# Going from 100mm to 60mm rear travel



## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Hello

I currently have a 2020 Orbea Oiz with 100mm of rear travel, but i am considering the 2022 Trek Supercaliber because i can get a good price on one, but I'm a little hesitant with going from 100mm of rear travel to 60mm.
The trails here are not the teckiest, a good dose of roots and a bit of rocky terrain. I race national series and national champs. I am a tall, light rider.

Any toughts or experience on this?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

If you are a racer looking for a race bike, this is probably good for you. If you want a dual duty trail bike, probably not.


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## kevine1785 (Mar 29, 2021)

I would seriously try and give it a spin.. the XC races by me have been getting more technically difficult over the last 2-3 years... the move towards more "downcountry" is real.. and this may be an issue with going to a 60mm rear. If what you race is a lot of fire road with a lot of elevation gain I would say go with the Supercaliber, but the Scott Spark and the Specialized Epic are the two most winning XC bikes and both are going with more suspension, not less.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

kevine1785 said:


> I would seriously try and give it a spin.. the XC races by me have been getting more technically difficult over the last 2-3 years... the move towards more "downcountry" is real.. and this may be an issue with going to a 60mm rear. If what you race is a lot of fire road with a lot of elevation gain I would say go with the Supercaliber, but the Scott Spark and the Specialized Epic are the two most winning XC bikes and both are going with more suspension, not less.


Isn't the Spark up to 120 mm now? It seems to me that there's been a pretty good injection of fun into XC race courses over the last several years.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

kevine1785 said:


> I would seriously try and give it a spin.. the XC races by me have been getting more technically difficult over the last 2-3 years... the move towards more "downcountry" is real.. and this may be an issue with going to a 60mm rear. If what you race is a lot of fire road with a lot of elevation gain I would say go with the Supercaliber, but the Scott Spark and the Specialized Epic are the two most winning XC bikes and both are going with more suspension, not less.


Yea, Norway is i bit behind with the development of technical trails.
I actually think supercaliber is the most winning bike from 2021...


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Curveball said:


> Isn't the Spark up to 120 mm now? It seems to me that there's been a pretty good injection of fun into XC race courses over the last several years.


Yea it is 120mm, it would be fun, but not the fastest at the local trails


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

You'll never know unless you go for glory.
We regret the things we don't do in life more than the things we do.
So take the plunge. Get the Trek. Get it quickly. Race weekend approaches.
Life should be lived in bold strokes. Be sure to post photos of you on the podium, please.
As scantily clad supermodels drip with champagne while kissing your cheeks.
=sParty


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Sparticus said:


> You'll never know unless you go for glory.
> We regret the things we don't do in life more than the things we do.
> So take the plunge. Get the Trek. Get it quickly. Race weekend approaches.
> Life should be lived in bold strokes. Be sure to post photos of you on the podium, please.
> ...


Yes! That was very motivating


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I had a 60mm Supercal two years ago. Liked it, but I prefer to run 2.8 and often 3.0" tires, and I missed those.

So I went to a 100mm bike last year. Really like it, especially since it can readily fit 3.0's.

Working on a chassis that's at ~60mm of travel _and_ that can fit 3.0's. Could be nirvana for _less-than-uber-gnar_.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

mikesee said:


> I had a 60mm Supercal two years ago. Liked it, but I prefer to run 2.8 and often 3.0" tires, and I missed those.
> 
> So I went to a 100mm bike last year. Really like it, especially since it can readily fit 3.0's.
> 
> Working on a chassis that's at ~60mm of travel _and_ that can fit 3.0's. Could be nirvana for _less-than-uber-gnar_.


Eager to see whatever you got incoming, Mike. 
I mean, you know, whenever it’s landed. 
=sParty


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> Eager to see whatever you got incoming, Mike.
> I mean, you know, whenever it’s landed.
> =sParty



you 'n me both!


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Laupe said:


> Hello
> 
> I currently have a 2020 Orbea Oiz with 100mm of rear travel, but i am considering the 2022 Trek Supercaliber because i can get a good price on one, but I'm a little hesitant with going from 100mm of rear travel to 60mm.
> The trails here are not the teckiest, a good dose of roots and a bit of rocky terrain. I race national series and national champs. I am a tall, light rider.
> ...


how stay so light 👌😋


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Stewiewin said:


> how stay so light 👌😋


Eat your vegetables


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

mikesee said:


> I had a 60mm Supercal two years ago. Liked it, but I prefer to run 2.8 and often 3.0" tires, and I missed those.
> 
> So I went to a 100mm bike last year. Really like it, especially since it can readily fit 3.0's.
> 
> Working on a chassis that's at ~60mm of travel _and_ that can fit 3.0's. Could be nirvana for _less-than-uber-gnar_.


