# Bear Pepper Spray



## MarkHL (Oct 12, 2004)

After six years of riding 200+ times a year including riding by myself at night, I bought my first can of bear pepper-spray today. We have mostly black bears in Washington, but there have been two bear attacks locally in 2007. Both attacks were probably due to the actions of the persons involved and may have been avoidable. Both attacks occurred at places I ride. A few weeks ago, I stopped on a ridge and I thought I could hear a bear(s) moving in the brush below me, I picked up stick and beat it on the side of a tree; now scanning the forest about 200 feet in front of me in a clearing I could see a bear on all fours staring in my direction. It was a beautiful animal; all black except for a brown snoot, I remember its coat had a brilliant sheen. I started to leave; but then reached for my camera, but by time I looked back to where the bear was; it was gone. I immediately left the area though I didn't really feel threatened, but it did give me a pretty good adrenalin rush. My fear... is surprising one in the underbrush, or coming upon one with cubs. I do my best to announce myself when I'm in heavier vegetation normally calling out "coming down" or "coming up" but after years of barely giving thought to the subject, I find myself now riding some areas of the woods in fear (e.g., clear cuts, heavy vegetation, seldom used trails). It doesn't help the local news is stating people have reported 27 bearing sighting in the past several weeks and having hikers bring up the subject during conversations on the trail.

I also suspect the chance of getting in an automobile accident on the way to the trail head is a much greater danger than bears in the forest and has always been my justification for not being concerned.... But lately, I've been getting bear-paranoid, for lack of a better term. 

Any thoughts on the subject


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## Navin (Sep 11, 2007)

#1 its called bearanoia 

#2 Black bears are pussies, unless you being really aggressive toward its cubs or unless its rabid it will not want anything to do with you. They like berries not humans. Dont be scared.

Id be more worried of mountain lions, FWIW


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## cdeftekar (Apr 23, 2009)




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## tommyeflight89 (May 24, 2009)

I was just going to post that! 
Nice


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## Jim Beam (Dec 22, 2003)

*Yup*



MarkHL said:


> Any thoughts on the subject


I carry pepper spray, not so much for bears but rather for people, dogs, Texans, skidders, ATV riders, etc., but same idea. Just get a clip or carrier so you can have it on your hydration pack strap for easy access. It's not going to do you much good if you can get to it immediately.


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

In my experience with angry animals. If you can convince them that you want to rip them to shreds more than they want to rip you to shreds, they often back off. 

I once had a pack of near wild dogs give chase on me. I turned around with no weapon and proceeded to run at them and fvck them up as much as I could. The look in their eyes was priceless, pure WTF. Took off running the other way. I was set to kill them, and they sensed it. 

Don't know how well it works on bears though.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Bear spray ONLY works if it's easy to access and you know how to use it. Buy two cans...one for protection and the other for practice. You'll still get mauled by the bear if you spray YOURSELF in the face with the pepper spray.

Also, black bears will run away more often than not, but spooking one around a corner up close, or when it's grazing its favorite berry patch will send it into defensive mode. On rare occasions, a big male will try to eat a person, too. Most problems surround a bear wanting your food, though. Clif bars, PBJ's, bananas, if it's in your pack, the bear knows it.

Bear bells are considered "dinner bells" by many experienced hikers, because habituated bears have learned that a bear bell means there's food. Bears are NOT dumb.


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## mtbbill (Dec 31, 2003)

I wonder if bears like pepper spray on thier humans like I like Tabasico on my eggs?


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

mtbbill said:


> I wonder if bears like pepper spray on thier humans like I like Tabasico on my eggs?


Actually yes they do.

I was doing research on bear spray and found that in a lot of cases, bears are attracted to the smell and will try anything they can to eat it or sniff it. They can smell it from far away too.

That is why they advise not testing it in an area where you plan on camping. Some people had the wise idea of spraying their stuff as a deterrent, but acted as taco spice.

It only works when it is burning their eyeballs.

My Dad was attacked by a black bear with a large tumor. That thing was set to kill, no matter what. Luckily he had a gun and some military training to steady his shot. Many guys have been found dead with a completely emptied high powered gun next to them. Panicked and didn't land the shots in the right spots. You can only take down a charging bear in the face and chest.

When fishing in Alaska. My 12 gauge is packed with 1 bird shot (to face), 3 buck shot (more to face), and 2 slugs (to chest). My theory is to disable their sense of direction first, and then take them down with slugs for the final kill.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

Navin said:


> #2 Black bears are pussies, unless you being really aggressive toward its cubs or unless its rabid it will not want anything to do with you. They like berries not humans. Dont be scared.
> 
> Id be more worried of mountain lions, FWIW


Agreed.

However, if you _really must_ carry something, I'd suggest a bike air horn


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## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

Navin said:


> #1 its called bearanoia
> 
> #2 Black bears are pussies, unless you being really aggressive toward its cubs or unless its rabid it will not want anything to do with you. They like berries not humans. Dont be scared.
> 
> Id be more worried of mountain lions, FWIW


+1
They love jelly doughnuts and bacon grease too. 
But who doesn't?


