# Free Mt Tam Shuttles, body armor & beer!



## Fairfaxian (Dec 10, 2004)

OK, now that I have your attention -I'd like to kick off a little tirade about our deteriorating public image. My first point is to consider that in Marin, the possibility still exists that we MIGHT gain access to some prime singletrack -historically off limits. But the outcome -and any continued access is UP TO US. Access issues in all areas have never been more critical. But we need to be cool & take the big picture. Web forums are getting more riders out in greater numbers than ever. But other user groups are also out in force. And they HAVE CLOUT. Many would like to see all cyclists sent to penal colonies. The main point of my rant, is about more groups of faster riders -increasingly armor clad- charging through local parks like armored cavalry -complete with dustcloud. I have seen a major increase in turnout at Annadel this year. Endless online blather about breaking the sound barrier on Lawndale, etc. I saw 2 guys there recently in full body gear. One went airborne -leaving a 15' skidmark- and hit a tree -sustaining a puncture wound to the chest. I saw another dweeb this Sunday who looked like a SWAT member in moto gear -he was on the new Coastal View Trail in Marin. (replete with dark visor & helmet cam -you are not starring in ROAM II, junior!) This is one of the few legal singletracks in the area -a beautiful trail that is popular with hikers and equestrians. What will they think when they see Darth Vapour bearing down in full battle gear? We could LOSE access here. Don't believe me? Well, years ago ALL MARIN HEADLANDS singletrack was legal for bikes. We retain access to just a few trails at present.

I ride hard & fast, but it takes no real effort to slow for anybody I pass, and to leave the trail surface intact (yes it is possible to slow for a switchback without leaving a trail of burning rubber). If a trail is too popular with families, dogs, horses, I just ride somewhere else. There's plenty of remote miles -if you don't mind just pedaling the damn thing. This may surprise some riders, but local & state parks are not actually run by Northstar. When you warp past a family with little kids & a dog, they are not going to tell Ranger Bob how much they enjoy SHARING THE TRAIL with you. And I know most here can ride plenty hard without leaving a wake of dust & rage. But it doesn't take much to generate ill will -which spreads like bird flu on a moist handshake. And if a little damage goes a long way, just reflect on what more riders on faster bikes can do. It makes my head hurt just to think about seeing body armor on local CC trails -WTF!?

Yes, you can ride fast & hard. But just be cool. Pretend it's YOUR Grandma up ahead. Those who agree should respectfully enlighten the unknowing. I have plenty of respect for badda$$ downhillers, jumpers, and gap flyers -wish I could pull those hucks. But there's a time & place -and you might actually need to travel . . . ROAD TRIP YO! But shuttle bombing Mt Tam is NOT cool. Let's see more trails opened, not closed.

OK, I'm gonna put my asbestos suit on, 'cause here come da FLAME!


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## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)




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## Bigfoot (Jan 16, 2004)

*True*

Fairfaxian speaks truth. As a long-time moto-head who saw most of his favorite riding areas go away, one by one, I see the handwriting on the wall for many favorite mountain bike areas UNLESS we learn these younguns some friggin' manners!

My backyard is basically the Arcata Community Forest, 680 acres of multi-user trails. Most of our biking community are responsible, positive folks with good trail practices. So when large numbers of us showed up at a city council meeting, asking for more trails, city officials responded. And thanks to their decisions, and the sweat of the local mountain bike community, we've added several new buff single-track trails in the past few years. Now before we all tweak our shoulders, trying to pat ourselves on the back, let's take a look at that minority of pin-heads who try to undo all that we've accomplished.

We too have those riders who make us all look bad. Some are the full body-armor, full-speed ahead crowd, but there are rude riders of all types. I encountered a few of them last week when Mrs. Bigfoot and I were in the ACF walking our dog. Luckily I heard the unmistakable sound of knobby-on-dirt and managed to tug our mutt and my gal to one side before one-by-one four guys who looked ready to take on a World Cup zipped by at Mach speed. Mrs. Bigfoot let out an angry "Watch it!" at the third one and got a "You watch it!" from the fourth Sam Hill wannabe. I'm sure that the other trail users experience this type of thing regularly. Which is why I understand the hostile attitude I encountered on my evening ride yesterday.

