# Hub choice?



## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Having some 650B wheels built up soon. LBS is suggesting using XT hubs and spacers. Buddy says to go with DT. Wallet says no to DT.

What's your favorite wallet friendly SS hub?


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

Hope, or Stan's 3.30SS (if you want a pre-built wheelset) would be my choices...


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks, pretty much a newb around here. Lot more lurking than posting.

AFTER posting my question there was a similar thread at the bottom with a Hope vs. King question. Hope seems to be coming thumbs up more than others.


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## fleetfox (May 15, 2010)

Industry Nine classics.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Hope are killer for ss.


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## jddjirikian (Aug 25, 2006)

Hope or King for color and bling. Surly for your wallet's benefit.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Fixie Inc. Kick-Flip has served me well, got two of those. I can't find a fault with it and it's really affordable. I got mine at Only-Highend, Germany.

Brown: FIXIE Inc. - Kickflip brown - ONLY HIGHEND
Black: FIXIE Inc. - Kickflip black 32H - ONLY HIGHEND


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## Bike Whisperer (Aug 7, 2012)

The Hope SS Trails hub is nicer than their multi-speed hub IMO...steel freehub body and twice the engagement points.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I've had good luck with my Hope Pro2 SS/Trials hubs. (with the narrow freehub and spacers). Some have managed to break a pawl or spring, so I have a spare set that I haven't needed yet. On mine, the bolts are not the greatest, but I haven't had real problems with them. I've seen pics of cracked hubs, too. Apparently, all have been warrantied.

XT hubs can be quite good but their bearing arrangement requires relatively frequent maintenance and adjustment.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks all! Hope is sounding real good to me.


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## 4SEVEN3 (Aug 12, 2007)

I have Surly on my SS with a freewheel in the back....front hub was a little loose but no issues after adjustment, and this was before I even rode it once.

I have XT on my geared bike and not a single issue. I made sure the bearings were OK before I rode them for the first time. Rock solid so far, this will be summer season #2 on them. Everyone seems to think your spending every Saturday adjusting Shimano hubs before/after rides....this just isnt the case, If you adjust them properly you should have no issues....and adjusting them properly takes some finesse but its not hard. XT or SLX should be good and easy on your finances. YMMV. Happy wheel building!


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

Go Hope SS hub, I have been rocking one on my SS for years and it has been flawless, just built a 29er SS up and got another Hope SS rear hub, this was actually one of the newer NRB ones.

Have a look on the various forums for a second hand one or wheelset with one, I got a fantastic set of Hopes on some No Tubes rims for less than half the cost of having hem built new


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

perttime said:


> I've had good luck with my Hope Pro2 SS/Trials hubs. (with the narrow freehub and spacers). Some have managed to break a pawl or spring, so I have a spare set that I haven't needed yet. On mine, the bolts are not the greatest, but I haven't had real problems with them. I've seen pics of cracked hubs, too. Apparently, all have been warrantied.
> 
> XT hubs can be quite good but their bearing arrangement requires relatively frequent maintenance and adjustment.


Do you have an older model? I ask since many had issue with the bolts. The bolts on all of mine are huge, strong beasts. The head is deep allowing for great purchase on the wench. The bolts are anything but soft allowing many tighten/loosen cycles without fear of rounding out the hex. They also tighten with a satisfying hard stop. It never feels as if the axle or bolts would strip.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

All of the hubs listed here are a good choice. Have seen a few issues with hope hubs such as the hub body cracking and bolt issues but those are few and far between. Would not base my decision off of that for a hub as it was a few years back and guy who was riding those was very hard on components. 

I've been rolling on Industry Nine and King hubs with out any issues. For a single speed hub key features in my mind would be durability, quick engagement and bolt on option even for vertical drop outs. After that see what your budget affords.


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

The old bolts where button head with a shallow allen socket, the were also made of Edam cheese, the bolts on the later NRB version are socket head with a deep allen key socket and made of tougher material.

Parts are cheap and they easy to work on

I had some Chris King hubs which were nice but so overpriced IMHO they offered nothing over Hopes despite maybe some bragging rights, you can build some nice wheels for the price of the Chris King Hubs

Here are the old bolts (I converted my first SS hub to QR and uses a chain tug) next to the bolts on my newer NRB SS Hope hub


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## ahelmus (Jun 2, 2006)

I have not owned Hopes, but have ridden with other who have them. If you don't mind riding through the woods sounding like an industrial plant then go ahead. Look up other threads about the sound of the hubs if relative silence is important to you. I have been riding the same WTB Single Duty hub for 6 years without maintenance and it is quiet, bombproof, and relatively light. I have a spare ready for when it fails but have not needed it. Engagement is slow but unless you are riding tech trails that is, in my opinion, irrelevant. The WTBs are hard to find but I believe that American Classics are virtually the same. It is a personal preference of mine, but I absolutely hate the sound of loud hubs and I think instant engagement is overrated for the majority of SS riding. My 2 cents.


