# Lightened up Riprock 24



## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

My 9yo got a rimrock 24 for christmas 2016 and it was such a great "first real" mountain bike for her. We were able to get out on some trails ride together and then we found a local summer race series and have really enjoyed doing that. She wasn't where she wanted to be after moving up this year so I sourced some older American classic 26 wheels, 2.2 rocket tons, rigid carbon fork, matura m2 hydro brakes, carbon bar and seat post, magnesium pedals, and switched out the twist shift for a trigger shifter with new silicone grips. That took the bike down from 29.5lb to 21lb and cost just under $300. She likes it waayyyy more now than with the plus tires and suspension fork. I'll move some of the parts to the 13" 27.5 she's going to get for christmas and likely move the 26" parts to a non-girly colored rimrock when my boy gets a little taller so those parts will get well used also.

Just throwing out some ideas for those of you who, like me, love the geo of that bike for the kids, but wanted to lighten things up.


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

do you think the white brothers fork would fit a 24x2.8 by any chance?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I didn’t look as the 110mm boost hub wouldn’t fit the 100mm qr fork. I’ll try to check it out Sunday.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Interesting to see the frame will accept a 26" wheel. That's a good tip for lots of people out there! What brand/model fork did you go with?


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Awesome photo.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

> Interesting to see the frame will accept a 26" wheel.


It's a pretty good pointer at the geometry when it's running a 24" wheel. 
If that's good or bad ... different discussion but its hardly going to help getting/keeping the front wheel up.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Steve-XtC said:


> It's a pretty good pointer at the geometry when it's running a 24" wheel.
> If that's good or bad ... different discussion but its hardly going to help getting/keeping the front wheel up.


Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you are saying there.

I did measure the axle to crown of the forks and found the 26" carbon fork at 422mm and the 24" suspension fork at 439mm. That is with the suspension fork extended but the fork was too stiff for my daughters weight to even have any static sag. She would come back from a race and only have used about and inch of travel so it was pretty useless to have.



RMCDan said:


> Awesome photo.


Yes! Phil Beckman at pbcreativephoto.com takes amazing pictures! Very fortunate to have him capture these memories.



SactoGeoff said:


> Interesting to see the frame will accept a 26" wheel. That's a good tip for lots of people out there! What brand/model fork did you go with?


It a White Brothers fork, probably from the mid 2000's I'd guess. Got it from a guy who's kids raced back in the 26" days and he had the wheelset, fork, and another SID XX carbon fork that I've so far been unable to source parts for. Really good, lightweight stuff.

I was talking to another guy the other day about the 26" bike and he mentioned he also had an ultralight 26" wheelset he didn't need that he'd give to us. There's probably a lot of these parts still floating around, and it might take some effort to find but it would be worth it!


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you are saying there.


Just remarking if you can get a 26" wheel in the rear triangle then it must have a very long rear triangle for a 24.
It's going to be very hard for shorter kids to manual or keep the front wheel up off a dropoff


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## kabayan (Oct 25, 2004)

Great job! Seems obvious in hindsight with all these bikes that take 27.5+ and 29 wheels.


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

Steve-XtC said:


> . . . it must have a very long rear triangle for a 24.
> . . .


It has been discussed here in the forum lately. 24" Plus bikes are sized like 26" "normal" bikes, and the upgrade presented here is the proof. That's not necessarily bad, but if your kid had a 20" bike which fits OK, a 24" plus will probably be too big for him/her.

Even without the "Plus" fashion, the jump between 20" and 24" bikes is very big.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

oren_hershco said:


> It has been discussed here in the forum lately. 24" Plus bikes are sized like 26" "normal" bikes, and the upgrade presented here is the proof. That's not necessarily bad, but if your kid had a 20" bike which fits OK, a 24" plus will probably be too big for him/her.
> 
> Even without the "Plus" fashion, the jump between 20" and 24" bikes was very big.


Agree*... and as I said good or bad is a whole other discussion...

I guess the point is they might drop standover etc but it's a really really long chain stay that's going to take a really tall kid to get their weight behind the rear axle..

The rip rock has the same chainstay length as my medium adult 27.5 trail bike and almost as much as my XC hardtail or from the other end 30mm more than a trailcraft 24 or even more for an Orbea 24.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Got it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

MXIV424,

I think this is awesome. So much better than the pig of a plus bike was ever going to be. 

Quite honestly Steve, from the pics it really doesnt look like the ass end on that bike is overly long. Definitely acceptable for a 26" wheel. You know I generally agree about chainstay length. From the looks, MX has transformed this bike from a trendy pig into a sharpened weapon. 

MX, get her into some clipless. She'll drop you up the climbs! The pink looks bad ass, by the way.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> MXIV424,
> 
> I think this is awesome. So much better than the pig of a plus bike was ever going to be.


It's not really better vs worse. (As I said originally, that's a whole separate discussion ... ) I am more remarking that it's a good pointer at the Geo and size of the kid.



> Quite honestly Steve, from the pics it really doesnt look like the ass end on that bike is overly long. Definitely acceptable for a 26" wheel. You know I generally agree about chainstay length. From the looks, MX has transformed this bike from a trendy pig into a sharpened weapon.


As I say ... it's not about either being better or worse but what at...
The fat tyres probably give loads of downhill confidence and the 26ers plenty of rolling and climbing... neither are going to be really agile but that would come at the expense of something else.

My 27.5 trail bike is agile but that comes at the expense of downhill stability.... and a light front end when climbing.

Jnr's 24 full suss has some 2.5" tires as well as some 2.1's ... awesome grip and superstable in the air due to huge rotating mass .. and absolutely rubbish for pedalling anywhere...