I always tell newbies to the ACF to round blind corners as if there's a baby-jogger or loose Labrador (even though there's a leash law) coming the other way...cuz that's often the case. So yesterday when I turned off one of the main trails onto a narrow uphill single-track, I carved a line far to the right and sure enough, right around the corner was a woman walking down. I was at the extreme edge of a five-foot wide trail, leaving her as much room as humanly possible and was carrying a speed of a mere 4.7 miles per hour (I looked). Yet she practically leapt to the other side of the trail, scowled and said "This isn't a race track!" :madmax: I continued on, dumbfounded. See, I sort of know this woman. She's someone I regularly see around town and at local community events and based on the conversation or two I've had with her, I judge her to be a reasonable, friendly person. Yet, there she was yesterday, startled, afraid and directing her anger at me when I was doing everything as right as I possibly could.

Reflecting back to the week before, I realize that that she was likely venting over previous encounters and has developed the opinion that a mountain biker is a mountain biker and they're all speeding a-holes. Multiply that by the hundreds of other locals who hike, ride their horses, jog, bird-watch, etc. in the ACF and chances are that some time when our local mountain bike community petitions the city for more trails we may encounter opposition. If that happens the history of biker/hiker/equestrian access disputes in other areas doesn't paint a rosy picture.

The dilemma always is that in a forum like this, the voice of reason is usually preaching to the choir. How do we reach the problem riders? Is there a SelfishPinheadMoronReview.com? Francis, you may be missing the boat on a new site here.

Bigfoot


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## Ham Er Hed (Oct 16, 2007)

*Couldn't Agree More*

You guys have pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we want to share trails, then we can't really ride around like we own them. Obtaining bike only trails, especially in Marin, seems relatively impossible.

The real problem that I see is that there are not that many legal singletrack trails in Marin. If we get one or two rippin' good trails open to bikes, will the idiots flood the trails and get them closed in a month?


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## grrrah (Mar 26, 2004)

Where's the free beer? This thread sucks.


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## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

Well said, Fairfaxian and Bigfoot. It is something that we in the south bay are concerned about as well. Luckily, we don't have quite the density problems that you mention above, save for a few key locations such as St. Joe's, etc. This does not mean that the issue is not top of mind. 

This same thougtht crossed my mind earlier this week, as I was checking out the cover of the lastest issue of BIKE. As much as I dig the writing and their attempt to capture the essence of the sport, I kept looking at the cover, with the moto-ish guy riding on a vertical wall in some pretty outdoor setting. I'm sure it was closed course or private property or whatever, but I could not help thinking about what message it was sending, as the mag sits on the newsstand with all of the other perioricals. Looks pretty similar to one of the Hi-Torque moto mags. 

I'm all for fast, responsible riding, but as our sport grows, and we seek to increase our access and legitimacy, perception, fair or not, is a large part of the equation. 

-D


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

Fairfaxian should move to Berkeley so that Fairfax doesn't end up an over-regulated ex-hippie hangout that is actually just run by a bunch of Special Interest Nazi's.

Check the previous posts by Fairfaxian by clicking on his tag. There is not one positive remark. Just comments about how he knows more than us and snide remarks to people that are asking questions. 

I agree that we need to slow down when we see other trail users, be overly polite because of our "image" to others, not play loud music when gearing up, and that sort of thing. I practice this and teach my friends to do the same while we are out riding. But there is no need to use generalizations against someone who happens to wear a helmet that provides more protection than you, or "looks like a warrior" on the bike. Chill out and be nice and welcoming to your fellow mtn bikers as well as the other trail users


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## Fairfaxian (Dec 10, 2004)

mtnryder56 said:


> Fairfaxian should move to Berkeley so that Fairfax doesn't end up an over-regulated ex-hippie hangout that is actually just run by a bunch of Special Interest Nazi's.
> 
> Check the previous posts by Fairfaxian by clicking on his tag. There is not one positive remark. Just comments about how he knows more than us and snide remarks to people that are asking questions.
> 
> I agree that we need to slow down when we see other trail users, be overly polite because of our "image" to others, not play loud music when gearing up, and that sort of thing. I practice this and teach my friends to do the same while we are out riding. But there is no need to use generalizations against someone who happens to wear a helmet that provides more protection than you, or "looks like a warrior" on the bike. Chill out and be nice and welcoming to your fellow mtn bikers as well as the other trail users


Gee, nothing like a nice ad hominem remark to add weight to your argument. I sure do enjoy these lively forum debates!


