# Getting Used to E MTB Weight & Other Thoughts



## eman555 (May 31, 2016)

I got a Trek Rail 7 a few months back and haven't done a trail ride on my analog bike since. I feel like my descending has improved and love the ability to squeeze in 2-4 descents in a short ride where I previously would have only had time for 1. 

I realize that in order to maintain any kind of endurance I have to consciously keep the assist low (it's so easy to put the bike in turbo on those days you feel a little too tired to push hard). However it is nice on recovery days to be able to get more riding/descending in. This would never happen on an analog bike. 

Have had several small crashes that weren't much of anything, but then recently had a decent crash. I had a feeling going down hard on a 50lb bike would suck and boy was I right. That's a lot of weight and momentum to hit the dirt with. Somehow the bike hit me in the forehead between my sunglasses and helmet (I think it was the handlebars?) and opened up a small gash above my eyes. Yikes, close call. 

Overall I really like the bike and what it allows me to do now. The one thing that I still haven't gotten used to or enjoy is the weight of this bike. It feels like a DH bike. It feels super planted but I miss being able to easily pop off of features. I was hoping I'd get more used to this feeling and learn to maneuver the bike better, but I can't say I'm there yet. Getting the backwheel off the ground takes a lot more work! It does make my analog bike feel like a featherweight trail bike though. Looking forward to the day when e MTB has 600wh batteries AND are in the low 30lb range. 

How are the rest of you dealing with the weight issue? Anyone else had some decent crashes?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Pros and cons to them. The great planted feel is the weight. It definitely takes a lot more effort to ride them aggressively. I don’t really mind because it helps upper body workout. You might need to adjust your Rebound for a little more pop. 
Crashes? Very rarely but yeah, fell into a ravine 3 weeks ago, head first into a rock, then a few cart wheels. I had to chill and collect myself. Headaches are going away 3 weeks now. Thank god for good helmet technology. My body doesn’t bounce back like it used to!


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Gutch said:


> Crashes? Very rarely but yeah, fell into a ravine 3 weeks ago, head first into a rock, then a few cart wheels. I had to chill and collect myself. Headaches are going away 3 weeks now. Thank god for good helmet technology. My body doesn't bounce back like it used to!


Full Face for me!








(my Christmas present)


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## blueglide (Apr 23, 2020)

Just got a 2021 Santa Cruz Heckler S build mullet and I was a bit worried that it would feel like tank when not in assist mode. (My first emtb, full suspension, carbon bike) It was just the opposite. It felt lighter and more nimble than my Fathom 1. Weighed at the LBS at just under 43 lbs w/o pedals and I haven't felt a huge difference in moving from the Fathom to the Heckler. I love this bike.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Jack7782 said:


> Full Face for me!
> View attachment 1908774
> 
> (my Christmas present)


nice lid!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

blueglide said:


> Just got a 2021 Santa Cruz Heckler S build mullet and I was a bit worried that it would feel like tank when not in assist mode. (My first emtb, full suspension, carbon bike) It was just the opposite. It felt lighter and more nimble than my Fathom 1. Weighed at the LBS at just under 43 lbs w/o pedals and I haven't felt a huge difference in moving from the Fathom to the Heckler. I love this bike.


Thats badass. just weighed my Orbea Rise at 42#. I guess stock for my model is 40. I just cant run weenie tires and brakes when i know its going to see some gnar. Congrats on the new bike!


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## eman555 (May 31, 2016)

Gutch said:


> Pros and cons to them. The great planted feel is the weight. It definitely takes a lot more effort to ride them aggressively. I don't really mind because it helps upper body workout. You might need to adjust your Rebound for a little more pop.


I realize it's my own shortcomings as far as riding the bike more aggressively. Regarding the extra 'pop' what do you recommend, quicker rebound? Spacers? The trails near me are pretty rocky/gnarly, so I'm trying to set the bike up to soak as much of the rough stuff up.


