# Uphill riders got what?



## bullit44777 (May 30, 2006)

rant 1
Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please. 

rant 2
Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding up it are making it impossible to have any fun riding down it, once again I am more than happy to ride up the FR to gain access, so that other riders can get their DH on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away....


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## w00t! (Apr 28, 2008)

retart


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## Spartacus Rex (Dec 18, 2006)

On rant 1... realistically it is a judgement call. I know that when I am climbing I cant look far enough up the trail to dismount in time to be surprised by downhillers. It all really comes down to who sees who first and what kind of terrain it is. There is nothing worse than trying to crawl up a step up and trying to dismount only to stay clipped in and falling backwards. If, on the other hand, the terrain is smooth I will dismount and get out of the way.

Rant 2... yeah...seriously. if there is FR access you would think the uphillers would chose that and then bomb back down the ST. Go figure.


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

1) It is alot harder to get started again going uphill; in many cases it might not be possible to start again without walking to the next flat section.

2) Many riders (myself included) _enjoy_ riding uphill on single track. Fire roads are dull.

As someone who likes riding uphill, I wouldn't ask you to ride down on the FR so I could ride up the ST unimpeded. It's asinine to expect everyone to conform to your style of riding. If the trails are too crowed for you, go at a different time of day, or go somewhere less popular. Otherwise learn to share the ST with other users.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

As some one who likes to ride UP and DOWN, it's a hell of a lot more fun riding up a trail than grinding my way up some boring ass fire road. There a lot of places where there is no "fire road" option, and you have to ride up trail to get to the goods anyhow. At least, that has been true nearly every place I've ever ridden. 

Oh yeah: you're an idiot.

edited for: oops.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

Frs already said what I was going to say. it is allot harder to get started again when going up hill, especially on a single track, than it is to get going again on a the DH. Granted, as a Clydesdale, I much rather be going down than up; but I have to be aware of riders coming up. It's just good Kharma.


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

OK so what if the UH guy doesn't call out "rider up" I had a guy yesterday nearly get creamed by me cause he was wearing an ipod and I called out "rider" heard nothing and started down when around the bend come this other guys. And he was pissed at me for not letting him by. Mind you this section of the trail has two drops the first climb is completely blind.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

It's because it's a lot easier on your spine, coming down singletrack and yeilding to uphill traffic than getting knocked off your bike into a tree at speed by a pissed off goater. I've done it before, and I'll do it again.


For your sake, may our paths never cross.


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 1
> Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
> I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please.
> 
> ...


I sort of agree with rant 1, but it's that way because uphill riders are slower. Downhill riders are going faster nearly 100% of the time, so the rider going downhill being on the side and being brushed by a climber is nothing compared to being knocked down by the downhill rider.

Rant 2 is void because FR are boring.


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## coffeegeek2112 (Mar 2, 2007)

I must agree with woot and scrub.


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

hanjin said:


> OK so what if the UH guy doesn't call out "rider up" I had a guy yesterday nearly get creamed by me cause he was wearing an ipod and I called out "rider" heard nothing and started down when around the bend come this other guys. And he was pissed at me for not letting him by. Mind you this section of the trail has two drops the first climb is completely blind.


You called out and made your best effort to alert other riders on the trail, dumb ass can't hear cause he has his Ipod on, his problem not yours. You did the right thing, he is in the wrong.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

If you don't like the rules go to the land management meetings and lobby to get one way signs put on the trails. 

In the mean time your just being selfish, someone is ruining your fun so the rules should be changed!!! The rules are in place for the reasons mentioned in the other posts. 

Besides I have just as much fun climbing


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

rant 1, deal with it.. use common sense, yielding to a uphiller is not set in stone. 

rant 2, some people will always ride trails the wrong way, they live in their own little world, and could careless about busting the natural trail flow. That being said, there's a lot of good ST climbs out there, some of us find interest in cleaning these types of uphills, and may give them a go now and then.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

rant 2 is dumb and fire roads suck .. we have to many of them from people not stoping and making the trail just like a fire road.. so all and all rant 2 sucks


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## lubes17319 (Dec 19, 2005)

scrublover said:


> Oh yeah: you're and idiot.


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## MattCharettePhotography (Aug 14, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> It's because it's a lot easier on your spine, coming down singletrack and yeilding to uphill traffic than getting knocked off your bike into a tree at speed by a pissed off goater. I've done it before, and I'll do it again.
> 
> For your sake, may our paths never cross.


I have also lowered a shoulder to a downhiller bombing down a narrow ST that I was goating up, would not have done it had he at least warned me he was coming, I could not see over the crest of the hill and next thing I knew he was coming right at me blindly, expecting him to stop or at least slow, I held my ground and continued peddling, he did neither, so pulled over as much as I could, and leaned his direction some to keep from getting the brunt of the collision, knocked us both down, but him going much faster got the most of it, he swore at "the stupid climber" and clamored back onto his bike rather than coming at me like I expected.

I ALWAYS yield to the UH, no sense in not yielding to them, next time you see them on the trail and they are coming down, you are going up, you will appreciate it when they stop for you and bid you good day on your way past them. Etiquette is something that you should always practice on the trail, not only is it the polite thing to do, but it is generally the safest thing to do. had I not been paying attention he would have slammed head on into me, likely damaging both of our bikes, and hurting both of us... so your "me first" attitude only goes so far, if everyone thought the same way as you, the trails would be a much more dangerous place.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

this "cant start going back uphill" stuff is crap. 

its a safety thing. if you told downhill riders they have the right of way, they'd be killing people when they fly downhill thinking they have the right to blow people off the trail. saying uphill riders have the right of way means downhill riders must use caution and control their speed. the faster/more dangerous rider (going downhill) is responsible for keeping both directions out of high speed accidents.


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## bullit44777 (May 30, 2006)

wow you completely don't get it. I was asking if thats the rule, how come so many people DON'T abide by it? The same people who say uphill rider has right of way, will not stop at all on the downhill, thats what I said. I questioned why there is that rule, somebody mentioned being clipped, thats a good point! I never said what I think of the rule, or what I do on the downhill.
As far as being selfish, hey everybody does what they like, its fun, no problems there, up, down, whatever, I was just talking about one trail in particular, I think FR are boring too, but I figure on this particular trail I'm keeping it opened up so people can have fun riding down it, how does that make me selfish? I thought for some reason the whole point of getting to the top is to have fun on the way down, but I'm an idiot....
Finally some guy riding downhill yells out and if the uphill guy is wearing earphones and doesn't hear its his fault, what?



space said:


> If you don't like the rules go to the land management meetings and lobby to get one way signs put on the trails.
> 
> In the mean time your just being selfish, someone is ruining your fun so the rules should be changed!!! The rules are in place for the reasons mentioned in the other posts.
> 
> Besides I have just as much fun climbing


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## Garlock (Jul 9, 2008)

w00t! said:


> retart


lol at irony

"Backpain" came to my mind after reading the title. Followed by "balls".


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## MattCharettePhotography (Aug 14, 2008)

bullit44777 said:


> Finally some guy riding downhill yells out and if the uphill guy is wearing earphones and doesn't hear its his fault, what?


