# Can you bring your bike on the trains? / Where to bike in EU?



## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

I'm guessing it differs from each train company, but I bought an EU Global pass and was wondering if it will be a big deal to bring my bike on or not? 

And while I am at it, where in FR, CH, and IT should I be riding for single track/awesome views/fire roads. I am thinking about cycling throughout IT, or through most of it, then a train to Sicily, then using my bike to get around Sicily. Haven't decided yet.

Thanks : )


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

usually it is not an issue on regional or commuter trains, but on the fast ones like the ICE, it can be a problem (no bike wagon)


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

crisillo said:


> usually it is not an issue on regional or commuter trains, but on the fast ones like the ICE, it can be a problem (no bike wagon)


If I go to each of the train timetables, will it tell me if they will allow it? What's the usual extra charge to bring bikes?

So TGV is out, too?

I need to use the direct train (not sure if it's "fast" or not) from Venice to Zurich. That'll be on the way back with my bike. If they don't allow bikes, what can I do?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

yeah..you can ask at the station.... well you could "pack it in a box or bag"

I once brought my bike in a box from Amsterdam to Saarbrücken...and while it was a problem to find a place big enough for it on the train, nobody complained, since it was "a box"

you could get a box at a LBS before getting on the train..


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

crisillo said:


> yeah..you can ask at the station.... well you could "pack it in a box or bag"
> 
> I once brought my bike in a box from Amsterdam to Saarbrücken...and while it was a problem to find a place big enough for it on the train, nobody complained, since it was "a box"
> 
> you could get a box at a LBS before getting on the train..


Trains don't mind that big of a piece of luggage? I can get a box, and have it dismantled, but that won't work when I need to take a train from say, Venice to Rome. Do I have other options? I'm really only going to be in IT and CH - with a bit of FR added in for good mix (I want to see Versailles and shop in Paris).


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

BohemianChris said:


> Trains don't mind that big of a piece of luggage? I can get a box, and have it dismantled, but that won't work when I need to take a train from say, Venice to Rome. Do I have other options? I'm really only going to be in IT and CH - with a bit of FR added in for good mix (I want to see Versailles and shop in Paris).


I didn't have a problem, but I did walk a bit inside the train to look for a spot where the box wouldn't be in the way.....

If you have the time go and ask at the train station before hand, so that you know where you can and can't exactly... that's the safest bet...


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

crisillo said:


> I didn't have a problem, but I did walk a bit inside the train to look for a spot where the box wouldn't be in the way.....
> 
> If you have the time go and ask at the train station before hand, so that you know where you can and can't exactly... that's the safest bet...


Yeah, I don't want to get stranded. Do I have to ask the train station, or would the websites (in English) have that information? Once I head from Venice to Zurich, I won't be riding anymore, so I don't mind it being boxed up. But other times, I'll be back peddling.

Sigh. I just hope they aren't as bad as airline luggage restrictions. Do the train operators mind if you put the bike standing up next to you, if there is an empty seat? I'm guessing that would only work on trains that you don't have to reserve a seat for.

When you said bag, did you just mean a huge garbage type bag? I'd be more comfortable with that considering it's an expensive bike and I don't want it stolen.

I'm sorry of my ignorance towards this subject - I really have no damn clue of what I'm doing.

And would you happen to know a nice shirt that does the best job wicking away the sweat (it'll need to be able 10-15 pounds if I have a tent, less without) so when my backpack is on, my back won't feel horrible.

Isn't there luggage cars on all the trains where you can throw your luggage in? Wouldn't it be as simple as paying a higher price for an oversize item?

Have you ever done any biking through Europe before? Any tips? Like I said, I want to do as much as Italy and CH as possible. In CH I have a friend's house to stay at, so that trip will have a lighter backpack, but in IT I have to stock up on both regular clothes and dress clothes, along with a tie (just in case). And a swimsuit, of course. : )

Thanks a lot. This dream is becoming reality.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Are you familiar with bike bags? I read the Trenitalia site and it reads 