I did try a 26" wheel in just for fun the other week (just off my DJ bike with a QR) but it won't fit...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Steve, it's an XC slayer now. 

Look at the height of her seat. She fits the bike well. I personally don't think that she is having a hard time with agility or being over powered by the wheel size. The size difference between 24 plus and 26 is pretty negligible, and before we were all told that we had to swallow a load of marketing horseshit and ride plus everything, regular width carcass tires were just fine. She isn't rolling on cross tires either. 

Look at the pic of her ripping around the berm....she isn't covering the brakes AT ALL. That isn't a sign of someone that is in need of more confidence in my experience. 

Clearly this little lady doesnt need the confidence crutch that plus tires provide. 

My opinion, is this is better. In every metric. Just my ioinion though.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

oren_hershco said:


> ... the jump between 20" and 24" bikes is very big.


This depends on the bike. My son had a Zaskar 20 for his first real MTB. Two bikes of the top of my head that have the same effective TT/Reach as his 20, but are 24" are the V-Pace 24 and the Trailcraft Pine ridge 24.

And his 20 fit him great for his age and size. V Paces whole M.O. is making 24" like a 29er concept. Bigger wheels.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the input! This really comes down to trying to make it the best bike it can her for HER, without busting MY wallet lol. I really thought the fat tires would be good for her but as soon as we made the changes, she said “this is soooooo much better” (say it 9 year old girl voice for full effect). The fast girls in her class run an epic carbon ht, isla pro, and a canyon exceed...so we’re going to be a bit behind no matter what we do to the bike, but also have about $2k to put towards a future bike(s). 

Went tubeless, changed the saddle, and new skewers to drop the weight to 20.28lbs. We’re going to 10 speed in the next week or so then deciding what tooth ring to get on the Trailcraft dm cranks which should get us sub 20lb!! 

That V Pace bike looks rad!


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

HEMIjer said:


> do you think the white brothers fork would fit a 24x2.8 by any chance?


Sorry, been busy and just got to measure it. There's a bit over 3.5" so plenty of room for the 24x2.8


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> The fast girls in her class run an epic carbon ht, isla pro, and a canyon exceed...so we're going to be a bit behind no matter what we do to the bike


No really, though I don't know the riprock frame in general there is very little weight difference between kids frames because the frames themselves are not that big.

A light XC bike is going to be around 18-20lb regardless because it has a chain, drivetrain, hubs etc. all built to adult spec and weight. 
Ultimately it comes down to the size of a chain-link ... (at least in my head) .. chains have a standard pitch, this determines the chain wheel teeth, cassette teeth, rear mech size etc. etc.

To picture this .. imagine if the chain was 1/3 smaller - so the same gear ratio's could be had with a 1/3 smaller cassette, chain ring etc.

Of course this isn't going to change but in terms of those carbon and Ti frames they are nowhere near as big an advantage as on an adult XL bike - they have the same disadvantages!

My 8yr old races XC on a sub $300 bike .(base is a 2015 Cannondale Race).. (or frame and forks) ... everything else is replaced (except the mech hanger). He doesn't really care about the carbon and Ti frames behind him and only cares about the ones in front until he passes them.

I quite honestly can't remember when any of the 'exotic bikes' have been on the podium for XC... I'm sure there must have been some - we look at them in the start grid sometimes ... but there really is no pattern. It's not like the podiums for every race are taken by exotic bikes.

He races at the highest level possible for his age (nationals are banned here for U16 and below) so he races 2 regional sets and he knows the other kids on the podium (most of the time) and non of them are riding exotic bikes either.

I'm sure as the kids get bigger and the frames get bigger it will make more difference but right now I don't see a big difference. The bigger and older kids in his class are racing 27.5's but they are not more consistently on the podium either... some courses they lose out and some they gain on the bigger bikes and bigger wheels. (There is a definite trend on some courses for bigger bikes and on other for smaller)


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Steve, it's an XC slayer now.
> 
> Look at the height of her seat. She fits the bike well. I personally don't think that she is having a hard time with agility or being over powered by the wheel size. The size difference between 24 plus and 26 is pretty negligible, and before we were all told that we had to swallow a load of marketing horseshit and ride plus everything, regular width carcass tires were just fine. She isn't rolling on cross tires either.
> 
> ...


Sure but what you ride to race on vs gain skills on are not always the same thing.

When there is an A line in XC confidence and skills are required to send the A line... You can ride XC like Nino Schurter or Jolanda Neff or with wheels never leaving the ground but meanwhile XC is getting increasingly technical.









A few weeks ago we were riding DH but had his XC bike with us. He had a bit of a stack and the DH bike needed a few repairs and he went out and rode the DH easy routes on his XC bike (I didn't know I thought he was going to the pumptrack) .. 
Yes he was a bit slower but he was clearing doubles on his XC bike.. but he would not in my opinion have developed those skills soley by riding his XC bike. (Just like Jolanda also trains on other more agile bikes and indoor skills areas.. )

There are quite a few YouTube's on what Jolanda rides and how she trains... and a lot of her training is not on a XC bike and not on a XC course.

I don't really know where Nino got his confidence for airtime (never really researched it though he has the same national facilities available as Jolanda)... but it certainly works for him.

What I do know is *most people* are going to not get the confidence or skills to *jump when its faster* if they are only riding a XC slayer. (From personal experience this results in injury to bike, forks and self)

It's much easier to get control on super technical on a different bike and then apply the technique on the twitchy XC geo... than try and learn dirt jumps on a XC geo to apply to jump between berms when its faster.

Once you have that confidence and technique .. sure you can even apply it on the XC geo.