Wearing earphones on the trail especially on single track is reckless, a rider should always be audibly alert of his surroundings, again with proper ettiquette, "Rider up" "Rider Down" "passing left" and other general warnings cannot be heard well with earphones in, I do not mind people listening to music while riding, keep one earphone in your right ear only(people generally pass on the left and it is more common to have to hear out of your left obviously)... then you can hear out of your left, you are still alert of your surroundings, and noone gets hurt. But if he is riding about with both phones in, and his music cranked up, he cannot hear a damn thing, and is then just in his own little world, and a danger to others on the trail. So yes, his fault.


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## bullit44777 (May 30, 2006)

Once again you misunderstand, I absolutely agree about the headphone issue, people should be aware of their environment on multi use trails, but anyway lots of riders like to wear them, I don't think yelling while bombing down the trail is cool at all, but everything I say is disagreed with so somebody just post the dead horse picture and kill the thread...



MattCharettePhotography said:


> Wearing earphones on the trail especially on single track is reckless, a ride should always be audibly alert of his surroundings, again with proper ettiquette, "Rider up" "Rider Down" "passing left" and other general warnings cannot be heard well with earphones in, I do not mind people listening to music while riding, keep one earphone in your right ear only(people generally pass on the left and it is more common to have to hear out of your left obviously)... then you can hear out of your left, you are still alert of your surroundings, and noone gets hurt. But if he is riding about with both phones in, and his music cranked up, he cannot hear a damn thing, and is then just in his own little world, and a danger to others on the trail. So yes, his fault.


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## MattCharettePhotography (Aug 14, 2008)

haha, was not arguing as much as explaining it out loud. I agree about the yelling, I do it only when the downhill is blind to me to ensure noone is below me as I descend.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

bullit44777 said:


> wow you completely don't get it. I was asking if thats the rule, how come so many people DON'T abide by it? The same people who say uphill rider has right of way, will not stop at all on the downhill, thats what I said. I questioned why there is that rule, somebody mentioned being clipped, thats a good point! I never said what I think of the rule, or what I do on the downhill.
> As far as being selfish, hey everybody does what they like, its fun, no problems there, up, down, whatever, I was just talking about one trail in particular, I think FR are boring too, but I figure on this particular trail I'm keeping it opened up so people can have fun riding down it, how does that make me selfish? I thought for some reason the whole point of getting to the top is to have fun on the way down, but I'm an idiot....
> Finally some guy riding downhill yells out and if the uphill guy is wearing earphones and doesn't hear its his fault, what?


Some people don't know the rules or choose to ignore them. I personally yield to everyone when I'm riding solo. When I'm riding in a group I follow the rules and encourage the group I'm riding with too.

For many people the whole point of getting to the top is the accomplishment of cleaning the climb. I've ridden with a guy who hates to downhill, he sees it as the pain he has to suffer to get to the next climb. Personally I'm more in the middle, I like a tough climb as much as a fast downhill.

Finally, if someone is riding with headphones they are an idiot and always at fault for anything that happens to them or any other trail users around them.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

tomsmoto said:


> this "cant start going back uphill" stuff is crap.
> 
> its a safety thing. if you told downhill riders they have the right of way, they'd be killing people when they fly downhill thinking they have the right to blow people off the trail. saying uphill riders have the right of way means downhill riders must use caution and control their speed. the faster/more dangerous rider (going downhill) is responsible for keeping both directions out of high speed accidents.


Ummm....the "can't start going back uphill" is not crap. While I agree the rest of your statement is logical and quiet possibly true, I can't agree with your first statement.

On a lose steep climb if you stop your done. Either your walking to the top or walking to the bottom and starting over. Same goes for many technical climbs, if you don't keep your momentum your not getting up it.


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 1
> Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
> I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please.
> 
> ...


Childish idiot. There is no right of way just because someone wants to get their 'downhill on'. If you want to bomb downhills go ride one way trails designated as such, otherwise you should always ride with the expectation that the trail ahead is not clear.

If a trail is two way, then it's two way, up and down and just because you and the rest of kindergarten consider it a one way downhill trail, doesn't change the fact that some riders will ride up it. 
:madmax: :madmax: :madmax: :madmax:

(flame done)


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## nm_gunslinger (Jul 28, 2008)

tomsmoto said:


> this "cant start going back uphill" stuff is crap.
> 
> its a safety thing. if you told downhill riders they have the right of way, they'd be killing people when they fly downhill thinking they have the right to blow people off the trail. saying uphill riders have the right of way means downhill riders must use caution and control their speed. the faster/more dangerous rider (going downhill) is responsible for keeping both directions out of high speed accidents.


Let's face it, the uphill rider is in more control and the downhill rider can get started again easily. I've also been hit and bumped by out of control dh's. Once while I was taking a break not even on the trail:nono: It's the nature of the beast, you can only be in so much control on the dh.

Furthermore, while I have the skills to try and ride to the side and in most cases let the dh'er go by without much loss of momentum, many riders don't and scareing them off the trail or seriously hurting them is BS. It's also not promoting the sport and has gotten us kicked off trails. Some places require even require bells...

Get with the program, I can often go MUCH faster on single track than I do, but slow dh'ers, rec riders, and hikers get in my way:thumbsup: Sarcasticly said, but hopefully you get the point. Should these folks all have to know I'm coming and get out of my way? Not a chance, I need to take control and ride in a safe matter.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

tomsmoto said:


> this "cant start going back uphill" stuff is crap.


Come ride with me at Henry Coe County Park in California. I've got some hills that are impossible to start on if you stop while climbing them.

On another note, I love going down as much as I love going up. I don't really care if either me (the climber) or the downhiller stop, just as long as they slow down & pass me safely. If its a wide open hill that I'm climbing with lots of visibility, there is a good chance I'll just pull off to the side & let the downhill person go by. Can't we all just get along!!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

This topic ALWAYS has a good ending.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

1. If I'm climbing and there's a place that's convenient and out of the way to grab a tree or dab a foot, I'll ususally do so anyway. But I also hold the door for old ladies, even if they're 20 seconds away. That probably doesn't make sense to you either.

2. If I'm downhilling, and someone is on their bike successfully riding that very same trail uphill, then it's not a trail to be bombing. It's a trail to ride as aggressively as you can while maintaining visibility for goaters. As challenging as you think your DH may be, riding up a superwickedbadgnargnarhunkahunkaburninlove is harder than riding down it, every time. If someone is doing it, you stop out of respect for them. If you have no respect for anyone but yourself, take comfort in knowing that will be remedied in due time.

3. Riding with headphones is like playing in the street blindfolded. No sympathy at all.

4. Why do people have to ride down ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding down it are making it impossible to have any fun riding up it, once again I am more than happy to ride down the FR, it's faster anyway, so that other riders can get their XC on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away...

Ok, nice run-on sentence.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

#1: The rule is because of safety. If the downhill rider had right of away then it be up to the uphill rider to dodge. Fortunately most people are pretty good. I don't believe I have ever had problems with riders coming up or coming down a trail.

#2: Technical single track climbs are a blast. If you have that rare combination of skill and fitness you can have just about as much fun going up a trail as going down it. If you are sick and tired of people going up your down train meet up with your land manager and build a wicked single track up hill to form a loop.


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## SoMo Addict (Jul 26, 2008)

1. I usually step aside if I'm going up because usually I can use the rest and I too like to let people "get their DH on". But if I'm heading up a techincal climb where I can't regain momentum I expect the person going DH to stop and wait for me to ride up, and they usually do.