"Within the limits of the places available, you can take your bicycle with you on the Suburban, Regional, Direct and Inter-regional trains, marked in the Timetable by the appropriate pictogram, and paying a supplement of 3.50 euro valid 24 hours or, as an alternative to the supplement ticket, a ticket at the full second class fare having the same characteristics of the ticket held by the traveller. 
On some Intercity, EuroCity and EuroNight, Express Night services - these too marked in the Timetable by an appropriate pictogram, the transport of bicycles on international routes is done by paying a full-price ticket including the 10 euro for travelling with your bicycle. 
Also, on all the Italy-only ('national') services, free bicycle transport is allowed in the appropriate bags, except for in the Eurostar Italia, TBiz and TrenOk services, where they can only be carried if left in the spaces in the carriage vestibules. If there are no places available, the bicycles can be placed elsewhere provided they do not block the way or cause problems to other passengers or the on-board personnel. 
In any case, the bags travel at customers' risk. The insurance policy for luggage left in the vestibules, couchettes and WLs, covers up to a maximum of € 260 for cases of theft. 
It is also possible to deposit, free of charge, the empty sack at the stations that provide this service, for 24 hours starting from ticket stamping. "

I've never heard of these bike bags. A friend of mine in CH sent me to a site where they wanted 250USD for one. That can't be right. 

Maybe this will help more, I'll come into Italia through the direct train from Zurich to Milan with my bike. I will then bike a bit and take a train to Venice. Then bike a bit more southwest and take a bike to Florence. Then a train to Rome, then a train to Naples. (I was told don't go south of Naples with my bike or it'll be stolen, which is a pity, I wanted to enjoy the beaches of Sicily but I guess there's the Amafali Coast). Then Naples to Zurich (as direct and quickly as possible) I don't mind the extra charge, but I want to make sure my bike is safe, and I won't have any problems because I can't dismantle and DHL it everywhere - not only will it get expensive, but it's a waste of time. 

Thanks for your help. Where do you live, by the way?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

yeah..that's the kind of "bag" I was referring to.....you might want to check this one out
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15325

CRC ships cheaply within Europe so you might be able to ship it where you arrive.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

crisillo said:


> yeah..that's the kind of "bag" I was referring to.....you might want to check this one out
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15325
> 
> CRC ships cheaply within Europe so you might be able to ship it where you arrive.


That's an extra 6.2kg on my back - not gonna work.

Are they actually not going to let me board if I don't have a bag (I bought an Eu Rail global pass)? I'd put it in a box that I could find locally, but carrying an extra 6.2kg on my back is unreasonable and will hurt my back considering I'm looking at 60-100km a day.

What is CRC?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

BohemianChris said:


> That's an extra 6.2kg on my back - not gonna work.
> 
> Are they actually not going to let me board if I don't have a bag (I bought an Eu Rail global pass)? I'd put it in a box that I could find locally, but carrying an extra 6.2kg on my back is unreasonable and will hurt my back considering I'm looking at 60-100km a day.
> 
> What is CRC?


yeah good point (CRC is chain reaction cycles, the store in the link)

well...the regulations on trains vary from country to country...you already have the italian ones...just check theother ones if possible..and adjust acordingly.....

as it said in the text you found, it can be the case that they restrict your options for going with the bike, so be prepared to be flexible in that regard...


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

Get yourself one of these. You just need to pop off the front wheel and your bike goes as luggage for free! It packs up into a little bag and weighs only about a kilo.

http://www.veloplus.ch/veloartikel/shopartikeldetail.asp?grp=4799


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

ir12daveor said:


> Get yourself one of these. You just need to pop off the front wheel and your bike goes as luggage for free! It packs up into a little bag and weighs only about a kilo.
> 
> http://www.veloplus.ch/veloartikel/shopartikeldetail.asp?grp=4799


Thanks. Do all trains allow you at least one piece of luggage? And where do you store it? Next/above you, or in a luggage car?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

BohemianChris said:


> Thanks. Do all trains allow you at least one piece of luggage? And where do you store it? Next/above you, or in a luggage car?


luggage is not "limited" AFAIK in trains.... usually you can put your luggage above you or at one of the ends of the wagon you travel on.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Sounds great. Now I just have to decide where to ride in CH, IT, and maybe FR...

I still have my ticket d'treize so I can get around Provence for 1e, but I don't think they allow bikes. Pitty - I could go from Cannes, then to Marseille, and bike to Aix and Avignon.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

BohemianChris said:


> Thanks. Do all trains allow you at least one piece of luggage? And where do you store it? Next/above you, or in a luggage car?


