# Single Speed w/ two different gears



## jdoglike (Sep 12, 2003)

So I would like to convert my mountain bike to single speed, but the problem is I also use it for commuting. So is there a way where I could switch out the rear cog between two sizes. What would be the easiest way to do this. Thanks.


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## norm (Feb 20, 2005)

I use two chainrings in the front and two cogs in the back. 40 tooth big ring/34 middle ring and 16/20 cogs. As long as the teeth add up then in theory it should work.

ex.36/32 front.....15/19 rear.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

oh boy... youve started it now...

prepare to be flamed by the "purists" as a heretic. 

when my fixed monkey was pulling both commuting and trail duty i used a surly dingle cog with a 4 tooth difference. but that was easy to swap with no rear brake, an xt qr, and track ends.


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## woody45 (Mar 26, 2007)

For my single speed I initially had a heavily cut down rear derailleur which meant I could switch between a 28 and 38 front ring and still have the chain tensioned. After deciding I only need the 38 I shortened the chain and cut the derailleur more. With a tensioner it's an easy job.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

All single speeds have two gears. Seated and standing.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

monogod said:


> oh boy... youve started it now...
> 
> prepare to be flamed by the "purists" as a heretic.
> 
> ...


He's not a heretic. But if he rides a bike with variable gearing, he's not a singlespeeder, either.

FWIW I'm not a purist... more like a realist.

--Sparty


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## cazloco (Apr 6, 2005)

monogod said:


> oh boy... youve started it now...
> 
> prepare to be flamed by the "purists" as a heretic.


Nor am I a purist, but I can count.

Caz


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

norm said:


> I use two chainrings in the front and two cogs in the back. 40 tooth big ring/34 middle ring and 16/20 cogs. As long as the teeth add up then in theory it should work.
> 
> ex.36/32 front.....15/19 rear.


Now I'm confused. 40 + 16 = 56, but 34 + 20 = 54. So in theory your set up shouldn't work.
:???:


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## pisiket (Sep 19, 2006)

crux said:



> All single speeds have two gears. Seated and standing.


Third: Walking

Ali


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## thesergeant (Jun 1, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> He's not a heretic. But if he rides a bike with variable gearing, he's not a singlespeeder, either.
> 
> FWIW I'm not a purist... more like a realist.
> 
> --Sparty


are bikes with flip flop hubs not considered single speeds then? the only difference I'm seeing here is that you don't have to pull you're wheel to change your gear. There's still no shifting on the fly and it's not like there's a bail out gear. You have your standard gearing for the mountains (just like everybody else) and higher gearing for the road.

riding 2:1 on flat pavement, around town is PAINFUL! That's why I went to WI double / double setup and couldn't be happier. It's still a single speed.


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

*Seven Bonus Gears*



jdoglike said:


> So I would like to convert my mountain bike to single speed, but the problem is I also use it for commuting. So is there a way where I could switch out the rear cog between two sizes. What would be the easiest way to do this. Thanks.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

*We just went through this*



thesergeant said:


> ... It's still a single speed.


Here. And here.

Before anyone gets defensive, please read the captioned threads carefully and understand that no one is saying that dinglespeeds, flip flops or other non-derailleured multi-speeds aren't perfectly viable steeds. Everybody thinks they're awesome. Everybody really does.

They're just not singlespeeds.

A singlespeed is a singlespeed, as in total dedication to one gear and one gear only. If gear ratios can be changed during the course of a ride, even if the process of changing gears is slow, awkward or troublesome, it's still a multi-speed and this makes it something other than a singlespeed. In fact this simply makes it a multi-speed bike on which gear changes are slow, awkward or troublesome.

Technically a multi-speed bike is not a singlespeed. This in no way means there's anything wrong with multi-speed bikes. For the record I've got some multi-speed bikes, too. I love to ride them but I never confuse them with my singlespeed bikes.

--Sparty


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Here. And here.
> 
> Before anyone gets defensive, please read the captioned threads carefully and understand that no one is saying that dinglespeeds, flip flops or other non-derailleured multi-speeds aren't perfectly viable steeds. Everybody thinks they're awesome. Everybody really does.
> 
> ...


Elitist douchebag.


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## cazloco (Apr 6, 2005)

tvrbob86 said:


> Elitist douchebag.


You forgot "purist", name-caller.

