# Older full suspension bikes still in use. Pre- 2010'



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mods please don't move this to the Vintage forum. The reason I put it here is there are a lot of peeps that don't frequent the vintage forum but come here.

*So if you have an older pre-2010' full suspension bike still in use post up some photos and a write up.*

Here's my 2001' built in 2002' INTENSE UZZI-SL. Used regularly since day one. A few component face lifts over the years but the frame has been through a beating and keeps on ticking. I chalk it up to the fact that back then Intense were in house welded by hand. Built in the U.S.A. with pride, using Easton taper walled 6061 tubing. A tough bike that in it's day was at the top of suspension technology and design wise still viable in today's world. The fork and shock are a bit outdated but still work great and the 4-Bar Link suspension design is still considered a great design.

The frame itself cost $2000 even way back then. 
A build up from there.





























*^^^^This frame has adjustable geometry / top tube length.*
My seat mast setting is in the middle position. I set it that way when I first got it and have left it in that position. I find it the best position for a happy medium between climbing and descending. A great idea of Intense to make the top tube length and geometry adjustable with 3 holes of adjustment on the seat mast, and 2 holes on the frame? A combination of which gives you 6 different options in adjustability.

Frame: 2001' Intense UZZI-SL 
Rear shock: FOX Vanilla RC
Fork: FOX Vanilla RLC 125 mm
Brakes: Hope Mini hydro 165 mm rotors / front gothic.
Shifters: SRAM XO Trigger
Rear der: SRAM XO 
Front der. XT
Crankset: XTR 3x9
Cassette: XTR
Chain: XTR
Wheels: Mavic 729 alloy spokes red nipples - tubes
Hubs:Chris King / Rear with Fun Bolts through axle.
Front wheel with Salsa Skewer
Tires: Currently Kenda Nevs. 2.35 x 26" tubes
Seat-post: Crank Brothers Joplin adjustable with remote.
Salsa quick release seat-post. 
Seat: SD gel / titanium rails / Intense embroidered insignia. 
Headset: Chris King
Stem: Thomson
Bars: Easton Monkey Lite / Carbon
Grips: ODI Lock Ons / Intense Grips.
Pedals: Time ATAC XC Titan / Carbon Titanium.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DSCF1793 by mtbikernate, on Flickr

2003 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR

Due for a suspension bearing overhaul and general tear down/cleaning. New seals and wipers on the fork/shock, etc. I replaced the headset and bb, as well as the cables and brakes all last year. As of November, it's my secondary bike/loaner.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*2007 Giant Trance*









First generation Trance had 4.2 inches travel.

This was a frame only purchase.

Fork: RS Revelation w/U-Turn run at 130 mm
Shox:Fox RP23
Drivetrain: XT - 2x9
eThirteen Bash Guard
Chain: XT
Pedals: Time ATAC Aluim
Brakes: Magura Louise FR
Headset: Cane Creek
Bars: Easton Monkey Lite Carbon
Post: Thomson
Stem: 60mm Easton
Saddle: WTB
Rims: DT Swiss XR 4.2D converted to Stans tubeless
Spokes: DT Swiss
Hubs: DT Swiss 240
Tires: Specialized 2.3

The bike is still my main ride but will be replaced in another month by a SC TBLTc. However, I'm giving it to my son so it still has a lot of life left in it.


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

My '01 or '02 FSR XC LogFlogger. It didn't see much use for 10 years as I decided to just keep riding my '93 Cannondale M1000 after I bought this on a whim. Didn't like this rear suspension as much as I thought that I did when I bought it.

It did have a short 2 month stint as my go to bike last year after I quit smoking. It became my backup again when I went fat.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

I remember those Intenses. Great looking bikes. The first one I actually saw in real life was coming down Trail 401 in Crested Butte. Living out here in Hawaii, I don't get to see a lot of "new" or "current stuff".

I still have but rarely ever ride my 1998 Psycle Werks Wild Hare around.









And I still ride my 2007 Turner 5 Spot regularly.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Kamuela, Hawaii? My brother/sister-in-law just put a bid in for a house there this morning? I will be visiting a fair amount in the future. Can I get some ride info when the time comes? Aloha


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## Ciclistagonzo (Dec 10, 2001)

My '01 Ventana La Bruja, Generation 1 has seen regular use every year including being the goto Mammoth Bike up until last year. 
160mm travel front and rear, 203mm Front Rotor, 180 rear. Mostly SRAM gear from an '07 refurbish.
.


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## Darth Pinche (Feb 19, 2013)

Lots of FSR love here! Here is my 2001 Specialized Enduro that I have been riding since I bought it new. Love this thing! I have upgraded most of it, with the main bits being a BETD linkage, a new Manitou Metel platform shock and a Manitou Minute fork. I also recently went 1x9 with a Raceface NW 30T chainring. But the frame,, bearings, hubs, crank and XT rear d/r are original. The next upgrade might is probably a dropper post.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

*Giant NRS 1 Composite* 2004



Fork: Rockshox reba race
Shox:RP2
Drivetrain: 3x9 XT
Chain:XT
Pedals: shimano SPD
Brakes:Elixir 180mm front and rear
Bars: 810mm funbars
Stem: 60mm
Saddle: WTB
Rims: DT Swiss X430
Hubs: XT
Tyres:wtb velociraptor

*Iron Horse team Sunday* 2006....a work in progress



Boxxers
Tioga 2.3DH tyres
X9 mech close ratio
760mm Giant bars

*Commencal Meta 55* 2010...so its just in the door?



Fork: Fox float 32's qr
Shox:RP2
Drivetrain: 1x10 XT 16t & 40t oneup
Chain:XT
Pedals: shimano M545 
Brakes:SLX 180mm front and rear
Bars: 760mm Fatboys
Stem: 60mm
Saddle: SDG
Rims: Mavic 819
Hubs: DT Swiss
Tyres: Schwalbe Dirty dan ready for winter tubeless


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## sennaster (Sep 21, 2006)

Recently decomissioned my 2007 Turner Sultan to put my I9s on a new Kona Process and the Loop on my SS.

However I'm in the process of building it back up for my father-in-law with a couple parts he purchased ( RS Recon and WTB wheels ) and the X9 bits that were already on the bike.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

Not the best picture of it, but here's my 2008 KHS XC605 that I used up until 6 months ago. Sold it...want it back.


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## scoon (Aug 26, 2005)

Still on 2005 Heckler.....


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DJ, you just wanna show off that dog. Here's an old one. My girlfriend rides it now.


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## jamescbrennan (Dec 21, 2007)

My 2008 Turner Highline

Full write up under the Turner forum - Rebirth of a Highline
http://forums.mtbr.com/turner/rebirth-highline-946893.html


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## scumdog (Dec 26, 2014)

Here's my 98 Cannondale Super V 800. Been my go to bike since I bought it while living in Norway in 99. Since then I've upgraded to a ~2000 Jekyll rear swing arm (gained travel) and a gen 1 lefty.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Darth Pinche said:


> Lots of FSR love here! Here is my 2001 Specialized Enduro that I have been riding since I bought it new. The next upgrade might is probably a dropper post.


I love the older FSR bikes. You might find it tough to get a dropper in there. I want one for my missus' 05 Enduro Comp but only the Specialized 75mm Command has got a chance of fitting.

As for riding older bikes I've only just retired my 04 Enduro SX. What is weird is the geometry and travel (I put bigger forks and a longer shock on the SX) is very close to my new bike. The biggest difference is the weight new bike is 3kg lighter. But it's just a capable.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

gmats said:


> I still have but rarely ever ride my 1998 Psycle Werks Wild Hare around.
> 
> View attachment 979644


That is a beautiful bike. I always wanted one of those. Let me know if you ever want to sell it!


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Ventana La Bruja


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## JimmyPajero (Oct 19, 2014)

I've a 2005 sworks epic, absolutely love it, very light, pretty aggressive position and very pedalable. I bought it S/H and I think it was built in 2009 with a NOS frame. It has SRAM x0, magura MT6 and carbon bars. Can't seem to post a pic, think its because I'm a noob!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Since someone else posted a 2010 bike, I'll share my wife's.

2010 Santa Cruz Blur XC Carbon.
Full XTR 2x10 drivetrain.
XTR Race brakes
DT Swiss Tricon wheels
Fox Float RP23 shock
Fox Float RL fork

we got it used a couple years back and she absolutely loves this bike. Will probably be keeping it service for a long time. She wants a wheel upgrade for it, so looking at building up a set of Purple I9 hubs to match the other ano bits.


DSCF1811 by mtbikernate, on Flickr


2010 Santa Cruz Blur XC Carbon by mtbikernate, on Flickr


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold, nice! Glad to hear she loves it. That top photo matches the bikes model name.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

2001 SC Superlight
2008 Intense Spider 29er.


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## TDK08 (Jan 30, 2014)

Here is my 2005 Stumpjumper in its natural element due to recent rains. Its had an upgrade or three. Its also about to get a set of Pure XM wheels and Manitou Marvel.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Just sold my 2005 horst link 5spot to a guy who intendes to ride it very regularly.








And my current bike is a 2010 5spot, so I guess it makes the cut, just. Certainly feels old with the geometry, straight head tube, QR rear end, but that is all forgotten once it's moving...


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## blkangel (Aug 8, 2014)

Just built this up for my son. Picked up the frame off ebay and swapped most of the parts off his old bike onto this frame.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Rev Bubba said:


> Kamuela, Hawaii? My brother/sister-in-law just put a bid in for a house there this morning? I will be visiting a fair amount in the future. Can I get some ride info when the time comes? Aloha


Sure thing. PM me, there's some good technical riding around here.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

mountainbiker24 said:


> That is a beautiful bike. I always wanted one of those. Let me know if you ever want to sell it!


Thanks. Yes, it's been a great bike and when they basically went out of business, I acquire some spare sets of bushings etc. I still ride it from time to time. In fact, last year took it on a 46 mile jeep road ride.


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## Leonets (Jan 2, 2009)

Prophet 2007
Upgrade last year with mono ring
Weight 12kg
Revelation fork and crank iodine wheels


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## zaisaroni (Jul 21, 2014)

Dirtjunkie, are you the one I was talking to on the FB bike lean group?










2000 or 2001 Intense Uzzi SL. Bought the frame last summer for $100, these things were my favorite back when I was in high school. I was looking to build a FS bike and return to MTB big time. I found an early Fox Vanilla R that was a great match, and then threw a bunch of new stuff at it, scoring some awesome deals. All Shimano and Raceface!

2001 Intense Uzzi SL
Fox Vanilla R 130mm
Shimano Deore XT drive train 3x9 (25th Anniversary).
Shimano MT65 wheels
Shimano SLX brakes + Centerlock rotors
Shimano/Pro seat
Raceface post, stem, gold turbine bars, grips.
Specialized Zee cage: was gold and side load.


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## Darth Pinche (Feb 19, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> DJ, you just wanna show off that dog. Here's an old one. My girlfriend rides it now.


My buddy rides a Foes now but had that same bike. He had it powered coated tiffany blue and his wife now shreds on it!


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## blown240 (Nov 4, 2009)

Here are a couple of mine:

07 Yeti 575, this is my main bike:










95 Stumpjumper FRS Sport, this bike is on my trainer and gets used all the time:










And Finally a 95 M1 in its old, and current form:

old










current


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## bbob (May 21, 2014)

Mostly lurker. But here is my 2001 ish Gary fisher suger. Mostly not stock.

Sorry for the non drive pictures


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

Here's my 2000 Cannondale Super V700SX. I rode the hell out of it last season and cracked the rear swing arm. Here's the old swing arm version:


Here's with the replacement swing arm. I haven't ridden it yet this season.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

zaisaroni said:


> Dirtjunkie, are you the one I was talking to on the FB bike lean group?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope!
Nice ride though you're going to love it. You bought the frame for $100, now that's amazing to me. The frame new cost $2000 and with my build 
it's up close to 6K. I'm pondering my brain trying to give you some advice on this bike having owned mine since new.

But there's nothing over the years that has popped up of any warning to convey. Mines a large frame and I'm 6'0" tall. My seat mast setting is in the middle position. I set it that way when I first got it and have left it in that position. I find it the best position for a happy medium between climbing and descending. A great idea of Intense to make the top tube length and geometry adjustable with 3 holes of adjustment on the seat mast. A combination of which gives you 6 different options in adjustability.

Oh and by the way your frame is a 2000'. The last year for the polished rear triangle and seat tower. Plus the graphics are 2000'. Mines a 2001' and the only differences in those two years was the polished bits and graphics, here's another couple shots of my 2001'. 















And a close up of the adjustable geometry / top tube length.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Discrimination! I can't post my 2010 hardtail... 

Good thread DJ.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rod said:


> Discrimination! I can't post my 2010 hardtail...
> 
> Good thread DJ.


Just do it, I won't tell.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

If you won't tell, then here goes.

2010 XTC 29. I was worried about aluminum fatigue until I saw some of these older bikes. Gets a few thousand miles on it each year.

A pic basically new.









A picture of me after a crash over the hill looking up at the bike.









Changed every part on the bike except for the frame and fork.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nice bike Rod, I seem to recall watching a video with that middle photo being the main scene.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

My 07-ish Wraith Sofaking Jr.










08 Sinister Shenanigan










Got an 06 DHR that only gets dusted off a couple times a season, now that I'm old and suck at road trips. 
:madman:


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Here is my 2004 SX. I think they were always frame only. It's seen several incarnations, and I rode everything on it. 
About 16kg/35lb, 150mm front and rearish.


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## FPtheBored (Oct 15, 2014)

Needed to make some room in the garage and gave it to a friend who is currently mtbless. He's psyched and I'm psyched to have someone using it. I loved that bike, 2004 Kona Stinky.


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## borbntm (May 4, 2011)

*Older full suspension bikes still in use. Pre- 2010*









2008 Giant Trance X2.......W/ newly installed Stan's Flow Wheel set.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

blown240 said:


> Here are a couple of mine:
> 
> 07 Yeti 575, this is my main bike:
> 
> ...


Wow you took a classic Intense M1 and made it into a fat bike. Pretty cool but that thing in it's original form could go in a DH museum. The M1 was the bike that blew the DH circuit away in the mid 1990's to early 2000's. Intense owned the DH circuit back then.


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## CanmoreAussie (Apr 5, 2015)

Some great older bikes here, awesome! I'll add to the list too then.

'09 Stumpjumper FSR Elite, with a few changes:
60mm stem and 740mm bars, with Esi silicone grips
XT hubs with Mavic 717 rims
XT Shadow+ derailleur, shifter, chain, and 11/36 10sp cassette 
RaceFace 32t narrow/wide front ring
XT spd pedals
Easton carbon seat post
Specialized Ground Control tires mounted tubeless

I'm gathering parts to add a 42t cog to the cassette, for those big days when the legs have had enough!
Also contemplating adding a Giant dropper post....


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm not sure if I should be sad or not that 2010 is 'old'. I mean, my bike is an '07, but I don't consider it 'old'. I will admit it helps my perception that the only thing left of my bike from what rolled off the showroom floor is the aluminum tubing. Literally everything else has been replaced over time- even the rubber grommets where the cables exit the rear triangle. 

There's some rarefied air here on MTBR when a bike that's entering it's 5th season is a candidate for 'please don't call me vintage' status.
All the same- there's some sweet rides here. Beautiful bikes. 

The Intense 'Fat-Bike' is ridiculously awesome.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah, love the M1. I had a 2001 - wasn't anywhere near as cool as thing thing though.


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## Shrumple (Dec 16, 2008)

*Cool thread.*

Both my bikes. Owned since new.

2002 Turner RFX (it's a pig, but still SO fun to ride) and 2009 Turner Flux.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

*2007 cannondale rush*







2007 Cannondale Rush. Shimano XT 3x9 drivetrain, Mavic 819 rims with Continental x-king/mountain king tires. This is my main ride. Also building a ball burnished Jekyll with a carbon lefty. I guess you could say I like the old Cannondale single pivot bikes.

This is an older picture when it has Crossmarks and the FSA crank.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Cool thread. Anyway, my 08 Niner RIP9.








A great handling, and super comfortable bike. I don't ride her as much since I live in Southeast Michigan and 
120mm of travel is a tad much for the terrain. I mostly ride ss rigid now. But as much as I go back and forth about selling her for peanuts, I think just keep her around. Sometimes a nice, soft ride is nice!

I'm thinking about using this one much more this summer. I do worry about fork and shock failure. At this point if I can't repair these items cheaply, it could make the whole bike a gonner. My rear shock does have some top out clunk it seems, so that's a bummer. But we'll see how she does this summer! Good forks that still work with 1 1/8th steerers are not exactly everywhere anymore.


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## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

She had her 10th birthday this year, 2005 prophet.

Currently the only original parts are the cranks and frame. New rear shock, bars, and 1x10 since this photo. Just had an amazing ride on it yesterday.


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'm not sure if I should be sad or not that 2010 is 'old'. I mean, my bike is an '07, but I don't consider it 'old'. I will admit it helps my perception that the only thing left of my bike from what rolled off the showroom floor is the aluminum tubing. Literally everything else has been replaced over time- even the rubber grommets where the cables exit the rear triangle.
> 
> There's some rarefied air here on MTBR when a bike that's entering it's 5th season is a candidate for 'please don't call me vintage' status.
> All the same- there's some sweet rides here. Beautiful bikes.
> ...


Exactly what I was thinking! Six months ago I was on a '05 thinking it was not that old. My 'old' bike is a 2000 Jamis Dakar, still gets ridden by my 12 yr old too.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ARandomBiker said:


> I'm not sure if I should be sad or not that 2010 is 'old'. I mean, my bike is an '07, but I don't consider it 'old'. I will admit it helps my perception that the only thing left of my bike from what rolled off the showroom floor is the aluminum tubing. Literally everything else has been replaced over time- even the rubber grommets where the cables exit the rear triangle.
> 
> There's some rarefied air here on MTBR when a bike that's entering it's 5th season is a candidate for 'please don't call me vintage' status.
> All the same- there's some sweet rides here. Beautiful bikes.
> ...





jim c said:


> Exactly what I was thinking! Six months ago I was on a '05 thinking it was not that old. My 'old' bike is a 2000 Jamis Dakar, still gets ridden by my 12 yr old too.


Would you guys like me to change the title?
Maybe something like,*Slightly / moderately to very used full suspension rigs enquire within".*


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## cdkarp (Nov 6, 2010)

I built my Trek Fuel 100 in 2009 and have finished Leadville 100, Gravel Worlds, and Mohican 100 3 times on this bike.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

No pics, still pedal an '05 Kona Dawg Supreme. Built up nice with some Hadley hubs, takes a beating, no complaints.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Good to see some Prophets getting posted. Until very recently, I was riding a '08 Prophet:









The only thing original left was the frame, top cup of headset, and derailleur hanger.

Rest of mods:
'12 Fox 32 RLC 150mm
Custom tuned Fox CTD Kashima rear shock
Easton EA90 wheels
2.4 Continental Mountain King tires
Sram X9 2x10 cranks
Shimano XT brakes
WTB Vigo saddle
Sram x7 shifters and x9 derailleurs


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

2008 Santa Cruz LTS from todays ride, 2.75 Dirt Wizard tires are BALLER


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## heartland (Oct 1, 2009)

2008 Trance
It's kind of a hodge-podge of new and old parts. 
3x9 LX/XO drive train.
XT brakes. 
SLX/Arch wheels
Connect dropper post. 
Recon U-turn fork.

Puts a smile on my face everytime.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

jim c said:


> Exactly what I was thinking! Six months ago I was on a '05 thinking it was not that old. My 'old' bike is a 2000 Jamis Dakar, still gets ridden by my 12 yr old too.


I think 2000 is fair. Won't be long before the youngest MTBR members were born around that time. 
I have a Specialized Stumpjumper M2 comp from 97 that's in a slow transition to singlespeed. But it's not FS, so I'll leave it out of this thread.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Would you guys like me to change the title?
> Maybe something like,*Slightly / moderately to very used full suspension rigs enquire within".*


I like that.

Since I neglected to post a pic above:

my 07 Prophet
Fox Float 32 140mm fork,
Fox RP3 PUSH'd shock 
Vuelta Montanga Lite wheels (ghetto tubeless w/ homebrew)
30x11-42 drivetrain: RaceFace N/W, Wolftooth, RADr cage, XT RD
Deore Hydraulic brakes
720mm Chinese Carbon Bars and 80mm stem (Oh the horror!)
Gravity Dropper Post, SDG Aliso Ti Saddle

28.2 lbs with platforms


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

'96 Turner burner XCE, '98 Turner Stinger.