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

mtnryder56 said:


> Fairfaxian should move to Berkeley so that Fairfax doesn't end up an over-regulated ex-hippie hangout that is actually just run by a bunch of Special Interest Nazi's.
> 
> Check the previous posts by Fairfaxian by clicking on his tag. There is not one positive remark. Just comments about how he knows more than us and snide remarks to people that are asking questions.
> 
> I agree that we need to slow down when we see other trail users, be overly polite because of our "image" to others, not play loud music when gearing up, and that sort of thing. I practice this and teach my friends to do the same while we are out riding. But there is no need to use generalizations against someone who happens to wear a helmet that provides more protection than you, or "looks like a warrior" on the bike. Chill out and be nice and welcoming to your fellow mtn bikers as well as the other trail users


Fairfaxian is a fixture so to speak in Marin and is much more involved in trail maintenance and advocacy than you (well, at least it's a good bet since I know how much he's done)....hmmmm who would I listen to? Man that's hard, but the free beer wins me over.

Anyone who needs to ride trails other than dedicated dh trails in full faces and armor is suspect for at least their skills if not their discretion. I have one friend who wanted to ride bay area xc trails with our group all decked out in armor and I made him go back to the car and take that crap off so he wouldn't scare regular trail users...aside from the fact the trails weren't anywhere so technical as to require armor in the first place. Looks do count, stopping and being polite when appropriate should go without comment (overly polite, what is that, some sort of asinine concession on the part of you and your poser buddies? just being polite isn't a part of your normal agenda?).


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## mtbrdan (Jun 1, 2004)

Stopping, being polite and looking out for other trail users is a no brainer but to say that looks count as well? I know of a few cross country riders that use full face helmets, they should be more concerned about the fashion statement they are making rather than the teeth they fear losing? I sometimes carry knee pads in my camel back for a long descent, I should leave them at home to make folks more comfortable? No, the real problem is speed when coming across other trail users nothing else, the fashion argument is just plain stupid.


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## datenschwanz (Jul 12, 2004)

I know who this Fairfaxian character is...

let's just say he knows more about marin and mtbing in general than the other 98% of us combined.

i have also seen an increase in the "I'M GOING FAST GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!!!!!!!!" crowd in the past coupe of seasons.

i've also seen an increase in huge skid marks around turns and giant brake ruts and washboard on trails. protip: if you're skidding the rear wheel you're not using enough front brake.

i've started to carry full size carrots in my pocket on marin rides. now, when i see a horse, i stop, talk to the horse and owner about what a beautiful day it is, ask if i can give their horse the carrot and feed it to them while rubbing it's nose. i try to undo some of the bad PR that the uninitiated more agro riders have gained for us. 

i have found that it's not anyone who has bad intentions that's getting us into trouble with other tail uses, it just riders who have not yet stopped to think about what differing degrees/types of interactions with other trail users gain/lose us. after the other user groups start closing your trails, it'll give you time to pause and reflect on how you interact with them. i LOVE to go silly fast. ask anyone on here who knows me. what i've come to realize or have grown into, is that there is a time and a place for it and it's not 100% of the time.

i've been dusted out on rides on fire roads by motos and cars. i've also dusted out hikers by accident and felt like a dick for doing it. i don't like being a dick, so now i slow down before i pass. unless i've paid entry fee and have a number pinned on me i don't see the need to prove anything.

damn, listen to me... it's like i've grown up or something!? ARRGGHHHH! 
what's happened to me???


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## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

dvo said:


> Stopping, being polite and looking out for other trail users is a no brainer but to say that looks count as well? I know of a few cross country riders that use full face helmets, they should be more concerned about the fashion statement they are making rather than the teeth they fear losing? I sometimes carry knee pads in my camel back for a long descent, I should leave them at home to make folks more comfortable? No, the real problem is speed when coming across other trail users nothing else, the fashion argument is just plain stupid.


You are right about speed and courtesy being the most important.

Unfortunately, other user groups, fair or not, tend to "see" the armor-clad rider as being more "moto" than "responsible user enjoying the outdoors." This comes into play when these users log complaints and show up at advocacy and planning meetings.

I'm not saying that folks should not beef up their gear when appropriate. I'm pointing out that there may be consequences as a result.


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## J (Mar 25, 2004)

datenschwanz said:


> damn, listen to me... it's like i've grown up or something!? ARRGGHHHH! what's happened to me???


Shave that beard, hippie, and you'll harden up and shave seconds off your DH time.


