# 50+ Riders Could Give Advice to Youngsters



## kaBLOOnie (Sep 22, 2017)

It seems like a real opportunity is being missed. I don't see posts on this sub-forum helping the young riders avoid wasting thousands of dollars chasing the latest-and-greatest bike technology.

After all, we are supposed to be shrewd consumers by the time we get to our age. The young are supposed to be suckers at the mercy of the media and all its hype. And they are also at the mercy of testosterone and male ego.

It seems to me that 95% of what gets talked about on mtbr is just hype that puts money in the pockets of the industry. Most of the hype wouldn't pass the 'blind taste test.'

Changing the design of some bike part by 5% only increases some benefit by 1%. But the hype tries to convince you that something will get better by 50%. And therefore you should pay an extra $2000 for that tiny change.

Geezers should do the young a favor by convincing them to protect their wallets against this half-insane consumerist fanaticism.


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Half-insane consumerist fanaticism is good for the LBS... and my stock portfolio.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I go to the Beginner subforum and dispense crusty half-wisdom regularly.

Only goes so far - the majority of MTBR posters are into shopping as much if not more than riding.


----------



## kaBLOOnie (Sep 22, 2017)

"...dispense crusty half-wisdom regularly." I cackled with glee when I read that.

And you are right. On this sub-forum we are all infinitely experienced with the ways of the world, and are profoundly wise. (grin) So it would be preaching to the choir to offer our wisdom.

I am going to look at the Beginner sub-forum for installments of your crusty wisdom.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Folk don't like being told that a rigid steel singlespeed is the best bike for them. 

And it's even better if it's secondhand because you can spend the difference on the important stuff, wheels, tyres, and beer.

Speed is a relative sensation, and you can enjoy that sensation better when the bike isn't doing all the work, so you don't need a flash bike. (Racing is a different ballgame, I assume we're talking recreational riding).

They also don't like to be told to avoid all the heroic stuff like big jumps and drops and fast downhill. They haven't seen their riding companions gradually evaporate off the scene due to accumulated or catastrophic injuries...

So I'll generally follow the advice I got many years ago and keep my mouth shut.


----------



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^+1 Most are just looking for an excuse to buy the latest greatest fad bike. Rigid IGH in my case.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

"50+ Riders Could Give Advice to Youngsters"

Take care of your teeth.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
Don't stand there with the refrigerator door open.
Work to live, don't live to work.
He who hesitates is lost....
On the other hand, haste makes waste.
Women are psychic. They always know when you're about to have sex.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

MSU Alum said:


> "50+ Riders Could Give Advice to Youngsters"
> 
> Take care of your teeth.
> Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
> ...


And get off my lawn!


----------



## adaycj (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm not quite 50 yet but I am a coach on a kids MTB team. I almost never hear any advice given to these kids, who actually ride their bikes, about the latest and greatest tech or pricey stuff. Mostly we are trying to get them on bikes that work, don't fall apart multiple times per ride, and don't have a flat every 6 miles. Something that kind of fits it nice too. 

Around here the "latest and greatest" latest marketing wiz bang stuff you seem to want to slam is mostly perpetrated by the older riders who seem to have the disposable cash to buy mid and deep four figure bikes new. 

It likely won't be popular here but in my opinion kids need less advice about anti-consumerism rants and more real examples about how to develop a healthy lifestyle they can maintain for a long term and enjoyable life. The work and enjoyment involved seems to transcend the all mighty dollar anyway.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

adaycj said:


> ...It likely won't be popular here but in my opinion kids need less advice about anti-consumerism rants and more real examples about how to develop a healthy lifestyle they can maintain for a long term and enjoyable life...


Perhaps couch the advice in terms of a version of the Pareto Rule, it's 80% you and 20% bike.

You have to spend a lot of money to improve that 20%, whereas if you get off your ass, you can improve that 80% for free. 

I spent my early cycling years rattling around on cast off worn out old roadsters, heading off up any track I could find, and then when I had plenty money wasted it trying to recapture that feeling.

It took a lot of time to realise that it's not about the bike, it's about going the distance, it's about the destination, it's about the ride, but it's definitely not about the bike. The latest in gears and suspension, or unobtanium frame materials are no substitute for fitness.

The less bike the better.


----------



## TM1000 (Jun 20, 2018)

Velobike said:


> Perhaps couch the advice in terms of a version of the Pareto Rule, it's 80% you and 20% bike.
> 
> You have to spend a lot of money to improve that 20%, whereas if you get off your ass, you can improve that 80% for free.
> 
> ...


VERY well said.:thumbsup: I have just as much fun riding my old bike as my buddy does who rides a fairly latest and greatest dual susp bike. It's about the ride.


