties--haha, but that's from a guy who just got out of college...


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

This thread is stupid. None of you people need trucks.

Not being able to put a hitch rack on your Bimmer is NOT a good reason to buy a double cab with a V8.


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## ickyickyptngzutboing (Mar 30, 2005)

I don't need a truck and you're ignorant. Both false statements I assume. There's no need to question our needs -- I purchased the vehicle that I need, and it makes a lot more sense to buy these small trucks than getting something bigger than I need in a full-size. I have to drive to remote places for work (geophysical and geotechnical) and in doing so I have to tow trailers not only for work, but personally for me. And when raising a family is right around the corner, it makes more sense to keep that in mind, so by buying a crew cab now, I don't have to purchase another vehicle in a few years.

I'm not going to judge what others need, but instead give my opinion on the what they asked me. If a person asks to compare certain vehicles, I'll compare those vehicles and may suggest another if I think it fits in well--rather than ruin the thread with a fairly useless post.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

ickyickyptngzutboing said:


> I don't need a truck and you're ignorant.


I didn't say ingnorant, I said stupid. Congratulations if you actually pull something with your truck.


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## GoFaster2 (Jul 23, 2006)

first chance I get my car goes bye bye for a Crew cab full size truck. I hate not being able to haul things,tow or just haul my bike. My car sits to low for hitch mounted rack and they dont make a trunk mounted one and the only roof one justs clamps to the door frame. So I really dont have a option for mounting a rack to my car. Now I realize why trucks are so popular.


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*Singletrack- Nice Troll, Douchebag....*



singletrack said:


> This thread is stupid. None of you people need trucks.
> 
> Not being able to put a hitch rack on your Bimmer is NOT a good reason to buy a double cab with a V8.


come on Singletrack. Do you really have the need to troll this post? :nono: Shouldn't you be out kicking dogs or cats or maybe stealing things? Don't be an Azz. It is funny that you are trolling here and not in the Ellsworth or Turner forums. You'll get much better results there.

Go out, pack all your gear in your Yugo, and ride. You'll feel better afterwards..... 

BTW, where did it say I wantd a V8? Read thouroughly before you troll.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

It's not a troll, I think giving up a beauty of a touring car for a double cab pickup is silly. I'll try to candy coat it for ya'll next time.


Yugo?


Edit: OK, maybe it was a little trollish


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

singletrack said:


> This thread is stupid. None of you people need trucks.
> 
> Not being able to put a hitch rack on your Bimmer is NOT a good reason to buy a double cab with a V8.


Posts like this make me happy to drive a fullsize four door truck that has an exhaust loud enough to wake the dead and a big ass thirsty V8 that pisses off people like you.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

singletrack said:


> This thread is stupid. None of you people need trucks.
> 
> Not being able to put a hitch rack on your Bimmer is NOT a good reason to buy a double cab with a V8.


Wow, you are so amazingly insightful.  You know so much more about me than I do. Please post your home phone number so I can call you for all my important decisions, because obviously, I don't know what is best for me.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

singletrack said:


> This thread is stupid. None of you people need trucks.
> 
> Not being able to put a hitch rack on your Bimmer is NOT a good reason to buy a double cab with a V8.


1. You're a towel.
2. Only one of the trucks listed will get a v8 in the next 2 years, dipsh!t. They are 6 cyls (and the one getting the v8 is a 5).
3. I would like to see you fit all that trailbuilding **** in your suby. Really. With 4 people to build.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

CharacterZero said:


> 1. You're a towel.


Hey, tell me about all the offroad mods on your Nismo again. You've used the locker once huh? Were you stuck in your driveway?



dragonhead08 said:


> Posts like this make me happy to drive a fullsize four door truck that has an exhaust loud enough to wake the dead and a big ass thirsty V8 that pisses off people like you.


Jebus, what a colossal POS. You ever get those 20"s dirty? And don't worry about your whiny 5 liter waking me up, I've got straight pipes on my boxer. Ya know, For the $30k you dropped on that monstrosity, you could have just opted for cosmetic surgery.

Seriously, call me a troll but this a contentious issue. You don't need a half-ton truck to haul bikes and sleeping bags! Sorry fellas, but I do know better. Big trucks are stupid. It's insulting that the vehicles in this thread are all marketed as "compact pickups". WTF.

