# Geoman discontinued sales of Magicshine



## hilltamer (May 8, 2006)

This has already been discussed in this thread.

Geoman - all Magicshine stuff sold out

But it seems like it deserves it's own thread. If you navigate from the ad on the right side of MTBR which takes you to this link

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_41

This statement is posted on the web site.

*GeoManGear has temporarily discontinued sales of Magicshine lightsets due to our concerns regarding the quality of Magicshine's lithium-ion battery packs. We have determined that the Magicshine battery packs do not meet GeoManGear's high expectations regarding product performance and quality. We are working with the manufacturer to quickly resolve these issues and will begin selling Magicshine products again after we have obtained a high-quality battery pack for our customers. *


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I have had problems with the battery pack. It was probably only used 15 times and never run down very far. Sat over the summer went to use it this year and it only had about 1/2 the capacity. OBVIOUSLY I wasn't the only one with this problem.

GeoManGear did help me out with a good price on a new one, but it must be tremendously annoying for him to deal with.

So what brand/type of cells are places like Cygolite or Lupine using in their packs? With the price that JET wants for their packs, I'd rather replace el cheapo packs with new ones each year.... it would take 5 years of doing that to just get to the price of a high end OEM brand battery pack.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

The Jet A-51 battery pack is $80, much less expensive than the packs for their older lights. I don't know if Jet's 1 year warranty extends to the battery pack too.

$80 is only what, $35 more than a magicshine battery? Seems pretty reasonable to me if they are using high quality cells, which they probably are. Cygolite battery packs are also reasonably priced.


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

I've been using the Dinotte 4 cell endurance battery packs (left) on each of my Magichine 808 lightheads. Can't really tell by the low res image below but the Dinotte specs are identical to those of the Magicshine:

*7.4V, 4400 mAh, 32.56WH*

They retail @ US$70 each. It's been many months and many rides - so far so good.

You can DIY your own for substantially cheaper, i know a bunch on the forum have.


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## my51isfast (Sep 16, 2008)

gticlay said:


> I have had problems with the battery pack. It was probably only used 15 times and never run down very far. Sat over the summer went to use it this year and it only had about 1/2 the capacity. OBVIOUSLY I wasn't the only one with this problem.
> 
> GeoManGear did help me out with a good price on a new one, but it must be tremendously annoying for him to deal with.
> 
> So what brand/type of cells are places like Cygolite or Lupine using in their packs? With the price that JET wants for their packs, I'd rather replace el cheapo packs with new ones each year.... it would take 5 years of doing that to just get to the price of a high end OEM brand battery pack.


Just curious, what battery pack did you have? Also which one did you get? I just picked one up from work and don't want to have issues with them. I have the small rectangular battery, not the water bottle shaped battery. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm in for


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

my51isfast said:


> Just curious, what battery pack did you have? Also which one did you get? I just picked one up from work and don't want to have issues with them. I have the small rectangular battery, not the water bottle shaped battery. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm in for


They are the same thing. The cylindrical housing merely holds the battery pack.

I will add, I've only had an issue with 1 of the 2 MS battery packs holding their charge. The other one is still going strong. Both have been run and charged in the exact same manner since getting them. I run a dual setup on the bars so in terms of run times (always on high in unison) and charging frequency and duration (always 2 packs together), nothing has been done differently.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Chromagftw said:


> They are the same thing. The cylindrical housing merely holds the battery pack.
> 
> I will add, I've only had an issue with 1 of the 2 MS battery packs holding their charge. The other one is still going strong. Both have been run and charged in the exact same manner since getting them. I run a dual setup on the bars so in terms of run times (always on high in unison) and charging frequency and duration (always 2 packs together), nothing has been done differently.


Same here - 2 packs, dipped for protection. 1 OK, one not OK.


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

Chromagftw said:


> I've been using the Dinotte 4 cell endurance battery packs (left) on each of my Magichine 808 lightheads. Can't really tell by the low res image below but the Dinotte specs are identical to those of the Magicshine:
> 
> *7.4V, 4400 mAh, 32.56WH*
> 
> ...


thats good info! what charger do you use?


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

*New light vendor?*

Light and Go now playing in a web browser near you. Hey! Look just below Geoman's ad to your right.

Looks like they're selling the new MS. I wonder if MS decided to stop selling to Geoman and go into the retail business for themselves. :eekster: Good luck dealing with Korea, HK, etc. for warranty returns.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, I decided to go the BAJA Stryker route :thumbsup: Plus I'm building a 7-up light.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

One of my batteries crapped out, but I assumed it was due to being stored frequently in hot conditions (Florida)


The light and batteries were purchased December of 2009.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Looks like the new player has a triple and a quad XPG in their line up. 
Exciting times we live in.:thumbsup:


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

odtexas said:


> Looks like the new player has a triple and a quad XPG in their line up.
> Exciting times we live in.:thumbsup:


Wow, a triple for 119.90 and a quad for 149.90! Someone (besides me) buy one and let us know if its good. ;-)


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

The MS was a real good deal because GEO backed it up. How good of a deal is it if it needs new batteries after a year? And since the 900 lumen claim on the MS is way off, more like 600, then how good of a deal is it knowing the real output of the new 1400 lumen light might be 900 lumens.

Still seems like a good deal but I would NEVER ride w/ just 1 light from this manufacturer. Most of us ride w/ 2 lights though so prolly not an issue here but if you are on a budget then it would be an issue for me and probably anyone else riding w/ 1 light from these people.

We already know they way overstate the lumen output claim and have never changed that. How much confidence does that give you on replacing something in the 3 month warranty period. Forget it after the warranty expires.

However, innocent until proven guilty I guess so if someone buys, let us know your experiences.

MB


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Me too*



gticlay said:


> Same here - 2 packs, dipped for protection. 1 OK, one not OK.


Two packs, both dipped in Plasti-dip. I left one on the charger and forgot about it for a couple months. I went to use it, and it was stone dead. Not sure if it was because of cheap cells, or just leaving them to bake too long with minimal protection.

No biggie.

I just ordered two cells from dealextreme. I cut the connector off the dead battery, soldered up the new cells with the connector, wrapped it in electrical tape (as neatly as I could) and I just dipped them in two coats of Plasti-Dip. It's drying now in my garage. $10 for the cells, $7 for a can of Plasti-Dip. I still have to figure out how to attach a velcro strap to my helmet.

So now, I have a small light 2 cell battery for the helmet light, no loose cords, with 1.5 hours of runtime on high (I usually use low and medium) and the original 4 cell battery for the bar light.


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## my51isfast (Sep 16, 2008)

Chromagftw said:


> They are the same thing. The cylindrical housing merely holds the battery pack.
> 
> I will add, I've only had an issue with 1 of the 2 MS battery packs holding their charge. The other one is still going strong. Both have been run and charged in the exact same manner since getting them. I run a dual setup on the bars so in terms of run times (always on high in unison) and charging frequency and duration (always 2 packs together), nothing has been done differently.


I guess I should have figured. A friend of mine actually has the one with the housing...didn't know you could open it...love MTBR for good info


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## kkjellquist (Oct 31, 2006)

Geez...glad I didn't wait for Geoman's stock and I have one on the way from DealExtreme for less money and free shipping. Yes, I know I'm rolling the dice but most people I know with MS lights did not get them from Geoman and they have been fine. I'll run the battery packs til they die and DIY new one's as needed.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

I just re-tested the two magicshine lights I bought almost exactly a year ago. I tested them when they were new. One lasted 3:40 and the other 3:30. Now a year later they lasted 2:30 and 1:45 respectively. I bought the lights just to play with them and as loaner lights. The batteries have been charged a grand total of 5 times and were stored at 50% charge in a cool location. Truly terrible results. 

Since I was testing, I did some of my DIY lights/packs at the same time. A 5 year old pack that has probably been cycled a 100 times lasted 3 hours (3:30 when new). A 1 year old pack with about 20 cycles lasted 3:40 (3:45 when new).


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

nick d said:


> thats good info! what charger do you use?


Currently, I am using the old Dinotte one that came with my original 400L tail light.



odtexas said:


> Looks like the new player has a triple and a quad XPG in their line up.
> Exciting times we live in.:thumbsup:


Are these the ones that Eltehs is soon to release?


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## avlad (Oct 19, 2008)

KingOfTheHill said:


> Lig I wonder if MS decided to stop selling to Geoman and go into the retail business for themselves


I think, the main issue with MS Li Ion battery is, that MS did not have UN38.3 test passed, and as so, can not be shipped with air transport to US.
Clarification from Batteryspace:
http://www.batteryspace.com/faq.aspx

There are also new US shipping regulations for Lithium Ion batteries, that significantly increase shipping cost:
http://www.batteryspace.com/faq-shipping.aspx
Currently the only option for Geoman to receive MS batteries - ship them as Class 9 Haz Mat shipment wih ground/sea transport - it significantly increase overall cost and delivery time


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## AZ_Wook (Feb 14, 2010)

About a year ago I bought two of the 900 lumen kits (light/battery/charger). When new, both were 3+ hours of use. Now after ~1 year and ~10 recharges, one is just as good as day one and the other will no longer hold a charge. With each recharge, the run time decreased, 2 hours, 1.5 hours, <1 hour, 30 minutes and so on. 

Both batteries have been treated the same, that is, stored with a charge on them and not left on the charger for more than ~5-6 hours at a time. The batteries were sometimes in my truck in the summertime (in AZ) for a day. Heat is the only 'mistreatment' I can think of.

Just handed off the bad MS battery to a local BatteriesPlus shop. They're replacing the cells in the bad battery and wrapping it back up for ~$65. Hope these new cells (and the old, good battery) last a while.


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## newportl (Apr 20, 2010)

Same issues here with batteries - I've got two MS900 kits ordered in August. Both of them are down to one hour on high. I ride about twice a week. I bought another battery from them a few weeks ago and it still runs about 2:30. 

The cs is great, but at this point I just wish I had shelled out 300 for a nice Lupine.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I haven't been here for a while, so I'm a little out of the loop.

Has Geo really stopped selling the MS altogether, or is he just not shipping them outside of the US (that's what his site currently says)????


