# Can you really trust class 1 ebikes?



## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Apparently just like phones and other electronic devices it's possible to "unlock" the firmware on the devices that control the speed and allow users to go faster than they would normally be allowed to travel which essentially defeat the purpose of having them classified. I'm not going to link the source (just google "unlock ebike"), but let's just say it's as easy as plugging the motor into a computer and running some commands.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

There are no power limits, only battery ones.


----------



## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

There are no emtbs that I'm aware of that you can't derestrict for less than $200, and one extremely popular one that only requires a free bluetooth app. There are a couple of commuter type bikes that you can't derestrict, so it can be done, but the industry doesn't seem to care about it. 

Hacking the firmware is less of a DIY sort of thing, but a shop can do it since they have the software. Some shops in the EU will set up EU spec ebikes with Class 1 US settings for a fee. 

The entire power self classification of the motors is a pretty fuzzy concept to begin with.


----------



## 1-track-mind (Aug 11, 2005)

leeboh said:


> There are no power limits, only battery ones.


Exactly. Run at full throttle and you are going to be out of juice and pedaling your 50+ pound bike back to the barn...with no horsepower. We buy class one for the uphill boost, not for the adrenaline rush. Somehow this message needs to be explained.


----------



## 1-track-mind (Aug 11, 2005)

Harryman said:


> There are no emtbs that I'm aware of that you can't derestrict for less than $200, and one extremely popular one that only requires a free bluetooth app. There are a couple of commuter type bikes that you can't derestrict, so it can be done, but the industry doesn't seem to care about it.
> 
> Hacking the firmware is less of a DIY sort of thing, but a shop can do it since they have the software. Some shops in the EU will set up EU spec ebikes with Class 1 US settings for a fee.
> 
> The entire power self classification of the motors is a pretty fuzzy concept to begin with.


A slippery slope for sure. Class one pedal assist e-mtbs owners getting caught between a rock and a hard place. Folks who buy a class one, could have just as easily bought a class 2 or class 3 with plenty more power for less money. They did not. The derestrict angle is just one more of the smear tactics used by the mtb community to send E-mtbs to the OHV reservation. We are on a collision course with the MTB community...


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

I have a classes 1 fat bike. (Yamaha pw). I don't use it for mtb trails but did test it out a few night rides just to see how it compares to trails I ride my 29er on. (Bonneville Shoreline Trail, yes leagle) other then mellow flatish stuff, you can't just clown peddle and rip around at 20mph.
I believe the hacks just cheat the 20mph, not torque. The oem gearing was 38x11/42. To get enough torque, I had to put a 32 up front to make steep Unita ATV trails rideable, probably go up to 46 in the rear. Guess a hard tail fat bike isn't a good example of speeds atainible on mtb trails? Guess for climbing it might be 10/12mph vs 5/7 mph? Or 3/4mph vs 6/7 on the steep stuff that few even try to bike.
Bike is also commuter, need to finish up a 29er wheelset and put a 42t for commuting.
2x NW setup without a FD. Entertaining a hack for commuting, I can ride faster down the canyon road on my pedial bike.


----------



## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

1-track-mind said:


> A slippery slope for sure. Class one pedal assist e-mtbs owners getting caught between a rock and a hard place. Folks who buy a class one, could have just as easily bought a class 2 or class 3 with plenty more power for less money. They did not. The derestrict angle is just one more of the smear tactics used by the mtb community to send E-mtbs to the OHV reservation. We are on a collision course with the MTB community...


What class 2 or 3 emtb is available with rider torque surveillance and not bufungle diy? Guess depending on region, the HOV stuff can be more peaceful and challenging then crowded MTB/MUT. Im starting to ask myself "what happened to all the noisy ********"


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

1-track-mind said:


> A slippery slope for sure. Class one pedal assist e-mtbs owners getting caught between a rock and a hard place. Folks who buy a class one, could have just as easily bought a class 2 or class 3 with plenty more power for less money. They did not. The derestrict angle is just one more of the smear tactics used by the mtb community to send E-mtbs to the OHV reservation. We are on a collision course with the MTB community...


 Smear tactic? Hmmm, ok. Try this, it has a motor. It's motorized. Start there.


----------



## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Any device with a battery is going to have significant bias.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

1-track-mind said:


> Run at full throttle and you are going to be out of juice and pedaling your 50+ pound bike back to the barn...with no horsepower. We buy class one for the uphill boost, not for the adrenaline rush. Somehow this message needs to be explained.