Its pretty much unlimited luggage. If it fits you can keep it next to you, but the bike will probably need to go in the luggage area or bike area depending on the trains. All the long distance trains will have areas for luggage or bikes.

I can highly recommend the riding in Switzerland. :thumbsup:


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

ir12daveor said:


> Its pretty much unlimited luggage. If it fits you can keep it next to you, but the bike will probably need to go in the luggage area or bike area depending on the trains. All the long distance trains will have areas for luggage or bikes.
> 
> I can highly recommend the riding in Switzerland. :thumbsup:


Where in CH do you recommend going? My "base camp", if you will is 20km north of Zurich at a friend's house. Thought about taking the train to Zermatt and spend a few days there, then coming back. Basel, Lucerne, and Geneva are on my list. Not sure where else to go.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

BohemianChris said:


> Where in CH do you recommend going? My "base camp", if you will is 20km north of Zurich at a friend's house. Thought about taking the train to Zermatt and spend a few days there, then coming back. Basel, Lucerne, and Geneva are on my list. Not sure where else to go.


That depends on what you are looking for. My favourite area is right by St. Moritz in the Engadine valley, there are so many trails with unreal views up there. Its well worth a few days trip.

There are also some nice routes that I know of in Jura (Creux de Van) is one I have done myself which was really cool.

Ticino down south has some pretty good trails, and if its raining on the north side of the alps there is a good chance it is dry and sunny down there.

There are also some trails worth checking out in and around Zurich. Uetliberg is a municipal trail that drops about 400m in altitude, The climb is on fireroad and then you get a great view over the city and lake before hitting the trail. Its good fun. The other side of the city has Zuriberg which has more cross country type loops which can be fun too.

There are loads of resources online for biking in Switzerland, most in German, but here's one in English. It's not go that much on it yet, but hopefully more people will start to add routes with time. The same site has loads of information for English speakers in Switzerland.


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## yokine (Aug 31, 2007)

ir12daveor said:


> That depends on what you are looking for. My favourite area is right by St. Moritz in the Engadine valley, there are so many trails with unreal views up there. Its well worth a few days trip.
> 
> There are also some nice routes that I know of in Jura (Creux de Van) is one I have done myself which was really cool.
> 
> ...


Guess I should get off my backside and add some rides.
http://www.englishforum.ch/sports-fitness/14194-mountain-bike-mtb-tours-trails-switzerland.html

Come along to one of our Zurich Tuesday night rides. Plenty of Irish, English, Americans, Australians and even Swiss on them.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

yokine said:


> Guess I should get of my backside and add some rides.
> http://www.englishforum.ch/sports-fitness/14194-mountain-bike-mtb-tours-trails-switzerland.html
> 
> Come along to one of our Zurich Tuesday night rides. Plenty of Irish, English, Americans, Australians and even Swiss on them.


Yes you should. Hope you and Woodsie have fun tomorrow night.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Thanks guys. : )

My home camps is in Romerswil. I think he said there's a train about 20 minutes from his house. 

What type of riding do you do Tuesday nights? 

I'll be in CH starting around 25.08 (I arrive in Germany 20.08).

What type of conditions should I see late August/early-mid September in CH and IT? Right now I have 160 front and rear on my discs, but I'm guessing I'll need 180 on the front. And I run a 2.3 tire - will that be good enough? I can't go much bigger than a 2.3


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Oh, and how is the Swiss trains in comparison to IT trains with bringing bikes onboard? Same deal, better/worse?

In CH, which language do you think is most important to know? I already know a bit of French (I lived there last summer), but I've been working on Italian and German. Not sure which I should focus more time on.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

BohemianChris said:


> Thanks guys. : )
> 
> My home camps is in Romerswil. I think he said there's a train about 20 minutes from his house.
> 
> ...


Totaly depends on what kind of riding you want to do. Its all here!!!

On the Tuesday night ride we usually do about a 400m climb on fireroad and then drop back down the singletrail before going for a drink.