The stinger is a 23# bike with 3" f/r travel. Gets about 14 miles per sandwich. Purdy sweet ride with Macpherson strut rear. Still roaming the Rockies...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

BansheeRune said:


> '96 Turner burner XCE, '98 Turner Stinger.
> 
> The stinger is a 23# bike with 3" f/r travel. Gets about 14 miles per sandwich. Purdy sweet ride with Macpherson strut rear. Still roaming the Rockies...


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm puttin' up! 

Geez!

'96 is in the foreground, '98 is in the back.
Closeup of the mac strut.
'06 SixPack

There ya go, bubble nuked!!:thumbsup:


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

When I got back into mountain biking after almost 20 years away, I went to the store and bought this. I was psyched because back in the day, Mongoose had a good name. I used this 2009 Teocali Elite for 2+ years, then bought my current ride, but I still have this for backup. Have to say, for what it cost me, and for all the fun miles I've gotten from it, I have nothing but good to say about the bike.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRun, I think you've got your years mixed up. Isn't the one[in the background] with the blue fork and the Mac Strut the 96'? Or I could be wrong.

A good friend of mine in San Diego had that exact bike with the Strut in the mid nineties.

All Sweet machine / s.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

The Stinger is in background, it is a '98. I drove Dave nuts when he found out it's weight. Also played hell getting the rims out of mavic. 2 pair of rims showed up 3 months after disappearing in shipping. 3rd shipment arrived on time. So there are 2 wheelsets and 1 pair of never built rims. '96 I was working for Bicycle Service Center when I built the Burner XCE.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> The Stinger is in background, it is a '98. I drove Dave nuts when he found out it's weight. Also played hell getting the rims out of mavic. 2 pair of rims showed up 3 months after disappearing in shipping. 3rd shipment arrived on time. So there are 2 wheelsets and 1 pair of never built rims. '96 I was working for Bicycle Service Center when I built the Burner XCE.


Sounds like you scored some free rims. So how much does the Stinger weigh? Sub #24 I would imagine.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Stinger is just a fuzz under 23#. Took a chunk outta my pocket to do it tho'. 
It gets 14 miles per sandwich, far better than my fatty!
I was amazed when rims came raining down! Mavic screwed the pooch...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> Stinger is just a fuzz under 23#. Took a chunk outta my pocket to do it tho'.
> It gets 14 miles per sandwich, far better than my fatty!
> I was amazed when rims came raining down! Mavic screwed the pooch...


A sub 23# full squish, you can't beat that. If we ever ride together I'll just throw a 10# weight in your pack to make it even.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanx DJ! :madmax:

Gotta love it! I have had some SS riders look it over at the trail head, and flip a table cause it's suspension..and gears, and lighter than their SS's. Yay! Needless to say, they kicked ass on the trail. Doh,


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Ladmo said:


> When I got back into mountain biking after almost 20 years away, I went to the store and bought this. I was psyched because back in the day, Mongoose had a good name. I used this 2009 Teocali Elite for 2+ years, then bought my current ride, but I still have this for backup. Have to say, for what it cost me, and for all the fun miles I've gotten from it, I have nothing but good to say about the bike.
> 
> View attachment 981551


i almost got one of those in 2009 and the Khyber elite was also a possibility.....one might find its way into the shed yet


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bansheerune said:


> thanx dj! :madmax:
> 
> Gotta love it! I have had some ss riders look it over at the trail head, and flip a table cause it's suspension..and gears, and lighter than their ss's. Yay! Needless to say, they kicked ass on the trail. Doh,


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I love my 08 kona dawg. I tried some new bikes and they didnt seem that much different, or better. I wish it was tapered, but only for fork availability.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Just have to love the quickly changing standards. Good Lord!
Axle sizes, thru axle, BB30, English, Spanish...

It will be too long a list! lol Anything to try to perfom a wallet extraction on us.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> I love my 08 kona dawg. I tried some new bikes and they didnt seem that much different, or better. I wish it was tapered, but only for fork availability.


you might want to measure your bottom headset size and head tube size.....if you put an external bearing type on the bottom and a standard 1"1/8 on top....you can fit a tapered fork....it will raise the front about 10mm with the bearing 

i have the same issue with my Commencal i want Pikes on it Bad


----------



## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

09 Pivot mach 5

Love my ride


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I was all ready to be annoyed at someone calling 2010 an "old" bike, but I see lots of good old bikes here.
Since Iron Horse has not been represented I'll post mine, but it never got ridden like my other bikes so it has survived now to where my wife may inherit it (if she likes it). Test ride pending.
This bike pulled a lot of off-road trail-a-bike miles, as well as some serious rides in PA and GA.
This was my first foray into FS bikes so I went low/mid-range on the budget. ~29#

'08 MkIII
Low-budget Rocky Mountain Bicycles bolt-on rear hub w/ Rhyno Lite rim replaced factory wheel
BB7s replaced Juicy 3's
The 69* HA and 130mm of travel w/ DW*Link put it right between XC and AM. Climbs very well, descends well enough to scare me. It's a veritable La-Z-Boy recliner compared to my other bikes.

















It was also my snow bike 'til I got a fatty.









-F

PS - this is the *only* bike I've ever had that did not give me some kind of suspension issue. Recon fork is solid. Monarch rear shock rebuilt last year.


----------



## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

My 1997 Mercedes Benz Amp B4. I had a similar bike in 1995 and nostalgia got the best of me last year. Found this one and had to have it. It's fun to pull out every now and then just to have some fun on. I also like to prove a point to the kids on my high school mountain bike team that it isn't about the bike.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Classic!


----------



## jarhead22 (Feb 26, 2014)

this is either an 01 or 02 not sure but its my main ride


----------



## Carrera911xc (Jul 25, 2006)

My favorite bike out of all the bikes I've ever owned. Probably why I won't let go of it. It's an 06 IH Sunday that I managed to find as a new old stock frame in 2013. Threw a custom tuned Bos Stoy shock on the back and a 2012 Boxxer R2C2 on the front. Built it up with Zee/Saint drivetrain and Avid brakes. Added a works 1.5deg angleset and this bike is dialed!

All my buddies are always wanting to ride it whenever we're up at the bike park. About to replace those heavy kendas with tubeless Magic Marys. Best part is the total build is still under 2500 and the bike only has a season of riding on it.


----------



## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

1997 GT LTS-1....loved this, but it was time to move on....just sold it a few weeks ago.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Bokchoi,

I'm very torn on letting go of my '96 Turner Burner XCE. Turner will give $600.00 for the frame on trade in. So a new King Khan could be on the radar!


----------



## Rogueldr (Jul 30, 2007)

My '07 Jamis Dakar XCR. Still my main ride. I absolutely LOVE this bike. I've accumulated other bikes over the years but whether its my comfort/familiarity with this bike or just an ingrained bias, I always come back to my Jamis. The only real changes I've made were swapping out the stem and seatpost for Thomsons.


----------



## gzank6 (Aug 26, 2014)

my new to me 2008 Giant Trance X1, just bought it a month or so ago from a friend. Except for tires and tubes its stock. This is his pic, i've yet to take one on it as i'm enjoying riding it too much.


----------



## Local717 (Dec 10, 2010)

08 knolly DT fresh for 2015







Intense 5.5, 09 & Panzer DH, 07







And all 26"...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nice rides ^^^^


----------



## mdennett99 (May 28, 2013)

My new build.

2005 Iron Horse mkiii team


----------



## Vance in AK. (Apr 23, 2005)

About 2001 as I recall.
XT & XTR, & good old rim brakes (that work great!) I've had her since new (mostly built my self from components & new frame).
I hsdn't ridden in at least 3 yrs but finally got it out for a 11 mile road ride last week & a 4 mile trail ride this morning. Quads are killing me but I am hooked again!:thumbsup:
Question though. I want to get rid of the old Manitou forks that are on it. Looking at Rock Shox XC32s. They fit my budget well. Anyone with experience with them? Decent upgrade for the bucks?


----------



## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

I'm rebuilding a 2005 Iron Horse 7 Point 3 for bike park/shuttle riding. Haven't used it in a while, since I got a Pivot Firebird (which rides similarly but is lighter). got a new Marz Roco shock for cheap and a slightly used Lyrik RC2 DH for the front, as well as Avid Guide brakes and a Works Components 2 degree headset to slacken it out a bit. Going tubeless and some part changes should drop a few pounds off. Hoping to get it done before the snow melts up high. Looking forward to riding again.

Then










Now


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

That was a Turner design that was licensed to K2 back in the day.











Vance in AK. said:


> View attachment 986048
> 
> 
> About 2001 as I recall.
> ...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> That was a Turner design that was licensed to K2 back in the day.
> 
> View attachment 986059


I say don't sell it. :nono:


----------



## Neechy (May 3, 2015)

*2005 Gary Fisher King Fisher 1*

VitalMTB: May 3, 2015 Bike of the Day!
















Picked up a 2005 Gary Fisher King Fisher 1 off CL for $300. Turned out the stock Sherman fork was completely trashed, shock needed a new spring (idk why the dude needed a 650lb spring), seat needed replacement, seatpost was cut too short, bars were too narrow, brakes didn't work, chainguide roller was completely gone, brake discs needed to be upped from 160mm to 200mm, grips were trashed, one of the tires was 10 yrs old, and pedals wobbled on their axles.

Stripped down the frame and replaced everything except headset, rims/hubs, stem, cranks, derailleurs, and shifters.

New BB, pedals, chainrings, bash guard, saddle, seatpost, bars, grips, brakes, fork, cassette, chain, shock spring, brake discs, tires, tubes, rim tape, and custom graphics.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I say don't sell it. :nono:


You'd need a Purdy big crowbar to get my mitts off the Stinger after I'm dead, DJ! lol

It'd be the '96 XCE if I were to do a trade in.

Here's a link to the Turner lineage Lineage - Turner Bikes


----------



## White7 (Feb 9, 2015)

2002 FSR








2003 Heckler


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> You'd need a Purdy big crowbar to get my mitts off the Stinger after I'm dead, DJ! lol
> 
> It'd be the '96 XCE if I were to do a trade in.
> 
> Here's a link to the Turner lineage Lineage - Turner Bikes


Awesome chart, I used to live in San Diego and was there for 25 years. Just a half an hour from Turner headquarters. A good friend of mine was such a good rider and a loyal customer to Turner, he became great friends with DT. He helped test new prototypes for DT on several occasions.


----------



## jhoward7285 (Sep 8, 2014)

*2007 bmc tf02*









Got it off a guy never built a few years back. Even after demoing new bikes every time I visit a friend in Orange County I still enjoy it. Especially when I think about how much I've got into this vs the '15 Nomad I want.


----------



## 745373 (May 17, 2013)

Wow that BMC does not look like an '07! Beautiful bike! I love this thread, feel like an idiot for ever selling my '97 GT LTS-2....I miss that bike and all the time I spent re-greasing those rubber bushings before a ride. Good memories


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jhoward7285 said:


> View attachment 986587
> 
> 
> Got it off a guy never built a few years back. Even after demoing new bikes every time I visit a friend in Orange County I still enjoy it. Especially when I think about how much I've got into this vs the '15 Nomad I want.


So you bought the frame and parts off a guy that never built it?


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

My '09 Pivot Mach 429 is far from old or even "older". It features top technology design even by today's standards. Thank you very much.

Now, the rider, well that's different story but we are not here to talk about that.


----------



## Cobra8d (Aug 3, 2010)

2009 Mongoose Teocali, bought in 2010 still my main ride. Though not much left of the original components.


----------



## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

2009 Intense 951. I'd get a new DH bike except this one is still fun and fast even after all the crap I've put it through over the years.


----------



## Mallet21 (Sep 24, 2013)

2006 Epic Purchased in 2013...Updated the bar, stem, saddle, grips.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Here is my 1995 Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot which I run as a single speed. It's one of the best full suspension single speeds you can build.


----------



## greenery (Jul 9, 2009)

Intense M3 still used for DH. Always in various states of disrepair but still rips the DH.


----------



## seneb (Sep 30, 2006)

*1994 Stumpjumper FSR*

I recently rebuilt my 1994 FSR and it is still awesome. The springs in the fork are a bit interesting, so they'll probably be replaced with a Risse Racing GEM Cartridge.























Link to blog with more photos


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## blown240 (Nov 4, 2009)

Thats a cool StumpJumper. I have a 94 FSR Sport. I still have the original receipt and manual. Right now its the bike I leave on my trainer....


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Delete


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## GageGillings (Apr 24, 2012)

*2007 stumpy*

Still used almost daily. Upgraded the bars, stem, grips, rims, tires, saddle rotors and added a dropper. Still love the bike.


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

seneb said:


> I recently rebuilt my 1994 FSR and it is still awesome. The springs in the fork are a bit interesting, so they'll probably be replaced with a Risse Racing GEM Cartridge.
> 
> View attachment 987562
> 
> ...


RIGHT ON! I had the '95 model. Great bike. I have some photos somewhere and will post up.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bad mechanic said:


> Here is my 1995 Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot which I run as a single speed. It's one of the best full suspension single speeds you can build.
> 
> View attachment 987556


Nice! The old "sweet spot" suspension. The same suspension design was used on the Catamounts back in the day. Here's my brothers Catamount built up in 96' and still being ridden today.

This photo was taken a couple of months ago.


----------



## mantispf2000 (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm sorry I don't have a pic of it, however, I'd still be riding my '92/'93 Mantis ProFloater, if it wasn't stolen. Had that thing dialed to my liking. 23.8lbs. 

I wonder how beat-up it would be by now???

And I hope the maggot that stole it got a good face plant, as I had the brakes reversed/bubba-ed at the time.....


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Mantis Profloaters... Schwinn sweet spots. ..ahhhh the '90s!


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

I have been riding the Mantra a bit!


----------



## Ghstrder (Mar 28, 2014)

*2005 Jamis Dakar XC Pro 20th Anniversery Eddition*

As it was when I bought it in April of 2014:
View attachment 987720


As it is today:
View attachment 987723


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## FearLu (Jan 20, 2004)

I wanna' post my ancient bikes but they're so old I don't know their exact ages! Original SC Blur and SC Bullit anyone? Just how old are these things?


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## JackNicholls62 (Mar 9, 2014)

Diamondback XSL Trail (2004)

Bought the frame on ebay for 150 a couple years ago and built er up.

Just had the rear triangle off today and cleaned/regreased all the bushings. Good as new. Will be my go to for years to come. Got new shoes this week too! Always wanted racing ralphs and now the price has come down enough!

This is my go to ride.


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## Ghstrder (Mar 28, 2014)

I couldn't figure out how to post the pics like everyone else. Anyone have an answer for what I did wrong?


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## jcw_mtb (Apr 20, 2011)

*'97 Ellsworth, '03 Dean & '94 FSR*

for your consideration is my 1997 Ellsworth Truth. kit is a mix if vintage '90s bling & early 2k XT/XTR. original full bike was a craigslist purchase for 200 bones. this thing rides so much different than its predecessor, a 2003 Dean Ace 3.0.

shaved almost a full pound w/the the parts swap - 25.8 lbs as pictured.

also owned a '94 FSR Team back in the day - fun bike, but damn heavy!


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## Cavermatthew (Apr 9, 2015)

This is my 1999 GT XCR-3000. Fully upgraded with hydraulic discs, XT drivetrain, and new front fork. I built it from the ground up. The only original part is the rear shock. Picture taken before the new fork came. a little heavy, but great bike. Got to love the 90's.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Nice bike Rod, I seem to recall watching a video with that middle photo being the main scene.


Same trail, different crash lol.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Rod said:


> Same trail, different crash lol.


LOL I knew that was the same trail. I've got the memory of an elephant.

I couldn't tell you what I had for breakfast but I can remember what trail I saw in a video from clear across the country 3 months ago.


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## CBus660R (Jun 22, 2012)

Here's my '01 C-Dale Jekyll 600 bought as new leftover in the summer of '02 (replaced a stolen '98 Trek Y-11). Its all original save the tires and tubes. It was used primarily for casual rides on MUTs and only 3-4 MTB rides a year for most of it's life, but since a nice 9 mile loop was opened up real close to me in the fall of '12, it's hit the trail 1-2 times a week weather permitting. I've been holding out, but I do see a new MTB in the near future.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nice!


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I think they should be at least 10 years old to be worthy of an "Older FS" thread.

Here's my 2001 Hammerhead 100x still being ridden by my son. He's starting to out grow it a bit and I keep asking if he'd rather ride his mom's 2013 RM Altitude but he says he likes the HH better. One of the best bikes I've owned, and the only one I haven't sold off. Because of its classic lines I still think it looks good today. Titus kept with the clean double triangle looks and a sloping tt that is timeless.

Picture from 2004 when it got its first fork/shock upgrade with a Push. And last year at Sacramento Pass with my son riding it. He was 3 when I bought it.
(Argh. I hate the new picture posting restrictions. Click the link for the "back-in-the-day" beauty shot)

BTW: Great looing Uzzi Dirt Junkie. That was the first bike that really got my attention when I was first getting into mountain biking.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

TiGeo said:


> Mantis Profloaters... Schwinn sweet spots. ..ahhhh the '90s!


You missed post #109.


----------



## Kary (Feb 15, 2004)

*2005 Azure*

This is from a ride this past October. The bike is a 2005 Iron Horse Azure Expert.


----------



## Cobra8d (Aug 3, 2010)

*2006 Schwinn Rocket LTD*

My updated 2006 Schwinn Rocket LTD


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Nice bike Cobra, and that last photo sure looks familiar. Spring Valley possibly?


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## Cobra8d (Aug 3, 2010)

I am on top of the mountains between Otay Lakes and Proctor Valley, the body water is eastern most part of lake by the airfield.


----------



## 08_Yukon hard tail (Sep 14, 2008)

09 Giant Trance X2 new setup 27.5 front 50mm stem 750 wide bar


----------



## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Still my geared go to.


----------



## SeaHag (Jul 14, 2011)

*2006 Santa Cruz VP-Free*

This is my all mountain/freeride machine...a 2006 VP-Free 8" travel front and rear, running a 1x9 Shimano XT setup, Marzocchi 888rc up front, FOX DHX 5.0 coil on the rear, and Hayes Prime Pro brakes to make it stop. A KS Eten dropper post gives my legs full extension on the climbs and gets the seat out of my way when things get FUN.  If my 32x36 gear ratio isn't low enough, I push.  My new fatbike gets most of the XC duty anymore, but I'll never let my big hitter go.

This picture was from my first trip to the Black Hills of South Dakota last September.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nice dirt couch, SeaHag! I couldn't let go of mine either. The fatty is the one with the odometer changing daily tho'.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cobra8d said:


> I am on top of the mountains between Otay Lakes and Proctor Valley, the body water is eastern most part of lake by the airfield.


I knew it looked familiar. :thumbsup:


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## Slowupfundown (May 28, 2015)

Still my favorite bike
2009 Specialized Pitch
40mm stem
720mm bars
reverb dropper post

This bike does everything, up, down, downhill parks, cross country adventures. I beat the crap out of it and it never lets me down.


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## brunomu (Jul 5, 2009)

I use to have a 2008 specialized pitch and sold to buy and enduro, the enduro is nice but i miss my pitch and buy the frame in e bay for cheap and build it, this is the perfect all mountain bike climb for hours go downhill the geometry is on spot feel like a glove to me, not shure what year is the frame but no more than 2010, still my favorite bike.


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## turky lurkey (Apr 6, 2013)

I just bought this '98 fsr as a frame only about a week ago, and have already built it up and ridden more than 50 miles of single-track on it. It's really fun bike. But, its proving difficult to find a rear shock to upgrade with that is exactly the same length as the stock one (6.25"x1.5"). Also, all the pivots seem to be in good shape now, but if I do decide/need to service them at some point it's looking to cost about $300.00 for a bearing upgrade kit from BETD.


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## seneb (Sep 30, 2006)

Turky - hit up Risse Racing. They're cool over the phone with questions and can either rebuild your shock or will be able to make you one of theirs to your specs. I had a great experience with them rebuilding my Fox Alps 4 and will get a GEM Cartridge for my Judy soon.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Cool bike! I'll bet it rides great. That seems pretty rich for a bearing kit. Bearings aren't exactly rocket science. The manufacturer bought them somewhere. I am not aware of any bike companies manufacturing there own bearings. Spend some cash on a micrometer and I'll bet you can find bearings when you need them.


