# Why do pro DH'ers ride with their seats quite high?



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Is it for stability? Ninja siting/pedaling in the sections where there are no camera's? Because the seat acts as a spoiler at high speeds and increases down force on the wheels? =\

I've been thinking about it for awhile and the explanations my head is making don't really justify the draw backs.

I'm pretty sure it's my 3rd hypothesis right there!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Pretty sure it's at a height where the rider has good mobility above it, but more importantly has the ability to steer and control the bike with the saddle using their inner thighs.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

for the beginners and intermediates.....a lower saddle will help you on getting your balance lower (lower center of gravity) but this takes away your pedaling ability. 

when you are an advanced rider.......you will have a good attack position and great balance so a higher seat helps you pedal easier and faster


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

You only need your seat low enough for the steepest section on the course. I raise and lower mine for each course. Obviously a taller seat is better for seated pedaling.


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

*family jewels*

I find that if I run my seal too high I will clip the old jewels on the seat when getting over the rear wheel on jumps at high speed...no fun :madman: . Too low of seat will not allow you to use your thighs to steer the bike with the seat...


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

Only time you need saddle to be really low is for bmx, dirt jumps, and trials (okay, Bender style drops also good idea to get the saddle out of the way). The rest of the time I can't see any benefit to more than about 5in below full ride height. I notice most of the pros on the WC are probably at about the 5-6in drop.


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## Hardtails Are Better (May 4, 2005)

You also need to remember that a lot of those guys (Peaty and Rennie come to mind) are fawking TALL.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

when I first started DH on my bike, I'd slam the seat as low as possible and still felt sketchy some times. As I get more comfortable I prefer teh seat higher, gives me more control etc.

I also find that sections I used to ride in a "defencive/submissive" position, ie well behind the seat and low (where I felt more comfortable with a low seat), I now ride prone ie in attack position. This also means I don't need the seat as low to get my weight back far enough.

Plus it makes the quick seated pedal sections more efficient (yes seated, the bike has 8" suspension and I like to use it  )

For me seat at stem height seems about perfect for aggressive riding/DH. :thumbsup:


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## specializedbeta18 (Jul 31, 2008)

Coming from a DJ backround, I ride with my seat relatively higher (not really high) so that I can control my back through my saddle with my inner thighs, as mentioned above. There are also alot of courses with some pedaling sections where the rider sits, we dont always see those.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

I think back in the day, riders thought it was cool to jam their seat all the way down. I'm also guilty of that up untill 5 or so years ago. Now days, I ride with about 5 or 6 inches of seat post to get my seat up to a comfortable "seated position" for pedaling on flater sections. It's good for giving the legs a rest every once in a while, and as others said, I do use it for controling the bike in sketchy sections. It's not so high though, that I can't get way behind my seat when I need to.

I've got a buddy that slams his seat ALL THE WAY down, and he wonders why his legs are so darn sore at the end of the day. We ride Winter Park a lot, which has A LOT of seated-pedaling areas. His knees have to come up so high when he pedals, looks VERY uncomfortable. I tell him he needs to raise it at least a few inches but he doesn't listen. It's like talking to a brick wall. :madman:


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Hardtails Are Better said:


> You also need to remember that a lot of those guys (Peaty and Rennie come to mind) are fawking TALL.


They're around 6"3', so they need a taller seat than most. And even WC riders still need to sit down sometimes.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

I understand how it would more comfortable to pedal with the seat at a taller height but I have never ever seen a pro sit down and pedal on a WC course. This goes back to the theory that everyone does where the cameras aren't at!
As for using the seat to steer the bike - I used to do this too and it felt necessary to have the seat at least in between my knees. But as my skills progressed I don't need the seat anymore to steer the rear of the bike. I can just use my feet on the pedals. I'm sure the pros don't really need it in that aspect.
These guys are TALL - this is true!

But I still don't understand how a high seat can be justified on a DH race. I can understand how for casual DH or FR it's nice to have it at a comfortable height for pedaling but for racing, in my case, I would like to have it low just in case I have a WTF moment and need to drop my body and center of gravity way low to get stability, or to easily reach for the ground with a foot.