2. Mountain biking is not all about downhill.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

SoMo Addict said:


> 1. I usually step aside if I'm going up because usually I can use the rest and I too like to let people "get their DH on". But if I'm heading up a techincal climb where I can't regain momentum I expect the person going DH to stop and wait for me to ride up, and they usually do.
> .


-My sentiments exactly....and I find that in most all cases (where I ride) that is the way it goes. However, most often I don't feel the need to stop when climbing as either the trail is wide enough for both of us or the guys coming d/h usually see me coming and slow down/move aside/stop/whatever.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Didn't we just have this exact thread.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

If an area lacks downhill specific trails, it is in the best interest of ALL of the areas mountain bike community to organize and advocate for downhill specific trails. By advocating and working with land managers, you address the situation, and work towards a solution that benefits ALL multi-use trail users.

If I see a rider coming downhill, in control of his bike, not bombing, but in control, on a multi-use trail, I will sometimes, if possible, wave him through. For those of you that don't mind stepping aside when a rider is bombing down a multi-use trail, you are contributing to a possible trail user conflict down the trail. I totally understand your rational, thinking when I come back down hopefully someone will return the favor, or for whatever reason. But by you stepping aside and waving this rider by, going balls out on a multi-use trail, you are as much of the problem as the rider.

If people take the time to address problems, most of the time, these problems can be dealt with. Yes it takes time, work, and sometimes rejection, but again, if you choose not to make a situation better, you have chosen to make a bad situation worse.


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## NA1NSXR (May 8, 2008)

HeY GuYZ LoOk at Me I am EXTREEEEEMEEEEEEEE I liKE to BomB dOWN HillZZZZZ sO allU GOAterZ GeT oUT tHA WAY!!!!! mE hAvinG -FUN- iz MoRe ImpOrtanT thAn EvErYoNe ELsEE!!!!!!!!!

on a more serious note I hate the most when I yield and have to dismount going uphill that I am already struggling up and then I find out after the fact that there is no place for me to get back on my bike within a hundred feet forwards or backwards.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Somebody doesn't get it*



bullit44777 said:


> rant 1
> Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
> I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please.
> 
> ...


Rant 1:

Uh, yeah! Much harder to clean an uphill than a down. Restart a climb so you don't have to give way going down?!? Are you F'ing kidding me?

Rant 2:

Its more fun to ride up singletrack, just like its to ride down. Myself, I love a nice techy ST ascent. Do that on your 8 incher shuttle monkey... get a real workout.

If you wanna get your DH on, get a spotter and some radios. Maybe take turns having your mom drive you to the top of the hill.

DHer, meet elbow and shoulder. Learn some control and manners.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Did you maybe ever though, that some of us actually like to ride uphill too? Not on any kind of roads or even with shuttle or ski lift but with bike on ST. But I guess ST are suppose to be reserved for so called freeriders.


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## mtb 4ever (Jun 14, 2008)

All one way loops were I live. When I go to WV on vacation, if there is a fire road up, I take it and then ride singletrack down, However, this is only because I would have a heart attack if I road up any trails in Kanawha State Forest.:yesnod: 

No head phones in the woods for me. I like the silence.:headphones:


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## Wideside66 (Apr 4, 2007)

Jorgemonkey


> Come ride with me at Henry Coe County Park in California. I've got some hills that are impossible to start on if you stop while climbing them.


Exactly what I was thinking!!

I would rather climb a rock rooty steep single track anyday... than to climb an easy fire road.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Yeah, anyone who wants to argue the 'harder to start uphill' point, I will be glad to take you to some spots around Vegas that are just brutal to get started on once you lose momentum.


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## Evil Patrick (Sep 13, 2004)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 2
> Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding up it are making it impossible to have any fun riding down it, once again I am more than happy to ride up the FR to gain access, so that other riders can get their DH on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away....


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## verve825 (Mar 16, 2005)

*Well, actually...*

In my experience, the uphill rider has more fitness, endurance, tact, technical prowess and awareness (not to mentions a greater sense of social grace and decency)... And, at the end of the day (not too far far from now, judging by the recent performance of the DH crew), the uphill rider will be the only rider allowed on many trails.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I figured that this was a troll post from the first rant.

Then when I read rant 2, I was more than convinced.


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## TLL (Apr 28, 2008)

bullit44777 said:


> wow you completely don't get it. I was asking if thats the rule, how come so many people DON'T abide by it?


Because it is human nature to hold others to a higher standard and make excuses for ourselves? People typically expect others to follow the rules, but cut themselves slack. It is the way of all humanity. That you are surprised by it tells me you might not deal with a lot of people on a regular basis. Nothing about the way people behave should ever surprise us.

And how would you actually know that the "same people who say uphill rider has right of way, will not stop at all on the downhill?" Are you omniscient?


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

My favorite rule that is never followed, and it's not our fault, is that hiker's have the right of way. I cannot think of one time where I've come to a hiker or group of hikers and stopped to let them pass. They ALWAYS step aside long before I reach them. Horses, however, I always stop unless the owner says that it's ok.


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## jake7 (Jul 25, 2006)

Frs1661 said:


> 2) Many riders (myself included) _enjoy_ riding uphill on single track. Fire roads are dull.
> 
> As someone who likes riding uphill, I wouldn't ask you to ride down on the FR so I could ride up the ST unimpeded. It's asinine to expect everyone to conform to your style of riding. If the trails are too crowed for you, go at a different time of day, or go somewhere less popular. Otherwise learn to share the ST with other users.


+1


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

88 rex said:


> My favorite rule that is never followed, and it's not our fault, is that hiker's have the right of way. I cannot think of one time where I've come to a hiker or group of hikers and stopped to let them pass. They ALWAYS step aside long before I reach them. Horses, however, I always stop unless the owner says that it's ok.


Yeah, I usually get that too. I'll stop anyway and wave them on through, then chat them up almost annoyingly pleasantly, "How ya doin folks? Lovely day to be out, isn't it? Hey, if you're quiet and move softly, there's a pair of thrushes courting back there...". I like to force them to have a pleasant interaction with a mountain biker. Most people are willing to, many with a sense of surprise, but it's really fun when you can visibly see the curmudgeons squirming over having to be polite back. If you're sweet enough that they have to be a huge [email protected] to not respond nicely, it really messes with the rage and fury in their heads.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

HotBlack said:


> Yeah, I usually get that too. I'll stop anyway and wave them on through, then chat them up almost annoyingly pleasantly, "How ya doin folks? Lovely day to be out, isn't it? Hey, if you're quiet and move softly, there's a pair of thrushes courting back there...". I like to force them to have a pleasant interaction with a mountain biker. Most people are willing to, many with a sense of surprise, but it's really fun when you can visibly see the curmudgeons squirming over having to be polite back. If you're sweet enough that they have to be a huge [email protected] to not respond nicely, it really messes with the rage and fury in their heads.


I think most people have a little apprehension when approaching a stranger, since the encounter could go any number of directions. If you're wearing a blank face and act as if you're annoyed then your body language says, "F off", but if you're openly friendly then you might get some friendliness back. It's pretty basic social interaction stuff but it's amazing how many people don't grasp it.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 1
> Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
> I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please.
> 
> ...