We? You can't speak for every rider. People will buy eBikes for different reasons.

The point about technical limitations is that they will change. It doesn't matter what the battery does today, it will be better tomorrow. Mobile phones used to be how big?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Lemonaid said:


> Apparently just like phones and other electronic devices it's possible to "unlock" the firmware on the devices that control the speed and allow users to go faster than they would normally be allowed to travel which essentially defeat the purpose of having them classified. I'm not going to link the source (just google "unlock ebike"), but let's just say it's as easy as plugging the motor into a computer and running some commands.


You can trust that as soon as an e-bike leaves the dealer it is likely to be "upgraded" in a number of ways. There is no practical way to police this.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

No one with an ebike can be trusted. They're going to motor along the trails with their zero skills, sanitize all the good parts, and create erosion while not lifting a finger toward trail maintenance. They are a blight.


----------



## jeffkill (Jul 26, 2005)

Schulze said:


> No one with an ebike can be trusted. They're going to motor along the trails with their zero skills, sanitize all the good parts, and create erosion while not lifting a finger toward trail maintenance. They are a blight.


Wrong. I've been mtn biking over 20 years now. I have a new Stumpjumper and a Levo. I actually ride the SJ more. I know a handful of other people in my area that have been mtn biking just as long as me, if not longer that also have Levo's in their stable. And none of us have hacked the bike to try to make it faster. Plus it does nothing to the trail that my SJ doesn't.

I know there will be people that hack them, and people that poach trails. But we're not all people who just started mtn biking yesterday, looking to make it easy. And I haven't ridden my Levo anywhere that I haven't been given permission by the land owner/manager.


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Schulze said:


> No one with an ebike can be trusted. They're going to motor along the trails with their zero skills, sanitize all the good parts, and create erosion while not lifting a finger toward trail maintenance. They are a blight.


Really? come now, you know that is not true and just an inflammatory post looking to get people riled up. Yes some will do what you say, but many will not.

I wish more people would try and have discussion on here without being super extreme in their views one way or the other.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Klurejr said:


> Really? come now, you know that is not true and just an inflammatory post looking to get people riled up. Yes some will do what you say, but many will not.
> 
> I wish more people would try and have discussion on here without being super extreme in their views one way or the other.


Good luck with that. Ebikes need a completely separate forum and you know it.

FC knows it too. Every post I've seen on ebikes is going to be inflammatory-you said so yourself.


----------



## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

stripes said:


> Good luck with that. Ebikes need a completely separate forum and you know it.
> 
> FC knows it too. Every post I've seen on ebikes is going to be inflammatory-you said so yourself.


MTBR... more famous for haters than 
Idaho is for taters

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

railntrail said:


> MTBR... more famous for haters than
> Idaho is for taters
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Facebook is worse 

It really depends on which sub forum you're on. Some like general discussion and all mountain are pretty bad, others are a bit more community-even virtually.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Klurejr said:


> Really? come now, you know that is not true and just an inflammatory post looking to get people riled up. Yes some will do what you say, but many will not.


Some doing it is all it will take.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stripes said:


> Good luck with that. Ebikes need a completely separate forum and you know it.
> 
> FC knows it too. Every post I've seen on ebikes is going to be inflammatory-you said so yourself.


Crazy thing is even from a commercial $$$ FC will end up with a more valuable property with a separate e-bike site.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

railntrail said:


> MTBR... more famous for haters than
> Idaho is for taters


Try starting a mountain bike sub-forum on a hiking site or a dirt bike site and let me know how well it goes. Trying to force an existing community to accept something you want to force on them for commercial purposes isn't going to go well. That's not the community's fault.


----------



## R38 (Nov 9, 2015)

No, you can not trust ebikes. As a person gets older they need to come to terms with the fact that they can not ride like they did when they were younger.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

R38 said:


> No, you can not trust ebikes. As a person gets older they need to come to terms with the fact that they can not ride like they did when they were younger.


Aging out is inevitable, mopeds aren't.


----------



## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

jeffkill said:


> Wrong. I've been mtn biking over 20 years now.


Mountain bikers built their own credibility, their own org and their own trail maintenance capacity. In large part the effort was to distinguish them from motos.

Are YOU volunteering to do the same thing on behalf of ebikes ( ie advocate, build trail and maintain trail?) If so kudos to you!

Most land managers regulate ebikes as motos. Are YOU volunteering to lobby them otherwise? If so kudos to you!


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fillaroida said:


> Most land managers regulate ebikes as motos.