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## Skinner29er (Apr 12, 2009)

I ride a FS specialized, it squeeks alot. Bears hate that and run.....

Seriously, if you ride quiet chances of surprising them increase. Make some noise and you will warn them and they will take off.....Havingha dog with you may help as well, as long as they are voice comand trained...dont want to get them killed. I used to ride the sierras and only came upon a bear once. My dog barked and growled and he too off. they are hunted by dogs up there during the season. Chased up the trees and shot.....not very sporting really.


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

I carry one of these. S&W 500 Magnum.








The snub fits in my camelbak.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

*S&w*



hanjin said:


> I carry one of these. S&W 500 Magnum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not to be a smartass, I think more people should pack, but how quick is your draw from your camelbak?
Joe


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## dwfoster63 (Apr 14, 2009)

hanjin said:


> I carry one of these. S&W 500 Magnum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 JEEEEZZZ......Where do you carry THAT thing at...on a trailer?


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## verve825 (Mar 16, 2005)

hanjin said:


> I carry one of these. S&W 500 Magnum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So let me be clear on this: you hoist a surrogate metallic penis into your Camelback, where it'll take you 30-60 seconds to retrieve in the exceedingly unlikely event of a bear attack. Precisely what good does this do you, other than allowing you to post shiny pictures on this forum?

Regards,

jb


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Would that spray stuff be good with chicken wings?


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## kafromet (Sep 7, 2008)

YoPawn said:


> When fishing in Alaska. My 12 gauge is packed with 1 bird shot (to face), 3 buck shot (more to face), and 2 slugs (to chest). My theory is to disable their sense of direction first, and then take them down with slugs for the final kill.


That's the kind of theory that gets people dead. Your odds of having multiple shots against a bear are poor. If your one shot isn't capable of stopping the threat (stop=dead) then your plan is horribly flawed.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

Yea I wouldn't be to worried about blackbears, there kind of like dogs they may be a little curious but really have no interest in you. One precaution I would take is strapping some bells to yourself so that the bears can here you coming. You only really have to worry about them if you give them a good startle.


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## ZeroNine3 (May 18, 2009)

A little off-topic, but still on the topic of bears. Search wikipedia for, "Sankebetsu brown bear incident" and "Hugh Glass"... some interesting reading.


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## The Red (Mar 15, 2009)

I wonder if eating bear sausage and taking a dump next to your camp can ward off a bear.. like it does to small animals when the feces is from a predator.. even if the currant-thieving bunnies here in NY have never seen an african lion.. they still run


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

verve825 said:


> So let me be clear on this: you hoist a surrogate metallic penis into your Camelback, where it'll take you 30-60 seconds to retrieve in the exceedingly unlikely event of a bear attack. Precisely what good does this do you, other than allowing you to post shiny pictures on this forum?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> jb


I think you got it! 
See in Texas with a CHL you can carry a surrogate metallic penis most any place. I always used to think it was very unlikely I would be car jacked, but guess what? So I'd rather be prepared, and the snub nose only take about 10 sec. from the webbing on my camelbak. And what it does is give me a warm fuzzy feeling, when I ride and also seems to really bother people like you so mission accomplished.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

I have thought about getting a CCW for when I ride alone. Not to protect me from bears, but from humans. 

The only thing is I can't figure out where to put it so that I can access it quick enough. 

hanjin- BTW... 10 seconds? You think it will take a bear longer than 10 seconds to be all over you? Good luck. 

And to the guy with the 4 shells of useless rounds in the shotgun... better to practice your aim and keep it full of slugs. Not being critical, just an FYI

Only reason to use the 2 shells of turkey shot followed by three slugs is when i am Turkey hunting. empty the 2 turkey shells and use slugs on bear/hog, etc...


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

pointerDixie214 said:


> I have thought about getting a CCW for when I ride alone. Not to protect me from bears, but from humans.
> 
> The only thing is I can't figure out where to put it so that I can access it quick enough.
> 
> ...


It really all depends. I'd rather be prepared. I ride with a Glock 27, cause a guy was killed last year for his mountain bike at a local park. Besides, I don't think I'll run into many bear in Houston Texas.


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

kafromet said:


> That's the kind of theory that gets people dead. Your odds of having multiple shots against a bear are poor. If your one shot isn't capable of stopping the threat (stop=dead) then your plan is horribly flawed.


Fishing in brown bear territory is what gets people dead.  I don't do that any longer though.

I took advice from some Alaskan locals about the rounds, so who knows what really works. They said the chance of getting a slug through a bear's chest while charging is less likely to take it down initially than rounds to the face. I don;t think there is any chance of saving yourself if a Brown bear attacked from a short distance though, they would shred you to bits before their heart even stopped from a bullet. Never really expected to ever have to use it though. I'm a good shot, but not too much into killing cute animals.


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## ratty2k (Oct 29, 2007)

Reading this makes me glad I ride in the UK! Our laws are much different so dont see this as a put down... I dont have to worry about people with guns on the trail- either good guys or bad. As most folks dont have guns. And the biggest animal is usually a cow of some description.


