# To Crash is to Live



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I'll get to the crash later. It was a good one.

I was going to ride a trail I haven't ridden in a few years today but the weather wasn't promising and I really didn't want to get caught out in the rain in a place that did not have a fast return to my car so I went to my usual fall back park. 

Lewis Morris County Park, Morris County, NJ. Before you yawn, I've recently made the argument that north Jersey is like riding a prepubescent North Shore. Flow trails, features, lift served, rocks (oh, do we have rocks), roots, drops, loamy runs through deep green forests. When it all eventually hits puberty and grows up, its going to be epic. For now, its mine. 

I'm talking all our riding, not just this park which is not one of our more difficult ones.

I got to the park and it was almost empty. Fired up with a double expresso Clif Shot, I headed out and up directly. There is a gravel and rock trail that climbs for 3/4 of a mile where you branch off to the left on a single track flow run. Its fun. Where there are rocks, it is more fun. Where roots, even more fun.

Fly down it, make noise so anyone climbing knows you're coming, keep an eye out for anyone climbing so you don't run them down like an idiot and if you do see climbers, YIELD! They have the right of way.
I find people have forgotten that as much as telling you they are passing. You know, "On your left, rider back, etc." Courtesy.

At the bottom, take a drink, cross a dirt parking lot, and hit more technical single track. There was a great log crossing there for a few months. There is a pile of saw dust now. 

You soon climb now which, for me, is the best part of the ride. The older I get, the more I like to climb.

Somewhere along here, I crashed. About to go around a tree, the bike slipped out. I had a couple quick thoughts as I slid along the ground. 

1. I hope I don't hit that tree and damage my helmet. 

2. I hope I don't hurt my watch. My younger son gave it to me and it cost twice as much as my first new car - A '72 BMW 2002. 

3. I'm glad I'm not attached to my bike. I really like the Five Tens and Raceface Chester flat pedals I got last week for my birthday. Nice to fly free without 29 lbs. of bike dragging behind.

Physics rescued me in the form of friction and I stopped before much damage was done. I looked for blood. Didn't see any. Looked to see if any body parts were sticking through my cloths. They weren't. Got back on the bike and took off noting a few things hurt that hadn't hurt a moment ago.

I was debating if I should do another lap before the crash. Afterwards, the debate was answered. Feeling I had nothing to lose, I rode as fast as I could for the remaining downhill and called it a day about a minute before the sky opened.

Luck be with you.

Be Like Herb!


----------



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

To crash is to live? To crash is to risk not riding for a long time or ever again. Both things are true and we all have to reach our accommodation and balance these things. So far, no serious injuries mtb, just road rash, bruises, slices and branches broken off in my leg.

However, I had a surprise fall skiing this year and am still waiting for a full hip replacement. If I ski again, it won't be the same skiing I've done for decades - it'll be a lot tamer. That's the third serious ski injury in 55 years of skiing. 

I've lived to ski for my adult life and I've defined my life by it - see my username. But, the damage was really serious and life changing and could have been much worse if I hadn't been able to get back up and limp to the truck.

Mountain bikes also offer a high level of risk and a high incidence of broken bones and head and spine trauma. (Road bike is more likely to kill you) These injuries can limit what you do in the long run more than you may think. AND, if you're on this thread, you're probably old enough to be a bit more brittle, thin skinned (literally), and slower to heal. I'm 72 and I'm am paying the pipper on this one! I will ride the trails again, most likely in the late fall unless we shut down "elective" surgery again.

We all will take the risks that we are willing to accept at that time. We're rewarded with the thrill of taking that drop, jump, or what ever and a good shot of adrenaline. So be it because the ride is great and we're mostly all adrenaline junkies here.

It's also surprising how many of the falls occur at mundane times. When riding drops, jumps, etc, we are 100% focused on what we are doing which increases the chances of success. So many crashes happen on the easy descent back to the car when our attention wanders and we miss seeing a root or a rut.

One of my ski buddies has a saying:

"Don't be afraid to say NO
When your buddies yell GO"


Sorry about the mental wandering. I'm physically and mentally hurting right now so bear with me.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Life is a balance but if we didn't take chances, sure, we could avoid the crash but we are avoiding life by living that way?

I, too, have skied all my adult life. Prior to last season, I looked over the edge of couloir in Alaska and renamed it "Oh, Hell, No" and skied a safer route. Three people I was with skied it. We all made the right decision for those conditions on that day but we also made the decision to put ourselves in a position where we had a chance to make the decision.

Same on a bike. I could stick to rail trails, get exercise and probably still enjoy the ride but, at 71, am I ready for that? "Oh, Hell, No!" 

Mental wandering is good. I do it all the time. I'll start writing on one thing and take the reader to places even I didn't know we were going.

PS: When we ski, we never take the "last run" because, as you said, that is where crashes happen. On skis. On a bike. With life.

"Be Like Herb"


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Crashes happen even to the careful.

They pose a great physics conundrum. 

We're told time is linear, yet somehow the space/time continuum gets warped when you crash and time seems to happen very slowly.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Only the Doctor has the answer to the space/time continuum.