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

fightnut said:


> I haven't been here for a while, so I'm a little out of the loop.
> 
> Has Geo really stopped selling the MS altogether, or is he just not shipping them outside of the US (that's what his site currently says)????


Right underneath the message about international shipping:



> GeoManGear has temporarily discontinued sales of Magicshine lightsets due to our concerns regarding the quality of Magicshine's lithium-ion battery packs. We have determined that the Magicshine battery packs do not meet GeoManGear's high expectations regarding product performance and quality. We are working with the manufacturer to quickly resolve these issues and will begin selling Magicshine products again after we have obtained a high-quality battery pack for our customers.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I realized the problem, I was going in through my bookmark. If you go in through his banner above, you see the newest info.

Thanks.

Well, those Light And Go lights are looking pretty good right now:thumbsup: 
I'm confused by their site though, where are they based, and what is shipping $ to USA?

*Edit - I don't like that Light And Go doesn't have an e-mail address (at least I don't see one). I wanted to contact them to ask a couple questions.
Also, I wanted to subscribe to their newsletter, but they want SO much info (address, phone #, etc), I should only have to give them my e-mail address.


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

This issue doesn't overly concern me. I don't expect perfection when going the generic or factory direct route, rather I fully expect the occasional problem (lack of warranty, quality control, whatever).

Anyway, I have a MS1400 on the way, and was wondering if there were any compatible batter packs built up with the new-ish *2900 mAh *18650s?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Well, those Light And Go lights are looking pretty good right now:thumbsup:
> I'm confused by their site though, where are they based, and what is shipping $ to USA?


It looks like the Light and Go lights are made by the same company that makes the Magicshine lights. I think there is a very good chance the batteries will offer similar performance.

Which raises an interesting question. It's going to be hard for anyone to really know if the problem is fixed when the manufacturer "claims" that the batteries are improved.

Personally, I think they would have to offer a longer warranty on the batteries as a way to show that they have truly been improved. That would need to include a guarantee on the runtime after a year long warranty.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

Here's what a WHOIS search brings up for lightandgo.com:

Welcome to KICA, Inc. dba DomainCA.COM's WHOIS Service

Domain Name: LIGHTANDGO.COM
Domain Status: ACTIVE
Registrar: Korea Information Certificate Authority, Inc. dba DomainCA.com
Referral URL: http://www.DomainCA.com

Registrant:
INS
SIncheon 4-dong Dong-gu
502 Success B/D 348-2
Daegu, 701829
KR

Administrative, Technical, Billing Contact:
Chae Hee Young [email protected]
SIncheon 4-dong Dong-gu
502 Success B/D 348-2
Daegu, 701829
KR
(TEL) +82.537440947, (FAX)

Domain Registration Date....: 2010-09-07 GMT.
Domain Expiration Date......: 2011-09-07 GMT.
Domain Last Updated Date....: 2010-09-07 08:38:36 GMT.

Domain Name Servers in listed order:
NS.NSO2NET.COM 211.233.11.180
NS.O2NET.CO.KR 211.233.11.182


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

MtbMacgyver said:


> It looks like the Light and Go lights are made by the same company that makes the Magicshine lights. I think there is a very good chance the batteries will offer similar performance.


The Light and Go page seems to be down right now. I emailed them last night and it bounced. It seems like they are having a bit of technical trouble. Blame it on the MTBR ad. 

Anyway, I don't think they are the same company as Magicshine. LandG had a link to two suppliers on their webpage. One to Magicshine (based in China) and the other was for another company, Way something or other (based in Korea), that looks to be the manufacturer of the silver colored triple, single, quad, and P7 lights.

The Way* company sounded pretty good. Their webpage said they were focused on warmer color bin LEDs as a key feature that I haven't heard from many manufacturers. The Fireball triple looked like a nice light if there is also a tighter beam option for the helmet (although the Lupine/Magicshine style mount would have to go). I'm curious if they are using standard MR11 boards and optics and if a Cute-3 would fit?


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Looks like the light and go batteries use the same connector, and the charger even looks the same as the Magicshine ones.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Homebrew said:


> Anyway, I don't think they are the same company as Magicshine. LandG had a link to two suppliers on their webpage. One to Magicshine (based in China) and the other was for another company, Way something or other (based in Korea), that looks to be the manufacturer of the silver colored triple, single, quad, and P7 lights.


Yes, I saw that but the Owlet and MJ836 seem to share the same body and mounts and as Jim311 noted the connectors and chargers seem to all be the same. There seems to be some common heritage to all these lights. The specs for the 4-cell battery packs are exactly the same as well.

Since Wonder Bike seems to sell all kinds of bike accessories, I wonder if they are just spec'ing lights that are made by the magicshine factory.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Looks like the Quad Foride comes from China. That is if you can believe things you read on the internet.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

whattheheck said:


> Rumour has it, you can trade-up your MS with a BajaDesigns Stryker. Contact BD, send in your unreliable/crapped out MS and get $100 off the Stryker. Lifetime warranty on the light. Battery is built to MIL specs. They have been making lights for a long time for much burlier applications then mountainbiking.
> $298-$100 = $198 for one of the best lights on the market. This is a NO BRAINER!
> Even at $298, you are worry free!


That Stryker is a really nice light.....


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

It's weird GeoMan hasn't chimed in, other than the update on his website (which is only available if you click through the MTBR ad). I'm sure he doesn't want to open a can o' warranty/refund worms, but people would like to know how warranty issues will be covered if batteries go bad during the first 90 days. As some have mentioned, emails to GeoMan seem to not be responded to. FWIW, when a MS I bought from GM last year mysteriously became a 3 mode light, he took care of it right away.


That Jet A-51 keeps lookin' better and better. Curiosity got the best of me so I'm on the waiting list.


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## osmarandsara (Jun 26, 2006)

KingOfTheHill said:


> It's .... but people would like to know how warranty issues will be covered if batteries go bad during the first 90 days. .


don't want to speak for Geoman, but the company recently replaced my brand new battery which was still under the 90 day warranty.....the replacement is working OK.....


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

osmarandsara said:


> don't want to speak for Geoman, but the company recently replaced my brand new battery which was still under the 90 day warranty.....the replacement is working OK.....


Not a week or two ago he replaced a light for a friend of mine no questions asked. I don't think he's disappeared off the planet but if he has nothing new to bring into the threads, why would he post?


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## rockymtnrider (Apr 29, 2007)

been having the same issue with my batteries. year old and half life. Hope they figure out something soon.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

...my lights are going from green, to yellow, to red within an hour....

looking into DIY....


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

I think the real reason they are discontinued is liability. My friends battery spontaneously combusted and almost burned down his house. His wife happened to come home for lunch and found the fire. It was not charging or plugged into the light.

I am no longer storing my lights in the house.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

tdailey said:


> I think the real reason they are discontinued is liability. My friends battery spontaneously combusted and almost burned down his house. His wife happened to come home for lunch and found the fire. It was not charging or plugged into the light.
> 
> I am no longer storing my lights in the house.


srsly?....or are you full of chit.

was it a MS battery?


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

tdailey said:


> I think the real reason they are discontinued is liability. My friends battery spontaneously combusted and almost burned down his house. His wife happened to come home for lunch and found the fire. It was not charging or plugged into the light.
> 
> I am no longer storing my lights in the house.


haha nice scare tactics. that stryker deal sounds sweet btw going to have to look into it especially since my ms was ony 70 dollars ^^


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Remember the laptops catching on fire a few years back???
Same issue. 
The lithium ion, or lithium polymer are capable of doing bad things.
I charge mine in a metal bucket and they usually stay there unless being used.
Failure is rare, but can be spectacular when it happens.:thumbsup: 
This is the reason behind the ground only shipping and such of the batteries.
Realize our laptops and cell phones still use these same types of batteries, as well as most modern bike light systems.

Not to mention the nice electric cars they want us to drive are going to have hundreds of these batteries all packed into a nice case under your car seats.........................


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

Seriously. Happened about 2 1/2 weeks ago.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Another MS battery fire story*

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12671743&highlight=flaming

***


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

were they the old style batteries or the new ones sealed in the aluminum tubes I could imagine the old style doing it, why wait 2 weeks to tell us something as important as this??? got pics?? 
I store and charge on a metal shelf with no flammables near by just in case


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*This sounds plausable*

Posted in the bikeradar thread -



> Think I know what may have caused this; looks like the same thing may be happening to mine...
> 
> While pulling out the plug last night to plug in the charger, I noticed that I've damaged the cable (on the battery side) where it enters the plug; the plug is such a tight fit that it's quite hard not to do this if you unplug it every night. The insulation has split, and I can see bare copper inside.
> 
> ...


***


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

one guy burns a house and the other guy burns his backpack and nopics? btw pics of a finger dont count -_-. sorry i dont believe everything i read on forums ^^ but if your going to accuse something of having catastrophic failure you better have some proof.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

tdailey said:


> My friends battery spontaneously combusted and almost burned down his house. *It was not charging or plugged into the light*.


Or at least that's what they told the insurance company, because otherwise they'd be liable for leaving it unattended which it tells you NOT to do.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

FreeGravey said:


> one guy burns a house and the other guy burns his backpack and nopics? btw pics of a finger dont count -_-. sorry i dont believe everything i read on forums ^^ but if your going to accuse something of having catastrophic failure you better have some proof.


Oh brother, the potential problem is well documented with lithium batteries. Deny all you want, but you get what you pay for.


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

we are talking about the magicshine battery here. i might as well stop using my cellphone/xbox controller/tv remote etc since according to you all lion batteries blow up... -_-


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Anyone remember  this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
October 17, 2006
Release #07-008 Light & Motion Recall Hotline: (831) 645-1538
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908

Light & Motion Recalls Bicycle Light Batteries for Fire and Burn Hazards
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the manufacturers named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer product. Consumers should stop using recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed. It is illegal to resell or attempt to resell a recalled consumer product.

Name of Product: ARC Lithium Ion Bicycle Light Batteries

Units: About 1,700

Light Manufacturer/Battery Reseller: Light & Motion, of Monterey, Calif.

Battery Manufacturer: GP Batteries International Ltd., of Singapore

Battery Importer: Gold Peak Industries (North America), Inc. of San Diego, Calif.

Hazard: The battery can overheat, posing a fire or burn hazard to users.

