# No hands, Flow Trails, Riding your age ....



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

The three are not connected. Just some random thought from someone long past the age required or suggested to be posting on this specific forum.

I learned to ride my road bike hands free this summer. I was always impressed by those racers who raced across a finish line throwing their hands up in victory or who could reach behind themselves for a full meal without crashing. 

Now I can too. I can do this while pedaling and can do it on a bumpy road and can even lean into turns no handed. I'm quite pleased that I can do this.

Flow trails were something I though I rode until I rode a flow trail built to IMBA specs last week and realized all I had been riding were just trails. All the rocks and off camber roots don't belong on a "real" flow trail.

Anyway, my first experience was a blast and, for the first time in memory, I bottomed out my rear suspension - all 125mm of it. The bumps and berms really were fun to ride for a change but it will be back to the usual rocks, roots and drops Tuesday unless the rain says I won't be.

Riding your age? The older you get, the more difficult it becomes. I've never done it, but, I did ride 85 miles last weekend when you add Saturday and Sunday together. 

That would be 85 miles on my road bike. Two days on my mountain bike might add up to 30 miles, be more tiring and more fun. However, because of Covid 19, I ride my mountain bike weekdays when the local trails are fairly empty and ride at a local military base on weekends when I have the roads to myself and leave the parks to the crowds.

Nothing earth shattering here. Just some musings or, as I used to call them, "Random Ramblings."


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

careful riding with no hands. been riding street bikes my whole life, had many offs over 60mph. Worst road rash I have ever had was from a road bike riding no hands. A root had raised the pavement which kicked my front tire and I went over bars at 10mph. 

Had two large oval circles on my back around shoulder blades 8 X 10 inches took a very long time to heal, and had scars for years. Had to take showers just to get shirt unstuck after bandages came off.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Outhouse said:


> careful riding with no hands. been riding street bikes my whole life, had many offs over 60mph. Worst road rash I have ever had was from a road bike riding no hands. A root had raised the pavement which kicked my front tire and I went over bars at 10mph.
> 
> Had two large oval circles on my back around shoulder blades 8 X 10 inches took a very long time to heal, and had scars for years. Had to take showers just to get shirt unstuck after bandages came off.


Dudes living the dream.....
and while l understand the warning, let him enjoy his dream without the lecture.

To OP
I raise my fist to you (Fantastic Mr Fox)


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

cant believe its been 7 yrs, the scars l see everyday

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=23347&share_type=t&link_source=app


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

cmg said:


> let him enjoy his dream without the lecture.


No lecture. Just friendly advise, some caution is always a good thing


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Outhouse said:


> careful riding with no hands. been riding street bikes my whole life, had many offs over 60mph. Worst road rash I have ever had was from a road bike riding no hands.


You are a demon. I've never done 60 but I have hit 50mph on many occasions and it's fairly terrifying, I don't even want to think about going down at that speed. The fact that you've not only reached 60mph 
multiple times but have also gone down while doing it many times is astounding :eekster:

No hands? I say yes!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Highest I've ever been able to muster is ~50mph, since having something that records speed anyway. I might have gone faster back in the day. Only crashes over 60mph were on motos, wearing way more than lycra and a styrofoam helmet. 

Steeper HTA and less trail (like a road bike) makes hands off riding easier. Long and slack is too floppy unless going pretty fast.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

man, I used to ride BMX no handed, all day, everywhere in the 70's and 80's...

now, at 51, I hate taking one hand off the bars to grab my hose from my hydro pack...granted, it is on dirt trails while dodging objects etc...

but I remember when riding no hands was just part of it...same with hucking jumps, which I am just recently getting used to doing again. When I was young, if there was a lip, or ledge or driveway apron, I was jumping it.

i think "riding your age" is subjective. Most of my friends ride like "80 year olds"... they tell me I am "too old" to do what I do. I fear the day that I feel "too old" to do the things I enjoy doing. They say I am "too old" to play in a thrash metal band; I am "too old" to play hockey. 

I have always felt that you are only as old as your brain lets you be...

now, having said that, there is also the aspect of "wisdom" that we all gain. Having gained more wisdom, I don't try to clear 10' gaps, or get air off of 10' half pipes...yet. I now have to think of how much the cost of healing is. And where the limit of my ability will take me. 