I could really give a damn about how much fuel you guys dump into your rigs, it's your paycheck. A modern full-size truck is gonna spew less emissions than my old Subi, hands down. It's really not the point. It's about bigger cars, bigger streets, bigger stores, bigger parking spots, bigger suburbs, bigger Americans and the loss of community that comes from driving around 6 feet off the ground in a 4000 pound edifice with the AC on not seeing **** that's going on around you. Not to mention that you'll likely end up killing someone in a reasonably sized vehicle when run them over 'cause you didn't notice them from way up in la-la land.

There are certainly applications for big trucks; I drove a 5.7l 3/4 ton for many years. If you've got big equipment to haul then more power to ya. But the OP and many others obviously have no such need, so get your collective heads out of your separate asses.

Now I'm sure I'm not changing anyone's mind here, so I'll just let you all go about your self-gratification via consumerism.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

singletrack said:


> Hey, tell me about all the offroad mods on your Nismo again. You've used the locker once huh? Were you stuck in your driveway?


Re-read the post, TROLL. I said that I bought the Nismo package for the powerpackage and locker. And I said the locker saved me ONCE. Just once. I wasn't stuck, but would have been, about 30 miles from the trailhead for Noble Canyon. That tow would have cost $300?! for a specialized truck to get where I was. Asshat.



singletrack said:


> Seriously, call me a troll but this a contentious issue. You don't need a half-ton truck to haul bikes and sleeping bags! Sorry fellas, but I do know better. Big trucks are stupid. It's insulting that the vehicles in this thread are all marketed as "compact pickups". WTF.


1. Not a half-ton, TROLL.
2. NOT marketed as "compact," but instead Mid-Sized. I am oblivious to marketing and even I know that.



singletrack said:


> I could really give a damn...


Rant elsewhere.



singletrack said:


> There are certainly applications for big trucks; I drove a 5.7l 3/4 ton for many years. If you've got big equipment to haul then more power to ya. But the OP and many others obviously have no such need, so get your collective heads out of your separate asses.


Good for you. IDFC.



singletrack said:


> Now I'm sure I'm not changing anyone's mind here, so I'll just let you all go about your self-gratification via consumerism.


Thanks.
You're a towel.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

singletrack said:


> blah, blah, blah
> I drove a 5.7l 3/4 ton for many years.
> blah, blah


 So you didn't need the truck you had? That doesn't automatically make the rest of us truck owners as dumb as you were.

Ever hauled 1000 lbs of clay in your Suby? Pulled a 3000 lbs trailer? Carried 10 bikes? Carried 500 lbs of 4' X 8' MDF? Driven through 18" deep snow?

I didn't think so.:nono:


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*Good gravy.... Lets get the points straight here....*



singletrack said:


> Seriously, call me a troll but this a contentious issue. You don't need a half-ton truck to haul bikes and sleeping bags! Sorry fellas, but I do know better. Big trucks are stupid. It's insulting that the vehicles in this thread are all marketed as "compact pickups". WTF....
> ...Not to mention that you'll likely end up killing someone in a reasonably sized vehicle when run them over 'cause you didn't notice them from way up in la-la land.
> ...But the OP and many others obviously have no such need, so get your collective heads out of your separate asses.
> Now I'm sure I'm not changing anyone's mind here, so I'll just let you all go about your self-gratification via consumerism.


Damn, where do I begin? OK, first, I am not at all giving up my beloved wagon. It is respectable on gas and is PAID OFF!  It will still be my daily driver for the most part. My lady drives a Toyota Corolla and loves it so she is the gas mileage queen of the household. I need a truck to haul around the extra gear and people to places where my wagon can't/won't reach. Hence the request for a truck that gets respectable mileage. (Have you ever tried to get a somewhat low bmw wagon into one of the campsites out at Moab? (I have and have been stuck too many times.) I realize you live near Moab or go there often (I have ridden the Portal trail and lived to make it to the bottom with minimum dabs, but will never do it again! I have people other than myself to live for.  ) Plus the weight of all of that crap is miserable on the transmission and engine. My wagon just wasn't meant to haul 4 bikes, 4 to 5 people, tents, bags, bike gear, food, coolers, clothes, etc. If I could utilize the truck for that, well, then I am much better off. The trucks I am inquiring about are engineered to withstand that weight and load. If I can get respectable fuel economy, then I am even better off. I realize that I do not need to explain myself to you, but I did just to state the facts clearly. BTW, my buddy had an older Subie wagon and I loved that thing. Those Boxxer motors are phenomenal in that they just won't die. (believe me, he tried to kill it.) Those cars have good torque and very respectable mileage. Very utilitarian, yet it still wouldn't work for me since I usually have 4 to 5 people total in the vehicle on the camping trips. Now if you feel it is in your best interest to rip me or others for wanting a mid-sized pickup with respectable mileage to take our friends and families and all of our gear with us out to places that we don't venture to nearly often enough, then knock yourself out. :ihih:


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## L4NE4 (Apr 24, 2007)

well if this thread hasnt gotten high jacked and trolled enough... I highly recommend the toyota... visit yotatech.com and/or ultimateyota.com for more information. Heres a pic of mine.. an 88 4runner still goin strong.










and our other 94 pickup


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

I do love those removable top old Toyos (and I had a Bronco at one point).

So, JonSoCal, get any test driving in this weekend?!


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

singletrack said:


> And don't worry about your whiny 5 liter waking me up, I've got straight pipes on my boxer.


Your comparin a four banger to a 5.6L 8?

You kill me.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

ChapmanMTB27 said:


> well if this thread hasnt gotten high jacked and trolled enough... I highly recommend the toyota... visit yotatech.com and/or ultimateyota.com for more information. Heres a pic of mine.. an 88 4runner still goin strong.


Those are sweet, you won't hear me complaining about anything based around a 22re. The original 4Runner is a total ripper, as were Taco's up until 2004. Before they became re-badged Tundras.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

dragonhead08 said:


> Your comparin a four banger to a 5.6L 8?


Dude, even the guys who are arguing with me think your truck is stupid.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

singletrack said:


> Dude, even the guys who are arguing with me think your truck is stupid.


C'mon you can do better then that.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

singletrack said:


> Dude, even the guys who are arguing with me think your truck is stupid.


Wrong.

To each his own, that is what you are missing here.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Hey SingleTrack - 
Looks like you like the same things that the others of us do - biking, camping, offroading. I did enjoy the BC trip write up you did. Maybe you are pissed that you don't have a truck? Looks like you have poured some $$$ into that Suby with a lift and bigger tires, new wheels, etc. Oh, add on the roof rack, and you still say that you don't have quite enough room for 2 people and 2 dogs for 2 weeks. but you put it to use....
and maybe, just maybe you COULD USE A LOCKER, this looks like a ***** to dig out of: (from your profile pics)

Oh, but then there was that blown strut on the BC trip... and the blown engine....ouch. How much $$$ are you gonna pour into that thing? Add on the cost of renting the UHaul and the gas to run it...

Seems that you are the one who loves to get lost in consumerism, maybe just to make drama? Some people love to make drama.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

CharacterZero said:


> Oh, but then there was that blown strut on the BC trip... and the blown engine....ouch. How much $$$ are you gonna pour into that thing?


Well seeing as the car only cost about $2K to build I think I'm still way ahead of you guys. The strut was free, and replacing the engine cost $150. I mean, it's got 240,000 miles. These things happen.

I made the rear rack, and the roof rack came off a junkyard car so I don't see how that's relevant.

I do have a locker, it's the welded variety ($15). I'm sure you wouldn't have even ventured into Hunter Canyon with your Nissan; you might have scratched it running such a well known rock-crawler route. Would you like me to list all the other serious jeep routes that no one else has ever done in a CAR?

I'm glad you like the BC write-up, I didn't think anyone would try to use the humorous captions against me, but I guess you're grasping for straws or something.

BTW, the biggest thing I ever towed with it was a Tacoma.  I was gonna avoid making this a Subie-power thread, but you brought it up.

*jonsocal*: Get a Forester


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

singletrack said:


> I'm sure you wouldn't have even ventured into Hunter Canyon with your Nissan


Wrong, I don't shy away from much. I do like to test my truck's limits when I get the chance, which is admittedly not often enough. And I do have some battle scars. Purely superficial though. That is the world that I choose to live in though, and one that keeps me well-funded enough to not have to have engine/mechanical failures when I do go play. Same approach you take with your bike. Like I said before, I don't think we are that different.



singletrack said:


> I'm glad you like the BC write-up, I didn't think anyone would try to use the humorous captions against me, but I guess you're grasping for straws or something.


I didn't use the "humorous" captions, just the story and pics. Thanks, the material writes itself, and I thank you for that. I did chuckle a bit at your misfortune, and I am sure karma will kick me for it.

Well, nice meeting you, time to get back to work!


