# Recommend an E-Bike to me, a few qualifiers.



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

I’ll preface this by saying I know next to nothing about E-Bike specific technologies (drive motors, battery sizes, etc) so I really don’t have a bias about that. In fact, the only bias I do have is if Giant made an E-Bike that met my qualifiers, I’d buy that without shopping around, but they don’t, and I don’t even know what else is out there, so I’m asking the community here.

I want this for a couple of things - when I’m working on a trail project, sometimes it’s a long way in and out, often carrying a heavy pack. Sometimes we have to session things as we build them, which can mean either riding back up stuff that was really meant to be ridden down, or pushing a bike back up the trail. Also, ultimately, I may just ride the bike for fun sometimes.

What I’m looking for: 29 inch wheels. Lots of travel (140+ on both ends). Lots of battery life. Hopefully a good warranty.

What you got? Thanks for the help.


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## etacata (Mar 3, 2010)

Cotharyus said:


> I'll preface this by saying I know next to nothing about E-Bike specific technologies (drive motors, battery sizes, etc) so I really don't have a bias about that. In fact, the only bias I do have is if Giant made an E-Bike that met my qualifiers, I'd buy that without shopping around, but they don't, and I don't even know what else is out there, so I'm asking the community here.
> 
> I want this for a couple of things - when I'm working on a trail project, sometimes it's a long way in and out, often carrying a heavy pack. Sometimes we have to session things as we build them, which can mean either riding back up stuff that was really meant to be ridden down, or pushing a bike back up the trail. Also, ultimately, I may just ride the bike for fun sometimes.
> 
> ...


I'd look at the Commencal meta power 29. I've owned 2 of there ebike and recomend them. price, quality, made to rip dh, and great customer service.


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## rwdbkr (Jan 24, 2008)

Is this the Giant you refer to that doesn`t exist?

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/trance-eplus-3-pro

Also this for 29er

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/stance-eplus-1-pro-29


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Haibike USA has the Sduro Full Nine with a nice spec package and Yamaha drive system. 500 wh battery placed internally. Giant uses Yamaha edrives specced to their needs, however I believe their MTB drive motors feature a version of the PW-X drive while this Haibike has the slightly less powerful PW-ST motor. Link: https://www.haibikeusa.com/sduro-fullnine-4-0-4598.html

I have a Haibike Full FatSix, 2016 model year, coming up on 10 thousand miles on the Yamaha PW drive system and absolutely no issues at all with the drive motor, display, wiring or battery.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

My Specialized Levo has a walk assist feature, really comes in handy, & for your trailwork probably would benefit you as well. Not many ebikes come with this, something to consider.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I'd also recommend the Specialized Levo. I bought my wife a first generation version in 2016. And last week, I bought myself a leftover 2019 Specialized Levo Expert. It's a carbon framed bike with an MSRP of $8300. At that price it was "ok" but about two weeks ago, Specialized priced all the left over 2019 Levo Experts at $5332. The leftover carbon "comp" modes were priced under $4750. I got mine at Wheel World in Culver City, CA.

Below is a link where you can see the info on each bike:

https://www.wheelworld.com

If your local shops have any in stock, they should have them at that price. At that price, the Levo Expert model is was a very good deal. As noted above, it has a "hike" feature. It's a 29er with 150mm of travel front and back. The 700wh battery gives the most range of any MTB out there (many competitor bikes' batteries are in the 500-550wh range). And to top it off, at around under 47 pounds, its one of the lightest out there, especially when your talking at $5332. Indeed, if you look at this review of 25 emtbs, Specialized Levo Expert would have landed as 4th lightest by a good margin (the second lightest being the more expensive Specialized S-works Levo). And the lightest bike on the list has a battery half the size of the Specialized versions.

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/best-emtb-group-test-review/

Specialized has invested a bit to make sure they're at the forefront of ebike technology. Their motor is smooth and natural feeling. The bike is also ridable with no power or at high speed, as the motor disengages from the crank when its off as well as when it gets to over 20mph The app is also really useful to modify the output and delivery characteristics of the motor, as well as to view some of the diagnostics on the bike. The app also has a feature to manage your output on really long rides or rides with a ton of climbing to make sure you can make it from point to point, eliminating range anxiety.

Also, note that the 2020 version of the Levo Expert is also currently on sale right now, just not as cheap (around $7450 after rebates). The main difference between the 19' and 20' is: 1. color, and 2. a switch from Rockshox Pike RC/Debonair to the Fox 36 Performance/GRIP fork with a switch from Rockshox to Fox shocks. There was also a change in saddle spec and rear tire.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Good thread.