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## juanbeegas (Oct 1, 2007)

The UCI DH Worldcup is going on right now, check Freecaster.tv for the scheduled live streams, or look up past races and watch the vids. They sit and pedal from time to time, but if you feel you don't need your saddle at a comfortable enough height for pedaling, what does it matter how high the pros have theirs set at?


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Quarashi said:


> But I still don't understand how a high seat can be justified on a DH race. I can understand how for casual DH or FR it's nice to have it at a comfortable height for pedaling but for racing, in my case, I would like to have it low just in case I have a WTF moment and need to drop my body and center of gravity way low to get stability, or to easily reach for the ground with a foot.


To be fair if you're racing there should be no wtf moments (unless you screw up) since you should have ridden the course a bunch of times and walked it...


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

I was just wondering out of curiosity because I would assume those folks know what they're doing. If there was a good reason it might be a reason to start trying to learn how to maneuver the bike well with a high seat.

Essenmeinstuff - watch your back. I think you just jinxed yourself! The WTF moment is always waiting 'till you least expect it.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Are you just looking at how high their seats are or at how bent their knees are when sitting? The reason I ask is cuz different bikes and rider heights can make it deceiving. If you looked a pic of my bike without me on it you might think I have a high seat (I'm 6'2") but it is completely out of the way and if it were any lower seated pedaling would be pretty useless.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Thats what I wondered, twice at the local resort I had staff ask why my seat was so high... I am 6'2 and am put together like a grasshopper when standing on my pedals my seat was actually a little farther from my junk than there seats where... but side my side my bike looked like it was in XC position.



Lelandjt said:


> Are you just looking at how high their seats are or at how bent their knees are when sitting? The reason I ask is cuz different bikes and rider heights can make it deceiving. If you looked a pic of my bike without me on it you might think I have a high seat (I'm 6'2") but it is completely out of the way and if it were any lower seated pedaling would be pretty useless.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I looking for the right position at the moment. My Wildcard has a 15" seat post and I have been running my seat low while getting my jump and freeride skillz sorted. Trouble is its a killer on the knees trying to pedal it all cramped up. The other problem is I have gotten so used to leaning the bike through corners with no seat in the way that when I run the seat in a pedalling position I cant freaking turn. I know optimal pedaling position is way high but it made me realise that since I have improved sufficiently on the freeride stuff its time to start raising the seat. Now I only drop it low on the DJ stuff.
Gotta try this thigh stearing malarky, sounds cool.


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## Metanoia (Jun 16, 2007)

^yeah how do you do the "thigh steering"? 

say you're bombing on a fast right hander so the bike is leaned to the right and the tall seat is hitting your upper inner thigh, how can you use your thigh to steer more?

also forgot to mention that some guys use it as a gauge to see how far they are leaning on the corners.

or am i missing something?


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## ironzep (Dec 9, 2006)

I thought the same for while, then i realised they're not that high, generally just below the handle bars. they just look it because they stick out of the frame so much


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

you're not really steering with your thigh. its more of a contact point for stability. 

not quite sure how you'd actually steer with your thighs. seems awkward.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Yeti has some pretty decent DH and 4X footage on their site.
Looking at the first riding shots in this:
http://www.yeticycles.com/#/videovault/2009RaceFootage/2009WC5FtWilliam/

it seems that the rider leans the seat against the inside thigh. I guess that could create at least the feeling that you are turning the bike with that thigh.

I also notice that those guys stay pretty centered on the bike during jumps.

In 4X the seat is much lower, but on a hardtail the legs are the only rear suspension.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Low seat- 2 points of contact.
High seat- 3 points of contact.


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

to add to the proof, i guess you would call it, that you use the seat as a point of contact:
http://iamspecialized.com/gravity#/Sam_and_Brendan_at_World_Cup_DH_Round_5

if you go to about the 1:20min mark, Jacy shows Sam Hill's "gripper butt seat". tire treads on top of the saddle to add more grip in the wet. purely e-speculation though. maybe its there for another reason, who knows.

tried finding a pic of it, but i forgot which site it was on (Litter,Dirt,etc...so much coverage this year, hard to find that one pic your looking for)
.
.
.
.
(cant wait to see fanboys rockin that on the mountain...and in dry weather, hah)


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

as a side note, does anyone else think sams mechanic looks like the dude in Shaun of the dead?!