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## santacruzchick (Jun 27, 2007)

For the OP:
Read the statistics. Black bears are, in fact, more dangerous than grizzly bears despite popular lore. It's not something to be paranoid about and bear attacks are pretty rare, but if there has recently been a significant uptick in your area in bear/people interactions I would pay attention. It generally means the bears are altering their habits in response to some environmental pressure, usually a shortage of food. It is my understanding (based on conversations with a bear expert for the National Park Service) that while grizzly bears are most likely to attack in self defense after they are surprised and scared, black bears are more likely to attack humans after stalking them as they would any other prey. The reason is because the 'fight' response to a perceived threat is not quite as developed in black bears as it is in grizzly bears who evolved on the open tundra (with nowhere to run and hide from threats), and because geographical and population factors make many more black bears much more habituated and knowledgeable about the general soft, slow, defenseless, and often food packing characteristics of humans.
Also, here's something to think about: Have you ever tried to target practice with a pistol? It's pretty damned hard to hit anything at 20 yards under the best of conditions unless you get regular practice. Now imagine the shaky hands, blurred around the edges vision, rapid breathing, and pounding heart, that you get when an extreme dose of adrenaline and fear hits your system. If you feel you need a weapon and you can't carry a shot gun, a couple cans of bear spray are going to be far more effective than a pistol. And, unless it's one whale of a pistol, a less than perfect shot might just piss it off. Just remember bear spray cannisters unload their entire contents the first time you pull the trigger, so no second shots. I'm not against the use of firearms- I used to live in a place where I carried a sawed-off shot gun to the outhouse every time I had to pee in the middle of the night because of grizzly bears- I'm just for the best tool to do the job in each circumstance.


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## kafromet (Sep 7, 2008)

A lady in the bear thread?

Well, that's just great. You hear that, Ed? Bears. Now you're putting the whole station in jeopardy.


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## PrincipalRider (Jun 24, 2005)

Jim Beam said:


> I carry pepper spray, not so much for bears but rather for people, dogs, Texans, skidders, ATV riders, etc., but same idea. Just get a clip or carrier so you can have it on your hydration pack strap for easy access. It's not going to do you much good if you can get to it immediately.


Don't forget accidentally blinding the people you ride with when they help you put on that pack, accidentally touch your pepper spray on the clip, and inadvertantly wipe their eyes.


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## mtbike52 (Feb 11, 2008)

Ive seen a few bears this spring. Never felt threatened.Very seldom is there a bear atack in this area. Every couple of years someone gets jumped by a Mtn Lion. Just last year a small boy was walking ahead of his parents in the Sandias here. A Mtn Lion jumped him and drug him off the trail. The dad hit it with a rock and it let the boy go. He got quite a few stiches. If a Mtn Lion jumps you, you wont hear it comming. Spray, gun, dont matter.:eekster:


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

Shooting bears on the trail? Oh for Chrissakes. What kinda cockamanie idea is that?? We're in _their_ backyard.

The only good thing about the new law allowing concealed weapons in National Parks is that NRA member Bubba can "take out" NRA member Cletus. Good riddance! Lettum' fight over that last can of Busch! Who the **** cares, as long as they don't poach wildlife.


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## smittie61984 (Aug 26, 2004)

dirt farmer said:


> Shooting bears on the trail? Oh for Chrissakes. What kinda cockamanie idea is that?? We're in _their_ backyard.


We Top Food Chain We Make Rule.

I've never had a problem with a black bear. Infact I love scaring the hell out of my city friends when we go camping in the mountains and they see a bear. I'll take off running and screaming at the bear and then teh bear runs one way and my friends the other way. It's halarious.

Infact when we go camping our campsite is a bear heaven. We'll have honey buns, grilled fish/hot dogs/burgers/chicken and other great food items laying around (we always clean up before we leave of course). I think bears look at that and say "I'm not going there. It's a trap for sure".

As for carrying guns. I don't ride mountain bike trails much that have bears or dangerous wildlife so I don't usually carry it there. I do carry on my road bike because I'm surrounded by a bunch of wannabe ******** in $50k trucks with $10k in lifts who think they are country and only concern is UGA football and hunting. So they they give roadies hell. But not so much when I have my 44mag in a shoulder harness.

Also I was watching Animal Planet the other day and it was talking about animals that attack humans. One was about a woman who was mountain biking and got attacked by a mountain lion. Other mountain bikers heard the screams and came and kept throwing rocks at the lion (probably hit the women with them more) and it didn't even phase the lion. I'm sure if you had a mountain lion clamped on your throat that you'd be praying for some backwoods ******* hick to come strolling up with his evil gun and to put a bullet into that lion's head.

I never understood why people are so terrified of guns and feel that if guns disappeared all violence would stop and we'd all sit together and sing kumbaya.

Pepper spray is best used for taking yourself out.


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

So, you're in the sunburned nape (fancy term for "*******") idealogue of: "We camp in your yard, you bother us in the least...we shoot you"? Yes or No?

Please justify your existence.


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

dirt farmer said:


> So, you're in the sunburned nape (fancy term for "*******") idealogue of: "We camp in your yard, you bother us in the least...we shoot you"? Yes or No?
> 
> Please justify your existence.


