# Custom Cannondale headset for large OD steel headtube



## forwardcomponents (Dec 2, 2008)

I am developing a custom steel frame that will incorporate a Cannondale Headshok. There is no tubing readily available for such a project since Cannondale headsets do not work with the new True Temper or Paragon 44mm ID headtubes. I decided to just use plain 4130 tubing and build a custom head tube and headset to accommodate the unique Cannondale bearings. 

The project got me thinking about the issue of securing 44mm ID tubing for standard 1.5" headsets. There has been considerable discussion about that here. Walt went through the trouble of having True Temper draw some steel tubing of that size, for what has turned out to be a very limited production run. With Paragon Machine Works now supplying a range of sizes, the problem is largely solved. Of course custom builders may want more options. 

Building the custom headset inspired me to consider custom headset adapters as a more convenient option for some large diameter head tube projects. The tubing I am using is standard 2.0" OD, with a 1.865(47.4mm) ID. An adapter with a 44mm ID could easily be made to fit in this headtube, giving the custom framebuilder the choice of any length or thickness of tubing for a 1.5" fork.


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

The availability of reamers has to come into the equation at some point, and I for one don't fancy having to make a headset for every frame I sell. 

Reynolds will be producing a 631 44mm headtube which will help

Matt


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## forwardcomponents (Dec 2, 2008)

18bikes said:


> The availability of reamers has to come into the equation at some point, and I for one don't fancy having to make a headset for every frame I sell.
> 
> Reynolds will be producing a 631 44mm headtube which will help
> 
> Matt


Leaving aside the reamer issue, an adapter is all that would be required. Any headset could be used after that. If a framebuilder is using a lot of oversized head tubes, it might be worth his time to produce a batch of adapters. They could even be sold to other framebuilders who are using large head tubes with a similar ID.

Just a suggestion.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Reynolds has 44 ID HT stock.
I'm told that TT will make theirs available.
You can go to the trouble to make adapters, but easier options are becoming more available.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Think I'd prefer it if there was another alternative to the Cane Creek XX44 headset.


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

Why not just use a Project 321 adapter?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Yeah, that would be nice...*

I've bugged King about it on and off. They are too slammed with current production to think much about it, though, or at least that's what they say.

I would be shocked not to see something from them soon, given that the Cielos all run the 44mm standard, and the tapered steerer forks are becoming more and more common.

-Walt



Thylacine said:


> Think I'd prefer it if there was another alternative to the Cane Creek XX44 headset.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> Think I'd prefer it if there was another alternative to the Cane Creek XX44 headset.


http://nukeproof.com/headsets/nukeproof-headsets

I may have had something to do with this.

We also offer a 1.5in version with external top and bottom cups, an external 1.125in version to allow "same geometry" with a straight steerer (rather than using an internal cup).

We did do the first production run with 20mm deep insert cups, but some of our team were worried about compatibility with other frames, and we've now revised to a standard cup insert depth.

However, Nukeproof, Ragley and (another) brand of UK hardtail will be coming with headtubes bored to take 20mm insert cups.


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## forwardcomponents (Dec 2, 2008)

jgerhardt said:


> Why not just use a Project 321 adapter?


The adapter I am proposing would be for tubes that do not have a 44mm ID. The scarcity of 44mm ID tubing currently available seems to be an issue for framebuilders, judging by the discussions on this forum. I am suggesting that framebuilders simply build adapters for tubing such as the one I have used, and supply the adapters pre installed with their custom frames.

The tubing I am using is economical and readily available 4130 straight guage tubing, which happens to have a 47.4mm ID. It may be easier to source this tubing and make an adapter than to be constrained by the limited availability of 44mm ID tubing. If a group of builders expect to build a lot of frames for 1.5" forks over the next year, why not get together and have a batch of adapters made for 1.5" or 1.5"/1.125" headsets? Simple anodized aluminum adapters would be very economical and offer the frame builder flexibility in head tube selection.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*No*

You have misunderstood the situation - 44mm ID tubing was a problem 4 or 5 months ago. Now there are multiple sources for it, in several configurations. Not an issue.