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## eman555 (May 31, 2016)

Jack7782 said:


> Full Face for me!
> View attachment 1908774
> 
> (my Christmas present)


Nice! I started pulling my convertible full face and goggles out too. After this crash I decided it was time to start protecting the face...


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

eman555 said:


> I realize it's my own shortcomings as far as riding the bike more aggressively. Regarding the extra 'pop' what do you recommend, quicker rebound? Spacers? The trails near me are pretty rocky/gnarly, so I'm trying to set the bike up to soak as much of the rough stuff up.


Speed up your rebound or "open" it up a few clicks on both fork and shock. it's always a compromise. if they bike is not settling, perhaps you've gone to far.


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## cunningstunts (Sep 1, 2011)

just starting to pay attention to this forum as i've got an eeb on order. not totally sure what to expect but i've done one demo and asked the guys at the shop at length. all are serious elite riders with plenty of DH racing pedigree from 'back in the day' all would be considered fast and fit modern free riders (if the term was still in use). they love them. the shop owner rarely rides his mtb anymore. his take on the weight is that you do get used to it, and then you use it to your advantage. he said he jumps all the same jumps including the new lines on a couple of reworked old trails that have serious features (i don't ride them) and the bike is awesome for it. i'll take it with a grain of salt given his skills but it's promising. i see some pro riders are now making videos using their eebs. watching Brendan Fairclough and his mates would lead you to believe it's all gravy.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

They’re not Koolaid, rather Radaid! Seriously though, you’re going to be thrilled and find another gear once you get dialed with your new ebike. I’ve been riding them since the first Levo turbo in 2016. A lot of fun.


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## Julie (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm a little late to this party ! I am a very light female rider...115 lbs geared up. I have had my S Works Turbo Levo now for almost a year. I have tried and tried...and I still hate the weight (a not so terrible 46 lbs). I will no longer take it on anything remotely technical or exposed because an unexpected imbalance can instantly slam me to the ground. And crashes are harder than on my pedal bikes..every one has given a hard tweak to one knee or the other...plus sprained fingers, banged helmet, etc. I don't like 29 inch wheels...and I REALLY don't like a super heavy bike with 29 inch wheels. Sure it is fun on fireroad and doubletrack...so is a motorcycle...but I had hoped to use it on the more technical trails near where I live. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine taking it down Zippidy Doo Dah...or even Joe's Ridge in Fruita. It becomes an uncontrollable missile in steep loose terrain for me.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

My Bigfoot is pushing 60 pounds. Riding the same legit blacks (except snow and ice covered) as on my 30 pound Druid, and having an absolute blast getting some speed and tossing it around. My daughter is 5'4" and weighs 120 pounds. She is having the same incredible experience on her Bigfoot. Crashing is a zero concern for either of us, although the studded Wrathchilds have fueled the courage on that front.

Looking forward to trying these bikes out on rest days (with the stock Cake Eaters) and for epic mountain excursions once the snow leaves.


























EDIT: I spoke too soon...


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

I'm dealing with the weight by selling my Shuttle and switching to an Orbea Rise - the 11 pound difference will be very noticeable!


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## Julie (Jul 26, 2005)

Now we’re talkin ! Have you ordered the Rise yet ? What is the wait time now ?


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Julie said:


> Now we're talkin ! Have you ordered the Rise yet ? What is the wait time now ?


I ordered mine literally the day they were announced. LTD with custom colors and a couple parts tweaks. Original ship date was Jan 14th, latest is Feb 1st. AFAIK they're sold out until at least October.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

eman555: I agree with you man. I have been riding since the mid 90s and am yet to find one scenario where a heavy bike is better than a light one, as long as they are built durably enough. My Shuttle is relatively light for an e-bike at 45 lbs. I have ridden some in the low-to-mid 50s and they feel worse and worse. I am used to mine but when I then get on my 29 lbs Yeti 4.5, it feels way nicer (except for the pedaling uphill effort) in every scenario. I'm still faster in downhill technical sections too, and my e-buddies report the same thing. 