So your in the meat is murder, stop climate change, and drive a Pruis(fancy name for "hippie") idealouge of: "We camp in your yard, we run into each other so by all means do what come natural and maul us but we won't fight back" ? Yes or No? That'll get you killed and who'll fight to close more national parks to mountain bikes then if not you?


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## smittie61984 (Aug 26, 2004)

dirt farmer said:


> So, you're in the sunburned nape (fancy term for "*******") idealogue of: "We camp in your yard, you bother us in the least...we shoot you"? Yes or No?
> 
> Please justify your existence.


I hate this "We're in their yard or territory or whatever". We're an animal too and for the people who embrace Darwinism or survival of the fittest I can't understand why you feel humans should be put down so much because we simply are more adaptive creatures.

Where do you live? My guess is in a house or some sort of shelter that was woods or nothing before you arrived in it. Why did you take over their backyard? Your home probably destroyed a lot of woodland creature's homes and may have even killed some in the process.

Sorry but we evolved much better than other animals so as far as I'm concerned they are our inferiors. And if I'm being attacked by a bear, mountain lion, unpotty trained gerbal, or even a human then my life or another human's life is going to have precedence over that animal's life.

I preserve wildlife when I can and love animals much much much better than I like humans (I don't even hunt or fish). But I would have no problem shooting a bear that is attacking me while mountain biking.

Oh yeah. I am technically a "*******" since I work outdoors and not in some cubicle jungle to head to the real jungle on the weekends and pretend to be an outdoorsman because I own the North Face and a $4000 bicycle.


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## jgsatl (Sep 16, 2006)

ratty2k said:


> Reading this makes me glad I ride in the UK! Our laws are much different so dont see this as a put down... I dont have to worry about people with guns on the trail- either good guys or bad. As most folks dont have guns. And the biggest animal is usually a cow of some description.


but....what about scottish soccer hooligans??


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

smittie61984 said:


> Sorry but we evolved much better than other animals so as far as I'm concerned they are our inferiors. And if I'm being attacked by a bear, mountain lion, unpotty trained gerbal, or even a human then my life or another human's life is going to have precedence over that animal's life.


So we've evolved, yet we've only had guns for 900 of those 40,000 years (unless you're from Kansas. You're not from Kansas, are you?)

If you really have to shoot a bear because it looks threatening, well, then, I'm sorry... but you're just not trying hard enough.

You've evolved, right? Use your "God given" intellect to outwit that 'umble creeture.


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## ZeroNine3 (May 18, 2009)

I like guns. +1 for guns.


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## kirkusarilious (Sep 13, 2008)

We watched an "In the know" Deputy sheriff unload a can of bear spray on this fellow. He'd been raiding coolers all day. (this was the little one.)

It's almost funny having a conversation around a campfire, and all you hear in the camp next to you is the squeeky hinges on an igloo cooler. The bear was moving up the hill with a block of cheese about 2 seconds later.

It didn't go well for the deputy, or anyone else in a 100 foot radius. They were downwind of the spray and it was like a re-enactment of the drunk scene in Team America. Everyone was puking!


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## Marcus75 (Jul 29, 2003)

*I can't shoot an bear?*

...Now stupid aggressive people I probably can!



hanjin said:


> I carry one of these. S&W 500 Magnum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Marcus75 (Jul 29, 2003)

*No worries here!*



ratty2k said:


> Reading this makes me glad I ride in the UK! Our laws are much different so dont see this as a put down... I dont have to worry about people with guns on the trail- either good guys or bad. As most folks dont have guns. And the biggest animal is usually a cow of some description.


I don't know ANYONE who carries guns when riding. Of Course I'm from California. Maybe in the rural places like Texas?


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## rabidchicken (Apr 16, 2009)

ZeroNine3 said:


> I like guns. +1 for guns.




On the bike I carry this (either in my pocket or in the camelbak):









Off the bike I carry this:









I carry a pocket pistol everywhere I am legally allowed to. I don't carry to protect against wildlife since the animals in SW Florida tend to leave you alone.

S&W makes a bear survival kit which includes a .460 snub nose. I shot it when the S&W rep was visiting the range. If the ammo wasn't so damn expensive, I would have one.


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## mtbike52 (Feb 11, 2008)

kirkusarilious said:


> We watched an "In the know" Deputy sheriff unload a can of bear spray on this fellow. He'd been raiding coolers all day. (this was the little one.)
> 
> It's almost funny having a conversation around a campfire, and all you hear in the camp next to you is the squeeky hinges on an igloo cooler. The bear was moving up the hill with a block of cheese about 2 seconds later.
> 
> It didn't go well for the deputy, or anyone else in a 100 foot radius. They were downwind of the spray and it was like a re-enactment of the drunk scene in Team America. Everyone was puking!


Now thats funny. To bad you didnt get that on vid. I bet the campers puking didnt think it was funny.


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

cdeftekar said:


>


HAHHAHAHAHHA !! Loved the last sentence!!! NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Guns just piss off Grizzlies.
Period. 
Even .50 caliber, etc.
There is a video somewhere of a Sheriff shooting a Grizzly 13 times before it was incapacitated...as in, not even dead yet. 
But you guys from Texas crack me up.