----------



## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

Them young whippersnappers don't want to hear from an old dinosaur when the lastest issue of Boss Biker Quarterly is all about some new technology that all the Rad factory riders are sportin'.

I guess it all depends on perspective. In the old days I was frugal and stubborn--one of the last holdouts to abandon rim brakes, narrow bars, 3x9, skinny tires, fixed seatpost... 

I'll still counsel the youngin's to save their hard-earned cash and resist the temptation to jump on the latest bandwagon. But now that I'm older and carry around thick wads of tens and twenties in my pocket, I'm less hesitant to throw down for some of the latest bling.


----------



## broncbuster (Jun 11, 2006)

chazpat said:


> And get off my lawn!


And if you're ever up to your neck in $hit keep your mouth shut..


----------



## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Word up. You don't need to have the best **** at first but you'll really appreciate newer better stuff as your skill calls for it.

I do agree that getting people on two wheels is important but I think keeping people on two wheels is even more so.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

cyclelicious said:


> Word up. You don't need to have the best **** at first but you'll really appreciate newer better stuff as your skill calls for it....


Agree.

But while you're young and impecunious you have far better results improving yourself than by spending the money on the bike.

Once you get old and gnarly it's more of a battle to maintain than improve yourself, but you can afford to improve the bike.


----------



## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Sounds like every old man rant ever


----------



## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

kaBLOOnie said:


> Geezers should do the young a favor by convincing them to protect their wallets against this half-insane consumerist fanaticism.


I often do exactly that and guess what? Typically all I get for it is flack. People_ want _the stuff, people _want_ to spend the money and you know what? Who cares. Effects my life not one bit.


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I figure money is pretty useless until you spend it. The trick is deciding on what and when to spend it. While improved performance is often the reason proffered for buying new/better stuff, that's usually just the superficial justification.


----------



## JLDickmon (Jun 4, 2018)

MSU Alum said:


> "50+ Riders Could Give Advice to Youngsters"
> 
> Take care of your teeth.
> Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
> ...


Make a decision and act. If it was the wrong decision, learn. If it was the right decision, learn.

And get off my lawn.


----------



## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

kaBLOOnie said:


> It seems like a real opportunity is being missed. I don't see posts on this sub-forum helping the young riders avoid wasting thousands of dollars chasing the latest-and-greatest bike technology.
> 
> After all, we are supposed to be shrewd consumers by the time we get to our age. The young are supposed to be suckers at the mercy of the media and all its hype. And they are also at the mercy of testosterone and male ego.
> 
> ...


You know, there's nothing wrong with advancements in bike design and tech. But you're right, claimed improvement percentages probably don't result in the same percent of rider improvement. My 57 year old advise on the question of maximizing rider improvement using new design and advancement is learn to ride on older tech... a 26" early XC full sus (80-100mm) or even a hard tail. Eventually you'll be able to keep up with your buddies on their cool new toys. Trust me, that old bike can indeed cover the same terrain as new bikes in the right hands. Then, and only then, upgrade to the latest and greatest. At that point on a new ride, you will reap maximum potential on that new geometry and technology, and you will absolutely blow your astonished riding buddies away because you _really_ know how to ride using skill versus technology.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

fredcook said:


> You know, there's nothing wrong with advancements in bike design and tech. But you're right, claimed improvement percentages probably don't result in the same percent of rider improvement. My 57 year old advise on the question of maximizing rider improvement using new design and advancement is learn to ride on older tech... a 26" early XC full sus (80-100mm) or even a hard tail. Eventually you'll be able to keep up with your buddies on their cool new toys. Trust me, that old bike can indeed cover the same terrain as new bikes in the right hands. Then, and only then, upgrade to the latest and greatest. At that point on a new ride, you will reap maximum potential on that new geometry and technology, and you will absolutely blow your astonished riding buddies away because you _really_ know how to ride using skill versus technology.


Meh.

I spent many years on old school bikes and still have a number that I take on semi-regularly. There are millions of better riders than I out there who have never forced themselves to ride dinosaurs.


----------



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I would suggest building/assembling your own bike at some point, from a hardtail frame and parts you acquire, starting simple and affordable. This will put you in a position to service and improve your bike by doing your own work and grabbing deals on used or new parts as they come along. Push it as far as you want/can afford. A good wheelset would be my priority improvement. A serviceable work stand, some tools, and a reliable floor pump, are fundamental.


