# Titanium Spring free length question



## MqtRider (Mar 22, 2004)

I picked up a Progressive Titanium rear spring for a DHX 5.0 for the ladies bike. The original fox spring was a 300 x 2.5. She needs a 250 x 2.5 which is what I bought. But the free length is substantially longer by an 1.5". I can't get the C-clip on the end that holds the spring on the end with the rebound adjustment. Does the free length difference matter? Any advice would be helpful.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm curious about your shock size. It looks more like a 2.25 stroke than 2.5... If not, my bad, but Fox springs aren't labeled exact to the stroke. For example, a 2.25 spring gets labeled 2.35, a 3 inch gets 3.25 ect. What is your steel spring from?

Also, I've had ti springs on a couple DHX's and I always have to wedge the spring retainer back on because the springs tend to use all that length. I don't think you'll damage anything if you give the spring cup a little "finesse"


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## MqtRider (Mar 22, 2004)

*According to Santa Cruz*

2006 Heckler

What size shock does the Heckler use?
8.5" x 2.5" (216x 63mm)
The mounting hardware is 22mm wide with an 8mm through hole.


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

2006 Heckler's use a 2,25...


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## ban (Jul 24, 2004)

What size shock does the Heckler use?
We use two different size shocks on the Heckler - 2” stroke and 2.25” stroke. All 03-04 Hecklers used the 2” shock, giving the frame 5” of travel. As of October 2004, 5th Element coil, Fox DHX, Fox Float and Manitou Swinger air and coil shocks are the 2.25” stroke, giving the Heckler 5.6” of travel. 5th Air shocks remain 2” stroke. The eye-eye length on all is 7.875” with 22mm wide mounting hardware. The bolt hole in the shock is 8mm front and rear.
The newest model (not 2006 but 2007-08) do uses a 8.5” x 2.5


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## MqtRider (Mar 22, 2004)

*It is for sure a 2006*

So that means a 2.25 stroke. So know I'm confused, the stock Fox spring that came OEM on the frame is a 300 x 2.5". So to size down with a Titanium spring, I need a 250 x 2.25 stroke spring? Why would the stock spring be a 2.5?


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

MqtRider said:


> So that means a 2.25 stroke. So know I'm confused, the stock Fox spring that came OEM on the frame is a 300 x 2.5". So to size down with a Titanium spring, I need a 250 x 2.25 stroke spring? Why would the stock spring be a 2.5?


Yeah, that's what I meant about Fox's retarded spring rating system.  That spring is probably for the 2.25, but all the other springs I've seen for your stroke said 2.35. Maybe since it's a really low rate, it probably has 2.5 inches of movement... Always best to measure the shock to be sure. If you can get the ti spring you have on there, it should be fine. I had a 650 X 2.25 RCS ti spring that was really long (to the limit of the adjuster) I got to go on the shock, barely...


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

yessir. you bought the wrong stroke spring.. you need a 250 x 2.25 or 250x2.3 spring. 

That being said, progressive springs have always ran a bit long in free length anywhoo.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Heckler uses 2.25 as said above. 

fox uses the next size up at times because in steel they are much shorter can you can bump up to the next length, and it enables you to avoid coil bind i think.

meanwhile you did get the 250 part right. just not the stroke....

what you have will not work. even if you could compress and fit it, you would end up running a bunch of preload and sag would be way off. 

stick it back on ebay and try again.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Quick question, I just ordered a Marzocchi Roco Worlcup with 2.5 inch stroke and a 2.5 inch 300 lbs Fox spring.... will it fit properly?


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

I dont mean to be rude, but doing some research might help in the future. The 'fox spring length' issue is addressed here on mtbr about once a week. I know I have answered this at least 2 or three times myself in the last few months.

Short story is that fox labels their springs differently than EVERYONE else. Because you went by the eronious labeling on the spring, rather than the actual shock stroke, you endecd up with the wrong spring.

That being said, if you can get the spring perch on without _too_ much trouble (and too much preload) it will still work...hard to tell in your pic how 'too long' it actually is.

Tacuba, did you order a fox brand spring???? iI so you are in for a bad surprise! Fox springs are 1.38 inch inside diameter. Your marx shock uses a 1.43 inch ID spring. Your fox spring will rub and possibly bind on your marz shock body.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

I am not sure about your sprinng situation. To me, the spring should be what the printing says, but it seems that there is history about Fox spring length. 

You situation reminds me of one that confused the hell out of me. I have a Revox and had some spring rubbing issues with the Ti spring. I spoke to Manitou,(which, were fricken amazing!!) the rep took care of me and sent me a new steel spring for free. I asked for the exact spring rate as the Ti spring (400 X 2.75). When it came I was completely confused. The steel spring was way longer than the Ti spring, (see pictures). I could not get the steel spring on the shock, it was too long to slide the collar on. I tried and tried, and ended up calling Manitou back. We spoke, and they came to the conclusion that the spring will fit, but it will be a pain to get on. I had to get help to compress the spring enough to slide the collar on. We had to compress the spring a good 1/2 inch. 

