# Ebike propulsion failure



## shackleton450 (Jun 7, 2016)

I know nothing about Ebikes.So here's my question.A friend of mine has done some rides with a guy who owns a pair of Ebikes.My question to both was what happens if there's a failure of the "propulsion" system?No real amswer.Can you pedal freely although considering the weight that would be horrible.
Thanks,
Scott


----------



## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Assuming you mean motor or battery failure, that depends on the brand we are talking about. I’ve only ridden one brand Shimano when the battery died on me for going to far. It acts like any other mtb, except that it’s about 20lbs heavier. 

I can’t speak for other brands, but I heard some motors do not disconnect from the main drivetrain completely, giving a drag type of feeling when not powered up. You’ll need to be more specific with your question as to what brand motor are we talking about?


----------



## shackleton450 (Jun 7, 2016)

mtbbiker said:


> Assuming you mean motor or battery failure, that depends on the brand we are talking about. I've only ridden one brand Shimano when the battery died on me for going to far. It acts like any other mtb, except that it's about 20lbs heavier.
> 
> I can't speak for other brands, but I heard some motors do not disconnect from the main drivetrain completely, giving a drag type of feeling when not powered up. You'll need to be more specific with your question as to what brand motor are we talking about?


 I have no idea what bikes they ride.Like I said I know nothing about them.Next time I talk to him I'll get specifics.Thanks for the response.


----------



## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

What happens if you're riding an enduro or dual sport motorcycle deep in the woods in the middle of nowhere and your motor locks up? You leave it there and come back to tow it out. Fortunately, thousands of people ride motorcycles all the time far away from any accessible roads, and very few end up in this scenario. At least with most e-bikes you have the option to pedal it out if the motor fails. Not to mention it's 200+ pounds lighter than the average light-weight enduro/dual sport motorcycle, in case you have to push or carry it out.


----------



## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

shackleton450 said:


> I know nothing about Ebikes.So here's my question.A friend of mine has done some rides with a guy who owns a pair of Ebikes.My question to both was what happens if there's a failure of the "propulsion" system?No real amswer.Can you pedal freely although considering the weight that would be horrible.
> Thanks,
> Scott


I wouldn't want to pedal my Yamaha PW-SE motor more than about five miles because the motor doesn't disengage and the extra inertia is pretty noticeable. In 2200 miles of riding I've only had to shorten one ride, because I was in an OHV area with steep hills and soft dry washes which demanded an unusual amount of battery energy.

But I'd lots rather push a 55 pound eBike with a dead battery uphill than a 260 pound motorcycle with an empty gas tank.


----------



## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

I recently slashed a rear tire on my e-bike and had to push the bike 5 miles back to my truck, which included over 1000ft of climbing. Good times. Pushing a 50lb e-bike uphill sucks. More direct to the OP though, I've been on long rides where I'll turn the motor off to preserve battery for the climb out at the end. The bike pedals just fine turned off.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

shackleton450 said:


> I know nothing about Ebikes.So here's my question.A friend of mine has done some rides with a guy who owns a pair of Ebikes.My question to both was what happens if there's a failure of the "propulsion" system?No real amswer.Can you pedal freely although considering the weight that would be horrible.
> Thanks,
> Scott


Meaning no disrespect you have no clue. You probably know what a rickshaw is, someone pulls people around like a taxi more popular in asia.
Well i did that but also pedaling a big tricycle and occasionaly the weight was 600 to 1,000 pounds. Things roll, off course the start is slower and we need gears for hills. Pedaling an Ebike without the assist is like you gained 30 pounds.


----------



## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

33red said:


> Meaning no disrespect you have no clue. You probably know what a rickshaw is, someone pulls people around like a taxi more popular in asia.
> Well i did that but also pedaling a big tricycle and occasionaly the weight was 600 to 1,000 pounds. Things roll, off course the start is slower and we need gears for hills. Pedaling an Ebike without the assist is like you gained 30 pounds.


Most quality full suspension e-mtb's are ~50 lbs, and most full suspension enduro/trail bikes are ~30 lbs, so it's actually closer to a 20 lb difference. Not that big of a deal if you are a healthy and fit rider. However, if you are riding an e-mtb because you have a physical impairment, then riding with no assist could get ugly. Still, if you budget your battery for the ride you have planned, the odds of getting stranded with no assist are very low.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

OhioPT said:


> Most quality full suspension e-mtb's are ~50 lbs, and most full suspension enduro/trail bikes are ~30 lbs, so it's actually closer to a 20 lb difference. Not that big of a deal if you are a healthy and fit rider. However, if you are riding an e-mtb because you have a physical impairment, then riding with no assist could get ugly. Still, if you budget your battery for the ride you have planned, the odds of getting stranded with no assist are very low.