----------



## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

Life’s too short to ride a shitty bike :nono:


----------



## roadkill401 (Mar 14, 2017)

bsieb said:


> I would suggest building/assembling your own bike at some point, from a hardtail frame and parts you acquire, starting simple and affordable. This will put you in a position to service and improve your bike by doing your own work and grabbing deals on used or new parts as they come along. Push it as far as you want/can afford. A good wheelset would be my priority improvement. A serviceable work stand, some tools, and a reliable floor pump, are fundamental.


Did that when I was young. it was called being dirt poor. And you assembled the bike from parts you could find in order to keep a bike running. Now that I have some brass in pocket, I can pay for someone who knows what they are doing to put together a bike that will work well (ie buy a decent new bike from a respectable company) and not need to figure out source parts. And todays decent bikes don't break down nearly as much, but that might be as I am getting old and don't do crazy stunts that would get you killed.


----------



## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

A few things I've learned...not necessarily specific to mountain biking

Follow your passion...not the crowd
Keep an open mind, you may learn something
Learn from mistakes (yours and others) and constantly improve
Talk less...do more
Age + Injuries = Long recovery...It's OK to go around what you used to go over
Frank Zappa was right...SLIME is oozing out of your TV
Beer is good...too much beer is bad


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

"Never waste a day waiting for friends to go biking." Learn to appreciate riding solo. Life is too short to always be waiting for someone else.

Also, "Don't get a lawn."


----------



## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Nat said:


> "Never waste a day waiting for friends to go biking." Learn to appreciate riding solo. Life is too short to always be waiting for someone else.


So true...I ride 3X/week with one ride being solo. I tend to take fewer risks on technical terrain but I push myself harder cardio-wise because I'm not stopping to wait for anyone. Got to be smart though...especially on winter night rides in slick conditions bad sh*t can happen riding solo.

Solo is great for skiing too...No friends on a powder day!


----------



## b622r (Sep 20, 2006)

I can't tell if I am old or young:

I love spending money on bikes, but I want to get exactly what I pay for...just went back to aluminum! If I want to get 1 pound of weight savings, I drink 2 cups of coffee on way to trail head and take a big dump before ride. To me, "supplements" means two Snickers bars. I generally bring a couple of beers in a small cooler and drink them on the way home, even if I ride alone...which I do, a lot. If my kids found out, they would disown me...until of course, they needed money. My fastest bike is still an 09 26" Stumpjumper... That was 2 bikes ago. I think it's because I was a faster rider then, so I am used to riding that bike fast. It would be like running into an old girlfriend, you have aged, and she is still 21, and blind.

2018 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp
2016 Giant XTC Advanced 1
2009 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

b622r said:


> I generally bring a couple of beers in a small cooler and drink them on the way home


Are you drinking while driving?


----------



## b622r (Sep 20, 2006)

Nat said:


> Are you drinking while driving?


Well...let's put this in context. I do not drink two beers in the parking lot and drive home. With year heart rate up and empty stomach...that would put your BAC in the .04-.06 range...not good.

I will crack a beer while loading up. Usually second beer is for clean-up at home. To answer your question specifically, I may be in violation of Florida's open container law which is a moving violation, like speeding. I don't speed, so I think that cancels it out. Plus this is Florida and I look white, so I would have to drive around with a dead hooker on the hood of my car to get pulled over.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

b622r said:


> Well...let's put this in context. I do not drink two beers in the parking lot and drive home. With year heart rate up and empty stomach...that would put your BAC in the .04-.06 range...not good.
> 
> I will crack a beer while loading up. Usually second beer is for clean-up at home. To answer your question specifically, I may be in violation of Florida's open container law which is a moving violation, like speeding. I don't speed, so I think that cancels it out. Plus this is Florida and I look white, so I would have to drive around with a dead hooker on the hood of my car to get pulled over.


Potentially my favorite post ever.


----------



## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Velobike said:


> Perhaps couch the advice in terms of a version of the Pareto Rule, it's 80% you and 20% bike.
> 
> You have to spend a lot of money to improve that 20%, whereas if you get off your ass, you can improve that 80% for free.
> 
> ...


Of course fitness is important, but for me it is definitely about the bike. A new bike with the latest and greatest technology and especially geometry is far more enjoyable, capable, and confidence-inspiring than an older bike. My best advice to anyone who is serious about the sport is to get the best bike you can afford. Buying used is a great way to get more bike for your dollar too.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Skooks said:


> Of course fitness is important, but for me it is definitely about the bike...


Yeah, it's probably not wise to take bike advice from someone who rides a 70 year old bike like this around the local mtb course and thinks it's fun.


----------



## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Velobike said:


> Yeah, it's probably not wise to take bike advice from someone who rides a 70 year old bike like this around the local mtb course and thinks it's fun.