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## turky lurkey (Apr 6, 2013)

seneb said:


> Turky - hit up Risse Racing. They're cool over the phone with questions and can either rebuild your shock or will be able to make you one of theirs to your specs. I had a great experience with them rebuilding my Fox Alps 4 and will get a GEM Cartridge for my Judy soon.


Cool, thanks. I ended up finding a good deal on a new (couple year old model) X-fusion shock, and I found a company that custom fabricates offset bushings. So even though the X-fusion is 1/4" longer than the stock shock I should be able set it up to basically keep the geometry of the bike unchanged.

I was very tempted to go with a Risse shock, but it would have been a little more expensive. And people really seem to be happy with the X-fusion 02 series shocks.


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## turky lurkey (Apr 6, 2013)

Crankyone said:


> Cool bike! I'll bet it rides great. That seems pretty rich for a bearing kit. Bearings aren't exactly rocket science. The manufacturer bought them somewhere. I am not aware of any bike companies manufacturing there own bearings. Spend some cash on a micrometer and I'll bet you can find bearings when you need them.


Ya, it is a lot for a bearing upgrade. Though looking at the website again I realized my estimate was a little high (I was counting one set of bearings twice). I think it's actually about $250. Which of course is still really high.

You might be right, I'm sure with the right effort and ingenuity I could come up with solutions on my own. Though I don't think it is quite as simple as taking out old bearings, measuring them and buying replacements. The original system, from what i've read, used a plastic bushing system of some sort. To replace the bushings with a bearing upgrade kit would require some fabrication of steel axles and finding appropriate bearings to work with the axles. For now though the pivots seem to be in good shape though, they feel tight and move freely when I remove the shock. So for all I know they may have been serviced or upgraded at some point. I guess I'll just keep dripping lube into the pivots and worry about it when I start to feel some slop in them or when i get the money and motivation to take them apart and try and upgrade.


----------



## turky lurkey (Apr 6, 2013)

Cobra8d said:


> My updated 2006 Schwinn Rocket LTD


Wow! That is a really nice looking Schwinn. I didn't realize they made such nice late model mountain bikes. I'm a big Schwinn fan.

Here are a couple of my Schwinns (forgive me if it is a total sin to post road bikes here, but I get too excited to stop myself when I see a nice Schwinn):

1965 Schwinn Super Sport


1973 Schwinn World Voyageur:


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## mammothpunks (Apr 30, 2006)

My '99 Schwinn 4-banger. Just put new brakes and drivetrain on.


----------



## MTBAlabama (May 22, 2015)

2006 Swchinn Rocket Comp.

2006 Schwinn rocket comp by Randall Cooper, on Flickr


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mammothpunks said:


> My '99 Schwinn 4-banger. Just put new brakes and drivetrain on.


Wow, that model wasn't a bad bike back in the day.


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## mammothpunks (Apr 30, 2006)

Rides awesome with the Marzocchi Jr T up front and Stratos Helix pro on rear. The Rock Shox that came on it were worthless.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mammothpunks said:


> Rides awesome with the Marzocchi Jr T up front and Stratos Helix pro on rear. The Rock Shox that came on it were worthless.


Those are pretty good shocks, I have two of them. To bad they went out of business.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

My brothers Catamount one of the "sweet spot' suspension designs from back in the day. Built up in 1996 and still being ridden today.

A few upgrades after the initial build. Like fork and wheel set, but everything else is from the original build. The company hand built frames out of Fort Collins Colorado. And after a 3 year run went under.


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## DrugStoreCowboy (Dec 23, 2014)

Schwinn S-30

It's a 1997 model, updated with newer components. 3x7 Shimano drivetrain. Works like a charm!


----------



## DrugStoreCowboy (Dec 23, 2014)

turky lurkey said:


> Wow! That is a really nice looking Schwinn. I didn't realize they made such nice late model mountain bikes. I'm a big Schwinn fan.
> 
> Here are a couple of my Schwinns (forgive me if it is a total sin to post road bikes here, but I get too excited to stop myself when I see a nice Schwinn):
> 
> ...


These are nice indeed! I've got my Schwinn posted further down the thread.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

DrugStoreCowboy said:


> Schwinn S-30
> 
> I believe it's a 1999 or 1998 model, updated with newer components. 3x7 Shimano drivetrain. Works like a charm!
> 
> View attachment 998163


Same "sweet spot" suspension design as my brothers Catamount I posted above yours.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Same "sweet spot" suspension design as my brothers Catamount I posted above yours.


I saw John Castelano riding an updated version awhile back in Annadel. He had it set up as a single speed 69er.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

As for me... When I can be coax'd off of my 2001 Schwinn Homegrown Hardtail (SS), I can be found on my 2003 Superlight. Maybe I need to try the current technology before knocking it, but the Superlight still works very well and still feels pretty relevant.


----------



## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)




----------



## EABiker (Jun 24, 2004)

My 06 KHS XC 204 with a 140mm Manitou fork, KS E-Ten dropper post and Crank Bros carbon bars. Still get the job done!


----------



## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

*2009 Gary Fisher HiFi Pro*

Great thread-I just started a thread over in 29er bikes about my 2009 GF HiFi Pro-it's been an awesome bike, and I've ridden it like crazy. It's never let me down, and I really don't need to replace it. (A few upgrades? Maybe, but spending thousands won't get me thousands' worth of improvements.)

Here's the trusty steed on Goodman Creek trail in Oakridge, OR:










I don't believe mountain bike "evolution" equals "continuous improvement." More like going in circles with an occasional bump up.

Are things like extended-range 1x10 drivetrains and thru-axles an improvement? Absolutely. But they aren't going to suddenly get me riding like a pro.

Scott


----------



## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

09 sx. most fun bike i own


----------



## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

I have a 2003 Trek Fuel 80...great condition and stock except for the Pilot fork had to be replaced with a XC 32 TK...it's up in my attic. It's from when they were still American made.

Every time I go up there to take out luggage or Christmas decorations or whatever I think "I need to take that bad boy out for a ride" but I never do. Someday.


----------



## wrinklefree (Jun 17, 2005)

Still rocking a 2006 Titus Moto-lite!


----------



## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

*2008 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp*

Imgur

riding this for at least a few more months!


----------



## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

Posted this in the new purchase thread, too...

Just scooped up this '05 Stab Supreme for bike park down hill duty.








Maiden run with me behind the bars should be this Sunday.


----------



## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

Nice man, I dig the patriotic paint!


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

bad mechanic said:


> Here is my 1995 Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot which I run as a single speed. It's one of the best full suspension single speeds you can build.
> 
> View attachment 987556


Love that bike! I have a 2001 Homegrown Hardtail (the only one with the IS rear brake mount) built as a SS. Was thinking about a Schwinn URT for a full sus. SS


----------



## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

2006 Scott Ransom Ltd.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Ah man I always wanted a ransom. I thought they all broke. How is yours riding? Can you still get the shock worked on?


----------



## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

bridgestone14 said:


> Ah man I always wanted a ransom. I thought they all broke. How is yours riding? Can you still get the shock worked on?


I'm mostly riding a Norco Range this year that I built, but that Ransom is still an awesome bike, and still in great shape. I put 8 years of intense riding on it. I never felt the urge to replace it during that time. Before that Ransom, I flipped bikes every 2 or 3 years max.

I had the shock serviced by a Scott service centre in Quebec 2 years ago after I blew it up on Mount 7. I believe it cost me $135 and only took 5 days from start to finish, including shipping both ways. The guy even re-decalled it. Scott knows how to do all the little things right. Fit and finish, and customer service - all impeccable.

And when I blew the shock up, it was user error. I pumped up (to 400 plus lbs, which was normal) the negative and positive chamber in the wrong order. I had some kind of oil squirting all over the place when I blew a bunch of seals (so to speak).

I was lucky on the frame integrity. I am 185 to 190 geared up, and this was the first production year for the Ransom. I understand that the bottom bracket area was beefed up in years 2 and on due to numerous failures of the first year models. Not sure what to say. In addition  to XC and AM duties, I rode that hard at Whistler, Revy, and Golden (Mount 7 lots). I guess I lucked out on the frame.

I still believe it is as close to art as bikes get. The frame is a timeless design - like a 911. To this day, it remains a thing of beauty. And it is one of the most efficient riding bikes I have ever owned. I never used that twinloc thingamajig. I always left it wide open, front and back. Full on plushness. For everything. It could haul serious a$$, up, down and everything in between.


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## Chadio (Jun 26, 2015)

Hmmmm.... one's definition of 'older' is quite a bit different from mine. Do any of us drive vehicles that are 'older' (pre 2010 )


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Chadio said:


> Hmmmm.... one's definition of 'older' is quite a bit different from mine. Do any of us drive vehicles that are 'older' (pre 2010 )


Yup! My newest are 2000. My oldest is a 1967. Jeez, I gotta update!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

chuckha62 said:


> Yup! My newest are 2000. My oldest is a 1967. Jeez, I gotta update!


That's awesome. With standards having changed multiple times over the years (BBs, head tubes, forks, brakes, etc. etc.), do you have problems getting parts for those bikes?


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

mtnbkrmike said:


> That's awesome. With standards having changed multiple times over the years (BBs, head tubes, forks, brakes, etc. etc.), do you have problems getting parts for those bikes?


Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the vehicle part of the question...

As for bikes, I have nothing newer than 2003 and I'm having a hard time finding a new 26" fork with QR and a non-tapered steer tube. So that part of it is becoming difficult.


----------



## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Talk to PUSH, they may be able to put some newer insides in an older fox fork.


----------



## peter.thedrake (Aug 6, 2009)

And those older fox forks are still pretty great if they've been maintained well. I'm running a F100x from 2002.

Marzocchi also made forks with v-brake studs for many many years. They have a reputation for being durable, but they tend to be pricey on ebay and it can be difficult to differentiate the nicer models from the steel spring boat anchors.


----------



## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm actually finding some good older Fox Floats on CL locally. One will pop up. As for V brakes, I ditched them years ago.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

peter.thedrake said:


> And those older fox forks are still pretty great if they've been maintained well. I'm running a F100x from 2002.
> 
> Marzocchi also made forks with v-brake studs for many many years. They have a reputation for being durable, but they tend to be pricey on ebay and it can be difficult to differentiate the nicer models from the steel spring boat anchors.


I'm still running the first year production run FOX fork as well. 
A 2002' FOX Vanilla - RLC and it's an excellent fork.:thumbsup:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bridgestone14 said:


> Talk to PUSH, they may be able to put some newer insides in an older fox fork.


I live 2 miles from PUSH.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Man, that's a good picture of your late dog!


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I think Dougal has one of those Intense bikes.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Man, that's a good picture of your late dog!


That's a kind gesture to my big loss.


----------



## Coiler34 (Jul 23, 2015)

*Kona Coiler Dee-lux*

















Kona Coiler Dee-lux, not sure if its an 05 or 06. Anyone know? I've never seen another black one with the stencil logo.

36 Talas converted to Vanilla
Sram x9 rd 
1x9
Avid Elixir 5's
Maxxis Mobsters 2.5" tubeless
On the heavy side, but it can handle anything you throw at it.


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## powdertrax (Oct 10, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> DJ, you just wanna show off that dog. Here's an old one. My girlfriend rides it now.


My riding buddy and friend of 30+ years is rolling one of these (had his first one stolen), but just today he said he wants a new bike (after tuning up my son's Kona)


----------



## mtbiker040 (Jul 11, 2010)

'08 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp

I have put almost 300 miles on it since May 3rd this year. It's going to be a little while before I can get a new bike so this is my trusty steed at the moment!!

Converted to 1x9 with 30tNW with 11-36t cassette, this has gotten me back in shape fast and helped me lose 27 lbs. so far!!

Took off those monster mudders a couple rides ago, it was like I disconnected a big anchor!


----------



## Offspring (Jan 29, 2006)

*1997 dbr 3.1*

I bought this new, built it up from the frame. Paid 275$. It's had at least 2 of everything on it. Mag 20's, still rocking the Ringle hubs, now it's a SS. it's a lot leaner and meaner since I bought my Nomad in '11. So light and a great all around and camping bike.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

So, what does everyone think the best late 90s fs frame is?
Figure it needs to be servisible with off the shelf parts and somewhat relevant design. I have a late 90s k2 evo that works but I don't know any better because I'm a ti/steel ht guy. Suppose single pivot put in the right location is a good start.


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## vaer (Aug 3, 2015)

*~1996 Santa Cruz Tazmon*

A little late to the thread, but I didn't see any Tazmon love here. I recently acquired an old Tazmon from my dad that he never rides (I've put more miles on it in the last 2 months than he has in the last 10 years). The Judy XC up front quit and I replaced it with an old Marzocchi Bomber


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

The Tazmon put Santa Cruz on the map. IIRC it was the basis for the Heckler, then the Superlight and it pretty much evolved from there. Great bike!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chuckha62 said:


> The Tazmon put Santa Cruz on the map. IIRC it was the basis for the Bullit, Heckler, then the Superlight and it pretty much evolved from there. Great bike!


Fixed that for you.

Not many of those were built either. Great bike for a mtb museum.


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## IJR (Dec 23, 2003)

08 or 09 vpfree



















Technically, I think this is a 2010 model but I got it in 09. SX trail










two for one, sx trail and my son on his 05 or so bullit


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## Flo Rida (Jul 5, 2008)

2005 Santa Cruz Heckler pictured with 2014 Hound Dog Mix


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Flo Rida said:


> 2005 Santa Cruz Heckler pictured with 2014 Hound Dog Mix
> 
> View attachment 1010418


Great shot!
All I can picture is a critter running by and your pooch taking chase. There goes your bike dragging behind.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

IJR said:


> 08 or 09 vpfree
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A vintage Santa Cruz frenzy if you will.


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## TAOS1 (Feb 5, 2013)

Cool thread! I dig older bikes...that M1 fat bike rules!

Here is my 2005 Santa Cruz Superlight;

XT shifters, upgraded to XT disc brakes
Raceface 32T chain ring to make it a 1x10
Fox Talas 1 fork, stuck at 140mm
Azonic DH bars from the 90's
My original Chris King headset from 1997
Ringle Moby seat post
Azonic seat
Vans grips

Fun bike, but I gave it to my son and I got a new bike. He rides it hard!


Also have a 1997 GT LTS DH
and a 1998 GT STS DH but those don't see the trail


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## melan47 (Nov 27, 2012)

1997 Haro Extreme EX2
2012 Form 








2015 Street Form(few more stickers and installed original 90's components)


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## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

Rad as [email protected] isn't my thing but that bike is truly awesome!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

melan47 said:


> 1997 Haro Extreme EX2
> 2012 Form
> 
> 
> ...


I'm confused on this: You state there's a 2012 & a 2015 Form???


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I'm confused on this: You state there's a 2012 & a 2015 Form???


You finally out of jail? Did you take your soap on a rope? Haha


----------



## boxman12 (Jun 13, 2004)

My 2001 or 02 KHS xc-304, bought frame-only and has been through roughly two of everything. Best upgrade was switching the fork and shock to air.


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## Mr Crudley (Jan 27, 2006)

Best thread ever.

Here is my unfashionable 02 Heckler that I've rode this morning with the pre-kool aid wheel sizes, early Fox forks which still go fine.

I've renovated it a few times and might pop in a Fox Kashima float RP23 soon. I don't have any plans to put it out to pasture yet although a modern CF dually is tempting.

I kind of like knowing that I've rode this one too long have some history with it. Still fun to ride with no creaks, squeaks or clunks :thumbsup: Nice one SC.


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## scoon (Aug 26, 2005)

Ha - so true. I have a 2006 Heckler that is my primary bike. I still have a 98 chameleon that gets ridden from time to time. In a box waiting to get built is a bantam. I didn't need to ride one to see if I'd like it because it really is no different from my 06 Heckler.


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## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

Here's my '05 prophet this past weekend, such a fun bike. Dropper cable routing is sloppy as I've been swapping between this and my fatbike quite frequently lately.


----------



## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

I almost forgot about my '04 SJ FSR Pro and my '09 Epic Comp custom. Oops. :eekster:

Check out the old skuuul XTR dual control brake/shifters on the SJ.


----------



## bradkay (Apr 9, 2013)

Another one late to the thread...

Here's my '97 Mantra Race. I love this bike...


----------



## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

'08 Titus MotoLite. I've changed practically everything over the years and still love this bike.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bwilson said:


> '08 Titus MotoLite. I've changed practically everything over the years and still love this bike.
> 
> View attachment 1042382


Titus made some great bikes it's too bad they went away. The founder of Titus - Chris Cocalis started up Pivot Bikes. Another top notch bike company and you can see the Titus influence in the Pivot designs.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I still have an 09 Stumpjumper FSR 29. It was originally an 08 but I broke the frame and Spesh ponied up with the 09 frame. 
Of course, the following year they came out with tapered steerers and thru axle rear hubs so it became dated almost overnight. 
Still, it's been a good bike. It was my gateway drug. Before that, I rode a 26er Canti braked Cannondale hardtail for like 15 years. Totally changed the way I ride. 
It's probably going to get replaced with a Lenz Fatillac as soon as I can afford it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hawg said:


> I almost forgot about my '04 SJ FSR Pro and my '09 Epic Comp custom. Oops. :eekster:
> 
> Check out the old skuuul XTR dual control brake/shifters on the SJ.


Did you like those fuel control brake / shifters? I always thought it was kind of a funky design. Too much going on makes for less concentration on the trail. Road bikes they were a success.


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## Boulder Pilot (Jan 23, 2004)

My 1994 Boulder Defient. Check out the Grafton Joysticks cranks. This bike gets outdoors about once every two months. Very fun ride.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Boulder Pilot said:


> My 1994 Boulder Defient. Check out the Grafton Joysticks cranks. This bike gets outdoors about once every two months. Very fun ride.


Wow that baby belongs in the mountain bike history museum. 

Very cool!

Reminds me of my brothers 96' Catamount that he still rides. Current photo, only upgrades since it's 96' original build is the wheel set and fork.


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## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Wow that baby belongs in the mountain bike history museum.
> 
> Very cool!
> 
> Reminds me of my brothers 96' Catamount that he still rides. Current photo, only upgrades since it's 96' original build is the wheel set and fork.


I remember the very first time I ever saw one of those, was mid - late '96 at a local mtb race meet, it was bright yellow and I absolutely fell in love with it. Only problem was, it was so far out of my price range (although most full suspension bikes were in NZ at that time), that it forever remained an object of desire for me. Mind you, knowing how those URT's used to ride...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Kiwiplague said:


> I remember the very first time I ever saw one of those, was mid - late '96 at a local mtb race meet, it was bright yellow and I absolutely fell in love with it. Only problem was, it was so far out of my price range (although most full suspension bikes were in NZ at that time), that it forever remained an object of desire for me. Mind you, knowing how those URT's used to ride...


The company was out of Fort Collins Colorado. Which my family has a connection with. My brother lived in San Diego at the time and still does. My sister and her husband were local to Fort Collins. So all three bought one and built them up differently. And all three still have them. Although my sister and her X husband [now] have since stored them away and moved on to current bikes.

My brothers red one above. 
My sisters has a deep blue one.
And her X husbands has a bright yellow one.

That suspension design was called the "Sweet Spot". Schwinn also had that design as well as a few others. At the time considered one of the best suspension designs.


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## scoon (Aug 26, 2005)

Kiwiplague said:


> I remember the very first time I ever saw one of those, was mid - late '96 at a local mtb race meet, it was bright yellow and I absolutely fell in love with it. Only problem was, it was so far out of my price range (although most full suspension bikes were in NZ at that time), that it forever remained an object of desire for me. Mind you, knowing how those URT's used to ride...


Ha, I have a Hardland frame in my basement. Same bike but made by an east coast builder, I think......


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

My 07 Enduro S Works still gets out occasionally and my wifes regular ride is an 08 Safire Expert. Granted she only rides a handful of times a year now (used to be about 50 rides a year) but it's in fantastic shape and all original parts other than tires.


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## turbotoad (Feb 12, 2004)

*1995 Trek Y33*

Still ride my 1995 TREK Y33 occationally. Bought it new in Jan. 1996 and raced it for a few years. Over the past 20 years components have been upgraded/replaced resulting in the only "original" parts remaining being the frame itself and the front XTR deraileur. But almost everything (except shifters) is still 10-15 years old or more.