Incidents/Injuries: No incidents or injuries have been reported.

Description: The recalled batteries are found in Light & Motion 2004 ARC Li-Ion HID lighting systems. The lights are black with "ARC" and "LIGHT & MOTION" written in yellow letters. The recall includes only batteries with a manufacturer date code of 1003 or 1103. The date code is stamped on the bottom of the battery and "LIGHT & MOTION" is printed on the side of the battery.

Sold at: Authorized bicycle dealers nationwide from November 2003 through October 2004 for about $500.

Manufactured in: China

Remedy: Consumers should stop using the lights immediately and return the battery to Light & Motion for a free replacement.

Consumer Contact: Call Light & Motion collect at (831) 645-1538 between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. PT Monday through Friday, or log on to the company's Web site at https://www.bikelights.com/


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

How about  this one.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 18, 2008
Release #09-045 Firm's Recall Hotline: (866) 822-7694
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908

Lithium-Ion Batteries Used with Bicycle Lights Recalled By DiNotte Lighting Due to Burn Hazard
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the firm named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer product. Consumers should stop using recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed. It is illegal to resell or attempt to resell a recalled consumer product.

Name of Product: DiNotte Lighting Lithium-Ion batteries used with bicycle lights

Units: About 1,700

Manufacturer: AA Portable Power Corp., of Richmond, Calif.

Distributor: DiNotte Lighting, of Hampton, NH

Hazard: A loose wiring connection and improper venting can cause the battery to overheat, posing a burn hazard to consumers.

Incidents/Injuries: None reported.

Description: DiNotte Lighting Lithium-Ion battery with nylon bags are used with DiNotte 5W Li-Ion bicycle lights and DiNotte 3 LED police lights. The DiNotte logo is printed on the battery cable connector.

Sold at: Bicycle and recreation stores nationwide and by Internet retailers from February 2006 through March 2007 for between $200 and $400.

Manufactured in: United States and China

Remedy: Consumers should immediately stop using the battery and contact the company to receive a free replacement battery.

Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact DiNotte Lighting at (866) 822-7694 between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, visit the firm's Web site at www.dinottelighting.com, or email the firm at [email protected]


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

FreeGravey - Just signed up just to post in this thread???




****


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

yes i did so what? this is ridiculous people claim MS batteries are catching fire so i ask for proof and all you guys do is post the first links that popup on google. we all know of the risks of batteries catching fire but we are talking about magic shine here...


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> Oh brother, the potential problem is well documented with lithium batteries. Deny all you want, but you get what you pay for.


I think people paid plenty for their Dinotte and Lights in Motion systems which both had battery recalls.........


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

FreeGravey said:


> yes i did so what? this is ridiculous people claim MS batteries are catching fire so i ask for proof and all you guys do is post the first links that popup on google. we all know of the risks of batteries catching fire but we are talking about magic shine here...


Ok, it hasn't been proven on this thread if they blow up, or if they just suck for some other reason, but what we do know is.... that they suck.



Geoman said:


> We have determined that the Magicshine battery packs do not meet GeoManGear's high expectations regarding product performance and quality.


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## lamb (Sep 18, 2008)

This news just sucks, I just got my 900 setup last friday. Talk about bad timing, oh well I will just use it till its dead then maybe look into the stryker.


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

These are of the house. All his bike equipment was in the closet. I think I have a picture of what is left of the light at home. I will try to load it tonight.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

odtexas said:


> I think people paid plenty for their Dinotte and Lights in Motion systems which both had battery recalls.........


1 point for you!

Same can be said for Dell laptop batteries etc. However, when you deal with big companies that actually do R&D and test their products and have quality standards that go beyond finding the cheapest option, the odds of a problem are much smaller. It still happens, but much less often then when you buy cheap.


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

are you seriously quoting a reseller? their could be tons of reasons why he stopped selling them kinda weird that he hasnt posted in any of these threads. btw iv had mine for around 6 months charging 2-3 times a week and still last around 3 hours.... give me another 6 months if it craps out or blows up my garage ^^ i might agree with you guys. EDIT: lol i got owned QQ strykr here i come


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

All you need to do is replace the battery when it goes. Why scrap the rest of the light? $40 will get you a decent battery to allow you to keep using your MagicShine.

I know that's not what we were counting on when we all bought these lights, but at least we're not totally screwed. Instead of $90, we're looking at $130 for a pretty bright light. As far as I'm concerned at least it's quite a bit brighter, and certainly more durable than the NiteRider HID it replaced.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

smilinsteve said:


> but what we do know is.... that they suck.


No, what we *know* is that some are having problems with holding a charge after a while. What we *don't know*, is how are they being handled/treated by these people?

I can tell you that so far, mine is working fine on it's second season. Who know's, maybe it will crap out tomorrow, but I can tell you that I do what I can to take care of it.

1. I don't leave it in my hot trunk all summer.
2. I don't leave it in my freezing garage all winter.
3. I don't charge it unattended.
4. I unplug the charger from the wall, and the battery from the charger as soon as the light goes green.
5. I don't leave the battery plugged into the light unless I'm using it.
6. I turn the light off when we stop to regroup or rest (that's more about keeping the lighthead from overheatingt and conserving the battery more then "careing" for the battery, but you get the idea)


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

lamb said:


> This news just sucks, I just got my 900 setup last friday. Talk about bad timing, oh well I will just use it till its dead then maybe look into the stryker.


??? First of all, you haven't even had a problem yet, why does this "suck"?
Second of all, even if you do happen to have a problem, it's only the battery. There's another thread on here that discusses all the other battery options we have. 
And compared to many other manufactures prices for replacement batteries, this is really not that big of a deal.

Read my post above about taking proper care of your battery and _maybe_ you'll limit your chances of a problem in the first place.

In any event, get a second/back-up light, even just a flashlight. This applies whether you run a cheap Magicshine, or a $700 light, ALWAYS have a back-up light with you.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Was this the old style battery with no impact protection or one of the new ones in the tube??? you could imagine how easy it would be to damage and short a cell on the old ones
the new ones not so easy


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> All you need to do is replace the battery when it goes. Why scrap the rest of the light? $40 will get you a decent battery to allow you to keep using your MagicShine.
> 
> I know that's not what we were counting on when we all bought these lights, but at least we're not totally screwed. Instead of $90, we're looking at $130 for a pretty bright light. As far as I'm concerned at least it's quite a bit brighter, and certainly more durable than the NiteRider HID it replaced.


This is exactly what I'm thinking.


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

I was not aware of a new style with impact protection. Anyone have a picture of the new one? I wonder if we will be able to send in the old ones for a replacment?

Despite what happened, I still use my light every week (now that it is dark early). I have had no problems with mine. I will just not store it in my house any more.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

the newer style is in a aluminum tube and has padding on the insides of each cap the old style is just shrink wrapped batteries


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

KingOfTheHill said:


> FWIW, when a MS I bought from GM last year mysteriously became a 3 mode light, he took care of it right away.


Maybe you can answer this question for me(or anyone else).....

I recently received my MS900. It's my first light so I am new to this thing. My light only has three modes: High/medium(or low)/and flashing. I take it from your post that this is not correct....right? It's almost like it jumps from high to low, and there is no medium setting.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

did you get it from Geoman or DX if you got it from geoman it should have 5 settings the dx lights vary http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44459


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## RBrady (Jan 20, 2009)

I just got a brand new MS head unit from Geo Man today to replace one of my four that had a cracked plastic base. No questions asked. For the record I have 2 MS 900 that I use 4-5 days a week and 2 that I loan out on a regular basis. Very happy w Geoman and Magicshine as far as performance over the past year and a half. Especially after having numerous issues w my numerous night rider lights over the years. Oh I almost forgot, one of those night riders almost caught my house on fire while charging unattended. So maybe its NOT just Magicshine lights


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

RBrady said:


> I. Oh I almost forgot, one of those night riders almost caught my house on fire while charging unattended. So maybe its NOT just Magicshine lights


I agree this seams to be blown out of proportion I could see if one in a hundred lights were failing and starting fires but this amount seems your chances are pretty slim to none, Use them just don't abuse them


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## giantpedaler (Oct 14, 2010)

So are these lights going to be for sale anytime soon, or is there and word on fixing the problem?........


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

giantpedaler said:


> So are these lights going to be for sale anytime soon, or is there and word on fixing the problem?........


just a suggestion 
buy a light head, cord, and charger from Geoman and get a battery from 
http://www.all-battery.com/74vli-ionbatterypacksandmodules.aspx 
you will have everything you need and will not have to worry about the battery. that is a least till Geo gets this resolved with MS then I would buy a kit from him you cannot beat his customer service 
Ya got to feel for the guy for the money this is a hell of a light .some people just expect to much,,sure you are going to have some bugs when you try to produce a light at this price, 
If you expect perfection expect to pay for it $$ and its not like Geoman has not stood behind what he sells I have yet to hear a thread i got [email protected] by geoman all i hear is how he helped people out after warranties were up.
I'm sure this is killing him financially I know of half a dozen guys that were ready to pull the trigger and get some MS lights now he is not moving any till this is resolved. remember its night riding season and this is when he would make his bank.


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

Here is a picture of the light since I said I would post it...


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## lamb (Sep 18, 2008)

fightnut said:


> ??? First of all, you haven't even had a problem yet, why does this "suck"?
> Second of all, even if you do happen to have a problem, it's only the battery. There's another thread on here that discusses all the other battery options we have.
> And compared to many other manufactures prices for replacement batteries, this is really not that big of a deal.
> 
> ...


Well, I am not exactly thrilled to see a product I just received less than a week ago has now been pulled due to problems. That is where I found the term "sucks" very fitting. I will try to follow your listing and hope that I am problem free. Even though I already screwed up and left it on the charger over night. But you are right, there are other battery options out there for pretty cheap vs buying a whole new system. I was thinking about getting another system anyway to run two lights or for backup.


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## rick222 (Oct 26, 2010)

tdailey said:


> Here is a picture of the light since I said I would post it...


So it looks like the light was connected or charging at the time. I thought in a previous post it was not charging or connected at the time? Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to determine what exactly happened for everyone's sake.