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## tuvok (Jun 22, 2008)

Have not used them, but Paul's Word hub seems to be reasonably priced. Anyone know if they are any good?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

tuvok said:


> Have not used them, but Paul's Word hub seems to be reasonably priced. Anyone know if they are any good?


Yes, the WORD hub is good. Pair it with a White Ind freewheel.


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## Flat Ark (Oct 14, 2006)

The pawls in the Stan's SS hub look identical to the engagement set up on my Bonty RXL multi-speed hub. Same red anodizing as well. Same hub???


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

thickfog said:


> Do you have an older model? I ask since many had issue with the bolts.


Mine are not the latest. I have ... a few ... years on two hubs. I have vertical dropouts, so don't need to go crazy tightening them.

Hopes are pretty loud, as mentioned. Other's don't need to see me to know where I am - except if I'm pedaling.


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## ejw1 (Sep 19, 2008)

Hope SS all the way - 3 years of abuse and no issues. You wont be dissapointed.


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

perttime said:


> Mine are not the latest. I have ... a few ... years on two hubs. I have vertical dropouts, so don't need to go crazy tightening them.
> 
> Hopes are pretty loud, as mentioned. Other's don't need to see me to know where I am - except if I'm pedaling.


If the noise is an issue pull off the freehub and dump tons of grease in their, do this once a month and they will run almost silently.

I am used to riding Mountain Unicycles which any their nature are fixed gear so I don't tend to coast very often so I like it as it is like a lazy alarm to point out when I am not pushing hard enough, also it is an excellent "bell" when coming up on walkers as you tend to naturally slow down and coast and it gives them some warning


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## ppfeifer (Feb 14, 2009)

I sold my Hope SSs wheels because they were too loud, the bolts (old version) stripped easily, and they came loose. Overall, I was disappointed with them. One good thing about Hope hubs is that they hold their value and I got a good amount for the re-sale. 

On the other hand, Shimano XT 785 ($75) hubs have been flawless. The centerlock hubs weight 330 grams and have 36 POE. Of course the wheels will be dished, but I don't really buy into the dish-less argument.

Save the cash and buy Shimanos. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

roybatty666 said:


> If the noise is an issue pull off the freehub and dump tons of grease in their, do this once a month and they will run almost silently....
> ... it is an excellent "bell" when coming up on walkers


I use it as a "bell" too.
Hope freehub is really easy to pull off, which can encourage us lazy bike maintainers to keep a closer eye on the condition of the hub.


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## HOV (Apr 16, 2012)

Another vote for Hope here. I've run XT and Hope 2 SS/Trials and there's no comparison.

A nice thing about Hope is the front converts between 9mm and 15mm TA in about 10s. 

Yes, it sounds like a bucket of angry bees but that actually comes in handy for warning other riders, scaring away animals, and adding another dimension to the bling (audio).

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## bbm1 (Apr 5, 2013)

it very nice


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Whatever you do, don't get the new Industry 9 torch hubs. You'll love them so much and be so spoiled on the engagement that you'll hate everything else, and you'll end up spending your children's college money buying multiple sets of them.

Or, get them anyway because they're awesome.


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## cms08753 (Oct 12, 2010)

Hope Pro2 SS FTW!!! 

take it one step further and lace them up to arch ex's


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

jddjirikian said:


> Hope or King for color and bling. Surly for your wallet's benefit.


Plus 1 On This

Hope

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4841977360517&l=4819998684090111077

King


Surly Hubs


SAY NO TO THE XT HUBS.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Think I've decided on the Hope Pro 2 SS with Velocity Blunt 650B hoops.


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## 4SEVEN3 (Aug 12, 2007)

Normbilt said:


> Plus 1 On This
> 
> SAY NO TO THE XT HUBS.


why?


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Normbilt said:


> Surly Hubs


What frame is this Normbilt? I'm thinking of building a 650b SS specific and this looks like what I'm after.