It definitely depends on the type of riding you do. if your ancient bike works for you on your local trails then great. I am pretty sure you wouldn't have fun riding it on the trails near me. I don't mind spending my money on the right tool for the job, and I sure enjoy riding my new bike.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Skooks said:


> It definitely depends on the type of riding you do. if your ancient bike works for you on your local trails then great. I am pretty sure you wouldn't have fun riding it on the trails near me. I don't mind spending my money on the right tool for the job, and I sure enjoy riding my new bike.


Don't worry, it was just to see if it was possible.


----------



## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Buy a new bike every year, 
Buy every upgrade you can find,
Become a Strava racer,
,
NOT


----------



## Can2pir (Nov 27, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Potentially my favorite post ever.


Mine too!


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

b622r said:


> Well...let's put this in context. I do not drink two beers in the parking lot and drive home. With year heart rate up and empty stomach...that would put your BAC in the .04-.06 range...not good.
> 
> I will crack a beer while loading up. Usually second beer is for clean-up at home. To answer your question specifically, I may be in violation of Florida's open container law which is a moving violation, like speeding. I don't speed, so I think that cancels it out. Plus this is Florida and I look white, so I would have to drive around with a dead hooker on the hood of my car to get pulled over.


Ha ha, that's funny. Based on how you wrote your post, I pictured you tossing back a crisp cool one (or two) _while_ driving.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Florida Man strikes again:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopn...-wasnt-drinking-and-driving-be-1827543116/amp


----------



## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

MSU Alum said:


> "50+ Riders Could Give Advice to Youngsters"
> 
> Take care of your teeth.
> Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
> ...


"And wear sunscreen." - M. Schmich


----------



## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

Velobike said:


> Don't worry, it was just to see if it was possible.


Success?


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

bbarry404 said:


> Success?


I lived. 

It was surprising what it could be ridden through, but no heroics were attempted (didn't want to break the bike or myself). Worked ok on the gravelly stuff and with care on the minor lumpy bits, but brakes and tyres were a limitation (as expected).

What spurred it was a discussion I had been having with some friends about gravel bikes and their design. I said look to the old bikes for what geometry works because gravel was the usual road surface in their time, and they were the main form of personal transport.

It did demonstrate is that those old bikes are capable enough on rough terrain, however with the better and wider tyres we have now, not to mention brakes that actually work, we can do it better. 

BTW that was a 26"x1⅜" wheel bike. I'll be repeating the exercise on a 28"x1⅜" wheel bike because I think that's a better comparison.


----------



## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

I dunno. 
I tend to think the shortcuts, applicable or even helpful advice we might offer to help others save money will just rob them of valuable experiences and 'life' that exists in real-time and reacts or responds in ways we can cannot predict. 

I've seen teen parents carrying a baby around while shopping for a $4000 entertainment system and the kid was in a diaper, not even clothed. These folks couldn't afford to do laundry or buy healthy food and supplies yet were ready to spend money on fancy things. 

* If the youngsters wanting bikes are above such lunacy, I say go on and LIVE. Enjoy the shopping experience and keep things in context.
You'll learn some about bikes and biking but a lot more about yourself along the way. We don't need to steal it from you just to seem helpful or pet our egos. (Thanks for asking though). :thumbsup:

If you spent too much or went too fancy and sweat the next rent, mortgage or car payment, SEE ? 
Ya went and learned something valuable about yourself !


----------



## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

*Don't be modest!*



Velobike said:


> I lived.  ...It was surprising what it could be ridden through, but no heroics were attempted...


I knew I saw you on you tube!


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Wacha Wacha Wacha said:


> I knew I saw you on you tube!


I wish! 

Take a look at the shape the back wheel gets into at 4:51 and then straightens out.


----------



## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

What standard you think that hub is? :lol: Who needs lateral stiffness?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

We have a kid that shows up on the weekly rides with the bike shop, 23 years old in med school. Rides his dad's old Cannondale Killer V fully. Bke is cool... Real time capsule. 
Anyway, he always complains that he needs a new bike and he's trying to save up EIGHT GRAND or some friggin' new bike. 
I tried telling him to just take it easy on himself and get a Surly Krampus or some hardtail with big wheels and modern geometry. It will make the ride so much easier. Doesn't want to listen. You can lead a horse to water...


----------



## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

NYrr496 said:


> We have a kid that shows up on the weekly rides with the bike shop, 23 years old in med school. Rides his dad's old Cannondale Killer V fully. Bke is cool... Real time capsule.
> Anyway, he always complains that he needs a new bike and he's trying to save up EIGHT GRAND or some friggin' new bike.
> I tried telling him to just take it easy on himself and get a Surly Krampus or some hardtail with big wheels and modern geometry. It will make the ride so much easier. Doesn't want to listen. You can lead a horse to water...


