# 2019 Whyte 905 vs 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon D+?



## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

Hello! In about a month, I will be purchasing my first mountain bike. I have pretty much narrowed it down to these two:


2019 Whyte 905
https://www.whyteusa.bike/collections/trail-hardtail-2019/products/905-19
Price: $1900
Main Features:
Fork: RockShox Revelation RC 130
Dropper: YES
Drivetrain: SRAM NX Eagle 12 Speed
Brakes: SRAM Guide T
Tires: Maxxis High Roller II TR
Frame: Apparently really good but haven't heard as much about it
Weight: 28.5 lbs
Warranty: Decent




2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon D+
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/chameleon
Price: $1800
Main Features:
Fork: RockShox Recon RL 130
Dropper: NO
Drivetrain: SRAM NX 11 Speed
Brakes: SRAM Level
Tires: Maxxis Rekon EXO TR
Frame: Probably the best in this category
Weight: 29.1 lbs
Warranty: Great



So obviously, you get much better components on the 905 for only $100 more. Also, it scored a perfect 10/10 on MBR. However, the Chameleon's frame is hard to beat and apparently should last a really long time. Also, I'd have to pre-order the 905 and it would arrive in late March (I honestly wouldn't mind waiting if it were the better bike).

I pretty much just ride normal single tracks in Georgia. I don't do many drops or jumps yet but I'm planning on working my way up to that. Also, I'll be going on a mountain biking trip to Fruita, CO in June so I guess that means I'll be riding lots of rocky stuff.

Which of these bikes would you guys choose?


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

Both great bikes. Regarding purchase price... the fork alone is a $300-$400 dollar difference, so certainly more bang for your dollar on the Whyte. But, since the Whyte is consumer direct, and the Santa Cruz traditional retail, it's not 100% apples to apples on the purchase price. No sales tax either on the Whyte since you're in GA. But you probably already know all of this.

I own a Whyte, but not the 905. Overall Whyte build quality is really good. The geometry, at least for my T-130, is really well thought out. Component match and selection is good. 
I've been satisfied with their customer service, although I hadn't needed support much beyond sales and delivery. Very personable when I did need to contact them. The only thing is, Whyte's sell fast. Last year, they were pretty cleaned out (in the U.S.) by July. So if you want a Whyte, don't hesitate to pull the trigger when they're available.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

The Revelation fork is awesome! They beefed up the stanchions on it over the previous model. Also, you can't go wrong with an NX Eagle drivetrain! The NX Eagle is a bit heavy when compared to the GX Eagle and above, but it's built to last.

If you ever decide to upgrade the wheels on the Whyte, make sure you buy a set with standard freehubs. The NX Eagle was designed for standard hubs. The GX Eagle and above were designed for SRAM XD freehubs.

Plus the SRAM Guide brakes are a notch better than the SRAM Levels.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

Thank you! I'm really glad to hear that the Whyte's frame is good as well and not just its components. How is Whyte's dropper post compared to say the Brand X Ascend XL, since they are around the same price? Is the lever flimsy? Is the post sticky?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

jtkyber said:


> Thank you! I'm really glad to hear that the Whyte's frame is good as well and not just its components. How is Whyte's dropper post compared to say the Brand X Ascend XL, since they are around the same price? Is the lever flimsy? Is the post sticky?


That's hard to say. What dropper do they use? If you don't like the lever, you can always pick up an aftermarket one and swap it out. I did that immediately when I bought my Sentinel. The Race Face dropper remotes are pure garbage. I love using PNW Components Loam Levers and their dropper posts on all of my bikes. You can also check out Wolf Tooth Components droppers too. The droppers I use are the 170mm PNW Components Rainier IRs.

Do you plan on riding in the cold weather? Some droppers stick in the cold weather. My Race Face Aeffect dropper begins to stick when it's cold enough (around 30 degrees). I learned later on that it's due to the cartridge design that Race Face used for the dropper post. Luckily my PNW Components droppers don't stick when it's cold outside.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

It comes with the Whyte "Drop it" dropper post. Yeah I ride in the winter sometimes when it's like 20-45 degrees. If I had to buy a new dropper, I would get the Ascend and pick up a new lever later on.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

jtkyber said:


> How is Whyte's dropper post compared to say the Brand X Ascend XL, since they are around the same price? Is the lever flimsy? Is the post sticky?