Like Rick's approach, I am eyeing the Rise. I'm in no rush but that will be the next step. I still have a blast on all my bikes, including the Shuttle, the Yeti, the gravel, fattie, and road. The Rise will let me do those 8 hours death marches without actually dying though. That I am looking forward to, with an extender or two.


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## 2wls4ever (May 11, 2006)

eman555 said:


> I got a Trek Rail 7 a few months back and haven't done a trail ride on my analog bike since. I feel like my descending has improved and love the ability to squeeze in 2-4 descents in a short ride where I previously would have only had time for 1.
> 
> I realize that in order to maintain any kind of endurance I have to consciously keep the assist low (it's so easy to put the bike in turbo on those days you feel a little too tired to push hard). However it is nice on recovery days to be able to get more riding/descending in. This would never happen on an analog bike.
> 
> ...


Take the positives of the weight and combine them with the altering your mental state of the bikes personality. The number one rule of top 2 wheel champions is adapt to how the machine wants to be ridden versus trying to make the machine ride how you want it to ride or are use to riding. For example, the heavier weight allows for more braking traction. The heavier weight likes to stay on the ground and track the terrains surface. Cornering stability will be better once braking is completed earlier than normal. It will emphasize the need for using the core to control the bike and steering with the hips.


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## j1e (Aug 7, 2020)

I'm sure weight helps, but I think chainstay/rear center length matters a lot. 

I was only able to parking lot test two bikes - a Levo and a Levo SL. Could lift either bike over my head with one hand, but I couldn't manual the Levo to save my life. The long chainstays on the Levo (455mm) made the front end really hard to pull up (although I can't even imagine how well it must climb steep terrain).

The Levo SL on the other hand (437mm chainstays), wheelies, manuals, and jumps similar to my 5010 (426mm chainstays) despite being 14.5 lbs. heavier and a 29er...


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

everyone is different, but it took me one downhill to adjust to the extra weight of the ebike and I was jumping everything I did before with ease. I think what some need to learn to do is how to preload the bike on the lip of the jump and let the suspension do the work for you. Learning to do this is a great jumping skill and allows you to jump higher and farther.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Regarding your preload, i’m using the row antirow technique and its worked better for me than anything ever before. But I feel like I’m not compressing into a jump and wonder. If that is robbing me of potential length. I’m also not getting close to the bars and I know thats a factor too.

my question is, are you compressing by punching it when on the ramp, or is your compression more slow, like a long row motion? You putting your chest on the bars as the front wheel leaves the lip?


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

eman555 said:


> I got a Trek Rail 7 a few months back and haven't done a trail ride on my analog bike since. I feel like my descending has improved and love the ability to squeeze in 2-4 descents in a short ride where I previously would have only had time for 1.
> 
> I realize that in order to maintain any kind of endurance I have to consciously keep the assist low (it's so easy to put the bike in turbo on those days you feel a little too tired to push hard). However it is nice on recovery days to be able to get more riding/descending in. This would never happen on an analog bike.
> 
> ...


being able to pop of jumps/feature and just a simple bunny hop takes more effort. And then there's that manual you used to be able to do.

It does take more effort. Doing weights on the entire body will help.

Also, watch technique vids on what you are trying to do. Getting the technique right is really important on an ebike.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

No offense but a lot of this can be mental. E bikes are heavy, sure, but 20 lbs over regular bike is hardly a huge difference for me. loading the bike in my truck I can tell a difference between my fsr and e bike but once I get going, hardly. I take my ebike down all double black single tracks, huge exposure, rock gardens, drops etc, and never even think about the weight. Planet earth probably notices additional weight but I do not! I do notice my heavy backpack, but My bike no.


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## coachhomer (May 9, 2017)

This is a very informative thread. I am in the market for an ebike and saw the greyp Greyp Bikes - The World's First Fully Connected e-bikes and it looked cool. Anyone have experience with it? Also what are some of the lightest ev mountain bikes?

Thanks!

