# 2010 Hope Race X2 brakes



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Looks like hope is releasing a new XC brake.

Race X2, replaces the X2 Mini Pro

estimated at 270g per end. Maybe not the lightest, but probably going to be one of the most reliable.

I think I found the 2010 upgrade I want to do... Replace the Avid Juicy Ultimates on my Kona Hei Hei Supreme. The avids have been finiky and I've had to rebuild both levers already... The Hope X2 Mini Pro I have on the lynskey always works. No fussing around required. They bleed using the gravity method rather than stupid syringes.


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

270 per end? Isn't that even lighter than Formula R1?

Hope stuff is solid. I'm sure they'll be a nice upgrade.


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## superspec (Sep 15, 2007)

what did the minis weight that you have? im getting ready to buy the X2s like you have but may splurge for these new ones.

any idea what they may run yet?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Here were my weights for the 2009 Hope X2 Pro
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=483371


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Any idea of price yet? These look really nice!


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

Priced at £195 per wheel

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/09/eurobike-day-one-part-two/


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

That "honest weight of 270g" is including rotor or not?

It's nice they're quoting honest weight unlike their rear hub that's 22g over...


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## God_Speed (Oct 5, 2007)

Just got this information from CRC:

_"I have spoken to the brand manager for Hope and he told me that 2010 stuff has not started production yet. Hope has told us they anticipate having the stems and brakes ready for January, however, this is not a definite date."_


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## superspec (Sep 15, 2007)

well im glad i saved the 200 bux and the 2 more months of waiting and bought the mini pro x2s friday


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

these brakes are being released next week!! although because hope have been waiting for carbon leved to be produced for so long they have produced their own alloy levers and reservoir caps. they claim that the weight is about 2 grams heavier and the price of the brakes have gone down by £5 per brake. saw the alloy levers today and they look and feel nicer than the carbons anyway. hope and looking to release the carbon levers at a later date and match makers are on their way soon too.


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## Jay Hill (Apr 4, 2007)

I rode a demo bike with these on today here in the uk, felt absolutely superb.:thumbsup: I am only used to xtr v- brakes though, so i don't know how much my opinion counts! And can confirm the levers and the cap are in alloy at the moment.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

booo! 5 british pounds cheaper for alloy lever and alloy cap? WTF? I'm willing to bet those things when purchased separately after the fact would cost 40 british pounds. 

that is BS!


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## superspec (Sep 15, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> booo! 5 british pounds cheaper for alloy lever and alloy cap? WTF? I'm willing to bet those things when purchased separately after the fact would cost 40 british pounds.
> 
> that is BS!


yep i was thinking the same thing. i still havent mounted my mini pros and was thinking about selling them to fund the races but without the carbon bits, i really just dont see the point when i like the look of the pros over the black races.


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

i bet they will be expensive. oh well hopefully i should have a set at the end of the week and i'll post a pic up of them. glad they are black - the pros are nice but i didnt like the colour of them.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I too have a pair on back order and hope to have them by the end of the week. I was initially disappointed to hear they had ditched the carbon but I can live with 2g extra. They tell me that the new levers have a much better feel than than carbon and have been milled to be the lightest they have made.I suppose they would say that though.: I will be very happy if they come in at the claimed weight. They are replacing my mono mini's and will shave around half a pound off the bike and I know they will be great. I have great faith in their stuff and compared to the mainstream competition they are a good price


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm sure you won't be disappointed! The alloy levers look sweet!


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## pernfilman (May 24, 2007)

Impressive weight but I like the hope minis aesthetics mo betta

I wont be swapping mine just yet


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

Matter of opinion there but your res caps look cool. Nice bit of weight weenieism done there. I'll be looking to do something similar with the races, it might take some time because they are so new though.


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## pernfilman (May 24, 2007)

http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/

they made the reservoir caps

I would say they were made popular first by Cheers!

I had never heard of them before he put em on his


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

I wonder if they'll make me some? I can't be without my brakes if I have to send them a cap to copy though


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

They have hope's and shimano as stock items.

Its really for the bling factor....they save about 2g


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

Ill have to see if the caps are the same when I get my brakes then.


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

Are there any pictures of this new Race X2 with the aluminium lever and cap?
I want to buy this brakes, but no carbon lever! Have to see how they look like.


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

Only pic I could find was this

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/large_image.php?id=34130

not the best pic but they do look great in the flesh


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for the pic.
Those levers look cool and this time having anything painted in green. Also I'm not a fan of too much carbon.
Just have too chose between buying now or wait for carbon...


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I can't wait to purchase a set of these. I do wish they made them in silver instead of black like the Tech X2's but whatever, I am just happy its not another generation of that horrible teal colour. 

I have been eyeballing these based on Cheers' recommendations for the last little while. I'll probably wait for the carbon levers since my frame is still at the frame builder. Can't wait to try these puppies out.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Another photo from Google. Looks like alloy levers and alloy cap in this as well:


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Are they shipping yet? Anybody have them? I like my Formula R1s, but they are pretty finicky. I bet these are more user friendly. Hope stuff generally is no fuss!


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## Drea (Aug 23, 2008)

So, how are they comparing to R1's in terms of weight? R1 is 270g. including 160mm rotor, bolts ect. right?


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I heard 275g including rotors, lines and hardware, but no one seems to have actual weights yet since it would see that they aren't in stock anywhere quite yet.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

pernfilman said:


> Impressive weight but I like the hope minis aesthetics mo betta
> 
> I wont be swapping mine just yet


I am looking at the new ones, and I am thinking the same thing. I like the mini x2s better. I might have to go buy a set to make sure I have them for a build later this year.


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## Drea (Aug 23, 2008)

Great, as long as it's in that area it's all good  I had a chat with a UK dealer and he said I could get a pair in a month's time from now.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

*A*

I've just had a call from my LBS to say my Xc races have just come in. Sadly I won't be able to pick them up/have them fitted until Monday due to work. The shop owner says that they look the nuts and the levers are beautifully machined with a few hoes drilled to lose even more weight. He says that they are totally different to the x2 pro levers and the calipers have been machined back even more. I will weigh them before they go on and post a review asap. I have gone for 160mm rotors front and rear. I have had these on back order since early November


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## pernfilman (May 24, 2007)

What a tease making us wait till Monday


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

^ ohhhhhh awesome! Looking forward to actual weights and pics


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

The weights on a UK website are 268g with a 160mm 3 bolt rotor and 284g with a 160mm 6 bolt floating rotor. If you cut the cables shorter I guess this is reduced a bit.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Looks like the Hope site is quoting 275g. Maybe that's with 6 bolts.
http://www.hopegb.com/page_mep_force_70.html


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I believe that is for a 6 bolt rotor in 140mm.


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

lbs just called.....MY BRAKES ARE HERE!!!!!! i'm off to hopefully weight and fit them. pics up later today!


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

here is a pic. on a scale, its an 160 mm disc.

http://www.bikeboutique.eu/site/assortiment/hope-brakes-parts/hope-race-x2-remmen.html

they do look great !


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

thats the weight of a rear.


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## stu8975 (Jan 17, 2009)

huckandcrash said:


> thats the weight of a rear.


Unless the levers have been changed over..that s a front brake (UK wise anyway).


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I'd say that is a rear judging by the amount of hose wound up.


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

well its a german site!! i would presume that its a rear.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Its is a rear, the site says that is a rear brake, with filled oil. And that other brands show there weight with a front brake without oil......

Any more info about prices ?

@huckandcrash

Its a dutch site, its very dangerous to call it german...:thumbsup:


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

sorry!! its all german to me. price £190 each.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I look forward to your pictures and weights before I get mine on Monday . The 295g weight on the Dutch site with a full length rear cable and oil is pretty impressive. The front should be a fair few g lighter and the rear when trimmed will also go on a diet


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I wonder how long it will be until Hope gets the carbon levers thing fixed up. Will they eventually sell them out of the box with carbon levers in the next couple months or so once that is resolved, or is it going to be an upgrade?


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

They will sell them with alu levers en topcap......the carbon levers and topcaps will come later as an upgrade kit. I don't think it wil save much weight, and I like the alu cnc look !


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

I'm still waiting for Hope to pull their finger out and release their 'Matchmakers' for XTR shifters


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

It shouldn't be too long and they will anodised black too!! I saw a set of pre pros and they look cool...for a matchmaker


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## Kris (Jun 15, 2004)

They look super! Question, do they come with IS adapters?


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## huckandcrash (Dec 1, 2009)

Yes they do


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I have now had the brakes fitted and weighed them when they were filled with oil and bled. The rear brake hose came a little short for my bike and had to be made longer.
The front brake came in at 283g, this included everything with the rotor which is a 160mm and oil.
The rear brake once lengthened and bled came in at 294g, again including the a 160mm rotor and oil.
The IS adaptor weighs 16g.

I have only ridden up and down the road so far but the brakes feel good, but I hope to get out on a proper ride later when I can post an early review. I have saved around 250g over my outgoing Hope Mono mini's. I just hope these perform as well.
These brakes look brilliant, a really great design and if looks were everything, they are the best out there, performance, we'll see. I have posted some pictures below, not the best quality, but you get the idea.


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## Drea (Aug 23, 2008)

That's one set of sweet brakes. Nice bike as well


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## elbardo (Jan 21, 2008)

does anyone know what the weight of the rotors are? Are they using the ultra lite rotors that are ~75g (160)?


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

After seeing these pics I think the R1s are definitely nicer looking, but I'll bet the Hopes are less fiddly.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

elbardo said:


> does anyone know what the weight of the rotors are? Are they using the ultra lite rotors that are ~75g (160)?


I weighed the rotors and they are the Ultralite ones, it was 78g for my 160mm.


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Where do I pick up some HOPES?!


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

Ive just bought from here http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/index.php?cPath=446

Best price i could find they didnt have the 6 bolt ones in stock but said they would order them and i should have them i 1 week


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Universal Cycles in Portland Oregon (so no tax for peeps in CA) just let me know they have them instock today

...UC will price match if you can google a cheaper price for them


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

culturesponge said:


> Universal Cycles in Portland Oregon (so no tax for peeps in CA) just let me know they have them instock today
> 
> ...UC will price match if you can google a cheaper price for them


I was about to post this info as well, got the same in-stock email :thumbsup:

I don't think UC will pricematch this time because they state "rock bottom price" on the product page. It's 272 dollars, which is a good price. Speedgoat (when they get them in stock) is going to sell them for 346 and when CRC get's them they will be 271.