Isn't that crazy? Treating bikes with motors like motorbikes. It's not even logical!


----------



## railntrail (Jun 18, 2009)

R38 said:


> No, you can not trust ebikes. As a person gets older they need to come to terms with the fact that they can not ride like they did when they were younger.


As a people get older they need to come to terms with the fact that ebikes are a great way to keep on enjoying the trail riding experience that they had when they were younger ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

I gotta wonder how many e-bike haters are OCD STRAVA "racers". E-bikes gonna crush your KOM's!!!!!!! Ah I love it!!!!!!!🤗


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

HacksawReynolds said:


> I gotta wonder how many e-bike haters are OCD STRAVA "racers".


Never used Strava and never will. Don't even use a cycle computer any more, I just want to ride.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Never used Strava and never will. Don't even use a cycle computer any more, I just want to ride.


That makes two of us, Mr Pig. Haven't used a bike computer since 1997 when I had one on a road bike.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Haven't used a bike computer since 1997 when I had one on a road bike.


I find them a distraction from the important business of not crashing my bicycle and having fun.


----------



## howardv (Nov 11, 2016)

I find the mis-information and fear mongering on these boards absolutely asinine and childish. A speed governor doesn't even play a role in mountain biking. You don't go faster downhill (or a straight away) due to a motor on trails. You are limited by your technical ability and the trail on either bike.

An e-bike's purpose is to assist in climbing in mountain biking. Instead of doing 2-3 mph in granny gear, you can do 7-10 mph on those steep inclines. If you don't have the comfort of a chairlift or some other type of trailer service, this is the next best option to go further, and bike more.

I absolutely love ALL my bikes and they should all be allowed on all paths/trails meant for bikes (see attached pic - which doesn't even include my cargo bike in the garage).

There are always those who will abuse everything. We can't pass harsh laws just because of the few idiot abusers. We all share a common passion.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

howardv said:


> We all share a common passion.
> 
> View attachment 1198846


Bicycles, not motor bikes.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

howardv said:


> You are limited by your technical ability and the trail on either bike.


By that logic, dirt-bikes should be allowed on walking paths too then? As they can't really go faster than is safe.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

howardv said:


> An e-bike's purpose is to assist in climbing in mountain biking. Instead of doing 2-3 mph in granny gear, you can do 7-10 mph on those steep inclines.
> 
> View attachment 1198846


So why isn't the assist cut off 2-3 mph instead of 20? You, know, to make it like a bike but with a little assist?


----------



## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Closing speed is my biggest problem with ebikes. My trails are non-directional multi use trails. If I am riding down after busting my ass to climb, I don't want to have to be expecting riders coming at me at 10-20 when no one climbs more than 4-7mph on a real bike.

I don't care if your old, tired or lazy. I don't want to have to watch for descending speeds on uphill sections.


----------



## seal13il (May 13, 2018)

Though a super ultra newb.... I'd like to share a few thoughts..... 1st, I own a gun shop (seems like a big boo boo by many in the riding community), I own many off road vehicles (UTVs, Rock Crawlers etc), I am also One of the biggest public lands cleanups in Northern Nevada, me and the off road club I belong to (Hills Angeles) been doing these clean ups for 15 years now... Not riding groups or "green groups" but us "evil off roaders", same goes for trails like Rubicon or Fordyce in the sierras..... Assumptions are bad!, as per E-bikes, I'm a disabled vet, haven't ridden a bike in over 20 years.... Trying to get in shape and still enjoy the outdoors and still get a bit of adrenalin rush while doing so.... Therefore I joined this forum and started my MTB journey... This weekend I went on the trail testing a few brands.... I'm shocked of how hard the sport is! (and out of shape I am)... Literally climbing and stopping every hundred yards or so for a break lol.... I tested SC Bronson CC and Hightower Lt as well as Jumpstumper carbon expert.... Way way too much bikes forme but.... I can efford it so.... Why not.... Than I tried the e-bike.... Not at all what I thought it will be.... It literally helped in assisting me pedal up the hill.... Like a push.... I was actually able to enjoy the ride more and stop for breaks less.... I was impressed.... Not sure yet which one to go with.... But I was pleased and surprised.... My. 02

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

seal13il said:


> Though a super ultra newb.... I'd like to share a few thoughts..... 1st, I own a gun shop (seems like a big boo boo by many in the riding community), I own many off road vehicles (UTVs, Rock Crawlers etc), I am also One of the biggest public lands cleanups in Northern Nevada, me and the off road club I belong to (Hills Angeles) been doing these clean ups for 15 years now... Not riding groups or "green groups" but us "evil off roaders", same goes for trails like Rubicon or Fordyce in the sierras..... Assumptions are bad!, as per E-bikes, I'm a disabled vet, haven't ridden a bike in over 20 years.... Trying to get in shape and still enjoy the outdoors and still get a bit of adrenalin rush while doing so.... Therefore I joined this forum and started my MTB journey... This weekend I went on the trail testing a few brands.... I'm shocked of how hard the sport is! (and out of shape I am)... Literally climbing and stopping every hundred yards or so for a break lol.... I tested SC Bronson CC and Hightower Lt as well as Jumpstumper carbon expert.... Way way too much bikes forme but.... I can efford it so.... Why not.... Than I tried the e-bike.... Not at all what I thought it will be.... It literally helped in assisting me pedal up the hill.... Like a push.... I was actually able to enjoy the ride more and stop for breaks less.... I was impressed.... Not sure yet which one to go with.... But I was pleased and surprised.... My. 02
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Yeah, most of us don't ride mountain bikes because it's easy.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

seal13il said:


> Though a super ultra newb.... I'd like to share a few thoughts..... 1st, I own a gun shop (seems like a big boo boo by many in the riding community), I own many off road vehicles (UTVs, Rock Crawlers etc), I am also One of the biggest public lands cleanups in Northern Nevada, me and the off road club I belong to (Hills Angeles) been doing these clean ups for 15 years now... Not riding groups or "green groups" but us "evil off roaders", same goes for trails like Rubicon or Fordyce in the sierras..... Assumptions are bad!, as per E-bikes, I'm a disabled vet, haven't ridden a bike in over 20 years.... Trying to get in shape and still enjoy the outdoors and still get a bit of adrenalin rush while doing so.... Therefore I joined this forum and started my MTB journey... This weekend I went on the trail testing a few brands.... I'm shocked of how hard the sport is! (and out of shape I am)... Literally climbing and stopping every hundred yards or so for a break lol.... I tested SC Bronson CC and Hightower Lt as well as Jumpstumper carbon expert.... Way way too much bikes forme but.... I can efford it so.... Why not.... Than I tried the e-bike.... Not at all what I thought it will be.... It literally helped in assisting me pedal up the hill.... Like a push.... I was actually able to enjoy the ride more and stop for breaks less.... I was impressed.... Not sure yet which one to go with.... But I was pleased and surprised.... My. 02
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Get in shape? I vote for a mountain bike. Some others will tell you the ebike will do the same but allow you to "go further" but I'd stick with the mountain bike. And it sounds like you already have motorized vehicles to enjoy.


----------



## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

seal13il said:


> Though a super ultra newb.... I'd like to share a few thoughts..... 1st, I own a gun shop (seems like a big boo boo by many in the riding community), I own many off road vehicles (UTVs, Rock Crawlers etc), I am also One of the biggest public lands cleanups in Northern Nevada, me and the off road club I belong to (Hills Angeles) been doing these clean ups for 15 years now... Not riding groups or "green groups" but us "evil off roaders", same goes for trails like Rubicon or Fordyce in the sierras..... Assumptions are bad!, as per E-bikes, I'm a disabled vet, haven't ridden a bike in over 20 years.... Trying to get in shape and still enjoy the outdoors and still get a bit of adrenalin rush while doing so.... Therefore I joined this forum and started my MTB journey... This weekend I went on the trail testing a few brands.... I'm shocked of how hard the sport is! (and out of shape I am)... Literally climbing and stopping every hundred yards or so for a break lol.... I tested SC Bronson CC and Hightower Lt as well as Jumpstumper carbon expert.... Way way too much bikes forme but.... I can efford it so.... Why not.... Than I tried the e-bike.... Not at all what I thought it will be.... It literally helped in assisting me pedal up the hill.... Like a push.... I was actually able to enjoy the ride more and stop for breaks less.... I was impressed.... Not sure yet which one to go with.... But I was pleased and surprised.... My. 02
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I'm pretty sure disabled people get a pass to use e-bikes, even on non-motorized trails, since they are classified as a mobility devices in that instance. At least that's how it works at our local trails...


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

seal13il said:


> This weekend I went on the trail testing a few brands.... I'm shocked of how hard the sport is! (and out of shape I am)... Literally climbing and stopping every hundred yards or so for a break lol...


We've all been there and getting an eBike is not the answer.