----------



## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Glad you still bounce well Rev! And good advice from telemike...a serious injury has a way of 'reshaping' perspective (also known as experience). I hope you get healed up and back on the horse doing what you NEED to do soon.

Me and my skiing/riding buddies (all over 60) have a saying for those of us who still push ourselves in advanced terrain with consequences. You know, the stuff that smarter people stopped doing in their 40's to take up golf or fishing. The saying is 'YOU DUMB OLD BASTID'.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

At a certain age, I think we all have a saying like that one.


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Great thread. Anybody that knocks tri-state area riding simply hasn't ridden there. 
Risk management is a trajectory and a hard earned skill set all the way long. However without the risk goes the reward. With that said I will most likely never own a motorcycle again. Some consequences, more than others, are hard to come back from. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Velobike said:


> We're told time is linear, yet somehow the space/time continuum gets warped when you crash and time seems to happen very slowly.


Yes, and you have all the time in the world thinking "this is going to hurt".

There's the other type of crash that happens in an instant. You're on the ground, wondering what the hell happened.


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

mlx john said:


> Yes, and you have all the time in the world thinking "this is going to hurt".
> 
> There's the other type of crash that happens in an instant. You're on the ground, wondering what the hell happened.


Yep had both of those....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Any time you get on a bike you're looking at consequences, IMO there is no "tame" ride, if you think so, you'll be proven wrong. Some of the worst injuries I know about are on easier trails. 

That said, if your riding is pushing the limits of your abilities you may also crash, but if that's not the case I don't feel like difficult trails are necessarily any safer than riding your town bike to the hardware store. 

I've also noticed that injuries happen to everyone, if you give up your bike to ride your couch it'll just cause other problems, I know a neighbor that goes to the dr as a result of sitting wrong, I've heard of a woman breaking her neck falling off her couch, etc. 

Life has no guarantees and will always result in the same outcome at the end. Like all things, finding the middle way and avoiding extremes is usually the wise move. So I'm gonna keep on riding, I'll take my previous injuries as the price paid for skills and experience gained, and going forward I may not try to push my skill level up as much as I did when I was younger, but I'm not going to quit riding and improving as both a mt biker and a human being. 

I see riding a bike as a fundamental human experience, for me going to the extremes is more along the lines of wingsuits, cave diving, etc. I will certainly pass on those activities without regret!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I’ll be fifty five this month, still riding hard, still crashing hard.

I don’t really notice my healing is slower, but after a week of banging off rocks I feel a little bit beat up ... then I wait a few days and repeat 👍

If I had to ride in a way that prevented crashed, that’d be about as exciting as going for a run, boring!


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

The threat of imminent crashing is better for you than actual crashing.


----------



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

Risk assessment: Probability of upset and consequences of upset. I've thought about this a bit since risk assessment, albeit in a different context, was part of the job of my employer. The two factors above are what I take into account when making go - no go decisions. Not in a formal way, but in the kind of intuitive manner that comes from experience.

Risk of upset:
....What is the terrain like and what are the chances I'll crash?
........Trail surface
........Steepness
........Rocks, roots, mud, sand, close trees etc
........Predators - where I ride that is black bears, lions, and stray dogs
....My condition
........My skill level
........How I'm feeling

Consequences of upset:
....Impact - rocks, cliffs, trees, cactus ( search you tube for "mtb cactus" - I felt so bad for that poor lady
....Speed - self explanatory for anyone on this forum
....Rescue potential
........Self rescue?
........Cell phone coverage
........PLB or satellite communication?
........User density - will someone else come along?
....Rescue infrastructure - good in most of CA, but not everywhere
....Medical insurance or no - financial impact
....Bike damage - since we're all here we kinda accept this
....Long term consequences - broken bones, head injury, paralysis, etc

None of us will make a spreadsheet for each descent like a formal risk assessment, but we follow pretty much the same thought process in our heads and we usually don't think formally about it. Our brains seem to incorporate this thinking organically. The times we should think risk out more carefully, to me, are the times when we balk at a descent or feel a bit uncomfortable.

Again, mental wandering.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Takes a certain type of person to agree with this rebellious kid...


----------



## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

On these forums I always argue for discretion: that being able to ride a bike for many years to come is more important than pulling off a risky maneuver today. Having said that, I still find myself riding faster than I should sometimes. And last week, I finally rode a section of trail that I have always walked, and I was pretty impressed with myself. But I am going to take a clue from Strava (who are no longer sharing much information on segment standings for free accounts), and from the world around me (where the hospitals are filling up with COVID patients again), and cool it down. I had several minor shunts and near-misses last week also, and the little actuary in my head is ordering a partial shut-down.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Crashes where you get up and find yourself fine with maybe just a few scrapes are awesome. Crashes where you end up in the hospital for four days, miss work, have to see a PT for months and deal with big bills, not so much.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I used to run steep creeks in kayaks, after ten years and numerous close calls I started getting risk adverse, let’s call it anxiety 🙄

The problem with anxiety is that it’s typically not good for concentration, leading to mistakes or reduced fun.