The only cheaper place is Cyclesport UK which is 242 (shipped), compared to 282 for UC shipped (UPS ground), so $40 difference, but I rather order from place in Oregon than UK.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

there is a price match!

i wrote to Mike @ Universal Cycles to tell him that the spec was wrong for the Hopes "Carbon lever blade and reservoir cap "

he replied that they don't have them yet (so perhaps premature with the instock notice? !!)

still, i'd rather purchase expensive items @ UC than at another DB bike shop

there's also a discount code:
For 10% off orders over $100.00, use coupon code vip10
For 15% off orders over $300.00, use coupon code vip15


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

Sounds from the example on here that they arent much lighter than the old "pro' version.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> t
> 
> there's also a discount code:
> For 10% off orders over $100.00, use coupon code vip10
> For 15% off orders over $300.00, use coupon code vip15


Coupon codes don't work for these brakes.


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## cadre (Dec 18, 2007)

hi guys, was abt to place an order from cyclesportsuk. Just a question before i proceed, would the 3-bolt design rotors fit the conventional 6-bolt hub? (I'm using tune KK btw...)
thank u


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## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

Yes.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

cadre said:


> hi guys, was abt to place an order from cyclesportsuk. Just a question before i proceed, would the 3-bolt design rotors fit the conventional 6-bolt hub? (I'm using tune KK btw...)
> thank u


I rang hope direct about this last week. They said the 3 bolt version was specifically for their own 3 bolt hub and wheel. Three bolts on a six bolt of course could work but not ideal if the bolts even line up, which they should.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Soya said:


> Yes.


Are you sure? The pictures tell a different story:

https://www.hopegb.com/photos/whspxc3T.jpg

https://www.hopetech.com/Reviews/st 3 bolt wheels sept.pdf


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Pete N said:


> I rang hope direct about this last week. They said the 3 bolt version was specifically for their own 3 bolt hub and wheel. Three bolts on a six bolt of course could work but not ideal if the bolts even line up, which they should.


Pete N, doing my nut not having any UK parts on stumpy. i await eagerly your review (although lack of 180 front may mean they go on race bike, which is fitting i suppose ).


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

DParry. They are some serious bikes you have there, very nice.

For anyone who is interested, here is an early review of the new Hope brakes. I have had six good rides on them now but I can only really compare them to my outgoing Hope mono mini's so the review may not be of great value but I have to say that I am very impressed. The main differences I have noticed are much less squeal, a better feeling/feedback through the lever and what has surprised me most is better stopping power.
The brakes run very freely and by that I mean that they don't rub on the rotors at all, even though the clearance is fairly minimal.The floating rotors are thinner and so far are running very true. The levers are very well designed and perfect for 1 or 2 finger braking and the feedback you get through the lever is fantastic. You can tell exactly where you are with your braking and what you have left. The lever action is consistent with no spongeiness, even less than the mono mini's. The brakes do squeal very slightly when wet but only for the 1st second or so of braking and from then on they are silent, even in mud and rain. It's as though the first disc rotation dries everything off and then silence. The squeal is so much less than the mono mini's and in the dry they are completely silent.
Now the stopping power is what has impressed me most, with such a small caliper. They stop quicker in every way than the mono mini's and I weigh a pretty average 180lbs, the pad contact area is about the same as the mono mini's. I ride in a hilly but not mountainous area so can't say how they would be in the Alps, but around here with some good descents and drops they are fantastic. I am impressed and am confident that they will be maintenance free, like most Hope stuff and the old mono mini's. Hope stuff is so easy to use and is bullet proof, and at the price and weight they would be hard to beat. I paid £320 for the pair through my LBS.


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## sibbi (Feb 3, 2010)

Thank you Pete n


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi PeteN, good review, thanks! i was hoping it would be good and was! i've been off racing for a few weeks and great to catch back up with folks.

looking at a HT xc race bike now and 160/140 of these puppies is top on my list.

anymore feedback keep it coming.


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## lactatofilo (Jul 6, 2008)

Pete N said:


> DParry. They are some serious bikes you have there, very nice.
> 
> "For anyone who is interested, here is an early review of the new Hope brakes.."
> 
> ...


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes they are a two piece bar clamp. I rang Hope last week and they said a matchmaker will be ready for these in the near future


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

Pete N said:


> Yes they are a two piece bar clamp. I rang Hope last week and they said a matchmaker will be ready for these in the near future


Thats funny as i emailed them yesterday and its available now for XTR shifters part number HBSP264 :thumbsup:


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Gezzza said:


> Thats funny as i emailed them yesterday and its available now for XTR shifters part number HBSP264 :thumbsup:


What do the matchmakers do exactly? I have XTR Shifters.

Thanks


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## knef (Jan 26, 2007)

iRoNeTiK said:


> What do the matchmakers do exactly? I have XTR Shifters.


They mount the shifter directly to the brakelever. So there are less clamps on the handlebar. Looks cleaner.


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

Nice!! Where can I order the matchmakers from? I dont see them on Chainreaction


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

Thomas Anderson said:


> Nice!! Where can I order the matchmakers from? I dont see them on Chainreaction


CRC will not order them for you i went to my LBS and got them to order them


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## Light-Bikes (Apr 5, 2007)

*Pics on Scale*


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## God_Speed (Oct 5, 2007)

Got my new front brake today it's looking good! 

Im pleased with selling the stock mounted R1 Carbons and changing them with Hope Race brakes. Not that fragile feel I got from the R1's. They are lighter aswell and have a more distinct feel. Im very pleased.


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## sjees (Mar 28, 2009)

Nice nice,do you already try them?


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## God_Speed (Oct 5, 2007)

sjees said:


> Nice nice,do you already try them?


Just been riding some in the basement dond want to take the bike out in the 70cm of snow


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*nope Hope for me*

anyone know how far the brake pads retract? ...or the rotors braking track width?

i'm used to 7mm pad spacing/retraction on my mag Marta's and use slightly wobbly Scrub rotors

these X2's look like they'd benefit massively with a Goodridge hose upgrade


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

*What Mountain Bike Mag*

very disappointing review 2.5/5 in latest WMB mag. strange as MBR gave them 10 a couple of issues again. My rear has just arrived to complete the set and i'm hoping the reviews are wrong. main gripe was lack of power... i never had any issue with old mono mini pros so as long as similar to that i'll be good.

PeteN, how they doing on stumpy? power an issue running the standard 160 front? i hope to get out this weekend and see that they are wrong!!! i wont be happy as sold my XXs to get them!


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

I just got my set in. 160mm F and 140 R, first race will be this Saturday on them. Here are some pics of the weights

Front 160mm Rotor w/ Ti Bolts









Front Caliper w/ Hose









Mounting Hardware









Rear 140mm Rotor w/ Ti Bolts









Rear Caliper









Rear I.S. Adapter w/ Bolts









The 6 Ti bolts weigh about 7-8 grams, so about 79 grams for 160mm Rotor and 63g for 140mm Rotor.

Total weight is 290g for front and 304g for the rear.

I'll post again when I have actually used them 

BTW, going on my 2008 Specialized Epic Marathon build, should be sweeeeeeeeeeet! :thumbsup:

I also plan to get the XTR Matchmaker from hope this week and later on get the carbon levers.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

dparry said:


> very disappointing review 2.5/5 in latest WMB mag. strange as MBR gave them 10 a couple of issues again. My rear has just arrived to complete the set and i'm hoping the reviews are wrong. main gripe was lack of power... i never had any issue with old mono mini pros so as long as similar to that i'll be good.
> 
> PeteN, how they doing on stumpy? power an issue running the standard 160 front? i hope to get out this weekend and see that they are wrong!!! i wont be happy as sold my XXs to get them!


I saw that review, and was very surprised. The weird thing is at the bottom of the review it says that recently tested brakes will have a lower score because of the way they test things now, so all a bit crap really. The gripe was as you said, lack of power. I am not finding this and as I said earlier they are at least as powerful as my old mono mini's. They do the test to a certain pressure on the lever. The levers are short but I have no complaints whatsoever. I don't have big forearms and have no fatigue from pulling these levers, as hinted in the review. If you have to pull the brakes slightly harder, so what, it's not an issue at all for me with skinny arms.
I am not a big fan of bike radar, there reviews are often inconsistent, and the testers come from What MTB and MTB UK, both not too good in my opinion. 
Anyway I hope they live up to your expectations as you have a broader range of brake use to compare to.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6650276&postcount=167


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I just looked up MBRs review and yes they gave them 10/10 so the reviews are very mixed. Thanks for the info on the german test but who on earth would ride a set of xc race brakes in the Alps.( remember the Germans and Brits are very competetive;-) The brakes are good at what they are designed for, yes descents and drops etc but not Alpine descents. I have ridden out there many times and you need much bigger rotors and also bigger calipers. 

Dparry I look forward to your review against the xx and I genuinly think the brakes will be perfect on your S Works HT race bike, it's what they're really for. They are great for UK riding where things aren't quite so big. 

Culturesponge

I think the Hopes will struggle with your scrub rotors. The gap between pads is only just over 3mm. That being said they don't rub at all either side front or back though the Hope discs do seem very true.


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

Hmm, i have a hard time choosing beetween these and the R1s! I'd go 160/140, that's for certain! Before reading some of these accounts of poor braking power, i'd been sure i'd get the Hope, but now it seems i'm more inclined to get the Formulas...
Any thoughts?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

That test where they put down Hope Race brakes, there's something very wrong with it. For instance, Avid Codes are way below, whereas they should be right up there with Saints.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Pete N said:


> but who on earth would ride a set of xc race brakes in the Alps.


Many, many, many great races are in the Alps. Absolutely no complaints with my (xc) R1 breaks there so far.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Not really what they are designed for, that is my point. They may have tested them on major downhill sections. Don't get me wrong it may show they are not up to such demands but on what terrain they tested we will never know. I've had all sorts of brakes boil in the Alps and become useless, but it isn't particularly XC that I rode, hence the chairlifts up at certain times. Sure there is XC in the Alps but most people go beyond that.
It is akin to testing a ferrari off road and wondering why it isn't as fast as a Land Rover. This is why brake manufacturers make more than one type of brake, for different uses.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*no Hope for me*



Pete N said:


> I think the Hopes will struggle with your scrub rotors. The gap between pads is only just over 3mm. That being said they don't rub at all either side front or back though the Hope discs do seem very true.


thanks Pete

the production X2's have been a let-down for me: mediocre performance + 160mm only upfront & no trick carbon levers/res covers but the same RRP - i Hope the 2011 version will have it all nailed?

anyway, bought some ltd edition all black Formula R1's last week (less than X2's) - so will probably have to give up my slightly wobbly Scrubs anyway at least till their new rotors come out with the mag spiders


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

In contrast, the R1s behave like a Ferrari on the road and like a Land Rover offroad. The X2s may be good breaks for lowland xc conditions, however, they will always have to face comparisions with the R1 (unless they become significantly lighter). And the break is the one piece where I really do not make any compromise. Even in the midlands with descents of only 100 or 200 meters in height poor breaking power can really suck when it's wet and muddy combined with an aggressive vertical riding style.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, everyone knows the r1's punch well above their weight when it comes to stopping power and I seriously considered these, but after reading all the reviews of binding pads and their temeramental nature I couldn't be bothered. Spending too much time maintaining them really didn't appeal. The Hopes I'm sure will be as reliable as ever and the reviews vary. Mbr don't give 10/10 lightly. With two broken arms in the last 3 years I would ditch these asap if they werent up to the job, believe me. I have done some long descents in this horrible muddy winter and they have yet to let me down. So maybe I have to pull a bit harder to get the same power but this is no big deal for me. When I go to the Alps next, I won't be using them, bigger rotors and calipers for me. Enjoy your R1's


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Pete N , totally agree... the word 'Race' kind of gives the intent of these brakes away. the R1s are fantastic and i have put 'the one's' on my full suss stumpy, love em. for me, modulation and control is key for racing.... not outright stopping power. the only feedback from lack of power i have heard is from what mountain bike review.. nothing from actual users. anyhoo, i hope to see real life findings this weekend.... this isnt about 'my brake is better than your brake'.