No experience with their branded dropper. My Whyte came with a RockShox Reverb. It works fine as long as you don't use it to mount your bike on a repair stand. It does not like to be pulled up on (easy to fix though).

I second the comment regarding the Revelation. Good bang for your buck$, considering it has 35mm stanchions. Starting in 2018, the Revelation is basically a Pike with a different damper. And yes, the Pike damper can be easily installed on the Revelation. When my current stock damper wears out (if?), I'll replace it with the Pike version (Charger 2).

The only issue I ran into with the Revelation, was it came a little low on oil from the factory. Turns out this was not completely unheard of for the 2018 year model. Symptom was a little stiction after resting for a while. Make sure you have the correct (updated) manual for the newer Revelation so you have the correct info regarding oil type and level. If yours sticks, just add a couple mm (measuring depth of oil from the top). My guess is RockShox addressed it though for 2019.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

I don't have any experience with either bike or brand, but I can tell you that you might want to factor in upgrades if you go with the Santa Cruz. I have a bike that came with the SRAM Level brakes and a Recon RL fork, and I replaced both within the first year. The Level brakes were just bad all around, and the Recon RL fork was very harsh for me with the sag set for my weight. Looking at the the specs online, everything about the Whyte is better, and it's also lighter even with a dropper post. With the components spec'd on the Whyte, you're not paying much for the frame anyways. If it were me, I'd go with the Whyte


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

Battery said:


> The Revelation fork is awesome! They beefed up the stanchions on it over the previous model. Also, you can't go wrong with an NX Eagle drivetrain! The NX Eagle is a bit heavy when compared to the GX Eagle and above, but it's built to last.
> 
> If you ever decide to upgrade the wheels on the Whyte, make sure you buy a set with standard freehubs. The NX Eagle was designed for standard hubs. The GX Eagle and above were designed for SRAM XD freehubs.
> 
> Plus the SRAM Guide brakes are a notch better than the SRAM Levels.


I am now considering the 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon R+ since I'll have more money to spend than I thought. I test rode it and loved it but I am afraid that it won't be as good on downhill/rough sections than the Whyte with the steep(ish) head angle. Also, will the Whyte be worse on climbs due to the slack HA and longer chainstay length or will the lighter weight make up for that?


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

jtkyber said:


> I am now considering the 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon R+ since I'll have more money to spend than I thought. I test rode it and loved it but I am afraid that it won't be as good on downhill/rough sections than the Whyte with the steep(ish) head angle. Also, will the Whyte be worse on climbs due to the slack HA and longer chainstay length or will the lighter weight make up for that?


I would choose the Whyte for the more progressive geometry. IMO the reach, wheelbase and, HTA will help on the down hills and the steeper STA will help climbing. I have a HT that has 416-431mm chain stays and I always ride with the at the longest setting because I slip less climbing when it slippery.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

My Sentinel has a 64-degree HTA and a 77-degree STA. Many reviews have said that the Sentinel can't climb, but I disagree. While the aluminum frame is a behemoth, I did a 1600ft climb to a summit and it handled it well. For a 29er, it can't turn for crap on tight switchbacks, but then again, neither can I! The slacked headtube does inspire confidence when descending but don't let it make you overconfident.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I'd choose the Whyte hands down. More progressive frame geometry, better fork, brakes, drivetrain -- all around much better and worth far more than the $100 price difference.
=sParty


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> I'd choose the Whyte hands down. More progressive frame geometry, better fork, brakes, drivetrain -- all around much better and worth far more than the $100 price difference.
> =sParty


Ok, thanks but what about compared to the 2019 Chameleon R+ version (Ignoring the price difference)? Fox fork, same drivetrain, and dropper post. I'm guessing the chameleon is more geared towards bikepacking, climbing and local trail riding while the 905 is geared towards more rough and steep terrain? Also, I heard that the Whyte runs kinda big. Is that true?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

jtkyber said:


> Ok, thanks but what about compared to the 2019 Chameleon R+ version (Ignoring the price difference)? Fox fork, same drivetrain, and dropper post. I'm guessing the chameleon is more geared towards bikepacking, climbing and local trail riding while the 905 is geared towards more rough and steep terrain? Also, I heard that the Whyte runs kinda big. Is that true?