Which 100mm travel bike can fit 3.0's ?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Laupe said:


> Yea it is 120mm, it would be fun, but not the fastest at the local trails


Yeah, I tend to see things through the lense of my local trails that are on the rough and burly side of things. There's almost no such thing as too much travel around these parts.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Curveball said:


> Yeah, I tend to see things through the lense of my local trails that are on the rough and burly side of things. There's almost no such thing as too much travel around these parts.


Agreed, terrain decides


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

Interesting -I'm on a 2020 Oiz TR (with rear travel reduced slightly via volume spacer to make the shock more progressive) and I'd like to try out a Supercaliber, as well. It would really suit my most favorite local trails, I think. I'm really not very technically skilled but I love to hammer & most of our trail networks in Western MA allow me to go out & drill myself til I'm drooling & gasping for breath.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

redwarrior said:


> Interesting -I'm on a 2020 Oiz TR (with rear travel reduced slightly via volume spacer to make the shock more progressive) and I'd like to try out a Supercaliber, as well. It would really suit my most favorite local trails, I think. I'm really not very technically skilled but I love to hammer & most of our trail networks in Western MA allow me to go out & drill myself til I'm drooling & gasping for breath.


Nice, for you it is a even bigger jump then. (I don't think volume spacers reduce travel, just makes it more progressive)


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## redwarrior (Apr 12, 2007)

Laupe said:


> (I don't think volume spacers reduce travel, just makes it more progressive)


Ahh -ok, thanks for letting me know. Clearly I'm going to have to better educate myself on this!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Laupe said:


> Which 100mm travel bike can fit 3.0's ?



This'n: LenzSport Mammoth 2021 by Mike Curiak on Exposure


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I would 100% race a super caliber on XC races that I do, long and short. The power transfer and efficiency would be worth it for me. I 100% would not buy that bike with its proprietary stuff with my own money.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Jayem said:


> I would 100% race a super caliber on XC races that I do, long and short. The power transfer and efficiency would be worth it for me. I 100% would not buy that bike with its proprietary stuff with my own money.


Nice to hear your thoughts, i am skeptical with all the proprietary parts, but since i work at a Trek dealer i hope that can make things easier


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

Jayem said:


> I would 100% race a super caliber on XC races that I do, long and short. The power transfer and efficiency would be worth it for me. I 100% would not buy that bike with its proprietary stuff with my own money.


I thought the same when it came out in 2020, no one wanted race bikes early/mid COVID and one set than my LBS let me ride through some techy trails wouldn't normally allow for a test ride and after that had to take it home.

In fairness though wasn't replacing a bike ended up in a N+1 kind of situation already had a 2020 top fuel, which has now been replaced by a Ripley. Two great pedaling bikes gives me better options compared to say just a 100mm bike. Do currently dread wait times if needs suspension work (beyond typical maintenance). pic for fun enjoy how this bike made for more flowy moderate terrain but a quick jaunt through the rough stuff it will handle (with limits and skill, not overly forgiving of mistakes)


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

The Supercaliber has shown to be better than the sum of its parts and quite a capable XC bike despite the limited 60mm travel. It strikes a really great balance between being a fast maneuverable bike but still stable. I find the 100mm fork is more of a limiter for me than the rear 60mm. On long days on rough, heavily rooted trails (4 - 5 hour rides) all those repeat hits add up and my hands start to get sore. 120mm up front would also me to run a little softer. 