Love the C-Dale too :thumbsup:


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## jekyll2003 (Jan 30, 2010)

HOV said:


> Yes, it sounds like a bucket of angry bees but that actually comes in handy for warning other riders, scaring away animals, and adding another dimension to the bling (audio).
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


I love my Hope Pro2 SS hubs. I don't get why all these people think the sound is such an issue. For me the sound was an attraction. There is nothing like hearing that rythmic buzz as you weave down a flowy singletrack.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

The Hopes and Kings do seem mighty nice, but I think they are overpriced. Definitely bike bling, if you can afford them though I do harbor some jealousy. I have some Surly new hubs, which took some time to set right I admit, and have had zero problems since building that wheelset. Mighty nice for the pocket book. I have XTs on my geared rides, maybe not quite the same, and it can take a little time with the cup and cone adjustment, but no problems there either. I don't know why I keep hearing ops and reading posts telling others to pass and spend your money... you won't regret it. If biking was my one hobby and I didn't have other financial responsibilities I probably would bling the heck out of my CF 953 stainless etc... anyway, don't hate on my Surly's or XTs. Also, don't be annoyed if I pass you on my simple drabby weighty bland colored 2-wheeled machine. 
Also, I do agree I like that card in the spoke sound. I had a formula hub that was quite loud, hub wasn't the best, but that sound brought back memories.


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## fordtraitor19 (Jul 30, 2011)

I had a Hope SS/Trials hub and it was excellent! Lots of engagement with really solid bolts and is easy to service. I would stay away from XT unless you are on top of your servicing. Once the inner part of the hub is pitted you have to throw it away.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

dbhammercycle said:


> The Hopes and Kings do seem mighty nice, but I think they are overpriced. Definitely bike bling, if you can afford them though I do harbor some jealousy. I have some Surly new hubs, which took some time to set right I admit, and have had zero problems since building that wheelset. Mighty nice for the pocket book. I have XTs on my geared rides, maybe not quite the same, and it can take a little time with the cup and cone adjustment, but no problems there either. I don't know why I keep hearing ops and reading posts telling others to pass and spend your money... you won't regret it. If biking was my one hobby and I didn't have other financial responsibilities I probably would bling the heck out of my CF 953 stainless etc... anyway, don't hate on my Surly's or XTs. Also, don't be annoyed if I pass you on my simple drabby weighty bland colored 2-wheeled machine.
> Also, I do agree I like that card in the spoke sound. I had a formula hub that was quite loud, hub wasn't the best, but that sound brought back memories.


How are Hope overpriced? I think they're probably the best bang for your buck out there for quality, endurance and style. I have the SS version I built about a year ago, bought and laced brand new with Crests and 1.5/2.0 DB Revolutions and I'd bet they're just as capable as the King's I've had in the past at more than half the cost and weight-wise probably rival quite a few decent roadie sets. I've never had the slightest issue with breakage or tension and I run rigid and put a lot of tough miles on them.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

fryed_1 said:


> How are Hope overpriced? I think they're probably the best bang for your buck out there for quality, endurance and style.


It is just my opinion, and I did say that I would be jealous of your Hopes. I am just saying, IMHO, that you can get some solid hubs for less money but that doesn't mean I think the Hopes are worthless. It is your opinion that they are the best bang for the buck, based on your criteria of what is necessary to the enjoyment of your ride. It is simply mine that I can do quite nicely with my less expensive hubs and buy more beer. That's it. I won't scoff at you, I'll probably gawk and awe and ask you all about them, but I probably won't spend the extra money as my criteria does not deem it necessary to spend the extra dough. Sorry to upset you, there's no need to defend yourself. They are less expensive than Kings, but they are more expensive than the Surlys or XTs. Happy rolling!


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

No defending or misunderstanding. I'm not upset or anything and I've had both Surly and XT's in the past. Matter of fact my old FR bike, a Cove G-Spot, rocked the XT's on some MTX 33's and aside from detailed internal cleaning from muddy lift days, never failed me.

I did quite a bit of research before building these wheels however and while the King's, Hadley's and i9's out there were best thing short of an all-girl orgy, I didn't want to break the bank to save a couple ounces or get that extra 18 POE points. Everything I read said that for price vs performance, Hope wouldn't fail you and provided the best option in a great looking package.

Agreed that they weren't "needed", but the PvP compared to the other ones I've looked at is what made my decision. The Formula/Redlines I had before were durable, cheap and never gave me a problem either. If I was building something on the cheap I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.. but if I wanted something with a little more performance, less weight and yes... better looking... I would definitely go Hope over any of the bigger costing brands any day.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

fryed_1 said:


> I did quite a bit of research before building these wheels however and while the King's, Hadley's and i9's out there were best thing short of an all-girl orgy


LOL, those girls may break the bank but they're probably be worth it...and I do concede that the Hopes are better looking than my Surlys or XTs, weigh less and probably perform better in bed. 
I just don't like what seems to be the consensus that the idea of XTs and spacers just doesn't cut it. It's not a bad idea if the OP is unsure of the wheelsize and SS. They are then more marketable for resale having not cost as much with more versatility as a geared set as well. Anyway, the OP has made his decision and has gone with Hopes. May he ride them into the sunset and beyond....