A momma Griz and two cubs were just spotted on a trail 1/2 mile from my house. 
Bear spray, for sure...


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## split.therapy (Apr 27, 2008)

rideit said:


> Guns just piss off Grizzlies.
> Period.
> 
> A momma Griz and two cubs were just spotted on a trail 1/2 mile from my house.
> Bear spray, for sure...


*+1*
Nobody is fast enough and accurate enough to draw on and kill a charging Grizz! :nono:

What trail is that?


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Mike harris/powerline area. 
PM me, dood!


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## ShadowsCast (Mar 23, 2008)

Yeah guns are worthless against grizzlies. Completely. These guys should have just handed their guns over to the grizzly. Better yet, they should have found some way to "outwit" the bear before it got to them...

1:45 - 




Cliff notes: bear charges some guys in a boat, one guy shoots at bear, bear turns around and heads the other way.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen the statistics, and lived in Alaska. Pepper spray is as or more effective against bears than guns (in Alaska), probably because the fudge factor is a lot higher. Despite that, to say guns are worthless against bears is pretty foolish. For every instance of a bear getting shot at and then eating a person there's an instance of a bear getting shot at and not eating a person.

Another example of a good time to have a gun:






I suppose I'll note that in neither video was a bear actually shot...


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Ummm....dumbfVck. that there weren't no grizzly. That there were a golden brown bear. 
We hear iz talkin men talk, not cartoon tawk. 

Take heed!

(seriously, Grizz behaviour is so, so far beyond firepower, just pack the spray. The gunz just piss em off. When will people 'get it'?' )


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Another thread dragged down by retarded pics of guns.


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## split.therapy (Apr 27, 2008)

ShadowsCast said:


> Don't get me wrong, I've seen the statistics, and lived in Alaska. Pepper spray is as or more effective against bears than guns (in Alaska), probably because the fudge factor is a lot higher. Despite that, to say guns are worthless against bears is pretty foolish. For every instance of a bear getting shot at and then eating a person there's an instance of a bear getting shot at and not eating a person.


http://fwp.mt.gov/news/article_7183.aspx


> *What position do bear biologists take in this debate? I can't speak for others, but after studying more than 600 Alaska bear attacks, I've learned:*
> 
> ** In 72 incidents of people using bear spray to defend themselves against aggressive bears in Alaska, 98% were uninjured, and those that were suffered only minor injuries.
> * In 300 incidents where people carried and used firearms for protection against aggressive bears in Alaska, 40% were injured or killed, including 23 fatalities and 16 severely injured persons. Another 48 people suffered lesser injuries.*


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Few season back I rode up to the trailhead starting the ride where a family was getting ready for their hike. Mom, dad, and kids who I estimated to be around 5 and 8. Dad is giving some speech about the trail. Next thing I know the family is attempting to apply the bear spray as if were bug spray. Needless to say the family's hiking plan suddenly changed. Poor kids...


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

There are 2 reasons why I love riding around Boston, MA

1. There are no grizzlies, no mountain lions, no bears. I feel completely safe where ever I ride.

2. There are no idiots who carry guns, thinking they'll need to use them while they're mountain biking.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

VTSession said:


> There are 2 reasons why I love riding around Boston, MA
> 
> 1. There are no grizzlies, no mountain lions, no bears. I feel completely safe where ever I ride.
> 
> 2. There are no idiots who carry guns, thinking they'll need to use them while they're mountain biking.


Well if you only ride around Boston, you are missing out on some great riding. I will take the Rocky Mountains or southwest deserts over Boston any day, but to each their own. Bear attacks on bikers are very rare as are people on mountain bikes being shot. The odds of being accosted by someone with a gun are probably higher in Boston I would think. 

As far as spray vs guns, I guess whatever makes you feel safer. I ride in lion habitat frequently and black bear turf occasionally and pack neither. But if I rode a lot where bears are common I would probably rig up a harness for spray.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

crux said:


> Few season back I rode up to the trailhead starting the ride where a family was getting ready for their hike. Mom, dad, and kids who I estimated to be around 5 and 8. Dad is giving some speech about the trail. Next thing I know the family is attempting to apply the bear spray as if were bug spray. Needless to say the family's hiking plan suddenly changed. Poor kids...


Man, that is too funny and too sad all at the same time. Comical story though. Hopefully it didn't turn the kids off to hiking.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

smittie61984 said:


> Also I was watching Animal Planet the other day and it was talking about animals that attack humans. One was about a woman who was mountain biking and got attacked by a mountain lion. Other mountain bikers heard the screams and came and kept throwing rocks at the lion (probably hit the women with them more) and it didn't even phase the lion. I'm sure if you had a mountain lion clamped on your throat that you'd be praying for some backwoods ******* hick to come strolling up with his evil gun and to put a bullet into that lion's head.
> 
> I never understood why people are so terrified of guns and feel that if guns disappeared all violence would stop and we'd all sit together and sing kumbaya.
> 
> Pepper spray is best used for taking yourself out.