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

CharacterZero said:


> Like I said before, I don't think we are that different.!


I'm sure. I just like to antagonize people with big trucks. 

To hell with work, it's time to play video games.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

singletrack said:


> I'm sure. I just like to antagonize people with big trucks.
> 
> To hell with work, it's time to play video games.


Er, I guess I was wrong. I like to make fun of 28yo men who play video games.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

singletrack said:


> I'm sure. I just like to antagonize people with big trucks.


We have something in common, I like to annoy people who have issues with big trucks.









FYI: My wheels are only 18's with a 33 tire (stock size) but I'm sure you knew that.


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## ickyickyptngzutboing (Mar 30, 2005)

Chapman,

I would love to have one of the hardtop Yotas as well... they'd be too much fun. However, the new Toyota's just don't have the legendary reliability of their previous models (I'm not saying they aren't reliable, but Toyota has lost their legendary reliability status ever since they've started growing like whoa). Like I said in my previous post, don't buy a Toyota based on the previous Toyotas--they're different animals, and I think as far as these compacts/mid-sizes go, there isn't a particular model that has a reliability advantage over the others, IMO.


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## bikedogs (Mar 18, 2007)

Man this thread is outta hand. Anyway, I just bought an 07 Frontier 2 weeks ago. It's a crew cab with a 6 ft bed. I've got a campertop on order for it. This truck is perfect for my family. We don't have any kids yet, but we do have 2 big dogs. This will be my second Nissan truck. The Frontier is bigger than the Tacoma and has the bigger engine as well. It doesn't get the best gas milage but good luck finding a 4-door truck that does. We travel alot to endurance races around East TN and NC and we're always camping. A truck is great for this type of stuff, load it up with bikes, camping gear, dogs, or whatever, it's all good. The campertop helps alot in bad weather. I would say camping takes it's toll on a nice car like yours. Good Luck.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

bikedogs said:


> Man this thread is outta hand.


Your are right about that, I shouldn't have pushed it so far.

Anyways, stop by clubfrontier and register so that you can get a feel for the little nuances of this truck!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

*Toyota myths*



ickyickyptngzutboing said:


> Chapman,
> 
> I would love to have one of the hardtop Yotas as well... they'd be too much fun. However, the new Toyota's just don't have the legendary reliability of their previous models (I'm not saying they aren't reliable, but Toyota has lost their legendary reliability status ever since they've started growing like whoa). Like I said in my previous post, don't buy a Toyota based on the previous Toyotas--they're different animals, and I think as far as these compacts/mid-sizes go, there isn't a particular model that has a reliability advantage over the others, IMO.


I have two '97 4Runners, and while I love them, in my experience their reliability is no better than the two 4x4 1/2 ton Chevy pickups I have owned, one of which now has over 250K miles, and the other which is approaching 200K.

A lot of it has to do with maintenance. In the past, the demographics of Toyota owners was pretty high compared to most American cars, and Toyota owners took better care of their vehicles. Now that Toyotas have become more mainstream, their perceived reliability has fallen.

I think it is just that they are now in the hands of people who change the oil once a year whether it needs it or not.....

Toyotas are ridiculously expensive to fix compared to American cars, too. Go price commonly replaced parts like brake pads, clutches, starters, alternators, etc., let alone the big ticket stuff. And the actual act of fixing them often seems to require some silly special tool and a bunch of painful contortions.

For the guy who was dissing the new Wranglers as being unreliable, you should take a look at the record of the FJ Cruiser. That thing has a ton of problems, including a very serious structural issue. I'd take a 2008 Rubicon over a 2008 FJ in a heartbeat.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

Damn after seeing those pics of his wagon I just feel bad for the guy now.


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

dragonhead08 said:


> Damn after seeing those pics of his wagon I just feel bad for the guy now.


:thumbsup:


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

jonsocal said:


> I currently own a 525i station wagon. It is a great vehicle and I enjoy driving it daily. Which is much more than I could say about my old '97 Trooper. The problem is that there is not enough room in the wagon to be useful for me on family trips. I have a roof rack for 3 bikes, but that leaves only the rear cargo area for all of our gear. (Coolers, sleeping bags, dry goods, tents, tools, gear, etc.) On the occasion that I do load up the wagon, it is completely loaded. I couldn't fit in a pencil into the cargo area and the back seat usually has two kids (my son and a friend) along with pillows, gadgets and stuff. I need a truck, but which truck? I have been searching for a truck with decent room, 4 doors, good fuel economy (at least 18mpg minimum), 4wd, and reliable for many years. Mind you I will probably keep the wagon since it is still a good car and is something I take my customers and prospects around in (+ it is paid off!). Now, is a Tacoma best option or should I look at the Frontier or the Colorado?? Mind you I will not be purchasing a brand new truck. Maybe a couple of months old to 2 years old. What truck is best and why in your opinion is it the best. I've read all kinds of stuff from the manufacturers, but would like real world answers from other mountainbikers. Thanks in advance for your ideas, comments and answers.