One of my kids friends lives on a bike park and a month or so ago he was using Jnr's XC bike on the dirt jumps and clearing 20' gaps... (unknown to me at the time)

I quickly confiscated the bike before it got damaged but before I did it was amazing to see the small 7yr old on the complete XC bike clearing the 20' gaps completely in control and with grace.

Quite honestly I now look back at my younger ideas of long stems (everyone had them then, even DH riders) ... and bike geo and wish I had ALSO done more and different riding and bike geo's.

One of my friends is a decade younger and still actively racing XC and we go trail riding with the kids (who both race). 90% of what we usually ride together would be suitable for XC... He's always remarking how I am so fast tech downhill and over rough technical sections even when I'm riding my XC HT and he's riding his FS XC I still completely slaughter him.

Equally my lad used to be slower than his on technical sections when he only had his XC slayer... now when we ride and my lad his developed skills on his FS he applies them to riding his XC and he is much much faster on the technical.

We discussed this quite a bit... when I was my friends age I'd only ridden XC (and road) bikes. I was probably slower on descents and technical than he is now. I was more concerned with my wheels being on the ground than what was the fastest way across a technical section.

It was only when I got a different Geo bike that I started to feel confident .. sure I would go round the berms or take an A line in a race but I wasn't really gaining places doing it. 
What I lacked was an ability to control the bike in the air ... so often the front wheel was not staying up even on smaller drop offs and jumps. (Things that today I'd hardly notice but then seemed pretty scary to really send)

Back then XC was less technical... mostly just a slightly rougher form of CX... but as today its getting increasingly technical developing skills and experience in air time and technical descents is probably more important... but it's also a LOT of fun just by itself.

I have no idea where Jnr will end up....
2 yrs ago it was all XC... this year he had to miss XC races to compete in DH .. he picks up podiums either way but XC is getting harder for him as they usually have a start grid based on the previous race.. so if he misses a race because it clashes with another he ends up starting from the back and having to pass 80 plus kids before he can even start the race properly. (Given we live between 2 regions and he competes in both he also missed races last year)

On the plus side this year he passes almost as many on descents as on climbs on the right course whereas last year he was only making up places on climbs.

I have a feeling once he is old enough to compete he will end up doing Enduro ... ????

Anyway... what's the point of all that???
I really think that XC specific bikes are great for racing but that you will be faster (and probably have fun as well) if you also develop skills and experience on a non XC slayer geo.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Instead of a plus bike, I'd say ride a bmx bike. One sharpens you, the other dulls. 

Which one's which? 

I've never been one to use crutches though. 

Anyway, it seems that MX's daughter is getting more confidence out of the current iteration (or I should say correction) of the Riprock... Every other opinion about what he should do or should have her ride is superfluous and honestly a bit rude and insulting to his thread.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Instead of a plus bike, I'd say ride a bmx bike. One sharpens you, the other dulls.
> 
> Which one's which?


Riding a BMX down a DH WC course will leave you in hospital... 
Equally *learning* to do a back-flip on a Plus/Fat bike will also put you in hospital... 
On the other hand there are those who *learned* how to back-flip on a BMX or DJ bike who can then back-flip a fat bike...



> I've never been one to use crutches though.


Then it seems when you try and learn to backflip your XC bike you'll be stuck in bed for a long time... :madman:

Regardless of using the examples above you seem to be regarding using the correct tool for the job as a crutch. 
Here is the thing ... The Top XC riders like Jolanda use the right tools to develop the skills... just like the Top DH riders ride road bikes to develop the fitness.

Much as many of the Pro DH racers despise every second they spend on a road bike they recognize it as the right tool... Rachael must find road bikes even more distasteful after her accident training but she still rides them and is still one of or perhaps the fittest of the female DH racers because of it.

Watching Jolanda's training she doesn't seem to find riding bikes with more suitable geo for the skills she is trying to develop distasteful at all... indeed she seems to actively enjoy developing her skills on the right tools.



> Anyway, it seems that MX's daughter is getting more confidence out of the current iteration (or I should say correction) of the Riprock... Every other opinion about what he should do or should have her ride is superfluous and honestly a bit rude and insulting to his thread.


It's your opinion its a "correction" ... its just as valid to say correcting the Riprock just requires a saw and rewelding the chainstays 2" shorter, it all depends what someone wants from the bike.

I'm not telling MX what he should do with that bike, I'm simply pointing out the severe limitations that frame has. If your use for the frame works with those limitations then go ahead.

Jnr's Cannondale is very similar... it's a fraction off accepting a 26" 2.2" on the back... I could probably sneak in a low profile 26 (and might)... but it will never be a versatile frame. (Short of a welding torch)

Jnr has 2 bikes but that doesn't cover skills development... but then he can beg and borrow from friends for that. When he plays on the dirt jumps he borrows the right tool... once he has gained enough skill on the tool he can then transfer the skill to another bike.

I don't see that as a crutch... I just see that as using the right tool.

There is a view that you learn on a hardtail (or rigid).. and you develop the skills to choose a line. The evidence is that you develop the skill to choose a line but that line isn't necessarily the fastest line. I subscribed to this view for several decades and I'm pretty sure I was wrong!

If you see the training someone like Jolanda does they develop the skill on the right tool to learn and pick the line then they transfer that to riding the same line with a short travel HT and the seat up...

I haven't looked into Nino's training but given he has the same facilities available I'd expect it isn't dis-similar.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Steve, are you aware of just how much diatribe you have spouted and how much you have sullied Mx's thread? 

What are you ETERNALLY trying to prove?? 

Drop it. You are barking up the wrong tree with the schooling you're trying to constantly give, at least as far as I'm concerned. I'll wager quite a few others too. 