C

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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

johneracer said:


> No offense but a lot of this can be mental. E bikes are heavy, sure, but 20 lbs over regular bike is hardly a huge difference for me. loading the bike in my truck I can tell a difference between my fsr and e bike but once I get going, hardly. I take my ebike down all double black single tracks, huge exposure, rock gardens, drops etc, and never even think about the weight. Planet earth probably notices additional weight but I do not! I do notice my heavy backpack, but My bike no.


So, I agree with you 100% for single tracks, rock gardens, drops, etc etc etc. No different than a normal bike after accounting for geometry.

But you specifically avoided saying jumps, and here is where I notice a big difference, regardless that equal weight may be carried somewhere else. The fact is for equal technique (good or bad), I have to carry so much more speed going into a jump on an e-bike than my normal bike to clear it. There is a big difference that needs to be compensated for.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

coachhomer said:


> This is a very informative thread. I am in the market for an ebike and saw the greyp Greyp Bikes - The World's First Fully Connected e-bikes and it looked cool. Anyone have experience with it? Also what are some of the lightest ev mountain bikes?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


The light ones that get the most buzz are Levo SL and Orbea Rise. About 10lb less than their more powerful counterparts.


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## Fat&SkinnyCO (Nov 23, 2014)

Observations after 2,800 emtb miles.

Weight:
For me I've found that weight makes a huge difference when riding technical trails especially when climbing (not downhill specific tech trails). On my 22lb hardtail I can easily move it around with body English and hop over obstacles. My 52lb emtb can't move as easily and it can feel like an anchor when going slowly over technical terrain. It took some practice to be able to ride my emtb on the technical trails that I can ride on my hardtail. My lines are different and since I can't move the ebike as easily and my main option is to power over obstacles. Weight is a huge difference although I've adapted. 

Power Management:
Manufacturers may use the same motor but their power management is usually different. This also has a huge impact on technical riding. For example, I test rode a 2020 Levo with the Brose motor. I couldn't ride it safely on technical terrain because the motor remains on for a second or two after pedaling has stopped (this is not programmable in the app. and I also spoke to Specialized tech's about this). This would push me further than expected - not good when there is exposure or when I need to stop and track stand before changing directions. I loved the Brose motor but not Specialized's programming so I ended up buying a BH AtomX emtb and an Atom Big Bud fat tire bike, both with the Brose motor - their programming is much better for technical riding.

Lightweight Options:
99% of my riding is set to 35% out of 100% of power. My motor has 90nm of torque and up to 410% of assist - you'll only reach these numbers when you're in the hightest mode. For me I've found that any setting above 50% is too much. Thus, I'm looking forward to test riding the Orbea Rise and especially the new BH iLynx Race Carbon. Both are lighter weight, lower power (65nm) and have good size batteries. (I ride a lot of miles and the Levo SL's battery even with the extender seems too small for me, plus the torque seems low at 35nm.)

Reference Trail: Dakota Ridge in Colorado, ridden in both directions (except for the short one-way section!)

I still ride my analog mtb and fat tire bikes along with my emtb's and my fitness level hasn't dropped. Now, I'll start a ride even when I don't feel like it - but on the emtb.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

im Not happy with the current trend of ” more power” in e bike development. I find that e bikes have too much power as is. It’s like the motorcycle industry where the race for the top in horsepower dominates sales. my Bosch cx gen 2 is plenty powerful at 75NM and I almost never use turbo mode. The levo SL would be perfect but the small battery is an issue. If they offer levo SL with 600wh battery, I would be all over it. Yes I could buy an extender but the manufacturer should add a bigger battery and Leave me room to add a water bottle etc. the weight saving should come from smaller less powerful motor. 
i Find the additional weight of an ebike helpful in downhill as it adds stability and instils Confidence but I guess it’s all personal preference


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

cunningstunts said:


> his take on the weight is that you do get used to it, and then you use it to your advantage. he said he jumps all the same jumps including the new lines on a couple of reworked old trails that have serious features (i don't ride them) and the bike is awesome for it.