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## deano machineo (Dec 20, 2009)

Is the Magic Shine unit from Deal Extreme the same as Geo was selling? Geez for 77$ I think I'll give it a try. There has been a lot of chatter on the MS unit. Can someone bottom line it all for me; Battery good? bad? Crap shoot? Crap shoot on the whole unit?
Im of the school of thought; you get what you pay for. I could see my way to buying a Lupine. I like quality and nice stuff. But are these lights in any way comparable?


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

So, has there been any information on a recall or any other consumer corrective action by Geoman?
I know this sucks, but one of my batteries is failing already, with ~ 15 hours of run time.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

I have to laugh when someone else in the light business posts here at the expense of another reseller.
Yes I have a Magic Shine and so far I have had good luck with it.
The Amoeba light was on my short list for another light when the cash came free but due to his posts trashing other products it is now out of consideration.


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## tdailey (May 7, 2007)

This was the older style battery (battery in shrink wrap) and it was not plugged into the light or charging at the time. It was stored in a duffel bag in the closet. The last photo posted, my buddy picked up the light and placed it on the chair to take the picture.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

richwolf said:


> I have to laugh when someone else in the light business posts here at the expense of another reseller.
> Yes I have a Magic Shine and so far I have had good luck with it.
> The Amoeba light was on my short list for another light when the cash came free but due to his posts trashing other products it is now out of consideration.


I don't think Scar bashed anyone. He simply posted a link and copied and pasted to clarify what someone else had posted.


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

^^^ I'll have to agree with that. 

Scar has always been forthcoming in his dealings and his reputation as such is reflected by those here on the forum who've been around for a while and know him, customers or otherwise. 

I'm glad Geoman stepped up to bat and laid down the law with MS. To me it says a lot. Yea, I may have a faulty battery but at the end of the day, he's doing what's needed as a dealer to protect his customer base from a proliferating problem. That's a +1 in my books.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Chromagftw said:


> ^^^ I'll have to agree with that.
> 
> Scar has always been forthcoming in his dealings and his reputation as such is reflected by those here on the forum who've been around for a while and know him, customers or otherwise.
> 
> I'm glad Geoman stepped up to bat and laid down the law with MS. To me it says a lot. Yea, I may have a faulty battery but at the end of the day, he's doing what's needed as a dealer to protect his customer base from a proliferating problem. That's a +1 in my books.


I disagree. I look at it as bashing. Why are the other light makers not chiming in?

Sell your product based upon it's merits not by bashing others.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

richwolf - I am intersted in what the actual failure is also as I use Li-Ion batteries as well. The lack of GeoMan (the business, not a person) giving any information for the halt of sellling MagicShine batteries or product with batteries is what is generating all the interest and second guessing. 

The post about the fire in closet was the first I had heard of catstrophic failure of the batteries. Heard about moisture problems and connector problems, but never fire. Sounded pretty serious. I did a search and found another mention for a MagicShine battery fire and posted so as to add to the lack of information being released.

I am very sorry that you mistook my posting of the new information that I found as "trashing" MagicShine. 


***


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

scar said:


> The lack of GeoMan giving any information for the halt of sellling MagicShine batteries or product with batteries is what is generating all the interest and second guessing.


What little I do know about the situation strikes me as a typical pissing match between supplier and distributor, and that the actual "problem" has been blown way out of proportion (I know that's rare on the internet).


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## Ziemas (Apr 11, 2005)

It's also possible that Geoman is keeping quiet on advice of their lawyer. It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried to take legal action due to a faulty battery or charger.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Ziemas said:


> It's also possible that Geoman is keeping quiet on advice of their lawyer. It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried to take legal action due to a faulty battery or charger.


Yeah I'm having emotional disturbances, stress, and lack of sleep just thinking about the possibilities....


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## MrRogers1935 (Jul 27, 2010)

This is total BS. Money is tight for many around here. Not 2 weeks ago I shelled out 250$ worth of MS gear from Geoman and now this. I recall some line on his website about the importance of satisfying customers or something of that nature. Maybe he could start by keeping us in the loop about whats going on. 

Looks like I'll have to order another lighting system at some point in the future but it wont be from Geoman.


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

^^^

another poor guys suckerd by a middle man if you are going to be chinese crap get it straight from china and screw the middle man... thats what i have been doing for awhile now QQ


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## MrRogers1935 (Jul 27, 2010)

FreeGravey said:


> ^^^
> 
> another poor guys suckerd by a middle man if you are going to be chinese crap get it straight from china and screw the middle man... thats what i have been doing for awhile now QQ


Want to try again in English my friend. How exactly am I trying to "be chinese crap."

If you can't complete a full sentence than stfu.

thanks


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## ireland57 (Sep 11, 2009)

Of the 4 batteries I brought for the magicshine light 3 have failed altogether and one is a "blinkie" i.e. it turns on and off when it's good and ready. They're 13 mths old.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Update on my 2 MS units and 2 riding buddies MS units.

I bought 2 MS 900's. To date, one light head fell apart inside but replaced. Currently, one dead battery, both light heads w/ frayed wires and both batteries w/ frayed wires. 1 yr and approx 2 mos old.

Friend bought 1 MS. Battery no good on arrival. Replaced and currently working. 6 mos old.

Other Friend bought 1 MS. 4 mos old. Light head quit working yesterday for no reason. We couldn't figure it out. Being replaced though as we speak.

Thankfully bought from GEO as they have taken care of us. 

So, my 2 lights cost 180 total w/ delivery. Currently, there not reliable anymore and pretty much not use-able either due to the frayed wires. Basically, a waste of money.

Also own the Dinotte 800L/400L combo. 2+ years old and used way more than the MS's. No problems. Working great.

I'm not trying to compare the lights as the MS's are far less expensive. 

At this point though, I feel like I wasted 180 bucks.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Build battery packs if you need them. 
Fix your frayed wires. 
Man up guys.  
If get a flat on your bike you fix it, I hope.:skep: 
About the same amount of intelligence is needed to replace a battery pack. 
If you can adjust your deraillers then you are probably smart enough to trouble shoot any other problem you will ever have with the MS lights.


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

Ziemas said:


> It's also possible that Geoman is keeping quiet on advice of their lawyer. It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried to take legal action due to a faulty battery or charger.


legal action on a $90 item?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

jbsteven said:


> legal action on a $90 item?


A $90 item that burns down your house?


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> A $90 item that burns down your house?


are you just making things up?

ahh, yes the 10000 what if's. What if the MS unit got to hot when I left it on in my car and the car burned to the ground, let's sue the retailer.

please


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

jbsteven said:


> are you just making things up?
> 
> ahh, yes the 10000 what if's. What if the MS unit got to hot when I left it on in my car and the car burned to the ground, let's sue the retailer.
> 
> please


Its not called making things up, its called anticipating the worst case. The possibility of legal action is hypothetical. Any legal advice to stay quiet about this problem is hypothetical. The advice would be based on possible hypothetical negative outcomes. that's what lawyers do. Pretty simple; I'm surprised I have to explain it.


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> Its not called making things up, its called anticipating the worst case. The possibility of legal action is hypothetical. Any legal advice to stay quiet about this problem is hypothetical. The advice would be based on possible hypothetical negative outcomes. that's what lawyers do. Pretty simple; I'm surprised I have to explain it.


yep, the old What if's


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## FreeGravey (Nov 10, 2010)

MrRogers1935 said:


> Want to try again in English my friend. How exactly am I trying to "be chinese crap."
> 
> If you can't complete a full sentence than stfu.
> 
> thanks


buying an 80 dollar light made in china that is supposed to compete with 400 dollar lights = chinese crap. all im saying if your are going to get chinese junk get it straight from china and dont pay a US reseller for it.btw i also got a ms900 but i got it from DX for around 70 and its lasted for a few months allready so i think i got my 70 dollars worth of light ^^. on a side note GO STRYKR! ordered mine a couple days ago.

just had to edit this in... LOL at all the people that justified paying more for the same product wheres your warranty and support now? ROFL! btw hard to see geoman coming back from this.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

> so i think i got my 70 dollars worth of light ^^.


What the hell is this ^^ ??


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Truly Trolltastic.........:thumbsup: 
FreeGravey 
*Add FreeGravey to Your Ignore List *

Forum Info Contact Info 
Join Date: 11-10-2010 
PostsTotal Posts: 8 (4.04 posts per day) 
Additional Information Group Memberships 
From 
(City, State or Country):
*dont think so *
Year started riding:
*maybe * 
Favorite type of riding 
(can choose more than:
*Road* 
Favorite Trail:
*um no *
Bike Setup:
*road bike 
*


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

FreeGravey said:


> buying an 80 dollar light made in china that is supposed to compete with 400 dollar lights = chinese crap. all im saying if your are going to get chinese junk get it straight from china


I bought my "Chinese junk" from a "US" based reseller because I knew when I would get the product... and if I had a problem I could contact someone "State Side" about it.

And now is the light "Chinese crap". The battery is "iffy" but the light rocks (or seems to so far). If you are worried about the battery, do a DIY replacement bettery with better Cells.

I can buy a light and back up cells for a new battery pack for a total less than $120. Which means I can buy a new Magic Shine, each season for the next 3 seasons, still have less into it total than the name brand lights. (That is 6 battery packs and 3 lights) Will all the batteries still work? Most likely not, but do you think your name brand lights battery pack will last 3 full seasons without degradation? Most Likely not.

The MS user, would most like have 2 lights for the bars and 1 for the helmet and most likely enough good batteries left to run them. And still has $40.00 more in his pocket!

While the "Good Light" owner still only has 1 light and 1 battery (if that is still any good).

I will give you that level of performance is not truelly on par with the "Good Lights" but if you compare level of product vs level of cost and there is a clear winner and the "name brands" are NOT it.

Not only that but GeoManGear has NOT stopped selling all MagicShine products (atleast to my knowledge), he has only stopped selling the "Kits" that came with the battery/charger. So if you don't mind a Little DIY you can get a decent light for $45.00 then build your only battery pack and buy charger for it.

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=143

If given the chance/need I will buy another MagicShine and if GeoManGear is selling them, I will buy it there!

GeoManGear stopped selling a product that did not perform to his standards and you guys are given him "h3ll" over it. What gives? The guy did the right thing and you are upset?