Biking has never been that way for me because crashes don’t lead to drowning. 

As long as I can breathe, I’m good 😊


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'll be fifty five this month, still riding hard, still crashing hard.


lol, ride on brother!

Myself, I hate crashing. I'd rather drink Bud Lite than crash. If I never crash again in my life it will be too soon. Crashing means I fk-ed up.


----------



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> lol, ride on brother!
> 
> Myself, I hate crashing. I'd rather drink Bud Lite than crash. If I never crash again in my life it will be too soon. Crashing means I fk-ed up.


At least get bud light lime. It tastes like something other than thin beer.


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Unlike some of you, who have decades of experience, I only got into the sport in 2017. I pushed it as hard as i could and learned a lot. Crashed a few times too. Couple otb moments.

I feel that mtb riding is a very dangerous sport. But its also very rewarding. 


lately ive been riding technical things without thinking much about it at all. This amazes me how far ive progressed.

we took a trip to the mountains last weekend and rode some trails that i hadnt been on before. They are solid blue trails. To ride quickly, you have to know what to hit where, how hard, how fast, where to brake, etc and do this mental processing of information pretty quick. Make your decision ride that feature and begin processing the next one while still riding the current one. For me thats fun. I am also very slow. But speed is relative.

i found that the decision to bail out last second on something is when things go wrong. Has to i guess. Your brain already says it cant or made a mistake that says we arent going to... Then you dont. The result is a fail.

this week it was pretty wet. But my local training trail has a bit of sand and drains well. So i went for a rip. I ride 3.0” purgatory tires on an i38 rim. Ive got over 1000 miles on these tires and they are starting to show significant wear. More so on the rear. But i want to stretch their life span as you cant buy more. “Thanks specialized!” Anywhooo. I Aggressively made a 90 degree Left turn into a section of rutted out, rooty and steep single track. Tucked the front wheel and carved up the turf, but saved it. So tonight i dropped on a Crisp new front tire from my tire stash. Still similar conditions out there, but sure feels nice to feel that Crisp bite again. I respected the corner a bit more, but didnt shy away from it either.

So No crash To report, but about as close as i want to get.

keep your body healthy. But keep your bike in shape too!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

... apparently I’m living large this holiday weekend, two big crashes in one day, walked out of both, but I’m gonna be sore!

Ya all jinxed me 🙄


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

...!and it keeps on coming!

Two crashes yesterday: number one, sand covered boulder, no braking allowed, four point landing, bar spin had all my shite messed up. Number two, nice air off a blind boulder into a hiden boulder, did a graceful step off, bike left and Ben right, two point landing, bike was fine.

So before we start into Upper Big Chief, my buddy asks me which Ben is gonna ride today, ie the one who looks before he leaps or the one who rides the helicopter? I told him I’d look first, psych!

I love riding fast on technical terrain 😊


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Out in the mountains again on friday. New trail. Sign said, “more difficult way down, use at own risk”. 

So I took it. 

They need another sign part way down that says... Sucker!

Dirt trail was so steep they had planted, by hand, flatish rough faced rocks to create more breaking grip. You know its steep when your not just behind the seat but behind the rear tire to get low enough to keep from going otb!

Made it. But skidded both ends for a few feet before gaining traction again!


----------



## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

i got kind of puckerish just reading that. The hardest part is letting go the brake at the top.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

ddoh said:


> i got kind of puckerish just reading that. The hardest part is letting go the brake at the top.


Braking is for control, not stopping 

I love steep trails, the rocky the better, though a it of fast flow is fun too.

One of the things I don't see folks do often is "repeats", so for example you might get too puckerish on a drop, so you walk it, but consider walking and inspecting it a few times, see if there is a way to do that's not as scary.

If you mess up, then repeat, makes the ride more interesting and makes the ride less about survival than doing well.


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Riding in the mountains today with my teenage daughter. Shes a pretty good rider. 
We are on our way down and just flew/floated/zoomed over a rock wash along the mountain side and hit the smooth flat double track. I hear this kerflop thud bike bang noise and look back and she is on the ground.

"Im okay" She says. She clearly isnt. Bit of light shock and adrenaline. Few scrapes and bruises. 


A bug flew into my shirt so i swatted and pulled at my shirt. 

Man.... whats a dad to do?


I think i will pay more attention myself and assess our riding gear. She had long sweats on that saved her but still scraped her knee and a long sleeved sweater which covered a new scraped elbow. 

Knee and elbow pads.....


----------



## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Braking is for control, not stopping
> 
> I love steep trails, the rocky the better, though a it of fast flow is fun too.
> 
> ...


Nice... yeh and trees can be for bouncing or "stopping" sometimes too 

Once I "adjusted" most of my spine (according to a chiropractor along on the ride who was waiting at the bottom of a descent).

Came around a corner fast that went into a curvy/steep down section. I realized a tree was down a little too late (suspended by one big branch that wasn't quite big enough to slide underneath). The branch caught the front of my helmet and I heard cracks all the way down my spine as my bike half spun out.