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

dparry, definitely looking forward to your first-hand impressions, because i so badly want those Hopes, rather than the Formulas..i do so hope i won't have to get the Formulas in the end!


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Doh, the rear brake cable is not long enough to be "properly" routed on my XL Specialized Epic. Do Hope sell other length cables for the X2? I guess I will have to call them tomorrow (again for 5th time?!) haha


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Dparry
i hope you'll be happy with the brakes, especially after my review, and I think you will, they should fit the bill nicely. At least MBR agree with me ;-). Let us all know how they compare to the xx and the formulas, a real person comparison is worth a lot more than bike mags who get limited use. How is the hardtail coming along?


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Pete N said:


> Dparry
> i hope you'll be happy with the brakes, especially after my review, and I think you will, they should fit the bill nicely. At least MBR agree with me ;-). Let us all know how they compare to the xx and the formulas, a real person comparison is worth a lot more than bike mags who get limited use. How is the hardtail coming along?


Hi Pete N, the HT is finished!! sworks XX at front, SRAM X9 at back. when funds allow i will prob go to full XX. with the large tooth being a 34 currently, this will hopefully let me decide to go between the 32 or 36 in the end.

The hopes feel great so far... well the front does. the rear is spongy as heck, must have been that trans atlantic flight and needs a bleed. i cant believe they didnt put spare olives in etc for shortening... very poor (or was that just me?). not surprised some people are having tube length issues, i prob have a couple of inches to trim off rear but that routes top tube, seat stay.. pretty direct! i prob wont get out properly till weekend. what burn in did you do? hopes dont tend to be too finicky to that, so may just bomb up and down the road a few times. love the lever feel so far, and the stumpy paddle lever blade. i dont think power will be an issue. (i went 160 front and rear). may go 140 if 160 feels easily powerful enough.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

dparry, you don't absolutely need a spare olive and insert to shorten a new Hope hose. SteveUK has written a nice illustrated guide on how to do that.

http://steveukmtb.wordpress.com/hope-braided-hydraulic-brake-hose-assembly/
http://steveukmtb.wordpress.com/hope-brakes-bleeding/

I worked on my Tech X2 (when I got it new) according to Steve's guides, it's been fine since.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Sounds like that rear needs a bleed as you say, bike shop put new hose on for me and the rear was still slightly spongey, not bad by any means, compared to the front. However after the first ride it settled down brilliantly which was a bit weird and they have both felt great ever since. I bedded them in with a couple of not too steep down hills, and also down my road that has a slight slope. The pads are bearing up well so far, even with all the rain and mud we've had.


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## RWGreen (Dec 5, 2004)

Regarding the brake test - it didn't seem like they allowed for much bedding in of the pads/rotors. I've always noticed that with new Hope brakes or pads, it takes what seems like a pretty long time before they generate decent stopping power.

Anyhow - I have these brakes on a new build and haven't had a chance to try them out, but I'm a long time hope user, and have faith that they'll be ok.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

yeah, lever comes almost back to bar.... i'll get it done tonight and then hopefully burn in tomorrow. next race is 3/31 so a way off but will give me a chance to get used to them. gut impressions are good just from coasting round the area yesterday, mainly on the front (which is what i use majority of the time anyway!).


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## Bikeon (Apr 17, 2008)

dparry said:


> ... i cant believe they didnt put spare olives in etc for shortening...


As I know You can reuse olives (Hope only). I do this twice with Mono mini Pro.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

thanks guys! sweet easy low maintenance hopes!


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

dparry!
How could you describe the power and the modulation? Also how noisy are they?


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Are there any pictures of the matchmakers some of you guys are talking about?

Also, will the Race X2 calipers work with a Hope 180 mm floating disc only by getting an adapter?


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

are these what you referring to?

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=34430
Universal Cycles -- Hope Lever Direct Shifter Mounts


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## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

*1st ride impression*

I had previously been riding original Hope Minis, 165/145, for the last eight years or so. Never had a complaint or a problem with them. Do most of my riding in Texas but go to New Mexico, Utah or Colorado every summer. The Minis had good power and good modulation. Only reason I was looking to make change was to drop some weight. 
Setting the Races up, hose lengths on my medium Superlight are almost perfect. Could probably trim an inch or so but that is about it. Larger frames could require longer hose for the back. Out of the box, both ends required a bleed. Lever would go to the bar. The Race is much easier to bleed than the Minis. Bleed both ends in less than five minutes with zero mess. 
I bedded in the brakes using Steveukmtb's method using water. Took all of ten minutes and they were grabbing great. Within 15 minutes of riding the trail, the Races were good to go. The brakes had good power with excellent modulation. One finger braking is easy which is a good thing. I run XO gripshift and the brake levers are so short that one finger is all I can get on the lever. I run carbon Monkey light with 1/2 cut off each end. ESI grips that are trimmed to just under 4 inches. I was surprised at the power these brakes had. Compared to the minis, the pad contact with the rotor is about half and the calipers are smaller, yet the Race would haul down high speed quickly and very controlled. Zero noise and no rubbing. I also use a remote lockout for my Fox fork. With the Minis, the lockout was a perfect distance from the shifter to easily reach and lockout. With the Race clamp setup, a diamond shape, and the resevor being a little closer to the bar, pushes the lockout away a little more from the shifter and slightly lowers the lockout lever from earlier position. This probably won't be a problem with triggers. 
The Race X2 are one of the few parts that I paid full retail for(and my Middleburn duo). I usually wait a couple years after something comes out and get it on closeout/sell or pick it up on fleabay. After paying almost full price for these and riding them, I would do it again. Or I wished I had picked up a set of the Pros before they were gone if they are anything like the Race. I probably could have waited a little while and picked up a pair of Pros on fleabay but I am happy with the purchase. And they look tits. I also purchased a set of Ashima rotors that will be going on my second set of wheels. Going to get a set of sintered pads for those and let you know how those work.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

i sorted the rear out, bled it and filled the reservoir with the pads pretty well out. seemed to give the feel i want a bit better. havent been out properly yet but are running drag free and dry are very quiet. as per most hopes the modulation seems excellent. 1st stress test is end of month race, more feedback after that. power on road seems OK, so should translate to be even better in the muck.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

yes, they will need a 180 adapter to fit to your IS or PM. i would think no reason why standard hope adapter would not work just fine. i will defo get the matchmakers when i can get round to it.... very used to the tidy cockpit of XX now.


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## mattyb2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

dparry, any word on how they compare to the xx brakes. Trying to decided betweeen avid elixir mags (basically xx except calliper) and hope race....

(Hi Pete N, the HT is finished!! sworks XX at front, SRAM X9 at back. when funds allow i will prob go to full XX. with the large tooth being a 34 currently, this will hopefully let me decide to go between the 32 or 36 in the end.)

are you running xx crankset with x9 rear running gear? is this compatable?


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

@ santacruzflyer, what is Bedding the brakes in with water?? And how do you do it or what is the function of it? Never heard of it...


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## afolks (Jul 3, 2009)

From steveukmtb.wordpress.com :

"Bedding in is the process whereby the surfaces of the pads and rotor wear away a little until the profiles of each match each other. As the pads are the ’softer’ of the two materials, their surfaces will be carved out to match the profile of the rotor as it rotates, although some microscopic changes will also occur on the rotor surfaces. Once they have bedding into the rotor, the effectiveness of the pads is at its best. Here’s my method for bedding my brakes in…

Refit the pads head outside with a bottle or pint glass of fresh, clean tap water. Get up a head of steam and brake hard. Pour water liberally over the caliper. Pedal off again, this time with the brake applied lightly. As you pedal you’re going to feel the pads bedding in to the rotor. Keep going, pulling the brake gradually harder as you have to pedal harder. Do this for 20-30m and then pour water of the caliper again. Repeat a mix of hard stops, water; brake/pedal, water until your brakes are how you like them. I can get both of my brakes bedded in in under 10mins using this method. They’ll improve further after a little trail time, but at least you’ll have decent braking to begin with."


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

i wont get a chance to use fully till next w/e, as im travelling currently. there is more movement in the throw than the xx so am expecting slightly better modulation, but initial impression is slightly down on power. i cant confirm this till get out on 21st. PeteN has them on his sworks FSR and likes them a lot.

Yes, i'm running XX front with 10 spd chain on X9, pg990 cassette at the back. works fine. i'll go to XX full when funds allow.


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## doismellbacon (Sep 20, 2007)

*Race X2 vs Tech X2 ?*

Hey guys. I've been loving the Tech X2's I bought a few months ago, but the extreme width of the lever/MC/clamp assembly forced me off of my preferred handlebars. It looks like the Race's may solve my ergonomic issue while allowing me to continue using these excellent Hope stoppers...and drop a couple hundred grams! So my question to you fine fellows is, how wide is the Race X2 lever assembly? When I measure along the handlebar from the inside edge of the clamp, to the end of the lever, I get about 125mm on the Tech lever. See pic. Would someone be kind enough to post a similar pic of their Race levers.


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## sjees (Mar 28, 2009)

I have no picture of it(because i am a noob with placing pics etc. at forums) but from the widest part of the clamp too the end of the lever it is 90mm.
I measured it the same way you measure it at your picture.
I hope you can do something with these information.


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## doismellbacon (Sep 20, 2007)

sjees said:


> I have no picture of it(because i am a noob with placing pics etc. at forums) but from the widest part of the clamp too the end of the lever it is 90mm.
> I measured it the same way you measure it at your picture.
> I hope you can do something with these information.


Thanks sjees! You've made me a happy man! I'm glad Hope took that into account in the new lever design.... that 35mm difference is huge. So, once I get a new TA fork & 650b front wheel, the next change will be Race X2 brakes.