Have you considered a hitch and light-duty trailer. It's a good option for hauling extra stuff without the cost of another vehicle.


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## kimguroo (Dec 26, 2006)

maybe subaru baja?
AWD
20-28 mpg (I get about 25 mpg) non-turbo.


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## Syndrome (Sep 2, 2007)

Wow, alot of useless posts going on in here. I'd personally go with the Toyota if I was going to get any of the 3 mentioned trucks. My bro once had a 91 and I rolled it, you could hardly even tell that it was rolled, and it still drives to this day(Happened about 4 years back). I also think that the Toyota is the best looking one of the bunch.


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## EclipseRoadie (Oct 7, 2007)

Hey, I drive a new F-150 and I love it. However, if I just needed a bike hauler, the Toyota Taco would be it hands down. My buddy has one and it does great for what he needs. I wouldn't touch any of the compact offerings from any of the big three dealers, I just don't think they are good enough trucks compared with the Toyota. 
Oh and to that **** that was crying about our unbridaled consumerism earlier... I need my truck for work, but if I didn't I'd still drive it, especially because it pisses you off. 

-ER


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## Syndrome (Sep 2, 2007)

Anyone that drives a new F-150 thats white, needs kicked in the teeth, but thats because they look exactly like the pigs. The Toyota Tacoma is a much better truck, I'd way rather take one of those Jap traps that actually work over one of those over priced, over sized, over rated American pieces of crap.


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## bungyfish (Apr 24, 2004)

*05 Front*

So I am a dope and lost my original post, so here's an attempt to replace the original and keep my recent comments.

I have an 05 Frontier, CC 4x4. 2.5" lift, 33 BFG's, Flowmaster cold air intake, Gibson exhaust. The aftermarket stuff is coming around nicely.
I drive pretty agressive and usually average between 18-19mpg for mixed driving. Road trip from TX to CA w/ a camper top and 600lbs of stuff in the back and I was about 21 for the trip.
I drove an 05 Tacoma and an 04 Frontier before going w/ the 05 Front. Size and power were my main deciding factors. I have a buddy who has a slightly mod'd Tacoma and we have followed each other through some moderate trails w/ no problems. So I would say they perform fairly equally.
Personal preference.
Happy shopping.
mb

10-26 photo add.
Here is a pic following a quick ride today. 
It's dirty, and a bit damaged (wheel-well), and the cosmetic upgrades are on the way soon. Plan to do black bumpers, sliding rear window first. 
FYI - the BFG's are 265/75/16 which are actually 32.5" - if anyone is interested.
Good luck shopping.
mb


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## rzims (Sep 7, 2005)

I have an 05 F150 with a shell and the wife, kids, dogs and a whole load of stuff fit in pretty well.
I looked at all the offerings from toyota, nissan, ford and chevy and ended up with the ford for 1 reason - 0% for 60 months. Plus we buy about 10 fords a year so I was able to get it at fleet cost.
Biggest complaint is mileage - I get between 14-18 depending on driving but it's the 4x4 with the lower gearing


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

bungyfish said:


> I have an 05 Frontier, CC 4x4. 2.5" lift, 33 BFG's, Flowmaster cold air intake, Gibson exhaust. The aftermarket stuff is coming around nicely.
> I drive pretty agressive and usually average between 18-19mpg for mixed driving. Road trip from TX to CA w/ a camper top and 600lbs of stuff in the back and I was about 21 for the trip.
> I drove an 05 Tacoma and an 04 Frontier before going w/ the 05 Front. Size and power were my main deciding factors. I have a buddy who has a slightly mod'd Tacoma and we have followed each other through some moderate trails w/ no problems. So I would say they perform fairly equally.
> Personal preference.
> ...


You gotta drop in a pic of your rig if you're gonna give us that description!! :thumbsup:


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## hillking (Oct 15, 2007)

how about a f 150 
because toyota has the most recalls every year last year they had 2.2 million recalls.