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## shosan (Dec 24, 2007)

Fairfaxian speaks the truth. It simply comes down to people being respectful of others and less self-absorbed in their own private world of fun that, god forbid, be interrupted for a few seconds in order to politely allow hikers, other cyclist, or horses to pass by. I have been literally blown off the trail by armor-clad dweebs on full downhill rigs without even a thought in their heads of slowing down. Now I like to bomb the downhills too, but there's a time and place and also a correct way top approach it. No one needs full- on world cup armor at Tamarancho. come on. However, all of our rants here aren't goignt o do much good..well mayeba few will read, not get horribly offended, and decide to change their ways, but other than that, what are we going to do? stop a bunch of full faced-armored guys on the trail tying to explain this all to them and not expect a beat down of some sort?


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## Hel Mot (Sep 19, 2007)

When is the shuttle running?


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## Fairfaxian (Dec 10, 2004)

*(shhhhhhhhh -he shaved!)*



J said:


> Shave that beard, hippie, and you'll harden up and shave seconds off your DH time.


Looks like a baby's butt now (a scary baby)


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## Zodiac (May 14, 2006)

Tomorrow we'll tear down the gate at Pine Mountain and shuttle people to the top in my Hummer, running over any walkers and other trail users along the way.

Seriously though, all you gotta do is slow down to walking pace or stop when you meet someone else. Think about how many times you meet someone on an average ride. 5 or 6? Maybe less?


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

Maybe it's marketing. Here's some pads on Chainlove right now with a description

Race Face Roach Rally DH Arm Guard
Don’t be afraid to nuke down your favorite trail.


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## Cycledelic (Oct 13, 2004)

*The Marketing Stole My Brain*



mtnryder56 said:


> Maybe it's marketing. Here's some pads on Chainlove right now with a description
> 
> Race Face Roach Rally DH Arm Guard
> Don't be afraid to nuke down your favorite trail.


You must have watched too much TV programming, Are you really a marketing zombie controlled by your corporate masters? Or are you joking? I really can't tell. I sure don't feel fresh after a ride, but you don't see me pining for one of these.






It's pretty obvious that the argument here is not about armor as a fashion statement. If you feel all manly wearing pads riding on Mt. Tam, that's a little kinky, but more power to you. If you're riding like a chowderhead out of control and scaring other trail users because you got all that armor, you're not going to be a welcome sight for anyone.

You don't need armor to ride like a chowderhead. Or a champion. If you want to push the limits, find a little privacy and have at it.


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## Piranha426 (Aug 16, 2008)

*My pal witnessed this on the frontside of China Camp.*

He was doing a chill XC ride on the frontside last summer when he encountered a bunch of idiots in full DH gear tearing past other trail users. My friend makes a living doing bike access work, and he gave them hell about the frontside of China Camp not being the proper place for that kind of riding. He's totally right. You don't gain access by scaring the sh!t out parents looking to take their kids or elderly grandmas on a little stroll through the woods.

If I want to put on armor and bomb down trails, I go to Pacifica. Not China Camp, not Coastal Trail, not _anywhere_ where there's going to be bunches of people. It's not just being polite, it's common sense and makes for a safer, more enjoyable experience for everyone.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

The Marketing Stole My Brain


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

Yeah, there is no reason to be riding down the frontside of China Camp with full pads and Full Face Helmet on. 

That is just overkill...I gotta go, my M&M's are melting


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

I always ride with my FF at Annadel; as well as soft knee pads. Got a problem with that? I also ride at a decent pace and hit Rough Go and Marsh [downhills] solidly. But I also watch out for other riders (and hikers/horses), and say hi to everyone and try to be polite. My main riding interest is DH, and Northstar is a passion, thus why I "train" in these other local areas (in addition to spots I naturally won't name). Am used to the FF thus why I always wear it. Plus hearing stories of falls where peoples' faces get ripped apart by wearing those close-to-useless XC helmets. I also live in Fairfax but rarely ride Tamarancho because of all the XCers. Get over yourself, advocates; the sport has evolved and continues to evolve. As you can tell, DH and FR segments are gaining popularity so it's fairly normal that more of these types of riders - young and old - start popping about locally. Naturally we have very few legal places to ride, thus we train and have fun on some local trails. I'm not stopping any time soon so get used to it. And if you have a problem with it, feel free to approach me on the trail; would be happy to have a live conversation about it. The funniest was one time last year when a rider told me that I should push my seat up for better pedaling ability (it was at mid-range height; but not up my arse like some of you XCers); then I proceeded to pass the expert on the climb [will admit this rarely happens though as my bike is 37ish pounds and has only one front ring]. Anyways, rant over. Not changing my ways. Actually, am inspired now to go ride China C [front and back] with my FF and knee pads - thanks! See you kids out there!