Maybe your 14 riders are downhillers who give a rats ass about etiquette or right of way so they can "get their downhill on"? Not hypocrites in that case. The rule probably originates with the vehicle code (where uphill has right of way). Yes, many guys trying to clean a climb would be pissed to let some guy with gravity on his side force them to stop unnecessarily. Hadn't heard the term goaters before, though I do know many. Personally I'm slow enough on the uphill that if it's a good time for me to take a break and let someone by, that's fine, but when I want to keep spinning or find it difficult to stop I do expect the courtesy of the right of way.

I personally like climbing singletrack, dirt roads are boring. If you want DH trails, either get one established or go to the lift-assisted resorts where you can get your downhill on all day long.

In keeping with the wishes of the OP


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

ill pretty much let the downhill rider have the right of way, i know how hard it is to pin a sweet section and to me that feeling is better than grinding up a climb, but then again i always yeild to the uphill rider too when im going down so i could say im just a nice guy overall lol

and id rather climb a fire road cuz i dont like climbing much and id rather just zone out till im done and then ride the sweeet singletrack down and out


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## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2008)

I like it when both riders uphill and downhill keep riding if possible.
I am especially impressed when female riders do this. This helps the flow of the uphill and downhill riders.


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## Glynis27 (Sep 28, 2007)

If I haven't started the climb yet and hear someone heading down, I will stop and move over. If I am already partially up the climb, I won't move over. I don't like not being able to make a climb and will attempt it again and again until I either make it or pass out.


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## crager34 (Feb 23, 2005)

space said:


> Finally, if someone is riding with headphones they are an idiot and always at fault for anything that happens to them or any other trail users around them.


Now now!! I have ridden with them and have been extra careful. I also have turned the volumn down, as to be able to hear as best I could. It's all about responsibility and putting all people who ride with headphones in the "idiot" catagory isn't cool.

Just because George W. Bush graduated from Yale doesn't make all Yale graduates... ??well: I will let all of you decide where that ending should go.


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 2
> Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access?


Why do azzhats have to descend my climbing trails, when there are perfectly good FR's to descend on?


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Triple Threat said:


> I am especially impressed when female riders do this.


I hear they can even vote now!


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## TheSubaruJunkie (Apr 6, 2008)

Seanbike said:


> You called out and made your best effort to alert other riders on the trail, dumb ass can't hear cause he has his Ipod on, his problem not yours. You did the right thing, he is in the wrong.


What if the dumbass cant hear because he is hearing impaired? Im sure glad I'm not deaf, or else I would be in danger of the other "dumbass" out there who think an audible warning is enough to ride wrecklessly.

Nothing changes if you have earphones in or not. Each rider is responsible for abiding by the rules, and that includes giving uphill riders the right of way, and also passing when its safe to do so. Shouting "RIDER DOWN" or "ON YOUR LEFT" does not mean you can pass on single track or bomb downhill.


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

NoahColorado said:


> I hear they can even vote now!


I think that's just an urban legend...


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

1. Not all of us are hypocrites. Its not a law, its common courtesey. I always yeild to climbers. Most others do it for me too.
2. The trails I ride on are 2 way. I love to ride up them, its a challenge apart. The fire roads you can take are as boring as the road.

Perhaps on fr or all mountain trails things are different. Obviously they will be on downhill. But where I ride its all trailriding. So going up is as viable as going down a trail, and sometimes more fun too.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

bullit44777 said:


> wow you completely don't get it. I was asking if thats the rule, how come so many people DON'T abide by it? The same people who say uphill rider has right of way, will not stop at all on the downhill, thats what I said. I questioned why there is that rule, somebody mentioned being clipped, thats a good point! I never said what I think of the rule, or what I do on the downhill.
> As far as being selfish, hey everybody does what they like, its fun, no problems there, up, down, whatever, I was just talking about one trail in particular, I think FR are boring too, but I figure on this particular trail I'm keeping it opened up so people can have fun riding down it, how does that make me selfish? I thought for some reason the whole point of getting to the top is to have fun on the way down, but I'm an idiot....
> Finally some guy riding downhill yells out and if the uphill guy is wearing earphones and doesn't hear its his fault, what?


in no way am I being disrespectful or sarcastic but welcome to the human race, particularly the north american variety. Selfish, self-serving and over privileged. Sad but true. Too many find fault in others for not following the rules when they are effected by them yet have no problem ignoring them themselves when convenient.

Sad but you can either act as they do or lead by example. At least when leading by example if something happens you can say that you were in the right and you always ride in the right.


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## Mike N. (Aug 5, 2008)

*Be calm, be calm...*

Sorry, Rockcrusher; you're right, I take it back, and respecfully withdraw my admittedly hasty response.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Mike N. said:


> Hey "BULL__IT," maybe you can understand this: TRAIL CLOSED TO BICYCLES. Any questions?


wow third post and so understanding. Perhaps one should count to 10 before judging anyone and perhaps read all the posts as I recall that Bullit never said that he didn't understand it but that he was so perplexed as to why those that complained the loudest are also those that transgressed the guidelines they complained about others violating.


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## Raineman (Feb 7, 2008)

Simply yield to the guy who is doing the work.(uphill)
It's called courtesy.

Also, please drive on the right side of the road,eventhough it may be more convenient for you to drive on the left side once in a while.
Thanks.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

rockcrusher said:


> in no way am I being disrespectful or sarcastic but welcome to the human race, particularly the north american variety. Selfish, self-serving and over privileged. Sad but true. Too many find fault in others for not following the rules when they are effected by them yet have no problem ignoring them themselves when convenient.
> 
> Sad but you can either act as they do or lead by example. At least when leading by example if something happens you can say that you were in the right and you always ride in the right.


Lead by example? Wait, that sounds like I'd be doing something I wouldn't benefit from emediately. As a matter of fact it seems someone could benefit by my example before I could. There's got to be some way I could benefit from my example before anyone else can or it's just not worth it.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

If I can clear it in the uphill direction with out any insane trials moves is its really a free ride/dh trail that people should be shuttling??

Triple Threat "I like it when both riders uphill and downhill keep riding if possible.
I am especially impressed when female riders do this. This helps the flow of the uphill and downhill riders." 

You have the right idea there and the most intelligent response to this troll yet....


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## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2008)

*Touche'*



NoahColorado said:


> I hear they can even vote now!


But you know what I'm saying.
It is awesome to see skilled riders out on the trails (male and female alike).


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## ridata (Jul 14, 2007)

The reason the person going uphill has right of way I think stemmed from cars.
We deal with this all the time renting jeeps out to go over the passes. The reason being it is safer to back uphill than to back downhill, so the uphill guy can safely move out of the way of the guy coming up. But this is all in theory, common sense is just as important. The jeeps around seem to be able to do it quite well. 
It would be nice if all bikers showed the same courtesy.