Pic is from summer 2014


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

turbotoad said:


> Still ride my 1995 TREK Y33 occationally. Bought it new in Jan. 1996 and raced it for a few years. Over the past 20 years components have been upgraded/replaced resulting in the only "original" parts remaining being the frame itself and the front XTR deraileur. But almost everything (except shifters) is still 10-15 years old or more.
> 
> Pic is from summer 2014


Nice!
I rode Moab in 94 and was on a loaner bike. I met a guy on Slickrock with a candy apple red colored one like yours. They were ahead of their time with a composite frame and they definitely turned heads back in the day.


----------



## m10b (Dec 27, 2004)

*here ist my 2006 Bike*

Still in use: Tour Pizzo Leone 05.feb 2016

Here is my 2006 Canyon Nerve AM8

mtb
www.Trail.ch


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## turbotoad (Feb 12, 2004)

*All still ridden*

Still have these in my line-up (along with a 2012 Titus X Alloy and a 2009 Fuji Reveal 2.0) that get ridden many times a year. Yes I'm still rockin 26" wheels, tubes, 580mm bars, shifter/brake combos, 120mm-130mm stems, canti's on a few bikes, and mech disc on all the others......guess I'm just a retro grouch 

2004 Raleigh Inferno XC
2004 K2 Attack 2.0
2004 Titus Racer X
2003 Mountain Cycle SLiX
1995 TREK Y33


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## turbotoad (Feb 12, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Titus made some great bikes it's too bad they went away. The founder of Titus - Chris Cocalis started up Pivot Bikes. Another top notch bike company and you can see the Titus influence in the Pivot designs.


Almost bought a MotoLite frame on ebay a few weeks ago. I had the itch for one to add to my Titus bikes (2004 Racer-X & 2012 X-Alloy). The older Titus bikes are sweet! I almost prefer riding my 2004 vs. 2012 as it feels more "solid" and yet more compliant at the same time.


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## turbotoad (Feb 12, 2004)

Just added/built another "retro" ride to the stable. Bought this 2002 Intense Tracer frame on ebay just over a month ago. Rear end was loose ,but replaced all the pivot bearings and good as new now. Built it up with mostly new mid/low-level (Deore drivetrain/Alivio shifters/Manitou M30 fork/BB7 brakes/etc.) components. Weighs in at 28lbs exactly. Only ridden 3 times, so not quiet used to it yet......really high bottom bracket height feels weird.


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## font9a (Jul 4, 2004)

It feels so good!


----------



## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

ohhh that is a nice maverck


----------



## Guest (Apr 12, 2016)

sure do......


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## font9a (Jul 4, 2004)

*thanks!*



bridgestone14 said:


> ohhh that is a nice maverck


It feels so good!

 Maverick ML8 165mm frame
 XTR M9000 1-11
 Hope Tech II 183mm brakes
 Hope ceramic BB
 King hubs, Mavic 819 UST, 2.35 Nevegals
 Cromag saddle, bars
 Maverick dropper post
 Fox Factory RC2 160mm 36
 Candy 4Ti pedals


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## KingKrawczyk (Feb 9, 2009)

*2004 Diamondback Coil EX*

I have a 2004 Diamondback Coil EX that I got off of craigslist after being out of mountain biking for a while. Bought it relatively cheap and started buying new parts for it right away. So far it has new Shimano Rapid Fire Shifters, new Clark locking bar end grips, Avid BB5 calipers, Avid HS1 rotors, new Evo seat post, Avinir seat, SR Suntour XCT locking fork, Kenda Kadre 26 x 2.1 tires, Shimano clipless pedals, and lots more parts to go.

Figure I would put an old bike to use and I even made a fishing rack that'll hold two rods while I'm riding.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

font9a said:


> View attachment 1063332
> 
> 
> It feels so good!


I like that!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

font9a said:


> It feels so good!
> 
> Maverick ML8 165mm frame
> XTR M9000 1-11
> ...


That is a sweet build on a sweet frame.

Have you ever had to rebuild your Maverick dropper post? The reason I ask is because I have the first generation Crank Brothers Joplin dropper. It was when Crank Brothers bought the Maverick Speedball dropper. So the first generation Joplin is identical to the Maverick Soeedball dropper. They didn't change anything but the name on the first generation Joplin. It's a Maverick design. I bought it in 2008' and it has never been serviced. Coincidence because it just stopped working the other day, so it's going in for service. Great dropper IMO. I know the later Joplins had problems but this one has worked great all these years.


----------



## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

My '05 Kona Stab Supreme. Bought if off PB last season so I'd finally have a DH rig. The bike was in minty mint condition and I got it for a good price I think. All I had to do after buying it was change the chain, put a rear tube in, service the brakes and swap out the grips (didn't need to, but wanted ones that fit my hand better).

I'll put a new saddle on it this season and probably replace the brakes soon since they were a real pain in the rear to bleed this last round.

The bike is an absolute blast at the park and quite a conversation starter.

Here's a GoPro pic...


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

GoingNowhere said:


> My '05 Kona Stab Supreme. Bought if off PB last season so I'd finally have a DH rig. The bike was in minty mint condition and I got it for a good price I think. All I had to do after buying it was change the chain, put a rear tube in, service the brakes and swap out the grips (didn't need to, but wanted ones that fit my hand better).
> 
> I'll put a new saddle on it this season and probably replace the brakes soon since they were a real pain in the rear to bleed this last round.
> 
> ...


What is that about a 2005?


----------



## Guest (Apr 14, 2016)

GoingNowhere said:


> My '05 Kona Stab Supreme. Bought if off PB last season so I'd finally have a DH rig.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> What is that about a 2005?


yup rekon so.:crazy:


----------



## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> What is that about a 2005?


Yes, it is a 2005.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

nvphatty said:


> yup rekon so.:crazy:





GoingNowhere said:


> Yes, it is a 2005.


I thought I read that somewhere. 

Like also in your signature.


----------



## Guest (Apr 14, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I thought I read that somewhere.
> 
> Like also in your signature.


we understand


----------



## Samac (Nov 7, 2010)

I enjoy my '09 Cannondale Rize as much today as the day I brought it home:


----------



## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I thought I read that somewhere.
> 
> Like also in your signature.


No worries man. No harm, no foul!

Thanks for checking out my rig.


----------



## stormyMonday (Feb 29, 2016)

Samac said:


> I enjoy my '09 Cannondale Rize as much today as the day I brought it home:
> 
> View attachment 1063860


Awesome. Nice bike! I love my Rize 4. Been riding it a lot lately. Drivetrain was getting sloppy on mine so it just got a 1x11 upgrade. Such a sweet bike.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Samac (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks, stormyMonday. Yes, they are great bikes. Plenty of travel, light with geometry that feels comfortable going up and down. It's more bike than I'll ever need. Here's to years of enjoying them.

Cheers,

Scott


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

spesh sx '09 singlespeed trail/4x/jump


----------



## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

My wife still riders her 1996 Ground Control - she bought it new and took pretty good care of it.


----------



## mammothpunks (Apr 30, 2006)

Sinister R9 with 380 ti and Zee components.


----------



## font9a (Jul 4, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That is a sweet build on a sweet frame.
> 
> Have you ever had to rebuild your Maverick dropper post? The reason I ask is because I have the first generation Crank Brothers Joplin dropper. It was when Crank Brothers bought the Maverick Speedball dropper. So the first generation Joplin is identical to the Maverick Soeedball dropper. They didn't change anything but the name on the first generation Joplin. It's a Maverick design. I bought it in 2008' and it has never been serviced. Coincidence because it just stopped working the other day, so it's going in for service. Great dropper IMO. I know the later Joplins had problems but this one has worked great all these years.


I actually got the post in 2006, but only put it on this ML8 a couple weeks ago. It's practically brand new ;-) My buddy has a first-gen Maverick post he's been riding for nearly 10 years. He got it serviced once about 5 years ago - it's been really reliable for him. I love mine, never rode a dropper before. I was going to ride it for a while and change it out for a KS Lev or Thompson, but I like the discreet handle mechanism more than the messy cabling of the remotes, and it totally matches the ML8.


----------



## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

FlowZone | Maverick Suspension and Service
DirtJunkie, FlowZone suspesion is run by an old Maverick employee, he can fix your post right up for you. Drop him a line and see what he says. He is in Denver, so you may need to ship your post to him. He rebuild the shock and SC-32 on my Klein Palomino a few years back and did an excellent job. Can't recommend him enough.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bridgestone14 said:


> FlowZone | Maverick Suspension and Service
> DirtJunkie, FlowZone suspesion is run by an old Maverick employee, he can fix your post right up for you. Drop him a line and see what he says. He is in Denver, so you may need to ship your post to him. He rebuild the shock and SC-32 on my Klein Palomino a few years back and did an excellent job. Can't recommend him enough.


Great tip thanks, but my post is already in the mail off to Crank Brothers. I threw on my Thomson in the meantime. I'll bookmark that site for future issues. Looks like some pretty sweet high quality stuff they are doing on that site.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

NIce, great to hear that Crank Brothers is still working on their products.


----------



## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

2007 Yeti 575. 1x9 SRAM X9. Magura Laurin FCR 130 fork. Easton XC One wheel set.


----------



## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

MASC1104 said:


> 2007 Yeti 575. 1x9 SRAM X9. Magura Laurin FCR 130 fork. Easton XC One wheel set.


Beautiful. I had a 2007 with enduro build that I bought new. Was one of my favorite bikes.


----------



## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Just snagged this frame and built up with some parts I had laying around. She moved up from a 24" Specialized Hotrock. This XS may be just a touch big but her speed and fun factor have skyrocketed. It's raked out a bit with offset shock bushings.










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jaqkar (Apr 15, 2016)

Just got into the action and picked up this Rize 4. I do not have anything to really compare it to but have ridden bikes all my life including MX which you can probably see from the stand. I like how it feels and only read good things about them. Looking forward to hitting some berms and jumps. Changed the head bearings and added some Kevlar Renthals so far.


----------



## Exodus11 (Aug 21, 2007)

My '08 (??) Iron Horse Warrior 4.5...Its my only ride, but it works, and it works well. LOTS of miles on this one.. I'd love something a little newer, a little bigger, and maybe 27.5", but I dont think I'll ever get rid of it. I got it after my specialized was stolen after an estate sale (insurance payout).


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## NJEnviroguy (Jul 11, 2011)

Late to the party, but here's my Ole' Faithful...


----------



## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

ryguy79 said:


> I'm rebuilding a 2005 Iron Horse 7 Point 3 for bike park/shuttle riding. Haven't used it in a while, since I got a Pivot Firebird (which rides similarly but is lighter). got a new Marz Roco shock for cheap and a slightly used Lyrik RC2 DH for the front, as well as Avid Guide brakes and a Works Components 2 degree headset to slacken it out a bit. Going tubeless and some part changes should drop a few pounds off. Hoping to get it done before the snow melts up high. Looking forward to riding again.
> 
> Then
> 
> ...


Didn't use it last year, the fork and brakes wound up on a different bike last summer, but now its almost ready.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nice dirt couch, Rguy! Mind if I take it around the block when it's done??


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> Nice dirt couch, Rguy! Mind if I take it around the block when it's done??


It took me a minute but when it clicked...:lol::lol:


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It took me a minute but when it clicked...:lol::lol:


I didn't get it.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I didn't get it.


Pfft! Reference to the front wheel of a bicycle... Since a muni only has one a bicycle has two.


----------



## Guest (May 14, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> Pfft! Reference to the front wheel of a bicycle... Since a muni only has one a bicycle has two.


he still won't get it..


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Werd...


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

nvphatty said:


> he still won't get it..


You're right!


----------



## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

ryguy79 said:


> Didn't use it last year, the fork and brakes wound up on a different bike last summer, but now its almost ready.


nice rig. despite their questionable owners, IH came out with some great stuff. Sunday, Sam Hill, iconic monster green, and THE
fantastic MKIII


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## m10b (Dec 27, 2004)

*2006*


2006 Canyon Nerve

m10b
www.trail.ch


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

cjsb said:


> nice rig. despite their questionable owners, IH came out with some great stuff. Sunday, Sam Hill, iconic monster green, and THE
> fantastic MKIII


I still sorta want a Sunday. But lack of parts availability keeps me away. I've had the 7point3 since new and its a fun bike even though its heavy. I can't believe I used to climb on this pig.


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## Guest (May 30, 2016)

Someone mention MKIII??


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

ryguy79 said:


> I still sorta want a Sunday. But lack of parts availability keeps me away. I've had the 7point3 since new and its a fun bike even though its heavy. I can't believe I used to climb on this pig.


Yeah, It would be hard to find parts for sure. But you may want to contact whoever bought Ellsworth. My udnerstanding is that some IH Sunday inventory exhnaged with them when they had the brief consideration of a partnership. I think it all went south quickly when Ellsworth got concerned that they weren't going to get paid for their suspension. I think IH ended up owing Dave Weagle a chunk of cash, too. IH owners were the lowest slime in the industry.


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## frankn (Jul 5, 2015)

daily commute bike. 2001 Santa Cruz Superlight. Now running 1*10sp. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GNR (Oct 16, 2004)

*Pre-2010 Klein*

Fun build I just completed. First ride the other day. Not on topic, but a rider who saw the bike had never seen a Mantra so he thought it was a newer bike...also had never seen XTR parallel push V brakes. Maybe they'll make a comeback?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

GNR said:


> Fun build I just completed. First ride the other day. Not on topic, but a rider who saw the bike had never seen a Mantra so he thought it was a newer bike...also had never seen XTR parallel push V brakes. Maybe they'll make a comeback?


Nice!
I'm thinking it's a 1996'. However I don't remember Sid forks coming in dual crown.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

frankn said:


> daily commute bike. 2001 Santa Cruz Superlight. Now running 1*10sp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that is a 2001, you swapped out the rear triangle for the 2004-2006 version. I've got the same bike, 2001, same color even.
t's not my main bike, but I still love riding it. I'm taking it to Utah next week. It's my go to travel bike when I don't want to leave my fancy carbon rig in the car in hotel parking lots.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

GNR said:


> Fun build I just completed. First ride the other day. Not on topic, but a rider who saw the bike had never seen a Mantra so he thought it was a newer bike...also had never seen XTR parallel push V brakes. Maybe they'll make a comeback?


How do you like how it rides?


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## frankn (Jul 5, 2015)

smilinsteve said:


> If that is a 2001, you swapped out the rear triangle for the 2004-2006 version. I've got the same bike, 2001, same color even.
> t's not my main bike, but I still love riding it. I'm taking it to Utah next week. It's my go to travel bike when I don't want to leave my fancy carbon rig in the car in hotel parking lots.


Rear triangle is a replacement as the original cracked. I find that the anodised finish the most hard wearing of all the bikes I've owned. Love the colour. Enjoy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MVK Explores (May 12, 2016)

*The best bike ever*

I just recently retired my 2007 Trek Fuel EX9.

Bontrager race lite tubeless wheels
Full XTR drivetrain and brakes

I raced 6 season on this bike in short-track, DH, XC, and even some super endurance races. That bike could do it all, even some dirt jumping. Over its lifespan I had to replace the linkage bearings a few times and the rocker linkage twice.

As it sits now its rideable, but the rear triangle is bent and tires over 2.35" rub against the non-drive side chain stay.

I'm debating holding onto it as a loaner bike for guests to use around town or to strip it down and hang the frame on the wall. Either way I don't want to get rid of it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

m10b said:


> 2006 Canyon Nerve
> 
> m10b
> 50 Mountainbike Touren Schweiz *Trail.ch* Tessin Zentralschweiz Graubünden Wallis Alpen Biketouren


Great shot, but do you have any better shots of the bike?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I've just started collecting parts to build up another Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot full suspension single speed. This one will be Bass Boat Blue.


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## kbat117 (Jun 18, 2016)

I reaaaallllyyyy want a cheap (sub-$500) FS frame to do it all with. Gonna throw everything off my diamondback comp on it so this is good inspiration.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> I've just started collecting parts to build up another Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot full suspension single speed. This one will be Bass Boat Blue.


I've been dreaming of doing exactly that, but with a baby girl on the way, I now have different priorities! Or so my wife tells me... I'd appreciate it if you started a build thread to let me live vicariously through you!


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## johnnyspoke (Sep 15, 2005)

I know the thread says PRE-2010, but since the thread started over a year ago, I'll push some boundaries and post up mine:









2010 Rumblefish 2, from a ride last weekend.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

2008 prophet



















My buddies 2008 K2


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

johnnyspoke said:


> I know the thread says PRE-2010, but since the thread started over a year ago, I'll push some boundaries and post up mine:
> 
> View attachment 1084649
> 
> ...


Actually your bike is legal being a 2010.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

2004 Norco Fluid 3

Wife has been riding it on street but I may have to break it out again for granny gears and narrow bars on the tight hometown trail with a huge climb that humbled me yesterday. Never mind I just remembered it weighs 37 lbs...guess I'll need to configure my trance for that trail next time.


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## turbotoad (Feb 12, 2004)

Picked up another rescue frame from ebay and built it up a few weeks ago. 2007 Titus Racer X Limited...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

A friend of a friend asked if I could fix a broken brake line on his bike. I said of course and went to pick the bike up. I almost fell over when I saw that it had Magura rim brakes. It's an older Santa Cruz. I'll snap a pic over the weekend and post it. I'm not sure what year the bike is but it has rim brakes on it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have disc mounts.


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## VT1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Here's my '03 Giant VT1, bought new in 2005. She is still going strong. Just installed the Fox Talas 140 fork, and went with a shorter stem. Next upgrades are to replace the rear shock, and going to go with a 1x10 drivetrain. I want a new bike, but the geometry on this bike is awesome, and I just can't see myself replacing it with another bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> A friend of a friend asked if I could fix a broken brake line on his bike. I said of course and went to pick the bike up. I almost fell over when I saw that it had Magura rim brakes. It's an older Santa Cruz. I'll snap a pic over the weekend and post it. I'm not sure what year the bike is but it has rim brakes on it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have disc mounts.


HS33's?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> HS33's?


Yes. They are HS33's. I found a pic in my phone. I'll post it when I get back to my desk. The frame has disc brake mounts on the rear triangle but the fork does not.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> Yes. They are HS33's. I found a pic in my phone. I'll post it when I get back to my desk. The frame has disc brake mounts on the rear triangle but the fork does not.


The HS33's are still highly popular in trials. especially the 2005 levers.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> The HS33's are still highly popular in trials. especially the 2005 levers.



















This is it. Supposed to rain this weekend so I'll be getting this back up and running for this guy.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Classic, indeed! Nurse that one back to health so it can haunt the trails once more!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Classic, indeed! Nurse that one back to health so it can haunt the trails once more!


I'm givin' it the full treatment. It'll be the bomb.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

NYrr496 said:


> I'm givin' it the full treatment. It'll be the bomb.


Sweet ride, it looks like a 1999 SC Heckler. Love the Magura brakes those in themselves make for a mtb history lesson.


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## the old fool (Jan 27, 2008)

I still have my 1999 Specialized FSR Extreme it has the common broken rear frame so at the moment it's just gathering cobwebs, a shame as I had a lot of fun on this bike.


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

VT1 said:


> Here's my '03 Giant VT1...


Very cool - I miss my VT2 I had over 10 years ago. Really was a cool bike, but just didn't suit my riding style and I was in college and needed money, so I sold it...

Dan


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## VT1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Danimal said:


> Very cool - I miss my VT2 I had over 10 years ago. Really was a cool bike, but just didn't suit my riding style and I was in college and needed money, so I sold it...
> 
> Dan


I love my VT! I've contemplated selling it or buying another FS bike and retiring this one, but it just keeps going, and with every upgrade, it just gets better. This one will be in my stable for a long time.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

New single speed Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot I built up for a friend.


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## Scottie5150 (Mar 10, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> New single speed Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot I built up for a friend.
> 
> View attachment 1101637


Is the chain going to to break?

Sent from the UnderWorld via Nexus 6P ?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Scottay5150 said:


> Is the chain going to to break?


No. Why would it?


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## Scottie5150 (Mar 10, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> No. Why would it?


Chain growth when suspension cycles through..

Sent from the UnderWorld via Nexus 6P ?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Scottay5150 said:


> Chain growth when suspension cycles through..


The Sweetspot is a URT (Unified Rear Triangle) which means the rear axle and bottom bracket are rigidly connected, and therefore the chain length stays consistent.


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## jonas_24112 (May 16, 2016)

*2009 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert 29er*

Sorry for the crappy pic, but I just picked up this 2009 Stumpy 29r off Craigslist for $600. It came with some upgrades- Industry 9 wheels, Thomson seatpost & stem + hardware. The drivedrain is about shot and the Fox Triad threw up after the first ride (see oil spot under bike). I had planned on this being my "spare" bike, but I think I like it better than my 2014 KHS Bajada. Probably will like it better when I get done with it!! haha!!