Sorry, but this isn't a product that anyone is going to need, or at least need enough to make adapters profitable.

-Walt



forwardcomponents said:


> The adapter I am proposing would be for tubes that do not have a 44mm ID. The scarcity of 44mm ID tubing currently available seems to be an issue for framebuilders, judging by the discussions on this forum. I am suggesting that framebuilders simply build adapters for tubing such as the one I have used, and supply the adapters pre installed with their custom frames.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

That's cool Eric, well done! :thumbsup:



forwardcomponents said:


> I am developing a custom steel frame that will incorporate a Cannondale Headshok. There is no tubing readily available for such a project since Cannondale headsets do not work with the new True Temper or Paragon 44mm ID headtubes. I decided to just use plain 4130 tubing and build a custom head tube and headset to accommodate the unique Cannondale bearings.
> 
> The project got me thinking about the issue of securing 44mm ID tubing for standard 1.5" headsets. There has been considerable discussion about that here. Walt went through the trouble of having True Temper draw some steel tubing of that size, for what has turned out to be a very limited production run. With Paragon Machine Works now supplying a range of sizes, the problem is largely solved. Of course custom builders may want more options.
> 
> Building the custom headset inspired me to consider custom headset adapters as a more convenient option for some large diameter head tube projects. The tubing I am using is standard 2.0" OD, with a 1.865(47.4mm) ID. An adapter with a 44mm ID could easily be made to fit in this headtube, giving the custom framebuilder the choice of any length or thickness of tubing for a 1.5" fork.


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## forwardcomponents (Dec 2, 2008)

bobbotron said:


> That's cool Eric, well done! :thumbsup:


The headset is being anodized next week. I have an 80mm travel Headshok ready. Now I just have to build a frame for it!


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i was pretty sure i saw a king 44/external lower cup in interbike coverage?


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> Think I'd prefer it if there was another alternative to the Cane Creek XX44 headset.


There will be a 110 version pretty soon.

Do you (either of you two W's and the B) see a downside to the XX44 (says the guy who's next frame will have the 110 version)?

From the Cane Creek facebook page:

"... we'll also soon have them in the redesigned 110-Series, as well as our new 40-Series. Stay tuned for a website relaunch in late January 2011..."


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*No*

The cups are fine, the hardware is fine, the bearings are so-so, but you can replace them so easily it doesn't really matter (and around here, they'll probably last decades anyway). The XX44 is great, IMO. The 110 version will be even nicer, but mostly just because it'll have nicer bearings.

I would like to see one from King, just because I like those guys, but the lack of headset options isn't a big deal to me - what exists is nice and works fine. More will become available this year, I'm sure, because everyone is building for tapered forks now.

-Walt



teamdicky said:


> There will be a 110 version pretty soon.
> 
> Do you (either of you two W's and the B) see a downside to the XX44 (says the guy who's next frame will have the 110 version)?
> 
> ...


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Walt said:


> The cups are fine, the hardware is fine, the bearings are so-so, but you can replace them so easily it doesn't really matter (and around here, they'll probably last decades anyway). The XX44 is great, IMO. The 110 version will be even nicer, but mostly just because it'll have nicer bearings.
> 
> I would like to see one from King, just because I like those guys, but the lack of headset options isn't a big deal to me - what exists is nice and works fine. More will become available this year, I'm sure, because everyone is building for tapered forks now.
> 
> -Walt


Thanks Walt...

My curiosity is culled.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

not the photo i saw, but another...is that a 1.5" headtube then?

(shiggys photo...)


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

again, not the photo i saw, but one from bikeradar...










suggestion of a 1.5" inset/external?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

and another from singletrackworld that would suggest that it is a 44 top/1.5" bottom...

oh well...


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

dRjOn said:


> and another from singletrackworld that would suggest that it is a 44 top/1.5" bottom...
> 
> oh well...


That's right. They don't do a 44mm external bottom at the moment.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

forwardcomponents said:


> The headset is being anodized next week. I have an 80mm travel Headshok ready. Now I just have to build a frame for it!


Right on! I'm excited to see what you get up to. If your BB is any indication, it will be pretty sweet. :thumbsup:


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