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## xcmtber (Mar 22, 2006)

*Quote from Iridethedirt*

I agree that riding the downhill is WAY more fun, and its pretty annoying to have to slow/stop to allow the uphill rider to pass. However... when you're on a climb, every last bit of momentum is important, especially if its loose dirt, or rocks/gravel/scree... its a lot harder to stop in the middle of a climb to allow someone to blast by and then get started from a stop on a steep loose surface. if I see a rider coming from far enough away, and I can stop and let them enjoy their downhill without wrecking my climb I do it, but I also expect that if I don't see them early enough, then they should let me pass while climbing, and yield to me. its just about being courteous and who it inconveniences the least. also, having a consistent rule everybody knows and hopefully follows makes for a safer ride. there are enough blind corners with 2 way traffic out in single-track land as it is... we don't need right of way confusion too! ha ha anyway, another thought... if you're in the lead, and pass someone going the opposite way on single-track, do you guys tend to say "got 2 more behind me" or something similar to let the rider going the opposite way that he will have more riders to deal with a bit down the trail? around here with the rolling hills, I appreciate when people give that courtesy, lets me know if I am coming up on a downhill, and I have not crossed paths with those other riders, that I can wait for them to pass before bombing the hill and having to yield to them halfway down, ruining my fun.... I always try to remember to give that courtesy to riders going the opposite direction...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Man if I have my serious dh going ....I just act dumb and keep riding down....sometimes I will ride up on the hillside so I don't have to stop when I go around uphill people

the original poster is right.....if someone has headphones on....I hope I scare him big time


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## KLittle123 (Oct 27, 2007)

I love uphills... I only do downhills cause I know there's an uphill at the end of them...


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Man if I have my serious dh going ....I just act dumb and keep riding down....s*ometimes I will ride up on the hillside* so I don't have to stop when I go around uphill people


Nice one....and why trail widening is such a big issue.

This thread brings on that whole DH mentality that shows that many DH riders feel some need to have the non-stop Disneyland ride that they think they are entitled to. Riding bikes is not a video game or an amusement park ride. It's a way to get around in on the earth. There are rules and respect for other trail users such as people on foot aka hikers and people on horses and even other people on bike that are struggling to ride up the hill someone might be coasting down.

So remember if you think your big equity is grabbing some brake levers slowing your way down, that there are people out there sweating hard to crank their bikes up that dirt to get their chance to use their brakes on their way back down too. It's rate that people shuttle by climbing and not riding back down.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Man if I have my serious dh going ....I just act dumb and keep riding down....sometimes I will ride up on the hillside so I don't have to stop when I go around uphill people
> 
> the original poster is right.....if someone has headphones on....I hope I scare him big time


SMT you're not acting...you're just dumb. Thanks for your valuable input in reviving the thread...


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## retro-newb (Aug 20, 2008)

O BOY at the end of the day fellas we are all out there to have fun rather it be up or down.

some might not agree with the rules of the trail,but they have to be followed.if not specially on shared trails,we could lose our rights to ride if horse'ers or hikers complain enough.im not from there but i heard alot of trails shut off to us in north cali becuase of this.

ride on.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

> This thread brings on that whole DH mentality that shows that many DH riders feel some need to have the non-stop Disneyland ride that they think they are entitled to. Riding bikes is not a video game or an amusement park ride. It's a way to get around in on the earth. There are rules and respect for other trail users such as people on foot aka hikers and people on horses and even other people on bike that are struggling to ride up the hill someone might be coasting down..





> some might not agree with the rules of the trail,but they have to be followed.if not specially on shared trails,we could lose our rights to ride if horse'ers or hikers complain enough.im not from there but i heard alot of trails shut off to us in north cali becuase of this.


At first I thought SMTs post was a troll but then I started remembering some of his other posts. Guys like SMT don't care about all that stuff as long as they are getting their downhill on. It's all about them and their fun.


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## shoulderfu (Sep 25, 2005)

huh?


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## NJMX835 (Oct 17, 2006)

Everytime I see one of these threads I wonder where it is you guys live that there are all thse people on the trails? 

If I see 2 people during a 3 hour ride, that's alot.... and I live in Jersey


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## Albee (Jul 21, 2004)

bullit44777 said:


> Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding up it are making it impossible to have any fun riding down it, once again I am more than happy to ride up the FR to gain access, so that other riders can get their DH on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away....


Man, I just can't believe the mindset behind those comments. I'm with those who just like being on a trail, whether it's up or down.

Slug another Mountain Dew, dude! :thumbsup:


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Tahoe on the weekends, lots of tourists until you get a couple miles form the trailhead.

Vegas on the weekends as well, there are really only two places to go ride for he whole city.



NJMX835 said:


> Everytime I see one of these threads I wonder where it is you guys live that there are all thse people on the trails?
> 
> If I see 2 people during a 3 hour ride, that's alot.... and I live in Jersey


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## Ericmopar (Aug 23, 2003)

I don't think anyone has mentioned, that frequent stops on a busy trail while climbing, also uses much more energy than a steady climb. 
Starting on steep hills repeatedly, causes a rider to go anaerobic and can greatly shorten your ride. 

It's also a problem of downhillers, using XC trails. 
Thankfully we don't usually have the yielding problem at Bootleg, unless Interbike or a race is in town.
For some reason, the visitors are the biggest problem around here. 
The local downhillers respect the guys that ride up, partly because many of the pro riders also train XC to stay in shape and understand both sides of the issue.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

NJMX835 said:


> Everytime I see one of these threads I wonder where it is you guys live that there are all thse people on the trails?
> 
> If I see 2 people during a 3 hour ride, that's alot.... and I live in Jersey


On my Sunday ride I saw about 10-15 other mountain bikers in the parking lot, along with the assorted people on motorcycles and road bikes. On the trail I passed one two separate groups twice, three other groups once and a bunch of solo riders. I actually didn't bump into either of the groups I saw in the parking lot though since they started after me and I was doing some weird loops.

So following the trail rules are extremely important to me. I haven't been on a ride in years where I haven't passed riders or hikers.


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> ....I just act dumb and keep riding down....


Like Forrest Gump would say...

"....stupid is as stupid does", or something like that.

I'm surprised you would think that it'd be a smart way to ride SMT.


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 1
> Allright one of the rules I've been told is "Uphill riders have right of way". I'd say 70% of the time this is hypocritcal bs, as a pack of 14 riders come down the ST and never even try to stop or share the trail, happens all the time.
> I am more than glad to stand off to the side and let people get their downhill on, makes more sense to me. Where did this rule come from? Is it because goaters will be upset if they don't clean the UH? Don't tell me its too hard to start again please.
> 
> .


Whether its harder or not is not for you to decide, even though you obviously know everything. Sooner or later, two people are going to pass in opposite directions on the trail. Relatively speaking, it is easier to stop and restart going DH than UH. What part of that doesn't make sense to you, oh-one-who-knows-all?

Most MTB organizations and multi-use trails establish the rules for safety. Without them, a lot of trails would be off limits due to injury/liability reasons.



bullit44777 said:


> rant 2
> Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding up it are making it impossible to have any fun riding down it, once again I am more than happy to ride up the FR to gain access, so that other riders can get their DH on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away....


Again, who are you to decide how a trail should be ridden? A lot of times I go out and do a trail once each direction. A trail can present completely different challenges in each direction. No one gives a rat's azz what you would be happy to do, or what makes sense to you.

But this is all noise to you, as you are probably every bit of 15 years old and think that you know everything there is to know.


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## AnthemRider (Feb 7, 2007)

Albee said:


> Man, I just can't believe the mindset behind those comments. I'm with those who just like being on a trail, whether it's up or down.
> 
> Slug another Mountain Dew, dude! :thumbsup:


It's the Mike Vandeman (sp?) syndrome: If your choice of activities are not the same as mine, you are wrong.