Good one ! 
And little does he know, he is netting more respect riding that classic or relic as a humble student than he may ever get as a full-fledged Doctor riding a $10,000 bike he pays cash for.


----------



## kaBLOOnie (Sep 22, 2017)

I originally started this thread because I was frustrated and disappointed by this sub-forum. Too many of the commenters sounded like somebody who was 25 years old instead of 50+.

This was disappointing because it is like saying that you have spent many years in a long life in bicycling, but you haven't learned anything. Isn't that like saying that you've wasted your life.

Overpaying for small design changes is just one of the things I happily leave to youngsters. But there are other things like:

1. Avoiding injuries.
2. Dealing with solo riding issues, or group issues for that matter.
3. How to keep the sport fun when you have reached your plateau.
4. How to make the sport more multi-dimensional instead of obsessing over "How far?" and "How fast?"

Maybe there are other issues that you think come up, and you are thinking, "I should be shrewder and wiser than the average commenter on MTBR and should be able to contribute something."


----------



## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

kaBLOOnie said:


> I originally started this thread because I was frustrated and disappointed by this sub-forum. Too many of the commenters sounded like somebody who was 25 years old instead of 50+.
> 
> This was disappointing because it is like saying that you have spent many years in a long life in bicycling, but you haven't learned anything. Isn't that like saying that you've wasted your life.
> 
> ...


I've learned stuff during my time on this planet, just as I've learned stuff by reading this forum. What I haven't learned yet is how to get someone else to believe that they should listen to anything I have to say about anything. It falls on deaf ears. 'Twas ever thus. I just smile and wish them good luck. My grandmother was not wrong when she said, "You youngsters will find out what it's like to get old, IF YOU DON'T DIE FIRST!!!"


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

kaBLOOnie said:


> I originally started this thread because I was frustrated and disappointed by this sub-forum. Too many of the commenters sounded like somebody who was 25 years old instead of 50+....


Maybe riding an mtb keeps you young? 

Perhaps that should be the message.

Example rather than advice is probably the best way to get the message across.

If you want someone to listen to your advice, first you have to create the receptivity. Ears close shut when older people offer advice, but eyes open wide when young people see older people doing stuff that they think is hard, and the ears open then too.

BTW in light of what I posted above about my attempts to punt a 70 year old bike around the local mtb course, I took it a step further http://forums.mtbr.com/gravel-bikes/what-happens-when-you-take-70-year-old-bike-gravel-riding-1084388.html

I have always preached that it doesn't matter what bike you have, you just need a functional one, you can still get into the mountains. Obviously the optimum for purpose will ride better, but any bike anywhere is my message, and the rest is up to the skill of the rider. I aim to get the young ones to realise that it's not the possession that matters, it's the memory it creates.


----------



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Let the youth find out for themselves, that is half the adventure. Older you get the less you know...


----------



## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

If someone has the money to buy the latest and greatest, every few years, good on them. That means there will be some sweet used bikes floating around that actually are not stolen. 

I have no problem with riding the latest and greatest every ten years or so. I bought my current daily rider in early 2012, and I'm hoping by 2022 that the wheel/axle wars will have shaken themselves out. My Slash is a 26", and it is incredible how fast 26" wheel stuff has disappeared. I am thinking of replacing my fork, but do you know how many 26" single crown 160mm travel forks with a 20mm thru axle are now being made? None. Nada. Zilch. I'm going to have to find an NOS one or take the hit on geometry with a 27.5 fork and replace the front wheel with a 15x110. Except wait, do you know how many 15x110, 26" wheels are being sold? None. I'll have to have one built. Which means I'll have to find a decent 26" rim. 

At least I was able to refresh the components without any issues. Thank God for threaded bottom brackets, which I hope return by 2022.


----------



## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I have a piece of advice for the youngsters new to this forum. 

You're not old yet.
Work your body, get breathless every day.
Avoid heroics that can break your body.
If you don't want breasts and a belly, cut down the beer.
Go adventuring now while you are still young. Get a gravel bike and go places instead of riding in circles.
There's 3 sorts of fun. The sort you have lying down, the sort you have sitting down, and the sort you have upright. Save the middle sort for when you can't do the other two.

And finally:

Never give up.


----------



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Lone Rager said:


> Half-insane consumerist fanaticism is good for the LBS... and my stock portfolio.


That came to mind and the reality that what some call hype really helps me be a 50+ and better rider.


----------