A short-cut to feeling good on a bike is probably the worst reason in the world to buy an eBike. Buy a normal bike and ride it. You will be surprised by how quickly your strength and fitness improves. If you can get out maybe three times a week, start slowly and build up within a month or two you will be feeling much fitter, faster and stronger. We go through the process every year. We don't cycle much over the winter and your fitness suffers so each spring you've got a hill to climb. You start off with a couple of short warm-up rides and build the miles from there. Just now I'm averaging about fifty-miles on the weekend and feeling better all the time.

Just get out and ride. You'll be happier in the long run.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> Really? come now, you know that is not true and just an inflammatory post looking to get people riled up. Yes some will do what you say, but many will not.
> 
> I wish more people would try and have discussion on here without being super extreme in their views one way or the other.


Already seen it happening.

What cannot be denied is people of lower skills or skill-desire going on trails they otherwise would not go. Even if only 5% of them sanitize, the trail is heavily impacted.


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Schulze said:


> What cannot be denied is people of lower skills or skill-desire going on trails they otherwise would not go on.


The old guy who almost ran into me, then ran up a banking and fell off, was brand new to riding and clearly could not control his eBike well at all. He even said to me 'I don't think this mountain biking is for me'.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Closing speed is my biggest problem with ebikes. My trails are non-directional multi use trails. If I am riding down after busting my ass to climb, I don't want to have to be expecting riders coming at me at 10-20 when no one climbs more than 4-7mph on a real bike.
> 
> I don't care if your old, tired or lazy. I don't want to have to watch for descending speeds on uphill sections.


Uh oh someone better call the WHAAAAMBULANCE^^^^^^^


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Sir ^^^^^^^ afganistan has STRAVAHOLE written all over him.😂


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Sir ^^^^^^^ afganistan has STRAVAHOLE written all over him.?


Grow up.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> I find them a distraction from the important business of not crashing my bicycle and having fun.


In life we are either on the clock or paying too much attention to one. Surounded by digital distractions. A bicycle is such a wonderful way to escape all of that krap. Unplug, go ride.👍


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

life behind bars said:


> Grow up.


F that S


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

HacksawReynolds said:


> In life we are either on the clock or paying too much attention to one. Surounded by digital distractions. A bicycle is such a wonderful way to escape all of that krap. Unplug, go ride.👍


Couldn't agree more. On a bike, I don't even want to know the time.


----------



## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Can you trust a class 1 eBike because someone may abuse it?

Can you trust a semi-automatic rifle because someone may convert it to full auto?

Can you trust a steak knife because someone may use it as a weapon?

Can you trust a diesel pickup truck because someone may remove the catalytic converter?



This absurdity of seeking to ban/hyper-regulate a product based on people's behavior is backwards. Regulating an object won't affect a minority of people's behavior, but it does punish the majority of people who want to enjoy that product. This benefits no one but the regulators who grow their budgets and staff so that they can enact and enforce such absurd regulations.


Bottom line.... we should be very skeptical about regulating any product based on a few people's irresponsible behavior. Regulating the product does not alter the irresponsible nature of people.


----------



## seal13il (May 13, 2018)

Jim_bo said:


> Can you trust a class 1 eBike because someone may abuse it?
> 
> Can you trust a semi-automatic rifle because someone may convert it to full auto?
> 
> ...


Amen!, I for one, after spending the past two weeks with a Bronson CC, stumpjumper expert carbon and past week with a EVO can tell u that I was able to go out every day, actually last week twice a day, I see my stats improving tremendously and I don't have the psychological "wall" of... Crap... 10 minutes and I'm dead.... I am finding myself waiting to escape the office early and hit the trail again.... Tomorrow is my lust day on the Evo.... Guess what... I'm 90% leaning towards an e-bike now.... As per idiots abusing it.... Happening every day in every sport.... I personally shut it off going down hill.... Scarry enough as is lol

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

howardv said:


> A speed governor doesn't even play a role in mountain biking. You don't go faster downhill (or a straight away) due to a motor on trails. You are limited by your technical ability and the trail on either bike.
> 
> An e-bike's purpose is to assist in climbing in mountain biking. Instead of doing 2-3 mph in granny gear, you can do 7-10 mph on those steep inclines.
> 
> View attachment 1198846


So, the pedal assist only kicks in when going uphill? I think not. The pedal assist kicks in any time you pedal.