I don't know about the Whyte's sizing. As for the rest, more or less. My guess is you'll be happy with either bike so you should get the one you like best.
=sParty


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I researched hardtails for quite a while, but ultimately went a different direction (found a deal on something else, what can I say).

I think ultimately, the Whyte is very different from the Santa Cruz. The Whyte has a HTA almost 3 degrees slacker, and has a STA that is almost 2 degrees steeper. So I'd imagine that it should be better on the steep and rough trails. On mellower stuff, I'd imagine that the Chameleon would feel a bit more lively, and likely would be better on the bikepacking front (a more traditional pedaling position on the flatter trails).

The reach on the Whyte is larger for the same size, which is probably what people are meaning when they say it runs large. However, because the STA is steeper, it has to be to have the same handlebar to seat distance (same feel while pedaling) as a bike with a slacker STA.

And personally, even though you say to ignoring pricing, I'd still be considering it. The Whyte is a better deal (for the same spec, etc), so I'd go with that one (Or the NukeProof Scout Comp, which is super similar in spec/geo to the Whyte).

Good luck making the decision .


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

jtkyber said:


> Thank you! I'm really glad to hear that the Whyte's frame is good as well and not just its components. How is Whyte's dropper post compared to say the Brand X Ascend XL, since they are around the same price? Is the lever flimsy? Is the post sticky?


I'm under the impression that Whyte's own dropper seapost is just a rebranded Brand-X (which is a Tranz-X). The Ascend XL differs from the plain Ascend in extension (170mm) and the fact that the air pressure is adjustable. I believe Whyte's dropper is the plain Ascend (100-150mm, fixed air pressure). It comes with the old trigger though, which has been reported as flimsy, but functional.

I purchased a Brand-X Ascend 150mm in January for my own, older 905 and so far it works flawlessly. It came with the updated trigger though.

As for sizing, I'd trust the company's size chart. I doubted that a 618mm top tube and 432mm reach would work for me (2016 size small) but it does. 2019 geometry looks great, my only reservation would be the extremely low bb height which would prohibit running smaller tyres if I'm not fond of the plus thing. Also bear in mind that the 905 is not convertible to 29" wheels.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

I actually ended up settling on the RSD Middle Child! It combines everything I liked from the SC Chameleon and the Whyte 905. It's about $150 more than the Chameleon R+ with a discount. 

-https://rsdbikes.com/portfolio/middlechild-cr-mo/
-Main Features:
*Chromoly Steel
*HT angle: 64.5 degrees
*ST angle: 74 degrees
*Chainstay: 415 - 430
*BB height: 320
*Reach: 465 (large)
*Wheelbase: 1203 (large)
*Fork: Rockshox Pike RC 140mm
*Cockpit: Raceface Turbine
*Drivetrain: Shimano XT
*Brakes: Shimano XT
*Dropper: KS Lev Integra
*Tires: Maxxis Minion DHF & DHR II sC Maxx Terra EXO TR (27.5" x 2.8")
*Complete Bike Weight: 30.5 lbs


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

And it comes with wide enough rim wheels.
Sun Ringle Duroc 27.5x50mm Front 15x110mm Boost 12x148mm rear.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

I own a Whyte (bought a 2018 gravel bike they no longer sell in the US). Customer service was real solid and took me just as much time to unpack the bike as putting it together. And I am no mechanic whatsoever. 

I believe the head angles on these two bikes you are comparing are significantly different.

Whyte charges a $75 shipping fee if the bike is under $2K. But, they set up tubeless for free!


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