This has blown the **** out of MX's thread, for God's sakes.


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## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

MXIV424 said:


> She wasn't where she wanted to be after moving up this year so I sourced some older American classic 26 wheels, 2.2 rocket tons, ....


Older wheelset means non boost? I thought this bike has boost spacing in the rear. I love your upgrades and really want to do something similar to my daughters riprock.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

MXIV424 said:


> Thanks everyone for the input! This really comes down to trying to make it the best bike it can her for HER, without busting MY wallet lol. I really thought the fat tires would be good for her but as soon as we made the changes, she said "this is soooooo much better" (say it 9 year old girl voice for full effect). *The fast girls in her class run an epic carbon ht, isla pro, and a canyon exceed...so we're going to be a bit behind no matter what we do to the bike, but also have about $2k to put towards a future bike(s).*
> 
> Went tubeless, changed the saddle, and new skewers to drop the weight to 20.28lbs. We're going to 10 speed in the next week or so then deciding what tooth ring to get on the Trailcraft dm cranks which should get us sub 20lb!!
> 
> That V Pace bike looks rad!


Nice work. I applaud you for doing what you can. And in regards to the competition, it really depends on your area. In socal, we have a lot of kids on very well spec'd top line bikes, **** its very common actually. Some of these NICA teams are 30+ kids deep with more than a handful of coaches. They travel with full trailers lol. I know what it's like, we do what we can with what we have and are willing. :thumbsup:

Check out the Tideace thread when your kids outgrows the 24er.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

El_Zilcho said:


> Older wheelset means non boost? I thought this bike has boost spacing in the rear. I love your upgrades and really want to do something similar to my daughters riprock.


Correct. Rear is a qr x 135mm I believe. The factory front is a qr x 110 but the fork I got was non boost 100mm.


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## El_Zilcho (Feb 4, 2013)

MXIV424 said:


> Correct. Rear is a qr x 135mm I believe. The factory front is a qr x 110 but the fork I got was non boost 100mm.


Great. Thank you. I was planning to put lighter 26 air fork in there anyway. This way she'll have a fat tire set up for downhill days and light 26" setup for other 95% of her riding.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Just a thought on running the Specialized wheel set; I think if we did more burly type trails or any park type riding, I would consider running 26 wheels with a 26x2.5ish tire of choice and decent suspension fork. Still a considerable weight savings with big, grippy tread. There's more than enough clearance in the back for something that large, like 12mm on each side of the tread to the frame.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

We went 10 speed 11-36 with a 32t Trailcraft dm crank. Bike sits at 19.03lbs and will probably stay there as she’s growing like a weed again. Time to start putting that 27.5 together lol. I’m pretty happy with this bike for staying around $900, even more so considering it would still be under 21lbs with a suspension fork.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Ain't that how it goes MX? We do all this customizing and they keep growing, ha! 

Definitely post up your 27.5 build when you embark on it.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

What luck! The Dspyder matches the frame accent color, nice.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

MXIV424 said:


> She wasn't where she wanted to be after moving up this year so I sourced some older American classic 26 wheels, 2.2 rocket tons, rigid carbon fork, matura m2 hydro brakes, carbon bar and seat post, magnesium pedals, and switched out the twist shift for a trigger shifter with new silicone grips. That took the bike down from 29.5lb to 21lb and cost just under $300. She likes it waayyyy more now than with the plus tires and suspension fork. I'm pretty happy with this bike for staying around $900, even more so considering it would still be under 21lbs with a suspension fork.
> 
> 
> > Nice, I need to be the fly on the wall and watch you shop! All that for $300??? Did you shop piece by piece on Ebay or what?
> ...


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I got a small deal on the bike and spent $500 - which I’ve seen them as low as $250 on Facebook marketplace so someone can save some money that way. 

The fork and wheels I was able to trade a guy that has a ton of very used bike parts so it didn’t cost me anything out of pocket. I actually got a second wheelset as well but it’s so rough I just used them for spokes on the set we’re running now. 

The saddle, shifter, grips, seat clamp, cassette, brakes, rotors, skewer, and tires came to $210 using amazon and some random UK based online retailers. 

The Trailcraft crank was $170 plus the second cassette at $66 for a grand total of $946
I think the TC crank is a little on the spendy side for a kids bike but is really, really nice, and will move up to her next bike as well - then back down for her brother, then up, then down again...hahaha. If someone was willing to cut down an old lightweight crank they could save some coin there.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

*27.5....it fits*

Out of sheer curiosity I put the 27.5 wheels for her next bike on the Riprock. Not that I'm going to do it....but they fit . 27.5x2.25. Maybe need to clearance that kickstand mount a hair, but still.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Grind away my friend! 

Have you set up the front yet and checked out the BB height? I think you just gave me an idea on the next build! I'm going to start looking for 24" Riprock pigs!


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

B.B. height with 26x2.25 rocket Ron’s is 10.75”. Height with 27.5x2.25 rocket Ron’s is 11.375”. Head tube angle comes up to 70.5 ish, but it’s a 26 fork so a 27.5 would get it back to 69ish with a slightly higher B.B.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

*Help needed with Riprock chain issue*








Not sure this is the best thread for this question, but somebody please suggest an alternative place to post it if you know of one.

My question: My son has a 24" Riprock and the chain keeps falling off - mostly when he's riding rough ie. drops, chunder, etc. There is way too much chain slap going on. I've replaced the derailleur, but that alone didn't solve the problem. Someone on the trail the other day said his son's Riprock had the same issue after about 5 months of riding it. He said he had to replace the whole drivetrain. Most importantly a NW chainring. I guess that's where I'm at now, but being a novice bike mechanic I'm not sure the right components to purchase. Having trouble determining sizing, etc. Should the chain ring be 64mm, 88mm or 96mm? Is the bb external? The stock setup on the Riprock is a pressed chain ring and this is also throwing me off a bit. What size cassette is best, 9/10 speed?