That being said, at some point the 69 degree head angle is going to be a limiter and if you are doing a lot of challenging technical downhill riding, the 67.5 degrees on the Epic is going to be an advantage. I'm doing Leadville LT100 and Telluride 100 this year on the Supercaliber, which should be fine for those course. However in 2023 I'm doing Cape Epic and I'm concerned about being under-biked on the SC, given the long days and potential for tricky descents on trails I have never ridden. For that reason I'm waiting to see if anything new gets announced in June or July, but if not, then likely will build up an Epic or maybe even an Epic Evo.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Kuttermax said:


> That being said, at some point the 69 degree head angle is going to be a limiter and if you are doing a lot of challenging technical downhill riding, the 67.5 degrees on the Epic is going to be an advantage. I'm doing Leadville LT100 and Telluride 100 this year on the Supercaliber, which should be fine for those course. However in 2023 I'm doing Cape Epic and I'm concerned about being under-biked on the SC, given the long days and potential for tricky descents on trails I have never ridden. For that reason I'm waiting to see if anything new gets announced in June or July, but if not, then likely will build up an Epic or maybe even an Epic Evo.


That's marketing bull-crap. With a dropper post and 29er-freaking-wheels, if you are endo-ing or having trouble on steep descents, you need to buy more skills, not another bike. I call bull crap of 1.5 degrees mattering at all on a descent given a slammed seat and wheels that big. Consider there are people doing the 100 mile races on hardtails and rigid bikes too. Some suspension makes a giant difference. I understand wanting a little more travel to be a little less punishing over the long haul and when you get tired, I agree, but I don't see any real difference in HTA when things like a dropper makes such a bigger difference for descending ability.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Jayem said:


> That's marketing bull-crap. With a dropper post and 29er-freaking-wheels, if you are endo-ing or having trouble on steep descents, you need to buy more skills, not another bike. I call bull crap of 1.5 degrees mattering at all on a descent given a slammed seat and wheels that big. Consider there are people doing the 100 mile races on hardtails and rigid bikes too. Some suspension makes a giant difference. I understand wanting a little more travel to be a little less punishing over the long haul and when you get tired, I agree, but I don't see any real difference in HTA when things like a dropper makes such a bigger difference for descending ability.


You bring up some really fair points. My thought was the 1.5 degrees would make the bike track better on the downhills but perhaps feel less nimble and maneuverable at other times, but maybe I'm overthinking how much of an impact it would have.

Prior to having the Supercaliber, the two XC bikes I was riding were a Niner RKT 9 RDO and an AIR 9 RDO HT. Both have become redundant with the SC. The RKT 9 RDO has 90mm rear travel and a 71 degree head tube angle with a 100mm fork and about 70 degrees with a 120mm. I still have the bike and I have a 120mm StepCast on it and I find my Supercaliber with the 100mm SID more capable. Both have droppers, so my thought has been that the geometry on the SC, primarily the slacker HT, was a big part of why I felt more capable on it, but maybe there is more to it. Part of he reason I was considering the Epic was that I don't ride the RKT at all as I haven't come across any situations where I prefer it over the SC. I figured it would be easy to move the parts from it to an Epic.

Other than a few magazine articles and the PinkBike YouTube series, there isn't a ton of feedback I've come across from riders who have ridden the Supercaliber back to back with the Epic. I personally have not ridden the current gen Epic but hope to get a chance to get on one this year. I did speak with Jonathan Lee from TR about his experience with the SC vs the Epic and he didn't like the SC at all. His complaints were that it was too steep, too short, and too flexy in the rear on descents and he felt the rear end was getting hung up on rocks etc when he climbed. That hasn't been my experience at all climbing and, if anything, climbing seems to be a strength of the bike. Jonathan is a much more skilled rider than I am, so I do value his insights, but he is often quite polarized in his opinions.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Kuttermax said:


> The Supercaliber has shown to be better than the sum of its parts and quite a capable XC bike despite the limited 60mm travel. It strikes a really great balance between being a fast maneuverable bike but still stable. I find the 100mm fork is more of a limiter for me than the rear 60mm. On long days on rough, heavily rooted trails (4 - 5 hour rides) all those repeat hits add up and my hands start to get sore. 120mm up front would also me to run a little softer.
> 
> That being said, at some point the 69 degree head angle is going to be a limiter and if you are doing a lot of challenging technical downhill riding, the 67.5 degrees on the Epic is going to be an advantage. I'm doing Leadville LT100 and Telluride 100 this year on the Supercaliber, which should be fine for those course. However in 2023 I'm doing Cape Epic and I'm concerned about being under-biked on the SC, given the long days and potential for tricky descents on trails I have never ridden. For that reason I'm waiting to see if anything new gets announced in June or July, but if not, then likely will build up an Epic or maybe even an Epic Evo.