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## retrokonarider (Dec 27, 2009)

Any further inpressions on the race x2's. Want to get them but concerned about the power of them. Magazine reviews vary so much. Should I stick with tech x2's and stomach the extra weight?


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

I would say not to worry about the lack of power. I'm riding them a few weeks now and they perform great! Stopping power is really great considered the 160 mm discs short handles and low weight! They have at least the same performance as the new mini's I had before.


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## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

The Race's are grrreat! I do not even think about them being on any more. Great modulation and power. Have raced with them that had some good downhill sections and also very technical sections and they performed perfect. Still not a sound out of them. I have put on my everyday/backcountry wheels which are considerably heavier(721rims/14g spokes) and the extra weight has not made any difference. Will get a chance to see how they handle long downhills this summer when I take them to CO and New Mexico.


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## retrokonarider (Dec 27, 2009)

Cheers for the feedback guys - I prefer user reviews to mag reviews. 

Glad you said they perform as I ordered them for my custom build today:thumbsup:


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I have pasted below MBR's review of the x2 race brakes. My opinions are still very high and I have been riding them for 2 1/2 months now in a wet UK winter. I am still on the original pads and there is still no rubbing/ binding. The stopping power is still very good in my opinion. I can take the wheel off and put it back on and the rotors still run freely. They only ever squeel when it's pissing down and even then they're not bad. I paid £320.00 for the pair and am very happy and as others have said, have forgotten about them completely which I guess means total trust.

Brake: Hope Race X2 
Price: £195 
Weight: brake 197g Floating 160mm rotor 78g 
System weight: 290g Fixed, floating or 3-bolt rotors 
Contact: www.hopetech.com

The new Race X2 will supersede the Mini X2 Pro as Hope's cross-country/lightweight trail brake. It gets the same X2 caliper and titanium hardware as the Pro but an updated carbon composite lever and reservoir cap. The lever is actually 5mm shorter than previously, but because Hope has moved the pivot closer to the handlebar it offers the same amount of leverage and doesn't feel much different in use. Hope has also ditched that ugly Nyloc 8mm nut on the underside of the lever on the new brake in favour of a sleeker cir-clip system, again to save weight. Reach adjustment can still be done on the trail with a standard multi-tool, no messing about with single Allen keys or ball-ends. A split clamp is for ease of fitting and removal, and the bolts are now lighter aluminium. If you want to save more weight you can ditch the stock clamps for the £20 (a set) aftermarket shifter lever clamps, these allow you to mount Shimano XT, XTR and SRAM XO shifter pods directly to the brakes.

At the caliper end things haven't changed, apart from lighter, aluminium backing plates for the disc pads, which might not sound like much but it saves 10-15g in weight per end! 
One of the reasons the Hope was the lightest brake in the lightweight disc brake grouptest two years ago was that it had a thinner rotor; 1.8mm rather than the standard 2.0mm. The 140 and 160mm rotors are still 1.8mm but are available in a floating design - the stainless steel braking surface is riveted to an aluminium carrier. Hope says you can upsize to a 183mm rotor but this is only available in 2.0mm. Hope even offers three-bolt rotors to bolt directly to Hope's Pro 3 SP-XC3 hubs.

There have been some wild currency fluctuations since we tested the original Mono Mini Pro and, while the Race is £20 per end more expensive than the Pro, XTR is now a whopping £218 per end. So the Race is better value, sleeker, but offers the same light feel at the lever, reliability and ease of servicing. If you're thinking about a new set of brakes 
for your race bike or lightweight trail bike the simple and user-friendly Hope Race is in my opinion one of the best competition brakes on the market.

Mbr rating: 10

Subscribe to mbr today and take advantage of our great offers


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## Rogntudju (Sep 15, 2007)

Crossmaxx said:


> Are there any pictures of the matchmakers some of you guys are talking about?


XTR version :









SRAM Version :











Crossmaxx said:


> Also, will the Race X2 calipers work with a Hope 180 mm floating disc only by getting an adapter?


Yes !


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

just come back from Sea Otter and had no problems with them, running 160/160. i think they have bedded in nicely now, and as people say i dont even think about them anymore. very happy with them and matchmakers worked well. still toying with removing all uncessary cable length to firm up the feel a little..... but cant help but think 'if it aint broke, dont fix it!'


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Any word if hope will offerring the carbon lever and carbon caps? Or when they will cutting it into production?

Reason why I'm holding off is I don't want to have to pay twice to get carbon levers and caps as they had originally intended for this kit.


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Any word if hope will offerring the carbon lever and carbon caps? Or when they will cutting it into production?
> 
> Reason why I'm holding off is I don't want to have to pay twice to get carbon levers and caps as they had originally intended for this kit.


I emailed them a month or so ago about the carbon levers and they had no ETA for them.


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## Rogntudju (Sep 15, 2007)

Except for bling touch, carbon caps and levers are totally useless on master cylinders. Hope first tryed to release the brake with these carbon parts but reliability problems appeared. Until these problems are resolved (if they can be) they won't offer that option.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Rogntudju said:


> Except for bling touch, carbon caps and levers are totally useless on master cylinders. Hope first tryed to release the brake with these carbon parts but reliability problems appeared. Until these problems are resolved (if they can be) they won't offer that option.


completely agree, i dont see the point at all, they work perfectly (and look great!!) as is. get a lighter tube/tire/go tubeless and save some real weight where it counts.


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## RWGreen (Dec 5, 2004)

I finally got my first ride in where I could really test these with some longer downhills, and they were great. I didn't find them to feel much different than previous versions of mono minis or the pros. Good modulation, good enough power for cross country - not noticeably less than previous versions, and definitely better than the only other non-hope brake I've tried, which were formula oro puros. Ride was not in serious mountains, but more like foothills style where you trade 400-500 foot elevation gains. 3500 feet of climbing and same descending in a 25 mile loop.

My only complaint is that I wish hope could figure out a way to get these true from the factory. I set up my bike and a friend's, and in both cases the rotors had some serious wobbles. Also - factory bleed sucked a$$. Luckily they are damn easy to work on.


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

Rogntudju said:


> SRAM Version :


anyone know whether this will work with XX shifters?


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## Rogntudju (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes, it works with XX, X0 and X9 triggers.


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## nathanbal (Jan 30, 2007)

excellent. anyone know where you can buy these online?


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

The levers are a little rough on the feel for my fingers. I have the mini pro, and those carbon levers feel really nice on the fingers. The drilled holes on these x2 levers give too many tactile points. I love the brakes and would love to buy a pair.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

they sure do... i have them on mine. the provided screw is a little long and required a couple of washers to get a firm lock. used them at a 24hr race at w/e... worked fine.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

*Race X2 at Cool 24hr*

completed the Cool 24hr team in CA at the weekend... first extended use of the Hope's in longer race conditions.

Course was just under 12 miles with 1500ft of climbing, therefore descending per lap... 4 or 5 extended mud/boggy sections with 3-4 creek crossings... descents were split between single track and 30+mph double track/fireroads. A real test! i started with worn pads as well.

They were great, i'm running 160/160 and didnt even think about wanting more power... there was slight squeal after the wet sections but that disappeared soon enough every lap. the feel stayed consistent throughout, the levers were great, i really like the broad blade and drilled holes, very useful when wet. very happy with the purchase. There is still some pad left but i'm looking to order some spares. pretty impressive considering the conditions and the use they had had previously.

And we came 2nd in the open class to boot!!


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Glad the brakes are up to expectations and not letting you down in your races, I'm also finding them plenty powerful enough and very reliable. I'm getting no binding of any type, even with the pads sitting so close to the dics, very happy.

I am interested to see how they compare to the XX's and R1's which if I remember correctly you have both. I am guessing for out and out stopping power without having to pull the lever too hard the R1's win, but how about feel etc, and also compared to the XX's?.
Hope you're enjoying your last few months in the US.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

i have XX still on another anthem and like them too, they bite quicker and are stronger but dont have the feel of the Hope's (or looks!) IMHO. I have forumla the ONES on FSR and really like them, crazy power on 180/160 and very light! cant imagine the R1s being too different. i just love the fit and forget nature of the Hope's.

US maybe extended till 2011, not sure yet! but defo back in July for Bontrager 24/12


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

Does anyone know how lever length compares to mini x2 pro these replaced? Are they shorter?


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Still very pleased with the brakes a few months on. There is no drag whatsoever, they are plently powerful enough and have a great lever feel and look great too. Pleased I didn't go for the R1's, although very powerful, the dragging issues appear to continue and it would drive me crazy forever fiddling with them, to keep them running free, I just want to ride the bike, and the hopes tick all the boxes for me.


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

Pete, thanks for the update. Looking like these may be the right choice for me. I am also leaning towards getting the matchmaker for my xtr shfiters.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Pete N said:


> Still very pleased with the brakes a few months on. There is no drag whatsoever, they are plently powerful enough and have a great lever feel and look great too. Pleased I didn't go for the R1's, although very powerful, the dragging issues appear to continue and it would drive me crazy forever fiddling with them, to keep them running free, I just want to ride the bike, and the hopes tick all the boxes for me.


no dragging problems here with 2 sets of Formula R1's here - even when using slightly wobbly Scrub rotors

i'm told dragging (also leaking at the bar mount) was an issue with a small batch of the 1st produced in late 2008

what i dislike the most about Hope Race X2 is the tiny baby sized levers (apart from the ugly design + graphics) - how do you peeps manage with the ergonomics of those tiny little levers?

........edit to add quote.....


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

double post - server must be busy


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Great to hear! My set has been sitting in customs for 4 days, 10 minutes away from my house. Dying to try them out!


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

The sponge has spoken! Suppose when I have mine mounted up I will get over the "lever envy" when I fly past the guy with the R1's. All in good fun of course.


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

CHSAD said:


> The sponge has spoken! Suppose when I have mine mounted up I will get over the "lever envy" when I fly past the guy with the R1's. All in good fun of course.


From my experance the only lever envy will be from R1 users i loved my race x2 levers,
my R1 levers just dont feel as nice


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

properly set-up there is no rub with Formula R1 brakes

...if your rotors rub go get a rotor straightening tool or have your LBS set-up your brakes properly for you :thumbsup:

lightness + power + looks + ergonomics are key features with R1's - also ours were alot cheaper than Race x2's

July MBA just gave the Hope x2 race brakes a 2 star review 

...edit to clarify........


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

Ouch! The sponge strikes back! Seriously though, have you heard what they say about guy's with short levers?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

best not to use brakes anyway - they only slow you down :thumbsup:


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

All in good fun, I hope. R1's are kick ass brakes, and from what I have gathered many people are like the Race X2's. Mountain Bike Fiction did not but MBR did. Bike Radar loved the R1 but weren't crazy about the Race X2. The best brake is the one that fits your style, budget and of course works consistently. We should all just be happy we aren't on the "my avids make turkey noise thread".