I remember when I was 8 and I couldn't figure out why someone would make me feel insecure and I'd call them a name like, "dootie-face" or "jerk". It wasn't until highschool when I took foreign languages like French and Latin that I could start callling people names like elitist douchebag. You on the other hand seem to know big words at such an early age. I'm proud of you. So now all you have to do is work on your math skills and you'll realize that "single" means 1.

Remember: Stay in school. (your mom must be so proud of you.)

Caz

P.S. It wasn't until later in life that I realized that people didn't make me feel insecure, I made myself feel insecure. I bet Sparty didn't make you feel insecure. You should apologize to him and you should also consider seeking help for your anger/insecurity issues. Have a nice day


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## thesergeant (Jun 1, 2006)

I run the White Industries double double setup. I've been riding "true" singlespeeds for 5+ years. On the mountain I loved everything about my SS, but the problem was - I couldn't ride it to the trailhead or even around town for that matter. The gearing was simply too low. I ended up having to get another bike (IRO track bike) for the road and kept the SS for the mountain only.

I love SS' for what they are: simple, functional, light, reliable, etc. I with the double double setup I get all the benefits of a SS (literally all of them), with the versatility (to some degree) of a geared bike. Rather than having two bikes (one street & one road) I can have one.

The double double setup turned my SS into my #1 preferred ride. So much so that I decided to sell my Eimei. Sold the Eimei for $2,000 and spent $160 for Double Chainring and 16/18t Eno freewheel.

Dual setups like the double double or any other homemade version are far superior in my opinion. SSer's who whine about our bikes not being "true" SS' are just jealous.


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

cazloco said:


> You forgot "purist", name-caller.
> 
> I remember when I was 8 and I couldn't figure out why someone would make me feel insecure and I'd call them a name like, "dootie-face" or "jerk". It wasn't until highschool when I took foreign languages like French and Latin that I could start callling people names like elitist douchebag. You on the other hand seem to know big words at such an early age. I'm proud of you. So now all you have to do is work on your math skills and you'll realize that "single" means 1.
> 
> ...


Purist duty-faced jerk.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

thesergeant said:


> ... SSer's who whine about our bikes not being "true" SS' are just jealous.


Might be jealous of your sweet bike, regardless of how many gears it has, but nothing beyond that.

You wouldn't date a man who called himself a woman, would you? (Uh... not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Nobody's putting anybody's bike down. Just protecting the integrity of the lexicon. That's all. This is in everyone's best interest, including yours. Think about it.

Nice bike!

--Sparty


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## Coach417 (Jul 13, 2007)

*What if?*

...you carry a spare cog in your pack? In theory, if it is the same size, it shouldn't count. However, if it is a different size....are you now a multi speed? What if you walk in to a cafe for your latte', are you far enough away for your bike to return to SS status? Hmmmmm, much to ponder. I am sure the SS Gods will enlighten us on these perplexing matters. By the way, I ride a bike.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

since every reply is OT, lets just put it this way:

SS is either a male or a female.

2x2, double-double whatever is hermaphrodite.

anything more than 2 cogs/chainrings or any weird combo is beyond explanation.


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

Not that this fire needs more fuel, but I enjoyed Keith Bontrager's musing on this subject:
http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/363/v/4/sp/360699206562520221222


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## thesergeant (Jun 1, 2006)

^^^ haha, "jihad members"


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

tvrbob86 said:


> Purist duty-faced jerk.


Sometimes irony is hard to get on an online forum, especially when it's contained in a two or three word reply. Can be hard to tell if the writer is being funny or being a genuine smart a$$. Anyway I enjoy irony, even if it slides by me once in a while so I have to go back to pick it up. I wasn't sure if you were being ironic or not, but the possibility crossed my mind.

Anyway what I wish some folks understood about the singlespeed label thing is that it doesn't have anything to do with their bike. The issue is not personal at all. Their bike may be the most awesome hand-built beauty on the planet -- that's great but calling it an F-14 jet would be wrong. It's not an F-14 jet. That doesn't diminish the bike's worthiness one bit, but for some reason some folks choose to get defensive if they call their bike an F-14 but another person tells them it's not really an F-14.

Same with calling a bike a singlespeed when it's really a multi-speed. Why do people take offense? Their defensiveness of the singlespeed label implies that they consider multi-speed bikes unworthy. Multi-speed bikes are not unworthy. They're just not singlespeeds.

It's words and labels, not bikes. It's about accuracy in linguistics.