Yeah well all this talk of pepper spray and guns must be for wimps

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=2743820


> Although the Hamms are experienced hikers, neither had seen a mountain lion before Jim Hamm was mauled, his wife said. Nell Hamm said she grabbed a four-inch-wide log and beat the animal with it, but it would not release its hold on her husband's head.
> 
> ``Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket and get the pen and jab him in the eye,''' she said. ``So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would.''
> 
> ...


And that was around their 50th anniversary.

edit:
And that is why we should do better we can work together. The lion was having to much trouble with the crazy lady beating it with a log to properly kill the guy.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

Hanjin,

How quick will you go deaf if you pull the trigger on that snub with a muzzle brake without ear plugs?

I'm a gun enthusiast and a hunter with numerous rifles and guns. I have never considered carrying while riding. I don't live where there are Griz though.

Moose kill more people than bears every year in North America. Maybe we should start a carry for moose thread?


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## JMUSuperman (Jun 14, 2008)

Mark,

I think that bear is trying to send you a message. He's saying the HC Bridge is open again, come ride the big boy trails.

Love,
Some of the kids in the QTA


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## Judd97 (Jun 6, 2005)

Navin said:


> #1 its called bearanoia
> 
> #2 Black bears are pussies, unless you being really aggressive toward its cubs or unless its rabid it will not want anything to do with you. They like berries not humans. Dont be scared.
> 
> Id be more worried of mountain lions, FWIW


I don't mean to increase the OP's "bearanoia", but black bears are fiercely territorial, and are more apt to attack due to this or due to predation than due to defense, such as a grizzly bear. In my time working as a wildlife biologist in Jackson, WY, I've come between a mother black bear and her cubs; the cubs went up a tree and the mother was clearly nervous, but reluctant to charge or be seen. Not saying that that is a good place to be, just reporting personal experience.

I wouldn't quite say they are pussies, though. Every black bear I've come across has paid me no mind, but not all of them have run.


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## Judd97 (Jun 6, 2005)

santacruzchick said:


> Just remember bear spray cannisters unload their entire contents the first time you pull the trigger, so no second shots. I'm not against the use of firearms- I used to live in a place where I carried a sawed-off shot gun to the outhouse every time I had to pee in the middle of the night because of grizzly bears- I'm just for the best tool to do the job in each circumstance.


Great post, but the part about bear spray emptying in one press of the trigger is untrue, at least for the canisters we were issued with the forest service in Wyoming. We were given the UDAP canisters and they worked like any aerosol; the trigger did not stay compressed/you could shoot in "bursts" etc. Not sure if they are all like this. I think the main point is, the canisters empty VERY fast if the trigger is held down completely (especially to your perception if you were being attacked) and, of course, a full canister to the face of the bear will be preferable to a few bursts.

As far as firearms, I can understand the security one would receive with a firearm stowed away, but bear spray truly is more effective; especially in the case of a pistol.


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## texacajun (Jan 20, 2004)

hanjin said:


> It really all depends. I'd rather be prepared. I ride with a Glock 27, cause a guy was killed last year for his mountain bike at a local park. Besides, I don't think I'll run into many bear in Houston Texas.


Yeah, I'd carry a gun if I were you too...but that's to turn on myself after realizing I had ended up screwing up my life so bad I found myself living in HOUSTON!


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

> Quote:
> What position do bear biologists take in this debate? I can't speak for others, but after studying more than 600 Alaska bear attacks, I've learned:
> 
> * In 72 incidents of people using bear spray to defend themselves against aggressive bears in Alaska, 98% were uninjured, and those that were suffered only minor injuries.
> * In 300 incidents where people carried and used firearms for protection against aggressive bears in Alaska, 40% were injured or killed, including 23 fatalities and 16 severely injured persons. Another 48 people suffered lesser injuries.


that actually makes sense. Hitting a brown bear in a critical location (enough to take them down instantly) is pretty much impossible when they are charging right at you and full of adrenaline. The skull will bounce bullets off, and the chest if also pretty well protected.

The most effective way is to get their softest spot, eyes and lungs. Which also corresponds to removing their sense of direction. If a bear can't see or smell you very well, your chances of getting somewhere safer have increased.

I've accidentally gotten pepper oil in my eyes before. The last thing any living creature would be thinking about is what they were chasing after, when the face is lit on pepper fire. I've had 3rd degree burns over most of my back before, even that doesn't come close to the misery of having your eyeballs full of pain.


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## raycharlesonacid (May 14, 2009)

An armed society is a polite society, lol.


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## ZeroNine3 (May 18, 2009)

I'm just gonna pick my bike up over my head and start yelling, screaming, and chasing them away...


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## Hardline (Jan 16, 2004)

I do not think that I have to worry about too many bears in Ft Worth/ Dallas area. But you would be surprised to know just how many people do have and carry with their CHL. Many people just do not advertise it. JJ


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## GoGoGordo (Jul 16, 2006)

texacajun said:


> Yeah, I'd carry a gun if I were you too...but that's to turn on myself after realizing I had ended up screwing up my life so bad I found myself living in HOUSTON!


So true so true...Texass sucks.


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## hanjin (Apr 24, 2008)

GoGoGordo said:


> So true so true...Texass sucks.