In many ways, I am more daring now in some ways that I am older, but the dares are more calculated, and not as spontaneous...and maybe that is the big difference..."ride your age" might mean "be less spontaneous" in some ways...

just thinking out loud as well.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I like riding no handed when I can, but it's interesting how different bikes have different no-hand-ability for me. Both my road and mountain bike are a bit twitchy no handed. I can ride them straight and pedal along okay, but usually have to grab the bars if I hit any surface irregularity or need to turn. My flat bar gravel bike (an old Diamondback Ascent rigid mountain bike with 38mm road tires), though, I can ride no handed for days - turns, bumpy terrain, whatever.

So I don't think it's a head angle, tire size or wheelbase issue since my Diamondback is between my road and MTB in all these areas. So why is it so much easier to ride no handed?


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> You are a demon. I've never done 60 but I have hit 50mph on many occasions and it's fairly terrifying,


Sorry street bikes meaning street motorcycles. Been on 2 wheels my whole life. Demon must mean the broken hip, broken wrist, crushed vertebrae 

I have only hit 50-60 on a bike once or twice and that was back in the day of no GPS to tell you what you had done


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

wayold said:


> I like riding no handed when I can, but it's interesting how different bikes have different no-hand-ability for me. Both my road and mountain bike are a bit twitchy no handed. I can ride them straight and pedal along okay, but usually have to grab the bars if I hit any surface irregularity or need to turn. My flat bar gravel bike (an old Diamondback Ascent rigid mountain bike with 38mm road tires), though, I can ride no handed for days - turns, bumpy terrain, whatever.
> 
> So I don't think it's a head angle, tire size or wheelbase issue since my Diamondback is between my road and MTB in all these areas. So why is it so much easier to ride no handed?


for me it is a weight distribution thing. I remember sitting with my weight further back on the seat when riding no handed on BMX....like I was leaning back


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Riding your age is not subjective*

Riding your age means that on or about your birthday, you ride one mile for every year. I.E. when I turn 72, I should ride 72 miles.

No matter what my age, I find I get totally bored at 50 miles which is as far as I have ever gone on a road or mountain bike.

Acting your age is a whole different thing.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> I learned to ride my road bike hands free this summer. I was always impressed by those racers who raced across a finish line throwing their hands up in victory or who could reach behind themselves for a full meal without crashing.
> 
> Now I can too. I can do this while pedaling and can do it on a bumpy road and can even lean into turns no handed. I'm quite pleased that I can do this.


I'm curious as to your riding history. In another post you stated you just learned that standing uphills can be beneficial and now you just learned to ride no-handed. Both of those techniques -- for me and everyone I know -- were things we did as kids riding around on our single speed beater bikes. I don't think I know anyone -- in the flesh or virtually -- who wouldn't being doing both of those things every time they got on a bike!



Rev Bubba said:


> Flow trails were something I though I rode until I rode a flow trail built to IMBA specs last week and realized all I had been riding were just trails. All the rocks and off camber roots don't belong on a "real" flow trail.
> 
> Anyway, my first experience was a blast and, for the first time in memory, I bottomed out my rear suspension - all 125mm of it. The bumps and berms really were fun to ride for a change but it will be back to the usual rocks, roots and drops Tuesday unless the rain says I won't be.


I just got back from a jaunt to southwest Colorado and had the opportunity to ride Boggy Draw, just out of Dolores, CO. Best flow experience in my entire life -- miles of trail swooping through towering Ponderosa Pine forests. If I knew I had only one more bike ride left in me, that's where I'd want to spend it...



Rev Bubba said:


> Riding your age? The older you get, the more difficult it becomes. I've never done it, but, I did ride 85 miles last weekend when you add Saturday and Sunday together.


I still throw off a century ride (100 miles) every year on mixed terrain -- last Sunday was the day and 64 of the 107 miles was gravel and USFS double track roads. I'm pretty determined to ride well better than my age (60) for as long as I can. Despite being in pretty good shape at the moment, this year was the first year in the last 40 where I took off down the road with a bit of trepidation about completing the ride. Turned out to be for naught, but I'm interested in seeing if this is a trend. I almost always get my age on legitimate mtb trails too, but my usual metric century mtb race was canceled this year and I'm not thinking I'm motivated enough to do it on my own.