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## Syndrome (Sep 2, 2007)

Yeah, just get a ford, that way when they know something is wrong, then you take it, instead of them doing a recall and them fixing their own mistakes.


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## Motorhead_AZ (Oct 1, 2007)

Everything comes at a price. If you want power, you have to sacrifice gas mileage, and vice versa.

Gas is not an issue for me, so I have a GMC 2500HD crew cab and I'm quite happy with it. It's got plenty of room and power for me to anything I want. I can have the A/C on full blast and be towing literally 10,000 lbs and the truck wouldn't skip a beat. It's a luxury you get with big V8 engines that the smaller motors don't have. On the downside, it gets about 13-14 MPG and less when towing. You really have to ask yourself what you will be using the truck for.

As far as brand goes, I prefer GM for all trucks and Toyota for small/midsize trucks. That's about it. I've been a car guy since birth, so I think I know enough to give educated suggestions.

You should also check out Chevy Colorado. They're great little trucks.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

Syndrome said:


> Anyone that drives a new F-150 thats white, needs kicked in the teeth, but thats because they look exactly like the pigs. The Toyota Tacoma is a much better truck, I'd way rather take one of those Jap traps that actually work over one of those over priced, over sized, over rated American pieces of crap.


totally uncalled for:nono:


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## hillking (Oct 15, 2007)

Syndrome said:


> Anyone that drives a new F-150 thats white, needs kicked in the teeth, but thats because they look exactly like the pigs. The Toyota Tacoma is a much better truck, I'd way rather take one of those Jap traps that actually work over one of those over priced, over sized, over rated American pieces of crap.


What are you talking about? Toyota has by far the most recalls every year. Notice that I said a Japanese company not an American.


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## dragonhead08 (Mar 19, 2007)

That makes sense as toyota also sells the most cars out of them.


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## mokancraig (Oct 20, 2007)

I've currently got a '03 F250 crew cab, short bed with the 6.0 diesel. It's overkill for hauling a couple of bikes, but I pull all sorts of different trailers. The only thing to be said about a diesel is converting it to run on vegetable oil and then spending very little on fuel at the pump. I haven't done that yet, but I'm trying to sell it to get a Toyota or Nissan at the moment...


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## Skywest (Feb 1, 2005)

*05 tacoma crew cab & 07 frontier long bed crew cab*

How about getting a SUV instead with car like qualities. Trucks are very bumpy, and groceries tend to fly off in the open bed. In the 07 frontiers case, the interior is plastic, the turning radius requires an 18 point u-turn  only has front airbags in the SE and really cramped inside. The Tacoma is a lot larger and a lot nicer with a lot more toys. But the cruise control had a mind of it's own when the freeway transitioned from flat to climbing ...lol. I wet my pants.

But safety wise, my Honda Pilot blows all of them away  I was able to get one for 7k off sticker price last year. It's a lot bigger, okays so it's a lot uglier as well.


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## Slyp Dawg (Oct 13, 2007)

dragonhead08 said:


> Posts like this make me happy to drive a fullsize four door truck that has an exhaust loud enough to wake the dead and a big ass thirsty V8 that pisses off people like you.


you owe me a new keyboard. I fried the old one drooling over your truck. it's awesome
for the topic at hand, why not look into the FJ Cruiser? possibly enough room inside to fit a bike or two, and if not there's always the option of a roof rack. just randomly throwing it out there, but possibly a recent-model-year Avalanche? that got good marks in the annual offroader shootout by Petersons 4Wheel Offroad. as for actual trucks (based on suspension the avalanche is more of a trar, as it has a 5 link rear end), if you don't mind not getting a current-model-year, try something like an '03 frontier, or a late '90s taco. I would suggest the JK Wrangler Unlimited 4 door but the 3.8l V6 that is in both gets piss poor mileage (13-14 mpg combined city/highway as per the annual offroader shootout by Petersons 4wheel offroad), even in the lighter/smaller 2 door version, so I'd imagine the 4 door gets even worse mileage.