If you are planing on doing some riding in the alps then you will get away with a 160mm disc on the front, but a 180 would be better. There are some long descents over here, especially if your gonna use a lift at any point. I run 180mm front and back and find it fairly good so far.

As for tyres, I run 2.25's and again they are good for must of the riding I do. If you intend to use the lifts more then something heavier in about the 2.3-2.4 range might be good. A lot of the trails in the Alps are quite rocky so run a little extra pressure to avoid pinching.

As for trains in Italy, I think its similar to Switzerland, but if you have the bike in a bag its not an issue anyway. There are some trains that you are not allowed to bring bikes on in the Italian part of Switzerland, but they are marked on the timetable.

You can find out loads of train info for Switzerland here. http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Thanks.

Have you biked Zermatt by taking the lift? I thought I'd do a few days biking/skiing in Zermatt. Stockli is about half in CH than what it costs in America, and I need new SL skis anyways. Best thing about CH for Americans is the exchange is equal whereas the euro to dollar is pathetic. 

I plan on doing mostly point A to point B riding so I can see the countryside and the beauty along with singletrack, but I'd like to spend a week at Zermatt.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

I've biked in Zermatt, but not using the lift. They were pretty suspect about letting bikers on the lift until recently as far as I know. But that appears to have all changed. I have a singletrail map of the area and it looks like there are some possibilities and they will let you take your bike on a lot of the lifts. They seem to be getting into the whole biking vibe there, my girlfriend is even going to be doing a downhill camp there during the summer but I'm not invited! 

The summer skiing is fairly good there, I've been up there and done snowboarding and biking on the same day. It does take quite a while to get up to the glacier though so you'll have to get up early. 

Also in that general area there are loads of other little towns with lifts that take bikes. When I bought the bike maps for the region a few months back I couldn't believe what is available down there. I'll be checking it out for myself some weekend soon.


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## yokine (Aug 31, 2007)

BohemianChris said:


> What type of riding do you do Tuesday nights?


As Dave said, up the fire trail which is a 400m climb, then down this:







BohemianChris said:


> What type of conditions should I see late August/early-mid September in CH and IT? Right now I have 160 front and rear on my discs, but I'm guessing I'll need 180 on the front. And I run a 2.3 tire - will that be good enough? I can't go much bigger than a 2.3


That's generally a nice time of the year, though rain outs are always possible. I do more XC touring and ride a hardtail with a 160 Formula K18 front. I'm heavy enough and haven't had brake fade issues on routes such as the Uetliberg one above, though I'm not as fast as Dave


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

yokine said:


> though I'm not as fast as Dave


:blush: Dude, Shhh... people will start to think that I can ride. :yikes:


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

You guys seem rather interesting. I'm really looking forward to my trip. Would either of you be interested in a 3-4 day excursion somewhere? And where can I get some singletrack maps. My friend who owns a Swiss chocolate shop in the States recommends I bike CH (he said that is the best idea ever - somewhat insulting, hehe), and leave the bike in CH for when I go to Italy, but he said that could be his own personal bias. I know there are crime problems in IT, but I think riding the Amalifi Coast (among other places) would be amazing.

He also said there are about 15 major bike paths that go from each end of CH?

How fast are you guys going in that video? 

And there's no biking allowed in the national parc?

I'm on a Blur, btw. 100mm front, 115mm rear. 160 magura brakes now, but will probably put a 180 on the front.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

Single trail maps are here. www.singletrailmap.ch, sorry the site is in German but you can translate it through google translate. They are available in pretty much any bike shop and some bookshops in Switzerland. Not sure yet how my time will be around then to take some time off, but if your in Zurich on a Tuesday come by and meet us anyway, can certainly show you some routes on the maps.

That video isn't us!!! But there are a few I have made in other places in Switzerland floating around somewhere on youtube.

There is no biking in the National park but there is a 140km 4000hm tour that you can do around it, I'm planning on doing over a few days at some point this year, just don't know when yet.

As for the Blur, no problems, I've ridden everything on a hardtail and on my old 100mm travel Trek. My Girlfriend rides a Blur too, but the LT version with 140mm.