Of course, he fails to explain why he doesn't just ride down the fire road if it's right next to the trail -- then he would have a nice wide path and wouldn't have to worry about slowing down or yielding to ascending riders -- or even keeping his bike under control so he doesn't endanger other users.

Man, life's a bummer when people expect you to act responsibly.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

glenzx said:


> Like Forrest Gump would say...
> 
> "....stupid is as stupid does", or something like that.
> 
> I'm surprised you would think that it'd be a smart way to ride SMT.


boy catch a clue....it was a joke.....nobody read the first guys post and went after him......

all are stupid is as stupid does

he was stating why is there a rule when people ignore it in the first place....his rides up are constantly interupted.....who made this rule in the first place

second thing is....if the single track is so narrow and there is a fireroad next to it....why not climb fireroad to let others get their groove on downhill...just *a courtesy *for the people going down


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

zrm said:


> At first I thought SMTs post was a troll but then I started remembering some of his other posts. Guys like SMT don't care about all that stuff as long as they are getting their downhill on. It's all about them and their fun.


ha ha....hook line and sinker...got you


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

rdhood said:


> Whether its harder or not is not for you to decide, even though you obviously know everything. Sooner or later, two people are going to pass in opposite directions on the trail. Relatively speaking, it is easier to stop and restart going DH than UH. What part of that doesn't make sense to you, oh-one-who-knows-all?
> 
> Most MTB organizations and multi-use trails establish the rules for safety. Without them, a lot of trails would be off limits due to injury/liability reasons.
> 
> ...


man your reading comp must really suck....re-read post again.....he says he pulls over, but when he climbs people just don't follow the rules...He questions who made the rules...

then the second part is about courtesy...plain old courtesy....but you wouldn't know it by picking on the 15 year old


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## space (May 25, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> boy catch a clue....it was a joke.....nobody read the first guys post and went after him......
> 
> all are stupid is as stupid does
> 
> ...


Did you read the rest of the thread? Why doesn't he ride down the fire road and let the guy climbing get his groove on? After all many people find it more enjoyable then going down.

As for other people not following the rules; some people are idiots, some are *******s. Just gotta deal with them, personally I write them off as too stupid to even acknowledge, but you can try to educate them if you want


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## TLL (Apr 28, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Man if I have my serious dh going ....I just act dumb and keep riding down....


that iz teh gnracorzz! u1337 rippa! Uroolsz!!


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## KLittle123 (Oct 27, 2007)

NJMX835 said:


> Everytime I see one of these threads I wonder where it is you guys live that there are all thse people on the trails?
> 
> If I see 2 people during a 3 hour ride, that's alot.... and I live in Jersey


I think he's got a point. I'm lucky if I come across one actually where I ride, and usually if I do it's usually a question of who looks more business on whether I yield or not. If the guy looks like he's pro then I'll usually move.


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## glenzx (Dec 19, 2003)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> second thing is....if the single track is so narrow and there is a fireroad next to it....why not climb fireroad to let others get their groove on downhill...just *a courtesy *for the people going down


SMT - why don't you catch a clue (won't call you _*'boy'*_ as I do not know your age nor 'real life' personality). No way to tell you were 'joking' given the flat, humorless demeanor to your post. It sounded terse and ill informed and naive. Forgive my misunderstanding.

I read - thoroughly - and responded to the OP a long, long tme ago. Why not take your own advice and read all the posts / responses? I addressed your idea already - and reiterate that I get my groove on going up - so why don't you all extend a courtesy to the climbers amongst us and *descend the fire road instead*?

See - it's a matter of perspective.

The rules are even pretty simple and easy to comprehend. At relatively busy times where I live - I will do this; climb the fun techy single track for 1000's of feet over many miles and then bomb back to town on safer routes where there will not be a user conflict issue. Like fire roads - or *gasp* paved roads. That's what I call courtesy - and it's partly self-serving too in that I am avoiding any conflict issues. Of course, If I saw 3 people in a few hours on the trails - it'd be news.


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> man your reading comp must really suck....re-read post again.....he says he pulls over, but when he climbs people just don't follow the rules...He questions who made the rules...
> 
> then the second part is about courtesy...plain old courtesy....but you wouldn't know it by picking on the 15 year old


SMT, your reading comprehension DOES really suck. I made no statement at all about the OP's behavior. I merely told him why the rules exist and why his ATTITUDE, not his behavior, is wrong

As for the second part, it has nothing to do with courtesy. Courtesy says DH traffic yields to UH traffic... not that everyone does everything the way the OP has envisioned. What the OP wanted was to forego established courtesy and for everyone to see it and do it his way... believing that he is right. That is not courtesy. That is selfish.


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## Margaritaman (Aug 25, 2008)

KLittle123 said:


> If the guy looks like he's pro then I'll usually move.


The only Pro I've ever passed on the trail was Tinker Juarez and he was going faster uphill than I was going downhill!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

rdhood said:


> it is easier to stop and restart going DH than UH.


It's easier to stop going uphill (gravity works with you, takes less distance).
It's easier to start going downhill (gravity works with you, takes less effort).

Longer braking distance = more time needed to avoid collision = more physical risk = bad
More effort to start moving = more exercise = good

People moving downhill go faster = more wind noise = can't hear oncoming riders as well
People moving uphill go more slowly = can hear better

People moving downhill go faster = can't see and react as quickly
People moving uphill go more slowly = can see and react more quickly

Beats me why our founding fathers decided uphill has right-of-way. Seems less safe to me, but them's the rules.

Oh yeah:
Trying to stop going downhill = more likely to skid
Trying to stop going uphill = more likely to stop taking yourself so seriously


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## gord962 (Aug 11, 2007)

Be courteous on the trails whether you are going uphill or downhill. Yes, downhillers should yield to uphillers, but both should be courteous all pull over so neither one has to stop and dismount. As always, there are exceptions to the rule, but do your best to follow them.

If you feel the need to bomb downhill with no disregard for two way traffic, go find a downhill park.


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## Brodino (Sep 15, 2008)

I have not had to deal with this lately since my local trail is one way and the ST and DH sections are in separate areas.


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## Margaritaman (Aug 25, 2008)

Nat said:


> It's easier to stop going uphill (gravity works with you, takes less distance).
> It's easier to start going downhill (gravity works with you, takes less effort).
> 
> Longer braking distance = more time needed to avoid collision = more physical risk = bad
> ...


You should have been a political campaign manager.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

rdhood said:


> SMT, your reading comprehension DOES really suck. I made no statement at all about the OP's behavior. I merely told him why the rules exist and why his* ATTITUDE*, not his behavior, is wrong
> 
> As for the second part, it has nothing to do with courtesy. Courtesy says DH traffic yields to UH traffic... not that everyone does everything the way the OP has envisioned. What the OP wanted was to forego established courtesy and for everyone to see it and do it his way... believing that he is right. That is not courtesy. That is selfish.