If buying new I'd only consider the 2020 Mondraker Crafty, and I'd likely buy the lowest end version of it and upgrade as desired. 

Simply put it has the best weight/ power ratio of an ebike for any given top tube length by a fair bit, it uses the class leading Bosch Gen 4 motor, geo is ideal/ trail-worthy/ modern, and it looks really good. I also am a Mondraker fan boy but I'm a fan because I happen to believe that they are better bikes.

The only thing I don't like is the Bosch monitor, it's hoaky and poorly integrated.

Price is pretty low down on my priority list for MTBs, not because I'm wealthy, but just because I derive so much enjoyment from the sport that any additional costs for equipment, ends up being meaningless in the long run.

If I was cost conscious, I'd buy a used major brand of e-bike. Either a Giant or a Spesh as parts will be available for a long time. Geo and motor tech would be lacking however and that's just part of the deal of saving money.

In my situation, in TX where on public lands and trails e-bikes are just considered motorcycles and are not legal to ride, I'd add the Revel Propulsion kit to my current bike for special occasions such as private trails & bike trips.

Good luck!


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## sooslow (Dec 14, 2017)

kneecap said:


> My Specialized Levo has a walk assist feature, really comes in handy, & for your trailwork probably would benefit you as well. Not many ebikes come with this, something to consider.


I have a 2020 Levo Comp which comes with the 700W battery. Yesterday I did a 23 mile ride with 5K of climbing and still had 53% of battery life in the tank. Specialized allows the Brose motor to tweak it to YOUR liking via the Mission Control App and it has really expanded the range on my bike.


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## rkwfxd (Jan 8, 2019)

Seems like a Giant Reign E would fit your bill.

I have a Giant Trance E+1 and love it.


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## tuenni (Sep 11, 2014)

kneecap said:


> My Specialized Levo has a walk assist feature, really comes in handy, & for your trailwork probably would benefit you as well. Not many ebikes come with this, something to consider.


That's not true, every Shimano Steps 8000 has the walk assist. 
Got a YT Decoy 29 pro, rad bike but not the biggest battery


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

You obviously didn't read my entire post, or your reading comprehension is not very good. I have qualifiers. None of Giants e-bikes meet them. But thanks for trying.



rwdbkr said:


> Is this the Giant you refer to that doesn`t exist?
> 
> https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/trance-eplus-3-pro
> 
> ...


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

etacata said:


> I'd look at the Commencal meta power 29. I've owned 2 of there ebike and recomend them. price, quality, made to rip dh, and great customer service.


I'll see if I can find a Commencal dealer anywhere near me. That looks pretty good.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you! That's a very thorough write up. I have a friend that has a Turbo Levo and he loves his. I know I've got a Spec dealer somewhere near me, I just have to remember who they are and where they are. I'll put out some feelers about the leftover 2019's.



AGarcia said:


> I'd also recommend the Specialized Levo. I bought my wife a first generation version in 2016. And last week, I bought myself a leftover 2019 Specialized Levo Expert. It's a carbon framed bike with an MSRP of $8300. At that price it was "ok" but about two weeks ago, Specialized priced all the left over 2019 Levo Experts at $5332. The leftover carbon "comp" modes were priced under $4750. I got mine at Wheel World in Culver City, CA.
> 
> Below is a link where you can see the info on each bike:
> 
> ...


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Not 29" wheels.



rkwfxd said:


> Seems like a Giant Reign E would fit your bill.
> 
> I have a Giant Trance E+1 and love it.


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## caldog (Apr 11, 2011)

Cotharyus said:


> Thank you! That's a very thorough write up. I have a friend that has a Turbo Levo and he loves his. I know I've got a Spec dealer somewhere near me, I just have to remember who they are and where they are. I'll put out some feelers about the leftover 2019's.


Nobody has mentioned the failure issues with the Specialized/Brose motor on the Levo. I know multiple people that have had the motor replaced multiple times. It's also well documented on the emtb forums of motors going out for many other people. Yes they replace it under warranty, but there is downtime and what happens after warranty? So far they have not found a way to resolve this problem.

Something you should be aware of and do your own research.

Fyi, I have a Norco Range VLT (big travel 27.5), Shimano motor and 630Wh battery with 360Wh range extending battery available that mounts where the water bottle is. If you are interested in a 29er, they have the new Sight VLT that is rad.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I have heard of some failures but I have also seen several Broses woth way pasy 4,000 miles


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

tuenni said:


> That's not true, every Shimano Steps 8000 has the walk assist.
> Got a YT Decoy 29 pro, rad bike but not the biggest battery


A lot of people do not realize their Shimano motor has walk assist because there is no extra button for it.