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kevin G said:


> I always ride with my FF at Annadel; as well as soft knee pads. Got a problem with that? I also ride at a decent pace and hit Rough Go and Marsh [downhills] solidly. But I also watch out for other riders (and hikers/horses), and say hi to everyone and try to be polite. My main riding interest is DH, and Northstar is a passion, thus why I "train" in these other local areas (in addition to spots I naturally won't name). Am used to the FF thus why I always wear it. Plus hearing stories of falls where peoples' faces get ripped apart by wearing those close-to-useless XC helmets. I also live in Fairfax but rarely ride Tamarancho because of all the XCers. Get over yourself, advocates; the sport has evolved and continues to evolve. As you can tell, DH and FR segments are gaining popularity so it's fairly normal that more of these types of riders - young and old - start popping about locally. Naturally we have very few legal places to ride, thus we train and have fun on some local trails. I'm not stopping any time soon so get used to it. And if you have a problem with it, feel free to approach me on the trail; would be happy to have a live conversation about it. The funniest was one time last year when a rider told me that I should push my seat up for better pedaling ability (it was at mid-range height; but not up my arse like some of you XCers); then I proceeded to pass the expert on the climb [will admit this rarely happens though as my bike is 37ish pounds and has only one front ring]. Anyways, rant over. Not changing my ways. Actually, am inspired now to go ride China C [front and back] with my FF and knee pads - thanks! See you kids out there!


Training? For what?


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## Ham Er Hed (Oct 16, 2007)

*Response to Pirahna and Kevin G*

Nobody says you can't ride around with full DH gear on. I don't consider a full face helmet and soft knee pads exactly full DH gear. Rough Go has some roughness to it and there's nothing wrong with some extra protection. The problem is shredding up China Camp with a group of people decked out for the apocalypse and not being considerate of others. I've seen 6 year old girls on the trails at China Camp and lots of the users there are just learning because it's a great place to do it. I rip it up when I'm out there, but slow down on turns and when approaching.

It's not the people on this forum that are spooked by full DH gear. It's the other people out there. I guess my overall point is this; don't give people an excuse to think of mountain bikers as a bunch of jerks.


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## Fairfaxian (Dec 10, 2004)

*Like he says...*



Ham Er Hed said:


> Nobody says you can't ride around with full DH gear on. I don't consider a full face helmet and soft knee pads exactly full DH gear. Rough Go has some roughness to it and there's nothing wrong with some extra protection. The problem is shredding up China Camp with a group of people decked out for the apocalypse and not being considerate of others. I've seen 6 year old girls on the trails at China Camp and lots of the users there are just learning because it's a great place to do it. I rip it up when I'm out there, but slow down on turns and when approaching.
> 
> It's not the people on this forum that are spooked by full DH gear. It's the other people out there. I guess my overall point is this; don't give people an excuse to think of mountain bikers as a bunch of jerks.


That's it.:thumbsup:


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Training? For what?


Um, getting in shape for technical DH trails and a fun season at Northstar (and Whistler for me too this year). OK with you?

As an aside, I see many XC riders ripping down downhills at Annadel too. Plus those without helmets at all (saw 2 riders as such last weekend).

Gear is a personal decision; just as much as you XCers deride us for "apocalyptic" gear, I am often amused at your aerodynamic minimalistic body condoms.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kevin G said:


> Um, getting in shape for technical DH trails and a fun season at Northstar (and Whistler for me too this year). OK with you?
> 
> As an aside, I see many XC riders ripping down downhills at Annadel too. Plus those without helmets at all (saw 2 riders as such last weekend).
> 
> Gear is a personal decision; just as much as you XCers deride us for "apocalyptic" gear, I am often amused at your aerodynamic minimalistic body condoms.


Who's an xc rider? I ride mountain bikes, I don't need to identify with any particular segment, I like all sorts of cycling disciplines so I guess if I had to pigeonhole myself, am more the all mountain flavor. I particularly love going downhill, at speed when I can do so in the right place and time.

Aerodynamic body condoms? Don't Steve Peat and other pro dh guys wear those things for racing ?  Personally, i.e. for me, my opinion, I just think ff helmets and armor is uncomfortable and mostly silly in a place like Annadel besides the ability to frighten other trail users. If you've got to wear that stuff because your skills don't keep you from hurting yourself, that's fine, your choice, no doubt....but you probably aren't as pretty as you think you are either  Don't chicks dig scars?