I've been riding E for a few years now (have ridden mtbs most of my life) and toggle between E/non-E about 50/50 these days, and 100% agree w/ this - it took a few rides to get used to the weight, power, momentum and responsiveness of the motor assist, but now I feel so much more confident and safe on my E in pretty much every type of riding and if you put me at the top of any true downhill run (meaning not a lot of pedally ups) and let me pick between my regular trail bike (Ripmo) or E-bike without any assist, I would take the non-powered Ebike every time - and I am a fairly competent jumper and feel way more confident doing jumps on my E

I ride with a lot of other riders of varying skill levels and I'm sure others can relate that there are days where I am just not feeling super strong and confident, and the thing I notice is that in order to harness the potential of a burly Ebike, you need to push it hard, give more input and be more active and aggressive on the bike; IMO much like a very DH oriented trail bike like a Capra / Nomad / Slayer etc., these bikes do not really come alive until you really engage and push them - and I found it does take a bit of conditioning to get your body used to the type of input you need to provide, which is a lot of core

The flipside is that I believe you can quickly lose your cardio / endurance fitness if you rely on a motor for most of your riding - I sometimes hear folks who love their turbo mode say that they are getting stronger cardio on E b/c their rides are longer and they are exhausted at the end - I don't buy it. If I am off my pedal bikes for too long, I notice a fast drop in cardio fitness. I have done many 40-50 mile / 8-10k foot days on E, and sure I'm tired but I can still go home and play tennis afterward. In my peak fitness, I could not play tennis after a ride half that big on my regular bike.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Yeah, no cardio.

my lungs hurt the day after an epic bike ride. Legs jelly too.

on e-, legs are still jelly. Lungs and heart are GTG. Ebike does nothing for the heart.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

Whiterabbitt said:


> Yeah, no cardio.
> 
> my lungs hurt the day after an epic bike ride. Legs jelly too.
> 
> on e-, legs are still jelly. Lungs and heart are GTG. Ebike does nothing for the heart.


Bogus. Ebike does nothing for the heart? What the hell does that even mean? Your heart supplies blood to hungry muscles. It doesn't care if you are riding a regular bike, ebike, unloading a truck, running up stairs etc. if you didn't get a good work out on an ebike that means you didn't push hard. It's as simple as that. There is nothing stopping you from pedaling your heart out on an ebike until you can only fall over. You chose not to and concluded it's the bikes fault! Crazy


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

johneracer said:


> Bogus. Ebike does nothing for the heart? What the hell does that even mean? Your heart supplies blood to hungry muscles. It doesn't care if you are riding a regular bike, ebike, unloading a truck, running up stairs etc. if you didn't get a good work out on an ebike that means you didn't push hard. It's as simple as that. There is nothing stopping you from pedaling your heart out on an ebike until you can only fall over. You chose not to and concluded it's the bikes fault! Crazy


^^Exactly!

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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Chainstay length was a far bigger problem for me than bike weight. Stupidly long CS made the bike handle like a bus, similar to how old school 29ers handled.

Going weight weenie on those old 29ers seemed to improve the ride experience, but at huge cost to my savings. I learned years later it was all due to the **** geo. The geo revolution is caught up now, with people calling bikes "downcountry". Good geo made the bike way easier to handle and therefore ridden harder, no matter what the travel amount.

IMO, getting the CS length dialed according to the WB length is a big enough issue for me to cross off 99% of the available bikes on the market off my list.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

I admit my data is circumstantial, but we can all push hard on an ebike. It’s great for the legs, but the blood just doesn’t get pumping like a regular bike. Ditto on the lungs.

at some point it just doesn’t matter how hard you are pushing.


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## calimander (Feb 25, 2020)

Wear a heart rate monitor and do your comparison 


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

E-bikes are great for cardio, but my power loss is evident, or was, till I started riding my regular bike more again. So next season, I plan on mixing it up more than I was. Last year was my first year on an e-bike so I rode it a lot. I still much prefer the downhills on my lighter bike, so there is some motivation for the Yeti, in addition to rides with friends.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

Whiterabbitt said:


> I admit my data is circumstantial, but we can all push hard on an ebike. It's great for the legs, but the blood just doesn't get pumping like a regular bike. Ditto on the lungs.
> 
> at some point it just doesn't matter how hard you are pushing.