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

The ergonomics of the levers are great, feel every bit as good as the longer mono mini's. I think they look the business too. If you have small hands( I always go for women with small hands) it might be a problem but otherwise not. It's a shame if what you say about the R1's is true that they just need setting up better as too many are ditching them. Maybe they are just very Italian, very good but a bit tempremental.
Reviews of everything are so inconsistent. One reviewers dream is anothers nightmare, which is why I tend to listen to everyday users rather than journolists.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*no hope for me*



CHSAD said:


> All in good fun, I hope..


hurrah the CHSAD has spoken! (again)

i've 2010 Hope Race X2 160mm rotors here, they are just 1.6mm thick - no wonder they never rub :thumbsup:

no-one bothered to answer my question on this thread months ago about Hope Race X2 pad retraction - does anyone know now?

i was all set to purchase Hope Race X2 brakes (and support British innovation) and waited months for them - but they do not deliver, here's hoping X3's will be better.

here's that review from bikeradar: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/disc-brake-systems/product/race-x2-10-37487

not sure how relevant the charts are, but there's similarities in journalistic opinion with the (normally highly complimentary) MBA review further up this thread


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*(pre-release?) mbr hope race x2 review*

in fairness here is the mbr.uk review that explains why the x2 brake levers are so titchy

but i don't think the journalist who wrote this actually had a set to try out (carbon levers?)

enjoy your bikes + be safe :thumbsup:


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I actually think that many reviews relate to products not tested first hand and Bike Radar have been guilty of this in the past. The brakes certainly do deliver as far as me and many others have stated and the set and forget nature of the brakes is scores extra points for me. Dparry is happy with his, mainly for these reasons and states they are plently powerful enough for his racing. They don't rub or have the same problems that the competition have, as stated before and people are still getting these problems with the 2010 versions with the apparently truer rotors,which isn't good. It's just good we are both pleased with our brakes, but neither of us would swap for different reasons. I know the power of the R1's is unrivalled for the size of the brake and they punch above their weight in this respect, but I could do without all the dragging issues. I just have to pull a touch harder to stop as quickly, but my puney forearms/fingers seem up to it. The hope pistons retract very little, they sit fractionally off the rotors, but the retraction is so consistent and even, they don't rub.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Pete N said:


> I actually think that many reviews relate to products not tested first hand and Bike Radar have been guilty of this in the past. The brakes certainly do deliver as far as me and many others have stated and the set and forget nature of the brakes is scores extra points for me. Dparry is happy with his, mainly for these reasons and states they are plently powerful enough for his racing. They don't rub or have the same problems that the competition have, as stated before and people are still getting these problems with the 2010 versions with the apparently truer rotors,which isn't good. It's just good we are both pleased with our brakes, but neither of us would swap for different reasons. I know the power of the R1's is unrivalled for the size of the brake and they punch above their weight in this respect, but I could do without all the dragging issues. I just have to pull a touch harder to stop as quickly, but my puney forearms/fingers seem up to it. The hope pistons retract very little, they sit fractionally off the rotors, but the retraction is so consistent and even, they don't rub.


with all due respect to Mr. Chumley Warner who wrote the MBR review that gave Hope Race x2's 10 out of 10 - without even testing them (unlike Bike Radar & MBA)

PeteN, one last time - not all Formula R1 brakes suffer from drag or rub - not ours at least! - even when using SwissStop's @ 1/3 thicker than Formula pads

also Formula brakes are also not stereotypicially Italian in nature & do not need constant fiddling about for optimum performance (e.g. like a mid 70's FIAT) - they were much easier to set-up than 09 Marta's

..wouldn't buy R1's again though - like Dparry my money would be on 2010 The One

PeteN, really glad you are chuffed with your brakes - really :thumbsup:

.....edit for terrible grammer + spelling.....


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Very pleased you have found the two sets of R1's that don't  . Mr Chumley Warner is a stickler for tradition and finds the Hopes truly wonderful, hates Italians though.


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

Sponge, pretty impressive collection of items that you have weighed. How do you get a hold of so much product?


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I just finished my first ride on Hope Race X2s. It's a 160/140 combo. The pads are not bedded in yet, but the performance is still better than I got with XTR 975s on WindCutters. I think I'll bump it up to a 160/160 for piece-of-mind in the back. There's no reason to toast a rotor to save 16 grams.
Hope Floating 160 = 79g
Hope Floating 140 = 63g


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

I just got some Race X2. After a few weeks of riding, I'll post a full review. I'll measure the levers, compared to the Pros. The X2 levers are shorter. I did move the brakes closer to my grips, than my Formula K24s, but haven't had a problem with room.

What I love about the Hope Mini Pros, and hopefully the Race X2 will also live up to, is the pad retraction. After almost 3 years of LOTS of riding, my Mini Pros are still lovely, and I've never done a single thing to them other than put in pads. In that same time, I've gone through a pair of Marta SL and K24s. Both were great brakes to start, then pad retraction became ridiculous and I ended up with lots of drag.

For those that have the R1, I wonder how you tollerate the lever/master cylinder flex. When I grab the lever and pull, I can see the whole master and clamp bend. It is not a lot, but...


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*spooky*



rensho said:


> For those that have the R1, I wonder how you tollerate the lever/master cylinder flex. When I grab the lever and pull, I can see the whole master and clamp bend. It is not a lot, but...


lol

??? you see R1 master cylinders flex when you pull on the levers ??? (what brake fluid makes them that stiff to draw!)

...or is it magic mushroom season already?

that's some perceptive skills you have there rensho :thumbsup: - totally wasted on mtb

so then do all Formula master cylinders/levers flex? as they (mostly) now have adopted the R1 design

very suprised you had pad retraction problems with Marta's? (they have masses compared to most brakes on the market) were the piston seals on the way out or were your rotors just cooked/shagged?

you should also compare the x2 levers with XX - they seem titchy too

best


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

hey guys, i got a couple questions: first, will the goodridge brake hose that fits on the mono mini fit on the race x2? And had anybody experienced any rubbing issues on their brakes? thanks in advance

-Jordan


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Just got mine. Started to get them mounted last night.

Newb question: Having never installed post-mount brakes with adaptors before, which adaptor goes to the front, and which to the rear. The design of each looks slightly different. One is labeled A, and one is labeled F. Not sure if there is a difference between the two, one would assume F is for Front, but I don't know what A stands for. Any help would be great!

Did anyone need to bleed these right off the bat?


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)




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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Perfect! Thanks Crossmaxx! That helps me out greatly!


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I used "A" for my back 140mm.
I used nothing for my front PostMount 160mm.

I bleed them with DOT4 right away, since I shortened the hoses.
Be careful. That little brass washer falls off the barb at the top lever/hose interface.
I lost one cuz it went flying. I put it back together without the brass washer, and it was fine. Universalcycles.com wants $2 each.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

egebhardt said:


> I used "A" for my back 140mm.
> I used nothing for my front PostMount 160mm.
> 
> I bleed them with DOT4 right away, since I shortened the hoses.
> ...


Thanks! That is good to know. I was watching the service video to shorten hoses and he recommended the same thing about the brass washer. I will keep an eye out for that.

The LBS told me to use Dot5.1. I've only ever dealt with mineral oil before, is there a difference?


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

Mineral oil is only for Shimano and Magura.
Dot4/5.1 is for cars and motorcycles.
Dot4 is cheap and easy to find and totally acceptable.
Dot5.1 is at motorcycle shops and costs 4x more, roughly.
I live at sea-level, so the odds of me boiling either may be impossible.
Alegedly, Dot5.1 has a higher boiling point.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

culturesponge said:


> lol
> 
> ??? you see R1 master cylinders flex when you pull on the levers ??? (what brake fluid makes them that stiff to draw!)
> 
> ...


Wow. I know this is a discussion about brakes, but the comments above I find very abrasive...


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

I ask if others have noticed the R1 clamp moving because that can be affect modulation.
Keep in mind I only have a few rides on R1s, and don't own them.

When the R1 came out, I admired how svelte the master cyl was. They did a great job of minimizing everything. Additionally, I noticed how narrow the clamping surface(width) is. When you squeeze the lever, the leverage ratio of the lever to the clamping width is large, hence putting a hotspot on your handlebar. That high leverage ratio also generates gap/play on the clamping surface. 

Yes, Formula has adopted the same, or simular master cyl across their product line. (There's a small chance the flex is removed via using steel clamp bolts, or a slightly thicker rear clamping plate)

Brakes have gone to monobloc castings/cnc/forgings to remove any possible flex(and remove weight) in the caliper, in the name of increasing modulation. The x2 and R1 and marta SL are great examples of this.
So, if the master cylinder/lever apparatus yields as you pull on it, this affects my modulation as well. My brain tells my hands that pulling on the lever isn't having the desired and expected affect of slowing down the wheel. This happens whether the cause is lever, caliper, fluid boil/air or chainstay flex.

The design of the Hope X2 clamp doesn't 'look' too much better to me, but the apparatus doesn't move. I know the FEA'd that clamp design before releasing it, which likely told them that flex won't be an issue.

Don't get me wrong about the R1s. I don't have them, I am not bagging on them(i hear the rotors are excellent). I just asked a simple question and was looking for feedback from the owners on that singular item.

Lastly, I'm a rider first, and WW second or third. I gave up on WW a couple years ago due to realizing silly trade-offs on durability and reliability, VS weight. Additional, I was spending spare time lightening/breaking parts, rather than riding. When good reliable products are light, that's cream on the cake and they end up on my bike.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

rensho said:


> Don't get me wrong about the R1s. I don't have them, I am not bagging on them(i hear the rotors are excellent). I just asked a simple question and was looking for feedback from the owners on that singular item.


oh?

...well in that case if you were "not bagging on them" (R1's) and wanted information - go post your question on an R1 thread & not on this Race x2 thread

please just enjoy your bikes & stop this R1 bad x2 good unconstructive childishness - Hope would never put rubbish brakes on the market, also same for Formula

PeteN & rensho just for you here's a "have your cake & eat it" review of R1's

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/z...EARCH_RESULTS&SHOW_TYPE=TRUE&QUERY=formula R1

......edit to add link......

now back to Hope Race x2 discussion


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

I agree rensho, abrasive +1. Pretty sure that most people here are looking for info on the X2. I don't feel like anyone was bagging on the R1. Refferring to someone's talents being wasted and questioning their use of mushrooms? Let's get back to getting info the Hope X2.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> hey guys, will the goodridge brake hose that fits on the mono mini, fit on the race x2?


Anyone know? The fittings look the same i just want to confirm it


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and and no need for people to fall out over it. As the posh bloke out of the film 'Lock, stock and two smoking barrels' said "Chill Winston"


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Got mine all setup on my new build this weekend:


















Had to bleed them out of the box, first time bleeding a Hope. I like that all the parts are reusable. Much simpler than bleeding my Magura's. Levers feel nice and firm now. Just gotta bed them in now!