What we as a society call things is important because if we don't remain true to accuracy in language, the lexicon changes. I wouldn't call a bat a bird even though both can fly. If I do that, the word bird loses it's traditionally accepted meaning. If enough people do it, the word bird comes to mean something different than it used to, it becomes less accurate and specific so we must then find a new way to describe the difference between a bat and a bird. Why not keep the meanings separate from the beginning since we already have functional definitions.

So this singlespeed label issue has nothing to do with the worthiness of anyone's bike, it has to do with the integrity of the English language. That is the crux. Language, not bikes.

Now, another dose of irony, please.

--Sparty


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

thesergeant: *Dual setups like the double double or any other homemade version are far superior in my opinion. SSer's who whine about our bikes not being "true" SS' are just jealous.*

How can your bike be a "true SS" and at the same time superior to an SS.


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

*Lick this, cunning linguist.*



Sparticus said:


> Sometimes irony is hard to get on an online forum, especially when it's contained in a two or three word reply. Can be hard to tell if the writer is being funny or being a genuine smart a$$. Anyway I enjoy irony, even if it slides by me once in a while so I have to go back to pick it up. I wasn't sure if you were being ironic or not, but the possibility crossed my mind.
> 
> Anyway what I wish some folks understood about the singlespeed label thing is that it doesn't have anything to do with their bike. The issue is not personal at all. Their bike may be the most awesome hand-built beauty on the planet -- that's great but calling it an F-14 jet would be wrong. It's not an F-14 jet. That doesn't diminish the bike's worthiness one bit, but for some reason some folks choose to get defensive if they call their bike an F-14 but another person tells them it's not really an F-14.
> 
> ...




Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## bworks (Apr 15, 2004)

I have an extra set of wheels for my singlespeed with a commuter tire on them and a smaller cog. When I want to ride trails, I just switch over to my knobby wheels, adjust the chain tension and go. I find this to be a pretty good option, that allows me to change over from commuter to mtb in about 5 minutes.


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

bworks said:


> I have an extra set of wheels for my singlespeed with a commuter tire on them and a smaller cog. When I want to ride trails, I just switch over to my knobby wheels, adjust the chain tension and go. I find this to be a pretty good option, that allows me to change over from commuter to mtb in about 5 minutes.


And by the logic expressed in this thread, you're not riding a singlespeed. Don't ask me how or why: I don't get it, either. Must be magic.

--MW


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## bworks (Apr 15, 2004)

MW said:


> And by the logic expressed in this thread, you're not riding a singlespeed. Don't ask me how or why: I don't get it, either. Must be magic.
> 
> --MW


I don't care. As a commuter with one gear it gets me from A to B... as a trail bike with one gear it is a hell of a lot of fun. Call it what they may...


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

bworks said:


> I don't care. As a commuter with one gear it gets me from A to B... as a trail bike with one gear it is a hell of a lot of fun. Call it what they may...


don't worry, IT IS a single speed. unless you carry your spare wheels around and change it whenever the trails change.  no logic required, just common sense.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

fishcreek said:


> don't worry, IT IS a single speed. unless you carry your spare wheels around and change it whenever the trails change.  no logic required, just common sense.


Bingo.


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

fishcreek said:


> no logic required, just common sense.


I was mostly poking fun at this:



Sparticus said:


> A singlespeed is a singlespeed, as in total dedication to one gear and one gear only. If gear ratios can be changed during the course of a ride, even if the process of changing gears is slow, awkward or troublesome, it's still a multi-speed and this makes it something other than a singlespeed.


I'm sorry, but I think that's pretty ridiculous.

It's not a singlespeed if you have the ability to change gears while on a ride? Sure, that makes sense enough.

It's not a singlespeed if you have the ability to change gears while on a ride, even if the _ability_ to change gears means stopping your ride, busting out a bunch of tools that you're not bloody likely to carry on said ride, and wrenching for 15-30mins before resuming the ride? Um, no . . . that doesn't make much sense, as far as definitions go.

I mean, under this definition, I could go for a ride on my "true" singlespeed, stop at a bike shop along the way, pay them to swap my rear cog before continuing my ride (leaving the old cog behind, of course), and thereby "void" the singlespeed-ness of my bike? Please.

I'm clearly not one of the uber-cool singlespeed kids, but I always thought singlespeeding was about the mentality (and reality) of riding one gear . . . not nit-picking "what ifs" about bike setup. I see college kids on beaters around here that have cassettes and triples, but they've ditched the derailleurs, picked a chainring/cog combo that works for them, and will probably -never- touch the drivetrain again for the life of their bike. If that's not singlespeeding, I dunno what is.