The bike must be stopped. You hold the "reduce power" button for a second to engage walk mode, then release it and press it again to get the cranks to turn. One thing that is a major PIA about it is that if you bump the pedals while in walk mode, it shuts off.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Cotharyus said:


> and I don't even know what else is out there, so I'm asking the community here.


There is a ton available out there to choose from. If your stuck on buying over priced ebikes from the majors that are proprietary then thats ok.

ebikes are becoming more and more popular each year. Years ago it was rare to see ebikes ridden anywhere, now I see them everyday.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums
https://www.ebikes.ca
https://www.lunacycle.com
https://www.em3ev.com

Lots of kits out there to put on your current bicycle. The BBSHD mid drive is a good choice for a mid drive, which seems like you need for trail riding if its hilly or has steep hills. Otherwise if you want regeneration power back into the battery, which can help 5-25% then direct drive hub motor is good, Leafmotor and Leafbike are great products, with great efficiency in some of their hub motors. The the geared motors would be good too like the MAC motor at em3ev.

A couple ways to get into ebiking.
Ready Built, Proprietary (Specialized, Giant etc) that cost double the price of DIY p&p.
Ready Built, Non Proprietary (Luna)
DIY plug and play kits that you place on an existing bicycle (everywhere else)


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

matt4x4 said:


> There is a ton available out there to choose from. If your stuck on buying over priced ebikes from the majors that are proprietary then thats ok.
> 
> ebikes are becoming more and more popular each year. Years ago it was rare to see ebikes ridden anywhere, now I see them everyday.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown of things. Unfortunately, I'm not after putting a motor on my current bike, but need another whole bike. I'll still poke around some of your links.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

Haibike XDURO ALLMTN would be my top choice at the moment. (27+ rear, 29 front, 630Wh battery)

Specialized Kenevo a close second (27+, 504Wh)

I believe Focus has some 29" models as well

In the end, the choice of motor is not worth talking about, none of them are meant to be serviced, they are replaced as a whole for any kind of reason, including crappy bearings so... just go with the brand that offers the best warranty support in your area.


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## RMB-PM (Apr 24, 2009)

https://www.bikes.com/en/bikes/instinct-powerplay-bc-edition/2020?tid=419

3 yr warranty on drive system & 672Wh.

Just sayin'


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Matt4x4, going through your links makes purchasing a real E- bike even more appealing. 

All I see are poorly integrated commuter bike kits.

The best add on kit available for real mountain biking, is Revel Propulsion and you didn't even link it. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm a DIY kind of guy. I've done a custom turbo-charger system for a naturally aspirated engine, I rebuild my suspensions on my motorcycles and mtbs, I've done custom motorcycle suspension builds, I build my bikes from the frame up, I do almost all my own maintenance and repairs on my home and autos. I fabricate and weld my own MC luggage racks. You get the picture. But I can't find a good reason to slap an e-bike kit on a MTB, when there are plenty of very affordable big-name options (look for sales) that are way better integrated (motor and battery are out of the way and mounted securely, and usually have a skid plate) and come with a warranty. If you are willing to sacrifice the warranty and integration for more power and battery capacity, then I can maybe see your point. But the fact is that the existing e-MTB options with 250/500 watt motors and 500+ Wh batteries are more than enough for me, and most people out there that actually ride technical offroad trails.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I'd recommend the Turbo Levo if you want a big battery. I like that bike. I also do like the YT Pro 29. However, I ended up with a Pivot Shuttle for my own reasons. It only has a 500 WH battery but also apparently rides the most like a regular MTB...unless you consider the new Levo SL. That is a "half power" e-bike but prob the most like a regular mountain bike and relatively very light.


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## Mortsnarb (Apr 18, 2012)

TREK RAIL! enough said!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I'd look for a big battery, 500wh is just not enough. Its a hassle carrying around another fully charged 500wh battery.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

It is a hassle...no doubt about that! In my case, the Shuttle has a 500wh battery but it will be fine for most of my rides closeby...2-3 hours I usually will stay in Eco or Trail mode. On my long backcountry rides, I will have to lug around an extra battery I think. I'l just deal and maybe I can make a custom bag for the bike so I can carry the battery in that on those long rides.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

By the way, I called a ton of places when e-bike shopping. If anyone wants a leftover new 2019 Turbo Levo Comp Carbons, I know a guy that had a few left and discounted well. PM me if you need his info. I did not buy one but was close to pulling the trigger before I found this Pivot. IF there are any 2020s left, I may be able to direct you as well. I get nothing from this but it may help someone out since hardly anyone has any models in stock and certainly no discounts on a rare 2020 still in stock.


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