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

Well, I just ordered some race x2s at wiggle for $430 with free shipping, and also got some Goodridge hoses, everything should be here sometime in the next two weeks. Hopefully these will be better than my r1s. Im still al little worried about the power of these things though...


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

Shame you had to get rid of the R1's. I have the X2 races and have been very happy with 
them and find them plenty powerful enough. I ride aggressive XC, but not anything too lively and they have been great, if you ride Mountain areas I couldn't comment on how they perform. Sure a Goodridge Hose upgrade will definitely make them more powerful than standard anyway. I personally haven't needed to, although I was planning to when I bought them.
I had the chance to ride my mates Lapierre yesterday with 2009 R1's on them. The R1's certainly have alot of power very early on in the lever pull, but stop you just the same as the Hopes, although you have to pull the lever further on the Hopes. 
I like the modulation and feel of the lever on the Hopes better, and I felt I could control the braking better. It may well be because I am used to them. I struggled to feed on gentle/control braking with the R1's due to the power being so early on in the pull, but the power you get for the minimal pull on the R1's is pretty amazing. The brakes stop as well as each other with their relative pull.
I wouldn't worry about lack of power, but as I say you have to pull the lever a bit further and harder, but this isn't an issue. The goodridges will make the Hopes even more powerful.
I look forward to your thoughts as someone who will have owned and ridden both a fair amount.
Many could like the lever pull/feel of the R1's but I guess this comes down to personal preference.
I have to say that his brakes barely dragged/rubbed and he bought it off a bike mechanic
His front ran freely and his rear rubbed a touch but didn't slow the wheel down, so certainly not all R1's suffer problems.


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Hello,

Does anyone knows if the X2 Race rotors are thinner than the normal Hope floating rotors, like the old Pro's?
Or even better, does anyone knows the thinness of the rotors?

Best Regards
X.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

They are 1.8mm, just like the old pros. I measured mine when I got them and they were 1.8. They are probably a bit less now they have had a few months hard use.


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Thank you for the quick answer, Pete N.

Best Regards
X.


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

R1's v X2's

I've owned both, Race x2's on my old spark before some boat anchor stole it and R1's on my new spark both are 160/140's

If i was building from scratch i would go with the Race X2's no question just for the fact that they have a decent amount of modulation wheres the R1's are pretty much on or off.

The Hopes lever feels quality and solid and for me perfect the R1's on the other-hand feel like they are going to break on the first off lever design takes some getting used to.

I couldn't use formulas matchmake with them as the shifters would be to far from the grip, which brings me on to costs formula pricing is sky high hopes very resembled.

Would i spend near on £400 on the Hopes to replace the R1's ??????


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I think I may have a problem after 2 rides with my brakes, but I am not sure how to fix it (if I can).

It appears the dust seal has come partly detached and is not seated fully on my rear brake lever. The front cover is fixed in place and doesn't move. The rear lever's cover is not sitting flush, kind of moves when you squeeze the lever and the lever makes a squeaking sound. I'm assuming the seals are ok on the master cylinder because the lever still feels firm but it would be good to fix this.

How can i remove the lever w/o the master cylinder popping out to examine the problem. I come from a Magura background where you need to prevent the cylinder for popping out when you remove the lever so I may be out to lunch.

Any help would be awesome!


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Tom you got a picture?


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Quick video coming shortly.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

It may be a little hard to see but the dust cap is not flush to the base where it is supposed to sit and is moving with the brake lever and causing that squeaking sound. Just not sure how to re-seat that dust cap.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

On further inspection it seems like the dust cap is getting snagged by the threads on the reach adjust bolt and pulling the cap up. This only happens on one of the levers. Not sure how to correct this.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

from the picture above (depending on how brave you are).

I would unthread the M3x8mm dome head bolt (mid left location of image). Which then should allow you to remove the brass barrel. Once the brass barrel is out, the lever should be able to swing forward giving you access to inspect the mini disc cover. I would then take that out and inspect to see if it is torn. If it is not, I would place it aside. Then put the brass barrel back in and the dome M3x8mm bolt back on and cycle the lever to see if you still get that squish sound. If not that it is most likely the dust boot was not position correctly in that it wasn't bottomed out against the stop plate.

If the squish sound is still there I would suspect you have an issue with the internals of the lever. Meaning the secondary piston seal or primary piston seal could be bypassing fluid or is slightly rolled up when the manufacturer installed the lever assembly together. Don't you have warranty?


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I'm sure I have warranty, I just thought if it was just the dust cap I could fix without having to get a whole new lever or whatever.

Thanks for that diagram, I will see what I can do.

If I remove that dome head bolt, nothing is going to come apart at the piston will it?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

probably not. There is a spring that preloads the piston to the lever which allows the lever to spring back when you stop squeezing. If the spring is strong and stiff... than the adjuster screw and the piston will slide out of the bore. I don't think it will come shooting out. Worse case is it comes out of the bore slightly. Brake fluid leaks out. You trouble shoot. Slide the piston back into the bore. Put the adjuster screw back in, and the brass barrel back in. Wash off the spilled brake fluid. Rebleed your brakes. 

Probably a good idea to wash your brake lever with some soap and water + a tooth brush before taking things apart. You don't want dirt getting anywhere inside a brake lever body.

I have not taken apart a hope brake lever before... so I don't speak from experience. Just from an engineering's view point.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

That or just use a coffee stir stick and see if you can push the dust cap to bottom out against the stop plate.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I tried pushing it back, every time I pull the lever, the threads seem to catch the cap and pull it back up. Really weird. Not sure if I am brave enough to dismantle


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Call Hope USA and ask for help.

US Independent Distributor
Hope Technology USA Inc.
1414 S. Frazier St.
Ste 110
Conroe
TX 77301
USA
Phone: +1 936 756 5004
Fax: +1 936 756 5017
Email: [email protected]


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

wow super quick shipping from wiggle.co.uk. I ordered on the 6th and got em yesterday the 10th. All the way from the uk to California only 4 days! Just started to bed them in today. Front w/o rotor was 199g uncut and rear was 210g uncut. These things look super trick, love all the cnc work. cant wait to ride them


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

*the mandatory pics....*

The mandatory pics.....


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

one more


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Not sure if of interest too anyone, saw this on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hope-Brake-Carb...tu=UCC&otn=20&ps=63&clkid=7784125061996934955


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

those levers won't work for the RaceX2 brakes.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*a g8 thread very infomative*

I'm upgrading from xt v's on CK classics to the hope race x2's complete with a pro 2 hub set, mavic 717 disk rims & DT revolution spokes. :thumbsup: 
Should I go 160 front/rear or 160/140 combo. My bike is a custom steel frame, I weigh 190lbs & ride CC only.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I can't imagine going 140mm on these. While I really like the brakes, the certainly don't feel near as grippy as my Marta's with the same size rotors. I'm hoping mine will get a little grippier over time.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I would have to comment on the 140mm statement. I have not ridden the X2 Race, but for the X2 Pro I have, I feel that 160 and 140mm are perfect for cross country racing. If we were having to go through 2 hour decents sustained I would opt for more rotor diameter and different brakes all together.


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> I would have to comment on the 140mm statement. I have not ridden the X2 Race, but for the X2 Pro I have, I feel that 160 and 140mm are perfect for cross country racing. If we were having to go through 2 hour decents sustained I would opt for more rotor diameter and different brakes all together.


I have the X2 race in the 160/140 combo on my '08 Epic Marathon and have no complaints. I weigh 190lbs and most of my riding is XC racing in Northern California, I do about 30-35 races a season with probably a dozen or so recreational rides thrown into my schedule (when it permits )

I got the bike/brakes back in Feb/April and just replaced the rear brake pads in May, the early race season races are rough on the bike, lots of mud & water. The brakes made noise when wet but everyone elses brakes were noisey as well. You could hear people's brakes throughout the woods and know if your coming up to someone or someone is coming in from behind, a good indicator to speed up!

I'm going to take this bike to Downieville this year, which will give the brakes a brutal test! Last year, I did it on my hardtail with XTR front disc brake and Avid V-brake on the rear.


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Yeah this brake can get a bit loud in the wet. 

iRoNeTik: how long did it take you to bed in the brakes fully? I've got about 80 km of singletrack riding on these, and while the lever feel is super firm, the stopping power isn't all that much. Just don't know how much more power to expect.

Modulation is great, but when you need shear power to lock up the wheels, you really need to pull hard on the levers, at least compared to my Marta's, they seem like they have about 2/3 of the power.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

*+1*



nspace said:


> Yeah this brake can get a bit loud in the wet.
> 
> iRoNeTik: how long did it take you to bed in the brakes fully? I've got about 80 km of singletrack riding on these, and while the lever feel is super firm, the stopping power isn't all that much. Just don't know how much more power to expect.
> 
> Modulation is great, but when you need shear power to lock up the wheels, you really need to pull hard on the levers, at least compared to my Marta's, they seem like they have about 2/3 of the power.


What he said...


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

So... just under a month on these brakes. Both dust-covers have come detached on both brake levers. I am still trying to figure out why Hope attached these things with glue. Hope has sent me a new one and they were super good about it. I guess I am going to need another one.

I am hoping some other owners of these brakes can check to see if they have had the same problems. I certainly haven't put these brakes through anything that should cause them grief.

Essentially you need to look into the lever where the reach adjustment screw goes, and ensure that the black rubber dust cap, that surrounds the piston, is attached to the silver stop plate.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

all fixed?


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Nope. I'm not installing the first until I get a second one for the other lever. This is so lame that these things have both come detached. The fact that I have to pull these things apart to fix brakes that are like a month old is annoying.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

i've been using these on my HT race bike and love the feel.... they are suffering a bit however, levers have some vertical slack/movement on both sides around the pivot, more than they had to start with. power is not great either, i wouldn't use these on my trail bike or on rapid descending courses.

I rode at Boggs 8hr on saturday, some pretty fast rocky, dusty descents... glad i had my formula's for that.

As a pure XC/short track brake, its excellent... but not for much esle imho.


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

dparry said:


> I rode at Boggs 8hr on saturday, some pretty fast rocky, dusty descents... glad i had my formula's for that.
> 
> As a pure XC/short track brake, its excellent... but not for much esle imho.


I was at Boggs too (awesome course) , part of a 4 man 24 hour team, I also did Boggs 8 hour solo in April as well and Downieville last weekend with my X2 Race brakes and I had no issues, I love these brakes, I even got the 140mm in the back. Although I didn't do much braking at Boggs, but I definately did at Downieville.

Wonder why the differing experiences


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Love the feel of the brakes, but they definitely lack power. 