--MW


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

lets pretend and make ourself believe that all the dingles and cog changers are single speeds and try to enter an SS race, the result.. DQ.

start asking yourself again "why?"

because.


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

fishcreek said:


> because.


Because they're not cool enough?


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

fishcreek said:


> lets pretend and make ourself believe that all the dingles and cog changers are single speeds and try to enter an SS race, the result.. DQ.


Well, if ya need a rule book or a race organizer to tell you what's what . . . carry on. 

In my little world, I'll continue thinking of "singlespeed' as an ethos (plus the inability to easily change gears on the fly). :thumbsup:

--MW


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## norm (Feb 20, 2005)

fishcreek said:


> lets pretend and make ourself believe that all the dingles and cog changers are single speeds and try to enter an SS race, the result.. DQ.
> start asking yourself again "why?"
> because.


Read the first posting......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I would like to convert my mountain bike to single speed, but the problem is I *also use it for commuting*. So is there a way where I could switch out the rear cog between two sizes. What would be the easiest way to do this. Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

you could just commute with the same gear you ride trails in....


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## disgustipated (Apr 29, 2006)

sean salach said:


> you could just commute with the same gear you ride trails in....


or ride trails with the same gear that you commute with :madman:

also....


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## jdoglike (Sep 12, 2003)

Ok thanks for all the responses i guess. Not a lot was really accomplished by this thread. I was never planing on changing gears on the fly or even have two gears on the bike. Also my guess is that many of you that are flamming me because i want a different gear for commuting than mountain biking, have one bike for each purpose, therefore having two different gearings. I just want to use the same bike for both purposes and don't want to spin out while I'm commuting at like 15mph.


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## skogan (Jan 12, 2004)

An actual answer to the original posters question... I have a very simple setup that works well for me. I just use a chain tensioner and run two cogs in the back, a 16 and a 19 tooth. I split the difference for chainline and have a single spacer between. All I have to do is loosen the pulley on the tensioner and shift the gear. $30 for the tensioner and a couple free 6spd cogsets from the lbs to poach gears and spacers from, doesn't get much cheaper than that.


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## Dirdir (Jan 23, 2004)

*Ah, the Interssting Question - 24 Hour Type Events????*



MW said:


> Well, if ya need a rule book or a race organizer to tell you what's what . . . carry on.
> 
> In my little world, I'll continue thinking of "singlespeed' as an ethos (plus the inability to easily change gears on the fly). :thumbsup:
> 
> --MW


The interesting question is whether it is single speed if you change gears in a 24h hour race (or similar race) that permits gear changes after each lap. As far as I am concerned, this is not single speed. However, many disagree, especially the race winners.


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

Threads wander; people get distracted. Horse flogged. 



jdoglike said:


> So I would like to convert my mountain bike to single speed, but the problem is I also use it for commuting. So is there a way where I could switch out the rear cog between two sizes. What would be the easiest way to do this. Thanks.


Assuming this is a typical vertical-dropout frame, and assuming you're going to run the same wheelset for both commuting and for the trails. . .

You'll need something to tension the chain. Search on "tensioner" in this forum and you'll probably get lots of hits. A lot of people use the Surly unit, many seem to like the Yess tensioners . . . you could even use your old rear derailleur to keep tension.

To get your two ratios, you have lots of options. Three easier routes (plus one less easy):

1) Do what *skogan* said and install two different cogs in the rear. Separate them with a cassette spacer as needed, and use additional spacers to get the chainline dialed so your chainring lines up in the middle of the two cogs. Hiccup one: your tensioner must be able to take up enough slack for both ratios. If you run 16t and 19t cogs, it'll probably work . . . if you run 14t and 22t, maybe not. Hiccup two: you may need to realign the tensioner pulley when you switch ratios.

2) Same ideas as above, but use two different chainrings up front and a single cog out back. Hiccup one: still applies here. Hiccup two: not a problem, since the rear cog stays the same.

3) Follow *norm*'s suggestion: run two cogs out back and two chainrings up front (set the chainline independently for each cog/chainring pair), and try to keep the total tooth count of each ratio as close as possible. If you ran 32/16 for the trails, for example, you could do 34/14 for commuting and the tensioner will be taking up the same amount of slack in both scenarios. You should be okay if you vary the total tooth-count a little, since the tensioner may take up a 3-4t difference without much trouble . . . but as with the other options, the tensioner may not be able to cope if you vary the tooth count too much. This route may also require realigning the tensioner pulley when you change ratios.