I'd say you don;t need to worry about the bike. You'll be good and you'll find some wicked trails over here.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

I'm saddened to realise that listening to outdated shitty American music isn't just a French problem. ; )


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## yokine (Aug 31, 2007)

BohemianChris said:


> I'm saddened to realise that listening to outdated shitty American music isn't just a French problem. ; )


Agreed. Very diplomatic waiting till after we denied the video was ours 

The national cycling and mountain biking routes are on this website:
http://www.veloland.ch/en/welcome.cfm

Go to routes and then scroll across the icons at the top to choose cycling/MTB/rollerblading etc. Yes, rollerblading routes  Actually this site has been massively improved since the last time I looked at it.

But for more detail the singletrack maps Dave mentioned are the go.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

yokine said:


> Agreed. Very diplomatic waiting till after we denied the video was ours
> 
> The national cycling and mountain biking routes are on this website:
> http://www.veloland.ch/en/welcome.cfm
> ...


Beware most of these marked MTB routes are just fire roads with dismally short sections of single trail.


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## yokine (Aug 31, 2007)

ir12daveor said:


> Beware most of these marked MTB routes are just fire roads with dismally short sections of single trail.


Yep, start with the ones rated *difficult*. Like this one, and do it in 6 hours not over two days:
http://www.mountainbikeland.ch/en/routen_detail.cfm?id=315726&tour=route


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

yokine said:


> Agreed. Very diplomatic waiting till after we denied the video was ours


I actually missed that post. We must have posted at the same time. ;p

In France, when I lived there last year (Aix-en-Pce) every song that was popular in America 5-6 years ago was blaring from boom boxes. Some nights I didn't even want to leave for the fear of hearing Brittany Spears.

It twas meant as a joke. ;p



> The national cycling and mountain biking routes are on this website:
> http://www.veloland.ch/en/welcome.cfm
> 
> Go to routes and then scroll across the icons at the top to choose cycling/MTB/rollerblading etc. Yes, rollerblading routes  Actually this site has been massively improved since the last time I looked at it.
> ...


Thanks for all the links; I'll take a look this weekend, or later in the week at them. My Swiss friend gets back from Germany this weekend, so I'll have him do the translating is need be. ; )


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## Goatrak (Jan 13, 2004)

*Bag*

We did a 3 week biking vacation in Switzerland in 05, and used the train system to travel between 4 different base locations, Zermatt being one of them. I would second the suggestion of using a bag put your bike in while traveling on the train. It's then treated as carry on luggage, which usually can be put at one end of the car your on, and it saves you from paying the extra fee for bikes. The bag doesn't have to be much. Before I went, I took a couple of bed sheets and sewed them up to make a bag. Primarily I was going to use this to transport the bike into my room at night if there were no storage facilities where we stayed. But, I found out, this was sufficient to qualify it as baggage on the train. Basically, the front wheel comes off, bungy cord it to the frame, turn the handle bars sideways, stuff it in the bag, and safety pin the top. Very quick and simple. Not to mention it's a very light and small bag when not in use. Photo is attached. We really enjoyed Zermatt, especially the run downvalley, up and over Gbididum(sp?) pass, down to Brig, then take the train back.


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## ephie (Jul 7, 2005)

Hey.

Are you still doing the rides and will you be doing them into November?

I'm coming back to Suisse on the 30th and will be there until November 6th.

And can you recommend any place in/close to Basel where I can ride?

And is it impossible to do some all mountain riding at Zermatt at this time (cable car up, bike down) due to the weather? I'm guessing it's cutting it close and I can't find out any info on the zermatt.ch site vis-a-vis mountain biking/cable cars. Or is there any other place where I can cycle down, take a cable car up in early November? I don't care if it's only a 300 meter descent, I just want nice views and a fun time.

I didn't take my bike on my last holiday due to some shipping glitch, but am flying Swiss so I can bring my bike and skis along free. 

And before I forget, on IC trains is it okay to bring your bike and put it in the front of the car, or only on IR, and Regional trains?

Thanks


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## R12 (Apr 14, 2008)

Last post to this thread was a few months ago, but anyone know if there will be group rides in 09 such as those of Uetliberg? I live about 20 minutes from Zürich and perhaps could be an option for the weekends.


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## ir12daveor (May 17, 2007)

Check out www.englishforum.ch any group rides on Uetliberg will be posted there. Maybe an occasional weekend tour from time to time too.


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