Can you guys who have X2's give your dust caps a quick check to ensure that they are still attached to the stop plate. Its the rubber piece that goes around the reach adjustment screw to keep dirt away from the piston.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

great wasn't it!!! once the dust settled, it was the best course i've ridden this year... hope to go back in August!

I dont know, personal preference must have something to do with it, plus i'm 190 so need big stoppers. The formulas definitely have more power, but i don't doubt i could easily have done the race with the Hopes but to achieve same power, they would require a lot firmer pull!

The Formula's just feel that bit more solid and I like the initial harder bite.


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## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

I have been using these brakes(160/140) since Thanksgiving and they have performed great. Granted here in Texas we don't have the long screaming downhills but I just got back from a week in Colorado where they do. Rode a couple days in Salida including Monarch Crest and had zero problems. Got caught one day in a storm that dropped the temp 30 degrees in 10 minutes and included rain hail and snow. Brakes howled like crazy but worked like it was dry. Rode a couple days in Breckenridge. Rode Loop 1 and 2 of the Breck 100. The downhill off the back of Wheeler Pass is fast and treacherous. I would haul ass jump on the brakes for the technical section, let off the brakes and haul for the next one. Never a thought about slowing down or if I was going to make it. Same with the CO Trail down hill on Loop 2. Screaming downhill with tight switchbacks. I would carry insane speed until the last second, jump on the brakes, whip through the corner and on to the next one the same way. Never a thought about my brakes. My buddy was riding XX; he complained a little about them before the ride but that was the last I heard about them. They have handled a couple dumps pretty well. The levers are small enough that they stay out of the way when you hit stuff or fall over.


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## Kris (Jun 15, 2004)

I've been using these all season, 160 front and back. I'd imagine for bigger riders the power might be lacking, but for my 140lbs they are plenty powerful enough. I did a trip to the Canadian Rockies and rode some monster descents on them and never had any issues with lack of power or fade. The rotors have been discolored from heat (and look way cool now I might add) but they never failed me. For light riders these can be a do it all XC brake.


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## CHSAD (Jan 18, 2004)

As much as I love my Hopes, I decided not to get a second set. Essentially two reasons led to this or three really:

1. Although they are rub free, felt as though I needed something with a little more power.
2. Price 
3. Shoddy response to some questions I asked e-mailed them (u.s. dist.). Cheesey one word answers.


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## dparry (Apr 16, 2009)

Just done Bontrager 24 with the hopes and they were great. Not too much braking to be done on the course and then rained solid and turned into a mud bath. The modulation and control was superb, kept me upright many a time. Bit loud in wet but let's you know there there. A great race brake even for my frame. They suit the HT very well.... Took spare pads but they are lasting really well.


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I have been using these brakes(160/140) since April 2010. The pads retract nicely. The first bleed to Dot4 was easy and cheap with the gravity and a nipple. Dot 5.1 is silly. They'll never get that hot.


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

*lever weight*

I'd like to know the weight of the lever alone. Has anyone put it on a scale?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

marko, do you want to know the weight of lever blade itself or the weight of entire master cylinder assembly?

Which reminds me that Hope is going to release the new Trials brake, and it's going to be Race MC assembly and V2 (postmount) caliper. Now where did I read about that?


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

yes, I should have said "master unit" and including the hose connector parts
And does this "race" master have the same lever blade ratio as "tech" or "mini" master unit?
(same hydraulic pressure per unit finger force?)


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## myitch (Jan 25, 2004)

What can we do to keep them from screaming when wet? I cant' stand the noise, it's just so distracting when you're trying to stop from wrap speeds and the dogs a mile away at the bottom of the hill start barking.


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

myitch said:


> What can we do to keep them from screaming when wet? I cant' stand the noise, it's just so distracting when you're trying to stop from wrap speeds and the dogs a mile away at the bottom of the hill start barking.


Wouldn't non-postmount classic IS mount eliminate excessive "screaming"?


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## myitch (Jan 25, 2004)

marko said:


> Wouldn't non-postmount classic IS mount eliminate excessive "screaming"?


I wouldn't think that would make a difference. My old Hope Mini's IS mount screamed like howling mice also, worse wet, less when dry.


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

how many grams is the race master lighter than the mini master?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Sounds that brakes emit are strange things, and attempting to silence them is being like a shaman that fights evil spirits.

Sometimes these sounds come and go without you having changed anything in your setup. Like, always dry weather riding, never having re-aligned caliper, never changed pads, pads not worn out either, never took off and put back the wheel, never touched the rotor, never overheated the brake, and everything was installed perfectly well (faced mount, all Hope parts) in the first place!


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

ok, it's light:









lighter than tech master:


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Wow. Thanks!


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## SkatesCool (Dec 13, 2006)

Anyone added goodridge hose to their X2's?
Could someone advise me on which connector kit I need. Ta


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## marko (Jun 14, 2004)

I would also like to know if the hope plastic hose is already max quality or what 3rd party hose could improve something.


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

SkatesCool said:


> Anyone added goodridge hose to their X2's?
> Could someone advise me on which connector kit I need. Ta


Hi, you should go with the 105 kit I believe. I haven't fitted mine yet, but it looks to fit well!


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## mtnbikecrazy55 (Jul 26, 2007)

does the stainless braded hose offer any improvement or is it strictly for looks?


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*has anyone tried the hope x2 matchmakers?*

I am looking at a set of x2 match makers for m970 triggers they look to be a g8 upgrade:thumbsup: .....has anyone tried them?
cheers
Conrad
apart from trying to get my triggers just right hey are g8 brakes.....


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Hello,

I'm using them for some 200Km with the M770 (XT), no problem and saves 33gr.
It makes the cockpit look much cleaner. :thumbsup:

XT Brackets








Hope Race X2 Brackets + Alu screws








Hope Race X2 Brackets for Shimano XT + Alu screws









The result.

















Best
X.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

those look g8.....just have to wait till the importer has a set for me..oh the joy of living in NZ...g8 riding but a long way from the suppliers...


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## donny55 (Nov 22, 2009)

I used the x2 brakes since the spring and I have not had a problem..


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## mtnbikecrazy55 (Jul 26, 2007)

i cant wait to get my hands on some :-D


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

Are there people here with Race X2 brakes, with other than black colored lever blades.. 
Or is it only me ?



Got them today, custom made by Hope


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Niiiiceeeeee!!!


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanx XMAN,

BTW: Here are some better pictures...

Red lever blades Hope Race X2


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Hello,

As said before, Niiiiceeeeee!!! 

As you are running XTR shifters, why don't you use the Hope matchmakers?

By the way I've found some green ones in ebay, not as cool as yours, but also different.

Link to green Hope in ebay

Best.
X.


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

XMAN said:


> Hello,
> 
> As said before, Niiiiceeeeee!!!
> 
> ...


Yes i'm running XTR shifters, but they are the 10 speed 2011 versions.
And so the Hope matchmakers won't fit on the shifters 

Mailed to Hope England and Nick said, they are working on new matchmakers versions for XTR 2011.
Hope they are released on the market soon, need to clean up the cockpit to


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## XMAN (Sep 17, 2005)

Channel_Z_NL said:


> Yes i'm running XTR shifters, but they are the 10 speed 2011 versions.
> And so the Hope matchmakers won't fit on the shifters
> 
> Mailed to Hope England and Nick said, they are working on new matchmakers versions for XTR 2011.
> Hope they are released on the market soon, need to clean up the cockpit to


Hello,

I didn't knew that that matchmakers didn't work with the 10 speed version of the XTR, I assumed they were equal. That is a good piece of information.

I do like a clean cockpit. :thumbsup:

Keep us informed.

Best.
X.


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## kross king (May 5, 2010)

i have custom hope x2 races in full green.... with match makers to xx if its a bling off


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## Drea (Aug 23, 2008)

kross king said:


> i have custom hope x2 races in full green.... with match makers to xx if its a bling off


No pics, no good :madman:


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## mtnbikecrazy55 (Jul 26, 2007)

Yeah, where did you get them? I want to get a set of orange ones or at least get the pivot bolts and bore caps ano'd. 

Also, is the stainless braided hose worth the upgrade??


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

kross king said:


> i have custom hope x2 races in full green.... with match makers to xx if its a bling off


Did you buy the ones off ebay that are linked above?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

bikerboyj17, that set has been relisted.


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## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm taking mine out for their first ride in the morning. I will report back on how they fare.


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

You're right. I didn't notice that. Wonder where he got his green ones from then?


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## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

karl711 said:


> I'm taking mine out for their first ride in the morning. I will report back on how they fare.


After their first outing I would say they are not quite as powerful as the hope x2 pros they have replaced, the initial bit just isn't there. I used the same rotors & the old pads from the pros so bedding in wouldn't be an issue. I did notice I needed to brake a little earlier & feather the brakes a little more but by the end of the ride I was more than happy with their performance & don't regret changing them. I will be swapping the hoses for goodridge units, I have done this with all my discs brakes & it does seem to add a little extra. :thumbsup:


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

XMAN said:


> Hello,
> 
> I didn't knew that that matchmakers didn't work with the 10 speed version of the XTR, I assumed they were equal. That is a good piece of information.
> 
> ...


Good news,

Today I got this e-mail back from Hope:

Hello,

The matchmaker has been superseeded as we had to redesign it slightly to make sure it would fit both XTR and XTR 2011.
If an order is placed to us from your retailer then they will receive the latest ones, 
but i can't guarantee that all the matchmakers out there on shelves are as we only made this modification lately.

many thanks
nick

---------------------------------

So if there are people here with Hope Race X2 brakes, and Shimano XTR 2011 shifters...
Go and order them new matchmakers, if you want to have a clean cockpit :thumbsup:


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

I got the matchmakers for the 2010 XTR shifters from the Hope USA in Texas. You should give them a call, they are friendly, and process your order quickly.

I'm still waiting on the carbon levers that are suppose to come out, who knows when!


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

iRoNeTiK said:


> I got the matchmakers for the 2010 XTR shifters from the Hope USA in Texas. You should give them a call, they are friendly, and process your order quickly.
> 
> I'm still waiting on the carbon levers that are suppose to come out, who knows when!


I myself live in the Netherlands, so my Dutch dealer is ordering them direct from Hope HQ England.
A little bit closer than Texas USA I think 

And those carbon levers, will not be released...
Hope did some testing and found out that they had too much flex, and where heavier than the aluminium levers.


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## iRoNeTiK (Feb 22, 2007)

Channel_Z_NL said:


> I myself live in the Netherlands, so my Dutch dealer is ordering them direct from Hope HQ England.
> A little bit closer than Texas USA I think
> 
> And those carbon levers, will not be released...
> Hope did some testing and found out that they had too much flex, and where heavier than the aluminium levers.


That doesn't sound good 

How did you get red levers? Called Hope and asked?


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

yep... E-mailed Hope asked if they where available in red.
Awnser was: yes but only on special request by dealer.
So I made it a special request, and also told my dealer to order 2 red mini lids/top caps.