Since I got it on, everything has worked flawlessly. There is no more spring rubbing, and the shock actually feels better.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

sodak06 said:


> I am not sure about your sprinng situation. To me, the spring should be what the printing says, but it seems that there is history about Fox spring length.
> 
> You situation reminds me of one that confused the hell out of me. I have a Revox and had some spring rubbing issues with the Ti spring. I spoke to Manitou,(which, were fricken amazing!!) the rep took care of me and sent me a new steel spring for free. I asked for the exact spring rate as the Ti spring (400 X 2.75). When it came I was completely confused. The steel spring was way longer than the Ti spring, (see pictures). I could not get the steel spring on the shock, it was too long to slide the collar on. I tried and tried, and ended up calling Manitou back. We spoke, and they came to the conclusion that the spring will fit, but it will be a pain to get on. I had to get help to compress the spring enough to slide the collar on. We had to compress the spring a good 1/2 inch.
> 
> Since I got it on, everything has worked flawlessly. There is no more spring rubbing, and the shock actually feels better.


Wouldn't the 1/2" compression of the spring equate to a damn good amount of preload?


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Many people said it would be better to run Fox spring as it is lighter than a Zoke spring, and my bike store said they were compatible and that I shouldn't get any problems.


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## GnaR9 (Jul 7, 2007)

tacubaya said:


> Many people said it would be better to run Fox spring as it is lighter than a Zoke spring, and my bike store said they were compatible and that I shouldn't get any problems.


It'll be fine. Both Marz and Fox use a 1.43 ID spring. I dunno what davep was talking about...
EDIT, he may be right about Fox using a smaller ID spring on the DHX, but it won't matter.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Deleted


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks for your response GnaR9, I belive you've had a Roco and a DHX, so I think you are a more reliable source.

I am deciding if I should go for the Ti spring as it is quite a deal


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## GnaR9 (Jul 7, 2007)

tacubaya said:


> Thanks for your response GnaR9, I belive you've had a Roco and a DHX, so I think you are a more reliable source.
> 
> I am deciding if I should go for the Ti spring as it is quite a deal


It should work. There's a picture of a Progressive Ti on a DHX in another thread right now actually. And I'd take that link down, even I'm tempted to buy that spring and flip it! That's a steal if the bidding stays low.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

You mean a Progressive Ti on a Roco...

Thanks, I'll take the link down.


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

MZ springs have a 1.40" inner diameter

FOX springs have a 1.38" inner diameter

It may work with some lengths, may rub/may not.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

1/2 inch of preload will kill your shock. 

look at your spring rate, even with a low rate (say 300) you still have 150 lbs of preload! dude, your going to shred your internals.

fox tends to run longer springs when they can, yep. again, less chance of coil bind imho. 

you can run any size spring if it fits, minimum length would be your own stoke measurement. if you can go biger, way to go, it's not like the rate changes with size; a 250lbs/in spring is a 250lbs/in spring no matter what stroke you give it. longer = less chance of coil bind with preload.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

GnaR9 said:


> It should work. There's a picture of a Progressive Ti on a DHX in another thread right now actually. And I'd take that link down, even I'm tempted to buy that spring and flip it! That's a steal if the bidding stays low.


I ran a progressive Ti spring on my DHX all last season with no issues. Got a stellar deal on it, way cheaper then RCS or other Ti springs out there.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Ugh, I guess I will have to wait for my shock and spring to arrive and see if the springs rubs or something...


mmmhhh


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Hey, and if the spring rubs a little, couldn't I just sand lightly the inside by 0.5mm to get the ID to 1.4 inch?


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

GnaR9 said:


> It should work. There's a picture of a Progressive Ti on a DHX in another thread right now actually. And I'd take that link down, even I'm tempted to buy that spring and flip it! That's a steal if the bidding stays low.


Right, and the progressive is a 1.43 as well.

For future reference;
Fox = 1.37 ID
progressive, manitou, marz = 1.43 ID
romic, vivid, avalanche = 1.5 ID

Think of it this way, you can put on too big of pants on a small person....but too small pants will not fit on a fat guy..... no way no how.

A Fox dhx spring will rub the marz shock body...it is too small!

not sure where I came up with that either...but at least I know what I am talking about.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

dowst said:


> Wouldn't the 1/2" compression of the spring equate to a damn good amount of preload?


We just had to compress the spring about 1/2" to get the preload collar to slip under the rebound assembly. Once the spring was compressed and slipped under, the spring loosened up and fit. I only get about two - three turns until the spring is set right.

I am not sure what the big hype is with the Ti spring. I suppose if you are a racer and concerned with weight it is what you need. I like the feel of the steel more so than the Ti too.

So,.... I got a 400 X 2.75 Manitou Ti spring that is collecting dust.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

mjw said:


> meanwhile you did get the 250 part right. just not the stroke....
> 
> what you have will not work. even if you could compress and fit it, you would end up running a bunch of preload and sag would be way off.


Actually he could've bought a 250 X 200000 and it would work if he could get it on with one turn of preload. The spring rate is how many PSI (pounds per square inch) it takes to compress the spring one inch. The spring he got should work if he can nudge it on.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

why not. 

my progressive coils and ccdbs are super snug. it really makes no difference, i am sure you will fit it fairly easily.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Hey, BTI webpage and Marzocchi specs mention their spring is 1.40 ID (not 1.43 ID), and I found a Progressive Titanium 1.40 ID spring, it will work with my Roco Worldcup righttt?


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Or a steel Manitou 2.5x325lbs coil for a 2.5x8.5 Roco?


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## davep (Mar 11, 2005)

nvm


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Heh


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## zx6roxy (Nov 20, 2007)

How much spring weight reduction going to Ti?

The spring on my DHX is ~370g....(500 x 2.35)


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