I was more cautious on steep grades where stopping wasn't really an option for a little while after that one...


----------



## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

mine could have been worse, but waking up sitting because you cant lie down sucks.

wrecking comes with the territory of two wheels, id rather do stupid crap on a bike then my Ducati or Husaberg, but neither of those two sent me to the ER.

I still hurt from last weeks ER visit [broken collar bone, 2 ribs and 2 bones that attach to the vertebrae] but im moving around better, and already have the bike ready to go

would not call this living oer say, sure beats the opposite LOL

RIDE ON!


----------



## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I just dont want to stop my head cracking lifestyle on the offchance i crash.

I have had the tendency to smash my teeth out recently. A fullface in allowing me to continue my teeth smashing lifestyle


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

telemike said:


> Risk assessment: Probability of upset and consequences of upset. I've thought about this a bit since risk assessment, albeit in a different context, was part of the job of my employer. The two factors above are what I take into account when making go - no go decisions. Not in a formal way, but in the kind of intuitive manner that comes from experience.
> 
> Risk of upset:
> ....What is the terrain like and what are the chances I'll crash?
> ...


Hmmmmm. A pre-trauma spread sheet that factors in recovery time, fiscal expense, likelihood of a fatal or near-fatal event, and not to leave best last, the probable amount/duration of pain. 
All in an app that comes up on your bar in a millisecond.
I bet that would be a seller!


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Outhouse said:


> mine could have been worse, but waking up sitting because you cant lie down sucks.
> 
> wrecking comes with the territory of two wheels, id rather do stupid crap on a bike then my Ducati or Husaberg, but neither of those two sent me to the ER.
> 
> ...


Just please tell us all your'e checked the "organ donor" box on your license. I know, and yes, I have, 
'Course, I figure most of my shyte is damaged to the point of being virtually useless, but the principle is still there. 
Crash on! (But try not to take anybody with you.).


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> ... apparently I'm living large this holiday weekend, two big crashes in one day, walked out of both, but I'm gonna be sore!
> 
> Ya all jinxed me 


And no thank-you? Typical.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Velobike said:


> Crashes happen even to the careful.
> 
> They pose a great physics conundrum.
> 
> We're told time is linear, yet somehow the space/time continuum gets warped when you crash and time seems to happen very slowly.


Velobike, the semi-retarded algorithms here tell me I can't give you anymore rep, so a hearty thank-you for that post will have to suffice.

And Rev, same for you.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

my hockey coaches always told me that if you don't fall down, you don't learn how NOT to fall down...

...I am still learning, in both sports!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, thanks sooo much 

Bright note: I didn't crash this past weekend!

That said, I have big plans for next weeked 



Radium said:


> And no thank-you? Typical.


----------



## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> View attachment 1345729
> 
> 
> Takes a certain type of person to agree with this rebellious kid...


Cool!. I'm plagiarizing that.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> my hockey coaches always told me that if you don't fall down, you don't learn how NOT to fall down...


Sounds like something that someone who's experienced multiple concussions might say.


----------



## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

4 weeks ago moved to a new area where i had never ridden the trails before. I have crashed 4 times since moving in, including today (ripped my shorts). Prior to this, I can't remember the last time i crashed. At 56, i need to get a handle on it....


----------



## Redmon (Jan 12, 2004)

Velobike said:


> Crashes happen even to the careful.
> 
> They pose a great physics conundrum.
> 
> We're told time is linear, yet somehow the space/time continuum gets warped when you crash and time seems to happen very slowly.


Haha , that reminds me of my last bad crash. Flying downhill, I had ridden this trail literally hundreds of times. I knew every quirk, every bump and jump.....and then time seems to almost stand still.
I look at my right hand in slow motion and wonder...why the hell is my hand off the grip??? Im looking at my hand for what seems an eternity and then I am on the ground feeling all busted up. My first broken helmet ever from crashing. Thank goodness I always wear one. On the drive to the hospital all I could remember was staring at my hand....why did I let go???


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Over 3 decades of riding and still haven't learned to let go of the bike when I feel a crash coming... 

I rolled up to something that I felt might be rollable, but it turned out to be a drop after I peered over the edge and saw a lack of a transition. I slam on the brakes and put my feet down, but the front half of the bike is over the edge. I held onto one of the the grips to limit the damage to the bike, but it pulled me over and I ended up on my hands and knees. Clothes and body slightly shredded up, but bike was okay...

A riding bud, who I believe is in his 40s, also had a bad fall, not letting go of the bike despite getting that ass-over-shoulders feeling when jumping. He was on the ground for a short while and got up all groggy-like, certain that he received a minor concussion. His riding glasses got smashed, and the broken hinge drew blood from his temple area.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

coyotegulch said:


> 4 weeks ago moved to a new area where i had never ridden the trails before. I have crashed 4 times since moving in, including today (ripped my shorts). Prior to this, I can't remember the last time i crashed. At 56, i need to get a handle on it....


...or stop wearing shorts...I am sure that riding bottomless ups the safety and fun factor!:thumbsup:


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Sounds like something that someone who's experienced multiple concussions might say.


wait....what were we talking about?