It's just riding, not training (unless you're racing). Annadel, and many other public parks, aren't suitable for racing or training runs when there are other trail users on trail. Knock yourself out at N*. Your appearance does influence other trail users, though, especially if you don't yield when you should; stopping for others and smiling and a few kind words goes a long way in "representing" our sport...

Just keep in mind what happened to motorcycle access...


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## ratpick (Mar 24, 2008)

I went riding around the Lake Lagunitas area today - every single singletrack trail was adorned with one of these:










Broke my heart, it did! In the very birthplace of mountain biking all we get to ride are fire roads!

As a visitor to that part of the world, I was very friendly to every hiker I passed and they were all friendly back.. always nice to get a smile from a hiker.

I climbed Pine Mountain and descended Repack for historical kicks.. that was fun!


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

One of what?


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## ratpick (Mar 24, 2008)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> One of what?


Edited the URL.. hopefully better now. If not, "No bikes" sign.


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## jerkyspace (May 29, 2006)

*hijacking the jack-knifing truck this thread has become...*



ratpick said:


> I went riding around the Lake Lagunitas area today - every single singletrack trail was adorned with one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)

well many of the hike-only trails are built with hiking in mind initially, so are really not the best for riding either way you look at it. new trails is the answer, trails that can be shared.


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Who's an xc rider? I ride mountain bikes, I don't need to identify with any particular segment, I like all sorts of cycling disciplines so I guess if I had to pigeonhole myself, am more the all mountain flavor. I particularly love going downhill, at speed when I can do so in the right place and time.
> 
> Aerodynamic body condoms? Don't Steve Peat and other pro dh guys wear those things for racing ?  Personally, i.e. for me, my opinion, I just think ff helmets and armor is uncomfortable and mostly silly in a place like Annadel besides the ability to frighten other trail users. If you've got to wear that stuff because your skills don't keep you from hurting yourself, that's fine, your choice, no doubt....but you probably aren't as pretty as you think you are either  Don't chicks dig scars?
> 
> ...


Ah; you're an "all mountain" rider - no need to say more. Explains perfectly.

By the way, DH riders only wear body condoms when required by particular tracks.

As an aside, been wearing my FF on local trails for a few years now and 99.9% of the time I get nothing but friendly greetings. Not sure who you think we're scaring!? But I do treat everyone with respect; maybe that's the difference.

And wearing armor due to a lack in skills? Are you serious?

Continue your all-mountain radness at Tamarancho, and I'll have my fun over all mountains.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kevin G said:


> Ah; you're an "all mountain" rider - no need to say more. Explains perfectly.
> 
> By the way, DH riders only wear body condoms when required by particular tracks.
> 
> ...


Is that like saying ah, you're a dh wannabe? Say no more... Armor and ff when riding xc trails...yes, definitely lack of skills after a few years.


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

Go for a ride and forget about this thread now.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Is that like trying to forget the amplifier in your butt?


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Do not ride bikes. It makes us all look bad!


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

Please do not talk about bikes or bike riding on this site.
Thank you.


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Is that like trying to forget the amplifier in your butt?


Are u speaking to me?


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

dvo said:


> Stopping, being polite and looking out for other trail users is a no brainer but to say that looks count as well? I know of a few cross country riders that use full face helmets, they should be more concerned about the fashion statement they are making rather than the teeth they fear losing? I sometimes carry knee pads in my camel back for a long descent, I should leave them at home to make folks more comfortable? No, the real problem is speed when coming across other trail users nothing else, the fashion argument is just plain stupid.


To DVO:
Calling someone else's observation stupid just because you don't agree is pretty closed minded. Perception IS reality and if you don't get that point then jumping in here in this conversation is pretty naive. Have you been to a land access meeting? Have you been involved in the legal process of getting a trail opened or closed? If you had then maybe you would be able to speak some words here that have some meaning. Until you do get involved then maybe you should just use your ears for a while. They are those 2 things on the side of your head.

To the Rest of the people on the thread:
The rest of you here on this thread who are defending armor and full face wearing riders on shared use trails and arguing that it has no impact on trail access I ask that you put yourself in their shoes for a day. For some of them it has got to feel like going hiking on a motorcross track.