Pretty custom... I think


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## stefano_cercone (Sep 30, 2009)

double post


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I just bolted on a CSG2 Rotor with my front Race X2. Its a straighter rotor and might make for a better braking rotor. The Hope floating rotor has been difficult to make straight, I think it's because it is so thin.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Wow....with red....sweet !


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

Some data....

The Tech lever weighs 45g more than the Race lever.

The TechX2 is the Tech lever paired with the X2 caliper (steel hardware)
The RaceX2 is the Race lever paired with the X2 caliper (Ti and Al hardware)
The X2 caliper paired with the Race lever has "Race" etched on the caliper to note the Ti and Al bits.

TechX2 calipers have steel backed semi-metallic pads.
RaceX2 calipers have Al backed semi-metallic pads.


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## canonshooter (May 10, 2009)

Anybody running these able to compare to R1 or MartaSL?


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## mtnbikecrazy55 (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi! In was wondering where you guys bought the sram direct mount clamps for the race x2's. I want to use them with xx shifters. 

I have tried looking on the Internet, but all i can find is the tech x2 clamp. 

Thanks!


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

Got the Hope Race X2 matchmakers for XTR 2011 ( compatible with XTR M970 and M980 ) on friday.

so this is going bye, bye...


and is replaced by...


Final result:







Clean cockpit


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

looks good. Is there anything similar for XTR triggers and formula R1 brakes?


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## BairdM3 (Apr 23, 2009)

Anyone here with the Race X2 brakes using pads other than the stock organics? I've searched and can't find anything. For those who have gotten replacement pads, what did you get and from where? Thanks!


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

BairdM3 said:


> Anyone here with the Race X2 brakes using pads other than the stock organics? I've searched and can't find anything. For those who have gotten replacement pads, what did you get and from where? Thanks!


Hello BairdM3,

The stock Hope Race X2 brake pads are not organic, but sintered...
You can buy them at any Hope dealer, if not order them ...

I got them from here:

http://r2-bike.com/Hope-Bremsbelaege-x2-race-standard

Just use google translate


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## BairdM3 (Apr 23, 2009)

Channel_Z_NL said:


> Hello BairdM3,
> 
> The stock Hope Race X2 brake pads are not organic, but sintered...
> You can buy them at any Hope dealer, if not order them ...
> ...


Thanks! Didn't realize stock pads were sintered...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

i believe the normal x2 pads are metal backed and sintered. The x2 race version is aluminum backing plates and organic. Can someone confirm?


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

Hope X2 pads are metal backed + organic ( for summer ) and metal backed + sintered ( for winter )
Hope Race X2 pads are only aluminium backed + sintered


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## Bingo9point5 (Jul 27, 2005)

nspace said:


> I think I may have a problem after 2 rides with my brakes, but I am not sure how to fix it (if I can).
> 
> It appears the dust seal has come partly detached and is not seated fully on my rear brake lever. The front cover is fixed in place and doesn't move. The rear lever's cover is not sitting flush, kind of moves when you squeeze the lever and the lever makes a squeaking sound. I'm assuming the seals are ok on the master cylinder because the lever still feels firm but it would be good to fix this.
> 
> ...




Hi Nspace,
I am having the same problem.The left X2 lever dust rubber cap partly detached.Do you have any idea how to stop the squeaking sound?


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## Bingo9point5 (Jul 27, 2005)

nspace said:


> I think I may have a problem after 2 rides with my brakes, but I am not sure how to fix it (if I can).
> 
> It appears the dust seal has come partly detached and is not seated fully on my rear brake lever. The front cover is fixed in place and doesn't move. The rear lever's cover is not sitting flush, kind of moves when you squeeze the lever and the lever makes a squeaking sound. I'm assuming the seals are ok on the master cylinder because the lever still feels firm but it would be good to fix this.
> 
> ...


Hi Nspace,I am having the same problem.Do you have any idea how to solve this matter?


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## Bingo9point5 (Jul 27, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspace View Post
I think I may have a problem after 2 rides with my brakes, but I am not sure how to fix it (if I can).

It appears the dust seal has come partly detached and is not seated fully on my rear brake lever. The front cover is fixed in place and doesn't move. The rear lever's cover is not sitting flush, kind of moves when you squeeze the lever and the lever makes a squeaking sound. I'm assuming the seals are ok on the master cylinder because the lever still feels firm but it would be good to fix this.

How can i remove the lever w/o the master cylinder popping out to examine the problem. I come from a Magura background where you need to prevent the cylinder for popping out when you remove the lever so I may be out to lunch.

Any help would be awesome!


Hi Nspace,
I am having the same problem.The left X2 lever dust rubber cap partly detached.Do you have any idea how to stop the squeaking sound?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

iRoNeTiK said:


> I'm still waiting on the carbon levers that are suppose to come out, who knows when!


Until Hope starts doing carbon in house I wouldn't hold your breath.

The last time they did carbon levers on the Mini lever they were left distinctly unimpressed by both the quality of the parts and the behaviour of the manufacturer. Plus the alloy levers they make themselves are lighter anyway.


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## Pete N (Jan 22, 2008)

I have had my Race X2's for nearly 18 months now and they have been flawless. I love the lever feel, modulation that is second to none and I also find them powerful, contrary to what some others say.
They have performed so well and I have had zero issues. I can easily one finger brake on long steep descents and throw myself over the bars if desired, so more than good enough for me at 83kg. I'll have a dilemma at the end of the year when I get a new bike that will likely come with XX's.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Pete N, if you like how Race X2 works for you, then I'd say sell those XX.

IME, Avid Elixir family of brakes have so much more bite than Hope (Tech) X2 it's frightening. I had a Tech X2 setup to the tee, and still found it slightly underpowered on long rides. Bedding in my first Tech M4 now (front, do-all hardtail), and I can foresee swapping the Tech MC to Race to save some grams and get that Hammerschmidt trigger (currently fitted on Hope Tech matchmaker -- going to be a Race matchmaker) closer to the hand.


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## db9 (Sep 19, 2008)

So what is it about the Avid's that gives them that extra bite? 

I currently run Race X2's on my Niner and wish that they bit like my Avid mechanicals that I had on my previous bike - and the reason I had Avid's is because the Shimano hydro's that I had didn't bite either..


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Avids have the "more bite" feeling because certain models of avids use the semi metallic brake pad. In the case of the avid mechanicals they are supplied wirh metaalic. 

The avid ultimates in the past had similiar brake performance to hopes as they are supplied with organic pads.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

X2 calipers with Hope sintered pads do indeed bite more than with Hope organic pads (same setup, just swapped pads), but still not as much as Elixirs.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Channel_Z_NL, where did you get XTR 980 compatible Race matchmakers from?

Edit: It looks like you've positioned your Race levers far outboard -- do you use 2 fingers to operate them?


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Channel_Z_NL, where did you get XTR 980 compatible Race matchmakers from?
> 
> Edit: It looks like you've positioned your Race levers far outboard -- do you use 2 fingers to operate them?


Hey Psy,

I got the mm's from my Hope dealer in the Netherlands, He ordered them from Hope England.
The new MM's are compatible with XTR 970 and 980 series...

About the braking, I use one finger braking.
Take a good look at the grips on the handelbar, then you will notice 
Pics are on this same page.....


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Finally I set up Race levers on my Transition Bank. The left hand lever also holds, via Matchmaker, the XTR 980 trigger that operates the Hammerschmidt.

Turned out that Hope silently redesigned the XTR matchmakers sometime summer 2011, without having their name updated, so that they are now compatible with both 970 and 980 triggers, and this is stealthily engraved on the new ones.

I'm just back from the test ride (which was mostly dirt jumping in moonlight), and I already like their feel better than Tech levers. The 980 trigger is positioned much more comfortably than 810 trigger was with Tech/XT/Saint matchmaker.

The icing on the cake is that I rigged the levers to V2 calipers. Had to overfill the brakes, so that pistons are partially extended. The amount of fluid that Race levers pump isn't sufficient to actuate V2 pistons over their intended travel. I set them up with very small gaps, much like what is natural for Formula The One. Works great so far.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

canonshooter said:


> Anybody running these able to compare to R1 or MartaSL?


I run Marta SL on one bike na Race X2 on other. And i must say i am disappointed with X2's they have much less power than Martas.

I have done on both more than 3000km...


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I agree. I like my X2's but I wasn't wowed by them. They are nice brakes don't get me wrong, and they are light, but the stopping power of a Marta SL is noticeably more powerful, although I find the modulation better on the Hope's.

Would I buy them for my next build? I'd probably try something else.


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## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

Maybe someone know what's the weight of the standard Hopes caps?? Maybe some pic on scale.Thanks


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

Here you go...


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## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks,so the saved weight is almost none....sorry 0,5gram WoW


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## Channel_Z_NL (Jan 9, 2011)

bikemaniack said:


> Thanks,so the saved weight is almost none....sorry 0,5gram WoW


Nope they weight exactly the same as the Race X2 caps


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

I revived this megathread for Shalom and others looking for info on Hope Race X2 brakes.


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## sorlo101 (May 13, 2012)

Whats the diferent between x2 and evo x2 and stealth evo x2??


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

The differences between X2 and Stealth Evo X2 are:

1. Evo lever, 15% more leverage
2. Stealth: all black lever and caliper, no silver bits.
3. Some bolts are titanium instead of steel.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice!


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## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

J. Random Psycho said:


> The differences between X2 and Stealth Evo X2 are:
> 
> 1. Evo lever, 15% more leverage
> 2. Stealth: all black lever and caliper, no silver bits.
> 3. Some bolts are titanium instead of steel.


Sorry, but on the third point, I don't think any bolts that weren't titanium on the first Race X2 have been swapped for titanium in the EVO version. The Stealth EVO is just an all black version of the EVO.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

Having both a set of race X2 and a set of the race X2 evo's, there is a noticeable difference in the power of the evo's over the original X2 brakes. 
This xtra power doesn't come at the cost of feel etc it just means you don't have to squeeze as hard on the lever. 

The funky green highlights are a bit of a bonus on the evo's. :thumbsup:


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Crossmaxx said:


> Sorry, but on the third point, I don't think any bolts that weren't titanium on the first Race X2 have been swapped for titanium in the EVO version. The Stealth EVO is just an all black version of the EVO.


I just gave a more general answer, which also applies to Tech brakes, of which there are Stealth versions too. That's because the original question contained no explicit Race keyword and I forgot that Race-specific context must be inherited from topic name when omitted in messages. )

Oh, now I see my real error. I should have said



> Some bolts *may be* titanium instead of steel.


to allow for the amount of Ti bolts being evaluated to 0 without breaking the generality of statements.

Sorry for sounding geeky, I've been programming my spoke calculator all night...


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