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> ...or stop wearing shorts...I am sure that riding bottomless ups the safety and fun factor!:thumbsup:


i hear kt tape was invented just for this type of riding. Good luck getting it off.


----------



## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Varaxis said:


> A riding bud, who I believe is in his 40s, also had a bad fall, not letting go of the bike despite getting that ass-over-shoulders feeling when jumping. He was on the ground for a short while and got up all groggy-like, certain that he received a minor concussion. His riding glasses got smashed, and the broken hinge drew blood from his temple area.


I've had a very similar sounding incident :lol:

I personally don't like to let go unless I have to (on occasion, it happens). Something I learned racing motorcycles, once you let go, you crash. You CAN NEVER recover once you give up.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Easy answer: Learn to ride a unicycle.

You will crash so much and so often that letting go will become natural.

You're welcome 



Varaxis said:


> Over 3 decades of riding and still haven't learned to let go of the bike when I feel a crash coming...
> 
> I rolled up to something that I felt might be rollable, but it turned out to be a drop after I peered over the edge and saw a lack of a transition. I slam on the brakes and put my feet down, but the front half of the bike is over the edge. I held onto one of the the grips to limit the damage to the bike, but it pulled me over and I ended up on my hands and knees. Clothes and body slightly shredded up, but bike was okay...
> 
> A riding bud, who I believe is in his 40s, also had a bad fall, not letting go of the bike despite getting that ass-over-shoulders feeling when jumping. He was on the ground for a short while and got up all groggy-like, certain that he received a minor concussion. His riding glasses got smashed, and the broken hinge drew blood from his temple area.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nice video about crashing:

https://freehubmag.com/videos/mount...il&utm_term=0_a8f70ef9b9-1dead59fdc-346078773

Might not speak to everyone, but nice perspective from a few folks who make a living crashing.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Sidewalk said:


> I've had a very similar sounding incident :lol:
> 
> I personally don't like to let go unless I have to (on occasion, it happens). Something I learned racing motorcycles, once you let go, you crash. You CAN NEVER recover once you give up.







Hard to break habits but this video shows how impressively effective a bail is.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

... except he should have tucked and rolled vs landed on his feet, but it worked out okay because the dirt was soft and slippery.

The hardest falls are when you are already down low, no time to plan a dismount, like when you wash out your front end on a downhill.

But you can still roll, it takes practice, and it requires commitment.

Being prepared to crash is always helpful, but most of my crashes on a bike are "accidental" 

On a muni I usually knew it was coming, even then, having had thousands of dismounts, injury is inevitable. I have broken all of my fingers at least twice.

Knock on wood, no head injuries to date!


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Dismounting can take some reflexes, flexibility, agility and strength, all which I find seems to be in shorter supply lately.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

You talking about that the guy in the video I posted, Nurse Ben?

Looked like he did the same thing his bike did, with the inertia he had, except he rolled on his side after touching down right-side up. 

This is how I expect falls to happen if speed was involved, spreading the impact energy over time through bouncing, rotating, sliding, etc., rather than instantaneously stopping in a splat. People share their fear that speed is dangerous, and expect worse, sometimes reasoning that they're lucky it wasn't like they expected. I see higher speed crashes turn out this way that I don't even get worked up, and can predict how hurt someone is before they even come to a stop. In observing actual reality rather than a fearful imagined "reality", I'd say that his roll looked involuntary, so in essence the speed helped him avoid serious injury.

Probably different if you got a ton of metal involved, or a solid/hard flat surface that's perpendicular to your falling direction. Guess that's what gets people in low speed falls...


----------



## Racecar (Oct 10, 2019)

I was a skier for 30 years and only had one crash that broke my foot when I was 55. That was a small price to pay for all of the good times. I raced sports cars for 10 years, and only had one serious crash when I was 45. Was I afraid of crashing and getting 
hurt ? Not nearly as much as the fear of how much money it would cost to fix the car. The fear is what makes it a challenge, it is the difference from those who live life, and those that watch it go by. Turning 70 soon, I bought a mtn bike last year and I am loving the forest. Like skiing and racing cars, there is that sense of danger that keeps it exciting.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

My problem is, I had my share of danger, violence whatever, by the time I was 40. 
And the hit kept coming. Closing in on 60 now, and every crash on the bike is a bit of karmic payback , it seems. I had a good one yesterday, a simple little deal where my CB pedal would not release when my weight shifted to my left. Thing is, it was at the front of a line of about 200 cars waiting to get into the Cabrillo National Monument. It made me laugh, as I'm sure that it entertained quite a few folks. So, naturally, I turned to my audience and took a bow. ............But only after getting a couple bandaids from the nice, cute ranger gal.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

My problem is, I had my share of danger, violence whatever, by the time I was 40. 
And the hit kept coming. Closing in on 60 now, and every crash on the bike is a bit of karmic payback , it seems. I had a good one yesterday, a simple little deal where my CB pedal would not release when my weight shifted to my left. Thing is, it was at the front of a line of about 200 cars waiting to get into the Cabrillo National Monument. It made me laugh, as I'm sure that it entertained quite a few folks. So, naturally, I turned to my audience and took a bow. ............But only after getting a couple bandaids from the nice, cute ranger gal.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Lone Rager said:


> Dismounting can take some reflexes, flexibility, agility and strength, all which I find seems to be in shorter supply lately.