I ride DH, Freeride, XC, urban, DJ, etc. I have full face helmets, full body armor, etc. I try to wear it wisely and only in certain location and I try to present an image of in control, friendly neighbor when out on crowded trails. Hell, I won't even put a mud fender on my fork or rear seat post cause I think it makes my bicycle look too much like a moto.

The original poster seemed to be simply asking people to be cognisant of other trail users perceptions of the mtn bike community. I for one respect the request.


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## mtbrdan (Jun 1, 2004)

shanedawg said:


> To DVO:
> Calling someone else's observation stupid just because you don't agree is pretty closed minded. Perception IS reality and if you don't get that point then jumping in here in this conversation is pretty naive. Have you been to a land access meeting? Have you been involved in the legal process of getting a trail opened or closed? If you had then maybe you would be able to speak some words here that have some meaning. Until you do get involved then maybe you should just use your ears for a while. They are those 2 things on the side of your head.
> 
> To the Rest of the people on the thread:
> ...


The perception that really causes the problem is someone speeding out of control when coming across other trail users, wearing tights and a xc lid means nothing if you are not aware of other people on the trails. I apologize for using the word "stupid", after rereading my comments I realize that was a little harsh, thank you shane for pointing it out. I was merely trying to state that there are folks that wear a full face and pads for protection regardless of where they ride. This board gets a little hostile at times doesn't it?


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

dvo said:


> The perception that really causes the problem is someone speeding out of control when coming across other trail users, wearing tights and a xc lid means nothing if you are not aware of other people on the trails. I apologize for using the word "stupid", after rereading my comments I realize that was a little harsh, thank you shane for pointing it out. I was merely trying to state that there are folks that wear a full face and pads for protection regardless of where they ride. This board gets a little hostile at times doesn't it?


To dvo..
It sure does get a little heated around here, I guess I was pretty harsh too. But it's a good thing if heated discussions generate more awareness of an issue. You make good points about speed being one of the biggest factors in user conflicts. I'm glad others are getting to see that image is up there in the ranking too from reading this thread.

Just to provide another example to the peeps here on this thread of what some hikers must think.....Imagine going out onto the basketball court and warming up. You see some guy come off the bench from the other team and he's wearing full ice hockey gear. would you even want to share the court with this guy? What would be going through your head if he started dribbling towards you? You might be freaking out thinking he was gonna run you over and trample you on his way to the basket. Now imagine that the real reason he's wearing the gear for his own protection because last time he played basketball he tripped on his shoe lace and broke his jaw and a few ribs and it's purely for his own protection. How would you know that's why he's wearing the gear if you didn't start up a conversation and talk to him for a few min? Would it make you feel more comfortable seeing other players in full hockey gear on a different court the next week? Or would you still have the weird feeling they were gonna run you over? Ask yourself these questions and then see if you can come up with some solutions to the issue of hikers perception of mtn bikers riding bikes in full face and or armor/full pads.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

GoGoGordo said:


> Are u speaking to me?


You see anyone else with an amplifier sticking out their butt?


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

*31 MPH, 1 biker,No hikers,No problem*

Fullface ready to charge









Fullface Chug-a-lug









Fullface chargin









Purple Haze
https://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh414/Gogogordo_photos/DSC00334-2.jpg

Same O'l ****
[IMG]https://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh414/Gogogordo_photos/DSC00337.jpg

SOS









SOS









Fullface takin the time to stop an smell the flowers









FF thuhumbs up

















Payoff 1

https://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh414/Gogogordo_photos/DSC00349-1.jpg

Payoff 2










Rok On!









Caution!









See you all @ the Otter ;}


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> You see anyone else with an amplifier sticking out their butt?


Nope only me. I am an Audio engineer ya know. And it's not an amp, it's a speaker FOOL


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

I really enjoyed Farfaxian's post cuz it was real. When I see a huge skidmark at every turn on an erosion-sensitive singletrack trail, my first thought is "what a dick." My second thought is, "if I thought they were a dick, imagine what the hiker must be thinking.". My 2 cents: Just don't be a dick. (no offense to those born with dicks). But it's about putting yourself in the other person's shoes, be they a hiker, equestrian, another biker, or people wearing full face helmets who stop and sniff the flowers like GoGoGordo.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

So when are we shuttling Mt.Tam?


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

6am this sat, before we head down to Sea Otter.

Coffee in downtown MV, and then hit the road


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

GoGoGordo said:


> Nope only me. I am an Audio engineer ya know. And it's not an amp, it's a speaker FOOL


:lol: Thanks, looked at a couple amplifier definitions.... but speaker or megaphone?