Yeah San Fran. is a hella of a step from Houston. I'd jump in the bay if I had to deal with all those Fixie hipsters watching MASH, riding with no brakes and crashing into cars all the time. But hey at least you have a balanced state budget, right? Oh wait!:thumbsup:


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## texacajun (Jan 20, 2004)

GoGoGordo said:


> So true so true...Texass sucks.


Eh now...just cause Humidston sucks don't lump in the whole state. The best part of SF I found on my last trip was the self assurance that you're all still there. Which means less of you are moving here. Thank you dotcom bust. :thumbsup: That doesn't mean I'd condemn the whole state of Californication...well maybe lala land. :eekster:


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## kara12 (Aug 5, 2009)

*Can bear pepper spray be used on humans?*

Can bear pepper spray be used on humans? I was thinking of it as a home defense weapon.?
They sell pepper spray that is supposed to be used by hikers against bears. I was wondering if it could be used on humans if somebody breaks into my house. It shoots 20-30 feets which would be pretty nice..


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

MarkHL said:


> After six years of riding 200+ times a year including riding by myself at night, I bought my first can of bear pepper-spray today. We have mostly black bears in Washington, but there have been two bear attacks locally in 2007. Both attacks were probably due to the actions of the persons involved and may have been avoidable. Both attacks occurred at places I ride. A few weeks ago, I stopped on a ridge and I thought I could hear a bear(s) moving in the brush below me, I picked up stick and beat it on the side of a tree; now scanning the forest about 200 feet in front of me in a clearing I could see a bear on all fours staring in my direction. It was a beautiful animal; all black except for a brown snoot, I remember its coat had a brilliant sheen. I started to leave; but then reached for my camera, but by time I looked back to where the bear was; it was gone. I immediately left the area though I didn't really feel threatened, but it did give me a pretty good adrenalin rush. My fear... is surprising one in the underbrush, or coming upon one with cubs. I do my best to announce myself when I'm in heavier vegetation normally calling out "coming down" or "coming up" but after years of barely giving thought to the subject, I find myself now riding some areas of the woods in fear (e.g., clear cuts, heavy vegetation, seldom used trails). It doesn't help the local news is stating people have reported 27 bearing sighting in the past several weeks and having hikers bring up the subject during conversations on the trail.
> 
> I also suspect the chance of getting in an automobile accident on the way to the trail head is a much greater danger than bears in the forest and has always been my justification for not being concerned.... But lately, I've been getting bear-paranoid, for lack of a better term.
> 
> Any thoughts on the subject


You can get a nice big can of pepper spray from REI. I carried mine last week while mountain biking because we had a problem bear in camp. (Supposedly pepper spray works as well as or better than a firearm on bears.) Usually I just leave the pepper spray in the camper in case any unwanted humans come calling.

Best reason for using pepper spray over a firearm is that you'll not hurt someone accidently. Second best reason is that the pepper spray is a third the weight. If you really had to bring down a bear, you'd want a large-caliber handgun, which is usually quite heavy.

I don't know if it's real protection or not, but having the pepper spray mades me feel safer, especially when I know that there's a bear around by seeing scat or tracks.


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## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

I like firearms for their recreational purposes (and own many), but if you think you will be able to pull and accurately fire on a bear that is attacking you, you are mistaken. The best protection is to avoid those situations and when they are unavoidable I would assume spray works the best.


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## bh10 (May 30, 2009)

onlycrimson said:


> I like firearms for their recreational purposes (and own many), but if you think you will be able to pull and accurately fire on a bear that is attacking you, you are mistaken. The best protection is to avoid those situations and when they are unavoidable I would assume spray works the best.


I know a little different situtation but it seemed to work here. 





In most cases when you run into a bear you know your going to be attacked, there not to sneeky animals, unless your riding in a thick area, unlike a big Cat. With the right gun in the right hands, Id much rather take my chances with the gun than pepper spray.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

How is that the same? They have rifles not handguns, they had them ready, they saw the sow quite a ways away.

If you have a video of someone riding a bike seeing a bear charging, getting their handgun out of wherever they have it, and dropping the bear then please feel free to post it.


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## bh10 (May 30, 2009)

sxotty said:


> How is that the same? They have rifles not handguns, they had them ready, they saw the sow quite a ways away.
> 
> If you have a video of someone riding a bike seeing a bear charging, getting their handgun out of wherever they have it, and dropping the bear then please feel free to post it.


A .50 S&W, .454casull, or .460 S&W at short range will deliever just as much damage, if not more than most rifles carried through the brush, but if I was in Grizzly country Id have and stage coach 12ga with slugs in it, and a .50 S&W as back up.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

bh10 said:


> A .50 S&W, .454casull, or .460 S&W at short range will deliever just as much damage, if not more than most rifles carried through the brush, but if I was in Grizzly country Id have and stage coach 12ga with slugs in it, and a .50 S&W as back up.


Your going to carry a 12 gauge and a .50 caliber handgun while riding your bike? Well, that sounds simple enough I guess.


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## fordzilla36832 (Jul 21, 2009)

LOl i know this is a little off topic. But i carry a pizzle to ward of drug dealers.... IE the two nearest trails i have access to are in tuskegee national forest. Bartram trail and Pleasant trail. Im just kidding though. I dont ride with a loaded gun. Do u guys know how dangerous that is.. I have been around guns my whole life and I still take precaution around them. 