Human beings like to take the easy way out, I get that. Your body has no clue what kind of bike you are spinning, it works as hard as you push it. There is no reason why you couldnt tear your legs off on climbs, on an ebike, other than the fact that you don't want to. Let's stop this nonsensical arguments once and for all.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

Flyer said:


> E-bikes are great for cardio, but my power loss is evident, or was, till I started riding my regular bike more again. So next season, I plan on mixing it up more than I was. Last year was my first year on an e-bike so I rode it a lot. I still much prefer the downhills on my lighter bike, so there is some motivation for the Yeti, in addition to rides with friends.


I think ebike requires self control for sure. I climb on eco only and often gravel bikes go by me uphill. I'm caring full gear, full helmet and 20lbs in my backpack so that's ok, but there is definitely a little voice in your head going "turn it up". I never do. My cardio has improved drastically but I ride a lot more since ebike is more fun, for me at least. I went from 1000 miles/year to 3000/year on my ebike. I want to earn the downhill part so staying in eco allows me to maintain the cardio. Other than speed, me being quicker, there is no difference in workout quality provided you don't listen to that voice in your head and bump the power up. On a side note, riding in eco all the time, I'm shocked how much power other modes provide.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

No real e-bike experience here, but my legs alone already are going as fast as my skill level can carry me on most of my trails.
The point being that if I were using an e-bike I would not be pedaling nearly as hard to avoid flying off the trails and therefore would get much less of a cardio workout.

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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> No real e-bike experience here, but my legs alone already are going as fast as my skill level can carry me on most of my trails.
> The point being that if I were using an e-bike I would not be pedaling nearly as hard to avoid flying off the trails and therefore would get much less of a cardio workout.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


 Should have just ended your comment at "no real ebike experience here" then you would realize you have no point. You climb everywhere at max possible speed and anything faster and you crash. Sure got it.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I know that many people essentially climb dirt roads or just easy open trails.
Just pointing out that's not the case in many locations.

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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

johneracer said:


> Human beings like to take the easy way out, I get that. Your body has no clue what kind of bike you are spinning, it works as hard as you push it. There is no reason why you couldnt tear your legs off on climbs, on an ebike, other than the fact that you don't want to. Let's stop this nonsensical arguments once and for all.


...because that would punch a hole right through the argument that riding an eMtB make you just as fit as riding a regular MtB.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Lol, who's going to win at being the best exerciser!


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

johneracer said:


> Bogus. Ebike does nothing for the heart? What the hell does that even mean? Your heart supplies blood to hungry muscles. It doesn't care if you are riding a regular bike, ebike, unloading a truck, running up stairs etc. if you didn't get a good work out on an ebike that means you didn't push hard. It's as simple as that. There is nothing stopping you from pedaling your heart out on an ebike until you can only fall over. You chose not to and concluded it's the bikes fault! Crazy


Id go even further and say this, I think it's better/safer heart workout especially for people mid 40's and over. Its actually not great idea to be redlining your heart all the time as we age.. lots of high level mtbrs end up with heart issues.. obviously so many variables/genetics this is not a definitive statement however, lower heart rate level sustained workouts are very beneficial.. this is why walking is such a great exercise.

Its also different in that it adds a lot more upper body workout vs mtb.. I've definitely noticed that after a year purely on an ebike.

personally, with family obligations and being 46 I was getting way too beat up from mtb after bigger rides.. now I can ride 2x as much and when I ride I ride x2 the downhill at least.. its been total game changer for shear fun factor.

I feel like in the long run this more sustained lower level cardio is better for my health.. as stated not a one size fits all thing.. I know 65 year olds that still crush huge mtb rides.. guess have shitty genetics!..lol


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