Any help is greatly appreciated as his frustration level is very high right now. Chain fell off about 15 times during yesterday's ride!


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I haven’t had that issue with our bike. I would have thought that the bash guard on the outside of the chainring, along with the small chain retainer, would have been better at keeping the chain on than a narrow wide chainring alone. I would double check the chain length and make sure it isn’t too long. 

The B.B. is a square taper so you’ll need a square taper B.B. tool and an 8mm (I think) hex key. Also get a chain tool to do the chain install. 

The frame is 68mm BSA threaded and if you get an external B.B. with a new crankset, you’ll need the correct tool for that. Crank arms are 152mm so Trailcraft or SRAM NX 155mm are some good options there.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

rbferretti said:


> View attachment 1214771
> 
> Not sure this is the best thread for this question, but somebody please suggest an alternative place to post it if you know of one.
> 
> ...


Curious what new derailleur you bought, and was it a clutch version?

You will have to replace chain, cassette, chainring at a minimum. Narrow-wide style chainring and a clutch rear derailleur is a great and easy chain retention system, but you probably need to spend some $$$. Clutch rear derailluers start at 10 speed I am pretty sure.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/how-to-measure-bolt-circle-diameter-bcd is a great resource for measuring your chainring bcd. If its a bike your son plans on riding for a while or are passing down the cranks are a nice upgrade as MXIV424 mentioned. But be prepared to spend some cash once you go down that rabbit hole. Cassette, rear derailluer, cranks, shifter and chain will probably be a $250 minimum upgrade.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

The small retainer that came with the bike didn't really do anything but make it more difficult to put the chain back on when it did fall off. The chain is the stock chain that came with the bike, but I think you're right that it may be a good next step to replace it or take out a link.
Thanks for the info on the BB and tools required. Because my daughter will probably ride this bike when she outgrows her 20" Giant XTC its worth it for me to put some money into it in order to dial it in. I've started to price things out and will definitely check back if I have any questions on components and sizing.

Thanks again!


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

GSJ1973 said:


> Curious what new derailleur you bought, and was it a clutch version?
> 
> Purchased a new Shimano Tourney. Same one that came with the bike. the original didn't seem to hold enough tension on the chain, but evidently that wasn't THE problem, just A problem.
> 
> ...


As I mentioned to MXIV424, the bike will be passed down to my daughter so it makes sense to put the money into it.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Drivechains are replacement wear items anyway. Chains wear and the links become loose. The more they wear the more damage they do to other parts of the drivechain. 


There is much discussion over ratios of chain to cassette to chainring etc. 
Vs cost ... some people run the chain till it’s all trashed.. others change it when it gets to a early wear point ... (you can measure this) 
Cleaning makes a huge difference but ... depends on your climate and mud.. a lot of ours has sand as well and that really wears them fast ...

They wear just with use and tourney is just the bottom end. (They are not really designed for off-road use anyway, even a small stick will break it)
Narrowwide alone is good ... but as the chain wears you might get some very occasional chain drops but you need to be unlucky .. and have a decent rear mech but modern decent rear mechs (eg Deore) have a clutch anyway. 

Chain drops on a decent setup can still occur but my experience is it’s trail related .. almost nothing to do with the size of jumps ... but some rhythm ... timing between them.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

Steve-XtC said:


> Drivechains are replacement wear items anyway. Chains wear and the links become loose. The more they wear the more damage they do to other parts of the drivechain.
> 
> There is much discussion over ratios of chain to cassette to chainring etc.
> Vs cost ... some people run the chain till it's all trashed.. others change it when it gets to a early wear point ... (you can measure this)
> ...


And of course 8 year olds are not very good at maintaining their bikes. As much as I try to keep up with cleaning it for him, it does not get treated as well as you or I would maintain our bikes. It is also his daily ride around the neighborhood bike and gets dropped, left outside, ridden on the beach - abused.

I think I'll start with a new chain today and order the parts for the drivetrain replacement. Chain Reaction has this setup on sale Shimano Zee 1x10sp Gear Kit Bundle | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

MXIV424 said:


> Crank arms are 152mm so Trailcraft or SRAM NX 155mm are some good options there.


I would *strongly* suggest shorter cranks. In fact, length was the prime reason why I switched the crank set. The Riprock 20"+ had 120mm cranks, and suddenly the 24"+ has 152mm cranks? Doesn't make sense.

Shorter(140mm?) cranks will make the rider (kid) much more comfortable while pedaling, since they keep the knees from coming up so far at the top of the pedal stroke.

They also increase pedal clearance to the ground, vey nice for riders (kids) who can't power through rough sections, and who are more likely to accidentally put the wrong pedal down.

Finally, shorter cranks increase your balance and range of motion when the level cranks, usefully for technical riding.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

GSJ1973 said:


> Curious what new derailleur you bought, and was it a clutch version?
> 
> You will have to replace chain, cassette, chainring at a minimum. Narrow-wide style chainring and a clutch rear derailleur is a great and easy chain retention system, but you probably need to spend some $$$. Clutch rear derailluers start at 10 speed I am pretty sure.
> 
> https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/how-to-measure-bolt-circle-diameter-bcd is a great resource for measuring your chainring bcd. If its a bike your son plans on riding for a while or are passing down the cranks are a nice upgrade as MXIV424 mentioned. But be prepared to spend some cash once you go down that rabbit hole. Cassette, rear derailluer, cranks, shifter and chain will probably be a $250 minimum upgrade.