I put new grips and Crank Bros pedals on it just to get it rideable. Am replacing the Triad with a Rockshox Monarch right now. When the drivetrain eventually starts slipping (I give it 100 miles), I'll probably go with a 1X replacement. She should be good to go then!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bad mechanic said:


> New single speed Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot I built up for a friend.
> 
> View attachment 1101637





Scottay5150 said:


> Is the chain going to to break?
> 
> Sent from the UnderWorld via Nexus 6P 





bad mechanic said:


> No. Why would it?





Scottay5150 said:


> Chain growth when suspension cycles through..
> 
> Sent from the UnderWorld via Nexus 6P 





bad mechanic said:


> The Sweetspot is a URT (Unified Rear Triangle) which means the rear axle and bottom bracket are rigidly connected, and therefore the chain length stays consistent.


Yep^ no chain growth with that design. Nice Homegrown by the way. My brother back in 1996 built up a Catamount Sweet Spot. Back in that era it was concidered the best design out. He still rides it, here's a recent photo with a few upgrades throughout the years. Wheels and fork mainly.


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## TrailGoat (Sep 6, 2016)

the old fool said:


> I still have my 1999 Specialized FSR Extreme it has the common broken rear frame so at the moment it's just gathering cobwebs, a shame as I had a lot of fun on this bike.


I am still riding a 99 FSR, great bike, ill try to get a pic of it. where did your frame brake? ive had no problems with mine


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## mayushuo (Oct 24, 2016)

theMISSIONARY said:


> *Giant NRS 1 Composite* 2004
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i can almost swear that lighthouse is in Kingston? Simcoe Island?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep^ no chain growth with that design. Nice Homegrown by the way. My brother back in 1996 built up a Catamount Sweet Spot. Back in that era it was concidered the best design out. He still rides it, here's a recent photo with a few upgrades throughout the years. Wheels and fork mainly.
> 
> View attachment 1101679


I really liked the Catamount, it has good lines.

The Sweetspot URTs like the Schwinn and Catamount are still very relevant today if you're looking for a singe speed XC full suspension bike.

I built up a Homegrown Carbon Sweetspot for a friend a while back. I'll try and find its picture as well.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

mayushuo said:


> i can almost swear that lighthouse is in Kingston? Simcoe Island?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Devonport,Tasmanian,Australia


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Found it!


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

I have long since moved on to bigger wheels and longer travel, but its always fun to break out the old Yeti for a spin.









2003 ASR-SL


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

bad mechanic said:


> Found it!
> 
> View attachment 1101684


That thing is the sh!t!!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep^ no chain growth with that design. Nice Homegrown by the way. My brother back in 1996 built up a Catamount Sweet Spot. Back in that era it was concidered the best design out. He still rides it, here's a recent photo with a few upgrades throughout the years. Wheels and fork mainly.
> 
> View attachment 1101679


Wonder if Ibis welded that? Looks so similar to the Szabo, except for the lack of the curved seat-tube to top-tube tube.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> Wonder if Ibis welded that? Looks so similar to the Szabo, except for the lack of the curved seat-tube to top-tube tube.


Nope, this company that has since gone under was all in house and local to me. Made in Fort Collins Colorado. Ibis, Schwinn and Catamount all used the Sweet Spot design back then.


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## proanglerh1 (May 22, 2015)

My 07 yeti ASR, completely updated to modern times with XT except for wheels and fork. 

















My 98? Klein Mantra also upgraded to modern times and changed the geometry alittle with a taller front fork and a shorter rear shock. Rides amazing and is a huge head turner.


















And finally my first bike that I bought with my own money back in high school

1996 Balance AL 350









If anyone can help me with the years of the yeti and the Klein I'd appreciate it. I'm the second owner of those.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Wow, nice looking bunch there ^.


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

proanglerh1 said:


> My 07 yeti ASR, completely updated to modern times with XT except for wheels and fork.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure the Yeti is a 2005 or 2006- the two ASR-SL models that used carbon fiber pivots in an aluminum rear triangle. Prior to 2005, the pivots were titanium and after 2006 the triangle was all carbon.


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## proanglerh1 (May 22, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Wow, nice looking bunch there ^.


Thanks man.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## proanglerh1 (May 22, 2015)

410sprint said:


> I am pretty sure the Yeti is a 2005 or 2006- the two ASR-SL models that used carbon fiber pivots in an aluminum rear triangle. Prior to 2005, the pivots were titanium and after 2006 the triangle was all carbon.


Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BikeBro (Nov 13, 2012)

1997 Ventana Marble Peak FS - its currently getting a new 1x10 drivetrain


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Love this thread! Will have to get home to share my pics! Until a couple months ago my newest FS was a 99-00 model


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BikeBro said:


> 1997 Ventana Marble Peak FS - its currently getting a new 1x10 drivetrain
> 
> View attachment 1101793


That's a good one.

I really think this thread should be bikes before about 2005, 2010 is way too recent.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

2010s bloody old by todays standards


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## Leonets (Jan 2, 2009)

2007 prophet cfr, update with new fork, gx 11v, xtr , 12kg , fully functional


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Couple from this summer!! This bike was just recently semi-retired. '99 Schwinn Rocket 88.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Wanted to share just a couple more from more recent! Love the old FS rides!


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Love this post! Reminds me a a few years ago when I had a small classic FS collection. '99, '00 Rocket 88 and a 1994 Pro Flex 754/ Sadly the '00 frame did crack, but parts were used to keep the '99 alive. The PF lives on with a friend of mine in another state!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

A nice group there Funrover.


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## proanglerh1 (May 22, 2015)

Let's be honest. What's more exciting. Seeing a brand new bike on the trails or a restored "vintage" bike tearing it up? I say vintage because they all have a unique look. Today's bikes all look the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yep^ no chain growth with that design. Nice Homegrown by the way. My brother back in 1996 built up a Catamount Sweet Spot. Back in that era it was concidered the best design out. He still rides it, here's a recent photo with a few upgrades throughout the years. Wheels and fork mainly.
> 
> View attachment 1101679


your stupidity never ceases to amaze. In 1996 one could take their pick of horst link bikes from the gt lts to fsr, to amp, mcmahon, turner and other. You could get single pivot bikes from cannondale super v to mountain cycle, sonoma crosstrac and etc.

you could even get VPP's in 1996.

No one in their right mind that rode in this era and knew how suspension worked ever considered any URT to be "the best design out."


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> your stupidity never ceases to amaze. In 1996 one could take their pick of horst link bikes from the gt lts to fsr, to amp, mcmahon, turner and other. You could get single pivot bikes from cannondale super v to mountain cycle, sonoma crosstrac and etc.
> 
> you could even get VPP's in 1996.
> 
> No one in their right mind that rode in this era and knew how suspension worked ever considered any URT to be "the best design out."


Ok, the stupidity comment wasn't need. But, I do have to agree with you. Any design that changes the distance between the BB and seat is a bad idea.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> your stupidity never ceases to amaze. In 1996 one could take their pick of horst link bikes from the gt lts to fsr, to amp, mcmahon, turner and other. You could get single pivot bikes from cannondale super v to mountain cycle, sonoma crosstrac and etc.
> 
> you could even get VPP's in 1996.
> 
> No one in their right mind that rode in this era and knew how suspension worked ever considered any URT to be "the best design out."


I agree there were many better designs in 96'. I think I was wrong on the year anyway. I think my brother built his Catamount in 95'. Sorry for my stupid comment saying it was one of the best back then. That in its self was a bad desicion on my part. I'd like to ask for your forgiveness in hopes of a full pardon.

I guess what I was more getting at was that the Catamount and Schwinn Homegrown Sweet Spot design had the Unified Rear Triangle [URT] where the bottom bracket and rear axle are unified. The chain does not not change length as the suspension cycles through with this design as someone up there ^ stated.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

proanglerh1 said:


> Let's be honest. What's more exciting. Seeing a brand new bike on the trails or a restored "vintage" bike tearing it up? I say vintage because they all have a unique look. Today's bikes all look the same.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Love the ride of the vintage bikes!! The new ones are awesome, don't get me wrong, but I really enjoy the trail on a vintage!


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Not sure if this counts. Not really a hard tail, but the 1" of pivotless travel is not necessarily full suspension either. Still using is as a rider for bikepacking and gravel grinding, but it hits the rotation less now for regular trail duty than my big wheeled bikes. It turns 20 this spring and has over 12,000 miles on it since I bought it used in 2004.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

sgltrak said:


> Not sure if this counts. Not really a hard tail, but the 1" of pivotless travel is not necessarily full suspension either. Still using is as a rider for bikepacking and gravel grinding, but it hits the rotation less now for regular trail duty than my big wheeled bikes. It turns 20 this spring and has over 12,000 miles on it since I bought it used in 2004.
> 
> View attachment 1102438


I disagree, it has 1" of pivotless rear suspension so it does qualify as a full suspension bike. Plus it's a titanium Moots and it deserves recognition. My sister raced that exact frame for several years and I was not happy when she sold it.

Great job on the 12,000 mile mark with that beauty.


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## GreenMtnBiker (Oct 26, 2016)

Been riding my Cannondale Rush 4 w/ lefty now since 2011. It's nimble, climbs well, and goes from point A to point B. 

I've been looking at new bikes, but it's hard to justify the price tags.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I agree there were many better designs in 96'. I think I was wrong on the year anyway. I think my brother built his Catamount in 95'. Sorry for my stupid comment saying it was one of the best back then. That in its self was a bad desicion on my part. I'd like to ask for your forgiveness in hopes of a full pardon.
> 
> I guess what I was more getting at was that the Catamount and Schwinn Homegrown Sweet Spot design had the Unified Rear Triangle [URT] where the bottom bracket and rear axle are unified. The chain does not not change length as the suspension cycles through with this design as someone up there ^ stated.


So when you said the Catamounts was the best design ever, what you really meant was it doesn't have chain growth? You must be the worst communicator ever.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> So when you said the Catamounts was the best design ever, what you really meant was it doesn't have chain growth? You must be the worst communicator ever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Dude, what's your problem with DJ? It's not like your stupid trite dribble is any better than what he has to say. Maybe for him it's a great design.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> So when you said the Catamounts was the best design ever, what you really meant was it doesn't have chain growth? You must be the worst communicator ever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Apparently you missed where I admitted my comment was wrong. And I never said Catamounts were the best design "ever". I said back in that era they were. That's where you corrected me and I admitted I was wrong in saying that. I even went on to say how right you were about many other better designs back then. What else do you want from me?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ DJ, this right here is a very valid point! I said that in my best Robert De Niro voice.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> ^ DJ, this right here is a very valid point! I said that in my best Robert De Niro voice.


And that's how I heard it even before you explained it.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

There was at least one magazine article comparing a few suspension designs from the mid '90s that rated the Schwinn Sweetspot as the best bike of the bunch. I can't recall what all of the bikes were in the test, but one of them was the GT LTS. At the time, fully active wasn't always well received, bearings were rare and problematic, weight and stiffness were a balancing act, and durability was a concern. I've never ridden a Sweetspot bike, but I've ridden most other designs. Back in the mid '90s, more pivots generally equalled more problems, more weight, and more pedal feedback, which was an issue for rigid and hardtail riders. Dirtjunkie was right the first time. It may not have been the best design in theory, but it was considered one of the best full-suspension bikes of it's time in practicality.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> There was at least one magazine article comparing a few suspension designs from the mid '90s that rated the Schwinn Sweetspot as the best bike of the bunch. I can't recall what all of the bikes were in the test, but one of them was the GT LTS. At the time, fully active wasn't always well received, bearings were rare and problematic, weight and stiffness were a balancing act, and durability was a concern. I've never ridden a Sweetspot bike, but I've ridden most other designs. Back in the mid '90s, more pivots generally equalled more problems, more weight, and more pedal feedback, which was an issue for rigid and hardtail riders. Dirtjunkie was right the first time. It may not have been the best design in theory, but it was considered one of the best full-suspension bikes of it's time in practicality.


There was also a magazine test that claimed the Mountain Cycle San Andreas was the worst FS bike ever made. Although, it probably wasn't the best, we know it wasn't the worst. But no, the Sweetspot was never considered by the mainstream to be one of the best FS bikes of its time. In fact the Schwinn name has never been considered one of the best of anything in the mountain bike market.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> There was also a magazine test that claimed the Mountain Cycle San Andreas was the worst FS bike ever made. Although, it probably wasn't the best, we know it wasn't the worst. But no, the Sweetspot was never considered by the mainstream to be one of the best FS bikes of its time. In fact the Schwinn name has never been considered one of the best of anything in the mountain bike market.


In the mid '90s, the Schwinn Homegrowns were absolutely considered some of the best bikes of the time. The 4-Banger has a cult following, the Yeti-made hardtails are still in demand, and Sweetspots were highly-ranked by at least one mainstream magazine. Like I said, bikes like the San Andreas were ahead of their time and not appreciated as they should have been. Amp Research had a great design that couldn't hold itself together long enough to matter. Cannondale's Super-V had potential, but never established itself as a top contender for various reasons. GT's LTS was a solid bike, but the bushings had issues, much like the Specialized bikes at the time. Given the issues of complex designs that were either ahead of their time or ahead of the necessary technology, bikes like the Schwinn Sweetpot were very popular for simplicity, light weight, reliability, and a firm pedaling platform.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mountainbiker24 said:


> In the mid '90s, the Schwinn Homegrowns were absolutely considered some of the best bikes of the time. The 4-Banger has a cult following, the Yeti-made hardtails are still in demand, and Sweetspots were highly-ranked by at least one mainstream magazine. Like I said, bikes like the San Andreas were ahead of their time and not appreciated as they should have been. Amp Research had a great design that couldn't hold itself together long enough to matter. Cannondale's Super-V had potential, but never established itself as a top contender for various reasons. GT's LTS was a solid bike, but the bushings had issues, much like the Specialized bikes at the time. Given the issues of complex designs that were either ahead of their time or ahead of the necessary technology, bikes like the Schwinn Sweetpot were very popular for simplicity, light weight, reliability, and a firm pedaling platform.


With all of those and I stayed with my custom Turners cause they out performed that entire list.

Needless to say, that time frame was when there was a great deal of innovation going on. Some were viable and others were a joke.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

It was definitely an interesting time in mountain bike history. Turner always had it figured out. They had the best bushings out there and a solid suspension design for riders that appreciated a semi-active design. Not too heavy, stiffer than most, and much more reliable than many other bikes. Not cheap, though.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I disagree, it has 1" of pivotless rear suspension so it does qualify as a full suspension bike. Plus it's a titanium Moots and it deserves recognition. My sister raced that exact frame for several years and I was not happy when she sold it.
> 
> Great job on the 12,000 mile mark with that beauty.


My understanding is that it would be considered a softail rather than full suspension:

The term softail refers to motorcycles and bicycles that feature a hidden rear suspension system with springs or shock absorbers to absorb bumps. Softail motorcycles give the appearance of having a hard-tail or rigid frame, normally with the shock absorbers or springs under the motorcycle and out of view.

Didn't Kona make a softail for awhile? Softails were supposed to be efficient and light like a hardtail but took a little of the edge off. Seems they are making a comeback but more in the road bike area.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> In the mid '90s, the Schwinn Homegrowns were absolutely considered some of the best bikes of the time. The 4-Banger has a cult following, the Yeti-made hardtails are still in demand, and Sweetspots were highly-ranked by at least one mainstream magazine. Like I said, bikes like the San Andreas were ahead of their time and not appreciated as they should have been. Amp Research had a great design that couldn't hold itself together long enough to matter. Cannondale's Super-V had potential, but never established itself as a top contender for various reasons. GT's LTS was a solid bike, but the bushings had issues, much like the Specialized bikes at the time. Given the issues of complex designs that were either ahead of their time or ahead of the necessary technology, bikes like the Schwinn Sweetpot were very popular for simplicity, light weight, reliability, and a firm pedaling platform.


Schwinn slapped the Homegrown name on a number of bikes, even HTs. The Sweetspot UTR was never considered, I'll give you one mag article, to be anywhere near the best. In fact it was near the bottom of the pile.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mountainbiker24 said:


> It was definitely an interesting time in mountain bike history. Turner always had it figured out. They had the best bushings out there and a solid suspension design for riders that appreciated a semi-active design. Not too heavy, stiffer than most, and much more reliable than many other bikes. Not cheap, though.


Turner came with a price tag, indeed. So did everything else of substance at the time. To have the opportunity to ride with Dave Turner and own his frames was a blessing for sure. There is a set of three in my collective. 96 Burner XCE, 98 Stinger, 2006 SixPack. Of the three the Stinger gets out and goes on the marathon rides cause the bike weighs 21 #'s and gets 12 miles per sammich. The SixPack gets around 4 miles per sammich.
All three are in mint condition. I recently managed to get new old stock decals for them with the exception of the "full time fun" that was on the seat stays. We always bastardized the "full time function" to read "full time fun". The first time I did that in the presence of Dave, he had the deer in the headlights look on his face. He shoulda known a buncha stoner ass mountain bikers would do the deed.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nothing here:
10 of the Best Vintage Full Suspension Mountain Bike Frames | Vintage Steel Rider

Nothing here:
100 of the best vintage mountain bikes | Vintage Steel Rider


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mountainbiker24 said:


> There was at least one magazine article comparing a few suspension designs from the mid '90s that rated the Schwinn Sweetspot as the best bike of the bunch. I can't recall what all of the bikes were in the test, but one of them was the GT LTS. At the time, fully active wasn't always well received, bearings were rare and problematic, weight and stiffness were a balancing act, and durability was a concern. I've never ridden a Sweetspot bike, but I've ridden most other designs. Back in the mid '90s, more pivots generally equalled more problems, more weight, and more pedal feedback, which was an issue for rigid and hardtail riders. Dirtjunkie was right the first time. It may not have been the best design in theory, but it was considered one of the best full-suspension bikes of it's time in practicality.


Getting back to the Sweet Spot design. Here's an old artical that talks about the Schwinn Homegrown and the Catamount. Seems they gave both rave reviews.

There were some good designs back then and some very bad ones. A lot of innovation and weeding out the good from the bad.

___________________________________________________________

*From the February 1995 issue of Bicycling magazine:*

Get That Checkbook Ready. Our Annual Dual-Suspension Shootout Has Found 4 (Almost) Bugless Bikes.

Do we really test our test bikes? That's a question some manufacturers have the gall to ask. Sometimes they'll relate how Such-And-Such Magazine returned a bike and--get this--the little nubbins weren't even worn off the tires.

Believe us, on this group of '95 dual-suspension machines, those nubbins are long gone. Vaporized. So is a good deal of paint, a crankarm (bent in a crash), a derailleur hanger, and sundry other parts--including considerable patches of our skin. That's what happens when you test bikes in Moab, Utah, the land of slickrock and the mythological Kokopelli man, which we can only assume means "dual-suspension tester" in some ancient tongue. Moab's terrain is so severe that it's hard to imagine life without dual suspension.

But we didn't stop there. We freighted the bikes to our Northern California office for rides in the redwood forests. This took us from dust to downpours, letting us evaluate just how much water could be ingested by the bikes' various linkages and shock absorbers.

This is the third consecutive year we've done a major dual-suspension review. This group--including the Schwinn Homegrown Suspension, Catamount MFS, GT LTS, and Pro-Flex 855--represents significant new designs available early this model year. (We'll review even more dualies in upcoming issues.) In the past, we concluded that bounce bikes represent "emerging technology." In other words, keep a firm leash on your checkbook until they get the bugs out.

Well, we're glad to announce that most bugs are gone, and those that remain are packing their little bags. Most of the group we tested offer significant comfort with minimal "biopacing" (pedal-induced suspension action), long the annoyance in most dual-suspension designs. This is primarily because of the advent of the unified rear triangle (URT), a feature used on the Catamount and Schwinn. With it, the bottom bracket and rear axle are "unified" through rigid frame members, eliminating the bothersome chain tightening and slackening that occurs with other pivot arrangements. We've gone on record to predict that this design will supplant all others, and we feel even more confident now that we've had significant saddle time on several unifieds.

The unified design, as well as the multiple-pivot frame found on the GT, comes close to satisfying the standards Bicycling has set for rear suspension: (1) it must be fully active and not "locked out" by pedal action (otherwise, why bother?); and (2) it must minimize pedal-induced suspension movement. The latter is anathema to anyone who covets a smooth, circular stroke like that experienced on a road bike.