I do agree with the 20 difference the extra 10 was for some drag factor. To be safe day 1 i switched to a cassette with 6 more teeth, just in case of electronic failure.


----------



## shackleton450 (Jun 7, 2016)

Like I said I have no idea...thats why I asked.I didn't know whether the whole pedaling mechanism locks or what.Thanks everybody for their input.


----------



## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

AAA has bicycle coverage in Oregon and Idaho so as far as I'm concerned if I've got cell service I'm covered......at least on my adventure bike. Or I can easily ditch the battery and lose 8lbs. and retrieve it later. Or in the city you could throw it on the bus like I did the time my chainring came loose. Backcountry you had just better be prepared but that is no different than a regular bike as long as you aren't too proud to push some hills.


----------



## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

There are literally billions of motorcycles in the world with no pedal system at all. You are better off having a motor failure on an ebike than a motorcycle or automobile now aren't you.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Cody01 said:


> There are literally billions of motorcycles in the world with no pedal system at all.


Not even close to that ^^ number of motos on the planet. Although moto manufacturers and dealers wish that were true. 

To the OP I would not take an ebike or a mountain bike anywhere I was not prepared to walk out from. Worst case you ditch the bike and just hike out. Ideally you can push the bike out...maybe coast the downhills. If it's just a dead battery you can pedal the ebike at least part of the time even if you have to walk/push up steeper hills. :eekster:


----------



## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

vikb said:


> Not even close to that ^^ number of motos on the planet. Although moto manufacturers and dealers wish that were true.


In many parts of the world motorcycle/scooter ownership fat outways automobiles.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Cody01 said:


> In many parts of the world motorcycle/scooter ownership fat outways automobiles.


No argument about that ^^^. Wikipedia pegs all motos [including mopeds which would fail your definition due to the pedals] at 200 million. So your estimate is off by at least 1.8 billion assuming "billions" means at least 2,000 million at 2 billion or more.



> About 200 million motorcycles, including mopeds, motor scooters, motorised bicycles, and other powered two and three-wheelers, are in use worldwide,[26] or about 33 motorcycles per 1000 people. By comparison, there are about 1 billion cars in the world, or about 141 per 1000 people, with about one third in service in Japan and the United States.[27]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycling


----------



## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Fair enough. I didnt do my research before that but my original point still holds.


----------



## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

I ride a Bosch CX and it is miserable to pedal on any hint of uphill when the battery dies.
It pedals way harder than an extra 20 pounds because the motor design does not use a free wheel to disengage the motor internals as Hikerdave said about his Yamaha.
I am shopping for my next e-mtb and the features of the motor will determine which bike I will get.
If I understand correctly, the new Bosch and Brose motors have addressed the internal resistance issue.
I am interested in the Wire Peak which is assisted by the Shimano 8000. The internet says the cons of the Shimano is noise and internal resistance.

Has anyone ridden the new Bosch or Brose and any opinions on the Shimano 8000 as far as internal resistance when the battery dies?


----------



## Ridnw/bear (Jul 11, 2005)

I dont find that there is much resistance with the Shimano E8000 system when turned off.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Resistance is many things.
A- the person may make a pretend review to promote
--- Now that it is out of the way, in many occasions we can feel a resistance.
- When the battery is dead
- When the system is turned off
- When we reach the legal limit/programmed max assist
- Just before we reach that max

My 2017 Yamaha with a max of 32kmh diminishes the assist progressively so there is no black-white contrast so the first i can feel is simply a lesser level of assist.
Someone described a similar experience, i just do not remember what brand/model/year. I am not even sure wich model i am riding, i bought it unsold, off season but who cares it runs wells. The specs sheet i found says 
Yamaha PW-System, 250W, 25km/h but they had 2 versions. And the 25 kmh is when sold in other areas here it is 32.


----------



## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

I’ve ridden some Bosch powered bikes (rental and demos)a bit and found the drag or resistance when not assisted to be terrible. 

I have a Shimano 8000 powered bike (my wife’s) and I feel that there is no drag when riding with the system off. It’s just heavier. 

The Shimano makes some noise, but not much.


----------