4) If you've got some patience, you could go looking for a "magic gear" for your frame (search on it in this forum) . . . basically, a chainring / cog combo that delivers the correct tension -without- requiring a tensioner. If you find a magic gear that works, you can try the same trick mentioned above and select a second ratio that uses the exact same total number of teeth . . . and (in theory) get two chainring/cog combos that both provide the correct tension. This has the disadvantages of a) potentially limiting the ratios you can choose from, and b) being really frustrating . . . but if you get it, you could end up with your two ratios, no tensioner, and no need to fiddle with anything when you swap between gears.

--MW


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

Since MW has made a valiant effort to get this thread back on topic, I'll play along. Under option 4, finding the "magic gear", you might need to use a half-link to get the tension right. I got one from my LBS, only cost a couple bucks. Oh, and don't attach a Power link to a half link, they don't play nice together. Put a couple links between them.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

fishcreek said:


> lets pretend and make ourself believe that all the dingles and cog changers are single speeds and try to enter an SS race, the result.. DQ.


um... nope. you wont get disqualified in an ss race for running a dos eno, a dingle cog, or a flip flop rear wheel with different sized fw's. :nono:



Rufudufus said:


> don't attach a Power link to a half link, they don't play nice together.


fwiw, ive never had a problem the scores of times ive used a powerlink with a half link.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jdoglike said:


> my guess is that many of you that are flamming me because i want a different gear for commuting than mountain biking, have one bike for each purpose, therefore having two different gearings. I just want to use the same bike for both purposes and don't want to spin out while I'm commuting at like 15mph.


screw 'em. its your bike, set it up how you want.

i set up this bike with a surly dingle cog and the 4 tooth spread was just enough to make zipping around town at 15-18mph (on fat tyres, no less) very comfortable, while being able to change ratios at the trail head to have a great off road gear as well.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

jdoglike said:


> Ok thanks for all the responses i guess. Not a lot was really accomplished by this thread. I was never planing on changing gears on the fly or even have two gears on the bike. Also my guess is that many of you that are flamming me because i want a different gear for commuting than mountain biking, have one bike for each purpose, therefore having two different gearings. I just want to use the same bike for both purposes and don't want to spin out while I'm commuting at like 15mph.


I don't think anybody was flaming you. I wasn't. Here's your original post:


jdoglike said:


> So I would like to convert my mountain bike to single speed, but the problem is I also use it for commuting. So is there a way where I could switch out the rear cog between two sizes. What would be the easiest way to do this. Thanks.


Wherein you said you wanted to convert your mountain bike to singlespeed but went on to ask if there was a way to switch the rear cog between two sizes. This, combined with the thread title, *"Single Speed w/ two different gears" *led me (as well as others) to clarify what a singlespeed is and is not. Nobody was flaming you, IMO.

By all means, build whatever bike you want. But if you build a wheelbarrow, don't call it an F-14, or vice versa.

--Sparty


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## twest820 (Mar 16, 2007)

MW said:


> Threads wander; people get distracted. Horse flogged.


Speaking of which, why is the guy flogging the horse wearing a tie?


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

twest820 said:


> Speaking of which, why is the guy flogging the horse wearing a tie?


watch "office space"...


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> This, combined with the thread title, *"Single Speed w/ two different gears" *led me (as well as others) to clarify what a singlespeed is and is not. Nobody was flaming you, IMO.
> 
> By all means, build whatever bike you want. But if you build a wheelbarrow, don't call it an F-14, or vice versa.
> 
> --Sparty


Sparty,
Just friendly discussion, but I think your crusade to preserve the "lexicon" is a passive-aggressive way of saying you don't like it when people call anything other than your definition of a single-speed, a single-speed. Sheesh, not too long ago single-speeds were just "bikes" and *everything* else in my neighborhood was called a 10 speed (regardless the actual number of gears on the cartridge).

If I may, what makes you an authority to clarify what the single speed movement (I hate that word, but I just got off work and my mind is jell-o) is or isn't? What if, like MW suggests, that single-speed is more an ethos than an actual physical state of being? By your logic, it would seem that if the bike has *any* ability at all to have the gear ratio altered then it ceases to be a true single-speed.

For me, if I can't physically change the gears on the bike while I'm riding it; then to me, it's a single-speed. Can't say that I could be convinced otherwise.

Face it, words morph over time and their meaning is preserved in the generation / population that coined the phrase while they may change completely for new generation or geographic location. Examples:
Funky
Bad / Rad
Sick
Dude
etc...