However, I'm not kidding about the drug dealers. Numerous people have been shot and many cars have been broken into and shot up out there. I used to ride the trails out there with friends but now nobody goes because of all that. Hell, even the university tells us not to wander out there for any reason because about 3 years ago a student got shot while doing an assignment for school. The school of agriculture and forestry used to assign seniors a project where the students would be in groups, and they got assigned a section of the forest to give like recommendations and all that stuff.(I dont know exactly what they do cuz im not one) ANYWAYS... while some of them were out there the were approached by several black people.. (not being racist) .... and once the confrontation was over the students went back to work and the black people had "left". well not quite. They went to the parking lot and waited for the students to come back to their vehicles and then they opened fire upon them. SO YEAH... im not ever gonna go back out there. So anybody that rides around Auburn or that trail system. DONT do it. Down here in Alabama we have more of a ******* hunter problem than an animal problem.


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## split.therapy (Apr 27, 2008)

bh10 said:


> In most cases when you run into a bear you know your going to be attacked, there not to sneeky animals, unless your riding in a thick area, unlike a big Cat. With the right gun in the right hands, Id much rather take my chances with the gun than pepper spray.


Maybe the grizzlies you have in Iowa are a little slower than the grizzlies we have here in the Tetons. Since I live with these animals and I'm an extremely highly trained, highly qualified marksman I'll stick to pepper spray. In fact during hunting season I carry 2 cans! BTW, just an FYI, the local experts agree that a handgun is best used to shoot yourself when attacked by a grizz to save yourself the suffering. You may hit a charging grizz but it's going to RIP YOU TO PIECES anyway! You'll get another shot off while it is RIPPING YOU TO PIECES!

For your reading pleasure :thumbsup: - 
http://fwp.mt.gov/news/article_7183.aspxFirearms, Bears, And Bear Spray

By Tom S. Smith, PhD, Bear Research Biologist, Plant and Wildlife Sciences Department, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah
Print Version Bookmark and Share
Friday, August 22, 2008
Hunting
This article was Archived on Monday, September 22, 2008

I've been studying bear-human conflict for the past 17 years, and have heard all sides of the 'firearms versus bear spray' debate among big game hunters. The issue is: If you're hunting and you encounter an aggressive bear-is it better to shoot it, or use bear spray to repel it?

Many die-hard hunters say they would never rely on bear spray to do the job of a gun. Others counter that a gun can possibly maim a bear, causing it to ferociously settle the score.

What position do bear biologists take in this debate? I can't speak for others, but after studying more than 600 Alaska bear attacks, I've learned:

* In 72 incidents of people using bear spray to defend themselves against aggressive bears in Alaska, 98% were uninjured, and those that were suffered only minor injuries.
* * In 300 incidents where people carried and used firearms for protection against aggressive bears in Alaska, 40% were injured or killed, including 23 fatalities and 16 severely injured persons. Another 48 people suffered lesser injuries.*

I frequently hear hunters say: "I'm unwilling to let a bear within the range necessary for bear spray to be used." Unfortunately, a hunter generally doesn't get that choice.

In my research, hunters were generally unable to fire a shot before the bear slammed into them. Some hunters couldn't get the safety off, others short-stroked the bolt and jammed the cartridge, yet others, out of habit, tried to 'scope' the bear, losing critical seconds while failing to zero in.

With a can of bear spray on one's hip or pack strap, it is simply a matter of pointing and shooting. In areas of poor visibility I always have a can of spray in my hand. It is easily carried over a finger and isn't as clumsy as a firearm is in the field-ready position. All that is required is pointing the nozzle in the general direction and pushing a button. Accuracy is not nearly as critical as it is with a firearm. You can't 'wound' a bear with bear spray. It also eliminates problems with sticking bolt actions, jamming shells, and hard-to-find safety mechanisms.

One thing bear spray and a rifle have in common is that success does depend on practice and learning how to use bear spray for its optimal effects, including being able to adjust for weather and wind direction.

Why not carry a can of bear spray on your hip or pack strap? Unless you are bear hunting, why take on the complications and possible legal ramifications of killing a bear out of season or without a license, especially a grizzly, if it can be convinced to go somewhere else in a non-lethal manner?

My suggestion to my fellow hunters is to pack bear spray and keep it ready for those times when you simply can't bring a gun into service: while hiking, while butchering the meat, while packing it out; times when a gun simply isn't convenient to have in one's hands. Your family will thank you!

For more on hunting safely in bear country, visit FWP's at fwp.mt.gov. Click "Be Bear Aware." Hunters can also p ick up a copy of " How to Hunt Safely in Grizzly Country" brochure at any FWP office.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

smittie61984 said:


> I'm sure if you had a mountain lion clamped on your throat that you'd be praying for some backwoods ******* hick to come strolling up with his evil gun and to put a bullet into that lion's head.


Yeah, with the mountain lions head inches from mine as we roll around on the ground, I'm hoping for someone to show up with a pistol and go for a head shot 

Seriously, I don't think a gun is a smart tool for that job.


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