I will stand by my previous statements:
GeoManGear ROCKS! Thank you for my MagicShine!

If my Magic Shine battery dies I will find a replacement that is an upgrade! If by some weird chance my light fails I will call GeoManGear!


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## rearviewmirror (Jun 14, 2006)

rick222 said:


> So it looks like the light was connected or charging at the time. I thought in a previous post it was not charging or connected at the time? Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to determine what exactly happened for everyone's sake.


I don't buy for one second that it wasn't charging or plugged in at the time of the fire.

Lets summarize this thread.

MagicShine uses cheap cells.
Batteries are inherently dangerous, should be handled/charged w/ caution.
Once the MS battery dies, a new pack can be used for very little money (quality cells).
Use a Lipo Sack for charging to reduce/remove risk of fire while charging.


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## Ziemas (Apr 11, 2005)

jbsteven said:


> legal action on a $90 item?


When has the cost of an item ever stopped someone looking for a payout? People sue for all sorts of stupid reasons, and lawyers advise people being sued to keep quiet. It;s totally plausible that's why Geoman isn't commenting on the battery issue.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Ziemas said:


> When has the cost of an item every stopped someone looking for a payout?


I think the hot McDonalds coffee was around a buck


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

rearviewmirror said:


> I don't buy for one second that it wasn't charging or plugged in at the time of the fire.


Ditto.


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## MOMtbiker (Jun 20, 2009)

Its unreal some of the CRYBABIES that are on here. Some of which dont even own the Magicshine but just have to join in and stick there nose in.

I own 3 and the oldest is 14 months. It has over 100 charges and is still going strong.

For the money they have been a GREAT value. I think some of the problems are self induced. Why do I say that?... because one of my buddies also has 3 lights and one of his lights he abused and did what the instructions said *not *to do. He ran the batteries down completely several times. He had battery problems shortly after. He will even tell you that he is most likely at fault. These batteries are very particular. As far as the light itself, I do not know how people are having so many problems with it. I think its a solidly built light head. I have a Nightrider that I used for years that isnt built any better and I paid $400 for that light. (yes, it finally died on me after 3 years of use). Magicshine lights are priced great and are so affordable you can own several and have that important backup out on the trail.

Keep the posts more positive and give Geoman some credit and some time to get this issue straightened out.


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## giantpedaler (Oct 14, 2010)

I have respect for some that stops selling something because he thinks its unsafe, not because he is made to stop selling it. When he gets them figured out ill be ordering mine.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

MOMtbiker said:


> Its unreal some of the CRYBABIES that are on here. Some of which dont even own the Magicshine but just have to join in and stick there nose in.
> 
> I own 3 and the oldest is 14 months. It has over 100 charges and is still going strong.
> 
> ...


+1:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Hill-Pumper (Apr 30, 2010)

Looks like GeoMan may be considering dumping MagicShine if they don't get things straightened out. Found this on his present listing for for MagicShines.

GeoManGear has temporarily discontinued sales of Magicshine lightsets due to our concerns regarding the quality of Magicshine's lithium-ion battery packs. We are working with the manufacturer to quickly resolve these issues and will begin selling Magicshine products again after we have obtained a high-quality battery pack for our customers. If you wish to be notified when we have new Magicshine or comparable lightsets available, please click here to place your name on our waiting list.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Rakuman said:


> +1:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


+2:thumbsup: :thumbsup: still loving my ms. The cheapo battery charger does not help with battery life i am sure.

Long thread i might have missed it but did anyone also mention that storing lithium ions with a full charge can cut battery life dramatically when combine with heat just above room temperature. Not sure if Lith-ion burn like Lipo but still funny to watch. I alway charge and store my battery in a metal can unless i know its dry and only at 40%.


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## rockhop (Mar 22, 2006)

> If you wish to be notified when we have new Magicshine or comparable lightsets available, please click here


Hmmm what would be a comparable lightset? I will need something soon.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

_Warning

* CAUTION: when working with Li-ion cells, they are very sensitive to charging characteristics and may explode if mis-handled.
* User should have enough knowledge on Li-Ion rechargeable batteries in charging, discharging, and assembly before use.
* Put the batteries in fire-proof container
* Do not put batteries on wood surface or carpet when charging
* Never leave battery un-attended when charging
* We are not responsible for damage if there is any modification of the batteries in form, shape, or made into packs
* We are not responsible for any damage caused by misuse or mishandling of these Li-Ion batteries_

I would think that charging in a closet or even storing in a closet is not a good idea.
I for one will now change my charging habits.
If I sold lights with Li-Ion batteries I would make sure that all my customers were aware of the proper charging techniques and precautions.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*wow!*



tdailey said:


> Seriously. Happened about 2 1/2 weeks ago.


I thought the industry generally solved this issue a few years ago by using protected cells. There is a circuit in there that detects over current on each cell (short, internal plate short) and cuts off, plus they have safety vents on the cells to keep pressure from building up too much.

The laptop battery fires a few years ago was due to cells not having these safety features built in.

Dang. Makes me want to charge and store them in a metal box away from anything else in case they decide to spontaneously burst into flames.

.... or make a battery with quality LG or Sanyo cells.

I gotta say. Props to Geoman for doing what he feels is the right thing. That has to put a big crimp on his bottom line. I really appreciate that he is looking out for us end users, and not just looking to make a buck off us.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

From an on-line article:

_Lithium-ion batteries are popular because they have a number of important advantages over competing technologies:

* They're generally much lighter than other types of rechargeable batteries of the same size. The electrodes of a lithium-ion battery are made of lightweight lithium and carbon. Lithium is also a highly reactive element, meaning that a lot of energy can be stored in its atomic bonds. This translates into a very high energy density for lithium-ion batteries.

Here is a way to get a perspective on the energy density. A typical lithium-ion battery can store 150 watt-hours of electricity in 1 kilogram of battery. A NiMH (nickel-metal hydride) battery pack can store perhaps 100 watt-hours per kilogram, although 60 to 70 watt-hours might be more typical. A lead-acid battery can store only 25 watt-hours per kilogram. Using lead-acid technology, it takes 6 kilograms to store the same amount of energy that a 1 kilogram lithium-ion battery can handle. That's a huge difference [Source: Everything2.com].

* They hold their charge. A lithium-ion battery pack loses only about 5 percent of its charge per month, compared to a 20 percent loss per month for NiMH batteries.

* They have no memory effect, which means that you do not have to completely discharge them before recharging, as with some other battery chemistries.

* Lithium-ion batteries can handle hundreds of charge/discharge cycles.

That is not to say that lithium-ion batteries are flawless. They have a few disadvantages as well:

* They start degrading as soon as they leave the factory. They will only last two or three years from the date of manufacture whether you use them or not.
* They are extremely sensitive to high temperatures. Heat causes lithium-ion battery packs to degrade much faster than they normally would.
* If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
* A lithium-ion battery pack must have an on-board computer to manage the battery. This makes them even more expensive than they already are.
* There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame. _


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*wow!*

double post


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Funny....*



richwolf said:


> * A lithium-ion battery pack must have an on-board computer to manage the battery. This makes them even more expensive than they already are.


Even the 2 for $8 18650 cells at dealextreme have protection chips built in.


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## rearviewmirror (Jun 14, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> Even the 2 for $8 18650 cells at dealextreme have protection chips built in.


Yep.. there are a lot of "experts" on here who's assumptions become internet fact. The cells for a new pack are extremely cheap. As far as charging and storing, most of us have multiple laptops with L-Ion batteries, you office is full of them, an airplane even and some how the human race manages to carry on. Go about your business with lithium ion packs, if DealExtreme sell you a bum one, get another pack, build your own, or use a different chemistry all together. (Max voltage for MS is 8.4V)

Lithium-Polymer is much more volatile and millions of RC car nerds manage not to kill themselves every day.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

rearviewmirror said:


> ...most of us have multiple laptops with L-Ion batteries,.


Apple coughed up for some replacement batteries for my iBook a while back.
Mass recall due to a few failures. :yesnod:


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Rakuman said:


> did you get it from Geoman or DX if you got it from geoman it should have 5 settings the dx lights vary http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44459


Thanks for the reply - I got the light off Ebay from dapedaler/Nova Lights. I'm guessing it's working as it should - seems like the high/low/SOS configuration.


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## RiderDean (Jul 21, 2009)

My MS 900 battaery is less tha a year old and has started to flack out. It wll not last more than 5 minutes on high and only about an hour on 2/3 power. I wanted to order a second light for my helmet and just get two new batteries, like the kit Geoman had. That way I could have two new batteries and two lights.

However Geoman will not resopnd to any of my e-mails or PM's over the last two weeks. So can any of you guys who are up on lights tell me the best place to buy. I have been considering the following:

1) a single kit and use it and my old one untill they figure something out
2) a kit with two batteries but they both likely would be old style and bad in a year
3) just a battery for now and live with new battery and high power on the bars.

Thanks for your help


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## linger (Nov 10, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> The laptop battery fires a few years ago was due to cells not having these safety features built in.
> .


Not true. Regarding the gigantic recall of Sony cells: the external protection circuitry has always been there. The root cause anaysis of the failure was internal shorting due to contaminants from burrs created during a punching process. All the external safety protection can't do squat when the short is internal to the cell. Keep in mind, they had about 1 short circuit in every 16 million cells.

Ironically, those recalled cells were way better made than some of the 18650 cells showing up in packs today. Pay the extra few $$ and stick with a known manufacturer like Sony, Sanyo, LG etc. There is a reason that the cheap 18650's have no brand or name associated with them. They don't want you looking for them when they fail.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

As mentioned previously, myself and few others in my group have had MS problems. However, GEO took care of us.

Last Wed, my riding buddy's light head quit working. Thurs, GEO had a new one in the mail.

Are you sure they got your e-mail. Try calling them. They sold many of these lights and many of the lights they sold are not here on this forum. If the problems are similar throughout, then I can only imagine GEO must be inundated w/ taking care of MS problems.

Give them a call and a chance to help you and a bit of leeway due to the time change which has surfaced all the issues.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I guess I'm not surprised at all that these things had serious problems. It is troubling the issues with fires though. The volume on these things is not going to be huge so the ppm failure rate is apparently quite high.