Nice to hear your thoughts, maybe you could try upping the travel at the front to get more squish and slacker HTA


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

Jayem said:


> That's marketing bull-crap. With a dropper post and 29er-freaking-wheels, if you are endo-ing or having trouble on steep descents, you need to buy more skills, not another bike. I call bull crap of 1.5 degrees mattering at all on a descent given a slammed seat and wheels that big. Consider there are people doing the 100 mile races on hardtails and rigid bikes too. Some suspension makes a giant difference. I understand wanting a little more travel to be a little less punishing over the long haul and when you get tired, I agree, but I don't see any real difference in HTA when things like a dropper makes such a bigger difference for descending ability.


Kind of but NOT exactly...always gonna depend on exact situation. I'd sum it up different and any bike more than some of parts but IMO geo matters greatly. The HTA makes especailly longer faster decents more stable and more forgiving of mistakes, Can you do them on a Supercal, absolutely but add in longer decents with chunk and Ill take the slacker bike if my time on the down matters, certainly helps with fatigue and comfort. Other things like bar width, front tire selection, STA, Stack, amount of sag, etc matter as much. The real reason you see riders doing 100 milers in HTs and rigid bikes is because they make there time up on the climbs and its more efficient choice for them or maybe its there best choice of bikes they own. My days of a doing long races on a HT been over and now with today's FS bikes being so light and efficient no reason to look back on that.

Do agree working on skills first before buying a new bike is generally the right approach.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Laupe said:


> Nice to hear your thoughts, i am skeptical with all the proprietary parts, but since i work at a Trek dealer i hope that can make things easier


It won't make it easier when Trek stops supporting those proprietary parts. Which is the story with nearly every heavily proprietary part out there. Especially suspension-related ones. Try getting service on an early Specialized Brain shock, or Maverick suspension, or the rear suspensions of those old Trek STP softtails (and a few other similar ones from about that time period). Nobody knows how long Trek is going to support the rear suspensions of the Trek Supercaliber frames. If you plan to race it then dump it in a couple years that may not matter to you (though it will probably impact resale value). But for anyone who might want to own the bike for awhile, or downstream from you, it can be very important.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Laupe said:


> Nice to hear your thoughts, maybe you could try upping the travel at the front to get more squish and slacker HTA


That's definitely a good thought and something I had considered. I have the 120mm StepCast on the Niner at the moment but no reason I couldn't move it over to the SuperCal. After I get through Wilmington Whiteface, Telluride 100 and LT100, I may put it on for some riding in the fall to get a feel for it on the SuperCal and if it still feels as balanced as it currently does with 100mm up front. There would also be a small weight penalty vs the SID.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Harold said:


> It won't make it easier when Trek stops supporting those proprietary parts. Which is the story with nearly every heavily proprietary part out there. Especially suspension-related ones. Try getting service on an early Specialized Brain shock, or Maverick suspension, or the rear suspensions of those old Trek STP softtails (and a few other similar ones from about that time period). Nobody knows how long Trek is going to support the rear suspensions of the Trek Supercaliber frames. If you plan to race it then dump it in a couple years that may not matter to you (though it will probably impact resale value). But for anyone who might want to own the bike for awhile, or downstream from you, it can be very important.


Yeah, i agree, but fortunately i can change bike often so i don't need to worry about if Trek stop producing the proprietary parts


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Laupe said:


> Yeah, i agree, but fortunately i can change bike often so i don't need to worry about if Trek stop producing the proprietary parts


I mean, you _could_ do the rest of us a solid and not reward companies for doing dumb **** like this and passing your proprietary bikes along to people who will encounter this problem.

Not to mention, it effectively makes expensive bikes disposable when support for the proprietary **** dries up.


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## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Harold said:


> I mean, you _could_ do the rest of us a solid and not reward companies for doing dumb **** like this and passing your proprietary bikes along to people who will encounter this problem.
> 
> Not to mention, it effectively makes expensive bikes disposable when support for the proprietary **** dries up.


Yes, i _could._ But i like to think that selling my 1 year old mint condition bike for cheap is a good enough favor


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Laupe said:


> Yes, i _could._ But i like to think that selling my 1 year old mint condition bike for cheap is a good enough favor


dunno about other people, but I won't buy a bike with such heavily proprietary parts used, at any price. because I learned my lesson with proprietary trash that can't be serviced.


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