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

*exact same boat as you*

I had a 3 series BMW that I was driving in places it was never meant to go. I loved cars, the way the drove, the mileage, the small garage footprint, and was reluctant to make the move to a truck. I looked into both the Tacoma and the Frontier as the only two obvious choices. I am biased towards the looks of the Frontier as I thought the taco had too much of a bulldog look. A little too muscular but that is just personal preference. 
What sold me. The Frontier had all metal in the tie downs compared to plastic that flexed noticeably when torquing down. Plastic bedliner in taco compared to spray in for Frontier. I preferred Frontier interior as well. Frontier had more power and got better mileage and is only Low Emission Vehicle in its class. I get 20 mpg city and have got as good as 23 on hwy, 21+ at freeway speeds of around 85. 
A riding buddy of mine got the TRD sport Tacoma and after doing some trips in it as well it has only gone to reassure me I made the right purchase. There is a little more back seat room in taco and until this year, it was the only one with the longer bed option but it seems to me that toyota isn't as good at the refinement they were so long famous for. 
Both trucks have tons of power and drive well. I give the nod to Frontier as far as road handling and to the taco as far as parking lot, city agility. 
What it boils down to is that you can't go wrong with either but the the reasons I stated, I went with Frontier and am still stoked on the decision.


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## outofthesaddle (May 5, 2006)

*Tacoma*

My vote is for the Tacoma - I looked at both the Tacoma and Frontier last month and bought the Tacoma. 20 mpg and very good resale.


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

GoFaster2 said:


> My car sits to low for hitch mounted rack and they dont make a trunk mounted one and the only roof one justs clamps to the door frame. So I really dont have a option for mounting a rack to my car. Now I realize why trucks are so popular.


no it doesnt .... i have a 96 acura integra coupe thats lowered 2" with a hitch mount rack and sometimes it hits if i dont go over speed bumps and dips at an angle, but other than that i cant see ANY car being too low for a hitch mount rack, especially hondas which remain fairly high in the back even when lowered. Besides ... usually my big ass 4" muffler will hit before the rack does 

Oh and ive even towed a 12' aluminum fishing boat with it ... while lowered .... 1200 miles round trip with 3 people in the car and a bunch of gear in the boat

Singletrack makes some good points .... i have thought personally about getting a compact truck (it would be a 2wd 4cyl stick shift with an xcab) but am unwilling to give up the 26mpg my 4cyl car gets with the bike on it at freeway speeds, and the 30+ mpg it gets without the bike.



singletrack said:


> The original 4Runner is a total ripper, as were Taco's up until 2004. Before they became re-badged Tundras.


had to comment on this ... a friend of mine bought a 06 prerunner crew and it got 20 mpg hwy with the v6 and cost 30k ... this was while chevy was doing "employee pricing for everyone" ... another friend of mine went with the silverado crew 2wd and got it for 23k ... and it got 19mpg hwy with v8 performance and a full size truck.

So far the only good point ive seen made about newer toyotas is resale, and thats gonna go out the window once everyone realises that they suck

oh and i loved your bc writeup even though i got kicked out of the school library for thinking what a old school whip that thing will never make it to canada and back and sure enough the pic with the uhaul pops up



mopartodd said:


> Have you considered a hitch and light-duty trailer. It's a good option for hauling extra stuff without the cost of another vehicle.


was also going to suggest this ... hitch with light duty trailer probably still gets better mileage than a truck would .... but how good could the gas mileage possibly be on a 5 series beamer?



Skywest said:


> Trucks are very bumpy, and groceries tend to fly off in the open bed. In the 07 frontiers case, the interior is plastic, the turning radius requires an 18 point u-turn  only has front airbags in the SE


I am so sick of airbags and safety being factored in when people buy cars ... dont drive like a dumbass and you wont get into accidents ... your fault or not ... if it were up to me ALL airbags would still be optional (and they were $1200 when they were still an option) ... instead of standard.


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## Work (Oct 14, 2007)

hahaha, i love when a perfectly good thread gets turned into a debacle when someone throws useless banter at it. who cares.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

Melt said:


> i have a 96 acura integra coupe thats lowered 2" with a hitch mount rack and my big ass 4" muffler will hit before the rack does
> 
> Oh and ive even towed a 12' aluminum fishing boat with it ... while lowered .... 1200 miles round trip with 3 people in the car and a bunch of gear in the boat
> 
> ...


What are you, 16?


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

23 actually .... and dont knock singlespeeds youre just jealous cause you probably suck on one.


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## EggsnBacon (Mar 12, 2007)

I never have, nor ever will, ride a godforbidden singlespeed.


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## payedinsingles (Oct 28, 2006)

i love my frontier.... i use the rocky mounts clutch sd in the utilitrack and it works great!!!! uses regular unleaded too unlike the taco


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