Despite the advancements exhibited by our test group, dualies in general still suffer from myriad small problems, such as:
Excess complication. Pivots, air/oil shocks, and the like increase the chances of a long walk home. Thus, the cardinal rule of dual suspension: carry an all-in-one tool.

Limited calf clearance because of protruding cantilevers or swingarms.
Reduced rear brake force caused by convoluted cable routing.
Awkward (or nonexistent) water bottle placement.
Enough linkage and drivetrain noise to spook wildlife.
Limited saddle height adjustability caused by "interrupted seat tube" designs. (Long seatposts contact the shock or frame when lowered.) In fact, we had to carry cut-off posts to accommodate our range of testers.

We ranked the bikes based solely on suspension design--and not components--because spec varied widely. In this group, the Homegrown was our top-rated bike, followed closely by the Catamount. GT's rig ranked third, Pro-Flex fourth.

In the end, we again asked ourselves: If it were our dough, would we buy one of these bikes? Depends on the terrain and our reason for riding. Not one tester, for instance, said he would want to use one for a cross-country race. Despite tremendous advances in pedaling efficiency, the energy cost and weight penalty of dual suspension is still a concern. But for riding the harsh ledges and rock gardens of Moab, we wouldn't want anything else. What's more, if you love descending, technical climbing (where dual suspension aids traction), or want more comfort, then the best of these bikes is worth the investment.

1. Schwinn: Homegrown Suspension
A plush ride without the usual penalities.

There's a lot Schwinn's Homegrown dual-suspension bike won't do. Thank goodness.

It won't trash your pedal stroke with suspension-induced chain kickback. It won't impersonate a pogo stick when you jam out of the saddle. It won't double as an oil tanker anchor.

Until now, these were the prices you paid for dual suspension's benefits. But the latest generation of softtails comes close to zapping these bugs. And of the 4 machines in this review, the Homegrown comes nearest to being pest-free.

We tested the $2,600 Shimano Deore XT equipped model. (Schwinn's Homegrown full-suspension line also includes a Shimano LX version for $2,000 and a trick American Group bike for $3,200.) The Homegrown sports a unified rear triangle, Fox air/oil shock with adjustable rebound damping, and the "Sweet Spot" pivot, located above and forward of the bottom bracket. Schwinn licensed the Sweet Spot concept from California designer John Castellano (as have Ibis and Wilderness Trail Bikes).

URTsters claim the rigid, one-piece rear end all but eliminates suspension-activated bobbing in the drivetrain. After thrashing the Homegrown on Slickrock's moonscape and NorCal's mudscape, we agree. None of us could dig up any inchworming no matter how gnarly the terrain.
The downside is a slight loss of traction when you're climbing technical, ledge-infested trails and want the rear wheel to bite hard. In this case a bobbing bike, such as the Pro-Flex 855, can work better. But, in our view, the trade-off isn't worth it. We'll take the Schwinn's superior pedaling efficiency over any biopacing bike that's marginally better on steep stuff.

A more serious knock against unifieds is that when the shock compresses, the saddle drops. This means saddle height is constantly changing. On the trail this didn't bother us, although we're usually anal about seat height. Unlike on the road, it just isn't as critical off road, where we're all over the bike anyway.

So what's the payoff? It's obvious on the first bumpy section I ride. On a hardtail I'd be pedaling squares or not pedaling at all while the saddle slams into my butt and shock waves wash up my legs. My speed would be dropping and my fatigue increasing. But on the Schwinn, with its 3.75 inches of rear travel, I stay seated and maintain something close to a round pedal stroke on all but the worst sections. In short, I go faster and get less beat up. "Cushy" is how every tester described the ride.

But what about those times when you're climbing or sprinting out of the saddle and you don't want highly active suspension? Enter the Sweet Spot pivot. Its location is designed to make the suspension 4 times stiffer when standing than when seated. So when you jump out of the saddle, the Homegrown feels like a hardtail bike.

Although the Homegrown weighs a reasonable 25.8 pounds, we can't help thinking it could be lighter. The TIG-welded 6061 oversize aluminum frame weighs 5.8 pounds, and the rear triangle alone consists of 8 tubes. It looks needlessly heavy and complicated, especially compared to the other unified bike in our test, the elegant Catamount. Schwinn chose the design for improved heel clearance, top-tube cable routing, and so you don't need a special brake--all commendable goals--but the result is lots of extra metal. What's more, the Homegrown exhibits chain slap on fast, bumpy descents.

The Rock Shox Judy XC LT fork, with 2.5 inches of travel, lives up to its billing. It's equally adept at gobbling big ledges in Moab or snacking on roots and logs in NorCal's redwood forests.

Overall, we liked the Homegrown because it behaves like a hardtail when you need rigidity and like a suspension bike when you need cushioning. It's close to being a bike we'd buy to race cross-country. More than any machine in our test, the Homegrown shows how far dual-suspension bikes have come.
--Scott Martin

Distributed by: Schwinn, 1690 38th St., Boulder, CO 80301; consumer info: 708/231-5340 (IL)

Country of Origin: U.S.
Suggested Retail Price: $2,600
Sizes Available: 17, 19 (tested), and 21 in. (center to top of seat tube)
Weight: Frame, 5.8 lbs.; fork, 3.5 lbs.; complete bike, 25.8 lbs.
Frame: Easton aluminum main frame and rear end with Fox adjustable air/oil shock; Rock Shox Judy XC LT elastomer/oil-damped suspension fork
Wheelbase 41 in.; 104.1 cm
Seat tube 19in.; 48.3 cm (actual, center to top of seat tube)
Top tube 22.8in.; 57.8 cm (effective)
Head angle 73.5 degrees
Seat angle 74 degrees
Chainstays 16.8 in.; 42.5 cm
Bottom bracket height 12.4 in.; 31.4 cm
Fork rake 1.6 in.; 4.06 cm
Trail 2.18in.; 5.53 cm

Component Highlights: Shimano Deore XT group; GripShift SRT800 X-Ray shifters; Sampson sealed titanium bottom bracket; Dia-Compe PC-7 brake levers; Tioga Alchemy AheadSet; Tioga Clipman clipless pedals; Sun 32-hole CR17A rims; Wheelsmith XL-15 stainless-steel spokes with alloy nipples; Tioga Psycho K 26x1.95-in. tires; Selle San Marco Integra MSA saddle; Control Tech aluminum seatpost, aluminum stem, and aluminum bar-ends.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

All that proves is that people are ****ing stupid.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jayem said:


> all that proves is that people are ****ing stupid.


lol

It was definitely a time of trial in error in suspension designs.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DJ, they are not even comparing them to the good designs of the day. Also, they said about URT, "We've gone on record to predict that this design will supplant all others, and we feel even more confident now that we've had significant saddle time on several unifieds." This couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is, it was a shitty design and died a long time ago as it should have. Even simple single pivots proved to be better and lived several years after UTRs were long gone.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> DJ, they are not even comparing them to the good designs of the day. Also, they said about URT, "We've gone on record to predict that this design will supplant all others, and we feel even more confident now that we've had significant saddle time on several unifieds." This couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is, it was a shitty design and died a long time ago as it should have. Even simple single pivots proved to be better and lived several years after UTRs were long gone.


I agree with it going away because it wasn't the best. It had a good debut but other designs proved to be better. The weeding out of designs have been endless over the years. That time in our sport was the most innovative time for rear suspension. It was a race for all to come up with the best design. Most failed miserably and few carried forward for more than a few years. Many were transition designs that led to better ones. The Sweet Spot falls into this last category in my opinion. My brother built up a Catamount and I was drooling over the GT LTS at the time. I couldn't afford to get one so I waited a 5 more years and ended up getting a GT i-Drive. It was a year 2000' XCR-LE. A limited edition bike that had Easton 6061 taper walled tubing and was hand built out of the Santa Ana plant. Very few models in the GT lineup were built at that plant. A lighter frame than the other i-drives of the time. And it got the Team GT paint scheme colors. The first i-drive suspension was quite a marvel of engineering in my opinion. And put on the right platform of a lightweight frame it performed outstanding. Great climber and also good in the rough.

I was always amazed that after GT went bankrupt in 2001 that the i-drive suspension design wasn't bought and continued on, it performed that good. GT was later bought by Pacific and the i-drive revamped into what we know now as i-drive but it wasn't the same.

It weighed a full pound less than the next in the i-drive lineup. It came in at 26.5 lbs with disc brakes.

Here's an old photo of it, loved that bike. And my buddies 2000 Ellsworth Truth in the background.
















The old original I-drive design and how it works.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

the "Idrive" went onto the mongoose teocali etc in a slightly different form...some love it some hate it


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

theMISSIONARY said:


> the "Idrive" went onto the mongoose teocali etc in a slightly different form...some love it some hate it


As I said GT later was bought by Pacific and the i-drive design was revamped and continued on in the new GT's. I've never ridden one but the old original design was in my opinion an engineering masterpiece.

Here's the new design which is quite different from the old.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> In the mid '90s, the Schwinn Homegrowns were absolutely considered some of the best bikes of the time. The 4-Banger has a cult following, the Yeti-made hardtails are still in demand, and Sweetspots were highly-ranked by at least one mainstream magazine. Like I said, bikes like the San Andreas were ahead of their time and not appreciated as they should have been. Amp Research had a great design that couldn't hold itself together long enough to matter. Cannondale's Super-V had potential, but never established itself as a top contender for various reasons. GT's LTS was a solid bike, but the bushings had issues, much like the Specialized bikes at the time. Given the issues of complex designs that were either ahead of their time or ahead of the necessary technology, bikes like the Schwinn Sweetpot were very popular for simplicity, light weight, reliability, and a firm pedaling platform.


Dude, I worked for one of the companies making sweet spot bikes. Our main engineers hated the bike. They were horrible, even for their time. URTs were basically designed for people who didn't understand suspension, yet wanted to jump on the bandwagon. They were openly ridiculed. And still are.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Getting back to the Sweet Spot design. Here's an old artical that talks about the Schwinn Homegrown and the Catamount. Seems they gave both rave reviews.
> 
> There were some good designs back then and some very bad ones. A lot of innovation and weeding out the good from the bad.
> 
> ...


Bicycling is a roadie magazine, of course they liked URTS. JFC. And are you full of **** or what? First you say URTs were the best, when pressed, you reneg, now you're back at it. Your ignorance is amazing

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> Bicycling is a roadie magazine, of course they liked URTS. JFC. And are you full of **** or what? First you say URTs were the best, when pressed, you reneg, now you're back at it. Your ignorance is amazing
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


What are you referring to?

I already apologized for my Sweet Spot comment as being a great design in its day. What else are you talking about? I simply posted up a review they did on a few of the designs back then. An artical in a magazine take it with a grain of salt. Even the mtb magazines are full of **** half the time.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2016)

clean up on isle 12


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I was always amazed that after GT went bankrupt in 2001 that the i-drive suspension design wasn't bought and continued on, it performed that good. GT was later bought by Pacific and the i-drive revamped into what we know now as i-drive but it wasn't the same.


But it was bought and it did continue on. This is flat incorrect.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> In the mid '90s, the Schwinn Homegrowns were absolutely considered some of the best bikes of the time. The 4-Banger has a cult following, the Yeti-made hardtails are still in demand, and Sweetspots were highly-ranked by at least one mainstream magazine. Like I said, bikes like the San Andreas were ahead of their time and not appreciated as they should have been. Amp Research had a great design that couldn't hold itself together long enough to matter. Cannondale's Super-V had potential, but never established itself as a top contender for various reasons. GT's LTS was a solid bike, but the bushings had issues, much like the Specialized bikes at the time. Given the issues of complex designs that were either ahead of their time or ahead of the necessary technology, bikes like the Schwinn Sweetpot were very popular for simplicity, light weight, reliability, and a firm pedaling platform.


This has so much wrong with it.

Schwinn Homegrown does not mean URT. They put homegrown labels on hardtails, too.

The 4 Banger is a Lawwill bike - of course people like it.

Amp suspension showed up on Chumba, Titus, Dagger, Intense, Turner and lots of others. I raced one for 2 seasons. It worked.

Cannondale Super V's were raced by Missy and Myles for several years - don't know what you're talking about. Thousands upon thousands of these bikes were sold.

GT LTS did have bushings - but other than squeeking now and then - they worked great. You can pick up a 1996 LTS bike today and ride it. They were and are solid.

When you look at Lawwill, Mountain Cycle, LTS - what they all have in common is designs coming from the automotive and motocross industries.

URT's came from backyard retards sniffing glue. There was never any compelling principle behind the URT other than roadies who wanted a bike that looked like it had suspension - but pedalled like a hardtail. URT's sucked then and suck more now.

Now THAT Was a Bike: 1996 Klein Mantra Pro - Pinkbike


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Jayem said:


> But it was bought and it did continue on. This is flat incorrect.


It's been steadily improved upon over the years. The MTB industry doesnt generally let good designs fall by the wayside. The URT, on the otoh was never a good design.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> It's been steadily improved upon over the years. The MTB industry doesnt generally let good designs fall by the wayside. The URT, on the otoh was never a good design.


It won't let me give you more rep for "URT's came from backyard retards sniffing glue", but if it did....

I could have afforded a Y-bike as my first FS bike. I did the research and got the early diamondback V-link instead. I think I made a good choice, in fact, I quite liked it and it held up well for a few years before I moved more towards the "AM/FR" scene. It was interesting to see that a lot of bikes followed that same basic config, and interesting to see how Spec put a spin on the horst link as being some huge change on that same basic interrupted seatube linkage design. Those were the years where they were pushing marketing heavily. The V-links were pretty solid though, would have been cool to keep as a collectors item.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> It's been steadily improved upon over the years. The MTB industry doesnt generally let good designs fall by the wayside. The URT, on the otoh was never a good design.


Would you say the I-drive was improved upon? When it was relaunched after GT's bankruptcy it was completely revamped. The old design was a great design and why they changed it so much, in my opinion was just to show that they were trying to show they were working on advancement rather than repeating the old design.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Would you say the I-drive was improved upon? When it was relaunched after GT's bankruptcy it was completely revamped. The old design was a great design and why they changed it so much, in my opinion was just to show that they were trying to show they were working on advancement rather than repeating the old design.


The original Idrive was a great design - but its implementation was lacking. The large eccentric would constantly get gunked up and not stay in proper adjustment - and the dog bones, with their tiny bushing constantly wore out and created slop and noises.

Further - the interupted seat tube design was probably the weakest frame component I've ever seen. I had brand new idrive frames crack within the first 2 hours of riding them. I personally broke 15 of the original idrive frames.

It worked great - but needed to be simplified. That's what they did - using bigger bearing and bigger links.

The principle is still there, though. Jim Busby, to my knowledge, has been involved in each redesign.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Would you say the I-drive was improved upon? When it was relaunched after GT's bankruptcy it was completely revamped. The old design was a great design and why they changed it so much.


Well of course they are going to look different, because they are going to try and improve them, which means things like making them lighter, stiffer, etc. There were also durability issues with the dogbone and other aspects of some of the bikes, so obviously they wouldn't exist the same as the roll-out model over the entire span of the suspension-design. Not sure where you are going with this. It's like how Spec has used various types of linkages, resulting in bikes that looked very different, from the 99 FSR XCs and 2004 enduro models to the 2008 rocker-link version to the modern day yoke-linkage driven version. All looked very different and were changed for various reasons.

GT I-drive "Dog-Bone" issue - BikeRadar Forum


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Well of course they are going to look different, because they are going to try and improve them, which means things like making them lighter, stiffer, etc. There were also durability issues with the dogbone and other aspects of some of the bikes, so obviously they wouldn't exist the same as the roll-out model over the entire span of the suspension-design. Not sure where you are going with this. It's like how Spec has used various types of linkages, resulting in bikes that looked very different, from the 99 FSR XCs and 2004 enduro models to the 2008 rocker-link version to the modern day yoke-linkage driven version. All looked very different and were changed for various reasons.
> 
> GT I-drive "Dog-Bone" issue - BikeRadar Forum


Dirtjunkie pines for the days of american made GT's. I don't blame him for liking what GT did in Santa Ana - but the original idrive was flawed - and he's never gotten over it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> The original Idrive was a great design - but its implementation was lacking. The large eccentric would constantly get gunked up and not stay in proper adjustment - and the dog bones, with their tiny bushing constantly wore out and created slop and noises.
> 
> Further - the interupted seat tube design was probably the weakest frame component I've ever seen. I had brand new idrive frames crack within the first 2 hours of riding them. I personally broke 15 of the original idrive frames.
> 
> ...


That early design was an engineering masterpiece in my opinion. Other than what you stated with the eccentric getting gunked up the principle and the way it worked boggled the mind. The idea was to keep the bottom bracket to seat at a constant, no change measurement throughout its travel. The result was a suspension that had amazing climbing capabilities with good bump absorption in the rough. That suspension design was way ahead of its time. The new I-drive is a completely different design and shouldn't even be labeled as an I-drive, or should it?

As far as the interrupted seat tube design being a weak link. I agree I broke two of those frames in the exact same spot. GT was working on fixing that issue by beefing that area up but then they went bankrupt. When they were bought out by Pacific in my opinion Pacific should have continued where GT left off. Kept the old I-drive design and beefed up the seat mast. Instead they completely changed the suspension design and frame yet kept the I-drive name.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> That early design was an engineering masterpiece in my opinion. Other than what you stated with the eccentric getting gunked up the principle and the way it worked boggled the mind. The idea was to keep the bottom bracket to seat at a constant, no change measurement throughout its travel. The result was a suspension that had amazing climbing capabilities with good bump absorption in the rough. That suspension design was way ahead of its time. The new I-drive is a completely different design and shouldn't even be labeled as an I-drive, or should it?
> 
> As far as the interrupted seat tube design being a weak link. I agree I broke two of those frames in the exact same spot. GT was working on fixing that issue by beefing that area up but then they went bankrupt. When they were bought out by Pacific in my opinion Pacific should have continued where GT left off. Kept the old I-drive design and beefed up the seat mast. Instead they completely changed the suspension design and frame yet kept the I-drive name.


You misunderstand how the idrive worked.

The measurement from the seat to the bb did change - the bb dropped slightly under compression. This means when standing, you actually have slighly more leverage and slightly more travel. It was only something like 10-15 milimeters at full compression.

The BB also moved rearward ever so slightly - something like 15-20 mil under full compression.

But it also had chain growth - as the rear wheel moved ever further rearward than the BB did.

Jim Busby was the first bicycle suspension designer I ever heard use the term "antisquat" and it was in regards to the idrive.

now, if you take those measurements I just gave you and go measure a current edition 4.5" travel idrive - I think you'll find the suspension is doing the same thing - just in different packaging.

With bicycle suspension you can't focus on looks - 2 bikes may look the same (VPP and DW for example) and work totally different. Or in the case of current and OG idrive - look different and work the same.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> Bicycling is a roadie magazine, of course they liked URTS. JFC. And are you full of **** or what? First you say URTs were the best, when pressed, you reneg, now you're back at it. Your ignorance is amazing
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


iheartbicycles, this right here is a very valid point! I said that in my best Robert De Niro voice.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> You misunderstand how the idrive worked.
> 
> The measurement from the seat to the bb did change - the bb dropped slightly under compression. This means when standing, you actually have slighly more leverage and slightly more travel. It was only something like 10-15 milimeters at full compression.
> 
> ...


Well I'm taking your word as fact as it seems you have the best knowledge of these old designs. I having owned an early I-drive remember reading that the bottom bracket and seat always remained the same. Apparently what I read years ago was false. Either way the early I-drive was a marvelous design and it climbed very efficiently.

I, by no means claim to be an expert in any suspension new or the earlier designs. I know some about all but everything about few. You however have obviously studied and worked on most older designs in depth.

The early I-drive design is definitely a hard concept to understand in how it works. All I know is through experience it really does perform well put on the right platform of a lightweight frame. Of course I only had experience of riding one in dry So. Cal. Conditions. I never experienced the gunk up of the I-drive eccentric as some have experienced. I'm sure that design was problematic in wetter conditions.

I think if Pacific went forward with what GT was trying to accomplish by beefing up the seat mast and keeping the old original I- drive design it would have turned into a long running design and even improved on.

Instead Pacific took the name and changed the design completely.

The original design with the eccentric issues could have easily been fixed using plastic protective caps to protect that area from foreign debris collecting and gunking up. The seat mast just needed some beefing up is all.