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

Musing out loud here too. I have never been much of a road rider outside of commuting but a couple of years ago a riding buddy and I decided we wanted some additional riding goals and picked the road goal of riding from our neighborhood to the top of Mount Evans (Colorado). It's about 100 miles round trip with close to 10,000 feel of elevation gain. In my much younger days I would have just tried to do it on my first attempt. Now at 58 (riding buddy 45 - less excuse for him!) I have taken a much different approach and for the last couple of months have been building the distance (on the route to the summit) every other weekend. We are getting closer having hit 82 miles and 8,500 feet two weeks ago but we also have small setbacks (we only did 70 miles and 6,500 ft yesterday). What I have really enjoyed about my old man approach is how much I have learned along the way particularly about clothes, water and food. I have also seen the fitness gains benefit my mountain biking and am 'powering' up sections with more success than before. I don't feel that I would have had the same benefits in my more aggressive younger days.

Additional musings: I am way more dedicated to improving techniques now than I ever was before. I suspect this is mostly because I am more risk averse and want to limit damage by applying correct techniques to my riding. It’s also because I get great satisfaction from making sections/moves that I haven’t made before and developing better skills for low speed drops and maneuvering through tech challenges.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Worse crash I ever had was trying to adjust a zipper while riding at a lift served downhill park, weaved off the access road and hit a drain pipe, at speed, flipped numerous times, smashed my knee so bad that it still hurts years later.

Stoopid stuff causes injuries that are avoidable.

I am very good at injuring myself, no need to add more injuries with limited benefits.

I don't need to ride without hands, did that plenty as a child ... when I didn't know any better


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

Rev Bubba said:


> Riding your age means that on or about your birthday, you ride one mile for every year. I.E. when I turn 72, I should ride 72 miles.
> 
> No matter what my age, I find I get totally bored at 50 miles which is as far as I have ever gone on a road or mountain bike.
> 
> Acting your age is a whole different thing.


How about triple my age? did 177 miles of gravel a couple of weekends ago, started at midnight on a Saturday night, ended around noon on Sunday. Those last few miles were painful.  I don't plan on acting my age ever.


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## myxo (Jul 28, 2020)

Once I, a gray-haired pepper, was driving and saw young girls. I decided to show them a class of driving without hands. I stretched them out as if to show that I had caught a long fish. And then from the car behind yell: "Hey, fool, what are you doing?" Well, just a balm for the soul, so nicely said!


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Riding History?*

I never had a tricycle or used training wheels. I first remember riding a two wheeler (likely a Schwinn with 24" wheels) when I was 4 years old. I guess my father held me up to help me learn.

We lived in Jersey City at the time and I used to ride in the middle of the street even at four. This was back in 1953 when you had as much chance of being run over by the rag man's horse or the vegetable man's cart as a car and it was a side street.

By six we moved to the country. Except for one kid with an "English" - basically a flat bar road bike, everyone else had your typical mid-fifties single speed cruiser with coaster brakes. One thing we did not have were paved roads.

As the new kid on the block, I did what every new kid did. I followed the other kids. Riding then was either on bumpy dirt roads or, more often, through the woods on animal trails. Riding in the woods at six on a cruiser did not lend itself to riding no handed so no one did. We used our bikes to get to other neighborhoods on these trails and more likely then not, were carrying baseball equipment too.

So that's my story. California and Colorado may have invented mountain bike marketing but us snotty little kids in northwest Jersey were riding trails long before anyone invented the term "mountain biking." By the time I was 10, I had a three speed Schwinn with rim brakes and fatter tires.

As for standing and pedaling, I suppose I did back then. We certainly had hills that needed climbing.

I moved on to road bikes in college, rode them a lot afterwards but, by then, I was old enough to not require impressing anyone by riding with no hands and didn't.

Regardless of timing and reasoning, I waited until I was 71 to learn to ride with no hands and because I ride solo, I'm still not impressing anyone.

It was way more impressive in the late 60's to be a surfer with a guitar and a convertible. Obviously, gasoline and girls got in the way of bikes and I had the afore mentioned required items.

I took up what I call modern mountain biking sometime in the late 80's and have been doing it ever since.

Does that answer your questions? It's all I've got to say about the subject other then in the 90's, I was tying to figure out how to get away with carrying a mountain bike on an M-60 tank. I never did figure it out.


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