*re-read it again....you are a lousy reader and seems to be worse then myself*....but let me paraphrase

he doesn't mind pulling over when climbing up
he doesn't mind riding fireroad up so he isn't in the way of those who go down

he only asked who made up the rules which people don't follow, then threw in the cooment about goaters (big deal)

everybody missed the true intention of this post


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Nat said:


> It's easier to stop going uphill (gravity works with you, takes less distance).
> It's easier to start going downhill (gravity works with you, takes less effort).
> 
> Longer braking distance = more time needed to avoid collision = more physical risk = bad
> ...


fricking beautiful....fricking beautiful.....and so true......

no biggie though....it is all about being courteous


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

glenzx said:


> SMT - why don't you catch a clue (won't call you _*'boy'*_ as I do not know your age nor 'real life' personality). No way to tell you were 'joking' given the flat, humorless demeanor to your post. It sounded terse and ill informed and naive. Forgive my misunderstanding.
> 
> I read - thoroughly - and responded to the OP a long, long tme ago. Why not take your own advice and read all the posts / responses? I addressed your idea already - and reiterate that I get my groove on going up - so why don't you all extend a courtesy to the climbers amongst us and *descend the fire road instead*?
> 
> ...


yeah I am old........really it is not about right of ways because some people don't know them....it is all about courtesy

I read the many post, but most were wrongfully lamblasting the original poster.....Bullitt would have been the guy pulling over for you


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Margaritaman said:


> You should have been a political campaign manager.


Yes, cuz I'm so mavericky.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

C'mon, might as well give the goaters their uphill, otherwise they will get thier bibs all in a bunch. need proof? re-read this thread...

that being said, i love my xc and my dh. i try to assess the situation and make the safest judgment whether i am on the UH or DH to who will give the right of way. mostly i just give the right of way to the other person (either direction) because i could really care less if i have to move over or even completely stop for a couple of seconds...


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

> that being said, i love my xc and my dh. i try to assess the situation and make the safest judgment whether i am on the UH or DH to who will give the right of way. mostly i just give the right of way to the other person (either direction) because i could really care less if i have to move over or even completely stop for a couple of seconds...


Yep. Someone passed me in the opposite direction on the trail last week and said, " Is this trail directional?", to which I replied "Yeah, it's whatever direction you happen to be going."

There is no "right way" or "wrong way" on most trails. There is no "courtesy to others" or lack of it by going in any particular direction. There is only "courtesy to others" in the way that you pass each other. There is no moral imperative in UH vs. DH. There is just convention and whether you choose to follow it ( I do ).


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## RogerDoger (Sep 20, 2008)

rdhood said:


> There is no "right way" or "wrong way" on most trails. There is no "courtesy to others" or lack of it by going in any particular direction. There is only "courtesy to others" in the way that you pass each other. There is no moral imperative in UH vs. DH. There is just convention and whether you choose to follow it ( I do ).


Agree.


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## Ericmopar (Aug 23, 2003)

If someone at Bootleg comes screaming down the trail while I'm climbing a technical section, then someone is getting hurt, because a person can't get out of the way while climbing technical rock gardens. At least around here. 
The persons saying that climbers can see better are full of it. I can see forever when looking down our local trails, but can't see more than 100 ft or so, along most of our XC trails when climbing. 
When climbing, you're usually looking at the grade in front of you.
That being said, if I am on an easy grade going up, and I'm not climbing something technical, I usually yield to people coming down, so as not to ruin their flow.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

_It's easier to stop going uphill (gravity works with you, takes less distance).
It's easier to start going downhill (gravity works with you, takes less effort)._

Still doesn't address restarting (this is about stopping AND restarting) nor does it take into account all trail conditions.

_Longer braking distance = more time needed to avoid collision = more physical risk = bad
More effort to start moving = more exercise = good_

If you're going at an appropriate speed you can brake in plenty of time, but there are times when climbing that you can't stop safely.

_People moving downhill go faster = more wind noise = can't hear oncoming riders as well
People moving uphill go more slowly = can hear better_

Climbers don't make much noise so what are you going to hear over the wind noise? Downhillers make a lot of noise, though. Can you hear around blind corners?

_People moving downhill go faster = can't see and react as quickly
People moving uphill go more slowly = can see and react more quickly_

Exactly, which is why you need to control your speed unless it's a downhill only trail.

_Beats me why our founding fathers decided uphill has right-of-way. Seems less safe to me, but them's the rules._

Because it had precedent with other modes of travel.

_Oh yeah:
Trying to stop going downhill = more likely to skid
Trying to stop going uphill = more likely to stop taking yourself so seriously 
_

You won't skid if you're in control on a multi use trail. Speaking of not taking yourself so seriously....


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

I never expect downhillers to stop for me when I'm going up hill, that just no make sense...ut:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> _It's easier to stop going uphill (gravity works with you, takes less distance).
> It's easier to start going downhill (gravity works with you, takes less effort)._
> 
> Still doesn't address restarting (this is about stopping AND restarting) nor does it take into account all trail conditions.
> ...


Nice try anyway.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Ericmopar said:


> When climbing, you're usually looking at the grade in front of you.


Look up a little. You'll see more.


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## gord962 (Aug 11, 2007)

It's not about stopping for riders in the other direction, it's about slowing down and proceeding with caution (check the definition of *yield* if you guys are confused by this statement). These are shared trails we are talking about. Each person has the same right to be on them, regardless of the direction they are travelling in. Use some common sense, stay in control of your bike, be aware of your surroundings and look down the trails to identify on coming riders.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

I have an idea- 

Why not just yield to other riders if you can, regardless of if you're going up or down? 

Who gives a crap if you don't get to clean your uphill line? Who gives a crap if your downhill flow had to stop for a second? You're out riding your bike instead of sitting in some boring office or in front of the TV, be happy! If you can move out of the way, do it, if the other party beats you to the punch, be thankful and say "thank you". 

I never understood people who took riding their bikes so seriously that they stop having fun.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> C'mon, might as well give the goaters their uphill, otherwise they will get thier bibs all in a bunch. need proof? re-read this thread...
> 
> that being said, i love my xc and my dh. i try to assess the situation and make the safest judgment whether i am on the UH or DH to who will give the right of way. mostly i just give the right of way to the other person (either direction) because i could really care less if i have to move over or even completely stop for a couple of seconds...





bdamschen said:


> I have an idea-
> 
> Why not just yield to other riders if you can, regardless of if you're going up or down?
> 
> ...


there you go.....Have fun and just try to be courteus no matter which way you go


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## Raineman (Feb 7, 2008)

The idea is that the uphill rider is working harder and therefore should be given right of way. The downhill rider can resume easily. It also helps downhill riders control their line when they are responsible to slow when descending at speed. 

If this is a HUGE inconvenience for you as the downhill rider, than maybe you should ride your own private trails.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Raineman said:


> If this is a HUGE inconvenience for you as the downhill rider, than maybe you should ride your own private trails.


I do but then all the goaters poach them...they end up injured and helicoptered out and the trail gets closed....so now I have to ride with even more of them...huck-a-rama


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## Raineman (Feb 7, 2008)

So they aren't your own private trails then, but trails you use and share. If we do it somewhat responsibly, there will be trails to ride tomorrow. Running into one another and hospitalizing one another will push us to having to PAY to ride on private land and to lose the tolerance of private land owners that let us ride.

Hey, wait a sec... are you the guy who ran into me with a moto during a MTB XC race and shouted something about going the wrong way at me? Maybe that was your twin. :>) Regardless, nice huck shot there.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

Raineman said:


> The idea is that the uphill rider is working harder and therefore should be given right of way. The downhill rider can resume easily. It also helps downhill riders control their line when they are responsible to slow when descending at speed.


Exactly.

I didn't even know there were rules about this but common sense dictates that you let the climber have the right of way since he/she is the most adversely affected by having to stop or to suddenly find a new line.