GSJ1973, do you know if the Riprock can accommodate a 1x10 setup?? I think I recall seeing somewhere that someone put at 10 speed cassette on, but had to take off one of the cogs to make it work, which makes me wonder if I need to purchase 9 speed components and if a 10 speed, clutch derailleur will work. Any thoughts on this?


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## Tjaard (Aug 17, 2007)

Couple different questions you have here. Here are the things you need to know.

Narrow wide chainrings are only available for 10 speed driver trains and up. They need the (narrow) 10 speed chain to work.
You can run a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed drivetrain absolutely fine.

So, if you have this, all you need to switch is the chainring(and crankset if needed) and chain. keep the rear derailleur and shifter the same.

If it’s a wheel for 8 speed(like on my old base 20”+ Riprock) a 10 speed cassette won’t fit, you need to ditch a cog.

If it’s a 10 speed hub(like on my current Expert 24+ Riprock), it goes. You might want to install an 11-40 cassette for more range though.

Hope that helps.
If not, please list which components are on their now, and what you want to achieve and we will help you out ;-)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Tjaard said:


> I would *strongly* suggest shorter cranks. In fact, length was the prime reason why I switched the crank set. The Riprock 20"+ had 120mm cranks, and suddenly the 24"+ has 152mm cranks? Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Shorter(140mm?) cranks will make the rider (kid) much more comfortable while pedaling, since they keep the knees from coming up so far at the top of the pedal stroke.
> 
> ...


Totally with Tjaard, I say this all the time. 152's on a bike this size and for the general size rider that will fit this frame, would be like us riding around on 195-200mm cranks.

I've done the math and done comparative percentage to leg length between my 175's and my legs to my sons legs and 135 is PERFECT. 140 is still too long and I don't jive with the idea that they'll grow into them...it's better to have cranks a little short than a little long, and by the time they're a little short its probably time for some new cranks and a different frame anyway.

The length of cranks on 99% of kids bikes right now and the excuses for why they're on there are flawed. Even the 'shorter' sizes aren't short enough. If I am remembering my math properly a 140 is still like a 180 for us.

Can't bite my tongue on that anymore.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Tjaard said:


> Couple different questions you have here. Here are the things you need to know.
> 
> Narrow wide chainrings are only available for 10 speed driver trains and up. They need the (narrow) 10 speed chain to work.
> You can run a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed drivetrain absolutely fine.
> ...


A 9spd chain will work on NW chainring. I ran a 9 just fine on my sons 8spd 20". Also, a clutch RD isn't imperative. Not a bad thing to have, but the chain will stay on just fime without. I have a non clutch on my wifes bike (a hardtail) and it doesn't go anywhere. She ain't smooth. I run clutched XTR on mine, I never use the clutch. (Also a hardtail) and it goes nowhere. I am smooth however. Still dont think it would come off if I wasn't. My son has a clutched XT 11 spd to accommodate his 10spd Sunrace 11-42 and the clutch stays OFF, and his chain goes nowhere as well. It is ROCKY where we ride.

I'd look into chainring wear and possible chainline issues causing that wear if your chain is coming off easily with any NW ring.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

Tjaard said:


> I would *strongly* suggest shorter cranks. In fact, length was the prime reason why I switched the crank set. The Riprock 20"+ had 120mm cranks, and suddenly the 24"+ has 152mm cranks? Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Shorter(140mm?) cranks will make the rider (kid) much more comfortable while pedaling, since they keep the knees from coming up so far at the top of the pedal stroke.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice on the cranks. He's been angling for a dropper post, but his seat hasn't been high enough to warrant one with the 152's. He may have a better case with the 140's! I was just about to buy the 152's so I'm glad I caught your post before I made the purchase.


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## rbferretti (Sep 2, 2018)

Tjaard said:


> Couple different questions you have here. Here are the things you need to know.
> 
> Narrow wide chainrings are only available for 10 speed driver trains and up. They need the (narrow) 10 speed chain to work.
> You can run a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed drivetrain absolutely fine.
> ...


Thanks Tjaard. Currently on the bike is an 8 speed setup. My understanding is the same as yours, that I would need to remove a cog from a 10 sp cassette. I guess my questions is can I still use a 10 speed derailleur and shifter or do I need to drop down to a 9 speed derailleur?

Also, any thoughts on where and what crankset to buy?? Thanks again!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

You do not need to remove a cog to put a 10spd cassette on an 8spd hub. The hub bodies are the same. You can even put an 11 on there.

Also, want to add here because I missed that Tjaard had said this, but you can certainly run 8spd with a NW ring. I kind of touched on this before, not fully reading Tjaards post, where I mentioned using a 9spd chain on a NW ring. You can use 9spd chain on an 8spd cassette with no ill effects. The width difference between 8 and 9spd chains is minimal and it will shift fine.

Now if your drive train is cooked and you need to replace, then bumping up a gear or two could be an option. But remember you need a matching shifter too.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

While I agree about the 135-140mm cranks being better suited for this bike, I can also say we never had issues with the 152/155 cranks. If I was just putting a 6-7 year old on this bike, or if our trails were rocky with a lot of pedal strikes, i'd go 135-140. For a big 7yo, 8, or 9 year old, I'd consider the 155. I went 155 knowing they'd be on the 27.5 bike by the end of the year.

Oh, and 5th place on the season...never thought I'd be so proud to see a 5th place hahahaha. Our first season of racing has been super fun and we got so much quality time as a family, I couldn't be more stoked!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

MXIV424 said:


> View attachment 1215091
> 
> 
> While I agree about the 135-140mm cranks being better suited for this bike, I can also say we never had issues with the 152/155 cranks. If I was just putting a 6-7 year old on this bike, or if our trails were rocky with a lot of pedal strikes, i'd go 135-140. For a big 7yo, 8, or 9 year old, I'd consider the 155. I went 155 knowing they'd be on the 27.5 bike by the end of the year.
> ...