You just need more practice!

I crash plenty, it's great practice for when I crash ... wait, wut?


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Isn't falling dismounting?


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Rev Bubba said:


> Isn't falling dismounting?


Sure, also random dismount, accidental dismount...........the list goes on.


----------



## SurlyJohn (Jul 4, 2020)

Radium said:


> My problem is, I had my share of danger, violence whatever, by the time I was 40.
> And the hit kept coming. Closing in on 60 now, and every crash on the bike is a bit of karmic payback , it seems. I had a good one yesterday, a simple little deal where my CB pedal would not release when my weight shifted to my left. Thing is, it was at the front of a line of about 200 cars waiting to get into the Cabrillo National Monument. It made me laugh, as I'm sure that it entertained quite a few folks. So, naturally, I turned to my audience and took a bow. ............But only after getting a couple bandaids from the nice, cute ranger gal.


Isn't the statistic that most auto crashes occur within 5 miles of home?

Maybe that's true for bikes too. 

Tonight's ~10 miles of flowy single track had me tired as I approached the parking lot. Traffic on the road made me do a few circles before going across. Went across the road and hit the curb without much momentum and the rocks in between the street curb and the sidewalk stopped me DEAD.

Accidental dismount to the right. Cars beeped their horns - I bowed too.

The funny part is directly in front of where I was crossing there was a woman on the phone in her car - saw the whole thing. She laughed so hard she spilled her Starbucks. I gave her a big thumbs up as I continued on.

Bent a brake lever, elbow and knee scrape, but nothing else. Sometimes $hit just happens..and then we laugh about it.

John

P.S. Brake lever is bent back straight now. I need two beers - one to drink and one to rest my elbow on. Cheers!


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

SurlyJohn said:


> Isn't the statistic that most auto crashes occur within 5 miles of home?
> 
> Maybe that's true for bikes too.
> 
> ...


It's nice to know that others appreciate our foibles, isn't it?:thumbsup:


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Me and my family were out riding this weekend. Got a little aggressive. Hit 63.4kph on the trail. Felt plenty fast to me. Had a jump coming up and i just let speed and gravity do its work. Didnt try to gain the extra lift off that we seek at lower speeds... turned out successful! This time!

Later i opened her up some more on some rocky tech. Well, in summary, this weekend taught me what it might feel like to be a 20yr old again. At least for a few turns. it was my first real taste of race bike speed and what it must be like for those young guns! 

Does anybody else hit a speed where your eyes cant keep up with the violent shaking your bike and body is taking and you loose ground focus?

i do like to practice staying light on the bike. But at 40kph through some chunk... there is a point where i loose the ability to track the terrain! Used to happen on my hardtail but at much lower speeds.


----------



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, thanks sooo much
> 
> Bright note: I didn't crash this past weekend!
> 
> That said, I have big plans for next weeked


Remember the old adage, "You don't know if your'e riding too fast if you don't crash".

I no longer subscribe to that one.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Fuse6F said:


> Me and my family were out riding this weekend. Got a little aggressive. Hit 63.4kph on the trail. Felt plenty fast to me. Had a jump coming up and i just let speed and gravity do its work. Didnt try to gain the extra lift off that we seek at lower speeds... turned out successful! This time!
> 
> Later i opened her up some more on some rocky tech. Well, in summary, this weekend taught me what it might feel like to be a 20yr old again. At least for a few turns. it was my first real taste of race bike speed and what it must be like for those young guns!
> 
> ...


63.4 kph = just under 40 mph. I dunno if I still hit those speeds, but my ride logs say so. Dunno where exactly, because the analysis doesn't show it. Probably just a spike that lasts like 1 second.

Used to pedal 36 mph on slight downslopes back when 42t big rings were still a thing. My eyesight has since deteriorated, and now I'm near-sighted. I don't wear glasses, but do have them for driving (I don't drive anymore). Things are all literally a blur, so I don't ride too fast any more, even on trails I've memorized. I've been trying to practice riding near blind, by riding at night with my shades still on, but I revert to my old bad habits of getting defensive, even at half speed. I try to use a bit of faith if I put my mind to riding fast.

Makes me appreciate well groomed trails where it's just about following the flow of the trail, trusting that there's no surprises to worry about as long as I keep the flow. Can just enter a trance-like state and try to feel for the zone. The "zone" is like some unique heightened state, where I am riding at/beyond my limit but can envision what it would take for my body to survive. It's like my brain calculates things so fast, while in the zone, that I'm in making conscious decisions in slow mo, and can precisely time my movements according to how I envisioned, on top of expanding my focus to be broader, perhaps extending beyond my field of view.