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> :lol: Thanks, looked at a couple amplifier definitions.... but speaker or megaphone?


Otherwise known as a butt trumpet.


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## mtbrdan (Jun 1, 2004)

shanedawg said:


> To dvo..
> It sure does get a little heated around here, I guess I was pretty harsh too. But it's a good thing if heated discussions generate more awareness of an issue. You make good points about speed being one of the biggest factors in user conflicts. I'm glad others are getting to see that image is up there in the ranking too from reading this thread.
> 
> Just to provide another example to the peeps here on this thread of what some hikers must think.....Imagine going out onto the basketball court and warming up. You see some guy come off the bench from the other team and he's wearing full ice hockey gear. would you even want to share the court with this guy? What would be going through your head if he started dribbling towards you? You might be freaking out thinking he was gonna run you over and trample you on his way to the basket. Now imagine that the real reason he's wearing the gear for his own protection because last time he played basketball he tripped on his shoe lace and broke his jaw and a few ribs and it's purely for his own protection. How would you know that's why he's wearing the gear if you didn't start up a conversation and talk to him for a few min? Would it make you feel more comfortable seeing other players in full hockey gear on a different court the next week? Or would you still have the weird feeling they were gonna run you over? Ask yourself these questions and then see if you can come up with some solutions to the issue of hikers perception of mtn bikers riding bikes in full face and or armor/full pads.


Shane lets go to your own beloved demo forest, with the crackdown at ucsc demo has been busier than ever and I see more big bikes than ever out there. Sometimes I will wear a full face out there and sometimes my open face, but you often see people with armor. Not alot of hikers make the drive but it does happen and all it takes is one bad interaction and you have a problem. Once again it comes down to courtesy when these interactions take place not what is worn. Nobody has the right to tell someone how much protection to wear. I have a 17 year old son that rides ( thinks he is going to be the next Sam Hill ) and I am constantly preaching to him how you have to behave on multi use trails, but in the interest of safety I bought him a full face helmet. The real problem is that no one is teaching the young kids about respect for others ( on and off the trail ).


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

*Nice post*



dvo said:


> ... I have a 17 year old son that rides ( thinks he is going to be the next Sam Hill ) and I am constantly preaching to him how you have to behave on multi use trails, but in the interest of safety I bought him a full face helmet. The real problem is that no one is teaching the young kids about respect for others ( on and off the trail ).


dvo,

I don't think Shanedog was telling anybody what equipment to wear. What I got out of his post was that we need to be aware of how others may perceive us. Over the years, I've had numerous encounters with folks I know that didn't recognize me with my bike gear on.

In that regard, I think you are on the same path in both what you tell your son and your point about teaching kids respect for others. That brings this thread right back to the original poster's points about the need for both courtesy and good judgment.

What's problematic for our sport is that many youngsters (and more than a few supposedly mature folks) lack those qualities. Those of us who try to be respectful and work towards more access also just want to ride our bikes without being constantly being the manners police.


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## Roger___ (Jan 27, 2004)

*Can be a problem in Auburn too...*

on both Stage Coach and Confluence where speed is involved and where constant trail user interaction is going on(especially right now)....and although 99% of the folks are excellent in terms of trail respect for other users it's the 1% that disregards others rights to the trail...unfortunately those are the accounts that most of us here about.

To the 1% please be respectful and practice caution.

And the 1% is not necessarily the "shuttling crowd" but with the full armour and big bikes they do appear more intimidating to other users....due to that it's important they be even more respectful and cautious around other users.


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Is that like saying ah, you're a dh wannabe? Say no more... Armor and ff when riding xc trails...yes, definitely lack of skills after a few years.


Sure; I ride Northstar and Mammoth, but I guess that's not DH to you.

I love your logic - less armor, more skills. So those idiots riding without helmets... must be pros!

Perhaps I need to poach more; will keep me from encountering and offending you neoconservative advocates who understand the perfect balance of what to wear on a trail.

See you all out there! Or maybe not?

P.S. Gordo, the 70s have long passed; moustache and short shorts are not appropriate Headland fire trail gear.


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## twistgripper (Dec 4, 2004)

*Purple Helmets*



GoGoGordo said:


> Otherwise known as a butt trumpet.


Its use demonstrated here by the Purple Helmets @ IOM.


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## datenschwanz (Jul 12, 2004)

gordo- that post is hilarious.


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