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## gmmeyerIII (May 8, 2012)

well i have the White Industries Disc Eno with the W.I. free wheel. Combined cheaper than the hope hubs and work flawlessly. I love White Industries products. DEsigned really well.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

fryed_1 said:


> How are Hope overpriced? I think they're probably the best bang for your buck out there for quality, endurance and style.


My approach for Hopes has been to order (semi) custom wheels, which can be done for less than the list price of the components.
I haven't been checking prices recently but Hope Pro 2 Evo Disc Rear Wheel | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com still looks pretty OK to me.


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## fryed_1 (Nov 8, 2010)

perttime said:


> My approach for Hopes has been to order (semi) custom wheels, which can be done for less than the list price of the components.
> I haven't been checking prices recently but Hope Pro 2 Evo Disc Rear Wheel | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com still looks pretty OK to me.


*shrug* I build my own.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Ok, ok... Hopes are higher priced, not over priced.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

I guess I'm OP...reckon that doesn't mean Sheriff Taylor's son (j/k).

The Hopes kinda hit the mid point price wise between the ultra bling stuff and XT. My current ride has a '94 spacered LX hub, I've had zero problems with it. (other than horsepower). The build I'm on though...I wanted to be like the Jeffersons and start "Movin' on up".

Geez...two TV references in one post. Gotta go get back on the bike.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm curious about the Paul Word hubs as well. They can be had for $100 each on Amazon and are weight weenie light at 200g for the rear and 128 for the front. If one isn't racing, and doesn't need instant engagement, what would be the drawback to using the Paul Words over the Hopes? I know Paul has a reputation for quality and durability in their brakes. It surprises me that given the big dollar savings and the meaningful weight savings, the Paul SS hub isn't mentioned more on this forum?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

TooSteep said:


> I'm curious about the Paul Word hubs as well. They can be had for $100 each on Amazon and are weight weenie light at 200g for the rear and 128 for the front. If one isn't racing, and doesn't need instant engagement, what would be the drawback to using the Paul Words over the Hopes? I know Paul has a reputation for quality and durability in their brakes. It surprises me that given the big dollar savings and the meaningful weight savings, the Paul SS hub isn't mentioned more on this forum?


The Paul hub uses a freewheel. It is not a freehub/cassette.

If you change your gearing frequently freewheels are a PITA compared to cassette hubs.

The White Ind. freewheels are the only ones worth having. Durable and reliable in all conditions and good engagement. Weight is 175-200g and cost ~$90 the last time I checked several years ago.


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

Hope Pro2, I9, or Surly, SS specific!


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## ppfeifer (Feb 14, 2009)

TWANG! POP! BOOM! That was the sound my 5 month old XT hub made yesterday as it died a horrible death. I no longer have faith in XT rear hubs. That's too bad because I really thought that XTs were legit.


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## blackgriffen_1 (May 18, 2010)

My vote for cost/durability goes to a solid freewheel-threaded hub and a White Industries Eno freewheel.

Small Wallet? --> Surly Ultra New Disc









Bigger Wallet? --> Paul Word Disc

Either way, you get a bombproof setup that will go for thousands of miles. YMMV, but I never had issues dirt jumping my Surly Ultra New Disc, and a Paul Word would worry me even less.


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## ppfeifer (Feb 14, 2009)

Proof that my hub died.


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## rideorange525 (Apr 1, 2013)

My Hope after 5 or 6 rides on my fully.

They sent me a brand new one from the UK only took 3 weeks! The other Hope hub I have has not had this issue, and I still bought another for my SS this week. If another cracks I'll have them warranty for the steel body...


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

Hadley

Doesn't get the pub but a great product


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## rideorange525 (Apr 1, 2013)

I bought the Hope because, they are relatively affordable, had the best reviews for riding in the rain/mud w/o needing rebuilding (better sealed), and easy to convert to almost all wheels "standards". now I have 3 and the parts are all interchangeable. 

Extra bonus, you don't need a bell when coming up on people on the trail, simply coast for a few feet!


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

MMS said:


> Thanks all! Hope is sounding real good to me.


You can usually find a rear on fleabay or craigslist or even these forums classifieds to satisfy your budget. I have a set of non SS on my cross/road bike which have not needed any service for the past two years to which I have done quite a few gravel grinders in pouring rain along with some winters.


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

I have had generally good performance with my PAUL WORD setup. One thing to note is that with the WORD hub running 142x12 is not an option. 