Nothing says you can't build "the F-14 of wheel-barrows...." I think double cog single-speeds are the F-14s of single-speeds.

R/
Dustin


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## dumbaSS (Sep 8, 2005)

Trying to avoid this because it's obvious neither side is going to convince the other they're wrong.

But my singlespeed rides start and end at the back of my house. There is some road to get to and from the trails. I leave in one gear ratio and come back in the same gear ratio without switching gears in between. I don't chop my ride into three pieces for convenience.

I don't care if you have to get off your bike or not, switching gears mid-ride is switching gears.

And as we keep repeating... please build what you want, I can understand the need for multiple gears.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Konish said:


> Sparty,
> Just friendly discussion, but ... what makes you an authority to clarify what the single speed movement ...
> 
> R/
> Dustin


Good point, Dustin. My opinion is my opinion and that's all I'm advancing here -- guess I should have said that clearly but I felt this to be an intrinsic aspect of public forums. I admit I'm obsessive about this subject but honestly, with me it has far more to do with accuracy in communication than it does with whichever bicycle a particular person chooses to ride.

If people want the word singlespeed to mean a bike that has more than one gear, then this is what the people will get. This is well and good. Words should mean what society wants them to mean. Words should morph as society demands. Meanwhile, with regard to the word "singlespeed," I will resist this insidious change at every opportunity. That's my problem.

I admit that singlespeeding may be too broad a concept to be narrowed down to only what kind of bike a person rides. Personally, I got into singlespeeding by trying to leave my geared bike in one gear for the duration of a ride. That didn't work but at least I tried it and at least it convinced me that I could make the leap to riding a real singlespeed. Others may be stronger willed than I am. That is, they may be able to have optional gears at their disposal without resorting to actually using them during the course of one ride.

For what it's worth, I have completed the 100 mile Cascade Cream Puff on a singlespeed -- this was the most brutal thing I've ever done on a bicycle. My gear ratio was 34x20 but by mile 65 I was wishing it was a 20x34 and if I'd had a magic wand, it would have become that. The Cream Puff includes over 16,000' gain... I walked a couple miles... was I not a singlespeeder? (Rhetorical question.)

Perhaps we can define "singlespeeding" by the ethos or intent rather than the machine underneath someone. But just as we can't look into anyone's eyes and tell whether they are a terrorist or a patriot, well, that's a bit of an extreme comparison but you know what I mean. Therefore I will continue to resist the degradation of the language and the definition of the sport by continuing to judge the machine's gear(s). That said, it's not my place. Individuals know whether they are singlespeeders or not and I'm not disputing this. I'm defining the machine, that's all. I'm defining a singlespeeed, not singlespeeding.

No authoritarian offense intended on my part. My opinion is only that -- just one of billions. But I hold it dear and will put my weight behind it until someone convinces me that it is invalid.

Thanks for engaging the discussion. Different perspectives can be refreshing... yours is. Sorry if I came across as demanding that people kneel. I suppose I do that sometimes. Not my intent. Guess I enjoy spirited discussions.

--Sparty


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

monogod said:


> fwiw, ive never had a problem the scores of times ive used a powerlink with a half link.


The half-link I got was just a nanometer or two thicker than the rest of my chain. Just enough that the powerlink couldn't close properly.


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## ss34x18 (Sep 4, 2004)

crux said:


> All single speeds have two gears. Seated and standing.


HAHAHA


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Rufudufus said:


> The half-link I got was just a nanometer or two thicker than the rest of my chain. Just enough that the powerlink couldn't close properly.


try a 3/32 half link with a sram 8sp chain next time.

works like a charm... :thumbsup:


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## DG5 (Apr 30, 2007)

Holy F%$%*%g Sh*t !! If It Has More Than One Gear It Is Not A "singlespeed !!!!! How Is That Unclear To Anyone???


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## dropspace (Jan 1, 2007)

some of you people need to go ride your bike more, however many speeds it is.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

DG5 said:


> Holy F%$%*%g Sh*t !! If It Has More Than One Gear It Is Not A "singlespeed !!!!! How Is That Unclear To Anyone???


What do you mean?


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I solved the commute problem by sticking a S-A 3 spd hub on the commuter bike, but then I don't call it a singlespeed except when it's got the single speed wheel in it.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

*Affluence, Biyatch!*








​
MW, no need to justify your reasoning or defense with so many paragraphs.