I'm also wondering about the silence. Geoman usually is all over issues with the lights and it is uncharacteristic to not hear from him. Weren't they supposedly in some sort of development partner or master distributor arrangement with Magicshine or something? I wonder what their liability in this stuff was (which probably explains the silence). They are probably first in line since it would be very difficult if not impossible for someone to go after the Asian manufacturer from here.

J.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

For $80 bucks, what do you all expect- perfect reliability and durability? Just buy a few as backups and call it a day.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Except for the charging safety issues. $80 is not worth it.

J.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

For $80, you want a superbly-designed and safe light too? :lol:



JohnJ80 said:


> Except for the charging safety issues. $80 is not worth it.
> 
> J.


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## RiderDean (Jul 21, 2009)

mb323323 said:


> As mentioned previously, myself and few others in my group have had MS problems. However, GEO took care of us.
> 
> Last Wed, my riding buddy's light head quit working. Thurs, GEO had a new one in the mail.
> 
> ...


Well I PM'd him twice and used their "contact us" linkk on their website twice over a two week period. In my last one I basicly begged them contact me via e-mail or call. That was a week ago so now it has been three weeks.

Do you have a number for them? I did not see one on the website.


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## RiderDean (Jul 21, 2009)

Flyer said:


> For $80 bucks, what do you all expect- perfect reliability and durability? Just buy a few as backups and call it a day.


I would love to!!!!!

Were can I buy a back up or two?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

They are all over  e-bay.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Flyer said:


> For $80 bucks, what do you all expect- perfect reliability and durability? Just buy a few as backups and call it a day.


That says it best. There are expensive lights with similar problems, this is a recent problem, odds are geoman can't comment on something that they do not have answers for. Really this is a light that cost 1/4 of what most comparable lights do, personally the beam pattern on mine compared to the dozen or so owned by the guys i ride with sucks, but I'll take my chances...i'd rather but 3 or 4 of these and deal with failure and have spare around to work with...in order to save money you take chances...

Geoman doesn't have the legal team of other vendors that sell lights that are far more expensive. As far as safety issues is a manufactured product that we have what two stories of problems with? I might be wrong but you get what you pay for, you bought a $100 light what do you expect?


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## MOMtbiker (Jun 20, 2009)

I sent an e-mail to Geoman the other day asking about new Battery Packs. Here is his response-

*"We hope to start sending out a completely different battery pack at the end of the month."*

All the speculation, crybabies, want to be experts and false information is really getting old on this forum. Might be a good time to lock this one down.


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## rockymtnrider (Apr 29, 2007)

MOMtbiker said:


> I sent an e-mail to Geoman the other day asking about new Battery Packs. Here is his response-
> 
> *"We hope to start sending out a completely different battery pack at the end of the month."*
> 
> All the speculation, crybabies, want to be experts and false information is really getting old on this forum. Might be a good time to lock this one down.


But I want it NOW! seriously, good to see that it should be resolved soon.


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## timetraveler (Oct 28, 2010)

Got the Magicshine combo 2300 a couple weeks ago. Friends saw it and wanted one. They told me about the halt to sales and I came back to the forum where I had been convinced to buy it in the first place. Big deal. inexpensive light that works great but the battery may have to be replaced after this season..maybe...gee, another $50 a battery. I was more concerned if it was a safety or performance issue so I sent an email to geomangear Saturday night. They responded at 6:56am PST this morning:


"GeoManGear recently received an increase in warranty claims related to the battery packs included with Magicshine lightsets. GeoManGear has determined that the Magicshine battery packs do not meet GeoManGear's high expectations regarding product performance and quality. Thus, we are unable to provide you with a replacement battery pack at this time. We are working with the manufacturer to quickly resolve these issues and will begin providing replacement battery packs after we have obtained a high-quality battery pack for our customers.

If you are able to wait several weeks until we have received replacement battery packs, please reply to this email to request that we place your name on our battery waiting list. If you do not wish to wait until we have received a suitable replacement battery pack, please contact us to request a returned merchandise authorization form for your Magicshine lightset or other customer-satisfaction options."

So they will take it back or I can wait for a replacement. Great customer service and they stand by the product. Think I'll wait.:smallviolin:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

MOMtbiker said:


> I sent an e-mail to Geoman the other day asking about new Battery Packs. Here is his response-
> 
> *"We hope to start sending out a completely different battery pack at the end of the month."*
> 
> All the speculation, crybabies, want to be experts and false information is really getting old on this forum. Might be a good time to lock this one down.


:thumbsup: 
Sounds promising... 
Except the vague date and the hope bit 

:cryin:


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## lamb (Sep 18, 2008)

znomit said:


> :thumbsup:
> Sounds promising...
> Except the vague date and the hope bit
> 
> :cryin:


That sure is good news! At least there is some communication going on now.


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## my51isfast (Sep 16, 2008)

avlad said:


> I think, the main issue with MS Li Ion battery is, that MS did not have UN38.3 test passed, and as so, can not be shipped with air transport to US.
> Clarification from Batteryspace:
> http://www.batteryspace.com/faq.aspx
> 
> ...


This shipping part is true only for shipments of 35kg or more. If Geoman is only taking shipment of batteries the shipping would be an issue. If the lights are properly packaged and/or shipped as retail sets (light, charger, battery) the class 9 standard isn't an issue.

USDOT classifications are slightly different than UN Classifications for International shipping.


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## my51isfast (Sep 16, 2008)

timetraveler said:


> Got the Magicshine combo 2300 a couple weeks ago. Friends saw it and wanted one. They told me about the halt to sales and I came back to the forum where I had been convinced to buy it in the first place. Big deal. inexpensive light that works great but the battery may have to be replaced after this season..maybe...gee, another $50 a battery. I was more concerned if it was a safety or performance issue so I sent an email to geomangear Saturday night. They responded at 6:56am PST this morning:
> 
> "GeoManGear recently received an increase in warranty claims related to the battery packs included with Magicshine lightsets. GeoManGear has determined that the Magicshine battery packs do not meet GeoManGear's high expectations regarding product performance and quality. Thus, we are unable to provide you with a replacement battery pack at this time. We are working with the manufacturer to quickly resolve these issues and will begin providing replacement battery packs after we have obtained a high-quality battery pack for our customers.
> 
> ...


+1 I think the issues have all circled around run times after long term storage, not peoples houses burning to the ground. I have actually been in contact with Magicshine and asked them directly about the problem, there were no specifics but they did say Geoman's batteries going forward will work better and properly charge


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

*Magicshine Lights Announcement*

We have been working with the US Safety Commission and have taken this matter very seriously, unfortunately there is a ton of red tape and approval at every step, hence our belated response. Customer service inquiries have also increased very dramatically so we apologize to anyone who has waited longer than usual for a reply.

We have put Customer Safety at the top of the list and discontinued Magicshine lightset sales and will work to rectify the Magicshine battery issue as quickly as possible. It's especially difficult when you are a retailer and not a manufacturer of a product.

We have just posted info regarding the battery issue on a separate thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=666617


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## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok light gurus, what do I need to do to get a good high quality battery pack for my MS ?
http://www.all-battery.com/74vli-ionbatterypacksandmodules.aspx
I don't know any of the specs for the battery it takes or the stuff to get it extra safe (i have always charged in a bucket though.) 
I have built a battery before for my ole LM Arc.

Sorry to hear about this happening for you Geo, you do GREAT service and hope everything turns out okay. Also, I will place another order soon.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion1865074v4400mahrechargeablebatterypcbmodulewith20awgbareleads.aspx

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=152
this should work its what i am planning on doing just cut and solder the cable on and you should be good to go


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## Ottoreni (Jan 27, 2004)

*Going with a battery holder...*

I am planning on going with a battery holder and individual 18650 cells. That way if any of the cells go bad or lose capacity, I can just replace them.

Confused on which holder to use...

This one... http://www.batteryspace.com/Battery-holder-Li-Ion-18650-Battery-Holder-1S4P-With-2.6-long-20AWG.aspx

or this one ... http://www.batteryspace.com/Battery-holder-Li-Ion-18650-Battery-Holder-2S2P-With-2.6-long-20AWG.aspx

The first one is a 1 series 4 parallel (1S4P). The second one is 2 series 2 parallel (2S2P). Which to use? What is the difference?


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Hi Dean
Please email us on [email protected] so we can get your info to make sure you are on our list. The geoman email account has been flooded this last 2 weeks and your email may have been automatically filtered to the wrong area.



RiderDean said:


> My MS 900 battaery is less tha a year old and has started to flack out. It wll not last more than 5 minutes on high and only about an hour on 2/3 power. I wanted to order a second light for my helmet and just get two new batteries, like the kit Geoman had. That way I could have two new batteries and two lights.
> 
> However Geoman will not resopnd to any of my e-mails or PM's over the last two weeks. So can any of you guys who are up on lights tell me the best place to buy. I have been considering the following:
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

GEOMAN said:


> Hi Dean
> Please email us on [email protected] so we can get your info to make sure you are on our list. The geoman email account has been flooded this last 2 weeks and your email may have been automatically filtered to the wrong area.


What should most of us do ... right now? My impression is that we:

1. Store the batteries outside, and do not use them.
2. Wait for information in the future on how to get replacement batteries.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

This is definitely the best plan Gary, we are working closely with the US Safety Commission so info is released as they review the situation. Please understand we want to roll this out and take care of everyone as quickly as possible but there are procedures to follow.



[email protected] said:


> What should most of us do ... right now? My impression is that we:
> 
> 1. Store the batteries outside, and do not use them.
> 2. Wait for information in the future on how to get replacement batteries.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

znomit said:


> I think the hot McDonalds coffee was around a buck


Yes, and served inside the actual temperature range recommended by coffee experts as being perfect for maximum flavour and aroma. Of course they never expected to be sued by someone who lacked the common sense NOT to remove the lid off the coffee with it in their lap between their knees. Originally this moronic woman only wanted her medical bills covered too (about $20000 as I recall, this was in the early 90s afterall) but McDonalds and anyone with an actual sense of taking personal responsibility for ones actions didn't think they were at fault.

quoting from the wiki on it...

_Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants,[1] also known as the "McDonald's coffee case and the hot coffee lawsuit is a 1994 product liability lawsuit that became a flashpoint in the debate in the U.S. over tort reform after a jury awarded $2.86 million to a woman who burned herself with hot coffee she purchased from fast food restaurant McDonald's. The trial judge reduced the total award to $640,000, and the parties settled for a confidential amount before an appeal was decided. The case was noted by some as an example of frivolous litigation;[2] ABC News calls the case "the poster child of excessive lawsuits."[3]

_


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## picassomoon (Jun 16, 2009)

There is considerable divde in the legal community as to the merits of that case, and I have read opinions before supporting the plaintiff, who suffered injuries and underwent medical treatment that the average person would not expect to suffer from a coffee spill. Cherrypicking wikipedia snippets doesn't prove anything.

Regardless, you should stop attempting to derail this thread which is NOT about frivoulous lawsuits or lawsuits at all except as a total aside. We are here to discuss our MagicShine lights and the best approaches to the current situation, and your post is potentially counterproductive to that.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

picassomoon said:


> ... and your post is potentially counterproductive to that.


The vast majority of his posts are.


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## iskionrocks (Oct 12, 2010)

Anyone have any info on the newer rigid body battery setup? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44459


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## nando (Jun 27, 2005)

rearviewmirror said:


> ...Use a Lipo Sack for charging to reduce/remove risk of fire while charging.


Yo, rvm, how you doing Down Under?

That Lipo sack, I'm sold (unnerving video).

Can't seem to find it locally. Guess I'll use one of these in the meantime:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

iskionrocks said:


> Anyone have any info on the newer rigid body battery setup? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44459


I don't have info on the new rigid body battery pack. Based on what I saw with the testing I did on the older battery pack, they would need to improve the quality of the cells as well as make changes to the electronics to correct all the issues I observed. Certainly the electronics in this pack are likely different but whether they changed the algorithms used for the battery protection can only be determined by testing. The only improvement that's obvious, is physical protection provided by the case. But, the latest previous generation battery is in a solid metal case so a plastic case isn't going to match that in term of physical protection.

If you want me to speculate, I would say it's probably more likely to have the same problems than it is to be improved. I really doubt they changed the source for the li-ion cells, which would be the best way to improve the most fundamental issue.

Now if someone wants to loan me one, I'll do a little testing.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

rearviewmirror said:


> MagicShine uses cheap cells.
> Batteries are inherently dangerous, should be handled/charged w/ caution.
> Once the MS battery dies, a new pack can be used for very little money (quality cells).
> Use a Lipo Sack for charging to reduce/remove risk of fire while charging.


We use to charge our batteries in a kiln if that gives you any sort of indication with the energetic potential that these cells have. After testing several cells from several mfg I can say that the cells sourced from China were by far the worst that we saw and most likely to cause issues down the road. Japan and Korean cells did test well with higher QC on their product.

Don't know if the Lipo sack would contain a thermal runaway event, but might buy you more time.

After seeing these cells fail I would go with a trusted source for cells in a form factor that is more reliable and less prone to failure.


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## tttiltheend (Nov 17, 2010)

I have an old WWII-style ammo box. How about that for charging & storage? If it isn't latched so I can get the charge cord in, I wonder if that will be safe enough as long as it's not near anything flammable.

I'm really enjoying my nighttime trail rides w/ my MS light, so much more fun than the trainer sessions I've been doing for the last few years, so I really really don't want to stop using it. Good to know about the DIY replacement.


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## oakley198877 (Oct 4, 2008)

tttiltheend said:


> I have an old WWII-style ammo box. How about that for charging & storage? If it isn't latched so I can get the charge cord in, I wonder if that will be safe enough as long as it's not near anything flammable.
> 
> I'm really enjoying my nighttime trail rides w/ my MS light, so much more fun than the trainer sessions I've been doing for the last few years, so I really really don't want to stop using it. Good to know about the DIY replacement.


IMHO that would work great.

I've been in the RC world for some time and to the honest seeing a Lipo or Li-Ion go up in flames by itself is not surprising to me at all. These batteries while provide great performance are at the same time very sensitive and if not properly cared, dangerous. Almost all Lipo and Li-Ion batteries are from china now a days, so there is not much difference regarding where it's made. The only difference is the quality of the packs. I don't know how are the quality of the MS Li-Ion batteries, but I do know from experience even the highest quality Lipo or Li-Ion packs has the risk of catching fire if misused. For my RC lipo batteries, they are always stored in a lipo sack in a fireproof box. For now, so is the MS battery.


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## cycljunkie (Feb 6, 2004)

*Help out a non-DIY Guy...*



Rakuman said:


> http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion1865074v4400mahrechargeablebatterypcbmodulewith20awgbareleads.aspx
> 
> http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=152
> this should work its what i am planning on doing just cut and solder the cable on and you should be good to go


I'm not a DIY guy but this sounds like a good plan. So if you solder the MS lead on to the new pack you can just use the original MS charger for it? Or do you need something like *this* and just buy a 2nd ext. cable and solder that to the universal charger?


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm trying to steer away from cheap chargers like the standard MS one. So I picked up one of these...........
http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html

I have also decided to make some DIY packs as well.
On the packs I am going to build, I will be adding a balancer cable so I can balance charge them. Overkill, maybe.

I also have several torches that I loan out to buddies for night riding, and am tired of the cheapo DX 18650 charger that takes over 6 hours to charge a cell, so I picked up some of these to make a charging cradle so I can charge whatever number a cells I need to at a time, up to 4.....................................
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=393250&k=18650
using my new charger. Will most likely balance the cradle I make as well.

For the DIY MS packs I would get a Y cable, rather than an extension. Its the same price and it will give you 2 female ends to use for packs, and 1 male end to use for the charger side.
http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=150

I am also going to play around with a couple LIPO packs as well....I just need to figure out a safe holder/case for them.
I have some kevlar and nomex cloth so I will most likely incorporate that stuff as well. I may even layup a carbon fiber case for the packs.

I will be building a few different packs with 2,3 and 4 cells to get different runtimes.
I find for my average night ride that lasts1.5 hours I barely use 25-30% of my charge. So I will make a 2 cell pack for the helmet using 2600mah cells. That should give me over 2 hours on high.
Since I only use high mode when descending, that is minimal drain on the pack.

As to whether the stock MS charger will work with your DIY pack, it shouldn't be a problem if you stick with a 4 cell pack with similar mAh.
If you go with a slightly higher mAh pack, it will just take a bit longer to charge with the MS charger. If you stick with a 4400mAh pack, it should be pretty much the same, so no use in buying a new charger, unless you want added features like I am after.
I'm not an electronics expert, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.


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## mumbles (Jul 22, 2006)

Fast charging cause of explosions. http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/20/researchers-identify-cause-of-li-ion-battery-fires-fast-chargin/ Does this mean I don't have to worry bout my battery bursting into flames as I ride down the trail?


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## thevincentlee (Dec 6, 2009)

what's funny is that Geoman sells the crappiest and best lights on the planet. Quite ironic.
Magicshine and the Lupine


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

thevincentlee said:


> what's funny is that Geoman sells the crappiest and best lights on the planet. Quite ironic.
> Magicshine and the Lupine


Lupines aren't that bad and they do seem to have nice people building them.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

So have we heard anything about replacements yet?


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

We are working on a number of solutions, we will provide an update when we have concrete info for you all.



gticlay said:


> So have we heard anything about replacements yet?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mumbles said:


> Fast charging cause of explosions. http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/20/researchers-identify-cause-of-li-ion-battery-fires-fast-chargin/ * Does this mean I don't have to worry bout my battery bursting into flames as I ride down the trail?*


I took a quick look at the article you linked to. Basically the article is geared toward future tech involving fast charging batteries for cars. Nobody that has any sense is fast charging Li-ion cells as they are today. Fast charging tends to destroy the batteries after a certain amount of time. Of course some people don't care and are willing to replace the batteries if they wear out faster. To each their own.

In answer to your question: No, currently sold battery cells contain protective measures to prevent flame-out. Now if the protection fails, theoretically flame-out could occur. Still, you have more chance of being eaten by a bear, mountain lion, bitten by a snake, being run over by a car...etc, etc. On the down side you are more likely to have the battery flame-out rather than being hit by a meteor. Sadly , one must take risks when mountain biking.


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## MOMtbiker (Jun 20, 2009)

thevincentlee said:


> what's funny is that Geoman sells the crappiest and best lights on the planet. Quite ironic.
> Magicshine and the Lupine


Crappiest? :nono: ... Everyone is entitled to there opinion. I personally own 3 of those "Crappie" lights and I light up the trails at night with them. My friends with MUCH more expensive lights dont have near the lumins my 3 add up too and they have more money in there ONE light.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

thevincentlee said:


> what's funny is that Geoman sells the crappiest and best lights on the planet. Quite ironic.
> Magicshine and the Lupine


That's kind of a silly thing to say when you consider there are thousands of Magischines out there, and most of the owners quite happy with them (including me).

As far as the people that are having a problem with the batteries, big whoop! All they have to do is spend about $50 more for a replacement battery and cord from one of the battery suppliers online, they'd be in for about $140 total, and STILL have a way brighter light then people spending $350 and up for name brand lights.

But you go right ahead and pay ridiculously inflated prices for your lights. I'll put the extra couple hundred bucks towards better things.:thumbsup:


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## harry2110 (Oct 18, 2008)

This is kinda off topic but actually LiPo isnt that bad anymore apple uses them in all the macbook pros and I havent heard of one blowing up yet. I have 3 batteries for the MS but they havent had a charge put to them in 6 months.


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## S2k Dude (Feb 17, 2005)

I've not used my MS light more than a half dozen times since I purchased it about a year ago but I charge it every 2-3 months so the cells remain healthy. So far no issues, but after reading this thread I decided to put the battery on the charger and check the run time. Not all 18650 cells are made in China, several brands are still made in Japan (Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic). Generally, they are a safe and reliable cell with a built-in safety device (polyswitch), however, I'm sure the quality can vary depending on the manufacturer. 