It's true I'm a bit, and have been a bit pissed off at Pacifics decision to completely change the design after GT's BK. Why Pacific didn't take the original i-drive design and improve it is beyond me. Holding on to the original i-drive name and changing the design is not right. Give the new design a new name and stop hiding behind Jim Busbys original design and concept. You say it does the same thing in different packaging, I have yet to see that. Maybe side by side graphs of suspension movement between the two designs would sell me. Maybe it does work the same but in my mind if it did this suspension design would have rave reviews moving forward.

You are obviously more versed in these earlier designs. Is there a graph showing the same movement between the old original I-drive and the later version named I-drive that shows the same movement in different packaging?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> Dirtjunkie pines for the days of american made GT's. I don't blame him for liking what GT did in Santa Ana - but the original idrive was flawed - and he's never gotten over it.


DJ, all this time I never knew you suffered a jammed camel over this! Unjam your camel and just let it go.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Well I'm taking your word as fact as it seems you have the best knowledge of these old designs. I having owned an early I-drive remember reading that the bottom bracket and seat always remained the same. Apparently what I read years ago was false. Either way the early I-drive was a marvelous design and it climbed very efficiently.
> 
> I, by no means claim to be an expert in any suspension new or the earlier designs. I know some about all but everything about few. You however have obviously studied and worked on most older designs in depth.
> 
> ...


I wanted to understand how it worked - so I took the time to take measurements. I did the same thing with specialized and a few other bikes.

I really do like the idrive - but they are so much more durable now.

GT's Santa Ana factory put out awesome bikes. I love their CNC everything. I had a zaskar that had CNC'd headtube, bottom bracket, drop outs, seat collar - everything. They spent lots of time creating badass bikes. I dont think most people realize what they did back then.

And they were the only company to simultaneously build aluminum, carbon, titanium and steel in house, in America.

But it is what it is. Atleast the idrive is still around and still competetive.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Why didn't anyone ever come up with a good suspension design where the pivot, pivots around the BB. And then you could use a couple links to control the shock rate through its travel.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Why didn't anyone ever come up with a good suspension design where the pivot, pivots around the BB. And then you could use a couple links to control the shock rate through its travel.


because that's an inherently bad design.

lenz, cove rotec and others did it (blanking on the last one).

you get zero antisquat with this design and they pedal horribly.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

iheartbicycles said:


> This has so much wrong with it.
> 
> Schwinn Homegrown does not mean URT. They put homegrown labels on hardtails, too.
> 
> ...


My post was in response to the statement by Mountain Cycle Shawn saying Schwinn was never considered a top brand. It had nothing to do with you. But since you think it's all about you, let's talk about how wrong you are. One of the reasons Sweetspot bikes were so popular is because they pedaled like hardtails. Many people weren't ready for active suspension, so the Sweetspot appealled to them.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> My post was in response to the statement by Mountain Cycle Shawn saying Schwinn was never considered a top brand. It had nothing to do with you. But since you think it's all about you, let's talk about how wrong you are. One of the reasons Sweetspot bikes were so popular is because they pedaled like hardtails. Many people weren't ready for active suspension, so the Sweetspot appealled to them.


They were never popular and Schwinn was never a top brand in the MTB industry.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> My post was in response to the statement by Mountain Cycle Shawn saying Schwinn was never considered a top brand. It had nothing to do with you. But since you think it's all about you, let's talk about how wrong you are. One of the reasons Sweetspot bikes were so popular is because they pedaled like hardtails. Many people weren't ready for active suspension, so the Sweetspot appealled to them.


you know what else pedals like hardtails? Hardtails.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Schwinn slapped the Homegrown name on a number of bikes, even HTs. The Sweetspot UTR was never considered, I'll give you one mag article, to be anywhere near the best. In fact it was near the bottom of the pile.


Yeah. You said Schwinn was never a top brand. You were wrong. I never said all Homegrowns were Sweetspot suspension.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> because that's an inherently bad design.
> 
> lenz, cove rotec and others did it (blanking on the last one).
> 
> you get zero antisquat with this design and they pedal horribly.


I would think one could combine it with some modern technology to make it work.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

stochastic said:


> No. Just no. This is nonsense.


You're wrong, too.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Yeah. You said Schwinn was never a top brand. You were wrong. I never said all Homegrowns were Sweetspot suspension.


Not when it comes to FS MTBs.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I would think one could combine it with some modern technology to make it work.


think about this.

if you're relying on the shock and some linkage to dial out bob - think about what you're doing to small bump activity.

We've learned the lesson of propedal and others - it hurts small bump sensitivy.

and with proper antisquat it only hits you when you need it - pedalling.

If you create some linkage that's initially stiffer - then softens up - this is going to effect you when coasting and all the time.

Proper antisquat is a much better way to go.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Yeah. You said Schwinn was never a top brand. You were wrong. I never said all Homegrowns were Sweetspot suspension.


No, but you tried to switch your opinion from the Sweetspot to all thier suspension designs. It didn't work. People aren't stupid around here.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Boulder Pilot said:


> My 1994 Boulder Defient. Check out the Grafton Joysticks cranks. This bike gets outdoors about once every two months. Very fun ride.


I have a NOS 1993 Boulder Intrepid in my garage. NOS and cracked (!) thanks to Easton ProGram tubing.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

stochastic said:


> Me: years of experience on a URT
> 
> You: "I've never ridden a Sweetspot bike, but I've ridden most other designs. "
> 
> You don't know what your posting about. URTs do not ride like hardtails.


No, but they do ride like ****!


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> No, but you tried to switch your opinion from the Sweetspot to all thier suspension designs. It didn't work. People aren't stupid around here.


No, I did not. You still can't read, that's all it comes down to.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

stochastic said:


> Me: years of experience on a URT
> 
> You: "I've never ridden a Sweetspot bike, but I've ridden most other designs. "
> 
> You don't know what your posting about. URTs do not ride like hardtails.


Yes, when you stand up they do. That was the whole point of the design. For all of your experience riding them, you really don't understand them.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Not when it comes to FS MTBs.


You didn't say that.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Yes, when you stand up they do. That was the whole point of the design. For all of your experience riding them, you really don't understand them.


Strange, I've never had a hardtail frame compress when I stand on it and bounce.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

stochastic said:


> See my previous post, that was nuked by a mod with a sandy mangina, where I note just that. They did not ride like a hardtail when standing up, there was still suspension movement, albeit they were much stiffer than when you were seated.
> 
> The fact remains that they were active while seated. After all that time on one, actually riding one, I certainly understand how poor the design is.
> 
> Why are you defending such a flawed design?


It was supposed to be 400% stiffer when standing in an effort to make it feel more like a hardtail for riders that were iffy on the whole full-suspension thing. I don't care what people think about the design. I got into this discussion because somebody called another poster stupid for what was ultimately a correct statement.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> because that's an inherently bad design.
> 
> lenz, cove rotec and others did it (blanking on the last one).
> 
> you get zero antisquat with this design and they pedal horribly.


This one had a concentric lower pivot, made by Profile Racing, but Iron Horse raced it during at least one season. Had a steel rear end and the rear end "frame members" were basically just lengthened profile crank arms. Damn heavy of course. Although this could generate a different amount of AS than zero, it was still a crappy design and there's just no good reason to do it.

I rode some of the concentric pivot bikes at interbike. Yep, horrible pedaling.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> You didn't say that.


Oh yes I did! And, I'd go further and say that when it comes to high end bicycles of any kind, Schwinn has made nothing but ****! They should stick to making cheap ass bicycles.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Oh yes I did! And, I'd go further and say that when it comes to high end bicycles of any kind, Schwinn has made nothing but ****! They should stick to making cheap ass bicycles.


there was a brief window around 1998 where Schwinn was making stuff in USA - and they had some nice hand built hardtails.

They never had a decent XC full suss bike. Those few successes they did have where when they were co-owned with yeti.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I got into this discussion because somebody called another poster stupid for what was ultimately a correct statement.


Seeing how I've seen nobody but myself in this thread having been called stupid, I'll take that as a compliment.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Finished the Santa Cruz. It belongs to a friend of a friend. I put new tubes in the tires, replaced the broken front brake hose, bled it and replaced both shifter cables. 
Works great. Returned it to him today. He was thrilled.

Looks tiny as hell next to my bike.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> there was a brief window around 1998 where Schwinn was making stuff in USA - and they had some nice hand built hardtails.
> 
> They never had a decent XC full suss bike. Those few successes they did have where when they were co-owned with yeti.


Although, I appreciate made in the USA, Schwinn never made any mountain bike that was better or even close preformance wise to anything else on the market. I honestly don't know why anyone would by one when there were always better alternatives.



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Seeing how I've seen nobody but myself in this thread having been called stupid, I'll take that as a compliment.


If it makes you feel any better, you're one of my stupid friends!


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

iheartbicycles said:


> there was a brief window around 1998 where Schwinn was making stuff in USA - and they had some nice hand built hardtails.
> 
> They never had a decent XC full suss bike. Those few successes they did have where when they were co-owned with yeti.


Not sure I want to step into this but&#8230;

Schwinn didn't make those hardtails (Home Grown), Yeti did and then I think someone else did. So I guess you are kind of correct, they may have been making stuff in the USA and had some nice hardtails - but they weren't making those nice hardtails.

But I will give you props for the MVSD in your sig.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

chazpat said:


> Not sure I want to step into this but&#8230;
> 
> Schwinn didn't make those hardtails (Home Grown), Yeti did and then I think someone else did. So I guess you are kind of correct, they may have been making stuff in the USA and had some nice hardtails - but they weren't making those nice hardtails.
> 
> But I will give you props for the MVSD in your sig.


I dont pretend to be an expert on late 90's schwinns....


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

chazpat said:


> But I will give you props for the MVSD in your sig.


It should be MVSDD!


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Yes, when you stand up they do. That was the whole point of the design. For all of your experience riding them, you really don't understand them.


Your legs are not solid. they have joints.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Relevant and fun for this thread:

8 mountain bike tech fails that their manufacturers wish you'd forget - BikeRadar


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> Relevant and fun for this thread:
> 
> 8 mountain bike tech fails that their manufacturers wish you'd forget - BikeRadar


The White PSRT-1, was quite a contraption. I remember when that was all the talk in the mtb mags. And then the Slingshot, I'm thinking there's not too many of those left that didn't snap in half.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Oh yes I did! And, I'd go further and say that when it comes to high end bicycles of any kind, Schwinn has made nothing but ****! They should stick to making cheap ass bicycles.


You just said it again!


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Your legs are not solid. they have joints.


What does that have to do with anything?



chazpat said:


> Schwinn didn't make those hardtails (Home Grown), Yeti did and then I think someone else did. So I guess you are kind of correct, they may have been making stuff in the USA and had some nice hardtails - but they weren't making those nice hardtails.


Yeti made the Factory Homegrowns, but not the regular Homegrowns. ControlTech was rumored to make some, but all Homegrowns were made in the USA.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Yeti made the Factory Homegrowns, but not the regular Homegrowns. ControlTech was rumored to make some, but all Homegrowns were made in the USA.


Maybe that's where they got the name for them.


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2016)

imma home grown what of it yo!!!


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Oh yes I did! And, I'd go further and say that when it comes to high end bicycles of any kind, Schwinn has made nothing but ****! They should stick to making cheap ass bicycles.


In the mid-90's through 2001 (the Colorado years) Schwinn Homegrowns absolutely were high end and sought after.

Yeti built the Factory Hardtails and initially Control Tech and then Anodizing Inc. built the non-Factory hardtails and Sweetspots. They rode really well, looked great, and were light.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

There is still a niche where I think the Sweetspot is still a good design: single speed XC full suspension. 

I have one built up, as do three of my friends, and they do really well in that niche. As a URT you don't need to use a spring tensioner (mine uses an Eno Eccentric hub). The fact it stiffens up when you stand is a very good thing when grinding up hills. At only 3.75" of travel is does just enough to make the ride comfy, while muting the design's bad habits, even more so with a 100mm fork on the front.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> In the mid-90's through 2001 (the Colorado years) Schwinn Homegrowns absolutely were high end and sought after.
> 
> Yeti built the Factory Hardtails and initially Control Tech and then Anodizing Inc. built the non-Factory hardtails and Sweetspots. They rode really well, looked great, and were light.


Only in your own head bra!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> There is still a niche where I think the Sweetspot is still a good design: single speed XC full suspension.
> 
> I have one built up, as do three of my friends, and they do really well in that niche. As a URT you don't need to use a spring tensioner (mine uses an Eno Eccentric hub). The fact it stiffens up when you stand is a very good thing when grinding up hills. At only 3.75" of travel is does just enough to make the ride comfy, while muting the design's bad habits, even more so with a 100mm fork on the front.


That's a small niche. And you don't need one to run a FS as a single speed. You don't get out much and ride modern bikes, do you?


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's a small niche. And you don't need one to run a FS as a single speed. You don't get out much and ride modern bikes, do you?


I didn't say it was a big niche, but the Sweetspot does work well in it. There's only a handful of full suspension bikes which work as a single speed without a spring tensioner, and I think the Sweetspot works the best out of that handful.

While I've had plenty of opportunity to ride more modern bikes, I'll go with what works best for how I ride and where I ride.

EDIT: By Sweetspot I mean the Schwinn Sweetspot.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

bad mechanic said:


> I didn't say it was a big niche, but the Sweetspot does work well in it. There's only a handful of full suspension bikes which work as a single speed without a spring tensioner, and I think the Sweetspot works the best out of that handful.
> 
> While I've had plenty of opportunity to ride more modern bikes, I'll go with what works best for how I ride and where I ride.


You're pretty limited if you want a full sus single speed. Kona A and Castellano Zorro and Bow Ti.

The new Bow Ti built by Steve Potts is beautiful - but it's still junk - inasmuch as it's still a sweet spot urt. The craftsmanship is amazing, though.

I've ridden with john castellano several times and have seen his zorro out there on the trail.

Frankly the guys from that era just don't seem to understand suspension all that well.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> I didn't say it was a big niche, but the Sweetspot does work well in it. There's only a handful of full suspension bikes which work as a single speed without a spring tensioner, and I think the Sweetspot works the best out of that handful.
> 
> While I've had plenty of opportunity to ride more modern bikes, I'll go with what works best for how I ride and where I ride.


You'd have to be extremely delusional or have no MTB knowledge to believe that. A URT would be a very poor choice for any combo of rider and/or terrain.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

iheartbicycles said:


> You're pretty limited if you want a full sus single speed. Kona A and Castellano Zorro and Bow Ti.


Yup, and you need to make compromises either way you go. Honestly, I think of the Sweetspot as more of a SS XC soft tail than a full suspension.

EDIT: By Sweetspot I mean the Schwinn Sweetspot.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> You'd have to be extremely delusional or have no MTB knowledge to believe that. A URT would be a very poor choice for any combo of rider and/or terrain.


I don't understand why this seems so personal for you.

It's also pretty arrogant to assume you know what's best for all riders on all terrain.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> I don't understand why this seems so personal for you.
> 
> It's also pretty arrogant to assume you know what's best for all riders on all terrain.


He's a pretty arrogant guy.


----------



## Resident Alien (Jun 1, 2007)

...and you're a sad, internet imbecile who has nothing better to do than annoy people on mtbr. though i doubt many people pay attention.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

stochastic said:


> Did you know that Sweetspot bikes weren't all short travel? That the design was licensed to a bunch of companies?
> 
> IMO, 5" of rear travel wasn't anywhere near "XC" back in the day...


I think this one was ajustable up to 6"


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mountainbiker24 said:


> He's a pretty arrogant guy.


No, I'm just not stupid!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Resident Alien said:


> ...and you're a sad, internet imbecile who has nothing better to do than annoy people on mtbr. though i doubt many people pay attention.


Who's that directed towards?


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> No, I'm just not stupid!


I wouldnt be so sure of that... ;-)


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Alright boys lets get back on track.

Post up some old full suspension bikes. Talk about different suspension designs but stop going at eachother with name calling. Everybody has an opinion on every topic let's try to respect each other in this thread. I started this thread because I love the history of mtb and especially the history of different older suspension designs. I like to see what's still being used and even photos of past rides.

It seems the Sweet Spot design has really started some controversy. It's part of mtb suspension history. Whether you believe it or any other design to be crap keep the name calling out of it please.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

iheartbicycles said:


> I wouldnt be so sure of that... ;-)


Hey, I was sticking up for you!



DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Alright boys lets get back on track.
> 
> Post up some old full suspension bikes. Talk about different suspension designs but stop going at eachother with name calling. Everybody has an opinion on every topic let's try to respect each other in this thread. I started this thread because I love the history of mtb and especially the history of different older suspension designs. I like to see what's still being used and even photos of past rides.
> 
> It seems the Sweet Spot design has really started some controversy. It's part of mtb suspension history. Whether you believe it or any other design to be crap keep the name calling out of it please.


Oh, so this whole thing is your stupid fault!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Oh, so this whole thing is your stupid fault!


Have you posted your stupid old Mountain Cycle in here yet? >>


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

And I thought the idea of a classic FS thread was purdy kewl. But then again, I do expect everyone in the forum to be good stewards of the sport we are so deeply addicted to. This is NOT OTN, be respectful and let's get a look at some geriatric mountain bikes that brought smiles to a rider's melon at some point in the past or even the present!! 

A thank you goes out to DirtJunkie for placing this thread here for us to show and see all the good ol bikes out there...


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Not a requirement but does reveal character of the author. On the other hand, leaving out some of the arrogance would be kinda doable, no?
Also have to ask for whom is this "truth" gospel?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Some of us still ride old squish bikes and love them. Old 4-Bar linkage still gets it done.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

stochastic said:


> Mountain top repair on a crappy old suspension design circa 2002. The brake/rim combo rocked though.
> 
> View attachment 1103005


What are we seeing here?


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I'll be keeping the old Turners on the trails for years to come. I prefer to take the 98 Stinger to the classic bike rides that take place here cause there are some ancient bikes that come out that have been dutifully restored and damn it, they are all bytchen!


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> What are we seeing here?


I want to say possibly the greatest ever seatpost bodge?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Notched said:


> I want to say possibly the greatest ever seatpost bodge?


At first I thought it was a Maverick but they used different shocks.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

stochastic said:


> If you can't figure it out then you really, really should not be commenting on Sweetspot bikes at all. Or you need new glasses. Or both.


Probably both, my brother has a Sweet Spot, did you skim that?


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

stochastic said:


> Are you really this fragile in real life? Sheesh.
> 
> I think that the folks that actually rode the bikes in question understand what the truth is (as opposed to folks that are posting ancient magazine articles as "gospel," and who have never ridden the bikes being discussed).


Oh brother, You may as well head over to OTN and hang out there. Yes there was a great deal of failed attempts at suspension and most of the companies are defunct other than big brother bikes. There have been plenty of poor designs, so bloody what!

Magazines cannot replace the real world nor observations of an engineer...


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Still gets ridden weekly.
I've actually picked up another one to build up for my brother. (regular enduro not SX)
04 Enduro SX by Chazz Michael Michaels, on Flickr


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Whatever dude get over yourself. That last post was sarcasm trying to get you to lighten up.

Have we talked about these two designs yet?

The Maverick









Or the Foes Fly.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Whatever dude get over yourself. That last post was sarcasm trying to get you to lighten up.
> 
> Have we talked about these two designs yet?
> 
> ...


Why are you posting pictures of my bike online? this is a clear violation of privacy rules.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> Why are you posting pictures of my bike online? this is a clear violation of privacy rules.


I always loved the looks of the Fly. Never heard much on reviews of it though.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> At first I thought it was a Maverick but they used different shocks.


See, this kind of comment makes me wonder if you're really a mountain biker - or just a poorly configured bot.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

stochastic said:


> Oh, did not realize that there was crazy stalker stuff going on. I'll edit my post.


Not you, him.

it's your bike, too!


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> See, this kind of comment makes me wonder if you're really a mountain biker - or just a poorly configured bot.


Lol
Why so uptight? I realize there are a few that have ridden quite a few of these old designs. You seem to be one of them. All I was doing was asking if you have ridden one or heard much on reviews of that design. So there's something wrong with liking the looks of a bike?


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I always loved the looks of the Fly. Never heard much on reviews of it though.


It's a fvcking Foes. The monocoque tunnel was known to crack. I think later years used thicker sheet metal.

it was a good downhill bike - but you could put a front derrailleur on it - if you were crazy enough to pedal a 45 pound DH bike on XC rides. A buddy of mine did exactly that.

I always liked the curnutt. They werent perfect - but they did a good job turning a simple single pivot into something you could pedal - without having to flip levers.