A little common sense and a little common courtesy will go a long ways.


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## dhscaresme (Sep 29, 2005)

*You actually make the DH fall over?*



MattCharettePhotography said:


> I have also lowered a shoulder to a downhiller bombing down a narrow ST that I was goating up, would not have done it had he at least warned me he was coming, I could not see over the crest of the hill and next thing I knew he was coming right at me blindly, expecting him to stop or at least slow, I held my ground and continued peddling, he did neither, so pulled over as much as I could, and leaned his direction some to keep from getting the brunt of the collision, knocked us both down, but him going much faster got the most of it, he swore at "the stupid climber" and clamored back onto his bike rather than coming at me like I expected.
> 
> I ALWAYS yield to the UH, no sense in not yielding to them, next time you see them on the trail and they are coming down, you are going up, you will appreciate it when they stop for you and bid you good day on your way past them. Etiquette is something that you should always practice on the trail, not only is it the polite thing to do, but it is generally the safest thing to do. had I not been paying attention he would have slammed head on into me, likely damaging both of our bikes, and hurting both of us... so your "me first" attitude only goes so far, if everyone thought the same way as you, the trails would be a much more dangerous place.


To those that have "lowered a shoulder to the downhill rider": that's pretty weak. I myself have been wrecked by a downhill rider, but never ever had enough time to think "I'm gonna rally this guy so I don't get the brunt of the impact." Being a jerk back is just gonna make things worse. Yield to the UH, and if it's obvious the DH is gonna fly by just get out of way and shout some good obscenities and remind him or her of etiquette.

I'm a dher, but have a 4" bike for training and when riding down an XC trail you just have to be careful and respectful, bottom line. There are hikers, bikers and dogs on the trail too.


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## GF70 (Apr 26, 2008)

I always slow down if I see an ascending rider and will stop if the ST is too narrow for both of us to pass. Otherwise, I continue descending slowly and give more of the trail to the ascending rider. 

I think the only time I would go all out descending is if I knew the trail was closed to ascending riders. Cause for a lot of us we need to show up in one piece for work the next day.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Around here almost everyone follows the downhill yields to uphill rule. That's what I do and I also ride well below the edge when descending, especially when I don't have a good site difference so I don't have to do some wild a$$ed skid to slow or stop for a climbing rider.. I also ride with extra caution when descending on typically busy trails. Makes total sense to yield the trail when you have gravity on your side.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

I'm kinda glad there aren't many trails here.I couldn't handle all the frikkin *****ing.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Ohhh this thread.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

bullit44777 said:


> rant 2
> Why do people have to ride up ST if there is FR access? There is a local trail by me and its about 2 feet wide, the people riding up it are making it impossible to have any fun riding down it, once again I am more than happy to ride up the FR to gain access, so that other riders can get their DH on and have fun, makes sense to me, and seems more considerate, flame away....


F.U.

I enjoy riding ST uphill and I do not erode trails as much and do not endanger other trail users as much.

I could not care less about DH crowd. They give us all a bad image.


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## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2008)

*Dumb*



Curmy said:


> F.U.
> 
> I enjoy riding ST uphill and I do not erode trails as much and do not endanger other trail users as much.
> 
> I could not care less about DH crowd. They give us all a bad image.


I enjoy uphill and downhill alike and don't wear spandex, but who really cares.
Why hate on the DH crowd (by the way I am not a DH rider).


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## RogerDoger (Sep 20, 2008)

*no stop*

When I'm on the singlespeed and working friggin' hard to go up I usually don't bother looking up at any downhill rider. 99% of the time they end up stopping when they notice that I'm not looking at them. With one gear it's quite difficult to get going again whereas going DH one can choose exactly where to stop and to give ones self enough to coast a bit to clip back in.

Only once have I hit a DH rider. Narrow and very steep ST and I was half way up an 1/8 mile climb. He was on top of the hill standing and started yelling "coming down...move out of the way...coming down...move out of the way." He ended up smacking my bar-end and dropped about 10-15 feed down on rock and cactus. I fell against the hill on the opposite side. I normally don't become violent but when someone endangers my life I snap. I helped him out by throwing his bike downhill about 20 feet. It was by far the uncoolest thing I've done in a long time, but what the hell was he thinking?!

I don't know, I'm faster than on my hardtail going down than a lot of people on their 40# bikes and I still stop for uphillers even though I don't like to. Its' not a rule but it's nice in return when people stop for me. :thumbsup:


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

I guess that uphill riders having the right of way is kind of like hikers having the right of way. Even though the hiker has the right of way he almost always gets out of the way. It would be so much easier if every downhill rider gave the uphill biker the right of way though.


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

It's encouraging that 90% or more of these posts (in my estimation) speak from a position of sanity. The area I live in might not have the best trails, but I have yet to come across a-holes like the other 10% posting here. I'll take it.


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## Lampshade132 (Aug 28, 2008)

Well, if you're "bombing" down a hill that some one can ride up, you're not as big a hard ass DH'er as you think you are. So either go somewhere else or deal with it.

Not directed at Bullit, you were just asking about what the rule was...


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## bullit44777 (May 30, 2006)

wow 128 responses all saying the same thing are you sheep?
1. I always knew what the rule was, but wanted to see what reasons you had,
they were all good.
2. I was never talking about dhr's, only xc types... usually the dhr's I ride with
are way more careful and humble, because they are always being harassed
over land issues, ride at an elevated level and have to be in control.
(i'm sure you'll flame me for saying that so fu in advance).
3. To this day, I think about this thread when I'm on the trail, and of course
this never happens to anybody else, but I still say 50% of xc riders on xc
trails will not stop on the way down, it happens every weekend and yes
I "deal" with it and no its not a big thing, I'm just stating that the same
people who wine uphill rider has got right of way, are the same people
who violate that rule on the way down, can you comprehend that?
thats all I ever said, so fu in advance.
4. If you could read, I never stated what I do. 
(but mr internet tough guy wants to check me into a tree, you get the moron award)
5. And finally, my item#2 ya know it sounds snotty, I would never tell people how to ride,
where to ride, or what direction to ride.....I was just frustrated at packs of 10
clogging the trail, when one day i did pull over, but the uphill rider stayed centered
and clipped my shoulder, no big deal to me but he got upset and that pissed me off.
(if you're going to flame for that well double fu in advance)


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## king2005 (Mar 25, 2004)

*Depends on the area*

There are places where I get out of the way going UH, and places where I totally appreciate DH riders letting me go.

If you climb all day, and just want to flow DH after earning it, I'm all for it, just as I do. If it's a sketchy place and the UH is trying hard to "clean" it, than I'll let them and continue after they go by, no big deal.

Rule of thumb for me though, if the trail you're riding is traditionally a DH trail (trail most people access via fireroad, etc.) than you are an ass for exepecting everyone to let you go while going up it in reverse...

When I'm coming down, I sure appreciate folks getting out of the way, as I'm usually jamming to some tunes and enjoying the ride (which is why we ride in the first place), and don't plan on stopping for someone putting up a hill.


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## bullit44777 (May 30, 2006)

good response king, I'm all about that. just common sense for each situation...


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

We got soul!!! Ok just kidding. We got lighter wheels. Seriously I just changed to discs and noticed how much heavier wheels slow you down.


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