I like to gauge my speed based on rabbits popping up on the trail and running in front. If I gain on them so quickly that they screech before retreating into the brush, I know I'm going fast. xD Seems more universal than going by what rattles my vision.


----------



## Xylx (Mar 18, 2005)

Crashing saved my life. Last fall I got off the side of the trail into some soft stuff and went over the bars. I broke my clavicle (again). Imaging ensued. They thought I had liver cancer, but the MRI ruled that out. Hah! All that beer and my liver is still just fine at 64. What wasn't so fine was my thyroid. I had a cancerous lobe removed six weeks ago. It had not spread. If I had not crashed the cancer would have just continued to grow and at some point spread. So sometimes a crash is a really good thing. It has tamed me a bit. The Pony Rustler hasn't seen any action, but the Fatboy is nice and slow and sure-footed.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I hit 55 mph on my road bike last season and didn't even know it until the ride was over and my Sigma and Strava confirmed it.

I was on a group ride and lagged far behind on a long climb. I usually make up time on the downhill. I was going fast enough to not look at my speedometer but the road was long and smooth and there was the group to catch.

It wasn't until the ride ended and I read the max speed on the two instruments. I likely said "holy sh!t!"


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

It's always a blessing to catch cancer early. I know from experience. I think it was 12 or more years ago now.


----------



## Dougr (Jun 15, 2006)

In my late '50's and have my most spectacular (riding) crashes within the last 3 years.
3 years ago: Totally tore my left bicep tendon in a blunt trauma impact. Fell down a ravine, slammed into a tree then grabbed tree to keep from going off a small cliff. Had the tendon re-attached and had to rest and PT for 6 weeks.
Last year, crashed hard twice. First crash; blowing a jump line. was a human raspberry on entire left side.
Second crash; went down hard at high speed while cornering in rocks and roots. Bruised ribs, again on left side.
Guess I gotta learn how to fall to the left!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No crashes this past weekend, can't say I didn't try, must be my guardian angel took a break from hitting the bottle 

I once went 60mph on a fully loaded touring bike, it was sketchy as hell, I was also much younger them ...


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

No crashes this weekend but my inner thigh is tender and sore as hell. Like I stabbed it with my handlebar end or something. Can only conclude the seat must of slammed it but don't remember it happening. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


----------



## mtntrance (Sep 3, 2005)

*Had my worst crash Saturday at the bike park*

Was at the lift access bike park outside of Austin _Spider Mountain_. Went over a berm on a blue I had already ridden a lot that day. Wound up with a concussion. It was a hard limestone landing. I was probably riding in the heat too long. Next time I am lift access riding I will use a full face helmet. My helmet probably saved my life. Feeling grateful to walk away, to get to ride again soon and for finding this thread. I'm 55 and live to ride.


----------



## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Dam dude!


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

*Anatomy of a crash*

Recently while enjoying a ride in my own private Idaho, I had the misfortune to have what I see now was a catastrophic, over the bars, crash.

Aftermath: broken arm just below the shoulder, fractured pelvis in the pubic region, bone bruise on elbow with stiches, and two compression fractures in low spine. Four days in the hospital in early July, but back on my feet now with limited use of my arm.

To see where this crash happened you would never believe that I could get so messed up.

The trail had been recently weed eated on both sides the width of a lawn mower. Mostly this grass and other weeds was not an issue, but where my accident happened it was critical.

The country was relatively flat but trending downhill as I was riding across a big open flat. I was moving along with good speed coming into a outside corner when the trail suddenly became a u-shaped depression about a foot deep and a little wider, and laying there in the bottom of this depression was all the grass that had been cut from both sides of the trail.

When I got on the grass my front end instantaneously washed out and I started to go down in what I was expecting to be simply laying the bike down.

Next thing I know, the front tire has slid across the grass and now hooks back up with the trail on the outside of the u-shaped trough, and at that point my world turned upside down and the lights damn near went out.

Before I could even comprehend what was happening, the front tire shot back across the trail in front of me as I'm starting to go down.

At this point I am compressed into the cockpit as I start to go over the bike which is now sideways to my direction of travel and I take it over with me, landing with the handlebar in my groin. Most if not all of my speed was absorbed in the compression, and when I hit the ground, I landed fugging hard on my elbow.

So zero road rash, but multiple broken bones.

Six weeks out and still looking at another minimum of six more before I can consider getting back on the trails. Gave my 5010 C to our grandson figuring I'll get me a new ride when the time comes.

That's my sad story, of the worst crash I've ever had.

Post-script: Almost forgot - after I gathered myself up I realized I had really done it this time. Immediately I knew I had broken my arm, and as soon as I attempted to walk I realized I had fractured my pelvis too. What to do now? I couldn't walk and my car was a half mile away. If I cut downhill through the grass to the lower trail it would be a half mile. If I went back on my trail it would be a mile.

So I got on my bike with crooked handlebar and shakily rolled down through the grass a hundred feet to the lower trail and then mostly down with minimal pedaling the half mile back to my car.

In the parking lot I hobbled over to a dude in his pickup and he graciously put my bike on my rack for me and bandaged up my elbow. Nice as hell guy!