She looks awesome! Congrats to her for kicking butt.

I fundamentally disagree on the crank length being judged on age, wheel size or what kind of terrain. I think it has to do entirely with mechanics/leg length.

We think 152 seems fine because it seems short...to us. It's not to them. Give her a chance to develop watts without having to strain her joints (under the false premise that a longer crank produces more power) and see how your little pro in the making feels about them. I'm betting she likes them better. Seat height will come up, weight on bike and translation to front wheel feel will improve, her knees won't be as flexed at top of stroke, her ability to push down on the forward/down stroke will be more efficient.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

My son is 5'3 and rides 155mm cranks just to give you an idea. He's going to keep riding those NX cranks for a while because the gap from 155mm to standard 165-170mm is pretty large.

Btw, grats on finishing OTH. Just finishing OTH is a feat in itself. That series just got too long this summer. My kid was racing in it with his team, but couldn't finish it. While riding the lifts in Big Bear, had a bad landing and ate it. It might not have been so bad had he worn pads like he was supposed to, smh. Hubris... Now he knows why everyone wears body armor all the time on the lifts. That took him out of OTH. Time to get prepped for nica again...


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Tjaard said:


> I would *strongly* suggest shorter cranks. In fact, length was the prime reason why I switched the crank set. The Riprock 20"+ had 120mm cranks, and suddenly the 24"+ has 152mm cranks? Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Shorter(140mm?) cranks will make the rider (kid) much more comfortable while pedaling, since they keep the knees from coming up so far at the top of the pedal stroke.
> 
> ...


This 100%! Crank length is critical new riders. Only the specialty brands like Isla and frog.... spec there bikes with appropriate size cranks and proportional BB height.
I have seen my boys get on regular bikes and not even want to ride them. Swap the cranks and it's an imitate change in comfort and power.

Congrats on the racing too. :thumbsup:


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

> I think I'll start with a new chain today and order the parts for the drivetrain replacement. Chain Reaction has this setup on sale Shimano Zee 1x10sp Gear Kit Bundle


You can get a larger cassette and a Zee short to work but ... you can also end up messing about, adding extenders... etc. so unless someone has added it on that mech hanger and those chain stays its always a risk you could end up messing and ultimately bigger gear range = longer chain so the short mech does more work...

I've got one on a long travel full suss (so that means even more chain) but 11-36 is pushing it and it's more comfy on a 11-32 but its ALSO got a top and bottom chain guide.

If you add the Deore med cage it's pretty much guaranteed you can do 11-42....

Funnily enough Jnr fancies himself as a product tester  
We were out this weekend and he decided to test the chain retention on his NW and clutch mech...(out of a conversation because I had a spare chain retainer but also down to a XC race he did over a year ago where he had a disaster and lost his chain from 1st place with 3 laps to go .. he ended up at the very back behind 40 odd kids before the sweeper helped him put it back on... didn't even get a podium - something he has blamed me for a year over for "not making sure his clutch was on"... He ended up in 5th or 6th and too embarrassed to stick around and congratulate his friends but on the plus side he learned to put his chain on himself 

Here he is with the clutch off doing his best to shake off the chain and prove me wrong....he cases the landing then bounces it about for good measure (quality is a bit poor but you can see the mech bouncing)






He eventually gave up ... decided against the retaining device as it would make it harder to get back on if it came off in a race. I think he finally accepted that sometimes chains come off... and perhaps it's his responsibility to check the bike over


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

jochribs said:


> She looks awesome! Congrats to her for kicking butt.
> 
> I fundamentally disagree on the crank length being judged on age, wheel size or what kind of terrain. I think it has to do entirely with mechanics/leg length.


Thanks!

I don't disagree with you at all, it's just the point of this thread was to let people like us - those that care/spend way too much on kids bikes - know that the Riprock is a pretty cool bike with a versatile frame. I was using age as a basis for leg length, also stating the style of riding is important because, if it were me, and I wanted to run a 100mm fork with 26x2.5 for shredding downhill, then I would go much shorter than I would going for an XC approach, regardless of inseam.

If I could have a do-over on this bike, I would have done the 140mm's a lot sooner...



thesmokingman said:


> My son is 5'3 and rides 155mm cranks just to give you an idea. He's going to keep riding those NX cranks for a while because the gap from 155mm to standard 165-170mm is pretty large.
> 
> Btw, grats on finishing OTH. Just finishing OTH is a feat in itself. That series just got too long this summer. My kid was racing in it with his team, but couldn't finish it. While riding the lifts in Big Bear, had a bad landing and ate it. It might not have been so bad had he worn pads like he was supposed to, smh. Hubris... Now he knows why everyone wears body armor all the time on the lifts. That took him out of OTH. Time to get prepped for nica again...


Thanks!

Oh no, what a bummer! It's always tough to learn that protection is more important than being cool. Hope you have a good nica season!



alexbn921 said:


> This 100%! Crank length is critical new riders. Only the specialty brands like Isla and frog.... spec there bikes with appropriate size cranks and proportional BB height.
> I have seen my boys get on regular bikes and not even want to ride them. Swap the cranks and it's an imitate change in comfort and power.
> 
> Congrats on the racing too. :thumbs:


Hey, thanks!