First, I'm an official *"elitist 'purist duty-faced' douche bag." * I would hate to not be one.

Single speed is dedication to one gear ratio.

To get out of saddle and pump up an incline right past gear changing slobs in saddle - that's single speed!

_Silver single speed_ if toking in a marley blunt or gassing a beer in one hand while pumping up incline, and wickedly sneering at said slobs changing gears in saddle.

_Gold single speed_ is pumping up incline, blunt in left hand, beer in right hand, sitting upright in saddle.

And those multi-geared slobs are no less than you or I; they're my friends and sometimes I ride their geared bikes but it's not so fun, and certainly not single speed. Their money, their bike, their choice. They could also call their more than single speed bike a "single speed bike" but that would be as ridiculous as that ridiculous donkey dick sized blunt.

Remixed elitist douchebag artwork of "single speed" fixed gears, originally posted in the Serotta forums (the wannabe elitist douche bag forum pales in comparison to the MTBR community):


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Good point, Dustin. My opinion is my opinion and that's all I'm advancing here -- guess I should have said that clearly but I felt this to be an intrinsic aspect of public forums. I admit I'm obsessive about this subject but honestly, with me it has far more to do with accuracy in communication than it does with whichever bicycle a particular person chooses to ride.
> 
> If people want the word singlespeed to mean a bike that has more than one gear, then this is what the people will get. This is well and good. Words should mean what society wants them to mean. Words should morph as society demands. Meanwhile, with regard to the word "singlespeed," I will resist this insidious change at every opportunity. That's my problem.
> 
> ...


Sparty,
I think we're all saying the same thing more or less...nice to be on the same team. Also, thanks for the well crafted and thoughtful response. Even though this thread got WAY derailed, it's nice to engage in discussion that doesn't completely alienate people. I really respect your answer and position...

R/
Dustin


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

so if have two different singlespeeds, each with a different gear that i never change while riding. does that mean that i have singlespeeds, but am not a singlespeeder?


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## Toth (May 15, 2007)

I'm really confused now, maybe a good time for my first post.

Well, this definition is very clear, but if I follow it strictkly I believe it indicates that there are actually no singlespeed bikes at all...

I mean...if a bike is not a singlspeed if you _can_ change the gearing you would have to have your rear wheel and chainring fixed permanently to the bike, otherwise what's to stop me from taking either out and replacing it with a different one.

Having your rear wheel welded to your frame is probably a good idea form a pure singlespeed point of view anyway...this also makes it impossible to change to a bigger or smaller rear tire wich would affect your gear inches. Or should singlespeed be all about one gear ratio regardless of gear inches?


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

sean: *so if have two different singlespeeds, each with a different gear that i never change while riding. does that mean that i have singlespeeds, but am not a singlespeeder?*

Only if we catch you riding your singlespeed with a second singlespeed attached on you back.


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

Toth said:


> Having your rear wheel welded to your frame is probably a good idea form a pure singlespeed point of view anyway...this also makes it impossible to change to a bigger or smaller rear tire wich would affect your gear inches.


Yes, I think you've captured the vibe around here! Well said. :thumbsup: 

--MW


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Just remember SS isn't a religion...


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Here. And here.
> 
> Before anyone gets defensive, please read the captioned threads carefully and understand that no one is saying that dinglespeeds, flip flops or other non-derailleured multi-speeds aren't perfectly viable steeds. Everybody thinks they're awesome. Everybody really does.
> 
> ...


So, if I have an SS MTB with a 20T freewheel, and I take the disc rotor and caliper off, and bolt a 20T TomiCOG onto the disc side, make it a mullet with disc front and V-brake rear, do I have an SS? It is not multi-speed, since both cogs are the same ratio. I can choose fixed 20T or free 20T, but one speed. SS? Single multi-speed? Multi singlespeed? :devil:
_
edit_ I support your attitude about keeping the lexicon, or nomenclature clean. I am just one of those people who will play devil's advocate for the purpose of discussion. :devil:


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slocaus said:


> So, if I have an SS MTB with a 20T freewheel... :devil:


To me, it's about dedication to one gear for the duration of one ride. So personally I'd say yes, you're riding a singlespeed. Except for... well, is it a singlespeed or a fixie? Actually in my mind a fixie is a form of singlespeed because fixie is limited to a single gear ratio and that's how I define singlespeed. I guess a fixie is like a singlespeed with reverse.  Plus a CrAZy pilot. 