For most people just about any hub will do fine. If you ride a lot and/or own the hub for a very long time you will see wear but in truth the XT has a pretty good value prop even if you simply replace the hubs when they die.

I have also had mixed results with XT hubs. On one set I broke the freewheel in something like 2k miles. The other set has been good for 3k miles. The PAUL WORD / WI Freewheel is still good and has around 5k miles.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Old thread but all the hubs mentioned are still available. My choice is True Precision Poacher. Literally silent, literally instant engagement, I go with 1 overhaul a year and unlike most pawl based designs (except those you can flush in solvent and drip oil in) I find it a pleasure to work on. A downside is bearings are not shielded vs water with extra seals. Other possible downside is weight but for these hubs it means reliability. Third is price (on par with King which, for me, makes King lose most of their appeal) but the benefits outweigh it if you're into silence and low maintenance. 


If I had the nerve to stand the clicking (or needed to complete a build in a hurry) I'd go the route outlined by blackgriffen_1. Used to roll on Hope and Hope SS a lot, was super glad to get rid of the noise and gain easier maintenance (if you obsess over cleaning the internals, that is) with the Poacher.


Wheelbuilding wise, the even dish argument for a stronger wheel isn't necessarily valid, but larger dish base offered by SS specific hubs definitely is.


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## BigDriveLittleWedge (Jan 2, 2014)

I recommend a Paul W.O.R.D. hub combined with a White Industries trials freewheel if you're set on a gear ratio.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll second that vote for Paul WORD hubs and WI freewheels. Especially the Trials freewheels. I have them on two bikes. Reasonable cost, totally serviceable and rebuildable. Not that you'll need to, they are both very durable.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

The combination of a threaded hub and BMX freewheel is an obsolete design: significantly heavier and more expensive than a freehub + cog of similar quality. WI freewheel teeth wear out just like cogs do, but cost 50 USD to replace.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Yes, Saul. You have said it before, but what if I want to be obselete? Certainly there will be cog wear, but it'll take an awful long time for the SS to wear it out. You've also stated other reasons to ditch the freewheel, like the ease of switching between cogs for different terrain for instance, which I do think has truth to it. There are improvements to the freehub design, but you can wear out or crack a freehub too and that ain't cheap either, especially for the bling hubs being talked about in this thread. Anyway, if it works, it's not obsolete. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

It is a modular design with all the details of coasting mechanism implementation factored out of the hub, reducing hub complexity, along with its set of failure modes, to a level comparable to a front hub. This alone can't be bad already.

Well there's the issue with non-adjustable chainline on freewheel hubs but in the case of WORD, its 51.5 mm chainline vs 50 mm on most external BB cranksets is an easy fix with a BB spacer.

In defense of integrated freehubs, there's a very unlikely scenario where a lot of spokes breaks in the wheel so the leverage needed for unscrewing the freewheel is lost.

And I saw all WI freewheel spares being available, so if you wear out the cogs you only need to replace the outer shell.


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## worrptangl (Jun 23, 2009)

I have Paul FHUB and Word w/ Eno freewheel and it is awesome! So smooth spins forever.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Dbhammercycle, I use "obsolete" in its literal meaning, not just a negative word to throw around. "Of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology>".

If you want it that way, I have no beef with that. Some of my own bikes have obsolete features as well and in some cases I prefer them.

For anyone else reading the thread it might be of interest that current freehubs are lighter, less expensive (goes for initial purchase as well as maintenance cost in the long run) and more adjustable.

Despite this, I wouldn't hesitate riding the heck out of a bike with Paul hubs and a WI freewheel. They are fine parts and any of the technical differences don't really matter when you are enjoying the ride.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Hmm. Current freehubs often have to resort to exotic bearings in the freehub body because there's not enough space to fit both large diameter aluminum axle and typical radial ball bearings and have them run long enough. Make axle smaller diameter and risk breaking it where it meets the right hub shell bearing (unless it's really thick walled). Well this is how we pay for being able to use smaller cogs and easily adjustable chainline so it's kind of a fair deal.

Furthermore, most freehub designs have toothed ring attached to hub shell. A missed maintenance may end up in damage to the ring which is usually only sold installed in a new hub shell so all of a sudden we're looking at a purchase of exotic part (+ a new set of pawls and springs) and a complete wheel rebuild. With a modular design such as the freewheel hub, we can throw on a cheap freewheel in a pinch.


I do like the design of WTB/AmClassic Single Duty hub though. Simple, inexpensive, and even though it's the clicky type it couldn't be loud even if it wanted to. And it looks like it can't damage hub shell once the engagement mechanism fails from wear. Got a happy customer running one on his Inbred, so far so good.


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