I bought my first foes fly from a guy named peter fagerlin. he's a local guy here in the bay area. I think he has a blog or something.

I still have a 2004 foes fly. maybe I'll post pics.


----------



## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Lol
> Why so uptight? I realize there are a few that have ridden quite a few of these old designs. You seem to be one of them. All I was doing was asking if you have ridden one or heard much on reviews of that design. So there's something wrong with liking the looks of a bike?


I just can't fathom how one might confuse an ibis bow ti for a maverick. it's seriously WTF.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Yeah I remember he was a popular poster on here years ago.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Yeah I remember he was a popular poster on here years ago.


yah. too bad about that car accident. I heard his porsche was crushed to within 16" thick top to bottom.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> I just can't fathom how one might confuse an ibis bow ti for a maverick. it's seriously WTF.


No **** what a dumb ass. He's going to bed now. It's obvious you two are old buds and get off on putting others down.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

iheartbicycles said:


> yah. too bad about that car accident. I heard his porsche was crushed to within 16" thick top to bottom.


Sorry, I didn't realize.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> No **** what a dumb ass. He's going to bed now. It's obvious you two are old buds and get off on putting others down.


Hey dude. Don't be so butthurt about not knowing anything about old bikes. Most people don't.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Or the Foes Fly.
> 
> View attachment 1103018


Foes in those days was pretty bad behind the flashy red bikes IME. Brent could make a stiff bike (like every single detail was conceived to make it stiffer), but that was about it. The suspension action was horrible, and the huge curnut shock didn't make things any better, in fact, it made them worse than a comparable mainstream shock like a DHX. Going to the crazy low leverage made bearing drag and shaft stiction a much bigger deal, then the spring tolerances had to be much tighter (25lb incriments or less) and the "platform technology" simply made it ride like a jackhammer. Kept bending shock bolts on the RFX because brent used 5" long skinny bolt through the scissor link that secured the shock, just no way something that long and skinny wouldn't bend over time, so bend it did. I wanted to like my foes, but it was woefully under-designed in most suspension aspects. One of the few bikes I've owned that felt like it was trying to snap itself in half when riding through bumps.

To be fair, Foes seems to have turned this completely around these days, using linkages to actually modify the rates now, offering mainstream shock choices, with suspension kinematics that don't rely on something that'll ignore bumps, and so on.

I sent the curnut shock back 3x basically asking "is this for real?", as far as the action/performance. Worst $500+ I ever spent on suspension.

You can see the foes hiding out behind the green IH machine. If you look close, you'll notice the DHX on there. I got my hands on the DHX right when it was released. It was much less horrible than the curnut. The sand-colored Marzocchi All Mountain was also pretty terrible. It was like a Jr T damper with a bladder around it, basically no point. Marzocchi's stuff was crude as hell up until they started doing the Evo dampers.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Jayem said:


> Foes in those days was crap IME, brent could make a stiff bike, but that was about it. The suspension action was horrible, and the huge curnut shock didn't make things any better, in fact, it made them worse than a comparable mainstream shock like a DHX. Going to the crazy low leverage made bearing drag and shaft stiction a much bigger deal, then the spring tolerances had to be much tighter (25lb incriments or less) and the "platform technology" simply made it ride like a jackhammer. Kept bending shock bolts because brent used 5" long skinny bolt through the scissor link that secured the shock, just no way something that long and skinny wouldn't bend over time, so bend it did. I wanted to like my foes, but it was woefully under-designed in most suspension aspects.
> 
> To be fair, Foes seems to have turned this completely around these days, using linkages to actually modify the rates now, offering mainstream shock choices, with suspension kinematics that don't rely on something that'll ignore bumps, and so on.
> 
> I sent the curnut shock back 3x basically asking "is this for real?", as far as the action/performance.


I didnt have the experience you did. This is my foes fly in the pic. I really liked that bike.

I also had a 2004 FSR and liked that bike, too.

I think it was a matter of dealing with the curnutt and realizing its benefits (pedalling capability, big bump capability) or wanting more fine tuning.

Realize also that the DHX didnt come out for a few years.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

stochastic said:


> Why is being factual and helpful "putting others down"?
> 
> 26k posts and you're this thin-skinned? Laud 'o mighty!


Wondering if he thinks post count = knowledge? Cause it clearly doesnt.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> Foes in those days was crap IME, brent could make a stiff bike, but that was about it. The suspension action was horrible, and the huge curnut shock didn't make things any better, in fact, it made them worse than a comparable mainstream shock like a DHX. Going to the crazy low leverage made bearing drag and shaft stiction a much bigger deal, then the spring tolerances had to be much tighter (25lb incriments or less) and the "platform technology" simply made it ride like a jackhammer. Kept bending shock bolts because brent used 5" long skinny bolt through the scissor link that secured the shock, just no way something that long and skinny wouldn't bend over time, so bend it did. I wanted to like my foes, but it was woefully under-designed in most suspension aspects.
> 
> To be fair, Foes seems to have turned this completely around these days, using linkages to actually modify the rates now, offering mainstream shock choices, with suspension kinematics that don't rely on something that'll ignore bumps, and so on.
> 
> I sent the curnut shock back 3x basically asking "is this for real?", as far as the action/performance.


Good to hear some input on it from someone with experience, thanks. I just don't remember much talk on how they were. I guess going into the Foes forum would have produced that.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Have you posted your stupid old Mountain Cycle in here yet? >>


****, I can't remember! Hey, can you post that picture of your late dog and your bike. That's a great picture! I gotta go to bed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> I also had a 2004 FSR and liked that bike, too.
> 
> I think it was a matter of dealing with the curnutt and realizing its benefits (*big bump capability*}


What does that mean? If you ride it at full speed into a 5" high rock? That's a pretty damn big bump, enough to toast a rim if you do it right. I've never really understood what people mean when they say this. Or do you mean like landing a jump as a "big bump"? It's few and far between that bikes aren't able to do this, especially old coil bikes, more an issue with newer air-shock bikes with excessively flat mid-stroke.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

last weekend...another one of those sh*tty suspension set ups...still better than a URT


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Jayem said:


> What does that mean? If you ride it at full speed into a 5" high rock? That's a pretty damn big bump, enough to toast a rim if you do it right. I've never really understood what people mean when they say this. Or do you mean like landing a jump as a "big bump"? It's few and far between that bikes aren't able to do this, especially old coil bikes, more an issue with newer air-shock bikes with excessively flat mid-stroke.


JM, you edited my quote.

I said pedalling capability AND big bump capability. IE - a long travel bike that pedals.

Foes is one of the few single pivots to do a good job at this - IMHO.

You and I have disagreed on this for the last 10 or so years.

I understand you liked the DHX. I bought one and put it on the foes and didnt like it. The foes' shock rate doesnt lend itself to other shocks. The 2:1 bikes were basically made to work with Curnutt - which has a flat curve - not a rising rate.

I really liked my curnutt equipped Foes. You didnt.

That's that.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

That Maverick is an interesting design. I had a Palomino that rode really well. I saw a Seven Ti version of the Maverick on ebay, and was mildly tempted. Still am, a bit. Hmm, off to check...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Does it have a DUC32?


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> That Maverick is an interesting design. I had a Palomino that rode really well. I saw a Seven Ti version of the Maverick on ebay, and was mildly tempted. Still am, a bit. Hmm, off to check...


The maverick is a modified URT the same way the idrive is - except in the case of the idrive they turned the URT's negatives on its head - by making it more plush when standing.

In the case of the Maverick they kept the standard URT attribute of stiffening when you stand.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

seat_boy said:


> That Maverick is an interesting design. I had a Palomino that rode really well. I saw a Seven Ti version of the Maverick on ebay, and was mildly tempted. Still am, a bit. Hmm, off to check...


I bought a used Palomino back in the day, as my anti-Enduro bike. It was totally different than my Enduro, which attracted me to it, but so harsh on downhills. I rode it on some extended downhills east of San Diego a few times and it was punishing. I never rode a "suspension" that would hit things so hard, it was like a baseball bat to a rock. "Bam! Bam! Bam! I just hung on but after a few rides like that I just took it on easier stuff. Did a race out of Julian once with it, and it was awesome for climbing up the Banner Grade, but pretty harrowing going down Chariot and Rodriguez canyons. After all the issues with the monolink I ended up parting it out and selling to a guy who wanted to make an SS of it. A fun experiment on which I almost broke even.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cjsb said:


> I bought a used Palomino back in the day, as my anti-Enduro bike. It was totally different than my Enduro, which attracted me to it, but so harsh on downhills. I rode it on some extended downhills east of San Diego a few times and it was punishing. I never rode a "suspension" that would hit things so hard, it was like a baseball bat to a rock. "Bam! Bam! Bam! I just hung on but after a few rides like that I just took it on easier stuff. Did a race out of Julian once with it, and it was awesome for climbing up the Banner Grade, but pretty harrowing going down Chariot and Rodriguez canyons. After all the issues with the monolink I ended up parting it out and selling to a guy who wanted to make an SS of it. A fun experiment on which I almost broke even.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The extended downhill you were referring to wouldn't happen to be Noble Canyon? That downhill would test any suspension design. .


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The extended downhill you were referring to wouldn't happen to be Noble Canyon? That downhill would test any suspension design. .


I never rode the Palomino down Noble. I took it on the Grand Loop a couple times. if you did it counter clockwise the ride ended with about a 7 mile downhill. Although it might be one of those downhills of a thousand climbs.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

cjsb said:


> I never rode the Palomino down Noble. I took it on the Grand Loop a couple times. if you did it counter clockwise the ride ended with about a 7 mile downhill. Although it might be one of those downhills of a thousand climbs.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hmm I never did get to ride that trail.


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## theruns (Jul 25, 2016)

My current Downhill bike:



2005 Trek Session 77 with a good few mods. Still a very fun bike!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

stochastic said:


> Hopefully not. The DUC32 had really poor compression and rebound control and was flexy. It was really light though.


Although I'm aware of all that, I still kinda want one...


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## bikepackingdude (Mar 25, 2010)

The runs that's a sic session you have there!! I have the silver one of that same year 


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cjsb said:


> I bought a used Palomino back in the day, as my anti-Enduro bike. It was totally different than my Enduro, which attracted me to it, but so harsh on downhills. I rode it on some extended downhills east of San Diego a few times and it was punishing. I never rode a "suspension" that would hit things so hard, it was like a baseball bat to a rock. "Bam! Bam! Bam! I just hung on but after a few rides like that I just took it on easier stuff. Did a race out of Julian once with it, and it was awesome for climbing up the Banner Grade, but pretty harrowing going down Chariot and Rodriguez canyons. After all the issues with the monolink I ended up parting it out and selling to a guy who wanted to make an SS of it. A fun experiment on which I almost broke even.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That suspension design was supposed to be Paul Turner's end-game product, to rule all suspension designs. I remember him hyping it up on some prototype designs back before the Maverick actually came out. Like Pete or whomever said, these guys were sniffing glue back then. So much crap was thrown at the wall to see what would stick when you can get a better bike than 99.99% of all the stuff with just a simple kona-style 4 bar/ventana/tnt/trek linkage. All this crap to come up with the ultimate design with things like the bow-ti, sweet-spot URTs, Klein Mantra, and other failed ideas just blows my mind, in that suspension design was far enough along during those years to not have to ride these crazy designs. Lots of decent stuff was available, but never as "exotic" as these, yet it seems like any time you went for these "exotic" frames, you became a sucker. Like GWB said, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...well...can't get fooled again! Of course, if you look hard enough you can find some crazy stuff going on today that you should stay far far away from. No doubt, they'll sucker in a few of us.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

iheartbicycles said:


> JM, you edited my quote.
> 
> I said pedalling capability AND big bump capability. IE - a long travel bike that pedals.
> 
> ...


I wasn't trying to edit your quote, I was trying to understand what you meant by "big bump". I hear this thrown around a lot and I don't know what it refers to exactly, high speed or low shaft speed, sharp edged rocks or big hucks, it just seems such a vague term, and then, how does it apply to the Foes (what are you describing?).

Isn't it the other way around though?, the curnut has a rising rate, because the foes bikes themselves were linear or falling rate. That was one of the basic premises of CV/T. In fact, you could adjust the progressiveness on the curnut shock, using the knob adjustment, right? It's not that I liked the DHX, I said it sucked a lot less than the curnut, the fact that it worked better and didn't weigh 5lbs was an additional benefit.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem said:


> That suspension design was supposed to be Paul Turner's end-game product, to rule all suspension designs. I remember him hyping it up on some prototype designs back before the Maverick actually came out. Like Pete or whomever said, these guys were sniffing glue back then. So much crap was thrown at the wall to see what would stick when you can get a better bike than 99.99% of all the stuff with just a simple kona-style 4 bar/ventana/tnt/trek linkage. All this crap to come up with the ultimate design with things like the bow-ti, sweet-spot URTs, Klein Mantra, and other failed ideas just blows my mind, in that suspension design was far enough along during those years to not have to ride these crazy designs. Lots of decent stuff was available, but never as "exotic" as these, yet it seems like any time you went for these "exotic" frames, you became a sucker. Like GWB said, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...well...can't get fooled again! Of course, if you look hard enough you can find some crazy stuff going on today that you should stay far far away from. No doubt, they'll sucker in a few of us.


Yes but it sure is interesting to go back in time and look at all the designs. So many were crap and few carried forward. I'm still on a 4-bar design with my older Intense and it works great. The times of hurried designs to make it to market before the next company has passed. There will always be new designs coming out but not like there was 10 to 20 years ago.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Jayem said:


> That suspension design was supposed to be Paul Turner's end-game product, to rule all suspension designs. I remember him hyping it up on some prototype designs back before the Maverick actually came out. Like Pete or whomever said, these guys were sniffing glue back then. So much crap was thrown at the wall to see what would stick when you can get a better bike than 99.99% of all the stuff with just a simple kona-style 4 bar/ventana/tnt/trek linkage. All this crap to come up with the ultimate design with things like the bow-ti, sweet-spot URTs, Klein Mantra, and other failed ideas just blows my mind, in that suspension design was far enough along during those years to not have to ride these crazy designs. Lots of decent stuff was available, but never as "exotic" as these, yet it seems like any time you went for these "exotic" frames, you became a sucker. Like GWB said, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...well...can't get fooled again! Of course, if you look hard enough you can find some crazy stuff going on today that you should stay far far away from. No doubt, they'll sucker in a few of us.


As I remember that Palomino, consistent with your comments on the poor design, I recall forums or maybe it was FAQ, but I think it may have been mtbr forums, discussing how it seemed like the rear shock "didn't work". There was complete contradicting recommendations probably both came from Maverick? One view was that shock should have only a Low psi in it, much lower than rec. for sag. The other extreme was it needed twice as much psi. What I found from experimenting is that it didn't matter. I do recall that the bike tracked pretty well and when I say I was "hanging on" it was more because the "bam" was so unnerving. I know that the shock casing /mount had reputation for cracking and after riding you could see why as something had to give with those impacts. I am Glad I Didn't lose my shirt on it.

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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I also recall Maverick as being a "innovator" or "Maverick". Back then. Hopefully it was more than just hype but there was a lot of hype around everything. Let's see, they had Speedball, a proprietary front hub maybe called 24/7 think it was tapered, some special stem for their special DuC inverted forks, monolinks, and probably others...I got interested when I met a guy while riding Sycamore canyon and he had a Demo ML678 don't recall number from. Beyond Bikes and he let me ride a couple miles. For a more flatter to rolling trail like sycamore that bike was impressive. 


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

A friend of mine ran a DUC32 on his Turner 5-Spot for a couple of years. He said it was fiexy and finicky. But in my opinion it sure was a piece of art to look at. Lightweight long travel, it's too bad they didn't address those issues and fix them. The flex is inherent to it being inverted and such long travel.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Jayem said:


> I wasn't trying to edit your quote, I was trying to understand what you meant by "big bump". I hear this thrown around a lot and I don't know what it refers to exactly, high speed or low shaft speed, sharp edged rocks or big hucks, it just seems such a vague term, and then, how does it apply to the Foes (what are you describing?).
> 
> Isn't it the other way around though?, the curnut has a rising rate, because the foes bikes themselves were linear or falling rate. That was one of the basic premises of CV/T. In fact, you could adjust the progressiveness on the curnut shock, using the knob adjustment, right? It's not that I liked the DHX, I said it sucked a lot less than the curnut, the fact that it worked better and didn't weigh 5lbs was an additional benefit.


We're saying the same thing about the Foes. The leverage ratio, compression curve, shock rate - what ever you want to call it (brent referred to it as shock rate) is flat or even falling. But when paired with the Curnutt, give you a nice rising rate feel - with a very plush mid-stroke.

So the frame and shock are very well paired together.

The DHX isn't well paired to the bike, IMO.

And yes - I think "big bump capability" is a thing. That diamonback you mentioned earlier - I had one of those - in the 6" version. It never felt like it had 6" travel. Probably for reasons described above - they probably never figured out the leverage ratio's and the bike suffered for it. You know as well as I do, that suspension curves make a huge difference in how a bike feels. you can have two 6" travel bikes and one can eat up bumps - and one can feel like it has 1/2 the travel it does.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

So big bump performance=feels like has more travel than indicated?

My V-link was a 3" one, the 6" ones didn't come till years later.


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## FowlerWheels (Nov 23, 2016)

2004 Cannondale Jekyll 600

Grew up as a kid loving 90s era Cannondales. To me, walking into a Cannondale dealer was like walking into a Porsche dealer and seeing 993 turbos, etc. something particularly special about the huge tubing, sanded welds, in house front. Forks, and my favorite part... "Handmade in the USA".

In 2014 I was able to acquire this 2004 model (updated frame design) in as new condition for an extremely good price.

Since then, I've made a few changes:

- 2.3" Pisgah tires 
- 720mm handlebars (25.4mm) 
- Terry Fly leather saddle
- Thomson Elite post
- XT 8000 brakes 
- basic Shimano clipless pedals

Riding what I dreamt of as a kid is a great feeling. It's a keeper!!










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## VT1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Still riding my VTOne! 




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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

The newest mtb in my stable: 2004 Fisher Cake. It was Fisher's "All Mountain" bike for that year with 130mm, single pivot travel, G2 geometry and a surprisingly dialed rear suspension with a replacement modern shock (came with a SPV). It can also fit big tires, but I use some smaller, but knobby 26x2.5" 800g ITS tires.

With its original low 12.6" BB and a newer longer, dual travel fork, the geo is not bad for 2004. With the fork in the 150mm setting the bike goes down hill just fine with a 67.5* HA, 25" TT, 16.4" CS and 440 reach. And, when I lower the fork the bike becomes much quicker with the steeper HA, and SA, longer reach and a lower center of gravity with the BB and stack both dropping.

Not sure why dual travel forks are not more popular as they sure change the dynamics of the bike by allowing you to maximize geometry on the fly.

Old photos from a couple years ago without dropper.


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

Finally got around to taking some pictures of my 2005 Klein Palomino. This bike gets ridden in spirts when I get tired of climbing and just want to run around on some xc trails. Ethan at The Flow Zone keeps it running for me. Just found the metallic blue R1 brakes, wanted to get a couple of rides on them before I committed. I have some new hoses coming since while the white doesn't look terrible, I don't like it.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

bridgestone14 said:


> Finally got around to taking some pictures of my 2005 Klein Palomino.


I don't really care what anyone says about flex but I _love_ single crown upside down forks.
To think I had 3 sets of Marzocchi Shiver SCs at one point!


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

That's one heck of a bike! Wow. I'd keep riding that too 


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

So awhile back I wanted to build up a bike for my brother who expressed an interest in riding. So looking at my parts bin and spare forks I set about finding a frame.
The first, the blue Enduro frame was advertised as a medium frame. However it was actually a small. As it was in another part of the country I had a friend collect it and store it, so there wasn't much to do about it.
Anyway, too small for him to ride. So I picked up the 06 frame, complete with two shocks and a packet of new bearings.
So I've now built it up and it's time to get rowdy on it.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Its 2017. Can we at least all finally agree that the sweetspot was terrible?


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> Its 2017. Can we at least all finally agree that the sweetspot was terrible?


Doesn't sound like much of a sweetspot!


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

my 2001 Rocket 88!


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## mtndude23 (Apr 18, 2012)

Got this guy a few weeks ago-just need to replace the fork seals.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

One Pivot said:


> Its 2017. Can we at least all finally agree that the sweetspot was terrible?


Nope! In fact, I'm taking my single speed Schwinn Sweetspot for a ride later today.


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