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> You only need your seat low enough for the steepest section on the course. I raise and lower mine for each course. Obviously a taller seat is better for seated pedaling.


Precisely!


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## hankthespacecowboy (Jun 10, 2004)

I'm of the low-seat crowd. I feel like if my seat is trying to stand me up when I'm trying to lean over if I don't have it dropped way down. I can see it would be much handier to be able to ride w/ a higher seat, especially for the pedally bits, but it messes with my world too much to have it at that height. Any tips on learning to use your seat as a contact point?


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## watermoccasin (Jan 28, 2004)

I've started running my seat higher lately, definitely adds control on the technical descents. After a few days at Whistler, my inner thighs are sore about halfway up from pushing against the saddle. Seems to be a carryover from riding more and more motocross, which a lot of the pro DHers do.


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## nogod (May 30, 2009)

watermoccasin said:


> I've started running my seat higher lately, definitely adds control on the technical descents. After a few days at Whistler, my inner thighs are sore about halfway up from pushing against the saddle. Seems to be a carryover from riding more and more motocross, which a lot of the pro DHers do.


which brings us to the subject of a road bike seat on a DH bike. WHY?

if you spend any time riding on rough terrain, one would think that you would notice the huge draw backs of a seat up your ass (unless your into kicking anal things)

if you have ridden a mx bike yoll recall the need to move forwards or backwards on the seat.
a road bike seat (a hold over from early bmx) is a one positon seat. which is great on the road where it is smooth going. 
im happy to see that the bicycle world is finally making progress in technology.
but if they would have just looked at the technology of motocross. say 10 years ago.
we would have been way ahead of where we are today.
basically we are in the early 80's when you compare where dh is with mx. 
i remember the mono shock swing arm war in the mx world in the 80,s. which is the same thing that is going on now in the dh world.

another point i have to make is the handle bars. why do ppl try to ride down a hill with them so low? ah yes ppl say the lower and farther forward the more power you have.
lol thats great on a road but not on dirt. its like those guys that during a race dismount then carry their bike through a rough spot (not dh'ers) lol its because their bike is set up for road not dirt. ive seen plenty of races where mountain bikers come to a little tinny drop and they all endoe there.

but back to the seat issue.
dont get me wrong we all have our different tastes your high may be my low.
but a lot of ppl are just basing their knowledge on what the road ppl are doing.
and well road ppl are stuck in the 40's . yes materials are better but not much else hase changed. like derailleurs. but then road ppl ride out in the middle of the road acting like their driving a car, that drunk dont care if you had the right a way.

but anyway sorry for the rant hahaha

all i was going to say was: P a spring in your seat post, so you can raise and lower it easily on rides. and after im done with my new designed mx style seat ill post a pic
ok you may start your banana seat jokes now


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## specializedbeta18 (Jul 31, 2008)

nogod said:


> which brings us to the subject of a road bike seat on a DH bike. WHY?
> 
> if you spend any time riding on rough terrain, one would think that you would notice the huge draw backs of a seat up your ass (unless your into kicking anal things)
> 
> ...


You typed more than I want to read so I'll respond to the first question. I ride with a Fizik road saddle purely more the weight savings. I've never had any problems with it "intruding?" my places. Any time im moving the bike underneath me, im using standing/out of saddle in an attack position. I've never caught myself changing position while in saddle. Also, being only 150lbs. I don't need a huge as comfort seat, infact i find road saddles really comfortable.


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## nogod (May 30, 2009)

specializedbeta18 said:


> I've never caught myself changing position while in saddle.


 thats because there is only one position in that type of seat.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Low handler bars + slack head angle = good handling at speed and brings you to a better position on the bike. If it's too high your weight is thrown farther back. It's a trend that has come over from DH racing not road biking. DH racers do this because they are skilled enough not to endo on every little drop they hit. The trends move down the chain to less skilled where it doesn't make as much sense.


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

nogod said:


> which brings us to the subject of a road bike seat on a DH bike. WHY?
> 
> if you spend any time riding on rough terrain, one would think that you would notice the huge draw backs of a seat up your ass (unless your into kicking anal things)
> 
> ...