The Isla Pro 26 comes with 152mm cranks and the Frog 62 with 140mm which makes the 152mm on the Riprock somewhat reasonable. What isn't reasonable is the 155mm cranks on the 24" Norco Charger 4.1 we just got my son lol...look how high his knee is!! Im ordering some spawn 127 cranks for it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

MXIV424 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I don't disagree with you at all, it's just the point of this thread was to let people like us - those that care/spend way too much on kids bikes - know that the Riprock is a pretty cool bike with a versatile frame. I was using age as a basis for leg length, also stating the style of riding is important because, if it were me, and I wanted to run a 100mm fork with 26x2.5 for shredding downhill, then I would go much shorter than I would going for an XC approach, regardless of inseam.
> 
> If I could have a do-over on this bike, I would have done the 140mm's a lot sooner...


Oh I totally hear ya, and this is a great thread. What you've done with that bike is nothing short of awesome.

And you're totally right, this is a thread about your build, not crank length. I kinda lost sight of that myself for a moment.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

jochribs said:


> Oh I totally hear ya, and this is a great thread. What you've done with that bike is nothing short of awesome.
> 
> And you're totally right, this is a thread about your build, not crank length. I kinda lost sight of that myself for a moment.


Hey thanks! It's all good. Funny thing is I built up the 27.5 and turns out she fits pretty good on it, probably perfect come spring, so I turned the Riprock back to stock...kinda bummed me out. I'm going to have her ride it again stock to see what she thinks of it now haha.

New bike is rad. Need to get the right size seat post to move her seat over (borrowed moms), trim cables and brake lines, figure out what gearing to go with, see if she's heavy enough to use clipless pedals, and maybe do a lighter wheel set before races start next year. Those wheels came in just under 1600 grams and the tires waayyy over their claimed weight at 575g. Bike is at 21.5lbs as pictured.

I had to sell her on the forks because 9yo girls don't care about factory orange, they just know it's "not pink or teal"


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## sjroland (Jul 3, 2011)

Little help. Daughter has Riprock 24. Small 10 year old and had constant pedal strikes and ate it twice on a pump track that her old bike cleared. 


Can you just change out the crank arms? Where buy? What length? Difficult for install. LBS Job? Easier, better to change whole crankset. Is there an option that would lighten it up in the process of shortening the crank? help with the couple chain drops in the process.

Thanks in advance for your input.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

You can just change out crank arms. I went Trailcraft DM cranks but this route requires a new bottom bracket as well. This will drop more than 300 grams of weight from the bike and the narrow-wide ring will help prevent chain drop. Arm length and tooth count are selectable by you. You'd need a square taper removal socket, bottom bracket socket, and torque wrench to install properly.

https://www.trailcraftcycles.com/product/trailcraft-direct-mount-cranks/

If you're okay with a 32t ring you can do the Spawn crank arms at a 127mm or 140mm length. Length is going to be up to you and highly debated on the forum here. I'd say 140 for a 10yo. You only need a crank arm removal tool to swap out the arms. Very easy to remove with the correct tool.

https://spawncycles.com/spawn-cycles-alloy-cranks-127


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

For the price of tools and parts you'd nearly have enough for a used BMX bike. Pumptracks are for pumping and a BMX is infinitely easier for a kid than the Riprock to learn to pump. Plus the BMX bikes can be ridden for a really long time if you just size up the bars every couple of years. More fun for them and they can ride it at skatepark, BMX park etc.


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## sjroland (Jul 3, 2011)

Pump track is in the middle of a 20 minute kids trail down here in Miami. Long trail with mild climbs and drops. Not a separate bmx specific area..


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Gotcha, well you might try finding shorter cranks on Ebay. They'll be listed as Cotterless or Square Tapered. Might be cheaper and come with a chainring. Spawns 127mm are pretty short, appropriate for a 20". Maybe they'd be fine but hard to say. 135-140 would be a bit nicer. I wouldn't want a 32t chainring with limited gear range of 12-34. 28t would be more ideal but sometimes its challenging to find exactly what you need without dropping the cash. I did this for an old BMX bike and the crank removal tool was around 10-15$ along with cranks (with crappy chainring) that were about 20$. It was all pretty junky stuff but worked great for a BMX bike. You might drop a line to Brett at TrailCraft and see if he has something to send you (square tapered).

Here are the cranks I put on my kid BMX a long time ago. 28T too. Might work, but still pretty short.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kids-Tande...h=item41f24ab044:g:PMAAAOSw1u5bEMEk:rk:8:pf:0

If the bike is fairly new, you could go sideways/crazy a bit and sell it for 400$ (MSRP is 525$ iirc) and pick up a Vitus Nucleus 24" for 480$. It would have quite a few upgrades:

1- legit air fork
2- lighter bike 
3- Appropriate 140mm cranks
4- Shorter chainstays and WB
5- Hydraulic brakes
6- Shorter stem
7- 9sp instead of 8
8- lighter wheels/Maxxis tires
9- Much nicer/safer 67d HTA
10- A little more reach and lower stack (lot shorter HT)

You'd take an 80$ hit but very well may have to spend that on a crankset too. Color could be a problem if she isn't into green tho...


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## bfarr (Apr 12, 2021)

Just got this bike today and already excited for my first DIY project finding a replacement fork for the front. Any forks that folks recommend?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

bfarr said:


> Just got this bike today and already excited for my first DIY project finding a replacement fork for the front. Any forks that folks recommend?


Depends where you are, where or how the bike will be ridden and budget.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

bfarr said:


> Just got this bike today and already excited for my first DIY project finding a replacement fork for the front. Any forks that folks recommend?


We've been quite pleased with the Maniou Markhor 26 that we put on our son's Vitus Kids 24+. As with any fork, you'll want to make sure the dropouts and steerer tube are compatible with your headset/head tube and hub.


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