Fixed off-road riding... personally I'm not there yet. But I've got friends who do it and I have the utmost respect. A tip of the helmet to you. By the way, whenever I look a pictures in your posts it makes me want to come to California and ride with you in the hills around SLO.

--Sparty


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## PeanutButterBreath (Oct 7, 2005)

slocaus said:


> So, if I have an SS MTB with a 20T freewheel, and I take the disc rotor and caliper off, and bolt a 20T TomiCOG onto the disc side, make it a mullet with disc front and V-brake rear, do I have an SS? It is not multi-speed, since both cogs are the same ratio. I can choose fixed 20T or free 20T, but one speed. SS? Single multi-speed? Multi singlespeed? :devil:


If it has a single speed (N:20), it is a singlespeed. Not complicated.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

it's only a singlespeed if you pedal the same cadence, in the same gear at all times, and maintain the same speed while coasting as well. accelerating and deccelerating are strictly forbidden.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

sean salach said:


> it's only a singlespeed if you pedal the same cadence, in the same gear at all times, and maintain the same speed while coasting as well. accelerating and deccelerating are strictly forbidden.


you should say IMO if that's your definition of single speed.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> To me, it's about dedication to one gear for the duration of one ride. So personally I'd say yes, you're riding a singlespeed. Except for... well, is it a singlespeed or a fixie? Actually in my mind a fixie is a form of singlespeed because fixie is limited to a single gear ratio and that's how I define singlespeed. I guess a fixie is like a singlespeed with reverse.  Plus a CrAZy pilot.
> 
> Fixed off-road riding... personally I'm not there yet. But I've got friends who do it and I have the utmost respect. A tip of the helmet to you. By the way, whenever I look a pictures in your posts it makes me want to come to California and ride with you in the hills around SLO.
> 
> --Sparty


I was being a :devil:; I knew the answer. I kept the FW when I went fixed as a bailout, but my determination kept me from using it.

Thanks for the kind words, I am not hardcore on the fixed gear, but I do think it has some real benefits for biking skills, just liked fixed road gave me more skill on road and mountain, so taking if offroad was the next step. I like to tell people to try it, and the hardest part of fixed MTB is the muscle between your ears. 

And come to SLO town and ride, you are welcome any time. We are fortunate to have so much so close.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

fishcreek said:


> you should say IMO if that's your definition of single speed.


He is being a :devil:, like I was being a :devil:.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

*Hey everybody....*

How about just helping the guy out and not being complete d!cks all the time?

OP: check this link: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=399610


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## PeanutButterBreath (Oct 7, 2005)

f3rg said:


> *Hey everybody....*
> 
> How about just helping the guy out and not being complete d!cks all the time?
> 
> OP: check this link: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=399610


Nice "singlespeed". 

Also looks like a good way to "switch out the rear cog between two sizes" per OPs original request. Note to self -- stop being a d!ck all the time and start posting completely unhelpful advice.


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## drzrm (Apr 1, 2007)

*How dare you sir..!!*

I'm gonna go tell the guys at the fixed gear forum that you called a fixie a singlespeed...oh the laughs we'll have. (just kidding...sarcasm you know) I seriously can't believe this conversation is still going on...Sparticus, you should respectfully retire from it, you've made your point. And I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, you've all made your point...and for what it's worth, I actually agree. By a strict definition, these are clearly not singlespeeds. Just to up the anti, if I can position the brakes right, I may try to run a one tooth smaller track cog (16) on the other side of my flip flop hub with a 17-20 WI Dos on the other...tringlespeed, here I come.

Oh, and to the original poster...you can save some money on the WI Dos crankset by just installing two CRs either 2, 3 or 4 teeth apart on your triple crank, and match the difference in the back. Unless you've found some "Singlespeed Only" trails, none of this really matters. Someone drop me a PM when we kick off the dinglespeed forum.



Sparticus said:


> To me, it's about dedication to one gear for the duration of one ride. So personally I'd say yes, you're riding a singlespeed. Except for... well, is it a singlespeed or a fixie? Actually in my mind a fixie is a form of singlespeed because fixie is limited to a single gear ratio and that's how I define singlespeed. I guess a fixie is like a singlespeed with reverse.  Plus a CrAZy pilot.
> 
> Fixed off-road riding... personally I'm not there yet. But I've got friends who do it and I have the utmost respect. A tip of the helmet to you. By the way, whenever I look a pictures in your posts it makes me want to come to California and ride with you in the hills around SLO.
> 
> --Sparty


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