I'll skip that novel and just respond to your first point. Road seat for weight savings. I'm kind of a weight weenie. I can still use the seat for contact points and for maneuvering, and when I'm seated I don't get the "anal probe" feeling you think (or are obsessed with) road seats give you. To be honest, the light high end mtb seats are damn near the same size of road seats, so where's the problem again? You save a little weight and you get the same functionality. I also run road derailleurs. 'Spose that means they're going up my anus too.


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

nogod said:


> bla bla bla...


this is how you know the thread has gone on too long...the trolls start coming out...


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## doodooboi (Dec 29, 2006)

Quarashi said:


> The trends move down the chain to less skilled where it doesn't make as much sense.


since I am admiting to be less skilled I would like to have a better understanding of why a lower handlebar postition with good slack to it is benificail to DH riding.

I recently just got a new fork where my setup is now this way and the riding has changed tremendously. It feels alot more aggressive going into truns/berms. and has made more alert to having my weight shifted back for the steep and rough stuff. I know this is happening but I just don't know why and I really don't know if I like this style of riding yet.

Thanks for the insight in advance.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

I'm not an expert on this but it probably has something to do with riding position as you have experienced. The wrong way to ride DH is (exaggerated) chopper style. To have your weight forward with a slack head angle and your elbows up is the right way to do it. It gives you a more aggressive riding position without compromising the option to shift weight back for the steeps and drops.


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

doodooboi said:


> since I am admiting to be less skilled I would like to have a better understanding of why a lower handlebar postition with good slack to it is benificail to DH riding.
> 
> I recently just got a new fork where my setup is now this way and the riding has changed tremendously. It feels alot more aggressive going into truns/berms. and has made more alert to having my weight shifted back for the steep and rough stuff. I know this is happening but I just don't know why and I really don't know if I like this style of riding yet.
> 
> Thanks for the insight in advance.


keeps center of gravity low and it also helps you weight the front in the corners. Also makes it easier to pump


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## doodooboi (Dec 29, 2006)

Quarashi said:


> I'm not an expert on this but it probably has something to do with riding position as you have experienced. The wrong way to ride DH is (exaggerated) chopper style. To have your weight forward with a slack head angle and your elbows up is the right way to do it. It gives you a more aggressive riding position without compromising the option to shift weight back for the steeps and drops.


Thanks! Good explanation, short and simple.

Sorry to derail but.......

I am rocking some sunline low pro's right now. I was planning on swapping to the higher rise that they got but we'll see. I have only two rides on this setup so far and it's been pretty fun. I do kinda like the higher rise feel only for the really steep or really gnar sections in trails or when it's steep and gnarly. But Like I said it has made me more concience of keeping a little more weight to the back to get the front to plow through stuff a little better. Still got ride it a little more to see if I like it. Small debate between being able to attack the berms/turns or having a more back feeling on the steep/gnarly stuff. You know how it is gotta give a little to get a little. So will see.

Anyone else got more input on this and there riding style and advice.


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## Uncle Six Pack (Aug 29, 2004)

Quarashi said:


> I've been thinking about it for awhile and the explanations my head is making don't really justify the draw backs.


What are the drawbacks (in a DH race)? You gonna tell a pro DHer that they are riding wrong? The pump and flow so well that the bike becomes a completely different machine under them.

Low seats are for dirt-jumping and slopestyle. Maybe also for when you are trying to protect your junk on some really hairy stuff. I admit to riding with the seat too low sometimes when I am in an unfamiliar place, trying something for the first time, or shuttling really hard trails.

Racers are not throwing tricks, going for lots of height, etc. If they are serious, they know the track very well, no surprises.

Personally, if I get a chance to sit during a hard downhill, I look at it as a moment to rest to get ready for the next techy spot. If my seat is at a good height, I can "rest" while still pedaling. I am not a racer, but I like going fast.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Uncle Six Pack said:


> What are the drawbacks (in a DH race)? You gonna tell a pro DHer that they are riding wrong? The pump and flow so well that the bike becomes a completely different machine under them.


The main draw back i feel when I have the seat (relatively) high is discomfort in cornering. It doesn't feel right when you can't get very low for a hard corner and even more so in a rough corner.
I know the pro's are not wrong. Pedaling is probably a very strong reason to have it high. After checking out some videos it does seem that they get some use in maneuvering. Any good pics of racers and their seat height relative to their own height?