I happen to design battery packs (with 18650 and prismatic lithium ion cells) for a living and if Geoman has any questions I encourage him to send me a PM.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

fightnut said:


> That's kind of a silly thing to say when you consider there are thousands of Magischines out there, and most of the owners quite happy with them (including me).
> 
> As far as the people that are having a problem with the batteries, big whoop! All they have to do is spend about $50 more for a replacement battery and cord from one of the battery suppliers online, they'd be in for about $140 total, and STILL have a way brighter light then people spending $350 and up for name brand lights.
> 
> But you go right ahead and pay ridiculously inflated prices for your lights. I'll put the extra couple hundred bucks towards better things.:thumbsup:


That couple of hundred bucks wouldn't even pay half of my homeowner's deductible. False economy.

Probability of a failure is relatively low but the potential for serious catastrophe if it does is unacceptably high. Why else would Geoman do the right thing and cease selling them?

J.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

S2k Dude said:


> I've not used my MS light more than a half dozen times since I purchased it about a year ago but I charge it every 2-3 months so the cells remain healthy. So far no issues, but after reading this thread I decided to put the battery on the charger and check the run time. Not all 18650 cells are made in China, several brands are still made in Japan (Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic). Generally, they are a safe and reliable cell with a built-in safety device (polyswitch), however, I'm sure the quality can vary depending on the manufacturer.
> 
> I happen to design battery packs (with 18650 and prismatic lithium ion cells) for a living and if Geoman has any questions I encourage him to send me a PM.


I do: *GROUP BUY??? * for single cells? :thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> Why else would Geoman do the right thing and cease selling them?
> 
> J.


There are hefty fines for knowingly selling dangerous goods.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

There ought to be. That's a good thing.

J.


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

fightnut said:


> That's kind of a silly thing to say when you consider there are thousands of Magischines out there, and most of the owners quite happy with them (including me).


+1.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

fightnut and Vancemac +1 said:


> That's kind of a silly thing to say when you consider there are thousands of Magischines out there, and most of the owners quite happy with them (including me).
> 
> As far as the people that are having a problem with the batteries, big whoop! All they have to do is spend about $50 more for a replacement battery and cord from one of the battery suppliers online, they'd be in for about $140 total, and STILL have a way brighter light then people spending $350 and up for name brand lights.
> 
> But you go right ahead and pay ridiculously inflated prices for your lights. I'll put the extra couple hundred bucks towards better things.:thumbsup:


I'm not sure you would feel that way if your "bike room" or garage burnt down because of a known to be faulty battery. Would you still find it silly? You'd just sit there and laugh while your garage was burning and think to yourself, "that's silly, my home is burning and wtf, I have insurance. I'm just gonna laugh.... hahahahahahahaha." I don't think so. bro.


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

gticlay said:


> I'm not sure you would feel that way if your "bike room" or garage burnt down because of a known to be faulty battery. Would you still find it silly? You'd just sit there and laugh while your garage was burning and think to yourself, "that's silly, my home is burning and wtf, I have insurance. I'm just gonna laugh.... hahahahahahahaha." I don't think so. bro.


Well, seeing as the poster mentioned replacing the battery with a known good one, the risk is probably the same as whichever light you are using. It's just cheaper. There's no danger in the lighthead, and that's still selling.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

gticlay said:


> I'm not sure you would feel that way if your "bike room" or garage burnt down because of a known to be faulty battery. Would you still find it silly? You'd just sit there and laugh while your garage was burning and think to yourself, "that's silly, my home is burning and wtf, I have insurance. I'm just gonna laugh.... hahahahahahahaha." I don't think so. bro.


and, of course, congratulating yourself on how much money you saved on your bike light not to mention what a smart deal that was.

J.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ctxcrossx said:


> Well, seeing as the poster mentioned replacing the battery with a known good one, the risk is probably the same as whichever light you are using. It's just cheaper. There's no danger in the lighthead, and that's still selling.


They are all "known good" until... :madmax:


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

S2k Dude said:


> I've not used my MS light more than a half dozen times since I purchased it about a year ago but I charge it every 2-3 months so the cells remain healthy. So far no issues, but after reading this thread I decided to put the battery on the charger and check the run time. Not all 18650 cells are made in China, several brands are still made in Japan (Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic). Generally, they are a safe and reliable cell with a built-in safety device (polyswitch), however, I'm sure the quality can vary depending on the manufacturer.
> 
> I happen to design battery packs (with 18650 and prismatic lithium ion cells) for a living and if Geoman has any questions I encourage him to send me a PM.


I thought storing li-ion packs in a cool area at between 70 - 40% of charge capacity was best and if done in that manner a charge was required only once a year. And prolonged storage at 100% degrades them faster. Just ask'n since you are a designer.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Ratt said:


> I thought storing li-ion packs in a cool area at between 70 - 40% of charge capacity was best and if done in that manner a charge was required only once a year. And prolonged storage at 100% degrades them faster. Just ask'n since you are a designer.


Most/many of the more expensive OEM companies ship their product fully charged. It's not a problem (with a quality pack).


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## linger (Nov 10, 2010)

gticlay said:


> Most/many of the more expensive OEM companies ship their product fully charged. It's not a problem (with a quality pack).


I've worked with OEM cell manufacturers from China, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Canada and the USA. I have yet to meet a single factory that regularly ships out cells fully charged.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

linger said:


> I've worked with OEM cell manufacturers from China, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Canada and the USA. I have yet to meet a single factory that regularly ships out cells fully charged.


There was just a thread about it like 3 days ago. But I'm not a battery pack eng-ga-neer and I haven't worked with battery pack OEM cell man-you-factereres either so ymmv, imo, fwik, yada yada.


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## Sebastian78 (Aug 25, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> I thought the industry generally solved this issue a few years ago by using protected cells. There is a circuit in there that detects over current on each cell (short, internal plate short) and cuts off, plus they have safety vents on the cells to keep pressure from building up too much.
> 
> The laptop battery fires a few years ago was due to cells not having these safety features built in.


The recent laptop battery recall was due to metal filings or metal particles inside the battery which short circuited the battery cell itself.


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## Sebastian78 (Aug 25, 2010)

So what about this being sold på Nova Lights on Ebay?










Claimed new battery manufacturer, UL and CE certified. The light head also has new functions. I like the silicone cover as I recon it would protect it better inside the nylon pouch.


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## Sebastian78 (Aug 25, 2010)

Just to try and justify myself.....I would really, REALLY like to own a set of Lupine lights. I love quality products, my bike is a 3000$ Gary Fisher. But things have changed and things are not as they were. I can't afford the Tesla, so I have to settle for the Magicshine. I now it probably won't last as long as the Tesla, but I hope by the time it does, I will be better off money wise.


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

gticlay said:


> I'm not sure you would feel that way if your "bike room" or garage burnt down because of a known to be faulty battery. Would you still find it silly? You'd just sit there and laugh while your garage was burning and think to yourself, "that's silly, my home is burning and wtf, I have insurance. I'm just gonna laugh.... hahahahahahahaha." I don't think so. bro.


Yes, because the world is black and white like that. A few anecdotal incidents, followed by a CYA pissing match between a vendor and overseas supplier, and suddenly all batteries from one supplier are nuclear devices. Please continue on with your hysteria.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Vancemac said:


> Yes, because the world is black and white like that. A few anecdotal incidents, followed by a CYA pissing match between a vendor and overseas supplier, and suddenly all batteries from one supplier are nuclear devices. Please continue on with your hysteria.


I think part of the problem was that the batteries weren't all from one supplier - mixed randomly. And I do like Def Leppard


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## Vancemac (Apr 29, 2006)

gticlay said:


> I think part of the problem was that the batteries weren't all from one supplier - mixed randomly.


Yes, that is one of the aggravating things about this thread. I fully expect mediocre quality control from ALL the 2nd tier vendors. It goes with the (cheap price) territory. And I still haven't seen any solid evidence that MS has a battery problem beyond the same % of issues with all the other 2nd tier vendors who are using all the same suppliers.



gticlay said:


> And I do like Def Leppard


I really disliked them in the 80's, but that's because I (quite unfairly, in retrospect) lumped them in with all the poser hair metal bands. Still not my cup of tea, but I will give them props.


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## MrRogers1935 (Jul 27, 2010)

GEOMAN said:


> We are working on a number of solutions, we will provide an update when we have concrete info for you all.


Any news in the last month Geoman?

MrR


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## POG (May 20, 2004)

MrRogers1935 said:


> Any news in the last month Geoman?
> 
> MrR


Well, it really hasn't been a month - you have the holidays and all. Really it has been only like two actual days. Plus, we have more holidays coming up. I say look for an update around mid-June or so (unless they get distracted).


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

POG said:


> Well, it really hasn't been a month - you have the holidays and all. Really it has been only like two actual days. Plus, we have more holidays coming up. I say look for an update around mid-June or so (unless they get distracted).


WTF???


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Hey guys
Yes we have made progress, custom designing and manufacturing an intelligent battery pack to maximise safety, durability and battery life is no easy task. We are are underway and are waiting for the ETA from our US manufacturer on the availability of the finished product. Thanks for your continued patience and support, we appreciate it.



MrRogers1935 said:



> Any news in the last month Geoman?
> 
> MrR


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## nando (Jun 27, 2005)

Tanks for the update. I think I speak for many when I say I can't wait for this issue to be resolved so I can buy another Magicshine from Geomangear.


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## POG (May 20, 2004)

Sebastian78 said:


> So what about this being sold på Nova Lights on Ebay?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't see where anybody answered the question about this magicshine battery presently being sold on ebay? Definitely is not the first or second generation as it has the silicon cover and they point out it won't fit in the original pouch.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

I try and buy British, French, German, Or American whenever I can; I hate how China now makes everything and we make bugger all. However, I don't think you can argue with Magicshine value. I can justify 300 notes or less on a set of Hope hubs on DT or Stan or Mavic rims, but I feel I cannot justify 300 notes on a front light.

My original MS 3 mode (hi, low, strobe) light has been great.

I am now buying another for my new Ragley I have just built. Bit confused now because there are many versions of the original magichine, plus some new models, plus loads of other lights that look identical or similar to the magicshine...

I don't like the new 3 light magicshine. Too dorky looking I think. 

This new aluminium battery with charge indicator that comes with the latest generation of MS, can it be secured to the bars like the previous version? Or is it just for mounting to the frame? 

What other lights could I look at?


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