Case in point, a friend of mine recently bought an E-bike. We've ridden together dozens of times in the four years I've known him. In general, I'm in much better shape than he is. We're both skilled/experienced riders on the downhill. On similar non-Ebikes, some days I beat him downhill, others he beats me downhill, but on on the whole I'd say he is the better/faster DH rider.

First time I rode with him on his ~150 mm travel E-bike, I was on my hardtail. We did two laps on an extended downhill (~ 5 miles with only a few short sections of uphill). On sections that required a lot of pumping, jumping and maneuvering the bike, I stayed ahead of him just fine when I lead, and was actually running up on his rear wheel (almost crashed into him twice) in places where I know he would normally be faster than that and wasn't expecting him to slow. I'd say some of that was him acclimating to the E-bike, but definitely some of it him struggling with a bike that weighed nearly twice what mine does.

Any time that the trail grade decreased to the point where you would start to pedal to maintain speed (still downhill but less than 5% grade), he dropped me in an instant. Not just a by twenty yards, I'm talking gone, out of sight, never to be seen again until he stopped to wait for me. Any short punchy climbs interrupting the DH, same story, gone. Sections that required sprinting out of a corner to get back up to max speed, he pulled a gap easily.

On our second lap, I was so gassed from trying to keep up on any pedally sections, he dropped me on sections where I kept up no problem the lap before.

So, while I agree with you that an E-bike doesn't make you faster on a steep downhill where there is no need to pedal (and some sections I'd say it's a disadvantage due to weight), I don't agree with you that E-bikes don't provide a speed advantage on downhills or straight sections.


----------



## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Jim_bo said:


> This absurdity of seeking to ban/hyper-regulate a product based on people's behavior is backwards. Regulating an object won't affect a minority of people's behavior, but it does punish the majority of people who want to enjoy that product. This benefits no one but the regulators who grow their budgets and staff so that they can enact and enforce such absurd regulations.
> 
> Bottom line.... we should be very skeptical about regulating any product based on a few people's irresponsible behavior. Regulating the product does not alter the irresponsible nature of people.


Fair point. I think attacking e-bikes from this angle isn't helpful. This is an idealogical issue plain and simple. Seems most MTBers are against e-bikes on trails because they make the sport too easy which goes against basic principles; it's supposed to be challenging and push personal limits which builds character and physical fitness. E-bikes run counter to those core ideas.

Something easily obtained is not appreciated.


----------



## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

vikb said:


> Try starting a mountain bike sub-forum on a hiking site or a dirt bike site and let me know how well it goes. Trying to force an existing community to accept something you want to force on them for commercial purposes isn't going to go well. That's not the community's fault.


Yeah, I always think that if traditional bike riders dislike ebikes this much, wait until the hiking/horsey crowd starts complaining, and the moto crowd piping up and wanting the same access as ebikes get. It's going to get much worse before it gets better IMO.


----------



## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Jim_bo said:


> Can you trust a class 1 eBike because someone may abuse it?
> 
> This absurdity of seeking to ban/hyper-regulate a product based on people's behavior is backwards. Regulating an object won't affect a minority of people's behavior, but it does punish the majority of people who want to enjoy that product. This benefits no one but the regulators who grow their budgets and staff so that they can enact and enforce such absurd regulations.
> 
> Bottom line.... we should be very skeptical about regulating any product based on a few people's irresponsible behavior. Regulating the product does not alter the irresponsible nature of people.


Can you trust a semi-automatic rifle because someone may convert it to full auto?

Can you trust a steak knife because someone may use it as a weapon?

Can you trust a diesel pickup truck because someone may remove the catalytic converter?

Just don't want want ebikes on certain trails, so yes you can ban them from some.

Your other questions are so ridiculous they don't deserve answers, but here goes...

You can trust a semi auto, but it's illegal to convert to full auto..

You can trust a steak knife, but it's illegal to jam it someones stomach.

Diesel trucks are great, but it's illegal to remove the cat.

Jimbo is allowed to post on here, can you trust him not to be an du%^$#?


----------



## seal13il (May 13, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Can you trust a semi-automatic rifle because someone may convert it to full auto?
> 
> Can you trust a steak knife because someone may use it as a weapon?
> 
> ...


I don't really understand your comments to jimbo... I think he was pretty much on point as well as you were... I think that if a newbie takes his ebike down hill at 40mph....,it won't be long before he meets tree and tree wins.... It's like banning my McLaren from road use and restricting to track use only..... Bottom line is.... I have a Turbo LEVO Carbon Expert on the way and by God it's a blast!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------