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

doodooboi said:


> Thanks! Good explanation, short and simple.
> 
> Sorry to derail but.......
> 
> ...


In my opinion I'd say stick with the low bars. Riding steeps for me has been just about getting used to it and learning how to position your body. I recently tried doing some DH tracks on an AM bike and I didn't have much trouble with steeps (I wasn't going DH fast). But yeah, I think the steeps are more skill related and the advantage that low bars give you else where will make you a faster riding in my opinion.


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## doodooboi (Dec 29, 2006)

Quarashi said:


> In my opinion I'd say stick with the low bars. Riding steeps for me has been just about getting used to it and learning how to position your body. I recently tried doing some DH tracks on an AM bike and I didn't have much trouble with steeps (I wasn't going DH fast). But yeah, I think the steeps are more skill related and the advantage that low bars give you else where will make you a faster riding in my opinion.


yeah I am kinda thinking the same thing right now. you know thou, having a lower front end makes me lower my seat a little more so that I can get the space to get behind the seat if need be. Here we have lots of trails that are plenty steep and super rocky where you need your weight towards the back end of the bike. I usually keep my seat hieght at or just below the bar level. But now that my bars are pretty low now I tend to lower my seat a little more. I am trying to keep it the original hieght and ride it that way but I tend to feel too front heavy coming off drops and jumps. It's so weird that just a few mm can change the asspect of your riding style and your bike in a whole!

Thanks again for the great insights guys!!!


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Quarashi said:


> In my opinion I'd say stick with the low bars. Riding steeps for me has been just about getting used to it and learning how to position your body.


I find that a tall bar puts me too high over the bike, whatever the situation. Rider dimensions will certainly play a role in how high or low the bar needs to be.


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## nogod (May 30, 2009)

brillantesdv said:


> this is how you know the thread has gone on too long...the trolls start coming out...


at least my post had information relevant to the original post!

if you actually read my post i stated seat height is a matter of taste and i should have said style.

but im just saying that ic alot of ppl (not pro's) trying to ride DH (real DH not some trail)
with their seat above their bars. this is a road saddle and bar position style and has nothing to do with DH.

and yes mtb bike saddles are just like road bike saddles, because they are road saddles.:madman:

so basically you guys are saying its ok to ride with the bike geometry wrong if you got skill.

ill stop here since some ppl here have low attention spans


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## siyross (May 19, 2009)

There is a simple answer to this. Downhill guys don't really need the seat. They spend most of the time standing on the pedals and then when they are tired they sit back down for a short time. Look at the amount that they bend their legs and arms and how low they get on the bike. A high seat would really get in the way.


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## uncle-mofo (Jul 14, 2006)

Also when you slip your pedals it's less of a drop to smash teh bawls.


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## chicohigh5 (Mar 15, 2007)

siyross said:


> There is a simple answer to this. Downhill guys don't really need the seat. They spend most of the time standing on the pedals and then when they are tired they sit back down for a short time. Look at the amount that they bend their legs and arms and how low they get on the bike. A high seat would really get in the way.


you obviously dont know what your talking about there are hardly any downhill riders that have the stamina to race run a track standing up the entire time.


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## brillantesdv (Oct 24, 2007)

chicohigh5 said:


> you obviously dont know what your talking about there are hardly any downhill riders that have the stamina to race run a track standing up the entire time.


i wanted to say it, but people seem to get defensive when you tell them they're wrong around here.


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## chicohigh5 (Mar 15, 2007)

i usually let it be but this was a case of sheer stupidity


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## siyross (May 19, 2009)

chicohigh5 said:


> you obviously dont know what your talking about there are hardly any downhill riders that have the stamina to race run a track standing up the entire time.


Actually if you watch the downhill racers they DO stand up for most of the race. Just because you are too unfit to do it doesn't mean they can't


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## siyross (May 19, 2009)

chicohigh5 said:


> i usually let it be but this was a case of sheer stupidity


chicohigh5

Who the F**k are you to tell me I am stupid you twat


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## mtnbkr123 (May 15, 2007)

Well, if I call you stupid too, is he allowed to stand by it?


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

mtnbkr123 said:


> Well, if I call you stupid too, is he allowed to stand by it?


Me three.

And to answer your first question siyross, I believe he is chicohigh5.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Children, children...


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