From there I drove myself in and the rest is history, never to be repeated.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mudflap said:


> From there I drove myself in and the rest is history, never to be repeated.


Nice story, not to be repeated if you can help it, gotta admit that all of my bad crashes were lame and not due to getting agro, most of the time itwas clipping a tree, adjusting a zipper, or just plan silly stuff.

Six months ain't too long, get on the trainer and stay fit, then order a new bike when you can ride again!!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I've been wearing a Bell 3R with removeable chin guard ... which of course I rarely wear. So the other day I ordered two different full face helmets with the plan that they will become my everyday helmet.

A good helmet is a worthy investment.

I also started wearing shin/knee protection on all my rides .. still holding off on elbow/forearm wear.



mtntrance said:


> Was at the lift access bike park outside of Austin _Spider Mountain_. Went over a berm on a blue I had already ridden a lot that day. Wound up with a concussion. It was a hard limestone landing. I was probably riding in the heat too long. Next time I am lift access riding I will use a full face helmet. My helmet probably saved my life. Feeling grateful to walk away, to get to ride again soon and for finding this thread. I'm 55 and live to ride.
> 
> View attachment 1356243


----------



## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

mudflap said:


> ....From there I drove myself in and the rest is history, never to be repeated.


Best description of "an event" I've ever read -- I could visualize every moment and even felt sympathetic pain. And love the self rescue! Consider writing your "pandemic novel" while you're laid up...


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Damn*

I am glad I never did that to a helmet.


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Excellent write up.*

I always appreciate something well written that can stand on its own without pictures.

I did something similar when I was 60 but I didn't drive anywhere. I was surfing in a tropical storm and I left the beach on a backboard fearing the wrath of my wife more than any pain.

She was understanding and I should not have under estimated the pain and four days in intensive care.

For two seasons afterwards, I overheard the life guards telling stories about the old dude who almost bought the farm.

I got a story I can still tell after eleven years and that riding buddies repeat when they want to tell about someone getting really f'ed up.


----------



## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I've been wearing a Bell 3R with removeable chin guard ... which of course I rarely wear. So the other day I ordered two different full face helmets with the plan that they will become my everyday helmet.
> 
> A good helmet is a worthy investment.
> 
> I also started wearing shin/knee protection on all my rides .. still holding off on elbow/forearm wear.


You sound like me. I recently went from a Bell 2R to the TLD Stage. I wear the Stage on almost all of my rides. It's a bit warmer than a half-shell, but tolerable on the climbs. Very confidence-inspiring on the downs. It's nice not having to fiddle with the chin guard on the 2R anymore.


----------



## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

Crashing is part of riding and I seem to have my most serious crashes on trails that I've ridden numerous times. Probably due to being more relaxed on those trails and not as focused as when I am on newer trails. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

It's almost 11 weeks now since riding my trusty steed into the dirt and messing myself up pretty bad.

I'm happy to say that my broken arm has come back, though still weak, somewhat shaky, and not quite ready for prime time. Still, I've been out multiple times on the local greenbelt and twice now on the trails around my house, riding with a new appreciation for staying upright while realizing that going down would be a fugging utter disaster at this time. 

With that realization, also comes the realization that I will have to ratchet back my riding style in the future, but until I can really start riding again with any kind of confidence in my ability to absorb the impact of a crash, I'm not sure what that riding style will be. I just know I will be ultra cautious as I work myself back from the damage I inflicted upon myself. 

With time as my constant companion this life, I know I will be riding free as a bird again in the near future, maybe a bit more humble now from the reality of this experience, but none the less, I will live on in the aftermath validating that the title "To Crash is to Live," oxymoron that it may be, is after all mostly true, just not how most of us would choose to live.


----------



## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

Mr Flap, Glad to hear you are on the mend. Did you buy a new bike?


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

A 20mph DH crash dislocated my middle finger at the second knuckle, when I struck a jagged rock outcropping. First thing I did was inspect the carbon bike, when I noticed the middle finger was dangling off the skin only. I had to play stat chiro and pop that digit back into its socket. 

Next day, the middle finger looked like Jabba the Hut. Doc said I was lucky with the foresight to do the trailside "repair" If not, he would have to re-break and operate. Endorphins was on my side, that day.

That incident alone, put me off the bike for 52 days. Ugh. The cause was due to a neglected worn cleat that unclipped me while descending. I was doing the Superman pose, with fixed high saddle under my gut, as the bike was nearing off the ridge to a 200 foot sure-death fall. I aborted the bike at the last second. My back and legs looked like a yuge rotary cheese grater made a pass.


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

No new bike for now, but did spring for some new tires. 

The grandson rides a rigid fat bike and I thought he may be tired of not having any squish, but turns out he gave the bike back, so I'm stuck with the 5010C, and that suits me just fine.

But I have to say it was fun looking at the many different bikes that are out there just waiting for new owners to pull the trigger.

And as a follow up to this whole fiasco, I'm about three grand in the hole in caring for my crash related health expenses, so just as well no new bike at this time.


----------

